# Critique me thinking on rideshare as a career..



## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.

I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:

During my week out in the Raleigh Durham market I stayed out for about 12 hours per day. Probably taking breaks for about two hours out of those 12 hours. I averaged about $205 take home per day. I put about 300 miles average per day on my vehicle. This includes to and from home to the rideshare area. I achieved a five star rating and had no issues with passengers or anything like that. So I should be good to go.

Per my figures I spent about $145 in gas In the seven days I was out I took home $1440.

Will I drive that much every single week? Probably not. I feel like I would burn out. So my thoughts are on average I might take home $1100 a week. As a full-time Lyft driver. My plan would be to set aside one weeks pay or roughly $1000 each and every week towards the depreciation of my current vehicle and for the purchase of another one 2 to 3 years from now. Per my calculations I’m gonna put about 90,000 miles per year on my car and it would probably be all but dead in 2.5 years.

But even with setting aside $1000 per month for vehicle depreciation and for the purchase of my next vehicle that still leaves me a net income of around $3000 a month. Yes that’s a lot less than I make in trucking but I’m home every day. I can stop and incorporate rideshare driving into my daily life. I can stop and go to the gym and do a workout, I can stop and eat at a nice restaurant, I can go out on a Saturday and drive till midnight and then go to a bar have a few drinks and take an Uber home myself. None of this is possible as a over the road truck driver. So you have no idea how appealing this is to me! Lol… Much less the fact that I’ll be in my own bed every night at home.

I further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make incomI further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make income. I sell random things like art, and refinished furniture that I do from time to time. Doing rideshare would allow me to shut down and meet my potential buyers at their disposal and then continue back on with the rideshare anytime I wanted or it became necessary.

I hear all this negativity on this form about nobody making any money. But based on my figures above I’m going to net about $3000 a month. After my expenses.Plus probably $1500 a month doing my other income related activities that I can never do being out on the road as a truck driver.

What am I missing? I fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have four and I can pay cash for my next bI fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have for and I can pay cash for my next vehicle.

thoughts?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Download and drive for uber
Lyft is the bottom of the bottom of the barrel
You understand there are going to be costs
Now you need to learn how to extract the most money out of your market in the shortest time
I focus on the $ per hour that I'll make 
Good luck and welcome to u/p 😉


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Just make sure to factor in the unfortunate reality that many drivers get deactivated without cause based solely on false accusations by passengers. So work multiple apps if you're going to do this full-time. Other than that, I think you have a solid understanding of the financial realities at play here. Good luck and good fortune to you.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Rav4338 said:


> What am I missing?


What you're missing is that using a new vehicle for rideshare and planning to replace it with another new one in three years' time is a terrible, terrible business model and an obscene waste of money.

Every dollar saved in expense is worth precisely one extra dollar in profit. No more, no less. So you want to pare all expenses to the bone, including and especially depreciation. I bought an old Camry Hybrid for $3,900 and put an additional 130,000 miles on it over the three years of rideshare I did with it. It needed no repairs during that time. None. And when I was done with it, it was worth $2,500. That would have been $1,400 of deprecation. Compare and contrast with $30,000+ depreciation on using a new vehicle over that period. I added $28,600 to my profit for no extra effort or work on my part. Work smarter, _not_ harder.

Now, with used car prices as they currently are, you're not likely to get an old Camry Hybrid for $3,900. But you could get one for $6-7,000.

Whatever you do, don't use a new vehicle or any worth $10,000+ for rideshare. It's the equivalent of driving down the road and tossing a $20 bill out the window every couple of miles.


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> What you're missing is that using a new vehicle for rideshare and planning to replace it with another new one in three years' time is a terrible, terrible business model and an obscene waste of money.
> 
> Every dollar saved in expense is worth precisely one extra dollar in profit. No more, no less. So you want to pare all expenses to the bone, including and especially depreciation. I bought an old Camry Hybrid for $3,900 and put an additional 130,000 miles on it over the three years of rideshare I did with it. It needed no repairs during that time. None. And when I was done with it, it was worth $2,500. That would have been $1,400 of deprecation. Compare and contrast with $30,000+ depreciation on using a new vehicle over that period. I added $28,600 to my profit for no extra effort or work on my part. Work smarter, _not_ harder.
> 
> ...


OK I totally get everything you’re saying, but if you buy say a Toyota Corolla for around $7000 it’s probably gonna have 150,000 miles on it or more. My car has 2500 miles on it. So you’re only gonna get maybe a year or so out of the used Corolla. I should be able to get three years out of my brand new car. I can see where you definitely will come out ahead on the used car but not by as much as your figures might indicate. And the likelihood of no major repairs on a car with 150,000 miles on it are almost nil. I would venture to guess the average Toyota Corolla between 150,000 to 300,000 miles would probably need $5000 or more in heavy maintenance or repairs like maybe a rebuilt transmission etc.

So my $30,000 RAV4 if it lasts three years will run me approximately $10,500 per year. A Toyota Corolla that I paid $7000 for it has 150,000 miles on it might only last me a year. Maybe 18 months if I get really lucky.


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

I would factor in that it is highly likely Lyft will go bankrupt in 2023.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Rav4338 said:


> OK I totally get everything you’re saying, but if you buy say a Toyota Corolla for around $7000 it’s probably gonna have 150,000 miles on it or more. My car has 2500 miles on it. So you’re only gonna get maybe a year or so out of the used Corolla.


Avoid Corolla. Not the optimal rideshare vehicle at all. Get a Prius or Camry Hybrid.

But no, if you buy wisely you're likely to get _much_ more than one year out of a used car. My Camry Hybrid had 220,000 miles on it when I bought it. I kept it until 350,000 miles. There are several posters on here with Prius that have 300,000, 400,000 miles on them and are still running strong.


> I should be able to get three years out of my brand new car.


As above, you can also easily get three years out of the right used Toyota.


> I can see where you definitely will come out ahead on the used car but not by as much as your figures might indicate.


My figures are actual, historical figures - they indicate what actually happened. The car was purchased for $3,900 and after 130,000 additional miles it was worth $2,500.


> And the likelihood of no major repairs on a car with 150,000 miles on it are almost nil.


Yet that was precisely my experience.

Are you guaranteed to get a used vehicle that will be trouble-free? No. However, if you use a new car, it is _100% guaranteed_ that you _will_ lose tens of thousands of dollars in depreciation. The odds are thus heavily stacked in your favour with the right used car. Even if you buy a Toyota and it needs some repairs over the three years, you're not going to spend anywhere the $30,000 that you _will _lose with the new Rav4.


> I would venture to guess the average Toyota Corolla between 150,000 to 300,000 miles would probably need $5000 or more in heavy maintenance or repairs like maybe a rebuilt transmission etc.


Bingo. Transmission is the reason you avoid a Corolla. You go with a Prius or Camry Hybrid, which use a planetary gearset instead of a torque converter transmission. These are simply not known for failiure.


> So my $30,000 RAV4 if it lasts three years will run me approximately $10,500 per year. A Toyota Corolla that I paid $7000 for it has 150,000 miles on it might only last me a year. Maybe 18 months if I get really lucky.


Again with the Corolla, lol. Once more, avoid Corolla. Corolla bad, Prius / Camry Hybrid good.

Anyway, you asked what you were missing and I told you. This is the experience of an experienced driver who has run both brand new vehicles and old ones for rideshare. You're free, of course, to take it or disregard it.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Rav4338 said:


> OK I totally get everything you’re saying, but if you buy say a Toyota Corolla for around $7000 it’s probably gonna have 150,000 miles on it or more. My car has 2500 miles on it. So you’re only gonna get maybe a year or so out of the used Corolla. I should be able to get three years out of my brand new car. I can see where you definitely will come out ahead on the used car but not by as much as your figures might indicate. And the likelihood of no major repairs on a car with 150,000 miles on it are almost nil. I would venture to guess the average Toyota Corolla between 150,000 to 300,000 miles would probably need $5000 or more in heavy maintenance or repairs like maybe a rebuilt transmission etc.
> 
> So my $30,000 RAV4 if it lasts three years will run me approximately $10,500 per year. A Toyota Corolla that I paid $7000 for it has 150,000 miles on it might only last me a year. Maybe 18 months if I get really lucky.


There are basically 2 schools of thought on this
One is buy a used pile of crap and repair it or
Buy an almost new car and drive the crap out of it
Depending on your market you may opt to accept the downtime and repair costs instead of depreciation 
My market is very lucrative and I opted for depreciation instead of downtime
Then again I bought a 2 year old 2019 Corolla w 
38k for $15,000
It's been 2 years now, has 178k on it and I havent even had to do the brakes yet. 
The rav4 is probably too nice of a vehicle to be ruining w rideshare. I'm also getting 31.2 mpg


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Well imho if you are happy at 3k per month. i think the $200 week towards a newer car is smart..i did that when times were better, make sure your area is not in the best season now..how's summer..???? stress of all that trucking is too much stress . going to the gym and having a life is better..never forget everyday is your last, as deactation..sign up with uber they pay more. listen to the guy 25rides x7...i disagree with 1 thing. at the present rates. bring a 70k car for 10k not 30 like a prius..park the rav 4


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> There are basically 2 schools of thought on this
> One is buy a used pile of crap and repair it or
> Buy an almost new car and drive the crap out of it












Buy a cheap used car (Toyota or Honda) in good condition, maintain it well and run it cheaply at near-zero depreciation.


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## F30 LOLZ (Nov 10, 2021)

There are dealerships out there that do offer lifetime warranties on their vehicles. I traded a CTS Coupe for a Sahara 4dr back in April and the Ford dealership that sold it to me gave me a contract (included in the sale) and as long as I stay on top of scheduled maintenance, most critical parts on the Jeep would be covered under a $100 deductible. Drivetrain, fuel/coolant system, etc... While I stopped doing RS full time a few years ago, its great to have that piece of mind. Therefore, if you can find a car that you'll be happy with and get lucky with a nice warranty, you'll be good to go. For those keeping score at home, the dealership I'm talking about is Tom Wood and they're all over north Indianapolis with many brands.


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

F30 LOLZ said:


> There are dealerships out there that do offer lifetime warranties on their vehicles. I traded a CTS Coupe for a Sahara 4dr back in April and the Ford dealership that sold it to me gave me a contract (included in the sale) and as long as I stay on top of scheduled maintenance, most critical parts on the Jeep would be covered under a $100 deductible. Drivetrain, fuel/coolant system, etc... While I stopped doing RS full time a few years ago, its great to have that piece of mind. Therefore, if you can find a car that you'll be happy with and get lucky with a nice warranty, you'll be good to go. For those keeping score at home, the dealership I'm talking about is Tom Wood and they're all over north Indianapolis with many brands.


 My RAV4 came with a lifetime warranty as long as I’m the original owner on the powertrain. Now it’s somewhat limited. But anything goes wrong with the power train and that’s gonna be your big shot big time expensive repairs.


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## uber_312 (Dec 31, 2018)

Lyft only? That makes no sense. Were you banned from Uber?


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

uber_312 said:


> Lyft only? That makes no sense. Were you banned from Uber?


No I plan on signing up with Uber and also maybe doing some food delivery as well. I just haven’t gotten around to it. I just went out for a week to kind of experiment it and see what it was like. But when I switch to full-time I’ll be signing up for everything


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## uber_312 (Dec 31, 2018)

Rav4338 said:


> No I plan on signing up with Uber and also maybe doing some food delivery as well. I just haven’t gotten around to it. I just went out for a week to kind of experiment it and see what it was like. But when I switch to full-time I’ll be signing up for everything


Unless Raleigh-Durham is a Lyft market, better to drive Uber.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Buying a used car is a gamble. The concern is the probability of big bills with an old car, which people weigh up against the certainly of big depreciation but much lower probability of big bills with a new car. Some gamblers use a calculation called "expected value" in order to evaluate whether a gamble is worth taking, and this concept can be applied to buying used cars. It involves analysing and comparing the probabilities of winning and the financial benefits of winning (in this case paying the lowest overall cost (low depreciation and no repair bills)) with the probabilities of losing (paying the highest overall cost), and all of the various outcomes between these two extremes.

Some assumptions have to be made around the risks involved. I assume that the probability of spending $0 on repairs on an old Camry Hybrid while running it over three years and 120,000 miles to be around 30%. I accept that I got lucky with my old Camry to spend $0 in repairs on it during the time I used it and I believe that my experience of zero repairs will not be the same for all people who buy similar vehicles. I assume that the likelihood of spending $5,000 on repairs on such a vehicle over the three years would be around 50%. The chance of spending $10,000 on repairs is estimated at 10%, $15,000 on repairs at 7% and $20,000 at 3%. To work out the expected value of all of these costs, we multiply each spend by its probability and add up all the results, giving this:









To this we add an expected depreciation of $2,500 for a total expected cost of $7,650 over the three years.

We can do the same for a new Rav4. Even though it's a new car, there will still be a risk that the car will need repairs over three years / 120,000 miles once the warranty has expired. However, I estimate the probability of needing repairs to be much lower than that of the older car, as follows:










Using this expected value model, the expected cost savings (or expected increased profit; same thing) with the used car over the three years are (31,850 - 7,650) = $24,200.

Looking at things by thinking about the probabilities of needing repairs along with the expected costs vs much more certain depreciation makes everything a lot clearer.


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> Buying a used car is a gamble. The concern is the probability of big bills with an old car, which people weigh up against the certainly of big depreciation but much lower probability of big bills with a new car. Some gamblers use a calculation called "expected value" in order to evaluate whether a gamble is worth taking, and this concept can be applied to buying used cars. It involves analysing and comparing the probabilities of winning and the financial benefits of winning (in this case paying the lowest overall cost (low depreciation and no repair bills)) with the probabilities of losing (paying the highest overall cost), and all of the various outcomes between these two extremes.
> 
> Some assumptions have to be made around the risks involved. I assume that the risk of spending $0 on repairs on an old Camry Hybrid while running it over three years and 120,000 miles to be around 30%. I accept that I got lucky with my old Camry to spend $0 in repairs on it during the time I used it and I believe that my experience of zero repairs will not be the same for all people who buy similar vehicles. I assume that the likelihood of spending $5,000 on repairs on such a vehicle over the three years would be around 50%. The chance of spending $10,000 on repairs is estimated at 10%, $15,000 on repairs at 7% and $20,000 at 3%. To work out the expected value of all of these costs, we multiply each spend by its probability and add up all the results, giving this:
> 
> ...


I would correct one thing in your assessment. I paid roughly 32,000 out the door for my new RAV4. This includes taxes. In three years I’m calculating it to have roughly 250,000 miles on it. A 2022 Toyota RAV4 that is in clean condition in the year 2025 with roughly 250,000 miles on it still would fetch me probably $7000. So it’s not a total depreciation loss. Somebody who plans on driving it maybe 15,000 miles a year will be able to get four or five more years of use out of it for $7000.

I totally get what you’re saying. If I knew I could buy a Prius with 100,000 miles on it for $10,000 and it would run to 300,000 miles with relatively low major maintenance costs or repairs I would jump on it in a heartbeat for this gig.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Rav4338 said:


> I would correct one thing in your assessment. I paid roughly 32,000 out the door for my new RAV4. This includes taxes. In three years I’m calculating it to have roughly 250,000 miles on it. A 2022 Toyota RAV4 that is in clean condition in the year 2025 with roughly 250,000 miles on it still would fetch me probably $7000. So it’s not a total depreciation loss. Somebody who plans on driving it maybe 15,000 miles a year will be able to get four or five more years of use out of it for $7000.
> 
> I totally get what you’re saying. If I knew I could buy a Prius with 100,000 miles on it for $10,000 and it would run to 300,000 miles with relatively low major maintenance costs or repairs I would jump on it in a heartbeat for this gig.


In that case, yes, $30k for depreciation is too high for a Rav4 in the example of three years / 120,000 miles.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

elelegido said:


> Avoid Corolla. Not the optimal rideshare vehicle at all. Get a Prius or Camry Hybrid.


May I add Honda Accord Hybrid to this list. My 2015 had 80,000 on it when I bought it at the end of 2019 for $13,999. Now has 240,000 on it with NO repairs. ZERO. (Yes, of course routine maintenance, tires, fluid changes, headlight bulbs, of course). Still on ORIGINAL brakes. Not kidding. Hybrids brake magnetically if you brake gently and pads only make contact if you brake hard. Gets a real world average 40mpg and an accord is a big, comfortable, easy to drive car. 7 years old and over 200,000 miles and at least once a week someone asks me if it's brand new... which brings up the other factor - HOW you drive it. If you were an OTR trucker I'm sure you know the concept of going easy on the machinery. So that won't be a problem for you.

Nothing against Toyotas... and I know that their quality is as good as my Honda. But I can't say enough good things about this car. It has exceeded, no, obliterated my expectations in every way.

I've been driving nothing but Accords for the last 30 years and I just have such a feeling of confidence owning one. My last Accord was a 2012 Special Edition, which I had when I started Uber. It had 305,000 miles on it and I sold it to a rideshare driver I know who needed a car to send his kid to college with. The book value (with those miles on it) was $3400 and when I told him that was the price he showed up at my house 15 minutes later with a pile of benjamins. 






The car hasn't even so much as farted since then and the student has been driving it for 3 years. I think it has about 380k on it now.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

One final thought then I'll shut up... keep your CDL current. If any of the bad things happen (deactivation, market saturation, Uber or Lyft going bankrupt) you can EASILY go back to trucking (as you already know, drivers are always in demand).

And yes, I'll second the notion to SIGN UP FOR UBER it pays more. Plus it's good to have two lines in the water if the fish aren't biting as steadily.


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> One final thought then I'll shut up... keep your CDL current. If any of the bad things happen (deactivation, market saturation, Uber or Lyft going bankrupt) you can EASILY go back to trucking (as you already know, drivers are always in demand).
> 
> And yes, I'll second the notion to SIGN UP FOR UBER it pays more. Plus it's good to have two lines in the water if the fish aren't biting as steadily.


Oh I don’t think the average person has any idea what the demand is for over the road truck drivers right now. But that’s not the problem. I feel like Tom Brady in the height of his career being a free agent and I can go out and demand pretty much any pay I want being an over the road truck driver right now. But let me tell you first hand, if you want to see your life eaten Up in flash by faster than using a new car to drive rideshare, go be an over the road truck driver. Lol the last four years went by in a blur and I don’t remember anything other than driving around the country. Yes the paychecks are fat, and you can save some money quickly, but rather than selling equity in a car like you might be doing with rideshare you’re selling your soul. Lol


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## Toocutetofail (Sep 14, 2018)

You just won Uber Lyft ant of the year!!! Imagine driving people in a brand new $32k Rav4 for .30 cents per mile. At least change your oil every 5k miles since you'll be logging about 7k miles per month. Unless you have Trucking burnout, go back and apply for local driving jobs on dedicated accounts. You should be home daily or have some time off. 

You forgot to mention one fact about Uber and Lyft, Pay cuts are guaranteed year after year just like dwindling weekly promotions while currently at the bottom of the scale. You know what else is guaranteed? Deactivation after one bogus complaint. 

Just like your plan to drive 7 days a week/ 12 hour days. One of the dumbest post I've read in a while. Well at least you have after the holidays slowdown to help you out in 2023. Not to worry, you'll have 200 mile rides to help you. 

You forgot to mention, it isn't how hard you work but how smart you work.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Toocutetofail said:


> You just won Uber Lyft ant of the year!!! Imagine driving people in a brand new $32k Rav4 for .30 cents per mile. At least change your oil every 5k miles since you'll be logging about 7k miles per month. Unless you have Trucking burnout, go back and apply for local driving jobs on dedicated accounts. You should be home daily or have some time off.
> 
> You forgot to mention one fact about Uber and Lyft, Pay cuts are guaranteed year after year just like dwindling weekly promotions while currently at the bottom of the scale. You know what else is guaranteed? Deactivation after one bogus complaint.
> 
> ...


The guy is new to rideshare and wanted advice. Before I started rideshare I knew nothing about it, or its costs, or how to make money at it. It's not appropriate at all to call his post "dumb" or to insult him. 

I like most of the stuff you post, but this goes a little too far IMO.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Whatever you do, don't use a new vehicle or any worth $10,000+ for rideshare. It's the equivalent of driving down the road and tossing a $20 bill out the window every couple of miles.


Wow that's amazing, so if one drive 60,000 miles per year doing Uber or Lyft according to you they can save $300,000 per year, where can I sign up for that deal, I just love hyperbole..lol


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> I just love hyperbole..lol


Mocks hyperbole


> Wow that's amazing, so if one drive 60,000 miles per year doing Uber or Lyft according to you they can save $300,000 per year, where can I sign up for that deal


Writes hyperbole


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

If you do XL, Lux or Black, then Lyft is just as good or better than Uber, in my opinion. I couldn’t see myself wanting to do ride-share as a career if I were just doing Uber X or basic Lyft…got to deal with too much bullshit at too low of a profit margin.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Brutal honesty?

How much has pay for trucking gone up in the last 8 years?

Becuase in the last 8 years pay for uer/lyft driving has consistently fallen for the same numer of hours driven.

There's also something called "honeymoon period"

new drivers get more/better fares than the older drivers do. They also more in incentives.


So my honest to god feeling,

Stick with what your doing because the next pay cut is around the corner, and when the honeymoon period ends you won't be able to make as much anyway.



Plus you arn't accounting for your car falling part and needing to drop $1000s to put your car back together.

Plus there's suspensions for false accusations for someoen accusing you of being drunk.



Full time driving I estimate you only have 3-5 years before you get deactivated (fired) for false accusations that arnt' your fault. Some last longer some last less. But eventually it happens to everyone.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

elelegido said:


> What you're missing is that using a new vehicle for rideshare and planning to replace it with another new one in three years' time is a terrible, terrible business model and an obscene waste of money.
> 
> Every dollar saved in expense is worth precisely one extra dollar in profit. No more, no less. So you want to pare all expenses to the bone, including and especially depreciation. I bought an old Camry Hybrid for $3,900 and put an additional 130,000 miles on it over the three years of rideshare I did with it. It needed no repairs during that time. None. And when I was done with it, it was worth $2,500. That would have been $1,400 of deprecation. Compare and contrast with $30,000+ depreciation on using a new vehicle over that period. I added $28,600 to my profit for no extra effort or work on my part. Work smarter, _not_ harder.
> 
> ...


You put 130k on a used Camry and you did NO repairs? No tires? Brakes? Shocks? Nothing? A little terrifying.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

#1 Drive for Uber and Lyft. Incentives vary week to week, so you will likely go back and forth between them.
#2. Figure out the busy times in your market. Were you really busy continuously for 12 hours a day? Probably not.


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## Palm Beach Driver (Oct 27, 2017)

I have been doing Uber and Lyft full-time for just over 5 years now. Do not under any circumstances listen to the negativity that is on this board. Depending on how many hours you want to work in a week you certainly can make a living doing Uber and Lyft full-time. I am also in my early 50s and I have retired from my prior career. I drive Monday through Friday from about 5:00 a.m. until about noon. I do not work any nights, no holidays and no weekends. As with any business there are people that will be successful with it and there are people that will not be successful. Those that are not successful with it find reasons and ways to blame everybody and everything other than themselves. I am proof that you can indeed do this full time and make a decent living. I also bought a brand new car in 2020 and I use it for my personal vehicle as well as driving rideshare. I am not putting on anywhere near 300 miles a day it is closer to 130 - 150 a day maybe 200 on a busy busy day. Remember at the end of the day you take dollars to the bank, not ride refusals, not anything else other than dollars. Some days will be slower than you would like and other days you will be as busy as you can handle. That is pretty standard within many industries. Keep a positive attitude and remember that at the end of the day you are doing this on your terms and the only person you have to blame is yourself. If you listen to the negativity on this board they will convince you that you will put on $250, you will have 10 different health problems, you will drive your car into the ground in 30 days, you will only be making a dollar 70 an hour home now and you will be an angry and violent person by your third month. I am sure some of them are that is their issue. It is not an issue that applies to everyone. How you approach this business determines how successful you will be. If you want to complain you can complain if you want to thrive you will thrive. Good luck let me know if I can be of any help.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

@Palm Beach Driver well said you spittin straight facts


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Palm Beach Driver said:


> I have been doing Uber and Lyft full-time for just over 5 years now. Do not under any circumstances listen to the negativity that is on this board. Depending on how many hours you want to work in a week you certainly can make a living doing Uber and Lyft full-time. I am also in my early 50s and I have retired from my prior career. I drive Monday through Friday from about 5:00 a.m. until about noon. I do not work any nights, no holidays and no weekends. As with any business there are people that will be successful with it and there are people that will not be successful. Those that are not successful with it find reasons and ways to blame everybody and everything other than themselves. I am proof that you can indeed do this full time and make a decent living. Remember at the end of the day you take dollars to the bank, not ride refusals, not anything else other than dollars. Some days will be slower than you would like and other days you will be as busy as you can handle. That is pretty standard within many industries. Keep a positive attitude and remember that at the end of the day you are doing this on your terms and the only person you have to blame is yourself. Good luck let me know if I can be of any help.


Same. I work 6:30-10:30, then 1:30-4:30 Monday through Friday, not nights, weekends or major holidays. I've been driving nearly 7 years, and each year has been better than the last. You have to know your market, and work the apps to maximize your earnings and minimize the games the apps play. I'm not one of those decline everything drivers. I'm at 85% on Uber and over 90% on Lyft. And yes, I do decline the lowballs. I'm averaging $1.22/mile and $28/hour so far this week. I'll work about 31 hours this week. Enough for me


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Mocks hyperbole
> Writes hyperbole
> 
> View attachment 689663


Interesting my statement to you is irony, but you're spitting out hyperbole when someone is asking a serious question, should someone buy a brand new car to do Rideshare no in fact in my opinion no one should buy a brand new car at all for anything, I bought a 5-year-old car a 2017 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid only 44,000 miles on the odometer when I bought it and it has a 150,000 Mi warranty, I could have bought something a little less expensive than my Lincoln mkz, yes, but I want to ride in comfort and I've always wanted an MKZ and I wanted reliability and a warranty, plus I qualify for Uber comfort and Lyft luxury, and I know where to go in my market to get Lyft luxury rides in the morning,

You rolled the dice on a $3900 car and you won, someone else may not be as lucky, what if you had drop the transmission or blown an engine would you think that 3,900 car was so great then.


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## Gnash (Dec 28, 2016)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Just make sure to factor in the unfortunate reality that many drivers get deactivated without cause based solely on false accusations by passengers. So work multiple apps if you're going to do this full-time. Other than that, I think you have a solid understanding of the financial realities at play here. Good luck and good fortune to you.


Keep a dashcam recording so you can dispute any false accusations.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I'd say give it a try !
Good Luck and keep us informed.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Well some of the numbers sound wrong and crazy. No guarantees in life. Steve has the best answer about being new..incentives...newbie dust.
I drive a $40,000 2019 dodge caravan with a really nice wheelchair conversion. Newer ones now cost $60k+ uber x xl comfort and wav. I own this one last one was $900 month lease x 36 months.
For a new 55k van.
I get xtra pay sure for my job. But dont listen to the negative people. Keep all you CDL contacts and stuff. Try it. Worry about everything else later. Dont worry be happy.
That leased van made me 300k.
Merry Christmas


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Do you like your car? If you like it, don’t use it as your only car. Buy a 10 year old car and use that. If something goes wrong with it, your current car will be a back up. 
Drive 2pm to 2am or 5pm to 5 am. Better trips. Less traffic Better mpg Make sure to take breaks. Learn busy spots. Stay away from airport


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Atom guy said:


> You put 130k on a used Camry and you did NO repairs? No tires? Brakes? Shocks? Nothing? A little terrifying.


No, no repairs.

However, tires, brakes, shocks and other items like spark plugs, oil, oil filters, wiper blades etc are not considered repairs, but service items. Service items are defined as consumables that wear as they are used and have a predicted service life - which do not fall under the category of repairs. Repairs are defined as the replacement of failed parts that are not expected to consume themselves (unless you run a Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, GM etc in which engines and transmissions are considered consumables) and do not have a specified regular or expected service life or change interval.

An easy way to identify the difference between consumables and repairs is to think about the expectations for the part and to ask whether or not the need to replace the part would be considered a failure. If the answer is "yes", then it's likely to be considered a repair. If the answer is "no" then it's likely to be a consumable. It's not always 100% cut and dried, but it should help give you some idea. For example:


Is changing the oil and filter every x thousand miles considered a failure of the oil and fiter? Answer: no, therefore oil and filter changes are service items and not repairs.
Is changing the tires every x thousand miles when they wear out considered a failure of the tires? Answer no, therefore tires are service items and not a repair
Is having to change a head gasket at 80,000 miles considered a failure of the head gasket? Answer: yes, therefore head gasket replacement is considered a repair and not a service item
Of course the car went through consumables such as tires (2 sets) , brakes (front rotors and one set of pads in the front), oil and filter every 5,000 miles, wiper blades every year.

Here's a little more info on what consumables are, in case you're still in any doubt:









Consumables for the Car What are They and What is Their Importance - California Beat


In the article below, we will see what are consumables for the car and what's their importance. So, let's begin.




www.californiabeat.org


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## SSider829 (Jan 6, 2016)

As a career? 

Absolutely not. As a way to make a few bucks when you’re broke and willing to trade your vehicle’s equity for cash today plus maybe $10 an hour? Yes.


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


what are you missing? 🤔. You havnt mentioned Taxes. Insurance, permits if any, car running costs like new tyres,flat tyres brakes, oil changes. Servicing, cleaning costs, there’s also phone and data costs.and and damage that may occur that you will fix yourself avoiding Insurance. Cracked windscreens.

There’s also very slow times like January, and then busy times. Some hours you make nothing or barely anything, other hours you may feel rich, takes months to years to learn,

you can over halve your fuel costs by going hybrid, which means more money in the bank, even better if you can go Ev and charge at home, I started with a V6 released it’s too expensive. and then decreased to a 2litre, now I’m using a Toyota Corolla 1.5hybrid, and can’t believe how cheap it is to run, and maintain, I should have bought 7years ago, it was also cheap to buy being 4years old. Just recently a Corolla made the news here. Done 2million kms, in miles that’s 1.2million miles and still in great condition, original motor and gearbox, just regularly serviced, 

I also would never buy or use a new car, buying a 4/5year old car will save you a lot more money in the long term. I could spend $35/40k on a new car that would last 15years. Or spend $10/15k on a 5year old car that would last 10years. Spending 25-30k more for a car that can last 5years longer is insane. If your gonna go new, use it until you can’t anymore. Get as much use out of it, repairs on a older car is much cheaper than a new car, but it won’t need as many repairs as you If your gonna go new, use it until you can’t anymore. Get as much use out of it,

driving for Uber isnt much of a life, the best hours to work are at nights less traffic, higher prices. Easier to park illegally. Avoiding tickets, You need to put the hours in to make money, know when to call it a day when it’s slow, know the areas, know how cherry pick, can take a couple years to refine expenses.Ive been doing this gig for 7years full time. It pays the bills but it’s not great pay, but you sacrifice good pay for the freedom of choosing your hours. And being able to stop at any time, but driving does get boring and wears you out, as you know.

I personally wouldn’t recommend anyone to sign up for Uber now, it use to be good when It started, but the pay rates dropped, costs to drive rose like fuel prices. Too many drivers signed up,Uber raised their commission rates for newer drivers, 

you can make it work though.Just don’t expect to get rich,


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

SSider829 said:


> As a career?
> 
> Absolutely not. As a way to make a few bucks when you’re broke and willing to trade your vehicle’s equity for cash today plus maybe $10 an hour? Yes.


The problem I have with most of the talk about losing the equity of the car is, is how much of that Equity loss to Uber what is the percentage you actually saying is a loss, example if you bought a four or five year old Camry and you paid $20,000 for it and had low miles on it, in 4 years from now you sold it with 200,000 miles on it and let's say you only got I don't know $8,000 or $10,000 for it, how much would you would have got for if it didn't have Uber miles on it or if it had your normal everyday driving and committing to work miles on it, the problem I have is it seems like people like you want to count 100% of that Equity loss as a loss due to Uber as if you could have sold that car for exactly what you paid for it when you bought it four or five years ago Uber or not.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Classified said:


> what are you missing? 🤔. You havnt mentioned Taxes. Insurance, permits if any, car running costs like new tyres,flat tyres brakes, oil changes. Servicing, cleaning costs, there’s also phone and data costs.and and damage that may occur that you will fix yourself avoiding Insurance. Cracked windscreens.
> 
> There’s also very slow times like January, and then busy times. Some hours you make nothing or barely anything, other hours you may feel rich, takes months to years to learn,
> 
> ...


Taxes vary more by what market you are in than how much money you make.

A NYC uber driver will get tons and tons of taxes they have to pay before they can take their first ping then taxes taken on every ride, then more taxes taken out come tax time.

An orlando X driver will simply never owe any taxes period, it's impossible to turn a profit by IRS standards anymore.

So you wont' owe shit until you have to pay for a lawyer when the IRS audits you and doesn't beleive that you only made 50c for every 3 miles you drove.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Classified said:


> what are you missing? 🤔. You havnt mentioned Taxes. Insurance, permits if any, car running costs like new tyres,flat tyres brakes, oil changes. Servicing, cleaning costs, there’s also phone and data costs.and and damage that may occur that you will fix yourself avoiding Insurance. Cracked windscreens.


So if not for Uber you would have no phone and data charges and no insurance and you wouldn't pay for unlimited car washes to wash your car,

The cost of insurance, the cost of phone and data, and the cost of putting your car is all due to uber, if not doing Uber and Lyft you would have none of those expenses to pay every month,

For me the only one of those that are extra expenses is I pay 20 bucks a month extra for phone data my normal phone bill is $45 a month so I pay an extra 20 for a little more data I don't know what Universe most of you live in where you keep telling everyone that your insurance your phone and car washes are an extra expense, so if you stop driving Uber and Lyft you plan to turn in your car and your phone and never ever pay insurance and never paid for unlimited car washes, I wish I could live like that sign me up.


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> The problem I have with most of the talk about losing the equity of the car is, is how much of that Equity loss to Uber what is the percentage you actually saying is a loss, example if you bought a four or five year old Camry and you paid $20,000 for it and had low miles on it, in 4 years from now you sold it with 200,000 miles on it and let's say you only got I don't know $8,000 or $10,000 for it, how much would you would have got for if it didn't have Uber miles on it or if it had your normal everyday driving and committing to work miles on it, the problem I have is it seems like people like you want to count 100% of that Equity loss as a loss due to Uber as if you could have sold that car for exactly what you paid for it when you bought it four or five years ago Uber or not.


$32,000 rav 4 drive to 300,000 mile mark. 4 years of Uber / lyft miles. Total revenue from car nets $249,000 estimate 

cost of new car -$32,000
estimated maintenance: -$5200
estimated repairs -$5000 (could be $0 but adding $5000 to be safe) 
Gas cost (I get 34mpg city) -$26,470
Insurance (for ride share) -$912 
Im aware of taxes but for this drill I’m just estimating income.
Miscellaneous unexpected expenses -4500.
Total 4 year plan deductions: $74,082
Subtract from total revenue of $249,000 equals $174,918. 
then we add back $6000 estimated selling price of 2022 rav 4 with 300,000 miles in 2026. 
$180,918 divided by four years.

Net estimated annual income. $45,229.

you’re correct, you’re not gonna get rich off of that. But that will pay the bills. Keep in mind I’ll be doing other things on the side to make more income. Being home you can easily add $15,000 to that that i wouldnt make being OTR. I’m a single guy, my home is cheap and it’s paid for, I don’t have a lot of bills and I can comfortably live off of $45,000 a year. Hell, I can probably live on less than $2000 a month and even with that income save $20,000 a year. But I’ll be making at least another 15,000 flipping things on the side. And that figure is definitely on the low side.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rav4338 said:


> $32,000 rav 4 drive to 300,000 mile mark. 4 years of Uber / lyft miles. Total revenue from car nets $249,000 estimate
> 
> cost of new car -$32,000
> estimated maintenance: -$5200
> ...


Except for one little detail.

$45,000 this year,
$35,000 next year
.....


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> Interesting my statement to you is irony


Yes, it was indeed very ironic, Alanis. You mocked my used of hyperbole and then, _in the very same sentence, _used even more exaggerated hyperbole than mine. Mocking the very same literary device you yourself use (especially in the same sentence, lol) is, as well as being ironic, hypocritical. It makes you look a little silly.


> you're spitting out hyperbole when someone is asking a serious question, should someone buy a brand new car to do Rideshare


Don't be such a drama queen. I gave the OP a serious answer complete with my own dollar cost figures and mileages and also provided an additional data model illustrating how reliability probabilities affect total expected costs.

It was clear that the hyperbole I wrote about throwing money out the window was figurative and not actual figures. I do understand that some people can only work in literals and are unable to understand figurative speech - but I assure you that does not describe the OP at all - he understood perfectly the figures I presented and he understood the financial model, as well as the fact that the hyperbole I used was simply that. Of course, you know this - you just wanted to criticise something - anything - for the sake of criticising, because that's what you do.



> no in fact in my opinion no one should buy a brand new car at all for anything


You're welcome to your opinion


> I bought a 5-year-old car a 2017 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid only 44,000 miles on the odometer when I bought it and it has a 150,000 Mi warranty, I could have bought something a little less expensive than my Lincoln mkz, yes, but I want to ride in comfort and I've always wanted an MKZ and I wanted reliability and a warranty, plus I qualify for Uber comfort and Lyft luxury, and I know where to go in my market to get Lyft luxury rides in the morning


Good for you. It's your money and you can spend it on whatever you like.


> You rolled the dice on a $3900 car and you won, someone else may not be as lucky, what if you had drop the transmission or blown an engine would you think that 3,900 car was so great then.


Have a re-read of the section I wrote on modelling expected costs based on reliability probabilities and all (may) become clear to you.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Rav4338 said:


> $32,000 rav 4 drive to 300,000 mile mark. 4 years of Uber / lyft miles. Total revenue from car nets $249,000 estimate
> 
> cost of new car -$32,000
> estimated maintenance: -$5200
> ...


$912 for 4 years' insurance? That's very cheap. I paid that for one year in the Camry. Unless that's just the rideshare premium over and above what you'd have anyway.

I don't know enough about the reliability record of Rav4 to know what mileages they are likely to reach with proper maintenance. Maybe 300k is achievable but I would check this if I were you.

Everything else looks ok, apart from what @Stevie The magic Unicorn says about the risk of declining revenue in future years. In all the years that I did rideshare, there was only one year in which revenue went up compared to the previous year instead of down (2016) and that was because Lyft and Uber underwent a bidding war for drivers between themselves, and that's not likely to happen again.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

SSider829 said:


> As a career?
> 
> Absolutely not. As a way to make a few bucks when you’re broke and willing to trade your vehicle’s equity for cash today plus maybe $10 an hour? Yes.


Member since 2016 and only $10 hour and your from Chicago...you need to do something else


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## Rav4338 (3 mo ago)

I just chatted with the guy that was trying to tell me to go buy a new Tesla. He actually uses a solar set up that covers over 3/4 of his charging cost. That he literally drives the Tesla for free minus depreciation of course. But here’s the thing with those electric power units. If you properly maintain them they will go literally 1,000,000 miles.


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## Grand Lake (Feb 27, 2018)

Rav4338 said:


> But let me tell you first hand, if you want to see your life eaten Up in flash by faster than using a new car to drive rideshare, go be an over the road truck driver. Lol the last four years went by in a blur and I don’t remember anything other than driving around the country.


Other than sleeping in your own bed, it isn’t really that different. You have fantasies that you’ll take breaks to go to the gym, go to nice restaurants, go to bars, etc., but the reality is that you’re not going to be anywhere but in your car, either driving or sitting and staring at your phone and grinding your teeth worrying about quests and shit.
Personally I think you would be better off getting an in-town job in trucking or something else that requires a commercial license. The money you make in the first few weeks of rideshare is not an accurate predictor of future earnings because they steer better rides your way at first to get you hooked.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Grand Lake said:


> Other than sleeping in your own bed, it isn’t really that different. You have fantasies that you’ll take breaks to go to the gym, go to nice restaurants, go to bars, etc., but the reality is that you’re not going to be anywhere but in your car, either driving or sitting and staring at your phone and grinding your teeth worrying about quests and shit.
> Personally I think you would be better off getting an in-town job in trucking or something else that requires a commercial license. The money you make in the first few weeks of rideshare is not an accurate predictor of future earnings because they steer better rides your way at first to get you hooked.


On the other hand, he already has the car. He might as well keep at it for a few months and see how things go. If things don't turn out as expected, he won't have lost anything except some time.

It'd be a totally different story if he had no vehicle and was asking, "Should I borrow 30 grand to buy a new vehicle for rideshare?". The correct reaction then would definitely be


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

I kinda agree but disagree with annual pay. It's big time your location. Some are bad. I know florida is tough..phila boston chi.. are better. NYC omg alot of fees. Plus free stress.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Is trucking really that bad? I keep hearing how there is a severe shortage, so one would think the rates would be good enough to get folks to hustle there.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Gnash said:


> Keep a dashcam recording so you can dispute any false accusations.


Or to catch a big bolide (meteor).


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

It's not always the money...guy maybe likes to be home daily and willing to take 50% cut in pay.
I used to work every weekend nights and holidays...I only do full days. Home every sat sun dinner.
Except private jobs..


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

elelegido said:


> Buying a used car is a gamble. The concern is the probability of big bills with an old car, which people weigh up against the certainly of big depreciation but much lower probability of big bills with a new car. Some gamblers use a calculation called "expected value" in order to evaluate whether a gamble is worth taking, and this concept can be applied to buying used cars. It involves analysing and comparing the probabilities of winning and the financial benefits of winning (in this case paying the lowest overall cost (low depreciation and no repair bills)) with the probabilities of losing (paying the highest overall cost), and all of the various outcomes between these two extremes.
> 
> Some assumptions have to be made around the risks involved. I assume that the probability of spending $0 on repairs on an old Camry Hybrid while running it over three years and 120,000 miles to be around 30%. I accept that I got lucky with my old Camry to spend $0 in repairs on it during the time I used it and I believe that my experience of zero repairs will not be the same for all people who buy similar vehicles. I assume that the likelihood of spending $5,000 on repairs on such a vehicle over the three years would be around 50%. The chance of spending $10,000 on repairs is estimated at 10%, $15,000 on repairs at 7% and $20,000 at 3%. To work out the expected value of all of these costs, we multiply each spend by its probability and add up all the results, giving this:
> 
> ...


What an ABSOLUTE JOKE. You admit to not having ANY repairs then pull some random ass numbers out yer butt to make no sense at all.

What $20,000 repair? You do know that dealerships are full of brand new cars that have broken down?

Thanks for the good laugh.


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## Toocutetofail (Sep 14, 2018)

THE INDUSTRY
*What Shocked Me Most When I Became a Lyft Driver for a Week*
*How much passengers were charged, how much I took home, and that somehow this company is still in business.*
BY TIMOTHY B. LEE
DEC 22, 20229:30 AM








The business model of Lyft does not necessarily reflect good sense. Chris Helgren/Reuters
TWEETSHARECOMMENT

_This article is from __Full Stack Economics__, a newsletter about the economy, technology, and public policy._
It was the Saturday night before Halloween, and I was ferrying costumed, intoxicated young adults around our nation’s capital. Shortly before midnight, I picked up a normally dressed woman in downtown D.C., who was heading home after a large fundraising dinner at the city’s convention center.
Demand was off the charts, and my passenger told me that Lyft had charged her $59 for our six-mile trip to Arlington, Virginia. I was surprised because that was far more money than I’d earned on any of the 24 trips I’d completed so far that week.
After I dropped her off, the Lyft app revealed my portion of the base fare: $16.52. My passenger added a generous $8.96 tip, for total earnings of $25.48. That made it my most lucrative trip that week. But Lyft raked in much more: $42.48.
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A lot had changed since the last time I drove for Lyft as a journalistic experiment in 2014 (and wrote about it for Vox). Back then, drivers took home a standard 80 percent of a passenger’s fare, sometimes with tips and bonuses on top. Earlier this fall, I decided it was time to embed in the driver’s seat of a Lyft once again. It turned out that in recent years, the relationship between driver compensation and passenger fares has become … complicated.
After that Saturday night trip, I started asking my passengers how much they’d paid and comparing it to what I’d earned. The results were all over the map. I had two trips where I got more than 80 percent of the total fare, including tips. I had a couple of others where I earned less than 30 percent.
I wrapped up my Lyft driving experiment after a week, having completed 100 rides in 46 hours and earning $1,111. Lyft eventually sent me a report showing that passengers had paid a total of $2,139.73 for these rides, so on average I got just 52 percent of what my passengers paid.
Ever since then, I’ve been trying to figure out how Lyft could take such a big cut of passenger revenue and still fail to turn a profit—Lyft says that it lost almost a billion dollars in the first nine months of 2022. The more I’ve looked into it, the more I became convinced that it’s going to take major cost-cutting for Lyft to avoid eventual bankruptcy. I was also left asking one question: If after all these years, Lyft and its competitor Uber’s disruption of the old taxi model still doesn’t make business sense, what was the point?
*
An Overgrown Taxi Dispatch Service*
There’s a thought experiment I find illuminating: Imagine that Lyft announced tomorrow that it was going to shut down its app and lay off most of its staff. Then it was going to open a bunch of call centers and hire people to book taxi rides over the phone instead.
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When a passenger wanted a ride, they would call a toll-free number (1-800-GET-LYFT, perhaps) and provide pickup and dropoff locations. The operator would then relay this information to drivers, perhaps in a group chat or over an old-style radio system, and one of them would claim the ride. The operator would provide the passenger with an estimated pickup time and take credit card information over the phone.
Here’s the question about this hypothetical version of Lyft: Would it be more or less expensive to operate than the company that actually exists?
Intuitively, you’d expect the answer to be “more expensive,” right? After all, booking a ride on the Lyft app is an automated process. A single server in Lyft’s data center should be able to book hundreds if not thousands of rides in an hour, while costing less to operate than the wages of a call-center worker.
Yet there’s good reason to think that my retro version of Lyft would actually be much cheaper to operate than the high-tech version. I’ve basically described an old-fashioned taxi dispatch company—the kind that dominated the industry before Uber and Lyft came along. Back in 2016, a transportation economist named Hubert Horan crunched the numbers and found that in the pre-Lyft world, about 15 percent of passenger fares (including tips) went to dispatching and other “back office” functions. The other 85 percent went to driver compensation, fuel, and the costs of vehicle ownership and maintenance.
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It seems that the smartphone revolution didn’t make taxi dispatching cheaper and more efficient. It made it way more expensive.
So if Lyft were as operationally lean as a traditional taxi company, the driver would get 85 percent of passenger fares (Lyft drivers pay to maintain and fuel their own vehicles, after all), while Lyft would be able to cover its costs with the other 15 percent. But if my rides are any indication, Lyft is taking way more than 15 percent and still losing a ton of money. It seems that the smartphone revolution didn’t make dispatching cheaper and more efficient, as you might expect. It made it way more expensive.
I’m leaning on my own experience here because Lyft is frustratingly opaque about its financials. Lyft publishes a net revenue figure with driver pay already subtracted out. As far as I can tell, Lyft doesn’t publish its gross bookings, making it impossible to calculate Lyft’s overall “take rate.” The company declined to speak to me for this story or provide data on how it splits fares with drivers.
Uber is more transparent. Last quarter Uber reported ride hailing revenues of $3.6 billion on gross bookings of $13.4 billion, for a “take rate” of 28 percent. That’s still a larger cut than traditional taxi dispatchers take, according to Horan’s math, but it’s much less than the 48 percent “take rate” I experienced as a Lyft driver.
*
“This Is a Crappy Business”*
Last month I argued that rising interest rates were forcing Silicon Valley to undertake a significant culture change. During the 2010s, companies like Uber and Lyft focused on rapid growth without worrying too much about costs. With interest rates at rock bottom, investors were willing to throw billions of dollars at these companies hoping that they’d be the next Amazon or Facebook—companies whose early losses eventually turned into big profits.
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Now, with growth slowing and interest rates rising, Lyft is running out of time. The company needs to figure out how to reach profitability at its current scale.
Horan has been arguing for many years that this is impossible because Lyft and Uber have not significantly improved on the business model of traditional taxi dispatchers.
“This is a crappy business,” Horan told me in a recent phone interview. “The only way Uber has ever improved its profit margins is by screwing drivers.”
Like any labor-intensive industry, taxi companies face a basic tug-of-war between workers and customers. Every dollar of driver income comes out of the pockets of passengers. With no real way to raise driver productivity (as might happen in a factory), the only way to raise driver income is by charging passengers more money. But most potential riders aren’t wealthy, so if you charge more, you’ll get fewer customers.
Five years ago, Uber and Lyft aimed to reshape the taxi industry by enabling carpooling at a large scale. Services like Uber Pool and Lyft Line really could have improved the economics of the taxi business, since it would have allowed a driver to earn income from multiple passengers at the same time. But my week as a Lyft driver made me skeptical these services will amount to much: only five out of my 100 rides were shared. That could partly be an aftershock of the pandemic crushing demand for shared rides, but it doesn’t seem like a promising sign.
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I think it’s overstating things to say that Uber and Lyft haven’t improved on traditional taxis. At a minimum, Uber and Lyft have dramatically improved the reliability of pickups. I’m old enough to remember calling a taxi in the pre-Lyft days and not knowing if it would show up. I think many passengers are willing to pay at least a small premium for that.
Lyft’s software also has some features that boost driver productivity:
• Because drivers use their personal vehicles, they have the option to head out on the road during periods of peak demand, like Friday and Saturday nights.
• When I was driving, Lyft frequently had a new passenger ready for pickup before I’d even dropped the previous passenger off, minimizing waiting between passengers.
• At the end of a shift, Lyft has a feature that lets drivers only accept rides that will get them closer to home. This helps to avoid “deadheading,” where the driver has to waste time and fuel driving home with an empty car.
In theory, conventional taxi dispatchers could do those last two things, but I bet the combination of large scale and precise GPS coordinates enables Lyft to do it more effectively.
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But with that said, I think Horan is right that these are fairly incremental improvements to the basic taxi business model. Which leaves Uber and Lyft with the same challenging economic model as a traditional taxi company.
*
Journey to Maryland*
The longest and most interesting trip of my week as a Lyft driver came on Sunday, Oct. 30 around 10 p.m. I picked up a young rapper named Sir E.U in D.C.’s Adams Morgan neighborhood who asked if we could listen to his music on my car’s speakers. With the music playing, we proceeded to Children’s Hospital, where I picked up a second passenger I’ll call Michael. We then drove south into Maryland, dropping off Sir E.U, and then continuing to drop off Michael in Waldorf, Maryland, almost an hour’s drive south of the hospital.
During our long drive south, Michael told me that he’d just left his one-year-old daughter with her mother so she could get surgery for an unusual growth on her neck. He would have liked to stay the night, but he needed to get back to his low-paying retail job on Monday morning.
Michael was 21 years old and told me that he’d been working as a plumber’s apprentice until his car broke down. For a while, he tried to continue his training by taking Lyft rides, but after racking up an $800 Lyft bill in one month he realized he couldn’t keep doing that. So he was stuck in a dead-end job until he could save up enough money to get his car fixed.
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Michael paid $61 for his trip to Waldorf, and Sir E.U paid another $19.99, for a total of $80.99. I earned less than half of that—$38.72—for the ride.
If you’re a college-educated professional, you probably take Lyft for a night on the town or to get to the airport. You might assume most of Lyft’s passengers are like you. And I certainly did have a fair number of passengers like that.
But I also had a lot of passengers like Michael: lower-income people who didn’t have a car and relied on Lyft to get places transit couldn’t take them. Michael clearly can’t afford to take $61 taxi rides on a regular basis, but the situation left him with no good options.
It’s passengers like Michael—even more than Lyft drivers—who would benefit if Uber and Lyft figured out how to make their dispatching service more efficient. Lyft effectively charged Michael around $30 to arrange our ride. I bet if they put their minds to it, they could figure out how to do the job for much less than that. That’s not because it actually costs $30 to connect a rider with a driver—it’s because Lyft needs billions of dollars to cover its massive overhead.
*
The Case for Frugality*
There’s a wide range of attitudes toward frugality within the tech industry. On the one hand, you have a company like Google that provides its employees with free meals and every imaginable perk. Google has spent billions of dollars on “moonshot” experiments like self-driving cars with little regard for their costs. Google is able to do this because its search engine is a quasi-monopoly that throws off billions of dollars in profit every year.
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Google’s workplace culture has had a big influence across Silicon Valley—including at Lyft, which like Google has long offered employees free lunches.
But not every company works like Google. At the other extreme you have a company like Amazon that builds desks out of doors to make a point about the importance of thrift. Amazon had to develop a frugal culture in its early years because it was operating in the low-margin retail industry, competing with famously tight-fisted companies like Walmart.
I think a lot of tech companies, including Lyft, could stand to be less like Google and more like Amazon. And that’s especially true for a company like Lyft that is (like Amazon) operating in a low-margin, labor-intensive industry.

Back in April, venture capitalist Marc Andreessen wrote that “the good big companies are overstaffed by 2x. The bad big companies are overstaffed by 4x or more.”
Then last month, Elon Musk put that theory to the test. He laid off around two-thirds of Twitter’s 7,500 employees, leading to numerous predictions the site would “break.”
Twitter has obviously had plenty of problems in the last six weeks, but they haven’t included large-scale outages. Twitter’s engineers seem to have been able to keep the site running with a much smaller staff.
And that makes me wonder whether something similar might work at Lyft. Last month, Lyft laid off 13 percent of its employees, leaving it with a workforce of around 5,000 people. Could Lyft make much deeper cuts while keeping the core business running? It’s hard to know from the outside. But I hope the company’s leadership gives it a try. Because dramatically lower overhead would leave more room for Lyft to offer lower passenger fares and higher driver pay—in other words, to prove that all that disruption had a purpose.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

NOXDriver said:


> What an ABSOLUTE JOKE. You admit to not having ANY repairs then pull some random ass numbers out yer butt to make no sense at all.
> 
> What $20,000 repair? You do know that dealerships are full of brand new cars that have broken down?
> 
> Thanks for the good laugh.


Wow, you certainly sound like a very angry little man! I hope your day gets better.

The purpose of the model is simply to estimate probabilities and to take them into account in the comparison of the two options. As mentioned, the inputs into the data model are estimates and assumptions about mechanical reliability. This is because *surprise* it's not possible to predict future mechanical reliability with certainty, meaning that the output of such a model will also clearly be an estimate. And you talk as if your observation of this obvious point were some kind of revelation, lol. 

Did you also know that water is wet and fire is hot? ROFL 

If you think the estimate is wrong, then the answer is simple - don't use it. There's no point coming on here and throwing a hissy fit and being insulting. Over a discussion on car costs?!? Get a life.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Buying a used car is a gamble. The concern is the probability of big bills with an old car, which people weigh up against the certainly of big depreciation but much lower probability of big bills with a new car. Some gamblers use a calculation called "expected value" in order to evaluate whether a gamble is worth taking, and this concept can be applied to buying used cars. It involves analysing and comparing the probabilities of winning and the financial benefits of winning (in this case paying the lowest overall cost (low depreciation and no repair bills)) with the probabilities of losing (paying the highest overall cost), and all of the various outcomes between these two extremes.
> 
> Some assumptions have to be made around the risks involved. I assume that the probability of spending $0 on repairs on an old Camry Hybrid while running it over three years and 120,000 miles to be around 30%. I accept that I got lucky with my old Camry to spend $0 in repairs on it during the time I used it and I believe that my experience of zero repairs will not be the same for all people who buy similar vehicles. I assume that the likelihood of spending $5,000 on repairs on such a vehicle over the three years would be around 50%. The chance of spending $10,000 on repairs is estimated at 10%, $15,000 on repairs at 7% and $20,000 at 3%. To work out the expected value of all of these costs, we multiply each spend by its probability and add up all the results, giving this:
> 
> ...


There are so many variables to consider this is basically voodoo math.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

I have a friend who decided she was going to do catering out of her house, she did it for a couple of months, she was making about $500 a month good money for about 3 hours of work on the weekends, but she has a friend that's one of those Uber mathematical Geniuses like on this site, he asked her what her monthly payments are on her house and how many rooms, she said there's a total of eight rooms when you include the bathroom kitchen living room and all that about $3,500, so this Uber mathematical genius told her well if you divide $3500 by 8 that's $437 so it's costing you $437 to run your catering business, because your kitchen is now a business office so she decided to close up shop because she can't make any money because it costs her $437 to use her kitchen, yes I know this all sounds very stupid and ridiculous, but that's kind of what I see when I see these numbers here with people saying you can't make money doing Uber.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

The way some of you run these numbers and calculations, and then saying this is the money you don't make doing Uber due to car maintenance Insurance gas depreciation, as if you had a normal job and you didn't do Uber like the car would have none of those expenses at all like if you paid $20,000 for a 5 year old car today 5 years from now the car will still be worth $20,000 and have no maintenance because you're not doing uber.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

painfreepc said:


> The way some of you run these numbers and calculations, and then saying this is the money you don't make doing Uber due to car maintenance Insurance gas depreciation, as if you had a normal job and you didn't do Uber like the car would have none of those expenses at all like if you paid $20,000 for a 5 year old car today 5 years from now the car will still be worth $20,000 and have no maintenance because you're not doing uber.


Do you take Ritalin? All your posts seem to be voice-to-text and all said without taking a breath. That type of angry talking without breathing will negatively effect your circulation and blood pressure.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

As someone who has driven the RDU market for 8 years, here's my advice:
I'm not going to wade into the used vs. new car argument. I have driven both and made much more when I got a beater but I picked well and was lucky. 

The issues with making this a full time gig have probably been dissected already but at the risk of repeating:
At any time of the day or night you could be deactivated for no reason other than a pax was trying to get a free ride. 
Lyft is the lesser of the two choices in RDU, sign up with Uber as well, lowers deactivation risk and gives you the ability to choose the better of the two options on any given day or hour. 
Volume in RDU is very erratic and typically follows the college schedule. Beginning and end of the semester are very busy, drops a bit in the middle as they get closer to finals and dies when they are on break. 
Incentives: The only way to make decent money is to work the incentives, streaks, boost and quests. That's roughly 40% of my income. Base fares do not pay enough to make a decent living. 
Dead miles: If you accept every ping you get you will have a lot of dead unpaid miles. Develop strategies to minimize this. 

Bottom line, if it doesn't work out, you can go back to truck driving can't you? So give it a shot and see if you can't make it work and improve your quality of life.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Don't forget that the vehicle you drive is a "WORK" vehicle. Putting 150k miles on a used hybrid you bought for $6-7k vs. the depreciation on a new vehicle with 150k miles on it, you are way ahead with the older vehicle. Keep that Rav4 parked in your driveway. Run that work car into the ground and you will be $$$ ahead. Your income will not change for old vs new and most of the pax don't give a damn whether you have a new car or not. You will see that in the tips that many will NOT give; new or used car.

Everyone else is correct D/L Uber app and run them both. I have 2 screens on at all times, each one has an app on it. I get a ping on one, I shut off the other. Seems Uber wins that war as well.

I too was an OTR driver for 40 years. As a fellow driver I'm aware of how much that industry has changed over the years. I would love to go back to it if I could have the conditions of the 70's with the trucks (minus ELD and cameras,etc.) That experience makes driving U/L driving a piece of cake. You won't make the money you did but you can be home every night. My OTR day involved 90% night driving which you never, ever get used to. My days of night driving are over.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

elelegido said:


> What you're missing is that using a new vehicle for rideshare and planning to replace it with another new one in three years' time is a terrible, terrible business model and an obscene waste of money.


THAT!
A driver earns the same gross driving a brand new $32,000 RAV4 as they do in a 5 year old $15,000 Prius - but at half the cost and expense.
*There is nothing more important to the profitability of driving rideshare as a career than minimizing the expenses you can control.*

The better you are at finding and buying vehicles, and the more you know about maintaining them in good condition, the more profitable you will be.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> THAT!
> A driver earns the same gross driving a brand new $32,000 RAV4 as they do in a 5 year old $15,000 Prius - but at half the cost and expense.
> There is nothing more important to the profitability of driving rideshare as a career than minimizing the expenses you can control.
> 
> The better you are at finding and buying vehicles, and the more you know about maintaining them in good condition, the more profitable you will be.


The only fly in the ointment is that for a lot of people having a second vehicle in and of itself is a huge investment. You now have a second insurance payment, a second annual license fee, possibly a second car payment with interest, a second set of maintenance costs, a second set of tires, and you need another parking space.


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## TexChuck (Jan 14, 2020)

The good thing is you have worked your city and know your earning “potential” I’m in Houston age 57 and only drive Uber X with 2015 Toyota Camry. I’ve been driving since 2019 as a 2nd job, mileage was 90k when I started and now on 215k and going strong, I have a full time job. Sometimes I drive as much as full time, 40-50 hours a week. But I normally target $500 a week / $2,000 a month , after gas/oil around $1,700. I do not drive for Lyft , will be next year.
Rideshare companies have been lowering pay and bonuses over the last few year and longer than that, that’s why you hearing the complaints.
Your income and comments are accurate.
In 2029-2020 up to Covid I average $29 per hour(gross) 
2021 - $29.60
2022- $26 first 3 quarters 
2022- $25 this quarter. 
my exact same strategy but income dropping due to Uberpaying less and offering less on bonuses.

Here’s my 2c worth. 
Join Uber as well, Uber have 68% of the rideshare market, but each city might differ from that figure. If you only doing Lyft then you only getting 3/10 potential rides, you still doing very well considering that.
Stop thinking that you have to “replace” the car, Work a replacement car into your monthly budget, you putting away $1,000 a month anyway so make payments on a car , you going to “drive” the value of whatever you buy into the ground anyway so treat it as a business vehicle that makes you money and not as a personal vehicle that you running up the miles on.
I recommend you buy a Toyota sienna hybrid (over 40mpg) and it’s a 7 seater , that means you save on gas and can also do better paying categories like XL and comfort, they run about $42-$50K new depending on spec and over 72 months you looking at payments of about $650pm. Maybe look for used one at lower price. You now have a higher income potential. After 4 years, the trade to loan break even point you trade it for another vehicle. It’s a work “truck” let it work. Go see tax guy before you buy and find out the best tax stratergy.

burnout is a risk, if you not doing it already drive some early morning 5am -10am go home and then late after noons for 4 hours. You’ll end up with a 9 hour day at over $30 an hour driving with Uber open and Lyft doing XL , comfort on each plus of course the Uber X and the category you current driving now.

On one day of the week run your clock out! Full 12 hours. Technically driving on both platforms you could do more hours. On that 1 day you could earn $400 plus for the day. in Houston Monday, Thursday and Fridays and the busiest , yesterday I did $340 in 12 hours using the split time system I use, my company has Friday as a holiday for us so I worked Uber for 12 hours. 

Remember if you have the better paying categories open at the same time as the cheaper base categories you might see that you not getting many rides in the better paying categories as the base ones are requested at least 80% of the time. At times you can strategize and only have higher paying ones on for a few hours.

doing the above you should earn between $1,500 and $1,700 a week, to earn $2,000 a week (gross) you will have to work 66.6 hours that week at $30ph average, that’s not sustainable but achievable 1 week a month if you work all 7 days of that week and 1 day you run the clock out.


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## Dave_C (6 mo ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation. I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts: During my week out in the Raleigh Durham market I stayed out for about 12 hours per day. Probably taking breaks for about two hours out of those 12 hours. I averaged about $205 take home per day. I put about 300 miles average per day on my vehicle. This includes to and from home to the rideshare area. I achieved a five star rating and had no issues with passengers or anything like that. So I should be good to go. Per my figures I spent about $145 in gas In the seven days I was out I took home $1440. Will I drive that much every single week? Probably not. I feel like I would burn out. So my thoughts are on average I might take home $1100 a week. As a full-time Lyft driver. My plan would be to set aside one weeks pay or roughly $1000 each and every week towards the depreciation of my current vehicle and for the purchase of another one 2 to 3 years from now. Per my calculations I’m gonna put about 90,000 miles per year on my car and it would probably be all but dead in 2.5 years. But even with setting aside $1000 per month for vehicle depreciation and for the purchase of my next vehicle that still leaves me a net income of around $3000 a month. Yes that’s a lot less than I make in trucking but I’m home every day. I can stop and incorporate rideshare driving into my daily life. I can stop and go to the gym and do a workout, I can stop and eat at a nice restaurant, I can go out on a Saturday and drive till midnight and then go to a bar have a few drinks and take an Uber home myself. None of this is possible as a over the road truck driver. So you have no idea how appealing this is to me! Lol… Much less the fact that I’ll be in my own bed every night at home. I further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make incomI further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make income. I sell random things like art, and refinished furniture that I do from time to time. Doing rideshare would allow me to shut down and meet my potential buyers at their disposal and then continue back on with the rideshare anytime I wanted or it became necessary. I hear all this negativity on this form about nobody making any money. But based on my figures above I’m going to net about $3000 a month. After my expenses.Plus probably $1500 a month doing my other income related activities that I can never do being out on the road as a truck driver. What am I missing? I fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have four and I can pay cash for my next bI fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have for and I can pay cash for my next vehicle. thoughts? I’m 60 and doing UberX part time. Did it one month full time with a rental Tesla, just for fun. I feel if you’re going to drive 40+ hours a week you can make more with Uber. And my next thought is to get a cheaper car to use exclusively for ride share. Something clean, safe and gets good mileage. But not a $30k car, simply too expensive for this work and totally unnecessary.


 [/QUOTE]


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## Donna C. (Jan 2, 2018)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


 I think the only thing you are missing is yes you're looking at averages but those averages can change drastically certain holidays and festivals and then you to make a lot more but then sometimes you're gonna make a lot less..


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## Dave_C (6 mo ago)

That is still a lot for the car. I’m doing rideshare in a car that I paid $12,900 for back in 2014. It now has 108,000 miles on it but it’s in excellent shape because I take good care of it. I get many compliments, people are surprised at the age of the mileage. Also it gets over 40 miles per gallon around town. That’s the kind of car you need to use for this work. You really have to watch expenses in business, any business.


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## Robert Dottery (Aug 12, 2021)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I chose not to make it a career. I'm 71, retired, and drive about 30-35 hours a week, Monday thru Friday. I chose not to drive nights so I'm making about $140 a day. I'm not trying to make it a career. The biggest pratfall is failing to realize you're now self-employed and have to keep much better records. Figure out what you can deduct and save all receipts. Go to a good tax person for advice. Pay your quarterly estimates. Don't be surprised if your taxes vary every year, even if you're making roughly the same money every year. My tax guy tells me there are 15,000 pages of tax changes every year. I've been self-employed since January 1987 so for me it's easy. Don't forget to add car maintenance such as monthly oil changes, tires, brakes. It can add up. I love doing it, but I have my eyes open. I hope this helps.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Like any other newbie driver , you are interpolating numbers and projecting something that may or not happen that way . First, you cannot keep up 12 hrs a day forever . Second , you are losing value on your car . Lyft is the worst company to work for . 
Nothing that anyone posted here will change your mind. All newbies think they know better than anyone else’s or that somehow are special or smarter. I guess you’ll only way to see real results is jumping into your car and drive for a month to collect real numbers .


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## Dave_C (6 mo ago)

Hi. I’m 60 and do this part time also. I do think however, if you are willing to work, weekends, and do 60 rides(Uber quest bonus) from Friday through Sunday, you could actually make more money. I did that for a month. I just started very early 6 AM. Not really that hard to get 20 rides in per day. Just make sure they are short rides.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

TexChuck said:


> if you not doing it already drive some early morning 5am -10am go home and then late after noons for 4 hours. You’ll end up with a 9 hour day at over $30 an hour driving with Uber open and Lyft doing XL , comfort on each plus of course the Uber X and the category you current driving now.


The morning rush hour and evening rush hour times are going to very by what city you are working in, it is not the same for every city, for example I live in Fontana San Bernardino County california, Rush Hour started around 3:00 3:30 a.m. why cuz these are mostly warehouse workers they start working around 4:00 or 5:00 a.m. but a higher income area like the upper part of Orange County or Anaheim or something they're rush hour is going to start it maybe 5:00 or 6:00 a.m. why cuz these people are going to retail stores they're going to business offices they are 9 to 5 workers,


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## Bnerdy (Jul 11, 2015)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I seen some good and bad points on here. I do agree that you’re not taking into account those slow months and the fact that you can be deactivated with little to no say. If you’re going to set aside a 1000 for your car, why not just rent one through Lyft or Uber (if it’s a thing in your market)? Also, net 3000 a month, why not be a greeter at Walmart or something like that. Not being funny, but it will probably net the same amount, per month, and not wear out your car. You are saving no money for retirement and if you get sick, you she no pro or vacation days. Ride share was never designed as a full time gig and they show you why, year are year, as they make changes to screw drivers over. Some drivers don’t take the hint and they take these cuts and stay. Tell me any job that cuts pay and gives you zero benefits and people still stay, only gig work. That really says something. I drove full time while I was in grad school and I was happy to stop. I also have been doing this part time (very last time) for over 7 years. I used to drive a bit more when the pay was good but it is now crap to drive. So, imo, you are better off finding a local job or something relaxing. Oh and driving a brand new car for rideshare, seems so financially reckless to me. I think a lot of drivers need to take a few accounting courses if you are going to do this full time or hire one.


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

elelegido said:


> Buying a used car is a gamble. The concern is the probability of big bills with an old car, which people weigh up against the certainly of big depreciation but much lower probability of big bills with a new car. Some gamblers use a calculation called "expected value" in order to evaluate whether a gamble is worth taking, and this concept can be applied to buying used cars. It involves analysing and comparing the probabilities of winning and the financial benefits of winning (in this case paying the lowest overall cost (low depreciation and no repair bills)) with the probabilities of losing (paying the highest overall cost), and all of the various outcomes between these two extremes.
> 
> Some assumptions have to be made around the risks involved. I assume that the probability of spending $0 on repairs on an old Camry Hybrid while running it over three years and 120,000 miles to be around 30%. I accept that I got lucky with my old Camry to spend $0 in repairs on it during the time I used it and I believe that my experience of zero repairs will not be the same for all people who buy similar vehicles. I assume that the likelihood of spending $5,000 on repairs on such a vehicle over the three years would be around 50%. The chance of spending $10,000 on repairs is estimated at 10%, $15,000 on repairs at 7% and $20,000 at 3%. To work out the expected value of all of these costs, we multiply each spend by its probability and add up all the results, giving this:
> 
> ...


This advice is spot on.
DO NOT US A BRAND NEW VEHICLE.
I bought a 2009 Saturn for $6,400 and drove it for 6 years.
I put 285,000 more miles on it before if died.
My depreciation was just over 2 cents a mile.
Your cost per mile is closer to 12.5 cents a mile. (200,000 miles, $32 000 - $7,000).

The one thing that you are correct on is the flexibility that comes with ride share that nobody talks about.


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## fasteddy (Aug 31, 2015)

Some thing nobody on these forms talks about. Use a higher end ride to get more pay. For example, if you have a third row seat car you make 60% more and you’re just as busy as UberX. Guys who are making over 2000 a week Do Not drive UberX just so you know. And those same guys are not on these forms. We do not have time to bullshit on these forms we’re making money. So get a car with third row seat that has good fuel economy. And then eventually level up to getting a black on black car. For example When you do black lux you make four dollars per mile. Whereas with regular Uber X you barely make a dollar per mile. The higher end car the more you make. UberXL comfort and select. And Lyft black and black Lux. That’s where you want to be to make 2000 per week. Very very few people know this. It’s taken me years to figure this out as well. Hope that helps. Good luck.


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## cramifluous (Jul 4, 2015)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...



2022 Rav 4 fuelmpg 27 city/35 hwy32avg2.750per gallonCost per mile:0.086Per weekPer Dayper yearMiles2100300109200Hours70103640(per day with "2 hour break", 12 total without)Gas, $$145.000.069gas $/mile (note lower than .086 above)Maintenance$145.00$0.10minimal maintenance cost per mileDepreciation$179.49($25000 value loss in 3 years as stated)total expenses$469.49Earnings$1,100.00Net income$630.51Per hour$9.01


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I dont think of rideshare as a career. Its a really good supplement to another income but not a career. "Career" to me, implies starting at the bottom and working up, or as Merriam Webster says, a career is* "*_a field for or pursuit of consecutive progressive achievement especially in public, professional, or business life"_



So to call rideshare a career requires an answer to this question....where are you gonna go from here?. 

Ive met a number of Uber drivers that have progressed from Uber driver to owners of a their own airport transportation business. They started with uber, then started offering private rides to their Uber passengers, and when it came time to replace their vehicle, bought black Chevy Suburbans. They continue to do Uber to fill in between their regular customers, and as a source of new customers, ,,,,,, Thats a career


I would expect that a real career would pay enough to provide health care and a retirement. Your $3000/month wont do that

Dont get me wrong, I do Uber and I net $3000 a month, by pretty much using the same formula as you outline So I expect you can do the same, but its not a career.


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## PaulRivers (2 mo ago)

Other Considerations

1. Health Insurance?
2. Car Insurance situation remains murky whether you're supposed to carry commercial insurance and whether you'll be covered if there's an accident.
3. Be sure to not let your CDL expire, I think you need to renew the medical part every year? You don't need to keep driving to keep it from expiring but there's something you need to do.
4. You're not saving any 401k for retirement, dunno if this is important for you or not.

Rav4 is a very reliable vehicle, Hybrid would be better but whatcha gonna do. Probably the best vehicle for rideshare if you want to drive upright and comfortable as the driver. There are smaller vehicles but you're more cramped.

Sometimes it's good just to mix it up from time to time and try something different.


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## UnhappySaskatoonDriver (Apr 27, 2019)

elelegido said:


> What you're missing is that using a new vehicle for rideshare and planning to replace it with another new one in three years' time is a terrible, terrible business model and an obscene waste of money.
> 
> Every dollar saved in expense is worth precisely one extra dollar in profit. No more, no less. So you want to pare all expenses to the bone, including and especially depreciation. I bought an old Camry Hybrid for $3,900 and put an additional 130,000 miles on it over the three years of rideshare I did with it. It needed no repairs during that time. None. And when I was done with it, it was worth $2,500. That would have been $1,400 of deprecation. Compare and contrast with $30,000+ depreciation on using a new vehicle over that period. I added $28,600 to my profit for no extra effort or work on my part. Work smarter, _not_ harder.
> 
> ...


Right.

A new vehicle could be a year's income gone. And then income tax too.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

fasteddy said:


> Some thing nobody on these forms talks about. Use a higher end ride to get more pay. For example, if you have a third row seat car you make 60% more and you’re just as busy as UberX. Guys who are making over 2000 a week Do Not drive UberX just so you know. And those same guys are not on these forms. We do not have time to bullshit on these forms we’re making money. So get a car with third row seat that has good fuel economy. And then eventually level up to getting a black on black car. For example When you do black lux you make four dollars per mile. Whereas with regular Uber X you barely make a dollar per mile. The higher end car the more you make. UberXL comfort and select. And Lyft black and black Lux. That’s where you want to be to make 2000 per week. Very very few people know this. It’s taken me years to figure this out as well. Hope that helps. Good luck.


In Rdu xl rates are about 30%higher than x and there is no such thing as black. We have comfort but it's a pain in the ass. Small premium and 10 minutes wait before cancel. 2k a week would be 50 to 60 hours on a great week, 80 on a slow one.


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## tommiezejeski (20 d ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation. I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts: During my week out in the Raleigh Durham market I stayed out for about 12 hours per day. Probably taking breaks for about two hours out of those 12 hours. I averaged about $205 take home per day. I put about 300 miles average per day on my vehicle. This includes to and from home to the rideshare area. I achieved a five star rating and had no issues with passengers or anything like that. So I should be good to go. Per my figures I spent about $145 in gas In the seven days I was out I took home $1440. Will I drive that much every single week? Probably not. I feel like I would burn out. So my thoughts are on average I might take home $1100 a week. As a full-time Lyft driver. My plan would be to set aside one weeks pay or roughly $1000 each and every week towards the depreciation of my current vehicle and for the purchase of another one 2 to 3 years from now. Per my calculations I’m gonna put about 90,000 miles per year on my car and it would probably be all but dead in 2.5 years. But even with setting aside $1000 per month for vehicle depreciation and for the purchase of my next vehicle that still leaves me a net income of around $3000 a month. Yes that’s a lot less than I make in trucking but I’m home every day. I can stop and incorporate rideshare driving into my daily life. I can stop and go to the gym and do a workout, I can stop and eat at a nice restaurant, I can go out on a Saturday and drive till midnight and then go to a bar have a few drinks and take an Uber home myself. None of this is possible as a over the road truck driver. So you have no idea how appealing this is to me! Lol… Much less the fact that I’ll be in my own bed every night at home. I further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make incomI further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make income. I sell random things like art, and refinished furniture that I do from time to time. Doing rideshare would allow me to shut down and meet my potential buyers at their disposal and then continue back on with the rideshare anytime I wanted or it became necessary. I hear all this negativity on this form about nobody making any money. But based on my figures above I’m going to net about $3000 a month. After my expenses.Plus probably $1500 a month doing my other income related activities that I can never do being out on the road as a truck driver. What am I missing? I fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have four and I can pay cash for my next bI fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have for and I can pay cash for my next vehicle. thoughts?


 I'm retired now but I used to analyze the cost of operating vehicles when I was working it was my job with the current price of gas it's costing you about 60 cents per mile to operate your vehicle when everything is considered at that rate you're spending $180 a week to make 205 not too good of a proposition I drove for Lift myself for about 10 months then I had an accident where a deer ran into me and my car was totaled only then I found out that lifts insurance is very poor such as a $2,500 deductible and no reimbursement for rental car while your car is being fixed if you want to use your own insurance you're going to have to get a rider and that's going to cost a lot more than what you're paying now for your insurance I wrote a short book on the cost of driving for Lyft is available on Amazon I forget the exact title but you'll find it under my name Thomas Miezejeski


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## Rideshare Mike (1 mo ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I see you've given this some thought—more than most drivers. Let me preface this by saying I'm a whistleblower and exposé writer doing four years blogging and writing about both Lyft and Über for my upcoming book.

Here's my basic conclusions. 

#1 you are choosing to work for a deadly, predatory, and illegal company, especially if you are in California. There is no way you're going to change the nature of an evil corporation. It is what it is. Why give them your time and money? That's just wrong on so many levels.

#2. Your calculations are off. You are not making much money, even less than you think, that is if you think your time is worth anything.

#3. Because Lyft and Über criminally incentivize crazy and sleepy driving, the job is extremely dangerous for yourself, other drivers on the road, and bystanders. The night you're a little drowsy trying to get that last ride you need for a bonus, is the night you run over somebody else's child. You will never get over that and Lyft and Über corporate will not really give a darn. As a contractor in their eyes, you are totally expendable as long as there's plenty of suckers willing to do your job. You'll suffer on your own. At certain hours in certain places, even if you're not driving crazy or sleepy, the other rideshare drivers will be. You're on the road with them in a vehicle that's much smaller than your truck. It is not a career. The more you know, the wiser you get, the more they will use tricks to get rid of you. Some are built right into their "top secret" algorithms. They're like a casino. A lot of folks love to go gambling, but the casino holds the algorithms. The numbers are always in their favor, as they are with Lyft and Über, with the exception that they can't afford all the legal settlements and insurance. That's where the spread between what you take home and what they charge passengers comes in. Look at their stock history in your Apple iPhone.

That should be enough for a logical or sane man. There are many other driving jobs that are better if you apply for them. Too many drivers are lazy and don't bother. They have poor man's syndrome. They don't believe that they deserve better based on the limitations that are obvious to themselves. Defensiveness is all about their fragile egos, despite the fact that their spouses, families and friends are trying to tell them that the job doesn't pencil out.

Almost every negative word in the English language doesn't adequately describe Lyft and Über corporate boards of directors, Darth Zimmer and Darth Dara. They are pure evil and should be deported from the United States to the middle of the Pacific Ocean. 

In short, you are constantly being conned by their BS and intentionally long and difficult to understand contracts that at best leave you in arbitration with their arbitrators. The churn rate is about 3 to 6 months when most drivers figure it out. Hopefully, you're brighter than that. ;-)

This truly is a "dead" end job. Do not trust or rely upon Über or Lyft for anything. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.


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## Uber Leaver (8 mo ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation. I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts: During my week out in the Raleigh Durham market I stayed out for about 12 hours per day. Probably taking breaks for about two hours out of those 12 hours. I averaged about $205 take home per day. I put about 300 miles average per day on my vehicle. This includes to and from home to the rideshare area. I achieved a five star rating and had no issues with passengers or anything like that. So I should be good to go. Per my figures I spent about $145 in gas In the seven days I was out I took home $1440. Will I drive that much every single week? Probably not. I feel like I would burn out. So my thoughts are on average I might take home $1100 a week. As a full-time Lyft driver. My plan would be to set aside one weeks pay or roughly $1000 each and every week towards the depreciation of my current vehicle and for the purchase of another one 2 to 3 years from now. Per my calculations I’m gonna put about 90,000 miles per year on my car and it would probably be all but dead in 2.5 years. But even with setting aside $1000 per month for vehicle depreciation and for the purchase of my next vehicle that still leaves me a net income of around $3000 a month. Yes that’s a lot less than I make in trucking but I’m home every day. I can stop and incorporate rideshare driving into my daily life. I can stop and go to the gym and do a workout, I can stop and eat at a nice restaurant, I can go out on a Saturday and drive till midnight and then go to a bar have a few drinks and take an Uber home myself. None of this is possible as a over the road truck driver. So you have no idea how appealing this is to me! Lol… Much less the fact that I’ll be in my own bed every night at home. I further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make incomI further plan to incorporate other things that I do to make income. I sell random things like art, and refinished furniture that I do from time to time. Doing rideshare would allow me to shut down and meet my potential buyers at their disposal and then continue back on with the rideshare anytime I wanted or it became necessary. I hear all this negativity on this form about nobody making any money. But based on my figures above I’m going to net about $3000 a month. After my expenses.Plus probably $1500 a month doing my other income related activities that I can never do being out on the road as a truck driver. What am I missing? I fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have four and I can pay cash for my next bI fully understand that my brand new Toyota RAV4 is probably gonna have 250,000 miles on it in three years from now. I’m probably gonna be able to sell it for about $7000. But I’ll have at least $25,000 in cash sitting in a separate account plus the $7000 that I’m selling the one I have for and I can pay cash for my next vehicle. thoughts?


 The first week is always the best. down hill after that.


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## tom503 (20 d ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I like your plan. Mine is similar to yours but with smaller numbers. I have Social Security, while you have "other incomes". I'm good with $500/week gross rideshare income, and my rent is very cheap. The flexibility is as rosy as you are painting it to be in words. IN CASE THIS MATTERS: I was able to buy a new car twice, but only because of an inheritance. My credit rating is ZILCH. And the only reason I got $10K for my 2015 minivan with 125K miles was becase of the current high demand. That may change by the time you are ready to switch to the next new car.
BEST STRATEGY: First, understand where and when all the best times to drive is. Of course, that will show you the most bang for buck. Second, I bought my minivan (an upgrade from my Nissan Versa Note) because of the opportunity, and the chance to do UberXL. Uber XL was not a great strategy in Mobile because there is no premium pickup for XL. Lyft, however, does not pay Premium pickups, so bargain-hunting riders don't choose LyftXL as the bargain ride.
If you are driving in a high touristy-demanding area, like another driver in this area, you may decide that a LyftXL - capable van will gain you a lot more dough, as my Facebook friend in this region has done. HOWEVER, he is supporting a wife and kids, and you and I are not .
If Uber will agree to have you (not everybody gets that green light) Uber can fill in any gaps in your earning time, too. Compare rates, and meet up with other drivers in your area for more personalized insights. Facebook is filled with national and local groups devoted to the industry. Just Google Uber and Lyft drivers in Raleigh Durham.

Safe travels!


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> Like any other newbie driver , you are interpolating numbers and projecting something that may or not happen that way . First, you cannot keep up 12 hrs a day forever . Second , you are losing value on your car . Lyft is the worst company to work for .
> Nothing that anyone posted here will change your mind. All newbies think they know better than anyone else’s or that somehow are special or smarter. I guess you’ll only way to see real results is jumping into your car and drive for a month to collect real numbers .


I do Lyft only lately. It’s all about tier and the market. Driving Lyft Lux for me is way better than driving X/Comfort.

Working 12 hours a day depends on if those are fully active hours or not. You definitely can’t sustainably work 12 hours a day if you are constantly busy like on Uber X, but you can if you are doing Lux or Black.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Qdx said:


> I do Lyft only lately. It’s all about tier and the market. Driving Lyft Lux for me is way better than driving X/Comfort.
> 
> Working 12 hours a day depends on if those are fully active hours or not. You definitely can’t sustainably work 12 hours a day if you are constantly busy like on Uber X, but you can if you are doing Lux or Black.


I know for a fact that you need to walk your own road to understand this . Driving rideshare is a completely waste of time . No matter how smart you think you are , the numbers are against you and in the end , you’ll end up on the losing.
Thousand of drivers like yourself try and later find out the cruel truth. Let me be clear , the game is rigged against you and let you breath a few minutes to came back and do it all over again . Your small gains are just an ilusión and the post keep getting change.


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## ridewithpeterson (Jun 5, 2018)

I read that a career is what you do with your life. A lot of who we are as people is associated with the choices we make. What a person chooses to do with their time and resources tends to determine how the world accepts or rejects you. I read a quote by Dr. King that strongly resonates with me: If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets so well that all the hosts in heaven


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## ridewithpeterson (Jun 5, 2018)

“If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.

That anyone thinks disrespectfully of your career choice should not concern you because only you are responsible for your happiness in this life. Only you are accountable to yourself for taking care of yourself. You are contributing to society in a meaningful way. Transportation professionals are vital to society and it is disgraceful that people take them for granted. The fact that the app companies pay below poverty wages and the riders expect a new Phantom with champagne and crumpets for every trip is something you must resolve for yourself and be content with.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> I know for a fact that you need to walk your own road to understand this . Driving rideshare is a completely waste of time . No matter how smart you think you are , the numbers are against you and in the end , you’ll end up on the losing.
> Thousand of drivers like yourself try and later find out the cruel truth. Let me be clear , the game is rigged against you and let you breath a few minutes to came back and do it all over again . Your small gains are just an ilusión and the post keep getting change.


Small gains = paying all my bills while averaging almost $2/mile. I don’t know how expensive you think it is to operate a vehicle, but it’s below that. 

I understand that it isn’t great for everyone in every tier or market. However, just because it doesn’t work out for you, you shouldn’t try to invalidate drivers who have a better experience doing it than you.


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## ridewithpeterson (Jun 5, 2018)

Rideshare is a losing situation because drivers are not able to scale theselves to higher income levels. The corpotations can scale themselves to thousands, millions and billions of transactions, millions of shares in the stock, but the drivers only have one person and one vehicle. The corporations have made it legal to transfer the costs and depreciation of the vehicles onto the drivers. The riders have transferred the costs of private vehicle ownership to the drivers. It feels great that the bills are paid, but when all the wealth and fruits of labor are poured into a vehicle that has no value and your time and physical has contributed to the wealth of others, the reality of who unwise working for rideshare is will become painfully obvious. I drank the blue piss for a long time.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Atavar said:


> The only fly in the ointment is that for a lot of people having a second vehicle in and of itself is a huge investment. You now have a second insurance payment, a second annual license fee, possibly a second car payment with interest, a second set of maintenance costs, a second set of tires, and you need another parking space.


Insurance gives you a two car discount.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Discdom said:


> Insurance gives you a two car discount.


Even with discount two insurance cost more than one insurance.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Atavar said:


> Even with discount two insurance cost more than one insurance.


The only person that would not buy 2 cars for rideshare is the person that can’t afford it.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Discdom said:


> The only person that would not buy 2 cars for rideshare is the person that can’t afford it.


Well Doh!


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

ridewithpeterson said:


> Rideshare is a losing situation because drivers are not able to scale theselves to higher income levels. The corpotations can scale themselves to thousands, millions and billions of transactions, millions of shares in the stock, but the drivers only have one person and one vehicle. The corporations have made it legal to transfer the costs and depreciation of the vehicles onto the drivers. The riders have transferred the costs of private vehicle ownership to the drivers. It feels great that the bills are paid, but when all the wealth and fruits of labor are poured into a vehicle that has no value and your time and physical has contributed to the wealth of others, the reality of who unwise working for rideshare is will become painfully obvious. I drank the blue piss for a long time.


Any gig involves trading your labor for income. It all comes down to whether or not you are making enough income to justify the time you invest and to cover the cost associated with operating a vehicle. I’ve already made the cost of my vehicle, so I don’t know what your are going on about.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Qdx said:


> Small gains = paying all my bills while averaging almost $2/mile. I don’t know how expensive you think it is to operate a vehicle, but it’s below that.
> 
> I understand that it isn’t great for everyone in every tier or market. However, just because it doesn’t work out for you, you shouldn’t try to invalidate drivers who have a better experience doing it than you.


I am past trying to convince anyone . You already all big boys and no one will change your mind .I been where most of you are. Almost 7 years ,done close to 20k trips using 3 diferent cars .Many hours sitting behind the wheel with some success on times on bringing decent wage. But with time and experience , you all need to learn to detach and see this gig objectively. Nobody like to admit being wrong , not even to yourself. And some prefer to never admit defeat .Smart people usually try , fro time to time , analyze their decisions to make corrections The point that many like you missing is that the rideshare gig system Is set up on a way that wear you out and exploit you over and over with that ilusión that you ll be able to reach a prize some how that neverr came . No matter how you put it , running pax at .60 cents a mile or less does not allow you to make a profit to continue driving .Yes , Thee is times you manage to raise that number but eventually , the companies will find the way to screw you . Their survival depends on cheap labour. No matter how gifted you think you are , the apps will find a way to screw your pay .


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> I am past trying to convince anyone . You already all big boys and no one will change your mind .
> I been where most of you are. Almost 7 years . And close to 20k trips . 3 cars over that 7 years. May hours sitting behind the wheel with some success on times on bringing decent wage. But within time and experience , you need to learn to detach and see this gig objectively. Nobody like to admit being wrong , not even to yourself. And some prefer to
> Never admit defeat . The point that many of you missing is that the rideshare gig system
> Is set up on a way that wears you out and exploit you over and over with that ilusión that you ll be able to reach a prize some how that neverr came . No matter how you put it , running pax at .60 cents a mile or less does not allow you to make a profit to continue driving .Yes , Thee is tomes you manage to raise that number but eventually , the companies will find the way to get ñyou in check.No matter how gifted you think you are , the apps will find a way to screw your pay .


I don’t drive passengers for .60 cents a mile though. Like I said, I do Lux. Over 90% of the trip requests I receive pay a decent rate. The only tricky part about Lux is getting enough trips, but I’ve been doing it long enough to know when and where to drive to consistently make good money every week.

You need to accept that we don’t all work in the same market, in the same exact areas, at the same times of day, and in the same vehicle classes, so our experiences are going to be different. It’s not the best gig in the world, but it’s not the worst either.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Qdx said:


> I don’t drive passengers for .60 cents a mile though. Like I said, I do Lux. Over 90% of the trip requests I receive pay a decent rate. The only tricky part about Lux is getting enough trips, but I’ve been doing it long enough to know when and where to drive to consistently make good money every week.
> 
> You need to accept that we don’t all work in the same market, in the same exact areas, at the same times of day, and in the same vehicle classes, so our experiences are going to be different. It’s not the best gig in the world, but it’s not the worst either.


I don’t need to accept anything , pal . I am telling you what yourself will find out the hard way . You are the one out there now . The word “ insanity” sound familiar ? Look it up . On my many years driving , I meet a lot of smart and dumb drivers. People that really figure it out how to squeeze money from the system but I also , saw the system adapt and slowly close most of the loopholes that made this gig possible . I get that they are many drivers , that for many reason feel they have to continue doing this . I am telling you, MOST OF YOU DON’T . There are better alternatives instead than continue to enable these companies to exploit you just because some of you don’t want to admit the hard truth . At the end of the day , you guys do wgst you want to do . I am just someone that walk your path and call tell you what you’ll sooner or later will face . What you do with my advice is up to you .


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> I don’t need to accept anything , pal . I am telling you what yourself will find out the hard way . You are the one out there now . The word “ insanity” sound familiar ? Look it up . On my many years driving , I meet a lot of smart and dumb drivers. People that really figure it out how to squeeze money from the system but I also , saw the system adapt and slowly close most of the loopholes that made this gig possible . I get that they are many drivers , that for many reason feel they have to continue doing this . I am telling you, MOST OF YOU DON’T . There are better alternatives instead than continue to enable these companies to exploit you just because some of you don’t want to admit the hard truth . At the end of the day , you guys do wgst you want to do . I am just someone that walk your path and call tell you what you’ll sooner or later will face . What you do with my advice is up to you .


There’s absolutely no reason to take your advice when you advice is clearly self serving. You’re not actually interested in other people’s experiences or situations. You just want to massage your own ego.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Uber/Lyft are just not worth doing.

what should you be paid for a 45 minute 44 mile trip?

uber CHARGES $64 for X to go to the airport from my house,

45 minute 44 miles away.

the $5.00 off for the per trip fees.

$59.

Take 30-60%of what’s left for the rest of Ubers take.

what’s left is $25-41

assuming the closest driver comes 15 minutes to get to me. (Which is the estimate)

your looking $25-40 for 50-55 miles driven.


that’s the math…

I can only make that math work with a stolen car and stolen gasoline.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uber/Lyft are just not worth doing.
> 
> what should you be paid for a 45 minute 44 mile trip?
> 
> ...


Your post here and your last comment really amuses me, you're basically talking about a ride that will pay you 30 35 40 plus bucks or more per hour, your last comment about a stolen car and stolen gas, so you're basically saying even if your car was free if it was given to you you won it on a game show, the gas would still be an issue, you know why you're comment amuses me, because I've always speculated that some of you guys who run all these numbers, you basically think your car should be free that your total expenses for doing Uber and Lyft should be absolutely nothing, your car is now a business tool it's like a mobile office even someone running a kiosk in a mall who's making not a great living but they're doing okay is paying money for that space to a mall it's not free, so it's not free for you to run your car doing Uber and lyft, I guess I'm going to do some of my own numbers and post what I think people should really be looking at as the expenses of doing Uber and lyft, for example someone who's freaking running their car 60% Uber and 40% personal every tire change every oil change and all the car depreciation is not due to Uber and lyft, if you're running your car for example as I say again 40% personal 60% uber, your insurance should not even be a factor because no matter what job you have driving that car you still have to pay insurUber,

The way you guys talk about car depreciation as an example, you talk about the car depreciation as if you can buy a $20,000 car today sit it in your driveway and absolutely not drive it at all and are maybe just drive it 12,000 Mi per year and you had the car for 5 years, that you can still sell it for $20,000 if you bought the car new it lost appreciation as soon as it left a lot, even if you bought it used it's going to have depreciation even if you put no miles on it after 4 or 5 years it's not going to be worth what you paid for it, so what I'm saying is why are you taking 100% of the depreciation and applying all of that to Uber and Lyft, I'm done most of you that run these numbers you make my head spin.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> I am past trying to convince anyone . You already all big boys and no one will change your mind .I been where most of you are. Almost 7 years ,done close to 20k trips using 3 diferent cars .Many hours sitting behind the wheel with some success on times on bringing decent wage. But with time and experience , you all need to learn to detach and see this gig objectively. Nobody like to admit being wrong , not even to yourself. And some prefer to never admit defeat .Smart people usually try , fro time to time , analyze their decisions to make corrections The point that many like you missing is that the rideshare gig system Is set up on a way that wear you out and exploit you over and over with that ilusión that you ll be able to reach a prize some how that neverr came . No matter how you put it , running pax at .60 cents a mile or less does not allow you to make a profit to continue driving .Yes , Thee is times you manage to raise that number but eventually , the companies will find the way to screw you . Their survival depends on cheap labour. No matter how gifted you think you are , the apps will find a way to screw your pay .


We don't all Drive the same class of car and we don't all Drive basic Uber and basic lyft, I drive Uber comfort and lyft uxury, on holidays and in the mornings and high demand I get paid well I don't have to take every s*** trip that comes along which means I also don't have to put as many miles on my car as you do, and I make more in tips than you probably do, the amount of tips you get is based on your professionalism and I'm sorry to say it's also based on your car, I drove the Tesla Model 3 for 2 months I can tell you I got more tips in that Tesla Model 3 that I get in my Lincoln MKZ even though I'm still tipped well.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

tommiezejeski said:


> I'm retired now but I used to analyze the cost of operating vehicles when I was working it was my job with the current price of gas it's costing you about 60 cents per mile to operate your vehicle when everything is considered at that rate you're spending $180 a week to make 205 not too good of a proposition I drove for Lift myself for about 10 months then I had an accident where a deer ran into me and my car was totaled only then I found out that lifts insurance is very poor such as a $2,500 deductible and no reimbursement for rental car while your car is being fixed if you want to use your own insurance you're going to have to get a rider and that's going to cost a lot more than what you're paying now for your insurance I wrote a short book on the cost of driving for Lyft is available on Amazon I forget the exact title but you'll find it under my name Thomas Miezejeski


It doesnt cost 60 cents a mile to operate my car. Even when I drove a Ford Explorer at 20 mpg and gas was close to $5.my operating expenses were less than 60 cents a mile Depreciation is not an operating expense, but even if you count that my car was fully depreciated, I had averaged 5 cents a mile for repairs and maintenance and another 5 cents for insurance so just 35 cents a mile

I have a different car now a hybrid that gets 45 mpg and gas has gone down to under $3/gal so under 7 cents per mile. I expect maintenance and repairs to be the same as the explorer (even factoring in a new battery) and also insurance.. so now my operating expenses are 17 cents a mile. even though its not an operating expense I do have a car payment to pay, so I should count that which adds about 10 cents a mile so now my expenses are 27 cents a mile

Clearly this is not a get rich thing nor is a career, But getting back to the OP; If $3000 a month does it for you Uber works


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

oldfart said:


> It doesnt cost 60 cents a mile to operate my car. Even when I drove a Ford Explorer at 20 mpg and gas was close to $5.my operating expenses were less than 60 cents a mile Depreciation is not an operating expense, but even if you count that my car was fully depreciated, I had averaged 5 cents a mile for repairs and maintenance and another 5 cents for insurance so just 35 cents a mile
> 
> I have a different car now a hybrid that gets 45 mpg and gas has gone down to under $3/gal so under 7 cents per mile. I expect maintenance and repairs to be the same as the explorer (even factoring in a new battery) and also insurance.. so now my operating expenses are 17 cents a mile. even though its not an operating expense I do have a car payment to pay, so I should count that which adds about 10 cents a mile so now my expenses are 27 cents a mile
> 
> Clearly this is not a get rich thing nor is a career, But getting back to the OP; If $3000 a month does it for you Uber works


Everyone talks about the per mile cost of operation like that’s a target number. If you meet that number you are working for free. Whatever that number is add $1/mile to it so you include some profit. Without profit there is no point in doing it. 
I don’t know about you guys but I can’t afford to drive for 25¢/mile after costs. At that rate you would have to drive 400 miles to make $100.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> We don't all Drive the same class of car and we don't all Drive basic Uber and basic lyft, I drive Uber comfort and lyft uxury, on holidays and in the mornings and high demand I get paid well I don't have to take every s*** trip that comes along which means I also don't have to put as many miles on my car as you do, and I make more in tips than you probably do, the amount of tips you get is based on your professionalism and I'm sorry to say it's also based on your car, I drove the Tesla Model 3 for 2 months I can tell you I got more tips in that Tesla Model 3 that I get in my Lincoln MKZ even though I'm still tipped well.
> View attachment 689903


People ask you for advice but they really don’t want your advice . They want confirmation and when don’t get it ,they start finding excuses how their special abilities some how will change the outcome . I hear hat so many times. “I drive Lux” , • I don’t take the bad trips” , only part time “ No matter . The outcome at the end is always the same because the whole rideshare is based in a lie .Some of guys are lying to yourself , but I guess if that make you happy so be it .
You wrongly asumes I still drive , or I drive Basic , or I don’t make any tip , all your assumptions are wrong.
I am conveying my experience and the ones for many smart drivers I know , that they WROTE THE MANUAL on rideshare when it wasnt one . We walk your path before you . Most of us know every corner and every trick that you can imagine and the conclusions are still the same. At these rates , driving rideshare is not a viable or sound financial decision . Period .
Good luck to you , you’ll learn it sooner or later as you ll learn that 2+2=4 . You can wish to be 5 because you are special or smarter but in the end you’ll realize that all of that do not matter and the result continue to be 4. My best advice , and all are free to take it , is value your time like your biggest treasure . Do not spend it follow U/L on a rabbit hole because is all an illusion . You’ll end up without money , a car with excess mileage and a lot of your life wasted .


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Atavar said:


> Everyone talks about the per mile cost of operation like that’s a target number. If you meet that number you are working for free. Whatever that number is add $1/mile to it so you include some profit. Without profit there is no point in doing it.
> I don’t know about you guys but I can’t afford to drive for 25¢/mile after costs. At that rate you would have to drive 400 miles to make $100.


If you're in a lesser Market and to some extent even in a higher market, you can't have a car that only qualifies for basic Uber and basic lyft you will not make very much money you need to have a car that qualifies for the higher platform and you need to learn and drive and be professional and people will give you higher tips that is a fact I'm not even going to entertain an argument on that.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> People ask you for advice but they really don’t want your advice . They want confirmation and when don’t get it ,they start finding excuses how their special abilities some how will change the outcome . I hear hat so many times. “I drive Lux” , • I don’t take the bad trips” , only part time “ No matter . The outcome at the end is always the same because the whole rideshare is based in a lie .Some of guys are lying to yourself , but I guess if that make you happy so be it .
> You wrongly asumes I still drive , or I drive Basic , or I don’t make any tip , all your assumptions are wrong.
> I am conveying my experience and the ones for many smart drivers I know , that they WROTE THE MANUAL on rideshare when it wasnt one . We walk your path before you . Most of us know every corner and every trick that you can imagine and the conclusions are still the same. At these rates , driving rideshare is not a viable or sound financial decision . Period .
> Good luck to you , you’ll learn it sooner or later as you ll learn that 2+2=4 . You can wish to be 5 because you are special or smarter but in the end you’ll realize that all of that do not matter and the result continue to be 4. My best advice , and all are free to take it , is value your time like your biggest treasure . Do not spend it follow U/L on a rabbit hole because is all an illusion . You’ll end up without money , a car with excess mileage and a lot of your life wasted .


First of all I didn't say you are others don't get tips, I said you make more tips when you drive a nicer car and you are professional and know how to treat passengers, as far as my car getting depreciation no s*** Sherlock yes it gets depreciation but my car is a 60 to 70% business tool, it's like any office space or kiosks in the mall it cost money you can't operate for free.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> If you're in a lesser Market and to some extent even in a higher market, you can't have a car that only qualifies for basic Uber and basic lyft you will not make very much money you need to have a car that qualifies for the higher platform and you need to learn and drive and be professional and people will give you higher tips that is a fact I'm not even going to entertain an argument on that.


You are not wrong. If you cannot afford a suitable car and/or if you can’t house a suitable car you are not going to be successful. 
Catering to lower middle class and studii for clients is not going to be very profitable. We need to raise our sights.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

painfreepc said:


> If you're in a lesser Market and to some extent even in a higher market, you can't have a car that only qualifies for basic Uber and basic lyft you need to have a car that qualifies for the higher platform and you need to learn and drive and be professional and people will give you higher tips that is a fact I'm not even going to entertain an argument on that.



I think the key words in your post are *you will not make very much money *with basic uber and lyft, and thats exactly right, but not very much money is much different than no money as some have said here

I agree that if you are making this your career, you will have to move up to black car service, sooner or later, and I would argue, buy commercial insurance and develop your own clientele. But if all you want or need is a side hustle, Uber X works fine


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

oldfart said:


> I think the key words in your post are *you will not make very much money *with basic uber and lyft, and thats exactly right, but not very much money is much different than no money as some have said here
> 
> I agree that if you are making this your career, you will have to do black car service, and I would argue, buy commercial insurance and develop your own clientele.


I plan to do exactly that in 2023 get commercial insurance and my TCP license and start doing my own clientele and still do Uber and lyft, because the outrageous prices that they are charging customers as a private driver you can easily undercut them, I was doing my own thing driving taxi in the Inland Empire because in that market the taxi companies allow you to do what you want and I drove a nice taxi, I even had a website that had pictures of my car and I had a live location indicator on my website people knew exactly where I was so when they called me and I told them could pick them up in 20-30 minutes an hour they know I wasn't lying cuz they could see exactly where I was located and I had about 10 drivers that I networked with because one person you cannot serve everyone and you cannot be telling customers that call you that you are not available they may call you back one time you tell him again you're not available they're not going to call you back, I've seen others on here saying they're going to do their own thing and I mentioned the networking thing and they tell me they don't need that hey go for it if you haven't done this before on your own without dispatch without Uber and Lyft good luck to you without having some drivers they can call to help out, if they get a good run and picking up at 4:00 a.m. and get another call for 5:00 a.m. they going to tell them no, what if the one for 5:00 a.m. was better than the one for 4:00 a.m. give the Lesser call to another driver, still a good trip but you want to get the greatest one but what the hell do I know I've only been doing this for 25 years sorry I'm getting on the soapbox let me go now bye.


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

TexChuck said:


> The good thing is you have worked your city and know your earning “potential” I’m in Houston age 57 and only drive Uber X with 2015 Toyota Camry. I’ve been driving since 2019 as a 2nd job, mileage was 90k when I started and now on 215k and going strong, I have a full time job. Sometimes I drive as much as full time, 40-50 hours a week. But I normally target $500 a week / $2,000 a month , after gas/oil around $1,700. I do not drive for Lyft , will be next year.
> Rideshare companies have been lowering pay and bonuses over the last few year and longer than that, that’s why you hearing the complaints.
> Your income and comments are accurate.
> In 2029-2020 up to Covid I average $29 per hour(gross)
> ...


Good stuff…I’m in a similar situation. I simply enjoy getting out part time and making money for my motorcycle addiction. I would, however, caution those folks that want to do this full time:

1. Simply bad for your health to be sitting 10-12 hours in your car everyday. But I guess the same could be said for over the road trucking.

2. Lack of job security due to false accusations, accidents, future of rideshare, etc. These companies simply won’t back you up in anyway against false accusations. You are simply a number to them. I have been driving for 4 years now, generated over 320k revenue for them and have yet to have any interaction with anyone (outside of the support folks overseas that are contractors). I am nobody to them.

3. Declining Pay - In my four years, I have figured out some good strategies to help my pay, but bottom line, pay rates have declined in that time frame. Couple this with inflation - not good. It’s still worth it to me, but if it gets much worse, I may bail.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

justaGoober said:


> 1. Simply bad for your health to be sitting 10-12 hours in your car everyday. But I guess the same could be said for over the road trucking.


This is only true if the driver let's it be, get out of car every couple of hours and walk around for a few minutes, I'm a member of Planet Fitness I will occasionally if I see a Planet Fitness stop get out present my black card and use the treadmill for about 15-20 minutes, sitting in your car is unhealthy, I guess that means anyone who has a desk job or as you said truck driver is unhealthy, I say again that's the only true if the driver allows it to be unhealthy,

This is one of the main reasons why I get out and occasionally open doors, this is why I get out and supervise the loading of my trunk, I don't sit in the car like I'm glued to the seat.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uber/Lyft are just not worth doing.
> 
> what should you be paid for a 45 minute 44 mile trip?
> 
> ...


In my markets Uber wound pay $50. Lyft $40. So it’s worth it on Uber to take trip with hybrid. Uber Lyft would charge $75


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Jajajaja . You guys have ALL the answers !!!! I love the Planet Fitness one !!! Jajaja . 
Reality will start sinking in soon enough . Some need more time than others and also some got more money and time to lose.

The only smart statement here is the ones encouraging getting Commercial License and do private clients which considering all would be the best outcome . Still , their succes will much depend on the course rideshare industry takes in the next future.


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## LagunabobB (Sep 14, 2015)

Bnerdy said:


> I seen some good and bad points on here. I do agree that you’re not taking into account those slow months and the fact that you can be deactivated with little to no say. If you’re going to set aside a 1000 for your car, why not just rent one through Lyft or Uber (if it’s a thing in your market)? Also, net 3000 a month, why not be a greeter at Walmart or something like that. Not being funny, but it will probably net the same amount, per month, and not wear out your car. You are saving no money for retirement and if you get sick, you she no pro or vacation days. Ride share was never designed as a full time gig and they show you why, year are year, as they make changes to screw drivers over. Some drivers don’t take the hint and they take these cuts and stay. Tell me any job that cuts pay and gives you zero benefits and people still stay, only gig work. That really says something. I drove full time while I was in grad school and I was happy to stop. I also have been doing this part time (very last time) for over 7 years. I used to drive a bit more when the pay was good but it is now crap to drive. So, imo, you are better off finding a local job or something relaxing. Oh and driving a brand new car for rideshare, seems so financially reckless to me. I think a lot of drivers need to take a few accounting courses if you are going to do this full time or hire one.


In terms of getting a regular job, you are forgettng what I consider to be the main attraction to Uber for retired drivers like myself is the flexibility. I can work whenever I want for as long as I want. That is a huge plus for me. Frankly if Uber changes to an employee arrangement with fixed schedules I would say goodbuy.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I can do 800 miles in a WEEKEND working for-hire.

That's reality yo.

800 miles a week is 40,000 miles, which will kill a car in 5 years or less, from brand new. A used car bought at the 50-100,000 mile range and it will kill the car in 3-4 years.

My last pickup truck?

I had bought it in 2008 used and sold it in 2018, slightly more used. It depreciated from age.

The next car I bought after that I bought in 2010, it was a Sienna minivan I bought brand spanking new. I sold it to a junk yard for $500 minus the tow.


That's the cost of depreciation. That's also what happens when you buy a vehicle specifically for a small business. I had it marked/registered/insured as a taxi and drove it 230,000 miles in 3.5 years and the repair bill I had was WAY higher than what the car was worth. The Toyota dealership didn't even want the thing.

Your cars value is affected primarily by 3 things.
Age
Mileage
overall condition of the vehicle

Depreciation comes in three forms.
Age
Mileage
overall condition of the vehicle

Age is not affected by the ridesharing in the least. Mileage and overall condition ARE VERY MUCH affected by using it as a taxi or for ridesharing.

You use a car as a ridesharing vehicle for a couple hundred thousand miles (which would take me about 5 years PART TIME) you can drop a decade off the length of time your car is worth keeping on the road.

This is what we refer to as "Driving the wheels off"

Driving a car to the point it's literally worthless because it's not even drivable and not even fixable for the value of the car.


Let's take a 2010 Toyota sienna with 230,000 miles on the odometer. That's the exact same number of miles it had 8 years ago.

TODAY it's worth

Poor
* We do not provide values for cars in this condition.


8 years it ago it was worth

Poor
* We do not provide values for cars in this condition.


Why?

Because it was already 100% depreciated, the car was dead, 8 years older would make it no more or less dead than it was 8 years ago.

Age is only 1/3 things that affect the vehicles value.


Depreciation is nothing more than the manifestation in the change in value. Mileage/condition being huge components of that.

This is one of the first times in history that cars accross the board have gone UP In value and not down. When the supply shortages work themselves out and stabilize the values of all these cars are going to plummit back down to what they should be.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I can do 800 miles in a WEEKEND working for-hire.
> 
> That's reality yo.
> 
> ...


Here's an idea, are you ready, drum roll, how about you sell your car before you drive the wheels off of it..


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

LagunabobB said:


> In terms of getting a regular job, you are forgettng what I consider to be the main attraction to Uber for retired drivers like myself is the flexibility. I can work whenever I want for as long as I want. That is a huge plus for me. Frankly if Uber changes to an employee arrangement with fixed schedules I would say goodbuy.


Not all W-2 type jobs have fixed schedules or mandatory hours, we need to get rid of that myth.

However, yes the flexibility is a core attraction to doing rideshare. Given that supply and demand for rides is not constant, there’s no reason to think that will ever change.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> Here's an idea, are you ready, drum roll, how about you sell your car before you drive the wheels off of it..


I mean even if you use a car from the time it’s brand new until you drive it in the ground, unless you are bad at choosing which trips you do or you bought an over-expensive car, you should have made several times the value of the car before you kill it.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Qdx said:


> I mean even if you use a car from the time it’s brand new until you drive it in the ground, unless you are bad at choosing which trips you do or you bought an over-expensive car, you should have made several times the value of the car before you kill it.


Unless you're in Orlando...



painfreepc said:


> Here's an idea, are you ready, drum roll, how about you sell your car before you drive the wheels off of it..


I stopped using my own car for ridesharing/taxi work when the uber rates fell from 65c a mile to 48c a mile base rate.

Before the last rate cut that made me quit I was making about 90c a paid mile. (not total miles _per paid mile_) plus tolls.

$27-28 driving from disney world to the airport, barely worth it for me.

Now those same rides pay like $17.

In a taxi I'll get $45-75 from disney depending on the hotel, and anwhere from $55-100 including $10-20 tip, wheras with uber it's $17 with no chance of a tip. 

I drove a rental taxi friday night the 23rd.
I had $280 in gross revenue and made $175 in profit. I was kinda slacking off and it got kinda slow after 6:00 am or so and I had very little the last 3 hours I was out.
So $76 to the cab company is 27% of my total meter + tips.

Drove my personal car like 50 miles total to make $175 in a rented tax. All highway miles on my personal car.

Reality is that $1.00 a per PAID mile is not something I have been able to get for a long time now on uber/lyft.

Ocassionally i'l use a chaffeur vehicle to get uberXL and Select pings. But I'd never drop the kind of money for an SUV to do uber in again. Not when rates could drop 25% with no notice leaving me with an SUV I bought and didn't really want.

When I drive a chaffeur SUV about 20-25% of my daily revenue is off uber. Last 2 times i went out none of my pings i got sent were worth it from uber.

Truthfully I can make the same money in a POS rented taxi giving 33% (or less) of my meter to the cab company than I could using a $50,000+ luxury SUV doing uber/lyft these days.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Atavar said:


> The only fly in the ointment is that for a lot of people having a second vehicle in and of itself is a huge investment. You now have a second insurance payment, a second annual license fee, possibly a second car payment with interest, a second set of maintenance costs, a second set of tires, and you need another parking space.


I'd agree - except I never said anything about having a second vehicle.
There's no reason that you can't drive a used vehicle for rideshare as well your personal miles. If I were in that position, I'd just rent a nicer car for longer personal trips like weekend getaways or vacation.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Unless you're in Orlando...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the thing is, it’s just difficult to work the standard tier if you are a full timer in most markets because the base pay is so bad. I couldn’t see myself wanting to continue to drive full time outside of doing Lux/Black. In certain markets SUV is suitable as well. 

Uber X/Comfort and basic Lyft should only be a side gig with the current base rates so that you only drive during surges and boost periods.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> If you're in a lesser Market and to some extent even in a higher market, you can't have a car that only qualifies for basic Uber and basic lyft you will not make very much money you need to have a car that qualifies for the higher platform and you need to learn and drive and be professional and people will give you higher tips that is a fact I'm not even going to entertain an argument on that.


Sorry you won't find this entertaining. This is not argument, just my experience:
It didn't make a lick of difference in tips (overall) whether I was driving a 10 year old Hyundai minivan, a Mercedes SUV of the same age, or a newer Mercedes. Tips have always averaged around 25% of weekly revenue (and come from just 5-10% of riders). Over a 5 year period, the car and the platform made no difference at all.

What did make a difference was having a 3rd row in as inexpensive a vehicle as possible that still qualified for XL.
My first XL vehicle was a 2005 Hyundai Entourage that I bought for $2500 so I could work the RNC National Convention in Cleveland.
My second was a $4,000 GMC Acadia SLT II and the third was a Mercedes R320 I bought at auction for $2,700 (that riders thought was was brand new).

*I suspect that tips depend FAR more on the DRIVER than the vehicle.*

More than a few riders in my Mercedes sedan made comments the led me to believe that if I could afford the Mercedes, they needed the tip money more than me : )


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I stopped using my own car for ridesharing/taxi work when the uber rates fell from 65c a mile to 48c a mile base rate.


I stopped using my personal car after the first week of driving when I saw I was putting 1,000 mi/wk on the car - part-time. No way I was going to do that to my nice personal car. I went out and bought the nicest car I could find for under $3,000 (a 2005 Kia Amanti) - and made just as much driving that as I did my Mercedes sedan.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

UberPotomac said:


> running pax at .60 cents a mile or less does not allow you to make a profit to continue driving


This is a true statement, however, not all markets pay that low... just tossing that out there... many people who come with opinions similar to yours are in markets that just don't pay anything... in which case your advice is absolutely correct. I happen to live in a market that pays more than double that. So I'm content... for now, and even so only because this is a side gig.

Most markets, it's not worth doing. Just for those reading this, before you take it at face value, check your own market's rates. If it's over $1 a mile (uber X), you might make a go of it if you have good strategy.

Just my $0.02... that's all I have left after Christmas LOL


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

PaulRivers said:


> Other Considerations
> 
> 1. Health Insurance?
> 2. Car Insurance situation remains murky whether you're supposed to carry commercial insurance and whether you'll be covered if there's an accident.
> ...


I keep my CDL current, my medical card current. Dropped my HazMat endorsement. Work other W2 jobs to mitigate the tax burden somewhat of 1099 work.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Markisonit said:


> I keep my CDL current, my medical card current. Dropped my HazMat endorsement. Work other W2 jobs to mitigate the tax burden somewhat of 1099 work.


That's the other thing. Tax burdons vary wildly by market/vehicle type.

I pay about $30 a day in income tax driving a taxi but doing uberX it would be about NEGATIVE $5-10.

Course i'd rather have the extra $100-150 and pay $30 in taxes but that's just me.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

I got commercial insurance and all to do private rides . Mostly xl but primarily wheelchair passenger. 
I knew this topic would go viral.
You can spend money on hookers drugs gambling..I am in casino now...Atlantic city ..
The guy seems to want to be home and get off the over the road. Make 2k a month. Let him do it. Guys here are the biggest ball busters. He will not starve. His house is payed for. Is yours. ???
It's like when a cheap passenger asked you how does uber pay....
What's the answer truth...no ****ing way. I work 4 days a week and make $3500....these no tip passengers ask the stupid questions and never tip


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Sorry you won't find this entertaining. This is not argument, just my experience:
> It didn't make a lick of difference in tips (overall) whether I was driving a 10 year old Hyundai minivan, a Mercedes SUV of the same age, or a newer Mercedes. Tips have always averaged around 25% of weekly revenue (and come from just 5-10% of riders). Over a 5 year period, the car and the platform made no difference at all.
> 
> What did make a difference was having a 3rd row in as inexpensive a vehicle as possible that still qualified for XL.
> ...


Your vehicle mostly makes a difference in tips when it comes to vehicle tier, because the amount a person tips is relative to the cost of the fair.

So I would often get larger tips on Comfort than X and now I get larger tips on Lux than X/Comfort.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Qdx said:


> Your vehicle mostly makes a difference in tips when it comes to vehicle tier, because the amount a person tips is relative to the cost of the fair.
> 
> So I would often get larger tips on Comfort than X and now I get larger tips on Lux than X/Comfort.


This is true... also true is whether or not you are charming as a personality. And sometimes, whether or not you have a "fire" playlist... LOL. (that one is for those driving college kids)


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Ted Fink said:


> This is true... also true is whether or not you are charming as a personality. And sometimes, whether or not you have a "fire" playlist... LOL. (that one is for those driving college kids)


ALSO... some people are just good tippers and some aren't. I'm the former. If you wait on me in a restaurant and the service is normal (not above and beyond) I'm usually in the 30-35% range. And if you impress me, I've been known to take it higher. But equally true, some customers the waitress could give you a blowie and you still wouldn't tip. So I wouldn't read too much into tips... they come and go. Some times I get high tip on what seemed like an ordinary ride with nothing special about it. Other times I get nothing or $1 when I went above and beyond for the customer. Just ride the wave, look at the overall average.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> This is true... also true is whether or not you are charming as a personality. And sometimes, whether or not you have a "fire" playlist... LOL. (that one is for those driving college kids)


Yeah, I mean there are a lot of variables when it comes to tipping, but if we are isolating the vehicle in the equation then I think it’s largely related to tier and cleanliness… rather than Tesla or Mercedes vs Toyota.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> ALSO... some people are just good tippers and some aren't. I'm the former. If you wait on me in a restaurant and the service is normal (not above and beyond) I'm usually in the 30-35% range. And if you impress me, I've been known to take it higher. But equally true, some customers the waitress could give you a blowie and you still wouldn't tip. So I wouldn't read too much into tips... they come and go. Some times I get high tip on what seemed like an ordinary ride with nothing special about it. Other times I get nothing or $1 when I went above and beyond for the customer. Just ride the wave, look at the overall average.


You’re going to get a lot more $1 tips doing Uber X rather than doing Uber Black or Premier, so vehicle tier makes some difference. I regularly get tips on Lux that are larger than what I would normally get on X/Comfort.


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## Unkar's Muffins (Mar 9, 2017)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Did you forget health insurance? What if you get sick (you don't have any sick time)? Rideshare is seasonal, there are times of the year that are a lot slower.

My understanding with trucking was that once you done enough miles, after the first few years you can get something with a more normal schedule.

I do Lyft myself, 10-12 hours a day. The flexibility is awesome, but the pay just doesn't add up to anything more than a minimum wage job, and it takes a toll on your health because of all the sitting, sitting, sitting.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I'd agree - except I never said anything about having a second vehicle.
> There's no reason that you can't drive a used vehicle for rideshare and as well your personal miles. If I were in that position, I'd just rent a nicer car for longer personal trips like weekend getaways or vacation.


You haven’t priced car rentals lately I take it. We’re Rideshare drivers for dogs sake, not lawyers.


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## injunred73 (10 mo ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...



OK friend,

Here is my thinking, it's great you are making money, but uber /lyft aren't stable. Constantly being challenged in court, constantly not backing drivers, and constantly reducing your cut.

Yes they both have around for some time but they aren't near the same company they were 10 years ago.

Now look at pizza delivery, less miles, 25-40 an hour with tips in descent markets and they are the same now as 10 years ago. And bonus you could do rideshare on the side.

I think its a great side hustle but i can tell you i made 2x as much 10 years ago so if things stay the same, your pay will cut again each and every year.

Do you have rideshare insurance on your car or commercial insurance? If you get into an accident don't expect uber to back you, i got a dent and uber said to claim it on my personal insurance first and if they wouldn't fix it uber would, but that would mean my insurance finding out i was doing rideshare, at which point i lose my insurance.

If your car breaks down and needs fixing do you have a 2nd car to run with? You must do what works best for you, but there is still a reason why its a "gig" not a job.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

injunred73 said:


> OK friend,
> 
> Here is my thinking, it's great you are making money, but uber /lyft aren't stable. Constantly being challenged in court, constantly not backing drivers, and constantly reducing your cut.
> 
> ...


I got in a accident on Uber. It was so easy to get help. Way easier than Allstate


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## stephenburnett81 (18 d ago)

tommiezejeski said:


> I'm retired now but I used to analyze the cost of operating vehicles when I was working it was my job with the current price of gas it's costing you about 60 cents per mile to operate your vehicle when everything is considered at that rate you're spending $180 a week to make 205 not too good of a proposition I drove for Lift myself for about 10 months then I had an accident where a deer ran into me and my car was totaled only then I found out that lifts insurance is very poor such as a $2,500 deductible and no reimbursement for rental car while your car is being fixed if you want to use your own insurance you're going to have to get a rider and that's going to cost a lot more than what you're paying now for your insurance I wrote a short book on the cost of driving for Lyft is available on Amazon I forget the exact title but you'll find it under my name Thomas Miezejeski


 Here is my thoughts on choosing to do Uber and Lyft full time. As a truck driver like yourself, I also drive Uber and Lyft full time when taking a break from OTR. But the truth is there is a major difference between the term “Rideshare” and “Taxi”. If you do rides to and from your work then you are a “Rideshare” driver. But, if you do rides all day long, you are a “Taxi” driver. You sound like you exited the world of trucking as a company driver vs owner Operator. Your thinking as a company driver and not as a business. So if your going to do UBER and Lyft, you have to think about them as an entry level and come up with a game plan to create your own transportation company to service your people. Both Uber and Lyft platforms should be exactly that, a platform to link the Taxi driver to the customer. In our day and age there is no need for taxi companies like yellow cab when you can have 1 platform that links all single owner operated cabs to the customer.


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## WDM1wood (May 20, 2016)

tommiezejeski said:


> I'm retired now but I used to analyze the cost of operating vehicles when I was working it was my job with the current price of gas it's costing you about 60 cents per mile to operate your vehicle when everything is considered at that rate you're spending $180 a week to make 205 not too good of a proposition I drove for Lift myself for about 10 months then I had an accident where a deer ran into me and my car was totaled only then I found out that lifts insurance is very poor such as a $2,500 deductible and no reimbursement for rental car while your car is being fixed if you want to use your own insurance you're going to have to get a rider and that's going to cost a lot more than what you're paying now for your insurance I wrote a short book on the cost of driving for Lyft is available on Amazon I forget the exact title but you'll find it under my name Thomas Miezejeski


The crucial Rideshare Endorsement you reference costs pennies a day, and should in no way deter anyone. And no one should drive without it. Add that to your book.


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

Rideshare Mike said:


> I see you've given this some thought—more than most drivers. Let me preface this by saying I'm a whistleblower and exposé writer doing four years blogging and writing about both Lyft and Über for my upcoming book.
> 
> Here's my basic conclusions.
> 
> ...


You are going to waste your time writing a book?
Seek help.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Discdom said:


> Insurance gives you a two car discount.


well, as long as we're going into detail that is:
IF your coverage is with the same coverage and 
IF you don't tell the insurance company you're using a car for rideshare and 
IF you don't purchase a rider on your policy for business use of vehicle (rideshare coverage).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Qdx said:


> Your vehicle mostly makes a difference in tips when it comes to vehicle tier, because the amount a person tips is relative to the cost of the fair.


That has not been my experience. The only time I get a 10-15% tip is when I'm driving a low wage hourly employee to/from their job - when the ride is like $10 and they tip a buck. All of the cash tips I received have been in paper form from $5 - $100, cash and have no relation whatsoever to the fare. YMMV!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Atavar said:


> You haven’t priced car rentals lately I take it. We’re Rideshare drivers for dogs sake, not lawyers.


I rent a car a dozen times a year. And yes, this year was miserable, but that was due to the lack of inventory after the great pandemic sell-off of 2020 with the inability of the rental car companies to buy new inventory due to the manufacturing shortage. In other words - you're right - it was much more expensive his year than in the past... but it will be back to cheap rents on weekends in the near future - and the future is what we're talking about.

Last year I had to use services like Turo to rent in places like Phoenix that wanted $500 (if they even had a car available) where normally I'd pay $80 for a weekend rental. BUt I was still able to rent a nice used car for under $100/weekend using the Turo alternatives.


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## RockyJ (Jan 30, 2019)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have a plan that works well for you. Enjoying life is very important to living without stress and you appear to have that. No problem giving it a year and if it doesn't work as, you see it there are always other things to try. You are young enough that you can try it. Why not go for it!!


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> That has not been my experience. The only time I get a 10-15% tip is when I'm driving a low wage hourly employee to/from their job - when the ride is like $10 and they tip a buck. All of the cash tips I received have been in paper form from $5 - $100, cash and have no relation whatsoever to the fare. YMMV!


Qdx and I are talking from personal experience, we are both on the higher tiers in both Uber and Lyft, and the higher tier on lyft which is lyft luxury pays two to three times more than you will ever make on uberX our lyft basic platform, so we both see that we get higher tips depending on the higher amount of a fare and being on the higher platform,

And your tips which some of you may disagree with me is also based on your professionalism and based on your cleanliness of your car and and you're driving ability and you're willingness to assist people for like the loading of their luggage for example and having things like available phone Chargers in your car, when you are professional and you go beyond the Call of Duty yes many people will not take notice but some will and those that do notice will occasionally give you a higher tip, some of you can argue with this all you want I don't really care, I drove taxi for 12 years and I drove limo for a few years, so obviously my abilities as a public driver wasn't very good when I first started but as I gained experience I saw all these things happen first hand if you treat people like crap you drive around a dirty car and you have the attitude like this car is mine and please don't make any request of me, you will see it in your tips and you will see it in your ratings, some of you think the ratings don't matter yes they do matter they show how the public feels about you,

can't even drive the upper Platforms in lyft if you get too many uncleanly y car Flags are unsafe driving Flags or if ratings drop below 4.85,

Every time I'm sitting at the airport waiting lot, I see so many drivers dressed like going to somebody's house to paint it or do their Plumbing or go shoot some basketball hoops, if not going to dress professional and act professional don't expect for your passenger to dig into a pocket for big tip don't deserve it,

My God I'm not saying you have to dress like you're going to church, the driver can't put on a button down shirt with a collar, can't find a really nice jacket except for a sweatshirt, you can't wear what looks like dress shoes, they don't even have to be dress shoes guess look like dress shoes I see many of you with with those tennis shoes on and have the the bottom part that flares out that's not even safe to drive in,

I am a driver as well as a customer, If a driver pulls up to me and he's dressed like he's not going to work, but sometimes I will forgive that, but if his car is dirty, he drives me 50 miles an hour and a 30 mph zone, he drives 80 and 90 on the freeway without asking me if that's okay to do so, that driver gets three stars,

And here's what I have noticed over the years about our ratings, if you maintain High ratings, customers see your high ratings see how many years you've been driving and how many trips you've done, they're usually more forgiving in the rating system for giving us a one star or anything less than a five-star, I guess in their minds they figure this driver has high ratings his car is clean okay he made a minor indiscretion, I forgive it, but when you get low ratings and I've had low ratings for reasons I will not go into I got down to as low as a 4.74, as soon as I drop below 4.8 my rating started to drop like a rock because the customers were not forgiving at that point I make one minor error many would give me less than five stars.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

stephenburnett81 said:


> people. Both Uber and Lyft platforms should be exactly that, a platform to link the Taxi driver to the customer. In our day and age there is no need for taxi companies like yellow cab when you can have 1 platform that links all single owner operated cabs to the customer.


In Orlando there is most definitly a need for a cab company. Because uber hates us (the drivers) and has set up market that you can't turn a profit, wheras I can still make money driving a taxi.


I understand that uber has expenses. But they want to pay the drivers zero and get away with it. They are slowly pushing pay down and have been for 8 years.

I live in a VERY busy market. There's tons of fares... And that's my biggest gripe. If not making money doing uber was just because there wasn't enough fares I wouldn''t be upset. It would be a part time gig where you went out on weekends and made a few bucks. The issue is that I can log in 7 nights a week and get fares out the wing wang and still not make shit.

Not having fares and calling it a part time gig would be an entirely understandable situation. That's NOT what's going on.


The problem is that there are massive craptons of fares all suck giant donkey balls. I had 2 airport fares on christmas eve morning that uber driver's wouldn't take and the customer had to call a taxi. A very common thing I hear at disney world at 4-5:00 am is that "I would have called an uber but it said no cars available" and yet there's _*3 taxis lined*_ up at the hotel these folks are at. AT THE HOTEL.. not nearby.. Not in a holding lot for disney world. AT THEIR HOTEL!

That's what the difference in pay does. 3 taxi drivers lined up AT A SINGL HOTEL just itching to get an airport load from that hotel. Not one fricken uber driver in a _*20 minute radius*_ because the pay sucks so bad and the long early morning base rate fares suck.

Or do you really think that people staying at a _$400 a night_ hotel I was parked at arn't willing to pay more than $35 for their ride to the airport?

Because the customer have ZERO problem paying me $80 (including $15 tip) when uber is quoting them $35 and paying the driver $19

Sure I may have spent a couple hours parked at that hotel until I got a load, but I also got $80 for the 25 mile drive to the airport. 

$20 for 25 miles at 4:00 am? Yeah that's going to get the drivers to come out to disney world at 4:00 am, particularly because you have to drive empty to disney world because there's literally zero fares that go TO disney world between 1:00 am and 8:00 am. So it's not a 25 mile fare it's a 35-40 mile fare at best.


They are so many fares that the customers are willing to pay more for, yet uber won't charge more and pay the driver more.. and they are losing the fares because the pay is so low.

Another one I had in the suburbs, $90 on the meter, $100 total with tip. Uber wanted $50, driver pay would have been about $30. No uber driver for them either.. there was no driver taking them at the $50 price, Non, zip, zilch, nada.. no drivers would take it period. I drove _*18 miles empty*_ to pick them up and take them to the airport. Did I do it because the company forced me to? No I did it because it was a really awesome fare. Nothing else mattered.

So instead of "stealing" the cab fare by underbidding the taxi company by $40 they lost the business completely. That was a great fare for someone who lived in the suburbs and would be starting their day. If I lived in Apopka and I logged in at 4:00 to start my day I could have gotten a good start by getting a good airport fare.

But no, because of their shit pay there was no takers.

As the pay cuts hit there's an ever increasing number of times that customers can't get drivers. The hours of the day this is happening are expanding. The battle between uber/lyft is starting to turn because of their malice and cruelty.


So really.. Uber and lyft are just out of touch. They can charge more but they won't... because _they hate us._

Prove me wrong.


That's the company you're signing up to deal with. A company with a delusional superiority complex that is underbidding a century old industry that never had good margins to begin with and losing business because they don't pay enough. By every metric of supply and demand they are too stupid to set pricing correctly and it's burning them. And they probobly don't have a clue how to fix it.


The reality is that they are losing business to teh cab companies, while they are charging less money (and quite possibly providing better service not gonna lie) because the pay is _just that shitty._

Orlando has been ahead of the rest of the country in the race to the bottom for a long time.The next pay cut is around the corner.

So that's the companies you want to deal with.. a company that is underbidding the cab company by so much that they are losing fares to them because of sheer incompitence.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

My best tipping car was a black Lincoln towncar signature L . People loved the leg room and the leather seats . Old timers really enjoy when you pulled on the hotel or restaurant to pick them up .


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In Orlando there is most definitly a need for a cab company. Because uber hates us (the drivers) and has set up market that you can't turn a profit, wheras I can still make money driving a taxi.
> 
> 
> I understand that uber has expenses. But they want to pay the drivers zero and get away with it. They are slowly pushing pay down and have been for 8 years.
> ...


Good post steve 1 night cab. How much per shift. Problem we have here now. It's a big city some dumbshit will take a 2 hour 100.mile ride to nyc for $89


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

bobby747 said:


> Good post steve 1 night cab. How much per shift. Problem we have here now. It's a big city some dumbshit will take a 2 hour 100.mile ride to nyc for $89


The cab costs $76. Most nights my best 1-2 fares pay for the cab and or all my gasoline entirely.

Then (based on 2022 numbers) I have a profit of $120 on a bad to to $400+ on an amazing day, usually in the $150-200 range.

Compared to not making shit driving uber.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> Qdx and I are talking from personal experience, we are both on the higher tiers in both Uber and Lyft, and the higher tier on lyft which is lyft luxury pays two to three times more than you will ever make on uberX our lyft basic platform, so we both see that we get higher tips depending on the higher amount of a fare and being on the higher platform,


Sounds like you are extrapolating your experience on 'the higher tiers" to all drivers. That would be a mistake, since those higher tiers represent such a small portion of rideshare trips. Start with a false premise you'll reach a false conclusion. As I said, my comments are based only on my own experience of driving and knowing my local friend's experiences driving (X & XL). ymmv


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Uber’s still not profitable


An effective wealth transfer of $2.8 billion from labor to capital in just three months.




doctorow.medium.com





Please a must tread .


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The cab costs $76. Most nights my best 1-2 fares pay for the cab and or all my gasoline entirely.
> 
> Then (based on 2022 numbers) I have a profit of $120 on a bad to to $400+ on an amazing day, usually in the $150-200 range.
> 
> Compared to not making shit driving uber.


That's good Steve. Plus independent of these bad gig companies...


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

bobby747 said:


> That's good Steve. Plus independent of these bad gig companies...


The only company I have to bend over for is Disney. 

But It's not like I have to pay them out of pocket just to get screwed.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The only company I have to bend over for is Disney.
> 
> But It's not like I have to pay them out of pocket just to get screwed.


Any movement away towards these companies is good. On the Philadelphia forum. Guys ripped cabs here for years. I held back and said not so fast $2.70 mile...
Well cabs are making better pay than drivers uber lyft now.
So many upfront. Shit prices. That smart drivers never take. 100% pay cut.
Me I was lucky years ago. I invested in the wav program. I got alot of my own passengers and law firms. I can do x xl. Comfort wav. 
Big investment the van. But I am kinda like say black car. Paid different.
On x and xl. Same shit. Wav is locked now here and if you could be a new guy they control you...
how many you can get....the great thing is I got my van like new before the high prices and sent it to factory myself avoiding all the markup. 
Still alot..but I can sell it at very small loss.if I had to.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> well, as long as we're going into detail that is:
> IF your coverage is with the same coverage and
> IF you don't tell the insurance company you're using a car for rideshare and
> IF you don't purchase a rider on your policy for business use of vehicle (rideshare coverage).


I have rideshare insurance. I have renters insurance. I have multiple cars. I get a discount for these things.

multi car discount
Multi insurance discount 
Good driver discount 

$180 for 3 cars. Allstate. In a city with one of the highest rates in California


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

I haven't driven in a few years, but when I did It was mainly to survive. I made enough to get by on. I don't mean like I paid my mortgage in full and all of my bills. I survived in the living conditions that were my life. I agree that you will never make the money you could when you were a commercial truck driver just by driving UBER alone. However at least you look at it realistically, yes you will quickly run any vehicle into the ground ( Class A tractors are more expensive, but built to outlast the average Class C vehicle). If you treat it as a business and look at it realistically I suppose one could not have to work lower paying jobs like cashier, or clerk, stock boy, fast food worker etc. However if you think you're going to make the fru fru salaries that college graduates get pushing papers across desks working for some corporation ( sorry sending files and screwing off on the company computers and doing 5% of actual work a day) verses driving UBER X, I strongly disagree.

So for some ditching your boss and that stressful wage slave environment for UBER may bring you some piece of mind. However learning how to use your vehicle as a tax write off, and manage it as a tool that is your only source of income takes some learning and thought. But of you make $75,200 on average a year you might want to just realize that when you're at work in the office, you're at work. If you want to rideshare you wont be checking your social media all day and screwing off. You'll be driving more then 40 hours a week every week. Then you will wish you would have just stayed working at the office.


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## Mohuff (Oct 22, 2017)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


You can do all the math in the world and figure out alot of things. What you need to focus on, is if you are comfortable with the income you make. $200 in 12 hours? $17/hour? I would go work at Home Depot or Costco and not have the fuel and maintenance expenses for that income. I drive during the day and after 8 hours I am at $200+. I drive about 9-10 hrs/m-f and hit $1400 week before expenses.


Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


look at it this way. You are making roughly $17/hr before gas and expenses 


Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Figure you are making $17/hr before gas and expenses. I would just assume get a job somewhere like Home Depot and end up with more money per hour and a better schedule. My area gets me about $35/hr which keeps me driving, though after gas and maintenance I second guess my choice.


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## dalehan123 (5 mo ago)

I drive Uber part time. two years ago I traded in a 2016 Toyota Sienna which had 250,000 miles on it for a brand new 2022 Sienna. My dealer gave me $9000.00 for it on the trade. This year I traded in that 2022 Sienna, which already had 47 000 miles on it after two weeks shy of being one year old, for a 2023 Sienna, same model, the XLE. The dealer gave me $40,000.00 for the trade on it. The sticker price for the 2022 was about $42,500.00. Doing this, is a way to always have a brand new car, with a new warranty in place, with free oil changes and tire rotations etc, for a while at least. To me, as long as I can make the payment every month, it's fine with me. It's like a sort of lease agreement that has a larger mile allowance. I had my new 2022 Sienna with 47,000 plus miles on it after one year on the road. If I drove it at about the same rate for a second year, I would then have a 2 year old car with nearly 100,00 miles on it, give or take, with the warranty nearly expired.
So, for me, the choice I made, made sense. Now I have another brand new 2023 Sienna, with brand new tires and brakes and another extended 125,000 mi warranty in place, another lifetime warranty on the power train, etc..... I'm not saying this plan is for everybody, but for me it works.


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## dalehan123 (5 mo ago)

F30 LOLZ said:


> There are dealerships out there that do offer lifetime warranties on their vehicles. I traded a CTS Coupe for a Sahara 4dr back in April and the Ford dealership that sold it to me gave me a contract (included in the sale) and as long as I stay on top of scheduled maintenance, most critical parts on the Jeep would be covered under a $100 deductible. Drivetrain, fuel/coolant system, etc... While I stopped doing RS full time a few years ago, its great to have that piece of mind. Therefore, if you can find a car that you'll be happy with and get lucky with a nice warranty, you'll be good to go. For those keeping score at home, the dealership I'm talking about is Tom Wood and they're all over north Indianapolis with many brands.


Be aware that some brands that offer lifetime warranties have limits. Like, if your vehicle is being used for commercial driving, they may not honor the lifetime warranty. My advise is to trade in your vehicle every year to avoid high mileage. Your trade will be worth much more to the dealer with less milage on it than driving it for 200,000 miles in 3 or 4 years. Look at your car as a tool for your business. Change out that very exoensive tool for a new one while you can still get a good value for it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> Here's an idea, are you ready, drum roll, how about you sell your car before you drive the wheels off of it..


And do what - spend money buying another car that will quickly depreciate due to mileage and wear & tear?
Instead, I buy a car as cheaply as possible and drive it as long as it can still generate $. Doing that (and reducing fuel costs as much as possible) are the only ways to maximize profitability in rideshare.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

dalehan123 said:


> Now I have another brand new 2023 Sienna, with brand new tires and brakes and another extended 125,000 mi warranty in place, another lifetime warranty on the power train, etc..... I'm not saying this plan is for everybody, but for me it works.


Did you have any car loan on the 2023? 
Do you carry a business use/rideshare rider on your insurance?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

elelegido said:


> In that case, yes, $30k for depreciation is too high for a Rav4 in the example of three years / 120,000 miles.


You ceded your point too quickly.

@Rav4338, The depreciation expense is going to depend on which way you decide to go for tax purposes.

If you use the standard mile deduction the IRS considers approximately $0.27 per mileage deduction depreciation. So, if you used the standards mileage deduction you would have depreciated:

On 250,000 miles, depreciation equals $67,500 or double the value of your purchase price.
On 120,000 miles, depreciation equals $32,400 or the full value of the purchase price.
Where this comes into play is if you sell the car at the end of your use for $7,000 then you will have to pay for depreciation recapture. Best to gift the car to a family member when out of service. Once the title is in their name THEY can sell it (for you), and never to a dealer. Private sale only.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And do what - spend money buying another car that will quickly depreciate due to mileage and wear & tear?
> Instead, I buy a car as cheaply as possible and drive it as long as it can still generate $. Doing that (and reducing fuel costs as much as possible) are the only ways to maximize profitability in rideshare.


And you're an idiot what is the point of driving a car to the wheels fall off to the point that you no longer can even sell it as a decent Transportation car to get a few miles back and forth to work and get the kids to school, I see why you guys make no money in Uber and Lyft you have no business since whatsoever you write all these numbers down on paper and you think those numbers are engraved in stone you have no business sense at all I sold my 2015 Ford Fusion for $10,000 God damn dollars I should have just drove it another year until it was no longer drivable,
Seems like the mindset here of some of you here to push the numbers, is that your business office, yeah your car is like a business office on wheels, you act like that office is supposed to be free that you should actually be able to pick up people at no cost at all and it costs absolutely nothing, and then you go out and buy s*** cars that you can't pick up anybody on a higher platform and then then complain that there's no Uber and Lyft pay I drive the Lincoln MKZ because I can drive on a higher platforms and I can make a decent living and I'm not going to drive my Lincoln MKZ into the ground I'm going to sell it at a point where it's still a decent car for someone who's not going to drive a whole lot of miles I'm not going to run the goddamn wheels off of it.


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## fasteddy (Aug 31, 2015)

People put too much emphasis on depreciation of a car. Keep in mind this is your business. A car is just a tool. It’s like an office space when you’re done with your office space you pay rent you’re not worried about reselling your office space it’s just part of the business expense no big deal. 
Just like a carpenter isn’t worried about the hammer that is used on the nails to resell the hammer later it’s just part of the business, part of the expense just like the car for Rideshare don’t worry about the miles. 
You get a write off of $17,000 end of the year. it’s part of the expense of running the business and no big deal. Consider your car office space, you pay rent and when you’re done you’re done, no big deal you’re not trying to resell your office. I hope that gives some perspective. Quit worrying about the mileage. No big deal.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

fasteddy said:


> People put too much emphasis on depreciation of a car. Keep in mind this is your business. A car is just a tool. It’s like an office space when you’re done with your office space you pay rent you’re not worried about reselling your office space it’s just part of the business expense no big deal.
> Just like a carpenter isn’t worried about the hammer that is used on the nails to resell the hammer later it’s just part of the business, part of the expense just like the car for Rideshare don’t worry about the miles.
> You get a write off of $17,000 end of the year. it’s part of the expense of running the business and no big deal. Consider your car office space, you pay rent and when you’re done you’re done, no big deal you’re not trying to resell your office. I hope that gives some perspective. Quit worrying about the mileage. No big deal.


Here is what we have from the number pushers who have no common businesses, there are actually people out here and I know that for a fact cuz I have talked to them at the airport waiting area, they actually rent a Tesla paying $2,000 plus per month 24k plus per year because they don't want to depreciate their car they have at home already yeah that makes business sense yeah Jethro have fun


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

dalehan123 said:


> I drive Uber part time. two years ago I traded in a 2016 Toyota Sienna which had 250,000 miles on it for a brand new 2022 Sienna. My dealer gave me $9000.00 for it on the trade. This year I traded in that 2022 Sienna, which already had 47 000 miles on it after two weeks shy of being one year old, for a 2023 Sienna, same model, the XLE. The dealer gave me $40,000.00 for the trade on it. The sticker price for the 2020 was about $42,500.00. Doing this, is a way to always have a brand new car, with a new warranty in place, with free oil changes and tire rotations etc, for a while at least. To me, as long as I can make the payment every month, it's fine with me. It's like a sort of lease agreement that has a larger mile allowance. I had my new 2022 Sienna with 47,000 plus miles on it after one year on the road. If I drove it at about the same rate for a second year, I would then have a 2 year old car with nearly 100,00 miles on it, give or take, with the warranty nearly expired.
> So, for me, the choice I made, made sense. Now I have another brand new 2023 Sienna, with brand new tires and brakes and another extended 125,000 mi warranty in place, another lifetime warranty on the power train, etc..... I'm not saying this plan is for everybody, but for me it works.


Your model only works because there is a temporary shortage on new and used vehicles. 
Don't be surprised if the dealer only gives you $20,000 for you 2023 vehicle next year.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> And you're an idiot


Right.
You spend twice the expense to earn the exact same amount - but I'm an idiot.
You got me there.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

WEY00L said:


> Your model only works because there is a temporary shortage on new and used vehicles.
> Don't be surprised if the dealer only gives you $20,000 for you 2023 vehicle next year.


exactly - was going to post the same thing


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

fasteddy said:


> People put too much emphasis on depreciation of a car. Keep in mind this is your business. A car is just a tool. It’s like an office space when you’re done with your office space you pay rent you’re not worried about reselling your office space it’s just part of the business expense no big deal.


Office space is not the same as real-estate owned. You don't invest upfront in rented office space and it is not worth less over time - it's usually worth more which is why the rent increases each year instead of decreasing.
Owning a vehicle for work requires an upfront investment. The value of that vehicle declines each year and with each mile. That's depreciation.

If you rent/lease a vehicle for business use, then you are not wrong - it's just an ongoing weekly/monthly/annual expense that only changes when you change vehicles. But you seem to be conflating renting and owning - and that's an error.

An owned vehicle is a depreciating asset - and there's no escaping that.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Right.
> You spend twice the expense to earn the exact same amount - but I'm an idiot.
> You got me there.


As people like to say on here, you do you and I do me, twice I have sold a car when I knew in my heart that car was not going to last another year or another 40,000 miles, so I wasn't willing to roll the dice until as some like to say the wheels fall off, I'm not going to drive around a car where it might blow water pump it might drop an axle it might blow a transmission why not just sell it and make a decent profit off of it instead of selling it for $200 to a junkyard as I said I sold my Ford Fusion for $10,000, I took that $10,000 and I bought a used Corolla I sold it for $8,000, and when I'm done with this Lincoln MKZ in about 3 to 3 1/2 years I plan to sell it for about 10 or 12 thousand dollars I don't think it makes sense to run a car into the ground and be unsafe on the road, but as I say again you do you and I do me have fun,

And I sincerely apologize for calling you an idiot, I mean if it works for you then it works for you, but that don't work for me, I don't even understand why anybody drives a car until it's Wheels fall off, growing up I can remember seeing cars in people's yards with grass growing around it and probably all it needed was a simple radiator or water pump, just fixed it and sell it, it gets sit there in the same yard for years and collects rust makes no businesses to me.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Office space is not the same as real-estate owned. You don't invest upfront in rented office space and it is not worth less over time - it's usually worth more which is why the rent increases each year instead of decreasing.
> Owning a vehicle for work requires an upfront investment. The value of that vehicle declines each year and with each mile. That's depreciation.
> 
> If you rent/lease a vehicle for business use, then you are not wrong - it's just an ongoing weekly/monthly/annual expense that only changes when you change vehicles. But you seem to be conflating renting and owning - and that's an error.
> ...


I'm sure he knows this I'm sure he knows business-wise and tax wise it is a depreciating asset, I feel the same way he does even though I know it is a depreciating asset, it is still the cost of doing business, yes you get tax breaks yes there's deductions and blah blah blah, but you still have to pay money to do business it's a freaking expense, an example the way you guys talk about insurance for example for your car as if someone pays $150 money insurance and they do 30 $5 trips you speak as if those 30 $5 trips we're done for free because of the $150 insurance, as though the car doesn't require Insurance doing Uber or not like you're going to quit doing Uber and drive your car without insurance, everything involving Uber is not a loss because you paid money for it it's the cost of doing business get freaking over it or go flip burgers at McDonald's or Jack in the Box.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> As people like to say on here, you do you and I do me, twice I have sold a car when I knew in my heart that car was not going to last another year or another 40,000 miles, so I wasn't willing to roll the dice until as some like to say the wheels fall off, I'm not going to drive around a car where it might blow water pump it might drop an axle it might blow a transmission why not just sell it and make a decent profit off of it instead of selling it for $200 to a junkyard as I said I sold my Ford Fusion for $10,000, I took that $10,000 and I bought a used Corolla I sold it for $8,000, and when I'm done with this Lincoln MKZ in about 3 to 3 1/2 years I plan to sell it for about 10 or 12 thousand dollars I don't think it makes sense to run a car into the ground and be unsafe on the road, but as I say again you do you and I do me have fun,
> 
> And I sincerely apologize for calling you an idiot, I mean if it works for you then it works for you, but that don't work for me


[/QUOTE]
exactly - and that's why I usually post a your-mileage-may-vary [ymmv] disclaimer when I explain how something in my experience.
(thanks for the apology, too - the comment seemed out of character for you)


> I don't even understand why anybody drives a car until it's Wheels fall off, growing up I can remember seeing cars in people's yards with grass growing around it and probably all it needed was a simple radiator or water pump, just fixed it and sell it, it gets sit there in the same yard for years and collects rust makes no businesses to me.


Having a car on blocks in your front yard is not driving a car 'until the wheels fall off' - it's a bad choice in lawn ornamentation.
The expression means you drive a car until it's no longer worth driving - then you get rid of it. The point of it is there is usually a very long period of time and miles between you have recouped all of your investment in a vehicle and the time it is no longer able to generate income. 

That period of time (and miles) is the most profitable when doing rideshare because none of your earnings are going to recoup the initial investment. You may have heard me say this before: A driver is earns the same amount for the same ride on the same platform - and gets the same IRS std mileage deduction - whether they are driving a brand new vehicle or a 5+ year old vehicle - the difference is only that the driver of the 5+ yr old vehicle has a much lower cost of operation.

So, that's the explanation of 'why'. YMMV!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> I'm sure he knows this I'm sure he knows business-wise and tax wise it is a depreciating asset, I feel the same way he does even though I know it is a depreciating asset, it is still the cost of doing business, yes you get tax breaks yes there's deductions and blah blah blah, but you still have to pay money to do business it's a freaking expense, an example the way you guys talk about insurance for example for your car as if someone pays $150 money insurance and they do 30 $5 trips you speak as if those 30 $5 trips we're done for free because of the $150 insurance, as though the car doesn't require Insurance doing Uber or not like you're going to quit doing Uber and drive your car without insurance, everything involving Uber is not a loss because you paid money for it it's the cost of doing business get freaking over it or go flip burgers at McDonald's or Jack in the Box.


I never said anything about insurance and I agree with you that insurance, fuel, phones are all 'the cost of doing business' - most of which we have little or no real control over.

But the amount of money you spend on (invest) in a vehicle is a controllable cost - and one that can be nearly eliminated for at least a considerable amount of the time the car is in use. So, I'm curious: if you can reduce or eliminate one of the major 'costs of doing business' for a significant portion of time/miles, why would you just accept a monthly car payment or large cash outlay as the cost of doing business? I mean, I can think of a couple of valid reasons, like just wanting to drive a newer car... but for me, my personal cars and my business use vehicle are not one and the same.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I never said anything about insurance and I agree with you that insurance, fuel, phones are all 'the cost of doing business' - most of which we have little or no real control over.
> 
> But the amount of money you spend on (invest) in a vehicle is a controllable cost - and one that can be nearly eliminated for at least a considerable amount of the time the car is in use. So, I'm curious: if you can reduce or eliminate one of the major 'costs of doing business' for a significant portion of time/miles, why would you just accept a monthly car payment or large cash outlay as the cost of doing business? I mean, I can think of a couple of valid reasons, like just wanting to drive a newer car... but for me, my personal cars and my business use vehicle are not one and the same.


So buying a 2017 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid is a mistake I should have bought the Lincoln and the only use as a personal car then maybe buy a $5000 to $10,000 car and use it for business only, so now I would have two license tags, to insurances, two maintenance worries, that makes more economic sense to do it that way I assume just so I can have some tax break on the back end at the end of the year, no thank you,

Oh and let's not forget the cheaper business car I would not be able to drive on a higher platform, so I'm easily going to lose $100 $200 or more a week in earnings driving the so-called business car as opposed to driving my personal car that I'm using is like maybe 60 70% Uber and 40 to 30% personal


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Lots of good debate here... I think it comes down to personal preferences, how much one wants to spend, what tier(s) one wants to drive, and how your own market is with demand for the higher tiers. My market only has X and XL (rural area) and I drive a lot of miles in a shift. So for me it's better to drive an X hybrid car than an XL that uses more than double the amount of gas and double the maintenance costs while only increasing income by about 25% by my best estimation. I have several close friends who drive XL, but they all live right in town where we drive, I drive there from 50 miles away, so for me it doesn't make economic sense to buy an XL vehicle. Also XL demand in my area is intermittent at best. I do own a vehicle I could use for XL, but I choose not to.

TL;DR: It's a complicated calculation for each individual. Perfect illustration of YMMV.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Ted Fink said:


> Lots of good debate here... I think it comes down to personal preferences, how much one wants to spend, what tier(s) one wants to drive, and how your own market is with demand for the higher tiers. My market only has X and XL (rural area) and I drive a lot of miles in a shift. So for me it's better to drive an X hybrid car than an XL that uses more than double the amount of gas and double the maintenance costs while only increasing income by about 25% by my best estimation. I have several close friends who drive XL, but they all live right in town where we drive, I drive there from 50 miles away, so for me it doesn't make economic sense to buy an XL vehicle. Also XL demand in my area is intermittent at best. I do own a vehicle I could use for XL, but I choose not to.
> 
> TL;DR: It's a complicated calculation for each individual. Perfect illustration of YMMV.


Would you say is absolutely correct it all depends on personal preferences and what one considered as more convenient, but there are some people I hear that are doing things that are just plain silly like I said I have met guys that are renting the Tesla Model 3 which is costing around $2,000 a month or roughly $24,000 a year guess so they don't depreciate their nice family car at home no one's going to tell me there's any numbers on paper where that makes any sense.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> there are some people I hear that are doing things that are just plain silly


Totally agree. I would venture to guess the vast majority of drivers don't even understand if they are making a profit, or what the business climate is in their particular city.

My theory: It's a by product of the fact that the barriers to entry are low. So you get a lot of people driving who are not brain surgeons, so to speak. That's a generalization, obviously there are some highly intelligent people with business acumen that also drive (like myself, hee hee).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> So buying a 2017 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid is a mistake I should have bought the Lincoln and the only use as a personal car then maybe buy a $5000 to $10,000 car and use it for business only, so now I would have two license tags, to insurances, two maintenance worries, that makes more economic sense to do it that way I assume just so I can have some tax break on the back end at the end of the year, no thank you,
> 
> Oh and let's not forget the cheaper business car I would not be able to drive on a higher platform, so I'm easily going to lose $100 $200 or more a week in earnings driving the so-called business car as opposed to driving my personal car that I'm using is like maybe 60 70% Uber and 40 to 30% personal


?? a 2017 is a 5yr old vehicle - exactly what I recommended (although I personally buy vehicles older than that).

I also said a vehicle 'for the platform/level you want to drive' - and gave the examples of my purchase of my purchases of a 10 yr old Amanti sedan for X, a 10 yr old Entourage mini-van for XL and a 2009 GMC Acadia SLT II for an AWD XL (replaced with a 10 yr old Mercedes R320) and whatever they called the the step up from X before they killed it for Comfort. 

So far, none of what you have said is in contradiction to what I said I was doing, other than the way I drive the vehicle without a large investment or car payment.

The bottom line (that you seem to be arguing against) is that the less you spend on a vehicle (for any platform you drive) the more you earn in profit.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Eight pages in a week? I hope someone warned the affiliates this thread would be running long.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Sounds like you are extrapolating your experience on 'the higher tiers" to all drivers. That would be a mistake, since those higher tiers represent such a small portion of rideshare trips. Start with a false premise you'll reach a false conclusion. As I said, my comments are based only on my own experience of driving and knowing my local friend's experiences driving (X & XL). ymmv


XL isn’t in the same bracket as Lux and Black though.

Lux and Black are about a premium experience, while you can drive XL with a non luxurious minivan.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> As people like to say on here, you do you and I do me, twice I have sold a car when I knew in my heart that car was not going to last another year or another 40,000 miles, so I wasn't willing to roll the dice until as some like to say the wheels fall off, I'm not going to drive around a car where it might blow water pump it might drop an axle it might blow a transmission why not just sell it and make a decent profit off of it instead of selling it for $200 to a junkyard as I said I sold my Ford Fusion for $10,000, I took that $10,000 and I bought a used Corolla I sold it for $8,000, and when I'm done with this Lincoln MKZ in about 3 to 3 1/2 years I plan to sell it for about 10 or 12 thousand dollars I don't think it makes sense to run a car into the ground and be unsafe on the road, but as I say again you do you and I do me have fun,
> 
> And I sincerely apologize for calling you an idiot, I mean if it works for you then it works for you, but that don't work for me, I don't even understand why anybody drives a car until it's Wheels fall off, growing up I can remember seeing cars in people's yards with grass growing around it and probably all it needed was a simple radiator or water pump, just fixed it and sell it, it gets sit there in the same yard for years and collects rust makes no businesses to me.


Yeah, I mean it should be common sense to sell your car before it becomes completely worthless. I can’t believe you have to argue that point. If you run your car into the ground before you sell it, that should be by accident, not on purpose.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> Lots of good debate here... I think it comes down to personal preferences, how much one wants to spend, what tier(s) one wants to drive, and how your own market is with demand for the higher tiers. My market only has X and XL (rural area) and I drive a lot of miles in a shift. So for me it's better to drive an X hybrid car than an XL that uses more than double the amount of gas and double the maintenance costs while only increasing income by about 25% by my best estimation. I have several close friends who drive XL, but they all live right in town where we drive, I drive there from 50 miles away, so for me it doesn't make economic sense to buy an XL vehicle. Also XL demand in my area is intermittent at best. I do own a vehicle I could use for XL, but I choose not to.
> 
> TL;DR: It's a complicated calculation for each individual. Perfect illustration of YMMV.


A fuel efficient SUV seems like the best bang for the buck in your market if you can do XL. 

Simply because the higher tiers aren’t as busy as the basic tier, doesn’t mean that there is not value in being able to drive the higher tier. You can always drop down if/when needed.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I can do 800 miles in a WEEKEND working for-hire.
> 
> That's reality yo.
> 
> ...


No question at 75000 miles a year after 4 years or so..(4.5 years in my case), the car is toast. As others have said you trade your car for cash flow. But thats a good thing,

In Dec 2017 I could have sold my car for $18000. Instead I put it to work. Ive been taking $3000 a month out of the business. so over those 4.5 years. $165000. Thats a trade Id make any day

Trade my car for $18000 or $165000... You decide


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

@anteetr mr. Facepalm
what is the expected cost of old camry if it is totaled in an accident and now need another car.


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## lambentlimited (8 mo ago)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


I was a trucker as well and this is very similar to being an owner operator. I made less leasing a truck than I did as a company driver specifically because of repairs and shop time, nevermind the lease payment.

I wouldn't do this with a new car. I would buy a separate cheap car and use it. I'm using a 2013 Range Rover Evoque for deliveries now and I've put over 20,000 miles on it since May. I have an hourly job as a yard driver and do this maybe 4 or 5 hours a day and more on my 3 days off.

It works. I was making 1200+ over the summer and make more now since I know where to go. I consistently make 25 an hour here, and that's more than I make at my yard driver job. That's before fuel and expenses, however, but the income is tax free due to business deductions.

I paid ~16k for this and it's already depreciated to 12k due to its age, nevermind the miles. I have an expensive repair coming up soon as well (timing chain) but it should last for another 100k after that (hopefully).

Im considering moving to an electric vehicle when I can afford it. There's a $4000 tax credit for used ones now, and I'll definitely be looking in the used market. I'm also considering a motorcycle because I live in Texas and can ride almost all year. It might snow a week here.

Other than that, I think your plan is sound. I recommend using an LLC to build business credit while you're working so you can eventually just lease or buy with business credit alone. I've had mine since 2020 when I last leased a truck and was OTR.

I would definitely consider either renting a car just to do this with, which Uber does offer, or getting a diesel car. I'm looking at getting something like a VW TDI Jetta for my next car. It gets over 30 mpg city/45 highway. Diesel engines are known for lasting a lot longer than gas, and many will go 4 or 500K+ miles without needing a rebuild. Even so, if you wanted to keep your car you could just save back and do a complete engine swap every few years. It would still be cheaper than buying a new car. Rentals would be 250-300 a week and there are threads on here where people talk about doing it.









Like I said before, I'm driving a 2013 Evoque and doing it so it's doable. I paid 16k for it and it's at 142k already. I am sinking 4k into it in February after tax time that'll hopefully keep it going for a while. I am cutting back on deliveries due to having a full-time job, so I'll only be doing maybe 400 miles a week outside of work (if that). I'm still profitable using 93 octane. I spend about $20 a day on gas for 100 miles, and I'll make $150 or so in that period of time. It's definitely not the most efficient but I love the car. The wrap pays me $100 a month and lets people know I'm doing delivieres (like cops) instead of wondering why I'm parked outside their place at night.

I don't really care that much, though. I like the lifestyle of the job. No boss, I'm a contractor, I work whenever I want and wherever, I go to all of the nice parts of the city and drive around, I take breaks whenever I want, etc. This job isn't going to go away for a while, at least here. Robots and autonomous vehicles are further away than people realize. You can see how electric cars are still slow to adopt. Only the very rich can afford them, and they often choose gasoline luxury cars instead. I see more new Corvettes on the road here than Teslas.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

So there's something that no one seems to be mentioning. (Forgive me if I missed it)

A GREAT business desicion is to get commercial insurance and a for-hire license (limo licens, taxi license, will vary by jurisiction)

In my market just paying a few hundred a month for insurance and less than $500 a year makes you legal to give private rides.

Part of that requires you to register your vehicle as a taxi/black car in my state. It's a special type of registration that is basically like Car-AIDS.

Once you have that registration you'll never get anything but a fraction of the value of the car on resale because that type of registration was created because back in the 40s people bought used taxis and got ****ed over.


So reality is that the best thing you can do is get for-hire licensing and commercial insurance. And then give out your card and build up a personal clientele.

Not every market is this extreme but..

I can slap a $10.00 taxi sign on my roof and make 4 times uber rates. Give out my card and make 4X uber rates on return calls...
1 private taxi pickup is $10-12 for a short easily. Same time/distance is $3.00 on uberX.

But yes.. Once you register/insure your car as a taxi it's like car aids. Drive that sucker til the wheels fall off because there's zero point in selling it for more than the cost of scrap.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

lambentlimited said:


> I was a trucker as well and this is very similar to being an owner operator. I made less leasing a truck than I did as a company driver specifically because of repairs and shop time, nevermind the lease payment.
> 
> I wouldn't do this with a new car. I would buy a separate cheap car and use it. I'm using a 2013 Range Rover Evoque for deliveries now and I've put over 20,000 miles on it since May. I have an hourly job as a yard driver and do this maybe 4 or 5 hours a day and more on my 3 days off.
> 
> ...


400 miles a week X 4.33 (1 month) = 1732 miles
Cost 1732 x $0.625 = $1,082
Earnings $600 a week X 4.33 (1 month) = $2,598
Earnings Minus cost 2,598 - 1,082 = $1,516
Well dude you're only earning $1,516 + $100 car wrap,
See when you use all the math it's just not worth it,


Sorry having a little fun, I couldn't help myself, since this is the uber math I see going on all the time all over this site.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> So there's something that no one seems to be mentioning. (Forgive me if I missed it)
> 
> A GREAT business desicion is to get commercial insurance and a for-hire license (limo licens, taxi license, will vary by jurisiction)
> 
> ...


This is what I will be doing sometime in 2023, and that 10 to 12 dollars you mentioned is what I get doing lyft Lux, just did three of them guess now.


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## lambentlimited (8 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> 400 miles a week X 4.33 (1 month) = 1732 miles
> Cost 1732 x $0.62 = $1,073
> Earnings $600 a week X 4.33 (1 month) = $2,598
> Earnings Minus cost 2,598 - 1,073 = $866
> ...


Oh that's far from my math. Where did your cost come from? I have been eating steak dinners 3x a week and live at a hotel that costs 350 a week. I have all of my bills paid and a few hundred each month to spare just from Uber, so that math isn't adding up. I net around 20 an hour after fuel and insurance. That's pre-tax but then I use the standard mileage deduction and the standard deduction to cover it. 

400 miles is also what I said I will be doing starting this week since I'm going to be doing a 4 day 10 hour shift as a yard jockey from now on. In those 3 days, I might work 24 hours a week now at most, but probably 10-15. It'll probably be closer to 2 or 300 miles per week. Even so, I will make ~$500 doing that here since I make $25 an hour just about every day now that I know where to go.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

lambentlimited said:


> Oh that's far from my math. Where did your cost come from? I have been eating steak dinners 3x a week and live at a hotel that costs 350 a week. I have all of my bills paid and a few hundred each month to spare just from Uber, so that math isn't adding up. I net around 20 an hour after fuel and insurance. That's pre-tax but then I use the standard mileage deduction and the standard deduction to cover it.
> 
> 400 miles is also what I said I will be doing starting this week since I'm going to be doing a 4 day 10 hour shift as a yard jockey from now on. In those 3 days, I might work 24 hours a week now at most, but probably 10-15. It'll probably be closer to 2 or 300 miles per week. Even so, I will make ~$500 doing that here since I make $25 an hour just about every day now that I know where to go.


I was just having a little fun with the people here who like to say that the IRS deduction of 62.5 cents per mile is actually everyone's true expense for doing Uber and Lyft.

Anyway I went ahead and edited the math, I had it wrong I was out working at the time I did it.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> I was just having a little fun with the people here who like to say that the IRS deduction of 62.5 cents per mile is actually everyone's true expense for doing Uber and Lyft.
> 
> Anyway I went ahead and edited the math, I had it wrong I was out working at the time I did it.


I’m not saying 62.5 isn’t high.

im not saying 52c isn’t high,

I’m not saying 42c isn’t high.

But in my market all I’m being paid is 40ish c s mile.


that math doesn’t work


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## Mikekk (Aug 6, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In Orlando there is most definitly a need for a cab company. Because uber hates us (the drivers) and has set up market that you can't turn a profit, wheras I can still make money driving a taxi.
> 
> 
> I understand that uber has expenses. But they want to pay the drivers zero and get away with it. They are slowly pushing pay down and have been for 8 years.
> ...


They always make money do you think uber and Lyft cares about a few rides a night?.no they make billions and the driver's doesn't make shit lol if you don't get tips you don't make money


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## taxi818_5076 (2 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In Orlando there is most definitly a need for a cab company. Because uber hates us (the drivers) and has set up market that you can't turn a profit, wheras I can still make money driving a taxi.
> 
> 
> I understand that uber has expenses. But they want to pay the drivers zero and get away with it. They are slowly pushing pay down and have been for 8 years.
> ...


you got $80. But you are paying $600 or more a week to cab company. Plus gas. That $19 goes further than the $80 since no lease or car payment


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Qdx said:


> XL isn’t in the same bracket as Lux and Black though.
> 
> Lux and Black are about a premium experience, while you can drive XL with a non luxurious minivan.


You can drive whatever platform you can get a qualifying vehicle for... and Black is a different league altogether as it requires the driver to have a commercial insurance policy - and a vehicle no more than, what years old?
Completely different conversation. 

I realize that Uber wants us to believe that lower fares mean more earnings - but we know the truth. And with that in mind, DOes anyone disagree that when you spend less, you profit more?.


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## Billybbad (May 25, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In Orlando there is most definitly a need for a cab company. Because uber hates us (the drivers) and has set up market that you can't turn a profit, wheras I can still make money driving a taxi.
> 
> 
> I understand that uber has expenses. But they want to pay the drivers zero and get away with it. They are slowly pushing pay down and have been for 8 years.
> ...


I'm in the central Florida market and must agree with you.. We are in the tourist capital of the world where people come to SPEND MONEY!!. From the airport to Cape Canaveral cruise terminals pays $30.00. Hour over hour back and 30 minutes in line. 110 miles trip=3 gals gas=$12.00. Sucks. Uber could charge tourists MUCH MORE $$ and nobody cares.. My cousin drives in another area.. Makes twice what I do in an 8 hour day.. I make $100 a day in 6-7 hours , he makes 2x and stays out 7 hours.. If we all get fed up, uber will change.. Them and us will be happier.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In Orlando there is most definitly a need for a cab company. Because uber hates us (the drivers) and has set up market that you can't turn a profit, wheras I can still make money driving a taxi.
> 
> 
> I understand that uber has expenses. But they want to pay the drivers zero and get away with it. They are slowly pushing pay down and have been for 8 years.
> ...


You nailed it. They could up their rates and the customers would pay it and wouldn't bat an eye.

I had a Lyft pax the other day that I was privy to his phone conversation. He told the person he was talking to that he always checked who was cheaper, U or L. He chose L and I ended up being the L driver
.
For sake of this discussion, let's say that one of these rides was $14.50 and the other was $15.00. If both U/L raised their fares across the board by 20%, the fares would have been $17.40 and $18 respectively. The Pax wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow and both the company and driver would get a boost.

I normally don't drive but was chasing a bonus for Lyft which I made. They threw this bone out there and I snatched it up. I took every ping I got (within reason of course) to make my ride quota which I made in 3 days. Had it not been for that, this would have been a losing proposition, even if the rates were 20% higher.

I simply don't understand what the grand poobahs at U/L don't get about this.

Oh well, I got my bonus and now the keys stay on my dresser until the next time they throw me a decent bone.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You can drive whatever platform you can get a qualifying vehicle for... and Black is a different league altogether as it requires the driver to have a commercial insurance policy - and a vehicle no more than, what years old?
> Completely different conversation.
> 
> I realize that Uber wants us to believe that lower fares mean more earnings - but we know the truth. And with that in mind, DOes anyone disagree that when you spend less, you profit more?.


On some planets maybe but not ours.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

dalehan123 said:


> I drive Uber part time. two years ago I traded in a 2016 Toyota Sienna which had 250,000 miles on it for a brand new 2022 Sienna. My dealer gave me $9000.00 for it on the trade. This year I traded in that 2022 Sienna, which already had 47 000 miles on it after two weeks shy of being one year old, for a 2023 Sienna, same model, the XLE. The dealer gave me $40,000.00 for the trade on it. The sticker price for the 2020 was about $42,500.00. Doing this, is a way to always have a brand new car, with a new warranty in place, with free oil changes and tire rotations etc, for a while at least. To me, as long as I can make the payment every month, it's fine with me. It's like a sort of lease agreement that has a larger mile allowance. I had my new 2022 Sienna with 47,000 plus miles on it after one year on the road. If I drove it at about the same rate for a second year, I would then have a 2 year old car with nearly 100,00 miles on it, give or take, with the warranty nearly expired.
> So, for me, the choice I made, made sense. Now I have another brand new 2023 Sienna, with brand new tires and brakes and another extended 125,000 mi warranty in place, another lifetime warranty on the power train, etc..... I'm not saying this plan is for everybody, but for me it works.


This little game you played is going to be short-lived. The car market is going to come crashing down and the prices are going to plummet. Next year this time you would be lucky to get $30k for what you got $40k on the Sienna. This artificial price game is going to bite ALL car dealers in the ass, HARD.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Sounds like you are extrapolating your experience on 'the higher tiers" to all drivers. That would be a mistake, since those higher tiers represent such a small portion of rideshare trips. Start with a false premise you'll reach a false conclusion. As I said, my comments are based only on my own experience of driving and knowing my local friend's experiences driving (X & XL). ymmv


My percentage of XL rides is 1% at best.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

I think the pricing model on these companies is failing . Yesterday I got a call from a VIP to pick up at Airport today . Have not drive in a while but still keep private clients happy . Checked UBER & LIFT prices and were Uber x $50 against Lyft $ 150 , same pickup , same time , same drop off . How can that be possible ?


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> I think the pricing model on these companies is failing . Yesterday I got a call from a VIP to pick up at Airport today . Have not drive in a while but still keep private clients happy . Checked UBER & LIFT prices and were Uber x $50 against Lyft $ 150 , same pickup , same time , same drop off . How can that be possible ?


They are on an expedited road to ruin at this rate.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You can drive whatever platform you can get a qualifying vehicle for... and Black is a different league altogether as it requires the driver to have a commercial insurance policy - and a vehicle no more than, what years old?
> Completely different conversation.
> 
> I realize that Uber wants us to believe that lower fares mean more earnings - but we know the truth. And with that in mind, DOes anyone disagree that when you spend less, you profit more?.


I mean, the main argument is around the profitability related directly to your vehicle. Having a Lux vehicle enables me to make money without having to labor as hard as a vehicle that is only capable of doing Uber X because the Lux vehicle can receive higher pay per mile and minute and higher value tips.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> I think the pricing model on these companies is failing . Yesterday I got a call from a VIP to pick up at Airport today . Have not drive in a while but still keep private clients happy . Checked UBER & LIFT prices and were Uber x $50 against Lyft $ 150 , same pickup , same time , same drop off . How can that be possible ?


The Lyft price may be different 2 minutes from the time you checked. Both companies constantly change their pricing based on supply and algorithmic demand predictions. As Lyft sees that customers aren’t biting on the higher price, it will drop the rate.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Qdx said:


> I mean, the main argument is around the profitability related directly to your vehicle. Having a Lux vehicle enables me to make money without having to labor as hard as a vehicle that is only capable of doing Uber X because the Lux vehicle can receive higher pay per mile and minute and higher value tips.


You may get a higher rate per mile , but you also have a bigger investment, expensive maintenance and less volume than X service . It will depend on your market but I will asume that LUX request are not as of then at the base rate . 
I don’t think you can only run LUX and make their gig viable . It may imposible your bottom line during high demand and a better pax . But you can achieve that worth a decent car and driver experienced .


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## Djfourmoney (Dec 22, 2014)

My two cents:

I started doing Uber on Oct 30th 2014. I was already qualified for Lyft but I chose Uber because they had more demand and still do.

I moved to Postmates rather than pick up passengers. It's not like I didn't like doing that. I can work earlier in the evening and make the same amount of money without being out too late.

After Uber purchased Postmates, I had a problem renewing my background check. Since Instacart uses Checkr as well, I applied there and was approved immediately. I regard Instacart like any other "day" job. You get the best tips with the heaviest orders usually in the morning (Walmart, Costco) which continues throughout the day and gets busy again around 6-7 PM. 

Returned to UberEATS when I figured out I need to request a new background check through the website and not the app.

I work less but earn more with deliveries than any of the other things I have tried.

Due to other circumstances, I have had three vehicles in that time span. But I am not concerned about "running cars into the ground". I buy performance vehicles which are built more robustly to start with. The downside is things like W rated tires are more expensive but if you are driving an SUV, the tire cost is the same and so is the amount of fuel burned.

When not doing gig work I drag race my cars, so like I said so-called extra wear BS is usually coming from non-car people.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> You may get a higher rate per mile , but you also have a bigger investment, expensive maintenance and less volume than X service . It will depend on your market but I will asume that LUX request are not as of then at the base rate .
> I don’t think you can only run LUX and make their gig viable . It may imposible your bottom line during high demand and a better pax . But you can achieve that worth a decent car and driver experienced .


I make more money doing Lux only than I used to make doing Uber X/Comfort with about 1/3rd the labor per dollar. Lux is all about being in the right places at the right time…so while I can’t easily get Lux trips 24/7, I can easily get trips at certain times and places.

If I want to maximize my income, I can still do Uber X/Comfort when I know I have a low probability of getting Lux trips. However, to prevent exhaustion…when Lux is slow I just lay back and chill and I only use X/Comfort for special cases like if I want to hop out the airport queue or avoid paying tolls out of my own pocket after a Lux drop off.

A Lux vehicle doesn’t need to be ridiculously expensive if it’s used, so the option to earn money with less labor is more than worth the costs in any decent market.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Qdx said:


> I make more money doing Lux only than I used to make doing Uber X/Comfort with about 1/3rd the labor per dollar. Lux is all about being in the right places at the right time…so while I can’t easily get Lux trips 24/7, I can easily get trips at certain times and places.
> 
> If I want to maximize my income, I can still do Uber X/Comfort when I know I have a low probability of getting Lux trips. However, to prevent exhaustion…when Lux is slow I just lay back and chill and I only use X/Comfort for special cases like if I want to hop out the airport queue or avoid paying tolls out of my own pocket after a Lux drop off.
> 
> A Lux vehicle doesn’t need to be ridiculously expensive if it’s used, so the option to earn money with less labor is more than worth the costs in any decent market.


Of course, a driver should choose the higher profit trips over the lower ones. No doubt about that. Bigger payout will less effort . The problem is that there’s particular trips are not always available and you cannot maintain a LUX vehicle only with a few LUX trips without having to mix everything else . You can do an airport trip for $200 and tell us, is a bigger payout but if it is the only trip you did this week , can you afford your car ? I am just citing an extreme case as an example . The reality is that there are not enough LUX or CONFORT trips to do without filling with base rate . In the end of the day , the base rate bring down the average from the higher paid trips . I agree markets are different, but still U/L rates are inadequate to keep a LUXURY or any other vehicle on the road and turn a profit . You are only trading your car value for cash til you broke down or trade for a new car . In my opinion , the only way to turn a profit on Transportation are PRIVATE CLIENTS which also bring a challenge when 2 or more request at the same time .You may have a small fleet or have relation to other operators to fill that orders .
Uber and Lift are just a slow bleeding until you are dead . You may think you made some money but after taxes, lack of benefits , maintenance and considering the risk exposure, driving rideshare now is not viable financial decision.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> Of course, a driver should choose the higher profit trips over the lower ones. No doubt about that. Bigger payout will less effort . The problem is that there’s particular trips are not always available and you cannot maintain a LUX vehicle only with a few LUX trips without having to mix everything else . You can do an airport trip for $200 and tell us, is a bigger payout but if it is the only trip you did this week , can you afford your car ? I am just citing an extreme case as an example . The reality is that there are not enough LUX or CONFORT trips to do without filling with base rate . In the end of the day , the base rate bring down the average from the higher paid trips . I agree markets are different, but still U/L rates are inadequate to keep a LUXURY or any other vehicle on the road and turn a profit . You are only trading your car value for cash til you broke down or trade for a new car . In my opinion , the only way to turn a profit on Transportation are PRIVATE CLIENTS which also bring a challenge when 2 or more request at the same time .You may have a small fleet or have relation to other operators to fill that orders .
> Uber and Lift are just a slow bleeding until you are dead . You may think you made some money but after taxes, lack of benefits , maintenance and considering the risk exposure, driving rideshare now is not viable financial decision.


It’s way easier for me to consistently make good income with Lux than it was for me to do it with Uber X/Comfort. Doing Lux requires you to work more like a Black car driver than an Uber X driver, so if most of your experience is just with Uber X, you’re not going to immediately understand how to make a living with Lux.

You’re trying to argue that a vehicle that can enable you to make more money per trip is worse than a vehicle that is super limited 😅. That’s only true if the vehicle is a gas guzzler. However, a fuel efficient Lux or XL vehicle is going to be more versatile and enable you to make money with less labor than a X-only hybrid.

The only way you win with a tiny hybrid vehicle is by doing a ton of long trips at low margins…but then you’d only be winning in gross earnings, not profit margin or the amount of labor per dollar.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

taxi818_5076 said:


> you got $80. But you are paying $600 or more a week to cab company. Plus gas. That $19 goes further than the $80 since no lease or car payment


No i'm not paying $600 a week. Nowhere close actually.

I pay $76 a night (The company has cars between $66 and $83 I'm usually in a $76 car), which would be $532 a week if I drove 7 nights a week, _*which I don't*_. Most weeks I only drive 2 or 3 times total. $152- $228

Now let's take that $80.

My average per year on what % the cab company keeps and what % I keep is a fairly consistent number.

It's about 60% going to me. _60% of every fare including tips goes to me._ Some fares have no tips some do but $20 with no tip mathmatically is the same as $10 with a $10 tip. Sometimes I will go to "the bad part of town" and my tips are non existant. It is what it is.

The cab company for it's part, including providing the car gets about 30%, sometimes more sometimes less but the average for the year is about 30%.

So let's take that $80. What's 60% of $80?

_*$48...*_

My profit on the $80 ride is $48 (on average). That same ride on uberX pays $17-19 _*minus tolls*_.

Is there a big difference between $19 and $48?

Does Pac Man eat the bigger number or the smaller number I can't remember?
But the difference in pay in this town is beyond substantial assuming the taxi expenses are taken out and the uber expenses _arn't._

It literally doesn't matter how the expenses for uber/lyft are calculated. It's already garbage in comparison without those expenses taken off.


So let's look at my average profit on every fare and compare that to the payout uber gives for the same fare, minus an estimated expenses.

So 60% of $80 is like I said $48.
$19 minus expenses is $17 after tolls and $7.38 in mileage (26 miles times 30c a mile)

That leaves a profit of $10.00. Now we also have to take deadheading mileage itno account to. But I don't need to go there..

ASsuming the uber driver is 100% effecient and has zero empty miles that fare gives them a profit of $10.00, to my $48 driving a taxi.

Is 10 bigger than 48?

Let's say there's another 5 empy miles tacked onto that fare, at 30c a mile, to account for empty miles. That's another $1.50 in costs.

So now we're comparing $8.50 to $48.00

And for the record... I think 30c a mile is a tad low. I really do, but the math blows without expenses and with 30c a mile it gets even worse, and with empty miles it gets even worse...

If I calculate it the way i truly beleive expenses end up it's not $10.00 or 19.. or $8.50. IT's ZERO.. Because the pay is so bad its literally zero.

But I'm not even going to go there. I'm going to end the debate with $48 versus 19 minus expenses.

Because that's nothing that anyone can debate.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Qdx said:


> It’s way easier for me to consistently make good income with Lux than it was for me to do it with Uber X/Comfort. Doing Lux requires you to work more like a Black car driver than an Uber X driver, so if most of your experience is just with Uber X, you’re not going to immediately understand how to make a living with Lux.
> 
> You’re trying to argue that a vehicle that can enable you to make more money per trip is worse than a vehicle that is super limited 😅. That’s only true if the vehicle is a gas guzzler. However, a fuel efficient Lux or XL vehicle is going to be more versatile and enable you to make money with less labor than a X-only hybrid.
> 
> The only way you win with a tiny hybrid vehicle is by doing a ton of long trips at low margins…but then you’d only be winning in gross earnings, not profit margin or the amount of labor per dollar.


Wow you beat me to it I was guess about to post something like this, can a Uber X only driver who doesn't care about the mileage he puts on his car match my earnings or even beat my earnings, yes that Uber X only driver can match me or beat me, emphasis would have to be based on Pay Per time based as is supposed to pay per mileage based,

There are two basic earning strategies doing rideshare, time based or mileage based, in my mind I think of it like a sliding scale one side of the scale is time based the opposite side of the scale is mileage based, you need to adjust your strategy of using that sliding scale Depending on time of day/night and traffic conditions,

Extreme example if you don't give a damn about how much mileage you put on your car, your strategy should be time-based pay, if you're renting a car to do uberX or Lyft your emphasis should be time-based pay because it's not your car it's not your depreciation you shouldn't care anything about how much mileage is going on that car, you're only worried should be your miles per gallon and how much it cost you for gas to make that money, not how much wear and tear and depreciation is going on that car it's not your car it's not your depreciation if you're renting the car or if you own the car but don't care about how much mileage you put on the car and depreciation, your emphasis should be time-based,

but if you care about the depreciation of the car because you own the car within your emphasis should mostly be mileage base pay, so depending on the time of day traffic conditions my mindset is mostly based on time base pay, as traffic conditions increase my emphasis is more on mileage base pay,

But how you use that mileage base pay, time base pay sliding scale depends on your Market depends on the time of day depends on what type of trips come up in your market, depends on your mindset, last night for example or should I say early this morning a trip came up at San Manuel Casino going all the way to LA, Uber X it was paying $66 but it was 7 miles to pickup and going 70 miles, now in a busy time of day would I have taken that trip no, but it was 1:00am in the morning and it was 10 minutes to pick up the passenger and 1 hour to complete the trip for a total of about 70 minutes to make $66 mine about $8 in gas I get 32 to 35 miles to a gallon gas where I live is about $3.70 per gallon I took the trip some drivers might not have wanted it would have been too quick to say it's not paying a dollar per mile,

When I got to LA, I got several trips under lyft luxury going to lax, so by being on both platforms doing Uber X and Lyft basic the the lyft Lux brings me closer to that Dollar Plus per mile average, I run two devices I'm not going to get into details about how I work that.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> Wow you beat me to it I was guess about to post something like this, can a Uber X only driver who doesn't care about the mileage he puts on his car match my earnings or even beat my earnings, yes that Uber X only driver can match me or beat me, emphasis would have to be based on Pay Per time based as is supposed to pay per mileage based,
> 
> There are two basic earning strategies doing rideshare, time based or mileage based, in my mind I think of it like a sliding scale one side of the scale is time based the opposite side of the scale is mileage based, you need to adjust your strategy of using that sliding scale Depending on time of day/night and traffic conditions,
> 
> ...


When I was first reading your reply I thought you were UberPotomac, I was like “wow, he’s making a lot of sense all of a sudden” 😅… but yeah, a person who hasn’t spent a lot of time working other tiers doesn’t fully understand the differences. 

I think the thing we need to bring into the conversation as well, is that although an Uber X driver can beat a Lux driver in earnings when it comes to online time, it will be extremely difficult for them to do so in terms of active time. Active/booked time is the key labor metric. Now there may be some unbooked dead mile labor when it comes to Lux depending on your trip selection and strategy, but you’re typically looking at doing at least twice the amount of labor per dollar and sometimes close to 3 times the labor per dollar if you don’t have big promotions that week.

The key reason why I don’t fully maximize my income by splitting time more evenly between X/Comfort and Lux, is that I use the idle time for resting. However, if you had unlimited energy (or are just younger than me 😅), doing a combo of all 3 modes is better than doing X only or Lux only. If you had to do only X or Lux, Lux is more sustainable in terms of full time labor.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Qdx said:


> When I was first reading your reply I thought you were UberPotomac, I was like “wow, he’s making a lot of sense all of a sudden” 😅… but yeah, a person who hasn’t spent a lot of time working other tiers doesn’t fully understand the differences.
> 
> I think the thing we need to bring into the conversation as well, is that although an Uber X driver can beat a Lux driver in earnings when it comes to online time, it will be extremely difficult for them to do so in terms of active time. Active/booked time is the key labor metric. Now there may be some unbooked dead mile labor when it comes to Lux depending on your trip selection and strategy, but you’re typically looking at doing at least twice the amount of labor per dollar and sometimes close to 3 times the labor per dollar if you don’t have big promotions that week.
> 
> The key reason why I don’t fully maximize my income by splitting time more evenly between X/Comfort and Lux, is that I use the idle time for resting. However, if you had unlimited energy (or are just younger than me 😅), doing a combo of all 3 modes is better than doing X only or Lux only. If you had to do only X or Lux, Lux is more sustainable in terms of full time labor.


I am 60 years old now I cannot do the hours I used to do driving Taxi and the first few years of driving Uber and lyft, there's actually some weeks I don't work at all there are some weeks I only work three or four days, so I will post an example of my earnings from October 31st to November 7th a good week, I had then so it shows active hours versus online hours.

I know someone's going to comment about the 70 hours, I wasn't sitting in my car for 70 hours, some of those hours are me waiting at home during the day for a pickup at my local Metrolink or nearby shopping center, I live within a half mile of the Metrolink and within one to one and a half miles of a couple of shopping centers.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> No i'm not paying $600 a week. Nowhere close actually.
> 
> I pay $76 a night (The company has cars between $66 and $83 I'm usually in a $76 car), which would be $532 a week if I drove 7 nights a week, _*which I don't*_. Most weeks I only drive 2 or 3 times total. $152- $228
> 
> ...


Steve guys here been ripping TAXI'S here forever. Botton line no surging they earn more.
If you get say 100 mile trip ie.... vero beach. How does the company pay per mile. And any fees to return empty. Here if they go to nyc 110 miles I believe they get a dead head fee.. but rates are $2.70 mile


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> I am 60 years old now I cannot do the hours I used to do driving Taxi and the first few years of driving Uber and lyft, there's actually some weeks I don't work at all there are some weeks I only work three or four days, so I will post an example of my earnings from October 31st to November 7th a good week, I had then so it shows active hours versus online hours.
> 
> I know someone's going to comment about the 70 hours, I wasn't sitting in my car for 70 hours, some of those hours are me waiting at home during the day for a pickup at my local Metrolink or nearby shopping center, I live within a half mile of the Metrolink and within one to one and a half miles of a couple of shopping centers.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I feel you on the hours thing… I’m usually averaging 70+ hours too, but online doesn’t have the same significance if you’re doing premium tiers because you can be literally sleeping, inside your house or drive way or various forms of lounging. If I wanted to reduce my online time for vanity reasons, I could…but I’ve learned to not worry about it much. 

I set my target to $2K +-$300… I hit the target the majority of the time…once in a while I’m make less than $1,700 or more than $2,300…but I’m usually in that range. I rarely do Uber X though unless it’s a huge promotion or I’m using it for a special purpose.

I theoretically could make $2,000 a week with Uber X/Comfort, but I’d go to an early grave because making that kind of money without big promos is way more labor than doing it with Lux.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

bobby747 said:


> Steve guys here been ripping TAXI'S here forever. Botton line no surging they earn more.
> If you get say 100 mile trip ie.... vero beach. How does the company pay per mile. And any fees to return empty. Here if they go to nyc 110 miles I believe they get a dead head fee.. but rates are $2.70 mile



This is how much money I make per day.
P = Y- $76 - (M Divided by 10) - T

P = Profit
Y = Meter + tips
M = miles driven
T= tolls


100 mile fare?

Vero beach is about 100 miles to the airport so that's a good round number.

Meter start $2.40
Mileage - $240
Time - $5-10
Tolls $2
$1.00 airport pickup charge 
$250-255

Long fares are better 100% of the time. There's basically nowhere I can get $250 in 3 hours sticking around orlando. It can't be done. So yes.. big long fares are awesome for us, not going to lie.


This is the cost breakdown if that is the ONLY fare I have all day.

-$3.80 airport pickup fees (yes, this ends up negative -2.80)
-3.60 tolls
-$83 (A taxi with airport stickers is $7.00 more per shift not gonna lie)
-$20 gas
$110.40 in costs.


So i'd be looking at a $150 profit on that shift, *if that was the only fare I had all day*. And there was no tip. That's 60% of the meter being my profit.

When $250 is the low end of average having a fare that high throws off the math in a very big way.

Now lets say I fet another $200 in the time I have left with the car. (well the time before and after that fare)
That's probobly another $15-20 in gas/tolls to add $200 in revenue.

So take that $200 in profit and add another $180, making it $380 in profit on $150 in expenses and $530 in total revenue.

That's a profit margin of 71.6%
Meaning that 100 mile fare gives me a profit of $179. Which is about.... $129 more than an uber driver would get paid without surge, namely about $50-60.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Qdx said:


> When I was first reading your reply I thought you were UberPotomac, I was like “wow, he’s making a lot of sense all of a sudden” 😅… but yeah, a person who hasn’t spent a lot of time working other tiers doesn’t fully understand the differences.
> 
> I think the thing we need to bring into the conversation as well, is that although an Uber X driver can beat a Lux driver in earnings when it comes to online time, it will be extremely difficult for them to do so in terms of active time. Active/booked time is the key labor metric. Now there may be some unbooked dead mile labor when it comes to Lux depending on your trip selection and strategy, but you’re typically looking at doing at least twice the amount of labor per dollar and sometimes close to 3 times the labor per dollar if you don’t have big promotions that week.
> 
> The key reason why I don’t fully maximize my income by splitting time more evenly between X/Comfort and Lux, is that I use the idle time for resting. However, if you had unlimited energy (or are just younger than me 😅), doing a combo of all 3 modes is better than doing X only or Lux only. If you had to do only X or Lux, Lux is more sustainable in terms of full time labor.


Woow . I know I can be hard to read but not to missed the point fue that much . There is not enough LUX and CONFORT trip s to keep a luxury car busy at all times . You end up driving X on an expensive car to fill in and that screwed any profit margin when you account for the higher value and maintenance of the car . Now, going to UBER X , I never said is a better option . Right now there is no better options . At these rates is not a sound financial decision driving rideshare unless you have Private Clients and commercial insurance to do black service . Everyone else is lying to themselves or not making the right math . Just because some can buy steak 3 times a week , the numbers add up . It is all and illusion and like all the piramid schemes at one point end . As soon as you have an accident or need to replace the car , many of you will find out . Good luck


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> Woow . I know I can be hard to read but not to missed the point fue that much . There is not enough LUX and CONFORT trip s to keep a luxury car busy at all times . You end up driving X on an expensive car to fill in and that screwed any profit margin when you account for the higher value and maintenance of the car . Now, going to UBER X , I never said is a better option . Right now there is no better options . At these rates is not a sound financial decision driving rideshare unless you have Private Clients and commercial insurance to do black service . Everyone else is lying to themselves or not making the right math . Just because some can buy steak 3 times a week , the numbers add up . It is all and illusion and like all the piramid schemes at one point end . As soon as you have an accident or need to replace the car , many of you will find out . Good luck


The core error in your logic is that you think because Lux drivers are not able to get rides 24/7 then that means that they can’t earn a sustainable income. This is simply false. Let’s say in any given week, I can have 25-30 booked hours. If in those booked hours I can make $60-$90/hr… that means there is $1,500 to $2,700 worth of income potential in that week, even without me being busy 24/7.

Also, remember, that being Lux ONLY is a choice. I can still step down and do X and Comfort whenever I want to. So if it’s a very slow season for Lux, I could just start to do more X trips. If Lux is doing very good, I can do 0 X trips and make a lot of money.

You want to be right about something you have no experience with so bad that you are actually wishing failure upon other drivers. Get better.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> Woow . I know I can be hard to read but not to missed the point fue that much . There is not enough LUX and CONFORT trip s to keep a luxury car busy at all times . You end up driving X on an expensive car to fill in and that screwed any profit margin when you account for the higher value and maintenance of the car . Now, going to UBER X , I never said is a better option . Right now there is no better options . At these rates is not a sound financial decision driving rideshare unless you have Private Clients and commercial insurance to do black service . Everyone else is lying to themselves or not making the right math . Just because some can buy steak 3 times a week , the numbers add up . It is all and illusion and like all the piramid schemes at one point end . As soon as you have an accident or need to replace the car , many of you will find out . Good luck


Like most here you're so busy looking at the numbers on paper you have no real life experience driving a ride share car on a lower class platform and a upper class platform using two apps and two devices at the same time, do you understand that as a lower class and upper class car I don't have to do the miles and the hours that someone on a lower class to receive the same amount in earnings.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> Like most here you're so busy looking at the numbers on paper you have no real life experience driving a ride share car on a lower class platform and a upper class platform using two apps and two devices at the same time, do you understand that as a lower class and upper class car I don't have to do the miles and the hours that someone on a lower class to receive the same amount in earnings.


How dare you question my rideshare experience!!! Jajaja
I put up 16k trips . I had a Toyota with 300k and a Lincoln with 480k miles Let’s see yours .

May be you have limited reading comprehension but I thought I was clear . Let me do uppercase . THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LUX AND CONFORT TRIPS TO JUST DO THESE KIND OF TRIPS . You end up obligated to mix it up with low paid trips and that lower your averages . Second , you are accepting low paid trips on a high value car and all the expenses that bring . In the end of the day, reality is not only about percentages . You need to bring REAL MONEY to allow you going out the next day .
I think the one that refused to understand is you and it is OK .
No one is obligated to take the advice . The same ones usually back in 2 years with 300k miles and a car with a loan underwater because they thought 2 high paid trips a day plus 12 Uber X at lower rates will make make ends meet .
That is what rideshare does to you . It bring an ilusión that you are there , that close but you really never get the prize.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

UberPotomac said:


> How dare you question my rideshare experience ?
> I put up 16k trips . I had a Toyota with 300k and a Lincoln with 480k miles Let’s see yours .
> 
> May be you have limited reading comprehension but I thought I was clear . Let me do uppercase . *THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LUX AND CONFORT TRIPS TO JUST DO THESE KIND OF TRIPS .* You end up obligated to mix it up with low paid trips and that lower your averages . Second , you are accepting low paid trips on a high value car and all the expenses that bring . I think the ones that refuse to understand is you and it is OK . Came back to me in 2 years with 300k miles and a car with a loan underwater because you do 2 LUX trip a day plus 12 Uber X at lower rates to make ends meet .


Why do you keep saying this even though it’s a lie? I do Lux only the vast majority of the times and only do Uber X if there is an attractive enough promo or I want to use it for some utility purpose. I’m not the only one either. There are more than a few drivers in my area who either do Lux only, Lux and Black, Black only, Black and SUV, or Black SUV and privates only. To say that you can’t make a living just of the premium tiers is outright false.

Even if my market were weaker for Lux, and say I had to derive 50% of my income from Lux and 50% of my income from Uber X…that still means that dollar for dollar, I’m reducing my labor by 25-30% which is still extremely valuable. 

Your hours mean nothing if you haven’t actually been doing the workflow that we have been doing.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> How dare you question my rideshare experience!!! Jajaja
> I put up 16k trips . I had a Toyota with 300k and a Lincoln with 480k miles Let’s see yours .
> 
> May be you have limited reading comprehension but I thought I was clear . Let me do uppercase . THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LUX AND CONFORT TRIPS TO JUST DO THESE KIND OF TRIPS . You end up obligated to mix it up with low paid trips and that lower your averages . Second , you are accepting low paid trips on a high value car and all the expenses that bring . I think the one that refused to understand is you and it is OK .
> ...


I've been doing this 8 plus years Uber and lyft, I'm on my third car, I did taxi for 12 years paying between $500 and $600 a week for a car to drive taxi, and also did limo for a few years, so I don't know how you think your experience is super Superior to mine, as I said the problem is having one's head so far up into the numbers you can't even see the clear picture, for example why do you think of it as the uberX trips bring down my earnings I look at it the other way around the left luxury trips bring up my earnings, do you think the average Uber driver driving Uber X it's going to make more than I do on a busy weekday morning or this coming New Year's Eve and New Year's Day,

Car expense for example, the way you and others here look at car expense I don't look at it that way, I look at the money I pay for my car as a fee for driving my car every week guess as if I was paying for a taxi, but big difference when I'm done with my car in 3 or 4 years, I can sell it and get some money I can never get any of that money back I paid $500 600 a week to drive a taxi.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> I've been doing this 8 plus years Uber and lyft, I'm on my third car, I did taxi for 12 years paying between $500 and $600 a week for a car to drive taxi, and also did limo for a few years, so I don't know how you think your experience is super Superior to mine, as I said the problem is having one's head so far up into the numbers you can't even see the clear picture, for example why do you think of it as the uberX trips bring down my earnings I look at it the other way around the left luxury trips bring up my earnings, do you think the average Uber driver driving Uber X it's going to make more than I do on a busy weekday morning or this coming New Year's Eve and New Year's Day,
> 
> Car expense for example, the way you and others here look at car expense I don't look at it that way, I look at the money I pay for my car as a fee for driving my car every week guess as if I was paying for a taxi, but big difference when I'm done with my car in 3 or 4 years, I can sell it and get some money I can never get any of that money back I paid $500 600 a week to drive a taxi.


I did not question your experience , YOU DID . You assumed I just know this gig on paper.
But of course , like for many here , your facts are fluid . If you drive LUX and BLACK, you carry a Commercial License thru a Transportation Co with Commercial Insurance and FOR HIRE TAGS and that is a whole different game. You are a limo driver not a rideshare driver . Have the minimun decency to not mislead rideshare drivers that’s are struggling to make it out there , just because you fell the need to lie to feed your ego .
There is a reason why I mostly just fly by this community forum . Other thatn because I lost interest on rideshare if I have to pay to drive people around and the second reason is for excessive number of assholes that think they discovered America or have some special skill and as soon as you question them , they came out with a vengeance . If you don’t like my comment , move on .You don’t have to be a prick everyday . You may learn something or question your position enough to adjust it and do better . Isn’t that what we all aspire? DO BETTER. Instead you prefer to argue to try to prove a point . You still don’t get that I move on from rideshare . If you get your head off your ass , you realize there is more to life that spend it behind the wheel .


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> I did not question your experience , YOU DID . You assumed I just know this on paper.
> But if course , like is we’ll know here , the facts are fluid . If you do LUX and BLACK, that is a whole diferent gsje . First of all , you carry Commecial insurance thru a Transporation Company with for hire tags . You are a limo driver not a rideshare driver . Have the minimun decency to not mislead rideshare drivers that’s are struggling to make it out there , just because you need to lie to feed your ego .


What lie are you referring to, I've been doing Rideshare for the last 8 years and I do well doing it, when I do it.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> If you drive LUX and BLACK, you carry a Commercial License thru a Transportation Co with Commercial Insurance and FOR HIRE TAGS and that is a whole different game. You are a limo driver not a rideshare driver .


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> I did not question your experience , YOU DID . You assumed I just know this gig on paper.
> But of course , like for many here , your facts are fluid . If you drive LUX and BLACK, you carry a Commercial License thru a Transportation Co with Commercial Insurance and FOR HIRE TAGS and that is a whole different game. You are a limo driver not a rideshare driver . Have the minimun decency to not mislead rideshare drivers that’s are struggling to make it out there , just because you fell the need to lie to feed your ego .
> There is a reason why I mostly just fly by this community forum . Other thatn because I lost interest on rideshare if I have to pay to drive people around and the second reason is for excessive number of assholes that think they discovered America or have some special skill and as soon as you question them , they came out with a vengeance . If you don’t like my comment , move on .You don’t have to be a prick everyday . You may learn something or question your position enough to adjust it and do better . Isn’t that what we all aspire? DO BETTER. Instead you prefer to argue to try to prove a point . You still don’t get that I move on from rideshare . If you get your head off your ass , you realize there is more to life that spend it behind the wheel .


You seem to have trouble reading with comprehension, I didn't I did not question your experience as a driver, I questioned your experience as a driver using two devices two apps driving on a lower platform and a upper platform at the same time, the paper part is you putting numbers on paper and trying to equate that to real life example, you have no experience in doing what we're talking about to understand how it works we don't have to only drive Lyft luxury or only drive Uber X.

Your logic about the higher price car and more expensive amuses me, the fact is even if I only earned $100 plus more per week than an Uber X only driver, in 1 year that would be $5,000 plus more money.


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## Qdx (5 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> You seem to have trouble reading with comprehension, I didn't I did not question your experience as a driver, I questioned your experience as a driver using two devices two apps driving on a lower platform and a upper platform at the same time, the paper part is you putting numbers on paper and trying to equate that to real life example, you have no experience in doing what we're talking about to understand how it works we don't have to only drive Lyft luxury or only drive Uber X.
> 
> Your logic about the higher price car and more expensive amuses me, the fact is even if I only earned $100 plus more per week than an Uber X only driver, in 1 year that would be $5,000 plus more money.
> 
> View attachment 690389


Yeah, I mean the most absurd part of his argument is that he’s acting as if we don’t do Lux 24/7 then there’s no benefit at all. If we’re doing Lux all the time, it’s purely because of choice… we can still do X/Comfort whenever we feel like it.

It’s not like you need to spend $80K on a brand new top of the line luxury vehicle to do Lux. His whole argument is nonsensical. He’s also ignoring the labor side of the argument. Mixing in Lux increases earnings per booked hour allowing you to maintain decent income with less exhaustion… so it’s more sustainable than an X-only grind.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Qdx said:


> Mixing in Lux increases earnings per booked hour allowing you to maintain decent income with less exhaustion… so it’s more sustainable than an X-only grind.


Exactly that's why I posted the screenshot I earned in 30 minutes what some Uber X drivers have trouble earning in 2 hours,

I normally start at 2:00 a.m. so in 5 to 8 hours, I have already earned what a Uber X and/or Lyft basic driver would have earned working 10 to 12 hours,
Which which equals less Miles and less wear and tear on my car,

It's 30 minutes because I had to drive about 16 minutes to pick up.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> So there's something that no one seems to be mentioning. (Forgive me if I missed it)
> 
> A GREAT business desicion is to get commercial insurance and a for-hire license (limo licens, taxi license, will vary by jurisiction)
> 
> ...


Great point. 
I add that it only makes sense after looking at the all the numbers

the cost of commercial insurance can be prohibitive ($10k or more yr) in many metro areas - especially if you have lousy insurance history, poor-mediocre credit, or any driving record 'dings'.
commercial insurance for livery plates/service usually only makes sense for F/T drivers - not those who drive a few hours a wk.
if you want to build your own clientele you also need to spend $ to market/advertise. (that can be a small exp or a big one)
if you want to drive Uber Black (because you have commercial insurance) you also have to have a qualifying (ie new/newer, much more expensive vehicle.
For someone driving F/T to make al iving, it is an option that should be considered. Some drivers I know drive Black Car with commercial insufrance & livery platges - but still have an old XL vehicle so they can do X/XL without having to drive their Black Car to do it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Markisonit said:


> My percentage of XL rides is 1% at best.


wow - that's really low. find a college campus club/bar area and drive THU-SAT evenings, lol!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Djfourmoney said:


> My two cents:
> 
> I started doing Uber on Oct 30th 2014. I was already qualified for Lyft but I chose Uber because they had more demand and still do.
> 
> ...


DIfferent people doing this work differently is pretty much par for the course - 
and people definitely do what works for them or they change what they are doing or stop driving. 

I think you're right about "car people" - but I also think only car people understand what that means : )


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## Stickshiftpsycho (Aug 21, 2021)

Rav4338 said:


> I want some brutal honesty. I’ve read thousands of threads on this forum and I get the idea of those who complain about the low pay, selling equity in your car and all the other variables. I’ve read them all. I get it. But here’s my situation.
> 
> I’m in my early 50s. I’ve been a over the road commercial truck driver for the past four years. I can bring in about $1500 a week take home on average being out on the road as a truck driver. However life is flying by being gone from home weeks at a time and I’m tired of it. About a month ago I signed up for Lyft. I went out for a week and I drove hard. I have a brand new Toyota RAV4. It’s an LE model and I paid $32,000 out the door for it. I know how to do math and I know how to run numbers. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Your a uber and lyft recruiter aren't you. Sorry bud I ain't working no 12 hours a day in my car. Are you nuts? Your gonna be repairing parts on a weekly basis. And if you say it's a new car well Your new car is depreciating to zilch.

Someone has to tell me how in the world you can sit in a car 5 to 7 days a week 12 hours a day and still feel your legs and pen15


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## Stickshiftpsycho (Aug 21, 2021)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Download and drive for uber
> Lyft is the bottom of the bottom of the barrel
> You understand there are going to be costs
> Now you need to learn how to extract the most money out of your market in the shortest time
> ...


I make more money with lyft in vegas and people tip better on lyft. I've found with uber I literally get only stupid deliveries


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stickshiftpsycho said:


> Your a uber and lyft recruiter aren't you. Sorry bud I ain't working no 12 hours a day in my car. Are you nuts? Your gonna be repairing parts on a weekly basis. And if you say it's a new car well Your new car is depreciating to zilch.
> 
> Someone has to tell me how in the world you can sit in a car 5 to 7 days a week 12 hours a day and still feel your legs and pen15


like another poster here you can't read with comprehension, he said he took 2 hours break out of the 12 hours, and I am used to doing the same thing, I don't drive 12 hours a day anymore but I have done it, for about 12 years I did it as a taxi driver, in fact I would go to work on a Friday and not come home till Monday, if you can't handle being behind the wheel then don't do it,

comments like yours amuse me, are you worried about how long the city bus driver sits behind the wheel, are you worried about how long Greyhound bus driver sits behind the wheel, are you worried about how long truck drivers are sitting behind the wheel, you're not, your only concerned about how long rideshare drivers sit behind the wheel.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Stickshiftpsycho said:


> Someone has to tell me how in the world you can sit in a car 5 to 7 days a week 12 hours a day and still feel your legs and pen15


I've done 12-14 hrs (before they put limits on how long you could be on app, or online or whatever). 
It's not like your strapped to the seat. When driving, I'm always in & out of the vehicle, helping with the trunk or assisting someone who needs assistance. It's nearly identical to the activity I get working at my desk 12 hours/day. I don't understand what your concern is.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I've done 12-14 hrs (before they put limits on how long you could be on app, or online or whatever).
> It's not like your strapped to the seat. When driving, I'm always in & out of the vehicle, helping with the trunk or assisting someone who needs assistance. It's nearly identical to the activity I get working at my desk 12 hours/day. I don't understand what your concern is.


When I'm working I take every excuse to get out of my car. I mean *every single excuse*. If you're parking waiting for a ping and the weather isn't trying to kill you it's a very good idea to get out of the car with your phone, even standing and walking around your car is good, walk around and check the back seat for Lost and found trash and clean it out.

I can't pull the dispatch computer out of the taxi so sometimes I'll just get out of the driver's seat and lean in and watch the computer.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stickshiftpsycho said:


> Your a uber and lyft recruiter aren't you. Sorry bud I ain't working no 12 hours a day in my car. Are you nuts? Your gonna be repairing parts on a weekly basis. And if you say it's a new car well Your new car is depreciating to zilch.
> 
> Someone has to tell me how in the world you can sit in a car 5 to 7 days a week 12 hours a day and still feel your legs and pen15


Continuous shift hours at some point I would take a 30 to 90 minute break,
Below is an example of my hours as written on paper, I normally do 34 to 50 hours per week, I did those full 78 hours mostly my first 3 years of driving Uber, I still occasionally do the full hours weeks no more than two times per month
*My rideshare hours 34 to 78 hour week,
just an example not written in stone*
Mon - 2am to 6am or 10am (4 to 8 to hours)
Mon - 10pm to Tue 8am or 10am (10 to 12 hours)
Tue - 10pm to Wed 8am or 10am (10 to 12 hours)
Wed - 10pm to Thu 8am or 10am (10 to 12 hours)
Thu - 10pm to Fri 6am or 8am (8 to 10 hours) optional day off
Fri - 6pm to Sat 4am or 6am (10 to 12 hours) optional day off
Sat - 6pm to to Sun 4am or 6am (10 to 12 hours) optional day off
Sun - Off
Some of the days I would do a split shift
Just example not written in stone
2am to 8am or 10am and 3pm to 7pm or 9pm

As I said the hours are not written in stone, I mix it up some that helps me to keep from burning out, I may for example take Friday off and then come back out Saturday at like 4:00 p.m. and work until 6:00 a.m. Sunday maybe even go all the way up to 8:00 a.m. then maybe take Monday off or maybe work 4 to 8 hours that Monday morning.

*My taxi hours were insane sometimes approaching 80 to 100 hours, I won't bother to post an example because many of you would not believe it*


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> When I'm working I take every excuse to get out of my car. I mean *every single excuse*. If you're parking waiting for a ping and the weather isn't trying to kill you it's a very good idea to get out of the car with your phone, even standing and walking around your car is good, walk around and check the back seat for Lost and found trash and clean it out.
> 
> I can't pull the dispatch computer out of the taxi so sometimes I'll just get out of the driver's seat and lean in and watch the computer.


You mean you weren't glued to the seat, where did you find the driver glue seat remover..lol

I don't understand these people that think driving long hours means we never get out of the car or never take a break, but there are some YouTube clowns that actually promote things like bringing your lunch and not drinking too much water so you never have to get out of the car, yeah very healthy not to drink too much water and not get out of the car.. not a healthy thing to do.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> *My taxi hours were insane sometimes approaching 80 to 100 hours, I won't bother to post an example because many of you would not believe it*


That's why I don't do weekly taxi rentals LOL.

IF you don't work batshit insane hours on a weekly rental you won't make shit.

Even on whole day rentals you end up going crazy.

How crazy?

9-9.

But that's not that Crazy is it?

not 21:00 to 9:00, not 9:00 to 21:00... _*9:00 to 9:00*_


Right now at teh cab company I drive for the best weekly numbers can be acheived by renting a car alternating between 3 and 4 days a week on a seven 24 hour rentals per 2 weeks.

Monday, wednesday, friday, Sunday, Tuesday, thursday, Saturday.

So for a 2 week cycle.

15 hours- Monday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hours- Tuesday midnight to 9:00 am.
15 hours- Wednesday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hoursThursday Midnight to 9:00 am.
15 hours- Saturday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hoursSunday Midnight to 9:00 am
15 hours- Monday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hours Tuesday midnight to 9:00 am
15 hours- Wednesday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hours thursday midnight to 9:00 am
15 hours- Friday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hours Saturday midnight to 9:00 am
15 hours- Sunday 9:00 am to midnight
9 hours Monday Midnight to 9:00 am

For a combined total of 168 hours in the car per 2 weeks, on 7 "shifts"

Then the taxi would cost 120- $170 per "day"
$840- $1190

Much less than the cost of 2 "week" rentals at the company, For the more expensive car it's actually much much less.


Then I would expect 140 hours of actual work. Times $20-30 an hour..
$2800- $4200
-$840-1190
- $420 in gasoline
$1190-$2940 in profit per 2 weeks.

Minimum wage when it's slow, $1000-1500 weeks when it's busy.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That's why I don't do weekly taxi rentals LOL.
> 
> IF you don't work batshit insane hours on a weekly rental you won't make shit.
> 
> ...


My first 7 to 8 years of driving Taxi, those companies bread and butter was mostly account rides, yes there were some cash fares but they usually assigned me a nice car and I was mostly assigned accounts,
One of the cars that was assigned to me was a Grand Marquis it could seat six people, another car that was assigned to me for a few years was an unmarked black on black Crown Vic luxury inside not a police interceptor,
In fact it didn't even have a taxi meter, when it was a cash fare I charged them based on the odometer reading, do not ask me how the company legally did that I can just tell you they did it I was doing it and it was never an issue,

Monday to Thursday
3am to 5 or 6 or 7pm mostly account rides very few of the rides paid cash,
5 or 6 or 7pm to 9pm looking for cash rides only to get gas money to do the account rides,

Sometimes my account calls wouldn't start till 5:00 a.m. and sometimes they would end by 2pm or 3pm. so some nights Monday through Thursday I did go home a little early but usually no earlier than 6:00 or 7:00 p.m.

Friday day
3am to 3pm last account ride,
After that last ride, I rest until 7:00 pm

Friday night
7 or 8pm to 3am

Saturday night
4 or 6 pm to 3 or 4am

Sunday off

That's a possible Max of 108 hours, did I do 108 hours every week hell no but it was usually around 85 to 90 plus weekly easily,

On Friday I would not allow the dispatchers to give me any account calls that were scheduled after 3:00 p.m., because I needed to do that last call and rest up to get ready for Friday night so Friday I would work from

Those extreme hours for mostly doing my first seven to eight years of taxi,
The last four or five years I worked for small mom and pop Taxi companies, so usually work Monday through Saturday about 12 hours a day so usually around 72 plus hours a week.

I forgot to say how the account calls were paid, you turn in all your paperwork on monday, and they subtract the taxi lease from the total of the vouchers and the accounts, and then they would cut us a check, taxi weekly rental usually ran around $500 to 600 per week and the driver pays all the gas there was no gas card.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> My first 7 to 8 years of driving Taxi, those companies bread and butter was mostly account rides, yes there were some cash fares but they usually assigned me a nice car and I was mostly assigned accounts,
> One of the cars that was assigned to me was a Grand Marquis it could seat six people, another car that was assigned to me for a few years was an unmarked black on black Crown Vic luxury inside not a police interceptor,
> In fact it didn't even have a taxi meter, when it was a cash fare I charged them based on the odometer reading, do not ask me how the company legally did that I can just tell you they did it I was doing it and it was never an issue,
> 
> ...


That's basically how it works but there's 4 jakalope taxi "sub fleets". Long story short there's not enough city of Orlando/airport permits to go. Some taxis don't have orlando/airport permits around some of the taxis arn't really taxis, they have a special permit and the Untaxis can't have quite a few words on the exterior branding , nor can they do street hails or queue the airport etc. But they do street hails all the time because there's no actual enforcement except at the airport.

They also get full taxi rates and share dispatch with the regular taxis, and have identical paint schemes. Most importantly neither is given priority over dispatch, dispatch treats them all as taxis. (except the mears ride guys generally depend on dispatch fares and taxi drivers may or may not depend on dispatch, depending on the driver)

Legally the un taxis can be booked by calling the phone number, using the app, calling the driver directly, sending a text message, email, electronic app, or any other not defined method of communication except directly hailing the vehicle/driver. 
Smoke signals? Blinking sign? Craigslist ad?
Yep all fine.
walking up and talking to the driver? Nope. 

Banned words on signage and branding: Taxi, cab, Taxicab, for hire, Checker, and Yellow cab co.


So the taxis say "Mears Taxi"
And the un taxis say "Mears Ride"


















Most of the drivers are on weekly but we also have an overnight shift or a 24 hour shift. On the overnight I can pickup between 20:30 and 22:00 and then it's due back 12 hours later. When the car is due back I turn in my vouchers and my taxi rental is taken out of the voucher/credit card balance. Then the next driver gases up at the company gas pump to start the day and I get back charged any amount they can get in the tank on my next shift.

Then if there's anything left over after all that the cashier peels off cash and hands it over. Today I walked home with $180 cash but the cashier only handed me.. $3.00. The rest of the cash came from cash customers. Some days I have to pay the cashier a few bucks, even on good days. One time ever, I owed exactly nothing and was owed exactly nothing. The cashier manager had to look up the code to in the manual to complete the transaction on the computer.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> This is how much money I make per day.
> P = Y- $76 - (M Divided by 10) - T
> 
> P = Profit
> ...


Yes long trip like vero. Very very rare. But my point . Is taxis pay alot more. Nice info steve. Happy new year


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

If you have the cash... keep your Rav4 but _also _buy a mechanically well maintained but cosmetically average 10 year old Prius, Corolla or Camry with 100K-150K miles on it. Register _both_ vehicles on both Uber and Lyft. Drive the beater as much as possible for rideshare and only for rideshare. When the beater is in the shop for whatever reason, _only then_ drive the Rav4 for rideshare.

Used car prices will probably plummet sometime this year. Maybe you should wait until then to buy the beater.


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