# Here’s why Uber and Lyft send drivers such confusing tax forms



## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

http://www.sfgate.com/business/netw...y-Uber-and-Lyft-send-drivers-such-6092403.php


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2015)

If I see this correctly, We are paying taxes on Ubers/Lyfts cut, so they don't pay?


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

I got 1099 K and 1099 Misc( $1900) which includes $1 SRF from April 2014 to September 2014 .What I understand is taxes are 
15.3 % of 1099 K and around 40% of 1099 Misc. Any thoughts?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

arto71 said:


> I got 1099 K and 1099 Misc( $1900) which includes $1 SRF from April 2014 to September 2014 .What I understand is taxes are
> 15.3 % of 1099 K and around 40% of 1099 Misc. Any thoughts?


Taxes depend on your total adjusted gross income minus deductions and credits......there is no % of 1099K or 1099M to calculate taxes owed. 15.3% is the amount of self employment tax for 2014, this covers social security and medicare only


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## UberPartner101 (Feb 5, 2015)

Hmm, I'm wondering if the 1099-K includes the gross amount Uber received when they initiated the charge to the client. For example a $30 charge would net Uber $28.50 after the credit card processing fee. They paid a commission of $22.50 to the partner (75% of $30) but does the 1099-K reflect $24.00, adding the $1.50 back in? I'm not sure there is any data that could actually be used to audit this. I need to look into this.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

UberPartner101 said:


> Hmm, I'm wondering if the 1099-K includes the gross amount Uber received when they initiated the charge to the client. For example a $30 charge would net Uber $28.50 after the credit card processing fee. They paid a commission of $22.50 to the partner (75% of $30) but does the 1099-K reflect $24.00, adding the $1.50 back in? I'm not sure there is any data that could actually be used to audit this. I need to look into this.


The 1099-k has the entire fare including the safe rider fee.

To calculate taxable income the driver lists on schedule C the safe rider fee and Uber's commission as costs (in addition to the driver's other costs of driving).


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

people making .65/mile shouldnt be paying Uber taxes


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

UberPartner101 said:


> Hmm, I'm wondering if the 1099-K includes the gross amount Uber received when they initiated the charge to the client. For example a $30 charge would net Uber $28.50 after the credit card processing fee. They paid a commission of $22.50 to the partner (75% of $30) but does the 1099-K reflect $24.00, adding the $1.50 back in? I'm not sure there is any data that could actually be used to audit this. I need to look into this.


We need to compare the weekly summaries to the 1099K. My guess is that the IRS will issue guidelines for rideshare companies soon and force Uber to issue 1099M's instead of 1099K's. 1099K's were created in 2008 for credit card payments. Uber is in a gray area of the tax law by issuing 1099K's . 1099k's are for"payment processors". They issue 1099K's from Rasier not Uber. Rasier might be considered a credit card payment company but they are most likely owned by Uber....stay tuned the IRS will issue guidelines eventually. My guess is Uber does this to further separate itself from the drivers for liability reasons. We can't be their employees when they don't even pay us. If we kill somebody while working nobody can sue Uber, only Rasier. And I'll bet Rasier has very few assets if any. Does anybody know anything about Raiser? Are they owned by Uber? Do they do payment processing for anyone other than Uber?


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Taxes depend on your total adjusted gross income minus deductions and credits......there is no % of 1099K or 1099M to calculate taxes owed. 15.3% is the amount of self employment tax for 2014, this covers social security and medicare only


Tanks for your explanation ,however got one question is there any difference % between your gross earnings 1099 and incentives/guarantees etc 1099?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

arto71 said:


> Tanks for your explanation ,however got one question is there any difference % between your gross earnings 1099 and incentives/guarantees etc 1099?


There may be some differences for the *companies issuing* the 1099M's and 1099K's, that's the gray area. The rules for 1099K's state that company only has to issue them if the amount is over 20,000. Uber sends a 1099K if you do 1 trip for any $ amount. I did less than $20000 with Uber in 2014 and was surprised to receive a 1099K from them. I expected a 1099M or nothing. * As far as we are concerned as drivers receiving the 1099's....No*, it all counts the same towards your gross income. $1 dollar on a 1099K is the same to you as 1$ on a 1099M. Its all self employment income and 100% taxable (after business expenses, deductions, and credits of course). The 1099K will most likely include income that you didn't actually receive like the $1 passenger fee or the 20% that Uber gets. We need to carefully compare our weekly statements with the 1099K and be sure to take all the deductions we're entitled to on the Schedule C. To be safe we should also check any 1099M for accuracy.


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> The 1099-k has the entire fare including the safe rider fee.
> 
> To calculate taxable income the driver lists on schedule C the safe rider fee and Uber's commission as costs (in addition to the driver's other costs of driving).


Thanks for your input.I am not questioning your knowledge but what is the reason they issue two separate forms?K and M?Does uber only reports ONE 1099 K to IRS?


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## UberPartner101 (Feb 5, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> We need to compare the weekly summaries to the 1099K. My guess is that the IRS will issue guidelines for rideshare companies soon and force Uber to issue 1099M's instead of 1099K's. 1099K's were created in 2008 for credit card payments. Uber is in a gray area of the tax law by issuing 1099K's . 1099k's are for"payment processors". They issue 1099K's from Rasier not Uber. Rasier might be considered a credit card payment company but they are most likely owned by Uber....stay tuned the IRS will issue guidelines eventually. My guess is Uber does this to further separate itself from the drivers for liability reasons. We can't be their employees when they don't even pay us. If we kill somebody while working nobody can sue Uber, only Rasier. And I'll bet Rasier has very few assets if any. Does anybody know anything about Raiser? Are they owned by Uber? Do they do payment processing for anyone other than Uber?


Raiser is the subsidiary of Uber that is in charge of UberX. The "insured" on Uber's liability policy to cover UberX is "Raiser". As an UberBlack partner, I have no business with Raiser that I know of. My 1099-K came from Uber Technologies Inc. I also got a 1099-K from Square for my direct credit card charges for my "non-Uber" business. The 1099-K from Square is the correct form because Square actually is a credit card payment processor.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

UberPartner101 said:


> Raiser is the subsidiary of Uber that is in charge of UberX. The "insured" on Uber's liability policy to cover UberX is "Raiser". As an UberBlack partner, I have no business with Raiser that I know of. My 1099-K came from Uber Technologies Inc. I also got a 1099-K from Square for my direct credit card charges for my "non-Uber" business. The 1099-K from Square is the correct form because Square actually is a credit card payment processor.


Thanks for the info


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

arto71 said:


> Thanks for your input.I am not questioning your knowledge but what is the reason they issue two separate forms?K and M?Does uber only reports ONE 1099 K to IRS?


I assume you mean why does Uber issue 1099K's and 1099M's ? I don't know why they issue 1099K's. It seems to me they should only send 1099M's. If they only issued 1099M's it would make driver tax reporting a little bit easier. Whatever form or forms you receive the IRS receives also. If you just get a 1099K or 1099M the IRS gets the exact copy. If you get both they get copies of both also. hope that helps


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> I assume you mean why does Uber issue 1099K's and 1099M's ? I don't know why they issue 1099K's. It seems to me they should only send 1099M's. If they only issued 1099M's it would make driver tax reporting a little bit easier. Whatever form or forms you receive the IRS receives also. If you just get a 1099K or 1099M the IRS gets the exact copy. If you get both they get copies of both also. hope that helps


Yes that's what I meant.i've got 1099K Which shows my total Gross earnings and 1099M
Which shows my referral bonuses to new drivers,passengers,guarantees and $1SRF.Now 
If they report only 1099K I would be ok with that because that's my total gross income is 
but evidently they report both where I have to pay extra taxes .


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

arto71 said:


> Yes that's what I meant.i've got 1099K Which shows my total Gross earnings and 1099M
> Which shows my referral bonuses to new drivers,passengers,guarantees and $1SRF.Now
> If they report only 1099K I would be ok with that because that's my total gross income is
> but evidently they report both where I have to pay extra taxes .


I think I understand. You can probably deduct most of the 1099K income with your mileage dedcution but not so with the 1099M income. Make sure you take all the deductions your entitled to and be sure to deduct anything on that 1099K that you never received like the 20% uber takes. Keep looking for deductions....phone, chargers, tolls, parking, water for pax, accounting software, maybe you took one of your referrals out to lunch to discuss driving for Uber....you might be able to deduct 50% of that!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberPartner101 said:


> Raiser is the subsidiary of Uber that is in charge of UberX. The "insured" on Uber's liability policy to cover UberX is "Raiser". As an UberBlack partner, I have no business with Raiser that I know of. My 1099-K came from Uber Technologies Inc. I also got a 1099-K from Square for my direct credit card charges for my "non-Uber" business. The 1099-K from Square is the correct form because Square actually is a credit card payment processor.


I just got a square reader and took a tip with it today. So I'm curious if you know if square sends the 1099 K regardless of how much you receive or if I need to keep track of that myself since I'm not likely to get $20000 in tips from Uber pax. This will be for this year's taxes not last year's were doing niw. I have been self employed before but never taking credit cards.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

arto71 said:


> Thanks for your input.I am not questioning your knowledge but what is the reason they issue two separate forms?K and M?Does uber only reports ONE 1099 K to IRS?


If you earn referral money, either from referring drivers to Uber or passengers to Uber, that is reported as 1099-MISC because Uber is paying you for those things. The 1099-K is saying all the fares were the rider paying you the driver and Uber is just the collection service, so Uber isn't paying you anything. The safe rider fee and Uber's commission are you paying Uber for the use of their software platform, their leads they send to you, the insurance and the collection services. Uber actually sells absolutely nothing to Uber riders. So to sum up 1099-K is Uber reporting to the government what riders paid you (and they collected being the collection service) and 1099-M is what Uber paid you (and the only thing Uber pays drivers for is referral bonuses).


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## Orlando_Driver (Jul 14, 2014)

I just gave my Uber 1099 to my CPA, let her worry about it


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## moneyforfun (Jan 8, 2015)

Question re 1099k
I started driving the 2nd week of dec 14. Uber paid into my bank acct. $583.67. My 1099k on line 1A (gross pay) was 646.24. Ubers explanation for the difference was $4 tolls and $56 riders fee and misc fees of $2.57. They would not detail the $2.57 in misc fees. On the uber 2014 tax summary is the following breakdown.
Gross Fares (uber fee included) 1 $586.24 which includes the $2.57 misc fees
Tolls $4 Riders fee $56 Total $646.24. Uber fee $146.58 Ubers 25% cut of fare after rider fee deducted.
1 gross fares are calculated as base+time+ distance (this includes the Uber Fee $146.58)
The Uber fee is not included in the gross fares as they state it is in their 2014 summary. Here are my questions
How can a driver deduct as an expense the Uber fee if it is not include on line 1A of the 1099k as uber states it is in its summary?
As an independent contractor as uber defines the driver why isn't the Uber fee included on line 1A as gross pay and the drivers sending 1099s to Uber for their fee so the driver can legally deduct it as an expense.
By Uber stating on the summary that the Uber fee is included in the gross fare they are not being truthful with the IRS and the Drivers. Who is responsible for this dishonesty and possible misreporting to both parties (IRS and Drivers)
Thanks.


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## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Uber will do anything in order to increase their bottom line which includes manipulation, intimidation, lying & stealing.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

moneyforfun said:


> By Uber stating on the summary that the Uber fee is included in the gross fare they are not being truthful with the IRS and the Drivers. Who is responsible for this dishonesty and possible misreporting to both parties (IRS and Drivers)
> Thanks.


Bingo!

Do you realise if you were to rat out uber to the IRS on that you could collect 10% of what the IRS recovers? Course it will take a few years.

Also have an Enrolled Agent of Uber to do your return. That way you will be held harmless by the signature. Just make sure they print there name before signing it.


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## Kamran (Jan 4, 2015)

*The hidden costs of being an Uber driver*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2015/02/20/the-hidden-costs-of-being-an-uber-driver/

its like we are penny drivers


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

By the time one gets done with Schedule C, driving for X, we will all be able to show a Negative on schedule C. Its legal. For five years.


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