# My awful 5 hours at a dealer today



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.

On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.

My service advisor is not at work today. The lady at the reception told me to be rest assured that I would be served by somebody "momentarily". 5 minutes, 10 minutes and so on have passed, yet no one has ever approached me. The reception lady said it was a busy day and would appreciate my patience. After another 10 minutes, I was finally greeted by a service advisor.

After the check-in process, he told me about the $165 diagnostic fee, which I agreed. To my surprise, I could still see my car in the queue after half an hour of nap. At that point, 2 hours have already passed without any progress. It wasn't until an hour later, a specialist came to only tell me "We *think* that the car computer cannot receive any signals. We *are not sure yet* and this is why I come to you. We need your permission for another hour of diagnosis".

At first I was too naive to consider that as a courtesy of progress update. What they wanted indeed, is to *charge another $165* for the additional hour of diagnosis! Do I have another choice? I cannot just go home without knowing what was wrong on my car after investing both time and money!! Fortunately, they eventually found the culprit and recommended the replacement of the spiral cable 5 hours after I stepped into the dealer service department....

The service advisor told me it was impossible to drive the car today because.... basically the front cabin was disassembled. The mechanics have taken off the steering wheel, removed the airbag and the dashboard.... If they knew the diagnostic and repair process is that labour-intensive, why didn't they tell me at the very first hour?? Instead of offering me a loaner car (I always have one for any service that costs 2 hrs+), they told me to find my ride home and come back the following day. As I am typing, I am waiting for my sister to pick me up after her work.

How the dealer handled my case today is unprecedented. There is 0 coordination among people working there and I am not sure if the mechanics and "specialists" know what they are doing. While it is understandable that loaner cars cannot always be available, at least the dealer should have told me to leave and wait for their updates (as opposed to sitting there as a fossil)!!

Before I forget, I was quoted $165 * 2 (2 hours of diagnosis) + 480 (spiral cable & dealer supplies) + 150 (labour). I should be expecting my car ready tomorrow.

A naive question: Doesn't the mechanic has an ipad-like computer that generates an error code after connected to a socket somewhere beneath the steering wheel? What takes the diagnosis so long?

It is nice to know that some members here can work on their own cars. After I get my green card, I want to become a mechanic such that I will never need to visit a dealership again! Before that, however, there are still many days to come to rely on them...


----------



## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

That is shocking to hear that you received service like that from a Lexus dealer. For fifteen years I’ve been using a mechanic who specializes on Lexus cars only and charges significantly less than the dealer. I suggest you find a mechanic like that in your market or use another Lexus dealer. Good luck.


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Dealers are death, they are all scammers. Luxury dealers are the worst. You'd think they want to retain their high-end customers, but they don't, they want to milk you for every last penny as they lie to your face. Avoid them like the plague.

Instead of becoming a mechanic, try to marry one to get your green card. Much more efficient that way.


----------



## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

They obviously broke it during the oil change so they could charge you to fix it the next day. They are unscrupulous and should not be trusted again. Sorry that they are taking advantage of you.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.
> 
> On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you need to start going to a different dealership. Just because it's a Lexus/Toyota dealership doesn't mean they are good quality.

The Toyota dealer close to my house for instance is bad quality so I drive 1/2 hour away to get my car serviced.


----------



## PioneerXi (Apr 20, 2018)

Must be something in the air.

I lost 4 hours yesterday at Firestone as they repaired 3 punctures.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

That is terrible. 

People talking about living in their cars, take note.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

I was at Pep Boys the other day to get an alignment on my sons Camry. The service adviser said they'd get right on it and I'd be out in an hour.

I told him, I'll be in my car charging my phone. Went to my car and after an hour went back inside to find out what's going on.

The original service adviser is on "lunch" but the new one says they went out and couldn't find my car. I start to get pissed and say what do you mean you couldn't find my car? I've been sitting in it for the last hour.

So, then he says well, since we couldn't find your car there is now another car in the bay. You're going to have to wait. Now I'm really starting to get PISSED. I tell him, I have a doctors appointment in an hour and a half. He says OK, come back later.

NOW, I AM REALLY PISSED. I go off on him. 

They expect me to waste more of MY time because of THEIR incompetence. 

HELL, no.

My car was fixed and I drove out of there thirty minutes later. 

People need to complain more and stand their ground about bad service.


----------



## Iloveuberyay (Dec 27, 2017)

observer said:


> I was at Pep Boys the other day to get an alignment on my sons Camry. The service adviser said they'd get right on it and I'd be out in an hour.
> 
> I told him, I'll be in my car charging my phone. Went to my car and after an hour went back inside to find out what's going on.
> 
> ...


Hopefully you dont have to pick up your transmission on the side of the highway later.:smiles:


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> A naive question: Doesn't the mechanic has an ipad-like computer that generates an error code after connected to a socket somewhere beneath the steering wheel?


Yes and no. The code doesn't tell them exactly what's wrong, it gives them a general idea where to look. For example it might say misfire # 6. That could be one or more of any number of items from a bad ground wire to a bad sparkplug or coil to a bad cylinder head. For some issues there could be dozens of causes. Each one has to be checked.

When they get the code, they have a series of test to follow in the manual, usually starting with the most simple possible cause working it's way up. It's like the make your own adventure books. Even if there is no code for your issue they still follow a similar procedure. 
1) Check ground connection at contact 87. 
A) if good go to step #5
B) If bad go to step #2. and so on.

As it gets deeper into the diagnostic procedure it usually gets more involved.

With dealerships, even if they know right off the bat what's wrong, they still charge you however long it would take to diagnose using there steps, whether they do them or not AND they certainly knew once they had to tear your dash apart that it was going to be kept overnight.

This is an issue a good mechanic probably would have figured out right away. Dealerships diagnos and replace parts, thats it. They follow a procedure manual. They dont use common sense.

Find yourself a good mechanic.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Iloveuberyay said:


> Hopefully you dont have to pick up your transmission on the side of the highway later.:smiles:


Actually I spoke to the mechanic as he took it to the bay and he told me they can only do so much. That the SAs overbook more work than the mechanics can do. Pretty much what I figured had happened.

I also slipped him a twenty.

I've worked with dealers quite a bit over the years and know how they work, or don't work.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

The "spiral cable". Lol.

I don't have alot of sympathy. Many women make their way through college dancing tables or in front of a web cam, scamming men out of their hard earned dollars.

Mechanics use the "spiral cable" to get it all back.


----------



## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

OldBay said:


> The "spiral cable". Lol.
> 
> I don't have alot of sympathy. Many women make their way through college dancing tables or in front of a web cam, scamming men out of their hard earned dollars.
> 
> Mechanics use the "spiral cable" to get it all back.


Such a sad misogynist.


----------



## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

OldBay said:


> The "spiral cable". Lol.
> 
> I don't have alot of sympathy. Many women make their way through college dancing tables or in front of a web cam, scamming men out of their hard earned dollars.
> 
> Mechanics use the "spiral cable" to get it all back.


Is it a scam tho? Surely the paying client knows it's going to stay online/on stage and not end in a beautiful marriage?


----------



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

You lost me at "Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change".

Do your own maintenance.


----------



## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

Here's two lesson to all rideshare drivers.

1. Never trust dealserships. They fix one thing and set up another to fail/break. I bought a used car from an Auto nation Toyota dealership and checked it over thoroughly. Everything worked fine. They wash it while I fill out the paperwork then I drive it home. A couple days later at night I notice I have no dome lights. WTF I checked it out before I purchased and they worked fine. I check the fuses and the one for the interior lights is not blown but completely missing. Inserted a spare and no other problems with lights but never been back to dealership for repairs.

2. Toyota's are notorious for using soybean based wiring covering in the wiring harness and electronics. My van was having some real problems with a temperature gauge not working. Ran code and ordered replacement from amazon. When I went to replace I saw that some rodent ate the wiring to the gauge on one side of the connector. I was lucky that I could uncoil the wiring a little from the harness and splice it back together.

Did some research and rodents love eating soy based wiring but hate peppermint smell. So now I spray and clean my engine compartment with a solution made with peppermint oil/extract once a month.


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.
> 
> On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.
> 
> ...


They broke it so they can fix it :thumbup: quite common actually. When you walked into the dealership they saw dollar signs and dollars is what they got. They damaged the wire themselves so it was either that day it failed or a few days afterwards but couldn't outright sever it as it would of registered right away on pick up.

Get someone else that is mechanically minded to take it into the dealership for any services or work to be done. Otherwise this will happen every time and I think you got off lucky... Usually they want $1000-$3000.

I bought a car off the dealership and didn't get the "extended warranty service" on pick up after the car and a couple of days driving had no Aircon. Got an aircon specialist to look at it and sure enough... A hole in the compressor :roflmao: cost me almost $1400 to replace the compressor plus labor which was inline with the extended warranty. They always make their money! ✔

Oh... There is only ever the 1 diagnostic fee... They tried it on for size to get a 2 for 1 deal.
You might want to get the car checked out by another mechanic fully to see if anything else haven't been done to it so your not walking back into the dealership a month from now needing an engine replacement, transmission replacement or a whole new car.


----------



## MajorBummer (Aug 10, 2019)

If your "Check engine" light is on ,most Dealers will charge you $100 or more to "diagnose" the problem.
In my area, Auto Zone and Advanced Auto part stores offer to do it for free.
Luckily I have a good mechanic,who does it for free too.


----------



## BadYota (Aug 7, 2019)

I think there is something wrong with new Toyota’s and Lexus because the same thing happened to me yesterday! I changed my oil 2 days ago on my 18 Camry and the next morning every code tripped and I was in limp mode on the road, couldn’t go more than 20 mph! it took multiple times of turning the car off and on for the code to finally go away. I think you got ripped off and undoubtably had to pay an enormous repair bill for probably something as simple as a computer glitch. These computers are so complex now days in cars that pretty soon nobody will be able to work on them or understand how they function.

What year and model is your Lexus?


----------



## DontCaravan (Jan 16, 2018)

I've got a 2018 Prius. Great car. 115,000 miles, zero problems, 58mpg average. 

The only time there has been problems is at the dealer.

They blew up the computer one time doing a software update. Had the mechanic on the dash cam eating his lunch in my driver's seat and joking around with his friends. I put the video on the Toyota Reddit group and they explained that he didn't follow the update procedure steps. No car for a week. I was so mad when it happened I told them I didn't want their loaner and walked 8 miles home to blow off the steam.

Another time I checked the video and a nitwit was jamming the crap out of trying to get it on the lift. He was yelling "F*** the Prius!" over and over. 

I've been going to private mechanics now and I question their expertise with the hybrids.Toyota's are great for the exception of getting maintenance done.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.
> 
> On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.
> 
> ...


When you have a fancy car
you get fancy repair bills
It sucks but that's how it is....


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

MajorBummer said:


> If your "Check engine" light is on ,most Dealers will charge you $100 or more to "diagnose" the problem.
> In my area, Auto Zone and Advanced Auto part stores offer to do it for free.
> Luckily I have a good mechanic,who does it for free too.


No, the dash did not light up as a Christmas tree. In fact, I have never seen the "engine light" in any of my cars. Actually I do not feel anything wrong for a diagnostic fee but what the Lexus dealer did yesterday is completely unacceptable.



BadYota said:


> What year and model is your Lexus?


My car is pretty aged now. A 2004 LS 430 that comes with 0 fancy technology. However if you factor the time when the car was made, self-activated windshield wipers, cruise control, heat/cooled front&rear seats are probably something that was state-of-the-art back then....

To be honest, I am proud of my car. Given its age, this is only my 2nd (3rd?) repair bill after 4 years of ownership. The first time was about the replacement of door actuator 2 years ago which costed me $600+. This year it fails again but I bought the part from ebay and got it replaced by a mechanic referred by my friend ($160 parts +120 labour). I am very satisfied in pocketing the difference from the dealer price and it also gives me a sense of satisfaction - somehow I am involved in fixing my car &#128522; !!

May be it is just me, this is love and affection. I believe a lot others may not even bother spending $ in a car of that age but to endure the inconvenience to unlock the front passenger door manually. Then this cruise control issue came up yesterday.... Again, most people may simply put their foot on the pedal. I know I am spoiled by my car.

@Immoralized and @TemptingFate
A question if I may. How can an oil-change procedure damage the spiral cable? I have watched my stepdad changing the oil once. It only involves lifting the car by a jack and the draining procedures are pretty much done under the car. Then he added the new oil through an inlet under the hood....



DontCaravan said:


> I've got a 2018 Prius. Great car. 115,000 miles, zero problems, 58mpg average.


It must be nice to have a car with such high fuel economy. My cars only have combined 17 mpg (2004) and 20 mpg (2015) at their best.



25rides7daysaweek said:


> When you have a fancy car
> you get fancy repair bills
> It sucks but that's how it is....


How is this fair? I bet the diagnostic and repair protocols should be standardized regardless of the manufacturers.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> @Immoralized and @TemptingFate
> A question if I may. How can an oil-change procedure damage the spiral cable? I have watched my stepdad changing the oil once. It only involves lifting the car by a jack and the draining procedures are pretty much done under the car. Then he added the new oil through an inlet under the hood....


I believe some full-service repair places who do oil changes may opportunistically inspect other parts of the car to look for more work to do. My car dealer does this for warranty service and I'll bet they do it for out-of-warranty service as well.

Some repair shops only look at the parts you ask them to, and others are looking for an up-sell.


----------



## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> A question if I may. How can an oil-change procedure damage the spiral cable


They intentionally sabotage the car to generate revenue.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

PioneerXi said:


> Must be something in the air.
> 
> I lost 4 hours yesterday at Firestone as they repaired 3 punctures.


How did you get 3 punctures&#129300;


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> @Immoralized and @TemptingFate
> A question if I may. How can an oil-change procedure damage the spiral cable? I have watched my stepdad changing the oil once. It only involves lifting the car by a jack and the draining procedures are pretty much done under the car. Then he added the new oil through an inlet under the hood....


Just do the math. Your car was running a hundred percent fine without any problem with it before going into service and as soon as the service was done something happened and in your case right after service as you didn't even make it back to your place. Cars rarely go from running a hundred percent to cutting out on the freeway and stalling and a whole host of warning lights going off on the dashboard. It one in maybe ten thousand chance that it might happen just like you can fall in the shower and trip then die.

Unlikely but can happen. However the circumstances you experience seem to be linked to your service and dealership. I'll go so far as to say they created the opportunity to make as much $$$ off you because they saw you as an easy target to do such a thing. Simply doing a car service that includes an oil & filter change is completely routine and doesn't cause any damage to the vehicle unless you have people that doing a service to create those problems and it quite easy to do so. Tamper with a few wires and a few sensors & it pay day.

Unfortunately women get taken advantage off by mechanics, by electricians and most other professionals. Your car battery might need replacement.... Okay his going to charge you 4 hours labors & the cost of the battery so it be $600. The power went out and a simple switch or fuse might need replacement "Generally around a hundred" but if he can do it and try it on he'll say that be $600 again. It bad but it happens all the time.

My mother got screwed over by the mechanic when she took her car in for a service. Told her timing belt needed to be changed and a whole host of other things got her for a grand. A year later it sounded like the belt was about to come off and the engine was misfiring... I took a look at it and yep old timing belt and never changed but charged her for it. Work that needed to be done paid for the work to be done but didn't do it however took the $$$. That another thing. They may tell you work that needs to be done and should be done and charge you for it but don't do the work.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

DontCaravan said:


> I've got a 2018 Prius. Great car. 115,000 miles, zero problems, 58mpg average.
> 
> The only time there has been problems is at the dealer.
> 
> ...


I was distracted by your first few lines. I think it read , 2018 and 115,000 miles&#128513;


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

ok here is the deal. cruse control easy diag .
If you now what your doing. Just attach the dealer computer into the aldl port ... that port thats under the dash on the drivers side . 
plug it in . Click a few buttons go directly into the test section then click cruse control . Pull up codes . This diag should take 30 minutes or less total including the tech doing research in his lab top .
Pulling an entire dash is total bull shit . Why not pull the entire engine ? pull the transmission ? take off the hood ? wtf where does it end ? This mechanic had zero idea what he was doing . And no i would not of paid another 150 again. ( UNLESS THE COST OF DIAG GOES INTO THE COST OF TOTAL REPAIRS ) I used to do the first half hour for free and if it required more i charged the additional hour 80 bucks to figure it out and no i would not role that 80 into the repairs they already got 30 minutes for free. 
Typical electrical repair diag is 30 minutes in total.
Hopefully you can use my reply as advice with your dealer some how .
and a oil change causing this lol. You pull the filter off drain the oil fill the oil . reset the trip light .No its not from the oil change lol .
There are zero wires under the car for the cruse control. Come to think of it there are zero wires behind the dash . 
Its typically a switch problem shorting out .


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

kingcorey321 said:


> ok here is the deal. cruse control easy diag .
> If you now what your doing. Just attach the dealer computer into the aldl port ... that port thats under the dash on the drivers side .
> plug it in . Click a few buttons go directly into the test section then click cruse control . Pull up codes . This diag should take 30 minutes or less total including the tech doing research in his lab top .
> Pulling an entire dash is total bull shit . Why not pull the entire engine ? pull the transmission ? take off the hood ? wtf where does it end ? This mechanic had zero idea what he was doing . And no i would not of paid another 150 again. ( UNLESS THE COST OF DIAG GOES INTO THE COST OF TOTAL REPAIRS ) I used to do the first half hour for free and if it required more i charged the additional hour 80 bucks to figure it out and no i would not role that 80 into the repairs they already got 30 minutes for free.
> ...


Find a local Japanese car repair shop . Shop is usually owned by a veteran Toyota mechanic.


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

mbd said:


> Find a local Japanese car repair shop . Shop is usually owned by a veteran Toyota mechanic.


dealers are always taking advantage of people . They supply the worst service in the industry . 
Only reason to go to the dealer is for warranty or recalls .
I have 3 recalls on one of my cars and its not going to the dealer for the repairs i just know better then taking it in.
It wont be correct when i get it back.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

All mechanics in the shop don't get the same pay . It is flag hours, they will get guaranteed weekly pay , but lot of times they will try to give the job to a lower paid mechanic to save $$$.
Most of the shops don't have enough mechanics . Mercedes mechanics are specially trained, but most dealership just hire from local mechanic school. Those mechanics don't have the hands on experience . Most of them are learning by working on your car.&#128513;



kingcorey321 said:


> dealers are always taking advantage of people . They supply the worst service in the industry .
> Only reason to go to the dealer is for warranty or recalls .
> I have 3 recalls on one of my cars and its not going to the dealer for the repairs i just know better then taking it in.
> It wont be correct when i get it back.


I knew somebody who was working at the Mercedes dealership, he was a service manager.He gets bonus on the service $$$. They will recommend changes, that is not illegal &#128513;
TSLA is probably recommending oil changes to its fan boy base&#128513; and they pay for it. It is cool&#128526;


----------



## DontCaravan (Jan 16, 2018)

mbd said:


> I was distracted by your first few lines. I think it read , 2018 and 115,000 miles&#128513;


Nope, that's what it has. It runs like the day I bought it too.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> When you have a fancy car
> you get fancy repair bills
> It sucks but that's how it is....


If you go to fancy parties, you can always exaggerate your cost to repair your vehicle &#128513; Don't buy 2000$ Gucci handbags, just talk about the 4000$ repair bill&#128513;


----------



## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

I changed my own oil as an international student at the age of 19.
I never had anyone else change my cars' oil since.

Oil change is a dirty work, but I have the piece of mind to know that it was done right.

I'm with the other guys, find yourself a trusted mechanic instead using a dealership. I worked at dealership, the turn over rate of mechanics/advisors is very high, right behind the car salesman. Also, most mechanic have little to no experience working on a car two generation ago due to the high turn over rate.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

When she was in for the oil change, they installed the sabotaged "spiral cable".

She comes back. They charge her two hours of diagnostics. Charge her for a new "spiral cable". Charge her two hours labor for a five minute swap. They make $1000.

They save the defective spiral cable to install on another woman's car.

As an aside, this is why there are lemon laws. The phenomenon of a "lemon" is when the dealership goes crazy finding/breaking and fixing things on a new car. They are getting rich by submitting unlimited warranty claims. They know because its under warranty, the customer will come back to them.

Lemon laws are designed to stop this abuse. Ever wonder why a particular car would have endless issues? Dealer sabotage.


----------



## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

OldBay said:


> The "spiral cable". Lol.





OldBay said:


> When she was in for the oil change, they installed the sabotaged "spiral cable".
> 
> She comes back. They charge her two hours of diagnostics. Charge her for a new "spiral cable". Charge her two hours labor for a five minute swap. They make $1000.


The spiral cable is a real thing although I agree they sabotaged Jessica's car.
https://oards.com/spiral-cable-working-principle-bad-symptoms-and-replacement-cost/


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

I'm actually surprised the stealership is still even interested in working on a 16-year old car. Most aren't. And I think @MyJessicaLS430, you'd be much better served by finding a reputable independent mechanic shop for your ride. Not to mention saving quite a lot of moolah.

Also, the stealership charging you for two hours of diagnostics after you agree to them to fix it is a big pile of bovine manure.


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

@Immoralized and @kingcorey321

If the dealer did what you said to me, isn't that criminal? They broke something that was original functional and charged me for the fabricated repair? Are these dealers regulated by law at all? One thing I don't understand is that the cruise control worked as always on Wednesday after the oil change. It only became defective yesterday morning. Shouldn't the cruise control fail right after the oil change?

All maintenance was performed at the same dealer where I bought the car from every 5000 miles. Each maintenance service includes oil changes, top-off fluids and tyre rotations ($170). I have also got the brake jobs done ($360 for brake pad replacement and $170 for brake fluid replacement) and new tyres ($200/tyre + $150 alignment) there. The milestone 90k-mile service was also performed (replacement of timing belt and water pumps for ~$2000 after $150 coupon) there without any problems until yesterday. My car has always been in its top shape and runs new as in 2004 when it was made...

The major reason why I visit the dealership is that all their technicians are "Lexus-certified"; if what they claim is true. It is certainly a deception if they hire any mechanic to work on the cars and charging us maintenance / repair at Lexus price.

After this incident, I have to become a mechanic myself but is currently infeasible due to my visa restrictions. Where/Who do you all learn fixing cars from?



TomTheAnt said:


> I'm actually surprised the stealership is still even interested in working on a 16-year old car. Most aren't. And I think @MyJessicaLS430, you'd be much better served by finding a reputable independent mechanic shop for your ride. Not to mention saving quite a lot of moolah.
> 
> Also, the stealership charging you for two hours of diagnostics after you agree to them to fix it is a big pile of bovine manure.


I like your word "stealership". I feel like I was "robbed voluntarily". Why doesn't the dealer want to work on my car? There is no such concept as "too many customers" for a business, right? As I said, I do find it is reasonable to pay a diagnostic fee because they do need to do the work to find out the culprit but the experience as a whole yesterday is definitely a thumbs down for Lexus. I would say it is more reasonable to give me an estimated time of diagnosis and repair, not hour after hour of endless wait. In my case, the dealer left me no choice but to pay another $165 for the 2nd hour of diagnosis. This is what I was unhappy about.

My other Lexus (2015 LWB) was bought as a CPO that comes with 2 years of warranty. At least at this stage, I won't worry much. From what I experienced yesterday, now I doubt if the 161-point inspection that Lexus is proud of, was done correctly at all....


----------



## BadYota (Aug 7, 2019)

You need to contact Scotty Kilmer on this BS dealership story!


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Why doesn't the dealer want to work on my car?


Because most of the time the work on newer cars is more profitable for them. You'd tend to think the older the car gets, the more there is to work on, but when they get old enough some specific parts even get discontinued, so they might not even fix something for you. And to keep mechanics trained on older vehicles cost money, too.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> @Immoralized and @kingcorey321
> 
> If the dealer did what you said to me, isn't that criminal? They broke something that was original functional and charged me for the fabricated repair? Are these dealers regulated by law at all? One thing I don't understand is that the cruise control worked as always on Wednesday after the oil change. It only became defective yesterday morning. Shouldn't the cruise control fail right after the oil change?
> 
> ...


Tire rotations and flat repair are free if you get tires from anybody
Tires - 125/150$
Timing belts- it can easily get you 150,000 miles ...they scare people to do it 100,000&#128521;
161 pt inspection &#128513;- that includes opening the door, hood, starting your vehicle, sitting in the seat , turning on the radio, turning on the ac, reversing , drive, turning your left signal, right signal , calling your name and hello
If you just email to the top person at the dealership, you should get some of your money back. Include better business bureau into the topic &#128521;
If that does not work, tell them you are a UP. Net member&#128539; 100% refund


----------



## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> All maintenance was performed at the same dealer where I bought the car from every 5000 miles. Each maintenance service includes oil changes, top-off fluids and tyre rotations ($170). I have also got the brake jobs done ($360 for brake pad replacement and $170 for brake fluid replacement) and new tyres ($200/tyre + $150 alignment) there. The milestone 90k-mile service was also performed (replacement of timing belt and water pumps for ~$2000 after $150 coupon) there without any problems until yesterday. My car has always been in its top shape and runs new as in 2004 when it was made...


In the case of oil changes, brake pads and brake fluid changes, take your LS to a Toyota dealer. They'll use the same synthetic oil, cheaper labor rate and ends up costing you less. The Lexus dealer rate is significantly higher. Still updates your service history if you are worried about proving work done for resale down the track.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.
> 
> On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.
> 
> ...


Are you part of the Toyota Lexus recall for fuel pump? They may be trying to jack up your cost to cover their cost


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Once the warranty is done, so is my relationship with the dealer!


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

360 for brake pads.. ouch.

I doubt they sabotaged your clock spring, they do go. Where they robbed you was the 2 hours @ $165 to diagnose it. As I was rreading your post I thought toyself it sounds like the clock spring. You probably lost use of some of the controls on your steering wheel too. Right? Radio controls. volume, horn, etc. I'm no certified mechanic and that is the second thing I would have checked after fuses.

Talk to some people you know that you trust Find a mechanic who has his own shop. You'll save so much $ on these things.

Certified Lexus tech just means they can follow instructions in a book. Read a multi meter a d turn a wrench, really. When you bring your car in they follow a book, step by step. They dont use common sense, there job is to run up the hours. Brake pads cost $60-80 for the good ones for all 4, I can do them in an hour. The hardest part is pulling the tires off.

Edit clock spring = spiral cable.



Daisey77 said:


> Are you part of the Toyota Lexus recall for fuel pump?


I used to think along this line myself until recently. Dealerships are separate privately owned companies from the brand. Dealerships love warranty work, they get paid from the automaker. Its guaranteed money.


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

criminal not know wtf your doing at a job is not a crime .
Did you get this problem fixed ? and Its impossible a oil changed caused this problem .
As i said before . attach the dealer scanner go for a road test play with the switches read the data . It will mess up and the scanner will record the error . Easy diagnostic .


----------



## Mtbsrfun (May 25, 2019)

Boca Ratman said:


> 360 for brake pads.. ouch.
> 
> I doubt they sabotaged your clock spring, they do go. Where they robbed you was the 2 hours @ $165 to diagnose it. As I was rreading your post I thought toyself it sounds like the clock spring. You probably lost use of some of the controls on your steering wheel too. Right? Radio controls. volume, horn, etc. I'm no certified mechanic and that is the second thing I would have checked after fuses.
> 
> ...


Hahahahaha mechanics hate warranty work because it's flat rate.
IE: Volvo t6 motor recall 18hr estimate 
Actual : 38hr 
would you enjoy working 20 hours for free? It happens to dealers on warranty work all the time.


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

mbd said:


> If you go to fancy parties, you can always exaggerate your cost to repair your vehicle &#128513; Don't buy 2000$ Gucci handbags, just talk about the 4000$ repair bill&#128513;


I cannot afford luxuries like Gucci. However, since you brought up handbags....

This is one of my collections&#128522;. I have only brought 2 with me when I moved to the States.










Manufactured by a company called Samantha Thavasa, these stunning handbags only cost a fraction of the luxurious counterparts. This company has several different sub-brands. For example, Samantha Vega makes cheaper handbags that target the younger customers; Samantha Tiara makes watches and accessories. My watch and wallet are also products of Samantha but the thread may then help to promote the company for free if I post their pictures too. My last time visiting in Japan was in 2016. I miss their products &#128557;!!



Boca Ratman said:


> 360 for brake pads.. ouch.
> 
> You probably lost use of some of the controls on your steering wheel too. Right? Radio controls. volume, horn, etc. I'm no certified mechanic and that is the second thing I would have checked after fuses.


Sometimes the dealer offers promotion which customers can enjoy 15-50% discount of the recommend service. Unfortunately, those promotions are usually unavailable when I need the service. The only 2 occasions that I receive those benefits were oil change for $40 and drive out with 4 new tyres for $1000 including alignment.

Back to your question, every component functions properly. Turn signals,

Thank you all for your replies and comments. I have picked up my beloved car this afternoon &#128522;. It is actually surprising that the dealer did not charge me for the labour putting everything back in place.

Cruise control is back at my service!


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> How is this fair? I bet the diagnostic and repair protocols should be standardized regardless of the manufacturers.


And you could not be more wrong. Diagnostic procedures can be different between vehicles, models, made by the same company, those diagnostic procedures also change based on what the error codes tell them, and what the driver/owner tells the SA, and how exp. the mechanic is.

A failing cable, unless you have the old part, you have no idea if they messed with it or not, and even then it would be very difficult to determine. First off, you are driving a 16 yr old luxury car, it's going to start having issues, they are going to get more and more expensive. That the dealer charged you $165 for a diagnostic fee, how much do you think an Indy Mechanic is going to charge? Most shops in my area, diagnostic fee ranges from $99/hr to $175/hr, go to a good Audi, MB, Porsche or Land Rover Indy, and expect to pay upwards of $200/hr and typically they adjust the final repair price to include the diagnostic fee as part of the repair.

I'll use my semi as an example, when the transmission failed on my semi, since I'm the only who has been driving it for all 430,000 miles, I told the SA what exactly it had been doing for the previous 10K miles before it failed. What I told the SA, he had me write down for the mechanic to read. When the mechanic hooked the laptop up, which reads potentially 7,000 different potential diagnostic codes, faults, errors, etc., it told him something completely different. He replaced the part that the diagnostic manual and the laptop told him were bad, they returned the truck two days later. Within 300 miles, I was on the side of the highway, waiting for a $2,500 tow bill, the transmission failed again, for the exact same reason. When we got back, with the exact same failure, he went through every procedure again, and came to the same conclusion. He then went to the Service Manager, who called me on the phone and asked for information. When the mechanic couldn't figure it out, he went to the senior mechanic, with more than 30 yrs exp. on these trucks, told him what it was doing, what they had replaced, what the diagnostics said. The senior mechanic patted him on the back, read the codes, then ran 5 or 6 more diagnostic checks on the laptop, he also crawled into, onto, and under the truck, poked, probed, started it up, listened to it, etc., before coming back with a completely different diagnosis, which resulted in the transmission being pulled and replaced, because the part next to and attached to the sensor that said the other part was bad, was actually bad, and required more a more knowledgeable mechanic to diagnose. Volvo and Mack trucks are owned by the same company, many parts are shared between the trucks, but the diagnostic procedures are totally different, require different steps, have different codes, different error codes, and often times, the same item failing will make a different sound depending on the vehicle.



MyJessicaLS430 said:


> @Immoralized and @kingcorey321
> 
> If the dealer did what you said to me, isn't that criminal? They broke something that was original functional and charged me for the fabricated repair? Are these dealers regulated by law at all? One thing I don't understand is that the cruise control worked as always on Wednesday after the oil change. It only became defective yesterday morning. Shouldn't the cruise control fail right after the oil change?


The odds of a dealership intentionally breaking something so you have to come back to have it fixed are slim to nil, not only is it criminal, but they will lose their dealership, Toyota/Lexus will shut them down in a heart beat. Parts fail, you have a 16 yr old vehicle, PARTS FAIL. BTW, here's comparison of how laughable this is. Two years ago, had my wife's Buick in for an oil change, the next morning she calls and tells me she's got multiple lights on the dash: ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, Check Engine. I call the dealer, they have the car towed in (it was still under warranty), mechanic hooks up the laptop, runs the programs. According to the laptop, there was a failure in the ABS system, it took the mechanic 2 hours to track down the culprit, a mouse had chewed through the ABS wire in the left front, because the wire was so high up in the suspension, it would not fail, until the car was put on the rack, and the suspension allowed to "droop" while they changed the oil. Once the car was put back on the ground, the wire became even more frayed and allowed to rub on the control during the 15 mile drive home. When she started the car the next morning, initially it was fine, then 2 miles into her commute it failed. Now, I suppose, based on the logic here, I should blame the dealer, maybe they "broke" the wire and made it look like a mouse chewed on it (talented mechanic, as I was given the old part). Again, parts fail. Oh, and you're complaining about $700 to fix this spiral cable, that ABS cable was $1,500 to replace, the friggin' mouse chewed it above the main connector, they had to tear apart the left front suspension, remove the fender liner, all to get to the main engine compartment wiring harness, so the mechanic could fix it, which involved cutting/splicing wires, in a specific manner per GM, in order for the car to remain under warranty. $700, wait till your heater core or A/C evaporator core fails, your talking $3,000 for repairs and two to three days without a vehicle.



MyJessicaLS430 said:


> All maintenance was performed at the same dealer where I bought the car from every 5000 miles. Each maintenance service includes oil changes, top-off fluids and tyre rotations ($170). I have also got the brake jobs done ($360 for brake pad replacement and $170 for brake fluid replacement) and new tyres ($200/tyre + $150 alignment) there. The milestone 90k-mile service was also performed (replacement of timing belt and water pumps for ~$2000 after $150 coupon) there without any problems until yesterday. My car has always been in its top shape and runs new as in 2004 when it was made...
> 
> The major reason why I visit the dealership is that all their technicians are "Lexus-certified"; if what they claim is true. It is certainly a deception if they hire any mechanic to work on the cars and charging us maintenance / repair at Lexus price.


Every dealer, manufacturer has a different definition of what "factory certified" means. The kid straight out of WyoTech (auto repair college) is technically GM/Ford/Toyota/Lexus/Volvo/BMW/Porsche certified. After they have been with the dealer a few months, and proven willing to work, then they will start going to specialized training.



MyJessicaLS430 said:


> I like your word "stealership". I feel like I was "robbed voluntarily". Why doesn't the dealer want to work on my car? There is no such concept as "too many customers" for a business, right? As I said, I do find it is reasonable to pay a diagnostic fee because they do need to do the work to find out the culprit but the experience as a whole yesterday is definitely a thumbs down for Lexus. I would say it is more reasonable to give me an estimated time of diagnosis and repair, not hour after hour of endless wait. In my case, the dealer left me no choice but to pay another $165 for the 2nd hour of diagnosis. This is what I was unhappy about.
> 
> My other Lexus (2015 LWB) was bought as a CPO that comes with 2 years of warranty. At least at this stage, I won't worry much. From what I experienced yesterday, now I doubt if the 161-point inspection that Lexus is proud of, was done correctly at all....


The example that I gave above regarding my wife's Buick is exactly why dealers cannot always give a flat, upfront diagnostic fee. Some places will/do, they may then "pad" the total at the end to make up part of that, or they might jack the price of the part to offset it. Why doesn't the dealer want to work on your car, it's 16 yrs old, it's "harder" for them to work on, they know that know matter what they charge you, you will find some reason to complain. They would rather work on the flat rate warranty vehicle that the manufacturer is going to tell pay them a set amount, no questions asked.


----------



## UpNorth (Sep 15, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.
> 
> On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.
> 
> ...


As being a former dealer tech to service manager it's true diagnosis connection and computer will set codes but it's a direction to start to checking out the problem. Most modern techs rely on the computer to tell them what's wrong, they have been trained that way. The techs don't actually know how each component works and ties into the computers function. That's diagnostic charge was ridiculous, if a tech can't diagnosis the problem in an hour or less he or she's not qualify to work on your car. I was a master factory trained tech except major electrical problems an hour was plenty time. Often service managers hire less qualified techs while they may have a master tech or two to get there warranty work cleared by the manufacturer. Customer paid work you get what's available. The less qualified tech gets paid less making diagnostic and repairs more profitable. Most service managers today our paperwork pushers not trained techs that's moved to management and knows all the vehicles that they service very well he she has been there done it


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Yesterday I went to the dealer for an oil change. For the first time in my life, I have visited the same dealer 2 days in a row.
> 
> On the way to work today on the interstate, my car suddenly could not maintain the speed itself. Having the cruise control and the engine turned on/off multiple times, the green "cruise light" still did not light up. After a 20-mile drive to the dealer, this is the service that I never expect from Lexus.
> 
> ...


So here's how you get even , find persons car who screwed you , take barbecue skewer and .................. , then you will be even , sidewalls are the key , this one sounds like all 4 should make it an even trade, just sayin


----------



## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

Make sure you ask for your old parts they took off your car. 
You own them and they can't deny you of them. 

I would take what part they give you to another shop and see if it's even off your vehicle. 

They might not of even changed the cable and just give your a random one from a different car when you ask. 

They will take advantage of woman. Especially one that might have a accent and is by herself. 

If you went in dressed move looking like you have money, maybe they thought you could afford it so they took advantage of you?


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

@Frontier Guy
I think you may have misunderstood me. For a 16-year old car, it is already impressive enough without giving me any surprise repair bills. All I have so far is the replacement of door actuators and the most recent spiral cable (manually locking the front passenger door and maintaining speed by putting the foot on pedal may not sound like a problem for many). I am certainly aware of the fact that parts will eventually fair with age. Hence, what I complain is not the cost of repair but rather the experience at the dealer. They have a legitimate reason for charging a diagnostic fee but I find it completely unacceptable to keep me waiting instead of telling me to leave and wait for their updates.

How often do you see German luxury cars with similar age as mine on the road? Of course, there are and I have seen a few but not many. I am very satisfied with Lexus reliability. Actually I think my car can actually live longer than I do.

How did you solve the mice issue to prevent chewing the parts again just curious ?

@Iann
I have picked up my car already and the cruise control works perfectly now. What can I do with the original part, assuming that the dealer still keeps that ?

@Ubertool I have no idea of what the barbecue and skewer is about. Would you mind to elaborate?


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> @Frontier Guy
> I think you may have misunderstood me. For a 16-year old car, it is already impressive enough without giving me any surprise repair bills. All I have so far is the replacement of door actuators and the most recent spiral cable (manually locking the front passenger door and maintaining speed by putting the foot on pedal may not sound like a problem for many). I am certainly aware of the fact that parts will eventually fair with age. Hence, what I complain is not the cost of repair but rather the experience at the dealer. They have a legitimate reason for charging a diagnostic fee but I find it completely unacceptable to keep me waiting instead of telling me to leave and wait for their updates.
> 
> How often do you see German luxury cars with similar age as mine on the road? Of course, there are and I have seen a few but not many. I am very satisfied with Lexus reliability. Actually I think my car can actually live longer than I do.
> ...


Use your imagination as the air comes out of the tire


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Doesn't the mechanic has an ipad-like computer that generates an error code after connected


he was playing angry birds on it.


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Ardery said:


> he was playing angry birds on it.


And the birds were replaced with these $$$$$


----------



## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

@MyJessicaLS430

It's about keeping people honest.
When you have work done by a mechanic, always ask to have the old part placed in the box for the new part. It's one way to help ensure the work was actually done.

If you have a mechanic replace something on your car, make sure to ask for your old part back. Additionally, ask that the old part be placed in the box for the new part. This confirms the old part was removed and the new part installed. Unfortunately, there are some unethical mechanics who may try to charge you for work not done correctly, and it could end up costing you double if you have to pay for the repair all over again. Asking for your parts back will help ensure that the mechanic is being held accountable for doing the repair, and will also give you that added peace of mind and confirmation that the part replacement and work were done to your car.

On some cars you can unclip the cruise control cable from the transmission. 
That would make it not able to work. 
Would cost alot to repair. 
Easy to clip it back into place when the customer comes back in paying for a new cable and install fee.


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Iann said:


> @MyJessicaLS430
> 
> It's about keeping people honest.
> When you have work done by a mechanic, always ask to have the old part placed in the box for the new part. It's one way to help ensure the work was actually done.
> ...


you can ask to see the part, but you cannot ask to keep it. a lot of parts, well some parts, have a core-charge... and must be returned.


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Make sure to have em check the flux capacitor for you , they will thank me later, all joking aside , never trust a dealership , they are trained to up sell you on shit you don’t need, find a good local mechanic and get second opinions if things feel shady


----------



## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

Ardery said:


> you can ask to see the part, but you cannot ask to keep it. a lot of parts, well some parts, have a core-charge... and must be returned.


Bullcrap! You own the part, they cannot keep it.

That's why you see core charges.


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Ubertool said:


> Make sure to have em check the flux capacitor for you , they will thank me later, all joking aside , never trust a dealership , they are trained to up sell you on shit you don't need, find a good local mechanic and get second opinions if things feel shady


local mechanics not able to do as much in diagnosis... as newer cars, especially the more expensive models, require the factory plug-in computer-reader.


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Not true , all things are online , I personally can fix anything on all my vehicles just from you tube and advise from my family members suggestions as 2 have been building race cars and working on cars at dealerships for 40 and 30 years respectively


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Ubertool said:


> Not true , all things are online , I personally can fix anything on all my vehicles just from you tube and advise from my family members suggestions as 2 have been building race cars and working on cars at dealerships for 40 and 30 years respectively


all CURRENT model cars' diagnoses are all online? all?

a lot of the *NEW* cars need the factory plug in tool.

no getting around it.


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

In my case yes. I have access through family who work at dealers , you , maybe not


----------



## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

I do all my own maintenance. It's dirty, but, at least I know the job is done right.


----------



## Charlesw62 (Feb 20, 2020)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> No, the dash did not light up as a Christmas tree. In fact, I have never seen the "engine light" in any of my cars. Actually I do not feel anything wrong for a diagnostic fee but what the Lexus dealer did yesterday is completely unacceptable.
> 
> My car is pretty aged now. A 2004 LS 430 that comes with 0 fancy technology. However if you factor the time when the car was made, self-activated windshield wipers, cruise control, heat/cooled front&rear seats are probably something that was state-of-the-art back then....
> 
> ...


I feel your pain, sort of. I have a 2016 LS600h L since new. Basic maintenance is expensive but fortunately, I have had zero repairs for any breakage. I'm still within my 6 yr/70k power train warranty.



Ardery said:


> you can ask to see the part, but you cannot ask to keep it. a lot of parts, well some parts, have a core-charge... and must be returned.


Most brake calipers, alternators and other parts that can be rebuilt will likely need to have the cores returned, but that does not mean you cannot inspect the old part, IF you know what you're looking at. (You can always fake it). You just can't keep it.


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Charlesw62 said:


> I feel your pain, sort of. I have a 2016 LS600h L since new. Basic maintenance is expensive but fortunately, I have had zero repairs for any breakage. I'm still within my 6 yr/70k power train warranty.


You have a LS 600hL&#128563;&#128563;?? How did you find such an unicorn!!?? You must be rich since it should have costed you $120k+ with the executive package!! I feel happy for you with such a fine car. What is it like at the rear seat with ottoman and massage? However, have you ever considered the need of battery replacement some day (it probably will not fail within the warranty period)?

Believe or not, my 2004 LS 430 never gives me any jaw-dropping repair bills other than the minor replacements such as the door actuators and spiral cable as I mentioned previously. I would say the cost of maintenance is almost nothing (regular oil changes, $360 brake job, the lucky occasion getting the "$1000 drive out" promotion with 4 new tyres and the $2000 90K mile service for timing belt + water pump job). There are no issues with the suspension yet compared with the LS 460s infamous for $$$ control arm replacement. This is why I traded in my 2011 for an upgrade to current 2015 460L that comes with a 2-year warranty as a CPO. I hope this car will be as reliable as my 430!


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Iann said:


> Bullcrap! You own the part, they cannot keep it.
> 
> That's why you see core charges.


Of course you can keep it but on some parts they will charge you a core charge, alternator, starter, rack and pinion, clutches, ac compressors, some axles, brake boosters etc.

Also on some core parts the original boxes have to be returned with the core or it won't be accepted.

If there is a core charge and you leave the part, the core charge should be deducted from the total.

BTW, I have seen cores that cost more than the parts they replaced because they are scarce.


----------



## XLnoGas (Dec 20, 2019)

observer said:


> Actually I spoke to the mechanic as he took it to the bay and he told me they can only do so much. That the SAs overbook more work than the mechanics can do. Pretty much what I figured had happened.
> 
> I also slipped him a twenty.
> 
> I've worked with dealers quite a bit over the years and know how they work, or don't work.


Wish I could afford to slip someone a twenty....


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

XLnoGas said:


> Wish I could afford to slip someone a twenty....


It was cheaper than having my oil plug come loose going home. ;-)


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Ardery said:


> you can ask to see the part, but you cannot ask to keep it. a lot of parts, well some parts, have a core-charge... and must be returned.


Highly doubt a Lexus dealer will use reman parts, hence no core charges from them. Indy shops, yes.


----------



## Charlesw62 (Feb 20, 2020)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> You have a LS 600hL&#128563;&#128563;?? How did you find such an unicorn!!?? You must be rich since it should have costed you $120k+ with the executive package!! I feel happy for you with such a fine car. What is it like at the rear seat with ottoman and massage? However, have you ever considered the need of battery replacement some day (it probably will not fail within the warranty period)?
> 
> Believe or not, my 2004 LS 430 never gives me any jaw-dropping repair bills other than the minor replacements such as the door actuators and spiral cable as I mentioned previously. I would say the cost of maintenance is almost nothing (regular oil changes, $360 brake job, the lucky occasion getting the "$1000 drive out" promotion with 4 new tyres and the $2000 90K mile service for timing belt + water pump job). There are no issues with the suspension yet compared with the LS 460s infamous for $$$ control arm replacement. This is why I traded in my 2011 for an upgrade to current 2015 460L that comes with a 2-year warranty as a CPO. I hope this car will be as reliable as my 430!


Not rich, just smart. I ordered it new and just turned 22,125 miles. Oddly enough, I have only sat in back 3 times. Mostly my grandchildren or in-laws are in back. I do love the amenities back there but the real pleasure is actually driving it. It is so isolated from the noise outside. I have considered the battery issue. There are replacements available (refurbed) for around $4200 or so but are difficult to find. You should be fine with the 15 460L. I think they corrected the control arm issue. 
I don't drive it much but just enough to keep everything "working". The worst thing for a car is to let it sit. I mostly drive my Navigator around town. Even when I am home, I really don't drive around Durham much (except for RS). I mostly drive out of town. With the coming apocalypse I keep the Navi and 600 in the garage and just drive either my town car or flex around.



TomTheAnt said:


> Highly doubt a Lexus dealer will use reman parts, hence no core charges from them. Indy shops, yes.


Lexus does in fact use brand new parts, but were I to have any issues, I would always ask to see the part and they will accommodate me. I have been dealing with them for years (My Dealer) but ask me if I trust them, the answer is a firm NO. 
Most dealerships do send their re-buildable parts back to the supplier and they rebuild them for the "car parts" market. They do make money on those "cores".


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> @Frontier Guy
> I think you may have misunderstood me. For a 16-year old car, it is already impressive enough without giving me any surprise repair bills. All I have so far is the replacement of door actuators and the most recent spiral cable (manually locking the front passenger door and maintaining speed by putting the foot on pedal may not sound like a problem for many). I am certainly aware of the fact that parts will eventually fair with age. Hence, what I complain is not the cost of repair but rather the experience at the dealer. They have a legitimate reason for charging a diagnostic fee but I find it completely unacceptable to keep me waiting instead of telling me to leave and wait for their updates.
> 
> How often do you see German luxury cars with similar age as mine on the road? Of course, there are and I have seen a few but not many. I am very satisfied with Lexus reliability. Actually I think my car can actually live longer than I do.
> ...


I see hundreds of German luxury cars on the road every day, many older than yours, may with significant mileage, and most are maintained by their owners or by an independent repair shop, as for many things, Audi, BMW, MB, Volvo dealers are not capable of working on them, only supplying parts.

As for the diagnostic issue, that's not uncommon for them to make someone sit and wait. It depends on how busy they are, if they are familiar with the issue and can diagnose it quick or need more time, and don't realize it till later or if a simple diagnostic issue goes sideways for some reason. I once sat at a Dodge dealer for 7 hours on a Saturday, what started off as a simple oil change/transmission fluid service turned into a major issue when three of the 12 trans pan bolts stripped and had to be helicoiled, 1 hr per hole to be repaired, and that was before they could actually service the transmission. You personally should have said "hey, I can't sit around all day, I've got things to do, how about I leave come back later". BTW, had you gone to a good Independent shop, they probably would have told you to drop the car off and come back later.


----------



## Nina2 (Oct 6, 2018)

Ardery said:


> all CURRENT model cars' diagnoses are all online? all?
> 
> a lot of the *NEW* cars need the factory plug in tool.
> 
> no getting around it.


In like 2 or 3 years there will be readers for the newer vehicles as it takes time for the decoding to be made and might take a year or 2 after for the machanic to get the software so these is a way to get around it just get a 2 or 3 year old vehicle or a vehicle that hasn't been redesigned in a few years


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

i had a Prius i brought to sell all dealer serviced on carfax. 304k 2008...ran like new


----------

