# Entitled Cyclist Hogs the Road



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

This guy actually claimed to be a cop and would "write me up right now." Until I pointed to the dashcam.


----------



## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Sorry, but you're in the wrong here. I would've taken out a side mirror or two if I was that biker.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

The driver was right, the arrogant bicycle weird-0 was in the wrong. This comes from someone who rides a bicycle daily.


----------



## xgamrgeekx (Dec 1, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The driver was right, the arrogant bicycle weird-0 was in the wrong. This comes from someone who rides a bicycle daily.


Pretty sure it depends on certain factors, depending on local laws. I do see signs on some streets that don't have official bike lanes that read bicycles may use full lane. However, I think it's common sense/courtesy, that the biker move over to the side further to allow automobile traffic to pass him/her safely. Seriously, we're all human, we all pay for those roads in some way, let's share!

Now bring the flames


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Your Fault
His Fault
Nobody’s Fault

Hit a bicyclist and you’ll get jammed up
in the system.
The ride of your life

U think CheckR won’t report to uber
Guess what uber will do....
Your insurance co will do...
Future employment in ground transportation prospects....


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

xgamrgeekx said:


> Pretty sure it depends on certain factors, depending on local laws. I do see signs on some streets that don't have official bike lanes that read bicycles may use full lane. However, I think it's common sense/courtesy, that the biker move over to the side further to allow automobile traffic to pass him/her safely. Seriously, we're all human, we all pay for those roads in some way, let's share!
> 
> Now bring the flames


Here in Tampa we have plenty of cyclists and some roads designated with bike lanes. But I've never seen a sign here that says "bicycles may use full lanes". Cyclists usually stay on the side to allow cars to go by. First time I've seen one hog the road like this. First time I see a cyclist without a helmet too. Actually, at the beginning, he was already in a tizzy with the SUV for having crossed the highway in front of him without ceding the way. They were already hot headed before I got there. Then he decides to get right in front of me too. And no, I didn't almost hit him. Not even close.



Another Uber Driver said:


> The driver was right, the arrogant bicycle weird-0 was in the wrong. This comes from someone who rides a bicycle daily.


I'm a cyclist too. And I teach the kids safety on bikes. You are no match for a moving car.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

The bicyclist appeared to do everything correct, which is a rarity from my experience. Bicycles are vehicles that must operate like all other vehicles unless there is law specific to the location that deems them to operate in a different manner. The most common is restricting bicycles to “bicycle lanes”, requiring the use of “bicycle paths” and the strict disallowance of bicycles on high speed roadways such as freeways. In continuation of this fact they must also adhere to all traffic control devices, including stop signs, which is frequently ignored by a sizable portion of the the bicycle riding populace.

Although the driver of the car in the video claims that “there is no bike riding ... in the middle of the road like that” there is not noticeable signage that suggests this statement is factually codified into law or is policy if on private property. Now if it is expressly forbidden then the bicycle rider is in the wrong but if it is not forbidden then he is in the right.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> The bicyclist appeared to do everything correct, which is a rarity from my experience. ... the strict disallowance of bicycles on high speed roadways such as freeways.


Yet he crossed a major highway?



RDWRER said:


> Although the driver of the car in the video claims that "there is no bike riding ... in the middle of the road like that"


Where is that quote?


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> Yet he crossed a major highway?
> 
> Where is that quote?


48 seconds "there is no bicycle riding"

1 minute 6 seconds "You can't just be riding in the middle of the road like that"

If it's legal to ride on the street in question and that street crosses a major highway than it is legal to cross that highway unless it is expressly illegal. He is not turning onto the major highway only following the side street which happens to intersect with it. Usually this is avoided by making bicycle paths and bridges or tunnels to stay out of traffic and expressly forbidding bicycles on the roads that intersect with the highway but again I do not know the specific laws of the areas around where that video was taken. I only can infer from what I both do and do not see in it and I do not see any signage expressly forbidding bicycles. It may however be codified that bicycles are not allowed on streets that have a certain speed limit but I also do not see the speed limit of the street either.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> 48 seconds "there is no bicycle riding"
> 
> 1 minute 6 seconds "You can't just be riding in the middle of the road like that"
> 
> If it's legal to ride on the street in question and that street crosses a major highway than it is legal to cross that highway unless it is expressly illegal. He is not turning onto the major highway only following the side street which happens to intersect with it. Usually this is avoided by making bicycle paths and bridges or tunnels to stay out of traffic and expressly forbidding bicycles on the roads that intersect with the highway but again I do not know the specific laws of the areas around where that video was taken. I only can infer from what I both do and do not see in it and I do not see any signage expressly forbidding bicycles. It may however be codified that bicycles are not allowed on streets that have a certain speed limit but I also do not see the speed limit of the street either.


https://www.floridafreewheelers.com/index.php/information/bike-laws
*How to Lawfully Share the Roadway with Cars and Other Vehicles*
While bicycles are generally considered vehicles just like cars, some special rules do apply for everyone's mutual safety. Consider the following provisions:


Bikers must ride as closely as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. Exceptions exist in a few circumstances: when passing, when making a left turn, when necessary to avoid road hazards, when travelling the same speed as all the other traffic, or when a lane is too narrow to safely share with a car.
A further caveat to the rule stated above applies when you're on a one-way street that has at least two lanes. In that case, the bicycle may ride as close to the left-hand edge of the roadway as possible instead.
If riding two abreast, riders must stay within a single lane. They must also avoid impeding traffic.
Riding _more_ than two abreast is never allowed except for on paths or parts of roadways that are exclusively designated for bicycle use.
 Florida law re: highways and bikes
[§316.091] No person shall operate a bicycle on a limited access facility, except as otherwise provided. No person shall operate a bicycle on an interstate highway.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> https://www.floridafreewheelers.com/index.php/information/bike-laws
> *How to Lawfully Share the Roadway with Cars and Other Vehicles*
> While bicycles are generally considered vehicles just like cars, some special rules do apply for everyone's mutual safety. Consider the following provisions:
> 
> ...


Okay, that doesn't seem to invalidate his actions then. When encountered he is riding in the left lane which very quickly becomes a tight one lane roadway which also appears to be a left turn lane, as indicated by the turning signal the driver activated before proceeding. All that is expressly allowed by what has been quoted here.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Okay, that doesn't seem to invalidate his actions then. When encountered he is riding in the left lane which very quickly becomes a tight one lane roadway which also appears to be a left turn lane, as indicated by the turning signal the driver activated before proceeding. All that is expressly allowed by what has been quoted here.


"seem"? We'd have to disagree on that. What about impersonating an officer?



RDWRER said:


> but again I do not know the specific laws of the areas around where that video was taken


Right, so you can't just make up your own laws.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> "seem"? We'd have to disagree on that. What about impersonating an officer?
> 
> Right, so you can't just make up your own laws.


Impersonating an Officer is impersonating an Officer. Neither you nor I know if he really was a member of law enforcement and just couldn't bother to stick around. Maybe he meant what he said but simply didn't have his ticket book with him considering he was off duty. Also plainclothesman is a thing but unlikely in this scenario. It's also possible he is a civilian employed by the City/State and is empowered to issue citations without expressly being a member of law enforcement, but again we don't know.

As to "making up laws" that's what the driver of the vehicle appears to have done. Again a bicycle is a vehicle and _unless expressly forbidden _any vehicle may be operated on any roadway.

Scooters are a perfect example. Right now in California scooters are legal to ride on any street in California.

EXCEPT if the driver does not have a license.

EXCEPT if the driver is a minor without a helmet.

EXCEPT if it drives faster than 15 miles per hour.

EXCEPT if the street has a speed limit faster than 35 miles per hour.

EXCEPT if the driver is not in a roadway designated for bicycles, either in a specific lane or operating in any lane on a specified bicycle path.
An EXCEPTION to this EXCEPTION is it is not allowed on bicycle paths that go off the roadway onto sidewalks or offroad.
An EXCEPTION to this EXCEPTION of an EXCEPTION is it is allowed on sidewalks to enter or exit a private establishment.

And I think that's it, all off of memory. But as you can see the law doesn't generally make things legal, it expressly make things illegal. It tells you what you can't do and generally speaking everything else is what you can do.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Impersonating an Officer is impersonating an Officer. Neither you nor I know if he really was a member of law enforcement and just couldn't bother to stick around. Maybe he meant what he said but simply didn't have his ticket book with him considering he was off duty. Also plainclothesman is a thing but unlikely in this scenario. It's also possible he is a civilian employed by the City/State and is empowered to issue citations without expressly being a member of law enforcement, but again we don't know.
> 
> As to "making up laws" that's what the driver of the vehicle appears to have done. Again a bicycle is a vehicle and _unless expressly forbidden _any vehicle may be operated on any roadway.
> 
> ...


This ain't California. Actually, I lived in Los Angeles for 35 years. Even there cyclists have the basic common courtesy to ride on the side of the road. There will always be a few exceptions. And quoting the law ain't "making up laws." Like I said, this is the first time I've encountered someone deciding to hog the road like that. No doubt he was in a tiff on account of the SUV prior to me. But that doesn't entitle him to block another car. As for "impersonating an officer" that is a serious offense. Notice how he backed away as soon as I pointed to my dashcam? That is serious! Look, at the end of the day it's about common courtesy on the road. We all share!


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> Look, at the end of the day it's about common courtesy on the road. We all share!


Except you, apparently...

Obviously you didn't want an actual discussion you just wanted other people to validate your actions.

Have a good day, sir.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Except you, apparently...
> 
> Obviously you didn't want an actual discussion you just wanted other people to validate your actions.
> 
> Have a good day, sir.


You came out attacking me from the beginning. I can defend myself. It's a free internet. Have a nice day too.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> You came out attacking me from the beginning. I can defend myself. It's a free internet. Have a nice day too.


I did not attack you. I defended the bicyclist and the absolute only comment I made regarding the driver was noting that there was no signage to corroborate the statement quoted.

You in fact attacked me by claiming I was "making up laws" when *I never suggested a law was even in place* and when you have yet to prove that you have not done that yourself.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> I did not attack you. I defended the bicyclist and the absolute only comment I made regarding the driver was noting that there was no signage to corroborate the statement quoted.
> 
> You in fact attacked me by claiming I was "making up laws" when *I never suggested a law was even in place* and when you have yet to prove that you have not done that yourself.


This is going nowhere fast. Have a nice day.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> This is going nowhere fast. Have a nice day.


Which is exactly how you felt about the bicyclist.

Good day.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Which is exactly how you felt about the bicyclist.
> 
> Good day.


Good day to you too.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Just because you _*can*_ do something, does not mean that you should.

In the early to mid 1960s, Green Cross for Safety put out a number of advertisements that had the tag line "He was right, DEAD RIGHT." This was back in the day of "Advertising Contributed for the Public Good" (so that the television station could show that it was meeting the FCC "public interest" requirement). It is funny, but the Google is no help in finding one, nor is YouTube.

A typical scenario went something similar to:

"Paul is driving down the highway. A car approaches the intersection. It's moving fast, like it's not going to stop at the STOP sign. But Paul pays no attention, he has the Right of Way."

***********WHAM-O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************************
*
Paul was right--DEAD RIGHT (Ambulance medic pulls sheet over Paul, who is lying on the gurney).

We have pedestrians killed every week in the Capital of Your Nation who are in a crosswalk with a pedestrian signal in their favour. In fact, there was a few weeks where several METRObusses struck pedestrians in the crosswalk who had pedestrian signals in their favour. I have seen several pedestrians who were struck in crosswalks with pedestrian signals in their favour. In all cases, the pedestrians saw the vehicle's coming. I watched them look at it every time. ..........BUT THEY HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY!!!!!!!!

I have seen bicyclists struck IN BICYCLE LANES. The bicyclist saw the truck's coming, ........................but HE WAS IN HIS BICYCLE LANE SO HE HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We get these Spandex boys here who will ride in the middle of a commuter artery in rush hour "because they can". I have seen two of them struck by drivers in extreme road rage. These Spandex boys do this on roads that have bicycle lanes or bicycle paths readily available. The Democrats who run this city make me pay taxes to construct bicycle lanes and paths, then pass laws that specifically state that bicyclists are not required to use them, when they are available. It also passes laws that exempt bicyclists for all responsibility or fault in a collision with a motorist.

I have had a few near misses as a pedestrian and a bicyclist. I do not push the matter, as do some of these people. Why not?

BOTTOM LINE: I do not care what laws are on the books; the laws of Nature and Physics trump the laws of man all day, every day, despite the denial of those who always are hollering about "science". I do not care how good his insurance is. If I am stuck in a wheelchair, I must pay someone to drive that Packard for me, pay someone to sail that boat for me, pay someone to fly the aeroplane for me.......it is NOT worth it. They can throw him in jail for years, at least he does not wake up every morning having to figure out how to get from his bed to the commode. If Bubba gets hold of him, he might walk a bit funny to the commode, but, he can get there on his own two feet with little trouble....................not so for me if I am stuck in a wheelchair.................and that is if I am fortunate. The far too frequent result of a pedestrian or bicycle collision with a motor vehicle is death; HINT: it _*ain't no driver of no motor vee-hick-cull what's dayed, neither*_. DEAD right equals DEAD WRONG.

Our Mayor, Muriel Bow-wow-wow-ser has this "Vision Zero" initiative. It is doomed to failure because it will not address bicycle and pedestrian arrogance.



xgamrgeekx said:


> Seriously, we're all human, we all pay for those roads in some way, let's share!


The problem here is that almost everyone her jaywalks. Add to that bicycists' routinely disobeying laws. The result is that the motorists do not get "their turn". When I make statements that pedestrians should not have the right of way EVER or that bicyclists should have no protection, one of the first counters that I hear is about "taking turns". At that point, the trap springs, as I point out all of the jaywalking and flagrant disregard for the laws that results in motorists' being denied their "turn". When the bicyclists and pedestrians want to play fair, I will be willing to play fair. Until that day comes, I will profile all pedestrians as jaywalkers and all bicyclists as bicycle weird-0s (except, of course, for me).



MacAngus said:


> But I've never seen a sign here that says "bicycles may use full lanes".


We have more than a few, here. The law in the District of Columbia specifically states that bicyclists are exempt from all fault and responsibility in the case of a motor vehicle collision. Further, despite requiring that the taxpayers pay for the construction of bicycle lanes and paths, the law states specifically that the bicyclists are not required to use them where available.

The bicyclist is still held responsible if he strikes a pedestrian, especially in a crosswalk with a pedestrian signal in his favour. Even if the pedestrian is not in a crosswalk or has a signal in his favour, the District of Columbia subscribes to the doctrine of "last clear chance", District of Columbia juries almost always find that the wheeled conveyance had the last clear chance to avoid the collision if it is pedestrian involved. We have had a number of pedestrian here struck by bicyclists. It is often one of these Spandex boys. They ride with head down or myopic focus, at high speed (relatively speaking, mind you), because they know that the law does not require that they look out; no, everyone is supposed to look out for them. It is at that point that they run into the exception, the pedestrian, be he jaywalking or legitimately crossing. We recently had an older lady, who was jaywalking, get struck by a Spandex boy. She was in the hospital for a week or two until she died from her injuries. The witnesses stated that Spandex Boy was riding at high speed and had his head down toward the ground.



MacAngus said:


> I'm a cyclist too. You are no match for a moving car.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

............even if it is one of those Smart Cars that is moving at ten miles per hour...............................

Dead Right equals Dead WRONG; BOTTOM LINE.................................



RDWRER said:


> The bicyclist appeared to do everything correct, which is a rarity from my experience. Bicycles are vehicles that must operate like all other vehicles unless there is law specific to the location that deems them to operate in a different manner. The most common is restricting bicycles to "bicycle lanes", requiring the use of "bicycle paths". In continuation of this fact they must also adhere to all traffic control devices, including stop signs, which is frequently ignored by a sizable portion of the the bicycle riding populace.


The problem in the District of Columbia is that due to the legal attitude toward bicyclists, they act as a pedestrian, when convenient to the rider, and, as a motor vehicle, but, again, only when convenient to the rider. They also labour under the illusion that the laws of man trump those of Nature and Physics.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Just because you _*can*_ do something, does not mean that you should.
> 
> In the early to mid 1960s, Green Cross for Safety put out a number of advertisements that had the tag line "He was right, DEAD RIGHT." This was back in the day of "Advertising Contributed for the Public Good" (so that the television station could show that it was meeting the FCC "public interest" requirement). It is funny, but the Google is no help in finding one, nor is YouTube.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## xgamrgeekx (Dec 1, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The problem here is that almost everyone her jaywalks. Add to that bicycists' routinely disobeying laws. The result is that the motorists do not get "their turn". When I make statements that pedestrians should not have the right of way EVER or that bicyclists should have no protection, one of the first counters that I hear is about "taking turns". At that point, the trap springs, as I point out all of the jaywalking and flagrant disregard for the laws that results in motorists' being denied their "turn". When the bicyclists and pedestrians want to play fair, I will be willing to play fair. Until that day comes, I will profile all pedestrians as jaywalkers and all bicyclists as bicycle weird-0s (except, of course, for me).


In my state, Utah, the drivers education handbook says that pedestrians have the right of way *even when NOT on a designated crosswalk. *Does this make it right for ped to do this? No, it's obviously dangerous, but I've seen it happen. People standing in the median/left turn lane waiting for traffic to clear to proceed. There are bike lanes on most major streets and even some side streets that tend to see more traffic. Other streets there are signs that read bicycles may use full lane. As I stated, it's courteous for the cyclist, if possible to do so safely, to move to the right so automobile traffic may pass. It's also a law in Utah, not that anyone follows it, that slower traffic stays to the right to allow faster moving traffic to pass. This video, and to a degree this post, is a bigger genitals fight. Seems a lot of humans don't want to treat others as human because of some self entitled ass hattery


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

*Operating a Motor Vehicle *
*Is NOT a RIGHT, it's at privilege *

If u want the Privilege 
You need to have both eyes open
and ready for A N Y T H I N G 
Basically: Driving 101

Your Fault 
Their Fault
Nobody's Fault
Hitting someone with your vehicle will change your life for the worse.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

MacAngus said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


............and the video provided is a perfect illustration of it...........................................

Yes, the truck driver is supposed to take care when he is making the "bicycle turn" (that is, in fact, what you call that kind of turn. Large vehicles must make them all the time).
Yes, the bicyclist in the video had the Right-of-Way.
Yes, the truck driver should have been looking out for ALL traffic, including motorised, human propelled and pedestrian.

What do you want to bet he was watching only for motorised traffic?

I have had a few near misses as a motorist with both bicycles and pedestrians because I was watching only the motorised traffic. Yes, I should be looking out for ALL traffic, but it just does not always happen. I know this and conduct myself accordingly when on bicycle or foot.

Yes, the truck driver should be held liable for negligence and his insurance company should pay. Clearly, he was at-fault.

The bicyclist had to have been aware of that truck. If nothing else, they are noisy beasts; you can NOT miss them. Despite that, she did not turn her head or break her speed. No, legally she was not under any obligation to watch out for the truck or break her speed. She had the right-of-way. Yes, I learned that when you have the right-of-way, you are supposed to take it, but, if someone is trying to violate your right-of-way, you do not push it, especially if it is obvious that you will lose the argument. She chose to push it with the predictable results. She was Right; DEAD RIGHT.

I do not know about anyone else here, but, given the choice of being right and dead or having my right-of-way violated and alive, I will pick the latter all day; every day. In fact, I will not push the right-of-way if I can see that doing so might result in a collision and that I would win the argument. This applies even if I am in a state that does not subscribe to the "last clear chance" doctrine. My parents raised me right.



xgamrgeekx said:


> In my state, Utah, the drivers education handbook says that pedestrians have the right of way *even when NOT on a designated crosswalk. *


I do not know the law in Utah, so I can not argue for against this quote.

"Pedestrians always have the right-of-way-" is a commonly spread myth, though. There are cases where a pedestrian is _*presumed*_ to have the right-of-way. This means that absent any evidence to the contrary, the court will proceed as it the pedestrian had the right-of-way.

The bottom line might be that the pedestrian had the right-of-way when actually he did not. An illustration of this can be found in any jurisdiction that subscribes to the doctrine of "last clear chance", such as the one in which I live.

The motorist is proceeding on the street at the speed limit of twenty five miles-per-hour/forty kilometers-per-hour. A pedestrian is crossing in the middle of the block from between two parked cars and is not looking where he is going. As the laws are written, the driver is under no obligation to stop. The pedestrian is. Now, comes the question, who had the last clear chance to avoid the collision? The driver saw the pedestrian. The pedestrian did not see the driver. The jury will rule that despite the pedestrian's obvious negligence, clearly, the driver could have avoided the collision. Therefore, the jury will hold the driver liable. BOTTOM LINE: The pedestrian had the right-of-way, as his lawyer-ER-uh-HE, got paid.


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

At some point you'd think common sense would kick in. Or at least some sense of self-preservation. 
"Oh look. That's the second car that almost hit me because I'm going slower than the flow of traffic in the middle of the lane on a bike... Maybe I shouldn't be in the middle of the road where cars can do that!"
I mean... seriously. lmao
But even more seriously, just because you may 'have the right of way' doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious. Vehicles have blind spots. Cyclists like to have the rights of a motor vehicle, but be treated like pedestrians all the time.

I well remember about eight years ago, I was driving in Wildwood, turning the corner of what used to be Tucker's Pub (man! I miss their Sheppard's Pie!), when I cyclist who was on the street, jumped onto the payment, into my blind spot, then jumped off the payment...Directly into the dead middle of the side of my car. Of course this means that I was nearly completed in my turn when he decided I must have been a figment of his imagination and tried to put his bike through me. I was driving a 72 LeSabre. I know it bloody hurt. 
The stench of booze seeped off the guy like cologne. When the officer got there (I pulled over, let the guy rest in my car, gave him a bottle of water that I had laying around, called 911 because the guy was shocky and I was a bit worried), the officer asked him where he was headed that night.
He looked that officer dead in the face, and in the most seriously serious voice told him he was 'going to Russia.'
He was operating a vehicle, obviously under the influence, rammed himself into my high value, award winning classic, and somehow I got the reckless driving ticket. Of course, once the judge five months later, heard my humorous and still very vivid telling of the story of what happened, he gave the cop, and the Russian a verbal beat-down and let me off without even a second thought.

But this just goes to prove that there are times when the cyclist is definitely at fault, and the car owner takes the blame.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

COMMON SENSE

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Not so common any more. It went out the door with respect and responsibility.


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

Unfortunately quite valid.


----------



## xgamrgeekx (Dec 1, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> "Pedestrians always have the right-of-way-" is a commonly spread myth, though. There are cases where a pedestrian is _*presumed*_ to have the right-of-way. This means that absent any evidence to the contrary, the court will proceed as it the pedestrian had the right-of-way.


I'm not so much of an ass to not be able to admit when I've misspoken. To be sure, because I was quoting a post from somewhere else this discussion took place, I looked up the actual law. Basically, pedestrians have right of way in designated crosswalks. Obviously, if there is no traffic light or a stop sign for oncoming traffic, the pedestrian should ensure that vehicles approaching are a safe distance away to begin crossing. This also applies to pedestrians crossing in the middle of the block where no designated crosswalk is located. Approaching vehicles should still yield in these cases, even if we don't like it or believe otherwise.
I mean, whose parents didn't teach them to look both ways before crossing the street? That's just asking for a hospital stay or free trip to the morgue if you refuse, as a pedestrian, to ensure your own safety crossing a road. I still look both ways even if I have the green light, on foot or not, because idiots will always be idiots. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people blow red lights trying to beat the yellow, or just blow through because they dgaf about anyone with the right of way who may be approaching.
Bicycles, being considered vehicles, the rider is responsible for hand signals for turning and stopping as well as obeying all traffic laws as if they are in a motorized vehicle with the same right of way as pedestrians. I didn't see any of this in the video, so in that respect the cyclist was wrong. Especially since the cyclist in OP's video brake checked the car! Stupid human behavior...
Utah law also says slower traffic keeps right so faster traffic can pass. I mostly see these signs on highways and freeways, however I think it applies to surface streets when there are more than 1 lane of travel in the same direction, but maybe that's just me and my own standards. Vehicles also may cross center lines as long as it can be done safely to pass cyclists.
It seems clear to anyone with half a brain that we are expected to share the road. Too many entitled drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians who may or may not be in the right decide the road is theirs and everyone else needs to get out of their way.

So I say again: share the road! Especially as rideshare drivers, we are expected to be courteous to other drivers, and I believe this also implies cyclists and pedestrians. We are the public face of U/L with those stickers in our windows and is part of the safe driving pax expect from us.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

merryon2nd said:


> At some point you'd think common sense would kick in. Or at least some sense of self-preservation.
> "Oh look. That's the second car that almost hit me because I'm going slower than the flow of traffic in the middle of the lane on a bike... Maybe I shouldn't be in the middle of the road where cars can do that!"


^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^



xgamrgeekx said:


> I'm not so much of an ass to not be able to admit when I've misspoken. To be sure, because I was quoting a post from somewhere else this discussion took place, I looked up the actual law. Basically, pedestrians have right of way in designated crosswalks. Obviously, if there is no traffic light or a stop sign for oncoming traffic, the pedestrian should ensure that vehicles approaching are a safe distance away to begin crossing. This also applies to pedestrians crossing in the middle of the block where no designated crosswalk is located. Approaching vehicles should still yield in these cases, even if we don't like it or believe otherwise.
> I mean, whose parents didn't teach them to look both ways before crossing the street? That's just asking for a hospital stay or free trip to the morgue if you refuse, as a pedestrian, to ensure your own safety crossing a road. I still look both ways even if I have the green light, on foot or not, because idiots will always be idiots. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people blow red lights trying to beat the yellow, or just blow through because they dgaf about anyone with the right of way who may be approaching.
> Bicycles, being considered vehicles, the rider is responsible for hand signals for turning and stopping as well as obeying all traffic laws as if they are in a motorized vehicle with the same right of way as pedestrians. I didn't see any of this in the video, so in that respect the cyclist was wrong. Especially since the cyclist in OP's video brake checked the car! Stupid human behavior...
> Utah law also says slower traffic keeps right so faster traffic can pass. I mostly see these signs on highways and freeways, however I think it applies to surface streets when there are more than 1 lane of travel in the same direction, but maybe that's just me and my own standards. Vehicles also may cross center lines as long as it can be done safely to pass cyclists.
> ...


I can appreciate what you said here. We were going about 5 mph (intentionally) when he brake checked me so it was easy to stop on a dime.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

MacAngus said:


> This guy actually claimed to be a cop and would "write me up right now." Until I pointed to the dashcam.


Getting back to the original video, I saw two careless driving violations, but neither were by the bicyclist. 

When you made the right turn off the main road, you crossed a double-solid line to get into the right turn lane. That's illegal.
You actually did get too close to the bicyclist at the stop sign. If you ride a bicycle yourself, you should know that bikes are wobbly when they are stopping for a stop sign, and common sense would have been to give him more room.
There was no problem with anyone else's driving.

And there was no issue until you blew your horn at the bicyclist -- for occupying the full lane on a narrow one-lane roadway. The bicyclist was in the right -- he has just as much right to that lane of traffic as you do. It's also common sense to fully occupy the lane to KEEP crazy drivers from trying to pass you unsafely.

And the one-lane road he was blocking was what -- 100 feet long???

The entire sequence when you were directly behind the bike was maybe 10 seconds. Were you in that much of a hurry that you couldn't wait?

The whole interaction was just silly.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

After 4 hours of rideshare driving today I come back home to this beautiful sight! My neighborhood kids have been taught proper bike safety and etiquette. Yes, there is hope!







JimKE said:


> Getting back to the original video, I saw two careless driving violations, but neither were by the bicyclist.
> 
> When you made the right turn off the main road, you crossed a double-solid line to get into the right turn lane. That's illegal.
> You actually did get too close to the bicyclist at the stop sign. If you ride a bicycle yourself, you should know that bikes are wobbly when they are stopping for a stop sign, and common sense would have been to give him more room.
> ...


You're entitled to your opinion. The only part I agree with is this: "The whole interaction was just silly."


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

merryon2nd said:


> Nah. There are people out there that actually enjoy insightful conversations that come complete with grammar and punctuation. Thanks though.


"Insightful conversation"

.......said the "Uber driver"








​


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

ECOMCON said:


> said the "Uber driver"


Actually, said the performance mechanic who moonlights as a driver while going through PT for a serious injury. But, sure.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

merryon2nd said:


> Actually, said the performance mechanic who moonlights as a driver while going through PT for a serious injury. But, sure.


The uber driver"s SOP fall back position: "the victim".

Sad


----------



## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

One of these days he'll cut off a self-driving Uber car and that will be that. Some cyclists, well people in general, are just oblivious and give zero flips about their own life. See it on the road everyday.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

xgamrgeekx said:


> I'm not so much of an ass to not be able to admit when I've misspoken. To be sure, because I was quoting a post from somewhere else this discussion took place, I looked up the actual law. Basically, pedestrians have right of way in designated crosswalks. Obviously, if there is no traffic light or a stop sign for oncoming traffic, the pedestrian should ensure that vehicles approaching are a safe distance away to begin crossing. This also applies to pedestrians crossing in the middle of the block where no designated crosswalk is located. Approaching vehicles should still yield in these cases, even if we don't like it or believe otherwise.
> I mean, whose parents didn't teach them to look both ways before crossing the street? That's just asking for a hospital stay or free trip to the morgue if you refuse, as a pedestrian, to ensure your own safety crossing a road. I still look both ways even if I have the green light, on foot or not, because idiots will always be idiots. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people blow red lights trying to beat the yellow, or just blow through because they dgaf about anyone with the right of way who may be approaching.
> Bicycles, being considered vehicles, the rider is responsible for hand signals for turning and stopping as well as obeying all traffic laws as if they are in a motorized vehicle with the same right of way as pedestrians. I didn't see any of this in the video, so in that respect the cyclist was wrong. Especially since the cyclist in OP's video brake checked the car! Stupid human behavior...
> Utah law also says slower traffic keeps right so faster traffic can pass. I mostly see these signs on highways and freeways, however I think it applies to surface streets when there are more than 1 lane of travel in the same direction, but maybe that's just me and my own standards. Vehicles also may cross center lines as long as it can be done safely to pass cyclists.
> ...


Unless there is a specific Utah law that says otherwise, vehicles may only cross center lines if they are broken center lines. Solid yellow lines may not be crossed for any reason. A double yellow line that is solid on one side but broken on the other may only be crossed by the side that has the broken line. Also, a broken yellow island can be used for passing in either direction and must be used as a turn lane for all turns.


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

ECOMCON said:


> The uber driver"s SOP fall back position: "the victim".


Actually, the very fact that I've managed to branch off into my own business and continue to pay my bills, and kill my debts makes me the anti-victim, and your statement ridiculous. Good day sir.


----------



## hrswartz (Jan 4, 2019)

fight nice kiddies... mom always taught "when you argue with a fool ultimately you can't determine who the fool is"... just sayin'


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

hrswartz said:


> fight nice kiddies... mom always taught "when you argue with a fool ultimately you can't determine who the fool is"... just sayin'


Or...as I'm told they say in East Texas:

"Never wrestle in the mud with a pig. You'll just get muddy and the pig will LOVE it!"


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

JimKE said:


> It's also common sense to fully occupy the lane to KEEP *crazy driver*s from trying to pass you unsafely.


 (emphasis added)

Perhaps in Florida that will keep a motorist from passing a bicyclist, but I have seen "crazy drivers" strike more than one bicyclist who was occupying the whole lane (or roadway, in the case of a one lane road). I am aware of many more "crazy drivers" who have been struck bicyclists in this manner.

The bicyclist who fully occupies the lane has the same mentality as the pedestrian who is crossing with the signal in his favour and ignores the oncoming METRObus. "He has to stop. He can not strike me. _*IT'S THE LAW!*_". The problem, here, is that the laws of Nature and Physics trump those of man all day; every day. People put too much faith in man's laws. Most of the people who do this are the same people who are always caterwauling about "SCIENCE". Physics is a science. Physics has more than a few formulae that will allow you to predict the results of even a small (one metric ton) car that is travelling at 25KpH striking a bicyclist who weighs all of sixty kilos and is riding a bicycle that weighs twenty five (a rather heavy bicycle). One thousand kilos moving at 25KpH against eight five moving at whatever speed in whatever direction.........................you predict the results.

BOTTOM LINE: Do you like riding your bicycle? If so, do what you can to avoid a motor vehicle's striking you. It is what I do when I am on my bicycle.



JimKE said:


> And the one-lane road he was blocking was what -- 100 feet long??? The entire sequence when you were directly behind the bike was maybe 10 seconds. Were you in that much of a hurry that you couldn't wait?


.........and is that bicyclist that lacking in manners that he can not ride as far to the right as possible to allow faster moving traffic to pass him?

I stay as far to the right as possible when I am on my bicycle. I do not want a motorist to hit me. I look behind me, as well. I have ducked more than one near miss by jumping up onto the sidewalk. I ride a heavyweight, older style bicycle, so the rims can take that abuse. In fact, the heavyweight, or "safety" bicycle was designed that way in the 1930s precisely to take that kind of abuse. I have seen more than one bent rim on a fixie when the rider, a rarity for a fixie rider, actually looked out and had to jump onto the sidewalk to avoid being struck.


----------



## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

We have designated bike lanes now, which are a blessing and a curse. At least it keeps them in their own place, which makes it easier for us drivers. I also ride a bike too, but find many other bikers where I live, to be, in general, assholes about following the rules of the road.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> (emphasis added)
> 
> Perhaps in Florida that will keep a motorist from passing a bicyclist, but I have seen "crazy drivers" strike more than one bicyclist who was occupying the whole lane (or roadway, in the case of a one lane road). I am aware of many more "crazy drivers" who have been struck bicyclists in this manner.
> 
> ...


I think you missed the point(s). This is not a science lab. This is a silly Internet post.

The bicyclist in the video was initially riding by himself down the middle of a VERY short (probably less than 100 feet) one lane road. The bicyclist did nothing wrong, and in fact, was not even holding OP up because the one lane stretch was so short. OP was *not* trying to pass him, and in fact, did not catch up to him until he stopped. But OP did beep his little "excuse me" horn because he was apparently offended in some way.

After the juvenile exchange (by both parties) at the stop sign, they entered a shopping center parking lot -- with the bicyclist WELL ahead -- where OP accelerated to catch up so he could criticize the bicyclist. Please. OP's behavior was childish -- middle-school at best.

And then, to make sure everyone recognizes what a power he is, he posts this silly video to YouTube and here on UP. I suspect that most viewers would react "...so what?"

This is a nothing burger, just like his other thread in which a mentally-challenged Jeep driver gets confused about where to turn. You'd think that simple brain-fart it was the crime of the century!


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

xgamrgeekx said:


> Pretty sure it depends on certain factors, depending on local laws. I do see signs on some streets that don't have official bike lanes that read bicycles may use full lane. However, I think it's common sense/courtesy, that the biker move over to the side further to allow automobile traffic to pass him/her safely. Seriously, we're all human, we all pay for those roads in some way, let's share!
> 
> Now bring the flames


Actually, per road safety guidelines...
Cyclist are safer when they maintain lane control.
Most cyclists are struck when a vehicle attempts to remain within the lane while passing which is more likely when the cyclist rides the edge of the road.
Maintaining lane control tends to lead to the passing vehicle (if not being driven by a sociopath) to actually cross the left side (USA) of their lane markings giving a wider passing distance.
And, while this may not lead to happier motorists, it is safer.


----------



## IGotDrive (Oct 8, 2018)

MacAngus said:


> This guy actually claimed to be a cop and would "write me up right now." Until I pointed to the dashcam.


Good for you! He was likely supposed to be on the right side of the road as a cyclist if he wasn't making a left turn. Or to the furthest edge of one side, depending on the laws in your municipality. Vehicles shouldn't even be darting back and forth on the road the way he did.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

JimKE said:


> I think you missed the point(s). This is not a science lab. This is a silly Internet post.
> 
> The bicyclist in the video was initially riding by himself down the middle of a VERY short (probably less than 100 feet) one lane road. The bicyclist did nothing wrong, and in fact, was not even holding OP up because the one lane stretch was so short. OP was *not* trying to pass him, and in fact, did not catch up to him until he stopped. But OP did beep his little "excuse me" horn because he was apparently offended in some way.
> 
> ...


Disappointing post, Jim. What do you think this "post your stories" on uberpeople is for? Making assumptions about internal motivations and attacking them personally has no place in a forum like this. We can discuss and hold different opinions about what transpired but don't degenerate into things you know nothing about. You know nothing about what I think.



IGotDrive said:


> Good for you! He was likely supposed to be on the right side of the road as a cyclist if he wasn't making a left turn. Or to the furthest edge of one side, depending on the laws in your municipality. Vehicles shouldn't even be darting back and forth on the road the way he did.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've already pointed to the bike laws in Florida that say that but unfortunately it's getting ignored.


----------



## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

All I know....Bike vs Car......car usually wins that one handily.

I always keep that in mind when out cycling.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

MacAngus said:


> Here in Tampa we have plenty of cyclists and some roads designated with bike lanes. But I've never seen a sign here that says "bicycles may use full lanes". Cyclists usually stay on the side to allow cars to go by. First time I've seen one hog the road like this. First time I see a cyclist without a helmet too. Actually, at the beginning, he was already in a tizzy with the SUV for having crossed the highway in front of him without ceding the way. They were already hot headed before I got there. Then he decides to get right in front of me too. And no, I didn't almost hit him. Not even close.
> 
> I'm a cyclist too. And I teach the kids safety on bikes. You are no match for a moving car.


No sign required. Cyclists may always use the full lane just like a car. There's nothing entitled about that, it's just safety.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Merc7186 said:


> All I know....Bike vs Car......car usually wins that one handily.I always keep that in mind when out cycling.


_*"But obviously you don't understand. They can't hit you, IT'S THE *__*LAW*_.*"
*
I have seen and been aware of more bicyclists who "controlled" the lane get struck than I have seen those who stayed to the right get struck. NTHSB Statistics may show differently, but my experience dictates the opposite.


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have seen and been aware of more bicyclists who "controlled" the lane get struck than I have seen those who stayed to the right get struck. NTHSB Statistics may show differently, but my experience dictates the opposite.


I've also noted that driver aggression tendency seems to rise when they can't hit limit speed because of lane controlling cyclists. Some drivers in these circumstances tend to get nervous, then flustered, then frustrated. 
Some, like myself, just slink down the first little street they come across and come back up a few blocks later. 
Some will stubbornly stay, and begin to exhibit signs of road rage. 
Mentality of others, if not the action of lane controlling would put cyclists at risk.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

MacAngus said:


> I've already pointed to the bike laws in Florida that say that but unfortunately it's getting ignored.


In truth, you did NOT post Florida's bike law.

What you posted was an excerpt of ONE PART of the discussion of bicycle laws from a bicycle club website. And you DID NOT even post that part of the club's explanation that is actually relevant to this conversation.

And BTW, the info you posted was last updated on March 12, 2015...almost 4 years ago.

:Here is the current *Florida Statute 316.2065*, which contains Florida's bicycle regulations -- in its entirety, not cherry-picked. Please note the first sentence.

The second sentence bolded below talks about getting to the far right, and the situations under which that is required.

Those conditions did not exist in your video. You and the bicyclist were moving at about the same speed and you did not catch up to him until he stopped at the stop sign. There was no conflict or potential danger between your vehicle and his bike. You just wanted him to get out of your way, but he actually did not slow you down at all.

*The 2018 Florida Statutes







*
*Title XXIII*
MOTOR VEHICLES *Chapter 316 *
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL *View Entire Chapter*
316.2065 Bicycle regulations.-
(1) *Every person propelling a vehicle by human power has all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter, *except as to special regulations in this chapter, and except as to provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.
(2) A person operating a bicycle may not ride other than upon or astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto.
(3)(a) A bicycle may not be used to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it is designed or equipped, except that an adult rider may carry a child securely attached to his or her person in a backpack or sling.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (a), a bicycle rider must carry any passenger who is a child under 4 years of age, or who weighs 40 pounds or less, in a seat or carrier that is designed to carry a child of that age or size and that secures and protects the child from the moving parts of the bicycle.
(c) A bicycle rider may not allow a passenger to remain in a child seat or carrier on a bicycle when the rider is not in immediate control of the bicycle.
(d) A bicycle rider or passenger who is under 16 years of age must wear a bicycle helmet that is properly fitted and is fastened securely upon the passenger's head by a strap and that meets the federal safety standard for bicycle helmets, final rule, 16 C.F.R. part 1203. A helmet purchased before October 1, 2012, which meets the standards of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI Z 90.4 Bicycle Helmet Standards), the standards of the Snell Memorial Foundation (1984 Standard for Protective Headgear for Use in Bicycling), or any other nationally recognized standards for bicycle helmets adopted by the department may continue to be worn by a bicycle rider or passenger until January 1, 2016. As used in this subsection, the term "passenger" includes a child who is riding in a trailer or semitrailer attached to a bicycle.
(e) Law enforcement officers and school crossing guards may issue a bicycle safety brochure and a verbal warning to a bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection. A bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection may be issued a citation by a law enforcement officer and assessed a fine for a pedestrian violation, as provided in s. 318.18. The court shall dismiss the charge against a bicycle rider or passenger for a first violation of paragraph (d) upon proof of purchase of a bicycle helmet that complies with this subsection.
(4) No person riding upon any bicycle, coaster, roller skates, sled, or toy vehicle may attach the same or himself or herself to any vehicle upon a roadway. This subsection does not prohibit attaching a bicycle trailer or bicycle semitrailer to a bicycle if that trailer or semitrailer is commercially available and has been designed for such attachment.
(5)(a) *Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:*
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a "substandard-width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.
(7) Every bicycle in use between sunset and sunrise shall be equipped with a lamp on the front exhibiting a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the front and a lamp and reflector on the rear each exhibiting a red light visible from a distance of 600 feet to the rear. A bicycle or its rider may be equipped with lights or reflectors in addition to those required by this section. A law enforcement officer may issue a bicycle safety brochure and a verbal warning to a bicycle rider who violates this subsection or may issue a citation and assess a fine for a pedestrian violation as provided in s. 318.18. The court shall dismiss the charge against a bicycle rider for a first violation of this subsection upon proof of purchase and installation of the proper lighting equipment.
(8) No parent of any minor child and no guardian of any minor ward may authorize or knowingly permit any such minor child or ward to violate any of the provisions of this section.
(9) A person propelling a vehicle by human power upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, has all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
(10) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.
(11) No person upon roller skates, or riding in or by means of any coaster, toy vehicle, or similar device, may go upon any roadway except while crossing a street on a crosswalk; and, when so crossing, such person shall be granted all rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to pedestrians.
(12) This section shall not apply upon any street while set aside as a play street authorized herein or as designated by state, county, or municipal authority.
(13) Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake or brakes which will enable its rider to stop the bicycle within 25 feet from a speed of 10 miles per hour on dry, level, clean pavement.
(14) A person engaged in the business of selling bicycles at retail shall not sell any bicycle unless the bicycle has an identifying number permanently stamped or cast on its frame.
(15)(a) A person may not knowingly rent or lease any bicycle to be ridden by a child who is under the age of 16 years unless:
1. The child possesses a bicycle helmet; or
2. The lessor provides a bicycle helmet for the child to wear.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a nonmoving violation, punishable as provided in s. 318.18.
(16) The court may waive, reduce, or suspend payment of any fine imposed under subsection (3) or subsection (15) and may impose any other conditions on the waiver, reduction, or suspension. If the court finds that a person does not have sufficient funds to pay the fine, the court may require the performance of a specified number of hours of community service or attendance at a safety seminar.
(17) Notwithstanding s. 318.21, all proceeds collected pursuant to s. 318.18 for violations under paragraphs (3)(e) and (15)(b) shall be deposited into the State Transportation Trust Fund.
(18) The failure of a person to wear a bicycle helmet or the failure of a parent or guardian to prevent a child from riding a bicycle without a bicycle helmet may not be considered evidence of negligence or contributory negligence.
(19) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a pedestrian violation as provided in chapter 318. A law enforcement officer may issue traffic citations for a violation of subsection (3) or subsection (15) only if the violation occurs on a bicycle path or road, as defined in s. 334.03. However, a law enforcement officer may not issue citations to persons on private property, except any part thereof which is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic.
History.-s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 1, ch. 76-31; s. 2, ch. 76-286; s. 1, ch. 78-353; s. 8, ch. 83-68; s. 5, ch. 85-309; s. 1, ch. 86-23; s. 7, ch. 87-161; s. 21, ch. 94-306; s. 899, ch. 95-148; s. 1, ch. 96-185; s. 2, ch. 97-300; s. 161, ch. 99-248; s. 6, ch. 2010-223; s. 7, ch. 2012-27; s. 6, ch. 2012-181.
Note.-Former s. 316.111.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

[QUOTE="(5)(a) *Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:*
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a "substandard-width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

MacAngus said:


> [QUOTE="(5)(a) *Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:*
> 1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
> 2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
> 3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a "substandard-width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
> (b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[/QUOTE]
You should read the latter part of #3 above where it talks about *"sub-standard width lanes" *being an _*exception*_ to the general practice of moving to the right. The very short stretch of road you were on is clearly too narrow for a car to pass that bicycle safely.

You provoked the situation by driving up too close behind the bicyclist and blowing your horn. You behaved in a childish manner...over nothing.

The same is true of your other thread where you're having a stroke over a driver's simple brain-fart which caused no inconvenience or danger to you. Both threads are nothing-burgers.

The only explanation I can think of is you are trying to generate clicks on your YouTube channel.

If you are _actually_ this concerned about the driving shown in the two videos you have posted here, you are going to have a very difficult time with rideshare driving!


----------



## Wraiththe (Nov 26, 2017)

All this crap for 15 seconds of inconvenience. So the guy on the bike was a bit inconsiderate for not moving over. So he did not use hand signals. Share the road. Move on. Jeeze. Now had it been a 1 mile + stretch, that is another story.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Wraiththe said:


> All this crap for 15 seconds of inconvenience. So the guy on the bike was a bit inconsiderate for not moving over. So he did not use hand signals. Share the road. Move on. Jeeze. Now had it been a 1 mile + stretch, that is another story.


Wraiththe, Stop with the
Logic
And reasonable mature attitude

this is UP.net! Damn It,
Where the inmates Run the Asylum​


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

JimKE said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


You should read the latter part of #3 above where it talks about *"sub-standard width lanes" *being an _*exception*_ to the general practice of moving to the right. The very short stretch of road you were on is clearly too narrow for a car to pass that bicycle safely[/QUOTE]

You should read the entirety of 3 which starts with *"when reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict"* And the definition of what constitutes a sub-standard width lane: *"For the purposes of this subsection, a "substandard-width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane."* Being the person who was actually there, there was plenty of space for the cyclist keep to the right.


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

All in all, if a cyclist wants to die, they should just get drunk and try that crap DTS where I see a cyclist a day taken to Cape Regional because they thought "this street is ALL MINE MINE I TELL YOU" and cut off the wrong driver.

The cyclist was being stupid, and THEN, when someone got his attention to correct it, he then proceeded to antagonize someone sitting in a few tons of movable metal. Which adds to the 'how did this guy live to after puberty' factor.

There was plenty of space in that one lane road for both of them as per law, and the bike would not yield. Which puts him in the wrong. Not to mention if he WAS a cop, he should have wrote himself a ticket for impeding traffic when there was an alternative.


----------



## MacAngus (Feb 22, 2018)

BTW, I could care less about youtube views. My channel is small and only a few friends participate. I'm not the one always reviving this thread. And I'm free to post my stories here just as much as anyone else. Notice I do not denigrate or slander anyone else or call 'em names or attribute ulterior motives to them. With that I shall stop responding to ignorance.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Saturday night I saw one of those priceless moments where two morons find each other.

We have a lot of construction on our major E-W expressway in Miami and traffic was backed up. As often happens, a crotch-rocket dumbass moved to the breakdown lane and started passing dozens of cars. As luck would have it, he chose to pull that stunt where a multi-lane on-ramp joins the expressway from the airport.

A testesterone-laden motorist in a Mustang could not bear to wait another 10 seconds, so he decided to cross through the "safety zone" between the two roadways to get around cars in front of him...at precisely the moment Moron #1 was passing through in the breakdown lane.

He hit the motorcyclist, the bike careened into the other roadway, threw the rider, and then bounced straight up in the air, landing on it's side. Fortunately the traffic in those lanes was crawling and the other motorists had time to stop before they ran over the bike rider. Unfortunately, I was done for the night and on my way home, so my dashcam was off. 

To my surprise, the bike rider jumped up and appeared to be okay. There was an Florida Highway Patrol trooper just ahead of the two morons and he either heard the crash or saw it in his rear view mirror. He quickly flipped on his lights and blocked oncoming traffic.

I'm an EMT and would ordinarily stop, but the trooper had the situation in hand, so I just kept on driving.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Here's some light reading for you, FL guy
https://floridacyclinglaw.com/blog/archives/bicycles-may-use-full-lane
http://sbcsite.altervista.org/SBC-Site/Share the Road.html


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

JimKE said:


> In truth, you did NOT post Florida's bike law.
> 
> What you posted was an excerpt of ONE PART of the discussion of bicycle laws from a bicycle club website. And you DID NOT even post that part of the club's explanation that is actually relevant to this conversation.
> 
> ...


I love all the EXCEPTIONS.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

JimKE said:


> Saturday night I saw one of those priceless moments where two morons find each other.
> 
> We have a lot of construction on our major E-W expressway in Miami and traffic was backed up. As often happens, a crotch-rocket dumbass moved to the breakdown lane and started passing dozens of cars. As luck would have it, he chose to pull that stunt where a multi-lane on-ramp joins the expressway from the airport.
> 
> ...


I hope if I'm a casualty of a accident, a passing on-site EMT will display more professional behavior & dedication , stop and assist the single alone Trooper dealing with traffic & the injured simultaneously.

But u ran

Sad


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

ECOMCON said:


> I hope if I'm a casualty of a accident, a passing on-site EMT will display more professional behavior & dedication , stop and assist the alone 1 Trooper
> But u ran
> 
> Sad


I'd hope to get an EMT that was on duty and properly equipped myself, instead of just "some guy" and whatever's in the trunk of his car.


----------



## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

RDWRER said:


> I'd hope to get an EMT that was on duty and properly equipped myself, instead of just "some guy" and whatever's in the trunk of his car.


This.
If there's an on-duty trooper taking care of things before you get to pull over, chances are the first thing he did after gaining control at the scene would be to actually call for a bus with an equally on-duty EMT and equipment. Stopping once the authorities are on scene is likely to only impede their ability to get fast help to the parties involved.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> I'd hope to get an EMT that was on duty and properly equipped myself, instead of just "some guy" and whatever's in the trunk of his car.


Trooper had equipment.
But only two hands. Dealing with traffic and injured simultaneously.
Let's hope you too don't Panic, make excuses & bug-out in an emergency situation


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

ECOMCON said:


> Trooper had equipment.
> But only two hands. Dealing with traffic and injured simultaneously.
> Let's hope you don't wet ur panties & bug out in an emergency situation


Are you going to pay him for his time saving your life off duty? Legitimate question. He has no obligation to save your life and he's probably exhausted from all the life saving he's already done. Hope you don't "bug out" from life itself because he was falling asleep trying to prevent you from bleeding out when there's a perfectly good trooper there to deal with your injury.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Are you going to pay him for his time saving your life off duty? Legitimate question. He has no obligation to save your life and he's probably exhausted from all the life saving he's already done. Hope you don't "bug out" from life itself because he was falling asleep trying to prevent you from bleeding out when there's a perfectly good trooper there to deal with your injury.


......said the uber driver who runs to the forum upset & cursing when not tipped.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

ECOMCON said:


> ......said the uber driver who runs to the forum upset & cursing when not tipped.


Are you taking about yourself here? I implore you to look at my posting history and find even one post where I complained that I was not being tipped. Go ahead. I'll wait.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Are you taking about yourself here? I implore you to look at my posting history and find even one post where I complained that I was not being tipped. Go ahead. I'll wait.


Signing off, don't come back now
Ya' Hear


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

ECOMCON said:


> Signing off, don't come back now
> Ya' Hear​


​I have no idea what the hell you're saying.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> I have no idea what the hell you're saying. Whatever it is you're smoking, you might consider laying off it a bit. Either that or share it so we can all be crazy enough to understand.


SOP for an uber driver When confused: initiate "act out" mode
Including but not limited to: tantrum, foul language and accusations of perceived offender drug use and collusion.

Once again

Bye bye


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Here's some light reading for you, FL guy
> https://floridacyclinglaw.com/blog/archives/bicycles-may-use-full-lane
> http://sbcsite.altervista.org/SBC-Site/Share the Road.html
> 
> ...


Yeah. I think somewhere in my 25 year career as a cop in this town, I may have come across some of that info.



ECOMCON said:


> I hope if I'm a casualty of a accident, a passing on-site EMT will display more professional behavior & dedication , stop and assist the single alone Trooper dealing with traffic & the injured simultaneously.
> 
> But u ran
> 
> Sad


The very FIRST thing you learn in EMT school is "scene safety." If the scene is not safe, you don't go there. That's one of the big differences between cops and EMS personnel -- cops are supposed to charge in; EMTs are supposed to wait until it's safe.

This accident occurred where 8 lanes of traffic converge, and the motorcycle, its rider, and the trooper blocked 4 of those lanes. The motorcycle kid was up and walking around, shaking his hand (probably road rash), and apologizing to the other moron who ran into him. Needless to say, all 8 lanes of impatient Miami motorists were trying to jam into the remaining lanes and stopping would have been unsafe. So I didn't stop.

It's easy to be an Internet hero from the comfort of your keyboard, but in the real world you have to evaluate situations quickly and make real decisions. I made the right decision.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Yeah. I think somewhere in my 25 year career as a cop in this town, I may have come across some of that info.


I've logged many, many miles driving a taxi for decades and rode 10's of thousands of miles on my bike, and there are just going to be drivers who feel entitled and think they have more of a right to be on the road than other people.

I had a very similar experience as the OP situation, except I was the bike rider dealing with a bully driver. I was riding my bike in the gutter of a multilane street and not impeding anybody, and a car pulled up along side me, inches away, honked the horn like the OP did in the video, and the driver yelled to get off the road, like the OP did in the video.

I caught up with her at a stop light and explained the law and the rights of the road. Her response was that bikes are not supposed to be on the road. I tried to calmly explain again, how it all works adding that its also the law to give 3' clearance while passing a bike, but it didn't matter. As the light turned green, she yelled one last time that bikes are not allowed on the street.

Some people won't/can't/refuse to "get it"


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> I've logged many, many miles driving a taxi for decades and rode 10's of thousands of miles on my bike, and there are just going to be drivers who feel entitled and think they have more of a right to be on the road than other people.
> 
> I had a very similar experience as the OP situation, except I was the bike rider dealing with a bully driver. I was riding my bike in the gutter of a multilane street and not impeding anybody, and a car pulled up along side me, inches away, honked the horn like the OP did in the video, and the driver yelled to get off the road, like the OP did in the video.
> 
> ...


_"I caught up with her at a stop light and explained the law and the rights"
_
*Stop playing Cop Taxi2Uber *
Members of Law Enforcement approach vehicles with extreme caution with hand on weapon 
for good reasons:

U don't know who or what is in that vehicle
U don't know what that driver's mental state is
Nor if driver suffers from mental defect 
does that driver have a weapon 
would the driver claim u attacked her be4 blowing a hole in ur chest w/ her registered Glock
ride your bike, but don't engage motorist


----------



## DollarFree (Aug 3, 2018)

U said cyclist, the word entitled is a given and therefore redundant.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

ECOMCON said:


> _"I caught up with her at a stop light and explained the law and the rights"
> _
> *Stop playing Cop Taxi2Uber *
> Members of Law Enforcement approach vehicles with extreme caution with hand on weapon
> ...


Are you seriously advocating never stopping at a stoplight...?


----------



## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

I always say "yield to pedestrians" "bicycle lane" "move over 3 feet" looks great on a tomb stone.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Cyclist is *Dead* Right.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

ECOMCON said:


> _"I caught up with her at a stop light and explained the law and the rights"
> _
> *Stop playing Cop Taxi2Uber *
> Members of Law Enforcement approach vehicles with extreme caution with hand on weapon
> ...


LOL. And who are you telling me what to do and how to live my life?
Couldn't pass up a teachable moment.
You see, I don't live in fear, and I don't cower to bullies, including internet bullies.


----------



## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> LOL. And who are you telling me what to do and how to live my life?
> Couldn't pass up a teachable moment.
> You see, I don't live in fear, and I don't cower to bullies, including internet bullies.


I'm Not an "internet bullie"
However I am, a keyboard warrior !


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The driver was right, the arrogant bicycle weird-0 was in the wrong. This comes from someone who rides a bicycle daily.


moddy, where do you live/ride?


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Ardery said:


> moddy, where do you live/ride?


I live in the Capital of Your Nation and ride there, mostly. I do ride in the suburbs on occasion, but it is mostly the City. I like to ride to the ballpark in baseball season, especially. It is mostly downhill to get there, which means that it is mostly uphill to get back home. Since everyone eats all of this trashy stuff at baseball games, and, I am no exception, at least I can work off all of the trashy stuff that I ate. I am riding a 2009 re-issue of a 1953 Schwinn heavyweight three speed, so I do not get too low gearing to climb gradients. It is mostly steady and mild gradients, but there is one nasty climb from the ballpark up to Capitol Hill and another one a little further North, if I must go on the street. If it is an hour where the Metropolitan Branch trail is safe, it is simply a long, steady and mild climb. Sadly, the Metropolitan Branch Trail is not always safe.


----------



## nurburgringsf (Aug 26, 2016)

Mostly bicyclists' fault. 

If you as the bicyclist have 200ft+ left to go before making your left turn, you do not need to be in the middle of the lane yet. Driver was a bit impatient. Also driver shouldn't have honked and gotten so close to the bicyclist at the stop sign.


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I live in the Capital of Your Nation and ride there, mostly. I do ride in the suburbs on occasion, but it is mostly the City. I like to ride to the ballpark in baseball season, especially. It is mostly downhill to get there, which means that it is mostly uphill to get back home. Since everyone eats all of this trashy stuff at baseball games, and, I am no exception, at least I can work off all of the trashy stuff that I ate. I am riding a 2009 re-issue of a 1953 Schwinn heavyweight three speed, so I do not get too low gearing to climb gradients. It is mostly steady and mild gradients, but there is one nasty climb from the ballpark up to Capitol Hill and another one a little further North, if I must go on the street. If it is an hour where the Metropolitan Branch trail is safe, it is simply a long, steady and mild climb. Sadly, the Metropolitan Branch Trail is not always safe.


excellent, I go to DC area to ride a few times a year. 
I absolutely cannot wait til the Baltimore-DC trail completes with the long awaited Patuxent bridge add on.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

nurburgringsf said:


> If you as the bicyclist have 200ft+ left to go before making your left turn, you do not need to be in the middle of the lane yet. Driver was a bit impatient. Also driver shouldn't have honked and gotten so close to the bicyclist at the stop sign.


I would agree with you, except it looked to me like the right lane went only into the parking lot where the car turned right and the bicyclist moved to the only lane that went where he and OP were going...which was straight ahead. If anything, the bicyclist was moving out of the way of the vehicle making the turn.


----------



## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

Don't matter what the frack the law says, your driving 4000 lbs plus of steel and plastic, he's riding a 25 lb bi-cycle....
Share the road, be patient, and don't be a D1(k
That applies to both bicyclists and motor vehicles


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

kcdrvr15 said:


> Don't matter what the frack the law says, your driving 4000 lbs plus of steel and plastic, he's riding a 25 lb bi-cycle....
> Share the road, be patient, and don't be a D1(k


What's a D1(k? Is that some sort of new retirement plan?

And, while we're on the subject, I see a lot of entitled D-bag ridershare drivers. There's the slow Ahole creeping through the airport trying to get his rematch, or the dillweed that parks in the "through traffic only" sections of the busy hotels. Then there's the dingus that boxes you in at the airport because they don't want to drive a few car lengths further in the CORRECT lane to drop off their passengers at the airport. But yeah, the bike riders are acting selfish.....


----------



## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

TXUbering said:


> What's a D1(k? Is that some sort of new retirement plan?
> 
> And, while we're on the subject, I see a lot of entitled D-bag ridershare drivers. There's the slow Ahole creeping through the airport trying to get his rematch, or the dillweed that parks in the "through traffic only" sections of the busy hotels. Then there's the dingus that boxes you in at the airport because they don't want to drive a few car lengths further in the CORRECT lane to drop off their passengers at the airport. But yeah, the bike riders are acting selfish.....


You are correct, most drivers and bicyclists dont share the road, except you and me, but only me sometimes... lol


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

kcdrvr15 said:


> You are correct, most drivers and bicyclists dont share the road, except you and me, but only me sometimes... lol


I honestly think the rideshare drivers that don't share the road are former taxi drivers, except for that one clueless chick in the Hyundai SUV the other day. She was driving 10 MPH in a 30 MPH zone because she had no clue where she was going. And then she'd try to go the wrong way on a one way street. I'm tempted to go through my dashcam footage and find her vehicle/license plate and report her to Lyft/Uber.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Roads are meant for motorized vehicles that can keep up with the flow of traffic. Roads are not meant for pedestrians to wonder aimlessly, to park your car and for bicycles to slow down traffic and not obey any traffic laws.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> Roads are meant for motorized vehicles that can keep up with the flow of traffic. Roads are not meant for pedestrians to wonder aimlessly, to park your car and for bicycles to slow down traffic and not obey any traffic laws.


Roads are meant for bicycles that can keep up with the flow of traffic. Roads are not meant for pedestrians, to park your bike and for horses to slow down traffic and not obey any traffic laws.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

RDWRER said:


> Roads are meant for bicycles that can keep up with the flow of traffic. Roads are not meant for pedestrians, to park your bike and for horses to slow down traffic and not obey any traffic laws.


I forgot horses, oops. Problem with the bicyclists is they think they can do whatever they want just like pedestrians, not have any common sense. They run the red light, smash into a car and then act like it's the cars fault. Of course it's not all, but a good majority. I'm going to go out on a limb and say roads were built for cars to travel on, nothing more.


----------



## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> I forgot horses, oops. Problem with the bicyclists is they think they can do whatever they want just like pedestrians, not have any common sense. They run the red light, smash into a car and then act like it's the cars fault. Of course it's not all, but a good majority. I'm going to go out on a limb and say roads were built for cars to travel on, nothing more.


Except they literally weren't. They were actually built for pedestrian traffic and vehicles just took them over. All roads go to Rome, and all that.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

RDWRER said:


> Except they literally weren't. They were actually built for pedestrian traffic and vehicles just took them over. All roads go to Rome, and all that.


Then we should give them back.


----------



## AnotherUberGuy (Oct 26, 2018)

I am reminded of my days in college where we were told pedestrians have the right-of-way on whole campus. And there was this certain category of kids who would defiantly walk out in the crosswalk and say go ahead and hit me. It'll be your fault!!!

I still see this today. Folks Zombie Walking in the grocery store parking lot, looking at their phones instead of at the moving vehicles and assuming that nobody will hit them. More than once I have had somebody just walk right out in front of my still moving car. 

Even if The Pedestrian is right, when you have car vs. pedestrian, car always wins.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

AnotherUberGuy said:


> I am reminded of my days in college where we were told pedestrians have the right-of-way on whole campus. And there was this certain category of kids who would defiantly walk out in the crosswalk and say go ahead and hit me. It'll be your fault!!!
> 
> I still see this today. Folks Zombie Walking in the grocery store parking lot, looking at their phones instead of at the moving vehicles and assuming that nobody will hit them. More than once I have had somebody just walk right out in front of my still moving car.
> 
> Even if The Pedestrian is right, when you have car vs. pedestrian, car always wins.


Spot on! We (American Society) created a monster with the phrase (Pedestrian has the right of way). Now we have people that don't even look before crossing. I honk to get their undivided attention. I went to Cuba a couple years ago and their pedestrians only have the right of way after they stop and look in a crosswalk, otherwise they will get hit and they know it. No lolly gagging when crossing the roads down there.


----------



## Angus MacAngus (Jun 7, 2019)

JimKE:
Yeah. I think somewhere in my 25 year career as a cop in this town, I may have come across some of that info. 

The irony of a guy defending a cop impersonator by impersonating a cop. This guy in his threads pretends to be everything, a cop, an emt, a hospital worker, a lawyer... Yeah right.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

MacAngus said:


> You came out attacking me from the beginning. I can defend myself. It's a free internet. Have a nice day too.


No. We all ah e to pay to use the internet. Unless we're at the library or stealing WiFi. But generally, the internet is not free.


----------

