# Storm's Coming



## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

Heart felt. Thanks.


----------



## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

Brilliantly well written. 

Thank you for this.


----------



## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Congrats. Excellent yeoman’s work.


----------



## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day hospitals in Toronto and the surrounding area initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks, uncomfortably and not used to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed by the minute. It was utter chaos. It was difficult to even get into the hospital while my wife was in labour; forms upon forms, hastily-assembled and administered by awkward hospital bureaucrats, just to get through the front door. Even when inside and in the labour ward, it was worrisome that if I left to go home and get anything during her 20+ hours in labour that I would not be allowed back into the building due to unclear Quarantine measures that were changing by the minute. We were fortunate that SARS blew itself out by the Summer of 2003, and even if cities like Hong Kong and Toronto faced a trying financial recovery, it was not quite the global story for long, the stage was set for a bigger, badder, sequel.
> ...


Nice post, you touched all the bases and pulled on all the emo strings... and bashed Americans multiple times, go stuff yourself and your own. You don't know crap about what is happening any more than anyone else.

and ignore


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day hospitals in Toronto and the surrounding area initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks, uncomfortably and not used to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed by the minute. It was utter chaos. It was difficult to even get into the hospital while my wife was in labour; forms upon forms, hastily-assembled and administered by awkward hospital bureaucrats, just to get through the front door. Even when inside and in the labour ward, it was worrisome that if I left to go home and get anything during her 20+ hours in labour that I would not be allowed back into the building due to unclear Quarantine measures that were changing by the minute. We were fortunate that SARS blew itself out by the Summer of 2003, and even if cities like Hong Kong and Toronto faced a trying financial recovery, it was not quite the global story for long, the stage was set for a bigger, badder, sequel.
> ...


Nature.
Thins the heard.

Life.
Designed to Kill you.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Nature.
> Thins the heard.
> 
> Life.
> Designed to Kill you.


This is part of the reason why the whole 'If only the Chinese stopped eating bats and other unsafe animals' argument is a fallacy. When the number of people on Earth starts bumping up against 10 Billion, Mother Nature will continue to escalate her response to culling the culture (be it deer in the north, or bacteria in a petri dish). When the population gets too high, everyone dies, or nearly everyone, so the cycle can start again.


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

We have entered a brave new world, where perhaps all those things people are saying is being melded into this new reality. I do not think we will see a return to what was as it was, but rather the large rearrangement of money will leave more than a mark. Everyone should get their box cutters out and start hacking at those box sides you have walling you in. Everything is going to change.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Amos69 said:


> We have entered a brave new world, where perhaps all those things people are saying is being melded into this new reality. I do not think we will see a return to what was as it was, but rather the large rearrangement of money will leave more than a mark. Everyone should get their box cutters out and start hacking at those box sides you have walling you in. Everything is going to change.


Smaller Boxes are coming.

WORLD WIDE.

We will all have Globalist " Health Chips" in our " "REAL I.D.'s "!

They will use this.
To tighten the noose.

To " Sew the Bag Up ".


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> Smaller Boxes are coming.
> 
> WORLD WIDE.
> 
> ...


Only if you allow that. Listen , most Americans live in tiny little boxes with extremely high sides. That is to say we ( modern humans not just Americans) tend to believe only the lies they are taught to believe. Independent thought has fallen by the wayside long ago. You can allow yourself to be stuffed into a smaller box, but that is your choice.

All change brings opportunity. Do not run and hide from this change, but rather figure out how to make it work best for you.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Amos69 said:


> Only if you allow that. Listen , most Americans live in tiny little boxes with extremely high sides. That is to say we ( modern humans not just Americans) tend to believe only the lies they are taught to believe. Independent thought has fallen by the wayside long ago. You can allow yourself to be stuffed into a smaller box, but that is your choice.
> 
> All change brings opportunity. Do not run and hide from this change, but rather figure out how to make it work best for you.


" FREE WILL " !


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

YES, but even beyond that. Making better choices. Choices that will lead you toward your goals and not away from them. Diversifying income and becoming aware of not just your current circumstances, but the opportunities that are around you that will help you find your way forward. 

Everyone should be reassessing their goal boards and what the branches of that trees look like, and making alternate plans.

Yesterday is gone, and tomorrow is still unknown.
Everyone has Free will. Most just do not know what to do with it.


----------



## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day hospitals in Toronto and the surrounding area initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks, uncomfortably and not used to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed by the minute. It was utter chaos. It was difficult to even get into the hospital while my wife was in labour; forms upon forms, hastily-assembled and administered by awkward hospital bureaucrats, just to get through the front door. Even when inside and in the labour ward, it was worrisome that if I left to go home and get anything during her 20+ hours in labour that I would not be allowed back into the building due to unclear Quarantine measures that were changing by the minute. We were fortunate that SARS blew itself out by the Summer of 2003, and even if cities like Hong Kong and Toronto faced a trying financial recovery, it was not quite the global story for long, the stage was set for a bigger, badder, sequel.
> ...


Unbelievable what has just happened to the entire global community. This will be as disruptive as the events leading up to WWII and its' gruesome aftermath. A person who frequents the county and is a scientist and not a doctor, has a friend who is an ER Physician and he sent this are way yesterday. Please consider carefully before showing to your family. Also best not to pass it on until I can be absolutely assured this is legitimate accounting. I see that FB has quickly taken this down.

I am an ER MD in New Orleans, Every one of my colleagues have now seen several hundred Covid 19 patients and this is what I think I know.

Clinical course is predictable.
2-11 days after exposure (day 5 on average) flu like symptoms start. Common are fever, headache, dry cough, myalgias(back pain), nausea without vomiting, abdominal discomfort with some diarrhea, loss of smell, anorexia, fatigue.

Day 5 of symptoms- increased SOB, and bilateral viral pneumonia from direct viral damage to lung parenchyma.

Day 10- Cytokine storm leading to acute ARDS and multiorgan failure. You can literally watch it happen in a matter of hours.

81% mild symptoms, 14% severe symptoms requiring hospitalization, 5% critical.

Patient presentation is varied. Patients are coming in hypoxic (even 75%) without dyspnea. I have seen Covid patients present with encephalopathy, renal failure from dehydration, DKA. I have seen the bilateral interstitial pneumonia on the xray of the asymptomatic shoulder dislocation or on the CT's of the (respiratory) asymptomatic polytrauma patient. Essentially if they are in my ER, they have it. Seen three positive flu swabs in 2 weeks and all three had Covid 19 as well. Somehow this ***** has told all other disease processes to get out of town.

China reported 15% cardiac involvement. I have seen covid 19 patients present with myocarditis, pericarditis, new onset CHF and new onset atrial fibrillation. I still order a troponin, but no cardiologist will treat no matter what the number in a suspected Covid 19 patient. Even our non covid 19 STEMIs at all of our facilities are getting TPA in the ED and rescue PCI at 60 minutes only if TPA fails.

Diagnostic
CXR- bilateral interstitial pneumonia (anecdotally starts most often in the RLL so bilateral on CXR is not required). The hypoxia does not correlate with the CXR findings. Their lungs do not sound bad. Keep your stethoscope in your pocket and evaluate with your eyes and pulse ox.

Labs- WBC low, Lymphocytes low, platelets lower then their normal, Procalcitonin normal in 95%
CRP and Ferritin elevated most often. CPK, D-Dimer, LDH, Alk Phos/AST/ALT commonly elevated.
Notice D-Dimer- I would be very careful about CT PE these patients for their hypoxia. The patients receiving IV contrast are going into renal failure and on the vent sooner.

Basically, if you have a bilateral pneumonia with normal to low WBC, lymphopenia, normal procalcitonin, elevated CRP and ferritin- you have covid-19 and do not need a nasal swab to tell you that.

A ratio of absolute neutrophil count to absolute lymphocyte count greater than 3.5 may be the highest predictor of poor outcome. the UK is automatically intubating these patients for expected outcomes regardless of their clinical presentation.

An elevated Interleukin-6 (IL6) is an indicator of their cytokine storm. If this is elevated watch these patients closely with both eyes.

Other factors that appear to be predictive of poor outcomes are thrombocytopenia and LFTs 5x upper limit of normal.

Disposition
I had never discharged multifocal pneumonia before. Now I personally do it 12-15 times a shift. 2 weeks ago we were admitting anyone who needed supplemental oxygen. Now we are discharging with oxygen if the patient is comfortable and oxygenating above 92% on nasal cannula. We have contracted with a company that sends a paramedic to their home twice daily to check on them and record a pulse ox. We know many of these patients will bounce back but if it saves a bed for a day we have accomplished something. Obviously we are fearful some won't make it back.

We are a small community hospital. Our 22 bed ICU and now a 4 bed Endoscopy suite are all Covid 19. All of these patients are intubated except one. 75% of our floor beds have been cohorted into covid 19 wards and are full. We are averaging 4 rescue intubations a day on the floor. We now have 9 vented patients in our ER transferred down from the floor after intubation.

Luckily we are part of a larger hospital group. Our main teaching hospital repurposed space to open 50 new Covid 19 ICU beds this past Sunday so these numbers are with significant decompression. Today those 50 beds are full. They are opening 30 more by Friday. But even with the "lockdown", our AI models are expecting a 200-400% increase in covid 19 patients by 4/4/2020.

Treatment
Supportive

worldwide 86% of covid 19 patients that go on a vent die. Seattle reporting 70%. Our hospital has had 5 deaths and one patient who was extubated. Extubation happens on day 10 per the Chinese and day 11 per Seattle.

Plaquenil which has weak ACE2 blockade doesn't appear to be a savior of any kind in our patient population. Theoretically, it may have some prophylactic properties but so far it is difficult to see the benefit to our hospitalized patients, but we are using it and the studies will tell. With Plaquenil's potential QT prolongation and liver toxic effects (both particularly problematic in covid 19 patients), I am not longer selectively prescribing this medication as I stated on a previous post.

We are also using Azithromycin, but are intermittently running out of IV.

Do not give these patient's standard sepsis fluid resuscitation. Be very judicious with the fluids as it hastens their respiratory decompensation. Outside the DKA and renal failure dehydration, leave them dry.

Proning vented patients significantly helps oxygenation. Even self proning the ones on nasal cannula helps.

Vent settings- Usual ARDS stuff, low volume, permissive hypercapnia, etc. Except for Peep of 5 will not do. Start at 14 and you may go up to 25 if needed.

Do not use Bipap- it does not work well and is a significant exposure risk with high levels of aerosolized virus to you and your staff. Even after a cough or sneeze this virus can aerosolize up to 3 hours.

The same goes for nebulizer treatments. Use MDI. you can give 8-10 puffs at one time of an albuterol MDI. Use only if wheezing which isn't often with covid 19. If you have to give a nebulizer must be in a negative pressure room; and if you can, instruct the patient on how to start it after you leave the room.

Do not use steroids, it makes this worse. Push out to your urgent cares to stop their usual practice of steroid shots for their URI/bronchitis.

We are currently out of Versed, Fentanyl, and intermittently Propofol. Get the dosing of Precedex and Nimbex back in your heads.

One of my colleagues who is a 31 yo old female who graduated residency last may with no health problems and normal BMI is out with the symptoms and an SaO2 of 92%. She will be the first of many.

I PPE best I have. I do wear a MaxAir PAPR the entire shift. I do not take it off to eat or drink during the shift. I undress in the garage and go straight to the shower. My wife and kids fled to her parents outside Hattiesburg. The stress and exposure at work coupled with the isolation at home is trying. But everyone is going through something right now. Everyone is scared; patients and employees. But we are the leaders of that emergency room. Be nice to your nurses and staff. Show by example how to tackle this crisis head on. Good luck to us all."


----------



## Joesmith2012 (Oct 7, 2017)

You must not be following real news and you are a fake news addict, the spread in USA has slowed down, and with warm weather coming there is a good chance the curve will flatten. Keep fantasizing and dreaming about the demise of America, watch us americans prove you wrong over and over and over again and again like we have been doing for the past few centuries.


----------



## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

Joesmith2012 said:


> You must not be following real news and you are a fake news addict, the spread in USA has slowed down, and with warm weather coming there is a good chance the curve will flatten. Keep fantasizing and dreaming about the demise of America, watch us americans prove you wrong over and over and over again and again like we have been doing for the past few centuries.


I have never seen you on UP forum and have no idea what your intentions are but we are a tight collective of drivers and past drivers who are for the most part very science literate and vet to the best of our abilities. My 31 years in science and medical publishing along with my colleagues here called this as early as mid January. If you have anything that is science based feel free to contribute but to this point the epidemiology is very clear and precise, this is an unprecedented pandemic. If you really want to delve into the complexity please note how complicated this will be with the most recent accounting as of yesterday morning of 2,434 full #SARSCoV2 genomes now @GISAID, sorting as 3 clades plus "others." •S clade 565 genomes •G clade 1,064 •V clade 230 •Other clades 575 North America is overwhelmingly S clade. Europe & nor West Africa are G clade. There's clear geographical COVID19 distribution.


----------



## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> " FREE WILL " !


That's how the Donald ended up in power during Americas worst crisis ever..



Joesmith2012 said:


> You must not be following real news and you are a fake news addict, the spread in USA has slowed down, and with warm weather coming there is a good chance the curve will flatten. Keep fantasizing and dreaming about the demise of America, watch us americans prove you wrong over and over and over again and again like we have been doing for the past few centuries.


Geez.. what's wrong with you and some of your fellow Americans. Why do you think Canada fantasizes about Americas demise? What happened to you as a child to skew your thought process so drastically?

Canadians have family and friends in the US. We enjoy your media and benefit from trade.

And most importantly, who's mistakes are we going to learn from if not Americas? "You guys seem to be the absolute best, doing a tremendous job at screwing up...:

Ok. Let's get to the meat and potatoes of this argument. The spread has not slowed down. If you don't believe science then at least read the following article about how selfish and stupid people can be

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...l-distancing-rules-to-watch-usns-comfort/amp/
Here is some food for thought on American humanity.

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/31/rikers-island-coronavirus-mass-graves/
Ps. I bet Americans are missing Obama right about now


----------



## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Don’t let a good crisis go to waste.


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Joesmith2012 said:


> You must not be following real news and you are a fake news addict, the spread in USA has slowed down, and with warm weather coming there is a good chance the curve will flatten. Keep fantasizing and dreaming about the demise of America, watch us americans prove you wrong over and over and over again and again like we have been doing for the past few centuries.


---------------------------------
Exactly what news are you referring to ??? Please produce the news link that states that this virus is slowing down or even close to flattening out. I watch world news and American news 3X a day and it is grim.

Kurt --- thank you, Well written. Be safe !!


----------



## 2starDriver (Mar 22, 2019)

Didn’t read. Summary?


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> This is part of the reason why the whole 'If only the Chinese stopped eating bats and other unsafe animals' argument is a fallacy. When the number of people on Earth starts bumping up against 10 Billion, Mother Nature will continue to escalate her response to culling the culture (be it deer in the north, or bacteria in a petri dish). When the population gets too high, everyone dies, or nearly everyone, so the cycle can start again.


So where does this exactly originate from? And is there soemthing to show that it will fly from animal to animal organically?

better question is since the existence of this type of viruses are known, even if it's a new strain, what education and preventative measures have been taught to folks in rural areas or just collectively as a whole?


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

2starDriver said:


> Didn't read. Summary?


SUMMARY: We're in for a few months of hell, much of it our own making. USA has it coming bad. Even the better countries at this don't have it good. If it wasn't A Chinese Wet Market, it would be something else. Stay Safe.



sellkatsell44 said:


> So where does this exactly originate from? And is there soemthing to show that it will fly from animal to animal organically?
> 
> better question is since the existence of this type of viruses are known, even if it's a new strain, what education and preventative measures have been taught to folks in rural areas or just collectively as a whole?


I think you might have missed the point. If not COVID-19, then something else. We have to get better at detecting. Testing. And Protocols. As we cross 8 Billion souls on Planet Earth, the odds of more of these coming, irrespective of what animal crossover event, or what country. We have to be better as a society to identify and contain. People are going to do what they do. You can't stop Drinking by Prohibition. You cannot stop Prostitution by Banning it. You cannot stop Drug Use by building prisons. You cannot stop CoronaViruses by shaming certain cultures for eating certain animals or plants, or anything else.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I think you might have missed the point. If not COVID-19, then something else. We have to get better at detecting. Testing. And Protocols. As we cross 8 Billion souls on Planet Earth, the odds of more of these coming, irrespective of what animal crossover event, or what country. We have to be better as a society to identify and contain. People are going to do what they do. You can't stop Drinking by Prohibition. You cannot stop Prostitution by Banning it. You cannot stop Drug Use by building prisons. You cannot stop CoronaViruses by shaming certain cultures for eating certain animals or plants, or anything else.


I do know but maybe we can't see eye to eye on this.

to you it's shaming.

to me, what are we? Parents? No. Of course not.

but what one does, have effect on others. Some very very tiny and not apparent. Others, in a much larger scale as corvid 19.

so you say it's shaming, I say it's bringing to light what should not have been done. At this day and age, especially for a country of that wealth-it's citizens should not be uneducated in the consequences of their actions. Just because they don't fully comprehend the results? I don't know about you, but my education tells me not to touch what I don't know and to take caution with what I don't fully understand.

not to mention, if they had means to get food-if the government supported agriculture and meat industry and regulated it, and made sure citizens had access like we do in the US... in combination with education, do you think they'd still be eating bats?

On my trip in Malawi, some of the educators there shared their struggle to get the locals to not hunt certain wildlife due to their past "beliefs" and superstitions. And also, when they don't have much, they look for what they can to eat.

Science, education goes a long way.

And providing and guiding the pple. China's government is a whole 'nother tangent I don't want to get into but

I don't think we are going to come into agreement. I think if you leave certain parts of nature alone, for the most part, you're not going to have this backlash. Bats do not venture out to us, if we leave them in their habitat and don't get greedy with space, etc.

Btw we only are reactive to what is being caused by other countries.

it is sad that we have to, imho. Because this is an added expense that to me, doesn't have a clear definition of being needed if there wasn't this cross contamination that wouldn't occur if people stayed in their lanes so to speak.


----------



## faruktheblackone (Aug 31, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> This is part of the reason why the whole 'If only the Chinese stopped eating bats and other unsafe animals' argument is a fallacy. When the number of people on Earth starts bumping up against 10 Billion, Mother Nature will continue to escalate her response to culling the culture (be it deer in the north, or bacteria in a petri dish). When the population gets too high, everyone dies, or nearly everyone, so the cycle can start again.


This universe has an Owner who feeds up visible or invisible creations perfectly every single second last couple million years and doesn't need your stupid predictions ,keep them for yourself ,if people would disappear because of lack food Africans supposed to be gone already for last 200 years but just to make you get crazy The Creator makes them survive against to all f.cking genosides,I'm just laughing because He punishes the infidels challenging Him in a different way like a fly killing the most powerful and wild empire in his palace by asking his assistants to hit his head with a hammer just to get rid off the fly in his head


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

faruktheblackone said:


> This universe has an Owner who feeds up visible or invisible creations perfectly every single second last couple million years and doesn't need your stupid predictions ,keep them for yourself ,if people would disappear because of lack food Africans supposed to be gone already for last 200 years but just to make you get crazy The Creator makes them survive against to all f.cking genosides,I'm just laughing because He punishes the infidels challenging Him in a different way like a fly killing the most powerful and wild empire in his palace by asking his assistants to hit his head with a hammer just to get rid off the fly in his head


Sorry. Mythology isn't going to save us. Not today. Good luck with your beliefs in that department. If it were up to most religious leaders, we would still not know about blood types or bacteria. Faith is nice, but not practical as a working solution.


----------



## everydayimubering (Aug 5, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> ---------------------------------
> Exactly what news are you referring to ???


She's most likely talking about Hillbilly News from the deep South somewhere along the Bible Belt - solid Trump wasteland, a.k.a "Hell"! And remember, with warm weather coming "there is a good chance" the curve will flatten. So let's pray and keep her in our thoughts.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

kcdrvr15 said:


> Nice post, you touched all the bases and pulled on all the emo strings... and bashed Americans multiple times, go stuff yourself and your own. You don't know crap about what is happening any more than anyone else.
> 
> and ignore


Ah, diddums poor little baby feelings get hurt by the bad bad man speaking the truth?

Well,too ****ing bad.

This is reality and if it is too tough for you to handle I, for one, support the destmatification of the Final Solution.
In your case, though, seeing as "harsh reality" is so unbearable you probably would chicken out and **** it up.
But, feel free to seriously consider it.

Reality.
Our President acted like this was nothing important.
He ordered CDC and the Department of Health and Human Services to down play this.
He refused non "America First" test kits.
AND only recently as the Fact Based Reporting PROVED that the numbers he had been warned would happen On Exactly The Time Line He Was Given (Doubling ever 2.3 to 3 days as was proven again with our Doubling of confirmed cases on the 3 day side of 2.3 and doubling of the Deaths on the 2 day side of 2.3 days).

But, hey, all those scientists and doctors Telling you and me and everyone that can read a website that this is happening... Yeah? According to your ignorance they are all lying?

I will proudly join those "ignored" by you.



Joesmith2012 said:


> You must not be following real news and you are a fake news addict, the spread in USA has slowed down, and with warm weather coming there is a good chance the curve will flatten. Keep fantasizing and dreaming about the demise of America, watch us americans prove you wrong over and over and over again and again like we have been doing for the past few centuries.


We went from 100,000 confirmed infections to 200,000 in less than 3 days.
We went from 2000 deaths to 4000 deaths in Just Over 2 days.

What ****ing slowing down is your brain talking about.
We are on track for 400,000 cases by Sunday Night with 8000 deaths either earlier in the day Sunday or as early as Saturday night.

Stop smoking what ever you are on (or go back on your anti psychotic meds) because you are officially past wackadoodlepoodle and went full ******. Never go full ******.


----------



## faruktheblackone (Aug 31, 2019)

Whatever my friends does anyone know where do the salmon fishes go at the end even though we have this sophisticated science and technology? No nobody does,how small we are?


----------



## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> SUMMARY: We're in for a few months of hell, much of it our own making. USA has it coming bad. Even the better countries at this don't have it good. If it wasn't A Chinese Wet Market, it would be something else. Stay Safe.
> 
> 
> I think you might have missed the point. If not COVID-19, then something else. We have to get better at detecting. Testing. And Protocols. As we cross 8 Billion souls on Planet Earth, the odds of more of these coming, irrespective of what animal crossover event, or what country. We have to be better as a society to identify and contain. People are going to do what they do. You can't stop Drinking by Prohibition. You cannot stop Prostitution by Banning it. You cannot stop Drug Use by building prisons. You cannot stop CoronaViruses by shaming certain cultures for eating certain animals or plants, or anything else.


You are just saying that because westerners have a working relationship and a need for Chinese people...if this had came from Africans eating bats...everyone would say nuke the entire continent


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

faruktheblackone said:


> This universe has an Owner who feeds up visible or invisible creations perfectly every single second last couple million years and doesn't need your stupid predictions ,keep them for yourself ,if people would disappear because of lack food Africans supposed to be gone already for last 200 years but just to make you get crazy The Creator makes them survive against to all f.cking genosides,I'm just laughing because He punishes the infidels challenging Him in a different way like a fly killing the most powerful and wild empire in his palace by asking his assistants to hit his head with a hammer just to get rid off the fly in his head


I like Acid too.



Joesmith2012 said:


> You must not be following real news and you are a fake news addict, the spread in USA has slowed down, and with warm weather coming there is a good chance the curve will flatten. Keep fantasizing and dreaming about the demise of America, watch us americans prove you wrong over and over and over again and again like we have been doing for the past few centuries.


Yes I like Acid too!


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> You are just saying that because westerners have a working relationship and a need for Chinese people...if this had came from Africans eating bats...everyone would say nuke the entire continent


No. Sane people do not advocate 'nuking anything' (Except for Michael Biehn in ALIENS) when other options are available. We're all people on this planet. Nobody should be 'nuked.'


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

_"The governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, has declared that "We're not going to put a dollar figure on human life." It was meant as a rallying-cry from a courageous man whose state is overwhelmed. Yet by brushing trade-offs aside, Mr Cuomo was in fact advocating a choice-one that does not begin to reckon with the litany of consequences among his wider community. It sounds hard-hearted but a dollar figure on life, or at least some way of thinking systematically, is precisely what leaders will need if they are to see their way through the harrowing months to come. As in that hospital ward, trade-offs are unavoidable."_

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2...rk-choices-between-life-death-and-the-economy


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Amos69 said:


> We have entered a brave new world, where perhaps all those things people are saying is being melded into this new reality. I do not think we will see a return to what was as it was, but rather the large rearrangement of money will leave more than a mark. Everyone should get their box cutters out and start hacking at those box sides you have walling you in. Everything is going to change.


It has already changed.


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I do know but maybe we can't see eye to eye on this.
> 
> to you it's shaming.
> 
> ...


This post would be a lot easier to read if the double spacing were controlled or connected. Just saying!


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Big Lou said:


> This post would be a lot easier to read if the double spacing were controlled or connected. Just saying!


Lol, should I write in a huge paragraph block instead?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Lol, should I write in a huge paragraph block instead?


Ofhdlhfododldffjckcgkxhldohxhcgkzkskgxgxlxlgxlgxkgkgktskirrakgskgskgzkxogxoxbdhjdd8gkßkyeohdlhcpculxkyfvjjcyxitskgdohdlhdld !



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Ofhdlhfododldffjckcgkxhldohxhcgkzkskgxgxlxlgxlgxkgkgktskirrakgskgskgzkxogxoxbdhjdd8gkßkyeohdlhcpculxkyfvjjcyxitskgdohdlhdld !


(in his mother tongue)


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Lol, should I write in a huge paragraph block instead?


I like your style.


----------



## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

I was stationed at Elmendorf AFB in Alaska back in 2003. It was business as usual for us out there. I honestly don't even remember anything about the SARS epidemic.


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I like your style.


Have you seen her style?


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Cdub2k said:


> I was stationed at Elmendorf AFB in Alaska back in 2003. It was business as usual for us out there. I honestly don't even remember anything about the SARS epidemic.


If you lived in Toronto, it was COVID-19 level local news for weeks. It was a huge deal. The mayor here paid THE ROLLING STONES to do a benefit concert to 'prove' it was safe and healthy to do business and have conferences here in Toronto after it all settled down. Estimated cost to TORONTO's economy in 2003 was over C$1Billion.


----------



## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> Only if you allow that. Listen , most Americans live in tiny little boxes with extremely high sides. That is to say we ( modern humans not just Americans) tend to believe only the lies they are taught to believe. Independent thought has fallen by the wayside long ago. You can allow yourself to be stuffed into a smaller box, but that is your choice.
> 
> All change brings opportunity. Do not run and hide from this change, but rather figure out how to make it work best for you.


Be careful! Talk like this and they will start thinking it's a fox thing.


----------



## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

I have been to several wet markets in Asia (never been to China). I saw one wet market I refused to enter because of the extreme filth apparent just from being roadside and refused to leave the vehicle. Basically rows and rows of butchering counters that get rinsed off to the "floor" which is often concrete or only compacted dirt. The raw sides are hooked up over the counters, and cuts are splayed out on the counters themselves. Everyone shops around inside this area, splish-sploshing along looking for their favorite thing they need for tonight's supper. Then they all do the same thing the next day. 
And I believe they can change and move away from this. However, restaurants and other roadside vendors will have similar setups including keeping live animals beside the eating areas. The amount of food-borne illness is just staggering. So many are transitioning to supermarkets now they can't build them fast enough. Supermarkets are where rationing happens as a rule. To buy groceries in a supermarket you must have a national ID. Costco-like supercenters require ID's to get on a shuttle that takes you the front door within the compound. Supercenters are usually located near national border crossings, which keeps importing and transport fees down to a minimum. 
Not all races within a certain country qualify for national ID cards, as official policies there are made to benefit a single pure national racial identity. I think communist nations are the worst offenders in this regard. Many many racial identities exist, but billboards proclaim the Party procures benefits on behalf of the pure race above all others. This way there will always be an impoverished bottom caste which may be taken advantage of by Party members. 
To a certain extent the Party maintains a third-world sub-nation in each of its jurisdictions. If a member of the low caste rises up to become property owners or farmers, they are then subject to having their entire livelihood transferred to a Party member or their designee. Former land owners in these cases drop back down into the streets, eventually ending up in the cities again, where beggars can be choosers. There is no recourse for racially impure folk of communist nations. If they appear in court or town hall, a hundred Party members with nothing better to do stand around them and shout over their pleas. It is their constitutional right to appear and speak, but the Party trumps the rights of those who do not belong to the master race.
Humanity is cruel, people. The cruelty perpetuates the conditions that allowed Covid-19 to come down upon us all.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Youburr said:


> I have been to several wet markets in Asia (never been to China). I saw one wet market I refused to enter because of the extreme filth apparent just from being roadside and refused to leave the vehicle. Basically rows and rows of butchering counters that get rinsed off to the "floor" which is often concrete or only compacted dirt. The raw sides are hooked up over the counters, and cuts are splayed out on the counters themselves. Everyone shops around inside this area, splish-sploshing along looking for their favorite thing they need for tonight's supper. Then they all do the same thing the next day.
> And I believe they can change and move away from this. However, restaurants and other roadside vendors will have similar setups including keeping live animals beside the eating areas. The amount of food-borne illness is just staggering. So many are transitioning to supermarkets now they can't build them fast enough. Supermarkets are where rationing happens as a rule. To buy groceries in a supermarket you must have a national ID. Costco-like supercenters require ID's to get on a shuttle that takes you the front door within the compound. Supercenters are usually located near national border crossings, which keeps importing and transport fees down to a minimum.
> Not all races within a certain country qualify for national ID cards, as official policies there are made to benefit a single pure national racial identity. I think communist nations are the worst offenders in this regard. Many many racial identities exist, but billboards proclaim the Party procures benefits on behalf of the pure race above all others. This way there will always be an impoverished bottom caste which may be taken advantage of by Party members.
> To a certain extent the Party maintains a third-world sub-nation in each of its jurisdictions. If a member of the low caste rises up to become property owners or farmers, they are then subject to having their entire livelihood transferred to a Party member or their designee. Former land owners in these cases drop back down into the streets, eventually ending up in the cities again, where beggars can be choosers. There is no recourse for racially impure folk of communist nations. If they appear in court or town hall, a hundred Party members with nothing better to do stand around them and shout over their pleas. It is their constitutional right to appear and speak, but the Party trumps the rights of those who do not belong to the master race.
> Humanity is cruel, people. The cruelty perpetuates the conditions that allowed Covid-19 to come down upon us all.


While maybe not as dramatic as the above. I am willing to bet it is not a 'communism' or 'authoritarian' problem. Late Stage Capitalism, I'm sure has this kind of thing happening in the more rural (indigenous peoples) and poor (ozarks, etc. ) parts of North American. Regions in all three countries, Canada, USA, Mexico. Capitalism is not a panacea for these problems, it just hides them better.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> While maybe not as dramatic as the above. I am willing to bet it is not a 'communism' or 'authoritarian' problem. Late Stage Capitalism, I'm sure has this kind of thing happening in the more rural (indigenous peoples) and poor (ozarks, etc. ) parts of North American. Regions in all three countries, Canada, USA, Mexico. Capitalism is not a panacea for these problems, it just hides them better.


I don't think you can even call China "communist" anymore: I've seen it more appropriately described as a Dictatorship run by The Chamber of Commerce.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I don't think you can even call China "communist" anymore: I've seen it more appropriately described as a Dictatorship run by The Chamber of Commerce.


'State Capitalism' i believe is the common nomenclature these days.


----------



## nurburgringsf (Aug 26, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> So where does this exactly originate from? And is there soemthing to show that it will fly from animal to animal organically?
> 
> better question is since the existence of this type of viruses are known, even if it's a new strain, what education and preventative measures have been taught to folks in rural areas or just collectively as a whole?


lol the coronavirus is a SARS (severe acute respiratory virus) like virus. Meaning you only experience the typical flu symptoms at first because your upper respiratory tract is infected (nose & throat). Then when it gets into your lungs. Its game over. It seems whats common according to doctors and patients themselves is that this virus hits like a train (hence severe "acute" respiratory) and people have serious trouble breathing within 3 - 6 hours.

Cytokine storm is when your immune system attacks your vital organs including your lungs. Cytokine storm happens with ebola as well. It turns your vital organs into bloody jello and as far as the lungs it fills it up with fluid. Basically you're slowly suffocating from there. Ebola is far far worst though because blood is splurging out from all of your orifices (eyes, nose, mouth, anus, urethra) (bleeding from the inside).

Bats are a super host of many deadly viruses. They can withstand it but most mammals cannot. They are the only flying mammals in the entire animal kingdom (flying squirrels can only glide). Bats can naturally resist many viruses because of the fact that they can fly; flapping their wings causes inflammation and their whole immune system is naturally made for carrying many deadly viruses.






"
*Why Bats Are The Perfect Breeding Ground For Viruses*
"


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

nurburgringsf said:


> lol the coronavirus is a SARS (severe acute respiratory virus) like virus. Meaning you experience the typical flu symptoms at first because your upper respiratory tract is infected. Then when it gets into your lungs. Its game over. It seems whats common according to doctors and patients themselves is that this virus hits like a train (hence severe "acute" respiratory).
> 
> Cytokine storm is when your immune system attacks your vital organs including your lungs. Cytokine storm happens with ebola as well. It turns your vital organs into bloody jello and as far as the lungs it fills it up with fluid. Basically you're slowly suffocating from there.
> 
> ...


Lol you didn't understand the purpose of my asking the question.

But thanks for telling me already what I know.

now tell me how is it that the super host bats got it to us humans. Do bats seek Humans? Do they go into villages? Is their habitat normally where humans reside? Please explain or rather show the data or proof (actual) to what you're about to tell me.


----------



## nurburgringsf (Aug 26, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Lol you didn't understand the purpose of my asking the question.
> 
> But thanks for telling me already what I know.
> 
> now tell me how is it that the super host bats got it to us humans. Do bats seek Humans? Do they go into villages? Is their habitat normally where humans reside? Please explain or rather show the data or proof (actual) to what you're about to tell me.


Many people in Africa and in Asia (not just China) rely on bush meat for protein. Bats being one of them which is super [email protected] SF is a bubble yes but you can think of the west as a bubble as well. There is ignorance and superstition wherever you go in the world but in the case of Africa and East Asia, eating bats which puts all of us at risk.

Ebola outbreak of Liberia in 2014: Ebola is far more deadlier than Covid19 or SARS but there was not that much air travel between Liberia and much of the world. Wuhan? Now thats a major city in central China. Its a major railroad center I think. It was a major battle ground during the 2nd Sino-Japanese war.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

nurburgringsf said:


> Many people in Africa and in Asia (not just China) rely on bush meat for protein. Bats being one of them which is super [email protected] SF is a bubble yes but you can think of the west as a bubble as well. There is ignorance and superstition wherever you go in the world but in the case of Africa and East Asia, eating bats which puts all of us at risk.
> 
> Ebola outbreak of Liberia in 2014: Ebola is far more deadlier than Covid19 or SARS but there was not that much air travel between Liberia and much of the world. Wuhan? Now thats a major city in central China. Its a major railroad center I think. It was a major battle ground during the 2nd Sino-Japanese war.


Yes, and I never focused on china alone but facts are facts.

you're putting words into my mouth and making assumptions worthy of your intellect.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)




----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> now tell me how is it that the super host bats got it to us humans. Do bats seek Humans? Do they go into villages? Is their habitat normally where humans reside? Please explain or rather show the data or proof (actual) to what you're about to tell me.


I'm not sure what it is that you're not getting. You understand that in some parts of the world, people eat bats, right? People in the US have been known to eat squirrel, opossum, etc., so it shouldn't be all that surprising to you. Surely you must have heard by now about the Wuhan "wet market" where "exotic" live animals are slaughtered on the spot and sold for consumption.



Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 443234


I guess I figured Dwight Schrute for more of a "Doritos guy".


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I'm not sure what it is that you're not getting. You understand that in some parts of the world, people eat bats, right? People in the US have been known to eat squirrel, opossum, etc., so it shouldn't be all that surprising to you. Surely you must have heard by now about the Wuhan "wet market" where "exotic" live animals are slaughtered on the spot and sold for consumption.


I'm not sure if you're getting my indirect lead.

or the fact that everyone should know by now that pple in China eat bats and that's what caused this.

did you read everything? I bet not. You just read that and jumped at the chance to feel big.

&#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I'm not sure if you're getting my indirect lead.
> 
> or the fact that everyone should know by now that pple in China eat bats and that's what caused this.
> 
> ...


So, apparently your "indirect point" is either:
(1) people should be educated as to how to eat bats safely (good luck on that one), or
(2) people should completely stop eating bats altogether (similarly, good luck)


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> So, apparently your "indirect point" is either:
> (1) people should be educated as to how to eat bats safely (good luck on that one), or
> (2) people should completely stop eating bats altogether (similarly, good luck)


Try this for reading, you and @nurburgringsf could do with a bit more reading and a lot less typing.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Try this for reading, you and @nurburgringsf could do with a bit more reading and a lot less typing.
> View attachment 443258


Pardon me, Dimbulb, but "education and preventative measures" would fall under (1) if we're talking about how to eat them safely, or (2) if completely preventing further consumption is the goal. That was precisely the question, which you declined to answer.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> Pardon me, Dimbulb, but "education and preventative measures" would fall under (1) if we're talking about how to eat them safely, or (2), if completely preventing further consumption is the goal.


*resorting to name calling is the first sign of "can't find solid grounds to make a proper refute" so thank you for conceding that point.*

now to address that, education means understanding things beyond just surface but at a molecular level so yes, understanding what we're putting into our bodies. and preventative measures is speaking of how to safeguard one self while attempting to understand what we're dealing with--whether it's safe or not. when you're in a lab, don't you wear protective gear before attempting to dissect an unknown?


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> *resorting to name calling is the first sign of "can't find solid grounds to make a proper refute" so thank you for conceding that point.*
> 
> now to address that, education means understanding things beyond just surface but at a molecular level so yes, understanding what we're putting into our bodies. and preventative measures is speaking of how to safeguard one self while attempting to understand what we're dealing with--whether it's safe or not. when you're in a lab, don't you wear protective gear before attempting to dissect an unknown?


So which is it: do you want them to keep eating them but safely, or stop eating them altogether? It's a _really_ simple question which you are going to great lengths to not answer.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day hospitals in Toronto and the surrounding area initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks, uncomfortably and not used to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed by the minute. It was utter chaos. It was difficult to even get into the hospital while my wife was in labour; forms upon forms, hastily-assembled and administered by awkward hospital bureaucrats, just to get through the front door. Even when inside and in the labour ward, it was worrisome that if I left to go home and get anything during her 20+ hours in labour that I would not be allowed back into the building due to unclear Quarantine measures that were changing by the minute. We were fortunate that SARS blew itself out by the Summer of 2003, and even if cities like Hong Kong and Toronto faced a trying financial recovery, it was not quite the global story for long, the stage was set for a bigger, badder, sequel.
> ...


Everything that the "conspiracy theorists " have warned us about is coming to fruition . The FEMA camps, forced vaccinations , one global currency. I'm much more frightened of what additional civil liberties we are about to lose than any virus &#129440;.

The media have been comparing COVID19 to Pearl Harbor and 9-11 which were BOTH falseflag events. There is a greater agenda at play here. Only 18 people have died from Coronavirus in San Diego where I live as of today April 5th 2020. They say this coming week will be a blood bath for deaths(according to the news) We'll see if that's accurate or just more fear talk by next week.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> So which is it: do you want them to keep eating them but safely, or stop eating them altogether? It's a _really_ simple question which you are going to great lengths to not answer.


I'm not going through great lengths to not answer, just as you are "not going through great lengths to *divert your misreading of my reply that you quoted*".

if you weren't, you'd understand that I was not even talking about that, but rather the fact that I disagree with Kurt's theory of this being the inevitable and that if not bats, it'll be something else.

It doesn't really matter whether they eat safely or stop eating altogether--either would have prevented this (if I were to nod to Kurt's theory) round of nature's wrath.

golly and you have the nerve to call me a dim bulb. oh boy...


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I'm not going through great lengths to not answer, just as you are "not going through great lengths to *divert your misreading of my reply that you quoted*".
> 
> if you weren't, you'd understand that I was not even talking about that, but rather the fact that I disagree with Kurt's theory of this being the inevitable and that if not bats, it'll be something else.
> 
> ...


I'm not misreading anything. His suggestion was that when overpopulation reaches a certain point, widespread, rapid transmission of highly contagious diseases becomes practically inevitable. That he chose to phrase the issue in anthropomorphic "Mother Nature" talk is besides the point: extreme overpopulation makes this sort of thing extremely likely, and eventually almost inevitable. That is why your cliche suggestion that "preventative measures and education" is what is needed is so vacuous, and why you would rather not say with any specificity what that would mean in concrete terms as a solution -- because it's obvious that neither stopping it altogether nor making it safe is going to happen.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I'm not misreading anything. His suggestion was that when overpopulation reaches a certain point, widespread, rapid transmission of highly contagious diseases becomes practically inevitable. That he chose to phrase the issue in anthropomorphic "Mother Nature" talk is besides the point: extreme overpopulation makes this sort of thing extremely likely, and eventually almost inevitable. That is why your cliche suggestion that "preventative measures and education" is what is needed is so vacuous, and why you would rather not say with any specificity what that would mean in concrete terms as a solution -- because it's obvious that neither stopping it altogether nor making it safe is going to happen.


It's not "cliche" because the whole reason this spread is because people chose to eat bats.

if they were educated they would understand that bats (as it's been known prior to corvid 19) are dangerous to touch much less eat.

which brings me back to my previous questions, and the lead to the fact that if bats were left alone, this would not have happened as bats do no make it habit to venture out of their habitat, and so forth.

try again.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> It's not "cliche" because the whole reason this spread is because people chose to eat bats.
> 
> if they were educated they would understand that bats (as it's been known prior to corvid 19) are dangerous to touch much less eat.
> 
> ...


People are not going to leave bats alone.

You think it's possible to "educate" people in China (and elsewhere around the world) who are -- let's face it -- very often completely illiterate and ignorant about even the most basic scientific principles, and frequently _extremely_ superstitious, and persuade them that time-honored culinary habits that people in their societies and cultures have followed for countless generations are actually _unsafe_ and they have to change their practices? Good luck on that. Try getting _Americans_ to change _their_ diets. That's not working very well so far, despite a (supposedly) reasonably educated public being exposed to a pretty concerted public information campaign that's been going on for a couple of decades now. This is an arena in which "persuasion" is impotent.

Here's what _might_ work: the Chinese (or other authoritarian) government simply arresting and imprisoning people who are found to be selling or consuming bats. Shooting them immediately would be even more effective. Drastic behavior change did take place immediately following the Tiananmen Square episode. But I would hesitate to characterize either of those policies as "education". I guess they _could_ be fairly described as a "preventative measures", albeit ones employing simple brute force.

But, the main point was that overpopulation reached "crisis stage" quite a while ago, and critically accelerates the spread of contagions; I don't see how anyone could have any reasonable doubts about this.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> People are not going to leave bats alone.
> 
> You think it's possible to "educate" people in China (and elsewhere around the world) who are -- let's face it -- very often completely illiterate and ignorant about even the most basic scientific principles, and frequently _extremely_ superstitious, and persuade them that time-honored culinary habits that people in their societies and cultures have followed for countless generations are actually _unsafe_ and they have to change their practices? Good luck on that. Try getting _Americans_ to change _their_ diets. That's not working very well so far, despite a (supposedly) reasonably educated public being exposed to a pretty concerted public information campaign that's been going on for a couple of decades now. This is an arena in which "persuasion" is impotent.
> 
> ...


narrow minded and one sided,

k, I can see there is no getting around your thick head with phrases like:

------
"You think it's possible to "educate" people in China (and elsewhere around the world) who are -- let's face it -- very often _completely illiterate and ignorant about even the most basic scientific principles_, and frequently _extremely_ superstitious, and persuade them that time-honored culinary habits that people in their societies and cultures have followed for countless generations are actually _unsafe_ and they have to change their practices? Good luck on that. Try getting _Americans_ to change _their_ diets."
------

you think you're better but really you're no better then the people you put down, maybe even less so because you've had the opportunity and access to resources they don't, and yet you sound no more less ignorant then the very same people you so easily put down.

if everyone thought like you, some of the things that exist today would not. do people adopt asap? no. people are slow to change habits. but it's not impossible and to write it off as such essentially speaks volume of you as a person but is not indicative of the population as a whole (luckily).


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> you think you're better but really you're no better then the people you put down, maybe even less so because you've had the opportunity and access to resources they don't, and yet you sound no more less ignorant then the very same people you so easily put down.


I never said we were _better_; in fact, I quite expressly said that you'd have no greater luck with Americans. "Illiterate", "ignorant about scientific principles" and "superstitious" are simply descriptive terms, not necessarily evaluative ones, and while most Americans have at least some basic literacy, I would say that the other two apply to Americans about as much as they do around the rest of the world.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I never said we were _better_; in fact, I quite expressly said that you'd have no greater luck with Americans. "Illiterate", "ignorant about scientific principles" and "superstitious" are simply descriptive terms, not necessarily evaluative ones, and while most Americans have at least some basic literacy, I would say that the other two apply to Americans about as much as they do around the rest of the world.


So where would you see Americans eating bats? Comparing Americans needing to diet and another population needing to stop eating bats is not the same thing and it's not even country so much as region.

You implied as such by stating, that it is not "possible"..... but ok, are you a bat eater then? Or a fat American?


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> So where would you see Americans eating bats? Comparing Americans needing to diet and another population needing to stop eating bats is not the same thing and it's not even country so much as region.
> 
> You implied as such by stating, that it is not "possible"..... but ok, are you a bat eater then? Or a fat American?


Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. Americans do lots of terribly unsafe and crazy things, and a COVID-19 like virus could have came from anywhere. It just happened to be Chinese wet markets this time. Various other strains of Corona-Viruses originated in the Middle East, Mexico, Spain, etc. etc.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. Americans do lots of terribly unsafe and crazy things, and a COVID-19 like virus could have came from anywhere. It just happened to be Chinese wet markets this time. Various other strains of Corona-Viruses originated in the Middle East, Mexico, Spain, etc. etc.


Ok, so tell me what is terribly unsafe and crazy thing American do? Eat bats?

yes, I never said it was chinese related only, other cultures have as well.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> So where would you see Americans eating bats? Comparing Americans needing to diet and another population needing to stop eating bats is not the same thing and it's not even country so much as region.
> 
> You implied as such by stating, that it is not "possible"..... but ok, are you a bat eater then? Or a fat American?


Americans are well-known to eat squirrel, as you know, and that's a mammal that's only a couple of half-steps away from a bat. I don't think it's really necessary to enumerate the extraordinary variety of things people have, at one time or another, chosen to put in their mouths, deep-fried or otherwise.

My point is that the power of social and cultural tradition is a towering obstacle to "re-education" efforts of the sort you're suggesting. So we're back to the question I posed earlier: if you think you're going to talk to people who have eaten bat meat themselves many times without apparent incident -- and have seen their friends and family do the same, and know that in their culture people have been doing the same thing for generations -- and convince them that it's actually extremely dangerous and they should stop, _many of them are not going to buy it_. Similarly with the American diet; no matter how many times people are told about how unhealthy their food is, and how and why they should try to eat more intelligently, it has had little to no effect. Public information campaigns about healthy diets have been beating this drum for several decades now, and the problem is actually getting worse -- obesity, childhood diabetes, etc., are on the rise. I wish it were otherwise, but it ain't. People _in general_ are not persuaded by rational arguments and evidence -- or at least not enough to get them to change what they've been doing for a long time, and _really like doing_. Anyone who has tried to quit smoking, or tried to convince a smoker to stop, has experienced this personally.

I'm afraid I have far, _far_ less confidence than you do in the efficacy of evidence, reason, and rational persuasion in getting people to change their thoughts and behaviors, _even when it's demonstrably for their own good_, much less when it's for others. It _will_ work with _some_ people, but it will still fall on completely deaf ears for many, and this "contagion problem" won't go away unless the practice _completely_ stops. Hence my admittedly dark suggestion above that what _would_ work very effectively would be fear -- even _terror_. The threat of imprisonment or immediate violence would get people's undivided attention and give them an incentive that "education" doesn't. If they can't see that compliance is in their long-run self-interest, then it can be made to be in their immediate self-interest.

I will note that sometimes some people do change their diets; my own diet is nothing like it was 10 years ago. But I don't attribute that to having been persuaded by convincing arguments and information campaigns. The information is there; getting people to care about it is something different, and is about motivation.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I'm afraid I have far, _far_ less confidence than you do in the efficacy of evidence, reason, and rational persuasion in getting people to change their thoughts and behaviors, _even when it's demonstrably for their own good_, much less when it's for others. It _will_ work with _some_ people, but it will still fall on completely deaf ears for many, and this "contagion problem" won't go away unless the practice _completely_ stops. Hence my admittedly dark suggestion above that what _would_ work very effectively would be fear -- even _terror_. The threat of imprisonment or immediate violence would get people's undivided attention and give them an incentive that "education" doesn't. If they can't see that compliance is in their long-run self-interest, then it can be made to be in their immediate self-interest.


THIS IS TRUTH.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> THIS IS TRUTH.
> 
> View attachment 443385


The only wrinkle I would add to this is that the "stupid" person is not necessarily someone who _can't_ understand -- it's very often someone who simply _doesn't want to understand_. Put only a bit differently, it's not always an intellectual or cognitive limitation; it's a motivational or emotional one. Reasons, arguments, evidence are all utterly impotent in influencing someone who _doesn't want to hear it_.

There's an old saying (variously attributed, although I thought it was from Bentham) to the effect that "it's very difficult to get a man to accept the truth of a proposition when his salary depends on _not_ accepting that proposition." You might call that the "financially motivated" version of the phenomenon, but there are other possible, and equally inflexible, motivations.


----------



## UberPuppetGirl (Jul 6, 2019)

Thanks!
❤📍


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

"I don't take responsibility at all," said President Donald Trump in the Rose Garden on March 13. Those words will probably end up as the epitaph of his presidency, the single sentence that sums it all up.

Trump now fancies himself a "wartime president." How is his war going? By the end of March, the coronavirus had killed more Americans than the 9/11 attacks. By the first weekend in April, the virus had killed more Americans than any single battle of the Civil War. By Easter, it may have killed more Americans than the Korean War. On the present trajectory, it will kill, by late April, more Americans than Vietnam. Having earlier promised that casualties could be held near zero, Trump now claims he will have done a "very good job" if the toll is held below 200,000 dead.

The United States is on trajectory to suffer more sickness, more dying, and more economic harm from this virus than any other comparably developed country. That the pandemic occurred is not Trump's fault. The utter unpreparedness of the United States for a pandemic is Trump's fault."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/
See y'all in NOVEMBER, although neither of your choices are good this year. The Blowhard Tyrant or the Senile Moderate. Choose Wisely.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> "I don't take responsibility at all," said President Donald Trump in the Rose Garden on March 13. Those words will probably end up as the epitaph of his presidency, the single sentence that sums it all up.
> 
> Trump now fancies himself a "wartime president." How is his war going? By the end of March, the coronavirus had killed more Americans than the 9/11 attacks. By the first weekend in April, the virus had killed more Americans than any single battle of the Civil War. By Easter, it may have killed more Americans than the Korean War. On the present trajectory, it will kill, by late April, more Americans than Vietnam. Having earlier promised that casualties could be held near zero, Trump now claims he will have done a "very good job" if the toll is held below 200,000 dead.
> 
> ...


Planet Earth was unprepared for the Wuhan virus. China lied, people died.
Here, listen to an expert...on 21 Jan
"Nothing to worry about"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246156119938080776
Two days later, President Trump evacuated all Wuhan State Department personnel.

Eight days after that, he cut off travel to and from China.

Unprepared...my ass.

Place credit where credit is due.
China (and the WHO)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/health/china-virus-who-emergency.html


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

It's probably irrelevant, since we're now living in what appears to be a world in which facts no longer matter, but . . .

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/int...isis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a
Of course, until Limbaugh or Hannity or Alex Jones says it, it's not true.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> It's probably irrelevant, since we're now living in what appears to be a world in which facts no longer matter, but . . .
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/int...isis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a
> Of course, until Limbaugh or Hannity or Alex Jones says it, it's not true.


Here's some facts... Democrats were telling everyone "there's no problem" until the middle of March.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243539798008172551
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03...stricted-travel-to-china-here-are-5-examples/


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Planet Earth was unprepared for [Covid-19]. China lied, people died.
> [...]
> President Trump evacuated all Wuhan State Department personnel.
> Eight days after that, he cut off travel to and from China.
> Unprepared...my ass.


Nobody is saying the USA did NOTHING. But they only did 1/20th of what they should have done.
Regardless of China's lies (AND CHINA WILL ALWAYS LIE! ) The United States has one of the most comprehensive Foreign Intelligence Networks on the planet. They saw past these lies, and woefully failed to prepare their own state (because they wanted to protect the economy....see how that worked out.)

If you think 100% culpability lies in China and 0% in the USA, you are as brainwashed by the state, as you (likely) think the Chinese citizens are.

The Atlantic article does an excellent job of laying out all the points of failure from December 2019 until Easter. It's a laundry list.

Yes, the Chinese were awful in how they manipulated the WHO, and under-reported their own situation, but by the end of January, the extent of China's shutdown measures were a big red flag (pun intended) as to how bad this could get. THE USA did very, very little in terms of its own self preparedness.  That is on nobody except the UNITED STATES.

In all fairness, most other countries failed significantly too. Just not quite as spectacularly as the worlds most powerful country.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Here's some facts... Democrats were telling everyone "there's no problem" until the middle of March.


Get it through your thick skull that the DEMOCRATS are not in Charge. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION is, your glorious leader reminds the country at every turn, of this one, simple, fact. The one fact he gets right.

Thus the blame and the responsibility lies mainly with the current administration.
Remember the old phrase, "THE BUCK STOPS HERE."
Now more than ever.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

The Atlantic and David Frum?

Might as well be listening to Nancy Pelosi.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Nobody is saying the USA did NOTHING. But they only did 1/20th of what they should have done.
> Regardless of China's lies (AND CHINA WILL ALWAYS LIE! ) The United States has one of the most comprehensive Foreign Intelligence Networks on the planet. They saw past these lies, and woefully failed to prepare their own state (because they wanted to protect the economy....see how that worked out.)
> 
> If you think 100% culpability lies in China and 0% in the USA, you are as brainwashed by the state, as you (likely) think the Chinese citizens are.
> ...


If the Democrats are in the White House, everything is their fault.
If the Republicans are in the White House, everything is still the Democrats' fault.

"Heads I win, tails you lose."
Even the dumbest child can see what that means, yet a sizeable percentage of "adults" appear to have insurmountable difficulty with the concept.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> It's probably irrelevant, since we're now living in what appears to be a world in which facts no longer matter, but . . .
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/int...isis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a
> Of course, until Limbaugh or Hannity or Alex Jones says it, it's not true.


No, the "intelligence report" did not happen.
https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morr...-no-didnt-warn-white-house-covid-19-november/


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> No, the "intelligence report" did not happen.
> https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morr...-no-didnt-warn-white-house-covid-19-november/


That's negligence then. What else is the USA tax dollars paying the CIA for?


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> This is part of the reason why the whole 'If only the Chinese stopped eating bats and other unsafe animals' argument is a fallacy. When the number of people on Earth starts bumping up against 10 Billion, Mother Nature will continue to escalate her response to culling the culture (be it deer in the north, or bacteria in a petri dish). When the population gets too high, everyone dies, or nearly everyone, so the cycle can start again.


Been ~300 million Americans for at least 15 years now when I started keeping track.

I was in middle school, they told me America's population would've topped 400 million by now(wrong)

Instead the Asian countries are breeding enough life into existence to make 3 Earth's so that they can keep a massive young labor pool for corporate and political gain.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> No, the "intelligence report" did not happen.
> https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morr...-no-didnt-warn-white-house-covid-19-november/


Interestingly, the source cited to show that it "did not happen", says that _it did happen_:

[begin quote, emphasis added]

Anonymous sources also told CNN that other intelligence agencies were tracking the information, but that the date of their first report wasn't "clear." However, in the CNN report, they note that the information *didn't make it into the presidential daily briefing for weeks*:



> US spy agencies were tracking the rise of the novel coronavirus *as early as November*, *weeks before that information was included in President Donald Trump's daily intelligence briefing*, a former US military official told CNN.
> While the exact date of the first report remains unclear, sources told CNN that intelligence gathered in November and in the weeks following offered multiple early warnings about the potential severity of the pandemic now surging in the US.


[end quote]

So, the citation allegedly showing that never happened, actually only shows that _it did happen after a delay of several weeks_.

It's an interesting fact that sometimes people cite sources in the mistaken belief that the source supports their "argument", although they apparently either haven't actually read the source they're citing, or they are not capable of understanding the source they're citing.

Of course, we all know that President Manchurian doesn't -- or more likely _can't_ -- read the PDB, so why should his worshippers read anything or understand anything they do read?


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Been ~300 million Americans for at least 15 years now when I started keeping track.
> 
> I was in middle school, they told me America's population would've topped 400 million by now(wrong)
> 
> Instead the Asian countries are breeding enough life into existence to make 3 Earth's so that they can keep a massive young labor pool for corporate and political gain.


Or................... human nature is to reproduce


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Reproduction rates in industrialized countries is way down


----------



## Jim Swindon (Mar 2, 2020)

1.5xorbust said:


> Don't let a good crisis go to waste.


That's what it's all about....tightening the noose.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> Reproduction rates in industrialized countries is way down


What is the cost of having a baby in the USA? I mean if you don't have your job covering your health insurance? What is the Co-Pay for birth in a hospital?
There is barely any maternity leave for women who are working a full time job, and that is most of the country.
There are serious socioeconomic reasons why birth rates (per woman) in the USA (and other first-world nations, as well) are much lower than they were in the 1970s, or 1950s.


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

It's not just the cost, which is substantial, but societal changes by generations have led millennials to not want a lot of kids. Millennials are very self centered or into themselves. No desire to raise children.


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> Reproduction rates in industrialized countries is way down


Cause they ain't doin it right .

To have a child takes some sacrifice when raised by 2 individuals , some prefer not to sacrifice their time or effort , to each his or her own


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Ubertool said:


> Cause they ain't doin it right .
> 
> To have a child takes some sacrifice when raised by 2 individuals , some prefer not to sacrifice their time or effort , to each his or her own


LOL well anal sex has made a dramatic normalization in society as well, BUT Desire and of course diet are the primary factors.


----------



## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

One thing that I learned during my 2 years stint as the intelligence officer for our armored regiment was that some of the incoming intelligence was not actionable, or for that matter, even true.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> What is the cost of having a baby in the USA? I mean if you don't have your job covering your health insurance? What is the Co-Pay for birth in a hospital?
> There is barely any maternity leave for women who are working a full time job, and that is most of the country.
> There are serious socioeconomic reasons why birth rates (per woman) in the USA (and other first-world nations, as well) are much lower than they were in the 1970s, or 1950s.


Medicaid covers child births in America.... then WIC, and if your poor EBT also. The child's and mothers medical care after birth is covered too on the taxpayers dime.

Now stop assuming, you just showed you dont know the ins and outs of the American health system.



Ubertool said:


> Or................... human nature is to reproduce


Look here Walter Fry, it's one thing to reproduce it's another to reproduce beyond the Earth's resources.

Earth only has the capacity for ~10 billion people. We are a little under 7.5 billion now with 4.5 billion being Asian.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Now stop assuming, you just showed you dont know the ins and outs of the American health system.


I am happy to have the conversation. We are always learning, if we keep our ears and minds open.
(You will note that my comment about the cost to give birth in the USA, was a question, not a statement...)


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I am happy to have the conversation. We are always learning, if we keep our ears and minds open.
> (You will note that my comment about the cost to give birth in the USA, was a question, not a statement...)


He's wrong, however. Medicaid doesn't _automatically_ cover childbirth; it only covers childbirth if you are below a certain income level, and many working class and lower income people don't qualify. Those people are supposed to have purchased some subsidized health care plan, but they may not have done so.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Medicaid covers child births in America.... then WIC, and if your poor EBT also. The child's and mothers medical care after birth is covered too on the taxpayers dime.
> 
> Now stop assuming, you just showed you dont know the ins and outs of the American health system.
> 
> ...


Sorry Kurt but there is propaganda at the moment that American hospitals are overwhelmed, when in fact they are not.

The notion that America is another Italy or worse is also propaganda the numbers and percentages dont support that claim.


----------



## The Christian driver (Apr 25, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day hospitals in Toronto and the surrounding area initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks, uncomfortably and not used to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed by the minute. It was utter chaos. It was difficult to even get into the hospital while my wife was in labour; forms upon forms, hastily-assembled and administered by awkward hospital bureaucrats, just to get through the front door. Even when inside and in the labour ward, it was worrisome that if I left to go home and get anything during her 20+ hours in labour that I would not be allowed back into the building due to unclear Quarantine measures that were changing by the minute. We were fortunate that SARS blew itself out by the Summer of 2003, and even if cities like Hong Kong and Toronto faced a trying financial recovery, it was not quite the global story for long, the stage was set for a bigger, badder, sequel.
> ...


"While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Don't delay your SALVATION.. Today if you hear his voice, don't harden your heart.. today is the day of SALVATION. What must we do to be saved and escape eternal judgment and wrath? Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

The Christian driver said:


> "While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Don't delay your SALVATION.. Today if you hear his voice, don't harden your heart.. today is the day of SALVATION. What must we do to be saved and escape eternal judgment and wrath? Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.


Please, save your mythological nonsense for the appropriate thread. We are talking facts not faith.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> Interestingly, the source cited to show that it "did not happen", says that _it did happen_:
> 
> [begin quote, emphasis added]
> 
> ...


Meet "Anonymous sources"...


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic


WHO-
No reason to worry!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/health/china-virus-who-emergency.html


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> WHO-
> No reason to worry!
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/health/china-virus-who-emergency.html


Alas. It is all politics. 
The virus doesn't give a shit about politics, it will spread if we let it.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Alas. It is all politics.
> The virus doesn't give a shit about politics, it will spread if we let it.


Partially, it is about science taking the back seat to politics. Chinas' propaganda.

WHO allowed it to spread.
How many people, globally were killed because they acted as Chinas' pimp?


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> How many people, globally were killed because [W.H.O.] acted as Chinas' pimp?


Agreed. But there is no way to see in another, alternative universe, whether or not the West would have listened.
I'm not absolving China, as they are an awful country in terms of their CCP politics.
But I'm also saying that the Western World is also ripe to ignore things China and the W.H.O. says.

We will never know.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Agreed. But there is no way to see in another, alternative universe, whether or not the West would have listened.
> I'm not absolving China, as they are an awful country in terms of their CCP politics.
> But I'm also saying that the Western World is also ripe to ignore things China and the W.H.O. says.
> 
> We will never know.


No, we will not.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Blaming Trump now is both nonproductive and divisive.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Blaming Trump now is both nonproductive and divisive.


Oh, the sweet, sweet irony.
Trump is the most devisive president in the history of the USA, it's in his DNA.
At least most of the TRUMP naysayers call him out on his policies.
Trump tends to call people out on his personal fantasies and delusions.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Oh, the sweet, sweet irony.
> Trump is the most devisive president in the history of the USA, it's in his DNA.
> At least most of the TRUMP naysayers call him out on his policies.
> Trump tends to call people out on his personal fantasies and delusions.


Whatever, dude.
I think your article was pretty good.
My brothers' birthday is 31 March.

Commentary devolved into the normal "orange man bad" bullshit.

Good luck.


----------



## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

kcdrvr15 said:


> Nice post, you touched all the bases and pulled on all the emo strings... and bashed Americans multiple times, go stuff yourself and your own. You don't know crap about what is happening any more than anyone else.
> 
> and ignore


No sorry, he nailed it. Americans deserve to be bashed. Look at yourselves! Worst corona response in the world whilst being the richest country. A despicable orange clown leading you. Streets flooded with pointless guns resulting in nonstop mass shootings and countless innocent deaths and on and on and on. Americans are a complete disaster and an absolute disgrace to humanity. Canada should build a wall to keep you out.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

See?











UberAdrian said:


> No sorry, he nailed it. Americans deserve to be bashed. Look at yourselves! Worst corona response in the world whilst being the richest country. A despicable orange clown leading you. Streets flooded with pointless guns resulting in nonstop mass shootings and countless innocent deaths and on and on and on. Americans are a complete disaster and an absolute disgrace to humanity. Canada should build a wall to keep you out.


Your PM (Fideau) will SAVE you!


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Meet "Anonymous sources"...
> View attachment 446270


How curious that, in response to an allegation that its reading comprehension abilities are clearly rather limited, the primate responds, not with an attempt at a substantive defense, but only a self-portrait.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> How curious that, in response to an allegation that its reading comprehension abilities are clearly rather limited, the primate responds, not with an attempt at a substantive defense, but only a self-portrait.


Talk To Your Doctor.
Could have Stage 4 TDS.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248438822322483206


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Good news:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-san-francisco-london-breed/609808/


----------



## Boston Bill (Jul 13, 2019)

Uberchampion said:


> That's how the Donald ended up in power during Americas worst crisis ever..
> 
> 
> Geez.. what's wrong with you and some of your fellow Americans. Why do you think Canada fantasizes about Americas demise? What happened to you as a child to skew your thought process so drastically?
> ...


I will never miss Obama. I wish he would move to Holland or somewhere



Karl Marx said:


> I have never seen you on UP forum and have no idea what your intentions are but we are a tight collective of drivers and past drivers who are for the most part very science literate and vet to the best of our abilities. My 31 years in science and medical publishing along with my colleagues here called this as early as mid January. If you have anything that is science based feel free to contribute but to this point the epidemiology is very clear and precise, this is an unprecedented pandemic. If you really want to delve into the complexity please note how complicated this will be with the _*most recent accounting as of yesterday morning of 2,434 full #SARSCoV2 genomes now @GISAID, sorting as 3 clades plus "others." •S clade 565 genomes •G clade 1,064 •V clade 230 •Other clades 575 North America is overwhelmingly S clade. Europe & nor West Africa are G clade. There's clear geographical COVID19 distribution.*_


I have no idea what this says.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Boston Bill said:


> I will never miss Obama. I wish he would move to Holland or somewhere


Then you are fine with Trump? (If so, what a strange world we live in...)


----------



## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/609916/


----------



## PaysTheLightBill (Mar 18, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> Smaller Boxes are coming.
> 
> WORLD WIDE.
> 
> ...


American Leftist media have already thrown in with the Chinese Communist Party.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Uberchampion said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/609916/


Fauci, 29 February...

"No reason to change lifestyle"

https://www.today.com/video/dr-fauc...s-no-need-to-change-lifestyle-yet-79684677616


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

UberAdrian said:


> No sorry, he nailed it. Americans deserve to be bashed. Look at yourselves! Worst corona response in the world whilst being the richest country. A despicable orange clown leading you. Streets flooded with pointless guns resulting in nonstop mass shootings and countless innocent deaths and on and on and on. Americans are a complete disaster and an absolute disgrace to humanity. Canada should build a wall to keep you out.


Guns don't kill people , evil people kill people . Canada is not immune from evil people . Did a girl from the USA hurt you in the past ? It's alright son , eventually you'll find someone girl/ guy , Whatever you decide I'm in favor of you finding someone to help you chill out


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

https://eand.co/donald-trump-american-idiot-1571f3606ea4


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> https://eand.co/donald-trump-american-idiot-1571f3606ea4


----------



## Boston Bill (Jul 13, 2019)

UberAdrian said:


> No sorry, he nailed it. Americans deserve to be bashed. Look at yourselves! Worst corona response in the world whilst being the richest country. A despicable orange clown leading you. Streets flooded with pointless guns resulting in nonstop mass shootings and countless innocent deaths and on and on and on. Americans are a complete disaster and an absolute disgrace to humanity. Canada should build a wall to keep you out.


If upheld, the 1st and 2nd amrrndments will keep us free.


----------



## 49matrix (Feb 3, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day where hospitals in Toronto, and the surrounding area, initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks. You could see they did so uncomfortably, unused to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed rapidly. It was utter chaos.
> ...


Terrifically brilliant article! Once this Angel of Death has passed over the world that we knew will be never be the one we previously enjoyed. Horrendously bad leadership, greed and a deep lack of understanding will be the root causes, not COVID-19.


----------



## Ubend R.S. (Jul 7, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 440748
> 
> 
> Today was my son's birthday. He was born in a hospital just outside the City of Toronto on March 31, 2003. This was the first day where hospitals in Toronto, and the surrounding area, initiated isolation and tracing protocols for a deadly corona virus that caused acute respiratory distress: SARS. Doctors and nurses wore N95 masks. You could see they did so uncomfortably, unused to this level of protection in open parts of the hospital. Patients and visitors wore disposable surgical masks. Protocol and procedure changed rapidly. It was utter chaos.
> ...


God that was refreshing. A good read sir!


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

*"For decades, Americans have been conditioned to think of America as not just any country. Our popular histories and media tell us a story of "American exceptionalism" - the notion that we are unique among, maybe even superior to, every other nation on the planet, the world's rightful hegemon and steward [...] Today, it is nearly impossible to maintain. Faced with perhaps the most significant global crisis since the end of the Cold War, America has proven itself to be depressingly ordinary, even substandard.

This is especially obvious to foreign observers."*

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...avirus-covid-19-trump-american-exceptionalism


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> *"For decades, Americans have been conditioned to think of America as not just any country. Our popular histories and media tell us a story of "American exceptionalism" - the notion that we are unique among, maybe even superior to, every other nation on the planet, the world's rightful hegemon and steward [...] Today, it is nearly impossible to maintain. Faced with perhaps the most significant global crisis since the end of the Cold War, America has proven itself to be depressingly ordinary, even substandard."*
> 
> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...avirus-covid-19-trump-american-exceptionalism


Vox is crap.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Vox is crap.


As a news website that was designed to take a big step back and try to make sense of the firehose of media, it's one of the better ones. Yes it has a Liberal bias, but it is more centred than the nuttier side of the right leaning media.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> As a news website that was designed to take a big step back and try to make sense of the firehose of media, it's one of the better ones. Yes it has a Liberal bias, but it is more centred than the nuttier side of the right leaning media.


Let's agree to disagree.


----------



## Ubend R.S. (Jul 7, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> *"For decades, Americans have been conditioned to think of America as not just any country. Our popular histories and media tell us a story of "American exceptionalism" - the notion that we are unique among, maybe even superior to, every other nation on the planet, the world's rightful hegemon and steward [...] Today, it is nearly impossible to maintain. Faced with perhaps the most significant global crisis since the end of the Cold War, America has proven itself to be depressingly ordinary, even substandard.
> 
> This is especially obvious to foreign observers."*
> 
> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...avirus-covid-19-trump-american-exceptionalism


It was too long winded opting out of cookies to read. Sounded interesting though.


----------



## Thomas511 (Mar 26, 2019)

Uberchampion said:


> That's how the Donald ended up in power during Americas worst crisis ever..
> 
> 
> Geez.. what's wrong with you and some of your fellow Americans. Why do you think Canada fantasizes about Americas demise? What happened to you as a child to skew your thought process so drastically?
> ...


Why?


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

https://eand.co/whats-the-price-of-living-in-america-your-life-7f2e6b7b6c05
"_*The current total of Coronavirus deaths in America is officially about 110,000. *That underestimates the true count of excess deaths which the virus results in, which is probably closer to 150,000. The projections estimated around 200,000 deaths by the end of June. America's on track to easily hit and exceed that.

What the? This is a staggering, surreal, nightmarish death toll. The highest in the world.

*Americans seem to have largely tuned all this out. *Why? Well, the fact is that the majority of COVID deaths are disproportionately poor people and minorities, or poor minorities. How much do those lives really matter? Then there are all the other problems - a lunatic in charge of the country, his enablers calling for people to be shot in the street in the pages of the New York Times, nobody much able to make ends meet, and so forth."_


----------



## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

I think there’s so much change taking place that people aren’t comfortable with that they’re saying **** I’m going to do what I want to do.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> https://eand.co/whats-the-price-of-living-in-america-your-life-7f2e6b7b6c05
> "_*The current total of Coronavirus deaths in America is officially about 110,000. *That underestimates the true count of excess deaths which the virus results in, which is probably closer to 150,000. The projections estimated around 200,000 deaths by the end of June. America's on track to easily hit and exceed that.
> 
> What the? This is a staggering, surreal, nightmarish death toll. The highest in the world.
> ...


What a crock.
This author is a lunatic.


----------



## Thomas511 (Mar 26, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> https://eand.co/whats-the-price-of-living-in-america-your-life-7f2e6b7b6c05
> "_*The current total of Coronavirus deaths in America is officially about 110,000. *That underestimates the true count of excess deaths which the virus results in, which is probably closer to 150,000. The projections estimated around 200,000 deaths by the end of June. America's on track to easily hit and exceed that.
> 
> What the? This is a staggering, surreal, nightmarish death toll. The highest in the world.
> ...


Yea well I guess we should let everyone form their own little country like seattle. Biden is brain dead so I guess u will like him. If the democrats win it will be even worse.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Thomas511 said:


> Yea well I guess we should let everyone form their own little country like seattle. Biden is brain dead so I guess u will like him. If the democrats win it will be even worse.


Nope. I don't like Biden one bit.
Your choices in November are stark....a further decay into chaotic dismantling of national institutions, and capital-cronyism (with a side of Authoritarianism), or sleepy confused former presidential side-kick that comes across like your out-of-touch uncle, and a Democratic Party that seems to want to race to the bottom faster than the sycophantic GOP.


----------



## Thomas511 (Mar 26, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Nope. I don't like Biden one bit.
> Your choices in November are stark....


I agree with you on that, plus Uber is shot when do 
U think it will come back if it does?


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Thomas511 said:


> I agree with you on that, plus Uber is shot when do
> U think it will come back if it does?


That depends on California to a large degree. If the gig-economy business model (non-employees) collapses, that will probably be the end.
In my market (Toronto Canada), a lot of people prefer the private car to public transit. And with a long shutdown of hubs and no driver onboarding, along with cheap fuel, for those still driving there are some pennies to be made if they choose to take the risk.

I'm also a cynical person, that in 2 years, we will have forgotten all the danger and shut-down pain from COVID-19, and things will go back to 'normal' in one form or another, if the business model survives the current stress.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Fun times ahead: https://eand.co/america-gave-up-on-coronavirus-now-the-worst-case-scenarios-coming-true-630dc65f9dd5


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Fun times ahead: https://eand.co/america-gave-up-on-coronavirus-now-the-worst-case-scenarios-coming-true-630dc65f9dd5


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...y-thanks-faulty-models-junk-science-dr-fauci/


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

https://www.fastcompany.com/9051690...y-home-if-you-can-summed-up-in-one-grim-chart


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Another example of how the USA has failed in containing cases compared to the rest of the world. I think it is fair to say that the European Union doesn't have the data integrity issues that China and Russia and Brazil have. So have a look at how the USA failed to lower cases compared to Europe.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

oh, Trump, if he could read would not like that graph. FAKE GRAPH!


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Not a good look, America. Not a good look.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

...and the deniers will post the daily deaths not even thinking about what happens to cases in a few weeks or months. Hospitalization followed by death in some cases. 

Already NY and surrounds taking action. Pretty soon, back to full SAH.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

https://theweek.com/articles/921833/world-putting-america-quarantine


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm just going to leave this here. Currently USA is experiencing greater cases per day then when they were at the (supposed) peak back at the End of March/Beginning of April.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Happy Independence Day 🇺🇸 
STAY SAFE.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

This Article is looking pretty PRESCIENT, nearly 4 months after I wrote it.
I'm petty enough to say, I TOLD YOU SO.

Currently AMERICAN citizens can only travel to 25 countries without a prior-VISA.
This is a massive downgrade of one of the most powerful international passports of the last 100 years.
This is a massive downgrade of the AMERICAN leadership of the world.
This is not 100% the fault of the Current President Donald Trump, but he cannot escape a significant portion of responsiblity for this lack of influence/respect/creditibity of one of the truly GREAT societies of the World. It has fallen markedly under his leadership. As he would say, "SAD."

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundaye...world-the-global-south-never-had-it-1.5648022
_"Americans used to have one of the most prized passports in the world, considered a golden ticket to wealth, travel and opportunity.

With an American passport in your bag, you could arrive at the doors of 185 countries and get visa-free entry. No big questions - just business or pleasure?

But with the onset of COVID-19, Americans are limited to just 28 countries, mostly in the Caribbean and Eastern Europe. That number drops if you exclude countries that require a two-week quarantine, such as the the United Kingdom or South Korea.

On July 18, the European Union renewed its recommendation that U.S. residents be banned from entry to any member-states. The same day, Canada confirmed the U.S. border would remain closed to non-essential travel for another month.

More than 3.5 million U.S. residents have caught COVID-19 since the start of the pandemic, and by mid-July, the disease killed more than 138,000 people, according to the New York Times."_


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

It's been 6 MONTHS since I wrote this post. 200,000 additional Americans have died. The debate rages on about whether or not they died WITH Covid-19, or OF Covid-19, but this misses the point that there is another layer of unreported COVID-19 deaths that are captured in excess death rate, and the mental and addiction stresses of the lock-downs and upheaval of the economy and society. 

I'm sad to have been correct on this. 
I'm angry that one of the greatest Nations on Earth failed to come together to fight this in a science-based manner.
I'm resigned to the fact that nothing will change until Next January. And maybe not even then...


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> It's been 6 MONTHS since I wrote this post. 200,000 additional Americans have died. The debate rages on about whether or not they died WITH Covid-19, or OF Covid-19, but this misses the point that there is another layer of unreported COVID-19 deaths that are captured in excess death rate, and the mental and addiction stresses of the lock-downs and upheaval of the economy and society.
> 
> I'm sad to have been correct on this.
> I'm angry that one of the greatest Nations on Earth failed to come together to fight this in a science-based manner.
> I'm resigned to the fact that nothing will change until Next January. And maybe not even then...


Kurt what you is saying is true but I think somewhat out of context. Right now the entire world is under restrictions and advised not to travel.

Travel is gonna be extremely impeded until a tested and proven vaccine is released.

As a country the last thing on everyone's mind has been international travel.

USA is reshuffling to work from home and work sites as close to a bubble as possible.

This actually hurts other countries much worse than America. All of the countries that depended on tourism will be utterly bankrupt before normalcy returns.

America's former business destinations may never return simply because after most likely a decade of remote dealings it will be the new standard and in person the oddity.

Simply put this is an inconvenience to America but will be detrimental to many nations.


----------



## Thomas511 (Mar 26, 2019)

NYC, is done for this year and most of 2021. No word when hotels or theatre will open? For hire industry in for a rough ride.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Kurt what you is saying is true but I think somewhat out of context. Right now the entire world is under restrictions and advised not to travel.
> 
> Travel is gonna be extremely impeded until a tested and proven vaccine is released.
> 
> ...


I agree with your assessment in general, but don't you think the US has been unduly harmed by not doing a better job containing the virus?

Let's say the US had a set of policies in place involving some combination of better government emergency preparedness, more companies ready to deal with the crisis proactively, a policy with employers to keep more employees "on the payroll" like in Australia, clearer messaging on lockdowns and more regional reopening where possible, better public awareness and collective responsibility, and other measures. Let's say that this set of policies cut the number of deaths down to one quarter of what it is today. In this almost impossible-to-imagine scenario, wouldn't other countries have fewer travel restrictions imposed on the US from abroad? Wouldn't the whole world be better off? Wouldn't we have more businesses back up and running?

An important thing to remember for both tourism and international business is that even now, we only avoid getting back to international travel because it is unduly difficult to accomplish and because the threat level is consistently too high. If containment had actually happened in more countries, we would know which borders to seal and who exactly to quarantine. Fighting coronavirus right now is like putting toothpaste back in the tube, but that is because of a complete failure by the US and many other countries to properly prepare for this kind of pandemic. It's been predicted for many years and we definitely could have done things differently. I don't know if the leadership structure of our country or even the people are capable of it, but it's possible to imagine realistic things that could have been done to decrease harm and get back to "normal" faster.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I agree with your assessment in general, but don't you think the US has been unduly harmed by not doing a better job containing the virus?
> 
> Let's say the US had a set of policies in place involving some combination of better government emergency preparedness, more companies ready to deal with the crisis proactively, a policy with employers to keep more employees "on the payroll" like in Australia, clearer messaging on lockdowns and more regional reopening where possible, better public awareness and collective responsibility, and other measures. Let's say that this set of policies cut the number of deaths down to one quarter of what it is today. In this almost impossible-to-imagine scenario, wouldn't other countries have fewer travel restrictions imposed on the US from abroad? Wouldn't the whole world be better off? Wouldn't we have more businesses back up and running?
> 
> An important thing to remember for both tourism and international business is that even now, we only avoid getting back to international travel because it is unduly difficult to accomplish and because the threat level is consistently too high. If containment had actually happened in more countries, we would know which borders to seal and who exactly to quarantine. Fighting coronavirus right now is like putting toothpaste back in the tube, but that is because of a complete failure by the US and many other countries to properly prepare for this kind of pandemic. It's been predicted for many years and we definitely could have done things differently. I don't know if the leadership structure of our country or even the people are capable of it, but it's possible to imagine realistic things that could have been done to decrease harm and get back to "normal" faster.


The USA is indeed harmed by the mishandling of Covid. What I'm saying the USA travel restrictions are financial hardships to it's old designations, not the other way around.

Just an example of what im talking about

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2020/0...70-jamaica-looks-to-covid-resilient-corridor/


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> The USA is indeed harmed by the mishandling of Covid. What I'm saying the USA travel restrictions are financial hardships to it's old designations, not the other way around.


I'm saying it goes both ways, whatever the trade balance is. I live in a pretty touristy place that would probably be doing even better with international travel still happening. (As it turns out, everyone who could just drove here instead and it's been busier than I suspected was possible.)


----------



## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

Lyrics
Silence broken
Thunder roll
Followed by the bright light
From a lightning strike
Wind is pickin' up
To a low moan
Feel the pressure drop
Rain start and stop
Storm coming
No way it's gonna miss us now
Storm coming
Don't be frightened by the sound
Moment of silence
Uneasy still
Then come the steady rain
Hard against the window pane
But keep an eye on the river
It's already up
There's no need to worry yet
Let us not forget that
Last time rain come
Down like this
So much was lost
We'll never know the true cost
Storm's coming
No way it's gonna miss us now
Storm coming
Don't be frightened by the sound
There's so much at stake
How far will it go?
Only a fool would place such a bet
On which way the winds are blowing
'Cause there's no way of knowing
What the damage will be
We can't just live on hope
We'll never get out alone
Storm coming
No way it's gonna miss us now
Storm coming
Don't be frightened by the sound of it
Don't be frightened by the sound


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

10,000,000 COVID-19 Cases in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Oy.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Global 2nd Wave, American 3rd Wave (or just a wavy first wave, as they've never gotten their hospilization under control in 2020)?


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

I'm guessing we are good for at least one more wave. ☹


----------



## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

waldowainthrop said:


> View attachment 525539
> 
> 
> I'm guessing we are good for at least one more wave. ☹


Hello and hope you're all well. I have been doing some serious mask research and I noticed that the CBC website today has a high recommendation for the 3 layer mask. Two high quality pieces of cloth a Pellon iron-on fabric. Make sure the Pellon mask you buy has not had pins to make it. I have working with a seamstress the past 3 months and we finally have it finished, adjustable straps with nibs. Variety of colours. 15.00 " The Best Mask "


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Global 2nd Wave, American 3rd Wave (or just a wavy first wave, as they've never gotten their hospilization under control in 2020)?
> 
> View attachment 525536





Karl Marx said:


> Hello and hope you're all well. I have been doing some serious mask research and I noticed that the CBC website today has a high recommendation for the 3 layer mask. Two high quality pieces of cloth a Pellon iron-on fabric. Make sure the Pellon mask you buy has not had pins to make it. I have working with a seamstress the past 3 months and we finally have it finished, adjustable straps with nibs. Variety of colours. 15.00 " The Best Mask "


A Capitalist at Heart !

( they look good)


----------



## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> A Capitalist at Heart !
> 
> ( they look good)


I prefer "Enlightened" capitalist. The Best Mask is seamstress and my neighbour. She does marvelous work and does excellent work. No pins used in the making of the mask. Large paper clips in lieu of pins while creating the mask. Pin holes allow virus to easily enter the mask. The Pellin interfacing or non-woven material makes the mask breathable. Here is an article on the importance of having a non-woven filter and super computer simulations. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-to-stop-covid-19-says-japanese-supercomputer


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

@Karl Marx, you are my favorite kind of capitalist.


----------



## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

waldowainthrop said:


> @Karl Marx, you are my favorite kind of capitalist.


I prefer enlightened capitalism and more like Bernie.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Karl Marx said:


> I prefer enlightened capitalism and more like Bernie.


Bernie Sanders. ❤


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

USA crossed 400,000 THIS WEEK - more people dead from/with Covid than from/with WWII.

https://www.vox.com/2021/1/19/22238568/us-covid-19-deaths-how-many-400000


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> USA crossed 400,000 THIS WEEK - more people dead from/with Covid than from/with WWII.
> 
> https://www.vox.com/2021/1/19/22238568/us-covid-19-deaths-how-many-400000


_Just a Hoax

:notworthy:_


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

It's just the flu. Spring/summer it will be gone due to the 'warming' up.

Ingesting bleach helps too.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

SHalester said:


> It's just the flu. Spring/summer it will be gone due to the 'warming' up.


For better or worse, I think my March 2020 prediction/article gets filed definitively under, "I TOLD YOU SO."


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I think my March 2020 prediction/article gets filed definitively under,


feels good when a post ages well, aye? :biggrin::thumbup:


----------



## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Global 2nd Wave, American 3rd Wave (or just a wavy first wave, as they've never gotten their hospilization under control in 2020)?
> 
> View attachment 525536


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/...Z9htuQTkHYj0mc9mfeWVRMrhFo-fUKNHyPTgoBFYq4dwc
There will be 3rd 4th and 5th waves.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Even now with Vaccine Administration in the USA looking world-class and generally competent (way better than lowly-confused Canada, who have stumbled again and again in the 2nd and 3rd Covid-19 Waves), this thread nonetheless continues to age well.


----------

