# Uber driving at a tax loss



## RicardoH (Apr 23, 2016)

I just started driving in Detroit and the rate is $0.70 a mile

Passenger rate in Detroit is $0.70 per mile
My revenue after Uber cut is $0.50 per passenger mile
I drive an additional 0.7 non-billed miles to pick up PAX
I am netting $0.29 per mile
IRS standard deduction is $0.54 per mile
My tax loss is $0.25 per mile.

IRS rules stipulate that if I can not show a profit then it is no longer classified as a business, but is instead a hobby. Has anyone had IRS rule against them that UBER driving is a hobby and not a business and therefore not tax deductible?


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

what is the per minute rate?, you get both miles and minutes while driving.


----------



## RicardoH (Apr 23, 2016)

LAuberX said:


> what is the per minute rate?, you get both miles and minutes while driving.


Passenger rate is $0.15 per minute
My rate is $0.11 per minute after UBER 28% cut
Billable minutes are 2x times pax billable miles
Billable minutes are 1.17 times total travel miles
Additional income is $0.13 per mile (0.11 per mile x 1.17)

Still a tax loss of $0.12 per mile.

The IRS presumes that an activity is carried on for profit if it makes a profit during at least three of the last five tax years, including the current year.
If an activity is not for profit, losses from that activity may not be used to offset other income. An activity produces a loss when related expenses exceed income. The limit on not-for-profit losses applies to individuals, partnerships, estates, trusts, and S corporations.


----------



## RicardoH (Apr 23, 2016)

Updated to include mins and Surge

Standard Pax rate in Detroit is $0.70 per mile and $0.15 per min
Average surge is 1.13 so rate after surge is $0.79/mile and $0.17 per min
My revenue after Uber 28% cut is $0.57 per passenger mile and $0.12 per min
I drive an additional 0.7 non-billed miles to pick up PAX
I am netting $0.33 per travel mile and $0.12 per travel minute
If I average 60 MPH then I net $0.45 per mile
IRS standard deduction is $0.54 per mile
My tax loss is $0.09 per mile.

My options to avoid IRS determining it is a hobby:
1) Only drive during Surge
2) hope Uber raises normal rates
3) only accept trips that are less than 4 miles away since average billable trip is 8 miles
4) sell other items outside of the ride


----------



## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

RicardoH said:


> Passenger rate is $0.15 per minute
> My rate is $0.11 per minute after UBER 28% cut
> Billable minutes are 2x times pax billable miles
> Billable minutes are 1.17 times total travel miles
> ...


One thing you can do, if your other income is high enough to justify it, is declare tips to make your driving "profitable" in 3 out of the last 5 years. Then soak them in the other two!


----------



## MulletMan (Mar 2, 2016)

Just claim more deadhead miles until you make a profit for the year of $.01 

Uber is awesome. don't ask questions...just drive


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

RicardoH said:


> Updated to include mins and Surge
> 
> Standard Pax rate in Detroit is $0.70 per mile and $0.15 per min
> Average surge is 1.13 so rate after surge is $0.79/mile and $0.17 per min
> ...


I think you are confused. If your net after commission is $0.57 per mile+ $0.12 per minute and you average 60 mph your estimated net is $0.69 per mile. You only deduct your actual expenses if they are greater than the standard mileage deduction of $0.54 per mile. Your estimated tax liability (profit) should be $0.15 per mile with the standard mileage deduction. If you use your actual cost per mile of $0.24 as the deduction, your tax liability (profit) will be $0.45 per mile but you don't want that since you will pay higher taxes. You should be making a profit so don't worry about the hobby issue from the IRS.


----------



## RicardoH (Apr 23, 2016)

LA Dispatcher said:


> I think you are confused. If your net after commission is $0.57 per mile+ $0.12 per minute and you average 60 mph your estimated net is $0.69 per mile. You only deduct your actual expenses if they are greater than the standard mileage deduction of $0.54 per mile. Your estimated tax liability (profit) should be $0.15 per mile with the standard mileage deduction. If you use your actual cost per mile of $0.24 as the deduction, your tax liability (profit) will be $0.45 per mile but you don't want that since you will pay higher taxes. You should be making a profit so don't worry about the hobby issue from the IRS.


You assume that all miles driven is with a billable PAX. I deduct an additional 0.7 dead mile for each billed PAX mile.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

RicardoH said:


> You assume that all miles driven is with a billable PAX. I deduct an additional 0.7 dead mile for each billed PAX mile.


Correct, now let me try again. That will bring the standard deduction up to $0.92 per mile. $0.69-$0.92=*-$0.23* per mile or actual cost that went up to $0.41 per mile. $0.69-$0.41=*$0.28 *per mile profit*. *Now you can pick the best option for you this year.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> One thing you can do, if your other income is high enough to justify it, is declare tips to make your driving "profitable" in 3 out of the last 5 years. Then soak them in the other two!


And hopefully go to prison.

Report your tips. Period.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

MulletMan said:


> Just claim more deadhead miles until you make a profit for the year of $.01


I've like a lot of your other posts around here, but don't cheat the frickin' tax system.

I hate the tax system, but it's the law. Don't like it? Vote.


----------



## df60532 (Aug 26, 2015)

renbutler said:


> I've like a lot of your other posts around here, but don't cheat the frickin' tax system.
> 
> I hate the tax system, but it's the law. Don't like it? Vote.


Gimmie a break..... For whom? Another dishonest #[email protected]? To my knowledge UBER pays NO corporate TAXES in the United States. I'm supposed to care about not claiming a couple hundred dollars of income?


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Yep.

Nobody gets to pick and choose which laws they obey. Not Uber, not you.

Some other people rob convenient stores of a couple hundred dollars, but that would be a shitty excuse to start doing it, right?

Those of us who follow the rules are subsidizing you. Guess what happens if we all decide to stop doing it?

Nobody's perfect, but whenever you find yourself trying to justify your own lack of ethics, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself.


----------



## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

How about getting real job and spending all that tax dodging time actually getting paid?


----------



## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

renbutler said:


> Those of us who follow the rules are subsidizing you. Guess what happens if we all decide to stop doing it?


What happens, the illegal aliens and welfare queens and all other vermin that parasitize our society will have to find some other way to get by?

Screw them, I've had enough of subsidizing every dirtbag on the planet. The government always claims that they can't get by with less money, but somehow the taxpayers can do without it. Anybody who cheats the IRS is fine by me, as long as they are doing something useful for their money.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> What happens, the illegal aliens and welfare queens and all other vermin that parasitize our society will have to find some other way to get by?
> 
> Screw them, I've had enough of subsidizing every dirtbag on the planet. The government always claims that they can't get by with less money, but somehow the taxpayers can do without it.


I hate that so much tax money is wasted too, so that's why we need to vote for smaller, efficient, accountable government.

In the meantime, follow the freakin' rules, or go live somewhere else.



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Anybody who cheats the IRS is fine by me, as long as they are doing something useful for their money.


Disgusting.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> I think you are confused. If your net after commission is $0.57 per mile+ $0.12 per minute and you average 60 mph your estimated net is $0.69 per mile. You only deduct your actual expenses if they are greater than the standard mileage deduction of $0.54 per mile. Your estimated tax liability (profit) should be $0.15 per mile with the standard mileage deduction. If you use your actual cost per mile of $0.24 as the deduction, your tax liability (profit) will be $0.45 per mile but you don't want that since you will pay higher taxes. You should be making a profit so don't worry about the hobby issue from the IRS.


Daaaahhh .... Nobody makes a "profit" when you properly consider 50% dead miles. Roughly half your miles on an uber shift are off the clock, unbilled.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> What happens, the illegal aliens and welfare queens and all other vermin that parasitize our society will have to find some other way to get by?
> 
> Screw them, I've had enough of subsidizing every dirtbag on the planet. The government always claims that they can't get by with less money, but somehow the taxpayers can do without it. Anybody who cheats the IRS is fine by me, as long as they are doing something useful for their money.


Stop talking nonsense, undocumented immigrants don't qualify for welfare.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Daaaahhh .... Nobody makes a "profit" when you properly consider 50% dead miles. Roughly half your miles on an uber shift are off the clock, unbilled.


He accounted for dead miles if you read the whole thread.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Daaaahhh .... Nobody makes a "profit" when you properly consider 50% dead miles. Roughly half your miles on an uber shift are off the clock, unbilled.


I do.

I've been paid $733 by Uber, plus $47 in tips.

That's over 423 paid miles and 529 dead miles, for a tax deduction of $514.

I'm showing a taxable profit of $266. (My real-world profit is about $493 at my actual per-mile expense of 25 cents.)

I don't deduct phone usage because only a tiny portion is used for Uber (driving is a distant second priority behind my regular job). Even if I deducted my entire voice/data plan of $50 per month I would STILL have a profit.

Of course, I drive almost exclusively surges, so my income per total mile (dead/pax) is 82 cents.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> Stop talking nonsense, undocumented immigrants don't qualify for welfare.


He didn't say that. He said illegal aliens are parasites, along with welfare queens.

I'd say that anybody who evades paying ANY taxes (income or payroll) on their earned income, but who expects government benefits, is a parasite, whether illegal or not.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> He didn't say that. He said illegal aliens are parasites, along with welfare queens.
> 
> I'd say that anybody who evades paying ANY taxes (income or payroll) on their earned income, but who expects government benefits, is a parasite, whether illegal or not.


How are illegal immigrants parasites?


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> How are illegal immigrants parasites?


Don't ask me. He said it.

I said:

"I'd say that anybody who evades paying ANY taxes (income or payroll) on their earned income, but who expects government benefits, is a parasite, *whether illegal or not*."

I didn't single out the illegal aliens. I'm referring to _anybody_ who refuses to pay any taxes on earned income, but wants to reap the government benefits. Or households with folks who are able to work but choose not to, while receiving government benefits (but not retirees who already put in decades of work).

That doesn't necessarily include those who earn an income but at least report their income and pay payroll taxes. At least they're following the rules.


----------



## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

LA Dispatcher said:


> How are illegal immigrants parasites?


Let's see, they're in our hospitals, in our schools, in our prisons. As individuals they might not qualify for welfare, but their anchor babies do and that's where the money is.

Build the wall, then I'll have more respect for the taxation system. Until then I don't think of it as supporting my own country.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Let's see, they're in our hospitals, in our schools, in our prisons. As individuals they might not qualify for welfare, but their anchor babies do and that's where the money is.
> 
> Build the wall, then I'll have more respect for the taxation system. Until then I don't think of it as supporting my own country.


Have you factored in all the taxes they pay into the system and that most of them never attended school here? Don't waste my tax dollars on a stupid wall that they will probably build a tunnel under it. Idiots who believe in government waste are the real parasites.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Let's see, they're in our hospitals, in our schools, in our prisons. As individuals they might not qualify for welfare, but their anchor babies do and that's where the money is.
> 
> Build the wall, then I'll have more respect for the taxation system. Until then I don't think of it as supporting my own country.


So, people should just stop paying taxes because some people get some money but don't deserve it?

The vast majority of federal taxes go to defense (necessary at least at some level) and Social Security/Medicaid (most of which at least goes to non-illegals who paid into the system).

It sounds like a terrible excuse for breaking the law. Again, if you find yourself trying to justify avoiding responsibility, take a good hard look at your worldview.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> So, people should just stop paying taxes because some people get some money but don't deserve it?
> 
> The vast majority of federal taxes go to defense (necessary at least at some level) and Social Security/Medicaid (most of which at least goes to non-illegals who paid into the system).
> 
> It sounds like a terrible excuse for breaking the law. Again, if you find yourself trying to justify avoiding responsibility, take a good hard look at your worldview.


It's all a waste. Taxation is robbery, most of those services can be provided by the private sector.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> Have you factored in all the taxes they pay into the system and that most of them never attended school here? Don't waste my tax dollars on a stupid wall that they will probably build a tunnel under it.


I agree that simply building a wall probably won't solve the problem. But it's a fact that undocumented workers do not pay federal income taxes, payroll taxes, and usually state income taxes, yet they reap direct and indirect benefits from our tax expenditures. That's not a good thing.



LA Dispatcher said:


> Idiots who believe in government waste are the real parasites.


You cannot be serious. Even the most "progressive" or liberal folks I've ever met have never claimed there isn't _some_ government waste.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> It's all a waste. Taxation is robbery, most of those services can be provided by the private sector.


I'm a small-government kind of guy myself, with a Libertarian fiscal sensibility. So I understand this, to a point (not quite this far).

But damn it, if I'm going to live here, I'm going to play by the rules until I can help get them changed. Don't like it? Freakin' leave. Now. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay for your benefits.

You know I'm right about this.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> I'm a small-government kind of guy myself, with a Libertarian fiscal sensibility. So I understand this, to a point (not quite this far).
> 
> But damn it, if I'm going to live here, I'm going to play by the rules until I can help get them changed. Don't like it? Freakin' leave. Now. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay for your benefits.
> 
> You know I'm right about this.


"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."-Thomas Jefferson


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."-Thomas Jefferson


Ask him what he thought about paying taxes.

Game over.

I love the quote, even though it gets abused like this. CLEARLY it doesn't apply to simply paying taxes.

Now, is the income tax unconstitutional? Some people think so, but that's a different discussion.

Right now we have a law. If you don't want to pay in, make sure you sever yourself from EVERY direct and indirect tax expenditure, or else you are a parasite.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> Ask him what he thought about paying taxes.
> 
> Game over.
> 
> ...


"And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."-Thomas Jefferson

People who think like you are the parasites since you are justifying government waste. The federal government was so small, it was funded mostly by import tariffs. Maybe you need to get off your high horse.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

renbutler said:


> And hopefully go to prison.
> 
> Report your tips. Period.


It does not work that way but I'll grant your belief system on that.

Any CASH tip is a gift. Gifts are not taxable. Until the IRS mandates Uber to include the tip function in the app. This is exactly how I will treat it, a gift. Are you going to claim your Christmas presents ?

ps Government = The Quasi legalized way of spending other peoples money ~ me.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> People who think like you are the parasites since you are justifying government waste.


And maybe you need to learn how to freakin' read. I'm a fiscal Libertarian, chief, and I already pointed that out.

Government waste is a MASSIVE drag on this country.

How you got that I "justify" it from anything I said says a lot about you, and none of it is good.

Don't be one of "those people" on the Internet who fabricates nonsense about others out of thin air. Please. There's enough of them.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> It does not work that way but I'll grant your belief system on that.
> 
> Any CASH tip is a gift. Gifts are not taxable. Until the IRS mandates Uber to include the tip function in the app. This is exactly how I will treat it, a gift. Are you going to claim your Christmas presents ?
> 
> ps Government = The Quasi legalized way of spending other peoples money ~ me.


That's as creative as it is blatantly incorrect.

A tip is given explicitly for good service, or at least it should be. Gifts aren't given in return for a service.

Granted, most people wouldn't go to prison for not reporting cash tips. Most would just be fined, and that's good enough, depending on the amount.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> And maybe you need to learn how to freakin' read. I'm a fiscal Libertarian, chief, and I already pointed that out.
> 
> Government waste is a MASSIVE drag on this country.
> 
> How you got that I "justify" it from anything I said says a lot about you, and none of it is good.


You keep saying follow the law or move elsewhere. By paying taxes, the government keeps spending. Libertarians don't encourage people to pay for big government. Simple argument on my end.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

LA Dispatcher said:


> You keep saying follow the law or move elsewhere. By paying taxes, the government keeps spending. Libertarians don't encourage people to pay for big government. Simple argument on my end.


You conveniently left out the part where I suggested we should fight legally to change the tax laws.

Libertarians generally don't encourage breaking the laws on the books. That's anarchy.

Instead, they try to get ELECTED so that they can CHANGE the laws.

Not paying taxes is not noble, nor a revolution. It's lazy, and it's selfish.

If you want to make a difference, run for office, or support/campaign for those who will.

Not doing that is, again, lazy. So is saying "they're all the same."

Don't be lazy. And don't be a parasite.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

I mean, think about what YOU are saying.

"I hate the parasites, so I'll react by being a parasite."

Quite an intellectual leap there...


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

renbutler said:


> Yep.
> 
> Nobody gets to pick and choose which laws they obey. Not Uber, not you.
> 
> ...


You are a great american


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm really surprised you average 2 paid minutes per paid mile, I'm around 4 minutes. Surges and promotions will add to that. Do Lyft and you'll have tips, too. 

If after 3 years you're still driving and still operating at a "IRS Loss", I'll be very surprised.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

RicardoH said:


> ...
> My options to avoid IRS determining it is a hobby:
> 1) Only drive during Surge
> 2) hope Uber raises normal rates
> ...


Or 5) None of the above.
Which is the correct answer.

For starters, in the first reportable tax year of this enterprise one can show a "loss". By definition, the "3 in 5" rule doesn't come into play until the enterprise has reported for 5 years.

Secondly, the IRS does not MANDATE one report/claim all deductible expenses. One is entitled to, but doesn't have to. They do require one report ALL revenues/incomes. The enterprise controls if they report a profit by simply reducing it's reported deductible expenses.

In this case the usual factor is mileage. Reduce your claimed mileage until a profit is reflected. And pay taxes on that profit. Said plainly, one can legally understate expenses but not overstate. Capisce?

Oh and full disclosure/disclaimers apply here, not a tax lawyer, not giving tax advice, consult your local professional etc. etc.


----------



## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> You conveniently left out the part where I suggested we should fight legally to change the tax laws.
> 
> Libertarians generally don't encourage breaking the laws on the books. That's anarchy.
> 
> ...


Libertarians believe in the non-agression principle and taxation violates it. We should follow the constitution as intended instead of worrying about democracy to bring change. I don't think you have a deep understanding of Libertarianism since you're contradicting yourself. At least you agree that big government is a terrible idea.


----------



## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

Ok... I'll try to get this back on the rails. I am a tax attorney. 

You are talking about a passive activity loss, othweise known as a "hobby loss". The rules for PAL is that you can only take deductions to the extent of your income. In other words if you have 10,000 income and 15,000 expenses, you don't get to claim a 5,000 loss. You claime zero income. 

The theory here is that you could have people making lots of money and paying high marginal rates, and having some sort of BS "business" which was really a hobby or passion (look theses cases up, lots involve horse ranches, luxury vehicles, etc). They could claim losses on the businesses, which would offset income from other areas, and they would pay less taxes.

My advice - keep excellent records. Substantiate everything, and take only what you are entitled to take. You may have a loss. Claim it on your return. I would like to see the argument a counsel attorney makes for someone driving 50+ hours a week as a "hobby". 

I have posted on here before that it's actually good tax stragegy to get a low cost, high efficient vehicle and drive as much as possible to take a tax loss to offset other income. Tax avoidance is not criminal. Tax evasion is.


----------



## AlexTBM (Feb 13, 2016)

renbutler said:


> And hopefully go to prison.
> 
> Report your tips. Period.


What tips??


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

UberPissed said:


> I have posted on here before that it's actually good tax stragegy to get a low cost, high efficient vehicle and drive as much as possible to take a tax loss to offset other income. Tax avoidance is not criminal. Tax evasion is.


I'd rather have a business model that turns a profit (real-world and for tax purposes), even if that means paying taxes on it. I know that's virtually impossible if you do this full time, but I drive on the side during surges, with very low expenses.

What I don't like about the taxes is the SE tax. You don't owe payroll taxes unless you make over $400 (actually, $433.12, because you get to multiply by .9235 to deduct the employer's share of the tax as a business expense). But after that, it's not phased in -- the next dollar of net profit triggers payroll taxes not only on that dollar, but on the first $433.12.

That means if I make $433.12, the next $65.12 of net profit is taxed at 100%. It's ludicrous the things the IRS comes up with.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

RicardoH said:


> I just started driving in Detroit and the rate is $0.70 a mile
> 
> Passenger rate in Detroit is $0.70 per mile
> My revenue after Uber cut is $0.50 per passenger mile
> ...


You could itemize ( food, snacks, gas, water, oil, repairs, depreciation, etc ),
and still be put in low bracket, and show a modest profit.


----------



## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

renbutler said:


> I'd rather have a business model that turns a profit (real-world and for tax purposes), even if that means paying taxes on it. I know that's virtually impossible if you do this full time, but I drive on the side during surges, with very low expenses.
> 
> What I don't like about the taxes is the SE tax. You don't owe payroll taxes unless you make over $400 (actually, $433.12, because you get to multiply by .9235 to deduct the employer's share of the tax as a business expense). But after that, it's not phased in -- the next dollar of net profit triggers payroll taxes not only on that dollar, but on the first $433.12.
> 
> That means if I make $433.12, the next $65.12 of net profit is taxed at 100%. It's ludicrous the things the IRS comes up with.


No, if you have $435, you pay self employment tax on the whole thing. If you have $400, you don't. It's an arbitrary line, nonetheless, but you can't feel cheated by not having a phase in. The $400 threshold does give a benefit to those under $400, but it was probably designed to show that those making that amount of money probably are not engaged in regular business activity. You can't look at this immediate phase in as a penalty. Just think as an amount less than $400 a free pass on SEP taxes.

I know you want to make a profit, but if you comb the thread here, the goal of ride sharing was never to make a profit. Uber holds itself out as a company that is "sharing rides" so drivers shouldn't be profitable. I know, insane, given their marketing and what people really are doing, which is driving a cab without regulations. The best you can do is game the sytstem legally. People are on this thread buying waters, mints, etc and sucking the depreciation out of a brand new vehicle. I hate to call names, but they are idiots if they think they are making money. That is why most people only do it short term. They realize they have been fleeced.

That said, if you get an old vehicle, in the 2-3k range, that is fuel efficient, you can make some decent cash flow. You can have earnings and post a loss. If you have other income, every dollar lost will offset anywhere from 10 to 30 cents of tax that you owe.


----------



## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

UberPissed said:


> No, if you have $435, you pay self employment tax on the whole thing. If you have $400, you don't.


That's exactly what I was saying.



UberPissed said:


> It's an arbitrary line, nonetheless, but you can't feel cheated by not having a phase in.


I don't feel cheated, but it's stupid. Almost everything else in the tax world gets phased in, although the ACA monstrosity has similar examples in which you lose hundreds of dollars if you make $1 more of income.



UberPissed said:


> I know you want to make a profit, but if you comb the thread here, the goal of ride sharing was never to make a profit. Uber holds itself out as a company that is "sharing rides" so drivers shouldn't be profitable. I know, insane, given their marketing and what people really are doing, which is driving a cab without regulations. The best you can do is game the sytstem legally. People are on this thread buying waters, mints, etc and sucking the depreciation out of a brand new vehicle. I hate to call names, but they are idiots if they think they are making money. That is why most people only do it short term. They realize they have been fleeced.
> 
> That said, if you get an old vehicle, in the 2-3k range, that is fuel efficient, you can make some decent cash flow. You can have earnings and post a loss. If you have other income, every dollar lost will offset anywhere from 10 to 30 cents of tax that you owe.


I know what you're saying, but I disagree if the idea is to _try _for a loss on the tax form. I see a net loss on the tax form as having a bright side (reduced taxable income), but I don't see it as a goal.

I do this solely for the purpose of being profitable. And I have created a business model to make it happen (driving only surges, with costs of only 25 cents/mile). It's just a few bucks on top of my regular income, but it's also just a few hours of time, and I kind of enjoy it some of the time.


----------

