# NPR /All Things Considered - 1/18/16 - In The Battle Between Lyft And Uber, The Focus Is On Drivers



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

*In The Battle Between Lyft And Uber, The Focus Is On Drivers*
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...3473462/is-uber-good-to-drivers-it-s-relative
January 18, 20164:30 PM ET AARTI SHAHANI
[Audio for this story from All Things Considered will be available at approximately 7:00 p.m. ET. 1/18]

Hundreds of thousands of people drive for Uber in the U.S. The ride-hailing company has had high-profile fights in courts and city halls over the status of these drivers: Are they employees or contractors? Can they unionize?

A fight that's gotten far less attention - one that may affect drivers far more - is the competition between Uber and its main rival, Lyft.

*A Dramatic Tactic*
Competition for drivers is so great that, about a year back, Uber sent covert operatives into Lyft cars, to recruit.

Isabella Dure-Biondi was one of these covert operatives.

"I don't really care Lyft versus Uber," she says. "But I had the chance to make money and I was getting free Lyft rides."

In November 2014, a woman who worked for Uber told Dure-Biondi she could make cash quick. They met at the Arbor Café in Oakland, Calif. "She had a laptop and then she had me sign some" papers, Dure-Biondi says.

By the end of 2014, Uber had hired hundreds of people across the country for this very grassroots job. For its part, Lyft says it offers bonuses to current drivers who sign on new ones.

Dure-Biondi got Uber training on the spot.

"We took a couple of rides together, and she kind of showed me how to" get Lyft drivers to switch to Uber, Dure-Biondi adds.

The recruiter, who independently verified these details with NPR, gave Dure-Biondi an iPhone. For two months, Dure-Biondi would order Lyft cars, hop in, and start chatting up the driver: How you doing? How's your day?

"Oh, where are you from? Asking nice-people questions. Just being nice," Dure-Biondi says.

And then, she'd casually slip in: "Why'd you decide to drive for Lyft? Oh yea, that's really interesting.

"Well, would you ever consider driving for Uber?" she would ask. "Why did you decide Lyft over Uber?"

At this point in the conversation, Dure-Biondi would reveal that she's an Uber ambassador_._And if the driver signs up right now, they would each make hundreds of dollars.

Interestingly, only one guy agreed. Dure-Biondi says the big bonus wasn't enough: "A lot of people chose Lyft because of the morals of it versus Uber. It was more of a friendly company."

*Drivers Compare The Services*
Scott Christopherson drives for both Lyft and Uber. "Yeah, I think that there is a difference in the relationship between passengers and drivers in the two platforms," he says.

NPR spoke with two dozen people who decided to work for both companies. And consistently, these drivers say: In Lyft there are fewer expectations. It's more touchy-feely.

Passengers are supposed to hop in the front seat and be friendly because, as the motto goes, the driver is "your friend with a car."

"I have very few problems with Lyft passengers," Christopherson says. "They're generally very nice. Or if they're not nice, they're quiet."

Uber started as a luxury brand. Its motto is "everyone's private driver." So, Christopherson says, for people like him - people who drive super-part time, who have other jobs - it's not a great feeling when passengers expect a chauffeur.

"They don't really kind of care about what you think of them. And so it's a little more fraught," he says.

Driver Jennifer Rose agrees there's a difference, but doesn't think it's a bad thing. On days when she's high on life, has great news about her kids, she can really enjoy a chatty Lyft passengers. Other times, she likes the quiet. "I can appreciate the person who wants to talk the whole trip or the person who just wants to sit there and take a ride," she says.

Financially, there are differences too. NPR examined drivers' payment statements. Lyft takes 20 percent of fares. Uber takes 20 to 25 percent on the standard service, and 28 percent on the SUV service.

Most drivers say these percentages are fairly comparable. It's another line item that stands out: "The one thing that Lyft does and Uber doesn't is tipping! Did you notice that looking at the [statements]?" Christopherson says.

Lyft says its drivers earned about $58 million last year - on top of fares - through tips.

*Lyft: Our Mission Is Different*
Lyft Chief Marketing Officer Kira Wampler says the company is more focused on driver well-being than Uber is because Lyft has a different mission.

While both companies want to improve transportation, Lyft explicitly has an environmental goal: to get fewer cars on the road and fill empty seats.

"You can't fill every seat in every car unless the people in each car treat each other well," Wampler says.

Uber declined an interview to discuss driver benefits. But in an email, Faryl Ury, a company spokeswoman, says it's misleading to just say that Uber takes a bigger cut from drivers. Driver earnings depend a lot on how many rides they get, and in most markets Uber has more passengers calling. On tipping, Ury says, research shows tips are not really based on quality of service, so drivers could be rewarded or dinged unfairly.

*Competition Is Good*
Ryder Pearce, co-founder of Sherpashare, a site that tracks wages and expenses for on-demand drivers, says competition is an "enormous benefit" for workers. When Uber or Lyft announces a new perk, the other follows, thereby pushing up the floor.

For example, both companies recently announced short-term car rentals for drivers who don't have their own wheels or insurance.

"Uber and Lyft both recognize that if they don't keep rates competitive, and add more driver perks - and both have very large teams working on this - they will lose out on drivers," Pearce says.

Sherpashare data indicate many drivers work for more than one service. Pearce says they don't have a strong incentive to be loyal because the differences between companies are not that stark. Drivers' bottom-line concern: "They just want to log in and have passengers to pick up," he says.

If one company won and got all the business, he says, drivers would lose out.


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

NPR reporters will stick closely to the Uber narrative because most guest speakers will be pro-Uber -- want to bet? The biggest recruitment issue is the false and deceptive claims of income. Uber can't tell the truth because most drivers make under minimum wage if you consider the rates in all the cities that Uber is extracting money from. Do you think the fact that most Uber drivers don't make minimum wage will be mentioned? On Craig's list, Uber is currently claiming $1136/wk in NYC and $588/wk in New Jersey. Experienced Drivers know that you will get about .43% of Ubers stated amount (give or take .03%). Uber NEVER, NEVER STATES THE NUMBER OF HOURS TO MAKE THE AMOUNT ADVERTISED. Uber is vulnerable to false and misleading advertising and has been sued in California Courts for being deceptive.

Here is a FTC statement on mobile app TRUTHFUL ADVERTISING. Of course, the FTC lets Uber be a scofflaw, that's the Uber way, separate and unequal, so read it with a few grains of salt.

*https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/bus.../marketing-your-mobile-app-get-it-right-start*


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Uber conveniently bombard their way into communities promising drivers one thing and made those of us who were in this early subject to fines and having our cars impounded. We were the face of Uber in the early days who provided an efficient service that was almost always met by sincere thankfulness. Uber is just a west coast douchbag company that does nothing for the local economies of drivers under the guise of progress and disruption. It actually punishes longterm drivers by being loyal and by pushing those subprime car loans onto people who had budgeted money for bills each month...especially in the early days. There's no social responsibility with these people.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> NPR reporters will stick closely to the Uber narrative because most guest speakers will be pro-Uber -- want to bet?


I'm wondering why you would post an opinion on something you haven't heard.

The promo I heard on NPR this morning sounded like anything but the Uber narrative.
Did you hear that promo?

Have you heard ANY of NPRs other reporting on Uber?

See this one from Dec on Uber's claim that Independent Contractors can't unionize which reports:

_Let's start by fact checking David Plouffe. The policy guru at Uber - who used to be the
campaign guru for President Obama - did an interview with NPR last month. On the
right to unionize, as Seattle was proposing, Plouffe said, "Well, there's very clear federal
law on this, that independent contractors cannot be organized. [So] that's clear."_​
_Well actually, it is clear that he's wrong..._​
and this one from Oct on health insurance and gig economy workers, which reports:

_Critics of the on-demand economy say that Uber and the rest are the latest in a long line 
of companies that use fancy wordplay and questionable tactics to avoid protecting workers."
"Uber tries to argue that it's not in the car service industry; it's a technology platform," said 
plaintiff's lawyer Liss-Riordan in an interview. "The court rejected that..." _​
a link to the new story is now in the top post here


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I'm wondering why you would post an opinion on something you haven't heard.


I'm not sure of what you are saying.. One can have an opinion on a future event. I'm saying the show will tilt toward Uber narrative, i hope i'm wrong. But i doubt it, due to all the other interviews i've heard on NPR.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> I'm not sure of what your saying.. One can have an opinion on a future event.


not really... hehe... you can only have a prediction about something that hasn't happened. 
Having made a prediction, you can then have an opnion on your own prediction of whatever it is that hasn't happened! 
Point being:
this is the NEWS section...
can we wait for commentary until we read/hear/see the actual NEWS?


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> not really... hehe... you can only have a prediction about something that hasn't happened.
> Having made a prediction, you can then have an opnion on your own prediction of whatever it is that hasn't happened!
> Point being:
> this is the NEWS section...
> can we wait for commentary until we read/hear/see the actual NEWS?


We are the actual News.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> We are the actual News.


I am hoping THAT will be the actual NPR story today!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ugh... not too much of a story here - and nothing new for drivers that we don't already know.
About the ONLY take-away from the story is that <spolier alert> Lyft encourgaes tipping, Uber does not.
<yawn>
Still, anything that sheds a light on ANY of Uber's negative practices can only be good for all drivers.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

This story was highly unimpressive, craptacular, and not very well researched from a veteran drivers' point-of-view. They could have come to this forum for much more insight as to what's really going on.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Probably won't be hearing any "real" accounts of UberX and Lyft std. fare drivers making bupkis in mainstream media.


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## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

Demon said:


> Have they posted a link to this broadcast online yet?


Audio posts at around 7 p.m. ET.

The above text version is a fairly cookie-cutter report. Doesn't really get too deep beneath the surface.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I heard this story this afternoon and for some reason, what I got out of it, was that this may be the biggest reason uber and lyft don't want to classify us as employees. I can't see how we could work both platforms as they would have requirements that would prevent it. We'd obviously choose to work the one with better benefits, be them earnings or whatever. Then rates would have to go up. We all know that lyft entering a city causes uber to slash rates now


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## TakinItUpWithUber (Mar 14, 2015)

The article is right on target. Lyft passengers tend to be more considerate, less self absorbed and they tip! (60-70% do). Also typically they're out front waiting and if not will contact you first with a heads up. True Uber is more popular but in between trips would rather wait sometimes the extra 15 minutes for a Lyft request.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> *HEAD'S UP:*
> NPR is airing a story on All Things Considered this afternoon on Uber's driver recruting practices...
> Should be interesting as this is the story that all of the mainstream media have been ignoring for two years.
> *In The Battle Between Lyft And Uber, The Focus Is On Drivers*
> ...


POST # 1/Michael - Cleveland: Bostonian
Bison Thanks You
for this Hyperlinked NPR Story of Interest
to #[F]Uber/Lyfter Pilots in Particular &
A-B TNC Drivers in General. Of particular
help for those whose Data Plans get chewed
up with Daily Drivering, the Article being
printed out, in-thread, is a Big Bonus.

As
chi1cabby would have put it, I will
paraphrase, your work here exemplifies
that of The Great "Great Laker".

Bison Admires.
Bison Inspires!


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Ca$h4 said:


> NPR reporters will stick closely to the Uber narrative because most guest speakers will be pro-Uber -- want to bet? The biggest recruitment issue is the false and deceptive claims of income. Uber can't tell the truth because most drivers make under minimum wage if you consider the rates in all the cities that Uber is extracting money from. Do you think the fact that most Uber drivers don't make minimum wage will be mentioned? On Craig's list, Uber is currently claiming $1136/wk in NYC and $588/wk in New Jersey. Experienced Drivers know that you will get about .43% of Ubers stated amount (give or take .03%). Uber NEVER, NEVER STATES THE NUMBER OF HOURS TO MAKE THE AMOUNT ADVERTISED. Uber is vulnerable to false and misleading advertising and has been sued in California Courts for being deceptive.
> 
> Here is a FTC statement on mobile app TRUTHFUL ADVERTISING. Of course, the FTC lets Uber be a scofflaw, that's the Uber way, separate and unequal, so read it with a few grains of salt.
> 
> *https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/bus.../marketing-your-mobile-app-get-it-right-start*


POST # 3/Ca$h4 : Thank You for this
Valuable Supplement to
Michael - Cleveland 's StartedThread.

Explaining how You got to 43% on
the CraigsList vs. Reality would.be
Important to the Readership.

Kudos for including a Hyperlink to
the FTC Website where "Truth in Ad-
vertising" is mentioned Prominently.

Well-done, Sir!

Mentoring Bison: Calls'em like he sees'em.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 1/Michael - Cleveland: Bostonian
> Bison Thanks You


You can't refer to yourself as 'Bostonian Bison'
whilst sitting on your bum in Marco in January -
as your Beantown Brethren shiver in the northern climes.


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## Driver2020 (Sep 2, 2015)

How about an NPR story on Uber AND Lyft's misleading advertisements and wages. Sick of the propoganda. NPR had the nerve to report that most Uber driver's feel the pay is fair.. Really? Who have the spoken to? Have they visited this forum. Smh.


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## Hanrahan (Jan 4, 2016)

I agree that most reporters are biased for the company they use when relaying a story through the media. Look at Howie Carr of WRKO. A big part of his success on radio is because many cab drivers were tuned into him while driving. Now that he is an Uber customer he slams the cab industry,who had a hand in his Neilsen Ratings, and is basically mouthpiece for Uber. I can't say it enough the industry has forever changed and not to the benefit of the driver no matter who you work for. Part timers are also a big factor.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Only fools look to NPR for quality journalism.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(I deleted the post because it is irrelevant to the thread.)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Driver2020 said:


> NPR had the nerve to report that most Uber driver's feel the pay is fair.. Really? Who have the spoken to? Have they visited this forum. Smh.


Yeah... this forum, which reaches maybe .04% - scratch that... maybe 4% of drivers in the US (~20,000 members here vs. at least 500,000 drivers in the US).

THIS forum is made up of the MINORITY of drivers who take the time to get involved, learn more about Uber/Lyft and participate in the conversation BECAUSE they are displeased (or curious). WE are the vocal minority... but a minority nonetheless.

It's no coincidence that as reporters and researchers from everywhere in the US go out and talk to RANDOMLY selected drivers they hear much less discontent than is displayed here in UP.n. That doesn't mean that we here are 'wrong' or that the majority are 'right'... it just means that (as with most things political/personal/financial) the majority are not particularly knowledgeable or well informed... becuase most poeple are just too busy trying to live their life and support their family.

Regardless: it's not a fault of NPR
(which has made it it's mission to highlight the big picture, which is the end-run gig economy companies are making around the Fair Labor & Standards Act (FLSA) by classifying workers as Independent Contractors).

Just my opinion.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Generally NPR is left of center. In reporting on huge conglomerates, generally they are anywhere from neutral to against. Someone said NPR will toe TNCs company line. Overall that is unlikely to bear out (on average). They may say things, report on things, that agree with those companies, but, left of center means overall, you will see the net effect of their content will be center (neutral) to negative. So, overall, for drivers who are against Uber on UP, NPR is actually kind of like their voice on average.


NPR lockstep supports politically correct and crony corporatization of "new tech" and "progressive" businesses, whereas they hold complete disdain or outright hate for traditional American business.

What this means is that you will never hear a story of them criticizing an industry that appears to support their socialistic/fascistic idea of how things ought to be.

Uber and Lyft are "progress" toward a world without icky cars and even ickier drivers, so Uber and Lyft will get NPR's full support. You and I and the rest of the Uber/Lyft driver cadre are only standing in the way of NPR-approved "progress."


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You can't refer to yourself as 'Bostonian Bison'
> whilst sitting on your bum in Marco in January -
> as your Beantown Brethren shiver in the northern climes.


POST # 17/Michael - Cleveland: You can
take the Bison
out of Boston, but you CAN'T take The
Bostonian out of The Bison!

Ungulate: Cocoanut Postcard anyone ?


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post for irrelevancy.)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> NPR lockstep supports politically correct and crony corporatization of "new tech" and "progressive" businesses, whereas they hold complete disdain or outright hate for traditional American business.
> 
> What this means is that you will never hear a story of them criticizing an industry that appears to support their socialistic/fascistic idea of how things ought to be.
> 
> Uber and Lyft are "progress" toward a world without icky cars and even ickier drivers, so Uber and Lyft will get NPR's full support. You and I and the rest of the Uber/Lyft driver cadre are only standing in the way of NPR-approved "progress."


LOL! Spoken like someone who just makes stuff up to support their own worldview.
Fortunately, the reality of the evidience in NPR reporting says otherwise, as they tear into the gig economy billion dollar babies one at a time.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post due to over sharing.)


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> I don't agree with everything that is on NPR, but I listen to NPR a few hours a month. I don't agree with everything that is on Fox News but I watch Fox News a few hours a month. Same thing with CNN, MSNBC, BBC, etc. I try to do that for music too (though it is a little harder for music because for some of them, you are like, you call this music? For politics, you don't think You call this politics? Because it IS politics!).
> 
> No time to watch and listen to every spectrum of people and their news? Try proportionally cutting down, say, limiting to one hour each month for each channel/station. Rather than completely ignore some and watching only one or two (I do realize most people do this).
> 
> If one is open minded yet rational, and only let rational reasonings dictate his beliefs and positions rather than emotions, then one won't be afraid of watching or listening to the other side's views for fear of being emotionally brainwashed.


I have NPR on most of the day. I never turn on Fox and don't really care to, as I doubt I'd agree with much that's on there, either, and watch no TV on most days. I am not afraid of opinions that differ from my own, but I am trained to spot bias, and I can tell you NPR is absurdly liberal in bias. If you can't see it, it's almost certainly because you agree with the bias and thus can't even see that it is there.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> I have NPR on most of the day. I never turn on Fox and don't really care to, as I doubt I'd agree with much that's on there, either, and watch no TV on most days. I am not afraid of opinions that differ from my own, but I am trained to spot bias, and I can tell you NPR is absurdly liberal in bias. If you can't see it, it's almost certainly because you agree with the bias and thus can't even see that it is there.


Adults know that having an opinion or reaching a conclusion is not the same thing as being biased.
bi·ased: _unfairly prejudiced_ for or against someone or something​


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## MaGicMiKe (Oct 20, 2015)

Nobody really cares. Bottom line for the passenger " How much?"
Bottom line for for driver " How much?" Coke, Pepsi. Big deal.
Nobody cares NPR, sorry.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(Poster deleted post for irrelevancy.)


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post for irrelevancy.)


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Yeah... this forum, which reaches maybe .04% of drivers in the US (~20,000 members here vs. at least 500,000 drivers in the US).
> 
> THIS forum is made up of the MINORITY of drivers who take the time to get involved, learn more about Uber/Lyft and participate in the conversation BECAUSE they are displeased (or curious). WE are the vocal minority... but a minority nonetheless.
> 
> ...


You meant 0.04% or 4.00%?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> You meant 0.04% or 4.00%?


yeah - 4%. <shrug>


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

I think actually, there are probably only about 0.04% of the 500,000 drivers, i.e., 200 drivers, who are following UP posts closely. I surmised from the number of views various threads get.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> Uber conveniently bombard their way into communities promising drivers one thing and made those of us who were in this early subject to fines and having our cars impounded. We were the face of Uber in the early days who provided an efficient service that was almost always met by sincere thankfulness. Uber is just a west coast douchbag company that does nothing for the local economies of drivers under the guise of progress and disruption. It actually punishes longterm drivers by being loyal and by pushing those subprime car loans onto people who had budgeted money for bills each month...especially in the early days. There's no social responsibility with these people.


I agree with you on most of your points, but Lyft is a West Coast company....Uber started on the East coast.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

OK...we can play around with the exact starting point if you want. Uber didn't become RELEVANT until the launch in San Francisco.

https://newsroom.uber.com/ubers-founding/


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> OK...we can play around with the exact starting point if you want. Uber didn't become RELEVANT until the launch in San Francisco.
> 
> https://newsroom.uber.com/ubers-founding/


Uber certainly is a West coast company in it's headquarters now, but really Lyft fits the Left (West) coast liberal agenda that an NPR likes, better than the corporate East coast style of an Uber....is all I am saying. : )


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberLaLa said:


> Uber started on the East coast.


That's misleading. The Uber brainsotming started in Paris, France...
the testing of the system (with just 3 black cars) was done in NYC -
but the roll-out was in San Fransisco.

Regardless... the important difference (in my view), is that Uber started out as a Black Car service...
while Lyft started from the ground up as a peer-to-peer service.
I think THAT is what defines the culture difference between the two. <shrug>


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post for irrelevancy.)


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Adults know that having an opinion or reaching a conclusion is not the same thing as being biased.
> bi·ased: _unfairly prejudiced_ for or against someone or something​


Opinions and conclusions are always biased by the point of view of the observer or reporter. Anyone who denies this or can't see it is merely acknowledging that he or she shares the same bias as the observer or reporter. Fair and unfair are opinions, too. Adults are the ones who know and acknowledge these truths.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Yes, I can see the bias on NPR, just like I can see the bias on Fox, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, and any other channel. It is very easy to tell any bias on any channel. I have not heard or watched a channel/station that has zero bias. IMHO 95% (or even much higher percentage) of radio and TV news are for entertainment, the other, 5% or less, is for useful information/insights. If one truly wants to learn, one reads (for example, reading UP posts IMHO one can get about 20% of what one reads here being useful info and insights, if one reads selected good news wire long-form news stories one may be lucky to push that "useful info/total content" ratio up to more than 50%).
> 
> When one faces the arguably estimated 95% of content on TV and radio, one's attitude should likely be "What do these commentators think about the issue?" Not necessarily expecting to learn from them (though we should keep an open mind as they surprise us once in a full moon with useful insight or info). It's like trying to talk to a drunk passenger while driving them home. Just wanting to hear what a drunk person says when he is wasted, rather than expecting some great insight from them (but we shoukd keep an open mind, as even a drunk can mathematically possibly utter something that helps you solve some math puzzle that have eluded mathematicians for decades).


Well said. The news is 1 percent facts and 99 percent an attempt to shape your opinion on the facts. The source of the news doesn't shift this ratio much, but it markedly changes in which direction they propagandize. One of my profs in college proved this by having us watch the nightly news with a stopwatch and writing down how much of it was actually facts. Then she had us work on spotting the bias and spin and training us to recognize what she called the tell-tale "weasel-words." It was eye-opening, to say the least.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> LOL! Spoken like someone who just makes stuff up to support their own worldview.
> Fortunately, the reality of the evidience in NPR reporting says otherwise, as they tear into the gig economy billion dollar babies one at a time.


The denial is strong in you. NPR is bourgeois hackery thinly sprayed with enough socialist cologne to fool the tools whom they rely on for donations.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> What bothers me more is many commentators on NPR seem to have huge egos about their intellectual superiority (which is prevalent in all media outlets, not just on NPR!).
> 
> If one likes to learn and spends a lot of time learning every day, one knows very well, the biggest obstacle to learning and absorbing useful info and insights is having an ego.
> 
> Humility helps in learning.


NPR's listeners are similarly impressed with their "correctness" and "superiority," and both are sadly self-deluded. "All Things Considered" my ass.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Opinions and conclusions are always biased by the point of view of the observer or reporter.


You and I have may have different biases
but if we don't agree that 2 + 2 = 4
then one of us is very misguided.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post for irrelevancy)


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post for it being not relevant to thread.)


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> That was a good, thinking prof that you had.
> 
> Most of the people I have observed save time and effort in their daily lives from having to think about things or the world around them by either (A) letting the media / news commentators do the thinking for them, and/or (B) relying on the twenty to fifty friends of theirs do the thinking for them.
> 
> It is very rare in life that one can come across a forum like UP where quite a number of people who don't mind spending their time thinking and sharing and exchanging insights respectfully on a forum, agreeing to disagree without getting too worked up.


She was awesome and opened my eyes to many things. I agree about not getting too worked up over this stuff.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> From a marketing / market positioning standpoint, NPR is pure genius. While MSNBC probably gets 35% of the population on the left, CNN gets 40% on the left, Fox gets 45% on the right, NPR, by hooks or by crooks, somehow arguably gets 55% of the population, thereby crossing the median, 50th percentile person in America!


Like Uber itself, NPR is pure genius-evil genius.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> CWRU alum?


I'm not sure what CWRU is, sadly, so I must not be an alum.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

(poster deleted post due to irrelevancy and over sharing)


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> g. On tipping, Ury says, research shows tips are not really based on quality of service, so drivers could be rewarded or dinged unfairly.


AHHHHH...so THAT'S why they won't give your riders tip options. How thoughtful. Thank god they are looking out for you!!! LMAO


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## Merc Man (Dec 19, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> NPR's listeners are similarly impressed with their "correctness" and "superiority," and both are sadly self-deluded. "All Things Considered" my ass.


Are you heading to a guzzi rally this summer?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> If Californians call their own Stanford and UC Berkeley the Ivy League of the West Coast, then I want to call CWRU and John Carroll University Ohio's Ivy League.


Putting John Carroll in the same class as Stanford, CWRU, or any Ivy League school is an insult to those institutions. 
JCU (3,500 students) has an 82+% acceptance rate.
(The 60,000 student Ohio State Univ acceptance rate is only 55%)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> One the things I learned from him was it is impossible to learn new things if one is burdened with a big ego.


That is absolutely one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
I have an enormous ego and I learn new things every day.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

I like NPR myself. If I turn on the radio it's probably going to be NPR or local talk radio. But have shifted to listening to alt media sources and enjoy diverse viewpoints even if I disagree.

Mainstream media inclusive of NPR is bought and paid for largely by megacorp and runs various forms of propaganda in their interests. But even alt media has to shill to pay their bills. Just have to sort through the pieces.

I also enjoy various lectures from supposed intellectuals such as Chris Hedges or Noam Chomsky.


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## MBENZ_GUY (May 13, 2015)

I have no issues with this NPR report other than missing the real reason most drivers pick a ride share company. It's about the money. With that said, the article did a good job of citing differences in the company DNA of Lyft and Uber. "A lot of people chose Lyft because of the morals of it versus Uber. It was more of a friendly company." I've never driven for Lyft, but if this statement holds any truth, they sure could make a big splash in Houston. There's an army of pissed off Uber drivers in Houston and Lyft could gain a huge advantage just by treating the drivers better and paying slightly more than Uber.

NPR is the PBS of radio. Intellectualism is desperately needed in today's journalism.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Lyft is just a pink colored vulture capitalist rather than a blacknwhite one. Same bird, different color.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> The denial is strong in you. NPR is bourgeois hackery thinly sprayed with enough socialist cologne to fool the tools whom they rely on for donations.


You are aware, arent't you, that the governing board that oversees NPR (and PBS) operations is made up of 4 republicans and 4 democrats?

And that the only time the chairperson of the CPB has ever been forced to resign was when Congress found that he was force-feeding a CONSERVATIVE agenda on to public broadcasting?

But don't let the facts get in the way of your bias and self-rightous insults to people who hold a different view than your own.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You are aware, arent't you, that the governing board that oversees NPR (and PBS) operations is made up of 4 republicans and 4 democrats?
> 
> And that the only time the chairperson of the CPB has ever been forced to resign was when Congress found that he was force-feeding a CONSERVATIVE agenda on to public broadcasting?
> 
> But don't let the facts get in the way of your bias and self-rightous insults to people who hold a different view than your own.


I am not a republican, so that doesn't impress me, let alone prove that NPR is "fair and balanced."

As I said, the only people who cannot see NPR's bias are the people who share that bias. I do not share their bias, so it stands in stark relief to me. Plus, I was trained in how to spot bias. YMMV and all that.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

scrurbscrud said:


> Lyft is just a pink colored vulture capitalist rather than a blacknwhite one. Same bird, different color.


Sadly, I'm starting to see the truth in this.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> I am not a republican, so that doesn't impress me, let alone prove that NPR is "fair and balanced."
> 
> As I said, the only people who cannot see NPR's bias are the people who share that bias. I do not share their bias, so it stands in stark relief to me. Plus, I was trained in how to spot bias. YMMV and all that.


fair enough - 
but you're confusing NPR with Fox News.


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## MBENZ_GUY (May 13, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> I am not a republican, so that doesn't impress me, let alone prove that NPR is "fair and balanced."
> 
> As I said, the only people who cannot see NPR's bias are the people who share that bias. I do not share their bias, so it stands in stark relief to me. Plus, I was trained in how to spot bias. YMMV and all that.


Could also be that you've been led by proponents that are far off center and this makes NPR appear biased. At one time Jeb Bush was perceived to be a strong left conservative, but in the shadow of Cruz and Trump, ole Jeb seems like a tree hugger. It's all about perception. Fox, MSNBC, CNN attempt to shape perception. This is why people call for BALANCED reporting. Intelligent people seek balance in decision making.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Putting John Carroll in the same class as Stanford, CWRU, or any Ivy League school is an insult to those institutions.
> JCU (3,500 students) has an 82+% acceptance rate.
> (The 60,000 student Ohio State Univ acceptance rate is only 55%)


(Poster deleted the entire thread except the last sentence due to it being not suitable for this thread.)

Go Bucks!


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You are aware, arent't you, that the governing board that oversees NPR (and PBS) operations is made up of 4 republicans and 4 democrats?
> 
> And that the only time the chairperson of the CPB has ever been forced to resign was when Congress found that he was force-feeding a CONSERVATIVE agenda on to public broadcasting?
> 
> But don't let the facts get in the way of your bias and self-rightous insults to people who hold a different view than your own.


(poster deleted post due to over sharing of irrelevant comments.)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> most Ivy League grads would fall off their chairs if "CWRU" is mentioned in the same sentence as "Ivy League"


Not really.
Only in the same way that an Ivy Leauger would scoff at ANY school that is not Ivy Leauge.
CWRU is pretty much on par with Brown... 
but with twice as many grad school students
(because of their top notch grad schools).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> 1. I have not met any Ivy League alums who do not consider Stanford and MIT as our equals.
> 
> 2. About Number 2 here--Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just observing and reporting without passing any judgement, as usual--some of us find safety in numbers (cue Ohio State, Penn State), while some others think the smaller the enrollment the better. On Number 2here--not arguing, just reporting.
> 
> ...


Princeton would take issue with that.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> fair enough -
> but you're confusing NPR with Fox News.


Anyone who thinks there is any meaningful difference in the amount and depth of bias between Faux News and National Progressive Radio is either a lockstep "conservative" (they aren't, really) or a lockstep "progressive" (they aren't, really).

Just two sides of the same propagandist coin, really.

YMMV and all that.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Republican and Demcratic are party affiliations (labels). Some Republicans are more socially liberal than a lot of Democrats, and some Democrats are more socially conservative than a lot of Republicans.
> 
> When party-affiliated people serve in leadership roles (whether they are paid or non-paid ones), while still appearing to appease those from their parties, arguably the biggest motivation for them while serving those roles is for their own, self enrichment.


Yes, and add in the fact that the US is peculiar in having essentially binary politics. In most other democracies, there are many political parties that reflect the nuance in opinion of their population.

Personally, I find both parties repugnant in one or more aspects. This time, _all_ the D candidates are going full-****** in demanding new gun control. I cannot vote for them for that reason. Period. End of story. Don't even try to peddle to me the fiction that you don't want to take my guns. I voted for the current president in 2008. Biggest mistake of my voting career. YMMV and all that.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Yes, and add in the fact that the US is peculiar in having essentially binary politics. In most other democracies, there are many political parties that reflect the nuance in opinion of their population.
> 
> Personally, I find both parties repugnant in one or more aspects. This time, _all_ the D candidates are going full-****** in demanding new gun control. I cannot vote for them for that reason. Period. End of story. Don't even try to peddle to me the fiction that you don't want to take my guns. I voted for the current president in 2008. Biggest mistake of my voting career. YMMV and all that.


*You've made a career of voting? How can I get in on that gig!*

Reminder to everyone (including me) -
There's a section here called 'OTHER'...
use it to post those digressions from the subject of a thread...
these are good conversations, but let's not bore people to death with a complete hijacking of a topic.
(yeah, I know - I'm guilty of it, too)
You can even a post a link in the original thread to the new thread
(on the incredibly small chance that anyone actually wants to follow the new thread!)

And be careful on 'politics' - 
officially, politics and religion are verbotten topics here... 
skate that line carefully or you'll see mods deleting your otherwise interesting commentary.

Thanks - your next-door-neighbor-user will appreciate it.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Good point. Let's focus on NPR's report as it relates to Lyft and Uber.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> *You've made a career of voting? How can I get in on that gig!*


35 years of eligibility and have never missed an election. What else to call it but a career?


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## JuanIguana (Nov 24, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> When one looks at our country viz a viz other countries, it is easy to tell the biggest strength, the biggest asset we have, as a country, that has made us the strongest in the world and will continue to be the deciding factor whether we will remain the greatest nation in the world, is in the very wide spectrum, the huge diversity of our people.
> 
> We should cherish that. For that, is our great asset, greatest strength. It is almost always, a uniquely American strength, the greatest American competitive advantage.
> 
> For example, one of the millions of different types of people, perhaps unimaginable to be existent just ten years ago, is an increasingly larger group (I surmise it's between 5-10% of our population now) of modern, open-minded, socially liberal, but pro-small government and low-tax people. Most of them are millennials!


wtf...fasten your seat belt and shutup, gUber rider! "Socially liberal...pro-small government. .."?? ???!!!


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Like most goods and services that are still surviving in our society, the NPR has a large group of die hard supporters. We need to show respect and recognize the contribution of NPR in servicing the market and satisfying the tastes and needs of various types of consumers and cherish the fact that NPR helps provide a diverse spectrum of choice for the consumers.


LOL. We're never gonna agree on this, but the naked truth is that NPR serves the needs of only one type of consumer: socialistic "progressives." And NPR's transparent bias at turns amuses and disgusts everyone else.

This is the bottom line to me: NPR does not deserve a single dollar from the US government. Nor does it deserve the "National Public Radio" descriptor, because it does not fairly balance the view of all Americans. After all, where is the taxpayer supported radio for conservatives and libertarians (as if they would even want such a thing)? A fair and just government would de-fund NPR and thereby force the people who like it to support it 100 percent. We don't have a fair and just government.

Though I attacked no one and confronted no one, I'm guessing that pointing these things will get me banned.


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## MBENZ_GUY (May 13, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> LOL. We're never gonna agree on this, but the naked truth is that NPR serves the needs of only one type of consumer: socialistic "progressives." And NPR's transparent bias at turns amuses and disgusts everyone else.
> 
> This is the bottom line to me: NPR does not deserve a single dollar from the US government. Nor does it deserve the "National Public Radio" descriptor, because it does not fairly balance the view of all Americans. After all, where is the taxpayer supported radio for conservatives and libertarians (as if they would even want such a thing)? A fair and just government would de-fund NPR and thereby force the people who like it to support it 100 percent. We don't have a fair and just government.
> 
> Though I attacked no one and confronted no one, I'm guessing that pointing these things will get me banned.


As I stated in an earlier post: Could also be that you've been led by proponents that are far off center and this makes NPR appear biased. At one time Jeb Bush was perceived to be a strong left conservative, but in the shadow of Cruz and Trump, ole Jeb seems like a tree hugger. It's all about perception. Fox, MSNBC, CNN attempt to shape perception. This is why people call for BALANCED reporting. Intelligent people seek balance in decision making.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

MBENZ_GUY said:


> As I stated in an earlier post: Could also be that you've been led by proponents that are far off center and this makes NPR appear biased. At one time Jeb Bush was perceived to be a strong left conservative, but in the shadow of Cruz and Trump, ole Jeb seems like a tree hugger. It's all about perception. Fox, MSNBC, CNN attempt to shape perception. This is why people call for BALANCED reporting. Intelligent people seek balance in decision making.


No, as I said earlier, I am not a conservative, and I am not a Republican. And I have training in spotting bias.

NPR is ridiculously biased to the left. NPR is "fair and balanced" to the same degree that Faux News, MSDNC, NBC, etc. all are. There are no meaningful differences between the corporate media in this regard, other than the direction to which they are biased, not the degree to which they are biased.

If you can't see NPR's naked bias, that's most likely because you share its bias. That bias comforts you for holding your own biases, as it is intended to do.

YMMV and all that.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks for the warning ClevelandUberRider, but there is no point in the Dems seeking my vote. Every single one of the current Dem candidates wants to take away my guns, and that means I cannot vote for them. Period. I will never vote for someone who wants to narrow the boundaries of my liberty. I made that mistake in 2008, voting for the jug-eared liar who currently occupies the White House. It's time for real hope and change, IMO, or this country is going to dust off the Declaration of Independence and balkanize.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> It sounds like Texas Cruz Missile or Kentucky Rand are closer to your stance.
> 
> Bernie Sanders is much more protective of gun manufacturers than most Democrats--Hillary has been focusing her firepower on this aspect because his voting record on this is out of whack with the Democratic Party's.
> 
> Just my personal view, no matter who is in the White House, Americans' gun rights are pretty much secure because of the NRA for two reasons. A, the NRA has enough lobbying power/influence over more than half of the House members. B, the NRA is very good at turning out members and their families to vote, and financially supporting pro-gun candidates and defeating pro-gun control candidates.


We are one SCOTUS appointment away from losing the 2nd Amendment forever, and the NRA can't prevent that from happening. Don't fool yourself about Bernie. His record on gun rights would such far worse if his constituents would have allowed it.

If the Dems win this next election, they will likely get 2 SCOTUS picks, and they will surely pick more gun-banners. When this "transformed" court rules that the 2nd is a collective right, America will likely balkanize over this issue of liberty. Maybe it's finally time for that to happen? Maybe I should vote Dem and then just sit back and watch it all burn? Sad times we are in that I'm even forced to think this way.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

Hanrahan said:


> I agree that most reporters are biased for the company they use when relaying a story through the media. Look at Howie Carr of WRKO. A big part of his success on radio is because many cab drivers were tuned into him while driving. Now that he is an Uber customer he slams the cab industry,who had a hand in his Neilsen Ratings, and is basically mouthpiece for Uber. I can't say it enough the industry has forever changed and not to the benefit of the driver no matter who you work for. Part timers are also a big factor.


Lets get down to brass tacks, reporters stories make it to us after passing through an editor, that editor is not just scanning for typos...they are seeing if there is a conflict of intrest between what the reporter covers and what the sponsors interests are. You think Uber is some 60 billion dollar company that works alone? No that 60 billion came from other entitys many other entitys many sponcers. Those buku bucks are what filters the news. You got a problem with uber? You got a problem with coorperate america everyone whos anyone is conected with uber...with ubers new territory of food delivery bet on companies like coca cola, kraft and nestle being a part of them as well. This is bigger than drivers and pay and tips and trips. This is the enslavement of the human race. Uber is skynet.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

So Uber says 'no tips for you!' because they want to protect me from being rewarded unfairly?


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

negeorgia said:


> So Uber says 'no tips for you!' because they want to protect me from being rewarded unfairly?


Can't you feel Travis's love?


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> As we speak SCOTUS has only 4.5 conservative votes left, the other 4.5 votes are po-NPR (I am using certain key words of the thread title to remain relevant to the thread).
> 
> As for the 0.5 it depends on each case that they agree to be heard, whether that one pivotal vote justice is focusing on the popular sentiments from voters including Uber and Lyft drivers, and where that tie-breaking justice falls in the battle between conservatives and liberals.
> 
> All things considered, SCOTUS is now essentially divided 4.5 to 4.5.


That's what I was getting at. The next appointment will likely change that balance.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> CleanSafePolite, which of the two act more like Skynet?
> 
> A. Elected politicians.
> B. Uber.
> ...


 I think coorperate america is skynet, with the cold calculations that commoditize humans, the algorythyms that dictate how we get paid or controlled are already done by computers, they are gathering us together and killing us off with pay reductions in the name of efficiency and profit maximization. We are loosing jobs to machines so the machines literally are killing us off. The government is just a limb that belongs to this beast. Skynet is upon us already.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

A leech has twin daughters (corporate greed and government greed) named, 'gimme' and 'gimme more'!


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Govt. corporations. Which of the two do you have a choice to "give" them money, and which one you really don't have much choice?
> 
> Hint: If one doesn't like Fox or NPR, one doesn't have to listen or watch their "shows" (that's what media companies' programs are, even though they call them "news"). You don't have to donate to them if you don't want to. Then they won't get the few pennies for each TV or radio tuned to their shows (according to ratings) they generate from each of their ads. But if the govt funds them with tax dollars, then that part we have very small control over.


who places politician in positions of power? coorperate sector. Therefore government falls under coorperate.


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 3/Ca$h4 : Thank You for this
> Valuable Supplement to
> Michael - Cleveland 's StartedThread.
> 
> ...


To avoid a long ranging answer because Uber has different rates for different cities, I think the Post by UberHammer provides a very good way (not the only way) to plug in numbers (variables) to get to a driver's actual wage per hour.

*https://uberpeople.net/threads/math-1-00-mile-7-68-per-hour-at-best.14459/
*


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Ca$h4 said:


> To avoid a long ranging answer because Uber has different rates for different cities, I think the Post by UberHammer provides a very good way (not the only way) to plug in numbers (variables) to get to a driver's actual wage per hour.
> 
> *https://uberpeople.net/threads/math-1-00-mile-7-68-per-hour-at-best.14459/*


POST # 86/Ca$h4: Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for this
Hyperlinked Thread from o v e r ...e l e-
v e n...months ago when 3/4 of the Total
Content of Today's Available "Wisdom"
had YET to be written! To highlight
some of 11th Notable UberHammer 's
Best Work, serves to Reinforce what I
have said for OVER a year now:

"The An$wer$ to Your Questions are
..........................IN HERE !"......................


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