# The gig is up



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing gig work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when they're trying to run a plantation.


----------



## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing good work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when hey're trying to run a plantation.


Do the rules say anything about schedules and time clocks. For me it is more about benefits like workers comp insurance.


----------



## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

Lack of independence is a false narrative. In other industries employees work flex hours. One doesn’t need to be an IC to choose their own schedule.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

May H. said:


> Lack of independence is a false narrative. In other industries employees work flex hours. One doesn’t need to be an IC to choose their own schedule.


We don't want a system where we have to pick time slots like doordash cuz all the time slots are going to always be occupied


----------



## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Ummm5487 said:


> We don't want a system where we have to pick time slots like doordash cuz all the time slots are going to always be occupied


And door dash drivers are still IC’s so your straw man fell apart.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

May H. said:


> Lack of independence is a false narrative. In other industries employees work flex hours. One doesn’t need to be an IC to choose their own schedule.


*Comment and a short bio about me*

As someone who work for GATX/ American President line as a shipping clerk for about 7 years place was open 24/7 even from the beginning I never understood why the workers on the floor had to work fixed hours basically everything they was doing that day was being prepared to go out the next day or the day after what was stopping anyone for being able to work a split shift are only work part-time and someone else have their other half of their part-time I never understood that, I actually actually talked about it one day to one of the supervisors he said that would never work it would never fly whatever,

The reason I brought it up to a supervisor was because the warehouse had a very strict attendance policy based on a point system of seven, if you were late by even one minute you got 1/2 point, if you were late by more than one minute to 2 hours you got one point if you were more than 2 hours late you got two points which was considered as a no-show even though you may have worked your 6 hours being 2 hours and 1 minute late went on your record is not being there, one point only came off every 90 days, at Five Points you were sitting in the manager's office, at 7 points you were fired, you could only get 3 days off being sick with a doctor's excuse but you were still giving one point, it was later changed to nine points but the system was still pretty much the same, after being there for 7 years I started having a lot of family difficulties mainly my mom was ill and sometimes I had to look after her or leave home late when I was approaching 9 points I quit, that's when I started driving for a living, at that time which was around 1999 driving the taxi as I saw it was the only option I had for having a flexible schedule, in 2011 my wife died of lung cancer I wasn't dealing with it mentally very well I could not deal with people so I stopped driving Taxi, I returned to driving in late 2014 for Uber.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Rideshare Dude said:


> And door dash drivers are still IC’s so your straw man fell apart.


Oh I get it ...you want to argue like a nagging wife..na that's not what I'm here for


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> *Comment and a short bio about me*
> 
> As someone who work for GATX/ American President line as a shipping clerk for about 7 years place was open 24/7 even from the beginning I never understood why the workers on the floor had to work fixed hours basically everything they was doing that day was being prepared to go out the next day or the day after what was stopping anyone for being able to work a split shift are only work part-time and someone else have their other half of their part-time I never understood that, I actually actually talked about it one day to one of the supervisors he said that would never work it would never fly whatever,
> 
> The reason I brought it up to a supervisor was because the warehouse had a very strict attendance policy based on a point system of seven, if you were late by even one minute you got 1/2 point, if you were late by more than one minute to 2 hours you got one point if you were more than 2 hours late you got two points which was considered as a no-show even though you may have worked your 6 hours being 2 hours and 1 minute late went on your record is not being there, one point only came off every 90 days, at Five Points you were sitting in the manager's office, at 7 points you were fired, you could only get 3 days off being sick with a doctor's excuse but you were still giving one point, it was later changed to nine points but the system was still pretty much the same, after being there for 7 years I started having a lot of family difficulties mainly my mom was ill and sometimes I had to look after her or leave home late when I was approaching 9 points I quit, that's when I started driving for a living, at that time which was around 1999 driving the taxi as I saw it was the only option I had for having a flexible schedule, in 2011 my wife died of lung cancer I wasn't dealing with it mentally very well I could not deal with people so I stopped driving Taxi, I didn't returned to driving in late 2014 for Uber.


Sorry about your wife.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Do the rules say anything about schedules and time clocks. For me it is more about benefits like workers comp insurance.


You think Uber/Lyft is gonna just roll over and pay salaries & benefits while y’all continue to sit on your asses and pick & choose?
You’ll be forced-dispatched driving ghetto bars and delivering ghetto orders at 2am.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

They need to focus on regulating IC’s to have them treated like IC’s with full transparency, showing pickup/dropoff locations, showing pay when pings come and not penalizing drivers for not accepting pings. They also need to regulate how deactivations are done, many unjust. 

Making IC’s employees is not the way to go. Also what should be regulated is the percentage these gig companies take. I’ve seen them take as much as 85% on this forum.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Invisible said:


> Making IC’s employees is not the way to go.


I agree. 

However, I think the day will come when these gig apps wise up and do not allow sole proprietors to sign up and instead require corporations or LLCs.

This will relieve them of any and all “employee” type responsibilities, and then everyone will really be at the mercy of gig apps.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Invisible said:


> Also what should be regulated is the percentage these gig companies take. I’ve seen them take as much as 85% on this forum.


Gig companies rob their drivers, that’s for sure. But when the gubmint starts forcing their “oversight” into the mandates, they’ll be charging their “taxes & fees” as well. Drivers will continue to get f’ked every which way but loose.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> You think Uber/Lyft is gonna just roll over and pay salaries & benefits while y’all continue to sit on your asses and pick & choose?
> You’ll be forced-dispatched driving ghetto bars and delivering ghetto orders at 2am.


Shitloads of W2 employees refuse work assignments and/or goof on and live to tell about it, which is nothing new in the world of business. Despite this fact many gig workers who are staunchly opposed to W2 status paint portraits of near slave-labor working conditions awaiting gig drivers if they ever become employees.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Uber's Guber said:


> You think Uber/Lyft is gonna just roll over and pay salaries & benefits while y’all continue to sit on your asses and pick & choose?
> You’ll be forced-dispatched driving ghetto bars and delivering ghetto orders at 2am.


It’s insane that these nitwits think they will get the benefits of employment AND the benefits of being an IC. 🤯🤯🤯


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing good work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when hey're trying to run a plantation.


Stock manipulation. 

A day before an analyst said Uber pickup response time tremendously better than Lyft, Lyft stock dives.

Today we get this and the shorts make money. Only if the dimwits sell.

Hit bottom, time to buy.

Making rideshare drivers employees can't happen, it would destroy the businesses and cause more gridlock, more drunks on the road, etc.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Stock manipulation.
> 
> A day before an analyst said Uber pickup response time tremendously better than Lyft, Lyft stock dives.
> 
> ...


The liberals want as much chaos and confusion and destruction as possible by biden own admission we are in the midst of Armageddon and he still got time to try to take away gig workers freedom and make them nine to five Charlie's like we so desperately don't want to be


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Shitloads of W2 employees refuse work assignments and/or goof on and live to tell about it *GOT THEIR ASSES FIRED*, which is nothing new in the world of business.


*FIFY*
Because if you think real employees get away with pulling the same shit'n-ass constant shenanigans that we pull on Uber/Lyft, then you've never had a real job.


Nats121 said:


> many gig workers who are staunchly opposed to W2 status paint portraits of near slave-labor working conditions awaiting gig drivers if they ever become employees.


Oh, don't be so dramatic. Rideshare gigging is a brainless no-skill lazy-ass gig, it will never be a "slave-labor" gig. The only skills required is the ability to open an app and grunt once in a while. My position is, _I_ get to choose _when & where _I decide grunt, should I even decide to turn the app on.
The day Rohit gets to appoint quota-assigned ghetto-gigs into hoodrat-infested shitholes is the day this ride is over.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Stock manipulation.
> A day before an analyst said Uber pickup response time tremendously better than Lyft, Lyft stock dives.
> Today we get this and the shorts make money. Only if the dimwits sell.
> Hit bottom, time to buy.
> Making rideshare drivers employees can't happen, it would destroy the businesses and cause more gridlock, more drunks on the road, etc.


I can definitely see this happening:
On Monday, Nancy Pelosi slurs her gin-soaked breath into the ear of Biden's brainless head and tells him _"let's turn rideshare giggers into employees."_
On Tuesday, the stock tanks. Her husband Paul Pelosi buys up the stock.
On Wednesday, Nancy Pelosi says to brainless Biden, _"I changed my mind..."_


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Uber's Guber said:


> Because if you think real employees get away with pulling the same shit'n-ass constant shenanigans that we pull on Uber/Lyft, then you've never had a real job.


Wow we agree on something.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I agree.
> 
> However, I think the day will come when these gig apps wise up and do not allow sole proprietors to sign up and instead require corporations or LLCs.
> 
> This will relieve them of any and all “employee” type responsibilities, and then everyone will really be at the mercy of gig apps.


I could see that. 


Uber's Guber said:


> Gig companies rob their drivers, that’s for sure. But when the gubmint starts forcing their “oversight” into the mandates, they’ll be charging their “taxes & fees” as well. Drivers will continue to get f’ked every which way but loose.


True but that’s why the system needs to revamped and there should be some protections for IC’s. These gig companies need to be held accountable for false advertising.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

X


Invisible said:


> I could see that.
> 
> True but that’s why the system needs to revamped and there should be some protections for IC’s. These gig companies need to be held accountable for false advertising.


False advertising could possibly explain the current FTC involvement…


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> The liberals want as much chaos and confusion and destruction as possible by biden own admission we are in the midst of Armageddon and he still got time to try to take away gig workers freedom and make them nine to five Charlie's like we so desperately don't want to be


Your freedom with gig work is kind of a fallacy though. You’re not free to negotiate your rates. You’re not free to choose who you want to drive, without facing repercussions. You’re not free to know the exact pickup/dropoff before you accept a ping.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Invisible said:


> True but that’s why the system needs to revamped and there should be some protections for IC’s. These gig companies need to be held accountable for false advertising.


LOL the GOVERNMENT needs to be held accountable for false advertising.


----------



## bullitt4930 (4 mo ago)

Invisible said:


> Your freedom with gig work is kind of a fallacy though. You’re not free to negotiate your rates. You’re not free to choose who you want to drive, without facing repercussions. You’re not free to know the exact pickup/dropoff before you accept a ping.


But you're free to drive or not to drive...period.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Invisible said:


> Your freedom with gig work is kind of a fallacy though. You’re not free to negotiate your rates. You’re not free to choose who you want to drive, without facing repercussions. You’re not free to know the exact pickup/dropoff before you accept a ping.


I can say you're just about wrong on every point you just tried to make... but I'm not here to argue.. I would just assume that you don't have up front pricing in your market cause here I get the distance the pickup location to drop off location and how much I'm making per mile with every ping... And more and more nowadays I called the passenger and tell them I can't pick them up unless they give me a tip up front because not making any money and a taxi cab cost a lot more and I tell them I need at least between five and 15 dollars maybe even 20 depending on the distance of the trip and nine times out of 10 they just say come pick me and I'll cancel the ride and pay you the whole thing ...before you say I don't have the insurance to be doing that I absolutely do have the insurance to be doing that ..I got that insurance a few months ago


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

bullitt4930 said:


> But you're free to drive or not to drive...period.


It's depressing how some people like to argue no matter what... I didn't put this here to argue with people back and forth about irrelevant nuances... I was just spreading the news its a chance things are about to change... Like you said we're free to work or not we're free to take breaks whenever we want to.. we're free to work however long we want to... But yet some losers are going to come here and argue about if we're free or not.. people get more and more annoying day by day


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Do the rules say anything about schedules and time clocks. For me it is more about benefits like workers comp insurance.


You can get Workman’s Comp now, as well as health insurance and contribute to Social Security so you might be able to retire.
All you have to do is pay for it.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> The liberals want as much chaos and confusion and destruction as possible by biden own admission we are in the midst of Armageddon and he still got time to try to take away gig workers freedom and make them nine to five Charlie's like we so desperately don't want to be


He never said we were in the middle of an Armageddon, he said we are living under a threat of Armageddon.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Atavar said:


> He never said we were in the middle of an Armageddon, he said we are living under a threat of Armageddon.


Okay so we arguing about that too.. guys on Uber people are the most bickering bunch of men I've ever seen in my life


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

If you are not accurate with your attributions someone will surely call you out on it.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Ummm5487 said:


> Okay so we arguing about that too.. guys on Uber people are the most bickering bunch of men I've ever seen in my life


----------



## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

Invisible said:


> They need to focus on regulating IC’s to have them treated like IC’s with full transparency, showing pickup/dropoff locations, showing pay when pings come and not penalizing drivers for not accepting pings. They also need to regulate how deactivations are done, many unjust.
> 
> Making IC’s employees is not the way to go. Also what should be regulated is the percentage these gig companies take. I’ve seen them take as much as 85% on this forum.


I agree the AR shouldn’t even be factored into our work or ability to use the App seeing I have the right to say no to a low paying job.

Also I agree the Gig Companies should be only allow 25% of the total pay before tip and nothing more.

We as driver’s should also be allowed to set our minimum rate for a ride per mile.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Who told you that we have the right to decline low paying jobs? We are punished any number of ways if we do.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> *FIFY*
> Because if you think real employees get away with pulling the same shit'n-ass constant shenanigans that we pull on Uber/Lyft, then you've never had a real job.
> 
> Speak for yourself. I don't pull shenanigans and neither do most drivers. And don't pretend that shenanigans are being pulled because kind-hearted Uber says it's OK with them because it's not OK with Uber. Every shenanigan you can think of is a violation of Uber's contract, are considered as fraud, and are grounds for termination. Non-shenanigans can also be considered as fraud, are violations of Uber's contract, and are grounds for termination.
> ...


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> However, I think the day will come when these gig apps wise up and do not allow sole proprietors to sign up and instead require corporations or LLCs.


That's how Fedex Ground works but it's doubtful that it could work for rideshare and food delivery due to the high volatility of our business.

It seems to me that if it was doable the gig companies would have done it by now. They despise the drivers and would love to be able to offload their "headache" onto a third party. Apparently potential third party companies don't believe it would be profitable for them to do it.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

bullitt4930 said:


> But you're free to drive or not to drive...period.


By not driving and/or declining pings all day because the pay is abysmal, you’re not making money. No biggie for the part-time drivers who are doing it for fun, have other jobs, get social security or a pension. It’s the full-time drivers who can’t make enough to survive.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> I can say you're just about wrong on every point you just tried to make... but I'm not here to argue.. I would just assume that you don't have up front pricing in your market cause here I get the distance the pickup location to drop off location and how much I'm making per mile with every ping... And more and more nowadays I called the passenger and tell them I can't pick them up unless they give me a tip up front because not making any money and a taxi cab cost a lot more and I tell them I need at least between five and 15 dollars maybe even 20 depending on the distance of the trip and nine times out of 10 they just say come pick me and I'll cancel the ride and pay you the whole thing ...before you say I don't have the insurance to be doing that I absolutely do have the insurance to be doing that ..I got that insurance a few months ago



If I’m wrong, please tell me that you get to set or negotiate your rates. You also know the actual pick up address/drop-off at the ping & not just a partial pickup address or a map of the appropriate area but the full addresses. And then if you see a pax who you sense could be trouble and you cancel before he/she gets in your car, that if pax complains you denied him/her a ride because of race or sexual orientation, that you won’t get threatening messages of risk of deactivation. If those answers are no, then you are the only driver who gets this special treatment. 

By you calling pax before you pick them up and telling them they must tip you for you to pick them up is extortion. Your time is ticking, and soon one pax is going to get you the Big D, deactivation.


----------



## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

Invisible said:


> If I’m wrong, please tell me that you get to set or negotiate your rates. You you also know the actual pick up address/drop-off at the ping & not just a partial pickup address or a map of the appropriate area but the full addresses. And then if you see a pax who you sense could be trouble and you cancel before he/she gets in your car, that if pax complains you denied him/her a ride because of race or sexual orientation, that you won’t get threatening messages of risk of deactivation. If those answers are no, then you are the only driver who gets this special treatment.
> 
> By you calling pax before you pick them up and telling them they must tip you for you to pick them up is extortion. Your time is ticking, and soon one pax is going to get you the Big D, deactivation.


Yeah, I never mention extra payment because once I have accepted the amount that mean I am fine with the dollar amount and if a tip is added, well great.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Invisible said:


> If I’m wrong, please tell me that you get to set or negotiate your rates. You you also know the actual pick up address/drop-off at the ping & not just a partial pickup address or a map of the appropriate area but the full addresses. And then if you see a pax who you sense could be trouble and you cancel before he/she gets in your car, that if pax complains you denied him/her a ride because of race or sexual orientation, that you won’t get threatening messages of risk of deactivation. If those answers are no, then you are the only driver who gets this special treatment.
> 
> By you calling pax before you pick them up and telling them they must tip you for you to pick them up is extortion. Your time is ticking, and soon one pax is going to get you the Big D, deactivation.


It's like I'm a psychic...I had a feeling the boat was about to sink and I jumped ship...i gave Uber and Lyft the big D...now I do something nearly identical to rideshare but I never leave the airport and I drive someone else vehicle and they pay for gas and I receive atleast $100 in tips every night plus $100 in base pay... God is good 🙌 and I still have plenty of time to do other gigs...I'm going for $100k this year


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> That's how Fedex Ground works but it's doubtful that it could work for rideshare and food delivery due to the high volatility of our business.
> 
> It seems to me that if it was doable the gig companies would have done it by now. They despise the drivers and would love to be able to offload their "headache" onto a third party. Apparently potential third party companies don't believe it would be profitable for them to do it.


I’m going to suggest that these gig companies never intended for any of this to become full time for many… so they used the easiest type of business model in the beginning, that is, to sign up everyone as sole proprietors… not realizing that this would eventually backfire. If the business model was reworked like I stated previously, it would take time to implement but it is definitely doable. There is really no added cost to the gig companies except for reworking the contract. In the end this would save them tons of costs defending against labor lawsuits. Once you alleviate yourself from sole proprietors it is a true business to business transaction. When I used to bring independent contractors into my business it was never as a sole proprietor. It was always business to business… they had to be a corp or llc.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I’m going to suggest that these gig companies never intended for any of this to become full time for many…


That's not correct. Since day one the bedrock of the gig economy has been FULL TIME DRIVERS, especially for the rideshare companies. If they had their way every driver would be full time.

Travis Kalanick eagerly recruited full timers right from the get go, and for good reason, which is they're more reliable than side hustlers.

Not only did he recruit full time drivers, he also promoted fleet ownership as a "long term business opportunity".

His zeal to recruit full timers "backfired" to the tune of millions of dollars in fines for falsely advertising high pay rates for 40 hour per week drivers.

Uber has always offered the best Quest bonuses to full time drivers. They created the xchange leasing program years ago and now they rent cars thru Avis and Hertz for hundreds of dollars per week... for FULL TIME DRIVERS. Side hustlers don't spend $300-$500 per week to rent vehicles, full timers do.

The most recent scumbag CEO to lie about full timers is DD's Tony Xu. He falsely said gig work is meant to be part time... which is a LIE. His POS company would go out of business if his full time drivers quit.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Uber's Guber said:


> You think Uber/Lyft is gonna just roll over and pay salaries & benefits while y’all continue to sit on your asses and pick & choose?
> You’ll be forced-dispatched driving ghetto bars and delivering ghetto orders at 2am.


This is an “all jobs are shit jobs” myth. There are plenty of jobs that offer flexibility. Having flexibility is not the the primary distinction between being an employee or an independent contractor. The main test is if drivers fully operate as if they are an independent business entity. The evidence for Uber drivers being employees is much stronger.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> That's not correct. Since day one the bedrock of the gig economy has been FULL TIME DRIVERS, especially for the rideshare companies. If they had their way every driver would be full time.
> 
> Travis Kalanick eagerly recruited full timers right from the get go, and for good reason, which is they're more reliable than side hustlers.
> 
> ...


So which gig company are you an employee of? 

You always seem to be talking on their behalf as if you have some type of inside knowledge of what their intentions are or should be…


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> So which gig company are you an employee of?
> 
> You always seem to be talking on their behalf as if you have some type of inside knowledge of what their intentions are or should be…


As a gig worker I'm closer to being an employee than a business owner. Do your own side by side comparison and you'll see what I mean. I've been a small (very small) business owner as well as a "true" IC business owner (I once ran my own little courier service for three months).

I've never had any inside info. Instead, I've always done my homework and combined that knowledge with common sense. The info is readily available online.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> As a gig worker I'm closer to being an employee than a business owner. Do your own side by side comparison and you'll see what I mean. I've been a small (very small) business owner as well as a "true" IC business owner (I once ran my own little courier service for three months).
> 
> I've never had any inside info. Instead, I've always done my homework and combined that knowledge with common sense. The info is readily available online.


Since you want to be a driver/employee I can’t wait for you to come back here the day that happens with you complaining about forced 20 minute pickup times for a trip that will pay you maybe $4 for an additional 30 minute trip to a place there is no available pickups and you have to dead head back or even dead head further away for another forced pickup… all for minimum wage in your state.

By all means, please enjoy. To each their own.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Since you want to be a driver/employee I can’t wait for you to come back here the day that happens with you complaining about forced 20 minute pickup times for a trip that will pay you maybe $4 for an additional 30 minute trip to a place there is no available pickups and you have to dead head back or even dead head further away for another forced pickup… all for minimum wage in your state.
> 
> By all means, please enjoy. To each their own.


Please post a screenshot of mine in which I said I want to be an employee driver. If you checked one of my earlier posts you'd see that I said that being a W2 driver probably wouldn't work for me.

On a zillion occasions I've said I want a govt-regulated version of what we have now with major pay increases, full transparency, and major improvements in the treatment.

In other words I want drivers to be paid a lot better and treated a lot better than they are now.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> As a gig worker I'm closer to being an employee than a business owner. Do your own side by side comparison and you'll see what I mean. I've been a small (very small) business owner as well as a "true" IC business owner (I once ran my own little courier service for three months).
> 
> I've never had any inside info. Instead, I've always done my homework and combined that knowledge with common sense. The info is readily available online.


Yep. Uber drivers have much more in common with employees than independent contractors. Scheduling flexibility alone does not make drivers ICs.

From the Department of Labor Doc:

_As the Tenth Circuit observed in Dole v. Snell, “*flexibility in work schedules is common to many businesses and is not significant in and of itself*.” Thus, scheduling flexibility should not supplant a full evaluation of the control factor, with the *ultimate question of economic dependence guiding the analysis…*

In fact, circuit courts have often evaluated scheduling flexibility relative to other forms of control by the employer; *where the employer has more control in other ways, scheduling flexibility becomes less relevant*. In Verma, the Third Circuit found the ability to set hours, select shifts, stay beyond a shift, and accept or reject work to be “*narrow choices*” when evaluated against other _*types of control by the employer, such as setting the price for services*_. And multiple district courts have concluded that scheduling flexibility—including* picking when to work or having the freedom to decline work—was not necessarily indicative of the overall control by an employer nor dispositive of a worker’s independent contractor status*._


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Please post a screenshot of mine in which I said I want to be an employee driver. If you checked one of my earlier posts you'd see that I said that being a W2 driver probably wouldn't work for me.


I barely read your posts to begin with, so I’m not going to search… but your last post to me seems you view yourself as an employee, hence my reply post.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Since you want to be a driver/employee I can’t wait for you to come back here the day that happens with you complaining about forced 20 minute pickup times for a trip that will pay you maybe $4 for an additional 30 minute trip to a place there is no available pickups and you have to dead head back or even dead head further away for another forced pickup… all for minimum wage in your state.
> 
> By all means, please enjoy. To each their own.


Why do you have it in your head that every job in the world is terrible? There are many jobs that are better than being an Uber driver. There are many jobs that offer flexibility.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I barely read your posts to begin with, so I’m not going to search… but your last post to me seems you view yourself as an employee, hence my reply post.


The fact that I view myself as mostly W2 doesn't necessarily mean that's what I want. I'm merely stating the reality of the situation.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Qdx said:


> Why do you have it in your head that every job in the world is terrible? There are many jobs that are better than being an Uber driver. There are many jobs that offer flexibility.


Where did I ever say every job is terrible? 🤔


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> Yep. Uber drivers have much more in common with employees than independent contractors. Scheduling flexibility alone does not make drivers ICs.
> 
> From the Department of Labor Doc:
> 
> ...


Flexibility is a minor part of this. Choosing what ride you want to take is another. Do you think a Coke delivery driver picks the stores he wants to deliver to? Truckers that want the ability to turn down work are independent contractors.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Where did I ever say every job is terrible? 🤔


You said:

“I can’t wait for you to come back here the day that happens with you complaining about forced 20 minute pickup times for a trip that will pay you maybe $4 for an additional 30 minute trip to a place there is no available pickups and you have to dead head back or even dead head further away for another forced pickup… all for minimum wage in your state.”

However, paying your employees poorly and forcing them to do things that they don’t want to do means you will have a hiring and retention problem. You are assuming Uber has to be a bad employer because they are already treating us poorly as ICs.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> Flexibility is a minor part of this. Choosing what ride you want to take is another. Do you think a Coke delivery driver picks the stores he wants to deliver to? Truckers that want the ability to turn down work are independent contractors.


You’re creating a straw man. Simply because some workers lack the ability to make choices does not mean all workers lack the ability to make choices. There are plenty of employees who get to choose when they want to work or even work from home. There are employees who get to choose if they want to accept certain assignments or not.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> You’re creating a straw man. Simply because some workers lack the ability to make choices does not mean all workers lack the ability to make choices. There are plenty of employees who get to choose when they want to work or even work from home. There are employees who get to choose if they want to accept certain assignments or not.


I’m pointing out a real world example. Wtf are you talking about a a straw man? 

If Uber drivers were paid a set wage per hour and could turn down rides there are going to stranded pax…lol. Imaging that coke delivery driver being able to say, “I don’t deliver to the hood, now pay me my money” You guys are dreaming of a worker’s utopia.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Qdx said:


> You said:
> 
> “I can’t wait for you to come back here the day that happens with you complaining about forced 20 minute pickup times for a trip that will pay you maybe $4 for an additional 30 minute trip to a place there is no available pickups and you have to dead head back or even dead head further away for another forced pickup… all for minimum wage in your state.”
> 
> However, paying your employees poorly and forcing them to do things that they don’t want to do means you will have a hiring and retention problem. You are assuming Uber has to be a bad employer because they are already treating us poorly as ICs.


That was an example specific to one job, certainly not all jobs…

If someone agrees to what the job entails, and subsequently does that job, then such person has no right to complain about such job agreed to.

That being said, such person can always find a different job if they do not like their current job…


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> I’m pointing out a real world example. Wtf are you talking about a a straw man?
> 
> If Uber drivers were paid a set wage per hour and could turn down rides there are going to stranded pax…lol. Imaging that coke delivery driver being able to say, “I don’t deliver to the hood, now pay me my money” You guys are dreaming of a worker’s utopia.


Once again. There are plenty of jobs better than being an Uber driver. There are plenty of jobs that offer flexibility. How an employer treats its workers is based on their ability to retain a workforce.

Uber would have no incentive to treat drivers more poorly if they became employees because drivers would quit and Uber would go out of business.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> Once again. There are plenty of jobs better than being an Uber driver. There are plenty of jobs that offer flexibility. How an employer treats its workers is based on their ability to retain a workforce.
> 
> Uber would have no incentive to treat drivers more poorly if they became employees because drivers would quit and Uber would go out of business.


I don’t think you understand that they have an obligation to the money cow (the pax). Someone has to move the people to keep biz going. An employee is going to be told to get them or find another job.

I like picking what pax I want to deal with.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> I don’t think you understand that they have an obligation to the money cow (the pax). Someone has to move the people to keep biz going. An employee is going to be told to get them or find another job.


If Uber wants to retain a workforce of millions of part time drivers, the gig has to be desirable. If the gig becomes a lot more undesirable, then no one will sign up for the job. Uber forcing drivers to drive 20 minutes for $4 just because they are employees means they will go out of business.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> If Uber wants to retain a workforce of millions of part time drivers, the gig has to be desirable. If the gig becomes a lot more undesirable, then no one will sign up for the job. Uber forcing drivers to drive 20 minutes for $4 just because they are employees means they will go out of business.


Walk me thru how this would work. Let’s start with Joe Pax with a 3.9 rating orders a ride. He is 10 miles from you and you are the closest driver “on the clock”. How much does he pay for his 3 mile ride and how much do you make?


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> Walk me thru how this would work. Let’s start with Joe Pax with a 3.9 rating orders a ride. He is 10 miles from you and you are the closest driver “on the clock”. How much does he pay for his 3 mile ride and how much do you make?


If it’s still a commission based job where you are using your own vehicle, there is no reason for Uber to force you to take low commission assignments or undesirable assignments. They could try to, but that goes back to the hiring and retention problem.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rampage said:


> Walk me thru how this would work. Let’s start with Joe Pax with a 3.9 rating orders a ride. He is 10 miles from you and you are the closest driver “on the clock”. How much does he pay for his 3 mile ride and how much do you make?


As an employee I'm going ot make the following assumptions to fill in your question.

1. The customer is 10 miles 15 minutes away
2. You had 10 minutes since your last completed fare
3. you didn't get a tip.
4. You took the customer 3 miles 8 minutes.
5. The total time between your last fare and completing this fare was 40 minutes.

10 waiting for a ping
15 driving to the customer
10 driving the customer
5 minutes waiting for the customer

The miles driven is 13 miles, the total time is 40 minutes.

40 minutes at federal min wage is $4.83 (any state with a min wage over $7.25 would be higher than this figure, potentially as much as double)
13 miles is $7.47
The subtotal for the fare would be $12.30

The portion of that fare that is "taxable pay" would only be $4.83, the other $7.47 is non taxable expense reimbursement.



At current rates in my town this would pay out probobly $4.00, and with florida min wage it would pay out $14.80 instead of 12.30. California would pay out $17.47 because of teh higher min wage.

Given the long distance you had to go to the pickup it's not unreasonable to charge the customer a surge charge.

$15 to go 3 miles during what should be surge conditions.. That's not unreasonable.

And then your pay for the next ping starts from the moment your last ride ends. Because employee classifcation says your on call time is payable because of how short it is.


Employee classification would result in pay increases (before taxes) of 300% on very short pings and significantly over double.


Or they could just supply a company vehicle free of charge and pay $11.00 an hour for all the time your in the car minus a 30 minute lunch. That's perfectly acceptable to, as none of the gas/expenses would fall on you to pay for.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> As an employee I'm going ot make the following assumptions to fill in your question.
> 
> 1. The customer is 10 miles 15 minutes away
> 2. You had 10 minutes since your last completed fare
> ...


Sounds like paradise. 🥺


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> If it’s still a commission based job where you are using your own vehicle, there is no reason for Uber to force you to take low commission assignments or undesirable assignments. They could try to, but that goes back to the hiring and retention problem.


I wish you luck but thinking everything stays the same except you make more money is quite the dream.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> They created the xchange leasing program years ago


i was part of this, 2015 ford fusion se hybird $741 per mo.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> I wish you luck but thinking everything stays the same except you make more money is quite the dream.


I’m not saying that everything stays the same, but you’re approaching it with a “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it approach” when it is broken. 

Uber X drivers are not actual independent contractors if they don’t have the entrepreneurial and economic independence of someone who is in business for themselves. Black car drivers are the only ones that are true independent contractors because they are fully in business for themselves. They take on private clients. They are not pressured to complete quests or earn bonuses to make a livable wage. Their pay is not based on gamified exploitation of workers. 

Uber X drivers are just flex workers masquerading as ICs. They are not in business for themselves.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> I’m not saying that everything stays the same, but you’re approaching it with a “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it approach” when it is broken.
> 
> Uber X drivers are not actual independent contractors if they don’t have the entrepreneurial and economic independence of someone who is in business for themselves. Black car drivers are the only ones that are true independent contractors because they are fully in business for themselves. They take on private clients. They are not pressured to complete quests or earn bonuses to make a livable wage. Their pay is not based on gamified exploitation of workers.
> 
> Uber X drivers are just flex workers masquerading as ICs. They are not in business for themselves.


So, what changes? Btw, flex workers don’t chose which stops they want to make.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Or they could just supply a company vehicle free of charge and pay $11.00 an hour for all the time your in the car minus a 30 minute lunch. That's perfectly acceptable to, as none of the gas/expenses would fall on you to pay for.


8 to 10 hours would = $88 to $110 No Thanks, i do $200+ a day many times $250+ did a $310 day last Monday.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> So, what changes? Btw, flex workers don’t chose which stops they want to make.


Either X workers should be given more power to operate as an independent and entrepreneurial business entity (ability to set or negotiate pay, zero penalties related to acceptance rate, pay rate not tied quests, etc.) or they need to have the protections that employees are afforded. Also, most X drivers are not making more than minimum wage + tips when you subtract vehicle/gas expenses which would have to be reimbursed if they were properly classified as employees. 

Yes, they can. Once again, saying workers can’t do X,Y,Z suggests that you think that an employer can’t allow flexibility, which is false.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> Either X workers should be given more power to operate as an independent and entrepreneurial business entity (ability to set or negotiate pay, zero penalties related to acceptance rate, pay rate not tied quests, etc.) or they need to have the protections that employees are afforded. Also, most X drivers are not making more than minimum wage + tips when you subtract vehicle/gas expenses which would have to be reimbursed if they were properly classified as employees.
> 
> Yes, they can. Once again, saying workers can’t do X,Y,Z suggests that you think that an employer can’t allow flexibility, which is false.


Hope you get it and it works.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Qdx said:


> Either X workers should be given more power to operate as an independent and entrepreneurial business entity (ability to set or negotiate pay, zero penalties related to acceptance rate, pay rate not tied quests, etc.) or they need to have the protections that employees are afforded. Also, most X drivers are not making more than minimum wage + tips when you subtract vehicle/gas expenses which would have to be reimbursed if they were properly classified as employees.
> 
> Yes, they can. Once again, saying workers can’t do X,Y,Z suggests that you think that an employer can’t allow flexibility, which is false.


I say Bring It On I welcome it if it pays at least California minimum wage I'll give it a try,

Being a rideshare employee will mean very little if any at all Shenanigans by rideshare drivers, no more refusing people with Walkers and wheelchairs, no more as an example of my mother who had a 8:00 a.m. medical appointment driver pulls right up the door looks at her cancels and drives away,

No more people needing a 3:00 a.m. 4:00 a.m. appointment to get to the airport and drivers canceling right at the door at 3:00 a.m. and 4 a.m. no more shenanigans,

Had a 3:00 a.m. pickup in Hemet a few months ago wheelchair athlete, the kind of guy who looks like he could easily beat the crap out of most guys in a ground fight, guy was sitting in his wheelchair with a duffel bag by the curb almost looking like he's about to cry I got out of car and I asked what's wrong with you what's going on, he said he had three drivers pull up to him look at him and say they don't do Wheelchairs and drove off, this person needs very little assistance if any at all, all you do is push a button on his wheels take it off put the wheels in the trunk the wheelchair is small enough to easily fit in your front seat yes bring on employment no more shenanigans,

For years people talk crap about Taxi drivers, it is turning out that many Rideshare drivers are much worse, as a taxi driver dispatcher gave you a 4:00 a.m. pickup to take somebody to the airport and you showed up to the door and drove away good luck getting any good fares from that dispatcher not only that that dispatcher may Blacklist you among the other dispatchers and you'll be one of the ones thinking your DDS no longer works, are thinking that on a busy Friday Saturday night is actually very little business,

I'm actually thinking about going back to Bell cab, I only found out a few months ago they're still very much a thriving business they took over many of the corporate accounts that some of the other cab companies had around the area that went out of business.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Any one of y'all who know me from my past posts... Can probably tell my anger management is paying off.. numerous times on this post I have been baited into a argument and enticed to go back to my old ways...but as y'all see I have turned a new leaf 🙃


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> Any one of y'all who know me from my past posts... Can probably tell my anger management is paying off.. numerous times on this post I have been baited into a argument and enticed to go back to my old ways...but as y'all see I have turned a new leaf 🙃


12 step programs, brother. 😉😂


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Rampage said:


> 12 step programs, brother. 😉😂


I tap my forehead 3x take a deep breath hold it in for 10 seconds and exhale all the negative thoughts and energy and comments that I want to leave to the trolls


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> I tap my forehead 3x take a deep breath hold it in for 10 seconds and exhale all the negative thoughts and energy and comments that I want to leave to the trolls


Congrats on the self improvement. I’ll try it myself. The replies on here had me wanting to go on a shooting spree. 😂


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> Black car drivers are the only ones that are true independent contractors because they are fully in business for themselves. They take on private clients. They are not pressured to complete quests or earn bonuses to make a livable wage. Their pay is not based on gamified exploitation of workers.


I disagree with your comment that black car drivers are true independent contractors in their relationship with Uber. In my view they aren't.

The fact that they have private clients has no bearing on their relationship with Uber. Just like X drivers they're required to work under all of Uber's rules and rates. It doesn't matter if they have a million private clients, when they flip on their Uber app they become Uber grunts just like the rest of us.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> I disagree with your comment that black car drivers are true independent contractors in their relationship with Uber. In my view they aren't.
> 
> The fact that they have private clients has no bearing on their relationship with Uber. Just like X drivers they're required to work under all of Uber's rules and rates. It doesn't matter if they have a million private clients, when they flip on their Uber app they become Uber grunts just like the rest of us.


Well I agree that it is problematic that Black card drivers can’t set their rates, but independent contractor status isn’t based on one specific attribute in isolation, but on if there is more evidence for one status than the other. With X drivers, it’s very difficult to argue that they are actually in business for themselves…while a much stronger argument can be made for Black car drivers.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> Either X workers should be given more power to operate as an independent and entrepreneurial business entity (ability to set or negotiate pay, zero penalties related to acceptance rate, pay rate not tied quests, etc.) or they need to have the protections that employees are afforded. Also, most X drivers are not making more than minimum wage + tips when you subtract vehicle/gas expenses which would have to be reimbursed if they were properly classified as employees.
> 
> Yes, they can. Once again, saying workers can’t do X,Y,Z suggests that you think that an employer can’t allow flexibility, which is false.


The cold hard reality of the gig economy is that so long as Uber and the other gig companies continue to be paid by the customers they will be accountable to the customers, and because they're accountable to the customers they have to maintain some degree of control over the drivers. This means that gig drivers can never be and will never be true ICs in the gig economy unless the companies stop being paid by the customers.

HOWEVER, the drivers can be and should be much CLOSER to an actual IC than we are now. We can certainly have greater autonomy than we have now, we can certainly be treated better than we are now, we can certainly be paid better than we are now, and we can certainly have full transparency.

All of the above is doable while still allowing the companies to maintain enough control to protect their relationship with the customers.


----------



## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

Invisible said:


> If I’m wrong, please tell me that you get to set or negotiate your rates. You you also know the actual pick up address/drop-off at the ping & not just a partial pickup address or a map of the appropriate area but the full addresses. And then if you see a pax who you sense could be trouble and you cancel before he/she gets in your car, that if pax complains you denied him/her a ride because of race or sexual orientation, that you won’t get threatening messages of risk of deactivation. If those answers are no, then you are the only driver who gets this special treatment.
> 
> By you calling pax before you pick them up and telling them they must tip you for you to pick them up is extortion. Your time is ticking, and soon one pax is going to get you the Big D, deactivation.


Great post , all the things you pointed out are the reasons we are not true independent contractors, I dealt with contractors for 30 years, who were truly independent contractors .


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> The cold hard reality of the gig economy is that so long as Uber and the other gig companies continue to be paid by the customers they will be accountable to the customers, and because they're accountable to the customers they have to maintain some degree of control over the drivers. This means that gig drivers can never be and will never be true ICs in the gig economy unless the companies stop being paid by the customers.


From the Department of Labor Doc:

*The 2021 IC Rule provides that requiring the worker to comply with specific legal obligations, satisfy health and safety standards, carry insurance, meet contractually agreed upon deadlines or *_*quality control standards*_*, or satisfy other similar terms that are typical of contractual relationships between businesses (as opposed to employment relationships) does not constitute control.*

Uber and Lyft can treat drivers like real ICs and still require them to follow quality standards when it comes to dealing with customers. 



> HOWEVER, the drivers can be and should be much CLOSER to an actual IC than we are now. We can certainly have greater autonomy than we have now, we can certainly be treated better than we are now, we can certainly be paid better than we are now, and we can certainly have full transparency.
> 
> All of the above is doable while still allowing the companies to maintain enough control to protect their relationship with the customers.


Uber/Lyft simply need to make it more of a real B2B relationship instead of a “side hustle.” Marketing it as a side hustle allows Uber to treat drivers like non-serious business entities and to gamify labor compensation. If they treated driver like professional contractors or small business owners, then that would change the culture.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> It's like I'm a psychic...I had a feeling the boat was about to sink and I jumped ship...i gave Uber and Lyft the big D...now I do something nearly identical to rideshare but I never leave the airport and I drive someone else vehicle and they pay for gas and I receive atleast $100 in tips every night plus $100 in base pay... God is good 🙌 and I still have plenty of time to do other gigs...I'm going for $100k this year


I remember your thread about your new job doing the shuttle work, so that’s awesome you make that much in tips. Good job on deactivating U/L.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Rampage said:


> Flexibility is a minor part of this. Choosing what ride you want to take is another. Do you think a Coke delivery driver picks the stores he wants to deliver to? Truckers that want the ability to turn down work are independent contractors.


Difference is that Cole delivery drivers have protections gig workers don’t, like workers compensation if they get injured, unemployment if they lose job as long as it’s not for misconduct, sick/vacation days off with pay, using their employers vehicle and not incurring gas/repair expenses, etc.

And not every trucker who drives a tractor trailer (aka semi) is an IC. Many of those work for mega trucking companies. And the IC truckers do get to negotiate rates and decide where/when they’ll pickup. So no comparison to how gig companies treat drivers like employed, yet without any protections.

U/L is a taxi driver except with subpar rates. I’m not at all advocating that gig workers be employers. I’ve said many times on this forum that they truly need to be treated as IC’s, and there should be a cap on the percentage they take, none of this taking 60-85% of what the pax pays.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Emptynesst said:


> Great post , all the things you pointed out are the reasons we are not true independent contractors, I dealt with contractors for 30 years, who were truly independent contractors .


Thanks! I wish more drivers understood what being an IC should truly be like.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Invisible said:


> Difference is that Cole delivery drivers have protections gig workers don’t, like workers compensation if they get injured, unemployment if they lose job as long as it’s not for misconduct, sick/vacation days off with pay, using their employers vehicle and not incurring gas/repair expenses, etc.
> 
> And not every trucker who drives a tractor trailer (aka semi) is an IC. Many of those work for mega trucking companies. And the IC truckers do get to negotiate rates and decide where/when they’ll pickup. So no comparison to how gig companies treat drivers like employed, yet without any protections.
> 
> U/L is a taxi driver except with subpar rates. I’m not at all advocating that gig workers be employers. I’ve said many times on this forum that they truly need to be treated as IC’s, and there should be a cap on the percentage they take, none of this taking 60-85% of what the pax pays.


That’s the trade off. The Coke driver has a route to do as he is told to do it and at what time. He gets bennies with that.

Uber driver gets dick but comes and goes as he/she pleases. No bennies buteverytbing Is a trade off.

Isee where some improvements could be made with gig work but it’s not needed from Ubers point because of the dumb low bidders (people that take crappy pings)


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Rampage said:


> That’s the trade off. The Coke driver has a route to do as he is told to do it and at what time. He gets bennies with that.
> 
> Uber driver gets dick but comes and goes as he/she pleases. No bennies buteverytbing Is a trade off.
> 
> Isee where some improvements could be made with gig work but it’s not needed from Ubers point because of the dumb low bidders (people that take crappy pings)


Yes if more drivers didn’t accept those crappy pings, then they may raise pay. I still am in disbelief how low pay is now for both rideshare and Eats.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Invisible said:


> I remember your thread about your new job doing the shuttle work, so that’s awesome you make that much in tips. Good job on deactivating U/L.


Thx


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Invisible said:


> Yes if more drivers didn’t accept those crappy pings, then they may raise pay. I still am in disbelief how low pay is now for both rideshare and Eats.


I’m not surprised in the least. I sit there and watch crap on trip radar change to “accepted by another driver” all day. Its crazy.


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing gig work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when they're trying to run a plantation.


This means no more choices of ignoring a ping if we become an employee as that means Uber can fire the driver for ignoring a ping. The dangerous areas in cities that have pings will mean you'll have to force accept. Means no more incoming ping you'll just see the pax name and pickup location waiting for you.

Make sure to get your physical protections up,. Pizza delivery drivers conceal carry and so do FedEx drivers. Also get you spiritual/metaphysical protections up too so your higherself or God can prevent you getting a dangerous/deadly pax.

Ghetto area pickups will be forced on you for sure.

Eats drivers are at risk too. Delivery drivers in Minneapolis and Phillidelphia shot.









Delivery drivers on guard after delivery driver shot, robbed in Pittsburgh


Delivery drivers said a recent shooting that left a pizza delivery driver injured is a reminder of how dangerous the job can be.




www.cbsnews.com













Pizza delivery driver killed, 2 others robbed after being called to vacant Detroit home


Police are investigating after a pizza delivery driver was killed and two others were robbed outside a vacant Detroit home.




www.clickondetroit.com













Pa. police in gun battle shoot man suspected of killing FedEx worker


The suspect was transported to a hospital, where he remains in stable condition.




www.pennlive.com


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

What I am trying to figure out is why in the hell people spend so much time arguing and debating issues like this here. Even if you are 1000% right nothing you say or do here will affect anything one iota. 
Your time would be much better spent lobbying your congressmen and even city officials. 
Do you realize that cities can independently place requirements on the gig companies more restrictive than federal or state regulations? 
Lobbying city officials is much easier than effecting change on a state or federal level. Heck, you could even _become_ a city official.


----------



## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

I think the reason the states and local governments have allowed these Gig companies to run free and do what they want for so long is because they supply work to a large segment of the population that may not be suited to regular jobs do to temperament, language skills or just ageing out of the work force. In other words they want to keep these folks employed and not sitting at home waiting for their next EDD check. So the government may have felt that even though these companies skirt employment laws they were benefiting the economy and citizens more than they hurt it. Especially during the recession and pandemic. But now I think the opinion towards these companies in the way they treat their workers is coming under the microscope and politicians feel for what ever reason this is a good time to act. We will have to see what comes out of this. It maybe the government allows Gig workers to stay classified as independent but also passes laws that require these companies to make changes in the way they do business as to satisfy the employment law requirements the government feels are needed to protect the rights of the Gig workforce.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Antares said:


> This means no more choices of ignoring a ping if we become an employee as that means Uber can fire the driver for ignoring a ping. The dangerous areas in cities that have pings will mean you'll have to force accept. Means no more incoming ping you'll just see the pax name and pickup location waiting for you.
> 
> Make sure to get your physical protections up,. Pizza delivery drivers conceal carry and so do FedEx drivers. Also get you spiritual/metaphysical protections up too so your higherself or God can prevent you getting a dangerous/deadly pax.
> 
> ...


Black drivers will get the bulk of "ghetto" trips...trust me!!


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

REX HAVOC said:


> I think the reason the states and local governments have allowed these Gig companies to run free and do what they want for so long is because they supply work to a large segment of the population that may not be suited to regular jobs do to temperament, language skills or just ageing out of the work force. In other words they want to keep these folks employed and not sitting at home waiting for their next EDD check


And when all the automation AI robots machine self-driving cars stores with no people inside of it actually working what are those people going to do then, I hope I live another 20 to 40 years I want to see how all this is going to work out,

I now return your seats to there upright position.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> From the Department of Labor Doc:
> 
> *The 2021 IC Rule provides that requiring the worker to comply with specific legal obligations, satisfy health and safety standards, carry insurance, meet contractually agreed upon deadlines or *_*quality control standards*_*, or satisfy other similar terms that are typical of contractual relationships between businesses (as opposed to employment relationships) does not constitute control.*
> 
> Uber and Lyft can treat drivers like real ICs and still require them to follow quality standards when it comes to dealing with customers.


I disagree.

If you're a genuine IC business owner, no private individual or other non-govt entity should have the power to dictate how you run your business. If they do, you're their employee, not an IC. The only standards a true IC business owner adheres to is his/her own. In some cases the govt may dictate standards as well. 

Gig workers are not genuine ICs but we can certainly be closer to genuine ICs.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If you're a genuine IC business owner, no private individual or other non-govt entity should have the power to dictate how you run your business. If they do, you're their employee, not an IC. The only standards a true IC business owner adheres to is his/her own. In some cases the govt may dictate standards as well.
> 
> Gig workers are not genuine ICs but we can certainly be closer to genuine ICs.


That’s just not reality. You can dictate your own rules as an IC but no one has to accept you. I used to hire installer IC’s for the biz I sold a while back. i told them commonsense stuff like no smoking in customers property, they would have to fix any installation warranty work within 24 hrs of notice, I even told them they would be wearing a tshirt with my logo. If they said no…on to the next guy that wanted and deserved the work. The difficult IC’s get pushed out. Since they are independent they have no union or group to cry to. They do what they are told at the price that is offered or they can move on. I’m not saying I wasn’t fair, but it was my biz that supplied the work and I made rules.

I’m no fan of how Uber operates. I’d be happy to see them fall apart but saying you want independance without what comes with it is just dumb. Think this through.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rampage said:


> That’s just not reality. You can dictate your own rules as an IC but no one has to accept you. I used to hire installer IC’s for the biz I sold a while back. i told them commonsense stuff like no smoking in customers property, they would have to fix any installation warranty work within 24 hrs of notice, I even told them they would be wearing a tshirt with my logo. If they said no…on to the next guy that wanted and deserved the work. The difficult IC’s get pushed out. Since they are independent they have no union or group to cry to. They do what they are told at the price that is offered or they can move on. I’m not saying I wasn’t fair, but it was my biz that supplied the work and I made rules.
> 
> I’m no fan of how Uber operates. I’d be happy to see them fall apart but saying you want independance without what comes with it is just dumb. Think this through.


That may not be the reality but that's the way it should be. Lots of things such as the abolition of slavery weren't the reality for a long time but eventually they became the reality.

Those installers were closer to being employees than ICs.

You dictated multiple things to those alleged business owners. Even the logo on their shirts was dictated by you. I believe it's illegal for ICs to be required to wear company logos or uniforms.

Years ago I was a TRUE IC courier for three months. I was my own boss. I called the shots. I had two clients who were in need of temporary daily package deliveries. I set the terms and rates, NOT them. They didn't dictate anything to me. It was my small business and I ran it MY way. My contract with them was verbal but nevertheless it was my contract. 

There was no negotiation on rates although I may have been willing to negotiate if they had asked but they didn't.

I got burned the first day with time-consuming security and loading dock delays in DC. The next day I informed them that there would be a surcharge for all DC deliveries. They agreed with no issues. 

That's the way it is when you're running your own business.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> That may not be the reality but that's the way it should be. Lots of things such as the abolition of slavery weren't the reality for a long time but eventually they became the reality.
> 
> Those installers were closer to being employees than ICs.
> 
> ...


You’re telling me that they had to accept your rates because as an IC you have some kind of authority? That’s not how business works. As a biz owner, I had to market and sell. Sometimes they would go with someone else because of a lower price. That is reality. 

The guy I sold my biz to was my IC that originally came to me wanting to be just an employee. I showed him how to be an IC and how to work for my competition as well. That put me in a position of competing with my competitors on the cost of using his services but I went with a gut feeling. We had common goals.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rampage said:


> You’re telling me that they had to accept your rates because as an IC you have some kind of authority? That’s not how business works.


Yes, that's what I'm telling you. As a true IC/business owner of a very small business I had total "authority" of that business including the rates I charged. That's how it is when you're a genuine business owner.

You can't walk into Walmart or a Mercedes dealership or into a beauty salon and dictate how much they're going to charge you for their goods or services. It doesn't work that way in the business world when you're dealing with genuine business owners. You're free to take your business elsewhere but you can't dictate to business owners how they run their businesses including how much they charge for their goods and services.

Yet that's exactly what you did to your "business owners". You dictated a bunch of things, including the logos on their shirts. Even Uber doesn't dictate that. This is why I said that your installers were more like employees than IC business owners.

As far as W2 employees working for two or even three competing businesses simultaneously it's not that unusual.

When I delivered pizzas I worked for two competing pizza companies at the same time. A few drivers worked for three. All the companies knew about it and didn't complain. It's pretty common in the pizza and convenience store businesses. Did it make me an IC? Nope, I was a W2.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> Yes, that's what I'm telling you. As a true IC/business owner of a very small business I had total "authority" of that business including the rates I charged. That's how it is when you're a genuine business owner.
> 
> You can't walk into Walmart or a Mercedes dealership or into a beauty salon and dictate how much they're going to charge you for their goods or services. It doesn't work that way in the business world when you're dealing with genuine business owners. You're free to take your business elsewhere but you can't dictate to business owners how they run their businesses including how much they charge for their goods and services.
> 
> ...


You can dictate your fees all you want it doesn’t mean people have to pay it.

you guys crack me up with how you want independence and collective bargaining at the same time. You also want the flexibility of being a gig worker.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rampage said:


> You can dictate your fees all you want it doesn’t mean people have to pay it.


As I said in my previous post customers are free to take their business elsewhere.


Rampage said:


> you guys crack me up with how you want independence and collective bargaining at the same time. You also want the flexibility of being a gig worker.


Who's "you guys"? I haven't discussed collective bargaining but I'll say if it's done right it could be good for the drivers.

You can have independence, flexibility, and collective bargaining all at the same time.


----------



## laser1 (Jul 6, 2019)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing gig work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when they're trying to run a plantation.


You are about as senseless and brain dead as a person can be. If you choose to ruin your life by driving your auto around and accept slave pay then nobody is going to stop you including Joe Biden. Show a little self awareness you silly Trump supporter.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> As I said in my previous post customers are free to take their business elsewhere.
> 
> Who's "you guys"? I haven't discussed collective bargaining but I'll say if it's done right it could be good for the drivers.
> 
> You can have independence, flexibility, and collective bargaining all at the same time.


I used to think all this talk was based in laziness but now I understand it’s a lack of knowledge on how market forces work. You’ve said that you should be able to name your own price without considering all the other ants competing against you. The prices would actually come down.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> You can have independence, flexibility, and collective bargaining all at the same time.


Umm, aren’t independent and collective rather incompatible words?
i can’t imagine the "Union of Independent Drivers" being very functional. If you ask 100 drivers a question you will get 150 different answers.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> Umm, aren’t independent and collective rather incompatible words?
> i can’t imagine the "Union of Independent Drivers" being very functional. If you ask 100 drivers a question you will get 150 different answers.


Let's be honest here, Uber's own Prop 22 has helped blur the line between IC and employee. Uber and Lyft themselves have discussed the establishment of so-called driver councils that could negotiate (obviously Uber would make sure the councils are nothing more than puppets) but even so the very idea of alleged ICs getting together would have seemed radical previously.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

May H. said:


> Lack of independence is a false narrative. In other industries employees work flex hours. One doesn’t need to be an IC to choose their own schedule.


The specific hours remain fixed according to employer/business demands.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rampage said:


> I used to think all this talk was based in laziness but now I understand it’s a lack of knowledge on how market forces work. You’ve said that you should be able to name your own price without considering all the other ants competing against you. The prices would actually come down.


Just like with collective bargaining you're confusing me with someone else. I haven't been advocating "name your own price", instead I've been advocating that the govt regulate our pay rates like they've done in Seattle. The govt should also place a cap on the percentage of the gross revenue that Uber can take from our trips.

In know how free markets work but what we have in the gig economy is a rigged market. The govt continues to flood the US with Third World immigrants who flock to gig work and enable the gig companies to pay terrible rates. That's not a free market, it's a rigged market.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Let's be honest here, Uber's own Prop 22 has helped blur the line between IC and employee. Uber and Lyft themselves have discussed the establishment of so-called driver councils that could negotiate (obviously Uber would make sure the councils are nothing more puppets) but even so the very idea of alleged ICs getting together would have seemed radical previously.


One thing to clear up is that drivers are not ICs. Perhaps Sole Proprieter would be a better descriptor. 
I suspect something as simple as setting a meeting schedule would take a year or two to finalize.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Just like with collective bargaining you're confusing me with someone else. I haven't been advocating "name your own price", instead I've been advocating that the govt regulate our pay rates like they've done in Seattle. The govt should also place a cap on the percentage of the gross revenue that Uber can take from our trips.
> 
> In know how free markets work but what we have in the gig economy is a rigged market. The govt continues to flood the US with Third World immigrants who flock to gig work and enable the gig companies to pay terrible rates. That's not a free market, it's a rigged market.


I apologize if I replied to the wrong post. If so then Mea Culpa. 
So what you are saying is that instead of having a say in it you would rather the gubbmint just unilaterally set the benchmarks?


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> Just like with collective bargaining you're confusing me with someone else. I haven't been advocating "name your own price", instead I've been advocating that the govt regulate our pay rates like they've done in Seattle. The govt should also place a cap on the percentage of the gross revenue that Uber can take from our trips.
> 
> In know how free markets work but what we have in the gig economy is a rigged market. The govt continues to flood the US with Third World immigrants who flock to gig work and enable the gig companies to pay terrible rates. That's not a free market, it's a rigged market.


You know who is facilitating the influx of all those 3rd world migrants…yeah, the govt that you think will solve your problems. Have you ever pondered that? Lol.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> One thing to clear up is that drivers are not ICs. Perhaps Sole Proprieter would be a better descriptor.
> I suspect something as simple as setting a meeting schedule would take a year or two to finalize.


Sole proprietor? Most gig workers don't even know what an SP is.

Most gig workers think and behave like employees, not business owners.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> The day Rohit gets to appoint quota-assigned ghetto-gigs into hoodrat-infested shitholes is the day this ride is over.


They wouldn't send anyone to those neighborhoods because their (rideshare companies) insurers would refuse to pay claims on stolen (carjacked) and wrecked vehicles resulting from staged wrecks.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Rampage said:


> You know who is facilitating the influx of all those 3rd world migrants…yeah, the govt that you think will solve your problems. Have you ever pondered that? Lol.


Haven't you seen the shit hole (crooked politicians, cartels, organized crime networks, and overall weak gubment) countries they flee?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rampage said:


> You know who is facilitating the influx of all those 3rd world migrants…yeah, the govt that you think will solve your problems. Have you ever pondered that? Lol.


I'm not looking for the govt to solve our problems, I'm looking for the govt to clean up the mess they helped create with their immigration policy.

Since they're not gonna reform their immigration policy the least they can do is put a stop to the exploitation of gig workers. They have the power to do that and they should.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Sole proprietor? Most gig workers don't even know what an SP is.
> 
> Most gig workers think and behave like employees, not business owners.


You’re not wrong.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> I'm not looking for the govt to solve our problems, I'm looking for the govt to clean up the mess they helped create with their immigration policy.
> 
> Since they're not gonna reform their immigration policy the least they can do is put a stop to the exploitation of gig workers. They have the power to do that and they should.


Hmm.. not solve our problems, just clean up the mess and stop the exploitation…
Are you in public office? That sounds like double speak to me. Maybe even triple speak.


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> Black drivers will get the bulk of "ghetto" trips...trust me!!


So does Algo know the drivers are black based on the profile photo? I rarely get the ghetto pax or single Mamas. Most my pax 99.9% are white folks.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

I suspect that it is more a function of gangsteresque usernames rather than race. Perhaps if the people didn’t use names like ‘MethHedd’ or ‘9mm’ or ‘BadMoFo’ or ‘Killa’ or even ‘FockU’ (all of whom I have canceled on) they wouldn’t have such a hard time getting rides.
I don’t give a crap if a pax is purple. I do give a crap if a pax identifies as gangster. 
Antares racist rants are getting old.


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

They wont be able to get a ride because it will be just like old times with a cab and wait hours. Rideshare will have to up their rates


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

laser1 said:


> You are about as senseless and brain dead as a person can be. If you choose to ruin your life by driving your auto around and accept slave pay then nobody is going to stop you including Joe Biden. Show a little self awareness you silly Trump supporter.


I'm definitely not a trump supporter...


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Antares said:


> So does Algo know the drivers are black based on the profile photo? I rarely get the ghetto pax or single Mamas. Most my pax 99.9% are white folks.


When I do Lyft 95 percent of my pick ups are in the "hood"


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Yes, I’ve been to some. Oddly enough the have strict borders.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Atavar said:


> I suspect that it is more a function of gangsteresque usernames rather than race. Perhaps if the people didn’t use names like ‘MethHedd’ or ‘9mm’ or ‘BadMoFo’ or ‘Killa’ or even ‘FockU’ (all of whom I have canceled on) they wouldn’t have such a hard time getting rides.
> I don’t give a crap if a pax is purple. I do give a crap if a pax identifies as gangster.
> Antares racist rants are getting old.


Don't forget "killa"


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> Don't forget "killa"


I believe that was in my list, although capitalized.


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> When I do Lyft 95 percent of my pick ups are in the "hood"


Lyft has become hood. Lyfting in the Hood.


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> Don't forget "killa"


Killah and Guerilla


----------



## alvinrc123 (Dec 23, 2021)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing gig work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when they're trying to run a plantation.


Why does everybody have to make a policy change in the government or wherever a freaking political issue? The administration is trying to make sure that gig workers get benefits. That's what it's about! Get on board and get in the know! Plus you're playing a video of a men who USED TO have stock in Uber.
If you do want to make it a political issue let's talk about how there's only one party who believes in democracy and who has worked their asses off to get help for people, everyday regular folks including gig workers. (Democrats) and one party who is trying to destroy democracy in general, insights violence, has taken away a woman's right to choose and openly vows to take away ALL Medicaid, Social Security you name it, they want to quash those programs (RePUBICans). 
Let that's all also remember this is not a policy yet this is not even written in words yet it's just an idea of going through processes as usual. So everybody needs to get their underwears out their asses and their panties out of a wad! 
And if you decide not to pull out those wads out why don't you attack Uber or DoorDash or any delivery driver service companies who pay us crap with no benefits or the option to opt into something that's at least affordable. I looked into different insurances and things that different platforms want to entice you with however if you're not making much to begin with because they're not paying you, then why would you want an expensive plan that you can get from the ACA or your get on your spouse's Medical plan much cheaper.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

alvinrc123 said:


> Why does everybody have to make a policy change in the government or wherever a freaking political issue? The administration is trying to make sure that gig workers get benefits. That's what it's about! Get on board and get in the know! Plus you're playing a video of a men who USED TO have stock in Uber.
> If you do want to make it a political issue let's talk about how there's only one party who believes in democracy and who has worked their asses off to get help for people, everyday regular folks including gig workers. (Democrats) and one party who is trying to destroy democracy in general, insights violence, has taken away a woman's right to choose and openly vows to take away ALL Medicaid, Social Security you name it, they want to quash those programs (RePUBICans).
> Let that's all also remember this is not a policy yet this is not even written in words yet it's just an idea of going through processes as usual. So everybody needs to get their underwears out their asses and their panties out of a wad!
> And if you decide not to pull out those wads out why don't you attack Uber or DoorDash or any delivery driver service companies who pay us crap with no benefits or the option to opt into something that's at least affordable. I looked into different insurances and things that different platforms want to entice you with however if you're not making much to begin with because they're not paying you, then why would you want an expensive plan that you can get from the ACA or your get on your spouse's Medical plan much cheaper.


One party who literally said "I'm trying to find ways to force every one take the vaccine and I think the best way is to start going after their jobs" 
-sleep joe dirt biden


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Atavar said:


> I believe that was in my list, although capitalized.


My bad I some how over looked it


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

alvinrc123 said:


> Why does everybody have to make a policy change in the government or wherever a freaking political issue? The administration is trying to make sure that gig workers get benefits. That's what it's about! Get on board and get in the know! Plus you're playing a video of a men who USED TO have stock in Uber.
> If you do want to make it a political issue let's talk about how there's only one party who believes in democracy and who has worked their asses off to get help for people, everyday regular folks including gig workers. (Democrats) and one party who is trying to destroy democracy in general, insights violence, has taken away a woman's right to choose and openly vows to take away ALL Medicaid, Social Security you name it, they want to quash those programs (RePUBICans).
> Let that's all also remember this is not a policy yet this is not even written in words yet it's just an idea of going through processes as usual. So everybody needs to get their underwears out their asses and their panties out of a wad!
> And if you decide not to pull out those wads out why don't you attack Uber or DoorDash or any delivery driver service companies who pay us crap with no benefits or the option to opt into something that's at least affordable. I looked into different insurances and things that different platforms want to entice you with however if you're not making much to begin with because they're not paying you, then why would you want an expensive plan that you can get from the ACA or your get on your spouse's Medical plan much cheaper.


Edit: Hey @Ummm5487, I used your technique to calm down and erased my remark!


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> Umm, aren’t independent and collective rather incompatible words?
> i can’t imagine the "Union of Independent Drivers" being very functional. If you ask 100 drivers a question you will get 150 different answers.


Is the United Nations all one country? Individuals and groups can come together for common goals.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> What I am trying to figure out is why in the hell people spend so much time arguing and debating issues like this here. Even if you are 1000% right nothing you say or do here will affect anything one iota.
> Your time would be much better spent lobbying your congressmen and even city officials.
> Do you realize that cities can independently place requirements on the gig companies more restrictive than federal or state regulations?
> Lobbying city officials is much easier than effecting change on a state or federal level. Heck, you could even _become_ a city official.


Discussing a topic while killing time means that you should run for office instead? 😅


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> Is the United Nations all one country? Individuals and groups can come together for common goals.


Well one of the members goal is to have a nuclear war because he want to steal his neighbor's resources


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Rampage said:


> Edit: Hey @Ummm5487, I used your technique to calm down and erased my remark!


Congrats you have defeated the matrix 👍


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Uber's Guber said:


> *FIFY*
> Because if you think real employees get away with pulling the same shit'n-ass constant shenanigans that we pull on Uber/Lyft, then you've never had a real job.
> 
> Oh, don't be so dramatic. Rideshare gigging is a brainless no-skill lazy-ass gig, it will never be a "slave-labor" gig. The only skills required is the ability to open an app and grunt once in a while. My position is, _I_ get to choose _when & where _I decide grunt, should I even decide to turn the app on.
> The day Rohit gets to appoint quota-assigned ghetto-gigs into hoodrat-infested shitholes is the day this ride is over.


I would love to hear your opinion of black people 🤔


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If you're a genuine IC business owner, no private individual or other non-govt entity should have the power to dictate how you run your business. If they do, you're their employee, not an IC. The only standards a true IC business owner adheres to is his/her own. In some cases the govt may dictate standards as well.
> 
> Gig workers are not genuine ICs but we can certainly be closer to genuine ICs.


If we were true ICs, Uber can require that we comply with government regulations and meet certain quality standards of service, but they couldn’t micromanage and manipulate us like they do now.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

No, b


Qdx said:


> Discussing a topic while killing time means that you should run for office instead? 😅


No, but fluent doublespeak is an indicator.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Qdx said:


> If we were true ICs, Uber can require that we comply with government regulations and meet certain quality standards of service, but they couldn’t micromanage and manipulate us like they do now.


That depends on the class of contractor. Only federally regulated contractors have government oversight. Trivial (unlicensed) contractors like janitors, maids, estheticians etc are not subject to that oversight. My take is that we are more like Sole Service Proprietors than contractors. As it has been pointed out to me though, most drivers don’t even know what a proprietor is.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> My bad I some how over looked it


No worries. You’re good. It’s like Red Green says, "We’re all in this together"
Quando omni flunkus, moritati.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Man, when the government gives us all of this there are going to be so many people quitting their 9-5’s to be IC drivers with benefits, high pay, and freedom that pax won’t have to wait long at all for rides. Every person with a car will sign up. It’s going to be awesome! We will get paid to do a ride or two a day.

The govt is going to make them pay us regardless of saturation, right?


----------



## jllclaire (3 mo ago)

Uber's Guber said:


> You think Uber/Lyft is gonna just roll over and pay salaries & benefits while y’all continue to sit on your asses and pick & choose?
> You’ll be forced-dispatched driving ghetto bars and delivering ghetto orders at 2am.


I'm already doing that, while Uber screws me out of meeting the terms of a promotion by delaying approval of my updated vehicle registration on the last day... which they demanded I have today, even though it doesn't expire until Monday night at 11:59pm. Next.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

One other thing…since IC’s set their own fees what are you guys going with? I’m thinking $200 a ride. I have a kid still in private school and another that just started college.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> That depends on the class of contractor. Only federally regulated contractors have government oversight. Trivial (unlicensed) contractors like janitors, maids, estheticians etc are not subject to that oversight. My take is that we are more like Sole Service Proprietors than contractors. As it has been pointed out to me though, most drivers don’t even know what a proprietor is.


I meant that Uber can demand true ICs follow government regulations.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ummm5487 said:


> One party who literally said "I'm trying to find ways to force every one take the vaccine and I think the best way is to start going after their jobs"
> -sleep joe dirt biden


False.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> I apologize if I replied to the wrong post. If so then Mea Culpa.
> So what you are saying is that instead of having a say in it you would rather the gubbmint just unilaterally set the benchmarks?
> 
> View attachment 680917


What I'm saying is that in ABSENCE of drivers calling their own shots the way a true IC is supposed to, gig workers need the govt to step in and stop the exploitation of gig workers.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Qdx said:


> I meant that Uber can demand true ICs follow government regulations.


But we are not government licensed ICs so there are no regulations to follow


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Again, if we were truly IC business owners
> 
> What I'm saying is that in ABSENCE of drivers calling their own shots the way a true IC is supposed to, gig workers need the govt to step in and stop the exploitation of gig workers.


So you want to abandon any independence you have and let the gubmint tell you what to do?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> So you want to abandon any independence you have and let the gubmint tell you what to do?


I'm not advocating the govt telling us what to do, I'm advocating for the govt to REGULATE the gig companies.

First of all the "independence" of gig workers is very limited.

Most of the things that business owners take for granted including setting their terms, setting their rates, building a client/customer base for their business, running their business their way, not having info hidden from them, etc, we aren't allowed to have.

In light of how limited our independence is which in turn enables the gig companies to exploit gig workers, the govt needs to step and regulate the gig companies. If done correctly, govt regulations would result in MORE independence for the gig workers, not less.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> I'm not advocating the govt telling us what to do, I'm advocating for the govt to REGULATE the gig companies.
> 
> First of all the "independence" of gig workers is very limited.
> 
> ...


Nothing in life is free. Any regulation of the gig companies will come at a cost. If they control the gig companies then the gig companies will adjust how they deal with you so it comes out to be a net gain for them.
There is no scenario where more regulation equates to more independence.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> Nothing in life is free. Any regulation of the gig companies will come at a cost. If they control the gig companies then the gig companies will adjust how they deal with you so it comes out to be a net gain for them.


If done correctly, govt regulations would result in better pay and working conditions for gig workers which in turn would result in greater freedom/independence for gig workers.

Gig companies would not be able to make any "adjustments" that would result in a net gain for them at the expense of the drivers. Not when there's govt-mandated pay rates/ pay increases and govt-mandated caps on the percentage companies can take from each trip.




Atavar said:


> There is no scenario where more regulation equates to more independence.


Are you kidding? There's multiple scenarios including requiring companies to be transparent in their dealings with drivers. That alone would dramatically increase driver independence.

Another scenario is increased protection for drivers against unjust firings and punishments. The abolition of gig company kangaroo courts would certainly provide more freedom for the drivers. Drivers would no longer feel like they have to be doormats for entitled and abusive pax and customers in order to protect their jobs

Another is the freedom that comes with being paid well. The better that drivers are paid, the fewer hours they have to work and the more time they can spend with their families.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> If done correctly, govt regulations would result in better pay and working conditions for gig workers which in turn would result in greater freedom/independence for gig workers.
> 
> Gig companies would not be able to make any "adjustments" that would result in a net gain for them at the expense of the drivers. Not when there's govt-mandated pay rates/ pay increases and govt-mandated caps on the percentage companies can take from each trip.
> 
> ...


When have you known the government to actually act in favor of the common person over lobbyists and contributors. Politicians go where the money is.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> When have you known the government to actually act in favor of the common person over lobbyists and contributors. Politicians go where the money is.


Get ready for the “if it’s done right” line. Popularized by AOC and used extensively on this thread.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> When have you known the government to actually act in favor of the common person over lobbyists and contributors. Politicians go where the money is.


California.

CA, the home of Silicon Valley and all the zillions of lobbyists and the enormous political clout of Big Tech passed a law that Big Tech as well as many other industries were vigorously opposed to... AB5.

Who would have thought that the pols would go over the heads of the Silicon Valley/Big Tech tycoons and pass a law that the tycoons hated? But it happened.

Many environmental laws have been passed over the objections of powerful industries and their armies of lobbyists.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rampage said:


> Get ready for the “if it’s done right” line. Popularized by AOC and used extensively on this thread.


There are right ways and wrong ways to regulate the gig companies. NYC did it the wrong way by imposing limits on the number of rideshare vehicles allowed on city streets at any given time. That policy shuts drivers out of being able to work.

Washington state also passed new regulations on rideshare but unlike NYC there's no restrictions on the number of rideshare vehicles on the roads.

Washington's law isn't perfect but it's certainly a step in the right direction and is certainly better than NYC. Thus on balance it's an example of regulations done the "right way".


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Act II of govt intervention: drivers become the business owner bogeyman. Now they advocate for the pax which is a much larger voting block. In the name of equity you need to charge certain people or groups very little.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> California.
> 
> CA, the home of Silicon Valley and all the zillions of lobbyists and the enormous political clout of Big Tech passed a law that Big Tech as well as many other industries were vigorously opposed to... AB5.
> 
> ...


Lol. They went where the money was and increased taxation and regulation of _drivers_
From what I have heard here Cali drivers are not happy.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> Lol. They went where the money was and increased taxation and regulation of _drivers_
> From what I have heard here Cali drivers are not happy.


In my response to your previous post I listed examples that showed your post was in error.

Now you're trying to finesse your way out by pivoting your comments away from a pol's campaign war chest to the state coffers of California.

Sorry, but it ain't gonna work. You weren't talking about the state getting more tax revenue you were talking about pols getting campaign $$$ from lobbyists.


----------



## You'reaemployee (3 mo ago)

painfreepc said:


> 8 to 10 hours would = $88 to $110 No Thanks, i do $200+ a day many times $250+ did a $310 day last Monday.


310 a day. So you make 5000 to 6000 being a Uber driver now????? Ok thanks Uber mole.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> In my response to your previous post I listed examples that showed your post was in error.
> 
> Now you're trying to finesse your way out by pivoting your comments away from a pol's campaign war chest to the state coffers of California.
> 
> Sorry, but it ain't gonna work. You weren't talking about the state getting more tax revenue you were talking about pols getting campaign $$$ from lobbyists.


Ask the guys in Cali how that’s working out for them.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> What I'm saying is that in ABSENCE of drivers calling their own shots the way a true IC is supposed to, gig workers need the govt to step in and stop the exploitation of gig workers.


Or gig workers could be like adults and not work for companies that exploit them


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

😕


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

You'reaemployee said:


> 310 a day. So you make 5000 to 6000 being a Uber driver now????? Ok thanks Uber mole.


First of all I don't drive a lot of hours anymore, so no I don't do five thousand per month but I do average around $3,000 to 4,000 per month, I don't work a lot of hours anymore, if you can't do a thousand plus a week in Inland Empire driving the busy hours Monday through Friday and then working friday and Saturday night you need to park your car.


I don't work consistently long hours anymore every week, in fact there are some weeks I barely work at all so I don't have a lot to show you but here's a few, the first one I was only online for 23 hours and active for 15 hours that's almost $600 the second one I was online for 44 hours and only acted for 34 hours that's 1200 plus it shows you they do pay the proposition 22 thing


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> False.


A year later most will agree it was all a sham if not something more sinister


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> First of all I don't drive a lot of hours anymore, so no I don't do five thousand per month but I do average around $3,000 to 4,000 per month, I don't work a lot of hours anymore, if you can't do a thousand plus a week in Inland Empire driving the busy hours Monday through Friday and then working friday and Saturday night you need to park your car.
> 
> 
> I don't work consistently long hours anymore every week, in fact there are some weeks I barely work at all so I don't have a lot to show you but here's a few, the first one I was only online for 23 hours and active for 15 hours that's almost $600 the second one I was online for 44 hours and only acted for 34 hours that's 1200 plus it shows you they do pay the proposition 22 thing
> ...


I know from my experience out here and what I see, if I actually work the around 60 plus hours per week that I used to I could do $5,000 or a little less per month remember there are 4.33 weeks in a month not four $5,000 divided by 4.33 is only 1154 per week I know damn well I can do that.


----------



## JanetGraceMusic (Oct 18, 2021)

Rampage said:


> Congrats on the self improvement. I’ll try it myself. The replies on here had me wanting to go on a shooting spree. 😂


You need to read the room, Love. 
You can't even kid around like that. 
Don't be like the ninny that brings a cane to the airport, talking about: "What are they staring at me for? You'd think I was holding a PIPE BOMB."
Meanwhile, "Idiot" had been swinging the cane like a baton and catching it in mid-air. Damned straight security was looking!
That was right after the shoe bomber(another "idiot", attempting to light his shoe on fire while on an airplane in flight) said "shoe" contained items made to cause harm, let's say.
SO, I state again, You CANNOT be thinking that it is funny to declare; on a public platform, ANYTHING having to even remotely resemble doing harm by any means, to yourself and / or others -- unless; of course, you'd want to be the nxt doofus to be raided by LEO's. SMH. Silly Rabbit!! Delete that crap, please, for your own sake. 
✌


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

JanetGraceMusic said:


> You need to read the room, Love.
> You can't even kid around like that.
> Don't be like the ninny that brings a cane to the airport, talking about: "What are they staring at me for? You'd think I was holding a PIPE BOMB."
> Meanwhile, "Idiot" had been swinging the cane like a baton and catching it in mid-air. Damned straight security was looking!
> ...


No. I’m not going to cower to idiots that think I’m going to shoot people in a forum. How would that even be possible. Grow up, snowflake.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

This survey found that 77 percent of drivers say flexibility is more important than receiving benefits. In other words, drivers prefer flexibility over the benefits of employment by a margin of more than 3-to-1, and nearly 70% of drivers would quit if they had to take on a traditional employment role with Uber. https://ac32b1ba-8f5b-411f-91ab-b7a...d/ac32b1_1b6e5bdc853e466398779c53540ada0c.pdf


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

painfreepc said:


> First of all I don't drive a lot of hours anymore, so no I don't do five thousand per month but I do average around $3,000 to 4,000 per month, I don't work a lot of hours anymore, if you can't do a thousand plus a week in Inland Empire driving the busy hours Monday through Friday and then working friday and Saturday night you need to park your car.
> 
> 
> I don't work consistently long hours anymore every week, in fact there are some weeks I barely work at all so I don't have a lot to show you but here's a few, the first one I was only online for 23 hours and active for 15 hours that's almost $600 the second one I was online for 44 hours and only acted for 34 hours that's 1200 plus it shows you they do pay the proposition 22 thing
> ...


I have made nearly $500 on a Monday...the most I've made in a day was $700


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ummm5487 said:


> A year later most will agree it was all a sham if not something more sinister
> View attachment 681042


NYT headline doesn't say what you think it said.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Fact of the matter is that ICs have some level to negotatiate.

Fact of the matter is that If I called up the top person in uber Orlando and demanded an 8% increase on what I am paid to drive customers I wouldn't get anywhere, we have such little power that there isn't even anyone we can communicate with that has the power to do anything.

Right now i'm an indepdent sales rep that sells storm repair services. I write up estimates and get a % of every signed contract for services. That's what I do when there's bad storms. I worked hurricane IDA last year and joked about selling roof repair magic.



The owner of the company has paid for my dinner thrice in the last 2 weeks, and I've had him over to my house and served him deer steaks his kids swam in my pool.


We've had open and honest conversations about my pay scale and I'm satifisifed with the % I get.


That's an IC relationship. I set my schedule and get leads for sales, and I sell the heck out of the leads. I make my own hours, meet with customers and sell sell sell. This month I have 4-5 appointments a day and i've been writing up repair estimates for flood damaged homes in the Orlando area. By november i'll be down to 1 lead a week if i'm lucky. Most likely a lead on a broken pipe or a small ktichen fire, or something,

I don't NEED a union to negotiate dick.


However the only way I'd get anywhere negotiating with uber is if there was a union that could strike for higher wages.


Unions are needeed when you outnumber your employer _*yet have no power because you are easily replaceable by an idiot off the streets.*_

Fact of the matter is that any idiot can come drive uber and that's what we have, a bunch of new idiots coming in to replace the old idiots.


The IC relationship is best used when you have a fairly specialist role and have the power to directly negotiate with people who have power to make desicions.

Independent writers, creatives, accountants, tax preparers, A 1 man kitchen tile guy for instance is another good example. A dude who paints murals... etc.



I'm not saying that drivers CAN'T benifit from an IC role, i'm saying that uber is shitting all over us and s we'd be subsantially better off as employees.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> NYT headline doesn't say what you think it said.


Biden made so many similar comments I seen it for myself him said he's trying to come up with ways to force everyone to take this vaccine and he said he think the best way is to start taking away unvaccinated people jobs and it took the supreme Court to stop him from trying to do that... To me he committed treason he attacked his own Nation and he should get what comes with that


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

There’s a difference between stupidity and treason, but ok.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Atavar said:


> There’s a difference between stupidity and treason, but ok.


He sold us out to big pharma and I'll never forgive or forget


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Fact of the matter is that ICs have some level to negotatiate.
> 
> Fact of the matter is that If I called up the top person in uber Orlando and demanded an 8% increase on what I am paid to drive customers I wouldn't get anywhere, we have such little power that there isn't even anyone we can communicate with that has the power to do anything.
> 
> ...


What exactly is the leverage for negotiation when you admit drivers are replaceable?

And to make a point to those saying an IC can pick and chose…what would happen if you chose not to follow up on all the leads given to you?


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Or they could just supply a company vehicle free of charge


Where will Uber get the money to buy ~1 million cars?


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

May H. said:


> Lack of independence is a false narrative. In other industries employees work flex hours. One doesn’t need to be an IC to choose their own schedule.


How many companies offer flexible hours?
I bet it is less than 81%!

"*80 percent* of companies offer flexible work arrangements." 80% of Companies Offer Flexible Work Options.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Rampage said:


> What exactly is the leverage for negotiation when you admit drivers are replaceable?


What leverage do employee drivers have?


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Ummm5487 said:


> We don't want a system where we have to pick time slots like doordash cuz all the time slots are going to always be occupied


Well, you are in luck.
While Uber has said that employee drivers would require a 76% reduction in drivers and schedules, just look at what happened where drivers were made employees. No major changes. Not much good or bad.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Invisible said:


> They need to focus on regulating IC’s to have them treated like IC’s with full transparency, showing pickup/dropoff locations, showing pay when pings come and not penalizing drivers for not accepting pings. They also need to regulate how deactivations are done, many unjust.
> 
> Making IC’s employees is not the way to go. Also what should be regulated is the percentage these gig companies take. I’ve seen them take as much as 85% on this forum.


How better to make Uber treat us like ICs than the threat of making us employees if they do not treat us like ICs!
I love the idea of limiting the percent Uber takes. Then Uber would have an incentive to increase our pay.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> It's depressing how some people like to argue no matter what... I didn't put this here to argue with people back and forth about irrelevant nuances... I was just spreading the news its a chance things are about to change... Like you said we're free to work or not we're free to take breaks whenever we want to.. we're free to work however long we want to... But yet some losers are going to come here and argue about if we're free or not.. people get more and more annoying day by day


Why is it that ever time someone disagrees with something or has a different viewpoint they are accused of arguing? The last time I checked for mature individuals it is viewed as having a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? To share opinions and views and let the readers make their own conclusion? Or has it now become this is what I think and it should be ruled as law and if anyone disagrees with it or corrects a blatantly false statement they are arguing? Wow.


----------



## karkar2000 (4 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> As an employee I'm going ot make the following assumptions to fill in your question.
> 
> 1. The customer is 10 miles 15 minutes away
> 2. You had 10 minutes since your last completed fare
> ...


Minimum wage in Los Angeles is $17


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> That's how Fedex Ground works but it's doubtful that it could work for rideshare and food delivery due to the high volatility of our business.
> 
> It seems to me that if it was doable the gig companies would have done it by now. They despise the drivers and would love to be able to offload their "headache" onto a third party. Apparently potential third party companies don't believe it would be profitable for them to do it.


I agree I don't see that as being a possibility. It would probably be worse for drivers. Uber would still want to maximize their profits and the third party company obviously would not work for charity. Just not enough profit margin for two companies to squeeze out and would leave the driver with nothing. It's just easier for Uber to have individuals ride across town for pennies and keep all the profit to themselves. They have an unlimited supply of dummies which is why they fight so hard against the employee status.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Why is it that ever time someone disagrees with something or has a different viewpoint they are accused of arguing? The last time I checked for mature individuals it is viewed as having a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? To share opinions and views and let the readers make their own conclusion? Or has it now become this is what I think and it should be ruled as law and if anyone disagrees with it or corrects a blatantly false statement they are arguing? Wow.


So if I say we don't want to time slot system like doordash because all the time slots are always taken and someone comes in and say "doordash or independent contractors to so your little strawman argument just fell apart".... That's someone disagreeing with me or is that someone trying to pick a argument with me


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> But we are not government licensed ICs so there are no regulations to follow


I’m not talking about regulation specific to being an independent contractor, but regulations specific the task being performed…such as making sure drivers comply with the ADA, airport rules, etc.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Antares said:


> So does Algo know the drivers are black based on the profile photo? I rarely get the ghetto pax or single Mamas. Most my pax 99.9% are white folks.


That's cause you are so good looking 
not because of your skin color
See now I look like a porcupines ass
and about 1/2 riders are black
I drive where and when the surges are
Just so happens many of those areas have 
higher percentages of people of color
I dont ever shut that app off because of 
where I am or who I might pick up
The only color I care about is green 😉


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> Or gig workers could be like adults and not work for companies that exploit them


What an idiotic post. People need jobs, there will always be exploitative employers. That’s why labor laws exist.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Rampage said:


> One other thing…since IC’s set their own fees what are you guys going with? I’m thinking $200 a ride. I have a kid still in private school and another that just started college.


This is going to drive the price of a hooker
out of even @GuidoTheKillerPimp budget


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ummm5487 said:


> Or gig workers could be like adults and not work for companies that exploit them


Your hypocritical comment comes from a guy who for two years repeatedly complained he was being discriminated against but kept driving for them anyway...


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> Your hypocritical comment comes from a guy who for two years repeatedly complained he was being discriminated against but kept driving for them anyway...


It’s pretty comical to see people act like being an Uber driver is better than any job in the world when a very large share of drivers have poverty level income after subtracting expenses.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> What an idiotic post. People need jobs, there will always be exploitative employers. That’s why labor laws exist.


For two years he's been accusing Uber and Lyft of racially discriminating against him because he's black and yet he continued to drive for them. 

Now that he's finally quit he's hypocritically lecturing others against playing the victim.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> What an idiotic post. People need jobs, there will always be exploitative employers. That’s why labor laws exist.


I have enough respect for myself to never let myself get exploited... I'll sleep in the woods before I let someone disrespect me or exploit me.. Like I recently told someone if you didn't want to get the jab.. but you got it to keep your job you would basically give your boss man a blowy if it came down to it....not i


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> For two years he's been accusing Uber and Lyft of racially discriminating against him because he's black and yet he continued to drive for them.
> 
> Now that he's finally quit he's hypocritically lecturing others against playing the victim.


But the money was still green and the money was still good but I know it's a coincidence that today nine out of 10 of my passengers have been black and the one that was white was a white lady named Tamara... I know it's all in my head I'm dumb and stupid with a low IQ for thinking my passengers are sent to me based off race... But that's still not being exploited I don't know what you would call it but it's not exploited maybe discrimination... Its exploitation when they tried to send me on a hundred mile trip last night for $27 but the fact that I didn't take it was me not letting them exploit me... And I didn't quit I just got a real job to go along with this gig so when I say I made $1,300 I can really mean I made 1200 instead I made 950... This is chess not checkers😉


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Your hypocritical comment comes from a guy who for two years repeatedly complained he was being discriminated against but kept driving for them anyway...


I wasn't necessarily complaining cuz I prefer to pick up people of color I was just stating a sad reality.. but I also know they started doing that in response to the fact that white people was out here one starring people just were having color in their skin and Uber got sued for that it was ordered to pay out millions of dollars... But I saw an update on the case and a judge just recently overturned it... I'm not going to go back to my old ways but I will say really running a risk getting reported about the most silliest stuff picking up a certain demographic I will bet you 90% of all the wrongful deactivation for customer complaints have come from that certain demographic


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> I have enough respect for myself to never let myself get exploited... I'll sleep in the woods before I let someone disrespect me or exploit me.. Like I recently told someone if you didn't want to get the jab.. but you got it to keep your job you would basically give your boss man a blowy if it came down to it....not i


You simply don’t understand the nature of exploitation. 

Workers need to earn a living and don’t have unlimited options. So they may work for an employer that exploits them because working for that employer is better than not earning money that need to live. This does not mean that if the employer is doing things that are unethical or illegal, that the government shouldn’t do anything. The employer’s illegal exploitation of the worker still harms the worker long term and it would put the employer’s competition at a competitive disadvantage if they don’t also unethically and illegally exploit their workers.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> You simply don’t understand the nature of exploitation.
> 
> Workers need to earn a living and don’t have unlimited options. So they may work for an employer that exploits them because working for that employer is better than not earning money that need to live. This does not mean that if the employer is doing things that are unethical or illegal, that the government shouldn’t do anything. The employer’s illegal exploitation of the worker still harms the worker long term and it would put the employer’s competition at a competitive disadvantage if they don’t also unethically and illegally exploit their workers.


I'm black in America and don't understand exploitation 🤣🤣🤣...like telling a 60 year old Iraqi he don't understand war


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> I'm black in America and don't understand exploitation 🤣🤣🤣...like telling a 60 year old Iraqi he don't understand war


What race do you think I am? You clearly don’t understand that workers can’t just say “I’m not going to be exploited.”

Workers choose the best option they have at the time. Many workers choose Uber because there’s no barrier to entry, Uber pays instantly and it offers scheduling flexibility. That does not mean that Uber doesn’t exploit drivers or that they should be allowed to.


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Un


25rides7daysaweek said:


> That's cause you are so good looking
> not because of your skin color
> See now I look like a porcupines ass
> and about 1/2 riders are black
> ...


 In my market ghetto pick ups are dangerous. Many Somali taxis and Ubers were killed or carjacked


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Antares said:


> Un
> 
> In my market ghetto pick ups are dangerous. Many Somali taxis and Ubers were killed or carjacked


Is your market in the Dr


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> What race do you think I am? You clearly don’t understand that workers can’t just say “I’m not going to be exploited.”
> 
> Workers choose the best option they have at the time. Many workers choose Uber because there’s no barrier to entry, Uber pays instantly and it offers scheduling flexibility. That does not mean that Uber doesn’t exploit drivers or that they should be allowed to.


Is some things that's a deal-breaker for me and we don't have to take bad trips they tell us how far a trip is how much we're going to get paid before we accept it and there's no repercussions for not accepting it.. and believe it or not the people at the call center in India our controlling what we get paid per trip they sit back and laugh and giggle and how much control they got over us when they're over there in what's supposed to be a third world country... I actually had one on the phone laughing and giggling saying you silly Americans think y'all better than us but yet we got control over your income... I spent a whole week calling them screaming at them about the low fares they were sending me for these long trips every time I called them immediately afterwards I was getting paid what I should get paid for the rest of the day and then the next morning wake up to the same BS more 20 mile trips for $6 but I have declined enough for them we're now a lot of my trips I'm getting like $2 a mile because I refuse to be exploited... I have had jobs where I felt like I wasn't getting treated right on my lunch break I got in my car went home and never came back and never gave them an explanation.. one thing I don't tolerate is disrespect under any circumstances for any reason


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Antares said:


> Un
> 
> In my market ghetto pick ups are dangerous. Many Somali taxis and Ubers were killed or carjacked


Yea well you know just being in the car travelling at speed like many of us do is just inherently dangerous to begin with. I mentioned maybe getting additional life insurance because there was some junk mail
My wife said she was kinda upset by that
Hey my daughter had a rock and crystal collection 
I was wondering what those rocks you had were?
Just so I could maybe like have her close to me
I put a ring she was wearing on a chain I wear 😕
I think one was tiger eye topaz maybe turquoise too?


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Qdx said:


> I’m not talking about regulation specific to being an independent contractor, but regulations specific the task being performed…such as making sure drivers comply with the ADA, airport rules, etc.


The gubmint doesn’t have time to pass legislation for each job description in the country. They can only handle broad descriptions.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> I wasn't necessarily complaining cuz I prefer to pick up people of color I was just stating a sad reality.. but I also know they started doing that in response to the fact that white people was out here one starring people just were having color in their skin and Uber got sued for that it was ordered to pay out millions of dollars... But I saw an update on the case and a judge just recently overturned it... I'm not going to go back to my old ways but I will say really running a risk getting reported about the most silliest stuff picking up a certain demographic I will bet you 90% of all the wrongful deactivation for customer complaints have come from that certain demographic


The only three drivers I personally know that were deactivated for malicious complaints were white Anglo saxons. I know probably only a handful of white and a handful of color drivers so it’s a small sample. 
I do find it interesting that living in an area where the population is probably 40% Native Americans I don’t know any native drivers. Maybe they’re smarter than the rest of us.


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Yea well you know just being in the car travelling at speed like many of us do is just inherently dangerous to begin with. I mentioned maybe getting additional life insurance because there was some junk mail
> My wife said she was kinda upset by that
> Hey my daughter had a rock and crystal collection
> I was wondering what those rocks you had were?
> ...


I don't discriminate against pax but I do discriminate on areas I pickup.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Atavar said:


> The only three drivers I personally know that were deactivated for malicious complaints were white Anglo saxons. I know probably only a handful of white and a handful of color drivers so it’s a small sample.
> I do find it interesting that living in an area where the population is probably 40% Native Americans I don’t know any native drivers. Maybe they’re smarter than the rest of us.


I caught on early on... I was almost deactivated I was about 1 3 star or less away from being deactivated... But I can't say it's all white people that was doing that the black women are heavy on the one Stars too... I knew this one black lady who said every time a female pick her husband up to go to work she made sure her husband give them a one-star so they won't be back to pick him up again and her and her husband thought that was the funniest thing... And I kind of chuckle along with them but deep down I'm thinking you can really make people lose their livelihood by playing these little elementary School games Uber sued by non-white drivers alleging race-biased ratings lead to firings


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> So if I say we don't want to time slot system like doordash because all the time slots are always taken and someone comes in and say "doordash or independent contractors to so your little strawman argument just fell apart".... That's someone disagreeing with me or is that someone trying to pick a argument with me


It is however you choose to perceive it. Yes there are some folks who have nothing better to do than nit pick everything but many may just be offering another way to look at a particular situation. I have honestly had a few folks change my mind on certain topics because I never considered looking at it that particular way. There is no excuse to provoke an argument but every point made that is not super friendly doesn't necessarily have to be taken as a challenge.


----------



## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> False.


False !


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Wil Mette said:


> How better to make Uber treat us like ICs than the threat of making us employees if they do not treat us like ICs!
> I love the idea of limiting the percent Uber takes. Then Uber would have an incentive to increase our pay.


Yes and Uber would be forced to pay fair pay. I’ve read on here from the drivers, who drove back in 2014, Uber only took 20% of the fare.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rampage said:


> What exactly is the leverage for negotiation when you admit drivers are replaceable?


We don't, that's my point.




Rampage said:


> And to make a point to those saying an IC can pick and chose…what would happen if you chose not to follow up on all the leads given to you?



I've not sold work to several of my leads.

One this week was a little old lady who was told by a door to door asshole _Salesman_ that she needed a new roof.

I've also had some leads where I walked when the customer was being a prick on pricing and demanding the world for not enough funds.




karkar2000 said:


> Minimum wage in Los Angeles is $17


I'll correct it shorty, I forgot that some cities in Cali had higher min wage.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Yes and Uber would be forced to pay a fare pay. I’ve read on here from the drivers, who drove back in 2014, Uber only took 20% of the fare.


The funny thing about Uber is that whatever is logical they will do the opposite. If they were ever forced to cap their take to say like 25%, instead of raising passenger fares to a reasonable amount to boost their profits I could see them cutting fares in half. Their twisted logic is that cheaper prices means more passengers so more profit in bulk rides. Drivers would have to give twice as many rides to make the same amount. It would just be a race to the bottom. Basically just offer all the public bus passengers $5 rides and the streets will be flooded with ride requests. Maybe I give them too much credit. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> The funny thing about Uber is that whatever is logical they will do the opposite. If they were ever forced to cap their take to say like 25%, instead of raising passenger fares to a reasonable amount to boost their profits I could see them cutting fares in half. Their twisted logic is that cheaper prices means more passengers so more profit in bulk rides. Drivers would have to give twice as many rides to make the same amount. It would just be a race to the bottom. Basically just offer all the public bus passengers $5 rides and the streets will be flooded with ride requests. Maybe I give them too much credit. 🤷‍♂️


Uber has no logic. The higher executives must be stoned or drunk a lot.

This week on the radio, I heard the DJ’s talk about how Uber is doing autonomous vehicles and robot delivery in certain markets because it’ll lower customer prices. If customers demand such low rates, they can get a car, take a subway, get a bicycle or walk.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> We don't, that's my point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know you won’t close every lead. Some just aren’t qualified. I was talking about not even initiating the sales process. I used to be a sales manager at a place that did certain types of cosmetic procedures. Very expensive stuff but I didn’t want to hear, “they came here on the bus I’m not going to even try”. They would have been fired.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rampage said:


> I know you won’t close every lead. Some just aren’t qualified. I was talking about not even initiating the sales process. I used to be a sales manager at a place that did certain types of cosmetic procedures. Very expensive stuff but I didn’t want to hear, “they came here on the bus I’m not going to even try”. They would have been fired.


I got my 2% on one that was $1850 worth of damage from a leaky window today lol.

I was there maybe 45 minutes and wrote her up the estimate. She ended up canceling the appointment with the insurance adjuster because if "the shady salesman could only find $1850 worth of damage there's no way the insurance adjuster will find $5,000"

I also patched her drywall under the window, recaulk her window, replace a little bit of insulation Talked her into replacing the carpet in one room instead of just the water damaged portion.
Getting her to replace the carpet in the entire room is a much better option, It upped my commission from $30 all the _way to $37_.

Minor leak in a window that got rained on extremely hard... nothing real super major honestly, replacing the carpet is the biggest thing.


I actually got way more than the sales comission because I did the repairs on the window while I was there. Got $100 out of the repair budget to knock the window leak out for the little old lady. I also did some of the demo work and ripped out the wet drywall and insulation because it was already starting to smell. (I also kinda punched a bunch of holes in it probing to check the insulation).


That's how I made lemonade out of lemons.



It was a rarity, most have been substantially worse, or zero damage at all.


Some leads I didn't even try to close, because they didn't have a damned BIT of damage, just shady ass MOFOS trying to get people to waste money on "repairs" they don't need. usually old people who couldn't see their roof it was on fire. A few people who would rather do the work themselves.

I also had quite a few who were getting estimates from other people, and more still who want to wait for their insurance check before they start.


Last year for hurricane Ida I had customers "close" the deal up to 2 months after I got back to Orlando.



And in your case you never know, they might have come on the bus because they know they wouldn't be able to safely drive home after a procedure.


And just because somone is dirt poor doesn't mean that someone doesn't have one heck of a check from an insurance company to do the cosmetic procedure.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> I know you won’t close every lead. Some just aren’t qualified. I was talking about not even initiating the sales process. I used to be a sales manager at a place that did certain types of cosmetic procedures. Very expensive stuff but I didn’t want to hear, “they came here on the bus I’m not going to even try”. They would have been fired.


An employer is only going to do what they can get away with while retaining their workforce. Although driving for Uber doesn’t require skilled labor, you are still getting people to use their own vehicles. Unless Uber buys a nationwide fleet of vehicles, it’s not going to be possible for them to service rider demand if they become a very undesirable company to work for.

Beyond that, workers could unionize.

I don’t really want it to go that route, but if we are to keep the IC classification, Uber has to allow drivers to actually operate like real independent contractors.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Uber has no logic. The higher executives must be stoned or drunk a lot.
> 
> This week on the radio, I heard the DJ’s talk about how Uber is doing autonomous vehicles and robot delivery in certain markets because it’ll lower customer prices. If customers demand such low rates, they can get a car, take a subway, get a bicycle or walk.


I thought they got out of the self driving cars business? Do they still have a small stake in the autonomous car industry? I sure as hell hope not. Anything they touch turns sour.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Qdx said:


> An employer is only going to do what they can get away with while retaining their workforce. Although driving for Uber doesn’t require skilled labor, you are still getting people to use their own vehicles. Unless Uber buys a nationwide fleet of vehicles, it’s not going to be possible for them to service rider demand if they become a very undesirable company to work for.
> 
> Beyond that, workers could unionize.
> 
> I don’t really want it to go that route, but if we are to keep the IC classification, Uber has to allow drivers to actually operate like real independent contractors.



Only consistent thing with uber is ever falling rates.

I used to get over $1.00 a mile base rates with nightly $100+ surge fares.

Now we're at 53c a mile with $5.00 surges...



Eventually rates are going to get so bad you're going to quit.

Then the idiots who replace you who make a fraction of what you do can be the ones who unionize and get hourly + 57c a mile.


I'm perfectly OK with that.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Only consistent thing with uber is ever falling rates.
> 
> I used to get over $1.00 a mile base rates with nightly $100+ surge fares.
> 
> ...


I honestly think Uber is trying experiment with how low rates could possibly go before enough people say enough is enough. I truly believe they have enough drivers that will drive until it reaches zero pay. As long as there is a pool of desperate drivers who continue to turn on the app their predatory behavior will never end without government intervention. The problem is that government intervention will fix one problem and create another all with the stroke of a pen.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> This week on the radio, I heard the DJ’s talk about how Uber is doing autonomous vehicles and robot delivery in certain markets because it’ll lower customer prices. If customers demand such low rates, they can get a car, take a subway, get a bicycle or walk.











Expanding Walmart’s Market Fulfillment Center Capabilities Through Automation 


We are committed to exceeding customers’ expectations and serving them in new ways, whether it’s in a store, curbside or at their homes. For years, we have been making big investments in technology and infrastructure across our supply chain to test and learn where we can make the biggest difference…




corporate.walmart.com


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ummm5487 said:


> he committed treason


🤣


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Only consistent thing with uber is ever falling rates.
> 
> I used to get over $1.00 a mile base rates with nightly $100+ surge fares.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the fact that Uber can constantly slash pay and drivers have to just accept without any means of negotiation shows the economic dependence and is evidence of employee status.

Being able to multi-app isn’t the same thing as being a freelancer…drivers are just switching between billion dollar bosses. Why is Uber charging drivers a service fee if Uber does not actually serve the driver?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I used to get over $1.00 a mile


Not again!









Origins of the $1/mile minimum acceptance criteria


What are the real origins of the oft-repeated $1/mile minimum acceptance criteria? Like who started it (like an old timer taxi driver)? What year did it start getting air play? Does it predate Uber in the earliest US cities? My goal is >$1/mile average gross revenue for all miles (empty...




www.uberpeople.net












Complaints about Gross Revenue per (odometer) Mile


Why do some rideshare drivers complain about any gross revenue per mile that's under $1.00 USD? Also, what's magical about $1.00? They've been bleating and parroting this "$1 per mile" phrase since Barack was in office and well before everyone was talking about post-pandemic recovery inflation...




www.uberpeople.net


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> With X drivers, it’s very difficult to argue that they are actually in business for themselves…while a much stronger argument can be made for Black car drivers.


As I stated earlier, Uber Black/SUV drivers are under Uber's control every bit as much as X drivers if not more so. In order to keep their Black Car status they have to maintain higher ratings than X drivers.

The fact that they may have private clients doesn't make the IC argument any stronger for them than it does for X drivers.

X drivers can also have private clients if they have the correct insurance.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> As I stated earlier, Uber Black/SUV drivers are under Uber's control every bit as much as X drivers if not more so. In order to keep their Black Car status they have to maintain higher ratings than X drivers.
> 
> The fact that they may have private clients doesn't make the IC argument any stronger for them than it does for X drivers.
> 
> X drivers can also have private clients if they have the correct insurance.


It’s not about if X drivers “can” have their own insurance… what’s more relevant is do they have their own independent profession *generally* as it relates to Uber.

If you hire an accountant and give the accountant set pay, the government will recognize that the accountant has an independent profession. Black drivers being licensed and accepting private clients shows a level of independence that X drivers generally do not have.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I thought they got out of the self driving cars business? Do they still have a small stake in the autonomous car industry? I sure as hell hope not. Anything they touch turns sour.


That’s what I thought, too and was surprised to hear that. So I don’t know.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I honestly think Uber is trying experiment with how low rates could possibly go before enough people say enough is enough. I truly believe they have enough drivers that will drive until it reaches zero pay. As long as there is a pool of desperate drivers who continue to turn on the app their predatory behavior will never end without government intervention. The problem is that government intervention will fix one problem and create another all with the stroke of a pen.


Yes, too many drivers accepting the low pay.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> It’s not about if X drivers “can” have their own insurance… what’s more relevant is do they have their own independent profession *generally* as it relates to Uber.
> 
> If you hire an accountant and give the accountant set pay, the government will recognize that the accountant has an independent profession. Black drivers being licensed and accepting private clients shows a level of independence that X drivers generally do not have.


The existence of private clients outside of Uber has no bearing whatsoever on a driver's relationship with Uber. Zero, zip, nada. That person is no closer to being a "true" IC than your run of the mill X driver.

When an Uber Black driver with outside clients flips on his Uber app he's a grunt like everybody else, subject to all of Uber's rules and terms. He's no more of an IC than you or anyone else. The only "independence" he may have is more money in the bank than your run of the mill X driver.

A part-time X driver who does Uber strictly for fun money, has a high-paying "regular job" and plenty of money in the bank has a much greater level of "independence" than a full-time X driver whose sole income is Uber.


----------



## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> *Comment and a short bio about me*
> 
> As someone who work for GATX/ American President line as a shipping clerk for about 7 years place was open 24/7 even from the beginning I never understood why the workers on the floor had to work fixed hours basically everything they was doing that day was being prepared to go out the next day or the day after what was stopping anyone for being able to work a split shift are only work part-time and someone else have their other half of their part-time I never understood that, I actually actually talked about it one day to one of the supervisors he said that would never work it would never fly whatever,
> 
> The reason I brought it up to a supervisor was because the warehouse had a very strict attendance policy based on a point system of seven, if you were late by even one minute you got 1/2 point, if you were late by more than one minute to 2 hours you got one point if you were more than 2 hours late you got two points which was considered as a no-show even though you may have worked your 6 hours being 2 hours and 1 minute late went on your record is not being there, one point only came off every 90 days, at Five Points you were sitting in the manager's office, at 7 points you were fired, you could only get 3 days off being sick with a doctor's excuse but you were still giving one point, it was later changed to nine points but the system was still pretty much the same, after being there for 7 years I started having a lot of family difficulties mainly my mom was ill and sometimes I had to look after her or leave home late when I was approaching 9 points I quit, that's when I started driving for a living, at that time which was around 1999 driving the taxi as I saw it was the only option I had for having a flexible schedule, in 2011 my wife died of lung cancer I wasn't dealing with it mentally very well I could not deal with people so I stopped driving Taxi, I returned to driving in late 2014 for Uber.


I worked at a company that had that goofy point system. If you're late, a point. If you call in sick, a point (or depending on who was the decision maker that day, could be an unexcused absence which is 5 points. 15 points in a rolling calendar year and you were shown the door.
I felt that the company was treating its employees like first graders. I resigned not long after that rule was implemented and have never looked back. I should have left that place years before I did.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> An employer is only going to do what they can get away with while retaining their workforce. Although driving for Uber doesn’t require skilled labor, you are still getting people to use their own vehicles. Unless Uber buys a nationwide fleet of vehicles, it’s not going to be possible for them to service rider demand if they become a very undesirable company to work for.
> 
> Beyond that, workers could unionize.
> 
> I don’t really want it to go that route, but if we are to keep the IC classification, Uber has to allow drivers to actually operate like real independent contractors.


I know your hart is in the right place but I’m not sure you guys advocating for status understand what it’s like to be a biz owner, IC, or even a sales person for that matter. You aren’t guaranteed profitability, as a matter of fact you could lose money. The free market weeds out those who can’t figure out the way.

Also, this forum is an echo chamber of people that make less than min wage but there are people that have the skills to kill it. I’m in a position since selling my biz that I only need a little cash flow and I believe I’m making more than most of the drivers here with low effort. There is another local driver here that runs it like a true biz and makes fantastic money. He does what needs to be done like a biz owner does. He’s a member here but I’m not going to speak for him.

If you want guarantees you will be an employee. That’s a shit existence in my opinion. Let someone else take the wheel for basic pay. That’s really how it works.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Rampage said:


> Man, when the government gives us all of this there are going to be so many people quitting their 9-5’s to be IC drivers with benefits, high pay, and freedom that pax won’t have to wait long at all for rides. Every person with a car will sign up. It’s going to be awesome! We will get paid to do a ride or two a day.
> 
> The govt is going to make them pay us regardless of saturation, right?


The net effect will be close to zero. So no there will not be more saturation because of that. Almost all markets pay more than minimum wage already and nothing is stopping Uber from letting go of employee drivers who make less than minimum wage. Do you think that employees will quit their jobs to work for Uber to get all the benefits they are already getting?

What is wrong with the government forcing Uber to treat us as employees or true ICs?


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I got my 2% on one that was $1850 worth of damage from a leaky window today lol.
> 
> I was there maybe 45 minutes and wrote her up the estimate. She ended up canceling the appointment with the insurance adjuster because if "the shady salesman could only find $1850 worth of damage there's no way the insurance adjuster will find $5,000"
> 
> ...


Thats awesome, man. Yeah, I used to say if people really want this service sell it if they have the money or not. Some would get a second job and start making payments. It’s not our job to tell them what they can afford. That being said I would be a softy and hook up old people or kids with free or low cost.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Wil Mette said:


> The net effect will be close to zero. So no there will not be more saturation because of that. Almost all markets pay more than minimum wage already and nothing is stopping Uber from letting go of employee drivers who make less than minimum wage. Do you think that employees will quit their jobs to work for Uber to get all the benefits they are already getting?
> 
> What is wrong with the government forcing Uber to treat us as employees or true ICs?


Because it would mess up my gig. I work it like a biz and make more than min. The biggest challenge in this is the people that work for min. They mess it up and now want to mandate their mess up. Just get a cool job if you want one. This is a hustlers game.


----------



## wallyruss1958 (11 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> One party who literally said "I'm trying to find ways to force every one take the vaccine and I think the best way is to start going after their jobs"
> -sleep joe dirt biden


You're a f'kn idiot. You need to stop watching Fox News moron. I was a Republican for 44 years till this Jan 6th bullshit. YOU probably still live in mommy's basement and never served. Just another whiny Gen Z puke that has no clue on how the world works.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ummm5487 said:


> One party who literally said "I'm trying to find ways to force every one take the vaccine and I think the best way is to start going after their jobs"
> -sleep joe dirt biden


this is exactly what he's talking about. Vaccines were never controversial until one party decided to make them a political issue. Vaccinations are what eradicate disease and prevent or end pandemics. Polio. Measles. Chicken Pox, etc. But they are only effective if most everyone participates in being vaccinated. It's science - not politics. But when any group decides to interfere with medical science by creating doubt and distrust for political purposes they are practicing evil - and killing people while doing it.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Rampage said:


> Because it would mess up my gig. I work it like a biz and make more than min. The biggest challenge in this is the people that work for min. They mess it up and now want to mandate their mess up. Just get a cool job if you want one. This is a hustlers game.


I feel your pain. Laws against burglary, theft and bank robbery really messed up my ability to hustle as a bank robber.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ummm5487 said:


> We don't want a system where we have to pick time slots like doordash cuz all the time slots are going to always be occupied


while I agree with you - please don't speak for me. When people come on here and tell me what "we want" all I hear is asshole politicians telling me what "Americans" want. FU (not you personally, of course) - "we" don't all want or need or care about the same things. Show some respect for others and I'll show you the same respect, even for the things you want, even if I don't want them.


----------



## pcoladog22 (10 mo ago)

It's to boost Brandon's employment numbers; nothing more.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden want us hitting a time clock... A lot of people aren't working traditional jobs and making a living doing gig work and loving the freedom of it.. and that makes the Democrats mad when they're trying to run a plantation.


I really appreciate your posting the CNBC clip - but could you please respect the forum and those here who - like you - take this stuff seriously? PLEASE follow the rules of the foru: *NO EDITORIAL COMMENTS in the first post in NEWS*.

There's a reason for that rule... post the NEWS, then make the first comment on the story your editorial comment. The reason we set it up that way was to allow the news story to speak for itself and not have this forum become a political battleground until after the story is posted! : ) 

Thanks.









READ before posting in News


The UberPeople.NET News forum is for news relating to rideshare, the gig economy and things that might affect them. Please make posts here that include the following in this order: 1) The headline in the title and in the thread 2) A paragraph or two from the article that is most relevant to the...




www.uberpeople.net



​#1 · May 5, 2021​​The UberPeople.NET News forum is for news relating to rideshare, the gig economy and things that might affect them. Please make posts here that include the following in this order:​​1) The headline in the title and in the thread​2) A paragraph or two from the article that is most relevant to the topic​3) A link to the source​*4) Please do not post your opinion in the title or first post.*​


----------



## Mozart27 (Jun 12, 2017)

Invisible said:


> Your freedom with gig work is kind of a fallacy though. You’re not free to negotiate your rates. You’re not free to choose who you want to drive, without facing repercussions. You’re not free to know the exact pickup/dropoff before you accept a ping.


1. The only gig work that you are free to negotiate is when you are some band or artist selling your skills. And usually only with an agent involved. [By signing UBER/Lyft's terms of service, you are agreeing to those rates. Now do they vary by market, and could they be more upfront about it. Yes and yes.]

2. Yes, if you are cherry picking your pings (as many on this thread do, constantly), there are long term repercussions. But those consequences usually take awhile to come about, and one can continue driving in the meantime. But, you may not get the best trips/payouts (yes, rating affects what you may be assigned.)

3. Now, the apps are more transparent about pickup/drop off locations during the ping. You just have to pay attention. As you gain higher status (blue, gold, platinum), you are able to see more details upfront. So you are rewarded for higher acceptance and driver ratings. [Not to mention all the extra benefits and rewards you get for being higher tiered.]


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I feel your pain. Laws against burglary, theft and bank robbery really messed up my ability to hustle as a bank robber.


Then you suck at it, just like you do at this.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Rampage said:


> Then you suck at it, just like you do at this.


I love when someone shows just how witty and bright they are. Thanks!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

pcoladog22 said:


> It's to boost Brandon's employment numbers; nothing more.


Yes - because that clearly would be the administration's top priority when the country is at full employment 
(economists consider ~4.5% as 'full employment because not everyone is capable of working)


----------



## Magic Dancer (Nov 18, 2020)

Antares said:


> Lyft has become hood. Lyfting in the Hood.


Don’t go into the hood. Cancel the ride. If Lyft deactivates you, drive for Uber. Your safety comes first; not Lyft’s profits.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I love when someone shows just how witty and bright they are. Thanks!


Like comparing being successful to being a bank robber. Like that? 😉


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Wil Mette said:


> What is wrong with the government forcing Uber to treat us as employees or true ICs?


Dude, If you want to be an employee so bad get a W2 job. Why try to revamp an entire industry you have zero ownership in when there are thousands of W2 jobs for the asking. 
If you really want to revamp Uber/Lyft the path is easy and straightforward. Buy a block of stock and get on the board. Then you can change stuff. 
Another option if you want to organize is get drivers together and everyone buys voting stock. Pick a spokesman and assign proxies for everyone’s stock to that person.
Now with a block of voting stock you can attend board meetings, make and vote on proposals, and effect positive changes.


----------



## Mozart27 (Jun 12, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I’m going to suggest that these gig companies never intended for any of this to become full time for many… so they used the easiest type of business model in the beginning, that is, to sign up everyone as sole proprietors… not realizing that this would eventually backfire. If the business model was reworked like I stated previously, it would take time to implement but it is definitely doable. There is really no added cost to the gig companies except for reworking the contract. In the end this would save them tons of costs defending against labor lawsuits. Once you alleviate yourself from sole proprietors it is a true business to business transaction. When I used to bring independent contractors into my business it was never as a sole proprietor. It was always business to business… they had to be a corp or llc.


Whether it's a sole proprietor or LLC, this is how delivery services have been doing it for decades (wayyyy before uber and Doordash came on the scene). It's still considered B to B. So you would be re-writing the entire gig/delivery industry.

In order up file for a LLC is not difficult(ish). But it cost and $100 to for the paperwork. That won't work for many. Then someone in your company would have to facilitate the paperwork and administration. Not saying it's not doable. Just challenging.

An LLC obviously gives you some legal benefits.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Magic Dancer said:


> Don’t go into the hood. Cancel the ride. If Lyft deactivates you, drive for Uber. Your safety comes first; not Lyft’s profits.


What do you think the likelihood of someone's going to do something bad to you in the hood is... Because all the experts say it's like getting struck by lightning.. for every one bad person in the hood there's like a hundred good people some of the best people you will ever want to meet..


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Magic Dancer said:


> Don’t go into the hood. Cancel the ride. If Lyft deactivates you, drive for Uber. Your safety comes first; not Lyft’s profits.


It isn't even about the hood. The horrible pax are often at older style apartments. Just avoid those


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> The existence of private clients outside of Uber has no bearing whatsoever on a driver's relationship with Uber. Zero, zip, nada. That person is no closer to being a "true" IC than your run of the mill X driver.
> 
> When an Uber Black driver with outside clients flips on his Uber app he's a grunt like everybody else, subject to all of Uber's rules and terms. He's no more of an IC than you or anyone else. The only "independence" he may have is more money in the bank than your run of the mill X driver.
> 
> A part-time X driver who does Uber strictly for fun money, has a high-paying "regular job" and plenty of money in the bank has a much greater level of "independence" than a full-time X driver whose sole income is Uber.


If you want to ignore the actual evaluation criteria, then that’s on you…but the black car driver having commercial insurance and taking on private clients is relevant. Simply because you don’t want to factor it in doesn’t mean it isn’t something that separates black car drivers from X drivers.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> I know your hart is in the right place but I’m not sure you guys advocating for status understand what it’s like to be a biz owner, IC, or even a sales person for that matter. You aren’t guaranteed profitability, as a matter of fact you could lose money. The free market weeds out those who can’t figure out the way.
> 
> Also, this forum is an echo chamber of people that make less than min wage but there are people that have the skills to kill it. I’m in a position since selling my biz that I only need a little cash flow and I believe I’m making more than most of the drivers here with low effort. There is another local driver here that runs it like a true biz and makes fantastic money. He does what needs to be done like a biz owner does. He’s a member here but I’m not going to speak for him.
> 
> If you want guarantees you will be an employee. That’s a shit existence in my opinion. Let someone else take the wheel for basic pay. That’s really how it works.


Well I’m glad you’re making money, but 90% of Uber drivers would be better off if they were paid mileage + wages + tips + benefits.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Qdx said:


> Well I’m glad you’re making money, but 90% of Uber drivers would be better off if they were paid mileage + wages + tips + benefits.


it’s an 80% increase in my market, if not 100% with the latest cuts.

so Orlando x drivers would get 80% more by switching to an employee model.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> it’s an 80% increase in my market, if not 100% with the latest cuts.
> 
> so Orlando x drivers would get 80% more by switching to an employee model.


Yeah, in California, the only reason more drivers don’t get Prop 22 is because they set the mileage reimbursement below actual cost. If drivers are given full mileage compensation + tips + full wage compensation + employee benefits, then the vast majority of Uber drivers would see a pay increase.

It’s hilarious that almost every thread people are complaining about low pay, but as soon as the government steps in they want to act like being an Uber X driver is the most lucrative gig in the world.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Qdx said:


> Well I’m glad you’re making money, but 90% of Uber drivers would be better off if they were paid mileage + wages + tips + benefits.


Or if they got another job. It’s about life choices. To think that you want to pick your job and ask the govt to make it profitable is ludicrous.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> this is exactly what he's talking about. Vaccines were never controversial until one party decided to make them a political issue. Vaccinations are what eradicate disease and prevent or end pandemics. Polio. Measles. Chicken Pox, etc. But they are only effective if most everyone participates in being vaccinated. It's science - not politics. But when any group decides to interfere with medical science by creating doubt and distrust for political purposes they are practicing evil - and killing people while doing it.


No the difference is these Covid vaccines weren’t tested for years and were rushed. And if you had the Measles vax and another didn’t, you wouldn’t get Measles from the unvaccinated. Yet people still get Covid with the vax. They also get long term effects from the vax.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Antares said:


> It isn't even about the hood. The horrible pax are often at older style apartments. Just avoid those


And I’ve picked up horrible pax from the burbs or swanky downtown apartments/condos.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Mozart27 said:


> 1. The only gig work that you are free to negotiate is when you are some band or artist selling your skills. And usually only with an agent involved. [By signing UBER/Lyft's terms of service, you are agreeing to those rates. Now do they vary by market, and could they be more upfront about it. Yes and yes.]
> 
> 2. Yes, if you are cherry picking your pings (as many on this thread do, constantly), there are long term repercussions. But those consequences usually take awhile to come about, and one can continue driving in the meantime. But, you may not get the best trips/payouts (yes, rating affects what you may be assigned.)
> 
> 3. Now, the apps are more transparent about pickup/drop off locations during the ping. You just have to pay attention. As you gain higher status (blue, gold, platinum), you are able to see more details upfront. So you are rewarded for higher acceptance and driver ratings. [Not to mention all the extra benefits and rewards you get for being higher tiered.]


When some people signed up for the gigs, that’s when the gig was taking 20-30% of the fare, not 75-85%. Don’t blame the drivers for wanting fare wages, and the greedy gig companies taking the majority. Drivers like you defending these gig apps are part of the problem. If you honesty believe what you write, I’d highly doubt you even drive or ever did.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

snuffysmith said:


> 4300 out of my 4500 riders are the same airport xl trip
> 
> in 2015 it paid $94
> today it pays $64
> ...


Remember this rhyme... you always get screwed when you do business with ____


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Invisible said:


> And I’ve picked up horrible pax from the burbs or swanky downtown apartments/condos.


People like him have a need to look down on others but fortunately his generation is dying out and they're not being replaced


----------



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Invisible said:


> And I’ve picked up horrible pax from the burbs or swanky downtown apartments/condos.


Downtown apartments and condos are also risky. If you pick up from a regular house is when you'll be fine.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Rampage said:


> Or if they got another job. It’s about life choices. To think that you want to pick your job and ask the govt to make it profitable is ludicrous.


Labor laws exist because people don’t have unlimited job options. Also, allowing an employer to unethically exploit their workers puts their competitors at a disadvantage if they don’t do the same.


----------



## Mozart27 (Jun 12, 2017)

Invisible said:


> When some people signed up for the gigs, that’s when the gig was taking 20-30% of the fare, not 75-85%. Don’t blame the drivers for wanting fare wages, and the greedy gig companies taking the majority. Drivers like you defending these gig apps are part of the problem. If you honesty believe what you write, I’d highly doubt you even drive or ever did.


Good for you...You made a counter for 1 point of my entire post. And missed the fact that I was trying to make a point to the person I was replying to. You may want to go back and read. And try to stay in context.

I know full well that UBER takes more of each fare. And they are less upfront about the breakdown. 
I've done both uber and Lyft off and on for years. I prefer Lyft for the aforementioned reasons. 
Larger driver payout, more transparency, less bs.

And no, I am not 'defending' these 'gig companies.' A person is capable of doing gig work without the need of some big company. However, they do make it pretty easy for you. But you should also realize what you signed up for.


----------



## Mozart27 (Jun 12, 2017)

Rampage said:


> I don’t think you understand that they have an obligation to the money cow (the pax). Someone has to move the people to keep biz going. An employee is going to be told to get them or find another job.
> 
> I like picking what pax I want to deal with.


You know what the pax is going to be like before you pick them up? Can I have what you are having?

You are picking potential locations, and assuming (basing that book/pax on the cover) that it's going to be a bad experience.

As employees, they would be more regulated and be forced to pay at least minimum wage. So that means that either the fare payouts would be better. Or for those slow times, or dead areas, you may have to drive out to...you are still being covered for. 

Also, it doesn't have to be like DD where you are having to pick a work slot. Though, coming from running an RDS [restaurant delivery service] with my family, time slots make it 100x easier to manage. So you can make sure that your market is covered for a particular time. And you don't end up with an order you can't fulfill because you don't have a slated driver.


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Mozart27 said:


> You know what the pax is going to be like before you pick them up? Can I have what you are having?
> 
> You are picking potential locations, and assuming (basing that book/pax on the cover) that it's going to be a bad experience.
> 
> ...


There are indicators such as rating, if they are stumbling drunk etc. as far as delivery, I’ve never done it.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Mozart27 said:


> Good for you...You made a counter for 1 point of my entire post. And missed the fact that I was trying to make a point to the person I was replying to. You may want to go back and read. And try to stay in context.
> 
> I know full well that UBER takes more of each fare. And they are less upfront about the breakdown.
> I've done both uber and Lyft off and on for years. I prefer Lyft for the aforementioned reasons.
> ...


No I didn’t take it out of context. I simply quoted what you wrote.


----------



## SuperuberSFL (Oct 16, 2016)

Ummm5487 said:


> One party who literally said "I'm trying to find ways to force every one take the vaccine and I think the best way is to start going after their jobs"
> -sleep joe dirt biden


What does that have to do with anything ? And it is bull crap anyway and you know it. I love how some people don't have a pot to piss in, drive Uber to make a few extra bucks but insult and make fun of people that are actually trying to make the actual real working people's life better and trying to give you a fair shake in this society. All of you dumb ass working for peanut stiffs wanna believe in the Republican big money and corporate agenda ? Wow, talkng about acually going against your self interest and be so ignorant to not see it ?


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

SuperuberSFL said:


> What does that have to do with anything ? And it is bull crap anyway and you know it. I love how some people don't have a pot to piss in, drive Uber to make a few extra bucks but insult and make fun of people that are actually trying to make the actual real working people's life better and trying to give you a fair shake in this society. All of you dumb ass working for peanut stiffs wanna believe in the Republican big money and corporate agenda ? Wow, talkng about acually going against your self interest and be so ignorant to not see it ?


It has a lot to do with it Biden and the Democrats don't like freedom.. if the government will leave me alone I can make the best decisions for myself I don't need a 80-year-old senile friend of the KKK trying to take me from independent contractor to an employee or trying to take me from a pure blood to inoculated


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

SuperuberSFL said:


> What does that have to do with anything ? And it is bull crap anyway and you know it. I love how some people don't have a pot to piss in, drive Uber to make a few extra bucks but insult and make fun of people that are actually trying to make the actual real working people's life better and trying to give you a fair shake in this society. All of you dumb ass working for peanut stiffs wanna believe in the Republican big money and corporate agenda ? Wow, talkng about acually going against your self interest and be so ignorant to not see it ?


It shows why it’s difficult to have any progress in this country. The majority of topics on this board are either about low pay or the apps treating people unfairly.

Trumpers reflexively hate anything the government does as long as a Republican is not in control.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Ummm5487 said:


> It has a lot to do with it Biden and the Democrats don't like freedom.. if the government will leave me alone I can make the best decisions for myself I don't need a 80-year-old see now friend of the KKK trying to take me from independent contractor to an employee or trying to take me from a pure blood to inoculated


Didn’t you talk about getting a job recently and about how many lawsuits these companies have?But being an employee is terrible and the government should stay out of it? (Unless someone needs to sue.)


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> Didn’t you talk about getting a job recently and about how many lawsuits these companies have?But being an employee is terrible and the government should stay out of it? (Unless someone needs to sue.)


I got more of a partnership with another company they pay me a flat $10 an hour to drive their vehicle and they pay for the gas but then I got the hustle to get tips that's under the table and the tips usually equal around 10 to $20 an hour... So by large I'm still in control and I don't need sleepy joe coming in trying to run my business... By the way he's also targeting people that work for tips... He said gig workers and people that work for tips are hiding too much money so if you got more than $600 in your checking account that's good of enough reason for them to audit you... I guess he need more of our money to give to Ukraine


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> It shows why it’s difficult to have any progress in this country. The majority of topics on this board are either about low pay or the apps treating people unfairly.
> 
> Trumpers reflexively hate anything the government does as long as a Republican is not in control.


I'm an independent and even though the Republicans are open racist unlike the Democrats that are closet racist I like how Republicans got a hands off approach while Democrats got a real pushy overbearing approach.. that I despise


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Qdx said:


> It shows why it’s difficult to have any progress in this country. The majority of topics on this board are either about low pay or the apps treating people unfairly.
> 
> Trumpers reflexively hate anything the government does as long as a Republican is not in control.


By the way 2016 I was a die-hard Democrat on the Democrat plantation when Trump won I was devastated when Joe Biden won and 20/20 I was jumping up and down with Joy it was the whole obsession with trying to force me to be a guinea pig for big pharma is where Democrats lost me forever and now the whole obsession with trying to turn me into a employee they losing me even more


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> If you want to ignore the actual evaluation criteria, then that’s on you…but the black car driver having commercial insurance and taking on private clients is relevant. Simply because you don’t want to factor it in doesn’t mean it isn’t something that separates black car drivers from X drivers.


I've yet to see any IC criteria listed on any govt website that says having commercial insurance and private clients makes a worker "closer" to being an IC than someone without private clients or commercial insurance. If you have such a list please post it here.

The same scenario is true in the other direction as well...

A full fledged, licensed, sole proprietor business owner owns a breakfast and lunch diner. For extra money he decides to get a part-time W2 evening job as a chef at a restaurant. The fact that he's a business owner is totally IRRELEVANT to his worker status at the restaurant. He's a W2 employee just like every other worker at that restaurant, period.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> I've yet to see any IC criteria listed on any govt website that says having commercial insurance and private clients makes a worker "closer" to being an IC than someone without private clients or commercial insurance. If you have such a list please post it here.
> 
> The same scenario is true in the other direction as well...
> 
> A full fledged, licensed, sole proprietor business owner owns a breakfast and lunch diner. For extra money he decides to get a part-time W2 evening job as a chef at a restaurant. The fact that he's a business owner is totally IRRELEVANT to his worker status at the restaurant. He's a W2 employee just like every other worker at that restaurant, period.


🤦‍♂️ you are hard headed as hell. I skimmed and read much of the 185 page rule change document. Black drivers being actual licensed and insured drivers that seek private clients is an argument for them being independent contractors. 

1) It shows a significant business investment:

*Proposed § 795.110(b)(2) states that an investment borne by the worker must be capital or entrepreneurial in nature to indicate independent contractor status. Such investments, for example, generally support an independent business and serve a business-like function*

2) Black car drivers seeking private clients shows business initiative

*The welder is not only technically skilled, but also uses and markets those skills in a manner that evidences business-like initiative. The skill and initiative factor indicates independent contractor status.

*


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> A full fledged, licensed, sole proprietor business owner owns a breakfast and lunch diner. For extra money he decides to get a part-time W2 evening job as a chef at a restaurant. The fact that he's a business owner is totally IRRELEVANT to his worker status at the restaurant. He's a W2 employee just like every other worker at that restaurant, period.


If the business owner is a personal chef company where he provides his service for multiple clients. If on the weekends, he works at a restaurant, he DOES have a stronger claim to being an independent contractor than a normal worker.

The government isn’t just looking at whether or not you take orders from the employer, but if the worker is in business for himself and what the level of economic dependence is. The government also looks at if what the worker is doing is entrepreneurial in nature.

A typical black car driver getting commercial insurance, TCP permit, marketing their service to clients, etc. shows that their activity is entrepreneurial in nature. A typical X driver isn’t doing anything entrepreneurial in nature when they sign up for Uber.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> 1) It shows a significant business investment:
> 
> *Proposed § 795.110(b)(2) states that an investment borne by the worker must be capital or entrepreneurial in nature to indicate independent contractor status. Such investments, for example, generally support an independent business and serve a business-like function*


There's shitloads of X drivers who make "significant" investments of capital as well in their vehicles. 



Qdx said:


> 2) Black car drivers seeking private clients shows business initiative
> 
> *The welder is not only technically skilled, but also uses and markets those skills in a manner that evidences business-like initiative. The skill and initiative factor indicates independent contractor status.*


There's plenty of X drivers on this website who "seek private clients" as well. Most X drivers on this website also show "business initiative"

Your post has done nothing to bolster your arguments.

One good thing about your post is that it clearly shows in black and white how much of a failure our IC laws are.

On multiple occasions on this website I've said our IC laws are a corrupt joke full of vague, wishy-washy clauses with loopholes large enough for an aircraft carrier to drive thru. 

Both of the excerpts contain vague, conditional words ("generally" and "indicates"). Words like those render the laws worthless.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> If the business owner is a personal chef company where he provides his service for multiple clients. If on the weekends, he works at a restaurant, he DOES have a stronger claim to being an independent contractor than a normal worker.


That's nonsense.

He has ZERO claims to being an IC at a company that uses W2 workers. There's no such thing as having a "stronger claim" to being an IC at the restaurant or McDonald's or any other place he applies to that uses W2 workers. He'd be laughed out the door if he tried to pull that stunt.

You're stubbornly hung up on this "stronger claim" or "closer to" bullshit.

This debate has run its course.


----------



## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Ummm5487 said:


> A year later most will agree it was all a sham if not something more sinister
> View attachment 681042


The overreaction to this scamdemic will go down in history as one of the biggest faux pas in history. And to think that there are still those that wear these useless masks and drive around by themselves with a mask on. Utter nonsense. Why oh why would anyone listen to the clowns at the top of our government along with the CDC or the WHO?


----------



## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Ummm5487 said:


> Biden made so many similar comments I seen it for myself him said he's trying to come up with ways to force everyone to take this vaccine and he said he think the best way is to start taking away unvaccinated people jobs and it took the supreme Court to stop him from trying to do that... To me he committed treason he attacked his own Nation and he should get what comes with that


 - head biden is nothing more than a puppet. obammy is the one still running the show


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Markisonit said:


> The overreaction to this scamdemic will go down in history as one of the biggest faux pas in history. And to think that there are still those that wear these useless masks and drive around by themselves with a mask on. Utter nonsense. Why oh why would anyone listen to the clowns at the top of our government along with the CDC or the WHO?


You can’t really be this stupid. Enough with the trolling.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Markisonit said:


> - head biden is nothing more than a puppet. obammy is the one still running the show


The Zionist are still running the show


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Atavar said:


> You can’t really be this stupid. Enough with the trolling.


☝ Go get the rope we got one over here ☝


----------



## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Atavar said:


> You can’t really be this stupid. Enough with the trolling.


And if you think like that, you are one of the problems. Unbelievable the amount of stupidity that surrounds us.


----------



## harcouber (Dec 4, 2017)

Qdx said:


> Trumpers reflexively hate anything the government does as long as a Republican is not in control.


I love what Biden has done to us all.

Gasoline $5.00 a gallon. ( yeah it went back down a bit, but is climbing once again )

Grocery bills higher than ever.

Rents going through the roof! ( friend of mine got a 40% increase in her rent )

Retirement accounts taking massive hits ..... hard working people who managed to accrue $200,000.00 in their lifetime retirements savings are seeing $10,000 - $20,000 drops in balances and they did not have to do a thing to lose all that money.

Health Care - yeah that to is going through the roof. My Prescription plan announced a REDUCTION of $1.00/month. Sounds good until you look at the $150 increase in deductibles. So they lower the premium $12/year but increase out of pocket expense by #150.00

Yeah baby I love what the Democrats are doing to us all !!!!!


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Qdx said:


> It shows why it’s difficult to have any progress in this country. The majority of topics on this board are either about low pay or the apps treating people unfairly.
> 
> Trumpers reflexively hate anything the government does as long as a Republican is not in control.


First of all, I have been calling for regulation of rideshare for awhile with the Federal Rideshare Transparency and Safety ACT. FRTSA for short. It states minimum pay out for a ride to a driver is 8 dollars. (this gets rid of ridiculous short fares and that is not a round trip either.) Extra stops are 5 dollars extra with wait times and a time limit. The split on all rides is 80/20 to the drivers unless Uber pays fees that are not passed on to a passenger. Long trips include gas, towing and maintenance fee. A trip to miami will cost around 579 dollars with fees.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Rampage said:


> This survey found that 77 percent of drivers say flexibility is more important than receiving benefits. In other words, drivers prefer flexibility over the benefits of employment by a margin of more than 3-to-1, and nearly 70% of drivers would quit if they had to take on a traditional employment role with Uber. https://ac32b1ba-8f5b-411f-91ab-b7a...d/ac32b1_1b6e5bdc853e466398779c53540ada0c.pdf


This is a false choice. 

Uber has not taken away flexibility anywhere they were forced to offer benefits, except for drivers in NYC who averaged less than 3.4 rides per day, in some areas, at times when drivers would average less than NYC's minimum wage. 
Do you drive when you make less than minimum wage??? 

Some drivers are willing to give up some of their IC rights not to be employees because they know what some employees endure. Uber is more than willing to continue to treat us like employees* (only Uber can change that) and pay us via 1099s.

* You can see that the IC vs. employee issue is not clear when you look at the questions that courts use to determine if workers are employees:

Is the worker required to comply with instructions about when, where and how the work is done?
This depends on how you define the work. Uber seems to define it as from pickup to drop off for pay. Uber seems to think it is on app time as far as being an IC.
I say: When, yes, must start heading to the pick up within 90 seconds, . Where, yes, at the pick up and drop off. How, maybe, route is up to the driver, but much is left to Uber or the pax. No mace, guns, no smells, ... Which do you think the courts will use?
Is the worker provided training that would enable him/her to perform a job in a particular method or manner?
No. Uber wins this one.
Are the services provided by the worker an integral part of the business' operations?
Must the worker render the services personally?
Does the business hire, supervise, or pay assistants to help the worker on the job?
If Uber support actually helped drivers, Uber would lose this point in court.
Is there a continuing relationship between the worker and the person for whom the services are performed?
Does the recipient of the services set the work schedule?
Is the worker required to devote his/her full time to the person he/she performs services for?
Is the work performed at the place of business of the company or at specific places set by the company?
Does Uber tell us where to pick up & drop off pax?
Does the recipient of the services direct the sequence in which the work must be done?
Are regular oral or written reports required to be submitted by the worker?
Is the method of payment hourly, weekly, monthly (as opposed to commission or by the job?)
Is this why Uber is going to upfront pricing?
Are business and/or traveling expenses reimbursed?
Is there any?
Does the company furnish tools and materials used by the worker?
Is the billion dollar Uber app required to be used by the worker?
Has the worker failed to invest in equipment or facilities used to provide the services?
Did you use an existing car or did you by a car for rideshare or did you buy a car exclusively for rideshare?
Does the arrangement put the person in a position of realizing either a profit or loss on the work?
How does a driver lose money on a ride?
Does the worker perform services exclusively for the company rather than working for a number of companies at the same time?
Does the worker in fact make his/her services regularly available to the general public?
Is the worker subject to dismissal for reasons other than non-performance of the contract specifications?
Can drivers be deactivated without cause?
Does Uber take your fare away without evidence and without consulting you?
Can the worker terminate his/her relationship without incurring a liability for failure to complete the job?
Do drivers pay a penalty for cancelling a ride?


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Wil Mette said:


> This is a false choice.
> 
> Uber has not taken away flexibility anywhere they were forced to offer benefits, except for drivers in NYC who averaged less than 3.4 rides per day, in some areas, at times when drivers would average less than NYC's minimum wage.
> Do you drive when you make less than minimum wage???
> ...


In the amount of time you typed that you could have been filling out an application to a job you like.

You want to keep this job because of how easy it is though, right? This is the only “low paying job” I’ve seen people fight to keep.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> I know from my experience out here and what I see, if I actually work the around 60 plus hours per week that I used to I could do $5,000 or a little less per month remember there are 4.33 weeks in a month not four $5,000 divided by 4.33 is only 1154 per week I know damn well I can do that.





Ummm5487 said:


> A year later most will agree it was all a sham if not something more sinister


First, the exec order was for Gov't Employees - not all US 'workers'.
Second, the President is the Chief Executive of the Gov't... it's the job of the president to see to it that gov't employees show up for work. 
Third, because of the aggressive actions of many employers requiring vaccination in order to work, the country has opened back up in dramatic fashion (ie: this NYE I couldn't walk the streets of NYC or even get into a restaurant/bar w/o showing proof of VAX and recent test and flying to/from Europe in March - as I did- meant being vaxed and getting tested within 24hrs of boarding a plane - and just a couple months later, everything was opened back up). In other words, being aggressive in vax worked - even without the draconian lockdowns employed in fascist dictatorships. 

I know many disagree with me, but personally, I would have preferred mandatory covid vaccination for all students in public schools, all gov't and military employees and everyone receiving any federal benefit - and if would have also advocated for every state to require anyone renewing or applying for a driver's license to be vax'ed - people would have hated it - but we would have been shut down for a few months instead of disabling our economy for 2 1/2 years while watching one million US citizens die.

(no need to throw stones - I know you disagree and hate what I'm saying. lol!)


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Rampage said:


> In the amount of time you typed that you could have been filling out an application to a job you like.
> 
> You want to keep this job because of how easy it is though, right? This is the only “low paying job” I’ve seen people fight to keep.


I am taking a break from Uber until after Christmas. Just was asked by an ex-coworker, now manager, to apply after Christmas for an old job.
I have work lined up most days until then and my spouse does not want me to drive in Chicago due to shootings & carjackings.

Just because you are most likely wrong about losing flexibility if Uber makes us W-2 employees, I do not think things will change for the better if:
1) Uber keeps treating us like employees and paying us with 1099s or
2) Uber keeps treating us like employees and paying us with W-2s or
3) Uber makes us true ICs.

Dara says that Uber will get positive cashflow by cutting costs. I forgot, what is Uber's biggest cost?


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

gad


Michael - Cleveland said:


> First, the exec order was for Gov't Employees - not all US 'workers'.
> Second, the President is the Chief Executive of the Gov't... it's the job of the president to see to it that gov't employees show up for work.
> Third, because of the aggressive actions of many employers requiring vaccination in order to work, the country has opened back up in dramatic fashion (ie: this NYE I couldn't walk the streets of NYC or even get into a restaurant/bar w/o showing proof of VAX and recent test and flying to/from Europe in March - as I did- meant being vaxed and getting tested within 24hrs of boarding a plane - and just a couple months later, everything was opened back up). In other words, being aggressive in vax worked - even without the draconian lockdowns employed in fascist dictatorships.
> 
> ...


Smh...you are very very inoculated 🤣


----------



## Rampage (8 mo ago)

Wil Mette said:


> I am taking a break from Uber until after Christmas. Just was asked by an ex-coworker, now manager, to apply after Christmas for an old job.
> I have work lined up most days until then and my spouse does not want me to drive in Chicago due to shootings & carjackings.
> 
> Just because you are most likely wrong about losing flexibility if Uber makes us W-2 employees, I do not think things will change for the better if:
> ...


Sounds like good plan. My buddy actually moved his biz out of that area due to crime and taxes. Wish you luck. 👍


----------



## harcouber (Dec 4, 2017)

Wil Mette said:


> Do drivers pay a penalty for cancelling a ride?


Cancelling accepted rides can lead to permanent deactivation.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Wil Mette said:


> I am taking a break from Uber until after Christmas. Just was asked by an ex-coworker, now manager, to apply after Christmas for an old job.
> I have work lined up most days until then and my spouse does not want me to drive in Chicago due to shootings & carjackings.
> 
> Just because you are most likely wrong about losing flexibility if Uber makes us W-2 employees, I do not think things will change for the better if:
> ...


It’s good you have other employment opportunities.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> That's nonsense.
> 
> He has ZERO claims to being an IC at a company that uses W2 workers. There's no such thing as having a "stronger claim" to being an IC at the restaurant or McDonald's or any other place he applies to that uses W2 workers. He'd be laughed out the door if he tried to pull that stunt.
> 
> ...


The debate has run it’s course because you haven’t read the actual document and don’t know how the evaluation is done. It’s not a black and white issue like you want it to be but you are way too stubborn and ignorant to actually read the ****ing doc.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Qdx said:


> The debate has run it’s course because you haven’t read the actual document and don’t know how the evaluation is done. It’s not a black and white issue like you want it to be but you are way too stubborn and ignorant to actually read the ****ing doc.


You're either an IC or you're not, that's what it comes down to. The grey area of the law deals with how much control a company exercises over their workers. The personal wealth or extra-curricular activities of the workers are irrelevant.

There's no points system that determines Worker A is "closer" to being an IC than Worker B because his vehicle is nicer than Worker B or that he's allegedly more "entrepreneurial minded" than Worker B or has private clients while Worker B doesn't, etc.

There's plenty of Uber X drivers with private clients who are more "entrepreneurial minded" than Uber Black drivers. And as I've pointed out, Uber probably has MORE control over Black And SUV drivers due to the more rigorous requirements and higher standards (including higher ratings) that must be maintained by those drivers in order to keep their jobs.

The same applies to the diner owner who works part time at a restaurant as a W2. He's under the same rules and protections as all the other workers at that restaurant. Neither the restaurant nor the law considers him "closer" to being an IC than the dishwashers at that restaurant.

We're going around in circles here and it's enough.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

harcouber said:


> Cancelling accepted rides can lead to permanent deactivation.


So there's no penalty for quitting.
If I quit a Santa IC 🎅 gig I have to pay my agent for my replacement and may be deactivated. This could be 2 or 3 times what I would have been paid and pr. If you quit as an employee, you will be deactivated, but will owe nothing.


Invisible said:


> It’s good you have other employment opportunities.


I am sorry that you do not.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Wil Mette said:


> I am sorry that you do not.


Why be rude when I said it’s great you have other employment opportunities? 

I work a full time job, making 50k (Midwest wages) with full benefits, including affordable health insurance, 401k match and 3 weeks paid vacation. Leaving gig work was the best for me. And I’m not having to sit and decline these crap pings.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> You're either an IC or you're not, that's what it comes down to. The grey area of the law deals with how much control a company exercises over their workers. The personal wealth or extra-curricular activities of the workers are irrelevant.
> 
> There's no points system that determines Worker A is "closer" to being an IC than Worker B because his vehicle is nicer than Worker B or that he's allegedly more "entrepreneurial minded" than Worker B or has private clients while Worker B doesn't, etc.
> 
> ...


But it’s not “either you’re an IC or you’re not.” The courts and Department of Labor perform the evaluation based on several different factors that each carry different amounts of weight.

Instead of just stopping and spending a couple of hours flipping through their actual words on the subject, you want to keep going on as if you have a grasp of the evaluation process just off reading the bullet points on the website 😂🤦‍♂️


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Invisible said:


> Why be rude when I said it’s great you have other employment opportunities?
> 
> I work a full time job, making 50k (Midwest wages) with full benefits, including affordable health insurance, 401k match and 3 weeks paid vacation. Leaving gig work was the best for me. And I’m not having to sit and decline these crap pings.


Sorry, but everyone has other employment opportunities.
I thought you were being sarcastic.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Qdx said:


> But it’s not “either you’re an IC or you’re not.” The courts and Department of Labor perform the evaluation based on several different factors that each carry different amounts of weight.
> 
> Instead of just stopping and spending a couple of hours flipping through their actual words on the subject, you want to keep going on as if you have a grasp of the evaluation process just off reading the bullet points on the website 😂🤦‍♂️


You are an IC or you are an employee. 

I started by saying "You can see that the IC vs. employee issue is not clear."

Some courts are switching to the ABC test. Get one wrong and you are an employee.

The worker is free from the employer's control or direction in performing the work.
Does Uber control drivers? (let us look at the algorithm and see)
The work takes place outside the usual course of the business of the company and off the site of the business.
What is Uber's business, rideshare, or app developer?
Customarily, the worker is engaged in an independent trade, occupation, profession, or business.
How many drivers are full-time employees that work part-time to make ends meet? (most of them) How many drivers work only for Uber and not Lyft?
Some of my Santa agents are switching to the employee model because they no longer think that they would win in court.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Wil Mette said:


> I started saying "You can see that the IC vs. employee issue is not clear."


Yeah, it’s not clear at all. There’s no single factor that you can point to that is exclusive to employees or ICs.

Some think being able to set their own hours or multi-app makes them an IC, but there are employees that are able to set their own hours and work for multiple companies.

There are ICs who do work for a client that is very controlling, but that clients attempts to control the IC doesn’t automatically make the IC an employee.

The courts and the DOL take a look at all the facts…there’s going to be some evidence of IC status and some evidence of employee status. Then it will come down to which way the scale is tipping.

Uber X drivers tip heavier to being employees than black car drivers because black car drivers are joining Uber in a way that is more similar to making an investment in a business opportunity. While Uber X drivers are, for the most part, lacking entrepreneurial investment in the business.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Wil Mette said:


> Sorry, but everyone has other employment opportunities.
> I thought you were being sarcastic.


Thanks. I used to think everyone also does, but I no longer think that. Some it seems just can’t handle W2 employment.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Qdx said:


> Yeah, it’s not clear at all. There’s no single factor that you can point to that is exclusive to employees or ICs.
> 
> Some think being able to set their own hours or multi-app makes them an IC, but there are employees that are able to set their own hours and work for multiple companies.
> 
> ...


#1 is true
#2 is false. Courts are looking mostly for control except for ABC test courts where control makes you an automatic employee, as do the other two tests.
#3 is true
#4 it makes no difference what drivers or Uber think or want. The courts do not care.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Invisible said:


> Thanks. I used to think everyone also does, but I no longer think that. Some it seems just can’t handle W2 employment.


Did I say employment? That is not what I meant to say. Everyone has work opportunities.




Invisible said:


> It’s good you have other employment opportunities.


My employment opportunities sort of suck.
Being an extra in movies & TV pays minimum wage but I enjoy it.
Santa pay is $85 to $110 per hour (someone listed a gig at $22 per hour nearby but why bother).

IC
Referee $50 to $87 per hour (nationwide shortage and usually free training for anyone interested)
Coach (retired) was $ thousands per season (nationwide shortage, usually no formal training, but if drivers know the rules it can be a good gig)

My B2C opportunities mostly pay $50 to $100 per hour.
Santa/Easter Bunny pay is $50 to $150 per hour. $0.50 per mile plus travel time at that rate.
Photo Booth operator pay is $50 to $60 per hour. $0.50 per mile plus travel time at that rate.


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Wil Mette said:


> #1 is true
> *#2 is false. Courts are looking mostly for control except for ABC test courts where control makes you an automatic employee, as do the other two tests.*
> #3 is true
> #4 it makes no difference what drivers or Uber think or want. The courts do not care.


*No court of appeals considers any one factor or combination of factors to predominate over the others in every case. — Page 14 of DOL doc *

There are various employee and IC relationships. No one factor in isolation rules and excludes all other factors from consideration.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Qdx said:


> *No court of appeals considers any one factor or combination of factors to predominate over the others in every case. — Page 14 of DOL doc *
> 
> There are various employee and IC relationships. No one factor in isolation rules and excludes all other factors from consideration.


Most of the 20 questions (factors) address control.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Invisible said:


> Thanks. I used to think everyone also does, but I no longer think that. Some it seems just can’t handle W2 employment.


I currently got one foot in one foot out I still do Uber and Lyft and all the other gigs but I also got a W-2 job that only pays $10 an hour but I get tips under the table that's more than my hourly rate ..here's my tips from just the last few days a grand total of like 800 bucks


----------



## Qdx (5 mo ago)

Wil Mette said:


> Most of the 20 questions (factors) address control.


Control is a major factor but it is not independently determinate of employee status:

*The focus of the common law control test is “the hiring party’s right to control the manner and means by which [work] is accomplished,” but the Supreme Court has explained that “other factors relevant to the inquiry [include] the skill required; the source of the instrumentalities and tools; the location of the work; the duration of the relationship between the parties; whether the hiring party has the right to assign additional projects to the hired party; the extent of the hired party’s discretion over when and how long to work; the method of payment; the hired party’s role in hiring and paying assistants; whether the work is part of the regular business of the hiring party; whether the hiring party is in business; the provision of employee benefits; and the tax treatment of the hired party.” — page 44*


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Mozart27 said:


> 1. The only gig work that you are free to negotiate is when you are some band or artist selling your skills. A


I must be an artist, I negotiated higher pay from most of my refereeing gigs.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> I currently got one foot in one foot out I still do Uber and Lyft and all the other gigs but I also got a W-2 job that only pays $10 an hour but I get tips under the table that's more than my hourly rate ..here's my tips from just the last few days a grand total of like 800 bucks
> View attachment 681351


Good for you! I miss cash tips.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

civicduty said:


> I use to treat my paperboy money like that when I was 8


I really don't know what to do with a huge mountain of ones... I don't even count it I just put it in my jug... I'm thinking of buying large Ziploc bags for it and hope there's never a fire.. I know soon as I put it in the bank Uncle sleepy Joe is going to come take it


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> I really don't know what to do with a huge mountain of ones... I don't even count it I just put it in my jug... I'm thinking of buying large Ziploc bags for it and hope there's never a fire.. I know soon as I put it in the bank Uncle sleepy Joe is going to come take it


I actually have to go to the bank and get Singles about once every 10 days I drive a taxi.

I do deposit cash into the atm, been doing it for 12 years and never had any flack, but I do report cash income to the IRS every year.


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I actually have to go to the bank and get Singles about once every 10 days I drive a taxi.
> 
> I do deposit cash into the atm, been doing it for 12 years and never had any flack, but I do report cash income to the IRS every year.


How is the taxi industry nowadays ..I hear it's making a comeback


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Ummm5487 said:


> How is the taxi industry nowadays ..I hear it's making a comeback


it will slowly make a comeback even around here people are taking taxi when its available at the airport.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Invisible said:


> It’s good you have other employment opportunities.


Aren’t we all ?


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ummm5487 said:


> How is the taxi industry nowadays ..I hear it's making a comeback


In orlando, Fewer fares than driving uber, not by much, I'm thinking at least 2/3rds or 3/4ths as many per driver on a normal day, just as many on a real busy day, twice to 4 times as much per fare. Not hard math


----------



## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In orlando, Fewer fares than driving uber, not by much, I'm thinking at least 2/3rds or 3/4ths as many per driver on a normal day, just as many on a real busy day, twice to 4 times as much per fare. Not hard math


Are you a employee or 1099


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Ummm5487 said:


> Black drivers will get the bulk of "ghetto" trips...trust me!!


Just Black, or Lux drivers also?


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Ummm5487 said:


> How is the taxi industry nowadays ..I hear it's making a comeback


I can tell you that Bell cab here in the Inland Empire California is still very much a thriving business, I'm actually thinking about giving them a try again.


----------



## Cvillegordo (Oct 30, 2019)

You have until November 28, 2022, as a member of the public, to formally comment on this proposal. You can do so here.


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Ummm5487 said:


> Are you a employee or 1099


1099 and its kind of nice. Before Rideshare it was worth it because of the money that could be made. Yes the leases were expensive. Not everything was perfect. But during certain times it was golden money during certain times of the year. Even slow times were not horrible


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Buckiemohawk said:


> 1099 and its kind of nice. Before Rideshare it was worth it because of the money that could be made. Yes the leases were expensive. Not everything was perfect. But during certain times it was golden money during certain times of the year. Even slow times were not horrible


buckie used to drive for the same cab company that I currently do.

funny thing is we met before we met online and didn’t know it for a long time lol.

But yes I’m 1099.

I pay $76 flat for a taxi for 9:00 pm to 9:00 am.
Depending on the method of payment per mile rates are $2.20 to $2.40 a mile to us.

$2.20 for vouchers.
$2.30 a mile for credit card.
$2.40 a mile cash.

Most nights my gross is $250-350
With a profit of $135-220

the cars are 4 passenger seater Camry hybrids
4 seater wheel chair accessable sienna vans
7 passenger transit vans

I personally like either the sedans or the big vans. The wheelchair vans really only work well if your on a weekly contract, really don’t work so well at nights in general as the wheelchair folks generally arnt out late night.

The bigger vans jump the lines at Disney because the van fares go to the first van in line. And this is Disney world. To make the math work… the vans cost me $7.00 less at night but burn $20-30 more in gasoline.

which sounds a lot worse than it is. I just need 1-5 to 2 more rides per shift to cover the gas.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

UberPotomac said:


> Aren’t we all ?


Do you mean aren’t we all employable? I’d say no after reading this site.


----------

