# Freaking TIPs again!



## UberXTampa

This just in from Uber:

"Reminder on Tips

The Uber experience means that riders do not have to reach for a wallet at the end of a ride. Riders should know that _*tipping is not required *_- we never want riders to feel obligated to pay extra at the end of Uber trips.
*Uber Guidelines*

Do *not* ever request a tip.
Do *not *ever post signs in your vehicle about tipping.
Do *not* ever pressure any riders to pay you directly.
If a rider offers a tip, please remind them that tipping is *not necessary* with Uber. This rider may be new and not realize there is no tipping."
At some point it says "not necessary" in other point it says "there is no tipping".

Now we all know the stupid ****** logic here. With the exception of UberX all other Uber products have some sort of tipping in them. So, the "not necessary" and "not required" are only propaganda material designed to use the UberX rides as the stepping stone.

Let's not play into Uber's hands.

Let's act ferociously.

If a rider with 5 star does not tip, he gets 4 star.
if a rider with 4.9 star tips, he gets 5 star.
if a rider with 3.7 star tips, he gets 4 star. Jump only +1 at a time. No more. they have to work harder to improve.

Star rating should mean something going forward.

I have never thought up until now using the star rating to identify the non-tipper freeloaders, but going forward I must, and we must.

This Uber defiance and active prevention tactics is too much bull shit to absorb.

At least the Uber company has to have the empathy for screwing us over and over and over but leaving us with some possibility of getting tips to compensate for part of this ordeal.

To you who would jump to say: "if you don't like it go do something else! **** Off! in a civil society, we have rights and we have freedom of speech. We can ask for what we think we deserve!"


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## elelegido

Rating pax shouldn't be based on tip/no tip. The reason is simple - it's pointless unless the pax realizes 1. that their rating suffered and 2. that it is because they did not tip. You'd need say to a pax , "tip me or I'll give you a low rating for this ride" for it to do any good at all.

I picked up a 4.4 college student this morning. I told her that her rating was low. She asked why drivers rate pax low. I told her to expect a low rating if she treats drivers badly. She giggled and said that it must be "because of New Year's Eve". She did not take it seriously at all and for that reason she earned herself a 1* from me. 

This is what the ratings system is for - to warn other drivers (and yourself too should they ping you again in future) about *********.


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## Realityshark

UberXTampa said:


> this just in from Uber:
> 
> "
> Reminder on Tips
> The Uber experience means that riders do not have to reach for a wallet at the end of a ride. Riders should know that _*tipping is not required *_- we never want riders to feel obligated to pay extra at the end of Uber trips.
> *Uber Guidelines*
> 
> 
> Do *not* ever request a tip.
> 
> Do *not *ever post signs in your vehicle about tipping.
> 
> Do *not* ever pressure any riders to pay you directly.
> If a rider offers a tip, please remind them that tipping is *not necessary* with Uber. This rider may be new and not realize there is no tipping.
> "
> 
> At some point it sys "not necessary" in other point it says "there is no tipping".
> 
> Now we all know the stupid ****** logic here. with the exception of UberX all other Uber products have some sort of tipping in them. So, the "not necessary" and "not required" are only propaganda material designed to use the UberX rides as the stepping stone.
> 
> Let's not play into Uber's hands.
> 
> Let's act ferociously.
> 
> If a rider with 5 star does not tip, he gets 4 star.
> if a rider with 4.9 star tips, he gets 5 star.
> if a rider with 3.7 star tips, he gets 4 star.
> star rating should mean something going forward. I have never thought up until now using the star rating to identify the non-tipper freeloaders, but going forward I must, and we must.
> 
> This is too much bull shit to absorb.
> 
> At least the Uber company has to have the empathy for screwing us over and over and over but leaving us with some possibility of getting tips to compensate for part of this ordeal.
> 
> to you who would jump to say: "if you don't like it go do something else! **** Off! in a civil society, we have rights and we have freedom of speech. We can ask for what we think we deserve!"


Start telling all your passengers that the reason you like driving for Uber is because of all the tips you receive. Reverse psychology. Your tips will soar.


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## Ben Hughes

A PAX who tips gets an automatic 5 star rating. Everyone else gets a 4. No tip plus I have to wait on them is a 3.


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## Ben Hughes

Realityshark said:


> Start telling all your passengers that the reason you like driving for Uber is because of all the tips you receive. Reverse psychology. Your tips will soar.


Just started that yesterday and you are right.


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## unter ling

With all the talk on the forum about tips, i am convinced that uber will add a tip button to the app along with another reduction in fares.

Yes they will reduce rates again and give you tip button. This will be the trade off. Perhaps they will also introduce a tip handling fee to process this.

I can see the uber adverts now, earn up to $90,000 a year plus tips..


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## Realityshark

unter ling said:


> With all the talk on the forum about tips, i am convinced that uber will add a tip button to the app along with another reduction in fares.
> 
> Yes they will reduce rates again and give you tip button. This will be the trade off. Perhaps they will also introduce a tip handling fee to process this.
> 
> I can see the uber adverts now, earn up to $90,000 a year plus tips..


I'd love to believe that Uber would actually make any concessions based on anything we wrote on this blog. I don't think their ego would allow for that.


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## UberXTampa

Uber is in an "all out war" against TIPping UberX drivers.

They have intensified and specifically made a mention of it in their emails recently to influense the millions of new drivers they have added that are still in their honeymoon!

They can only influence new drivers. that's why they intensified it right after adding a lot fo new drivers. 

What the f- is wrong with UberX drivers also getting tips while everyone else - cabs, UberBlack, UberTaxi, UberSUV -- etc.. get tips?

Why is that such a big deal if they said simply "it is appreciated if you tip your drivers who have done a service well!" ?


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## unter ling

Realityshark said:


> I'd love to believe that Uber would actually make any concessions based on anything we wrote on this blog. I don't think their ego would allow for that.


But they like to be seen to give with one hand but take with other as they do with their guarantee. Also it may be a concession they have to make in relation to the class action about the tip is included.


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## Harry Tsang

Everyone in Tampa Tips! If you don't tips in Tampa you get automatic 1 star! even tipping like $1 will get you a Five-Stars! Period!


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## UberXTampa

Harry Tsang said:


> Everyone in Tampa Tips! If you don't tips in Tampa you get automatic 1 star! even tipping like $1 will get you a Five-Stars! Period!


No one going to Downtown/SOHO/UT area is tipping. OK, maybe one in 20 people do. but this is still almost equals to no one.

Also, I have so far known 7 Uber drivers and not one of them tipped!

Lack of empathy and mistreatment creates monsters. they turned against their own due to not seeing tips.


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## UberHammer

Realityshark said:


> I'd love to believe that Uber would actually make any concessions based on anything we wrote on this blog. I don't think their ego would allow for that.


But at the end of "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" his heart grew three sizes. We, the drivers of Whoville, just need to form a circle and start singing.


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## UberXTampa

"The Uber experience means that riders do not have to reach for a wallet at the end of a ride"

Then make tipping standard and no one will need to reach out. We will tell them tip is included.


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## Realityshark

UberXTampa said:


> No one going to Downtown/SOHO/UT area is tipping. OK, maybe one in 20 people do. but this is still almost equals to no one.
> 
> Also, I have so far known 7 Uber drivers and not one of them tipped!
> 
> Lack of empathy and mistreatment creates monsters. they turned against their own due to not seeing tips.


Start telling all your passengers that the reason you like driving for Uber is all the tips you receive. Reverse Psychology. 90% of your passengers will make it easy for you to work this into conversation. They all ask the same things about driving. You'll be surprised at how it works...I know I have been.


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## unter ling

UberXTampa said:


> Uber is in an "all out war" against TIPping UberX drivers.
> 
> They have intensified and specifically made a mention of it in their emails recently to influense the millions of new drivers they have added that are still in their honeymoon!
> 
> They can only influence new drivers. that's why they intensified it right after adding a lot fo new drivers.
> 
> What the f- is wrong with UberX drivers also getting tips while everyone else - cabs, UberBlack, UberTaxi, UberSUV -- etc.. get tips?
> 
> Why is that such a big deal if they said simply "it is appreciated if you tip your drivers who have done a service well!" ?


I have no argument with x drivers recieving tips, they should get them, however uber say tips arent necessary or are already included or some other crap. Uber like to set agenda so i would not be surprised to see them link a tip option with a rate cut. They would also put some spin on this to the riders so they could remind drivers who is in charge. Uber have included a option of tipping if you believe the driver has given you a true 5 star service, providing you with water and snacks spotify music etc, please remember that tipping is not necessary but you provide them with a tip for exceptional service if you wish. We have compensated you the rider with a lower fare to compensate for this. ( whilest we at uber screw these guys over again)


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## Harry Tsang

UberXTampa said:


> No one going to Downtown/SOHO/UT area is tipping. OK, maybe one in 20 people do. but this is still almost equals to no one.
> 
> Also, I have so far known 7 Uber drivers and not one of them tipped!
> 
> Lack of empathy and mistreatment creates monsters. they turned against their own due to not seeing tips.


Well, seem you are really shit out of luck, out of my 20 rides, there are 2/3 of the people tips...of course it is on the weekend!


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## Realityshark

Harry Tsang said:


> Well, seem you are really shit out of luck, out of my 20 rides, there are 2/3 of the people tips...of course it is on the weekend!


Are you offering handjobs? That's not fair.


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## Harry Tsang

Realityshark said:


> Are you offering handjobs? That's not fair.


I am not the only lucky driver in Tampa, I swear! (I know quite a few drivers!)


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## unter ling

Realityshark said:


> Are you offering handjobs? That's not fair.


 Only to the lepers. Better chance of pulling off a tip


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## Realityshark

Harry Tsang said:


> I am not the only lucky driver in Tampa, I swear! (I know quite a few drivers!)


I'm happy for ya...I hope it's the beginning of a trend.


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## NightRider

elelegido said:


> Rating pax shouldn't be based on tip/no tip. The reason is simple - it's pointless unless the pax realizes 1. that their rating suffered and 2. that it is because they did not tip. You'd need say to a pax , "tip me or I'll give you a low rating for this ride" for it to do any good at all.
> 
> I picked up a 4.4 college student this morning. I told her that her rating was low. She asked why drivers rate pax low. I told her to expect a low rating if she treats drivers badly. She giggled and said that it must be "because of New Year's Eve". She did not take it seriously at all and for that reason she earned herself a 1* from me.
> 
> This is what the ratings system is for - to warn other drivers (and yourself too should they ping you again in future) about *********.


Wait... you first say that we should not base pax rating on tip/no-tip, REGARDLESS OF RATING WE GIVE? What I've seen here is a lot of drivers who, like I do, have a standard rating of 4 and then UP that rating to a 5 when a pax tips. Giving a pax a 4-star rating is not a bad thing, most pax rate drivers at a 4-star as well because 4 stars in any _reasonable _system IS GOOD.

Then, the kicker.. you get a pax that may have only had a handful of rides, and may have partied a bit on New Year's Eve and been a little unruly on a night of celebration, who probably doesn't know the seriousness of the rating system and giggled about whatever happened on NYE, in someone else's car. So, I guess the problem that you had with her was that she didn't show you an appropriate level of concern about a rating system she problem knows a lot less about than we do. OK, that's fair to a degree. *You give her a 1-star rating.* This could have easily brought her rating down to the 2-3 range. And the reason is ignorance of the intricacies of the Uber system, which if she cared she could educate herself and would find out not only that the rating system is not to be laughed at, but that Uber's tipping stance is BS. So, essentially the two transgressions are pretty much equal. Yet, I'm giving someone 4 stars for it while you give them 1 star. AND THAT MAKES *ME* WRONG?

The bottom line is passengers do have all of the information available at their fingertips, if they cared to find out more about the realities of Uber's business model. And giving out 1-star ratings, whether you're a rider or a driver, should be reserved for the most serious of situations. Of course, Uber should follow up on ALL 1-star ratings and make the executive decision whether to strike those from the record for any that fail to meet a certain standard, but it's more likely that elelegido and I will actually agree on something before that happens.


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## NightRider

UberXTampa said:


> This just in from Uber:
> 
> "Reminder on Tips
> 
> The Uber experience means that riders do not have to reach for a wallet at the end of a ride. Riders should know that _*tipping is not required *_- we never want riders to feel obligated to pay extra at the end of Uber trips.
> *Uber Guidelines*
> 
> Do *not* ever request a tip.
> Do *not *ever post signs in your vehicle about tipping.
> Do *not* ever pressure any riders to pay you directly.
> If a rider offers a tip, please remind them that tipping is *not necessary* with Uber. This rider may be new and not realize there is no tipping."


Was this sent in an email? I don't recall getting this one, and from what I see locally, I think their stance on tipping might actually be getting a bit more driver-friendly. They've even modified the language in the new contract to remove all specific references to tipping.

I wonder if this email was sent out just to specific markets where they receive more complaints about drivers who are specifically bringing up the subject of tips with their customers. BY DEFINITION, a tip is not something that should be requested and certainly not "required" (Hey, Uber, umm... "A-DUUUUUUHHHHHHH!"). They really, really, need to stop stating the obvious. Saying it's "not necessary" is bad enough.


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## franklin

UberXTampa said:


> This just in from Uber:
> 
> "
> 
> Let's not play into Uber's hands.
> 
> Let's act ferociously."


Anybody who tips, no matter how much, gets 5 stars. Anybody who doesn't tip gets 2 stars, unless it is a minimum fare ride. If that's the case the rider gets 1 star.

There is no in between. Nobody gets a 3 or a 4 star rating.


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## NightRider

franklin said:


> Anybody who tips, no matter how much, gets 5 stars. Anybody who doesn't tip gets 2 stars, unless it is a minimum fare ride. If that's the case the rider gets 1 star.
> 
> There is no in between. Nobody gets a 3 or a 4 star rating.


Do you feel that is how riders should be rating you as well?


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## franklin

No I don't think passengersa should rate drivers on the basis of whether the driver tips the passenger. Exactly how would that work? I listed the criteria for rating passengers. What are you proposing as a framework for pax to rate drivers?

Moreover what are you proposing as steps to increase driver income?


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## NightRider

franklin said:


> No I don't think passengersa should rate drivers on the basis of whether the driver tips the passenger. Exactly how would that work? I listed the criteria for rating passengers. What are you proposing as a framework for pax to rate drivers?
> 
> Moreover what are you proposing as steps to increase driver income?


Do you really think that's what I meant?


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## haji

Attention all rookie drivers , if passengers don't tip and have attitude and ask for water, gum, mint ,,, automatic 1 star.
Passengers who tip will get 5 star. The rest either 1 or 3 max.


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## Realityshark

NightRider said:


> Wait... you first say that we should not base pax rating on tip/no-tip, REGARDLESS OF RATING WE GIVE? What I've seen here is a lot of drivers who, like I do, have a standard rating of 4 and then UP that rating to a 5 when a pax tips. Giving a pax a 4-star rating is not a bad thing, most pax rate drivers at a 4-star as well because 4 stars in any _reasonable _system IS GOOD.
> 
> Then, the kicker.. you get a pax that may have only had a handful of rides, and may have partied a bit on New Year's Eve and been a little unruly on a night of celebration, who probably doesn't know the seriousness of the rating system and giggled about whatever happened on NYE, in someone else's car. So, I guess the problem that you had with her was that she didn't show you an appropriate level of concern about a rating system she problem knows a lot less about than we do. OK, that's fair to a degree. *You give her a 1-star rating.* This could have easily brought her rating down to the 2-3 range. And the reason is ignorance of the intricacies of the Uber system, which if she cared she could educate herself and would find out not only that the rating system is not to be laughed at, but that Uber's tipping stance is BS. So, essentially the two transgressions are pretty much equal. Yet, I'm giving someone 4 stars for it while you give them 1 star. AND THAT MAKES *ME* WRONG?
> 
> The bottom line is passengers do have all of the information available at their fingertips, if they cared to find out more about the realities of Uber's business model. And giving out 1-star ratings, whether you're a rider or a driver, should be reserved for the most serious of situations. Of course, Uber should follow up on ALL 1-star ratings and make the executive decision whether to strike those from the record for any that fail to meet a certain standard, but it's more likely that elelegido and I will actually agree on something before that happens.


I'm not sure why it matters. Who cares what riders are rated. We are working for next to nothing. I'm pretty sure the days of holding out for only high rated passengers is over. If you don't pick them up there are 10 drivers who will and Uber sure as hell isn't cutting off paying customers no matter what they are rated.


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## Realityshark

haji said:


> Attention all rookie drivers , if passengers don't tip and have attitude and ask for water, gum, mint ,,, automatic 1 star.
> Passengers who tip will get 5 star. The rest either 1 or 3 max.


I rate my passengers based on what they are wearing.


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## UberXTampa

Realityshark said:


> I rate my passengers based on what they are wearing.


I had once a 10 star one with a very revealing black dress and no bra! I couldn't give more than 5 Stars. There I could see 2 tips of her twin towers hardened even more by my ice cold A/C blowing the whole time.

I rated this one by what she was revealing


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## MrsUberJax

I love my job and Tips are Great! TAG, You're it!


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## franklin

NightRider said:


> Do you really think that's what I meant?


No. I don't know what you meant. That's why I asked what criteria are you suggesting that pax rate drivers by. And also what propsal to you offer that increases driver income?

I understand you disagree with my idea, but what is your suggesteed alternative?


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## Realityshark

franklin said:


> Anybody who tips, no matter how much, gets 5 stars. Anybody who doesn't tip gets 2 stars, unless it is a minimum fare ride. If that's the case the rider gets 1 star.
> 
> There is no in between. Nobody gets a 3 or a 4 star rating.


Ratings don't matter. Especially what you rate a passenger because Uber will never dump a paying customer. They routinely dump drivers while not even allowing any discourse as to why the driver is being deactivated. That fact keeps the drivers on edge worrying about their bullshit Uber job. It makes the job feel more valuable. "I have a 4.9 rating....I'm an important, valuable asset." Says the Uber slave. Ratings are Ubers' mind **** to their slaves....Uh drivers. If Uber can keep you fixated on what your precious rating is, then that makes it easier for them to keep you unfocused on things like rate cuts, shady insurance practices, the fact that you're trashing your car with too many miles, unpaid cancellations, unpaid guarantees etc. etc. They let drivers rate passengers as a way to make the drivers feel like they have some sort of control. It's a psychological mind ****. When you're cleaning puke from your back seat, the ability to rate the drunken fool a one does not make the puke smell any better. Who gives a **** what you rate passengers? I guarantee Uber does not. The passenger rating button is simply a button that you have to push to get to the next screen. If it makes you feel good giving a shitty rating to a non tipping passenger, then Uber has successfully used the make believe passenger rating system to their benefit. Now that you've rated the passenger a three, you don't do anything real about not getting tipped. You have purged yourself of that resentment with the touch of a button. Ubers' mind control wins another round. Now get back to work....There's a surge 15 miles away. Run a few red lights and get over there Uber *****.....Uh, I mean Uber driver.


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## The Madd Uber Driver

Me: yes I like u we because I get good tips

Lame ass passenger: I thought your not allowed to tip with uber?

Me: ?????????


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## Realityshark

The Madd Uber Driver said:


> Me: yes I like u we because I get good tips
> 
> Lame ass passenger: I thought your not allowed to tip with uber?
> 
> Me: ?????????


Uber claims that tips are included. There are lawsuits happening right now that is calling them out on their lies. If the customer does any homework they will find out it is true.

If that doesn't work simply pull the car over and say, "Get the **** out of my car you non tipping asshole." Hit cancel and drive on.


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## 3MATX

elelegido said:


> Rating pax shouldn't be based on tip/no tip. The reason is simple - it's pointless unless the pax realizes 1. that their rating suffered and 2. that it is because they did not tip. You'd need say to a pax , "tip me or I'll give you a low rating for this ride" for it to do any good at all.
> 
> I picked up a 4.4 college student this morning. I told her that her rating was low. She asked why drivers rate pax low. I told her to expect a low rating if she treats drivers badly. She giggled and said that it must be "because of New Year's Eve". She did not take it seriously at all and for that reason she earned herself a 1* from me.
> 
> This is what the ratings system is for - to warn other drivers (and yourself too should they ping you again in future) about *********.


And sadly she will not be dropped as a passenger. Ever. I had a passenger enter the car upon which she asked to run back inside. I Told her the fare had already started to which she hit my seat, insulted me, left my car kicking the door shut and then left me waiting for twenty five minutes never responding to texts or phone calls. After extensive week long email chain uber basically said they wouldn't cancel a riders account unless their payment method failed.


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## elelegido

3MATX said:


> And sadly she will not be dropped as a passenger. Ever. I had a passenger enter the car upon which she asked to run back inside. I Told her the fare had already started to which she hit my seat, insulted me, left my car kicking the door shut and then left me waiting for twenty five minutes never responding to texts or phone calls. After extensive week long email chain uber basically said they wouldn't cancel a riders account unless their payment method failed.


Uber Driver "Support" is very much like the Magic 8 Ball toy. You ask the same thing multiple times and get different answers every time. An accurate answer is not guaranteed by any means.

What you get told is entirely up to the CSR who receives your request; it's pot luck.


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## NightRider

franklin said:


> No. I don't know what you meant. That's why I asked what criteria are you suggesting that pax rate drivers by. And also what propsal to you offer that increases driver income?
> 
> I understand you disagree with my idea, but what is your suggesteed alternative?





franklin said:


> No I don't think passengersa should rate drivers on the basis of whether the driver tips the passenger.


Since drivers tipping passengers should be a fairly absurd idea to any reasonably thought-capable person, strike that portion from your rating policy for passengers. Replace it with conditions applicable to the inverse of the driver/passenger relationship we started out with, such as did they feed me and shine my shoes. Take the result and ask yourself would you want passengers to use that when they rate you.


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## franklin

Realityshark said:


> Ratings don't matter. ... They let drivers rate passengers as a way to make the drivers feel like they have some sort of control. .... Who gives a **** what you rate passengers? I guarantee Uber does not. The passenger rating button is simply a button that you have to push to get to the next screen.


Which is EXACTLY why we should use it to communicate the value of a potential rider to other drivers. We need to use the few tools we have.


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## franklin

NightRider said:


> Since drivers tipping passengers should be a fairly absurd idea to any reasonably thought-capable person, strike that portion from your rating policy for passengers. Replace it with conditions applicable to the inverse of the driver/passenger relationship we started out with, such as did they feed me and shine my shoes. Take the result and ask yourself would you want passengers to use that when they rate you.


Not interested in trading insults with you Batman. But as somebody said in one of the Batman movies, "you have such marvelous tools". I'm just saying use the few tools we have. If drivers started rating passengers per my proposal we would turn the rating process into a tool for us instead of for Uber. Passenger ratings are one way to communicate the monetary value of a rider to the driver. I happen to think that's a good idea. You apparently don't. Fair enough. How passengers rate drivers is irrelevant to the discussion.


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## franklin

3MATX said:


> And sadly she will not be dropped as a passenger. Ever. I had a passenger enter the car upon which she asked to run back inside. I Told her the fare had already started to which she hit my seat, insulted me, left my car kicking the door shut and then left me waiting for twenty five minutes never responding to texts or phone calls. After extensive week long email chain uber basically said they wouldn't cancel a riders account unless their payment method failed.


The point of rating on tipping is not to educate the passenger, its to communicate to the driver whether the passenger is a good bet for a tip. You're right that Uber will NEVER drop a pax except for non-payment.

Under the strategy I proposed, pax who have lower ratings will eventually get only drivers who don't care about tips - which is as it should be. And then drivers who DO care about tips will be able to focus on passengers who do tip. Again, it hurts no one and it benefits the drivers. What's wrong with that??


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## 3MATX

The problem is no rider tips because they are all told by uber that it's included. Us minion drivers telling them otherwise is less than convincing and most pax probably see it as a way to get more money from them.

This problem lies simply with uber. I drove Ben Crenshaw the 1984 and 1995 masters champion for uber select. He was pleasant and shook my hand at the end. Clearly he knows about class and knows about tipping. He did not tip me. The only explanation is he was educated by uber not to.


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## elelegido

franklin said:


> The point of rating on tipping is not to educate the passenger, its to communicate to the driver whether the passenger is a good bet for a tip. You're right that Uber will NEVER drop a pax except for non-payment.
> 
> Under the strategy I proposed, pax who have lower ratings will eventually get only drivers who don't care about tips - which is as it should be. And then drivers who DO care about tips will be able to focus on passengers who do tip. Again, it hurts no one and it benefits the drivers. What's wrong with that??


There is a big problem with this. Well over 95% of pax don't tip. So with your system, practically all riders would eventually come up as one star pax on the ping screen. How does this help a driver at 2am who used to use the rider rating to discern between the 4.7 - 4.9 riders, who are probably ok, and the 3.6, 4.1 or whatever ******bags who will give him a horrible trip?


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## franklin

elelegido said:


> There is a big problem with this. Well over 95% of pax don't tip. So with your system, practically all riders would eventually come up as one star pax on the ping screen. How does this help a driver at 2am who used to use the rider rating to discern between the 4.7 - 4.9 riders, who are probably ok, and the 3.6, 4.1 or whatever ******bags who will give him a horrible trip?


As has been pointed out in this and other threads, it's true that most pax don't tip. Agreed. I have been hearing from pax that a lot of drivers are complaining about the low pay, so word is spreading to the riders. Combining that dynamic with a response that 'yeah, about the only way to make any money over break even is tips and surge - and passengers hate the surge pricing' helps spread the word and encourages tipping without asking for one. So ethical passengers who give a damn about not exploiting people will get the hint and over time, many previously oblivious passengers will start tipping. The more we as drivers, start to get this message out, the sooner it will change. That's the education part.

The rating part is so that we, as drivers, will know who is a tipper and who is not. Giving out 4 stars(or even 3) to non-tipping passengers is a complete waste of time because it signals nothing. It's important that drivers understand this and also understand that we have a tool to protect our interests - the passenger rating. And it has to start in order to eventually exist, meaning it's important to get the message out to drivers, here and in other forums.


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## elelegido

> The rating part is so that we, as drivers, will know who is a tipper and who is not.


No, this won't tell you who is a tipper and who isn't. Under your scheme, drivers will have no idea whether a 2* Tiffany got her low rating because she doesn't tip or because she is a ******bag.

I will happily forgo a fare to avoid a ******. I would not forego a fare to avoid a non-tipper. They are 99% of my Uber customer base.

And pax education is a different matter entirely.


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## NightRider

franklin said:


> As has been pointed out in this and other threads, it's true that most pax don't tip. Agreed. I have been hearing from pax that a lot of drivers are complaining about the low pay, so word is spreading to the riders. Combining that dynamic with a response that 'yeah, about the only way to make any money over break even is tips and surge - and passengers hate the surge pricing' helps spread the word and encourages tipping without asking for one. So ethical passengers who give a damn about not exploiting people will get the hint and over time, many previously oblivious passengers will start tipping. The more we as drivers, start to get this message out, the sooner it will change. That's the education part.
> 
> The rating part is so that we, as drivers, will know who is a tipper and who is not. Giving out 4 stars(or even 3) to non-tipping passengers is a complete waste of time because it signals nothing. It's important that drivers understand this and also understand that we have a tool to protect our interests - the passenger rating. And it has to start in order to eventually exist, meaning it's important to get the message out to drivers, here and in other forums.


@franklin have you already been rating pax the way you are suggesting? If so, I'm curious how long you have been doing this and if you've been consistently giving 1 or 2 star ratings for most passengers? I ask this in all seriousness because my next question, provided you've handed out any sizeable number of 1-2's, is whether you hear from Uber about it. I believe in some markets Uber will automatically send an email to a driver asking for more information when they rate a rider 1 star. I don't think it would be too long before Uber sends you an email suggesting you watch the training videos again. (Uber's way of say "we're watching you.. with finger on deactivate button")

I would not be surprised at all if that bullet list of what we should *not *do is updated in the near future to include something like "*not *base passenger ratings solely on receipt of tip".

I understand the point you're trying to make, and this discussion has made me start to think about changing my default rating on pax from a 4 to a 3 because you are right that 4's may not be making enough of an impact. However, I do agree with @elelegido regarding the real trouble passengers. We would lose the ability to identify more serious issues. This could also backfire badly if it were to get widespread enough and then riders catch wind of it. Sure, for some that might be educational if they just never stopped to think about driver earnings. But I fear the "ethical passengers" you speak of may be few in number and we would see a spike in riders giving drivers 1-star ratings. Many of the passengers I've encountered would take news of drivers doling out 1-stars as a challenge: "Oh, drivers are rating US 1-star now? Fine, I can do that right back at them." (THIS is what I was getting at earlier in the thread when you decided to take me to task, but bygones on that)

It really does boggle my mind why Uber is being so steadfast on their tipping stance. Then again, it is also equally confusing to me how people can get in an Uber, pay as little as they do for a quality ride, and then exit said ride without tipping. Regardless of what Uber told them. Or how I can make someone get off their couch, get dressed, go out in the cold to their car, and drive 8 minutes to me to deliver a $1.00 pack of gum, for $1.00 and "no need to tip". (See my post about my Essentials experience for that..)


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## a_loser

Harry Tsang said:


> Everyone in Tampa Tips! If you don't tips in Tampa you get automatic 1 star! even tipping like $1 will get you a Five-Stars! Period!


EEEGZACTLY THIS!

Just make sure they don't see you giving them a one star or you just might get one back in return. I have just started this myself and think it should be the norm in ALL cities. It is literally the one thing we can each do and make an impact.

Also if haven't already, get yourself a square thing for your phone. It will literally give them zero excuses to not tip.


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## CowboyMC

elelegido said:


> Rating pax shouldn't be based on tip/no tip. The reason is simple - it's pointless unless the pax realizes 1. that their rating suffered and 2. that it is because they did not tip. You'd need say to a pax , "tip me or I'll give you a low rating for this ride" for it to do any good at all.
> 
> I picked up a 4.4 college student this morning. I told her that her rating was low. She asked why drivers rate pax low. I told her to expect a low rating if she treats drivers badly. She giggled and said that it must be "because of New Year's Eve". She did not take it seriously at all and for that reason she earned herself a 1* from me.
> 
> This is what the ratings system is for - to warn other drivers (and yourself too should they ping you again in future) about *********.


 Yes, I educate all my riders about tipping. I do say that tipping is one of the criteria drivers use to rate clients. Since I do educate my clients, I do rate them on tipping. Once I explain tipping, I've had a 90% success rate.


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## CowboyMC

Realityshark said:


> I'm not sure why it matters. Who cares what riders are rated. We are working for next to nothing. I'm pretty sure the days of holding out for only high rated passengers is over. If you don't pick them up there are 10 drivers who will and Uber sure as hell isn't cutting off paying customers no matter what they are rated.


 I care. It all drivers rated clients that tip a 5, I would know who tips. I could choice to pickup a client that tips or not. Knowing if a client tips or not is very important to me and should be important to you if you want to make money. I will take all the tipping clients and you can take all the non-tipping clients.


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## Yuri Lygotme

The more Uber keeps sending us emails/text remind us what to do and not to do, the more evidences we get to build a case for misclassification of employees. Then Uber will attract the mighty IRS and it will be fun to watch.


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## CowboyMC

elelegido said:


> There is a big problem with this. Well over 95% of pax don't tip. So with your system, practically all riders would eventually come up as one star pax on the ping screen. How does this help a driver at 2am who used to use the rider rating to discern between the 4.7 - 4.9 riders, who are probably ok, and the 3.6, 4.1 or whatever ******bags who will give him a horrible trip?


 After I educate my clients about tipping, I've had a 90% rate of tipping.


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## Realityshark

CowboyMC said:


> Yes, I educate all my riders about tipping. I do say that tipping is one of the criteria drivers use to rate clients. Since I do educate my clients, I do rate them on tipping. Once I explain tipping, I've had a 90% success rate.


Whatever works for you...go for it. If you've figured out a way to get 9 out of 10 of your passengers to tip you then keep up the good work however you are making it happen.


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## Realityshark

CowboyMC said:


> I care. It all drivers rated clients that tip a 5, I would know who tips. I could choice to pickup a client that tips or not. Knowing if a client tips or not is very important to me and should be important to you if you want to make money. I will take all the tipping clients and you can take all the non-tipping clients.


Of course since your idea will only work when you have nearly 100% participation of _all_ drivers; not just the ones' on this forum, there is obviously no need or incentive to play along with your rating idea. Additionally, since you have already figured out a way to have 90% of your riders tip you; as you have previously stated, it really sounds like you don't need the rating edge to accomplish your tipping goal.


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## JaxBeachDriver

UberXTampa said:


> This just in from Uber:
> 
> "Reminder on Tips
> 
> The Uber experience means that riders do not have to reach for a wallet at the end of a ride. Riders should know that _*tipping is not required *_- we never want riders to feel obligated to pay extra at the end of Uber trips.
> *Uber Guidelines*
> 
> Do *not* ever request a tip.
> Do *not *ever post signs in your vehicle about tipping.
> Do *not* ever pressure any riders to pay you directly.
> If a rider offers a tip, please remind them that tipping is *not necessary* with Uber. This rider may be new and not realize there is no tipping."
> At some point it says "not necessary" in other point it says "there is no tipping".
> 
> Now we all know the stupid ****** logic here. With the exception of UberX all other Uber products have some sort of tipping in them. So, the "not necessary" and "not required" are only propaganda material designed to use the UberX rides as the stepping stone.
> 
> Let's not play into Uber's hands.
> 
> Let's act ferociously.
> 
> If a rider with 5 star does not tip, he gets 4 star.
> if a rider with 4.9 star tips, he gets 5 star.
> if a rider with 3.7 star tips, he gets 4 star. Jump only +1 at a time. No more. they have to work harder to improve.
> 
> Star rating should mean something going forward.
> 
> I have never thought up until now using the star rating to identify the non-tipper freeloaders, but going forward I must, and we must.
> 
> This Uber defiance and active prevention tactics is too much bull shit to absorb.
> 
> At least the Uber company has to have the empathy for screwing us over and over and over but leaving us with some possibility of getting tips to compensate for part of this ordeal.
> 
> To you who would jump to say: "if you don't like it go do something else! **** Off! in a civil society, we have rights and we have freedom of speech. We can ask for what we think we deserve!"


Uber, **** YOU. As you've pointed out, you're here to help me grow MY business (lol). I'm an independent contractor. You're a technology company. Inside the car is the transportation process. If you don't want to be a ****ing transportation company, please refrain from interjecting where you don't belong. Stay in your app.


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## JaxBeachDriver

NightRider said:


> Do you feel that is how riders should be rating you as well?


The driver sometimes pays to drive you around. Unless he was a total dick or he wrecked the car or fell asleep behind the wheel, then yes you should rate him a 5. Otherwise find a limo or a golden ticket for a taxi with leather seats and a $4 fare with no tip.


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## NightRider

JaxBeachDriver said:


> The driver sometimes pays to drive you around. Unless he was a total dick or he wrecked the car or fell asleep behind the wheel, then yes you should rate him a 5. Otherwise find a limo or a golden ticket for a taxi with leather seats and a $4 fare with no tip.


No argument here.


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## CowboyMC

Realityshark said:


> Of course since your idea will only work when you have nearly 100% participation of _all_ drivers; not just the ones' on this forum, there is obviously no need or incentive to play along with your rating idea. Additionally, since you have already figured out a way to have 90% of your riders tip you; as you have previously stated, it really sounds like you don't need the rating edge to accomplish your tipping goal.


 I also try to connect with other Uber drivers and educate them. I have a card printed with this website on it and hand it to every Uber driver I find.


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## franklin

Realityshark said:


> Of course since your idea will only work when you have nearly 100% participation of _all_ driversl.


Some truth to that, but I'd say only the drivers in the area I drive regularly. And its a growing thing, starts with a few drivers, then they tell a few others, etc. Pretty soon everyubody's at least heard of it.


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## Realityshark

franklin said:


> Some truth to that, but I'd say only the drivers in the area I drive regularly. And its a growing thing, starts with a few drivers, then they tell a few others, etc. Pretty soon everyubody's at least heard of it.


Point taken......It has to start somewhere.


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## Realityshark

CowboyMC said:


> I also try to connect with other Uber drivers and educate them. I have a card printed with this website on it and hand it to every Uber driver I find.


Your efforts are admirable.


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## uberissohonest

elelegido said:


> Uber Driver "Support" is very much like the Magic 8 Ball toy. You ask the same thing multiple times and get different answers every time. An accurate answer is not guaranteed by any means.
> 
> What you get told is entirely up to the CSR who receives your request; it's pot luck.


im pretty sure the csr's aint human. i once emailed support the following:

dear support,

what color is the rainbow? and if aliens exist, how do they affect my rating?

thanks.

you can guess the response. (canned reply about how the rating system works, nothing about rainbows or aliens).


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## JaxBeachDriver

uberissohonest said:


> im pretty sure the csr's aint human. i once emailed support the following:
> 
> dear support,
> 
> what color is the rainbow? and if aliens exist, how do they affect my rating?
> 
> thanks.
> 
> you can guess the response. (canned reply about how the rating system works, nothing about rainbows or aliens).


Lmfao


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## uberissohonest

my sincere hope is that y'all don't think i made that up for laughs. i really did email them that. it was after a series of exchanges about ratings where they kept saying "we are unable to provide you information about am individual passenger rating bla bla bla" which i never askedfor in the first place. maybe you are aware of it or not--- humans are not their first line of defense. they have bots and such that are programmed to respond to keywords. if you already knew that, i don't mean to insult your intelligence. anyhoo, email them the wackiest shit you can think of, and wait with abated breath for the hilarious response!


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## JaxBeachDriver

uberissohonest said:


> my sincere hope is that y'all don't think i made that up for laughs. i really did email them that. it was after a series of exchanges about ratings where they kept saying "we are unable to provide you information about am individual passenger rating bla bla bla" which i never askedfor in the first place. maybe you are aware of it or not--- humans are not their first line of defense. they have bots and such that are programmed to respond to keywords. if you already knew that, i don't mean to insult your intelligence. anyhoo, email them the wackiest shit you can think of, and wait with abated breath for the hilarious response!


I'm laughing because I believe it. I still think they're human, but I think they just respond like machines


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## Tedgey

3MATX said:


> I drove Ben Crenshaw the 1984 and 1995 masters champion for uber select. He was pleasant and shook my hand at the end. Clearly he knows about class and knows about tipping. He did not tip me. The only explanation is he was educated by uber not to.


Wait, hang on... what happened?


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## HotRodriguez75

I am rating based on the distance of your ride.

1 - miles = 1*
2- miles = 2*
3 - miles = 3*
4 - miles = 4*
5+ Miles = 5*

If you don't tip, I deduct 1*. If you tip, you earn that 5* rating.


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## tohunt4me

unter ling said:


> With all the talk on the forum about tips, i am convinced that uber will add a tip button to the app along with another reduction in fares.
> 
> Yes they will reduce rates again and give you tip button. This will be the trade off. Perhaps they will also introduce a tip handling fee to process this.
> 
> I can see the uber adverts now, earn up to $90,000 a year plus tips..


They will take 25% !
Then the rest will be on your tax forms.


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## Greguzzi

unter ling said:


> Only to the lepers. Better chance of pulling off a tip


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## tohunt4me

Realityshark said:


> Ratings don't matter. Especially what you rate a passenger because Uber will never dump a paying customer. They routinely dump drivers while not even allowing any discourse as to why the driver is being deactivated. That fact keeps the drivers on edge worrying about their bullshit Uber job. It makes the job feel more valuable. "I have a 4.9 rating....I'm an important, valuable asset." Says the Uber slave. Ratings are Ubers' mind **** to their slaves....Uh drivers. If Uber can keep you fixated on what your precious rating is, then that makes it easier for them to keep you unfocused on things like rate cuts, shady insurance practices, the fact that you're trashing your car with too many miles, unpaid cancellations, unpaid guarantees etc. etc. They let drivers rate passengers as a way to make the drivers feel like they have some sort of control. It's a psychological mind ****. When you're cleaning puke from your back seat, the ability to rate the drunken fool a one does not make the puke smell any better. Who gives a **** what you rate passengers? I guarantee Uber does not. The passenger rating button is simply a button that you have to push to get to the next screen. If it makes you feel good giving a shitty rating to a non tipping passenger, then Uber has successfully used the make believe passenger rating system to their benefit. Now that you've rated the passenger a three, you don't do anything real about not getting tipped. You have purged yourself of that resentment with the touch of a button. Ubers' mind control wins another round. Now get back to work....There's a surge 15 miles away. Run a few red lights and get over there Uber *****.....Uh, I mean Uber driver.


Wow. . . Nailed it. !


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## tohunt4me

uberissohonest said:


> im pretty sure the csr's aint human. i once emailed support the following:
> 
> dear support,
> 
> what color is the rainbow? and if aliens exist, how do they affect my rating?
> 
> thanks.
> 
> you can guess the response. (canned reply about how the rating system works, nothing about rainbows or aliens).


They DIDNT call you in for a drug screen?


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## Rich2nyce

had a pax tell me "i thought tipping was against the rules, how would someone tip you?" i said cash or paypal (swipe reader). she said she didnt know that but knew she was in 2.8 surge


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## cubert

Oh mine is simple

If I wait - 4 stars
Didn't put destination -4
Slams the door -4
Asks cable -4
Asking stupid questions -4
No tip -4

Basically I rate 1 star every pax since cut rates.


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## Tequila Jake

I decide the rating regarding tipping on a case by case basis. Uber driver who doesn't tip ... 3 star. Waiter or waitress who doesn't tip ... 3 star. Tipper automatically gets 5 stars.

I've only given 1 1-star rating and that had nothing to do with tipping (he didn't). Obnoxious college kid barely made a minimum fare going to the airport. While putting his bags in the back, his even more obnoxious girlfriend - who wasn't going on the ride - sees the case of water in the back and asks him if she could have some, so he just hands her a couple of bottles without even looking at me.

And not even paying attention. At the end of the ride, after I help him get his bags out, I say, "Have a good flight!" His response? "You too".


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## Yuri Lygotme

I did last night my once a month ride to keep my account active. PAX asks me to stop at a Burger King. I cringe, and as I was just about to reluctantly say "ok.." he added "come on man, stop at Burger King, I'll suck your dick if you do..."

- Nope I'm bringing you to your destination, no stops. If I, as the driver, said those words to a passenger there would have been disastrous consequences for me. So you as the passenger will have to suffer the mild consequence of not having a Burger King.

Rated PAX one star. My god, people are putting up with that for $0.65 a mile (Orlando).....


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