# True Pay is Actually Less Than Thirty Cents/Mile



## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Since the forum seems to have lots of new drivers, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a breakdown for ants. This is why I really hate Uber and, in two weeks, will no longer drive unless I'm simply bored out of my mind.

Last week, I picked up a college student who needed a ride to a nearby city. Normally, I ask for extra cash to cover deadhead miles, but this kid was broke and its a long story. Anyway, I accepted the ride. Here's the breakdown. ..

.80/mile and .15/minute.
87 miles - Trip Length
78 minutes - Trip Duration

$61.79 - My payout, after Uber fees removed.

I had to deadhead back with no pax, and my car gets 30mpg. Let's do the math.

174 miles driven.
2.6 hours time
5.8 gals of fuel @ $2.25/gal = $13.05 fuel expense
$48.74 - pay after fuel deducted

Final tally is 28 cents per mile. This doesn't include tire wear, miles on car, insurance, etc. The IRS says it costs 54 cents to drive one mile. For me, 28 cents per mile leaves no room for extras like free water and free stops at the store.

Now, I realize that empty miles typically don't equal paid miles, but no matter how you do this work, you'll end up with some dead miles. If you drive for base X rates, and practice anting around, the only "partner" making money is Uber.

Making money requires studying the surge and only accepting surge rides. BTW- Uber charged the kid $110 for the ride. Upfront pricing. There is simply no reason for fares this low.


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## Tippy711 (Apr 14, 2017)

How did you drive 174 miles in 2.6 hours? At 60 mph for every mile it would take you 2:34 minutes. Did the pax jump into the car at 60 mph and jump out at the destination at the same speed? You can't go over 80 mph or your phone will turn red and start beeping. Still can't figure out how you covered that milage in that time.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Tippy711 said:


> How did you drive 174 miles in 2.6 hours? At 60 mph for every mile it would take you 2:34 minutes. Did the pax jump into the car at 60 mph and jump out at the destination at the same speed? You can't go over 80 mph or your phone will turn red and start beeping. Still can't figure out how you covered that milage in that time.


Easy....60mph average. All highway. 70mph speed limit. I did 75mph most of the way there... On the way back I drove 85, because I was alone. I can post a screen shot of the trip if you want, but it's in my phone and I'm on a tablet.


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## Tippy711 (Apr 14, 2017)

No it's cool that explains it. 85 mph on the way back, I got it now. Just be careful too many traffic Tix and you're gone from ridesharing.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

How about a photo of the phone? Lol. .. might as well post it, in case others are interested. 87 miles in 78 minutes. Uber fare is a lie though. .. he paid Uber $110. I don't care if I get fired. There are never any incentives or promotions in my area, and I'm tired of working surge.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Jagent said:


> How about a photo of the phone? Lol. .. might as well post it, in case others are interested. 87 miles in 78 minutes. Uber fare is a lie though. .. he paid Uber $110. I don't care if I get fired. There are never any incentives or promotions in my area, and I'm tired of working surge.


 Same here in my market ,I barely drive because there are no incentives, boost or quest, The ants out there driving for base rates think there making money...lol


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Jagent said:


> Since the forum seems to have lots of new drivers, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a breakdown for ants. This is why I really hate Uber and, in two weeks, will no longer drive unless I'm simply bored out of my mind.
> 
> Last week, I picked up a college student who needed a ride to a nearby city. Normally, I ask for extra cash to cover deadhead miles, but this kid was broke and its a long story. Anyway, I accepted the ride. Here's the breakdown. ..
> 
> ...


Your pay is a loss

62 - 93 means you lost $31 doing that ride.
174 x .535 =
93.09

I can't believe you have not been fired for low ratings for asking people for money for dead miles.

True pay unless you have a lot of surge or have no dead miles and can drive around from one stop to another is less than zero.


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## kk21912003 (May 5, 2017)

Long trip is worse than short trip under current uber x and lyft rate. Driving 87 miles back alone will also for sure make you lose instead gain any $. As an uber X and lyft driver in bay area California, $1/mile (including all the miles you drive when app is on) earning after commission is the bottom line in my view. Before you open the door to your home after your driving day, if you find your average is below that line, you failed . If it is close, you are OK. If otherwise, you are lucky


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

kk21912003 said:


> Long trip is worse than short trip under current uber x and lyft rate. Driving 87 miles back alone will also for sure make you lose instead gain any $. As an uber X and lyft driver in bay area California, $1/mile (including all the miles you drive when app is on) earning after commission is the bottom line in my view. Before you open the door to your home after your driving day, if you find your average is below that line, you failed . If it is close, you are OK. If otherwise, you are lucky


Base X pay is .60 after commission here. No way to profit. Has to be surge only.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Good posts in this thread. Now that I only accept surge and XL, my acceptance rate is pitiful, but at least I know I'm not outright paying Uber to drive.


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## Delilah5 (Mar 20, 2017)

The IRS .54 cents mileage deduction was meant for new or newer cars only a few years old, because BIG BUSINESS lobbied for it. And they could lease a new car and trade it in every couple years and write off the deduction against their lease payments the company pays anyway.

If you have a 10 year old Mercedes S550 that is worth 20k now and you drive Uber 1k miles a week n a year is 52k miles, you know the car doesnt depreciate 27k to be worth( -7k) in that year. If it lasts 2 years you are deducting over 54k in income that you dont have to pay taxes on. The car is then not worth -34k.

You can apply this to any used car, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Lexus, Acura, Audi, Hyundai, Chevy Mailbu, Ford Focus

The depreciation curve leans heavily in favor towards older and more reliable cars.


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

Jagent you ROCK. This post is spot on. I am only driving surge and boost now too. Why Uber says "You don't have to tip your driver." is beyond me. I love doing this work but hate working for Uber. So now I'm only looking at the money.
If they would only encourage riders to show us their appreciation this would be a wonderful "gig".
But don't tell the newbies, so they will still take those rides that suck and Pool rides.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Go4 said:


> Jagent you ROCK. This post is spot on. I am only driving surge and boost now too. Why Uber says "You don't have to tip your driver." is beyond me. I love doing this work but hate working for Uber. So now I'm only looking at the money.
> If they would only encourage riders to show us their appreciation this would be a wonderful "gig".
> But don't tell the newbies, so they will still take those rides that suck and Pool rides.


Thanks. I'm the same as you. I like the job, but hate Uber and the pay. The key to making it work is to stop fearing deactivation. Work surge only. Pass out business cards with your phone number to business travelers. Take cash rides. Develope private clients. Uber ignores the rules and so should drivers.


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## JDoey (Mar 6, 2017)

True pay idk guys... if you want to spend your time driving loads of dead miles and complaining about fares it doesn't make any sense.. 

A fare is a fare. 

It also doesn't make much sense to chase surge either, that's just racking up dead head miles. 

I drove 291 miles today, 278 miles on trip, which are tax deductible. 

Got 1 surge trip at 1.4x. 

Idk why drivers insist on racking up dead head miles, this is the biggest way to cheat yourself out of funds driving uber


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

JDoey said:


> It also doesn't make much sense to chase surge either, that's just racking up dead head miles.


You're definitely right about deadhead miles, but depends on where you live/drive re: surge, and it depends on the car you drive, too. I don't make anything when I drive for base X fares with my XL. I hardly can cover gas, let alone the maintenance costs for wear and tear. I think we're pretty lucky in Houston that we have a lot of spots that regularly surge, and I live in one the hottest spots so there's no chasing surge, just knowing when to drive. I think if I drove a cost-effective compact car it would be another story, but driving Uber X in a minivan just doesn't make sense.


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## JDoey (Mar 6, 2017)

Lelekm said:


> You're definitely right about deadhead miles, but depends on where you live/drive re: surge, and it depends on the car you drive, too.


This is true, some markets are better than others.

Every driver has it different.

No matter what market you're in, pick a time, drive for a set amount of hours, and then go home, you're done.

Folks will go out when they think the markets hot, drive around looking for a good fare. They have no time blocked out specifically for work. They get 1 hour away from their house and rush home.

That's leads to up to 50% dead head miles and a waste of gas/money.

Your situation is tough.. XL is a tricky ball game.

When folks make time to work, carve it out. They can take trips back to back, cause... you're at work, and have no other place to be.

Dead head miles cut to 10% or less.

We save on gas, time, make more funds.

I guess there are different stokes, limitations and such for different folks too.

One strategy can't fit all, of course.

But definitely one of the biggest mistakes made is dead head.

Like, we gotta find our groove, niche and go get paid is what it comes down to.

I wish every driver would make as much as they possibly could.

If we would be able to minimize these common driver errors we'd see great payoffs


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

I had two minimum fares tonight which consisted of a college student with several pieces of luggage going to a bus stop so they could go home. $3.19 in each case and several minutes loading and unloading suitcases. In one case there was a long hug goodbye with a friend. In the other case the guy had to go back into the building to get the second suitcase, which had to go into the back seat of my car since it wouldn't fit next to the other one in the trunk of my 3 series.

I'm not super ticked or anything, just a little discouraged/depressed. What I had hoped would be airport runs this morning turned into cheap/poor college students bringing all their crap home. Stay away from campus unless you're desperate! Business travelers at least know how to travel light, even if they don't tip. 

I had an airport pickup guy tonight who was super arrogant in conversation with his co worker, but since he was polite and prompt at pickup and drop-off I gave him 5*, even though he didn't tip. Starting to like airport pickup more and more...less BS.


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## JDoey (Mar 6, 2017)

MadTownUberD said:


> I had two minimum fares tonight which consisted of a college student with several pieces of luggage going to a bus stop so they could go home. $3.19 in each case and several minutes loading and unloading suitcases. In one case there was a long hug goodbye with a friend. In the other case the guy had to go back into the building to get the second suitcase, which had to go into the back seat of my car since it wouldn't fit next to the other one in the trunk of my 3 series.
> 
> I'm not super ticked or anything, just a little discouraged/depressed. What I had hoped would be airport runs this morning turned into cheap/poor college students bringing all their crap home. Stay away from campus unless you're desperate! Business travelers at least know how to travel light, even if they don't tip.
> 
> I had an airport pickup guy tonight who was super arrogant in conversation with his co worker, but since he was polite and prompt at pickup and drop-off I gave him 5*, even though he didn't tip. Starting to like airport pickup more and more...less BS.


Had an aweful day yesterday ....

I could have cut out 3 hours early and lost 25$.

The last 3 hours just took a turn for the worst lol.

But.. today's a new day


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## Mark69324 (Aug 6, 2017)

Jagent said:


> Since the forum seems to have lots of new drivers, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a breakdown for ants. This is why I really hate Uber and, in two weeks, will no longer drive unless I'm simply bored out of my mind.
> 
> Last week, I picked up a college student who needed a ride to a nearby city. Normally, I ask for extra cash to cover deadhead miles, but this kid was broke and its a long story. Anyway, I accepted the ride. Here's the breakdown. ..
> 
> ...


To be fair though, 54 cents per mile isn't reflective of the average Uber driver.
It is based off of the cost of a new car that you will sell in 5 years, driving 15k miles per year. That is only 41 miles per day. A lot of people drive this just to work and back. 
The cost of driving a car per mile varies by how much you drive it.
Example. Let's say you drive your new car 1 mile a month. Your cost per mile is going to be ~$300-650 per mile. If you drive it 15k, the average cost lowers to $0.54 per mile. If you drive 35k miles a year, the average is closer to $0.32 per mile. Then there are costs that you already pay on your personal car whether you drive for Uber/Lyft or not, such as insurance. If you take that out, then that's ~$.028 per mile. Then there are multiple ways to lower this cost. For example. Depreciation is calculated at 24 cents per mile. My depreciation costs me 7.5 cents per mile. (I could get the number lower, but I am being conservative on that number). That's 16.5 cents per mile that I save from depreciation. My historical cost to drive a car is ~15.7 cents per mile (This includes the cost of gas @ $2.50 a gallon). $61.79 earnings - $27.32 = $34.47 profit for that run if I used my car.
Don't let people get you down, using the 54 cents per mile. That number is not a true average. It is the number that lobbyist were able to convince the IRS to accept as an average. Outside of taxes, it is meaningless. My cost is meaningless as well.
The only number that truly matters is your own cost to drive a car.


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## Ubergirlz99 (Sep 25, 2016)

Mark69324 said:


> My historical cost to drive a car is ~15.7 cents per mile (This includes the cost of gas @ $2.50 a gallon). My cost is meaningless as well. The only number that truly matters is your own cost to drive a car.


I don't think it's fair to discount costs like insurance and wear on tires as a cost of business just because you'd have to pay it anyway. It's Uber's way of screwing us and turning a profit for their investors. (How's that going, anyways? I hear they are always in the red.) The moral of this story is how, when you really look at the numbers, driving deadheads or low ping nights just eats at your profits. I wish Uber had a sliding scale on their "fees". If you are logged in and driving around a lot to get a PAX, they should have some algorithm that reduces their rates.


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## YourPrivateDriver (Jul 5, 2016)

Ubergirlz99 said:


> I don't think it's fair to discount costs like insurance and wear on tires as a cost of business just because you'd have to pay it anyway. It's Uber's way of screwing us and turning a profit for their investors. (How's that going, anyways? I hear they are always in the red.) The moral of this story is how, when you really look at the numbers, driving deadheads or low ping nights just eats at your profits. I wish Uber had a sliding scale on their "fees". If you are logged in and driving around a lot to get a PAX, they should have some algorithm that reduces their rates.


uber reduce their rates? no way is that gonna happen. with the new upfront surge they are trying out uber will only look for ways to increase their take of the fare.


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## Mark69324 (Aug 6, 2017)

Ubergirlz99 said:


> I don't think it's fair to discount costs like insurance and wear on tires as a cost of business just because you'd have to pay it anyway. It's Uber's way of screwing us and turning a profit for their investors. (How's that going, anyways? I hear they are always in the red.) The moral of this story is how, when you really look at the numbers, driving deadheads or low ping nights just eats at your profits. I wish Uber had a sliding scale on their "fees". If you are logged in and driving around a lot to get a PAX, they should have some algorithm that reduces their rates.


To me, insurance is a sunk cost that I pay for personal use of my car. Uber pays for my commercial insurance when i drive for work. If I considered it as a cost for work, I would also have to consider it as a benefit so it cancels out. But, I respect other people that consider it in their costs. It costs me about 3 cents a mile so it's not really that big of a deal for me. I do include tires, as they are truly based off of cost per mile. 
I try not to drive around between rides. Often times when I do, I end up getting a request from where I had dropped off my last ride, making the driving around useless. I try to find areas that people are likely to be requesting a ride and just chill. Otherwise I will drive away my profits. 
In either event. My point was really that 54 cents is a super high number. Most people driving UberX wont pay anywhere near that per mile. Everyone should calculate their costs and at what point it is worth driving in their area.
I hope you are making money in your area.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Jagent said:


> Since the forum seems to have lots of new drivers, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a breakdown for ants. This is why I really hate Uber and, in two weeks, will no longer drive unless I'm simply bored out of my mind.
> 
> Last week, I picked up a college student who needed a ride to a nearby city. Normally, I ask for extra cash to cover deadhead miles, but this kid was broke and its a long story. Anyway, I accepted the ride. Here's the breakdown. ..
> 
> ...


So how much money do you make if the rates are $.65 per mile and fübr takes out 28% commission plus don't forget that hefty .11 per minute they charge the customer. With Dead miles back, how much do you make in this scenario?


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## whiskeyboat (Oct 14, 2017)

Jagent made just under 50 for just over 2.5 hours. Not great money but not bad considering those were the easiest miles you can put on your car.

City miles will beat your car to death, highway miles are practically zero wear and tear.


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## Mark69324 (Aug 6, 2017)

2Cents said:


> So how much money do you make if the rates are $.65 per mile and fübr takes out 28% commission plus don't forget that hefty .11 per minute they charge the customer. With Dead miles back, how much do you make in this scenario?


With dead miles, with those numbers, about 21 dollars. Without deadmiles, $33.64 (I would use the destination feature to lower my dead miles, so it would be somewhere in between


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

The IRS does not say it costs $.54/mile to drive a car. It says you can deduct $.54/mile. These are not the same thing. It neither hints, nor should anybody see this as a hint, as to what it actually costs to drive a vehicle. It can be less, it can be more.



whiskeyboat said:


> Jagent made just under 50 for just over 2.5 hours. Not great money but not bad considering those were the easiest miles you can put on your car.
> 
> City miles will beat your car to death, highway miles are practically zero wear and tear.


He didn't make anything close to $50. 173 miles for most people driving uber is by my math (and hey I've actually run it unlike most people here, unfortunately!) is about $.25/mile total cost. $43 operating costs. But this is a better ballpark than IRS by far, but not going to apply to everyone. Some are higher, a few are lower. I doubt many people driving uber at all are much less than $.18-19/mile. So even with those optimistic figures he only netted $30.


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## MarkR (Jul 26, 2015)

Jagent said:


> Since the forum seems to have lots of new drivers, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a breakdown for ants. This is why I really hate Uber and, in two weeks, will no longer drive unless I'm simply bored out of my mind.
> 
> Last week, I picked up a college student who needed a ride to a nearby city. Normally, I ask for extra cash to cover deadhead miles, but this kid was broke and its a long story. Anyway, I accepted the ride. Here's the breakdown. ..
> 
> ...


What I do is this.... I drive to an area I have to be at anyway and then I turn the app on and if it's close enough I'll pick them up, drop off and look for a parking lot and wait for the next one. Screw driving around. I'll keep doing that as I slowly head home and pick up on my way home.


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