# Uber is cheating drivers



## Doc Bartolo (Jun 17, 2017)

Casn someone help me understand this?
I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
Uber should get 25% of that which is $4.41 and the driver should get 75% which is $13.24.
Uber took $5.49 in service fees for this ride which is 31% or an extra $1.08.
WHY?
Uber's commission is supposed to be 25%. Why did they take 31% in this case?
This is NOT an isolated case. I have seen this with most if not all of my rides recently.
Has anyone else experienced this? Can anyone explain why and how Uber is allowed to do this?


----------



## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

Please re-read the TOS you signed to start driving. Drivers get paid a base fare + mileage + time. 

Nothing at all to do with your rider's fare. There is NO 25% that Uber takes. Uber takes everything the rider pays over and above your payment.

And Yes, Uber is cheating drivers, but legally.


----------



## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Go4 said:


> Please re-read the TOS you signed to start driving. Drivers get paid a base fare + mileage + time.
> 
> Nothing at all to do with your rider's fare. There is NO 25% that Uber takes. Uber takes everything the rider pays over and above your payment.
> 
> And Yes, Uber is cheating drivers, but legally.


I question the legality. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. How can a 3rd party overcharge a payer (rider) and then take an additional cut from what they paid to the payee (driver).


----------



## Mco (May 4, 2016)

It has to do with flat rates uber is charging passengers. They quote them on what they think the longest route is and then when you drive a different route if it's shorter, then uber wins and we are short changed by uber. Never trust ubers route, take the route you know will get the passenger to their destination in the same time but a longer route in miles. I personally check each fare now and I enjoy when ubers cut is below the 20-25%


----------



## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Slight correction: Uber is cheating the passengers, and failing to cut the driver in on the cheat. With Upfront Pricing, Uber now charges the passenger for a longer route, while directing the driver to take a shorter route. The difference gets lumped into the "service fee."

You can easily see this by getting a fare estimate yourself and comparing it to the amount the passenger paid, then put the pickup and destination addresses into google maps, and you'll see that the passenger got charged for the longer route. 

It's not worth the effort to fight this around town, but if you are going on a longer trip, check with google and find the route Uber is using and take it so you get your cut of the skim. I have found several instances where the route the passenger paid for was 4, 5 even 15 miles different to the route Uber's navigation directed me to go.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

WaveRunner1 said:


> I question the legality. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. How can a 3rd party overcharge a payer (rider) and then take an additional cut from what they paid to the payee (driver).


This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?

The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?

If I tell a sub contractor that I need something done for $20 and he says sure. Is it any of his business how much I end up selling his services for to my customer? Did I cheat this subcontractor if I ended up reselling his good or services for $30? $40? $50?



Atom guy said:


> Slight correction: Uber is cheating the passengers, and failing to cut the driver in on the cheat. With Upfront Pricing, Uber now charges the passenger for a longer route, while directing the driver to take a shorter route. The difference gets lumped into the "service fee."
> 
> You can easily see this by getting a fare estimate yourself and comparing it to the amount the passenger paid, then put the pickup and destination addresses into google maps, and you'll see that the passenger got charged for the longer route.
> 
> It's not worth the effort to fight this around town, but if you are going on a longer trip, check with google and find the route Uber is using and take it so you get your cut of the skim. I have found several instances where the route the passenger paid for was 4, 5 even 15 miles different to the route Uber's navigation directed me to go.


How exactly is it cheating the customer?

The customer is told a ride will cost $20. They agree to pay $20 for the ride they need. They get into a car, get to their destination and Uber charges them $20. How exactly was the customer cheated?

If Uber is saying $20 but charged $25, then that's different.


----------



## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?
> 
> The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?
> 
> ...


 We already went through this before I believe. It's one thing to upsell to generate a profit, it's another if you're already paying yourself a cut from the actual work performed then pocketing the estimate difference. It's especially corrupt when the estimate is consistently set based on the most inefficient parameters.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

WaveRunner1 said:


> We already went through this before I believe. It's one thing to upsell to generate a profit, it's another if you're already paying yourself a cut from the actual work performed then pocketing the estimate difference. It's especially corrupt when the estimate is consistently set based on the most inefficient parameters.


There is no difference. You have a set rate for your contractors. We all agreed to get paid that set rate. If they can sell it for more and more and more, then there is nothing wrong with any of that.

I'd prefer to get a cut of the bigger charge, but there is nothing corrupt about it. They play a dangerous game, however, as they alienate more and more quality drivers by doing this but there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.

Who dictates that they are being paid the "cut" as you say and that they are limited to that "cut"? The only limit to their "cut" is what the market will bare being charged and what their contractors will accept in exchange for the services. As soon as that formulation collapses, they'll be in trouble in a sense that they won't have quality drivers anymore, but that's a risk they want to take and are entitled to make in a free market.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Doc Bartolo said:


> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65. Uber should get 25% of that which is $4.41 and the driver should get 75% which is $13.24. Uber took $5.49 in service fees for this ride which is 31% or an extra $1.08.
> 
> WHY?


Why not? It's almost like speeding on the freeway. Lots of other people see you speed yet you're not in trouble until you get caught by the proper authorities.
Uber is just taking advantage of the weak and ignorant.
You know that saying on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty that states "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses....Send these to me, the homeless, the tempest tossed..." I could swear that I have seen the exact same quote on Uber's website.


----------



## Mco (May 4, 2016)

In the passenger app, Uber is still telling the passenger that the fare is based on time, distance, booking fee, and base fare. I don't see anywhere in the passenger app that says it that the route is predetermined by them alone and that the driver may or may not take that route. I'm sure that the passenger has no idea that Uber is trying to squeeze every last penny out of them while trying to pay the driver as little as possible. This is why I always try to take a route that does not match what the driver app shows but a route that ensures that I get the most money in time and distance. Since doing this I usually get my take of the fare close to the 80/20. If I know that I'm not going to find a better route for myself, then I will tell the passenger to double check their receipt and for accuracy.


----------



## pcDragon (Oct 11, 2016)

ive also noticed that switching to google maps from uber navigation, the routes are at times wildly different. haven't had a chance though to figure out which is the shorter route...


----------



## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Mco said:


> In the passenger app, Uber is still telling the passenger that the fare is based on time, distance, booking fee, and base fare. I don't see anywhere in the passenger app that says it that the route is predetermined by them alone and that the driver may or may not take that route. I'm sure that the passenger has no idea that Uber is trying to squeeze every last penny out of them while trying to pay the driver as little as possible. This is why I always try to take a route that does not match what the driver app shows but a route that ensures that I get the most money in time and distance. Since doing this I usually get my take of the fare close to the 80/20. If I know that I'm not going to find a better route for myself, then I will tell the passenger to double check their receipt and for accuracy.


If the driver takes a shorter route, the passenger still pays the agreed to, higher fare.



steveK2016 said:


> This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?
> 
> The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?
> 
> ...


It's cheating the customer because the passengers do not know that Uber is charging them for a longer route than necessary. And the passengers have no recourse to be charged less other than to cancel. If a taxi cab driver purposely drove a longer route to overcharge a customer, the customer would complain to the cab company or the taxi commission. With what Uber is doing, there is no one to complain to, and the fact that they are being overcharged is being concealed from them.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Atom guy said:


> If the driver takes a shorter route, the passenger still pays the agreed to, higher fare.
> 
> It's cheating the customer because the passengers do not know that Uber is charging them for a longer route than necessary. And the passengers have no recourse to be charged less other than to cancel. If a taxi cab driver purposely drove a longer route to overcharge a customer, the customer would complain to the cab company or the taxi commission. With what Uber is doing, there is no one to complain to, and the fact that they are being overcharged is being concealed from them.


What law says they have to charge at any specific rate? Whether it's taking a longer route calculation, or instead of charging $0.90 a mile they are charged $1.00 a mile, what law or guide are they breaking by doing so? Again, it's free market capitalism. Uber can charge whatever the market is willing to pay.

"Charging them more then necessary"

What exactly does that mean? Is a Taxi charging more then necessary? Is a Limo charging more then necessary? Is an airline charging more then necessary?

The difference in your analogy is that Taxi's are regulated by said commission. Uber is not. You can petition to be included in such regulation, such as in NYC, so you can get higher rates as well as pay more in fees and permits if that's your cup of tea.

The biggest difference is that Uber rates are not regulated by any commission, so you cannot compare it to taxi and taxi rates. Uber runs off the free market, which I can appreciate as a Libertarian. You'd rather it be run by a commission? No thanks.

Nothing is being conceals, thus the term up front pricing. The price is right there in black and white. They are free to price shop if they want. They are free to decline those prices and take the bus.

Again, the issue isn't about what the pax is paying. Let's just stop pretending like we all moonlight for some Consumer Advocacy group, we don't. It's a good thing that pax are willing to pay more for the services, the fight is with getting Uber to cut in the driver.



Mco said:


> In the passenger app, Uber is still telling the passenger that the fare is based on time, distance, booking fee, and base fare. I don't see anywhere in the passenger app that says it that the route is predetermined by them alone and that the driver may or may not take that route. I'm sure that the passenger has no idea that Uber is trying to squeeze every last penny out of them while trying to pay the driver as little as possible. This is why I always try to take a route that does not match what the driver app shows but a route that ensures that I get the most money in time and distance. Since doing this I usually get my take of the fare close to the 80/20. If I know that I'm not going to find a better route for myself, then I will tell the passenger to double check their receipt and for accuracy.


Did you actually read what the pax app says or are you using confirmation bias to assume that's what the pax app says?

Because I just pulled this from my pax app...










Notice the first line, then the OR, then the second line. So the primary fare is the upfront pricing and the secondary is the rate table.










The fare is subject to change and revert back to the rate table if the length of your trip changes.

All right there in black and white.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

WaveRunner1 said:


> I question the legality. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. How can a 3rd party overcharge a payer (rider) and then take an additional cut from what they paid to the payee (driver).


If you read the fine print of your contract, you'll discover that you are free to charge the rider whatever fare you'd like. Good luck with that.


----------



## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you read the fine print of your contract, you'll discover that you are free to charge the rider whatever fare you'd like. Good luck with that.


I don't charge the riders shit. I wish I did.


----------



## Steve2967 (Jun 14, 2017)

Atom guy said:


> If the driver takes a shorter route, the passenger still pays the agreed to, higher fare.
> 
> It's cheating the customer because the passengers do not know that Uber is charging them for a longer route than necessary. And the passengers have no recourse to be charged less other than to cancel. If a taxi cab driver purposely drove a longer route to overcharge a customer, the customer would complain to the cab company or the taxi commission. With what Uber is doing, there is no one to complain to, and the fact that they are being overcharged is being concealed from them.


If the riders sees the rate and is fine with it, they are not being cheated regardless of how it's calculated.

I guess Walmart cheats customers by charging them $5 fora shirt and not disclosing how much they paid for the shirt.


----------



## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Steve2967 said:


> If the riders sees the rate and is fine with it, they are not being cheated regardless of how it's calculated.
> 
> I guess Walmart cheats customers by charging them $5 fora shirt and not disclosing how much they paid for the shirt.


I don't think that's a fair analogy. A better analogy would be imagining you need renovation work on your house. A third party finds a builder who can help. The third party notifies the builder they will take 25% of whatever the homeowner pays for the project to complete. The third party turns to the homeowner and informs them it will take 40 hours and $10,000 worth of supplies to complete. When the work is complete the homeowner finds out it really took 35 hours and $9000. The third party keeps the difference between the estimate and then forwards the actual work payment to the builder who then has 25% taken off that portion. Do you think every party would satisfactorily agree with this?


----------



## Nomad (Jul 30, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?
> 
> The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?
> 
> ...


The issue really arises from the fact that before the change, passengers were paying by the mile and minute with a few additives here and there for booking fee and various taxes. And so for years now they have been conditioned to believe that the route the driver takes affects their charge. While upfront, flat-rate pricing is good for the passenger because they know exactly what they'll pay no matter what, the condition to judge the driver on whether or not they are "trying to scam the passenger" by taking a longer route is still there. Those judgments can affect our tips and ratings.

It is nefarious at best and will likely be deemed unethical long after Uber makes a few hundred million off of it.

It also creates an atmosphere where drivers who know their cities will earn less money than those aimlessly wandering around, which can indirectly lead to more accidents, more disgruntled "independent contractors," and an even more inexperienced fleet of drivers.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

WaveRunner1 said:


> I don't think that's a fair analogy. A better analogy would be imagining you need renovation work on your house. A third party finds a builder who can help. The third party notifies the builder they will take 25% of whatever the homeowner pays for the project to complete. The third party turns to the homeowner and informs them it will take 40 hours and $10,000 worth of supplies to complete. When the work is complete the homeowner finds out it really took 35 hours and $9000. The third party keeps the difference between the estimate and then forwards the actual work payment to the builder who then has 25% taken off that portion. Do you think every party would satisfactorily agree with this?


Your analogy happens every minute in america. That is the basis of general contract work.

If the third party had the home owner agree to the estimate and then the third part was able to secure the project at an even lower rate, thats called good business management and negotioation.

That happens every single day in America.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

It is to kill off surge as a supply and demand occurrence. Uber has cut the ties between what we are paid and what the passenger pays. Upfront pricing allows them to charge the passenger whatever amount they wish. They are changing how they calculate what the fares should be, and what multipliers should be applied comma by where the pick-up location is, where the drop off location is, and the time of day. For example, an upscale neighborhood will have residents with more disposable income, so Uber will charge them more than the struggling single mother living in the hood. Rush hour in business districts will generate higher rates paid by the passenger. Surge pricing on our end will be a matter of uber trying to lure drivers where they want them when they want them. It's already come to pass that the heat map is merely a suggestion. They will tell you that the timing is off on it and that is why you will be sitting in a sea of red and have a ping come up one block from your location, and have it not be at surge rate at all. BS. Surge does not go from 3.5 to nothing in a matter of a minute or two.

Do yourself a favor, let go of what the passenger pays. At this point in time, that is strictly between them and Uber. Stop viewing the heat map as any sort of indication that you will actually make more money. Use it merely as a suggestion, and go only, initially, by the multiplier that shows when the request comes through. 

Immediately following acceptance of a request, go to the cancel screen and double-check the multiplier. I have seen quite a few instances where there's a multiplier on the request screen that does not show on the cancel screen. If you try to get that from Uber later, they will tell you that you were relying on the heat map and that it was never on the request and that it will not be applied. If the multiplier on the cancel screen is unacceptable to you, cancel the ride.

This is where we are at now. It sucks, but we all signed the contract to continue driving. We can either drive with Uber, or not. We all have our reasons for being here.


----------



## roverman2007 (Jun 23, 2017)

Go4 said:


> Please re-read the TOS you signed to start driving. Drivers get paid a base fare + mileage + time.
> 
> Nothing at all to do with your rider's fare. There is NO 25% that Uber takes. Uber takes everything the rider pays over and above your payment.
> 
> And Yes, Uber is cheating drivers, but legally.


Wrong,

I started driving for Uber almost 2 years ago. it is just in the last 6 months or so that Uber is charging the driver a booking fee. that is a fee the rider should pay not drivers. i see why more are quitting.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


----------



## TyDriver (May 17, 2017)

reads title... "no shit"


----------



## Emages (Apr 30, 2017)

Mco said:


> It has to do with flat rates uber is charging passengers. They quote them on what they think the longest route is and then when you drive a different route if it's shorter, then uber wins and we are short changed by uber. Never trust ubers route, take the route you know will get the passenger to their destination in the same time but a longer route in miles. I personally check each fare now and I enjoy when ubers cut is below the 20-25%


So do you check Uber nav and Google before actually starting your trip?


----------



## Mco (May 4, 2016)

Emages said:


> So do you check Uber nav and Google before actually starting your trip?


I will check google maps if I'm unsure of the route but usually know my area pretty well. I just use common sense most of the time. My market is mostly tourists so they don't always know how to get to their destination. When I have a local I will explain a route, how uber is over charging them, and why I might be taking a route they know is longer. I then of course suggest they take Lyft for better fares and an occasional rider referral


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


 Uber Uber no longer pays out 75% they give you a per mileage rate and in my city it's $0.88 because I started four years ago. in my city there is no longer a base fare and Uber keeps all of the booking fee . I've done a few calculations and I'm getting between 62 and 64 per cent of what the Riders are being charged this is much less than what it was when I started and I'm not happy about it.

I am looking to quit as soon as I possibly can. when I started the rate was a $1.90 per mile there was a base fare and I got 80% of everything and was making about twice what I'm making now . it's sickening the more I think about it considering the fact that exactly 40 years ago I drove a cab in Los Angeles for $0.80 a mile and gasoline was about $0.50 and my apartment rent was 150 per month and the worst part about it was that my taxi lease ($30 per shift) and about $7 to fill the tank was less than it cost me to operate my vehicle today. today the waiting time is about $9 per hour but 40 years ago it was $10 per hour. so if any executives reading this and if you really care , this is complete Insanity. you need to stop because it will bring you down eventually unless of course driverless cars take you to the promised land, that is, if your iinvestors hang in there and keep funding until that day comes, which I doubt.


----------



## Emages (Apr 30, 2017)

Emages said:


> So do you check Uber nav and Google before actually starting your trip?





Mco said:


> I will check google maps if I'm unsure of the route but usually know my area pretty well. I just use common sense most of the time. My market is mostly tourists so they don't always know how to get to their destination. When I have a local I will explain a route, how uber is over charging them, and why I might be taking a route they know is longer. I then of course suggest they take Lyft for better fares and an occasional rider referral


Thanks....Using your strategy, I was able to reap 75% on my latest trips.


----------



## MunaLahore2000 (Aug 30, 2017)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


100 % correct Its not stopping here some they are chargin more thant 31%


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

MunaLahore2000 said:


> 100 % correct Its not stopping here some they are chargin more thant 31%


I see you're from Toronto. Did you get 25% less than $.81/km and $.18/min? Read your driver's agreement carefully. You don't get a percentage of what Uber collects you get a percentage of the km/miles and minutes you drive a pax. Don't worry, 99% of Uber drivers have no clue what they agreed to.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

What Uber is doing is not illegal, but its immoral. They originally told us that we would get 75 or 80% of whatever the pax pays, not counting booking fee. Then they changed it with upfront pricing. But they didnt tell the drivers, we had to figure it out by observation and frustration.

A year from now there will still be drivers just figuring it out, saying "wait a minute, why am I only getting 62.7%?"

The communication from these companies is horrible to non-existent. Half the time the local hubs don't even have answers to basic questions, you would think that the companies would inform their own people.


----------



## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Times up, Uber!


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Mista T said:


> What Uber is doing is not illegal, but its immoral. They originally told us that we would get 75 or 80% of whatever the pax pays, not counting booking fee. Then they changed it with upfront pricing. But they didnt tell the drivers, we had to figure it out by observation and frustration.
> 
> A year from now there will still be drivers just figuring it out, saying "wait a minute, why am I only getting 62.7%?"
> 
> The communication from these companies is horrible to non-existent. Half the time the local hubs don't even have answers to basic questions, you would think that the companies would inform their own people.


Anybody who doesn't understand it at this point is someone who didn't bother to read what they signed. Uber sent out the new contracts. We all have the option of either signing it or not driving. It could definitely be argued that they should have sent us notice of it a few days before it would go into effect, but it could also be argued that they did because we could have just not driven for a couple of days while we decided if we wanted to agree to it or not. If you are still driving, you agreed to it. You don't get to complain about Uber not living up to it's word if you're trying to wriggle out of the responsibility of living up to your own. Next time, read the contract before you sign it.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Atom guy said:


> Slight correction: Uber is cheating the passengers, and failing to cut the driver in on the cheat. With Upfront Pricing, Uber now charges the passenger for a longer route, while directing the driver to take a shorter route. The difference gets lumped into the "service fee."
> 
> You can easily see this by getting a fare estimate yourself and comparing it to the amount the passenger paid, then put the pickup and destination addresses into google maps, and you'll see that the passenger got charged for the longer route.
> 
> It's not worth the effort to fight this around town, but if you are going on a longer trip, check with google and find the route Uber is using and take it so you get your cut of the skim. I have found several instances where the route the passenger paid for was 4, 5 even 15 miles different to the route Uber's navigation directed me to go.


My understanding is that Uber charges not by a longer route, but by what they think the rider will pay. Often Uber has still made out like a bandit even though I took the longest route. I took a pax way out of the way, I got $18.00, she paid $53.00



Coachman said:


> If you read the fine print of your contract, you'll discover that you are free to charge the rider whatever fare you'd like. Good luck with that.


We are not allowed to charge the riders anything


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm willing to bet that Uber charged pax a surge but didnt pass it to you. Very common. I havent seen an Uber surge over 3.0x in months, even after concerts, etc.


Rat said:


> My understanding is that Uber charges not by a longer route, but by what they think the rider will pay. Often Uber has still made out like a bandit even though I took the longest route. I took a pax way out of the way, I got $18.00, she paid $53.00
> 
> We are not allowed to charge the riders anything


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I see you're from Toronto. Did you get 25% less than $.81/km and $.18/min? Read your driver's agreement carefully. You don't get a percentage of what Uber collects you get a percentage of the km/miles and minutes you drive a pax. Don't worry, 99% of Uber drivers have no clue what they agreed to.


Uber changed the TOS after they started charging the extra "service fee". Anything before that was violating the TOS.



Mista T said:


> I'm willing to bet that Uber charged pax a surge but didnt pass it to you. Very common. I havent seen an Uber surge over 3.0x in months, even after concerts, etc.


Picked her up at the airport. Airport contract forbids charging any surge here.



SuzeCB said:


> Anybody who doesn't understand it at this point is someone who didn't bother to read what they signed. Uber sent out the new contracts. We all have the option of either signing it or not driving. It could definitely be argued that they should have sent us notice of it a few days before it would go into effect, but it could also be argued that they did because we could have just not driven for a couple of days while we decided if we wanted to agree to it or not. If you are still driving, you agreed to it. You don't get to complain about Uber not living up to it's word if you're trying to wriggle out of the responsibility of living up to your own. Next time, read the contract before you sign it.


Uber was charging the extra "service fee" before they changed the contract


----------



## Ted L. (Jun 8, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you read the fine print of your contract, you'll discover that you are free to charge the rider whatever fare you'd like. Good luck with that.


Have you ever tried it? I had a ride that I got paid $3.71 but the rider was charged $9.42. I contacted support to reduce the fare but they refused.



> The price we display to the rider includes fees paid to Uber (the Uber service fee and booking fee) and in some cases, tolls and fees collected by third parties (such as airports). Additionally, we often provide discounts to riders to encourage them to use our service.
> 
> You will always earn based on the actual time and distance rates displayed in your Partner Dashboard. Sometimes that will be more than what a rider pays, and sometimes it will be less. You can always see a full breakdown of your fare in your Partner Dashboard, which includes what the rider paid, and what you earned. So we are unable to adjust this trip fare.
> 
> Please let us know if you have any questions.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Ted L. said:


> Have you ever tried it? I had a ride that I got paid $3.71 but the rider was charged $9.42. I contacted support to reduce the fare but they refused.


You can tell Uber to reduce your $3.71 cut to any amount you want. You want it reduced to $1, theyll do it. But they won't reduce what they made. You are entitled to negotiate fare of your calculated fare.


----------



## Dchap08 (Jul 29, 2017)

This is an answer from uber when I had the exact same situation.
They can, and do, charge the passenger any rate they deem necessary, and we are always paid the same rate (surge is the exception).

Basically, they can charge the pax whatever they want, and you always get the same rate.


----------



## Lewis2 (May 21, 2017)

Uber Can't Ditch Drivers' Pricing Class Action, Judge Says.
Go read it at News section. 

I have feelings that Uber quote higher price if the pickup is at expensive residential area. One of the ride from a over million dollars residents, Ubers service fee is 40% of the fare and they told me that there was no surge or tips on that ride. What a scam!


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

And the sky is Blue.


" LOWER RATES MEAN MORE MONEY !"


----------



## Ted L. (Jun 8, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> You can tell Uber to reduce your $3.71 cut to any amount you want. You want it reduced to $1, theyll do it. But they won't reduce what they made. You are entitled to negotiate fare of your calculated fare.


That's not my understanding. As long as the negotiated fare covers the booking (and if applicable service) fee the remaining portion is split 75-25. The reason they refused is because such a split would give me more than I was making on the meter.


----------



## M.209 (Aug 16, 2017)

Indeed

Read more at https://qz.com/956139/uber-drivers-...h-riders-to-check-their-pay-from-the-company/

"Before I start my trip, I usually go into the app for the rider and see how much it would be to go from where I picked them up to where I'm going to drop them off," Jose Molina, an Uber driver in New York City, told me last week. Then he takes a screenshot. "Once it's done, I'll check on my app to see how much they paid me, to see if there's a difference," he said.

Sounds like it is


----------



## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

It isn't cheating to charge customer what u think they will pay. Uber msde uo the rates. They aren't ordained by god. How much it costs Uber to provide the service they charge customers for is a separate issue. That's where we come in. Ideally for them they pay us as little as possible while charging the customer as much as possible. This isnt some devious Uber behavior. It's capitalism. Whether we're ind contactors or not makes no difference. They contract with us to provide rides for their customers, for the amount they contracted to pay us per mile and minute. It's not cheating. If u want to charge whatever u want to charge, u have to get yr own customers. These are Uber's customers. I wish more of the citizens would get upset at capitalism in general as they do at Uber. But really these "Uber is cheating" people usually only care about themselves being paid more.


----------



## M.209 (Aug 16, 2017)

It is cheating when business shows different total charge.


----------



## Yozee (Jun 7, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?
> 
> The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?
> 
> ...


Most often trip ends up costing way less than quoted, why doesn't uber refund the money? Why doesn't uber share the difference with driver? Uber is SCREWING both riders & drivers!


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Yozee said:


> Most often trip ends up costing way less than quoted, why doesn't uber refund the money? Why doesn't uber share the difference with driver? Uber is SCREWING both riders & drivers!


Then why did you agree to the last contract change? That's when you agreed to all of this.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Agree or be deactivated, duh


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


It's been said many times already, but disregard all payment details and formulas Uber used prior to May 2017


----------



## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

Too many Uber posters here on this issue. When we onboarded there was only a single fare calculation. No reference to two sets of fare calculations was included. The dominant factor is miles + time + booking fee = fare...as in a single fare. Uber did not mention anything about two sets of fare calculations. And, if we don't agree to new up front fare calcs, we get deactivated. Everyone wants to keep driving...we had no choice. I think a judge will see right thru this baloney bs.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?
> 
> The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?
> 
> ...


Its cheating because passengers should be charged the rate that is listed on the app only plus the ride and safety fee and surge if there is any. The ride estimate that uber gives is somehow calulated through the app, and it should only be an estimate. The app should be tracking the actual correct miles and time according to each ride given, however in most cases if you check it usually charges passengers more than the actual miles and time and of course uber keeps the difference. There are several ways to manage this, you could request uber to refund the passenger the difference because they were overcharged. You could also inform the passenger to check their rates, and then to email uber themselves if there is difference so they can get a refund. I have personally done this with lyft as a passenger because they do it too i was over charged. They did refund me the difference even though it was $1.75 I dont care why should they get to keep extra? This is how ride share companies are doing since they started with their upfront pricing scheme. You have to be smart both as a driver and passenger and if you just do the math you will see that estimate rarely equals the actual fare that is calucated. To me its shady business, so let passengers know too. Some of these passengers dont care but others do. There is a class action lawsuit going about this against uber. The upfront pricing scam has been going on since they changed their app to no longer see surge.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Loralie said:


> Its cheating because passengers should be charged the rate that is listed on the app only plus the ride and safety fee and surge if there is any. The ride estimate that uber gives is somehow calulated through the app, and it should only be an estimate. The app should be tracking the actual correct miles and time according to each ride given, however in most cases if you check it usually charges passengers more than the actual miles and time and of course uber keeps the difference. There are several ways to manage this, you could request uber to refund the passenger the difference because they were overcharged. You could also inform the passenger to check their rates, and then to email uber themselves if there is difference so they can get a refund. I have personally done this with lyft as a passenger because they do it too i was over charged. They did refund me the difference even though it was $1.75 I dont care why should they get to keep extra? This is how ride share companies are doing since they started with their upfront pricing scheme. You have to be smart both as a driver and passenger and if you just do the math you will see that estimate rarely equals the actual fare that is calucated. To me its shady business, so let passengers know too. Some of these passengers dont care but others do. There is a class action lawsuit going about this against uber. The upfront pricing scam has been going on since they changed their app to no longer see surge.


So whats the difference between upfront pricing and surge?


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Im fighting a ride that displayed at 21.32 right after the ride then later it was 20.30.They are so full of tricks.

The trick is they shaved at least 6 minutes off the ride.The mileage seams right.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> This is the basis of hiring independent contractors. Middlemen, resellers, facilitators charge their customers more then what they pay their contractors. How else do they make a profit?
> 
> The relativity of the term overcharge is a misnomer. Overcharged compared to what?
> 
> ...


They didnt say it will cost $20, it should be more or less an estimate. They cheat the passengers because if you look at the rates and then do the calucation, it turns out the passengers were over charged in alot of cases. Its not right to list a rate, and then actually pay more than the rate that is stated there on the app. So why not adjust the ride to the actual time and miles instead of uber keeping the difference. Not only are they cheating passengers, but they are charging passengers different amounts depending on the time of day, neighborhood they live, and how much they are willing to pay for certain rides at certain times. They are collecting and using all of the data and trying different ways such as offering discounts to some people and then charging more to others who have been willing to pay more for their rides. These rides they will make more money on because the passenger lives in a certain area of the city and in alot of cases they seem to make alot on short rides because they seem to tag on an additional $1.50 or even $2.00 more if they see the passenger has been paying that price in the past. They are tricking people thats what they are doing. Its obvious if you look at the breakdown of the ride than we as drivers can see but most passengers rarely look and if they do im not even sure they can see all the ride information on the trip reciept. Alot of the time uber is losing money on rides with boosts and also subscription services which they have here in Sf.
But they seem to make the money back by overcharging on other rides so that they can cover the cost of subsidizing drivers with boosts,quests and promos. Either way its shady. And its not just uber, lyft is overcharging passengers too. They both do it and its shady for sure. Both apps have a time and mile rate. The price can easily be adjusted and calucated to reflect the actual time and miles on the app at the end of the ride, but it is more than obvious that they are using upfront pricing to in alot of cases overcharge the customers and keep them oblivious to whats really going on.



steveK2016 said:


> So whats the difference between upfront pricing and surge?


Upfront pricing should just be an estimate, the actual time and miles should be what you paying. Plus surge if there is any. Before the passenger app used to show surge and it was helpful to understand. Now because the passenger app dosent show surge the passenger is completely in the dark about what the mulplier is, amongst other things such rate and time, most passengers either dont care or dont have time to check or ask the driver for this info. Of course me as passenger i probably would want to know what i am being charged.


----------



## Saltyoldman (Oct 18, 2016)

You don’t say.......


----------



## Transporter_011 (Feb 3, 2018)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


I'm sure if you send them a nice message they'll get right back to you on this.

#RESOLVED


----------



## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...ds-of-uber-drivers-who-say-they-were-stiffed/


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Loralie said:


> They didnt say it will cost $20, it should be more or less an estimate. They cheat the passengers because if you look at the rates and then do the calucation, it turns out the passengers were over charged in alot of cases. Its not right to list a rate, and then actually pay more than the rate that is stated there on the app. So why not adjust the ride to the actual time and miles instead of uber keeping the difference. Not only are they cheating passengers, but they are charging passengers different amounts depending on the time of day, neighborhood they live, and how much they are willing to pay for certain rides at certain times. They are collecting and using all of the data and trying different ways such as offering discounts to some people and then charging more to others who have been willing to pay more for their rides. These rides they will make more money on because the passenger lives in a certain area of the city and in alot of cases they seem to make alot on short rides because they seem to tag on an additional $1.50 or even $2.00 more if they see the passenger has been paying that price in the past. They are tricking people thats what they are doing. Its obvious if you look at the breakdown of the ride than we as drivers can see but most passengers rarely look and if they do im not even sure they can see all the ride information on the trip reciept. Alot of the time uber is losing money on rides with boosts and also subscription services which they have here in Sf.
> But they seem to make the money back by overcharging on other rides so that they can cover the cost of subsidizing drivers with boosts,quests and promos. Either way its shady. And its not just uber, lyft is overcharging passengers too. They both do it and its shady for sure. Both apps have a time and mile rate. The price can easily be adjusted and calucated to reflect the actual time and miles on the app at the end of the ride, but it is more than obvious that they are using upfront pricing to in alot of cases overcharge the customers and keep them oblivious to whats really going on.
> 
> Upfront pricing should just be an estimate, the actual time and miles should be what you paying. Plus surge if there is any. Before the passenger app used to show surge and it was helpful to understand. Now because the passenger app dosent show surge the passenger is completely in the dark about what the mulplier is, amongst other things such rate and time, most passengers either dont care or dont have time to check or ask the driver for this info. Of course me as passenger i probably would want to know what i am being charged.


Overcharged based on what?

You still didnt answer the question: what is the difference (to the pax) between current upfront pricing and surges? What upfront pricing should be is irrelevent to the question.

I'll go ahead and answer the question. There is no difference to the pax.

If You accept that surges is not ripping the customer off then you cannot say the upfront pricing does. Its essentially the exacr same mechanism.

The only difference is driver compensarion which is irrelevent to the pax.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Loralie said:


> Upfront pricing should just be an estimate, the actual time and miles should be what you paying.


What exactly do you think "upfront pricing" means? An estimate is what it was before. The whole point of upfront pricing is so that the pax knows exactly what they are paying (long or short, right or wrong, no guessing involved). Uber is taking a gamble with it which most often goes in Uber's favor (as they guess the longest probable route), but occasionally might actually work against them (imagine a massive crash along primary routes requiring a very long detour).

It also makes the argument about us going the long way to gouge the pax go away (although now it's uber directly gouging the pax, but the pax remain blissfully ignorant of that). Now if we go the long (distance) way (and in some situations you probably should) it's uber that we're doing it to, not the pax.

Base plus miles plus time is what we are getting paid (same as before). What the pax pays uber is between them and Uber, if they're ok with uber gouging them, that's kinda their problem, ya know? At least now if we choose to go the longer way, they can't really get upset because their charge will be the same no matter what (within reason of course, I'd imagine if I went 10 miles out of the way they'd still be upset lol).

If someone actually asks me about the upfront pricing and how it really works I'll tell them that they are just paying in advance for the longest probable route. If they want to take that up with Uber they are more than welcome to. I have enough stress worrying about the driver side of it, and don't need to advocate for what the pax pays too.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Atom guy said:


> If the driver takes a shorter route, the passenger still pays the agreed to, higher fare.
> 
> It's cheating the customer because the passengers do not know that Uber is charging them for a longer route than necessary. And the passengers have no recourse to be charged less other than to cancel. If a taxi cab driver purposely drove a longer route to overcharge a customer, the customer would complain to the cab company or the taxi commission. With what Uber is doing, there is no one to complain to, and the fact that they are being overcharged is being concealed from them.


Actually, I think they can write to Uber afterwards and ask to be charged according to the standard rates. At that point, Uber will look at what they paid you and use that mileage and time to assess the fare. Of course, if you have taken a longer route than Uber planned on, the Pax may not actually get any money back from it.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> So whats the difference between upfront pricing and surge?


I get the argument you have here, but these are 2 seperate issues. Before upfront pricing was introduced, there was always surge pricing and it showed the multiplier on the passenger app before the ride request was made so I dont think that is the issue. And lyft still shows the primetime muliplier but uber stopped showing that info a while ago. The actual ride calculation and unfront fare cost does not equal the same. The issue is that uber is manipulating these up front fares in the uber passenger app, whether or not surge pricing is applied. It is the upfront fare that is found in most cases to be usually more than the actual fare, and the uber passenger app was designed to calculate the longest routes and keep the difference. Instead of adjusting it to the correct price according to the actual distance plus time plus, surge. And also yes i do believe both companies and do at times manipulate surges and upfront pricing,
as well as not show certain information intentionally to both drivers and passengers on the app to keep them oblivous to how much they are getting ripped off.



Pawtism said:


> What exactly do you think "upfront pricing" means? An estimate is what it was before. The whole point of upfront pricing is so that the pax knows exactly what they are paying (long or short, right or wrong, no guessing involved). Uber is taking a gamble with it which most often goes in Uber's favor (as they guess the longest probable route), but occasionally might actually work against them (imagine a massive crash along primary routes requiring a very long detour).
> 
> It also makes the argument about us going the long way to gouge the pax go away (although now it's uber directly gouging the pax, but the pax remain blissfully ignorant of that). Now if we go the long (distance) way (and in some situations you probably should) it's uber that we're doing it to, not the pax.
> 
> ...


True you might as well try to get the most out of it, I usally try to drive the longest routes within a reasonable amount of time. I agree for not having time or to advocate for the passenger i dont really care that much either. Thats a good explanation i might have to use that one. Though whenever i tell passengers about getting charged more they appear shocked as if they didnt even know there was such a thing as mile and time rates they dont even know how to find it in the app. I dont get how clueless some of these people are. They dont mind getting charged more for no good reason they should take it up with uber i totally agree. I usually try to get as much out of the upfront fare as i can.
As a a exactly do you think "upfront pricing" means? An estimate is what it was before. The whole point of upfront pricing is so that the pax knows exactly what they are paying (long or short, right or wrong, no guessing involved). Uber is taking a gamble with it which most often goes in Uber's favor (as they guess the longest probable route), but occasionally might actually work against them (imagine a massive crash along primary routes requiring a very long detour).

It also makes the argument about us going the long way to gouge the pax go away (although now it's uber directly gouging the pax, but the pax remain blissfully ignorant of that). Now if we go the long (distance) way (and in some situations you probably should) it's uber that we're doing it to, not the pax.

Base plus miles plus time is what we are getting paid (same as before). What the pax pays uber is between them and Uber, if they're ok with uber gouging them, that's kinda their problem, ya know? At least now if we choose to go the longer way, they can't really get upset because their charge will be the same no matter what (within reason of course, I'd imagine if I went 10 miles out of the way they'd still be upset lol).

If someone actually asks me about the upfront pricing and how it really works I'll tell them that they are just paying in advance for the longest probable route. If they want to take that up with Uber they are more than welcome to. I have enough stress worrying about the driver side of it, and don't need to advocate for what the pax pays too.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Kmart888 (May 6, 2016)

Loralie said:


> I get the argument you have here, but these are 2 seperate issues. Before upfront pricing was introduced, there was always surge pricing and it showed the multiplier on the passenger app before the ride request was made so I dont think that is the issue. And lyft still shows the primetime muliplier but uber stopped showing that info a while ago. The actual ride calculation and unfront fare cost does not equal the same. The issue is that uber is manipulating these up front fares in the uber passenger app, whether or not surge pricing is applied. It is the upfront fare that is found in most cases to be usually more than the actual fare, and the uber passenger app was designed to calculate the longest routes and keep the difference. Instead of adjusting it to the correct price according to the actual distance plus time plus, surge. And also yes i do believe both companies and do at times manipulate surges and upfront pricing,
> as well as not show certain information intentionally to both drivers and passengers on the app to keep them oblivous to how much they are getting ripped off.
> 
> True you might as well try to get the most out of it, I usally try to drive the longest routes within a reasonable amount of time. I agree for not having time or to advocate for the passenger i dont really care that much either. Thats a good explanation i might have to use that one. Though whenever i tell passengers about getting charged more they appear shocked as if they didnt even know there was such a thing as mile and time rates they dont even know how to find it in the app. I dont get how clueless some of these people are. They dont mind getting charged more for no good reason they should take it up with uber i totally agree. I usually try to get as much out of the upfront fare as i can.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

As of this week I can no longer see how much the pax pays, it only shows the base rate ($0.90/mi + $0.15/min + booking fee & whatever = so-called "FARE") then 20% is deducted for Uber. What the pax actually pays WHO KNOWS!


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

I saw today... That for an airport surge ride at 2.0x the passenger payed at least $10.00 over the actual fare for NOTHING. I was payed out $41.00 the passenger payed $64. They should have payed $54

Im curious that if lets say one of us emails uber and tell them that the passenger was overcharged after doing the actual time and mile calculation, if they are still entitled to by law adjust it to the actual real price. Not sure what the laws are on the passenger app. I am almost tempted to try just to see what they would do as an experiment.


Yozee said:


> Most often trip ends up costing way less than quoted, why doesn't uber refund the money? Why doesn't uber share the difference with driver? Uber is SCREWING both riders & drivers![/QUOTE


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Uber has ALWAYS CHEATED DRIVERS !

Just be glad youre NOT AN INVESTOR !


----------



## Driver2448 (Mar 8, 2017)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


Passengers are also cheating drivers by not tipping.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Driver2448 said:


> Passengers are also cheating drivers by not tipping.


Uber ENDORSED IT !


----------



## Amy13 (Mar 19, 2018)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


I had a 73.00 ride toda and only recieved 50.00 ...really?????


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

WaveRunner1 said:


> I question the legality. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. How can a 3rd party overcharge a payer (rider) and then take an additional cut from what they paid to the payee (driver).


retailers do this kind of thing all the time. They pay dirt cheap for someone to produce a widget and than charge a much higher price for that widget. What Walmart for example pays someone for a water bottle has no relationship to what walmart will charge for that water bottle.



Driver2448 said:


> Passengers are also cheating drivers by not tipping.


There is no requirement to tip.... tips are voluntary so passengers are not cheating drivers in any way by not providing something that is completely voluntary to provide.


----------



## Amy13 (Mar 19, 2018)

Amy13 said:


> I had a 73.00 ride toda and only recieved 50.00 ...really?????


I had a 73.00 ride and only recieved 44.00,bits ridiculous.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Amy13 said:


> I had a 73.00 ride and only recieved 44.00,bits ridiculous.


Did you receive the proper amount that you agreed to get for base, miles, and minutes? You're not paid according to percentages anymore.


----------



## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> retailers do this kind of thing all the time. They pay dirt cheap for someone to produce a widget and than charge a much higher price for that widget. What Walmart for example pays someone for a water bottle has no relationship to what walmart will charge for that water bottle.
> 
> There is no requirement to tip.... tips are voluntary so passengers are not cheating drivers in any way by not providing something that is completely voluntary to provide.


That isn't a realistic comparison. Uber isn't a retailer. It's a third party. The passenger is deliberately charged excessively. You can't compare a product and a service.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

WaveRunner1 said:


> That isn't a realistic comparison. Uber isn't a retailer. It's a third party. The passenger is deliberately charged excessively. You can't compare a product and a service.


Sure you can the retailer is also a third party that stands between the person who made the product or service and the the person purchasing the product or service, it is the exact same thing. Uber purchases our service at a given price per mile and minute and resales that service at whatever price they can get... even at a loss to Uber from time to time.


----------



## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Mco said:


> In the passenger app, Uber is still telling the passenger that the fare is based on time, distance, booking fee, and base fare. I don't see anywhere in the passenger app that says it that the route is predetermined by them alone and that the driver may or may not take that route. I'm sure that the passenger has no idea that Uber is trying to squeeze every last penny out of them while trying to pay the driver as little as possible. This is why I always try to take a route that does not match what the driver app shows but a route that ensures that I get the most money in time and distance. Since doing this I usually get my take of the fare close to the 80/20. If I know that I'm not going to find a better route for myself, then I will tell the passenger to double check their receipt and for accuracy.


I will better you one...check what UBER pays you vs what the actual amount should have been ...3/4 to 1.5 mile per trip...not alot to the average joe but millions to the giant


----------



## JayLeeKou (Mar 5, 2018)

Please call Uber support at *(800) 593-7069*. Then please press 1 for English and 8 for other issues. This is very important to make complaints important regarding discrimination such as permanent deactivation and please always get involved with the advanced support team as it is very important.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

Retails what? What are you talking about. This is cheating straight up. No comparrison to walmart or any retail stores. We are performing a service with cars that we own and pay for. They dont own the car and they dont pay for the costs of keeping the car repaired and the gas do they? Who pays for the insurance too? This is not the same stop compairing it to retail companies.


Uberfunitis said:


> Sure you can the retailer is also a third party that stands between the person who made the product or service and the the person purchasing the product or service, it is the exact same thing. Uber purchases our service at a given price per mile and minute and resales that service at whatever price they can get... even at a loss to Uber from time to time.


s wh


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Ok, let's compare service to service if it's easier for people to process. You go to the mechanic to get your "whatever" replaced (struts, some kinda rod, you know.. "whatever", I'm not a car guy hehe). They look in their labor book and it says it will take 2 hours, so they charge you the for the part (let's say 150), 2 hours labor (at 50 bucks an hour) and "shop supplies" at like 20 bucks. 

First, do you really think that they paid 150 for that part? Not likely, they paid less than 100 I'm sure. Second, do you think the mechanic doing the labor is getting 50 bucks an hour? Again, not likely, more like 20 (if he's lucky). Third, the 20 bucks in shop supplies is one of those things where they set a price and one job might use a bit more than that, and others less, but I can assure you that over all they come out ahead on that too. Lastly, the job only winds up actually taking an hour and 10 minutes. Those labor guides are like Uber's pricing, set to the longest that it should likely take someone to do, allowing for an unexpected issue to be solved. So do you think they refund or charge less for that extra 50 minutes? Of course not. However, you can be sure that after 1 hour and 10 minutes that mechanic was told to start a different job, so he got screwed out of that 50 minutes (even at 20 an hour).

So there you go, service to service... You (both the customer and the mechanic in this case) actually get reamed more by a service than you would a retailer (because they can get you at multiple points). So I'll agree with those who said it's not the same... It's worse.

As for the insurance argument, mechanic is a good example too. The shop has some of it's own tools and equipment (specialized stuff usually, like the computer alignment stuff and whatnot) but mechanics are expected to have their own tools as well (which they have to buy out of their own pocket). Much like Uber carries it's own insurance, but we're expected to have our legally required minimums and provide our own gas.


----------



## UberCheese (Sep 3, 2017)

People generally hate capitalism when it doesn't benefit them, or they're not currently being fooled into believing it does.



Strange Fruit said:


> It isn't cheating to charge customer what u think they will pay. Uber msde uo the rates. They aren't ordained by god. How much it costs Uber to provide the service they charge customers for is a separate issue. That's where we come in. Ideally for them they pay us as little as possible while charging the customer as much as possible. This isnt some devious Uber behavior. It's capitalism. Whether we're ind contactors or not makes no difference. They contract with us to provide rides for their customers, for the amount they contracted to pay us per mile and minute. It's not cheating. If u want to charge whatever u want to charge, u have to get yr own customers. These are Uber's customers. I wish more of the citizens would get upset at capitalism in general as they do at Uber. But really these "Uber is cheating" people usually only care about themselves being paid more.


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

if i have already purchased the tools for the job, and the contract is changed midway through the job, that is a breach of contract. also, i am contracting with pax almost directly and using my phone and some simple gps technology integrated with ip, I am being ripped off (and ripping people off is illegal, no matter the loopholes or bribes) if i am paying an unreasonable percentage that zis constantly being leveraged against me in favor of some very simple technology that was thought up decades ago.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

unadhesived said:


> if i have already purchased the tools for the job, and the contract is changed midway through the job, that is a breach of contract. also, i am contracting with pax almost directly and using my phone and some simple gps technology integrated with ip, I am being ripped off (and ripping people off is illegal, no matter the loopholes or bribes) if i am paying an unreasonable percentage that zis constantly being leveraged against me in favor of some very simple technology that was thought up decades ago.


That's another misconception that drivers who don't understand how IC works have. You are not contracted with the pax, you are contracted with Uber, and the pax is contracted with Uber. Just as the mechanic isn't an employee of the customer, they are an employee of the shop, and the customer is a customer of the shop. So you aren't being "ripped off". Is Uber offering a crappy deal? Of course! But if we agree to their crappy deal, then the only person "ripping us off" is us.

Look at the mechanic example I gave, now imagine the shop suddenly says "ok, we're going to start hiring all the new mechanics (as the old ones are employees, they are actually protected and can't be reduced) at 15 an hour instead of 20, but we're raising the shop labor rate to 60. Would you want to work there? That would be a personal choice (I'd say no, but I'm sure someone would say yes).


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

WaveRunner1 said:


> That isn't a realistic comparison. Uber isn't a retailer. It's a third party. The passenger is deliberately charged excessively. You can't compare a product and a service.


Uber sells B.S. !


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

go buy an orange suit for 30 grand ill pay you x to wear it to my jail everyday for 8 hours. couple weeks later i stop you at lunch and say you still wear your orange suit but now i pay you less. even though the job is still open and has demand. + on top of that, the amount i will pay you now will not cover the cost of the orange suit a and your rickshaw fare to my jail. ornit may cover the actual cost, but the venture will no longer be profitable for you. now only one party benefits, after the contract alteration, going directly from capitalism to serfdom in an instant. not. even. close. to. lawful.

the contract has changed. one party has altered the contract midway. that is a breach.

can i at least show financial injury on paper? I have a tort. I can sue.

also, no one can give up their rights by signing them away. as much as uber hopes that is going to work out.


also, monopolies are illegal because of the unfair leverage and they tend to take advantage of people.

+ you have a big heavy orange suit you are still paying for long after the bait and switch con has been perped


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

unadhesived said:


> go buy an orange suit for 30 grand ill pay you x to wear it to my jail everyday for 8 hours. couple weeks later i stop you at lunch and say you still wear your orange suit but now i pay you less. even though the job is still open and has demand. + on top of that, the amount i will pay you now will not cover the cost of the orange suit a and your rickshaw fare to my jail. ornit may cover the actual cost, but the venture will no longer be profitable for you. now only one party benefits, after the contract alteration, going directly from capitalism to serfdom in an instant. not. even. close. to. lawful.
> 
> the contract has changed. one party has altered the contract midway. that is a breach.
> 
> ...


When the pay is low enough (or the cost of the orange suits goes high enough), I leave your jail (only I could decide when it was low enough that it simply wasn't worth it for me). It's really that simple. As for suing, anyone can sue anyone for anything (although there is an arbitration agreement you made as well, so you may have to go through that process first). How far it gets depends on the strength of the case. Tort law is very specific on what they would consider damages (financial injury). So it would depend on what your damages are. If you're argument is "they lowered the rates", the first point the other side is going to make is "if you didn't like the rates, why did you accept the new contract?" Hint: there is almost no reason that someone can come up with that would explain that away, short of "they (literally) had a gun to my head" (such as "make him an offer he can't refuse" style).

What rights do you think the contract is making you give up? Actually think this through before you answer. Many people think they have rights they don't have. Contrary to popular belief, you actually don't have a "right" to better pay. As for the monopoly argument, Uber is not a monopoly (although if I ran Amazon I might start to worry hehe), there is Lyft virtually anywhere Uber is, and in many markets there are several others. Frankly, that is probably one of the reasons Uber and Lyft, while obviously competitors, haven't actually tried to completely eliminate the other one (they need each other as competitors, otherwise someone might make an anti-trust claim). As as side note, that's also why Microsoft saved Apple when they were at deaths door in the 90s. Many people don't know that Microsoft swooped in and bought, I believe it was 40%, of Apple when they were about to have to shut their doors, so they could stay open. Same reason, to avoid anti-trust (so they wouldn't be declared a monopoly).

People keep coming on here because they feel aggrieved, but don't actually look into the legalities of it all. Bottom line, it's standard fair market principles. Uber's job is to find the bare minimum limit they will pay and people will keep driving. Our job is to get the most money we can (and quit driving and do something else when they pay goes below the threshold of what we're willing to take). That's one of the reasons I haven't driven in 5 months (and don't plan to any time soon). If they up the pay, maybe I'll drive more. However, clearly the bottom has not yet been reached, because people are still driving. They'll keep pushing it down until enough drivers stop.

No one is forcing you to drive (like with a gun, and if they are, you should bump into the first patrol car you see). If the rates aren't satisfactory, don't drive, when enough stop driving they'll bring the rates back up (a bit).


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

i have an empty farm. my neighbor has a lettuce farm. he posts an ad saying he needs celery. i start growing celery. we decide to trade. i walk to the middle of the road to meet him. we exchange veggies. we do this like 10 times. the 11th time, i hand him the celery and he only hands over half the lettuce. he says i got the memo in my mailbox 3 days ago that he can do this now, him or his predocessors hired a lawyer or a think tank to rewrite basic common law in the local crackpot jurisdiction. but a con is a con. and consent cant be nonconsentual.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> That's another misconception that drivers who don't understand how IC works have. You are not contracted with the pax, you are contracted with Uber, and the pax is contracted with Uber. Just as the mechanic isn't an employee of the customer, they are an employee of the shop, and the customer is a customer of the shop. So you aren't being "ripped off". Is Uber offering a crappy deal? Of course! But if we agree to their crappy deal, then the only person "ripping us off" is us.
> 
> Look at the mechanic example I gave, now imagine the shop suddenly says "ok, we're going to start hiring all the new mechanics (as the old ones are employees, they are actually protected and can't be reduced) at 15 an hour instead of 20, but we're raising the shop labor rate to 60. Would you want to work there? That would be a personal choice (I'd say no, but I'm sure someone would say yes).


No they are ripping the passengers off too by not adjusting to not charging the acutal time and miles. So not only is your "'middleman" ripping off the drivers they are over charging for rides. Your still wrong. The mechanic who the does the work dosent pay for his own tools does he, like the gas and the actual car we pay for to run our own "company". We should we charging the rates and giving uber what cut we want it should be the other way around. We are "independent contractors" , we are the ones payong for our equipment and doing the service which means we should be charging what we want not uber.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

unadhesived said:


> i have an empty farm. my neighbor has a lettuce farm. he posts an ad saying he needs celery. i start growing celery. we decide to trade. i walk to the middle of the road to meet him. we exchange veggies. we do this like 10 times. the 11th time, i hand him the celery and he only hands over half the lettuce. he says i got the memo in my mailbox 3 days ago that he can do this now, him or his predocessors hired a lawyer or a think tank to rewrite basic common law in the local crackpot jurisdiction. but a con is a con. and consent cant be nonconsentual.


You left out a part. Not only did you in fact get the letter, you replied back saying ok. Retell your story with that in it, and see if that changes your thinking.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

unadhesived said:


> go buy an orange suit for 30 grand ill pay you x to wear it to my jail everyday for 8 hours. couple weeks later i stop you at lunch and say you still wear your orange suit but now i pay you less. even though the job is still open and has demand. + on top of that, the amount i will pay you now will not cover the cost of the orange suit a and your rickshaw fare to my jail. ornit may cover the actual cost, but the venture will no longer be profitable for you. now only one party benefits, after the contract alteration, going directly from capitalism to serfdom in an instant. not. even. close. to. lawful.
> 
> the contract has changed. one party has altered the contract midway. that is a breach.
> 
> ...


There are lawsuits already about this!!! Exactly!!! This moderator person thinks its fine to scam people. Lets actually see what the courts say. Person sounds like troll to me. Its wrong what they are doing, uneithical and also it is a scam. I want to see what the courts rule on the case i dont need some troll in here to try to explain how ****ed up capitalism is.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Loralie said:


> No they are ripping the passengers off too by not adjusting to not charging the acutal time and miles. So not only is your "'middleman" ripping off the drivers they are charging for over priced rides. Your still wrong. The mechanic who the does the work dosent pay for his own tools does he, like the gas and the actual car we pay for to run our own "company". We should we charging the rates and giving uber what cut we want it should be the other way around. We are "independent contractors" , we are the ones payong for our equipment and doing the service which means we should be charging what we want not uber.


They are ripping off the pax also, yes (as is the mechanic shop in charging the 2 hours labor when it only took 1 hour and 10 minute). I used to be the office manager at a mechanic and tire shop. The mechanics do, in fact, provide their own tools. The shop provides some as well, such as the lifts, the computer alignment type stuff (wheels, steering, etc), the emissions machine, etc. But the hand tools are the mechanics (and they are very protective of them too). Again, you are independent contractors, which make the situation actually worse for you than an employee.

Your contract is with Uber/Lyft, not the pax. I avoided the pax side of it to avoid confusion but you are correct, the pax are getting screwed too. Their contract is also with Uber/Lyft. They are paying for long haul rates, even though they're not being long hauled. But they agreed to it also, just as you did to your rates. Uber will keep raising their fees to the pax until the pax stop riding, just as they'll keep lowing our rates until we stop driving. If you want to charge what you want, quit driving Uber/Lyft and start your own service (some people have done this).



Loralie said:


> There are lawsuits already about this!!! Exactly!!! This moderator person thinks its fine to scam people. Lets actually see what the courts say. Person sounds like troll to me. Its wrong what they are doing, uneithical and also it is a scam. I want to see what the courts rule on the case i dont need some troll in here to try to explain how &%[email protected]!*ed up capitalism is.


I don't think it's fine to scam anyone. My point is no one is being scammed, everyone agreed to it. If you ask me if I have change for a buck because you really want a soda but the machine doesn't take dollars. I say I only have .80, and the soda only costs .75 so you say sure, that will work. Did I scam you? I gave you exactly what we agreed I would (the .80). Now if I give you .50 and then run.. yeah, then I scammed you.

It very well may be unethical, or unfair (in fact I would certainly say it's unfair), but it's not a scam and drivers (and pax) are agreeing to it. That's all I'm saying. The courts have already ruled on some of the suits, and as you say, we can wait on the other, but law is definitely my specialty, so I have a little knowledge that others may not.

After all, is it fair that you gave me a dollar and I only gave you .80? No, that's not "fair" but it is what we agreed to, thus, not a scam.


----------



## ImSkittles (Jan 6, 2018)

Pawtism said:


> Ok, let's compare service to service if it's easier for people to process. You go to the mechanic to get your "whatever" replaced (struts, some kinda rod, you know.. "whatever", I'm not a car guy hehe). They look in their labor book and it says it will take 2 hours, so they charge you the for the part (let's say 150), 2 hours labor (at 50 bucks an hour) and "shop supplies" at like 20 bucks.
> 
> First, do you really think that they paid 150 for that part? Not likely, they paid less than 100 I'm sure. Second, do you think the mechanic doing the labor is getting 50 bucks an hour? Again, not likely, more like 20 (if he's lucky). Third, the 20 bucks in shop supplies is one of those things where they set a price and one job might use a bit more than that, and others less, but I can assure you that over all they come out ahead on that too. Lastly, the job only winds up actually taking an hour and 10 minutes. Those labor guides are like Uber's pricing, set to the longest that it should likely take someone to do, allowing for an unexpected issue to be solved. So do you think they refund or charge less for that extra 50 minutes? Of course not. However, you can be sure that after 1 hour and 10 minutes that mechanic was told to start a different job, so he got screwed out of that 50 minutes (even at 20 an hour).
> 
> ...


I don't see the mechanic connection being similar, only because my ex was a mechanic and it did not work anything like what Uber is doing.

However, I do see it kind of like what surrogate mothers went through in the beginning days. There were no laws, there were no rules, it was just some people who got together and decided what the cost would be. Everything eventually spun out of control and there are states that make surrogate parenting illegal because of the hassles. I would like to believe that the laws will catch up and benefit the Uber/lyft drivers and the passengers.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

ImSkittles said:


> I don't see the mechanic connection being similar, only because my ex was a mechanic and it did not work anything like what Uber is doing.
> 
> However, I do see it kind of like what surrogate mothers went through in the beginning days. There were no laws, there were no rules, it was just some people who got together and decided what the cost would be. Everything eventually spun out of control and there are states that make surrogate parenting illegal because of the hassles. I would like to believe that the laws will catch up and benefit the Uber/lyft drivers and the passengers.


Well, they did eventually regulate taxi rates, towing rates, etc (both to protect the pax and the drivers). It's quite possible that one day, there will be a regulated minimum (and maximum) rate. We're at least a few years off from that I fear though. It's very possible it will eventually happen.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Loralie said:


> There are lawsuits already about this!!! Exactly!!! This moderator person thinks its fine to scam people. Lets actually see what the courts say. Person sounds like troll to me. Its wrong what they are doing, uneithical and also it is a scam. I want to see what the courts rule on the case i dont need some troll in here to try to explain how &%[email protected]!*ed up capitalism is.


There is a difference between "scam" and "fraud". The former is legal. It falls under "Let the Buyer Beware".

The paxes will Express indignation when you explain how upfront pricing is probably higher than they would pay if they were actually charged miles and minutes, but they love the convenience of knowing exactly how much the ride is going to cost them up front, before they actually order the ride. It's a no-win situation trying to explain it to them and get any actual, practical support from them that will benefit us in any way. Mostly, they think we're just fishing for tips, or higher tips.

What goes across their minds is, "Gee, that's terrible, but my ride is still faster/cheaper/both than a taxi would be so not my problem."

They don't understand why, if things are so terrible, the complaining driver is still driving. Unless, of course, there's a reason that the driver can't find a better job. In which case, they figure it just sucks to be you.

Aside from any of that, just as we are bound by the contract that we signed with Uber, so is the pax. They get that upfront price before they order the ride. They have a choice at that point to accept it or not.

And, let's face it, you're really not feeling all that much Sympathy for the Pax. You're just ticked that Uber has raised their rate and found a way to not pass it on to you. And you're probably ticked at yourself for taking it.


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

how much shady paperwork do they have to produce before the sign your rights a way here part starts to turn into duress.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

unadhesived said:


> how much shady paperwork do they have to produce before the sign your rights a way here part starts to turn into duress.


Again, what rights? The only thing that might be considered a right that you give up (and don't technically give up, but more delay) is the "right" to sue (you agree to go through an arbitration first, and frankly, there are so many loopholes to that for legitimate cases that it's not even that troublesome). To which rights do you refer?

They changed the contract, you agreed to the new contract. If you don't like the new contract, stop driving and then you won't be troubled by it (that's effectively what I did).


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

no I will be in debt for a long time as a result of their scam. and lost years of my life and financial ruin as a direct result of their trickery.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> When the pay is low enough (or the cost of the orange suits goes high enough), I leave your jail (only I could decide when it was low enough that it simply wasn't worth it for me). It's really that simple. As for suing, anyone can sue anyone for anything (although there is an arbitration agreement you made as well, so you may have to go through that process first). How far it gets depends on the strength of the case. Tort law is very specific on what they would consider damages (financial injury). So it would depend on what your damages are. If you're argument is "they lowered the rates", the first point the other side is going to make is "if you didn't like the rates, why did you accept the new contract?" Hint: there is almost no reason that someone can come up with that would explain that away, short of "they (literally) had a gun to my head" (such as "make him an offer he can't refuse" style).
> 
> What rights do you think the contract is making you give up? Actually think this through before you answer. Many people think they have rights they don't have. Contrary to popular belief, you actually don't have a "right" to better pay. As for the monopoly argument, Uber is not a monopoly (although if I ran Amazon I might start to worry hehe), there is Lyft virtually anywhere Uber is, and in many markets there are several others. Frankly, that is probably one of the reasons Uber and Lyft, while obviously competitors, haven't actually tried to completely eliminate the other one (they need each other as competitors, otherwise someone might make an anti-trust claim). As as side note, that's also why Microsoft saved Apple when they were at deaths door in the 90s. Many people don't know that Microsoft swooped in and bought, I believe it was 40%, of Apple when they were about to have to shut their doors, so they could stay open. Same reason, to avoid anti-trust (so they wouldn't be declared a monopoly).
> 
> ...


Americans HAVE stopped driving for uber and lyft.

The problem is the our perpetually high rates of Third World immigration. Recent immigrants continue to sign up for both of these scummy companies in large numbers. As long as that continues, the bad pay and disrespect will continue.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Americans HAVE stopped driving for uber and lyft.
> 
> The problem is the our perpetually high rates of Third World immigration. Recent immigrants continue to sign up for both of these scummy companies in large numbers. As long as that continues, the bad pay and disrespect will continue.


Not all Americans have stopped yet, but I see your point. I'm not sure what else to say about it though.. If I say "build the wall", it will take this whole thread off topic (so I'm not saying that.. I'm thinking it, but I'm not saying it)..


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> They are ripping off the pax also, yes (as is the mechanic shop in charging the 2 hours labor when it only took 1 hour and 10 minute). I used to be the office manager at a mechanic and tire shop. The mechanics do, in fact, provide their own tools. The shop provides some as well, such as the lifts, the computer alignment type stuff (wheels, steering, etc), the emissions machine, etc. But the hand tools are the mechanics (and they are very protective of them too). Again, you are independent contractors, which make the situation actually worse for you than an employee.
> 
> Your contract is with Uber/Lyft, not the pax. I avoided the pax side of it to avoid confusion but you are correct, the pax are getting screwed too. Their contract is also with Uber/Lyft. They are paying for long haul rates, even though they're not being long hauled. But they agreed to it also, just as you did to your rates. Uber will keep raising their fees to the pax until the pax stop riding, just as they'll keep lowing our rates until we stop driving. If you want to charge what you want, quit driving Uber/Lyft and start your own service (some people have done this).
> 
> ...


C'mon man, you know better than that. We "agreed" because if we didn't, we wouldn't be able to log on.



Pawtism said:


> Not all Americans have stopped yet, but I see your point. I'm not sure what else to say about it though.. If I say "build the wall", it will take this whole thread off topic (so I'm not saying that.. I'm thinking it, but I'm not saying it)..


Most Americans have abandoned rideshare. The exodus started with the first paycut and increased with each one.

The wall's got nothing to do with this. It's LEGAL immigrants who are signing up, NOT illegal immigrants.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> C'mon man, you know better than that. We "agreed" because if we didn't, we wouldn't be able to log on.


Exactly, No drivers, no Uber. They'd have no choice but to make a better contract (one enough people would agree with).



Nats121 said:


> The wall's got nothing to do with this. It's LEGAL immigrants who are signing up, NOT illegal immigrants.


Most of the legal immigrants have figured out that they can make more at McDonalds too. There are a lot of illegals who have stolen people's identity driving out there.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7904409-181/mexican-uber-driver-in-us


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> Exactly, No drivers, no Uber. They'd have no choice but to make a better contract (one enough people would agree with).


I'll say it again, the ONLY reason uber's able to stick a terrible "agreement" in front of our noses is the leverage immigration provides them.

A sharp reduction in Third World immigration will eliminate that leverage. Both companies will no choice but to pay the drivers much higher wages or go out of business.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

unadhesived said:


> no I will be in debt for a long time as a result of their scam. and lost years of my life and financial ruin as a direct result of their trickery.


No. You risked all that when you chose to be in business for yourself.

You, and all of us, had the option to incorporate ourselves before driving for Uber, and thus protect ourselves. I actually had someone suggest that to me, and I didn't listen. Luckily I didn't lose much, but that's because I didn't count on Uber when I made my financial choices.

Many first-time business owners fail. Call your losses "tuition" and learn from them.

Travis' rantings to that driver were obnoxious, but not entirely untrue. We're all adults here. We are ultimately responsible for our own decisions. It is not a general contractor's job to teach the subcontractor-electrician how to wire the house. It was never Uber's responsibility to teach us how to run our businesses, nor to stand over us and make sure we each actually read the contract before we signed, saying we had read and fully understood all the terms.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> C'mon man, you know better than that. We "agreed" because if we didn't, we wouldn't be able to log on.
> 
> Most Americans have abandoned rideshare. The exodus started with the first paycut and increased with each one.
> 
> The wall's got nothing to do with this. It's LEGAL immigrants who are signing up, NOT illegal immigrants.


Leveraged Coercion

Most probably mapped out to an algorithm determining drivers most needy time period during the month .

Then Uber " presents" its unnanounced Adulterated " contract" revision.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> Exactly, No drivers, no Uber. They'd have no choice but to make a better contract (one enough people would agree with).
> 
> Most of the legal immigrants have figured out that they can make more at McDonalds too. There are a lot of illegals who have stolen people's identity driving out there.
> 
> http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7904409-181/mexican-uber-driver-in-us





Pawtism said:


> Exactly, No drivers, no Uber. They'd have no choice but to make a better contract (one enough people would agree with).
> 
> Most of the legal immigrants have figured out that they can make more at McDonalds too. There are a lot of illegals who have stolen people's identity driving out there.
> 
> http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7904409-181/mexican-uber-driver-in-us


The exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of new drivers are here LEGALLY

McDonald's? How many Afrcians, Middle Easterners , and South Asians do you see working at McDonald's?


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

The majority of initial sign ups are, sure. But why would you assume that Americans have quit driving but only legal immigrants have (and not illegals)? You know what the turn over rate is like. Legal immigrants are going to quit driving too as it becomes below minimum wage to do so.

Why would the legal immigrants have to stay in Uber? Especially since they are legal and can make more money doing whatever they want? The illegals, can't risk getting a W-2 or going through the e-verify stuff (Odds are whoever they have stolen identity from probably has a job), so they are stuck doing whatever rates uber sees fit to give them.


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

You have all these different tactics that these companies have used to undermine the freedoms that made them able to do business in this country so successfully.


And that includes saturating the labor market with more desperate people that will take anything over their previous situation. I hope those people start to inform themselves rather than remain in their overly optimistic state of mind.

Just like any resource the more human resources that you have the less value the commodity has on the market. and that kind of leverage pushes us into debt serfdom slavery and leaves us without real choices.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> There is a difference between "scam" and "fraud". The former is legal. It falls under "Let the Buyer Beware".
> 
> The paxes will Express indignation when you explain how upfront pricing is probably higher than they would pay if they were actually charged miles and minutes, but they love the convenience of knowing exactly how much the ride is going to cost them up front, before they actually order the ride. It's a no-win situation trying to explain it to them and get any actual, practical support from them that will benefit us in any way. Mostly, they think we're just fishing for tips, or higher tips.
> 
> ...


It is fraud in my book. No i am not tickled lol there is a lawsuit going on about this and I have a feeling uber will not win in this case. There is an article about the how the uber passenger app has been designed to find the longest routes since they started the upfront pricing scheme. First of all no one agreed for uber and lyft to take more than what the ride is really worth, according to actual time and miles and surge. It is known they have been doing this intentionally in the passenger app which is a scam to me. Just because they have found ways to do this without anyone knowing does not make it legal. If they are not telling this to passengers and making it known they are being charged a higher rate for no apparent reason, then it is a scam. No one should be charged more or less than the actual miles or time its that simple. They should not be charged more period. Do the actual caluction and adjust it accordingly.


----------



## Uber315 (Apr 11, 2016)

IMO they are stealing from both Pax and drivers . The fact they are charging much higher rates and keeping it. Especially in the wee hours of the morning when the club scene should be surging on a Sat at 4:00 am . They are stealing the Surge . Also suppressing our tips since riders think we get to keep a lot of the fare. They lowered the rates to get more rides and dropped it for us. Now they raised the rates Back up and kept us at the same rates . Now tell me did any of you think that this has caused tips to diminish ?


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Loralie said:


> It is fraud in my book. No i am not tickled lol there is a lawsuit going on about this and I have a feeling uber will not win in this case. There is an article about the how the uber passenger app has been designed to find the longest routes since they started the upfront pricing scheme. First of all no one agreed for uber and lyft to take more than what the ride is really worth, according to actual time and miles and surge. It is known they have been doing this intentionally in the passenger app which is a scam to me. Just because they have found ways to do this without anyone knowing does not make it legal. If they are not telling this to passengers and making it known they are being charged a higher rate for no apparent reason, then it is a scam. No one should be charged more or less than the actual miles or time its that simple. They should not be charged more period. Do the actual caluction and adjust it accordingly.


You have a point, unfortunately it is no longer valid. The lawsuit refers to the time before we signed the agreement in May. Once we signed, we had no standing for this kind of a lawsuit anymore. You're really only going to get a couple of months worth, if anything at all, and Uber can always let you go afterwards because the contract allows them to do so without any reason whatsoever, so long as it gives you 7 days notice that they are going to.

You're gambling in the casino. You may make a few bucks, but the house always wins.


----------



## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

I'm just going to reply to all (as it would be silly to quote everyone hehe). Yes, Uber is stealing from the pax and the driver. Yes, we both agreed to it. The drivers certainly don't like it (and the pax seem to perfer to remain blissfully ignorant or simply don't care). However, we all agreed to it. It's like my change for a dollar thing. You can't get mad at me later because I only gave you .80, when I told you straight out that's what I had and you agreed to take that. You agree to something, then throw a hissy fit that it's not fair. That's what a lot of the drivers that come on here wind up sounding like. If it's not fair, don't agree to it! It's really that simple. Someone else earlier said something to the effect of "if we don't agree then we can't go online". Yup.. I mean what else do you want me to say? If you don't agree to take the .80 cents I have, you can't get your soda... so, how important is that soda to you? How important is being able to drive strangers around to you? Is it worth the rates they are offering you? Only you can decide that, I can't tell you that it is or isn't. I can tell you that it stopped being worth it for me (and will admit that other factors played into that decision too, such as I'm about to get very busy and probably won't have much time to drive anyway, also I don't really need the money right now).

Only you can decide if the rates they are offering are worth it to you. If they are, fine keep driving, if they aren't then stop. Agreeing to something and then throwing a hissy fit about it reflects badly on the driver's character, far more than it does on Uber. Someone else pointed out that it could get regulated one day (those weren't their words, but that was kinda the gist of it). They are right, one day that could happen, it happened for taxis, but look at what it took for it to happen. There were wide spread strikes, people couldn't get a cab, and it created havok. That's what it took to get lawmakers involved. Likewise, that's what it would take in this case too.

I'm not supporting Uber, I will state, unequivocally, that they are trying to squeeze as much as they can out of the pax, while giving as little as they can to the driver. They're a company in a capitalist economy, this is expected behavior, no one should be surprised by this. I'm simply stating facts that drivers don't want to hear (because they are lost in this little utopia world where everything is fair). Let me state it very clearly. *Uber will keep lowering drivers rates, while raising pax prices until, either, drivers stop driving or pax stop riding, at which point they will raise/lower them just enough to get them to start driving/riding again.* Full stop, end of story, period. It really is that simple. Want rates to stop falling? STOP DRIVING. There really isn't anything else to say.


----------



## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


It could be u were going over the speed limit and made an easy breezy green lights in ur favor, and have arrived at destination earlier by 4minutes or so.


----------



## unadhesived (Jul 7, 2017)

Uber can reserve the right to do whatever the hell they want to do to me and then force me to sign it holding my shity food and shity apartment hostage. And you can continue to point out your repeat point that somehow this contract was legally or consensually accept it if it were consensually accepted you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people complaining about it before they even signed it.

In front of a jury I can make point after point after point after point about why this is wrong illegal and screwed up beyond the wildest criminal imagination.

And you guys can keep repeating the same old tired Caveat Emptor buyer beware that the slimy used car dealer keeps repeating before he is shut down for doctoring the car that he sold you.

And he will keep repeating his word caveat emptor which is actually one good point of reference but his victims can come up with hundreds of other point of reference of why he f***** them over. Scumbag loses and gets a fair trial by the public in a real Court that complies with the Constitution.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

unadhesived said:


> Uber can reserve the right to do whatever the hell they want to do to me and then force me to sign it holding my shity food and shity apartment hostage. And you can continue to point out your repeat point that somehow this contract was legally or consensually accept it if it were consensually accepted you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people complaining about it before they even signed it.
> 
> In front of a jury I can make point after point after point after point about why this is wrong illegal and screwed up beyond the wildest criminal imagination.
> 
> ...


So do it. And let us know how you make out.


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> I'm just going to reply to all (as it would be silly to quote everyone hehe). Yes, Uber is stealing from the pax and the driver. Yes, we both agreed to it. The drivers certainly don't like it (and the pax seem to perfer to remain blissfully ignorant or simply don't care). However, we all agreed to it. It's like my change for a dollar thing. You can't get mad at me later because I only gave you .80, when I told you straight out that's what I had and you agreed to take that. You agree to something, then throw a hissy fit that it's not fair. That's what a lot of the drivers that come on here wind up sounding like. If it's not fair, don't agree to it! It's really that simple. Someone else earlier said something to the effect of "if we don't agree then we can't go online". Yup.. I mean what else do you want me to say? If you don't agree to take the .80 cents I have, you can't get your soda... so, how important is that soda to you? How important is being able to drive strangers around to you? Is it worth the rates they are offering you? Only you can decide that, I can't tell you that it is or isn't. I can tell you that it stopped being worth it for me (and will admit that other factors played into that decision too, such as I'm about to get very busy and probably won't have much time to drive anyway, also I don't really need the money right now).
> 
> Only you can decide if the rates they are offering are worth it to you. If they are, fine keep driving, if they aren't then stop. Agreeing to something and then throwing a hissy fit about it reflects badly on the driver's character, far more than it does on Uber. Someone else pointed out that it could get regulated one day (those weren't their words, but that was kinda the gist of it). They are right, one day that could happen, it happened for taxis, but look at what it took for it to happen. There were wide spread strikes, people couldn't get a cab, and it created havok. That's what it took to get lawmakers involved. Likewise, that's what it would take in this case too.
> 
> I'm not supporting Uber, I will state, unequivocally, that they are trying to squeeze as much as they can out of the pax, while giving as little as they can to the driver. They're a company in a capitalist economy, this is expected behavior, no one should be surprised by this. I'm simply stating facts that drivers don't want to hear (because they are lost in this little utopia world where everything is fair). Let me state it very clearly. *Uber will keep lowering drivers rates, while raising pax prices until, either, drivers stop driving or pax stop riding, at which point they will raise/lower them just enough to get them to start driving/riding again.* Full stop, end of story, period. It really is that simple. Want rates to stop falling? STOP DRIVING. There really isn't anything else to say.


Also this isnt just about the drivers either, they are overcharging passengers. You cant tell the passengers to all stop using uber, Ive tried to tell them that they are being overcharged but it seems not alot of people care. For example i took someone to the airport on surge ride. The person paid $10.00 over for no reason at all. The app dosent adjust the price to the actual time and miles. The app finds the longest routes and then uses that for the fare estimate. These people are all paying for an "estimate" not the actual time and mile rate that should be adjusted. To me thats fraud if the app is designed to overcharge. Look say what you will i want to see what the courts actually say.


----------



## Mjlim (Feb 18, 2017)

Doc Bartolo said:


> Casn someone help me understand this?
> I took a standard Uber X ride for which the rider was billed $19.95 according to Uber.
> Uber charged the rider a booking fee of $2.30 and took $5.49 in service fees leaving me with a payout of $12.16.
> If you take the total billed to the rider, $19.95, and subtract the booking fee, $2.30, that leaves 17.65.
> ...


----------



## Uber315 (Apr 11, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> So do it. And let us know how you make out.


Someone is preparing to do it .


----------



## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Mjlim said:


> View attachment 217889


Thieves...


----------



## Jamie Moore (Jul 14, 2021)

I’m a driver out of Okc. I took two trips a few days apart. The same trip. One paid me 11.00 the other paid 5.00. The difference was my tip. The 11.00 one payed a 20.00 tip, Uber kept over half. The 2nd one paid a 60.00 tip and I got paid 5.00!!!!?


----------



## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

Jamie Moore said:


> I’m a driver out of Okc. I took two trips a few days apart. The same trip. One paid me 11.00 the other paid 5.00. The difference was my tip. The 11.00 one payed a 20.00 tip, Uber kept over half. The 2nd one paid a 60.00 tip and I got paid 5.00!!!!?


"Supposedly" drivers get 100% of tips. Post the screen caps. 
Also your Uber login and password for verification purposes [optional].


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Jamie Moore said:


> I’m a driver out of Okc. I took two trips a few days apart. The same trip. One paid me 11.00 the other paid 5.00. The difference was my tip. The 11.00 one payed a 20.00 tip, Uber kept over half. The 2nd one paid a 60.00 tip and I got paid 5.00!!!!?


Thanks for reviving a dead thread. I find your assertions hard to believe. How do you know a passenger tipped you in the app? Let's see a screen shot.


----------



## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

uber is stealing? lol...really? I'll alert the media

They have turned deception and stealing into an art form.

I would also like to point out that this company has gotten over on such entity's as the state of california,every continent on the planet ,except maybe for antarctica and you want to sue them? bhahahahaha.....even if you win (which you most likely wont) they'll just move the goal posts again......in the end you get nothing...so make the best of it or start walking. I am only saying this from my own experience of dealing with their disingenuous actions of the past. trust me you will live longer and not get stressed out about shit you can't control.


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Jamie Moore said:


> I’m a driver out of Okc. I took two trips a few days apart. The same trip. One paid me 11.00 the other paid 5.00. The difference was my tip. The 11.00 one payed a 20.00 tip, Uber kept over half. The 2nd one paid a 60.00 tip and I got paid 5.00!!!!?














$20.00 tip and a $60.00 tip

They wernt stolen,


They never happened.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> View attachment 604596
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most likely the poster used the word "tip" when he meant to say "fare".


----------

