# remote cars will fail because.



## Hunter420 (May 1, 2016)

The other drivers, and too much traffic! And thats it in a nutshell. Anything else to add?


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Hunter420 said:


> The other drivers, and too much traffic! And thats it in a nutshell. Anything else to add?


What is a "remote car"? Are you referring to a self-driving or autonomous car?


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Navigation

One poster from Houston said the map app, believe it was Waze, tried to steer them down a flooded street. I find that the map apps are not always current on detours, closed streets, etc. 

Can't wait to read about one of these autonomous cars ignoring a closed road sign and ending up in a river.


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## Mikek999 (May 17, 2017)

Automated cars will not know when pax thru up in car or stain the seats or made a mess. Automated cars will be known as the $#itbox of Uber cars. Riders will expect a lower rate for automated cars vs real drivers


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

I find it funny that the detractors of the sdc's magic machine robot device say they won't be perfect and to prove it they use an example of a humanoid who can't control a bodily function.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

mikes424 said:


> Navigation
> 
> One poster from Houston said the map app, believe it was Waze, tried to steer them down a flooded street. I find that the map apps are not always current on detours, closed streets, etc.
> 
> Can't wait to read about one of these autonomous cars ignoring a closed road sign and ending up in a river.


Won't happen. SDC's don't use gps maps. They use onboard 3D maps of the city to within 4 inches.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> Navigation
> 
> One poster from Houston said the map app, believe it was Waze, tried to steer them down a flooded street. I find that the map apps are not always current on detours, closed streets, etc.
> 
> Can't wait to read about one of these autonomous cars ignoring a closed road sign and ending up in a river.


They don't use GPS for navigation.

They are more than capable of detecting road closed signs and barriers.

Once one car detects a closed road, the entire fleet can know and reroute accordingly.


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## JoeK333 (Nov 29, 2016)

Why would uber put up the cash to purchase the cars and then maintain the cars (Tires, brakes, oil changes, gas, etc) when they fools like us who will gladly sacrifice our own cars while keep our cars services as mentioned before for a tenth of the cost?


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

JoeK333 said:


> Why would uber put up the cash to purchase the cars and then maintain the cars (Tires, brakes, oil changes, gas, etc) when they fools like us who will gladly sacrifice our own cars while keep our cars services as mentioned before for a tenth of the cost?


1) They already pay for our cars in what they pay us PLUS the profit we take.

2) They probably won't buy their own fleets. They will probably be provided fleets by their several auto manufacturing partners.

3) Its far cheaper to buy and maintain fleets of electric vehicles than individual ICE vehicles. Economies of scale.



Mikek999 said:


> Automated cars will not know when pax thru up in car or stain the seats or made a mess. Automated cars will be known as the $#itbox of Uber cars. Riders will expect a lower rate for automated cars vs real drivers


The rates will definitely be lower. They are talking about $0.35 a mile.

The cars could easily detect messes instantly and this would become a profit center, not a roadblock.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> 1) They already pay for our cars in what they pay us PLUS the profit we take.
> 
> 2) They probably won't buy their own fleets. They will probably be provided fleets by their several auto manufacturing partners.
> 
> ...


This is the part people are failing to grasp. At .35 cents a mile it's far cheaper to subscribe to a self driving taxi service than own you own car. Even if you commute 50 miles a day, 25 each way, x's 20 days that's $350 dollars a month. That alone is almost what you're paying for paying for gas and insurance alone. Also with competition I see the .35 coming down rather quickly


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

OMG They're tag teaming now.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Gung-Ho said:


> OMG They're tag teaming now.


We'll get to you. Keep your panties on.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

All the Autonomous cars will be deactivated for professionalism and they will create their own forum and txt and drive at the same time breaking the law with passengers in the vehicle.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Won't happen. SDC's don't use gps maps. They use onboard 3D maps of the city to within 4 inches.


 These are the 3 idiots that are trying to sell subscription to a mapping system - 
*This startup is using Uber and Lyft drivers to bring self-driving cars to market faster - **Former Tesla engineers launch a high-definition mapping company -* https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/19/16000272/lvl5-self-driving-car-tesla-map-lidar

And my comment to these charlatans -

These 3 musketeers with big smiles on their (allow me please) too young faces, start saying something very important for their industry - *"The thing that everyone is kind of ignoring silently is that self-driving cars won't ship unless we have really good HD maps that update every single day,"* In other words, they won't ship at all. Based on this story, let's understand why.

Andrew Kouri, who worked on Tesla's Autopilot team "says self-driving cars don't need LIDAR, light detection, and ranging radar used to see the world around it." So here we have the confirmation (from an individual who had the chance to work on Tesla's guiding system) about what everbody else other than Tesla or this company, is doing. _In other words, what Google was doing the last decade was a foolish waste of money_.

What these youngsters are intentionally ignoring is what every single Uber or Lyft driver knows - the navigation systems are guiding drivers on certain patterns (like pipelines) around the cities, using only a small number of roads (mainly highways) in order to get the user to the destination based on whatever criteria the user wants to follow (avoiding highways, fastest route, no tolls or the shortest route). So using those drivers will only map about 25% of an area, while all the navigation systems will push drivers towards routes calculated by their algorithms. Every driver knows how, no matter the time of the day, based on the existing traffic, you can only be on 2, maybe 3 different routes towards the same destination. Now, the musketeers in the picture, want *"high-definition 3D maps that are constantly refreshing."*, but that will only be possible (and I am only considering the very very best case scenario here, where drivers are passing thru every 30 seconds to a minute) for that 25% of the designated area/city. No more.

Now *"Huge amounts of data are captured; video is taken every meter along a vehicle's route. The compressed data is then sent to the cloud and then sent to lvl5's central hub. From there, lvl5 uses its computer vision algorithm to translate all of this footage into high-definition 3D maps.".* Every child knows how HUGE amounts of data need HUGE amounts of computational power. The more data you collect, the more computational power you will need. It is an exponential relationship between weight (data) and power to move (process) it. "*"That's something that even Tesla doesn't do right now," Kouri said."* because it is insane and entirely counterproductive. If Tesla, with their capacities, doesn't do such thing, they should have a very, very good reason not to.... I think.

_The startup is currently piloting its system with an unnamed major automaker. The aim is to work with multiple automakers, each one paying an initial fee to install the system into the vehicles. The HD maps change multiple times in a day, which requires constant maintenance. Lvl5 will charge a monthly subscription fee per vehicle to maintain the maps._

This paragraph explains what these willing to be visionaries, want to achieve. *They want to trick car manufacturers into implementing their super crazy concept into production cars and have the consumers pay a monthly fee for this shit.*

They also mentioned Joshua Brown's name, as proof for Tesla Systems failure, which we need to thank them for.

My question for these guys and all the coocoo half intoxicated nerds that think Picard and Darth Vader are real people, is - *Who wants to be the next victim here, to raise there hand? Anybody?

*
You might wanna also read - 
*We have unrealistic expectations of a tech-driven future utopia*
*It's time to talk about the potential value of limits on technology*
https://www.recode.net/2017/7/25/16...s-limits-ethics-vr-ai-autonomous-google-glass


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> They don't use GPS for navigation.
> 
> They are more than capable of detecting road closed signs and barriers.
> 
> Once one car detects a closed road, the entire fleet can know and reroute accordingly.


And once one car decides it's best to go wide on the shoulder to avoid debris in the road and crashes down the side of a cliff the rest of the fleet will do the same.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> 1) They already pay for our cars in what they pay us PLUS the profit we take.


I get paid 88 cents per mile and 80 cents on pool rides. My paid miles run about 50% of total miles driven, so I'm taking in 44 cents average for each mile.

The IRS deduction, based on a real world (AAA) survey of vehicle operation costs, for a midsize car ( I drive a camry ) is 54 cents per mile ( or something in that range ).

I don't see how they are "paying me" for my car.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> And once one car decides it's best to go wide on the shoulder to avoid debris in the road and crashes down the side of a cliff the rest of the fleet will do the same.


UberLemming?


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> UberLemming?


Ramz, you see this?

https://uberpeople.net/threads/gm-and-cruise-announce-first-mass-production-self-driving-car.201472/


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Ramz, you see this?
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/gm-and-cruise-announce-first-mass-production-self-driving-car.201472/


lol so they built a computer with wheels with no OS. how amazing...


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> I get paid 88 cents per mile and 80 cents on pool rides. My paid miles run about 50% of total miles driven, so I'm taking in 44 cents average for each mile.
> 
> The IRS deduction, based on a real world (AAA) survey of vehicle operation costs, for a midsize car ( I drive a camry ) is 54 cents per mile ( or something in that range ).
> 
> I don't see how they are "paying me" for my car.


Not this again.

The deduction is based on a fully financed brand new car driven off the lot following recommended maintenance. If you do that, you're going to lose money. If you do maths, you won't do that.

Now consider, at first, these will likely be glorified electrical golf carts provided at manufacturing costs and not financed. Low up front cost, low operational costs, low maintenance costs.

Then add in that this will be fleet management, not individual retail costs. Economies of scale.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

heynow321 said:


> lol so they built a computer with wheels with no OS. how amazing...


You have no idea the significance of this, do you?


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> You have no idea the significance of this, do you? .


yeah, they still can't do the hardest part. creating software that doesn't **** up constantly. we're all amazed by this tomato! a car manufacturer built a car! stop the presses!


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Ramz, you see this?
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/gm-and-cruise-announce-first-mass-production-self-driving-car.201472/


Wait, so it's not going to take a decade for manufacturers to tool up to make the new model like some here have been saying?

Ya don't say.

Yes, I saw it.

A single company producing more self-driving cars per year than Uber drivers in the US? That's impressive.

Everything's still accelerating. I've never seen anything like this.



heynow321 said:


> yeah, they still can't do the hardest part. creating software that doesn't &%[email protected]!* up constantly. we're all amazed by this tomato! a car manufacturer built a car! stop the presses!


You're saying "can't" when a more accurate statement is "probably haven't." We don't know for sure one way or the other but they all say they can, will, and actually are.

Oh, and you should change "constantly" to "maybe occasionally." More accurate also. Waymo went seven months without a necessary driver takeover in 2015. Since then they have more than tripled their fleet and miles driven a day and have run many many billions of simulator miles. We have no idea how close they are now.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

heynow321 said:


> yeah, they still can't do the hardest part. creating software that doesn't &%[email protected]!* up constantly. we're all amazed by this tomato! a car manufacturer built a car! stop the presses!





RamzFanz said:


> Wait, so it's not going to take a decade for manufacturers to tool up to make the new model like some here have been saying?
> 
> Ya don't say.
> 
> ...


Uber has to be wetting themselves. Cruise and GM sound like they're ready to launch. Uber's still shooting themselves in the foot.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> These are the 3 idiots that are trying to sell subscription to a mapping system -
> *This startup is using Uber and Lyft drivers to bring self-driving cars to market faster - **Former Tesla engineers launch a high-definition mapping company -* https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/19/16000272/lvl5-self-driving-car-tesla-map-lidar
> 
> And my comment to these charlatans -
> ...


You would only upload the data that's changed. Like how compression works in satellite TV. Very little data really.



tomatopaste said:


> Uber has to be wetting themselves. Cruise and GM sound like they're ready to launch. Uber's still shooting themselves in the foot.


Yeah, Uber's dead in the water as far as their own project. Out of their element and drained of their top talent. They're going to have to rely on one of their auto partners IMHO.

I'm still betting on Waymo. I get the feeling Cruise is not as far along as they market. Being owned by GM means they definitely have the funds to get it done quicker now though.

The good news for Uber drivers is Uber can't partner with Waymo now which would have been the power couple. Waymo may still lease the platform to Uber's auto partners though so it's not impossible Uber uses Waymo technology in the end.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> You would only upload the data that's changed. Like how compression works in satellite TV. Very little data really.
> 
> Yeah, Uber's dead in the water as far as their own project. Out of their element and drained of their top talent. They're going to have to rely on one of their auto partners IMHO.
> 
> ...


It's all very incestuous. Cruise is owned by GM but Gm owns part of Lyft yet Lyft is working with Drive.ai that competes with Cruise.



RamzFanz said:


> You would only upload the data that's changed. Like how compression works in satellite TV. Very little data really.
> 
> Yeah, Uber's dead in the water as far as their own project. Out of their element and drained of their top talent. They're going to have to rely on one of their auto partners IMHO.
> 
> ...


GM and Cruise threw down the gauntlet today. I see the others like Waymo and Chrysler having to announce a production schedule rather quickly.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

Where are they going to put the toilet paper holder?

They're going to lose 25% of the fleet every weekend night.

If they're worth more than $500 in scrap they'll be stolen at a rate higher than any other car on the road


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

osii said:


> Where are they going to put the toilet paper holder?
> 
> They're going to lose 25% of the fleet every weekend night.
> 
> If they're worth more than $500 in scrap they'll be stolen at a rate higher than any other car on the road


Not gonna happen.

Your car is worth more than $500 in scrap...has it been stolen?


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> You would only upload the data that's changed. Like how compression works in satellite TV. Very little data really.
> 
> Yeah, Uber's dead in the water as far as their own project. Out of their element and drained of their top talent. They're going to have to rely on one of their auto partners IMHO.
> 
> ...


I agree, Google probably has the best product, but it might not matter. Often good enough is good enough. Feels like now we're in the execution stage. It's getting fun.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Not this again.
> 
> The deduction is based on a fully financed brand new car driven off the lot following recommended maintenance. If you do that, you're going to lose money. If you do maths, you won't do that.
> 
> ...


All right, let's do some real world math here . I purchased this car a Toyota Camry used with 33,000 miles last February today it has 90,000 miles --it had a hundred thousand mile warranty which should have last me about 5 years with normal driving, which has been shortened to a year, Uber has taken this from me and not compensating me for this loss. I repeat, I don't see how Uber is "paying" me for my car.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> these will likely be glorified electrical golf carts provided at manufacturing costs and not financed.


The best way for a corporation to make money is through financing. Back in the '70s GE realized that instead of making washers and sell them was much better to loan buyers money to buy those washers.

The entire American economy is a debt bubble. How do you think a CEO in his right mind it will choose the less profitable option? And why risk his well paying job?


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