# Lyft Line Trickery by PAX



## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

I've tried the destination filter but haven't had a bite.

Last night I got a regular ping and waited but the passenger (female name) was no where in site. I sent a text for location, etc. and I see a gentleman on his cell approaching me. Turns out his sister called on his behalf. Seemed legit but in the process of talking and figuring that out and him getting into the car, I see some different things on the app I hadn't seen before. Since I updated the app yesterday I thought changes had taken place.

It all happened so quickly but I saw a box to confirm pick up and the number of people. Um, 1. I simultaneously saw on the upper left-hand corner 'Lyft Line'. What the hey???

During our ride the pax explains why his sister ordered the ride for him and then asked what is the difference between Lyft Line and regular Lyft. His sister told him it's cheaper 

I am so ticked some people try to work the system! I don't even really know if his ride was less $ or not, honestly. Nor do I care. It's the principle. Shame on them!!!


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

How is that trickery? We don't have Line here in Dallas (yet, thankfully). But if the passenger ordered a LyftLine ride, and you gave a LyftLine ride... nobody was tricked that I can tell.


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

andaas said:


> How is that trickery? We don't have Line here in Dallas (yet, thankfully). But if the passenger ordered a LyftLine ride, and you gave a LyftLine ride... nobody was tricked that I can tell.


Then intention by the pax was to get a cheaper ride. Lyft Line vs. regular Lyft. Her conclusion was ordering Line = less $$$.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Isn't that what LyftLine is? Cheaper ride because you may pick up additional passengers along the route? Her conclusion was correct, I still see no trickery.


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## Altima ATL (Jul 13, 2015)

How is it trickery and how is it out of compliance with Lyftline?


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

andaas said:


> Isn't that what LyftLine is? Cheaper ride because you may pick up additional passengers along the route? Her conclusion was correct, I still see no trickery.


Correct. The trickery is I was giving one, ONLY ONE pax a ride. Therefore, my conclusion is she tried to work the system to get a cheaper ride with no TRUE Lyft Line.


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

Doubting myself: Am I missing the concept of the Lyft Line and destination filter?

I thought Lyft Line was a way to share the ride and get a Lyft at a lower rate. Maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't be the first time. School me.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

I think that's how it works. If no "matches" are found, the passenger still gets the Line rate and (supposedly) Lyft makes up the difference.


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## MrPix (Oct 4, 2015)

It looks like you don't understand how Lyft Line works... The passenger has no control of who else might be on the Lyft Line. That is 100% dependent on requests for Lyft Line that are compatible with the general direction you're heading. If there are no other Lyft Line requests that fit your current Line, none will match and your passenger won't have any company. You get paid within a dollar or two the same as if you'd taken a regular Lyft ride based on the shortest/quickest possible route when the ride was accepted regardless of the actual route the Line took. However, for that whole Line, you have the opportunity to match with more passengers that can double your take or more.

Over half of my Lyft Line rides never get a second rider match. The ones that do more than make up for it.


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks for the explanation. I understand the concept but what I didn't pick up (after reading on lyft.com) that even if you aren't matched, you (pax) still get the discounted rate. Good to know!

The reason I questioned the honesty was the pax said his sister said Lyft Line is cheaper. What are the chances of another pick up at the same exact time by another Lyft Line requestor at 9:30 p.m. in Bellflower, a suburb of Los Angeles. Zero, that's how many. I believe there are many honest people but I also believe scoundrels run a very close second. 

I've been burned by the Lyft vs. Lyft Plus a few time already so I am jaded. What can I say?


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

andaas said:


> I think that's how it works. If no "matches" are found, the passenger still gets the Line rate and (supposedly) Lyft makes up the difference.


I couldn't tell the difference in the rate, quite honestly. Not sure on that last part of your comment!


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## MrPix (Oct 4, 2015)

The Lyft Line rate will always be within a dollar or so of the lowest possible ordinary Lyft rate. It's just that the rate is pre-calculated regardless of the indirect route you might take.

The whole point of it, though, is that the whole time you're on that ride you're still visible on the maps and available to match for another ride. It's a gamble where you don't have much downside but there's a fair bit of upside.

The real catch is that the software has limitations that make managing Lyft Line rides far more complex than they need to be. I'd love to get with their UI designers to really help them clean up the horrible mess that is managing Lyft Lines, especially when a pin is misplaced or a middle segment messes up for any of a number of reasons like wrong number of pax, etc.

The other element that might figure into it is that around 12% of my income on average comes from tips. Lyft Line riders are looking for the lowest fare, and they never tip.


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

Great to know on the rate. True - no 'real' downside. Although in this case, I felt like they wanted a bargain.

Sounds like you have experience with Lyft Line. It would behoove Lyft to hire or contract you!

Yep - right on that lowest fare and not tipping. Savvy people out there learning the tricks (IMO).


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Lyft line minimum pay out $4, regular Lyft minimum payout $4. You earn the same amount. It's only cheaper if you pair with a friend upon the request, or as Mrpix is saying, another random pax. You will still get what the total miles cost. I like Lyft line requests, because it's a quick cancel fee if they're jerks and yes, Lyft line users never tip... :O only sometimes. Lyft line users are also prone to pulling shady crap, its true. If they especially ask you to take them there and back or somewhere else, on one ride.


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

I'm learning a lot today! Still scandalous.


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## MrPix (Oct 4, 2015)

Here's the rules: they must enter their destination before booking their trip, they cannot change their destination at all, and they cannot extend or alter their segment of the ride in any way. If they want more, they have to book a new ride.

Yes, it is an easy way to make a quick $5 no show fee, but I rarely do that. If I do not have a next rider to pick up, I always give them an extra minute or two. Also, if I have a rider in the car already, I make a show of being gracious and patient, and maybe a minute past the timer running out I "begrudgingly move on"  I always use this as a positive learning lesson for the current passenger that there is the added risk with Lyft Line that they do need to be picked up very promptly.

In fact, I always give any rider who has a better than 4.7 rating the benefit of the doubt. It has always paid off.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

MrPix said:


> Here's the rules: they must enter their destination before booking their trip, they cannot change their destination at all, and they cannot extend or alter their segment of the ride in any way. If they want more, they have to book a new ride.
> 
> Yes, it is an easy way to make a quick $5 no show fee, but I rarely do that. If I do not have a next rider to pick up, I always give them an extra minute or two. Also, if I have a rider in the car already, I make a show of being gracious and patient, and maybe a minute past the timer running out I "begrudgingly move on"  I always use this as a positive learning lesson for the current passenger that there is the added risk with Lyft Line that they do need to be picked up very promptly.
> 
> In fact, I always give any rider who has a better than 4.7 rating the benefit of the doubt. It has always paid off.


You've at least given me hope that LyftLine will not spell the end of my working with Lyft. At the very least it sounds like Lyft's implementation is mostly fair for the driver. As things were going, my expectation was to cease operations with both Uber and Lyft once Pool & Line were launched here in Dallas/Fort Worth.


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## MrPix (Oct 4, 2015)

Look at it another way. On an ordinary Lyft ride, all the time your car is empty you're not earning money. In an ideal world, your rides would be stacked, and usually overlapped. You'd be very happy to offer a 10% lower rate if you could stack your rides like that. The discount being offered is very marginal to the passenger.

I personally wish they'd offer us an "accept Lyft Line?" switch. That way, those who don't like it can opt out, and the rides can be funneled to those remaining who would benefit. This would also make Lyft Line work better for everyone. A certain critical mass of users is required to make it work, but the critical mass of drivers doesn't need to be so great as all the available drivers.

I'm sure they have very bright people at Lyft head office doing the math on this all the time.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

I agree that driver options would be excellent. There are some times where Line would make sense for me (during my morning/evening commute). Other times I may be less favorable toward them.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

*Low rated pax request LyftLine and comes out at the last minute* Bam canceled on right in front of you LOl


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

melxjr said:


> *Low rated pax request LyftLine and comes out at the last minute* Bam canceled on right in front of you LOl


I love it when people fail to realize these are their customers, not just Lyft's. It may sound cute, but do you think that rider will accept you as their driver next time? Do you think they might get pissed enough to tell their friends to cancel on you?


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

BostonBarry Do you waste peoples time trying to also pay for a cheaper service? I wouldn't expect any driver to put up with last minute pax, You've waited your obligated time. Also hence a low rated pax, Do you take potentially trouble people and hope they introduce you to their troubled friends? It really doesn't seem pragmatic Barry. Sometimes it pays off to say no. Don't be greedy.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

MrPix said:


> Here's the rules: they must enter their destination before booking their trip, they cannot change their destination at all, and they cannot extend or alter their segment of the ride in any way. If they want more, they have to book a new ride.
> 
> Yes, it is an easy way to make a quick $5 no show fee, but I rarely do that. If I do not have a next rider to pick up, I always give them an extra minute or two. Also, if I have a rider in the car already, I make a show of being gracious and patient, and maybe a minute past the timer running out I "begrudgingly move on"  I always use this as a positive learning lesson for the current passenger that there is the added risk with Lyft Line that they do need to be picked up very promptly.
> 
> In fact, I always give any rider who has a better than 4.7 rating the benefit of the doubt. It has always paid off.


Mr Pix, in your opinion, how much are you earning more compared to regular lyft rides? Chicago just got Lyft Line and i'm reluctant to drive for it.


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> I love it when people fail to realize these are their customers, not just Lyft's. It may sound cute, but do you think that rider will accept you as their driver next time? Do you think they might get pissed enough to tell their friends to cancel on you?


How will I sleep at night worrying whether these riders will accept me?


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

Like:


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

melxjr said:


> BostonBarry Do you waste peoples time trying to also pay for a cheaper service? I wouldn't expect any driver to put up with last minute pax, You've waited your obligated time. Also hence a low rated pax, Do you take potentially trouble people and hope they introduce you to their troubled friends? It really doesn't seem pragmatic Barry. Sometimes it pays off to say no. Don't be greedy.


No I don't waste people's time. But I also know the value of customer service. Rider ratings? They are just as useful as driver ratings. You could be refusing a 3 star ride from someone who just started using the service and had the misfortune of being paired with a driver who believes every pax who doesn't tip deserves 1 star. When you say "Bam canceled on right in front of you LOl" you net yourself a whopping $5 on what could be a $15 fare with at least one tip, more if other riders are matched. So excuse me if I view the childish "Bam canceled on right in front of you LOl" as a comment ludicrous enough to deserve calling out.

I accept all requests. I rarely notice the rating and don't care. I've had great tips, conversations, and few negative experiences with low rated riders. I think it hilarious we can all agree the rating system is flawed but then use it as an excuse to behave stupidly.

Now, if there was an app glitch and the ride is inconvenient for me, the pax, or both I will call them and ask them to cancel. If they don't want to I'll assess the ride and whether the person on the other end of the phone sounds worthy of an inconvenience and is likely to show appreciation. If I show up and a pax (low or high rating) seems questionable or starts off rude/aggressive, I can just cancel them. I'm not greedy, I just recognize a bad tool when I see one and use my judgement rather than looking for an excuse to be an ass.



Lord Summerisle said:


> How will I sleep at night worrying whether these riders will accept me?


I'm not saying anyone should lose sleep. But anyone who pulls crap like this permanently loses their right to complain their area is slow or their pax are rude. The behavior I referred to doesn't correct the pricks, it motivates them to be more inconsiderate and should it happen to a good user it turns them off to the service.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> No I don't waste people's time. But I also know the value of customer service. Rider ratings? They are just as useful as driver ratings. You could be refusing a 3 star ride from someone who just stayed using the service and had the misfortune of being paired with a driver who believes every pax who doesn't tip deserves 1 star. When poster "Bam canceled on right in front of you LOl" he/she netted themselves a whopping $5 on what could be a $15 fare with at least one tip, more if other riders are matched. So excuse me if I view the childish "Bam canceled on right in front of you LOl" is a comment at ludicrous enough to deserve calling out.
> 
> I accept all requests. I rarely notice the rating and don't care. I've had great tips, conversations, and few general experiences with low rated riders. I think it hilarious we can all agree the rating system is flawed but then use it as am excuse to behave stupidly. Now, if there was an app glitch and the ride is inconvenient for me, the pax, or both I will call them and ask them to cancel. If they don't want to I'll assess the ride and whether the person on the other end of the phone sounds worthy of an inconvenience and is likely to show appreciation. If I show up and a pax (low or high rating) seems questionable or starts off rude/aggressive, I can just cancel them. I'm not greedy, I just recognize a bad tool when I see one and use my judgement rather than looking for an excuse to be an ass.


Your post is very hypocritical, I preference avoiding the screaming client, if you like conflict, we all have our own values.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

melxjr said:


> Your post is very *hypocritical*, I preference avoiding the screaming client, if you like conflict, we all have our own values.


I don't think you know what that word means. There is no hypocrisy in my post. I also said nothing about taking screaming clients.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

ok


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## MrPix (Oct 4, 2015)

BaitNSwitch said:


> Mr Pix, in your opinion, how much are you earning more compared to regular lyft rides? Chicago just got Lyft Line and i'm reluctant to drive for it.


In this area I think it just balances out. Personally, I don't like Lyft Lines for other reasons I discussed elsewhere...


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## afrojoe824 (Oct 21, 2015)

BostonBarry you probably never had a pax that was rated 4.3 or lower huh? I used to pick up people who had a 4.4 and lower. But then once I picked them up, not one minute into the ride, I'm quickly regretting it...

cin90 - lyft line is just like uber pool. They get a discounted rate - fixed rate - no matter how far off you drive you still get paid and they pay the discounted rate. The downfall to that is they could get matched with another rider. Example, I had a customer request a UberPool. What normally would take 30 mins to take her home , she decided to order uber pool. She got matched and it took 35 minutes to take the 2nd rider because she's "closer"... then another 20 minutes to take the first person home.. so yeah, she had a discounted date. But that's almost an hour ride for a ride she could've completed in 30 mins had she chose UberX


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## cin90 (Nov 12, 2015)

afrojoe824 Kind of anoyin' there. Grrrr. Thanks for the lowdown!


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

afrojoe824 said:


> BostonBarry you probably never had a pax that was rated 4.3 or lower huh? I used to pick up people who had a 4.4 and lower. But then once I picked them up, not one minute into the ride, I'm quickly regretting it...
> 
> cin90 - lyft line is just like uber pool. They get a discounted rate - fixed rate - no matter how far off you drive you still get paid and they pay the discounted rate. The downfall to that is they could get matched with another rider. Example, I had a customer request a UberPool. What normally would take 30 mins to take her home , she decided to order uber pool. She got matched and it took 35 minutes to take the 2nd rider because she's "closer"... then another 20 minutes to take the first person home.. so yeah, she had a discounted date. But that's almost an hour ride for a ride she could've completed in 30 mins had she chose UberX


Actually yes, I've picked up as low as 3☆. The overwhelming majority of low rated riders have been some of my best rides. And the overwhelming majority of the ones I've refused or kicked out are 4.8 or higher. Ratings for drivers AND pax are pointless. The exception being Lyft's 3☆ disconnect. On the few occasions where I've rated someone lower than 3☆ at least I know I'll never get a request from that account again.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> And the overwhelming majority of the ones I've refused or kicked out are 4.8 or higher. Ratings for drivers AND pax are pointless.


So you admit you refuse people and cancel on them also, or kicked out, also the higher rated pax? So are you just trying to be right? LOL, ratings don't matter and are pointless? Dude, you need a cognitive tune-up. This was only about me canceling on a client after the waited time.



BostonBarry said:


> No I don't waste people's time. But I also know the value of customer service. Rider ratings? They are just as useful as driver ratings.


Barry are you really not just making things up as you go along?



BostonBarry said:


> I don't think you know what that word means. There is no hypocrisy in my post. I also said nothing about taking screaming clients.


Yet you're, oh my I know it's easy for you to just "value clients" by saying what you think is right in the MOMENT, but you should really have some actual values, and not lie to yourself most importantly.

Need to corner yourself more? Sorry Barry, but I do cancel on people after 5 minutes. As do you. You cancel on the higher rated pax though, don't know why, the rating system just seems to work differently for you?


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

BTW BostonBarry A higher rated Pax is a 4.9, or 5.0 and that's if you're new (which is a Russian roulette almost) Unless they're genuinely a new pax to Lyft. So you need to really rethink your approach to this job. I've had issues with 4.8's rarely, but never a 4.9 that I could recall.


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## DudeCity (Jun 22, 2015)

Hey guys is there a way to ignore or cxld the second LYFT line request without

Calling the pax ? Please advice on this one.


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## MrPix (Oct 4, 2015)

No, there isn't.


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## driveflydrive (Aug 17, 2015)

afrojoe824 said:


> BostonBarry you probably never had a pax that was rated 4.3 or lower huh? I used to pick up people who had a 4.4 and lower. But then once I picked them up, not one minute into the ride, I'm quickly regretting it...
> 
> cin90 - lyft line is just like uber pool. They get a discounted rate - fixed rate - no matter how far off you drive you still get paid and they pay the discounted rate. The downfall to that is they could get matched with another rider. Example, I had a customer request a UberPool. What normally would take 30 mins to take her home , she decided to order uber pool. She got matched and it took 35 minutes to take the 2nd rider because she's "closer"... then another 20 minutes to take the first person home.. so yeah, she had a discounted date. But that's almost an hour ride for a ride she could've completed in 30 mins had she chose UberX


Yep, I had the same scenario with Lyft Line two weeks ago and it was in bad traffic, the rider who was getting dropped off last was about 20-25 minutes later than it would have been if we'd gone direct. Yes they like the discounted fare but they don't want a second pick up. My rating took a big hit that day as I think both of them dinged me........oh......and neither tipped either.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

melxjr said:


> So you admit you refuse people and cancel on them also, or kicked out, also the higher rated pax? So are you just trying to be right? LOL, ratings don't matter and are pointless? Dude, you need a cognitive tune-up. This was only about me canceling on a client after the waited time.


I never said that I won't cancel a request or that I have not kicked someone out. I said it is childish and bad business to pull away when you see your pax in front of you just because they took 91 seconds instead of 90. In my original reply I said


> Now, if there was an app glitch and the ride is inconvenient for me, the pax, or both I will call them and ask them to cancel. If they don't want to I'll assess the ride and whether the person on the other end of the phone sounds worthy of an inconvenience and is likely to show appreciation. If I show up and a pax (low or high rating) seemsquestionable or starts off rude/aggressive, I can just cancel them.


 There is a big difference between canceling out of spite because a pax is 1 second late and canceling because they are falling-down-drunk, they have open alcohol, are fighting with someone, or the app glitches and gives the ride to me as a 5 minute ETA when I'm traveling on the highway in the opposite direction meaning I'll arrive in 20 minutes.


melxjr said:


> Barry are you really not just making things up as you go along?


No, I have a general sense of customer service, self-respect, and decency. I use those as a guide for how I treat my customers (whether they are TNC riders or any of the other businesses I've worked) and how I arrive at decisions that affect my profitability.


melxjr said:


> Yet you're, oh my I know it's easy for you to just "value clients" by saying what you think is right in the MOMENT, but you should really have some actual values, and not lie to yourself most importantly.


 I do have values. Clearly yours include spite and petty vengeance to the detriment of your own profitability.


melxjr said:


> Need to corner yourself more? Sorry Barry, but I do cancel on people after 5 minutes. As do you. You cancel on the higher rated pax though, don't know why, the rating system just seems to work differently for you?


 Again, I never said I haven't canceled a ride. As quoted above, I cancel for good cause. If a rider hasn't texted or called or answered my texts or call, then yes, 5 minutes (or 90 seconds for Line) and I'm gone. But if they got in touch with me, I'll wait a bit longer. The rating system doesn't work for me AT ALL. I don't use it. I often don't even notice the rating before accepting. As i said, it is an extremely flawed system and thanks to petty drivers such as yourself, it does not reflect the quality of a fare AT ALL. 


melxjr said:


> BTW BostonBarry A higher rated Pax is a 4.9, or 5.0 and that's if you're new (which is a Russian roulette almost) Unless they're genuinely a new pax to Lyft. So you need to really rethink your approach to this job. I've had issues with 4.8's rarely, but never a 4.9 that I could recall.


I'm way past the 2k ride mark and 95% of my rides have been 5 star quality. Less than 1% have been 3 star or lower quality. In both high and low rated pax I've had great rides and terrible ones. Rating is no indicator of quality.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Wow what a rant, did I hit a funny bone? It's okay I understand Barry.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

No rant, just tearing down each response separately. I don't always have time to check the forum, so I need to be efficient.


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