# Why is there so much confusion about the SRF?



## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

I've seen so many people on here whine & b!tch about how Uber takes anywhere $1-1.80 from each driver for every ride they give. The Safe Ride Fee. I've only seen a few people on here talk about how the rider/pax pays the fee because it shows up as a debit and credit on the Driver's account. 

Gave my first Uber ride today and then looked at the pay statement. Am I wrong in understanding that it is a charge and deduction from each ride?

It said I had a $1.80 charge but also a $1.80 deduction...equals zero...am I misunderstanding something here?

Please let me know if I'm wrong in believing that the SRF is NOT coming out of the Driver's pocket?


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## Einstein (Oct 10, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> I've seen so many people on here whine & b!tch about how Uber takes anywhere $1-1.80 from each driver for every ride they give. The Safe Ride Fee. I've only seen a few people on here talk about how the rider/pax pays the fee because it shows up as a debit and credit on the Driver's account.
> 
> Gave my first Uber ride today and then looked at the pay statement. Am I wrong in understanding that it is a charge and deduction from each ride?
> 
> ...


Total Fare Paid by Pax = Distance ($) + Time ($) + SRF

However, the SRF is split 100% to Uber, 0% to driver. And uber has a proclivity to jack up the SRF from time to time, so the driver winds up with an ever smaller percentage of the total fare.
One way to partially mitigate or remedy this is to split the SRF (80/20 or 70/30 or 60/40 ?) between uber and the driver. 
Only partially because if (D + T) is split 20/80, and SRF 70/30, then increases in the SRF will still result in the driver earning a smaller percentage (but not as bad as he would without the split).


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

Please explain that to me like I'm a 5 year old...

I dont know where we went wrong, it keep's playing over & over in my head...


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## Einstein (Oct 10, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> Please explain that to me like I'm a 5 year old...
> 
> I dont know where we went wrong, it keep's playing over & over in my head...


Your observation about the SRF is basically correct.

But it is both a dangerous pricing tool subject to abuse by uber, and included in your annual 1099 tax form as a revenue item for your business.
Uber shows the offset on your pay statement because you don't really earn the SRF.
Be sure to claim it as a deduction on your schedule c, otherwise you will pay taxes on it!

Ignore the stuff about the split fees if it isn't clear.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

put simply, yes it's coming out your pocket.


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## IckyDoody (Sep 18, 2015)

To answer the question in the title: Because uber drivers are bad at math, if they were not bad at math, they would not drive uber.

To hopefully answer the question in your post, an example:

A 5 mile fare that takes 5 minutes in San pedro is calculated as 5*1.10 +5*.18 + 1.65 (this is the srf)

So $5.5o + $.9 +$ 1.65

So $6.40 + $1.65

Now, uber takes all of the srf and %20 (or %25 if you are new) of the $6.40


To be clear, this is based on rates of $1.10 per mile, $.18 per minute, $1.65 srf and no base fare.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Also when you consider the minimum fare in your market of $4.65, Uber takes the SRF from that minimum fare before commission, and then the 20% (or 25%) of the fare for their commission. This leaves you with earnings of $2.40 (or $2.25).

Uber is taking 49% or more of minimum fares in your market.


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

jrboy said:


> put simply, yes it's coming out your pocket.


How so?

Ok for my first ride yesterday...pax total fare was $36 and some change.

Uber took their 25% cut of $9 and some change.

My final payout was $27 and some change.

25% of 36 is 9. 36 minus 9 is 27.

Where is this supposed $1.80 that "came out of my pocket"? Are you saying that before they deposit that $27 payment into my bank account they are going to take another $1.80 from that?


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

think about it. if pax total fare is $36 (pax is not paying $37.80) then where does the srf come from if not from the fare?


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

jrboy said:


> think about it. if pax total fare is $36 (pax is not paying $37.80) then where does the srf come from if not from the fare?


oh ffs...well you tell me. It isnt coming out of my pocket. What are you getting at?

I dont know that was the total amount he was charged to his account. All I can tell (or any driver) is the total cost of the actual ride itself. I cannot check his bank/credit card account for his final charge now can I?

Well then where is this mysterious $1.80 charge that is supposed to be my responsibility? It got lost in cyberspace?

I'm assuming you are just taking the piss out of me at this point. So if another seasoned/experienced driver could chime in with some info that would be great!


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

Einstein said:


> Your observation about the SRF is basically correct.
> 
> But it is both a dangerous pricing tool subject to abuse by uber, and included in your annual 1099 tax form as a revenue item for your business.
> Uber shows the offset on your pay statement because you don't really earn the SRF.
> ...


Thank you for posting. Ok I am well aware we dont earn the SRF but we also dont pay for it either, correct?

Thats more what I'm getting at...not earning it but more not having to pay for it. I've seen so many people on here say _"oh uber takes it percentage cut and then takes the SRF out of my total payout and poor lil me makes nothing except peanuts"._


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## NachonCheeze (Sep 8, 2015)

What exactly is the Pax getting from this "fee"..... fUber does some BS background check on the driver?


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

NachonCheeze said:


> What exactly is the Pax getting from this "fee"..... fUber does some BS background check on the driver?


Man, there sure are some whiny people on here. But then again that seems to be fairly common with your typical modern day American.

Well first of all I'm pretty sure the background checks arent all "BS". Yes some people have slipped through the cracks that had a checkered past but I'm sure there have been PLENTY of people who have been denied due to criminal background or driving history.

And from what I've read, could be wrong about this, that the SRF fee is used to help pay for their expensive insurance policy they need to maintain in order to stay in business.


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

andaas said:


> Uber is taking 49% or more of minimum fares in your market.


That just simply cannot be true.

Stop trying to blow smoke up my pooper.


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## Einstein (Oct 10, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> Thank you for posting. Ok I am well aware we dont earn the SRF but we also dont pay for it either, correct?
> 
> Thats more what I'm getting at...not earning it but more not having to pay for it. *I've seen so many people on here say "oh uber takes it percentage cut and then takes the SRF out of my total payout and poor lil me makes nothing except peanuts".*


They are mistaken.

The fare you see in your driver app is the total fare the pax pays including SRF.

To see your portion of the fare you need to look at your weekly earnings statement where the SRF is Not included in the total 'fare' (in the first column).

By showing you the total fare in the driver app, Uber causes confusion, and they cause further confusion by adding and subtracting it from your weekly earnings statement.

They do this because they want a paper trail showing that you earned the SRF for tax and legal purposes.


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## Einstein (Oct 10, 2015)

andaas said:


> Also when you consider the minimum fare in your market of $4.65, Uber takes the SRF from that minimum fare before commission, and then the 20% (or 25%) of the fare for their commission. This leaves you with earnings of $2.40 (or $2.25).
> 
> Uber is taking 49% or more of minimum fares in your market.





SanPedroLover said:


> That just simply cannot be true.
> 
> Stop trying to blow smoke up my pooper.


Actually andaas is quite correct for the minimum fare rides.


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## Uberduberdoo (Oct 22, 2015)

I think Its all about some fancy accounting Uber needs to do. The fee goes in , the fee comes out. we all wonder but tax time will tell.


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## Drive777 (Jan 23, 2015)

ubreduberdoo said:


> I think Its all about some fancy accounting Uber needs to do. The fee goes in , the fee comes out. we all wonder but tax time will tell.


When you get your 1099-K at the start of the year, Uber will combine all of your fares, SRF's and commissions into one gross amount.

In this sense, you DO earn the safe rider fee, and also Uber's commission because legally they set themselves up as a "payment processor" and nothing more (for tax purposes). This is why they report on form 1099-K instead of 1099-MISC.

Let's say a rider has a total cost of $10.00 charged to their credit card for a ride. In Dallas, the SRF is $1.70. The "fare" portion of the ride would be $8.30, from which Uber takes their commission and you're left with the rest (let's say 80%, or $6.64).

You never see the $1.70 SRF or the 20% commission, but Uber still reports your $10.00 in gross earnings to the IRS. They will not tell the IRS what your expenses are because that's your business responsibility. In other words:

* Passenger pays $10 for a ride, this is the total gross fare and all fees.
* Uber takes $1.70 for SRF, so you're down to $8.30.
* Uber then takes 20% in commission. You only "make" $6.64 on a ride that cost the passenger $10.00.
* The IRS thinks you made $10.00 because that's what Uber reports.
* Your passenger thinks the value of their ride is $10.00 (and they think wow, the driver made $10 for this ride, so no need to tip!)

The $10.00 was all yours to begin with, but per the partner agreement, the difference between $10 and $6.64 ($3.36) comes out of your pocket in the form of fees and commissions to Uber.

Therefore you need to deduct $3.36 in fees on your taxes, otherwise you are liable for taxes on 100% of all dollars processed in the transaction.


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## Einstein (Oct 10, 2015)

Drive777, you nailed it.

That is precisely what goes on!

This should be disclosed to every new driver before they sign the contract.

It takes up to a year of exploitation before most of us figure it out.


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## IckyDoody (Sep 18, 2015)

Drive777 said:


> When you get your 1099-K at the start of the year, Uber will combine all of your fares, SRF's and commissions into one gross amount.
> 
> In this sense, you DO earn the safe rider fee, and also Uber's commission because legally they set themselves up as a "payment processor" and nothing more (for tax purposes). This is why they report on form 1099-K instead of 1099-MISC.
> 
> ...


Op, this is the most detailed and correct explanation you will receive.


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## Drive777 (Jan 23, 2015)

Einstein said:


> Drive777, you nailed it.
> 
> That is precisely what goes on!
> 
> ...


It's too bad most independent contractors think in terms of 1099-MISC and aren't prepared to handle what Uber throws at them. If Uber wasn't so concerned about distancing themselves from their driver partners, they'd report what actually hits our bank account... and make keeping track of it all much easier.

The 1099-K designation (combined with the rating system as a form of real time, hands off driver management) is a firewall designed to "prove" they are technology company and not in the transportation business.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

if you're in los angeles, you make $2.40 on a minimum trip ride. that's all you need to know. you can all try to do the math or cause confusion because of uber's deception; but truth is truth that cannot be denied....after commission and srf on a minimum trip you make $2.40. that's the truth and cannot be disputed.


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## SanPedroLover (Oct 26, 2015)

oh for the love of the San Pedro spirit and all that is holy & spiritual & peaceful!!

Ok guys thanks for the replies and Drive777 for your breakdown. Still doesn't make sense to me so if you would be so kind please break it down with my first ride I posted earlier so I can see this from my 1 experience...

App tells me that the pax fare was $36 and change...I see a $1.80 charge and a $1.80 deduction which equals to zero...the app says my earning/pay-out is $27 and some change.

Where TF is that $1.80 at then? After Uber took their 25% cut of $9 and some change it's telling me I earned $27 and some change.

So are you saying that before they deposit the supposed "$27 and some change" into my bank account they are going to deduct $1.80 from that total? Nowhere have I seen that I had an actual deduction of $1.80 from my earning.


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## Einstein (Oct 10, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> oh for the love of the San Pedro spirit and all that is holy & spiritual & peaceful!!
> 
> Ok guys thanks for the replies and Drive777 for your breakdown. Still doesn't make sense to me so if you would be so kind please break it down with my first ride I posted earlier so I can see this from my 1 experience...
> 
> ...


What you see is correct. But the 36 and change does not include the SRF. This is what is displayed in your statement. You are just viewing the statement from the app.
When you completed the ride, the app displayed the total fare paid by the pax which was 37.80 plus some change.

Also, I didn't realize you are on the 25% commission contract. In this case a minimum fare ride for you will gross (4.80 - 1.80) x .75 = *2.25*
This assumes the full fare is 4.80.
How do you like that?


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## Altima ATL (Jul 13, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> Please explain that to me like I'm a 5 year old...
> 
> I dont know where we went wrong, it keep's playing over & over in my head...


OK - What is the SRF for? and if you answer that what is the Uber 20% (or in your case 25%) commission for?


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## Drive777 (Jan 23, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> App tells me that the pax fare was $36 and change...I see a $1.80 charge and a $1.80 deduction which equals to zero...the app says my earning/pay-out is $27 and some change.
> 
> Where TF is that $1.80 at then? After Uber took their 25% cut of $9 and some change it's telling me I earned $27 and some change.


If you're looking at the fare breakdown under the "Earnings" tab in your app, that may not show the total price paid by the customer. You need to log in to the partner web site, and click on your current pay statement at the upper right of the screen.

You can find a break down of your trip that looks like my screen shot. Add up the fare and the rider fee, and that is what the customer paid. In my example, $3.45 is the fare shown in my earnings tab, but $5.15 was actually the total price (and what appeared at the bottom of the app for my last trip when signed into driver mode).

So while Uber charged the rider $5.15, I only saw $2.76 hit my bank account.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Drive777 said:


> If you're looking at the fare breakdown under the "Earnings" tab in your app, that may not show the total price paid by the customer. You need to log in to the partner web site, and click on your current pay statement at the upper right of the screen.
> 
> You can find a break down of your trip that looks like my screen shot. Add up the fare and the rider fee, and that is what the customer paid. In my example, $3.45 is the fare shown in my earnings tab, but $5.15 was actually the total price (and what appeared at the bottom of the app for my last trip when signed into driver mode).
> 
> So while Uber charged the rider $5.15, I only saw $2.76 hit my bank account.


right. uber deducts the srf first and separately from the fare. that's how uber is able to get away with saying that srf does not affect driver pay. uber is saying that srf is not your pay so no matter how much they continue to increase it, it will not affect "your pay", although you will get less money due to the increase.


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## Altima ATL (Jul 13, 2015)

SanPedroLover said:


> Nowhere have I seen that I had an actual deduction of $1.80 from my earning.


It is smoke and mirrors being blown up your a$$ by Uber, to increase their cut of your earnings.

Is simple the SRF - the rider pays it, you don't receive it.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Altima ATL said:


> It is smoke and mirrors being blown up your a$$ by Uber, to increase their cut of your earnings.
> 
> Is simple the SRF - the rider pays it, you don't receive it.


true. but the srf is included in the fare (rates). it should be an added fee to the rider. in other words rider should pay the going rates in your city plus an additional fee for srf. as of now uber deducts it from the fare. that's driver money because we are being paid in accordance with the rates minus commission.


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## BC1045 (Oct 27, 2015)

Drive777 said:


> When you get your 1099-K at the start of the year, Uber will combine all of your fares, SRF's and commissions into one gross amount.
> 
> In this sense, you DO earn the safe rider fee, and also Uber's commission because legally they set themselves up as a "payment processor" and nothing more (for tax purposes). This is why they report on form 1099-K instead of 1099-MISC.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU! As an applicant having seen references to this "SRF" issue about which Uber Help was NOT helpful, this is the clearest explanation yet!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

SanPedroLover said:


> That just simply cannot be true.
> 
> Stop trying to blow smoke up my pooper.


The minimum GROSS fare in my market (Houston)--what the rider pays--is $6.07. 12 cents of that is 2% city tax. Uber calls the $5.95 that's left the "minimum fare" when speaking to the rider.

Of that $5.95, $1.95 is the SRF, leaving $4. Uber takes either 20 or 28% of that, depending on when the driver started.

So on a $6.07 fare (from the rider's point of view) WE get either $3.20 or $2.88. Close to or less than half.

It used to be the fare paid by the rider was $5.10 ($5 plus tax). When the SRF increased we of course got none of that. But many pax think we are getting 80% of what THEY pay. They also often think a tip is added in afterwards.

This contributes to them thinking we are doing OK with short runs especially as they have no clue about how the accounting works.

Yes, changing the SRF doesn't change our take home, but it gives the pax the impression we got a raise when ONLY Uber did.

Also, if you're a full time driver you could buy your own commercial insurance with less than what you're paying with the SRF. The background checks are a one time, or MAYBE yearly thing and cost very little.

I had to do a fingerprint check with the city of Houston and it was about $40 I think. I paid for it. When it was instituted MANY drivers were found that did not pass, although approved by Uber.

So what exactly is the SRF doing except giving Uber a raise but not us, and going the pax into thinking because they are paying more, we are getting more?

Yes, I don't get the confusion on the accounting side, but I've been self employed for years and don't care how they do it, but I think the way they do it is designed to obfuscate the truth about our real earnings and that's shady.

Also, the year before they did the accounting differently. How does that make sense?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

SanPedroLover said:


> Please let me know if I'm wrong in believing that the SRF is NOT coming out of the Driver's pocket?


Yes it comes from the driver's pocket. Here is how.

Back before the SRF existed many Uber drivers were getting $2.00 per mile. An $18 fare was pretty typical. Uber would take $3.60 of the fare (20%) and the driver kept $14.40.

Over the past couple years Uber has dropped the rates significantly to about an average of $1.00 per mile (some cities are less, some are more), while simultaneously introducing the SRF and raising it to about an average of $1.80 (some cities are less, some are more). That $18 fare now costs riders around $10.80. Of that $10.80 Uber keeps $3.60 ($1.80 from the SRF and 20% of the remaining $9.00 which is $1.80), and the driver keeps $7.20.

Look at that. Take a good look at that. TAKE A GOOD GOD DAMN LOOK AT THAT!!!!

When the fare was $18 prior to the rate drops and SRF hikes, Uber made $3.60 on that trip. Now that the fare for that same trip is $10.80, Uber still makes $3.60 on it.

HOW? Because the driver went from making $14.40 on the trip to $7.20.

Can we please stop with the argument that the SRF is not taken from the driver? Of course it is. Uber's accountants came up with the SRF strategy so that Uber could drop the rates without losing any revenue.


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## 7Miles (Dec 17, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Yes it comes from the driver's pocket. Here is how.
> 
> Back before the SRF existed many Uber drivers were getting $2.00 per mile. An $18 fare was pretty typical. Uber would take $3.60 of the fare (20%) and the driver kept $14.40.
> 
> ...


They will only see it when they get a minimum fare. When they see $2.25 after all the fees , they will get it. You don't feel it on a $36 fare much.if uber provided me $36 fares all the time, I would drive exclusively for Uber and pay 25% and $1.80 fee on top of it.

Btw, uber might make same money while lowering pay and taking more from drivers , but it comes with a nasty side effect . Most Uber drivers now are also Lyft drivers as well.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

the safe rider fee should be a contract between the rider and uber, the srf fee should in no way be part of the minimum fare..

it should be uber minimum fare + SRF = $,
Driver gets all of minimum fare - 20%..


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## Altima ATL (Jul 13, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> the safe rider fee should be a contract between the rider and uber, the srf fee should in no way be part of the minimum fare..
> 
> it should be uber fare + SRF = $


But it is


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

The Safe Rider Fee will be renamed and probably increased in the coming months. I think it's gonna be named something like Booking Fee or ride origination fee.


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