# Account paused due to fraudulent activity by intentionally delaying orders with Grub Hub



## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

Has anybody experienced that?


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I don't do food orders, but I think you saying that they are now probably assuming you are running multiple apps, and because you took time to PU the food, you're intentionally delaying them, ergo the nonsense warning ?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

As more drivers run several apps at once this issue is created. If drivers do DD and GH at the same time most prioritize DD where your on time and customer satisfaction are measured. This is part of GH answer to that.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

I've gotten a 'you haven't made any progress towards your destination' message (heaven forbid I go to the bathroom) but that's it.

How long are your holding up the order? I've picked up order that were 45+ minutes past the pickup time... so you must have accepted and did something other than the task.


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## GIGorJOB (Feb 29, 2020)

Something makes me think these are vague and generalized warnings or emails. It could be any number of reasons or they could just want to phase out some drivers maybe. Without getting clarification on your specific case it's hard to tell.

Definitely agree that using multiple apps would be the prime reasons for this particularly running another order for another app at the same time. As that would be intentional and with tracking I'm sure they would be comfortable in making that claim.

Also delaying orders could be their excuse for those who work on block and at some point or another get paid contribution/guaranteed pay. I'm sure they have had and continue to have issues with drivers taking their sweet time to milk it. A couple of wrong turns or some red lights and traffic and all of a sudden you might end up being accused of this. I would hope they would use better discretion and good faith determinations but at the same time they also reserve the right to terminate at any time for any reason. So having only half an excuse to pause or deactivate might be enough.

Lastly, it might also mean taking too long to complete orders, thinking the customer may cancel and you get free food. Sometimes stuff happens, mostly out of your control. Scary is if they send you late orders that have been bounced around or in the queue for a bit and there is no possible way to get it there on time and if they hold it against the driver, not saying they do. Bad enough the customer is probably already annoyed and likely blames the driver and increases your chances of complaints.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Bon Jovi said:


> Has anybody experienced that?


" TIPPERS EAT FIRST " !


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

A lot of these app companies are very confused about what fraud is. If GrubHub claims that a driver is delaying orders or working too slowly, that's not fraud; it's simply not working as fast as the company would like.

Fraud is obtaining a benefit of some kind from a victim via deception. Given that working slowly does not net a driver any benefit from GrubHub and there is also no deception involved, it cannot possibly be fraud.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

I do DD and Gh both at once and il stop at different restaurants to pick up food.
I never had a issue. 
Again im still green little over 1500 deliveries once i hit 3000 ill say im an expert .
How long are you sitting with the food after you pick it up ?


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## GIGorJOB (Feb 29, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> A lot of these app companies are very confused about what fraud is. If GrubHub claims that a driver is delaying orders or working too slowly, that's not fraud; it's simply not working as fast as the company would like.
> 
> Fraud is obtaining a benefit of some kind from a victim via deception. Given that working slowly does not net a driver any benefit from GrubHub and there is also no deception involved, it cannot possibly be fraud.


Good description, makes one think they should not being throwing the term out so loosely. Noticed many of these warnings are for potential or possible fraud, it's under investigation, etc, etc. "Fraud" could carry possible criminal and/or civil consequences or charges if filed and if it rises to that level. Not an attorney or anything but I don't know if something like this carries enough weight for anything criminal. Likely scare tactics thinking these drivers will go away quietly and less likely to pursue any sort of claim of wrongful termination or something because they went of the offensive but that's only my opinion.

Starting to think that it might have more to do with working on block and accepting guaranteed pay because although it may or may not be a great claim, that's a much stronger assertion, perhaps the strongest, they can make for actually being defrauded, again IMO. That and stealing food which may only be theft. Even if delayed or taking your time off block, if customers aren't regularly cancelling or cancelling at all, where you're getting free stuff, then you haven't actually obtained or gained anything.

Then again, they usually block restrict if they think it's block abuse or related to scheduling and guaranteed pay. So no idea what the difference is between that and this.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

The companies use threatening wording because a lot of Uber and other drivers are not capable of sifting thru the bullshit, or aren't solvent enough to do so.


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## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

NOXDriver said:


> I've gotten a 'you haven't made any progress towards your destination' message (heaven forbid I go to the bathroom) but that's it.
> 
> How long are your holding up the order? I've picked up order that were 45+ minutes past the pickup time... so you must have accepted and did something other than the task.


Yes, I did accept several orders that were way past the pickup time while on delivery with another GH delivery. I would always go straight to late delivery after completing delivery on hand.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

GIGorJOB said:


> "Fraud" could carry possible criminal and/or civil consequences or charges if filed and if it rises to that level. Not an attorney or anything but I don't know if something like this carries enough weight for anything criminal. Likely scare tactics ...


Working slower than Grubhub would like isn't fraud, and if they went to a DA to submit a complaint for fraud against a driver they would be laughed out of the building. You could be right - it could be a simple case of Grubhub believing that drivers generally know that fraud is a criminal offence but that they don't know what it constitutes, and they are throwing the term about in order to try to scare drivers.


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## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

kingcorey321 said:


> I do DD and Gh both at once and il stop at different restaurants to pick up food.
> I never had a issue.
> Again im still green little over 1500 deliveries once i hit 3000 ill say im an expert .
> How long are you sitting with the food after you pick it up ?


I'd go to my delivery destination right away.


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## GIGorJOB (Feb 29, 2020)

Bon Jovi said:


> Yes, I did accept several orders that were way past the pickup time while on delivery with another GH delivery. I would always go straight to late delivery after completing delivery on hand.


Were you on or off block? Was there anything else you could think of? Traffic, got lost, failed to deliver?

Don't know, don't have all the details, maybe making assumptions but it sounds like they stack your offers and send you late orders no one else wants and you get penalized for accepting them. Are we now supposed to reject orders that are passed pick up times? Maybe they don't want us stacking if it is going to delay things, prefer another driver picks it up, sounds reasonable. Shouldn't be an issue as they can now reassign orders anyway.

That's all they seem to want to send me is late orders, not complaining, happy to do them but I will also happily screw my acceptance rate for maintaining my account but don't necessarily want to be labeled a cherry pick either.

Forced into this line of thinking the other day when started noticing they were sending me farther away and paying me more, in most cases, than what the orders actually cost with the bonus and distance costs adding up. So there is no way they are making money on these.

We seem to know the consensus around paying out contribution but what about orders that they lose money on? Would they rather no one deliver them, or lose money and try to keep the customer?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

ANT 7 said:


> The companies use threatening wording because a lot of Uber and other drivers are not capable of sifting thru the bullshit, or aren't solvent enough to do so.


It's just another way of gig companies "not controlling" employees, oooops I meant independent contractors.


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## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

GIGorJOB said:


> Were you on or off block? Was there anything else you could think of? Traffic, got lost, failed to deliver?
> 
> Don't know, don't have all the details, maybe making assumptions but it sounds like they stack your offers and send you late orders no one else wants and you get penalized for accepting them. Are we now supposed to reject orders that are passed pick up times? Maybe they don't want us stacking if it is going to delay things, prefer another driver picks it up, sounds reasonable. Shouldn't be an issue as they can now reassign orders anyway.
> 
> ...


Believe me. I did everything I was supposed to do.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

observer said:


> It's just another way of gig companies "not controlling" employees, oooops I meant independent contractors.


Right. I imagine some drivers run GrubHub and Eats/DD etc at the same time. They might pick up a GH order first then have an Eats ping come through nearby. With GH on board they then go and get the Eats order and because the Eats order pays better they may decide to prioritise it and drop it first. GH then throws a fit and screams "Fraud!", when in actual fact it's just a case of an independent contractor managing his workload.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Right. I imagine some drivers run GrubHub and Eats/DD etc at the same time. They might pick up a GH order first then have an Eats ping come through nearby. With GH on board they then go and get the Eats order and because the Eats order pays better they may decide to prioritise it and drop it first. GH then throws a fit and screams "Fraud!", when in actual fact it's just a case of an independent contractor managing his workload.


Exactly.


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## GIGorJOB (Feb 29, 2020)

Last crack at it, anyone think that intentionally delaying orders could also mean not accepting or rejecting quick enough and letting the offers go "missed"?

If I was GH, don't know I would be particularly thrilled if the same driver accepted later for more money but as drivers we have no idea or guarantees we will be offered it again at a higher rate so there is no intention behind that. Pretty sure, they are on record about rejecting as quick as possible though.

The pausing/deactivating seems to happen to drivers with very high acceptance rates as well so don't know if that has anything to do with it, just like entertaining these idea. Might be willing to pay to learn what goes into making these decisions over at GH and that's meant as a compliment because I want to keep my access.


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