# Commercial auto policy



## Billd18037 (May 6, 2021)

Does everyone pay for a commercial rider or policy to supplement the ride-share company coverage, or do you just keep a personal auto policy. Geico recently told me they would cancel me if they found out I drove for a ride-share company.


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

Uber’s insurance isn’t very driver friendly. Most insurance companies will off additional ride share insurance to make up for Uber’s insurance. It’s not expensive, and I wouldn’t even think about driving for Uber without it.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

TobyD said:


> Uber’s insurance isn’t very driver friendly. Most insurance companies will off additional ride share insurance to make up for Uber’s insurance. It’s not expensive, and I wouldn’t even think about driving for Uber without it.


I agree with Mr @TobyD


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

I agree with Mr. Uber’s Guber


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

I agree with @TobyD's agreeing with @Uber's Guber agreeing with what @TobyD said.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

Billd18037 said:


> Does everyone pay for a commercial rider or policy to supplement the ride-share company coverage, or do you just keep a personal auto policy. Geico recently told me they would cancel me if they found out I drove for a ride-share company.


MOST people love playing Russian Roulette, meaning that no they do not have a commercial auto liability policy nor a ride-share rider upon their personal auto liability policy, choosing instead to violate the terms and conditions of their personal auto liability insurance policy, and in doing so are abducating from their moral and legal responsibilities.

Geico, as will ALL insurance companies providing personal auto insurance policies, (with one exception AFAIK,) have specific language within that policy stating to the effect that ANY commercial use of the covered vehicle is a violation of that policy and is grounds for cancellation of that policy for cause.



TobyD said:


> Uber’s insurance isn’t very driver friendly. Most insurance companies will off additional ride share insurance to make up for Uber’s insurance. It’s not expensive, and I wouldn’t even think about driving for Uber without it.


Uber's insurance has absolutely NOTHING to do with the language, exemptions, exclusions and policy violations contained within a PERSONAL auto liability insurance policy.


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## NGOwner (Nov 15, 2016)

BigJohn said:


> Geico, as will ALL insurance companies providing personal auto insurance policies, (with one exception AFAIK,) have specific language within that policy stating to the effect that ANY commercial use of the covered vehicle is a violation of that policy and is grounds for cancellation of that policy for cause.


I went over my AmFam policy with a fine tooth comb. Then searched and found all instances of commercial, business, void, cancel and cancellation. AmFam must be a(nother) exception. Their policy excludes coverage on vehicles used commercially (or in a business), but does not void the policies of those vehicles used commercially (or in a business).

Based on my interpretation of the policy documents, AND because all I have is liability coverage on my rideshare vehicle (which frankly is the only way you should be doing this gig), the Uber and Lyft apps act as an insurance switch. Switch off, AmFam liability policy covers me. Switch on, Uber and Lyft's liability policy covers me. AmFam doesn't (and shouldn't) care what I do with my car if their insurance becomes non-applicable. It's no different than if I regularly took the car into Mexico and had a policy from a Mexican company cover me while I'm there (it's common knowldege that US auto policies don't cover US vehicles in Mexico), or if I took the car regularly to a track and purchased supplimental insurace from the track for my use of their track knowing that AmFam's insurance excludes coverage on racetracks.

The only real question is: Is the disclosure of my rideshare usage material to the agreement. The answer to that is no. They have no exposure, therefore not material.

Geico and others may be different, but that's how the AmFam policy reads.

[NG]Owner


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

BigJohn said:


> MOST people love playing Russian Roulette, meaning that no they do not have a commercial auto liability policy nor a ride-share rider upon their personal auto liability policy, choosing instead to violate the terms and conditions of their personal auto liability insurance policy, and in doing so are abducating from their moral and legal responsibilities.
> 
> Geico, as will ALL insurance companies providing personal auto insurance policies, (with one exception AFAIK,) have specific language within that policy stating to the effect that ANY commercial use of the covered vehicle is a violation of that policy and is grounds for cancellation of that policy for cause.
> 
> ...


I don’t know what you’re talking about. And I kinda doubt anyone else does either. All I know is, if you get into an accident while driving for Uber, you’re screwed, unless you have additional rideshare insurance offered by your personal insurance company.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I had geico insurance when I started doing this thing. After a year with only my geico personal policy I finally decided to do it right. I shopped for a policy that had a rideshare addendum as has been said here, it’s cheap. And because it was cheap, I didn’t trust it. So I dropped Geico and bought a commercial liability policy. It’s expensive but now I sleep at night. To pay for it I got the local “vehicle for hire” permit and I do private rides in addition to Uber and Lyft


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

NGOwner said:


> I went over my AmFam policy with a fine tooth comb. Then searched and found all instances of commercial, business, void, cancel and cancellation. AmFam must be a(nother) exception. Their policy excludes coverage on vehicles used commercially (or in a business), but does not void the policies of those vehicles used commercially (or in a business).
> 
> Based on my interpretation of the policy documents,
> [NG]Owner


Based upon your interpretation will not stand up in court.

The section of the policy that talks about cancellation for cause may not mention specific reasons, but rather state that violation of any section of the policy...



TobyD said:


> I don’t know what you’re talking about. And I kinda doubt anyone else does either. All I know is, if you get into an accident while driving for Uber, you’re screwed, unless you have additional rideshare insurance offered by your personal insurance company.


Sounds like a statement someone would make that never reads the fine print of a contract, of which a auto liability policy is a contract.


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

BigJohn said:


> Sounds like a statement someone would make that never reads the fine print of a contract, of which a auto liability policy is a contract.


Yeah. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. No one reads the fine print. And no one in real life talks like that. Just you, and a few Ohio state grads.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

TobyD said:


> Yeah. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. No one reads the fine print. And no one in real life talks like that. Just you, and a few Ohio state grads.


I will take that as a compliment, since I was never in college. I just make it a point to fully read what I sign/purchase.


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## NGOwner (Nov 15, 2016)

I call bullshit. Fearmongering. I read the policy. Carefully. I'm not violating it. Period.

I am not asking AmFam to cover liability on the car while I am ridesharing. I am asking Uber/Lyft to. And they will.

I am not asking Uber/Lyft to cover liability when I am not using the car for rideshare. I am asking AmFam to. And they will. As per the agreement with them.

Prove me wrong, I've attached my policy in full. And make sure to note the Amendment in Kansas to Section D. Concealment Or Fraud. I'll cut to the chase. No intent to defraud. Not a material fact.

[NG]Owner


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Geico is the second worst insurance company in Murica. Only The Hartford is arguably worse. Remember Government Employees Insurance Company was born as a Government agency.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> Geico is the second worst insurance company in Murica. Only The Hartford is arguably worse. Remember Government Employees Insurance Company was born as a Government agency.


Geico was never an agency of the government. Geico has always been a private company. They started by marketing only to government employees


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Allstate has a rideshare add on policy and they match your deductible no matter how high Uber and Lyft raise it. Always make sure your insurance is the right one for using with rideshare


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Billd18037 said:


> Does everyone pay for a commercial rider or policy to supplement the ride-share company coverage


everybody who has assets should at least have an ins RS rider. And if they don't, they really need a conversation with their current insurance agent as most won't cover a driver who is doing RS ie commercial under any circumstance. I know State Farm doesn't wo a RS addon rider. 

Always best to tell your insurance agent everything.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

P


NGOwner said:


> I call bullshit. Fearmongering. I read the policy. Carefully. I'm not violating it. Period.
> 
> I am not asking AmFam to cover liability on the car while I am ridesharing. I am asking Uber/Lyft to. And they will.
> 
> ...


ersonal Vehicle Sharing Program sure sounds like ridesharing


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

SHalester said:


> everybody who has assets should at least have an ins RS rider. And if they don't, they really need a conversation with their current insurance agent as most won't cover a driver who is doing RS ie commercial under any circumstance. I know State Farm doesn't wo a RS addon rider.
> 
> Always best to tell your insurance agent everything.


How much extra is the rider usually?


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## NGOwner (Nov 15, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Personal Vehicle Sharing Program sure sounds like ridesharing


The Personal Vehicle Sharing Program references in the doc are irrelevent.

None are relevent because the _Kansas Changes to the Family Car Form_ more precisely define what I am (what we all are) doing. Namely we are *Transportation Network Company Drivers*. Therefore Kansans operating for Uber and/or Lyft do not fall under ANY Personal Vehicle Sharing Program clauses in that doc. We are governed by the Transportation Network Company clauses. The liability revisions in_ Kansas Changes to the Family Car Form_ regarding Transporation Networks explicitly say:

This coverage does not apply to:
1. bodily injury or property damage arising out of the ownership, maintenance, or use of a vehicle:
...
"c. during a prearranged ride; or
d. when any transportation network company has been notified that the vehicle is available for carrying persons or property."

There is no notification requirement. No TNC endorsement requirement (this is for Liability Only; for Coll/Comp you better have one).

The overarching commentary here is to CRITICALLY READ YOUR POLICY. Only then will really understand what coverage you have, and whether you are violating any terms of the coverage (and placing your policy at risk).

[NG]Owner


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I get it, you read this as saying that when you are on the app (have notified a TNC that you are available) they wont pay, which you take as meaning that they will pay if you are off the app

I would read the same thing as saying , if you sign up for Uber you have notified a TNC of your availability, and therefore you are not covered

Ive been around long enough that if there is any way an insurance company can interpret a policy in their favor, they will. They will deny coverage and force you to sue them. At least that's the attitude I take when talking to insurance companies and thats the reason I bought a full blown commercial liability policy

With any luck neither of us will have an accident


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> How much extra is the rider usually?


mine is about $150 a year give/take. State Farm kinda makes it impossible to figure it out for some strange reason. One has to ask them, or you figure it would based on your last full year of insurance, assuming, there were no other changes. For 2020 I had to ask them what they thought it was and used that on my schedule C.


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## Billd18037 (May 6, 2021)

NGOwner said:


> I went over my AmFam policy with a fine tooth comb. Then searched and found all instances of commercial, business, void, cancel and cancellation. AmFam must be a(nother) exception. Their policy excludes coverage on vehicles used commercially (or in a business), but does not void the policies of those vehicles used commercially (or in a business).
> 
> Based on my interpretation of the policy documents, AND because all I have is liability coverage on my rideshare vehicle (which frankly is the only way you should be doing this gig), the Uber and Lyft apps act as an insurance switch. Switch off, AmFam liability policy covers me. Switch on, Uber and Lyft's liability policy covers me. AmFam doesn't (and shouldn't) care what I do with my car if their insurance becomes non-applicable. It's no different than if I regularly took the car into Mexico and had a policy from a Mexican company cover me while I'm there (it's common knowldege that US auto policies don't cover US vehicles in Mexico), or if I took the car regularly to a track and purchased supplimental insurace from the track for my use of their track knowing that AmFam's insurance excludes coverage on racetracks.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, because I'm not a contract lawyer. You are saying that if you get in an accident while driving with the app on, then your insurance will just deny the claim. Because as I read the Uber insurance contract, they will only pay a claim if our insurance


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## Billd18037 (May 6, 2021)

NGOwner said:


> I call bullshit. Fearmongering. I read the policy. Carefully. I'm not violating it. Period.
> 
> I am not asking AmFam to cover liability on the car while I am ridesharing. I am asking Uber/Lyft to. And they will.
> 
> ...


I've been told that Uber/Lyft will present the claim first to the driver's own policy. They will only pay after our insurance does or if they reject the claim. Geico told me if a claim is submitted for a ride-share accident, they would deny the claim and cancel my policy.


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## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> Geico is the second worst insurance company in Murica. Only The Hartford is arguably worse. Remember Government Employees Insurance Company was born as a Government agency.


BS


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