# Suspended & DEACTIVATED for asking ID



## Umut (Nov 20, 2018)

I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID. 

5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.

I don’t know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


That's a nice ride.

You can still do Lux.


----------



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

How did the "asking for ID" conversation go? Care to elaborate?

Why did you ask for ID? I take kids to school and other places all the time.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

In California, it is illegal for drivers to pick up minors without an adult (18+).


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

So you asked to see ID to make sure they were 18, and they showed it to you, proving that they were old enough, and then you gave them the scheduled ride? Did you explain to them why you were asking, i.e., that you cannot, according to Uber's official policy, transport unaccompanied minors? 

Did you explain to the person at the UberHub what happened -- that you were simply enforcing their policy? Did they explain to you why they were deactivating you?

Something about this doesn't seem right.


----------



## Umut (Nov 20, 2018)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> How did the "asking for ID" conversation go? Care to elaborate?
> 
> Why did you ask for ID? I take kids to school and other places all the time.


 They got irritated after I asked their IDs. No conversation after it. Not even they said thank you sir when they get out


----------



## 911 Guy (Feb 8, 2018)

Something doesn't smell right. Please give more details. Or are you "Smolleting us"? I really hope I'm the first....


----------



## LyftNewbie10 (Apr 19, 2018)

Sorry to hear about that.  You're damned if you ask, you're damned if you don't ask and transport an unaccompanied minor.

*It's up to Uber and Lyft to screen out minors!!* That should happen during the application process.


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


Does discrimination based on age apply for sex also? 
Asking for a friend


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

911 Guy said:


> Something doesn't smell right. Please give more details. Or are you "Smolleting us"? I really hope I'm the first....


It's BS. Oh, and the other poster knows almost nothing about age discrimination.

(Clue. It doesn't apply to minors)


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Does discrimination based on age apply for sex also?
> Asking for a friend


It applies when it comes to "giving someone a ride" ?


----------



## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

I love how posters here weave great stories about how they were deactivated from the rideshare platforms, yet show no other evidence other then a blanket "I wuz robbed" statement.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> How did the "asking for ID" conversation go? Care to elaborate?
> 
> Why did you ask for ID? I take kids to school and other places all the time.


I take it that you're aware that, because Uber's official policy explicitly prohibits the transporting of minors, Uber's insurance will not cover them in the event of accidental injury. Neither will your own insurance, unless you have special commercial insurance for precisely that purpose which explicitly covers unaccompanied minors.

Go ahead and keep transporting kids if you like. But rolling the dice for a few bucks, over and over again, is a practice which some may come to regret -- big time. Uber will be happy for you to continue to assume all the risk while they continue to get their taste.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


2 teenagers - male or female ???
If you ask for a id, especially females , make sure to note that in comments section .... " pax looked under aged, 
Etc etc


----------



## RadarRider (Feb 12, 2019)

Ask for the deactivation in writing and why.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

It sucks these companies don't do their jobs, I get a lot of minors.


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

If it the account holder and if they look old enough that good enough. Obviously if it was an minor riding solo that a completely different thing.

On the bright side you have a lot of time to do other things now.


----------



## BikingBob (May 29, 2018)

DistrictHub to tell you that you were done? Where is the OP and why haven't they followed up with this?


----------



## GTADriver (Jan 24, 2019)

BikingBob said:


> DistrictHub to tell you that you were done? Where is the OP and why haven't they followed up with this?


Ya I agree. Since when does uber or even lyft want to meet with drivers to inform them they are being deactivated. It's usually a call from their safety team followed by a good bye best of luck we want nothing to do with you email. Very fishy thread.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Sorry, I am not showing my ID to some driver who may or may not have a dash cam recording this. Sounds like a great way for a future stalker to get your personal information. Asking for such personal information would make me very uncomfortable.


----------



## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Umut said:


> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60.


You bought a $40,000 car for uber? LOL


----------



## Yulli Yung (Jul 4, 2017)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


There has to be more to this story than you are writing?


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


If your story really happened I guess you can drive for Lyft.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Sorry, I am not showing my ID to some driver who may or may not have a dash cam recording this. Sounds like a great way for a future stalker to get your personal information. Asking for such personal information would make me very uncomfortable.


Fine by me. If you looked under age. I cancel and collect. Works great!


----------



## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

911 Guy said:


> Something doesn't smell right. Please give more details. Or are you "Smolleting us"? I really hope I'm the first....


LMAO!!! *Smolleting* us! My new word!

Shame.....shame.....on Jussie....


----------



## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


Something doesn't add up here.

There's at least a "Dear John" letter of some sort involved with permanent deactivations.

Are you sure it wasn't the standard 24 to 48 hour time out for alleged "Under the influence" accusation?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Fine by me. If you looked under age. I cancel and collect. Works great!


Fine by me I will get my money back after reporting the incident and how it made me feel uncomfortable.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Fine by me I will get my money back after reporting the incident and how it made me feel uncomfortable.


Cool, then we both win. I collect and you look the fool. Oh wait, I guess I'd win twice.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Cool, then we both win. I collect and you look the fool. Oh wait, I guess I'd win twice.


I am not all that concerned how I look in your or others eyes, it is about safety and principle I likely did not have you pick me up or drop me off at my actual address for a reason.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I am not all that concerned how I look in your or others eyes, it is about safety and principle I likely did not have you pick me up or drop me off at my actual address for a reason.


But the driver deserves no safety?

OK, got it.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> But the driver deserves no safety?
> 
> OK, got it.


Did I get in your vehicle and ask for your ID?


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Did I get in your vehicle and ask for your ID?


Do you go into a liquor store and ask the clerk for their ID? No, that not how it works. We provide a service that has an age restriction. I dont gamble if they look under age I dont let them in and collect the cancellation fee just like @BigRedDriver .


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Do you go into a liquor store and ask the clerk for their ID? No, that not how it works. We provide a service that has an age restriction. I dont gamble if they look under age I dont let them in and collect the cancellation fee just like @BigRedDriver .


I will gladly get another driver and pay no cancellation fee. Report to Uber that you believe that I am underage all you want I am more than happy to go to their green light hub and verify but I will not be showing my driver anything that has my address or other personally identifiable information on it.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I will gladly get another driver and pay no cancellation fee. Report to Uber that you believe that I am underage all you want I am more than happy to go to their green light hub and verify but I will not be showing my driver anything that has my address or other personally identifiable information on it.


In my experience that is not how it works. I drive by the pickup location and see a clueless child. I keep driving and park down the road. After 3 minutes you see the kid on his phone calling his parents (the real account holder) you see the kid looking around for you then call mommy back. @ 5 minutes mark cancel and collect. Sometimes I'll wait for the reping and do it again!


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> In my experience that is not how it works. I drive by the pickup location and see a clueless child. I keep driving and park down the road. After 3 minutes you see the kid on his phone calling his parents (the real account holder) you see the kid looking around for you then call mommy back. @ 5 minutes mark cancel and collect. Sometimes I'll wait for the reping and do it again!


I am not underage in any way shape or form far from it actually. What you get paid often has no relationship to what the passenger pays. If Uber wants to pay you a cancelation fee that you did not earn that is on them and not my concern. All that I am concerned with is that I as the passenger am not being charged for this fee and I always in the end do not get charged fraudulent fees from drivers.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> If Uber wants to pay you a cancelation fee that you did not earn that is on them and not my concern


I did earn the cancellation fee, I drove to a location and wasted my time to get to a passenger that I am not legally allowed to pickup.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> I did earn the cancellation fee, I drove to a location and wasted my time to get to a passenger that I am not legally allowed to pickup.


You are legally allowed to pick them up assuming they are actually 18 even under depending on your jurisdiction. TOS does not equal the law. At the end of the day this is a problem that Uber / Lyft will have to find a way to solve. You have two competing interests one privacy and the other TOS / creeping on passengers.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> You are legally allowed to pick them up assuming they are actually 18 even under


No I'm not, 1 day under 18 and it is a crime.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> No I'm not, 1 day under 18 and it is a crime.


As I said assuming they are actually over 18....(nice cut leaving of where I said depending on your jurisdiction) either way I will not be showing the driver my ID and I will not be charged a cancelation fee by Uber. I may have to get another driver if you are the one to show up but I am ok with waiting a little longer.


----------



## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

*Uberfunitis*
TOS is not the law as you state. But picking up and transporting a minor is a violation of TOS and if the worst happens (accident) it's our ass flapping in the breeze. Their insurance won't touch it and neither will our personal insurance.

When using yourself as an example we on this forum have no idea of your age or how young/old you look. If indeed you do look younger than 18 and are asked for ID it can be presented with a thumb over the name/address part. All we need to see is the picture and date of birth.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> *Uberfunitis*
> TOS is not the law as you state. But picking up and transporting a minor is a violation of TOS and if the worst happens (accident) it's our ass flapping in the breeze. Their insurance won't touch it and neither will our personal insurance.


I don't advocate picking up under 18 but where have you seen that insurance would not cover. As far as I have read if you have paid passenger in the vehicle the insurance is in effect. Please direct me where there is any indication that insurance will not cover for x or y reason provided you are on a trip.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

I’ve seen this bit about no insurance if pax are unaccompanied minors before and wondered how that could be. No jury is going to let Uber off the hook if a pax is injured, regardless of what the TOS says about minors, and Uber has to cover themselves.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> As I said assuming they are actually over 18....(nice cut leaving of where I said depending on your jurisdiction) either way I will not be showing the driver my ID and I will not be charged a cancelation fee by Uber. I may have to get another driver if you are the one to show up but I am ok with waiting a little longer.


Then wait. Nobody cares. What exactly are you trying to prove?

Then don't show ID. But if a driver refuses you because you look under age (or act under age, as is the case of your posts) then don't complain. Eat it and move on. We really could care less.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> Does discrimination based on age apply for sex also?
> Asking for a friend


Only if premature ejaculation of the question about their age occurs....


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Older Chauffeur said:


> I've seen this bit about no insurance if pax are unaccompanied minors before and wondered how that could be. No jury is going to let Uber off the hook if a pax is injured, regardless of what the TOS says about minors, and Uber has to cover themselves.


Call your insurance rep. See what he/she says. Mine said to avoid them like the plague.


----------



## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

"Please direct me where there is any indication that insurance will not cover for x or y reason provided you are on a trip. "

To my knowledge that particular set of circumstances is not written anywhere. Why? Because there is no need to put in in writing. TOS says no unaccompanied minor so that minor should not be in the vehicle. If they are and an accident occurs and that minor is injured the parents will sue. Uber's insurance will not cover an unauthorized ride/accident. Personal insurance will not cover any ride share accident. That leaves the driver responsible and the one to get sued.

If you need absolute proof do your own research. I'll stick with common sense.


----------



## NORMY (Jan 2, 2017)

LyftNewbie10 said:


> Sorry to hear about that.  You're damned if you ask, you're damned if you don't ask and transport an unaccompanied minor.
> 
> *It's up to Uber and Lyft to screen out minors!!* That should happen during the application process.


Not giving a sh..T is a priceless trait in this business


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

amazinghl said:


> You bought a $40,000 car for uber? LOL


Yup.
That's what I got out of it too.
smh


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

As already mentioned a few times, there has to be more to the story...


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Then wait. Nobody cares. What exactly are you trying to prove?
> 
> Then don't show ID. But if a driver refuses you because you look under age (or act under age, as is the case of your posts) then don't complain. Eat it and move on. We really could care less.


That is where the problem is, I don't fault the driver I fault the ride share company for not providing a way to verify age etc. I will not eat the cost and will continue on because this is something that Uber can and should fix. I will not give my ID to the driver and I will not pay a cancel fee it is that simple.



BCS DRIVER said:


> "Please direct me where there is any indication that insurance will not cover for x or y reason provided you are on a trip. "
> 
> To my knowledge that particular set of circumstances is not written anywhere. Why? Because there is no need to put in in writing. TOS says no unaccompanied minor so that minor should not be in the vehicle. If they are and an accident occurs and that minor is injured the parents will sue. Uber's insurance will not cover an unauthorized ride/accident. Personal insurance will not cover any ride share accident. That leaves the driver responsible and the one to get sued.
> 
> If you need absolute proof do your own research. I'll stick with common sense.


I have read nothing to indicate what you say is true and there have been no cases in ride share history that I am aware of that would prove your point. There are accidents all the time with Uber I am quite sure that if someone underage was hurt and the ride share company washed their hands it would have been all over the news.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I will not give my ID to the driver and I will not pay a cancel fee it is that simple.


Since you look like an old man it's not an issue for you. The people who look under 20 are the ones affected by this, why do you think everything is about you? Narcissistic?

For the people continuously disputing cancellation fees, that wont last. Uber will either ban you or stop giving you coupons that you call refunds.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Since you look like an old man it's not an issue for you. The people who look under 20 are the ones affected by this, why do you think everything is about you? Narcissistic?
> 
> For the people continuously disputing cancellation fees, that wont last. Uber will either ban you or stop giving you coupons that you call refunds.


I can actually put myself in someones position besides myself and empathize with them, I know that is hard for some people to do.

For the drivers who continuously claim no shows at a rate higher than other drivers, that won't last. Uber will either deactivate you or stop giving no show cancelations fees to you.


----------



## Ricardo Resolute (Feb 18, 2019)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> How did the "asking for ID" conversation go? Care to elaborate?
> 
> Why did you ask for ID? I take kids to school and other places all the time.


I'm sure there are 3 sides to this drama

What he said
What she said
What really happened
And I suspect what "really" happened was NOTHING.
We've just been "Smollett"




BikingBob said:


> DistrictHub to tell you that you were done? Where is the OP and why haven't they followed up with this?


Something tells me OP is full of crap.
Greenlight calls him in?
Nonsense

You're deactived through app, period.
No ceremony
No "district manager"

@Umut is pulling a* "**Smollett"*
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/22/6970...-removed-from-final-episodes-of-empire-season


----------



## uber_from_the north (Dec 19, 2017)

GTADriver said:


> Ya I agree. Since when does uber or even lyft want to meet with drivers to inform them they are being deactivated. It's usually a call from their safety team followed by a good bye best of luck we want nothing to do with you email. Very fishy thread.


Yeah this line



> then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.


Seems to be odd.


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


You can't give teenagers a ride they have to be 18. Is there more to this story?



Ricardo Resolute said:


> I'm sure there are 3 sides to this drama
> 
> What he said
> What she said
> ...


Dude you will be fired for driving kids under 18. They find out and ins won't cover you


----------



## Ricardo Resolute (Feb 18, 2019)

Pro


Crosbyandstarsky said:


> You can't give teenagers a ride they have to be 18. Is there more to this story?
> 
> 
> Dude you will be fired for driving kids under 18. They find out and ins won't cover you


Professor @Crosbyandstarsky
The incident @Umut discribes
Never occurred.

You've been duped*

*duped
/do͞op/
_verb_
past tense: *duped*; past participle: *duped*

deceive; trick.


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Bbonez said:


> Since you look like an old man it's not an issue for you. The people who look under 20 are the ones affected by this, why do you think everything is about you? Narcissistic?
> 
> For the people continuously disputing cancellation fees, that wont last. Uber will either ban you or stop giving you coupons that you call refunds.


Our ins won't cover anyone under 18 and lose our job for picking them up so no Id no ride. Please don't make things harder for drivers. Be a decent guy



Uberfunitis said:


> That is where the problem is, I don't fault the driver I fault the ride share company for not providing a way to verify age etc. I will not eat the cost and will continue on because this is something that Uber can and should fix. I will not give my ID to the driver and I will not pay a cancel fee it is that simple.
> 
> 
> I have read nothing to indicate what you say is true and there have been no cases in ride share history that I am aware of that would prove your point. There are accidents all the time with Uber I am quite sure that if someone underage was hurt and the ride share company washed their hands it would have been all over the news.


Read the rules. We have had numerous warnings by email from uber about this. At least 5 this past year


----------



## UberNLV (Mar 17, 2017)

Uber tells us to ask for ID if we're not sure of person's age:

https://help.uber.com/partners/arti...-?nodeId=43b84de6-758b-489e-b088-7ee69c749ccd


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


Omg. Please read the rules or write uber. Can't give peo0le rides under age 18


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Crosbyandstarsky said:


> Our ins won't cover anyone under 18 and lose our job for picking them up so no Id no ride. Please don't make things harder for drivers. Be a decent guy
> 
> 
> Read the rules. We have had numerous warnings by email from uber about this. At least 5 this past year


I have read the rules and yes I agree they will deactivate people who give such rides. If they have even hinted anywhere that their insurance would not cover passenger injuries regardless of the situation please fill me in.


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

UberNLV said:


> Uber tells us to ask for ID if we're not sure of person's age:
> 
> https://help.uber.com/partners/arti...-?nodeId=43b84de6-758b-489e-b088-7ee69c749ccd


Thanks for this post. Lots of drivers don't seem to know the rules.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

UberNLV said:


> Uber tells us to ask for ID if we're not sure of person's age:
> 
> https://help.uber.com/partners/arti...-?nodeId=43b84de6-758b-489e-b088-7ee69c749ccd


One of the problems is that people scam the system. When they think there is someone underage they don't claim such they instead claim it was a no show. Not everyone runs around with an ID or even has one especially in the bigger places with good public transportation.


----------



## Cape67 (May 17, 2016)

Officially Uber "prohibits" minors without an adult present for legal reason. 
UNofficially there are hordes of ants who take minors anyway, the minors riding on their parent's account.
Uber basically wants their drivers to continue breaking the law at their (the driver's) risk, while maintaining the "official" facade that you cannot run minors. 

If drivers start asking for IDs then that breaks the dish. And we can't have that, now can we.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I have read the rules and yes I agree they will deactivate people who give such rides. If they have even hinted anywhere that their insurance would not cover passenger injuries regardless of the situation please fill me in.


I find it very difficult to believe that Uber would put themselves in a position to be sued for $millions and have to pay it themselves because of inadequate insurance. The injured party has the option of going for a) company worth billions, or b) uberbastid worth hundreds. 
Go ahead and get a judgement for millions against me, hell, make it billions -- same likelihood of seeing any money either way.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Umut said:


> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


Seems like an awfully expensive ride to do ride sharing in. Although on the other side, BMW and Daimler have a $1.1B ride sharing partnership as per CNBC this afternoon. So what do I know?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Seems like an awfully expensive ride to do ride sharing in. Although on the other side, BMW and Daimler have a $1.1B ride sharing partnership as per CNBC this afternoon. So what do I know?


Mercedes has a car sharing service as well

https://www.car2go.com/US/en/#152743


----------



## Ricardo Resolute (Feb 18, 2019)

Cape67 said:


> Officially Uber "prohibits" minors without an adult present for legal reason.
> UNofficially there are hordes of ants who take minors anyway, the minors riding on their parent's account.
> Uber basically wants their drivers to continue breaking the law at their (the driver's) risk, while maintaining the "official" facade that you cannot run minors.
> 
> If drivers start asking for IDs then that breaks the dish. And we can't have that, now can we.


Haven't met an Ant yet that would reject any minor nor alligator ? 
It's about the money ? 
U want rules? Join the army 
We're uber drivers
Working poor
No Lawyer on the planet will take a case to sue the poor



Uberfunitis said:


> Mercedes has a car sharing service as well
> 
> https://www.car2go.com/US/en/#152743


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.


So, if a kid wants a sip outta my tall-boy Bud light -- I gotta give it up?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> So, if a kid wants a sip outta my tall-boy Bud light -- I gotta give it up?


I hope that you are not driving with that Bud Light.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> For the drivers who continuously claim no shows at a rate higher than other drivers, that won't last. Uber will either deactivate you or stop giving no show cancelations fees to you.


Well the driver has GPS data to protect them. The minor who had their parents order the ride dont have proof. Uber can look at the requested pickup location and ant drivers GPS coordinates. Easy to prove the we are OWED a cancellation fee for the trip.



Crosbyandstarsky said:


> Our ins won't cover anyone under 18 and lose our job for picking them up so no Id no ride. Please don't make things harder for drivers. Be a decent guy


Why are you directing this comment at me?



Uberfunitis said:


> When they think there is someone underage they don't claim such they instead claim it was a no show.


How do you know what drivers are clicking when they request a cancellation fee? One of the legitimate reasons to cancel is "unaccompanied minor" Click that get your $ and on to the next one....


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> So, if a kid wants a sip outta my tall-boy Bud light -- I gotta give it up?


It is Uber's TOS. So if Uber supplied the tall-boy the answer would be yes.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Well the driver has GPS data to protect them. The minor who had their parents order the ride dont have proof. Uber can look at the requested pickup location and ant drivers GPS coordinates. Easy to prove the we are OWED a cancellation fee for the trip.
> 
> Why are you directing this comment at me?
> 
> How do you know what drivers are clicking when they request a cancellation fee? One of the legitimate reasons to cancel is "unaccompanied minor" Click that get your $ and on to the next one....


Yes there is GPS data that shows that you are down the street. Not to mention if there are multiple complaints about you hiding to avoid the trip Uber will see a pattern eventually. You assume that they are a minor on their parents account, but you have no idea Uber could know if they want to verify however you will not be verifying my ID as the driver that much I can tell you. It is nice when I turn the camera around and send in a pic of myself and say do I really look underage this guy is canceling for some other reason.... race, weight, sex I don't know I just know that there is no way that I look underage to anyone.

Every time I have clicked on unaccompanied minor I have never got a cancelation fee. You must be luckier than I am.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I hope that you are not driving with that Bud Light.


Well ... ** snort ** of _course _I am. 
Everybody gets a lunch break.

That's why its a 16 oz tall-boy instead of a glass 40 oz bottle ... reserve that for dinner (with a Twinkie).


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> You assume that they are a minor on their parents account


If they had their own account, they could look at it and see my location on the app. They would know my car, plate #, and see me drive by. I typically only do this at school pickups.



Uberfunitis said:


> Every time I have clicked on unaccompanied minor I have never got a cancelation fee. You must be luckier than I am.


It's not about luck, wait the 5 minutes and you will get the fee.

And if you think uber will deactivate a driver over some cancellation fees you should talk to some of the deplorables perhaps @3.75 can enlighten you.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> If they had their own account, they could look at it and see my location on the app. They would know my car, plate #, and see me drive by. I typically only do this at school pickups.
> 
> It's not about luck, wait the 5 minutes and you will get the fee.
> 
> And if you think uber will deactivate a driver over some cancellation fees you should talk to some of the deplorables perhaps @3.75 can enlighten you.


I am not going to go chasing you down as you drive past. The pin and address are correct there is no reason to move from the designated pick up location. Uber may not care presently but that is no guarantee that will continue. I can tell you that uber does not currently care about refunding passengers when drivers play games.... ask me how I know.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> The pin and address are correct there is no reason to move from the designated pick up location. Uber may not care presently but that is no guarantee that will continue.


That will never change because a lot of the time it is not safe to pickup at the pin. Passengers expect us to double park, block traffic, or whatever it takes to keep them from walking a half block or as you say "chasing us down". Uber knows this so as long as I'm within a reasonable distance they will continue to pay me the 375 pennies.

What you call a refund they call a coupon, it forces you to use uber next time you need a ride.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> What you call a refund they call a coupon, it forces you to use uber next time you need a ride.


Currently sitting on over 16 in credit. I don't mind, I use Uber often.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Currently sitting on over 16 in credit. I don't mind, I use Uber often.


You sound like the most entitled Pax on the planet. Do you complain about every ride? You probably report all drivers as drunk and request a refund. I hope you get some cleaning fees in your future you sound like a messy pax.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> You sound like the most entitled Pax on the planet. Do you complain about every ride? You probably report all drivers as drunk and request a refund. I hope you get some cleaning fees in your future you sound like a messy pax.


Nope I only report drivers who play games.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Nope I only report drivers who play games.


What's wrong with you? Do you have a rotten stench? Hideous? Exceed max weight limit on most passenger vehicles? Try to fit 10 pax into an X? There needs to be a reason why so many drivers "play games" with you. Most drivers want to get you in the car and to your destination as quickly and safely as possible. Perhaps you are the one playing games since it happens so frequently.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> What's wrong with you? Do you have a rotten stench? Hideous? Exceed max weight limit on most passenger vehicles? Try to fit 10 pax into an X? There needs to be a reason why so many drivers "play games" with you. Most drivers want to get you in the car and to your destination as quickly and safely as possible. Perhaps you are the one playing games since it happens so frequently.


Nice try actually have a high rating.... to many drivers think it is more profitable to not give a ride.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

I’ll bet R Kelly is fine with rideshare drivers both picking up and delivering minors. 

Hmmmmmmm


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Nice try actually have a high rating.... to many drivers think it is more profitable to not give a ride.


It might be more profitable not to give the ride, but that's not why they do it to you so frequently.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.
> View attachment 299604


You obviously don't know much about what age discrimination is. Hint: it doesn't apply to minors.



Bbonez said:


> You sound like the most entitled Pax on the planet. Do you complain about every ride? You probably report all drivers as drunk and request a refund. I hope you get some cleaning fees in your future you sound like a messy pax.


But he has a ton of participation trophies!


----------



## JLaw1719 (Apr 11, 2017)

Depends on how you asked and explained it. I’ve never done it myself but I suppose if you came off weird or creepy, they might have thought you were asking to find out where they both lived.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Sorry, I am not showing my ID to some driver who may or may not have a dash cam recording this. Sounds like a great way for a future stalker to get your personal information. Asking for such personal information would make me very uncomfortable.


As a driver, what do you do when you suspect the rider is under 18?

Do you object to showing the store clerk your ID when buying alcohol?



Uberfunitis said:


> As far as I have read if you have paid passenger in the vehicle the insurance is in effect.


This is true, the insurance is on the ride set up through the app. Uber cannot leave the pax exposed. If I am using my neighbors account to do rides, they are still covered. If the ride is set up through the app, it is covered.



Uberfunitis said:


> Every time I have clicked on unaccompanied minor I have never got a cancelation fee. You must be luckier than I am.


you must not be waiting the proper amount of time. Any reason you select other than do not charge rider will pay as long as you meet the requirements.



Trafficat said:


> I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


so I can send my 12 y/o kid to get me a bottle of jack and place a bet ?


----------



## Umut (Nov 20, 2018)

That's what office told me I'm not supposed to ask anyone ID, any question. Only name when they get on my car, i'm not even supposed to ask their last name they said



mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.
> View attachment 299604


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.
> View attachment 299604


I don't care what state you're in. Age discrimination doesn't apply to minors



Trafficat said:


> I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


----------



## Talcire (May 18, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Then wait. Nobody cares. What exactly are you trying to prove?
> 
> Then don't show ID. But if a driver refuses you because you look under age (or act under age, as is the case of your posts) then don't complain. Eat it and move on. We really could care less.


*couldn't


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

You say potato, I say tomato.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

This is straight from Rohit's mouth


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> I don't care what state you're in. Age discrimination doesn't apply to minors


Age discrimination is not just about old people.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/dicks-sporting-goods-settles-lawsuit-gun-sale-age-restrictions/
https://pix11.com/2015/02/19/no-kids-allowed-moms-with-kids-expose-discrimination-from-businesses/
It depends on the wording of the law. Your incorrect assumption is a common one, based on the wording of federal employment law. The wording in Nevada law is much broader than federal employment law.


----------



## Antvirus (Jan 6, 2019)

Tnasty said:


> I get a lot of minors.


username checks out


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> Nope I only report drivers who play games.


I'm sure you'll do as you like, but snitching is usually not that wise. People really don't take it that well, and you never know when you will be running into the man you snitched on.

As far as "playing games", you have to expect it. Uber games the pax and the partners, the pax game the partners and Uber, the partners game Uber and the pax. Everyone is looking for the financial advantage. The pax want free rides, the others are seeking to improve their own financial shares. Taking it personally isn't that healthy in my view


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Age discrimination is not just about old people.
> 
> https://www.opb.org/news/article/dicks-sporting-goods-settles-lawsuit-gun-sale-age-restrictions/
> https://pix11.com/2015/02/19/no-kids-allowed-moms-with-kids-expose-discrimination-from-businesses/
> It depends on the wording of the law. Your incorrect assumption is a common one, based on the wording of federal employment law. The wording in Nevada law is much broader than federal employment law.


Ummm, did you notice that prohibiting gun purchase to those under 18 is quite acceptable? That's because they are minors.


----------



## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> Something about this doesn't seem right.


Or true.


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Ummm, did you notice that prohibiting gun purchase to those under 18 is quite acceptable? That's because they are minors.


Certain items like guns, liquor and tobacco are specifically mentioned in state laws that they are not able to be purchased by minors.

Many states do not specifically mention prohibtion of unaccompanird minors and ride share.


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Age discrimination is not just about old people.
> 
> https://www.opb.org/news/article/dicks-sporting-goods-settles-lawsuit-gun-sale-age-restrictions/
> https://pix11.com/2015/02/19/no-kids-allowed-moms-with-kids-expose-discrimination-from-businesses/
> It depends on the wording of the law. Your incorrect assumption is a common one, based on the wording of federal employment law. The wording in Nevada law is much broader than federal employment law.


Not allowing a kid into a restaurant with his parents is a totally different situation. 
There is some discrimination there.

Not allowing a 13 year old girl into a bar by himself or into a car with a strange man is not discrimination. 
Or do they allow 13 old to enter bars and buy alcohol in your state?


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

They probably even encourage 16 year old kids to get married there!


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Tnasty said:


> They probably even encourage 16 year old kids to get married there!


I hear its 14 in Arkansas, 13 if the dad signs off!


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Let's wait for that gingivitis guy to chime in about his family life!


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

911 Guy said:


> Something doesn't smell right. Please give more details. Or are you "Smolleting us"? I really hope I'm the first....


i think he's a troll. since when does Uber call drivers telling them to immediately go to the hub? I smell a bs story here.


----------



## Umut (Nov 20, 2018)

I did not have any conversation with unaccompanied teenager passengers, which I never do. They have reported me for taking pics of their ID. UberHUB manager told me I violated Uber TOS, for that reason they deactivated me for good. I wish I would never ask anyone’s age


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> So you asked to see ID to make sure they were 18, and they showed it to you, proving that they were old enough, and then you gave them the scheduled ride? Did you explain to them why you were asking, i.e., that you cannot, according to Uber's official policy, transport unaccompanied minors?
> 
> Did you explain to the person at the UberHub what happened -- that you were simply enforcing their policy? Did they explain to you why they were deactivating you?
> 
> Something about this doesn't seem right.


Agreed


LyftNewbie10 said:


> Sorry to hear about that. :frown: You're damned if you ask, you're damned if you don't ask and transport an unaccompanied minor.
> 
> *It's up to Uber and Lyft to screen out minors!!* That should happen during the application process.


I've had a few. My first 1* ever was from a 16 year old that I told can't ride alone, near the destination - he told me his age in conversation.

Problem is, as was the case with him, the rides are booked by their parents. Uber has the age and weapon restrictions, are we supposed to ID and search every single pax? These are policies that cannot be enforced.



Solid 5 said:


> I love how posters here weave great stories about how they were deactivated from the rideshare platforms, yet show no other evidence other then a blanket "I wuz robbed" statement.


Absolutely. Video or it is BS, in my opinion. I usually give people the benefit of doubt but some stories.. Eh



Tnasty said:


> It sucks these companies don't do their jobs, I get a lot of minors.


It's because they were booked by a third party. We have to upload a photo to prove our identity, they should as well.



Uberfunitis said:


> Did I get in your vehicle and ask for your ID?


Bro, are you just trolling on here? You really seem to dislike ride share and drivers. What's your rating? If you hate it so much, take a taxi. Better yet, drive for a month or so and get back to us.


----------



## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

Umut said:


> I did not have any conversation with unaccompanied teenager passengers, which I never do. They have reported me for taking pics of their ID. UberHUB manager told me I violated Uber TOS, for that reason they deactivated me for good. I wish I would never ask anyone's age


Did you take pics of their ID ?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> You really seem to dislike ride share and drivers. What's your rating? If you hate it so much, take a taxi. Better yet, drive for a month or so and get back to us.


I have a high rating both as a passenger and as a driver. I actually love ride share and drivers.... I hate people who run scams.


----------



## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

I think you left out the part that you were peeing in a bottle when you asked for the ID..


----------



## LyftNewbie10 (Apr 19, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> I've had a few. My first 1* ever was from a 16 year old that I told can't ride alone, near the destination - he told me his age in conversation.
> 
> Problem is, as was the case with him, the rides are booked by their parents. Uber has the age and weapon restrictions, 1. are we supposed to ID and search every single pax? 2.These are policies that cannot be enforced.


*1. *No way and* 2.* I agree.

Uber and Lyft need to ID people when they apply for their rider accounts (!)


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Umut said:


> I did not have any conversation with unaccompanied teenager passengers, which I never do. They have reported me for taking pics of their ID. UberHUB manager told me I violated Uber TOS, for that reason they deactivated me for good. I wish I would never ask anyone's age


So, it wasn't for "asking for ID" it was for taking a photo of the ID.

Yep, you are gone.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> Not allowing a kid into a restaurant with his parents is a totally different situation.
> There is some discrimination there.
> 
> Not allowing a 13 year old girl into a bar by himself or into a car with a strange man is not discrimination.
> Or do they allow 13 old to enter bars and buy alcohol in your state?


In Allegheny County PA, bar/restaurants that allow smoking are required to ban minors.



Uberfunitis said:


> I have a high rating both as a passenger and as a driver. I actually love ride share and drivers.... I hate people who run scams.


That's an oxymoronic, internally inconsistent point of view.

Almost everyone is running a scam, Uber certainly is, and ditto with most passengers and most partners to one degree or another. Pax are scamming for free rides, partners and Uber are scamming to increase their income and reduce their expenses by any trick they can think of.


----------



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Bars and liquor stores scan ID's.

Is it really in the TOS not to properly check ID's?

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bar-club-stats-id-scanner/id523018379?mt=8

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.barclubstats2&hl=en_US


----------



## Panjnyguy (Aug 28, 2018)

I called uber one time they said age is at uR own discretion. i never ask for ID ever. more tha half of the pax are younger than 18. i don't care.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

What does the terms of service say?


----------



## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

I'm not very good at determining age, and I'm not about to card anyone.


----------



## here2der (Jul 2, 2018)

Umut said:


> They have reported me for taking pics of their ID. UberHUB manager told me I violated Uber TOS, for that reason they deactivated me for good.


Could've saved 6 pages of discussion here -- just by saying what actually happened from the beginning. Photographing personal ID obviously oversteps privacy boundaries and presents obvious potential security threats. All you had to do was ask to see ID, and then look at its DOB.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> That's an oxymoronic, internally inconsistent point of view.
> 
> Almost everyone is running a scam, Uber certainly is, and ditto with most passengers and most partners to one degree or another. Pax are scamming for free rides, partners and Uber are scamming to increase their income and reduce their expenses by any trick they can think of.


Uber and Lyft are not running a scam.... they offer a set rate per mile and per minute to drivers, and they tell the passenger what they will be charged before ever agreeing to the ride.

over 95% of both passengers and drivers are running no scams at all and just using the service. There is a small percentage of both drivers and passengers who run scams and they both give everyone a bad name.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

welikecamping said:


> I'm not very good at determining age, and I'm not about to card anyone.


R Kelly's defense??????



mikes424 said:


> Certain items like guns, liquor and tobacco are specifically mentioned in state laws that they are not able to be purchased by minors.
> 
> Many states do not specifically mention prohibtion of unaccompanird minors and ride share.


The reason it's not specifically mentioned is that they are minors.

Ever wonder why, when a parent grounds a child, they are never charged with a crime?

Think about it.

These arguments are getting boring. Minors do not have equal rights to an adult.


----------



## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

lol, no. I just do the best I can. If they clearly look under 18, I will call it.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Umut said:


> They have reported me for taking pics of their ID.


6 pages deep and we learn more details


----------



## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> 6 pages deep and we learn more details


Haha no wonder they got upset.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

welikecamping said:


> I'm not very good at determining age, and I'm not about to card anyone.


Then don't do it.

Just be aware that if anything goes wrong -- if there's an accident and the underage rider gets injured, or if the underage rider decides to make false accusations against you -- you're going to be on the hook all on your lonesome. Uber is going to immediately and completely distance themselves from you; "we explicitly told you not to do that".



Umut said:


> They have reported me for taking pics of their ID.


Why in the fark would you do that? As most of us suspected right from the start, it turns out there's more to the story. I'm shocked.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> Then don't do it.
> 
> Just be aware that if anything goes wrong -- if there's an accident and the underage rider gets injured, or if the underage rider decides to make false accusations against you -- you're going to be on the hook all on your lonesome. Uber is going to immediately and completely distance themselves from you; "we explicitly told you not to do that".
> 
> ...


Uber abandoned their partner Jason Dalton up in Kalamazoo when he got into a jackpot last year. In fact, he got deactivated for life plus 20 years for his rampage, the corporation didn't stand up for Mr. Dalton at all.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Uber abandoned their partner Jason Dalton up in Kalamazoo when he got into a jackpot last year. In fact, he got deactivated for life plus 20 years for his rampage, the corporation didn't stand up for Mr. Dalton at all.


I'm as outraged by this as you are. I think he should be thanked for revealing to the public a serious bug in the Uber app -- he's really a hero for performing a public service, if you will. The poor man realized that it was the Uber app which told him to kill those people. I have to believe that most of us have often felt like killing riders when we're out driving, and only now do I realize that it's because the Uber app has been sending out subliminal messages.


----------



## Cklw (Mar 18, 2017)

Umut said:


> I did not have any conversation with unaccompanied teenager passengers, which I never do. They have reported me for taking pics of their ID. UberHUB manager told me I violated Uber TOS, for that reason they deactivated me for good. I wish I would never ask anyone's age


Why are you taking pics of their id? All you need is to see it to verify age. Taking a pic just makes you a creeper.0


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Absolutely. Video or it is BS, in my opinion. I usually give people the benefit of doubt but some stories.. Eh


I seriously doubt he's lying, what would he have to gain here?

he obviously wasn't telling the whole story, intentionally or just didn't realize the importance I don't know but suspect the later but I doubt he is lying.


----------



## Homie G (Oct 19, 2017)

After you cancel a trip one one the reasons you can chose is "unaccompanied minor" at least in my market.

You have every right to ask for an I.D. if you feel you may be transporting underage children alone.

A little hard to buy the OP's story.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Uber and Lyft are not running a scam....


well that's debatable.

Now, back to the showing of IDs.

As a driver how do you suggest the situation should be handled by drivers?

If Bobby who is 22 but has boyish looks wants to purchase some alcohol, do you feel the same way about him having to show an ID?


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Not allowing a kid into a restaurant with his parents is a totally different situation.
> There is some discrimination there.
> 
> Not allowing a 13 year old girl into a bar by himself or into a car with a strange man is not discrimination.
> Or do they allow 13 old to enter bars and buy alcohol in your state?


There are different laws for different circumstances, that are worded differently. When you use a different combination of words in a law, that changes the effects of the law.

It was previously stated that age discrimination laws are only about OLD people. That is true SOMETIMES.

But I have clearly provided examples of where age discrimination laws have been used to prohibit discrimination against young people in actual effect, not only in wording. Nevada's laws that regulate transportation network companies use similar wording to those that prevent discrimination against minors, not similar wording to those that prohibit discrimination only against old people.


----------



## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

We’re the teenagers girls and did they accuse you of inappropriate behavior ? Not accusing you, people make up crazy vindictive stuff these days. 

Are you waitlisted or deactivated ?


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> There are different laws for different circumstances, that are worded differently. When you use a different combination of words in a law, that changes the effects of the law.
> 
> It was previously stated that age discrimination laws are only about OLD people. That is true SOMETIMES.
> 
> But I have clearly provided examples of where age discrimination laws have been used to prohibit discrimination against young people in actual effect, not only in wording. Nevada's laws that regulate transportation network companies use similar wording to those that prevent discrimination against minors, not similar wording to those that prohibit discrimination only against old people.


The thing is that a minor doesn't have the same rights as an adult. 
Can a 14 year old vote in Nevada?
Why not? That's discrimination.

Minors have the rights given to them by their parents. 
If the parent didn't authorize them to get in an Uber, Nevada law goes out the window.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Here in Pittsburgh, there are bars and cocktail lounges that don't admit patrons who are younger than 25 or even 30- even though the state law is 21.

If you don't want young people in your vehicle, it isn't a problem with the government- although Uber might not like it.


----------



## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Just tell Uber one of them said they were over 21 and claimed they did not have their ID and wanted you to buy alcohol, so you asked the friend if he had ID, because you were not buying it for them.


----------



## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.


That's not confusing at all, actually. Since its against the law to transport minors, that TOS is about the OPPOSITE, seeing someone 90+ and saying nope.


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

That's just it. Except for a very few states like California, there are no laws on the books prohibiting transportation of minors.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

mikes424 said:


> That's just it. Except for a very few states like California, there are no laws on the books prohibiting transportation of minors.


Well do this since you want to argue this point over and over and over again........

Call you States Attorney General, office of civil rights. Report Uber and Lyft about this policy both have and how it violates State Law.

When they tell that you are wrong, immediately contact your local chapter of the ACLU and see if they will help you.

I'm thinking neither will. But who knows?


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Well do this since you want to argue this point over and over and over again........
> 
> Call you States Attorney General, office of civil rights. Report Uber and Lyft about this policy both have and how it violates State Law.
> 
> ...


I did contact the Illinois States Attorney a few weeks ago. Still waiting for a reply. Will post it if or when I get one.


----------



## David M Haub (Jun 22, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> How did the "asking for ID" conversation go? Care to elaborate?
> 
> Why did you ask for ID? I take kids to school and other places all the time.


It's against the law in California! Uber will not cover you for insurance nor will your personal insurance.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

David M Haub said:


> It's against the law in California! Uber will not cover you for insurance nor will your personal insurance.


Perhaps in CA you are correct but not everywhere in the US. Where do you get that Uber insurance will not cover liability on a paid trip?


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

MrMikeNC said:


> Since its against the law to transport minors


only it's not against the law, in most states.


----------



## Umut (Nov 20, 2018)

I always use an app called 21+ for age verification. It scans driver license for age purposes without storing any data. No conversation during the ride. Passengers reported me for taking their pic of their ID which I did not do it. I guess they filed for restraining order


----------



## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> only it's not against the law, in most states.


[citation needed]

I keep hearing this yet no one posts a link of said state. Funny that. I did find this, so I guess from inference some of those states are the ones you mention? But then again something else must be going on since California is one of those states.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

MrMikeNC said:


> [citation needed]
> 
> I keep hearing this yet no one posts a link of said state. Funny that. I did find this, so I guess from inference some of those states are the ones you mention? But then again something else must be going on since California is one of those states.


I'm in Florida. it is not illegal for me to take a minor. I cannot cite a law that does not exist.


----------



## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

Uber's actions as reported in the original post are inconsistent with its own advice in the second paragraph below:










(https://help.uber.com/partners/arti...-?nodeId=43b84de6-758b-489e-b088-7ee69c749ccd)


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Umut said:


> I guess they filed for restraining order


the plot thickens

on what grounds ?

tell the whole story dude


----------



## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> I'm in Florida. it is not illegal for me to take a minor. I cannot cite a law that does not exist.


Did I ask you to post a link to a law? Read what I said again and slowly...

But trying to be funny you still inadvertently answered my question so thanks for that. Seems it would be the first thing you'd mention but hey however it gets answered. So that's 49 states with Florida the holdover, I'm guessing MA from the link so that's 48...



Umut said:


> I always use an app called 21+ for age verification. It scans driver license for age purposes without storing any data. No conversation during the ride. Passengers reported me for taking their pic of their ID which I did not do it. I guess they filed for restraining order


Uber's own rules allow you to ASK for ID, that's it. You went above and beyond that with that QC Reader. No it wasn't taking a pic (taking you at your word on that one) but they had no way of knowing that, they just know you pulled out your phone and did something with it in regards to their ID. You know you just scanned it, they assumed you took a pic and nailed you for it. Had you just asked, glanced at it, and said get in (or sorry and took off) nothing would have happened.

Live and learn I guess. Now, Lyft's policy prohibit's unaccompanied minors yet doesn't mention anything about asking for ID, so you may just have to eyeball them and go with your judgment. That is, if you're with Lyft or want to get with Lyft.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> I'm in Florida. it is not illegal for me to take a minor. I cannot cite a law that does not exist.


True. However the question actually is not if taking a minor is legal or not, but if there is a statute that would make a policy of not taking minors illegal.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> True. However the question actually is not if taking a minor is legal or not, but if there is a statute that would make a policy of not taking minors illegal.


only of the minor is a service minor.



MrMikeNC said:


> Did I ask you to post a link to a law?


you asked for "a link to said state". from your post "a link to said state" I took to mean the law banning minors. I do not know of any state that has legislation preventing minors from using rideshare however I'd be surprised if there weren't a few, that's why I said most states.

I know I may be a bit slow, Florida doesnt have the best education system but your post is hardly clear.



MrMikeNC said:


> I keep hearing this yet no one posts a link of said state.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

911 Guy said:


> Something doesn't smell right. Please give more details. Or are you "Smolleting us"?


Yeah, this story smolls fishy to me.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> well that's debatable.
> 
> Now, back to the showing of IDs.
> 
> ...


There are specific laws about alcohol but I have yet to find any such laws for VA or DC. More on point there is no ID check to take other public transportation options like the metro or metro bus, Hell they even have discounts for students who take the public bus. So comparing alcohol sales to a form of public transportation is not even looking at the same thing I believe.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> There are specific laws about alcohol but I have yet to find any such laws for VA or DC. More on point there is no ID check to take other public transportation options like the metro or metro bus, Hell they even have discounts for students who take the public bus. So comparing alcohol sales to a form of public transportation is not even looking at the same thing I believe.


I wasnt comparing, I asked you a simple question. how you would feel having to show an Id for alcohol purchase.


----------



## PorkRollUberAndCheese (Mar 13, 2015)

MrMikeNC said:


> [citation needed]
> 
> I keep hearing this yet no one posts a link of said state. Funny that. I did find this, so I guess from inference some of those states are the ones you mention? But then again something else must be going on since California is one of those states.


New Jersey's rideshare law has no specific mention of age. In fact, it says we cannot discriminate based on age.



David M Haub said:


> It's against the law in California! Uber will not cover you for insurance nor will your personal insurance.


Against the law in CA, yes. But that is not nationwide.

But this whole thing about insurance not covering you just sounds like an oft-repeated mistruth.


----------



## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> only of the minor is a service minor.
> 
> 
> you asked for "a link to said state". from your post "a link to said state" I took to mean the law banning minors.


OR, as would have been in your case, this. No one ever says which states for some bizarre reason which one would think would help bolster their case. But alrighty then, since it seems to be happening now.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


I know! I really hate it when a 8 yr old kid is trying to play craps and can't even reach the table to make a bet. Don't even get me started on the drunk 14 year old kids at the bars...


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> I wasnt comparing, I asked you a simple question. how you would feel having to show an Id for alcohol purchase.


A lot less apprehensive! The clerk selling me alcohol has not just picked me up at my home, with enough bags for clothes for a month for four, and taken me to the airport. I don't like to advertise to someone that my home has a high chance of being empty for a extended period of time.


----------



## Driver_Down (Dec 11, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I am not all that concerned how I look in your or others eyes, it is about safety and principle I likely did not have you pick me up or drop me off at my actual address for a reason.


You're a weirdo. Can tell already. If you are a male on top this x 5

What makes you think you are so special someone would care enough to stalk you? We pick up 20-30 people a day friggin a sometimes by the end of the night if forgot 80% of my paxs names or faces.



Uberfunitis said:


> You are legally allowed to pick them up assuming they are actually 18 even under depending on your jurisdiction. TOS does not equal the law. At the end of the day this is a problem that Uber / Lyft will have to find a way to solve. You have two competing interests one privacy and the other TOS / creeping on passengers.


The one thing I agree with you on. But my earlier posts moments ago prior to seeing this still do not change the fact that you are so concerned. I look at the ID for like 2 seconds max. Usually don't even fully bother since if you have an ID you are 18.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Driver_Down said:


> I look at the ID for like 2 seconds max. Usually don't even fully bother since if you have an ID you are 18.


Most places allow people to get a drivers license at 16 some even earlier. I hope that you don't depend on your theory there when it comes to dates.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> A lot less apprehensive! The clerk selling me alcohol has not just picked me up at my home, with enough bags for clothes for a month for four, and taken me to the airport. I don't like to advertise to someone that my home has a high chance of being empty for a extended period of time.


And what does this have to do with checking the ID of someone you suspect as a minor? Not many minors have a wife and 2 kids, and go on a month long vacation. Do they? Is this a trend that I'm not aware of.

What am I missing here?



Uberfunitis said:


> Most places allow people to get a drivers license at 16 some even earlier. I hope that you don't depend on your theory there when it comes to dates.


And all have the owners date of birth on them. Your point was? Or did you actually have one?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> And what does this have to do with checking the ID of someone you suspect as a minor? Not many minors have a wife and 2 kids, and go on a month long vacation. Do they? Is this a trend that I'm not aware of.
> 
> What am I missing here?
> 
> ...


I never said anything about a wife and kids I simply said I packed enough for four for a month.....

My point that you missed is that he said that he did not even look at the ID because if they have one they are 18.


----------



## boulder_lady (Jan 14, 2018)

Two notes- never ASK for an ID (and certainly don’t take a pic of it or insert their ID into anything!). Simply say “Sorry Buddy, I can’t take you unless you are 18+”... if they are 18 they hand over their ID... if not, they argue so you just cancel. 

This thread kind of went down a rabbit hole of if it is legal to drive minors around vs. rideshare TOS. Simply stated, if we provide a service outside of the scope of the TOSs, then Uber/Lyft (and their insurance) have no legal obligation to cover that ride. We are breaking their clearly stated rules, so any incident would not be covered by them. Additionally, private insurance won’t cover rideshare activity, especially unauthorized rideshare activity. You are putting your car/house/savings etc at risk for a few bucks... usually for a short ride that would pay the same as a cancelation fee anyway... so what is the point? And anyone thinking that Uber/Lyft would step up and ‘do the right thing’ in the event of an accident that they don’t HAVE to cover is delusional. 

It does not matter if it is ‘legal’ for you to have underage passengers wherever you live... it is all about TOS.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I never said anything about a wife and kids I simply said I packed enough for four for a month.....
> 
> My point that you missed is that he said that he did not even look at the ID because if they have one they are 18.


Noted. If four people that appear to be unaccompanied minors appear with enough suitcases to last a month and refuse to show ID?

Put that sucker in drive and floor the damn thing. Might be nothing, but might be runaways or human trafficking.

Again, what is your point?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

boulder_lady said:


> then Uber/Lyft (and their insurance) have no legal obligation to cover that ride. We are breaking their clearly stated rules, so any incident would not be covered by them. Additionally, private insurance won't cover rideshare activity, especially unauthorized rideshare activity. You are putting your car/house/savings etc at risk for a few bucks... usually for a short ride that would pay the same as a cancelation fee anyway... so what is the point? And anyone thinking that Uber/Lyft would step up and 'do the right thing' in the event of an accident that they don't HAVE to cover is delusional.


People say this all the time, but that does not make it true in any way. Nobody has ever provided anything to indicate that Uber/Lyft will not provide liability insurance to cover their passenger regardless of the circumstance. There are multiple accidents everyday if Uber has left a passenger high and dry it would be all over the news.



BigRedDriver said:


> Noted. If four people that appear to be unaccompanied minors appear with enough suitcases to last a month and refuse to show ID?
> 
> Put that sucker in drive and floor the damn thing. Might be nothing, but might be runaways or human trafficking.
> 
> Again, what is your point?


I will not show you my ID simple as that.... that is my point. If you don't want to take me fine move along I will get the next driver to take me and I will not pay a cancelation fee for that either.


----------



## boulder_lady (Jan 14, 2018)

Sooo ... because you have not heard of Uber/Lyft (or even insurance companies) denying responsibility of coverage for someone doing something that is specifically prohibited, you assume that there is no personal risk? I guess there is no debating with someone taking that position.


----------



## Driver_Down (Dec 11, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Most places allow people to get a drivers license at 16 some even earlier. I hope that you don't depend on your theory there when it comes to dates.


Lol I got my MOTO license at 16 yes I know. I said sometimes I won't fully check since it is abit awkward and I don't want to creepy staring at it and scrutinizing it. if they have the balls to show me knowing I was going to check them hats off to them I deserved it. It's either yes we're 18 or no I'm not. Okay can I see id please? Oh uh I left it at home. Ok well sorry if I see no id I can't give the ride going to have to cancel.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

boulder_lady said:


> Sooo ... because you have not heard of Uber/Lyft (or even insurance companies) denying responsibility of coverage for someone doing something that is specifically prohibited, you assume that there is no personal risk? I guess there is no debating with someone taking that position.


What is there to debate? You make a claim that their insurance will not cover. That is a simple statement that does not need debate and is easily provable just link to where Uber or Lyft have indicated that or actually ever done what you suggest.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

boulder_lady said:


> Sooo ... because you have not heard of Uber/Lyft (or even insurance companies) denying responsibility of coverage for someone doing something that is specifically prohibited, you assume that there is no personal risk? I guess there is no debating with someone taking that position.


It's all about risk vs reward. To some a $5 fare is worth the risk of deactivation and serious financial ruin.

It's not worth it to me and anyone else with a lick of sense.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Driver_Down said:


> Lol I got my MOTO license at 16 yes I know. I said sometimes I won't fully check since it is abit awkward and I don't want to creepy staring at it and scrutinizing it. if they have the balls to show me knowing I was going to check them hats off to them I deserved it. It's either yes we're 18 or no I'm not. Okay can I see id please? Oh uh I left it at home. Ok well sorry if I see no id I can't give the ride going to have to cancel.


I usually just ask them if they are 18 or over and have my dash cam footage to show if asked. If they say yes and it is not obvious to me than I take them at their word and carry on and drive them where they have indicated they want to go. I won't show ID and I don't ask to see ID. As long as they can say who the account holder is and they say they are 18 I drive but that's just me.


----------



## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

I didn't read the thread.. too many pages.

But according to Uber:

*Requests from underage riders *

A rider must be at least 18 years of age to have an Uber account and request rides. Anyone under 18 must be accompanied by someone 18 years of age or older on any ride.

As a driver-partner in a city that doesn't allow minors to ride, you should decline the ride request if you believe the person requesting the ride is under 18. When picking up riders, if you feel they are underage, you may request they provide a driver's license or ID card for confirmation. If a rider is underage, please do not start the trip or allow them to ride.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I usually just ask them if they are 18 or over and have my dash cam footage to show if asked. If they say yes and it is not obvious to me than I take them at their word and carry on and drive them where they have indicated they want to go. I won't show ID and I don't ask to see ID. As long as they can say who the account holder is and they say they are 18 I drive but that's just me.


Taking a teen at it's word is a dangerous game. Teens are notorious NOT telling the truth. You could be picking up a 14 year old (yes some look 18-20), that is running away from home. But you don't care. $5 is enough for you to look the other way.

And the recording your making of the teen? Won't do you any good because, once again, teens can't be trusted. And anyone with any sense knows this. You'd look the fool trying to use it as justification. Juries know better


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Taking a teen at it's word is a dangerous game. Teens are notorious NOT telling the truth. You could be picking up a 14 year old (yes some look 18-20), that is running away from home. But you don't care. $5 is enough for you to look the other way.
> 
> And the recording your making of the teen? Won't do you any good because, once again, teens can't be trusted. And anyone with any sense knows this. You'd look the fool trying to use it as justification. Juries know better


Jury... why would there be a jury? I don't live in CA where it is actually illegal. TOS is not the law.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Jury... why would there be a jury? I don't live in CA where it is actually illegal. TOS is not the law.


Something happens to the little darlin during the ride, or they accuse you of something, or even after the ride, always consider worse case.

And for $5?

Nowhere near the potential trouble.

But do what you want. No amount of argument will stop bad behavior when $5 must be that important.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Something happens to the little darlin during the ride, or they accuse you of something, or even after the ride, always consider worse case.
> 
> And for $5?
> 
> ...


I have a dash cam that can show exactly what I did do or did not do.

If you want to always consider the worse case than doing ride share at all does not make sense for $5.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I have a dash cam that can show exactly what I did do or did not do.
> 
> If you want to always consider the worse case than doing ride share at all does not make sense for $5.


Especially with KIDS!


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Especially with KIDS!


Drunks in my vehicle pose a bigger risk to me honestly. I try to avoid both but I am not bothered like I said I document everything and am not worried about it.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

MrMikeNC said:


> OR, as would have been in your case, this. No one ever says which states for some bizarre reason which one would think would help bolster their case. But alrighty then, since it seems to be happening now.


Most people claim picking up minors: 
a) Is illeagal, b) Voids the insurance, or c) is both, illegal and voids the insurance.

I maintain that it is not illeagal, in most states, nor does it void the insurance.

Your vague comments asking for a link to said state to bolster my case is silly. I ask again, how can I post a link to something THAT DOESN'T EXIST?

Maybe instead of trying to embarrass me by telling me to slowly re-read your post, you could be more clear and use less pronouns, and better overall sentence structure to convey your thoughts and questions.

The statement of mine you quoted was, "only it's not against the law, in most states."

Then you ask for a link to said state .

a link to what? My post makes two separate statements. It is NOT illeagal to pick up minors in most states. In some states it IS illeagal to pick up minors.

The logical conclusion for me is that you want to know where it is NOT illeagal since this is the minority opinion. As I stated earlier, I can not post a link to something that doesn't exist.

the example link you provided was just as confusing as the rest of your post. A link to a list of all 50 states would be just as helpful.



Uberfunitis said:


> A lot less apprehensive! The clerk selling me alcohol has not just picked me up at my home, with enough bags for clothes for a month for four, and taken me to the airport. I don't like to advertise to someone that my home has a high chance of being empty for a extended period of time.


Going back your original argument and applying some common sense, this is just silly. The likelyhood of this situation happening is so small it isnt even worth measuring. We are talking the avearge mall rat kid 16-20 years old requesting a ride to go from the movie theater to Denny's or from Sally's house to Jenny's house. Not the one in 15 million offshoot.

You just like argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> The thing is that a minor doesn't have the same rights as an adult.
> Can a 14 year old vote in Nevada?
> Why not? That's discrimination.


Why not? Because there is no equivalently worded law. The constitution specifically states 18 years of older to vote, not a blanket restriction on age discrimination.



US Constitution said:


> The right of citizens of the United States, who are *eighteen years of age or older*, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.


Earlier versions of the constitution specified 21 years of age.



Cableguynoe said:


> Minors have the rights given to them by their parents.


Incorrect. This isn't ancient Rome. Although there are advocates of post-birth abortion, abortions are only legal if at least part of the head of the baby is still in the womb.

Perhaps an adult should have the right to abort a child up to the age of 18, but in our system here in Nevada, minors have a lot of rights, including the right against discrimination when it comes to hailing a taxi cab or an Uber driver.



> If the parent didn't authorize them to get in an Uber, Nevada law goes out the window.


I know a lot of people desperately want to justify denying rides to minors, but Nevada law doesn't go out the window when a TNC driver gets banned for life for driving for hire for violating the discrimination code.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Driver_Down said:


> Usually don't even fully bother since if you have an ID you are 18.


this is just patently untrue.



boulder_lady said:


> Simply stated, if we provide a service outside of the scope of the TOSs, then Uber/Lyft (and their insurance) have no legal obligation to cover that ride.


Not true. The commercial policy cover the ride regardless. there are no conditions put on the guarantee of coverage. If I pile 8 people in my car, I still have coverage, even of the 8 people are minors. if I'm drunk, still covered. If my roommate steals my phone, access my account and accepts a ride from 8 minors. still covered. If I lose my phone and an unlicensed drunk finds it then account my account and does a ride, still covered.

the policy is in place to guarantee the safety of the passenger/user.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> this is just patently untrue.
> 
> Not true. The commercial policy cover the ride regardless. there are no conditions put on the guarantee of coverage. If I pile 8 people in my car, I still have coverage, even of the 8 people are minors. if I'm drunk, still covered. If my roommate steals my phone, access my account and accepts a ride from 8 minors. still covered. If I lose my phone and an unlicensed drunk finds it then account my account and does a ride, still covered.
> 
> the policy is in place to guarantee the safety of the passenger/user.


Exactly! If anything, the passengers will be the most protected in any scenario. The driver may get tossed to the wayside but not the pax.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I know a lot of people desperately want to justify denying rides to minors, but Nevada law doesn't go out the window when a TNC driver gets banned for life for driving for hire for violating the discrimination code


So is uber breaking the law by denying those under 18 from having an account?


----------



## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

Sure are a lot of gamblers driving rideshare.

This is such a simple issue, with simple solutions.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> So is uber breaking the law by denying those under 18 from having an account?


Would it be the first time Uber broke the law, either intentionally or unintentionally?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Why not? Because there is no equivalently worded law. The constitution specifically states 18 years of older to vote, not a blanket restriction on age discrimination.
> 
> Earlier versions of the constitution specified 21 years of age.
> 
> ...


Please supply the link to the claim that Nevada State law prohibits rideshare drivers from denying unaccompanied minors rides.

You would think the ACLU or the Nevada States Attorney's office would have Uber / Lyft in front of a Judge by now if that were the case.


----------



## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

It is easy for the rider! Select a date of age in the sign up process that is +18 on the app then they easily can get anywhere with rideshare. Who takes the responsibility when it all can go wrong? Not company. Only the driver.


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Crosbyandstarsky said:


> We have had numerous warnings by email from uber about this.


Not me. But I get constant warnings about service animals. Nice priorities Uber/Lyft!


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Please supply the link to the claim that Nevada State law prohibits rideshare drivers from denying unaccompanied minors rides.
> 
> You would think the ACLU or the Nevada States Attorney's office would have Uber / Lyft in front of a Judge by now if that were the case.


https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-706A.html#NRS706ASec190


> NRS 706A.190  Adoption of policy prohibiting discrimination; prohibition against discrimination; accommodations for passenger who requires wheelchair-accessible vehicle.
> 
> 1.  A transportation network company shall adopt a policy which prohibits discrimination against a passenger or potential passenger on account of national origin, religion, age, disability, sex, race, color, sexual orientation or gender identity or expression.
> 
> ...





Boca Ratman said:


> So is uber breaking the law by denying those under 18 from having an account?


Uber most certainly is... at least according to the written standards from Uber for qualifying for an account. On the other hand, has a minor ever been denied having an account in Nevada? It seems like plenty of minors have accounts despite Uber's written policy against it.


----------



## Slim Pete (Nov 21, 2014)

Umut said:


> ...District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.....


You never were their partner to begin with. You were just their *****... And they treated you just like one.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.
> View attachment 299604


Minors are NEVER included in stuff like that. It's part of them being minors.

Ask any attorney about that, and they'll tell you the same.



BigRedDriver said:


> Ummm, did you notice that prohibiting gun purchase to those under 18 is quite acceptable? That's because they are minors.


Also, it's not even about the kids' rights, but the parents.

Try letting your 15-year old rent an apartment without the adult being on the lease (and therefore fully responsible) AND living there with them.



Trafficat said:


> https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-706A.html#NRS706ASec190
> 
> 
> Uber most certainly is... at least according to the written standards from Uber for qualifying for an account. On the other hand, has a minor ever been denied having an account in Nevada? It seems like plenty of minors have accounts despite Uber's written policy against it.


Minors are not considered full "people" under the law. They can't legally enter into contracts. Technically, they have very restricted civil rights at all unless either their parents/guardians decide to defend them, or they turn 18 and fight for the violations when they were kids within the statute of limitations for such things.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Agree completely with SuzeCB. No one under 18 (some states are different) can claim age discrimination. It is stupid for anyone to suggest otherwise.


----------



## BuckleUp (Jan 18, 2018)

Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


Register as private booking provider, setup a website and fc page, run ads on facebook and bing/yahoo with geotargetting (location and keywords) and you'll be having private clients in no time. Focus on airport transfers and long haul. If urgent to build a client base, undercut uber rates by 10% for airport, you'll have dozens on rides per week. Just tell them its promo rates for new customers. once you wow them with service, you're good to go. Oh ye, and get 2 inside facing good quality cameras with sound. Next time someone makes a false allegation against you, file criminal charges and sue for civil damages.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> Minors are NEVER included in stuff like that. It's part of them being minors.
> 
> Ask any attorney about that, and they'll tell you the same.
> 
> ...


If you take the link on face value. Demanding infant car seats would also be age discrimination.

Problem is, it isn't.

Good post Suze.


----------



## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

Do you have a dash Cam....bet not!!!


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

I don't think that it is age discrimination.... though it very well could be in the case of an emancipated minor.

I just have a problem when people pull stuff from their behind to try and scare people with absolutely nothing to back up what they are asserting as fact.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

SatMan said:


> Do you have a dash Cam....bet not!!!


To show I violated the TOS? What good would that do?

Sure, it might help if a rider made an false claim of some sort of assault, whether verbal or physical, but in the case of an accident, or a runaway that you assisted, the camera could actually work against you. A decent personal injury attorney would love it.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> To show I violated the TOS? What good would that do?
> 
> Sure, it might help if a rider made an false claim of some sort of assault, whether verbal or physical, but in the case of an accident, or a runaway that you assisted, the camera could actually work against you. A decent personal injury attorney would love it.


Again TOS is not the law so yes it may get you deactivated but that would not be your concern at that point.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Again TOS is not the law so yes it may get you deactivated but that would not be your concern at that point.


It goes to the credibility of the witness. Every been deposed? The questioning would be intense


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> It goes to the credibility of the witness. Every been deposed? The questioning would be intense


Would have no problem with that and can own every action that I did without problem.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Would have no problem with that and can own every action that I did without problem.


Attorney: Were you aware that the rider was under the age permitted in the TOS?

Me: I either answer Yes or No.

Either answer leads down a bumpy road.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Attorney: Were you aware that the rider was under the age permitted in the TOS?
> 
> Me: I either answer Yes or No.
> 
> Either answer leads down a bumpy road.


No..... easy question

Either way answer truthfully and there is no reason to be worried because again TOS is not the law unless in CA i guess but I don't live there.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> No..... easy question
> 
> Either way answer truthfully and there is no reason to be worried because again TOS is not the law unless in CA i guess but I don't live there.


You were called to ABC High School to do a pick up and didn't suspect that the rider might be under the age allowed under the TOS?

Bumpy road ahead.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> You were called to ABC High School to do a pick up and didn't suspect that the rider might be under the age allowed under the TOS?


I can answer truthfully all day long as I have absolutely nothing to hide.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I can answer truthfully all day long as I have absolutely nothing to hide.


Yes, you can answer truthfully. But if you indicate that you look the other way, willfully violating rules that you agreed to, to simply to make a few bucks, you expect that you will come out on the right side of the argument? Credibility becomes very important.

If you've never knowingly picked up an under 18, and when you've exhibited that you take adequate steps to insure you do not (not steps that satisfy your desires, but those that others would see as adequate), then you truly have nothing to hide.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Yes, you can answer truthfully. But if you indicate that you look the other way, willfully violating rules that you agreed to, to simply to make a few bucks, you expect that you will come out on the right side of the argument? Credibility becomes very important.
> 
> If you've never knowingly picked up an under 18, and when you've exhibited that you take adequate steps to insure you do not (not steps that satisfy your desires, but those that others would see as adequate), then you truly have nothing to hide.


I have nothing to hide because no law was violated.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I have nothing to hide because no law was violated.


Criminal vs. Civil are two very different things my friend.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Criminal vs. Civil are two very different things my friend.


Yes, and I have insurance that will cover the passenger just like any other passenger. Again not worried at all.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Yes, and I have insurance that will cover the passenger just like any other passenger. Again not worried at all.


I wouldn't bring that you are insured so that makes you inclined to violate the TOS during a deposition though, I think your insurance company might look at that as you using them as a scape goat. Just my opinion, you want them on your side.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> I wouldn't bring that you are insured so that makes you inclined to violate the TOS during a deposition though, I think your insurance company might look at that as you using them as a scape goat. Just my opinion, you want them on your side.


Not a scapegoat just the truth....


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Not a scapegoat just the truth....


So, just a few minutes ago you stated that you didn't know the rider was a minor, then you stated that it didn't matter if you knew or not, because you are insured?

The truth is all that matters?

Which one?

You didn't know, or you didn't care?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> So, just a few minutes ago you stated that you didn't know the rider was a minor, then you stated that it didn't matter if you knew or not, because you are insured?
> 
> The truth is all that matters?
> 
> ...


Not being deposed here. I said I did not know and even if I did know it would not matter at all.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Not being deposed here. I said I did not know and even if I did know it would not matter at all.


No, you are not being deposed. And I am not an attorney. Just someone who has set in a number of depositions.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> No, you are not being deposed. And I am not an attorney. Just someone who has set in a number of depositions.


As I have said before I ask and they answer. I am happy with that if you are not you are free to do what you want. But you will not be getting to see my ID, that much I can tell you.


----------



## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

BigRedDriver said:


> No, you are not being deposed. And I am not an attorney. Just someone who has set in a number of depositions.


OH, one of *those* people!!!!! LOL

I rest my case......


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

SatMan said:


> OH, one of *those* people!!!!! LOL
> 
> I rest my case......


One of what people?


----------



## RaleighUber440 (Jul 17, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> It applies when it comes to "giving someone a ride" ?


That's exactly what happened. The OP twisted the story. I have heard of drivers being deactivated for admitting they drove a minor. It had nothing to do with asking for ID.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

observer said:


> In California, it is illegal for drivers to pick up minors without an adult (18+).


Same in Georgia. And any claim would be denied by insurance. Unaccompanied minors is against Uber policy.

I have validated this, both, through Uber and insurance several times. According to Uber, it's the responsibility of the driver to verify the age. So this sounds bizarre, unless it occurred in a state with very different guidelines than Georgia.

When canceling rides, "unaccompanied minor" appears on the drop down menu. Believe I will clarify, once again, with Uber.



observer said:


> In California, it is illegal for drivers to pick up minors without an adult (18+).


Same in Georgia. And any claim would be denied by insurance. Unaccompanied minors is against Uber policy.

I have validated this, both, through Uber and insurance several times. According to Uber, it's the responsibility of the driver to verify the age. So this sounds bizarre, unless it occurred in state with very different guidelines than Georgia.

When canceling rides, "unaccompanied minor" appears on the drop down menu. Believe I will clarify, once again, with Uber.


LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> How did the "asking for ID" conversation go? Care to elaborate?
> 
> Why did you ask for ID? I take kids to school and other places all the time.


You're basically driving without insurance if you do this. At least in Georgia.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> Minors are not considered full "people" under the law. They can't legally enter into contracts. Technically, they have very restricted civil rights at all unless either their parents/guardians decide to defend them, or they turn 18 and fight for the violations when they were kids within the statute of limitations for such things.


It doesn't matter whether the kids can bring suit... all that matters is whether the state can revoke your TNC permit... and it can. You don't understand the power of the taxi union in Nevada. It was extremely difficult for Uber to even become legal here at all. The NTA is designed to protect the taxi industry, and they will look for any excuse to revoke a TNC permit. They spend a lot of money trying to entrap Uber drivers into giving cash rides and I highly doubt they will care about the "personhood" status of the minor. TNC driver will get his permit revoked and then will have to argue in court that age discrimination doesn't apply to minors... and based on the wording of the law, he will probably lose because the law simply says it is illegal to discriminate based on age without any qualifiers. It doesn't use the word "citizen" or any other words like that which often imply a person with legal rights.

It uses the word "passenger". The same set of laws prohibit a driver from having more "passengers" than seatbelts.



> NAC 706A.350  Lawful capacity.
> While on call, a driver shall not exceed the lawful capacity of his or her motor vehicle or transport more passengers than the number of safety belts in the vehicle. Regardless of the lawful capacity of a motor vehicle or the number of safety belts in a vehicle, a driver shall not allow more than eight occupants, including the driver, in his or her motor vehicle at any one time while providing transportation services.


Think you can argue that it was okay to have 4 adults and 1 child in an UberX because the child is not a "person"? No. The child is a passenger.

Reason has it that the word "passenger" has the same meaning in both parts of the law, and the word "passenger" definitely includes minors in the non-discrimination part of the law unless you think drivers don't need to be concerned about seat belts for minors.

Contrary to those stating "it can't possibly apply to minors", It seems to me most likely that the main purpose of an age discrimination statute is specifically to prevent discrimination against minors. I doubt discrimination against old people by public transportation has ever been a problem... No... the problem is discrimination against YOUNG people. On these boards we have a lot of drivers saying young people don't tip, young people cause problems, transporting minors is a liability, etc... no one posts "I cancel on old people" but it seems there is a very high percentage of drivers would discriminate against minors even without Uber's discriminatory policies based on the posts on these very boards.


----------



## UberServant (Mar 10, 2016)

Not buying this.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> So comparing alcohol sales to a form of public transportation is not even looking at the same thing I believe.


Nobody is talking about public transportation.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Nobody is talking about public transportation.


I am.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I am


Why? Public transportation has no relevancy to this conversation.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Same in Georgia. And any claim would be denied by insurance. Unaccompanied minors is against Uber policy.


I could find no such GA law online. Where did you find it?


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

alcohol sales have no relevance either.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> alcohol sales have no relevance either.


Sure they do, Alcohol just like Uber has a legal minimum age to use in my jurisdiction. So verifying age is needed in both cases. But you are disingenuously using public sector vs private sector comparison to attempt to make a point.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Sure they do, Alcohol just like Uber has a legal minimum age to use in my jurisdiction. So verifying age is needed in both cases. But you are disingenuously using public sector vs private sector comparison to attempt to make a point.


Each jurisdiction is different and that is part of the problem with a multinational forum.......

As soon as I accept a ping and pick someone up it is not a clear private public distinction. In DC I fall under the department of for hire vehicles. It is no longer a private vehicle really as I no longer can pick and choose who rides in my vehicle. I must follow anti discrimination laws for one thing at that point.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Each jurisdiction is different and that is part of the problem with a multinational forum.......


That's true but if the OP is in a jurisdiction that doesn't criminalize the transportation of minors he still can refuse service, he runs his own business. As long as he isn't specifically discriminating against a federally protected class he should be free to deny service to whomever he chooses without fear of deactivation from uber. Especially if he us only doing so to comply with Uber's TOS.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> That's true but if the OP is in a jurisdiction that doesn't criminalize the transportation of minors he still can refuse service, he runs his own business. As long as he isn't specifically discriminating against a federally protected class he should be free to deny service to whomever he chooses without fear of deactivation from uber. Especially if he us only doing so to comply with Uber's TOS.


Age is a federally protected class that has anti discrimination laws in place for. There are very specific laws in place that explicitly state that age not only is ok to discriminate against but you must in certain cases, alcohol is just one of those cases.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Age is a federally protected class that has anti discrimination laws in place for.


Again you are being disingenuous. Age is only federally protected if the person being discriminated against is an adult.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Again you are being disingenuous. Age is only federally protected if the person being discriminated against is an adult.


Not at all there are exceptions when discrimination is ok based on age and they are specifically codified into law.... alcohol in some jurisdictions is a prime example, driving privileges, working etc. There are specific statutory instances that allow for that discrimination but they are all codified into law.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Not at all there are exceptions when discrimination is ok based on age and they are specifically codified into law.... alcohol in some jurisdictions is a prime example, driving privileges, working etc. There are specific statutory instances that allow for that discrimination but they are all codified into law.


Wrong again. I can open a store that only sells kids toys and only allow adults into the store. If I child breaks something or does damage to something i cannot take them to court. I might go out of business for such a dumb store but couldn't be charged with discrimination.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> Wrong again. I can open a store that only sells kids toys and only allow adults into the store. If I child breaks something or does damage to something i cannot take them to court. I might go out of business for such a dumb store but couldn't be charged with discrimination.


Now we are getting completely off topic. You are talking about the ability to do such a thing and not the requirement to do such a thing.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I am not all that concerned how I look in your or others eyes, it is about safety and principle I likely did not have you pick me up or drop me off at my actual address for a reason.


Just a quick input. If you look underage you can correct the driver or get out and take a cab. Pretty simple. If your concerned about something happening that's a useless worry. According to pax like you is drivers be to stupid to remember your name let alone where you live or anything else.

After all we so stupid only job we got is drivin people like you around that can't afford a car or a house or a.... oh wait, I own the $42k car your riding in. And damn, I go home each night to the $750k home I own. And I own all that other stuff.

Seriously, 2 minutes after you get out I've forgotten about you. Sometimes I forget about you while your in the car. Damn scary to look in the mirror and see your face staring back like a stalker.

Seriously, that has happened when the pax are quiet on longer rides.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> Just a quick input. If you look underage you can correct the driver or get out and take a cab. Pretty simple. If your concerned about something happening that's a useless worry. According to pax like you is drivers be to stupid to remember your name let alone where you live or anything else.
> 
> After all we so stupid only job we got is drivin people like you around that can't afford a car or a house or a.... oh wait, I own the $42k car your riding in. And damn, I go home each night to the $750k home I own. And I own all that other stuff.
> 
> ...


I can also just get the next driver who will gladly take me where I am wanting to go without all the fuss.

I don't know where you get that only stupid poor people steal stuff and assault people. The rich can and will do stuff like that just as well.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I can also just get the next driver who will gladly take me where I am wanting to go without all the fuss.
> 
> I don't know where you get that only stupid poor people steal stuff and assault people. The rich can and will do stuff like that just as well.


You can. And when you refuse I can click underage and then call Uber (oh you can't do that as a pax) and show my outrage in a I never type manner that your only 14 and get your Uber pax account disabled until you provide uber corporate with your Id. I've done it.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> You can. And when you refuse I can click underage and then call Uber (oh you can't do that as a pax) and show my outrage in a I never type manner that your only 14 and get your Uber pax account disabled until you provide uber corporate with your Id. I've done it.


Lol I have no problem showing Uber my ID just showing the driver the ID.

How exactly do you know they got their account disabled? Because Uber told you so? I hope that you don't believe everything that Uber tells you.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I have nothing to hide because no law was violated.


Until it comes out that the pax under 18 you transported was sneaking out or running away and you've just at best contributed to the delinquency of a minor. Worst case kidnapping, attempted rape, child molestation.

Transporting minors is all bad with no good side unless you are rescuing them from sex trafficking and transporting them to the nearest police officer, police dept, fire station or hospital.



Uberfunitis said:


> Lol I have no problem showing Uber my ID just showing the driver the ID.
> 
> How exactly do you know they got their account disabled? Because Uber told you so? I hope that you don't believe everything that Uber tells you.


Roflmao. You trust Uber more than the driver. Do me a favor and go buy a car and don't get in mine ever. If you do expect a quick get the duty out because I feel like it. Seriously you come across as a self entitled brat that needs a few quick jabs to the jaw to help you see how stupid you are.

I don't transport underage because it is criminally illegal and carries way to much risk beyond the insurance issue. If you need transported then your mommy and daddy can do it. You fell from between mommy's legs let her haul you around.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> Until it comes out that the pax under 18 you transported was sneaking out or running away and you've just at best contributed to the delinquency of a minor. Worst case kidnapping, attempted rape, child molestation.
> 
> Transporting minors is all bad with no good side unless you are rescuing them from sex trafficking and transporting them to the nearest police officer, police dept, fire station or hospital.


I have a dash cam and have never intentionally transported a minor. I feel comfortable in showing law enforcement any video they ask for in such a situation.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> I feel comfortable in showing law enforcement any video they ask for in such a situation.


Very bad idea. Since you dont know all of the laws and have a habit of unintentionally transporting minors I suggest you plead the 5th and only share your videos with your attorney.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Not at all there are exceptions when discrimination is ok based on age and they are specifically codified into law.... alcohol in some jurisdictions is a prime example, driving privileges, working etc. There are specific statutory instances that allow for that discrimination but they are all codified into law.


Age discrimination, on the federal level does not apply to minors. It applies, mostly, to those over a certain age. Most notably, in employment, 40.



Uberfunitis said:


> I have a dash cam and have never intentionally transported a minor. I feel comfortable in showing law enforcement any video they ask for in such a situation.


So, when picking up at a middle school or high school, you ask for ID? Correct?


----------



## Jennyma (Jul 16, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I will gladly get another driver and pay no cancellation fee. Report to Uber that you believe that I am underage all you want I am more than happy to go to their green light hub and verify but I will not be showing my driver anything that has my address or other personally identifiable information on it.


I've asked pax how old they are and they usually tell you. The minors that is. If they say 14-16 out they go. Usually over 17 will be savvy enough to say 18. I tell them why and will take if I believe they are what they say. I've never asked for ID.

I stay away from schools and will pick no one up in khakis and a polo.



BigRedDriver said:


> Age discrimination, on the federal level does not apply to minors. It applies, mostly, to those over a certain age. Most notably, in employment, 40.
> 
> 
> So, when picking up at a middle school or high school, you ask for ID? Correct?


What fool picks up at theses schools- not worth it


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Jennyma said:


> I've asked pax how old they are and they usually tell you. The minors that is. If they say 14-16 out they go. Usually over 17 will be savvy enough to say 18. I tell them why and will take if I believe they are what they say. I've never asked for ID.
> 
> I stay away from schools and will pick no one up in khakis and a polo.
> 
> ...


Must be a lot of fools. I've denied these riders (asked for IDs and none seem to ever have one), drove away and watched. Never long before another driver picks them up and drives away.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

If I accidentally accept a ride and suspect they are under age based on the pickup location I will ask them before I drive there. Unless I have nothing else to do and want a cancellation fee.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> I don't transport underage because it is criminally illegal


lol


----------



## Jennyma (Jul 16, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Must be a lot of fools. I've denied these riders (asked for IDs and none seem to ever have one), drove away and watched. Never long before another driver picks them up and drives away.


Minors who don't drive don't have IDs. Most have school ids but they don't have their bookbags going out to the mall or movies or wherever they go. Expecting them to have an ID is nuts. Those who do rideshare don't drive so even less likely to carry any. Only if you are over 21 and want to drink would you have a non driving state id.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Jennyma said:


> Minors who don't drive don't have IDs. Most have school ids but they don't have their bookbags going out to the mall or movies or wherever they go. Expecting them to have an ID is nuts. Those who do rideshare don't drive so even less likely to carry any. Only if you are over 21 and want to drink would you have a non driving state id.


Most minors do not, thru, but by the time they are 18? Most do. No ID, pick up at school? No ride. From mall? Judgement call. I tend to go with the "better safe than sorry" method. Cancel and move on.

$5 and worth the risk.


----------



## SlyBandit (Dec 24, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I don't know the rules for your state, but in Nevada, discrimination based on age is unlawful.


As per TOS we are not allowed to transport anyone under the age of 18. It's not discrimination, it's a safety/liability thing with Uber...



Umut said:


> I picked up 2 teenagers who might be underage. I ask for their ID.
> 
> 5 mins after the ride, first I got SUSPENDED notification, then a phone call from UberHUB and wanted me to come their office ASAP. District Manager told me they want to finish their partnership with me.
> 
> I don't know what to do at this moment. I recently bought Infiniti QX 60. I wish I never asked ID


I don't know that is seriously messed up in my opinion. One of the reasons you are able to select for why you are canceling a ride is Unaccompanied minor. So how are they gonna Deactivate you when that is a Legit reason for canceling a ride??

This is from Uber's site "
*Requests from underage riders*
A rider must be at least 18 years of age to have an Uber account and request rides. Anyone under 18 must be accompanied by someone 18 years of age or older on any ride.

As a driver-partner, you should decline the ride request if you believe the person requesting the ride is under 18. When picking up riders, if you feel they are underage, you may request they provide a driver's license or ID card for confirmation. If a rider is underage, please do not start the trip or allow them to ride."

But so is this..."
Uber's mission is to connect passengers with transport, as reliable as running water, anywhere, for anyone. We do not tolerate discrimination on our platform.
*What causes deactivation? *It is unacceptable to refuse to provide services based on traits, such as a person's skin color, religion, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, sex, marital status, gender identity, age or other traits protected by relevant legislation. Discrimination will cause permanent deactivation.
We want to contribute to increasing the transport possibilities for passengers with disabilities. We expect drivers using the Uber app to comply with all relevant laws regarding the transportation of passengers with disabilities, including transportation of service animals."


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> I could find no such GA law online. Where did you find it?


Don't need to find it. All's I know, 100%, is it's against Uber Policy and insurance will not cover a claim. Period.

I don't take this kind of risk. For $4 - 5? Nope. Deactivation not a concern. Uncovered liability, huge! Obviously, many drivers don't care. Or, they're just plain uneducated.



BigRedDriver said:


> Most minors do not, thru, but by the time they are 18? Most do. No ID, pick up at school? No ride. From mall? Judgement call. I tend to go with the "better safe than sorry" method. Cancel and move on.
> 
> $5 and worth the risk.


Absolutely! And in these situations, I cancel "Unaccompanied Minor" and collect $5. Way more profitable. Zero miles - five bucks. All day long.



Uberfunitis said:


> Each jurisdiction is different and that is part of the problem with a multinational forum.......
> 
> As soon as I accept a ping and pick someone up it is not a clear private public distinction. In DC I fall under the department of for hire vehicles. It is no longer a private vehicle really as I no longer can pick and choose who rides in my vehicle. I must follow anti discrimination laws for one thing at that point.


You are not covered by insurance. Very uneducated to pick up unaccompanied minors. Talk to Uber hub and Uber's insurance for verification.


----------



## SlyBandit (Dec 24, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Don't need to find it. All's I know, 100%, is it's against Uber Policy and insurance will not cover a claim. Period.
> 
> I don't take this kind of risk. For $4 - 5? Nope. Deactivation not a concern. Uncovered liability, huge! Obviously, many drivers don't care. Or, they're just plain uneducated.
> 
> ...


How do you get the $5? You have to wait the 5 mins or do you ask them to cancel? Because an early cancel will not pay you and it seems like waiting 5 mins, which can feel like forever sometimes, may not be worth it. I am just curious. I HATE when parents request rides for their kids, that's terrible parenting. If they just used Google for 5 minutes a lot of our time can be saved https://ride.guru/content/newsroom/rideshare-services-for-children


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Don't need to find it. All's I know, 100%, is it's against Uber Policy and insurance will not cover a claim. Period.


You claimed it is illeagal, it is not.

the commercial policy would cover as long as the ride was set up through the app.

the commercial policy it on the ride regardless. wrong driver, wrong car , minor , too many passengers all covered . That is the law!

should we take minors? no, hell no but its not illeagal and it does not void insurance.



Jennyma said:


> Minors who don't drive don't have IDs


I had one @14. i needed it to get my first job.


----------



## SlyBandit (Dec 24, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-706A.html#NRS706ASec190
> 
> 
> Uber most certainly is... at least according to the written standards from Uber for qualifying for an account. On the other hand, has a minor ever been denied having an account in Nevada? It seems like plenty of minors have accounts despite Uber's written policy against it.


They most certainly ARE NOT breaking the law. Has everyone that is unsure of this grown up in a bubble? Unless in the rare case of an emancipated minor, then no person under the age of 18 is allowed to enter into a legally binding contract without a parent/guardian. It's the law for like everything, everywhere. Like when Justin Beiber (random I know) was a millionaire when he was 16 he had to get his mom to buy or at least co-sign for a house, car etc. It's common damn sense, the Police are not even allowed to take a statement from a minor without their parent or guardian present.



Boca Ratman said:


> You claimed it is illeagal, it is not.
> 
> the commercial policy would cover as long as the ride was set up through the app.
> 
> ...


IT IS ILLEGAL https://www.wfsb.com/news/it-s-ille...cle_28732ace-b151-5f10-a00d-422fd1d4efea.html


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

SlyBandit said:


> They most certainly ARE NOT breaking the law. Has everyone that is unsure of this grown up in a bubble? Unless in the rare case of an emancipated minor, then no person under the age of 18 is allowed to enter into a legally binding contract without a parent/guardian. It's the law for like everything, everywhere. Like when Justin Beiber (random I know) was a millionaire when he was 16 he had to get his mom to buy or at least co-sign for a house, car etc. It's common damn sense, the Police are not even allowed to take a statement from a minor without their parent or guardian present.


No legally binding contract is required by the law. That's Uber's problem, but not the states' problem.

State says if a minor tries to get in a car after connecting through the TNC network, and the TNC driver denies them, driver can have TNC permit revoked.

State says if a minor wants to ride, and if Uber discriminates against them, then Uber could face financial penalties or worse.

The fact that Uber requires a contract from passengers is Uber's problem. Uber does not have to require any contract any more than any taxi driver has to require a contract to let a passenger ride.


----------



## SlyBandit (Dec 24, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> No legally binding contract is required by the law. That's Uber's problem, but not the states' problem.
> 
> State says if a minor tries to get in a car after connecting through the TNC network, and the TNC driver denies them, driver can have TNC permit revoked.
> 
> ...


It isn't about the minor getting a ride really, it's about HOW they got that ride in the first place, meaning you have to be 18 to make an account because you ARE signing a legally binding contract when you do. Therefore, somewhere along the line whether the minor or the parent broke Uber's TOS by making an account while under 18 or requesting a ride for a minor. Also https://tripswithtykes.com/lyft-uber-with-kids/ . and https://www.businessinsider.com/parents-using-uber-to-shuttle-kids-home-2015-3

If you want to use the Rideshare company's service then you must obey the rules just as any other service you may pay for. So in Philadelphia, a rider MUST have a car seat for a small child and NO they can not, minors that is, ride without a parent or guardian because the minor can't hold an account and the parent can't request for the minor. Skip over the discrimination part because it should not go that far or be handled in that way. Instead of saying no i can't because you are under 18, say no I can't because you are not the account holder and I can not confirm that the person who is, is your parent. Then, if you really want, skip all of that and just take liability into account and that's a HUGE no from me at least. I will not be responsible for your child's well being. My parents were able to get me where I needed to go as a kid, why is it so difficult nowadays, it's not Uber's fault they didn't exist when I was a kid. Leaving the blame on the parents. Yea that sucks to do, but if you are going to have a child you need to be able to care for that child until they are 18 at least. Is the country/government/economy a factor too, sure, but it always has been.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

SlyBandit said:


> It isn't about the minor getting a ride really, it's about HOW they got that ride in the first place, meaning you have to be 18 to make an account because you ARE signing a legally binding contract when you do.


Incorrect. Nothing in the law requires any account that involves any legally binding contract in order to ride in a TNC vehicle any more than the law requires you to make a legally binding contract when you enter a taxi cab. Riders connect to a TNC company through a digital network, but that doesn't imply a requirement for any sort of contract. Can a minor send an e-mail? Yes? Then he can use a digital network. Payments could be made with cash for all the law cares.



> Therefore, somewhere along the line whether the minor or the parent broke Uber's TOS by making an account while under 18 or requesting a ride for a minor.


Uber TOS violates the law.



> I Skip over the discrimination part because it should not go that far or be handled in that way. Instead of saying no i can't because you are under 18, say no I can't because you are not the account holder and I can not confirm that the person who is, is your parent.


A lot of minors are the actual account holder, or at least their name is on the account. You can argue their "account" is invalid per Uber TOS, but Uber TOS is invalid per the law. You are also allowed to transport people who are not the account holder, if the account holder authorizes it. It doesn't matter if the account holder is a parent or a stranger.

Uber TOS violates the law and if you follow Uber TOS to deny a minor you violate the law too. Following the rules of the platform won't protect you from facing regulatory penalties as a driver.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> No legally binding contract is required by the law. That's Uber's problem, but not the states' problem.
> 
> State says if a minor tries to get in a car after connecting through the TNC network, and the TNC driver denies them, driver can have TNC permit revoked.
> 
> ...


You very, very wrong!!! Have validated multiple times. Would love to meet you at a hub and they'll explain to you.

Most of us do not have commercial insurance. Some do. Majority have personal insurance with a rideshare endorsement. Which does not cover claims if unaccompanied minors are involved.

Uber has actually stated and encouraged drivers to call the police in these situations.


SlyBandit said:


> How do you get the $5? You have to wait the 5 mins or do you ask them to cancel? Because an early cancel will not pay you and it seems like waiting 5 mins, which can feel like forever sometimes, may not be worth it. I am just curious. I HATE when parents request rides for their kids, that's terrible parenting. If they just used Google for 5 minutes a lot of our time can be saved https://ride.guru/content/newsroom/rideshare-services-for-children


Yes, I wait the five minutes & collect the cancel fee. Right in front of them.


----------



## SlyBandit (Dec 24, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Incorrect. Nothing in the law requires such an account.
> Uber TOS violates the law.
> 
> A lot of minors are the actual account holder, or at least their name is on the account. You can argue their "account" is invalid per Uber TOS, but Uber TOS is invalid per the law.


So then why would Uber go through the trouble of making a system for minors if it is perfectly fine for them to ride with the company already? Plus you misunderstood me. I meant according to Uber people over the age of 18 can not request a ride for someone under, if they do they can have their account banned.

So you are telling me that Uber's TOS regarding parents requesting rides for their kids, or them not being allowed to, violate a PA state law? It baffles me that first off Uber can make TOS that violate state laws, because that puts drivers in a Catch 22.

Lastly, I just want you to understand that I am not arguing for either side, I am just trying to figure out the truth. My main concern is the liability.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> You very, very wrong!!! Have validated multiple times. Would love to meet you at a hub and they'll explain to you.


The guys on the hub are not lawyers.



> Most of us do not have commercial insurance. Some do. Majority have personal insurance with a rideshare endorsement. Which does not cover claims if unaccompanied minors are involved.


Uber provides liability insurance when you have a passenger. Rideshare endorsement only covers you when you don't have a passenger. Completely irrelevant to this situation.



> Uber has actually stated and encouraged drivers to call the police in these situations.


And what would the police do exactly? There is no law being broken by anyone except the driver who refused service to the passenger. The police would ignore the call, if you are lucky.



SlyBandit said:


> So then why would Uber go through the trouble of making a system for minors if it is perfectly fine for them to ride with the company already?
> 
> Plus you misunderstood me. I meant according to Uber people over the age of 18 can not request a ride for someone under, if they do they can have their account banned.


It isn't fine with the company, it violates TOS. Sure, Uber can ban your account if you transport minors. Then you can still drive for Lyft or others. The state of Nevada can ban you from being a driver for hire for ALL companies if you refuse minors.



> So you are telling me that Uber's TOS regarding parents requesting rides for their kids, or them not being allowed to, violate a PA state law? It baffles me that first off Uber can make TOS that violate state laws, because that puts drivers in a Catch 22.


I don't know anything about PA law, only the NV law. But companies violate laws all the time... especially Uber.


----------



## SlyBandit (Dec 24, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> You very, very wrong!!! Have validated multiple times. Would love to meet you at a hub and they'll explain to you.
> 
> Most of us do not have commercial insurance. Some do. Majority have personal insurance with a rideshare endorsement. Which does not cover claims if unaccompanied minors are involved.
> 
> ...


Hmmm so now YOU are saying the other post is wrong. I tend to agree with you. The commercial insurance I believe they are speaking of is the insurance that you are auto covered by from Uber, which is commercial. But yes, still most people just add the Rideshare option because commercial insurance can be very expensive. Ugh, so confusing, but I love that you wait in front of them then hit no-show. Serves them right when, in Philly for sure, Uber offers a program for minors.



Trafficat said:


> The guys on the hub are not lawyers.
> 
> Uber provides liability insurance when you have a passenger. Rideshare endorsement only covers you when you don't have a passenger. Completely irrelevant to this situation.
> 
> ...


I'll get back to you. From what I am reading PA leans towards child safety and not allowing this, but does in special cases like when they disabilities, which if you turn down a disabled kid, you are just an asshole...so let me research and I'm going to e-mail PENNDot and get an offical statement.



Trafficat said:


> lawyers


That's so funny, like how far from actual lawyers they really are...also yes it's their policy, not ours that you were referring to I understood that. Still $1000 deductible...


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Here a news story from New Zealand.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ted-14-year-old-boy-deported-New-Zealand.html
Kind of publicity Uber tries to avoid with pedobears.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

mikes424 said:


> Just to confuse everyone. This page of Uber's TOS says no age discrimination.
> View attachment 299604


Age discrimination doesn't apply to minors.



Boca Ratman said:


> As a driver, what do you do when you suspect the rider is under 18?
> 
> Do you object to showing the store clerk your ID when buying alcohol?
> 
> ...


I remember being about 7 years old and going to the store pretty much every day alone to buy my step dad a beer and a pack of cigarettes.

I was also the TV remote control. Kids have so few chores these days.



Trafficat said:


> No legally binding contract is required by the law. That's Uber's problem, but not the states' problem.
> 
> State says if a minor tries to get in a car after connecting through the TNC network, and the TNC driver denies them, driver can have TNC permit revoked.
> 
> ...


But by your argument a 5 year old could run away from home and use an uber to do it.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> The guys on the hub are not lawyers.
> 
> Uber provides liability insurance when you have a passenger. Rideshare endorsement only covers you when you don't have a passenger. Completely irrelevant to this situation.
> 
> ...


The guys at the hub are not lawyers? Are you?

If what you post is correct. IMMEDIATELY take the Uber/Lyft TOS to the ACLU and get the lawsuit rolling!

Report back.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

@Trafficat, Whatever law website you are reading is incredibly wrong. Perhaps your info is coming from sovereign citizen website or some crazy homeless person?

As part of creating an uber account you have to agree to their terms of service as a contract. There are stipulations within that contract. No, a contract is not required by law but you do have to agree to the contract to sign up for uber/lyft. A handshake used to work fine until there were so many weasels and sleazeballs. By law, a minor cannot enter into a contract. If you don't agree to the contract then you can't create an account and get a ride. If a minor should click through they, technically, shouldn't even get a ride. This unfortunately is where the rubber meets the road with us.

@uberfun, let try this... You are carrying an unaccompanied minor. You have a seemingly minor (no pun intended) accident. The other driver does not have insurance. The kid says he is fine and you continue with the ride. The kid gets home and dies from a blood clot or brain injury or ruptured spleen. Do you really think Uber is going to be magnanimous and cover your ass out of the goodness of their heart? You made a medical decision that cost the kid his life.

Or, do you call an ambulance and subject the parents to a 5 or 6 figure medical bill to find the kid is ok? Do you think they will just let you skate by? Again, Uber is not going to pay for that, your personal coverage won't cover while in phase3 and the other driver doesn't have insurance. You are screwed.

One might also say that once you agreed to give the kid a ride, you were in violation of the TOS (regardless if you asked the age or not) and Uber could take the position that your were terminated as soon as you started the ride and their insurance doesn't cover terminated drivers.

We don't know all the stipulations in the agreements between Uber and the insurance companies. It could be that Uber's insurance companies don't want to cover unaccompanied minors and hence the statement in the TOS. Your rideshare insurance coverage was likely constructed with the known uber restrictions in mind. So, again, you are left holding the bag and defending criminal and civil cases without any insurance.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

CarpeNoctem said:


> @Trafficat, Whatever law website you are reading is incredibly wrong. Perhaps your info is coming from sovereign citizen website or some crazy homeless person?
> 
> As part of creating an uber account you have to agree to their terms of service as a contract. There are stipulations within that contract. No, a contract is not required by law but you do have to agree to the contract to sign up for uber/lyft. A handshake used to work fine until there were so many weasels and sleazeballs. By law, a minor cannot enter into a contract. If you don't agree to the contract then you can't create an account and get a ride. If a minor should click through they, technically, shouldn't even get a ride. This unfortunately is where the rubber meets the road with us.
> 
> ...


Ubers insurance covers the passengers any passenger while on a paid trip simple and end no more needed. No I am not going to purposefully take a kid as a passenger but if it happens they are covered as any passenger is.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> The guys on the hub are not lawyers.
> 
> Uber provides liability insurance when you have a passenger. Rideshare endorsement only covers you when you don't have a passenger. Completely irrelevant to this situation.
> 
> And what would the police do exactly? There is no law being broken by anyone except the driver who refused service to the passenger. The police would ignore the call, if you are lucky.


It is not illegal to refuse service to an unaccompanied minor. Trus


BigRedDriver said:


> The guys at the hub are not lawyers? Are you?
> 
> If what you post is correct. IMMEDIATELY take the Uber/Lyft TOS to the ACLU and get the lawsuit rolling!
> 
> Report back.


Lawsuit? Right? Have verified legally. But, this is how I run my business and will continue.

Could care less about what you think. You run your business, I'll run mine. ACLU? You sound like one of "those people". ACLU is a bunch of no good liberals!

If this bothers you so much, you take it to the ACLU for a lawsuit. Why would I do it? Continuing business as usual.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Ubers insurance covers the passengers any passenger while on a paid trip simple and end no more needed. No I am not going to purposefully take a kid as a passenger but if it happens they are covered as any passenger is.


Unless you have a copy of Uber's insurance policy, you don't *know* that.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

CarpeNoctem said:


> Unless you have a copy of Uber's insurance policy, you don't *know* that.


Unless you can show me where there is an exclusion in their policy I do know that.

Look there are accidents everyday with Uber, if Uber hung a passenger out to dry it would be all over the news. Uber will not screw with passengers like that because it would greatly damage peoples faith in the service.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> It is not illegal to refuse service to an unaccompanied minor. Trus
> 
> Lawsuit? Right? Have verified legally. But, this is how I run my business and will continue.
> 
> ...


I would NOT take it to the ACLU. Why would I? Those who think that Uber is discriminatingagainst minors should.

Why would they not? Don't they want an answer. Heck, just take the TOS to an attorney that specializes in these topics along with the statue that they believe Uber is in violation of, and get a legal opinion.

Report back. They could be the Rosa Parks of the rideshare industry!

But I doubt it.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> The guys on the hub are not lawyers.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that neither are you.

Maybe you can cite a court decision wherein Uber was ordered to pay damages to an unaccompanied minor who was injured in a collision.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that neither are you.
> 
> Maybe you can cite a court decision wherein Uber was ordered to pay damages to an unaccompanied minor who was injured in a collision.


Or A case that was ever brought against Uber for not wanting to pay for a passengers injuries.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that neither are you.
> 
> Maybe you can cite a court decision wherein Uber was ordered to pay damages to an unaccompanied minor who was injured in a collision.


???? What's with "you people" Do not need to show you or do anything. Merely stating how I do business and will continue to.

Not trying to prove anything here. Do not care what anyone else does. Was merely trying to share what I've experienced and learned with other drivers.

Because I don't care what you do, not going cite anything or try to argue a legal point. If you disagree, then simply keep conducting business your way. End of conversation.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> ???? What's with "you people" Do not need to show you or do anything. Merely stating how I do business and will continue to.
> 
> Not trying to prove anything here. Do not care what anyone else does. Was merely trying to share what I've experienced and learned with other drivers.
> 
> Because I don't care what you do, not going cite anything or try to argue a legal point. If you disagree, then simply keep conducting business your way. End of conversation.


Nope just trying to instill fear in people and when confronted refusing to back up your statements.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> remember being about 7 years old and going to the store pretty much every day alone to buy my step dad a beer and a pack of cigarettes.


lol. yeah, me too.

I could get cigarettes at the corner store just by telling the store clerk they were for mom but I need a note to get beer for grandpa. Unreal now that I think about it.

imagine sending a 12 year old to the store now with a note to get beer and cigarettes, they would arrest me!





SlyBandit said:


> IT IS ILLEGAL


Lol, here a news station website is citing Uber policy as law.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Nope just trying to instill fear in people and when confronted refusing to back up your statements.


You have not instilled fear whatsoever. Do not need to back it up. Read my last post again if you don't understand.

On that note, clicking on the ignore status.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> You have not instilled fear whatsoever. Do not need to back it up. Read my last post again if you don't understand.
> 
> On that note, clicking on the ignore status.


LOL my goal was never to instill fear that seemed to be yours.... better luck next time.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Or A case that was ever brought against Uber for not wanting to pay for a passengers injuries.


I have looked -- only a cursory look, not an exhaustive search, mind you -- but I haven't yet seen any case that would clearly bear on this point one way or the other.

However, I think that if an unaccompanied minor were to be injured during an Uber ride (especially if the injuries were serious), it is virtually a certainty that the following people are all going to get sued:


The driver that caused the accident, if different from the Uber driver.
The Uber driver individually, whether or not he or she was not the cause of the accident.
Uber, as the contractor providing the driver.

The injured party is going to sue anyone and everyone who can conceivably be sued, and that means Uber as an business entity, but also the Uber driver individually.

Uber's insurance company is _highly likely _to disclaim coverage based on the TOS. Insurance companies are not known for generously making payouts when their obligation to indemnify the insured is clearly absent or even doubtful and in this case they would have a plausible basis for denying coverage and would almost certainly attempt to do so.

This means they will refuse to provide a defense for the Uber driver in court, and the Uber driver will have to pay for his or her own lawyer. Uber will argue that the Uber driver is liable, and the injured party will argue that _both_ Uber and the Uber driver individually are both liable.

Of course, it is possible that in the end, a jury might find that Uber is (at least partially) liable, and that their insurance must indemnify them, but they also might not. Or it is also possible that the judge may decide, as a matter of law, that Uber is not liable, and that question might never get to the jury, but I have not as yet seen any indication that any courts have ruled on this question. In either event, Uber is going to be distancing itself from its driver, and arguing that the driver is solely liable. The driver is going to have to pay for his or her own defense.

This has a little more immediacy for me than it did a few days ago, because I had an accident two days ago (not while driving for Uber); the other driver failed to yield the right of way, and I saw him for literally one or two seconds at most before impact. He came shooting out of a parking lot from my left, but traffic going in the opposite direction from me shielded my view of him (and his view of me); he simply didn't bother to wait to see if traffic was clear before he came out. I'm a pretty careful driver, especially since I've been Uber driving, but there was absolutely nothing I could have done to avoid the collision. No one was hurt, but that was just good luck; there could have _easily_ been serious injuries.

An accident can happen in a heart beat, can be completely unavoidable, and there can be serious personal injuries. Don't think "it can't happen to me". It can. It _probably won't_. But it _can_.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I have looked -- only a cursory look, not an exhaustive search, mind you -- but I haven't yet seen any case that would clearly bear on this point one way or the other.
> 
> However, I think that if an unaccompanied minor were to be injured during an Uber ride (especially if the injuries were serious), it is virtually a certainty that the following people are all going to get sued:
> 
> ...


Another possible explanation for not finding incidents where Uber has refused to pay for a passenger is that it has not happened.

The insurance paid and everyone went their own way. I have not seen many incidents that have a liability greater than 1M.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I have looked -- only a cursory look, not an exhaustive search, mind you -- but I haven't yet seen any case that would clearly bear on this point one way or the other.
> 
> However, I think that if an unaccompanied minor were to be injured during an Uber ride (especially if the injuries were serious), it is virtually a certainty that the following people are all going to get sued:
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct. Have validated, what you've stated, with Uber's insurance Underwriter, my insurance agent, underwriter and adjuster. Also, with a personal injury attorney.

All of them state the same exact opinion. Uber's insurance would deny the claim. That is all I need to know. For me, deactivation would not be a concern whatsoever.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> You are absolutely correct. Have validated, what you've stated, with Uber's insurance Underwriter, my insurance agent, underwriter and adjuster. Also, with a personal injury attorney.
> 
> All of them state the same exact opinion. Uber's insurance would deny the claim. That is all I need to know. For me, deactivation would not be a concern whatsoever.


You have all this validated you say but are unwilling to provide any of that validation other than your word that you did it..... Sorry, not sorry your word is not all that compelling.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Another possible explanation for not finding incidents where Uber has refused to pay for a passenger is that it has not happened.
> 
> The insurance paid and everyone went their own way. I have not seen many incidents that have a liability greater than 1M.


If people want to do this, I really don't care. I have no interest in trying to persuade people to stop doing this if they want to continue. It means nothing to me either way.

My only point is that people who may not have thought about it previously should be aware that there are potential risks here that they might not want to bother taking on for a few dollars.

Of course, we're only taking about possible risks associated with personal injuries due to accidents at the moment. There are other risks frequently discussed here, e.g., possible false accusations by the minor. Are you going to call the police to have him removed if he refuses to get out? Are the police going to ask a lot of questions about why you have an unaccompanied minor in your car? Do you care? If you don't, then fine. Suppose the minor lights up a joint in the back seat during the ride. Are you going to throw him or her out on the side of the road like you would an adult? Are there going to be liability issues as a result of that? Maybe not, but maybe there would be. There is the potential here for messy complications.

But if you're aware of all the risks, and view it as worth it to you for a few bucks, have at it. I don't care.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> If people want to do this, I really don't care. I have no interest in trying to persuade people to stop doing this if they want to continue. It means nothing to me either way.
> 
> My only point is that people who may not have thought about it previously should be aware that there are potential risks here that they might not want to bother taking on for a few dollars.
> 
> ...


As I have said I will not knowingly have a child as a passenger but I am sure that it has happened. There are steps you can take to lessen the chance but it is still bound to happen at one point or another. All the things that you mention I would have no problem doing especially with notifying the police. I have.a dash cam and am not afraid to share it with law enforcement.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

CarpeNoctem said:


> @Trafficat, Whatever law website you are reading is incredibly wrong. Perhaps your info is coming from sovereign citizen website or some crazy homeless person?


I quoted the actual text of the laws and regulations in my state from https://www.leg.state.nv.us/ and provided links and statute numbers.



> As part of creating an uber account you have to agree to their terms of service as a contract. There are stipulations within that contract. No, a contract is not required by law but you do have to agree to the contract to sign up for uber/lyft. A handshake used to work fine until there were so many weasels and sleazeballs. By law, a minor cannot enter into a contract. If you don't agree to the contract then you can't create an account and get a ride. If a minor should click through they, technically, shouldn't even get a ride. This unfortunately is where the rubber meets the road with us.


The state forbids discriminating against minors and does not require any contract that any minor has to sign.
Uber forbids minors explicitly, so whether or not minors can enter a contract is irrelevant. The law also does not require Uber to require a contract, which makes it even more irrelevant whether minors can enter a contract. It only makes requiring a contract illegal if that is the case.



BigRedDriver said:


> The guys at the hub are not lawyers? Are you?


I'm not a lawyer, but I can find laws on the internet and read them. I doubt green light hub members could cite any laws or regulations or court rulings to back up their positions. They likely don't have the knowledge nor the motivation to seek it. If you ask them, they'll probably just repeat company policy and assure you everything Uber does is on the up and up. Their wild guesses as to what the laws are about as valid as anyone else's, and worse than looking up the law on the internet if they just go by gut feelings or what they thought they learned about them in school 20 years ago, which is also highly probable.


----------



## 1974toyota (Jan 5, 2018)

amazinghl said:


> You bought a $40,000 car for uber? LOL


ROFLMAO


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I quoted the actual text of the laws and regulations in my state from https://www.leg.state.nv.us/ and provided links and statute numbers.
> 
> The state forbids discriminating against minors and does not require any contract that any minor has to sign.
> Uber forbids minors explicitly, so whether or not minors can enter a contract is irrelevant. The law also does not require Uber to require a contract, which makes it even more irrelevant whether minors can enter a contract. It only makes requiring a contract illegal if that is the case.
> ...


I can assure you, the State does not forbid discrimination against a minor.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I'm not a lawyer, but I can find laws on the internet and read them.


I really don't mean this as a knock, but I'm sure you've heard the expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Just reading a statute, without any reference to any case law that has interpreted the statute, or to the context of the statute, or in isolation from any other statutes, can be _highly_ misleading.

The real question is whether anyone who _is_ a lawyer will say that the statute would be interpreted in the manner that you're suggesting.

It would seem, for example, that your way of interpreting the law would mean that refusing to sell alcohol to a minor is age discrimination.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I really don't mean this as a knock, but I'm sure you've heard the expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
> 
> Just reading a statute, without any reference to any case law that has interpreted the statute, or to the context of the statute, or in isolation from any other statutes, can be _highly_ misleading.
> 
> ...


Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be)

Age discrimination falls under civil rights. Civil rights are a Federal Matter if I am not mistaken.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be)
> 
> Age discrimination falls under civil rights. Civil rights are a Federal Matter if I am not mistaken.


Each state usually has their own laws concerning discrimination as well


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Each state usually has their own laws concerning discrimination as well


They normally simply reflect federal and state law is subordinate to federal as it applies to Civil Rights


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be)
> 
> Age discrimination falls under civil rights. Civil rights are a Federal Matter if I am not mistaken.


Most if not all states have their own Civil Rights laws in addition to Federal law.



BigRedDriver said:


> They normally simply reflect federal and state law is subordinate to federal as it applies to Civil Rights


They are not "subordinate" in that state (unless they are in actual conflict with Federal law); state laws can be more expansive than federal laws and provide protections that are broader, and go above and beyond, Federal laws within that state.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

JohnnyBravo836 said:


> I really don't mean this as a knock, but I'm sure you've heard the expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
> 
> Just reading a statute, without any reference to any case law that has interpreted the statute, or to the context of the statute, or in isolation from any other statutes, can be _highly_ misleading.


Okay, find me some applicable case law and build an argument around it. I've provided statutes and explained my reasoning. It seems the best those opposed to my interpretation can do is say "federal law for employment doesn't work that way" or "then why can't minors solicit prostitutes". We aren't talking about child equality here, nor federal employment discrimination laws that have an expliclty stated scope of protecting people over the age of 40. We are talking about a specific law which does not have any inherent limitations built into the wording.

I may not be a lawyer, but I've spent undoubtedly thousands of hours reading over laws, proposed bills, attending legislative hearings, reading over court transcripts, etc. I've also been in court as a defendant. As a rhetorical question for those who are very confident that I am wrong... have you ever attended a single legislative hearing? Ever looked up a single law published on a legislative website? Ever read through a single court transcript? Ever sat in a courthouse at all for any reason? I would venture to guess that the majority of people alive in America would say no to each of those questions.

I could be plainly wrong. I'm often wrong about laws, and I'm willing to admit it. Even actual lawyers are often wrong. 50% of lawyers are in fact wrong in cases that involve a matter of legal interpretation (as opposed to evidence) to ascertain civil or criminal liability.

But please, rather than simply calling me wrong because I might have missed something, please show me what it is that you think I missed.

One thing people often do not realize is that the law is actually seldom black and white. There often is no case law until it is made by a court, and courts often rule contrary to expectations of experienced attorneys. Case law is often quite delayed in being formed because of an absence of people contesting the law. My guess is only a handful of drivers nationwide have ever been deactivated for transporting a minor, and that none of them ever cared to contest it legally even if they lived in a state with such anti discrimination laws. Probably most of them also agreed to binding arbitration, and it is also quite likely that if they were deactivated over such an issue that it could have been settled out of court by means of reactivation or another settlement as I doubt Uber wants to take this issue to court. I'm also guessing that while many minors have been denied rides in Nevada, that in no case has it been brought before the NTA for the simple reason that the minors were not aware of the anti-discrimination rule and did not report the discrimination to the NTA.

I'm about 70% confident that my interpretation of the law is the same as a court would rule, but I'm baffled why it seems that people who are unwilling to even read laws seem to be 99% confident that I'm wrong.



> It would seem, for example, that your way of interpreting the law would mean that refusing to sell alcohol to a minor is age discrimination.


Not at all. The law explicitly forbids selling alcohol to minors and no anti-discrimination statute exists in that context. People keep saying that sort of thing in response to my post over and over again, as if there is one anti-discrimination law for everything... This is a specific anti-discrimination law that only applies in the context of passengers riding in a TNC vehicle and has no broader implications, and furthermore the wording is entirely different than the anti-discrimination laws only held to apply to say, hiring people over the age of 40. I don't see how a law saying one may not discriminate against "passengers" based on age would extend itself to any other realm.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Okay, find me some applicable case law and build an argument around it. I've provided statutes and explained my reasoning. It seems the best those opposed to my interpretation can do is say "federal law for employment doesn't work that way" or "then why can't minors solicit prostitutes". We aren't talking about child equality here, nor federal employment discrimination laws that have an expliclty stated scope of protecting people over the age of 40. We are talking about a specific law which does not have any inherent limitations built into the wording.
> 
> I may not be a lawyer, but I've spent undoubtedly thousands of hours reading over laws, proposed bills, attending legislative hearings, reading over court transcripts, etc. I've also been in court as a defendant. As a rhetorical question for those who are very confident that I am wrong... have you ever attended a single legislative hearing? Ever looked up a single law published on a legislative website? Ever read through a single court transcript? Ever sat in a courthouse at all for any reason? I would venture to guess that the majority of people alive in America would say no to each of those questions.
> 
> ...


I want to be clear: I was very careful not to say "you are wrong". Since you are referring specifically to a Nevada Transportation statute, I would be interested in seeing any relevant judicial opinions, or hearing the opinion of a member of the Nevada State Bar on this question, and whether he or she is aware of any circumstances in Nevada law where minors have prevailed in age discrimination cases of _any_ kind. Also, decisions on similar questions in other state courts might not be controlling precedents, but they might be suggestive as to how courts generally are likely to rule on the issue.

Apart from that, I will only say that I'm _highly_ skeptical that a minor could be successful suing for damages after being refused a ride on the basis of "age discrimination" in Nevada (or any other state). But until the question has been ruled on by a Nevada court, there is, by definition, no applicable case law to point to in order to predict how a court will rule. It is, apparently, an unsettled question of law at the moment. There shouldn't be anything very surprising about that; ridesharing is a relatively recent development, and the issue apparently hasn't made it up to any appellate level court as far as I can tell. But I have to believe that before long, it will.

Just as an aside, it's a _little_ unfair to suggest that 50% of lawyers are wrong about their legal interpretations because half the lawyers lose the case when a decision is made.  We know those lawyers are paid to make those arguments on behalf of their clients, irrespective of whether they believe those arguments to be good ones or likely to prevail. They are obliged to make the best argument they can, even when they know, the opposing counsel knows, and the court knows they're wrong. Never take at face value the opinion of a lawyer who is being paid to represent a client; they will, and _must_, take positions that they know are wrong and are going to lose.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

If the state truly forbade discrimination against minors there would be no minor classification. Otherwise, all ages would be equal.

Again, how is it minors are not allowed to gamble or drink in NV? That doesn't require anybody to sign a contract.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

I’m still curious why those that think Uber is violating the law, simply won’t just pick up minors, call Uber, tell them they just picked up a minor and transported them?

If deactivated, simply take the deactivation to court and let a judge tell Uber they are breaking the law and force Uber to reinstate, with damages to the driver in the civil suit that would surely follow. 

Who wouldn’t want to get rich?

Maybe because they ain’t so sure?

You cannot be ordered to break the law in order to keep a job. At least I’ve been told.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

CarpeNoctem said:


> Again, how is it minors are not allowed to gamble or drink in NV? That doesn't require anybody to sign a contract.


Because the law says that TNC drivers cannot discriminate against passengers by age, and doesn't say that a casino can't discriminate against customers by age. I think I've written this in just about every post I've written in this thread, but it seems that nobody actually reads through the entirety of my post or perhaps I'm unable to be clear.

Is it really that hard to believe that the state might not want a kid guzzling booze, but might believe that a driver shouldn't leave a lost 15 year old stranded on a lonely desert highway?


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

One thing confuses me. Some posters say minors are not included in the age discrimination laws. If true, why are there laws specifically saying minors cannot purchase tobacco and liquor?


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> I'm still curious why those that think Uber is violating the law, simply won't just pick up minors, call Uber, tell them they just picked up a minor and transported them?
> 
> If deactivated, simply take the deactivation to court and let a judge tell Uber they are breaking the law and force Uber to reinstate, with damages to the driver in the civil suit that would surely follow.
> 
> ...


Similarly, maybe drivers should call up the NTA and tell them they refused service to people because they were young if they are so sure of their position and sue the passengers for lost income for wasting their time where they could have transported a real rider on a 13x surge. Just as likely to get rich quick.

The law provides a regulatory penalty against Uber should Uber be discriminatory, but no financial reward for the driver.

The driver would be deactivated and out of a job for a while and likely have a lot of difficulty recovering damages... damages would also be likely limited to projected earnings... i.e., if you made $350 a week, and Uber kept you deactivated for 2 weeks before settling with you, you might get a whole $700 in damages after months of litigation.

There is no basis for a civil rights lawsuit for the driver, and even for the passenger it isn't like a federal discrimination statute. I keep saying this repeatedly but no one seems to understand the concept. This is a DIFFERENT law and has nothing to do with the civil right act. The passenger, suing, at best can sue for actual damages. Maybe the minor was on the way to a part time job and is out $80 for missing work. So the passenger might be entitled to a reward of $80 in damages.

And as I said, court rulings are often uncertain. I predicted a 70% certainty that I'm right. That's still some risk. You might say, "oh a 70% certainty means you are taking a 30% risk transporting minors of being deactivated and not reinstated." Yeah, but it also means a 70% risk that if reported by a rider for discrimination that you get banned as a driver by the state!



mikes424 said:


> One thing confuses me. Some posters say minors are not included in the age discrimination laws. If true, why are there laws specifically saying minors cannot purchase tobacco and liquor?


Because the laws are different. Again, why is it so hard to think the state might not want a stranded teenager unable to get a ride home, while at the same time opposing that same teenager getting drunk?

The laws are not the same.

The laws are not the same.

The laws are not the same.

When you have one law saying "you must be 18 to do X" and another law saying "you cannot discriminate against people for Y" why would one conflate X and Y?

How much do you want to bet the next post quoting this one also says something like, "Then why can't toddlers get an explosive license?"

"Your honor, my child was wrongly denied medical marijuana on the basis of age pursuant to the regulation that says Uber drivers cannot discriminate against passengers on the basis of age!" - Flawed legal argument.


----------



## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Similarly, maybe drivers should call up the NTA and tell them they refused service to people because they were young if they are so sure of their position and sue the passengers for lost income for wasting their time where they could have transported a real rider on a 13x surge. Just as likely to get rich quick.
> 
> The law provides a regulatory penalty against Uber should Uber be discriminatory, but no financial reward for the driver.
> 
> ...


Then why can't toddlers get an explosive license?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Jennyma said:


> Minors who don't drive don't have IDs. Most have school ids but they don't have their bookbags going out to the mall or movies or wherever they go. Expecting them to have an ID is nuts. Those who do rideshare don't drive so even less likely to carry any. Only if you are over 21 and want to drink would you have a non driving state id.


Well the fact that MINORS may not have ID doesn't matter. You won't be taking them if they can't show ID and that's fine.

Anyone 18 or over is very likely to have ID and if they don't they SHOULD find out quickly that they need one to get in an uber on THEIR account OR someone else's. If they want to use rideshare then they need an ID. Just as if you're 21 and want to buy booze you need one. Why is expecting them to get ID at 21 to buy booze any different than expecting them to get ID at 18 to get in my car?



Trafficat said:


> Okay, find me some applicable case law and build an argument around it. I've provided statutes and explained my reasoning. It seems the best those opposed to my interpretation can do is say "federal law for employment doesn't work that way" or "then why can't minors solicit prostitutes". We aren't talking about child equality here, nor federal employment discrimination laws that have an expliclty stated scope of protecting people over the age of 40. We are talking about a specific law which does not have any inherent limitations built into the wording.
> 
> I may not be a lawyer, but I've spent undoubtedly thousands of hours reading over laws, proposed bills, attending legislative hearings, reading over court transcripts, etc. I've also been in court as a defendant. As a rhetorical question for those who are very confident that I am wrong... have you ever attended a single legislative hearing? Ever looked up a single law published on a legislative website? Ever read through a single court transcript? Ever sat in a courthouse at all for any reason? I would venture to guess that the majority of people alive in America would say no to each of those questions.
> 
> ...


Again, then what is to stop a 5 year old from running away from home and using uber to do it? You have not answered this.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Similarly, maybe drivers should call up the NTA and tell them they refused service to people because they were young if they are so sure of their position and sue the passengers for lost income for wasting their time where they could have transported a real rider on a 13x surge. Just as likely to get rich quick.
> 
> The law provides a regulatory penalty against Uber should Uber be discriminatory, but no financial reward for the driver.
> 
> ...


Risk vs reward.

Thank you.

Are we done now?



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Well the fact that MINORS may not have ID doesn't matter. You won't be taking them if they can't show ID and that's fine.
> 
> Anyone 18 or over is very likely to have ID and if they don't they SHOULD find out quickly that they need one to get in an uber on THEIR account OR someone else's. If they want to use rideshare then they need an ID. Just as if you're 21 and want to buy booze you need one. Why is expecting them to get ID at 21 to buy booze any different than expecting them to get ID at 18 to get in my car?
> 
> ...


And according to some, it would be illegal to refuse the 5 year old service.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Again, then what is to stop a 5 year old from running away from home and using uber to do it? You have not answered this.


Nothing stops this in theory. In practice, few 5 year olds run away from home, few 5 year olds have cell phones or can operate cell phones with the mental capacity to even call for an Uber. And even fewer 5 year olds know how to file an age discrimination complaint with the NTA.

Realistically, the biggest threat to a driver with regards to an age discrimination complaint is from an angsty teenager who may call for an Uber specifically to file an age discrimination complaint.


----------



## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

amazinghl said:


> You bought a $40,000 car for uber? LOL


I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY 
ONE THAT NOTICED THAT!!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Trafficat said:


> Nothing stops this in theory. In practice, few 5 year olds run away from home, few 5 year olds have cell phones or can operate cell phones with the mental capacity to even call for an Uber. And even fewer 5 year olds know how to file an age discrimination complaint with the NTA.
> 
> Realistically, the biggest threat to a driver with regards to an age discrimination complaint is from an angsty teenager who may call for an Uber specifically to file an age discrimination complaint.


What is to stop a Pedophile from calling an uber for them? And according to the "age discrimination" theory, we would be expected to drive them to the pedophile, alone.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What is to stop a Pedophile from calling an uber for them? And according to the "age discrimination" theory, we would be expected to drive them to the pedophile, alone.


What's to stop you from transporting a minor accompanied by a pedophile adult who lured him to come with him? Do you also avoid accompanied minors or only unaccompanied minors.


----------

