# We noticed you frequently tap your phone when you drive.



## RSALAS (Jun 5, 2018)

Anyone has gotten this email from Lyft recently as title states.
Do they mean waiting or during ride? What are they doing? Anyone please


----------



## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Care to explain the details? Are you actually tapping on your phone frequently?


----------



## RSALAS (Jun 5, 2018)

No I am not. I wonder if they are watching into your phone when we are waiting on rides and refreshing their app and Ubers or is it during in ride but how.
That’s all the email says. Anyone has gotten and maybe can tell us what happened or what’s happening


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

vasoline ? rubber gloves ???? tube socks ???


----------



## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

RSALAS said:


> No I am not. I wonder if they are watching into your phone when we are waiting on rides and refreshing their app and Ubers or is it during in ride but how.
> That's all the email says. Anyone has gotten and maybe can tell us what happened or what's happening


That was along my first thought, if they're secretly using your phone's microphone to pick up ambient sound, and they're picking up rattling etc.
I have the microphone permission denied to both Lyft and Uber apps on my phone.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Mash Ghasem said:


> That was along my first thought, if they're secretly using your phone's microphone to pick up ambient sound, and they're picking up rattling etc.
> I have the microphone permission denied to both Lyft and Uber apps on my phone.


I'm guessing they can determine when their app is in focus... so if you bring another app into focus, they know their app is out of focus... make sense?


----------



## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I'm guessing they can determine when their app is in focus... so if you bring another app into focus, they know their app is out of focus... make sense?


But where does their "frequently tap" claim come from? Swapping back & forth between apps?


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Mash Ghasem said:


> But where does their "frequently tap" claim come from? Swapping back & forth between apps?


Yes...

Or maybe their wording is not exactly correct... &#129335;‍♂


----------



## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Yes...
> 
> Or maybe their wording is not exactly correct... &#129335;‍♂


Hmmm, possibly making assumptions and trying to "penalize" in an underhanded way...


----------



## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Post the message from Lyft. 

It’s also no wonder why Uber wants to be separate from Lyft in the employee vs contractor issue. Tapping on your phone? If true what kind of nanny crap is this? This is something that sounds like a micro managing boss would say, to me lyft has done nothing but confirm that drivers should be employees


----------



## 10Expedia (Jul 23, 2020)

RSALAS said:


> No I am not. I wonder if they are watching into your phone when we are waiting on rides and refreshing their app and Ubers or is it during in ride but how.
> That's all the email says. Anyone has gotten and maybe can tell us what happened or what's happening


Terms of your agreement allows for Lyft
access to your phone's &#128241; camera & microphone.

Maybe Lyft suspects driver paranoia or the heartbreak of psoriasis


----------



## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

10Expedia said:


> Terms of your agreement allows for Lyft
> access to your phone's &#128241; camera & microphone.
> 
> Maybe Lyft suspects driver paranoia or the heartbreak of psoriasis


Do you know that for a fact?

Regardless, I have mic premissions set to deny.


----------



## 10Expedia (Jul 23, 2020)

Mash Ghasem said:


> Do you know that for a fact?
> Regardless*, I have mic premissions set to deny.*


A picture &#128248; is worth a thousand words


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

We noticed you frequently spy on your drivers when they open the app. Even when Permissions are turned off.

fify.


----------



## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Lol I also got this... okay I swear lyft team must get together each week and discuss what threat email they should send out to drivers haha... I swear 90% of the emails lyft send out is about threats...


----------



## RSALAS (Jun 5, 2018)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Lol I also got this... okay I swear lyft team must get together each week and discuss what threat email they should send out to drivers haha... I swear 90% of the emails lyft send out is about threats...


Did you get it too

I'm wondering if it's waiting on ride while we swap between Lyft and Uber to refresh or is it during ride. If it's during ride the only thing that comes to my mind is when riders have a stop to like a gas station and we &#128064; at phone while waiting in non moving vehicle &#128663;!?????


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

You missed a grand opportunity to talk smack.

"Oh the tapping"... "That's me trying to get your dumb ass gps to work"... "Tech company my ass"... 😂


----------



## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Lol yes I been tapping the that decline button! They are scrambling to get drivers to drive for them... simple no surge no ride.


----------



## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

Just reply to Lyft that you are frequently tapping their mom when you aren't driving


----------



## GumballWaterson (Jan 17, 2020)

RSALAS said:


> Anyone has gotten this email from Lyft recently as title states.
> Do they mean waiting or during ride? What are they doing? Anyone please


The AI is listening in on your rides and is being deterred by a tapping noise, which is confusing the AI. Maybe from your phone holder or charging cord. The TOS gives them permission to listen to your phone when on a ride, This usually done when they have received the same complaint about conversation or attitude with riders.


----------



## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Just reply with "And?"


----------



## SleelWheels (Jun 25, 2019)

We notice you’re shaking it more than twice when done using the toilet.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

RSALAS said:


> No I am not. I wonder if they are watching into your phone when we are waiting on rides and refreshing their app and Ubers or is it during in ride but how.
> That's all the email says. Anyone has gotten and maybe can tell us what happened or what's happening


THEY ARE WATCHING YOU !

THE ALGORITHM HAS DETERMINED YOU MUST BE MONITORED !


----------



## RT_15 (Jan 28, 2020)

I got that one I guess I am switching between Uber and Lift to much or canceling their forced rides


----------



## CheepShot (May 11, 2020)

RSALAS said:


> Anyone has gotten this email from Lyft recently as title states.
> Do they mean waiting or during ride? What are they doing? Anyone please


I've had a popup a few times in the past year or so saying the same thing. It looks like they just email you now. The app uses telemetry from your phone's built-in gyro/compass/motion sensor (which their is no permission setting for). The popup message asked me not to tap my phone while driving, after the warning I started using the phone as a snare drum. It popped up a few times in a row and I haven't seen it since.

Technically, the AI can tell how you drive (like pulsing the throttle or brake or swaying the car), if you have a bad tire or bad balancing, how hard you accelerate and brake and a lot more. The AI keeps that in mind (lol) when assigning orders. With the telemetry the AI can figure out your location using dead reckoning to some degree without the use of the GPS. If you really go down the rabbit hole the motion sensor can be used as a low quality microphone, I'm sure the Uber and Lyft apps are not doing this. There are many videos on the topic available on Youtube.

This applies to all apps on your phone, not just Uber/Lyft and there isn't an easy way to stop or monitor which apps are collecting the data. A phone without Google and with open source apps is hard to live with today. Lyft's drivers app requires Google Play Services, which is also what the built-in Google Covid Tracing uses. The Covid Tracing App is now Opt-in and not Opt-out after an uproar. You can find it on an Android phone under settings>Google to set it either way.


----------



## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

Send a message back "I noticed Uber/Lyft destroyed the transportation industry"


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

RSALAS said:


> Anyone has gotten this email from Lyft recently as title states.
> Do they mean waiting or during ride? What are they doing? Anyone please


Yep I got it. ****ing ridiculous!


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Lol yes I been tapping the that decline button! They are scrambling to get drivers to drive for them... simple no surge no ride.


I'll bet you exactly that is what it is.... The normal message is a lot less stalker-creepy to specifically mention declining rides rather than tapping the phone, but maybe they figure with the "phone tapping" message they can intimidate drivers into compliance by emphasizing safety rather than thinking drivers care about "keeping the platform running smoothly"

The normal message you get when rejecting the 25+ minute requests and only accepting close rides:



> Important update about your driver account
> 
> Passengers rely on drivers to provide a dependable service, and it's important that you're there for them. We've reached out to you several times about your substantial number of missed ride requests. If this problem continues, you'll affect our ability to keep the platform running smoothly.
> 
> It's best for the community when you accept the ride requests you receive, or simply log out of driver mode if you need a break.


I've probably got this same e-mail in my inbox 2 dozen times. I can't wait for the "we've been watching you" stalker messages.

Future message prediction:



> We've reached out to you several times about your substantial use of pornographic sites between ride requests! Passengers rely on you to be there for them and ready to accept ride requests. Simply log out of driver mode if you need a break.


----------



## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

RSALAS said:


> Anyone has gotten this email from Lyft recently as title states.
> Do they mean waiting or during ride? What are they doing? Anyone please


I frequently tap that ass while I drive.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Dear Lyft,

That "tapping" is actually my car going over speed bumps. Please stop sending me to apartment complexes.

Thank you.


----------



## RT_15 (Jan 28, 2020)

And a new one that goes with this email



 
 ​ 
 





Hi David,
Your driver account has been flagged for poor passenger experiences. Please review the following:

*Cancelling too often*: Unless you have an emergency or safety concern, you should try to complete every ride you accept. Learn more about cancellations.
*Getting contacted by passengers after you've tapped to pick up*: This suggests there's no passenger in your car, even though you've confirmed in the app that you picked them up. This is frustrating for passengers, and overcharges them. Remember to only tap to pick up once your passenger is in your car.
*Cancelling too often*: Unless you have an emergency or safety concern, you should try to complete every ride you accept. Learn more about cancellations.
These put your driver account at risk, and violate the Lyft Terms of Service. Remember that you can review your feedback at any time in the Driver app. We value your contribution to our community and hope these reports will stop. However, if nothing changes, it could lead to an account suspension, and possible permanent deactivation of your Lyft driver account.
Thanks again,
The Lyft Team


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> I'll bet you exactly that is what it is.... The normal message is a lot less stalker-creepy to specifically mention declining rides rather than tapping the phone, but maybe they figure with the "phone tapping" message they can intimidate drivers into compliance by emphasizing safety rather than thinking drivers care about "keeping the platform running smoothly"
> 
> The normal message you get when rejecting the 25+ minute requests and only accepting close rides:
> 
> ...


JUST ANOTHER STALKER.
LIKE GOVERNMENT.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm about to send them a message saying, Dear Lyft it has been brought to our attention that you have not been paying your drivers for rides they have completed. Please know this puts you at risk of losing your platform privileges to operate in the United States. This does not follow Community standards and provides a poor experience to the driver.

This is after not getting paid for a ride I did last night and they refuse to pay me on it


----------



## CheepShot (May 11, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> I'm about to send them a message saying, Dear Lyft it has been brought to our attention that you have not been paying your drivers for rides they have completed. Please know this puts you at risk of losing your platform privileges to operate in the United States. This does not follow Community standards and provides a poor experience to the driver.
> 
> This is after not getting paid for a ride I did last night and they refuse to pay me on it


Doesn't Lyft have two days to pay or something like that? I am pretty sure you will get paid after the rider acknowledges the trip. Isn't it Lyft that gives a rider two days to pay?


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

CheepShot said:


> Doesn't Lyft have two days to pay or something like that? I am pretty sure you will get paid after the rider acknowledges the trip. Isn't it Lyft that gives a rider two days to pay?


I've been doing this over 5 years bro. I ain't getting paid. After Rider acknowledges trip? Because Lyft is going to contact them, asking them to acknowledge the trip? The passenger told me Lyft could contact them and I informed Lyft of this. I also had a screenshot of Google Maps when I dropped them off. At that point, you want to know what Lyft did? They closed out our conversation and the issue. Only after lying to me and telling me they can't adjust the fare because they didn't charge the passenger anything. You can't adjust something that doesn't exist. Which was a flat-out lie because I got paid $5.89. But yet they didn't charge the passenger anything? Sure bud. I'm not getting paid until I go into the Hub. A year-and-a-half ago I had to go into the hub to recoup $67 on three rides. This was after two months of battling with online support who refused to fix the issues.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Disclaimer: I haven’t read this thread.

In-app analytics could easily determine taps in app while the car is in motion. No camera or microphone are necessary, and those two methods of measurement would be the least reliable and most computationally expensive.

They’re almost certainly correlating when a driver interacts with or switches to the app with when a ride is active. Their measurements may be inaccurate but this is where such a measurement comes from.


----------



## CheepShot (May 11, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> I've been doing this over 5 years bro. I ain't getting paid. After Rider acknowledges trip? Because Lyft is going to contact them, asking them to acknowledge the trip? The passenger told me Lyft could contact them and I informed Lyft of this. I also had a screenshot of Google Maps when I dropped them off. At that point, you want to know what Lyft did? They closed out our conversation and the issue. Only after lying to me and telling me they can't adjust the fare because they didn't charge the passenger anything. You can't adjust something that doesn't exist. Which was a flat-out lie because I got paid $5.89. But yet they didn't charge the passenger anything? Sure bud. I'm not getting paid until I go into the Hub. A year-and-a-half ago I had to go into the hub to recoup $67 on three rides. This was after two months of battling with online support who refused to fix the issues.


Well sorry to hear that, I was merely suggesting that could be an answer to your problem. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Sonny06 (Sep 9, 2018)

RSALAS said:


> No I am not. I wonder if they are watching into your phone when we are waiting on rides and refreshing their app and Ubers or is it during in ride but how.
> That's all the email says. Anyone has gotten and maybe can tell us what happened or what's happening


They actually do I contact the support and said this was an invasion to my privacy. Then they argued blah blah blah well I told them I screenshot and final notice before it goes to my consul. Never got this message after that.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

RSALAS said:


> Anyone has gotten this email from Lyft recently as title states.
> Do they mean waiting or during ride? What are they doing? Anyone please


What are they doing? They're showing that their classification of drivers as independent contractors is a fraud.


----------



## 34-Methoxyzacko (May 9, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> Disclaimer: I haven't read this thread.
> 
> In-app analytics could easily determine taps in app while the car is in motion. No camera or microphone are necessary, and those two methods of measurement would be the least reliable and most computationally expensive.
> 
> They're almost certainly correlating when a driver interacts with or switches to the app with when a ride is active. Their measurements may be inaccurate but this is where such a measurement comes from.


Exactly what I was about to say (whether in those words or somewhat differently). Screen touch and response are the paramount functions of these [and most] apps; a very easy-to-monitor metric.
Now, as aside... this should make them also equally aware that one is not necessarily "toggling airplane mode and/or quitting the app" when it malfunctions (i.e., "Oops! Something went wrong. Try again in a couple minutes."). Alas, acknowledging THAT would make Lyft "less-nanny-like," which contradicts much of what Lyft IS.

{





























}
These are the permissions requested via the apps. I have not known Lyft to request either microphone or camera (assuming one uploads already-snapped documents vs. granting the app said permission upon initial setup). Likewise, if one never allows Uber said Mic permission, it seems not to ever again request it (I found that it tried to sneak it in via implying that "using my own cell plan" would not, in fact mask our number- it does). Opting into Uber's call system, something akin to Voice-Over-LTE... THEN the mic permission will appear.
For Android users, however...AFAIK- it's all there for the taking. &#129335;&#127995;


----------



## GumballWaterson (Jan 17, 2020)

34-Methoxyzacko said:


> Exactly what I was about to say (whether in those words or somewhat differently). Screen touch and response are the paramount functions of these [and most] apps; a very easy-to-monitor metric.
> Now, as aside... this should make them also equally aware that one is not necessarily "toggling airplane mode and/or quitting the app" when it malfunctions (i.e., "Oops! Something went wrong. Try again in a couple minutes."). Alas, acknowledging THAT would make Lyft "less-nanny-like," which contradicts much of what Lyft IS.
> 
> {
> ...


You do realize those are permissions allowed the driver while using the app (first line: Allow Lyft* Driver* To Access), not *Lyft. *Purposely very misleading, and really does not even work, it's your phone, it is there to make you believe you are in control. The TOS allows *Lyft* while you are using the App to access *any component* of your phone or device the *Lyft* app is installed, as to create a better ride experience for riders.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

GumballWaterson said:


> You do realize those are permissions allowed the driver while using the app (first line: Allow Lyft* Driver* To Access), not *Lyft. *Purposely very misleading, and really does not even work, it's your phone, it is there to make you believe you are in control. The TOS allows *Lyft* while you are using the App to access *any component* of your phone or device the *Lyft* app is installed, as to create a better ride experience for riders.


The app is called "Lyft Driver" to distinguish it in the App Store from "Lyft" (the passenger app).

As for permissions in the app, the app can only access the permissions that the user gives it. Apps are sandboxed so that they only have access to functions of the phone that are ultimately determined by the operating system (and to a lesser degree by a user of the app). The TOS is a legal document, but the user (the driver) still has to allow access to certain functions for the app to function as designed.


----------



## GumballWaterson (Jan 17, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> he app is called "Lyft Driver" to distinguish it in the App Store from "Lyft" (the passenger app).
> 
> As for permissions in the app, the app can only access the permissions that the user gives it. Apps are sandboxed so that they only have access to functions of the phone that are ultimately determined by the operating system (and to a lesser degree by a user of the app). The TOS is a legal document, but the user (the driver) still has to allow access to certain functions for the app to function as designed.


Yet, the _*AI*_ could not care what permissions you give, it will do what it wants, when it wants. If you wish to continue using the app, you will let it. If you turn off your phone repeatedly when the *AI* is listening, watching, etc., (*AI* will do this any time the app is on or off, driver logged in or off) you will find yourself waiting for a background check to complete (that never does complete) or just plain deactivated after a parking ticket. Do you think you have rights? NO RS companies say they are just protecting their assets (Riders) from drivers who take cash rides.* 
Note: *Once you turn on your phone or open the app, the node stays open until you shut off your phone or "Force Stop" or "Disable" the app in your phone settings.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

GumballWaterson said:


> Yet, the _*AI*_ could not care what permissions you give, it will do what it wants, when it wants. If you wish to continue using the app, you will let it. If you turn off your phone repeatedly when the *AI* is listening, watching, etc., (*AI* will do this any time the app is on or off, driver logged in or off) you will find yourself waiting for a background check to complete (that never does complete) or just plain deactivated after a parking ticket. Do you think you have rights? NO RS companies say they are just protecting their assets (Riders) from drivers who take cash rides.*
> Note: *Once you turn on your phone or open the app, the node stays open until you shut off your phone or "Force Stop" or "Disable" the app in your phone settings.


You should read up on app development and how apps get approved on the Apple App Store. Google's shop is a bit different, but they have API security control for apps, and they have rules in their shop as well.

If you're talking about how Uber and Lyft algorithms work outside the app, that has nothing to do with app permissions and device APIs.


----------



## GumballWaterson (Jan 17, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> You should read up on app development and how apps get approved on the Apple App Store. Google's shop is a bit different, but they have API security control for apps, and they have rules in their shop as well.
> 
> If you're talking about how Uber and Lyft algorithms work outside the app, that has nothing to do with app permissions and device APIs.


If you set permissions and it is done anyway, what are the permissions actually doing - NOTHING. If you need another app to control what another app is doing, then those permissions did NOTHING. With the exception of some built in by Apple, the *AI *rome freely on your device. If you try and stop them, you may not drive for RS for long after, call it a temper tantrum, it happens. Even the FCC has said the intrusion is not enforceable, because of the TOS and often the *AI* do not record or log the experience, but keep it in active memory and delete after it has been analyzed, only keeping anything of use that is found.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

GumballWaterson said:


> If you set permissions and it is done anyway, what are the permissions actually doing - NOTHING. If you need another app to control what another app is doing, then those permissions did NOTHING. With the exception of some built in by Apple, the *AI *rome freely on your device. If you try and stop them, you may not drive for RS for long after, call it a temper tantrum, it happens. Even the FCC has said the intrusion is not enforceable, because of the TOS and often the *AI* do not record or log the experience, but keep it in active memory and delete after it has been analyzed, only keeping anything of use that is found.


You don't "need another app". The controls for access to features like location, microphone, camera, and other device functions are built into the operating system.

If you don't believe that those permissions work, talk to some people who work in mobile app development.


----------



## GumballWaterson (Jan 17, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> You don't "need another app". The controls for access to features like location, microphone, camera, and other device functions are built into the operating system.
> 
> If you don't believe that those permissions work, talk to some people who work in mobile app development.


You mean talk to myself, I know all about how they work and the capability built in to an_ *AI*_ to over come them. I have worked on many different projects through my life, including the mother of all _*AI, *_*the*_* Aegis System,*_ Also I have worked on the NSA Priority America Initiative and North American War Command Group. All were *AI *driven. I worked with many components,15 years before they were in your phone. Everything I have written in these posts are true, but you go ahead and believe these corporations play by the rules.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

GumballWaterson said:


> You mean talk to myself, I know all about how they work and the capability built in to an_ *AI*_ to over come them. I have worked on many different projects through my life, including the mother of all _*AI, *_*the*_* Aegis System,*_ Also I have worked on the NSA Priority America Initiative and North American War Command Group. All were *AI *driven. I worked with many components,15 years before they were in your phone. Everything I have written in these posts are true, but you go ahead and believe these corporations play by the rules.


I disagree with what you're asserting because I don't think you're distinguishing between the algorithms employed by the app developers based on input from the app (GPS, in-app analytics, behavioral analysis) and what the operating system allows or prevents apps from doing.


----------



## GumballWaterson (Jan 17, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> GPS, in-app analytics, behavioral analysis


Just different names for the same things, except GPS witch has been around since the late 60's. Signals were bounced as telemetry from 12 military Geosynchronous Satellites Thanks to VSC and USC technology it now fits in your phone, where it used to take up a small closet worth of room, or on the back of one of those green troop carriers. You can deny all you want, it will not change the truth. All I have to say on the subject.

If you are driving, Stay Safe.


----------

