# I got in an accident



## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

So I was driving downtown Indy for the Final 4. Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light. All the sudden I get.slammed from behind by.a large.white pickup truck. I turn around just in time to see the guy throw his truck in reverse and take off. The cops found him a short time later and he was arrested for dui and leaving the scene of an accident. Aside from whiplash, a bruised neck from the.seatbelt, and a banged.up car I was ok. Has anyone else had an accident while going to pick up a rider? My advice is to carry a digital camera with a good flash to keep handy in case someone tries to take off on you. I was like a deer in the headlights when it happened, but next time I'll be ready to start snapping pics/taking video. I faxed in the claim form today and Im hoping things will be resolved quickly. I had only been an Uber driver for a couple of days when the accident happened.


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## gprimr1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Sorry to hear that.  

Hopefully everything works out. He's clearly at fault.


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## UberFrolic (Sep 18, 2014)

Digital camera? Fax forms ?

What is this the 90s lol

I use the camera on the iPhone to take pics.

You can even take pics while capturing video isn't that awesome? Very very helpful these days.


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## UberDesson (Jan 18, 2015)

Pls keep us informed about the insurance payouts.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

Jen C said:


> So I was driving downtown Indy for the Final 4. Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light. All the sudden I get.slammed from behind by.a large.white pickup truck. I turn around just in time to see the guy throw his truck in reverse and take off. The cops found him a short time later and he was arrested for dui and leaving the scene of an accident. Aside from whiplash, a bruised neck from the.seatbelt, and a banged.up car I was ok. Has anyone else had an accident while going to pick up a rider? My advice is to carry a digital camera with a good flash to keep handy in case someone tries to take off on you. I was like a deer in the headlights when it happened, but next time I'll be ready to start snapping pics/taking video. I faxed in the claim form today and Im hoping things will be resolved quickly. I had only been an Uber driver for a couple of days when the accident happened.


That sucks! Sorry to hear that. Hope the driver who hit you has insurance because if u report to yours they will cancel you & possibly not cover your costs. If you use Ubers insurance if driver does not have any $1,000 deductible on Ubers policy. Good luck!!


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

The guy who hit me has 28 arrest charges/citations on his record. So I'm not very hopeful about him having insurance. I'm also going to get some mace or something as I was a sitting duck in a bad area of town while waiting for the police.to show up. I was super.thankful when the police found him. I was on my way home and crying myself a river thinking they would never find him. I was so grateful I didn't say anything when the police.officer wacked my car with his car door. Lol. (it left a little smudge that wiped right off). I didn't really feel any pain or realize I was injured until the adrenaline rush calmed down. When you get hit from behind your neck snaps back, and then forward. Hence the bruise on my neck from the.seatbelt. I am 33, have been driving since I was 16, and this was my first accident. I had just paid $155 earlier in the.day to have both headlights, my rear turn signal, and wipers replaced. The uber people have been super nice and very helpful about everything. I will update on how things go. It's probably a good idea for everyone to keep a few claim.forms in the.vehicle.


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

Txchick said:


> That sucks! Sorry to hear that. Hope the driver who hit you has insurance because if u report to yours they will cancel you & possibly not cover your costs. If you use Ubers insurance if driver does not have any $1,000 deductible on Ubers policy. Good luck!!


Oh Lord I hope he does have insurance, especially now that you're telling me it's a $1000 deductible. I'm a single mom and uber is my only source of income. I can't afford childcare for 3 kids and thus why I do uber (I can drive when kids are in school or with their dad).


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Jen C said:


> The guy who hit me has 28 arrest charges/citations on his record. So I'm not very hopeful about him having insurance. I'm also going to get some mace or something as I was a sitting duck in a bad area of town while waiting for the police.to show up. I was super.thankful when the police found him. I was on my way home and crying myself a river thinking they would never find him. I was so grateful I didn't say anything when the police.officer wacked my car with his car door. Lol. (it left a little smudge that wiped right off). I didn't really feel any pain or realize I was injured until the adrenaline rush calmed down. When you get hit from behind your neck snaps back, and then forward. Hence the bruise on my neck from the.seatbelt. I am 33, have been driving since I was 16, and this was my first accident. I had just paid $155 earlier in the.day to have both headlights, my rear turn signal, and wipers replaced. The uber people have been super nice and very helpful about everything. I will update on how things go. It's probably a good idea for everyone to keep a few claim.forms in the.vehicle.


no matter how unethical.....why didnt you just report it to your insurance company? and leave Uber out of it (including the fact you work for them)
You seem to be having a good experience with Uber in this accident. But normally its not a nice experience to turn to Uber when an accident happens


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

I hope you're OK, Jen. 

This right here is the "rideshare" industry's biggest problem. Since you didn't have a passenger Uber's insurance likely won't cover you. This puts you in the position of committing insurance fraud by lying to your insurer or telling them the truth and having no coverage.

Insurance companies are slowly realizing that their claims are increasing and will adjust their business practices accordingly.


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## zMann (Feb 21, 2015)

It's sad, Wishing you all the best.


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

I actually didn't immediately turn it into uber insurance. I emailed them to make them aware of the.situation because I had to cancel on the rider I was on my way to pick up, and was afraid it would look bad and that my.rating would suffer. I'm not sure what you mean by unethical, all I know is that the accident was 100% not my fault. I can't help it if I was sitting at a stop light and some drunk idiot not paying attention plowed into me. None of us have any control in a situation like that.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Jen C said:


> I actually didn't immediately turn it into uber insurance. I emailed them to make them aware of the.situation because I had to cancel on the rider I was on my way to pick up, and was afraid it would look bad and that my.rating would suffer. I'm not sure what you mean by unethical, all I know is that the accident was 100% not my fault. I can't help it if I was sitting at a stop light and some drunk idiot not paying attention plowed into me. None of us have any control in a situation like that.


If your insurance company asks you directly if you were participating in ridesharing, what would you say?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Jen C said:


> I actually didn't immediately turn it into uber insurance. I emailed them to make them aware of the.situation because I had to cancel on the rider I was on my way to pick up, and was afraid it would look bad and that my.rating would suffer. I'm not sure what you mean by unethical, all I know is that the accident was 100% not my fault. I can't help it if I was sitting at a stop light and some drunk idiot not paying attention plowed into me. None of us have any control in a situation like that.


I think what Bart means by unethical is referring to reporting the accident to your personal insurance company, which most likely doesn't know about or cover your commercial driving, and pretending you were not engaged in such activity at the time of the accident. It has nothing to do with fault, which clearly that of the other driver in your case.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

LAndreas said:


> It's only fraud if they specifically ask. Most likely, and contrary to your constant "the sky is falling" posts, these things get resolved amicably, especially so here because there's really not an iota of fault in this accident with the Uber driver.


So you're recommending lying by omission? The point is the driver wouldn't have been on the road at all if she weren't engaging in commercial activity.



> And if I am advocating a "don't ask don't tell" approach to these insurance matters, it's because the insurance companies are big tankers and need some time to get the ship headed into a new direction. In the meantime, and until the appropriate insurance products come to market, us Uber contractors are making do with what we got, as best as we can.
> 
> Your constantly negative posts on all of these threads are starting to become obnoxious. If you are not actively driving for Uber at the moment, please don't post here.
> 
> ...


What a coward. You can't counter my argument with anything except recommending insurance fraud, so you put me on ignore. Pathetic.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Jen C said:


> I actually didn't immediately turn it into uber insurance. I emailed them to make them aware of the.situation because I had to cancel on the rider I was on my way to pick up, and was afraid it would look bad and that my.rating would suffer. I'm not sure what you mean by unethical, all I know is that the accident was 100% not my fault. I can't help it if I was sitting at a stop light and some drunk idiot not paying attention plowed into me. None of us have any control in a situation like that.


You are right, that there is no question of fault.

Here in Oz if a driver is tested and is under the influence of alcohol or drugs then their insurance company can refuse any claims. So a civil suit follows.

Where your Insurance company can get slippery is if they DO prove you were out UBERing then that is a commercial activity. If you only have private vehicle insurance then they can deny your claim.

Ridesharing has been a windfall for many Insurance companies. They accept premiums and if claim is made check available databases or ask drivers if they were out Ubering then deny their claim with no refund of premiums they took from you for useless cover.

The question is do you lie and seek a payout but risk a Fraud charge, or tell the truth and battle for some help from UBER

Good Luck


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Before defining what constitutes insurance policy fraud, I think each person needs to read carefully his or her policy, cover to cover including the definition section. Mine says that they can hold me to my statements on the original application, and failure to disclose changes in the use of covered vehicles is one example of misrepresentation or fraud.
Also read what is not covered under the description of each type of coverage. It will probably be a real eye opener.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Great here come the stupid debating to muddy up this thread. Let's keep the debate out of [email protected] c please keep us posted on how this all turns out with uber and your insurance company. It would be educational to see how you handle this and the end result so we can model our handling of similar situations in the future. Thanks for posting it is a huge help!


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

Jen C said:


> "The uber people...and very helpful..."


Tell me more of this phenomenon...

How did you handle? Did you call your insurance company?


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Jen C have they instructed you to try and obtain a copy of the police report? His insurance info (if any) will be there. But yes 28 convictions he may not have even had a licence.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> So you're recommending lying by omission? The point is the driver wouldn't have been on the road at all if she weren't engaging in commercial activity.
> 
> What a coward. You can't counter my argument with anything except recommending insurance fraud, so you put me on ignore. Pathetic.


 Sounds like "Denver Diane" is reincarnated.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> Jen C., since you were waiting for a ping, kind of "off duty" bcz you weren't contracted to provide a ride at the time, I wouldn't even have told Uber.


Jen C wrote "I had to cancel on the rider I was on my way to pick up, " So she was clearly in Period 2 . Uber is Primary in Period 2 nationwide. Jen C did the exact right thing even though it may cost her $1,000.00 she did the right and ethical thing. It's Uber's Liability no one but Uber should have to pay for it.

Well I mean the drunk should clearly pay for it but that is not looking likely. Uber Uninsured coverage shoud cover but not even sure if that will cover any of Jen's Medical bills. Would cover the passenger if she had one but not the driver I do not think? Jen C do you have your own medical coverage? Might have some deductible there as well.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

LAndreas said:


> Jen C., since you were waiting for a ping, kind of "off duty" bcz you weren't contracted to provide a ride at the time, I wouldn't even have told Uber. Just turned the app off, handled all that needed to be handled at the scene, then headed home and filed/follow up an incident report to my existing personal insurance company with the request for them to handle matters.


So not only are you recommending insurance fraud, you can't even read. She was on her way to pick up a passenger:

"Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light."

Clearly she was engaging in commercial activity at the time of her accident.



> That's what I wouldve done, I'm an active Uber driver, I would feel okay with that decision and let no cab driver tell you otherwise.
> 
> Don't read to much more on this thread. It's been high jacked and people are trying to make everything extremely complicated and worrying on here. You will find it'll be much easier actually dealing with your insurance company, to which you have reliably and faithfully paid your premiums to over all these years.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


Yeah, don't read anymore here, it will only depress you. The truth about ridesharing is fairly depressing.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Jen C said:


> So I was driving downtown Indy for the Final 4. Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light. All the sudden I get.slammed from behind by.a large.white pickup truck. I turn around just in time to see the guy throw his truck in reverse and take off. The cops found him a short time later and he was arrested for dui and leaving the scene of an accident. Aside from whiplash, a bruised neck from the.seatbelt, and a banged.up car I was ok. Has anyone else had an accident while going to pick up a rider? My advice is to carry a digital camera with a good flash to keep handy in case someone tries to take off on you. I was like a deer in the headlights when it happened, but next time I'll be ready to start snapping pics/taking video. I faxed in the claim form today and Im hoping things will be resolved quickly. I had only been an Uber driver for a couple of days when the accident happened.


If ever there was good reason to have a dual channel dashcam installed...


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Reset thread. Hi Jen. I am in the middle of the process and can tell you...


You were matched to a passenger and you were not at fault. First thing Uber will do is deactivate you until everything is settled
Because you were matched, the Uber insurance, James River, is primary for you. Do not contact your personal insurance company yet.
Get a copy of the police report
Find out from the police what the other guys insurance is
If the other guy has insurance then James River will tell you to contact the other insurance company first. If he does not have insurance then you deal with James River
Take your car to a car dealer's body shop to get a quote.
Ask the Insurance company to pay for the following
A. Lost Uber wages until you are reactivated.
B. "Diminished value" of your car because it's now been in an accident (it will be on Carfax now showing the accident)
C. Rental car if you need one while your car is in the shop
D. All medical expenses. Keep all your receipts.
E. Actual cost of the repair, do not allow them to pay you for the estimate amount Before it is all done and Uber ready again.

Ask for all this from James River if the other guy doesn't have insurance. Unless the other guys insurance pays, you will be stuck with the $1000 deductible and all your medical costs.

Depending on your personal insurance policy, if you put in a claim with them they may either deny the claim and drop you or pay the claim and drop you.

We are here for moral support. Uber and James River will say soothing things but will not hold your hand during this process. You are going to have to fight to get your car fixed and paid for by them.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> It's only fraud if they specifically ask. Most likely, and contrary to your constant "the sky is falling" posts, these things get resolved amicably, especially so here because there's really not an iota of fault in this accident with the Uber driver.
> 
> And if I am advocating a "don't ask don't tell" approach to these insurance matters, it's because the insurance companies are big tankers and need some time to get the ship headed into a new direction. In the meantime, and until the appropriate insurance products come to market, us Uber contractors are making do with what we got, as best as we can.
> 
> ...


If your policy has a commercial/livery exclusion, they don't HAVE to ask you, it is aready a stipulation of the coverage. Jesus, one does not have to be a disgruntled taxi driver to know this. They need only be an insured driver who enjoys low rates because their company does not absorb high risk commercial cabs under personal policies!


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

LAndreas said:


> Jen C., since you were waiting for a ping, kind of "off duty" bcz you weren't contracted to provide a ride at the time, I wouldn't even have told Uber. Just turned the app off, handled all that needed to be handled at the scene, then headed home and filed/follow up an incident report to my existing personal insurance company with the request for them to handle matters.
> 
> That's what I wouldve done, I'm an active Uber driver, I would feel okay with that decision and let no cab driver tell you otherwise.
> 
> ...


I had accepted a ride request and was enroute to pick up the rider.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Jen C said:


> So I was driving downtown Indy for the Final 4. Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light.





LAndreas said:


> Jen C., since you were waiting for a ping, kind of "off duty" bcz you weren't contracted to provide a ride at the time, I wouldn't even have told Uber.


Jen C was on an Active Ride at the time she was rear ended. Uber's Insurance is primary at this time. Her car damage coverage is also covered with $1,000 deductible.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> If you are not actively driving for Uber at the moment, please don't post here.





LAndreas said:


> You didn't disclose what makes you feel entitled to post in a forum for Uber drivers.


This forum has always been open to Anyone who has interest or a stake in TNC issues.
So please stop telling other forum members that they don't have a right to post here.

*Edit:* If you doubt veracity of my post, please ask forum Admin or Mods for guidance, rather than repeatedly posting that some forum members shouldn't be posting at all.
*Edit 2:* You are aware of my posts to UberOnSD. I'd challenged him to cite a single substantive post where he wasn't making clichéd *Off-Topic *comments ranting against the U.N., Regulators, Lawyers, Insurance Companies, Cab Companies & Cab Drivers. But I still didn't question his right to post anything as long as it was *On-Topic* to the thread.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Jen C was on an Active Ride at the time she was rear ended. Uber's Insurance is primary at this time. Her car damage coverage is also covered with $1,000 deductible.


Contingent on her having personal coll/comm, though. That's the rub for so many drivers :-(


Contingent comprehensive and collision insurance. If a ridesharing driver holds personal comprehensive and collision insurance this policy covers physical damage to that vehicle that occurs during a trip up to the actual cash value of the vehicle, for any reason, with a $1,000 deductible.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Sounds like "Denver Diane" is reincarnated.


Now that's just mean, Arnold.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> This forum has always been open to Anyone who has interest or a stake in TNC issues.
> So please stop telling other forum members that they don't have a right to post here.


I've always been more than forthcoming about my status. My interaction here has helped educate me on driver realities (critical during workgroup discussions and political battles), and my background and dedication to FACTS about the issues has helped me enlighten some drivers. As a bonus, my interactions have also broadened my horizons in regards to other industries and localities (cabs, NYC, LA, Sydney!!), AND I learned about cleaning with hydrogen peroxide (from Casandria !!! ) And that in itself was worth being blocked by a few, as it saved me mucho dinero!!!! And last but definitely not least, I have been honored to be a mentor to a few who have decided to start their own company, and I've gained a few employees and affiliates.


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## Casandria (Dec 20, 2014)

Wow! I missed a lot last night!

LAndreas I think it's ridiculous to think that this forum should be limited to Uber drivers who are currently driving. First of all, most Uber drivers have never done anything like this before so the knowledge from those who have been doing it for years should be treasured. Secondly, former Uber drivers have just as much, if not more, valuable advise in regards to Uber itself. Lastly, those who are considering driving, but aren't stupid enough to think they can just jump in their car and go need a place to come to for advise from both of the previously mentioned sets.

Tx rides Glad that hydrogen peroxide trick is working for you


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> Anyway, won't ever know because I hit ignore now on all the stooges on here and find it makes this forum usable yet again for its intended demographic: actual Uber people!


Has to be Dianne or her twin sister. Chock full of Ignore Happy DNA.

Don't agree with me, IGNORE. Post contrary opinions, IGNORE. Don't drive for Uber, IGNORE. Disgruntled, IGNORE.

I have learned more from the disgruntled drivers, still driving for Uber or not, Cabbies, former Cabbies and even disgruntled Limo Execs than I have ever learned from the people on here that pump sunshine all day.

Uber works fine for some people and doesn't for others. Deal with it.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Just out of curiosity did you tell your Insurance when you signed up that you were doing Rideshare activities? Did they ask you?

That's a question not part of the standard line of questioning when you are in an accident. At least not here. And asking you after the fact they would require something to tip them off.

A question like where were you going at the time of the accident is a fair question. And driving home is a fair answer.

I think a lot of the fear is "What if they ask". Fact is they don't ask unless something tips them off. And Uber is not going to provide that information to anyone.

They don't ask, you don't tell. That's the smart way to deal with it. Why are you going to help your insurance company deny your claim.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> That's Uber Insurance SunShit ( Sunshine + Bullshit). A Driver is responsible for truthfully reporting material facts, otherwise it's tantamount to insurance fraud.
> 
> I'm quite surprised that you've not taken a more proactive & Driver-Centric stance on Uber_Canada's Insurance, which is Contingent & Secondary to Drivers personal car insurance for ANY claim. Yes, even an injured pax would have to FIRST file a claim with the Driver's personal car insurance!
> 
> ...


Again you missed the point. I didn't say lie to your insurance. You are not lying when you are reporting the accident. Driving for Uber is not a cause of an accident. You were hit by a drunk driver. You had no paying customer in the car, that's what lively is. Personal driving and driving a paying passenger is what is in question.

We can keep going around in circles on the issue where neither you or I are experts on the situation. Your insurance asks you tell. Your insurance does not ask you don't need to involve Uber in the conversation unless you have a passenger in the car or while on the way to a passenger you have caused the accident and Uber was a direct result of that accident.

In this case Uber was not the direct result of the accident. Driver could have been hit regardless of the situation.

If you think because of Uber that individual would not have been there I can reverse it and say without Uber the person could have been involved in worse accident somewhere else and Uber saved that individual by diverting them away from harm. Fate has no legal standing in any of it. Only facts do.

Ubers Policy in Canada does not adequately cover drivers in Canada. I get that. But that does not mean they are not covered by their personal policy's. You need to do your homework and read your policy. Insurance companies are very general sometimes in their terms and in some cases very specific and include exceptions that Uber in a legal sense fall into.

I have explained this all before but you feel it's not relevant and it's a one size fits all approach. I continue to do more investigation on this and the more I uncover the more the "you are on personal you will be denied" argument statement is not always the case.

Insurance companies need to protect themselves. They will tell you outright you cant do rideshare. Then challenge the wording of the policy and you will get a different answer. "Well you can long as you don't do it like this or like that" No insurance company can go against what they have in writing. Read it and understand what is being said. Many will get into trouble and some will not if they know their legal rights ahead of time.

But in the end no one needs to take you on either. They can deny you as a customer saying they don't want to accept the risks and quote you some ridiculous policy cost.

Also it comes down to enforcement. Ask if it's in the best interest for them to deny the claim for an app on no passenger situation where you are not at fault. It's not in their best interest. They keep a customer and they close the case quickly. Car damage is never a concern. Long term care is and public involvement is.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Ubers Policy in Canada does not adequately cover drivers in Canada. I get that.


I'd already deleted my post, when you replied. Frankly, I don't have the time or the resources to battle Uber's Canadian insurance duplicity. But in case you need any help in this, please don't hesitate to ask.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> If your policy has a commercial/livery exclusion, they don't HAVE to ask you, it is aready a stipulation of the coverage. Jesus, one does not have to be a disgruntled taxi driver to know this. They need only be an insured driver who enjoys low rates because their company does not absorb high risk commercial cabs under personal policies!


So Andreas, now that TxRides, (who is not a taxi driver, from what I've read) has read you the riot act about insurance, has it finally sunk in?


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

LAndreas said:


> Yes, a disgruntled limo company owner will do just fine. Thanks for pointing out in another thread that you are one.
> 
> You didn't disclose what makes you feel entitled to post in a forum for Uber drivers.
> 
> ...


Wow. I think this is Diane's twin sister or cousin.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Uberdawg said:


> Has to be Dianne or her twin sister. Chock full of Ignore Happy DNA.
> 
> Don't agree with me, IGNORE. Post contrary opinions, IGNORE. Don't drive for Uber, IGNORE. Disgruntled, IGNORE.
> 
> ...


I agree. UBER works better for me when I drive on occasion. I get the occasional warnings for "inactivity" but I have no complaints about that.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I'd already deleted my post, when you replied. Frankly, I don't have the time or the resources to battle Uber's Canadian insurance duplicity. But in case you need any help in this, please don't hesitate to ask.


Thank you sir. As always a gentleman.

I know you been doing your best to help sway Uber to the right path. I'm on side with that. I don't think this cloak and dagger stuff that we need to do here for now is a long term solution. It's only a matter of time before the insurance companies change their wording to protect themselves. And Uber needs to be honest with individuals that their strategy is based on contract loopholes and terminology. And that even if they are right that does not mean that a driver will face some suffering because they want to prove their theories.

Full disclosure is the only way forward from both sides of the equation. Both Uber and the insurance companies. (And in writing in the policy)


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

So far from what I've read "Metro-mile" (at least in the US), seems like a good choice.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> So far from what I've read "Metro-mile" (at least in the US), seems like a good choice.


If it was here in Canada I would do everything in my power to promote it and would hope it becomes mandatory requirement for rideshare activities with Uber.

This is an amazing option we don't have in Canada.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> So Andreas, now that TxRides, (who is not a taxi driver, from what I've read) has read you the riot act about insurance, has it finally sunk in?


Some people don't care. If they screw themselves, I say "more power to them". But I will continue to tell new drivers what to look for, I will continue to alert them to the risks, even when those who are proud of cheating/lying tell them otherwise. By definition, all drivers are adults; so they can take risks, or take heed as they wish.

If I were truly an evil troll, I would not admit that I am a livery owner. Furthermore, I would encourage new drivers to do stupid things to put themselves at risk, to speed up the bad press.

HMmmmm ....now that I think about it, maybe those insurance scammers who accuse ME of mal intent are actually disgruntled livery or cab owners


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> Some people don't care. If they screw themselves, I say "more power to them". But I will continue to tell new drivers what to look for, I will continue to alert them to the risks, even when those who are proud of cheating/lying tell them otherwise. By definition, all drivers are adults; so they can take risks, or take heed as they wish.
> 
> If I were truly an evil troll, I would not admit that I am a livery owner. Furthermore, I would encourage new drivers to do stupid things to put themselves at risk, to speed up the bad press.
> 
> HMmmmm ....now that I think about it, maybe those insurance scammers who accuse ME of mal intent are actually disgruntled livery or cab owners


I agree. As I mentioned to action-jax in a previous post, the metro-mile that's starting in the west coast, looks like the best idea yet. I get tired of reading thru all these articles with the "ambiguous phrasings" about what is covered and what is not. I believe you should ask your insurance co. if it's ok to drive commercial. The problem is, even if Uber does provide coverage while the app is still on, a lot of the ins companies like geico, statefarm etc, still frown upon that.

Unfortunately it takes a tragedy like the little girl in SF getting killed, to find out that uber might not cover you even when the app is on without a pax in the car.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Thank you sir. As always a gentleman.
> 
> I know you been doing your best to help sway Uber to the right path. I'm on side with that. I don't think this cloak and dagger stuff that we need to do here for now is a long term solution. It's only a matter of time before the insurance companies change their wording to protect themselves. And Uber needs to be honest with individuals that their strategy is based on contract loopholes and terminology. And that even if they are right that does not mean that a driver will face some suffering because they want to prove their theories.
> 
> Full disclosure is the only way forward from both sides of the equation. Both Uber and the insurance companies. (And in writing in the policy)


AJ, I cannot speak on Canadian insurance, because I am not familiar with how it works up there. But I do know that the insurance companies we have talked to in the last couple of years have been perfectly clear about not covering commercial use. I really do not see where this is duplicitous on the insurance side. Not that I am a major defender of insurance companies, but I do understand why they refused to cover commercial use for personal vehicles. I have heard some pretty extensive explanations of risk assessments for the industry, in fact, some of the risks they explained made me shudder about our own company. Even with commercial coverage.
"Technology while driving" keeps me awake at night :-(


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> I agree. As I mentioned to action-jax in a previous post, the metro-mile that's starting in the west coast, looks like the best idea yet. I get tired of reading thru all these articles with the "ambiguous phrasings" about what is covered and what is not. I believe you should ask your insurance co. if it's ok to drive commercial. The problem is, even if Uber does provide coverage while the app is still on, a lot of the ins companies like geico, statefarm etc, still frown upon that.
> 
> Unfortunately it takes a tragedy like the little girl in SF getting killed, to find out that uber might not cover you even when the app is on without a pax in the car.


Uber's Contingent collision/comprehensive coverage is, by far, one of the most corrupt things I've witnessed up close. They know damn good and well that your personal comprehensive/collision will not only reject your claim, they will possibly reject you permanently. I know they know this, I have heard from executives how they have been advised of this all along. I have seen the announcements, I have seen the letters. Yet, this company continues to lure naïve and often desperate drivers into their net of deception. WHY??? They could have carved a niche, they could have made a long-term solution. Instead of hiring lawyers to fight fees, they could have actually provided decent training for drivers, and a solid insurance plan. Eventually, they will run out of desperate drivers, and be left with a sorry lot that can't even get hired by the most deplorable cab company. But the C suite and early investors will have already cashed out by then.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Reset thread. Hi Jen. I am in the middle of the process and can tell you...
> 
> 
> You were matched to a passenger and you were not at fault. First thing Uber will do is deactivate you until everything is settled
> ...


...comprehensive and accurate post by the Umbrella. Your best hope is to keep your insurance agency out of the picture, if at all possible.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> Uber's Contingent collision/comprehensive coverage is, by far, one of the most corrupt things I've witnessed up close. They know damn good and well that your personal comprehensive/collision will not only reject your claim, they will possibly reject you permanently. I know they know this, I have heard from executives how they have been advised of this all along. I have seen the announcements, I have seen the letters. Yet, this company continues to lure naïve and often desperate drivers into their net of deception. WHY??? They could have carved a niche, they could have made a long-term solution. Instead of hiring lawyers to fight fees, they could have actually provided decent training for drivers, and a solid insurance plan. Eventually, they will run out of desperate drivers, and be left with a sorry lot that can't even get hired by the most deplorable cab company. But the C suite and early investors will have already cashed out by then.


I guess in a nut-shell, it all boils down to them keeping their expenses to a bare minimum. Moral or immoral. It's pretty obvious they let a lot of drivers with spotty backgrounds, slip thru the cracks on purpose. That's one of the explanations to why they oppose to the cities themselves doing it. The other is the fees they charge the drivers for doing the checks for them. One lady (a reformed exconvict with a felony conviction) purposely signed up for uber to see if she would pass the background check, (which she did).

I think all in all we'll be watching this in the next couple of years on "American Greed".


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> ...comprehensive and accurate post by the Umbrella. Your best hope is to keep your insurance agency out of the picture, if at all possible.


Unfortunately, you cannot seek comprehensive or collision from uber unless you have sought it from your own company first. That is where the bullet hits the bone for many. :-(


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> AJ, I cannot speak on Canadian insurance, because I am not familiar with how it works up there. But I do know that the insurance companies we have talked to in the last couple of years have been perfectly clear about not covering commercial use. I really do not see where this is duplicitous on the insurance side. Not that I am a major defender of insurance companies, but I do understand why they refused to cover commercial use for personal vehicles. I have heard some pretty extensive explanations of risk assessments for the industry, in fact, some of the risks they explained made me shudder about our own company. Even with commercial coverage.
> "Technology while driving" keeps me awake at night :-(


I think it comes down to how Uber is being used. Many people are using Uber to make a living and for sure that is commercial coverage. I think that's the area where many people lie with their insurance companies. For them they are looking at an $700 - $1000 policy per month to be able to achieve this. No way you can do Uber on that kind of costs. Taxi's right now have a hard time making ends met with those costs and they are pulling in twice as much in fares + Tips.

Where the grey area lies is for the individual who is doing this part time. 10 Hours a week to supplement their existing commute. Many companies I called and asked about doing this they were ok with accepting reasonable compensation for gas, meals, maintenance, and vehicle costs. This is to promote true ride sharing/Carpooling. (For example if I load up 3 others in my car and we drive to Montreal on a 5 hour excursion twice a week) I would be covered under my insurance for that. (At least most Policy's say those things in black and white)

The issue comes when you are using Uber to run a full time income. That's what they are saying no on. Their issue is how to validate a 10 hour user from a 60 hour user. They can't break it down. And saying do you drive for Uber and how much. Everyone is going to say 10 hours. No one can validate it.

In my very own policy it states in black and white *"I Can not take any passenger or parcel for compensation"

This is why I have asked my insurance company to place a clause in my policy that "I can accept reasonable expense money related to Carpooling or related trip expenses"*

I also said that the nature of the individuals will be both family AND Strangers who will be sourced from a variety of methods including one time rides via telephone and apps. (Like Facebook, craigslist and kijiji AND OTHERS)

Uber provides me with Data I can share with my insurance company where I can show the trips taken and that it follows my normal course of commuting.

You see Insurance companies can't control it so they need to stop it up here. But if you are forthcoming and work within the system presented you can open up your doors a bit.

Keep in mind I did this when Uber went live and no one ever knew it was activated yet up here and I am sure if I went this route again I would be shut down. Till then I have an out.

The real question is when does it become truly commercial and when it is advanced car pooling.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Some people don't care. If they screw themselves, I say "more power to them". But I will continue to tell new drivers what to look for, I will continue to alert them to the risks, even when those who are proud of cheating/lying tell them otherwise. By definition, all drivers are adults; so they can take risks, or take heed as they wish.
> 
> If I were truly an evil troll, I would not admit that I am a livery owner. Furthermore, I would encourage new drivers to do stupid things to put themselves at risk, to speed up the bad press.
> 
> HMmmmm ....now that I think about it, maybe those insurance scammers who accuse ME of mal intent are actually disgruntled livery or cab owners


Andreas point is valid but a but confused

You are probably one the few that can guide UBER drivers in general

But UBER has a way to make them belive we are enemy's ( some belive it )
I wonder what side is UBER really on when :
Deactivation


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> I don't ignore people who, even consistently, voice opposing opinions to mine in a public forum. Over time you get to know the handles of the frequent insightful posters and you get to respect them, especially if you don't agree.
> 
> You also get to recognize the handles of the pathetic whiners, who apparently once tried Ubering, couldn't make it work, but still have this void in their lives and keep posting the ever same unhelpful crybaby shite. Have you really, really got nothing better to do with your lifes? You certifiably failed, even in this? Yes, your advice really ain't all that helpful then.
> I'm excluding people like Cassandria, who once drove, I guess, left for personal reasons, and has good posts all over. I'm referring to the losers who I'm now ignoring, and trust me, following this forum without wading through the daily drivel has become so much easier.
> ...


Belive me we are with you , yes there are some trolls here but it's you job to filter them out .
I don't think there are sides based on affiliation, there are sides on ideas


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Belive me we are with you , yes there are some trolls here but it's you job to filter them out .
> I don't think there are sides based on affiliation, there are sides on ideas


I've networked with a bunch of drivers for years , we all have changed companies numerous time yet we still network ( even while in rival companies)

Companies use us. 
The "driver brotherhood " has outlasted all else

Some of the first companies I workrd for are no longer aroud


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Belive me we are with you , yes there are some trolls here but it's you job to filter them out .
> I don't think there are sides based on affiliation, there are sides on ideas


At the end of the day, we are all part of large city ground transportation services. I've already employed a couple of former drivers who were justifiably concerned once they learned the facts about the insurance. If FACTS cause a driver to stop driving, I'm unapologetic for sharing those facts. Once accident can screw a driver irreparably.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> At the end of the day, we are all part of large city ground transportation services. I've already employed a couple of former drivers who were justifiably concerned once they learned the facts about the insurance. If FACTS cause a driver to stop driving, I'm unapologetic for sharing those facts. Once accident can screw a driver irreparably.


I just got hit with news from LAX !!!!! 
I added a SUV 
Wait for it...............................

I need general liability on top of the 750k commercial auto 
My agent is working on a 1mil umbrella 
Wonder how much that is going to cost ????
But what can I do


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> I just got hit with news from LAX !!!!!
> I added a SUV
> Wait for it...............................
> 
> ...


We avg Appx 210/mo per for our 1mill policies


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> I've networked with a bunch of drivers for years , we all have changed companies numerous time yet we still network ( even while in rival companies)
> 
> Companies use us.
> The "driver brotherhood " has outlasted all else
> ...


Oh yeah! We are "friendly" affiliates with at least 70% of the operators around town.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> We avg Appx 210/mo per for our 1mill policies


Is that on top of commercial auto?
Or does general liability supercede auto ?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Actually it makes sence got to be on top of auto because of amont NVM my question


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Actually it makes sence got to be on top of auto because of amont NVM my question


With that figure im going to aroud 6200.00 per year 
Whooooooopppppppssssss!!!!!!!!


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> ...comprehensive and accurate post by the Umbrella. Your best hope is to keep your insurance agency out of the picture, if at all possible.


And how is it possible when James River Insurance coverage DEPENDS on verification that Jen was COVERED at the time of the accident by her personal insurance carrier? That verification is obtained FROM her personal insurance carrier, the claims department, or an adjuster to the claim, even filing a report of a not-at-fault accident. Every insured must by the terms of the insurance policy contract report every accident. INCLUDING THE NOT-AT-FAULT. In order to release a verification that Jen WAS COVERED at the time of the accident the personal insurance carrier will ask ALL the details of the accident from the reporter/verifier. That is when it will learn that at the time of the accident Jen was involved in business activities involving transporting passengers for hire.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Is that on top of commercial auto?
> Or does general liability supercede auto ?


It is all together . What kind of insurance hell does LAX put you guys through?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

For my town car 750K comercial auto ( same for cpuc) 
Added 2007 suburban got letter saying I need general liability for the suburban ( pasenger capacity they say ( cpuc does not require general liability)


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> For my town car 750K comercial auto ( same for cpuc)
> Added 2007 suburban got letter saying I need general liability for the suburban ( pasenger capacity they say ( cpuc does not require general liability)


That's an LAX req?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> That's an LAX req?


Yes LAX only 
Plus get this I'm only swapping vehicles 
Town car or retiring 
I'm been charged for the town car @ 4100.00 per year prorated till the suburban is permitted by LAX
DROP OFFS SUBURBAN 
PICK UPS TOWN CAR


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Reset thread. Hi Jen. I am in the middle of the process and can tell you...
> 
> 
> You were matched to a passenger and you were not at fault. First thing Uber will do is deactivate you until everything is settled
> ...


Hi Sacto,

Has Uber/ James River asked you to sign a confidentiality clause in regards to the negotiated outcome?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Personal driving and driving a paying passenger is what is in question.
> 
> In this case Uber was not the direct result of the accident. Driver could have been hit regardless of the situation.
> 
> If you think because of Uber that individual would not have been there I can reverse it and say without Uber the person could have been involved in worse accident somewhere else and Uber saved that individual by diverting them away from harm. Fate has no legal standing in any of it. Only facts do


That fresh Canadian air really has a way of clearing the mind right?

Isn't Insurance a safety net provided to a customer against agreed set of circumstances? There are consequences to certain driving behaviours which end up in pain and damage.

In this instance Jen was on her way to a Passenger, directed by UBER to provide a Hire and Reward service where both parties profit.

The consequences to the other guy hitting Jen has been arrest and charges and most likely his policy will deny his claim (if covered).

Actuaries designing any insurance policy factor in vehicle usage and increased exposure to risk for commercial vehicles.

A delivery Van can be parked outside a drop off for 5 mins and have telegraph pole fall on it (happened to me). It's damage is a consequence of whatever forced the pole down, and the Van carrying out a commercial function INCREASING its exposure to risk.

If she wasn't a Uber driver and had a similar accident then ITS circumstances would be looked at independently of every other policy holder and judged accordingly.

This is a nightmare scenario for Jen, UBER promised a way of helping her financially. Here she has suffered personally and financially in this commercial pursuit. I hope that UBER and its Insurance Company is nice to her.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Again you missed the point. I didn't say lie to your insurance. You are not lying when you are reporting the accident. Driving for Uber is not a cause of an accident. You were hit by a drunk driver. You had no paying customer in the car, that's what lively is. Personal driving and driving a paying passenger is what is in question.
> 
> We can keep going around in circles on the issue where neither you or I are experts on the situation. Your insurance asks you tell. Your insurance does not ask you don't need to involve Uber in the conversation unless you have a passenger in the car or while on the way to a passenger you have caused the accident and Uber was a direct result of that accident.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people believe that livery driving invalidates most if not all personal insurance policies. That's about it. It wouldn't matter if the person was logged in or not, in period 1, 2 or 3...... If you are or have used that car for livery, you you don't have insurance.

Trying to pull the wool over the eyes of an insurance company is pretty damn risky. They have a building full of lawyers paid to do nothing but beat you. If, during the process of sorting things out, your insurance company finds out you have been driving that car for livery at any time, you are going to wish you made a couple different choices in a big hurry.

The accident was serious enough that a ride had to be cancelled and things were reported to Uber. Uber's coverage on her car, as stated is contingent upon her having insurance (I'd assume valid). There is a hell of a good chance that James River themselves will be giving her provider a call isn't there? Forget about hiding it from them, the very people who tell there drivers they don't need anything more than personal insurance- oh, just don't tell them, they don't play by those rules.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> This forum has always been open to Anyone who has interest or a stake in TNC issues.
> So please stop telling other forum members that they don't have a right to post here.
> 
> *Edit:* If you doubt veracity of my post, please ask forum Admin or Mods for guidance, rather than repeatedly posting that some forum members shouldn't be posting at all.
> *Edit 2:* You are aware of my posts to UberOnSD. I'd challenged him to cite a single substantive post where he wasn't making clichéd *Off-Topic *comments ranting against the U.N., Regulators, Lawyers, Insurance Companies, Cab Companies & Cab Drivers. But I still didn't question his right to post anything as long as it was *On-Topic* to the thread.


This formum is an exclusive private club. Everyone has to pay $400 a month for the privilege of posting on this forum. Wait&#8230; Am I the only one that pays to post on this forum? Are you telling me that just any shmoe can wander in here and say whatever they want? I'm shocked. Shocked I say. I thought this was a private club not an anonymous Internet forum.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hi Sacto,
> 
> Has Uber/ James River asked you to sign a confidentiality clause in regards to the negotiated outcome?


So far they're just blowing me off. Told me to come back if the other guy's insurance doesn't pay up.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> So far they're just blowing me off. Told me to come back if the other guy's insurance doesn't pay up.


"Thanks for the ride, lady!!!!!"


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jen C said:


> I had only been an Uber driver for a couple of days when the accident happened.


So VERY sorry and hope you're ok... get some good P/T / massage to keep your' neck and shoulders loose!

And please do follow up here and let us know how Uber handles this for you!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jen C said:


> I'm a single mom and uber is my only source of income. I can't afford childcare for 3 kids and thus why I do uber (I can drive when kids are in school or with their dad).


oh lord... you' are exactly the kind of driver Uber wants -
so easily 'trapped' into thinking your making money when in fact you're spending money to build Uber's brand and bring them revenue.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jen C said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by unethical,... I can't help it if I was sitting at a stop light and some drunk idiot not paying attention plowed into me. None of us have any control in a situation like that.


That's not how insurance companies look at it. They say that if you weren't driving Ride-Share (using your vehicle for commercial purposes) you wouldn't have been there and wouldn't have been hit in the first place - and that being the case, you did have 100% control. And you have chosen to drive without commercial insurance - and your personal insurance does not cover you if you're driving ride-share. THAT is what the 'unethical' thing is about. *And sadly, MOST of us are in the same boat*.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

MikeB said:


> And how is it possible when James River Insurance coverage DEPENDS on verification that Jen was COVERED at the time of the accident by her personal insurance carrier? That verification is obtained FROM her personal insurance carrier, the claims department, or an adjuster to the claim, even filing a report of a not-at-fault accident. Every insured must by the terms of the insurance policy contract report every accident. INCLUDING THE NOT-AT-FAULT. In order to release a verification that Jen WAS COVERED at the time of the accident the personal insurance carrier will ask ALL the details of the accident from the reporter/verifier. That is when it will learn that at the time of the accident Jen was involved in business activities involving transporting passengers for hire.


....well then.....looks like Jen is ****ed...


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

MikeB said:


> And how is it possible when James River Insurance coverage DEPENDS on verification that Jen was COVERED at the time of the accident by her personal insurance carrier? That verification is obtained FROM her personal insurance carrier, the claims department, or an adjuster to the claim, even filing a report of a not-at-fault accident. Every insured must by the terms of the insurance policy contract report every accident. INCLUDING THE NOT-AT-FAULT. In order to release a verification that Jen WAS COVERED at the time of the accident the personal insurance carrier will ask ALL the details of the accident from the reporter/verifier. That is when it will learn that at the time of the accident Jen was involved in business activities involving transporting passengers for hire.


Or Uber just could say to the driver please send over a copy or your policy terms / latest bill showing that you have collision coverage for your car. They accept that as proof and cover Jen. They do not verify it with her company because they are not stupid and know if word got out they did that no one would drive for them. Fact is they have covered many accidents without notifying the personal insurance companies. Sometimes PIP's find out but it is never from Uber. Once the Liability in period's 2 and 3 went primary they stated there would be no notification of personal insurance for collision. But they still want proof you have it, if you are not going to protect your assets they are not going to either.


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

Worcester Sauce said:


> ....well then.....looks like Jen is ****ed...


I am feeling very ****ed right now. Drove 12 hours Wednesday for $58. Same today. No way I'll be able to afford the $1000 deductible.


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> oh lord... you' are exactly the kind of driver Uber wants -
> so easily 'trapped' into thinking your making money when in fact you're spending money to build Uber's brand and bring them revenue.


I'm starting to realize this...


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Jen C said:


> I am feeling very ****ed right now. Drove 12 hours Wednesday for $58. Same today. No way I'll be able to afford the $1000 deductible.


I might have missed it: Are you driving in your wrecked car? Or did you have another?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

A question to ask James River is *if* they collect from the other driver or his insurance, do they share on a prorated basis with you to cover the deductible. My AAA policy pays me back first, then pays themselves back what they have laid out to fix my car. But some companies prorate it, so if you have $2000.00 in damage, and they are collecting slowly from the other guy, they would split 50-50 with you until you each get your $1000.00 paid.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

James River told me to go after the other guys insurance and leave them, James River, alone. They don't do squat unless you force them to.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Jen C said:


> I am feeling very ****ed right now. Drove 12 hours Wednesday for $58. Same today. No way I'll be able to afford the $1000 deductible.


Do you and Worcester Sauce know each other?


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Jen C said:


> Oh Lord I hope he does have insurance, especially now that you're telling me it's a $1000 deductible. I'm a single mom and uber is my only source of income. I can't afford childcare for 3 kids and thus why I do uber (I can drive when kids are in school or with their dad).


^^^
Well, as I usually do with people on this board who have some hard luck.... I'm sending out some positive vibes and hope that my WiFi router picks them up and sends them your way. 
Yeah, it's a stupid comment, but who knows? 
Very best of luck to you on this one. I really mean it!


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## brikosig (Dec 16, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> no matter how unethical.....why didnt you just report it to your insurance company? and leave Uber out of it (including the fact you work for them)
> You seem to be having a good experience with Uber in this accident. But normally its not a nice experience to turn to Uber when an accident happens


Unfortunately Bart is right. If there's no pax in your car.... and you're certain that the other driver is at fault... ALWAYS put the claim into your personal insurance company. Here's why...
- You do NOT pay a deductible if the other driver is determined to be at fault. The insurance deductible is paid by the person who is at fault, paid to Their own insur. company. You're insurance company is also not raise your rates..... the other guy's rates go up.
- If the other driver (who is at fault) has no/has insufficient insurance.... you're own personal insurance (un-insured/under-insured coverage) will pay for you/your car. This also does not require you to pay a deductible and will not cause your rates to go up.
- As we've seen from the posts here.... if you're in any kind of an accident there's a VERY high likelihood that the unber-nazis are going to force you to notify your insurance company..... most likely getting you cancelled or at least having your rates skyrocket.

Yes.... it is unethical to put a claim into your own insur. company when you're technically covered by the uber-nazi crappy insurance.... but hey-too bad... the insurance company ROUTINELY share rate and driver info between competing companies.... that is a fact. The insurance companies also play the political game to get their rates raised in most states. They ROUTINELY work against us as their customers. But yes, you Will have to lie to them if they ask if you drive for the uber-nazis.

Lastly.... I was in an accident last week, I was not driving for uber/lyft... The accident was a small little fender-bender and was my fault. When I spoke with my insurance company they did not ask me any questions about ridesharing. My policy clearly stipulates that rideshare driving is not covered.


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## burnlord (Nov 23, 2014)

Jen C said:


> So I was driving downtown Indy for the Final 4. Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light. All the sudden I get.slammed from behind by.a large.white pickup truck. I turn around just in time to see the guy throw his truck in reverse and take off. The cops found him a short time later and he was arrested for dui and leaving the scene of an accident. Aside from whiplash, a bruised neck from the.seatbelt, and a banged.up car I was ok. Has anyone else had an accident while going to pick up a rider? My advice is to carry a digital camera with a good flash to keep handy in case someone tries to take off on you. I was like a deer in the headlights when it happened, but next time I'll be ready to start snapping pics/taking video. I faxed in the claim form today and Im hoping things will be resolved quickly. I had only been an Uber driver for a couple of days when the accident happened.


Just get one of those video cameras you can put on the visor. you can use some to record both forward and the back seat. This can help you to prove your case if you hit someone, or if someone damages your interior/ decides to say you groped them.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

BarackObama said:


> Just get one of those video cameras you can put on the visor. you can use some to record both forward and the back seat. This can help you to prove your case if you hit someone, or if someone damages your interior/ decides to say you groped them.


Your avatar sucks! And if somebody wanted to put up some Avatar of one of those misanthrope Repubs I would say the same. Like that of the weasel looking Canadien Teddy Cruz. What is with all the New Members lately coming forth all of a sudden with their women hating,homophobic. i wanna kill something while packin right wing rants? I guess it is true , driver quality is suffering big time.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> Your avatar sucks! And if somebody wanted to put up some Avatar of one of those misanthrope Repubs I would say the same. Like that of the weasle looking Canadien Teddy Cruz. What is with all the New Members lately coming forth all of a sudden with their women hating,homophobic. i wanna kill something while packin right wing rants? I guess it is true , driver quality is suffering big time.


....wow...I'm gonna follow you...


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

I was a 


LAndreas said:


> *It's only fraud if they specifically ask.* Most likely, and contrary to your constant "the sky is falling" posts, these things get resolved amicably, especially so here because there's really not an iota of fault in this accident with the Uber driver.
> 
> And if I am advocating a "don't ask don't tell" approach to these insurance matters, it's because the insurance companies are big tankers and need some time to get the ship headed into a new direction. In the meantime, and until the appropriate insurance products come to market, us Uber contractors are making do with what we got, as best as we can.
> 
> ...


claims adjuster about 20 years back. We used to take recorded phone statements with about an 8 page questionnaire when investigating accidents. We asked where they were going, if they were working, etc. Just a heads-up to those who may get involved in an accident.


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## Kappa21 (Mar 18, 2015)

Question - so how does the Insurance work? 
Is everyone under the insuance? What happens if im a driver but not on the system. Do i still benefit from the insurance? :? How does that work?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Kappa21 said:


> Question - so how does the Insurance work?
> Is everyone under the insuance? What happens if im a driver but not on the system. Do i still benefit from the insurance? :? How does that work?


Check some other posts. I'm sure it's been answered a million times.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> What is with all the New Members lately coming forth all of a sudden with their women hating,homophobic. i wanna kill something while packin right wing rants? I guess it is true , driver quality is suffering big time.


Tell me about it. So much hate around here.

djino


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> James River told me to go after the other guys insurance and leave them, James River, alone. They don't do squat unless you force them to.


 A claims adjuster from JR called today and left me a message telling me to find out if the other guy has insurance and if they are going to pay. Also wanted my version of what happened, which leads me to believe they haven't read the claims form or incident report I faxed in. I called the police department and they aren't showing any kind of insurance listed for this guy, and basically I can pay $5 to get the full police report on the accident. Which may or may not list the info I need. This whole situation has been very upsetting. I actually gave a ride to a former uber exec the other night who said "uber is making money hands over fist off you drivers". If that is true then why are we being stuck with a $1000 deductible? I'm going down to the city county building tomorrow to get the report....but feeling super helpless


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Jen C said:


> A claims adjuster from JR called today and left me a message telling me to find out if the other guy has insurance and if they are going to pay. Also wanted my version of what happened, which leads me to believe they haven't read the claims form or incident report I faxed in. I called the police department and they aren't showing any kind of insurance listed for this guy, and basically I can pay $5 to get the full police report on the accident. Which may or may not list the info I need. This whole situation has been very upsetting. I actually gave a ride to a former uber exec the other night who said "uber is making money hands over fist off you drivers". If that is true then why are we being stuck with a $1000 deductible? I'm going down to the city county building tomorrow to get the report....but feeling super helpless


I feel bad for you, Jen, and I appreciate you keeping us informed. I hope you get the recompense you deserve from James River.

I also hope that your story, and stories like yours, will serve as a cautionary tale for anyone who is underestimating the risks of driving for a living.

Thank goodness only your car was damaged.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Jen C said:


> A claims adjuster from JR called today and left me a message telling me to find out if the other guy has insurance and if they are going to pay. Also wanted my version of what happened, which leads me to believe they haven't read the claims form or incident report I faxed in. I called the police department and they aren't showing any kind of insurance listed for this guy, and basically I can pay $5 to get the full police report on the accident. Which may or may not list the info I need. This whole situation has been very upsetting. I actually gave a ride to a former uber exec the other night who said "uber is making money hands over fist off you drivers". If that is true then why are we being stuck with a $1000 deductible? I'm going down to the city county building tomorrow to get the report....but feeling super helpless


Funny you mention that $1000 deductible. The $1000 deductible is the least of it. For the most part, James River's role is about limiting Uber's liability should one of their partners have an at fault that hurts someone. That is really what it is geared toward.

Uber, in my opinion very much misrepresents the insurance reality as it stands. What you are experiencing is very unfortunate and I wish you the best of luck.

I wish people pre signing up for Uber had a better understanding of the insurance issues. Metro Mile is on everyone's minds at this moment. Can someone with an MM policy hope to avoid this kind of trouble? I doubt it given the structure of their policy. Most taxi companies, if I had to guess don't have collision. It would make things far too expensive. Taxi companies have mechanics often and require drivers to pay a bond which they lose if they bang up a car. Usually, that money goes into an account and draws interest. When your taxi driving days are over, you get bond plus interest back.

Good luck. If you keep Ubering........ once this is over and dealt with, try looking into commercial insurance with collision and a $500 deductible. It will be expensive, it may not be something you want to do, but you would have peace of mind. Sort of.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

brikosig said:


> Unfortunately Bart is right. If there's no pax in your car.... and you're certain that the other driver is at fault... ALWAYS put the claim into your personal insurance company. Here's why...
> - You do NOT pay a deductible if the other driver is determined to be at fault. The insurance deductible is paid by the person who is at fault, paid to Their own insur. company. You're insurance company is also not raise your rates..... the other guy's rates go up.
> - If the other driver (who is at fault) has no/has insufficient insurance.... you're own personal insurance (un-insured/under-insured coverage) will pay for you/your car. This also does not require you to pay a deductible and will not cause your rates to go up.
> - As we've seen from the posts here.... if you're in any kind of an accident there's a VERY high likelihood that the unber-nazis are going to force you to notify your insurance company..... most likely getting you cancelled or at least having your rates skyrocket.
> ...


There is a huge fatal flaw with this advise. It is only likely to be a clear choice in hindsight often enough. If and when you are in an accident, there is no control over how it is going to play out or who is going to be hurt.

There are some scenarios where James River is going to need to step in and part of their protocol seems to be that they contact your personal insurance provider. Jen may have been able to play this accident with a bit more savvy perhaps which might have saved her a grand. That seems reasonable. But where she goes from here is more important. If you were in her shoes, would you keep driving with personal coverage/without disclosure?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Jen, this may be further down the road, but there might be a couple of options to possibly get reimbursed for your JR deductible. The first would be to get in touch ASAP with the district attorney's office and ask if you can testify against the other driver if there is a court case ( he may plea bargain) or write a letter to the judge who would approve a plea bargain, asking for restitution. They should be able to advise you on the best way to go. If that fails, you can go to Small Claims Court. But that might have to wait until the guy is out of jail. Some places have a victim's relief fund, but I don't know if property damage would qualify.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

*http://www.jamesriverins.com/claims.aspx*

*Claims*
*By FAX:* 
(804) 420-1058, Attention: Claims Department

*By E-mail: [email protected]

Online: Login to the Broker Access Area

By Mail: Claims Department
James River Insurance Company
P.O. Box 27648
Richmond, VA 23261

Street Address for 
overnight deliveries: Claims Department
James River Insurance Company
6641 West Broad Street, Suite 300 
Richmond, VA 23230*


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> James River told me to go after the other guys insurance and leave them, James River, alone. They don't do squat unless you force them to.


...did your own insurance company get involved in any way (yet)?


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## Hotep31 (Jan 24, 2015)

Jen C said:


> So I was driving downtown Indy for the Final 4. Was on my way to pick up my.last rider at 3:30am and was stopped at a red light. All the sudden I get.slammed from behind by.a large.white pickup truck. I turn around just in time to see the guy throw his truck in reverse and take off. The cops found him a short time later and he was arrested for dui and leaving the scene of an accident. Aside from whiplash, a bruised neck from the.seatbelt, and a banged.up car I was ok. Has anyone else had an accident while going to pick up a rider? My advice is to carry a digital camera with a good flash to keep handy in case someone tries to take off on you. I was like a deer in the headlights when it happened, but next time I'll be ready to start snapping pics/taking video. I faxed in the claim form today and Im hoping things will be resolved quickly. I had only been an Uber driver for a couple of days when the accident happened.


You need to sue the **** out of him get a attorney


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

I've got James River… What else can a driver need ?/Sarcasm alert


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> ...did your own insurance company get involved in any way (yet)?


No need to contact them, yet.


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> ...did your own insurance company get involved in any way (yet)?


That would effectively cancel his policy.


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## bowbowchicachica (May 16, 2015)

My senario: 
After picking up a rider, I was hit rear passenger door side while crossing a four-way stop intersection. Fortunately the passenger wasn’t injured and the other driver stopped but he had somewhere to be so he called for another Uber and left before the cop arrived. I knew for sure I wasn’t at fault and was hoping my dash cam video would prove it. Couldn’t find and show the video from the accident till after the officer wrote the ticket that couldn’t determine who was at fault. When I finally did show the video she said verbally that it looked to be the other drivers fault but that she wouldn’t go on just the video anyway without a eye witness. I filed an accident claim for that ride in the app. Later my insurance calls to inquire about the accident, though I never called them, and I tell them I have video. Eventually they flat out ask me if I was ride sharing at which point they deny my claim. Turns out the other driver in the accident has the same insurance as mine so her agent calls to inquire about the accident. I was a little confused, but fortunately they said they would accept liability and cover body damage.

What I learned:
- Uber does not provide drivers with an issuance card so the only information I could produce at the time was my own, though I was planning not to use my insurance, as it was clearly under Uber’s stated insurance liability. In catch 22 however, making a claim from the app requires you to take a picture of the accident citation the cop gives you after you show proof of registration and insurance. I was only made aware of Uber’s insurance info much later from a subsequent email about the claim. 
- Uber’s insurance encourages you to use your own insurance and but if you decide to go with them it will be a $1000 deductible. This was an expensive surprise. My own deductible was $500.
- There’s a good chance your insurance company is likely to find out about your accident somehow.

Thoughts & Concerns:
I am sure the only thing that saved me was my dash cam video. Without proof of the other driver’s liability her insurance would not have been so willing to payout damages and would have defaulted to “no fault” pay your own way. At best I would be out $1000 (if I had it) but no way to pay for it with my account suspended. I don’t wanna imagine how things would turn out if it was my fault. Her insurance would likely come after me and my insurance, at which point my personal would deny me and who knows what Uber would do. Try to find a way out is my guess. Would they cover their vehicle AND my vehicle? This is not even considering personal injury claims. Actually what saved me was that the other driver had reputable insurance. What would be the consequences had I gotten injured in an accident with or without a rider that was deemed to be my fault that either didn’t involve another party, the driver fled the scene, or didn’t have insurance? Things would be bad.

What finally happened with "Jen C" by the way


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

bowbowchicachica said:


> My senario:
> After picking up a rider, I was hit rear passenger door side while crossing a four-way stop intersection. Fortunately the passenger wasn't injured and the other driver stopped but he had somewhere to be so he called for another Uber and left before the cop arrived. I knew for sure I wasn't at fault and was hoping my dash cam video would prove it. Couldn't find and show the video from the accident till after the officer wrote the ticket that couldn't determine who was at fault. When I finally did show the video she said verbally that it looked to be the other drivers fault but that she wouldn't go on just the video anyway without a eye witness. I filed an accident claim for that ride in the app. Later my insurance calls to inquire about the accident, though I never called them, and I tell them I have video. Eventually they flat out ask me if I was ride sharing at which point they deny my claim. Turns out the other driver in the accident has the same insurance as mine so her agent calls to inquire about the accident. I was a little confused, but fortunately they said they would accept liability and cover body damage.
> 
> What I learned:
> ...


Just curious, did your insurance camcel you? Or say anything about the rideshare. How long ago was accident?


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## bowbowchicachica (May 16, 2015)

observer said:


> Just curious, did your insurance camcel you? Or say anything about the rideshare. How long ago was accident?


No, not yet but who knows what will happen when my policy comes up for renewal. I'm done with Uber though. Happened a few weeks ago.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

bowbowchicachica said:


> No, not yet but who knows what will happen when my policy comes up for renewal. I'm done with Uber though. Happened a few weeks ago.


Thanks for responding, please update us when you get renewed, or not.


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Jen, this may be further down the road, but there might be a couple of options to possibly get reimbursed for your JR deductible. The first would be to get in touch ASAP with the district attorney's office and ask if you can testify against the other driver if there is a court case ( he may plea bargain) or write a letter to the judge who would approve a plea bargain, asking for restitution. They should be able to advise you on the best way to go. If that fails, you can go to Small Claims Court. But that might have to wait until the guy is out of jail. Some places have a victim's relief fund, but I don't know if property damage would qualify.


To this end, the victim restitution fund can probably pay you. That and lost wages. Best of luck.


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

bowbowchicachica said:


> No, not yet but who knows what will happen when my policy comes up for renewal. I'm done with Uber though. Happened a few weeks ago.


Uber provided a copy of the insurance policy declarations page and you are supposed to carry it in your car.


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## bowbowchicachica (May 16, 2015)

CityGirl said:


> Uber provided a copy of the insurance policy declarations page and you are supposed to carry it in your car.


Not sure what you're getting at. Can you use that paper as proof of insurance and present it to a cop after an accident?


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## UberMom2 (May 2, 2015)

Jen C said:


> I actually didn't immediately turn it into uber insurance. I emailed them to make them aware of the.situation because I had to cancel on the rider I was on my way to pick up, and was afraid it would look bad and that my.rating would suffer. I'm not sure what you mean by unethical, all I know is that the accident was 100% not my fault. I can't help it if I was sitting at a stop light and some drunk idiot not paying attention plowed into me. None of us have any control in a situation like that.


It's my understanding (and I am new, so please investigate this on your own) that Uber insurance covers you the moment you accept the ride. So, you would be covered by Uber insurance, on your way to pick up a pax. That is my understanding of how it works in my state. By all means, someone correct me if I am wrong.


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## caspiy257 (Aug 19, 2014)

Uber says he has insurance, and at the same time offering drivers to buy insurance for Uber(see attached file). What is the reason the driver to buy insurance if it is already there? I hope everyone knows the answer.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

bowbowchicachica said:


> Not sure what you're getting at. Can you use that paper as proof of insurance and present it to a cop after an accident?


Yes, I think the James River proof of insurance is under waybill on the app If you were at fault Uber covers the other driver and you get NOTHING.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

UberMom2 said:


> It's my understanding (and I am new, so please investigate this on your own) that Uber insurance covers you the moment you accept the ride. So, you would be covered by Uber insurance, on your way to pick up a pax. That is my understanding of how it works in my state. By all means, someone correct me if I am wrong.


Sorry this post was a reply to bowbowchicachica , got em mixed up.

That is correct UberMom2 Ubers insurance is primary when you are on the way to get or have a passenger in the car. The trouble lies in proving that fact to an officer of the law if it comes to an accident.

Most personal insurance identification cards have 3 things on them:
1. Insurance policy Number
2. Name of the covered party(s)
3. VIN number of the covered vehicle.

Ubers Certificate does not have 2 or 3. But then there is commercial insurance that usually does not have the names of people rather it just says something to the effect of "people employed by XYZ business are covered" And it also says "Any cars owned by XYZ business are covered".

So in Ubers case their certificate says who are covered is "Any Non owned auto that is in a contractual relationship with the policy holder" The policy holder is Rasier LLC.

So this is where it gets sticky as you would have to prove to an officer that you were is a contractual relationship with Rasier LLC at the time of the accident.

Your car is not owned by Rasier LLC, you are not an employee of Rasier LLC. Your registration does not mention Rasier LLC anywhere on it. So you got an app that has a picture of an insurance certificate. but the app says you work for Uber and the certificate says people that are working for Rasier LLC are covered.

And most cops would not trust a picture you pull up on a smartphone, anyone could pull up that image. Does that mean everyone is covered by Uber? You would then need to get into a discussion with the police about the different subsidiaries of uber and why they have different names. Offshore accounts and liability you see. Cops do not want to hear all they, they want proof of insure plain and simple.

There have been reports of this working when you hand Uber Insurance docs to the person you were in a wreck with and completely keep your personal insurance out of the loop. But if police are ever involved and they have to fill out a report they need to see real proof of insurance and Ubers falls short of that in most cases. Thats when they demand to see your personal proof of insurance.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

UberMom2 said:


> It's my understanding (and I am new, so please investigate this on your own) that Uber insurance covers you the moment you accept the ride. So, you would be covered by Uber insurance, on your way to pick up a pax. That is my understanding of how it works in my state. By all means, someone correct me if I am wrong.


Yes Ubers is primary but only if it was the drivers fault. In Jens case the other party was at fault so Uber really does not want anything to do with it. As they should not it should be covered by the other party. However if there is no insurance in place with the other party then Uber's Uninsured motorist should kick in to cover the passenger (if one) but the drivers medical is not covered and the vehicle is subject to the $1000.00 delectable to get fixed. That is as long as you carry collision and uninsured motorist coverage on your personal policy. Uber will only cover is you have the coverage in place on your personal policy.


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## Kia21 (Apr 14, 2015)

What ever happen to Jen this forum has me thinking seriously about ever turning the app on again n blink of eye I could be the next Jen uber doesn't inform you any details about their 


Walkersm said:


> Sorry this post was a reply to bowbowchicachica , got em mixed up.
> 
> That is correct UberMom2 Ubers insurance is primary when you are on the way to get or have a passenger in the car. The trouble lies in proving that fact to an officer of the law if it comes to an accident.
> 
> ...


great respond good information you just open my eyes I could be the next Jen


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## LolX (May 11, 2015)

Jen this story is really heartbreaking and terrible to hear. I've read most of the thread... here is another option: contact local newspapers, news radio, TV (their consumer advocate person) if you don't get any help from Uber.

This will really put the heat on Uber and if a mother trying to support her kids gets screwed like this, it is going to resonate with the public. They'll want to fix the situation quick so the same places can report back that everything worked out. I think this is also a better way to beat them for people who hate Uber on here than to take them to court. 

As for ways to make money: check Craigslist all the time especially the "gigs" section. In my area at least when I was trying to make some extra cash, they have lots of chances for easy money like $100 paid research. They have things like sell stuff for others on eBay (their items, you keep 10-20% commission). Other really quick ways to make cash that are a lot lower stress/don't kill your car/don't put you in danger. Also lots of places have jobs in Customer Serveice answering e-mails and calls that you can in part name your own hours/WFH. Just keep checking it and have your resume handy. Good luck!


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

bowbowchicachica said:


> Not sure what you're getting at. Can you use that paper as proof of insurance and present it to a cop after an accident?


Yes. That is what it is for.


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Yes Ubers is primary but only if it was the drivers fault. In Jens case the other party was at fault so Uber really does not want anything to do with it. As they should not it should be covered by the other party. However if there is no insurance in place with the other party then Uber's Uninsured motorist should kick in to cover the passenger (if one) but the drivers medical is not covered and the vehicle is subject to the $1000.00 delectable to get fixed. That is as long as you carry collision and uninsured motorist coverage on your personal policy. Uber will only cover is you have the coverage in place on your personal policy.


Good, cogent explanation. I concur.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

CityGirl said:


> Good, cogent explanation. I concur.


POST # 123/CityGirl : Bostonian Bison
ALWAYS feels better
after CityGirl concurs!

Bison, tail waggin'.


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## burnlord (Nov 23, 2014)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> So you're recommending lying by omission? The point is the driver wouldn't have been on the road at all if she weren't engaging in commercial activity.
> 
> Pathetic.


What are you, omniscient? You have no way of knowing she would not have been driving around at that time if she was not working.


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