# Why I carry.



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do. 

Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can’t leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her. 

After I get the tires on and return the van to her it’s almost 7, we have 3 kids and decide to do a quick catch up meeting after she gets off work. So a little after 7 we leave her work, she stops at a gas station to get gas in a crap neighborhood in W Phoenix. As we are talking I notice a very large male is standing near the front of her minivan staring at her. 

I make eye contact with him every 30 seconds or so to let him know I see him, he’s not moving, just staring at my ex with an angry look on his face. Her back is to him. He continues to stare at her like an animal wanting something the whole time she is filling her van. Finally it’s full and she puts the nozzle back on the pump and closes her gas cap and door. He is still staring. 

We talk for about 2 more minutes. He’s still staring, has not moved an inch. She had her drivers door open, only the door between them and me on the wrong side of her. After a couple minutes and realizing he wasn’t moving I calmly told her to get in her van and get out of here. 

As she turned around I very gently pulled back the left side of my sport coat to discreetly show the 40 hanging on my hip. He finally stepped back. She got in her van and left. As she pulled away I formed to go back to my truck with my left hand on the 40. 

I carry to protect my family and anyone else around. Yes, she’s my ex but also the mother of the 3 daughters we have. A simple discreet and calm display was enough to get this individual to back down. Notice I said nothing to him, simply read his look and behavior, then acted appropriately to not cause a scene but ensure she was safe. 

My ex knows and trusts me enough that had I said the word “drop” she’d of instantly hit the ground knowing what was happening even though she was unaware herself of the guy staring at her. 

Carrying is not about being a badass, it’s about going home safe and protecting everyone around you should the need arise. 

This story also demonstrates our need to be fully aware of our surroundings at all times. All to often we are in areas that our not our neighborhoods. Getting gas, picking and dropping pax, waiting for that next fare. By being alert to our surroundings we can often avoid issues. My awareness of this individual and letting him know I saw him with regular but non-threatening eye contact had him waiting for me to drop my guard. The discreet movement of the sport coat let him know I was prepared if he wanted to act to attack her, steal the van or whatever else he had in mind. 

Carrying more often than not leads to a peaceful resolution of what could otherwise be a very violent encounter. Train. Carry. Train. Train. Train.


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## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Agreed. What do you carry? I typically either have a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm single stack or my Ruger American 9mm double stack on me. I'll go with my Ruger SR40 if I want to go with a full size pistol. Thankfully the holsters for both my rugers are interchangeable.


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

Good Job *BlueNOX*


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> Agreed. What do you carry? I typically either have a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm single stack or my Ruger American 9mm double stack on me. I'll go with my Ruger SR40 if I want to go with a full size pistol. Thankfully the holsters for both my rugers are interchangeable.


 Springfield XD 40. Big frame workhorse. Very intimidating even in its holster.


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## PatsFan69 (May 3, 2019)

Springfield Xd 9 Sub compact. Better to be Judged by 12 than carried by 6.
If you are going to carry anything it would be a good idea to become proficient so when things go sideways you don't think just react.

I need to get some OC foam for the car. 

I am also a CO and not afraid of prison, lol.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Because you are afraid


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

The mistake many make is to not train correctly. They get s gun and go to the range or shoot cans in the country. In a situation no matter how calm you remain your adrenaline goes up and this affects your accuracy. The CCW courses never cover this. I’m a former SeaBee and training means going out and doing adrenaline training. Running, crouching, multiple targets, single and in a group, crawling though the dirt and even drawing on the roll. This increases the heart and breathing rates, creates adrenaline and gives you a better example of real world situations you might find yourself in.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)




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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

Homeless dude was probably looking to make 50 cents by cleaning her windshield. 
Good thing Dirty Harry was there!


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> Agreed. What do you carry? I typically either have a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm single stack or my Ruger American 9mm double stack on me. I'll go with my Ruger SR40 if I want to go with a full size pistol. Thankfully the holsters for both my rugers are interchangeable.


Shield 9mm FTW! It was on sale so I got the Performance Center ?


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

TemptingFate said:


> Homeless dude was probably looking to make 50 cents by cleaning her windshield.
> Good thing Dirty Harry was there!


Maybe. But experience has taught me those who want to clean a windshield typically have a dirty wrag and a spray bottle of brown water. He had neither.

And if calmly protecting someone who gave birth to my children is a Dirty Harry moment so be it. I do believe Dirty Harry would of pulled his fun out and asked the guy how lucky he felt.

But then again liberals tend to think clipping ones finger nails is a Dirty Harry moment.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> Agreed. What do you carry? I typically either have a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm single stack or my Ruger American 9mm double stack on me. I'll go with my Ruger SR40 if I want to go with a full size pistol. Thankfully the holsters for both my rugers are interchangeable.


I love my m&p shield 9mm. Its my daily carry.



dauction said:


> Because you are afraid


Of being killed by some violent criminal, yes. Why? Because it happens and we arent so stupid to think the world is made of unicorns and rainbows.

Do you think fear is bad or to be embarrassed of? What are you, 12?



TemptingFate said:


> Homeless dude was probably looking to make 50 cents by cleaning her windshield.
> Good thing Dirty Harry was there!


Im gonna take a wild guess that youve never been assaulted.

This is for the folks that think the world is made of unicorns and rainbows. I drive this area regularly.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...-driving-for-uber-at-the-time-of-the-shooting


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

Sigma 380


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## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


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## TampaGuy (Feb 18, 2019)

Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


Hopefully he would have emptied is rounds into the goon.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Things up North here are so different. I don't know anyone who carries so I had to look up the laws. Turns out only around 8K permits to carry are authorized per year for the whole country and most of those go to Peace Officers and Border Guards. Civilians need to be able to demonstrate there is an imminent and recognizable, credible threat which the police cannot protect you from in order to qualify for an authorization to carry, signed by a local police officer and authorized by the chief firearms officer for their province or territory.


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## TampaGuy (Feb 18, 2019)

VanGuy said:


> Things up North here are so different. I don't know anyone who carries so I had to look up the laws. Turns out only around 8K permits to carry are authorized per year for the whole country and most of those go to Peace Officers and Border Guards. Civilians need to be able to demonstrate there is an imminent and recognizable, credible threat which the police cannot protect you from in order to qualify for an authorization to carry, signed by a local police officer and authorized by the chief firearms officer for their province or territory.


We have the right to bear arms in the USA


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

TampaGuy said:


> We have the right to arm bears in the USA


There...FIFY

Rakos


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


This is the only thing id criticize about that encounter. IMO, you never show your firearm, unless its to draw it. Tho i wasn't there and its hard to judge situations like that if you arent present.


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## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

OMG GO! said:


> This is the only thing id criticize about that encounter. IMO, you never show your firearm, unless its to draw it. Tho i wasn't there and its hard to judge situations like that if you arent present.


In Oklahoma at least, that could be perceived as a threat of deadly force. However, open carrying wouldn't be.....doesn't really make sense to me.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> In Oklahoma at least, that could be perceived as a threat of deadly force. However, open carrying wouldn't be.....doesn't really make sense to me.


I wouldn't know. I only open carried in the service and the rules are obviously different. As a civilian its only been concealed carry for me, so thats what ive trained for. I feel like open carry makes you a target, i wouldnt do it personally.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

If you use that while in a car your going to paint the inside red AND punch a whole through the unibody.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If you use that while in a car your going to paint the inside red AND punch a whole through the unibody.


Ummm only an idiot would use a gun to defend while driving. Ka-Bar TDI is for driving self defense. Fixed blade knife near impossible to take due to its construction. Gun while driving is for if your attacked getting out of car and using if attacker does not flee.

Besides, if being attacked and need to use a gun to stop it who cares about the car. It's replaceable, people are not.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If you use that while in a car your going to paint the inside red AND punch a whole through the unibody.


....so? Youd rather save your interior and die?


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I'd never open carry as you lose your biggest advantage, which is surprise, but I'd always conceal carry.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Same here.
Several years ago, I was driving my Dads' 1988 Toyota Supra ... spotless, 37,000 miles, late on a Saturday night. Pulled into a circle k around Roosevelt and southern in Tempe. Not a bad area, winter...had my S&W .357 in a shoulder holster. Three large black teen boys came around the corner as I was exiting vehicle, stopped when they saw me, mumbled among themselves...then started babbling unintelligible crap at me, coming my way. Immediatly moved coat with left hand, put right hand on gun. Their eyeballs got big, and ran like hell.
That is the only time I've ever had to show a weapon.



dauction said:


> Because you are afraid


BaaahaaBaahahahaha ? ?


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## Ping.Me.More (Oct 27, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If you use that while in a car your going to paint the inside red AND punch a whole through the unibody.


If being strangled in driver's seat by pax located directly behind driver, I wonder if
it might be effective to discharge a .357 at the pax, by shooting it through the driver's
upholstered seat back. (?) 
[that move would assume a required amount of arm and wrist mobility, of course]


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Ping.Me.More said:


> If being strangled in driver's seat by pax located directly behind driver, I wonder if
> it might be effective to discharge a .357 at the pax, by shooting it through the driver's
> upholstered seat back. (?)
> [that move would assume a required amount of arm and wrist mobility, of course]


Very bad idea. Probably shoot yourself. Has to do with arm length vs torso width.

More effective. Use right hand to release pressure on throat. Left hand to reach back and fully recline seat, this will surprise attacker and simultaneously relieve all pressure. No more strangulation. Right hand release seat belt, left door open and roll out. Now use hand gun once your out of vehicle


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## Ping.Me.More (Oct 27, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Very bad idea. Probably shoot yourself. Has to do with arm length vs torso width.
> 
> More effective. Use right hand to release pressure on throat. Left hand to reach back and fully recline seat, this will surprise attacker and simultaneously relieve all pressure. No more strangulation. Right hand release seat belt, left door open and roll out. Now use hand gun once your out of vehicle


My thought was directed only to a last ditch effort, if you _can't _get out_. _
Yeah, yeah, I've watched all the YouTube "what to do in case of" videos, 
and there is some good advice available there, but:

My all-electric seats move way too slow . . "surprise attacker"? . . . I don't think so.
There needs to be a "plan B", in the event I'm up against some big strong mf, that I can't
get loose from. Textbook stuff is good to know, but may not always work.
I'm thin enough, with long enough arms, and could shoot to the rear. . . . I'm just not willing to
make a hole in my seatback to find out if that would work. 
I have a revolver, not a semi-automatic, so I think one injury risk might be a 
flame burn to my side, coming out from the cylinder.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Ping.Me.More said:


> My thought was directed only to a last ditch effort, if you _can't _get out_. _
> Yeah, yeah, I've watched all the YouTube "what to do in case of" videos,
> and there is some good advice available there, but:
> 
> ...


I alternate wad cutters with hollow points in my .357
Wad cutters can stop an engine block from close range fired from a 357 or a 45


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


 Refer to the _theory_ of _mutually_ assured _destruction_ (MAD)
countervalue targeting is thought to substantially reduce the chances of a first strike.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

So, what intersection was this gas station near by?


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## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

OMG GO! said:


> I wouldn't know. I only open carried in the service and the rules are obviously different. As a civilian its only been concealed carry for me, so thats what ive trained for. I feel like open carry makes you a target, i wouldnt do it personally.


I agree. I usually carry in the pocket holster, but I got a Sneaky Pete holster recently and I love it. It looks like a cell phone case, not a holster. Pure concealment, but really easy access.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Little man syndrome.

Try to use your brains to diffuse instead of flashing a piece.

You sound a bit psycho. I'm trying to interpret what really happened.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Ping.Me.More said:


> My thought was directed only to a last ditch effort, if you _can't _get out_. _
> Yeah, yeah, I've watched all the YouTube "what to do in case of" videos,
> and there is some good advice available there, but:
> 
> ...


Pick up a Ka-Bar TDI. It's a fixed blade double edged knife the cops use. Near impossible to have taken from you. Check it out, very inexpensive and can do enough damage to let you out of the car.

Also, if attacked and they are hitting lean left into the car and bring the righ arm up to protect the side of your head before you reach for any weapons. The arm will take the blows allowing your mind to remain clear.

Seriously, get with a friend and practice what to do. Don't just hear/read advice and think you'll perfect it on the fly during an attack. I practice weekly different parts of self defense and shooting. Move it from the page to the point it becomes muscle memory.


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## mmn (Oct 23, 2015)

You defused the situation, but you also took a big risk. A display like that could be perceived by the guy as an "imminent threat of death or great bodily harm" giving him license to blow you away.

What you did was illegal (here). Unfortunately, to comply with the law you pretty much have to wait for the "clear threat" before you take defensive action with a firearm. And at that point you don't display - you take the appropriate action to neutralize the threat.

No, I'm not a lawyer. Yes, things may be different in your state/country.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

TemptingFate said:


> Homeless dude was probably looking to make 50 cents by cleaning her windshield.
> Good thing Dirty Harry was there!


What he said, 
and I'd add, it must be hell to be you always paranoid and afraid and thinking the worst about people

And don't think I don't know about sketchy neighborhoods. I used to own property, and collect rent (cash) after dark in inner city Baltimore. I never had a problem that showing a gun would solve. Actually I was afraid to carry a gun because my fear was thay a bad guy might be quicker on the draw than me. Or come up behind me with a baseball bat, knock me down and shoot me with my own gun. In your case I'd bet that If the guy had bad intentions chances are he could shoot you first

Given your level of fear and paranoia I wonder why you weren't pumping the gas for you ex And I wonder why you were in that neighborhood at all. why did your ex put herself in the position where she had to stop in such a neighborhood for gas. Teach her to fill up in a safe part of town and never let the tank to get lower than half full.

You say train for situations like this ; I'd say learn to stay out of situations that scare you

I learned a long time ago that if I show respect for people I get respect in return. And that works best with bad guys. A simple "good evening, how's it going?" Or can I help you ?Does the trick


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


...my left hand is a killer hand,right hand,I am scared of it myself...


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Try to use your brains to diffuse instead of flashing a piece.


1) Peace though superior firepower works.
2) Many of these perps are animals - they only understand force.
*Facts*



oldfart said:


> You say train for situations like this ; I'd say learn to stay out of situations that scare you
> 
> I learned a long time ago that if I show respect for people I get respect in return. And that works best with bad guys. A simple "good evening, how's it going?" Or can I help you ?Does the trick


Guess you haven't dealt with real scum of the earth.

1) It's not so much fear as it is preparedness.
2) Respect and talking is fine - but sometimes you need to escalate fast.
3) You forget that kindness is mistaken for weakness.

Their is a time for kindness certainly and also a time to make the bad guy aware that you have a firearm; confuse the two and you might end up dead or at least victimized somehow.

The guys in this message thread sound like they know exactly what they are doing

Facts from 25 year police veteran - me.


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## TheCount (May 15, 2019)

oldfart said:


> What he said,
> and I'd add, it must be hell to be you always paranoid and afraid and thinking the worst about people
> 
> And don't think I don't know about sketchy neighborhoods. I used to own property, and collect rent (cash) after dark in inner city Baltimore. I never had a problem that showing a gun would solve. Actually I was afraid to carry a gun because my fear was thay a bad guy might be quicker on the draw than me. Or come up behind me with a baseball bat, knock me down and shoot me with my own gun. In your case I'd bet that If the guy had bad intentions chances are he could shoot you first
> ...


Whip out your guitar and strum a few chords of Kumbaya, that'll defuse the situation.


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Actually I was afraid to carry a gun because my fear was thay a bad guy might be quicker on the draw than me. Or come up behind me with a baseball bat, knock me down and shoot me with my own gun. In your case I'd bet that If the guy had bad intentions chances are he could shoot you first


Your correct - not everyone is qualified to carry. Sounds like being unarmed is a good choice for you.

By the way paranoia is perceiving a risk that does not exist.
Situational Awareness is perceiving a risk that does or potentially will exist.
Big difference.

Situational awareness will let you stay one step ahead of a threat.

Don't worry, we will protect you too if we have the chance. That's just the type of guys we are!


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## DC2VEGAS (Jun 5, 2019)

I carry a snub nose or at least my wife calls it that, however she is adamant that I don’t flash it in public?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> My ex knows and trusts me enough that had I said the word "drop" she'd of instantly hit the ground knowing what was happening even though she was unaware herself of the guy staring at her.


In my experience, it's a lot more effective if the woman is carrying. I day that for two reasons.

First, there's the surprise factor. The guy on the other side is expecting the lead to be coming from the guy, not from the woman.

Second, a firearm is a great equalizer for a woman. Our perceived disadvantage is having less physical strength. Other than a little less capability in terms of aiming the piece, that's not an issue with a decent handgun.

And anyhow, let's talk about that guitar for a second. I play acoustic finger style guitar. It's great for building up hand strength. 

Christine


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

theMezz said:


> 1) Peace though superior firepower works.
> 2) Many of these perps are animals - they only understand force.
> *Facts*
> 
> ...


Acting as if the "real scum of the earth" don't have guns.

If the guy as bad as OP says, he's lucky he didn't get popped in back of head.

I think what was really happening ...THe other guy probably bored and lost in thought. Just glancing at his ex because nothing better to do while pumping gas. OP didnt see that his wife flirting with other guy to make him jealous, the other guy was trying to see if there was something there. OP embarassed that the other guy didn't even see him as a threat.

LMS kicked in and the guy got it all distorted in his mind and went psycho.

thats probably closer to the truth of what happend.

tldr; Ex wife ****ing with OP, he didn't realize it and flashed his piece at some unsuspecting guy at gas station. If he understood women they'd still be married.


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## FormerTaxiDriver♧ (Apr 5, 2018)

XPG said:


> View attachment 326177


That monkey looks like it wants to suck something.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> Little man syndrome.
> 
> Try to use your brains to diffuse instead of flashing a piece.
> 
> You sound a bit psycho. I'm trying to interpret what really happened.


Brains vs flashing a


OldBay said:


> Acting as if the "real scum of the earth" don't have guns.
> 
> If the guy as bad as OP says, he's lucky he didn't get popped in back of head.
> 
> ...


I find this reply interesting for a few years:

1. Been divorced 12 yrs now. Both of us are Remarried and not jealous.

2. It takes close to 10 minutes to fill an empty gas tank. Who stares at a woman for that long? That goes way beyond acceptable in any society.

3. Her back was to the individual 99.9% of the time. She actually was unaware until she left he was there.

Now to address the psycho comment. Someone who is psycho would have reacted with a much higher level of force and most likely got up in the individuals face. The whole point of opening the sport coat slightly is to silently communicate if he wanted to dance I'd make him my huckleberry. Not a hard or psychotic concept for anyone to grasp.

Not sure why the liberals in here are so set against guns and quick to jump up and insult those of us who carry. I'm positive that in a situation you'll be thrilled to have us protect you and then go on the news screaming of how we could of talked the attacker down with just a beer summit.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

I believe YOU believe that's what was happening.



Christinebitg said:


> And anyhow, let's talk about that guitar for a second. I play acoustic finger style guitar. It's great for building up hand strength. :smiles:
> 
> Christine


And callouses.


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## krbjmpr (Mar 12, 2019)

I _might_ have (2) .380 pawnshop specials on obscured mag mounts. Lower power loads to reduce exit from vehicle other than through window. Not intended for regular carry, just vehicle interior.

.357 Mag +P+ in a shoulder for regular carry.

Of course this is hypothetical since _having a weapon by driver or rider_ is against the rules and we all know that everybody abides by the rules to protect ourselves and others.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

theMezz said:


> Your correct - not everyone is qualified to carry. Sounds like being unarmed is a good choice for you.
> 
> By the way paranoia is perceiving a risk that does not exist.
> Situational Awareness is perceiving a risk that does or potentially will exist.
> ...


Protect me from what, exactly?

And you make my point about paranoia. A potential risk is a risk that does not exist

I just don't see the threat in the situation the op described. I understand that you do and so did he, but I think that there are better ways to deal with those threats. If be knew this was a "crap" neighborhood and he knows that he is afraid of very big men. And of course we all know that very big men can be found in any neighborhood including crap neighborhoods

Why not get gas somewhere else?

I find it just a little strange that the ex chose this gas station in this crap neighborhood I imagine she passes through this neighborhood on her way home from work and had probably bought gas here before. In any case she was on her way home from work And she wasn't afraid to stop at this station

My advice is to avoid risky situations as. Much as possible.. and this situation would have been avoidable 
I hope the op advised his ex to never let her tank go below half full and to find a different rout home from work

I have not in my nearly 73 years experienced a situation where I wished I had a gun. Or a body guard. Possible because the bad guys assume that everyone even me has a gun; so thanks for that.

And don't assume I'm afraid of guns. Or that I know nothing about guns I've fired a fully automatic M16 more than once and had a M60 machine gun mounted on the truck I drove. I'm not afraid of guns.I'm afraid of the people that carry guns to protect themselves against "perceived potential risks"


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TampaGuy said:


> We have the right to bear arms in the USA


Unless you live in the NYC Suburbs or NYC! LOL


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Protect me from what, exactly?
> 
> And you make my point about paranoia. A potential risk is a risk that does not exist
> 
> ...


Your statement sounds like sexist liberal garbage. It's a woman's fault she got raped because of her clothes. She shouldn't go there because it's bad and it's her fault for being in that neighborhood.

If you own a gun your a coward. Wow. If you perceive a threat your a coward. Seriously, your 73, you lived in a different time than we live in now. The mindset of a criminal in the 50's is way different today.

As far as where to buy gas, this is Amica and we are free to go where we choose, wear what we want and buy gas wherever it is sold. We also happen to have this little thing called the right to defend one self.

No one pulled a gun out here, a subtle motion was made to let a perceived threat know if they wanted to start something it would be reacted to. Peaceful resolution of the situation.

Do you spend 10 minutes staring at another person without moving at all? If you do it's called creepy both today and in the 50's when you came up.

Congratulations on living a blessed life where your to scared to go certain places or do certain things. But I will NOT be controlled by those who choose to victimize the honest and hardworking.

Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive? If so you must be scared of getting in a wreck. Maybe you shouldn't drive? Do you lock the doors to your house? If so you must be scared of getting robbed, perhaps you should move somewhere safer. Do you monitor the balance of your bank account? Scared the bank is embezzling your money then, better find a new bank.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Unless you live in the NYC Suburbs or NYC! LOL


 Of course you have the right, you just don't have the need


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

oldfart said:


> What he said,
> and I'd add, it must be hell to be you always paranoid and afraid and thinking the worst about people
> 
> And don't think I don't know about sketchy neighborhoods. I used to own property, and collect rent (cash) after dark in inner city Baltimore. I never had a problem that showing a gun would solve. Actually I was afraid to carry a gun because my fear was thay a bad guy might be quicker on the draw than me. Or come up behind me with a baseball bat, knock me down and shoot me with my own gun. In your case I'd bet that If the guy had bad intentions chances are he could shoot you first
> ...


Another "the world is rainbows and unicorns, bad things never happen" sorta dude.



oldfart said:


> Protect me from what, exactly?
> 
> And you make my point about paranoia. A potential risk is a risk that does not exist
> 
> ...


You really assume alot and expect things to go certain ways, as if people arent upredictable and as if other people don't have different experiences than you.

Your "advice" is so full of shit, as if someone can always avoid risky situations (the world is rainbows and unicorns, we can always avoid danger if we just choose to because RAINBOWS!), as if they dont just ****in happen sometimes. Being prepared and trained isnt paranoia, ya dolt.


----------



## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Of course you have the right, you just don't have the need


Kind of like having a dash cam...... best to diffuse the situation BEFORE stupid people do stupid things.......

Of course there are people here who don't think you need a dash cam.... well.... you don't need one until you actually need on. Just like carrying. Better to have and never need then need and not have.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

DriverMark said:


> Kind of like having a dash cam...... best to diffuse the situation BEFORE stupid people do stupid things.......
> 
> Of course there are people here who don't think you need a dash cam.... well.... you don't need one until you actually need on. Just like carrying. Better to have and never need then need and not have.


Solid point that im sure will be lost on our unicorns and rainbows folks.


----------



## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

OMG GO! said:


> Solid point that im sure will be lost on our unicorns and rainbows folks.


Hey, look, a pile of skittles over there......... taste the rainbow!


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

The vast majority of people in our country, 99%+ live their everyday lives NOT carrying.

Is everyone else stupid? Or do they conduct themselves in a way that they don't need a gun?

I'm not anti-gun in any way. Its just that the OP seemed to display some delusional thinking and came online to "brag" about carrying and how he "saved his ex wife" from some imaginary thug. The whole premise that some guy was checking out his ex wife in a creepy way that would lead to something bad happening... in a public place with security cameras. . . with many witnesses.. . is crazy.

Interestingly, if things had (really) gotten out of hand, a canister of Mace would have offered better defense. Flashing a gun in bad part of town can get you followed home and killed. No one gets revenge killed for showing the pepper spray on their keychain.

I think the OP displayed a collosal lack of judgement in flashing the gun. Probably not the kind of person who should be carrying.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Mace? Unless you have military grade, which most people have no access to mace is pretty much useless.

You sound very anti-gun by the way. You seem to believe that only your way is the right way. Oh yeah, your 73, you’ve lived your life that only your way is the right way and god damn the torpedos fire away all tubes now on anyone who goes against you.

You failed to respond to the question is it a woman’s l if she gets raped because she shouldn’t have done whatever it is she did or worn whatever it is she wore? 

I just looked, your from Maryland, a Democrat state. You probably believe in the new Lyft choose your pronoun and are a mask carrying member of antifa that believes we should love and embrace all except those who don’t agree with us.

It’s simple, you weren’t there, I was. I read the situation and made a judgement call on what I believe to be the best solution to the situation. Obviously it was the correct resolution to the situation for these 3 reasons:

1. Nobody is in the hospital or morgue.
2. Nobody is in jail
3. Everyone is continuing their lives.

Now, if I wanted to be a paranoid badass instigating something I would of gone to my vehicle, opened the back up, lifted the floor panel and pulled out my AR, slung it over my shoulder and walked back with it at the low ready. I’m in AZ, that is fully legal to do here.

I utilized my training from being a US Navy SeaBee and also life training to read a situation and react to it using no more force than necessary. Should the situation have escalated my level of force would have. That sir is the law.

Go ride your unicorn.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> The vast majority of people in our country, 99%+ live their everyday lives NOT carrying.
> 
> Is everyone else stupid? Or do they conduct themselves in a way that they don't need a gun?
> 
> ...


"99%" lol why do people always pull stats out of their ass as if that could make a real point?


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

?Men with little pee pees need guns ?and big SUVs ?
I am in No Need of a either ?. Thx U Lord


----------



## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

*BlueNOX*

What intersection was this gas station near by?


----------



## kos um uber (Nov 3, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


----------



## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Mace? Unless you have military grade, which most people have no access to mace is pretty much useless.
> 
> You sound very anti-gun by the way. You seem to believe that only your way is the right way. Oh yeah, your 73, you've lived your life that only your way is the right way and god damn the torpedos fire away all tubes now on anyone who goes against you.
> 
> ...


TL : DR



kos um uber said:


> View attachment 326473


Why is your thumb on the hammerless Rack? Looks spastic ???


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> The vast majority of people in our country, 99%+ live their everyday lives NOT carrying.
> 
> Is everyone else stupid? Or do they conduct themselves in a way that they don't need a gun?
> 
> ...


Actually 99% do not go around without guns. That number is way off.

6.6% of the US population has a CCW. 
42%!of US Households own guns. 
31 states do NOT require a CCW to carry a handgun openly or concealed.

AZ is one of those states. 
MD is NOT because the skittle unicorns you've elected believe your not smart enough to handle a gun.



amazinghl said:


> *BlueNOX*
> 
> What intersection was this gas station near by?


59th ave and Bethany Home. W side of Phoenix for those not familiar.


----------



## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Poor folk love Guns and Bibles, cause that's all they "gotst"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.uselections2008


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

RabbleRouser said:


> Poor folk love Guns and Bibles, cause that's all they "gotst"
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.uselections2008


So your saying only poor folks own guns?

Hmmmm

Wait isn't Obama and Clinton protected 24/7 with armed guards? Must of gotten them from the Midwest is what your saying. Poor, illiterate midwestern folks. You do realize you sound like a bigot with that statement.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

RabbleRouser said:


> Poor folk love Guns and Bibles, cause that's all they "gotst"
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.uselections2008


I voted for Obama, hate trump, am agnostic, and drive a hybrid.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

RabbleRouser said:


> And many are just Dirt @OMG GO! aka: 6 shooter pee wee,????


Do you ever try to make sense, have a point or be right? Or is it that you just like making the left look like the idiots the right already think they are?


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

So some of you choose to lawfully carry a gun....cool. 
Therefore, you should have no problem answering these real world situational questions as truthfully/honestly as you can.... no bravado ok, just real answers.

Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger? 

What do you think would happen if you pulled your gun and shots are fired? 

Are you always 100% certain that one of your shots won't injure or kill someone not involved in your fight?

Do you actually believe that you are better than anyone (criminal or not) you run into that also has a gun?

What would you do if you injured or maimed someone you know by accident and this prevents them from ever living a normal life?

What would you do if you killed someone you know by accident? 

What if your assailant has far better hand to hand techniques and takes your gun from you?

Do you know for certain that these situations above can't or won't happen to you?

Do you feel that your life is always in clear and present danger?


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Kevin.G said:


> So some of you choose to lawfully carry a gun....cool.
> Therefore, you should have no problem answering these real world situational questions as truthfully/honestly as you can.... no bravado ok, just real answers.
> 
> Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger?
> ...


1. No
2.ill win the violent encounter i was forced into. If i can avoid it, i will.
3. Thats why you train
4. Why does that even matter? If you assume maybe not you just give up? So dumb, but yes i think my civilian and military training makes me MUCH better than your average POS criminal.
5.deal with the consequences obviously. There is training to help you avoid this, but why would you care to know that.
6. I identify the threat before i shoot at it. Your questions are just starting to illuminate that you dont know much of anything.
7. Jesus christ..... 1st, you dont engage from that close if avoidable. Remeber, this violence is being forced upon you and you cannot flee. If its not forced or you can flee, you arent ****in shooting.
8.do you know for certain you wont die in yor car today? No? Why wear a seatbelt then?
9. No, and what a dumb question. People who are muredered werent ALWAYS IN CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. Just for the moment they were killed.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...-driving-for-uber-at-the-time-of-the-shooting


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> It takes close to 10 minutes to fill an empty gas tank. Who stares at a woman for that long? That goes way beyond acceptable in any society.


I disagree with you. If I see someone who's attractive, and who's not looking my way, I'll watch. Yes, maybe even for 10 minutes. ("Cute butt... Yum!")

If she had been looking at him, and he stared for 10 minutes, that would be more of an issue for me.

Just an FYI, regarding a handgun as a deterrent: My Significant Other's brother recently retired from the Des Moines police force. He says that if you want a deterrent, get laser sights mounted on your handgun. Pointing it and lighting up a person with that laser equals instant compliance.

It's a graphic reminder of just exactly where that bullet is going to go.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> So some of you choose to lawfully carry a gun....cool.
> Therefore, you should have no problem answering these real world situational questions as truthfully/honestly as you can.... no bravado ok, just real answers.


Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger? *No, it does not make me feel any stronger.*

What do you think would happen if you pulled your gun and shots are fired? *If I pulled my gun and fired shots the threat would be stopped or I would be seriously injured or dead.*

Are you always 100% certain that one of your shots won't injure or kill someone not involved in your fight? *First off it is not a fight. It is self defense. 100% certain no, there is never any **guarantee**.*

Do you actually believe that you are better than anyone (criminal or not) you run into that also has a gun? *No, I know there are many people more talented and quicker than me with a gun. I can only hope that my training and practice gives me the advantage I need to protect myself.*

What would you do if you injured or maimed someone you know by accident and this prevents them from ever living a normal life? *I would have to deal with that the rest of my life. Practicing safe gun handling rules is the best prevention for accidents.*

What would you do if you killed someone you know by accident? *Same as last answer.*

What if your assailant has far better hand to hand techniques and takes your gun from you? *That is a risk I am willing to take. Chances are I will not be close enough for that to happen in the first place. There are also techniques used for close encounters to help prevent your firearm from being taken.*

Do you know for certain that these situations above can't or won't happen to you? *There are no certainties in life.*

Do you feel that your life is always in clear and present danger? *Anyone that answers this yes has a serious issue and maybe should not own a gun.*


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> I disagree with you. If I see someone who's attractive, and who's not looking my way, I'll watch. Yes, maybe even for 10 minutes. ("Cute butt... Yum!")
> 
> If she had been looking at him, and he stared for 10 minutes, that would be more of an issue for me.
> 
> ...


Had you been looking at him you would of noticed and been uncomfortable. But not uncomfortable if your unaware.

And had you turned and realized you were being startled at would that make you uncomfortable then?

Keep in mind this wasn't a basic stare, oh she's hot. Experience and training have taught me the difference in those. Those was 10 minutes of intense, not moving hardcore staring.

Have you ever watched a cat stare. There are 2 kinds, one just staring off into space enjoying he view with blinks every so often. Then there is the after prey stare, no blinking, muscles tight stare. This was the latter.

And I agree with the laser 100%


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Had you been looking at him you would of noticed and been uncomfortable. But not uncomfortable if your unaware.
> 
> And had you turned and realized you were being startled at would that make you uncomfortable then?
> 
> ...


These children dont have the life experience of someone whos been the victim of an assault or had to serve in the armed forces. Children criticizing people and situations they know nothing about.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> So some of you choose to lawfully carry a gun....cool.


Here is a question for you.

Ever have a criminal come up to you to rob you by pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger while you were complying 100%?

I have, and thank god the gun misfired and jammed or I may not be here today. Sure changed my perspective on self protection.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> Here is a question for you.
> 
> Ever have a criminal come up to you to rob you by pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger while you were complying 100%?
> 
> I have, and thank god the gun misfired and jammed or I may not be here today. Sure changed my perspective on self protection.


These folks think that those crimes dont happen, ever.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

So some of you choose to lawfully carry a gun....cool.
Therefore, you should have no problem answering these real world situational questions as truthfully/honestly as you can.... no bravado ok, just real answers.

Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger? *No training and exercise make me feel stronger. They build muscle mass. *

What do you think would happen if you pulled your gun and shots are fired? * The firing pin will strike the bullet igniting the gunpowder in the shell casing, this will inevitably propel a projectile down the barrel in the precise direction the barrel is aimed. This projectile will strike and most likely pierce whatever is in its path. If it's a hollow point it will then mushroom and slow, a full metal jacket round will continue on its path striking multiple things in its path. *

Are you always 100% certain that one of your shots won't injure or kill someone not involved in your fight? *No. Are you 100% certain that your views will always be received warmly and never hurt anyone causing them to commit suicide?*

Do you actually believe that you are better than anyone (criminal or not) you run into that also has a gun? *No. That is why I train in multiple scenarios. It's not about being better, it's about being smarter and more aware so you can react correctly. *

What would you do if you injured or maimed someone you know by accident and this prevents them from ever living a normal life? *What is the difference between injured or maimed? Either way, render them first aid as soon as the threat has been neutralized irregardless of if they were the attacker or an innocent bystander. *

What would you do if you killed someone you know by accident? *Live with it. Nothing in life is guaranteed. What would you do if you killed someone by accident? Guns are not the only cause of death. *

What if your assailant has far better hand to hand techniques and takes your gun from you? *Most shootings happen at 7 yds. There is a reason for that, a well trained shooter does not pull a gun in a hand to hand scenario. I carry a Ka-Bar TDI for those scenarios, it's design makes it near impossible to take. You really have no experience in self defense do you. *

Do you know for certain that these situations above can't or won't happen to you? *No. Do you know for certain you won't come home tonight and not find your wife in bed with 7 dwarves? You hope not, you believe not. But you still married her based on that hope and belief. I have trained to avoid those situations to the best of my ability. That is better than hoping and believing. *

Do you feel that your life is always in clear and present danger? *Nope. My life is actually quite boring, but shit does happen and it usually happens when least expected. Do you believe your home will be robbed tonight? If not why lock your doors? *
As said by others. Your questions are not questions that are normally asked by those experienced in combat or self defense. They are questions asked by liberal antifa skittlecorns that wish to impose on the 2nd amendment rights of Americans so they can further their own pointless socialist and fascist agendas.

I took an oath to defend this country and those who live in it from all enemies foreign and domestic. That oath did not end when I was discharged from the military. And yes, though we don't agree if I saw you being attacked I'd join the fight. I'd have to think about which side though.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> As said by others. Your questions are not questions that are normally asked by those experienced in combat or self defense. They are questions asked by liberal antifa skittlecorns that wish to impose on the 2nd amendment rights of Americans so they can further their own pointless socialist and fascist agendas.
> 
> I took an oath to defend this country and those who live in it from all enemies foreign and domestic. That path did not end when I was discharged from the military. And yes, though we don't agree if I saw you being attacked I'd join the fight. I'd have to think about which side though.


Id watch, laugh, and enjoy the irony.


----------



## BobMarley (Feb 12, 2019)

Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


Shot placement is far more important than caliber.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

BobMarley said:


> Shot placement is far more important than caliber.


Lol right? Dude assuming the opposite really shows how little he knows. This whole thing is like Anti-vaxxers criticizing doctors. "Well what do you know anyways!"


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Lower cali


OMG GO! said:


> Lol right? Dude assuming the opposite really shows how little he knows. This whole thing is like Anti-vaxxers criticizing doctors. "Well what do you know anyways!"


Lower caliber is typically more accurate than higher caliber. Less kick, quicker recovery time for that 2nd and subsequent shot.

A 50 cal is cool, but a real ***** to handle in a gunfight.



Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


Actually I'd be like nice gun. Is that a kimber 1911? I always wanted one of those.

He's only showing it.

Heres a scenario for you.

Your out driving Uber, have a great night and make $28 plus a tip. All excited you drive home, ready to show the wife you got 3 packs of ramen noodles and everyone gets their own plus saltines.

You pull in the drive and notice the front door open. You hear screams from inside. You log to the front door and your wife is on the floor, your daughter is being raped and your son and dog are both dead.

A. Call 911
B. Run in and try to beat up the rapist?
C. Go into shock and beg him to stop. 
D. Pull your gun and resolve the situation right then.

Feel free to answer. Most likely that scenario will never happen to you, but if it did what would you do?

Just so you know, for me:

D. Pull gun aim and fire 2 rounds center mass. 
B. Draw my Ka-Bar and enter and slice his throat to ensure he is dead. 
C. Call 911 and advise them I need police ambulance and a coroner.

What would you do?


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Lower caliber is typically more accurate than higher caliber. Less kick, quicker recovery time for that 2nd and subsequent shot.
> 
> A 50 cal is cool, but a real @@@@@ to handle in a gunfight.


My carry is a shield 9mm, easy to keep on target with follow up shots.

My home defense is a glock 21sf with a bright ass tac light (TLR-1 i think it is) so i can ID whos in the house before i do anything as well as blind the ****. Also, .45 defense rounds dont go thru walls so well, so safer for the job as i understand it. I also can keep the follow up shots easily on target, its just too big for any sort of regular carry for me.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Lower cali
> 
> Lower caliber is typically more accurate than higher caliber. Less kick, quicker recovery time for that 2nd and subsequent shot.
> 
> A 50 cal is cool, but a real @@@@@ to handle in a gunfight.


I disagree with the caliber comment. I shoot my sub compact .45 acp a little better than my compact 9mm. My micro .380 acp the smallest cartridge I carry is also snappiest and takes slightly longer than the other two for follow up shots.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Lower cali
> 
> Lower caliber is typically more accurate than higher caliber. Less kick, quicker recovery time for that 2nd and subsequent shot.
> 
> ...


They belive they have to let the criminal have thier way, and its their duty to be a victim. Either that or they dont believe violent criminal acts ever happen.




FLKeys said:


> I disagree with the caliber comment. I shoot my sub compact .45 acp a little better than my compact 9mm. My micro .380 acp the smallest cartridge I carry is also snappiest and takes slightly longer than the other two for follow up shots.


"What is best for you may not be best for me." Its not caliber thats important, its using what you can most effectively wield, whatever that may be.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Ever shoot a .500 S&W with a 700 gr bullet? Talk about pure joy. Best therapy I know of. When ever I am stressed and tense an hour or two at the range with the final gun being 5-10 shots of .500 S&W and all my tension and stress is gone.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> Here is a question for you.
> 
> Ever have a criminal come up to you to rob you by pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger while you were complying 100%?
> 
> I have, and thank god the gun misfired and jammed or I may not be here today. Sure changed my perspective on self protection.


Yes I have had many weapons pointed and used toward me, mostly knives, knuckles, batons, pepper spray.... only one gun that ultimately turned out to be fake, that guy woke up in the hospital in handcuffs charged with weapons dangerous by the police... I worked in a few bars/nightclubs/private parties over the years... many of these people were arrested by me or one of the other security staff and were handed over to the police.


----------



## ToughTommy (Feb 26, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


I'm in uptight NJ
Wish I could carry


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> Ever shoot a .500 S&W with a 700 gr bullet? Talk about pure joy. Best therapy I know of. When ever I am stressed and tense an hour or two at the range with the final gun being 5-10 shots of .500 S&W and all my tension and stress is gone.


I am lined up to shoot a BMG at a local range.


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

If you have to carry a gun in this world to feel safe, you’re a wimp. No arguments you gun toting sissymarys!


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

kc ub'ing! said:


> If you have to carry a gun in this world to feel safe, you're a wimp. No arguments you gun toting sissymarys!


Youd have a point if violent crime didnt exist. Since it does, youre just another moron. Congratulations for letting us all know.

P.s. its not about feeling safe, its about being able to defend yourself or loved ones should you need to. Do you wear a seatbelt to feel safe? Wimp! See how dumb that sounds? Hope that helps.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

A 


kc ub'ing! said:


> If you have to carry a gun in this world to feel safe, you're a wimp. No arguments you gun toting sissymarys!


sissymary is the guy who says I'm calling the police and them begs them to come save him while his family is being raped and murdered.

I bet you call the cops if the paperboy misses your porch.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Lower cali
> 
> Lower caliber is typically more accurate than higher caliber. Less kick, quicker recovery time for that 2nd and subsequent shot.
> 
> ...


HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

.....ok I will play ..... ?

1 yep 911..... as soon as I have neutralized the immediate threat and attack.

2 yep.... beat the crap out of him

3 hhhmmm.... given the first two answers

4 no need for a gun.... got soooooo many other weapons all around me, after all I am in MY house right? And many of these other weapons can have the same result if so desired..but for sure that rapist will have a few broken bones.

And heck man... all I made in this hypothetical event was $28.00....really.... but I do like that ramen stuff ...:roflmao:

And regarding your actions.... of course the gun, a bit messy with the throat slash.



BlueNOX said:


> A
> 
> sissymary is the guy who says I'm calling the police and them begs them to come save him while his family is being raped and murdered.
> 
> I bet you call the cops if the paperboy misses your porch.


Come on... how many times has that happened to you? For real.... you play that scenario as though it is very common in your life.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> I am lined up to shoot a BMG at a local range.


All the .50 BMG's I shot are no more recoil than a 12 gauge shotgun with 3" magnum slugs. I also find them very relaxing to shoot. I have been called a recoil junkie by many of my friends. By the end of the year I will own one.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

FLKeys said:


> All the .50 BMG's I shot are no more recoil than a 12 gauge shotgun with 3" magnum slugs. I also find the very relaxing to shoot. I have been called a recoil junkie by many of my friends.


You have issue FL. I'm gonna loan ya my Kimber 50 to work them out.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Youd have a point if violent crime didnt exist. Since it does, youre just another moron. Congratulations for letting us all know.
> 
> P.s. its not about feeling safe, its about being able to defend yourself or loved ones should you need to. Do you wear a seatbelt to feel safe? Wimp! See how dumb that sounds? Hope that helps.


False equivalence.... the use of seat belts does not come remotely close to the use of a gun.



FLKeys said:


> All the .50 BMG's I shot are no more recoil than a 12 gauge shotgun with 3" magnum slugs. I also find them very relaxing to shoot. I have been called a recoil junkie by many of my friends. By the end of the year I will own one.


Cool.... good to know, 12 guage shotguns are fun.... I was thinking it would be a far bigger hit in the shoulder.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Kevin.G said:


> False equivalence.... the use of seat belts does not come remotely close to the use of a gun.


Relevant equivalence. Being prepared for the worst is a rational thing to do. Ranting that no matter the accident you dont need a seatbelt cause you can handle any scenario without it is whats being said here.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> You have issue FL. I'm gonna loan ya my Kimber 50 to work them out.


.50 GI or .50 AE?

I was not impressed by the .50 GI in a modified Glock. Have not shot the .50 AE yet, have my eyes on a Desert Eagle.


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

OMG GO! said:


> Do you wear a seatbelt to feel safe? Wimp!


Yes but not to feel safe to be safer. It's a precaution! I just don't need a gun to feel safe when amongst my fellow peoples.

Those who do are wimps with unthreatening genitalia. A gun somehow makes a difference for them.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Kevin.G said:


> HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....
> 
> .....ok I will play ..... ?
> 
> ...


So your dog and son are dead. Wife beaten laying on the floor, daughter violently raped and you choose to ignore the gun and go for a household item as a weapon to break a few bones?

By the way, you can't beat the crap out of them after the threat is neutralized, that is excessive force by definition.

Now in reality, perp has overpowered 3 people and killed a dog. You believe your strong enough and well trained enough to take him out with a household item. Do you think he's going to wait for you to choose one? The feather duster maybe, make him sneeze and then poke him in the eye with the handle. The toilet brush? You can scratch him up real good with that. I got it, the lamp. Rats only ceiling fans for lights. I know, your gonna grab the wooden spoon and granny spank him. Maybe you can twist his ear too.

Come back to earth. Gun or cower.

Since your so against guns maybe you should just close the door and give them privacy.



FLKeys said:


> .50 GI or .50 AE?
> 
> I was not impressed by the .50 GI in a modified Glock. Have not shot the .50 AE yet, have my eyes on a Desert Eagle.


AE


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Yes but not to feel safe to be safer. It's a precaution! I just don't need a gun to feel safe when amongst my fellow peoples.
> 
> Those who do are wimps with unthreatening genitalia. A gun somehow makes a difference for them.


I don't carry a gun to feel safe. I carry a gun to have the tools I may need to save my of a loved ones life.
I don't wear a seat belt to feel safe. I wear it to have better protection in case of an accident.
I don't have a fire extinguisher in my car to feel safe. I have it to have a better chance of putting out a fire if I have one.
I don't have smoke detectors in my house to feel safe, I have them to give me a better chance at detecting a fire and getting out quicker.
I don't have locks on my doors to feel safe, I have them to help deter a break in and give me more time to react if I am at home.

I could go on.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Yes but not to feel safe to be safer. It's a precaution! I just don't need a gun to feel safe when amongst my fellow peoples.
> 
> Those who do are wimps with unthreatening genitalia. A gun somehow makes a difference for them.


You really have a hard time making a good point dont you? You almost had it, then you reverted back to idiot mode.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

A gun, knife, taser, wooden spoon or a toilet brush are all simply tools with specific jobs in mind. If your Kevin G the toilet brush is your go to tool. 

What those arguing aren’t getting is that it takes training to read and react to a situation. No one who carries ever wants to fire their weapon in self defense or the defense of another. None of us want to hurt another person and we definitely don’t want to kill anyone. But we are realists. We know from life experience, wisdom, that bad people do exist. As things happen. 

When I took that oath at 18 I pledged, swore, to defend this country and those who live here. It doesn’t matter if the victim is me, family, friend, neighbor or an unknown name, if they are being attacked I am going to step up. If they are stranded on the side of the road I will give them that ride, short at the grocery store offer up that dollar even if I have to put something back. Sick I’ll bring you soup and some theraflu, injures I’m gonna wrap your wound. It’s how I was raised. 

Carrying is not about being scared or a badass, most people have no clue I’m carrying. They have no need to know. Over half a million lives a year are saved in the US by gun carrying citizens it’s estimated. I want to be one of those statistics, not the statistic of someone murdered by a criminal. I want everyone to be in that saved statistic. 

Criminals have and use guns every day, multiple times a day. I will not cower because I have the right to carry but choose to be a wimp who doesn’t carry. As a man and an American it is my responsibility to ensure the life, liberty and happiness of every person I can while they are in my presence. Yes, I pray to God I never have to fire a weapon in anger again, but rest assured, if I am there when your being attacked irregardless of who you are or what your beliefs are I will utilize everything within my power including my guns to make sure you survive. 

If you can’t respect that I don’t give a rats petunias, I’m still going to do it and I don’t need to hear thanks.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> I'd never open carry as you lose your biggest advantage, which is surprise, but I'd always conceal carry.


If you appear to be a weak target you are more likely to be targeted in the first place.

But obviously you can't open carry or you'll get a complaint from Uber and be deactivated.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Yes but not to feel safe to be safer. It's a precaution! I just don't need a gun to feel safe when amongst my fellow peoples.
> 
> Those who do are wimps with unthreatening genitalia. A gun somehow makes a difference for them.


Tell us please, how many threats has your genitalia neutralized? Lives saved by your penis? Rapes prevented with your testacles? Please tell. And yeah, we ain't gonna believe without confirmed unedited video.



Trafficat said:


> If you appear to be a weak target you are more likely to be targeted in the first place.
> 
> But obviously you can't open carry or you'll get a complaint from Uber and be deactivated.


Actually in AZ I can and do open carry while driving Uber. Open carry is legal here AND Uber and Lyfts policies are Null and Void per the star of AZ open carry law.

So no, I can't and won't be deactivated for it.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

OldBay said:


> The vast majority of people in our country, 99%+ live their everyday lives NOT carrying.
> 
> Is everyone else stupid? Or do they conduct themselves in a way that they don't need a gun?


The vast majority of people who are confronted by a mass shooter are helplessly slaughtered. The vast majority of women who are raped are defenseless. The vast majority of Uber drivers attacked by a machete wielding maniac become shashime.

Doing the same thing as the majority does is not always an indication of making a superior choice.


> I think the OP displayed a collosal lack of judgement in flashing the gun. Probably not the kind of person who should be carrying.


From reading his story, I too questioned the logic behind flashing the gun. The guy may have been up to no good, but legally speaking, the threat of lethal force is not justified until there is an actual attack.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

_https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna963766_
This is an example of someone looking weak. A Lyft driver murdered here in the Phoenix Valley, pregnant. Go ahead, read.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> Actually in AZ I can and do open carry while driving Uber. Open carry is legal here AND Uber and Lyfts policies are Null and Void per the star of AZ open carry law.
> 
> So no, I can't and won't be deactivated for it.


Very interesting if true. I would have expected the companies to simply deactivate you upon complaint and for you to have no recourse. Have passengers commented on it? I'm almost kind of wondering if you just haven't had anyone complain yet. I open carried daily before driving for Uber for years and most people didn't seem to care, but one day I walked past someone's house and they started yelling insults at me and said they were calling the cops. All it might take is one passenger like that to test whether Uber or Lyft care about the law in AZ.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> The vast majority of people who are confronted by a mass shooter are helplessly slaughtered. The vast majority of women who are raped are defenseless. The vast majority of Uber drivers attacked by a machete wielding maniac become shashime.
> 
> Doing the same thing as the majority does is not always an indication of making a superior choice.
> 
> From reading his story, I too questioned the logic behind flashing the gun. The guy may have been up to no good, but legally speaking, the threat of lethal force is not justified until there is an actual attack.


Actually if the speech or actions makes one reasonably fear it is justified. Varies by state, in AZ where this occurred that is the law. Further, open carry is legal in AZ so flashing by moving a sport coat slightly is not against the law. Unholstering and pointing is.



Trafficat said:


> Very interesting if true. I would have expected the companies to simply deactivate you upon complaint and for you to have no recourse. Have passengers commented on it? I'm almost kind of wondering if you just haven't had anyone complain yet. I open carried daily before driving for Uber for years and most people didn't seem to care, but one day I walked past someone's house and they started yelling insults at me and said they were calling the cops. All it might take is one passenger like that to test whether Uber or Lyft care about the law in AZ.


They have. I was suspended for about 2 hours, got a call from California. Went over the facts. Weapon in its holster in the drivers door, not visible unless door is opened. Reviewed the law for AZ and the fact that the law says an employers policy is Null and Void unless the employer owns or leases the vehicle and that if an employer terminated an employee over carrying then they owe pay up to $50k.

At the end of the call the gentleman thanked me and unsuspended me. Said he just had to verify I was following the laws for the state of AZ. Basically same thing in FL to, just depends on the parking/transportation section of your states gun law to determine if you can or can not.

Ever notice this:










That little to the extent under applicable law part. It's referring to states that prohibit Uber's policy.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> So your dog and son are dead. Wife beaten laying on the floor, daughter violently raped and you choose to ignore the gun and go for a household item as a weapon to break a few bones?
> 
> By the way, you can't beat the crap out of them after the threat is neutralized, that is excessive force by definition.
> 
> ...


:laugh: This was your _very silly hypothetical, not real world_, game.... so..... sure, you can move them goalposts anywhere you would like. :laugh:

And where the heck did you get the notion that I hate guns? I actually like to shoot. And I have said so a few times. 
And ...oh no....I actually support legal gun ownership.... I don't support open or conceal carry, still have not seen or read or heard of any real world evidence or reasons to support it.

So till such time as that evidence is had, my opinion on the matter will remain that it is not necessary for the general masses.... conversely, it may be necessary for certain individuals in rare evidence based cases.

... Alas ...

It seems to me that you just want to get into an ongoing pissing match.... yeah not gonna happen.... so big guy, your piss is danker than mine... you good now?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Reviewed the law for AZ and the fact that the law says an employers policy is Null and Void unless...


I live in Texas. But I've worked in Louisiana quite a bit.

In Louisiana, state law says that an employer cannot prohibit legal firearms from being stored in cars in the parking lot used by their employees.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Kevin.G said:


> I don't support open or conceal carry, still have not seen or read or heard of any real world evidence or reasons to support it.


Then you are avoiding it in order to maintain this argument. Pointless.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Relevant equivalence. Being prepared for the worst is a rational thing to do. Ranting that no matter the accident you dont need a seatbelt cause you can handle any scenario without it is whats being said here.


I can only assume you have a bomb shelter?


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

justaGoober said:


> I can only assume you have a bomb shelter?


Given that we are much less likely to need one of those than afirearm and the VAST difference in cost, no I dont deem that necessary. Especially since ive had post nuclear attack training in USAF SERE school, its near pointless. Its just a coffin for a slow death.

I see where youre trying to go, but youre just gonna fail because like others here, you arent thinking rationally. Enjoy going at life that way.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Then you are avoiding it in order to maintain this argument. Pointless.


So you are saying that there is actual evidence to support cc/oc.... well then.... post up a link so I can change my point of view.... without that evidence there is nothing to avoid.


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

OMG GO! said:


> You really have a hard time making a good point dont you? You almost had it, then you reverted back to idiot mode.


And you're almost perceptive. I make my point, eloquently as ever, then end with a jocular bon mot poking fun at the gun wussies.

Granted, my style isn't for everyone. But my likes to post ratio speaks for itself.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Kevin.G said:


> So you are saying that there is actual evidence to support cc/oc.... well then.... post up a link so I can change my point of view.... without that evidence there is nothing to avoid.


I need to google for you? Im just getting some steaks ready to throw on the grill, but ill google that for you mr broken fingers, if someone else hasnt before i return.



kc ub'ing! said:


> And you're almost perceptive. I make my point, eloquently as ever, then end with a jocular bon mot poking fun at the gun wussies.
> 
> Granted, my style isn't for everyone. But my likes to post ratio speaks for itself.


LMFAO "eloquently" that was anything but. You even had it with the seatbelt analogy but were too dumb too realize it.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Yes but not to feel safe to be safer. It's a precaution! I just don't need a gun to feel safe when amongst my fellow peoples.
> 
> Those who do are wimps with unthreatening genitalia. A gun somehow makes a difference for them.


You're funny.
???


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

OMG GO! said:


> LMFAO "eloquently" that was anything but. You even had it with the seatbelt analogy but were too dumb too realize it.


Referring to your intellectual superiors as 'dumb', is a sign of insecurity. Please don't take me so seriously.

It's just tongue in cheek ballbusting! I don't want to be the cause of further emotional damage. Send one of you nutters out on a rampage.

Hmm... only gun owners go on shooting sprees.... something to ponder... Habitual wife beaters too I understand...


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Given that we are much less likely to need one of those than afirearm and the VAST difference in cost, no I dont deem that necessary. Especially since ive had post nuclear attack training in USAF SERE school, its near pointless. Its just a coffin for a slow death.
> 
> I see where youre trying to go, but youre just gonna fail because like others here, you arent thinking rationally. Enjoy going at life that way.


Well, we're all already in a virtual coffin slowly dying already.

I have no problem with those that chose to carry - I believe it's more of a hobby because some people love guns, which is fine by me, assuming they are properly trained and of sound mind. I just chose not to spend energy worrying about every Tom, Dick and Harry that I come across, and wonder if I need to draw (or flash) my weapon if they look at me the wrong way. Nor do I want to spend the time/energy/overhead dealing with a gun all the time.

And if Tom, Dick, or Harry ends up taking me (or my family) out early, then I guess I lost that 1 in a million bet.

....but, as I said, we're already dying slowly anyway. And my hope isn't on this earth; It's with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I bet you didn't think that's where I was going!


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Well, we're all already in a virtual coffin slowly dying already.
> 
> I have no problem with those that chose to carry - I believe it's more of a hobby because some people love guns, which is fine by me, assuming they are properly trained and of sound mind. I just chose not to spend energy worrying about every Tom, Dick and Harry that I come across, and wonder if I need to draw (or flash) my weapon if they look at me the wrong way. Nor do I want to spend the time/energy/overhead dealing with a gun all the time.
> 
> ...


You know, people pray to the Lord, Jesus Christ and The Savior to do things for them. Cure disease, but won't listen to a Dr. Save them from a flood but won't leave with the rescue boat and so many other things. He said God helps those who help themselves. But yet, you want you and your family to be safe but refuse to use the tools he has given you. You trust a lock on a door more than your own ability to determine and neutralize a threat.

Hmmmm.



Christinebitg said:


> I live in Texas. But I've worked in Louisiana quite a bit.
> 
> In Louisiana, state law says that an employer cannot prohibit legal firearms from being stored in cars in the parking lot used by their employees.


Check to see also if there is a penalty if the employer tries it.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Referring to your intellectual superiors as 'dumb', is a sign of insecurity. Please don't take me so seriously.
> 
> It's just tongue in cheek ballbusting! I don't want to be the cause of further emotional damage. Send one of you nutters out on a rampage.
> 
> Hmm... only gun owners go on shooting sprees.... something to ponder... Habitual wife beaters too I understand...


Telling people you are their "intellectual superior" is a sure sign of the opposite. Have you been on the subreddit r/iamverysmart ? Youd fit right in.

Oh hey, broken fingers i havent forgotten about googling that for ya. Steaks about to hit the grill, ill be back.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> You know, people pray to the Lord, Jesus Christ and The Savior to do things for them. Cure disease, but won't listen to a Dr. Save them from a flood but won't leave with the rescue boat and so many other things. He said God helps those who help themselves. But yet, you want you and your family to be safe but refuse to use the tools he has given you. You trust a lock on a door more than your own ability to determine and neutralize a threat.
> 
> Hmmmm.


There are all kinds of threats/risks everywhere, everyday. I chose to ride a motorcycle. Do you think that's unwise? Far more dangerous than not carrying a weapon, wouldn't you agree? We each have our own threshold for risk/danger and decide what mitigation to take, if any. You (and your family) have a much higher chance of dying by a heart attack than being killed by a thug....Do you carry a defibrillator with you?

Hmmmm


----------



## Munsuta (May 4, 2019)

When confronted with a animal, one must become a beast.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> There are all kinds of threats/risks everywhere, everyday. I chose to ride a motorcycle. Do you think that's unwise? Far more dangerous than not carrying a weapon, wouldn't you agree? We each have our own threshold for risk/danger and decide what mitigation to take, if any. You (and your family) have a much higher chance of dying by a heart attack than being killed by a thug....Do you carry a defibrillator with you?
> 
> Hmmmm


Yes, motorcycles have more risks than a handgun. Multiple simultaneous risks on a fairly regular basis.

As far as heart attack vs gun deaths that is partly determined by age. A five year old is more likely to die from a gun than a 95 ur old. Same holds true for teens.

1.3 million people die each year from heart attacks. 
1.25 million die each year in auto accidents. 
13,286 people die from guns each year not counting suicides, as they are self inflicted. 
3 million burglaries each year.

To combat heart attacks we eat healthy. 
Auto we buckle up, anti-lock breaks and many other new things to prevent them. 
Burglaries we install alarms and lock our doors.

All of those claim approx 100 times more lives than guns, but we blame guns for everything. Guns don't cause heart attacks. Guns don't crash cars. Guns don't break into houses, okay they could shoot a lock with a burglars help.

Now, guns do save an estimated 500,000 lives each year by deterring attackers/criminals. Think about that. 500,000 lives every year, that's 1,369 lives saved every day because someone carries a gun here in the United States.

In the US more people die from unintentional falls in the home than guns. 34,673 fall deaths in the home. That means your 2.6 times more likely to die from falling than a gun. But we don't have laws outlawing houses. We don't require builders to make a safer house with slip proof floors and foam padded walls.



kc ub'ing! said:


> Referring to your intellectual superiors as 'dumb', is a sign of insecurity. Please don't take me so seriously.
> 
> It's just tongue in cheek ballbusting! I don't want to be the cause of further emotional damage. Send one of you nutters out on a rampage.
> 
> Hmm... only gun owners go on shooting sprees.... something to ponder... Habitual wife beaters too I understand...


Actually, a number of shooting sprees have been stolen guns, not legal gun owners.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Yes, motorcycles have more risks than a handgun. Multiple simultaneous risks on a fairly regular basis.
> 
> As far as heart attack vs gun deaths that is partly determined by age. A five year old is more likely to die from a gun than a 95 ur old. Same holds true for teens.
> 
> ...


Your whole response to my post was defending gun ownership. Did I ever say I was against guns?

I just said I chose not to carrry, to which you implied that was not wise. So I ask why you don't carry a defibrillator, and you go in a rant about gun rights...


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

OMG GO! said:


> Telling people you are their "intellectual superior" is a sure sign of the opposite


Ah, a variant on the old, 'I'm rubber you're glue' gambit. Well played sir! You have vanquished me.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

justaGoober said:


> There are all kinds of threats/risks everywhere, everyday. I chose to ride a motorcycle. Do you think that's unwise? Far more dangerous than not carrying a weapon, wouldn't you agree? We each have our own threshold for risk/danger and decide what mitigation to take, if any. You (and your family) have a much higher chance of dying by a heart attack than being killed by a thug....Do you carry a defibrillator with you?
> 
> Hmmmm


You really cant see the flaw in your logic can you?

@Kevin.G take your pick. By the way, theres this site called google where you can look things up like news stories. Its wild.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...j0i22i30j0i22i10i30j33i160j33i299.ADaCIBMshfE


kc ub'ing! said:


> Ah, a variant on the old, 'I'm rubber you're glue' gambit. Well played sir! You have vanquished me.


Yea..... you think thats not what you did in the comment i was responding to? Jesus you embody the r/iamverysmart to a ****in T.

Im just gonna drop this here to see who gets thier panties in a wad over it.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Your whole response to my post was defending gun ownership. Did I ever say I was against guns?
> 
> I just said I chose not to carrry, to which you implied that was not wise. So I ask why you don't carry a defibrillator, and you go in a rant about gun rights...


You said more likely to die of a heart attack than guns. I just had fun with numbers. The fact that you allegedly like guns (which I don't believe as you come across as a narcissistic facist antifa screaming far left wing we have to ban tic taxes because an elephant ate one and it gave him unnatural breath activist) and yet say people should not carry.

I'm curious, the right to bear arms is within the bill of rights. Second amendment to help you find it, hate to stress you out on spelling google. Who are you or any of the far left to infringe upon the rights of honest Americans. True Americans. The Americans who stand and defend this country, the Americans who sign that blank check willing to die to defend you. Why should I care about your facist opinion?


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> _https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna963766_
> This is an example of someone looking weak. A Lyft driver murdered here in the Phoenix Valley, pregnant. Go ahead, read.


If she had a gun, she'd still be dead.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Dine on this:

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/05/uber-driver-in-chicago-stops-mass-public-shooting/


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

BlueNOX,
I'm not anti gun, just anti-idiots who flash a gun and shouldn't be carrying. Guns are not on trial, your actions are.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> You said more likely to die of a heart attack than guns. I just had fun with numbers. The fact that you allegedly like guns (which I don't believe as you come across as a narcissistic facist antifa screaming far left wing we have to ban tic taxes because an elephant ate one and it gave him unnatural breath activist) and yet say people should not carry.
> 
> I'm curious, the right to bear arms is within the bill of rights. Second amendment to help you find it, hate to stress you out on spelling google. Who are you or any of the far left to infringe upon the rights of honest Americans. True Americans. The Americans who stand and defend this country, the Americans who sign that blank check willing to die to defend you. Why should I care about your facist opinion?


Wow! I say, "I don't want to carry, and I have no problem with others carrying". And that makes me a "narcissistic facist antifa screaming far left wing...".

Never mind...


----------



## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> 1. No
> 2.ill win the violent encounter i was forced into. If i can avoid it, i will.
> 3. Thats why you train
> 4. Why does that even matter? If you assume maybe not you just give up? So dumb, but yes i think my civilian and military training makes me MUCH better than your average POS criminal.
> ...


⚠The little pee pee crowd with their Glocks love ❤ to Escalate situations.
Their response is not proportional to the non threat ?
?The courts know this. 
And subsequently the little pee pee's are incarcerated.
@OMG GO! future is locked up wearing a skirt


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> If she had a gun, she'd still be dead.


Youre right, why even have a fighting chance? Just die.



RabbleRouser said:


> ⚠The little pee pee crowd with their Glocks love ❤ to Escalate situations.
> Their response is not proportional to the non threat ?
> ?The courts know this.
> And subsequently the little pee pee's are incarcerated.
> @OMG GO! future is locked up wearing a skirt


Are you high?


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> ⚠The little pee pee crowd with their Glocks love ❤ to Escalate situations.
> Their response is not proportional to the non threat ?
> ?The courts know this.
> And subsequently the little pee pee's are incarcerated.
> @OMG GO! future is locked up wearing a skirt


Ive gone shooting with gun owning "friends" before. I suspect they all harbor gun violence fantasies. The have a gleam in their eye when they are putting holes in the paper target.

They probably dream about protecting their wife from bad guys (about taking a few rounds in a gun battle and fighting through the pain to save the day), hostage situations resolved with a sniper rifle, or running into a middle school under lock down and taking out the shooter. Or maybe surviving in the woods for weeks with only a rifle, a few rounds of ammo, and a bowie knife. People don't collect guns without having these kind of fantasies, just like guys dont buy guitars without fantasizing about performing to a large audience.

Really not against guns, they are a tool. But sadly most gun owners are also tools.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> Ive gone shooting with gun owning "friends" before. I suspect they all harbor gun violence fantasies. The have a gleam in their eye when they are putting holes in the paper target.
> 
> They probably dream about protecting their wife from bad guys (about taking a few rounds in a gun battle and fighting through the pain to save the day), hostage situations resolved with a sniper rifle, or running into a middle school under lock down and taking out the shooter. Or maybe surviving in the woods for weeks with only a rifle, a few rounds of ammo, and a bowie knife. People don't collect guns without having these kind of fantasies, just like guys dont buy guitars without fantasizing about performing to a large audience.
> 
> Really not against guns, they are a tool. But sadly most gun owners are also tools.


So now your a 73 year old psychologist that drives Uber as a hobby in Baltimore who has done tons of research to come to these conclusions:

1. No fantasy of running into a school during a school shooting. That would get me shot by law enforcement real fast. Bad idea. Wait, do I get to use my AR or do I have to use your ding a ling?

2. I don't owna Bowie knife. Never liked how they feel really. Not a huge knife fan. I do own a Ka-Bar TDI for self defense while driving. Far more effective in a close space fight. Hand gun bad. Rifle very very bad inside a car. I tried when I tried out to play Rambo, the dang bump stock kept hitting the steering wheel.

3. I don't want to take any rounds in a gun battle. I'm allergic to being shot. It hurts, swells, discolored and leaks everywhere. Getting shot is a real hassle, blows the entire schedule for the day. Plus the paperwork. Omg the paperwork on getting shot. The insurance forms. Dealing with the adjuster. No, no fantasy of getting shot.

4. I also don't like sniper rifles. To bulky. Single shot then you have to manually eechamber the next round. Hard to slip in your belt holster. Have you ever tried to should holster carry a sniper rifle. My gawd, talk about a woody in the wrong spot. Can you say bulge from hell. Way to embarrassing. Legal in all 50 states but embarrassing none the less.

5. I live in the desert dude. It was 105 degrees here today. Why in the same hell would I go out into that wilderness to live for weeks when I have a perfectly good house with air conditioning. Seriously old man, this sounds like a Baltimore not Phoenix fantasy. You wanna go live in the woods go ahead, it'll be our whittle pee pee secret.

6. That gleam in our eye is the damn gun powder residue. Gets us high as a kite. We see skittlecorns when we shoot hundreds of rounds. We dream of shooting Art Modell. If you knew me like you claim to you'd get that joke old man.

7. I did buy a guitar once. No fantasy though. Not for a second. It was a Christmas gift for one of my daughters. Got her a nice amp too. These really cool headphones so she can practice and the rest of the family has peace. I know, your to old to know what an amp and headphones are.

Mic Drop



OldBay said:


> If she had a gun, she'd still be dead.


Pregnant mom who worked to care for her family and not take welfare and you don't think she deserved a chance? This woman fought back hand to hand. She managed to get out of the car and run. I bet if she had a weapon she'd be alive. That's a hell of a fight she put up.


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> Actually, a number of shooting sprees have been stolen guns, not legal gun owners.


Uh yeah! Folks who steal guns are the most committed gun owners! Risking incarnation to get that gat. Gotta respect that brand of nimrod. "hmm my winky is small and ineffectual yet I can't afford to pay for instant masculinity..."


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> BlueNOX,
> I'm not anti gun, just anti-idiots who flash a gun and shouldn't be carrying. Guns are not on trial, your actions are.


You are an anti-gun fascist, your just trying to lie and hide. But isn't that what fascists do, like your daddy Adolf Hitler. Lie to people, try to act innocent and then slowly let the truth out.

And by the way, slightly moving a sport coat to show a holstered gun is NOT flashing a weapon. Maybe in your liberal garbage star of Maryland, but not in AZ



kc ub'ing! said:


> Uh yeah! Folks who steal guns are the most committed gun owners! Risking incarnation to get that gat. Gotta respect that brand of nimrod. "hmm my winky is small and ineffectual yet I can't afford to pay for instant masculinity..."


You do realize that someone who steals a gun is no more a gun owner than a car thief owning the stolen car their in.

This post shows how stupid the liberals are. Seriously, how stupid were you to come up with this argument.


----------



## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> This post shows how stupid the liberals are. Seriously, how stupid were you to come up with this argument.


Its not even fun messing with you dolts. You miss so much. How can one enjoy busting balls when you pity the saps your'e successfully ridiculing? Its like I'm embarrassed for you. You're so ill-equipped I actually feel ashamed of myself. 


BlueNOX said:


> Seriously, how stupid were you


So precious! My impulse is to pat you on the head and say, "your'e right slugger! High five, high five!"


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Its not even fun messing with you dolts. You miss so much. How can one enjoy busting balls when you pity the saps your'e successfully ridiculing? Its like I'm embarrassed for you. You're so ill-equipped I actually feel ashamed of myself.
> 
> So precious! My impulse is to pat you on the head and say, "your'e right slugger! High five, high five!"


It was your statement not mine. Such a smart liberal. Run along and grab your mask. Antifa is calling.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Its not even fun messing with you dolts. You miss so much. How can one enjoy busting balls when you pity the saps your'e successfully ridiculing? Its like I'm embarrassed for you. You're so ill-equipped I actually feel ashamed of myself.
> 
> So precious! My impulse is to pat you on the head and say, "your'e right slugger! High five, high five!"


Aww. You baked a cake!
Bless your heart.


----------



## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

OMG GO! said:


> I feel like open carry makes you a target, i wouldnt do it personally.


It does, and I seldom do it.



OldBay said:


> The vast majority of people in our country, 99%+ live their everyday lives NOT carrying.
> 
> I think the OP displayed a collosal lack of judgement in flashing the gun.


The made up statistics are wrong. (see below)

I agree with the 2nd part. Flashing a gun is never a good idea unless you are drawing.



BlueNOX said:


> 6.6% of the US population has a CCW.
> 42%!of US Households own guns.
> 31 states do NOT require a CCW to carry a handgun openly or concealed.


Come November, Oklahoma will be a Constitutional Carry State. I still keep my ccw for if I travel to other states.



RabbleRouser said:


> Poor folk love Guns


Guns are not cheap, so your logic is flawed.



Kevin.G said:


> Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger?
> What do you think would happen if you pulled your gun and shots are fired?
> Are you always 100% certain that one of your shots won't injure or kill someone not involved in your fight?
> Do you actually believe that you are better than anyone (criminal or not) you run into that also has a gun?
> ...



Having a gun doesnt make me feel stronger.
The only reason I would be shooting my gun outside of a range would be in self defense. So I would assume I'm defending my life or my family's life. In that situation, afterwards I would call 911 and then my lawyer.
You can't be 100% sure, but proper training helps. You should always know your target and beyond when shooting.
I value my life and my family's life more than someone I don't know.
I would be indebted to them, but the likelihood of that happening is so small it's not something I would consider. Guns don't go off on their own.
See above
That is always a risk, which is why a good holster and training is imperative.
In life there are no gurantee's
Yes, in one way or another. Life is full of risks, which is why we have to take steps to mitigate the risk. One of the reasons I carry car insurance, life insurance, home insurance, and self defense insurance.



FLKeys said:


> Here is a question for you.
> 
> Ever have a criminal come up to you to rob you by pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger while you were complying 100%?
> 
> I have, and thank god the gun misfired and jammed or I may not be here today. Sure changed my perspective on self protection.


I have, minus the pulling the trigger portion. I was robbed last year at my insurance office with a guy that had a 12ga sawed off shotgun. Everything happened so quickly that I had no opportunity to draw on him so I complied and he left. a few days later he robbed a liquor store and the women there managed to shoot him a couple times. He was recently sentenced to 25 years.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151009744864990


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

I think i get it now. These idiots are criminals, upset people dont want be easy targets and think they have a right to rob and assault you without fear of being shot. Criminals, the lot of them.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> The made up statistics are wrong. (see below)


Just because a larger % has ability to carry, does not mean that they do the majority of the time. Many places won't allow it so I suspect the inconvenience and lack of need, most keep their gun at home or legally in the car (in trunk, unloaded).

I would still stand by the estimate that less than 1% of travelers outside their house have a gun on them. Probably less than .02%, or else all the active shooter situations would be put down quickly by citizens with guns. And we know that almost never happens.

If 6%+ are actually carrying, then the majority of them are cowards.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> Just because a larger % has ability to carry, does not mean that they do the majority of the time. Many places won't allow it so I suspect the inconvenience and lack of need, most keep their gun at home or legally in the car (in trunk, unloaded).
> 
> I would still stand by the estimate that less than 1% of travelers outside their house have a gun on them. Probably less than .02%, or else all the active shooter situations would be put down quickly by citizens with guns. And we know that almost never happens.
> 
> If 6%+ are actually carrying, then the majority of them are cowards.


Making up statistics doesnt make any sort of point. Denying readily available facts makes you sound just bitter. Not to mention youve already lost any argument by denying them.

Seriously, how is someone a coward for being prepared to defend themselves incase of a violent attack? Do you think violent criminal acts never happen?


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

OldBay said:


> most keep their gun at home or legally in the car (in trunk, unloaded).


The justification for having a gun that I hear most often is self defense or protection..So if most keep their gun in the trunk or at home, How will you protect yourself? "Wait Mr Bad Guy "my gun is in the trunk, I"ll get it out and loaded in just a minute" or.. "my gun is at home, follow me there, so I can get it"

I've also heard that the right way to keep a gun at home is in a gun safe,unloaded... How do you defend yourself??? Hold up, Mr Bad Guy, I gotta open this safe"



OldBay said:


> I would still stand by the estimate that less than 1% of travelers outside their house have a gun on them. Probably less than .02%, or else all the active shooter situations would be put down quickly by citizens with guns. And we know that almost never happens.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ingle-day-study-finds/?utm_term=.1fd402082d2d
There are over 325 million people in the USA, According to this survey 9 million people (2.7%) carry a gun once a month or more and of them 3 million (less than 1%) carry every day

Looks like OldBay got it right

(remember when Old Bay was something you could only get in Maryland)


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> I very gently pulled back the left side of my sport coat to discreetly show the 40 hanging on my hip. Train. Carry. Train. Train. Train.


Doesn't sound to me like you've been properly trained.


OMG GO! said:


> IMO, you never show your firearm, unless its to draw it.


Omg Go is correct.


TemptingFate said:


> Good thing Dirty Harry was there!


The fictional character "Dirty Harry" carried a Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Mag, not a Springfield XD 40.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Violent crime is inversely proportions to legal gun ownership. Only morons argue this fact.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Violent crime is inversely proportions to legal gun ownership. Only morons argue this fact.


Inversely proportional


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Carrying for self protection or protection of others is wise in this day, but here in Florida it's a criminal offense to display that you're armed when no actual threat is imminent, this is why I stated that carrying a firearm carry's a great deal of liability. As I understand Arizona is an open carry State, unfortunately most States don't allow this.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

U/L guy said:


> Carrying for self protection or protection of others is wise in this day, but here in Florida it's a criminal offense to display that you're armed when no actual threat is imminent, this is why I stated that carrying a firearm carry's a great deal of liability. As I understand Arizona is an open carry State, unfortunately most States don't allow this.


Arizona is open or concealed carry...your choice, no special licensing required.


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Arizona is open or concealed carry...your choice, no special licensing required.


Cops here in Florida are jerks, they will arrest someone for something to appease their superiors.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

U/L guy said:


> Cops here in Florida are jerks, they will arrest someone for something to appease their superiors.


Most police here are pretty good, and seem to support armed citizens.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

theMezz said:


> 1) Peace though superior firepower works.
> 2) Many of these perps are animals - they only understand force.
> *Facts*
> 
> ...


 Your credentials don't impress me but now I understand; strapping on a gun in the morning is like brushing your teeth. Just part of your routine. It's all you know. And bad guys are all you know

And yes I have dealt with bad guys too. Probably not as many as you Have "Kindness" as you call it (I'd call it "respect") is not always where a confrontation ended, but it's usually where i began;



RabbleRouser said:


> ?Men with little pee pees need guns ?and big SUVs ?
> I am in No Need of a either ?. Thx U Lord


 I chose the suv


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Mike, I agree with most of what you said, except for this:


Mikeoftulsa said:


> Guns don't go off on their own.


When I was a kid, one of the neighborhood kids lost his father, who was a police officer. While working, he dropped his handgun, which discharged went it hit the ground. He died from the gunshot wound.

It was a tragic, freak accident. An accident, but he was still dead, sadly.

Christine


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Violent crime is inversely proportions to legal gun ownership. Only morons argue this fact.
> 
> 
> Inversely proportional


 I think you are dealing with old data or just making up facts

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/firearm-prevalence-violent-crime.html


----------



## PatsFan69 (May 3, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> Mike, I agree with most of what you said, except for this:
> 
> When I was a kid, one of the neighborhood kids lost his father, who was a police officer. While working, he dropped his handgun, which discharged went it hit the ground. He died from the gunshot wound.
> 
> ...


That's why every gun has to pass a Drop test. Unless they are defective they should never discharge when dropped.


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> Mike, I agree with most of what you said, except for this:
> 
> When I was a kid, one of the neighborhood kids lost his father, who was a police officer. While working, he dropped his handgun, which discharged went it hit the ground. He died from the gunshot wound.
> 
> ...


Technically, that didn't really go off on its own, but then there is the Remington 700

Currently not a gun owner although I'm considering it.

If I do go that route, it's not to be a macho man. :rollseyes: It would just be another insurance policy that hopefully would never need to be used. Try as I might, this gig occasionally takes me into neighborhoods I would never go to. Odds are, nothing will ever happen, just like I never needed the AD&D or long term disability policies I purchased through work were never used.

Of course, sifting through all of the conservative vs liberal crap for decent advice is a PITA.

Okay, now a question for all you gun nuts. 

In researching numerous ways to secure a gun in a vehicle, none seem necessarily ideal and depending on the situation, it seems like there could be a chance that you might have to bail out of the vehicle leaving the gun behind. I'd want the gun to be as concealed as possible, so the best vehicle option seems to a seat holster for the drivers seat.

If I wanted to keep it on me, wearing a traditional holster would most likely be uncomfortable given seat belt and center console configurations.

What are some opinions on cross draw holsters? This article favors an AIWB over cross draw but I'm not really interested in an IWB and think a cross draw would be more comfortable overall when driving and give me one less thing to think about if I need to bail out of the car.


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Are you implying she is slow you seem to say that she was oblivious to a person standing in front on her staring at her angrily which makes no sense whatsoever. Is she slow to leave the car doors open, is she ignorant to her own safety and her surroundings, that should be a bigger concern to you since you won't be there with a gun each time. You gave a great example as to why you think carrying makes you a badass. You show your gun and the guy thinks you are a badass. What you described was a crazy person, not the ex but the person standing staring which makes no sense unless you are a little person.

Teach her to always be aware of her surroundings, stop the car and take the keys out and close the doors when you are gassing up.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Making up statistics doesnt make any sort of point. Denying readily available facts makes you sound just bitter. Not to mention youve already lost any argument by denying them.
> 
> Seriously, how is someone a coward for being prepared to defend themselves incase of a violent attack? Do you think violent criminal acts never happen?


You aren't following the logic.

If a large% of the population was carrying, then the majority of active shooters would be taken down by civilians with guns. That almost never happens. There was a church shooting last year in TX where a neighbor with a rifle took on the shooter. I can't remember any other shooting incidents where that happened. Hundreds, thousands of people are witnesses to these shootings, but it almost never happens that a civilian comes to the rescue.

I am saying that there is a divergence between the number of people who are registered to carry, and the number of people who actually carry.


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

OldBay said:


> You aren't following the logic.
> 
> If a large% of the population was carrying, then the majority of active shooters would be taken down by civilians with guns. That almost never happens. There was a church shooting last year in TX where a neighbor with a rifle took on the shooter. I can't remember any other shooting incidents where that happened. Hundreds, thousands of people are witnesses to these shootings, but it almost never happens that a civilian comes to the rescue.
> 
> I am saying that there is a divergence between the number of people who are registered to carry, and the number of people who actually carry.


In Parkland at that shooting the cop who wanted to be a hall monitor instead was a coward who hid and waited outside and is being tried now for failing to act. So I think everyone walking around with a gun like this is the wild wild west is a mistake.

If you carry a gun you better pray you don't get into a road rage incident, get mad and kill the person and waste your life in jail. A person without a gun won't get into that situation.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> You aren't following the logic.
> 
> If a large% of the population was carrying, then the majority of active shooters would be taken down by civilians with guns. That almost never happens. There was a church shooting last year in TX where a neighbor with a rifle took on the shooter. I can't remember any other shooting incidents where that happened. Hundreds, thousands of people are witnesses to these shootings, but it almost never happens that a civilian comes to the rescue.
> 
> I am saying that there is a divergence between the number of people who are registered to carry, and the number of people who actually carry.


You are void of logic my dude.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> You are void of logic my dude.


Do you know what logic is?


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

oldfart said:


> The justification for having a gun that I hear most often is self defense or protection..So if most keep their gun in the trunk or at home, How will you protect yourself? "Wait Mr Bad Guy "my gun is in the trunk, I"ll get it out and loaded in just a minute" or.. "my gun is at home, follow me there, so I can get it"
> 
> I've also heard that the right way to keep a gun at home is in a gun safe,unloaded... How do you defend yourself??? Hold up, Mr Bad Guy, I gotta open this safe"
> 
> ...


Ok genius, depends on the local laws. In Colorado its legal to carry loaded in your car without any sort of permit. If its just at home, then fine, you can defend youself at home. IF there are kids in the house ever YES firearms need to be under "lock and key" but there are QUICK ACCESS safes that can be opened by a quick combo finger press combo. You can google these yourself. In the safe, they can sit safely loaded ready for use IF ever need be.

Just because some REFUSE to see the valid reasons to own and /or carry doesnt mean those reaons dont exist.



OldBay said:


> Do you know what logic is?


I use it to trouble shoot and fix aircraft avionics for one. You pull stats and rationale out of your ass.


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

The worst part of having to use a gun is if you kill someone you’ll have to live with that for the rest of your life. I know a lot of former soldiers who had no choice but to take a life in self defense, it still haunts them every day.
Taking a life is not like it’s in a movie, it eats at your conscience until the day you die.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I think you are dealing with old data or just making up facts
> 
> https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/firearm-prevalence-violent-crime.html


No, I am not.
Bad people behave better when they do not know which good people are packing heat.


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> No, I am not.
> Bad people behave better when they do not know which good people are packing heat.


Until they get some heat and put you 6feet under.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

U/L guy said:


> Until they get some heat and put you 6feet under.


Oooo....bullshit.
LOL
???



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Oooo....bullshit.
> LOL
> ???


UPDATED: Compiling Cases where concealed handgun permit holders have stopped mass public shootings and other mass attacks - Crime Prevention Research CenterCrime Prevention Research Center
https://crimeresearch.org/2019/05/uber-driver-in-chicago-stops-mass-public-shooting/


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Oooo....bullshit.
> LOL
> ???


Apparently you never served, I sincerely hope you never have to use a gun on anyone. Your psychological make up is the same as all the kids who played video games of war and then had to deal with the real thing, many are now on antipsychotic medications.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> No, I am not.
> Bad people behave better when they do not know which good people are packing heat.


Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Concealed Carry
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Concealed Carry
> http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/


This conversation began with flashing a weapon, not about the merits of concealed carry.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

U/L guy said:


> This conversation began with flashing a weapon, not about the merits of concealed carry.


Who the hell made you Pope of this dump, "Omnipotent One"?



U/L guy said:


> Apparently you never served, I sincerely hope you never have to use a gun on anyone. Your psychological make up is the same as all the kids who played video games of war and then had to deal with the real thing, many are now on antipsychotic medications.


No SSRIs here, Dr Dopey.
You?


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

U/L guy said:


> The worst part of having to use a gun is if you kill someone you'll have to live with that for the rest of your life. I know a lot of former soldiers who had no choice but to take a life in self defense, it still haunts them every day.
> Taking a life is not like it's in a movie, it eats at your conscience until the day you die.


Thats right. Better that then dead tho.



U/L guy said:


> Until they get some heat and (*try to*) put you 6feet under.


Which is a solid reason to carry.


----------



## mmn (Oct 23, 2015)

Wahn, the most comfortable and easy-to-access while driving are cross-draw and shoulder rigs. There are some cross-draw rigs with an almost horizontal cant made specifically for driving.

And you're right, imo off-body solutions are no bueno (for me).


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

U/L guy said:


> *The worst part of having to use a gun is if you kill someone you'll have to live with that for the rest of your life.* I know a lot of former soldiers who had no choice but to take a life in self defense, it still haunts them every day.
> Taking a life is not like it's in a movie, it eats at your conscience until the day you die.


I agree, and if you are not mentally prepared to accept the fact that you may kill someone then do not carry a gun. If you pull a gun to defend yourself and start seconded guessing the fact that you may kill someone you may get yourself killed. Shoot to stop the threat and nothing more. If the end result is the the bad guy dies it is not your fault but yes you will have to deal with it the rest of your life.


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

mmn said:


> Wahn, the most comfortable and easy-to-access while driving are cross-draw and shoulder rigs. There are some cross-draw rigs with an almost horizontal cant made specifically for driving.
> 
> And you're right, imo off-body solutions are no bueno (for me).


Thanks for the feedback. Not looking to brazenly open carry, so the shoulder is out for me. I guess I'm leaning towards a mostly concealed carry, not that there is such a thing. Untucked shirt would usually conceal it enough for me, at least while doing RS. A seat holster would be fine for me when not doing RS, I think.


----------



## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


And did it ever cross your mind to call law enforcement and report this menice so that he can be vetted noted and delt with? Did you let the gas station employee's know?

Cool story bro hope the next old lady he targets is packing too.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> Are you implying she is slow you seem to say that she was oblivious to a person standing in front on her staring at her angrily which makes no sense whatsoever. Is she slow to leave the car doors open, is she ignorant to her own safety and her surroundings, that should be a bigger concern to you since you won't be there with a gun each time. You gave a great example as to why you think carrying makes you a badass. You show your gun and the guy thinks you are a badass. What you described was a crazy person, not the ex but the person standing staring which makes no sense unless you are a little person.
> 
> Teach her to always be aware of her surroundings, stop the car and take the keys out and close the doors when you are gassing up.


I love the liberals in this thread. You didn't read.

I was facing him. He was facing me, she was in between us. Her and I were talking. So with those facts what do you think her physical orientation was to the individual?

I'm glad you think moving a sport coat about 1 inch is badass. It moves more than that if I reach for my wallet that is kept inside the sport coat.



uberist said:


> And did it ever cross your mind to call law enforcement and report this menice so that he can be vetted noted and delt with? Did you let the gas station employee's know?
> 
> Cool story bro hope the next old lady he targets is packing too.


Staring like this is not something the police are going to get involved in. The gas station already knows, the type of neighborhood it is means these types are around on a daily basis. Best you can do is avoid it. If you have to use it, quick in and out and be extremely aware.



WAHN said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Not looking to brazenly open carry, so the shoulder is out for me. I guess I'm leaning towards a mostly concealed carry, not that there is such a thing. Untucked shirt would usually conceal it enough for me, at least while doing RS. A seat holster would be fine for me when not doing RS, I think.


Your in Pittsburgh. They have some really cool jackets that will work there for you. The holster is literally built into the jacket. Can be a sport/suit jacket, windbreaker or even winter type jacket. Just if your going to carry doing rideshare learn to draw with your left hand with weapon on the right so your seatbelt doesn't interfere. Never draw while your in the drivers seat, way to confined space to effectively draw and shoot.


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> I love the liberals in this thread. You didn't read.
> 
> I was facing him. He was facing me, she was in between us. Her and I were talking. So with those facts what do you think her physical orientation was to the individual?
> 
> I'm glad you think moving a sport coat about 1 inch is badass. It moves more than that if I reach for my wallet that is kept inside the sport coat.


So what you are saying is that you are not enough of a man to tell another man who is angrily staring down the back of your ex wife's head what the F he is doing so instead you show him the only thing that makes you a man, your gun. got it, thanks.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> I love the liberals in this thread. You didn't read.
> 
> I was facing him. He was facing me, she was in between us. Her and I were talking. So with those facts what do you think her physical orientation was to the individual?
> 
> ...


i still dont understand why you didnt pump the gas for her, putting yourself between the ex and the very big man.. I did read what you posted and how your ex wife trusted you so that she would drop when you said dropl no questions asked... I guess that was so you could shoot over her... Im not so sure the very big man would have the same consideration...

It looks to me that your ex wife protected you this time


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> So what you are saying is that you are not enough of a man to tell another man who is angrily staring down the back of your ex wife's head what the F he is doing so instead you show him the only thing that makes you a man, your gun. got it, thanks.


Obviously you don't comprehend self defense. Let me explain for you.

Self defense means using the minimum amount of force necessary to defuse a situation. Now your in the ghetto, how do you think yelling at someone is going to go? Should we role play?

Me: What the **** are you doing?

How do you think that is going to go. Care to go watch some YouTube video? Not peacefully that's for damn sure I can tell you. The guy is going to take it he is being publicly called out and it's only going to escalate. Not the resolution we're looking for.

Slight movement of sport coat allows someone paying attention to see what is under it and problem is peacefully resolved.

I know, you want the big display showing how much of a badass you are because the bigger the display the more manly it is.



oldfart said:


> i still dont understand why you didnt pump the gas for her, putting yourself between the ex and the very big man.. I did read what you posted and how your ex wife trusted you so that she would drop when you said dropl no questions asked... I guess that was so you could shoot over her... Im not so sure the very big man would have the same consideration...
> 
> It looks to me that your ex wife protected you this time


So this is 2019 and a woman can not do something as complicated as pumping gas. She is to frail and incompetent to figure out the very complex method of fueling a vehicle right? Seriously man, her car, her money, her right to pump her gas. If she's of asked sure, no biggie, but not my place to tell her she's to weak and not smart enough to do such a simple task. Go back to 1930 please.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Obviously you don't comprehend self defense. Let me explain for you.
> 
> Self defense means using the minimum amount of force necessary to defuse a situation. Now your in the ghetto, how do you think yelling at someone is going to go? Should we role play?
> 
> ...


and yet you felt the need to protect her Its 2019,

women dont need your protection,,,If its her car,, her money,, and she has the right to pump her own gas.. why does she need your protection? and why in the name of god, would she drop when you say drop

Keeping her between you and the very big man, as you show your manhood,, seems a dangerous move


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> and yet you felt the need to protect her


I feel the need to protect you too if your ever in a situation oldfart. Just cause we don't agree doesn't mean I don't love ya.


----------



## Normanite (Jun 28, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Excellent post.


BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Well done!


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Your in Pittsburgh. They have some really cool jackets that will work there for you. The holster is literally built into the jacket. Can be a sport/suit jacket, windbreaker or even winter type jacket. Just if your going to carry doing rideshare learn to draw with your left hand with weapon on the right so your seatbelt doesn't interfere. Never draw while your in the drivers seat, way to confined space to effectively draw and shoot.


Thanks. That's a possibility for winter as I rarely wear a jacket, often taking it off in the car. Of course, that was before starting this.

Plenty to learn if I go this route. Probably ordering a dashcam this week and then will decide if I want to shoot down to our little local gun shop.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Soooo..... I gotta ask.....

Did you bang your ex "we decided on a quick catch up meeting after work"
? ???


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

WAHN said:


> Thanks. That's a possibility for winter as I rarely wear a jacket, often taking it off in the car. Of course, that was before starting this.
> 
> Plenty to learn if I go this route. Probably ordering a dashcam this week and then will decide if I want to shoot down to our little local gun shop.


Check out the Walther PPQ M1.
GREAT WEAPON.
Wonderful ergonomics, 9mm, great trigger, 15rounds, the magazine release on the M1 is ambidextrous, under trigger guard, versus on the grip.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Soooo..... I gotta ask.....
> 
> Did you bang your ex "we decided on a quick catch up meeting after work"
> ? ???


We have 3 kids. I've ridden that ride long hard and into the ground.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Check out the Walther PPQ M1.
> GREAT WEAPON.
> Wonderful ergonomics, 9mm, great trigger, 15rounds, the magazine release on the M1 is ambidextrous, under trigger guard, versus on the grip.


For beginners I recommend the Springfield XD line. From large frame to small. Has a double safety in the grip and trigger that automatically goes on and off based on if your holding it correctly. Fairly smooth gun, light trigger pressure.

The walthers are awesome guns but they have earned their nickname the angry bastard for a reason.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> We have 3 kids. I've ridden that ride long hard and into the ground.
> 
> 
> For beginners I recommend the Springfield XD line. From large frame to small. Has a double safety in the grip and trigger that automatically goes on and off based on if your holding it correctly. Fairly smooth gun, light trigger pressure.
> ...


Lack of a safety can be detrimental for beginners.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

WAHN said:


> Thanks. That's a possibility for winter as I rarely wear a jacket, often taking it off in the car. Of course, that was before starting this.
> 
> Plenty to learn if I go this route. Probably ordering a dashcam this week and then will decide if I want to shoot down to our little local gun shop.


Please train before you buy. Get a paintball gun first and find outdoor areas that you can run, drop, roll and so on to increase your heart rate and breathing. This pumps up your adrenaline and gives you a more realistic idea of how well you do or do not do u see pressure.

Study the gun laws in your state. For example I'm in AZ which is open carry but not necessarily so on the tribal lands which are abundant in my area. If I'm on the east side I know I have to stow the gun irregardless of my CCW because their laws are different.

No matter what you have to get a CCW because you can't go within 1000 ft of a school anywhere without one per federal law. Which is literally impossible in this job.

Study, learn and train then get the gun. To many people do it backwards and end up in trouble.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Lack of a safety can be detrimental for beginners.


Damn misfires. They'll mess ya up every time.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Please train before you buy. Get a paintball gun first and find outdoor areas that you can run, drop, roll and so on to increase your heart rate and breathing. This pumps up your adrenaline and gives you a more realistic idea of how well you do or do not do u see pressure.
> 
> Study the gun laws in your state. For example I'm in AZ which is open carry but not necessarily so on the tribal lands which are abundant in my area. If I'm on the east side I know I have to stow the gun irregardless of my CCW because their laws are different.
> 
> ...


I never have a round chambered.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> I feel the need to protect you too if your ever in a situation oldfart. Just cause we don't agree doesn't mean I don't love ya.


 Thanks, just don't put me between you and the bad guy


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Check out the Walther PPQ M1.
> GREAT WEAPON.
> Wonderful ergonomics, 9mm, great trigger, 15rounds, the magazine release on the M1 is ambidextrous, under trigger guard, versus on the grip.


Thanks. That's a whole other discussion. You know, the old opinions and a-holes thing.

I started looking into this a little bit last year, before I even thought about getting into rideshare/delivery.

Have gone through probably all of the newbie thoughts and questions.



BlueNOX said:


> For beginners I recommend the Springfield XD line. From large frame to small. Has a double safety in the grip and trigger that automatically goes on and off based on if your holding it correctly. Fairly smooth gun, light trigger pressure.
> 
> The walthers are awesome guns but they have earned their nickname the angry bastard for a reason


And there's the opinions and a-holes theory in action. 

I haven't fired a gun since I was a kid, so out of the gate I wouldn't know good triggers from bad triggers.

For a first purchase, I was leaning towards not putting out $400-$500. I was probably headed towards the Taurus PT111 G2, or now the Taurus G2C. This guy seems to not hate it-


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

WAHN said:


> Thanks. That's a whole other discussion. You know, the old opinions and a-holes thing.
> 
> I started looking into this a little bit last year, before I even thought about getting into rideshare/delivery.
> 
> ...


 Taurus G2C is a good wespon. I'm thinking of getting one


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Thanks, just don't put me between you and the bad guy


I want you to know, if anyone ever threatens you in my presence, I will go throu heaven, hell and anything else in
My way to take them out.

PS. The bad traditionally chooses the opening dance positions. Just be prepared to dosie doe if needed.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Se we went to an outdoor range in Como, CO today. Practiced with my CCW, my home defense pistol and my friends ARs. **trigger warning for the irrational fact averse, haters here**


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Very nice. Wonder how many here will scream those are illegal assault weapons. Lol


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Very nice. Wonder how many here will scream those are illegal assault weapons. Lol


Im sure the same dude who denied a CCW holder ever saved anyone, asked me for links to prove him wrong, then ignored me when i did just that.

Now were home prepping to BBQ buffalo burgers. Today was a good day.


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Please train before you buy. Get a paintball gun first and find outdoor areas that you can run, drop, roll and so on to increase your heart rate and breathing. This pumps up your adrenaline and gives you a more realistic idea of how well you do or do not do u see pressure.
> 
> Study the gun laws in your state. For example I'm in AZ which is open carry but not necessarily so on the tribal lands which are abundant in my area. If I'm on the east side I know I have to stow the gun irregardless of my CCW because their laws are different.
> 
> ...


Thanks again.

It certainly wouldn't go with me before any training and practice. As a smoker(working on quitting), I only need to speedwalk from the living room to the kitchen to get the heart rate and breathing up.

PA is an open carry state, but we do need a CCW if we're going to have a loaded gun in the car. While it's unlikely, rides could possibly drag me into OH or WV, which both recognize others states permits. Hard to go any direction without passing a school where I live. No tribal lands, just Amish country. 



OMG GO! said:


> Se we went to an outdoor range in Como, CO today. Practiced with my CCW, my home defense pistol and my friends ARs. **trigger warning for the irrational fact averse haters here**
> View attachment 327023
> View attachment 327025


Damn psychotic gun nuts. 



Lee239 said:


> So what you are saying is that you are not enough of a man to tell another man who is angrily staring down the back of your ex wife's head what the F he is doing so instead you show him the only thing that makes you a man, your gun. got it, thanks.


That's an excellent strategy for escalating a situation.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> I want you to know, if anyone ever threatens you in my presence, I will go throu heaven, hell and anything else in
> My way to take them out.
> 
> PS. The bad traditionally chooses the opening dance positions. Just be prepared to dosie doe if needed.


Same here. 
Drop the threat.


----------



## Waingro (Aug 29, 2016)

Glocks are very reliable. Some of your US guns can jam at the wrong time. Not much fun when that happens...
Also, remember a Knife cannot jam. Just as effective if you can get close to the assailant.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Waingro said:


> Glocks are very reliable. Some of your US guns can jam at the wrong time. Not much fun when that happens...
> Also, remember a Knife cannot jam. Just as effective if you can get close to the assailant.


Glocks rock, i have a 21sf for home defense, but i have no fear of my smith and wesson M&P shield having problems. Ive fired enough rounds out of it to be confident. The glock is too big to conceal carry for me, and i dont like the subcompact glocks, just dont fit my hand as well as the shield. I always have a knife in my pocket, thats just a no-duh every day tool.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Serious question: In response to your displaying your weapon, If he pulled back his sport coat and displayed a weapon, what would have been your response?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Serious question: In response to your displaying your weapon, If he pulled back his sport coat and displayed a weapon, what would have been your response?


He didn't have a sport coat.

But say he went for a weapon? 2 rounds center mast. Done.

Threat perceived and prepare. Threat confirmed and dropped. It's what the military trained me to do and how and why I train regularly now.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> He didn't have a sport coat.
> 
> But say he went for a weapon? 2 rounds center mast. Done.
> 
> Threat perceived and prepare. Threat confirmed and dropped. It's what the military trained me to do and how and why I train regularly now.


Youre a ****ing idiot. He didn't say "went for a weapon", the question was "what if he flashed it like you did".

My guess is you are < 5'7". IQ < 95.

I am not anti-gun, but you are making it hard not to be. People who fantasize about killing other people deserve a special place in hell.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> Youre a @@@@ing idiot. He didn't say "went for a weapon", the question was "what if he flashed it like you did".
> 
> My guess is you are < 5'7". IQ < 95.
> 
> I am not anti-gun, but you are making it hard not to be. People who fantasize about killing other people deserve a special place in hell.


Speaking of being an idiot, are you going to address the link i shared for you, giving you the proof you were asking for or are you gonna continue to ignore it so you can keep ranting like a ****in moron?

Also, nobody is fantasizing about killing people, short of maybe you. Being trained and prepared is not fantasizing you colossal ****in idiot.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Speaking of being an idiot, are you going to address the link i shared for you, giving you the proof you were asking for or are you gonna continue to ignore it so you can keep ranting like a @@@@in moron?


The link showed that 3% of active shooter situtions are resolved by civilians with guns. And its much less than registered number of carrrying gun owners.

Not a ringing endorsement and proved my point. If many people were carrying, that % would be much higher.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> The link showed that 3% of active shooter situtions are resolved by civilians with guns. And its much less than registered number of carrrying gun owners.
> 
> Not a ringing endorsement and proved my point. If many people were carrying, that % would be much higher.


So a CCW holder being present can be useful and save potential victims, as was shown in many situtations from ONE simple search query. Thats what those many articles pointed out, proving you wrong. I like how you go back to making up stats tho. Solid way to lose a debate.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> He didn't have a sport coat.
> 
> But say he went for a weapon? 2 rounds center mast. Done.
> 
> Threat perceived and prepare. Threat confirmed and dropped. It's what the military trained me to do and how and why I train regularly now.


Why would you shoot at a boat?:biggrin:


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

justaGoober said:


> Why would you shoot at a boat?:biggrin:


Ask a Sailor! :laugh:


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Why would you shoot at a boat?:biggrin:


You obviously don't comprehend self defense/firearms. But to humor you, if there was an active threat on the boat then I would shoot at the active threat under the following conditions:

1. Distance to target. Are we talking 20 ft out or 1/2 mile out in the water?

2. Do I have the proper weapon to make the shot? 
A. If 1/2 mile do I have a Glock 9mm handgun or a .3006 rifle with scope capable of allowing a proper identification and targeting of the threat?

3. Is there another resolution to the threat I can reasonable take for resolution immediately? No, I'm not calling him on the phone.

4. If threat is not visible with scope due to hiding on the boat and I have the proper rifle and scope, do I have ammo capable of piercing the hull and do I have a decent idea of where the fuel tanks are to instead take out a tank initiating an explosion on the boat to eliminate the threat.

5. Is it open seas behind the boat or are there other vessels around the boat that may be reasonably shot if a miscalculation in trajectory is made.

These are actual scenario questions for every shot and they need to be made in a split second. The further distance of the shot the higher percentage of missing any shooter will have, in addition tractors being off be a couple millimeters can translate into yards off over longer distances.

I love it when illiterate skittlecorns liberals attempt to act like they comprehend a topic they are so uneducated about a slug could teach them a doctorates worth.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usne...itizens-thwart-active-shooters-94-of-the-time
In the above, it shows that 94% of the time that law abiding citizens with firearms are present they effectively stop or impede active shooter situations.

Hmmmm.


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

WAHN said:


> That's an excellent strategy for escalating a situation.


So is showing a gun if the other person is crazy and also has a gun.


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Lee239 said:


> So is showing a gun if the other person is crazy and also has a gun.


Well, if he was just a law abiding citizen innocently staring, he could have reported the OP to the authorities for brandishing a weapon.

There's a lot of ifs in the world.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> You obviously don't comprehend self defense/firearms. But to humor you, if there was an active threat on the boat then I would shoot at the active threat under the following conditions:
> 
> 1. Distance to target. Are we talking 20 ft out or 1/2 mile out in the water?
> 
> ...


You're a little slow...check out your previous post where you wrote, "2 rounds center *mast*...."

Do you know the difference between "mass" and "mast"?

You obviously don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", but that's for another day....

March on, Rambo!


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> You're a little slow...check out your previous post where you wrote, "2 rounds center *mast*...."
> 
> Do you know the difference between "mass" and "mast"?
> 
> ...


I'm impressed, your best argument is to criticize spelling. I bet your the type that recites the law on jaywalking to a cop.

Your very slow. Does someone need to explain what center mass is to you? Let me help.

In self defense/firearms use mass refers to the torso of the body. You know, that big swollen part of your body that you've overstuffed with junk food that contains most of the crap your filled with. It has your arms, legs and puny little neck attached to it. We aim for the center of that. Hence "center mast". I don't find humor in firearms.



Lee239 said:


> So is showing a gun if the other person is crazy and also has a gun.


Depends on the specific situation. If I was in a higher income area with rational individuals for the most part I would of used conversation to dissuade him. When in the hood your surrounded by animals. They don't understand logic as those from another neighborhood might. They see a verbal statement as a challenge from a weaker individual and attack. Use of force makes them think if they want some.

Had this been a law abiding citizen the situation would not have existed.

As far as crazy goes, my draw time from the hip is under 2 1/2 seconds including the jacket sweep. When timing a draw it's hands in front of you to the draw to the ready 2 rounds fired at target successfully. Shoulder car is just under 3 seconds, not as smooth with my right hand as my left.

Had he been crazy his draw time will be considerably slower which means he'd be on the ground.

2,275,000 shootings have been prevented by doing what I did. That's 5.5 million lives that have not been changed because a firearm was made known in a very subtle manner. 2,275,000 lives saved and 2,275,000 people not in prison each year for killing someone.

That is an FBI statistic.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Your very slow. Does someone need to explain what center mast is to you? Let me help.
> 
> In self defense/firearms use mast refers to the torso of the body. You know, that big swollen part of your body that you've overstuffed with junk food that contains most of the crap your filled with. It has your arms, legs and puny little neck attached to it. We aim for the center of that. Hence "center mast".
> I don't find humor in firearms.


You are really starting to embarrass yourself. The phrase is "center mass", not "center mast" a "mast" is on a boat.

And you said, "I love it when illiterate skittlecorns liberals attempt to act like they comprehend a topic they are so uneducated about a slug could teach them a doctorates worth"

*LOL (that means laugh out loud)*

https://www.guns.com/news/2011/07/14/why-shoot-center-mass


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> You are really starting to embarrass yourself: The phrase is "center mass", not "center mast" a "mast" is on a boat.
> 
> https://www.guns.com/news/2011/07/14/why-shoot-center-mass


It's called friggin auto complete on the iPhone. Get over it people. Gawd. None of you have it on yours?


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> It's called friggin auto complete on the iPhone. Get over it people. Gawd. None of you have it on yours?


I use a manual typewriter. What's an iPhone?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Hey Goober, I hear antifa calling you.


----------



## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Yeah.....isn't America great? Just a normal day in the greatest country in the world.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

What is missing in this whole discussion is other ways to defuse the stated situation.

Perhaps walking up next to her, and just staring at him over her shoulder.

In most situations, there is an infinity of possible responses.

This is NOT intended as a criticism of the Original Poster. Rather, some thoughts on other ways it could have been handled.

My guess is that there will future situations, perhaps for many of us. Having various options available that we've thought about could be helpful.

Christine


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> What is missing in this whole discussion is other ways to defuse the stated situation.
> 
> Perhaps walking up next to her, and just staring at him over her shoulder.
> 
> ...


I was not there so I can not say the OP was right or wrong. I do know one thing, I have no intentions of ever flashing my gun. If I pull it I fully intend on using it. Now that said, who knows I may find myself one day in a situation where I might change my mind on that and pulling or flashing my gun may be enough to deescalate a situation and shots won't need to be fired. I am all about avoiding and deescalating a situation as best I can as a primary defense.


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> What is missing in this whole discussion is other ways to defuse the stated situation.
> 
> Perhaps walking up next to her, and just staring at him over her shoulder.
> 
> In most situations, there is an infinity of possible responses.


Yep, was thinking along those lines as well. Just wasn't in the mood for the my way is the best way crowd.

Sometimes I'm a keyboard warrior, other times I'm keyboard Switzerland.


----------



## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Gun dealer? And you sale it good work.


----------



## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

OldBay said:


> If he understood women they'd still be married.


_there it is_ .. the personal attack.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

justaGoober said:


> You're a little slow...check out your previous post where you wrote, "2 rounds center *mast*...."
> 
> Do you know the difference between "mass" and "mast"?
> 
> ...


If your best argument is typos, you have no argument. Be gone troll.



theMezz said:


> _there it is_ .. the personal attack.


He has no argument seeing as weve called him out on making up stats and ignoring the proof he asked for. Hes just SO MAD others arent afraid to defend themselves from his criminal buddies.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> If your best argument is typos, you have no argument. Be gone troll.


There is no arguing with someone that writes something as ignorant as this:


BlueNOX said:


> Depends on the specific situation. If I was in a higher income area with rational individuals for the most part I would of used conversation to dissuade him. When in the hood your surrounded by animals. *They don't understand logic as those from another neighborhood might.* They see a verbal statement as a challenge from a weaker individual and attack. Use of force makes them think if they want some.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


That's Brandishing a fire arm and can be a felony in many states.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> There is no arguing with someone that writes something as ignorant as this:


Really? Ignorant?

It's called socialization. Look it up. Starts in the womb and goes until an individual dies. It's actually the largest factor in how one will react/respond to any given situation. Someone who's life has been spent experiencinf low volume verbal resolution to conflict will typically respond well to it. Those who spent their life experiencing high volume will respond with and only to high volume. For individuals who typically experience physical resolution to any given situation respond well to physical force.

Further, these different types of conflict resolution tend to follow certain socio-economic groups. Just go to YouTube and you can see it. What is considered peaceful to one socio-exotic group is vastly different than another.

Wal-mart customers vs Target vs Amazon customers.

I'll wait while you do your research.



steveK2016 said:


> That's Brandishing a fire arm and can be a felony in many states.


Again, AZ is an Open/Concealed Carry State. That means the firearm can be openly displayed or concealed. Just because it's concealed does not mean it can not instantly be made open and then concealed again. The law does not recognize a method of when or how to go from one to the other.



Christinebitg said:


> What is missing in this whole discussion is other ways to defuse the stated situation.
> 
> Perhaps walking up next to her, and just staring at him over her shoulder.
> 
> ...


I agree Christine, there's always more than one way to skin a cat. The trick is to find the most efficient.

In this case she and I are both standing next to her van talking as she pumps gas. We get along well so are standing the appropriate distance to have a private conversation in public, approx 30 inches between us or you could say 1 step between us. Individual in question is just past the left front corner of her van, staring and not moving a single muscle. I see him and stare him back multiple times over her shoulder. The stare back is to let him know I see him and to encourage him to step off. He chose to not step off and continue the unflinching stare. When it was time to leave and she was forced to turn around and walk a couple steps in that direction I moved my jacket slightly, no more than I would if I was reaching into my pants pocket to send a warning to him to step off. At that point he stepped off.

In AZ this is NOT brandishing, it's simply going from concealed to open carry, which both are legal and is a very effective way of preventing further escalation of the situation.

94% of mass shootings that had someone with a firearm present have been stopped and/or impeded. The FBI estimates 2.275 million shootings are prevented each year with the simple trick I did.

I posted the findings on an earlier page with proof. Check them out.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

justaGoober said:


> There is no arguing with someone that writes something as ignorant as this:


Then why are you still here, trying and losing, going after spelling errors and typos as if this forum were a english paper? Dude clearly stated he was prior Navy, he has probably used the word 'mast' a lot and we all understand how auto-correct does these things. He also correctly used the term 'center mass' multiple times, so its clear what he meant. You are REACHING.

Dude shared a story, and people who weren't there are assuming, endlessly, what could or should have happened. People with ZERO firearms training chiming in with "what-ifs" and thoughts on how things should go down, that blatantly show how little they know. Its like flat earthers yelling at NASA employees that the world is flat. Honestly, i wonder why im still here trying to tell flat earthers that they are wrong....probably due to boredom waiting on a +45 min trip request.


----------



## Jihad Me At Hello (Jun 18, 2018)

oldfart said:


> What he said,
> and I'd add, it must be hell to be you always paranoid and afraid and thinking the worst about people
> 
> And don't think I don't know about sketchy neighborhoods. I used to own property, and collect rent (cash) after dark in inner city Baltimore. I never had a problem that showing a gun would solve. Actually I was afraid to carry a gun because my fear was that a bad guy might be quicker on the draw than me. Or come up behind me with a baseball bat, knock me down and shoot me with my own gun. In your case I'd bet that If the guy had bad intentions chances are he could shoot you first
> ...


This mindset is a dangerous one. Being paranoid and afraid and thinking the worst? How the hell would you react w/ someone mean mugging the shit out of someone you care about who had no business being there and doing that? Oh that's right, "Good evening how's it going?"

Sometimes the shitty situation finds you, not the other way around. Personally I'd MUCH rather be prepared through such things as a dashcam and the carrying/use of weapons (and the requisite training that goes w/ them)in defense of myself and my family than to just hope/pray that 'howdy neighbor' will defuse someone who just saw me stuff a wad of cash in my pocket and sees me as target practice cuz he's overdue for his next meth hit.

side note: If you were going around collecting cash in Charm Shitty and DIDN'T get strong-armed for your money, that's great (and almost unbelievably lucky). OP's experience differs (for that matter mine does too).



OldBay said:


> Acting as if the "real scum of the earth" don't have guns.
> 
> If the guy as bad as OP says, he's lucky he didn't get popped in back of head.
> 
> ...


Wait.... you actually believe this load of shit, don't you.....


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Oh wait. I get it now. 

The resolution the liberals think I should of taken. 

Set the same scene. Notice guy tensed and staring. 

Walk up to him, hi sir. Would you like a ********? Let me just relieve your frustrations and stress, help you relax. No sir, no condom necessary, happy to take car of that sack to for you. 

Oh, your running low on cash? When we’re done here, we can go over to the bank, happy to share my earnings with you. 

Oh, you live in this neighborhood and you have no car. Why that just down right unantifa. We must fix this horrid social injustice right now. Just let me live up here for you. I notice your still stressed. So, now that your stress is lower, let me sign the title of this car over to you. Don’t worry about the insurance I got that. By the way, if you check the gps it has the address of your new home right there. Feel free to make yourself st home because you deserve it. After all, you’ve spent a hard day workin hard to find someone to rob. I know, in this heat you’d think people would be kinder and just hand over their things. 

You know, my wife and kids might be home. If you could, since I’m giving you my new cell phone too, maybe give them a call and let them know they need to leave, after all you can’t be bothered with other people there can you. 

Don’t worry about paying for it, cause we’ll just keep working hard to send in those monthly mortgage payments and pay the utilities. I’ll even arrange for grocery delivery every couple days. 

Enjoy because you deserve it more than me, after all I only got it because I’m part of the working privileged and don’t really know what it’s like to work for anything.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Walk up to him, hi sir.


One of the definitions of a socialist is a person who wants to take your money, to give to people who have made poor life choices.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

What major intersection was this close to?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> What major intersection was this close to?


59th ave and Bethany Home in Phoenix


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

https://theconversation.com/how-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-became-a-deadly-american-fantasy-117367


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Really? Ignorant?
> 
> It's called socialization. Look it up. Starts in the womb and goes until an individual dies. It's actually the largest factor in how one will react/respond to any given situation. Someone who's life has been spent experiencinf low volume verbal resolution to conflict will typically respond well to it. Those who spent their life experiencing high volume will respond with and only to high volume. For individuals who typically experience physical resolution to any given situation respond well to physical force.
> 
> ...


...the embarrassment continues...and it has nothing to with guns or grammar.

To call low income people "animals" is beyond the pale


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> ...the embarrassment continues...and it has nothing to with guns or grammar.
> 
> To call low income people "animals" is beyond the pale


Where did I say low income? Some of the individuals in these "animal" soci-economic groups have quite a bit of money. Income is only 1 determining factor of socio-economic group. Hence socio-economic with the cool hyphen. Go take some poli sci courses and learn things before you spout off.



OldBay said:


> https://theconversation.com/how-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-became-a-deadly-american-fantasy-117367


Using a page advertising a book for sale as your argument? Roflmao. OMG triple face palm.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> https://theconversation.com/how-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-became-a-deadly-american-fantasy-117367


Lol, still in denial i see. Its as if you dont think people are ever assaulted or that if they are, its their duty to risk it and see if they can win with their hands, hoping the assailant doesnt have a weapon or is just a better fighter. Its as if you think a citizen HAS to fight if a criminal wants to. Oldbay, im sorry to tell you, but the world is not flat.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> Really? Ignorant?
> 
> It's called socialization. Look it up. Starts in the womb and goes until an individual dies. It's actually the largest factor in how one will react/respond to any given situation. Someone who's life has been spent experiencinf low volume verbal resolution to conflict will typically respond well to it. Those who spent their life experiencing high volume will respond with and only to high volume. For individuals who typically experience physical resolution to any given situation respond well to physical force.
> 
> ...


Im certainly all for carry and while I'm not intimately familiar with AZ law, what you described, if pushed by the person you did it to and was caught on camera, can legally be construed as brandishing. You can play on words that you were sinpky transitioninh from conceal to open carry, you were doing so intebtionally to display the firearm to cause intimidation.

While the actions of the guy is unsettling, he didnt threaten you in any way. He may have intended harm, but he did nothing to actually indicate it.

If the Guy was smart and you appeared to have sufficient fubds (nice car, etc) he probably could call the police on you. He technically did nothing wrong.

If your intent to intimidate wasnt apparent, which is it because you admit to it on these forums, then the excuse of trasitioning to open carry can appear legit but you have admitted that the move was to intimidate.

Now that may be allowed in AZ, but if it we're, you wouldn't need to justify the act as simply transitioning from conceal to open. You would simply state you intentionally brandished a fire arm to de-escallate a percieved threat. If thats permitted, thats all that needs to be said.



oldfart said:


> I was afraid to carry a gun because my fear was thay a bad guy might be quicker on the draw than me.


So You were afraid of the 50% odds and so your solution is to make it a 0% odds?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Im certainly all for carry and while I'm not intimately familiar with AZ law, what you described, if pushed by the person you did it to and was caught on camera, can legally be construed as brandishing. You can play on words that you were sinpky transitioninh from conceal to open carry, you were doing so intebtionally to display the firearm to cause intimidation.
> 
> While the actions of the guy is unsettling, he didnt threaten you in any way. He may have intended harm, but he did nothing to actually indicate it.
> 
> ...


Again, AZ law allows both open and concealed. Hand did not pull or attempt to pull gun from holster, no verbal threats were made. Under AZ law no brandishing. I realize in TX it might be different. But this is AZ.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> So You were afraid of the 50% odds and so your solution is to make it a 0% odds?


We arent dealing with rational or intelligent people here.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> We arent dealing with rational or intelligent people here.


I know rite?


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

OldBay said:


> I know rite?


Theres one now


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> Again, AZ law allows both open and concealed. Hand did not pull or attempt to pull gun from holster, no verbal threats were made. Under AZ law no brandishing. I realize in TX it might be different. But this is AZ.


Displaying your weapon from a conceal state to an open state for the sole purpose of presenting the fact you have a weapon in order to intimidate is the brandishing. If brandishing is allowed in AZ, fair enough. If it were allowed, id suspect you wouldnt be trying to use lingojitzu to justify your action (merely going from conceal to open state)

Can You show the law in AZ that states you are allowed to brandish your weapon in order to prevent someone who is just standing there from doing more then just standing there?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Displaying your weapon from a conceal state to an open state for the sole purpose of presenting the fact you have a weapon in order to intimidate is the brandishing. If brandishing is allowed in AZ, fair enough. If it were allowed, id suspect you wouldnt be trying to use lingojitzu to justify your action (merely going from conceal to open state)
> 
> Can You show the law in AZ that states you are allowed to brandish your weapon in order to prevent someone who is just standing there from doing more then just standing there?


In AZ it is not. In all actuality AZ does NOT have a specific brandishing a firearm law. At best it would be disorderly conduct.

Further, AZ allows for it specifically if you believe it's necessary you are actually allowed to display a weapon in defense, up to and including not firing it. It's called desfensive display. If a reasonable person would believe there is a threat you can. Be stared down, cases for several minutes will make most people feel threatened.

As far as posting it here goes, I'm not your Alexa. Go ask her.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> In AZ it is not. In all actuality AZ does NOT have a specific brandishing a firearm law. At best it would be disorderly conduct.
> 
> Further, AZ allows for it specifically if you believe it's necessary you are actually allowed to display a weapon in defense, up to and including not firing it. It's called desfensive display. If a reasonable person would believe there is a threat you can. Be stared down, cases for several minutes will make most people feel threatened.
> 
> As far as posting it here goes, I'm not your Alexa. Go ask her.


Here is actual firearm law for az about brandishing. What op did is classified as reckless discharge.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/arizona-law/arizona-disorderly-conduct-laws.html
Op is a clown and doesnt know the laws in his state.

/thread


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

That is disorderly conduct at best to display a weapon in a non defensive manner. Mine was defensive.

Can’t be reckless discharge as the weapon never left its holster let alone discharge. 

What a dumbass


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Yes, the wind has left your sails. You know you were in wrong, it was not a defensive display as there was no imminent threat of danger. It was brandishing categorized with reckless discharge.

You admitted to a misdemeanor class 1 which is 6months jail.

Not only is what you did illegal, you are hurting the reputation and cause of responsible gun owners.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> Yes, the wind has left your sails. You know you were in wrong, it was not a defensive display as there was no imminent threat of danger. It was brandishing categorized with reckless discharge.
> 
> You admitted to a misdemeanor class 1 which is 6months jail.
> 
> Not only is what you did illegal, you are hurting the reputation and cause of responsible gun owners.


1. Open and concealed carry are both legal in AZ so able to move a jacket and it's not brandishing. It's moving a jacket. At the most it's going from concealed to open. 100% legal.

2. Hand never touched the gun or holster so at best it is defensive display if I reasonably perceived a threat.

3. No discharge of a weapon means no charge for discharge. That's the beauty of that charge, a bullet has to exit the barrel of the gun to qualify as reckless discharge. No discharge no crime.

4. Quit trying to use a website that uses general names for things and look up the AZ Statute. There is no brandishing law. At best it could be charged under disorderly conduct which is a misdemeanor. The discharge is a felony with up to 1 1/2 yrs in prison. Big difference in the 2.

It's not my fault that your a keyboard warrior skittlecorns coward who thinks he knows it all. You weren't there. Hell, you've admitted that if you were there you would of curled up in a ball on the ground and cried for help as your were beaten and kicked. Your such a coward you don't even own a gun because someone might take it and use it against you.

Find a law in AZ that states you can not go from concealed to open to concealed in under 3 seconds and I'll concede. You can't because there is none.

Ran into a friend of mine at the gas station. He happens to be an active duty police officer. His response to this:

There no law against moving or adjusting your coat.

Hell, call Phoenix PD where it happened and see. They'll tell you the same thing.

By the way your not a responsible gun owner. Your a forum troll to scared to fight for anything that's not on a screen.

That's okay, when your in trouble I'll...

No I won't. But I will have a beer as I watch.


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Once you brandished your weapon at me, I would've shot you and not batted an eye.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> *Where did I say low income*? Some of the individuals in these "animal" soci-economic groups have quite a bit of money. Income is only 1 determining factor of socio-economic group. Hence socio-economic with the cool hyphen. Go take some poli sci courses and learn things before you spout off.


The embarrassment continues...But no worries, @OMG GO! will step in to defend you!



BlueNOX said:


> Depends on the specific situation*. If I was in a higher income area with rational individuals* for the most part I would of used conversation to dissuade him. *When in the hood your surrounded by animals. *They don't understand logic as those from another neighborhood might. They see a verbal statement as a challenge from a weaker individual and attack. Use of force makes them think if they want some.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> 1. Open and concealed carry are both legal in AZ so able to move a jacket and it's not brandishing. It's moving a jacket. At the most it's going from concealed to open. 100% legal.
> 
> 2. Hand never touched the gun or holster so at best it is defensive display if I reasonably perceived a threat.
> 
> ...


Intent is everything. If you were fueling your car and you accidently brushed your jacket while lifting up the hose, that's one thing.

You admit You displayed the fire arm intentionally for the sole purpose to intimedate. While the guy may have seemed creepy, he didnt threaten you.

That's where the line is being drawn. defensive display would apply if you were threatened. You werent threatened.

And You are my Alexa now...


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

TXUbering said:


> Once you brandished your weapon at me, I would've shot you and not batted an eye.


And you'd be in prison. Moving a sports coat is not brandishing in AZ. Maybe in your area but not here.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> So You were afraid of the 50% odds and so your solution is to make it a 0% odds?


The chances of me being shot are much less if I don't have a gun


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> And you'd be in prison. Moving a sports coat is not brandishing in AZ. Maybe in your area but not here.


It wouldnt until this thread was brought to court where you admit to intentionally brandishing the weapon for the sole intent to intimedate someone you admit did not actually do or say anything threatening.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> 59th ave and Bethany Home in Phoenix


That is a bad neighborhood.
I won't go anywhere near there unless absolutely necessary


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> And you'd be in prison. Moving a sports coat is not brandishing in AZ. Maybe in your area but not here.


If you're moving it to display a weapon, then that's enough to make me feel threatened. Like I said, I'd shoot, and shoot to kill, not to maim.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Intent is everything. If you were fueling your car and you accidently brushed your jacket while lifting up the hose, that's one thing.
> 
> You admit You displayed the fire arm intentionally for the sole purpose to intimedate. While the guy may have seemed creepy, he didnt threaten you.
> 
> ...


Show me a law in AZ where going from concealed to open is illegal. Beyond that you have to know the intent and prove it.

Now in MD where open carry is not legal just showing it on accident is a


steveK2016 said:


> It wouldnt until this thread was brought to court where you admit to intentionally brandishing the weapon for the sole intent to intimedate someone you admit did not actually do or say anything threatening.


If there were charges this thread would not exist.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Absolutely
> I
> 
> The chance of me being shot with my one gun are exactly zero if I don't have a gun


Lol. Typical liberal mindset. Thats why you train in weapon retention and draw fire to increase your odds.



BlueNOX said:


> Show me a law in AZ where going from concealed to open is illegal. Beyond that you have to know the intent and prove it.
> 
> Now in MD where open carry is not legal just showing it on accident is a
> 
> If there were charges this thread would not exist.


So You admit that this thread, where you admit to brandishing a fire arm with the intent to intimidate against someone that didn t threaten you would be self incriminating?


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> It wouldnt until this thread was brought to court where you admit to intentionally *brandishing the weapon for the sole intent to intimidate *someone you admit did not actually do or say anything threatening.


This is generally why a lot of "men" carry. They want to be intimidating, but they're generally built like a marshmallow. The sad part is the other guy actually intimidated him, to the point that he felt he had to brandish a weapon. If you have to display a weapon to impose some sort of territorial statement, then you're not a man.

I've been in some rough neighborhood gas stations, I don't carry a weapon. If some idiot wants to rush me, so be it, I'm not going to be a P$$Y about it, I'm going to get in my shots (non-weapon). If someone wants to take something from me, I'm going to make them earn it.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

justaGoober said:


> The embarrassment continues...But no worries, @OMG GO! will step in to defend you!


Brothers in arms aka veterans, ya ****, but what would you know?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> It wouldnt until this thread was brought to court where you admit to intentionally brandishing the weapon for the sole intent to intimedate someone you admit did not actually do or say anything threatening.


You do not know squat about Arizona law.


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

oldfart said:


> The chances of me being shot are much less if I don't have a gun


Not having a gun doesnt stop bullets, a knife, or a determined criminal but hey, you do you.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Brothers in arms aka veterans, ya @@@@, but what would you know?


I highly doubt all vets support stupidity (equating low income people to animals)..but what would I know?


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> You do not know squat about Arizona law.


https://www.jacksonwhitelaw.com/criminal-defense-law/threatening-or-intimidating-in-arizona/

So here we are, he's already mentioned that he showed his weapon to someone that "stared" at his ex wife. These are specifically the type of guys that SHOULD NOT be allowed to legally carry. A weapon isn't meant to be used to intimidate, not even if you're a poor excuse for a man.



BlueNOX said:


> If there were charges this thread would not exist.


Except for the screenshot that I just took.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> You do not know squat about Arizona law.


Ok lets looks at this scenario.

Everything plays out the same as the OP describes.

Lets assume there is full video of the man, with audio, and the OP with full audio.

A man is standing there. Silent. Doesnt make a threatening move. Doesnt make a threatening sound. Doesnt even mouth the words "biiiiiiitch" to the OP. This man is a law abiding citizen who is also armed, legally.

The OP decides to lift up his sports coat to brandish his firearm to intimidate this man.

Would Arizona law prevent this man from feeling threatened by this display of a fire arm? If he felt threatened, and he shots the OP, would he be in the wrong?

If the OP got the drop on the man, would the OP admit that the man did nothing threatening and only decided to brandish his fire arm to intimidate so he doesnt get and "funny" ideas?

Full video of this encounter, youre telling me the man didnt have the right to self defense?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

I live in AZ, and am familiar with our laws.
This was not brandishing.

Sell your novel to Hollywood.
They will like you there.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

OMG GO! said:


> Not having a gun doesnt stop bullets, a knife, or a determined criminal but hey, you do you.


I think the point is that having a gun dosent stop bullets either


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> I live in AZ, and am familiar with our laws.
> This was not brandishing.
> 
> Sell your novel to Hollywood.
> They will like you there.


He's already stated that he used it because someone was staring at his ex. Like I said, if he had made that gesture to me, I would've shot to kill, and I would've been standing my ground, which is legal in many states.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

He did not use anything.
He showed something.
I showed once, perps with nefarious intent ran away.

Case closed.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Lol. Typical liberal mindset. Thats why you train in weapon retention and draw fire to increase your odds.
> 
> 
> So You admit that this thread, where you admit to brandishing a fire arm with the intent to intimidate against someone that didn t threaten you would be self incriminating?


I actually disagree with you. I've said that.

However with that said, if there were charges I'm smart enough to talk to no one but my attorney. And with him I would stand by my actions.

Have you ever been around a house cat? If so, have you ever seen it in these 2 situations:

1. Sitting in a window staring out relaxed. 
2. Sitting in a window watching a bird on the porch?

Notice the different stares? How one is relaxed, 2 is very intent with the muscles tensed up ready to pounce? In stare 1 the eyes will blink and the head may occasionally move slightly. Stare 2 eyes do not blink, not a single muscle moves.

Let me give you some info: humans have the same characteristics when relaxed vs hunting.

But hey, you know all this because your a millennial.



oldfart said:


> I think the point is that having a gun dosent stop bullets either


Your right. However it does send bullets back which can give you time to seek cover or convince your attacker to run, which most will do when shot at. Granted, you have to kno how to use it for it to effectively even do that.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

TemptingFate said:


> Homeless dude was probably looking to make 50 cents by cleaning her windshield.
> Good thing Dirty Harry was there!


Unnecessary roughness, 15 yard penalty ...Ed Hochuli
Next penalty... ejection from game


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Ok lets looks at this scenario.
> 
> Everything plays out the same as the OP describes.
> 
> ...


Your scenario doesn't work. Your assuming this is a law abiding citizen. Movement of a sports coat is not brandishing. Not in AZ. Not a single cop would arrest for it and not a single prosecutor would prosecute. If they did the judge would bust up laughing.

Further, your assuming a blank stare.

Set the scene correctly.

59th Ave and W Bethany Home Rd. On a scale of 1-10 for rough neighborhoods, this one is an 8 and I'm being nice.

Getting an idea.

For 1 more piece of fun info, 85% chance that even though AZ is an open carry state with no permits required for CCW, this individual was most likely not legal to be carrying, so if he was he was violating the law. Meaning he most likely had felony convictions based upon the neighborhood and his actions. I'm sure Wolfgang can verify that.

But what your missing is this is an Open/Concealed Carry state with no permits required.

We also are not required to tell police we have a firearm in the car unless stopped. Then if it's 2 steps removed (for example holstered and locked in the glove box, or in trunk, center console, map pocket and so on) we still don't have to tell.

There is no limit to how many firearms we can open/concealed carry. If I can get 12 on me then I can carry 12.

No rules on knives.

This isn't communist Maryland. Even Texas majorly infringes on 2nd Amendment rights in comparison. Here I can carry open and concealed simultaneous but in Texas if your carrying open you can't carry concealed.

In AZ with my CCW I can take my gun in a bar open or concealed as long as I'm not drinking and the bar doesn't have no guns posted, can't do that in Texas. I can take my gun to the water park here, can't in Texas.

Now that I think about it. I understand your confusion. Texas is a yellow bellied communist state run by liberal antifa members.

If you need help just tell, us guys in AZ will show you how to defend your 2nd Amendment rights like real men.


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Your scenario doesn't work. Your assuming this is a law abiding citizen.


As opposed to you assuming that he's not?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

TXUbering said:


> As opposed to you assuming that he's not?


Well, if he was law abiding and I'd broke a law he would of reported it don't you think? This was on Tuesday, it's now Sunday. Haven't heard a peep about it. Of course he might of chosen to be quiet if he has papers on him.

Oh, that would mean he's not law abiding.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Many places won't allow it so I suspect the inconvenience and lack of need, most keep their gun at home or legally in the car (in trunk, unloaded).


There are very few places guns are prohibited, if a business posted a "no guns" sign the OP can legally bring in his concealed weapon. If the OP said to the business owner how stupid his sign is then the business owner can tell the OP to leave, if he fails to leave the only thing he would be charged with is trespassing.



oldfart said:


> So if most keep their gun in the trunk or at home, How will you protect yourself? "Wait Mr Bad Guy "my gun is in the trunk, I"ll get it out and loaded in just a minute" or.. "my gun is at home, follow me there, so I can get it"


Most CCW holders do not keep their firearms in the trunk, dont listen to @OldBay he hates guns and has no idea where CCW holders keep their guns.



OldBay said:


> What op did is classified as reckless discharge.


This is the beauty about liberals and gun laws. They know NOTHING about guns, so the gun grabbing laws the write never hold up in court. I would think even a liberal would know the definition of discharge but I guess I give them too much credit.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Your scenario doesn't work. Your assuming this is a law abiding citizen. Movement of a sports coat is not brandishing. Not in AZ. Not a single cop would arrest for it and not a single prosecutor would prosecute. If they did the judge would bust up laughing.
> 
> Further, your assuming a blank stare.
> 
> ...


That area is the worst.
PHX PD would say it's a 9/10.
I open carry in that area, with my 25 Beretta stashed elsewhere.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> That area is the worst.
> PHX PD would say it's a 9/10.
> I open carry in that area, with my 25 Beretta stashed elsewhere.


It's not the worst. 19th ave and Dunlap is the 10 out of 10. For me South Phoenix is the 9 out of 10. Lol.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> It's not the worst. 19th ave and Dunlap is the 10 out of 10. For me South Phoenix is the 9 out of 10. Lol.


Yeah 
Sunnyslope...

Let's tell them how to behave in Five Points or Baltimore!


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

I absolutely love how these liberals interpret the laws. They don’t get that thebdefensive display gives you the right to draw based upon the idea that your about to be attacked. The threshold is not to protect life but to prevent or end any physical altercation. 

They’ve never owned a gun, don’t even know where the trigger is or the bullets go. I bet they think a semi-automatic is an assault weapon and think AR 15?stands for assault rifle. 

To bad they were born with micro testacles and don’t have enough testosterone to defend themselves let alone their family.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> This isn't communist Maryland. Even Texas majorly infringes on 2nd Amendment rights in comparison.


Well.

If that's your opinion of Texas, I'll have to revise my opinion of you.

And calling Maryland communist is just silly. Sadly, I think you actually believe it.

Christine


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BlueNOX said:


> I actually disagree with you. I've said that.
> 
> However with that said, if there were charges I'm smart enough to talk to no one but my attorney. And with him I would stand by my actions.
> 
> ...


So your saying what you did wasnt completely allowable by law? If it we're, you should have zero fear of telling law enforcement, word for word, exatly how you described the scenario.


BlueNOX said:


> but
> Your scenario doesn't work. Your assuming this is a law abiding citizen. Movement of a sports coat is not brandishing. Not in AZ. Not a single cop would arrest for it and not a single prosecutor would prosecute. If they did the judge would bust up laughing.
> 
> Further, your assuming a blank stare.
> ...


First lets reverse the situation. While hes staring at you, you are also staring at him, right?

If he was wearing a coat and he lifted up his coat, intentionally showing displaying his gun on his hip, would you feel threatened?

You are still just assuming he's a criminal. He had done nothing to indicate anything. Weird? Maybe. A creep? Maybe. Rude staring person? Check. Criminal? No go.

If the scneario played out how I described, intentionally making the assumption hes a law abiding citizens since in America were innocent untril proven guilty, youd be a hit water and you know it. The only reason you can play it off like you did nothing wrong is because no incident occured but if an incident occurred and a criminal investigation was pending, you would not feel as confident of a succesful defense as you claim.

In my scenario, that man had absolutely 100% claim for self defense because you displayed a threat first.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Mind your own business 
Go to Five Points

Good luck.



Christinebitg said:


> Well.
> 
> If that's your opinion of Texas, I'll have to revise my opinion of you.
> 
> ...


God Bless Texas.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> So your saying what you did wasnt completely allowable by law? If it we're, you should have zero fear of telling law enforcement, word for word, exatly how you described the scenario.
> 
> First lets reverse the situation. While hes staring at you, you are also staring at him, right?
> 
> ...


No, no matter what one does not talk to police, we pay attorneys to talk to them. But then again you live in a land of skittlecorns.


----------



## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I've also heard that the right way to keep a gun at home is in a gun safe,unloaded... How do you defend yourself??? Hold up, Mr Bad Guy, I gotta open this safe"


I actually have a friend that keeps his gun in his gun safe in his closet and his ammo at another location, and keeps the firearm locked with a cable lock. Makes no sense at all to me. I suggested he get a quick release safe (Like this one). To my knowledge though, he hasn't.



Christinebitg said:


> Mike, I agree with most of what you said, except for this:
> 
> When I was a kid, one of the neighborhood kids lost his father, who was a police officer. While working, he dropped his handgun, which discharged went it hit the ground. He died from the gunshot wound.
> 
> ...


see below


PatsFan69 said:


> That's why every gun has to pass a Drop test. Unless they are defective they should never discharge when dropped.





WAHN said:


> Technically, that didn't really go off on its own, but then there is the Remington 700
> 
> What are some opinions on cross draw holsters? This article favors an AIWB over cross draw but I'm not really interested in an IWB and think a cross draw would be more comfortable overall when driving and give me one less thing to think about if I need to bail out of the car.


Barsony makes some good shoulder holsters.



U/L guy said:


> The worst part of having to use a gun is if you kill someone you'll have to live with that for the rest of your life. I know a lot of former soldiers who had no choice but to take a life in self defense, it still haunts them every day.
> Taking a life is not like it's in a movie, it eats at your conscience until the day you die.


I can only imagine and hope I never have to.



BlueNOX said:


> For beginners I recommend the Springfield XD line. From large frame to small. Has a double safety in the grip and trigger that automatically goes on and off based on if your holding it correctly. Fairly smooth gun, light trigger pressure.
> 
> The walthers are awesome guns but they have earned their nickname the angry bastard for a reason.


I'm a fan of Ruger. The SR Series and the American series are both great options. Both use the same basic frame so holsters are interchangeable for both. Never had either of them jam on me in the several thousand rounds I've put down range.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> I never have a round chambered.


Defeats the purpose of being able to defend yourself quickly if you have to take the time to chamber a round before you can fire. I can attest that seconds matter in a robbery type situation.



BlueNOX said:


> I absolutely love how these liberals interpret the laws. They don't get that thebdefensive display gives you the right to draw based upon the idea that your about to be attacked. The threshold is not to protect life but to prevent or end any physical altercation.
> 
> They've never owned a gun, don't even know where the trigger is or the bullets go. I bet they think a semi-automatic is an assault weapon and think AR 15?stands for assault rifle.
> 
> To bad they were born with micro testacles and don't have enough testosterone to defend themselves let alone their family.


Honestly, insulting a group of people on a personal level does far more damage to your argument than providing facts and keeping the discussion on topic.


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> I actually have a friend that keeps his gun in his gun safe in his closet and his ammo at another location, and keeps the firearm locked with a cable lock. Makes no sense at all to me. I suggested he get a quick release safe (Like this one). To my knowledge though, he hasn't.
> 
> see below
> 
> ...


Don't pay any attention to this guy who whines about liberals, he's just a coward without a weapon and has a really small penis.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> I actually have a friend that keeps his gun in his gun safe in his closet and his ammo at another location, and keeps the firearm locked with a cable lock. Makes no sense at all to me. I suggested he get a quick release safe (Like this one). To my knowledge though, he hasn't.
> 
> see below
> 
> ...


I was finish up. We're close to 300 posts on this topic and just gave my observation. If it hurt your feelings or their feelings, I have liberals have therapists for that.


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> I absolutely love how these liberals interpret the laws. They don't get that thebdefensive display gives you the right to draw based upon the idea that your about to be attacked. The threshold is not to protect life but to prevent or end any physical altercation.
> 
> They've never owned a gun, don't even know where the trigger is or the bullets go. I bet they think a semi-automatic is an assault weapon and think AR 15?stands for assault rifle.
> 
> To bad they were born with micro testacles and don't have enough testosterone to defend themselves let alone their family.


I think it's safe to assume that you may be the one lacking in testosterone, and spelling.


----------



## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> I was finish up. We're close to 300 posts on this topic and just gave my observation. If it hurt your feelings or their feelings, I have liberals have therapists for that.


I have thicker skin than that. Just stating that IMO, if you have to stoop to making personal attacks, you have lost any argument or the point you are making has been invalidated.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

TXUbering said:


> I think it's safe to assume that you may be the one lacking in testosterone, and spelling.


Oh yes, the spelling police. Sure you don't need to radio in for back up? Maybe get the spelling SWAT out here.



Mikeoftulsa said:


> I have thicker skin than that. Just stating that IMO, if you have to stoop to making personal attacks, you have lost any argument or the point you are making has been invalidated.


Don't care. Effective arguments with statistics have been made. Liberals prefer to to throw personal opinions and fear mongering responses. Just communicating on their/your level is all. It is rude and condescending to talk down to others.


----------



## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Oh yes, the spelling police. Sure you don't need to radio in for back up? Maybe get the spelling SWAT out here.
> 
> 
> Don't care. Effective arguments with statistics have been made. Liberals prefer to to throw personal opinions and fear mongering responses. Just communicating on their/*your* level is all. It is rude and condescending to talk down to others.


I do agree that when it comes to arguments, the liberals / leftist tend to argue from an emotional standpoint and tend to ignore facts and throw out personal attacks. I don't believe I have made any personal attacks or been rude or condescending to anyone.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Its pretty simple. Don't like guns, don't own one or carry one. Like guns great, own and carry what you want. What ever side you are on if fine with me, just don't try and force your beliefs on me. When it comes to guns one side, for the most part, wants to own them and be left alone, the other side wants nothing to do with them and also wants no one else to have them accept the government. Of course there are some exceptions to that but not many. That is the issue I have with the gun hater/grabbers.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

dauction said:


> Because you are afraid


Could you please elaborate? We carry not because we are "afraid", it is because we want to go home at the end of the day/night.

I was talking to a guy the other day and he said, " Why do you hide your gun but use your Concealed Carry Permit . . . ?" I told him I am not "hiding" my firearm, I am staying within the confines of the law regarding open carry and concealed carry.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> I do agree that when it comes to arguments, the liberals / leftist tend to argue from an emotional standpoint and tend to ignore facts and throw out personal attacks. I don't believe I have made any personal attacks or been rude or condescending to anyone.


Not that I recall, just tired of it. Not going back to do a full verification. If I'm recalling correctly I do apologize. I'll trust your memory as it might be better than mine on this.


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

wn100804 said:


> Could you please elaborate? We carry not because we are "afraid", it is because we want to go home at the end of the day/night.
> 
> I was talking to a guy the other day and he said, " Why do you hide your gun but use your Concealed Carry Permit . . . ?" I told him I am not "hiding" my firearm, I am staying within the confines of the law regarding open carry and concealed carry.


Because you are afraid.. you are gambling and the odds are MORE Likely that your Gun will be stolen , or used domestic violence or kids, grand kids will be hurt or killed than the odds of you ever "not going home" ...

And where do your guns go when you die? Who is the responsible person that gets them ? Or will one of your nutso relative s(we all have them" help themselves....

Again ..the Bottom line is you are AFRAID of life , you are afraid of living ..you live in a paranoid state ...and nothing healthy about that at all


----------



## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

dauction said:


> Because you are afraid.. you are gambling and the odds are MORE Likely that your Gun will be stolen , or used domestic violence or kids, grand kids will be hurt or killed than the odds of you ever "not going home" ...
> 
> And where do your guns go when you die? Who is the responsible person that gets them ? Or will one of your nutso relative s(we all have them" help themselves....
> 
> Again ..the Bottom line is you are AFRAID of life , you are afraid of living ..you live in a paranoid state ...and nothing healthy about that at all


I'm going to disagree with you. Fear is not what motivates me to carry. The fact I value my life and my families life more than someone that wants to do me harm is what motivates me to carry.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> I actually have a friend that keeps his gun in his gun safe in his closet and his ammo at another location, and keeps the firearm locked with a cable lock. Makes no sense at all to me. I suggested he get a quick release safe (Like this one). To my knowledge though, he hasn't.
> 
> see below
> 
> ...


My sidearm for decades has been a S&W model19 357 revolver ....transitioning now to my Walther PPQ 9mm, waiting until I am more comfortable with him before chambering a round.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

dauction said:


> Because you are afraid.. you are gambling and the odds are MORE Likely that your Gun will be stolen , or used domestic violence or kids, grand kids will be hurt or killed than the odds of you ever "not going home" ...
> 
> And where do your guns go when you die? Who is the responsible person that gets them ? Or will one of your nutso relative s(we all have them" help themselves....
> 
> Again ..the Bottom line is you are AFRAID of life , you are afraid of living ..you live in a paranoid state ...and nothing healthy about that at all


You know, fear is a great motivator.

I fear being homeless so I work to make money to pay my bills. Is that wrong?

I fear dieing of starvation, I hear it's painful so I work to make money to buy food and I eat. Is that wrong?

I fear a drunk driver will hit my car one day, hurting me, my family, friends and even passengers. So I buy insurance and drive defensively. Is that wrong?

I fear pax will vomit in my car so I don't pick up pax who appear severely intoxicated. Is that wrong?

I fear a Democrat will get into office and turn this great country into a communist state so I vote for the conservative candidates who appreciate small gov't, is that wrong?

Fear can motivate and paralyze an individual.

Yes I fear that I will be confronted by someone with a gun who wants to do me, my family, my friends and even my neighbors harm. I carry because I choose to not let that fear paralyze me.

I'm not ashamed to say I have fears, I'm a man and I'm human. But unlike you I do not allow those fears to make me step off and cower, instead I embrace those fears and find security within how I overcome them. If I lose my job I don't sit at home crying over it, I have savings and other incomes, I utilize those while I look for a new to me job. That is what a man does and yes, a real man overcomes the fear of something happening to his family and acts proactively vs the cowards way of reactively.

I will not wait for my family to be attacked to buy a gun and train because by then it will be to late. I have bought my guns already and I train regularly so I am prepared if something begins to happen. This is why I carry.

You don't carry because your paralyzed by all the what if fears of the liberal skittlecorns towards guns.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

dauction said:


> Because you are afraid.. you are gambling and the odds are MORE Likely that your Gun will be stolen , or used domestic violence or kids, grand kids will be hurt or killed than the odds of you ever "not going home" ...
> 
> And where do your guns go when you die? Who is the responsible person that gets them ? Or will one of your nutso relative s(we all have them" help themselves....
> 
> Again ..the Bottom line is you are AFRAID of life , you are afraid of living ..you live in a paranoid state ...and nothing healthy about that at all


The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.


Not true Wolfgang. There are skittles, just feel the rainbow. And what about carebears? They have their own rainbow to stop bullets. Superman's chest stops bullets, I seen it happen in a movie. And overpowering the matrix can stop bullets too. Reeves did it, I watched it on tv.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> I'm going to disagree with you. Fear is not what motivates me to carry. The fact I value my life and my families life more than someone that wants to do me harm is what motivates me to carry.


That you think someone wants to do you harm tells me all I need to know about your fear.

Guns, hand guns in particular, are made for only one purpose and that is to kill. Generally speaking I think the motivation to carry is the high that comes with the thought that today might be the day that you kill someone....that or to compensate for a little pecker


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

oldfart said:


> That you think someone wants to do you harm tells me all I need to know about your fear.
> 
> Guns, hand guns in particular, are made for only one purpose and that is to kill. Generally speaking I think the motivation to carry is the high that comes with the thought that today might be the day that you kill someone....that or to compensate for a little pecker


You like pecker, huh?
Bless your heart.
?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> That you think someone wants to do you harm tells me all I need to know about your fear.
> 
> Guns, hand guns in particular, are made for only one purpose and that is to kill. Generally speaking I think the motivation to carry is the high that comes with the thought that today might be the day that you kill someone....that or to compensate for a little pecker


Guns are made to not kill. I've never seen a gun kill anyone and I've shot many guns and in Khandahar I killed, never with a gun.

Now bullets, those do kill when used with a gun. Guns are made to fire bullets in a very controlled environment. Yes, you can fire a bullet without a gun. Hammer and center punch work well but it's extremely dangerous.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Mind your own business
> Go to Five Points
> 
> Good luck.
> ...


Well, that may be one of the few things we agree on. I've lived here for 22 years, and have no desire to ever leave the Lone Star State.

I was taking exception to the implication (by someone else) that there are a bunch of pinko communist sympathizers running this state.

His exact words were:

"Texas is a yellow bellied communist state run by liberal antifa members."


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Guns are made to not kill. I've never seen a gun kill anyone and I've shot many guns and in Khandahar I killed, never with a gun.
> 
> Now bullets, those do kill when used with a gun. Guns are made to fire bullets in a very controlled environment. Yes, you can fire a bullet without a gun. Hammer and center punch work well but it's extremely dangerous.


I stand corrected. "Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people" I always thought it went like this; "guns don't kill people, people kill people"

How is this instead? "Guns don't kill people; people with guns and bullets kill people


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> Its pretty simple. Don't like guns, don't own one or carry one. Like guns great, own and carry what you want. What ever side you are on if fine with me, just don't try and force your beliefs on me. When it comes to guns one side, for the most part, wants to own them and be left alone, the other side wants nothing to do with them and also wants no one else to have them accept the government. Of course there are some exceptions to that but not many. That is the issue I have with the gun hater/grabbers.


I don't mind people carrying either. It's the pathetic man that uses a gun to try and intimidate someone else. That's not what a weapon should be used for. It's not a toy, then again there are a lot of child-men out there.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I stand corrected. "Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people" I always thought it went like this; "guns don't kill people, people kill people"
> 
> How is this instead? "Guns don't kill people; people with guns and bullets kill people


That comment was wrong and totally uncalled for. If not here in AZ, I'd be in Texas. My brother, his daughter and family are in Wimberley, nephew and his family in San Antonio. I love Texas.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

TXUbering said:


> I don't mind people carrying either. It's the pathetic man that uses a gun to try and intimidate someone else. That's not what a weapon should be used for. It's not a toy, then again there are a lot of child-men out there.


I am pro gun but this thread has me questioning the motives / intelligence / sanity of gun nuts.

If the liberals want to damage gun rights, all they have to do is pretend to be pro gun and follow the script that was written by the OP. That will cause anyone to question the wisdom of allowing ppl to carry.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> I am pro gun but this thread has me questioning the motives / intelligence / sanity of gun nuts.
> 
> If the liberals want to damage gun rights, all they have to do is pretend to be pro gun and follow the script that was written by the OP. That will cause anyone to question the wisdom of allowing ppl to carry.


And if people want to mug a landlord and walk away with the money and no fight they just need to come to you.



Christinebitg said:


> Well, that may be one of the few things we agree on. I've lived here for 22 years, and have no desire to ever leave the Lone Star State.
> 
> I was taking exception to the implication (by someone else) that there are a bunch of pinko communist sympathizers running this state.
> 
> ...


To you I apologize Christine, but not the person I said it to. While most of Texas is pretty awesome, the capital is filled with socialist liberals, that's a known fact and why Texas has such restrictive gun laws. Texas just recently got open carry but it comes with several restrictions.


----------



## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

OldBay said:


> I am pro gun but this thread has me questioning the motives / intelligence / sanity of gun nuts.
> 
> If the liberals want to damage gun rights, all they have to do is pretend to be pro gun and follow the script that was written by the OP. That will cause anyone to question the wisdom of allowing ppl to carry.


Sadly, I think a lot of people have guns for the wrong reason. I'm also not all about the whole, "We need our guns to keep government in check" argument either. The government has all kinds of crazy firepower. If these same people were fighting for their right to a nuclear weapon, then I'd at least respect their stance. The keeping government in check is probably the most comical of the arguments, as if their little guns are going to really keep the government in check.



BlueNOX said:


> And if people want to mug a landlord and walk away with the money and no fight they just need to come to you.


I'm thinking you're probably too paranoid to be carrying a gun. Either that, or you're looking for these types of scenarios so you have an excuse to use your gun. Either way, you probably don't need to be carrying a gun.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

TXUbering said:


> Sadly, I think a lot of people have guns for the wrong reason. I'm also not all about the whole, "We need our guns to keep government in check" argument either. The government has all kinds of crazy firepower. If these same people were fighting for their right to a nuclear weapon, then I'd at least respect their stance. The keeping government in check is probably the most comical of the arguments, as if their little guns are going to really keep the government in check.


Until you I don't believe anyone here mentioned keeping the Gov't in check. You f course, that is exactly why the constitution has the 2nd Amendment and that it can NOT be infringed upon.

Pass gun control laws. Gun owners will continue to fight them in court and win. Expect the bump stock to be legal in about a year again.



TXUbering said:


> Sadly, I think a lot of people have guns for the wrong reason. I'm also not all about the whole, "We need our guns to keep government in check" argument either. The government has all kinds of crazy firepower. If these same people were fighting for their right to a nuclear weapon, then I'd at least respect their stance. The keeping government in check is probably the most comical of the arguments, as if their little guns are going to really keep the government in check.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking you're probably too paranoid to be carrying a gun. Either that, or you're looking for these types of scenarios so you have an excuse to use your gun.


Go back and read his earlier posts. He bragged about not carrying while collecting rents because he was scared they'd steal his gun. Wouldn't even need a gun to mug him. He'd be scared of a finger stuck in his back.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

The second amendment reinforces the first.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

dauction said:


> Because you are afraid.. you are gambling and the odds are MORE Likely that your Gun will be stolen , or used domestic violence or kids, grand kids will be hurt or killed than the odds of you ever "not going home" ...
> 
> And where do your guns go when you die? Who is the responsible person that gets them ? Or will one of your nutso relative s(we all have them" help themselves....
> 
> Again ..the Bottom line is you are AFRAID of life , you are afraid of living ..you live in a paranoid state ...and nothing healthy about that at all


NO one is going to bring harm to my wife while I am around. "Paranoid?" Not paranoid, in fact I live my life in the most relaxed state knowing that some scum is not going to bust in my front door like what happened many years ago BEFORE I became woke. And you live in Minnesota, land of trigger happy moslom cops and even worse, a moslom US Representative who was elected because she ran unopposed.

Also, about 5 years ago, my wife was parking the car in the garage. As she exited the car, some woman was standing right there in the doorway and surprised my wife. My wife had no where to go as the car door was open and she could not go 'away' from the woman. My wife was terrified for several seconds before the woman asked my wife "I found these keys in the street in front of your house, do you know who they belong to"? Telling me the story I could hear the fear and terror in my wife's voice. The next week, both of us signed up for concealed carry classes, gun safety and education classes. We both carry now. Ruger makes awesome lightweight 5 shot .357Mags. Go ahead, surprise me wife again in a life or death situation. I guarantee she will not be approached like that again.

I leave you with one thought. "When seconds (or less) count, the police are minutes away". What will you do? Wait for a moslom cop to show up?


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

wn100804 said:


> NO one is going to bring harm to my wife while I am around. "Paranoid?" Not paranoid, in fact I live my life in the most relaxed state knowing that some scum is not going to bust in my front door like what happened many years ago BEFORE I became woke. And you live in Minnesota, land of trigger happy moslom cops and even worse, a moslom US Representative who was elected because she ran unopposed.
> 
> Also, about 5 years ago, my wife was parking the car in the garage. As she exited the car, some woman was standing right there in the doorway and surprised my wife. My wife had no where to go as the car door was open and she could not go 'away' from the woman. My wife was terrified for several seconds before the woman asked my wife "I found these keys in the street in front of your house, do you know who they belong to"? Telling me the story I could hear the fear and terror in my wife's voice. The next week, both of us signed up for concealed carry classes, gun safety and education classes. We both carry now. Ruger makes awesome lightweight 5 shot .357Mags. Go ahead, surprise me wife again in a life or death situation. I guarantee she will not be approached like that again.
> 
> I leave you with one thought. "When seconds (or less) count, the police are minutes away". What will you do? Wait for a moslom cop to show up?


Wow...more ignorance. This time about "Mosloms" (I assume he means Muslims).

So I guess if your wife was carrying, the lady trying to do a good deed with the keys would be dead now?

I have no problems with carrying. But unfortunately, for the folks that carry for the right reasons and are of sound mind, many vocal supporters don't seem very stable and do a serious disservice to those that carry.


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

wn100804 said:


> NO one is going to bring harm to my wife while I am around. "Paranoid?" Not paranoid, in fact I live my life in the most relaxed state knowing that some scum is not going to bust in my front door like what happened many years ago BEFORE I became woke. And you live in Minnesota, land of trigger happy moslom cops and even worse, a moslom US Representative who was elected because she ran unopposed.
> 
> Also, about 5 years ago, my wife was parking the car in the garage. As she exited the car, some woman was standing right there in the doorway and surprised my wife. My wife had no where to go as the car door was open and she could not go 'away' from the woman. My wife was terrified for several seconds before the woman asked my wife "I found these keys in the street in front of your house, do you know who they belong to"? Telling me the story I could hear the fear and terror in my wife's voice. The next week, both of us signed up for concealed carry classes, gun safety and education classes. We both carry now. Ruger makes awesome lightweight 5 shot .357Mags. Go ahead, surprise me wife again in a life or death situation. I guarantee she will not be approached like that again.
> 
> I leave you with one thought. "When seconds (or less) count, the police are minutes away". What will you do? Wait for a moslom cop to show up?





wn100804 said:


> NO one is going to bring harm to my wife while I am around. "Paranoid?" Not paranoid, in fact I live my life in the most relaxed state knowing that some scum is not going to bust in my front door like what happened many years ago BEFORE I became woke. And you live in Minnesota, land of trigger happy moslom cops and even worse, a moslom US Representative who was elected because she ran unopposed.
> 
> Also, about 5 years ago, my wife was parking the car in the garage. As she exited the car, some woman was standing right there in the doorway and surprised my wife. My wife had no where to go as the car door was open and she could not go 'away' from the woman. My wife was terrified for several seconds before the woman asked my wife "I found these keys in the street in front of your house, do you know who they belong to"? Telling me the story I could hear the fear and terror in my wife's voice. The next week, both of us signed up for concealed carry classes, gun safety and education classes. We both carry now. Ruger makes awesome lightweight 5 shot .357Mags. Go ahead, surprise me wife again in a life or death situation. I guarantee she will not be approached like that again.
> 
> I leave you with one thought. "When seconds (or less) count, the police are minutes away". What will you do? Wait for a moslom cop to show up?


You're incorrect ...



Wolfgang Faust said:


> The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.


Ummm it is the "good guys" that keep giving the bad guys the guns



BlueNOX said:


> Until you I don't believe anyone here mentioned keeping the Gov't in check. You f course, that is exactly why the constitution has the 2nd Amendment and that it can NOT be infringed upon.
> 
> Pass gun control laws. Gun owners will continue to fight them in court and win. Expect the bump stock to be legal in about a year again.
> 
> ...


Wrong ... the 2nd amendment is just like all the other amendments to the Constitution ..Amendments have been changed in the past and can be changed again....btw unless you belong to a well regulated militia the 2nd amendment dosent even give the right to own a gun

A 4-year-old accidentally shoots himself in the head. He's the 5th family member to fall victim to guns

Ramon Price picked up his telephone and was immediately jolted by screams.
"Daddy just pray," his daughter Brijjanna Price shrieked through tears on the other end of the line.
She told him his 4-year-old grandson, Na'vaun Jackson, had found a gun at a friend's home in Oakland and accidentally shot himself in the head.
The boy was rushed to a nearby hospital and admitted to an intensive care unit, where he was fighting for his life. The situation looked dire, and the family was afraid they would lose yet another relative to gunfire -- they had already lost four.

It's been several weeks since the March 27 accident and Na'vaun is now in stable condition, but Brijjanna Price still can't bring herself to talk about it.
The gun Na'vaun found belonged to family friend Terrence Wilson, who was prohibited from owning a firearm due to prior felony convictions, CNN affiliate KRON4 reported. It was left unlocked and loaded under Wilson's pillow.
Police have charged Wilson with possession of a firearm by a felon and child abuse. CNN was unable to reach Wilson for comment.
"It was real irresponsible," Ramon Price said. "And unfortunately it was my grandson who got to pay the ultimate price."

*2-year-old boy accidentally shoots himself, dies, mother says*

The child's mother, Donna Crump-Piedra, told ActionNewsJaxreporter Ryan Nelson that her son had accidentally shot himself with a gun that wasn't secured while they were visiting someone.

*Boy, 8, finds gun and accidentally shoots mom at college baseball game, police say*

A college baseball game was postponed in Tennessee on Tuesday evening after an 8-year-old boy allegedly shot his mother in what police are saying was an accident, according to reports.

The unidentified woman was transported to a hospital in critical condition but her condition was later upgraded to stable, FOX 13 of Memphis reported.

The owner of the gun has been detained and police are conducting an investigation to determine if they will press charges, authorities said.

The shooting happened at USA Stadium in Millington, where the University of Memphis Tigers were playing the University of Tennessee at Martin.

*Ohio Police Officer's 4-Year-Old Accidentally Kills Himself With Gun On Mother's Day (another good guy with a gun)*
In a tragic Mother's Day accident, an Ohio State Trooper's young son fatally shot himself in the face, according to reports.

Mere weeks after graduating from the police academy, Ohio Highway Patrol State Trooper Fu "Frankie" Young "was sleeping and had heard a pop sound that awoke him" on Sunday, according to a police report obtained by PEOPLE.

Dr. Diane Scala-Barnett, the Lucas County coroner, told the Toledo Blade newspaper that the victim, 4-year-old Evan Sun, "shot himself in the face after finding an unsecured weapon

*Child accidentally shoots mother with shotgun from backseat of car*
A child sitting in the backseat of a four-door sedan accidentally shot his mother with a shotgun on Wednesday, critically injuring her as she sat in the driver's seat.

The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office said it responded to the shooting at about 3:30 p.m. in Norwalk, California, regarding a "rescue responding, assault with a deadly weapon, gunshot victim." The shooting happened just steps from a preschool though it's not known if any of the children were attendees.

Upon their arrival, deputies found the mother suffering from an apparent gunshot wound to the torso. She was taken to a local hospital where her condition was upgraded to fair, and she is expected to survive.

*3-YEAR-OLD BOY ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS, KILLS 4-YEAR-OLD SISTER*
4-year-old girl has died after she was accidentally shot by her 3-year-old brother. The accident occurred on Thursday at the children's grandparents' home in Lebanon, WRTVreported.

The girl, identified as Izabella-Marie Helem, was initially taken to a hospital in critical condition.

The 3-year-old boy accidentally shot his sister in the head, according to Lebanon Police. It was not immediately clear what type of gun it was.

*Arizona Boy Fatally Shoots Grandmother Who Asked Him to Clean Up, Then Kills Himself, Police Say*
All day on Saturday, Yvonne Woodard and Doyle W. Hebert tried to get their 11-year-old grandson to clean up his room at their home in Litchfield Park, Ariz., about 20 miles northwest of Phoenix.

Late that afternoon, the couple, who had custody of the child, sat down in their living room to watch television, the authorities said.

Then, according to a statement from Sgt. Joaquin Enriquez, a spokesman for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, the boy, whose name was not released, picked up Mr. Hebert's handgun, came up behind the couple, and fatally shot his grandmother in the back of the head.

*Deputies: 4-year-old accidentally shoots mom in face in Skyway*
The mom is 27 years old. She is eight months pregnant. She was laying on the bed watching TV - her and her boyfriend," said Sgt. Ryan Abbott of the King County Sheriff's Office.

Abbott said the boyfriend - and father of the child - told deputies he had just moved the gun from a higher location and placed the loaded gun between the mattress and the box spring Friday night, after hearing some noises outside their home.

"He (the child) found a handgun that was unsecured there and he grabbed it, and before anyone knew what happened, heard a pop sound. And the mom was shot on her face area," Abbott said.

*A 6-year-old boy died after finding a loaded gun in a home, police say*
A 6-year-old boy died Saturday morning after finding a loaded gun and shooting himself in the head inside a Miami Gardens home, police confirmed.

Miami Gardens Public Information Officer Carolyn Frazier, who responded to the scene, said officers received a 911 call about 9 a.m. Saturday regarding a shooting in the 2100 block of NW 27th Court.

Frazier said a boy sustained a serious gunshot injury while in the supervision of two caretakers.

The boy's parents were not at the home, and it remains unclear if the individuals at the home at the time of the shooting are the boy's permanent caretakers.

*NC dad charged after boy finds gun in car, shoots himself in face, police say*
RANDLEMAN, N.C. (WFMY) -- Charges have been filed against the father of a 5-year-old who shot himself in the face in a Wendy's parking lot over the weekend.

The incident happened in Randleman on Sunday.

Jayden, of Kernersville, is still listed in critical condition.

Police say the child, who was sitting in the backseat, unlatched himself from his booster seat and grabbed a gun that was in a seat pocket.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Until you I don't believe anyone here mentioned keeping the Gov't in check. You f course, that is exactly why the constitution has the 2nd Amendment and that it can NOT be infringed upon.
> 
> Pass gun control laws. Gun owners will continue to fight them in court and win. Expect the bump stock to be legal in about a year again.
> 
> ...


There are levels of fear and paranoia and concern. I feared using a gun or having one used on me, more than I was afraid of losing my money, but I didn't not take precautions. After collecting a couple of payments I'd go to the main post office that was open all night to buy a money order and send it home (this was in the days before cell phones and atms

I'll be damned if I'm going to risk shooting someone, or being shot over a few dollars


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

*Glendale kid underwent surgery after father shoots her by mistake*
*PD: Father arrested after he accidentally shot his daughter in Glendale*

A Glendale father arrested after accidentally shooting his 6-year-old daughter has made his initial court appearance, where a cash-only bond was set at $50,000.

*Parents not charged after 4-year-old shoots his 6-year-old sister in Paulding County*
DALLAS, Ga. - A 6-year-old girl from Paulding County is fighting to survive after her younger brother accidentally shot her in the driveway of their home.

Deputies said the children's mother had loaded the girl and her 4-year-old brother into her four-door silver sedan when the car wouldn't start. Police said she got out to see what was wrong and moments later, heard a gunshot.

*Boy Accidentally Shoots Teen Girl in the Face Inside Rhawnhurst Home, Police Say*
_Update: The 12-year-old boy has been charged as a juvnile with aggravated assault and related counts._

A 12-year-old boy playing with a loaded gun accidentally shot a teen girl in the face inside a home in the Rhawnhurst section of Philadelphia, according to police.

Investigators say the boy was showing off his family's gun collection to three girls inside the basement of a home on the 2000 block of Glendale Avenue Monday, shortly before 10:30 a.m. He then accidentally fired a gun he was holding and struck one of the girls in the face. Investigators say the boy didn't realize the gun

*4-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills 2-year-old cousin; grandfather arrested: Authorities*
A 4-year-old boy shot and killed his 2-year-old cousin at a home in Muscoy, California, according to local authorities.

The victim's grandfather, Cesar Lopez, 53, was arrested and charged with child endangerment and being a felon in possession of a firearm, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department announced on Twitter.

Deputies responded to a report of a shooting at the home Friday morning. The victim, a 2-year-old girl, was found suffering from a gunshot wound and was taken to a local hospital where she was pronounced dead, the sheriff's office said.

This is what happens with Guns in the homes ....Odds are the someone will kill themselves , kill a neighbor or a child wil get ahold of the gun and kill himself or a sibling or a friend ....

I am not afraid to live my life ..but I would be worried to have a gun in the house..that our grandkids would find while playing or that a thrif would steal while we are away (and then use to kill 7-11 cleark etc..)..

I am not afraid to live....and I will not contribute to those who are afraid


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

wn100804 said:


> My wife was terrified for several seconds before the woman asked my wife "I found these keys in the street in front of your house, do you know who they belong to"?


It sounds to me like your wife has bought into some hysteria about muslims.

Being terrified of a woman who walks up to you in a parking garage seems like a very big over-reaction.



dauction said:


> Glendale kid underwent surgery after father shoots her by mistake


I am entirely unimpressed by the news reports you cited. Each of them is an example of irresponsible gun ownership.

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who use very normal, acceptable ways of keeping their firearms away from children.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> It sounds to me like your wife has bought into some hysteria about muslims.
> 
> Being terrified of a woman who walks up to you in a parking garage seems like a very big over-reaction.
> 
> ...


 The vast Majority of Guns owners...

WASHINGTON - About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year- about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes.

These estimates are based on data from the annual National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) which has collected information from victims of crime since 1973. Of the guns stolen each year during burglaries and other property crimes, at least 80 percent, or an annual average of 186,800 firearms, had not been recovered up to six months after being stolen.

From 2005 through 2010, firearms were stolen in about four percent of the 2.4 million household burglaries and in less than one percent of the 13.6 million other property crimes involving a completed theft that occurred during the period. Longer trends from 1994 to 2010 show a 49 percent decline in the total number of victimizations involving the theft of at least one firearm, from about 283,600 victimizations in 1994 to about 145,300 in 2010.

Handguns were the most commonly stolen firearm from 2005 through 2010. At least one handgun was stolen in 63 percent of household burglaries and 68 percent of other property crimes involving firearm theft. More than one gun was stolen in 39 percent of burglaries and 15 percent of other property crimes involving gun theft.

Household burglaries involving stolen firearms were more likely to be reported to police (86 percent) than burglaries involving the theft of other items (62 percent) of comparable value ($500-$999). When a handgun was stolen, about 90 percent of burglaries were reported to the police.

From 2005 through 2010, household property crimes involving only stolen firearms resulted in a total loss of about $27 million per year. The average financial loss when only one gun was stolen was between $400 and $500 per incident.

Other findings showed-


About three out of four household property crimes involving stolen firearms occurred in households headed by white non-Hispanic persons.
From 2005 through 2010, the majority of household burglaries (56 percent) or other property crimes (59 percent) involving stolen firearms occurred in the South.
Households in rural areas experienced a disproportionate percentage of burglaries involving stolen firearms (34 percent), compared to the overall percentage of U.S. households located in rural areas (17 percent


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Did you actually say that unless one belongs to a well regulated militia the 2nd Amendment does not give them the right to own guns? I want to make sure we are reading the same document. Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America is what I'm reading and I quote:
*
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.*

It does not say anywhere one has to bear arms. It simply states that a well regulated militia is necessary for a free state, it then goes on and gives people the uninfringable right to own guns. No other Amendment says it *shall not be infringed.*

Seriously, where do you even begin to come up with this theory?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> I am entirely unimpressed by the news reports you cited. Each of them is an example of irresponsible gun ownership.
> 
> The vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who use very normal, acceptable ways of keeping their firearms away from children.


I don't have any more data on this subject than you do, but I suspect most gun owners, even those with children, do not keep their guns the way they should

A whole 'nother thing are folks that are suicidal A gun in a home with a person like this is just asking for a tragedy


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

At Least Half of Gun owners dont secure their Guns ....(IE...Most Gun Owners are NOT responsible gun owners)

*More than half of all gun owners store at least one gun unsafely*-without any locks or other safe storage measures.2


In fact, nearly a quarter of all gun owners report storing all of their guns in an unlocked location in the home.3
While some data suggests that gun owners with children in the home are slightly more likely than other gun owners to store firearms safely,4 roughly 4.6 million minors live in homes with loaded, unlocked firearms.5
*Unsecured guns in the home pose a substantial risk to children* who may find and use them against themselves or others.


Household guns are a major source of weapons used by youth in violence against themselves or others. Between 70 and 90% of guns used in youth suicides, unintentional shootings among children, and school shooting perpetrated by shooters under the age of 18 are acquired from the home or the homes of relatives or friends.6
Accordingly, the risk of suicide and unintentional shootings among youth increases in homes where guns are kept loaded and/or unlocked.7
*Unsecured weapons in homes and vehicles are also fueling an epidemic of gun thefts across the country.* These guns may be diverted to the underground market, where they are used in crime.


Nationally-representative survey data suggests that approximately 380,000 guns are stolen from individual gun owners each year.8
From 2006 to 2016, the number of guns reported stolen from individuals increased by approximately 60%.9 Similarly, many cities have reported alarming spikes in the number of firearms stolen from cars.10
An analysis of more than 23,000 stolen firearms recovered by police between 2010 and 2016 found that the majority of these weapons were recovered in connection with crimes, including more than 1,500 violent acts such as murder, kidnapping, and armed robbery.11
*Safe storage behavior can help to mitigate the risks of unsecured guns*, with studies showing that these practices can prevent both firearm injuries and gun thefts.


Estimates suggest that modest increases in the number of American homes safely storing firearms could prevent almost a third of youth gun deaths due to suicide and unintentional firearm injury.12
Compared with people who stored their firearms unlocked and/or loaded, those who stored their firearms safely were less likely to die by firearm suicide.13


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

dauction said:


> The vast Majority of Guns owners...
> 
> WASHINGTON - About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year- about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what your attempting to show here. Yes, homes get broken into. Yes guns get stolen sometimes. Those numbers hardly represent the majority of gun owners.

Today we have 127.59 million households in the United States. You stated 2.4 million households were burglarized over 6 years (2005-2010). That comes out to 1.88% chance of a home being robbed over a 6 year period. Actually a very low crime statistic.

You go on and say 4% of burglaries involved stealing a handgun. Okay 4% of 2.4 million is 96000.

You do realize that 42% of US Households own at least 1 gun. So that means if 2.4 million homes were burglarized 42% of them had guns, but only 4% had guns stolen.

That's proof right there that most people are responsible gun owners. Thank you for your post.

The US has 120.5 million firearms owned by citizens.

You said 380,000 guns are stolen each year.

That means less than 1/2 a percent are stolen. To be specific it is 0.3153527% of firearms are stolen annually.

Wait, before you said 4% of 2.4 million homes burglarized had a gun stolen. Now your attempting to claim a bigger number but it actually shows even less.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

dauction said:


> You're incorrect ...
> 
> 
> Ummm it is the "good guys" that keep giving the bad guys the guns
> ...


You should have stopped at "Ummm", the most intelligent thing you wrote. Move to Venezuela or Mexico, guns are illegal, and you will be much happier there.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

You stated and I copy paste here:

Accordingly, the risk of suicide and unintentional shootings among youth increases in homes where guns are kept loaded and/or unlocked.

That would be expected. If no firearm is present then how can one shoot themselves? I love statements like these.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> You should have stopped at "Ummm", the most intelligent thing you wrote. Move to Venezuela or Mexico, guns are illegal, and you will be much happier there.


Guns are illegal in Mexico? Someone call the cartel fast, they will want to know this. You know law abiding those guys are. If we tell them guns are illegal I'm positive they will obey all of Mexico's gun control laws.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Some idiots need to be reminded "don't run with scissors"



BlueNOX said:


> You stated and I copy paste here:
> 
> Accordingly, the risk of suicide and unintentional shootings among youth increases in homes where guns are kept loaded and/or unlocked.
> 
> ...


Democrats, like Mexicans-only obey laws they like.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Some idiots need to be reminded "don't run with scissors"


What about skipping. Skipping isn't running and I promise to not point them towards others. Wait, should I instead not point them at cats?

I'm so damn confused. Where the liberals with some scissor control laws



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Some idiots need to be reminded "don't run with scissors"
> 
> 
> Democrats, like Mexicans-only obey laws they like.


So do democrats obey or disobey gun control laws? Chicago is Democrat. Chicago has more shootings than any other city.

That's means democrats don't obey gun control laws because it's illegal to shoot people with guns unless it's in defense.

I don't think democrats like the laws they themselves pass.

Someone should tell them. Maybe they can pass knitting needle laws. Democrats hate to knit.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> What about skipping. Skipping isn't running and I promise to not point them towards others. Wait, should I instead not point them at cats?
> 
> I'm so damn confused. Where the liberals with some scissor control laws


They're too busy, trying to erase that "first amendment thingy"


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Bad people will find ways to do bad things.

Stupid people will do stupid things.

Irresponsible people will do irresponsible things.

Statistics are fun. We can twist almost anything to represent our own agendas.

https://www.madd.org/blog/stats/in-...290000-were-injured-in-drunk-driving-crashes/
Let's outlaw alcohol.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm
Let's outlaw smoking.

We should probably also outlaw vehicles, fast food restaurants, junk food, etc., etc. The availability of these things leads to many, many deaths each year.

Eventually, the planet will take care of the real problem, humanity. For such an "intelligent" species, we're ridiculously stupid and destructive.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

WAHN said:


> Bad people will find ways to do bad things.
> 
> Stupid people will do stupid things.
> 
> ...


We need to outlaw the internet. Do you realize how many people each year die with their smartphone connected to the internet. Imagine the lives we can save if we just turn off the internet.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

WAHN said:


> Bad people will find ways to do bad things.
> 
> Stupid people will do stupid things.
> 
> ...


Bad people are doing bad things to good people.
RISE UP, good people...STOP the bad people!

....I'm in.


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## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

oldfart said:


> That you think someone wants to do you harm tells me all I need to know about your fear.
> 
> Guns, hand guns in particular, are made for only one purpose and that is to kill. Generally speaking I think the motivation to carry is the high that comes with the thought that today might be the day that you kill someone....that or to compensate for a little pecker


You are wrong on all of your assumptions. I have been robbed at gunpoint over $500 at my insurance office. The same guy (which I provided a video of before) had no problem robbing other people and fighting with and attempting to kill the women he robbed. So to say that no one wants to do me harm is not accurate at all. I have never had the thought that today would be the day I kill someone. My thoughts regarding guns are more along the lines "I hope I never have to use it to defend myself, but I will if necessary". Not quite sure why some of you guys are so concerned with penis size. Projecting much?



oldfart said:


> I don't have any more data on this subject than you do, but I suspect most gun owners, even those with children, do not keep their guns the way they should
> 
> A whole 'nother thing are folks that are suicidal A gun in a home with a person like this is just asking for a tragedy


I personally keep my firearms in a quick release safe and I train and teach my kids gun safety on a regular basis.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Mikeoftulsa said:


> You are wrong on all of your assumptions. I have been robbed at gunpoint over $500 at my insurance office. The same guy (which I provided a video of before) had no problem robbing other people and fighting with and attempting to kill the women he robbed. So to say that no one wants to do me harm is not accurate at all. I have never had the thought that today would be the day I kill someone. My thoughts regarding guns are more along the lines "I hope I never have to use it to defend myself, but I will if necessary". Not quite sure why some of you guys are so concerned with penis size. Projecting much?
> 
> I personally keep my firearms in a quick release safe and I train and teach my kids gun safety on a regular basis.


They really like penis! ?


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Did you actually say that unless one belongs to a well regulated militia the 2nd Amendment does not give them the right to own guns? I want to make sure we are reading the same document. Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America is what I'm reading and I quote:
> *
> A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.*
> 
> ...


So the militia phrase is just a random thought?, stuck In the same sentence as the gun thing

It's not in there for nothing: Is it?


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

oldfart said:


> So the militia phrase is just a random thought?, stuck In the same sentence as the gun thing
> 
> It's not in there for nothing: Is it?


You don't have to wear Army Pants if you don't want to, fart. You can wear a skirt!


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

oldfart said:


> So the militia phrase is just a random thought?, stuck In the same sentence as the gun thing
> 
> It's not in there for nothing: Is it?


Nope, not random. Looks to me like it's simply stating why "the people" are given the right to own.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

dauction said:


> About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year- about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes.


So the solution is to make owning guns illegal. Typical punish the law abiding people for the actions of criminals.

How about having a penal system that truly punishes criminals instead of the revolving door of our prison system we have now? I bet the majority of those stolen guns are from criminals that have a long rap sheet of prior crimes. Slap on the wrist and back out to commit more crimes. With every slap on the wrist they realize being a criminal is not so bad and the start upping their game to more serious crimes. How about having a 3 felony strike and you get the death penalty? How about any violent crimes like rape, murder, sexual assault, you get zero strikes and the death penalty? Being a criminal should not be a career like it currently is from lack of a penal system.

Minor felonies 1st offense 1-3 year prison sentence, while in prison they need to pass a GED and learn a trade so they can have a chance at working when they get out of prison. Learning a trade and passing a GED comes with a cost that they will need to repay over time. 2nd time prison sentence 3-5 years of hard time, no luxuries, just the minimal requirements to survive. After time served re-pass the GED and re-certify for a trade. 3rd offense Death Penalty.

Sounds harsh? It should be. Criminals are treated too good in this country. There is no incentive to get out of the life of crime. After 3 offenses they made it clear they are career criminals and don't want to be part of a peaceful society.

Some of the worst dictators of the world had the doors open to them by disarming the people first.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> So the solution is to make owning guns illegal. Typical punish the law abiding people for the actions of criminals.
> 
> How about having a penal system that truly punishes criminals instead of the revolving door of our prison system we have now? I bet the majority of those stolen guns are from criminals that have a long rap sheet of prior crimes. Slap on the wrist and back out to commit more crimes. With every slap on the wrist they realize being a criminal is not so bad and the start upping their game to more serious crimes. How about having a 3 felony strike and you get the death penalty? How about any violent crimes like rape, murder, sexual assault, you get zero strikes and the death penalty? Being a criminal should not be a career like it currently is from lack of a penal system.
> 
> ...


Maybe a little harsh, but I generally agree....We are too easy on lifetime criminals....


----------



## mmn (Oct 23, 2015)

I wonder how much further we can wander off the trail...!


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> So the militia phrase is just a random thought?, stuck In the same sentence as the gun thing
> 
> It's not in there for nothing: Is it?


It states we have the right to form a militia, however it does not make the right to bear arms exclusive to a militia only. If it did the. It would say militias have the right to bear arms.

Are you this uneducated on our constitution?



mmn said:


> I wonder how much further we can wander off the trail...!


I'm sure we can evolve this thread to include cupcakes, global cooling and how the armadillo survives Armageddon on twinkies if you like.



justaGoober said:


> Maybe a little harsh, but I generally agree....We are too easy on lifetime criminals....


Not harsh.

I for one approve of trading criminals for citizenship. Here's how it would work.

We issue each convict a pink t-shirt and a pair of tighty pinkies and take them to the border along with $500 cash for each. Cross the border and your free. Don't cross and we shoot you. Of course, we can fight drugs with this too. Just let the cartel know their coming.

In exchange for each criminal
We export we grant citizenship to an honest individual trying to immigrate.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> So the solution is to make owning guns illegal. Typical punish the law abiding people for the actions of criminals.
> 
> How about having a penal system that truly punishes criminals instead of the revolving door of our prison system we have now? I bet the majority of those stolen guns are from criminals that have a long rap sheet of prior crimes. Slap on the wrist and back out to commit more crimes. With every slap on the wrist they realize being a criminal is not so bad and the start upping their game to more serious crimes. How about having a 3 felony strike and you get the death penalty? How about any violent crimes like rape, murder, sexual assault, you get zero strikes and the death penalty? Being a criminal should not be a career like it currently is from lack of a penal system.
> 
> ...


Precisely. Criminals do not obey laws.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

WAHN said:


> Nope, not random. Looks to me like it's simply stating why "the people" are given the right to own.


 Exactly right.
And now that we maintain a standing army rather than local malitias, there is no need for individual "people" to bear arms

Also, since we are a government of "the people" for "the people" and by "the people" it can be argued that "the people" is the people collectively, not individually and "the people", through the military, do bear arms.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Exactly right.
> And now that we maintain a standing army rather than local malitias, there is no need for individual "people" to bear arms
> 
> Also, since we are a government of "the people" for "the people" and by "the people" it can be argued that "the people" is the people collectively, not individually and "the people", through the military, do bear arms.


Where in the hell do you come up with this train of thought.

The purpose of the Second Amendment is the Declaration of Independence. England had become a dictator to the colonies. In order to gain their freedoms the people had to rise up against the govt at that time. To ensure that we do not end up with another tyrant like Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi the people have the right to bear arms.

An armed citizen is a sign to the gov't that we will not tolerate repeating that history.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Exactly right.
> And now that we maintain a standing army rather than local malitias, there is no need for individual "people" to bear arms
> 
> Also, since we are a government of "the people" for "the people" and by "the people" it can be argued that "the people" is the people collectively, not individually and "the people", through the military, do bear arms.


We The People bear arms.
Learn to love it.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

dauction said:


> Because you are afraid.. you are gambling and the odds are MORE Likely that your Gun will be stolen , or used domestic violence or kids, grand kids will be hurt or killed than the odds of you ever "not going home" ...
> 
> And where do your guns go when you die? Who is the responsible person that gets them ? Or will one of your nutso relative s(we all have them" help themselves....
> 
> Again ..the Bottom line is you are AFRAID of life , you are afraid of living ..you live in a paranoid state ...and nothing healthy about that at all


The CDC reported 500,000 - 3,000,000 defebsice use of a fire arm a year. How many kids were killed by a fire arm last year?

And many defensive use is not reported. While I debated the OP on the merits of his brandishing of a fire arm, theres always a chance that this guy did have nefarious intent and his brandishing did cause the would be attacker to say "never mind" thus a fire arm was successfully used in self defense in preventing a crime to occur. It was never reported outside of this forum thus cannot be tallied up into any statistic.



oldfart said:


> Exactly right.
> And now that we maintain a standing army rather than local malitias, there is no need for individual "people" to bear arms
> 
> Also, since we are a government of "the people" for "the people" and by "the people" it can be argued that "the people" is the people collectively, not individually and "the people", through the military, do bear arms.


You can't make up words to the constitution without a constitutional convention. Good luck!


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> It states we have the right to form a militia, however it does not make the right to bear arms exclusive to a militia only. If it did the. It would say militias have the right to bear arms.
> 
> Are you this uneducated on our constitution?


No I'm not uneducated on our constitution. And I keep a copy on the table next to my lazy-boy.

Perhaps you should read the 2nd amendment again. It says the people have the "right" to bear arms. It dosent say "the people" have the right to form a malitia, it says a militia is necessary. And since these two thoughts are separated by a comma, I would argue they are two parts of the same thought

The way I read it is that the "right" to bear arms is dependent on the "need" for a militia. And since we don't need a militia anymore we don't have a right to bear arms


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Where in the hell do you come up with this train of thought.
> 
> The purpose of the Second Amendment is the Declaration of Independence. England had become a dictator to the colonies. In order to gain their freedoms the people had to rise up against the govt at that time. To ensure that we do not end up with another tyrant like Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi the people have the right to bear arms.
> 
> An armed citizen is a sign to the gov't that we will not tolerate repeating that history.


What should be the limit as to what "arms" the citizenry should have? Back in the day, citizens had essentially the same "arms" as the government - technology was very limited. Not so much now. Should "responsible" citizens be able to own an F15? Tank? How about hand grenades? Would you be ok with George Soros and his crew owning these? I doubt it. Without those type weapons, I have no idea how you will "take on" the government. See the problem with the 2nd Amendment as it's currently written? Define "arms".

The SCOTUS has yet to take up this issue....It will be interesting if/when they do.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

oldfart said:


> No I'm not uneducated on our constitution. And I keep a copy on the table next to my lazy-boy.
> 
> Perhaps you should read the 2nd amendment again. It says the people have the "right" to bear arms. It dosent say "the people" have the right to form a malitia, it says a militia is necessary. And since these two thoughts are separated by a comma, I would argue they are two parts of the same thought
> 
> The way I read it is that the "right" to bear arms is dependent on the "need" for a militia. And since we don't need a militia anymore we don't have a right to bear arms


Oooh.
A comma.
Bwaaahahahaha.
You're funny!
???



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Oooh.
> A comma.
> Bwaaahahahaha.
> You're funny!
> ???


Curious to see if that spellng notzee cums ND kurectz yrr splling


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

oldfart said:


> Exactly right.
> And now that we maintain a standing army rather than local malitias, there is no need for individual "people" to bear arms
> 
> Also, since we are a government of "the people" for "the people" and by "the people" it can be argued that "the people" is the people collectively, not individually and "the people", through the military, do bear arms.


Perhaps not technically a need, but still a right.

You can argue whatever you wish. Just like statistics, we all love to argue that our interpretations of things are the correct interpretations. I don't see wording that specifies only militia can own, so I don't attempt to interpret something that is not specifically stated.

I'm not interested in becoming an expert on this crap in an attempt to "win" an internet debate, but I do believe that militias still exist, although not necessarily in the same form that they did 250 years ago.



oldfart said:


> No I'm not uneducated on our constitution. And I keep a copy on the table next to my lazy-boy.
> 
> Perhaps you should read the 2nd amendment again. It says the people have the "right" to bear arms. It dosent say "the people" have the right to form a malitia, it says a militia is necessary. And since these two thoughts are separated by a comma, I would argue they are two parts of the same thought
> 
> The way I read it is that the "right" to bear arms is dependent on the "need" for a militia. And since we don't need a militia anymore we don't have a right to bear arms


I read/interpret it differently. Your interpretation removes a right that was given, while mine leaves that right untouched.

Personally, I don't have issues with relatively strict laws on gun ownership. Many of my beliefs would probably rub the diehard gun owners the wrong way.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

WAHN said:


> Perhaps not technically a need, but still a right.
> 
> You can argue whatever you wish. Just like statistics, we all love to argue that our interpretations of things are the correct interpretations. I don't see wording that specifies only militia can own, so I don't attempt to interpret something that is not specifically stated.
> 
> ...


Evil, bad and stupid " , " Took your right to bear arms away!


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> What should be the limit as to what "arms" the citizenry should have? Back in the day, citizens had essentially the same "arms" as the government - technology was very limited. Not so much now. Should "responsible" citizens be able to own an F15? Tank? How about hand grenades? Would you be ok with George Soros and his crew owning these? I doubt it. Without those type weapons, I have no idea how you will "take on" the government. See the problem with the 2nd Amendment as it's currently written? Define "arms".
> 
> The SCOTUS has yet to take up this issue....It will be interesting if/when they do.


That would be interesting. It'll probably happen someday.

That might be when things get amended to allowing arms that apply more realistically to everyday potential property/personal safety protection.

Lots of old/outdated laws still on the books.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> No I'm not uneducated on our constitution. And I keep a copy on the table next to my lazy-boy.
> 
> Perhaps you should read the 2nd amendment again. It says the people have the "right" to bear arms. It dosent say "the people" have the right to form a malitia, it says a militia is necessary. And since these two thoughts are separated by a comma, I would argue they are two parts of the same thought
> 
> The way I read it is that the "right" to bear arms is dependent on the "need" for a militia. And since we don't need a militia anymore we don't have a right to bear arms


Wheee do you get we don't need a militia? A militia is not an army controlled by the gov't. It's a militia made up of the citizens in the event the gov't begins to abuse its powers and infringe upon the rights of the citizens.

Do you trust our leaders? Trump? Pelosi? I can keep going naming them if you like. I didn't even trust Obama.

You liberals crack me up. You say Trump is a facist who should be impeached while saying we should all be forced to turn in our guns.



WAHN said:


> That would be interesting. It'll probably happen someday.
> 
> That might be when things get amended to allowing arms that apply more realistically to everyday potential property/personal safety protection.
> 
> Lots of old/outdated laws still on the books.


It's already been done.

Citizens can not own fully automatic (assault) weapons.

The bump stock which allows a semi-automatic weapon to fire faster is no longer allowed.

Grenades are not allowed.

Rockets are not allowed.

A citizen can own a tank but can not own one that is capable of firing.

A citizen can not own an aircraft carrier

Nuclear bombs are not allowed.

The day can a long time ago. Not saying we should own these things. I'd hate to have to clean an aircraft carrier.


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Wheee do you get we don't need a militia? A militia is not an army controlled by the gov't. It's a militia made up of the citizens in the event the gov't begins to abuse its powers and infringe upon the rights of the citizens.
> 
> Do you trust our leaders? Trump? Pelosi? I can keep going naming them if you like. I didn't even trust Obama.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by "It's already been done."?? Is it spelled out in the Constitution? No

A mish mash of state laws dictate the firepower that can be owned by private citizens. If AZ passed a law saying you can only own a small hand gun for personal protection, would you be good with that? I highly doubt it.....You would be screaming, "It's my constitutional right to own a....".

Why isn't it your constitutional right to own a fully automatic weapon?

Don't you need a fully automatic weapon (along with much more firepower) to take on a tyrannical gov't? If you say "No", then you really aren't serious about standing up to a tyrannical government...

The days of muskets and the like taking on the government long gone....

Again, the SCOTUS needs to weigh in on this....Too much grey area...


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> What do you mean by "It's already been done."?? Is it spelled out in the Constitution? No
> 
> A mish mash of state laws dictate the firepower that can be owned by private citizens. If AZ passed a law saying you can only own a small hand gun for personal protection, would you be good with that? I highly doubt it.....You would be screaming, "It's my constitutional right to own a....".
> 
> ...


Actually all the things I listed are banned by FEDERAL LAW. Automatic weapons ban, bumpstocks, nuclear, tanks, aircraft carriers.

States like to try and ban things like silencers which exist to ensure we don't disturb our neighbors as we shoot an intruder. Or the number of weapons one can be in a specified time frame. That's a mishmash.

AZ no limit. 
New York 1 handgun and 1 rifle every 90 days and they have to verify before they sell. Now how in the hell am I gonna do a New York reload if I have to wait 90 days between purchases?

And while the XD is my carry weapon. A Colt AR 4 is home defense. Next you'll tell me I don't need that right.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Actually all the things I listed are banned by FEDERAL LAW. Automatic weapons ban, bumpstocks, nuclear, tanks, aircraft carriers.
> 
> States like to try and ban things like silencers which exist to ensure we don't disturb our neighbors as we shoot an intruder. Or the number of weapons one can be in a specified time frame. That's a mishmash.
> 
> ...


Again, if a federal/state law was passed saying you could only have small hand guns, nothing more, how would you react? You would scream about the constitution and your 2nd amendment protections. Why does that same protection not apply to fully automatic weapons? The 2nd Amendment is silent on what exactly "arms" are.

As I asked in my previous post, are you going to fight against a tyrannical government with what is legal today?


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

justaGoober said:


> Again, if a federal/state law was passed saying you could only have small hand guns, nothing more, how would you react? You would scream about the constitution and your 2nd amendment protections. Why does that same protection not apply to fully automatic weapons? The 2nd Amendment is silent on what exactly "arms" are.
> 
> As I asked in my previous post, are you going to fight against a tyrannical government with what is legal today?


It does belong to fully automatic weapons and there are several groups of gun nuts as you call them trying to get it overturned. The problem is the media is biased and won't cover it, the SCOTUS won't allow it to come up for review because they know they would have to over turn it, and the gun nuts as you call them are proceeding in a legal non violent way to get it overturned. Unlike many on the left side that preach peace and love but use violence to force their opinion down others throats.

The 2nd is not silent on what arms are, it means all arms, not limited arms, not muskets, not single shot bolt rifles. All Arms.

If I have to fight against a tyrannical government with what I have you bet I will, but it should never come to that. I will continue supporting the people that are fighting it in a peaceful way through the court systems.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

oldfart said:


> So the militia phrase is just a random thought?, stuck In the same sentence as the gun thing
> 
> It's not in there for nothing: Is it?


The first half is a statement, a statement that makes the second half make sense.

Think of it this way


oldfart said:


> No I'm not uneducated on our constitution. And I keep a copy on the table next to my lazy-boy.
> 
> Perhaps you should read the 2nd amendment again. It says the people have the "right" to bear arms. It dosent say "the people" have the right to form a malitia, it says a militia is necessary. And since these two thoughts are separated by a comma, I would argue they are two parts of the same thought
> 
> The way I read it is that the "right" to bear arms is dependent on the "need" for a militia. And since we don't need a militia anymore we don't have a right to bear arms


It does not depend on the need for a militia.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> It does belong to fully automatic weapons and there are several groups of gun nuts as you call them trying to get it overturned. The problem is the media is biased and won't cover it, the SCOTUS won't allow it to come up for review because they know they would have to over turn it, and the gun nuts as you call them are proceeding in a legal non violent way to get it overturned. Unlike many on the left side that preach peace and love but use violence to force their opinion down others throats.
> 
> The 2nd is not silent on what arms are, it means all arms, not limited arms, not muskets, not single shot bolt rifles. All Arms.
> 
> If I have to fight against a tyrannical government with what I have you bet I will, but it should never come to that. I will continue supporting the people that are fighting it in a peaceful way through the court systems.


Please show me where I called anyone a "gun nut".

"The 2nd is not silent on what arms are,* it means all arms, *not limited arms, not muskets, not single shot bolt rifles. All Arms."

So this includes fully automatics, RPG's, F15's, etc.? If not, please tell me why not. Where is the line? What is your definition of "arms"? If you believe there is no limit, you're not a "gun nut", but complete nut.

Can't wait for that ruling from the SCOTUS


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

FLKeys said:


> It does belong to fully automatic weapons and there are several groups of gun nuts as you call them trying to get it overturned. The problem is the media is biased and won't cover it, the SCOTUS won't allow it to come up for review because they know they would have to over turn it, and the gun nuts as you call them are proceeding in a legal non violent way to get it overturned. Unlike many on the left side that preach peace and love but use violence to force their opinion down others throats.
> 
> The 2nd is not silent on what arms are, it means all arms, not limited arms, not muskets, not single shot bolt rifles. All Arms.
> 
> If I have to fight against a tyrannical government with what I have you bet I will, but it should never come to that. I will continue supporting the people that are fighting it in a peaceful way through the court systems.


I believe it should be all arms as well. If you can afford to buy an F22, you should allowed to own one. Not being sarcastic either. Its wont be individual arms that would win against tyranny, it would be overwhelming numbers. If a bunch of goat hearders in Afghanistan can hold up against the military, Americans will be able to hold our own. It'll be unlikely that a scortched earth policy would be used on American citizens, push come to shove. I also knew many from my old unit that said if given the order to attack American citizens, theyd refuse or target the generals/colonels to cut the head off the snake right off the bat.



justaGoober said:


> Please show me where I called anyone a "gun nut".
> 
> "The 2nd is not silent on what arms are,* it means all arms, *not limited arms, not muskets, not single shot bolt rifles. All Arms."
> 
> ...


There is no line.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

steveK2016 said:


> I believe it should be all arms as well. If you can afford to buy an F22, you should allowed to own one. Not being sarcastic either. Its wont be individual arms that would win against tyranny, it would be overwhelming numbers. If a bunch of goat hearders in Afghanistan can hold up against the military, Americans will be able to hold our own. It'll be unlikely that a scortched earth policy would be used on American citizens, push come to shove. I also knew many from my old unit that said if given the order to attack American citizens, theyd refuse or target the generals/colonels to cut the head off the snake right off the bat.
> 
> 
> There is no line.


I am really surprised by this response....So when George Soros buys and gives away 1,000's of fully automatic weapons, RPG's, etc., and hands them out to citizens that are part of ANTIFA , you're good with that?

Remember, access to weapons is not limited to people that think like you....


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

WAHN said:


> Perhaps not technically a need, but still a right.
> 
> You can argue whatever you wish. Just like statistics, we all love to argue that our interpretations of things are the correct interpretations. I don't see wording that specifies only militia can own, so I don't attempt to interpret something that is not specifically stated.
> 
> ...


Im not saying my interpretation is correct, only that its mine.. and until Heller, it was the supreme court's. Another court could come to another intreptation


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> I am really surprised by this response....So when George Soros buys and gives away 1,000's of fully automatic weapons, RPG's, etc., and hands them out to citizens that are part of ANTIFA , you're good with that?
> 
> Remember, access to weapons is not limited to people that think like you....


Yes because when the Koch Brothers do the same but to 10,000 conservatives who doesn't piss their pants at the sight of a gun and knows how to use one, Im not worried. I'll happy accept my free M249, SMAW-D and stand by with my Go-Bag. Will Level IV plates and soft armor also be issued?

An armed conservative will outshot an armed liberal 9 times out of 10. That is if the liberal knows what direction to put the magazine in...


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> The first half is a statement, a statement that makes the second half make sense.
> 
> Think of it this way
> 
> It does not depend on the need for a militia.


I think that you are right and said it much better than i did.

The first half is a statement, a statement that makes the second half make sense.

without the first half, the second half makes no sense... so the right to bear arms made sense in the days of State and local militias. Now it dosent


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

oldfart said:


> I think that you are right and said it much better than i did.
> 
> The first half is a statement, a statement that makes the second half make sense.
> 
> without the first half, the second half makes no sense... so the right to bear arms made sense in the days of State and local militias. Now it dosent


We still have militias. Still makes perfect sense.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> Wow...more ignorance. This time about "Mosloms" (I assume he means Muslims).
> 
> So I guess if your wife was carrying, the lady trying to do a good deed with the keys would be dead now?
> 
> I have no problems with carrying. But unfortunately, for the folks that carry for the right reasons and are of sound mind, many vocal supporters don't seem very stable and do a serious disservice to those that carry.


 Don't assume anything. I purposely spell moslom like this. I am not about to give them one inch of respect.

Again, don't assume that I do a disservice to those of us that carry. How does it feel to have a name like JustaGoober?



Christinebitg said:


> It sounds to me like your wife has bought into some hysteria about muslims.
> 
> Being terrified of a woman who walks up to you in a parking garage seems like a very big over-reaction.
> 
> ...


No one said anything a moslom in my garage.

You can't see what they are trying to do to our country? Don't tell me you are a justagoober also.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

steveK2016 said:


> Yes because when the Koch Brothers do the same but to 10,000 conservatives who doesn't piss their pants at the sight of a gun and knows how to use one, Im not worried. I'll happy accept my free M249, SMAW-D and stand by with my Go-Bag. Will Level IV plates and soft armor also be issued?
> 
> An armed conservative will outshot an armed liberal 9 times out of 10. That is if the liberal knows what direction to put the magazine in...


Sounds like a fun video game...SMH



wn100804 said:


> Don't assume anything. I purposely spell moslom like this. I am not about to give them one inch of respect.
> 
> Again, don't assume that I do a disservice to those of us that carry. How does it feel to have a name like JustaGoober?
> 
> ...


LOL!....It's a pretty appropriate name for me...



wn100804 said:


> Again, don't assume that I do a disservice to those of us that carry.


I'm not assuming that....it's glaringly obvious.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Sounds like a fun video game...SMH
> 
> 
> LOL!....It's a pretty appropriate name for me...
> ...


I'm sure all the people killed by their own government wished it was just a video game... Or lived long enough to know what a video game is.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

steveK2016 said:


> Yes because when the Koch Brothers do the same but to 10,000 conservatives who doesn't piss their pants at the sight of a gun and knows how to use one, Im not worried. I'll happy accept my free M249, SMAW-D and stand by with my Go-Bag. Will Level IV plates and soft armor also be issued?
> 
> An armed conservative will outshot an armed liberal 9 times out of 10. That is if the liberal knows what direction to put the magazine in...


It's no surprise that when people have no logical response, they resort to "liberals suck", "conservatives suck", or some other personal attack.


----------



## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Violent crime is inversely proportions to legal gun ownership. Only morons argue this fact.
> 
> 
> Inversely proportional


Only morons insult people with math theorems, and then have to correct themselves.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

ZenUber said:


> Only morons insult people with math theorems, and then have to correct themselves.


The spelling 50 is back. Hi occifer. How our eww dewing?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> The spelling 50 is back. Hi occifer. How our eww dewing?


Spelczech krunt!
HE HAZZ ARRIVED!
Baaahajshaaa!
?????



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Spelczech krunt!
> HE HAZZ ARRIVED!
> Baaahajshaaa!
> ?????


Not very zen...
He's more like UberMoslem.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> It's no surprise that when people have no logical response, they resort to "liberals suck", "conservatives suck", or some other personal attack.


I'm not just saying liberals suck, its not a personal attack. Its common sense. Liberals hate guns. Many refuse to own or touch one. Conservstives tend to like guns, own guns and enjoy shooting them. Its only common sense that if a war between a group of individuals who have a lack of fire arm familiarity and comfort will get overwhelmed by a group of individuals who have been shooting all their lives.

Thats like saying that its illogic to assume that professional NFL football players would crush middle schoolers, that never touched a football before, at the game of football.

If You were to put money on who would win in a gun fight, one on one, @oldfart or @BlueNOX you know youd put your money on @BlueNOX


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

steveK2016 said:


> I'm not just saying liberals suck, its not a personal attack. Its common sense. Liberals hate guns. Many refuse to own or touch one. Conservstives tend to like guns, own guns and enjoy shooting them. Its only common sense that if a war between a group of individuals who have a lack of fire arm familiarity and comfort will get overwhelmed by a group of individuals who have been shooting all their lives.
> 
> Thats like saying that its illogic to assume that professional NFL football players would crush middle schoolers, that never touched a football before, at the game of football.
> 
> If You were to put money on who would win in a gun fight, one on one, @oldfart or @BlueNOX you know youd put your money on @BlueNOX


So it boils down to @BlueNOX vs @oldfart in a gun fight...Lol...or us vs them. That really has nothing to do with what we're talking about, but it shows your mindset.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> So it boils down to @BlueNOX vs @oldfart in a gun fight...Lol...or us vs them. That really has nothing to do with what we're talking about, but it shows your mindset.


It has everything to do with the conversation asked how I felt if George Soros gave 1000 antifa members automatic weapons and RPGs. I said id be fine with that because Koch brothers would do the same and if it came down between Soros backed Antifa liberals and Koch brothers backed Conservatives in a fire fight, I'd bet my yearly paycheck on the Conservatives winning 9 times out of 10.

And @oldfart and his fear of guns compared to @BlueNOX who probably practiced shooting at the range not too long ago, I bet @BlueNOX would hit @oldfart before he could try to timidly pull the trigger with his eyes closed and piss dripping down his leg.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> So it boils down to @BlueNOX vs @oldfart in a gun fight...Lol...or us vs them. That really has nothing to do with what we're talking about, but it shows your mindset.


Umm actually, if it comes down to @oldfart vs @BlueNOX it would be a draw. He's to scared to touch a gun and I took an oath to defend the people of this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. Since he's to scared of them I could never shoot an unarmed citizen of this country that I took a sacred oath to protect.

Straight up, that is the view of all conservative gun owners of this great country I believe. Now, if he did actually pick it up and point it at me he'd drop before he could figure out the safety was on.

Sorry oldfart, but I does gots to protect myself if ya point that thing.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

steveK2016 said:


> It has everything to do with the conversation asked how I felt if George Soros gave 1000 antifa members automatic weapons and RPGs. I said id be fine with that because Koch brothers would do the same and if it came down between Soros backed Antifa liberals and Koch brothers backed Conservatives in a fire fight, I'd bet my yearly paycheck on the Conservatives winning 9 times out of 10.
> 
> And @oldfart and his fear of guns compared to @BlueNOX who probably practiced shooting at the range not too long ago, I bet @BlueNOX would hit @oldfart before he could try to timidly pull the trigger with his eyes closed and piss dripping down his leg.


George Soros was just an example of someone you despise (as do I) getting arms. I never said they would "win" a civil war against you and your buddies. I can't believe you went that far with it - then proposed a gunfight between @oldfart and @BlueNOX. It's really sad that you took it that far. Who cares who "wins". Nobody wins in a civil war. Who wants a civil war? Sounds like you might.

Remember, you said no limit - all arms are protected by the 2nd Amendment. Let's change it up and say that the Aryan Brotherhood, Neo Nazi's, and White Supremecist have a rich benefactor that purchases 1,000's of RPG's tanks, fully automatic rifles, etc. and distributes them to members of those groups. Still no problem? Will you and @BlueNOX take them all out too?

Get serious....do you really believe that citizens should have access to the same arms the military has?

@BlueNOX - do you believe that? Don't be afraid to disagree with your buddy.

I'm curious what others that are reading this believe. Do you believe ALL arms (RPG's, tanks, etc.) are protected by the 2nd Amendment? It's a simple yes/no question. Thanks...


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

National Socialists?


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Expect the bump stock to be legal in about a year again.


Dont hold your breath. 
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/bump-stocks-ban-supreme-court-thomas-gorsuch.html


dauction said:


> btw unless you belong to a well regulated militia the 2nd amendment dosent even give the right to own a gun


Not according to SCOTUS



oldfart said:


> it can be argued that "the people" is the people collectively,


Yes it can be argued, in fact it was argued at the highest court. That argument lost to common sense.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Oooh.
> A comma.
> Bwaaahahahaha.
> You're funny!


Don't laugh at the commas in the 2nd amendment, they saved us.












steveK2016 said:


> Koch brothers backed Conservatives


Now they back Democrats 
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...ly-back-democrats-pushing-amnesty-free-trade/


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

oldfart said:


> So the militia phrase is just a random thought?, stuck In the same sentence as the gun thing
> 
> It's not in there for nothing: Is it?


My answer to that is as follows:

At the time the Constitution and Bill of Rights were adopted, it was well understood that the U.S. Army and Navy could have as many guns and as much firepower as they wanted and could afford.

If the Second Amendment had been only intended to apply to organized military forces, it would not have been necessary to put in such an amendment at all.

Some militias, on the other hand, were pulled together hastily in response to a threat. For them to be effective, arms must be privately held by a lot of people.



BlueNOX said:


> Here's how it would work.
> 
> We issue each convict a pink t-shirt and a pair of tighty pinkies and take them to the border along with $500 cash for each. Cross the border and your free. Don't cross and we shoot you.


Umm, no.

Let's suppose we take those people to the border with Mexico or Canada. Since most of those people are American citizens, Mexico and Canada would refuse to allow them in. Remember, they're convicted felons.

There are no other land boundaries in the U.S.

And while we're at it, the Constitution has a provision in it about "cruel and unusual punishment."


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> George Soros was just an example of someone you despise (as do I) getting arms. I never said they would "win" a civil war against you and your buddies. I can't believe you went that far with it - then proposed a gunfight between @oldfart and @BlueNOX. It's really sad that you took it that far. Who cares who "wins". Nobody wins in a civil war. Who wants a civil war? Sounds like you might.
> 
> Remember, you said no limit - all arms are protected by the 2nd Amendment. Let's change it up and say that the Aryan Brotherhood, Neo Nazi's, and White Supremecist have a rich benefactor that purchases 1,000's of RPG's tanks, fully automatic rifles, etc. and distributes them to members of those groups. Still no problem? Will you and @BlueNOX take them all out too?
> 
> ...


So the North didnt win the American Civil War?

Still no problem. Theres Still 365 million more Americans that'll outnumber 1000 neo Nazis.

There Will always be more normal Americans then any radical, fringe group like Neo Nazis and White Supremist. Get off of Vox.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

1. With a little tooling I and most gun aficionados can convert any


Christinebitg said:


> My answer to that is as follows:
> 
> At the time the Constitution and Bill of Rights were adopted, it was well understood that the U.S. Army and Navy could have as many guns and as much firepower as they wanted and could afford.
> 
> ...


It's a choice. Not punishment.

It's exporting in exchange of twist they import. We could call it a tariff. The $500 is foreign aid not a bribe intended to be stolen by the cartels. Besides, we have 4 borders not 2. Who says they can't walk/swim across the other 2?

Let me guess, the pink undies is the cruel and unusual part.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Bbonez said:


> Dont hold your breath.
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/bump-stocks-ban-supreme-court-thomas-gorsuch.html
> Not according to SCOTUS
> 
> ...


Wow. Thank you, didn't know this.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> So the North didnt win the American Civil War?
> 
> Still no problem. Theres Still 365 million more Americans that'll outnumber 1000 neo Nazis.
> 
> There Will always be more normal Americans then any radical, fringe group like Neo Nazis and White Supremist. Get off of Vox.





Bbonez said:


> Dont hold your breath.
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/bump-stocks-ban-supreme-court-thomas-gorsuch.html
> Not according to SCOTUS
> 
> ...


Yes it was argued before the court and the court decided. Until that decision however, the court had decided differently.

It's much like the abortion issue, the court took one position with Roe. But that hasent stopped a group that disagrees, from questioning that decision and asking the court to make a change


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

oldfart said:


> It's much like the abortion issue, the court took one position with Roe. But that hasent stopped a group that disagrees, from questioning that decision and asking the court to make a change


Roe would be like Heller IF the 2nd Amendment said "Politically Correct Snowflakes, being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to kill babies, shall not be infringed."


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Yes it was argued before the court and the court decided. Until that decision however, the court had decided differently.
> 
> It's much like the abortion issue, the court took one position with Roe. But that hasent stopped a group that disagrees, from questioning that decision and asking the court to make a change


Help me out here, maybe I'm missing it. I don't see where the court refused to hear the case or decided it yet. Only that they refuse to lift the ban at this time. No mention beyond that.

I do realize this statement by court gives little chance they will overturn the lower courts upon hearing arguments.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Bbonez said:


> Roe would be like Heller IF the 2nd Amendment said "Politically Correct Snowflakes, being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to kill babies, shall not be infringed."


You make my point. The court has decided both issues. And with both issues there is part of the population that considers it settled law and another part of the population that sees things differently


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Yes it was argued before the court and the court decided. Until that decision however, the court had decided differently.
> 
> It's much like the abortion issue, the court took one position with Roe. But that hasent stopped a group that disagrees, from questioning that decision and asking the court to make a change


Abortion isnt a right explicitly written in the constitution as being uninfringable.


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> I'm curious what others that are reading this believe. Do you believe ALL arms (RPG's, tanks, etc.) are protected by the 2nd Amendment? It's a simple yes/no question. Thanks..


Nope.

However, it would be interesting to sort the nuclear missiles section of Cabela's by price, rating, etc.

Or perusing the bomb section on eBay. I guess that would be one way to hurt sales on the dark web.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> It's a choice. Not punishment


It's not a choice if they aren't allowed into the other country.

Citizenship means something. You can't deport a person who has no other citizenship. There's no place to send them TO.

Would you be in favor of other countries deporting their criminals to us ??


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

WAHN said:


> Nope.
> 
> However, it would be interesting to sort the nuclear missiles section of Cabela's by price, rating, etc.
> 
> Or perusing the bomb section on eBay. I guess that would be one way to hurt sales on the dark web.


It really is mind boggling that some think otherwise....


----------



## OtherUbersdo (May 17, 2018)

You didn't like the look of some guy so you flashed a gun at him ? While you may feel safe carrying a gun I guarantee no one else around you feels safer seeing someone with a gun .


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

OtherUbersdo said:


> I guarantee no one else around you feels safer seeing someone with a gun .


That's a bold guarantee. I feel safer when I see people open carry.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> It's not a choice if they aren't allowed into the other country.
> 
> Citizenship means something. You can't deport a person who has no other citizenship. There's no place to send them TO.
> 
> Would you be in favor of other countries deporting their criminals to us ??


England did it. Where do you think Australia came from.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> England did it. Where do you think Australia came from.


You can NOT currently do it.

And just as an FYI, Australia was a colony of theirs at the time.

Do you think it would be acceptable for other countries to send us their criminals? How about if the Netherlands loaded their criminals into boats and sent them all to America? Do you think that would acceptable behaviour from an international standpoint?


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift
Cuba sent us their criminals and mental patients.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> You can NOT currently do it.
> 
> And just as an FYI, Australia was a colony of theirs at the time.
> 
> Do you think it would be acceptable for other countries to send us their criminals? How about if the Netherlands loaded their criminals into boats and sent them all to America? Do you think that would acceptable behaviour from an international standpoint?


Well, maybe it would make criminals think twice. If they new they would be deported and no country would let them in so they would be forced to spend there days standing on a line that if they ventured towards either side of they'd be shot.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> LOL!....It's a pretty appropriate name for me...
> 
> 
> I'm not assuming that....it's glaringly obvious.


----------



## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Do you think it would be acceptable for other countries to send us their criminals?


They are. It's not acceptable. 
https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...exas-border-with-molotov-cocktail-say-police/


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Bbonez said:


> They are. It's not acceptable.
> https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...exas-border-with-molotov-cocktail-say-police/


He should be charged with smuggling a weapon of mass destruction across the border. That weapon could of been used to burn millions of acres and kill countless people in its wake. In addition it would of provided a chaotic scene that others might have tried to cross the border near endangering them also.

This really should be seen as an attempted terror attack to both the United States and Mexico as the fire could of crossed the border there making it even harder to fight internationally.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Well, maybe it would make criminals think twice. If they new they would be deported and no country would let them in so they would be forced to spend there days standing on a line that if they ventured towards either side of they'd be shot.


Well, maybe you're just having a very weird fantasy.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


Then we would thank the good Lord that they were comparing sidearms and not "guns".


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Uber Drivers and Guns...

Uber Driver shoots passenger for Vomiting..

*Prosecutors: "Large amount of vomit" led Uber driver to kill passenger*
LBUQUERQUE, NM - A ride-hailing driver shot and killed a New Mexico passenger earlier this year during an argument over "a large amount of vomit" in his Uber vehicle, prosecutors said in new documents.

Court documents submitted by the Bernalillo County district attorney last week said the vomit and an argument over a cleanup fee led to the shooting, the Albuquerque Journal reported.

Police say driver Clayton Benedict fatally shot passenger James Porter, 27, after stopping along a highway in Albuquerque on March 17. Benedict has not been charged and has declined to comment.

A charging decision may come in the next few weeks, district attorney spokesman Michael Patrick said.

"Prosecutors are currently going over hundreds of documents and videos," Patrick said.

Benedict picked up Porter and his friend from a bar on the evening of St. Patrick's Day, according to a search warrant affidavit seeking details from Uber about Benedict's trips and other information.

The friend, Jonathan Reyes, later told police the two had been at the bar since 2 p.m. and although he typically doesn't drink, he had six or seven drinks that day.

Benedict - who had been driving for Uber for a year and a half - told detectives they were traveling south on Interstate 25 when Reyes threw up in the backseat.

"At this point, the other passenger and Clayton start to go back and forth about a potential 'clean-up fee,'" the detective wrote in the affidavit. "James is the male arguing/pleading with Clayton not to charge him for a 'clean-up fee.'"

That's when Benedict said he pulled over and asked the men to get out of the car. He said he ended the ride and gave Porter a review of "one star." He said Porter slammed the door and the two argued outside the car.

Benedict said Porter was yelling and moved toward the open driver's side door, threatening to run Benedict over with his own car. Benedict said he fired "an unknown amount of rounds" toward Porter.

Porter's family sued Uber and Benedict last month. The San Francisco-based Uber told the newspaper in a statement that Benedict no longer has access to the Uber app as a driver.

*Judge rules there's enough evidence to move forward with Uber driver first-degree murder trial*
DENVER - The judge in the case of an Uber driver who is accused of shooting and killing a passenger during an in-app ride ruled Friday that there is enough evidence in the case to move forward with a first-degree murder trial.

Michael Hancock, 29, is accused of shooting his passenger, 45-year-old Hyun Kim, just before 3 a.m. June 1 on Interstate 25 near the University Boulevard exit. The suspect is not related to Denver Mayor Michael Hancock, his office confirmed.

Hancock's defense team argued he fired shots after Kim attacked him. Kim's blood alcohol was nearly four times the legal limit of alcohol intoxication for driving.

The judge ruled because Hancock fired 10 shots outside the car into the car, and because of the location of the bullet wounds on Kim's body, there is enough evidence to move forward with the case.

*Michigan Uber driver Jason Dalton pleads guilty in Kalamazoo shooting spree that killed 6*

The Uber driver charged with killing six people and seriously wounding two more in a shooting spree around Kalamazoo, Michigan, in 2016 pleaded guilty Monday to all counts against him.

Jason Dalton halted jury selection in his trial with surprise guilty pleas to six counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder and eight counts of felony use of a firearm, according to prosecutors. He faces life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Dalton's attorney, who had previously said he wouldn't pursue an insanity defense for his client, said Dalton was pleading guilty against his advice, to shield his family and victims' families from the emotional toll of a trial, NBC affiliate WOOD reported. Jury selection began last week and was due to end Monday.

Dalton, 45, who had no criminal history, drove around Kalamazoo on Feb. 20, 2016, opening fire on unsuspecting victims over the course of hours, all the while picking up fares between attacks.

Dalton told detectives that the Uber app had turned him into a "puppet" and picked his targets for him.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)




----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

I can find stories too. That support carrying. Like this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1142088002
And I suppose you think this driver was wrong to shoot because the attacker only had a cell phone.


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> I can find stories too. That support carrying. Like this:
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1142088002
> And I suppose you think this driver was wrong to shoot because the attacker only had a cell phone.


wow you found ONE...


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

dauction said:


> wow you found ONE...


Here, I found ONE also:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state (Pause - Part II) The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." ← PERIOD.

In 27 words the Founders established that states are sovereign, that in order to maintain a state's sovereignty, a militia must be maintained, and separately, Americans have a right to firearms without infringement. Let us be clear on the exact definition of infringement.

*INFRINGE In·fringe /in'frinj/ 1: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another. 2: Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.).*


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

wn100804 said:


> Here, I found ONE also:
> 
> "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state (Pause - Part II) The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." ← PERIOD.
> 
> ...


What is you definition of "arms"? Some on here (@steveK2016) believe it includes ALL weapons of war (I.e, fully automatic weapons, tanks, etc.). Are you in that camp? I couldn't get the OP to answer the question.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

kos um uber said:


> View attachment 326473


I love how similar that is to the S&W SD9 ?

Yeah, no patent infringement here! -o:


----------



## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> So your saying only poor folks own guns?
> 
> Hmmmm
> 
> Wait isn't Obama and Clinton protected 24/7 with armed guards? Must of gotten them from the Midwest is what your saying. Poor, illiterate midwestern folks. You do realize you sound like a bigot with that statement.


Nope.

?I'm sayin' anyone that thinks he needs a weapon to drive ride share sports a little peepee. Embrace ur little wee wee, stop blaming everyone else.
Cordially, a 4+ years TLC NYC Driver


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> So some of you choose to lawfully carry a gun....cool.
> Therefore, you should have no problem answering these real world situational questions as truthfully/honestly as you can.... no bravado ok, just real answers.
> 
> Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger?
> ...





Kevin.G said:


> Does having that gun on you make you feel stronger?


No, most of the time I forget it's there. 


Kevin.G said:


> What do you think would happen if you pulled your gun and shots are fired?


I would be prepared to be detained by law enforcement while they conduct their initial assessment. This is for officer safety, detained does not mean arrested. 


Kevin.G said:


> Are you always 100% certain that one of your shots won't injure or kill someone not involved in your fight?


Are you always 100% certain that you will not be involved in a motor vehicle collision that you caused? 


Kevin.G said:


> Do you actually believe that you are better than anyone (criminal or not) you run into that also has a gun?


If you have trained, especially under stress, absolutely. The average thug is not very bright and often has horrible firearm knowledge. Plenty of videos where their firearm is even out of battery when drawn (and you have no idea what that means, do you?). 


Kevin.G said:


> What would you do if you injured or maimed someone you know by accident and this prevents them from ever living a normal life?


That is a risk. I am substantially more likely to do that with my car after driving for ten hours chasing money on U/L. 


Kevin.G said:


> What would you do if you killed someone you know by accident?


I'd feel horrible. Just as I would if I killed someone by accident on the road. And, properly trained, this is easy to avoid. 


Kevin.G said:


> What if your assailant has far better hand to hand techniques and takes your gun from you?


Train, train, train


Kevin.G said:


> Do you know for certain that these situations above can't or won't happen to you?


Do you know for certain that you won't plow into a car full of kids with cancer and puppies while you look at an incoming ping? 


Kevin.G said:


> Do you feel that your life is always in clear and present danger?


Yes. Every day we get dressed and step out of the house, our life is in danger. Life also carries a 100% chance of death.

You sound very much like my ultra liberal father. He thought that I was going to be arrested simply for having a gun, even though I carry concealed and have a permit issued by the court.

I showed him some videos, explained how guns work (much like how pax often have no idea how RS works, it's amazing what people don't understand about firearms), and reviewed basic safety principles.

When I started driving full-time and had my first nut job pax, he asked if I was armed. "Good!"

*Guns are tools. *They can be used for sport, hunting, self defense, and yes - murder. So can knives, baseball bats, fists, your car, etc.

Go to a local range, rent a gun, and shoot a few rounds. Talk with others there. Armed citizens are often the nicest and most responsible people you can ever meet and we run the gamut.

Learned basic firearm safety as a child and have carried every day for three years. I have shot exactly zero people and have drawn my firearm once, in response to someone firing randomly from a car on my back country road.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> I showed him some videos, explained how guns work (much like how pax often have no idea how RS works, it's amazing what people don't understand about firearms), and reviewed basic safety principles.


When my Significant Other were preparing to live together, the S.O. insisted that I go to a range and get some basic instruction. I'm glad I did.

I don't carry, but I was surprised at how similar it is to handling hazardous materials. (I work in refineries and chemical plants.)

"These are the rules. Follow the rules and nobody gets hurt. Our goal is to send you home every day in the same condition you showed up to work in."



RabbleRouser said:


> I'm sayin' anyone that thinks he needs a weapon to drive ride share sports a little peepee. Embrace ur little wee wee, stop blaming everyone else.


Some of us are smaller than others. Haha!


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> When my Significant Other were preparing to live together, the S.O. insisted that I go to a range and get some basic instruction. I'm glad I did.
> 
> I don't carry, but I was surprised at how similar it is to handling hazardous materials. (I work in refineries and chemical plants.)
> 
> ...


Me thinks Christine self identifies with a giant pee pee and she enjoys it.



RabbleRouser said:


> Nope.
> 
> ?I'm sayin' anyone that thinks he needs a weapon to drive ride share sports a little peepee. Embrace ur little wee wee, stop blaming everyone else.
> Cordially, a 4+ years TLC NYC Driver


For your Rabble.






Embrace your pee pee.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> What is you definition of "arms"? Some on here (@steveK2016) believe it includes ALL weapons of war (I.e, fully automatic weapons, tanks, etc.). Are you in that camp? I couldn't get the OP to answer the question.


"Arms" in the definition you are looking for refers collectively to offensive and defensive weapons.

However, In my ideal world, "arms" in the militia means anything that can be carried by a singular troop. This is only my opinion.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Arms in my sedition is anything that can be used to defend oneself. 

Words can be arms. Like when my wife is ready to kill me and I use my words to defend myself with apologies.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

wn100804 said:


> "Arms" in the definition you are looking for refers collectively to offensive and defensive weapons.
> 
> However, In my ideal world, "arms" in the militia means anything that can be carried by a singular troop. This is only my opinion.


Sounds reasonable....I really struggle to come up with a definition since today's "arms" have very little in common with the "arms" at the time of the 2nd Amendment.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Sounds reasonable....I really struggle to come up with a definition since today's "arms" have very little in common with the "arms" at the time of the 2nd Amendment.


When the statement was written they had black powder single shot muskets. Not long after they developed gunpowder and revolvers.

Knives should be protected. 
Handguns, rifles and like protected. 
F-35 fighter jet is getting into a gray area. 1 person can operate it.

What people miss is today's army requires power and communications to properly execute orders. A militia with handguns and rifles can overthrow them by taking out the power grid which is not hard to do.


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> When the statement was written they had black powder single shot muskets. Not long after they developed gunpowder and revolvers.
> 
> Knives should be protected.
> Handguns, rifles and like protected.
> ...


I had to remove my "like" after you edited your post and added that stuff about the power grid. 

I don't think our military depends on a power grid to operate...a power grid helps, but is not necessary. At least it hasn't been in any of the wars we have fought. And the militia would do just fine without power and comms? BTW - what organized militia are you referring to? I guess I'm very naive, but aside from the fringe groups, do we have a militia?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> I don't think our military depends on a domestic power grid to operate....


Care to bet?

Our military runs off communications and computers today.

With no power how will orders be sent? Just a basic question.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Care to bet?
> 
> Our military runs off communications and computers today.
> 
> With no power how will orders be sent? Just a basic question.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Nope. It's simply referencing facts. You said the US Military doesn't need a power grid. The argument is in the video. You can fast forward if you like.


A total waste of time. I seriously doubt that the Secretary of Defense has a hard time sleeping at night worrying about you and your buddies with your muskets. :biggrin:


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> A total waste of time. I seriously doubt that the Secretary of Defense has a hard time sleeping at night worrying about you and your buddies with your muskets. :biggrin:


Yeah. My musket only holds a single bullet. And he sleeps at night because he knows we are out here ready to proct him if need be.

Tell me, how will you protect your family if you need to?


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## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> Sounds reasonable....I really struggle to come up with a definition since today's "arms" have very little in common with the "arms" at the time of the 2nd Amendment.


"Arms" are arms. Whether they be over 200 years old or state of the art technology. There is no age limit on arms. Our Founding Fathers knew that if the citizenry were disarmed, there was no telling what tyrannical government would do whether 200 years ago or 200 years in the future but one thing is clear . . . The Second is the only Amendment that states unequivocally "Shall not be infringed".

The Second protects all other amendments. Without the Big Second, tyrannical governments could take the all the others unopposed.

What do the people of Venezuela have working for them today? In 1939 Venezuela had enacted a law and was the only entity that could possess "weapons of war," ("arms") which include: canons, rifles, mortars, machine guns, sub-machine guns, carbines, pistols, and revolvers. Civilians could only possess .22 rifles and some shotguns. In 2002, Maduro enacted the Arms Disarmament Law, which basically ripped any form of arms from the citizens. In the second version of this law in 2012, all ammunition and firearms were banned.

Would Venezuela, once the most prosperous country in South America, be in this position today if the citizens were allowed to remain armed? Political turmoil can erupt at any time. The citizens of the US have this great Document that provides its citizens this _choice_.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> today's army requires power and communications to properly execute orders


I think that when the US Army goes into a hostile area, they generate all their own power. I'm betting they could set up enough generators to supply their own needs.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> I think that when the US Army goes into a hostile area, they generate all their own power. I'm betting they could set up enough generators to supply their own needs.


That would be that specific set of troops. Limited power. Communications requires power at both ends. In addition most communications require relay towers. Power grid down communication relay towers are down. No tower no relay.

also, air travel, even military requires air traffic control. No power to ATC. I can keep going.

Old SeaBee here.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> also, air travel, even military requires air traffic control. No power to ATC. I can keep going.


Doesn't seem to be a problem on aircraft carriers.

Since you were in the Navy, I'll ask this question. (Which I don't know the answer to.) Any idea how many MW of power one of those nuclear powered carriers generates?

I'm used to large industrial facilities, some of which export power to the grid.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Doesn't seem to be a problem on aircraft carriers.
> 
> Since you were in the Navy, I'll ask this question. (Which I don't know the answer to.) Any idea how many MW of power one of those nuclear powered carriers generates?
> 
> I'm used to large industrial facilities, some of which export power to the grid.


Aircraft carrier has power to receive message. But does other side have power to send message? Do relay towers in between have power to relay the message?

No clue, but I'll google it for ya


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

wn100804 said:


> "Arms" are arms. Whether they be over 200 years old or state of the art technology. There is no age limit on arms. Our Founding Fathers knew that if the citizenry were disarmed, there was no telling what tyrannical government would do whether 200 years ago or 200 years in the future but one thing is clear . . . The Second is the only Amendment that states unequivocally "Shall not be infringed".
> 
> The Second protects all other amendments. Without the Big Second, tyrannical governments could take the all the others unopposed.
> 
> ...


All this to say that you're ok with your neighbor, Mr. Jones, having grenades, fully automatic weapons, tanks, and RPG's at his place? Yes or no?


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> All this to say that you're ok with your neighbor, Mr. Jones, having grenades, fully automatic weapons, tanks, and RPG's at his place? Yes or no?


If he is a responsible citizen then yes. Responsible defined as having no history of showing no reason for him not too. Why is it anyone's business what anyone else has in their home? Jealous much.


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> If he is a responsible citizen then yes. Responsible defined as having no history of showing no reason for him not too. Why is it anyone's business what anyone else has in their home? Jealous much.


IMHO that's nuts...


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> IMHO that's nuts...


In my honest opinion it's nuts to not be fully prepared to defend oneself. Not all my weapons are 100% acceptable to society. But in a fight who cares about acceptable. I carry about going home.

Example: I wear a crucifix. It's only a crucifix until I pull down on the base, then it's a 1 1/2 inch razor dagger. Some will say that is sacreligous, I say I'm using what God provides to do what needs to be done.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Lee239 said:


> In Parkland at that shooting the cop who wanted to be a hall monitor instead was a coward who hid and waited outside and is being tried now for failing to act. So I think everyone walking around with a gun like this is the wild wild west is a mistake.
> 
> If you carry a gun you better pray you don't get into a road rage incident, get mad and kill the person and waste your life in jail. A person without a gun won't get into that situation.


This is a good point,

I know i'm fine, i've had several violent passengers i didn't just choose to ventilate so i know i'm good.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Holy shit, one heck of a thread! ?

Look, he felt that he was in danger and made a decision. Was it right, in my opinion as an armed citizen?

No. I have found myself in similar situations and have been prepared to draw. But I will not display my firearm unless I am about to light someone up.

It's the matter of surprise and situational awareness. Train. Deescalate, find an exit, use less lethal if possible. If all else fails, center mass with 9mm hollow points coming your way.

Regardless of where any of us stand on firearms or the 2nd ammendment.

*Where you there??!?*

If not, I fully support this gentleman's decision because I wasn't personally in this situation.

IIf you carry, just be smart. Please.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

I will never allow any of my passengers or myself to be harmed by a cretin who is armed.

That is why I carry.

No bullshit from the anti 2a posters will change my mind.


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## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> All this to say that you're ok with your neighbor, Mr. Jones, having grenades, fully automatic weapons, tanks, and RPG's at his place? Yes or no?


If I'm a felon, NO. If I have been charged with a misdemeanor domestic violence, NO. If I have fled a state to avoid prosecution, NO. If I abuse drugs in any way shape or form, NO. If I have renounced my US Citizenship, NO. If I have been committed to a mental facility, NO. If I have been charged with stalking, NO. Believe it or not, those who have been dishonorably discharged, NO. If I am not a US citizen, NO.

I believe any and all of the above listed people should NOT have any 'right' to any firearm. But yet we keep allowing drunks back on the roads to kill nd maim others. We allow serious criminals back out on the street to kill again. We keep allowing illegal aliens into America like it is a God given right for them to live here.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

wn100804 said:


> If I'm a felon, NO. If I have been charged with a misdemeanor domestic violence, NO. If I have fled a state to avoid prosecution, NO. If I abuse drugs in any way shape or form, NO. If I have renounced my US Citizenship, NO. If I have been committed to a mental facility, NO. If I have been charged with stalking, NO. Believe it or not, those who have been dishonorably discharged, NO. If I am not a US citizen, NO.
> 
> I believe any and all of the above listed people should NOT have any 'right' to any firearm. But yet we keep allowing drunks back on the roads to kill nd maim others. We allow serious criminals back out on the street to kill again. We keep allowing illegal aliens into America like it is a God given right for them to live here.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

justaGoober said:


> All this to say that you're ok with your neighbor, Mr. Jones, having grenades, fully automatic weapons, tanks, and RPG's at his place? Yes or no?


Yes.

I'm fine with law abiding, God fearing citizens having as much firepower as they want.


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## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> View attachment 328715


This means exactly what?

I have nothing to do with Mexico being mine.



Christinebitg said:


> Yes.
> 
> I'm fine with law abiding, God fearing citizens having as much firepower as they want.


Best thing I have heard all day! Only snowflakes get butt hurt at the thought of an honest citizen owning and carrying <gasp> a gun!


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

wn100804 said:


> This means exactly what?
> 
> I have nothing to do with Mexico being mine.
> 
> ...


There's a place for Mexicans.
It is called "Mexico"


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> Yes.
> 
> I'm fine with law abiding, *God fearing* citizens having as much firepower as they want.


While I am a believer in God, is that one of your requirements for owning weapons? Yea, that will fly...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> No clue, but I'll google it for ya


Thanks. Interesting stuff.

But it still doesn't say how many megawatts of power they generate. It only says how much power is being applied to propulsion.

The big aircraft carriers have about 1/3 the population of my home town. And probably more need for air conditioning, since that town is in northern Ohio.

For reference, the largest refineries in the US generate about 60 or 70 MW of electric power. That's not including the energy of the steam that's generated for process uses. (They use gas turbine generators, not steam turbines, to generate the electricity.)

Yes, I ~am~ a geek. LOL One of my girlfriends uses the name "Geekette" on a different site, so I think I have to pass on that. Maybe if I adopted a different cute spelling of it. (Her real name is Vicki.)

Christine


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

wn100804 said:


> If I'm a felon, NO. If I have been charged with a misdemeanor domestic violence, NO. If I have fled a state to avoid prosecution, NO. If I abuse drugs in any way shape or form, NO. If I have renounced my US Citizenship, NO. If I have been committed to a mental facility, NO. If I have been charged with stalking, NO. Believe it or not, those who have been dishonorably discharged, NO. If I am not a US citizen, NO.
> 
> I believe any and all of the above listed people should NOT have any 'right' to any firearm. But yet we keep allowing drunks back on the roads to kill nd maim others. We allow serious criminals back out on the street to kill again. We keep allowing illegal aliens into America like it is a God given right for them to live here.


A few posts ago you were railing against "Mosloms". Somehow I believe you would have real problem with someone having fully automatic weapons, RPG's, tanks, etc., if his last name was Muhammad instead of Jones.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> There's a place for Mexicans.
> It is called "Mexico"


I live in Texas. Once upon a time, it used to be part of Mexico.

I wouldn't have moved here if it still was.

But I gotta say... Most of my ancestry comes from Germany. Where did your ancestors move here from?

Or would you prefer it this way: If you want to speak English, move back to England.



justaGoober said:


> While I am a believer in God, is that one of your requirements for owning weapons? Yea, that will fly...


No, it's just a shorthand way of saying decent people, as opposed to the psychopath next door.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

justaGoober said:


> While I am a believer in God, is that one of your requirements for owning weapons? Yea, that will fly...


Yeahhhh. Religion and guns notoriously do not go together very well.



Christinebitg said:


> No, it's just a shorthand way of saying decent people, as opposed to the psychopath next door.


The most nutty, unstable, hateful, and unfortunately armed people I have known are "God fearing".

And, with the limited background check process and lax laws for personal sales, we're going to continue having mass shootings.

Virginia was the lucky state this time around. Legally purchased firearms, no criminal history, by most accounts a stable "God fearing" man.

I am glad to have the ability to carry but I am not blind to the fact that we have problems as a country. And one does not become a criminal until they commit a crime - such as walking through a building killing people.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Walking through a building killing people is not necessarily a crime. Assuming it is is bad. One must first answer these questions:

1. Does the person shooting have the right to be in the building/property in question?

2. Why is this individual shooting people?

After all, it could be a good person taking out members of Antifa.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Walking through a building killing people is not necessarily a crime. Assuming it is is bad. One must first answer these questions:
> 
> 1. Does the person shooting have the right to be in the building/property in question?
> 
> ...


You're trolling here, right? ? I'm gullible sometimes. So we'll just go with "yes".


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> And, with the limited background check process and lax laws for personal sales, we're going to continue having mass shootings.


Yup...and there are many on here that want people to have access to unlimited fire power. Crazy


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> Yup...and there are many on here that want people to have access to unlimited fire power. Crazy


Not unlimited. Just what they can afford.


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> You're trolling here, right? ? I'm gullible sometimes. So we'll just go with "yes".


I wish that were the case....Sadly, I don't think he's a troll.....


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

justaGoober said:


> I wish that were the case....Sadly, I don't think he's a troll.....


If that wasn't an attempt at humor, he needs read the news. And he should not be armed.

But I'm sure he was just kidding. Right?? ? ?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

WAHN said:


> Not unlimited. Just what they can afford. :biggrin:


I'm taking the liberals stance on how many guns I can have. Forget what you can afford, we should all have as many as we want because god damn it, we're soecial and it's our right.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> I'm taking the liberals stance on how many guns I can have. Forget what you can afford, we should all have as many as we want because god damn it, we're soecial and it's our right.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> I live in Texas. Once upon a time, it used to be part of Mexico.
> 
> I wouldn't have moved here if it still was.
> 
> ...


Immigrate legally.
My ancestors did.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

justaGoober said:


> A few posts ago you were railing against "Mosloms". Somehow I believe you would have real problem with someone having fully automatic weapons, RPG's, tanks, etc., if his last name was Muhammad instead of Jones.


I was "railing against mosloms" for a completely different matter. Had nothing to do with the Second.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Immigrate legally.
> My ancestors did.


Think about that for a minute, starting with the first "settlers" ?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Think about that for a minute, starting with the first "settlers" ?
> 
> View attachment 328807


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Think about that for a minute, starting with the first "settlers" ?
> 
> View attachment 328807


Have you ever read the treaties between the United States and the different Native American tribes? The land was sold by the native Americans per those treaties. They are still being paid for it today.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Have you ever read the treaties between the United States and the different Native American tribes? The land was sold by the native Americans per those treaties. They are still being paid for it today.


Hey, may I interest you in a warm blanket?


----------



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Have you ever read the treaties between the United States and the different Native American tribes? The land was sold by the native Americans per those treaties. They are still being paid for it today.


If today's laws existed back then, I'd guess that those contracts were signed under duress and would be void.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

WAHN said:


> If today's laws existed back then, I'd guess that those contracts were signed under duress and would be void.


I am a genealogical mutt. I choose Scottish because of my last name and Dad's family's more linear immigration (most settled in North Carolina, common for Scotts at the time).

Mom's side puts me back in this general area of Virginia (Prince George) in the 1600s. One of my ancestors married a Powhatan woman. I have Native American blood coursing through these veins and I have always kept an open heart to anyone seeking refuge or to those who have been displaced.

Yep, the Native Americans had an awesome time. Didn't you see Disney's Pocahontas? It was such a great love story! And total BS ?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Hey, may I interest you in a warm blanket?


You really think that.

Would it surprise you to learn that the USGovt to this day pays 100% for the following:

1. 100% medical care for all tribal members in private care facilities.

2. 100% of education including college at the members choice of schools.

3. Infrastructure. Roads, bridges, water, power, sewage and whatever else infrastructure includes.

I can keep going. Go read the treaties.

And FYI tribes still sell off their land to developers to this day. Some develop and lease it out themselves.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> You really think that.
> 
> Would it surprise you to learn that the USGovt to this day pays 100% for the following:
> 
> ...


Back on topic. Armed citizens with a strong political leaning to either side *really* concern me. They're far more likely to shoot someone or brandish when it wasn't warranted, giving the rest of us a bad name.

If you choose to have prejudice in your life, or think less of a group of people based on who or what they vote for, please don't carry a firearm.

My wife and I have also been in the same situation and worse. How did I react? Got the hell out of the situation and quickly. My gun remained under my shirt, where it belongs unless I am in a situation that without questioning requires lethal force.

And you'll also never see me open carrying. Most ******ed thing to do in modern America. Either you're going to be harassed by the police, find yourself as the first target, get mugged for your firearm, or just scare people.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Back on topic. Armed citizens with a strong political leaning to either side *really* concern me. They're far more likely to shoot someone or brandish when it wasn't warranted, giving the rest of us a bad name.
> 
> If you choose to have prejudice in your life, or think less of a group of people based on who or what they vote for, please don't carry a firearm.
> 
> ...


Everyone has political leanings. It's within us from birth. All have some type of prejudice. Do you prefer one beer over another? Is there a beer you will not drink no matter what. That's a prejudice.

I don't agree with democrats. Can't stand antifa liberal idiots. But if one was in trouble I would respond as if it was my own daughter in trouble.

Don't confuse my dislike for them as a desire to see them hurt.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Everyone has political leanings. It's within us from birth. All have some type of prejudice. Do you prefer one beer over another? Is there a beer you will not drink no matter what. That's a prejudice.
> 
> I don't agree with democrats. Can't stand antifa liberal idiots. But if one was in trouble I would respond as if it was my own daughter in trouble.
> 
> Don't confuse my dislike for them as a desire to see them hurt.


Fair enough. I'm really smack dab in the middle politically, both sides of our stupid two party system piss me off. Beer.. Is it cold? I will drink it. Hell, even room temperature (best beer of my life was in London, room temp and just from the brewing process).

Statistically, people who are armed and have a strong slant toward a political party or religion are more likely to commit gun crimes. Source, multiple recent mass shootings.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Everyone has political leanings. It's within us from birth. All have some type of prejudice. Do you prefer one beer over another? Is there a beer you will not drink no matter what. That's a prejudice.
> 
> I don't agree with democrats. Can't stand antifa liberal idiots. But if one was in trouble I would respond as if it was my own daughter in trouble.
> 
> Don't confuse my dislike for them as a desire to see them hurt.


I don't have political leanings. As I said, both sides piss me off. And I think I answered the beer question. Is it cold?

Look, man. This thread is 24 pages long - I'm guessing because of the difference in opinion.

Got a 9mm on my hip right now and I also wish that we had better screening for firearms than we do for Uber in all states.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> I don't have political leanings. As I said, both sides piss me off. And I think I answered the beer question. Is it cold?
> 
> Look, man. This thread is 24 pages long - I'm guessing because of the difference in opinion.
> 
> Got a 9mm on my hip right now and I also wish that we had better screening for firearms than we do for Uber in all states.


Already is. To buy a firearm you must fill out a form 4473 which inquires not just about criminal but also mental health. It is the. Submitted to the fbi to verify.

Uber uses Checker to do their backgrounds. No mental check at all. In addition once a felon always a felon for guns, Uber forgives after 7 years.

I'm glad we could make this wish come true for you. It is our humble honor.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Already is. To buy a firearm you must fill out a form 4473 which inquires not just about criminal but also mental health. It is the. Submitted to the fbi to verify.
> 
> Uber uses Checker to do their backgrounds. No mental check at all. In addition once a felon always a felon for guns, Uber forgives after 7 years.
> 
> I'm glad we could make this wish come true for you. It is our humble honor.


Um, depends on the state, my friend. Here in Virginia it's an basic state and federal check for criminal history. No waiting period, no psychological screening. I can sell my gun to whomever I choose without a bill of sale or background check.

I can't carry in Pennsylvania anymore because they finally came to their senses. Virginia's process was too lax for their state. I agree with that.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Um, depends on the state, my friend. Here in Virginia it's an basic state and federal check for criminal history. No waiting period, no psychological screening. I can sell my gun to whomever I choose without a bill of sale or background check.
> 
> I can't carry in Pennsylvania anymore because they finally came to their senses. Virginia's process was too lax for their state. I agree with that.


You said you own a gun?

The form 4473 IS a federal background check. It MUST be done in all 50 states if you buy a gun from a commercial seller. It is a criminal and mental background check.

I live in AZ, we have almost no gun control laws here. Still have to do the federal check. No way around it.

How many redundant checks would you like? In my opinion gun laws should be federal due to the constitution and screw the states.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

By the way, it's not like anyone could lie, right?! I mean, there's no actual screening process. It's just a few checkboxs. 

I certainly didn't answer any questions regarding my mental health when I received both my first firearm (took all of 30 minutes) or my concealed carry permit. 

I live in a "shall issue" state - no criminal background, pay a fee and you're golden to carry concealed. We also don't have to notify law enforcement unless directly asked. 

It's BS, man. Enough of this 2nd ammendment BS and the NRA can shove it.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> By the way, it's not like anyone could lie, right?! I mean, there's no actual screening process. It's just a few checkboxs.
> 
> I certainly didn't answer any questions regarding my mental health when I received both my first firearm (took all of 30 minutes) or my concealed carry permit.
> 
> ...


The fbi runs the mental health background. Instead of chiming in with what you want why don't you actually go read the law. And yes, people do get denied purchases and CCW's based upon mental health history.

Your so convinced your right with what you think you know your arguing for things to be done that are already done.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> The fbi runs the mental health background. Instead of chiming in with what you want why don't you actually go read the law. And yes, people do get denied purchases and CCW's based upon mental health history.
> 
> Your so convinced your right with what you think you know your arguing for things to be done that are already done.


So how can you explain the mass shooters that passed the current background checks? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html

States like Pennsylvania used to be very liberal with gun laws as Virginia still is. Then they came to their senses. As much as I hate being unarmed in Pennsylvania now (they used to have reciprocity), I fully agree with their actions.



BlueNOX said:


> You said you own a gun?
> 
> The form 4473 IS a federal background check. It MUST be done in all 50 states if you buy a gun from a commercial seller. It is a criminal and mental background check.
> 
> ...


https://lawcenter.giffords.org/private-sales-in-virginia/
It's basically the honor system for personal sales here.

How about actual mental health screening? Make it a felony to sell someone a firearm without a background check? Mandatory waiting period? Registration?

Some states say that you can't be armed unless you are the elite. Others, it's a free for all. There's no consistency.

I get it. You're an ultra conservative that will be totally blind to the real problems we face with gun violence no matter what. 'Murica! The government is coming after us! Etc. Kinda goes hand in hand with some of our latest shooters.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> So how can you explain the mass shooters that passed the current background checks? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html
> 
> States like Pennsylvania used to be very liberal with gun laws as Virginia still is. Then they came to their senses. As much as I hate being unarmed in Pennsylvania now (they used to have reciprocity), I fully agree with their actions.
> 
> ...


The mental health screening is mandatory and done already. Your example sucks, because there is no way to tell a person will crack before the fact. Further, just because you believe they might one day you can't deny them their rights under the constitution. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it's a right that can not be infringed upon.

How did he get his guns? He passed the background. No felony convictions and no history of mental health done.

The mental health search is based upon those who have been committed or found to have mental instability through the courts. Those convicted of domestic violence and so on.

To make everyone go through a mental health screening g would have a few issues:

1. Backlog. It will be huge. 
2. Your giving the govt access to your medical records now. Privacy issue. 
3. Your creating a written record of who owns guns. That has been deemed unconstitutional. 
4. Your going to trust an individual to interview people who are requesting to own guns, fine. Now what if that individual has an undisclosed issue with guns and say no to everyone. You can't guarantee it won't happen.

You can only deny based upon past history/behavior not on what someone might do.

Look at it like this. What if someone were to tell your wife you have a high likely hood to punch women and theeefore she should divorce you? Would that be fair? You may be the gentlest man on earth with zero likelihood of doing that. More than likely you never will, but doesn't matter because someone says you probably will, someone who talked to you for an hour.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> The mental health screening is mandatory and done already. Your example sucks, because there is no way to tell a person will crack before the fact. Further, just because you believe they might one day you can't deny them their rights under the constitution. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it's a right that can not be infringed upon.
> 
> How did he get his guns? He passed the background. No felony convictions and no history of mental health done.
> 
> ...


Did you read the article? There have been huge events carried out by people that slipped through the cracks in a lax system.

And in modern America, being armed outside of one's own home is absolutely a privilege. Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Delaware to name a few. Only law enforcement, VIPs, and those with a valid reason have the privilege to carry. While I disagree with that, on some level, it's a fact.

Felon? Mental illness on record? You do not have the "right" to bear arms. It's a privilege.

By the way, many people also believe that driving is a right and not a privilege. I hope you don't fall into that category ?

Anyway, this debate has been fun. Tapping out because arguments like this go on forever.

We both carry. We would both lay down our lives protecting ourselves, a loved one, or anyone in danger. We disagree on the politics and that's okay.

Just please be safe out there. Wish you well.

And just so you don't think I'm full of BS..

This is me -









And this is my muffin top. Don't judge.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

1. Driving, ie operating a motor vehicle is not in the bill of rights or constitution. It is a privilege.

2. The right to bear arms is the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. It’s an absolute right, the only right that the framers went so far as to put shall not be infringed in.

We have that cleared up. Where do you get that the right to carry is only in the home. It doesn’t say the right to own. It specifically states the right to bear arms. That means to have them on your person. Further, it even references a militia as an example. Are militias only to fight in their homes?

Straight up I’ve never heard such garbage before.

If gun ownership was a privilege not a right it would not be in the bill of rights.

I guess you believe free speech, religion, press and so on are all just privileges too.

And FYI, there will always be anomalies, outliers for any situation. The trick is to minimalize them as much as possible.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> 1. Driving, ie operating a motor vehicle is not in the bill of rights or constitution. It is a privilege.
> 
> 2. The right to bear arms is the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. It's an absolute right, the only right that the framers went so far as to put shall not be infringed in.
> 
> ...


Take a stroll around NYC open carrying and let me know how that works for you. In many states, it's a privilege.

Don't be one of these morons -






Peace ✌

Last comment. The fact that you either are somehow unaware that many states prohibit citizens from carrying or you choose to ignore those laws is horrifying.

Carrying a firearm requires responsibility that I feel you lack, sir. Again, I wish you the best. Please don't let other armed citizens down by doing something stupid because you disagree with state and federal laws because of the Second Ammendment. And that's me exercising my First.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Take a stroll around NYC open carrying and let me know how that works for you. In many states, it's a privilege.
> 
> Don't be one of these morons -
> 
> ...


I don't live in New York or New York City. The laws there are out of control and do nothing to stop violence. All they do is disarm honest people to enable criminals to take better advantage of them.

I live in Phoenix where open/concealed carry is legal, just as defensive display is legal. I'm thinking your not familiar with that law. Look it up.

Democrats are sheep that allow criminals to strip away their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Remember that document, the Declaration of Independence? By excercising my right to carry, open or concealed I help to ensure those around me are safer because criminals know society here is allowed to carry and react without fear of retribution. In New York no one helps because of fear of retribution via arrest and/or civil suit.

This thread is about an incident that occurred in AZ. Bringing New York in just makes a great example of why democrats/liberals have the wrong views on guns.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Kids, there's nothing more scary than someone who carries a gun out of fear, paranoia, or political reasons. 

It's 2019, not 1791.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Who’s carrying out of fear or paranoia. I carry out of reality.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Who's carrying out of fear or paranoia. I carry out of reality.


You carry because of patriotism and fear. I predict that you will shoot someone at some point when it wasn't necessary. I don't know AZ laws on that so maybe you'll slide.

If you ever actually use your firearm, hopefully this thread is deleted before your court date.

Carry on, partner.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Take a stroll around NYC open carrying and let me know how that works for you. In many states, it's a privilege.
> 
> Don't be one of these morons -
> 
> ...


Take a stroll around Bedford Stuyvesant at 2300.
See how that works out for you.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Immigrate legally.
> My ancestors did.


So did mine, at a time when decent numbers were allowed in legally.

Nowadays, the numbers that are let in are a small fraction, comparatively speaking. Tremendous numbers of people want to come here legally. Because in many ways, it IS the promised land.

Most of the people who come here illegally do it out of desperation. Many of those came in legally, but overstayed their visas. Not unlike the current First Lady.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Take a stroll around Bedford Stuyvesant at 2300.
> See how that works out for you.


Okay? What's your point?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> So did mine, at a time when decent numbers were allowed in legally.
> 
> Nowadays, the numbers that are let in are a small fraction, comparatively speaking. Tremendous numbers of people want to come here legally. Because in many ways, it IS the promised land.
> 
> Most of the people who come here illegally do it out of desperation. Many of those came in legally, but overstayed their visas. Not unlike the current First Lady.


An illegal alien murdered my friend's son in a bit and run. He was already deported three times. No American should be harmed in any way by people who should not even be here in the first place. Enough of this crap.



Benjamin M said:


> Okay? What's your point?


Figure it out.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> No American should be harmed in any way by people who should not even be here in the first place. Enough of this crap.


I agree. Melania should be deported.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> An illegal alien murdered my friend's son in a bit and run. He was already deported three times. No American should be harmed in any way by people who should not even be here in the first place. Enough of this crap.
> 
> 
> Figure it out.


A human being murdered your friend's son. Where someone was born means absolutely nothing.

Figure it out. Okay, it's NYC. The most strict gun laws anywhere. Does that mean no gun murders? Nope, of course not. This thread is about lawful carrying of a firearm.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> A human being murdered your friend's son. Where someone was born means absolutely nothing.
> 
> Figure it out. Okay, it's NYC. The most strict gun laws anywhere. Does that mean no gun murders? Nope, of course not. This thread is about lawful carrying of a firearm.


And it is legal to carry a firearm in Arizona.



Christinebitg said:


> I agree. Melania should be deported.


Aww.
Show us on the doll where she hurt you.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> And it is legal to carry a firearm in Arizona.
> 
> 
> Aww.
> Show us on the doll where she hurt you.


Yeah, that makes absolutely no sense.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

You make no sense.
Mind your own business.
We don't need your crap here in AZ.



Benjamin M said:


> A human being murdered your friend's son. Where someone was born means absolutely nothing.
> 
> Figure it out. Okay, it's NYC. The most strict gun laws anywhere. Does that mean no gun murders? Nope, of course not. This thread is about lawful carrying of a firearm.


Pol Pot was a human being.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> You make no sense.
> Mind your own business.
> We don't need your crap here in AZ.


Gotcha.

So much hate and stupidity these days in our great country. It's really sad.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Pol Pot was a human being.


The point was that it doesn't matter where someone was born.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

No kidding.
Go look in the mirror.


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## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

Play nice guys.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

I hope the next kid who is raped or murdered by an illegal alien is the child of a high profile Democrat like Pelosi.

See what she says then.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> No kidding.
> Go look in the mirror.


I see an immigrant with a gun. I see someone responsible enough to have that privilege. I see someone who does not harbor hate.



Z129 said:


> Play nice guys.


Yeah I seriously need to tap out. Message me if I say anything else.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Z129 said:


> Play nice guys.


I'm blown away.
My friends son is dead, and he posts that.
I'll ignore him from this point forward.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> I'm blown away.
> My friends son is dead, and he posts that.
> I'll ignore him from this point forward.


Okay, I'm done here.

Ignore works for me.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> So much hate and stupidity these days in our great country. It's really sad.
> 
> ...


It does matter. Where a person is born forms the majority of their self socialization, how they think and personal beliefs. Are you going to tell em someone in Born and raised in Alaska has the same view points as someone born and raised in New York City?


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> In Parkland at that shooting the cop who wanted to be a hall monitor instead was a coward who hid and waited outside and is being tried now for failing to act. So I think everyone walking around with a gun like this is the wild wild west is a mistake.
> 
> If you carry a gun you better pray you don't get into a road rage incident, get mad and kill the person and waste your life in jail. A person without a gun won't get into that situation.


The Parkland officer won't go to jail for failure to act. He may get probation for perjury. Law enforcement have no legal responsibility to save your life. None. This has been decided and reconfirmed by the Supreme Court multiple times in the last several decades. This is why personal protection is important. The only one you can trust to save yourself and your family is you.

What if someone else road rages with a gun, if you don't have a gun to protect yourself, you may be dead. I'd rather risk going to jail then risk going to dead. I can trust my self to do the right thing, to not have road rage and shot an innocent person. I don't, however, trust others to do the same.



Christinebitg said:


> I agree. Melania should be deported.


Melania is married to the leader of the free world, I'm pretty sure that qualifies her for at least a green card...


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> The Parkland officer won't go to jail for failure to act. He may get probation for perjury. Law enforcement have no legal responsibility to save your life. None. This has been decided and reconfirmed by the Supreme Court multiple times in the last several decades. This is why personal protection is important. The only one you can trust to save yourself and your family is you.
> 
> What if someone else road rages with a gun, if you don't have a gun to protect yourself, you may be dead. I'd rather risk going to jail then risk going to dead. I can trust my self to do the right thing, to not have road rage and shot an innocent person. I don't, however, trust others to do the same.





steveK2016 said:


>


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> Melania is married to the leader of the free world, I'm pretty sure that qualifies her for at least a green card...


If you're going to deport people who once-upon-a-time committed a violation, you need to start with her.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> If you're going to deport people who once-upon-a-time committed a violation, you need to start with her.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> If you're going to deport people who once-upon-a-time committed a violation, you need to start with her.


What once upon a time committed violationl? If they are undocumented today, that is a today violation. I dont recall anyone advocating deporting people that have naturalized but may have come in the country illegally years prior.


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> What once upon a time committed violationl? If they are undocumented today, that is a today violation. I dont recall anyone advocating deporting people that have naturalized but may have come in the country illegally years prior.


How did we go from carrying a gun to deporting people? How did Melania Trump get in this?

Me so confused.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> What once upon a time committed violationl? If they are undocumented today, that is a today violation. I dont recall anyone advocating deporting people that have naturalized but may have come in the country illegally years prior.


You obviously missed it when the Leader of the Free World said he was going to start deporting any foreign national who had ever had a violation of any kind, including a speeding ticket.



BlueNOX said:


> How did we go from carrying a gun to deporting people? How did Melania Trump get in this?


We got there when someone said he needed to protect himself and his family from murderous illegal immigrants.

I mentioned the First Lady as someone who has in the past been an illegal immigrant, because she overstayed her visa.

I hasten to add, that this is the single most common way of being in the US illegally.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Strong political views and guns scare me. People who carry out of fear scare me even more.

Someone made you feel anxious and you advertised the fact that you were armed. I'm curious, was this individual a different color?

I wasn't there. But, based on the story, I would be prepared to break concealment, scan my surroundings for bystanders (make sure that I had a clear shot), and have an exit strategy.

My wife and I have encountered several situations similar to the one outlined here. I kept the option of surprise.

Oh, speaking of fear.

An officer stopped an elderly woman for speeding. He jokingly asked if she had any guns in the car.

"I have a 9mm on my hip, a 357 in my purse, a 45 in the glove compartment, and an AR in the trunk."

"Jesus, lady! What are you so afraid of?!"

"Absolutely nothing!" ?


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Strong political views and guns scare me. People who carry out of fear scare me even more.
> 
> Someone made you feel anxious and you advertised the fact that you were armed. I'm curious, was this individual a different color?
> 
> ...


The race/color question is never a factor for me. The US Navy taught me everyone is blue. The USNCB taught me everyone is green. End of story.

While people say they won't break concealment I counter with this fact:

Every year defensive display of a firearm saves an estimated 500,000 to 3,000,000 lives.

Think about that. This was textbook defensive display.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> You obviously missed it when the Leader of the Free World said he was going to start deporting any foreign national who had ever had a violation of any kind, including a speeding ticket.
> 
> 
> We got there when someone said he needed to protect himself and his family from murderous illegal immigrants.
> ...


Source?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> Source?


Houston Chronicle article dated September 25, 2014:

"Francis Gomez saw the white van trailing him one morning earlier this month after leaving his modest three-bedroom home in Spring for his construction job site. An illegal immigrant from El Salvador, he had used a special work authorization to build a life for himself and raise two sons - both U.S. citizens - in Houston, working two jobs to pay his mortgage.

This is what he'd crossed the border to pursue almost 20 years ago - until agents in the van from Immigration and Customs Enforcement stopped and arrested him to begin deportation proceedings, ostensibly for two minor motor vehicle infractions."

Note that he came into the US illegally, but in the 20 years he was in the US, he had acquired a special work permit.


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## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

If we deported all the illegals how will Uber and Lyft get drivers.


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## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Every year defensive display of a firearm saves an estimated 500,000 to 3,000,000 lives.


I just can't help myself.....* lol*


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## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

Just how great can a society be when a majority of its population is so scared of each other they feel the 'need' to carry gun(s)?

When asked 'why you carry'.... the most popular answer is "protection from criminals". Wow... so it begs this question of any cc oc supporter... How many people, on your daily routine, do you regard as a potentially life threatening criminal?


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Kevin.G said:


> How many people, on your daily routine, do you regard as a potentially life threatening criminal?


No one and everyone. Same way you regard every car on the road around you. None are a threat while all of them are a threat. It's why you drive defensively, wear a seatbelt, but insurance and own a car with multiple airbags.


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## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> No one and everyone. Same way you regard every car on the road around you. None are a threat while all of them are a threat. It's why you drive defensively, wear a seatbelt, but insurance and own a car with multiple airbags.


Not the same at all, cars were and are designed for transportation, guns were and are designed to kill.

There is an abundance of global evidence to support airbags and seat belt use for personal safety...for instance, 2018 US estimates show 4,500,000 people injured in car accidents and 40,000 died as a result of car accidents, Imagine just how large that number would be if seat belt and air bag use were not made mandatory.
Insurance, well there are good reasons for it such as getting your car repaired after vandalism or and accident be that hit and run or otherwise, and again evidence to support it.

Conversely, anyone ever wonder just how many injuries and lives would be saved if legally owned guns did not outnumber the population of the US?

_I am only speaking of legally owned guns._... how many people would not have to rush themselves or loved ones to the hospital with accidental firing?.... how many kids would not have injured themselves or others?.... how many legally owned guns would not have ended up in the hands of criminals?.... how many mass shootings would have been prevented (yep many of the shooters used their own legally acquired guns)..... and the list goes on.... we do not and _can not_ have those numbers precisely because the number of legally owned guns do outnumber the citizenry.

I will not argue about how many cc oc owners have in fact prevented crimes, that does have supporting evidence. But this is also a direct result of legal guns outnumbering citizens.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

This is one issue where opposing sides will never agree regardless of the facts you present because facts can be twisted to either side. It goes back to what I said earlier, don't like guns, fine nobody is forcing you to own or carry one. But just because you don't like them don't force your beliefs on me and take my rights away. Pretty simple.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

FLKeys said:


> This is one issue where opposing sides will never agree regardless of the facts you present because facts can be twisted to either side. It goes back to what I said earlier, don't like guns, fine nobody is forcing you to own or carry one. But just because you don't like them don't force your beliefs on me and take my rights away. Pretty simple.


 Gun control advocates are like far right religious zealots. Beating up the public with their gun control bible.

Next time I get approached on the street by them gonna treat em like jehovah witnesses and strip down to my tighty whities. Fart streak and all.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> This is one issue where opposing sides will never agree regardless of the facts you present because facts can be twisted to either side. It goes back to what I said earlier, don't like guns, fine nobody is forcing you to own or carry one. But just because you don't like them don't force your beliefs on me and take my rights away. Pretty simple.


And those that appose lax gun regulations being demanded by gun lobbyists and their supporters, would gladly take that exact same stand.... IF.... gun lobbyists at all levels of society would cease and desist in their attempts to force their beliefs on everyone.

All of a sudden it's not so simple, huh.... uh oh, here is that totally pesky_ "two sides to every story"_ thing.

Yeah, if gun lobbyists and their supporters were to actually get their way, they would definitely force everyone to carry a gun...because then it would be reckless_ to not carry_ if EVERYONE carried. Which is precisely what threads like this one and the many hundreds of others like this are doing, forcing their beliefs on others.

So show your support against people forcing their beliefs on others by pointing your comment to those actually applying the force, the gun lobbyists and their supporters.

Support and have your input on reasonable, stronger, enforceable gun regulations and laws.... support better, stronger, in depth background checks of anyone that wants to legally own a firearm... make that background check even stiffer for those that want to carry a firearm. Support stiffer sentences against anyone that uses a firearm in a crime. 
Actually be a reasonable and responsible citizen first, then be a gun owner.

_and now the flamers will attack.... they will use all kinds of gun lobbyist rhetoric mixed in with personal attacks towards me, precisely because they can not defend their position otherwise. _



BlueNOX said:


> Gun control advocates are like far right religious zealots. Beating up the public with their gun control bible.
> 
> Next time I get approached on the street by them gonna treat em like jehovah witnesses and strip down to my tighty whities. Fart streak and all.


Funny you say that... most gun lobbyists and their supporters are rather strong religious believers, many of them use the phrase "my god given right" not hatin' juss sayin'


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## jas905 (Mar 25, 2019)

Excellent story and example....!


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Kevin.G said:


> And those that appose lax gun regulations being demanded by gun lobbyists and their supporters, would gladly take that exact same stand.... IF.... gun lobbyists at all levels of society would cease and desist in their attempts to force their beliefs on everyone.
> 
> All of a sudden it's not so simple, huh.... uh oh, here is that totally pesky_ "two sides to every story"_ thing.
> 
> ...


Nice try to reverse that. But gun lovers don't force their gun beliefs on gun control advocates. If gun control advocates did not attempt to control law abiding gun owners then those threads would not exist.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Gun lobbyist have to ask for the extremes because gun owners are always asked to compromise. Gun owners lose little by little with every compromise they make. Eventually rights will be gone completely because gun owners always give in and compromise for the better good. 

Gun grabbers have openly said they will not be happy until guns are completely illegal. They will continue grabbing every little bit they can. Gun grabbers are not willing to give anything back it is always take take take.

Silencers are the perfect example. Why all the restrictions on a device that makes some gun fire hearing safe? Go to Europe and you can buy them off the shelf like candy bars in America. Some areas require them. Why because they make gun fire hearing safe. Yet our gun grabbing politicians fear them because they think they will make guns silent like in the movies. Little do they know it just brings the sound level down to near a jack hammer or jet plane taking off.


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## Acheese11 (Nov 8, 2018)

idk why you didn't pump the gas for her. Better yet, why did you let her get gas somewhere sketchy?


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## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

https://giphy.com/gifs/xIytx7kHpq74c


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> And those that appose lax gun regulations being demanded by gun lobbyists and their supporters, would gladly take that exact same stand.... IF.... gun lobbyists at all levels of society would cease and desist in their attempts to force their beliefs on everyone.
> 
> All of a sudden it's not so simple, huh.... uh oh, here is that totally pesky_ "two sides to every story"_ thing.
> 
> ...


No personal attacks, I just simply disagree with your view about guns.

I agree with your view on punishing people that break gun laws, and also any other law. Our society treats criminals too good, show me where that is coming from gun lobbyists.

I love how gun grabbers say XXX number of people have been stopped from buying firearms because of the background checks but yet how many of them were charged with a crime by trying to buy a firearm when they were prohibited? Very few if any. Show me where background checks when done as intended are not doing their job. Why have stiffer checks for people that want to carry over those that want to only own? It makes no sense.

Are you saying I am not a reasonable and responsible citizen because I want my gun rights protected?

Show me where gun lobbyists are trying to force people that don't want to own guns into owning guns. I guess with my blinders on I have failed to see that.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

I am taking my two nephews to the local range tomorrow, the older one (26) has a bolt action 303 not sure of the make, the younger one (14) will be shooting a 1911, SKS, 223 sniper, S&W 38 special, his brothers 303 and the BMG.... I'll be shooting a Chris Vector 45 and the Evo Scorpion... and of course, the BMG.

So yeah... I really hate guns, right..... only fools assume to know what they don't :laugh: 

Hope y'all have fun with your fear of strangers, the zombie apocalypse or that horde of killer criminals waiting for you just beyond the horizon.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> I am taking my two nephews to the local range tomorrow, the older one (26) has a bolt action 303 not sure of the make, the younger one (14) will be shooting a 1911, SKS, 223 sniper, S&W 38 special, his brothers 303 and the BMG.... I'll be shooting a Chris Vector 45 and the Evo Scorpion... and of course, the BMG.
> 
> So yeah... I really hate guns, right..... only fools assume to know what they don't :laugh:
> 
> Hope y'all have fun with your fear of strangers, the zombie apocalypse or that horde of killer criminals waiting for you just beyond the horizon.


.303 is probably a Lee Enfield. Shoot a .50 BMG every chance I get, never pass on it. Shot everything on your list except the Chris Vector and really no idea what the 223 sniper is. I think of bolt guns when I think sniper, some call standard semiauto AR-15's sinper rifles. Plus personnaly I would not consider the .223 to be a sufficient sniper round because of its limitations in distance and weight.

I guess your comment about fools and fear of strangers, zombies, and killer criminals must be directed at someone else as I don't think I ever brought any of that up.

Anyway have a great time at the range because if some get their way you may never be able to do it again.


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## Mikeoftulsa (Dec 10, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> really no idea what the 223 sniper is. I think of bolt guns when I think sniper, some call standard semiauto AR-15's sinper rifles. Plus personnaly I would not consider the .223 to be a sufficient sniper round because of its limitations in distance and weight.


Was about to post the same thing.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Houston Chronicle article dated September 25, 2014:
> 
> "Francis Gomez saw the white van trailing him one morning earlier this month after leaving his modest three-bedroom home in Spring for his construction job site. An illegal immigrant from El Salvador, he had used a special work authorization to build a life for himself and raise two sons - both U.S. citizens - in Houston, working two jobs to pay his mortgage.
> 
> ...


A source is usually a link to something, so we can get more than just what YOU want us to know about said source...

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...le/Deported-for-2-traffic-tickets-5781824.php
So let's clarify the situation of Francis Gomez. First, his arrest happened in 2014, during President Obama's term.

Next is his status. It wasn't a special work permit, it was officially called a Temporary Protected Status (TPS). This law was meant to be temporary for people escaping from violent countries or natural disasters. As the name suggests, it was meant to be temporary and has to be renewed every single year. As the same article notes, the TPS was never meant to be used as a path to citizenship. It was Francis Gomez' fault for not making permanent moves during the many years that he simply kept renewing a TEMPORARY Protection Status. This law had stipulations for eligibility, mainly, don't get in trouble with the law. He failed to do so and received two misdemeanor charges. He's fortunate that neither were caught until almost 17 years after his first offense, 5 years after his first offense. He would have lost his protected status back then.

With his eligibility revoked, his original deportation order took effect. That's the law. He had 20 years to file for naturalization, yet he did not do it.

He wasn't a legal resident of the united states, he was temporarily allowed to be here as long as he maintained eligibility which he failed to do. That is not the same as a legal resident being deported for being illegal at one point. Once they've gotten their permanent residency or naturalization, their prior status is no more.

His status reverted back to deportation status when he lost his protected status.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> A source is usually a link to something, so we can get more than just what YOU want us to know about said source...
> 
> https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...le/Deported-for-2-traffic-tickets-5781824.php
> So let's clarify the situation of Francis Gomez. First, his arrest happened in 2014, during President Obama's term.
> ...


Nonsense. He had a permit to work here. That permit was revoked because of a couple of traffic violations.

End of story, in my opinion.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Nonsense. He had a permit to work here. That permit was revoked because of a couple of traffic violations.
> 
> End of story, in my opinion.


It is a sad story Christine, but:

1. He chose to ignore his asylum hearing. 
2. He paid for his gf to be brought up via coyotes and for her to enter illegally. He facilitated her breaking the law. That is 2 laws broken. 
3. His license got suspended. He drove under suspension. I know the article says he was waiting to renew it, but licenses don't get suspended because they expire. Driving on an expired license is different than driving under suspension that was 3 laws broken. 
4. The inspection thing. That I believe is civil not criminal, if it is criminal then that law needs changed. In my opinion still 3 laws broke. Not 2, not 4.

He was given protected status. That was his time to straighten his situation out. He ignored it. It sucks. But he broke the law and was well aware when granted protected status to stay out of all trouble. They would of explained this and he would of signed for it.

If he is the model employee and citizen, why did he not renounce his El Salvador citizenship and become a citizen of the United States? He had the time. We don't get to choose which laws we will follow and which we will break. If we speed we get a ticket, we know that is the consequence. He knew he skipped his hearing. He knew he had a deportation order. When TPS was offered he knew to take advantage of it. All he had to do to keep his family together was follow the rules.

Obama has an opportunity to fix this and Obama chose not too. Clinton built the cages immigrants are kept in, not Trump. The pictures of kids in cages were from 2014, when Obama was President not Trump. Trump can't fix this until congress works on it. He can make suggestions and tell Congress what he would like to do, but the president can not submit a bill, the house and the senate have to do that.

Does this suck? Yes. Will it suck when they begin in a week or so to round up illegals and deport them? Yes. But remember these people have been given a chance to comply and have refused. That is not our fault. You can lead an Uber driver to surge but you can't make him accept a ping.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Nonsense. He had a permit to work here. That permit was revoked because of a couple of traffic violations.
> 
> End of story, in my opinion.


He had a Temporary Protected Status. Having thst status has eligibility criteria. No violations. Period. He failed to remain eligible for that TEMPORARY protective status. He had 20 years to make that temporary status permanent, but he didnt. The TEMPORARY protective status was not meant to be used as a path to citizenship and is meant to be, you guessed it, TEMPORARY.

He was never a permanent resident nor had an actual work visa. The form to have TPS is a one page form thats simple and basic, because, it was meant to be temporary.

He isn't being punished for an old crime, hes being punished for a crime he never cleares up. TPS did not make him a legal citizen, it merely deferred his deportation order temporarily based on violance in his home country. He had 20 years to change that temporary protection to permanent resident.

Miles different then Melania Trump and only a biased person cant see that but keep that head in the sand. He's deported and Melania sleeps at night in the white house

#Winning


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> It is a sad story Christine, but:
> 
> 1. He chose to ignore his asylum hearing.
> 2. He paid for his gf to be brought up via coyotes and for her to enter illegally. He facilitated her breaking the law. That is 2 laws broken.
> ...


TLDR


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> TLDR


What a waste of space


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> Mike, I agree with most of what you said, except for this:
> 
> When I was a kid, one of the neighborhood kids lost his father, who was a police officer. While working, he dropped his handgun, which discharged went it hit the ground. He died from the gunshot wound.
> 
> ...


I read a story about a cop who dropped his gun and it discharged. The bullet hit him in the head, this happened in N.Y. I believe.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

U/L guy said:


> I read a story about a cop who dropped his gun and it discharged. The bullet hit him in the head, this happened in N.Y. I believe.


That would be a defective gun. 
I read a story one time about a guy who's brothers uncles nephews sister mothers friends grandmothers lawyers therapists surgeons brothers sister uncles nieces uncles niece uncles sisters dads moms sons brothers sister dads uncle once died while choking on a tic tac.

Let's outlaw tic tacs now.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> That would be a defective gun.


That's nice, but the kid living two blocks from me still lost his father that day.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> That's nice, but the kid living two blocks from me still lost his father that day.


And how many people are killed with cars that malfunction? Appliances? Airplanes? You can't condemn the world for a defective item. A firearm that is in 100% working order will not discharge when dropped, it's a safety part of today's weapons.

Why are you allowing emotion to dictate what rights people should have?



BlueNOX said:


> And how many people are killed with cars that malfunction? Appliances? Airplanes? You can't condemn the world for a defective item. A firearm that is in 100% working order will not discharge when dropped, it's a safety part of today's weapons.
> 
> Why are you allowing emotion to dictate what rights people should have?


 Better question, why am I responding to your emotional blabbering when you can't even be respectful enough to read what is posted in response to you. I'm really finding you more and more in my opinion to be a closed minded person who spends more time on what ifs than reality who simply disrespects anyone who doesn't agree with your view no matter how wrong you are.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> That's nice, but the kid living two blocks from me still lost his father that day.


That's nice, but you make excuses for illegal aliens when they kill Americans.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Why are you allowing emotion to dictate what rights people should have?


I'm not. I'm a supporter of the Second Amendment. My Significant Other is a Life Member of the NRA.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> That's nice, but the kid living two blocks from me still lost his father that day.


If your such a strong supporter of the NRA why are your posts like the one quoted anti-gun? Then pro then anti then pro then.... get the point?

Honestly your all over the place to the point I don't believe you support 2A in any shape manner or form.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> If your such a strong supporter of the NRA why are your posts like the one quoted anti-gun? Then pro then anti then pro then.... get the point?
> 
> Honestly your all over the place to the point I don't believe you support 2A in any shape manner or form.


Because I like an honest discussion, as opposed to trying to "win" at all costs.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Because I like an honest discussion, as opposed to trying to "win" at all costs.


There is no Winning in discussion. There is sharing of ideas and personal views based upon experience, education and data.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> If your such a strong supporter of the NRA why are your posts like the one quoted anti-gun? Then pro then anti then pro then.... get the point?
> 
> Honestly your all over the place to the point I don't believe you support 2A in any shape manner or form.


Everyone is not as extreme as you. You accused me of being "ANTIFA" because I chose not to carry. And I said I have no problem with people carrying.

Usually it's the left that practices identity politics, but if anyone raises any sort of gun issue with you, all we get back is that we're "ANTIFA, gun haters, liberal, uneducated, blah, blah blah".

You, my friend, are the emotional one.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> Everyone is not as extreme as you. You accused me of being "ANTIFA" because I chose not to carry. And I said I have no problem with people carrying.
> 
> Usually it's the left that practices identity politics, but if anyone raises any sort of gun issue with you, all we get back is that we're "ANTIFA, gun haters, liberal, uneducated, blah, blah blah".
> 
> You, my friend, are the emotional one.


You seem very emotional. I've called no one antifa or liberal. If I have please quote.

I find antifa liberals are usually extremely emotional.


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> I've called no one antifa or liberal. If I have please quote.





BlueNOX said:


> Hey Goober, I hear antifa calling you.


This is why you have no credibility.....


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

justaGoober said:


> This is why you have no credibility.....


I said I hear antifa calling YOU. That is NOT calling you a liberal or antifa. Maybe they needed to borrow a cup of sugar?

Don't twist my words. I do know what I do and do not say.

(I used do 3 times in 1 sentence. See that?)


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> I've called no one antifa or liberal. If I have please quote.





BlueNOX said:


> It was your statement not mine. Such a smart liberal. Run along and grab your mask. Antifa is calling.


"Liberal" and "ANTIFA" in the same sentence. Lol!

Again, 0 credibility. You better step away from the keyboard before you break the stupid meter.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

I


justaGoober said:


> "Liberal" and "ANTIFA" in the same sentence. Lol!
> 
> Again, 0 credibility. You better step away from the keyboard before you break the stupid meter.


Again, antifa is calling, not your are antifa. Second one, I said smart liberal, giving you full credit for being well educated. We all know that liberals are complete idiots. Smart liberal is not liberal. Antifa is calling you is not the same as calling you antifa.

So, did they need sugar or was it flour?

It's all in the semantics goober.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

KKKlantiFa


----------



## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> That's nice, but the kid living two blocks from me still lost his father that day.


Cops use to carry 38 cal revolvers with the firing pin located in the hammer, hard pressure from a fall would cause it to discharge, that's why with older revolvers it advised to leave a cylinder empty to place the hammer on.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

U/L guy said:


> Cops use to carry 38 cal revolvers with the firing pin located in the hammer, hard pressure from a fall would cause it to discharge, that's why with older revolvers it advised to leave a cylinder empty to place the hammer on.


Honestly I don't know of any police that still carry revolvers. The 9mm Glock or the 40 cal S&W. Both are semi-automatics.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

U/L guy said:


> Cops use to carry 38 cal revolvers with the firing pin located in the hammer, hard pressure from a fall would cause it to discharge, that's why with older revolvers it advised to leave a cylinder empty to place the hammer on.


That goes back a long way, I have revolvers (some old police issues) from the late 60's and early 70's that all have hammer blocks in them to prevent that from happening.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BlueNOX said:


> Honestly I don't know of any police that still carry revolvers. The 9mm Glock or the 40 cal S&W. Both are semi-automatics.


Very unusual for police to carry revolvers these days, I know one, he retires in about 3 months. Old school police officer with old school revolver. He can out shoot 90% of the officers on the force.


----------



## Lyle (Nov 11, 2015)

Situational Awareness, Don't leave home without it,
Rather have it and not need it that need it and not have it.


----------



## twnFM (Oct 26, 2017)

I go old school Remington R1 1911 .45 with hydra-shock hollow points.


----------



## MissouriTiger (Jun 3, 2019)

I was robbed at gunpoint once when I was young, working overnight in a c-store. At 3 am, he walked in, approached the counter and said, "How'd you like a slug from this 44 in my coat?" I gave him the money in the register. He walked out with a whopping 80-odd-dollars. I had just turned the drawer over shortly before he walked in, so all the cash was in the safe. He was in jail before noon the next day. He didn't actually have a gun, just his hand in his coat pocket (a coat he borrowed for the occasion). I testified in court. He was on parole for some other stupid stunts he had pulled in the past. He wasn't a hardcore criminal. Just a walking mess who did a lot of stupid things and was always in trouble. I'm sure he was a guest of the state for years after that.

I also was jumped by several guys once as a teenager and beaten pretty good. 

I won't say whether I carry or not. It's none of anybody's business.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

MissouriTiger said:


> I was robbed at gunpoint once when I was young, working overnight in a c-store. At 3 am, he walked in, approached the counter and said, "How'd you like a slug from this 44 in my coat?" I gave him the money in the register. He walked out with a whopping 80-odd-dollars. I had just turned the drawer over shortly before he walked in, so all the cash was in the safe. He was in jail before noon the next day. He didn't actually have a gun, just his hand in his coat pocket (a coat he borrowed for the occasion). I testified in court. He was on parole for some other stupid stunts he had pulled in the past. He wasn't a hardcore criminal. Just a walking mess who did a lot of stupid things and was always in trouble. I'm sure he was a guest of the state for years after that.
> 
> I also was jumped by several guys once as a teenager and beaten pretty good.
> 
> I won't say whether I carry or not. It's none of anybody's business.


Keep it that way Bro! Even the gubbermint has no business making us fill out all that paperwork for guns. It has been written in the Constitution in simple, easy to understand terms: "Shall Not Be Infringed".

I lost all my guns in a canoe accident on a lake.


----------



## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

Starting July 1st, 2019, in California, purchasing ammo will require a background check. If you live in California I suggest you buy ammo now. It is on sale almost everywhere but supplies are running out. I bought 20 boxes (1000 rounds) on Sunday. Sounds like a lot, but it is actually just 200 rounds for five different calibers. All FMJ target ammo.


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

Proud as hell to Carry.

Nice work bro, kept it in check without bloodshed


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## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

Z129 said:


> Starting July 1st, 2019, in California, purchasing ammo will require a background check. If you live in California I suggest you buy ammo now. It is on sale almost everywhere but supplies are running out. I bought 20 boxes (1000 rounds) on Sunday. Sounds like a lot, but it is actually just 200 rounds for five different calibers. All FMJ target ammo.


Can't pass a background check?


----------



## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

Karen carpenter said:


> Can't pass a background check?


I will have no problem passing a BG check. But I don't look forward to the hassle of all of this. And I don't like my ammo purchases tracked by the government. You have to first register to be able to qualify for the instant background check required to purchase ammo. It's a whole ordeal. After you're set up it shouldn't be all that bad to purchase ammo. 
But again, I don't like the government compiling such lists.

Here is a FAQ on the subject:

https://www.laxammooc.com/california-ammo-laws-for-2019/


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

Z129 said:


> I will have no problem passing a BG check. But I don't look forward to the hassle of all of this. And I don't like my ammo purchases tracked by the government. You have to first register to be able to qualify for the instant background check required to purchase ammo. It's a whole ordeal. After you're set up it shouldn't be all that bad to purchase ammo.
> But again, I don't like the government compiling such lists.
> 
> Here is a FAQ on the subject:
> ...


It's the same as being in this forum ,their rules you have to follow that's how order works.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Karen carpenter said:


> It's the same as being in this forum ,their rules you have to follow that's how order works.


Not exactly, actually not even close. The forum is private property on a server with a specific owner that sets rules.

The list California is establishing is currently being argued as unconstitutional. The right to bear arms also gives the right to use them without infringement. Ammunition is the actual arm, weapon. The gun is just the tool used to fire it in a controlled environment enabling a predictable path for the ammunition once its discharged.

Are you going to say that your right to sex with your willing partner(s) should be govt controlled? Maybe the govt should mandate a certain number of thrusts per intimate encounter.

Oh no. Gotta stop. Maximum thrusts for the year have been achieved, come back in 2 yrs to finish.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Not exactly, actually not even close. The forum is private property on a server with a specific owner that sets rules.
> 
> The list California is establishing is currently being argued as unconstitutional. The right to bear arms also gives the right to use them without infringement. Ammunition is the actual arm, weapon. The gun is just the tool used to fire it in a controlled environment enabling a predictable path for the ammunition once its discharged.
> 
> ...


I think you missed the point of my post, it's sarcasm. Ignorance is bliss


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Karen carpenter said:


> I think you missed the point of my post, it's sarcasm. Ignorance is bliss


Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize through typed word that you are making jest of gun ownership, defending one self and the second amendment. My bad.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize through typed word that you are making jest of gun ownership, defending one self and the second amendment. My bad.


You still don't get it but that's okay don't try too hard.??


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Karen carpenter said:


> You still don't get it but that's okay don't try too hard.??


Let's review your post. You said:



Karen carpenter said:


> It's the same as being in this forum ,their rules you have to follow that's how order works.


You appear to be saying we have to follow the liberal laws in California.

Now I see the sarcasm. It's liberal sarcasm. Let me guess, Carmel Valley style sarcasm.

See what I did there. That's sarcasm. Your's is not.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Let's review your post. You said:
> 
> You appear to be saying we have to follow the liberal laws in California.
> 
> ...


I say nothing about liberal or conservatism. I will not try to insult anybody. And I love Carmel valley. We bought our house for $325,000 and now its worth 1.3.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Karen carpenter said:


> I say nothing about liberal or conservatism. I will not try to insult anybody. And I love Carmel valley. We bought our house for $325,000 and now its worth 1.3.


Could care less about your house. Just displaying sarcasm style of Carmel Valley in comparison to the real world.

Actually, your actions do. We know your a liberal, it's okay to admit it. Admitting your a liberal is the very first step to escaping liberalism.

Just go to downtown Carmel Valley, stand in front of the courthouse and say: I am a liberal. I know it's a bad thing to be and I will work hard in my life going forward to fight the fascist liberal tendencies all of you are forcing on me.

Just keep repeating that. A bullhorn will work well to drive home how your seeking a cure to liberalism.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Could care less about your house. Just displaying sarcasm style of Carmel Valley in comparison to the real world.
> 
> Actually, your actions do. We know your a liberal, it's okay to admit it. Admitting your a liberal is the very first step to escaping liberalism.
> 
> ...


You mean like this?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

This is a true 911 call of a woman who had to shoot while waiting for police. The shot is fired at 10:21 and police finally arrive on scene approx 26 minutes into the call. Listen to it before you decide if guns should be banned or not.

Warning: this call is real and deals with before and after the shot is fired.


----------



## wn100804 (Jun 9, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a true 911 call of a woman who had to shoot while waiting for police. The shot is fired at 10:21 and police finally arrive on scene approx 26 minutes into the call. Listen to it before you decide if guns should be banned or not.
> 
> Warning: this call is real and deals with before and after the shot is fired.


When seconds count . . . call the cops.


----------



## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

BlueNOX said:


> Let's review your post. You said:
> 
> You appear to be saying we have to follow the liberal laws in California.
> 
> ...


Her comment was directed to me. I understood what she was saying. Don't try to read anything else into it.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

BlueNOX said:


> Could care less about your house. Just displaying sarcasm style of Carmel Valley in comparison to the real world.
> 
> Actually, your actions do. We know your a liberal, it's okay to admit it. Admitting your a liberal is the very first step to escaping liberalism.
> 
> ...


You sure read a lot into my post that wasn't there. No wonder why the Russians were so successful in their campaign for the conservative vote. I personally don't endorse communism or fascism. I believe in integrity which can be had by liberals or conservatives. Russians do like to target people that label other people without forethought, you seem to fit their target audience, congratulations.


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Could care less about your house. Just displaying sarcasm style of Carmel Valley in comparison to the real world.
> 
> Actually, your actions do. We know your a liberal, it's okay to admit it. Admitting your a liberal is the very first step to escaping liberalism.
> 
> ...


you seriously have issues lol



Karen carpenter said:


> You sure read a lot into my post that wasn't there. No wonder why the Russians were so successful in their campaign for the conservative vote. I personally don't endorse communism or fascism. I believe in integrity which can be had by liberals or conservatives. Russians do like to target people that label other people without forethought, you seem to fit their target audience, congratulations.


Agree that both parties can have integrity .. nobody on the internet nowadays can joke or even talk without pulling something out of the political box ..

what a shit show ..


----------



## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

Unfortunately, this is the type of people who choose to own guns. They’re not in defense mode, they are in offense mode.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

ZenUber said:


> Unfortunately, this is the type of people who choose to own guns. They're not in defense mode, they are in offense mode.


Really, what do you know about the types of different personalities? Guns are owned by people of all walks of life. From the homeless to the super rich. All races. All genders and all orientations.

Law abiding gun owners are never in offense mode with their weapon. It's a defensive tool, same as any other. That's lime saying an offensive linebacker is in offensive mode when the ball snaps. Defensive mode to defend his quartback.


----------



## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

You’re in offense right now. Gun owners who play defense never talk about it. You never know they have one. Thanks for proving my case.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

ZenUber said:


> You're in offense right now. Gun owners who play defense never talk about it. You never know they have one. Thanks for proving my case.


So you make a statement, I replay and that's offense? Hmmm

Perhaps you should buy a dictionary and look up the definitions.

Gun owners carry as a proactive measure to enable them to take reactive steps in the event a threat appears. Proactive defense is not offense.


----------



## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

no such thing as a "fascist liberal"... these terms are mutually exclusive

here are dictionary definitions

lib·er·al
adjective: *liberal*

1.​
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.​ favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms
(in a political context) Favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform​

*fascism*
noun
fas·cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi- \
*Definition of fascism*

1often capitalized *: *a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2*: *a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial controlearly instances of army fascism and brutality- J. W. Aldridge


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> no such thing as a "fascist liberal"... these terms are mutually exclusive


I'm left of center politically. But I emphatically do not agree with what you said.

You're entitled to your own definitions. Mine aren't the same as yours.

But if you look at that second definition of fascism, you'll see how they can match up. That is... it's possible to be dictatorial while promoting socialist economic policies.

For the record, I may be left of center politically, but I am a capitalist through and through.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Kevin.G said:


> no such thing as a "fascist liberal"... these terms are mutually exclusive
> 
> here are dictionary definitions
> 
> ...


Antifa. They are a group that is liberal, claiming with their name to be anti-fascist. However they utilize fascist rules to beat down fascism. Have you seen the video of Andrew NGO? Gay Asian Conservative journalist who was physically beaten by liberal Antifa members in Portland? Liberals are fascist, they refuse to allow anyone with views outside their own to speak, gather or pretty much anything else. They utilize violence to shut down the conservative right on any and all topics that the right tries to discuss.

Look at AOC, she is calling Nancy Pelosi racist for not agreeing with her views. Basically telling Pelosi to shut up and agree with her way or she will silence her with false allegations. Honestly I consider them both racist but that's another discussion.

Yes Liberla Fascist is an oxymoron that actually does exist. Antifa is your example.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Who the hell made you Pope of this dump, "Omnipotent One"?
> 
> 
> No SSRIs here, Dr Dopey.
> You?


https://www.9news.com/mobile/articl...egins/73-58108c96-d444-4096-bd1b-edb04a155f3e


----------



## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Well what do ya know?

https://www.9news.com/mobile/articl...uilty/73-79272a28-f523-47b6-84c6-8aa525c8aa1e


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

OMG GO! said:


> Well what do ya know?
> 
> https://www.9news.com/mobile/articl...uilty/73-79272a28-f523-47b6-84c6-8aa525c8aa1e


"The fact remains that the shooting could have been prevented if Uber had enforced one of its cardinal rules: Drivers are not allowed to have a gun in the car," said Corboy & Demetrio Partner Francis Patrick Murphy. "Hancock routinely violated this rule and Uber failed to enforce its policy.

The passenger was 4 times the legal limit ..all the driver had to do was pull the guy out of his car


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

dauction said:


> "The fact remains that the shooting could have been prevented if Uber had enforced one of its cardinal rules: Drivers are not allowed to have a gun in the car," said Corboy & Demetrio Partner Francis Patrick Murphy. "Hancock routinely violated this rule and Uber failed to enforce its policy.
> 
> The passenger was 4 times the legal limit ..all the driver had to do was pull the guy out of his car


Its legal and within your rights to carry a loaded pistol in your car in Denver. Since we are 1099 ubers "rule" is not enforceable and they can be sued for trying to. Being 1099 means uber has no say, only the driver does when it comes to "weapons policy", legally speaking.



dauction said:


> The passenger was 4 times the legal limit ..all the driver had to do was pull the guy out of his car


Maybe so, maybe not. Thats an assumption.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

OMG GO! said:


> Its legal and within your rights to carry a loaded pistol in your car in Denver. Since we are 1099 ubers "rule" is not enforceable and they can be sued for trying to. Being 1099 means uber has no say, only the driver does when it comes to "weapons policy", legally speaking.


Uber drivers playing Lawyer SMH ?‍♀


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> Uber drivers playing Lawyer SMH ?‍♀


Speaking about yourself? I mean, what 1099 is very clear. This subject has been broken down many times. Above your head tho?

Should i link the law in Denver for carrying in the car or can you handle that?

Fyi:
1. the law > what uber says
2. Uber cannot set certain rules for non employees aka independent contractors (1099). This is why they lost the lawsuit over acceptance rates and why they dont deactivate me for canceling between 65%-80% of the requests i initially accept.
3. The law in Denver is clear about whats legal concerning carrying in your car. You dont need a law degree to understand this, just basic reading comprehension. A concealed carry course in denver will also break this down legally speaking. Not just whats legal or not in carrying, but also your response in using the firearm or not.


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## 4000 rides (Feb 9, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> This is a non-Uber incident but a good example of why I choose to carry as I do.
> 
> Yesterday, ex-wife messaged me. She is at work and her minivan has one tire low and a nail in a 2nd tire. Really, it needs a whole set of tires. She can't leave work until 7, shop closes at 6 and asks if I will help by taking it to get the tires. I oblige her.
> 
> ...


Calm. Intelligent. Non-confrontational. Responsible. Well done! There was an Uber driver who drew a pistol to protect someone earlier this year, and his rideshare company did *not* deactivate him... No one wants to _say _it's okay, probably because of liability issues, but legal and justified use or brandishment probably would be tolerated.


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## ZAutobahn (Jul 17, 2019)

Kevin.G said:


> hhhmm... BlueNOX.... just wondering.... what if he showed you a bigger gun in the exact same manner as you showed him your gun... what then?


I think this would have led to a situation of mutual detente, a very small scale version of the Soviets and the U.S. relationship throughout the Cold War. Mutual assured destruction likely would have kept things peaceful.



OldBay said:


> Acting as if the "real scum of the earth" don't have guns.
> 
> If the guy as bad as OP says, he's lucky he didn't get popped in back of head.
> 
> ...


I think you're delusional.



Karen carpenter said:


> It's the same as being in this forum ,their rules you have to follow that's how order works.


It is not the same. We do not have a constitutional right to be on this forum. We do have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms (and that applies to the ammunition for those arms as well).


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