# Lyft vs Uber



## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

Ok, so many drivers talking Lyft vs Uber as the competition of the year in ridesharing. Many talk how Uber is lowering fares to rock bottom to crush Lyft. It has been mentioned, maybe not here, but pretty sure it was, how Lyft is priced to get market share from Uber. Yet, there are many drivers from all over the US where Uber and Lyft share markets who tell how they use BOTH apps while driving.
At first, I thought how smart that strategy was. Alas, since Uber started having their luxury assets pick up UberX calls, I have realized something. If Uber and Lyft are in a price war, and are lowering prices to attract customers from each other, who is it really effecting? The smart guys in the car with both apps running. How ridiculous does it look that both apps offer low end pricing, yet you get the same driver when ordering a car? The only person really getting hurt here is the driver that is competing against himself (or herself if you rather).

Now for the discussion, please tell me how wrong I am, or how insightful and magnificent I truly am, or what ever...
Either way, Uber on, or do you even Lyft?


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

timmyolo said:


> The only person really getting hurt here is the driver that is competing against himself (or herself if you rather).


Would running one app and only getting half the trips be "smarter"?
Not sure what praise you might be expecting for this brilliant observation. Drivers have know for quite some time that the price "wars" between Uber and Lyft are actually hurting the drivers and not either company or the customers.


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## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

ya ya, still wanted to bring direct discussion on my brilliant and original observation. And you get points for being first at noticing it was brilliant.


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## Tommy Tours (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm a multi app. user in NJ, Jersey City, Bayonne and Hoboken area. The reason I added Lyft was to try and fill in the voids from Uber. there have been times 2 hours plus of no work. Using Lyft I felt if I get lucky and pick a few jobs in between it keeps me going. So far Lyft has been slow for me I drive during the day. My complaint is the drivers app. it needs to have more time to except trips I,ve hit the screen a few times and nothing happens next minute I refused a trip. No I didn't. Today was the first day that I did more trips on Lyft then Uber and better jobs. I think both concepts are great.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

The point you raise in terms of winners and losers in the Uber vs Lyft price war falls partially under the umbrella of Nash's game theory. It states that when competitors act in their own self interests, in this case by competing on price, they will both end up losing out. It's muddied a little by the fact that cab companies aren't playing the game, though.


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

elelegido said:


> The point you raise in terms of winners and losers in the Uber vs Lyft price war falls partially under the umbrella of Nash's game theory. It states that when competitors act in their own self interests, in this case by competing on price, they will both end up losing out. It's muddied a little by the fact that cab companies aren't playing the game, though.


What you are saying is interesting, that both competitors (Uber and Lyft) would end up losing out.

But in this case, both competitors are trying to fight each other by using the drivers as carnage, while they keep a good part of their earnings intact, not competing on them. What do I mean ? No price war on the portion of the fare where the drivers don't get a cent of it, the $1 fee per ride. As they keep earning that $1 for every ride, they can continue screwing the drivers bringing the "rest of" the fare to practically zero, and safeguard their interest. So the Nash game in this case has more complexity than just the 2 players and the taxicabs. The drivers, and Uber and Lyft willing to totally sacrifice them, is the added dimension.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

uberdriver said:


> What you are saying is interesting, that both competitors (Uber and Lyft) would end up losing out.
> 
> But in this case, both competitors are trying to fight each other by using the drivers as carnage, while they keep a good part of their earnings intact, not competing on them. What do I mean ? No price war on the portion of the fare where the drivers don't get a cent of it, the $1 fee per ride. As they keep earning that $1 for every ride, they can continue screwing the drivers bringing the "rest of" the fare to practically zero, and safeguard their interest. So the Nash game in this case has more complexity than just the 2 players and the taxicabs. The drivers, and Uber and Lyft willing to totally sacrifice them, is the added dimension.


That's covered by supply side economics I.e. how much supply will decrease as cost price (in this case of wages) is pushed lower. The companies will have to balance the rising demand brought about by lower fares against falling supply due to wages going lower. Eventually they will find out where the equilibrium point is. This is why fares are dropped gradually over multiple price drops, so they can measure the impact on driver supply and not suddenly create unserviceable levels of demand.


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

elelegido said:


> That's covered by supply side economics I.e. how much supply will decrease as cost price (in this case of wages) is pushed lower. The companies will have to balance the rising demand brought about by lower fares against falling supply due to wages going lower. Eventually they will find out where the equilibrium point is. This is why fares are dropped gradually over multiple price drops, so they can measure the impact on driver supply and not suddenly create unserviceable levels of demand.


You didn't get the central point: Uber and Lyft are fighting a price war at the drivers' expense, while protecting their own interest. They are not cutting their protected income, the $1 per ride fee. As they keep that intact, they can keep on cutting the per mile fare, sacrificing the drivers but keeping their own safe revenues intact. What are the (multiple) cuts that have taken place on the safety fees ? Nilch, nada.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

uberdriver said:


> You didn't get the central point: Uber and Lyft are fighting a price war at the drivers' expense, while protecting their own interest. They are not cutting their protected income, the $1 per ride fee. As they keep that intact, they can keep on cutting the per mile fare, sacrificing the drivers but keeping their own safe revenues intact. What are the (multiple) cuts that have taken place on the safety fees ? Nilch, nada.


I get the point. You're saying that with decreases in the per-mile rate charged to customers but with no change in the fixed "safety" fee, drivers' per-mile revenue is falling faster than the per-mile revenue of the companies. You are correct.


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## Ubererx (Oct 14, 2014)

What if lyft raise their fares ... What would happen then .... Uber and lyft are copy pasting each other.. lyft raise their fairs ubererx will transform to lyfterpinktach


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

The wishful thinking that if Lyft dies Uber will raise the rates
is just that, wishful thinking.
The rates will only rise if there will be a shortage of drivers.
That might happen if the economy will start to beat again.... 
but I wouldn't count on it anytime soon.... and by then Google cars will be the 
new thing.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

The best thing by far about Lyft Line is that when you arrive at the pickup and click Arrive, a countdown timer appears in the app, starting at 1 minute 30 seconds. A message appears telling you that if the passenger has not got in the car before the timer hits 0:00 you are to drive off and leave them. Love it! Uber, take note.

I have images in my mind of idiots running after my car after 0:00 trying to catch up. Can't wait!


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

elelegido said:


> The best thing by far about Lyft Line is that when you arrive at the pickup and click Arrive, a countdown timer appears in the app, starting at 1 minute 30 seconds. A message appears telling you that if the passenger has not got in the car before the timer hits 0:00 you are to drive off and leave them. Love it! Uber, take note.
> 
> I have images in my mind of idiots running after my car after 0:00 trying to catch up. Can't wait!


The question is: If the 90 seconds pass, the timer is at zero and you leave, does the passenger necessarily get charged ?

If that is not always the case, then I don't see how it would be so great to have driven 10-15 minutes wasting gas and wear and tear on your car, and then be happy just because the slow moving passenger gets left stranded. It may feel personally satisfactory to leave the passenger stranded for being inconsiderate, but I don't care too much about emotional stuff, I want to be compensated for the wasted gas, wear and tear and my time. Hopefully the answer is that if the passenger that doesn't show up at 90 seconds he is ALWAYS charged (I don't want excuses like Uber that there is no charge when the passenger does this kind of things for the first time).


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

You get a $5 cancelation fee, according to Lyft. And the second rider is supposed to be along the first's route or close to it so not much gas or time wasted if #2 cancels


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## Ubererx (Oct 14, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> The wishful thinking that if Lyft dies Uber will raise the rates
> is just that, wishful thinking.
> The rates will only rise if there will be a shortage of drivers.
> That might happen if the economy will start to beat again....
> ...


Google cars will not be on the road for at least another 25 years .. in limited areas.... If u r betting on that happening soon .. I strongly abvice u to vote for queen Victoria as our next president


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

Ubererx said:


> Google cars will not be on the road for at least another 25 years .. in limited areas.... If u r betting on that happening soon .. I strongly abvice u to vote for queen Victoria as our next president


I think that best estimates are significantly less than 25 years. More like 7-10 years. I will look for that type of info and post back when I can.

As to Queen Victoria, may be she would have done a better job as President than the last few presidents (one Republican and one Democrat) that we have had.


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## Ubererx (Oct 14, 2014)

uberdriver said:


> I think that best estimates are significantly less than 25 years. More like 7-10 years. I will look for that type of info and post back when I can.
> 
> As to Queen Victoria, may be she would have done a better job as President than the last few presidents (one Republican and one Democrat) that we have had.[/Q
> I will vote for borat in the next election... So he can push Travis to ask north Korea for political and economic asylum


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## Ubererx (Oct 14, 2014)

I will vote for borat in the next election so he can force Travis to seek economic asylum in north Korea


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

Ubererx said:


> I will vote for borat in the next election so he can force Travis to seek economic asylum in north Korea


Ok, if we can't get Borat as the next President, I would at least love him doing a movie piece in which he pings an Uber driver and takes him for a ride on camera.


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## Fredo (Oct 9, 2014)

Ok...technology wise...here is what I think...
When you do a trip with uber, you can tell how much the ride was for as soon as you end the trip (90% of time)

With lyft, it took them two to three days to load fares. I find that odd that you can't see the fare once you push drop off.

With, uber when you go through the tolls, it automatically recognize it and refund you
With lyft...well last week I did 7 trips and I had to pay 5 times out of pocket thinking that I would just get reimbursed, but did not. Anyone knows a best practice... ? I just ordered an EZ pass but I've been paid last week out of pocket and pay by plate (Tobin bridge if you leave in MA)

However with lyft I like the fact that the ride started automatically once you get to the pick up location and press arrive


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## Tommy Tours (Sep 19, 2014)

The Lyft toll process sucks, I have to look at my ezpass circle tolls write what jobs, scan and then e-mail E-mail says we re forwarding it to who gives a crap. All I know my tolls are over 80.00 and the two today brings it to about 100.


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## Fredo (Oct 9, 2014)

Tommy Tours said:


> The Lyft toll process sucks, I have to look at my ezpass circle tolls write what jobs, scan and then e-mail E-mail says we re forwarding it to who gives a crap. All I know my tolls are over 80.00 and the two today brings it to about 100.


Yeah it really sucks. I email them and the rep email be back saying that i have to send them receipt of the toll and name of the passenger. I live in MA and i paid cash with no receipt and one pay by plate. and not only the toll sucks, i go back online, they don't send report of the ride right away, [takes them days] and when they do, I don't see the passenger name and ID# listed on the report. It feels like you have to have a notepad and pen [so not convenient]

I guess ill take a loss on last week toll


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