# Vehicle depreciation vs earned income. Not adding up!



## Debra Rey (Apr 18, 2017)

I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Look at the bright side. No Uber driver should ever owe taxes!


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## Debra Rey (Apr 18, 2017)

The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Putting 60k on your vehicle in less then a year is a full time fare for hire vehicle. You should of made enough to triple up on your payments. Rule of thumb in this profession; Never use a vehicle for full time fare for hire that you can't pay off in 36 months.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


The problem is most Uber drivers don't do that math until it's too late.


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## Debra Rey (Apr 18, 2017)

Well heck, that makes a lot of sense. If only I had the discretionary income so that I could triple my payments, pay rent, insurance, etc..... $10 an hour is not doable. I feel I'm hustling backwards.

Thanks guys I'm done venting.


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

The idea is. Try to make $1= mile

After Uber/Lyft takeaway. 

So, after driving 30k miles you should have made enough to pay for the car. 

Even after paying bills, extra cash should go to paying off the car. 

For example. I paid $16k for my car. I figured after 32,000 miles, my car should be paid for. 

It's all math. Uber is not a good job for many. It just doesn't add up. Buying a $35k Prius is not always a wise investment. You will never make up the difference in gas savings. 

I saw this guy driving a $70k dueully. The truck gets 15mpg and cost $60k. That is a losing proposition. Hopefully the guy is driving to pay for some quick emergency bills.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

I just came back from filing my taxes after my first year of driving Uber.

I know it has been said many times on this forum but it never sinks in until we experience personally. After calculating depreciation and fuel and fees and tolls and...everything else...I would be better off at Starbucks or McDonald's.

_That_'s the math.


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## Delivery Mr.Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

All smart drivers have upgrade to uber black, or driving for the government to picking the elderly . Most uber driers quit in the first 6 months because they realized it is not worth. The rest of active drivers are broke and has no money to fix the rotors brake and new tires.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Here is what I tell people......

I don't know what your market is like. But if it won't support your lifestyle and pay off your vehicle, you might want to reconsider this line of work.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

If you drive an older model car that's paid off with relatively low maintenance expenses then you can eke out a modest profit Ubering. And the flexibility makes it preferable to a part time job at Starbucks. No boss. No schedule. No 6am calls to come in and cover somebody's shift. Yep, Ubering definitely has its perks.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Debra Rey said:


> how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


By using the standard mileage deduction to reduce your taxable income... how much did you earn driving 60,000 miles?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


You need to view your vehicle from a business standpoint. Even though the ACV may only be a certain amount the amount of revenue the vehicle can generate is much more. I'm currently operating a '15 Escalade. With the high miles I've accumulated over the past two years I would guess my ACV is only about $30k. However I know in the next two years I will make $170k-$180k operating my vehicle. After that I will sell it and buy a newer model. It will be my 5th vehicle in this industry.
Coachman said it the best. You must know what your getting into before you get into it.


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## Recoup (Jan 30, 2017)

You can't dig your way out of a hole. Start looking for other work! (Or try to find ways to maximize your $/mile, which is very market-dependent) But seriously, if you're making $10/hour (= 50¢ a mile?) then you are losing money--so stop before you end up owing $14k on a car that's worth $5k.


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## CelebDriver (Feb 25, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


Pay off your car over the next couple years if you keep driving. Do the math and assume you have 24 months left in your car. That is about $700/month. That is your true car payment along with oil, tires, etc....

If you can't do that, you need to look for something else to do. I have a 6 year plan but I am driving part time. If you do the math, the answer is there. The hard part is getting the heart to follow.

Good luck!


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Don't use a 2013 car for Uber. Cheapest car you can get away with. You can't depreciate that which is already depreciated, so better to buy an old Hyundai Sonata for 4 or 5 thousand and drive that until you can't anymore.

But being you already have and now have a car worth $10K (resale value) you could keep driving it. No reason you can't put 100K more miles on that car and you'll make $60-100K doing it, most of it tax free. But you have to drive a little more strategically because $10/hr isn't really good enough. Maybe try changing your shifts and locations.

You could also consider trading it in now for something more efficient and cheaper and drive that instead. Even with the payments on the shortage refinanced and added to payments on a cheap used car you'd be paying less per month and have lower expenses for the same income.


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

Driving a paid off car helps too. Your current car has lost a lot of value already, so it would make sense to continue with it.
If you aren't already, start tracking your income on a $/mile. $/mile tracks closer to your expenses.
Go to KBB.com figure the vehicle's value if it had another 60,000 miles on it. Divide that difference by 60,000 to figure out a rough estimate of the depreciation.
Divide 60,000 by your mileage. That tells you your cost of gas.
Add insurance cost, maintenance and tires divied by 60,000.

All together that gives you an estimate of your cost/mile. You ALWAYS want to beat that number working.


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## CvilleUber (Aug 29, 2016)

We're all missing the main point here - you shouldn't keep going if you can only make $10/hr. That's below minimum wage in some states now. 

Second, but also important point: Now you're devaluing your car faster than you can pay it off.

Lastly - I owed taxes last year for my Uber driving... part time gig, about $200/night with less than 100 miles (college town with lots of trips less than a mile). I certainly pay less taxes for my income than that part-time McD's worker, but be careful saying every Uber driver doesn't pay taxes.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Putting 60k on your vehicle in less then a year is a full time fare for hire vehicle. You should of made enough to triple up on your payments. Rule of thumb in this profession; Never use a vehicle for full time fare for hire that you can't pay off in 36 months.


You shouldn't really buy ANY vehicle you can't pay off in 3 years. If you get really cheap financing then it may make sense to go ahead and finance for longer, but you should be ABLE to make what the payments would be if it were for 3 years. If not, you can't really afford the car.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

uberlyfting123 said:


> The idea is. Try to make $1= mile
> 
> After Uber/Lyft takeaway.
> 
> So, after driving 30k miles you should have made enough to pay for the car.


Is this really that viable of a plan?

For every paid mile that she drives, probably has at least 1 unpaid mile driving to find the passengers or driving back.

Have to average $2.50 a mile for the compensable miles


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Is this really that viable of a plan?
> 
> For every paid mile that she drives, probably has at least 1 unpaid mile driving to find the passengers or driving back.
> 
> Have to average $2.50 a mile for the compensable miles


If you're careful about accepting rides that won't happen. There's usually no reason to drive back empty, just stay where you are for the next ping. Eventually you have to go home but that's only once a day. There have been times I've shut down early because a ride took me home and it wouldn't be worth it to stay online for a half hour more given I would have to deadhead back.


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## CvilleUber (Aug 29, 2016)

Funny - because 50% of my rides are <1 mile, my $/mile is pretty high. Unfortunately, that doesn't equate to $/hr - because I have a lot of riders to get in and out of the car (decreasing miles/hour).

Point being - trying to get to $/mile is probably a bad game. Decrease your driving while not getting paid (only drive without passengers if you ended up in a horrible area), drive when demand is high. That's the only two things within your control for the most part.


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

There is no way in some zones to hit $2.50 a mile. I have never even come close to that. In Portland where I live, $1 earned a mile is a good day. Yesterday, I drive 190 miles and made $200. I'm good.


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## JD352 (Apr 17, 2017)

If your doing this as a part time gig (like me), I don't actually look to making much profit. Ideally, my plan is I wanted to take home 12k a year and owe nothing in taxes for it. If your doing this as a full-time gig, you need to treat it more like a business and make it profitable. It's nice being your own boss, but laying out your expenses and profits for the month and having a goal at certain months you could have caught yourself before you came to this realization it wasn't working out financially. 

If you want to keep doing this, I recommend setting up a plan. If your continuing to not hit your goals, it's probably time to look for something else.


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## Delivery Mr.Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

Uber gig is only good as a payday loan, you only drive on the day you need money.you will lose money if you drive everyday. I have study algebra mathematic level 3 .

Example: drivers spent 5 minutes and 1 mile to a pick up location =free
Drive a rider from a - b for $9 trip
$9 - minus 3minutes of waiting time,minus gas,and other cost =net $6

$6 minus half an hour sitting to waiting for the next rider.

Any business that said be your own boss is a scam business.


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

So far I have seen NOBODY factor in unpaid commute miles if they were working a regular job when they involve depreciation due to miles. I did a guess estimate that she had 35k miles if she worked at a regular job. The value difference was about $2,600. We need more info from her to determine if it was worth it or not.


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


10 bucks an hour gross?? Dang, I would never drive for that little.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You shouldn't really buy ANY vehicle you can't pay off in 3 years. If you get really cheap financing then it may make sense to go ahead and finance for longer, but you should be ABLE to make what the payments would be if it were for 3 years. If not, you can't really afford the car.


At the rate she is going she needs to buy a car every 2 years, assuming she actually bought a Hyundai that does not start falling apart after 100k miles.



Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


It sounds like you do this full time according to the mileage you put on. Keep making payments BUT set aside $200 (at least) every week for 25 weeks and once you get to $5,000 start looking for a cash car that you can hopefully drive for a year but at least 25 weeks without any major problems, while continuing to save $200 every week.

Cash cars are the only way to go in this business.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Trebor said:


> Cash cars are the only way to go in this business.


Clean, cheap cash cars with high miles and low maintenance. I drive an immaculate 2008 PT Cruiser with a book value of about $2,300.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> Uber gig is only good as a payday loan, you only drive on the day you need money.you will lose money if you drive everyday. I have study algebra mathematic level 3 .
> 
> Example: drivers spent 5 minutes and 1 mile to a pick up location =free
> Drive a rider from a - b for $9 trip
> ...


I disagree. You shouldn't drive if there isn't a surge. During the down times you should keep 2 food delivery apps open, either Caviar, Grubhub, Doordash or Postmates. Personally I prefer Cavy and Dash. It's about maximizing your hourly rate and not just aimlessly driving around hoping for Uber or Lyft fair at base.


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## twerkyo.....UBERRRRR (Oct 13, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Clean, cheap cash cars with high miles and low maintenance. I drive an immaculate 2008 PT Cruiser with a book value of about $2,300.


I'm surprised those things aren't given away these days


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Clean, cheap cash cars with high miles and low maintenance. I drive an immaculate 2008 PT Cruiser with a book value of about $2,300.


How many miles does that chrysler have? I have not heard of high mileage chryslers.

But yes. Your doing it right.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Not to be insulting, but this is math you should have done prior to doing rideshare, or signing a note on an expensive new car.

Wanna know why I only do this part time and using a car that I paid cash for? It's because I did that math before ever signing up.

There's not much you can do now, except get a better job. Nothing will improve until you do.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


You are driving 1000 miles a week or more, at this rate you will have a major car repair in the next year and then you will need to junk it and get another car. You should figure out how to trade it in or get rid of it and buy a $4K 2008 compact 4 door to do Uber.

For now every time you make $100 instant pay and send $50 or more to your car payment.

The good thing is your earnings are tax free. The bad thing is you are probably broke and driving your car into the ground.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


UNSUSTAINABLE !
QUIT SUBSIDISING UBER WITH A CAR YOU CANT AFFORD TO REPLACE DRIVING FOR THEM !
Losing proposition.
NO NEED TO TIP !

UBER DEPRICIATES DRIVERS !

Uber must learn to compensate drivers FAIRLY !
OR STEP ASIDE FOR A COMPANY THAT WILL.

NO NEED TO TIP !


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

If I were going upside down on a car loan, I'd work extra hours to pay down the gap.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


That might pose a real problem to you in the future.

When you borrowed the money to buy the car, did the finance company know that you were going to use it for commercial purposes? You are hurting the value of the security of their collateral with your usage. You may want to take a look at your note on this.


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## Tippy711 (Apr 14, 2017)

It's only about five grand to replace the engine in your car. I would work on putting $2500 a year ($48 a week) aside for two years for that purpose. There rest of the car should still be inn good condition so you can reset it back to zero miles.
$1 a mile on uber x. You would have to live in the city where you could just walk out your door and get rides instantly. Working outside an urban area ( the burbs) that's not likely to happen. Most I get on Uber x is .45 cents a mile. Not that good but it still falls under the standard mile deduction of .55 cents so no taxes paid yet (two years running) if your making $1 a mile your gonna have to pay taxes on the other .45 cents a mile.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


My numbers are yours, exactly, and I'm racing to find another job. I did UberSUV for a spell, but the lease killed me in the winter months, and I've been thinking about going back to SUVland, but's it's sitting around for 2 or 3 hours between runs ( though the average run is 50 bucks ). 
yeah, there's a number of lawsuits happening about this. Jump in on the class action suit, if you can find it ( I forgot the link ). Hopefully, they'll win the suit and pay us for our expenses. _The hard, cold, truth is that you are breaking even._ You're merely converting auto equity into cash, living on it, and paying off a loan. It's insanity. Uber is robbing drivers of auto equity, and making them to work to do it.

If the rate were what local taxis were charging, all would be well, we'd just compete on service. But, they don't want us to make money, for some incredibly stupid reason.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

MadePenniesToday said:


> So far I have seen NOBODY factor in unpaid commute miles if they were working a regular job when they involve depreciation due to miles. I did a guess estimate that she had 35k miles if she worked at a regular job. The value difference was about $2,600. We need more info from her to determine if it was worth it or not.


They are not deductible.


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## DollarStoreChauffeur (Sep 12, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Uber is a scam which only benefits Uber and the rider. That being said, that is a lot of mileage in a year even while anting for Uber. My advice is to quite while you're behind. I quit after just a few months when I recognized it's a scam. Uber doesn't deserve drivers and riders don't deserve drivers.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

CvilleUber said:


> Funny - because 50% of my rides are <1 mile, my $/mile is pretty high. Unfortunately, that doesn't equate to $/hr - because I have a lot of riders to get in and out of the car (decreasing miles/hour).
> 
> Point being - trying to get to $/mile is probably a bad game. Decrease your driving while not getting paid (only drive without passengers if you ended up in a horrible area), drive when demand is high. That's the only two things within your control for the most part.


and turn the app off in the horrible area so you don't get a ping from there.


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## Debra Rey (Apr 18, 2017)

Thanks guys!! I have read all your post and found some great ideas. Unfortunately quitting is not an option.



Lee239 said:


> You are driving 1000 miles a week or more, at this rate you will have a major car repair in the next year and then you will need to junk it and get another car. You should figure out how to trade it in or get rid of it and buy a $4K 2008 compact 4 door to do Uber.
> 
> For now every time you make $100 instant pay and send $50 or more to your car payment.
> 
> The good thing is your earnings are tax free. The bad thing is you are probably broke and driving your car into the ground.


Yes my car is being driven into the ground. I need 4 new tires I cant afford to buy.


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

Where do you drive?


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## Debra Rey (Apr 18, 2017)

CelebDriver said:


> Pay off your car over the next couple years if you keep driving. Do the math and assume you have 24 months left in your car. That is about $700/month. That is your true car payment along with oil, tires, etc....
> 
> If you can't do that, you need to look for something else to do. I have a 6 year plan but I am driving part time. If you do the math, the answer is there. The hard part is getting the heart to follow.
> 
> Good luck!


Yes. that's the new 24 month plan. Quitting is not an option at this point. Thanks!!



Tysmith95 said:


> Where do you drive?


Gwinnett- Loganville, Snellville, etc.


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> Gwinnett- Loganville, Snellville, etc.


The issue is that I've never heard of those places. You need to drive in a big city to earn money from Uber.

Looking at Google it looks like that's near Atlanta. Why don't you drive in Atlanta and not the distant suburbs?


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> Gwinnett- Loganville, Snellville, etc.


Where are those places? Does it ever surge there?

Ahh.... I looked it up. You're near Atlanta. Start charting the surges. Go there and work surge rates. That's your salvation.


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## Debra Rey (Apr 18, 2017)

Jagent said:


> Where are those places? Does it ever surge there?
> 
> Ahh.... I looked it up. You're near Atlanta. Start charting the surges. Go there and work surge rates. That's your salvation.


Yep, that's my plan to get to the promise land!


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## TomP (May 3, 2015)

MadePenniesToday said:


> So far I have seen NOBODY factor in unpaid commute miles if they were working a regular job when they involve depreciation due to miles. I did a guess estimate that she had 35k miles if she worked at a regular job. The value difference was about $2,600. We need more info from her to determine if it was worth it or not.





Driving and Driven said:


> They are not deductible.


I assume that all miles driven related to Uber are legitimately deductible. Only the personal miles are not deductible. If she had a regular job, you don't know how many miles she would commute or even if she would drive to the regular job.


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

TomP said:


> I assume that all miles driven related to Uber are legitimately deductible. Only the personal miles are not deductible. If she had a regular job, you don't know how many miles she would commute or even if she would drive to the regular job.


All miles driven with the app on are tax deductible.


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## TomP (May 3, 2015)

Tysmith95 said:


> All miles driven with the app on are tax deductible.


If Debra leaves home with the app on but later in the her shift repositions her vehicle with the app off I assume that those miles would be Uber miles for tax purposes. Similarly if she takes the car somewhere for cleaning that she would not have had to do if it were not for Uber driving, those miles would be Uber miles. That's why I phrased it "all miles driven related to Uber ". But for drivers who have no Uber service where they live, the miles to get to an Uber service area would be commute miles.


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

TomP said:


> If Debra leaves home with the app on but later in the her shift repositions her vehicle with the app off I assume that those miles would be Uber miles for tax purposes. Similarly if she takes the car somewhere for cleaning that she would not have had to do if it were not for Uber driving, those miles would be Uber miles. That's why I phrased it "all miles driven related to Uber ". But for drivers who have no Uber service where they live, the miles to get to an Uber service area would be commute miles.


Correct.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TomP said:


> If Debra leaves home with the app on but later in the her shift repositions her vehicle with the app off I assume that those miles would be Uber miles for tax purposes. Similarly if she takes the car somewhere for cleaning that she would not have had to do if it were not for Uber driving, those miles would be Uber miles. That's why I phrased it "all miles driven related to Uber ". But for drivers who have no Uber service where they live, the miles to get to an Uber service area would be commute miles.


What's the difference between repositioning her vehicle later in the shift versus repositioning at the start of her shift? (Not that any of this matters.)


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## LVegas (Feb 13, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


Be very careful(accident free) here on out, a totaled car will cost you, 17k-9k=8k(out of pocket bill).


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

LVegas said:


> Be very careful(accident free) here on out, a totaled car will cost you, 17k-9k=8k(out of pocket bill).


An accident which totals the car would be a catastrophe for the OP, but there are factors I don't think you're considering. Since the OP has a note on the ride, it would really depend on how the policy reads and whether or not they will even cover commercial driving.(if she totals it while Ubering)

Supposedly the finance company's insurance would kick in then, but then she'd owe the premiums for that coverage.

9


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## TomP (May 3, 2015)

Coachman said:


> What's the difference between repositioning her vehicle later in the shift versus repositioning at the start of her shift? (Not that any of this matters.)


It is for the hypothetical situation in which Debra is audited. Drivers should keep a daily log of their driving so that they can total up Uber miles and personal miles. If Debra were to be asked, "When do you turn the app on?" and if she were to answer, "I always drive downtown and then turn the app on" then it could be argued that the drive downtown is commute distance. That's what makes sense to me (living in Canada). Does anyone have a different opinion?


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## BoboBig (Mar 1, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


How did you add those miles; if you worked those miles you should have made 50k all ready and paid the car off by now....


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## run26912 (Sep 23, 2015)

LVegas said:


> Be very careful(accident free) here on out, a totaled car will cost you, 17k-9k=8k(out of pocket bill).


Not if she has GAP insurance. In fact, totaling the car would be the best path out of the hole. 
Assuming she has GAP insurance.

BONG!!


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Putting 60k on your vehicle in less then a year is a full time fare for hire vehicle. You should of made enough to triple up on your payments. Rule of thumb in this profession; Never use a vehicle for full time fare for hire that you can't pay off in 36 months.


Never buy a car at all that you can pay off in 36 months. Never buy a car for Rideshare that you can't pay off in 12.



Debra Rey said:


> Thanks guys!! I have read all your post and found some great ideas. Unfortunately quitting is not an option.
> 
> Yes my car is being driven into the ground. I need 4 new tires I cant afford to buy.


Don't forget that you may qualify for some of the Uber Rewards. There's a deal with Firestone where you can get 4 new tires for only 10% over their cost. Worth looking into, IMO.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Never buy a car at all that you can pay off in 36 months. Never buy a car for Rideshare that you can't pay off in 12.


Huh? Can you elaborate.


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## DontLease (Jan 26, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


My leased car was totaled by a hit and run driver I owe $17,900 and James River will only cover $15,000 I'm gonna owe $2900 and have no way to drive and earn so guess gonna take it in the ass for now


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## run26912 (Sep 23, 2015)

DontLease said:


> My leased car was totaled by a hit and run driver I owe $17,900 and James River will only cover $15,000 I'm gonna owe $2900 and have no way to drive and earn so guess gonna take it in the ass for now


That's what GAP insurance is for. Check with the leasing/finance company if they included the GAP insurance with the lease. Around here, most leases have GAP insurance included.

BONG!!!


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> Thanks guys!! I have read all your post and found some great ideas. Unfortunately quitting is not an option.
> 
> Yes my car is being driven into the ground. I need 4 new tires I cant afford to buy.


Your car is underwater in value by a lot. You need tires that you can't afford. You need to eat baloney on white bread sandwiches for every meal. The dollar pack of baloney from Walmart and the $1 white bread from a bakery outlet store. Never buy anything else besides toilet paper and gas for the car. Pay the car off. The fact that you say you can't quit seems ludicrous. It's like saying "I've fallen in a huge hole and can't get out what should I do keep digging"? You are headed towards bankruptcy and a horrible credit score.



SuzeCB said:


> Don't forget that you may qualify for some of the Uber Rewards. There's a deal with Firestone where you can get 4 new tires for only 10% over their cost. Worth looking into, IMO.


Plus balancing and mounting and warranty charge for $100 or more per tire


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## Bandy (Jul 26, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> The 'bright side' needs to be MUCH brighter. Meanwhile, my car is worth $9,000 and I owe $17k. now paying my car note.


I'll give you 11K pending inspection...



Driving and Driven said:


> I just came back from filing my taxes after my first year of driving Uber.
> 
> I know it has been said many times on this forum but it never sinks in until we experience personally. After calculating depreciation and fuel and fees and tolls and...everything else...I would be better off at Starbucks or McDonald's.
> 
> _That_'s the math.


not the best outcome...


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Huh? Can you elaborate.


There's a financial advisor named Suze Orman (she says hers "Suzie") that advises if you don't have a combination of enough money to put down as a DP and enough money in your monthly budget to pay a car off within 36 months, you can't afford that car, and should look for something less expensive. I've found her advise about most things to be sound (if very conservative), and this is no different.

I took the same principle, tweaked it a bit, and applied it to buying a car for rideshare to abuse.


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## Recoup (Jan 30, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> Never buy a car at all that you can pay off in 36 months. Never buy a car for Rideshare that you can't pay off in 12.





SEAL Team 5 said:


> Huh? Can you elaborate.


The first part (36 months) is standard financial advice; I'm guessing that the second part (12 months for rideshare) is based on putting 3x or 4x the miles on a rideshare car, compared to a personal-use-only car.

(Edited to add: JINX!)


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## benzdriver84 (Feb 22, 2017)

If you did all the oil changes and maintenance yourself you could roll the car back to 25k. Thats what I plan on doing, im buying a $30,000 2015 Infiniti for Uber Select and never have to worry about that stuff.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

PrestonT said:


> If I were going upside down on a car loan, I'd work extra hours to pay down the gap.


Easier said than done since the more you drive, the more the car will decrease in value.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Trebor said:


> Easier said than done since the more you drive, the more the car will decrease in value.


I thought I had while I was typing that, actually.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> My numbers are yours, exactly, and I'm racing to find another job. I did UberSUV for a spell, but the lease killed me in the winter months, and I've been thinking about going back to SUVland, but's it's sitting around for 2 or 3 hours between runs ( though the average run is 50 bucks ).
> yeah, there's a number of lawsuits happening about this. Jump in on the class action suit, if you can find it ( I forgot the link ). Hopefully, they'll win the suit and pay us for our expenses. _The hard, cold, truth is that you are breaking even._ You're merely converting auto equity into cash, living on it, and paying off a loan. It's insanity. Uber is robbing drivers of auto equity, and making them to work to do it.
> 
> If the rate were what local taxis were charging, all would be well, we'd just compete on service. But, they don't want us to make money, for some incredibly stupid reason.


Want to hear something even more stupid?

Uber released financials last week that show they lost 2.8 billion with 20 billion in revenue. Last year they dropped the rates by ANOTHER 20% basically nationwide. If they charged riders this 20 percent more, they will also of made 20% more. 20 percent of 20 billion? 4 billion. Uber would of made 1.2 billion profit give or take.

So.. Uber is losing money just like the rest of us, and all they have to do is raise the rates 20% more and everyone will be happy. You think drivers would complain about tips if Uber charged the same as a taxi?!



PrestonT said:


> I thought I had while I was typing that, actually.


The best thing to do is reroute the money (as much as you can) your making with Uber towards the car and not other petty purchases. In a perfect scenario, you would pay the car off first/save up enough money for the next car BEFORE spending your uber money elsewhere. Part timers can do this a lot easier since its not necessarily going to bills.



Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Come think about it, Some loan terms allow you to add what you owe on to your next vehicle. You just cant purchase another vehicle for the same amount as before.

Example: If you can qualify for 30k and yet owe 17k on your vehicle and can get 9k at trade in.. now you owe only 8k on the old loan. This amount owed (8k) can be rolled over into the new loan BUT you can only purchase a vehicle for 22k since when you add that 8k your looking at a 30k balance. You will still be upside down need to pay this off quickly though, but its something to think about if your engine fails.

Also, another way of getting out of a loan (although not really recommended) is to just let a accident happen when you know for damn sure its not your fault. This way, you can get an attorney that can negotiate your loan needs to be paid off by the other insurance company. Injuries are up to you, but stress can pay for your new cash car.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TomP said:


> It is for the hypothetical situation in which Debra is audited. Drivers should keep a daily log of their driving so that they can total up Uber miles and personal miles. If Debra were to be asked, "When do you turn the app on?" and if she were to answer, "I always drive downtown and then turn the app on" then it could be argued that the drive downtown is commute distance. That's what makes sense to me (living in Canada). Does anyone have a different opinion?


I understand this is hypothetical. My question is... why when she repositions herself with the app off from downtown is it Uber miles but when she repositions herself with the app off from home it's commute miles? My point being... no auditor is ever going to ask that inane question, so why not take advantage of every single mile you possibly can?

When you drop off a pax and then head to 7-Eleven to fill your drink and pee, are you logging those as Uber miles or personal miles?


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Trebor said:


> Come think about it, Some loan terms allow you to add what you owe on to your next vehicle. You just cant purchase another vehicle for the same amount as before.


From a business perspective, you would just be parlaying your losses


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I understand this is hypothetical. My question is... why when she repositions herself with the app off from downtown is it Uber miles but when she repositions herself with the app off from home it's commute miles? My point being... no auditor is ever going to ask that inane question, so why not take advantage of every single mile you possibly can?
> 
> When you drop off a pax and then head to 7-Eleven to fill your drink and pee, are you logging those as Uber miles or personal miles?


Exacly no auditor is going to spend weeks trying to see the coloration between miles driven for uber and when you were online and when you were not to make you pay $100 in taxes. Plus Uber's info of when you are online or not is not even accurate or up to date. I've been online several hours from home and not one ride, just one quick cancellation ping and it shows I'm online 1 hour only. Doesn't matter I'm not writing off any miles today unless i get an actual ride or get a ride that cancels along the way there..
but the IRS is not reasonable or logical so who knows, but most likely they won't bother you when they know the area and that we have 3/1 dead miles.

Some companies are dumb, they make you look for hours for an error of $1 or more instead of just writing it off, this was in the 80s when things were entered manually now with computers it's less of an issue.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Talk with your Auto Loan provider and get Gap Insurance if you do not have it already. Because, if your car is stolen or totaled, the Gap Insurance will make up the difference between it's value and what you owe - Gap.

Good on you for making the connection about how much depreciation you are putting on your car. You're smart...you'll make it.


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## TomP (May 3, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I understand this is hypothetical. My question is... why when she repositions herself with the app off from downtown is it Uber miles but when she repositions herself with the app off from home it's commute miles? My point being... no auditor is ever going to ask that inane question, so why not take advantage of every single mile you possibly can?
> 
> When you drop off a pax and then head to 7-Eleven to fill your drink and pee, are you logging those as Uber miles or personal miles?





Lee239 said:


> Exactly no auditor is going to spend weeks trying to see the coloration between miles driven for uber and when you were online and when you were not to make you pay $100 in taxes. Plus Uber's info of when you are online or not is not even accurate or up to date. I've been online several hours from home and not one ride, just one quick cancellation ping and it shows I'm online 1 hour only. Doesn't matter I'm not writing off any miles today unless i get an actual ride or get a ride that cancels along the way there..
> but the IRS is not reasonable or logical so who knows, but most likely they won't bother you when they know the area and that we have 3/1 dead miles.
> 
> Some companies are dumb, they make you look for hours for an error of $1 or more instead of just writing it off, this was in the 80s when things were entered manually now with computers it's less of an issue.


I expect that if a driver works a shift that typically he or she would claim every mile driven as an Uber mile. Coachman asked this question:


Coachman said:


> What's the difference between repositioning her vehicle later in the shift versus repositioning at the start of her shift? (Not that any of this matters.)


In my reply I indicated that if a driver was always commuting with the app off to the start of a shift then technically he/she should consider those miles as personal miles. But I would expect that most drivers would start with the app on and the IRS would expect this too.


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## benzdriver84 (Feb 22, 2017)

Ok serious note here. You are WAY better off putting the car into a guardrail. Just buckle up, sit far away from the airbag and relax, dont tense up. 20-25 miles per hour will destroy the car and you wont get hurt. ONLY do this if you know you have gap coverage! Then you are freeeeeee


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> There's a financial advisor named Suze Orman (she says hers "Suzie") that advises if you don't have a combination of enough money to put down as a DP and enough money in your monthly budget to pay a car off within 36 months, you can't afford that car, and should look for something less expensive. I've found her advise about most things to be sound (if very conservative), and this is no different.
> 
> I took the same principle, tweaked it a bit, and applied it to buying a car for rideshare to abuse.


So the post was suppose to say never buy a car that you CAN'T payoff in 36 months. I agree. I was just confused about the wording.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

LAuberX said:


> By using the standard mileage deduction to reduce your taxable income... how much did you earn driving 60,000 miles?


Unless she deadheads like crazy, $35 - $40K

XCHANGE lease charges $150-200/wk for a car for 3yrs. That's about how much it's truly costs to Ant full time.

Not saying you should go out & lease but you should be paying it off like a xchange lease.


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## Recoup (Jan 30, 2017)

Trebor said:


> Come think about it, Some loan terms allow you to add what you owe on to your next vehicle. You just cant purchase another vehicle for the same amount as before.
> 
> Example: If you can qualify for 30k and yet owe 17k on your vehicle and can get 9k at trade in.. now you owe only 8k on the old loan. This amount owed (8k) can be rolled over into the new loan BUT you can only purchase a vehicle for 22k since when you add that 8k your looking at a 30k balance. You will still be upside down need to pay this off quickly though, but its something to think about if your engine fails.


I hope this is in the nature of a joke... because man, talk about trying to get out of a hole by digging--this is a *classic *example. Rolling over an old car loan into a new one is sorta the poster-child example for bad financial management.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Recoup said:


> I hope this is in the nature of a joke... because man, talk about trying to get out of a hole by digging--this is a *classic *example. Rolling over an old car loan into a new one is sorta the poster-child example for bad financial management.


The problem is her Hyundai is totally going to crap out before she has a chance to pay it off with Uber income/making payments as is. She can minimize the damage by not getting the next loan for the full amount she is qualified for. i.e Maybe she can find a car for $10,000 rather than $20,000 and work diligently on paying it off and hopefully the car is still good so she can save up for a cash car. But yes, you are right, its the last thing anyone should want to do. Hopefully she can save up at least 5k quickly and get a cash car before her Hyundai gives up.


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## Hail Macbeth (Feb 7, 2017)

I doubt Uber can sustain itself if it becomes solely a way to depreciate your car. If your after-expenses income barely covers the depreciation, then it would make more sense to simply SELL YOUR CAR and buy a depreciated one if you want, thereby saving yourself all of those hours on the road. 

Uber profitability is always getting worse, but assuming it did stay the way it is today, I believe it is profitable for me. I pay $130 a month in tire rotation/oil changes and put about 5,000 miles on my Prius C, which is worth at this point about $10,000. I expect to get another 110,000 miles out of it at least. So, in 22 months I will have totaled it. But I make (if I'm not screwing around) about $500 a week driving part-time. That works out to $44,000, which covers the cost of depreciation. 

The thing is, Priuses depreciate relatively slowly, and I'm driving in LA during peak times where it's reasonable to forecast $20 an hour. If I were doing it for 10, it wouldn't make any sense at all.


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## Flacco (Apr 23, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> You need to view your vehicle from a business standpoint. Even though the ACV may only be a certain amount the amount of revenue the vehicle can generate is much more. I'm currently operating a '15 Escalade. With the high miles I've accumulated over the past two years I would guess my ACV is only about $30k. However I know in the next two years I will make $170k-$180k operating my vehicle. After that I will sell it and buy a newer model. It will be my 5th vehicle in this industry.
> Coachman said it the best. You must know what your getting into before you get into it.


Do you work for a Limo company and/or have private clients??


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Never use a vehicle for full time fare for hire that you can't pay off in 36 months.


Or just swap vehicles using your petty cash.

Tucson is 2 row, right? And not even a "real" all-weather 4x4 truck-based SUV, either.

Conclusion: No XL. No Select. No all-weather capabilities.

....no reason to use one. Especially one that was minty newish when you started out



Debra Rey said:


> Thanks guys!! I have read all your post and found some great ideas. Unfortunately quitting is not an option.
> 
> Yes my car is being driven into the ground. I need 4 new tires I cant afford to buy.


New tires = wrong strategy

Get cheapie takeoffs from some kid who immediately 'upgraded' to 42" spiked gold plated aftermarket rims right after driving off the dealer lot


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## jaywaynedubya (Feb 17, 2015)

This is a business, the problem is most people don't understand that . It is a relatively simple one at that with only a few expenses, yet people can't see whether it's worth it or not.


Most people driving Uber have sub prime loans, meaning high interest rates and don't think or know about vehicle depreciation. And vehicle depreciation for these types is much larger given these people usually trade in their vehicle to the dealer for a greater hit.

Most people can not afford new cars except the upper middle class if afford means eventually retiring and such.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Flacco said:


> Do you work for a Limo company and/or have private clients??


Livery service and yes, 95% of our business is repeat clientele. Our company has been operating in Scottsdale AZ for nearly 18 years.


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## Sillyfool (Apr 17, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


The vast majority of rideshare drivers are losing money. Rideshare, (Uber/Lyft etc) is kind of like credit cards. You borrow from tomorrow, in order to get through today.



DollarStoreChauffeur said:


> Uber is a scam which only benefits Uber and the rider. That being said, that is a lot of mileage in a year even while anting for Uber. My advice is to quite while you're behind. I quit after just a few months when I recognized it's a scam. Uber doesn't deserve drivers and riders don't deserve drivers.


Well said! Couldn't agree more. Uber has a multi-billion dollar fleet of cars on the road at zero cost to them. The biggest subsidy they get is drivers voluntarily supplying them with cars. This goes for all rideshare companies, not just fuber.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Livery service and yes, 95% of our business is repeat clientele. Our company has been operating in Scottsdale AZ for nearly 18 years.


18 smhh

Mears has had taxis on the streets of Orlando since 1939,

But back then we served the drunkard off duty airmen from McCoy Airforce base, not the tourists we deal with today.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Well said! Couldn't agree more. Uber has a multi-billion dollar fleet of cars on the road at zero cost to them. The biggest subsidy they get is drivers voluntarily supplying them with cars. This goes for all rideshare companies, not just fuber.[/QUOTE]
That's great but she didn't factor in dead miles and point out that most Uber drivers don't see one penny of profit at the end of the year.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 18 smhh
> 
> Mears has had taxis on the streets of Orlando since 1939,
> 
> But back then we served the drunkard off duty airmen from McCoy Airforce base, not the tourists we deal with today.


Wow, you were driving in 1939? That's pretty impressive!


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## Jacob THE DRIVER (Dec 4, 2016)

This is very entertaining to me first you cant consider the value of your we all know when u buy a brand new car the moment you drive it off the lot you get hit with immediate devaluation. Every time you drive your car it loses value so if you work your car forget about value its over . Working for uber or any form of transportation is running a business all businesses have a overhead remember you have to spend money to make money . A very good example of why taxi company's had to have multiple cars and why we in housed everything possible. Good luck with your venture i wish you the best.


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## benzdriver84 (Feb 22, 2017)

It's entertaining to me too. I bought a car for $4500 and got nearly $50,000 in driving out of it and still hasn't given me any major repairs. And the best part is....since its a Mercedes, its still actually worth money...in this case what I paid for it. Don't buy a new car for uber


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## CelebDriver (Feb 25, 2017)

Jacob THE DRIVER said:


> This is very entertaining to me first you cant consider the value of your we all know when u buy a brand new car the moment you drive it off the lot you get hit with immediate devaluation. Every time you drive your car it loses value so if you work your car forget about value its over . Working for uber or any form of transportation is running a business all businesses have a overhead remember you have to spend money to make money . A very good example of why taxi company's had to have multiple cars and why we in housed everything possible. Good luck with your venture i wish you the best.


Taxis make $3/mile. I make $1.10/mile. Why? Because the company does not have to buy the cars.


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## Flacco (Apr 23, 2016)

CelebDriver said:


> Taxis make $3/mile. I make $1.10/mile. Why? Because the company does not have to buy the cars.


It was that everyone in the taxi industry actually made a living wage. They could buy a house and take a vacation and the company owners got wealthy. I drive XL Uber and do not take vacations because I am not netting $1,000 a week or anything close


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## CelebDriver (Feb 25, 2017)

Full time taxi drivers here make $29k-$45k. And they don't have to pay for gas, car or insurance.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

CelebDriver said:


> Full time taxi drivers here make $29k-$45k. And they don't have to pay for gas, car or insurance.


I couldn't even live off that in Las Vegas, let alone San Diego....


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

Tysmith95 said:


> All miles driven with the app on are tax deductible.


As long as you keep accurate records, every mile you drive while on the Uber platform is deductible. That means that you have to record your mileage when you leave home headed for an area where you plan to drive (commute). You turn on the app and drive. You make your last drop off and then you head home (commute). EVERY MILE YOU DROVE is deductible. You drive many miles to pick up riders. You drive many miles back from remote locations where no rides are available and you drive miles only to have the pax cancel. ALL OF THESE MILES ARE DEDUCTIBLE. You just need to log your odmeter number when you leave in the morning and update that info when you arrive home. Wash, lather, rinse, repeat. The personal miles will not be recorded as you recorded your mileage when you left and your recorded the mileage when you returned. ALL of those miles are eligible for the .54/mile deduction (2016) and is your best defense against big government.


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

Try going to a different area. Hot spots are out there, just need to seek them out.

A cheaper car also wouldn't hurt. Who says it has to be nearly new? If the vehicle qualifies, use it. I'm always on the lookout for cheap vehicles that could potentially qualify for the next couple of years. All part of the master plan.


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## Toonces-the-cat (Jun 7, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


The hidden costs associated with Uber.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

To me the best part of this story is that her car is underwater by half it's value, she needs tires and can't afford them, and she says she can't quit.

It reminds me of the joke about the guy who works at the circus shoveling elephant poo, he complains he hates it so his friend asks him why doesn't he quit and he says "what and quit show business?".


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## Recoup (Jan 30, 2017)

"We're selling below cost, but we're making it up in volume!!"

OP Debra Rey hasn't been back since Tuesday... I hope we didn't bum her out too bad


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## DontLease (Jan 26, 2017)

You must mean PIP or Umbrella because the Gap I have is my insurance covers 1 and James river 2 and 3 so in gap 2 they pay 15000 of the 17000 I owe BAMA for lease and no injury I get NADA


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

If we go back to the original topic header.....
Vehicle depreciation vs earned income. Not adding up!
The answer is yes, you are correct, it does not add up. Driving for Uber is a losing proposition no matter how you do the math. Uber knows this and Uber and fix this. Instead, their goal is to run all of the competitors out of business (including the city bus lines) so they can sweep in and take over the transportation business. It is, of course, a failed business plan but until someone clears their head and throws Travis to the Wolves, Uber really has no future of any kind.


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## KenJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


My posting in the below link from a couple month or so ago is how I deal with all the concerns with driving for income. I bet you can't get any better discussion than that anywhere on this forum. Hope it helps and makes sense.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/is-anyone-in-atlanta-making-decent-money.25076/page-8#post-2113508


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

PrestonT said:


> Wow, you were driving in 1939? That's pretty impressive!


Sorry for the confusion, the cab company i RECRUIT FOR, which is Mears transportation, has been family owned with taxis on the road since 39.

As the companies official social media Troll on the forums, I borrowed the name..

We also are one of the biggest (i believe biggest) charter bus services in Florida.









(Yes all of that is company owned land)

The taxi division is the smallest and least profitable business venture the company is operating.
d

There arn't that many cab companies that are diversified as we are. We can survive cutting back taxi numbers by a few hundred. The black car division probobly is going to need cut back as well.. Changing times and all that. Changing times...

This monolyth of a company will survive uber, the better question is... will uber survive uber?


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## EnjoyEnJan (May 18, 2016)

uberlyfting123 said:


> The idea is. Try to make $1= mile
> 
> After Uber/Lyft takeaway.
> 
> ...


Prius 35k?


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## Ubingdowntown (Feb 25, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> Yep, that's my plan to get to the promise land!


Why is cutting your losses now not a option. You don't seem unemployable like most drivers in your situation. I drive a 08 prius with 300000 miles. 45 mpg you have better options than driving $200000 dollar rides for pax to puke in.


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## TeeDub (Apr 21, 2017)

I hate to interject (no I don't) but taking depreciation on a car you already own, and is also used for your personal life is like trying to nail jello to a tree. POINTLESS. Just drive. If you make money after gas and any return tolls - FABU! Keep it up and keep good records (EVERY TIME YOU DRIVE!). If not, don't do it. But trying to pay "catch up" to make this profitable is just silly. 

I drive like a banshee right now, because I have to. But I also have a 20 year background in accounting. This week's payout is around $1200 and my net (NET after gas and tolls) is about $900. I never drive at night. And I turn down rides into NYC. I live at the shore and it isn't Summer yet. I don't chase surges. I just let the rides take me where they will, and it works out. If I try to cry "depreciation" on a car I bought two years before I started driving during audit, I'd be laughed right out of the office. And rightfully so!


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## benzdriver84 (Feb 22, 2017)

TeeDub said:


> I hate to interject (no I don't) but taking depreciation on a car you already own, and is also used for your personal life is like trying to nail jello to a tree. POINTLESS. Just drive. If you make money after gas and any return tolls - FABU! Keep it up and keep good records (EVERY TIME YOU DRIVE!). If not, don't do it. But trying to pay "catch up" to make this profitable is just silly.
> 
> I drive like a banshee right now, because I have to. But I also have a 20 year background in accounting. This week's payout is around $1200 and my net (NET after gas and tolls) is about $900. I never drive at night. And I turn down rides into NYC. I live at the shore and it isn't Summer yet. I don't chase surges. I just let the rides take me where they will, and it works out. If I try to cry "depreciation" on a car I bought two years before I started driving during audit, I'd be laughed right out of the office. And rightfully so!


Excellent point and what has so many haters mad at me right now...I paid $4500 for my benz a few years ago, put about 60,000 miles on it (20 personal use, 40k rideshare) and maybe put $1500 into it tops. Meanwhile all these other idiots are out there leasing brand new cars and financing cars specifically for this crap. Makes me sick


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## Zoey jasmine (Mar 25, 2017)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> All smart drivers have upgrade to uber black, or driving for the government to picking the elderly . Most uber driers quit in the first 6 months because they realized it is not worth. The rest of active drivers are broke and has no money to fix the rotors brake and new tires.


What company is the one that is picking up the elderly?


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## Delilah5 (Mar 20, 2017)

CelebDriver said:


> Full time taxi drivers here make $29k-$45k. And they don't have to pay for gas, car or insurance.


Taxi drivers here are mostly renting taxi company cars for $150 per 12 hour shift and usually work the first half of the shift to break even before any profits. Average week is 6 dayx x 12 hours = 72 hours. If they can Net $1000 per week averages out to be less than $14 per hour.


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

benzdriver84 said:


> Excellent point and what has so many haters mad at me right now...I paid $4500 for my benz a few years ago, put about 60,000 miles on it (20 personal use, 40k rideshare) and maybe put $1500 into it tops. Meanwhile all these other idiots are out there leasing brand new cars and financing cars specifically for this crap. Makes me sick


I laugh my ass off at those people. There's a girl I see here at the airport lot here in Phoenix that's rolling a brand new BMW 3 series. I'm sure she's told herself that driving Lyft is going to pay her car payment and all is well. Meanwhile, she's getting hammered in depreciation with a brand new car that already depreciates like a mother even without ridesharing. But since she's not realizing that hit today, she doesn't care. She will when she finally gets it paid off six years from now and it's three years past being worthless.


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## CelebDriver (Feb 25, 2017)

PHXTE said:


> She will when she finally gets it paid off six years from now and it's three years past being worthless.


I give her 6 weeks at most before she finds a guy to use his car and do it for her.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Delilah5 said:


> Taxi drivers here are mostly renting taxi company cars for $150 per 12 hour shift and usually work the first half of the shift to break even before any profits. Average week is 6 dayx x 12 hours = 72 hours. If they can Net $1000 per week averages out to be less than $14 per hour.


The rental can vary dramatically...

Some are worse than others, that's all i'm going to say.

In orlando the taxi rental rates vary based on a number of factors.

What time of day the shift is,
What permits does it have
What hotels/theme parks can you park in front of.

10:00 PM El cheapo graveyard shift in a car with no theme park access, hotel curbs and no airport sticker is $66 for 12 hours.

5:00 PM orlando airport stickers and hotel stand parking can run $118 for the same make/model of car from the same company...

Personally i'm paying $73 a day to rent a 2012 or 2013 camry hybrid with Universal orlando access, hotel stands, but no airport access for 9:00 PM to 9:00 AM. My total expenses are in the $95-105 range.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Debra Rey said:


> Well heck, that makes a lot of sense. If only I had the discretionary income so that I could triple my payments, pay rent, insurance, etc..... $10 an hour is not doable. I feel I'm hustling backwards.
> 
> Thanks guys I'm done venting.


The thing to do (easy to say, not to actually do this though) is to drive around 2 am and pick up potentially puking drunks during surge periods. Get plastic seat covers for these times, including the back of your front seats. This is sounding like Dexter, I know, but somehow try to minimize the amount of vomit that gets on your car. I also have medical-grade vomit bags I've only used once because I don't drive the puking drunks (yet, though I did get an inexpensive dog seat cover on ebay just in case I go for the $hits and giggles). I know full well how little driving regular daytime hours pays, generally around $8 per hour in my market and that is before expenses. Keep looking for a regular job, and if you need help finding what you should be doing, message me (I have a knack for that sort of thing).



Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


One other thing to maybe scare you off for good: I've read that extended car warranty companies won't honor claims for cars having been driven for rideshare, so we always have that!


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> This is sounding like Dexter, I know, !


You called?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> I just came back from filing my taxes after my first year of driving Uber.
> 
> I know it has been said many times on this forum but it never sinks in until we experience personally. After calculating depreciation and fuel and fees and tolls and...everything else...I would be better off at Starbucks or McDonald's.
> 
> _That_'s the math.


Preach!



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Don't use a 2013 car for Uber. Cheapest car you can get away with. You can't depreciate that which is already depreciated, so better to buy an old Hyundai Sonata for 4 or 5 thousand and drive that until you can't anymore.
> 
> But being you already have and now have a car worth $10K (resale value) you could keep driving it. No reason you can't put 100K more miles on that car and you'll make $60-100K doing it, most of it tax free. But you have to drive a little more strategically because $10/hr isn't really good enough. Maybe try changing your shifts and locations.
> 
> You could also consider trading it in now for something more efficient and cheaper and drive that instead. Even with the payments on the shortage refinanced and added to payments on a cheap used car you'd be paying less per month and have lower expenses for the same income.


I'm curious to know how you expect anyone, other than those who drive in select lucrative markets, to actually make $1.00 per mile. Uber only pays 75% of their per mile fee which is definitely much less than $1 per mile, in my market it is 60 cents per mile. Add to that the fact that in my spread-out city, I drive a minimum average of 1.5 miles for every mile I drive a passenger, so with the .54 cent depreciation per mile, that leaves .06 cents per mile less the traveling to mileage, so about what, less than 3 cents per mile "profit" and for 100,000 miles the profit is $3,000. Far from the 100,000$ you're estimating. Unless you're one of those who think depreciation and expenses don't count at all.


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## Learntoletgo (May 26, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> Yes. that's the new 24 month plan. Quitting is not an option at this point. Thanks!!
> 
> Gwinnett- Loganville, Snellville, etc.


I have to ask. Did you speak to an accountant or tax person? I ask because mine says there are tons of stuff you to get deductions.
You should be able to write off the deprecation on your vehicle. 
Fine someone who can and don't listen to the negative people.


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## Skinny1 (Sep 24, 2015)

Let me add next shoe.

Used cars will need to be noted as having been used for rideshare.
I would never pay blue book for a car used in rideshare. Was it puked in? The extra wear and tear. I see tons of used suburbans available just after the warranty expired. This trucks were driven hard no doubt.... I would not pay what they are asking.

That notation will be coming ....


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


Report it stolen and set it ablaze on a lonely back road.

Pour extra gas on the odometer.

Uber is UNSUSTAINABLE !

Drivers subsidise Uber !

All while lies of Robots increasing uber profits are spread to investors.

Uber can not afford to run their own cars

Yet refuses to pay us for ours !


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## Lapetak (May 27, 2017)

Not worth it, I drive a 2005 MPV Mazda (XL category) and since the car value on the market is like $1,200 I dont think it can get depreciated more than whatever it is. You cant do UBER with a new car, has to be a well maintained depreciated and efficient car in order to see some revenue.


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## Mr. Sarcastic (Sep 28, 2018)

Only two things matter:
1) Can you OFFSET what you're paying for gas with CASH TIPS?
2) If the answer is yes, how much money will you have after driving 100,000 miles for Uber/Lyft? If you live AND drive in a big city, you ought to be able to do $1 per mile, which means you'll have $100,000. If you live in a smaller or more rural area, you'll be lucky to do $1 per TWO miles, which means you'll have $50,000. Either way, IF YOU ARE DISCIPLINED, you should at least have enough to afford new tires, oil changes, etc., and buy a new car when you reach 200,000 miles … with plenty of profit left over.

Of course, it REALLY helps if this isn't your only job.

Here's a simpler way to look at it: If you're bank account has (substantially) more in it after you buy your next new car than it did when you bought this one, then you're doing something right. And, yes, the flexibility of "working" whenever you want is a HUGE upside.


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## Jacob THE DRIVER (Dec 4, 2016)

Funny no matter the label I see taxi problems that could be solved so simply oh yea wait we cant uber,lyft control the value of the ride with no regard for the driver. Therefore we the income generating force have to make it work while the big guy profits in the billions and we get these threads of people who NEED to self justify the more than obvious fact that we get the shit end of the stick no matter what!!! But your average person on here is always worried about the value of the car thats the least of the problems if you choose to do "rideshare" its a dam taxi job lmao just because you change the label you cant change the economics or dynamics of how a peticular business works....


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Jacob THE DRIVER said:


> But your average person on here is always worried about the value of the car thats the least of the problems if you choose to do "rideshare" its a dam taxi job lmao just because you change the label you cant change the economics or dynamics of how a peticular business works....


Rideshare is a lot better business plan for Uber and Lyft than the taxi cab racket was for the Yellow Cab companies.

In Rideshare, Uber doesn't have to buy or maintain a fleet of vehicles. They don't have to hire mechanics, or auto body men, tow truck operators. All the payments are done electronically as well as all the dispatching.

Just looks like an easier way to make money with little downside risk or investment needed.


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## UberEaters (Nov 15, 2018)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


10 an hour minus gas and depreciation, insurance and your phone is negative income. I made about the same and turbotax said I made -$300 dollars for the year. You're gonna end up not being able to pay off that car and destroying your credit. Get out while you can


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## Flacco (Apr 23, 2016)

Your vehicle will be worth a lot less in 5 years with or without driving for Uber.

The question is if you can find something that pays better.

Either way, I suggest that you keep the vehicle until you run the wheels off it. Just a depreciating item any way you look at it. Also, try to avoid owing more than a vehicle is worth in the future (if possible). If you that much more than the vehicle is worth, Gap insurance is a good idea. 

Yes, Uber net pay is not good.


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## Delilah5 (Mar 20, 2017)

Debra Rey said:


> I started driving for Uber 11 months ago. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson had 19k miles on it. Today I hit 79k miles. At this rate I will have over a 100k miles on the vehicle in no time at all. I still owe 17k on the dang car and average $10 an hour driving for Uber. I don't know what to do at this p0int, and how the heck do you people deal with your business/vehicles depreciation.


You should be making about $1 per mile driven. If you went from 19k to 79k you probably made 60k. and your vehicle still has value no matter the depreciation. I did 9500 trips in about 60k miles the last 18 months.

Tax wise you are deducting the standard mileage rate of 54 cents per mile off your gross income to pay less.

So in my example if I made 60k I am deducting 32700 so taxable income is 27300


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Delilah5 said:


> You should be making about $1 per mile driven. If you went from 19k to 79k you probably made 60k. and your vehicle still has value no matter the depreciation. I did 9500 trips in about 60k miles the last 18 months.
> 
> Tax wise you are deducting the standard mileage rate of 54 cents per mile off your gross income to pay less.
> 
> So in my example if I made 60k I am deducting 32700 so taxable income is 27300


I agree this gig dosent make much sense at less than a dollar a mile but I don't see how a dollar a mile is possible with Uber/lyft

Uber pays 75 cents a mile and 10 cents a minute in my market So even if I have no dead miles I figure the theoretical best I can do is about 80 cents a mile (plus tips)

That's why I'm buying a commercial insurance policy and getting my "vehicle for hire" permit so I can do cash rides legally.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Debra Rey said:


> Well heck, that makes a lot of sense. If only I had the discretionary income so that I could triple my payments, pay rent, insurance, etc..... $10 an hour is not doable. I feel I'm hustling backwards.
> 
> Thanks guys I'm done venting.


" LOWER RATES MEAN MORE MONEY " !

" NO NEED TO TIP " !


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberEaters said:


> 10 an hour minus gas and depreciation, insurance and your phone is negative income. I made about the same and turbotax said I made -$300 dollars for the year. You're gonna end up not being able to pay off that car and destroying your credit. Get out while you can


You're replying to someone who posted 1.5 years ago and is probably not doing uber anymore since her car has likely blown up by now.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DollarStoreChauffeur said:


> Uber is a scam which only benefits Uber and the rider. That being said, that is a lot of mileage in a year even while anting for Uber. My advice is to quite while you're behind. I quit after just a few months when I recognized it's a scam. Uber doesn't deserve drivers and riders don't deserve drivers.


The ULTIMATE GOAL
IS TO FORCE DRIVERS TO BE CUSTOMERS !



Fuzzyelvis said:


> You're replying to someone who posted 1.5 years ago and is probably not doing uber anymore since her car has likely blown up by now.


Someone is doing tbe exact same thing
Right Now . . .


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## Las Vegas Dude (Sep 3, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I agree this gig dosent make much sense at less than a dollar a mile but I don't see how a dollar a mile is possible with Uber/lyft
> 
> Uber pays 75 cents a mile and 10 cents a minute in my market So even if I have no dead miles I figure the theoretical best I can do is about 80 cents a mile (plus tips)
> 
> That's why I'm buying a commercial insurance policy and getting my "vehicle for hire" permit so I can do cash rides legally.


Here in Vegas I average a dollar a mile each driving session after I subtract gas. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. We get 60 cents a mile and 15 cents a minute. Between the long rides and short rides and a few tips it averages out. Some rides I get 2 bucks a mile or more. Drive .5 mile to pick someone up and then drive a mile and drop them off for the minimum fare of 3.97. So for 3.97 I drove 1.5 miles.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Las Vegas Dude said:


> Here in Vegas I average a dollar a mile each driving session after I subtract gas. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. We get 60 cents a mile and 15 cents a minute. Between the long rides and short rides and a few tips it averages out. Some rides I get 2 bucks a mile or more. Drive .5 mile to pick someone up and then drive a mile and drop them off for the minimum fare of 3.97. So for 3.97 I drove 1.5 miles.


U have more fixed expenses than Just Fuel
Don't u pay car insurance?
Are u planning on car maintenance, tires, oil change, depreciation?

Depending on ur vehicle, multiply .30 - .50 cent by the number of miles u drove
Deduct that from your gross
That's your profit margin. Aka: net

Khosrowshahi Uber loves drivers with poor math skills



Fuzzyelvis said:


> You're replying to someone who posted 1.5 years ago and is probably not doing uber anymore since her car has likely blown up by now.


I'm doing uber almost 4 years. Same Prius.
Tough little workhorse


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## Las Vegas Dude (Sep 3, 2018)

I agree there is more to it than just gas. I am aware of the expenses. If I make a dollar a mile after subtracting gas it’s worth it over all.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Las Vegas Dude said:


> Here in Vegas I average a dollar a mile each driving session after I subtract gas. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. We get 60 cents a mile and 15 cents a minute. Between the long rides and short rides and a few tips it averages out. Some rides I get 2 bucks a mile or more. Drive .5 mile to pick someone up and then drive a mile and drop them off for the minimum fare of 3.97. So for 3.97 I drove 1.5 miles.


I didn't think about short rides that pay the minimum. That really points out the differences in markets
I don't ghink I've ever seen a ride like that


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