# Uber suggests $100 MILLION fund to help NYC taxi drivers -- City says NO



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

THIS is what political corruption looks like...

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/1/17639656/uber-lyft-bailout-nyc-taxi-drivers-cap


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

It depends on what the strings were,

Aside from removing the cap on vehicles i wonder what else they were demanding for that 100 million.

_Of course, there were strings attached. The ride-sharing companies, including carpooling service Via, wanted the city to drop its proposals to cap the number of new Uber and Lyft vehicles and set a wage floor for drivers. In exchange, they said they would create this fund that they claim would pay out "tens of thousands of dollars" to individual medallion owners "right away."_

It could be a removal of the proposed cap on vehicles and the freedom to do whatever they want...

Without knowing all the details... it's hard to say.

But if you just read the headline... you'll never see the whole story.


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

Uber and Lyft can't raise rates but they can surely do this.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Uber and Lyft are already losing billions, why not pitch in to lose more ? lol

It's really funny to see Uber and Lyft go into full spin mode and make up fake reasons why the cap is bad. They know that drivers aren't going to help them out so they gotta try to use fake scare tactics to get customers to help out.

There will be a cap and this will set off all states to institute a cap, which can only help drivers, not hurt them.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Don't they need to bail out their own drivers in NYC first? Maybe the city will push through the min wage?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

njn said:


> Don't they need to bail out their own drivers in NYC first? Maybe the city will push through the min wage?


Or...the City should require the taxi company OWNERS, who are getting rich off the work of their slaves, to pay those drivers a minimum wage.


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## jdo1 (Jul 30, 2018)

JimKE said:


> Or...the City should require the taxi company OWNERS, who are getting rich off the work of their slaves, to pay those drivers a minimum wage.


We are contract workers for uber this is why we receive a 1099 and not a W2. If we were employees we would need a set schedule of times to work and not when we want to go online.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Or...the City should require the taxi company OWNERS, who are getting rich off the work of their slaves, to pay those drivers a minimum wage.


There aren't any yellow cab 'companies' in NYC per se there are garages which own fleets of cabs and rent them out.

The rate of pay (meter) for yellow cabs is set by the TLC. The TLC also sets the maximum price garages can charge for a shift.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

jdo1 said:


> We are contract workers for uber this is why we receive a 1099 and not a W2. If we were employees we would need a set schedule of times to work and not when we want to go online.


We would not need schedules if we were employees. There is no law whatsoever that requires employees to be on schedules. Period. End of story.

Stop making up lies or spreading misinformation for the rideshare company that you are shilling for here.


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## jdo1 (Jul 30, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> We would not need schedules if we were employees. There is no law whatsoever that requires employees to be on schedules. Period. End of story.
> 
> Stop making up lies or spreading misinformation for the rideshare company that you are shilling for here.


As a employee when can you come into work whenever you want? You might want to understand the difference between a contract worker and employee.


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## Uber Arnie (Nov 5, 2016)

jdo1 said:


> As a employee when can you come into work whenever you want? You might want to understand the difference between a contract worker and employee.


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## Mikejay (Aug 22, 2016)

jdo1 said:


> As a employee when can you come into work whenever you want? You might want to understand the difference between a contract worker and employee.


I work a job that i can do my own hours. I work different times every day. And yes I am a W-2 employee. You are very confused on what dictates what an employee is my friend.


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## jdo1 (Jul 30, 2018)

Mikejay said:


> I work a job that i can do my own hours. I work different times every day. And yes I am a W-2 employee. You are very confused on what dictates what an employee is my friend.


https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation
please read.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

jdo1 said:


> https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation
> please read.


have you yourself read what you quoted ?

we are employees, as most unemployment commissioners across the country have decided for for years


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## jdo1 (Jul 30, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> have you yourself read what you quoted ?
> 
> we are employees, as most unemployment commissioners across the country have decided for for years


If you're so unhappy with uber whats forcing you to stay?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

jdo1 said:


> If you're so unhappy with uber whats forcing you to stay?


i live in a market where this is a lot of demand so I'm able to still make money

but most drivers aren't fortunate to live in a busy market

And even if I'm able to turn a profit that has nothing to do with Uber and Lyft calling drivers independent contractors but treating them like employees.

And I love how you dodged my question with your own question.


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## Milito (Apr 26, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Or...the City should require the taxi company OWNERS, who are getting rich off the work of their slaves, to pay those drivers a minimum wage.


A medallion is just like a house, you buy it and you rent it, there isn't extra commission we pay a flat fee per day. Medallions are independently owned at least that's the case in Miami Dade county


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

JimKE said:


> THIS is what political corruption looks like...
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/1/17639656/uber-lyft-bailout-nyc-taxi-drivers-cap


How is that corrupt?

To be honest that $100 million is garbage in the actual scheme of things.

There's 13,xxx cabs in the city.. let's say they paid only 4,000 of them.. that's only $25,000 per owner/per medallion... and that's supposed to be spread out over 5 years... $25k over a spread of 5 years is garbage when you consider it you take that money you're basically saying "hey it's ok if Uber/Lyft/TLC tell me to **** off and destroy my life investment"

**** that.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Brooklyn said:


> How is that corrupt?
> 
> To be honest that $100 million is garbage in the actual scheme of things.
> 
> ...


Exactly. It's essentially nothing.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Brooklyn said:


> How is that corrupt?
> 
> To be honest that $100 million is garbage in the actual scheme of things.
> 
> ...


You can whine all you want about the problems with being a taxi owner. It's $100 million more than rideshare companies owe anyone in New York City -- and would be paid out of *rideshare fares*, to benefit "needy" taxi drivers.

Frankly, I think either the CITY itself or the taxi industry should create such a fund if the need is so great. Let the taxpayers pay for it or let the industry take care of itself. 
*
Since when is any business or industry guaranteed lifelong success? *Taxis are nothing special.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

JimKE said:


> You can whine all you want about the problems with being a taxi owner. It's $100 million more than rideshare companies owe anyone in New York City -- and would be paid out of *rideshare fares*, to benefit "needy" taxi drivers.
> 
> Frankly, I think either the CITY itself or the taxi industry should create such a fund if the need is so great. Let the taxpayers pay for it or let the industry take care of itself.
> *
> Since when is any business or industry guaranteed lifelong success? *Taxis are nothing special.


Lol you're clueless as hell.


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## jdo1 (Jul 30, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> i live in a market where this is a lot of demand so I'm able to still make money
> 
> but most drivers aren't fortunate to live in a busy market
> 
> ...


So if we supposively were employees we would get a W2....how do you expect that would have on your taxes? Fica taxes will be taken out federal/state withholding and oh btw forget filing a schedule c where mileage deduction would offset most of the income earned. So basically you'll be paying taxes which is worse imo


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> You can whine all you want about the problems with being a taxi owner. It's $100 million more than rideshare companies owe anyone in New York City -- and would be paid out of *rideshare fares*, to benefit "needy" taxi drivers.
> 
> Frankly, I think either the CITY itself or the taxi industry should create such a fund if the need is so great. Let the taxpayers pay for it or let the industry take care of itself.
> *
> Since when is any business or industry guaranteed lifelong success? *Taxis are nothing special.


Medallions were sold as the sole right to street hails, period. Uber is doing virtual street hails and paying nothing, period.

It's truly comical that people regurgitate the false claim that anyone is asking for 'lifelong success.' Any idea how hard and how many years some of these Medallion owners worked toward ownership based on the fact that it was sold as a sole right? Sorry if it's unappealing that taxis _*need*_ to be limited in numbers. That is reality.


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## Ridesharemiami (Jul 5, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Or...the City should require the taxi company OWNERS, who are getting rich off the work of their slaves, to pay those drivers a minimum wage.


Getting Rich off the work of Their SLAVES ???...
You are an Uber SLAVE.....
Or You are getting Rich driving for Uber and Lyft ??..You Do ??


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

jdo1 said:


> So if we supposively were employees we would get a W2....how do you expect that would have on your taxes? Fica taxes will be taken out federal/state withholding and oh btw forget filing a schedule c where mileage deduction would offset most of the income earned. So basically you'll be paying taxes which is worse imo


every employer gets to choose whether to call their workers employees or independent contractors, but most error on the side of caution because of the penalties involved in misclassifying workers

there have been numerous lawsuits on behalf of shuttle workers here in california, specifically norcal, by the state labor board and I have yet to see one go the way of employers

the same should be happening for Uber and Lyft workers because the state labor board will not be subject to the arbitration clause that Uber and Lyft use to prevent workers from banding together and using class action status to force Uber and Lyft to either correctly classify workers as employees or to allow drivers to actually be independent contractors by giving them freedom from the control that Uber and Lyft both currently exercise

my guess is that Uber and Lyft have been bribing those in the state labor board to not sue for drivers, they like to call it lobbying but it's simply bribing

no driver actually wants to be an employee, but the goal is not to be employees but to get the freedom from the control that Uber and Lyft currently exercise so that we really are independent contractors


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Medallions were sold as the sole right to street hails, period. Uber is doing virtual street hails and paying nothing, period.
> 
> It's truly comical that people regurgitate the false claim that anyone is asking for 'lifelong success.' Any idea how hard and how many years some of these Medallion owners worked toward ownership based on the fact that it was sold as a sole right? Sorry if it's unappealing that taxis _*need*_ to be limited in numbers. That is reality.


Any decision any government makes should be based on *what is best for the public* -- NOT what some industry segment needs for continued success.

*It is not the responsibility of government* to prop up outdated industries. Government has no business limiting opportunity to artificially inflate prices the public must pay in order to benefit taxis, Uber/Lyft et al, or any other special interest group.

Government should work for the people -- not various businesses.

Government should not be in the business of picking economic winners and losers. Every time you have a system like that, it will be thoroughly corrupted (see NYC city government, or Chicago), and will work AGAINST the general public every single time.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Any decision any government makes should be based on *what is best for the public* -- NOT what some industry segment needs for continued success.
> 
> *It is not the responsibility of government* to prop up outdated industries. Government has no business limiting opportunity to artificially inflate prices the public must pay in order to benefit taxis, Uber/Lyft et al, or any other special interest group.
> 
> ...


It's in no way an 'outdated industry.' A tech company lies and claims it's not a taxi service doing street hails because the hail is done (on the street) with an app and they're allowed to get away with it without paying for it. It's a car. A driver. A hail. Spare me the 'outdated' nonsense. Yellow cabs have hailing apps now too.

The limit on taxis was absolutely put in place for the public's safety as well as for drivers and the industry. An unlimited number of cars flooding the streets as we have now means desperation and dangerous drivers with broken down cars. The only reason Uber exists with 10x the number of cars it actually needs is because it's a completely false model which relies on subsidizing 50% of every trip with Billions in new venture capital. Uber loses Billions every single year.

The Medallion system is in place for both the riding public and drivers. Now we're back to where we were post-Depression. Every year more drivers, every year less take home pay. For all sectors of the industry. We're not slaves, you seem to think we should be.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> It's in no way an 'outdated industry.' A tech company lies and claims it's not a taxi service doing street hails because the hail is done (on the street) with an app and they're allowed to get away with it without paying for it. It's a car. A driver. A hail. Spare me the 'outdated' nonsense. Yellow cabs have hailing apps now too.
> 
> The limit on taxis was absolutely put in place for the public's safety as well as for drivers and the industry. An unlimited number of cars flooding the streets as we have now means desperation and dangerous drivers with broken down cars. The only reason Uber exists with 10x the number of cars it actually needs is because it's a completely false model which relies on subsidizing 50% of every trip with Billions in new venture capital. Uber loses Billions every single year.
> 
> The Medallion system is in place for both the riding public and drivers. Now we're back to where we were post-Depression. Every year more drivers, every year less take home pay. For all sectors of the industry. We're not slaves, you seem to think we should be.


Nonsense.

The medallion system is purely a scheme to reduce the supply of for-hire cars on the road. The sole purpose of that reduction is to increase the cost of transportation for consumers and eliminate competition -- from Uber, other taxis, anyone.

The taxi company owners line the pockets of the politicians. The politicians line the pockets of the taxi company owners. The public suffers, and the independent taxi owners suffer.

That's the way the system was designed, and it was working perfectly before Uber. It's still working quite well *for those it was designed to serve* -- the taxi company owners and the corrupt NYC politicians. It has always been thus, and Uber hasn't changed a thing that matters.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> The medallion system is purely a scheme to reduce the supply of for-hire cars on the road. The sole purpose of that reduction is to increase the cost of transportation for consumers and eliminate competition -- from Uber, other taxis, anyone.
> 
> ...


You are incredibly ignorant about this topic.

The Haas Act was put in place post-Depression because the city was flooded with anyone who wanted to be a taxi. It was very dangerous for the public, fights, illegal activity, desperate drivers making no money.

The Medallion system has worked well for 70 years. Owner-operators have incentive to work toward ownership, fleet drivers have flexibility without having to make long term investment.

All of it has worked quite well _*for those who it was designed to serve*_, too. Oversupply serves no one.

You don't even realize there's no such thing as a taxi 'company' in NYC, they're fleet garages.

Uber pays for nothing. There have been six suicides in six months. They were both livery and yellow drivers. The massive oversupply due to Uber's lawlessness and other-worldly corrupting influence on politicians is the sole reason for that. You really think the NYC taxi industry has a fraction of Uber's money and influence? Hilarious.


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## 0XDEADBEEF (Jul 28, 2018)

I heard that Uber Lyft are scaling things. That's how they get to a point where the rides aren't subsidized by vc . They are hoping that an IPO equity in initial investors will pay off(Sequoia angel investors, Bessemer ,etc ) . To attract even more money by way of IPO , they hope that their revenue( from partner fares and charges for lime bike) are going to be less than the expenses within 12-18 months of operations once the IPO hits. They are scaling by buying lime bike etc . Lyft buying bird. They hope to get more revenue by doing more services. Where this puts taxis is not going to be clear cut. The city wants a share by "regulating" Uber lyft. It's a billion dollar industry. It's not going to be easy. Gear up for more debate. It will only drag on till we all are replaced by robots. Put this way initial investors are going to be happy. These guys are rich .....ie the rich get richer. It's not a Ponzi scheme. Maybe for Uber drivers it is . Our car is getting messed up. I don't plan on doing forever.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> All of it has worked quite well _*for those who it was designed to serve*_, too.


The medallion system has worked very well for 70 years for some drivers, and lots of corrupt politicians and owners.

The medallion system never was intended to serve the general public, never did, and never will.



> You don't even realize there's no such thing as a taxi 'company' in NYC, they're fleet garages.


I used the wrong term -- my bad. I should have said "fleet owners," rather than "company owners." BFD.

They're still as corrupt as you can find (Trump's Mr. Fixit lawyer Cohen is a large NYC fleet owner).



> There have been six suicides in six months. They were both livery and yellow drivers.


And how many schoolteachers committed suicide in that period? How many plumbers? How many business executives? How many drug addicts? To try to blame six isolated events in a city of 8.5 million people on something as trivial as competition is just silly.

Suicides are sad events, but they are also very complex personal situations and even the deceased person's family often doesn't know the real reasons why the person took that path.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

jdo1 said:


> As a employee when can you come into work whenever you want? You might want to understand the difference between a contract worker and employee.


Yes. There are some jobs where you are an employee and you work when you want.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> The medallion system has worked very well for 70 years for some drivers, and lots of corrupt politicians and owners.
> 
> The medallion system never was intended to serve the general public, never did, and never will.
> 
> ...


The Medallion system was literally created to serve both the public and drivers. That's what the HAAS ACT was. Research it.

Michael Cohen didn't manage a fleet at all someone else did it for him he just held the Medallion as an asset.

Spare me morbid comparisons on suicide. There's a clear reason why these poor souls chose that route.

You know absolutely nothing about this topic.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Or...the City should require the taxi company OWNERS, who are getting rich off the work of their slaves, to pay those drivers a minimum wage.


Um, cab drivers don't receive wages. I have all kinds of peckish things to say about your intellect, but it would be better if I stuck to "have a nice day".


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> The Medallion system was literally created to serve both the public and drivers. That's what the HAAS ACT was. Research it.


The HAAS Act was signed by Mayor Laguardia in *1937* -- *EIGHTY-ONE YEARS AGO*.

Oh, but it couldn't be an outdated relic of a bygone era or anything! LMAO!

The medallion system and similar schemes in other cities were nothing more than mechanisms to limit opportunity, create monopolies, and line the pockets of politicians. They never had any worthwhile *public* purpose, no matter what some politician claimed.



> Michael Cohen didn't manage a fleet at all someone else did it for him he just held the Medallion as an asset.


Which is exactly what I said -- he's a fleet owner. He is one of the parasites feeding off the public and the drivers.



> There's a clear reason why these poor souls chose that route.


As I said above, those are sad cases and nobody here knows what the actual reasons were. I know you _*want to believe*_ Uber killed them in cold blood, but nobody else believes that.

You're just trying to *use those sad deaths for your own political and financial benefit*...which is lower than low.

*****
The fact is that Uber/Lyft/et al have come up with a better product and have taken some of your business.

They have also vastly expanded the for-hire marketplace. If you look at some of the studies done on the subject, you'll find that only about 30% of rideshare riders were former taxi customers. Most of our pax couldn't afford cabs -- before, or now.

The taxi industry needs to adapt to the new reality -- and they are doing so. The taxi apps you mentioned are one example. In Orlando, the huge Mears transportation company (taxis, buses, shuttles, limos) was just sold by the founding family. The new owners bought Mears specifically because it forms a great foundation for a RIDESHARE business.

Taxi folks can wallow in self-pity or adapt and move on. Most of them are innovating and moving on...but obviously not all of them.


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## RideshareSpectrum (May 12, 2017)

JimKE said:


> THIS is what political corruption looks like...
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/1/17639656/uber-lyft-bailout-nyc-taxi-drivers-cap


Hmmm. I read the article. It looks like UberLyft tried to cloud discussion over regulating the number of rideshare cars allowed in the city by offering to create a $100m bailout fund for taxi medallion holders. They claim it will lead to longer wait times and less money for drivers (bullshit). 
City council said 'no thank you' told them they should create the fund regardless of councils support and may vote on regulation as soon as next week. 
That's sounds like the opposite of political corruption. 
Maybe you read a different article.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> The HAAS Act was signed by Mayor Laguardia in *1937* -- *EIGHTY-ONE YEARS AGO*.
> 
> Oh, but it couldn't be an outdated relic of a bygone era or anything! LMAO!
> 
> ...


Firstly, the reference to 'self pity' in regards to suicide is disgusting. These drivers included livery drivers who saw their business reduced to nothing due to Uber's lawlessness.

Secondly, the current massive oversaturation in which drivers in all sectors are making less every year, is *vindication* of the Haas Act and Medallion system.

Thirdly, the rates Uber charges are based on illegally avoiding the costs everyone else pays and subsidizing 50% of every ride with Billions in VC. And flooding cities with unlimited cars to keep wait times down. It's a false predatory model designed to drive out legitimate business whereby they can then charge whatever they want.

Uber didn't come up with any sort of 'better product.' What they did was break every law then bribe/threaten politicians into changing the laws to suit them.

My comments are strictly regarding NYC. Your posts are by far the most ignorant I have ever seen.



RideshareSpectrum said:


> Hmmm. I read the article. It looks like UberLyft tried to cloud discussion over regulating the number of rideshare cars allowed in the city by offering to create a $100m bailout fund for taxi medallion holders. They claim it will lead to longer wait times and less money for drivers (bullshit).
> City council said 'no thank you' told them they should create the fund regardless of councils support and may vote on regulation as soon as next week.
> That's sounds like the opposite of political corruption.
> Maybe you read a different article.


Yes, exactly.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Firstly, the reference to 'self pity' in regards to suicide is disgusting.


I didn't use "self-pity" in reference to suicide at all. You're the one whining about suicides, not me.

Here is the entire, un-redacted, portion of my post where the term "self-pity" was used. None of this entire section has anything to do with suicide.

_"The fact is that Uber/Lyft/et al have come up with a better product and have taken some of your business.

They have also vastly expanded the for-hire marketplace. If you look at some of the studies done on the subject, you'll find that only about 30% of rideshare riders were former taxi customers. Most of our pax couldn't afford cabs -- before, or now.

The taxi industry needs to adapt to the new reality -- and they are doing so. The taxi apps you mentioned are one example. In Orlando, the huge Mears transportation company (taxis, buses, shuttles, limos) was just sold by the founding family. The new owners bought Mears specifically because it forms a great foundation for a RIDESHARE business.

Taxi folks can wallow in *self-pity* or adapt and move on. Most of them are innovating and moving on...but obviously not all of them."
_
*****
Your attempt to misrepresent my post is typical cry-baby taxi troll tactics.

You'd rather whine than do something productive to actually help yourself, your family, your fellow drivers, or your industry. That kind of mentality is why you're still clinging to your precious medallions and 81 year-old city ordinances as your industry fades into insignificance.

You guys really should join the 21st century. Grow a set. Get a job.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> I didn't use "self-pity" in reference to suicide at all. You're the one whining about suicides, not me.
> 
> Here is the entire, un-redacted, portion of my post where the term "self-pity" was used. None of this entire section has anything to do with suicide.
> 
> ...


They don't have a 'better product.' They have the same product (car/driver) and a massive lack of regulation.

No company on Earth has bribed more politicians or is more corrupt than Uber.

Allow any business to sidestep 90% of the costs associated with their 'competition,' and they will 'succeed.' Make slavery legal again, and slaves will offer a 'superior, innovative' product which people will 'choose' over services which provide a living wage to workers.

The amazing thing about your hateful diatribes is Uber sees you (Human driver) as a temporary _problem_ which they will eliminate ASAP with robot cars. Remember not to cry.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> They don't have a 'better product.' They have the same product (car/driver) and a massive lack of regulation.


Oh, but it IS a better product. It is a MUCH better product. 

MUCH better cars
MUCH cleaner cars
MUCH faster pickup
same average drivers
MUCH less expensive fares
MUCH greater rider satisfaction
MUCH more efficient because of saturation
ALWAYS payable by credit card
ALWAYS email receipts for expense account purposes
ability to rate drivers
ability to appeal to the company if the ride was substandard
ability to dispute credit card charges
more relaxed and friendly drivers who only do this as a side gig without their whole existence depending on it
MUCH better music
...the list goes on and on.
One of the biggest mistakes everyone makes about rideshare _(including the rideshare companies themselves)_ is thinking the attraction of rideshare is cost savings. It's not.

Riders take rideshare because it is a better product in every respect. After all, it's "...your friend with a car!"


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## Uber315 (Apr 11, 2016)

If drivers where to not be manipulated in many ways that Uber does including , trip destination , and wage manipulation then there business model as Independent contractors would not work because they would be short on drivers most of the time!


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Oh, but it IS a better product. It is a MUCH better product.
> 
> MUCH better cars
> MUCH cleaner cars
> ...


All lies. Uber cannot wait to replace you with a robot.

You reap what you sew.



Uber315 said:


> If drivers where to not be manipulated in many ways that Uber does including , trip destination , and wage manipulation then there business model as Independent contractors would not work because they would be short on drivers most of the time!


Only roughly 5% of Uber drivers last more than a year.

As they keep flooding cities with cars, their drivers make less and less. The TLC in NYC just figured how how little Uber drivers make and wants to set a floor of $17/hr since most of them make below minimum wage.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> All lies. Uber cannot wait to replace you with a robot.
> 
> You reap what you sew.
> 
> ...


dude, he's a waste of time. Don't bother. He doesn't do proper research and he's never driven a cab.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> You reap what you sew.


Only if you're a seamstress, lol!


> Only roughly 5% of Uber drivers last more than a year.
> 
> As they keep flooding cities with cars, their drivers make less and less.


Absolutely correct. We all know how the system works. You left out the "taxi drivers also make less and less" part.

But what you guys don't get is that Uber/Lyft works quite well for those of us who only use it as a side gig.

I have a very good retirement income, and I don't need Uber/Lyft or anything else to make ends meet. I drive IF and WHEN I feel like it, for as long as I'm being productive and enjoying myself...and then I go home and have a beer. 5 hours is a LONG shift for me.

I haven't driven in about 8 weeks -- because it's our slow season, I'm busy with other things, etc. I probably won't go back to driving until October, and even then I'll only drive 15-20 hours per week except when there are big events.

I'm not an unusual Uber driver -- there are hundreds of thousands of drivers like me who are either retired or in between jobs. For us, it works just fine.

I'm sure there are lots of things people in the taxi industry could do to improve their prospects. The cry-baby act is not one of them. Those of us who drive rideshare just laugh and shake our heads at the cry-baby stuff from the taxi trolls.

You should do positive, productive things to make your jobs and futures better.

Which reminds me -- the stock market opens in 10 minutes -- gotta go to my other "side gig."


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

jdo1 said:


> We are contract workers for uber this is why we receive a 1099 and not a W2. If we were employees we would need a set schedule of times to work and not when we want to go online.


That is not really true. Uber could still have employees and let drivers choose the hours they wish to work it is called a open schedule and to my knowledge the states do not have laws that prevent this.



jdo1 said:


> So if we supposively were employees we would get a W2....how do you expect that would have on your taxes? Fica taxes will be taken out federal/state withholding and oh btw forget filing a schedule c where mileage deduction would offset most of the income earned. So basically you'll be paying taxes which is worse imo


Yes we would have taxes deducted from our checks but when it comes to social security taxes they would be reduced by 50% and all drivers would still get the mileage deduction and would still be able to deduct all expenses the tax laws still give you everything we already have. But we would be eligible for workers comp and unemployment insurance and Uber would pay about 75% of the cost and that is why they do not want to change anything.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Only if you're a seamstress, lol!
> Absolutely correct. We all know how the system works. You left out the "taxi drivers also make less and less" part.
> 
> But what you guys don't get is that Uber/Lyft works quite well for those of us who only use it as a side gig.
> ...


Hilarious. So you admit it's a scam.

The 'side gig' aspect is crushing their own drivers in NYC, few of whom last a year.

They come out like rats at 5pm and suck up a few rides as a 'side hustle.'

The entire scam is predicated on getting poor suckers to invest in a car then be trapped long enough for Uber to roll off their trips and let them punt the car to the next sucker. Those cars trade hands a dozen times. And none of them are inspected at the TLC Woodside facility (extremely thorough), they pay off a random mechanic for a stamp.

To reiterate: The TLC is now proposing setting a pay floor for TNC drivers since so many are making sub-minumum wage. That's your 'innovation.'


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Hilarious. So you admit it's a scam.


Not a scam, just a different business model -- 

very strong driver recruitment to offset high turnover
heavy saturation to provide more convenient pickups for customers
low fares to generate high volume
no capital investment in vehicles
low operating expenses, rising fares 
-- and at some point, they hope...profits. 
Uber has gone from nothing to a $70 BILLION company in ten years, and they now dominate the for-hire transportation industry. Their plan seems to be working.

Lyft's business plan is to copy Uber, but smile more.


> The 'side gig' aspect is crushing their own drivers in NYC, few of whom last a year. They come out like rats at 5pm and suck up a few rides as a 'side hustle.'


We're ants, not rats.

Uber doesn't care if we only drive for a month -- any more than a taxi fleet owner cares who drives their cars. As long as somebody's behind the wheel and they're making money, they're good. Uber will just recruit more drivers.

And most drivers don't care either. We're not doing this for a career, lol.



> The entire scam is predicated on getting poor suckers to invest in a car then be trapped long enough for Uber to roll off their trips and let them punt the car to the next sucker. Those cars trade hands a dozen times.


Actually, very few drivers buy cars to drive rideshare. We own the cars before we start. For a while, Uber leased cars to drivers but they lost their ass on that dumb idea.

And Uber is making it easier now. They recently extended the vehicle age from 10 to 15 years (at least in Florida), so we can use older cars. That simple move greatly expanded the number of potential ants. Just think about how many 10-15 year old cars there are out there!



> And none of them are inspected at the TLC Woodside facility (extremely thorough), they pay off a random mechanic for a stamp.
> 
> To reiterate: The TLC is now proposing setting a pay floor for TNC drivers since so many are making sub-minumum wage. That's your 'innovation.'


Nobody cares where anyone gets their cars inspected in New York City...or anything else about NYC and its taxi drivers. Only you taxi trolls care about junk like that.

New York City, and specifically the NYC taxi problems, are totally insignificant to 99% of the readers of this rideshare driver forum. We don't dislike you guys; we just don't care one way or the other.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Not a scam, just a different business model --
> 
> very strong driver recruitment to offset high turnover
> heavy saturation to provide more convenient pickups for customers
> ...


And even more comedy.

I'll just reiterate the fact that the TLC determined most NYC Uber drivers are working for sub-minimum wage. It's a scam 'business' which loses 2-4 Billion dollars every year.

Have fun gambling with day trading. Probably a safer bet.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> And even more comedy.
> 
> I'll just reiterate the fact that the TLC determined most NYC Uber drivers are working for sub-minimum wage.


I'll reiterate -- nobody here cares what the NYC TLC says or does. They're important to you, I guess, but not to us. You might get some takers on the UP NYC city forum, but not here.



> It's a scam 'business' which loses 2-4 Billion dollars every year.


Never underestimate the enemy. I think they usually lose more than that, but they have plenty of money, they're already eating your lunch, and they're just getting started.



> Have fun gambling with day trading. Probably a safer bet.


I actually don't enjoy day trading. It's okay once in a while if you have something specific in mind, but it's a boring grind day-to-day. You can make a little money at it, but it's a lot of work. Driving is much easier, except for the crazy Miami drivers.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Not a scam, just a different business model --
> 
> very strong driver recruitment to offset high turnover
> heavy saturation to provide more convenient pickups for customers
> ...


40 billion "valuation". Took a big hit. SoftBank VC couldn't even fix that.
So many mistakes, Jim. Just stop.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> I'll reiterate -- nobody here cares what the NYC TLC says or does. They're important to you, I guess, but not to us. You might get some takers on the UP NYC city forum, but not here.
> 
> Never underestimate the enemy. I think they usually lose more than that, but they have plenty of money, they're already eating your lunch, and they're just getting started.
> 
> I actually don't enjoy day trading. It's okay once in a while if you have something specific in mind, but it's a boring grind day-to-day. You can make a little money at it, but it's a lot of work. Driving is much easier, except for the crazy Miami drivers.


LOL

Uber is in a panic about the proposed NYC cap and the TLC's proposed wage floor.

The topic ITT is NYC, genius.

Amazing that you're still responding to a topic you know nothing about.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> 40 billion "valuation". Took a big hit. SoftBank VC couldn't even fix that.
> So many mistakes, Jim. Just stop.


It's difficult to value Uber because there is so much that is not known about any privately held company. They don't do formal GAAP financial reporting, so it's hard to get accurate estimates.

However, the most recent estimation of Uber's valuation that I've been able to find was in the court case settlement with Waymo/Google in February 2018. The court valued Uber at $72 Billion. The linked story also estimates the valuation at between $70-$72 Billion, but other estimates give a $62 Billion valuation.

Here's a link: https://www.recode.net/2018/2/9/16996834/uber-latest-valuation-72-billion-waymo-lawsuit-settlement

and: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/23/ube...ed-sales-valuation-with-new-tender-offer.html


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

JimKE said:


> It's difficult to value Uber because there is so much that is not known about any privately held company. They don't do formal GAAP financial reporting, so it's hard to get accurate estimates.
> 
> However, the most recent estimation of Uber's valuation that I've been able to find was in the court case settlement with Waymo/Google in February 2018. The court valued Uber at $72 Billion. The linked story also estimates the valuation at between $70-$72 Billion.
> 
> Here's a link: https://www.recode.net/2018/2/9/16996834/uber-latest-valuation-72-billion-waymo-lawsuit-settlement


Courts don't value tech companies- Silicon Valley does.
Ouch, Jim!


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Courts don't value tech companies- Silicon Valley does.
> Ouch, Jim!


The best recent estimate I can find from financial sources estimates Uber's valuation at $62 Billion, up from the artificially discounted basis of $48 Billion granted to Softbank as an incentive for their $1.25 Billion investment in Uber.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/23/ube...ed-sales-valuation-with-new-tender-offer.html

I corrected my above post. If you have some different data, feel free to post a link.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

JimKE said:


> The best recent estimate I can find from financial sources estimates Uber's valuation at $62 Billion, up from the artificially discounted basis of $48 Billion granted to Softbank as an incentive for their $1.25 Billion investment in Uber.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/23/ube...ed-sales-valuation-with-new-tender-offer.html
> 
> I corrected my above post. If you have some different data, feel free to post a link.


SoftBank invested 14 billion into Uber for 9% control (ownership) of the company.
Dude...


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> SoftBank invested 14 billion into Uber for 9% control (ownership) of the company.
> Dude...


lol...looks like we're BOTH wrong! Here's the best I could come up with -- from Fortune:

_SoftBank issued a brief statement Thursday in the name of the CEO of its investment arm, Rajeev Misra. In its entirety it read:

"We are very pleased to have successfully closed the Uber investment and appreciate the support and professionalism of the Board, management team and shareholders who made this transaction possible. Uber has a very bright future under its new leadership. It is now part of a wider SoftBank network ranging from Sprint to WeWork. I look forward to SoftBank helping Uber become an even bigger global success."

Some facts, per Bloomberg:

-*The investment totaled $9.3 billion, partly directly into Uber at a valuation of about $70 billion, partly to buy out other investors at a significant discount. The blended valuation is $54 billion. (A come down but still giant.)
*_
Here's a link: http://fortune.com/2018/01/19/softbank-uber-statement-kalanick/

In another story, CNN said Softbank's investment (which they estimated at $7 Billion to $8.25 Billion, depending on how you interpret the story) and obtained 14-15% of Uber. (https://money.cnn.com/2017/12/28/technology/uber-softbank-investment/index.html)

I personally would put more trust in Fortune/Bloomberg than CNN, and the CNN story is a little confused.

Truth is, none of us really know what Uber is worth.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

JimKE said:


> lol...looks like we're BOTH wrong! Here's the best I could come up with -- from Fortune:
> 
> _SoftBank issued a brief statement Thursday in the name of the CEO of its investment arm, Rajeev Misra. In its entirety it read:
> 
> ...


Those numbers sound believable.


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## Uber315 (Apr 11, 2016)

JimKE said:


> lol...looks like we're BOTH wrong! Here's the best I could come up with -- from Fortune:
> 
> _SoftBank issued a brief statement Thursday in the name of the CEO of its investment arm, Rajeev Misra. In its entirety it read:
> 
> ...


Have you guys not learned that you can't believe the News it's all fake news . Read it In 10 different articals and they are all different.
All I do remember is reading Travis Cashed out 2 Billion USD.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Uber315 said:


> Have you guys not learned that you can't believe the News it's all fake news . Read it In 10 different articals and they are all different.
> All I do remember is reading Travis Cashed out 2 Billion USD.


Well of course. Valuation is all well and good.
But Cash is King.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Open the borders & abolish minimum wage. 

It's what Uber has done to the transportation industry.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

JimKE said:


> THIS is what political corruption looks like...
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/1/17639656/uber-lyft-bailout-nyc-taxi-drivers-cap


It seems like a reasonable compromise when you consider all factors.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jo3030 said:


> Uber and Lyft can't raise _*PAY*_ rates but they can surely do this.


FIFY


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