# I Got Your Advice!



## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

For those of you who have stopped driving for Uber and the ones who never have, it's so kind of you to spend so much time here warning everyone else what a failure this company is.
Now, if you could only get paid for the time you spend here. Oh wait, maybe you already are....
For those of you who legitemly drove and quit or got deactivated, move on with your life. Get over this ex girlfriend of yours and quit being an equivalent to a stalker. Nobody likes a stalker. In other words get a life. I know once i stop driving i won't be hanging around here anymore.
Oh, let's not forget about the disgruntled cab drivers. Your efforts are falling on def ears. The company is still growing and new drivers are added every day. Time for you to figure out "plan B". On the chance the company fails or folds completely, come on back and tell everyone you said so.
In no way am i saying this is a great company to work with but I am accomplishing my personal goals with this second part time income.
When you respond be kind enough to let us know which one you are, the former driver, taxi cab driver or paid basher.






#rattrap


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Nothing wrong with caring for the next generation. Also nothing wrong with dissuading people from the Uber life. Those three weeks where newbs happily lap up every conceivable trip to find out if they can make a living of it, it's like writing Uber a $700 check. Direct transfer from the poorest to the richest, can't blame me for trying to prevent it.

Uber's a bad scene. Informed comment on it is going to be of a _negative_ flavor. And the Uber-haters don't even say you _can't _make fair money driving Uber. Just that a significant portion, a plurality of drivers probably don't.

If circumstance forces you to drive for Uber more than you'd like to, you have every excuse. You need the cash. So drive without shame. But we can't stop advising people with a choice not to make this one.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

troubleinrivercity said:


> Nothing wrong with caring for the next generation. Also nothing wrong with dissuading people from the Uber life. Those three weeks where newbs happily lap up every conceivable trip to find out if they can make a living of it, it's like writing Uber a $700 check. Direct transfer from the poorest to the richest, can't blame me for trying to prevent it.
> 
> Uber's a bad scene. Informed comment on it is going to be of a _negative_ flavor. And the Uber-haters don't even say you _can't _make fair money driving Uber. Just that a significant portion, a plurality of drivers probably don't.
> 
> If circumstance forces you to drive for Uber more than you'd like to, you have every excuse. You need the cash. So drive without shame. But we can't stop advising people with a choice not to make this one.


Just for better understanding, are you a former driver, taxi cab driver or paid basher?


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Former PT driver, still on the system and chronic surge checker.
Sometimes I flirt with getting a cab lease, and then remember that the people in LA would definitely beat my ass.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> For those of you who have stopped driving for Uber and the ones who never have, it's so kind of you to spend so much time here warning everyone else what a failure this company is.
> Now, if you could only get paid for the time you spend here. Oh wait, maybe you already are....
> For those of you who legitemly drove and quit or got deactivated, move on with your life. Get over this ex girlfriend of yours and quit being an equivalent to a stalker. Nobody likes a stalker. In other words get a life. I know once i stop driving i won't be hanging around here anymore.
> Oh, let's not forget about the disgruntled cab drivers. Your efforts are falling on def ears. The company is still growing and new drivers are added every day. Time for you to figure out "plan B". On the chance the company fails or folds completely, come on back and tell everyone you said so.
> ...


Trying your very hardest to silence dissent it seems

You look more like a shill for Uber than just about anyone else.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> Trying your very hardest to silence dissent it seems
> 
> You look more like a shill for Uber than just about anyone else.


Actually i didn't make much effort at all. And did you notice i didn't have much positive to say about Uber either? Just wondering what kind of idiot that has no affiliation with Uber, would spend so much time and effort trying to discourage others. Why waste your free time here? There are plenty of charities and organizations that could use unpaid volunteers. Check your local listings.
I'm not trying to talk anybody into driving for Uber and i'm not talking up the company either. Maybe you have me confused with someone else


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

The people that are disgruntled are the ones trying to make this a full time gig. If you try and make this a full time gig your not gonna profit much. But part timing this is quite perfect as it eliminates some heavy costs (because you have a FT job that covers most of it). 

Don't do this full time..


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## Bob Salas (May 5, 2015)

Is any driver with Uber making any money? This site seems to indicate that no one is making any money.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Bob Salas said:


> Is any driver with Uber making any money? This site seems to indicate that no one is making any money.


I profit between 30 and 40%


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> For those of you who have stopped driving for Uber and the ones who never have, it's so kind of you to spend so much time here warning everyone else what a failure this company is.
> Now, if you could only get paid for the time you spend here. Oh wait, maybe you already are....
> For those of you who legitemly drove and quit or got deactivated, move on with your life. Get over this ex girlfriend of yours and quit being an equivalent to a stalker. Nobody likes a stalker. In other words get a life. I know once i stop driving i won't be hanging around here anymore.
> Oh, let's not forget about the disgruntled cab drivers. Your efforts are falling on def ears. The company is still growing and new drivers are added every day. Time for you to figure out "plan B". On the chance the company fails or folds completely, come on back and tell everyone you said so.
> ...


The only thing negative I might say to newbies is to avoid taking out loans and leases. I don't there's anything wrong with trying out uber/lyft part time, and purchasing the cheapest vehicle possible.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Bob Salas said:


> Is any driver with Uber making any money? This site seems to indicate that no one is making any money.


I would say apply common sense. Open the rider app, if you see cars driving around they are probably making money otherwise they wouldn't be out there.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Lidman said:


> The only thing negative I might say to newbies is to avoid taking out loans and leases. I don't there's anything wrong with trying out uber/lyft part time, and purchasing the cheapest vehicle possible.


That's solid advice.


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## thehappytypist (Oct 9, 2014)

Former drivers have valid opinions and valuable experience, you aren't the sole arbiter of what's relevant and/or useful.

This exact same thing happens on a forum where CSRs hang out. We either like Uber or hate it and the two sides clash constantly. One side bashes the other for being too negative, they return fire asking who are they to tell anyone what to post on the boards. Eh. Live and let live.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Telling someone who is excited about the "good Money" they will make when they drive for Uber the truth falls on deaf ears.

It reminds me of telling my then 16 year old daughter that a puppy was not a good idea... it would live 12-14 years and make life hard when she wants to rent an apartment or travel... that it was
better to wait until she knew her life was stable to give the pet a good home.

the dogs name is Jack.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

thehappytypist said:


> Former drivers have valid opinions and valuable experience, you aren't the sole arbiter of what's relevant and/or useful.
> 
> This exact same thing happens on a forum where CSRs hang out. We either like Uber or hate it and the two sides clash constantly. One side bashes the other for being too negative, they return fire asking who are they to tell anyone what to post on the boards. Eh. Live and let live.


Fair enough, but what's the purpose of hanging around your old employer or your old boyfriends house handing out your opinion? Couldn't the time be spent more wisely or more productive?
By the way, i'm not talking about those who post good valid information and are genuinely trying to help others. I'm talking about those who just constantly bash without any rhyme or reason.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

What about unpaid ex-cab driver basher


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> What about unpaid ex-cab driver basher


Damn, leave up to you to make things all confusing and stuff!


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> Telling someone who is excited about the "good Money" they will make when they drive for Uber the truth falls on deaf ears.
> 
> It reminds me of telling my then 16 year old daughter that a puppy was not a good idea... it would live 12-14 years and make life hard when she wants to rent an apartment or travel... that it was
> better to wait until she knew her life was stable to give the pet a good home.
> ...


Exactly, people tend to learn on there own and usually the hard way. How is YOUR dog doing?


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> What about unpaid ex-cab driver basher


Good question. He went to become a florist at our local 'Flowerama'.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Damn, leave up to you to make things all confusing and stuff!


I think I clarified it for him.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Good question. He went to become a florist at our local 'Flowerama'.


Ex-cab driver that likes to bash for free

Do they need to register ?


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

thehappytypist said:


> Former drivers have valid opinions and valuable experience, you aren't the sole arbiter of what's relevant and/or useful.
> 
> This exact same thing happens on a forum where CSRs hang out. We either like Uber or hate it and the two sides clash constantly. One side bashes the other for being too negative, they return fire asking who are they to tell anyone what to post on the boards. Eh. Live and let live.


 I would love to see that forum.. can you pm me a link?


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## thehappytypist (Oct 9, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Fair enough, but what's the purpose of hanging around your old employer or your old boyfriends house handing out your opinion? Couldn't the time be spent more wisely or more productive?
> By the way, i'm not talking about those who post good valid information and are genuinely trying to help others. I'm talking about those who just constantly bash without any rhyme or reason.


I actually have done that with past employers that I left, I hung around the WAH forum for that company to post and offer advice. Bashing isn't productive, I'll agree there, but sharing experience and advice is useful even if I'm not with the company any longer. With at home companies it's more like what is the management like, how is communication, what are the expectations, is pay good, etc. Most don't tell you until the interview what the pay is.

I don't agree with instances where someone new/curious about Uber are jumped on for considering it. However, given there will probably be an upfront investment and they can end up losing money, whatever information they can get is helpful, current driver or not.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Ex-cab driver that likes to bash for free
> 
> Do they need to register ?


Only on Wednesdays.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> For those of you who have stopped driving for Uber and the ones who never have, it's so kind of you to spend so much time here warning everyone else what a failure this company is.
> Now, if you could only get paid for the time you spend here. Oh wait, maybe you already are....
> For those of you who legitemly drove and quit or got deactivated, move on with your life. Get over this ex girlfriend of yours and quit being an equivalent to a stalker. Nobody likes a stalker. In other words get a life. I know once i stop driving i won't be hanging around here anymore.
> Oh, let's not forget about the disgruntled cab drivers. Your efforts are falling on def ears. The company is still growing and new drivers are added every day. Time for you to figure out "plan B". On the chance the company fails or folds completely, come on back and tell everyone you said so.
> ...


The building is on fire. I got burned but I got out.

Now according to you, I should just let everyone else run in and get burned instead of warning them.

That's pretty selfish.

If you are one of the brain-dead that can't figure out that Uber is a multi-billion dollar company preying on the inexperienced and uneducated while making themselves stinking rich by using deceptive marketing practices, then by all means, continue to the flames.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Bob Salas said:


> Is any driver with Uber making any money? This site seems to indicate that no one is making any money.


It's comes down to what you mean by "Making Money". If you mean, making a profit, NO. No one is making a profit and anyone thinking so is foolishly kidding themselves. You are however converting the depreciation and destruction of your personal vehicle into cash. So if you need cash, it's probably as good as selling your car. But it doesn't required as much free work to sell your car.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> The building is on fire. I got burned but I got out.
> 
> Now according to you, I should just let everyone else run in and get burned instead of warning them.
> 
> ...


That would be a great example only it's not even in the same hemisphere. There's no need to get out a burning building if you're not in it to begin with.
I'm not telling anyone to run into a burning building, that's where common sense comes to play. However in my experience Uber is not a burning building. You most likely have no experience at all with Uber and if you have you probably didn't have enough common sense to make it work. That's ok, we weren't all born with common sense so it's not your fault.
You have to be smart about it and have some kind of strategy otherwise you will fail just like you did and others here. On the other hand there are some people here who are actually making money. Sorry you didn't.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> It's comes down to what you mean by "Making Money". If you mean, making a profit, NO. No one is making a profit and anyone thinking so is foolishly kidding themselves. You are however converting the depreciation and destruction of your personal vehicle into cash. So if you need cash, it's probably as good as selling your car. But it doesn't required as much free work to sell your car.


The "converting depreciation for cash" is one of my favorites you bashers like to bring to the table. But i have a question that none of you have been able to answer. What if you bought the car outright for $1,000 then what? #2. what if i my car is worth $10,000 and i "convert that to cash". So now i have $10,000 in converted depreciation in your words and now what? I can A.) sell my car and anything i make is a plus or i can B.) keep driving the car and make another $10,000 and now go into negative depreciation? How do you spin those facts i'm eager to know?


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

thehappytypist said:


> I actually have done that with past employers that I left, I hung around the WAH forum for that company to post and offer advice. Bashing isn't productive, I'll agree there, but sharing experience and advice is useful even if I'm not with the company any longer. With at home companies it's more like what is the management like, how is communication, what are the expectations, is pay good, etc. Most don't tell you until the interview what the pay is.
> 
> I don't agree with instances where someone new/curious about Uber are jumped on for considering it. However, given there will probably be an upfront investment and they can end up losing money, whatever information they can get is helpful, current driver or not.


That a girl Happy! You tell em!!!


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

The cheap car is the answer 
It virtually eliminates depreciation


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> The "converting depreciation for cash" is one of my favorites you bashers like to bring to the table. But i have a question that none of you have been able to answer. What if you bought the car outright for $1,000 then what? #2. what if i my car is worth $10,000 and i "convert that to cash". So now i have $10,000 in converted depreciation in your words and now what? I can A.) sell my car and anything i make is a plus or i can B.) keep driving the car and make another $10,000 and now go into negative depreciation? How do you spin those facts i'm eager to know?


Tricky question, but a good one. I'd go with A which would be a sure thing. B. I wouldn't bank on making that much from uber, not knowing what stunts they pull in the future.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> The "converting depreciation for cash" is one of my favorites you bashers like to bring to the table. But i have a question that none of you have been able to answer. What if you bought the car outright for $1,000 then what? #2. what if i my car is worth $10,000 and i "convert that to cash". So now i have $10,000 in converted depreciation in your words and now what? I can A.) sell my car and anything i make is a plus or i can B.) keep driving the car and make another $10,000 and now go into negative depreciation? How do you spin those facts i'm eager to know?


You've outsmarted us all. Congrats!

I would give you a serious answer but it is obvious you aren't really looking for it. You've made up your mind that you are the one. If you are truly interested in a real rebuttal, by all means, correct me and I'll give you the real answer.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Tricky question, but a good one. I'd go with A which would be a sure thing. B. I wouldn't bank on making that much from uber, not knowing what stunts they pull in the future.


That's a good point, we never know what is around the corner when it comes to Uber and the whole ride share industry. But those who started driving 3 years ago when the company started didn't know either. True they've seen the rates constantly decline but even someone who started a year ago could have made the value of their car and then some.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> You've outsmarted us all. Congrats!
> 
> I would give you a serious answer but it is obvious you aren't really looking for it. You've made up your mind that you are the one. If you are truly interested in a real rebuttal, by all means, correct me and I'll give you the real answer.


Go ahead don't be selfish. Put your response here so you could help prevent everyone from running into that burning building.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Great! Here goes whether you want it or not. As I stated, you've already made up your mind so this is a futile effort. But maybe someone else will glean a bit from it and avoid being taken advantage of.

1. That $1,000 car is already a POS. It is near the end of it's life expenctacy or you would not have picked it up for that little. Which means, since there is no depreciation left, you are in the "repair mode". Your repair costs to keep the car in a safe operating condition are going to go through the roof. With increased use for Uber, those repairs are going to be needed much more frequently. Ever wonder why rental car companies sell off their 3 to 5 year old cars? They have the numbers to prove the "repair mode" is more costly than new depreciation. I know, you're going to tell me that you got the perfect car that never wears out. Great. So everyone can go get that perfect POS car.

So now you're making it work with the POS car. You're making money by beating the system. Everyone says, that's a great idea and follows your advice and gets a $1,000 POS car. Uber decides that the service is taking a hit because of POS cars and changes the requirements. Your out. Until you upgrade your car. 

Point - it's not a sustainable solution for the entire Uber driving force. 

2. Your $10,000 car is depreciating. The actual numbers, real ones - not fake created to make an illusion of profit - is that you need $2/mile minimum from Uber to recoup your operating costs before you make a dime in profit. Anything less and you are effectively paying Uber to drive. I've already prepared the spreadsheet to prove it using empirical data. So you spend the time working for free, converting your depreciation into cash, donating to Uber until you've recouped that depreciation.

Now guess what? Somewhere in there, that $10,000 car just became the $1,000 car because it is now a POS because it has been destroyed driving for Uber. See the cycle? You continue, see item #1.

Uber is a multi-billion dollar corporation preying on the inexperienced and uneducated with deceptive marketing to enrich itself at the expense of those drivers. 

If you choose to donate your car or time to Uber so they can become increasingly wealthy at your expense, go for it! No one is going to stop you.


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## Teksaz (Mar 16, 2015)

Show us some numbers UberDude2 . You talk a good game but you haven't put your money where your mouth is. Show us the $$$$$

Show us some stats, and numbers. Share with everyone. Show us all that money you're making. We're all very interested in seeing it.

And I'm sure you're driving without proper insurance, but who cares, until you're wiped out after an accident, or is Uber gonna come through for you. lol


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> You have to be smart about it and have some kind of strategy otherwise you will fail just like you did and others here. On the other hand there are some people here who are actually making money. Sorry you didn't.


There should be NO NEED for a special strategy to "work" the system to make money. It's simple. Every driver should be able to make money if rates were reasonable. If not, something is wrong. It shouldn't be just a handful of drivers who have figured out ways around the system.

That's why there have been and still are so many lawsuits against Uber because the system (rates primarily) as it stands simply doesn't work well. Don't get me wrong, it could. But Uber has chosen to ignore that for their own huge profits.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Great! Here goes whether you want it or not. As I stated, you've already made up your mind so this is a futile effort. But maybe someone else will glean a bit from it and avoid being taken advantage of.
> 
> 1. That $1,000 car is already a POS. It is near the end of it's life expenctacy or you would not have picked it up for that little. Which means, since there is no depreciation left, you are in the "repair mode". Your repair costs to keep the car in a safe operating condition are going to go through the roof. With increased use for Uber, those repairs are going to be needed much more frequently. Ever wonder why rental car companies sell off their 3 to 5 year old cars? They have the numbers to prove the "repair mode" is more costly than new depreciation. I know, you're going to tell me that you got the perfect car that never wears out. Great. So everyone can go get that perfect POS car.
> 
> ...


Epic fail but valid attempt. NOTHING is sustainable. Not life, not the house you live in nothing. PERIOD. 
There is a perfect example of someone here who bought a car to drive just for Uber, a POS as you say. Fact is they bought the car for $1000. Fact is they only drive when it's surging. Fact is they recouped the $1,000 in two weeks max. Fact is they are still driving said vehicle and still making money. At this point if the wheels all fall off he is making money. But we know that won't happen.
In your second example we already established that the car is depreciating. We know that. All you did was repeat the first message without answering the question. That's called smoke screening. I will make $20,000 from driving my car for Uber long before it's devalued to $1000. In fact, since i drive the car to my full time job it enables me to make money there as well. Add the two incomes together and the car has served it's purpose. I could donate the car to charity but i'll take the $x,000 i will get when i sell it. Even if it was a POS at that point.
You're attempt was weak at best. You didn't enlighten us with anything at all. Go back to the drawing board. Hey i have an idea, why don't you go the route of the insurance thing like a lot of the other bashers here do. You might have better luck with that argument.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

I worked 9 years 5 different cab companies

The taxi kingpin is no different than uber

The vicious cycle is nearly identical

There are actually more dirty tricks internally in cab service

Cab driving can be profitable for some

I belive UberDude2

Key word works for some


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Teksaz said:


> Show us some numbers UberDude2 . You talk a good game but you haven't put your money where your mouth is. Show us the $$$$$
> 
> Show us some stats, and numbers. Share with everyone. Show us all that money you're making. We're all very interested in seeing it.
> 
> And I'm sure you're driving without proper insurance, but who cares, until you're wiped out after an accident, or is Uber gonna come through for you. lol


Ha ha, i hadn't even finished my last message and low an behold here comes the "other" argument about insurance. I don't claim to be making a bunch of money but it's enough to serve me well. That's all i'm worried about. Not trying to prove anything to you. In fact i asked your buddy to prove a claim to me not the other way around. For the record i'm not making a ton of money so let's take the hot air out of that argument right now. If you want to see my take on the insurance deal you can go over to the insurance thread. I posted my opinion there. Have a nice day ladies.


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## Hunchback High (May 14, 2015)

J. D. said:


> Great! Here goes whether you want it or not. As I stated, you've already made up your mind so this is a futile effort. But maybe someone else will glean a bit from it and avoid being taken advantage of.
> 
> 1. That $1,000 car is already a POS. It is near the end of it's life expenctacy or you would not have picked it up for that little. Which means, since there is no depreciation left, you are in the "repair mode". Your repair costs to keep the car in a safe operating condition are going to go through the roof. With increased use for Uber, those repairs are going to be needed much more frequently. Ever wonder why rental car companies sell off their 3 to 5 year old cars? They have the numbers to prove the "repair mode" is more costly than new depreciation. I know, you're going to tell me that you got the perfect car that never wears out. Great. So everyone can go get that perfect POS car.
> 
> ...


This is a genuine question. Where do you get the $2/mile minimum from Uber recovery number? AAA has done a survey since 1950 and claim the cost (depreciation, insurance, maintenance) average 59.2 cents for sedans. What additional costs do people need to consider to get to the $2/mile?


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

My car is 6 years old. It was in perfect condition. It breaks my heart. In the 2 months of weekend driving, I've gotten 2 huge door dings where there were none (caused by careless passengers opening into objects), ruined floor mats from tracking in snow, mud, and who knows what else, a broken seat belt cover, spilled liquids on my interior cloth seats, and now my automatic sliding doors are starting to falter from excessive use. It's not NORMAL wear and tear. It is not worth destroying my car for the paltry cash I get from Uber.

If you want to "invest" into that $1,000 POS car so it can be destroyed, it may work for a short period. But it will ultimately fail and is not a sustainable solution.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> There should be NO NEED for a special strategy to "work" the system to make money. It's simple. Every driver should be able to make money if rates were reasonable. If not, something is wrong. It shouldn't be just a handful of drivers who have figured out ways around the system.
> 
> That's why there have been and still are so many lawsuits against Uber because the system (rates primarily) as it stands simply doesn't work well. Don't get me wrong, it could. But Uber has chosen to ignore that for their own huge profits.


OK i'll respond to this one last issue for you because maybe you've been under a rock. There are two ways to drive and come out ahead. Either drive only when it's surging or drive the guarantee rates.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> OK i'll respond to this one last issue for you because maybe you've been under a rock. There are two ways to drive and come out ahead. Either drive only when it's surging or drive the guarantee rates.


So you agree that driving under standards rates during non-peak hours is a losing proposition? This is my problem. It shouldn't be.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

A little contrast

TML= to meet lease

2003
Weekly lease single driver. = 450.00
Fuel needed TML = 85.00
Cellphone average TML. = 15.00
Meals, Coffey,Cigs,etc.TML= 40.00
----------------------------------------------
Weekly Grand total = 590.00
Optional bribe dispatch. = 50.00
___________________________
New grand total. =640.00


590.00 was your break even point

You had to pay it wether you got any bussiness from dispatch or not

Unless you bribed 50.00 to dispatch you were screwed

On Monday you either handed over the cash or the Keys


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

What ever you made after you meat lease was yours

What ever you made after came witn its own
Fuel , cellphone , meals etc. cost


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Hunchback High said:


> This is a genuine question. Where do you get the $2/mile minimum from Uber recovery number? AAA has done a survey since 1950 and claim the cost (depreciation, insurance, maintenance) average 59.2 cents for sedans. What additional costs do people need to consider to get to the $2/mile?


I've been gathering empirical data from Uber drivers for a potential lawsuit. If not for that, I would post the spreadsheets for everyone. Uber has angered me beyond any company ever. I intend to right some wrongs, even if many don't even see that they have been wronged, which to me, is the real crime. It's hidden very well but Uber knows it. Convincing people that they have been wronged is not always easy when they have already made up their minds that they've outsmarted the system.

There are huge additional costs that are not in the AAA numbers. Those numbers are for a rental car and business use, not a taxi/rideshare service. 

That rate includes all mileage, paid and unpaid, for use of your car. If you collect $2/mile for paid miles, it will offset the upaid miles.

The wear on your car doors, upholstery, carpets, seat rails, seat belts, tires, shocks, brakes, engine and transmission is compressed by the hundreds of people entering and exiting by a factor of 10x over standard depreciation.

You must carry additional insurance or risk being denied for accident claims. (This number may be a bit egregious because it is a combination of increased insurance for those who carry it and the costs associated with out-of-pocket repairs borne by those who choose not to carry the additional insurance, but it is an empirical number, not theoretical.)

Idling while waiting on passengers (or between rides) without incurring miles is deterioration to your engine and additional fuel that isn't covered in standard mileage costs.
Additional car body damage repair costs below the insurance limits caused by careless passengers that are out-of-pocket expense to the driver.

Additional numbers include working time for the driver which is not part of the paid service. Such as preparation for driving time (cleaning, purchasing water, etc), record keeping and tax preparation costs (which I've discovered almost no one actually does), taxes, fees, licenses, and other expenses not reimbursable (car inspections, physicals, etc).

People tend to only see the hard costs... gas, oil changes. It is a business and at the Uber rates, it is not sustainable. Every driver, no matter how they "think" they've beaten the system, is losing money under the current rates including occasional surge, when ALL factors are considered and Uber is well aware of it. They are exploiting it for their own profit. It is plain wrong even if some people can't see it.

Additionally, calling drivers Independent Contractors is a dodge tactic to exempt Uber from paying for workers compensation, social security/medicare, and for not having to comply with Federal and local Minimum Wage laws.

There is a lot more but this should be enough to demonstrate that I am serious and Uber is just wrong, even if you've figured out how to "beat" their system.


----------



## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> So you agree that driving under standards rates during non-peak hours is a losing proposition? This is my problem. It shouldn't be.


I'm saying that's up to each individual person to assess. I personally don't find myself in a position to settle for standard rates. If i had a $1,000 POS then sure, that would make it an easier decision.
Of course we always want more. If they were raising the rates no driver is going to scream for them to stop raising rates. 
But going back to your original post. If the rates got to a level that i didn't feel comfortable driving at, i wouldn't be here telling people to get out of the burning building. If someone is already in the burning building and they can't feel the heat of the lowered rates, who am i to tell them to get out? It's not like they don't know it's burning. They get a pay check every week.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> I'm saying that's up to each individual person to assess. I personally don't find myself in a position to settle for standard rates. If i had a $1,000 POS then sure, that would make it an easier decision.
> Of course we always want more. If they were raising the rates no driver is going to scream for them to stop raising rates.
> But going back to your original post. If the rates got to a level that i didn't feel comfortable driving at, i wouldn't be here telling people to get out of the burning building. If someone is already in the burning building and they can't feel the heat of the lowered rates, who am i to tell them to get out? It's not like they don't know it's burning. They get a pay check every week.


There in lies the problem. Newly recruited drivers don't know the building is burning. They've been shown a picture of a shiny new glass mile-high skyscrapper and told it can be theirs. Go on it....


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> The cheap car is the answer
> It virtually eliminates depreciation





20yearsdriving said:


> A little contrast
> 
> TML= to meet lease
> 
> ...


You could bribe dispatch? Brilliant!


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

So if my efforts to get rate increases for EVERYONE, and everyone begins to earn more money, will all those who called me foolish give the money back to Uber?

It's rhetorical...


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> There in lies the problem. Newly recruited drivers don't know the building is burning. They've been shown a picture of a shiny new glass mile-high skyscrapper and told it can be theirs. Go on it....


That sounds nice but that wasn't your initial insult to me. Here is how you came to this thread....
*"The building is on fire. I got burned but I got out.
Now according to you, I should just let everyone else run in and get burned instead of warning them.
That's pretty selfish."*

This is intimating that on my way out i didn't tell anyone else how bad it is or was. #1. I'm not on my way out. #2. The Uber situation is not all that bad for me. #3 and most important, I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture for anyone and i'm not in the business of recruiting either.
Everyone can assess the situation for themselves. Weigh the good and the bad. They don't need my help. The numbers are real. The rates are public knowledge and each person knows there on personal finances including those that pertain to the car they will use to drive Uber.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> So if my efforts to get rate increases for EVERYONE, and everyone begins to earn more money, will all those who called me foolish give the money back to Uber?
> 
> It's rhetorical...


How did insulting me become part of your plan to raise rates?


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> How did insulting me become part of your plan to raise rates?


Seriously, how did I insult you?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

J. D. said:


> So if my efforts to get rate increases for EVERYONE, and everyone begins to earn more money, will all those who called me foolish give the money back to Uber?
> 
> It's rhetorical...


I've said before I'm not a fan of UBER

Rate increase is a must


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> I've said before in not a fan of UBER
> 
> Rate increase is a must


If they raised the rates i wouldn't say no thank you i'm good.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> Epic fail but valid attempt. NOTHING is sustainable. Not life, not the house you live in nothing. PERIOD.
> There is a perfect example of someone here who bought a car to drive just for Uber, a POS as you say. Fact is they bought the car for $1000. Fact is they only drive when it's surging. Fact is they recouped the $1,000 in two weeks max. Fact is they are still driving said vehicle and still making money. At this point if the wheels all fall off he is making money. But we know that won't happen.
> In your second example we already established that the car is depreciating. We know that. All you did was repeat the first message without answering the question. That's called smoke screening. I will make $20,000 from driving my car for Uber long before it's devalued to $1000. In fact, since i drive the car to my full time job it enables me to make money there as well. Add the two incomes together and the car has served it's purpose. I could donate the car to charity but i'll take the $x,000 i will get when i sell it. Even if it was a POS at that point.
> You're attempt was weak at best. You didn't enlighten us with anything at all. Go back to the drawing board. Hey i have an idea, why don't you go the route of the insurance thing like a lot of the other bashers here do. You might have better luck with that argument.


As I have said many times, you've already made up your mind. Futile...


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> I've said before I'm not a fan of UBER
> 
> Rate increase is a must


Hey 20!

My point simplified. Thank you.

My problem is the brain-dead Uber cheerleaders that get on here and brag about making big bucks at the current low rates. It's an illusion but well hidden by Uber. No driver is REALLY making a profit right now, I don't care how they try to twist it. They hurt the whole industry. Watch me make this car disappear....

My thoughts toward Uber are much more bitter because they know EXACTLY what they are doing. A disillusioned driver may actually think he's making bank but it's because of the Uber deceptions and their complete disregard for the plight driver which is the center point of the company. I'm going after them.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> I've been gathering empirical data from Uber drivers for a potential lawsuit. If not for that, I would post the spreadsheets for everyone. Uber has angered me beyond any company ever. I intend to right some wrongs, even if many don't even see that they have been wronged, which to me, is the real crime. It's hidden very well but Uber knows it. Convincing people that they have been wronged is not always easy when they have already made up their minds that they've outsmarted the system.
> 
> There are huge additional costs that are not in the AAA numbers. Those numbers are for a rental car and business use, not a taxi/rideshare service.
> 
> ...


I guess by your own admission you are just smarter then everyone else. Good luck with the lawsuit. Let us know how it goes.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> I guess by your own admission you are just smarter then everyone else. Good luck with the lawsuit. Let us know how it goes.


Not smarter than everyone else, just the few...

I had to go back to see what you meant by insulting you. I guess it because you started this thread as an insult to us, you know, the stalkers. It seems to be perfectly fine with you for a multi-billion dollar company to gain huge profits by manipulation and deception. so we should just "move on" as you put it.

This company is hugely financially successful, not drivers, for now, but at what expense? Sorry you don't see it.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Hey 20!
> 
> My point simplified. Thank you.
> 
> ...


You saw how rigged cab bussiness was back in 2003

What happens is I can relate to people that have made it work for them
I did my self

Your point is valid
I dont think anyone here is a UBER fan

I get your point

Now until change happens why
Argue among us

Some have figured strategic advantages ,
For them change may not be good at all
I can respect that Darwinian choice

Personally I've learned to survive in any system

When uber dropped rates I was terrified ( that's why I joined this forum)

Against my own fears bussiness has been good
Surprisingly I leaned to survive in the new UBER era

What ever works for you I'm in
See my other posts

I'm PRO drivers across the board

I'm PRO customer IMO 99% of customers are great ( UBER customers seen to be a new phenomenon )
I hear they can be pretty bad ?? I'll stay neutral on that


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

By the way, I love your tag line. I'm not smart enough yet to come up with one.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Not smarter than everyone else, just the few...
> 
> I had to go back to see what you meant by insulting you. I guess it because you started this thread as an insult to us, you know, the stalkers. It seems to be perfectly fine with you for a multi-billion dollar company to gain huge profits by manipulation and deception. so we should just "move on" as you put it.
> 
> This company is hugely financially successful, not drivers, for now, but at what expense? Sorry you don't see it.


You mean you commented on the thread without even knowing the subject at hand. Not very responsible of you. 
I thank you for your concern. I already said, i'm not making a lot of money driving for Uber but i make enough to help my situation. And by no means am i a cheerleader for Uber. It is what is. It didn't work for you. It's working for me. I'll leave it at that. I really wish you luck in your lawsuit.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> By the way, I love your tag line. I'm not smart enough yet to come up with one.


Thank you, i'll take that compliment even if it was backhanded.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> You saw how rigged cab bussiness was back in 2003
> 
> What happens is I can relate to people that have made it work for them
> I did my self
> ...


Sorry if I've come off against drivers. Furthest from the truth. I'm all for the driver. Uber wouldn't exist without the drivers.
I'm against Uber's deceptive practices and one of them is when they create the illusion that drivers are making profits under their new rates. It's simply not true. It may take a year or two before those that have been deceived realize that they have to subsidize their Uber job from another one to keep their car on the road. Hopefully, I can make an impact before that year or two passes. Who knows?


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> You saw how rigged cab bussiness was back in 2003
> 
> What happens is I can relate to people that have made it work for them
> I did my self
> ...


Nicely said. My thoughts are along the same lines.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> Thank you, i'll take that compliment even if it was backhanded.


All true... I have no creativity. Pure numbers to me.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> I worked 9 years 5 different cab companies
> 
> The taxi kingpin is no different than uber
> 
> ...


Hey 20, with your experience, how do cab drivers truly make money?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Hey 20, with your experience, how do cab drivers truly make money?


A bit of one or a few of these

Personal customer base : cherry pick customers to your cellphone

Massive hours

Owning a circuit : numerous hotels desk clerks on payroll

Bribe dispatch : for the company you work with & other companies

Strip club exclusive driver

Directing customers to desired : vice in general

Transportation of people with unverified documents or unkown contents in luggage

Not all drivers participate on these and other activities
But I know many that did

Also scan ( with police scanner) other cab companies to steal customers


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

J. D. said:


> I've been gathering empirical data from Uber drivers for a potential lawsuit.


On the topic of potential lawsuit against Uber, did you opt-out of the Binding Arbitration clause during the first 30 days of being onboarded?
A vast majority of Drivers have never even read the Partnership Agreement, let alone Opt-out of Binding Arbitration. So pool of Drivers who might join a class action lawsuit against Uber is fairly small.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> On the topic of potential lawsuit against Uber, did you opt-out of the Binding Arbitration clause during the first 30 days of being onboarded?
> A vast majority of Drivers have never even read the Partnership Agreement, let alone Opt-out of Binding Arbitration. So pool of Drivers who might join a class action lawsuit against Uber is fairly small.


I did not opt-out but according to my attorney, it is a non-issue. I dunno. I'm not a lawyer.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

J. D. said:


> I did not opt-out but according to my attorney, it is a non-issue. I dunno. I'm not a lawyer.


It is a major issue. First you'd have to fight Uber on a court, rather than arbitration, being the right venue for your claim. And it would be difficult to find attorneys willing to fight Uber in court on contingency basis when the potential class of Drivers eligible to join a lawsuit is very small.

Some links for you:
*Drivers' Last Chance To Opt-out of Binding Arbitration

(Updated) Juries To Decide Landmark Cases Against Uber and Lyft*

*Uber Law Suit Update*


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> Ha ha,
> Have a nice day ladies.


UberDude!

Thanks for the great banter. It's was exciting. I'm glad you've found a way to make things work for you. Hopefully soon you'll be able to make more. Uber is a genius concept and can be very profitable for everyone.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> UberDude!
> 
> Thanks for the great banter. It's was exciting. I'm glad you've found a way to make things work for you. Hopefully soon you'll be able to make more. Uber is a genius concept and can be very profitable for everyone.


I read a story earlier today regarding driverless cars. They are making real progress with them. Pretty soon we won't have much to banter over as far as driving goes, the cars will be driving themselves!
I really do wish you luck with your lawsuit. It's not coming out of my pocket and as of now i don't plan to purchase any Uber stock when they go public, so i hope you get everything you ask for.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> I read a story earlier today regarding drivers less cars. They are making real progress with them. Pretty soon we won't have much to banter over as far as driving goes, the cars will be driving themselves!
> I really do wish you luck with your lawsuit. It's not coming out of my pocket and as of now i don't plan to purchase any Uber stock when they go public, so i hope you get everything you ask for.


Driverless cars... they are on the way, very soon. Google has it pretty much perfected after almost 10 years of experiments and testing.

My suit will be dependent upon a few others to prevail. But we'll see.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> Of course we always want more. If they were raising the rates no driver is going to scream for them to stop raising rates.


Oh, by the way UD2, your comment above is a given. But do you think Uber is going to pay you more out of the goodness of their heart? That's why it takes someone standing up and shouting, "This is just plain wrong. Fix it." Even if I go down in flames, I've tried.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

I get your motivation. Me, I'm not expecting anymore money from Uber and I don't lobby for it either. I have a choice to play by their rules or not. They are in the driver seat. Im just a passenger and i can be replaced.
This is just part time work for me. Right now I'm CONTENT with what I make ($300-$500 a week) That dollar amount is different for all of us.
When it gets to the point when I no longer agree with their practice, I'll just walk away.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> I get your motivation. Me, I'm not expecting anymore money from Uber and I don't lobby for it either. I have a choice to play by their rules or not. They are in the driver seat. Im just a passenger and i can be replaced.
> This is just part time work for me. Right now I'm CONTENT with what I make ($300-$500 a week) That dollar amount is different for all of us.
> When it gets to the point when I no longer agree with their practice, I'll just walk away.


contentment is not a bad place to be.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

That is a lot of dosXX


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I would say apply common sense. Open the rider app, if you see cars driving around they are probably making money otherwise they wouldn't be out there.


Hey, I guess this place could start feeling like living in a house full of nagging wives.

Being a licensed Black operator for the past 20 years, and 9 in Cabs before that my agenda has been made clear before. UberX is a great way to see if you like driving, picking up folk and seeing if you can deal with the unreasonable public without resorting to physical violence.

Then if you find you are doing it fulltime - seriously think of getting a Private Hire permit and hooking with some other companies as a contractor whilst having access to UBER Black.

Like you say UberDude2 , doing this fulltime in your own car is a short cut to breaking your car. Wear out someone else's car whilst having access to multiple income sources, and working in an environment that encourages tipping.

X Work isn't a threat to Black, but it does send some Cabbies into our market when they move on due to falling turnover.

Our industry needs good casuals. I've only ever had Cabbies and Limo drivers as a source of new drivers. I now ride in X cars to see what quality is out there and possible recruits to Private Hire.

I shake my head at times when I see the level of over capitalisation some X drivers go to. I've ridden in 90k cars that are being billed out at $1.50 p/km. Whereas my vehicles cost me a 3rd of that at Auction and I bill out at roughly $4 p/Km - and its still a challenge at that rate!

So don't see me as a nark here, I just shudder to see folk that are often handing over their only asset to the growth of a very nasty company.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey, I guess this place could start feeling like living in a house full of nagging wives.
> 
> Being a licensed Black operator for the past 20 years, and 9 in Cabs before that my agenda has been made clear before. UberX is a great way to see if you like driving, picking up folk and seeing if you can deal with the unreasonable public without resorting to physical violence.
> 
> ...


You and I have been coexisting on this board for a little while now. I don't remember ever having a problem with something you've said.
I guess what triggered my rant was reading one too many of the posts that trash everything and everyone with no rhyme or reason. You know the ones I'm taking about. Makes wonder what the motivation is. But annoying none the less.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I would say apply common sense. Open the rider app, if you see cars driving around they are probably making money otherwise they wouldn't be out there.


Quite a foolish assumption, that the presence of drivers on the road translates to "people making money." Are they under the illusion of making money...yes, as they are likely taking in more money that day or week than they put into their gas tank. Are they making a profit? I think a majority of drivers out there don't really know if a profit is being realized or not, once all other costs are taken into account (and that's just operating costs...not less-likely events such as destruction to a vehicle, accidents, or major uncommon repairs).

As a current, part-time UberX driver, I operate with my head firmly planted in the sand. What I mean by that is I have calculated my mileage burden using fuel, cleanings, routine maintenance, and repairs through the first brake job and new set of tires. What I don't include in the burden is insurance (because I lack a commercial policy of my own) or depreciation (which is quite a thing to intentionally overlook). The traffic on this forum is only a small cross-section of the TNC community, but from what I've read over the past seven months is that many only include fuel costs and routine maintenance such as oil changes as expenses. With this level of omission, a "profit" can be fabricated even with $0.90/mile rates.

Am I making money? By my metrics and shady math, Yes. Am I making a profit?...I guess that'll depend on whether I make it to the end of this gig before an accident occurs or some obsessively large repair costs back-doors me. Only time will tell whether this venture will be profitable for me. Regardless, you'll find me on the roads of ABQ this weekend rolling the dice and hoping my goes-in's continue to exceed my goes-out's.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> That sounds nice but that wasn't your initial insult to me. Here is how you came to this thread....
> *"The building is on fire. I got burned but I got out.
> Now according to you, I should just let everyone else run in and get burned instead of warning them.
> That's pretty selfish."*
> ...


His "initial insult"? He insulted you by labeling your suggestion as "selfish". Your skin is that thin?

You've obviously been around this thread a while, and I'm sure you have great knowledge and observations to share regarding what you've learned along the way. The problem I have is the level of condescension in your responses to J. D. for "insulting" you puts you in the category with DesertDriver. All of that good advice and wisdom with regards to driving Uber goes to waste because of your arrogance in how you handle others that don't agree with your view.

Like you, I will not be hanging out here once I've hung up the keys and ceased driving for Uber. Unlike you, I won't be suggesting to others how they spend their time once moving on. And, I can't help but wonder, why all this effort on your part for free...do you not have something more profitable to be doing with your time? I only ask because you seem to suggest as much about those "stalking" the forum.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> Quite a foolish assumption, that the presence of drivers on the road translates to "people making money." Are they under the illusion of making money...yes, as they are likely taking in more money that day or week than they put into their gas tank. Are they making a profit? I think a majority of drivers out there don't really know if a profit is being realized or not, once all other costs are taken into account (and that's just operating costs...not less-likely events such as destruction to a vehicle, accidents, or major uncommon repairs).
> 
> As a current, part-time UberX driver, I operate with my head firmly planted in the sand. What I mean by that is I have calculated my mileage burden using fuel, cleanings, routine maintenance, and repairs through the first brake job and new set of tires. What I don't include in the burden is insurance (because I lack a commercial policy of my own) or depreciation (which is quite a thing to intentionally overlook). The traffic on this forum is only a small cross-section of the TNC community, but from what I've read over the past seven months is that many only include fuel costs and routine maintenance such as oil changes as expenses. With this level of omission, a "profit" can be fabricated even with $0.90/mile rates.
> 
> Am I making money? By my metrics and shady math, Yes. Am I making a profit?...I guess that'll depend on whether I make it to the end of this gig before an accident occurs or some obsessively large repair costs back-doors me. Only time will tell whether this venture will be profitable for me. Regardless, you'll find me on the roads of ABQ this weekend rolling the dice and hoping my goes-in's continue to exceed my goes-out's.


Read your own message again. You just contradicted yourself from the first paragraph to the second. No doubt you're looking for a debate. I'm not up to wasting more time on this thread, sorry.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Actually i didn't make much effort at all. And did you notice i didn't have much positive to say about Uber either? Just wondering what kind of idiot that has no affiliation with Uber, would spend so much time and effort trying to discourage others. Why waste your free time here? There are plenty of charities and organizations that could use unpaid volunteers. Check your local listings.
> I'm not trying to talk anybody into driving for Uber and i'm not talking up the company either. Maybe you have me confused with someone else


Some of us enjoy discussing various aspects of ground transportation, from insurance, to traffic, to laws and customer service. Maybe YOU should not spend so much time reading our comments. You could spend some free time with the groups I work with, like United Way or Wounded Warriors, or Special Forces Charitable Trust. Always rewarding.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

J. D. said:


> So you agree that driving under standards rates during non-peak hours is a losing proposition? This is my problem. It shouldn't be.


Therein lies the rub. If a company cannot keep vehicles available within minutes consistently, at base rates, before long, customers will find other options. That is the flaw in the "surge only "approach.


----------



## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Hey 20, with your experience, how do cab drivers truly make money?


The old salts I know make bank because they are reliable, consistent, knowledgable, and efficient. They practically established "shuttle routes" over time.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Well, 


ChrisInABQ said:


> Quite a foolish assumption, that the presence of drivers on the road translates to "people making money." Are they under the illusion of making money...yes, as they are likely taking in more money that day or week than they put into their gas tank. Are they making a profit? I think a majority of drivers out there don't really know if a profit is being realized or not, once all other costs are taken into account (and that's just operating costs...not less-likely events such as destruction to a vehicle, accidents, or major uncommon repairs).
> 
> As a current, part-time UberX driver, I operate with my head firmly planted in the sand. What I mean by that is I have calculated my mileage burden using fuel, cleanings, routine maintenance, and repairs through the first brake job and new set of tires. What I don't include in the burden is insurance (because I lack a commercial policy of my own) or depreciation (which is quite a thing to intentionally overlook). The traffic on this forum is only a small cross-section of the TNC community, but from what I've read over the past seven months is that many only include fuel costs and routine maintenance such as oil changes as expenses. With this level of omission, a "profit" can be fabricated even with $0.90/mile rates.
> 
> Am I making money? By my metrics and shady math, Yes. Am I making a profit?...I guess that'll depend on whether I make it to the end of this gig before an accident occurs or some obsessively large repair costs back-doors me. Only time will tell whether this venture will be profitable for me. Regardless, you'll find me on the roads of ABQ this weekend rolling the dice and hoping my goes-in's continue to exceed my goes-out's.


Well, at least your eyes are wide open!

An accident, at the wrong time, or place, can be financially devastating. That is true even if you are just driving a personal vehicle. But the risk and potential lawsuits of course increase for anyone operating commercially. It's just the way our legal system works. If you back into me as my neighbor, I get whatever payout your personal insurance offers, and probably leave it at that unless you were unusually reckless. If you are a very wealthy neighbor, or a business owner, (And you are a business owner under this model) suddenly my damaged goods or person become more valuable. Especially if it is revealed that you did not have adequate insurance. In my opinion, the part-time drivers who have considerable personal assets have a lot more to lose in this game, but many of them seem to think they have less at stake because they are only part-time drivers.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> You and I have been coexisting on this board for a little while now. I don't remember ever having a problem with something you've said.
> I guess what triggered my rant was reading one too many of the posts that trash everything and everyone with no rhyme or reason. You know the ones I'm taking about. Makes wonder what the motivation is. But annoying none the less.


Being part time in "Rideshare" is the go. If you have the luxury of being able to throw it in for the night if your city is crawling with other cars.

I just feel for the guys tthat are caught up in a bind and have to hang out and hit targets no matter what. Others dont have the margin to refuse pings from a silly distance away, but in the long run pay big time for the extra wear and tear.


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

Part time uba makes total sense. I also make 3-500 per week. My only sacrifice is a few lost hours of beer drinking. 

I drive both Plus and X (2 cars) and I don't drive for 90 cents- even if I am working the guarantee game. 

If for some reason, I needed to do this full time, I would develop my local regulars. Once I had a bunch, I would TCP up and cut uba out of the loop for my regular clients and only log on in between regulars. I would target my neighbors who use uba and on the company dime (I know several already). I would take real good care of them or even give em a little kick back to keep them happy. I would schedule as much as possible to improve efficiencies. 

Yes, uba is a shit company, lacking any sort of humanity. And when you combine this type of company with a desperate group of underemployed, the results look very similar to exploitation. But, I don't think it is. 

I think, if you are smart you can make uba your *****.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

headtheball said:


> I think, if you are smart you can make uba your *****.


You got that right! But not on their terms.

Not just exploitation, but predatory tactics. Don't think for a minute they are dumb and things just happen. They have a huge team of financial wizards and attorneys. They also count on naivete. I was suckered by inexperience and ignorance on my part. I got a little experience and am now removing the ignorance.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Actually i didn't make much effort at all. And did you notice i didn't have much positive to say about Uber either? Just wondering what kind of idiot that has no affiliation with Uber, would spend so much time and effort trying to discourage others. Why waste your free time here? There are plenty of charities and organizations that could use unpaid volunteers. Check your local listings.
> I'm not trying to talk anybody into driving for Uber and i'm not talking up the company either. Maybe you have me confused with someone else


Hey, people, stop wasting your free time sharing your knowledge and opinions, says UberDude2, who's wasting his free time sharing his knowledge and opinions.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I would say apply common sense. Open the rider app, if you see cars driving around they are probably making money otherwise they wouldn't be out there.


As has been pointed out, they THINK they are making money because they do not know how to calculate expenses -- or they only calculate direct expenses, such as fuel, but fail to realize that every mile they put on their car puts them closer to major/expensive maintenance items, such as tires, brakes, timing belt, and so on...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> As has been pointed out, they THINK they are making money because they do not know how to calculate expenses -- or they only calculate direct expenses, such as fuel, but fail to realize that every mile they put on their car puts them closer to major/expensive maintenance items, such as tires, brakes, timing belt, and so on...


That's enough out of you!!! Stop scaring people with real life experiences!! 
Ain't nobody got time for that!!!!

http://jaymetate.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/notime.jpg


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> The "converting depreciation for cash" is one of my favorites you bashers like to bring to the table. But i have a question that none of you have been able to answer. What if you bought the car outright for $1,000 then what? #2. what if i my car is worth $10,000 and i "convert that to cash". So now i have $10,000 in converted depreciation in your words and now what? I can A.) sell my car and anything i make is a plus or i can B.) keep driving the car and make another $10,000 and now go into negative depreciation? How do you spin those facts i'm eager to know?


1.) What are the maintenance costs for that $1,000 car?
2.) After you sell that car, are you buying another car?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunchback High said:


> This is a genuine question. Where do you get the $2/mile minimum from Uber recovery number? AAA has done a survey since 1950 and claim the cost (depreciation, insurance, maintenance) average 59.2 cents for sedans. What additional costs do people need to consider to get to the $2/mile?


You typically drive 1 dead mile to every 1 paid mile. If it costs 59.2 cents for every mile driven, then you'd need to get paid almost $1.20/mile just to cover the cost of the car. So at $2/mile, you would make 80 cents a mile for your time. If you're on the interstate going 60mph, that's about $48/hour max that you could make while driving. However, you'll likely have a lot of down time and the time it takes to get to pickups, etc. I could easily divide my time by 4, meaning I am making money about 1/4 of the time I'm logged in, so my hourly take-home would be about $12/hour, in the best-case scenario, and that's at $2/mile... How many UberX drivers make $2/mile? Then there's the extra tax burden to consider, since I am my own employer.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Have a nice day ladies.


That's meant as an insult, huh? You may add misogyny to your your list of skills and attributes.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Right now I'm CONTENT with what I make ($300-$500 a week) That dollar amount is different for all of us.


Before or after expenses? Based on how many miles driven?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Well,
> 
> Well, at least your eyes are wide open!
> 
> An accident, at the wrong time, or place, can be financially devastating. That is true even if you are just driving a personal vehicle. But the risk and potential lawsuits of course increase for anyone operating commercially. It's just the way our legal system works. If you back into me as my neighbor, I get whatever payout your personal insurance offers, and probably leave it at that unless you were unusually reckless. If you are a very wealthy neighbor, or a business owner, (And you are a business owner under this model) suddenly my damaged goods or person become more valuable. Especially if it is revealed that you did not have adequate insurance. In my opinion, the part-time drivers who have considerable personal assets have a lot more to lose in this game, but many of them seem to think they have less at stake because they are only part-time drivers.


As an owner of rental property, I spoke with an attorney about creating an LLC for the property. He advised against it, saying that the most likely event to occur that would result in a lawsuit or major financial liability is a car accident. Because of that, he recommended a $1 million personal liability umbrella policy, which would cover liability across all of our personal investments and activities.

Driving in a car is the most dangerous thing most of us do every day. I'm happy to pay for the proper insurance.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> You typically drive 1 dead mile to every 1 paid mile. If it costs 59.2 cents for every mile driven, then you'd need to get paid almost $1.20/mile just to cover the cost of the car. So at $2/mile, you would make 80 cents a mile for your time. If you're on the interstate going 60mph, that's about $48/hour max that you could make while driving. However, you'll likely have a lot of down time and the time it takes to get to pickups, etc. I could easily divide my time by 4, meaning I am making money about 1/4 of the time I'm logged in, so my hourly take-home would be about $12/hour, in the best-case scenario, and that's at $2/mile... How many UberX drivers make $2/mile? Then there's the extra tax burden to consider, since I am my own employer.


Hi JBD,

Wow! You are the first one on here that I've seen who really gets the numbers.

I've got to tell you though, I found 1 driver on here who has the ONLY legitimate reason to drive for Uber now. He has so many overlapping expenses between Uber and his real job that he can use the losses from his Uber business to offset taxes from his real job. That is the ONLY smart way to use Uber.

Unfortunately, 99.9999% of drivers sign up to make money which is impossible at the current rates.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> As has been pointed out, they THINK they are making money because they do not know how to calculate expenses -- or they only calculate direct expenses, such as fuel, but fail to realize that every mile they put on their car puts them closer to major/expensive maintenance items, such as tires, brakes, timing belt, and so on...


They also THINK they are making money because Uber told them so!


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's meant as an insult, huh? You may add misogyny to your your list of skills and attributes.


#whatWomenAsk !!!!!!
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7278578


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Hi JBD,
> 
> Wow! You are the first one on here that I've seen who really gets the numbers.
> 
> ...


I'm driving uber black at $2.20/mile + 55 cents/minute before Uber's cut. I'm doing it just for some income while I attempt to build my own client base.

I'm also doing it in a town car that only cost me $7,200. I had to get a part for the ac because it was stuck on full blast. It was supposed to be $1k, but a good friend is a mechanic and he spent his time locating the actual issue instead of replacing the whole unit, so that was only $336. I also had the door lock actuator replaced, an alignment done, and the rear shocks replaced, and a few other things done for about $600.

Insurance ~ $3,000/year with no comp/collision.
To get all my permits, occupational licenses, medallions, inspection, rapid gate id, airport class, etc, was about $1,000.

I'm all in for about $12,000.

The town car isn't as sexy as a 7-series or an s-class, but people immediately recognize it as a car for hire, and will flag me down, so even if uber deactivated me tomorrow, I could still work the bar scene easily.

Some of these guys are doing uberx in $30k cars they purchased just for that purpose.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm driving uber black at $2.20/mile + 55 cents/minute before Uber's cut. I'm doing it just for some income while I attempt to build my own client base.
> 
> I'm also doing it in a town car that only cost me $7,200. I had to get a part for the ac because it was stuck on full blast. It was supposed to be $1k, but a good friend is a mechanic and he spent his time locating the actual issue instead of replacing the whole unit, so that was only $336. I also had the door lock actuator replaced and the rear shocks replaced, and a few other things done for about $600.
> 
> ...


Okay now 2. Seems like you've got your $h*t together. A real plan. Using Uber as a step to get to where you want to be. Smart.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Okay now 2. Seems like you've got your $h*t together. A real plan. Using Uber as a step to get to where you want to be. Smart.


It's also good for learning the roads. Jax is the most spread out city. Since I usually stay on my side of town, I'm not very good with downtown or other areas. So Uber is good for that. If I look like a jackass (though obviously I try not to), it's under Uber's reputation, not my company's.


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm driving uber black at $2.20/mile + 55 cents/minute before Uber's cut. I'm doing it just for some income while I attempt to build my own client base.
> 
> I'm also doing it in a town car that only cost me $7,200. I had to get a part for the ac because it was stuck on full blast. It was supposed to be $1k, but a good friend is a mechanic and he spent his time locating the actual issue instead of replacing the whole unit, so that was only $336. I also had the door lock actuator replaced, an alignment done, and the rear shocks replaced, and a few other things done for about $600.
> 
> ...


I think all 500,000 mile cars are sexy...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm driving uber black at $2.20/mile + 55 cents/minute before Uber's cut. I'm doing it just for some income while I attempt to build my own client base.
> 
> I'm also doing it in a town car that only cost me $7,200. I had to get a part for the ac because it was stuck on full blast. It was supposed to be $1k, but a good friend is a mechanic and he spent his time locating the actual issue instead of replacing the whole unit, so that was only $336. I also had the door lock actuator replaced, an alignment done, and the rear shocks replaced, and a few other things done for about $600.
> 
> ...


Place that Lincoln and its rates next to a BMW with its rates, and unless you are in an exceptionally wealthy district, you will likely find at least 70% of your paxs opt for the TC. Of the 30% who want the premium sedan, half will be some affiliate who wants you to give a discount. Many of our peers believed that "if you buy it, they will hire it", and are half mill or more in hock with a fleet which is overkill for average business travelers. As many Uber drivers have also painfully learned, if your car payment demands that you take whatever you can get during the famine, the depreciation can soon turn you upside down.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

The last 3 statements 
Reasure uber will not take over the world


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

ChrisInABQ said:


> Quite a foolish assumption, that the presence of drivers on the road translates to "people making money." Are they under the illusion of making money...yes, as they are likely taking in more money that day or week than they put into their gas tank.
> Am I making money? By my metrics and shady math, Yes. Am I making a profit?...I guess that'll depend on whether I make it to the end of this gig before an accident occurs or some obsessively large repair costs back-doors me. Only time will tell whether this venture will be profitable for me. Regardless, you'll find me on the roads of ABQ this weekend rolling the dice and hoping my goes-in's continue to exceed my goes-out's.


Hi Chris,

I really liked your post here and think it sums up the majority of attitudes among drivers.

The real issue is that almost no driver calculates all of their actual costs to arrive at a true profit/loss for their Ubering. Lots of reason why they dismiss costs by I contend mostly because of Uber's deceptive practices.

I have a simple challenge. Assume for a moment that you own your own business (Independent Contractor) and were going to hire someone to drive in your place and you had to pay for all of their time (hourly rate at minimum wage), non-passenger and passenger time. This includes preparation time, waiting time, dead head time, book keeping time, cleaning time, etc. You had to purchase/rent/obtain all of the necessities for that person to meet his Uber requirements - automobile, taxes, iphone, cell service, car inspections, physicals, licenses, insurance, bottled water, fuel, etc.. Then add in depreciation/repairs/maintenance. Even if you didn't experience a repair or maintenance this week, you'd better be putting some cash aside to cover them. Add it all up and see if there is any left over after getting paid by Uber. That's your profit.

I promise you, the number will be a negative.

Too many people dismiss business costs just because they "already are doing it anyway" like their cell service or they haven't experienced an issue yet like worn out tires. That is not a legitimate reason to dismiss it.

This is where I contend that Uber is deceptively preying on the public. They want you to dismiss those costs so you donate it to Uber so they get rich at your expense. Uber knows all too well these expenses exist. They're not dumb. They have a huge team of financial wizards and attorneys who figure out how to take advantage of these numbers.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> Place that Lincoln and its rates next to a BMW with its rates, and unless you are in an exceptionally wealthy district, you will likely find at least 70% of your paxs opt for the TC. Of the 30% who want the premium sedan, half will be some affiliate who wants you to give a discount. Many of our peers believed that "if you buy it, they will hire it", and are half mill or more in hock with a fleet which is overkill for average business travelers. As many Uber drivers have also painfully learned, if your car payment demands that you take whatever you can get during the famine, the depreciation can soon turn you upside down.


I took her post a little differently. The way I saw it, even if she operated in the red with no profit, it was simply extra cash on her way to her real plan. Using Uber just like another investment into her final business objective.

Was I wrong?


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> The last 3 statements
> Reasure uber will not take over the world


Personally, I believe Uber is headed for a collapse. They'll go public with inflated numbers, the founders will get out stinking rich, then stock drops like a rock until they fold. You can't keep up tactics like theirs for long before the public catches on.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

J. D. said:


> I took his post a little differently. The way I saw it, even if he operated in the red with no profit, it was simply extra cash on his way to his real plan. Using Uber just like another investment into his final business objective.
> 
> Was I wrong?


I believe you took it the right way. But I'm a she.

Also, I believe I'll be in the black by the end of the year in uber money alone -- and that's for my full investment, and only rarely doing drunk hours.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I believe you took it the right way. But I'm a she.


Isn't anonymous forums the best! Pardon...


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Personally, I believe Uber is headed for a collapse. They'll go public with inflated numbers, the founders will get out stinking rich, then stock drops like a rock until they fold. You can't keep up tactics like theirs for long before the public catches on.


At cab rates uber was doing serious damage

Back then they had better drivers & vehicles

It would have taken 10 years to take over ( and they probably would have)

The rate cuts were a attempt to accelerate the take over

For the most part uber damaged its own with cuts

Why would they want to accelerate :
Pure greed

Looks like greed is UBER's weaknes


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

J. D. said:


> I took his post a little differently. The way I saw it, even if he operated in the red with no profit, it was simply extra cash on his way to his real plan. Using Uber just like another investment into his final business objective.
> 
> Was I wrong?


No, I don't think you were wrong. I was just reaffirming her smart choice of driving a Lincoln town car. She's a sharp lady, she's going to do well


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> I think all 500,000 mile cars are sexy...


True that. I'm currently at a young 138,568


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> No, I don't think you were wrong. I was just reaffirming her smart choice of driving a Lincoln town car. She's a sharp lady, she's going to do well


I see. I still have a lot of personal ignorance to eliminate concerning the higher end of the market.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

J. D. said:


> I see. I still have a lot of personal ignorance to eliminate concerning the higher end of the market.


It's funny. When I'm driving the car without pax, it's a hooptie or a grandparents' car. When people sit in the back with the redundant controls and the 6" factory stretch, they feel like celebs.

My friend's son told me the car was so sketch when he saw me drive it. Then I took him and his prom posse to their pre-prom dinner and they kept talking about how swank it was.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> It's funny. When I'm driving the car without pax, it's a hooptie or a grandparents' car. When people sit in the back with the redundant controls and the 6" factory stretch, they feel like celebs.


For a few minutes they are celebs.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> True that. I'm currently at a young 138,568


Lawdy!!! It still has its training wheels!!!!! I think we are at 210,000 on one, we keep thinking about retiring it, but honestly, it's still a great ride and our regulars love it. We have decided that we will sell it sometime this year, but that is because it will need tires, brakes, the standard stuff, and is starting to show some minor door dings, and we are seeing some paint bubbles on the plastic areas.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Lawdy!!! It still has its training wheels!!!!! I think we are at 210,000 on one, we keep thinking about retiring it, but honestly, it's still a great ride and our regulars love it. We have decided that we will sell it sometime this year, but that is because it will need tires, brakes, the standard stuff, and is starting to show some minor door dings, and we are seeing some paint bubbles on the plastic areas.


I've got some door dings and bumper rash. I thought about getting a paint job, but don't think there'd be much ROI. Most people I'm driving don't pay much attention to the outside, but the inside shines. I think the dealership we got it from had the carpets replaced because they are immaculate.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I've got some door dings and bumper rash. I thought about getting a paint job, but don't think there'd be much ROI. Most people I'm driving don't pay much attention to the outside, but the inside shines. I think the dealership we got it from had the carpets replaced because they are immaculate.


Turtle wax for black cars works wonders!!!


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

thehappytypist said:


> I don't agree with instances where someone new/curious about Uber are jumped on for considering it. However, given there will probably be an upfront investment and they can end up losing money, whatever information they can get is helpful, current driver or not.


Yeah, especially advising noobs against ever listening to OP with his genius invention of not displaying Uber logo on the windshield to hide the fact of Ubering in case of an accident.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

I'm a newbie part time driver. I find this conversation interesting, because whether or not you are making a profit depends on your unique situation, and your accounting methods. Sadly, most of you refuse to see it that way.

For example, I own a 2008 Honda Accord. This is my personal vehicle that I also use to part time Uber with. While driving for Uber, I don't have to consider a lot of things an "expense" on a monthly cash flow statement, unlike somebody who has bought a car to exclusively use with Uber.

For example, taxes and insurance. Those were things I was already paying on before Uber even was a twinkle in the eye of Uber's CEO (or the guy he allegedly stole it from). 

Likewise, "depreciation" isn't really an issue in my world. My car is old enough to where depreciation isn't really an issue. The rate at which my car depreciates in value now will have less to do with how much I use it, and more like how much it loses in value just due to its age. Besides, I have no plans of selling my Accord for at least another 10 years. So, depreciation just becomes something I can write off on my taxes to lower my liability next year. So in some sense, depreciation will actually make me money. Depreciation has nothing to do with my monthly cash flow, and just isn't a factor to me.

My only real expenses are gas, tires, and maintenance. According to AAA, my Accord should cost about .05 cents a mile for tires and maintenance factors. Gas is about $2.25 a gallon where I live right now, which equals about $0.08 cents a mile on my car. So, I'm coming in at $0.13 a mile to operate my personal vehicle for Uber purposes.

In Charlotte, where I operate, Uber gives me a rate of $1.10 per mile. After their 20% cut, that gives me a rate of $0.88 per mile. Minus the cost of operating the car ($0.13), and that gives me a profit rate of $0.75 cent per mile. Technically, if I drove 60 miles in one hour, I could make $45 in profit for one hour of driving.

And we haven't even factored in the $0.16 per minute fare I get for driving around (which would be $0.12 after Uber commission).

So the fact of the matter is, you can definitely make a healthy profit using Uber, assuming you are using an older car that is also your personal vehicle.

But if you bought a relatively new car to drive for Uber, in which financing, taxes, insurance, and depreciation, in addition to operating costs are a factor, then you would easily get up into the $0.57 per mile cost, in which your profit would be $0.18 cents a mile, or about only $10 in profit if you drove 60 miles in one hour.

At which point such means that if you have to go more than a couple miles to pix up a pax, or if your pax has you drive somewhere that takes you more than a few miles from home, then you will get royally screwed. 

No wonder some of you hate Uber so much. Some of you finance and operate separate cars in order to Uber. Such is an idiotic thing to do. You shouldn't hate Uber, you should hate yourselves. 

Lesson learned: Don't be stupid, and don't haunt this form trying to tell other people how stupid and oppressive Uber is. You can actually make a real profit from this gig. And such is why so many people do it on a regular basis. It's a great source of additional income for folks like me who just want to make some extra quick and easy cash. And the math is easy to figure out.


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> I'm a newbie part time driver. I find this conversation interesting, because whether or not you are making a profit depends on your unique situation, and your accounting methods. Sadly, most of you refuse to see it that way.
> 
> For example, I own a 2008 Honda Accord. This is my personal vehicle that I also use to part time Uber with. While driving for Uber, I don't have to consider a lot of things an "expense" on a monthly cash flow statement, unlike somebody who has bought a car to exclusively use with Uber.
> 
> ...


Do you own a home?
Does your insurance company know that you're transporting passengers for hire?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> In Charlotte, where I operate, Uber gives me a rate of $1.10 per mile. After their 20% cut, that gives me a rate of $0.88 per mile. Minus the cost of operating the car ($0.13), and that gives me a profit rate of $0.75 cent per mile. Technically, if I drove 60 miles in one hour, I could make $45 in profit for one hour of driving.


You're not accounting for dead miles. Those are miles you have to do, but don't get paid for. For instance, the miles you drive to a pickup and back to your waiting spot after drop off, miles driven home, miles driven to a bad location or cancelation, to get gas, car washes, food, etc. Typically, this is about a 1:1 ratio, but could be much higher, or slightly lower. Are you tracking your total miles driven while logged into the app?

So, the cost to operate your car per PAID mile is about 26 cents (since you need to account for that 1 unpaid mile to every 1 paid mile). That best-case-scenario profit of traveling on the interstate at 60 mph for an hour is $37.20 before taxes, assuming your maintenance costs are even accurate. When does that ever happen in CLT? Maybe if you drove someone to Rock Hill from Salisbury. Lol. Yeah, that's gonna happen. What is an average ride in Charlotte? Noda to university city? Uptown to Cornelius?

Have you had the timing belt changed? CV joints? Brake job? Shocks? Assuming it's a high-mileage vehicle, you may have some expensive maintenance coming up soon.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Question, I just started driving my Lexus with Uber in a city that only offers Uber X. I own the car (no payments). A lot of pax are telling me in bigger cities my car would be in a different category, black I believe. I drive for $1.05 per mile and .16 a minute. I'm glad I'm driving it instead of my Jeep because I get double the gas mileage, but does that seem right for a luxury car in the Uber world? I am 2.5 months out of shoulder surgery due to torn rotator cuff and can't afford to sit home not bringing in an income, but after learning this info I'm wondering if I made the right decision after thinking about the taxes I'll owe next year.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Question, I just started driving my Lexus with Uber in a city that only offers Uber X. I own the car (no payments). A lot of pax are telling me in bigger cities my car would be in a different category, black I believe. I drive for $1.05 per mile and .16 a minute. I'm glad I'm driving it instead of my Jeep because I get double the gas mileage, but does that seem right for a luxury car in the Uber world? I am 2.5 months out of shoulder surgery due to torn rotator cuff and can't afford to sit home not bringing in an income, but after learning this info I'm wondering if I made the right decision after thinking about the taxes I'll owe next year.


It would only be Black if you are commercially licensed. Some markets have UberSelect or UberLux. I don't know much about those, though. We only have X, XL and Black here in my area.

Is that $1.05 before uber's 20%? Figure out your maintenance/depreciation costs. What year is your Lexus and how many miles is on it?


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

$1.05 before the 20%. It's a 2006. Just started driving it this week with Uber. It now has 81,396 miles on it. New tires are inevitable where I live due to man sized pot holes and MAJOR construction, but aside from oil changes, clean air filters, fluid checks, fuses, new batteries for the key fab, etc, no major maintenance, but the depreciation on days/nights I drive over 300 miles for Uber... That's the reason I want the opinions of others.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> $1.05 before the 20%. It's a 2006. Just started driving it this week with Uber. It now has 81,396 miles on it. New tires are inevitable where I live due to man sized pot holes and MAJOR construction, but aside from oil changes, clean air filters, fluid checks, fuses, new batteries for the key fab, etc, no major maintenance, but the depreciation on days/nights I drive over 300 miles for Uber... That's the reason I want the opinions of others.


When you drive 300 miles, are you tracking how many miles are paid to how many are unpaid? At 1.05 - 20%, you're getting 84 cents per mile. At a 1:1 ratio of dead miles to paid miles, you make about 42 cents for every mile driven, but that's BEFORE expenses!


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Not to mention the people I end up driving around like the kids who said they were on "Molly" who were spitting their dip out my windows. I quickly came home and wiped down the car. Thankfully there was a hard downpour of rain!


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Not to mention the people I end up driving around like the kids who said they were on "Molly" who were spitting their dip out my windows. I quickly came home and wiped down the car. Thankfully there was a hard downpour of rain!


Surely there's something else you could do. Maybe an etsy store? eBay?


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

30o mile days/nights are typical only for Saturday nights. Luckily there are always surge rates and back to back pings, but no I don't keep that detailed of a log.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> 30o mile days/nights are typical only for Saturday nights. Luckily there are always surge rates and back to back pings, but no I don't keep that detailed of a log.


It's pretty easy to do. Reset the trip before you log in. Write it down at the end of the night. Look at your pay statement to see how many miles you got paid for. Then compare the numbers.

How much do you typically make on a saturday night?


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Never tried Etsy and through with EBay. In other words, it's not worth it.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

I've done everything, but compare. As I mentioned, this is the first week with my good car. I'll bd able to compare when the new statement comes out.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

I make about $200 on Saturday nights, but I'm online for 10+ hours.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> I make about $200 on Saturday nights, but I'm online for 10+ hours.


The IRS says it costs 58.5 cents per mile to operate a vehicle. That may be on the high end. Let's just ballpark your number at around 30 cents. Those 300 miles are costing you $90 to drive. So that's ~$110 profit for 10+ hours. (You could make that with a good garage sale in a few hours on Saturday morning.)

Then you are responsible for ~14% taxes because you are self-employed. You will pay taxes on the safe rider fee and the 20% commission uber takes. You get no benefits or unemployment protection...


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Ouch.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Guess I'll take the day off, have a few stiff drinks, a nice BBQ and think about the next game plan. Thanks for your input!


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Never tried Etsy and through with EBay. In other words, it's not worth it.


Actually eBay is pretty good 
You should look in to it

My wife & I have been selling since November 2010

Wife was laid off on 2008


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Guess I'll take the day off, have a few stiff drinks, a nice BBQ and think about the next game plan. Thanks for your input!


Good luck. Check the numbers for yourself, though. They may be a little better or worse.

I had a 2008 Honda Pilot with over 100,000 miles on it, and I figured my cost per mile on that to be about 26 cents.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

eBay was good for a while, but I got rid of everything I wanted to years ago. I'm going to run the numbers when the next statement comes out. Uber has been im my city for less than a year and I can average $100 a day, but I'm online with the app for 10+ hours a day with a ton of down time with the exception of Thursday and Saturday nights. Not worth ruining my Lexus over it when I could get more money in every other city! If I want peanuts I'll go to the grocery store, but I won't for just the shells.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

*wont work for just the shells.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> eBay was good for a while, but I got rid of everything I wanted to years ago. I'm going to run the numbers when the next statement comes out. Uber has been im my city for less than a year and I can average $100 a day, but I'm online with the app for 10+ hours a day with a ton of down time with the exception of Thursday and Saturday nights. Not worth ruining my Lexus over it when I could get more money in every other city! If I want peanuts I'll go to the grocery store, but I won't for just the shells.


Calculate the cost per mile for your car.

You can check the value of it now on kbb, then figure out how many miles you're putting on it ubering. If you're doing 500 miles/week, multiply it by 52. That's 26,000. So after a year, your car would have 107,000 miles. Put that information into kbb, but say that your car is a 2005. This will give you an estimate of how much your car is worth after a year ubering. Calculate the difference between how much it's worth now and how much it will be worth then. Divide that number by the number of miles driven, and that will give you the depreciation per mile. For example, if the difference between what it's worth now and what it's estimated to be worth then is $1,500, and you drive 26,000 miles/year, that's about 6 cents depreciation per mile.

To figure out maintenance costs, you can do it similarly. At 26,000 miles, that's about 8.5 oil changes (~$250 - $300). That's probably 1/2 set of tires (~$400?). There's a recommended 100,000 mile service/tune-up (Internet says ~$300). Is there anything else your car needs? Brakes? Belts? Shocks? Etc? (These are small items. I had to have the timing belt and shocks replaced on my Honda Pilot. Those were big ticket items, and cost me about $2,000.) If that was it, your maintenance costs would be about $1,000 / 26,000 = ~ $.04.

Gas mileage? What sort of mileage do you get? 20mpg at $2.50/gallon = $.13/mile in gas costs.

So that would give you a cost of about $.23/mile.

Then don't forget to multiply it by 2, if you're driving dead miles at a 1:1 ratio.

Just as an example.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

KingJimmy said:


> I'm a newbie part time driver. .


Wow! What an Uber praise! Perfect Uber prey. Not your fault because this is exactly the mindset Uber preys upon.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

> Have you had the timing belt changed? CV joints? Brake job? Shocks? Assuming it's a high-mileage vehicle, you may have some expensive maintenance coming up soon.


JBD,

Slowdown! You know all profitable UberX-ers drive magic cars that don't wear out and never need maintenance. What are you thinking?


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> $1.05 before the 20%. It's a 2006. Just started driving it this week with Uber. It now has 81,396 miles on it. New tires are inevitable where I live due to man sized pot holes and MAJOR construction, but aside from oil changes, clean air filters, fluid checks, fuses, new batteries for the key fab, etc, no major maintenance, but the depreciation on days/nights I drive over 300 miles for Uber... That's the reason I want the opinions of others.


Hi Elizabeth,

You could very well be the exception but most people still have to find out for themselves. You can get advice in polar directions on here.

Drive for a few weeks, keep great records, don't forget to count your time while preparing and cleaning, or book keeping time, dead head miles, waiting time, and always include an estimate for maintenance and repairs even if you didn't actually do any maintenance.

If your car gets damaged by an uncaring passenger, either take off the cost of repairs or the loss of value, your choice. I always opt'd for repairs.

Lastly, if you have an accident, are you prepared? Do you have insurance coverage for commercial use of your car? Too many unsuspecting people are now in deep do do because they weren't prepared. Do you own a home and are prepared to lose it for Ubering?

I think you'll find out for yourself pretty quickly. Reality is that you need a minimum of $2/mile to profit from this venture.

Let us know what you discover.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Even though it's not consistent with the origin of this thread, "Move on stalkers," since the title is a condescending "I've got your advice" here's one more.

State Farm, my insurance, will allow Ubering if less than 50%. Here's my last week of Ubering mileage: 511 miles for Uber. 12 miles for personal.

Even though I only drove on weekends, how do you think they would classify me? Don't get fooled and lose.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> As an owner of rental property, I spoke with an attorney about creating an LLC for the property. He advised against it, saying that the most likely event to occur that would result in a lawsuit or major financial liability is a car accident. Because of that, he recommended a $1 million personal liability umbrella policy, which would cover liability across all of our personal investments and activities.


Agreed. I also carry an umbrella policy, which costs about $300 a year with three cars and my homeowners all with the Auto Club. Of course, livery/TNC isn't covered.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Hi Elizabeth,
> 
> You could very well be the exception but most people still have to find out for themselves. You can get advice in polar directions on here.
> 
> ...


Elizabeth Secor : 
As a commercial livery owner, I offer this: demand a clear process for accident reporting. Settle for nothing less.

A reputable company will provide explicit instructions for reporting accidents. This includes what to do/say with passengers, what to provide to the other parties, the police, the media, etc. 
Who to call, and how to escalate, 24x7. This is standard in the industry.

Uber is not the only company leaving their service providers in the dark, however they are probably the largest, and the service is probably some of the riskiest.

If they balk at providing these answers up front, take that as the red flag which it is. Your personal assets may be at risk and you should know how to minimize that risk. "Distracted Driving" is being criminalized at a fast rate, and you are providing a service which certainly requires some distraction.

Contrary to what some on this forum claim, I don't provide this advice to encourage you to quit, I provide this advice to encourage you to be fully informed, since the Ts and Cs of this service state that YOU are an independent provider. This is often legal code for "under the bus".


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Even though it's not consistent with the origin of this thread, "Move on stalkers," since the title is a condescending "I've got your advice" here's one more.
> 
> State Farm, my insurance, will allow Ubering if less than 50%. Here's my last week of Ubering mileage: 511 miles for Uber. 12 miles for personal.
> 
> Even though I only drove on weekends, how do you think they would classify me? Don't get fooled and lose.


Good point, and a major concern for personal carriers. The increased demand for legal footwork and representation made the top list of concerns. In other words, it will cost them a lot to prove they are not responsible for the costs. It's a real jam, especially until they have ACCURATE data for analysis. The trend has been to hide the livery use and hope for the best. New regulations are making that harder to do.

Per the NAIC publication released in March:

_TNC-related claims affect the duty to defend, as well as the duty to indemnify. Under all standard personal auto policies, insurers have a duty to indemnify the insured for covered damages and also have a broader duty to defend. Because the duty to defend is broader than the duty to indemnify, an insurer may have to pay defense costs even if it can ultimately prove that the accident occurred during an excluded time period, such as Period 3. Some insurers argue that if a driver participated in TNC activity, the duty to defend should be placed on the TNC's insurance instead of the driver's PAP. _


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## paxham (Jan 18, 2015)

J. D. said:


> There should be NO NEED for a special strategy to "work" the system to make money. It's simple. Every driver should be able to make money.


In my experience you do need a strategy. On good days everybody can make money. Strategies pay off on the bad days. You build a strategy by learning from your own experience and that of others. There are a lot of basic tips that many drivers will share, where to work, when to work, how to play bonuses in your favor, park and wait or troll for pings. It is up to you to apply that knowledge. Successful drivers have been able to do that. I'm on the fence about Uber, but I know a number of drivers who are making it work for them.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

paxham said:


> In my experience you do need a strategy. On good days everybody can make money. Strategies pay off on the bad days. You build a strategy by learning from your own experience and that of others. There are a lot of basic tips that many drivers will share, where to work, when to work, how to play bonuses in your favor, park and wait or troll for pings. It is up to you to apply that knowledge. Successful drivers have been able to do that. I'm on the fence about Uber, but I know a number of drivers who are making it work for them.


This is getting really tiring. I'll be taking UberDudes advice very soon.

Sigh! On goods days? My last driving weekend was excellent. Stayed busy. Almost no wait times. Normal driving. Got some surges. Still lost money. I lost money because the rates are too low. Simple. Can't even afford the additional insurance on what Uber paid me. Rates are a joke.

It's not a game to figure out how to win. Rates should simply make driving worth it for everyone, any time. Otherwise, it is just a game, not a business, and I'm not playing. From what I understand, rates were good at one time.

You know a number of drivers who THINK they are making it work, it's a short-term illusion until Uber raises rates. Continue on with your dillusion.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> Good point, and a major concern for personal carriers. The increased demand for legal footwork and representation made the top list of concerns. In other words, it will cost them a lot to prove they are not responsible for the costs. It's a real jam, especially until they have ACCURATE data for analysis. The trend has been to hide the livery use and hope for the best. New regulations are making that harder to do.
> 
> Per the NAIC publication released in March:
> 
> _TNC-related claims affect the duty to defend, as well as the duty to indemnify. Under all standard personal auto policies, insurers have a duty to indemnify the insured for covered damages and also have a broader duty to defend. Because the duty to defend is broader than the duty to indemnify, an insurer may have to pay defense costs even if it can ultimately prove that the accident occurred during an excluded time period, such as Period 3. Some insurers argue that if a driver participated in TNC activity, the duty to defend should be placed on the TNC's insurance instead of the driver's PAP. _


Hey Tx, why you replying to my comment with a valid, rational statement? My comment was suppose to be a condescending, "don't get left hanging".

Your reply was suppose to be something like, "Well, duh!"


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Agreed. I also carry an umbrella policy, which costs about $300 a year with three cars and my homeowners all with the Auto Club. Of course, livery/TNC isn't covered.


Yes, same here -- $300. I have full commercial insurance, but I was just illustrating how likely it is to get into an accident and how much of a risk it is that a real estate attorney was far more concerned with protecting us on that end than in the unlikely event of a real estate issue.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

J. D. said:


> Hi JBD,
> 
> Wow! You are the first one on here that I've seen who really gets the numbers.
> 
> ...


That's the only way one can justify running a expensive Newish car on Uber.

I jumped into a 90k UberX car once. Asked the guy if he knew what he was doing to its value if he was driving fulltime. Told me to calm down and said he had a good last year in his IT consulting business. He needed a car but was advised to run it on UBER to get accelerated depreciation on the vehicle for one year. His accountant asked him to try to do one job a day but remain logged on whenever he was at home (miles from nowhere) or places he was unlikely to get a ping. His accountant assured him UBER drivers ran at a huge loss which he could offset against his consulting income.

Uber! A Tax accountant's best friend!


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Thanks Jax


J. D. said:


> JBD,
> 
> Slowdown! You know all profitable UberX-ers drive magic cars that don't wear out and never need maintenance. What are you thinking?


I know what i'm thinking....idiot. All maintenance will need to be performed whether you drive for Uber or not. So it comes a little sooner then expected. So What! It will be done anyway. JaxBeachDriver we started on this site around the same time. You used to have a pretty good attitude about things. I took a break for awhile because of all bashing and negativity that came from anonymous members that don't even drive or who supposedly used to drive. As it turns out you became one of those people but only worse. You claim to still be driving. You bash those who are genuinely making money and then you think you're outsmarting everyone else because you plan to start your own business some day. What is the Uber Black market like in Jacksonville? How much do you profit? Before you answer that, don't forget im the LA market where i'm pretty positive Black cars get more business here, but they are not all that busy. Arguably you are even dumber then the rest of the people here. For buying a car that uses a lot of gas and driving in a market that doesn't have a high demand. But you think you're smarter because you have a plan? What year is the your car? What will the maintenance be on that? What's your bottom line? By the time you start your business and become profitable I will have cashed in on my vehicle deprecation more the two times and I guarantee you my Honda Accord will still be worth more then that POS you purchased.



JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm driving uber black at $2.20/mile + 55 cents/minute before Uber's cut. I'm doing it just for some income while I attempt to build my own client base.
> 
> I'm also doing it in a town car that only cost me $7,200. I had to get a part for the ac because it was stuck on full blast. It was supposed to be $1k, but a good friend is a mechanic and he spent his time locating the actual issue instead of replacing the whole unit, so that was only $336. I also had the door lock actuator replaced, an alignment done, and the rear shocks replaced, and a few other things done for about $600.
> 
> ...


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

MikeB said:


> Do you own a home?
> Does your insurance company know that you're transporting passengers for hire?


The home is technically just in my wife's name, as she owned it before we got married. But I'm curious, what does my home have to do with me being a driver? Are you talking about it in regard to a law suit?

And I've not told USAA that I'm using my car for ride sharing. I'm not sure that it's any of their business, since I'm technically insured by Uber when I have a pax.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Thanks Jax
> 
> I know what i'm thinking....idiot. All maintenance will need to be performed whether you drive for Uber or not. So it comes a little sooner then expected. So What! It will be done anyway. JaxBeachDriver we started on this site around the same time. You used to have a pretty good attitude about things. I took a break for awhile because of all bashing and negativity that came from anonymous members that don't even drive or who supposedly used to drive. As it turns out you became one of those people but only worse. You claim to still be driving. You bash those who are genuinely making money and then you think you're outsmarting everyone else because you plan to start your own business some day. What is the Uber Black market like in Jacksonville? How much do you profit? Before you answer that, don't forget im the LA market where i'm pretty positive Black cars get more business here, but they are not all that busy. Arguably you are even dumber then the rest of the people here. For buying a car that uses a lot of gas and driving in a market that doesn't have a high demand. But you think you're smarter because you have a plan? What year is the your car? What will the maintenance be on that? What's your bottom line? By the time you start your business and become profitable I will have cashed in on my vehicle deprecation more the two times and I guarantee you my Honda Accord will still be worth more then that POS you purchased.


Why are you so hostile? I'm not bashing or making personal attacks. I'm just sharing what I've learned.

I did start with a good attitude, then I got shafted by uber's rate cuts and their general lack of concern for drivers' wellbeing. But I really enjoy the job.

So I quit and decided to invest in myself. And now I use uber as a tool, instead of vice versa. I've driven 700 miles this week. It's a lot, yes. I've made $500 on Uber and $150 in personal clients. I didn't work Thursday night. I only worked a few hrs early in the day on Friday bc it was my anniversary. I logged out at about 9:30 last night. I kayak on Sunday mornings, so I don't get any of the brunch rush. I really haven't worked very much this week.

I consistently get 19 mpg. Insurance is ~$250/month. I already listed the maintenance I've had done. I get my oil changed for $26 every 5k miles. I have a good friend who's a mechanic, so that helps.

I don't think I'm smarter. Some of you are much better at strategy than I am. Yes, uber black is slow, but not as slow as I anticipated.

Also, I already have my own business. You have to start one (or work for a business -- no TNC) to get medallioned here. It's not that big of a deal, just an occupational license and a fictitious name filing.

I'm already consistently getting about 3 calls a week from personal clients, and I only started in March. It's not much, but it means more to me than any star rating on uber. They're calling me because they like me and my service, and they pay more than it would cost them to uber black. And I haven't done ANY paid advertising yet, just networking and being available. I also had to turn down referral business from another driver because I took Friday night off.

All I need to make is an easy $300/week to recoup ALL the money I've spent on the business by the end of 2015.

I actually think my attitude is much better now that I've made the switch.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

By the way, I'm driving a 2008 Lincoln Town Car Executive L, and people consistently tell me that it's the nicest uber they've ever been in. And I only drive uber black.

I anticipate that the air ride system will go out one day. When it does, I'm going to convert to regular shocks. Maintenance/parts are pretty cheap on the TC compared to my Honda Pilot that was the same year and roughly same miles.

I'm not knocking anyone. I just want to pass on the same info I've learned on this forum. Some are making money, though not as much as uber would have you believe.

And, you're right, you will have to have the maintenance done anyway, but you are putting so much extra wear and tear with all the passengers getting in and out and the stop-and-go traffic. But if you're doing this to profit, you want to share the cost of that maintenance with the people who are using it as a service, right? That same logic that you'll have to fix those things anyway is sort of like when my cousin came to stay with me after he and his wife split up and he couldn't understand why he was expected to pitch in because I just had an empty room sitting there, so why couldn't he just use it indefinitely for free...


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> You're not accounting for dead miles. Those are miles you have to do, but don't get paid for. For instance, the miles you drive to a pickup and back to your waiting spot after drop off, miles driven home, miles driven to a bad location or cancelation, to get gas, car washes, food, etc. Typically, this is about a 1:1 ratio, but could be much higher, or slightly lower. Are you tracking your total miles driven while logged into the app?
> 
> So, the cost to operate your car per PAID mile is about 26 cents (since you need to account for that 1 unpaid mile to every 1 paid mile). That best-case-scenario profit of traveling on the interstate at 60 mph for an hour is $37.20 before taxes, assuming your maintenance costs are even accurate. When does that ever happen in CLT? Maybe if you drove someone to Rock Hill from Salisbury. Lol. Yeah, that's gonna happen. What is an average ride in Charlotte? Noda to university city? Uptown to Cornelius?
> 
> Have you had the timing belt changed? CV joints? Brake job? Shocks? Assuming it's a high-mileage vehicle, you may have some expensive maintenance coming up soon.


My 2008 Accord has 88,000 miles on it. A couple months ago I had to replace a belt. My tires probably have about 10-20k left in them. My breaks still have some decent padding on them. Last year I had to fix a small motor problem. I'll need to replace my battery sometime in the next year. Uber will probably speed up my need for these things in the near future.

But then again, for my my full time job in corporate America, I get to work from home. I anticipate that I'll probably never drive more than 100 or 150 miles a week for Uber. So my maintenance concerns for wear and tare are minimal. I used to drive 400 miles a week to go into the office and get home. So, the ware and tare I experience will still be less than when I used to go into the office Monday thru Friday.

The way I look at it, I'm accounting for expenses to operate my vehicle more for tax deductions than the true cost of operating my vehicle per mile, though I'm mindful of it. To me, counting the cost of "dead miles" for things like returning home when I'm done for the day is as illogical as counting the cost of coming home from my job at corporate America when I worked uptown.

Granted, the cost of picking up a pax is a genuine cost to consider, but if I have to spend $2 to go pick somebody up about 10 minutes away, in order to make $15-25 in profit from a fare, such is a reasonable thing to me. I mean honestly, such is a fantastic Return On investment, even after taxes.

Yesterday I traveled 70 miles for the entire day, including dead miles. I made $45 in fares in 2 hours. $45 - 20% (Uber commission) - $.13 per mile operating costs = $25.90 in pre-tax profit. Such is a 57% profit margin.

Obviously, I'm not getting rich off this, nor am I trying make a living off it. I'm just trying to make some extra side money. And as far as I'm concerned, the flexibility of this gig is highly attractive to me. And the money, though not great, is better than I'd make trying to wait tables or delivering pizza.

Also, last year I experienced a short lay off at my company. I work in the mortgage business, where job security is decent, but layoffs are known to happen from time to time. I look at Uber as a decent way to make some cash should I find myself displaced again in the future, and it would allow me to have the flexibility to continue to look for another job, should I ever get laid off again. In the meanwhile, it seems like a decent source of income to pay off my credit cards


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> And, you're right, you will have to have the maintenance done anyway, but you are putting so much extra wear and tear with all the passengers getting in and out and the stop-and-go traffic. But if you're doing this to profit, you want to share the cost of that maintenance with the people who are using it as a service, right? That same logic that you'll have to fix those things anyway is sort of like when my cousin came to stay with me after he and his wife split up and he couldn't understand why he was expected to pitch in because I just had an empty room sitting there, so why couldn't he just use it indefinitely for free...


A good illustration. But like I said, I'm aware of these things and am accounting for it. But the costs seem minimal, especially considering I won't do more than 5-10k in miles a year for this. And doing it primarily on a Saturday afternoon, there shouldn't be too much in the way of stop and go traffic.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy those last posts were in response to UberDude2. They're for everyone to comment on, of course, I just didn't want you to think I was posting them in an attempt to persuade you.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> KingJimmy those last posts were in response to UberDude2. They're for everyone to comment on, of course, I just didn't want you to think I was posting them in an attempt to persuade you.


Ahh ok. Sorry, I'm getting used to this forum and the way it works!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Why are you so hostile? I'm not bashing or making personal attacks. I'm just sharing what I've learned.
> 
> I did start with a good attitude, then I got shafted by uber's rate cuts and their general lack of concern for drivers' wellbeing. But I really enjoy the job.
> 
> ...


Keep at it! If one of your clients is from a multi-divisional company and can provide your details to the PA's /EA's then it can easily snowball.

Providing EA's peace of mind and an EASIER way of booking transport/having guests met at the airport etc is the key. You'll need to get a team of like-minded independent operators to back you up when the inevitable clashes occur. Even knock on the doors of the bigger players and offer your services as a IC for farm out work.

It will build for you.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> The home is technically just in my wife's name, as she owned it before we got married. But I'm curious, what does my home have to do with me being a driver? Are you talking about it in regard to a law suit?
> 
> And I've not told USAA that I'm using my car for ride sharing. I'm not sure that it's any of their business, since I'm technically insured by Uber when I have a pax.


But you are NOT under their primary plan as soon as you drop a pax, or while trolling for a fare. That is considered a high risk phase. That is because it has been proven to be a high-risk phase across the taxi industry. Look, you guys can all argue that you are just on personal business as soon as you drop a passenger, but insurance companies are not accepting that, and they have increasing support from legislators to protect them from having to cover these higher risk phases under an existing personal plan. If they successfully win the argument that you were providing livery service as you departed the airport terminal with no pax, you could be found to be driving uninsured. This was explained to me by a major underwriter executive a few months ago. He said the contingency policy in itself is problematic, because if your personal coverage is not valid, then it can be argued that you never met the contingency requirement in the first place. Most importantly, you can personally be tied up in the mess until someone else is deemed responsible :-(


----------



## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> Thanks Jax
> 
> I know what i'm thinking....idiot. All maintenance will need to be performed whether you drive for Uber or not. So it comes a little sooner then expected. So What! It will be done anyway. JaxBeachDriver we started on this site around the same time. You used to have a pretty good attitude about things. I took a break for awhile because of all bashing and negativity that came from anonymous members that don't even drive or who supposedly used to drive. As it turns out you became one of those people but only worse. You claim to still be driving. You bash those who are genuinely making money and then you think you're outsmarting everyone else because you plan to start your own business some day. What is the Uber Black market like in Jacksonville? How much do you profit? Before you answer that, don't forget im the LA market where i'm pretty positive Black cars get more business here, but they are not all that busy. Arguably you are even dumber then the rest of the people here. For buying a car that uses a lot of gas and driving in a market that doesn't have a high demand. But you think you're smarter because you have a plan? What year is the your car? What will the maintenance be on that? What's your bottom line? By the time you start your business and become profitable I will have cashed in on my vehicle deprecation more the two times and I guarantee you my Honda Accord will still be worth more then that POS you purchased.


That's it. Can we get a moderator in here. I've watched UberDude2 make personal attacks without any repercussions.


----------



## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> But you are NOT under their primary plan as soon as you drop a pax, or while trolling for a fare. That is considered a high risk phase. That is because it has been proven to be a high-risk phase across the taxi industry. Look, you guys can all argue that you are just on personal business as soon as you drop a passenger, but insurance companies are not accepting that, and they have increasing support from legislators to protect them from having to cover these higher risk phases under an existing personal plan. If they successfully win the argument that you were providing livery service as you departed the airport terminal with no pax, you could be found to be driving uninsured. This was explained to me by a major underwriter executive a few months ago. He said the contingency policy in itself is problematic, because if your personal coverage is not valid, then it can be argued that you never met the contingency requirement in the first place. Most importantly, you can personally be tied up in the mess until someone else is deemed responsible :-(


A valid point. I am aware there is a potential gap issue. I know that USAA is developing ride share insurance right now, but they haven't gone nationwide yet. I know when I signed up for Uber, they seemed to imply I was covered by them even if a passenger wasn't in the car.

I've personally thought about getting Umbrella insurance to cover any "grey" areas.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

J. D. said:


> That's it. Can we get a moderator in here. I've watched UberDude2 make personal attacks without any repercussions.


Apparently it works to tell the moderators you're scared of the poster in question. Lol


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Keep at it! If one of your clients is from a multi-divisional company and can provide your details to the PA's /EA's then it can easily snowball.
> 
> Providing EA's peace of mind and an EASIER way of booking transport/having guests met at the airport etc is the key. You'll need to get a team of like-minded independent operators to back you up when the inevitable clashes occur. Even knock on the doors of the bigger players and offer your services as a IC for farm out work.
> 
> It will build for you.


Thank you, Syd. I'm loving the suggestions.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

What about Uber's clam right here on their blog? They claim if the app is on, even if you don't have a pax and are in between rides, then they claim you have limited liability coverage?

They say: 

"The bottom line is that the drivers who use our app and the riders and communities we serve should have the confidence that any potential “insurance gap” is covered with a safety net as governments and insurance companies work out the details of ridesharing in their cities and states.

So, in order to fully address any ambiguity or uncertainty around insurance coverage for ridesharing services, Uber is becoming the first and only company to have a policy in place that expands the insurance of ridesharing drivers to cover any potential “insurance gap” for accidents that occur while drivers are not providing transportation service for hire but are logged onto the Uber network and available to accept a ride."


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> What about Uber's clam right here on their blog? They claim if the app is on, even if you don't have a pax and are in between rides, then they claim you have limited liability coverage?


They want you to use your insurance as primary, and when you get denied (and likely subsequently dropped), then they will cover you. I believe many people try to claim against their own insurance without mentioning uber, but I believe this is fraudulent. Basically, you're in a really shitty situation, and you're going to get screwed


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

J. D. said:


> That's it. Can we get a moderator in here. I've watched UberDude2 make personal attacks without any repercussions.


UPModerator


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> A valid point. I am aware there is a potential gap issue. I know that USAA is developing ride share insurance right now, but they haven't gone nationwide yet. I know when I signed up for Uber, they seemed to imply I was covered by them even if a passenger wasn't in the car.
> 
> I've personally thought about getting Umbrella insurance to cover any "grey" areas.


That's been the thrust of my 'arguments' all along here. The exec I've talked to (as well as those involved in TNC ordinance discussions here) have been pretty clear about just how far they will go to prevent covering commercial use, and they do consider departing drop offs, waiting at airports, hotels, venues, etc. to be "livery use". They know the potential for "cockroach swarming" (sorry even cabbies know that happens!!!) in congested areas. That's why most airports (if not all) as well as many major event venues require indemnity agreements.

Some of the gory details scared me out of using our commercial vehicle for anything PERSONAL, for the same reasons. He explained a lot of the legal questions they can ask, ("why were you there?" IS a valid question, and "noneYa" is apparently NOT a valid answer lol!!! And with media attention on cabs and TNC drivers, they don't plan to hold the bag on liability, nor the legal costs to avoid paying the damages.

We are not making millions in our business, and I know Uber drivers aren't either, so IMO there is no reason to not have all your i's dotted, or at least know there are undotted i's hanging around (so have some dots on standby!!!) We are the same way with our employ classifications and payroll. Aside from it just being the "right thing to do",even if we were just motivated by greed, it is not worth losing everything because you treat everyone like a contractor to save on taxes and unemployment. Be safe out there, King James!!


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> UPModerator


I'm just expressing my opinion like everyone else here. It's funny what one person considers an attack while they dismiss other comments that they agree with. Hmmm


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

I'm not sure, by the way, that it's fraud if you don't tell your insurance company that you recently dropped a pax off and were on your way back home, if that's indeed what you were doing. Honestly, I don't see how it's their business if I just dropped somebody off.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Why are you so hostile? I'm not bashing or making personal attacks. I'm just sharing what I've learned.
> 
> I did start with a good attitude, then I got shafted by uber's rate cuts and their general lack of concern for drivers' wellbeing. But I really enjoy the job.
> 
> ...


But you are still an " idiot" , because you are a girl.


----------



## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

J. D. said:


> That's it. Can we get a moderator in here. I've watched UberDude2 make personal attacks without any repercussions.


What's the difference between implying we are idiots for driving for Uber and me just saying what I mean?


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> But you are still an " idiot" , because you are a girl.


I love girls. Even the idiots.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I'm just expressing my opinion like everyone else here. It's funny what one person considers an attack while they dismiss other comments that they agree with. Hmmm


That's because the other comments were comments, not attacks. Not calling people idiots and demeaning them. Go back and read through the comments. I just did, trying to figure out what you could take as a personal attack or bad attitude from me. It appears you cannot tolerate people providing solid information that doesn't line up the way you want it to. I'm not even trying to talk anyone out of uberx. That's a decision s/he has to make alone. I'm merely sharing info the same way folks did for me on here when I started asking questions.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I love girls. Even the idiots.


I bet you like idiot girls the best, don't you? Ones you can manhandle and manipulate. Ones who know their roles. Ones who stand in the kitchen and wash dishes by hand for the man of the house. God, I just love alpha males.

I tried, but I couldn't resist.


----------



## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's because the other comments were comments, not attacks. Not calling people idiots and demeaning them. Go back and read through the comments. I just did, trying to figure out what you could take as a personal attack or bad attitude from me. It appears you cannot tolerate people providing solid information that doesn't line up the way you want it to. I'm not even trying to talk anyone out of uberx. That's a decision s/he has to make alone. I'm merely sharing info the same way folks did for me on here when I started asking questions.


You should go back and reread the messages demeaning is exactly what's going on here on most fronts. Implying is the same as saying the word. There is no difference in my book.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> You should go back and reread the messages demeaning is exactly what's going on here on most fronts. Implying is the same as saying the word. There is no difference in my book.


Look, you clearly don't know me. I say what I mean. All of my posts were informative. I did reread them. The only thing I called you out on that didn't involve hard facts/math was that sexist bit when you called everyone "ladies" in a way that suggested that being called a lady is an insult.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I bet you like idiot girls the best, don't you? Ones you can manhandle and manipulate. Ones who know their roles. Ones who stand in the kitchen and wash dishes by hand for the man of the house. God, I just love alpha males.
> 
> I tried, but I couldn't resist.


Actually I prefer a smart established woman with common sense because that's important to me. And I treat them like a respectable woman. Always, with no exception. Don't take what I said to you as a woman thing, it's not. It's a case by case situation. Man or woman, doesn't matter.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I bet you like idiot girls the best, don't you? Ones you can manhandle and manipulate. Ones who know their roles. Ones who stand in the kitchen and wash dishes by hand for the man of the house. God, I just love alpha males.
> 
> I tried, but I couldn't resist.


BTW, I've never "manhandled" a woman in my life. The woman I'm with is my equal. I do plenty of dishes and I always open her door. Your radar is way off.
Hard to respect any person (man or woman ) who doesn't have much common sense.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> That's been the thrust of my 'arguments' all along here. The exec I've talked to (as well as those involved in TNC ordinance discussions here) have been pretty clear about just how far they will go to prevent covering commercial use, and they do consider departing drop offs, waiting at airports, hotels, venues, etc. to be "livery use". They know the potential for "cockroach swarming" (sorry even cabbies know that happens!!!) in congested areas. That's why most airports (if not all) as well as many major event venues require indemnity agreements.
> 
> Some of the gory details scared me out of using our commercial vehicle for anything PERSONAL, for the same reasons. He explained a lot of the legal questions they can ask, ("why were you there?" IS a valid question, and "noneYa" is apparently NOT a valid answer lol!!! And with media attention on cabs and TNC drivers, they don't plan to hold the bag on liability, nor the legal costs to avoid paying the damages.
> 
> We are not making millions in our business, and I know Uber drivers aren't either, so IMO there is no reason to not have all your i's dotted, or at least know there are undotted i's hanging around (so have some dots on standby!!!) We are the same way with our employ classifications and payroll. Aside from it just being the "right thing to do",even if we were just motivated by greed, it is not worth losing everything because you treat everyone like a contractor to save on taxes and unemployment. Be safe out there, King James!!


Assuming the accident is my fault and my insurance coverage decides to deny my claim and just punts to Uber, I wonder what would be the odds that they drop me altogether? I mean, if I'm a regularly paying customer that cost them nothing in an accident that they are denying a claim for, what is their incentive to drop me, especially if I'm upfront about Uber?


----------



## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> I'm not sure, by the way, that it's fraud if you don't tell your insurance company that you recently dropped a pax off and were on your way back home, if that's indeed what you were doing. Honestly, I don't see how it's their business if I just dropped somebody off.


OOOh I know the answer to that. You were only at that location because you were providing livery service. They can use that, and will use it in a particularly expensive case. Remember, they have many more lawyers than most anyone who will drive for hire.

BTW here it the white paper the NAIC published a couple of months ago, it has a pretty good break down of top concerns. (Not that you are likely worried about insurance companies heheh...) but it does help shed some light on the reasons they see this gap phase as very critical to their business.

http://www.naic.org/documents/commi...g_exposure_adopted_tnc_white_paper_150331.pdf


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I bet you like idiot girls the best, don't you? Ones you can manhandle and manipulate. Ones who know their roles. Ones who stand in the kitchen and wash dishes by hand for the man of the house. God, I just love alpha males.
> 
> I tried, but I couldn't resist.


Go make me a pie!!!! (Who loves ya baby???)


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Go make me a pie!!!! (Who loves ya baby???)


Good stuff!


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Go make me a pie!!!! (Who loves ya baby???)


I ****in love you!


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> I'm not sure, by the way, that it's fraud if you don't tell your insurance company that you recently dropped a pax off and were on your way back home, if that's indeed what you were doing. Honestly, I don't see how it's their business if I just dropped somebody off.


I suggest that you read your policy very carefully, especially the parts explaining what constitutes fraud and what you wrote in your original application, and the terms you agreed to in your contract. It's pretty standard stuff, and spells out that driving for pay isn't covered. In an earlier post you mentioned that in your conversation with USAA they implied that you would be covered. I've got news for you- if it isn't in writing in your policy or an amendment thereto, you are not covered, as simple as that. In your contract you agreed to notify them of any changes in your status or vehicle use which could affect their decision to insure you, and omitting facts is considered fraud and grounds to deny coverage and cancel or non- renew the policy. Further, no sales agent or CSR can alter the policy- that is the responsibility of the underwriters.
Disclosure: it has been over 45 years since I sold auto insurance, but I read my policies.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Assuming the accident is my fault and my insurance coverage decides to deny my claim and just punts to Uber, I wonder what would be the odds that they drop me altogether? I mean, if I'm a regularly paying customer that cost them nothing in an accident that they are denying a claim for, what is their incentive to drop me, especially if I'm upfront about Uber?


I think some of that is going to be dictated by uptick in claims, if they occur. IMO, Uber has done nothing to foster a "safety first" reputation. Their push-back on registrations, drug testing, submitting background checks, etc....have not helped the cause. Their propensity to over-recruit, leaving hundreds of hungry drivers circling congested areas is not helpful either. As I mentioned on another thread, here in Austin they are driving past orange barrels on a service road, parking in hashed areas, sometimes in droves. It's really hard to promote the "safe alternative to cabs" angle when that type of behavior allowed. Same goes for their obvious lack of app logic to prevent drivers from logging 16 hour days or more. (I've heard Lyft does prevent this). Or activating drivers who have not met the local requirements.....and so on and so on.


----------



## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I'm just expressing my opinion like everyone else here. It's funny what one person considers an attack while they dismiss other comments that they agree with. Hmmm


I must have missed the comment where JBD insulted your intelligence, or anyone else's for having a different POV. Like me, she points out what she has learned, and provides "YeahButs" to people who may not be aware of some of the gotchas. You didn't just express an opinion, you went personal. There is no need for that.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Assuming the accident is my fault and my insurance coverage decides to deny my claim and just punts to Uber, I wonder what would be the odds that they drop me altogether? I mean, if I'm a regularly paying customer that cost them nothing in an accident that they are denying a claim for, what is their incentive to drop me, especially if I'm upfront about Uber?


I think maybe what is missing from the discussions about insurance coverages is the idea that a sharp victim's lawyer is going to sue anybody and everybody remotely connected to an accident. A sympathetic jury could stick you and your insurer with a huge bill. So if you are driving commercially, your personal auto insurer does not want the additional risk/exposure. You are driving more miles than you signed up for when you took out the policy. Not only that, but you are putting non-related, non-friend passengers in your car. This throws their risk assessment data out the window. 
That is why they may drop you if they find out about your TNC activity.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> I'm not sure, by the way, that it's fraud if you don't tell your insurance company that you recently dropped a pax off and were on your way back home, if that's indeed what you were doing. Honestly, I don't see how it's their business if I just dropped somebody off.


It is if they ask you if you were providing livery service in the area. From what I'm hearing that is becoming part of the standard interview question.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

King Jimmy,
Bear in mind that lying to your insurer, even by omission, may be considered committing fraud. You don't want that kind of trouble.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Older Chauffeur said:


> I think maybe what is missing from the discussions about insurance coverages is the idea that a sharp victim's lawyer is going to sue anybody and everybody remotely connected to an accident. A sympathetic jury could stick you and your insurer with a huge bill. So if you are driving commercially, your personal auto insurer does not want the additional risk/exposure. You are driving more miles than you signed up for when you took out the policy. Not only that, but you are putting non-related, non-friend passengers in your car. This throws their risk assessment data out the window.
> That is why they may drop you if they find out about your TNC activity.


A fairly clear synopsis, From the NAIC White Paper:

Personal auto carriers are beginning to voice their concerns over ride-hailing services. Many
believe that engaging in livery service is a material change to the insurance contract and,
therefore, the insurer may legally cancel the policy at any time. Even if the insurer does not
cancel the policy initially, it may choose not to renew the policy at the end of the contract term.
Insurers are concerned about the increased risks not considered under a typical PAP that should
be considered if the vehicle is used to transport passengers for hire.
The driver's involvement in TNC activities may lead to:

• Confusion regarding which insurer has a duty to defend.
• Delays in the claims handling process.
• Increased legal and administrative costs.

Insurers are also concerned that TNC drivers will not disclose the fact that they drive for a TNC.
The variances in language used for livery exclusions and the determination of which exposure
period the accident took place create additional costs for the insurer that are ultimately passed on
to all policyholders.

TNC-related claims affect the duty to defend, as well as the duty to indemnify. Under all
standard personal auto policies, insurers have a duty to indemnify the insured for covered
damages and also have a broader duty to defend. Because the duty to defend is broader than the
duty to indemnify, an insurer may have to pay defense costs even if it can ultimately prove that
the accident occurred during an excluded time period, such as Period 3. Some insurers argue that
if a driver participated in TNC activity, the duty to defend should be placed on the TNC's
insurance instead of the driver's PAP.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> I must have missed the comment where JBD insulted your intelligence, or anyone else's for having a different POV. Like me, she points out what she has learned, and provides "YeahButs" to people who may not be aware of some of the gotchas. You didn't just express an opinion, you went personal. There is no need for that.


You must of not read through all the post. If you go back and read you'll see that I tried to bow out of this thread after my initial debate with JD.
Then Jax comes along and calls me out on stuff that was already hashed out then took something I said to someone else and responded with this insult.



JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's meant as an insult, huh? You may add misogyny to your your list of skills and attributes.


You don't call someone misogynistic based on one comment that had nothing to do with misogyny. Look through my posts, if you see a theme you might be on to something. But you won't


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

J. D. said:


> JBD,
> 
> Slowdown! You know all profitable UberX-ers drive magic cars that don't wear out and never need maintenance. What are you thinking?


I liked the part about keeping the car for another 10 years. I guess NOT ubering! (Would love to see and smell what kind of shape a car would be in after 10 years of this.)


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> By the way, I'm driving a 2008 Lincoln Town Car Executive L, and people consistently tell me that it's the nicest uber they've ever been in. And I only drive uber black.
> 
> I anticipate that the air ride system will go out one day. When it does, I'm going to convert to regular shocks. Maintenance/parts are pretty cheap on the TC compared to my Honda Pilot that was the same year and roughly same miles.
> 
> ...


I think pax feel the same way about our cars....must be related to your cousin.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Well after a few years of delivering for dominos mine smelled like a combo of pizza/buffalo wings, and cinnamon sticks.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I liked the part about keeping the car for another 10 years. I guess NOT ubering! (Would love to see and smell what kind of shape a car would be in after 10 years of this.)


I'm also sure that someone on this forum took that HUMOROUS comment as a personal insult to their magic car.


----------



## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> I think some of that is going to be dictated by uptick in claims, if they occur. IMO, Uber has done nothing to foster a "safety first" reputation. Their push-back on registrations, drug testing, submitting background checks, etc....have not helped the cause. Their propensity to over-recruit, leaving hundreds of hungry drivers circling congested areas is not helpful either. As I mentioned on another thread, here in Austin they are driving past orange barrels on a service road, parking in hashed areas, sometimes in droves. It's really hard to promote the "safe alternative to cabs" angle when that type of behavior allowed. Same goes for their obvious lack of app logic to prevent drivers from logging 16 hour days or more. (I've heard Lyft does prevent this). Or activating drivers who have not met the local requirements.....and so on and so on.


With uber it's the shoot first ask questions later mentality.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Lidman said:


> Well after a few years of delivering for dominos mine smelled like a combo of pizza/buffalo wings, and cinnamon sticks.


MMMMmmm. Bet the dogs didn't just bark at yours.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

no, if it smelled like steak or hot dogs well that's, now I haven't all of the last few pages on here, but there's a lengthy discussion about insurance. when I get back from my nephews birthday party I'll take a look, 

let me know if there's any cat fights, those are always entertaining.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's because the other comments were comments, not attacks. Not calling people idiots and demeaning them. Go back and read through the comments. I just did, trying to figure out what you could take as a personal attack or bad attitude from me. It appears you cannot tolerate people providing solid information that doesn't line up the way you want it to. I'm not even trying to talk anyone out of uberx. That's a decision s/he has to make alone. I'm merely sharing info the same way folks did for me on here when I started asking questions.





J. D. said:


> I'm also sure that someone on this forum took that HUMOROUS comment as a personal insult to their magic car.


Mine end up smelling like

Hint of Old leather , hint of wood , hint of cigar , hint of old spice , hint of old library

Many have mentioned it's intriguing

P.S. I spend a lot of time cleaning the interior thru out the years
I don't know how the aroma built up


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Well after a few years of delivering for dominos mine smelled like a combo of pizza/buffalo wings, and cinnamon sticks.


I found using a waterproof dog cover for the back seat and only putting the bags there (rare exception if I had a very big order) nipped that in the bud. The truly stinky part is the bags and it seeps into the material. Protect that and the rest is mostly fresh food smell which dissipates quickly. The first trip I take after delivering pizza pax sometimes can smell pizza but (they tell me) only in a good way (fresh, makes them hungry). The rest of the night my pax say they don't smell pizza and my car smells great.

The vehicle I had before I figured this out had that definite old funky food smell. Didn't matter much anyway as it also was black from newspaper ink and no one rode in it but me and the dogs (GMC Safari van).


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> The cheap car is the answer
> It virtually eliminates depreciation


Indeed. The cheapest, shit-assed rattletrap you can find for $1200.00 is an absolutely ideal UBER car.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Hmmm, I may have to reread my policy. Sounds like all of this is just waiting for some serious lawsuits to happen to figure out who covers what and when.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Calculate the cost per mile for your car.
> 
> You can check the value of it now on kbb, then figure out how many miles you're putting on it ubering. If you're doing 500 miles/week, multiply it by 52. That's 26,000. So after a year, your car would have 107,000 miles. Put that information into kbb, but say that your car is a 2005. This will give you an estimate of how much your car is worth after a year ubering. Calculate the difference between how much it's worth now and how much it will be worth then. Divide that number by the number of miles driven, and that will give you the depreciation per mile. For example, if the difference between what it's worth now and what it's estimated to be worth then is $1,500, and you drive 26,000 miles/year, that's about 6 cents depreciation per mile.
> 
> ...


Here are the numbers and it's not pretty considering I'm Ubering with a lux car. 1106.8 total miles. I average 25 miles per gallon. Take home is $600.12 plus $47 in tips for a grand total of $647.12 for the week. I spent $110 on gas. Not including insurance since I need it anyway. Gas and mileage are tax deductions, correct? As a side note I don't troll for fares, I drive home and end up cleaning or watching TV and I am not in BFE either.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think pax feel the same way about our cars....must be related to your cousin.


My cousin has grown since then, thankfully. Many pax have regressed


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Here are the numbers and it's not pretty considering I'm Ubering with a lux car. 1106.8 total miles. I average 25 miles per gallon. Take home is $600.12 plus $47 in tips for a grand total of $647.12 for the week. I spent $110 on gas. Not including insurance since I need it anyway. Gas and mileage are tax deductions, correct? As a side note I don't troll for fares, I drive home and end up cleaning or watching TV and I am not in BFE either.


Remember, I'm getting $1.05 per mile and .16 per minute.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Mine end up smelling like
> 
> Hint of Old leather , hint of wood , hint of cigar , hint of old spice , hint of old library
> 
> ...


When I first got it, it smelled like bird seed. I went ahead and had the carpets shampooed and found some secret, magic potion that smells like fresh leather interior (sworn to secrecy). It's all black inside, so sometimes I vacuum it 4x/day. I hit it with lavender-scented leather conditioner between pax.

I also keep a lavender candle in the car that I light between pax, while I'm waiting, and blow it out as soon as the aroma spreads but before much wax melts. I put it in the cup holder until the wax dries and then stick it in the ash tray before I pick up a pax.

Smell is one of the most important aspects of a car, I believe.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Hmmm, I may have to reread my policy. Sounds like all of this is just waiting for some serious lawsuits to happen to figure out who covers what and when.


when it comes to insurance I always suggest to drivers to make sure it's ok with their primary insurance carrier to drive commercial. be that uber/cabs bus'es , scooters yadyada. maybe someday the TNC and major insurance companies will finally come up with something that everyone can afford. The best one so far is metro mile on the west coast... its just one mass confusion, and the more try to explain, I confuse myself even more. but like I said, make sure its cool with your pri insur to driver for uber... tx rides probably explains it the best.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> I think maybe what is missing from the discussions about insurance coverages is the idea that a sharp victim's lawyer is going to sue anybody and everybody remotely connected to an accident. A sympathetic jury could stick you and your insurer with a huge bill. So if you are driving commercially, your personal auto insurer does not want the additional risk/exposure. You are driving more miles than you signed up for when you took out the policy. Not only that, but you are putting non-related, non-friend passengers in your car. This throws their risk assessment data out the window.
> That is why they may drop you if they find out about your TNC activity.


An outstanding point. At the end of the day, lawyer Joe Blow isn't going to sue me if I'm at fault. I have such a minimal net worth that it's not going to be worth their time, let alone their clients. I don't have deep enough pockets.

USAA and Uber, however, do have deeper pockets. The lawyers will hound them, not me. Especially if they get the chance to make case law history.

Either way, I wouldn't be shocked if this gets settled by the insurance companies just developing some sort of Uber Rider To attach to the end of a policy. After all, if they can make a couple more bucks off you, they will gladly do so. But maybe they don't need to. Umbrella insurance may just be the way to go.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Remember, I'm getting $1.05 per mile and .16 per minute.


holy Toledo!!! well I hope you catch some cool surges. But if you can make it on 1.05. that's great.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Lidman said:


> when it comes to insurance I always suggest to drivers to make sure it's ok with their primary insurance carrier to drive commercial. be that uber/cabs bus'es , scooters yadyada. maybe someday the TNC and major insurance companies will finally come up with something that everyone can afford. The best one so far is metro mile on the west coast... its just one mass confusion, and the more try to explain, I confuse myself even more. but like I said, make sure its cool with your pri insur to driver for uber... tx rides probably explains it the best.


Should I just call USAA and ask?


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Should I just call USAA and ask?


yeah why not..hopefully you'll get clear answer like yes or no, and not one of those round about responses. like Bill Clintons answer to the question about whether or not he smoked pot, "I didn't inhale. ..... but again give it a shot.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Lidman said:


> yeah why not..hopefully you'll get clear answer like yes or no, and not one of those round about responses. like Bill Clintons answer to the question about whether or not he smoked pot, "I didn't inhale. ..... but again give it a shot.


I will call them tomorrow. My guess is that they wouldn't drop my coverage altogether if I'm open with them about it, especially by the fact they are beta testing ride share insurance in two states.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Lidman said:


> holy Toledo!!! well I hope you catch some cool surges. But if you can make it on 1.05. that's great.


So, you think the numbers are good? I'm often told I'm the only Uber driver out which is part of the reason my mileage is high. I do get some cool surges, up to 2.9 last night and early this morning. The general consensus is there are about 10 Uber drivers in my city and most are part time. I'm online with the app the majority of the day since I'm on medical leave from my other job and was unable to work for 6 months. Tomorrow is the first day of my 4th week with Uber.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> So, you think the numbers are good? I'm often told I'm the only Uber driver out which is part of the reason my mileage is high. I do get some cool surges, up to 2.9 last night and early this morning. The general consensus is there are about 10 Uber drivers in my city and most are part time. I'm online with the app the majority of the day since I'm on medical leave from my other job and was unable to work for 6 months. Tomorrow is the first day of my 4th week with Uber.


Here in jaX, uber x is 75 cents/mile. $1.05 is better than that. At least you're getting tips! Just be cautious about the insurance issues. If it's worth it to you, do what you gotta do.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> So, you think the numbers are good? I'm often told I'm the only Uber driver out which is part of the reason my mileage is high. I do get some cool surges, up to 2.9 last night and early this morning. The general consensus is there are about 10 Uber drivers in my city and most are part time. I'm online with the app the majority of the day since I'm on medical leave from my other job and was unable to work for 6 months. Tomorrow is the first day of my 4th week with Uber.


Part time is definitely a good idea. On this forum, you'll find a great variation in forum members likes and dislikes . From what I've heard and read on here and from friends of mine who driven uber, the rates in their perspeciive cities where much higher then now. Like anything, some like uber, some like driving a cab. I wouldn't mind driving uber if I didn't have to supply my own vehicle, but I can see it's advantages though. Not having to adhere to set hours. Come and go as you please. So anyways, I've rambled on long enough. Hopefully it works for you..


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Here in jaX, uber x is 75 cents/mile. $1.05 is better than that. At least you're getting tips! Just be cautious about the insurance issues. If it's worth it to you, do what you gotta do.


Yikes, you're right 1.05 suddenly looks better. I think Orlando is the same too. What's interesting is im constantly post on my facebook about Uber being $2 mile in Cedar rapids. But I am just afraid that eventually it'll be over saturated with drivers and rates will plummet.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Please inform me about insurance issues. I have really good insurance, but how can I end up losing my home? I'm really pushing myself with Uber for monthly living and hefty property taxes due in July.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Lidman said:


> Part time is definitely a good idea. On this forum, you'll find a great variation in forum members likes and dislikes . From what I've heard and read on here and from friends of mine who driven uber, the rates in their perspeciive cities where much higher then now. Like anything, some like uber, some like driving a cab. I wouldn't mind driving uber if I didn't have to supply my own vehicle, but I can see it's advantages though. Not having to adhere to set hours. Come and go as you please. So anyways, I've rambled on long enough. Hopefully it works for you..


Thank you and I hope it works too, at least while I NEED it to. Worried about taxes next year and not fond of the rating system. When a drunk PAX suddenly sees their fare was $40-$60 on what is usually $20 I'm afraid that they will rate me lower, even though I've been told they ok the surge rate. Seems to be a lot of highs and lows associated with Ubering. Makes me feel a bit bipolar.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Please inform me about insurance issues. I have really good insurance, but how can I end up losing my home? I'm really pushing myself with Uber for monthly living and hefty property taxes due in July.


well I try to keep it simple, as long your provide is ok with you driving uber, you should be fine, but a lot drivers don't tell their carriers, and hope for the best, which is not good.

THere's quite a few threads about insurance you might want to read thru. It gets confusing, but I think it'll help.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Elizabeth Secor said:


> Please inform me about insurance issues. I have really good insurance, but how can I end up losing my home? I'm really pushing myself with Uber for monthly living and hefty property taxes due in July.


First, read your policy in detail, especially the sections on what is not covered. It probably says that driving for pay is excluded. There may be an exception for "shared expense" carpooling, but that is not the same as driving for Uber/Lyft.
If you read the part about informing the insurer of changes in your vehicle use, it will probably mention your original application and what you told them then. Omitting pertinent facts may be considered fraud, and grounds to cancel or non-renew your policy.
Regarding an earlier post where you asked about deducting for gas and mileage, most find it best to use the IRS mileage deduction which includes gas, wear and tear, depreciation. They require a record of business use to back up the deduction. My CPA has me keep a detailed log, using the actual odometer readings, not just a daily trip meter total as some here have suggested. Maybe that would suffice, but is just takes a moment to jot it down on my calendar for the date and business purpose.


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## Elizabeth Secor (Apr 22, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> First, read your policy in detail, especially the sections on what is not covered. It probably says that driving for pay is excluded. There may be an exception for "shared expense" carpooling, but that is not the same as driving for Uber/Lyft.
> If you read the part about informing the insurer of changes in your vehicle use, it will probably mention your original application and what you told them then. Omitting pertinent facts may be considered fraud, and grounds to cancel or non-renew your policy.
> Regarding an earlier post where you asked about deducting for gas and mileage, most find it best to use the IRS mileage deduction which includes gas, wear and tear, depreciation. They require a record of business use to back up the deduction. My CPA has me keep a detailed log, using the actual odometer readings, not just a daily trip meter total as some here have suggested. Maybe that would suffice, but is just takes a moment to jot it down on my calendar for the date and business purpose.


Thank you! Fortunately I'm familiar with writing of mileage with my other job, but I was able to give a print out of the Google directions to my CPA. I have been writing down my odometer mileage on a daily basis and reset my trip meter when I get my first ping. I'll have to read my insurance policy. Thanks again!


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> The home is technically just in my wife's name, as she owned it before we got married. But I'm curious, what does my home have to do with me being a driver? Are you talking about it in regard to a law suit?
> 
> And I've not told USAA that I'm using my car for ride sharing. I'm not sure that it's any of their business, since I'm technically insured by Uber when I have a pax.


Yes, lawsuit. Pax suing you. Getting injured in your car and suing you for their injuries, medical care, X-rays, MRI, doctors visits, medications, massages, chiropractic services, long term care. You name it. Uber's insurer James River ins. co. is a joke, it doesn't pay shit, excuse my French. Go to insurance section of this forum and read actual accounts and individual stories of multiple drivers ****ed by JR. Pardon my French again. It goes as ridiculous as them denying the coverage to the Driver saying just because you didn't have an uninsured motorist clause in your personal policy we can't cover your accident damage because we match driver's policy.
There are numerous anecdotes here what kind of joke it is. I understand that as noob you haven't been aware of much what really going on when the shit hits the fan.
If you have no assets and your wife isn't afraid that with your high risk side occupation she might lose her home, or simply unaware of it yet, you've now been warned.
As far as you personal insurance carrier is concerned you're committing insurance fraud by hiding from them the fact of your use of the vehicle commercially in connection with transporting passengers for hire. If they find out they will cancel your personal policy and report it to nationwide insurance information pool called CLUE that you have violated the terms of your policy and subsequently it was canceled. Try find and afford to buy the insurance policy then.
If you doubt it just pick up the phone and call USAA tomorrow and ask to speak with an agent about your policy. Then inform them of your activity and see what happens.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

MikeB said:


> Yes, lawsuit. Pax suing you. Getting injured in your car and suing you for their injuries, medical care, X-rays, MRI, doctors visits, medications, massages, chiropractic services, long term care. You name it. Uber's insurer James River ins. co. is a joke, it doesn't pay shit, excuse my French. Go to insurance section of this forum and read actual accounts and individual stories of multiple drivers ****ed by JR. Pardon my French again. It goes as ridiculous as them denying the coverage to the Driver saying just because you didn't have an uninsured motorist clause in your personal policy we can't cover your accident damage because we match driver's policy.
> There are numerous anecdotes here what kind of joke it is. I understand that as noob you haven't been aware of much what really going on when the shit hits the fan.
> If you have no assets and your wife isn't afraid that with your high risk side occupation she might lose her home, or simply unaware of it yet, you've now been warned.
> As far as you personal insurance carrier is concerned you're committing insurance fraud by hiding from them the fact of your use of the vehicle commercially in connection with transporting passengers for hire. If they find out they will cancel your personal policy and report it to nationwide insurance information pool called CLUE that you have violated the terms of your policy and subsequently it was canceled. Try find and afford to buy the insurance policy then.
> If you doubt it just pick up the phone and call USAA tomorrow and ask to speak with an agent about your policy. Then inform them of your activity and see what happens.


Just so you know, I have a slight background in tort law. I also work in the lovely world of default mortgages at a large national bank, and I deal with title and lien issues on a daily basis across most states in America. What you are saying about losing your home should you lose a civil lawsuit is absurd, and is not grounded in reality.

First, if you should lose a civil law suit and a judgment is actually issued against you, the judgment is considered an unsecured debt. It is an unsecured debt and as such is ultimately subject to the same collection laws any and every other debt you've ever owed. Such does not give them a right to just start seizing your assets, such as a car or a home, and selling them in order to pay the judgment.

Secondly if you can't afford to pay the law suit up front, a payment plan can be worked out. Secondly, if not enough, they can levy your bank accounts and garnish your wages. But they can only take so much out of your bank account, and they can only garnish up to a certain percentage of your paycheck (rules vary state to state.)

In addition to this, they can put a lien on your home. But putting a lien on your home is not the same as forcing you to sell your home. The only people that can foreclose on your home are the individual parties who have secured that right, and that is limited to the bank, the state/county for taxes, and your HOA. Nobody else has the power to foreclose on your house, except these three entities. There are homestead laws about this sorta stuff.

When you lose a judgment in court, IF and when they put a lien against your house, it just means that should you decide to sell your home one day, should your home sell for more than what it is worth, then the lien against your home allows them to seize the profits from selling your home. But the bank, as first lien holder, is entitled to their money first. At best, the person who sued you can hope to collect from the profits of such a sell. And with so many people being upside down on their homes these days, or having little to no equity in their home... good luck collecting any money out of that.

But guess what? If you never sell your home, then they will never collect. And also guess what? The lien is only enforceable for ten years (there is a limit on how long a debtor can pursue you for).

And if all else fails and you can't afford to pay the judgment, you can always do what most people do, and file bankruptcy.

The fact is that most people who win civil judgments seldom ever collect anywhere near the amount that they win. As it is, most people settle out of court, or resort to mediation to decide these sort of matters. And why? Because their lawyers know that going to court and collecting a judgment is a waste of just about everybodies time. It seldom actually happens in the real world. Literally, 99% of civil cases never see a court room for this reason, as most attorneys know most regular folk, like you and me, seldom have the income or assets to go after, and they know most people file bankruptcy before paying anything.

So, excuse me if I find what you say from now on regarding such issues as outlined above as absurd and untrustworthy. Why you would employ such fear mongering is beyond me.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

By the way Mike, I called up USAA. They said me driving for Uber would not impact my coverage at all, and they said they would not drop my coverage for driving with them. I don't even need to claim more mileage on my vehicle annually. They said I just would not be covered in an accident should I be plugged in working for Uber. At that point, it would be up to Uber to cover me under their insurance.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> Go make me a pie!!!! (Who loves ya baby???)


Wow. I didn't know you had quite this much spunk TXrides.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> King Jimmy,
> Bear in mind that lying to your insurer, even by omission, may be considered committing fraud. You don't want that kind of trouble.


Exactly! One of the penalties that I couldn't deal with is losing my primary insurance. I just wish uber and the insurance companies could come to sort of an agreement to where there's full coverage, but the monthly cost is affordable to drivers. Cab companies have the advantage in this situation because they're allowed to uses cheaper cars that are much more durable (like chevy caprice, sudans ) and such (shitty gas mileage which drivers usually have to pay anyways). It's easier for them to afford the commercial insurance because they can get more out of their cars on a daily basis.

Assuming that most cab drivers drive 12 hr shifts, it's easier to get 24 hours out of it. With an uber/lyft driver, they're most likely not going to driver more then 10/12 hrs.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Look, you clearly don't know me. I say what I mean. All of my posts were informative. I did reread them. The only thing I called you out on that didn't involve hard facts/math was that sexist bit when you called everyone "ladies" in a way that suggested that being called a lady is an insult.


Yes I would be annoyed if someone called me lady, too.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> You must of not read through all the post. If you go back and read you'll see that I tried to bow out of this thread after my initial debate with JD.
> Then Jax comes along and calls me out on stuff that was already hashed out then took something I said to someone else and responded with this insult.
> 
> You don't call someone misogynistic based on one comment that had nothing to do with misogyny. Look through my posts, if you see a theme you might be on to something. But you won't


All right you two. I want you two to make up. Or you don't have to. But it's making me cry.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I ****in love you!


I love you too.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> All right you two. I want you two to make up. Or you don't have to. But it's making me cry.


I'll take a couple dos Equis amber to wash down some homemade tortilla chips and fresh salsa, and we'll be all good.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Exactly! One of the penalties that I couldn't deal with is losing my primary insurance. I just wish uber and the insurance companies could come to sort of an agreement to where there's full coverage, but the monthly cost is affordable to drivers. Cab companies have the advantage in this situation because they're allowed to uses cheaper cars that are much more durable (like chevy caprice, sudans ) and such (shitty gas mileage which drivers usually have to pay anyways). It's easier for them to afford the commercial insurance because they can get more out of their cars on a daily basis.
> 
> Assuming that most cab drivers drive 12 hr shifts, it's easier to get 24 hours out of it. With an uber/lyft driver, they're most likely not going to driver more then 10/12 hrs.


Looks like fraud won't be an issue in my case. I already talked to my insurer, and they said they don't have a problem with me doing Uber. They won't drop me, they just won't cover me when I'm on Uber's dime. In fact, they told me they'd put me on a list of people to be notified with ride share insurance should it become available in my area.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'll take a couple dos Equis amber to wash down some homemade tortilla chips and fresh salsa, and we'll be all good.


In all fairness, I don't see where JBD made any personal attacks. Now uberdude2 I'm not one to judge because I'm certainly guilty of name calling at time, so I know referring to someone as "idiot and such is considered personal.

I think one of the problems when it comes to communicating by text is, anything written down always gets intensified. For example. Have you ever gotten or written a note to your roommate or someone and just don't have a chance to respond right away.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

KingJimmy said:


> Just so you know, I have a slight background in tort law. I also work in the lovely world of default mortgages at a large national bank, and I deal with title and lien issues on a daily basis across most states in America. What you are saying about losing your home should you lose a civil lawsuit is absurd, and is not grounded in reality.
> 
> First, if you should lose a civil law suit and a judgment is actually issued against you, the judgment is considered an unsecured debt. It is an unsecured debt and as such is ultimately subject to the same collection laws any and every other debt you've ever owed. Such does not give them a right to just start seizing your assets, such as a car or a home, and selling them in order to pay the judgment.
> 
> ...


Well don't forget this is UBER. Who consider themselves above and beyond our law, (domestically or internationally). That's something that's going to be added to the curriculum for law students. Business Law especially. That would make for some lively discussion amongst students. Imagine if uber existed when the movie "Paper chase" came out.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> In all fairness, I don't see where JBD made any personal attacks. Now uberdude2 I'm not one to judge because I'm certainly guilty of name calling at time, so I know referring to someone as "idiot and such is considered personal.
> 
> I think one of the problems when it comes to communicating by text is, anything written down always gets intensified. For example. Have you ever gotten or written a note to your roommate or someone and just don't have a chance to respond right away.


I don't want to rehash this all over again. But i need to say this. JaxBeachDriver has been one of favs from the beginning. I know plenty of people like her as well that's why when she referred to me as a misogynist and a sexist it's easy for others to overlook. I'll be honest, it kind of stung a little. Not to mention that's the furthest thing from the truth.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> I don't want to rehash this all over again. But i need to say this. JaxBeachDriver has been one of favs from the beginning. I know plenty of people like her as well that's why when she referred to me as a misogynist and a sexiest it's easy for others to overlook. I'll be honest, it kind of stung a little. Not to mention that's the furthest thing from the truth.


All kidding aside it's good to work these things out, without having those mods swoop in. God forbid if you mention anything to do with politics. I can understand why the mods might close a thread if it gets out of hand, but I don't like is when they make some smirky remark when they do it.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

I used to moderate on boards before and the members that annoyed me the most were the CindyBrady types. (tattletales) and if they would threaten to go over your head (to the admins) if you didn't ban someone they requested. So I have to say that it's not an easy job. I just prefer to let folks work it out themselves.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> sexiest


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> I'll be honest, it kind of stung a little. Not to mention that's the furthest thing from the truth.


I'm glad to know that's not who you are. And I understand we say some non-PC things on here, myself included. But as the mother of a little girl, I hate the idea that being called a woman is offensive. Somehow being a woman is being "less than."


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


>


Awwwwww.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

I haven't seen any catfights in a while.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> I haven't seen any catfights in a while.


I'm a goddamn lioness.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm a goddamn lioness.


I keep forgetting if it is you or fuzzyelvis that always seem to be at opposite ends with the Sacto Defacto. In any case, I always thought he/was was a women. but now im not really sure. So whatever I thought was catfights, now I'm having doubts.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Sacto or Fuzz?


DrJeecheroo said:


> I keep forgetting if it is you or fuzzyelvis that always seem to be at opposite ends with the Sacto Defacto. In any case, I always thought he/was was a women. but now im not really sure. So whatever I thought was catfights, now I'm having doubts.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm glad to know that's not who you are. And I understand we say some non-PC things on here, myself included. But as the mother of a little girl, I hate the idea that being called a woman is offensive. Somehow being a woman is being "less than."


I used to hate being called "boy". I remember our 4th grade teacher referred to girls as "girly". It was a female teacher, but probably made no difference. "Girly" doesn't sound flattering from any gender perspective.

I would figure that women hate to be called "sweetheart" or sweetie or tootsie (love that dustin Hoffman movie) I have to admit that Dabney Coleman calling her/him tootsie was hysterical.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Sacto or Fuzz?


sacto, the umbrella suggests female,


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> sacto, the umbrella suggests female,


It's from How I Met Your Mother, isn't it?


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


>


 Ha ha, i fixed it.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> I used to hate being called "boy". I remember our 4th grade teacher referred to girls as "girly". It was a female teacher, but probably made no difference. "Girly" doesn't sound flattering from any gender perspective.
> 
> I would figure that women hate to be called "sweetheart" or sweetie or tootsie (love that dustin Hoffman movie) I have to admit that Dabney Coleman calling her/him tootsie was hysterical.


Once a pax who was a good 10 years younger than me kept calling me "baby girl." So I called her baby girl back and she didn't seem to like it much herself.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> It's from How I Met Your Mother, isn't it?


that I don't know, I do recall sacto saying the yellow umbrella represents Chinese democracy. thought it still makes me think of Mary Poppins.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Once a pax who was a good 10 years younger than me kept calling me "baby girl." So I called her baby girl back and she didn't seem to like it much herself.


The one im not too wild about, is being called "dude" whether it's m/f. I don't take it personally but for some reason find that word annoying. I only liked it when watching "fast times at ridgemont high".


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> that I don't know, I do recall sacto saying the yellow umbrella represents Chinese democracy. thought it still makes me think of Mary Poppins.


I was wondering what the significance of it is. So Sacto is chinese?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> The one im not too wild about, is being called "dude" whether it's m/f. I don't take it personally but for some reason find that word annoying. I only liked it when watching "fast times at ridgemont high".


I say dude a lot. Comes from being so heavily influenced by the 90's alternative/grunge era, and mtv when it had music and VJs. I also always wanted to use "*****ing" as an adjective. Never felt natural.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I was wondering what the significance of it is. So Sacto is chinese?


She (or maybe he) is still an enigma to me. In some of the debates I can't tell which side she/he is on. I think if there was a third side that would be it. I thought about asking but I don't think I would get a yes or no reply.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I was wondering what the significance of it is. So Sacto is chinese?


Sacto is slang abbreviation for Sacramento
Burb = Suburbs


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I say dude a lot. Comes from being so heavily influenced by the 90's alternative/grunge era, and mtv when it had music and VJs. I also always wanted to use "*****ing" as an adjective. Never felt natural.


What would be the female version of dude? Dudette?


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

When in doubt I usually refer to a female as "maam" in general social situations. If I don't know them.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> What would be the female version of dude? Dudette?


No, just dude. I catch myself saying it to women who are my mom's age sometimes and then I cringe at myself.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> When in doubt I usually refer to a female as "maam" in general social situations. If I don't know them.


That's the worst! I hate being called ma'am.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> No, just dude. I catch myself saying it to women who are my mom's age sometimes and then I cringe at myself.


I would just go with 'maam' to play it safe.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> When in doubt I usually refer to a female as "maam" in general social situations. If I don't know them.


Unless she's so southern that she yodels when she talks, Ms./Miss is generally preferred.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's the worst! I hate being called ma'am.


I used to call my older sister "queenie". Which is certainly not flattering. Or I would call her Lucy (Vanpelt)


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> I would just go with 'maam' to play it safe.


Only when I'm being sarcastic.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Sacto is slang abbreviation for Sacramento
> Burb = Suburbs


I got that. We were talking about the umbrella. I think of How I Met Your Mother every time I see it.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> No, just dude. I catch myself saying it to women who are my mom's age sometimes and then I cringe at myself.


Is that along the same lines as me saying, " have a nice day ladies" to the guys?


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Only when I'm being sarcastic.


When I would go to motor vehicles, I would always wear my SoupNazi shirt, and act almost militant if I thought the person was being rigid land walk stiffly, (some of them believe or not, are very nice), and I'd always act shocked and say "This is motor vehicles correct?.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Now I was just on another thread, I believe sacto made a post, with some quotes from other members, the actionjax one said, you should behave like a gentlemen (yadyadyada)... So I'm assuming it's a he. But that yellow umbrella throws me for a loop.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I got that. We were talking about the umbrella. I think of How I Met Your Mother every time I see it.


Actually, you asked if it was chinese


JaxBeachDriver said:


> I was wondering what the significance of it is. So Sacto is chinese?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Is that along the same lines as me saying, " have a nice day ladies" to the guys?


No. It's along the same lines as white people saying "the homey." As in, "The homey UberDude2 in the house." Then you look at the speaker and say, "Ew, dude, who the **** are you right now?"


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> Actually, you asked if it was chinese


The verdict is still out on that one.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> Actually, you asked if it was chinese


I asked if Sacto was Chinese. Not Sacramento, but the person with the handle "Sacto Burbs." Misunderstandings abound.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I asked if Sacto was Chinese. Not Sacramento, but the person with the handle "Sacto Burbs." Misunderstandings abound.





DrJeecheroo said:


> The verdict is still out on that one.


You asked if Sacto was Chinese and i am saying no. The name Sacto Burbs is a tribute the town he is from.


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Just so you know, I have a slight background in tort law. I also work in the lovely world of default mortgages at a large national bank, and I deal with title and lien issues on a daily basis across most states in America. What you are saying about losing your home should you lose a civil lawsuit is absurd, and is not grounded in reality.
> 
> First, if you should lose a civil law suit and a judgment is actually issued against you, the judgment is considered an unsecured debt. It is an unsecured debt and as such is ultimately subject to the same collection laws any and every other debt you've ever owed. Such does not give them a right to just start seizing your assets, such as a car or a home, and selling them in order to pay the judgment.
> 
> ...


Blah, blah, blah...
You wrote absolute nonsense. You sound like as complete noob, praising ****ing Uber and trying to show stupid math calculations to people who've been had by Uber that your POS Honda is not depreciating and you're making money with Uber, just as advertised. Just shut up for a few months, go risk your property, drive self-entitled Uber pax, pukes vomiting in your POS car and keep eating Uber shit until are full of it. Lick their asses for a better pax rating, enjoy straight-forward responses to your inquiries and concerns from CSR's. Once you have had at least six months behind your belt come back and tell us all here how's life treating you then. Before it happens quit BS-ing us all here, nobody trusts you anyways. People just lough at you with your empty rumblings. You're just a noob and nobody takes you serious here, because you sound like a typical Uber shill, which this forum has seen many.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

UberDude2 said:


> You asked if Sacto was Chinese and i am saying no. The name Sacto Burbs is a tribute the town he is from.


I got the sacramento/surburban part.. but my question regarding nationality (Chinese) is based on sactos avator, the yellow umbrella symbolizing Chinese democracy.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

MikeB said:


> Blah, blah, blah...
> You wrote absolute nonsense. You sound like as complete noob, praising ****ing Uber and trying to show stupid math calculations to people who've been had by Uber that your POS Honda is not depreciating and you're making money with Uber, just as advertised. Just shut up for a few months, go risk your property, drive self-entitled Uber pax, pukes vomiting in your POS car and keep eating Uber shit until are full of it. Lick their asses for a better pax rating, enjoy straight-forward responses to your inquiries and concerns from CSR's. Once you have had at least six months behind your belt come back and tell us all here how's life treating you then. Before it happens quit BS-ing us all here, nobody trusts you anyways. People just lough at you with your empty rumblings. You're just a noob and nobody takes you serious here, because you sound like a typical Uber shill, which this forum has seen many.


All right take it easy there. we were all noobs at one time. I agree most of the uber pax are beyond self entitled. Give him a chance to see for himself. A lot of us had that euphoria in the beginning of our ubering, before all the shyt hit the fan with rate cuts and such.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Looks like fraud won't be an issue in my case. I already talked to my insurer, and they said they don't have a problem with me doing Uber. They won't drop me, they just won't cover me when I'm on Uber's dime. In fact, they told me they'd put me on a list of people to be notified with ride share insurance should it become available in my area.


Good deal! Glad you sought that peace of mind!


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> Good deal! Glad you sought that peace of mind!


If I ever come to Austin, I would like to use your limo service. But I can't of any reason to go there. Do they have a professional sports team. I thought maybe that a football team in the NFL or maybe the NBA. I thought of the Rockets but that's Houston, and the Dallas Stars.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> If I ever come to Austin, I would like to use your limo service. But I can't of any reason to go there. Do they have a professional sports team. I thought maybe that a football team in the NFL or maybe the NBA. I thought of the Rockets but that's Houston, and the Dallas Stars.


You just missed SXSW, but I feel like that's maybe not your scene.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberDude2 said:


> You asked if Sacto was Chinese and i am saying no. The name Sacto Burbs is a tribute the town he is from.


or the town he works in. He could also be born to Chinese parents. My name is JaxBeachDriver but I was born in Scotland.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> or the town he works in. He could also be born to Chinese parents. My name is JaxBeachDriver but I was born in Scotland.


I just thought it was a really strong hint when his profile says he from Sacramento. But of course i could be wrong.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

DrJeecheroo said:


> All right take it easy there. we were all noobs at one time. I agree most of the uber pax are beyond self entitled. Give him a chance to see for himself. A lot of us had that euphoria in the beginning of our ubering, before all the shyt hit the fan with rate cuts and such.


I don't have Uber euphoria. I'm just glad to have a decent part time side gig (read: with no plans of working more than 5-10 hours a week tops). I don't need this job. I just wanna pay off a credit card, boost my savings, and have some extra money to invest with. If Uber starts looking like it's not worth my time, I'll drop it like its hot.

I don't anticipate I'll do this beyond Christmas of this year. God knows I definitely won't continue to do it even that long at the first sign of this simply not being worth it.

I know some of you need Uber, or something like it. Too bad if that's your situation.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

MikeB said:


> Blah, blah, blah...
> You wrote absolute nonsense. You sound like as complete noob, praising ****ing Uber and trying to show stupid math calculations to people who've been had by Uber that your POS Honda is not depreciating and you're making money with Uber, just as advertised. Just shut up for a few months, go risk your property, drive self-entitled Uber pax, pukes vomiting in your POS car and keep eating Uber shit until are full of it. Lick their asses for a better pax rating, enjoy straight-forward responses to your inquiries and concerns from CSR's. Once you have had at least six months behind your belt come back and tell us all here how's life treating you then. Before it happens quit BS-ing us all here, nobody trusts you anyways. People just lough at you with your empty rumblings. You're just a noob and nobody takes you serious here, because you sound like a typical Uber shill, which this forum has seen many.


Mike, it's really pretty simple. You have nothing worth saying. The irony is that you say a lot.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

By the way, if any of us here make above minimum wage doing this gig, we should count ourselves lucky. There are more than 210 million licensed drivers in this country. We don't exactly posses a unique set of skills wherein market forces demand a higher wage for us. 

Anybody who bellyaches about getting screwed income wise on this gig has no room to complain. The only legitimate area to complain about is if James Rivers fails to cover an accident that should be covered under their policy.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> We don't exactly posses a unique set of skills wherein market forces demand a higher wage for us.


This sounds oddly familiar to ridermd or whatever


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> This sounds oddly familiar to ridermd or whatever


Truth has a way of getting around. Especially if you understand some basic economics. It's capitalism, what can I say?

The only thing that separates us from the fry cook at McDonalds, as far as this job is concerned, is that we have to provide our own tools to cook up what the Travis CEO dude is selling. Which is a valid point that he should consider, as not everybody has a reliable car that they are willing to use for commercial enterprise.

But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean too much.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Truth has a way of getting around. Especially if you understand some basic economics. It's capitalism, what can I say?
> 
> The only thing that separates us from the fry cook at McDonalds, as far as this job is concerned, is that we have to provide our own tools to cook up what the Travis CEO dude is selling. Which is a valid point that he should consider, as not everybody has a reliable car that they are willing to use for commercial enterprise.
> 
> But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean too much.


Good luck to you. I'll be looking forward to your updates


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Good luck to you. I'll be looking forward to your updates


Thanks. Hopefully it's something fun. Maybe a pax will leave a winning lottery ticket in the back seat of my car, and then I can go on TV and do a spot for Uber, saying I got rich off ride share


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> Thanks. Hopefully it's something fun. Maybe a pax will leave a winning lottery ticket in the back seat of my car, and then I can go on TV and do a spot for Uber, saying I got rich off ride share


The much more likely event is that someone will puke in the backseat of your car. #debbiedowner


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> The much more likely event is that someone will puke in the backseat of your car. #debbiedowner


LOL. Hopefully not. I'm just targeting the upper middle crust in the burbs on weekends in the afternoon. Hopefully not too many drunk people in the middle of the day. Not a lot of bars in my part of town.


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## subliminal (Apr 21, 2015)

J. D. said:


> Great! Here goes whether you want it or not. As I stated, you've already made up your mind so this is a futile effort. But maybe someone else will glean a bit from it and avoid being taken advantage of.
> 
> 1. That $1,000 car is already a POS. It is near the end of it's life expenctacy or you would not have picked it up for that little. Which means, since there is no depreciation left, you are in the "repair mode". Your repair costs to keep the car in a safe operating condition are going to go through the roof. With increased use for Uber, those repairs are going to be needed much more frequently. Ever wonder why rental car companies sell off their 3 to 5 year old cars? They have the numbers to prove the "repair mode" is more costly than new depreciation. I know, you're going to tell me that you got the perfect car that never wears out. Great. So everyone can go get that perfect POS car.
> 
> ...


But really who the **** cares? If you can take a $1,0000 car and make more than $1,0000 what is the issue? So what if 6 months from now uber changes the rules and requires a newer car you would of still made money up until that point and if you actually have a brain and arent trying to do this full time on a permanent basis you wont really care if uber changes the rules and you are no longer able to do it. It sounds like youre just pissed off cause you werent able to make uber work for you.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

subliminal said:


> But really who the **** cares? If you can take a $1,0000 car and make more than $1,0000 what is the issue? So what if 6 months from now uber changes the rules and requires a newer car you would of still made money up until that point and if you actually have a brain and arent trying to do this full time on a permanent basis you wont really care if uber changes the rules and you are no longer able to do it. It sounds like youre just pissed off cause you werent able to make uber work for you.


The gamble/risk I'm willing to take, is that Uber will do little to depreciate the value of my 2008 Accord, and that the wear and tear on it will be minimal. My hope is that the reliability of my Accord lives up to its reputation. And doing this part time on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon for 5-10 hours every week or two is something that is likely to pan out. It's a reasonable risk.


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## subliminal (Apr 21, 2015)

And as far as the rate cuts I can just about promise you they are not permanent, Its part of Ubers strategy to bankrupt lyft and drive them out of business, Once Uber has the rideshare market by the horns you can bet they will raise rates.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

subliminal said:


> And as far as the rate cuts I can just about promise you they are not permanent, Its part of Ubers strategy to bankrupt lyft and drive them out of business, Once Uber has the rideshare market by the horns you can bet they will raise rates.


There is the need for balance. And if they go public, it's highly likely they will raise rates to satisfy investors yearning for increased revenues.

Heck, even in Charlotte they've already raised rates since they lowered them a few months ago. I'm sure they'll eventually adjust driver compensation too. But that's alright by me. I'll be out of this before it goes too crazy.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

subliminal said:


> And as far as the rate cuts I can just about promise you they are not permanent, Its part of Ubers strategy to bankrupt lyft and drive them out of business, Once Uber has the rideshare market by the horns you can bet they will raise rates.


New Member, how long have you been using uber? How long have you been driving? They talk a good talk and do whatever they want.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> There is the need for balance. And if they go public, it's highly likely they will raise rates to satisfy investors yearning for increased revenues.
> 
> Heck, even in Charlotte they've already raised rates since they lowered them a few months ago. I'm sure they'll eventually adjust driver compensation too. But that's alright by me. I'll be out of this before it goes too crazy.


$1/mile - 20% = 80 cents/mile before expenses.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

$1.10 in Charlotte


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

KingJimmy said:


> $1.10 in Charlotte


No, it's $1.10 base (which is basically a pickup fee) and then $1/mile.


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## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> No, it's $1.10 base (which is basically a pickup fee) and then $1/mile.
> 
> View attachment 7514


Ah, yes, my bad.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> New Member, how long have you been using uber? How long have you been driving? They talk a good talk and do whatever they want.


Once he gets out from under Travis' spell, he'll see the light.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

subliminal said:


> And as far as the rate cuts I can just about promise you they are not permanent, Its part of Ubers strategy to bankrupt lyft and drive them out of business, Once Uber has the rideshare market by the horns you can bet they will raise rates.


I agree with you that the rate cuts are not permanent. But where did you uncover this Uber strategy you state?


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