# Is Uber Dying on the Vine? Lyft right behind...



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

https://markets.businessinsider.com...tock-falls-after-brutal-ipo-2019-5-1028195064


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Uber down 11% as of 12:50pm today, FREE FALL, I’m going to send Dara a tube of lube.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Should it really come as a surprise that if you buy a money losing company you're likely to lose money?


----------



## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

I’d hate to have to hold that dog shit for six months.


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Should it really come as a surprise that if you buy a money losing company you're likely to lose money?


The new math taught in schools today is like giving everyone a participation award.


----------



## TampaGuy (Feb 18, 2019)

Idiots are still buying ?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

It's a failed business model.

They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?

Public school grads?


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

TampaGuy said:


> Idiots are still buying ?


Crazy Cramer warned against uber IPO.
https://www.thestreet.com/video/do-not-buy-uber-stock-jim-cramer-says-14955059


----------



## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


What market did Uber create?


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


Smart people-???


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Should it really come as a surprise that if you buy a money losing company you're likely to lose money?


I know right? It's like I'll buy stock in an unprofitable company and hope for a miracle.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

IR12 said:


> I know right? It's like I'll buy stock in an unprofitable company and hope for a miracle.


It's only losing a billion a quarter. It's not like it's losing 2 billion a quarter!


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


The fundamentals are sound.

It needs quite a bit of tweaking.

Reassessing rates is more important than growth presently.

Undercut taxi rates by 10-30% would result in slower growth, but ensure profitability of the company but reduction in driver acquisition costs.

They also need to cut spending on non core business items.

A new startup might be able to eat their lunch, but I predict a more expensive product with static ridership numbers over the next 10 years.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

The entire business model of public transportation is and always has been deeply flawed. Public forms of transportation have always been money losers on an operating basis. Trains, buses, subways, Taxi's have never been big money makers. Busses and trains have survived based on government subsidies. The only people to ever make big money on Taxi's are the Medallion owners who make big money on the value of the medallion.
IMO the only way Rideshare becomes profitable is to find a niche market, undercut Taxi's by a little, reduce their overhead to programmers to ensure an app that works well. Should easily generate enough revenue on just taking 25% of the ride as a commission. Get back to basics and don't try to conquer the world.


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Seamus said:


> The entire business model of public transportation is and always has been deeply flawed. Public forms of transportation have always been money losers on an operating basis. Trains, buses, subways, Taxi's have never been big money makers. Busses and trains have survived based on government subsidies. The only people to ever make big money on Taxi's are the Medallion owners who make big money on the value of the medallion.
> IMO the only way Rideshare becomes profitable is to find a niche market, undercut Taxi's by a little, reduce their overhead to programmers to ensure an app that works well. Should easily generate enough revenue on just taking 25% of the ride as a commission. Get back to basics and don't try to conquer the world.


If only.


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

IR12 said:


> I know right? It's like I'll buy stock in an unprofitable company and hope for a miracle.


Just like I'm hoping for a hot 20 something sugar momma.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

If only they would cut the in-house employees pay instead of the drivers.

They stock beer in the break rooms. Seriously? I have to pay for beer when I take a break!


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Mista T said:


> If only they would cut the in-house employees pay instead of the drivers.
> 
> They stock beer in the break rooms. Seriously? I have to pay for beer when I take a break!


✂✂✂ I'll drink to that!


----------



## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

peteyvavs said:


> Uber down 11% as of 12:50pm today, FREE FALL, I'm going to send Dara a tube of lube.


36.45 USD −5.17 (12.42%) 
LOVE IT.

LOWER STOCK PRICES MEANS MORE INVESTORS.


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Jo3030 said:


> 36.45 USD −5.17 (12.42%)
> LOVE IT.
> 
> LOWER STOCK PRICES MEANS MORE INVESTORS.


Only idiots would invest in U/L, I'm implying two bad words.


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

1.5xorbust said:


> I'd hate to have to hold that dog shit for six months.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...lion-gone-Uber-tumbles-on-second-13840965.php


----------



## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

Welp, I wasn't expecting -13% but if you insist..

36.16 USD −5.41 (13.01%)


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Jo3030 said:


> Welp, I wasn't expecting -13% but if you insist..
> 
> 36.16 USD −5.41 (13.01%)


How is it possible Uber somehow manages to do everything so badly?


----------



## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

Seamus said:


> IMO the only way Rideshare becomes profitable is to find a niche market, undercut Taxi's by a little,.....


What is this fixation on lower prices than taxi's? Doesn't Uber have a better product, better technology, better cars, better drivers, and better service? Shouldn't that command a premium price? Why are you so afraid of being compensated fairly for the premium experience?


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

UberProphet? said:


> What is this fixation on lower prices than taxi's? Doesn't Uber have a better product, better technology, better cars, better drivers, and better service? Shouldn't that command a premium price? Why are you so afraid of being compensated fairly for the premium experience?


Because while some will pay a premium many will not, they just want the cheapest. Ask Uber select, black,suv etc.etc. who end up doing X rides in their Lincoln Navigator.
Thats why:
1-Pax select Uber X way more than any of the upgraded selections offered.
2-Pax have learned to kill and beat the surge.
3-Heavy user pax will run both Lyft and Uber app and take whichever is cheaper at the time. They don't compare the drivers or cars.
4-Pax are willing to select Pool and suffer the consequences.

Yes, a niche amount of pax will pay more for a better ride but most are perfectly willing to take the cheapest and deal with whatever they get.


----------



## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

Matt Uterak said:


> True. I won't take taxis in many cities because I don't want an anti western death cultistist driving me.
> 
> I cancel as a pax until I get a suitable driver. Can't do that with Taxis.


Yea, that's a little racist.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

This thread was going so nicely


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Matt Uterak said:


> The fundamentals are sound.
> 
> It needs quite a bit of tweaking.
> 
> ...


Have you seen what pax currently pay? It's already UP to 10% to 30% cheaper than a cab. They've cranked the pax rates 3 times in the past 2 years.
One of the things which happens in my cab is pax are shocked how close to Uber rates we actually are.
When I make lots more money is when I'm stuck in traffic. $0.50 per minute adds up quickly.


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

TemptingFate said:


> Economic hardship creates fertile ground for scapegoating minorities. Poorly educated individuals who once benefited by being members of privileged racial/ethnic groups can't understand how they are being exploited and left behind so they target Mexicans, Muslims, immigrants, African Americans, etc. as the cause of their hardship. Trump plays them like a fiddle.


Immigrants do impact wages. Increase labor supply drives down wages.

Add in cultural incompatibility and it is easy to see why blame is assigned (appropriately) to various groups.

Just because you don't like the facts, doesn't change them.

Globalism is the number 1 cause of wage stagnation in the US. That means immigration and trade policy, primarily.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Eventually those taking X rides in their Navigator will quit. There you will have stuff like this:









I wonder if he has an Aux cable or gives out water?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Guys, Uber is dying. Try and concentrate.
Stab the beast with steely knives.
I'll get the noose.


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Dying on the vine?
Must be what happens when you plant the seeds of the Grapes of Wrath.


----------



## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

Drivers hate the Company. For good reason. Uber will fail because they are only about making money for those at leadership positions. They are Visionless. They are transparently greedy. Travis was booted and the energy and mission statement went with him.



Lowestformofwit said:


> Dying on the vine?
> Must be what happens when you plant the seeds of the Grapes of Wrath.


Great play on words.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

TBH, I don't want them or Lyft to fail.

What they need to do is quit dumping tons of cash into that volcano known as SDC's. IMHO, the IPO looks like a cash grab by the VC's and there will be nothing left after the vultures have picked over the bones.

They are victims of their own timing. They probably thought they would be farther on the path to AV's. The side stuff, like eats or scooter or ... was an attempt to buy time. It didn't happen and fully autonomous cars are still years away. So, they continue to lose money, file bankruptcy and sell off their SDC assets or they sell their SDC crap now and stick with what can make them money - arranging rides.

If, at a later date, SDC's become more viable, they can buy back into it (if they have been profitable.)

Just my pair-a-dimes...


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

BREAKING NEWS:
Shopfitters have been seen at Uber HQ today, fitting a new revolving door at the entry to the CEO's office.
A spokesman said the work was being carried out to "facilitate regular transitions in operating arrangements".


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Hey this forum most boring without uber trolls. Those miserable leaches licking their wounds now really hurting my feelings. This place no fun without them please come back, Don't leave now. Not exciting when only people here agree with each other. Can we rub it in for just a while.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> Hey this forum most boring without uber trolls. Those miserable leaches licking their wounds now really hurting my feelings. This place no fun without them please come back, Don't leave now. Not exciting when only people here agree with each other. Can we rub it in for just a while.


Troll surge?

Might work


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Lyft apps down


----------



## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Because while some will pay a premium many will not, they just want the cheapest. Ask Uber select, black,suv etc.etc. who end up doing X rides in their Lincoln Navigator.
> Thats why:
> 1-Pax select Uber X way more than any of the upgraded selections offered.
> 2-Pax have learned to kill and beat the surge.
> ...


I agree with what you have said, that most are shopping for the cheapest ride. Not all, but most were buss riders before. SO that still leaves some riders that are willing to pay for superior quality in service. You can either try to take em all, or just aim to take a few, make the same amount of $. I'd much rather do 3 or 4 rides a day, making +$200, than doing a dozen rides in the same amount of time, making less than $100. Yes the lyft lux and other premium requests are lower, but you make up for it by marketing your services directly to the clients/pax, using uber/lyft as a lead generator. I get about 1 out of every 3 lux request will subsequently call me directly on their next ride, bypassing the dispatch system that uber/lyft have created using an app.



Jo3030 said:


> Yea, that's a little racist.


I didn't think so, just self preservation. ;/


----------



## Riley3262019 (Mar 26, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


Greed won't let them make a profit and has ensured that they are the worst company to partner with (driver partner). Its a no brainer that since they have chosen to treat their over 3 million driver partners as dirt, there is no way they will get good representation in the market place. And to think that they have the gall to compare themselves to Amazon? How daring?


----------



## donny donowitz (Feb 12, 2019)

UberProphet? said:


> What market did Uber create?


Ponzi scheme 2.0


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

donny donowitz said:


> Ponzi scheme 2.0


Uber created the bullchit market. What else?


----------



## donny donowitz (Feb 12, 2019)

CarpeNoctem said:


> TBH, I don't want them or Lyft to fail.
> 
> What they need to do is quit dumping tons of cash into that volcano known as SDC's. IMHO, the IPO looks like a cash grab by the VC's and there will be nothing left after the vultures have picked over the bones.
> 
> ...


The candle is burning on both ends for UBER. On one end of the candle, they are pouring money into AV, an idea that IF it even gets off the ground, is decades away from being safe, AND 2 to 8 times more expensive than having a human driving a car. 
On the other end of the candle, you have increasingly amounts of hugely underpaid drivers, some of which are pushing for employee status. If that ever happens, either by legislation or court ruling, that would mean UBER would have more employees than Walmart.
They would have to slash their number of employees by 90%.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Make it hurt. Don't leave any funds in your uber lyf account overnight. It's another revenue stream for the companies, they both definitely get overnight float interest which more than cover CEO s salaries. Cash out everyday. Pass this on


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

kcdrvr15 said:


> You can either try to take em all, or just aim to take a few, make the same amount of $. I'd much rather do 3 or 4 rides a day, making +$200, than doing a dozen rides in the same amount of time, making less than $100.


As a driver I agree 1000%. With patience, experience, and learning how to play the surge you could decline a lot of rides till you got the one you were looking for. Make $40 to $75 on 1 trip while ants took 10 to 15 rides to get that. Problem now is oversaturation has severely limited what worked in the past.
You have a good strategy getting premium pax and poaching for private future business. Those are exactly the type that are poachable and pay well for a service. I know a few others that do the same and do well. Nicely done.


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

I heard the lookout shout down "There's icebergs around
But still everything's all right"


----------



## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

IR12 said:


> How is it possible Uber somehow manages to do everything so badly?


because they're delusional
"a flaw in the premise appears in the conclusion"



Seamus said:


> As a driver I agree 1000%. With patience, experience, and learning how to play the surge you could decline a lot of rides till you got the one you were looking for. Make $40 to $75 on 1 trip while ants took 10 to 15 rides to get that. Problem now is oversaturation has severely limited what worked in the past.
> You have a good strategy getting premium pax and poaching for private future business. Those are exactly the type that are poachable and pay well for a service. I know a few others that do the same and do well. Nicely done.


uber has two choices. let us cherry pick, or raise rates to the point that most rides are worth doing. Fact is that Uber and Lyft threaten and sometimes deactivate drivers for skillfully being selective over what rides they want to do. I'd say 1 out of 10 rides that come my way are worth doing. Generally, even with the limited info we get, I can predict if a ride is going to be trash. I think they should allow us to select if we want short/medium/long rides. Then also allow us to clearly see the pick up and drop off point when we get the request. If they don't have a rating, it should say No Rating so we can decide for ourselves of we want to be adventurous or not. Uber/Lyft should also help us with the screening process. We should be able to set filters, such as whether we want minors in our car (obviously accompanied by an adult, but there should be a fee as well for under 8 pax) or smelly food, etc. Passengers should be asked these things when requesting. THERE SHOULD ALSO BE A CHARGE PER PERSON. 1 person should not be the same price as 2 or more. How about like $3 extra per passenger, and a hefty fee if any of the information provided is inaccurate upon the driver arriving. Riders need to be accountable. No more doing whatever they want.


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Riley3262019 said:


> Greed won't let them make a profit and has ensured that they are the worst company to partner with (driver partner). Its a no brainer that since they have chosen to treat their over 3 million driver partners as dirt, there is no way they will get good representation in the market place. And to think that they have the gall to compare themselves to Amazon? How daring?


Dara was really stretching there. 
Why compare uber who underpays & outright jips drivers to Amazon who owes 17 BILLION in taxes?


----------



## Ubsz (Jan 25, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> Public school grads


More like private school grads, actually. More than half of the employees are white, rich kids who went to preppy schools



Mista T said:


> If only they would cut the in-house employees pay instead of the drivers.
> 
> They stock beer in the break rooms. Seriously? I have to pay for beer when I take a break!


My friend is constantly posting pick of free lunches and events 
The blow millions on that stuff



No Prisoners said:


> Make it hurt. Don't leave any funds in your uber lyf account overnight. It's another revenue stream for the companies, they both definitely get overnight float interest which more than cover CEO s salaries. Cash out everyday. Pass this on


Not sure, they might get a cut of the instant transfer worth way more


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Guys, Uber is dying. Try and concentrate.
> Stab the beast with steely knives.
> I'll get the noose.


Not close to dead. The fact is they just raised about *$8 Billion more dollars.*


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


More like charter school. Or maybe the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania? ??


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> Make it hurt. Don't leave any funds in your uber lyf account overnight. It's another revenue stream for the companies, they both definitely get overnight float interest which more than cover CEO s salaries. Cash out everyday. Pass this on


Brilliant!! 

By the way. Where's your top secret digital system you bragged would take down Uber?

#zerocredibility


----------



## Ubereater (Dec 25, 2015)

UberProphet? said:


> What market did Uber create?


Public and food teleportation..cheap..

Well, that's what in the mindset of millennials anyway, thanks to the dehumanization of drivers by Uber "technologies".


----------



## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

Seamus said:


> As a driver I agree 1000%. With patience, experience, and learning how to play the surge you could decline a lot of rides till you got the one you were looking for. Make $40 to $75 on 1 trip while ants took 10 to 15 rides to get that. Problem now is oversaturation has severely limited what worked in the past.
> You have a good strategy getting premium pax and poaching for private future business. Those are exactly the type that are poachable and pay well for a service. I know a few others that do the same and do well. Nicely done.


Remember, the key is - Don't get mad, get even and then some.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> The new math taught in schools today is like giving everyone a participation award.


Except...

Everyone with money _to invest_ predates "participation" trophies.

Take your typical "investor" and you have 3 camps.

A. People who pay to have people WAY smarter than me analyze the numbers,

B. People who analyze the results carefully and make a decision themselves,

C. People who follow like sheep and invest their money based on analysts reports in the financial articles and market trends.

...

So...

A. Anyone paying a pro to handle their money.... they are selling because there's no end to the freefall.

B. Anyone who understands the math? They are selling for the same reasons.

C. The sheeple? All the analysts and the news reports are chasing them away.

The diehard uber fan?










Do you really think those idiots have the spare money to float uber?

LOL...


----------



## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

goneubering said:


> Not close to dead. The fact is they just raised about *$8 Billion more dollars.*


It won't last long with the lawsuits they're about to receive.


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

itsablackmarket said:


> It won't last long with the lawsuits they're about to receive.


That, and you just know they'll go on new, hair-brained acquisition sprees now they've got a cash buffer.
Even if they don't, at $3 bill a year loss,
8/3 = 2.66 years to zero.


----------



## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

IR12 said:


> Dara was really stretching there.
> Why compare uber who underpays & outright jips drivers to Amazon who owes 17 BILLION in taxes?


Plenty of stories how Amazon treats it's "Employees" who work in their warehouses. Kind of similar to how Uber pisses on their drivers. Although I would rather be a slave in my nice comfy car when I can just log off when tired then running around a warehouse sweatshop for 8 or whatever hours a day.


----------



## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


Imagine if you start a Walmart / gas station chain of your own in every city and start selling at half price what others are selling. What will happen? You will capture the existence market. You didn't create a new market. You just destroyed the existence one and scare the hell out the other healthy competitors. But someone is chipping in for the 50% loss, it's the drivers, who are the biggest looser. The company and their investors are not going to loose even a single dime in this adventure. Though they may not make as much as they thought. Total scam.



Lowestformofwit said:


> That, and you just know they'll go on new, hair-brained acquisition sprees now they've got a cash buffer.
> Even if they don't, at $3 bill a year loss,
> 8/3 = 2.66 years to zero.


Probably the ipo was their only hope to extend their life because of their bleeding money problem until SDC becomes a reality, or their investors group realize that better cash it now before it's too late. Good thing is they didn't raise enough capital which will give them only 3 years max time period.

Personally I believe If they haven't done ipo, they might have survived. Now it's going to be hard to convince more investment from the private investors because they lost the lust of the ipo bubble. If they have gone public in the SDC era, that could be a total different game.


----------



## Ankido (Jul 28, 2017)

Here's how it works. You introduce ride share it's a new system. People like being in different cars. We all know Taxi drivers are weird. With Ride Share, it's like riding with a friend, family member or whatever you want to call it. It's a chill ride. The consumer got used to the idea and is hooked. Raise the prices, they will still use Ride Share instead of Taxi's. It's more convenient. Right now, I'm not making anything to save my life. It was good a few months ago and I made good money. Now I'm struggling to get above water. If nothing changes within the next month, I see this ride share business tanking really bad.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Ankido said:


> Here's how it works. You introduce ride share it's a new system. People like being in different cars. We all know Taxi drivers are weird. With Ride Share, it's like riding with a friend, family member or whatever you want to call it. It's a chill ride. The consumer got used to the idea and is hooked. Raise the prices, they will still use Ride Share instead of Taxi's. It's more convenient. Right now, I'm not making anything to save my life. It was good a few months ago and I made good money. Now I'm struggling to get above water. If nothing changes within the next month, I see this ride share business tanking really bad.


Agreed. They have set the hook so it's time to reel in the profits by raising rates and driver pay. It is not always a bad thing to lose market share. It would give them a chance to catch up, lose less per ride, and also shed some of the drivers with rust buckets that cherry pick or scam.

Case in point is the people that were willing to pay surge rates when the local cab company was a phone call away.


----------



## Ubsz (Jan 25, 2019)

If you used to be a driver, it’s time for you to get out and maximize what you made from Uber. If you are a new driver, you should have never joined


----------



## GT500 (May 14, 2019)

Once upon a time private transportation worked 

Wasn’t free 

But it worked


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

GT500 said:


> Once upon a time private transportation worked
> 
> Wasn't free
> 
> But it worked


I look at them like I look at what happened to McDonalds.

They went from Decent food fast

To

Bad food slow

And thought no one would notice.


----------



## Ankido (Jul 28, 2017)

I question my riders all the time. They agree that ride share is convenient. They will never use Taxi cabs ever again. Kinda sad for the cabbies because they need to make a living as well. It's nice to share the road. They are hooked but not reeled. They will pay the surge they don't care. Is U/L noticing this? They just want the working ants to do the whole work while the queen bee saves all the moola for something that will no longer require us. Many drivers have promised. If they see Autonomous vehicles in the streets it will get ugly. You better believe a war will break out because millions of people will lose jobs. Future stuff is good and I love technology. Not the kind that makes humans obsolete.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Ankido said:


> I question my riders all the time. They agree that ride share is convenient. They will never use Taxi cabs ever again. Kinda sad for the cabbies because they need to make a living as well. It's nice to share the road. They are hooked but not reeled. They will pay the surge they don't care. Is U/L noticing this? They just want the working ants to do the whole work while the queen bee saves all the moola for something that will no longer require us. Many drivers have promised. If they see Autonomous vehicles in the streets it will get ugly. You better believe a war will break out because millions of people will lose jobs. Future stuff is good and I love technology. Not the kind that makes humans obsolete.


I profit every day in my cab.
Fake news.


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Rideshare was going to be a latter-day version of the promised “land of milk and honey” for TNC’s.
Drivers got milked, while they collected the honey.
The VC’s that tried to collect their share of that honey from the ended up getting stung.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I profit every day in my cab.
> Fake news.


I profit every day I sign out a taxi,

But then again i get many multiple fares a day where the taxi was more convenient that taking an uber.

*le me dropping off*

Can I get a ride?

"Once this guy gets his credit card receipt, like 30 seconds"

*guy i'm dropping off gets out, new guy gets in*

"I was totally going to call an uber but your right here, pretty lucky huh"

"Ya don't say..."

"How do you make money doing this with uber around?"

"Why did you get into the taxi?"

"You were right there?"

"Parked in the taxi-stand for Mall"

"Seriously?"

"Yes"

"But there's not enough of those stands for you to do that ALL the time is there?"

"The stand i picked you up at is just a very minor one of many, 6 major theme parks that close every night, the airport, like a dozen hotels, plus dispatch from everyone who doesn't use uber/lyft by accident or design. "

"What do you mean by that? They can't use uber/lyft by accident or design?"

"their phone is out of juice, so a valet or hostess calls a cab, they had no intention of hiring a ride ever but their car wouldn't start. They had too many drinks know they can't drive but don't feel like downloading the uber app and setting everything up, cause ya know they are three sheets to the wind"

Yeah..

That story except it happens with slight variations every time i take out a taxi.

"i'd take an uber but"

Surprising amount of the time, it's not surge dodgers.


----------



## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Ankido said:


> Here's how it works. You introduce ride share it's a new system. People like being in different cars. We all know Taxi drivers are weird. With Ride Share, it's like riding with a friend, family member or whatever you want to call it. It's a chill ride. The consumer got used to the idea and is hooked. Raise the prices, they will still use Ride Share instead of Taxi's. It's more convenient. Right now, I'm not making anything to save my life. It was good a few months ago and I made good money. Now I'm struggling to get above water. If nothing changes within the next month, I see this ride share business tanking really bad.


When guber started their business 10 years ago, they were only in black suv and luxury rides business with minimum $5 per mile rates. When guberx came into existance, the rates were $1.80 per mile with 0.40 per minute. If they have kept the rates atleast at $1.50 per mile with atleast 75% payments goes to driver, they probably had not lost billions of $$$ and have drivers retention ratio of 96%. With the current rates, everybody is making more money than rideshare drivers include panhandlers. For me it was over when upfront pricing was introduced. If you don't want to go homeless, find another job before it's too late.


----------



## Thebezzlecontinues (May 16, 2019)

I'm pretty new to uber, but it does seem as if lyft's promotions have put a dent in their business at least in my area. 
That or there are a lot more drivers scratching for a small piece of pie.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Thebezzlecontinues said:


> I'm pretty new to uber, but it does seem as if lyft's promotions have put a dent in their business at least in my area.
> That or there are a lot more drivers scratching for a small piece of pie.


More drivers in most areas.


----------



## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

UberProphet? said:


> What is this fixation on lower prices than taxi's? Doesn't Uber have a better product, better technology, better cars, better drivers, and better service? Shouldn't that command a premium price? Why are you so afraid of being compensated fairly for the premium experience?


That won't happen until they go driverless...


----------



## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

UberProphet? said:


> What market did Uber create?


Stupidity?

Ahhhh hang on, that could be investors OR drivers.

.
.


----------



## Nitedriver (Jun 19, 2014)

IR12 said:


> https://markets.businessinsider.com...tock-falls-after-brutal-ipo-2019-5-1028195064


absolutely normal at the beginning , remember FB ??


----------



## donny donowitz (Feb 12, 2019)

Nitedriver said:


> absolutely normal at the beginning , remember FB ??


Except Facebook has a sustainable business model.


----------



## Nitedriver (Jun 19, 2014)

donny donowitz said:


> Except Facebook has a sustainable business model.


debatable


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Nitedriver said:


> debatable


Facebook revenue is through advertising.
Also data mining. They sell everyone's data.


----------



## donny donowitz (Feb 12, 2019)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Facebook revenue is through advertising.
> Also data mining. They sell everyone's data.


UBER generates revenue off the backs of its drivers, then pools that revenue with the venture capital it received to subsidize the cheap rides that we provide, then spends it all on developing AV which is 2x to 8x more expensive than rideshare with humans driving.
UBER is a money making scheme which is about to implode.


----------



## Nitedriver (Jun 19, 2014)

interesting ..kinda bernie maddoff ..or not ?? I think it will calm after another 4 weeks..
Uber eats will save them


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Looks like the Dead Cat Bounce may be over.
Uber/Lyft stocks fell more today.


----------



## Nitedriver (Jun 19, 2014)

looks like its steady

*
41.86*
-0.05 -0.12%
After Hours Volume: 52.5K

CLOSECHGCHG %$41.91-1.09-2.53%
05/17/2019 03:21 PM EDTUS:UBER$42.1182
Advanced Charting


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Early investors have been propping both stocks up all week.


----------



## zoobadger (Feb 20, 2019)

CarpeNoctem said:


> TBH, I don't want them or Lyft to fail.
> 
> What they need to do is quit dumping tons of cash into that volcano known as SDC's. IMHO, the IPO looks like a cash grab by the VC's and there will be nothing left after the vultures have picked over the bones.
> 
> ...


Any company whose business model is dependent on the fantasy of SDC's is doomed. Even if the technology were workable, a new Uber would come along and beat an SDC-based company on both price and service. Human drivers are cheap, especially when we provide the cars ourselves. Why would Uber even want to own their own fleet of grossly expensive super-high tech vehicles?

Imagine the filth in an un-manned car after a dozen hours of unsupervised use? SDC's might work in a suburb with minimal traffic and orderly, predictable road conditions but nobody needs a ride there. Where rideshare is in demand - dense, complex, urban areas - SDC's will never work without an impossible revolution in traffic control and regulation.

And if Uber is all about SDC's, then do that, and that alone. Build and sell SDC's. Why did they create a human based transportation system at all? Netflix didn't invent streaming. They leveraged it when the technology emerged of its own accord.

RCA didn't invent radio technology. In fact, they stymied it, hindering the emergence of FM because they had so much sunk cost in AM.


----------



## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

zoobadger said:


> Any company whose business model is dependent on the fantasy of SDC's is doomed. Even if the technology were workable, a new Uber would come along and beat an SDC-based company on both price and service. Human drivers are cheap, especially when we provide the cars ourselves. Why would Uber even want to own their own fleet of grossly expensive super-high tech vehicles?
> 
> Imagine the filth in an un-manned car after a dozen hours of unsupervised use? SDC's might work in a suburb with minimal traffic and orderly, predictable road conditions but nobody needs a ride there. Where rideshare is in demand - dense, complex, urban areas - SDC's will never work without an impossible revolution in traffic control and regulation.
> 
> ...


True. Along with maintenance and the filth, they will need teams of troubleshooters to go out and get them unstuck because someone propped a door open, a flat or the SDC don't know the way out or any other myriad of possible reasons. Maybe in 30, 40 or 50 years from now when SDC's are stupidly simple and the tech is dirt cheap then maybe they can turn a profit.

When I think about it, I don't know of any company that started, and survived, with such an ambitious and costly goal. Microsoft bought a CPM knockoff for 5 figures to resell to IBM. google, Apple, HP, all started with a few guys in their basement. IBM made their PC with off the shelf components. Amazon started by selling used and new books.

Imagine the Wright brothers starting out to build the space shuttle and have the public pay for it. SMH


----------



## lowcountry dan (Jun 15, 2017)

Nitedriver said:


> absolutely normal at the beginning , remember FB ??


Apples and oranges. It's a ridiculous comparison.


----------



## PaxiCab (Feb 14, 2019)

lowcountry dan said:


> Apples and oranges. It's a ridiculous comparison.


Exactly, like noted above - transportation needs a complete revolution to implement smooth traffic of SDCs, I'd say 30 years would do it. I mean if we are gonna talk a technical autonomous vehicle industry revolution, a good comparison is with one of the most controversial tech mecca corps in the world, apple. it took jobs and that whole crew 30 to almost 40 years for IBM - MacBook Air. Fuber is trying to buy time and crunch and crunch until the layer is so thin it disappears. and they will have no drivers working for 0.02/minute and .04/mile. Sdcs will be in barely novice roll out in limited capacity for heavy testing. Hell, Uber already released their ad for uberAir to launch in 2023. nobody in uber hq has any idea of the time it takes to do anything. Money can make you stupid too.


----------



## Just Chillin (Apr 22, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> It's a failed business model.
> 
> They put together a great system, created a market, have millions of users each day, and can't make money?
> 
> Public school grads?


The only way they survive is by paying out incentives to keep drivers from quitting, they will continue losing dollars until they have perfected the driverless vehicle and then there will be no jobs for the uneducated slugs doing uber and lyft. I drive for a company that pays me to drive using there vehicle and gas and them paying tolls. Why anyone would destroy there own vehicle to make a few dollars is beyond me, but it will continue with all the immigrants who keep coming into the country each day.


----------



## zoobadger (Feb 20, 2019)

Just Chillin said:


> The only way they survive is by paying out incentives to keep drivers from quitting, they will continue losing dollars until they have perfected the driverless vehicle and then there will be no jobs for the uneducated slugs doing uber and lyft. I drive for a company that pays me to drive using there vehicle and gas and them paying tolls. Why anyone would destroy there own vehicle to make a few dollars is beyond me, but it will continue with all the immigrants who keep coming into the country each day.


Three random thoughts:

Would U/L be profitable if they behaved like an airline and focused exclusively on fares and basic transportation and ceased investments in anything other than human based driving tech? I'd choose Uber over a taxi in Chicago even at the same price because the cars are typically clean and the drivers are generally not raving nut-cases (keep paying sub minimum wage and that will change, though).

I think rideshare is probably viable but not if you're throwing most of your revenue down an R and D rathole based on an unattainable tech that may or may not provide lower costs even if if it comes to fruition in a reasonable timeframe.

The self driving business model assumes that people will use shared rides. Even with human drivers, shared rides are rare. I cancel 70% of shared requests and only 5% of my pings are shared. Pax prefer point to point as well, obviously. Shared rides are slow, socially awkward, complicated, and everybody hates them.

Lastly, even when SDCs emerge, how long after that before the cost of owning and maintaining this massive fleet of Jetson-style vehicles is cheaper than a fleet of cars owned by humans?

And nobody has bothered to ask this essential question: how much cheaper does it need to be for people to choose a robot car over a human? If it's only 15-20% I'm calling a human driver. Everybody is assuming immediate and totals marketplace acceptance of driverless tech. They might be wrong.


----------

