# Let's Clear Up Confusion and Concern about GST Changes



## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)




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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

...could not be any clearer but still will be "controversial"...


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

It has been explained many many times before, and still there are a multitude of threads that keep springing up. It's kinda like a game of Whack-A-Mole. Noone's bottom line has changed as a result of Uber having to pay GST.


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## Hugh G (Sep 22, 2016)

I choose not to pass any judgement until the 7,000 members of a very effluent social media group endorse this evidence presented.

A petition is underway as we speak and it is expected to be presented to Uber. 

Once Uber fully understand the people-power they are up against I am told they will surrender to the social media's demands. A nomination for a position on the Uber Board of directors from a high profile member of the social media group is imminent. 

Cue to enter discussion......


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Hugh G said:


> Cue to enter discussion......


Enter, stage right!


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> View attachment 183306
> mmm....


You're forgetting the 5 cent amounts that Uber used to leave behind.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> But no longer do they pay the drivers the 5 cents.


Correct. Paid for 20% and 25% figures, not paid for 22% and 27.5% figures. That brings them into equality.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> View attachment 183334


Still incorrect, for reasons we've already debated ad nauseam.


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## prk (Jul 9, 2015)

Who is John Galt? -cue Andie


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## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)

UberDriverAU said:


> You're forgetting the 5 cent amounts that Uber used to leave behind.


They no longer leave that in the driver's account. The pay the GST on their Booking Fee directly to the ATO.



UberDriverAU said:


> Still incorrect, for reasons we've already debated ad nauseam.


You're still wrong, for reasons ...


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

MyRedUber said:


> You're still wrong, for reasons ...


If I'm wrong, then you are also wrong about there being no change to anyone's bottom line. Feel free to discuss it with Paul all that you like, as I will no longer waste my time on this sort of thing with him. If you are genuinely seeking to clarify any confusion, I'd advise you to do the same.



Paul Collins said:


> Such as?


There's a reason we use the Dory caricature in reference to you Paul. I know you've forgotten it, but there is a reason.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

prk said:


> Who is John Galt? -cue Andie


Thanks, Babe. 

I appreciate the heads-up



















PS. I have never noticed how many black Caprices there are in Adelaide before. 

.


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## prk (Jul 9, 2015)

Who is John Galt? said:


> PS. I have never noticed how many black Caprices there are in Adelaide before.


yes, they're everywhere.


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## Hugh G (Sep 22, 2016)

*Signature*
_"This is where the trolls play, have fun under your bridge."_

The heavy storm on the Sunshine Coast appears to have washed away all recent contributions to this forum by one of our more active members.

Does anybody know if the "_trolls living under the bridge_" he refererred to have survived this horrendous downpour ?


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Who is John Galt? said:


> Thanks, Babe.
> 
> I appreciate the heads-up
> 
> ...


Who vandalised my post?


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## U8er (Sep 11, 2017)

Rasier Pacific will and should provide tax invoice for the trips after 1 December.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

U8er said:


> Rasier Pacific will and should provide tax invoice for the trips after 1 December.


They do. I was not sure if the booking fee was going to have the gst included, but it is. I was wrong.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> They do. I was not sure if the booking fee was going to have the gst included, but it is. I was wrong.


An Australian company that is registered for GST charges a booking fee. How was it ever going to be anything but GST inclusive? There is no other logical conclusion. The fact that you can't see something as simple as this and need to wait for verification says a lot about why we take the piss out of you. It's very difficult to have a logical and rational debate with someone who's not logical and rational.


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## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)

UberDriverAU said:


> An Australian company that is registered for GST charges a booking fee. How was it ever going to be anything but GST inclusive?


You're presuming that the Booking Fee would remain the same after the change on Dec 1st.
That's a stupid assumption on your part.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

MyRedUber said:


> You're presuming that the Booking Fee would remain the same after the change on Dec 1st.
> That's a stupid assumption on your part.


And until I see exactly how the split fees are handled I will not assume they will be correct. They have not been to date. I am also waiting to see how promotion funds are paid. GST free till now. Perhaps it will also have GST or it could still be paid by Raiser OS gst free.



UberDriverAU said:


> An Australian company that is registered for GST charges a booking fee. How was it ever going to be anything but GST inclusive? There is no other logical conclusion. The fact that you can't see something as simple as this and need to wait for verification says a lot about why we take the piss out of you. It's very difficult to have a logical and rational debate with someone who's not logical and rational.


Yes, I waited until verification and you and 'others/trolls' think that is all that is required to 'take the piss out of me'.

What is your assumption on the promotional income?

It is completely logical and rational to wait to see the actual data or evidence.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

MyRedUber said:


> You're presuming that the Booking Fee would remain the same after the change on Dec 1st.
> That's a stupid assumption on your part.


Uber is fairly good at communicating changes to fees. The lack of communication about changes to the booking fee made it a safe bet that no changes would be made to it.


Paul Collins said:


> What is your assumption on the promotional income?


Was a supply made for consideration? If so, it will be a taxable supply and you will need to pay GST on it. This is the logical way of determining whether any particular income from Rasier Pacific Pty Ltd is subject to GST.


Paul Collins said:


> Perhaps it will also have GST or it could still be paid by Raiser OS gst free.


If it's made by an overseas entity then it's subject to the Netflix Tax provisions, and whether it's a taxable supply will depend on whether you've advised your ABN and GST details.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> Uber is fairly good at communicating changes to fees. The lack of communication about changes to the booking fee made it a safe bet that no changes would be made to it.
> 
> Was a supply made for consideration? If so, it will be a taxable supply and you will need to pay GST on it. This is the logical way of determining whether any particular income from Rasier Pacific Pty Ltd is subject to GST.
> 
> If it's made by an overseas entity then it's subject to the Netflix Tax provisions, and whether it's a taxable supply will depend on whether you've advised your ABN and GST details.


So to sumerise we do not know who will pay the promotional income to drivers. Rasier OS or Raiser Pty Ltd. 
You are assuming that if it is Rasier OS then it WILL have GST in it that drivers must remit if they have supplied their ABN/GST, correct?


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> So to sumerise we do not know who will pay the promotional income to drivers. Rasier OS or Raiser Pty Ltd.
> You are assuming that if it is Rasier OS then it WILL have GST in it that drivers must remit if they have supplied their ABN/GST, correct?


No, the other way around. GST is payable if you have *not* provided your ABN and GST details.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> No, the other way around. GST is payable if you have *not* provided your ABN and GST details.


So promotional income from Uber if sent from Raiser OS will not have any GST included and drivers will not need to remit any GST is they have provided their ABN. That is your guess? Just trying to clarify, so forgive my ignorance.

My 'guess' is that the OS payment for promos will not include GST. I could be wrong, so I await a pay stammer or invoice that shows the promo income. Anyone got one?


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> So promotional income from Uber if sent from Raiser OS will not have any GST included and drivers will not need to remit any GST is they have provided their ABN. That is your guess? Just trying to clarify, so forgive my ignorance.


Actually no that's wrong. I'm thinking of expenses, which I was just dealing with so I mixed myself up a little. From memory, the ATO considers the promo payments to be not "connected with the indirect tax zone", so they're not subject to GST. If these payments start coming from Rasier Pty Ltd then they will become "connected with the indirect tax zone" and therefore subject to GST. It's not relevant for me in any case as I don't do referrals.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> Actually no that's wrong. I'm thinking of expenses, which I was just dealing with so I mixed myself up a little. From memory, the ATO considers the promo payments to be not "connected with the indirect tax zone", so they're not subject to GST. If these payments start coming from Rasier Pty Ltd then they will become "connected with the indirect tax zone" and therefore subject to GST. It's not relevant for me in any case as I don't do referrals.


Boosts are also promo as it is not charged to the rider. Not just referrals.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> Boosts are also promo as it is not charged to the rider. Not just referrals.
> View attachment 183899


I've never seen these in Perth. Wouldn't that simply be paid out like a standard surge fare? It's similiar to when Uber gives a discounted fare, the driver receives more than the rider paid, and Uber makes up the difference.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> Boosts are also promo as it is not charged to the rider. Not just referrals.


My feeling with these types of promos is that they will form part of the consideration related to the trip you have provided, so they're subject to GST like a standard fare is. Some other promos are different because they're not tied to specific trips.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> I've never seen these in Perth. Wouldn't that simply be paid out like a standard surge fare? It's similiar to when Uber gives a discounted fare, the driver receives more than the rider paid, and Uber makes up the difference.


No, as riders do not pay for Boost, or referrals income. Nothing like a discounted fare really, but that does raise another GST issue seperately.



UberDriverAU said:


> My feeling with these types of promos is that they will form part of the consideration related to the trip you have provided, so they're subject to GST like a standard fare is. Some other promos are different because they're not tied to specific trips.


The rider does not pay the 'Boost' or 'Referrals' and it is nothing like surge, which the riders do pay. Promotional money as boosts, referrals etc have not had any GST included in them to date.Promotional income can also be when uber 'guarantee' a per hour rate and pay the drivers the difference if they do not make $35 per hour for example. This is also not paid by the riders and has been GST free to date.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> ............ we've already debated ad nauseam.


Why stop now?

.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Who is John Galt? said:


> Why stop now?


I saw the stop sign this time.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> I saw the stop sign this time.


You were not aware of boost, guaranteed hours rates and seem to have little understanding of how promotional income was paid as GST free previously. I would think that was not a stop sign, but perhaps for you it is?


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> You were not aware of boost, guaranteed hours rates and seem to have little understanding of how promotional income was paid as GST free previously. I would think that was not a stop sign, but perhaps for you it is?


I'm happy to discuss and learn about things I have no or limited knowledge of, I'm not happy to rehash things we've debated ad nauseam. And yes, I do know how guaranteed hours promos work. The only time I've had to deal with them as a driver was more than a couple of years ago, and I almost invariably exceeded the hourly rate on offer so few incentives were actually paid out to me. Uber in Perth does not do a lot of promos. I can't actually remember the last time they ran one.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> I'm happy to discuss and learn about things I have no or limited knowledge of, I'm not happy to rehash things we've debated ad nauseam. And yes, I do know how guaranteed hours promos work. The only time I've had to deal with them as a driver was more than a couple of years ago, and I almost invariably exceeded the hourly rate on offer so few incentives were actually paid out to me. Uber in Perth does not do a lot of promos. I can't actually remember the last time they ran one.


Have we discussed the way Uber might handle promotional payments to drivers in regard to GST before?
Can not rehash something that has not been discussed in my opinion.

So you guess is that the promotional payments paid to drivers who have quoted their ABN/GST, post DEC 1, will be inclusive of GST and drivers will remit the tax. Correct?

I guess that promotional payments will remain as is and be GST free income as they will come from Raiser OS.

Now, we wait for the actual data.

For ease of text, when I quote 'drivers' again it will be drivers who have supplied their ABN/GST to Uber.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> Have we discussed the way Uber might handle promotional payments to drivers in regard to GST before?
> Can not rehash something that has not been discussed in my opinion.


Have a review of this thread. You should, but I'm not certain that you will, better understand what I mean.


Paul Collins said:


> So you guess is that the promotional payments paid to drivers who have quoted their ABN/GST, post DEC 1, will be inclusive of GST and drivers will remit the tax. Correct?


I don't think anyone can make a blanket statement that covers all promotions. The details of each promotion may see it fall within the scope of the GST, while others won't. The devil is in the detail.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> Have a review of this thread. You should, but I'm not certain that you will, better understand what I mean.
> 
> I don't think anyone can make a blanket statement that covers all promotions. The details of each promotion may see it fall within the scope of the GST, while others won't. The devil is in the detail.


True. I did reread and I did misunderstand you.

So it will depend on each promotional type as to its GST status. Mmmm...

And in general your understanding is that payment from Raiser OS for promotional, will be gst free income still to drivers who quote their Abn to Uber?

I still think all promotional income will be GST free income, as it has been as well. So we agree at least in general terms. Specific promo payments may or may not be treated differently for GST purposes. Got it.

You also stated that Uber are good at communicating fees but in the case of the booking fee and now promotional items, they have not. It has been left to the drivers to make assumptions until we see the actual data.

Surely someone here has a screenshot to share of their post Dec 1 payments for promo and also the 'partner invoice' for that period post Dec 1?


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## Astro63 (May 27, 2017)

Latest pay statements are missing the promos this week, so we are still non the wiser regarding GST on them. 

Now that Raiser Pty Ltd are GST registered and hence pay the GST on the booking fee, I really don't understand why we are still involved in that bit. The booking fee (including GST) is paid by the rider to Raiser Pty Ltd who in turn should pay the GST to the ATO, we as drivers are no longer needed in the transaction (before we were because it was the only way the ATO could get their money).


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Astro63 said:


> Now that Raiser Pty Ltd are GST registered and hence pay the GST on the booking fee, I really don't understand why we are still involved in that bit. The booking fee (including GST) is paid by the rider to Raiser Pty Ltd who in turn should pay the GST to the ATO, we as drivers are no longer needed in the transaction (before we were because it was the only way


The way it is seen by the ATO is Uber takes money from the rider on our behalf. So their view is that we have received whatever the rider paid. Uber then takes their fees from that money and forwards on what is left. So the booking fee payment is our assessable income, and the booking fee deduction is an allowable deduction.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Astro63 said:


> Latest pay statements are missing the promos this week, so we are still non the wiser regarding GST on them.
> 
> Now that Raiser Pty Ltd are GST registered and hence pay the GST on the booking fee, I really don't understand why we are still involved in that bit. The booking fee (including GST) is paid by the rider to Raiser Pty Ltd who in turn should pay the GST to the ATO, we as drivers are no longer needed in the transaction (before we were because it was the only way the ATO could get their money).


The GST on the booking fee is paid by Raiser Pacific Pty Ltd and the charge for the booking fee is GST inclusive to us, which we can use as a GSY credit.
Still need to see if Raiser Pacific Pty Ltd include promo payments as GST inc or ex.


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

...enough is enough, too much talking about GST all the time,let's talk about something else,maybe we can talk about GST????...


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