# Long hours, isolating loneliness, and confusing fees: Uber drivers in Washington D.C. are struggling to make ends meet



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

https://amp.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-washington-dc-struggling-to-make-ends-meet-study-2019-4
New research from Georgetown University has codified what many Uber drivers have felt for years: it's hard to get ahead when your boss is an algorithm.

Researchers published their study on Thursday, after more than two-years of interviewing 40 drivers in the Washington D.C. area. The results aren't meant to be representative of the thousands of "partners," as Uber calls them, working on the platform worldwide.

Rather, "the data collected and reviewed here is evidence of the structures of work that Uber drivers navigate and the kinds of worker challenges that many face in one of the most visible platform workplaces," the authors said. The anecdotes also corroborate stories told to Business Insider from multiple drivers across the country in recent months.

Among the litany of frustrations with Uber - both with the company and app - expressed by drivers in interviews was one glaring problem: half of the drivers interviewed take home so little per month, less than $2,000 per month, that they fall below the government's definition of poverty.

"Since it has been operating in Washington, D.C., Uber has reduced its base rate for drivers several times, added a rider safety fee (and then increased it, calling it a booking fee), and raised the commission it takes from new drivers," the study said. "These changes, which are built into the heart of the Uber platform, seem to have a point: to keep Uber drivers on the road and in the dark. "

To its credit, Uber does have options available for drivers when the unexpected, like a flat tire or car crash happens, but even those can sometimes cause more harm than good. The researchers compared the practices to coal mining company's "company towns" of centuries past. Here's one anecdote, emphasis ours:


> One 48-year old driver, Joan, got caught up in Uber's debt trap after she hit a pothole and damaged her car's suspension system. She spent nearly all the money she had to get the car fixed. Then, when efforts to repair the vehicle failed, she spent more to lease a car from Uber.While the Uber Xchange program offered lower credit barriers than traditional lenders, the payments which Uber automatically deducted from drivers' paychecks, were high. *It resembled a company town.* Joan paid $138, more than the national lease average of $100 per week. Before she worked for Uber, Joan would collect giveaway items from Craigslist and re-sell them on eBay or at flea markets. Her regular income of roughly $35,000 as a school bus driver covered her mortgage but not groceries for herself and her son. Joan started driving for Uber a couple nights after work, making for 16-hour days. But within a year Joan quit Uber and returned the car. Even after driving six to seven days per week, she found herself behind on bills.


Uber took issue with many of the studies findings, pointing to the company's "180 days of change" program, which it launched in June 2017 to combat its damaged reputation in the wake of sexism allegations and the departure of founder Travis Kalanick.

"Uber has changed a lot since this research was started. Driver-partners are the heart of our service - and Uber would not be what it is today without them," a company spokesperson said in an email. " Building on what we've already introduced, like in-app tipping, a redesigned driver app, Instant Pay, and new rewards programs like Uber Pro, we'll continue to improve the experience for and with drivers, every day."

There's also a distinct lack of community felt by Uber drivers, the study found.

*"*75% of the drivers in this study said that they had never had a drink or meal with anyone else who had ever driven for Uber," the study said. "The lack of physical space in which workers met or congregated creates a material barrier to collective identities and deeply shapes the geography of labor and possibilities for collective bargaining in the platform workplace."

That's driven many drivers to online forums like uberpeople.net , where drivers discuss everything from pay, to best practices and more. Often, online forums are the only place drivers can interface with others to compare their interactions with the company.

Uber has fought hard to keep drivers classified as independent contractors rather than full-fledged employees, which it would be required to provide with benefits. The company warned in its IPO filing this month that it could seriously damage its business if drivers were considered employees instead of contractors.

"Our conclusion is straightforward," the researchers said. "The patterns identified in this study raise questions about the extent to which working conditions in the ride-hailing industry conform to contemporary labor standards."

You can read the full study here.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

WOW !!!

A database of 40 drivers citing isolation, no social interaction, and low wages.

Where's my birdcage, it needs a new liner.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

observer said:


> https://amp.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-washington-dc-struggling-to-make-ends-meet-study-2019-4


UBER DRIVERS EVERYWHERE ARE STRUGGLING !

" UNSUSTAINABLE" !

Uber is a Spider sucking the Life out of You AND YOUR CAR !


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## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

*"*75% of the drivers in this study said that they had never had a drink or meal with anyone else who had ever driven for Uber," the study said. "The lack of physical space in which workers met or congregated creates a material barrier to collective identities and deeply shapes the geography of labor and possibilities for collective bargaining in the platform workplace."

https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-washington-dc-struggling-to-make-ends-meet-study-2019-4


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## NORMY (Jan 2, 2017)

The shitter gang hangs out and even smoke weed


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Nice shout out to up.net! But, no matter how many of these studies come out showing what a crappy gig this has become, I doubt they have much impact at all. Drivers keep signing up to drive and riders keep ordering without care to what the drivers make. It will be laws and regulations or just their own business incompetence that ultimately ends the farce.

The worst though are the ill-informed and misleading comments by the idiots on Facebook and Instagram like Martha from Bumblestick, Kansas: " I don't know what's wrong with y'all but I always make over $20/hour and am my own boss. Where else can I get that? Thanks Uber!!! ❤ ?"


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

This is the reason why the forum exists. To let people have conversations with their fellow drivers, and exchange advice, situations, complaints, etc. etc.
Many here use this as a 'water cooler' between pings, moreso than a 'how to manual.'

It's right there in the article:

_"That's driven many drivers to online forums like uberpeople.net, where drivers discuss everything from pay, to best practices and more. Often, online forums are the only place drivers can interface with others to compare their interactions with the company. " _


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Well the REALLY depressing thing...

Any "study" is yesteryears rates, not today's... So I immediately assume that reality is much worse today than the survey would indicate.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Weep. Sadness.

It took them two years to investigate this? Fail.


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## NORMY (Jan 2, 2017)

Love UP


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

mrpjfresh said:


> Nice shout out to up.net! But, no matter how many of these studies come out showing what a crappy gig this has become, I doubt they have much impact at all. Drivers keep signing up to drive and riders keep ordering without care to what the drivers make. It will be laws and regulations or just their own business incompetence that ultimately ends the farce.
> 
> The worst though are the ill-informed and misleading comments by the idiots on Facebook and Instagram like Martha from Bumblestick, Kansas: " I don't know what's wrong with y'all but I always make over $20/hour and am my own boss. Where else can I get that? Thanks Uber!!! ❤?"


Unfortunately you are correct. Uber and Lyft will not fix this on their own. It will be fixed by laws and regulations because these businesses would not do the right thing.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

As soon as there is a shortage of drivers Uber will raise the rates.


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## Chaisomosa (Sep 24, 2018)

UP is an addiction...


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Uberchampion said:


> *"*75% of the drivers in this study said that they had never had a drink or meal with anyone else who had ever driven for Uber," the study said. "The lack of physical space in which workers met or congregated creates a material barrier to collective identities and deeply shapes the geography of labor and possibilities for collective bargaining in the platform workplace."
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-washington-dc-struggling-to-make-ends-meet-study-2019-4


When your master is an algorithm, there is definitely no negotiating for a better deal!!! LOL, :coolio::coolio::coolio::coolio:



NORMY said:


> The shitter gang hangs out and even smoke weed


Don't forget some of them have made the "shitter" their 2nd home. A concrete cottage with an outhouse. LOL.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> When your master is an algorithm, there is definitely no negotiating for a better deal!!! LOL, :coolio::coolio::coolio::coolio:
> 
> 
> Don't forget some of them have made the "shitter" their 2nd home. A concrete cottage with an outhouse. LOL.


Or a country... with a border lol


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

"Our conclusion is straightforward," the researchers said. "The patterns identified in this study raise questions about the extent to which working conditions in the ride-hailing industry conform to contemporary labor standards."
Their conclusion is definitely correct, however,
I think that 40 drivers is a very low  sampling for this study. Were they randomly chosen or did they volunteer? Did all drivers drive in the same area of D.C.? $2,000/month seems a tad low for full time drivers.
As for these drivers never interacting with fellow drivers -- ???. I question that. I talk to drivers all the time, both Lyft & Uber. Airport holding yard, while eating, etc. They see the logos on the car and approach me.


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## UbeRoBo (Nov 19, 2015)

Yup


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## rideshare2870 (Nov 23, 2017)

With how little people make with this gig, you should not have a car payment while doing this. What does it look like when you have to fork over what little you made to a car payment? This is just my opinion since people all over this forum from different parts of the world complain about the pay.


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## partyrideMT (Apr 21, 2019)

rideshare2870 said:


> With how little people make with this gig, you should not have a car payment while doing this. What does it look like when you have to fork over what little you made to a car payment? This is just my opinion since people all over this forum from different parts of the world complain about the pay.


If you have an older, paid-off vehicle, already high miles, but runs well.... you can keep $25/hour working only part time Fri/Sat. You can keep $14/hour doing Uber eats on normal weeknights. Yeah, it's not great pay, but keep your costs down and it's better than a scheduled shift at McDonalds. So, fulltime drivers aren't making a lot, that's for sure. However, I'd bet most drivers fall into this category: Hey I'm bored and I don't need the money, but there's a surge going on and driving beats staying at home watching Netflix. Or, I need something to do for a few hours before I pick up the kids from school - don't care if I earn $5/hour (I know someone personally who rode with a soccer-mom doing that type of driving)


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## Hbcolo (Mar 27, 2019)

They bring up Uber Pro as if that is some kind of a benefit. All they do is use Uber Pro to force you to do the quest to make the money you were making before you had an Uber Pro status. Uber Pro Bass V makes you feel like an employee force you to do rides if you wouldn't do to try and make the money you would have made had it not been there.


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## ABQuber (Jan 30, 2019)

Hbcolo said:


> They bring up Uber Pro as if that is some kind of a benefit. All they do is use Uber Pro to force you to do the quest to make the money you were making before you had an Uber Pro status. Uber Pro Bass V makes you feel like an employee force you to do rides if you wouldn't do to try and make the money you would have made had it not been there.


Hey it is. Those of us not driving in major cities don't even get bonuses. All we make is just from each ride. And the occasional surge. We have time in between rides out here most times due to a massive over saturation of drivers.

Long as a company has an abundance of people willing to do the job, they will pay you exactly as much as they need to. Until PR becomes a problem.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

partyrideMT said:


> If you have an older, paid-off vehicle, already high miles, but runs well.... you can keep $25/hour working only part time Fri/Sat. You can keep $14/hour doing Uber eats on normal weeknights. Yeah, it's not great pay, but keep your costs down and it's better than a scheduled shift at McDonalds. So, fulltime drivers aren't making a lot, that's for sure. However, I'd bet most drivers fall into this category: Hey I'm bored and I don't need the money, but there's a surge going on and driving beats staying at home watching Netflix. Or, I need something to do for a few hours before I pick up the kids from school - don't care if I earn $5/hour (I know someone personally who rode with a soccer-mom doing that type of driving)


It depends where you are. There are plenty of markets where its a struggle to take home $10 per hour. And that's before expenses.



ABQuber said:


> Hey it is. Those of us not driving in major cities don't even get bonuses. All we make is just from each ride. And the occasional surge. We have time in between rides out here most times due to a massive over saturation of drivers.
> 
> Long as a company has an abundance of people willing to do the job, they will pay you exactly as much as they need to. Until PR becomes a problem.


I'm IN a major city. I'm getting no promotions and there's very little surge. Of course now its the added $2.50 surge.

The markets where you can still do ok are few and far between now. Doesn't matter what kind of market it is. It's about driver rates and driver saturation.


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## UbeRoBo (Nov 19, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> UBER DRIVERS EVERYWHERE ARE STRUGGLING !
> 
> " UNSUSTAINABLE" !
> 
> Uber is a Spider sucking the Life out of You AND YOUR CAR !


So true. The wise got out a long time ago. All that is left is fools gold.


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