# What The Hell Happened To The PICK-UP TRUCK?!



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Bloomberg has a great piece on the increasing blind spots in large pick-up trucks and SUVs.

Giant, furious trucks are more than just a polarizing consumer choice: Large pickups and SUVs are notably more lethal to other road users, and their conquest of U.S. roads has been accompanied by  a spike in fatalities among pedestrians and bicyclists. As I wrote in my 2020 book _Right of Way: Race, Class, and the Silent Epidemic of Pedestrian Deaths in America_, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the _Detroit Free Press _have pointed to the rise in SUVs and large pickups as the main culprit in the pedestrian mortality surge.

The truck trend is contributing to another troubling crash-related disparity: In a new study, the IIHS shows that women - who tend choose smaller vehicles - are suffering higher injury and death rates than their male counterparts, despite the fact than women engage in fewer risks and crash less.

Why have pickup trucks morphed into such huge, angry, and dangerous presences? Traffic safety experts, commentators on U.S. automotive culture, and social scientists have suggested a range of forces behind truck bloat.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck

[HEADING=1]Make way for "petro-masculinity"[/HEADING]
But that doesn't mean the decision to buy a $50,000 truck with a 4,200-pound payload rating for the occasional trip to the golf course or hardware store is strictly rational. Personal vehicles are not merely functional appliances: They are used as refuges, fortresses and private enclaves, and serve as important signifiers of class and gender identity, as Sovacool explored in a 2018 study.

To Albert, the booming appeal of bigger and more brutish trucks reflects "a crisis of masculinity," he says. "Nothing could be more emasculating than driving a minivan. So you want the vehicle that's going to maintain your performative masculinity."


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Yup... We all should be driving tiny appliances and everything would be great. 🤦‍♂️ Actually... We should all ride a ****ing bicycle. That would be a prefect way to eliminate all vehicle vs. pedestrian accidents. :thumbup:


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Nah, it's $50,000 of debt for most, not $50,000 of truck.

I rather having the money in my retirement funds where it grows instead of stuck paying off a depreciating vehicle for 5-7 years.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

TomTheAnt said:


> Yup... We all should be driving tiny appliances and everything would be great. &#129318;‍♂ Actually... We should all ride a @@@@ing bicycle. That would be a prefect way to eliminate all vehicle vs. pedestrian accidents. :thumbup:


Or we could all use little clown cars or be like this guy in 2nd pic.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Invisible said:


> Or we could all use little clown cars or be like this guy in 2nd pic.
> View attachment 575801


Apparently, there is no middle ground?


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Apparently, there is no middle ground?


 Nope. &#128512;. Everything now is one big extreme or the other.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

I think it all started with the Hummer.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

observer said:


> I think it all started with the Hummer.


They tried finding Middle Ground and even a more affordable middle ground with the H3 &#128517;



Kurt Halfyard said:


> Giant, furious trucks are more than just a polarizing consumer choice: Large pickups and SUVs are notably more lethal to other road users, and their conquest of U.S. roads has been accompanied by  a spike in fatalities among pedestrians and bicyclists


I don't think trucks are the main culprit of pedestrian bicyclist deaths. They could play a part in a few cases, especially for new owners who aren't used to driving the vehicle. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world. I know where I'm at, more than not it's The Pedestrian or bicyclists fault. More recently you can add scooters to that list. It's quite alarming how many people just step out in front of you because they think they have the right of way. It's almost like they're challenging you and some do actually challenge you. It's disgusting because even if I'm at fault, it's still a 5000 pound truck against your body. You're going to lose dude regardless of who gets the ticket. Bicyclist running red lights are a constant issue here. I had one driving the wrong way, down a one-way, coming at me and yelling at me! The amount of times I have someone literally walk behind my vehicle as I'm backing out is absurd. Most of the time, yes that would be my fault but who the hell raised you? A driver is trying to pay attention all four sides of their vehicle as they're backing out. what the hell makes you think that they are going to see you? Or driving down the road at night and some person dressed all in black is just walking down the middle of the road. clearly they can see headlights coming yet make no effort whatsoever to move over the side of the road. I won't lie, over the years, I've hit three people downtown. You want to know how many tickets I got? 0. Cops were called out and in 1 incident the victim ended up getting arrested! This entitlement era we are in has absolutely gotten out of control


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> I don't think trucks are the main culprit of pedestrian bicyclist deaths. They could play a part in a few cases, especially for new owners who aren't used to driving the vehicle. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world. I know where I'm at, more than not it's The Pedestrian or bicyclists fault. More recently you can add scooters to that list. It's quite alarming how many people just step out in front of you because they think they have the right of way. It's almost like they're challenging you and some do actually challenge you. It's disgusting because even if I'm at fault, it's still a 5000 pound truck against your body. You're going to lose dude regardless of who gets the ticket. Bicyclist running red lights are a constant issue here. I had one driving the wrong way, down a one-way, coming at me and yelling at me! The amount of times I have someone literally walk behind my vehicle as I'm backing out is absurd. Most of the time, yes that would be my fault but who the hell raised you? A driver is trying to pay attention all four sides of their vehicle as they're backing out. what the hell makes you think that they are going to see you? Or driving down the road at night and some person dressed all in black is just walking down the middle of the road. clearly they can see headlights coming yet make no effort whatsoever to move over the side of the road. I won't lie, over the years, I've hit three people downtown. You want to know how many tickets I got? 0. Cops were called out and in 1 incident the victim ended up getting arrested! This entitlement era we are in has absolutely gotten out of control


So true! Also, a lot of debate about driver distractions, but nothing about pedestrian distractions, i.e. their stupid phones. 



observer said:


> I think it all started with the Hummer.


That damn Government Motors! :biggrin:


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

TomTheAnt said:


> So true! Also, a lot of debate about driver distractions, but nothing about pedestrian distractions, i.e. their stupid phones.
> 
> 
> That damn Government Motors! :biggrin:


Or the fact that they just blatantly disregard the law. Because why? Because they don't feel like they need to follow it! WTF? Here the bicyclists and pedestrians are upheld to the same rules as Motor Vehicles. Are they enforced as much as Motor Vehicles? Only when there is an actual incident but not proactively. The bicyclists actually had a rally or protest here called, "stop killing us"! How about you all stop running red lights? How about y'all start following the laws?&#129324;


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Daisey77 said:


> Or the fact that they just blatantly disregard the law. Because why? Because they don't feel like they need to follow it! WTF? Here the bicyclists and pedestrians are upheld to the same rules as Motor Vehicles. Are they enforced as much as Motor Vehicles? Only when there is an actual incident but not proactively. The bicyclists actually had a rally or protest here called, "stop killing us"! How about you all stop running red lights? How about y'all start following the laws?&#129324;


In the past month we've had groups of cyclists, 30-40 of them, take over streets slowing traffic down because you can't go around them.

They do wheelies, ride 5-6 across, pedal as slowly as possible etc.

One of these guys was clipped a couple weeks ago by someone trying to go around them. The cyclists caught up to the driver and broke his window and assaulted him.

They are getting out of hand.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

observer said:


> In the past month we've had groups of cyclists, 30-40 of them, take over streets slowing traffic down because you can't go around them.
> 
> They do wheelies, ride 5-6 across, pedal as slowly as possible etc.
> 
> ...


It's not the cyclists or the 'rolling coal' set necessarily, but it is the Tribalism. Until the USA works out it's TRIBALism issues (aka identity politics, trumpism, rural/city, etc.) nothing is going to get done, and the rest of the world will eventually pass the USA as it slowly chokes on its own rage.

https://robertreich.org/post/80522686347


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

I'll take 50k trucks all day long over idiots with 4th or 5th hand 500HP to 700HP death trap terrorizing your neighborhood intersection or freeway....


























Funny how nobody is making a big deal out of the high HP RWD cars that are dirt cheap to buy these days...

As bad as the big HP Hemi V8's are they have nothing on the idiots running around in rental spec V6 Dodge Challenger's or V6 Mustang's and Camaro's. Those are the worst by far!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Bloomberg has a great piece on the increasing blind spots in large pick-up trucks and SUVs.
> 
> Giant, furious trucks are more than just a polarizing consumer choice: Large pickups and SUVs are notably more lethal to other road users, and their conquest of U.S. roads has been accompanied by  a spike in fatalities among pedestrians and bicyclists. As I wrote in my 2020 book _Right of Way: Race, Class, and the Silent Epidemic of Pedestrian Deaths in America_, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the _Detroit Free Press _have pointed to the rise in SUVs and large pickups as the main culprit in the pedestrian mortality surge.
> 
> ...


Petro Masculinity !

LOVE IT !








Enjoy your " Gender Neutral" Prius.










Fusion_LUser said:


> I'll take 50k trucks all day long over idiots with 4th or 5th hand 500HP to 700HP death trap terrorizing your neighborhood intersection or freeway....
> 
> View attachment 575849
> 
> ...


Hemis blow up at 130,000 miles.



Fusion_LUser said:


> I'll take 50k trucks all day long over idiots with 4th or 5th hand 500HP to 700HP death trap terrorizing your neighborhood intersection or freeway....
> 
> View attachment 575849
> 
> ...


a charger with v-6 @ police auction will easily last TWICE as long as a Hemi & will STILL go over 130 mph.

Cams & valve trains in police Hemis are WEAK !







You must Rebuild them to be the engines they Should Have been.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> Petro Masculinity !
> 
> LOVE IT !
> View attachment 575865
> ...


It's not the actual V6 models that are the problem. It's the owners who can't afford the cheap V8's for sale and have to settle for the cheap V6 models then try to drive them like their idiot V8 owning friends... these V6 owners are the worst. They compensate with stupid loud exhaust and even worse driving!


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Pick-ups trucks are only "Giant, furious", "huge angry", "brutish" to the Soy Boy who used to be a man.
(Oops, sorry, Soy _Person_ who used to be a, um, _person_)

Another attempt of cancel culture filing their empty lives, begging for attention with their fake rage, now triggered by pickup trucks? 
What's next? Whine about Dr. Seuss or the Muppets....oh wait...never mind....

Throw in some of the usual Anti-America hate speech (from the Canadian OP)...
Throw in some self promoting SPAM...
And you get the most ridiculous thread/post in UP.net history....well, until the OP's next one, I'm sure.

Then a follow up post from OP mentioning Tribalism and Trumpism, of course, to solidify the ridiculousness.

But trucks...
But Trump...
But America...

LMAO.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Pick-ups trucks are only "Giant, furious", "huge angry", "brutish" to the Soy Boy who used to be a man.
> (Oops, sorry, Soy _Person_ who used to be a, um, _person_)
> 
> Another attempt of cancel culture filing their empty lives, begging for attention with their fake rage, now triggered by pickup trucks?
> ...

















The news only SHOWS what they want them to BELIEVE of America !


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Truck testicles says everything that needs to be said about the mentality of certain folks.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Truck testicles says everything that needs to be said about the mentality of certain folks.


Ferrari Understood









Testatarossa


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Invisible said:


> Or we could all use little clown cars or be like this guy in 2nd pic.
> 
> View attachment 575801
> View attachment 575803


That first one still looks like a gas guzzling boat! And not very practical in the rain unless it's a convertible!

Now this little gem here, on the other hand, is more practical :roflmao:










Reminds me of a colleague from work a few years ago who bought a (ehem) Smart car. He showed up late at work (small building, parking was right in the building) showing it off, saying he just picked it up.

My first reaction was "_so, when are you picking up the rest of it?_"


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

I will never understand the American pathology with large cars, SUVs and Trucks. Sadly, this has infected Canada as well.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I will never understand the American pathology with large cars, SUVs and Trucks. Sadly, this has infected Canada as well.


could be worse.
Could be " saggy pants " !


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Saggy Pants? You mean pants below the butt-crack. That is still a thing? I thought that ended in the mid 1990s...


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Mash Ghasem said:


> That first one still looks like a gas guzzling boat! And not very practical in the rain unless it's a convertible!
> 
> Now this little gem here, on the other hand, is more practical :roflmao:
> 
> ...


Hahaha. But the one with the toilet is the most practical for those doing deliveries. No more frustration with trying to find a clean bathroom.



Kurt Halfyard said:


> Truck testicles says everything that needs to be said about the mentality of certain folks.


Yes I've seen those balls hanging on many trucks here.

Normally the big F150 drivers are road bullies here in the sticks. It always cracks me up to see short, tiny guys driving these huge trucks. I know they're compensating for lack of size in other areas.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Apparently, there is no middle ground?


The left side is a bidet



Invisible said:


> Hahaha. But the one with the toilet is the most practical for those doing deliveries. No more frustration with trying to find a clean bathroom.
> 
> 
> Yes I've seen those balls hanging on many trucks here.
> ...


Porcelain will help keep the drinks cold


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I'll take 50k trucks all day long over idiots with 4th or 5th hand 500HP to 700HP death trap terrorizing your neighborhood intersection or freeway....
> 
> View attachment 575849
> 
> ...


These guys literally just shut down a section of one of our interstates a couple weeks ago. We have a group of racers in town that no one seems to want to do anything about. Well a couple weeks ago 600-800 of them, literally shut down and overtook the section of Interstate. They were racing, doing burnouts, etc. I've encountered them multiple times while driving overnight

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Police-Hundreds-of-street-racers-block-highway-16010245.php
They wouldn't allow the place to access the area? No wonder no one respects the Aurora Police Department&#129318;‍♀
https://www.policemag.com/597864/street-racers-block-colorado-highway


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> These guys literally just shut down a section of one of our interstates a couple weeks ago. We have a group of racers in town that no one seems to want to do anything about. Well a couple weeks ago 600-800 of them, literally shut down and overtook the section of Interstate. They were racing, doing burnouts, etc. I've encountered them multiple times while driving overnight
> 
> https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Police-Hundreds-of-street-racers-block-highway-16010245.php
> They wouldn't allow the place to access the area? No wonder no one respects the Aurora Police Department&#129318;‍♀
> https://www.policemag.com/597864/street-racers-block-colorado-highway


Thanks for the WhataboutIsm. Have a good one.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Thanks for the WhataboutIsm. Have a good one.


Thanks for the what? Whataboutism? I don't know what that means lol but my post wasn't directed at you. I was responding to @Fusion_LUser 's post about the car meet's folks


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> Thanks for the what? Whataboutism? I don't know what that means lol but my post wasn't directed at you. I was responding to @Fusion_LUser 's post about the car meet's folks


Meaning we are talking about Trucks, and you respond, "BUT WHATABOUT*" the souped up cars.
This is a terrible way to discuss/argue about an issue.
It derails the discussion by deflecting from the actual discussion.
Also: BOTH ARE TERRIBLE. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT??!!

*what·a·bout·ism
/ˌ(h)wədəˈboudizəm/

_noun_
British
noun: *whataboutism*

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.
"the parliamentary hearing appeared to be an exercise in whataboutism"


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT??!!


Funny, I was going to ask you the same thing.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

They got to F ing big, that is what. Beds smaller and cabs bigger. Makes no sense that a 2020 F150 weighs 1700 pounds more than A 74 F150 with similar equipment.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> They got to F ing big, that is what. Beds smaller and cabs bigger. Makes no sense that a 2020 F150 weighs 1700 pounds more than A 74 F150 with similar equipment.


That's because people got too F'ing big... A 2020 family weighs 1700 pounds more than a 1974 family! :roflmao:

There's a funny scene from the movie "_Captain Fantastic,_" where 6 siblings who grew up isolated out in the sticks come out in the world for the first time. This was one of their first reactions.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Bear drives a minivan, because that's what bear stole from the human bear ate. Also, the bed of minivan is comfortable for sleeping.

Bear does not worry about masculinity because bear is not a man. Bear feels plenty ursine driving the van. And bears have enormous penises.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Bear drives a minivan, because that's what bear stole from the human bear ate. Also, the bed of minivan is comfortable for sleeping.
> 
> Bear does not worry about masculinity because bear is not a man. Bear feels plenty ursine driving the van. And bears have enormous penises.


Research shows . . .
Bear may be " STRETCHING " the Truth !


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I will never understand the American pathology with large cars, SUVs and Trucks. Sadly, this has infected Canada as well.


Do not worry... I'm sure it is only a matter of time before the left-wing politicians ban these Suburban Assault Vehicles, or pass some common-sense regulations on them like a 5 gallon gas tank limit or mandate that they must have a manual transmission.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> Research shows . . .
> Bear may be " STRETCHING " the Truth !
> 
> View attachment 576359
> View attachment 576361


Polar bears are, well, you know... at the pole with all that ice!


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Bloomberg has a great piece on the increasing blind spots in large pick-up trucks and SUVs.
> 
> Giant, furious trucks are more than just a polarizing consumer choice: Large pickups and SUVs are notably more lethal to other road users, and their conquest of U.S. roads has been accompanied by  a spike in fatalities among pedestrians and bicyclists. As I wrote in my 2020 book _Right of Way: Race, Class, and the Silent Epidemic of Pedestrian Deaths in America_, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the _Detroit Free Press _have pointed to the rise in SUVs and large pickups as the main culprit in the pedestrian mortality surge.
> 
> ...


I shopped the mid sized trucks before buying what I bought. The midsize do a good job with utility, but their resale and marginally better gas mileage is what ultimately turned me off of them. The Titan I'm in now isn't even the biggest, but I agree that these things are freaking huge. I would be ok with less bulk if it translated to better MPG and better value, but I haven't seen that in a midsize yet.

Oh and I have automatic breaking on my truck, so I won't be running over anyone with my 3" augmentation 



observer said:


> I think it all started with the Hummer.


Will Bill Clinton ever live that down? Oh wait, nevermind....


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)




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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

I've got an appointment to go test drive this thing, just for spite.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

TXUbering said:


> I've got an appointment to go test drive this thing, just for spite.
> 
> View attachment 576625


Those Side-view mirrors look like Jai alai scoops.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Kurt Halfyard said:


>


Probably crashed into a police car . . .


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> Research shows . . .
> Bear may be " STRETCHING " the Truth !
> 
> View attachment 576359
> View attachment 576361


That's just the bone though, not the rest of the equipment. Humans don't even have a penis bone!


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I will never understand the American pathology with large cars, SUVs and Trucks. Sadly, this has infected Canada as well.


America thanks you for your service, Canada.

Now, would you pass me some maple syrup please?

https://driving.ca/chevrolet/auto-n...g-truck-assembly-back-to-oshawa-ontario-plant


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Funny thing is that I grew up less than 2 kilometers from that Assembly plant. 
I think they made IMPALAS before they closed a few years ago.
I'd rather see it come back as a battery manufacturing plant for GMs line of EVs
Ford converted their minivan plant in Oakville (about 50 miles from Oshawa) to a battery factory.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Funny thing is that I grew up less than 2 kilometers from that Assembly plant.
> I think they made IMPALAS before they closed a few years ago.
> I'd rather see it come back as a battery manufacturing plant for GMs line of EVs
> Ford converted their minivan plant in Oakville (about 50 miles from Oshawa) to a battery factory.


I think a big part of the popularity of super-sized vehicles is a side effect of low interest rates and ongoing stimulus payments combined with (relatively) affordable gas prices.

Back in the 13% inflation early 80's, a four year auto loan was 18%. I guarantee you, NO ONE drove a vehicle any bigger than necessary. The only people that drove huge trucks were contractors that had no other choice for carrying their tools and materials. Of course, some of the consequences of that was stagflation and high unemployment.

Oh, and Ford Pintos also...


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> I think a big part of the popularity of super-sized vehicles is a side effect of low interest rates and ongoing stimulus payments combined with (relatively) affordable gas prices.
> Back in the 13% inflation early 80's, a four year auto loan was 18%. I guarantee you, NO ONE drove a vehicle any bigger than necessary.


Agreed. The interest on my first car was 8.1% and that added about 6,000 to a 18,000 vehicle purchase over the term of the car loan. That was painful. It made me save and pay mostly cash for my cars (I buy used) since then. Although many people have told me in the past 5 years, that paying cash for vehicles is kinda dumb given the ridiculous near-zero interest rates these days, and that you could invest the cash and make significantly better on the return. But I cannot break the habit after being burned for 6-large for little reason when I was in my early 20s.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

because the pickups have those 2 foot long rear view mirrors now. they look like little airplanes. you look at one of those things and wonder how long it will take the guy to clip someone walking down the sidewalk in the back of the head.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

On a side note, a few days ago I decided to use some of my Uber credit, and ordered some over-priced food. The delivery guy came in a full sized P/U truck. I was like WTH? I bet it cost him more money to deliver the food than he made (I did tip him $5.00) given that the truck was so old that it looked like it gets about 12 MPG.


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## Sal29 (Jul 27, 2014)

Sky high gas prices will eventually financially ruin these men trying to compensate for their shortcomings by driving lifted trucks.
They'll be forced to buy a small fuel efficient car like they were after the 2008 financial crash and sky high gas prices.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Sal29 said:


> Sky high gas prices will eventually financially ruin these men trying to compensate for their shortcomings by driving lifted trucks.
> They'll be forced to buy a small fuel efficient car like they were after the 2008 financial crash and sky high gas prices.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

This dummy probably owns a "brodozer". Hopefully Southwest Airlines has let him go.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)




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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Fusion_LUser said:


> View attachment 581607


Just run him out of gas


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

TXUbering said:


> This dummy probably owns a "brodozer". Hopefully Southwest Airlines has let him go.


Couldn't care less what he drives, but you do understand that the pilot belongs to a union and that union will fight for the pilot not to be let go or even promoted. It's what those almighty unions do, ya know... :whistling:


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

I have only ever owned compact cars.


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