# The ethical failure of Uber recruitment.



## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.

What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).

The standard mileage rate in 2016 for the use of a personal vehicle is 54 cents a mile driven. This number takes into consideration all the costs associated with owning a car, including insurance, fuel and repairs. So in effect your $547 in earning actually netted you $7.00 in actual earnings. Further try skimping on the maintenance, or repairs and see your actual costs exceed these numbers. In effect, those same desperate, unemployed Uber drivers are pimping out their one remaining asset for a perceived gain. This analysis does not take into consideration moving violations, accidents, increased insurance costs, unseen cement barriers in poorly lit apartment complexes, etc. "Feel free to add your own additional cost factors in the comments."

Both major parties are now owned by the corporations. Democracy is dead and it is just a matter of time that unless this truth is exposed most Uber drivers will be residing in their vehicles in order to scratch out some type of meager existence while the Masters of the Universe in San Francisco bath in an ocean of our money.










What they should actually advertise is "Start Depreciating Your Car Today"


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.

Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.

The average commute for people aged 20-54 is 18,000 a year. (*source*) That doesn't include personal miles driven on weekends. Based on my average driving, I'll put in 26,000 miles this year. That's not that big of a difference.

I would have a car even without uber and I would have insurance without Uber. Those expenses are already covered by my regular job.

To say that everyone will spend all of their allotted $0.54 a mile on maintenance is just pure pessimism.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.
> 
> Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.
> 
> ...


"And I always thought I was more of a realest. But write on brother I wish we all could afford a luxury vehicle however if we could we'd all be chasing the same fares like UberX. Perhaps I did not make myself clear as the post was not meant for the a seasoned professional like yourself, but the beginner, rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising.

As far as the milage rate... I've had a fleet of cars throughout my years and if the federal government tells me this is the depreciation rate I'm going to take it as they are rarely generous when it comes to tax time. Note: this rate is adjusted yearly as fuel prices fluctuate.

Peace!"


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

A deduction is not equal to an expense. $0.54/mile is average of any car in any city or state across the country for any driver. Average. My insurance, registration, excise tax, fuel, etc don't line up with what others pay outside MA. I've tracked every penny of expense including depreciation for over 18 months and come in at $0.33/mile currently. And that is driving a gas-hungry minivan with high depreciation as it is a 2015.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> A deduction is not equal to an expense. $0.54/mile is average of any car in any city or state across the country for any driver. Average. My insurance, registration, excise tax, fuel, etc don't line up with what others pay outside MA. I've tracked every penny of expense including depreciation for over 18 months and come in at $0.33/mile currently. And that is driving a gas-hungry minivan with high depreciation as it is a 2015.


Fair enough. On your taxes you feel free to deduct .33 a mile against earnings, I'll stick with the federal rate of .54.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm confused, you seem to write intelligently, have basic math skills, but lack critical thinking skills.

I claim the $0.54/mile on my taxes. That's the allowed deduction. However, it is NOT representative of my EXPENSES. Because the IRS can't tell you what your expenses are. Nobody can but you. And you can only get an accurate picture of your expenses by keeping accurate records. Using the IRS deduction to state ALL drivers are LOSING $0.54/mile is false and shows a clear misunderstanding of accounting.

Our income is categorized in three ways: 

Gross Revenue. This is the amount you receive in deposits. 
Net Revenue. This is the amount of gross revenue you profit after paying for all expenses.
Taxable Revenue. This is the amount you can be taxed on and if you're keeping good records and have a smart person doing your taxes this figure will be MUCH MUCH lower than your actual profit.
The IRS allows us to deduct $0.54/mile but my expenses are only $0.33/mile. This means I'm earning $0.21/mile tax free PROFIT. Mileage deduction alone is getting me over $5,000 in profit this year tax-free. So to reiterate: Tax deductions are not expenses. They're quite the opposite. They are the reason I earn more now but pay less in taxes than before.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics.


This was my favorite part. As a full timer I'm on target to GROSS $60,000 this year and out of that NET $45,000. My vehicle cost $20,000 and only has 45k miles on it. Figure it is good for at least another 2 years before major repair (warranty covers until 100k). Assuming revenue stays the same, that's $180,000 GROSS and $135,000 NET for 3 years. Assuming I get nothing for the car at end of its life, that means I lost $20k investment to earn $135,000. I could buy 6 new cars and break even. So tell us again how the vehicles are depreciating faster than we can earn.....


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Your numbers are way off. I did a little NADA research the other day. All things being equal, a six year old car with 60,000 miles was worth about $3,000 less than one with 120,000 miles on it. This will vary a little up and down, but not much. So say I have a car with 60,000 miles on it and drive 50,00o miles in the next couple of years it will depreciate the value of the car about $3-4000, yet I will make $40-50,000 in that 2 years. Not a bad trade off. The reality is if you buy the right car for ubering then depreciation doesn't matter a whole lot. It does some, yes, but not as much as most think.

So lets use your number of about $550 a week which is obtainable just doing this part time. That is 2,200 a month and about 24k per year. Two years that is 48k and you would drive somewhere between 50-60000 miles to do that in 2 years. That would depreciate your car at tops 4k. See the car is going to depreciate anyway, so might as well use it to bang out some cash. Cars today are highly under utilized and wear out more because of the years in the elements than actually driving it, as long as you keep up with the important maintenance.



UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.
> 
> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).
> 
> ...


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> This was my favorite part. As a full timer I'm on target to GROSS $60,000 this year and out of that NET $45,000. My vehicle cost $20,000 and only has 45k miles on it. Figure it is good for at least another 2 years before major repair (warranty covers until 100k). Assuming revenue stays the same, that's $180,000 GROSS and $135,000 NET for 3 years. Assuming I get nothing for the car at end of its life, that means I lost $20k investment to earn $135,000. I could buy 6 new cars and break even. So tell us again how the vehicles are depreciating faster than we can earn.....


Write on.... feel free to fill in the blanks on how it is that you are averaging $1250 a week. Let's keep in mind that my experiences are Atlanta based, UberX and with limited experience on the road. If I was an accountant type I'd be sitting in a clients conference room combing through bankers boxes finding ways for them to avoid paying federal income taxes and getting mad perks along the way, but I'm not. I'm lazy about that and do not want to fill all available nooks and crannies of my vehicle with receipts. There are times I am rushing to fill up so that I can enjoy the euphoria of another incoming ping like some crack addict hitting that pipe. Maybe that will change, but I believe most Uber drivers are like me and want to leave all this behind them when they go off line.

So I want to keep it simple, and ATL. I'm not moving to Boston, I hate the weather there and your baseball team (lol, not really). Break it down for me por favor. I learned about Uber in DC while traveling there and constantly heard the same from drivers there $1,400 a week, but Uber advertising here states you can earn in the $500 a week area. Maybe are rates are too low. I did 70-90 pickups the past two weeks and the numbers are more in line with $500 a week for way too much time on the road. I was tired after a busy morning with no down time between pings averaging just over $10/hour gross and I decided to go back on line around Emory University. It was an Uber pool and I hesitated a moment but hit that pipe one more time. Result: two students pickups, thirty minutes of total travel time to deposit them at separate coffee houses and a combined fee of just over $5.00 so,

1. How many hours are you working a week?
2. How many pick ups are you making in that time span?
3. Are you working continuous hours or are you forced to break your day up into several different time slots?
4. Does your present activity allow you to enjoy any semblance of a family life or is your ass bolted to the seat of your vehicle? 
5. While working as a contractor for the CIA, I netted $500 a day seven days a week. That's $182,500 a year for a six hour shift. We had cooks, laundry service and alcohol, but I was still away from my family, and in the end my best day there was not as good as my worst one here.

How am I doing?


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

btw, this post started with the premise that the Uber organization is not ethically representing the reality of the Uber opportunity. Specifically that most people that drive for Uber part time, or use their personal vehicle are essentially pimping it out for some fast cash without an appreciation of the long term effects on their vehicle's long term performance.

I had this epiphany while hammering out 1,659 miles my first week working the 2300-1000 shift which consisted largely of strippers, prostitutes, booty calls and then your worker bees heading into the city...

"Using your personal vehicle between jobs, underemployed, or downsized is like a Jockey taking his thoroughbred race horse and between races hitching her up and plowing a field."

Is anyone going to do that? Seriously...







expect that horse to perform at that next race?


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> Write on.... feel free to fill in the blanks on how it is that you are averaging $1250 a week. Let's keep in mind that my experiences are Atlanta based, UberX and with limited experience on the road. If I was an accountant type I'd be sitting in a clients conference room combing through bankers boxes finding ways for them to avoid paying federal income taxes and getting mad perks along the way, but I'm not. I'm lazy about that and do not want to fill all available nooks and crannies of my vehicle with receipts. There are times I am rushing to fill up so that I can enjoy the euphoria of another incoming ping like some crack addict hitting that pipe. Maybe that will change, but I believe most Uber drivers are like me and want to leave all this behind them when they go off line.
> 
> So I want to keep it simple, and ATL. I'm not moving to Boston, I hate the weather there and your baseball team (lol, not really). Break it down for me por favor. I learned about Uber in DC while traveling there and constantly heard the same from drivers there $1,400 a week, but Uber advertising here states you can earn in the $500 a week area. Maybe are rates are too low. I did 70-90 pickups the past two weeks and the numbers are more in line with $500 a week for way too much time on the road. I was tired after a busy morning with no down time between pings averaging just over $10/hour gross and I decided to go back on line around Emory University. It was an Uber pool and I hesitated a moment but hit that pipe one more time. Result: two students pickups, thirty minutes of total travel time to deposit them at separate coffee houses and a combined fee of just over $5.00 so,
> 
> ...


First mistake is driving with uber. I drove them first but when I added Lyft I could see my per-ride AND hourly averages were higher so I focused on Lyft. Then come February Uber screwed up my 1099 and refused to look into it so I told them to deactivate me. Best choice ever. I hit the 20% PDB for Lyft each week, so I pay nothing in commission almost every week. Lyft allows tipping in app which for me averages 7-10% of gross each week.

If you "don't want to be an accountant" and keep records which then results in you donating money to the IRS and having no actual clue what your expenses are then stop driving and don't go to online forums making blanket statements that all drivers are losing money.

BOS rates vs ATL rates, you're about 40% lower. Which means if our markets average the same business level, you'll earn $30k ($37k minus uber 20%) where I earn $60k. Admittedly, that sounds bad. HOWEVER, don't ignore the fact that cost of living in ATL is 30-40% lower than BOS so your dollars go much farther. Your original statement was that at $500/week and 1000 miles/week no driver is making a profit. This proves that even at $500/week you're making a decent profit, not exchanging car value for cash in a net zero situation. Unless your car is worth $30k and is junked every year, you're earning a profit.

Since you don't want to keep records I also highly doubt you're putting 1000 business miles on the car in a week. I drive about 35 hours per week and put on only about 600 business related miles/week. Assuming a high-end average of 25mph, (I average less than 20mph) it would take you at least 40 hours to drive 1000 miles. Another anomaly in your statement is your claim of grossing $547 requiring 1000 miles on your car. You claimed to do 70-90 trips so let's call it 80. At the current ATL UberX rate that is $80 in Base Fare, assuming 50% miles are unpaid that is $375 in mileage and assuming 3 paid minutes per paid mile (my average) that is $180 in minutes for a total of $635. Pretty close to your guess, right? BUT - that is at BASE rates. No surge, no boost, no guarantees, no tips, etc. So clearly the only way to drive 1000 miles/week and gross $547 is if you're driving the absolute worst times/locations if you can't get even one surge ride.

Also, I'm not even a great example of the perfect driving setup in Boston. I live 20 miles from the city which means 99% of the time I have at least 40 miles of dead-heading to do. I choose to work 3 or 4 long shifts rather than bouncing back and forth to the city for the busier times so I'm there when it is slammed and I'm there when it is dead. As pointed out earlier my car is fairly new and gets 15-17mpg in city. There are a lot of ways I could improve my profit margin but I'm earning enough and this setup makes me happy. To answer your numbered questions: 

30-40 depending on how long my trips are, how busy it is. I drive until I hit my 75 rides for PDB, by then I've usually grossed over my minimum dollar goal of $1000/week.
75 rides a week, rarely more. I've had a few weeks this year where I couldn't drive as much or at all due to family obligations (vacation, wedding, honeymoon, holidays)
I typically drive 10-12 hours straight between noon and 3am as I don't want to commute back and forth to the city. I do this mostly Thursday, Friday, Saturday but if something comes up to interfere I'll drive Sunday or sometimes the weekdays to fill the gaps.
I do this because it works with family/social life. I was a single dad when I started it and before rideshare I'd have to use after-school care for my kids while I worked. If they had off from school have to request off, call out, or bring them with me. Now I'm remarried and my wife teaches so I'm home all day Sunday with her, Mon/Tue/Wed afternoon and nights with her, and she uses Thu/Fri/Sat afternoon/nights either for time with her friends or herself. Occasionally she has outside teaching work she'll do as well.
Don't think that was a question.....whatever floats your boat I guess?



UberNaToo said:


> btw, this post started with the premise that the Uber organization is not ethically representing the reality of the Uber opportunity. Specifically that most people that drive for Uber part time, or use their personal vehicle are essentially pimping it out for some fast cash without an appreciation of the long term effects on their vehicle's long term performance.
> 
> I had this epiphany while hammering out 1,659 miles my first week working the 2300-1000 shift which consisted largely of strippers, prostitutes, booty calls and then your worker bees heading into the city...
> 
> ...


Your vehicle has value, yes. That value will diminish with each use, yes. The main point of contention here is that it costs $0.54/mile to operate a car. It doesn't. I haven't seen ANYONE with a thorough analysis of their expenses showing anything approaching that high.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

$1250 a week would definitely be rough in Atlanta and would require far more than a standard 40 hour work week to accomplish. $1000 would be more managable, $800 would be more realistic. I only drove weekday afternoon once because of an hourly guarantee. I could see you doing $75 in any given afternoon. If you mix in some morning commutes, I could see doing $1250 if your work smart. Living IN the city would be a huge advantage.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

i love how a 'select' specialist, and a 'minivan' specialist have come on here to defend uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> i love how a 'select' specialist, and a 'minivan' specialist have come on here to defend uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...


Actually the main points I brought up were in regards to his claims that it costs $0.54/mile to operate a vehicle (it doesn't) and that a driver has to drive 1000 miles a week which is very unlikely even at the ATL UberX rates which are the rates I quoted when pointing to the flaws in his claims for earnings. But go on and keep trying to dismiss logical observations with invalid arguments.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Oh and Plus fares account for MAYBE 10% of my income.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

you are one of the rare successes at Uber 

most people with x are grossing 10-15/hr over anything near full time hours


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm not with uber but thanks. You ignored the point. I gave him figures based on his rates in his city for the number of rides he said he gives. And the IRS deduction vs actual expenses has nothing to do with being a good or bad driver. It is a flawed argument because tax deductions just aren't expenses.


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

Uber advertises fair fare but no fair wages.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

ok, "i love how a 'select' specialist, and a a guy who doesn't even drive Uber (Boston Barry) come on here to defend Uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

just because I don't currently drive uber doesn't mean I never have. And just because I don't drive uber it doesn't mean that I can't poke holes in a false statement that has nothing to do with uber itself. and just because I poke holes in that statement doesn't mean I agree with Uber practices. It just means I can't stomach the sight of idiocy on the internet. But then you probably already know that.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> First mistake is driving with uber. I drove them first but when I added Lyft I could see my per-ride AND hourly averages were higher so I focused on Lyft. Then come February Uber screwed up my 1099 and refused to look into it so I told them to deactivate me. Best choice ever. I hit the 20% PDB for Lyft each week, so I pay nothing in commission almost every week. Lyft allows tipping in app which for me averages 7-10% of gross each week.
> 
> If you "don't want to be an accountant" and keep records which then results in you donating money to the IRS and having no actual clue what your expenses are then stop driving and don't go to online forums making blanket statements that all drivers are losing money.
> 
> ...


blah, blah, blah.. dude it's guys like you that drove me out of the corporate world. You just cant wrap yourself around what I am saying. I don't care if your copious experience, business acumen allows you to scratch out a living doing this because that was not my point. My point is the organization (perhaps organiz







ations) have tapped into some elaborate like ponzi scheme to fleece people, some of the communities most vulnerable while making billions and billions.

As far as milage I have a truck, car, Harley and an uber lease. I know what I'm talking about and the .54 is realistic, especially, again because a inexperienced driver is going to have a higher percentage of accidents.

Let's try this. "The sky is Blue." you're turn.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> ok, "i love how a 'select' specialist, and a a guy who doesn't even drive Uber (Boston Barry) come on here to defend Uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...


Corporate Shill!


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

This thread delivers thus far, reality vs "I'm telling you".


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.
> 
> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).
> 
> ...


And around the carousel we go, once more.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> blah, blah, blah.. dude it's guys like you that drove me out of the corporate world. You just cant wrap yourself around what I am saying. I don't care if your copious experience, business acumen allows you to scratch out a living doing this because that was not my point. My point is the organization (perhaps organiz
> View attachment 82018
> ations) have tapped into some elaborate like ponzi scheme to fleece people, some of the communities most vulnerable while making billions and billions.
> 
> ...


That may be the title of the thread and we can both agree there are ways any rideshare takes advantage of people. BUT your statements and the figures you've presented in support of the title are wrong so you will be called out. Period.

Let's try this: I'll post a thread titled "The sky is blue" and then go on in my post to point out it is blue because light from Pluto hits the methane gas from cockroach farts creating the optical illusion of blueness but really the sky is brown.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> That may be the title of the thread and we can both agree there are ways any rideshare takes advantage of people. BUT your statements and the figures you've presented in support of the title are wrong so you will be called out. Period.
> 
> Let's try this: I'll post a thread titled "The sky is blue" and then go on in my post to point out it is blue because light from Pluto hits the methane gas from cockroach farts creating the optical illusion of blueness but really the sky is brown.


I suspect since it's coming from you, you'd expect everyone to believe it too. Rock on man, when your in my a.o. you can tell me how it is in my a.o.

Boom!


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

In jacksonville florida, uber x rate is $.75/mile, minus 25 percent =57.5cents per mile. 1000 miles =$575. These are paid miles, dead miles are not included.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> I suspect since it's coming from you, you'd expect everyone to believe it too. Rock on man, when your in my a.o. you can tell me how it is in my a.o.
> 
> Boom!


I never told you how it is in ATL. YOU told ME. I took your ride numbers that you provided and did the math. Sorry that 1+1=3.1386437 for you but for the rest of us it is just simple old 2!


jonhjax said:


> In jacksonville florida, uber x rate is $.75/mile, minus 25 percent =57.5cents per mile. 1000 miles =$575. These are paid miles, dead miles are not included.


And then add minutes, base, surge, promotions, etc. You can't calculate your profit on miles alone. That's like a grocer saying they only made $100 today because that's what they sold in oranges. What about the apples?!

Sweet baby jeebus. Nobody hates uber more than I do guys but making up things to be angry about and supporting it with false statements/poor research/guesstimates is counter-productive and distracts from the real issues with uber. Focus!


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I never told you how it is in ATL. YOU told ME. I took your ride numbers that you provided and did the math. Sorry that 1+1=3.1386437 for you but for the rest of us it is just simple old 2!
> 
> And then add minutes, base, surge, promotions, etc. You can't calculate your profit on miles alone. That's like a grocer saying they only made $100 today because that's what they sold in oranges. What about the apples?!
> 
> ...


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm not angry.wait time is . $18/minute, I believe. Minimum fare is $3.19. Surge is now very short, often less than two hours, normally less than four hours in a day, frequently about two hours a day. Yep, thousands to be made. Base fare here IS a pretty good indicator of what a driver makes,unfortunately so.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

jonhjax said:


> I'm not angry.wait time is . $18/minute, I believe. Minimum fare is $3.19. Surge is now very short, often less than two hours, normally less than four hours in a day, frequently about two hours a day. Yep, thousands to be made.


Write on so you won't mind giving us a sreen shot of your earnings!

I'll sit here and wait. (Theme song from Jeopardy)


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

I don't drive for uber. I won't drive for anyone for the amount uber pays its drivers in jacksonville. I have been recruited to drive for uber and refused when I learned what uber pays. Also to be legal in jacksonville you need a business tax certificate, commercial livery insurance, city inspection, city/state background check and a medallion that identifies you as a legal vehicle for hire. Too many expenses for that little pay


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> And then add minutes, base, surge, promotions, etc. You can't calculate your profit on miles alone. That's like a grocer saying they only made $100 today because that's what they sold in oranges. What about the apples?!


*
oh come on*

that's a really sad attempt at an argument.

knowing as much as you know about per/min rates and base rates, surge prevalence and promotions, you think that this guy, who is grossing 575/1000 on the per/mileage, is grossing significantly more total??

total strike against any credibility you attempted to argue for with me.

What you sound like is someone with a strong 'confirmation bias' who is on here defending something that they personally have committed to.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> Actually the main points I brought up were in regards to his claims that it costs $0.54/mile to operate a vehicle (it doesn't) and that a driver has to drive 1000 miles a week which is very unlikely even at the ATL UberX rates which are the rates I quoted when pointing to the flaws in his claims for earnings. But go on and keep trying to dismiss logical observations with invalid arguments.





simpsonsverytall said:


> ok, "i love how a 'select' specialist, and a a guy who doesn't even drive Uber (Boston Barry) come on here to defend Uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...


And my main point was actually similar to BostonBarry's point of tax deductions. Even with depreciation, the miles I put in for Uber isnt extravagant. It's not like I'm putting 4-5 times more miles on my vehicle then the average commuter. Without even accounting for personal miles driven, I'm only driving 30% more than they are. Many of my miles will be tax deductible unlike theirs.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> *oh come on*
> 
> that's a really sad attempt at an argument.
> 
> ...


Actually, if you had paid attention to my reply which broke down the earnings according to BASE rates in ATL and the ride count and miles he was claiming, I showed exactly what the breakdown would look like based on averages reported on this forum and many others (50% dead miles and 3-4 minutes paid per each paid mile). I did it this way to give a WORST case picture of no surge, no promos, low rates, and high dead miles. My reality is much much better but there are certain things which will apply to the overwhelming majority of drivers like the 3-4 paid minute average speed per paid mile. This was that breakdown: 


BostonBarry said:


> Another anomaly in your statement is your claim of grossing $547 requiring 1000 miles on your car. You claimed to do 70-90 trips so let's call it 80. At the current ATL UberX rate that is $80 in Base Fare, assuming 50% miles are unpaid that is $375 in mileage and assuming 3 paid minutes per paid mile (my average) that is $180 in minutes for a total of $635.


As you can see, out of $635 minutes account for 28% of gross pay and base fee is 12.5% so those two items combined account for roughly 40% of driver pay. So yeah, they are an important metric to track. You can easily see that dropping minute rates usually means a more significant drop in pay than dropping mile rates. Because for each trip we get paid several minutes for each mile. Drop miles $0.10 and your pay will only drop a little. Drop minutes $0.10 and your pay will drop 3-4 times as much. Again, this is all without promos, tips, and surge. To reiterate my stance on the original post:

I AGREE- base rates should be higher.
I AGREE- it can be tough to earn good money in this work.
I AGREE- Uber is a company lacking any moral compass and uses marketing tricks/verbiage to oversell their platform.

I DISAGREE that it costs $0.54/mile to run ANY rideshare vehicle.
I DISAGREE that drivers are driving at a loss/trading car value for cash.


----------



## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

barry, you are debating minutiae.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

jonhjax said:


> I don't drive for uber. I won't drive for anyone for the amount uber pays its drivers in jacksonville. I have been recruited to drive for uber and refused when I learned what uber pays. Also to be legal in jacksonville you need a business tax certificate, commercial livery insurance, city inspection, city/state background check and a medallion that identifies you as a legal vehicle for hire. Too many expenses for that little pay


For once bu·reauc·ra·cy works in your favor.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> Actually, if you had paid attention to my reply which broke down the earnings according to BASE rates in ATL and the ride count and miles he was claiming, I showed exactly what the breakdown would look like based on averages reported on this forum and many others (50% dead miles and 3-4 minutes paid per each paid mile). I did it this way to give a WORST case picture of no surge, no promos, low rates, and high dead miles. My reality is much much better but there are certain things which will apply to the overwhelming majority of drivers like the 3-4 paid minute average speed per paid mile. This was that breakdown:
> 
> As you can see, out of $635 minutes account for 28% of gross pay and base fee is 12.5% so those two items combined account for roughly 40% of driver pay. So yeah, they are an important metric to track. You can easily see that dropping minute rates usually means a more significant drop in pay than dropping mile rates. Because for each trip we get paid several minutes for each mile. Drop miles $0.10 and your pay will only drop a little. Drop minutes $0.10 and your pay will drop 3-4 times as much. Again, this is all without promos, tips, and surge. To reiterate my stance on the original post:
> 
> ...


Dude, why would I just make shit up like this? I didn't short the stock,its real and I've talked to drivers in the quo at the airport. I'm not trying to shot on anyone's party but a bunch of greedy billionaires. Do you think they tip, or take Uber pool?


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> barry, you are debating minutiae.


40% is "minutiae"....ok!



UberNaToo said:


> Dude, why would I just make shit up like this? I didn't short the stock,its real and I've talked to drivers in the quo at the airport. I'm not trying to shot on anyone's party but a bunch of greedy billionaires. Do you think they tip, or take Uber pool?
> View attachment 82117
> View attachment 82117


Mathematical truth isn't made invalid just because a group of people don't know how to do the math or don't understand deductions/expenses/accounting. You made a statement, your statement is false. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

UBER IS CRAPPY JOB FOR MOST PEOPLE
A FEW PEOPLE CAN MAKE IT WORK AS A PERSONAL SUCCESS
THE ADVERTISEMENT/RECRUITMENT CAMPAIGN IS BORDERLINE UNETHICAL 


everything else is minutiae. 

i don't care if ubernatoo did a lousy job of making his point, and that you were ably to swoop in and point out some error in his argument.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> UBER IS CRAPPY JOB FOR MOST PEOPLE
> A FEW PEOPLE CAN MAKE IT WORK AS A PERSONAL SUCCESS
> THE ADVERTISEMENT/RECRUITMENT CAMPAIGN IS BORDERLINE UNETHICAL
> 
> ...


That is an entirely accurate statement that I can agree with wholeheartedly. If you had said that earlier you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> But go on and keep trying to dismiss logical observations with invalid arguments.


I'd like to get in on some of that too


BostonBarry said:


> just because I don't currently drive uber doesn't mean I never have. And just because I don't drive uber it doesn't mean that I can't poke holes in a false statement that has nothing to do with uber itself. and just because I poke holes in that statement doesn't mean I agree with Uber practices. It just means I can't stomach the sight of idiocy on the internet. But then you probably already know that.


This dude's good at arguing. Gotta give him that


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

Hey, seriously.... I'm not trying to shit on anyone's parade. We are the ground troops the people that go out And make rich people insanely rich but I like to tell it like it is....

I've been to Iraq, Afghan and seen enough shit to not care who I might offend if my interest is pure. It's not right what this organization is doing to people. They are pimping us all out and making billions while 100% of the down side is on our shoulders. That's bullshit and it's bullshit to think they think there just going to IPO like they are the business model to beat hell. Nope.. things have to change and if not we'll shame them until they bleed.



"I had the most absurd nightmare. I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me and it was all because of this


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> That may be the title of the thread and we can both agree there are ways any rideshare takes advantage of people. BUT your statements and the figures you've presented in support of the title are wrong so you will be called out. Period.
> 
> Let's try this: I'll post a thread titled "The sky is blue" and then go on in my post to point out it is blue because light from Pluto hits the methane gas from cockroach farts creating the optical illusion of blueness but really the sky is brown.


Who told you about the insect methane ?
Actually,termites release more than Roach's.
And now,the secret is revealed. Termites plot your destruction !
( this was supposed to be classified)


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

And then there's this.
Govt. Subsidized G.M.O. bio fuel corn fertilizer.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> They are pimping us all out and making billions while 100% of the down side is on our shoulders.


You know what the most pitiful thing of all is? Yes, we're all being played and pimped and everyone, including our pax and ourselves know it. But they're not making billions. They're still burning through money like crazy. Our pimp is stupid.


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## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

Uber recruitment to lighten the subject


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day".
> 
> Both major parties are now owned by the corporations. Democracy is dead and it is just a matter of time that unless this truth is exposed most Uber drivers will be residing in their vehicles in order to scratch out some type of meager existence while the Masters of the Universe in San Francisco bath in an ocean of our money.
> 
> What they should actually advertise is "Start Depreciating Your Car Today"


Uber will suffer in the long run if they continue to treat their contractor "partners" as if they were clueless rubes (arguably, some are).

Let the free market and the "invisible hand" do their work.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> Write on.... feel free to fill in the blanks on how it is that you are averaging $1250 a week. Let's keep in mind that my experiences are Atlanta based, UberX and with limited experience on the road. If I was an accountant type I'd be sitting in a clients conference room combing through bankers boxes finding ways for them to avoid paying federal income taxes and getting mad perks along the way, but I'm not. I'm lazy about that and do not want to fill all available nooks and crannies of my vehicle with receipts. There are times I am rushing to fill up so that I can enjoy the euphoria of another incoming ping like some crack addict hitting that pipe. Maybe that will change, but I believe most Uber drivers are like me and want to leave all this behind them when they go off line.
> 
> So I want to keep it simple, and ATL. I'm not moving to Boston, I hate the weather there and your baseball team (lol, not really). Break it down for me por favor. I learned about Uber in DC while traveling there and constantly heard the same from drivers there $1,400 a week, but Uber advertising here states you can earn in the $500 a week area. Maybe are rates are too low. I did 70-90 pickups the past two weeks and the numbers are more in line with $500 a week for way too much time on the road. I was tired after a busy morning with no down time between pings averaging just over $10/hour gross and I decided to go back on line around Emory University. It was an Uber pool and I hesitated a moment but hit that pipe one more time. Result: two students pickups, thirty minutes of total travel time to deposit them at separate coffee houses and a combined fee of just over $5.00 so,
> 
> ...


See Uber People as a mini college for TNC contractors. Invest 100 hours reading past posts from the veterens telling you how they make $40,000 + annually. Read the new posts daily. See this place as a sort of hub were drivers gather after a day out on the road, and tell their stories.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

BostonBarry said:


> That is an entirely accurate statement that I can agree with wholeheartedly. If you had said that earlier you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble.


I would add a few people can make it a personal success IN THE RIGHT MARKET.

Which is why someone in Boston should stop thinking their success is all because of their hard work and business acumen. Mostly it's the rates, surge (or lack thereof) and incentives (or lack thereof). The last varies even within markets.

Being smart about how you work will make you more money. But if it's the difference between $6 an hour and $8 (a 33% increase!) does that help much?

Or as they say: "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit."

Or to put it another way, BostonBarry is just trying to put lipstick on that pig.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Falsers Falsers everywhere.
OP is a fellow Truther.
Truth on.
To all the Falsers, False off.
Or if you prefer, Go False Yourselves.


----------



## run26912 (Sep 23, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> This was my favorite part. As a full timer I'm on target to GROSS $60,000 this year and out of that NET $45,000. My vehicle cost $20,000 and only has 45k miles on it. Figure it is good for at least another 2 years before major repair (warranty covers until 100k). Assuming revenue stays the same, that's $180,000 GROSS and $135,000 NET for 3 years. Assuming I get nothing for the car at end of its life, that means I lost $20k investment to earn $135,000. I could buy 6 new cars and break even. So tell us again how the vehicles are depreciating faster than we can earn.....


Things you don't/can't factor in that will have a MATERIAL IMPACT on Uber partners/slaves:

1) Uber's future rate cuts (can't assume Uber will keep rates the same moving forward when historically they have dropped yearly), not to mention they are not so subtle-ly dropping their subsidies IE: metals program out the window and boost amounts dropping weekly.
2) Saturation of drivers = longer wait times for pings (major earnings killer here, simply too many drivers, more down time, less hourly, longer trolling, more gas expense, more traffic, more DEAD miles/travel time)
3) Rising fuel costs (with the numbnuts at OPEC finally agreeing on cutting production WTI crude will continue to rise) <-- As I'm sure you know, you can't write off fuel costs when you take the mileage deduction. This goes straight to your bottom line.
4) Uber demand = Reality is if the demand for Uber tails off due to competition, crappy experiences or other alternatives, that will be a nightmare for all. Overcapacity and shrinking demand.

Of course to increase demand, go back to #1 (rate cuts). Rinse and repeat... straight into the toilet.

Those are just 4 REALITY costs off the top of my head. You may be the exception to the rule, but for the majority uberx drivers, they are feeling the pinch, especially when there are 7 uberx drivers around ever corner. Also, I know in D.C. traffic has gotten MUCH worse due to all the Uber/Lyft drivers clogging the roads. It can easily take 30 minutes to travel 2 miles on K street in rush hour now, and getting worse daily. I'd say 30% of the cars on the road now are rideshare drivers. You can tell from the phone mounts and the desperate looks on their faces.

BONG!!!!


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Hang on. You mean to tell me that 1980 Bonneville crack was supposed to be an insult?










So confused! What side am I on?

Is this twitter or not?


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## Truman (Nov 27, 2016)

Any fare taken without, surge,boost, or incentive is likely a loser. Drive selectively or be exploited.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

People just don't get it. Keep driving! Lol


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

We are all slaves unless u politian or CEO. U go to college u biggest chump of all as u learning to work under someonr and to learn the system that does not give a shit about u. U sick or u have to go to a funnanral. Oh well u not good enough u fired i got another boseoe. U in middle of troubleshooting someones breoadband and gotta tell person u gotta go to bathroom they say "no i dont want u pooping in my bathroom " u gotta hold ur poop in cuz some guy steps in ur way and waves money u r a slave. We all slaves i dont think there r any CEOs or politians in here


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> Today's clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money.


One of the best quotes I've heard since Dean Wormer told Blutarski in the movie Animal House "Fat and stupid is no way to go through life." 
That word clueless is so underused when it pertains to TNC drivers. I've lost count on the hundreds of post in this forum that contain the phrases "I didn't know that, Uber didn't tell me that, why is it illegal?, why did my insurance drop me? or I didn't know I had to pay taxes". 
I am still bewildered how easy it is for Uber to obtain new drivers. Is this country really that ignorant? 
That one famous quote is alive and well. "Uber has a $40 billion fleet without owning a single vehicle."


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> One of the best quotes I've heard since Dean Wormer told Blutarski in the movie Animal House "Fat and stupid is no way to go through life."
> That word clueless is so underused when it pertains to TNC drivers. I've lost count on the hundreds of post in this forum that contain the phrases "I didn't know that, Uber didn't tell me that, why is it illegal?, why did my insurance drop me? or I didn't know I had to pay taxes".
> I am still bewildered how easy it is for Uber to obtain new drivers. Is this country really that ignorant?
> That one famous quote is alive and well. "Uber has a $40 billion fleet without owning a single vehicle."


Uber is a buisness. Noone looks between the lines. Its like wow pay is going up hourly yea but now with less hours so u makeing same amount in less time. More time for u to blow money. Its most competive time for work ever. More and more older people looseing jobs carear changes and illegals getting in its getting very hard to fill find places for these people. Uber comes then xchange program happens and people get more freedom more then ever. There r people who have no idea on how uber actually works its not just picking people up. Its alot of analytics. U can make money and do good if u know what u doing. Its like the "selling candy bar age" U need money sign at school and go door to door. Not no more regulations after regulations. I did lease program and avarged $1000 a week for 40 hours. Did every ride that was nearby me. Went short and long distance. Worked late night into the morning. No traffic so easier to flget places. Worked in areas where crimes werent to bad. People dont do research they figure money will fall in their lap. I heard alot of horror stories about lease program but ive worked out very well in time i was doing uber. Also maybe its cuz im in boston area and ubers best for drivers has been in boston. As some cities slow down dureing summer boston doesnt


----------



## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

run26912 said:


> 2) Saturation of drivers = longer wait times for pings (major earnings killer here, simply too many drivers, more down time, less hourly, longer trolling, more gas expense, more traffic, more DEAD miles/travel time)


No one who is a serious TNC contractor will be beholden to Uber (in markets where competition exists, of course). We are free to drive for other companies (hauling anything/body that's legal).


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Jermin8r89 said:


> Uber is a buisness. Noone looks between the lines. U can make money and do good if u know what u doing. Its like the "selling candy bar age"


Drug dealing is a business too, but most dealers don't weigh the consequences as long as they're making money.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Drug dealing is a business too, but most dealers don't weigh the consequences as long as they're making money.


. . . And the smart ones have already accepted the worst-case scenario!


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

circle1 said:


> . . . And the smart ones have already accepted the worst-case scenario!


Perfectly stated!!!


----------



## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.


How about a bowl of chicken shit salad? Did you consider that?


----------



## UberSolo (Jul 21, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> "And I always thought I was more of a realest. But write on brother I wish we all could afford a luxury vehicle however if we could we'd all be chasing the same fares like UberX. Perhaps I did not make myself clear as the post was not meant for the a seasoned professional like yourself, but the beginner, rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising.
> 
> As far as the milage rate... I've had a fleet of cars throughout my years and if the federal government tells me this is the depreciation rate I'm going to take it as they are rarely generous when it comes to tax time. Note: this rate is adjusted yearly as fuel prices fluctuate.
> 
> Peace!"


"rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising". Dude Seriously?

No one's being "enticed". what they are being is overly critical of a current personal situation causing a loss of confidence, foresight and self worth.
Under Employed Depression causes Sloth and doubt. Uber is like a "Time Out" from a real job. A "stupid semi-vacation". you forget 24 hours after ceasing operations. Thx the Lord!

I decided I Did Not Enjoy Strangers In My nice clean Car. Period. That was my motivator. What's yours?








BTW, after ceasing uber operations I bought really nice new interior custom fit carpeted mats front and back. They still smell new.
I had a private ceremony Burning the Uber car signage in my kitchen sink. Washed Away The Whole Episode from my life.

No Excuses Folks, just do it!


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

I tried explaining to someone that truthfully Uber, and Lyft does not factor in cost of fuel, car washes, and accelerated maintenance costs that you will be paying with your earnings. It sounds great in the commercial, and if your car is accepted by either company it may make you feel good to know it is up to par. I was amazed that when I worked really hard and drove my but off, my oil change went from 4 months to 1 month. I was filing my tank at least every two days, and although washing my car myself saved me about $7.00 per wash, I had to wash the car at least 2 to 3 x a week. A 10 hour day behind the wheel earned me $120 max gross. This includes all the time sitting waiting for a ping, not actual fare time.

When I have told people that I drive for Uber I usually hear some outrageous story that their friend told them who also drives for Uber, and how their friend makes 2k to 4 k a month driving for Uber. Please stop lying about how much you make to impress other people and tell people the truth. If you're making $1,000 a week please remeber to mention it also includes any kickbacks you're getting from pimps or drug dealers on top of your Uber pay.


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## Lets_Eat (Oct 11, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> Hang on. You mean to tell me that 1980 Bonneville crack was supposed to be an insult?
> 
> View attachment 82347
> 
> ...


You should post under the topic, "daily stupid" on the Los Angeles forums. try not to derail or distract from a productive topic or conversation please.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Tedgey said:


> How about a bowl of chicken shit salad? Did you consider that?


Still tastes like chicken.


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Still tastes like chicken.


But it will turn to shit when passing through - the "Uber experience".


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## KingTravisHasNoClothes (Jun 11, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.
> 
> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).
> 
> ...


Pessimists ?, maybe. Raw to the bone ?, without a doubt and spot on.
In a previous post a few moons back I stated that it would not be stretch that in distant or not so distant future that business schools when discussing the subject of ethics may include uber (a technology company) as an example.
For those who are familiar with the Industrial Age , i. e. ( Rockefeller , Getty, Morgan ) and so.
Those gentlemen would more than likely give there nodd of approval to uber or would they issue a word of caution to
Mr Travis Kalanick. That taking advantage of people in a difficult situation , people who are not lazy, nor lacking scruples by asking them to come on board and be a "partner" with a simple and doable concept and make some serious $$ in your spare time. Only problem is the word "partner", if one was to read the definition of partner , then drive 90 days and read the definition again. Let's just say that confused and or a raw nerve might be sugar coating your emotions.
Mr Kalanick congratulations on your success and untold wealth. Enjoy , only be careful of someday that you could die old and alone.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Lets_Eat said:


> You should post under the topic, "daily stupid" on the Los Angeles forums. try not to derail or distract from a productive topic or conversation please.


I hope you had a great night last night driving your UberCar and because I know you'll be driving well into the afternoon as well I hope prosperity follows you throughout the day.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Tedgey said:


> Hang on. You mean to tell me that 1980 Bonneville crack was supposed to be an insult?
> 
> View attachment 82347
> 
> ...


With a 400 -4 Bbl.
Or a 2 tone Parisienne.


----------



## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

Boston

Base Fare: $2
Per Minute: $0.20
Per Mile: $1.24
Cancellation Fee: $5
Service Fees: $1.15
Minimum Fare: $6.15

Atlanta

Base Fare: $1
Per Minute: $0.12
Per Mile: $0.75
Cancellation Fee: $6
Service Fees: $1.75
Minimum Fare: $6.75

Where I am

Base Fare: $0.95
Per Minute: $0.13
Per Mile: $0.85
Cancellation Fee: $5
Service Fees: $1.70
Minimum Fare: $5

Even though our rate is higher than ATL, our population density is much lower. Last night I went from ping-to-ping-to-ping and made $49.71 in five clock hours, before expenses, plus $5 in tips (and one pax who didn't have any cash). That's $10.94 an hour, before expenses, including tips. I had one sh!thead burn 15 minutes on a long pickup, then wanted to stuff 5 people in an X ride. Cancel. Another gated community wouldn't answer their phone. 12 minutes, plus dead miles and then...cancel. And one customer no show. Just those three busted calls accounted for the better part of an hour. 

On average you should make more money in Boston. To make $575 a week over 40 hours in Atlanta you have to average $14.38/hour. I would project Atlanta UberX to average $10 to $15 an hour not counting long trips, surge pricing and (hopefully) a higher tip rate. Some days you'll beat the average, some days the distribution will pwn you. $575 is probably doable but it's going to be a long week, it won't be typical and that doesn't include Uber's cut, which drops that down to $431.25 or $10.78 an hour, not including tips. Once again my earning models are pretty dead on. Show me your rate card, I can project your take. 

We probably won't know the truth until someone gets Uber into court and subpoenas average driver earnings.


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## dolllarchaser (Oct 12, 2015)

FL_Dex said:


> ... //snip//... and that doesn't include Uber's cut, which drops that down to $431.25 or $10.78 an hour, not including tips. ... //snip//...


Wow! It took 72 posts to realize that the fares Uber advertises is BEFORE their cut!


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

Uber's ethical failure is far beyond its recruitment it is ethical failure on every level being a fraud illegal scam company


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

What I don't understand is yes uber is completely unethical even in a court of law but we run these streets why isn't travis beaten up and taken out


----------



## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

KingTravisHasNoClothes said:


> Pessimists ?, maybe. Raw to the bone ?, without a doubt and spot on.
> In a previous post a few moons back I stated that it would not be stretch that in distant or not so distant future that business schools when discussing the subject of ethics may include uber (a technology company) as an example.
> For those who are familiar with the Industrial Age , i. e. ( Rockefeller , Getty, Morgan ) and so.
> Those gentlemen would more than likely give there nodd of approval to uber or would they issue a word of caution to
> ...


write on, write on.... America is the new India!


----------



## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

UberSolo said:


> "rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising". Dude Seriously?
> 
> No one's being "enticed". what they are being is overly critical of a current personal situation causing a loss of confidence, foresight and self worth.
> Under Employed Depression causes Sloth and doubt. Uber is like a "Time Out" from a real job. A "stupid semi-vacation". you forget 24 hours after ceasing operations. Thx the Lord!
> ...


I'm familiar with this theme... "Next!"


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Tedgey said:


> How about a bowl of chicken shit salad? Did you consider that?


You can ALWAYS count on that smart alec Duck to have something useful to contribute...haha!!


----------



## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> You can always count on the smart alec Duck to have something useful to contribute...haha!!


Not sure if this is one of his:


----------



## CommiePuddin (Nov 17, 2016)

Fuber1 said:


> What I don't understand is yes uber is completely unethical even in a court of law but we run these streets why isn't travis beaten up and taken out


Because you don't have the courage of your convictions.


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## run26912 (Sep 23, 2015)

dolllarchaser said:


> Wow! It took 72 posts to realize that the fares Uber advertises is BEFORE their cut!


Apparently, it took YOU 72 posts to realize this.

BONG!!!


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.
> 
> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).
> 
> ...


The same old non-math. Unless you drove a car off the lot to your first ping, you aren't paying anywhere near $.54 a mile. That's a deduction, not an estimate. Mine was $.17 a mile in 2015 and $.20 in 2016.

1,000 miles a week? That would pay $1,500 or more in my market. I clear over $20 an hour ubering on average after all costs.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

run26912 said:


> As I'm sure you know, you can't write off fuel costs when you take the mileage deduction. This goes straight to your bottom line.


It's part of the mileage deduction.



SEAL Team 5 said:


> "Fat and stupid is no way to go through life."


Fat, _drunk_, and stupid...


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

jonhjax said:


> In jacksonville florida, uber x rate is $.75/mile, minus 25 percent =57.5cents per mile. 1000 miles =$575. These are paid miles, dead miles are not included.


It doesn't cost 99.9% of the drivers anywhere near $.54 a mile. I'm at $.20. You didn't consider tips, minute pay, guarantees, or surge.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I'm confused, you seem to write intelligently, have basic math skills, but lack critical thinking skills.
> 
> I claim the $0.54/mile on my taxes. That's the allowed deduction. However, it is NOT representative of my EXPENSES. Because the IRS can't tell you what your expenses are. Nobody can but you. And you can only get an accurate picture of your expenses by keeping accurate records. Using the IRS deduction to state ALL drivers are LOSING $0.54/mile is false and shows a clear misunderstanding of accounting.
> 
> ...


Correct, Many people on this forum seem to confuse "paper losses" with "actual losses"


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> I've had a fleet of cars throughout my years and if the federal government tells me this is the depreciation rate I'm going to take it as they are rarely generous when it comes to tax time.


The government is actually very generous with many deductions and credits. $.54 is wildly generous.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> A deduction is not equal to an expense. $0.54/mile is average of any car in any city or state across the country for any driver. Average. My insurance, registration, excise tax, fuel, etc don't line up with what others pay outside MA. I've tracked every penny of expense including depreciation for over 18 months and come in at $0.33/mile currently. And that is driving a gas-hungry minivan with high depreciation as it is a 2015.


Kind of. The $.54 is based on _fully financed brand new car_ average cost, not what most of us drive. Even in a 2015 you aren't approaching that number, but the naysayers won't believe you.

Also, unless you buy insurance specifically to Uber, it's not a cost of Ubering, it's a sunk cost of all car ownership. Same with taxes, registration, etc.

Good points.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> It's part of the mileage deduction.
> 
> Fat, _drunk_, and stupid...


Good catch. I was hoping that most Uber drivers aren't described with the adjective "drunk".


----------



## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Also, unless you buy insurance specifically to Uber, it's not a cost of Ubering, it's a sunk cost of all car ownership. Same with taxes, registration, etc.


either you are exposing yourself to a risk for hiding your ridesharing from your insurance company, or you are paying additional for 'rideshare insurance'.

Either way, it's a cost of doing business.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Good catch. I was hoping that most Uber drivers aren't described with the adjective "drunk".


For me, it depends on if I'm posting on here or driving.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> either you are exposing yourself to a risk for hiding your ridesharing from your insurance company, or you are paying additional for 'rideshare insurance'.
> 
> Either way, it's a cost of doing business.


I'm not hiding anything from my insurance. They are fully aware I uber and even claim that I'm covered period 1, but I won't be testing that. Drivers who think they have to hide Ubering or their personal insurance won't cover them off app are 99% mistaken if not 100%. I've not once heard of a personal insurance company not covering an off app accident and only Geico will almost certainly drop you if they find out you Uber. All of the rest don't seem to much care from what I've seen.

I do not have gap insurance yet, but will be adding it tomorrow, so that _extra_ insurance _will _be a cost of Ubering. My current insurance is not. I had it before Uber and will have it after, so it can't possibly be a cost of Ubering. Same with taxes and registration. I have to wear clothes when I Uber (thankfully for my passangers!). They are not a cost of Ubering because I already wore clothes.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> I'm not hiding anything from my insurance. They are fully aware I uber and even claim that I'm covered period 1, but I won't be testing that. Drivers who think they have to hide Ubering or their personal insurance won't cover them off app are 99% mistaken if not 100%. I've not once heard of a personal insurance company not covering an off app accident and only Geico will almost certainly drop you if they find out you Uber. All of the rest don't seem to much care.
> 
> I do not have gap insurance yet, but will be adding it tomorrow, so that extra insurance _will _be a cost of Ubering. My current insurance is not. I had it before Uber and will have it after, so it can't possibly be a cost of Ubering. Same with taxes and registration.


that is a lot of explaining! 

the fact is, if you are honest about doing ride share, you may need additional coverage, or have your rates raised (amounts to about the same thing) , or even dropped.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day".  The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.
> 
> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).
> 
> ...


In other news....

The sky really is falling and the world is coming to an end because Trump was elected.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> that is a lot of explaining!
> 
> the fact is, if you are honest about doing ride share, you may need additional coverage, or have your rates raised (amounts to about the same thing) , or even dropped.


Only those aren't the facts, they're mostly myths. My rates were not raised and almost no driver's rates are from what I've read. I don't drive in period 1 so I couldn't possibly have an at fault accident. I do want additional coverage so I will add it and that_ increase_ will be considered a cost of Ubering, as it should be.

Only Geico consistently drops Uber drivers in states they don't have a TNC policy. I've never actually heard of any other company doing it.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

Thing about taxes of course is you have to pay them with any job. Make $10/hr at a salaried job? More like $8.75 (or whatever it is). Not to mention you have to pay in some fashion to get TO the job (be it car, bus, Uber, subway, etc). It continues to boggle me when people talk about "making minimum wage after expenses" without considering the expenses that go into an actual minimum wage job.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> ... *I will add it and that increase will be considered a cost of Ubering, as it should be.*


/thumbsup


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## Buckpasser (Sep 30, 2015)

Earning , Chilling Earning , Chilling What a load of Bullshit & lies we all need to wise up, Remember we are actually EMPLOYEES if you were true 
Independent Contractors you could decline calls , cancel & pick up where & who you want. What a con job Hey Kaladick how about stock options when & if you ever go public, this will be a great stock to short. Keep losing the VC money $$$$


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

OK, your expenses aren't $.54/mile. Let's just say they're $.28/mile. In my market your gross pay is $.575/mile. This is a difference of approximately $.30/mile. 1000 miles = $300. What's $300 per week? Yeah, that's right, MINIMUM WAGE. Add the $.035/mile and you make $335 per 1000 miles. Again, you basically make minimum wage. Do you understand what I'm saying? Oh yeah, you are putting money aside to buy your next vehicle, aren't you?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> I'm familiar with this theme... "Next!"
> View attachment 82667
> View attachment 82667
> View attachment 82667


This was your summer camp? I bet you lost weight.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

CommiePuddin said:


> Because you don't have the courage of your convictions.


"Is that you John Wayne?"


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

jonhjax said:


> OK, your expenses aren't $.54/mile. Let's just say they're $.28/mile. In my market your gross pay is $.575/mile. This is a difference of approximately $.30/mile. 1000 miles = $300. What's $300 per week? Yeah, that's right, MINIMUM WAGE. Add the $.035/mile and you make $335 per 1000 miles. Again, you basically make minimum wage. Do you understand what I'm saying? Oh yeah, you are putting money aside to buy your next vehicle, aren't you?


Boston Berry will explain to you how you can plant a Uber money tree. This tree will magically grow money fruit you can harvest when needed.


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## player81 (Jan 31, 2015)

What do you guys get from disproving this post? A misinformed post like this at worst chases away some ants. You get nothing in return for boasting about how much you make or teaching people how make more profit. You're suppressing the surge due to your own arrogance. Be selfish! Keep it to yourself if you're successful!


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## Mazda3 (Jun 21, 2014)

Everyone's an expert... Instead of telling us what to do, say "here's my experience, learn from it."


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> This was my favorite part. As a full timer I'm on target to GROSS $60,000 this year and out of that NET $45,000. My vehicle cost $20,000 and only has 45k miles on it. Figure it is good for at least another 2 years before major repair (warranty covers until 100k). Assuming revenue stays the same, that's $180,000 GROSS and $135,000 NET for 3 years. Assuming I get nothing for the car at end of its life, that means I lost $20k investment to earn $135,000. I could buy 6 new cars and break even. So tell us again how the vehicles are depreciating faster than we can earn.....


You are perfect to drive for Lyft & Uber....best of luck doing that for the next decade.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> You are perfect to drive for Lyft & Uber....best of luck doing that for the next decade.


Hey the Billionaires in San Francisco do care for us or why would they include a "Planning for Retirement" link on the App?


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> That may be the title of the thread and we can both agree there are ways any rideshare takes advantage of people. BUT your statements and the figures you've presented in support of the title are wrong so you will be called out. Period.
> 
> Let's try this: I'll post a thread titled "The sky is blue" and then go on in my post to point out it is blue because light from Pluto hits the methane gas from cockroach farts creating the optical illusion of blueness but really the sky is brown.


Your point would have been much simpler and poignant, had you simply stated, _The sky is blue because it is reflecting the blue of the ocean..._


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

We can argue about the actual costs per mile to operate a TNC vehicle.

But what we all can agree with is that there is " a cost" to operate a vehicle.

And that for Uber to be allowed by government regulatory bodies not to fully disclose these costs in relations to advertising/recruiting Drivers, that is, not being allowed to even mention Gross Earnings unless costs of doing business / Net Earnings is also clearly disclosed, is the definition of "Evil".

I remember an old post from someone related to an original Uber Investor that went something like " I'm thrilled with my investment but know what Uber is doing (re Drivers) and I fear I may be going to hell for it". 

I'm actually in the less government regulations are better for business and especially small businesses camp.

But why Uber/TNCs are not required to fully disclose the average Net Earnings per mile is beyond me.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

I did this KBB test for my vehicle's depreciation:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/want...-suffered-on-your-vehicle-driving-uber.94964/


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## Ezy13 (Dec 19, 2016)

I surely have come to believe you. I have worn out my car so terribly because of the routes riders use. Allow me share a screen shot of my conversation with uber supervisors. Kindly advise me


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

player81 said:


> Keep it to yourself if you're successful!


Must disagree . . . !

If Uber somehow grew a pair of common senses, they'd reverse the whole process; treat their "partners" with more respect, take less of a cut, fire the lame, lazy, clueless app developers, hire more support people who work in real-time and speak fluent English . . . then they'd have to reject driver applicants because so people would want to do this; meaning drivers would be much more highly motivated to provide superior customers service to avoid deactivation, meaning more people would want to use Uber's services. It would be a positive feedback loop.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SCdave said:


> But why Uber/TNCs are not required to fully disclose the average Net Earnings per mile is beyond me.


. . . because Due Diligence. If we're not employees but rather small business people, then we cannot expect the Nanny State to do our work for us. The Snowflakes will melt.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> Hey the Billionaires in San Francisco do care for us or why would they include a "Planning for Retirement" link on the App?
> View attachment 82925


Looks like they may have established a "sinking fund" to provide for Uberetirees.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

As long as uber finds more gullible investors, recruiting will continue.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

circle1 said:


> . . . because Due Diligence. If we're not employees but rather small business people, then we cannot expect the Nanny State to do our work for us. The Snowflakes will melt.


Then you believe that there should be no regulations in business?


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## ADefaultUser (Nov 11, 2015)

ITT: People that understand taxes and people that don't.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.
> 
> Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.
> 
> ...


So, what you're saying is Uber should advertise you need an Uber Select capable car in order to easily make this much money?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> btw, this post started with the premise that the Uber organization is not ethically representing the reality of the Uber opportunity. Specifically that most people that drive for Uber part time, or use their personal vehicle are essentially pimping it out for some fast cash without an appreciation of the long term effects on their vehicle's long term performance.
> 
> I had this epiphany while hammering out 1,659 miles my first week working the 2300-1000 shift which consisted largely of strippers, prostitutes, booty calls and then your worker bees heading into the city...
> 
> ...


Read this:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016...standing-ubers-bleak-operating-economics.html


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> "And I always thought I was more of a realest. But write on brother I wish we all could afford a luxury vehicle however if we could we'd all be chasing the same fares like UberX. Perhaps I did not make myself clear as the post was not meant for the a seasoned professional like yourself, but the beginner, rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising.
> 
> As far as the milage rate... I've had a fleet of cars throughout my years and if the federal government tells me this is the depreciation rate I'm going to take it as they are rarely generous when it comes to tax time. Note: this rate is adjusted yearly as fuel prices fluctuate.
> 
> Peace!"


My question for that guy is how in the world is he driving 500 miles a day? It just doesn't seem possible and I have to wonder about his overall veracity.


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## Django81 (Jan 26, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.


Question is what does uber have to gain by with such a link - Never put your eggs in one basket - ever never ever


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> The same old non-math. Unless you drove a car off the lot to your first ping, you aren't paying anywhere near $.54 a mile. That's a deduction, not an estimate. Mine was $.17 a mile in 2015 and $.20 in 2016.
> 
> 1,000 miles a week? That would pay $1,500 or more in my market. I clear over $20 an hour ubering on average after all costs.


Ok let's use 17c a mile as the actual cost of ubering, and some numbers from the Orlando market. Because I can't be accused of fudging the numbers to erroniously show an advantage to uber being terrible.

The per mile rate is 65c per mile,@ 25% cut to uber that is 48c a mile.
The average paid mileage ratio in Orlando is about 30%. As in you have to drive 10 miles total to get 3 paid. This is astonishingly bad for the industry, a lot of this has to do with the airport (and the entire area around it) being off limits for UberX/XL/most of select, and all but a small fraction of the areas Taxis. But i'm going to use 50%.

1000 miles 20 hour trip would be... Orlando to Pittsburgh (and the addresses just happen to be 1000 miles apart perfectly)

$96 in time and $480 in mileage, or a combined total of $576, this is the mathematical most that an uber driver out here can get without surges for the that number of miles.

1000 miles at .17c a mile is $170. So subtract that $170 from $576 leaves you with...

$406 (or $20 an hour in actual earnings)

But wait i'm now i'm Pittsburgh and i want to go home and... So that is another $170 back.

I'm now back at home with $236 left after expenses (at 17c a mile mind you)
Which for 40 hours of driving leaves me at $5.90 per hour or $86 short of minimum wage for 40 hours of work, with a perfect 50% paid mileage ratio and 17c a mile in expenses.

Your argument, does not cover all markets, some the rates are just too criminally low, and since uber rates only continuously slide downhill, you need to leave the mine when the canaries start to die; Not when your choking the death.

Let's for the fun of it, show the taxable income
54c a mile would net the driver

$576 in revenue, to $540 in costs, or $36 in profit one way in taxable income or less than $1.00 in profit per hour.

or -504 in deductible losses driving back to orlando or -12.60 in losses per hour.

So in a perfect word... which this is not, that puts the mathmatical earnings for an Orlando uberX driver at somewhere between $-12.60 in losses to $5.90 per hour


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## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> A deduction is not equal to an expense. $0.54/mile is average of any car in any city or state across the country for any driver. Average. My insurance, registration, excise tax, fuel, etc don't line up with what others pay outside MA. I've tracked every penny of expense including depreciation for over 18 months and come in at $0.33/mile currently. And that is driving a gas-hungry minivan with high depreciation as it is a 2015.


the only thing that i dont accept about the "expenses" part is the 
-- insurance
-- registration
-- excise tax

To own a vehicle, whether you drive for U/L, you must pay for these things regardless.

Dont have a vehicle, dont have these expenses. Have a vehicle, have these expenses.

So these should not be included in the expenses with regards to working for U/L. Because if you decide to work for U/L or not, you still need to pay for these regardless. If you have commercial vs non-com insurance then you could take the difference in premium and add it in as a U/L expense.

And if you dont do your own maintenance on the car like tires, brakes, etc, then you're really paying out the nose!


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Ok let's use 17c a mile as the actual cost of ubering, and some numbers from the Orlando market. Because I can't be accused of fudging the numbers to erroniously show an advantage to uber being terrible.
> 
> The per mile rate is 65c per mile,@ 25% cut to uber that is 48c a mile.
> The average paid mileage ratio in Orlando is about 30%. As in you have to drive 10 miles total to get 3 paid. This is astonishingly bad for the industry, a lot of this has to do with the airport (and the entire area around it) being off limits for UberX/XL/most of select, and all but a small fraction of the areas Taxis. But i'm going to use 50%.
> ...


So your hypothetical low profit scenario is based on the 1 and a billion chance you get a request to go to Pittsburgh from Orlando and having to dead head back home?

How about you give a more realistic scenario where you drive that 1000 miles around town and when you need to get home, you're only 5 miles from there and you don't spend that extra $170 and 20 hours to get home, but rather earning during that 20 hour period...

Showing a net loss on paper for tax purposes is a good thing, doesn't mean you've actually made such loses...



HHTJ said:


> the only thing that i dont accept about the "expenses" part is the
> -- insurance
> -- registration
> -- excise tax
> ...


If you force yourself to do Uber the "wrong" way aka "full time" then of course your profit looks to suffer as you have to consider the vehicle costs and full insurance as part of your expenses.

Uber was meant to be a supplemental income. If you have a full time job, you already had a vehicle and insurance that should be covered by that income. So driving for Uber will show more profitable as you do not include those expenses in your earnings.


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## Drivingthecattlehome (Sep 13, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.
> 
> Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you work for them. My accountant said I was earning 25cent per Km in the land of Oz. He suggested I take alternative employment. Full Stop. Uber is community work without the sentence. Or until you have serious accident and then Uber washes is hands of any liability. In Australia you can be charged for murder if you kill someone in an accident and it was your fault.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> So your hypothetical low profit scenario is based on the 1 and a billion chance you get a request to go to Pittsburgh from Orlando and having to dead head back home?
> 
> How about you give a more realistic scenario where you drive that 1000 miles around town


The sad unfortunate truth is that 50% paid is the national average for uber, and Orlando is well below this number. The truth of the matter is that the taxis don't get much better than 50%.. ever.. uber won't be able to do much better than this. I'll give you some scenerios.

There are 6 major theme parks in the immediate area plus umpteen water parks, every day from 5 to closing fares pour out of the parks. It's so much so that it accounts for a large portion of the business, combine this with the airport and you are looking at a bulk of the business at night in the market during those hours, seriously.

How many people do you think pay to get rides to the Magic Kingdom parking lot in the time between 3 hours before the park closes, and an hour after?

What do you think this ratio is compared to the number of fares coming out?

How many people do you think are paying for rides.. from the theme-parks in the first few hours they are open? Compared to the number going to them?

50% is the pipe dream that drivers in this area will almost never get.

30-40% is the best that we get most of the time. Going 2 miles to drive someone 3 miles, to get $2.70 and taking half an hour to do it. Then turning back around to go to where we just were because we have no hope of getting a pickup in the boonies at 2:00 am.

OK let's do the REAL numbers for 1000 miles driven in Orlando.

50 hours driven
20 hours paid- $96
400 paid miles- $216 (40% paid/unpaid ratio, this is ABOVE AVERAGE) for the Orlando market)
10 canceled fares/no shows- $40

$352-500 total including surge fares, averages out to 7-10 per hour over 50 hours. (this is seriously the range) a great deal of trips come up at the minimum amount, or $2.70 to the driver.

1000 total miles driven
$170 in expenses
$182-$330 in profit

$3.64-$6.60 per hour at 17c a mile in expenses.

30c per mile expenses
352-500 in revenue
$300 in expenses
$52-200 in profit
or $1.04 per hour to $4.00 per hour

54c per mile expenses

352-500 in revenue
$540 in expenses
-188 to -40 in taxable profit


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SCdave said:


> Then you believe that there should be no regulations in business?


Excellent question! The answer to which would most likely be a thread unto itself. Short answer: yes, there needs to be regulation of business.

I understand the need to protect the "little guy" against the the Titans of Power. But at some point it becomes absurd when we have to have government do our thinking for us. It's like what happens to the body when we don't exercise, the limbs undergo atrophy.

"Those Who Sacrifice *Liberty* For *Security* *Deserve Neither*."


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

ADefaultUser said:


> ITT: People that understand taxes and people that don't.


What is "ITT?"


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Drivingthecattlehome said:


> Sounds like you work for them. My accountant said I was earning 25cent per Km in the land of Oz. He suggested I take alternative employment. Full Stop. Uber is community work without the sentence. Or until you have serious accident and then Uber washes is hands of any liability. In Australia you can be charged for murder if you kill someone in an accident and it was your fault.


I wish I worked for Uber, I would be making far more money than I am...

If they are hiring, please let me know. I'll dust off the ol' resume...

If you are driving full time, then your accountants advise is worth listening to. Uber is not mean to be a full time job. If you want to drive passengers around for a living, there are better paying alternatives than Ubering.

If that's Australian law, how is it any different whether you hit and killed someone in an accident driving for Uber or driving to the grocery store?



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The sad unfortunate truth is that 50% paid is the national average for uber, and Orlando is well below this number. The truth of the matter is that the taxis don't get much better than 50%.. ever.. uber won't be able to do much better than this. I'll give you some scenerios.
> 
> There are 6 major theme parks in the immediate area plus umpteen water parks, every day from 5 to closing fares pour out of the parks. It's so much so that it accounts for a large portion of the business, combine this with the airport and you are looking at a bulk of the business at night in the market during those hours, seriously.
> 
> ...


Well it's unfortunate that you live in such a terrible market. Yet oddly enough, I hear the same types of rhetoric coming from the Atlanta subforum on occasion, but there are plenty of us in Atlanta that are doing just fine or better. Everyone will scoff and say it's because I drive Select, but there are some days where I may only get 1 Select ride. Sure, there are days when Select hits a home run, but it's not often. Even when I was driving just X, I don't recall ever going too far below $1 a mile, including dead miles.

Maybe I'm lucky and have a good market, or maybe I just learned the sweet spots better than others...

I won't take away your own personal experience; I've never driving the Orlando market. If it's as terrible as you say, I hope you are looking for alternative employment...


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

"Maybe I'm lucky and have a good market, or maybe I just learned the sweet spots better than others..." Or maybe you're one of the uber ants that Travis just adores.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

SCdave said:


> We can argue about the actual costs per mile to operate a TNC vehicle.
> 
> But what we all can agree with is that there is " a cost" to operate a vehicle.
> 
> ...


Write on, write on..

How about your trips report that only mentions the pick up time not the completion. Hey, Uber Pool. Two Emory girls thirty minutes and $5 and change. I'm now the welfare state for students that pay 65k a year. I'm going to heaven.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Yet another over commented thread by someone who drives a Mercedes or BMW and can't understand why people with a $3,000 Saturn or $6000 Grand Caravan can't make money.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> That is an entirely accurate statement that I can agree with wholeheartedly. If you had said that earlier you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble.


Note to self, do not crucifi BB. He is on board for the revolution .


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Thing about taxes of course is you have to pay them with any job. Make $10/hr at a salaried job? More like $8.75 (or whatever it is). Not to mention you have to pay in some fashion to get TO the job (be it car, bus, Uber, subway, etc). It continues to boggle me when people talk about "making minimum wage after expenses" without considering the expenses that go into an actual minimum wage job.


When you make minimum wage you are exempt from a lot of taxes. Ever get a tax return in high school? You get almost all of your money back.

While this job allows you to deduct mileage or expenses making a lot of our earnings are tax free, it doesnt mean those expenses dont come directly out of our pocket.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

HHTJ said:


> the only thing that i dont accept about the "expenses" part is the
> -- insurance


Regular insurance yes but commercial/ rideshare insurance is unique to ridesharing and an added expense.


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## Lucidexclusive (Oct 5, 2016)

This post is such crap, it doesn't cost $.54 a mile to operate a normal vehicle the right off is a huge benefit


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## AZSED (Dec 21, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> i love how a 'select' specialist, and a 'minivan' specialist have come on here to defend uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...


Hmmmmm... They are Uber...paid employess... not drivers


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## AZSED (Dec 21, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> blah, blah, blah.. dude it's guys like you that drove me out of the corporate world. You just cant wrap yourself around what I am saying. I don't care if your copious experience, business acumen allows you to scratch out a living doing this because that was not my point. My point is the organization (perhaps organiz
> View attachment 82018
> ations) have tapped into some elaborate like ponzi scheme to fleece people, some of the communities most vulnerable while making billions and billions.
> 
> ...


LoL.. good one... I will give the answer for him.. The Sky is GREY


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## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> Regular insurance yes but commercial/ rideshare insurance is unique to ridesharing and an added expense.


as i said then the DIFFERENCE between the two can be added into the expenses calculation when referring to U/L


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## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

steveK2016 said:


> While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.
> 
> Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.
> 
> ...


How much is your Rideshare Insurance?
Please post your $25,000 2016 Uber driver income. Do you claim your over $2.000 tip income?


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

The biggest manifestation in your costs of running an uber is something that you I can easily express but not as a dollar amount today. It's not even a dollar, but it's something that will cost 10s of thousands over the next few decades. Or not at all. I honestly couldn't say because of how high the churn is this math will probobly NEVER come to fruition for most Uber drivers.




How many years are you going to keep your car?

driving for uber will drastically lower the length of time you "CAN" keep a car for. If your doing 70,000 miles a year in hard uber Miles, that car is going to start falling apart a lot faster and will hit the limit for you getting #(*#* off and selling it, years and years before it would otherwise.

My dad's mustang for instance is in amazing shape, barely has 50,000 miles on it. He bought it new in 66 from the showroom.

"The toyota Sienna i used as a taxi for 4 years was over 210,000 miles and was worth it's scrap value because it critically needed 4 times the work to get it running and back on the road and the condition was... not ideal to be selling, I could have spent $6,000 rebuilding... about half of the critical systems, who knows how long i was going to be able to keep it running, and if i did and it got stolen/ totaled (even if it wasn't my fault) i would only get the estimated value back on it.. Or about $1,500.



You don't spend $6,000 on a 4 year old taxi that can't quite come clean right anymore. A 4 year old sienna would have been worth a lot more if i hadn't been using it as a taxi.


So... if you buy a car every 3 years... (which is probobly the point my van would have been too funky for Uber and 5 star ratings) That's the entire value of the van every 3 years. That's just shy of 10,000 a year if i bought a new car again. (14c a mile in car purchase costs) (at 200 miles a day you have $23.50 in purchase costs)

Or i can buy a used car of the same model and replace it more often say buy it around $10,000 at 100,000 miles and keep it a year and a half, or about $6,600 a year. So that comes to 9.4c per mile in purchase costs. My day to day costs in just paying for the car would come to $18.80 per day.

But you would have a car anyway right?

Wrong..

Over 10 years, instead of buying one new car, (purchase 30,000) you have 3 new cars (60,000 extra) or 7 used cars at a cost of $40,000 extra over 10 years vs keeping a car for 10 years. This is 4,000 to 6,000 a YEAR more than what your probobly at if you weren't doing uber, just in purchasing cars.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The biggest manifestation in your costs of running an uber is something that you I can easily express but not as a dollar amount today. It's not even a dollar, but it's something that will cost 10s of thousands over the next few decades. Or not at all. I honestly couldn't say because of how high the churn is this math will probobly NEVER come to fruition for most Uber drivers.
> 
> How many years are you going to keep your car?
> 
> ...


The problem here troll4 is one of perspective. You and I have watched beautiful new cars turn into shitbox toilets in 2-4 years due to the 70,000 miles per year burdened upon them.

Uber Cost Deniers think this is a Magic Taxi issue and that Uber cars will somehow be immune.
As I've said before, 70,000 miles a year in ANY car for 2 years or more will eat the car alive no matter what you do.
The interior will stink. 70,000 miles is 30,000 asses and 60,000 feet. Many of these ass and feet combos will not be freshly scrubbed or powdered.

Then there's the driver. Oh yeah UberX STARTED pristine, yeah they all showered and put on freshly laundered outfits, brush and floss, etc...
Then the rate cuts hit and now it's about the next ping, I'm clean enough for these Non tipping slores, I vacuumed last week.
They will see. Uber full time for 700 days in a car and watch it become a stinky hunk of junk.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> The problem here troll4 is one of perspective. You and I have watched beautiful new cars turn into shitbox toilets in 2-4 years due to the 70,000 miles per year burdened upon them.


Why is it that the tax drivers get my numbers, and understand them, while uber drivers can't possibly believe them.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Drive a car for personal use, all expenses are part of your family/household budget.

Drive a car for TNC / Delivery / any Transportation related business, all expenses are part of your business and are costs that are real today or will become real in the future (thus most costs tracted per mile).

How you want to assign or track your personal family expenses is up to you.

How you want to assign or track or cost your business expenses can be just standard accounting practices or creative accounting practices (like the corporate boys/gals). But all expenses incurred while driving as a business will reduce your Net Income.

Short version:
- Car for personal use don't assign or tract expenses.
- Car for business use, no matter how you want to argue the point, those expenses are part of the costs of doing business and reduce your Net Business Income.

Can we look at National Standards for vehicle costs and increase or decrease those per mile costs for are own estimate on our vehicle type for our part of the country? Of course, and I do also. But I start with those National Averages and I'm not trying to make myself feel better by ignoring those costs.

And just because you have experience driving your personal vehicle doesn't mean you fully can gage the costs of driving that same vehicle as a transportation business with heavier payload (butts in seats), over roads you normally wouldn't drive, during times you normally wouldn't drive, and durations you normally wouldn't drive. It all adds up and adds up and adds up.

We can argue the exact amounts but drive the transportation gig and assign costs like a business person.

That's all I got


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Sidenote -
On days I feel down and depressed, I ignore all business expenses and just look at the Big Earnings Uber deposits into my bank account on Wednesdays.

On days I'm feeling Eyes Wide Open Awake, I calculate my Net Earnings per miles driven. You know, like a business person.

But honestly, I do ignore costs some weeks just to feel better. You know, just like Uber/Lyft and their investors hope all of us would do 24/7/365.

* Guess which days my dear old dad, the CPA, reaches down and slaps me upside the head?


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

In a year or two, the Carfax is going to show a big *'U'* in addition to the hunk of miles.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> In a year or two, the Carfax is going to show a big *'U'* in addition to the hunk of miles.


It probobly should. A car used for uber could have 20 hours idling a week on top of the miles, compared to a vehicle with no ride share history.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> "Maybe I'm lucky and have a good market, or maybe I just learned the sweet spots better than others..." Or maybe you're one of the uber ants that Travis just adores.


I suppose I am, or many I'm Ubering the way it was intended. Would I love to make more money driving my car around, absolutely! Would I like to make that money while putting half the effort, who wouldn't?! But for as simple as Ubering is, the return is not terrible. It's the only supplemental income that can be done on my own schedule during hours I would otherwise be doing nothing but spending money.



JimS said:


> Yet another over commented thread by someone who drives a Mercedes or BMW and can't understand why people with a $3,000 Saturn or $6000 Grand Caravan can't make money.


Everyone just keeps glossing over the main point of my replies on this thread. The main point was to the depression of a vehicle used as a part timer. Anyone stupid enough to quit their day job or Uber is their only option so they go full time, well, the problem is as much you as it is Uber. Rideshare was never meant to be a full time profession. If you try to force it to be, you'll have a hard time.

I drove X only before I became select, and I made out just fine exclusively on X. Now I do better on Select. Nothing is stopping you from upgrading. Some want to drive a beater car to milk every penny out of Uber, me, I love my car and it earns me extra cash on the weekends. Not everyone can afford multiple cars, multiple insurance policies... so if I'm going to have one car, I'll drive one that I want to drive. My car payment and insurance is covered by my 9-5, payments that I would make even if I didn't Uber. So by doing Uber, I make a lot of extra cash.



AZSED said:


> Hmmmmm... They are Uber...paid employess... not drivers


I wish I was a paid employee, you can go ahead and read through my whole history and see me be critical.

It's not difficult: If you think you can do better than Uber, than do better! Uber is an entry level, part time gig as best. If it's no longer profitable, do something better!



UberXking said:


> How much is your Rideshare Insurance?
> Please post your $25,000 2016 Uber driver income. Do you claim your over $2.000 tip income?


I pay under $1200 a year for Rideshare Hybrid Insurance with Geico.

The last two are between me, my accountant and the IRS but $25,000 is certainly achievable in my market. If you don't believe me, I really don't care... I have no problem with any or all of you quitting Uber to help unsaturate the various markets that you drive...


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> It probobly should. A car used for uber could have 20 hours idling a week on top of the miles, compared to a vehicle with no ride share history.


It's valuable info. I don't know if they will literally post it on the Carfax, but it will be 'in the system' for gov't, banks, car insurance, anybusiness etc.. to access.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Why is it that the tax drivers get my numbers, and understand them, while uber drivers can't possibly believe them.


. . . B'cause taxi drivers are business-minded.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SCdave said:


> But all expenses incurred while driving as a business will reduce your Net Income.


Actually, expenses incurred while driving as a business lowers your gross income tax liability (and if one looks very carefully, there's lots of deductions).


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

It's funny when i see people on here posting their "earnings" and think that's what they really made. LMAO.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

circle1 said:


> Actually, expenses incurred while driving as a business lowers your gross income tax liability (and if one looks very carefully, there's lots of deductions).


Of course.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

uber strike said:


> It's funny when i see people on here posting their "earnings" and think that's what they really made. LMAO.


Its funny when people post their earnings and jealous people go "What about expenses, taxes and depreciation!"


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## Drivingthecattlehome (Sep 13, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.
> 
> Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.
> 
> ...


Understand army of phantom drivers defending foolsber online. We can see you coming a mile away.haha. the above post is absolutely true. Start depreciating your vehicle.


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## Pearlina (Oct 18, 2016)

I'm always wondering how is it legally possible that uber is "false advertising" and no one has sued yet!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Pearlina said:


> I'm always wondering how is it legally possible that uber is "false advertising" and no one has sued yet!


There are over 800 pending lawsuits, gotta be a couple for false advertising in there somewhere.


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## Pearlina (Oct 18, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> There are over 800 pending lawsuits, gotta be a couple for false advertising in there somewhere.


I would hope so. Problem is that you'd have to prove Uber's "researchers" wrong. As they will just regurgitate as usual ..


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

The other issue with false advertising is that Uber constantly changes their pitch. 3 years ago it was "make $1500 to $2000 weekly" now they are down to "get your side hustle on".
Uber is nothing if not mostly lawyers.
Cockroaches and snakes who could sugarcoat a judge's ear with "oh yeah that was LAST year your honor. We have since invented the SIDE hustle as projecting NUMBERS is so CRUDE...".


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## Blackcar37 (Sep 23, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> "And I always thought I was more of a realest. But write on brother I wish we all could afford a luxury vehicle however if we could we'd all be chasing the same fares like UberX. Perhaps I did not make myself clear as the post was not meant for the a seasoned professional like yourself, but the beginner, rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising.
> 
> As far as the milage rate... I've had a fleet of cars throughout my years and if the federal government tells me this is the depreciation rate I'm going to take it as they are rarely generous when it comes to tax time. Note: this rate is adjusted yearly as fuel prices fluctuate.
> 
> Peace!"


There will always be negative comments about any job. If you want to earn easy money then uber is a good choice. Get the right type of car... don't spend more that 10- 15% of your weekly earnings on fuel. Get a reliable car. Treat it like a business even if it's a p/t gig. Don't listen to people who post negative comments. It's not for everyone and if you don't have the will it won't work out.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Blackcar37 said:


> There will always be negative comments about any job. If you want to earn easy money then uber is a good choice. Get the right type of car... don't spend more that 10- 15% of your weekly earnings on fuel. Get a reliable car. Treat it like a business even if it's a p/t gig. Don't listen to people who post negative comments. It's not for everyone and if you don't have the will it won't work out.


It varies by market, i'd be doing uber full time in Seattle if i lived there.. for instance. But it varies massively by market. Some markets are worse than others about the % of empty miles or the rates, or the amount of time you spend idle.

The lowest paid rate currently paid to the driver in the nation is in Norfolk Virginia 45c a mile paid to the driver, you can't make it work out, the numbers just don't add up.

There is no rationale allowing me to get my number down to 15c a mile. Yes in some markets that's what you need in order to turn a profit with half of your miles being paid. Even then with 15c per mile in expenses and a 50% paid mileage ratio, your per mile breakdown looks like this.

8c a minute profit ($4.20 an hour)
45c a mile
-15c per paid mile
-15c per unpaid mile
15c profit

That puts the profit on a 60 mile 60 minute trip at $13.00 when your expenses are 15c a mile. 15c per mile is VERY conservative cost per mile. I'm at 10c per mile in gasoline.

That's $13 profit and you are now an hour away from the where you were.

I know the Orlando Market, so i'm going to use the "Second lowest rates in nation" In the Orlando market, given average paid mileage numbers, you have to be under 18.66c a mile to achieve a break even scenario. As in.. you are still literally only making zero if you are operating at exactly 18.66c per mile. Even uber people's most conservative numbers come up to barely less than this number. Usually people can at least agree on 20c a mile in actual expenses.

48c per mile paid to the driver+ 8c per minute= 56c per highway mile.

at 33% paid mileage ratio (Orlando has pretty lousy numbers in this regard)

In this scenerio...
Per mile you have a passenger (at exactly 60 MPH)
8c per minute
48c per mile
18.66c in costs per paid mile
37.32c in UNPAID miles to cover
ZERO PROFIT

So in Orlando let's assume 10c a mile in expenses. The actual cost of gasoline and absolutely nothing more.

48c a mile (60 miles)
8c a minute (60 minutes)
10c a mile (paid miles)
20c a mile (unpaid ratio)

26c a mile in profit for 60 miles is

$15.60 in profit (AT 10c A MILE IN COSTS) for uberX

And we have the worst market in America. 2/3rds unpaid miles plus the second lowest paid mileage in the nation, and it's virtually impossible to turn a profit, and the tax hole you dig can vastly exceed your entire revenue. The little i worked in 2106... the uber revenue is exceeded by my tax deduction by over 40%.

Compare either of these scenarios to the the local taxi rates

In a taxi here in Orlando that's a $150ish fare plus an average of 15% tip, with at least 40% of the fare going to the driver. Sometimes i get as high as 2/3rds of the meter for MY keep after paying for the taxi, gas and tolls.
$22.50 in tip (on average)
$60-$100 in commission on the fare.

So that's $60-122.50 in a taxi going to the driver. With a $150-170 fare hitting 2/3rds is a lot more likely, as i'm only paying $66 a night to lease a car.

VS $60-$122 going to a taxi driver. Even in the "10c a mile cost fantasy land".. the cab drivers TIP exceeds the uberX drivers profit by about 50%. Unless you can honestly rationalize getting your expenses under 10c a mile... which i think is fantasy realms... your never going to make good money at these rates. Period!

Or you can play the surge rates only game... which never has any trips coming up to the taxi rates anymore. And this isn't counting putting in 6-7 miles in 30 minutes for a $2.70 payout.

There is no reason to treat this gig like a part time gig, the cab drivers out here put in 12 hour shifts 6+ days a week and the top drivers might have $50,000 a year in profit, whereas with uber i can't work out how to even make a profit on paper.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I never told you how it is in ATL. YOU told ME. I took your ride numbers that you provided and did the math. Sorry that 1+1=3.1386437 for you but for the rest of us it is just simple old 2!
> 
> And then add minutes, base, surge, promotions, etc. You can't calculate your profit on miles alone. That's like a grocer saying they only made $100 today because that's what they sold in oranges. What about the apples?!
> 
> Sweet baby jeebus. Nobody hates uber more than I do guys but making up things to be angry about and supporting it with false statements/poor research/guesstimates is counter-productive and distracts from the real issues with uber. Focus!


I've been supplementing my social security retirement money with Uber since October. I'm still learning the rhythms of the road... for instance that most of the commuters I drive every morning were off from work and missing in action yesterday (Friday). Today I saw that there was a small surge around the Bridgeport train station about 5 AM. I hurriedly dressed and went out to the train station but the surge never rematerialized. I spent from 6AM until 1 PM dodging crazed drivers and being stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on I-95 in Milford.

I quit at 1 PM. I only earned $60 (probably spent $10 on fuel). My car already had 125,000 miles on it when I began driving for Uber... I'm hoping that once I pay off all the end of the year bills I can start putting money aside for a new vehicle. I'd LIKE a gas guzzling Jeep Wrangler on Steroids model, but I would settle for something like my current Santa Fe... but tougher... I took the Santa Fe "off road" last summer and did about $1000 worth of damage to the suspension and cracked the left front axle.

Yeah, I am NO mechanically inclined car guy!

Oh, what I meant to say, before I got distracted (damn you Vodka!) is that I am signing up my younger brother tomorrow. He works full time but needs an extra $100 a week to be able to go on small day trips and mini-vacations. He actually likes to drive, where-as I prefer avoiding human interaction and spending hours with the feral cat colony in my back yard.

No one mentored or sponsored me when I contacted UBER... although later on you guys all became a valuable resource. I think that my brother will take to being an UBER driver with more grace and less fear than I did. I guess we'll find out.


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## Buckpasser (Sep 30, 2015)

Lies , lies and more lies, more lies than on a Golf course F**K Uber


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## Kembolicous (May 31, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> Write on.... feel free to fill in the blanks on how it is that you are averaging $1250 a week. Let's keep in mind that my experiences are Atlanta based, UberX and with limited experience on the road. If I was an accountant type I'd be sitting in a clients conference room combing through bankers boxes finding ways for them to avoid paying federal income taxes and getting mad perks along the way, but I'm not. I'm lazy about that and do not want to fill all available nooks and crannies of my vehicle with receipts. There are times I am rushing to fill up so that I can enjoy the euphoria of another incoming ping like some crack addict hitting that pipe. Maybe that will change, but I believe most Uber drivers are like me and want to leave all this behind them when they go off line.
> 
> So I want to keep it simple, and ATL. I'm not moving to Boston, I hate the weather there and your baseball team (lol, not really). Break it down for me por favor. I learned about Uber in DC while traveling there and constantly heard the same from drivers there $1,400 a week, but Uber advertising here states you can earn in the $500 a week area. Maybe are rates are too low. I did 70-90 pickups the past two weeks and the numbers are more in line with $500 a week for way too much time on the road. I was tired after a busy morning with no down time between pings averaging just over $10/hour gross and I decided to go back on line around Emory University. It was an Uber pool and I hesitated a moment but hit that pipe one more time. Result: two students pickups, thirty minutes of total travel time to deposit them at separate coffee houses and a combined fee of just over $5.00 so,
> 
> ...


I agree with you. ......Uber/Lyft once you start looking at it, is Socialized-Subsidized Transportation. The rates are so absurdly low for the rider, that the real cost of a ride ( what the taxi companies charges them) compared to rideshare is laughable. Does rideshare mean the driver shares the cost? Yes. Does Lyft Uber pay anything for the trip? No. They have nothing in it other than the app, and maybe bribes to the politicians.. A $30 taxi trip, that costs the rider $10 in rideshare, means someone else, the driver is covering the rest of the cost, the missing $20. Those leeches in California get their cut regardless. Socialism is great until the person paying for it has their money run out. I think it is time for me to say screw this. What started out looking so beautiful now is looking very ugly.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.
> 
> What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).
> 
> ...


I wonder if there is a different depreciation amount for those who drive commercially, since the additional miles driven put that much more damage on your car... Plus, my insurance had been $35 per month, now $150, new brakes, regular maintenance $40 a month, yadda yadda...


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

UberNaToo said:


> btw, this post started with the premise that the Uber organization is not ethically representing the reality of the Uber opportunity. Specifically that most people that drive for Uber part time, or use their personal vehicle are essentially pimping it out for some fast cash without an appreciation of the long term effects on their vehicle's long term performance.
> 
> I had this epiphany while hammering out 1,659 miles my first week working the 2300-1000 shift which consisted largely of strippers, prostitutes, booty calls and then your worker bees heading into the city...
> 
> ...


Check out this website & articles about Uber. The financial types who actually know what they're talking about laugh about the rubes that are insulting your with their "vast" knowledge:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016...r-comments-and-questions.html#comment-2734368

You might want to search the whole site for all the articles. It's quite... exposing.


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

no matter what u do you are making 1/3rd a cab driver and paying for your car. That should be your concern not if a deduction = depreciation.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

Buckpasser said:


> Lies , lies and more lies, more lies than on a Golf course F**K Uber


I would rather spend a day shaghing balls out of the rough than play games with the rich or their lackies.

We're going to take it back and return America to the people... One Uber pool denial at a time. Boom!


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

That watch was earned while being a war pig for the military industrial complex. I keep it to remind me how easy it is to get sucked into the lies the corporations feed us.

Think about it. America used to be about education, employment, retirement and rewards. Something got screwed up with globalization, the 80's exporting jobs, executives wanted to be rock stars, pro athletes and their boards granted this with no conditions all they had to do was generate profit. Profit they did but at the expense of the workers, no one cared when it was our black brothers, or the illegals but it was not enough these mindless Harvard privileged types turned the screw tighter and shut down our factories, exported jobs and left us with a multi level marketing lie called Uber.

It's going to fail but in the process will you be the foder to that end? L. A., D.C., NYC. Real rates, real incentives but here in ATLANTA nada. No me gusta ******. Mas dinero pendero....

Can you feel me?


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Why is it that the tax drivers get my numbers, and understand them, while uber drivers can't possibly believe them.


Recruitment...


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

HHTJ said:


> the only thing that i dont accept about the "expenses" part is the
> -- insurance
> -- registration
> -- excise tax
> ...


The federal government with knuckle heads that crunch numbers for them from schools like GT, MIT, and Harvard say your GED math does it rate consideration. Your reckless support of some Peter Pan like fantasy is dangerous and culpable. Why is everyone here a subject matter expert but working out of a broke ass car with "Whopper" special sauce stains littering the their crotch area of their board room chair?


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

So just to keep this short. The income inequality in this country is horrendous. Uber started off great for me when I started it was 2.50 mile and surging all the time. Even then I knew the income wasn't enough to buy a new car every 2 years. Uber preyed on drivers and consumers could care less. I stopped driving and went back to school. The wealthy in this country for some reason act like they are the drivers of job growth and economic growth but that's far from true. Consumers drive economic growth but when peoples wages stay stagnant to keep margins better keeps people from being consumers. Ubers actions in Austin sure painted the picture of thier culture. It's just a shame that Thier low rates have set the standard in the industry.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

melusine3 said:


> I wonder if there is a different depreciation amount for those who drive commercially, since the additional miles driven put that much more damage on your car... Plus, my insurance had been $35 per month, now $150, new brakes, regular maintenance $40 a month, yadda yadda...


There's just the one rate, unless you can deduct your actual costs (which is borderline impossible to calculate and get part time. Or full time unless your looking 4+ years out.

In the past the 55c a mile rate was enough for me to be able to pay for commercial insurance. Gas was more expensive back then to.

The actual costs now are (while variable) you are probobly in the 40-50c a mile range depending on what kind of car you have. It should still be enough to cover commercial insurance at the 53.5c for next years rate.

08-2012 I ran a taxi with full commercial insurance for 220,000 miles and my total costs including commercial insurance was about $110,000 over 4 years (then i sold the POS car for next to nothing because it needed more work than it was worth to get it running. The standard mileage over that time varied from 50-55c a mile, so i was hovering right around my actual expenses even with commercial coverage.

The 2016 rate gives you a budget of $54 per 100 miles, 2017 rate gives you a budget of $53 per 100 miles.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

strongarm said:


> So just to keep this short. The income inequality in this country is horrendous. Uber started off great for me when I started it was 2.50 mile and surging all the time. Even then I knew the income wasn't enough to buy a new car every 2 years. Uber preyed on drivers and consumers could care less. I stopped driving and went back to school. The wealthy in this country for some reason act like they are the drivers of job growth and economic growth but that's far from true. Consumers drive economic growth but when peoples wages stay stagnant to keep margins better keeps people from being consumers. Ubers actions in Austin sure painted the picture of thier culture. It's just a shame that Thier low rates have set the standard in the industry.


I'm no economist...but it does seem to make sense that when average middle-class people have more disposable income due to fair wages, they will be more inclined to spend. This, in turn, I would think would keep the wheels of the economy healthy and turning. When companies want to put products out, people are more inclined to buy a few excess things or eat out if they feel that their household budget will allow for it.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

If you are doing this part time with your primary personal vehicle, then yes, I would agree that depreciation takes a big toll. However, if you do this full time and buy a used car solely for Uber, there is a finite amount of real depreciation that can occur (even a non-running car has scrap value), and barring an engine/transmission failure that makes the car a total loss, you can drive a fully depreciated car for Uber for only the cost of repairs (and gas/insurance).


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

melusine3 said:


> I wonder if there is a different depreciation amount for those who drive commercially, since the additional miles driven put that much more damage on your car... Plus, my insurance had been $35 per month, now $150, new brakes, regular maintenance $40 a month, yadda yadda...


Ehh it would really only hurt the value of the buyer knew. Same depreciation. Insurance is more but that's seperate. Treat insurance as specific licenses or regulation. If you owned a bar you would need a liquor license to sell liquor. If your ever in an accident then no worries hopefully. But commercial mileage just don't say anything. Besides if you trade in the dealer might try to flip it and I promise he will lie and say a teacher owned the car. Best kind of vehicle for the job is used not too expensive possibly falls in a higher tier and of course mpg and maintenance costs are low. Tough to find something but you need to hunt. Personally I lean preowned Lincoln, lexas, Acura. When you buy Used the original buyer takes the biggest hit of depreciation. And those cars won't be very far off from Thier main line models. Maintenance cost not bad either very close to Ford toyotA and Honda. Parts the same not terrible but it's not like a German car.


ABC123DEF said:


> I'm no economist...but it does seem to make sense that when average middle-class people have more disposable income due to fair wages, they will be more inclined to spend. This, in turn, I would think would keep the wheels of the economy healthy and turning. When companies want to put products out, people are more inclined to buy a few excess things or eat out if they feel that their household budget will allow for it.


Exactly why did Henry Ford pay his employees more? So his employees could afford to buy his cars. It worked like a charm. Not only do those people have more income that they can spend on nice things but the more nice things that get sold means that there are more jobs available on the market. It's a nice little cycle but for some reason we keep giving the wealthy tax breaks bc they have appointed themselves as the job creators. But it is consumer demand that creates more jobs. I guess we will see how long people will allow the wealthy to just gather all the wealth. On the bright side were about to get a new administration full of those nice wealthy people who have proposed tax cuts already to the "job creators.". No one saw that coming I guess.


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> If you are doing this part time with your primary personal vehicle, then yes, I would agree that depreciation takes a big toll. However, if you do this full time and buy a used car solely for Uber, there is a finite amount of real depreciation that can occur (even a non-running car has scrap value), and barring an engine/transmission failure that makes the car a total loss, you can drive a fully depreciated car for Uber for only the cost of repairs (and gas/insurance).


Agreed I just wish Uber could depreciate at the same rate as our cars do. Put a shelf life on that awesome tech company that said I could have my own business. Lol


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

Buckpasser said:


> Lies , lies and more lies, more lies than on a Golf course F**K Uber


More lies on that same golf course with politicians from every party and their plus 1 brother lawyer.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> If you are doing this part time with your primary personal vehicle, then yes, I would agree that depreciation takes a big toll. However, if you do this full time and buy a used car solely for Uber, there is a finite amount of real depreciation that can occur (even a non-running car has scrap value), and barring an engine/transmission failure that makes the car a total loss, you can drive a fully depreciated car for Uber for only the cost of repairs (and gas/insurance).


Well you see.. your sort of wrong. A vehicle can depreciate down all the way to $480 or less per ton. That's right around where the scrap rates are now.

And if your car needs excessively more than it's worth in repair costs to put back together, you could be looking at as low as a few hundred bucks for something you dropped 15,000+ on.
The last taxi I owned needed a new transmission and front end suspension work, stuff i can't remember out the wing wang, the engine needed rebuilt in the next 50,000 miles or so.

Grand total i would have had to spend $6000 putting humpty toyota dumpty back together again.

And if i did all that it would have been worth $2,000.
Just needing vital mechanical work can knock thousands off what someone is willing to pay for your car.

Or i got a $500 sell now offer from the dealership and i took it. Considering I cleared close to $250,000 over 4 1/2 years i wasn't about to complain.

Some people also only buy new cars, or bought a shiny new car back when rates supported it (and to be honest a monthly car payment is still a lot less than the cost of an uber exchange.

And this was a yellow mini van with taxi on the side that I bought with the sole purpose of using only for business until the thing fell apart.


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