# Why Do People Think We'll Take 4+ Riders?



## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Got a 5 pax ping today, guy got all mad when I said I couldn't take more than 3 pax(i have a Ford Focus, 4 pax car) and he kept saying "Aww, Come on man". Impossible for me to take more than 3 pax, they just will not fit. I explained that it was a safety issue, but he wouldn't listen. How do I avoid this in the future.


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

Why couldnt you take more than 3? You are required to take 4 according to the app.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Always arrive with passenger window down and doors locked. Have conversation long enough to drag out the 5 minute timer, cancel and collect.

Pax dont care if you break the law because they are cheap. Most states require seatbelts and that is one per passenger.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> How do I avoid this in the future.


By taking all four of them like you're required to.

FYI, X is for a maximum of four riders per account holder and Pool is for two. Same goes with Lyft.


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Uberbrent said:


> Why couldnt you take more than 3? You are required to take 4 according to the app.


I have a 4 pax car. .. Can't fit 5 in it(myself +4 pax=5 ppl).

AGAIN, Couldn't take more than 3 others (AGAIN, I have a Ford Focus, it's a safety issue).


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> I have a 4 pax car. .. Can't fit 5 in it(myself +4 pax=5 ppl).


How did you qualify to drive a car with less than five seatbelts?


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Pax Collector said:


> By taking all four of them like you're required to.
> 
> FYI, X is for a maximum of four riders per account holder and Pool is for two. Same goes with Lyft.


But if you can't fit more than 3 pax in your car, kinda hard to do. Isn't that against the law in CA to take more pax than can legally fit?



Pax Collector said:


> How did you qualify to drive a car with less than five seatbelts?


I have 5 seatbelts....but 1 bench seat in the back. 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....youre apparently not familiar with the size of a Ford Focus. I've tried in the past(2nd day) to take 4, wouldn't work.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> But if you can't fit more than 3 pax in your car, kinda hard to do. Isn't that against the law in CA to take more pax than can legally fit?


A ford focus does fit five people.

Were they overweight? Don't get me wrong, I hate four riders as much you do but it's still not the rider's fault.

As far as the law, yes it's illegal if all riders can't be seatbelted, but with your car, they could have been. Unless, again, they were overweight.



UberTrent9 said:


> 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....


Says who? The manufacturer? Ford proudly says their car fits five people safely and comfortably.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> But if you can't fit more than 3 pax in your car, kinda hard to do. Isn't that against the law in CA to take more pax than can legally fit?
> 
> I have 5 seatbelts....but 1 bench seat in the back. 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....youre apparently not familiar with the size of a Ford Focus. I've tried in the past(2nd day) to take 4, wouldn't
> 
> ...


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Pax Collector said:


> A ford focus does fit five people.
> 
> Were they overweight? Don't get me wrong, I hate four riders as much you do but it's still not the rider's fault.
> 
> As far as the law, yes it's illegal if all riders can't be seatbelted, but with your car, they could have been. Unless, again, they were overweight.


Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


Gotcha. Well, in that case, you did the right thing. But my question is, if they were smaller, would you have picked them up?


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Merc7186 said:


> Simply speechless.
> 
> Okay, I will spell this out for you using your own posts:
> 
> ...


Lol. ...im fine with the math, I took 3 and the other got a ride from someone else



Pax Collector said:


> Gotcha. Well, in that case, you did the right thing. But my question is, if they were smaller, would you have picked them up?


Yes, they'd have fit most likely. I don't care what Ford says, no way 3 avg size men can fit in the back, I tried my second day, didn't work.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> Yes, they'd have fit most likely. I don't care what Ford says, no way 3 avg size men can fit in the back, I tried my second day, didn't work.


I guess it all depends on our definition of "Average" 

You can get away with it much easier than me in my Nissan Altima. Hearing my car squeak when four "Average sized" people pile in makes me cringe.


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Pax Collector said:


> I guess it all depends on our definition of "Average"
> 
> You can get away with it much easier than me in my Nissan Altima. Hearing my car squeak when four "Average sized" people pile in makes me cringe.


That's one of the main reasons why I refuse to take 4 or more pax in my car, I'm not about to mess my car up by taking that many people for $5-$6 bucks.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

UberTrent9 said:


> But if you can't fit more than 3 pax in your car, kinda hard to do. Isn't that against the law in CA to take more pax than can legally fit?
> 
> I have 5 seatbelts....but 1 bench seat in the back. 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....youre apparently not familiar with the size of a Ford Focus. I've tried in the past(2nd day) to take 4, wouldn't work.


It's a safety issue in your world but ......









Keep doing what you do it's good for my xl business lol



Merc7186 said:


> Simply speechless.
> 
> Okay, I will spell this out for you using your own posts:
> 
> ...


I'm still confused as I have 5 female and 5 Male seat belts....... and women want equal pay smh


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I've read most of your posts here and the responses. I'm pretty sure you understand that it's, literally a requirement to take 4 riders if they hire you.

Now, you can cancel a ride, at any time, for whatever reason but, if you consistently get reported (or report yourself) for not being able to take 4 riders, they aren't going to buy the argument that you feel it's unsafe. They are just going to deactivate you and they really should.

It's weird that you seem immune to this point.


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## brentb31 (May 23, 2018)

I drive a 2014 focus and do 4 person rides all the time. Cram in or cancel is what I tell em. If they don't want to do either, I shuffle away.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Well, Trent, let's all spell it out for you. P-O-O-L. If you are unwilling to take 4 passengers, simply reject all the X requests that come in and take only pool. The max is 2 riders per request and you can always stop new ride requests after the first pickup. Your fellow LaLa land drivers will also greatly appreciate your commitment to UberPool!


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

UberTrent9 said:


> Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


I understand the post says there were 5 pax, and for that you were right to refuse.

However, keep refusing to take 4 pax trips and you won't be driving long enough for your car to get messed up.

2 reports, and that'll do it. And Uber may not even tell you until they get the 2nd report, so you'll be screwed.

If you really want to limit the amount of riders, only take Pool and turn off further requests. This way there will only be 1-2 pax per ride.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

UberTrent9 said:


> But if you can't fit more than 3 pax in your car, kinda hard to do. Isn't that against the law in CA to take more pax than can legally fit?
> 
> I have 5 seatbelts....but 1 bench seat in the back. 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....youre apparently not familiar with the size of a Ford Focus. I've tried in the past(2nd day) to take 4, wouldn't work.


I checked the specs on your make/model.










Clown car comes to mind.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> Got a 5 pax ping today, guy got all mad when I said I couldn't take more than 3 pax(i have a Ford Focus, 4 pax car) and he kept saying "Aww, Come on man". Impossible for me to take more than 3 pax, they just will not fit. I explained that it was a safety issue, but he wouldn't listen. How do I avoid this in the future.


You are going to have a continual problem. Uber X specifically allows 4 riders, same for Lyft. If you will/can only take 3 you are in for troubles when someone finally reports you to Uber/Lyft. Just saying. On the other hand, if you take 4 and they are all crammed in you are going to have a problem getting downrated from pax. No win in a car that small.


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

All you veteran posters should continue to let the OP decline rides, then Uber drops him from the system and BAM, one less ant on the road stealing our money stupidly.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> For you S-L-O-W-E-R folks:
> 
> I have a 4 pax car. .. Can't fit 5 in it(myself +4 pax=5 ppl).
> 
> AGAIN, Couldn't take more than 3 others (AGAIN, I have a Ford Focus, it's a safety issue).


lol
If you choose to not take 4 riders that's one thing. Your choice.
But your car was disigned to take up to 5 people.
Can't and won't are 2 very different things.



Rushmanyyz said:


> I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I've read most of your posts here and the responses. I'm pretty sure you understand that it's, literally a requirement to take 4 riders if they hire you.
> 
> Now, you can cancel a ride, at any time, for whatever reason but, if you consistently get reported (or report yourself) for not being able to take 4 riders, they aren't going to buy the argument that you feel it's unsafe. They are just going to deactivate you and they really should.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

I have a 2016 Ford Focus I put 4 pax’s in my car no problem. On many occasions I get the group of 5 pax’s and I just tell them no! Just like any other Uber X ride in any car.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


And FINALLY the real reason for your protest is discovered .
It's not the car
It's not the passengers

It YOU and your personal choices.

Bye!


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Lol exactly.



UberTrent9 said:


> Got a 5 pax ping today,


That was a 4 pax ping. 
You're not a pax.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Mole said:


> I have a 2016 Ford Focus I put 4 pax's in my car no problem. On many occasions I get the group of 5 pax's and I just tell them no! Just like any other Uber X ride in any car.


Omg you dont realize a safety risk? Lol


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

UberTrent9 said:


> Got a 5 pax ping today, guy got all mad when I said I couldn't take more than 3 pax(i have a Ford Focus, 4 pax car) and he kept saying "Aww, Come on man". Impossible for me to take more than 3 pax, they just will not fit. I explained that it was a safety issue, but he wouldn't listen. How do I avoid this in the future.


What i do is offer to take 4, and the other guy needs to call a second car, or let them know they can cancel and order XL. Not enough seatbelts, is a legitimate safety issue.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Safety, ha!
As uber drivers we’re all basically walking the plank.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> What i do is offer to take 4, and the other guy needs to call a second car, or let them know they can cancel and order XL. Not enough seatbelts, is a legitimate safety issue.


He only had 4 riders



UberTrent9 said:


> Lol. ...im fine with the math, I took 3 and the other got a ride from someone else


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> If you cant fit 4 pax you should be deactivated.


You're a dangerous unsafe driver lol


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

UberTrent9 said:


> Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


So you are driving a small car as a 6'6" person for a job that requires you to carry up to 4 people?



Kodyhead said:


> You're a dangerous unsafe driver lol


I live in the danger zone


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## x100 (Dec 7, 2015)

I feel slow in a good way, the more I read the more I laughed at the confusion you present; ever tried to put ur legs out the window so you make room for extra person? Ur carbon footprint may need a revision. LIKE I SAID, and AGAIN, you ROCK!



UberTrent9 said:


> For you S-L-O-W-E-R folks:
> 
> I have a 4 pax car. .. Can't fit 5 in it(myself +4 pax=5 ppl).
> 
> AGAIN, Couldn't take more than 3 others (AGAIN, I have a Ford Focus, it's a safety issue).





SuzeCB said:


> If you really want to limit the amount of riders, only take Pool and turn off further requests. This way there will only be 1-2 pax per ride.


What a heavenly advice!!!!! I am imagining the ride, a driver's pulled all the way to the back seat, party split with one pax up front and one in the back.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> If you cant fit 4 pax you should be deactivated.


I don't see how less than 4 pax gets u initial approval


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> I don't see how less than 4 pax gets u initial approval


Car has 5 seatbelts. 
He chooses to not take more than 3.

I don't have a problem with that. It's his car.

The odd thing is that he thinks pax should assume they're not going to be able to fit their group of 4 into a Focus.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Guess who's not wearing a belt










Man, when it happens it happens fast AND you never see it comin'


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> He only had 4 riders


Well, he did say 5. I chose to just offer advice, rather than say, you, who would rather heap derision on a new member.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Uberbrent said:


> Why couldnt you take more than 3? You are required to take 4 according to the app.


Tell me, does adherence to the app rules applies here, but not when people don't want to take pools, groceries, grandparents, or base?

Sounds like some people might want a double standard when you put it like that.

The rules say up to 4 can ride, but i dont think there is any requirement forcing him to.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> Well, he did say 5. I chose to just offer advice, rather than say, you, who would rather heap derision on a new member.


You're right. He did.
Which caused a lot of confusion.

Simply pointing out that the issue of taking more riders than what can legally be taken in a car was never the issue for him as it originally appeared. But you gotta read through the thread to see that.

I've been trying to clear that up for everyone throughout this thread.



UberBeemer said:


> Tell me, does adherence to the app rules applies here, but not when people don't want to take pools, groceries, grandparents, or base?


Unless you know the dude you quoted refused to do the type of rides you mentioned, seems kinda messed up to pin that on him for wanting OP to follow the rules.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

I'm getting a bit confused here between number of pax and number of seats in car. My assumption was that an Uber x car had to seat at least 5 (driver included), which means 4 pax maximum.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> I'm getting a bit confused here between number of pax and number of seats in car. My assumption was that an Uber x car had to seat at least 5 (driver included), which means 4 pax maximum.


OP referred to himself as a pax. That's the main problem.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

There's a valid point, Noe. If people assert that he is required to take 4 pax, but elect to avoid trips they don't like. Double standard.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> There's a valid point, Noe. If people assert that he is required to take 4 pax, but elect to avoid trips they don't like. Double standard.


I have no issue with him not wanting to take 4 people. 
The only issue in this thread is the can't vs won't. 
He made it seem like he can't, when in reality he won't.

I can pick up at grocery stores. I wouldn't say I can't. I simply won't.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

UberTrent9 said:


> I have 5 seatbelts....but 1 bench seat in the back. 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....youre apparently not familiar with the size of a Ford Focus. I've tried in the past(2nd day) to take 4, wouldn't work.


I have a small car myself, similar size to yours. It's not often that I get 4 pax, but when it happens they fit okay, although not ultra comfortable, and make do. If they want extra comfort, they can order XL, SUV etc, next time. I don't see why it's a safety issue if you have enough seatbelts.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> There's a valid point, Noe. If people assert that he is required to take 4 pax, but elect to avoid trips they don't like. Double standard.


I think if he had said in the beggining what he said later, less people would have a problem with it. He has a valid reason I think. 
He just didn't make it clear.



UberTrent9 said:


> That's one of the main reasons why I refuse to take 4 or more pax in my car, I'm not about to mess my car up by taking that many people for $5-$6 bucks.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

UberTrent9 , sorry you got the dogpile on a new member treatment. Welcome to UPN.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Why do humans have mansions while people are dying of starvation? Just how it goes, people (not all) will take whatever they can until they can't. In this case it is one extra person instead of paying for a XL


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> How do I avoid this in the future.


Not sure if anyone actually answered this.
But you can't.

Groups of 4 can and will request you.

Once you realize it's 4 you'll simply have to tell them you can't take them and cancel.

chances are you won't know it's 4 until they start climbing in, which makes it a bit harder for you on the cancel part of it.
Rarely will all 4 be toes to the curb so you can just drive past them.

So good luck with that.


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> UberTrent9 , sorry you got the dogpile on a new member treatment. Welcome to UPN.


That's OK. ..i guess I didn't make clear what I was trying to say, no problem.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> That's OK. ..i guess I didn't make clear what I was trying to say, no problem.


Stick around. 
6'6" dudes come in handy sometimes.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

UberTrent9 said:


> Got a 5 pax ping today, guy got all mad when I said I couldn't take more than 3 pax(i have a Ford Focus, 4 pax car) and he kept saying "Aww, Come on man". Impossible for me to take more than 3 pax, they just will not fit. I explained that it was a safety issue, but he wouldn't listen. How do I avoid this in the future.


Ford Focus had seatbelts for 5, including the driver.

Uber X is for 1-4 passengers.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

UberTrent9 said:


> That's OK. ..i guess I didn't make clear what I was trying to say, no problem.


Just keep in mind that you are 100% wrong if you turn down a 4 rider ping. That is a REQUIREMENT to be approved as an Uber or Lyft driver. The requirement is for a car with 5 seat belts so you can take 4 riders. If you choose not to take MORE than 4, you are 100% in the right and I stand behind you. However, not taking 4 riders and being reported by the rider could cause you problems with Uber.


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## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> Got a 5 pax ping today, guy got all mad when I said I couldn't take more than 3 pax(i have a Ford Focus, 4 pax car) and he kept saying "Aww, Come on man". Impossible for me to take more than 3 pax, they just will not fit. I explained that it was a safety issue, but he wouldn't listen. How do I avoid this in the future.


You can't take them. They need to order uber xl. He knew better


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## MissAnne (Aug 9, 2017)

Hmmm I have a Chevy Sonic, it has 3 full seatbelts in back seat, my car is smaller than yours and I can fit 4 + me in it no problem.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Maximum payload for the Focus is 827 lbs. That's 165.4 lbs per person avg for 5 occupants.
A couple of heifers in the back can easily overload the suspension - never mind 3 slender pax. Don't forget to consider tire load ratings.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Solid 5 said:


> All you veteran posters should continue to let the OP decline rides, then Uber drops him from the system and BAM, one less ant on the road stealing our money stupidly.


*INSTA-VETERAN AWARD!!!!*​


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## gerrardo29 (Jul 9, 2015)

Its 4 plus you , you cant take 5 plus you .. I always wait till they get out theres no way am talking them somewhere . I tell them I migth get a citation


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

X is 1-4 pax. I hate taking 4 pax. I can feel my car struggle with the weight. But I do it cuz that’s what I signed up for. Personal integrity and character will not allow me to refuse a TOS compliant pax.

That said U&L should charge a lil extra for max occupancy. Add that to list those rat effers ought to do!


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## DustyToad (Jan 10, 2018)

Zap said:


> Maximum payload for the Focus is 827 lbs. That's 165.4 lbs per person avg for 5 occupants.
> A couple of heifers in the back can easily overload the suspension - never mind 3 slender pax. Don't forget to consider tire load ratings.


This.

If you are ever deactivated because of complaints of not taking 4 pax this _could_ save you.

It the car is over the vehicle manufacturer weight capacity you could make an argument that the vehicle wouldn't be safe. 
And the car manufacturer will agree with you.

With all of that said U/L can deactivate you for *any* reason they want. That's what you agreed to when you signed up.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> I have a small car myself, similar size to yours. It's not often that I get 4 pax, but when it happens they fit okay, although not ultra comfortable, and make do. If they want extra comfort, they can order XL, SUV etc, next time. I don't see why it's a safety issue if you have enough seatbelts.


It's safety issue cuz usually the 5th seat was designed for a smallish person. Not grown adults. Especially not overgrown big adults. The weight capacity for the tires usually exceed the safety number.

My car has pax weight capacity of 900lbs. I'm using 200lbs of that plus some stuff I have in the car which will bring it up to 230lbs. If I see pax exceeding the weight limit, I will cancel.

Ub


DustyChode said:


> This.
> 
> If you are ever deactivated because of complaints of not taking 4 pax this _could_ save you.
> 
> ...


Uber and Lyft look the other way when it comes to this.


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## wonderfulcarscent (Aug 26, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> That's one of the main reasons why I refuse to take 4 or more pax in my car, I'm not about to mess my car up by taking that many people for $5-$6 bucks.


I get it. In reality your car can't comfortably or safely (I guess?) seat the driver and 4 others. What I'm curious about though, is how you haven't been reported yet for refusing to seat 4 pax on UberX when those of us who do UberX have to be capable of seating 4 pax.


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

I see in a lot of the responses that drivers won’t/can’t take 4 passengers because of a myriad of reasons including load limits of the suspension, unsafe, people are too big, etc. Do you realize that Uber is currently re-evaluating the cars that can be used for the platform? They already have done it for black/suv and those changes go in to effect January 1st. You’re making it easy for them to eliminate your car from the platform when you say that your car can’t handle 4 passengers and they need to order XL.


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

Pax Collector said:


> By taking all four of them like you're required to.
> 
> FYI, X is for a maximum of four riders per account holder and Pool is for two. Same goes with Lyft.


He said 5 though.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Emp9 said:


> He said 5 though.


I was referring to his statement "I couldn't take more than three".


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> Got a 5 pax ping today, guy got all mad when I said I couldn't take more than 3 pax(i have a Ford Focus, 4 pax car) and he kept saying "Aww, Come on man". Impossible for me to take more than 3 pax, they just will not fit. I explained that it was a safety issue, but he wouldn't listen. How do I avoid this in the future.


Avoid what? You got a sweet cancel fee


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

Pax Collector said:


> I was referring to his statement "I couldn't take more than three".


To which u responded by taking all 4. But there was 5. So no that would not solve it


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Emp9 said:


> To which u responded by taking all 4. But there was 5. So no that would not solve it


I stand corrected. Maybe I should respond to posts while sober.


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

Pax Collector said:


> I stand corrected. Maybe I should respond to posts while sober.


In your defense. He should fit 4 he will have issues if four pax get in.


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## darata (Nov 28, 2018)

best post.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> I have 5 seatbelts....but 1 bench seat in the back. 2 in the front + 3 in the back is a safety issue....youre apparently not familiar with the size of a Ford Focus. I've tried in the past(2nd day) to take 4, wouldn't work.


Nonsense! I used to pack 5 into a tiny Prius C. The best ride of all was a Line ride when then there were already 3 pax in the car; a guy in front and two princesses in the back. The final pax to be added was a guy who looked like he had been dragged through a bush backwards - messy ruffled hair, unkempt clothes. He looked like he lived on a park bench. The look on the princesses' faces as we rolled up and he got in was priceless.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> Tell me, does adherence to the app rules applies here, but not when people don't want to take pools, groceries, grandparents, or base?
> 
> Sounds like some people might want a double standard when you put it like that.
> 
> The rules say up to 4 can ride, but i dont think there is any requirement forcing him to.


The examples you cite are in right to refusal requests.... the person in question is accepting rides then screening based on number of paxholes .... he will get deactivated all on his own


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

I think you're thinking of "right of first refusal", which has nothing to do with this. My point is that there is no rule, no more than there's a rule saying you have to take pool.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

UberTrent9 said:


> Well, for 1 thing, I'm 6ft6,so I take up a lot of room as it is, 2 of the 4 were pretty big as well, so it wouldve been pretty hard to fit the 3 in the back, with my seat all the way back as it is. I have a new car, I'm not messing it up hauling 4-5 people in it.


So, and let's be honest here, you are in violation of Ubers contract with you in refusing to take the required 4 passengers because you "don't want to" as per your last sentence.
The passenger did nothing wrong and should report you. Per the passenger app UberX is for up to 4 passengers.



UberBeemer said:


> I think you're thinking of "right of first refusal", which has nothing to do with this. My point is that there is no rule, no more than there's a rule saying you have to take pool.


No they are referring to a common belief that the businesses can "reserve the right to refuse service" .
Love seeing folks that think they can do this just whenever get into legal problems (and dropped from Uber) when they don't allow service dogs (legit ones) or handicapped folks in their cars or businesses.


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## Notch Johnson (Dec 17, 2016)

I have only turned down 4 pax one time in my Prius. They each had a full sized suitcase. I showed them how to order an XL. It was only a three mile ride to the airport so not a lot of $$$$ for them. (Palm Springs is a small town!).


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> So, and let's be honest here, you are in violation of Ubers contract with you in refusing to take the required 4 passengers because you "don't want to" as per your last sentence.
> The passenger did nothing wrong and should report you. Per the passenger app UberX is for up to 4 passengers.
> 
> No they are referring to a common belief that the businesses can "reserve the right to refuse service" .
> Love seeing folks that think they can do this just whenever get into legal problems (and dropped from Uber) when they don't allow service dogs (legit ones) or handicapped folks in their cars or businesses.


I ask you, where in the Uber TOS does it say you have to accept 4? Nowhere that i csn find. The only mention i have seen is you need to be able to fit 4 plus driver. That isn't the same as you must take 4.

By your logic, declining pool would be grounds for deactivation. We all know that's not true.


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> I ask you, where in the Uber TOS does it say you have to accept 4? Nowhere that i csn find. The only mention i have seen is you need to be able to fit 4 plus driver. That isn't the same as you must take 4.
> 
> By your logic, declining pool would be grounds for deactivation. We all know that's not true.


You speak of logic and then say things i dont think make sense. If it says you need to be able to fit 4, then LOGIC dictates that you accept 4. Trying to somehow rationalize different is absurd. One other person has stated an exception of not being able to fit luggage. There is a cancel reason for that in the app.


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## mature423 (Dec 5, 2018)

Please deactivated yourself by uninstalling the app. You do not qualify for ridesharing. Sorry, get a different car where you "feel" "comfortable" taking the required 4 passengers (not including yourself because you are the driver).

You screwed over your passengers out of money because you couldn't provide what was required of you.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> I ask you, where in the Uber TOS does it say you have to accept 4? Nowhere that i csn find. The only mention i have seen is you need to be able to fit 4 plus driver. That isn't the same as you must take 4.
> 
> By your logic, declining pool would be grounds for deactivation. We all know that's not true.


By your logic that also means that it's fine to turn down a 2 pax ride or a 3 pax ride. Uber REQUIRES that you have a car capable of accepting 4 riders. If you don't read that accepting 4 riders in a car capable of accepting 4 riders is built into the TOS then you are clearly capable of interpreting any obligation in any manner that you see fit.
Both Uber and Lyft REQUIRE that you have a car capable of accepting 4 riders. That means that you MUST accept 4 riders. 5+ is a different story and I have ejected those who tried to pile in beyond 4 but never thought twice about taking the rides that every ride share business considers to be standard.
If you don't like it......stop driving. Otherwise, STF up and drive.


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## melotron75 (Apr 11, 2018)

Sounds like you need to get a bigger car if you’re gonna keep doing this job or switch to Uber eats.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Uber REQUIRES that you have a car capable of accepting 4 riders.


See my last remark.



UsedToBeAPartner said:


> That means that you MUST accept 4 riders.


No, it does not. You are mistaken. If you were right, then you must do eats, pools, and express pools.



UsedToBeAPartner said:


> you are clearly capable of interpreting any obligation in any manner that you see fit.


We are all capable of that. But it isnt what i am doing. I am correctly reading the TOS, and not connecting dots that aren't there.


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

I don't have the ability to accept eats, pool, or express. It's not on my app and therefore I don't have to take them. If you have uber X and receive a ping and you accept, there may be 4 pax waiting. If you cancel at that time, what exactly do you use as the excuse without committing fraud? Geez, some people are just ethically challenged or think that rules don't apply to them.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

No, you are not correct. You have simply done an interruption that makes you feel good and believe that somehow Uber is wrong. They are not. The Uber RIDER TOS says that if they call an UBER X, the Uber X will be able carry up to 4 pax. If 4 pax arrive, they have followed the rules and you have not.


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## AnotherUberGuy (Oct 26, 2018)

Uber says that you must have 5 seat belts to drive UberX. Ergo, you must be willing to drive yourself and 4 passengers. There is simply no other way to interpret that, unless you are being purposely obtuse or an extreme devil's advocate.

You don't _have _to take 4 passengers, but you can certainly count on being reported if you don't, and I have to think that after a few of those you will be deactivated.


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

A Ford Focus can fit 3 in the back and 2 up front, it's not a safety issue. A little cramped in the back yes, but safety issue no.


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## Guerosdaddy (Aug 29, 2016)

LMFAO! HANG ON WHILE I GET SOME POPCORN, I HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS TRAIN WRECK ENDS.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> No, you are not correct. You have simply done an interruption that makes you feel good and believe that somehow Uber is wrong. They are not. The Uber RIDER TOS says that if they call an UBER X, the Uber X will be able carry up to 4 pax. If 4 pax arrive, they have followed the rules and you have not.


Show me, in the TOS, where it says you must take 4. You can't because it does not. They want you to. But, they also want you to take pool, pickup groceries, etc.

If the OP feels unsafe with three-across in the back seat, i don't view that any differently from someone griping about a load of groceries.

You guys are using a non sequitur, trying to prove a point in order to justify crawling up his butt. Its no better or worse than refusing a pool ride.

The 4 passenger rule, as expressly stated in the TOS, refers explicitly to the vehicle's qualification for service. As far as i can see, it expresses no requirement to take 4 on every ride, and the fact that he claimed he didn't feel safe is enough reason for him to decline.



AnotherUberGuy said:


> There is simply no other way to interpret that, unless you are being purposely obtuse or an extreme devil's advocate.


Well, you could try a legal interpretation of the language in the contract, rather than a leap from one thing to the other.


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## LyftNewbie10 (Apr 19, 2018)

A month or two ago, there were four (4), medium-to-big guys who wanted a ride in my compact VW Jetta. I explained that I could only take three (3) safely and my car had a 1,075 lb. cargo weight limit. (I know one ride on my previous car killed one of my struts!)

One guy stayed behind and caught a separate Lyft/UBER. I still got a tip.


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## Zebonkey (Feb 2, 2016)

You can cancel all you want and argue semantics, but here:









And if a driver refuses to take four on a regular basis, an eminent deactivation awaits him.
Personally, I would report him.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Zebonkey said:


> You can cancel all you want and argue semantics, but here:
> View attachment 283593
> 
> 
> ...


Better not cancel those pool rides then, eh?

Capacity. Just like I said. You prove my point, thanks.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> Better not cancel those pool rides then, eh?
> 
> Capacity. Just like I said. You prove my point, thanks.


No, no one proved that your incorrect assumption is correct. Everyone is allowed to do as they please but don't twist others words you try to justify violating policy.
It's all good and well until you get the deactivation notification.


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## AnotherUberGuy (Oct 26, 2018)

Agree, at this point we're just pointlessly picking nits. If anyone thinks they're going to win a war of words with Rohit or the GLH, give it a shot and lotsa luck.

Uber cares about two things, itself and the riders. Riders expect you to be able to take 4 pax, and they are going to be annoyed if you pull up and cancel them at curbside, especially if they've been waiting a while, and especially for a reason like "my car is too small". If you are consistently providing this type of experience to riders, then you are going to be deactivated, either explicitly by Uber or implicitly by accumulating too many 1-stars.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

I doubt deactivation is a sure thing over this sort of thing, particularly if OP (rightly or wrongly) claims safety issues. It is more likely a mom with groceries or a minority calling for a pool reporring a driver for shuffling that makes that happen.


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

If a driver correctly or incorrectly continues to claim safety issues with taking 4 pax, Uber will eventually take the make if the car off the platform. They are already reworking the acceptable cars for driving. You make it easy for them to justify your car not being up to a standard for Uber X.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Haven't read the entire thread, but I can see why 4 pax is a safety issue.... even in mid-sized sedans.

I drive an 2013 Acura TL. Very roomy in the back and I get a lot of compliments for it. Fitting 4 pax in (1 in front, 3 in the back) has never been an issue... but there is a safety issue to consider.

The maximum load capacity for my car is 850 pounds. I weigh 250. So if I have 4 pax, combined they have to weigh less than 600. I've given 4 adult men rides before and I'm pretty sure the average weight of each of them was more than 150. If it's just pax, I always let it slide. Being 100 lbs or so over the limit isn't that big of deal to me. But when I show up to 4 adults WITH LUGGAGE, I cancel every time. They always get pissed... ALWAYS!!!! They always say they can make the luggage fit. But fitting it all in is not the issue. It's going well over the load capacity of the car that is dangerous. And I'm sorry that I'm a fatass, and that is party of the problem, but I can't lose the weight in the next minute or so to take you 4 adults and your luggage safely to the airport. It's a cancel.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

I'm not sure why all the drama about "being over load capacity". Just remember to use brakes earlier than usual and you'll be fine. Nothing will happen to the car if you drive for few miles being over load capacity. Hell, I did it with my F-150 all the time when I was remodeling my house.


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## Zebonkey (Feb 2, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> You prove my point, thanks.


No, I don't. 
You can cancel all you want, but if you show up at the pick-up point, your riders are toes on the curb, following all the rules, but you refuse to take them, because there are 4 of them, they might report you.
Do it a few times, get 3 reports, and you will be deactivated.
As I said, I would definitely report the driver.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberTrent9 said:


> I have a new car...


Well that's your first mistake.

I used to drive a Ford Focus. At 6'6" I'm amazed you bought one.

You can refuse based on the weight being over the manufacturers specs, but not for # of pax being 4. However, expect complaints to Uber.

And to answer your original question, they do it because most drivers put up with it.



Syn said:


> I'm not sure why all the drama about "being over load capacity". Just remember to use brakes earlier than usual and you'll be fine. Nothing will happen to the car if you drive for few miles being over load capacity. Hell, I did it with my F-150 all the time when I was remodeling my house.


You're right, but it's not "a few miles" if you do it on a regular basis.

I used to deliver papers. Being overloaded WILL shorten the life of your car if it's done regularly.



Uberbrent said:


> If a driver correctly or incorrectly continues to claim safety issues with taking 4 pax, Uber will eventually take the make if the car off the platform. They are already reworking the acceptable cars for driving. You make it easy for them to justify your car not being up to a standard for Uber X.


It's probably not much of an issue in other countries. We're just fat here.



Uberbrent said:


> If a driver correctly or incorrectly continues to claim safety issues with taking 4 pax, Uber will eventually take the make if the car off the platform. They are already reworking the acceptable cars for driving. You make it easy for them to justify your car not being up to a standard for Uber X.


They're not going to do that. It would be almost every compact/small car.



Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> So, and let's be honest here, you are in violation of Ubers contract with you in refusing to take the required 4 passengers because you "don't want to" as per your last sentence.
> The passenger did nothing wrong and should report you. Per the passenger app UberX is for up to 4 passengers.
> 
> No they are referring to a common belief that the businesses can "reserve the right to refuse service" .
> Love seeing folks that think they can do this just whenever get into legal problems (and dropped from Uber) when they don't allow service dogs (legit ones) or handicapped folks in their cars or businesses.


Per the app it may be, but Uber is NOT going to go on record telling you to take more weight than the car is rated to carry. That's a lawsuit they would lose if there was a wreck because something broke due to the weight.


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## Bpr2 (Feb 21, 2017)

Solid 5 said:


> All you veteran posters should continue to let the OP decline rides, then Uber drops him from the system and BAM, one less ant on the road stealing our money stupidly.


Oh you know he'll only just be replaced by five more.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Zebonkey said:


> No, I don't.
> You can cancel all you want...


In fact, you do. You are just too in love with your own opinion to recognize it. If you can cancel all you want, how could you also get in trouble? You contradict yourself. You haven't shown any evidence of your assumptive position, which is a non sequitur. In other words, one thing doesn't follow the other. Requiring a car to fit 5 people, nor saying an x ride is for up to 4 passengers, is not the same as mandating that a driver Must take 4 pax.

If that were true, you would also be required to make every pickup , even on pool rides, so long as you have enough seat belts.


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

Bpr2 said:


> Oh you know he'll only just be replaced by five more.


Lol... I bought the car because it has excellent leg room for taller people.

Again, Not wanting to wreck my car taking 5 people(not including myself).


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Uberbrent said:


> You speak of logic and then say things i dont think make sense. If it says you need to be able to fit 4, then LOGIC dictates that you accept 4. Trying to somehow rationalize different is absurd. One other person has stated an exception of not being able to fit luggage. There is a cancel reason for that in the app.


Logically unsound argument. My FM radio is capable of playing Taylor Swift and Katy Perry tracks. That does not mean that my radio must play them. Can <> must.

As a matter of fact, when I drove the drunk shift I would _always_ refuse service to groups of four due to the principle that dooshbaggery increases by the square of the number of dooshes allowed into the car.

My car, my rules. It's one of the benefits of being an "independent contractor".


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

However you want to rationalize is fine with me...less drivers on the road eventually.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Uberbrent said:


> However you want to rationalize is fine with me...less drivers on the road eventually.


As 1970s/1980s pop sensation Elton John once said, "I'm still standing".


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## AnotherUberGuy (Oct 26, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> Requiring a car to fit 5 people, nor saying an x ride is for up to 4 passengers, is not the same as mandating that a driver Must take 4 pax.
> 
> If that were true, you would also be required to make every pickup , even on pool rides, so long as you have enough seat belts.


Some folks are getting so bogged down in the minutiae of this, that you don't see the big, practical, picture.

Here is an example that may help (though I doubt it). In front of the gym I go to, there is a parking space that has a blue wheelchair indicia painted on it. I guess they did it when they restriped the lot, dunno. Due to my participation in municipal court jury duty, I am very well versed in the precise definition of what constitutes a properly marked handicap spot. This one is not, because it's lacking several things, but it does have a big blue square painted on it. So, I could in theory park in this space. I might get a ticket from a cop who doesn't know the law and I am 100% certain that I would prevail in the court case. But, why put myself through that pain and torment? It's much easier to just not park in the space.

So it goes with this issue. I have not painstakingly analyzed every word of the Uber TOS and have no plans to. You may be correct, in the most painstakingly constructive interpretation of the language, that you must have 4 seat belts but you are not in fact required to take 4 pax. That isn't going to stop them from reporting you, and that isn't going to stop Uber from potentially deactivating you. Why set yourself up for a potential deactivation? Just get over yourself and take the pax.

Same story with the service dog on another thread. Yes, it is ridiculous and wrong for people to try to do shenanigans with dogs that may or may not be service dogs. Yes, you could deny them and go through all the rigamarole with Uber. Why put yourself through that? Take the damn dog and move on with life.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

AnotherUberGuy said:


> Here is an example that may help (though I doubt it). In front of the gym I go to, there is a parking space that has a blue wheelchair indicia painted on it. I guess they did it when they restriped the lot, dunno. Due to my participation in municipal court jury duty, I am very well versed in the precise definition of what constitutes a properly marked handicap spot. This one is not, because it's lacking several things, but it does have a big blue square painted on it. So, I could in theory park in this space. I might get a ticket from a cop who doesn't know the law and I am 100% certain that I would prevail in the court case. But, why put myself through that pain and torment? It's much easier to just not park in the space.


Not the best analogy I've ever read, if I'm honest. In your analogy it is clear that the intention was to make a handicapped parking space, but that it might be possible to circumvent the intended requirement to not park there because of a technicality. This is unrelated to the current discussion, as there is no requirement (save service animal handlers) for Uber drivers to take any pax or any group of pax, and a driver refusing service to anyone (s)he does not want to serve would not be "getting off on a technicality", but exercising his/her right. So your analogy fits the discussion about as well as $49.99 Walmart suit. You're trying to make it sound like refusing pax is a belaboured technicality, whereas in fact it is a key feature of the independent contractor business model.

You are right that pax could complain to Uber about the driver refusing them. However, Uber states in its terms and conditions that it is ok for drivers to refuse pax they do not feel comfortable or safe driving. I certainly have never heard of anyone being suspended or canned over such a thing.


AnotherUberGuy said:


> Take the damn dog and move on with life.


Regarding service dogs, yes, pax do lie about their animals to UberLyft. What to do as a driver when a fake service animal is presented for transport is a personal choice and I would not tell anyone what to do, and to be honest I'm not sure why you are. However, I personally take a stand and don't buckle/cave. For other drivers, letting the pax dictate how things will be in their own car may be the right choice for them. And that's fine - no judgments.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Pax Collector said:


> How did you qualify to drive a car with less than five seatbelts?


I have a Prius and it has only 4 seatbelt so 5 passengers is a no no unless their hot babes, then I don't care.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Stick around.
> 6'6" dudes come in handy sometimes.


6'6" dudes probably shouldnt have bought a clown car to uber in.



UsedToBeAPartner said:


> By your logic that also means that it's fine to turn down a 2 pax ride or a 3 pax ride. Uber REQUIRES that you have a car capable of accepting 4 riders. If you don't read that accepting 4 riders in a car capable of accepting 4 riders is built into the TOS then you are clearly capable of interpreting any obligation in any manner that you see fit.
> Both Uber and Lyft REQUIRE that you have a car capable of accepting 4 riders. That means that you MUST accept 4 riders. 5+ is a different story and I have ejected those who tried to pile in beyond 4 but never thought twice about taking the rides that every ride share business considers to be standard.
> If you don't like it......stop driving. Otherwise, STF up and drive.


While I agree to an extent, if were allowed to deny a ride due to one person plus a full cart of groceries, we certainly can deny a ride for having 4 people that we dont want to take.


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## chicagolyftpiper (Jun 17, 2018)

The Ford Focus has a hip room of 52 inches in the back. I drive a Honda Fit, which has a hip room of 45 inches in the back and I take groups of 4 all the time. They can see the make and model of the car before I arrive. If they want to cancel, that's up to them. They usually open the door and groan and have to sit real close to each other, but that's not really my problem. If you've got four overweight dudes and you don't want to sit butt to butt, request an XL.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

AnotherUberGuy said:


> Uber says that you must have 5 seat belts to drive UberX. Ergo, you must be willing to drive yourself and 4 passengers. There is simply no other way to interpret that, unless you are being purposely obtuse or an extreme devil's advocate.
> 
> You don't _have _to take 4 passengers, but you can certainly count on being reported if you don't, and I have to think that after a few of those you will be deactivated.


Drivers have discretion. I've denied rides to pax that were too drunk, too aggressive, bad neighborhoods, grocery runs, etc. The TOS is a black and white document, if you have to read between the lines, assumptions are not legally binding.

Legal contracts will explicitly state rules and rule violations. It does not say denying 1-2-3 or 4 pax in an X is in and of itself a violation of the TOS.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> 6'6" dudes probably shouldnt have bought a clown car to uber in.
> 
> While I agree to an extent, if were (should be we're) allowed to deny a ride due to one person plus a full cart of groceries, we certainly can deny a ride for having 4 people that we dont want to take.


You actually are not "allowed" to deny that ride either. Cherry picking can lead to your deactivation as well. To many cancellations will get you in hot water. This is different than your acceptance rate but then you would not know there was someone waiting with a full cart of groceries unless you first accepted, arrived and then cancelled. This is highly frowned upon.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> You actually are not "allowed" to deny that ride either. Cherry picking can lead to your deactivation as well. To many cancellations will get you in hot water. This is different than your acceptance rate but then you would not know there was someone waiting with a full cart of groceries unless you first accepted, arrived and then cancelled. This is highly frowned upon.


Too many cancellations will get you eventually but it doesnt specify cancellations for what. You could have bladder problems or bubble guts and start cancelling every 15 minutes, result would be the same either way. If you can show the provision in the TOS that says one must take everyone and driver has no discretion, I'll digress.


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## Jerryk2 (Jun 4, 2017)

Trade it in for a Mini Cooper, then it'll be ok.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> when I drove the drunk shift I would _always_ refuse service to groups of four due to the principle that dooshbaggery increases by the square of the number of dooshes allowed into the car.


shhhh just saving this one to give me a hardy laugh later.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Uber can deactivate any driver they wish without giving ANY reason, so long as they give that driver 7 days notice. It's in the contract. Section 12.

You can get as technical as you want on whether you "have" to do what Uber wants because it's implied rather than plainly stated, but it's all BS. If they want you gone, you're gone. If their insurance company, either auto or their general liability carrier, wants you gone, you are GONE. And they don't even have to tell you why. Ever. Not even if you sue to try to find out.
..........​
12.2 Termination. Either party may terminate this Agreement: *(a) without cause at any time upon 
seven (7) days prior written notice to the other party;* (b) immediately, without notice, for the 
other party's material breach of this Agreement; or (c) immediately, without notice, in the event 
of the insolvency or bankruptcy of the other party, or upon the other party's filing or submission 
of request for suspension of payment (or similar action or event) against the terminating party. 
In addition, Company may terminate this Agreement or deactivate your Driver ID immediately, 
without notice, with respect to you in the event you no longer qualify, under applicable law or 
the standards and policies of Company and its Affiliates, to provide Transportation Services or to 
operate the Vehicle, or as otherwise set forth in this Agreement.
..........​


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Uber can deactivate any driver they wish without giving ANY reason, so long as they give that driver 7 days notice. It's in the contract. Section 12.
> 
> You can get as technical as you want on whether you "have" to do what Uber wants because it's implied rather than plainly stated, but it's all BS. If they want you gone, you're gone. If their insurance company, either auto or their general liability carrier, wants you gone, you are GONE. And they don't even have to tell you why. Ever. Not even if you sue to try to find out.
> ..........​
> ...


Many services have these kinds of clauses. I think it's rare in practice that such clauses are used in their extreme sense, i.e, to terminate the contract without any cause whatsoever. At the end of the day that isn't usually good PR. The section you posted implies that Uber can terminate the driver contract either a.) Without cause, but with seven days notice, or b and c.) Immediately if there is a violation of the contract by the driver. Or if there is a violation of company and affiliates standards or policies. I've never heard of anyone's account being deactivated with seven days notice so I'm guessing most account deactivations are done under b or c. I.e, because of actual standards violations. I'm not sure if 'standards and policies of Company and its Affiliates' would include things not mentioned specifically in the contract (such as the matter under discussion). I'm obviously no expert, but I'm inclined believe it could.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> Many services have these kinds of clauses. I think it's rare in practice that such clauses are used in their extreme sense, i.e, to terminate the contract without any cause whatsoever. At the end of the day that isn't usually good PR. The section you posted implies that Uber can terminate the driver contract either a.) Without cause, but with seven days notice, or b and c.) Immediately if there is a violation of the contract by the driver. Or if there is a violation of company and affiliates standards or policies. I've never heard of anyone's account being deactivated with seven days notice so I'm guessing most account deactivations are done under b or c. I.e, because of actual standards violations. I'm not sure if 'standards and policies of Company and its Affiliates' would include things not mentioned specifically in the contract (such as the matter under discussion). I'm obviously no expert, but I'm inclined believe it could.


I was waitlisted with 7 days notice for 3-in-3, none my fault. Insurance company decision. They can use it for too many unsubstantiated complaints (pax reports driver is "creepy"), too many cleaning fees, patterns they THINK they MIGHT see to cancellations, or whatever they just don't want to deal with an argument on.

Do they do this on a widespread basis? Kind of. They clean house every once in awhile. I got caught up in a "random background check" just a couple of months after a background check with the SAME info was approved (none my fault, remember?). They had to give me the 7 days because otherwise I might have been able to fight it.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> You can get as technical as you want on whether you "have" to do what Uber wants because it's implied rather than plainly stated, but it's all BS. If they want you gone, you're gone.


On an individual basis, true. On the other hand, the lawsuits show that Uber has been obliged to change its ways when the firings have been egregious/unnaceptable i.e. now there are no more firings for low acceptance rate.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> I was waitlisted with 7 days notice for 3-in-3, none my fault. Insurance company decision. They can use it for too many unsubstantiated complaints (pax reports driver is "creepy"), too many cleaning fees, patterns they THINK they MIGHT see to cancellations, or whatever they just don't want to deal with an argument on.
> 
> Do they do this on a widespread basis? Kind of. They clean house every once in awhile. I got caught up in a "random background check" just a couple of months after a background check with the SAME info was approved (none my fault, remember?). They had to give me the 7 days because otherwise I might have been able to fight it.


Okay, I'd never heard of seven days notice, so I assumed it was usually immediate. I still think it would be very rare in practice for them to deactivate an account without cause completely. But yes, I guess the cover all language of 'without cause' allows them to use their own discretion.



The Gift of Fish said:


> On an individual basis, true. On the other hand, the lawsuits show that Uber has been obliged to change its ways when the firings have been egregious/unnaceptable i.e. now there are no more firings for low acceptance rate.


I'm not 100%, but I believe the acceptance rate matter is a different thing. I don't think they were being told they can't deactivate for acceptance rate. Rather that if they do, they'd have to legally consider their drivers as employees. I suppose that's what you meant by an individual basis. In other words they can fire the individual for low acceptance within his/her contract, but doing so would in a broader sense threaten to classify them as an employer, which is something they don't want.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> Okay, I'd never heard of seven days notice, so I assumed it was usually immediate. I still think it would be very rare in practice for them to deactivate an account without cause completely. But yes, I guess the cover all language of 'without cause' allows them to use their own discretion.
> 
> I'm not 100%, but I believe the acceptance rate matter is a different thing. I don't think they were being told they can't deactivate for acceptance rate. Rather that if they do, they'd have to legally consider their drivers as employees. I suppose that's what you meant by an individual basis. In other words they can fire the individual for low acceptance within his/her contract, but doing so would in a broader sense threaten to classify them as an employer, which is something they don't want.


But that's happening in some states anyway. NJ is supposedly considering them an employer for the purposes of Unemployment Insurance and state disability, but you can be eligible for one of those but only qualify for a payment of $0 because no one paid into it. (Hint: pay into it!)


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## 1974toyota (Jan 5, 2018)

UberTrent9 said:


> I have a 4 pax car. .. Can't fit 5 in it(myself +4 pax=5 ppl).
> 
> AGAIN, Couldn't take more than 3 others (AGAIN, I have a Ford Focus, it's a safety issue).


hey pal, how many safety belts do you have in that car total? 4 or 5 belts? if you only have 4 safety belts, your lucky they approved you? I think the focus has 5 safety belts total,jmo


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