# Operating Tips for New Drivers



## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

It's been awhile since I've been out here and I see there are a lot of new contributors. For our new driving brethren, I post a piece that helped me and will help the new drivers move along the learning curve rapidly...

Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.

• Don't even think about driving until you've purchased a commercial livery insurance policy. That'll run you about $4500 per year so you're going to be doing a lot of driving at first. But you really have no choice in the matter. Your personal insurance company is going to drop you if they learn you're driving for Uber. And the Uber contingent liability policy DOES NOT cover your medical claim or your property claim in the event you are involved in an at-fault accident.
• Dual channel dashcam. Don't ask why. Just get one and install it.
• Never pick up a pax with a rating lower than 4.7. (Jesus, how hard is it to be a 5-star pax? How about not being a ******bag?)
• Never respond to a ping more than 10 minutes away. (Yes, it might be a decent fare, but the odds are against you.)
• If you're traveling, never respond to a ping behind you.
• When you arrive at pickup location and pax is not present, DO NOT call or text the pax. Start a stop watch and cancel at 5:01 and move on. A pax who lacks the basic courtesy of being ready when you arrive is likely not a pax you want in your car in the first place. After all, the pax called YOU.
• For the love of God, NEVER had out gum, candy, mints, water, etc. to paxs. There is no upside, it costs you money, and it creates more mess for you to clean up.
• If a pax leaves something behind in your car. DO NOT make the effort to return it. If you follow Uber's rules it'll actually cost you money and time to return it. If the pax needs it back, he/she will track you down through Uber. When that happens you can negotiate an appropriate fee to return the item. It doesn't matter what the item is - wallet, phone, eyeglasses, event tickets, clothing, jewelry, etc.
• ABC - Always Be Compensated. You're an independent contractor. Don't do anything without being paid. If you wish to run your car as a charity the folks over at Meals on Wheels would love to speak with you.

Some of these items may seem a little harsh to the new driver, but time and experience will show you that these practices not only work, but that they work very well. As a new driver, there's no value in re-inventing the wheel, as it were.​
Hope this helps! And have fun out there.


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## Ben105 (Feb 27, 2016)

On Lyft if you don't attempt to contacts pax you will not get cancellation fee for no shows.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Ben105 said:


> On Lyft if you don't attempt to contacts pax you will not get cancellation fee for no shows.


Yeah, Lyft is different. If the pax is not at the pin drop within 90 seconds, move on and don't look back. Our time is way too valuable for that BS.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> • Dual channel dashcam. Don't ask why. Just get one and install it.​


​I'm looking at dash cams. Most are designed so that the rear camera is placed in the rear window of the vehicle. That's great for video proof of an accident... but what about video that records the pax? Do you recommend one with a rear-window-mounted camera... or one that records the pax compartment?


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> ​I'm looking at dash cams. Most are designed so that the rear camera is placed in the rear window of the vehicle. That's great for video proof of an accident... but what about video that records the pax? Do you recommend one with a rear-window-mounted camera... or one that records the pax compartment?


What you want is a dual-channel style that mounts to the windshield and simultaneously captures the view out the windshield and the view inside the passenger cabin. No need for a rear-window style cam - if you get nailed from behind, it's not your fault anyway in 98% of rear-end collisions. What's of paramount importance is recording what's going on inside the car. I record forward video on one channel, and then video and audio for the cabin-facing camera. If pax's don't like it they are free to cancel and wait for another ride, but that's never happened with me.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Do you have a recommended model?


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## os2wiz (Sep 30, 2015)

I use the Transcend DrivePro 520. Check it out on Newegg or Amazon. About $200., including 32GB micro SD card.


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## tradedate (Nov 30, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> • Never respond to a ping more than 10 minutes away.


This doesn't necessarily apply in suburban areas. 15-17 minutes is a more realistic maximum in certain burbs. 20 is too far.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

tradedate said:


> This doesn't necessarily apply in suburban areas. 15-17 minutes is a more realistic maximum in certain burbs. 20 is too far.


We speak in terms of guidelines, but you get the idea. Never allow Uber or a pax to take advantage and cost the driver money.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

Make a list of grocery stores in the area and know their intersections well. When a request comes in from one of those, ACRO.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> Make a list of grocery stores in the area and know their intersections well. When a request comes in from one of those, ACRO.


Oh man! You said it brother. I learned very early on not to pick up the grocery store people. That's just a waste of our time, money, and effort. I don't play zero sum when I driver U/L.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Oh man! You said it brother. I learned very early on not to pick up the grocery store people. That's just a waste of our time, money, and effort. I don't play zero sum when I driver U/L.


Yup, you're just asking for door dings from the supermarket carts the pax nilly-willy leans up against your car.
Some also get that sense of entitlement sans tip and expect you to unload their groceries. Hell, one pax had me take them groceries to the front door!!

ACRO for everyone new listening means Accept, Cancel, Reason=Other.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Do you have a recommended model?


Many like the Transcend DrivePro 520. I bought my dashcam before that model came out, but if I were buying today, this is the one I'd go with.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Many like the Transcend DrivePro 520. I bought my dashcam before that model came out, but if I were buying today, this is the one I'd go with.


Thanks. Just purchased it on Amazon.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> ...
> • If a pax leaves something behind in your car. DO NOT make the effort to return it. If you follow Uber's rules it'll actually cost you money and time to return it. If the pax needs it back, he/she will track you down through Uber. When that happens you can negotiate an appropriate fee to return the item. It doesn't matter what the item is - wallet, phone, eyeglasses, event tickets, clothing, jewelry, etc.
> ...​


​
Don't agree. Follow Uber's rules when it comes to handling another person's property. If you have something in your possession that does not belong to you, you are treading the line of theft or trover (look it up) charges. Best way is to make sure it doesn't happen in the first place.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> ​
> Don't agree. Follow Uber's rules when it comes to handling another person's property. If you have something in your possession that does not belong to you, you are treading the line of theft or trover (look it up) charges. Best way is to make sure it doesn't happen in the first place.


ABC: Always Be Compensated. Remember, when someone leaves personal items in your car, they have created a problem that they then expect you to solve. And that's OK, just don't do it for free. That is no way to run a business and we are IC's, after all.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Thanks. Just purchased it on Amazon.


You are a wise man. The malnourished desert dweller tips his floppy ears to you!


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> You are a wise man. The malnourished desert dweller tips his floppy ears to you!


Thanks! I appreciate your help.

I live about an hour north of Boston. I don't think there will be much money to be made in my area... unless I drive 30 minutes northwest to University of NH... but the semester is about to end anyway and most of the kids will probably go home for the summer.

I have a regular 8am-5pm M-F job. My plan is to head to Boston every weekday after work. I expect to be home between 11p-12a Mon-Thurs... and stay down there until after the bars close on Fri and Sat (yes, I'll have barf bags). Based on my fuel economy and extremely low maintenance costs (explanation below), I expect my expenses, including fuel, to be about $110.00/week.

My maintenance costs are extremely low because when I bought the car new in 2011, I was driving a lot of miles each year... so I bought the unlimited mileage, bumper-to-bumper warrantee directly from Chrysler. I have a $50 deductible for any repair, and it covers everything except tires, brake pads, rotors, and the serpentine belt (literally everything else is covered). I do my own brakes. I've got 100,000 mile tires that I bought recently. I buy 4-packs of oil changes, pre-paid, from a Chrysler dealership in Florida for $65 (that's only $16.25 per oil change), and the maintenance plan is valid at any Chrysler dealer in North America. I also get free car rentals whenever my car is in the shop, free roadside assistance, etc.

Of course, I can't tell Chrysler that I'm driving for Uber/Lyft.

So, any advice about my plan?


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Thanks! I appreciate your help.
> 
> I live about an hour north of Boston. I don't think there will be much money to be made in my area... unless I drive 30 minutes northwest to University of NH... but the semester is about to end anyway and most of the kids will probably go home for the summer.
> 
> ...


Holy smokes, for a newb it sounds like you have this thing nailed. Way to go on driving as much cost out of the equation as you have. For barf bags, all you need to do is go to your local park and snatch up a half dozen dog poo bags, but be sure to pre-open them so the puking pax doesn't have to fiddle with it while the special delivery is en route.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Holy smokes, for a newb it sounds like you have this thing nailed. Way to go on driving as much cost out of the equation as you have. For barf bags, all you need to do is go to your local park and snatch up a half dozen dog poo bags, but be sure to pre-open them so the puking pax doesn't have to fiddle with it while the special delivery is en route.


I always do my homework. That's why I'm here. I've spent the last couple of weeks reading about Uber/Lyft all over the web. I also got some great advice from the guy who did my Lyft "interview" in Boston.

BTW, the "special delivery" really made me laugh. Thanks.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> ABC: Always Be Compensated. Remember, when someone leaves personal items in your car, they have created a problem that they then expect you to solve. And that's OK, just don't do it for free. That is no way to run a business and we are IC's, after all.


I agree, we should always be compensated. The problem arises when we are not. If you have someone's property, and you tell them "Give me money or I won't give it back to you," you have committed a crime and you face consequences worse than taking a ride and not getting paid. Your decision, but I wouldn't recommend it.

You can tell them to come to you and get it, you can hand it over to the police as abandoned property, or you can ship it COD for the shipping charges, but you cannot keep it, dispose of it, or do anything with it which deprives the person of their property. Like it or not, that's the law.


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## Asquared (May 19, 2016)

I've just been approved to become an Uber driver (never been an Uber or Lyft driver before), but haven't yet picked up my first passenger (or "pax", I guess). First of all, thanks for the tips. Secondly, would you also, in the interest of "profit maximization" (= tracking and recording applicable expenses) advise new Uber drivers to track their mileage via some type of mileage log or app? I'd imagine the answer would be "YES!" As I've read up a bit in other areas of this Forum this afternoon, my question then becomes, which of the following types of mileage should be tracked, and which are deductible expenses for tax purposes:


Mileage driven from home to pick up an Uber passenger (pax) -- record start mileage and mileage upon arriving to pickup pax?
Mileage driven taking pax to destination (this one is certainly a "yes", but doesn't Uber record this via their app? And do they report it to you in any type of report? Or should you track it yourself?)
Mileage driven to any waiting or "staging" area to await the next pax (for example, you pickup a fare downtown, drop them off, then drive to a central area to await next fare)?
Mileage driven from dropping off last pax to home?
Thanks in advance for your replies.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Brian321 said:


> Do you have a recommended model?


Yeah if it's uberx, any rent-a-wreck style car will do.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

Here's some generic unsolicited advice for new drivers.... As a passenger, you always get 5* from me (a fellow driver) unless you do the following:

Call me without reason, i.e. just to see where I'm going or to tell me you're on the way. You may call me to clarify my pickup location (if at a concert venue or mall, etc) or to let me know you're stuck in traffic.
Don't answer if I call/text you
Not validate my name when I get in the car and not validate my destination address once you start ride.

Drive like a maniac/weave in and out of traffic/look at your lap because you don't have a phone mount 
However, you also get dinged for driving 10mph under the speed limit or refusing to pass that old granny putt-putting along for 20 straight blocks
Take a non-GPS suggested route that seems "out of the way" or "racking up additional miles"
Talk on the phone or text at any time during the ride (even at a red light)
Play loud music or rap. Background music is fine. Your rating goes way down if you sing along. Save it for American Idol...
Have any trash on dashboard or floorboards. Also have personal items in seats (front seat excluded if you're discouraging people from riding up front - just FYI Uber X allows up to 4 passengers so in some small cars you have to allow this)
Have strong odors in vehicle. Either from BO, gym bag, or just too much air freshener
Directly ask for tips. However I strongly encourage hinting - just don't flat out ask! It's rude - sometimes I don't have cash and I already feel bad about stiffing you. Your subtle hint or carefully crafted conversation around Uber's tipping policy already reminded me in case I forgot. But please don't straight-up ask.
Talk excessively if I'm obviously busy with my phone or obviously not interested in chatting. You also get dinged for ignoring me or being short if I'm in a talkative mood. Feel out your pax and go with it.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

**Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant or attorney. Use my opinions at your own risk**


*Mileage driven from home to pick up an Uber passenger (pax) -- record start mileage and mileage upon arriving to pickup pax? * This is commuting mileage and not deductible. I track it with my mileage for record keeping, but don't deduct it. It's a grey area if you also claim the "home office" as part of your Uber business as you could claim you're already working. I don't, not worth the audit risk IMO.
*Mileage driven taking pax to destination (this one is certainly a "yes", but doesn't Uber record this via their app? And do they report it to you in any type of report? Or should you track it yourself?). *This is deductible, and Uber records it for you.
*Mileage driven to any waiting or "staging" area to await the next pax (for example, you pickup a fare downtown, drop them off, then drive to a central area to await next fare)? *Deductible. What Uber doesn't track and is also deductible is any mileage driving to staging areas (which I don't recommend doing a lot of - waste of gas) and any mileage en route to pick up passengers while not yet starting a ride (known as Phase 2).
*Mileage driven from dropping off last pax to home? *Same as #1, commuting mileage and typically not deductible. I get around this if I'm far from home by driving to a "staging area" close to home for a bit before going offline and driving home so my commuting mileage is much shorter.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Dback2004 said:


> **Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant or attorney. Use my opinions at your own risk**
> 
> 
> *Mileage driven from home to pick up an Uber passenger (pax) -- record start mileage and mileage upon arriving to pickup pax? * This is commuting mileage and not deductible. I track it with my mileage for record keeping, but don't deduct it. It's a grey area if you also claim the "home office" as part of your Uber business as you could claim you're already working. I don't, not worth the audit risk IMO.
> ...


When I'm online and the car is moving, I'm prepared to conduct business and am moving to conduct business, so the mileage is recorded.

How are you driving from home to pick up a pax unless you have already received a ping? If your going to a waiting passenger it's deductible. If you're going to your waiting area you can be online, if you get a ping that's great.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> I agree, we should always be compensated. The problem arises when we are not. If you have someone's property, and you tell them "Give me money or I won't give it back to you," you have committed a crime and you face consequences worse than taking a ride and not getting paid. Your decision, but I wouldn't recommend it.
> 
> You can tell them to come to you and get it, you can hand it over to the police as abandoned property, or you can ship it COD for the shipping charges, but you cannot keep it, dispose of it, or do anything with it which deprives the person of their property. Like it or not, that's the law.


You are mostly correct. However, it is not against the law for us to be compensated for our time, and that is the thing to remember here, otherwise you open yourself up to get taken advantage of. And that's no way to run a business. There is a significant difference between holding something for ransom and being compensated for you time to return it. I would never say, "Give me money or you don't get your crap back." That'd just be gauche, we will agree. A more appropriate response would be, "Yes, I see you left you digital widget in my car. Can we arrange to meet somewhere so I can return it to you and you can compensate me for my time and fuel?" Let me give you an example of how this played out for me last fall.

A couple got into my car for a long trip to the airport. They were going on vacation to the Chicago area from Phx. About 10 minutes after they exit my car I hear a Fisher Price (iPhone) ringing somewhere in my car. I eventually locate the phone deep under the backseat cushion. It's the woman and she's frantic that she lost her phone, but is now happy that she knows I have it. So, she asks me if I can overnight it to her via FedEx the next day. I agreed. I told her that I would be taking time out of my day job to get it to her and that my day billing rate is $100 per hour as I'm a consultant. I told her I'd only charge her for one-half hour, so $50. At the FedEx office I learned that overnight service before 10am delivery to Chicago would run $42.50. So, I called her back and told her that between FedEx shipping and my time that I would need to collect $92.50. She graciously agreed and provided me with a credit card number that I was then able to run through one of my other businesses. She and her husband were clearly professionals and they knew they were dealing with another professional and that I wasn't going to take advantage of them, but that I needed to be compensated. As a courtesy I included my business card in the package and I got a wonderful thank you card in the mail a few days later.

And that is how you return items left in you car. Don't take advantage of people, but don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of either.

Incidentally, this couple are now clients of my consulting business.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> Yeah if it's uberx, any rent-a-wreck style car will do.


You obviously didn't read the whole thread. I was asking for a recommended model for a dashcam.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Dback2004 said:


> **Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant or attorney. Use my opinions at your own risk**
> 
> 
> *Mileage driven from home to pick up an Uber passenger (pax) -- record start mileage and mileage upon arriving to pickup pax? * This is commuting mileage and not deductible. I track it with my mileage for record keeping, but don't deduct it. It's a grey area if you also claim the "home office" as part of your Uber business as you could claim you're already working. I don't, not worth the audit risk IMO.
> ...


All of the above mileage is tax deductible. You are self employed. Your business miles start the moment when you begin driving toward the place where you conduct business. Your business miles end when you stop driving for said business.

For me, my business miles start when I begin driving toward an area which I believe to have potential riders. My business miles end when I get home.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> All of the above mileage is tax deductible. You are self employed. Your business miles start the moment when you begin driving toward the place where you conduct business. Your business miles end when you stop driving for said business.
> 
> For me, my business miles start when I begin driving toward an area which I believe to have potential riders. My business miles end when I get home.


You sure you're a newb, Brian? You've got this stuff totally down!


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> You sure you're a newb, Brian? You've got this stuff totally down!


I have a unique perspective on tax regulations due to my work in my full time job. That is all I can say for now.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

I suppose I should clarify/elaborate for the benefit of Asquared and users like him/her...

When you are driving from home (or, your "base") to the place where you do business, you can deduct those miles.

You can also deduct the miles from the place where you do business back to your home base.

Here's an example...

John is an Uber driver. He lives 60 miles from a metropolitan area. He drives 60 miles to XXX city every morning. Those 60 miles are tax deductible.

Every mile that John drives after he arrives in ZZZ metropolitan area is tax deductible. Including those without a passenger.

When John quits work for the day and drives back home... those 60 miles are ALSO tax deductible.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

To put it simply...

Track your miles from the time you start driving "for business" until you stop driving "for business."


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Dback2004 said:


> Here's some generic unsolicited advice for new drivers.... As a passenger, you always get 5* from me (a fellow driver) unless you do the following:
> 
> Call me without reason, i.e. just to see where I'm going or to tell me you're on the way. You may call me to clarify my pickup location (if at a concert venue or mall, etc) or to let me know you're stuck in traffic.
> Don't answer if I call/text you
> ...


So as I'm on way to you I'm supposed to answer the phone or read your text, even if it's illegal to do so? Yet God forbid I call YOU unless YOU determine I have a,valid reason?

And if it "seems" I'm taking a long route I'm dinged? You can't ask why? I have taken many "long" routes to get folks out of traffic at events because I know the area and neither they nor I want to sit in traffic for 30 mins.

I'd go on, but you just sound like a terrible pax. Hard to believe you're so demanding when you're also a driver.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

_So as I'm on way to you I'm supposed to answer the phone or read your text, even if it's illegal to do so? Yet God forbid I call YOU unless YOU determine I have a,valid reason?_ If you're using bluetooth which I highly recommend then in most areas it should be legal for you to take my call. If I call it's because I'm trying to save you aggravation of not being able to locate me or getting stuck in traffic in the wrong spot, etc.

_And if it "seems" I'm taking a long route I'm dinged? You can't ask why? I have taken many "long" routes to get folks out of traffic at events because I know the area and neither they nor I want to sit in traffic for 30 mins. _I should clarify - if it seems like you're trying to screw me over/get a higher fare. I always ask my pax if they have a preferred route, or if I'm planning on taking an unusual route (bridge construction is a big deal where I live) I'll give them the option of the longer route or sitting in traffic. I guess what I'm saying is don't pick a longer route assuming I'm going to be happy with that without asking. I've had too many drivers that are unhappy with the Uber rate they tack on extra miles to run up the fare. That's not cool.

_I'd go on, but you just sound like a terrible pax. Hard to believe you're so demanding when you're also a driver. _Actually I would like you to go on. I'm interested in your opinion.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Back to the subject of dash cams... the DrivePro 520 stores approx. 4 hours on a 32GB microSD.

It seems wise (to me) to carry several 32GB microSD cards, and swap them approximately every 4 hours. Then, at the end of the day, save all of the audio/video files to a larger storage device at home (e.g. a 4TB external hard drive), just in case there is some dispute over what actually happened inside (or outside) the passenger cabin.

A 4TB external HDD would be able to save approx 125 32GB microSD cards. That's approx 500 hours. For someone who drives 35 hours/week, that's 14 weeks... or just a little more than 3 months.

I've already ordered two extra 32GB microSD cards (for a max of 12 hours per day).

Am I going overboard here? How long after a ride can a pax report a "problem"?


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## UberHippyChick (Dec 10, 2015)

Y'all are incorrect about the 60 miles driven to an area you work out of. Those are considered commuting miles UNLESS you can receive requests along the entire route and you are logged in and accept any requests you get along the way. This comes directly from my brother who is an IRS auditor. Basically, any miles you drive logged in an area you can get requests or returning from a dropoff in an area where you can not get requests are deductible. You can also count miles from your last dropoff to home if you are logged out and your home is not outside your normal work area.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Brian321 said:


> Back to the subject of dash cams... the DrivePro 520 stores approx. 4 hours on a 32GB microSD.
> 
> It seems wise (to me) to carry several 32GB microSD cards, and swap them approximately every 4 hours. Then, at the end of the day, save all of the audio/video files to a larger storage device at home (e.g. a 4TB external hard drive), just in case there is some dispute over what actually happened inside (or outside) the passenger cabin.
> 
> ...


For most things, a year is good enough. In the case of sexual assault, they have effectively an indefinite amount of time to report it. A skilled faker will wait a long time to report a fake rape, to make sure there is no DNA, no video, no witnesses to be found, nothing but her word against yours which is a hell of a lot better than what she would have if there was tangible evidence. Because of political correctness they will always find a sympathetic advocate in the criminal justice system, no matter how absurd the charge.

But I don't think you need too much data because you don't need great video, just a frame every second or two is enough to prove: she was in the back, you never went in the back, and that you dropped her off and left. That proves nothing happened in the car.

But they're not looking to frame you up, they're looking to sue Uber, so she can claim now you know where she lives and you came back the next night and gave her the business. If you were driving and can prove it, she's screwed (for real.) It's a good idea to not give pax too much information about you, your schedule, where you live and drive etc. for this reason.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

UberHippyChick said:


> Y'all are incorrect about the 60 miles driven to an area you work out of. Those are considered commuting miles UNLESS you can receive requests along the entire route and you are logged in and accept any requests you get along the way. This comes directly from my brother who is an IRS auditor. Basically, any miles you drive logged in an area you can get requests or returning from a dropoff in an area where you can not get requests are deductible. You can also count miles from your last dropoff to home if you are logged out and your home is not outside your normal work area.


Hold on a sec. We're small potatoes operators. No audit is going to split hairs with you on miles. I bought my 2007 Fit new in '06. I use the car for both my businesses and my U/L work. Yes, I also use it for personal errands and pleasure. However, I keep a very detailed log of the miles I drive and the locations I travel to. I never include my personal trips in the log. Instead, just pad your business trips. There's no way to prove otherwise. Now here's the truly beautiful part. I paid $18,000 for the car new. I have claimed every mile on the car as business miles and I have the logs to prove it. The car now has 170,000 on it as of Saturday. At an average mileage allowance of $.50 per mile since 2006, I have been able to claim $65,000 in expenses against my taxes. Not bad for a car that I didn't pay $20k for. And it certainly hasn't cost me $65k to operate the car.
Folks, do yourselves a favor: Keep a mileage log in you car...AND USE IT! And don't be shy about getting a little bit creative. There is virtually no risk.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Hold on a sec. We're small potatoes operators. No audit is going to split hairs with you on miles. I bought my 2007 Fit new in '06. I use the car for both my businesses and my U/L work. Yes, I also use it for personal errands and pleasure. However, I keep a very detailed log of the miles I drive and the locations I travel to. I never include my personal trips in the log. Instead, just pad your business trips. There's no way to prove otherwise. Now here's the truly beautiful part. I paid $18,000 for the car new. I have claimed every mile on the car as business miles and I have the logs to prove it. The car now has 170,000 on it as of Saturday. At an average mileage allowance of $.50 per mile since 2006, I have been able to claim $65,000 in expenses against my taxes. Not bad for a car that I didn't pay $20k for. And it certainly hasn't cost me $65k to operate the car.
> Folks, do yourselves a favor: Keep a mileage log in you car...AND USE IT! And don't be shy about getting a little bit creative. There is virtually no risk.


I myself keep a "book of lies" in my car, in which I record time in, time out, miles in, miles out. If I'm online, the miles are logged.

If you want to keep it legal, there are things you can do to run up your miles. Depending on your tax bracket and vehicle deadhead miles can be slightly profitable. But you can't show a loss on small biz income too many years in a row.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> I myself keep a "book of lies" in my car, in which I record time in, time out, miles in, miles out. If I'm online, the miles are logged.
> 
> If you want to keep it legal, there are things you can do to run up your miles. Depending on your tax bracket and vehicle deadhead miles can be slightly profitable. But you can't show a loss on small biz income too many years in a row.


Correct. I never show a loss in my businesses. I also have a hobby car that I keep in the garage - my hotrod. Even though I drive it infrequently, I can always say my personal miles go on the hotrod and my biz miles go on the Fit. But I've never been challenged and my tax CPA says my mileage logs are rock solid.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

UberHippyChick said:


> Y'all are incorrect about the 60 miles driven to an area you work out of. Those are considered commuting miles UNLESS you can receive requests along the entire route and you are logged in and accept any requests you get along the way. This comes directly from my brother who is an IRS auditor. Basically, any miles you drive logged in an area you can get requests or returning from a dropoff in an area where you can not get requests are deductible. You can also count miles from your last dropoff to home if you are logged out and your home is not outside your normal work area.


I disagree with your brother, but I also intend to be in "driver mode" for my entire 60 mile drive to and from Boston. Here is a quote from an article on The Motley Fool (whom I trust more than your brother):

Oct 31, 2015 at 9:23PM
If you use your own vehicle for business purposes, you may be able to deduct a percentage of your driving-related expenses from your taxable income. To do so, you'll need to keep an accurate record of your business-related driving and activities.

*Qualifying mileage deductions*
The IRS has specific rules in place as to what types of business driving are eligible for a mileage deduction. Your daily commute from your home to your permanent work location does not qualify for a business mileage deduction. On the other hand, if you need to travel to a second company location that is not your primary office, you may be able to deduct your mileage costs.

You can also take a mileage deduction for travel to and from business conferences, off-site meetings, and business-related events, including lunches or dinners with current or prospective customers. You can also deduct your mileage if you travel to visit customers or use your vehicle to run business-related errands, such as obtaining supplies or getting documents notarized.

*Keeping a mileage log*
The IRS tends to be strict in its documentation requirements for business mileage deductions. For this reason, you'll need to keep a thorough, accurate mileage log each year you attempt to claim a deduction.

Your mileage log must include the starting mileage on your vehicle's odometer at the beginning of the year and its ending mileage at the conclusion of the year. Each time you use your vehicle for business purposes, you must record the following information:


The date of your trip
Your starting point
Your destination
The purpose of your trip
Your vehicle's starting mileage
Your vehicle's ending mileage
Tolls or other trip-related costs
You can keep a mileage log in a notebook and update it by hand, or use a spreadsheet to continuously track your mileage. You can also use a mileage-tracking app. The key is to update your records regularly to ensure that they're precise. Additionally, the IRS requires you to keep your mileage log for three years from the date on which you file the income tax return containing your deduction.

*Calculating your deductions*
You have two options for claiming your business mileage deduction: You can use the standard mileage rate as determined by the IRS, or you can deduct your actual expenses.

If you use the standard mileage rate, you take a preset deduction for every mile you drive for business purposes. The IRS establishes a standard mileage rate each year. For 2015, the rate is 57.5 cents per mile. If you drive 2,000 miles for business purposes in 2015, using the standard mileage rate, you'd claim $1,150 as a deduction on your taxable income.

When you use the standard mileage rate, you cannot deduct any other vehicle operating expenses, including repairs, maintenance, and registration fees. All of these items, including depreciation on your vehicle, are factored into the IRS's standard mileage rate.

To deduct your actual expenses, you'll need to keep a thorough record of all vehicle-related costs, including standard maintenance and repairs. From there, you'll need to determine what percentage of your total mileage qualifies as eligible business mileage and then deduct that percentage on your taxes. If your vehicle-related expenses equal $4,000 in 2015 and 50% of your total mileage qualifies as business mileage, you can deduct $2,000 from your taxable income.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

The key phrase in my previous post, is this sentence: "Your daily commute from your home to your permanent work location does not qualify for a business mileage deduction."

We, as drivers, do not have a PERMANENT work location. By definition, our "work location" is wherever we happen to be, while sitting in the driver's seat of our vehicle.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

On the subject of logging our miles: The IRS likes to see starting/ending mileage. I am/was planning to use the SherpaShare app to track my business miles. However, that app doesn't seem to have a mechanism for entering start/stop mileage from the odometer.

What do you think about that? Should I just use a paper log instead?

I like the "heat maps" in Sherpashare. That, to me, seems to be the most valuable aspect of the app. It's not a big deal to keep paper logs... as long as the log contains the minimum required information per the IRS... 

The date of your trip
Your starting point
Your destination
The purpose of your trip
Your vehicle's starting mileage
Your vehicle's ending mileage
Tolls or other trip-related costs


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> For most things, a year is good enough. In the case of sexual assault, they have effectively an indefinite amount of time to report it. A skilled faker will wait a long time to report a fake rape, to make sure there is no DNA, no video, no witnesses to be found, nothing but her word against yours which is a hell of a lot better than what she would have if there was tangible evidence. Because of political correctness they will always find a sympathetic advocate in the criminal justice system, no matter how absurd the charge.
> 
> But I don't think you need too much data because you don't need great video, just a frame every second or two is enough to prove: she was in the back, you never went in the back, and that you dropped her off and left. That proves nothing happened in the car.
> 
> But they're not looking to frame you up, they're looking to sue Uber, so she can claim now you know where she lives and you came back the next night and gave her the business. If you were driving and can prove it, she's screwed (for real.) It's a good idea to not give pax too much information about you, your schedule, where you live and drive etc. for this reason.


Wow, I never even considered an allegation of rape. Do you have a recommended Windows program that can be used to extract a frame from each 1-second increment of cabin video?


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

I received my new DrivePro 520 today. It's a lot smaller than I expected. I installed it (with the adhesive mount), and took it for a test drive.

The video looks great on my 64" plasma TV.  It's a little grainy in low light, but definitely good enough to prove the actions of pax and whomever/whatever is outside, and in front of the vehicle.

The built-in IR LED's don't illuminate the entire cabin... so I plan to purchase a few additional IR LED's in the 850nm spectrum, and install them in strategic locations inside the cabin so that everything will be fully illuminated. I have a degree in electronics... so it will be easy for me.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Transcend also makes a body cam, the DrivePro Body 10. Does anyone have an opinion about wearing a body cam for personal protection while outside the car?


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

In regards to capturing an image each 1 second of video, it looks like ffmpeg will do it. ffmpeg is an old standby in the world of HTPC's... a world in which I am intimately familiar.

Here's an article...

http://superuser.com/questions/9377...at-at-exactly-every-minute-or-second-from-a-v


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Brian321 said:


> In regards to capturing an image each 1 second of video, it looks like ffmpeg will do it...
> 
> http://superuser.com/questions/9377...at-at-exactly-every-minute-or-second-from-a-v


That's the idea. If there's an accident, or a crime against you having detailed video is worthwhile but you are going to save that SD card as it is, as it will show _exactly what happened._

A frame a second is enough to show _that something didn't happen._ Big difference. It also shows who was (and wasn't) in your car. There's an old story, about an accident involving a city bus, bus capacity is 50, when the ambulance gets there they find 200 people laying on the ground holding their necks. Being only the passenger using the app has a record and they can bring anyone they want with them, you could have a problem and someone you've never seen in your life can say they were in the car, can't prove they weren't without a dashcam.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

UberHippyChick said:


> Y'all are incorrect about the 60 miles driven to an area you work out of. Those are considered commuting miles UNLESS you can receive requests along the entire route and you are logged in and accept any requests you get along the way. This comes directly from my brother who is an IRS auditor. Basically, any miles you drive logged in an area you can get requests or returning from a dropoff in an area where you can not get requests are deductible. You can also count miles from your last dropoff to home if you are logged out and your home is not outside your normal work area.


Look, it's simple - if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. Padded mileage logs are one of the most foolproof ways to reduce your tax liability.
That being said, your brother is clearly incorrect. Brian321 summed it up very well above and he is correct.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> I received my new DrivePro 520 today. It's a lot smaller than I expected. I installed it (with the adhesive mount), and took it for a test drive.
> 
> The video looks great on my 64" plasma TV. It's a little grainy in low light, but definitely good enough to prove the actions of pax and whomever/whatever is outside, and in front of the vehicle.
> 
> The built-in IR LED's don't illuminate the entire cabin... so I plan to purchase a few additional IR LED's in the 850nm spectrum, and install them in strategic locations inside the cabin so that everything will be fully illuminated. I have a degree in electronics... so it will be easy for me.


You rock!


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Look, it's simple - if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. Padded mileage logs are one of the most foolproof ways to reduce your tax liability.
> That being said, your brother is clearly incorrect. Brian321 summed it up very well above and he is correct.


You really shouldn't post about cheating on your taxes. The IRS could use your internet posts against you.

You should post a disclaimer... like... "If I was a cheat, I would do XXX."

Kinda like, "If I was a betting man (which I'm NOT, because I believe that betting is a sin)... I would bet that... (fill in the blank)"


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> You rock!


Thank you. I truly appreciate your input. I can learn a lot from you.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> You really shouldn't post about cheating on your taxes. The IRS could use your internet posts against you.
> 
> You should post a disclaimer... like... "If I was a cheat, I would do XXX."
> 
> Kinda like, "If I was a betting man (which I'm NOT, because I believe that betting is a sin)... I would bet that... (fill in the blank)"


Not a chance. I proxy all my connections when I get on forums. My posts probably look like I'm connecting from a brothel in Lithuania. But thanks for your concern. I'm a network engineer so this is simple tricks for me, but others will definitely do well to heed your cautions.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Not a chance. I proxy all my connections when I get on forums. My posts probably look like I'm connecting from a brothel in Lithuania. But thanks for your concern. I'm a network engineer so this is simple tricks for me, but others will definitely do well to heed your cautions.


Well then!

I only use TOR in certain circumstances which might affect my future. This isn't one of them.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I keep thinking i'm seeing the "desert driver". Must be an oasis in the desert.


Hmmm???


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Well then!
> 
> I only use TOR in certain circumstances which might affect my future. This isn't one of them.


I tend to shoot my mouth off here more than I do in analog life. I've incriminated myself a number of times, I'm pretty sure. I know I do on the Fox News forum site. But it's just too dang much fun f***ing with those folks.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> I tend to shoot my mouth off here more than I do in analog life. I've incriminated myself a number of times, I'm pretty sure. I know I do on the Fox News forum site. But it's just too dang much fun f***ing with those folks.


It seems that you and I might get along very well.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Inciting literary "violence" among the Faux News crowd is pretty easy... and fun.

Trump just keeps adding to the fun.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Correct. I never show a loss in my businesses. I also have a hobby car that I keep in the garage - my hotrod. Even though I drive it infrequently, I can always say my personal miles go on the hotrod and my biz miles go on the Fit. But I've never been challenged and my tax CPA says my mileage logs are rock solid.


Most businesses show a loss in the first few years of operation. I agree with your use of a second vehicle in order to show personal miles. However, I don't think that the IRS will question a LOSS in the first year or two of a new business.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Hmmm???


Some months ago there was a guy out here with the same avatar, same disposition, same sense of humor, and same irreverence as Hunt to Eat. Oddly, he also drives the same make and model car when he drives Uber. But this guy's name was Desert Driver. Seems Desert Driver got crossways with someone here and he was banished to the wilderness forever. Some say he disappeared and died. Others suggest he may have morphed into a contributor bearing the identical avatar but with a name that would never betray his former identity. The line between legend and fact is blurry at best. Now our friend ChortlingCrison has an active imagination and rapier wit and he seems quite certain Desert Driver and Hunt to Eat are the same person. We may never find that line between fact and fantasy. And alas, we will never know if DD and HtE are one and the same.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Most businesses show a loss in the first few years of operation. I agree with your use of a second vehicle in order to show personal miles. However, I don't think that the IRS will question a LOSS in the first year or two of a new business.


Both of my businesses have been in operation for more than 10 years. Uber pays me through my consulting firm which has been profitable for better than a decade, so I simply fold the 1099 wages from Uber into the other 1099 fees I earn. At the end of the year I end up with a few dozen 1099-MISC forms, including the Uber doco.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Inciting literary "violence" among the Faux News crowd is pretty easy... and fun.
> 
> Trump just keeps adding to the fun.


If you spend time out on Faux News, look for the floppy eared desert dweller.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

I thought it was the "desert driver" not desert dweller.


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## Tahquitz (May 13, 2016)

People forget thing, shit happens...you are a jerk if you require to "negotiating a fee" to return a lost item. That's some great customer service right there.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Some months ago there was a guy out here with the same avatar, same disposition, same sense of humor, and same irreverence as Hunt to Eat. Oddly, he also drives the same make and model car when he drives Uber. But this guy's name was Desert Driver. Seems Desert Driver got crossways with someone here and he was banished to the wilderness forever. Some say he disappeared and died. Others suggest he may have morphed into a contributor bearing the identical avatar but with a name that would never betray his former identity. The line between legend and fact is blurry at best. Now our friend ChortlingCrison has an active imagination and rapier wit and he seems quite certain Desert Driver and Hunt to Eat are the same person. We may never find that line between fact and fantasy. And alas, we will never know if DD and HtE are one and the same.


Many moons ago, a person who went by the handle "barnabas1969" got banned from a popular forum which focuses on issues relating to Home Theater PC's (HTPC). He got banned for challenging one of the moderators. It is rumored that he has reappeared under a new handle... still challenging the moderator. Who knows???


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> If you spend time out on Faux News, look for the floppy eared desert dweller.


Only when I want to stir the beehive!


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I wonder if that was the desert driver. I sense his presence near-by. He always loved using the road runner avatar.


I don't know about the desert driver. But... I can say this...

I am using my actual photo. How about you?


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Tahquitz said:


> People forget thing, shit happens...you are a jerk if you require to "negotiating a fee" to return a lost item. That's some great customer service right there.


I agree. Return people's possessions. But, if it requires us to go out of our way... we should be compensated. At the very least, the drive from our current location to the drop-off of said item should be paid as if we were transporting a passenger.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Tahquitz said:


> People forget thing, shit happens...you are a jerk if you require to "negotiating a fee" to return a lost item. That's some great customer service right there.


Again, and I can't overstate this, never take advantage of a person is need. On the other hand, never allow yourself to be take advantage of. We're IC's working for minimum wage or slightly more, so there is plenty of room for us to be taken advantage of. I run a couple other businesses outside of driving for U/L, so I understand with crystal clarity that there is an incredibly fine line between fair compensation and gouging, but I have found that balance and my paxs have always been grateful for having items returned at a fair rate. If my time were free and if miles on my care were free, I would be agreeing with you 100%, Tahquitz, but because time isn't free and miles are not free, you're doing a poor job of running your private little driving enterprise. That's up to you, of course, but I run ALL my businesses in a way that I deliver value to my clients and I earn the rewards I am due for those efforts. Your notion of providing free return of items is cute and noble, of course, but not sustainable or profitable in the long run.
You've got to remember one rule when you are an IC: No one's time is more valuable than yours. *No one's*! To carry any other attitude means you're not maximizing profit, which is why we all became IC's in the first place.
For what It's worth, my driver rating hasn't dipped below 4.96 in over a year, so I have to assume I'm doing this thing properly.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I thought it was the "desert driver" not desert dweller.


As I recall, Desert Driver was the fellow's handle, but because he lived somewhere in the Southwest, he would oft refer to himself as a desert dweller.


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## UberHippyChick (Dec 10, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Look, it's simple - if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. Padded mileage logs are one of the most foolproof ways to reduce your tax liability.
> That being said, your brother is clearly incorrect. Brian321 summed it up very well above and he is correct.


Are you fricking kidding me? You expect me to believe some random person on the internet over my brother who is a small business IRS auditor? Go ahead and try to cheat on your taxes. The IRS will wait a few years until you are really making some money then hit you with penalties, interest and possibly criminal fraud charges.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

UberHippyChick said:


> Are you fricking kidding me? You expect me to believe some random person on the internet over my brother who is a small business IRS auditor? Go ahead and try to cheat on your taxes. The IRS will wait a few years until you are really making some money then hit you with penalties, interest and possibly criminal fraud charges.


Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. We just don't believe your brother is providing you with competent advice. Remember, documentation is your most powerful tool in an audit. And mine is rock solid. It's no big deal to stretch your mileage log by a few (and I do mean a few) miles each month.
Now that we have that cleared up, are we good here?


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## UberHippyChick (Dec 10, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> I disagree with your brother, but I also intend to be in "driver mode" for my entire 60 mile drive to and from Boston. Here is a quote from an article on The Motley Fool (whom I trust more than your brother):
> 
> Oct 31, 2015 at 9:23PM
> If you use your own vehicle for business purposes, you may be able to deduct a percentage of your driving-related expenses from your taxable income. To do so, you'll need to keep an accurate record of your business-related driving and activities.
> ...


There are different rules if you do not have a permanent work location. In that case your work location is the metropolitan area you primarily work out of and driving to that area is considered commuting miles. Trust me, when I started doing this my brother researched everything he could about how the IRS handles these types of returns. In addition to being an Uber driver I am also an Enrolled Agent tax preparer. Those of you who think you can get away with fudging your documentation have never dealt with the IRS or an audit. They will wait a few years until the amount of tax due plus interest and penalties is worth going after. I'm just trying to save people a headache down the line, you want to cheat fine but for people who want real accurate information I urge you to consult with an ethical accountant or tax preparer.


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## UberHippyChick (Dec 10, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. We just don't believe your brother is providing you with competent advice. Remember, documentation is your most powerful tool in an audit. And mine is rock solid. It's no big deal to stretch your mileage log by a few (and I do mean a few) miles each month.
> Now that we have that cleared up, are we good here?


You weren't saying a few. You were saying a 60 mile commute daily which adds up to roughly to $2500 a year in reduced taxes. Two to three years of this with added interest and penalties could wind up costing you $10,000+ plus the hassle of having to deal with an audit. It's one of the first things they will look at if you are audited since so many people try to claim it. Plus if they catch you on that they're going to scrutinize every other thing. Like I said, you want to cheat, go ahead. But unless you have significant experience dealing with the IRS please don't give other people the impression that they can get away with it. 
I'm not trying to have an argument with you or dis you in any way. I'm just trying to provide information to other drivers who actually want to follow the rules so they don't have to worry about it coming back on them later.


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> It's been awhile since I've been out here and I see there are a lot of new contributors. For our new driving brethren, I post a piece that helped me and will help the new drivers move along the learning curve rapidly...
> 
> Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.
> 
> ...


What a horrible list of advice. I disagree with almost all of it.


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## os2wiz (Sep 30, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Back to the subject of dash cams... the DrivePro 520 stores approx. 4 hours on a 32GB microSD.
> 
> It seems wise (to me) to carry several 32GB microSD cards, and swap them approximately every 4 hours. Then, at the end of the day, save all of the audio/video files to a larger storage device at home (e.g. a 4TB external hard drive), just in case there is some dispute over what actually happened inside (or outside) the passenger cabin.
> 
> ...


I've been using the DrivePro 520 for a couple of months. I, too, have considered backup options. I have 7 SD cards, but am curious about how you plan to transfer all that data to a hard drive. It takes a significant amount of time, which I hesitate to spend.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

naplestom75 said:


> What a horrible list of advice. I disagree with almost all of it.


In time and with more experience you will see the wisdom of this approach. This list has served many new drivers very well and it has been serving me well for two years. My driver rating has not dipped below 4.96 in the past year, so the list obviously has merit. But as an IC you're free to adopt whatever tactics and strategies serve you well. But as a service to my brethren drivers, I share this list often and I regularly receive sincere thanks. If you choose not to accept and integrate proven methods, more power to ya. I, on the other, run a couple businesses outside of U/L driving, so I have learned how to operate at maximum efficiency, which leads to maximization of profit, of course. But this is just the voice of experience, not empirical inquiry.
Uber on, my friend!


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Rehash Thursday is when he is missed the most, or could that be sacto--barbs with the yellow Chinese umbrella.


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## PS523 (May 17, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> It's been awhile since I've been out here and I see there are a lot of new contributors. For our new driving brethren, I post a piece that helped me and will help the new drivers move along the learning curve rapidly...
> 
> Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.
> 
> ...


Not harsh at all. Only been driving for a month but I agree with all of your points. 
Thx


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberHippyChick said:


> There are different rules if you do not have a permanent work location. In that case your work location is the metropolitan area you primarily work out of and driving to that area is considered commuting miles. Trust me, when I started doing this my brother researched everything he could about how the IRS handles these types of returns. In addition to being an Uber driver I am also an Enrolled Agent tax preparer. Those of you who think you can get away with fudging your documentation have never dealt with the IRS or an audit. They will wait a few years until the amount of tax due plus interest and penalties is worth going after. I'm just trying to save people a headache down the line, you want to cheat fine but for people who want real accurate information I urge you to consult with an ethical accountant or tax preparer.


 How on earth do they decide where you "primarily work out of"? I live 20 miles outside of Houston, but have picked up people from my same subdivision going into Houston. In fact, eventually if you work out here, someone will always head to Houston. I've also ended up in various other towns around Houston, which is VERY spread out. Most times you really have no idea if you're still in Houston or not. So what constitutes a "metropolitan area"? If you want to look at a map, I live in Sugar Land.

Most trips ARE in the center, and some days I can drive in and get no trips, other days I get pinged from my house immediately, before even leaving.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

PS523 said:


> Not harsh at all. Only been driving for a month but I agree with all of your points.
> Thx


naplestom75 certainly doesn't agree with you and me.

I remember my papa's advice to me when I first became a consultant. He said, "Hunt to Eat, you can't force people to take good advice. But you'll be amazed at how often they'll accept really bad advice."


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How on earth do they decide where you "primarily work out of"? I live 20 miles outside of Houston, but have picked up people from my same subdivision going into Houston. In fact, eventually if you work out here, someone will always head to Houston. I've also ended up in various other towns around Houston, which is VERY spread out. Most times you really have no idea if you're still in Houston or not. So what constitutes a "metropolitan area"? If you want to look at a map, I live in Sugar Land.
> 
> Most trips ARE in the center, and some days I can drive in and get no trips, other days I get pinged from my house immediately, before even leaving.


Excellent points. Those of us who have been at this awhile or who are proficient with keeping mileage logs know that you record your mileage when you get in your car in the morning, and then you record your mileage when you return home. All that's left to do is fill in where you went. And if you're driving Uber/Lyft, all you need to say is "Uber and Lyft driving" in the description of your miles. This isn't rocket science. It doesn't need to be made more complicated than it is. Some commenters here seem to imply there is a certain science involved here. There's not. Beginning odometer reading...ending odometer reading...description. End of story.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

UberHippyChick said:


> There are different rules if you do not have a permanent work location. In that case your work location is the metropolitan area you primarily work out of and driving to that area is considered commuting miles. Trust me, when I started doing this my brother researched everything he could about how the IRS handles these types of returns. In addition to being an Uber driver I am also an Enrolled Agent tax preparer. Those of you who think you can get away with fudging your documentation have never dealt with the IRS or an audit. They will wait a few years until the amount of tax due plus interest and penalties is worth going after. I'm just trying to save people a headache down the line, you want to cheat fine but for people who want real accurate information I urge you to consult with an ethical accountant or tax preparer.


Ooooh... you're a "tax preparer". Excuse me if I don't faint. So, you went through a 1-2 day course to prepare you to... well... prepare tax returns. Wow.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

os2wiz said:


> I've been using the DrivePro 520 for a couple of months. I, too, have considered backup options. I have 7 SD cards, but am curious about how you plan to transfer all that data to a hard drive. It takes a significant amount of time, which I hesitate to spend.


I don't think it will take too much time to select a bunch of files, and then drag-and-drop them to an HDD. I can go to bed while the transfer is taking place.

It wouldn't be too difficult to create an automated process. Umm... automation of IT processes is what I do for a living. I could pretty easily create a process where I plug all of my SD cards into a PC... and the automated process copies the correct files from the SD cards... and deletes files that are older than X days. I could even automate the process of running ffmpeg to capture 1-second intervals of the rear cam videos.


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## UberHippyChick (Dec 10, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Ooooh... you're a "tax preparer". Excuse me if I don't faint. So, you went through a 1-2 day course to prepare you to... well... prepare tax returns. Wow.


I'm an enrolled agent, and the fact that you don't even know what that is shows how much you know about tax preparation.


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## UberHippyChick (Dec 10, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How on earth do they decide where you "primarily work out of"? I live 20 miles outside of Houston, but have picked up people from my same subdivision going into Houston. In fact, eventually if you work out here, someone will always head to Houston. I've also ended up in various other towns around Houston, which is VERY spread out. Most times you really have no idea if you're still in Houston or not. So what constitutes a "metropolitan area"? If you want to look at a map, I live in Sugar Land.
> 
> Most trips ARE in the center, and some days I can drive in and get no trips, other days I get pinged from my house immediately, before even leaving.


If you live in an area that is not served by rideshare and you drive into a nearby large city to work, that city is the area you "primarily work out of." There are lots of drivers in this situation, they live in suburbs or small towns and commute to a larger city to work. In your case since you can receive calls from your house you're good.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Kids, kids, kids - come on. This isn't an issue worth getting riled up over and making ugly comments. We're all friends here and we should treat our driving brethren with dignity, honor, and respect.


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> naplestom75 certainly doesn't agree with you and me.
> 
> I remember my papa's advice to me when I first became a consultant. He said, "Hunt to Eat, you can't force people to take good advice. But you'll be amazed at how often they'll accept really bad advice."


I actually agree with some of it, I was a bit harsh in my first assessment.

But I don't agree with being that picky over the rider's rating, there are reasons they might be at or below 4.7 that might not translate to them being a bad experience for you. The livery insurance advice is not really even advice, it's an opinion, it all depends on what you feel you have to lose or gain from spending or not spending $4,500. Taking rides behind you can easily be feasible in some circumstances. "Do NOT call or text the passenger" is not the best advice. I text them after 2 minutes have gone by to give my self recourse if they try to dispute the cancellation fee after 5 minutes or Uber tries to stiff me and not pay it. The dashcam is good for the driver, but I think the rider also has a right to say that they do not wish to be recorded. Fortunately, we have not received much complaint about that.


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## DashCamBros (May 4, 2016)

os2wiz said:


> I've been using the DrivePro 520 for a couple of months. I, too, have considered backup options. I have 7 SD cards, but am curious about how you plan to transfer all that data to a hard drive. It takes a significant amount of time, which I hesitate to spend.


You could always look for a dash cam like the BlackVue Dr650-2ch-Infrared, which can support up to a 128 GB card. This should give you upwards of 20-30 hrs of footage depending on which setting you record on, and its infrared enabled like the Transcend (but better), and the wifi actually works.. unlike alot of complaints with the transcends wifi.

No more fussing with SD cards, or accidentally overwriting the wrong one. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## os2wiz (Sep 30, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> I don't think it will take too much time to select a bunch of files, and then drag-and-drop them to an HDD. I can go to bed while the transfer is taking place.


Thanks. I have 7 dedicated, networked computers in my home office, one of which I call my "movie machine". Since the advent of Netflix et. al., I don't use it for that purpose anymore. It's all set up for video processing, so I suppose I could use its 1 TB drive to store dashcam videos. I'll try off-loading one of my SD cards tonight to see how the timing works out.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

naplestom75 said:


> I actually agree with some of it, I was a bit harsh in my first assessment.
> 
> But I don't agree with being that picky over the rider's rating, there are reasons they might be at or below 4.7 that might not translate to them being a bad experience for you. The livery insurance advice is not really even advice, it's an opinion, it all depends on what you feel you have to lose or gain from spending or not spending $4,500. Taking rides behind you can easily be feasible in some circumstances. "Do NOT call or text the passenger" is not the best advice. I text them after 2 minutes have gone by to give my self recourse if they try to dispute the cancellation fee after 5 minutes or Uber tries to stiff me and not pay it. The dashcam is good for the driver, but I think the rider also has a right to say that they do not wish to be recorded. Fortunately, we have not received much complaint about that.


Thanks for clarification. We're IC's, so we have to figure out what works best for us individually. In my market, I am one of the most profitable drivers and I'm in the top 5% in terms of driver rating, so I feel an obligation to share the methods of my success with my driving brethren here. If you feel my advice is misguided, I respect that. But the vast majority of comments I receive from other drivers contain the phrase, "Thank you." My only goal is the help drivers achieve the same success I have and not get treated like a doormat.
Now, let's get back behind the wheel, head to the streets, have some fun, and make a few bucks!


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> It's been awhile since I've been out here and I see there are a lot of new contributors. For our new driving brethren, I post a piece that helped me and will help the new drivers move along the learning curve rapidly...
> 
> Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.
> 
> ...


Whatever a new driver does, don't listen to this. It's mostly a terrible list. The insurance statements are false.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> ​
> Don't agree. Follow Uber's rules when it comes to handling another person's property. If you have something in your possession that does not belong to you, you are treading the line of theft or trover (look it up) charges. Best way is to make sure it doesn't happen in the first place.


Let me make sure I understand you properly. In order to avoid the mere risk of offending a pax who left items in your car, you will allow a perfect stranger to put wear on your car, then steal your time and miles without fair compensation? I gotta tell ya, that is one of the most unusual business models I've ever encountered. The goal is to drive COST out of your business, not PROFIT. So, if you're willing to give your profit away to a perfect stranger, what would I have to do to get you to hand over some of your profit to me? Would asking politely suffice? How much would you be willing to hand over if I said 'please?'


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Let me make sure I understand you properly. In order to avoid the mere risk of offending a pax who left items in your car, you will allow a perfect stranger to put wear on your car, then steal your time and miles without fair compensation? I gotta tell ya, that is one of the most unusual business models I've ever encountered. The goal is to drive COST out of your business, not PROFIT. So, if you're willing to give your profit away to a perfect stranger, what would I have to do to get you to hand over some of your profit to me? Would asking politely suffice? How much would you be willing to hand over if I said 'please?'


Never said that. I'm not going to break any Uber rule or even flirt with breaking a law over such a thing. This has happened once already, and I was just down the block so I turned around and returned the backpack. I don't know what's in the backpack and don't want it in my possession, don't want to have to drive around with it all night and worry about some other passenger messing with it, and any other way of returning the property would have been more work than just taking a couple of minutes and dropping it off. If I was 50 miles away when I found out about it something else would have to be done. I would probably just drop it off at the local PD, tell them I found it (which is true) and tell Uber where it is.

Another pax called and said he thought he lost his wallet in my car. I stopped, looked back there, no wallet, case closed. It doesn't happen often enough for it to be a major problem, and all it takes is one major problem to arise from holding someone else's property to make it not worthwhile.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Never said that. I'm not going to break any Uber rule or even flirt with breaking a law over such a thing. This has happened once already, and I was just down the block so I turned around and returned the backpack. I don't know what's in the backpack and don't want it in my possession, don't want to have to drive around with it all night and worry about some other passenger messing with it, and any other way of returning the property would have been more work than just taking a couple of minutes and dropping it off. If I was 50 miles away when I found out about it something else would have to be done. I would probably just drop it off at the local PD, tell them I found it (which is true) and tell Uber where it is.
> 
> Another pax called and said he thought he lost his wallet in my car. I stopped, looked back there, no wallet, case closed. It doesn't happen often enough for it to be a major problem, and all it takes is one major problem to arise from holding someone else's property to make it not worthwhile.


I agree 100%, and I would never hold anyone's property as I have no use for other people's stuff. Just cover my expenses and I'm happy to help. It's not like I'm being unreasonable, I'm just operating my business prudently. Time is money. Miles are money. It's foolish to give either away. I won't, because failing to cover one's costs is a really poor way to operate a business. The other businesses I run are successful, due in large part to always making sure my costs are covered regardless of how small the job may be. There should be profit in every job, otherwise don't take it. That's why I cherry pick my rides very carefully. At the menial rates we draw, it's foolish not to cherry pick.
Drive smart.
Make money.
Uber on!


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Whatever a new driver does, don't listen to this. It's mostly a terrible list. The insurance statements are false.


Actually, after doing some research, I've found that Hunt to Eat's statements about insurance are absolutely correct.

If you get in an at-fault accident (where it's YOUR fault), you will be hung out to dry.

If you get in a not-at-fault accident (where it's another driver's fault), you will likely be cancelled by your insurance carrier. Uber/Lyft's policy will cover you in this scenario... but your own insurance carrier will cancel your policy.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Actually, after doing some research, I've found that Hunt to Eat's statements about insurance are absolutely correct.
> 
> If you get in an at-fault accident (where it's YOUR fault), you will be hung out to dry.
> 
> If you get in a not-at-fault accident (where it's another driver's fault), you will likely be cancelled by your insurance carrier. Uber/Lyft's policy will cover you in this scenario... but your own insurance carrier will cancel your policy.


Yup! I spoke with Chris Boedeker - Uber's ‎Senior Manager of Claims. I asked him some very direct questions and he came clean with me. He wasn't comfortable admitting it, but he did tell me that if an Uber driver is in an at-fault crash, the driver is screwed. He also advised that all Uber drivers have adequate medical insurance of their own because there is NO medical coverage for Uber drivers. Paxs will be covered, but Uber does not and will not cover the driver's medical in an at-fault collision.
Again, unless drivers are carrying commercial livery insurance, they're taking a very serious gamble. Is $8/hour really worth it?


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Yup! I spoke with Chris Boedeker - Uber's ‎Senior Manager of Claims. I asked him some very direct questions and he came clean with me. He wasn't comfortable admitting it, but he did tell me that if an Uber driver is in an at-fault crash, the driver is screwed. He also advised that all Uber drivers have adequate medical insurance of their own because there is NO medical coverage for Uber drivers. Paxs will be covered, but Uber does not and will not cover the driver's medical in an at-fault collision.
> Again, unless drivers are carrying commercial livery insurance, they're taking a very serious gamble. Is $8/hour really worth it?


Actually, I'll add to that...

Even if you have excellent medical insurance... as soon as your medical insurance gets a hint that your claim is related to an automobile accident... they will DENY your claim... because it should be covered by your automobile insurance! Been there, done that!


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Actually, after doing some research, I've found that Hunt to Eat's statements about insurance are absolutely correct.
> 
> If you get in an at-fault accident (where it's YOUR fault), you will be hung out to dry.
> 
> If you get in a not-at-fault accident (where it's another driver's fault), you will likely be cancelled by your insurance carrier. Uber/Lyft's policy will cover you in this scenario... but your own insurance carrier will cancel your policy.


By research do you mean reading this site? Because everything you just said is false, most of what is said here is false, and there's little chance any of that will change.

I have no intention of explaining the insurance again. No one has been hung out to dry in any accident I've ever heard of. You either understand the insurance and have done your due diligence or you haven't.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Actually, I'll add to that...
> 
> Even if you have excellent medical insurance... as soon as your medical insurance gets a hint that your claim is related to an automobile accident... they will DENY your claim... because it should be covered by your automobile insurance! Been there, done that!


You sure you're new here?


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## djangoswango (Mar 10, 2015)

thank god I have insurance that also covers me for ridesharing.


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## suzy1967 (May 27, 2016)

Hey guys...I just started with Uber today..Probably not the smartest move since this is the first day of a holiday weekend. I decided to do a couple of runs and see how I like it. I have a few questions: 1. How many of you drive exclusively during the day? 2. I don't live in Atlanta proper ( Cobb Co area) ,so is it possible to live out here and make decent money? 3. Is it better to use a Garmin that will give you route options instead of the Uber app, or are you required to use it to stay in the system? I had a pax today that had to go from Marietta down to Northlake Pkwy and 285 E was already backed up because of holiday traffic. I'm not sure I could've gotten her down there any faster, but am not sure what to do in the future. 4. Someone mentioned in another thread about getting some sort of card and being paid daily- what is that about? Thanks in advance for all of the replies!


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

suzy1967 said:


> Hey guys...I just started with Uber today..Probably not the smartest move since this is the first day of a holiday weekend. I decided to do a couple of runs and see how I like it. I have a few questions: 1. How many of you drive exclusively during the day? 2. I don't live in Atlanta proper ( Cobb Co area) ,so is it possible to live out here and make decent money? 3. Is it better to use a Garmin that will give you route options instead of the Uber app, or are you required to use it to stay in the system? I had a pax today that had to go from Marietta down to Northlake Pkwy and 285 E was already backed up because of holiday traffic. I'm not sure I could've gotten her down there any faster, but am not sure what to do in the future. 4. Someone mentioned in another thread about getting some sort of card and being paid daily- what is that about? Thanks in advance for all of the replies!


Use Google maps on your phone, but keep a Garmin handy for those occasions when cell service gets spotty. Also, the Uber partner app will sometimes just kind of freak out for no good reason. Those are the times when I use my Garmin.
Make sure you take a good look at the tips I posted earlier in this thread. Many a new driver has avoided a lot of new driver mistakes by taking my advice and applying the experience of us veterans. Uber/Lyft is a fun gig, but you will make precisely zero profit if you follow Uber's rules. It'll feel like you're earning profit, but all you're doing is cashing out the equity in your car sooner than you'd probably like. Be selective. Be careful. And don't let anyone take advantage of you. You're a livery driver now. That being said, you DO NOT move your car so much as one foot without being compensated.
Our motto here is ABC: Always Be Compensated.
Thanks for joining us. We're a pretty decent group with a minimum of sore heads out here, but we just put those blokes on ignore.
Feel free to start a private conversation with me if you'd like me to address any questions you might have and avoid the ridicule of the sore heads.


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## suzy1967 (May 27, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Use Google maps on your phone, but keep a Garmin handy for those occasions when cell service gets spotty. Also, the Uber partner app will sometimes just kind of freak out for no good reason. Those are the times when I use my Garmin.
> Make sure you take a good look at the tips I posted earlier in this thread. Many a new driver has avoided a lot of new driver mistakes by taking my advice and applying the experience of us veterans. Uber/Lyft is a fun gig, but you will make precisely zero profit if you follow Uber's rules. It'll feel like you're earning profit, but all you're doing is cashing out the equity in your car sooner than you'd probably like. Be selective. Be careful. And don't let anyone take advantage of you. You're a livery driver now. That being said, you DO NOT move your car so much as one foot without being compensated.
> Our motto here is ABC: Always Be Compensated.
> Thanks for joining us. We're a pretty decent group with a minimum of sore heads out here, but we just put those blokes on ignore.
> Feel free to start a private conversation with me if you'd like me to address any questions you might have and avoid the ridicule of the sore heads.


Thank you for the swift reply! I had a feeling a Garmin might be a good move, but you just don't know until you get started and see what it's like.


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## Body Politic (Jan 1, 2016)

^^ And what he means by "silly posts" is "posts who call out those who extort money from passengers to return their property." Seeing how Tenzo and I both have a higher likes-per-post ratio than Hunt to Eat does, consider taking his advice on who to filter out with a grain of salt.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

"4.96 driver rating, baby! *4.96*. 'Nuff said!
But we will agree you guys/gals are a little silly.
Anything else I can help you with today, or are we good for now?"

You haven't been extorting money from pax's have you hunt? Say it ain't so. I think your buddy in comment #115 is thinks "earning"and" distorting" money are the same thing. lol


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

secretadmirer said:


> "4.96 driver rating, baby! *4.96*. 'Nuff said!
> But we will agree you guys/gals are a little silly.
> Anything else I can help you with today, or are we good for now?"
> 
> You haven't been extorting money from pax's have you hunt? Say it ain't so. I think your buddy in comment #115 is thinks "earning"and" distorting" money are the same thing. lol


Of course I'm not extorting. You know me better than that. I am a contractor who merely charges to cover his time and expenses. Nothing more and nothing less. It's called running a business. In fact, I run two other business when I'm not puttering around town for U/L. If I wanted to operate a charity I would have selected something other than Uber/Lyft.

There are a few blokes and lasses out here who like to use the word _extortion_, but they clearly have no real grasp what the word means. I clear that up below. We're guessing they like the way the word sounds or feels when they speak it. It's a pretty special word, but it works best when it it used correctly, we will agree.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> • Dual channel dashcam. Don't ask why. Just get one and install it.
> • Never pick up a pax with a rating lower than 4.7. (Jesus, how hard is it to be a 5-star pax? How about not being a ******bag?)​


​I only got one pax this weekend with a rating lower than 4.7 (his was 4.6). Holy cow, you were right! This guy was turning up the volume on my radio, fiddling with the buttons on his arm rest, and at one point even pulled the button module in his arm rest out! It just snaps into place, but holy F**k! He even asked if he could pair his phone with my car's Bluetooth. No!

Several pax asked questions about my dash cam. One wanted to buy one for himself, so he asked me for the model number.

One pax was upset about the camera. She said it was a violation of her privacy. I told her that she has the option of asking me to pull over and let her out. She decided to stay in the car, but she continued to complain during the entire trip. And... her complaining distracted me enough that I missed an exit in a tunnel, and ended up going on a big loop around the airport (with $3.00 tolls both ways). She was a Line pax, so she had a flat rate... and she said she wasn't in a hurry to get to her destination, so the only problem was that she was charged the two $3.00 tolls. I offered to give her cash for the tolls, but she wanted me to go through Lyft for the toll refund. I did that, but I bet she gave me a bad rating.

That was my only bad experience over the weekend, except for one other extremely annoying woman who would not shut up about her boyfriend.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

So, I gave him a 5 star rating, because I was afraid that he would give me something less than 5 stars.

This brings me to a question...

Do the passengers get notified when I give them less than 5 stars???

This guy should have received a 1-star rating from me... but I was afraid to do that for fear of his retribution.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> So, I gave him a 5 star rating, because I was afraid that he would give me something less than 5 stars.
> 
> This brings me to a question...
> 
> ...


No. Paxs do not see any individual ratings from drivers. Feel free to downrate them as you see fit. They do it to you, may as well pay it back, right?


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> No. Paxs do not see any individual ratings from drivers. Feel free to downrate them as you see fit. They do it to you, may as well pay it back, right?


OK!!! I will let the 1-3 star ratings fly!!! TBH, this was the only one during the 3-day weekend who deserved less than 5 stars. But, you were absolutely correct about accepting less than a 4.7 pax. I have had the same experience on e-bay. I won't buy from a seller with less than a 98% positive feedback. In my experience, sellers with 97% are a pain in the a$$.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> OK!!! I will let the 1-3 star ratings fly!!! TBH, this was the only one during the 3-day weekend who deserved less than 5 stars. But, you were absolutely correct about accepting less than a 4.7 pax. I have had the same experience on e-bay. I won't buy from a seller with less than a 98% positive feedback. In my experience, sellers with 97% are a pain in the a$$.


Funny how that works, huh? We're told that Uber's keep/kill threshold for drivers is 4.6 or 4.7. That being the case, we drivers are well-advised to apply the same metric to our prospective paxs. Hell, why wouldn't we? As I said in my opening post, how hard is it to be a 5-star pax?


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

suzy1967 said:


> Hey guys...I just started with Uber today..Probably not the smartest move since this is the first day of a holiday weekend. I decided to do a couple of runs and see how I like it. I have a few questions: 1. How many of you drive exclusively during the day? 2. I don't live in Atlanta proper ( Cobb Co area) ,so is it possible to live out here and make decent money? 3. Is it better to use a Garmin that will give you route options instead of the Uber app, or are you required to use it to stay in the system? I had a pax today that had to go from Marietta down to Northlake Pkwy and 285 E was already backed up because of holiday traffic. I'm not sure I could've gotten her down there any faster, but am not sure what to do in the future. 4. Someone mentioned in another thread about getting some sort of card and being paid daily- what is that about? Thanks in advance for all of the replies!


You're smart to do a couple trial runs to see if you like it before heavily investing.

1. I'm part-time. I use Uber for extra income and as a tax write-down. Lotsa threads about being profitable and tax advise, the answers vary depending on individual views and full time vs part time and where you drive. There are whole forums on this site dedicated to the insurance debate. Don't believe everything you read. Do your own research, although I would suggest anonymously calling some insurance agents and asking about their company's policy versus calling your agent and having him pull up your profile after you've said the U-word. 
2. I'm from Iowa, wouldn't know  There should be local forums for your city on this site with more local answers.
3. I use Google maps via the Uber app. It's faster than re-typing destinations into my Garmin. The Garmin is nice for local area view when you're trying to get back out of the drop off neighborhood or if you miss a turn and want to see if that next street reconnects or is a dead-end.

Other things to look into consider:
1. Incorporating or forming an LLC - again do your own research. Pros/cons of up-front and recurring costs, liability (look especially into tort liability), and tax benefits.
2. Dash cam. Always CYA (cover your ass)
3.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Dback2004 said:


> You're smart to do a couple trial runs to see if you like it before heavily investing.
> 
> 1. I'm part-time. I use Uber for extra income and as a tax write-down. Lotsa threads about being profitable and tax advise, the answers vary depending on individual views and full time vs part time and where you drive. There are whole forums on this site dedicated to the insurance debate. Don't believe everything you read. Do your own research, although I would suggest anonymously calling some insurance agents and asking about their company's policy versus calling your agent and having him pull up your profile after you've said the U-word.
> 2. I'm from Iowa, wouldn't know  There should be local forums for your city on this site with more local answers.
> ...


That's some excellent advice. You remind me of someone else on this site.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> That's some excellent advice. You remind me of someone else on this site.


Undermensch ? lol


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Dback2004 said:


> Undermensch ? lol


What did I step in?


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> What did I step in?


Just one of the few regulars on these forums that I agree with more often than not


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## Tenzo (Jan 25, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Of course I'm not extorting. You know me better than that. I am a contractor who merely charges to cover his time and expenses. Nothing more and nothing less. It's called running a business.
> 
> There are a few blokes and lasses out here who like to use the word _extortion_, but they clearly have no real grasp what the word means. .


_Extortion is the crime of obtaining money or property by threat to a victim's property. _ (Like demanding money to return their property)
_While usually viewed as a form of theft/larceny, extortion differs from robbery in that the threat in question does not pose an imminent physical danger to the victim. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/extortion.html#sthash.Oj5AJkrN.dpuf
_
See, I didnt say you were robbing them. I was specific on my verb.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Tenzo said:


> _Extortion is the crime of obtaining money or property by threat to a victim's property. _ (Like demanding money to return their property)
> _While usually viewed as a form of theft/larceny, extortion differs from robbery in that the threat in question does not pose an imminent physical danger to the victim. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/extortion.html#sthash.Oj5AJkrN.dpuf
> _
> See, I didnt say you were robbing them. I was specific on my verb.


Yeah, but if being compensated for my time and effort when I return property is extortion, then every week or two when people get paid for the work they do, they're engaging in extortion, too. See, your logic falls on its face.
Now that we have that little semantic jib-jab cleared up, is there anything else I can clarify for you? I think we're done here, and I hope you now have a more accurate grasp of what is and what isn't extortion. But, hey, if you need more clarity, I'm more than happy to help. After all, that's why I'm here for you.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Roslyn - I was thinking about you yesterday. Did you ever get a chance to take a peek at your personal auto policy's Exclusions? Did you find anything there that runs counter to your desire to drive for Uber?


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## Craig M (Jun 4, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> It's been awhile since I've been out here and I see there are a lot of new contributors. For our new driving brethren, I post a piece that helped me and will help the new drivers move along the learning curve rapidly...
> 
> Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.
> 
> ...


Great advice. But Uber penalizes you and will suspend you if you ignore a lot of pings. How do you avoid that? If you know, I would like to know how lol


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Craig M said:


> Great advice. But Uber penalizes you and will suspend you if you ignore a lot of pings. How do you avoid that? If you know, I would like to know how lol


My acceptance is consistently between 78% and 82%. I once received an E-mail when my acceptance rate went down to about 85%. I responded to the E-mail by telling Uber to quit bugging me and that if it had a problem with my acceptance rate that it needed to take up the matter with my 4.96 driver rating. That was the last I heard of any problems with my acceptance rate and it continued to go down after that message. Apparently, a low acceptance rate is offset by a high driver rating.


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## LashLaRue (May 30, 2016)

Brian321 said:


> All of the above mileage is tax deductible. You are self employed. Your business miles start the moment when you begin driving toward the place where you conduct business. Your business miles end when you stop driving for said business.
> 
> For me, my business miles start when I begin driving toward an area which I believe to have potential riders. My business miles end when I get home.


Agree, I am a process server for the courts and the Sheriff, now trying to mix in UBER for more profit, (not sure its gonna work since I have no idea where the next ride is going, and I need to work within my territory), all of my miles from start of day til home have been deductible, this has been for years and years, by my CPA, never had a problem. Just have a log book and record EVERY SINGLE PLACE you go to, with starting and ending mileage for the day.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

LashLaRue said:


> Agree, I am a process server for the courts and the Sheriff, now trying to mix in UBER for more profit, (not sure its gonna work since I have no idea where the next ride is going, and I need to work within my territory), all of my miles from start of day til home have been deductible, this has been for years and years, by my CPA, never had a problem. Just have a log book and record EVERY SINGLE PLACE you go to, with starting and ending mileage for the day.


I met a bloke in Scottsdale who drives Uber and is a process server. Not sure how he works it. He was a little tipsy when I picked him up at Top Golf. I wish I had gotten his card. I have to hire a process server this week.


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## LashLaRue (May 30, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> I met a bloke in Scottsdale who drives Uber and is a process server. Not sure how he works it. He was a little tipsy when I picked him up at Top Golf. I wish I had gotten his card. I have to hire a process server this week.


Arizona has super easy laws for service compared to California, that's why he has time to golf and drink, you can subserve a 14 year old on your first attempt!


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

LashLaRue said:


> Arizona has super easy laws for service compared to California, that's why he has time to golf and drink, you can subserve a 14 year old on your first attempt!


He had time to golf and drink because it was midnight. I don't know too many process servers who work at that hour.


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## LashLaRue (May 30, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> He had time to golf and drink because it was midnight. I don't know too many process servers who work at that hour.


Golf at midnight sounds fun. And you're right, knocking on doors after 9:30 at night will get you lots of people who are drunk, thinking about their exes, and cleaning their guns.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

LashLaRue said:


> thinking about their exes, and cleaning their guns.


LOL


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> By research do you mean reading this site? Because everything you just said is false, most of what is said here is false, and there's little chance any of that will change.
> 
> I have no intention of explaining the insurance again. No one has been hung out to dry in any accident I've ever heard of. You either understand the insurance and have done your due diligence or you haven't.


you should explain, because you are making it seem like insurance companies with regular personal car insurance are okay with Uber, and thats as false as it can be


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> you should explain, because you are making it seem like insurance companies with regular personal car insurance are okay with Uber, and thats as false as it can be


Most insurance companies allow part time Ubering without dropping the driver. It's a fact. Go read the accident threads and almost everyone who has been dropped were with Geico. They just aren't going to cover you while Ubering. According to one Uber driver who also has State Farm, he read the actual memo instructing agents to allow it. Mine told me exactly the same as his told him, both answers coming from corporate, not the agent.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Most insurance companies allow part time Ubering without dropping the driver. It's a fact. Go read the accident threads and almost everyone who has been dropped were with Geico. They just aren't going to cover you while Ubering. According to one Uber driver who also has State Farm, he read the actual memo instructing agents to allow it. Mine told me exactly the same as his told him, both answers coming from corporate, not the agent.


Lies and falsehood
Most companies will drop you or not renew you


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Lies and falsehood
> Most companies will drop you or not renew you


Nope. Not true. Try actually reading the threads on here and elsewhere.

I've read more insurance and accident threads than I can remember and only Geico is adamant about dropping you. Almost all of the others just refuse to cover you periods 2 and 3 while period 1 is mostly a no, but not always.

You can keep repeating this myth, but you can't support it.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Most insurance companies allow part time Ubering without dropping the driver. It's a fact. Go read the accident threads and almost everyone who has been dropped were with Geico. They just aren't going to cover you while Ubering. According to one Uber driver who also has State Farm, he read the actual memo instructing agents to allow it. Mine told me exactly the same as his told him, both answers coming from corporate, not the agent.


here's the thing
if what you say is true, nobody really needs to get ridshare or commerical insurance
we all can just keep our regular cheaper personal insuarnce since most companies are cool with doing Uber right?


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Nope. Not true. Try actually reading the threads on here and elsewhere.
> 
> I've read more insurance and accident threads than I can remember and only Geico is adamant about dropping you. Almost all of the others just refuse to cover you periods 2 and 3 while period 1 is mostly a no, but not always.
> 
> You can keep repeating this myth, but you can't support it.


I'm afraid it's true. There is no myth about it.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I'm afraid it's true. There is no myth about it.


Exactly what is true?

are you siding with me.... Again? Lol


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> here's the thing
> if what you say is true, nobody really needs to get ridshare or commerical insurance
> we all can just keep our regular cheaper personal insuarnce since most companies are cool with doing Uber right?


Dude, I have never said or implied anything along those lines. MOST insurance companies will NOT drop you for part time TNC. That's it. That's my entire point.

Do you still need gap insurance as a primary and with collision? Yes. Do you still need medical to cover your injuries? Absolutely.

Now consider that TNC gap insurance riders on personal policies cost just a few dollars more a month and you'll realise why they really don't care if you TNC. If it was a big deal, they would charge much more, but it's not a big deal because JR takes on all of the risk, so they allow it part time. It's not like they are on the hook while you Uber, they aren't. They are actually getting the same money from you and only covering you part of the time!

Stop spreading myths. Read the accident and insurance threads and you'll see one huge, can't be missed, obvious as can be, common outcome: Geico drops drivers, almost no one else does.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I'm afraid it's true. There is no myth about it.


The often repeated but never supported fabricated line that insurance companies drop TNC drivers is 100% myth and it's 100% supported here and in other forums. It's not hard to figure out. Just read the outcomes of insurance inquiries and accidents like I have. Geico will drop you, almost no others do.

There are exceptions, agents who don't know what they are talking about, and extenuating circumstances, but it's pretty universal.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> The often repeated but never supported fabricated line that insurance companies drop TNC drivers is 100% myth and it's 100% supported here and in other forums. It's not hard to figure out. Just read the outcomes of insurance inquiries and accidents like I have. Geico will drop you, almost no others do.
> 
> There are exceptions, agents who don't know what they are talking about, and extenuating circumstances, but it's pretty universal.


get um ChortlingCrison !


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## SFAgentKyle (Mar 16, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Dude, I have never said or implied anything along those lines. MOST insurance companies will NOT drop you for part time TNC. That's it. That's my entire point.
> 
> Do you still need gap insurance as a primary and with collision? Yes. Do you still need medical to cover your injuries? Absolutely.
> 
> ...


My office talks to about 15-20 drivers per day and we hear about Geico regularly... We haven't had any drivers from other companies talk about being dropped. Other companies may not provide coverage, but aren't dropping drivers at this point. Much of this depends on the State... I am speaking of California specifically. Also, on a state level, State Farm in California offers coverage during all 3 driving periods. So, just a slight correction to your comments above about James River taking "all the risk".


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

SFAgentKyle said:


> My office talks to about 15-20 drivers per day and we hear about Geico regularly... We haven't had any drivers from other companies talk about being dropped. Other companies may not provide coverage, but aren't dropping drivers at this point. Much of this depends on the State... I am speaking of California specifically. Also, on a state level, State Farm in California offers coverage during all 3 driving periods. So, just a slight correction to your comments above about James River taking "all the risk".


Thank you. I was using the results from hundreds of incidents to draw my conclusions but your experience verifies what I discovered anecdotally. I believe your State Farm observation for CA is probably with a TNC policy or policy rider, yes?

Secondly, we had a driver here stating that State Farm sent out an emailed memo over a year ago stating part time TNC was not a valid reason to drop a customer, is that correct as far as you know?

Thirdly, my agent, whom I've had 20 years of commercial insurance dealings with, spent two weeks investigating and came back REVERSING what they told me initially, and said I was covered in period 1 in MO with my full coverage personal policy. Any validity to that?


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## SFAgentKyle (Mar 16, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Thank you. I was using the results from hundreds of incidents to draw my conclusions but your experience verifies what I discovered anecdotally. I believe your State Farm observation for CA is probably with a TNC policy or policy rider, yes?
> *Yes... this is with TNC rider. In california rideshare is excluded from base policies with most(all in my experience) insurance carriers. *
> Secondly, we had a driver here stating that State Farm sent out an emailed memo over a year ago stating part time TNC was not a valid reason to drop a customer, is that correct as far as you know?
> *I can't confirm that... as you know, each state is different. In California, there was no such memo... however there was no memo or action around dropping rideshare drivers prior to the TNC endorsement being available either.*
> ...


See my responses above in BOLD


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

It looks like we have quite a few new drivers on the board lately, so I'll do my public service duty and help them move quickly along the learning curve.

*Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.*

• Don't even think about driving until you've purchased a commercial livery insurance policy or have acquired TNC gap coverage. A livery policy will run you about $4500 per year so you're going to be doing a lot of driving at first. But you really have no choice in the matter. Your personal insurance company is going to drop you if they learn you're driving for Uber. And the Uber contingent liability policy DOES NOT cover your medical claim or your property claim in the event you are involved in an at-fault accident.
• Dual channel dashcam. Don't ask why. Just get one and install it.
• Never pick up a pax with a rating lower than 4.7. (Jesus, how hard is it to be a 5-star pax? How about not being a d*****bag?)
• Never respond to a ping more than 10 minutes away. (Yes, it might be a decent fare, but the odds are against you.)
• If you're traveling, never respond to a ping behind you.
• When you arrive at pickup location and pax is not present, DO NOT call or text the pax. Start a stop watch and cancel at 5:01 and move on. A pax who lacks the basic courtesy of being ready when you arrive is likely not a pax you want in your car in the first place and rating you. After all, the pax called YOU.
• For the love of God, NEVER had out gum, candy, mints, water, etc. to paxs. There is no upside, it costs you money, and it creates more mess for you to clean up.
• If a pax leaves something behind in your car. DO NOT make the effort to return it. If you follow Uber's rules it'll actually cost you money and time to return it. If the pax needs it back, he/she will track you down through Uber. When that happens you can negotiate an appropriate fee to return the item. It doesn't matter what the item is - wallet, phone, eyeglasses, event tickets, clothing, jewelry, etc.
• ABC - Always Be Compensated. You're an independent contractor. Behave like an independent contractor. Don't do anything without being paid. If you wish to run your car as a charity, the folks over at Meals on Wheels would love to speak with you.

Some of these items may seem a little harsh to the new driver, but time and experience will show you that these practices not only work, but that they work very well. As a new driver, there's no value in re-inventing the wheel, as it were.

But most of all, have fun out there. You're not going to make any money, so be sure to enjoy yourself. Otherwise, what's the point? (FYI - the average Uber driver earns $7 to $9 per hour, but those values have been on the decline for over a year.)

'Yote


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

SFAgentKyle said:


> My office talks to about 15-20 drivers per day and we hear about Geico regularly... We haven't had any drivers from other companies talk about being dropped. Other companies may not provide coverage, but aren't dropping drivers at this point. Much of this depends on the State... I am speaking of California specifically. Also, on a state level, State Farm in California offers coverage during all 3 driving periods. So, just a slight correction to your comments above about James River taking "all the risk".


Progressive is dropping TNC drivers, too. Flo no likee Uber.


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## SFAgentKyle (Mar 16, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Progressive is dropping TNC drivers, too. Flo no likee Uber.


Send them my way.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

SFAgentKyle said:


> Send them my way.


I'd love to.
I was insured with SF for 35+ years. Then things went south and I had to cancel all my policies. It was so very sad and it didn't have to end that way.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Progressive is dropping TNC drivers, too. Flo no likee Uber.


Hey Hunt to Eat, I certainly respect what you have to say, and I appreciate your help. So, please don't take this in a negative way.

Can you post some links that confirm your assertion that Progressive is dropping customers for being TNC drivers? This would help me immensely.

Thanks!


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Hey Hunt to Eat, I certainly respect what you have to say, and I appreciate your help. So, please don't take this in a negative way.
> 
> Can you post some links that confirm your assertion that Progressive is dropping customers for being TNC drivers? This would help me immensely.
> 
> Thanks!


No offense taken. My bride insures her jalopy with Flo. In a recent conversation with our agent regarding a broken windshield, I asked about Progressive's stance on ride sharing. He said, "It is frowned upon."
I asked him if that might be a euphemism for some other phrase. He then told me that Progressive has been dropping TNC drivers.
And that's all I can tell you.


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## Brian321 (May 19, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> No offense taken. My bride insures her jalopy with Flo. In a recent conversation with our agent regarding a broken windshield, I asked about Progressive's stance on ride sharing. He said, "It is frowned upon."
> I asked him if that might be a euphemism for some other phrase. He then told me that Progressive has been dropping TNC drivers.
> And that's all I can tell you.


Well, thanks for nothing. I guess that's all we can expect from insurance companies... nothing.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Brian321 said:


> Well, thanks for nothing. I guess that's all we can expect from insurance companies... nothing.


I take it you're a Progressive client. Progressive is a fine insurance company and I have gone back to Progressive now that I don't need a livery policy any longer.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> You are mostly correct. However, it is not against the law for us to be compensated for our time, and that is the thing to remember here, otherwise you open yourself up to get taken advantage of. And that's no way to run a business. There is a significant difference between holding something for ransom and being compensated for you time to return it. I would never say, "Give me money or you don't get your crap back." That'd just be gauche, we will agree. A more appropriate response would be, "Yes, I see you left you digital widget in my car. Can we arrange to meet somewhere so I can return it to you and you can compensate me for my time and fuel?" Let me give you an example of how this played out for me last fall.
> 
> A couple got into my car for a long trip to the airport. They were going on vacation to the Chicago area from Phx. About 10 minutes after they exit my car I hear a Fisher Price (iPhone) ringing somewhere in my car. I eventually locate the phone deep under the backseat cushion. It's the woman and she's frantic that she lost her phone, but is now happy that she knows I have it. So, she asks me if I can overnight it to her via FedEx the next day. I agreed. I told her that I would be taking time out of my day job to get it to her and that my day billing rate is $100 per hour as I'm a consultant. I told her I'd only charge her for one-half hour, so $50. At the FedEx office I learned that overnight service before 10am delivery to Chicago would run $42.50. So, I called her back and told her that between FedEx shipping and my time that I would need to collect $92.50. She graciously agreed and provided me with a credit card number that I was then able to run through one of my other businesses. She and her husband were clearly professionals and they knew they were dealing with another professional and that I wasn't going to take advantage of them, but that I needed to be compensated. As a courtesy I included my business card in the package and I got a wonderful thank you card in the mail a few days later.
> 
> ...


The best part of that is that they are now clients.
Well done.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> I agree 100%, and I would never hold anyone's property as I have no use for other people's stuff. Just cover my expenses and I'm happy to help. It's not like I'm being unreasonable, I'm just operating my business prudently. Time is money. Miles are money. It's foolish to give either away. I won't, because failing to cover one's costs is a really poor way to operate a business. The other businesses I run are successful, due in large part to always making sure my costs are covered regardless of how small the job may be. There should be profit in every job, otherwise don't take it. That's why I cherry pick my rides very carefully. At the menial rates we draw, it's foolish not to cherry pick.
> Drive smart.
> Make money.
> Uber on!


Please explain your cherry picking techniques..


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

2Cents said:


> Please explain your cherry picking techniques..



Never accept a ping that is behind me if I'm moving.
Never accept a ping more than five (5) minutes away. Seven (7) minutes if surge.
After accepting ping, contact pax to get destination, then decide whether to continue or or sit still (or drive in opposite direction) and wait for pax to cancel.
There are other cherry-picking techniques out there, but these are the ones that yield the profitability I require.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Never accept a ping that is behind me if I'm moving.
> Never accept a ping more than five (5) minutes away. Seven (7) minutes if surge.
> After accepting ping, contact pax to get destination, then decide whether to continue or or sit still (or drive in opposite direction) and wait for pax to cancel.
> There are other cherry-picking techniques out there, but these are the ones that yield the profitability I require.


I appreciate your insight. Your threads in my option yield the most useful results.

I'm glad that it's not just me that doesn't accept pings behind me if I'm moving. I've found this to be quite effective.
My cut off is 10 mins, but you recommend keeping the distance to 5 mins?
Also, do any passengers object to divulging their destination to you after you call them?


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## pandabear2016 (Aug 6, 2016)

Thumbs up for Hands To Eat for the tips.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

2Cents said:


> I appreciate your insight. Your threads in my option yield the most useful results.
> 
> I'm glad that it's not just me that doesn't accept pings behind me if I'm moving. I've found this to be quite effective.
> My cut off is 10 mins, but you recommend keeping the distance to 5 mins?
> Also, do any passengers object to divulging their destination to you after you call them?


Every once in awhile the pax will be reluctant to give destination. As more drivers learn to cherry pick, paxs will get cagey about divulging destinations. But for the time being, it's pretty easy to get paxs to talk. And then you can decide if it's worth getting out of park...or depressing the clutch.


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## uberSR (Aug 7, 2016)

Brian321 said:


> All of the above mileage is tax deductible. You are self employed. Your business miles start the moment when you begin driving toward the place where you conduct business. Your business miles end when you stop driving for said business.
> 
> For me, my business miles start when I begin driving toward an area which I believe to have potential riders. My business miles end when I get home.


I use mileageIQ to track, also have Intuit for businessowners running. You can classify when you get home what was business or personal


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## pandabear2016 (Aug 6, 2016)

Those are great ideas I will look into.


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