# For Uber Drivers, the Key to Making More Money Could Be a Used Toyota Prius



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

https://www.barrons.com/articles/uber-lyft-drivers-make-money-51568843943*For Uber Drivers, the Key to Making More Money Could Be a Used Toyota Prius*
Barron's By Al Root Sept 19, 2019 

*It's tough to make money as an Uber or Lyft driver, according to the automotive team at Wolfe Research.*

They have crunched a lot of ride sharing numbers, and say drivers could do a little better if they could get the cost of car ownership and operation lower. One solution: Buy a Toyota Prius (or another hybrid vehicle).

Uber (ticker: UBER) and Lyft (LYFT) aren't profitable yet. Wall Street expects Uber to lose about $1.4 billion in the 2019 third quarter. The Street expects Lyft to lose about $330 million over that time frame. One reason is that the cost of catching an Uber or Lyft is about $1.90 a mile, and about 75% of that, or $1.40, goes to drivers.

That may sound like a lot at first, but Wolfe's math demonstrates how tough it is for drivers to earn a living.

According to Wolfe, personal car ownership costs 50 to 60 cents a mile for ride-sharing drivers. So if they get $1.40 a mile then, by simple math, they net about 85 cents a mile.

According to that math, drivers would need to drive about 38,000 miles-with paying fares in cars-each year to earn the U.S. median income of about $32,000. Assuming you drive five days a week and take two weeks off a year, drivers would need to drive about 150 revenue-generating miles a day-roughly the distance form Manhattan to Springfield, Massachusetts.

And don't forget up to half of a driver's time is spent searching for a fee-paying ride, and the average trip is only about five to 6 miles, according to *Wedbush* analyst *Dan Ives*.

The situation might not be quite as dire as that, though, at least according to Wolfe analyst *Dan Galves*: "The cost per mile drops for as the number of miles increases."

Nonetheless, getting the cost of operation down is critical for drivers. Electric vehicles or hybrid cars could help. While they cost more than gasoline-powered models at the dealership, they get much better mileage. "Electric vehicles make sense in higher-use settings," say Galves. The gas savings grows the more you drive an electric car.

EVs are more expensive because batteries are costly, but buying used ones can lessen the pain. A 2015 Toyota (TM) Prius in good condition-that gets 50 miles a gallon-can be had for less than $14,000, according to Kelly Blue Book. Driving a high-mileage, used hybrid can be an effective way for ride-hailing drivers to spend less on vehicle operations.

Of course, this is just fun with numbers. The quality of life for ride-hailing drivers, however, has become a serious political issue lately. California just passed a law which designates gig-economy workers as employees and not contractors, potentially raising costs for Uber and Lyft.

"It's a clear financial negative," wrote Ives in a Sept. 11 research report. But "we fully expect gig economy companies to continue to push back and find a middle ground, but it's unclear if and how much they will start paying in the interim period."

Uber is already pushing back-it has pointed out it offers some employee benefits and 45% of Uber drivers drive less than 10 hours a week. The company didn't comment for this article, but instead pointed us to past comments. Meanwhile, almost 90% of Lyft drivers drive less than 20 hours a week and have other jobs.

Lyft provided the following statement:

"We agree with Governor Newsom that California still has an opportunity to support the overwhelming majority of ride-share drivers who want a thoughtful solution that balances flexibility with earnings guarantees and protections. We are confident that with his leadership we can reach a historic agreement, but if necessary we are prepared to take this issue to the voters to preserve the freedom and access drivers and passengers want."

There is another issue that potentially affects ride-hailing drivers even more: Many investors believe the pathway to profits for Uber and Lyft involves cutting drivers out of the equation completely. Galves does believe robo-taxis will lower costs, but notes they could be a couple of years away.

Before that happens, there is still a pathway to profitability for Uber and Lyft without eliminating drivers, according to the analyst, as long as the companies price effectively. "There was a period of intense price competition as Uber and Lyft grew their platforms," says Galves, who rates Uber shares the equivalent of Hold and Lyft stock at Sell. With the two firms maturing, the level of price competition is falling.

Better pricing mean higher value for drivers, too. With higher prices and lower costs, maybe the economics of ride-hailing for drivers can improve.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

For sure. Didn't read the whole article but anything to reduce overhead is good :thumbup:

I enjoy driving a car that's a bit more fun and comfortable. That costs me more in overhead. But it's worth the added cost for me. And Select rides make up for some of that. I couldn't drive a Prius around for more than a couple hours before I went crazy. Props to you that can.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

lol... if you haven't owned a Prius, it's hard to believe just how much 'fun' and comfortable they are.
(when I need/want, I can blow most cars away from a standstill by putting my Prius into 'power mode'.)
And for me, there's nothing more fun than racking up $100 in earnings in 2-3 hours for 1 gallon of gas. 

I have two used Priusssss... 
- a 2007 I paid $500 for (and put $1,000 in to it with a refurbed hybrid battery)
- a 2012 I paid $4,100 for (and had to do nothing to it).

Both get around 48-50 MPG.
Both are high mileage cars that I bought with over 150,000 miles on them
- and I've put over 25,000 miles on each, since)


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> https://www.barrons.com/articles/uber-lyft-drivers-make-money-51568843943*For Uber Drivers, the Key to Making More Money Could Be a Used Toyota Prius*
> Barron's By Al Root Sept 19, 2019
> 
> *It's tough to make money as an Uber or Lyft driver, according to the automotive team at Wolfe Research.*
> ...


Whole article is trash, honestly I just stop reading it.

The reason rideshare is unprofitable isn't because Uber/Lyft spends $1.40 per mile on drivers. FLAT OUT LIE, I challenge anyone to produce a shred of evidence to back that up.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Whole article is trash, honestly I just stop reading it.
> 
> The reason rideshare is unprofitable isn't because Uber/Lyft spends $1.40 per mile on drivers. FLAT OUT LIE, I challenge anyone to produce a shred of evidence to back that up.


Write to them!! The author's email contact info is in the article - let us know what they say!

But I'm not sure I understand your compliant - since:
What it costs Uber (ie: a supposed $1.40/mi) has NOTHING to do with my earnings profitability. 
Only MY expenses do.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

I’ll stick with my SUV that won’t kill me if a truck hits me or a deer runs into my car.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> https://www.barrons.com/articles/uber-lyft-drivers-make-money-51568843943*For Uber Drivers, the Key to Making More Money Could Be a Used Toyota Prius*
> Barron's By Al Root Sept 19, 2019
> 
> *It's tough to make money as an Uber or Lyft driver, according to the automotive team at Wolfe Research.*
> ...


Meanwhile, in other news, the sky is blue and water is wet :big grin:


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

I drive a Prius. It’s definitely a best case scenario from a profit motive but it’s still a dismal proposition.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Write to them!! The author's email contact info is in the article - let us know what they say!
> 
> But I'm not sure I understand your compliant - since:
> What it costs Uber (ie: a supposed $1.40/mi) has NOTHING to do with my earnings profitability.
> Only MY expenses do.


How much Uber pays you is your "earnings/gross"

Understand the article is saying Uber essentially pays its driver $1.40/mile on average hence it's unprofitable. Most places Uber pays .60-.70 cent/mile.

That number also would exclude the cost of insurance since they would still need to be insured under SDCs.

This is a pure fiction piece that is out of touch with reality. Why would I contact an author that obviously did no research about his/her written topic or is on the payroll of one of the rideshare companies?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> https://www.barrons.com/articles/uber-lyft-drivers-make-money-51568843943*For Uber Drivers, the Key to Making More Money Could Be a Used Toyota Prius*
> Barron's By Al Root Sept 19, 2019
> 
> *It's tough to make money as an Uber or Lyft driver, according to the automotive team at Wolfe Research.*
> ...


$1.40 a mile!!!

Who gets $1.40 a mile???

meanwhile
Toyota PRIUS
THE NEW " FLEET CAR"!


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Increase your per mile pay. Drive a luxury black SUV and don’t run lyft or X/Comfort. Drive smart(er)!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Understand the article is saying Uber essentially pays its driver $1.40/mile on average hence it's unprofitable. Most places Uber pays .60-.70 cent/mile.


THAT is NOT what you said above.
*You said* that the article stated: "_Uber/Lyft spends $1.40 per mile on drivers_"
What Uber 'spends' on drivers is irrelevant.


> Why would I contact an author that obviously did no research about his/her written topic or is on the payroll of one of the rideshare companies?


Just as you said - to ask the author where they got their numbers from and to get a correction from them if they're wrong.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Location: Concert Venue rideshare pick up zone. Major chaos.
Overheard a rider yelling at his driver: What do you mean you are in a Prius with blinkers on, there are 100s of them in front of me.:laugh:


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

XPG said:


> Location: Concert Venue rideshare pick up zone. Major chaos.
> Overheard a rider yelling at his driver: What do you mean you are in a Prius with blinkers on, there are 100s of them in front of me.:laugh:


Prius the " NEW" CROWN VIC !


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TPAMB said:


> Increase your per mile pay. Drive a luxury black SUV and don't run lyft or X/Comfort. Drive smart(er)!


...and do 4 rides every two days in a $40,000 vehicle that get's 16MPG. (No thanks, BTDT)
I'll drive my Prius during the week and then an XL (old minivan) on weekend nights.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> Prius the " NEW" CROWN VIC !


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> THAT is NOT what you said above.
> *You said* that the article stated: "_Uber/Lyft spends $1.40 per mile on drivers_"
> What Uber 'spends' on drivers is irrelevant.
> Just as you said - to ask the author where they got their numbers from and to get a correction from them if they're wrong.


What Uber spends on drivers = what Uber pays drivers. If you want to debate that point we can.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> What Uber spends on drivers = what Uber pays drivers.


Not necessarily true. There are costs exceeding pay.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Cassiopeia said:


> View attachment 358445


Police couldn't realistically catch anyone in that thing :rollseyes:


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> $1.40 a mile!!! Who gets $1.40 a mile???


I do, I do... in a surge. $9 tag after a concert/sports event to take people on min fare ride = $12.20 or ~$6.10/mile! (this is why it's silly for drivers to complain about short rides when it's busy out)


> meanwhile Toyota PRIUS THE NEW " FLEET CAR"!


New? Have you seen a taxi cab in NYC anytime in the last 10 years? Or corporate owned fleet cars?
They've been Prius for quite some time now.



Cassiopeia said:


> Not necessarily true. There are costs exceeding pay.


exactly. If the author had meant what Uber PAYS drivers, that's what he would have said.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I do, I do... in a surge. $9 tag after a concert/sports event to take people on min fare ride = $12.20 or ~$6.10/mile! (this is why it's silly for drivers to complain about short rides when it's busy out)
> 
> New? Have you seen a taxi cab in NYC anytime in the last 10 years? Or corporate owned fleet cars?
> They've been Prius for quite some time now.
> ...


Yet Uber did not want Crown Vics because " FLEET" !
HOW IRONIC.



Michael - Cleveland said:


> I do, I do... in a surge. $9 tag after a concert/sports event to take people on min fare ride = $12.20 or ~$6.10/mile! (this is why it's silly for drivers to complain about short rides when it's busy out)
> 
> New? Have you seen a taxi cab in NYC anytime in the last 10 years? Or corporate owned fleet cars?
> They've been Prius for quite some time now.
> ...


UBER spends More on Endless Recruitment
Than Driver Pay !


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Police couldn't realistically catch anyone in that thing :rollseyes:


Have you driven a Prius or just hate them because?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Cassiopeia said:


> Have you driven a Prius or just hate them because?


Ive BEEN trying to buy one surplus for pizza.
Dont want to spend over $1,500.00 though.

Came close a few times.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

Antagonizing aside, the Prius is great for it's gas mileage, reliability, and relatively low maintenance cost. That makes a used Prius one of the better options for rideshare.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Yet Uber did not want Crown Vics because " FLEET" !
> HOW IRONIC.
> 
> 
> ...


That's the nature of the beast. In a competitive environment, sales & marketing is going to be a large percentage of expense.With the stakes as high as they are, it's no wonder... and investors understand that.



tohunt4me said:


> Ive BEEN trying to buy one surplus for pizza.
> Dont want to spend over $1,500.00 though.
> 
> Came close a few times.


Auctions - but you'll likely have to put up to $2,000 in an auction car. $1,500 is going to be tough to get a reliable ready for the road Prius. $2,500 is doable.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Cassiopeia said:


> Not necessarily true. There are costs exceeding pay.


There is but in reference in the wording the article no. (...$1.40 of that goes to drivers).

Okay let's take a step back and put some real accounting classification on things. All of these promotions are not an employee and/or contractor expense. That is an operational expense, they could let nature take its course and let it surge at those times.

It would put more money in both Uber and drivers pocket a like. However Uber objectives is growth not profit so promotions. This include the car program btw. Over saturated market is the other foot to their growth campaign.

So stop trying to lump those expenses as due to having a driver behind the wheel.

What this article is really saying is if there was no driver Uber operation expense would be cut by 75% which is bull. It is a reason that was included at the very top and is almost unrelated to the rest of the article.

This is an SDC article in poor disguise.



Cassiopeia said:


> Have you driven a Prius or just hate them because?


I don't hate a Prius but it can't catch the vast majority of cars on the road as a complete and otter fact.

It's a has poor acceleration and a low top speed. That is fine for rideshare but horrible for law enforcement.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> There is but in reference in the wording the article no. (...$1.40 of that goes to drivers).
> 
> Okay let's take a step back and put some real accounting classification on things. All of these promotions are not an employee and/or contractor expense. That is an operational expense, they could let nature take its course and let it surge at those times.
> 
> ...


FWIW, I can't recount for you the number of times in the last year I have been paid $$ for a ride that Uber received ZERO from, example: Rider pays $21.50 flat fare - I get $20 in earnings... and after 'fees', Uber get's ZIP. Yes, there are also plenty of times I get peanuts (min fare $3.20 or whatever) and with fees, Uber is getting $5 or $6. But I do not doubt for a minute that it costs Uber (on average) $1.40 per paid trip-mile to keep a driver on the road. There is a reason the TNCs lose so much money every year and are in such a rush to replace as many drivers as possible with autonomous cars.


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## MothMan (May 15, 2016)

Prius having the lowest operating cost is OLD news.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> FWIW, I can't recount for you the number of times in the last year I have been paid $$ for a ride that Uber received ZERO from, example: Rider pays $21.50 flat fare - I get $20 in earnings... and after 'fees', Uber get's ZIP. Yes, there are also plenty of times I get peanuts (min fare $3.20 or whatever) and with fees, Uber is getting $5 or $6. But I do not doubt for a minute that it costs Uber (on average) $1.40 per paid trip-mile to keep a driver on the road. There is a reason the TNCs lose so much money every year and are in such a rush to replace as many drivers as possible with autonomous cars.


You didn't fully read my response.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> lol... if you haven't owned a Prius, it's hard to believe just how much 'fun' and comfortable they are.
> (when I need/want, I can blow most cars away from a standstill by putting my Prius into 'power mode'.)
> And for me, there's nothing more fun than racking up $100 in earnings in 2-3 hours for 1 gallon of gas. :smiles:
> 
> ...


I've driven a Prius and yes, they have a good amount of torque due to the electric motor. They're not as plain-Jane as some compact cars.

I can easily see why they're fleet cars. Toyota reliability with great gas mileage. Kind of a no brainer. If my career was in Uber then it would be my top choice, assuming I wasn't interested in the higher trim services.

You make $100 in 2-3 hours? Hmmm. You must be in a REALLY good market. $50-$33 an hour.


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ...and do 4 rides every two days in a $40,000 vehicle that get's 16MPG. (No thanks, BTDT)
> I'll drive my Prius during the week and then an XL (old minivan) on weekend nights.


You have your formula, I have mine. As long as it works for you.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I don't hate a Prius but it can't catch the vast majority of cars on the road as a complete and otter fact.
> 
> It's a has poor acceleration and a low top speed. That is fine for rideshare but horrible for law enforcement.


You have a Hollywood view of police. It's rare that a cop car needs to catch another car. I'm not even sure how that works? They ram them off the road?? They have cameras, friends in cars, helicopters, and ability to shut down roads completely.


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## 2kwik4u (Aug 27, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> The reason rideshare is unprofitable isn't because Uber/Lyft spends $1.40 per mile on drivers. FLAT OUT LIE, I challenge anyone to produce a shred of evidence to back that up.


Challenge accepted......Here's my data from Friday and Saturday night.

Average cost of rider is $4.56/mi. Average paid to driver is $2.48/mi (Average 44.53% take rate by Uber). Gotta think this is on the high end of markets worldwide, but who knows. This is a small sample of 34 rides.










Couple interesting points there.....Ride #4 on the 14th....Uber paid me more than it collected. No idea why. Also noticed a few times that a "minimum fare supplement" was paid as well as surge pricing. Seems counter-intuitive, but I'll take their money.

I'm working on putting my entire Uber Career into this spreadsheet. I might toss this on Google Sheets so it's easier to share.....we'll see.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> There is but in reference in the wording the article no. (...$1.40 of that goes to drivers).
> 
> Okay let's take a step back and put some real accounting classification on things. All of these promotions are not an employee and/or contractor expense. That is an operational expense, they could let nature take its course and let it surge at those times.
> 
> ...


You have NO idea what you're talking about... why do people who don't know anything about something make comments like that?
First, when in ANY situation, is it the purpose of a street vehicle to 'catch' anything?
Second, my Prius will DUST any unsuspecting car out of the gate from a stop (yeah, they may catch up - but'll I'll already be at the speed limit - enjoying 50MPG. You really don't understand the torque produced by an electric motor in a vehicle. There's a reason Telsa's go 0-60 in 3 seconds (and TEsla 3's do it 5.x secs).
For comparative purposes:​A Supercharged 349HP Mercedes SLK does 0-60 in 4.9 seconds.​A 2015 Acura ILX, Tech Pkg does 0-60 in 8.3 seconds​A 2012 Prius does 0-60 in 10 seconds (*but does 0-35 MPH in under 4 seconds* - which is what we normally drive on the street).​
If you need more get-up-and-go than that to drive people from point A-B for $.64/mi, you're probably not going to be profitable no matter what you drive.



2kwik4u said:


> Challenge accepted......Here's my data from Friday and Saturday night.
> 
> Average cost of rider is $4.56/mi. Average paid to driver is $2.48/mi (Average 44.53% take rate by Uber). Gotta think this is on the high end of markets worldwide, but who knows. This is a small sample of 34 rides.
> 
> ...


It's not unusual for Uber to pay a driver most of what they collect from a rider. They quote the rider a fixed price, and then for whatever reason (surge, bonus, whatever, different route than expected) they pay the driver time, mileage and whatever perks. It happens a lot when it's very busy. (not often enough for my taste!)

And the "minimum fare supplement" is when you've picked up a rider who is paying a surge... and the trip is long enough that Uber in it's benevolence, determines you should get a piece of that pie. (THIS is the biggest complaint some of us drivers have: we never know what we are earning on a ride anymore).


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Cassiopeia said:


> You have a Hollywood view of police. It's rare that a cop car needs to catch another car. I'm not even sure how that works? They ram them off the road?? They have cameras, friends in cars, helicopters, and ability to shut down roads completely.


My best friend is a cop I'm well aware of what they can and can't do.

People do run from tickets all the time. Most times a cop will stay in pursuit until back is there before they move in.

A Prius is honestly incapable of accomplishing that task.

In other words if some runs a red light in front of a cop with a Prius and doesn't stop then that car is just gone.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TPAMB said:


> You have your formula, I have mine. As long as it works for you.


Truth. I know people who prefer fewer rides at higher $ - and they do ok... usually as much as I do. (sometimes it's crash it burn - but that happens to us all)


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

2kwik4u said:


> Challenge accepted......Here's my data from Friday and Saturday night.
> 
> Average cost of rider is $4.56/mi. Average paid to driver is $2.48/mi (Average 44.53% take rate by Uber). Gotta think this is on the high end of markets worldwide, but who knows. This is a small sample of 34 rides.
> 
> ...


UberX? Are these the rates for you in Louisville?

*UberX*
Base Fare: $1
Per Minute: $0.15
Per Mile: $0.95
Cancellation Fee: $5
Service Fee: $1.60


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My best friend is a cop I'm well aware of what they can and can't do.
> 
> People do run from tickets all the time. Most times a cop will stay in pursuit until back is there before they move in.
> 
> ...


In other words - you want to drive a car for rideshare that can out-run law enforcement.
Brilliant - I hadn't thought of that! <smh> 
Hey, it's your choice. Me, I'll earn more than you for every mile I drive, and just obey the law.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My best friend is a cop I'm well aware of what they can and can't do.
> 
> People do run from tickets all the time. Most times a cop will stay in pursuit until back is there before they move in.
> 
> ...


What car do you drive, dare I ask


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You have NO idea what you're talking about... why do people who don't know anything about something make comments like that?
> First, when in ANY situation, is it the purpose of a street vehicle to 'catch' anything?
> Second, my Prius will DUST any unsuspecting car out of the gate from a stop (yeah, they may catch up - but'll I'll already be at the speed limit - enjoying 50MPG. You really don't understand the torque produced by an electric motor in a vehicle. There's a reason Telsa's go 0-60 in 3 seconds (and TEsla 3's do it 5.x secs).
> For comparative purposes:​A Supercharged 349HP Mercedes SLK does 0-60 in 4.9 seconds.​A 2015 Acura ILX, Tech Pkg does 0-60 in 8.3 seconds​A 2012 Prius does 0-60 in 10 seconds (*but does 0-35 MPH in under 4 seconds* - which is what we normally drive on the street).​
> ...


A Prius is not a Tesla. They are not the same at all.

I say a slow Nissan Altima is uncatchable by a Prius. Here's proof for you "experts" ?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

losiglow said:


> I've driven a Prius and yes, they have a good amount of torque due to the electric motor. They're not as plain-Jane as some compact cars.
> 
> I can easily see why they're fleet cars. Toyota reliability with great gas mileage. Kind of a no brainer. If my career was in Uber then it would be my top choice, assuming I wasn't interested in the higher trim services.
> 
> You make $100 in 2-3 hours? Hmmm. You must be in a REALLY good market. $50-$33 an hour.


Generally I only drive a couple of hours at night these days - when it's non-stop busy and a good chance of 'tags" for anywhere from $3-$9... and the rides are just going around the block. You can do that in a city. Not so much in a suburb or in Budunk, ND.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> In other words - you want to drive a car for rideshare that can out-run law enforcement.
> Brilliant - I hadn't thought of that! <smh>
> Hey, it's your choice. Me, I'll earn more than you for every mile I drive, and just obey the law.


My quote was to a cop car that was a Prius.

Prius's are perfect for rideshare but seeing a Prius decked out for law enforcement was ridiculous.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

LoL @ arguing about car speed. Obviously it's a non-issue with RS. I _like_ having a car with a bit of oomph but it obviously has no bearing on RS other than using more gas and pushing your overhead higher with more fuel consumption.

Frankly, I simply drive with the car I have. I'm not going to go buy a different car to do RS. I have a 2012 Acura TL, which is a fancy Honda, so it's reliable and parts are cheap. It's fun and can do Select which is icing on the cake. But if I had a Prius when I started RS, that's likely what I'd be driving now


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

losiglow said:


> LoL @ arguing about car speed. Obviously it's a non-issue with RS. I _like_ having a car with a bit of oomph but it obviously has no bearing on RS other than using more gas and pushing your overhead higher with more fuel consumption.
> 
> Frankly, I simply drive with the car I have. I'm not going to go buy a different car to do RS. I have a 2012 Acura TL, which is a fancy Honda, so it's reliable and parts are cheap. It's fun and can do Select which is icing on the cake. But if I had a Prius when I started RS, that's likely what I'd be driving now


I was arguing about car speed for law enforcement not rideshare.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

I don't believe a Prius for any sort of pursuit isn't going to work well. Their high speed acceleration is poor. But the need to quickly pass someone on the freeway isn't likely to be a common scenario in RS. As a cop car however......

Could work fine for traffic cops. And kind of like the British when they need a firearm unit - they have to call it in. If a Prius patrol cruiser needed to pursue a fleeing car, they'd have to call in the Charger, Impala, Taurus, etc.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> How did you become a moderator, you're not very bright. My quote was to a cop car that was a Prius.
> 
> Prius's are perfect for rideshare but seeing a Prius decked out for law enforcement was ridiculous.
> View attachment 358467


Arguing with personal insults is always a winning tactic. I've seen the Prius as a cop car multiple times. It's not like the thing has a top speed of 60mph. 0-60 is only one factor in a car chase. How about the range? Your Hollywood criminal running from the cops is gonna run out of gas!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> A Prius is not a Tesla. They are not the same at all.
> 
> I say a slow Nissan Altima is uncatchable by a Prius. Here's proof for you "experts" ?
> 
> View attachment 358466


right - AWD SV - but that's besides the point. You don't drive to CATCH anything when driving rideshare.
Do you not understand that? You also don't seem to understand that the 2.5 seconds difference between the Altima and the Prius is all in those last 2.5 seconds. Up till the city/residential speed limit of 35 MPH the Prius is right there - or ahead of - the Altima.
You may need to 'beat someone off the line' once in a while, in order to get into the lane you want - and you will do that every time in a Prius because the car next to you isn't expecting you to take off.












TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My quote was to a cop car that was a Prius.
> 
> Prius's are perfect for rideshare but seeing a Prius decked out for law enforcement was ridiculous.
> View attachment 358467


Who, in this thread, ever suggested using a Prius as a 'cop car'? And what does that have to do with the topic of the thread, which is using a Prius to make a profit in rideshare.


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## 2kwik4u (Aug 27, 2019)

Cassiopeia said:


> UberX? Are these the rates for you in Louisville?
> 
> *UberX*
> Base Fare: $1
> ...


Yeap, UberX in Louisville, KY - Some include surge that aren't marked.

Here's what I see:
Base Fare: $0.75
Per Minute: $0.1125
Per Mile: $0.7576
Cancellation Fee: $3.75
Service Fee: $Variable - Changes every time
Booking Fee: $Variable - Changes every time


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I was arguing about car speed for law enforcement not rideshare.


Why? What does that have to do with the thread?
If you want to make that case (and I'd likely agree with you for most cases) do it somewhere other than the NEWS section. You are Hijacking this thread with irrelevant nonsense.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

> Who, in this thread, ever suggested using a Prius as a 'cop car'? And what does that have to do with the topic of the thread, which is using a Prius to make a profit in rideshare.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Why? What does that have to do with the thread?
> If you want to make that case (and I'd likely agree with you for most cases) do it somewhere other than the NEWS section. You are Hijacking this thread with irrelevant nonsense.


Actually I was only responding to what Cassiopeia posted. He brought up Prius's as cop cars


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Actually I was only responding to what Cassiopeia posted. He brought up Prius's as cop cars


I'll leave it local LE to determine what works for them.



losiglow said:


> View attachment 358482


lol... yeah - back on track now due to cooperation from ALL.



TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I was arguing about car speed for law enforcement not rideshare.


I get what you're saying - but you're ignoring that cops use all kinds of transport, including horseback, bicycles and Segways.
The right tool for the job (and here comes the relevant part...) The very reason that many police Dept's use Priuses as part of their 'fleet' of vehicles is because they cost less to operate, saving the dep'ts a lot of money... just as they do rideshare drivers.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Closest I get to a Prius is my wife's car. And that is too close.


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## 2kwik4u (Aug 27, 2019)

@TheDevilisaParttimer Any thoughts on the data I posted?

In an attempt to re-rail the currently de-railed thread


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## mikees3 (Nov 9, 2018)

losiglow said:


> For sure. Didn't read the whole article but anything to reduce overhead is good :thumbup:
> 
> I enjoy driving a car that's a bit more fun and comfortable. That costs me more in overhead. But it's worth the added cost for me. And Select rides make up for some of that. I couldn't drive a Prius around for more than a couple hours before I went crazy. Props to you that can.


If it's that your car in the dp I wouldn't really say a TL is "fun" car but I get what ur saying Prius is for the FT guys


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

losiglow said:


> I don't believe a Prius for any sort of pursuit isn't going to work well.


Hey, in my Prius I have have caught up with 8 of the 10 joggers I was chasing.



mikees3 said:


> If it's that your car in the dp I wouldn't really say a TL is "fun" car but I get what ur saying Prius is for the FT guys


I bought mine to use so I could X rides again (was doing only XL & Select) - but I have never driven FT. I ended up liking the Prius so much I sold my minivan (XL), sedan(Select) and SUV (XL & SELECT) - and bought a second Prius. I now drive the Prius for nearly all of my personal driving (except when it's time for top-down or 'track' driving, lol). It's been a year and I've said over $200/mo in fuel compared to driving my 16 MPG Acadia. I'm just now looking to get another cheap minivan (for XL). So, I'm not sure that a used Prius os ony for FT. At least for me, it's for 'anytime'.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

2kwik4u said:


> Challenge accepted......Here's my data from Friday and Saturday night.
> 
> Average cost of rider is $4.56/mi. Average paid to driver is $2.48/mi (Average 44.53% take rate by Uber). Gotta think this is on the high end of markets worldwide, but who knows. This is a small sample of 34 rides.
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed this post some how ?

Your numbers look to be a about typical to me but I'm not sure how this offers evidence of a cost of $1.40/mile to driver(if that was your intent)

Anyway like the spreadsheet.


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## 2kwik4u (Aug 27, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Sorry I missed this post some how ?
> 
> Your numbers look to be a about typical to me but I'm not sure how this offers evidence of a cost of $1.40/mile to driver(if that was your intent)
> 
> Anyway like the spreadsheet.


That was the intent. However, upon thinking about it more this isn't really a cost per driver it's closer to Ubers income per driver per mile. I was thinking backwards earlier.

Cost per driver is different. Interestingly enough though if you take the articles $1.90/mi driver earnings and compare it to the $1.45/mi cost.....it shows that same ellusive 30% take rate they keep claiming.

Even my data shows that to be incorrect.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

2kwik4u said:


> this isn't really a cost per driver it's closer to Ubers income per driver per mile. I


Two things about AVERAGES: 
1) They apply to absolutely everyone over-all, and
2) they apply to absolutely no one in-particular.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The cool thing.

Their hypothetical math is $1.40 per mile to get a profit or 85c

$1.40 is up to 500% higher than what some drivers get.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Actually is more like a STOLEN PRIUS in a low cost state like TX... Only way this gig is profitable.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> lol... if you haven't owned a Prius, it's hard to believe just how much 'fun' and comfortable they are.
> (when I need/want, I can blow most cars away from a standstill by putting my Prius into 'power mode'.)
> And for me, there's nothing more fun than racking up $100 in earnings in 2-3 hours for 1 gallon of gas. :smiles:
> 
> ...


You almost convinced me.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

goneubering said:


> You almost convinced me.


I was always a 'big car' guy for rideshare: Big sedans, big minivans, big SUVs.
As fares and payouts dropped and gas prices went up I had to rethink it. Driving only XL/Select was just boring - and expensive. A fellow driver convinced me that he could take any ride and still be profitable because he drove a 2008 Prius. I figured I'd try it and bought one that I knew I could sell without losing any money. Found it to be the perfect car for Uber: riders love talking about the car, the 3D displays, how the engine & battery work. Everyone is impressed with how roomy they are inside and how much power they have (because I drive like an idiot at times).

With the Prius I can drive weekday evenings and actually come out ahead. (Admittedly, I don't think it would ever be my only car. But I've never been a one-car kinda guy, so it fits in my work vehicle toolbox)


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

2kwik4u said:


> Challenge accepted......Here's my data from Friday and Saturday night.
> 
> Average cost of rider is $4.56/mi. Average paid to driver is $2.48/mi (Average 44.53% take rate by Uber). Gotta think this is on the high end of markets worldwide, but who knows. This is a small sample of 34 rides.
> 
> ...


LOLOLOLOLLLLLLOLOLOlololollllllll

You have much to learn young padawan.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> lol... if you haven't owned a Prius, it's hard to believe just how much 'fun' and comfortable they are.
> (when I need/want, I can blow most cars away from a standstill by putting my Prius into 'power mode'.)
> And for me, there's nothing more fun than racking up $100 in earnings in 2-3 hours for 1 gallon of gas. :smiles:
> 
> ...


Hey Bud, your dreamin'. 1 gal of gas you went 50 miles and made $100. Doesn't happen very often. I say BS.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Common sight in NYC. Berlin Germany PD also uses Prius


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

2kwik4u said:


> Challenge accepted......Here's my data from Friday and Saturday night.
> I'm working on putting my entire Uber Career into this spreadsheet. I might toss this on Google Sheets so it's easier to share.....we'll see.


Sidetrack:
If you could find a way to create an automated data dump macro that deposits these figures and does the calculations into a spreadsheet, you can create a handy and marketable app.

I should look in Uber and Lyft's website on the driver dashboard (equivalent) to see if that's possible. I haven't looked in awhile. Does it have a .CSV option ?


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

Anyone with a brain can see that clearly half the battle is getting someone in your vehicle. After that you need appropriate pricing. It should start high and taper off. What Uber does instead though is takes it's profit where it matters most to drivers. What I mean by that is we have set costs per ride that Uber is taking and using as the bulk of their revenue generation. This piece of garbage company should have never been allowed to go public under this blatantly horrible model that a math challenged child would produce on their worst day. They should be taking off the top, not the bottom. What a joke of a company. It's inevitable that it will come back hard to bite them. A business as unethical as this has no way of continuing on like this. It might have worked in a different universe. Not in this one.


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## 2kwik4u (Aug 27, 2019)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> Sidetrack:
> If you could find a way to create an automated data dump macro that deposits these figures and does the calculations into a spreadsheet, you can create a handy and marketable app.
> 
> I should look in Uber and Lyft's website on the driver dashboard (equivalent) to see if that's possible. I haven't looked in awhile. Does it have a .CSV option ?


The drivers website has a .csv option currently. However it only works hit and miss for me. Often times it won't work in Chrome, and will work in IE, other times it just won't work at all. The formatting is atrocious as well when it comes in.

I've been planning on writing a vba script at some level to import these into a more legible spreadsheet to do better/more data anlaysis on. Just haven't gotten around to it. Been doing lots of gear life calculations at work, and have an 8yr old and 2yr old at home that need some time. I hug my wife every now and then too......  ......Anywho, if I develop something I'll be sure to share. Would be nice to get some way to quickly and easily get this information into every drivers hands. Help us all make better informed decisions.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

lyft_rat said:


> Hey Bud, your dreamin'. 1 gal of gas you went 50 miles and made $100. Doesn't happen very often. I say BS.


Considering I've been at this since rideshare started here April 2014 (when Uber started here), I ain't dreamin'... 
lol!

Of course it doesn't happen that often... but enough to make it more than worth it to drive a Prius for rideshare.
An average 3 hour evening of back-to-back short rides in the city during busy times with $3 tags consists of maybe 10 rides, paying around $75 and driving no more than 20 miles. That's less than a half gallon of gas. That's ~$75 earned in 3 hours at a fuel cost of under $2. Most nights, I leave home to drive with the gas gauge on full - and return home a few hours later with it still on full or down 1 mark (the Prius fuel gauge has 10 marks, 1 for ea gal.)



Dammit Mazzacane said:


> Sidetrack:
> If you could find a way to create an automated data dump macro that deposits these figures and does the calculations into a spreadsheet, you can create a handy and marketable app.
> 
> I should look in Uber and Lyft's website on the driver dashboard (equivalent) to see if that's possible. I haven't looked in awhile. Does it have a .CSV option ?


Many, many of us have tracked every detail in spreadsheets - it takes a lot of time and effort and ends up showing us what we already know. Most drivers just stop doing that after a month because driving is so unprofitable to begin with that spending the extra time doing all that work is not only a pain - it's depressing.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

German cops not using a BMW, Benz or VW/Audi? Heresy!


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

Did someone dig this article out of 2014?


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## Jack Marrero (Oct 24, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I was always a 'big car' guy for rideshare: Big sedans, big minivans, big SUVs.
> As fares and payouts dropped and gas prices went up I had to rethink it. Driving only XL/Select was just boring - and expensive. A fellow driver convinced me that he could take any ride and still be profitable because he drove a 2008 Prius. I figured I'd try it and bought one that I knew I could sell without losing any money. Found it to be the perfect car for Uber: riders love talking about the car, the 3D displays, how the engine & battery work. Everyone is impressed with how roomy they are inside and how much power they have (because I drive like an idiot at times).
> 
> With the Prius I can drive weekday evenings and actually come out ahead. (Admittedly, I don't think it would ever be my only car. But I've never been a one-car kinda guy, so it fits in my work vehicle toolbox)


Driving my Prius 3rd gen, has helped me survive the low season in Miami.
$23 of has is good to drive 500 miles.
Besides, the Prius is tough as nails.
I'm 5000 rides and 140kiles, all the doors keep on closing smoothly and 
Both engines and battery still strong.
Maintenance, has been pretty much antifreeze, oil changes and air filters.
I don't want any other car to do rideshare.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jack Marrero said:


> Driving my Prius 3rd gen, has helped me survive the low season in Miami.
> $23 of has is good to drive 500 miles.
> Besides, the Prius is tough as nails.
> I'm 5000 rides and 140kiles, all the doors keep on closing smoothly and
> ...


Drifitng off topic a bit, but I have been stunned at how low maintenance my gen 3 has been. Purchased with 170,000 on the clock - now at 230,000-ish. And all it's needed has been tires and oil changes - not even brakes yet.



dirtylee said:


> Actually is more like a STOLEN PRIUS in a low cost state like TX... Only way this gig is profitable.


how do you register and insure a stolen Prius in Texas - curious minds want to know!! :wink:


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## Erin C Banning (Jul 3, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Whole article is trash, honestly I just stop reading it.
> 
> The reason rideshare is unprofitable isn't because Uber/Lyft spends $1.40 per mile on drivers. FLAT OUT LIE, I challenge anyone to produce a shred of evidence to back that up.


Yeah, those numbers are unrealistically optimistic for drivers in my experience. It would be an unbelievably good day to have paying passengers in the car 50% of the time --> the best I normally manage is 40-45% (for example) (and that's during the best, most busy times)


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## CDP (Nov 11, 2018)

What about Florida, where vehicle requirements are 2017 or newer?


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## UberPasco (Oct 18, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Drifitng off topic a bit, but I have been stunned at how low maintenance my gen 3 has been. Purchased with 170,000 on the clock - now at 230,000-ish. And all it's needed has been tires and oil changes - not even brakes yet.


Jumping in...... I bought my 2012 Prius V at the end of 2015 with 33K on it. Now at 107K. Just repl tires ($500), had a gasket replaced for a slight leak under warranty ($0), Oil every 7K or so ($600), wipers every 5-6 months ($150), headlight bulbs x2 ($45), and a bottle of Dri-Gas because a station had water in gas ($10) and was at 48.5 mpg before tire replacement (now 44.5 :frown. Brakes are still at 70%+!
So total miles I've put on (74K) into expenses minus gas (1400) equals under $.02 per mile. Gas @ $2.50 adds about $.055 Depreciation from purchase ($14500 - 8000) / 74K = $.09 . Cost per EVERY mile driven (daily driver, not just RS/Flex) is under $.17

Tough to beat using anything other than a golf cart...


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## Jack Marrero (Oct 24, 2015)

CDP said:


> What about Florida, where vehicle requirements are 2017 or newer?


Lyft came up with the 2017 vehicle requirement so they could force new drivers to sign for their rentals.


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## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I was always a 'big car' guy for rideshare: Big sedans, big minivans, big SUVs.
> As fares and payouts dropped and gas prices went up I had to rethink it. Driving only XL/Select was just boring - and expensive. A fellow driver convinced me that he could take any ride and still be profitable because he drove a 2008 Prius. I figured I'd try it and bought one that I knew I could sell without losing any money. Found it to be the perfect car for Uber: riders love talking about the car, the 3D displays, how the engine & battery work. Everyone is impressed with how roomy they are inside and how much power they have (because I drive like an idiot at times).
> 
> With the Prius I can drive weekday evenings and actually come out ahead. (Admittedly, I don't think it would ever be my only car. But I've never been a one-car kinda guy, so it fits in my work vehicle toolbox)


 I drove a 2011 Prius for several years doing X and Toyota should hire me or send me a check for how many I've probably sold. Very neat cars.


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## 12345678 (Jan 8, 2019)

I’m in Phoenix and the back of my suburban says “NOTAPRIUS” I get so many 1 or 2 passengers who book xl just so they don’t have to ride in a Prius. Phoenix is a unique market with so many tourists and during our 9 month season xl is in high demand. It’s funny how so many Prius owners say their passengers think they are so big inside when my passengers say they don’t want to ride in a little car.


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## 2kwik4u (Aug 27, 2019)

12345678 said:


> I'm in Phoenix and the back of my suburban says "NOTAPRIUS" I get so many 1 or 2 passengers who book xl just so they don't have to ride in a Prius. Phoenix is a unique market with so many tourists and during our 9 month season xl is in high demand. It's funny how so many Prius owners say their passengers think they are so big inside when my passengers say they don't want to ride in a little car.


I drive a fullsize pickup......get the same response very often. Most are very excited about it, sparks a lot of conversations, and drives some of my tips as best I can tell.

Actually had a couple this weekend that said they had cancelled thier first ride because they guy was driving a Prius and they "Just couldn't deal with that tiny damn car again tonight". They were in town for a wedding, and were folling the wedding party around bar hopping with them, but the limo was full or something like that. They were very grateful to have the space of the pickup on their 18mi ride home after a long day in formal wear.


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## 12345678 (Jan 8, 2019)

I had 2 people yesterday who booked xl because earlier they were picked up in a 4 door Mini Cooper. They wondered how that qualified. I told them 4 doors and 4 seatbelts plus driver. I laugh when I see 4 people trying to get into a Prius that’s even without luggage.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

When I saw this Prius, I had to laugh at the license plate.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

losiglow said:


> German cops not using a BMW, Benz or VW/Audi? Heresy!


It can't be a true story!!


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Prius pursuit speed issues - not a problem!


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