# Checking Upfront Pricing for Scamming



## MiddleClassedOut (Jun 11, 2015)

People are still driving Uber despite the fact they're doing this...

Haven't been out in a while but I am going to get as many PAX as will let me check their fares today. 

I'm pretty sure just like on Uber, they are overcharging PAX and underpaying us. Especially on long rides, it is to a PAX's advantage to use the meter. Lyft's routes, which the fares are based on, are terrible usually, totally ignoring traffic and shortcuts.

Please post any large discrepencies.


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## Uberyouber (Jan 16, 2017)

Yea there is something going because, before Upfront pricing rides to places I go to cost $11-$12 dollars and $15-$16. When they switched to Upfront pricing, where you have to put in a destination, those ride increased by $3 and $5 respectively. Its some kinda scam, now I only use Lyft.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

MiddleClassedOut said:


> People are still driving Uber despite the fact they're doing this...
> 
> Haven't been out in a while but I am going to get as many PAX as will let me check their fares today.
> 
> ...


what pax pay and how much you get paid have Nothing to do with each other

you should only report a discrepancy if say you drove 10 miles, but they only paid you for 5

keep your hands out of Lyft and pax pockets, that's not the agreement you signed up for

your whole topic is a 3 year old issue brought up when UberPool hit the streets and everybody cried ripoff


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## LowRiderHyundai5000 (Jun 23, 2016)

Bart McCoy said:


> keep your hands out of Lyft and pax pockets, that's not the agreement you signed up for


I HOPE you are trolling.

When most of us signed up there were no upfront prices. Now, legal skimming takes place with each ride. If I wanted to quit, I would, but I don't mind caling out shady policy after shady policy.


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## Linux Geek (Jul 1, 2016)

Bart McCoy said:


> your whole topic is a 3 year old issue brought up when UberPool hit the streets and everybody cried ripoff


No, it's not. It is a recent issue brought about by Uber unethically giving itself a hidden pay raise. Lyft, which in my opinion is about as unethical as Uber, usually follows some shady Uber practice tit for tat.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

LowRiderHyundai5000 said:


> I HOPE you are trolling.
> 
> When most of us signed up there were no upfront prices. Now, legal skimming takes place with each ride. If I wanted to quit, I would, but I don't mind caling out shady policy after shady policy.


Once read, please read what I said: What pax pay, has NOTHING to do with what/how YOU get paid. When you signed up and upfront means nothing. Upfront prices is new for PAX,but what did I say? what pay pay has NOTHING to do with your salary. They may have changed something about how the pax pay, but did Lyft sent you a different pay schedule or anything about how YOU get paid? NO. Before and after the upfront pricing,you got paid by per mile and per minute. Period. That hasn't changed one bit.You didn't sign a contract that changed how you get paid. Hope you understand this now.



Linux Geek said:


> No, it's not. It is a recent issue brought about by Uber unethically giving itself a hidden pay raise. Lyft, which in my opinion is about as unethical as Uber, usually follows some shady Uber practice tit for tat.


No, its a recent issue that Lyft did some changes on how pax pay. But the theory of ripping off by Lyft is NOT recent, it actually came the day they started Lyft line!!! So again, this is nothing new. Lyft line, Uberpool, upfront pricing: they all follow the theory of ripping the driver off, so again, NOTHING NEW!!!!


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## Watup (Jan 24, 2017)

Its mind boggling how some people can't figure out there ride pay and then always blaming lyft n uber for cheating them n all . So here's my example of Chicago.
Per mile 90 cents 
Per minute 20 
You drove 10 miles in 30 minutes , ride total will be
$6 for time
$9 for miles driven 
So the total of ride is arnd $15 give n take few cents.
There is fees charged to pax and thats non of our business. So pls do ur math .


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Watup said:


> Its mind boggling how some people can't figure out there ride pay and then always blaming lyft n uber for cheating them n all . So here's my example of Chicago.
> Per mile 90 cents
> Per minute 20
> You drove 10 miles in 30 minutes , ride total will be
> ...


THANK YOU
Finally somebody gets it

Now if you drove 10 miles, but they only paid you 50 cents a mile, THEN you have an issue because your contract is 90cents/mile. So again, what the pax pay has NOTHING to do with the fact you get 90cents/mile regardless!!(and of course when you signed up you agreed to get paid different rates per mile/min depending on if you're doing pool or line,this is nothing new, you always knew how you were gonna get paid since day 1 !!!)


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## Watup (Jan 24, 2017)

Bart McCoy said:


> THANK YOU
> Finally somebody gets it
> 
> Now if you drove 10 miles, but they only paid you 50 cents a mile, THEN you have an issue because your contract is 90cents/mile. So again, what the pax pay has NOTHING to do with the fact you get 90cents/mile regardless!!(and of course when you signed up you agreed to get paid different rates per mile/min depending on if you're doing pool or line,this is nothing new, you always knew how you were gonna get paid since day 1 !!!)


 exactly but i can always guess my lyft line rit too , i track miles driven total and minutes, its just that in line we feel like we getting less cuz we drive less miles and more minutes .


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## LowRiderHyundai5000 (Jun 23, 2016)

Troll.


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## thegoodpackage (May 1, 2016)

The problem with this is it gives the passenger the impression that we are making more money than we actually are. This makes them less likely to tip on either platform.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

MiddleClassedOut said:


> People are still driving Uber despite the fact they're doing this...
> 
> Haven't been out in a while but I am going to get as many PAX as will let me check their fares today.
> 
> ...


It's pretty much a fact that uber secretly includes a 20% tip for themselves in the upfront pricing scam.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

thegoodpackage said:


> The problem with this is it gives the passenger the impression that we are making more money than we actually are. This makes them less likely to tip on either platform.


Exactly. Customer pays $48 and driver ends up getting $24.


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## Watup (Jan 24, 2017)

Ok , i am not big fan of uber or lyft but i drive rit now and its paying my bills, but dam few of you complaining here must really b delusional or on some kind of medication, i have taken lyft many times as a rider too, on pax receipt its always clearly stated About the fees thy charge, and every ride from 
O'Hare Midway McCormick place and Navy Pier have additional $5 fee tht goes to city . So no one is charging $48 and driver getting $24 lmao, and if you think they cheating you so much out of your money than why work these aholes , i won't, but i have given 3000 rides and not a single wrong fare, few cancelations not paid rit away but taken care by email .


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Watup said:


> Ok , i am not big fan of uber or lyft but i drive rit now and its paying my bills, but dam few of you complaining here must really b delusional or on some kind of medication, i have taken lyft many times as a rider too, on pax receipt its always clearly stated About the fees thy charge, and every ride from
> O'Hare Midway McCormick place and Navy Pier have additional $5 fee tht goes to city . So no one is charging $48 and driver getting $24 lmao, and if you think they cheating you so much out of your money than why work these aholes , i won't, but i have given 3000 rides and not a single wrong fare, few cancelations not paid rit away but taken care by email .


It's all sunshine and rainbows at big fuber.


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## MiddleClassedOut (Jun 11, 2015)

You people are mistaking the intent of my post. Drivers may be properly being paid time and miles, but passengers are being overcharged. Informing passengers is a good thing to do - I got a few more tips than normal yesterday after I informed people.


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## anteetr (Jan 24, 2017)

Uberyouber said:


> Yea there is something going because, before Upfront pricing rides to places I go to cost $11-$12 dollars and $15-$16. When they switched to Upfront pricing, where you have to put in a destination, those ride increased by $3 and $5 respectively. Its some kinda scam, now I only use Lyft.


Lyft does the exact same thing. Don't fall for the BS that they're any better.


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## Uberyouber (Jan 16, 2017)

anteetr said:


> Lyft does the exact same thing. Don't fall for the BS that they're any better.


But at least I can tip in the app riding Lyft. In fact it was the week they offered 50% rides. I tipped the driver $10. (In the App)


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

Lyft has the exact same UpFront pricing system that Uber does . As a driver you should be able to make more money now since you can take the longer distance route (as long as it doesn't add extra time to the ride pax won't care) 

My Lyft ride today made me an extra $6 compared to what I would have made before upfront pricing , taking the longer route that only adds one minute to the trip . I wouldn't have taken that route before upfront pricing more then likely . Pax still threw me $5 for a tip too


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> Exactly. Customer pays $48 and driver ends up getting $24.


This would only happen on the worst case scenario. But it would never be 100% twice the amount the pax(s) pay because if its a Line or Uberpool they are paying somewhat less than normal. (remember Uber and Lyft lose if you only get one set of pax on a Line/Uberpool, unless you believe they switch it to reg lyft or Uber X if you end up not picking up an addition pax).

In the utmost worst case scenario (probably better chance of winning the lottery) is if you picked up 4 people (which is 4 separate pax of 1 person each), drove them 10 miles, and they all went to the same location (4 diff people but lived in same apt complex). If the ride paid you $15, then Uber/Lyft would see close to $60 (again, never 100% 4 times the pax because you pay less to take a pool or line).

At events or even airports you may very well end up getting at least 2 pax at one location, but chances of them going to same are slim, however they may not be going that far apart. The less far apart they go, the more money Uber/Lyft make. They bank on this. And its working, otherwise they would cut Line/Pool out



MiddleClassedOut said:


> You people are mistaking the intent of my post. Drivers may be properly being paid time and miles, but passengers are being overcharged..


How end the world are they getting overcharged? Any pax that hops in is paying cheaper than the already cheap Uber X or regular Lyft fare. Overcharged? that just makes no sense


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> This would only happen on the worst case scenario. But it would never be 100% twice the amount the pax(s) pay because if its a Line or Uberpool they are paying somewhat less than normal. (remember Uber and Lyft lose if you only get one set of pax on a Line/Uberpool, unless you believe they switch it to reg lyft or Uber X if you end up not picking up an addition pax).
> 
> In the utmost worst case scenario (probably better chance of winning the lottery) is if you picked up 4 people (which is 4 separate pax of 1 person each), drove them 10 miles, and they all went to the same location (4 diff people but lived in same apt complex). If the ride paid you $15, then Uber/Lyft would see close to $60 (again, never 100% 4 times the pax because you pay less to take a pool or line).
> 
> ...


Driver is paid by mile and minute only.


Bart McCoy said:


> This would only happen on the worst case scenario. But it would never be 100% twice the amount the pax(s) pay because if its a Line or Uberpool they are paying somewhat less than normal. (remember Uber and Lyft lose if you only get one set of pax on a Line/Uberpool, unless you believe they switch it to reg lyft or Uber X if you end up not picking up an addition pax).
> 
> In the utmost worst case scenario (probably better chance of winning the lottery) is if you picked up 4 people (which is 4 separate pax of 1 person each), drove them 10 miles, and they all went to the same location (4 diff people but lived in same apt complex). If the ride paid you $15, then Uber/Lyft would see close to $60 (again, never 100% 4 times the pax because you pay less to take a pool or line).
> 
> ...


I was talking about uberX upfront scam. Pool I know pax can end up paying $1.99 a ride but driver is paid by miles/minutes.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> Driver is paid by mile and minute only.
> 
> I was talking about uberX upfront scam. s.


It doesn't matter which platform you take on Uber. If the upfront pricing told the pax $4, or even $40, if you drove 10 miles, you get paid 10 miles x $1.04/mile (or whatever the current rate is). I mean its that simple


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> It doesn't matter which platform you take on Uber. If the upfront pricing told the pax $4, or even $40, if you drove 10 miles, you get paid 10 miles x $1.04/mile (or whatever the current rate is). I mean its that simple


I understand how we are paid. The scam is uber takes in higher amount in the upfront fare, pays us per mile and per minute and keeps the difference, the commission(20-25-28%) and the booking fee.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> I understand how we are paid. The scam is uber takes in higher amount in the upfront fare, pays us per mile and per minute and keeps the difference, the commission(20-25-28%) and the booking fee.


True, but that's what we all signed up to


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Ask >25 miles pax if they have venmo.
If yes, ask what they paid upfront. Usually about $40.
Offer venmo "ride" for $30 - $35.


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## MyPerspective (Feb 14, 2017)

Bart McCoy said:


> what pax pay and how much you get paid have Nothing to do with each other
> 
> you should only report a discrepancy if say you drove 10 miles, but they only paid you for 5
> 
> ...


I've been driving Uber and Lyft for 2 years and I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to the debates about the legality of the ride share services/policies.

Until today.

How did it come to this mentality?

According to terms of service and documentation on Lyft website it clearly states lyft collects 20-25% commissions on TOTAL FARES. They also forwarned the rates of the fares and commisions may change at anytime.

WHEN did lyft notify drivers that they will collect 100% commision on fares of additional passengers picked up on a _matched_ lyft line?

I understand drivers get paid for time and mileage but according to policy - what lyft collects is still a _commission_ on total fares.

On passengers receipts it says "fares". These "fares" are charges for transpotation services.

This is an honest question. Did I miss something and can you point out where/when/how I was notified lyft can keep 100% of the fares?


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## Straygray (Jan 23, 2017)

Bart McCoy said:


> Once read, please read what I said: What pax pay, has NOTHING to do with what/how YOU get paid. When you signed up and upfront means nothing. Upfront prices is new for PAX,but what did I say? what pay pay has NOTHING to do with your salary. They may have changed something about how the pax pay, but did Lyft sent you a different pay schedule or anything about how YOU get paid? NO. Before and after the upfront pricing,you got paid by per mile and per minute. Period. That hasn't changed one bit.You didn't sign a contract that changed how you get paid. Hope you understand this now.
> 
> No, its a recent issue that Lyft did some changes on how pax pay. But the theory of ripping off by Lyft is NOT recent, it actually came the day they started Lyft line!!! So again, this is nothing new. Lyft line, Uberpool, upfront pricing: they all follow the theory of ripping the driver off, so again, NOTHING NEW!!!!


Bart, respectfully, you are wrong. What you state would be correct if we were employees and working for Uber. We are the contractors and technically paying Uber a commission; They are supposed to be working for us! If they are making side deals with our customers to increase their profit model and cutting us out, then they are becoming our employers and that is the problem. They enjoy the protections of us being subcontractors and employees at the same time and that cannot continue.


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

The fundamental problem is that Uber and lyft have published rates for mile and time these companies are so dishonest that they are charging more to the customer than their published rates . That is simply false advertising and That is illegal immoral and unethical . Any normal company would prorate the fee based on actual trip numbers . These companies make the taxis look legitimate for actually charging for what service was provided at the honest invoice . Every customer should be reinbusrted for the overcharges and lyft and Uber should be fined jailed and beaten in the streets for these criminal practices along with a long list of other knowingly illegal practices that they are involved in


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Watup said:


> Its mind boggling how some people can't figure out there ride pay and then always blaming lyft n uber for cheating them n all . So here's my example of Chicago.
> Per mile 90 cents
> Per minute 20
> You drove 10 miles in 30 minutes , ride total will be
> ...


It's none of our business but according to Uber the pax are OUR customers?

I understand that our pay hasn't changed, but that doesn't mean it's not shady and unethical. It's also very misleading to the pax, who already assume we get 80% of EVERYTHING they pay. This could conceivably affect our already poor tips, since it encourages them to think we're getting paid more than we are.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Fuber1 said:


> The fundamental problem is that Uber and lyft have published rates for mile and time these companies are so dishonest that they are charging more to the customer than their published rates . That is simply false advertising and That is illegal immoral and unethical . Any normal company would prorate the fee based on actual trip numbers . These companies make the taxis look legitimate for actually charging for what service was provided at the honest invoice . Every customer should be reinbusrted for the overcharges and lyft and Uber should be fined jailed and beaten in the streets for these criminal practices along with a long list of other knowingly illegal practices that they are involved in


The rider app (uber, no Lyft where I am) now says the price will be the price given OR according to the published rates. It should say "whichever is more", but they have covered their ass by saying the above.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Straygray said:


> Bart, respectfully, you are wrong. What you state would be correct if we were employees and working for Uber. We are the contractors and technically paying Uber a commission; They are supposed to be working for us! If they are making side deals with our customers to increase their profit model and cutting us out, then they are becoming our employers and that is the problem. They enjoy the protections of us being subcontractors and employees at the same time and that cannot continue.


Right, you are a CONTRACTOR, and you contracted to a set rate per mile and per minute, you did NOT contract to getting paid depending on how much the pax paid. So you can disagree, but I will respectfully say you are wrong.



Fuber1 said:


> The fundamental problem is that Uber and lyft have published rates for mile and time these companies are so dishonest that they are charging more to the customer than their published rates . That is simply false advertising and That is illegal immoral and unethical .


This may be true but its not your issue. It doesn't affect how uber pays you. They pay you according to the contract you signed when you started, which is per min and per mile. Why worry about other business's problems of being eithical or not? most people have enough personal things to worry about. As long as Uber is paying me what they agreed to when I signed up, then that's one less thing to worry about.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> It's none of our business but according to Uber the pax are OUR customers?
> 
> I understand that our pay hasn't changed, but that doesn't mean it's not shady and unethical. It's also very misleading to the pax, who already assume we get 80% of EVERYTHING they pay. This could conceivably affect our already poor tips, since it encourages them to think we're getting paid more than we are.


It's may very well be shady and unethical,but that's besides the point and basically none of the drivers (us) business. The name of the topic is Scamming, and Uber is NOT scamming you as a driver as long as they are paying you what you agree to when you signed up. Hopefully people understand this now


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

correction Uber should be Lyft in my reply above. But its all the same. When you signed up for Lyft you agreed to them paying you per mile and per minute, not from some total of a Lyft line that pax paid!!!


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## Wedgey (Feb 14, 2017)

Bart McCoy said:


> correction Uber should be Lyft in my reply above. But its all the same. When you signed up for Lyft you agreed to them paying you per mile and per minute, not from some total of a Lyft line that pax paid!!!


You're always right. Can't you be wrong just once.


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## PTUber (Sep 16, 2015)

thegoodpackage said:


> The problem with this is it gives the passenger the impression that we are making more money than we actually are. This makes them less likely to tip on either platform.


I don't think so. They are either going to tip or not. Has nothing to do with what their perception is of how much we make.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Wedgey said:


> You're always right. Can't you be wrong just once.


I mean I can be wrong sure, I don't know everything. But one thing I DO know is that nobody can show me a contract they have with Uber or Lyft that says if pool/line pax are paying double the fare, then that's how much they should get paid. I'm positive nobody has that


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

PTUber said:


> I don't think so. They are either going to tip or not. Has nothing to do with what their perception is of how much we make.


The desert driver would agree.


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## MyPerspective (Feb 14, 2017)

"_Any decision by a User to offer or accept Services is a decision made in such User's sole discretion. Each transportation Service provided by a Driver to a Rider shall constitute a *separate agreement *between such persons."

-Lyft terms of Service 9.30.16



Bart McCoy said:



I mean I can be wrong sure, I don't know everything. But one thing I DO know is that nobody can show me a contract they have with Uber or Lyft that says if pool/line pax are paying double the fare, then that's how much they should get paid. I'm positive nobody has that

Click to expand...

_
Drivers should be paid the variable rate (time and distance) for each additional line ride that is added according to LYFTS own Terms of Service.

I never received notification that Lyfts commission is 100% on "separate agreements."


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## thegoodpackage (May 1, 2016)

PTUber said:


> I don't think so. They are either going to tip or not. Has nothing to do with what their perception is of how much we make.


In most cases that is true but I'm trying to get as many tips and possible and some people may not tip because they think we make a lot of money.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Uberyouber said:


> Yea there is something going because, before Upfront pricing rides to places I go to cost $11-$12 dollars and $15-$16. When they switched to Upfront pricing, where you have to put in a destination, those ride increased by $3 and $5 respectively. Its some kinda scam, now I only use Lyft.


Lyft is a POS that does the exact same thing.


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