# Uber concealed carry policy



## Jesselee23

I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


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## StephenJBlue

Just carry a firearm, get your CCL. And don't tell pubert.


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## DocT

Sorry to hear that happen to you. Hope you're ok.
Sounds like Uber is impeding on an open investigation.


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## SECOTIME

Just get the license and carry. You won't need Uber if you get car jacked or are seriously injured or dead. Protect yourself. Never leave home without it.


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## TurboChris

It's far better to have a weapon that might save your life but loose your job if you need it......than the alternative.


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## UberNorthStar

I carry a travel-sized can of hairspray that remains in my driver's door compartment. Spraying it in the eyes gives you the chance to grab keys & cell phone & run. 

JM Way of Keeping Safe


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## ChicagoHeat12

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


WOW!!! Uber is a effing joke, as if it PAINS THEM to side with their drivers. I live in Chicago and have my ccl license. I carry my gun during all rides. Uber can kiss my coat tails. They could care less if I'm a victim.


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## rtaatl

Screw their so called "policy". If you shoot some poor bastard trying to rob you I'm sure Uber would deem you some sort of a hero. So don't worry about what they say in their emails.


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## Horsebm

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


That's BS !


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## Horsebm

I carry a, riding crop and I'll whip the skin off anyone who screws with me.


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## Jose_A

This just makes me even more pissed at DC's gun laws. I have a Virginia CCW and a Glock 19. Unfortunately, the do-gooders on the DC city government think it's better to empower criminals (they're criminals themselves) than to let law abiding citizens protect themselves, that kinda goes for Maryland too. If only DC and Maryland had the same respect for the right to self-defense that Virginia has, I'd never drive without my gun. I always carry my spyderco knife when I drive, and fortunately I've only ever had to pull it once, and it wasn't even on a pax.


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## Danz Haagen

second amendment is your permit.

anyway, knowing my temper. i know it is dangerous for me to have a lethal weapon like Glock lol....  But I do carry my fists at all times.


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## UberNorthStar

So that is what the message indicates.


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## Tightturns

LOL "ubers policy" ?!?

Are you an employee? No.

Carry a ****ing gun man, what are you doing leaving home without one, ever?!

A firearm should be with you at all times. You should have multiple firearms. Hell I have pistols stashed all over my home lol doesn't matter what room I'm in, I'm ready.


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## RCG Enterprises LLC

No problems here in Vegas.... I have two good old friends..... Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson...and they always there when you need them.. Uber can not forbid what you have in your car. Your car is your personal property.


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## RamzFanz

You don't work for Uber. Do what you want.


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## ranger0793

I think the rewards outweigh the risks. Besides if it is concealed nobody should see it or know it is there.


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## Robba Fett

What, last time I checked all that Uber had to say on the subject was that they encouraged not to carry but bottomline was that they expected drivers to follow local and state law. 
Which means that here in North Carolina, if you got a CC permit, you are pretty much in the clear to carry. Did something change or something?


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## merkurfan

Robba Fett said:


> What, last time I checked all that Uber had to say on the subject was that they encouraged not to carry but bottomline was that they expected drivers to follow local and state law.
> Which means that here in North Carolina, if you got a CC permit, you are pretty much in the clear to carry. Did something change or something?


Yes you did.

*UBER FIREARMS PROHIBITION POLICY*

We seek to ensure that everyone using the Uber digital platform-both driver-partners and riders-feels safe and comfortable using the service. During a ride arranged through the Uber platform, Uber and its affiliates therefore prohibit possessing firearms of any kind in a vehicle. Any rider or driver found to have violated this prohibition may lose access to the Uber platform.

To that I say, they are not checking the riders for weapons, they are not providing armed security for my car, eff them, if I am on my own I'll do my thing.. They can do theirs.


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## Robba Fett

Wow. When did this come out and why wasnt it sent to everyone?

And if they want my guns, they can come and get them.


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## merkurfan

Robba Fett said:


> Wow. When did this come out and why wasnt it sent to everyone?
> 
> And if they want my guns, they can come and get them.


https://www.uber.com/legal/other

no date given.


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## JimS

Funny - that legal page says that you *may* be removed from the platform if you violate a firearms rule, but if you discriminate "based on race, religion, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, sex, marital status, gender identity, age or any other characteristic protected under applicable federal or state law" you _*will*_ be remove.


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## Jose_A

Keep in mind that they basically have no choice but to remove you if you discriminate. That's federal law, and those are federally protected categories. Firearms on the other hand are legal provided one has the proper license to carry, and removing someone from the platform for legally concealed carrying in their own vehicle brings them to legal backwater.


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## Firemedic

I can't post the link yet, but the link that has to do with firearms must be old. 
I don't think this is part of the current website. I logged in to the site and can't find it. I also just took a closer look at the agreement (you know, the fine print!) and there is nothing about firearms. I specifically looked because, well, you know!


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## ranger0793

Firemedic said:


> I specifically looked because, well, you know!


I do know.

The thing is how would über ever know? If someone finds out you are carrying then they probably didn't live to tell about it.


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## TRW

Get your CCL and learn how to shoot and handle a firearm. I you do not have a handgun check with local shooting ranges to see if they have rentals that you can try out before buying a weapon. Better to spend $50 on rental and ammo and find a pistol that you feel comfortable shooting and keeping concealed.


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## cannonball7

merkurfan said:


> *UBER FIREARMS PROHIBITION POLICY*
> 
> Uber and its affiliates therefore prohibit possessing firearms of any kind in a vehicle. Any rider or driver found to have violated this prohibition may lose access to the Uber platform.


So what if the firearm is outside the vehicle? Also, may is highlighted for clarity. Won't most smart firearm owners use the gun outside of the vehicle?
Hypothetically you could say you stash the firearm in a secure spot on the outside or under the car.


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## nuggetnut

merkurfan said:


> We seek to ensure that everyone using the Uber digital platform-both driver-partners and riders-feels safe and comfortable using the service. During a ride arranged through the Uber platform, Uber and its affiliates therefore prohibit possessing firearms of any kind in a vehicle. Any rider or driver found to have violated this prohibition may lose access to the Uber platform.


I bet they are ok with me picking up a pax and taking them to the local shooting range...


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## ranger0793

[QUOTE="
Hypothetically you could say you stash the firearm in a secure spot on the outside or under the car.[/QUOTE]

I would never keep mine outside of the car. I want it to where I can get to it when I need it. Last think I want to have to do is jump out of my car to retrieve it.


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## bestpals

Robba Fett said:


> Wow. When did this come out and why wasnt it sent to everyone?
> 
> And if they want my guns, they can come and get them.


And Please Travis, you personally come and try to get mine.


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## cannonball7

ranger0793 said:


> I would never keep mine outside of the car. I want it to where I can get to it when I need it. Last think I want to have to do is jump out of my car to retrieve it.


Right on, I am with you on that. Suppose you were to design some minimal practical exterior car holster if you will? Don't use the exterior holster, just have it. If the stuff hits the fan and Uber tries to deactivate you, you could argue in court that the firearm was held in an exterior car frame holster.

Like I said, "Hypothetically you could say..."

If you wanna go James Bond (obviously not worth it) have a compartment built under the exterior of the car with an access panel or door where you could get to it quickly. Unless, you or someone you know works at a fab shop and could build and weld something on the cheap.


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## shiftydrake

Hey just like most former servicemen say "you can have me gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand"


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## Uberchampion

rtaatl said:


> Screw their so called "policy". If you shoot some poor bastard trying to rob you I'm sure Uber would deem you some sort of a hero. So don't worry about what they say in their emails.


If you shoot a pax regardless of the circumstances uber will drop you and the mainstream media will bury you. Carry a knife or Billy stick along with a dashcam.

God forbid you need to protect yourself. Please make sure you beat the crap out of the peice of shit.


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## SafeT

The prob with people carrying guns is that they are always looking for a reason to use one. Little men become big men. Once you pull a gun out as an Uber driver your life will be ruined. Your face will be all over the Internet and you will never get a real job anywhere again for the rest of your life. Computers don't forget your face or your name. This is the world we live in now.


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## cannonball7

SafeT said:


> The prob with people carrying guns is that they are always looking for a reason to use one. Little men become big men. Once you pull a gun out as an Uber driver your life will be ruined. Your face will be all over the Internet and you will never get a real job anywhere again for the rest of your life. Computers don't forget your face or your name. This is the world we live in now.


Repeated for truth.


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## nuggetnut

Let me see if I got this right. It's better to get shot or stabbed and continue driving after your recovery if you should survive? Or, defend myself and get deactivated?? Are you friggin kidding me? I'm not showing up at a gun fight with a knife or bat. If by pulling my weapon doesn't defuse a possible deadly situation, well then deactivation it is...


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## Matt Uterak

SafeT said:


> The prob with people carrying guns is that they are always looking for a reason to use one. Little men become big men. Once you pull a gun out as an Uber driver your life will be ruined. Your face will be all over the Internet and you will never get a real job anywhere again for the rest of your life. Computers don't forget your face or your name. This is the world we live in now.


I've carried a gun for 20 years. I've never looked for a reason to use it and never had to use it.

Your viewpoint is simply not accurate on the aggregate.


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## I_Like_Spam

Jose_A said:


> Keep in mind that they basically have no choice but to remove you if you discriminate. That's federal law, and those are federally protected categories.


I don't think that's true at all. It may be in their best interests to do so for public relations purposes, but you aren't the employee of Uber, just their customer purchasing the use of their technology platform. It is certainly legal to do business with someone who discriminates- although they don't have to.


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## Fauxknight

SafeT said:


> The prob with people carrying guns is that they are always looking for a reason to use one.


CCW holders commit dramatically fewer violent crimes than non CCW holders. Kansas numbers have violent crime at .5%, but CCW holders only at .09%.

Perhaps a few good gun courses and more CCW permits could cut the country's overall violent crime by around 80%...just kidding the same jerks will commit the crimes regardless. The point is that the average person who goes out of the way to get their CCW is better than the average person who does not.

Now I can point out that you are in the crime causing majority. DBag non CCW holders wrecking this country with their crazy violence, extra small genitals, and better than thou 'I don't carry a gun' message...


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## OrlandoUberX

When I drive I keep a SOG Aegis Folding Knife in my pocket and a Smith and Wesson M&P knife in a compartment under my steering wheel. In a close quarters area like a car, you don't want to be using a gun, or trying to pull one out. I do have my CCW and a few guns but I decided while I'm driving for Uber I don't want them in my vehicle.


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## Uber 1

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


If Uber is against concealed carry, is open carry OK?....In VA we can open carry legally and concealed carry requires a permit.

Andy


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## Uber 1

cannonball7 said:


> So what if the firearm is outside the vehicle? Also, may is highlighted for clarity. Won't most smart firearm owners use the gun outside of the vehicle?
> Hypothetically you could say you stash the firearm in a secure spot on the outside or under the car.


Hmmmm...so I guess you'd have to do like they do on the movies before a fight arises and ask them " Do you want to take this outside?"
I'm not sure Taco Bell guy or the Georgia Guy would do that ! (Yeah right!)

I wonder if you shoot a pax in self defense INSIDE your vehicle if you would get the $200 cleaning fee OR should you be entitled to more (assuming multiple shots and the possibility of bullet holes that would obviously cost more $$ than the $200 may cover.

Andy


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## Fauxknight

Uber's policy is against any firearm in the vehicle. Of course they've never told the drivers anything about it, the whole thing was primarily a PR release from sometime last year...like Julyish?


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## Thatendedbadly

Uber 1 said:


> If Uber is against concealed carry, is open carry OK?....In VA we can open carry legally and concealed carry requires a permit.
> 
> Andy


"As of July 1, 2010, a concealed handgun permit is not necessary when carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel. The term "secured" as used does not require the compartment to be locked. OAG opinion 11-111."

So by definition you're carrying a concealed weapon, which as you are probably aware is illegal without a permit in VA. Open carry the pistol, the best you might hope for is that the pax contacts Uber cs, worst case is they contact the police, you get arrested, gun confiscated, Uber account deactivated. Best bet is that you keep it in a glovebox or console compartment and hope that if someone sticks a gun behind your ear they won't shoot you as you're fumbling for your weapon. I own a Beretta 92fs, btw, if I felt unsafe to the point where I felt compelled to carry it I probably wouldn't drive for Uber, or Lyft for that matter.


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## Bart McCoy

Who cares about Uber's policy. If you have to pull your weapon that means your life was in danger. I'd rather have my life than not have it because of ubers policy....


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## Bart McCoy

Thatendedbadly said:


> "As of July 1, 2010, a concealed handgun permit is not necessary when carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel. The term "secured" as used does not require the compartment to be locked. OAG opinion 11-111."
> 
> So by definition you're carrying a concealed weapon, which as you are probably aware is illegal without a permit in VA. Open carry the pistol, the best you might hope for is that the pax contacts Uber cs, worst case is they contact the police, you get arrested, gun confiscated, Uber account deactivated. Best bet is that you keep it in a glovebox or console compartment and hope that if someone sticks a gun behind your ear they won't shoot you as you're fumbling for your weapon. I own a Beretta 92fs, btw, if I felt unsafe to the point where I felt compelled to carry it I probably wouldn't drive for Uber, or Lyft for that matter.


I wouldn't open carry, you're gonna scare all your pax. Just put it in the center console or glovebox. Pax robbing drivers at gunpoint is just not a common thing in any market. But anything can happen, anywhere.


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## Fauxknight

Thatendedbadly said:


> Open carry the pistol...worst case is they contact the police, you get arrested, gun confiscated,


While that could theoretically happen, you're talking gross violation of his rights if it did.

Most police when dealing with open carry peeps just have a little conversation with them about scaring fewer people.

Very likely you get reported to Uber and get your account disabled though.


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## Bart McCoy

Fauxknight said:


> Very likely you get reported to Uber and get your account disabled though.


THIS.
That's about the only thing that will happen. He wont get arrested nor will his gun get taken. Virginia is VERY gun friendly


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## Robba Fett

Gentlemen, I agree with a lot of your points, but I really do feel that I need to share a personal opinion on the matter. If you are thinking about carrying for self defense, please, for the love of all that is holy, do not use your vehicle as your holster, meaning that putting it in a compartment or glove box or anything like that. Carry it on yourself, preferably concealed. Reason behind this is this, if for some reason you are indeed attacked and overpowered before you can get to your weapon, you are in significantly worse condition than before. And also, violence isnt even necessary, say you go use the bathroom or get some food or something somewhere, and when you come out, your car has been broken into or is gone, guess what, you just gave the bad guy a gun too!
Getting your concealed carry permit and keepin your weapon on yourself with a comfortable IWB holster (Inside the Waist Band) is the way to go.


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## Greguzzi

When Uber does background checks on the passengers it asks me to carry and guarantees my safety, I will stop carrying. Until then, they have no right to tell me what I should do in my car.


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## nuggetnut

Robba Fett said:


> Gentlemen, I agree with a lot of your points, but I really do feel that I need to share a personal opinion on the matter. If you are thinking about carrying for self defense, please, for the love of all that is holy, do not use your vehicle as your holster, meaning that putting it in a compartment or glove box or anything like that. Carry it on yourself, preferably concealed. Reason behind this is this, if for some reason you are indeed attacked and overpowered before you can get to your weapon, you are in significantly worse condition than before. And also, violence isnt even necessary, say you go use the bathroom or get some food or something somewhere, and when you come out, your car has been broken into or is gone, guess what, you just gave the bad guy a gun too!
> Getting your concealed carry permit and keepin your weapon on yourself with a comfortable IWB holster (Inside the Waist Band) is the way to go.


Also if you need to exit your car in a hurry you don't want to leave it behind.


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## Phoenix666

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


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## Phoenix666

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


Carry. Bottom line is your safety. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.


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## Kalee

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


So, let's see.

- You're an "independent contractor"
-You are using YOUR personal, family auto
-You are putting your own life at risk while driving
-You are a responsible citizen following all laws 100% regarding concealed carry

But Uber is saying none of that matters. Travis is dick-tating that you are not allowed to protect yourself whilst in your personal property.

Hahahahahahaaaaa!!! Uber has no say in the matter!
You make sure you're ALWAYS legally caring for your protection, especially now that the Wal-Mart rates have brought out the worst of the worst pax. Keep it locked and loaded and close by.

Nobody... not even Uber... needs to know your business while you're running your business, Mr/Mrs. Independent Contractor.

#UberDriversLivesMatter


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## Tequila Jake

SafeT said:


> The prob with people carrying guns is that they are always looking for a reason to use one. Little men become big men. Once you pull a gun out as an Uber driver your life will be ruined. Your face will be all over the Internet and you will never get a real job anywhere again for the rest of your life. Computers don't forget your face or your name. This is the world we live in now.


1. People carrying guns are not always looking for a reason to use one. Everyone I know who carries never want to use it off the range.

2. If you have a legitimate reason to pull out the gun -- whether you are an Uber driver, or in any other job, or retired -- your life will be far less ruined than if you were dead.

An Uber driver shooting someone will make a sexy story for the news for a while. However, if it's found to be a legitimate use, the story will be dropped just as fast.


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## Kalee

Tequila Jake said:


> 1. People carrying guns are not always looking for a reason to use one. Everyone I know who carries never want to use it off the range.
> 
> 2. If you have a legitimate reason to pull out the gun -- whether you are an Uber driver, or in any other job, or retired -- your life will be far less ruined than if you were dead.
> 
> An Uber driver shooting someone will make a sexy story for the news for a while. However, if it's found to be a legitimate use, the story will be dropped just as fast.


 If it's legitimate use, it will never become a story - you'll never know it even happened. The media hates legitimate self defense stories where the good guy with a gun wins.


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## Oscar Levant

Phoenix666 said:


> Carry. Bottom line is your safety. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.


Nice sound bite, but your assumption that if you have a gun you will be judged by 12 instead of being carried by 6, is a false assumption. In truth, it's merely an assumption and should not be used to base one's decision to carry or not to carry a weapon. Can any of you who have never had a gun pulled on you honestly predict how you will react when someone does pull a gun on you at close range and you will probably be in a state of terror?

I had a gun pulled on me as a pedestrian and they forced into a car. Because I've a very calm personality and don't own a gun, I believe this save my life. I posed no threat to them, I gave them my wallet, and they let me go. Just remember this, real life isn't anything at all like a Dirty Harry movie.


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## simpsonsverytall

If I have guns, I think that the good-guys should be allowed to have guns too.


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## python134r

Kimba Pro Carry II, and / or Glock 30 G4. Sometimes both.


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## RichR

Kalee said:


> Travis is dicktating that you are not allowed to protect yourself


Or, Uber is simply following (good) legal advice.

That's where a LOT of these policies come from. They exist primarily (or only) to protect the corporation from liability.


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## Kalee

RichR said:


> Or, Uber is simply following (good) legal advice.
> 
> That's where a LOT of these policies come from. They exist primarily (or only) to protect the corporation from liability.


Per Uber, drivers are "independent" business owners. Non-employees of Uber. Entrepreneurs taking a big risk in a dangerous business.


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## RichR

Kalee said:


> Per Uber, drivers are "independent" business owners. Non-employees of Uber. Entrepreneurs taking a big risk in a dangerous business.


Very true. And, my point is, Trav & Co. may very well agree.

But, when the Kalamazoo shooter's victims and survivors file suit against Uber, having the official policy in place will go a long way to help Uber avoid legal and civil liability.


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## RogueGunny

UberNorthStar said:


> So that is what the message indicates.


They take it down? I get connection error every time I try to open that lol


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## RogueGunny

RichR said:


> Very true. And, my point is, Trav & Co. may very well agree.
> 
> But, when the Kalamazoo shooter's victims and survivors file suit against Uber, having the official policy in place will go a long way to help Uber avoid legal and civil liability.


And when MY family sues uber if I get killed on a run, that policy will be to their detriment.


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## UberPissed

My two cents - with any rule or law, you can prohibit, but you can't prevent. If you feel like you need a gun, carry one. The consequence of not having one when you need one may be death. The consequence of having one with uber is being fired.

I am pro gun, but a lot of people seem to fantasize about being able to shoot someone when the time comes, but never think about the psychological effect of killing another person. What if the person wasn't really a threat, and you made a bad call. Do you want that on your conscience?

I would opt for non-lethal measures, keep your head on a swivel, and trust your instincts. There is some left-over cave man sh-t in our DNA. Use it.


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## DieselkW

Let's see... less than minimum wage pay and 90% of participants in this discussion are advising "every" driver should get a conceal carry permit and a pistol.

So in addition to gas, insurance, car payments, tires, oil, etc... we have to add the cost of a permit, a firearm, and training to own a weapon every one of you pro gun drivers agree is never going to be used? How many rides given since Uber startup and no passengers have been shot, right?

A gun for protection against Uber passengers is a solution in search of a problem. Taco Bell guy is one of ... how many million rides? Percentage wise, one in a million is 4 or 5 decimal places? I've driven many hundreds of drunks without incident, certainly without having to shoot someone for being a belligerent drunk. 

So the question becomes, how many of you concealed carry advocates would have shot Taco Bell guy dead? 

You'd be like George Zimmerman, using deadly force against an unarmed assailant. 
That guy can't keep a job. Or a girlfriend. He's in his 16th minute of fame, has to sell his autograph and his gun to make ends meet.

Is that what you want? You really think you'll ever sleep the same again after taking a life from someone? Someone relatively defenseless? The odds simply don't support a call for drivers to bear arms. 

It changes you, and it changes you in a place you currently like. Do not take that responsibility lightly.


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## Fuzzyelvis

UberPissed said:


> My two cents - with any rule or law, you can prohibit, but you can't prevent. If you feel like you need a gun, carry one. The consequence of not having one when you need one may be death. The consequence of having one with uber is being fired.
> 
> I am pro gun, but a lot of people seem to fantasize about being able to shoot someone when the time comes, but never think about the psychological effect of killing another person. What if the person wasn't really a threat, and you made a bad call. Do you want that on your conscience?
> 
> I would opt for non-lethal measures, keep your head on a swivel, and trust your instincts. There is some left-over cave man sh-t in our DNA. Use it.


No matter what, all our ancestors survived at least long enough to reproduce...or as William James put it:

"We, the lineal representatives of the successful enactors of one scene of slaughter after another, must, whatever more pacific virtues we may also possess, still carry about with us, ready at any moment to burst into flame, the smoldering and sinister traits of character by means of which they lived through so many massacres, harming others, but themselves unharmed."


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## Squirming Like A Toad

Having an anti-gun policy *does not protect anyone from liability!* Nor are there are any "insurance regulations" mandating an anti-gun policy, anywhere.

The reasons why are several, and one is that there is no way to enforce such a policy, and if you tried to it would increase liability more than any gun. In certain bars you will see bouncers patting people down for "guns" (they're actually looking for bottles of liquor.) Most of them would have no idea what to do if they found a gun, and some may not even legally touch a gun due to their own legal issues. And lawsuits involving a bouncer are a big part of the liability of a bar.

Having a policy and not enforcing it can open yourself up to lawsuits based on giving people a false sense of safety.

Having a policy at all can open yourself up to lawsuits if people follow the policy and get hurt as a result. Female Uber driver who normally carries doesn't because Uber tells her not to, and she gets raped. By a pax who has previous reports of aggressive behavior toward drivers. They neglected to protect her from the passenger, and aggravated it by telling her she's not allowed to carry what she needs to protect herself.

Uber also tells passengers they may not carry guns on rides. Passenger gets in a car with a driver with a history of aggressive behavior towards passengers, and a weak background check, and is assaulted by the driver. See above.

Uber driver with a pax gets into a parking spot dispute with another car. Driver and passenger are dragged out of the car and beaten until they are disfigured by the occupants of the other car, and did not have the tool they normally carry to defend themselves because of Uber policy. See above.

The only gun policy that does not _increase_ one's liability is "Obey all local, state, and federal laws pertaining to firearms." Anything other than that is a political statement.


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## phillipzx3

RogueGunny said:


> And when MY family sues uber if I get killed on a run, that policy will be to their detriment.


Hate to say it but you're dreaming if you think you'll be able to sue Uber. They will litigate you into poverty.

Why do you think Uber drivers are the ones who get sued over the lack of insurance, and not Uber?


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## JimS

We get too many calls onto military posts. If we get caught with one and we're not military or LEO, we could get into trouble.


----------



## Bnerdy

Matt Uterak said:


> I've carried a gun for 20 years. I've never looked for a reason to use it and never had to use it.
> 
> Your viewpoint is simply not accurate on the aggregate.


Agreed. I been carrying for years and I always hope I never have a reason to use it. It doesn't make me feel bigger. I know it comes with a lot of responsibility and I know what pulling the trigger can mean for myself and my family. No one even knows I carry. But I will not be the guy hoping a super cop will fly down. To save me. It's my job to protect myself and my family.


----------



## AWatters

I keep a pistol, and 2 pocket knives (ready to go) within reach when I'm driving AT ALL TIMES.
Being a female, chances are higher for us to get raped, robbed, hurt, etc.

I could care less about what Uber says about MY safety. I have a family to go home to, and I refuse to put that at risk because some lowlife decides he/she is going to take what they want from me, and (potentially) leave me to die.
I don't think so.


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## shiftydrake

This is my view.....if you are legal (permitted) carry and be PROPERLY be trained practice often and develop a plan....a "safety" phrase let family and friends visiting that are with you know you phrase......mine is "Mickey mouse sucks", I found anyone with me hears that......they do following #1 GET AWAY........#2 STAY AWAY........#3 call cops tell them where we are and what I am wearing........#4 again STAY AWAY from me till cops have cleared scene..................


----------



## konoplya

for those of you that do carry, what do you carry? i currently appendix carry glock 19, but it gets a bit uncomfortable. side carrying is even more annoying. i'm thinking of going sub-compact, but wanted to see what others have.


----------



## shiftydrake

I have 2 a glock 23.....40 caliber small like what fbi carries and also a glock 31.. .45 caliber small like the 23 and interchangeable with the 23 I carry one or the other


----------



## RightTurnClyde

konoplya said:


> for those of you that do carry, what do you carry? i currently appendix carry glock 19, but it gets a bit uncomfortable. side carrying is even more annoying. i'm thinking of going sub-compact, but wanted to see what others have.


I'm a lefty which is the one time in my life that being one is beneficial to me as my CC piece is farthest away from the pax (left side) and out of possible sight. I carry 8-9 o'clock with a Remora holster, and use it because it's my most comfortable. I've tried my other holsters (some with more retention) but always go back to my Remora.


----------



## D Town

DieselkW said:


> Let's see... less than minimum wage pay and 90% of participants in this discussion are advising "every" driver should get a conceal carry permit and a pistol.
> 
> So in addition to gas, insurance, car payments, tires, oil, etc... we have to add the cost of a permit, a firearm, and training to own a weapon every one of you pro gun drivers agree is never going to be used? How many rides given since Uber startup and no passengers have been shot, right?
> 
> A gun for protection against Uber passengers is a solution in search of a problem. Taco Bell guy is one of ... how many million rides? Percentage wise, one in a million is 4 or 5 decimal places? I've driven many hundreds of drunks without incident, certainly without having to shoot someone for being a belligerent drunk.
> 
> So the question becomes, how many of you concealed carry advocates would have shot Taco Bell guy dead?
> 
> You'd be like George Zimmerman, using deadly force against an unarmed assailant.
> That guy can't keep a job. Or a girlfriend. He's in his 16th minute of fame, has to sell his autograph and his gun to make ends meet.
> 
> Is that what you want? You really think you'll ever sleep the same again after taking a life from someone? Someone relatively defenseless? The odds simply don't support a call for drivers to bear arms.
> 
> It changes you, and it changes you in a place you currently like. Do not take that responsibility lightly.


This is the rather brainwashed mentality of those opposed to guns. I don't carry a gun because of Uber. I ALWAYS carried. And no one stable shoots an unarmed assailant. I would have pepper sprayed the crap out of him like that driver did. A gun is for when your LIFE is in danger which means my options are to either deal with the reality that I had to kill someone or be dead and not have to really worry about it. I'll take having to go to counseling thank you.


----------



## RightTurnClyde

D Town said:


> This is the rather brainwashed mentality of those opposed to guns. I don't carry a gun because of Uber. I ALWAYS carried. And no one stable shoots an unarmed assailant. I would have pepper sprayed the crap out of him like that driver did. A gun is for when your LIFE is in danger which means my options are to either deal with the reality that I had to kill someone or be dead and not have to really worry about it. I'll take having to go to counseling thank you.


Like you, I CC'd looong before uber and your opinion is shared perfectly with mine.


----------



## konoplya

RightTurnClyde said:


> Like you, I CC'd looong before uber and your opinion is shared perfectly with mine.


exactly. not carrying because "muh uber", but i always carried. its just right now its in the side of my door, but i don't want pax to see it or get access to it so i have to have it on me.


----------



## TripTime

I carry a Springfield Armory XDM 3.8 compact. 11 rounds in the short mag. very easy to conceal. I am right handed but carry on left side on a cross-draw holster. also because its on my left side and i rarely get out of the car i don't cover it up.


----------



## Ravensflight

Her's a situation a lot of drivers probally have never considered. Uber rider's phone is stolen and the thieves find the app on the phone and decided that they want to car jack a driver. The put in the request and destination you show up and when you get to the destination they pull a knife or a gun. Often times victems are allowed to live but other times they are not and I believe that would be the case in a situation such as this as you could easily identify them. As always be aware of the passenfer behavior and conversation and if the situation appears that it is going south give the passenger an excuse like you have to stop and use a restroom or some other viable reason. Then go into a gas station call the cops and have them sort it out. Personnaly I believe that passengers should be required to show an ID or Uber should issues one to users. I have carried on the job and when I'm going about my own business but I haven't carried while driving and only because I don't currently have a pistol that I could comfortably conceal. Or state is about to go permitless carry and we already have legal car carry and concealed carry.


----------



## Squirming Like A Toad

Ravensflight said:


> Her's a situation a lot of drivers probally have never considered. Uber rider's phone is stolen and the thieves find the app on the phone and decided that they want to car jack a driver. The put in the request and destination you show up and when you get to the destination they pull a knife or a gun. Often times victems are allowed to live but other times they are not and I believe that would be the case in a situation such as this as you could easily identify them. As always be aware of the passenfer behavior and conversation and if the situation appears that it is going south give the passenger an excuse like you have to stop and use a restroom or some other viable reason. Then go into a gas station call the cops and have them sort it out. Personnaly I believe that passengers should be required to show an ID or Uber should issues one to users. I have carried on the job and when I'm going about my own business but I haven't carried while driving and only because I don't currently have a pistol that I could comfortably conceal. Or state is about to go permitless carry and we already have legal car carry and concealed carry.


It is a real concern. Our pickups are no safer than a street hail when stolen phones are in the picture.

I'd love to carry when I drive but none of my neighboring states recognize my state permit, nor my Utah permit. I can't even USC 921 carry it in a locked container because I'm not going to a destination where I can legally carry. So I would have to refuse out of state trips. Hopefully with the coming election these laws will be modified to recognize that I don't go around shooting people in my own state, and that probably means I'm not going to do that when I cross a state line.


----------



## Ravensflight

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> It is a real concern. Our pickups are no safer than a street hail when stolen phones are in the picture.
> 
> I'd love to carry when I drive but none of my neighboring states recognize my state permit, nor my Utah permit. I can't even USC 921 carry it in a locked container because I'm not going to a destination where I can legally carry. So I would have to refuse out of state trips. Hopefully with the coming election these laws will be modified to recognize that I don't go around shooting people in my own state, and that probably means I'm not going to do that when I cross a state line.


If the Hiderbeast get's in you can kiss all of your 2nd amendment rights good bye. Unfortunately most of the holes supporting either want it to happen because they are delusional enough to believe that it will actually stop criminal behavior or they don't even know what it going on. F-ing idiots.


----------



## Skypilot58

Get your CCL (or here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky Concealed carry Deadly Weapon...which means packing a blade too)....carry concealed always while driving rideshare as well as everywhere in public you legally can (those stupid anti-gun signs at the mall mean diddly squat)....which here in kentucky includes churches as well...better to be banned from Uber for carrying a firearm (and the pink mustache people as well)...then be assaulted,have your car jacked or lose your life


----------



## insidejob911

UberNorthStar said:


> I carry a travel-sized can of hairspray that remains in my driver's door compartment. Spraying it in the eyes gives you the chance to grab keys & cell phone & run.
> 
> JM Way of Keeping Safe


I really hope you are a female. In the case that you're a dude.... Wow.... Always packin heat in the screwber taxi


----------



## insidejob911

You never know what these crazy pax will do next


----------



## simpsonsverytall

The *Second Amendment* is the most *important* right, because the *Second Amendment* keeps the government from being able to impose tyranny. Gives me confidence, and the peace of mind that if I ever do begin to lose a fight, I'll have an ace in the hole.


----------



## GalinMcMahon

I'm going to be getting a cattle prod baton. 30 bucks and good reviews on Amazon. It's generally legal as long as it's only used for defense. I give a shit what Uber has to say about it from their secure office suite high up in a San Fran tower.


----------



## GalinMcMahon

simpsonsverytall said:


> The *Second Amendment* is the most *important* right, because the *Second Amendment* keeps the government from being able to impose tyranny. Gives me confidence, and the peace of mind that if I ever do begin to lose a fight, I'll have an ace in the hole.


The government has tanks and cannons. Good luck defending against them with your pea shooter.


----------



## GalinMcMahon

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


I think Uber would be legally compelled to provide details of a suspect. Surely you have a lawyer to confront the wrongful termination.


----------



## Screwber69

I always carry and I make sure that all passengers are patted down and searched with a hand held detector(sarcasm). I'm sorry ma'am you can't bring those .38's with you.


----------



## Screwber69

They are know for non cooperation with local authorities and it takes a court order to get them to do anything. The problem is there isn't one specific person that the cops can identified as impeding an investigation.


----------



## Taurus1980Baby

Dang I dont carry anything to protect myself. I was thinking pepper spray atleast :/


----------



## RussellP

Come to Maine... Any non-felon can conceal carry without a permit... 

but the only weapon i carry is a can of Ozium... have you ever breathed that stuff? it'll kill you.


----------



## PayTheLady

Passenger frightened me the other night. As she was preparing to exit the car, she activated a cattle prod behind my back. I the second I heard that familiar crackle, I slammed the brakes drew (but did not reveal) my firearm, and as I thumbed the safety asked what was going on. She wasn't robbing or kidnapping me. She accidentally turned the damned thing on and nearly shocked her own pregnant belly when the sound startled her. The only other time I took my pistol in hand was in potential defense of a passenger who was too high to know better than to mess with a meth head trying to break into a parked car in the McDonald's drive through. 

My passengers can bring in whatever they decide without compunction, and they can do stupid and dangerous things. My passengers are mostly highly intoxicated and sailors, soldiers, and marines. I'm a woman, alone at night, in my own personal ride. I will continue to run my show my way.


----------



## JimKE

Jesselee23 said:


> After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest.


Actually, Uber has no alternative. They can only legally release the pax info by subpoena -- and that subpoena would have to be issued in San Francisco, because that's where Uber is located. A subpoena issued in Dallas would have no legal standing in California.

If they just give the police the info without a subpoena, Uber is liable (and may have committed a criminal act) and the police would lose the case because the identity was tainted by illegally obtained evidence.

IF the Uber rider info is critical (it's probably not, there are much easier ways to ID the asshole), your local police are going to have to do a lot of work, and they will also require a good bit of luck and professional courtesy. If you are dealing with a small local police department who is interested in the case, you might get lucky. If you are dealing with a large agency, they may not have the time or resources to expend on this one case.

If your police department wants to try to get a subpoena and doesn't know how to go about it, PM me and I'll help them.


----------



## Lee239

StephenJBlue said:


> Just carry a firearm, get your CCL. And don't tell pubert.


Exactly it's not a real job so who cares. If you worry for your safety that comes before Ubers rules. They are just covering their backs in case of a lawsuit, they don't care if you get killed by a pax.



UberNorthStar said:


> I carry a travel-sized can of hairspray that remains in my driver's door compartment. Spraying it in the eyes gives you the chance to grab keys & cell phone & run.
> 
> JM Way of Keeping Safe


Unless your pax is wearing glasses or sunglasses. But a lighter and a can of hairspray is a weapon.


----------



## Bart McCoy

PayTheLady said:


> Passenger frightened me the other night. As she was preparing to exit the car, she activated a cattle prod behind my back. I the second I heard that familiar crackle, I slammed the brakes drew (but did not reveal) my firearm, and as I thumbed the safety asked what was going on. She wasn't robbing or kidnapping me. She accidentally turned the damned thing on and nearly shocked her own pregnant belly when the sound startled her. The only other time I took my pistol in hand was in potential defense of a passenger who was too high to know better than to mess with a meth head trying to break into a parked car in the McDonald's drive through.
> 
> My passengers can bring in whatever they decide without compunction, and they can do stupid and dangerous things. My passengers are mostly highly intoxicated and sailors, soldiers, and marines. I'm a woman, alone at night, in my own personal ride. I will continue to run my show my way.


eh, what's a cattle prod?

Couple things:

1) you clearly should NOT be driving your Uber. You are too trigger happy,and simply too noid to be driving for Uber. You will be on the losing end of a lawsuit or jail time very soon

2) if a passenger REALLY wants to do something to you, you will NOT have time to slam on breaks and turn around. Remember, you are facing forward. If dealing with a seasoned criminal, or even a newbie criminal, *YOU WILL NOT SEE THE DANGER COMING, *unless you are a mutant and have eyes in the back of your head. Sad to say but your neck can be choked out, you can be shot, or your throat slit way because you slam breaks, turn around, and draw your weapon.* THE PAX IN THE BACK SEAT WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE JUMP ON YOU*


----------



## Trafficat

konoplya said:


> for those of you that do carry, what do you carry? i currently appendix carry glock 19, but it gets a bit uncomfortable. side carrying is even more annoying. i'm thinking of going sub-compact, but wanted to see what others have.


I have found that cargo pants pockets or blazer jacket pockets provide easy access while seated but these pockets require a lightweight gun. The only guns I own that can ride comfortably in such pockets are the Kel-Tec P32, NAA mini-revolver, and S&W 43C/351C. All of these guns are less than 12 oz fully loaded. Stepping up to even 15 ounces makes it very uncomfortable for me to have in these pockets. These guns are small caliber but we are talking inside-the-car type distances.

Front pocket carry can also be not too bad except it is very difficult to draw while sitting with normal pants. The CCW-breakaway pants help with this a little bit with the snap open pockets. It will even work with a Glock 19 but a Glock 26 would be easier with normal pants.

Crossdraw/Cavalary draw type positions inside the waist band are not too bad, but a strongside carry position will be impossible to draw while seatbelted in. Shoulder holsters are also not too bad.



Bart McCoy said:


> eh, what's a cattle prod?
> 
> Couple things:
> 
> 1) you clearly should NOT be driving your Uber. You are too trigger happy,and simply too noid to be driving for Uber. You will be on the losing end of a lawsuit or jail time very soon
> 
> 2) if a passenger REALLY wants to do something to you, you will NOT have time to slam on breaks and turn around. Remember, you are facing forward. If dealing with a seasoned criminal, or even a newbie criminal, *YOU WILL NOT SEE THE DANGER COMING, *unless you are a mutant and have eyes in the back of your head. Sad to say but your neck can be choked out, you can be shot, or your throat slit way because you slam breaks, turn around, and draw your weapon.* THE PAX IN THE BACK SEAT WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE JUMP ON YOU*


A mutant with eyes in the back of your head? You mean a rear view mirror and a dash cam pointed backwards with a nice screen? Because my car has both.

Not all attacks by passengers are sudden assassination attempts. Quite often it probably starts out as some drunk guy or someone else getting ticked off. And the fact that I have a seat between myself and them can buy some time. It could even start from outside the car. The other night I had to turn down 5 people from riding because my car only fits 4. They went into a drunken rage calling me all sorts of names and calling me a racist, and tried to open my car doors and force their way in. No force was necessary thanks to the locked doors... I just drove off. But I saw trouble coming from a ways away and if they would have reached in and unlocked the doors (windows were rolled down to talk) they could have forced their way in and attacked me for being a "racist." Fortunately, I locked the doors when I saw 5 people come towards me.

In my state a person is also presumed to have acted in fear of their life if defending against a person attempting to enter a car with force.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Bart McCoy said:


> 2) if a passenger REALLY wants to do something to you, you will NOT have time to slam on breaks and turn around. Remember, you are facing forward. If dealing with a seasoned criminal, or even a newbie criminal, *YOU WILL NOT SEE THE DANGER COMING, *unless you are a mutant and have eyes in the back of your head. Sad to say but your neck can be choked out, you can be shot, or your throat slit way because you slam breaks, turn around, and draw your weapon.* THE PAX IN THE BACK SEAT WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE JUMP ON YOU*


A lot of "ifs" there.

Most of your criminals aren't interested in a fight at all, they just want your money. I guess they could attack you from the back seat in a moving vehicle, but that puts them in danger- they don't want that.

Further, you can see the danger coming, its called being aware of your surroundings and knowing when you have a nogoodnik in the back seat. Don't need "eyes in the back of your head", you have a rear view mirror.

I don't think a small handgun is really very helpful, a large gun that can be used as a club as well is better for infighting in the close quarters of a car.


----------



## Trafficat

I_Like_Spam said:


> I don't think a small handgun is really very helpful, a large gun that can be used as a club as well is better for infighting in the close quarters of a car.


Personally I feel a small 8 shot .22 revolver is better than a club even in the close quarters... but you make a good point that a larger gun can be used as a club.

But a gun with a short barrel and a bayonet could be even better.... If they try to grab for it they get something sharp. Only problem would be holster selection.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Trafficat said:


> A mutant with eyes in the back of your head? You mean a rear view mirror and a dash cam pointed backwards with a nice screen? Because my car has both.
> 
> Not all attacks by passengers are sudden assassination attempts. Quite often it probably starts out as some drunk guy or someone else getting ticked off. And the fact that I have a seat between myself and them can buy some time. It could even start from outside the car. The other night I had to turn down 5 people from riding because my car only fits 4. They went into a drunken rage calling me all sorts of names and calling me a racist, and tried to open my car doors and force their way in. No force was necessary thanks to the locked doors... I just drove off. But I saw trouble coming from a ways away and if they would have reached in and unlocked the doors (windows were rolled down to talk) they could have forced their way in and attacked me for being a "racist." Fortunately, I locked the doors when I saw 5 people come towards me.
> 
> In my state a person is also presumed to have acted in fear of their life if defending against a person attempting to enter a car with force.


What state is this? Exactly what type of force? Either way it's all what the JURY believes is a reasonable level fear of your life, not what you think.

So you have a mirror and a webcam,so you telling me you are constantly waiting for somebody else to grab your neck? You telling me because you have some dag on mirror you can prevent me from causing harm to you if I wanted to? You don't know when ima make my move. Mirror/cam is simply a false since of security smh



I_Like_Spam said:


> A lot of "ifs" there.
> 
> Most of your criminals aren't interested in a fight at all, they just want your money. I guess they could attack you from the back seat in a moving vehicle, but that puts them in danger- they don't want that.
> 
> Further, you can see the danger coming, its called being aware of your surroundings and knowing when you have a nogoodnik in the back seat. Don't need "eyes in the back of your head", you have a rear view mirror.


Um, the car doesn't have to be moving for them to attack you smh. At a light, stop sign, it doesn't matter what the car is doing. Only thing that matters is that you can't see behind you unless you stare into your mirror all the time(which means you can't drive),but you can look into the mirror all you want but you still won't see the knife I'm sliding up from my leg holster, lol. All I have to do is attack you when your back is turned to me, which is like 99% of the time!!!

You might know there a no-good guy or whatever you call it in the back seat, but you Never know if he's going to just be an audible jerk, or actually turn into a physical, you simply Never know. You guys are funny are hear. Just admit it's easy for a pax to attack you anytime they want and they have the advantage because your back is to them!!!!


----------



## Trafficat

Bart McCoy said:


> What state is this? Exactly what type of force? Either way it's all what the JURY believes is a reasonable level fear of your life, not what you think.


Nevada, and deadly force.

Basically, in Nevada, if someone is trying to force their way into your vehicle for the purposes of harming you, you can shoot them and you are *presumed* to have acted in fear. This could be overcome by clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, but if I have dascham video showing a group of angry men threatening me and then trying to force their way into the car they are going to have a hard time convincing a jury I was in the wrong.

Contrary to your assertion that almost no one can get away with self-defense, in reality, it is often very difficult to convince 12 people that you are guilty, especially if you have a compelling story about how you acted to preserve your own life. If you have a video rolling, assuming you do indeed act in self-defense, that can also strongly bolster your case. Of course, video can backfire if you use force wrongly, but really, most of us who carry weapons are not out to do anything but protect ourselves in the case of immediate danger. If you can convince only 1 guy in 12 that it was defense against your life, defense against unlawful entry into your vehicle with intent to use violence against the occupants, or even merely defense against the commission of any felony against any person, that is pretty much all you need to prevent yourself from being found guilty.

Most states in fact have pretty decent laws against defending yourself against serious bodily harm or death and even bystanders. Nevada allows you to defend any person in your presence against a felony. So PayTheLady could have defended her passenger that confronted the car burglar if the car burglar attacked him.



> NRS 200.120  "Justifiable homicide" defined; no duty to retreat under certain circumstances.
> 
> 1.  *Justifiable homicide is the killing of a human being* in necessary self-defense, or *in defense of* an occupied habitation, *an occupied motor vehicle* or a person, *against one who manifestly intends or endeavors* to commit a crime of violence, or against any person or persons who manifestly intend and endeavor, in a violent, riotous, tumultuous or surreptitious manner,* to enter the occupied habitation or occupied motor vehicle, of another for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein.*
> 
> NRS 200.130  Bare fear insufficient to justify killing; reasonable fear required; rebuttable presumption under certain circumstances.
> 
> 1.  A bare fear of any of the offenses mentioned in NRS 200.120, to prevent which the homicide is alleged to have been committed, is not sufficient to justify the killing. It must appear that the circumstances were sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable person and that the person killing really acted under the influence of those fears and not in a spirit of revenge.
> 
> 2.  There is a rebuttable presumption that the circumstances were sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable person and that the person killing really acted under the influence of those fears and not in a spirit of revenge if the person killing:
> 
> (a) Knew or reasonably believed that the person who was killed was entering unlawfully and with force, or *attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the occupied habitation or occupied motor vehicle*, of another;
> 
> (b) Knew or reasonably believed that the person who was killed was committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence; and
> 
> (c) Did not provoke the person who was killed.
> 
> 3.  As used in this section:
> 
> (a) "Crime of violence" means any felony for which there is a substantial risk that force or violence may be used against the person or property of another in the commission of the felony.
> 
> (b) "Motor vehicle" means every vehicle which is self-propelled.
> 
> NRS 200.160  Additional cases of justifiable homicide.  Homicide is also justifiable when committed:
> 
> 1.  In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or





> So you have a mirror and a webcam,so you telling me you are constantly waiting for somebody else to grab your neck? You telling me because you have some dag on mirror you can prevent me from causing harm to you if I wanted to? You don't know when ima make my move. Mirror/cam is simply a false since of security smh


You can go ahead and maintain your surrender mentality. No one is stopping you. However, being stabbed once is usually not instantly fatal unless you can stab someone directly in the brain. And the same goes for being shot. Unless you are stabbed or shot in a vital organ you are probably going to live if you can get to the hospital, and you aren't going to instantly drop like a rock either. You can be stabbed or shot once and often still be alive to return fire and ultimately prevail.

You can grab a driver by the neck but that won't stop him from shooting you unless you can somehow snap the neck in a second like a ninja.

I find it bizzarre how anti-gun people always assume that anyone attacked first is instantly dead no matter what because criminals are all apparently ninja assassins, yet no one could possibly defend themselves because apparently anyone who isn't a criminal is too incompetent.



> Um, the car doesn't have to be moving for them to attack you smh. At a light, stop sign, it doesn't matter what the car is doing. Only thing that matters is that you can't see behind you unless you stare into your mirror all the time(which means you can't drive),but you can look into the mirror all you want but you still won't see the knife I'm sliding up from my leg holster, lol. All I have to do is attack you when your back is turned to me, which is like 99% of the time!!!
> 
> You might know there a no-good guy or whatever you call it in the back seat, but you Never know if he's going to just be an audible jerk, or actually turn into a physical, you simply Never know. You guys are funny are hear. Just admit it's easy for a pax to attack you anytime they want and they have the advantage because your back is to them!!!!


Even if you are UNARMED you should be paying attention to what your passengers are doing. Your best weapon is your brain and being unarmed doesn't mean that you can afford to be totally oblivious to everyone around you just because you assume you are doomed. The very fact that your head is on a swivel can discourage an attacker from gathering the courage to strike.

If you are DRIVING you should also be checking your mirror constantly. How else do you know if it is safe to turn or if you are about to get run down by a big rig?

There are also often some warning signs. The petite girl staring into her iphone with her earbuds on when you glance in the mirror is unlikely to suddenly stab you in the neck as soon as you turn your head to check for turning left. On the other hand, when you hear a cattle prod cackling in the backseat or your passenger seems overly focused on you and makes a sudden shift of his body, maybe you should take a closer look.

Sure, you cannot survive all attacks 100% of the time with self-defense. But you know what? In general stats show that people who use a weapon for self-defense are far less likely to be seriously injured. And even if defending yourself only gave you a chance, isn't it still worth it?

Maybe you are an uber driver serial killer that gets the jump on all the drivers, but the fact is not every passenger that is going to assault the driver has the perfect plan or execution. And if someone was going to rape an uber driver, chances are he doesn't start with a bullet to the back of the driver's head.

It also reminds me of a time I was open carrying in a restaurant. Some guys sitting at another table and one was talking to his friend about how stupid I was because he could supposedly come up and take my gun from me and shoot me with it. He was a bigger guy than I, it is true. If it came down to a wresting match, he would win. But what they didn't know was that if he tried to take from me the gun they saw, he would probably get shot by the gun he didn't see before he was able to employ my one he did against me. If he could even figure out how my retention holster or even my safety lever worked in the first place... my bet is that his knowledge of guns came from Hollywood.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Trafficat said:


> Nevada, and deadly force.
> 
> Basically, in Nevada, if someone is trying to force their way into your vehicle for the purposes of harming you, you can shoot them and you are *presumed* to have acted in fear. This could be overcome by clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, but if I have dascham video showing a group of angry men threatening me and then trying to force their way into the car they are going to have a hard time convincing a jury I was in the wrong.
> 
> Contrary to your assertion that almost no one can get away with self-defense, in reality, it is often very difficult to convince 12 people that you are guilty, especially if you have a compelling story about how you acted to preserve your own life. If you have a video rolling, assuming you do indeed act in self-defense, that can also strongly bolster your case. Of course, video can backfire if you use force wrongly, but really, most of us who carry weapons are not out to do anything but protect ourselves in the case of immediate danger. If you can convince only 1 guy in 12 that it was defense against your life, defense against unlawful entry into your vehicle with intent to use violence against the occupants, or even merely defense against the commission of any felony against any person, that is pretty much all you need to prevent yourself from being found guilty.
> 
> Most states in fact have pretty decent laws against defending yourself against serious bodily harm or death and even bystanders. Nevada allows you to defend any person in your presence against a felony. So PayTheLady could have defended her passenger that confronted the car burglar if the car burglar attacked him.
> 
> You can go ahead and maintain your surrender mentality. No one is stopping you. However, being stabbed once is usually not instantly fatal unless you can stab someone directly in the brain. And the same goes for being shot. Unless you are stabbed or shot in a vital organ you are probably going to live if you can get to the hospital, and you aren't going to instantly drop like a rock either. You can be stabbed or shot once and often still be alive to return fire and ultimately prevail.
> 
> You can grab a driver by the neck but that won't stop him from shooting you unless you can somehow snap the neck in a second like a ninja.
> 
> I find it bizzarre how anti-gun people always assume that anyone attacked first is instantly dead no matter what because criminals are all apparently ninja assassins, yet no one could possibly defend themselves because apparently anyone who isn't a criminal is too incompetent.
> 
> Even if you are UNARMED you should be paying attention to what your passengers are doing. Your best weapon is your brain and being unarmed doesn't mean that you can afford to be totally oblivious to everyone around you just because you assume you are doomed. The very fact that your head is on a swivel can discourage an attacker from gathering the courage to strike.
> 
> If you are DRIVING you should also be checking your mirror constantly. How else do you know if it is safe to turn or if you are about to get run down by a big rig?
> 
> There are also often some warning signs. The petite girl staring into her iphone with her earbuds on when you glance in the mirror is unlikely to suddenly stab you in the neck as soon as you turn your head to check for turning left. On the other hand, when you hear a cattle prod cackling in the backseat or your passenger seems overly focused on you and makes a sudden shift of his body, maybe you should take a closer look.
> 
> Sure, you cannot survive all attacks 100% of the time with self-defense. But you know what? In general stats show that people who use a weapon for self-defense are far less likely to be seriously injured. And even if defending yourself only gave you a chance, isn't it still worth it?
> 
> Maybe you are an uber driver serial killer that gets the jump on all the drivers, but the fact is not every passenger that is going to assault the driver has the perfect plan or execution. And if someone was going to rape an uber driver, chances are he doesn't start with a bullet to the back of the driver's head.
> 
> It also reminds me of a time I was open carrying in a restaurant. Some guys sitting at another table and one was talking to his friend about how stupid I was because he could supposedly come up and take my gun from me and shoot me with it. He was a bigger guy than I, it is true. If it came down to a wresting match, he would win. But what they didn't know was that if he tried to take from me the gun they saw, he would probably get shot by the gun he didn't see before he was able to employ my one he did against me. If he could even figure out how my retention holster or even my safety lever worked in the first place... my bet is that his knowledge of guns came from Hollywood.


Well you seem to know it all, so ima let you cook.

Bottom line remains that anybody in the back seat has the advantage, and can get a jump on you at any time, regardless of how many times you stare in your mirror, smh.

If I'm a serial Uber criminal like you said I am, I pull my gun on you, Tell you not to make a move. You probably think you're faster than Usain bolt and would reach for your gun and you would be shot instantly. Or say I had a knife to your neck, if you didn't move I'd pat you down, find your gun, then shoot you with it. If you did move then id slit your neck just as quick. When wholetime if you never had a weapon, you could have left the situation unharmed.

So Just because you have a weapon means nothing,it all depends on the criminal. And you or her using your gun to stop somebody from attacking another person just because you think its legal will just put you in a world of legal trouble. Let police handle things like that. You should only pull a gun and use it if and only if it is a life threatening situation. You guys are pretty much considering just about ANYTHING to be a life threatening situation. You won't realize its not until a jury says so, good luck


----------



## Trafficat

Bart McCoy said:


> And you or her using your gun to stop somebody from attacking another person just because you think its legal will just put you in a world of legal trouble. Let police handle things like that. You should only pull a gun and use it if and only if it is a life threatening situation. You guys are pretty much considering just about ANYTHING to be a life threatening situation. You won't realize its not until a jury says so, good luck


Lady wasn't saying she was going to shoot a guy just for breaking into a car. She said she was preparing to save her passenger in case he ended up in a life threatening situation as a result of confronting said auto burglar. Let the police handle it instead of helping the guy who is being assaulted? How so? Call them on the phone while your passenger you let out in front of your car is being stabbed to death by the guy he confronted that was trying to break into a car? How exactly are the police supposed to handle that? I guess they'll arrive in time to take some pictures of his corpse and file a report. Could you get in legal trouble for helping a bystander? Sure you could. You probably WON'T be convicted if you are acting to save a bystander, but it is true you could probably help yourself most by taking the selfish route and not getting involved, and thereby not getting deactivated by the Uber and not facing the possibility of a frivolous prosecution.

But you know what, if you decide to let a man die because you are worried about your Uber job or malicious prosecution, you can stay out of it and you get to keep your job and live the rest of your life with that man's blood on your hands for sitting idly by when you could have saved him.



> If I'm a serial Uber criminal like you said I am, I pull my gun on you, Tell you not to make a move. You probably think you're faster than Usain bolt and would reach for your gun and you would be shot instantly. Just because you have a weapon means nothing,it all depends on the criminal.


Try pulling a gun on a police officer and see how he reacts. You think he's not going to draw his weapon just because you got out yours first? If you draw your gun first, and I draw mine in response, you may "shoot first" but that doesn't mean I won't shoot second, and it is far from certain that "you win" just because you shoot the first shot. Sure, I'm not liking those odds with you having your gun out first, but I'm liking my odds better if I'm armed rather than unarmed. I think you have a misconception about how bullets work. It is far from instant death being shot, unless the bullet goes into the brain. And I'm not going to sit still to be an easy target.

My first move could be unpredictable too. If I yank the wheel/accelerator/brakes really hard, chances are your gun isn't pointing at me (or at least not at my brain) if only for a second. Gives me some time to duck, draw, etc. With any luck I can crash the car too. Unarmed, you can simply recover and then gun me down. Armed, I can take advantage of your recovery period to turn the tables.

As you say, it depends on the criminal. YOU may be the super ninja that will defeat any countermeasure I attempt. But not ALL people that assault you are super ninjas. Therefore self-defense CAN help. At least some subset of "guys who attack Uber drivers" are not impervious to countermeasure.


----------



## AliciaLyftdriver

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


Im so sorry to hear this  I suggest you get your permit, and carry it anyway. Crazy how people behave.

Alicia


----------



## freddieman

rtaatl said:


> Screw their so called "policy". If you shoot some poor bastard trying to rob you I'm sure Uber would deem you some sort of a hero. So don't worry about what they say in their emails.


Are u sure about that? Uber just lost a pax. LoL.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Trafficat said:


> Lady wasn't saying she was going to shoot a guy just for breaking into a car. She said she was preparing to save her passenger in case he ended u
> 
> But you know what, if you decide to let a man die because you are worried about your Uber job or malicious prosecution, you can stay out of it and you get to keep your job and live the rest of your life with that man's blood on your hands for sitting idly by when you could have saved him.
> 
> As you say, it depends on the criminal. YOU may be the super ninja that will defeat any countermeasure I attempt. But not ALL people that assault you are super ninjas. Therefore self-defense CAN help. At least some subset of "guys who attack Uber drivers" are not impervious to countermeasure.


You can play superhero and save the world with a gun if you want. You're talking about taking lives, so put yourself in legal situations if you want. Just because YOU say you feared for your life or somebody else, won't always fly in court.

You guys are getting guns like its the answer to everything. Yall talk about shooting people like its nothing. If you happen to take someone's life, if will be a horrid thing that will haunt you forever. And on top of that you may go to jail for it,even though you thought you were doing the right thing because somebody was getting beat up by a perp's fist.

Everybody in here talking about getting guns as if its the answer. If you feel you need a gun to do this job then you probably shouldn't do the job. It's only going to end badly if you have to use it. Already people in here talking about pulling out there gun just because they hear a noise in the back. SAD. You can't be noid while carrying a gun. Bad combination. Terrible combination.

Ask yourselves, do you really need a gun? As high as 85% of police officers never fire their weapon in their CAREER, even though they put themselves in danger every single day. But you folks need it to Uber...... Again, if you feel the need to get a deadly weapon so you can may earn $1/mile, do yourself a favor, get another job!!!

Killing people isn't the answer



AliciaLyftdriver said:


> Im so sorry to hear this  I suggest you get your permit, and carry it anyway. Crazy how people behave.
> 
> Alicia


Yeah, just wily nily shoot a crazy person, smh.
I don't think anybody on here understands the seriousness of firing your weapon and even more if you kill someone. Your whole life will change instantly.


----------



## Trafficat

Bart McCoy said:


> You can play superhero and save the world with a gun if you want. You're talking about taking lives, so put yourself in legal situations if you want. Just because YOU say you feared for your life or somebody else, won't always fly in court.
> 
> You guys are getting guns like its the answer to everything.


No. We are talking about guns like they are the answer sometimes. And they are. Not agreeing with you that guns are never the answer is not the same thing as believing that guns are always the answer.



> Yall talk about shooting people like its nothing. If you happen to take someone's life, if will be a horrid thing that will haunt you forever. And on top of that you may go to jail for it,even though you thought you were doing the right thing because somebody was getting beat up by a perp's fist.


Yeah and letting someone die in front of you will haunt you forever too. Getting raped has pretty bad psychological effects I hear too. Being a victim of crime has negative psychological effects.



> Ask yourselves, do you really need a gun? As high as 85% of police officers never fire their weapon in their CAREER, even though they put themselves in danger every day. But you folks need it to Uber...... Again, if you feel the need to get a deadly weapon so you can may $1/mile, do yourself a favor, get another job.


Taxi drivers and Cheuffers are more than twice as likely to be murdered on the job than a cop. Just to put that into some perspective for you.
http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/ind...th_the_number_1_murder_rate_taxi_drivers.html












> Yeah, just wily nily shoot a crazy person, smh.
> I don't think anybody on here understands the seriousness of firing your weapon and even more if you kill someone. Your whole life will change instantly.


No one is talking about shooting except to save lives. Shooting to save a life is not shooting "wily nilly".



> Already people in here talking about pulling out there gun just because they hear a noise in the back. SAD


Maybe you didn't notice the part where the noise was a cattle prod? If the sound was a shotgun being shucked or a pistol slide being racked, would you be equally as disapproving? It isn't like the driver threatened the passenger. The driver just became alert to possible danger and was prepared to act in case if the danger was real.


----------



## swingset

Bart McCoy said:


> I don't think anybody on here understands the seriousness of firing your weapon and even more if you kill someone. Your whole life will change instantly.


I don't think you understand the consequences of not firing your weapon if you're in a life and death situation. Trust me, it's way worse than your life changing.

Please, shut up. You're changing 0 minds.


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## simpsonsverytall

I use an app that shows good-guys, and bad-guys.


----------



## Bart McCoy

swingset said:


> I don't think you understand the consequences of not firing your weapon if you're in a life and death situation. Trust me, it's way worse than your life changing.
> 
> Please, shut up. You're changing 0 minds.


hope they give you a window view in your cell, next to Butch


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

swingset said:


> I don't think you understand the consequences of not firing your weapon if you're in a life and death situation. Trust me, it's way worse than your life changing.
> 
> Please, shut up. You're changing 0 minds.


As a veteran...

No one ever comes back from war the same...

It changes you...

Also

However i don't regret any time i pulled the trigger...


----------



## Bart McCoy

Trafficat said:


> Taxi drivers and Cheuffers are more than twice as likely to be murdered on the job than a cop. Just to put that into some perspective for you.
> http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/ind...th_the_number_1_murder_rate_taxi_drivers.html
> 
> No one is talking about shooting except to save lives. Shooting to save a life is not shooting "wily nilly".
> 
> Maybe you didn't notice the part where the noise was a cattle prod? If the sound was a shotgun being shucked or a pistol slide being racked, would you be equally as disapproving? It isn't like the driver threatened the passenger. The driver just became alert to possible danger and was prepared to act in case if the danger was real.


Nice chart about Taxi drivers who accept CASH,the main reason they get robbed.
Where's your chart where people rob and kill Uber drivers for CASH?????????????

what if the pax was a legal gun carrier too. They know they didn't do anything wrong, but see that you have drawn your gun because you assumed your life was in danger when it wasnt? Well guess what, if he sees your gun he will shoot. Now you're in a big shootout over nothing.

Again, I don't think most people on here understand the seriousness of carrying a gun and actually using it. I know they don't.


----------



## Rooster06

Follow your state laws, get a CCW; worst case scenario, TheUbes puts you in timeout or deactivates you. Much better outcome than being a victim. I carry everyday that I drive, wouldn't drive without it. State laws will protect you from any sort of suit against you in relation to Uber... but once again theUbes could deactivate if it became an issue.

Hell, when pax ask, I tell them that I carry, and that's why I'm not worried about driving at certain times or places. That and I'm a combat vet, so nothing some drunk punk or druggie can do will be worse than anything I've already seen. Every pax who's asked says they are glad that I'm carrying and they feel much safer.

In the end, its more important to go home to your family or friends than it is to become a statistic in order to follow a backwards policy based purely on Political correctness and emotion.

Hell, even he cops I've talked to have said they wished more Uber/lyft drivers would carry.

"Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6."

That, and theUbes will never come to help on your behalf if you are a victim during a ride. You cease being a "partner" and become an independent contractor. Thus nullifying their responsibility.


----------



## twerkyo.....UBERRRRR

Bart McCoy said:


> Nice chart about Taxi drivers who accept CASH,the main reason they get robbed.
> Where's your chart where people rob and kill Uber drivers for CASH?????????????
> 
> what if the pax was a legal gun carrier too. They know they didn't do anything wrong, but see that you have drawn your gun because you assumed your life was in danger when it wasnt? Well guess what, if he sees your gun he will shoot. Now you're in a big shootout over nothing.
> 
> Again, I don't think most people on here understand the seriousness of carrying a gun and actually using it. I know they don't.


Your argument is full of what ifs....

I would rather someone figure out the seriousness of carrying a gun by saving their own life than to regret not carrying and end up dead due to your advice...


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

just get a CCW and if you actually have to use it you'll probobly want to quit anyway after wasting someone in your car.


But just one word of advice, if you pull your gun dial 911.

YOU need to be the first one to file a police report if you dial 911 if you pull a gun on a customer.


----------



## Trafficat

Bart McCoy said:


> Nice chart about Taxi drivers who accept CASH,the main reason they get robbed.
> Where's your chart where people rob and kill Uber drivers for CASH?????????????


Actually that number is from the BLS for all cheuffers of all types. The taxi specific number is higher than for other cheuffers but according to the BLS, a government agency, all cheuffers have a higher murder rate. While cash handling is one reason cabbies are attacked, retail sales people also handle cash and have a much lower murder rate. The solitary nature of the job has a lot to do with it too. Also contrary to assertions of others that never get tips, I do. And I always carry change for $100. Oh, and now Uber is introducing cash in new markets too.

None of this matters though. Desk bound cops still carry a gun even though they are in a secure police station. How often do police stations get attacked? Not often? And why do you think that is? Statistically you might be unlikely to get shot but if you get unlucky you can even be gunned down in a school. It is better to have one and not need one than need one and not have one. And if people think you might have one, that makes it less likely to need it also.


> what if the pax was a legal gun carrier too. They know they didn't do anything wrong, but see that you have drawn your gun because you assumed your life was in danger when it wasnt? Well guess what, if he sees your gun he will shoot. Now you're in a big shootout over nothing.


Perhaps you have memory issues, but Lady never shot nor presented her firearm to the cattleprod wielder. She merely got herself ready to. If a passenger pulls out his gun and racks the slide, and you draw in response, he knows he did something that would spook you or he is an idiot. All he has to do is stop waving the gun around and he lives. I know you think all gun owners are idiots. Try going up behind a cop, drawing your gun and then racking the slide. You think you can shoot him for drawing his gun when you did it first? That is not how it works. Because you put the officer in a situation where a reasonable person expects he is under attack, it is now on YOU to convince the officer you were not.


> Again, I don't think most people on here understand the seriousness of carrying a gun and actually using it. I know they don't.


 I think you don't want that responsibility and therefore you do not want anyone else to either. Have you ever even fired a gun before?


----------



## Bart McCoy

Trafficat said:


> Actually that number is from the BLS for all cheuffers of all types. The taxi specific number is higher than for other cheuffers but according to the BLS, a government agency, all cheuffers have a higher murder rate. While cash handling is one reason cabbies are attacked, retail sales people also handle cash and have a much lower murder rate. The solitary nature of the job has a lot to do with it too. Also contrary to assertions of others that never get tips, I do. And I always carry change for $100. Oh, and now Uber is introducing cash in new markets too.
> 
> Perhaps you have memory issues, but Lady never shot nor presented her firearm to the cattleprod wielder. She merely got herself ready to. If a passenger pulls out his gun and racks the slide, and you draw in response, he knows he did something that would spook you or he is an idiot. All he has to do is stop waving the gun around and he lives. I know you think all gun owners are idiots. Try going up behind a cop, drawing your gun and then racking the slide. You think you can shoot him for drawing his gun when you did it first? That is not how it works. Because you put the officer in a situation where a reasonable person expects he is under attack, it is now on YOU to convince the officer you were not.
> 
> I think you don't want that responsibility and therefore you do not want anyone else to either. Have you ever even fired a gun before?


The bottom line is UBER drivers are NOT known for carrying cash, no matter how much you claim they do,since now yout alking about Uber drivers are getting murdered for their tips, smh. The average Uber driver simply does NOT have ANY cash tips. And if they do, 99% of them have less than $20 in cash. Who kills for 20 bucks? If Uber drivers carried as much money in tips like you claim making them a target to die, none of these drivers would be crying for a tip option in the app now would they?

As for your police officer example, you're comparing apples to oranges: in her scenario, she pulled out a gun on an innocent person with no weapon. In your scenario, you saying a guy racks a real gun behind a police officer...um...that's clearly not the same thing as having a gun drawn on you with no weapon. You clearly have a weapon, that's totally different.

I have fired a gun plenty times. I go to the gun range, plus I have CCW where they require you to fire a gun multiple times to even obtain the CCW (which is valid is many states due to reciprocity )

I haven't killed anyone though. And no, of course I dont want that responsibility. But people saying best to be judged by 12 than be carried by 6, as if they can careless about those 12 sentencing them to 20 to 30 years. People on here are just running their mouths, that's it, because if they have to fire their weapon, they will be singing a different tune, I guarantee it.

But what's your point of asking if I fired a weapon? how does it apply to anything about what were talking about?


----------



## Trafficat

Bart McCoy said:


> The bottom line is UBER drivers are NOT known for carrying cash, no matter how much you claim they do,since now yout alking about Uber drivers are getting murdered for their tips, smh. The average Uber driver simply does NOT have ANY cash tips. And if they do, 99% of them have less than $20 in cash. Who kills for 20 bucks? If Uber drivers carried as much money in tips like you claim making them a target to die, none of these drivers would be crying for a tip option in the app now would they?


Oh cmon, an Uber driver has far more assets than $20 in cash in his car. You are an Uber driver right? How much cash you keep in your car? You still have quarters for meters I would bet, and cash on hand for gas, lunch break, etc.? And probably a credit card or two? And the average Uber driver doesn't have cash tips? I'm sure that's what they tell the IRS! lol. All Uber drivers have a smart phone and a car you can steal. They also have sexy bodies. The BLS stats include Uber drivers, limo drivers, and others in their average.

I didn't even mention radar detectors and dash cams. Over in the other thread people are talking about their $400 dash cams.



> As for your police officer example, you're comparing apples to oranges: in her scenario, she pulled out a gun on an innocent person with no weapon.


She pulled out her gun on an innocent person? I missed that part. I seem to remember reading that it was still covered by her jacket and the passenger never saw it. She just removed it from the hidden holster but did not present it. And it wasn't for no reason she was getting prepared for the worst. The passenger was also clutzing around with an electroshock weapon used on cattle, if I recall. The passenger may not have intended to use it as a weapon, but shouldn't have been clutzing around with it if she didn't want to put people in fear. It'd be like if your passenger accidentally started a chainsaw in the backseat. Chainsaw massacre or innocent mistake? It should put you on edge to say the least.


> In your scenario, you saying a guy racks a real gun behind a police officer...um...that's clearly not the same thing as having a gun drawn on you with no weapon. You clearly have a weapon, that's totally different.


Well, it is the same as a passenger in my backseat racking the slide on his gun... which is um... the example I used to which you said that I would be getting shot by innocent legal gun owners who happen to be racking their slide in my backseat and shoot me because I pull out my gun, right?



> I have fired a gun plenty times. I go to the gun range, plus I have CCW where they require you to fire a gun multiple times to even obtain the CCW (which is valid is many states due to reciprocity )
> 
> I haven't killed anyone though. And no, of course I dont want that responsibility. But people saying best to be judged by 12 than be carried by 6, as if they can careless about those 12 sentencing them to 20 to 30 years. People on here are just running their mouths, that's it, because if they have to fire their weapon, they will be singing a different tune, I guarantee it.
> 
> But what's your point of asking if I fired a weapon? how does it apply to anything about what were talking about?


Frankly I'm surprised you have a CCW. Your attitudes are not like anyone I know who has a CCW. CCW permits are not free, so why would you get one if you would never use lethal force under any circumstance? You are an Uber driver, right? And you think it is irresponsible for an Uber driver to CCW... yet you have one? huh? You think that if you ever use a gun for any reason you are guaranteed a cell net to Bubba? Is that what your CCW instructor told you? I've seen instructors like that, sadly, that spread FUD rather than giving students a realistic assessment of the legal outcomes of use of force. Yes, you can get in a world of trouble if you are not careful. But it is pretty much a lie if you were told that you can only get boned if you ever use your gun. As long as you only use it under justifiable circumstances you will most likely not get boned. *Could* happen, but probably not. Remember there are 12 guys on the jury. To get convicted, your fears have to appear unreasonable to all 12.

I ask if you fired a gun, because you keep talking as if you come from some position of authority, yet keep saying things that make no sense to most people who have. It's the type of arguments I always used to hear in college from students that came from foreign countries that thought I was a barbarian for being a gun owner. You clearly have a pessimistic attitude towards the justice system and your fellow Uber driver. Since you never killed anyone by your own description I don't see how you have any basis to claim I'd change my mind if I did. Maybe you don't trust yourself to make the right decisions, so you project that on everyone else. I haven't personally shot anyone either, but I know a guy about twice my age who killed a guy in self-defense. He never went to prison. He didn't even give up his guns and become a priest afterwards. No, he still carries guns, in fact he is more emboldened than ever and in fact he always encourages me to carry a gun. He used to be a cab driver but that's not when he shot someone. But he knows a thing or two about driving, knows how Uber is different than a cab, and still thinks I should carry.

What exactly is your basis for assuming that you are screwed if you ever use force? George Zimmerman was acquitted, and his case was far murkier than anything anyone proposed using a weapon for in this thread. There were no witnesses, Martin had no weapon, and Zimmerman was going around seeking trouble (Neighborhood watch). If you got a guy getting stabbed to death and you shoot the guy with a knife to save him, the odds of you going to prison are pretty much zero, unless you executed the guy after he dropped the knife.... In this case you have a witness (the pax getting stabbed) and probably a dash cam also to back up your side of the story. And the guy full of bullet holes has a knife with the other witness's blood on it on the ground next to him.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Trafficat said:


> Oh cmon, an Uber driver has far more assets than $20 in cash in his car. You are an Uber driver right? How much cash you keep in your car? You still have quarters for meters I would bet, and cash on hand for gas, lunch break, etc.? And probably a credit card or two? And the average Uber driver doesn't have cash tips? I'm sure that's what they tell the IRS! lol. All Uber drivers have a smart phone and a car you can steal. They also have sexy bodies. The BLS stats include Uber drivers, limo drivers, and others in their average.
> 
> I didn't even mention radar detectors and dash cams. Over in the other thread people are talking about their $400 dash cams.
> 
> She pulled out her gun on an innocent person? I missed that part. I seem to remember reading that it was still covered by her jacket and the passenger never saw it. She just removed it from the hidden holster but did not present it. And it wasn't for no reason she was getting prepared for the worst. The passenger was also clutzing around with an electroshock weapon used on cattle, if I recall. The passenger may not have intended to use it as a weapon, but shouldn't have been clutzing around with it if she didn't want to put people in fear. It'd be like if your passenger accidentally started a chainsaw in the backseat. Chainsaw massacre or innocent mistake? It should put you on edge to say the least.
> 
> Well, it is the same as a passenger in my backseat racking the slide on his gun... which is um... the example I used to which you said that I would be getting shot by innocent legal gun owners who happen to be racking their slide in my backseat and shoot me because I pull out my gun, right?
> 
> Frankly I'm shocked you have a CCW. Your attitudes are not like anyone I know who has a CCW. CCW permits are not free, so why would you get one if you would never use lethal force under any circumstance? You are an Uber driver, right? And you think it is irresponsible for an Uber driver to CCW... yet you have one? huh? You think that if you ever use a gun for any reason you are guaranteed a cell net to Bubba? Is that what your CCW instructor told you? He must've been some retired cop type that hates guns. I've seen instructors like that, sadly, that spread FUD rather than giving students a realistic assessment of the legal outcomes of use of force. Yes, you can get in a world of trouble if you are not careful. But it is pretty much a lie if you were told that you can only get boned if you ever use your gun. As long as you only use it
> 
> I ask if you fired a gun, because you keep talking as if you come from some position of authority, yet keep saying things that make no sense to most people who have. It's the type of arguments I always used to hear in college from students that came from foreign countries that thought I was a barbarian for being a gun owner. You clearly have a pessimistic attitude towards the justice system and your fellow citizen. One which I do not share. Since you never killed anyone by your own description I don't see how you have any basis to claim I'd change my mind if I did. Maybe you don't trust yourself to make the right decisions, so you project that on everyone else. I haven't personally shot anyone either, but I know a guy about twice my age who killed a guy in self-defense. He never went to prison. He didn't even give up his guns and become a priest afterwards. No, he still carries guns, in fact he is more emboldened than ever and in fact he always encourages me to carry a gun. He used to be a cab driver but that's not when he shot someone. But he knows a thing or two about driving knows how Uber is different than a cab, and still thinks I should carry.
> 
> What exactly is your basis for assuming that you are screwed if you ever use force? George Zimmerman was acquitted, and his case was far murkier than anything anyone proposed using a weapon for in this thread. There were no witnesses, Martin had no weapon, and Zimmerman was going around seeking trouble (Neighborhood watch). If you got a guy getting stabbed to death and you shoot the guy with a knife to save him, the odds of you going to prison are pretty much zero, unless you executed the guy after he dropped the knife.... In this case you have a witness (the pax getting stabbed) and probably a dash cam also to back up your side of the story. And the guy full of bullet holes has a knife with the other witness's blood on it on the ground next to him.


Ive had a CCW since 1996. I'm a seasoned carrying veteran. The point im making is not to be all willy nilly with a gun. And yes my instructors all warned me about pulling out your weapon. it needs to only be in life threatening situations, ONLY. Really, if you pull your weapon you should only do this if you're about to use it. Analyze what's going on,make sure theres a threat. None of yall are magicians or fortune tellers that can see the future: you will not always know something is about to go down!! Real criminals do things when they know you can't react in time,stop acting like this gun will always save you. Most crimes happens when criminals get teh jump on you. This is 2017 and you can get sued or jail time for lots a things. I know people are not taking all this into consideration, but they will if they shoot somebody. Ask any cop, they do what they do, but they'd rather not have to go through the aftermath of shooting somebody. Its hell.

Take the girl who was willy nily with her gun because she heard something.I say willy nilly because there WAS NO THREAT, she was just being noid. Well if the pax had seen the gun, that's brandishing/assault. Brandishin is producing a weapon when no threatening action is going on. She would have reported to Uber: fired. Then report to police and could get criminal charges and/or civil charges applied. A whole hoop of mess because she's quick to pullotu a weapon over a sound, acting as she's the only person with a CCW. Clearly a pax can too and is not there to rob you. But it could have easily been a shootout if the pax was armed and saw her weapon, knowing he did nothing wrong. You pull a gun on me and im shooting you, quick.

I haven't shot anybody like I said. Nor do I carry my gun when I uber. My gun could be easily taken from me and used to kill be because the passenger always have the jump on me. I use other non-lethal defense items.....Again, if you that noid that you need a GUN to protect yourself, you should be doing Uber. I carry my gun in other situation where I know I have a much better chance of using it than somebody from behind my drivers seat choking me out and I not see it comign.

But I know people who have shot people and ive seen what happens to them. If you know of no one, just google about people that have. If they kill somebody it changes their whole life. I know people on here are not thinking about consequences and aftermath,Im just urging to be much more careful. If you're pulling out your gun when theres actually no trouble going on, you are on the road to destruction. I mean you got people on here getting CCW's so they can protect their radar detectors and GPSs ? smh


----------



## simpsonsverytall

If held up for my tips, I would'nt be able to afford the usual $2 BigBite/BigGulp evening meal, when I use the public restroom @ 7-11...


Have considered conceal carrying an umbrella that shoots out purple smoke, and is equipped w/ a bat-detector.


----------



## swingset

Bart McCoy said:


> Ive had a CCW since 1996.


No one cares.

I carry all the time, not when I feel (strong emphasis on FEEEEEEEL) that I stand the best chance of shooting someone. That's just ridiculous. You're just a mental mess on this issue.

If you don't have any practical experience fighting from within a car (I'm going to bet my life's savings you've never taken a force-on-force training that involved being in the car), it's no wonder you think you're going to get choked out or that your gun will be used against you.

Even if the above were as likely as me using my gun in self-defense while driving, you're ignoring that we don't get to choose when bad stuff happens...it can be when we're exiting the vehicle at a stop or break, when we're gassing up, or over a road-rage scenario where our attacker is outside the vehicle. Your fretting about what other people do didn't even stop for a millisecond to consider these issues, you just want us to be like you and leave the gun at home while we do a dangerous job.

You've been carrying all that time and haven't learned much. Your instructors sucked.


----------



## Trafficat

> Take the girl who was willy nily with her gun because she heard something.I say willy nilly because there WAS NO THREAT, she was just being noid. Well if the pax had seen the gun, that's brandishing/assault. Brandishin is producing a weapon when no threatening action is going on. She would have reported to Uber: fired. Then report to police and could get criminal charges and/or civil charges applied. A whole hoop of mess because she's quick to pullotu a weapon over a sound, acting as she's the only person with a CCW. Clearly a pax can too and is not there to rob you. But it could have easily been a shootout if the pax was armed and saw her weapon, knowing he did nothing wrong. You pull a gun on me and im shooting you, quick.


It wasn't just a sound. The passenger actually had a cattle prod and accidentally activated it. The driver had a gun, yes, but she did not brandish it. It was hidden. But if she was actually attacked by said cattle prod, she should justifiably be in fear of her life, right? The only reason she wasn't justified is because she was able to ascertain that it was accidentally activated and she determined that the cattle prod was not intended as a weapon against her. If cattle prod lady was also a CCW holder, and if the driver did whip out the gun (which she did not), I would also hope cattle prod lady would have enough brains to realize that the reason her driver is whipping out a gun is because she is intimidating the driver with said cattle prod, accidentally or not.

If you were cattle prod lady, would you shoot the driver if you saw the gun, or would you apologize and say you didn't mean to threaten the driver? It would be one thing if the driver pointed a gun at you for no reason, but in this case you are provoking the driver, even if on accident. Your self-defense justification to shoot the driver would go out the window potentially because you provoked the driver first with your cattle prod. In my state self-defense requires that you are not the original aggressor, or that you declined further struggle before the mortal blow was given.

What happens to a person that gets hit with a cattle prod? I imagine it doesn't instantly kill. But it is not something you can fight against with your bare hands. It depends on the power of the prod, but it can put the assailant in total control. For instance, a lady used a cattle prod to incapacitate another woman here and then stabbed her to death: http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/07/ski-i...val-with-cattle-prod-then-killed-her-5993496/

The problem with your analysis is that you keep saying she brandished her weapon when she didn't, and keep saying she reacted to a sound, when the passenger actually had a weapon. Even if she actually did brandish her weapon, while she may be removed from Uber, the fact that the passenger was also brandishing a weapon means the likelihood of criminal charges are pretty low.

If you activated a cattle prod behind a cop he'd probably draw his weapon too, unless he could ascertain it was an accident before he had the chance. And if you kept coming towards him with a cattle prod in his hands, in defiance of his orders to stop, you might even be shot.



Bart McCoy said:


> I mean you got people on here getting CCW's so they can protect their radar detectors and GPSs ? smh


Where did anyone say that? No one said that. You implied no one is likely to rob an Uber driver because they don't carry cash. Uber drivers do carry cash, as well as a lot of other valuable items. No one is talking about shooting a guy in the back who is walking off with your GPS. A robber is defined as a person who uses violence to get what they want. And some robbers will be willing to kill you for what you have. A lady I used to work with got knocked unconscious and nearly died because a guy wanted her purse. If she had a gun and shot the robber, would you say she was shooting to protect her bag? The robber didn't care if he killed her to get that bag.

You could also be attacked because they want to rape you, or they're just crazy.


----------



## Bart McCoy

swingset said:


> No one cares.
> 
> I carry all the time, not when I feel (strong emphasis on FEEEEEEEL) that I stand the best chance of shooting someone. That's just ridiculous. You're just a mental mess on this issue.
> 
> If you don't have any practical experience fighting from within a car (I'm going to bet my life's savings you've never taken a force-on-force training that involved being in the car), it's no wonder you think you're going to get choked out or that your gun will be used against you.
> 
> Even if the above were as likely as me using my gun in self-defense while driving, you're ignoring that we don't get to choose when bad stuff happens...it can be when we're exiting the vehicle at a stop or break, when we're gassing up, or over a road-rage scenario where our attacker is outside the vehicle. Your fretting about what other people do didn't even stop for a millisecond to consider these issues, you just want us to be like you and leave the gun at home while we do a dangerous job.
> 
> You've been carrying all that time and haven't learned much. Your instructors sucked.


If you can't take opinions you need to remove yourself from the board.

NObody cares that you carry 24/7, all that means is that you're more likely to die from your own weapon than me from mine.

And I'm not saying leave the gun home and do a dangerous job. I'm saying if you soft, don't do the dangerous job!

My instructor has taught me well since I'm not in jail or being sued for an Uber event of all things


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## Tippy711

I'm protected by my constitutional right to carry a gun. Uber can't take that away from me. Besides Im not "employed" by Uber I'm an independent contractor. It's my car, my property and I'll make the rules on carrying firearms at my business.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Tippy711 said:


> I'm protected by my constitutional right to carry a gun. Uber can't take that away from me. Besides Im not "employed" by Uber I'm an independent contractor. It's my car, my property and I'll make the rules on carrying firearms at my business.


You'll be fine until the first time you have to use it, then you probobly won't want to uber anymore.


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## CrimzonFiasco

Jesselee23 said:


> I was assaulted by a passenger the other night. When making the police report the officers suggested I get a concealed carry permit for my safety. Uber does not allow concealed carry. After the assault Uber has been reluctant to release the passengers name or information so the police can make an arrest. Furthermore, as of this morning my account has been deactivated until further investigation can take place.


I carry a firearm with my legal permit to carry. I don't broadcast to passengers that it's there but I know it is when I need it. Uber long ago showed us that they don't care about the driver so it's up to us to care about ourselves.


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## FL_Dex

Jesselee23 said:


> Uber does not allow concealed carry.


I think it's ironic that Uber has become huge by ignoring rules and regulations. But they'll deactivate drivers for ignoring their rules. Hypocrite much, Travis?


----------



## Squirming Like A Toad

I don't carry just because some of my profitable rides take me to New York where I can't. It's ridiculous and hopefully Trump will get his legislation through where carry permits are recognized interstate just like drivers licenses. 

As far as Uber's rules, the moment I need to draw a gun out of concealment something very bad has happened and Uber can stick their job up their ass.


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## WellDriven

CrimzonFiasco said:


> I carry a firearm with my legal permit to carry. I don't broadcast to passengers that it's there but I know it is when I need it. Uber long ago showed us that they don't care about the driver so it's up to us to care about ourselves.


LOL!!!! Surely you've not said all that with your PIC shown, so that you can be MATCHED and deactivated! LOL!!!!!

Listen, UBER's anti-firearms policy has challenges on both sides of the same coin. 
However in either case, UBER's anti-firearms policy was/is a "Business Decision"

While Uber Drivers carrying Firearms would be for their OWN safety and/or to likely minimize the chanced of being unlawfully approached by rogue and/or unruly passengers, but all at the cost of potentially scare away "Would-Be" law-abiding Uber Riders/Callers, which then translates into lesser fares and thus negatively effecting Uber's overall bottom-line.

But then again, Law-Abiding Uber Drivers have the "Legal Right" to be just as concerned as to whether their Riders are entering their vehicles while carrying "THEIR OWN" firearm(s).

What "Policies" are in place from Uber to protect their Drivers.

Ironically, Uber Riders carrying firearms on entry into an Uber Driver's Vehicle is far more likely than ever the other-way around. Which in effect places Uber Drivers at a far grater risk of losing their lives on the road than their Riders could ever match by comparison.

While Uber may seek to promote their image of Trust, Comforts and Pleasant/Friendly Riding Experiences to their Riders, Their Drivers are exposed to an open-ended environment of Unguarded, Ungoverned and Unprotected and potentially life threatening circumstances from their Riders.

However, Uber seems to have thought-through on all this as well, in their screening process.
Thereby assuring, right at the gates, that whomever enters into Uber's Paradise, are prescreened and/or documented BEFORE being allowed/granted the privileges of using Uber Services.

Be they Driver or Rider. Which in itself fundamentally minimizes the potential of having unlawful activities occurring under Uber's umbrella.

BUT, While Uber practically have NO CONTROL over Uber Riders that may enter an Uber vehicle WITH their Firearms, , there may yet be Balancing compromises in regards Uber Drivers.

Whereas, Considering the Criminal-Background-checks that Uber uses to Evaluate the credibility of their Potential Drivers, Uber may want to consider allowing THOSE Uber Drivers to carry firearms, though under certain restrictions.

(1) Uber to invoke their own 30 - 45 day grace period to clear Drivers seeking to carry Firearms on Uber-Time. (also motorized/recorded by local law enforcement, including fingerprinting.)

(2) On clearance, said Firearms must be Concealed at ALL TIMES
//of course..

(2) firearm to be equipped with a trigger lock.
//delaying the reactions of potential hot heads.

(3) 'ONE' firearm allowed on persons.
//just enough for self-protection, not to supply a privet army

(4) Firearm must NOT be of a large Capacity
//ditto!

(5) Driver's vehicle MUST be equipped with dash cam(s)
//or audio recording device, capable of live feeds.
//Vehicle must have decals clear view to indicate the above.

(6) Drivers to have a separate "Gun Owner's Insurance" on their Uber Contracts
//Possibly offered by Uber?

And more, but all to the safety of Both Uber Drivers and Riders. 
In an ideal situation, all experiences are as pleasant as should always be expect!

While this may be the most common encounter between Drivers and Riders, all it takes is that one jerk to change lives forever.


----------



## CrimzonFiasco

WellDriven said:


> LOL!!!! Surely you've not said all that with your PIC shown, so that you can be MATCHED and deactivated! LOL!!!!!


*shrugs* if they deactivate me for protecting myself so be it. Uber has way more issues to worry about then my permit to carry.


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## DirkDeadeye

Our goal is to ensure that everyone has a safe and reliable ride. That's why Uber prohibits riders and drivers from carrying firearms of any kind in a vehicle while using our app.*

I'm gonna be loophole Larry today. Notice the asterisk.

"* To the extent permitted by applicable law"

Well, I have a CCW. So I'm actually protected by these applicable laws. Also, there is precedent set by fired employees over carrying I'm areas that are not restricted. You have every right to carry, they have no right to say otherwise.

Good luck with the lawsuit though. They will deadlock it into oblivion, and your only hope is catching a ride on a class action. 

My old employer tried this nonsense years ago..basically I was a sales rep for a soda company and that requires me visiting a lot of stores, a lot of driving, and a lot of being in the wrong neighborhood I carried a Smith and Wesson model 66, and a glock 19, px4 storm for 12 years without incident. Some moron happened to hear me talk to another co-worker about a new carry gun or something in the parking lot joined in, acted interested (like really wanted to look at my gun, to which k said no about 40 times..not pulling it out in a parking lot.. so it went to HR, they threatened to fire me, I hired a lawyer, it got fixed. No troubles after that.


----------



## Trafficat

> (2) On clearance, said Firearms must be Concealed at ALL TIMES
> //of course..
> 
> (2) firearm to be equipped with a trigger lock.
> //delaying the reactions of potential hot heads.
> 
> (3) 'ONE' firearm allowed on persons.
> //just enough for self-protection, not to supply a privet army
> 
> (4) Firearm must NOT be of a large Capacity
> //ditto!


I find it funny when people with minimal experience with guns try to create rules they think make sense. That's why gun laws are dumb because most are passed by people who don't even know the definition of the things they ban.

2-Open carry ) why shouldn't open carry be allowed? Hurt feelings? That's why there are ratings. For every one person offended, 99 don't care. I bet I could keep 4.8 star ratings on Uber if I open carried.

2-trigger locks) Makes firearm useless for self-defense... might as well leave at home if you carry with a trigger lock. Further, toddlers have disabled trigger locks easily in a matter of minutes... and incorrect use can cause the gun to go off. Cable locks are far safer than trigger locks but with either type of lock on your gun you are better off carrying a hammer. I bet most people who recommend trigger locks have never even seen a trigger lock with their own eyes.

3) Makes it so that if your one guns or arms goes out of action you are SOL. I always carry at least two, one to be drawn from either hand. Police almost all carry backup guns for a reason. When driving, a left hand draw is most useful for any threat on the right side of the vehicle and a right hand draw is most useful for defense in the case of driverside window or seat directly behind the driver, if they are towards the door. Especially for car defense, carrying two guns is much better than one. Seat belted into a chair you're going to have a hard time aiming in half the directions if you only have one. Further, you want to balance that weight out. Ever go on a long march with a gun on only one hip? It's much better to have one on each hip. Similarly I opt for the double shoulder holster rig. Doesn't make sense? Imagine carrying a backpack slung over only one shoulder for 10 hours instead of on both shoulders. It's nicer to have a pack that's twice the weight but on both shoulders than one pack all on one shoulder. Plus a bad guy who tackles you can take one gun from you possibly if he is stronger... however, taking and controlling two is going to be difficult without dropping the first one. If you have two hands to control one gun and he only has one free hand it's going to be a little challenging.

4) Google Timothy Gramins... hit a bad guy 17 times with a .45 ACP hollow-point before the bad guy stopped fighting him. That sounds like a rule inspired by hollywood fantasy rather than reality. Reality is that nobody ever wished they had less ammo. There is no benefit to restricting ammo other than decreasing odds of survival. There is a reason cops opt for weapons that hold as many rounds as possible. It also unfairly discriminates against people who carry lower caliber weapons because of issues that make handling recoil ineffective. Say there is an imaginary 7 round limit. The burly guy gets 7 rounds of .50 AE magnum but the tiny old guy with arthritis can only handle a .22 magnum. A normal sized grip can hold 7 rounds of .50AE or 30 rounds of .22 magnum. Limiting the .22 magnum seems to be some strange plot against the elderly. Ideally fully automatic weapons would be available also. The reality is that 6 out of 7 people survive being shot by a handgun. That stat comes out of Dr. Andreas Grabinsky's gun shot wound video, which also contains snippets of guys getting shot in the chest and barely reacting. One round could drop someone instantly, or it could have almost no effect. Some competition shooters have split times around 1/5 of a second though, so if the first bullet doesn't work out maybe the second will do the trick, or the third, or the fourth.

Not only are all shots not effective, but not all shots hit either. Police miss about 70-80% of the shots they fire against people. Google the NYPD hit rate stats. Repeat shots are necessary if your first shot misses, or simply lacks the desired effect. The desired effect is the threat ceasing.


----------



## DirkDeadeye

WellDriven said:


> (1) Uber to invoke their own 30 - 45 day grace period to clear Drivers seeking to carry Firearms on Uber-Time. (also motorized/recorded by local law enforcement, including fingerprinting.)
> 
> (2) On clearance, said Firearms must be Concealed at ALL TIMES
> //of course..
> 
> (2) firearm to be equipped with a trigger lock.
> //delaying the reactions of potential hot heads.
> 
> (3) 'ONE' firearm allowed on persons.
> //just enough for self-protection, not to supply a privet army
> 
> (4) Firearm must NOT be of a large Capacity
> //ditto!
> 
> (5) Driver's vehicle MUST be equipped with dash cam(s)
> //or audio recording device, capable of live feeds.
> //Vehicle must have decals clear view to indicate the above.
> 
> (6) Drivers to have a separate "Gun Owner's Insurance" on their Uber Contracts
> //Possibly offered by Uber?
> 
> And more, but all to the safety of Both Uber Drivers and Riders.
> In an ideal situation, all experiences are as pleasant as should always be expect!
> 
> While this may be the most common encounter between Drivers and Riders, all it takes is that one jerk to change lives forever.


1.) Why? Just require a CCW. The legwork is done.
.2)Derp
3.)is your share of the fare enough, is 15 dollars enough to retreive lost items? You drive anything larger than an escape, why? An escape is enough. It gets grating doesn't it? This is (I presume) the United States of America. You want "Enough" you're in the wrong country, im sorry.
4.)What does capacity have to do with anything? You're in a high stress situation, you might need more than 6-10 rounds. Chances are the gun is a compact/subcompact, probably isn't. We're encroaching on that enough thing again. It's never enough if your life is at stake.
5.)Hell yeah, dash cams.
6.)Why do we need a rider for that? I don't carry extra homeowners insurance (outside of replacing lost or stolen guns), or extra car insurance. This is a means to stifle 2nd amendment rights through accessibility.


----------



## Spotscat

Our beloved legislature did away with CCW permits effective January 1st of this year. Open carry and concealed carry are legal statewide, with a few exceptions.


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## RussellP

Maine no longer requires CCW either. Anyone can conceal or open carry (assuming you're not otherwise prohibited from posessing firearms).


----------



## Uber Crack

Two words: BRASS KNUCKLES


----------



## Trafficat

Uber Crack said:


> Two words: BRASS KNUCKLES


In my state you can carry a machinegun in public... but brass knuckles are illegal to even keep at your house.


----------



## Uber Crack

Oops!


----------



## Dave2016

I never never go out with out my firearm it's registered have a c.c.w. And uber has no right to tell an independent contractor they can't protect themselves legally I may add

Want my guns come pry them out of my cold dead hands that's the only way


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Dave2016 said:


> I never never go out with out my firearm it's registered have a c.c.w. And uber has no right to tell an independent contractor they can't protect themselves legally I may add


if you were an independent contractor with a janitorial services contract at a federal courthouse, could they tell you they don't want weapons on the job?


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## Dave2016

That's different if be in a federal building not inside my own property that I am legally allowed to protect. ******


----------



## DirkDeadeye

I_Like_Spam said:


> if you were an independent contractor with a janitorial services contract at a federal courthouse, could they tell you they don't want weapons on the job?


Holy hypothetical strawman batman!


----------



## I_Like_Spam

DirkDeadeye said:


> Holy hypothetical strawman batman!


on the other hand, when i drove yellow cab, they owned the vehicle and only recommended that drivers not pack heat.

the yc president explained to a newspaper reporter that they had no control over their indy contractor drivers


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## Dave2016

That's right stay safe protect your self and car. Always legally carry a firearm. 

Ad I am in vegas on gun laws here. Everyone is encouraged to carry. Open carry if desired


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## DirkDeadeye

Dave2016 said:


> That's right stay safe protect your self and car. Always legally carry a firearm.
> 
> Ad I am in vegas on gun laws here. Everyone is encouraged to carry. Open carry if desired


I'm not a fan of open carry. If some nutjob wants to shoot up a place, he's gonna single me out first, if he see's a gun on my hip. As much as I'd like to get my Patton on, with a single action colt .45 and probably a model 66 or 686.


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## Dave2016

I agree I rarely open to carry. Mostly it's under my shirt. To .any wa n jobs out there so stay safe and use guns responsibly


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## John J Mutz

It is better to be judged by 12 jurors than to be carryed by 6 pallbearers


----------



## PayTheLady

Bart McCoy said:


> eh, what's a cattle prod?
> 
> Couple things:
> 
> 1) you clearly should NOT be driving your Uber. You are too trigger happy,and simply too noid to be driving for Uber. You will be on the losing end of a lawsuit or jail time very soon
> 
> 2) if a passenger REALLY wants to do something to you, you will NOT have time to slam on breaks and turn around. Remember, you are facing forward. If dealing with a seasoned criminal, or even a newbie criminal, *YOU WILL NOT SEE THE DANGER COMING, *unless you are a mutant and have eyes in the back of your head. Sad to say but your neck can be choked out, you can be shot, or your throat slit way because you slam breaks, turn around, and draw your weapon.* THE PAX IN THE BACK SEAT WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE JUMP ON YOU*


You're ridiculous. Have I pulled a trigger? Never once outside of a range. Am I armed at all times and able to defend myself and others? Absolutely. I don't brandish a weapon, ever. If a person can see a knife, stun gun, or firearm in my hand, and my eyes are on them, they are definitely about to be injured. With one exception in my entire life have I drawn my pistol in my own self defense, and that was it, in the story above. I have drawn it several times in defense of passengers who were either too intoxicated to realize they were endangering us, or soberly aware of the threat in question, and relieved I was prepared.

Since the event described, I sat with a passenger for half an hour in a very dark, isolated lot, in the middle of the night, while she awaited the return of the driver who towed her car from where her son parked it. I knew the area well, and was comfortable enough with our backs facing a dead end, and the car doors locked. She was visibly agitated, so I asked her if she carries. Once she informed me that her pistol was in the towed car, I revealed mine, chambered a round, and put it on the center console, safety on. She was immediately relaxed, and tipped me $40 on a $40 fare. When I finally left her, after waiting to see her get into her car, she came over and gave me a hug and kiss.

Your hyperventilating is for nothing. You don't even know what a cattle prod is, but you think if one is going off directly behind me, in my dark car, in the hood, I'm overreacting to draw a pistol while I assess the situation? That's illogical. In a car, an activated cattle prod is a threat. That stupid woman almost killed her own baby, but if she had been trying to use it on me, she'd for sure have been shot. I heard it before she even fully got it out of her purse. That is an appropriate response to someone attempting to electrocute me. Not shooting someone who is willing and able to electrocute me is foolish. I'm not a fool.

I was working Lyft in Hampton the other day. I didn't have a pistol because I was going to be spending time around children without a gun safe. Still had two knives, a hammer, a stun gun, and a good torch lighter. I saw a man beating a woman on Shell Road and approached with one of the knives. Between the knife, and the description of him I was giving to the emergency operator, he decided to leave. I did tell him I was going to hurt him if I got close enough, and I would have. He left before I got to their side of the road.

It's okay if you're easily victimize-able, and too selfish, afraid or incompetent to help others. I'm not. It's okay if you've never been in danger and don't know how to respond to it. I don't have that handicap. The one time someone tried to kidnap me, I stabbed him behind the clavicle and wiggled the tool around until I was pretty sure I'd punctured his lung. Then, I escaped. I'm not the one, and that's why I'm here to tell that story. That doesn't make me reckless, nor trigger happy. The fact that a rear passenger has an advantage over me does not negate the fact that in some possible scenarios, a pistol can still be a saving grace. Moreover, my car is an SUV. I have "Mommy mirrors". I can absolutely see what is happening in the back seat. Sit down and be humble if you don't know the whole sitch.



I_Like_Spam said:


> A lot of "ifs" there.
> 
> Most of your criminals aren't interested in a fight at all, they just want your money. I guess they could attack you from the back seat in a moving vehicle, but that puts them in danger- they don't want that.
> 
> Further, you can see the danger coming, its called being aware of your surroundings and knowing when you have a nogoodnik in the back seat. Don't need "eyes in the back of your head", you have a rear view mirror.
> 
> I don't think a small handgun is really very helpful, a large gun that can be used as a club as well is better for infighting in the close quarters of a car.


Beretta P40 Storm. Small enough to hide, heavy enough to inflict blunt trauma.


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## Saltyoldman

Gotta love these Nevada gun laws


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## peteyvavs

The problem with carrying a weapon is that you have to prove that you weren't the person who started the altercation. If you carry a weapon and have to use it make damn sure you have a camera in the car to support your self defense claim, otherwise some over zealous prosecutor may want to use you to advance their career.
Here in Florida you don't need to have a CCW to carry a gun in your car.


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## Pinch

I had a recent pickup that as I arrived the front door to the house opened and about 20 frat guys were swinging haymakers at some folks. It turned out those folks were my ride. I got them in my car and started to drive off. I was then surrounded by a mob who started pounding on my car. I managed to get out if the situation and delivered the passengers safely. Fortunately, no damage to my car. I contacted Uber about carrying my 9mm with me. It took about three requests but they finally responded that they abide by state laws. I live in Arizona so carrying is a right and Uber will not penalize drivers for following state law. They listed five states. Sorry, I can’t remember the others. Contact Uber for their policy on your state.


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## peteyvavs

If you decide to carry a firearm while driving it would be better to carry a small caliber pistol for a couple of reasons. A small caliber pistol is easier to control in a tight environment, and second the blast won't do as much damage to your hearing as a large caliber would.
Anyone who has been to a pistol range can attest to the fact that a closed environment like a range or car and a firearm discharged can impact the ones hearing tremendously.


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## Pinch

All valid points and I do have experience with firearms. My point was that Uber, although not condoning carrying firearms, will abide by state laws and not penalize drivers who want to protect themselves in states that permit such actions. Unfortunately, it appears they will penalize drivers in the other 45 states.


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## peteyvavs

Pinch said:


> All valid points and I do have experience with firearms. My point was that Uber, although not condoning carrying firearms, will abide by state laws and not penalize drivers who want to protect themselves in states that permit such actions. Unfortunately, it appears they will penalize drivers in the other 45 states.


I personally don't give a RATS AZZ what Uber's policies, I rather be safe then get killed while Uber tries to figure how much they can screw me for from the grave.
Remember Uber is in the land of pansies(SF) where p..sies reside. I have seen what type of people work for Uber, very few Americans and the rest are wimps.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

peteyvavs said:


> If you decide to carry a firearm while driving it would be better to carry a small caliber pistol for a couple of reasons. A small caliber pistol is easier to control in a tight environment, and second the blast won't do as much damage to your hearing as a large caliber would.
> Anyone who has been to a pistol range can attest to the fact that a closed environment like a range or car and a firearm discharged can impact the ones hearing tremendously.


My advice is to go with a 38 Snubnose revolver, go with hollow points.


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## twnFM

Jose_A said:


> This just makes me even more pissed at DC's gun laws. I have a Virginia CCW and a Glock 19. Unfortunately, the do-gooders on the DC city government think it's better to empower criminals (they're criminals themselves) than to let law abiding citizens protect themselves, that kinda goes for Maryland too. If only DC and Maryland had the same respect for the right to self-defense that Virginia has, I'd never drive without my gun. I always carry my spyderco knife when I drive, and fortunately I've only ever had to pull it once, and it wasn't even on a pax.


Gotta love Texas, we can carry guns and have a fast lane to death row!


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