# My friend says he isn't tipping. Philosophy was built on a lie.



## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

He says Uber is all about the cashless experience. No hassles, get in and get out of the car. He obviously doesn't follow the news or know anything about the CEO getting voted out.

Here is my gripe with Uber and how they were running things. I feel that they built their reputation built on a lie. Or at least it comes across that way. The idea is that you get in and out of the car and you don't need to tip because it's an app and you pay what you pay. And Travis took this too far. Have seen videos of him saying that a tip is included.

So that is beyond unethical. To build your whole business based on misinformation and tricking people, whether intentional or not. Some people like the idea of not having to tip because they think it's a hassle and unnecessary. But at the end of the day a tip is still a tip. And not tipping is still not tipping. Just because you're using an app and the company sold you on an idea does not make reality any different.

Yea Uber made up a nice theory about how tipping should work. But theory and reality are two different things. Some people live in this fairy tale where they think Uber drivers don't even want tips and that tips are either included or they are compensated fairly enough.

And so the company boosted their sales by getting people who either don't want to tip or thought that a tip was included. Either way, the company grew based off of misinformation and deceiving.

And who knows. Maybe people will be upset when they find out that their is a tip option now. Because they were told that Tips weren't expected. They were told that tips were included. Some people may now discover the real truth, that all along they were either being lied to or were misinformed. All of this could have been avoided if Uber didn't go down this road in the first place.

It would have been more upfront if Uber just said something like ''We advise you to not tip. Our drivers are well compensated (well not really). So we make sure they get what they are worth.''

But they didn't want do word it like that. Instead they said that Uber is a cashless experience and it's hassle free. They went out of their way to confuse people.

The concept of Uber sounds good in theory. But they took their concept too far and misrepresented the reality behind it all. In other words, there was a catch. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. And it was.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Just because an option is there that allows one to tip does not mean that a tip is required or expected in any way. Yes there should have been an option in the app that allowed for tipping all along but it will have little effect on tips now that it is there.


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## UberDez (Mar 28, 2017)

My cash tips over the last week have been insane ,over half my rides have tipped $5 to $20 . Granted I've only give 17 rides and 9 have tipped 
Don't know if that has anything to do with uber saying it's going to add a tipping option but I'm not complaining


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

$90.00 cash tips in 6 hours last night !
Pizza Hut.
The work is more Emotionally Rewarding also.


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## Nomad (Jul 30, 2015)

DRider85 said:


> So that is beyond unethical. To build your whole business based on misinformation and tricking people


This is the main reason a lot of us don't trust the 180 days email. Every time Uber has been judged to be unethical, they've turned it around to say that they will change (and they usually make it sound like it was their idea to change). Meanwhile, they implement a different method of being unethical somewhere else (i.e. upfront pricing).

You know those people that are in abusive relationships but won't leave and you wonder how they could be so blind to the fact that they don't have to put up with black eyes and emotional abuse? Whelp, that's us... only we're relying on this relationship to eat


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

DRider85 said:


> But at the end of the day a tip is still a tip. And not tipping is still not tipping.


Truly profound words, and as insightful as ever. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Just because an option is there that allows one to tip does not mean that a tip is required or expected in any way. Yes there should have been an option in the app that allowed for tipping all along but it will have little effect on tips now that it is there.





elelegido said:


> Truly profound words, and as insightful as ever. Thanks for clearing that up.


Let me clarify. Some people think you don't tip an Uber because it's Uber. Just because it's uber doesn't make the reality any different regarding your tipping etiquette. That's just social pleading. A complete fallacy.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Let me clarify. Some people think you don't tip an Uber because it's Uber. Just because it's uber doesn't make the reality any different regarding your tipping etiquette. That's just social pleading. A complete fallacy.


There are many places that it is not customary to tip:
Mcdonalds
Best Buy 
mail person
ups 
insurance agent
Uber driver

Uber driver is just one in a long list of jobs that tipping is not required or expected.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> There are many places that it is not customary to tip:
> Mcdonalds
> Best Buy
> mail person
> ...


Well now you seem to be contracting yourself cuz you said uber is not a job and now you're comparing to other jobs.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Well now you seem to be contracting yourself cuz you said uber is not a job and now you're comparing to other jobs.


nope it should not be a job, but many treat it like it were and either way no tipping is expected or required.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> nope it should not be a job, but many treat it like it were and either way no tipping is expected or required.


That's why I said its social pleading. If a taxi driver deserves a tip so does an uber driver.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> That's why I said its social pleading. If a taxi driver deserves a tip so does an uber driver.


No while it may be a similar service, they are different. That would be like saying that because a server brings out your food and drinks, that a person working in fast food should also get a tip because in many places they are starting to also bring out your food and drinks.

When a company you are contracting for has from the very beginning said that tips are not required and even discouraged tipping, than you are not deserving of tips when you work for that company, even if they do the same exact things that another working for another company does that does receive tips.

Additionally nobody by virtue of what they do, deserves a tip. A tip is always voluntary and non compulsory otherwise it is just a fee and not a tip.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> No while it may be a similar service, they are different. That would be like saying that because a server brings out your food and drinks, that a person working in fast food should also get a tip because in many places they are starting to also bring out your food and drinks.
> 
> When a company you are contracting for has from the very beginning said that tips are not required and even discouraged tipping, than you are not deserving of tips when you work for that company, even if they do the same exact things that another working for another company does that does receive tips.
> 
> Additionally nobody by virtue of what they do, deserves a tip. A tip is always voluntary and non compulsory otherwise it is just a fee and not a tip.


Well if they bring out food and drinks they should get a tip, so I still don't understand your point. I never said they shouldn't, but haven't seen it. So I will still say that even though taxi is different they are practically the same.

Uber did say tips are not required but again I have to bring up the fact their slogan was misleading to most because they think a tip is included. So the fact they lied tells more about them... They did build their philosophy on a lie that tips were included when they were not. That's taking things too far.

And you are saying nobody deserves a tip. But then if you get your food spat in then that's something you will have to deal with.


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber should add tips automatically!


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> And you are saying nobody deserves a tip. But then if you get your food spat in then that's something you will have to deal with.


And that is one of the reasons that Uber drivers do not get tips, they have no leverage to get them.

I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> And that is one of the reasons that Uber drivers do not get tips, they have no leverage to get them.
> 
> I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.


So in other words you're just a POS.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Nick781 said:


> Uber should add tips automatically!


Than it is not really a tip is it, but rather a service fee.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Than it is not really a tip is it, but rather a service fee.


What are you doing here?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> So in other words you're just a POS.


If not tipping makes me that than hell yea I am, I don't get guilted into tipping either.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> If not tipping makes me that than hell yea I am, I don't get guilted into tipping either.


And that's why I'm more ethical than you.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> And that's why I'm more ethical than you.


If you use how someone tips is a factor in your ethics scale than I am sure that you are.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> If you use how someone tips is a factor in your ethics scale than I am sure that you are.


So are you just here to argue about tips?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> So are you just here to argue about tips?


I take part in other conversations as well, but yes anti tipping is one of my favorite topics.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I take part in other conversations as well, but yes anti tipping is one of my favorite topics.


You are just playing Devil's Advocate.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> You are just playing Devil's Advocate.


No, I truly despise tipping and how it is in our society now.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> No, I truly despise tipping and how it is in our society now.


You despite it because we despise people like you who are cheap then. Why are you cheap?


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

Uberfunitis said:


> Than it is not really a tip is it, but rather a service fee.


They do that at restaurants, we can do it too!


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> You despite it because we despise people like you who are cheap then. Why are you cheap?


First of all I don't really care what anybody things about how I tip, I would like others to stop tipping or at least decrease their tipping as well.

I despise tipping because it does not do anything to encourage better service. A tip has become in many peoples mind a standard and something that should be given regardless if the service is good or not. A rating system could have a better results and be a more consistent motivator for good service especially if someones ability to keep his or her job is tied directly to that rating system.

I am cheap because I would rather pay the least amount that I possibly can to receive the best service that I possibly can, I make no excuses for that I would rather have money setting in my pocket than others, when given a choice that still gets me the goods and services that I desire.



Nick781 said:


> They do that at restaurants, we can do it too!


Even in restaurants you can talk with management and get the gratuity removed. Though I usually don't eat in places that do that. Instead I would rather they just have the price of the food whatever it needs to be and pay their people what they need to. If the cost of the food is something that I find find worthwhile I will eat otherwise I will not.


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

Too bad! we should still do it!


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> First of all I don't really care what anybody things about how I tip, I would like others to stop tipping or at least decrease their tipping as well.
> 
> I despise tipping because it does not do anything to encourage better service. A tip has become in many peoples mind a standard and something that should be given regardless if the service is good or not. A rating system could have a better results and be a more consistent motivator for good service especially if someones ability to keep his or her job is tied directly to that rating system.
> 
> I am cheap because I would rather pay the least amount that I possibly can to receive the best service that I possibly can, I make no excuses for that I would rather have money setting in my pocket than others, when given a choice that still gets me the goods and services that I desire.


Our job is to drive you to where you need to go. If you don't tip, do you at least not ask for favors? Don't ask for favors and not tip.


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## Just Another Uber Drive (Jul 15, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> $90.00 cash tips in 6 hours last night !
> Pizza Hut.
> The work is more Emotionally Rewarding also.


And infinitely better smelling no doubt.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Even though I'm not a waiter I do feel that you should be banned from most restaurants. You're just into screwing other people.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Our job is to drive you to where you need to go. If you don't tip, do you at least not ask for favors? Don't ask for favors and not tip.


The job is not clearly defined anywhere. Expectations are set by the passenger, you either meet those expectations or you do not. That is where the rating system comes in to manage expectations. If I am alone in thinking that you should be doing something and give a one star because you do not than nothing much happens. However, if other also rate you low than than it is clear that you are not performing up to expectations.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> The job is not clearly defined anywhere. Expectations are set by the passenger, you either meet those expectations or you do not. That is where the rating system comes in to manage expectations. If I am alone in thinking that you should be doing something and give a one star because you do not than nothing much happens. However, if other also rate you low than than it is clear that you are not performing up to expectations.


You said it's not a job... Why do you keep flip flopping? Anyways, I'm saying as a person please don't expect the world and do nothing in return. You're a POS.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> You said it's not a job... Why do you keep flip flopping? Anyways, I'm saying as a person please don't expect the world and do nothing in return. You're a POS.


Rideshare should not be a job, but If I am paying you money than there are expectations that I have for that money, either you meet them or you do not and I rate and you rate accordingly. I expect everything that I ask for to be included in the price that I agreed to pay. Again if my expectations are out of sync with everyone else than nothing happens.

I am expecting to receive exactly what I pay for, you may not agree what that payment includes but that is for the ratings to sort.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Rideshare should not be a job, but If I am paying you money than there are expectations that I have for that money, either you meet them or you do not and I rate and you rate accordingly. I expect everything that I ask for to be included in the price that I agreed to pay. Again if my expectations are out of sync with everyone else than nothing happens.
> 
> I am expecting to receive exactly what I pay for, you may not agree what that payment includes but that is for the ratings to sort.


So what you are saying is that a person who does a bad job deserves the same pay. Sure, you might get rated differently but in the end ratings are sort of irrelevant. You realize that we're here to make money, not get good reviews right?

You say you are expecting to receive what you paid for and that is just a ride to where you need to go. So please don't ask for waters or Aux Cords. That is something simple to ask for.

If you continue to disagree with every point I make then it means you just want to argue my points. At least try to find some middle ground with me.


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## CenCal559 (Jun 2, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> Just because an option is there that allows one to tip does not mean that a tip is required or expected in any way. Yes there should have been an option in the app that allowed for tipping all along but it will have little effect on tips now that it is there.


especially you...lol


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Also, if you are so against tips, then why did you say there should have been an option? You are confusing me.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> So what you are saying is that a person who does a bad job deserves the same pay. Sure, you might get rated differently but in the end ratings are sort of irrelevant. You realize that we're here to make money, not get good reviews right?
> 
> You say you are expecting to receive what you paid for and that is just a ride to where you need to go. So please don't ask for waters or Aux Cords. That is something simple to ask for.
> 
> If you continue to disagree with every point I make then it means you just want to argue my points. At least try to find some middle ground with me.


A person who does a bad job should not keep their job, they should receive no pay at all and Uber does deactivate people from their network who get below a certain threshold.

That is what you say the payment is for, I say it is for all those things, the water, the aux cord, extra stops, arriving safely in a timely manor, etc what it includes is not defined.

If you say you want to shoot me in the head and I say I don't want you to shoot me at all, how can I compromise, what would that even look like. OK OK you can shoot me in the foot but only with a small caliber gun?


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> A person who does a bad job should not keep their job, they should receive no pay at all and Uber does deactivate people from their network who get below a certain threshold.
> 
> That is what you say the payment is for, I say it is for all those things, the water, the aux cord, extra stops, arriving safely in a timely manor, etc what it includes is not defined.
> 
> If you say you want to shoot me in the head and I say I don't want you to shoot me at all, how can I compromise, what would that even look like. OK OK you can shoot me in the foot but only with a small caliber gun?


So you provide all those things bro? Or are you a hypocrite? I really think you're just trolling and I know that word is overused but nobody would do all those things for free. What world do you live in? People don't do free favors.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Also, if you are so against tips, then why did you say there should have been an option? You are confusing me.


What is confusing? Just because I have no intention of using that function does not mean that I don't think it should be available for others who do choose to use it.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> What is confusing? Just because I have no intention of using that function does not mean that I don't think it should be available for others who do choose to use it.


You said you don't agree with it so why would you support others getting tips? You are confusing me. Like I said, I consider myself reasonable. So try to find some middle ground with me or it seems you're just trying to create controversy.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> So you provide all those things bro? Or are you a hypocrite? I really think you're just trolling and I know that word is overused but nobody would do all those things for free. What world do you live in? People don't do free favors.


I do those things, and I do not do them for free, I am being paid a rate that I agreed to. I do refuse extra payments for services that have already been paid for as well... as in I do not accept tips anymore.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I do those things, and I do not do them for free, I am being paid a rate that I agreed to. I do refuse extra payments for services that have already been paid for as well... as in I do not accept tips anymore.


Then you're wasting your own time and it doesn't seem believable. I'm not buying it.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> You said you don't agree with it so why would you support others getting tips? You are confusing me. Like I said, I consider myself reasonable. So try to find some middle ground with me or it seems you're just trying to create controversy.


There is no middle ground I do not agree with tips at all but I will not stand in the way of others who agree to that arrangement. Though I will try and dissuade them from doing it.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> There is no middle ground I do not agree with tips at all but I will not stand in the way of others who agree to that arrangement. Though I will try and dissuade them from doing it.


If you don't agree with tips would you at least consider higher rates?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> If you don't agree with tips would you at least consider higher rates?


Only if they increased quality standards in terms of ratings requirements and vehicle requirements so that less people qualified or were willing to do the job.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Only if they increased quality standards in terms of ratings requirements and vehicle requirements so that less people qualified or were willing to do the job.


So let me ask you this. Are you right? Or is it your opinion.

Uberfunitis why do U drive for uber?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> So let me ask you this. Are you right? Or is it your opinion.
> 
> Uberfunitis why do U drive for uber?


It is of course my opinion that tipping is bad and it is the right decision for me. That is why I think that the tipping function should be included for those who do not share my opinion so that they may choose to tip or not at their own choosing despite my dislike and attempts to dissuade them of tipping in general.

I partner with Uber as a driver and a passenger because I see value in both activities. I drive because I find it enjoyable getting out of the house and interacting with people in a way that gives me some extra spending money along the way. As a passenger I like Uber because of its low costs to use and value of service for the price.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> It is of course my opinion that tipping is bad and it is the right decision for me. That is why I think that the tipping function should be included for those who do not share my opinion so that they may choose to tip or not at their own choosing despite my dislike and attempts to dissuade them of tipping in general.
> 
> I partner with Uber as a driver and a passenger because I see value in both activities. I drive because I find it enjoyable getting out of the house and interacting with people in a way that gives me some extra spending money along the way. As a passenger I like Uber because of its low costs to use and value of service for the price.


Well I can at least respect that you are okay with the tipping option. Just seems very strange to me that you would dissuade others from using it but at the same time think there should be a tip option. Isn't that kind of ironic?

Now let me say this. You provide all the amenities? Where does uber say that we should carry those things as part of the job? I know it's encouraged but it was never set in stone.

I find it funny you think uber is a hobby you do in free time for some spending money. I'm not saying that's wrong but in order to make the money you have to spend time and lots of hours getting the money. It doesn't just fall in your lap while you watch tv or something. Some people may like it but I would say most people don't consider uber a hobby, but at least a 2nd job. I mean I don't think many would do it for free like other hobbies. When you pay money to go to a movie, that's entertainment. Uber is like that?


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## Nomad (Jul 30, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> No while it may be a similar service, they are different. That would be like saying that because a server brings out your food and drinks, that a person working in fast food should also get a tip because in many places they are starting to also bring out your food and drinks.


First, the fast food people don't check on you for refills, bring you sides, or really WAIT on you at all. You also walk up to the counter to order as opposed to sitting down and have someone cater to your every need. Most of the time, when they bring food out to you, it's because they're trying to get out from behind the counter as opposed to trying to go that extra mile so you enjoy your double cheeseburger.

Secondly, and this is the most important factor, fast food workers are paid minimum wage or more, whereas servers are paid below minimum wage with the expectation that the opportunity to make tips will outweigh the difference if they provide good enough customer service.

When Uber started, drivers were making great money and tips truly were not needed, but a ton of rate cuts later and tips are necessary to motivate good customer service. Otherwise, we end up with disgruntled, underpaid workers who are wielding a two-ton hunk of death metal through the city.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Nomad said:


> First, the fast food people don't check on you for refills, bring you sides, or really WAIT on you at all. You also walk up to the counter to order as opposed to sitting down and have someone cater to your every need. Most of the time, when they bring food out to you, it's because they're trying to get out from behind the counter as opposed to trying to go that extra mile so you enjoy your double cheeseburger.
> 
> Secondly, and this is the most important factor, fast food workers are paid minimum wage or more, whereas servers are paid below minimum wage with the expectation that the opportunity to make tips will outweigh the difference if they provide good enough customer service.
> 
> When Uber started, drivers were making great money and tips truly were not needed, but a ton of rate cuts later and tips are necessary to motivate good customer service. Otherwise, we end up with disgruntled, underpaid workers who are wielding a two-ton hunk of death metal through the city.


Good post. I want to add that tips weren't needed at the beginning because of the pay. But they weren't included just because it felt like they were. So Travis was still spreading misinformation when he said it's all included.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Nomad said:


> Secondly, and this is the most important factor, fast food workers are paid minimum wage or more, whereas servers are paid below minimum wage with the expectation that the opportunity to make tips will outweigh the difference if they provide good enough customer service.


That is actually not true at all. Servers who are tipped are guaranteed to make at least the federal minimum wage when tips and wages are combined, If tips + wage is not enough to make the minimum wage the employer must make up the difference.


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## Stripzip (Mar 16, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> And that is one of the reasons that Uber drivers do not get tips, they have no leverage to get them.
> 
> I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.





Uberfunitis said:


> I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.


That comment is proof you know that not tipping is wrong.

You know you are wrong and take pride in screwing the lowest paid employees as often as you can get away with it.

Why don't you announce to the server before you ever order that you have no intention on tipping?

Chicken?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Stripzip said:


> That comment is proof you know that not tipping is wrong.
> 
> You know you are wrong and take pride in screwing the lowest paid employees as often as you can get away with it.
> 
> ...


It is not that it is wrong not to tip, there is nothing wrong with not tipping at all. Tipping is a form of extortion if you don't pay you can expect bad things to happen. In the example of the restaurant server, If I do not pay the extortion aka tip, if I were to return to that establishment I would more than likely get stuff done to my food.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

This will all be a moot point in about 1 more generation, the millennials hate tipping and they love them some Uber. Once there's enough of them and whatever disaster follows them, tips will be a distant memory.

They've also been brainwashed to think everyone should be paid $15/hr no matter their job, so tipping doesn't fit into that paradigm.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

While i agree in principle with Uberfunitis that im not a fan of the concept of tipping. If the bill says $20, i want to pay $20. I would rather all restaurants just start charging 20% more and drip the concept of tips. I would not stop tipping servers before rates went up

That being said, uber is so unberrably cheap compared to taxi that i would not stop tipping until drivers rates went up.

When a driver earns $3.75 for 30 min of work and no tip, its ridiculous. In slow times like now he may not get another ride that hour. Even if he does, thats $7.50 minus expenses.

The problem with comparing restaurants to fast food is theres a significant doward distinction in the two while rideshare services can be better then many taxis.

I would much rather rates were doubled and tipping not be expected on uber.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

What bugs me more than this dude trolling on tipping, is DRider85 starting every thread with "my friend told me" or "my friend thinks".
Just own it and say what's on your mind.
If you really are having these conversations with a friend, which I doubt, that doesn't mean you need to come here and tell us all what he thinks.
Why is his opinion so important?


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> What bugs me more than this dude trolling on tipping, is DRider85 starting every thread with "my friend told me" or "my friend thinks".
> Just own it and say what's on your mind.
> If you really are having these conversations with a friend, which I doubt, that doesn't mean you need to come here and tell us all what he thinks.
> Why is his opinion so important?


Haha I always questioned that too. It's like on those drug forums where everyone is required to refer to the subject of the conversation as SWIM: Someone Who Isn't Me.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

DRider85 said:


> He says Uber is all about the cashless experience. No hassles, get in and get out of the car. He obviously doesn't follow the news or know anything about the CEO getting voted out.
> 
> Here is my gripe with Uber and how they were running things. I feel that they built their reputation built on a lie. Or at least it comes across that way. The idea is that you get in and out of the car and you don't need to tip because it's an app and you pay what you pay. And Travis took this too far. Have seen videos of him saying that a tip is included.
> 
> ...


You should write a memoir based on your posts here. I have a working title for you: Entropy of a Newbie.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> nope it should not be a job, but many treat it like it were and either way no tipping is expected or required.


If it weren't a job for many, I doubt people in SF would be able to get Uber rides reliably. Then they wouldn't bother with it.


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## mKat (May 19, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> No while it may be a similar service, they are different. That would be like saying that because a server brings out your food and drinks, that a person working in fast food should also get a tip because in many places they are starting to also bring out your food and drinks.
> 
> When a company you are contracting for has from the very beginning said that tips are not required and even discouraged tipping, than you are not deserving of tips when you work for that company, even if they do the same exact things that another working for another company does that does receive tips.
> 
> Additionally nobody by virtue of what they do, deserves a tip. A tip is always voluntary and non compulsory otherwise it is just a fee and not a tip.


There are no servers in fast food joints. Please get real. The definition of a server goes far beyond physical labor. A server knows the menu inside and out. A server can suggest a wine based on your food selection, or can suggest a complete food/wine pairing. Servers make sure your dining experience is enjoyable throughout your visit. Servers provide a valuable service which goes way beyond walking from the kitchen carrying stuff. Servers like this deserve a healthy tip.

I find it hard to believe you need this spelled out for you. Perhaps you're just very young and naive.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

mKat said:


> There are no servers in fast food joints. Please get real. The definition of a server goes far beyond physical labor. A server knows the menu inside and out. A server can suggest a wine based on your food selection, or can suggest a complete food/wine pairing. Servers make sure your dining experience is enjoyable throughout your visit. Servers provide a valuable service which goes way beyond walking from the kitchen carrying stuff. Servers like this deserve a healthy tip.
> 
> I find it hard to believe you need this spelled out for you. Perhaps you're just very young and naive.


No I go out to eat at sit down restaurants often, perhaps too often most of the "servers" don't really know what is on the menu, unless you go to a high end restaurant the most you can hope for is that they bring your food out hot and can manage to swing by and refill your drink before you run out, and they fail at that about half the time. The only thing that they are good at most of the time is bringing the check.

I have had far better service at fast food restaurants like Chic-fil-a


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> $90.00 cash tips in 6 hours last night !
> Pizza Hut.
> The work is more Emotionally Rewarding also.


Plus from time to time you get to meet these guys:


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> A tip is always voluntary and non compulsory otherwise it is just a fee and not a tip.


Wrong again. A number of restaurants have implemented a mandatory service charge on all orders and even a larger number have mandatory service charges on groups above a certain size.


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## Nomad (Jul 30, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> That is actually not true at all. Servers who are tipped are guaranteed to make at least the federal minimum wage when tips and wages are combined, If tips + wage is not enough to make the minimum wage the employer must make up the difference.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Clearly you have never worked in a restaurant.



Uberfunitis said:


> No I go out to eat at sit down restaurants often, perhaps too often most of the "servers" don't really know what is on the menu, unless you go to a high end restaurant the most you can hope for is that they bring your food out hot and can manage to swing by and refill your drink before you run out, and they fail at that about half the time. The only thing that they are good at most of the time is bringing the check.
> 
> I have had far better service at fast food restaurants like Chic-fil-a


This is probably due to your tipping habits. The vets see you and send over the trainee.

Also, Chick-Fil-A can't very well be compared to other fast food places as they treat their employees very well with above-minimum-wage pay, full-time work, promoting internally, and benefits like health coverage and scholarships.

Uber could learn a lot from Chick-Fil-A's business model... or really from ANY business model. Seriously Uber... just pick a real business model and follow it.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> So in other words you're just a POS.


LOL! nice one D!


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

brianboru said:


> Wrong again. A number of restaurants have implemented a mandatory service charge on all orders and even a larger number have mandatory service charges on groups above a certain size.


Even those are not really mandatory, if you talk with management they will be taken off just have to tell them that the service was not good.



Nomad said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Clearly you have never worked in a restaurant.
> 
> This is probably due to your tipping habits. The vets see you and send over the trainee.


Actually I have worked in a restaurant for a number of years, that is the law in the US.

I actually do tip at places I go to more than once, nothing great 20% but not low either, so no I just get your average server who hates his or her job and could give a rats ass about customer service because they know they get a tip if they do a good job or not and their job is not in danger as long as they stay under the radar.


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## Fishchris (Aug 31, 2016)

Just Another Uber Drive said:


> And infinitely better smelling no doubt.


On the contrary, pizza delivery will make your car smell like you left a pizza rotting under your seat for a month ! Or should I say, like a rotten food dumpster, in a matter of a month or so. Used to be embarrassed to give friends a ride in my stinky pizza car.

On the other hand, you will definitely make WAAAY more tips ! Sometimes twice what your actual pay is ! I did it for years, and I got really spoiled always having $$$ in my wallet. Starting to get a little bit of that back with the tip pages on my tablet screen show, but I doubt it will ever be as good as pizza delivery ! $100+ days were really common.... and once in a while, even $200+ ! And all while putting "half" the miles on my car, as with Uber


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Even those are not really mandatory, if you talk with management they will be taken off just have to tell them that the service was not good.


So are you saying you lie to weasel out of the service charge?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

brianboru said:


> So are you saying you lie to weasel out of the service charge?


I have yet to find perfect service but a handful of times usually I can legitimately find faults.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> I have yet to find perfect service but a handful of times usually I can legitimately find faults.


I think you are lying about this. I do not believe you have ever weaseled out of a mandatory service charge.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

brianboru said:


> I think you are lying about this. I do not believe you have ever weaseled out of a mandatory service charge.


think what you wish, but go and talk to management when you are not satisfied with service or some other aspect of your dining experience and see for yourself. I have never been forced to pay it if I contested it due to bad service.

From Wikipedia.

Slightly less authoritative sources are appellate court decisions, with the U.S. Supreme Court at the top. Appellate courts regard mandatory gratuities as income for servers rather than a tip, thus affecting taxation. However, court cases have yet to set a precedent that failing to pay "mandatory gratuity" is illegal. [8]

Restaurant customers who pay the food portion of their bill but not the mandatory gratuity have at times been arrested, charges are generally dropped.


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## Nomad (Jul 30, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> that is the law in the US.


No such thing in most restaurants. There have even been cases where a server wins back the money a restaurant made them pay for a dine-and-dash customer's meal (very illegal) and yet this scenario has happened a million times before then and and a million times since. Just ask the illegal alien washing dishes. Most restaurants are struggling to keep their heads above water and will cut any corners they can, which includes taking advantage of their own workforce who likely can't afford a lawyer or don't have the time to spend drawing out a legal battle. Hmmm... that sounds familiar. 



Uberfunitis said:


> they know they get a tip if they do a good job or not and their job is not in danger as long as they stay under the radar.


I have worked in hospitality for over 10 years and have worked with a handful of miserable people who do not care about customer service. They do not last longer than a month (with one exception of an owner's daughter).

I have *NEVER* worked with anyone that was under the impression that they would get a tip regardless of their service (or lack thereof).



Uberfunitis said:


> I have yet to find perfect service but a handful of times usually I can legitimately find faults.


It seems to me that not only do you have unrealistic expectations of the service industry but that you actively look for some fault, any fault to justify your point of view.

Clearly laying out points of why underpaid hospitality workers who provide above-average service deserve tips isn't going to change your opinion that all underpaid hospitality workers provide below-average service because "they know they get a tip if they do a good job or not." That is, however, an excellent point on why tipping is a better motivator of service than an across-the-board hourly wage because in the reality that we all live in, better service means better tips and more money than the miserable worker next to you. A flat wage means you get paid the same as the miserable worker, so why not be miserable, too?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Nomad said:


> No such thing in most restaurants. There have even been cases where a server wins back the money a restaurant made them pay for a dine-and-dash customer's meal (very illegal) and yet this scenario has happened a million times before then and and a million times since. Just ask the illegal alien washing dishes. Most restaurants are struggling to keep their heads above water and will cut any corners they can, which includes taking advantage of their own workforce who likely can't afford a lawyer or don't have the time to spend drawing out a legal battle. Hmmm... that sounds familiar.
> 
> I have worked in hospitality for over 10 years and have worked with a handful of miserable people who do not care about customer service. They do not last longer than a month (with one exception of an owner's daughter).
> 
> ...


I can not be responsible if the restaurant refuses to follow the law, that is between the government, the restaurant, and the employee. If as you are saying that many do not follow the law as it is than why would I even think that they would follow it and give any tip that I potentially provide to the employee threw the credit card transaction, and not simply take for their own benefit a portion of the tip. Is that not also the law that the tip must go to the employee why would they follow one law but not the other?

The problem with service is that most people honestly believe that they are providing good service even when they are not. When a person does not tip for bad service the server will more than likely not believe that it was their bad service that led to such action just a cheap SOB stiffing them. Even if you outline exactly where the service was lacking the server especially the millennial servers of today will become defensive and argumentative, because they have become accustomed to participation trophies etc.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Just because an option is there that allows one to tip does not mean that a tip is required or expected in any way. Yes there should have been an option in the app that allowed for tipping all along but it will have little effect on tips now that it is there.


They don't even see the tip option unless they rate you



Uberfunitis said:


> And that is one of the reasons that Uber drivers do not get tips, they have no leverage to get them.
> 
> I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.


That's because you are a jackass. Your family is embarrassed by you.



Uberfunitis said:


> think what you wish, but go and talk to management when you are not satisfied with service or some other aspect of your dining experience and see for yourself. I have never been forced to pay it if I contested it due to bad service.
> 
> From Wikipedia.
> 
> ...


Tips are taxed whether mandatory or voluntary. Waitresses are taxes a minimum of 8% of sales whether they receive them or not



Uberfunitis said:


> I can not be responsible if the restaurant refuses to follow the law, that is between the government, the restaurant, and the employee. If as you are saying that many do not follow the law as it is than why would I even think that they would follow it and give any tip that I potentially provide to the employee threw the credit card transaction, and not simply take for their own benefit a portion of the tip. Is that not also the law that the tip must go to the employee why would they follow one law but not the other?
> 
> The problem with service is that most people honestly believe that they are providing good service even when they are not. When a person does not tip for bad service the server will more than likely not believe that it was their bad service that led to such action just a cheap SOB stiffing them. Even if you outline exactly where the service was lacking the server especially the millennial servers of today will become defensive and argumentative, because they have become accustomed to participation trophies etc.


In your case, however, it is because you are a cheap SOB.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> The problem with service is that most people honestly believe that they are providing good service even when they are not. When a person does not tip for bad service the server will more than likely not believe that it was their bad service that led to such action just a cheap SOB stiffing them.


And in your case they would be absolutely correct.



Uberfunitis said:


> I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.


What a shameless hypocrite.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

Holy trollin' shills Batman, people like that actually existed?

Either that or this guy suffers from a serious case of the millennials.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Rat said:


> Tips are taxed whether mandatory or voluntary. Waitresses are taxes a minimum of 8% of sales whether they receive them or not


You are referring to allocated tips and you are incorrect. If you keep good records that show exactly what you received in tips the IRS allows you to pay taxes on only the tips you actually received.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

DRider85 said:


> He says Uber is all about the cashless experience. No hassles, get in and get out of the car. He obviously doesn't follow the news or know anything about the CEO getting voted out.
> .
> 
> And who knows. Maybe people will be upset when they find out that their is a tip option now. Because they were told that Tips weren't expected. They were told that tips were included. Some people may now discover the real truth, that all along they were either being lied to or were misinformed. All of this could have been avoided if Uber didn't go down this road in the first place.
> .


its going 2 b tough for uber to change the "no tipping"policy to "tips now expected".

this is more $$ out of the passengers' pockets, they certainly realize it.

if Uber wants 2 do it, they really have a task. after all, there is competition.

a big slash in fares is probably in order


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> its going 2 b tough for uber to change the "no tipping"policy to "tips now expected".
> 
> this is more $$ out of the passengers' pockets, they certainly realize it.
> 
> ...


I have not seen any indication that Uber intends to change to a "tips now expected" policy.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> No I go out to eat at sit down restaurants often, perhaps too often most of the "servers" don't really know what is on the menu, unless you go to a high end restaurant the most you can hope for is that they bring your food out hot and can manage to swing by and refill your drink before you run out, and they fail at that about half the time. The only thing that they are good at most of the time is bringing the check.
> 
> I have had far better service at fast food restaurants like Chic-fil-a


Chic-fil-a has sit down restaurants with servers. I believe their original store was like that, it's called Dwarf House. The original is here in Atlanta, GA (Hapeville). There's a replica, at least one that I know of, in Duluth GA which is near my office.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> I have not seen any indication that Uber intends to change to a "tips now expected" policy.


that might really hurt them in recruiting partners if they don't.

however, it could hurt them w the passengers if they don't handle it well


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> that might really hurt them in recruiting partners if they don't.
> 
> however, it could hurt them w the passengers if they don't handle it well


It may at some point but at this point there seems like there are no shortage of people lining up to both drive and ride with uber.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> It may at some point but at this point there seems like there are no shortage of people lining up to both drive and ride with uber.


true enough, however, fads like Uber can collapse overnight, just like beany babies did several years ago.

4 years ago, the overwhelming majority of current uber partners would have not been caught dead behind the wheel of a cab, much less think it was a good idea to play taxi in their private automobile for bargain basement rates.

über made its high tech and cutting edge, but sooner rather than later, almost everyone will think that partnering for uber is for the birds unless changes are made


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## brendon292 (Aug 2, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> When a driver earns $3.75 for 30 min of work and no tip, its ridiculous.


Exactly! I tip drivers because I know from first hand experience how little they earn. I am not okay with exploiting people just so that I can pay as little as possible. Unfortunately, there are mouth breathing scumbags like Uberfunitis that _are _okay with it.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DRider85 said:


> He says Uber is all about the cashless experience. No hassles, get in and get out of the car. He obviously doesn't follow the news or know anything about the CEO getting voted out.
> 
> Here is my gripe with Uber and how they were running things. I feel that they built their reputation built on a lie. Or at least it comes across that way. The idea is that you get in and out of the car and you don't need to tip because it's an app and you pay what you pay. And Travis took this too far. Have seen videos of him saying that a tip is included.
> 
> ...


So your friend's a dick?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Uberfunitis said:


> That is actually not true at all. Servers who are tipped are guaranteed to make at least the federal minimum wage when tips and wages are combined, If tips + wage is not enough to make the minimum wage the employer must make up the difference.


If servers report that they are not making minimum wage the restaurant manager or owner will tell them they must not be doing a good job since they're making so little in tips. It very well may be a complete lie and business is simply slow or the area is not one where servers get many tips. They may tell EVERY server that, individually. They'll tell them they need to work harder or they may be replaced.

Most will be afraid of losing their jobs and will start declaring they made more in tips.

Besides, it's minimum wage AFTER expenses. That means after the 53 cents or so a mile tax deduction...many drivers are LOSING money using that metric. MANY more are not making minimum wage or even close to it after mileage.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Besides, it's minimum wage AFTER expenses. That means after the 53 cents or so a mile tax deduction...many drivers are LOSING money using that metric. MANY more are not making minimum wage or even close to it after mileage.


It is a good thing that we are not employees and are instead IC and there are no minimum wage standards for uber drivers to worry about. I am confident that if we were considered employees there would not be as much opportunity for people to earn money. Sure the small number retained may make more than they currently are but the vast majority would be left with no income at all.

pertaining to your comment about servers, I would expect that completely. Management would not be doing their job if they were not challenging their employees to work harder and earn more so that they have to pay less. Nobody can be held accountable except the employee if they lie about their earnings for whatever reason.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> Sure the small number retained may make more than they currently are but the vast majority would be left with no income at all.
> .


the uber fad is coming to the end sooner rather than later.

people will soon realize there is not so much $$ in Uber and will start selling avon or tupperware for a side hustle or something else


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> You are referring to allocated tips and you are incorrect. If you keep good records that show exactly what you received in tips the IRS allows you to pay taxes on only the tips you actually received.


My understanding was the IRS expects a minimum of 8% of sales


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Rat said:


> My understanding was the IRS expects a minimum of 8% of sales


Directly from the IRS:

Allocated tips are amounts your employer assigned to you in addition to the tips you reported. Your employer is required to allocate tips only if:


You worked in a large food or beverage establishment (restaurant, cocktail lounge, or similar business),
You received any tips directly from customers, and
The amount of tips you reported to your employer was less than your share of 8% (or a lower rate approved by the IRS, if your employer requested it) of food and drink sales. 
Generally, you must report the full amount contained in box 8 of your Form W-2. *However, you don't report the entire allocated tip amount on your income tax return if you can prove with adequate records that the amount of tips you actually received was less than the allocated amount*. You should keep a daily record of all tips you receive from customers and from other employees who tip out to you and the amounts you tip out to other employees. If you don't have records or if you have inadequate records, you must report the full amount in box 8 as income on your income tax return.


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## Yulli Yung (Jul 4, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> Just because an option is there that allows one to tip does not mean that a tip is required or expected in any way. Yes there should have been an option in the app that allowed for tipping all along but it will have little effect on tips now that it is there.


Not So!


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Directly from the IRS:
> 
> Allocated tips are amounts your employer assigned to you in addition to the tips you reported. Your employer is required to allocate tips only if:
> 
> ...


So 8% unless you can prove otherwise? Might be hard to prove you didn't get that much. Records that you have sole control over my not be considered proof.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Rat said:


> So 8% unless you can prove otherwise? Might be hard to prove you didn't get that much. Records that you have sole control over my not be considered proof.


Where did you see that? You have your records as indicated above, additionally you have turned into the establishment your daily tip totals, it would not be hard to spot check a few should they want to investigate and make sure that the amounts match.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Where did you see that? You have your records as indicated above, additionally you have turned into the establishment your daily tip totals, it would not be hard to spot check a few should they want to investigate and make sure that the amounts match.


Third bullet point.
If I only turn in 1/4 of my cash tips to the employer and the same to the IRS, the amounts will match. Not proof of actual amount received, only what wait staff wanted to report


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Rat said:


> Third bullet point.
> If I only turn in 1/4 of my cash tips to the employer and the same to the IRS, the amounts will match. Not proof of actual amount received, only what wait staff wanted to report


Were did you see that self maintained records that you have sole control over may not be considered proof?


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Were did you see that self maintained records that you have sole control over may not be considered proof?


I didn't see it anywhere, but I didn't see it anywhere that they would be accepted. Note the word "may"


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Rat said:


> I didn't see it anywhere, but I didn't see it anywhere that they would be accepted. Note the word "may"


You should keep a daily record of all tips you receive from customers and from other employees who tip out to you and the amounts you tip out to other employees. If you don't have records or if you have inadequate records, you must report the full amount in box 8 as income on your income tax return.

That is what they recommended, I would imagine that it would meet their needs.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Rat said:


> So 8% unless you can prove otherwise? Might be hard to prove you didn't get that much. Records that you have sole control over my not be considered proof.


doesn't apply to uber- uber partners aren't employees.

besides, all of the actual tips are on app


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> doesn't apply to uber- uber partners aren't employees.
> 
> besides, all of the actual tips are on app


None of my tips have been on app. Can't be done here yet. Tips are still income, employee or not. Unless you mean the 8% of sales part, then no, doesn't apply.


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## Hoodat (Apr 29, 2016)

Nomad said:


> This is the main reason a lot of us don't trust the 180 days email. Every time Uber has been judged to be unethical, they've turned it around to say that they will change (and they usually make it sound like it was their idea to change). Meanwhile, they implement a different method of being unethical somewhere else (i.e. upfront pricing).
> 
> You know those people that are in abusive relationships but won't leave and you wonder how they could be so blind to the fact that they don't have to put up with black eyes and emotional abuse? Whelp, that's us... only we're relying on this relationship to eat


I think you hit the nail with the hammer on that statement .


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> And that is one of the reasons that Uber drivers do not get tips, they have no leverage to get them.
> 
> I don't tip at restaurants I don't plan to visit again either.


You sound like an absolute loser.

Don't you have any "friends" to annoy instead of making nonsensical comments on this forum?

Ugh.

No need to respond to this comment, you're on my Ignore list.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Julescase said:


> You sound like an absolute loser.
> 
> Don't you have any "friends" to annoy instead of making nonsensical comments on this forum?
> 
> ...


I have many friends, some people can multitask


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