# I called a recommended insurance broker today



## Kaz

I explained to him my situation and what UBER (and LYFT) are... he says there are alot of drivers seeking commercial policies for something similar to 'livery' but using our own vehicles. He says I will need $1 mil liability but I told him, anything is better than what I have (Nothing, really). He said to give him some time and he is going to run some info for me. He says there is a local company that is offering policies to UBER and LYFT drivers. I told him what I could afford a month and still make some profit and he thinks it's doable. I made it clear to him this is both a personal and commercial policy and I use my car for taxi-ing on the weekends only. I will drop my carrier once I get new protection. I will post when I know more on cost, limits, etc. For some reason I am skeptical but he says not to be and there is protection for people like me. So we shall see. I am in Phoenix.


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## xRacer

Can't wait to hear from you


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## fargonaz

Ditto! Thanks for helping.


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## SCdave

Would it be helpful if you asked him if he could take a look at the Uber Insurance Policy and let you (us) know what the gaps are?


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## IbedrivinUX

SCdave said:


> Would it be helpful if you asked him if he could take a look at the Uber Insurance Policy and let you (us) know what the gaps are?


I don't think there are any gaps, It is pretty simple, Your own insurance cover up to the moment that the Uber app. sends you a request and you push accept to that ride, Then Uber picks up at that very second, If you don't think so go into the waybill information and see when it started, Then Uber covers till the driver slides the app to Stop the ride or end of trip, Then the personal insurance starts up again and you just wash and repeat! Till the app. gives you another request your own insurance is covering you, If you have a rider on board or are in route to pick up a rider Uber is covering the insurance, If it happens then Uber will ask you to see what your insurance will cover but if it is in their time frame of coverage I would not even bother with my insurance. Now this is just the way I am reading it.


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## SCdave

IbedrivinUX said:


> I don't think there are any gaps, It is pretty simple, Your own insurance cover up to the moment that the Uber app. sends you a request and you push accept to that ride, Then Uber picks up at that very second, If you don't think so go into the waybill information and see when it started, Then Uber covers till the driver slides the app to Stop the ride or end of trip, Then the personal insurance starts up again and you just wash and repeat! Till the app. gives you another request your own insurance is covering you, If you have a rider on board or are in route to pick up a rider Uber is covering the insurance, If it happens then Uber will ask you to see what your insurance will cover but if it is in their time frame of coverage I would not even bother with my insurance. Now this is just the way I am reading it.


Pls don't take this the wrong way, but I would like to hear from as many Insurance Professionals as I can about the Uber/TNC Insurance. This is a very important area of driving that is still not clear and no one really understands completely.

And yes, I've read everything Uber has email'd us, put up on our Partner Dashboards under FAQs and their blogs, and I've read as much as I possibly could on our forum and the internet. Still, don't really feel we know enough facts.

The more you ask questions the more you understand. Especially with Insurance. It is never straight forward and never easy to understand. I'm somewhat halfway educated and don't even know all of the really important questions to ask that an Insurance Professional would.


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## scrurbscrud

IbedrivinUX said:


> I don't think there are any gaps, It is pretty simple, Your own insurance cover up to the moment that the Uber app. sends you a request and you push accept to that ride, Then Uber picks up at that very second, If you don't think so go into the waybill information and see when it started, Then Uber covers till the driver slides the app to Stop the ride or end of trip, *Then the personal insurance starts up again* and you just wash and repeat! Till the app. gives you another request your own insurance is covering you, If you have a rider on board or are in route to pick up a rider Uber is covering the insurance, If it happens then Uber will ask you to see what your insurance will cover but if it is in their time frame of coverage I would not even bother with my insurance. Now this is just the way I am reading it.


That's just another LIE perpetrated, publicly no less, by Uber.

*No personal auto insurance has 'on and off' provisions for RIDE SHARE.*


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## scrurbscrud

Kaz said:


> I explained to him my situation and what UBER (and LYFT) are... he says there are alot of drivers seeking commercial policies for something similar to 'livery' but using our own vehicles. He says I will need $1 mil liability but I told him, anything is better than what I have (Nothing, really). He said to give him some time and he is going to run some info for me. He says there is a local company that is offering policies to UBER and LYFT drivers. I told him what I could afford a month and still make some profit and he thinks it's doable. I made it clear to him this is both a personal and commercial policy and I use my car for taxi-ing on the weekends only. I will drop my carrier once I get new protection. I will post when I know more on cost, limits, etc. For some reason I am skeptical but he says not to be and there is protection for people like me. So we shall see. I am in Phoenix.


Most good personal auto insurance agents will either have their mainline carrier ship you to a specialty carrier for this type of work (my case) OR they will refer you to a good commercial insurance broker to obtain suitable coverage.

In the end my commercial insurance ended up to be about half of what a full blown livery policy COULD have cost me. Some specialty insurance carriers are catching on to piggybacking to the ride share companies insurance and using that to bring the rates down. AND a great side benefit is having our vehicles covered in case of an accident by our own insurance companies and not be left hanging in the wind by ride shares commercial policies for our vehicles.

It's also quite comforting to know that at least one line of defense is established in our behalves rather than having to lie to our personal auto insurance carriers.


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## SCdave

scrurbscrud said:


> Most good personal auto insurance agents will either have their mainline carrier ship you to a specialty carrier for this type of work (my case) OR they will refer you to a good commercial insurance broker to obtain suitable coverage.
> 
> In the end my commercial insurance ended up to be about half of what a full blown livery policy COULD have cost me. Some specialty insurance carriers are catching on to piggybacking to the ride share companies insurance and using that to bring the rates down. AND a great side benefit is having our vehicles covered in case of an accident by our own insurance companies and not be left hanging in the wind by ride shares commercial policies for our vehicles.
> 
> It's also quite comforting to know that at least one line of defense is established in our behalves rather than having to lie to our personal auto insurance carriers.


Scrurbscrud, would it be too much to ask your Insurance Company (or whomever their Commercial Underwriter is) to go over the Uber Commercial Insurance and let us know how the additional commercial policy they provide (like they have for you or in general) 1) Covers any Uber Provided Insurance/Driver Private Insurance Gaps (and what those gaps are), 2) and just what additional coverage is provided with the commercial insurance.

And before anyone says, "Well, I don't need that additional Insurance". That is the whole point of Insurance, it is an individual decision to cover specific risks that all of us place a value on differently. What one person "doesn't need", another person "must have".


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## Orlando_Driver

I want to hear from somebody that wrecked thier car with riders. Did Uber insurance cover it ?


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## Kaz

Well the saga begins. No return call from the broker guy despite a voice mail message today, so I called another company and spoke to a grouchy older woman who didn't seem the least bit interested in my situation-never heard of UBER, so I ended the call. She did say Progressive is who they use for their commericial policies but I would feel a bit better speaking to someone who doesn't represent the Big Guys. And another company, USAA, does offer commercial coverage with another company which may be a better deal with the USAA discounts but I don't want my info floating around out there. I do qualify for USAA but I do not have a policy with them. I wish this broker guy would fu**** call me back.


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## scrurbscrud

SCdave said:


> Scrurbscrud, would it be too much to ask your Insurance Company (or whomever their Commercial Underwriter is) to go over the Uber Commercial Insurance and let us know how the additional commercial policy they provide (like they have for you or in general) 1) Covers any Uber Provided Insurance/Driver Private Insurance Gaps (and what those gaps are), 2) and just what additional coverage is provided with the commercial insurance.
> 
> And before anyone says, "Well, I don't need that additional Insurance". That is the whole point of Insurance, it is an individual decision to cover specific risks that all of us place a value on differently. What one person "doesn't need", another person "must have".


The only 'reason' I obtained a commercial/personal livery policy is because my personal auto insurance carrier SAID flat out that if I did ride share they would cancel my policy. That did it for me. My policy is a PRIMARY policy that covers 'me and my shit' so I don't give a damn about what Uber's policy does or does not do. If 'my' insurance company needs more money THEY can work it out with UBER or LYFT.

I have assets and value my future financial life. Sure as hell ain't gonna let Uber/Lyft LIES about what my 'personal auto insurance' carrier sez *when I got the real story directly from my own personal auto insurance carrier.* My insurance company didn't give a shit if Uber or Lyft calls themselves TNC or RIDE SHARE. *To my insurance company it's both COMMERCIAL activity and LIVERY. Both of these activities are not insured by personal auto insurance AND such activity VOIDS the policy.*

Screw Uber. I'm taking care of my own ass, even if it costs me a few more bucks a month. It's well worth it to ME.

If any UberX driver wants to play Russian roulette on this matter, it's their own ass in a sling if something happens. I can also say that driving full time exposes you to many potential accident situations, none necessarily being 'my' fault either. It's just damn dangerous out there driving around in the middle of the night surrounded by drunk drivers with a car full of drunks yourself. Even in rush hour or heavy traffic times it's also dangerous. An accident is just a matter of time for every driver, whether it's 'our fault' or not. More than likely it will NOT be a drivers fault.


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## scrurbscrud

Kaz said:


> Well the saga begins. No return call from the broker guy despite a voice mail message today, so I called another company and spoke to a grouchy older woman who didn't seem the least bit interested in my situation-never heard of UBER, so I ended the call. She did say Progressive is who they use for their commericial policies but I would feel a bit better speaking to someone who doesn't represent the Big Guys. And another company, USAA, does offer commercial coverage with another company which may be a better deal with the USAA discounts but I don't want my info floating around out there. I do qualify for USAA but I do not have a policy with them. I wish this broker guy would fu**** call me back.


It took me several days of shopping with various commercial brokers to find what worked for me and then it took another 3 or 4 days to clear the carriers system.


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## IbedrivinUX

Scrurbs Who is this company? I'm not trying to argue with you! I want the same coverage and so does everyone else.


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## scrurbscrud

IbedrivinUX said:


> Scrurbs Who is this company? I'm not trying to argue with you! I want the same coverage and so does everyone else.


Then hunt it down fools. Every state is different. Every insurance shopper has different needs (or they are just risk stupid!)

I ain't doing anyone's insurance homework for them. I had to 'work' to find what "I" needed. So do you ALL. And I don't want to disclose the details because it's personal information that I don't want in the public domain for privacy/honest posting reasons. I'm probably only 1 in how many hundred thousands of drivers who even have commercial coverage. How easy is that to track down on Uber/Lyfts end?

I sure as hell don't need to cut off my driving nose to spite my face. I can also afford to spend a little extra on insurance because I have a NICE XL vehicle that I'm not about to sacrifice to an uncovered accident.


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## Sydney Uber

scrurbscrud said:


> It took me several days of shopping with various commercial brokers to find what worked for me and then it took another 3 or 4 days to clear the carriers system.


Well Scrurbscrud!

Everyone is liking what you are saying. Waiting for the the moment you reveal your insurance company.

Why not offer your agent a heap more clients for $100 finders fee then PM everyone with a "promo code" they need to use to get the right cover and send you a cheque.

Otherwise we are going to start thinking you are full of shit.

Just my 2 cents worth


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## IbedrivinUX

I'm going to pull the BS Flag on this one! You are full of it, You no more have coverage then Obama is running for another term, Go ahead and go to ALL of my post and say something to discredit me, I don't care, If you had commercial coverage you would gladly save all of our souls and any accident ridden lot like us. You are full of it. End of Rant, I'm sorry call me names whatever you want to but I'm not believing this! Sorry nope, I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night!


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## scrurbscrud

Sydney Uber said:


> Well Scrurbscrud!
> 
> Everyone is liking what you are saying. Waiting for the the moment you reveal your insurance company.
> 
> Why not offer your agent a heap more clients for $100 finders fee then PM everyone with a "promo code" they need to use to get the right cover and send you a cheque.
> 
> Otherwise we are going to start thinking you are full of shit.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth


My agent only services a small area in my home state in a big city. It wouldn't do the agent a damn bit of good. My carrier is a national carrier that is used by commercial agents all over the country, so it's not hidden information for any good broker, though "I" did my own homework in advance of my calls and directed 'my' agent to SHOP for me. My choice turned out to be the best price available. The agent just took care of the middle man position.

I really don't care if drivers are smart enough to figure it out. It will serve to justly thin the driving herd when MOST states here make it mandatory to put UBER/LYFT as named additional insureds on personal insurance policies. It's coming.

And if not they can just ride bareback for all I care and pay the price when their own itty bitty titties are caught in the accident wringers.

*If anyone says that coverage isn't available, they are full of shit and haven't bothered to SHOP. That's all. 
*
Nobody shopped for ME. Nor would I expect that any self respecting independent contractor needs hand holding by someone else to run their own business.


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## scrurbscrud

IbedrivinUX said:


> I'm going to pull the BS Flag on this one! You are full of it, You no more have coverage then Obama is running for another term, Go ahead and go to ALL of my post and say something to discredit me, I don't care, If you had commercial coverage you would gladly save all of our souls and any accident ridden lot like us. You are full of it. End of Rant, I'm sorry call me names whatever you want to but I'm not believing this! Sorry nope, I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night!


*And you can kiss my insured ass.* I really don't care if you ain't intelligent enuf to figure it out for yourself.


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## SCdave

scrurbscrud said:


> The only 'reason' I obtained a commercial/personal livery policy is because my personal auto insurance carrier SAID flat out that if I did ride share they would cancel my policy. That did it for me. My policy is a PRIMARY policy that covers 'me and my shit' so I don't give a damn about what Uber's policy does or does not do. If 'my' insurance company needs more money THEY can work it out with UBER or LYFT.
> 
> I have assets and value my future financial life. Sure as hell ain't gonna let Uber/Lyft LIES about what my 'personal auto insurance' carrier sez *when I got the real story directly from my own personal auto insurance carrier.* My insurance company didn't give a shit if Uber or Lyft calls themselves TNC or RIDE SHARE. *To my insurance company it's both COMMERCIAL activity and LIVERY. Both of these activities are not insured by personal auto insurance AND such activity VOIDS the policy.*
> 
> Screw Uber. I'm taking care of my own ass, even if it costs me a few more bucks a month. It's well worth it to ME.
> 
> If any UberX driver wants to play Russian roulette on this matter, it's their own ass in a sling if something happens. I can also say that driving full time exposes you to many potential accident situations, none necessarily being 'my' fault either. It's just damn dangerous out there driving around in the middle of the night surrounded by drunk drivers with a car full of drunks yourself. Even in rush hour or heavy traffic times it's also dangerous. An accident is just a matter of time for every driver, whether it's 'our fault' or not. More than likely it will NOT be a drivers fault.


I believe you drive full time. I'm guessing that you drive UberXL and Lyft since you site both. But I'm still confused if you use your Vehicle for personal use also like most of us driving TNCs (excluding UberBlack and UberSUV). If so, doesn't your Commercial Insurance not cover a vehicle that also is used for private use?


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## IbedrivinUX

Ba Ba Ha That doesn't hurt me, I have called or email over a dozen companies and independent agents in my area and the agents represent several different companies all to hear "I don't think we have anyone that will cover that" Go ahead be selfish and everyone else can say the same thing you did! That makes this place much more friendly! 
Thanks I appreciate your willingness to help others like yourself! remember what goes around comes back to bite you in your *insured ass*!


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## scrurbscrud

SCdave said:


> I believe you drive full time. I'm guessing that you drive UberXL and Lyft since you site both. But I'm still confused if you use your Vehicle for personal use also like most of us driving TNCs (excluding UberBlack and UberSUV). If so, doesn't your Commercial Insurance not cover a vehicle that also is used for private use?


Technically I don't use my ride share vehicle for anything personal BUT there is a chance I might and wanted it insured for personal use IF I needed to do so.

My agent also told me that the national carrier I'm with won't consider part timers. So that may present a fairly large hurdle as well. I'm sure that a driver can LIE and say they are full time if they really want coverage. *They sure don't seem to have issues lying to their carriers now anyway.*


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## IbedrivinUX

SCdave said:


> I believe you drive full time. I'm guessing that you drive UberXL and Lyft since you site both. But I'm still confused if you use your Vehicle for personal use also like most of us driving TNCs (excluding UberBlack and UberSUV). If so, doesn't your Commercial Insurance not cover a vehicle that also is used for private use?


He isn't going to tell us that, he knows it all because he has done the homework but isn't going to share it with anyone he is just going to dangle the carrot in our faces, its OK I am doing my homework but unlike you and wanting to help the community of drivers, I will give out my information because that is just how I am.


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## scrurbscrud

IbedrivinUX said:


> Ba Ba Ha That doesn't hurt me, I have called or email over a dozen companies and independent agents in my area and the agents represent several different companies all to hear "I don't think we have anyone that will cover that" Go ahead be selfish and everyone else can say the same thing you did! That makes this place much more friendly!
> Thanks I appreciate your willingness to help others like yourself! remember what goes around comes back to bite you in your *insured ass*!


It just ain't my problem if YOU can't find what YOU need or are uninsurable. I got my own stuff to worry about.


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## IbedrivinUX

I know, Thanks for nothing A-hole! I hope you never need any help because everyone including your own mother will pass you by because she never taught you to help your fellow man, I'm finished with you and I am going to block you now. Good Bye.


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## scrurbscrud

IbedrivinUX said:


> I know, Thanks for nothing A-hole! I hope you never need any help because everyone including your own mother will pass you by because she never taught you to help your fellow man, I'm finished with you and I am going to block you now. Good Bye.


You can lead a horse to water...


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## SCdave

scrurbscrud said:


> Technically I don't use my ride share vehicle for anything personal BUT there is a chance I might and wanted it insured for personal use IF I needed to do so.
> 
> My agent also told me that the national carrier I'm with won't consider part timers. So that may present a fairly large hurdle as well. I'm sure that a driver can LIE and say they are full time if they really want coverage. *They sure don't seem to have issues lying to their carriers now anyway.*


Okay, so you have both Personal Insurance and Commercial Insurance on your Uber XL / TNC vehicle?


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## scrurbscrud

SCdave said:


> Okay, so you have both Personal Insurance and Commercial Insurance on your Uber XL / TNC vehicle?


Yep. That's what insurance brokers are for. To find potential insureds a product that suits them.


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## Sydney Uber

scrurbscrud said:


> You can lead a horse to water...


You're a tough cookie scrud!

As a child were you ever in the position of being the only kid at the Park with a football or baseball that others needed to borrow to have a game? Kids you knew and didn't know came up to beg you for the ball so 10-20 kids could share a game?

Back then you didn't give a stuff, in fact you probably loved the power it gave you for a short time. Loved the sadness and disappointment you could see on all the other kids faces.

Just a scenario that fitted in with your actions to the forum members here today.

I wonder if I'm close on any of it.


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## scrurbscrud

Sydney Uber said:


> You're a tough cookie scrud!
> 
> As a child were you ever in the position of being the only kid at the Park with a football or baseball that others needed to borrow to have a game? Kids you knew and didn't know came up to beg you for the ball so 10-20 kids could share a game?
> 
> Back then you didn't give a stuff, in fact you probably loved the power it gave you for a short time. Loved the sadness and disappointment you could see on all the other kids faces.
> 
> Just a scenario that fitted in with your actions to the forum members here today.
> 
> I wonder if I'm close on any of it.


Spin it how you please. Has nothing to do with the reality of someone who needs insurance shopping for same themselves.

Supposedly the drivers here are adults who should know how to obtain their own insurance. 
*
If they don't they shouldn't be driving imho.*


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## SCdave

SCdave said:


> Okay, so you have both Personal Insurance and Commercial Insurance on your Uber XL / TNC vehicle?


And the provider of the commercial insurance, understands that the vehicle insured also has Personal insurance coverage and besides being driven as a Livery Vehicle it will also be used for private use?


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## scrurbscrud

SCdave said:


> And the provider of the commercial insurance, understands that the vehicle insured also has Personal insurance coverage and besides being driven as a Livery Vehicle it will also be used for private use?


No. It's just one dual use policy. Commercial/Personal.


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## SCdave

scrurbscrud said:


> No. It's just one dual use policy. Commercial/Personal.


Okay thanks. I've never heard of a Hybrid policy before where the insurance carrier understands that the vehicle would be used for both commercial and private use. Only Commercial OR Private use. Even with the Driver having a TCP License / Being certified to drive livery service.

Thanks


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## scrurbscrud

SCdave said:


> Okay thanks. I've never heard of a Hybrid policy before where the insurance carrier understands that the vehicle would be used for both commercial and private use. Only Commercial OR Private use. Even with the Driver having a TCP License / Being certified to drive livery service.
> 
> Thanks


Drivers who want to hunt will be successful. Most are too broke to give a damn.


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## BobbyS

The Uber insurance is additional liability insurance above and beyond what the driver's insurance policy didn't cover; as a former Domino's Pizza Franchisee, we had the similar setup for our drivers. The drivers drove, should they get into an accident there insurance is the first line, if their insurance didn't cover the loss, then my hired and non owner policy would kick in. This insurance is EXTREMELY expensive.


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## chi1cabby

@scrurbscrud stop posting about insurance. You've been chewing everyone's head off about Insurance for the last month!
And now you still freaking rant about it in every thread but don't even have the damn comradery to even share the name of your insurance co!
#SMH!


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## ReviTULize

Kaz said:


> I do qualify for USAA but I do not have a policy with them.


I would highly recommend switching to USAA!! Homeowners, auto, retirement, everything...

Great company!!


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## Berliner

scrurbscrud said:


> No. It's just one dual use policy. Commercial/Personal.


Yeah, it´s like to be a little bit pregnant. Why do you don´t write the name of the ins.co here? Could be usefull for some guys.


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## drivernotfound

BobbyS said:


> The Uber insurance is additional liability insurance above and beyond what the driver's insurance policy didn't cover; as a former Domino's Pizza Franchisee, we had the similar setup for our drivers. The drivers drove, should they get into an accident there insurance is the first line, if their insurance didn't cover the loss, then my hired and non owner policy would kick in. This insurance is EXTREMELY expensive.


I would like to hear more about the comparison between Uber and Domino's pizza drivers (jokingly because Uber might make us deliver pizzas in the future who knows, but realistically because they are both "drive for profit" in the insurance company's mind.) Does it matter if the profit you're driving for is a pizza or a pax? How does Uber's insurance policy differ from that of average pizza drivers? Are the deductibles around the same for drivers?

Would my insurance company be a bit upset if I started driving for Dominos Pizza and didn't inform them? (Would they drop me or blacklist me as some people fear with Uber?)


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## Berliner

drivernotfound said:


> Does it matter if the profit you're driving for is a pizza or a pax?


It does matter. If you kill a pizza by accident it´s maybe a harm of $15. A broken neck is more expensive.


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## IbedrivinUX

Sydney Uber said:


> You're a tough cookie scrud!
> 
> As a child were you ever in the position of being the only kid at the Park with a football or baseball that others needed to borrow to have a game? Kids you knew and didn't know came up to beg you for the ball so 10-20 kids could share a game?
> 
> Back then you didn't give a stuff, in fact you probably loved the power it gave you for a short time. Loved the sadness and disappointment you could see on all the other kids faces.
> 
> Just a scenario that fitted in with your actions to the forum members here today.
> 
> I wonder if I'm close on any of it.


I am sure he was the bully, I won't see his response to this nor do I need to, I don't care, He is all you have said and more. Thank You for this, I really appreciate it. Uber On!


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## chi1cabby

Berliner said:


> It does matter. If you kill a pizza by accident it´s maybe a harm of $15. A broken neck is more expensive.


Thanx for posting that.
So many drivers don't seem to comprehend that a pizza ain't going to get a personal injury attorney to seek damages.


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## IbedrivinUX

chi1cabby said:


> @scrurbscrud stop posting about insurance. You've been chewing everyone's head off about Insurance for the last month!
> And now you still freaking rant about it in every thread but don't even have the damn comradery to even share the name of your insurance co!
> #SMH!


Thank You for this Post Chi1 you are going to need to define that big word in this, _*COM-RAD-ER-Y*_ he has no clue about that meaning or how to share, As my dad would have said had he still been alive in this situation, "Hooray for me and to hell with everyone else" I think this match scab pretty well, OK I'm finished now. Time to move on, But if anyone comes up with anything Insurance wise for the Commercial side or Livery as they call it here in Stockholm or wherever I am let me know!


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## scrurbscrud

Berliner said:


> Yeah, it´s like to be a little bit pregnant. Why do you don´t write the name of the ins.co here? Could be usefull for some guys.


If any of them gave a rats ass they'd already have it covered.


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## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> @scrurbscrud stop posting about insurance. You've been chewing everyone's head off about Insurance for the last month!
> And now you still freaking rant about it in every thread but don't even have the damn comradery to even share the name of your insurance co!
> #SMH!


OK for you to beat your drum though huh? Maybe you don't give a damn?


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## chi1cabby

scrurbscrud said:


> OK for you to beat your drum though huh? Maybe you don't give a damn?


Whatever man!
You shouted and ranted!
But wouldn't name the Insr Co!


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## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> Whatever man!
> You shouted and ranted!
> But wouldn't name the Insr Co!


It a general matter of discussion. What my personal business insurance company is is entirely irrelevant.

And why should just issues YOU think are important take the forefront? We've had this discussion before. *ANY other issue pales in comparison to this one.*

Nearly daily new drivers arrive and say WHAT? You mean UBER lied to us?

Uh, yeah.

Let's make a habit of clearing LIES the deck of cards stacked against drivers, huh?

We all know Wall Street business people are crooks too, but this particular lie is 'personally damaging to every driver and potential driver.'


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## Sean O'Gorman

Berliner said:


> It does matter. If you kill a pizza by accident it´s maybe a harm of $15. A broken neck is more expensive.


Do you know who typically makes claims in accidents? Drivers and passengers in other cars. Pizza delivery isn't much less of a risk than taxi/livery/Uber driver.


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## SCdave

Close the thread. It was somewhat helpful to start with. Could have gone in a good direction. But now meaningless.


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## chi1cabby

You have been writing hundreds of very long posts on insurance. 
But you won't Type in The Name of your Damn Insurance Company!

End of Discussion, as far as I'm concerned.


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## chi1cabby

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Do you know who typically makes claims in accidents? Drivers and passengers in other cars. Pizza delivery isn't much less of a risk than taxi/livery/Uber driver.


Oh really!
Give me a single example of an injured deep dish pizza suing the delivery driver. Your posts on insurance are just trying to deflect from the serious lack of adequate insurance for Drivers doing TNC.


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## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> You have been writing hundreds of very long posts on insurance.
> But you won't Type in The Name of your Damn Insurance Company!
> 
> End of Discussion, as far as I'm concerned.


*It's just gonna be tough crap on my personal insurance company. I'm not about to red flag myself in public.*

Since you're the so called expert maybe YOU can provide the name of your insurance company and details?

Or any number of licensed insurance professionals in the drivers home states can FULLY inform them, individually, according to their own needs.


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## Piotrowski

I too owned a restaurant and spent a lot of money on Insurance but I never included my vehicles. I talked to agents (I had a lot of them as customers) about it and the bottom line was that its a lot of expense for very little protection, as there was never a time when I was "off the clock". This puts me in the same category of a hundred other professional that drive in ways related to their business, and do so on personal insurance. Now if I were having employees drive, like with dominoes, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, and as the previous posted said, it's extremely expensive (as I'm sure Uber's insurance is for them) The bottom line to me is this, if you're doing this full time, I would say get your own insurance. That way you can do it right and get your own clients too (you're an idiot if you don't) Part timers like me, I feel without a doubt that I am sufficiently covered (by sufficiently, I mean within reason, as you can never be insured against all risks under any circumstances as zero risk is impossible in life) .

Sc whatever your name is. I don't know what your game is and I won't repeat what has already been said.


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## chi1cabby

scrurbscrud said:


> Since you're the so called expert maybe YOU can provide the name of your insurance company and details?


I didn't call myself any kind of expert. The only thing I've said is that I've followed Uber related developments closely.
Dude I drive a cab. So the cab has 24/7 full livery insurance. It costs 12k/yr in Chicago.


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## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> I didn't call myself any kind of expert. The only thing I've said is that I've followed Uber related developments closely.
> Dude I drive a cab. So the cab has 24/7 full livery insurance. It costs 12k/yr in Chicago.


It's beneficial here to speak factually about where we have our asses left hanging in the wind. Drivers are coming here daily and don't have a clue.

WHY?

Because Uber LIES.

Who then is going to speak truthfully? It's a good thing to know the TRUTH.


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## Piotrowski

chi1cabby said:


> I didn't call myself any kind of expert. The only thing I've said is that I've followed Uber related developments closely.
> Dude I drive a cab. So the cab has 24/7 full livery insurance. It costs 12k/yr in Chicago.


Can you put that 12k into perspective? What does regular car insurance cost there? What do you think drives it up that much? I mean compared to other "on the road" types of insurance. I know a lot of guys that drive over 100k miles a year in their trucks and they don't pay anything close to that. You can't tell me their liability is that much lower. The wrongful deaths that they can get hit with cost those ins. co. a whole lot of $$$$


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## Sean O'Gorman

chi1cabby said:


> Oh really!
> Give me a single example of an injured deep dish pizza suing the delivery driver. Your posts on insurance are just trying to deflect from the serious lack of adequate insurance for Drivers doing TNC.


Uh, I'll give you a hint. People outside the car can get injured. A pizza delivery driver doing taxi-like mileage is just as likely to hit another car or pedestrian.

Plus, in Chicago, I have to assume that if one of your pizzas isn't secure, it's basically a 700 lb flying projectile.


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## u-Boater

chi1cabby said:


> You have been writing hundreds of very long posts on insurance.
> But you won't Type in The Name of your Damn Insurance Company!
> 
> End of Discussion, as far as I'm concerned.


It's Progressive I'm sure...


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## chi1cabby

Piotrowski said:


> Can you put that 12k into perspective? What does regular car insurance cost there? What do you think drives it up that much?


In Chicago, the minimum limits of auto liability expected by the City to allow paratransit, taxi and Limos is $350,000 Combined Single Limit, Each Occurrence. It only covers the driver's and cab co's liability. It does not cover driver's injuries (drivers are required to pay into worker's comp Insr). The liability insurance doesn't pay for Collison damages to the cab either.
Obviously the miles driven is a big factor. The insurance policy is written for the cab, and the driving record of the cab driver is not checked to price the policy. But another reason is that cab passengers, and other drivers involved in a cab accident are more likely to claim injuries and sue, even in the case of minor fender benders.
There are only 2-3 insurance companies that write policies for Chicago cabs. So it is more expensive than other markets.


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## Tx rides

drivernotfound said:


> I would like to hear more about the comparison between Uber and Domino's pizza drivers (jokingly because Uber might make us deliver pizzas in the future who knows, but realistically because they are both "drive for profit" in the insurance company's mind.) Does it matter if the profit you're driving for is a pizza or a pax? How does Uber's insurance policy differ from that of average pizza drivers? Are the deductibles around the same for drivers?
> 
> Would my insurance company be a bit upset if I started driving for Dominos Pizza and didn't inform them? (Would they drop me or blacklist me as some people fear with Uber?)


When I first starting getting involved with the "privately owned" TNC insurance discussions, I was surprised to learn that the same gray areas of coverage apply for food deliveries.
Discussions I've heard revealed they have not historically been as alarming to the industry because of the minimal likelihood that food delivery drivers are hustling in non-commercial period to a new locations, competing with many other delivery companies at peak times. Denials HAVE been made, lawsuits have been filed against restaurants, we just don't hear so much about it because Dominoes/Pizza Hut, et al did not enter the market on the wings of social media hype. While most TNCs have been forced in to claiming primary liability during trip, it took a LOT of pressure to make that official, and still insurance companies want no HINT of liability during that phase, because passenger damage is a LOT costlier than pizza. As for the gray commercial times, the insurers still consider the "available for dispatch" mode to be commercial due to city street trolling (justifiably so. Another takeaway for me was that a lot of gray coverage zones will
become more black and white for most policies, and many non-livery uses may be excluded, OR included with significant cost. Could be that that Uber/Lyft have truly innovated insurance companies - at a cost to everyone who pulls up in their personal vehicle and receives money for anything


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## cybertec69

IbedrivinUX said:


> I don't think there are any gaps, It is pretty simple, Your own insurance cover up to the moment that the Uber app. sends you a request and you push accept to that ride, Then Uber picks up at that very second, If you don't think so go into the waybill information and see when it started, Then Uber covers till the driver slides the app to Stop the ride or end of trip, Then the personal insurance starts up again and you just wash and repeat! Till the app. gives you another request your own insurance is covering you, If you have a rider on board or are in route to pick up a rider Uber is covering the insurance, If it happens then Uber will ask you to see what your insurance will cover but if it is in their time frame of coverage I would not even bother with my insurance. Now this is just the way I am reading it.


Wrong, you are on the road because you are Ubering/lyfting, otherwise your car would be home or you taking it out for the night to town "not driving around looking to pick up rideshare customers for business purposes", not having it on the road continuously like you are doing when working a ride share business. I guess ignorance is bliss.


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Could be that that Uber/Lyft have truly innovated insurance companies - at a cost to everyone who pulls up in their personal vehicle and receives money for anything


Indeed. We all know that to play the game we have to pay the big boyz. That's the way it's done.


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## Tx rides

Tx rides said:


> When I first starting getting involved with the "privately owned" TNC insurance discussions, I was surprised to learn that the same gray areas of coverage apply for food deliveries.
> Discussions I've heard revealed they have not historically been as alarming to the industry because of the minimal likelihood that food delivery drivers are hustling in non-commercial period to a new locations, competing with many other delivery companies at peak times. Denials HAVE been made, lawsuits have been filed against restaurants, we just don't hear so much about it because Dominoes/Pizza Hut, et al did not enter the market on the wings of social media hype. While most TNCs have been forced in to claiming primary liability during trip, it took a LOT of pressure to make that official, and still insurance companies want no HINT of liability during that phase, because passenger damage is a LOT costlier than pizza. As for the gray commercial times, the insurers still consider the "available for dispatch" mode to be commercial due to city street trolling (justifiably so. Another takeaway for me was that a lot of gray coverage zones will
> become more black and white for most policies, and many non-livery uses may be excluded, OR included with significant cost. Could be that that Uber/Lyft have truly innovated insurance companies - at a cost to everyone who pulls up in their personal vehicle and receives money for anything


Now that I've reflected on this a bit and had my second cup of coffee...does anyone remember when Dominos eventually dropped their "30 minutes" campaign after tragic accidents and lawsuits (and cheating customers?) I expect some forced "attitude adjustments" across the TNC world, I don't think Travis K's "Shut Up, we do what we want" twitter campaign will hold up once the same types of incidents are in the news regularly. As I recall, many franchise operators just stopped honoring the Dominos 30 minute deal because of the obvious risks and costs. Seems like independent contractors are taking the same approach with these TNCs. Sometimes NATURAL law steps in before business laws have to!


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## Tx rides

chi1cabby said:


> I didn't call myself any kind of expert. The only thing I've said is that I've followed Uber related developments closely.
> Dude I drive a cab. So the cab has 24/7 full livery insurance. It costs 12k/yr in Chicago.


12K Oh - SNAP - but then again we don't have near the hours or miles a CHI cab will have, so I guess it is proportional.


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## Tx rides

chi1cabby said:


> In Chicago, the minimum limits of auto liability expected by the City to allow paratransit, taxi and Limos is $350,000 Combined Single Limit, Each Occurrence. It only covers the driver's and cab co's liability. It does not cover driver's injuries (drivers are required to pay into worker's comp Insr). The liability insurance doesn't pay for Collison damages to the cab either.
> Obviously the miles driven is a big factor. The insurance policy is written for the cab, and the driving record of the cab driver is not checked to price the policy. But another reason is that cab passengers, and other drivers involved in a cab accident are more likely to claim injuries and sue, even in the case of minor fender benders.
> There are only 2-3 insurance companies that write policies for Chicago cabs. So it is more expensive than other markets.


Who carries collision/comp? Do you have exclusive cab, or share with others?


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## Tx rides

I cannot imagine not having comprehensive/collision coverage for a commercial vehicle. That's like not paying taxes and hoping you never get caught. You will get caught and the cost will put you out of business. People who believe they will be able to use their personal coverage for damages are really naive. Not only will it NOT apply if you are with a pax, those app-on modes are being weeded out by insurers. Another risk providers consider: Vandalism. This is a competitive industry, and apparently targeted vandalism is nothing new. (GOD the longer I'm involved in this business the dirtier I feel! 

We were targeted last year, the serpentine belt was cut on one of our SUVs, and regular gas was poured in our diesel tank on our bus. The way it was done made it clear this was someone with fleet expertise.


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## chi1cabby

Tx rides said:


> Who carries collision/comp? Do you have exclusive cab, or share with others?


Drivers have the option of buying Collison Damage Insr with $500 deductible for ~$4/day (I think). 
The owner that I lease from has the Collision Damage coverage already.
I'm the only one who drivers the cab. The cab is with me 24/7.


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## Tx rides

chi1cabby said:


> Drivers have the option of buying Collison Damage Insr with $500 deductible for ~$4/day (I think).
> The owner that I lease from has the Collision Damage coverage already.
> I'm the only one who drivers the cab. The cab is with me 24/7.


Hmm..OT I suppose, but are you able to sub lease to maximize availability ? (Or are you subhuman, never needing any sleep? Lol) The various taxi laws across the country are quite perplexing. I have heard in some cities you cannot sublease, don't know how true that is.


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## chi1cabby

Tx rides said:


> are you able to sub lease to maximize availability ? (Or are you subhuman, never needing any sleep? Lol)


I can't sub lease on my own volition. But I can lease a cab with another driver, who'll have a separate lease and drive a separate shift. Many drivers who live on the Northside do that. I'm on the Southside...not too many cabbies live here.

I choose to lease full-time because I can cherry pick the busy hours, and work longer hours when it's busy. Plus I don't need a personal car. It's fewer hassles in leasing full-time, but it costs about $250/wk more.


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## IbedrivinUX

Chicab, what is your weekly lease? That will put some perspective on what we do.
I refuse to comment on post where people just want to argue.

Thanks.


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## IbedrivinUX

KAZ any luck on this? I wonder what his name is? Oh I'm not in your same market, I will still watch this thread, as the same broker should sell insurance from the same primary company.

Thank You.


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## SCdave

Tx rides said:


> I cannot imagine not having comprehensive/collision coverage for a commercial vehicle. That's like not paying taxes and hoping you never get caught. You will get caught and the cost will put you out of business. People who believe they will be able to use their personal coverage for damages are really naive. Not only will it NOT apply if you are with a pax, those app-on modes are being weeded out by insurers. Another risk providers consider: Vandalism. This is a competitive industry, and apparently targeted vandalism is nothing new. (GOD the longer I'm involved in this business the dirtier I feel!
> 
> We were targeted last year, the serpentine belt was cut on one of our SUVs, and regular gas was poured in our diesel tank on our bus. The way it was done made it clear this was someone with fleet expertise.


Not good but better gas in diesel than diesel in gas. Mean streets of livery biz, uh?


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## UberLuxbod

To be honest I don't know why Scrubscrub won't even give the name of his Insurance provider.

Does seem a little petty.

I am with Aviva.

They used to be called Norwich Union.


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## Angela Brisbane

I'm an Australian so laws over here are different but being a UberX driver is illegal over here. You need a taxi licence, which costs over $500,000. I asked my car insurer and a private driver simply isn't covered at all. I'm not sure how a non-commercial, private driver - meaning someone without an appropriate licence, can even qualify for commercial insurance. UberX claims that drivers are covered but where is the proof of this? Has anyone here actually got a copy of the insurance policy, with the driver's name listed as the insured, along with all the policy conditions? If you are a private driver providing a taxi service, meaning that you have no properly endorsed commercial licence at all, then how would you even qualify for commercial motor vehicle insurance? Could the insurance company then wheedle out of any potential claims by saying that they assumed you were a commercial driver with proper accreditation? I would never be a driver for any ride-sharing service unless I had a clearly defined insurance policy that specifically covered myself, a private ride-share driver, and passenger. I don't know of any insurance company that would offer this, and if they did, you would really want to read the fine print.


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## Tx rides

Angela Brisbane said:


> I'm an Australian so laws over here are different but being a UberX driver is illegal over here. You need a taxi licence, which costs over $500,000. I asked my car insurer and a private driver simply isn't covered at all. I'm not sure how a non-commercial, private driver - meaning someone without an appropriate licence, can even qualify for commercial insurance. UberX claims that drivers are covered but where is the proof of this? Has anyone here actually got a copy of the insurance policy, with the driver's name listed as the insured, along with all the policy conditions? If you are a private driver providing a taxi service, meaning that you have no properly endorsed commercial licence at all, then how would you even qualify for commercial motor vehicle insurance? Could the insurance company then wheedle out of any potential claims by saying that they assumed you were a commercial driver with proper accreditation? I would never be a driver for any ride-sharing service unless I had a clearly defined insurance policy that specifically covered myself, a private ride-share driver, and passenger. I don't know of any insurance company that would offer this, and if they did, you would really want to read the fine print.


500k!!! Good Lord! I guess that's one way to keep the competition down!!


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## IbedrivinUX

UberLuxbod said:


> To be honest I don't know why Scrubscrub won't even give the name of his Insurance provider.
> 
> Does seem a little petty.
> 
> I am with Aviva.
> 
> They used to be called Norwich Union.


Thank You for posting who you are with! 
Where are you? if you don't want the world knowing like I don't then Message me through the messaging system here on the forum. 
I spoke to a Agent(broker) here on Friday and I think my state it locked up with the Insurance Regulatory Commission and the few Insurance companies that do business here are in bed with the same!

That being said Scab is a scab and has never helped anyone in his life nor has anyone helped him along the way just ask him, my childhood "Best Friend" Was this way the last time I spoke with him and I asked him a favor of which his nosey wife stuck her big snout in the mess and really messed it all up! So we don't talk much(at all) anymore.


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## Orlando_Driver

chi1cabby said:


> I can't sub lease on my own volition. But I can lease a cab with another driver, who'll have a separate lease and drive a separate shift. Many drivers who live on the Northside do that. I'm on the Southside...not too many cabbies live here.
> 
> I choose to lease full-time because I can cherry pick the busy hours, and work longer hours when it's busy. Plus I don't need a personal car. It's fewer hassles in leasing full-time, but it costs about $250/wk more.


I used to be a weekly lease in the day, it's the way to go !


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## IbedrivinUX

OP We are dying to hear what came of the conversation with the Insurance person!


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## IbedrivinUX

UberLuxbod said:


> To be honest I don't know why Scrubscrub won't even give the name of his Insurance provider.
> 
> Does seem a little petty.
> 
> I am with Aviva.
> 
> They used to be called Norwich Union.


Hey, Are you in the UK? I don't think Aviva is in the states!!!


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## UberLuxbod

IbedrivinUX said:


> Thank You for posting who you are with!
> Where are you? if you don't want the world knowing like I don't then Message me through the messaging system here on the forum.
> I spoke to a Agent(broker) here on Friday and I think my state it locked up with the Insurance Regulatory Commission and the few Insurance companies that do business here are in bed with the same!
> 
> That being said Scab is a scab and has never helped anyone in his life nor has anyone helped him along the way just ask him, my childhood "Best Friend" Was this way the last time I spoke with him and I asked him a favor of which his nosey wife stuck her big snout in the mess and really messed it all up! So we don't talk much(at all) anymore.


I am in the UK so not relevant to the US as all Private Hire is licensed and has access to proper Hire & Reward Ins with personal use included.


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## Berliner

IbedrivinUX said:


> Hey, Are you in the UK? I don't think Aviva is in the states!!!


The UberApp for riders is working in 45 countries. As a rider I`d know if I`m as well been insured in Chicago as in Taipei, or not....


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## UberLuxbod

I suspect an Uber rider will be better Insured in a vehicle that is already a Livery/TNC/Private Hire vehicle.

For example UberBlack in the US, UberX in NY, UberBlack in Australia or any Uber in the UK and Eire.

If you are getting a "Rideshare" UberX then i personally feel the Insurance coverage provided by Uber is the least they could get away with.

My Insurance for example assume a % of my passengers will be either HNWI, Celebrities or Royalty etc.

I can only repeat my opinion.

Having sufficient insurance coverage is the driver/partners responsibility.

Not informing your insurance company about rideshare usage is not a good plan.

Especially if they specifically ask you.

To think otherwise shows a lack of maturity, ignorance or good old fashioned stupidy.

If anybody thinks Uber won't cut them loose at the first sign of trouble needs to wake up.


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## [email protected]

Checkout Travelers make sure you ask about rideshare coverage.


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## GypsyMaven

scrurbscrud said:


> Then hunt it down fools. Every state is different. Every insurance shopper has different needs (or they are just risk stupid!)
> 
> I ain't doing anyone's insurance homework for them. I had to 'work' to find what "I" needed. So do you ALL. And I don't want to disclose the details because it's personal information that I don't want in the public domain for privacy/honest posting reasons. I'm probably only 1 in how many hundred thousands of drivers who even have commercial coverage. How easy is that to track down on Uber/Lyfts end?
> 
> I sure as hell don't need to cut off my driving nose to spite my face. I can also afford to spend a little extra on insurance because I have a NICE XL vehicle that I'm not about to sacrifice to an uncovered accident.


I am new to the forum,
I drive in RDU area of NC.
Recently a Hertz rental car bus side-wiped me, it was the bus driver's fault.
I was on the Lyft platform when the accident happened. It has been a very stressful experience although Lyft insurance was primary at the time of the accident the
$2,500 deductible is more than the damage to my car... So basically I can wait until Hertz settles the claim or pay for the $2,400 of damage myself. 
I called every insurance company in NC, and none of them covered ride share. So then I called the Insurance Commissioner for NC. He said that insurance companies cannot write a ride share policy in the state of NC because of current insurance legislation. I am not lazy I did my homework and I was still unable to find rideshare insurance. 
If you are not interested in being helpful in your post,"IE: Sharing the name of the national insurance company that you found " you should not post at all about this topic. It is disrespectful to call other people names, and it is also against the rules of this forum.


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