# NY Cabbies want debt relief from taxi medallion loans



## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

https://nypost.com/2020/08/20/taxi-drivers-block-traffic-outside-city-hall-to-demand-debt-relief/
New York City cabbies formed a protest caravan of yellow taxis on Thursday, blocking traffic outside City Hall and the offices of three separate medallion lenders to demand immediate debt relief.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

ANT 7 said:


> https://nypost.com/2020/08/20/taxi-drivers-block-traffic-outside-city-hall-to-demand-debt-relief/
> New York City cabbies formed a protest caravan of yellow taxis on Thursday, blocking traffic outside City Hall and the offices of three separate medallion lenders to demand immediate debt relief.


They should try my debt relief program.

It's called pay off your shit and don't borrow money unless you can pay if off.


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## RideShare_Hustler (Jun 18, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> https://nypost.com/2020/08/20/taxi-drivers-block-traffic-outside-city-hall-to-demand-debt-relief/
> New York City cabbies formed a protest caravan of yellow taxis on Thursday, blocking traffic outside City Hall and the offices of three separate medallion lenders to demand immediate debt relief.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> pay off your shit and don't borrow money unless you can pay if off.


There are at least two problems with this:

1. The cost of a medallion was prohibitive. You bought one in the way that you bought a house.

2. Thanks to our suit happy society, if you actually managed to pay off your medallion, you had to keep out a loan against it to keep it from being taken in a lawsuit.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> There are at least two problems with this:
> 
> 1. The cost of a medallion was prohibitive. You bought one in the way that you bought a house.
> 
> 2. Thanks to our suit happy society, if you actually managed to pay off your medallion, you had to keep out a loan against it to keep it from being taken in a lawsuit.


I think they Should get Relief.
Not only were they decimated by Rideshare

COVID 
HAS AFFECTED EVERYONE !

THEY SHOULD GET SOME SORT OF HELP.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

They already have access to debt relief. It's called bankruptcy.

And I'm sure Bill DeBlasio is going to get right on that. Can't imagine who he's going to help first, bunch of medallion bagholders, or unionized city employees looking at layoffs?

https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/layoffs-still-table-22k-city-workers-mayor-says


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> 1. The cost of a medallion was prohibitive. You bought one in the way that you bought a house.
> 
> 2. Thanks to our suit happy society, if you actually managed to pay off your medallion, you had to keep out a loan against it to keep it from being taken in a lawsuit.



Debt increases risk. Even owning a home on a mortgage has risks. No guarantee that the home value will appreciate. See 2008
How does keeping a loan on it protect from losing it through lawsuit? I know you drive a cab, I'm genuinely curious. 



tohunt4me said:


> I think they Should get Relief.
> Not only were they decimated by Rideshare


Capitalism is a helluva drug.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> Debt increases risk. Even owning a home on a mortgage has risks. No guarantee that the home value will appreciate. See 2008


I am unsure of the connexion that you are trying to draw here. For now, I will answer it in this way: lenders always have lent on trends. This is why things like 2008 happen.



ColdRider said:


> How does keeping a loan on it protect from losing it through lawsuit? I know you drive a cab, I'm genuinely curious.


We do not have medallions in the Capital of Your Nation. In theory, we still have an open-entry market. In practice, it is somewhat different. Still, licences for vehicles can not be transferred.

To answer your question:

It is difficult and in some cases, next to impossible, for a creditor to seize or attach something on which money is owed, especially if the owner's equity is less than twenty per-cent. The party that originally lent the funds is in the first place when liens are settled. Thus, if you receive a hundred thousand dollar judgment against me and seek to move against my half-million dollar medallion on which the lender holds a lien of four-hundred-fifty-thousand dollars, you can attach it and sell it. You get half a million, but, before you can receive the first penny, the first lien holder, the original lender, gets his four hundred fifty thousand dollars. You are left with fifty thousand. Out of that, you pay expenses to attach the medallion, to get it transferred to your name then to sell it. After all of that, you do not have too much money left..

If nothing else, it becomes economically unfeasible for you to attach it.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

These medallion guys got bent over and screwed years ago, way before Covid hit. I feel bad for them, I really do. But subsidizing bubbles for people that used medallion debt as an ATM machine is only going to prolong the pain and encourage bad decision making.

They are effectively 21st century serfs, and their owner is the City of New York. Their only escape is bankruptcy and moving out of NY to get a fresh start.

These medallion loans should have never happened to begin with. The only people dumb enough to take the bait were third-world immigrants with no financial education or comprehension of the risks involved. They toiled for years in the City and, when it's all over, most of them will walk away with nothing.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...how-the-taxi-medallion-scam-ruined-thousands/
https://www.law.com/newyorklawjourn...dallion-fraud-scheme/?slreturn=20200820124805


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I am unsure of the connexion that you are trying to draw here. For now, I will answer it in this way: lenders always have lent on trends. This is why things like 2008 happen.


I referenced 2008 because you mentioned 
how buying a medallion is like buying a house.

Investments carry risk and having debt on the investment increases the risk.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

ColdRider said:


> I referenced 2008 because you mentioned
> how buying a medallion is like buying a house.
> 
> Investments carry risk and having debt on the investment increases the risk.


It's a tough call
Uber drivers took away Taxi rides and they had no issue with with that , and now Uber drivers are complaining about rates:smiles:
East Hampton - high IQ crowd stays on that side and they pull all the strings . Al Sharpton calls them the Hampton Latte Crowd.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> THEY SHOULD GET SOME SORT OF HELP.


but who pays for that relief?


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

This guy will pay
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-hes-selling-assets-doesnt-use-want.html


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

mbd said:


> Al Sharpton calls them the Hampton Latte Crowd.


I have no idea who that could be.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> I have no idea who that could be.
> 
> View attachment 509123


When trouble arises in NYC, they hide in the Hamptons.

I want the riots to happen in the Hamptons, but for whatever reason , it never happens &#128512;I wonder why :thumbup: It's like the Facebook targeted ads... it outshines all other platform with more $$$. Facebook knows your thinking, so essentially you are not thinking .:smiles: Them fellas know in advance.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

ColdRider said:


> They should try my debt relief program.
> 
> It's called pay off your shit and don't borrow money unless you can pay if off.


CR those medallions went for like a million before Uber and Lyft decimated the cab industry.

I don't think your way would work under the circumstances. If no government relief, then their best option is bankruptcy.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> These medallion guys got bent over and screwed years ago, way before Covid hit. I feel bad for them, I really do. But subsidizing bubbles for people that used medallion debt as an ATM machine is only going to prolong the pain and encourage bad decision making.
> 
> They are effectively 21st century serfs, and their owner is the City of New York. Their only escape is bankruptcy and moving out of NY to get a fresh start.
> 
> ...


I was close to getting a medallion in Philadelpha or somewhere back in 2010...

Back then getting a medallion wasn't as insane is it seems now. Taxis were ubiquitous and demand was not just consistent but growing for a century, and having a medallion was something you could always get money from. Even if it's as little as renting it out to someone else (Who absorbs all the expenses including the car and insurance) you could even leave town for a year or more and keep making payments with little or next to no actual effort.

I opted for Orlando because there's no medallion and housing was cheaper, taxes are lower.

As for the main argument of this lawsuit,

The taxi argument is that basically uber/lyft are just unlicensed taxis, and the cities argument is that they arn't and there's a big difference.

The cities can't afford to lose this lawsuit. Just 1,000 cars at 100,000 loss in value per car is 100 million fricken dollars. Reality?

13,605 (I looked it up) medallions at a loss of value of $250,000 (a conservative estimate for loss in value) each is 3,401,250,000

Or a loss in value of 3.4 BILLION dollars, That's Billion with a *B*. Truth of the matter it could easily be twice that figure at 500,000 per medallion.

This higher estimate is 6.8 _BILLION_ dollars. (Billion with a B)
These medallions aren't all financed but for those who are these guys are stuck into paying for loans for a commodity that has lost incredibly amounts of value in the last few years. If they walk away from the loans their credit is ****ed for years. Or they can keep making payments and hope that uber/lyft go belly up and the value pops back.

If I had a NYC medallion I'd be living in my car 7 days a week if I had to in order to keep making payments on the medallion, praying for a miracle.

But if I lived in NYC and I had the cash I'd buy a medallion right now, because uber pay is always going down and even if it takes a decade I think uber is going to strangle in the future. Crazy? Well yeah but medallions are dirt cheap and with a medallion you don't have to get screwed by uber.

If the city of NYC had required uber/lyft to work with Taxis instead of doing their own thing the medallions wouldn't have lost value.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> CR those medallions went for like a million before Uber and Lyft decimated the cab industry.
> 
> I don't think your way would work under the circumstances. If no government relief, then their best option is bankruptcy.


I'm sure. Not my fault the price was over-inflated.

Many borrowers thought they were going to make nice profits buying houses they couldn't afford just to flip a couple years later and then the housing bubble popped.

My debt relief plan is simple: I'm not saying pay off your shit in one quick swoop if you can't. But pay your shit by any means necessary or don't borrow at all.

I've paid over $25k in student loans this year so far (most of it during quarantine). It wasn't fun, but seeing the light at the end of the tunnel makes it worth it for me.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

ColdRider said:


> I'm sure. Not my fault the price was over-inflated.
> 
> Many borrowers thought they were going to make nice profits buying houses they couldn't afford just to flip a couple years later and then the housing bubble popped.
> 
> ...


With a million dollar debt and making only average wages you will never pay off the debt, you would die first. Bankruptcy or a mercy hand out is your only options.

Those people that got burned in housing with the Great Recession largely did have to file bankruptcy.

Another big difference is housing wax and wane and if the burrow could hold on to the property enough years he could still make money.

Those cab medallions are permanently underwater


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

Medallions are granted in different ways across the US, sometimes by bidding and sometimes by lottery.
But they all essentially are a method for workers to pay for the right to work.
Furthermore, in many cases they are available to speculators rather than working drivers and that makes the value get bid up to unrealistic values and then the speculators prey on drivers and take a large proportion of the earnings. Many times exploiting naive immigrant workers.
In NYC this has resulted in millionaire exploiters and drivers driven to suicide.

Beginning in Sept 2019, the New York Times ran a series of articles exposing the collaboration between the City Of New York and medallion speculators. In some cases naive immigrants were paying thousands per month only to learn later that they had no equity because the financing was actually interest only and that had not been explained.

Finally, in February of this year the New York State Attorney General Sued NYC over their allegedly fraudulent collusion with medallion speculators.

Someday, I hope there is a way to take the speculation and exploitation out of the medallion system.Maybe....;
Require the medallion to be owned by a verified working taxi driver.
End the transferability of the medallions.
Replace a purchase price with a mileage based monthly fee and a lottery system to grant the medallions.

'They Were Conned': How Reckless Loans Devastated a Generation of Taxi Drivers - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/19/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

As Thousands of Taxi Drivers Were Trapped in Loans, Top Officials Counted the Money - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/19/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

'We Were Wiped Out': New Yorkers Preyed on Chicago Cabbies - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

New York Attorney General Accuses N.Y.C. of Fraud Over Taxi Crisis - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/20/nyregion/nyc-taxi-medallion-lawsuit.html


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

from what i know...


Some of the medallions are actually held by drivers with loans.... Those are the ones i feel bad for.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

I feel bad for the _actual _taxi drivers. Only a small percentage of medallions were owned by people that actually drove the taxi. You can understand why when they were going for 850k each. They were mainly owned by wealthy investors who bought them to flip them later on. They lost their shirt and those people (i.e. Michael Cohen) I don't feel bad for.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

I'm a bit confused. Jean Tannis said that he's been a medallion owner since 1987 but he still owes $436,000 and he pays $2300 a month but can not afford to anymore?

soooo this guy has been paying $2300 a month for 33 years and he still owes $436,000????

Am I reading this right and is this "the norm" in the Taxi business?


ANT 7 said:


> https://nypost.com/2020/08/20/taxi-drivers-block-traffic-outside-city-hall-to-demand-debt-relief/
> New York City cabbies formed a protest caravan of yellow taxis on Thursday, blocking traffic outside City Hall and the offices of three separate medallion lenders to demand immediate debt relief.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Cdub2k said:


> I'm a bit confused. Jean Tannis said that he's been a medallion owner since 1987 but he still owes $436,000 and he pays $2300 a month but can not afford to anymore?
> 
> soooo this guy has been paying $2300 a month for 33 years and he still owes $436,000????
> 
> Am I reading this right and is this "the norm" in the Taxi business?


A lot of these guys were using their medallions like an ATM machine. Many of the loans were interest only, effectively making them medallion renters, not owners. Taking on debt continually and using them as collateral. As long as the music was playing the bubble got bigger and bigger. Uber chiseled all that away over the past five years, and Covid was the _coup de grâce_.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> A lot of these guys were using their medallions like an ATM machine. Many of the loans were interest only, effectively making them medallion renters, not owners. Taking on debt continually and using them as collateral. As long as the music was playing the bubble got bigger and bigger. Uber chiseled all that away over the past five years, and Covid was the _coup de grâce_.


My suspicion is that he has refinanced that medallion at least a time or two and got more cash out of it. If he still owes almost 500 on it I'd be truly shocked if he didn't refinance at least once.

A quick google search tells me that in the mid 80s taxi medallions where in the 200,000 range.

So unless he refinanced in or didn't buy in the 80s he's lying.

Now here's a hypothetical,

If your in the early 2000s and looking to buy a house, your medallion is worth half a million and it's paid off.

Why not mortgage your medallion and use the cash to buy a house?

Another hypothetical,

You can't use a traditional auto loan to pay for a taxi (because you can't, the financing companies say you can't) but your medallion is worth half a million and you have equity out the wing wang on it..

Using the medallion to take out a loan isn't a bad idea. Not at all really..


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Cdub2k said:


> Am I reading this right and is this "the norm" in the Taxi business?





Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> My suspicion is that he has refinanced that medallion at least a time or two and got more cash out of it. Iy you can't) but your medallion is worth half a million and you have equity out the wing wang on it..Using the medallion to take out a loan isn't a bad idea. Not at all really..


You kept a loan out on it in order to prevent its getting attached or seized in the event of an adverse judgment, such as in a collision.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You kept a loan out on it in order to prevent its getting attached or seized in the event of an adverse judgment, such as in a collision.


That's a good point...

I was never much deeper financially invested than the car itself, not going to lie. I hadn't considered that angle.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> . I hadn't considered that angle.


It only applies in a market where the medallion is transferable and is expensive. In the Capital of Your Nation, we do not have medallions. In theory, we still have an open entry market, although, in practice, it does have its restrictions. The vehicle licence is not transferable. For this reason, you need not do that, here. In one Maryland suburb, there is a cap on the licences, but, if you give up the licence, it reverts to Montgomery County which issues it to the next name on the waiting list. Therefore, it has no monetary value so you need not do it there. In another Maryland suburb, you can do private transfer of vehicle licences, but, the only value that it has is the annual fee that Prince George's County charges. This is because not many people want to work there compared to other jurisdictions.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> It only applies in a market where the medallion is transferable and is expensive. In the Capital of Your Nation, we do not have medallions. In theory, we still have an open entry market, although, in practice, it does have its restrictions. The vehicle licence is not transferable. For this reason, you need not do that, here. In one Maryland suburb, there is a cap on the licences, but, if you give up the licence, it reverts to Montgomery County which issues it to the next name on the waiting list. Therefore, it has no monetary value so you need not do it there. In another Maryland suburb, you can do private transfer of vehicle licences, but, the only value that it has is the annual fee that Prince George's County charges. This is because not many people want to work there compared to other jurisdictions.


The DC model should be used everywhere.

Medallions/permits, liquor licenses, etc. should be non-transferable.

Unfortunately for the taxpayers of NYC and probably the state of NY, the day the greedy NYC govt began auctioning medallions for fast, easy money was the day they put the taxpayers on the hook for potentially having to bail out the medallion holders.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> My suspicion is that he has refinanced that medallion at least a time or two and got more cash out of it. If he still owes almost 500 on it I'd be truly shocked if he didn't refinance at least once.
> 
> A quick google search tells me that in the mid 80s taxi medallions where in the 200,000 range.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a lot of homeowners in the early 2000's. They lost their shirts too. Oh, well. You play with fire, sometimes you get burned.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You kept a loan out on it in order to prevent its getting attached or seized in the event of an adverse judgment, such as in a collision.


A few years ago I read an article about reckless NYC cabbies maiming people and the victims received the maximum payout of only $10,000 (the minimum liability required to operate a taxi). Meanwhile, the highly valuable medallions were out of reach for the victims.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> My suspicion is that he has refinanced that medallion at least a time or two and got more cash out of it. If he still owes almost 500 on it I'd be truly shocked if he didn't refinance at least once.
> 
> A quick google search tells me that in the mid 80s taxi medallions where in the 200,000 range.
> 
> ...


For years (at least until rideshare came along) medallion owners enjoyed a high cash-flow income from their medallions.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> The DC model should be used everywhere.
> 
> Medallions/permits, liquor licenses, etc. should be non-transferable.
> 
> Unfortunately for the taxpayers of NYC and probably the state of NY, the day the greedy NYC govt began auctioning medallions for fast, easy money was the day they put the taxpayers on the hook for potentially having to bail out the medallion holders.


Frankly they should bail them out.

They torpedoed a publicly traded commodity,

The fact medallions have a monitary value isn't their owners fault. NYC could easily have avoided this but they kept auctioning them off for 100s of thousands.

And can someone explain to me how a taxi is different from Uber and not the same exact product please tell me.

Letting Uber operate the way they did had a negative impact on medallion sales.

It's eauivilant to selling liquor licenses for 100s of thousands and having them never expire then turning around and offering "alchohol sales licenses" for peanuts a year and having them only apply when your selling booze in glasses but not bottles. Then saying the liquor licenses are unaffected because you can sell alchohol in bottles and alchohol sales licensees can't.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Meanwhile, the highly valuable medallions were out of reach for the victims.


.............because so much money was owed on them that it would have cost the plaintiffs more to attach them than they would have realised from the sale.

If you think that liability insurance for taxicabs in New York City is bad, consider that state minimums in D.C. have not increased since 1983; 25/50/10, and no that "10" _ain't no type-ee-graphicull err-urr_. Taxicab drivers can by only state minimums in D.C. Some of us who own our home or have other assets that we want to protect have been caterwauling for years for higher limits, at least for those of us who wanted to buy them. My Uber/Lyft car, my hoopty and the DeSoto all have 100/300/100 policies. My agent will not even sell a state minimum policy.

Back when D.C. was making life hard for owner-operators who lived in the suburbs, I was in the process of forming a holding company so that the suburban drivers could deal with the problem. One of the things that I did, so that I could protect everyone else's cab in the event of a catastrophic judgment, was look for an umbrella policy with a million dollar limit. I was surprised at how inexpensive it would have been. I sought the umbrella policy due to an scenario that I often use to illustrate how stupid D.C's ridiculously low state minimums are. Consider this:

One of my drivers runs a red light as he is doing fity miles per hour and T-bones a BMW 600 series. You have a guy who is driving it. In the front next to him is his wife who is thirty-four weeks along. In the back, you have two eighty year old mothers-in-law. The car is a total loss. The husband is maimed. The wife not only is maimed, but goes into labour; the baby is born dead. The mothers-in-law both die. You are looking at a million and a half dollar judgment, *MINIMUM*. The insurance company is on the hook only for sixty-thousand dollars; fifty thousand for the multiple death/injuries and ten thousand for the car. The aggregate responsibility of the insurance company will not even cover the cost of the car. This scenario, or something similar, is not far-fetched.

What happens is that the plaintiff then goes after the holding company whose name is on all of the registrations. To be sure, each of those cabs is not worth much individually, but, the aggregate value of them is something. All of the drivers could lose their cabs. Still, the judgment would not be satisfied, but, it would make a dent. If the driver who caused the collision had nothing, that would be the end of it. If he had something, he could lose that.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And can someone explain to me how a taxi is different from Uber and not the same exact product please tell me.


In many large cities, especially Manhattan, street hails are the big difference.



Another Uber Driver said:


> .............because so much money was owed on them that it would have cost the plaintiffs more to attach them than they would have realised from the sale.


I believe the article focused on the zillionaires who owned many medallions as opposed to the mom and pop owners.




Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Frankly they should bail them out.
> 
> They torpedoed a publicly traded commodity,
> 
> ...


It's tough to put the toothpaste back into the tube but occupational permits should never be transferable, period.

Sitting on them and not using them also shouldn't be allowed. Use them or lose them.

Better yet they should be abolished unless the govt can make a compelling case for their existence in which case licensing fees should be kept as affordable as possible so that working class people can afford them.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> In many large cities, especially Manhattan, street hails are the big difference.


And uber driver's arn't doing street hails?

You really expect me to believe that?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And uber driver's arn't doing street hails?


....are they in numbers or a few unicorns? Not to be confused with folks who have their own clients, commercial insurance and a mobile pay account setup. Those are phone hail? &#129335;‍♂


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And uber driver's arn't doing street hails?
> 
> You really expect me to believe that?


The Uber drivers that do street hails are doing it illegally and face large fines if they get caught.


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## JaysUberman (Dec 19, 2017)

Isn't this just going to be a potential bailout for millionaires? Aren't most of the medallions owned by absentee owners? Didn't Trump's lawyer have like 30 of them at one time?

I would imagine most of the owner operators bought them long after the values came down. This is exactly what happened here in Toronto where owner's plates went from over $300,000 to $15,000. Today the only ones buying them are individual drivers who want to be owners.

There was an attempted lawsuit for 1.7 billion that was tossed at the end of last year for the same reason (presumably) this one will;

"Justice Paull Perell of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice thinks otherwise. "Neither the City of Toronto Act nor the Toronto Municipal Code require the City to protect the interests of taxicab owners," said Justice Perell."

Read more at MobileSyrup.com: Taxi group sues Toronto for $1.7 billion due to hardship caused by Uber, case tossed by judge


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> uber driver's arn't doing street hails?





Nats121 said:


> The Uber drivers that do street hails are doing it illegally and face large fines if they get caught.


.......not to mention no insurance coverage if they are involved in a collision. Even if the Uber/Lyft driver is not at fault, if it comes out that he was driving for compensation off-application, his insurer will drop him. Further, Uber and Lyft will de-activate, no questions asked if any driver does a street hail and gets popped.

Hardly anyone around here carries cash as it is, so they would be hard put to be able to pay. Credit cards charge high fees for cash transactions.


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

The plight of cab drivers keeps me up at night 😆


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> The Uber drivers that do street hails are doing it illegally and face large fines if they get caught.





Another Uber Driver said:


> .......not to mention no insurance coverage if they are involved in a collision. Even if the Uber/Lyft driver is not at fault, if it comes out that he was driving for compensation off-application, his insurer will drop him. Further, Uber and Lyft will de-activate, no questions asked if any driver does a street hail and gets popped.
> 
> Hardly anyone around here carries cash as it is, so they would be hard put to be able to pay. Credit cards charge high fees for cash transactions.


What about "my other driver"... that asshole i'm always hearing about who takes too many paxholes in the car at once or who picks up people with small kids and no car seat...

I'm pretty THAT GUY would do a street hail.

And in NYC i'm betting it happens more often than other places.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> What about "my other driver"... that @@@@@@@ i'm always hearing about who takes too many paxholes in the car at once or who picks up people with small kids and no car seat...


I have no doubt that Uber drivers do it. In fact, not only am I aware of their getting popped, I have seen it happen here. Further, I have had people approach me when they see the trade dress. I tell them to hail a cab.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have no doubt that Uber drivers do it. In fact, not only am I aware of their getting popped, I have seen it happen here. Further, I have had people approach me when they see the trade dress. I tell them to hail a cab.


It happens to be an arrestable offense in Florida.

I do it in the TAXI but I know it's legal and I know insurance covers everything, because it's a taxi...

I also have been doing it long enough to know it can and does happen.

Frankly in the bigger cities I know it happens much more, because in certain parts of town I know that street hails just happen that much more.

Most of my street hails fall under 4 catagories...

1. Neighborhoods I expect them to happen in when I'm cruising for a street hail
2. Dropping off a hotel/restaurant in the tourist areas.
3. "I saw you parked across the street at the wawa and needed a ride"
4. "Holy crap I never expected to be able to flag a taxi in this neighborhood/out here"

Number 1/2 are the most common in spite of spending most of my time outside the tourist areas. 3/4 happen but not very often.. almost never. 3 is actually infinitely more common than 4. When 4 happens it's a case of not knowing if me or the person i just picked up is more surprised they just got picked up.

One of the best stories i have of number 3 is... 3:00 am i'm parked at a train station in one of the suburbs... What do I expect to get at 3:00 am? Something dispatched... in like an hour or so... 45 minutes at the earliest

I'm on my phone and I about poop myself when someone knocks on the window. I turn expecting a cop or something and it's a prominent local lawyer (ads on TV) and low and behold he needs a ride.

WTF?

Ends up being a $50 ride across town at 3:00 am and he saw the cab parked across the street and in a drunken haze decided to walk over and see if I would give him a ride.

Off a 24 hour rental...
Grand total 20/25 of my fares will end up being dispatched with 5 being off cab stands or drop/loads or a very rare flag down.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I do it in the TAXI but I know it's legal and I know insurance covers everything, because it's a taxi...


You and I are licenced and insured to do it. Uber/Lyft drivers _ain't_.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> in the bigger cities I know it happens much more,


They happen here both in places where street hails often happen and where they do not.

The supermarkets in "underserved" neighbourhoods here _still_ have their so-called "courtesy drivers". These guys have been at it since the end of the Second World War. They have their private cars. They line up, mostly on weekends, but, some on weekdays and haul people who come out of the grocery stores for a flat rate in cash. They work the grocery stores in neighbourhoods where the cabs were harder to find. I am surprised that the landlords and the grocery stores put up with this, as, if there is a collision, the "Courtesy" driver has no coverage. The plaintiffs easily could sue the property owner and the grocery store. Despite that, these "courtesy drivers" persist. Several past Chairs of the Taxican Commission have told me that they never did anything about them because few cab drivers complained about them. In reality, those guys were taking nothing from us, as we were not serving those neighbourhoods or stores.

Every once in a while, I did get into it with the courtesy drivers. This used to happen mostly when I did accept a call at one of those grocery stores, but it did happen when I dropped off at one, as well. Finally, I live in an "underserved" neighbourhood and there is one grocery store in it where I often shop. Despite the fifty *OFF DUTY* signs that I have all over the cab, people still approach me. If they colunteer the destination and it is not too far, I will tell them that they should try to get a ride, as I _am_ there to shop, not work. I add that if they are still there when I come back outside, I will drive them.

This has caused some of these courtesy drivers to be most discourteous to me, but, all that I need do is remind them that I am licenced and insured to do this, so, if they do not like it, they can summon the Hack Inspector or Police. That quiets them.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Most of my street hails fall under 4 catagories...
> 
> 1. Neighborhoods I expect them to happen in when I'm cruising for a street hail
> 2. Dropping off a hotel/restaurant in the tourist areas.
> ...


One and Two are, indeed, the most common.

I get Three more frequently than you would expect. A corollary of Three that I get often is after a Nationals game if girlfriend does not go with me (which she usually does). I park on Capitol Hill and walk to the park. When the game is finished, I walk back. Many people will walk to Capitol Hill to try to get a slightly lower Uber/Lyft price. They look over, see the cab and decide that they do not want to wait for Uber/Lyft or pay the jacked up Uber/Lyft price. I also get it at this one grocery store, as I have recounted _supra_. I have had it at restaurants and Seven-Eleven, as well.

I get Four not infrequently, as well.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> One of the best stories i have of number 3 is... 3:00 am i'm parked at a train station in one of the suburbs... What do I expect to get at 3:00 am? Something dispatched... in like an hour or so... 45 minutes at the earliest


I know several guys who work at night who make good money looking for what they call "stragglers". The one guy who was most successful at it, a guy from Massachusetts, sadly, picked up the wrong straggler one night. They robbed him stabbed him, set his cab on fire.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I get the concept of the grocery store (fortune tellers)

I also get how they slip through the cracks...
If they occurred around here I wouldn't fault them for doing it nor would i complain or report them to code enforcement (taxi/limo regulators fall under code enforcement)


The difference is that the cab company (the last one left doing dispatch anyway) is very strict about not letting drivers weasel out of bad fares and we actually do service grocery stores. working daytime I'll get 3-5 of them, just a hazard of daytime working. And some of the folks getting these trips will actually tip if you help them load/unload and carry in their things. But without a tip they arn't worth $6.00 usually, usually in the $4.20 to 4.80 range.

They just never had that motivation to pop into existence here I guess.


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