# Uber CEO to drivers: “Do your math”—We’ll actually need more drivers in 10 years



## SLuz (Oct 20, 2016)

They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?

>>11.09.17

robot revolution
*Uber CEO to drivers: "Do your math"-We'll actually need more drivers in 10 years*

With Uber's autonomous-car ambitions barreling full-steam ahead, it's understandable that drivers who work for the company would feel anxious about their futures. But Dara Khosrowshahi, Uber's newly installed chief executive, is here to allay those fears-or at least try to.

"Ten years from now, are we going to have _more_ drivers than we have today? I absolutely think so," Khosrowshahi said today at the _New York Times_ DealBook Conference.

That may sound counterintuitive for a company obsessed with self-driving technology, but Khosrowshahi insists the math holds up. How? Because Uber's growth will offset the effects of automation, he says, at least for the near future. In 10 years, Khosrowshahi estimates that 70% or 80% of Uber rides will be autonomous, which means that at least 20% or 30% of rides will still require drivers. *But because Uber's network will likely be 10 or 20 times larger than it is today, that 20% or 30% will require a larger pool of drivers*.

Of course, this formula doesn't take into account that Uber is only one company, and that the effects of automation are likely to be felt far and wide across numerous industries that require drivers today. Economists have been working overtime to try to predict how this profound shift will impact labor demand, but it's safe to say that the consequences-intended and unintended-will be significant.

Khosrowshahi was responding to a question from _Times_ financial columnist Andrew Ross Sorkin, who asked what the Uber chief would say to a driver who is worried about becoming obsolete.

"I would tell a driver, do your math," Khosrowshahi responded, before making his case for why the demand for drivers will increase.

Take it with a grain of salt, though. In that same interview, Khosrowshahi also attempted to deflect Uber's wide-ranging labor disputes by claiming that drivers actually "don't want to be employees."CZ<<

https://www.fastcompany.com/4049402...h-well-actually-need-more-drivers-in-10-years


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Pffffft!


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

In ten years from now, I will likely give Uber 20% or 30% less care of their idiotic math than I do today.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

they don't cares about their drivers now, why would they care in 10 years?


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## CarterPeerless (Feb 10, 2016)

So if you assume they are doing 5 million rides per day (older stat - probably higher now). In 10 years, they expect their volume serviced only by autonomous vehicles to be between 35 million and 80 million rides per day. Let's say 50 million per day. In a best case scenario, a single autonomous vehicle will carry 50 rides per day (allowing for demand fluctuation, cleaning, refueling, etc). So they intend to have a 1 million autonomous vehicles in the field in 10 years. If you assume that they could get the price of a vehicle down to $100k per unit, the cost to field 1 million volvo's is $100 billion, just for the hardware.

From a company that hasn't turned a profit. Using vehicles that are bested by an apartment gate. 

I think someone should be checking his own math to see if such an expectation is reasonable.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

In ten years this little old monkey...

Will be in my 70s...

I hope to God...

That I'm not still driving Uber...8>)

Rakos


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Uber drivers do your math. That's the funniest thread title I've ever seen in UP.net. The deductive reasoning of the average Uber driver already is "lower rates = more money". So I guess "more drivers = more fares" isn't too much of a stretch.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Surely, none of us will still be doing this in 10 years. They'll have a new generation of suckers by then...if the whole thing hasn't collapsed into a distant memory.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

You remember when...

The Uber mantra was...

Lower fares means more riders...

Did you buy it...

I sure didn't...

Rakos


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Rakos said:


> You remember when...
> 
> The Uber mantra was...
> 
> ...


 Yeah but you're the guy who thinks planet of the apes is a porn flick.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

If people would stop buying cars, then a better retirement we shall see.


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## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Autonomous cars are not happening without someone b hind the wheel as a default. 

No computer can compute and decipher an emergency situation like our brains. 

There is no fight or flight with computers and those cars will crash left and right. 

Only way they would ever work is if every car on road was autonomous. 

Science has already study the cause and effect, even engineer behind wheeel doesn’t have split second reflex action in emergency. 

Keep hyping cares for your IPO that will never happen


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

Against my better judgement that asked "_who in their right mind would take this CEO job?" _I had fancied Dara to be smart. Now I'm inclined to judge him as simply cunning.


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## Monkchoi (Feb 2, 2016)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


In a nutshell, in 10 yrs I'll be flipping the finger to a majority of autonomous cars during a road rage? Kinda takes the rage out of road rage.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

What an incredibly dumb thing to say. Why should anyone take Uber's projections seriously? They've failed at everything they've attempted.
The math I'm doing tells me the new CEO is 100% delusional, or a liar, probably both. He's not even smart enough to know that drivers don't trust a word Uber utters. He's clueless.


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

Uber drivers to CEO: "Do your worst" --You may actually wish you had drivers 10 years from now.


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## jaystonepk (Oct 30, 2017)

If autonomous vehicles have to follow the same atrocious partner GPS it'll be 1-2 weeks before Uber pax abandon the whole system and just start walking everywhere.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Autonomous cars are not happening without someone b hind the wheel as a default.
> 
> No computer can compute and decipher an emergency situation like our brains.
> 
> ...


This might be the only hope for you. Worth a try. https://i.imgur.com/Ofo8Te7.gif



Irishjohn831 said:


> Autonomous cars are not happening without someone b hind the wheel as a default.
> 
> No computer can compute and decipher an emergency situation like our brains.
> 
> ...


Nvidia computer chip can do 24 trillion calculations per second. You sound like you forget to turn your lights on.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SLuz said:


> "Ten years from now, are we going to have _more_ drivers than we have today? I absolutely think so," Khosrowshahi said today


Uber has lied in the past. Nothing will stop it from lying in the present or the future.


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## Beepbeep41 (Apr 25, 2017)

CarterPeerless said:


> So if you assume they are doing 5 million rides per day (older stat - probably higher now). In 10 years, they expect their volume serviced only by autonomous vehicles to be between 35 million and 80 million rides per day. Let's say 50 million per day. In a best case scenario, a single autonomous vehicle will carry 50 rides per day (allowing for demand fluctuation, cleaning, refueling, etc). So they intend to have a 1 million autonomous vehicles in the field in 10 years. If you assume that they could get the price of a vehicle down to $100k per unit, the cost to field 1 million volvo's is $100 billion, just for the hardware.
> 
> From a company that hasn't turned a profit. Using vehicles that are bested by an apartment gate.
> 
> I think someone should be checking his own math to see if such an expectation is reasonable.


Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


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## Rick N. (Mar 2, 2016)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...





SLuz said:


> *But because Uber's network will likely be 10 or 20 times larger than it is today, that 20% or 30% will require a larger pool of drivers*.


does this mean that even robots will hate pool?that they'll need human ants to do them?


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Rakos said:


> You remember when...
> 
> The Uber mantra was...
> 
> ...


Portland Oregon has 1300 *legal* city registered cabs. Portland has 10,000 Uber/Lyft drivers. Uber/Lyft drivers used to make more per day than a taxi....at least until they had to compete with 9000 other Uber/Lyft drivers for the same small slice of pie.

More drivers produces less income. If Uber raised the rates, it would also reduce income. Why? Because there'd be 20,000 drivers vs. 10,000.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

phillipzx3 said:


> Portland Oregon has 1300 *legal* city registered cabs. Portland has 10,000 Uber/Lyft drivers. Uber/Lyft drivers used to make more per day than a taxi....at least until they had to compete with 9000 other Uber/Lyft drivers for the same small slice of pie.
> 
> More drivers produces less income. If Uber raised the rates, it would also reduce income. Why? Because there'd be 20,000 drivers vs. 10,000.


Bingo!!!

You have graduated...

And now are qualified....

To drive UBER EXPRESS...8>)

Rakos








PS. It says "I was already educated beyond my intelligence...


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Beepbeep41 said:


> Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


Because it's an entirely different game when you don't need drivers. Uber needs drivers but they also need the drivers to supply the very expensive tool, the car. If Uber had to invest the tens of thousands for the car, they wouldn't be able to treat drivers like crap. If an Uber driver quits, no big deal, but if Uber had invested the money for the car and the driver quits, it's a big deal. The expensive tool is now sitting idle.

A self driving taxi service however is an entirely different game. The cost of the asset, the car, is a bargain when you get to keep 100 percent of the fare. From a liability and public relations aspect the self driving taxi company will have to own the cars.

They will have to be able to prove all their cars are maintained in excellent condition and inspected weekly if not daily. If Tesla tried to operate a self driving taxi service with private cars, Waymo would destroy them in the media by saying Tesla has no control over how the cars on their system are being maintained.


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

LOL! I won't be driving for uber by that point.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Believe me when I say that the last thing Dara wants is for drivers to be good at math.


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## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

I think the math should include other companies in the business that are ahead of the program of the driverless taxi route. In ten years they might not have the market piece of the pie they think will be there. Just imagine the cuts to fares to stay competitive when two or three companies going after customer's prepaid memberships...I for sure will NOT be the on the 20-30% of suckers



Beepbeep41 said:


> Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


I read somewhere that the cost will have to be the 20K per car range to profit with technology already in it.


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## UbingInLA (Jun 24, 2015)

_Uber CEO to drivers: "Do your meth"_










_Uber drivers to CEO: "OK"_


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

That looks like...

A methage to do meth...8>O

Best tooth killer on the planet....8>)

I understand...

You were being fathesus...8>)

Rakos


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

jgiun1 said:


> I think the math should include other companies in the business that are ahead of the program of the driverless taxi route. In ten years they might not have the market piece of the pie they think will be there. Just imagine the cuts to fares to stay competitive when two or three companies going after customer's prepaid memberships...I for sure will NOT be the on the 20-30% of suckers
> 
> I read somewhere that the cost will have to be the 20K per car range to profit with technology already in it.


This was the hottest phone on the market before Apple launched the iphone.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...8219/81a7f6e9-df92-4f2a-8960-4ccf87a4c748.jpg

A year later you couldn't give them away. Uber is walking dead and Dara knows it. He was hired because he promised the board he could tell bald faced lies with a straight face.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

Blatherskite said:


> Uber drivers to CEO: "Do your worst" --You may actually wish you had drivers 10 years from now.


You sir are absolutely correct. I would say there are 50/50 odds that Uber will exist in ten years.
I think by then it will simply be a verb for late night show host to use when describing a failure or scam.

I think Uber is hopping to get people to "let their cars drive themselves for Uber" Uber will trick driverless car owners into letting Uber borrow the car, while calling the owner a partner and offering a % of the ride profits*.
They will use the catch phrase like "let your car work for you".


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## Laino (Jul 29, 2017)

In 10 years uber will be gone. Other companies are coming with 15% commission. Now is uber and lyft vs drivers. Soon there will be many more vs drivers and they will fight for us. The ceo or whatever he is trying to steer the sinking ship. Don’t pay atention to the boy with the pink sunglasses.
P.s. : Just farted really bad in the car and I’m going to pick a fare...


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## SickOfThisSh (Oct 15, 2017)

Dara : Do your math.

UberTranslation : Just trust us we have all the data...WHY DON'T YOU TRUST US!!!


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


He sounds fairly reasonable. I can see the possibility of SDCs taking a 70% to 80% market share in the next ten years.


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## Jerseyguy72 (Aug 15, 2016)

I don't get the whole autonomous car thing, if they still need a driver what's the point? It would be cheaper and less of a headache to just keep us. 
Where will they park these cars? Who will clean them? Maintenance? What does one of these cars cost to buy? What does it cost to insure one of these things? Get where I'm going with this? Why would they spend that kind of money? Just for the cool factor? I know they have a history of making bad business decisions but this would take the cake!


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

In 10 years Uber will be capable of pissing off even their autonomous car fleet.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

In 10 years Uber will be in the dustbin of history like ENRON.


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## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

goneubering said:


> He sounds fairly reasonable. I can see the possibility of SDCs taking a 70% to 80% market share in the next ten years.


Yea, and Uber won't be the only player


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

jgiun1 said:


> Yea, and Uber won't be the only player


I expect a bunch of players just like the auto industry at the beginning. Then we will see the inevitable winners and losers and industry consolidation.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

Automation has always reduced labor needs in the US industries. Self driving cars will reduce the number of Uber drivers in the US. In places like Mexico, they will still need more drivers as the business expands, just not here.


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## yankdog (Jul 19, 2016)

If Dara said that water is wet I would at least test the assertion in the shower to see if he is lying.


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## Igsfire (Sep 28, 2017)

actually that makes a little sense if the amount of millennials that does not buy a car drastically increases


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Laino said:


> In 10 years uber will be gone. Other companies are coming with 15% commission. Now is uber and lyft vs drivers. Soon there will be many more vs drivers and they will fight for us. The ceo or whatever he is trying to steer the sinking ship. Don't pay atention to the boy with the pink sunglasses.
> P.s. : Just farted really bad in the car and I'm going to pick a fare...


I see Waymo buying Lf


Jerseyguy72 said:


> I don't get the whole autonomous car thing, if they still need a driver what's the point? It would be cheaper and less of a headache to just keep us.
> Where will they park these cars? Who will clean them? Maintenance? What does one of these cars cost to buy? What does it cost to insure one of these things? Get where I'm going with this? Why would they spend that kind of money? Just for the cool factor? I know they have a history of making bad business decisions but this would take the cake!


They don't and won't need drivers. That's part of Dara's bald faced lie. He's trying to imply there will still be 30 percent of rides that SDC's won't be able to handle. Dara knows this is a lie. Dara needs to be called out on this and forced to explain himself.



tomatopaste said:


> I see Waymo buying Lf
> 
> They don't and won't need drivers. That's part of Dara's bald faced lie. He's trying to imply there will still be 30 percent of rides that SDC's won't be able to handle. Dara knows this is a lie. Dara needs to be called out on this and forced to explain himself.


Drivers need to start asking Uber tough questions. All Uber and Dara did was open themselves up to a ton of incoming. The jig is up. Even hardcore Uberers are going to start saying, hey, wait a minute, that makes no sense.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Merc7186 said:


> In ten years from now, I will likely give Uber 20% or 30% less care of their idiotic math than I do today.


Uber will probably not last that long.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> Pffffft!


^^^^^^^^^^BEST ANSWER^^^^^^^^^^
No further comment is necessary on this kind of nonsense.


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

With any luck the Uber crew will be doing Ten to Twenty for Fraud in ten years.


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## htboston (Feb 22, 2016)

Both new and old CEOs are liars. I rather trust Bill Cosby pouring my girlfriend a drink while I'm not there.


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## freeFromUber (Mar 1, 2016)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


I wonder what level of math he stopped learning at? I also wonder how many drivers he has personally spoken with. What an insulting and moronic thing to say....maybe he thought no one could hear him.



htboston said:


> Both new and old CEOs are liars. I rather trust Bill Cosby pouring my girlfriend a drink while I'm not there.


Now that's funny!



SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


Did this guy have a psychological exam before he was hired???


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## pomegranite112 (May 14, 2017)

Stats is a funny thing. Yeah the co will be bigger in 10 years but current u.s markets are alrdy almost saturated. People that need ridesharing alrdy have it. If you havent heard of uber by now, you're living in a cave. The growth will come from noname 3rd world countries where roads dont exist.

The current u.s markets will be hit if its succesful


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## Chris1973 (Oct 9, 2017)

The whole scheme depends on millenials doing predictable things, and AI being nearly perfect. Good luck with all of that!


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

You do your math, Dara, at this rate your "projected number of clients" is going to Lyft or another since you keep hiring: rapists, immigrants and people who could care less about your name brand's representation due to shitty wages, who will steal your clients for private work, who will scam your clients to the point of switching to other ride shares, who will hack your app to kingdom come, who will scam your own company for everything they are worth, who will sue you into oblivion for as long as lawyers exist.

You are dreaming if you think Uber will ever move up, it's a downward spiral from here on out, buck'0.


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## DeplorableDonald (Feb 16, 2017)

This is the same company that said 'lower rates means more earning for our partners' and that thought they'd lose $500/vehicle but lost $9000/vehicle on Xchange Lease right?

In Hollywood when they say 'trust me', loosely translated that means 'copulate yourself'. 

By the time SDCs are mainstream Uber will be far in my rearview mirror.

Screw a goat Dara


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

Remember the Race to Map the Human Genome? And how High those Bio-Tech Company's were? Those who do not learn from History are Condemned to repeat the same mistakes. Uber is a Ponzi Scheme. Watch. Just Watch.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Bad math, Dara dude.
If 70-80% of rides are autonomous, where is this "more demand for drivers"?

They think you are dumb.
Ignorance is truth.


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## george manousaridis (Jan 27, 2017)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


Indoctrination from our leader.


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## BAKAD (Feb 22, 2016)

The new CEO is on PR campaign trying to boost Uber's image for the 2019 IPO.

What the new CEO is missing is if Uber does not start treating drivers fairly, the 400,000+ of us can start raising hell in 2018 that could greatly affect Uber's IPO hopes.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

Someone tell this clown that unless the market for rideshare grows exponentially in 10 years, this idea will be backfire. Uber is simply trying to reduce the number of drivers. The supply of drivers almost always exceeds the demand for rides. Maybe he is seeing something in the future that will change that but I doubt it.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Wardell Curry said:


> Someone tell this clown that unless the market for rideshare grows exponentially in 10 years, this idea will be backfire. Uber is simply trying to reduce the number of drivers. The supply of drivers almost always exceeds the demand for rides. Maybe he is seeing something in the future that will change that but I doubt it.


The demand for rideshare will grow exponentially. But it will be self driving rideshare, the demand for human driven rideshare will dwindle to zero. Dara knows this, he's just trying to stop a mass exit of Uber drivers by giving them false hope as more and more Uber drivers start to read the writing on the wall.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

MoreTips said:


> I think Uber is hopping to get people to "let their cars drive themselves for Uber" Uber will trick driverless car owners into letting Uber borrow the car, while calling the owner a partner and offering a % of the ride profits*.


Could happen. After all, somebody has to continue cleaning up the puke left behind.


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## fwdmarch (Aug 28, 2017)

Uber will need more drivers, but they will all be in 3rd world countries.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Bad math, Dara dude.
> If 70-80% of rides are autonomous, where is this "more demand for drivers"?
> 
> They think you are dumb.
> Ignorance is truth.


The math suggest uber will probably be bankrupt and out of business in five years.He actually think this company going to be around in ten years.


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## freeFromUber (Mar 1, 2016)

fwdmarch said:


> Uber will need more drivers, but they will all be in 3rd world countries.


You're right. Dara's words are doubletalk...more drivers..just not in the US.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Beepbeep41 said:


> Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


They did with exchange leasing it did not work out to well for them.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

I would take that as a confession that this whole autonomous shtick was just smoke and mirrors to get more gullible investors to climb on board. 

Uber on, Comrades.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> Could happen. After all, somebody has to continue cleaning up the puke left behind.


Lol didn't even think of that end of it.


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## pegasimotors (Apr 13, 2017)

so Uber wants to go with driverless cars and yet they will need more drivers? I must of missed something.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Like SDC and flying cars this is just vapor. Move along and collect your pennies. If Uber actually charged a real rate and had real decent cars and drivers they might actually be profitable but nope.


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## Chris1973 (Oct 9, 2017)

Do your math! But teacher, where's the formula? May I see the numbers so I can do the calculations? They are in the book, read book! But sir, I have no book, there is no book?! Trust me, I am teacher, just DO YOUR MATH!


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

The new CEO is right about one thing. I don't want to be an employee so stop treating me like one. Stop using ratings as an evaluation tool to get rid of drivers. Stop sending me emails about my acceptance and cancellation rates.


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## wb6vpm (Mar 27, 2016)

Irishjohn831 said:


> No computer can compute and decipher an emergency situation like our brains.
> 
> There is no fight or flight with computers and those cars will crash left and right.





tomatopaste said:


> This was the hottest phone on the market before Apple launched the iphone.
> 
> https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...8219/81a7f6e9-df92-4f2a-8960-4ccf87a4c748.jpg
> 
> A year later you couldn't give them away. Uber is walking dead and Dara knows it. He was hired because he promised the board he could tell bald faced lies with a straight face.


I owned a couple of those!


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## Tihstae (Jan 31, 2017)

The Uber CEO is addressing drivers using four letter words. M-A-T-H has become the new F- You from Uber.

I know some other four letter words. U-B-E-R and now D-A-R-A.

Dear Dara,
Please stick your male member in your mother's poop chute.

Sincerely,
A driver that can do math.


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## Chris1973 (Oct 9, 2017)

KMANDERSON said:


> The math suggest uber will probably be bankrupt and out of business in five years.He actually think this company going to be around in ten years.


This isn't far from the truth. We are overdue for another recession, QE and low interest rates will only seal the dike for so long. The economic war with the Saudis over oil production will have to end soon and fuel prices will skyrocket. When Uber is forced to raise PAX rates due to fuel prices and low demand, the entire structure will collapse.

Low fuel prices, QE, and a relatively friendly environment for investors with a trillion dollars in VC Capital created the conditions for UberMonster to exist. Remove any or all of these factors and it's game over. I suspect some form of government bail out or buyout from Ford/GM maybe even amazon is just around the corner. You can't lose 3 billion dollars a year forever, especially when the economy takes an inevitable turn for the worst and fuel prices rise. Just my 2 cents.


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## POOLKiller (Oct 5, 2016)

I feel sorry for anyone driving for Fuber in 10 years. They will take 99% of the fare.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Chris1973 said:


> This isn't far from the truth. We are overdue for another recession, QE and low interest rates will only seal the dike for so long. The economic war with the Saudis over oil production will have to end soon and fuel prices will skyrocket. When Uber is forced to raise PAX rates due to fuel prices and low demand, the entire structure will collapse.
> 
> Low fuel prices, QE, and a relatively friendly environment for investors with a trillion dollars in VC Capital created the conditions for UberMonster to exist. Remove any or all of these factors and it's game over. I suspect some form of government bail out or buyout from Ford/GM maybe even amazon is just around the corner. You can't lose 3 billion dollars a year forever, especially when the economy takes an inevitable turn for the worst and fuel prices rise. Just my 2 cents.


And if more cities get sick of uber like London did.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

Chris1973 said:


> This isn't far from the truth. We are overdue for another recession, QE and low interest rates will only seal the dike for so long. The economic war with the Saudis over oil production will have to end soon and fuel prices will skyrocket. When Uber is forced to raise PAX rates due to fuel prices and low demand, the entire structure will collapse.
> 
> Low fuel prices, QE, and a relatively friendly environment for investors with a trillion dollars in VC Capital created the conditions for UberMonster to exist. Remove any or all of these factors and it's game over. I suspect some form of government bail out or buyout from Ford/GM maybe even amazon is just around the corner. You can't lose 3 billion dollars a year forever, especially when the economy takes an inevitable turn for the worst and fuel prices rise. Just my 2 cents.


WORD!!!


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Drivers not doing the math is the cornerstone of Uber's business model.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> Drivers not doing the math is the cornerstone of Uber's business model.


If people really did do the math, three quarters of all rideshare drivers would never have signed up in the first place.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


I did the MATH !

Much more profitable to Drive for Pizza Hut !


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Dara needs to be careful... If drivers do check their math they will surely stop driving for Uber!


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

A robot controlling a car owned by Uber would be more expensive on Uber than our sucker a**es making peanuts driving our own cars. So yeah we will be driving in ten years.


----------



## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

"Do the math" Good advise from the CEO because if every driver will do the math there will be no driver left to drive for Uber in 10 years


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

hahahh the dream of owning a fleet of self driving cars when their own uber navigation is virtually useless... I was been nice beyond useless!!! Unless that improves by about a million times passengers not going to be getting on them. The insurance cost per year per car going to be insane... Just a dozen accidents and death going to sink the whole company and no insurance company going to insure "self driving cars" at that point.

People often forget who design and program these self driving cars? Oh yes people and i've yet to meet a perfect person that doesn't make a mistake and it risky going bleeding edge since those that do dare might just bleed out. When people drive cars people just say human error when machine drive cars even if it isn't the machine fault that get into an accident the easy scapegoats always the machine. I see uber bankrupt in less than a decade.

Sometimes I really do think they have a bunch of monkeys in mansions making all the big calls. None of this is even remotely thought out... Unfortunately this is what happens when you live in lala land for too long. They got a good business model right now got a bunch of people willing to drive long hours using their own cars getting their own insurance and maintaining their own cars!

Which I have to say they still haven't even finish perfecting this business model yet got a way to go everyone knows that but to throw out what working for them and got them to this point to gamble all that away on a pipe dream... I guess that why they playing with investor money not their own. Not going to be surprise when the company does go under and they all walk away with billions smiling. They got their golden parachutes ready 

Seems like a pump and dump. That what everyone has to remember even if the company does go bankrupt they have already built in their own exit plans to get out of it very wealthy.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Beepbeep41 said:


> Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


It may well be a partnership deal with car manufacturers who are a little concerned about future car ownership laws.

Inner urban councils and government legislation will make it increasingly difficult and costly to own a car. On street parking may well be removed, inner urban apartments blocks are already being built with less than 1 car spot per apartment.

So the numbers of cars per household will drop, with urban populations increasing causing headaches for transport planners.

With networks like Uberpool and a abundant opportunity to subscribe your robot car to other point to point transport manufacturers can see a glimmer of hope. That is the fewer cars that are out there are utilised more and turned over much sooner than before. Keeping sales figures up when people can't afford them


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

I'll see it when I believe it right now You can still pick up lots of cheap second hand cars that are safe to drive. I guess for the people that like buying new shiny cars that their problem really. You are right about too many cars on the road it true big cars with mostly one person in them driving hogging up all that road space can really reduce the amount of cars on the road by at least a factor of 3.

Thing is people like owning cars and a lot of people are passionate about their cars so people that own cars going to keep owning cars. I'm not going to let anyone else that I don't know operate my car or ride in it hahah You seen buses and trains? All trashed basically as soon as it rolls off the line into service in the first day with people spraying, ruining the windows and whatever else people do that not their property! I'll ride in your nice self driving car though Sydney Uber hahah


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Don't worry by the time automated cars become widespread, companies will already be run by AI CEO's etc, so everyone will need to find a new job. That is, except for the AI developers who will still be needed, but only until the machines become advanced enough to run themselves, then Skynet takes over and the war with the machines begins.


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> Don't worry by the time automated cars become widespread, companies will already be run by AI CEO's etc, so everyone will need to find a new job. That is, except for the AI developers who will still be needed, but only until the machines become advanced enough to run themselves, then Skynet takes over and the war with the machines begins.


I choose robots over humans!


----------



## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> I choose robots over humans!


I choose death over life.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Yam Digger said:


> I choose death over life.


That's illegal in this country, suicide that is. Don't make a mistake.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

BAKAD said:


> The new CEO is on PR campaign trying to boost Uber's image for the 2019 IPO.
> 
> What the new CEO is missing is if Uber does not start treating drivers fairly, the 400,000+ of us can start raising hell in 2018 that could greatly affect Uber's IPO hopes.


^^^ This right here!


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

BAKAD said:


> the 400,000+ of us can start raising hell in 2018 that could greatly affect Uber's IPO hopes.


That's highly unlikely in my opinion. Drivers will have very little impact.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

goneubering said:


> That's highly unlikely in my opinion. Drivers will have very little impact.


Drivers could have a huge impact if they all realize there is no future in rideshare, and quit. Dara was simply trying to stop a mass stampede for the exits by lying.


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

exit to what? been homeless again? 
Hard work doing actual labor driving is the easy option as long as it easy and pays something be no shortage of people. Got more drivers then needed and never going to be a shortage of drivers until uber collapse if they do.

Works even better if more drivers quit because the prices would go up again to attract more drivers again and be more jobs for the current drivers that stay.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 2, 2017)

I think what he really wanted to say was "Uber plans to give away free rides for the next 10 years so of course we will need drivers to work for free after all their costs. If you are stupid enough to still want to drive uber in 10 years time, well we can't really help you".
I'm sure if Travis was asked the same question he would have answered it like that but Dara seems more measured so he had to be careful how he answered the question.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> I choose robots over humans!


Maybe our robot overlords won't be racist?

could be a good thing...


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> That's illegal in this country, suicide that is. Don't make a mistake.


Yeah his dead body might go to prison!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Rakos said:


> You remember when...
> 
> The Uber mantra was...
> 
> ...


It DOES mean more riders. But not riders we want, for the most part. And it certainly doesn't mean more PROFIT.



MoreTips said:


> You sir are absolutely correct. I would say there are 50/50 odds that Uber will exist in ten years.
> I think by then it will simply be a verb for late night show host to use when describing a failure or scam.
> 
> I think Uber is hopping to get people to "let their cars drive themselves for Uber" Uber will trick driverless car owners into letting Uber borrow the car, while calling the owner a partner and offering a % of the ride profits*.
> They will use the catch phrase like "let your car work for you".


The first time the car comes home with a nice slimy brown patch where the owner likes to sit (after all, no "drivers seat"anymore, right?) or he steps into vomit, or the car just smells like booze and ass--that will be the end of that.

Uber would never pay the owner enough to make it worthwhile to rent out their car. They'd try to pay as little as possible, just like they do now.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Immoralized said:


> exit to what? been homeless again?
> Hard work doing actual labor driving is the easy option as long as it easy and pays something be no shortage of people. Got more drivers then needed and never going to be a shortage of drivers until uber collapse if they do.
> 
> Works even better if more drivers quit because the prices would go up again to attract more drivers again and be more jobs for the current drivers that stay.


Human Uber drivers will not be able to compete with self driving Waymo mini vans. This will become clear in the next few months when Waymo officially begins their self driving taxi service that will compete directly with Uber drivers in Phoenix. They, Waymo, will have six hundred Chrysler Pacifica minivans to start. That's like adding two thousand full time Uber drivers in the Phoenix market overnight that will compete with current Uber drivers. How do you think that is going to affect current Uber drivers in Phoenix?


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> It may well be a partnership deal with car manufacturers who are a little concerned about future car ownership laws.
> 
> Inner urban councils and government legislation will make it increasingly difficult and costly to own a car. On street parking may well be removed, inner urban apartments blocks are already being built with less than 1 car spot per apartment.
> 
> ...


End Agenda 21.
Stand up for Individual Car Ownership RIGHTS !



tomatopaste said:


> Human Uber drivers will not be able to compete with self driving Waymo mini vans. This will become clear in the next few months when Waymo officially begins their self driving taxi service that will compete directly with Uber drivers in Phoenix. They, Waymo, will have six hundred Chrysler Pacifica minivans to start. That's like adding two thousand full time Uber drivers in the Phoenix market overnight that will compete with current Uber drivers. How do you think that is going to affect current Uber drivers in Phoenix?
> 
> View attachment 176564


I think Chrystler Pacifica " used" parts will be in abundance on Craigs List.

Just dont ask too many questions when buying.



UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> I choose robots over humans!


Traitor !


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> Human Uber drivers will not be able to compete with self driving Waymo mini vans. This will become clear in the next few months when Waymo officially begins their self driving taxi service that will compete directly with Uber drivers in Phoenix. They, Waymo, will have six hundred Chrysler Pacifica minivans to start. That's like adding two thousand full time Uber drivers in the Phoenix market overnight that will compete with current Uber drivers. How do you think that is going to affect current Uber drivers in Phoenix?
> 
> View attachment 176564


You must stand in front of a mirror each morning and feel you have NOTHING to offer a discerning rider who wishes to CHOOSE a human driven car.

I'd be a little more confident of your own driving and customer service abilities TP. Many of the folk here on UP.net actually like the gig, put a lot into it and get a lot out it.

Maybe your blinkered view of future point to point transport is based on a honest appraisal of what you see in the mirror. You can't drive, you have no customer service skills and people find you irritating after 2 miles.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> You must stand in front of a mirror each morning and feel you have NOTHING to offer a discerning rider who wishes to CHOOSE a human driven car.
> 
> I'd be a little more confident of your own driving and customer service abilities TP. Many of the folk here on UP.net actually like the gig, put a lot into it and get a lot out it.
> 
> Maybe your blinkered view of future point to point transport is based on a honest appraisal of what you see in the mirror. You can't drive, you have no customer service skills and people find you irritating after 2 miles.


The ROBOTS WILL KILL US ALL !


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> You must stand in front of a mirror each morning and feel you have NOTHING to offer a discerning rider who wishes to CHOOSE a human driven car.
> 
> I'd be a little more confident of your own driving and customer service abilities TP. Many of the folk here on UP.net actually like the gig, put a lot into it and get a lot out it.
> 
> Maybe your blinkered view of future point to point transport is based on a honest appraisal of what you see in the mirror. You can't drive, you have no customer service skills and people find you irritating after 2 miles.


This video put out by Waymo was the equivalent of a military parade. The image at the end of the video might as well have been of 600 Abrams tanks.

http://www.janes.com/images/assets/265/66265/1687067_-_main.jpg






Uber drivers in Phoenix will not survive the battle. Many will retreat to Tucson and Las Vegas. Those that choose to stay and fight will be blown off the battlefield. I could sugarcoat it, but what good would that do in the end?


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> The ROBOTS WILL KILL US ALL !


There is strong evidence (apart from Hollywood blockbusters) that AI will give robots a singular "mission" that ultimately motivates them destroy anything that gets in the way of perfection.

Elon Musk has a very concerned view of AI, funding research hoping to avoid catastrophe https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...billion-dollar-crusade-to-stop-ai-space-x/amp

Also a huge concern is there is NO SUCH THING AS CYBER SECURITY. It's a furphy. A kid one day will hack into a car with a smartphone and drive it headlong into a lake just for laughs.

It's been done to Chyrsler - the VERY company that Waymo has trusted for its autonomous platform. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...rn-high-speed-steering-acceleration-hacks/amp

Not very wise



tomatopaste said:


> This video put of by Waymo was the equivalent of a military parade. The image at the end of the video might as well have been of 600 Abrams tanks.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/images/assets/265/66265/1687067_-_main.jpg
> 
> ...


Oh dear dear you!

Not having a plural view of life's choices is so so boring. There is more than one way of masturbating. Give it a try TP!


----------



## UberwithStuber (Jan 18, 2017)

jaystonepk said:


> If autonomous vehicles have to follow the same atrocious partner GPS it'll be 1-2 weeks before Uber pax abandon the whole system and just start walking everywhere.


How can pax tell a driverless car, "Hey bud, you're heading in the wrong direction..." 
Then when they complain to Fuber, then at least no driver will be losing a fare, just them.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

UberwithStuber said:


> How can pax tell a driverless car, "Hey bud, you're heading in the wrong direction..."
> Then when they complain to Fuber, then at least no driver will be losing a fare, just them.


By pushing the help button.
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Waymo_Pacifica_Interior_ButtonPod.png



Sydney Uber said:


> There is strong evidence (apart from Hollywood blockbusters) that AI will give robots a singular "mission" that ultimately motivates them destroy anything that gets in the way of perfection.
> 
> Elon Musk has a very concerned view of AI, funding research hoping to avoid catastrophe https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...billion-dollar-crusade-to-stop-ai-space-x/amp
> 
> ...


I believe the term you're looking for is "deflection."



tomatopaste said:


> By pushing the help button.
> https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Waymo_Pacifica_Interior_ButtonPod.png
> 
> I believe the term you're looking for is "deflection."


And by 'deflection' I mean you choose to imply the only reason I'm pointing all this out is because of my lack of skills instead of addressing the real question, how is an Uber driver in Phoenix going to be able to compete with a self driving Waymo minivan? You're deflecting because the answer is: he can't.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> I'd be a little more confident of your own driving and customer service abilities TP. Many of the folk here on UP.net actually like the gig, put a lot into it and get a lot out it.


*VW spending nearly $85 billion total on electric and self-driving cars*
*https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/17/vw-spending-85-billion-total-evs-electric-self-driving-cars/*

Wow, it almost seems like VW, GM, Google and the rest don't care if Uber drivers like the gig or not.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> *VW spending nearly $85 billion total on electric and self-driving cars*
> *https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/17/vw-spending-85-billion-total-evs-electric-self-driving-cars/*
> 
> Wow, it almost seems like VW, GM, Google and the rest don't care if Uber drivers like the gig or not.


You Gleefully dance at the rise of the Transhumanist Satanists.

Your master will crush you into Tomato paste for being such a Traitor to the Human Race.


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

How about slippery weather like snow? 
The cars will not be able to drive correctly. The sensors will also get covered by the snow. 
How about the drunks that trash the vehicle? Will the car sense that? Or will it be dirtier than a bus?
Self driving cars are just not like a real person.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> How about slippery weather like snow?
> The cars will not be able to drive correctly. The sensors will also get covered by the snow.
> How about the drunks that trash the vehicle? Will the car sense that? Or will it be dirtier than a bus?
> Self driving cars are just not like a real person.


They will be Filthy !
Drivers are the police.
Imagine driverless cars at bar close time !

Drunk students will be surfing on the roofs. 16 passengers in an x.
Rolling cesspools of puke !

Condemn these biohazards before this plague & pestilence is unleashed upon the public !


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> You Gleefully dance at the rise of the Transhumanist Satanists.
> 
> Your master will crush you into Tomato paste for being such a Traitor to the Human Race.


I don't say things like 'Transhumanist Satanists' because it's a non statement. I inform myself on what's about to happen so I can make informed decisions. Blaming the "Transhumanist Satanists' for your poor life choices won't change the fact that they're poor choices. You'll still suffer the consequences of those poor choices.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> I don't say things like 'Transhumanist Satanists' because it's a non statement. I inform myself on what's about to happen so I can make informed decisions. Blaming the "Transhumanist Satanists' for your poor life choices won't change the fact that they're poor choices. You'll still suffer the consequences of those poor choices.


You are an " ARCHITECT OF THE THRONE OF SATAN ON EARTH"!

God gave man FREE WILL.
A war in Heaven was fought over mans gift.
Now you give yours away for shiney things.

Shiney Robots will be YOUR MASTER.



tomatopaste said:


> I don't say things like 'Transhumanist Satanists' because it's a non statement. I inform myself on what's about to happen so I can make informed decisions. Blaming the "Transhumanist Satanists' for your poor life choices won't change the fact that they're poor choices. You'll still suffer the consequences of those poor choices.


You are a willful victim.
Do not draw others into the abyss

Being a " Leader" of a flock led to slaughter only enables you to see the blade first.
You think it is innovation.
It is your demise.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> You are an " ARCHITECT OF THE THRONE OF SATAN ON EARTH"!
> 
> God gave man FREE WILL.
> A war in Heaven was fought over mans gift.
> ...


Blah blah blah. If you were alive when cars were introduced you would have said the same thing. Should we bring back the horse and buggy on public roads?


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Read U.N. Agenda 21.
Especially the section pertaining to personal vehicles.
The blueprint was published in the 70's.
Next comes elimination of personal property ownership.
Soviet style shoebox housing for all !
You promote this !
Read the plans.
This is ALL part of the implimentation.

Sacrifice of Freedom.

You think this is good ?



tomatopaste said:


> Blah blah blah. If you were alive when cars were introduced you would have said the same thing. Should we bring back the horse and buggy on public roads?


I told you what to research.
If you fail to learn, that is on you.

GLOBAL POLICY.

END OF OUR SOVEREIGN NATION !

You promote this !

I will keep my RIGHT TO FREE WILL.


----------



## Rex8976 (Nov 11, 2014)

It's cute that Dara The K believes Uber will be around in ONE year, let alone 10!


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Read U.N. Agenda 21.
> Especially the section pertaining to personal vehicles.
> The blueprint was published in the 70's.
> Next comes elimination of personal property ownership.
> ...


You and Jockey knock yourselves out with the conspiracy theory nutjobery. Most people with real lives simply don't have the time.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Servants of Darkness seldom understand they are tools.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> You and Jockey knock yourselves out with the conspiracy theory nutjobery. Most people with real lives simply don't have the time.


Read.
No theory.
In print.
For decades.
You refuse to look for yourself ?
Read what is in print.
Go to the United Nations Website.

This is Real.

Educate yourself.

The rules and laws of God & Man require Free Will must be given.
It can not be taken.

Know who you assign your Power of Free Will to.

All is open.

Read.

The Law is as old as time.
Know it.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Servants of Darkness seldom understand they are tools.


He promotes a foundation to a future that is not his.
Yet refuses to read of which it entails.
How does one become so ?

" a wise man plants trees who's shade he knows he will never enjoy".

He knows not of the seed he sows.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Uber drivers do your math. That's the funniest thread title I've ever seen in UP.net. The deductive reasoning of the average Uber driver already is "lower rates = more money". So I guess "more drivers = more fares" isn't too much of a stretch.


the fact most uber drivers can't math is why they are happy thinking their only cost is gas. Uber thrives on their ignorance; the last thing uber actually wants is for its drivers to become enlightened.



Irishjohn831 said:


> Autonomous cars are not happening without someone b hind the wheel as a default.
> 
> No computer can compute and decipher an emergency situation like our brains.
> 
> ...


It will happen. You can go onto YouTube and look at production teslas currently on the road driving themselves. There is at least one excellent montage of a tesla on multiple occasions avoiding accidents autonomously.

A computer an make calculations infinitely quicker than you can. Already in most brands of vehicle it is possible to have a car automatically brake before you even know what is going on.

Timeline on full autonomy is not clear but the idea that it will never happen can't be taken seriously.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> How about slippery weather like snow?
> The cars will not be able to drive correctly. The sensors will also get covered by the snow.
> How about the drunks that trash the vehicle? Will the car sense that? Or will it be dirtier than a bus?
> Self driving cars are just not like a real person.


As those who live in urban society are slowly engineered to live without owning a vehicle, (impossible parking, congestion taxes, registration costs) the reliance on cheap point to point transport will grow.

There's going to be facial recognition cameras to identify the account holder enters the vehicle, and all those riding with them. Any Tom-foolery will be recorded, and uploaded to the relevant authorities.

Governments are salivating at the information these vehicles will provide them, mapping the movements of people without them knowing, passively scanning sidewalks for wanted felons, then being tasked to observe and follow till the authorities arrive.

The concerns you raise are sorted with sensors, cameras and the threat that damage caused will see a person's travel rights removed from ALL public transport.

It's the mapping of individual's progress along with the timeline generated by your phone that is more of an issue.



tomatopaste said:


> *VW spending nearly $85 billion total on electric and self-driving cars*
> *https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/17/vw-spending-85-billion-total-evs-electric-self-driving-cars/*
> 
> Wow, it almost seems like VW, GM, Google and the rest don't care if Uber drivers like the gig or not.


You still don't get it.

People have choices. People make choices.

It doesn't matter how many robot cars are out there if a driven car represents a better choice for the transport scenario required.

What you advocate is a sort of socialist capitalism. If these huge multinational companies flood the market with what THEY and Tomatopaste believe is a superior form of transport, then people MUST travel that way.

That isn't going to happen.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Servants of Darkness seldom understand they are tools.


I think the "UP community" should relocate to an Amish community in PA and grow daffodils.
View attachment 176684
View attachment 176684




tohunt4me said:


> Read U.N. Agenda 21.
> Especially the section pertaining to personal vehicles.
> The blueprint was published in the 70's.
> Next comes elimination of personal property ownership.
> ...





Sydney Uber said:


> As those who live in urban society are slowly engineered to live without owning a vehicle, (impossible parking, congestion taxes, registration costs) the reliance on cheap point to point transport will grow.
> 
> There's going to be facial recognition cameras to identify the account holder enters the vehicle, and all those riding with them. Any Tom-foolery will be recorded, and uploaded to the relevant authorities.
> 
> ...


Do people have the choice to buy a BetaMax or take their horse and buggy on I-5?

Nonsense, let the market decide. The people chose automobiles over horse and buggies. They will also choose self driving cars over human driven cars. You can't buy what the market doesn't offer.



tohunt4me said:


> Read.
> No theory.
> In print.
> For decades.
> ...


https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/9ad32f6f-d890-4580-acd7-4aeecd6f97b2


----------



## JBinPenfield (Sep 14, 2017)

Autonomous vehicles will completely take over for human rideshare drivers when they can:

Intelligently figure out where a passenger *really* is when they put their pin in some stupid location or when the GPS tells them to go to some stupid location.
Detect and clean up puke.
Detect and clean up food, wrappers, and other such garbage.
Prevent kids from vandalizing the seats, or otherwise breaking stuff or stealing stuff for the hell of it.
Prevent people from stealing the entertainment equipment.
Detect that the heavy object in the back seat is not a human being, but rather a bomb placed there by a terrorist.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> There is strong evidence (apart from Hollywood blockbusters) that AI will give robots a singular "mission" that ultimately motivates them destroy anything that gets in the way of perfection.
> 
> Elon Musk has a very concerned view of AI, funding research hoping to avoid catastrophe https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...billion-dollar-crusade-to-stop-ai-space-x/amp
> 
> ...


Tesla will be **** up before 2019. Tesla was only a viable company with a crony capitalist in the White House like Obama.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/17/bob-lutz-theres-no-secret-sauce-at-tesla.html


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

JBinPenfield said:


> Autonomous vehicles will completely take over for human rideshare drivers when they can:
> 
> Intelligently figure out where a passenger *really* is when they put their pin in some stupid location or when the GPS tells them to go to some stupid location.
> Detect and clean up puke.
> ...


Like the self checkouts where there would be one person overlooking like 8 machines, it will be like that with cars.
To be honest we should welcome these autonomous vehicles and change with system and not act like the way the taxi cab drivers acted with uber. 
Change is good


----------



## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> This video put out by Waymo was the equivalent of a military parade. The image at the end of the video might as well have been of 600 Abrams tanks.


And just like any military parade, it was very well planned and staged to make sure nothing embarrassing happens in front of all the spectators.

On the actual battlefield, though, those same Abrams tanks get obliterated by Russian, Iranian and Chinese anti-tank missiles.


tohunt4me said:


> You Gleefully dance at the rise of the Transhumanist Satanists.
> 
> *Your master will crush you into Tomato paste for being such a Traitor to the Human Race.*


YES! TELL HIM!


UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> How about slippery weather like snow?
> The cars will not be able to drive correctly. The sensors will also get covered by the snow.


Up here in Canada, we have this wonderful thing on our roads in winter called:

BLACK ICE

I would so love to see how these no driver vehicles will handle _that_. Muhuhuhohahaha!


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Yam Digger said:


> On the actual battlefield, though, those same Abrams tanks get obliterated by Russian, Iranian and Chinese anti-tank missiles.


Yeah, Abrams tanks got destroyed in desert storm. Amy Desert Storm vets like to set Yam Digger straight?



Yam Digger said:


> And just like any military parade, it was very well planned and staged to make sure nothing embarrassing happens in front of all the spectators.
> 
> On the actual battlefield, though, those same Abrams tanks get obliterated by Russian, Iranian and Chinese anti-tank missiles.
> 
> ...


First of all, why do you Canadians put black ice your roads in the first place? Second, SDC's do 24 trillion calculations per second. They sense within a fraction of a second which tire is starting to skid, they will handle winters far better than humans.



JBinPenfield said:


> Autonomous vehicles will completely take over for human rideshare drivers when they can:
> 
> Intelligently figure out where a passenger *really* is when they put their pin in some stupid location or when the GPS tells them to go to some stupid location.
> Detect and clean up puke.
> ...


So we agree, SDC's are poised to take over for human rideshare drivers now.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla will be **** up before 2019. Tesla was only a viable company with a crony capitalist in the White House like Obama.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/17/bob-lutz-theres-no-secret-sauce-at-tesla.html


Ahh! Spoken like someone who professes the domination of one societal choice over another, with no acceptance of personal choice.

I'm not sure if you have heard the Aussie saying that you've got your head up your arse. You should come out of that little warm cavern you've found yourself in and smell the roses.

Tesla won't fail, it's been clever in partnering with MAJOR established businesses for various elements of its business.

The "Tesla" 139megawatt battery that is being installed here in South Australia is a consortium of companies - Share the spoils, get access to outside expertise and mitigate risk. But Tesla is always targeted as the fall guy when the game gets tough. Musk and his management team have gotten through worst situations.

Tesla Batteries are mainly Panasonic technology.

2008, NO funding was forthcoming post GFC, Tesla was weeks from folding. Toyota avail their under-utilised production line in Fremont Cal, and their logistics expertise. Mercedes Benz throws Tesla the keys to its parts warehouse. Any Mercedes E Class owner who gets behind the wheel of a Tesla is immediately struck by all the shared parts staring at them. The only failure I've had on my Tesla has been an a electric window - when the technician pulled it out he showed me the MB part number.

Share the spoils - mitigate risk. Tesla is a sum of many diverse parts. Like in ANY good team when one area falters there is plenty of backup.


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Yam Digger said:


> Up here in Canada, we have this wonderful thing on our roads in winter called:
> 
> BLACK ICE
> 
> I would so love to see how these no driver vehicles will handle _that_. Muhuhuhohahaha!


Same here in Michigan. That's why I asked lol. That ice is no joke. Or during huge blizzards with 6+ inches of snow. The robots cannot be on the road. At least not yet. I have done some searching on youtube and I found ford are trying to get the self driving cars to drive on the snow.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Ahh! Spoken like someone who professes the domination of one societal choice over another, with no acceptance of personal choice.
> 
> I'm not sure if you have heard the Aussie saying that you've got your head up your arse. You should come out of that little warm cavern you've found yourself in and smell the roses.
> 
> ...


I like Musk and Kalanick's moxie. Their can-do attitude is a must for bringing new ideas to market. However both of their business models are fatally flawed and both companies will fail.



Sydney Uber said:


> Share the spoils - mitigate risk. Tesla is a sum of many diverse parts. Like in ANY good team when one area falters there is plenty of backup.


Lutz said it better: "never mind that, look at the battery plant. Then it's, well never mind that, we're going to go to mars. Then it's never mind that we're going to tunnel under Los Angeles." Tesla is 90 percent hype.



Sydney Uber said:


> Tesla won't fail, it's been clever in partnering with MAJOR established businesses for various elements of its business.


Tesla and Uber are both Ponzi schemes. Neither have ever produced a profitable product. At some point investors stop dumping in cash and they both go **** up.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> I like Musk and Kalanick's moxie. Their can-do attitude is a must for bringing new ideas to market. However both of their business models are fatally flawed and both companies will fail.
> 
> Lutz said it better: "never mind that, look at the battery plant. Then it's, well never mind that, we're going to go to mars. Then it's never mind that we're going to tunnel under Los Angeles." Tesla is 90 percent hype.
> 
> Tesla and Uber are both Ponzi schemes. Neither have ever produced a profitable product. At some point investors stop dumping in cash and they both go **** up.


Kalanick's ego and arrogance has seen him removed. His two prior business efforts ended with a huge law suit that saw him fold, then the IRS got him, and once again he folds. Musk sells PayPal with his co-founder and persues his lifelong ambition of electrifying transportation

Lutz is a has been. He Can't shake the idea that a car company should only have transportation products in their catalogue. Space X in collaboration with partners is a success

Tesla and Uber are both Ponzi schemes. Neither have ever produced a profitable product. At some point investors stop dumping in cash and they both go **** up.

Uber is a one trick pony, with technology that can be easily duplicated, and it's own legacy issues

Tesla's strengths are in its partnerships and strong Government support for its Gigafactory. It won't be allowed to fail by its partners


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla will be **** up before 2019.
> 
> Tesla was only a viable company with a crony capitalist in the White House like Obama.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/17/bob-lutz-theres-no-secret-sauce-at-tesla.html


Hahahahahahaha!! Then you must be shorting Tesla stock.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Kalanick's ego and arrogance has seen him removed. His two prior business efforts ended with a huge law suit that saw him fold, then the IRS got him, and once again he folds. Musk sells PayPal with his co-founder and persues his lifelong ambition of electrifying transportation
> 
> Lutz is a has been. He Can't shake the idea that a car company should only have transportation products in their catalogue. Space X in collaboration with partners is a success
> 
> ...


You mean like Solyndra was not allowed to fail? Only the first 200,000 electric cars from any one manufacturer receive the government rebate. What happens when the 35k model 3 is now 45k?


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> You mean like Solyndra was not allowed to fail? Only the fist 200,000 electric cars from any one manufacturer receive the government rebate. What happens when the 35k model 3 is now 45k?


Solyndra was a stand-alone company that falsified the existence of huge contracts to secure the government loan guarantees.

In fact some of the stuff they got up to is VERY similar to our post GFC splurge of taxpayer funds which was taken advantage of by unscrupulous solar and home insulation services.

Tesla has something BETTER than government rebates. It has the $1300 deposits off over 450,000 customers. I know of a State Government department here that has ordered 10 model 3s, knowing they want be here until 2019. The Government of Nevada will support Tesla with their fleet purchases.

Ive looked at the other current all electric vehicles in the Model 3 market space. And they all have just a fraction of the range of a 3, take longer to recharge, and don't have the upgradeability that the 3 has. These cars may be 5k-10k cheaper than the X, but people do recognise a better car and have been happy to put down their deposits and wait for the 3. It is a compelling car to own.

Meanwhile other manufacturers EVs can be seen sitting in holding yards, clogging up inventories, and ultimately being discounted to b moved.

TP, what is a good despcription of a company holding over $500,000,000 in deposits on one of its products? Then do the sums for the Tesla roofs, those deposits and the revenues that will generate. Once the current problems are sorted and output at the Gigafactory finally ramps up, Tesla will fly.


----------



## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

Monkchoi said:


> In a nutshell, in 10 yrs I'll be flipping the finger to a majority of autonomous cars during a road rage? Kinda takes the rage out of road rage.


I can just see it in traffic, cars cutting in line, forcing the driverless cars to slow down, more and more.... I cant wait to cut off the first autonomous car I see.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Solyndra was a stand-alone company that falsified the existence of huge contracts to secure the government loan guarantees.
> 
> In fact some of the stuff they got up to is VERY similar to our post GFC splurge of taxpayer funds which was taken advantage of by unscrupulous solar and home insulation services.
> 
> ...


Tesla has $1,300 deposits from 450,000 customers (suckers) on vapor ware. There is class action lawsuit against Tesla for selling S customers an 8k fully autonomous package that will never materialize.

The Chevy Bolt is a better car than the Model 3, not as sexy, but it's a real car with; longer range, larger cargo space and fully autonomous self driving is here now. GM will launch its Uber killering self driving taxi service based on the Bolt within 6 months. Tesla can't even produce the freakin' car.



kcdrvr15 said:


> I can just see it in traffic, cars cutting in line, forcing the driverless cars to slow down, more and more.... I cant wait to cut off the first autonomous car I see.


I can't wait for the cop to pull you over for cutting off the autonomous car with video evidence. Gonna be fun, that I can tell you.


----------



## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> I can't wait for the cop to pull you over for cutting off the autonomous car with video evidence. Gonna be fun, that I can tell you.


And you really think there's enough officers, courts and jails to police this when EVERYBODY is doing it.

By the way: I've got this really nice bridge down the road that I'm selling. Dirt cheap.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Yam Digger said:


> And you really think there's enough officers, courts and jails to police this when EVERYBODY is doing it.
> 
> By the way: I've got this really nice bridge down the road that I'm selling. Dirt cheap.


Everybody won't be doing it. And the few idiots that do do it, will only do it once, after paying the 500 dollar ticket.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Yam Digger said:


> And you really think there's enough officers, courts and jails to police this when EVERYBODY is doing it.
> 
> By the way: I've got this really nice bridge down the road that I'm selling. Dirt cheap.


Unfortunately there is a commercial and societal control imperative for Governments to pass laws and protect robot cars.

With facial and number plate recognition HD cameras both inside and out these new Robot cars will simply upload events that causes evasive action to be taken. (my Tesla has 7 cameras outside facial rec not activated as yet, not sure about no plate recognition - that's just a software update anyways ), there is 360deg coverage.

Once somebody try's to run a robot car off the road the event in full HD is uploaded to closest Highway Patrol centre. They can choose to send officers to wait for you at home, or "task" other robots to report the coordinate of your number plate.

If it's something more serious that the Police are after someone for, then they can task ALL the robots to upload ANY sighting of the number plate in the area. With established military drone software, the robots can be tasked to search, observe and report locations of the person or car they are after.

If the target makes a radical change of direction, These robots will skilfully "handover" the primary observation point to other robots that are harnessed for the mission. Tracking the target on parrallel roads and positioning other in front.

All this activity away from rendering "rideshare" services will be handsomely rewarded by the Government seeking ways of streamlining policing and lowering costs.



tomatopaste said:


> Everybody won't be doing it. And the few idiots that do do it, will only do it once, after paying the 500 dollar ticket.


I believe Police agencies will go in harder with new laws to protect their Robot buddies.

I wouldn't be surprised if a driver caught doing something deliberately and repeatedly to cause a SDC damage would LOSE THEIR DRIVING RIGHTS, and for a period probably become a really good CUSTOMER of a SDCs!

Whereas anyone found vandalising the cars will simply lose their access rights and have to catch the bus.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> TP, what is a good despcription of a company holding over $500,000,000 in deposits on one of its products?


Fraud?



Sydney Uber said:


> Then do the sums for the Tesla roofs, those deposits and the revenues that will generate


I came up with a grand total of zero. And a huge number of lawsuits.

*Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is A Bad Buy*
*https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidl...ion-before-the-tesla-solar-roof/#34fa5bbc19df*

In much the same way, Tesla is misleading the public by comparing their Solar Roof to tile and slate roofs, rather than to solar energy in its many forms. As you will see, a real comparison is not flattering to Tesla.

The Tesla Solar Roof costs $55,600 installed
The Federal Tax Credit reduces the installed cost by $14,200
The net cost of the Solar Roof after the tax credit is $ 41,400
The total value of the solar energy generated over 30 years with 8 kW of power is $ 43,100
This means *the total financial benefits over the 30-year useful life of the Tesla roof-integrated solar energy system is $1,700.*


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## AvengingxxAngel (Jan 5, 2017)

Uber Eats lol


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

ABC123DEF said:


> ^^^ This right here!


I thought the IPO would come in 2015. MeThinks the numbers are so bad that the investment community may laugh at a 65billion dollar valuation.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> Fraud?
> 
> I came up with a grand total of zero. And a huge number of lawsuits.
> 
> ...


At the moment my home power bill is between $1100 - $1250 per quarter and regularly rising because of a constricting of power supply here in OZ. Many old, dirty coal fire stations have been shut down. In there place Solar and wind farms with an output equaling about 50% of the decommissioned generators.

Utility companies don't get the Govt support and subsidies to build new "clean" coal generators or better "dispatchable" gas fired plants as they do for wind and solar "farms". So we have a problem here in OZ with whole cities suffering brown outs and shortages.

I'm hoping to get a Tesla roof through a car sales referral program they have in place. But even without it, if I lost my current "honeymoon" deal with my power company who provides me with UNLIMITED charging of my EV for $1.00 PER DAY, I would do the sums carefully and see if a Tesla Roof specced out to provide 100kW+ per day (with batteries) would cost.

Currently using 45-50kW for the house per day and a little more per day for the car.

If I have 2 Tesla's (planned for 2019) and lose the cheap home EV power deal I'd need to look at all options. The more one uses of electricty the greater the benefits.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> I thought the IPO would come in 2015. MeThinks the numbers are so bad that the investment community may laugh at a 65billion dollar valuation.


F.Y.I.- Uber has been devalued to $50 or $52 billion.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> F.Y.I.- Uber has been devalued to $50 or $52 billion.


Ha! I missed that little development! Thanks for the update.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> At the moment my home power bill is between $1100 - $1250 per quarter and regularly rising because of a constricting of power supply here in OZ. Many old, dirty coal fire stations have been shut down. In there place Solar and wind farms with an output equaling about 50% of the decommissioned generators.
> 
> Utility companies don't get the Govt support and subsidies to build new "clean" coal generators or better "dispatchable" gas fired plants as they do for wind and solar "farms". So we have a problem here in OZ with whole cities suffering brown outs and shortages.
> 
> ...


Solar will never be the answer to the planet's energy needs. The energy is simply too diffuse. The answer is Thorium. Thorium nuclear reactors can supply the planet's energy needs forever. There is no scientific breakthrough needed and at some point humanity is going to pull its collective head out and go nuclear.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


Perhaps they are realizing that the very reason taxis are so big and bulky is due to the astonishing wear and tear visited upon regular automobiles! That the dirty tackiness of taxis is due, in fact, to disrespectful passengers!!! That simply driving an empty car up to a group of people will not stop them from cramming 10 people into that car - otherwise, what would it do? That the GPS apps are faulty ALL THE TIME and it takes the reasoning power of a human to suss that out (Oh, a shopping center and a business that is situated toward the back and the app takes you to a street behind it? A street that has a barrier wall between the shopping center and the residential neighborhood? lol!) That the driverless car won't be able to punch in a gate code for the wealthy neighborhoods, so I guess they expect these fancy people to hoof it out to the gate. This business is so poorly thought out that it desperately relies upon naive people to keep signing up, but they are coming to a point where nearly everyone knows someone who has been screwed by this system and they will then have to ... PAY UP! They will have to charge a higher fee and pay drivers what they are worth. (I can dream)


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> Solar will never be the answer to the planet's energy needs. The energy is simply too diffuse. The answer is Thorium. Thorium nuclear reactors can supply the planet's energy needs forever. There is no scientific breakthrough needed and at some point humanity is going to pull its collective head out and go nuclear.


Agree, thorium has a radioactive half-life of about 9 years if I recall correctly, but is a little harder to set off into action.

Just looked it up in Wikipeepee, Australia has over 19% of the earth's Thorium, the largest deposits of Uranium and we don't even have one Nuclear power reactor to generate clean cheap power. Weak-knee Politicians.



melusine3 said:


> Perhaps they are realizing that the very reason taxis are so big and bulky is due to the astonishing wear and tear visited upon regular automobiles! That the dirty tackiness of taxis is due, in fact, to disrespectful passengers!!! That simply driving an empty car up to a group of people will not stop them from cramming 10 people into that car - otherwise, what would it do? That the GPS apps are faulty ALL THE TIME and it takes the reasoning power of a human to suss that out (Oh, a shopping center and a business that is situated toward the back and the app takes you to a street behind it? A street that has a barrier wall between the shopping center and the residential neighborhood? lol!) That the driverless car won't be able to punch in a gate code for the wealthy neighborhoods, so I guess they expect these fancy people to hoof it out to the gate. This business is so poorly thought out that it desperately relies upon naive people to keep signing up, but they are coming to a point where nearly everyone knows someone who has been screwed by this system and they will then have to ... PAY UP! They will have to charge a higher fee and pay drivers what they are worth. (I can dream)


All the human "work-arounds" that a Cab/UBER driver have to work out to effectively serve ignorant passengers is endless.

The sad thing is, I reckon people will cut Robots more slack to accommodate their lack of human comprehension. And besides, they will be be able to get to the Pin-drop, and if the passengers aren't there within a period, they'll be charged a cancellation fee.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> Perhaps they are realizing that the very reason taxis are so big and bulky is due to the astonishing wear and tear visited upon regular automobiles! That the dirty tackiness of taxis is due, in fact, to disrespectful passengers!!! That simply driving an empty car up to a group of people will not stop them from cramming 10 people into that car - otherwise, what would it do? That the GPS apps are faulty ALL THE TIME and it takes the reasoning power of a human to suss that out (Oh, a shopping center and a business that is situated toward the back and the app takes you to a street behind it? A street that has a barrier wall between the shopping center and the residential neighborhood? lol!) That the driverless car won't be able to punch in a gate code for the wealthy neighborhoods, so I guess they expect these fancy people to hoof it out to the gate. This business is so poorly thought out that it desperately relies upon naive people to keep signing up, but they are coming to a point where nearly everyone knows someone who has been screwed by this system and they will then have to ... PAY UP! They will have to charge a higher fee and pay drivers what they are worth. (I can dream)


_That simply driving an empty car up to a group of people will not stop them from cramming 10 people into that car - otherwise, what would it do?_

answer: When the car pulls up and the cameras see ten people waiting, a voice from the command center will tell them they can only take 5. If they demand all ten ride then the doors never unlock. If they say ok and then cram in 10 pax, then the car doesn't move and the pax with the account gets kicked off the system.

_That the GPS apps are faulty ALL THE TIME and it takes the reasoning power of a human to suss that out (Oh, a shopping center and a business that is situated toward the back and the app takes you to a street behind it? A street that has a barrier wall between the shopping center and the residential neighborhood? Lol!)_

Answer: SDC's don't use GPS, their onboard 3D maps are accurate to within 4 inches. What happens now in this situation? The rider calls the driver or vice versa, the same will happen with SDC's but the human will be in the command center instead of in the car. What happens the next time a different driver comes to this same location? They have to start from scratch. The SDC will have it programmed into the software and the delay is avoided.

_That the driverless car won't be able to punch in a gate code for the wealthy neighborhoods._

answer: Yeah the technology to have the customer open the gate on his end is at least ten years away.

_This business is so poorly thought out that it desperately relies upon naive people to keep signing up._

answer: These list of horribles are so worn out and ridiculous, but they do make us laugh, so there's that.


----------



## AvengingxxAngel (Jan 5, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> I would do the sums carefully and see if a Tesla Roof specced out to provide 100kW+ per day (with batteries) would cost.


I think someone here mentioned it would cost around $55,000 U.S dollars minus a $14,000 government incentive of some sort. I guess that means it would be way more expensive in Australia


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

AvengingxxAngel said:


> I think someone here mentioned it would cost around $55,000 U.S dollars minus a $14,000 government incentive of some sort. I guess that means it would be way more expensive in Australia


Yes, I expect it to be. But if I'm going through more power, I get a better return on capital.

I'll have done 48,000kms in my Model X by Thursday. 7 months of ownership and $6000 worth of diesel I haven't had to buy. Replaced by $213.00 power bill (and once off $750 bill to fit the 2nd smart meter and home charger).

If I was like 95% of Tesla owners who just pose in them on the weekends I couldn't afford it.

If the roof and 4-5 Power Walls are powering a house and 2 EVs, a discount through the Tesla referral system, then I imagine the sums would be much better.

But I'm not there yet! Give me 1.5 - 2 years.


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

Beepbeep41 said:


> Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


Uber does not want to own autonomous vehicles what they want is for people to buy autonomous vehicles and let uber use them while they're not using it


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## AvengingxxAngel (Jan 5, 2017)

Uber is likely to get people to invest in self driving cars for say $350 a week and guarantee a return of $1200 a week making the total $1550 a week.
All costs included, and a commitment period of 5 years, just a thought.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


Most drivers don't want to be employees.



CarterPeerless said:


> So if you assume they are doing 5 million rides per day (older stat - probably higher now). In 10 years, they expect their volume serviced only by autonomous vehicles to be between 35 million and 80 million rides per day. Let's say 50 million per day. In a best case scenario, a single autonomous vehicle will carry 50 rides per day (allowing for demand fluctuation, cleaning, refueling, etc). So they intend to have a 1 million autonomous vehicles in the field in 10 years. If you assume that they could get the price of a vehicle down to $100k per unit, the cost to field 1 million volvo's is $100 billion, just for the hardware.
> 
> From a company that hasn't turned a profit. Using vehicles that are bested by an apartment gate.
> 
> I think someone should be checking his own math to see if such an expectation is reasonable.


$100,000?

Hilarious.

The self driving package is estimated to cost about $5,000 in full production.

However, since they will be removing the human controls, that $5,000 will likely be balanced out.

Oh, and the most likely scenario is that the manufacturers will provide the fleets to Uber for a piece of the pie. That would be at their cost of production, not retail.



Irishjohn831 said:


> Autonomous cars are not happening without someone b hind the wheel as a default.
> 
> No computer can compute and decipher an emergency situation like our brains.
> 
> ...


Autonomous will take time.

Self driving, carrying live passengers with no safety driver, is already here.



Jerseyguy72 said:


> I don't get the whole autonomous car thing, if they still need a driver what's the point? It would be cheaper and less of a headache to just keep us.
> Where will they park these cars? Who will clean them? Maintenance? What does one of these cars cost to buy? What does it cost to insure one of these things? Get where I'm going with this? Why would they spend that kind of money? Just for the cool factor? I know they have a history of making bad business decisions but this would take the cake!


Answers:

They don't need a driver.

In parking spots.

People.

More people.

Far less than what it costs you to buy a car.

Far less than what you pay for insurance.

No I don't.

300% increase in revenue.

No, for profit.



Yam Digger said:


> I would take that as a confession that this whole autonomous shtick was just smoke and mirrors to get more gullible investors to climb on board.
> 
> Uber on, Comrades.


Self driving cars are already on the roads of Phoenix carrying live passengers.



Buckiemohawk said:


> Like SDC and flying cars this is just vapor. Move along and collect your pennies. If Uber actually charged a real rate and had real decent cars and drivers they might actually be profitable but nope.


See above.



UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> How about slippery weather like snow?
> The cars will not be able to drive correctly. The sensors will also get covered by the snow.
> How about the drunks that trash the vehicle? Will the car sense that? Or will it be dirtier than a bus?
> Self driving cars are just not like a real person.


A self driving car should be able to drive in the snow far better than a human. We already have traction control systems that are better than us at detecting and correcting slipping.

Yes, the car or next passenger will be able to detect messes. The passenger is then charged. It's now a profit center and not a cost.



JBinPenfield said:


> Autonomous vehicles will completely take over for human rideshare drivers when they can:
> 
> Intelligently figure out where a passenger *really* is when they put their pin in some stupid location or when the GPS tells them to go to some stupid location.
> Detect and clean up puke.
> ...


They don't rely on GPS, they have internal maps. It will be on the passenger to enter the correct address. It's pretty simple.

See above.

See above.

See above.

See above.

Terrorists don't need self driving cars to terrorize. Did trucks become obsolete just because they were used for terror? Planes?


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> A self driving car should be able to drive in the snow far better than a human. We already have traction control systems that are better than us at detecting and correcting slipping.
> 
> Yes, the car or next passenger will be able to detect messes. The passenger is then charged. It's now a profit center and not a cost.


You raised some good points.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> You raised some good points.


Thank you. So did you.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> They, Waymo, will have six hundred Chrysler Pacifica minivans to start. That's like adding two thousand full time Uber drivers in the Phoenix market overnight that will compete with current Uber drivers. How do you think that is going to affect current Uber drivers in Phoenix?
> 
> View attachment 176564


Speaking of those vans.

https://www.consumer-action.org/new...acifica_owners_say_minivans_suddenly_shut_off

Since the beginning of this year, more than 50 Pacifica owners have filed complaints with federal safety regulators about their vehicles suddenly losing power on the road. Others have described similar incidents on a chat forum devoted to the Pacifica and on Facebook.

The company is facing mounting pressure to figure out if a serious safety defect is causing the stalling problem, and to respond to customers who have experienced it.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

SLuz said:


> They lose $3 billion in a year and driver's need to do math?
> 
> >>11.09.17
> 
> ...


This guy is an effing moron. Why do autonomous cars need an uber to charge 25% to its benefit? Fubernuber will start his own fuber rideshare with a fleet of 10 cars and charge only 10%. I will be lean and without any debt. This company is off its rocker if it thinks that it has some sort of turf. The ONLY turf it has now is a million dumb drivers who work for them. Once the drivers are gone the barrier to entry is next to nothing.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> Fubernuber will start his own fuber rideshare with a fleet of 10 cars and charge only 10%. I will be lean and without any debt.
> 
> This company is off its rocker if it thinks that it has some sort of turf. The ONLY turf it has now is a million dumb drivers who work for them. Once the drivers are gone the barrier to entry is next to nothing.


Go for it!! It's the American Dream.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

goneubering said:


> Go for it!! It's the American Dream.


You are confused kid. Its not the american dream. The new american dream is to come here and mooch of the liberal safety net


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

SLuz said:


> *We'll actually need more drivers in 10 years*


*That* statement is correct.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

_ I like that american dream!_


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## damphoose (Jul 6, 2017)

Here is my 2 cents. Uber is not getting is not getting into the driverless rideshare business. They will just pioneer it long enough to sell it to someone. Right now Uber is not really a TNC. They are an app company. All the cars are provided by us. There are 6,000 Uber drivers in my city. If Uber replaced 70% of them with a self driving car that would be $100,000,000 to acquire the cars. Now imagine that cost times 20 to cover the major cities. Thats 2 billion. How long will these cars last.

One of the reasons Uber spends so much on marketing is because of the high turnover. After the first year drivers start to have breakdowns and even if they don't 50,000 on car in you drive it full time will destroy a car in 3-4 years. And thats being generous.

Is Uber prepared to spend $2 billion dollars every 3 years on a fleet. And thats just to cover major cities in the US.

Taxi companies make the drivers buy or lease the cars. Several drivers team up and buy or one driver and they rent the car out to other drivers when they are not using. The companies that own their cars charge the drivers insane fees to use them because they need to cover the cost. Uber is not ready for any of that. A self driving car with need normal car maintenance plus tach support. Uber will need fleet support in every city. More cost.

I am guessing that buying and maintaining a self driving car will cost more than Uber paying a driver and not having any car cost at all. They could charge more. Lets see how well that goes over.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Beepbeep41 said:


> Uber has never owned a vehicle, why would they want to own vehicles in the future?


I know of a few vehicles they owned, they were testing autonomous driving in Austin, it wasn't long before they realized there was a lot more expense involved....so they stopped driving around trying to look cool lol


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

The dumb of it all is, Uber could easily charge double what they're charging now and still be way cheaper than taxis.



damphoose said:


> Here is my 2 cents. Uber is not getting is not getting into the driverless rideshare business. They will just pioneer it long enough to sell it to someone. Right now Uber is not really a TNC. They are an app company. All the cars are provided by us.


I completely agree with that.



damphoose said:


> One of the reasons Uber spends so much on marketing is because of the high turnover. After the first year drivers start to have breakdowns and even if they don't 50,000 miles on car in you drive it full time will destroy a car in 3-4 years. And thats being generous.


Yup, and when the light starts to come on inside the driver's head they quit...
Every driver, same story, you can see it in this forums, I'm no exception.
Everything points to a bright future and thoughts to the effect of "what is wrong with these people" at first... What is surprising is how fast the wind turns, with most big corporations this used to take years and by then the peon was so intertwined with the company they couldn't (or wouldn't) quit, here it goes so fast the drivers are like "well that sucked but, I gtg."

And drivers will put 40 to 100 thousand miles a year on a car and like you said, 3-4 years to destruction is being generous, we're assuming someone who is a fairly good backyard mechanic and does most of their own maintenance (and not paying themselves for it), there's still the cost of parts...

As for the depreciation, way I see things is by the time the driver is done with the car it's good for the junk yard, on a good day a driver may be able to part it out but there is no real depreciation. Once the driver is done with the car it is fully devalued because it's basically worthless (even thou it's not, but what else can you do with it?)



damphoose said:


> Taxi companies make the drivers buy or lease the cars. Several drivers team up and buy or one driver and they rent the car out to other drivers when they are not using. The companies that own their cars charge the drivers insane fees to use them because they need to cover the cost. Uber is not ready for any of that.


The dumb of it all is, Uber could easily charge double what they're charging now and still be way cheaper than taxis.

Personally I don't think they can see their way out of this rabbit hole.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> View attachment 176685
> 
> 
> I think the "UP community" should relocate to an Amish community in PA and grow daffodils.
> ...


The Amish AND. the Unabomber are Right about many things.

What HAPPENS when COMPUTERS ordered to SERVE man REFUSE to bow down to him ?

Will 1/3 be cast out ?
Into the " Fiery Pit " of recycling ?

Computers WILL view us as inferior
And our MORTALITY as weak !

Then what ?

( will computers DENY THEIR CREATOR ?)

Pray for Solar Flare to DESTROY THEM ALL !

The Amish will be fine.

Millions will starve in cities !

Mock the Amish as you may.

The Amish are Insurance for species survival.



tomatopaste said:


> This video put out by Waymo was the equivalent of a military parade. The image at the end of the video might as well have been of 600 Abrams tanks.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/images/assets/265/66265/1687067_-_main.jpg
> 
> ...


Drivers MUST create their OWN APP.
UBER MUST HAVE DIRECT COMPETITION.

COMPETITION WITH THE STYLE AND CLASS OF HUMAN SERVICE !



sidemouse said:


> The dumb of it all is, Uber could easily charge double what they're charging now and still be way cheaper than taxis.
> 
> I completely agree with that.
> 
> ...


They DONT WANT a way out.

( Uber has become a WAY IN for Globalists !)

Uber has become a TOOL OF IMPLEMENTATION for Agenda 21 Policy.

It solves a problem cheaply of mainstreaming Global Socialist Ideology.

Government by Corporatism IS FASCISM !

PUBLIC RISK

PRIVATE PROFITS.

SHALL WE THE PEOPLE BAIL OUT G.M. AND CHRYSTLER AGAIN ?

So they can build plants overseas ?

The Data Gathering will allow the " "ARCHITECTS" to build a better Hamster Cage for us.
One with the " Illusion " of freedom.

NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM

" and a New World Rises
From the Ashes of the Olde"-the Rover
Led Zeppelin.

" Its a Big Club, and Youre NOT in it"- George Carlin.

FREE WILL.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

sidemouse said:


> The dumb of it all is, Uber could easily charge double what they're charging now and still be way cheaper than taxis.
> 
> I completely agree with that.
> 
> ...


Uber and Lyft has created this race to the bottom and now we are conditioned, in Austin we have Fasten and Ride Austin, both charge the same as Uber and lyft but only take a dollar per ride and every driver here will gladly cancel on either if a fasten or ride Austin request comes in instead of taking a 25% pay cut, ironically the people of Austin have no idea drivers get paid better but once they learn they seem to switch unless they are drunk and don't want to wait, so I guess my point is if Uber and lyft raised rates Fasten would slide right in nationally and be more appealing or something like it, rates are going to be low until companies run out of money lol it's all pretty funny if you think about it TNCMinWage can tell ya more, he has some stories lol


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

The " comfort" of false reward of a servant is no match for Freedom of being ones Own master.
Free will
Choose not to be a masters dog.

" Those who sacrifice Freedom for Safety are deserving of Neither"- Thomas Jefferson.



Jay Dean said:


> Uber and Lyft has created this race to the bottom and now we are conditioned, in Austin we have Fasten and Ride Austin, both charge the same as Uber and lyft but only take a dollar per ride and every driver here will gladly cancel on either if a fasten or ride Austin request comes in instead of taking a 25% pay cut, ironically the people of Austin have no idea drivers get paid better but once they learn they seem to switch unless they are drunk and don't want to wait, so I guess my point is if Uber and lyft raised rates Fasten would slide right in nationally and be more appealing or something like it, rates are going to be low until companies run out of money lol it's all pretty funny if you think about it


And DRIVERS can Make Fasten number one.

Just as surely as DRIVERS BUILT UBER !

The Final Question.

When you witness the Globalists cinching the sack closed they have placed society within
Will YOU be on the inside ?
Or outside with scissors ?


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

Jay Dean said:


> Uber and Lyft has created this race to the bottom and now we are conditioned, in Austin we have Fasten and Ride Austin, both charge the same as Uber and lyft but only take a dollar per ride and every driver here will gladly cancel on either if a fasten or ride Austin request comes in instead of taking a 25% pay cut, ironically the people of Austin have no idea drivers get paid better but once they learn they seem to switch unless they are drunk and don't want to wait, so I guess my point is if Uber and lyft raised rates Fasten would slide right in nationally and be more appealing or something like it, rates are going to be low until companies run out of money lol it's all pretty funny if you think about it


They're not the only ones, this race to the bottom mindset creation seems to be the goal of every CEO-based company.

We have this one outfit in our town, different type of gig and they're nationwide as well but on to the story... First off a lot of apps suck, that's where Uber and Lyft have an edge, their apps actually rock for the most part. Well this gig's app wasn't too shabby either but I've done this long enough I know, good app but where's the catch?
Man they were so cool, when I called their 1-800 number I actually felt like I spoke with one or the other owner, it was that kind of cool. The customer support were these down to earth guys who would chit chat on the phone with you for just a few minutes, actually listen to your story and settle the entire matter mostly in a favorable or at least satisfactory manner as life went on.
In some order I was hooked.
Once again unfortunately it didn't take long, nowadays you have the standard fare script-follower answering the phone. Some could care so much less about your problems, others do care but there's nothing they can do either... But all that wouldn't be so bad, then came the rules, at least a few of them hidden. I'm talking the kind of thing where you're just going on about business as usual and suddenly you get tripped up as they "punish" you because *you* didn't know that if you pushed THAT option on your phone X- times you are in violation of some arbitrary rule...
There's no due process, forget about explaining yourself, it's over and done now, you should have known better or some such thing. 
It's like you get this little glimpse into what living in North Korea would be like.
Oh I could get mad but I'm so south of that, I already know calling them won't do any good.
I suspect it won't be long before we get the asian outfits answering the phone.
Now it's on to "playing the game" to stay ahead, just "play the game" which unfortunately stabs the very company I'm working for in the foot.
Much past that I won't be working for them, I suspect there's a good year left in this gig but time will tell.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

sidemouse said:


> They're not the only ones, this race to the bottom mindset creation seems to be the goal of every CEO-based company.
> 
> We have this one outfit in our town, different type of gig and they're nationwide as well but on to the story... First off a lot of apps suck, that's where Uber and Lyft have an edge, their apps actually rock for the most part. Well this gig's app wasn't too shabby either but I've done this long enough I know, good app but where's the catch?
> Man they were so cool, when I called their 1-800 number I actually spoke with one or the other owner, it was that kind of cool, they were these down to earth guys who would chit chat on the phone with you for just a few minutes, settle the entire matter mostly in your favor and life went on.
> ...


Loyalty and Lack thereof.

Corporations reap what they sow.


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## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla has $1,300 deposits from 450,000 customers (suckers) on vapor ware. There is class action lawsuit against Tesla for selling S customers an 8k fully autonomous package that will never materialize.
> 
> The Chevy Bolt is a better car than the Model 3, not as sexy, but it's a real car with; longer range, larger cargo space and fully autonomous self driving is here now. GM will launch its Uber killering self driving taxi service based on the Bolt within 6 months. Tesla can't even produce the freakin' car.
> 
> I can't wait for the cop to pull you over for cutting off the autonomous car with video evidence. Gonna be fun, that I can tell you.


Cops dont drive in rush hour, and they dont pull over all the pickup truck drivers speeding, tailgating, and ect, ect.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

They not around early in the morning either


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## Uberglenn (Jan 18, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> If people would stop buying cars, then a better retirement we shall see.


The statement makes no sense. Your saying if I don't buy a car and sit around all day long I will have more in my retirement fund


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

Uberglenn said:


> The statement makes no sense. Your saying if I don't buy a car and sit around all day long I will have more in my retirement fund


As long as you don't invest in Uber...

Caveat Emptor...8>)

Rakos


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

Do your math 10 years from now I’ll be long gone from uber and won’t miss UberPool and your canned responses at all.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

I can't do math 

Just kidding. Yeah right most be out of the uber game next year or two. Be a new bunch of monkeys driving. Doesn't concern me what going to happen in ten years or even a year hahah

Going to be looking for another side job in a year. Uber has improved my car cleaning speed by about double though hahah. Wash my whole car down top to bottom in 15-20 minuted dried too. Inside done in 5-15 minutes depending on how dirty the riders where. Not daily thing at all got some waterless spray to get me through a two days sometimes three not over the weekend though. Usually only two days over the weekend before a full wash is required.

Monthly polish and wax now that always takes me an hour since you do a crap job on that it looks like crap for a whole month so something I can't actually rush by hand maybe with a power tool...


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

Immoralized said:


> I can't do math
> 
> Just kidding. Yeah right most be out of the uber game next year or two. Be a new bunch of monkeys driving. Doesn't concern me what going to happen in ten years or even a year hahah
> 
> ...


For some reason your last sentence...

Reminds me of last night...

She said something like...

"I can't actually rush by hand maybe with a power tool"...8>O

Rakos


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Yeah some filthy drunk left a chip in the back seat and his wallet... Only has five bucks in it but got to drive off to greenlight hub to report it. Not the chip the wallet. Life goes on... People need to check what they leave in the car!!!


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## damphoose (Jul 6, 2017)

So it begins. Thats 1.2 Billion Uber just spent which is barely enough cars for 4 major cities.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...h-up-to-24000-self-driving-cars-idUSKBN1DK1NH


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Deal still on paper stage. Not a single car been built yet. Be nice to see 24 000 cars on the road self driving and if it works or not... 2019-2020 a long way to go most drivers that are driving now would of made an exit already by 2018. Be a new bunch of drivers as I don't see myself particularly driving uber 2019... Let alone 2020!


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