# Tax Attorney Here...Ask Away



## UberPissed

I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


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## DRiver II

is there a standard earnings to deduction ratio that is red flagged by the IRS?

I calculated my deductions to be over twice my earnings for rideshare in 2015.


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## UberPissed

Well that question implies that you want to use a number that will let you fly under the radar - which is criminal tax evasion. 

The IRS uses a DIF score to determine when there is an audit. The algorithm is not public.

That said, claim what you can claim, and have the proof. I think you may have included deductions that are not deductible if you have that much in expenses (e.g., meals).

If you want - you can post your numbers, and I can comment on it.


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## DRiver II

I created a thread in this section that pretty much sums it up.

I'm not trying to evade anything, I just had uncommon circumstances. I assume, that led to such. a high cost repair being the most significant.


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## SCdave

Uber is "suggesting" that we consent to receive our 1099-k and/or 1099-misc by "Electronic Delivery" in place of having Uber mail us a Hardcopy.

My preference would be to receive a Hardcopy mailed to me and also have access to the Electronic Version.

What is your suggestion?

_Suggestions_


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## Wheelman

Is there a limit on 1099 business expenses by income? I plan on using the IRS mileage rate and car washes. My concern is significant other income earned before I started driving. E.g., will that other job income limit my expense I can deduct doing Uber?


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## UberPissed

Wheelman - no, unless it's considered a passive activity. If so, you can't take losses, but you can use expenses to take your UBER money to zero. I doubt that anyone doing this would get to the level of a passive activity.

SCdave - I think you are gonna get bent over the barrel on this one.


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## Wheelman

Thanks, UP. I do my own taxes on TurboTax and this will be my first time with 1099 income. Being able to take the .575/mi deduction will make a huge difference in my net income from driving. In other words, virtually no income tax on my Uber work.

Any other issues for new 1099'ers?

BTW, thanks for availing yourself for questions.


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## UberPissed

Wheelman - I always tell people to do it themselves. The return prep industry is not regulated at the federal level, and only 4-5 states regulate return preparers (all 50 states regulate barbers though).


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## DRiver II

what purchase price (lowest) of an auto is generally applicable for the maximum depreciation under the MACRS accounting method (for the 5 years eligible)?

for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?

also, is there still the optional 'bonus' luxury depreciation allowed, or did that end in 2014?


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## Bob Reynolds

For 2014, Uber sent out 1099-K for income reporting. 1099K is really not for services like Uber. It is meant for Paypal and Amazon type transactions.

A 1099K is required in instances where there are at least 200 transactions AND at least $20,000 in income. Most Uber drivers will not hit those numbers so a 1099K is not required and is probably the wrong form anyway.

However Uber will still sent out a 1099K instead of a 1099-MISC. 

How can we get Uber to send the correct 1099-MISC form instead of the 1099K? So far they have refused.


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## UberPissed

Bob Reynolds - correct - although the IRS is slowly treating those 1099-Ks like 1099-Miscs for purposes of an AUR Audit. I am seeing more and more of them in my practice.

DRiver II - not sure, as i don't deal in that area too much, but i can tell you that they use something called a mid-year convention to deprecation under MACRS - I believe you can elect to have several different depreciation methods (declining balance, double declining balance, straight line, etc).

It also depends on the percentage of business use and the date it was put into service.


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## UberTaxPro

DRiver II said:


> what purchase price (lowest) of an auto is generally applicable for the maximum depreciation under the MACRS accounting method (for the 5 years eligible)?
> 
> for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?
> 
> also, is there still the optional 'bonus' luxury depreciation allowed, or did that end in 2014?


*for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?*
yes. For cars, the deduction limitations for the first three tax years are $3,160, $5,100, and $3,050, respectively, and $1,875.

*also, is there still the optional 'bonus' luxury depreciation allowed, or did that end in 2014?*
On Dec. 18, 2015, Congress passed a tax extenders package extending the bonus depreciation. The provision extends bonus depreciation for property acquired and placed in service during 2015 through 2019. The bonus depreciation percentage is 50 percent for property placed in service during 2015, 2016, and 2017, but then phases down to 40 percent in 2018 and 30 percent in 2019. Under these rules, the depreciation limit for a passenger automobile that qualifies for bonus depreciation is increased by $8,000 for the first tax year I believe.


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## UberTaxPro

UberPissed said:


> Wheelman - I always tell people to do it themselves. The return prep industry is not regulated at the federal level, and only 4-5 states regulate return preparers (all 50 states regulate barbers though).


and they all regulate taxis also! I don't think the IRS has given up on their quest to regulate all preparers. Eventually they'll have some success. In my town there is a small fishing bait and supply store that puts up a sign in their window at tax time " We Do Taxes"


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## DRiver II

UberTaxPro said:


> *for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?*
> yes. For cars, the deduction limitations for the first three tax years are $3,160, $5,100, and $3,050, respectively, and $1,875.
> 
> *also, is there still the optional 'bonus' luxury depreciation allowed, or did that end in 2014?*
> On Dec. 18, 2015, Congress passed a tax extenders package extending the bonus depreciation. The provision extends bonus depreciation for property acquired and placed in service during 2015 through 2019. The bonus depreciation percentage is 50 percent for property placed in service during 2015, 2016, and 2017, but then phases down to 40 percent in 2018 and 30 percent in 2019. Under these rules, the depreciation limit for a passenger automobile that qualifies for bonus depreciation is increased by $8,000 for the first tax year I believe.


thanks a lot U.T.P.,

that was very helpful.

Now, is depreciation accounted for how much the car is used for business use? for example if I used my vehicle 50% for rideshare, would my maximum (excluding any bonus depreciation) depreciation for the 1st year be $3160 x 50% or $1580.00?

and also, is the depreciation based on the initial purchase price of the vehicle or the fair market value of it the year its first put in service?


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## UberTaxPro

DRiver II said:


> thanks a lot U.T.P.,
> 
> that was very helpful.
> 
> Now, is depreciation accounted for how much the car is used for business use? for example if I used my vehicle 50% for rideshare, would my maximum (excluding any bonus depreciation) depreciation for the 1st year be $3160 x 50% or $1580.00?
> 
> and also, is the depreciation based on the initial purchase price of the vehicle or the fair market value of it the year its first put in service?


*Now, is depreciation accounted for how much the car is used for business use? for example if I used my vehicle 50% for rideshare, would my maximum (excluding any bonus depreciation) depreciation for the 1st year be $3160 x 50% or $1580.00? *yes and also I believe you have to use the car at least 50% business.

*is the depreciation based on the initial purchase price of the vehicle or the fair market value of it the year its first put in service?*
The depreciation is based on the cost "basis" of the vehicle. Generally the basis is the cost of the car, plus sales tax and improvements.


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## ADX

If we use standard miles only, are there anything else we can deduct? A CPA on sf forums section says tickets, tolls, legal fees, etc are all deductible no matter if which method we choose, I find it hard to believe tickets can be written off...


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## UberTaxPro

ADX said:


> If we use standard miles only, are there anything else we can deduct? A CPA on sf forums section says tickets, tolls, legal fees, etc are all deductible no matter if which method we choose, I find it hard to believe tickets can be written off...


In addition to using the standard mileage rate, you can deduct any business-related parking fees and tolls. Tickets are never deductible. Legal fees would be deductible if they're for ordinary and necessary business purposes, not for tickets. I think property tax on your car is also deductible in addition to standard mileage deduction.


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## ADX

UberTaxPro said:


> In addition to using the standard mileage rate, you can deduct any business-related parking fees and tolls. Tickets are never deductible. Legal fees would be deductible if they're for ordinary and necessary business purposes, not for tickets. I think property tax on your car is also deductible in addition to standard mileage deduction.


How would we differentiate normal tolls and dead mile tolls? Log book I assume? I screwed up 2015 and didn't track anything as I assumed uber/lyft tracked dead miles. This year I'm using Hurdlr to track all my miles/expenses/earnings/etc.

How about uber/lyft fees/commission? Are those deductible?


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## UberTaxPro

Yes, all rideshare company fees/commissions are deductible. Yes, you need to have a record keeping system. Uber reimburses for some tolls, you can't deduct tolls you've been reimbursed for. If you use EZ-pass(or whatever they call it in CA) you can check your account for records you might have missed.


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## McUber13

UberPissed said:


> I think the tile says it all. Anything I can help with?


Thank you for offering up your advice. I'm just looking for "what to expect" when the 1099 comes. My total payout from Uber in 2015 was about $2400. That includes tolls, SRF, etc. I kept track of all miles associated with Uber and that total comes out to about 3950 miles. I'm in NJ and our dediction is 0.575/mile. Can you help explain what I'm looking at come tax time. Am I only responsible for taxes on the difference (approx $130)? Also, using this standard deduction, how will that play into my other income, is it independent? I have a full time job, wife works part time and we both clear very comfortable salaries via W2.


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## ADX

UberTaxPro said:


> Yes, all rideshare company fees/commissions are deductible. Yes, you need to have a record keeping system. Uber reimburses for some tolls, you can't deduct tolls you've been reimbursed for. If you use EZ-pass(or whatever they call it in CA) you can check your account for records you might have missed.


So let's say I made a total of $40,000 after 20% commission ($50k gross fares) of uber/lyft.
Also assume I drove 20,000 miles (not including dead miles).
Assume I don't deduct dead miles/dead tolls (since i have no log and don't want to fake a log)

Would my taxable income = $50,000 - $11,500 (standard mileage) - $10,000 (commissions) = $28,500?


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## UberTaxPro

ADX said:


> So let's say I made a total of $40,000 after 20% commission ($50k gross fares) of uber/lyft.
> Also assume I drove 20,000 miles (not including dead miles).
> Assume I don't deduct dead miles/dead tolls (since i have no log and don't want to fake a log)
> 
> Would my taxable income = $50,000 - $11,500 (standard mileage) - $10,000 (commissions) = $28,500?


 What you're describing ($28,500) is more like "net self employment income" than taxable income. You might have a few more business expenses like phone, chargers, water bottles puke bags etc....After your "net self employment income" you'll still have personal exemptions, itemized deductions or the standard deduction etc... to reach a lower taxable income for income tax purposes. The standard deduction is $6300 for a single filer for 2015. The personal exemption is $4000 for a single filer for 2015


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## ADX

UberTaxPro said:


> What you're describing ($28,500) is more like "net self employment income" than taxable income. You might have a few more business expenses like phone, chargers, water bottles puke bags etc....After your "net self employment income" you'll still have personal exemptions, itemized deductions or the standard deduction etc... to reach a lower taxable income for income tax purposes. The standard deduction is $6300 for a single filer for 2015. The personal exemption is $4000 for a single filer for 2015


How would I account deduction for phone plan? Uber/Lyft seems to use 1-2gb/mo and I always have a 5gb plan, should/can I write off half my phone bill? And what about insurance and car payments? I drove 30k miles total this year and I assume uber/lyft will have tracked 15k. Would I be able to write off half my insurance and car payments?


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## UberTaxPro

ADX said:


> How would I account deduction for phone plan? Uber/Lyft seems to use 1-2gb/mo and I always have a 5gb plan, should/can I write off half my phone bill? And what about insurance and car payments? I drove 30k miles total this year and I assume uber/lyft will have tracked 15k. Would I be able to write off half my insurance and car payments?


Phone Bill you can deduct business % use. Insurance and car payments no deduction if you're using the standard mileage deduction. Car loan interest is deductible in addition to standard mileage rate up to the business %


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## peteb1414

I have heard the 1099 forms include gross fare total? Do we get taxed on the total or just what we earned? .. I can't imagine why we would pay taxes on Uber's money.


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## UberPissed

Doesn't matter - if they include the SRF, it would be deducted as an expense before you figure your tax.

Side question - how is it driving in GR?


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## MRVEGAS711

Thank you for your answers tax man....very kind.


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## peteb1414

So we deduct the SRF and Commission as expenses?

Driving in GR is 'ok', I imagine there is more profit to be made in bigger cities. Weekend bar surges only last a half an hour or so.. lucky to get one or two rides on a surge. I have to put it in about 14-16 hours just to make $200/ weekend.


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## JimNtexas

UberTaxPro said:


> *for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?*
> yes. For cars, the deduction limitations for the first three tax years are $3,160, $5,100, and $3,050, respectively, and $1,875.
> 
> *also, is there still the optional 'bonus' luxury depreciation allowed, or did that end in 2014?*
> On Dec. 18, 2015, Congress passed a tax extenders package extending the bonus depreciation. The provision extends bonus depreciation for property acquired and placed in service during 2015 through 2019. The bonus depreciation percentage is 50 percent for property placed in service during 2015, 2016, and 2017, but then phases down to 40 percent in 2018 and 30 percent in 2019. Under these rules, the depreciation limit for a passenger automobile that qualifies for bonus depreciation is increased by $8,000 for the first tax year I believe.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but taxpayers who use the standard mileage deduction cannot also depreciate their vehicle, since the standard mileage rate includes depreciation.

It's also my understand that a taxpayer operating a business vehicle using the standard mileage deduction can reduce the basis in that vehicle by about 20 cents a mile (there is a table for different years). This might help some drivers who sell their TNC vehicle by creating a capital loss that they could carry forward or backwards.


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## UberTaxPro

JimNtexas said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but taxpayers who use the standard mileage deduction cannot also depreciate their vehicle, since the standard mileage rate includes depreciation.
> 
> It's also my understand that a taxpayer operating a business vehicle using the standard mileage deduction can reduce the basis in that vehicle by about 20 cents a mile (there is a table for different years). This might help some drivers who sell their TNC vehicle by creating a capital loss that they could carry forward or backwards.


No need to correct, you're right about no depreciation with standard mileage. I was responding to questions from @DRiver II concerning the actual expense method. I don't know about your second question yet. Here's the questions from DRiver II I was responding to :
what purchase price (lowest) of an auto is generally applicable for the maximum depreciation under the MACRS accounting method (for the 5 years eligible)?

for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?

also, is there still the optional 'bonus' luxury depreciation allowed, or did that end in 2014?


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## JimS

What sort of things are covered by the 57.5 c/mi tax deduction? In other words, what sort of deductions can I make with Uber that isn't covered by the standard mileage deduction? Things like candy, water, paper, cell phone are all additional deductions, but other things like car wash, strut replacement, car washes, etc., are already part of the deduction, I presume.


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## UberTaxPro

JimS said:


> What sort of things are covered by the 57.5 c/mi tax deduction? In other words, what sort of deductions can I make with Uber that isn't covered by the standard mileage deduction? Things like candy, water, paper, cell phone are all additional deductions, but other things like car wash, strut replacement, car washes, etc., are already part of the deduction, I presume.


Yes you're correct. In addition to using the standard mileage rate, you can deduct any business-related parking fees and tolls.


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## UberTaxPro

JimNtexas said:


> It's also my understand that a taxpayer operating a business vehicle using the standard mileage deduction can reduce the basis in that vehicle by about 20 cents a mile (there is a table for different years). This might help some drivers who sell their TNC vehicle by creating a capital loss that they could carry forward or backwards.


Yes there is a table for different years. If you sell a business vehicle after taking the standard mileage deduction you *must *reduce your basis by the amount in the table. Lowering your basis generally increases tax. People using the actual expense method have to re-capture depreciation when selling an asset. This is basicly re-capturing the depreciation that was included in your standard mileage rate. It means you pay more not less.


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## RobGM84

UberTaxPro said:


> Yes, all rideshare company fees/commissions are deductible. Yes, you need to have a record keeping system. Uber reimburses for some tolls, you can't deduct tolls you've been reimbursed for. If you use EZ-pass(or whatever they call it in CA) you can check your account for records you might have missed.


Can you clarify here as I am not 100% sure this is correct (ie: reimbursed expenses). Normally with W-2 employment you are correct that reimbursed expenses are not deductible but in the case of 1099 work i think this might be incorrect. When my employer reimburses me for travel it is my understanding that the reimbursement is not taxed...and not included in my taxable income...so is therefore not something i can claim. On the other hand when Uber (or postmates, lyft, etc) reimburse me for an expense (like the $30 meal i just purchased on my personal card for PM because i forgot my PEX card) this reimbursement will come in as regular income on my 1099. Because this is a direct cost of doing business i would then need to claim it as an expense in order to offset the income...is this correct?


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## UberTaxPro

Anything that is included on your 1099 can be deducted if you have a legit expense. I know last year Uber included their 20% in my 1099 income and I deducted it out. I don't think they included my toll reimbursements as income in my 1099 so I wasn't able to deduct tolls except for dead mile tolls that weren't reimbursed. *Everyone should check their 1099's carefully to analyze what was included as income before starting their taxes. *


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## Archie8616

Is it ok to scan all my fuel receipts, and then turn that over to a tax accountant, or do you have to hand them the actual physical receipts? 

Question 2.
If you do scan your documents that are tax deductions, can you then get rid of the hard copy? 

Thanks in advance!


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## sirenwerks

I plan on doing standard mileage since I'm using the family car and have a couple questions:

1. I keep a mileage log in Excel and use my cell phone camera to capture my start and end mileages each time I drive. This also provides time/date and location stamped proof. Should I get audited, will this hold up under scrutiny?

2. I've heard that, even though I'm doing standard mileage, I can still deduct interest on my auto loan. Is this true and, if so, how would I need to prorate it - by mileage or time percentage comparison?

3. I really need to clarify this - Dead miles are deductible, right? I live between 3 decent markets - Baltimore, Annapolis, and DC - and the mileage to get into them, or that I spend cruising to set-up for the next ride in the county can be considerable (especially when I end up in the middle of nowhere Virginia at the end of a night), and I don't want to get caught with my pants down if I claim it all.

4. And as a consideration for 2016... I had to upgrade my smart phone this month because the old one was regularly crashing under the demands of simultaneously running the Uber, Lyft and Google Maps apps, and effecting my ability to remain on the systems and accept rides. I consider this a business expense because, if I weren't dependent on the tech to perform car service, I wouldn't have needed to upgrade. I know I can deduct the cell service plan on a time basis, but can I deduct the cost of the new tech purchase? If so... can I claim it all in one year (since I'll pay the phone off within the year) or will I need to do a 5 year depreciation?

Thanks for offering your expertise,

Bryan


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## UberTaxPro

Archie8616 said:


> Is it ok to scan all my fuel receipts, and then turn that over to a tax accountant, or do you have to hand them the actual physical receipts?
> 
> Question 2.
> If you do scan your documents that are tax deductions, can you then get rid of the hard copy?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


1. Unless your accountant is doing bookkeeping for you there is no need to give him/her your receipts at all. For tax purposes you can just give the $total of all receipts. If you're giving them to him/her for bookkeeping I'd ask him/her what's preferred.
2. The IRS will accept digital receipts these days but they still prefer old fashioned hard copy originals.


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## UberTaxPro

sirenwerks said:


> I plan on doing standard mileage since I'm using the family car and have a couple questions:
> 
> 1. I keep a mileage log in Excel and use my cell phone camera to capture my start and end mileages each time I drive. This also provides time/date and location stamped proof. Should I get audited, will this hold up under scrutiny?
> 
> 2. I've heard that, even though I'm doing standard mileage, I can still deduct interest on my auto loan. Is this true and, if so, how would I need to prorate it - by mileage or time percentage comparison?
> 
> 3. I really need to clarify this - Dead miles are deductible, right? I live between 3 decent markets - Baltimore, Annapolis, and DC - and the mileage to get into them, or that I spend cruising to set-up for the next ride in the county can be considerable (especially when I end up in the middle of nowhere Virginia at the end of a night), and I don't want to get caught with my pants down if I claim it all.
> 
> 4. And as a consideration for 2016... I had to upgrade my smart phone this month because the old one was regularly crashing under the demands of simultaneously running the Uber, Lyft and Google Maps apps, and effecting my ability to remain on the systems and accept rides. I consider this a business expense because, if I weren't dependent on the tech to perform car service, I wouldn't have needed to upgrade. I know I can deduct the cell service plan on a time basis, but can I deduct the cost of the new tech purchase? If so... can I claim it all in one year (since I'll pay the phone off within the year) or will I need to do a 5 year depreciation?
> 
> Thanks for offering your expertise,
> 
> Bryan


1. The method you use keep track of your data doesn't matter as long as the proper data is being kept on a daily basis.
2. In addition to the standard mileage deduction self-employed taxpayers may deduct car loan interest, provided they deduct only that portion related to business use of the vehicle. I *believe* mileage would be the way to pro-rate because it is vehicle related.
3. To be deductible miles must be "business" miles. If your dead miles are ordinary and necessary business like you describe and you have a mileage log to prove it.....yes
4. You might be able to deduct the whole cost in one year by using a section 179 deduction. There are some limits and requirements. One requirement is that the 179 deduction(cost of phone) cannot exceed your business taxable income. However, you can carry forward any unused portion for an unlimited # of years.


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## Wheelman

Deposits changed from 'Uber Tech' to 'Raizor'. Does this mean two separate 1099s requiring everyone to breakout deductions for two payers?


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## ClevelandUberRider

I have heard conflicting opinions on this. Would like to hear it from you (if you have mentioned it in another thread, I apologize).

If a driver turns on his driver's app before leaving home, then immediately drives out, heading towards his first staging area for the day. Sometimes he gets ping en route to that staging area, sometimes only after having arrived at said staging area. No matter.

My questions is:

Are the miles the driver travels between his home and the first PU point considered commute so it is deductible, or are they always considered deductible miles as long as app is on?

How about the "commute" home--also with app on, at the end of the day, until arriving at home base?


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## ClevelandUberRider

I know it's advisable for drivers to keep physical written records of the readings of the odometer when starting and when ending app-on and app-off. But on top of that, do drivers need to also write down for every trip--trip's starting address, arrival address, miles driven for said trip, odometer readings at beginning and ending of the trip? It seems like a lot of work to do, especially when a trip is only bringing in $2 or so. This is especially taxing when drivers receive back to back ping and ought to be rushing to the next PU point.

(Edited a typo.)


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## optmeout

Form SS-8 Are we Employees? #2 I think Uber has too much controller here. *Are the business aspects of the worker's job controlled by the payer? Yes rates can and are changed at anytime *

*Common Law Rules*
Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:


Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker's job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?


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## notfussy

UberTaxPro said:


> *for the 1st year is it simply $3160 / 20% which equals $15,800?*
> yes. For cars, the deduction limitations for the first three tax years are $3,160, $5,100, and $3,050, respectively, and $1,875.
> 
> Help I don't understand this stuff. I will be looking at a professional this year. I havent kept a log of miles but i could go back on dashboard and get it? I didnt keep receipts cus i have online banking is that suffient? My car is not registered commericial and i only do it part time but i also got several bonus for referring people? What is the best way to file? I have 2 kids also? my car is 2013 Ford Focus 40,000 financing it!


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## notfussy

Help I don't understand this stuff. I will be looking at a professional this year. I havent kept a log of miles but i could go back on dashboard and get it? I didnt keep receipts cus i have online banking is that suffient? My car is not registered commericial and i only do it part time but i also got several bonus for referring people? What is the best way to file? I have 2 kids also? my car is 2013 Ford Focus 40,000 financing it!


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## DRiver II

notfussy said:


> Help I don't understand this stuff. I will be looking at a professional this year. I havent kept a log of miles but i could go back on dashboard and get it? I didnt keep receipts cus i have online banking is that suffient? My car is not registered commericial and i only do it part time but i also got several bonus for referring people? What is the best way to file? I have 2 kids also? my car is 2013 Ford Focus 40,000 financing it!


Hi, if you didn't keep track of your miles, you could use your trip summaries - which only logs miles when you have a passenger in the car- and multiply by 2. that would be a conservative estimate IMO. However, in the case that you might be audited, you would not have any proof of your miles..

for each mile you get 57.5 cents for 2015 as a deduction, using the 'standard mileage' deduction method. so 1,000 miles = $ 575.00 in deductions for example. its the simplest way to do your taxes and you don't have to worry about calculating depreciation etc.

theres plenty of info in this section of the forum with advice from actual tax pros, which i am not...


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## UbernaryJames

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Are Safe Rider Fees deductible just as a parking fee or toll are deductible? If yes, why? If not, why not?


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## bobby747

question, if i grossed 42,000 on uberx with 5k trips and went thur 1 car i lost money on and am avg 1000 miles per week. is it possible that tax libility will be zero.
many days i dont earn .56 cents per mile. also 42k is before 20% uber
thanks in advance
bob


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## UberTaxPro

UbernaryJames said:


> Are Safe Rider Fees deductible just as a parking fee or toll are deductible? If yes, why? If not, why not?


SRF are deductible* if *they're included in your 1099 gross. If if included on 1099 they're an expense you've already paid out to Uber.


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## UberTaxPro

bobby747 said:


> question, if i grossed 42,000 on uberx with 5k trips and went thur 1 car i lost money on and am avg 1000 miles per week. is it possible that tax libility will be zero.
> many days i dont earn .56 cents per mile. also 42k is before 20% uber
> thanks in advance
> bob


yes its certainly possible. Does the 42K include SRF also? Do you have a mileage log not just a yearly estimate?


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## bobby747

i think its with all minus SRF AND 20% uber fee. i have a miles log for new car and i upgraded to a new phone from one cell com.y to next.
i lost my miles from my old car. but i have all receipts and will be able to get good guess on my miles . as cars are only for uber 98% . rest we use wifes car.
thanks
bob


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## UbernaryJames

Thank you for the response on the safe drive fee. I'll check the 1099 gross. These deductions are also categorized on my weekly pay summaries. 

There's another question I would like to ask. I traded for a 2014 Mazda 6 in August of 2015. I'm using this car about 75% of the time for business travel connected with Uber and my primary job. I'm compensated for some of my mileage with my primary work. I can take the .575 for mileage for Uber. Are there other expenses such as my auto insurance, interest pd. on Mazda, registration, sales tax, etc. that I may deduct on the purchase of the car in 2015?


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## bobby747

also when , mileage question. if i drive 8 miles to get to my uber location. drive 208 miles all night as thats the only way i can get rides by driving. can i deduct all 200 miles minus 8+ 8 to and from work.
thank


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## Wdsniderman

Is it necessary to log each trip and points between or is it sufficient for IRS to record mileage from start of shift to end (time online)? Basically recording mileage per day.


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## UberTaxPro

Wdsniderman said:


> Is it necessary to log each trip and points between or is it sufficient for IRS to record mileage from start of shift to end (time online)? Basically recording mileage per day.


I'm comfortable with the mileage per day/shift method *backed up by the trip and pay records that Uber keeps for you.* You should should also record your mileage on Jan 1 and Dec 31 of each year. This will come in handy if you need to pro-rate any deductible item like business vehicle loan interest. Ultimately you have to be able to prove that your deductible miles are *business miles. *


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## bobby747

see i am screwed in some ways . i drive say 16 miles to and from city. 
i log say 80 uber miles in 1 night as alot of many 1 way trips. but they are for work only. say nyc 105 miles and back 105. i am offline while back. also moving to a surge area every single day to make a living. as this job pay sucks. but till i find more work it will do. i am killing my 2015 car 11k on it all ready. i am seeking new job fast . 1 year over 5000 trips and still did not break 50k gross.....
as customers never beleive you when you say horrible pay when they ask. they also rate you lower . same as no tipping. its better to lie and say great job making big bucks, as thats what they want to hear.
i am not an accountant . but on 42k with uber . if i had to guess my real pay. and i am great in math. i would say 7k not counting real wear and tear and loans imo


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## Nick Starr

What if we didn't keep logs of our miles? What are our options then?


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## UberTaxPro

Nick Starr said:


> What if we didn't keep logs of our miles? What are our options then?


"What if we didn't keep logs of our miles?"
Not keeping records is not an option when you have your own business. 
"What are our options then?"
Get a W-2 job


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## ClevelandUberRider

(I deleted this note to be nice to tens of millions of us hardworking fellow American workers who get out of our bed every morning, brace the traffic to arrive at our workplace to put in an honest day's hard work.)


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## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here

Are we supposed to pay sales tax?

per: uberpeople DOOT net slash threads slash sales-tax DOOT 2019


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## Nick Starr

UberTaxPro said:


> "What if we didn't keep logs of our miles?"
> Not keeping records is not an option when you have your own business.
> "What are our options then?"
> Get a W-2 job


Snarky passive aggressive attitude isn't what some people are looking for from someone who claims to be trying to help them out. There are certainly a number of people who assumed that Uber would give them their miles, never kept logs, relied on a piece of technology which didn't provide accurate information, or just don't know that they should be keeping logs or data.

What resources or options do those people have? We aren't looking for some ****y answer either, if you want to provide help and answers then it is appreciated, if not then go spread your disdain elsewhere.


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## jan_SD

I'd also like to know about keeping logs/not keeping logs. I don't keep track of how many miles I've driven since I had started. The only records I have would be on the app which doesn't include miles to and from home.. and miles driving waiting for a ping. So are some of you guys saying to guess? Since there's not a proof on exactly how many miles driven would we still be dinged? I've always had a tax preparer do my tax. It's the first year I have to include Uber.


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## UberTaxPro

Nick Starr said:


> Snarky passive aggressive attitude isn't what some people are looking for from someone who claims to be trying to help them out. There are certainly a number of people who assumed that Uber would give them their miles, never kept logs, relied on a piece of technology which didn't provide accurate information, or just don't know that they should be keeping logs or data.
> 
> What resources or options do those people have? We aren't looking for some ****y answer either, if you want to provide help and answers then it is appreciated, if not then go spread your disdain elsewhere.


Snarky? Maybe with the W-2 comment. Passive aggressive? Definitively not. ****y answer? Better to hear it from me first than the IRS later! Spreading disdain? Hopefully it's coming from the tax code and not me. Also, assuming that Uber is keeping your records or just not knowing you needed to keep a log is not a valid argument with the IRS and won't get you anywhere. If you believe you're an employee and not a contractor you can file an IRS form SS-8 to get a determination from the IRS.

Without a mileage log your choices are severely limited. Auto mileage deductions are subject to the strict substantiation requirements of section 274(d). In a nutshell it means no mileage log = no deduction. However, there's always exceptions. The Tax Court had this to say about people without a mileage log looking for a way to prove business miles.* In lieu of a contemporaneous auto log the taxpayer may present corroborative evidence to support his/her reconstruction of the elements of use, but that corroborative evidence must have a high degree of probative value to elevate such statement to the level of credibility of a contemporaneous record. *I think that the trip records that Uber keeps would reach the level of credibility of a contemporaneous record. Unfortunately, they probably don't track all your business miles, but it might be a place to start your "reconstruction". If your still Ubering please start a contemporaneous mileage log for 2016, it's much easier and more cost effective than proving a reconstruction to the IRS or in tax court!


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## UberTaxPro

jan_SD said:


> I'd also like to know about keeping logs/not keeping logs. I don't keep track of how many miles I've driven since I had started. The only records I have would be on the app which doesn't include miles to and from home.. and miles driving waiting for a ping. So are some of you guys saying to guess? Since there's not a proof on exactly how many miles driven would we still be dinged? I've always had a tax preparer do my tax. It's the first year I have to include Uber.


You really need to be keeping a contemporaneous mileage log! The IRS is a real hard-ass about this issue. There is lots of info on here about contemporaneous mileage logs just search it out and get one started immediately! If your using the standard mileage deduction(as most do) it will most likely be your largest business deduction. It's not that hard to do and it's worth a lot of $$$ to you so "just do it". Just bring a summary of your mileage log to your tax guy/girl with your tax info and your done! Simple.
You can read the above post to Nick Starr about your choices if you don't have a mileage log. The way I see it Uber drivers have no choice but to keep a contemporaneous mileage log. If your involved in an audit and the IRS knows your working from "reconstructed" records its like being down 4 points in a basketball game with .01 seconds on the clock and your shooting a three from 35 ft! Yeah you might get fouled and make the shot and foul shot.....but I doubt it.


----------



## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here

Nick Starr said:


> Snarky passive aggressive attitude isn't what some people are looking for from someone who claims to be trying to help them out. There are certainly a number of people who assumed that Uber would give them their miles, never kept logs, relied on a piece of technology which didn't provide accurate information, or just don't know that they should be keeping logs or data.
> 
> What resources or options do those people have? We aren't looking for some ****y answer either, if you want to provide help and answers then it is appreciated, if not then go spread your disdain elsewhere.





UberTaxPro said:


> Snarky? Maybe with the W-2 comment. Passive aggressive? Definitively not. ****y answer? Better to hear it from me first than the IRS later! Spreading disdain? Hopefully it's coming from the tax code and not me. Also, assuming that Uber is keeping your records or just not knowing you needed to keep a log is not a valid argument with the IRS and won't get you anywhere. If you believe you're an employee and not a contractor you can file an IRS form SS-8 to get a determination from the IRS.
> 
> Without a mileage log your choices are severely limited. Auto mileage deductions are subject to the strict substantiation requirements of section 274(d). In a nutshell it means no mileage log = no deduction. However, there's always exceptions. The Tax Court had this to say about people without a mileage log looking for a way to prove business miles.* In lieu of a contemporaneous auto log the taxpayer may present corroborative evidence to support his/her reconstruction of the elements of use, but that corroborative evidence must have a high degree of probative value to elevate such statement to the level of credibility of a contemporaneous record. *I think that the trip records that Uber keeps would reach the level of credibility of a contemporaneous record. Unfortunately, they probably don't track all your business miles, but it might be a place to start your "reconstruction". If your still Ubering please start a contemporaneous mileage log for 2016, it's much easier and more cost effective than proving a reconstruction to the IRS or in tax court!


Enough rough talk, please.
Let the record stand that some useful facts are on the floor.


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## ClevelandUberRider

(I deleted this post. This should be left to tax pros.)


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## UberPissed

Nick Starr said:


> Snarky passive aggressive attitude isn't what some people are looking for from someone who claims to be trying to help them out. There are certainly a number of people who assumed that Uber would give them their miles, never kept logs, relied on a piece of technology which didn't provide accurate information, or just don't know that they should be keeping logs or data.
> 
> What resources or options do those people have? We aren't looking for some ****y answer either, if you want to provide help and answers then it is appreciated, if not then go spread your disdain elsewhere.


I thought it was pretty funny 

In light of trying to be helpful:

Deductions are a matter of legislative grace, and a taxpayer bears the burden of proving entitlement to any claimed deductions. INDOPCO, Inc. v. Commissioner, 503 U.S. 79, 84 (1992); New Colonial Ice Co. v. Helvering, 292 U.S. 434, 440 (1934). Taxpayers must maintain records sufficient to substantiate the amounts of the deductions claimed. Ronnen v. Commissioner, 90 T.C. 74, 102 (1988). Credible testimony may establish a reasonable basis for allowing most deductions and credits. Cohan v. Commissioner, 39 F.2d 540 (2d Cir. 1930); Union Carbide Corp. & Subs. v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 2009-50 (commonly referred to as the Cohan rule). Generally, if a taxpayer incurs a deductible expense but cannot prove the exact amount, a court will make "as close an approximation as it can," provided there is some basis upon which the estimate be made, rather than disallow the deduction entirely. Cohan, 39 F.2d at 543-44; Vanicek v. Commissioner, 85 T.C. 731, 742-743 (1985). If the taxpayer establishes that the failure to substantiate is due to a loss of the records through circumstances beyond the taxpayer's control, "such as destruction by fire, flood, earthquake, or other casualty," the taxpayer may substantiate the deduction by reasonable reconstruction of the records. Gizzi v. Commissioner, 65 T.C. 342, 345 (1976) (quoting sec. 1.274-5T(c)(5), Temporary Income Tax Regs., 50 Fed. Reg. 46022 (Nov. 6, 1985)) (emphasis added).

Business expenses with respect to "listed property" may not be estimated under the Cohan rule because of the strict substantiation requirements of section 274(d), which supersedes Cohan (see Boyd v. Commissioner, 122 T.C. 305, 320 (2004)). The heightened substantiation requirements apply to travel expenses and listed property set forth in section 280F(d)(4). *Listed property includes passenger automobiles and other property used for transportation*. Sec. 280F(d)(4)(A)(i) and (ii). In order to deduct these business expenses, the taxpayer must meet the more stringent substantiation requirements of section 274(d). Section 274(d) requires that the substantiation be made by "adequate records" or "sufficient corroborative evidence." Section 274(d) (flush language). Adequate records for an expenditure require: (1) a record of the expenses (such as an account book, diary, log, statement of expense, trip sheets, or other similar record); and (2) documentary evidence (such as receipts or paid bills). Treas. Reg. § 1.274-5(b). Corroborative evidence used to support a taxpayer's reconstruction of expenditures "'must have a high degree of probative value to elevate such statement' to the level of credibility of a contemporaneous record." Larson v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 2008-187, slip op. at 11 (quoting section 1.274-5T(c)(1), Temporary Income Tax Regs., 50 Fed. Reg. 46016 (Nov. 6, 1985)).

So what the hell does all of this mean? If you don't have a log, you better have something that is close to it - do you have service records? Can you print out your trip history for each ride (tedious, but you can at least fill in the gaps).


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## RoPaDriver

Uber Tax Guy - first, thank you for offering your expertise. Much appreciated! I am refinancing my condo and my bank is requiring me to do a P&L Statement for my Uber driving (all friggin 6 weeks of it in 2015!). So, if I've been following all the earlier posts accurately, the following can be deducted on my taxes (and P&L statement):

Standard mileage
Car Washes
Uber passenger fee and cut
car supplies (water, chargers, etc.)
Percentage of car load interest 
My apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but where would I find the $ amount of loan interest and how much can I deduct? I'm guessing that I take the percentage of my Uber miles vs. total miles and that I can deduct that percentage of my car loan interest???

Also, what line on a P&L statement (and 1040) do the non-mileage deductions go?


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## UberTaxPro

RoPaDriver said:


> Uber Tax Guy - first, thank you for offering your expertise. Much appreciated! I am refinancing my condo and my bank is requiring me to do a P&L Statement for my Uber driving (all friggin 6 weeks of it in 2015!). So, if I've been following all the earlier posts accurately, the following can be deducted on my taxes (and P&L statement):
> 
> Standard mileage
> Car Washes
> Uber passenger fee and cut
> car supplies (water, chargers, etc.)
> Percentage of car load interest
> My apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but where would I find the $ amount of loan interest and how much can I deduct? I'm guessing that I take the percentage of my Uber miles vs. total miles and that I can deduct that percentage of my car loan interest???
> 
> Also, what line on a P&L statement (and 1040) do the non-mileage deductions go?


*Also, what line on a P&L statement (and 1040) do the non-mileage deductions go?*
On your tax return all your rideshare deductions will go on Schedule C (Form 1040), Profit or Loss from Business. The schedule C is very much like a P/L statement, it's even called "Profit or Loss from Business" in its title. The Schedule C is like a P/L for tax purposes. A financial (book)P/L is similar to a Schedule C but doesn't have to follow the tax rules. For example, on your Schedule C you will include the standard mileage deduction and on a book P/L you might use actual expenses. Or, on a schedule C you can't deduct a traffic ticket but on your book P/L the ticket would show up as a loss.

Is the Bank asking for your 2015 tax returns also? (probably not because they don't expect you to have them done yet). If they want a book P/L you'll have a little more control than if they want a copy of your schedule C.

*where would I find the $ amount of loan interest and how much can I deduct?* From your loan originator (bank). Don't you get a statement?

*I'm guessing that I take the percentage of my Uber miles vs. total miles and that I can deduct that percentage of my car loan interest??? *yes, you got it!


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## UberPissed

RoPaDriver said:


> Uber Tax Guy - first, thank you for offering your expertise. Much appreciated! I am refinancing my condo and my bank is requiring me to do a P&L Statement for my Uber driving (all friggin 6 weeks of it in 2015!). So, if I've been following all the earlier posts accurately, the following can be deducted on my taxes (and P&L statement):
> 
> Standard mileage
> Car Washes
> Uber passenger fee and cut
> car supplies (water, chargers, etc.)
> Percentage of car load interest
> My apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but where would I find the $ amount of loan interest and how much can I deduct? I'm guessing that I take the percentage of my UBER miles vs. total miles and that I can deduct that percentage of my car loan interest???
> 
> Also, what line on a P&L statement (and 1040) do the non-mileage deductions go?


Start with income - all income - then deduct the SRF, commission, related expenses (wash, interest, supplies) then take .54 x miles to get your net profit.

THen you should make a 15.2% allocation for SEP tax.

I can't imagine a bank letting you refinance with the numbers that come out, but I hope it works out.

Non-mileage deductions would be under commuting miles, which I believe are in part 3 of the schedule C. They don't show up on a 1040.


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## UberTaxPro

UberPissed said:


> I thought it was pretty funny
> 
> In light of trying to be helpful:
> 
> Deductions are a matter of legislative grace, and a taxpayer bears the burden of proving entitlement to any claimed deductions. INDOPCO, Inc. v. Commissioner, 503 U.S. 79, 84 (1992); New Colonial Ice Co. v. Helvering, 292 U.S. 434, 440 (1934).


*"Deductions are a matter of legislative grace, and a taxpayer bears the burden of proving entitlement to any claimed deductions."*
Seems to me that at least 50% of the public doesn't know, understand or is ignoring this! Once you understand this everything else starts to fall into place! Thanks for pointing it out UberPissed


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## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here

Mods, please make this last bit a sticky.


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## HOUTXRon

Hi There!

Which IRS Business Code, do you guys think, could uber drivers use? I was thinking 485990, since TNCs are not specifically listed.

Below is partial info from IRS website (here) on the topic:

*Transit and Ground Passenger Transportation*
485110 - Urban Transit Systems
485210 - Interurban & Rural Bus Transportation
485310 - Taxi Service
485320 - Limousine Service
485410 - School & Employee Bus Transportation
485510 - Charter Bus Industry
485990 - Other Transit & Ground Passenger Transportation

Thanks for sharing the info and for all your help!


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## ClevelandUberRider

HOUTXRon said:


> Hi There!
> 
> Which IRS Business Code, do you guys think, could uber drivers use? I was thinking 485990, since TNCs are not specifically listed.
> 
> Below is partial info from IRS website (here) on the topic:
> 
> *Transit and Ground Passenger Transportation*
> 485110 - Urban Transit Systems
> 485210 - Interurban & Rural Bus Transportation
> 485310 - Taxi Service
> 485320 - Limousine Service
> 485410 - School & Employee Bus Transportation
> 485510 - Charter Bus Industry
> 485990 - Other Transit & Ground Passenger Transportation
> 
> Thanks for sharing the info and for all your help!


Sir Mr. UberTaxPro?


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## UberTaxPro

HOUTXRon said:


> Hi There!
> 
> Which IRS Business Code, do you guys think, could uber drivers use? I was thinking 485990, since TNCs are not specifically listed.
> 
> Below is partial info from IRS website (here) on the topic:
> 
> *Transit and Ground Passenger Transportation*
> 485110 - Urban Transit Systems
> 485210 - Interurban & Rural Bus Transportation
> 485310 - Taxi Service
> 485320 - Limousine Service
> 485410 - School & Employee Bus Transportation
> 485510 - Charter Bus Industry
> 485990 - Other Transit & Ground Passenger Transportation
> 
> Thanks for sharing the info and for all your help!


By process of elimination from the codes you have listed I agree 485990


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## ChattaBilly

I started driving for UBER New Years Eve 2015. Before midnight I grossed 23.52. After midnight I made several hundred dollars. My question is, will UBER send a 1099 to me for 23.52? Thank you.


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## UberTaxPro

ChattaBilly said:


> I started driving for UBER New Years Eve 2015. Before midnight I grossed 23.52. After midnight I made several hundred dollars. My question is, will UBER send a 1099 to me for 23.52? Thank you.


You won't get a 1099 because you didn't make over $600


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## ChattaBilly

Whew. Thank you.


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## ClevelandUberRider

UberTaxPro said:


> By process of elimination from the codes you have listed I agree 485990


From your posts my guess is you have some training or experience in taxes but you have a lot of training in hard sciences too?


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## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> From your posts my guess is you have some training or experience in taxes but you have a lot of training in hard sciences too?





ClevelandUberRider said:


> From your posts my guess is you have some training or experience in taxes but you have a lot of training in hard sciences too?


Along with my keg party experience I earned a BA in Political Science in school. More experience in liquid sciences than hard science I guess!


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## ClevelandUberRider

UberTaxPro said:


> Along with my keg party experience I earned a BA in Political Science in school. More experience in liquid sciences than hard science I guess!


Liquid sciences. LOL.


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## DRiver II

UberTaxPro said:


> You won't get a 1099 because you didn't make over $600


but he supposed to still report it, correct?


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## UberTaxPro

DRiver II said:


> but he supposed to still report it, correct?


Absolutely supposed to!


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## ClevelandUberRider

UberTaxPro said:


> Absolutely supposed to!


(Deleted post. I felt it should be left to tax pros.)


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## BigSlick

I live in the suburbs were there is very little demand so I drive about 20 miles into the city to work. I bought meals in the city between rides. Is that deductible?


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## UberPissed

Miles yes, Meals no.


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## UberPasco

UberTaxPro said:


> 1. The method you use keep track of your data doesn't matter as long as the proper data is being kept on a daily basis.
> 2. In addition to the standard mileage deduction self-employed taxpayers may deduct car loan interest, provided they deduct only that portion related to business use of the vehicle. I *believe* mileage would be the way to pro-rate because it is vehicle related.
> 3. To be deductible miles must be "business" miles. If your dead miles are ordinary and necessary business like you describe and you have a mileage log to prove it.....yes
> 4. You might be able to deduct the whole cost in one year by using a section 179 deduction. There are some limits and requirements. One requirement is that the 179 deduction(cost of phone) cannot exceed your business taxable income. However, you can carry forward any unused portion for an unlimited # of years.


For clarity to all drivers:
For tax purposes, there are only two categories of mileage. 
A) Business and B) Personal.
In this 'profession', Business miles are miles driven while performing your job. This includes driving with passengers, driving to get your car washed/detailed, cruising for passengers, and relocating to a 'better' area (IE. deadheading back from a remote airport dropoff). Whether the app is on or off has no bearing on this determination. Your contemporaneous mileage log does.
Personal miles are everything else. Driving to your "start area" *(see below), running errands during your shift, and driving home after your shift (even back from that remote airport dropoff!), and going to Aunt Betsy's house are all examples of this. 
*Negligible miles during your shift like grabbing lunch can still be classified as business. Also, if you are likely to receive a ping while at home you *may* include all miles driven that day to your first pickup, provided that you are looking for work in that area. If you start the day and hightail it down the interstate, not so much.
I can't stress enough how important your mileage log is. Also do not attempt to fabricate it. Either try to reconstruct as accurately as possible with supporting documentation, or forego the deduction. Most likely the outcome will be the same.


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## UberTaxPro

UberPasco said:


> For clarity to all drivers:
> For tax purposes, there are only two categories of mileage.
> A) Business and B) Personal.


"For tax purposes, there are only two categories of mileage. 
A) Business and B) Personal."

For tax purposes, there is also C ) medical, moving and D )charitable


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## UberPasco

UberTaxPro said:


> "For tax purposes, there are only two categories of mileage.
> A) Business and B) Personal."
> 
> For tax purposes, there is also C ) medical, moving and D )charitable


 Yes, I meant those that would pertain to the vast majority of those on a TNC web board.


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## Mthawkins

I use about 80% of my car for uber. I actually got the car 6 months ago for uber. I didn't start following my online miles without a pax till last month or so. Would it be cool for me to estimate the miles based on the 80% usage on taxes?


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## UberTaxPro

Mthawkins said:


> I use about 80% of my car for uber. I actually got the car 6 months ago for uber. I didn't start following my online miles without a pax till last month or so. Would it be cool for me to estimate the miles based on the 80% usage on taxes?


The 80% usage might work for other items like cell phone use but for vehicle mileage you really need a mileage log.


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## UberPasco

Mthawkins said:


> I use about 80% of my car for uber. I actually got the car 6 months ago for uber. I didn't start following my online miles without a pax till last month or so. Would it be cool for me to estimate the miles based on the 80% usage on taxes?


If you have your daily start/end mileage, you could reasonably account for your "commute" mileage by using mapquest to calculate the distance from you first pickup/last dropoff via your daily statements. Huge pain in the ass, would probably undercount business miles, but would most likely satisfy an IRS auditor.


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## joeactuary

UberPasco said:


> If you have your daily start/end mileage, you could reasonably account for your "commute" mileage by using mapquest to calculate the distance from you first pickup/last dropoff via your daily statements. Huge pain in the ass, would probably undercount business miles, but would most likely satisfy an IRS auditor.


Funny. No, if you were at the point where you are talking to an IRS auditor, then no, it would not satisfy an IRS auditor. The IRS auditor will need to see a tax compliant mileage log.

And i wouldn't use the phrase "Commute Mileage" when talking to an IRS auditor either!


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## UberPasco

IF he had his shift start/end mileage documented, he could very easily be judged compliant using the method I described. And commute is the common term for the unreimbursable travel getting to and from a worksite. It would not confuse anyone as to where it should be classified.


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## joeactuary

If it gets to the point where you're being audited (beyond examination or information gathering), you're going to need that contemporaneous mileage log or the mileage is going to be disallowed. 
Daily start and end data is not going to work. Backtracking estimated "Commuting mileage" is not going to satisfy the auditor. That is why everyone is recommended to keep a compliant mileage log.


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## Mthawkins

Besides the point, I don't expect to be audited with such little time and money. That would be mad. I believe I've put around 5000 miles on my car for uber.
If it's really that unsafe guessing mileage used, then would it be best to use car payments and gas? I have receipts for the first couple months. I k ow how much I pay each week for gas as well. I have bank statements at least.


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## UberTaxPro

Mthawkins said:


> Besides the point, I don't expect to be audited with such little time and money. That would be mad. I believe I've put around 5000 miles on my car for uber.
> If it's really that unsafe guessing mileage used, then would it be best to use car payments and gas? I have receipts for the first couple months. I k ow how much I pay each week for gas as well. I have bank statements at least.


If you decide to use the actual expense method you should know that you'll have to stay with that method for future years with the same vehicle. You can't switch from actual expenses to standard mileage. You can switch from standard mileage to actual expense once for the same vehicle.


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## gman

ChattaBilly said:


> I started driving for UBER New Years Eve 2015. Before midnight I grossed 23.52. After midnight I made several hundred dollars. My question is, will UBER send a 1099 to me for 23.52? Thank you.


Any money made on NYE will not be paid until 2016, so all of it, including the $23.52 will be income for tax year 2016.


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## ClevelandUberRider

gman said:


> Any money made on NYE will not be paid until 2016, so all of it, including the $23.52 will be income for tax year 2016.


It depends on whether the taxpayer uses "accrual" or cash accounting. If taxpayer uses the accrual accounting method, then all incomes are considered income when they are earned, not when they are paid. Similarly, all expenses are considered expenses when they are incurred, not when they are paid. But, given the fact that most TNC drivers likely use cash method of accounting, maybe GMan is correct? But shouldn't drivers just follow the 1099?

Mr. UberTaxPro, would you mind weighing in on this?


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## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> It depends on whether the taxpayer uses "accrual" or cash accounting. If taxpayer uses the accrual accounting method, then all incomes are considered income when they are earned, not when they are paid. Similarly, all expenses are considered expenses when they are incurred, not when they are paid. But, given the fact that most TNC drivers likely use cash method of accounting, maybe GMan is correct? But shouldn't drivers just follow the 1099?
> 
> Mr. UberTaxPro, would you mind weighing in on this?


If GMan uses cash accounting the issue is *Constructive Reciept *I've gotta run some errands so I'll just copy some IRS info here for now:

*Constructive receipt.* Income is constructively received when an amount is credited to your account or made available to you without restriction. You need not have possession of it. If you authorize someone to be your agent and receive income for you, you are considered to have received it when your agent receives it. Income is not constructively received if your control of its receipt is subject to substantial restrictions or limitations.
*Example.*
You are a calendar year taxpayer. Your bank credited, and made available, interest to your bank account in December 2012. You did not withdraw it or enter it into your books until 2013. You must include the amount in gross income for 2012, the year you constructively received it.


----------



## docswife

How much of your cell phone bill should be deducted? What are you guys doing?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

ClevelandUberRider said:


> (I deleted this post. This should be left to tax pros.)


OMG IF YOU'RE GOING TO CONSTANTLY DELETE THINGS STOP POSTING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Also stop with the "edit: corrected spelling" BS please. Waste of time to do or read. Just edit without comment unless it's a glaring mistake that needs to be pointed out.

The only thing you could do that's more annoying is start using the word surgey.


----------



## UberXTampa

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


I got in an accident and had to repair my car. Can I deduct that?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberTaxPro said:


> "For tax purposes, there are only two categories of mileage.
> A) Business and B) Personal."
> 
> For tax purposes, there is also C ) medical, moving and D )charitable


And mileage from one job to another.

Also there's the distinction between unreimbursed expenses as an employee vs. those as a business owner. I have both since I also deliver pizza and am PARTIALLY reimbursed for mileage there.


----------



## gman

ClevelandUberRider said:


> It depends on whether the taxpayer uses "accrual" or cash accounting. If taxpayer uses the accrual accounting method, then all incomes are considered income when they are earned, not when they are paid. Similarly, all expenses are considered expenses when they are incurred, not when they are paid. But, given the fact that most TNC drivers likely use cash method of accounting, maybe GMan is correct? But shouldn't drivers just follow the 1099?
> 
> Mr. UberTaxPro, would you mind weighing in on this?


I'm not only right, I'm damn right. It's called "constructive receipt":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_receipt

In this case the OP can't just go by the 1099's, because he's not going to get one for 2015. So if he claims the $23.52 for 2015 he's going to be taxed twice on that money, as it will show up on his 2016 1099 next year.


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberXTampa said:


> I got in an accident and had to repair my car. Can I deduct that?


It's a Casualty Loss


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Fuzzyelvis said:


> OMG IF YOU'RE GOING TO CONSTANTLY DELETE THINGS STOP POSTING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
> 
> Also stop with the "edit: corrected spelling" BS please. Waste of time to do or read. Just edit without comment unless it's a glaring mistake that needs to be pointed out.
> 
> The only thing you could do that's more annoying is start using the word surgey.


Why are you so rude?

You and Michael are really made for each other. Equally rude.

I spent the time to correct the errors so that my post has less typos. And what did I get from you? Negative comments.

You and Michael are really something.

And what is "surgey"? You meant Surgey Brin?

Different people write differently. Different people have different taste, some like it, some don't. You and Michael seem to be very rude to people who write things that you do not agree with. Your comments always have this holier than thou attitude. I have seen a lot of grandma and grandpa like that. But to have people like you trying to control people here is too much!

You and Michael remind me of losers who suddenly are given a little bit of power and they want to boss everyone around.


----------



## bobby747

what version of turbo tax should i buy? thank you in advance


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

I own 2 cars and use one for UBER strictly and one for personal.
Can I just take the miles I started with in July to present date and use those miles to file?


----------



## UberTaxPro

Coffeekeepsmedriving said:


> I own 2 cars and use one for UBER strictly and one for personal.
> Can I just take the miles I started with in July to present date and use those miles to file?


Even if you use 1 car 100% for business you have to be able to prove it with a mileage log. The fact that you use the car 100% for business is not enough to prove business miles if you were ever audited.


----------



## LAuberX

bobby747 said:


> what version of turbo tax should i buy? thank you in advance


Home and Business 2015, you can do it all online for $79.99 or buy the CD (online saves it in the cloud for free)


----------



## jdillinge

Is it possible to write off massages or chiropractic work due to sitting long hours?


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

jdillinge said:


> Is it possible to write off massages or chiropractic work due to sitting long hours?


Haha.

Also, the CPA tax prep fee, becausec TNC driving has caused drivers' permanent brain damage, making drivers unable to figure out their taxes on their own.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

bobby747 said:


> what version of turbo tax should i buy? thank you in advance


If you buy the CD, the Deluxe version of TT is all you need. Costco sells it for $49.95, was $10 off in late Dec.
If you are doing it online or downloading the program, you do need to upgrade to Home and Business.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

M


jdillinge said:


> Is it possible to write off massages or chiropractic work due to sitting long hours?


Massages have been shown to have therapeutic effects on back pain so I would imagine you could deduct ghat under medical expenses (if yours are high enough--has to be over a certain % of your income). But you might need a prescription.

If I got massages I would probably do it. The chiropractic I'm sure you could put under medical.


----------



## UberTaxPro

jdillinge said:


> Is it possible to write off massages or chiropractic work due to sitting long hours?


It might depend on where you get your massages!


----------



## soupergloo

This might be a lot to ask for, but I need some guidance on filing my taxes through Turbotax Home & Business. I've read all of the threads on here, but they're kind of all over the place and right now it's saying I owe around $4,000 in taxes. If I give someone all of my info, is there anyone that'd be willing to help me?


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Fuzzyelvis said:


> M
> 
> Massages have been shown to have therapeutic effects on back pain so I would imagine you could deduct ghat under medical expenses (if yours are high enough--has to be over a certain % of your income). But you might need a prescription.
> 
> If I got massages I would probably do it. The chiropractic I'm sure you could put under medical.


For most taxpayers who have FT salaried W-2 income here, that percentage is probably too high to meet.



soupergloo said:


> This might be a lot to ask for, but I need some guidance on filing my taxes through Turbotax Home & Business. I've read all of the threads on here, but they're kind of all over the place and right now it's saying I owe around $4,000 in taxes. If I give someone all of my info, is there anyone that'd be willing to help me?


Did you remember to send in your quarterly estimated taxes every quarter during tax year 2015?


----------



## soupergloo

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Did you remember to send in your quarterly estimated taxes every quarter during tax year 2015?


I'm not sure what that means, but I haven't filed taxes at all for 2015 yet; the last time I filed was January 2015 for earnings in 2014.


----------



## soupergloo

I'm just going to post my info. on here in hopes that someone out there can help me.

I received a W-2 from my employer that I worked at for half of the year ($18,085.90 in wages / $2,934.86 tax withheld / $1,121.33 social security tax withheld / $262.25 medicare tax withheld / $596.30 state income tax).

Also received a 1098-T from SF State ($5,327 tuition & related expenses)

Lyft Summary: $16,567.46 (gross) or $13,599.07 (net)

Uber 1099-K: $18,836.70 (gross)

I didn't keep a mileage log, so my only option is to count the miles driven given by Lyft (8,435.85 miles) & Uber (6,723 miles). I've entered everything I've stated to the best of my ability with all of the information provided on these forums, and TurboTax is coming back with a federal refund of $46 and CA Refund of $33 OWED.

When I enter my earnings, do I enter them as gross or net? If I enter my 1099-K from Uber, do I also have to input my 1099-MISC from Uber as well? The only thing I've tried deducting is mileage, safe rider fee and cell phone use.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Did you deduct the commission Uber takes from the gross along with the SRF? And yes, you have to report whatever they give you on a 1099. You will have to pay those same FICA taxes on your net self employment income, but on this it is both the employer's share and yours, totaling 15.3%. Sounds like that may be where you are getting hit hardest.
The quarterly estimated taxes are what self employed people pay, just like your former employer did with the money they held back out of your pay, along with the employer matching share.
I'm sure you have started a contemporaneous mileage log now, right?
Did you deduct the education expenses and any other qualifying items, like medical insurance, car VLF and other taxes?
Earlier you said you owed $4000 in taxes, but now you are showing a small refund, and you had paid in $2934 with your W2 employment. So you must have made some headway?


----------



## soupergloo

Older Chauffeur said:


> Did you deduct the commission Uber takes from the gross along with the SRF? And yes, you have to report whatever they give you on a 1099. You will have to pay those same FICA taxes on your net self employment income, but on this it is both the employer's share and yours, totaling 15.3%. Sounds like that may be where you are getting hit hardest.
> The quarterly estimated taxes are what self employed people pay, just like your former employer did with the money they held back out of your pay, along with the employer matching share.
> I'm sure you have started a contemporaneous mileage log now, right?
> Did you deduct the education expenses and any other qualifying items, like medical insurance, car VLF and other taxes?
> Earlier you said you owed $4000 in taxes, but now you are showing a small refund, and you had paid in $2934 with your W2 employment. So you must have made some headway?


Lol yes, definitely keeping a mileage log now.

Originally I didn't input my 1099-MISC ($4,053.08), but now that I've done that and removed the safe rider fee from my Uber earnings (I did remove the Uber commission from the earnings already) .. my federal refund now says $720 OWED and State $183 OWED.

I inputted the 1098-T and had TurboTax walk me through it, and it helped a lot, but apparently not enough.

I only held medical insurance while I was employed before I quit to become an Uber driver for about 8 months of the year in 2015, but I don't know how to deduct anything for that. I don't know what car VLF means and I don't know what "other taxes" would entail.

Thank you so much for your response, Older Chauffeur


----------



## Annapolis Ghostrider

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread.

Questions may be coming but I think I can navigate with what has already been posted.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

soupergloo said:


> Lol yes, definitely keeping a mileage log now.
> 
> Originally I didn't input my 1099-MISC ($4,053.08), but now that I've done that and removed the safe rider fee from my Uber earnings (I did remove the Uber commission from the earnings already) .. my federal refund now says $720 OWED and State $183 OWED.
> 
> I inputted the 1098-T and had TurboTax walk me through it, and it helped a lot, but apparently not enough.
> 
> I only held medical insurance while I was employed before I quit to become an Uber driver for about 8 months of the year in 2015, but I don't know how to deduct anything for that. I don't know what car VLF means and I don't know what "other taxes" would entail.
> 
> Thank you so much for your response, Older Chauffeur


VLF is the amount of your car registration fees based on value, and it is deductible on your federal return. Check your bill from the DMV for the breakdown of fees, and it is marked accordingly. Other taxes are personal property, real estate taxes, state tax from last year, etc. Sales tax on large items like cars can be added to the average sales tax computation based on income. Did you buy a car this year to Uber? (someone mentioned doing that) Sales tax collected at purchase time would be deductible.
Do you have any dependents? Again, TT should have asked you about that.
Medical insurance premiums deducted from your paychecks, along with any out of pocket medical/dental/eyeglasses, etc are deductible. TT should have asked you about those in the step by step questions.
I hope the tax pros weigh in here to help you; I'm by no means an expert. I use a CPA myself, but every year I get TT to play with and see how close I can come to the numbers my guy uses on my returns.


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

I have 7,000 on trip miles, 5,000 to pick up rider miles, and 4,500 miscellaneous miles.
Total of 16,600 miles.
gas is $2,200.00
other expensive are $1,500.00 ....car wash repair,water etc
filing single, rent apt and nothing else simple.
Does the gas with the money work out right? and can somebody do a fast calulation?
thanks


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Coffeekeepsmedriving said:


> I have 7,000 on trip miles, 5,000 to pick up rider miles, and 4,500 miscellaneous miles.
> Total of 16,600 miles.
> gas is $2,200.00
> other expensive are $1,500.00 ....car wash repair,water etc
> filing single, rent apt and nothing else simple.
> Does the gas with the money work out right? and can somebody do a fast calulation?
> thanks


Can't do it with just this info- what was your income from rideshare and other sources? Any W2 income or tax witholding?
Gas costs inconsequential, as you will do better using the standard mileage rate of .575 per mile, or $6900 based on 12000 miles. Do you have a log to back that up? Estimates won't cut it if you are audited. Car washes and water can be deducted as business expenses, again with records/ receipts.
I would suggest that you use TurboTax or a similar tax prep program that includes Schedule C, (business profit and loss.)
I'm not a tax expert, but there are some people here who are pros, maybe they can help.


----------



## Veller

I guess if I washed my car at self wash stations, which don't provide receipts I can't claim them as deductions, right?


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Veller said:


> I guess if I washed my car at self wash stations, which don't provide receipts I can't claim them as deductions, right?


Join one of those unlimited monthly wash programs, where you get a receipt, and you can wash your program-registered car anytime without much personal efforts with just a couple dollars of tip for the boys (sometimes girls).


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

soupergloo said:


> Lol yes, definitely keeping a mileage log now.
> 
> Originally I didn't input my 1099-MISC ($4,053.08), but now that I've done that and removed the safe rider fee from my Uber earnings (I did remove the Uber commission from the earnings already) .. my federal refund now says $720 OWED and State $183 OWED.
> 
> I inputted the 1098-T and had TurboTax walk me through it, and it helped a lot, but apparently not enough.
> 
> I only held medical insurance while I was employed before I quit to become an Uber driver for about 8 months of the year in 2015, but I don't know how to deduct anything for that. I don't know what car VLF means and I don't know what "other taxes" would entail.
> 
> Thank you so much for your response, Older Chauffeur


You do realize the IRS frowns upon non-licensed people giving out advice or comments on real life, specific tax matters like yours right?


----------



## soupergloo

ClevelandUberRider said:


> You do realize the IRS frowns upon non-licensed people giving out advice or comments on real life, specific tax matters like yours right?


I do now


----------



## Older Chauffeur

ClevelandUberRider said:


> You do realize the IRS frowns upon non-licensed people giving out advice or comments on real life, specific tax matters like yours right?


So do you think the folks at H and R Block are all "licensed ?" How about the volunteers at senior citizen centers, veterans centers, low income tax help volunteers, et cetera? Just what license is required? It isn't like it is a regulated industry.
Do you ever remember reading about surveys in which the same questions were asked of several different tax experts at the IRS, and all gave different answers?
Nobody posting is charging for posting suggestions or advice, BTW.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Older Chauffeur said:


> So do you think the folks at H and R Block are all "licensed ?" How about the volunteers at senior citizen centers, veterans centers, low income tax help volunteers, et cetera? Just what license is required? It isn't like it is a regulated industry.
> Do you ever remember reading about surveys in which the same questions were asked of several different tax experts at the IRS, and all gave different answers?
> Nobody posting is charging for posting suggestions or advice, BTW.


Anyone can prepare taxes by getting a PTIN # from the IRS. No qualifications, go online and pay the $50 fee and your good to go. https://rpr.irs.gov/datamart/mainMenuUSIRS.do;jsessionid=15AB2B006E73657E1A36F6B81BB87BD4.bm9kZTT
The only "licensed tax practitioners" are:
Enrolled Agents - licensed by the Dept. of Treasury (Federal License) 
C.P.A. - licensed by individual states 
Attorney - licensed by individual states
All of the above can represent taxpayers before the IRS


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Older Chauffeur said:


> So do you think the folks at H and R Block are all "licensed ?" How about the volunteers at senior citizen centers, veterans centers, low income tax help volunteers, et cetera? Just what license is required? It isn't like it is a regulated industry.
> Do you ever remember reading about surveys in which the same questions were asked of several different tax experts at the IRS, and all gave different answers?
> Nobody posting is charging for posting suggestions or advice, BTW.


1. The tax advisory and tax prep business/professions used to be much less lenient than they are now. They used to allow P.A.s or anyone else to prepare tax returns for pay or no charge to anybody. Now these professions are highly regulated. If one helps more than X number of their family or friends with their tax returns (maybe some posters know what X figure is), they will have to register with the IRS.

2. Seniors centers, libraries, colleges, veteran centers, etc., when they organize those volunteer tax help sessions, they typically are approved or recognized or in association with the IRS with forms, flyers, etc. provided by the IRS. Here posters are not.

3. Notice I didn't say it is definitely illegal, I say "frowns upon". It is in the grey area, hence conflicting opinions.

It's personal choice and style, even habit. Some like to go into the grey areas. Some like to just push it to the edge of the grey area. Many still, prefer to stay far away from any grey area.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

UberTaxPro said:


> Anyone can prepare taxes by getting a PTIN # from the IRS. No qualifications, go online and pay the $50 fee and your good to go. https://rpr.irs.gov/datamart/mainMenuUSIRS.do;jsessionid=15AB2B006E73657E1A36F6B81BB87BD4.bm9kZTT
> The only "licensed tax practitioners" are:
> Enrolled Agents - licensed by the Dept. of Treasury (Federal License)
> C.P.A. - licensed by individual states
> Attorney - licensed by individual states
> All of the above can represent taxpayers before the IRS


I am learning here, no huge egos.

What is the number of tax returns filed for others above which one has to enroll / register to get a PTIN?

After getting a PTIN, can the person file income tax returns for the public for a fee?

After getting a PTIN, can the person provide professional tax advice to his/her clients on top of filling our tax returns, for a fee?


----------



## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> I am learning here, no huge egos.
> 
> What is the number of tax returns filed for others above which one has to enroll / register to get a PTIN?
> 
> After getting a PTIN, can the person file income tax returns for the public for a fee?
> 
> After getting a PTIN, can the person provide professional tax advice to his/her clients on top of filling our tax returns, for a fee?


In 2011 use of PTIN became mandatory *for all *federal returns and claims prepared by *paid *tax preparers including EA's , CPA's and attorneys.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

I have spoken to tax professionals that say UberX drivers do not qualify for a standard mileage deduction. The reason for this is that Uber pays for the commercial insurance. Essentially, taking the mileage deduction would be taking a deduction for an expense that you did not incur. Uber actually incurred the expense, not the driver.

My question is has the IRS made a ruling or statement on this?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I have spoken to tax professionals that say UberX drivers do not qualify for a standard mileage deduction. The reason for this is that Uber pays for the commercial insurance. Essentially, taking the mileage deduction would be taking a deduction for an expense that you did not incur. Uber actually incurred the expense, not the driver.
> 
> My question is has the IRS made a ruling or statement on this?


Interesting. If the IRS did in fact rule that way, what about a limo service using electric vehicles like the Tesla that don't use gasoline? The standard mileage rate includes gasoline, right? And what about oil changes, which you don't need with an electric vehicle. I'm not a tax expert, but I think the ones you spoke to may be overthinking this one. If the IRS wanted to, I suppose they could establish a cost per mile for each allowed item, and let you take only the portions you actually pay for, but it could get complicated.


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I have spoken to tax professionals that say UberX drivers do not qualify for a standard mileage deduction. The reason for this is that Uber pays for the commercial insurance. Essentially, taking the mileage deduction would be taking a deduction for an expense that you did not incur. Uber actually incurred the expense, not the driver.
> 
> My question is has the IRS made a ruling or statement on this?


No ruling or statement that I've heard. I've also heard this but don't agree because: 1. Drivers could buy additional commercial insurance most just choose not to. 2. Uber's insurance is for Uber's benefit not the drivers.(if it just covered the drivers they wouldn't buy it) 3. Drivers are paying for that commercial insurance through the fees.
I think Older Chauffeur got it right "overthinking"


----------



## LAuberX

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I have spoken to tax professionals that say UberX drivers do not qualify for a standard mileage deduction. The reason for this is that Uber pays for the commercial insurance. Essentially, taking the mileage deduction would be taking a deduction for an expense that you did not incur. Uber actually incurred the expense, not the driver.
> 
> My question is has the IRS made a ruling or statement on this?


Do you or your "tax professionals" have anything in writing from the IRS to back this up?


----------



## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> I am learning here, no huge egos.
> 
> What is the number of tax returns filed for others above which one has to enroll / register to get a PTIN?
> 
> After getting a PTIN, can the person file income tax returns for the public for a fee?
> 
> After getting a PTIN, can the person provide professional tax advice to his/her clients on top of filling our tax returns, for a fee?


After getting a PTIN, can the person provide professional tax advice to his/her clients on top of filling our tax returns, for a fee? Federal regulations (circular 230) state that only enrolled agents, CPAs and attorneys may give tax advice. The Texas Constitution says no law may be passed forbidding anyone from giving an opinion on any subject! Regulations forbidding giving tax advice are federal regulations, not state regulations in Texas. Every state is different


----------



## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> You do realize the IRS frowns upon non-licensed people giving out advice or comments on real life, specific tax matters like yours right?


It's only tax advice if payment is received. They can frown all they want. The constitution affords us the privilege to freely discuss all laws in this country.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Older Chauffeur said:


> I use a CPA myself, but every year I get TT to play with and see how close I can come to the numbers my guy uses on my returns.


So how close do you come?


----------



## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> 1. The tax advisory and tax prep business/professions used to be much less lenient than they are now. They used to allow P.A.s or anyone else to prepare tax returns for pay or no charge to anybody. Now these professions are highly regulated. If one helps more than X number of their family or friends with their tax returns (maybe some posters know what X figure is), they will have to register with the IRS.


Recently the IRS tried to implement the "Registered Tax Return Preparers" program. It would have required all tax preparers to pass an exam. It was challenged in court (Loving Case) and defeated. So for now its just the PTIN requirement for tax preparers


----------



## UberTaxPro

Veller said:


> I guess if I washed my car at self wash stations, which don't provide receipts I can't claim them as deductions, right?


If you paid it deduct it. Record the expense yourself in a log and take a pic of the place if you want! Be careful with car washes however, they may not be deductible if your using the standard mileage deduction.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

LAuberX said:


> Do you or your "tax professionals" have anything in writing from the IRS to back this up?


No, this is what I was looking for because I have received conflicting information.

I really don't want to take advice from a message board. What I'm looking for is a link.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

UberTaxPro said:


> No ruling or statement that I've heard. I've also heard this but don't agree because: 1. Drivers could buy additional commercial insurance most just choose not to. 2. Uber's insurance is for Uber's benefit not the drivers.(if it just covered the drivers they wouldn't buy it) 3. Drivers are paying for that commercial insurance through the fees.
> I think Older Chauffeur got it right "overthinking"


The same thing could be said for credit card processing and advertising as well. UberX Drivers are paying for those expenses through fees. Can they deduct those expenses?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberTaxPro said:


> So how close do you come?


Sometimes very close. I've considered doing the returns myself, just haven't made the leap yet.


----------



## Laura Smith

I usually do my taxes on line, but I do not know where to put the numbers since the 1099-k reports gross receipts and not my own -- so bizarre. On what form in what box do I put numbers? The gross on 1099k goes to schedule C, but where? Then where do I put the deductions that Uber didn't pay me? Thanks.


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> The same thing could be said for credit card processing and advertising as well. UberX Drivers are paying for those expenses through fees. Can they deduct those expenses?


They deduct the fees that have the expenses built in. Same thing. They're also free to purchase their own credit card processing and advertising. Same thing. The cc processing and advertising is purchased by Uber for Uber's benefit. Same thing


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

UberTaxPro said:


> They deduct the fees that have the expenses built in. Same thing. They're also free to purchase their own credit card processing and advertising. Same thing. The cc processing and advertising is purchased by Uber for Uber's benefit. Same thing


So let me get this straight... you are saying that even though Uber pays for commercial insurance, advertising and credit card processing, the driver can still deduct those expenses?


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> So let me get this straight... you are saying that even though Uber pays for commercial insurance, advertising and credit card processing, the driver can still deduct those expenses?


No, I'm saying the driver can still deduct his "fee". 
The standard mileage deduction is made up of different items. It doesn't have to correspond exactly to your actual expenses and its got nothing to do with what you actually pay or who pays it. Here is a link with some info about it: http://www.companymileage.com/howmileageratedetermined.html
The following are the IRS requirements for using the standard mileage deduction. Notice that it doesn't say "you must be the person or entity that actually pays the expenses on your car"
To use the standard mileage rate, you must own or lease the car and:

You must not operate five or more cars at the same time, as in a fleet operation,
You must not have claimed a depreciation deduction for the car using any method other than straight-line,
You must not have claimed a Section 179 deduction on the car,
You must not have claimed the special depreciation allowance on the car,
You must not have claimed actual expenses after 1997 for a car you lease, and
You cannot be a rural mail carrier who received a "qualified reimbursement."


----------



## Diva_DMVDriver

1099-k who is the payment settlement tntity PSE (name and phone number)? Is it Uber?
Also, the 1099--MISC isn't in form format (box number 1, etc). Where does the referral/incentive get claimed (which box...other income, royalties, etc)?


----------



## Diva_DMVDriver

So gas shouldn't be deducted if you're claiming standard mileage?



UberTaxPro said:


> In addition to using the standard mileage rate, you can deduct any business-related parking fees and tolls. Tickets are never deductible. Legal fees would be deductible if they're for ordinary and necessary business purposes, not for tickets. I think property tax on your car is also deductible in addition to standard mileage deduction.


----------



## Wheelman

TaxPro...

Really appreciate your help on this forum.

I just did my 1099-K on TurboTax for the first time and I'm looking for confirmation.

I entered the income in "Business not in 1099-MISC" (there is a check box for 1099-K). The amount from Raizor was a gross of all fees including their % and safety fee. So I entered this amount then deducted those items under "returns and allowances". There wasn't really anywhere else to enter that. I took the standard mileage deduction then added car washes and a phone holder I bought specially for Uber use. That's it. I ended up with $117 net income, in other words, virtually no tax liability even though I had substantial income from other sources. Can you confirm I entered correctly in TT?

One more thing...I upgraded my insurance coverage from personal to business specifically for Uber use. Can I deduct the difference in cost as an expense or is that covered by the standard mileage deduction?


----------



## Wheelman

Diva_DMVDriver said:


> So gas shouldn't be deducted if you're claiming standard mileage?


I can handle this one: Correct.


----------



## Beefer6

Can I just enter my info from the 1099-k into the 1099-misc section or do I have to do the sched c?


----------



## UberTaxPro

Diva_DMVDriver said:


> So gas shouldn't be deducted if you're claiming standard mileage?


correct


----------



## UberTaxPro

Wheelman said:


> TaxPro...
> 
> Really appreciate your help on this forum.
> 
> I just did my 1099-K on TurboTax for the first time and I'm looking for confirmation.
> 
> I entered the income in "Business not in 1099-MISC" (there is a check box for 1099-K). The amount from Raizor was a gross of all fees including their % and safety fee. So I entered this amount then deducted those items under "returns and allowances". There wasn't really anywhere else to enter that. I took the standard mileage deduction then added car washes and a phone holder I bought specially for Uber use. That's it. I ended up with $117 net income, in other words, virtually no tax liability even though I had substantial income from other sources. Can you confirm I entered correctly in TT?
> 
> One more thing...I upgraded my insurance coverage from personal to business specifically for Uber use. Can I deduct the difference in cost as an expense or is that covered by the standard mileage deduction?


You want your ride-share income to be on Schedule C. The details of TT are not fresh in my mind but I believe there is a way to look at the forms directly. Make sure you got a schedule c going on in the form view. $117 net sounds maybe normal for net ride-share income but not for all your "substantial income from other sources." Schedule C has expenses not "returns and allowances" 
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf


----------



## UberTaxPro

Wheelman said:


> One more thing...I upgraded my insurance coverage from personal to business specifically for Uber use. Can I deduct the difference in cost as an expense or is that covered by the standard mileage deduction?


No you can't deduct the additional insurance if your using the standard mileage deduction.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Beefer6 said:


> Can I just enter my info from the 1099-k into the 1099-misc section or do I have to do the sched c?


I'm not sure if matters how it gets on there but it definitely needs to be on your Schedule C end result.


----------



## krazo

Lyft does not issue a 1099k if your earnings are less than $20,000.00. Does the same hold true for Uber?


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## UberTaxPro

krazo said:


> Lyft does not issue a 1099k if your earnings are less than $20,000.00. Does the same hold true for Uber?


no


----------



## Hank Scoby

I'm using TurboTax and filling in the information for business income using the 1099K info and my records. I already owned the car I used to Uber - I started driving in June and then stopped in December. TurboTax asks if I converted to 100% personal when I stopped driving - which I did. TT asks about the price/cost/FMV of the car and states I have some huge "gain" due to converting to personal. Is there another way to deal with this? Of the total miles I drive in 2015 only about 10% were for Uber. I never claimed any depreciation. Something just isn't right.... Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Was there a prior question about buying or converting the car for 100% business use? Is this on the vehicle work sheet? I remember they ask when you put it in service and some other related questions. I always answer yes to personal use as well as business use and take the standard mileage deduction, and have never had the issue you described.


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> So let me get this straight... you are saying that even though Uber pays for commercial insurance, advertising and credit card processing, the driver can still deduct those expenses?


Also, some of these expenses your talking about could be considered to be what the IRS calls "working condition benefits" and are tax free to the employee. Interestingly and to my surprise the definition for employee under working condition benefits includes Independent Contractors !


----------



## Wheelman

OK. It all makes sense now. A helpful form provided by Uber right next to our 1099 forms is their "Tax Summary". This form clearly breaks out all fees and what's left should equal your bank deposits. I actually ended up with a negative net income.


----------



## ElectricEliminator

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


If I live in New Jersey, but I am assigned to Uber Philly even though the vast majority of my trips are in New Jersey, do I need to file a Pennsylvania non resident return too?


----------



## JonCarney

Can we use the standard deduction instead of writing off miles? So for me the standard deduction is about 5600...but does the uber fee, airport fee count as an itemized deduction? So if we use the standard deduction, will it gross fares - 5600? Or will it be Gross fares - uber fee 20% - safe ride fees - standard deduction?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

JonCarney said:


> Can we use the standard deduction instead of writing off miles? So for me the standard deduction is about 5600...but does the uber fee, airport fee count as an itemized deduction? So if we use the standard deduction, will it gross fares - 5600? Or will it be Gross fares - uber fee 20% - safe ride fees - standard deduction?


Where are you getting the "standard deduction" you are using? The standard mileage deduction is .575, and that comes off your gross earnings on Schedule C, so it is in fact writing off miles.


----------



## JonCarney

Older Chauffeur said:


> Where are you getting the "standard deduction" you are using? The standard mileage deduction is .575, and that comes off your gross earnings on Schedule C, so it is in fact writing off miles.


From the irs website, it says you can use either itemized deductions or the standard deduction


----------



## Older Chauffeur

JonCarney said:


> From the irs website, it says you can use either itemized deductions or the standard deduction


Different "standard" they are talking about. Schedule C instructions will explain the business mileage standard deduction. Are you using TurboTax or something similar? I used TT Deluxe which included Scedule C on the CD version. Whatever program you are using, it has to include Schedule C, the Business Profit and Loss form.
The itemized vs standard deduction mentioned on the IRS website applies to your 1040 once you have your AGI (adjustable gross income) figured. The AGI comes from adding up all income from W2 and 1099 employment, interest income, etc. If you have enough deductions on Schedule A, like medical expenses, property taxes, mortgage interest, etc. you use those. Otherwise you use the standard deduction for your filing status. Using your figure of $5600, if you had qualified deductions totaling say $7000, your tax liability or the actual amount you owe, would be less.
I'm guessing you are single and maybe trying to file one of the short returns? Maybe it doesn't have Schedule C?


----------



## JonCarney

Older Chauffeur said:


> Different "standard" they are talking about. Schedule C instructions will explain the business mileage standard deduction. Are you using TurboTax or something similar? I used TT Deluxe which included Scedule C on the CD version. Whatever program you are using, it has to include Schedule C, the Business Profit and Loss form.
> The itemized vs standard deduction mentioned on the IRS website applies to your 1040 once you have your AGI (adjustable gross income) figured. The AGI comes from adding up all income from W2 and 1099 employment, interest income, etc. If you have enough deductions on Schedule A, like medical expenses, property taxes, mortgage interest, etc. you use those. Otherwise you use the standard deduction for your filing status. Using your figure of $5600, if you had qualified deductions totaling say $7000, your tax liability or the actual amount you owe, would be less.
> I'm guessing you are single and maybe trying to file one of the short returns? Maybe it doesn't have Schedule C?


Ah I was wrong, i mean 6300


----------



## Older Chauffeur

JonCarney said:


> Ah I was wrong, i mean 6300


Just looked that up and was coming back to ask you about it.


----------



## JonCarney

JonCarney said:


> Ah I was wrong, i mean 6300


I have schedule c, but didn't track mileage good enough so the Uber on trip mileage is about 4k in write offs, so it'd be better to use the standard deduction of 6300 for single, not head of household, if i can. Thanks.


----------



## JonCarney

But, if i use the standard deduction of 6300, is it subtracted from my actual income or my income with the safe ride fees, and ubers 20 percent?


----------



## Wheelman

JonCarney said:


> I have schedule c, but didn't track mileage good enough so the Uber on trip mileage is about 4k in write offs, so it'd be better to use the standard deduction of 6300 for single, not head of household, if i can. Thanks.





JonCarney said:


> But, if i use the standard deduction of 6300, is it subtracted from my actual income or my income with the safe ride fees, and ubers 20 percent?


You are mixing personal and business. All your Uber fees and IRS mileage are directly deductible as business expenses on Sch.C.


----------



## Wheelman

TaxPro: TT spit out a "de minimus safe harbor" form for me to include with my return. The program did not mention this or ask if I wanted to do it, it just did. Was this related to my Uber deductions? If so, how does it specifically benefit me?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

JonCarney said:


> I have schedule c, but didn't track mileage good enough so the Uber on trip mileage is about 4k in write offs, so it'd be better to use the standard deduction of 6300 for single, not head of household, if i can. Thanks.


Go through all the income questions TT asks. They should be asking about self employment and 1099 forms you have received. They will walk you through Schedule C to determine your taxable income, if any, and then tell you where to list on your 1040 form. You may owe FICA taxes of 15.3% on your self employment even if you don't owe any income tax.

Edit: sorry, you never did say if you are using TurboTax or any other software . I haven't tried the IRS website, but it doesn't sound like it is asking the right questions. If you have a Costco in your area, they have TT Deluxe On CD with Schedule C for $49,95. In Dec it was $10 off, but now I don't know. Online using TT you have to upgrade to Home and Business for around $80.


----------



## DRiver II

people can check out the 'freefile' website and see if they qualify with any of the online vendors. thats if you want to do your taxes online yourself and for free.


----------



## DRiver II

soupergloo said:


> I'm just going to post my info. on here in hopes that someone out there can help me.
> 
> I received a W-2 from my employer that I worked at for half of the year ($18,085.90 in wages / $2,934.86 tax withheld / $1,121.33 social security tax withheld / $262.25 medicare tax withheld / $596.30 state income tax).
> 
> Also received a 1098-T from SF State ($5,327 tuition & related expenses)
> 
> Lyft Summary: $16,567.46 (gross) or $13,599.07 (net)
> 
> Uber 1099-K: $18,836.70 (gross)
> 
> I didn't keep a mileage log, so my only option is to count the miles driven given by Lyft (8,435.85 miles) & Uber (6,723 miles). I've entered everything I've stated to the best of my ability with all of the information provided on these forums, and TurboTax is coming back with a federal refund of $46 and CA Refund of $33 OWED.
> 
> When I enter my earnings, do I enter them as gross or net? If I enter my 1099-K from Uber, do I also have to input my 1099-MISC from Uber as well? The only thing I've tried deducting is mileage, safe rider fee and cell phone use.


surprised you made so much more income with Uber vs Lyft mile for mile, in Lyft's 'hometown' no less so to speak.

the general consensus seemed to be that you make more with Lyft per ride or mile but usually get fewer rides or miles than you could with Uber due to Uber's greater market share.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

DRiver II said:


> people can check out the 'freefile' website and see if they qualify with any of the online vendors. thats if you want to do your taxes online yourself and for free.


Have you found one that will do it at no charge with a Schedule C? The ones I have seen, Turbo Tax and Tax Act, do only simple returns like the 1040EZ for free.


----------



## DRiver II

Older Chauffeur said:


> Have you found one that will do it at no charge with a Schedule C? The ones I have seen, Turbo Tax and Tax Act, do only simple returns like the 1040EZ for free.


check out H&R Block. as long as you fit the income criteria, they will handle schedule C...


----------



## soupergloo

DRiver II said:


> surprised you made so much more income with Uber vs Lyft mile for mile, in Lyft's 'hometown' no less so to speak.
> 
> the general consensus seemed to be that you make more with Lyft per ride or mile but usually get fewer rides or miles than you could with Uber due to Uber's greater market share.


You should also know I started with Lyft in March 2015 and didn't join Uber until August 2015. I did tend to favor driving with Uber last year over Lyft, however, because they sent me rides quicker than Lyft and had some good guarantees in December. The feelings have definitely changed going into 2016.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

DRiver II said:


> check out H&R Block. as long as you fit the income criteria, they will handle schedule C...


Not free if you have to use Schedule C: (copied from a review of online tax preparers)
"One of the best features about the H&R Block Free service is that despite being a free service it also includes step by step guidance to make tax filing less complicated. This free tax filing option is not suited to those with a Schedule C, Schedule D, Schedule E, Schedule F and a Schedule K-1."
I searched H&R Block's own free filing website and couldn't find a free version for anything but the 1040EZ, and then they charge for the state.


----------



## DRiver II

Older Chauffeur said:


> Not free if you have to use Schedule C: (copied from a review of online tax preparers)
> "One of the best features about the H&R Block Free service is that despite being a free service it also includes step by step guidance to make tax filing less complicated. This free tax filing option is not suited to those with a Schedule C, Schedule D, Schedule E, Schedule F and a Schedule K-1."
> I searched H&R Block's own free filing website and couldn't find a free version for anything but the 1040EZ, and then they charge for the state.


nope. H&R on freefile handled schedule C, multiple 1099s, and VA state for free. i helped someone file last week...


----------



## Wheelman

FYI, using TT Deluxe and with a net business loss, paying Self-employment tax never came up.


----------



## Ryan1983

Ok here are my outstanding tax questions. 

Uber is including the srf into gross earnings did lyft do the same ?

I also deliver for amazon flex for which I received a 1099 misc. I received a 1099k for uber and did not get a 1099 for lyft.

I described my business as taxi and courier. I used business code 485300 which is for taxi. 

The main question about my filing is the business code. I assume this is the correct one for uber/lyft. 

Can I include my income and expenses from Amazon flex under the same business code as uber/lyft ? Do I need to fill out a separate schedule c for amazon?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Wheelman said:


> FYI, using TT Deluxe and with a net business loss, paying Self-employment tax never came up.


Right, because the threshold for paying self employment tax is $400.00


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Ryan1983 said:


> Ok here are my outstanding tax questions.
> 
> Uber is including the srf into gross earnings did lyft do the same ?
> 
> I also deliver for amazon flex for which I received a 1099 misc. I received a 1099k for uber and did not get a 1099 for lyft.
> 
> I described my business as taxi and courier. I used business code 485300 which is for taxi.
> 
> The main question about my filing is the business code. I assume this is the correct one for uber/lyft.
> 
> Can I include my income and expenses from Amazon flex under the same business code as uber/lyft ? Do I need to fill out a separate schedule c for amazon?


See what the experts say, but I can tell you that since 2002 I have used code 99999 for "other" to describe my contract chauffeur business, because nothing else fit, and it has never been questioned. I don't think it is all that important as long as it is related to driving, and the 1099 and other income for it is being reported on just one Schedule C.


----------



## UberPissed

soupergloo said:


> I do now


You would be surprised to find out that only 4 states regulate return preparers.


----------



## UberPissed

Wheelman said:


> TaxPro...
> 
> I entered the income in "Business not in 1099-MISC" (there is a check box for 1099-K). The amount from Raizor was a gross of all fees including their % and safety fee. So I entered this amount then deducted those items under "returns and allowances". There wasn't really anywhere else to enter that. I took the standard mileage deduction then added car washes and a phone holder I bought specially for Uber use.


I belive the returns and allowances is in the Cost of Goods sold section of the Schedule C, you would want to put this in the section for expenses under "Commission and Fees".


----------



## UberPissed

Older Chauffeur said:


> Have you found one that will do it at no charge with a Schedule C? The ones I have seen, Turbo Tax and Tax Act, do only simple returns like the 1040EZ for free.


VITA sites can file schedule C, but only if the expenses are under 10k. I think the best way to do it is to educate yourself and do it yourself. Nobody will know your situation better than yourself, and the software takes a lot of work out for you.


----------



## UberPissed

UberTaxPro said:


> It's only tax advice if payment is received. They can frown all they want. The constitution affords us the privilege to freely discuss all laws in this country.


I think it covers everyone governed by Circular 230. Lots of ethical cases stemming from "Barstool advice". Also, people working pro bono could be giving tax advice.

As to the original comment about the IRS "frowning upon" - I think that is baloney (in the nicest way pososibe). I doubt that the OP speaks for the IRS, which if anything, wants substantial compliance with the laws. People going on a forum like this can go from a blank slate and refiner their issues. At the end of the day, the taxpayer bears the ultimate responsible for waht is (or isn't) on the return.


----------



## Ubercentralnj

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Question: I drove for Uber and Lyft in 2015. I only grossed $270.00 from Lyft (Uber was close to $8,0000). Since the Lyft income is below the threshold do I need to include that income when I file?


----------



## Ubercentralnj

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Question: The consensus seems to be that we can deduct miles from home to a pax, and the return miles back home. I'm uncomfortable with this because when I read the tax code every reference to travel to/from home states they are commuting miles unless you claim a Home office. Can you tell me where in the code it says we can deduct the miles to/from home - and by that I mean driving directly to/from a pax.


----------



## rocksteady

Should I enter the exact gross income number found in 1a of the 1099-k form and then enter the uber-commision, safe-rides fee and split fare fee as expenses. If so, where should I enter those expense numbers in turbotax home and business? Or can I just enter my actual take home income in the general business income section?

Why does Uber file a 1099-k forms which is misleading as to what they actually pay me? I hate this fuggin company. Why isn't the IRS up their ass for pulling this shit?


----------



## UberTaxPro

rocksteady said:


> Should I enter the exact gross income number found in 1a of the 1099-k form and then enter the uber-commision, safe-rides fee and split fare fee as expenses. If so, where should I enter those expense numbers in turbotax home and business? Or can I just enter my actual take home income in the general business income section?
> 
> Why does Uber file a 1099-k forms which is misleading as to what they actually pay me? I hate this fuggin company. Why isn't the IRS up their ass for pulling this shit?


Should I enter the exact gross income number found in 1a of the 1099-k form and then enter the uber-commision, safe-rides fee and split fare fee as expenses. If so, where should I enter those expense numbers in turbotax home and business? Yes, not sure where on TT you enter but they do need to end up on schedule C


----------



## UberTaxPro

Ubercentralnj said:


> Question: The consensus seems to be that we can deduct miles from home to a pax, and the return miles back home. I'm uncomfortable with this because when I read the tax code every reference to travel to/from home states they are commuting miles unless you claim a Home office. Can you tell me where in the code it says we can deduct the miles to/from home - and by that I mean driving directly to/from a pax.


I don't think your gonna find anything that specific in the IRC. Your welcome to search for yourself here https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26
If you want to research you'll probably find more in the Treasury Regulations, revenue rulings and revenue procedures. Here's a 201o revenue procedure you can read through if you want http://www.legalbitstream.com/scripts/isyswebext.dll?op=get&uri=/isysquery/irl5c7b/4/doc
You have to be able to prove your miles are "business" miles. When I leave the house and my app is on I'm taking a business mile deduction because I'm actively looking for pings. Just my opinion, never found anything in the code that specifically states when or where an Uber driver can deduct "dead miles". If you find something please let me know!


----------



## rocksteady

UberTaxPro said:


> Should I enter the exact gross income number found in 1a of the 1099-k form and then enter the uber-commision, safe-rides fee and split fare fee as expenses. If so, where should I enter those expense numbers in turbotax home and business? Yes, not sure where on TT you enter but they do need to end up on schedule C


For the business expenses, there is as place to enter commissions, but the examples don't relate to anything like uber. I just don't see a category that "safe-rides" fee and "fare-split" would fall under. Uber having us deal with their income like it was ever ours pisses me off. This is such obnoxious bullshit. If I don't actually ever receive that "income," and have no say over these expenses, then they were never mine to begin with.


----------



## Guest

We have to do a Schedule SE, right? Long or Short? Tips were <$80, do I have to report? Thanks so much for your help


----------



## Ubercentralnj

UberTaxPro said:


> I don't think your gonna find anything that specific in the IRC. Your welcome to search for yourself here https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26
> If you want to research you'll probably find more in the Treasury Regulations, revenue rulings and revenue procedures. Here's a 201o revenue procedure you can read through if you want http://www.legalbitstream.com/scripts/isyswebext.dll?op=get&uri=/isysquery/irl5c7b/4/doc
> You have to be able to prove your miles are "business" miles. When I leave the house and my app is on I'm taking a business mile deduction because I'm actively looking for pings. Just my opinion, never found anything in the code that specifically states when or where an Uber driver can deduct "dead miles". If you find something please let me know!


What I've read in the regs is that the miles from home to your first business contact is commuting. So is returning home. This is states in the Business travel section, sorry im too lazy ro look up the proper reference but it was pretty easy to find. Unfortunately I've spent many nights just taking pings from my couch so this may limit my deductible miles a lot. I wish I could just pretend I'll never get audited and claim every mile I drove with the app on but I don't know if that'll fly. And I know it all depends on how we interpret "business contact", but with no firm guidance we're left to make our own decision based on the level of risk we are comfortable with. Uber sucks and so does the IRS


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Ubercentralnj said:


> Question: I drove for Uber and Lyft in 2015. I only grossed $270.00 from Lyft (Uber was close to $8,0000). Since the Lyft income is below the threshold do I need to include that income when I file?


I didn't see an answer from UberPissed yet, but I am pretty sure he would say that you need to combine all the self employment income on Schedule C, even if it isn't on a 1099. If you have kept a written, contemporaneous mileage log, you can deduct all the rideshare related miles for both companies.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

chrisprabhu said:


> We have to do a Schedule SE, right? Long or Short? Tips were <$80, do I have to report? Thanks so much for your help


I think I saw somewhere in the TurboTax instructions re taxable tips a reference to receiving more than $20 in any single month. Might be a loophole. You use Schedule SE to figure what you owe in FICA taxes on your net profit from Schedule C. If you made less than $400 net after all expenses have been deducted, then you won't owe FICA taxes.
I would like to see if the tax pros concur.


----------



## Guest

Older Chauffeur said:


> I think I saw somewhere in the TurboTax instructions re taxable tips a reference to receiving more than $20 in any single month. Might be a loophole. You use Schedule SE to figure what you owe in FICA taxes on your net profit from Schedule C. If you made less than $400 net after all expenses have been deducted, then you won't owe FICA taxes.
> I would like to see if the tax pros concur.


I made well over $400 but I can use a Schedule SE SHORT if I didn't receive any tips, otherwise I have to use the long. To be honest I have no idea how much I actually received in tips but it was hardly anything.


----------



## bryano

I live in Vancouver Washington. I give rides in both Portland Oregon and Vancouver. Some go from one state to the other and some stay in one state. Washington has no income tax but Oregon does. Do I need to split the income from the two and keep a record and report the income from the Oregon rides? My 1099 from uber has my state box marked as Washington so I'm not sure.
Thanks for your help


----------



## UberTaxPro

bryano said:


> I live in Vancouver Washington. I give rides in both Portland Oregon and Vancouver. Some go from one state to the other and some stay in one state. Washington has no income tax but Oregon does. Do I need to split the income from the two and keep a record and report the income from the Oregon rides? My 1099 from uber has my state box marked as Washington so I'm not sure.
> Thanks for your help


To be sure you would need to check with OR to see if they require you to file a non-resident tax return. I've read some things about issues like this involving mostly pro athletes and performers as they earn money in many different states but never heard it discussed concerning Uber drivers! My guess is that you would be OK not filing a non resident return in OR but its just a guess!


----------



## negeorgia

I live far from a Uber town. Do my deductible miles start from my home or when I enter an area where I can accept a request or the point where I am when I accept my first request of the day? If I drive to an area and turn on the app but refuse a request or get no requests, are any of those miles deductible? For example, I take my wife shopping in an area where I could take requests. The app is on, but I recieve no requests. Are they business miles both ways or just the trip home?


----------



## StarzykCPA

bryano said:


> I live in Vancouver Washington. I give rides in both Portland Oregon and Vancouver. Some go from one state to the other and some stay in one state. Washington has no income tax but Oregon does. Do I need to split the income from the two and keep a record and report the income from the Oregon rides? My 1099 from uber has my state box marked as Washington so I'm not sure.
> Thanks for your help





UberTaxPro said:


> To be sure you would need to check with OR to see if they require you to file a non-resident tax return. I've read some things about issues like this involving mostly pro athletes and performers as they earn money in many different states but never heard it discussed concerning Uber drivers! My guess is that you would be OK not filing a non resident return in OR but its just a guess!


Yep you should split the income as best you can, and if you meet the filing threshold you will probably have to file a non-resident OR return.


----------



## UberPissed

Ubercentralnj said:


> Question: The consensus seems to be that we can deduct miles from home to a pax, and the return miles back home. I'm uncomfortable with this because when I read the tax code every reference to travel to/from home states they are commuting miles unless you claim a Home office. Can you tell me where in the code it says we can deduct the miles to/from home - and by that I mean driving directly to/from a pax.


Best I can give you is this. I think if you drive 10 miles, then turn app on, then no. However, you are turning the app on the moment you leave your home, then I believe you are good to go.

I live in Chicago, but maybe some people live 10 miles outside of the city, and prefer working in the city, so they drive in, then turn the app on. I believe that would be considered commuting. For that reason, you should probably avoid that strategy and just go online the second you get in your car.


----------



## UberTaxPro

ClevelandUberRider said:


> For most taxpayers who have FT salaried W-2 income here, that percentage is probably too high to meet.
> 
> Did you remember to send in your quarterly estimated taxes every quarter during tax year 2015?


You only have to pay quarterly taxes if you have a profit for the quarter.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

ClevelandUberRider said:


> I am learning here, no huge egos.
> What is the number of tax returns filed for others above which one has to enroll / register to get a PTIN?
> After getting a PTIN, can the person file income tax returns for the public for a fee?
> After getting a PTIN, can the person provide professional tax advice to his/her clients on top of filling our tax returns, for a fee?


Do you need assisatnce learning how to start a NEW THREAD TOPIC?
Please STOP interrupting threads with your OFF-TOPIC BS.


----------



## UberPissed

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Do you need assisatnce learning how to start a NEW THREAD TOPIC?
> Please STOP interrupting threads with your OFF-TOPIC BS.


I think this is still on topic, no? At the risk of furthering off topic and otherwise hijacking conversations, i believe you need a PTIN if you take a single fee for preparation services. I don't know if you can provide tax advice with just a PTIN. I think you have to be a practitioner, which is governed by a set of ethical rules contained in Circular 230.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

UberPissed said:


> I think this is still on topic, no? At the risk of furthering off topic and otherwise hijacking conversations, i believe you need a PTIN if you take a single fee for preparation services. I don't know if you can provide tax advice with just a PTIN. I think you have to be a practitioner, which is governed by a set of ethical rules contained in Circular 230.


yeah - it's off topic 
(having nothing to do with Uber/Lyft and filing taxes.)


----------



## UberPissed

THICK LIMES! (to quote a Sunny episode)


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberPissed said:


> I think this is still on topic, no? At the risk of furthering off topic and otherwise hijacking conversations, i believe you need a PTIN if you take a single fee for preparation services. I don't know if you can provide tax advice with just a PTIN. I think you have to be a practitioner, which is governed by a set of ethical rules contained in Circular 230.


You have to have a PTIN to sign in the paid preparers box. From my reading of circular 230 it seems like it only pertains to tax practitioners giving written advice. Doesn't say a thing about tax advice from anyone else.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Apparently, there are federal regulations that state that only enrolled agents, CPAs and attorneys may give tax advice. State laws differ however.


----------



## Ubercentralnj

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


I'm concerned that because Uber reports the SRF and their cut of the fares as having been paid to us that we are all going to get flagged for "Under-paying" our FICA taxes. Those taxes (SS and Medicare) are based on gross pay, right? The IRS will compare what we report (true gross) to Uber's B.S. gross and we're gonna look like we're scamming. And once you get pulled in for an audit they won't stop with just that single issue. I think we're all screwed. Please tell me I'm wrong and why I'm wrong. ....really.....please....


----------



## naplestom75

So what's the easiest course of action, now that the dumm*es gave us 1099Ks, instead us just giving us our payout number?


----------



## Ben Doerr

At what point do we need to file quarterly? . How is this done?


----------



## Punkygurly74

Hi,

I'm sorry if this has been asked and I did not see this.

I'm working with Turbo Tax filing my schedule C. Seems simple enough - right? Errrr... Again, I apologize if this is remedial to many of you.

Total Uber income earned: 2805.58
*Split fare Fee: 5.25
Safe Rides Fee 342.10
Misc (fare) 50.00
Referral 150.00
Uber Service Fee - 561.16*
Total: 3202.93

So, my understanding is all the bold is deductible? So, when filing I claim 3202.93 and then the rest are deductions? I really just want to make sure I have done this correctly.

Thank you so much!


----------



## UberTaxPro

Ben Doerr said:


> At what point do we need to file quarterly? . How is this done?


1. You must figure your net profit or net loss from your business. You do this by subtracting your business expenses from your business income. If your expenses are less than your income, the difference is net profit. If you have a net profit there's a good chance you need to pay. 
2. Form 1040ES is used to pay. Or you can use the EFTPS system to pay electronically. Payment due dates are:
1st payment April 18, 2016, 2nd payment June 15, 2016, 3rd payment Sept. 15, 2016, 4th payment Jan. 17, 2017


----------



## Realityshark

Why would anyone take tax advise from a random stranger on the internet?


----------



## UberTaxPro

Punkygurly74 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorry if this has been asked and I did not see this.
> 
> I'm working with Turbo Tax filing my schedule C. Seems simple enough - right? Errrr... Again, I apologize if this is remedial to many of you.
> 
> Total Uber income earned: 2805.58
> *Split fare Fee: 5.25
> Safe Rides Fee 342.10
> Misc (fare) 50.00
> Referral 150.00
> Uber Service Fee - 561.16*
> Total: 3202.93
> 
> So, my understanding is all the bold is deductible? So, when filing I claim 3202.93 and then the rest are deductions? I really just want to make sure I have done this correctly.
> 
> Thank you so much!


*Split fare Fee: 5.25
Safe Rides Fee 342.10
Uber Service Fee - 561.16*

The three above are deductible (all three state "fee")
The other 2 I believe are income items


----------



## UberTaxPro

Realityshark said:


> Why would anyone take tax advise from a random stranger on the internet?


because its free?


----------



## StarzykCPA

Ubercentralnj said:


> I'm concerned that because Uber reports the SRF and their cut of the fares as having been paid to us that we are all going to get flagged for "Under-paying" our FICA taxes. Those taxes (SS and Medicare) are based on gross pay, right? The IRS will compare what we report (true gross) to Uber's B.S. gross and we're gonna look like we're scamming. And once you get pulled in for an audit they won't stop with just that single issue. I think we're all screwed. Please tell me I'm wrong and why I'm wrong. ....really.....please....


"those taxes" are not based on gross pay. You are referring to self-employment tax, which is based on net income.


----------



## karl-o54

StarzykCPA said:


> "those taxes" are not based on gross pay. You are referring to self-employment tax, which is based on net income.


Hi StarzykCPA 
I will be 62 in April and I need to start collecting my Social Security then. (Things are tight, the reason I need to Uber)
On the SS Retirement form they ask If I am going to be self employed in 2016 and how much I estimate I will make in 2016.
Question. As an Uber driver, am I considered self-employed?


----------



## StarzykCPA

karl-o54 said:


> Hi StarzykCPA
> I will be 62 in April and I need to start collecting my Social Security then. (Things are tight, the reason I need to Uber)
> On the SS Retirement form they ask If I am going to be self employed in 2016 and how much I estimate I will make in 2016.
> Question. As an Uber driver, am I considered self-employed?


Yes, you are considered self-employed.


----------



## karl-o54

StarzykCPA said:


> Yes, you are considered self-employed.


Thanks. Now I just need to calculate how much Uberring I can do to not exceed the earning limit for the year to avoid penalties.


----------



## Nick K

I kept a mileage log and determined that I had 296 business miles (I started doing Uber toward the end of the year). I never counted "commuting" miles from home to my first pickup nor did I count miles from my final drop off back home. In addition, I do not know how many personal miles I had last year (I don't know what my odometer reading on 1/1/15 was). The tax software I'm using is asking for commuting miles and also personal miles - is it OK to just leave it blank? Again, I have my log to backup the 296 business miles.


----------



## swimmerbhs

Tax Question.... I live in Florida and I am a Sole Proprietor of a photography business and know that if you have an office you can deduct cleaning expenses (i.e. equipment, chemicals, or services) of the office. If you also do Uber, can you deduct the same things? (i.e. carpet cleaner, vacuum, or services)


----------



## UberTaxPro

swimmerbhs said:


> Tax Question.... I live in Florida and I am a Sole Proprietor of a photography business and know that if you have an office you can deduct cleaning expenses (i.e. equipment, chemicals, or services) of the office. If you also do Uber, can you deduct the same things? (i.e. carpet cleaner, vacuum, or services)


If you use the standard mileage deduction you can't deduct car washes or car wash supplies


----------



## IckyDoody

Grunching. The 1099 i received had one gross (in more than one way) number. I know (mostly from starzyk) what i need to do to file. However, someone in another thread said that we need to send a 1099 back to uber showing the srf and uber fee. Is this so? It would actually make sense considering our actual relationship with uber (we are customers who pay uber to generate leads, ect).


----------



## Alexander

Hi UberTaxPro- thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. 

I'm in the middle of doing my taxes for 2014 and 2015 (I missed doing them in 2014). My main income comes from ride-sharing and delivery services (e.g., Postmates), and from what I understand, I use the 1099-K and 1099-Misc forms to calculate my taxable income on Schedule C, then use Schedule SE for determining my actual tax owed based off that taxable income, and then finally transfer that over to Form 1040 where it is added to any other income I have (e.g., from a W-2)? Is that correct? If I did not get a 1099-K or 1099-Misc from some of my income sources (e.g., Postmates, from where I only made $75 last year), do I ignore that or do I add it to the total earned income anyways, despite not receiving a 1099-K or 1099-Misc? 

Also, if the standard deduction is used, does that take into account depreciation, or is depreciation deducted through a separate calculation? I purchased the car I use for ride-share specifically for ride-share, and use it about 80%-90% for ride-sharing (I put money down and have a car payment). Expenses like mints and water for passengers can still be deducted even if we use the standard deduction, right? 

Thanks again!


----------



## UberTaxPro

Alexander said:


> Hi UberTaxPro- thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
> 
> I'm in the middle of doing my taxes for 2014 and 2015 (I missed doing them in 2014). My main income comes from ride-sharing and delivery services (e.g., Postmates), and from what I understand, I use the 1099-K and 1099-Misc forms to calculate my taxable income on Schedule C, then use Schedule SE for determining my actual tax owed based off that taxable income, and then finally transfer that over to Form 1040 where it is added to any other income I have (e.g., from a W-2)? Is that correct? If I did not get a 1099-K or 1099-Misc from some of my income sources (e.g., Postmates, from where I only made $75 last year), do I ignore that or do I add it to the total earned income anyways, despite not receiving a 1099-K or 1099-Misc?
> 
> Also, if the standard deduction is used, does that take into account depreciation, or is depreciation deducted through a separate calculation? I purchased the car I use for ride-share specifically for ride-share, and use it about 80%-90% for ride-sharing (I put money down and have a car payment). Expenses like mints and water for passengers can still be deducted even if we use the standard deduction, right?
> 
> Thanks again!


I use the 1099-K and 1099-Misc forms to calculate my taxable income on Schedule C, then use Schedule SE for determining my actual tax owed based off that taxable income, and then finally transfer that over to Form 1040 where it is added to any other income I have (e.g., from a W-2)? Is that correct? *Yes, you figure your net self employment income on Schedule C, then figure your self employment taxes on Schedule SE, then 1040*.
If I did not get a 1099-K or 1099-Misc from some of my income sources (e.g., Postmates, from where I only made $75 last year), do I ignore that or do I add it to the total earned income anyways, despite not receiving a 1099-K or 1099-Misc? *You should include all income. *
Also, if the standard deduction is used, does that take into account depreciation, or is depreciation deducted through a separate calculation? *Depreciation is included in the standard mileage deduction.*
Expenses like mints and water for passengers can still be deducted even if we use the standard deduction, right? *Yes, also parking, tolls, business % of property taxes and business % of car loan interest. *


----------



## UberTaxPro

IckyDoody said:


> Grunching. The 1099 i received had one gross (in more than one way) number. I know (mostly from starzyk) what i need to do to file. However, someone in another thread said that we need to send a 1099 back to uber showing the srf and uber fee. Is this so? It would actually make sense considering our actual relationship with uber (we are customers who pay uber to generate leads, ect).


Generally, you do not have to report 1099-MISC forms to C Corporations and S Corporations.


----------



## Alexander

Thanks for the info, sir! A couple more questions popped up in reading this thread.

You mentioned previously that the standard deduction is $6300 for a single filer for 2015 and the personal exemption is $4000 for a single filer for 2015. This is actually the first time I am doing my taxes on my own, so I'm not sure what to make of these numbers. I am single with no dependents, and no one is claiming me as a dependent. Does this mean that, in addition to all the business related expenses (e.g. standard mileage deduction, business % of car loan interest, etc.), I also deduct $6300 + $4000 from my gross income? Or is it only the $4000?

Also, a non-ride-sharing related tax question: over the last 3 years, I've been in school through loans, and I've received a 1098-T for the amount paid in tuition each year. I understand that the 1098-T is to be used for Form 8863 to claim "Education Credits (American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning Credits)". I haven't done this and am wondering if it is something that I should have done, given that I had almost no income for those years (I received summer "grants" from the school for about $6500 for students who secured summer internships in non-paid public interest organizations, so I assumed that these are not taxed, even though I used part of the money for room and board so I could have a place to stay for the internship). In 2014, the total amount of money I received (before any deductions) was $6500 (the grant) + $3811 (Uber) = $10,311. So given that this number will drop below the standard deduction + personal exemption for 2014 ($6200 + $3,950 = $10,150) after deductions, does this mean I don't need to file taxes for 2014?

And lastly, is there a separate process for the state taxes, or is that included when I do the Schedule C --> Schedule SE --> 1040?


----------



## 3875

so how are you supposed to report it if you made less than $600? do I need to purchase the Business version of TurboTax and fill out the self employment tax? Can I file it under "other earned income not reported on w-2 or 1099" in the Miscellaneous Income section?


----------



## UberTaxPro

3875 said:


> so how are you supposed to report it if you made less than $600? do I need to purchase the Business version of TurboTax and fill out the self employment tax? Can I file it under "other earned income not reported on w-2 or 1099" in the Miscellaneous Income section?


You report the same as if you did get a 1099. It's gotta go on Schedule C to get your net business income/loss. It's business income so it has to be reported as such.


----------



## IckyDoody

UberTaxPro said:


> Generally, you do not have to report 1099-MISC forms to C Corporations and S Corporations.


Thanks


----------



## Husky

I received my 1099k for 2015, I see on line 5k which stated on 1a of the amount which I was paid thru out last year., I found out uber fed id number is 80-0896455, my questione is ...is this legit that I been paid every month? and the 1099 is payment card and third party network transaction!? I didn't get pay monthly and I have the gross I made last year. can someone tell me is this legit? I didn't start as driver till approx. oct 2015. so where that monthly payment which stated on 1099? can someone help me with this issue. thanks in advance


----------



## Wheelman

UberTaxPro said:


> If you use the standard mileage deduction you can't deduct car washes or car wash supplies


You sure about this? I pay a wash service $29/month for unlimited car washes because my business use requires that the vehicle is clean at all times. Some days, I'll go twice. I view this as a deductible business expense above and beyond the standard mileage. So did my previous corporate employer when doing expense reports when using personal vehicle.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Wheelman said:


> You sure about this? I pay a wash service $29/month for unlimited car washes because my business use requires that the vehicle is clean at all times. Some days, I'll go twice. I view this as a deductible business expense above and beyond the standard mileage. So did my previous corporate employer when doing expense reports when using personal vehicle.


Car washing is considered vehicle maintenance and is included in standard mileage rate. Some will argue that TNC drivers wash their cars more than the average person to keep pax happy and therefore should be allowed to deduct the extra washes. If you share that opinion I would suggest you deduct a % of the car washes based on business use. Maybe the average person washes their car once a month but you have to wash yours once a week. In that case you would deduct 75% of your washes as extra business use. It's a position you could argue in an audit but you'd probably loose for sure if you took 100% of your washes. Personally, I don't deduct any car washes because *I'm sure* the IRS considers car washes to be maintenance and for the small amount of money the deduction is worth I don't want to argue or raise any red flags!
Your corporate employer was probable using the actual expense method.


----------



## Husky

I need to know why my 1099k said I was paid every month (_12 month) for 2015 n I didn't receive any money. Plus I didn't start til last year sept. So is fraud?


----------



## naplestom75

Punkygurly74 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorry if this has been asked and I did not see this.
> 
> I'm working with Turbo Tax filing my schedule C. Seems simple enough - right? Errrr... Again, I apologize if this is remedial to many of you.
> 
> Total Uber income earned: 2805.58
> *Split fare Fee: 5.25
> Safe Rides Fee 342.10
> Misc (fare) 50.00
> Referral 150.00
> Uber Service Fee - 561.16*
> Total: 3202.93
> 
> So, my understanding is all the bold is deductible? So, when filing I claim 3202.93 and then the rest are deductions? I really just want to make sure I have done this correctly.
> 
> Thank you so much!


I found the easiest thing to do:

1. go to partner website and go to tax info. click on tax summary for 2015.

2. the gross fares (Uber fee included) is your fares minus the fixed fees like SF rider b.s.

3. *.8 of that amount is what you should report as what they paid out to you.


----------



## CancelMan

Turbotax says I don't need to make an entry for my 1099-K. "That's because your 1099-K income should already be included in other income, such as your self-employment or rental income." Their example:

Richard is an Uber driver and gets a 1099-K that shows $15,000 in total fares. After Uber's commissions and fees, the amount he actually received was $10,000. He enters $15,000 as income and $5,000 as commissions under the Business Income and Expenses topic. If he also gets a 1099-MISC, he would enter it as additional income.


----------



## LAuberX

CancelMan said:


> Turbotax says I don't need to make an entry for my 1099-K. "That's because your 1099-K income should already be included in other income, such as your self-employment or rental income." Their example:
> 
> Richard is an Uber driver and gets a 1099-K that shows $15,000 in total fares. After Uber's commissions and fees, the amount he actually received was $10,000. He enters $15,000 as income and $5,000 as commissions under the Business Income and Expenses topic. If he also gets a 1099-MISC, he would enter it as additional income.


Which version of TurboTax are you using?


----------



## CancelMan

LAuberX said:


> Which version of TurboTax are you using?


 The online version - they are having me use Home and Business.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Husky said:


> I need to know why my 1099k said I was paid every month (_12 month) for 2015 n I didn't receive any money. Plus I didn't start til last year sept. So is fraud?





Husky said:


> I received my 1099k for 2015, I see on line 5k which stated on 1a of the amount which I was paid thru out last year., I found out uber fed id number is 80-0896455, my questione is ...is this legit that I been paid every month? and the 1099 is payment card and third party network transaction!? I didn't get pay monthly and I have the gross I made last year. can someone tell me is this legit? I didn't start as driver till approx. oct 2015. so where that monthly payment which stated on 1099? can someone help me with this issue. thanks in advance


It looks like Box 5k is for November. Is that the only box with an amount showing? Does it match your earnings for that month?


----------



## UberTaxPro

khurley said:


> Good afternoon,
> I'm filing my own taxes with a 1040 Schedule C form for the 1099-K I received. However, I am not clear on what to enter for lines F-J. I assumed for F it would be the cash method and for G yes. For H this is my first year riding with Uber, should I enter check the box that I started the company in 2015? For I and J I put no.
> 
> Can you please clarify if I need to check the box for H if this is my first year with Uber?
> Thanks!


yes if you started your ride share business in 2015 check yes for H
Here's a link to instructions for Schedule C https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040sc.pdf


----------



## UberPissed

Ubercentralnj said:


> Question: I drove for Uber and Lyft in 2015. I only grossed $270.00 from Lyft (Uber was close to $8,0000). Since the Lyft income is below the threshold do I need to include that income when I file?


All income must be reported, regardless of whether you received a document from the payor.


----------



## UberPissed

chrisprabhu said:


> We have to do a Schedule SE, right? Long or Short? Tips were <$80, do I have to report? Thanks so much for your help


All income must be reported. Sch C-EZ if expenses are under 5k, but i think that rule is thrown out if you take mileage. Can't recall. I just always use Sch C. Schedule SE is the self employment tax calculation and is done regardless of SchC or SchC-EZ.


----------



## UberPissed

Realityshark said:


> Why would anyone take tax advise from a random stranger on the internet?


Why would anyone become an uber driver?


----------



## LAuberX

CancelMan said:


> The online version - they are having me use Home and Business.


I used that version for the past 4 years, it prompted me to input the info from the 1099K in the "business" section... re start the "business" section/tab and have TurboTax "walk you through" all the fields.

It's in there somewhere... I just did it.


----------



## UberTaxPro

UberPissed said:


> All income must be reported. Sch C-EZ if expenses are under 5k, but i think that rule is thrown out if you take mileage. Can't recall. I just always use Sch C. Schedule SE is the self employment tax calculation and is done regardless of SchC or SchC-EZ.


schedule c-ez is good with standard mileage rate up to 5K total expenses.


----------



## Alexander

I think my last question got lost in the shuffle- I'm reposting the important part of it:

You mentioned previously that the standard deduction is $6300 for a single filer for 2015 and the personal exemption is $4000 for a single filer for 2015. This is actually the first time I am doing my taxes on my own, so I'm not sure what to make of these numbers. I am single with no dependents, and no one is claiming me as a dependent. Does this mean that, in addition to all the business related expenses (e.g. standard mileage deduction, business % of car loan interest, etc.), I also deduct $6300 + $4000 from my gross income? Or is it only the $4000?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Alexander said:


> I think my last question got lost in the shuffle- I'm reposting the important part of it:
> 
> You mentioned previously that the standard deduction is $6300 for a single filer for 2015 and the personal exemption is $4000 for a single filer for 2015. This is actually the first time I am doing my taxes on my own, so I'm not sure what to make of these numbers. I am single with no dependents, and no one is claiming me as a dependent. Does this mean that, in addition to all the business related expenses (e.g. standard mileage deduction, business % of car loan interest, etc.), I also deduct $6300 + $4000 from my gross income? Or is it only the $4000?


Are you using a tax software program such as Turbo Tax or Tax Act? If so, the program will ask you questions and walk you through the whole return.
The standard deduction is in place of filling out Schedule A with deductible items such as medical expenses, mortgage interest, real estate and personal property taxes. If you don't have those, or more than $6300 of them, you use that standard deduction amount instead. This and the personal exemption reduce your AGI (taxable income. )
All your self employment income and expenses are entered on Schedule C, and the net income is added in with other (W2, interest, etc) to arrive at your AGI.
If your self employment net income is $400 or more, you may have to pay FICA taxes for Social Security and Medicare, even if you don't owe any other income tax. Your tax software should walk you through that form (SE) as well.
I hope this helps. I am not a tax pro, but maybe one of them will step in to correct or clarify my answer as needed. Good luck!


----------



## Husky

Older Chauffeur said:


> It looks like Box 5k is for November. Is that the only box with an amount showing? Does it match your earnings for that month?


thanks for respond to my q. November is not same, and 5j is checked with amount , #3 checked number of payment transaction, 1a gross of payment card/third party. that it. I just think I should go to the address on the 1099k. and ask


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Husky said:


> thanks for respond to my q. November is not same, and 5j is checked with amount , #3 checked number of payment transaction, 1a gross of payment card/third party. that it. I just think I should go to the address on the 1099k. and ask


Are you subtracting Uber's commissions, SRF, tolls, etc from the gross amount shown? I think there is another form you can download that will explain how they arrived at the number they give you. If I understand what you wrote, 5j would be the amount of gross fares for October, before any of those deductions. If they showed 3 payment transactions, that matches what you said earlier about starting in ( or being paid in, perhaps) October, November and December.
If you read through some of the tax question threads I think you will find similar questions to yours, and the answer about the explanation of the 1099k from Uber.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Alexander said:


> I think my last question got lost in the shuffle- I'm reposting the important part of it:
> 
> You mentioned previously that the standard deduction is $6300 for a single filer for 2015 and the personal exemption is $4000 for a single filer for 2015. This is actually the first time I am doing my taxes on my own, so I'm not sure what to make of these numbers. I am single with no dependents, and no one is claiming me as a dependent. Does this mean that, in addition to all the business related expenses (e.g. standard mileage deduction, business % of car loan interest, etc.), I also deduct $6300 + $4000 from my gross income? Or is it only the $4000?


 First you will calculate your net business income or loss on Schedule C. Once you have your net profit or loss you'll calculate your self-employment tax on Schedule SE. Your self employment tax is made up of your social security and medicare tax(*FICA taxes*). All of that is done before you use your personal exemption and standard deduction. When that is done you'll transfer your income along with any other income you have to your 1040 and then use your personal exemption and standard deduction when calculating your *income tax*.
The personal exemption and standard deduction will reduce your* income tax* but not your *FICA tax*


----------



## Husky

I h


Older Chauffeur said:


> Are you subtracting Uber's commissions, SRF, tolls, etc from the gross amount shown? I think there is another form you can download that will explain how they arrived at the number they give you. If I understand what you wrote, 5j would be the amount of gross fares for October, before any of those deductions. If they showed 3 payment transactions, that matches what you said earlier about starting in ( or being paid in, perhaps) October, November and December.
> If you read through some of the tax question threads I think you will find similar questions to yours, and the answer about the explanation of the 1099k from Uber.


first I add what I make is same direct deposit. then on gross is less on 1099k. I have to report my gross as income, then on 1099k is little less , don't make sense to me. for example if I received 50 dollars (after they take their percentage) but on 1099k showed on 5k November is 90 dollars. is odd even I add tolls, tips ( if any) shouldnt be more then 30 dollars. now if their commission add on to mine, kinda odd cuz I shouldn't report their commission, just curious. sorry for all these question due to was my first time as driver for uber. I tried to find download of my tax which I could in old app, now they change to new apps and don't know where is the link to download from my account. .... they show gross 1a and oct 5j. and nov.5k. just don't match after deduct commission.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Still trying to help you here, but I'm flying blind. Did you only get paid a total of $50 in deposits for the entire month of November? What is the % commission that Uber takes, and what is the SRF on each trip?


----------



## Husky

Older Chauffeur said:


> Still trying to help you here, but I'm flying blind. Did you only get paid a total of $50 in deposits for the entire month of November? What is the % commission that Uber takes, and what is the SRF on each trip?


for that month I only drove one ride due to uber shorten my ride fare in oct. ( yes i was email to the point i don't want to drive anymore, i know the city and i know how to get riders, is so disappointed how could uber said where i start shouldn't be charge AND the request was from the Rider? rider didn't have problem cause i told em would be charge per their request) anyway I forgot the percentage.. I have to look again.. SFR think is 8 but not sure...what I add mine compare to 1099k is diff on gross is less. if I add my gross and 1099k. will be double the amount... I know bout tax cuz i worked for the city, theres gross and net. etc. i need link to download from uber of mine and see how they rate and tips etc. if anyone have that link please let me know. thank you so much. (BTW I drove only 2 months and not bad what I got)


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Husky,
Can you find similar info on your 1099k ?
"Uber sent me a 1099k. They also had a page that had 2 different sections, 1 side of page had 1099-K which showed my gross fares (uber fee included), tolls, SRF and totaled that up. On the right side of this page, it says, "1099-MISC Breakdown", and the total USD 0.00"
The poster was using 0.00 instead of his actual earnings, I believe.
The Uber commission is probably 28% and the SRF in SF is $1.35. So if you netted $50 on one trip, and they are showing a gross of $90, you would subtract $25.20 commission and $1.35 SRF, leaving you $63.45. Maybe there are more fees or deductions we aren't aware of without the breakdown form?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberTaxPro,
Can you help Husky with her questions? I don't have access to Uber 1099k info, as I don't drive for them. I can only go by what I have read here.


----------



## UberTaxPro

I'm trying on another thread.


----------



## Frontier Guy

Working on my taxes, according to Uber and Lyft I did not have enough earnings to generate a 1099 Misc or 1099-K, I was able to get my year end payout and tax summaries from both. I have Turbo Tax home and business, how do I enter this info in the business income section, also, I did it once, while going over the year end review, it's asking me about filing form SS-8, WTF is that?


----------



## UberTaxPro

Frontier Guy said:


> Working on my taxes, according to Uber and Lyft I did not have enough earnings to generate a 1099 Misc or 1099-K, I was able to get my year end payout and tax summaries from both. I have Turbo Tax home and business, how do I enter this info in the business income section, also, I did it once, while going over the year end review, it's asking me about filing form SS-8, WTF is that?


you need to put your uber and lyft income on schedule c. An SS-8 is an IRS form you can fill out to determine if someone is an employee or independent contractor.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Frontier Guy said:


> Working on my taxes, according to Uber and Lyft I did not have enough earnings to generate a 1099 Misc or 1099-K, I was able to get my year end payout and tax summaries from both. I have Turbo Tax home and business, how do I enter this info in the business income section, also, I did it once, while going over the year end review, it's asking me about filing form SS-8, WTF is that?


http://www.uberpeople.net/threads/how-to-do-uber-or-lyft-taxes-using-turbo-tax.60211/


----------



## Alexander

UberTaxPro said:


> First you will calculate your net business income or loss on Schedule C. Once you have your net profit or loss you'll calculate your self-employment tax on Schedule SE. Your self employment tax is made up of your social security and medicare tax(*FICA taxes*). All of that is done before you use your personal exemption and standard deduction. When that is done you'll transfer your income along with any other income you have to your 1040 and then use your personal exemption and standard deduction when calculating your *income tax*.
> The personal exemption and standard deduction will reduce your* income tax* but not your *FICA tax*


I don't understand this; according to the logic within, the inference is that FICA tax is always going to owed, so even if someone makes only $1 in the preceding year as taxable income, they still need to file their taxes (which is contrary to what I have been told about not having to file your taxes if your taxable income is less than the standard deduction + personal exemption).


----------



## UberTaxPro

Alexander said:


> I don't understand this; according to the logic within, the inference is that FICA tax is always going to owed, so even if someone makes only $1 in the preceding year as taxable income, they still need to file their taxes (which is contrary to what I have been told about not having to file your taxes if your taxable income is less than the standard deduction + personal exemption).


You have to file an income tax return if your *net earnings from self-employment* were $400 or more.


----------



## Alexander

Yup...time to see a professional. Thanks for the info, UberTaxPro ;-).


----------



## UberTaxPro

Alexander said:


> I don't understand this; according to the logic within, the inference is that FICA tax is always going to owed, so even if someone makes only $1 in the preceding year as taxable income, they still need to file their taxes (which is contrary to what I have been told about not having to file your taxes if your taxable income is less than the standard deduction + personal exemption).


Maybe this will help: The taxable income limit for filing this year is $10.300. So consider a W2 (not self employed) person who made $10,299 for 2015.
This person isn't required to file an income tax because he/she is below the $10,300 threshold and he/she has *already paid fica taxes*. If this person files they'll probably get back any income tax paid but* none of the fica tax*. Now a self employed person who made $10,299 hasn't had any fica deducted from his pay unless he paid estimated taxes. He needs to file to pay and/or reconcile his SE taxes. Does that help?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberTaxPro said:


> So how close do you come?


Update to my previous answer: I owe $1 less in taxes per my CPA than what Turbo Tax and I figured. You get what you pay for........


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Husky said:


> I h
> 
> first I add what I make is same direct deposit. then on gross is less on 1099k. I have to report my gross as income, then on 1099k is little less , don't make sense to me. for example if I received 50 dollars (after they take their percentage) but on 1099k showed on 5k November is 90 dollars. is odd even I add tolls, tips ( if any) shouldnt be more then 30 dollars. now if their commission add on to mine, kinda odd cuz I shouldn't report their commission, just curious. sorry for all these question due to was my first time as driver for uber. I tried to find download of my tax which I could in old app, now they change to new apps and don't know where is the link to download from my account. .... they show gross 1a and oct 5j. and nov.5k. just don't match after deduct commission.


Husky,
I just thought of another possibility. Did you get a signing bonus, or did you refer someone to drive? There has been some discussion here about the 1099k showing those payments, and a 1099misc covering the rest. Please see if you can download the 1099misc breakdown.


----------



## Husky

I found it n download it..whew.. now do I file what was deposit to bank and 1099 together? if I do will be double from bank direct deposit? can I email u what I have? if u don't mind


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## UberTaxPro

Husky said:


> I found it n download it..whew.. now do I file what was deposit to bank and 1099 together? if I do will be double from bank direct deposit? can I email u what I have? if u don't mind


are you using turbo tax?


----------



## Husky

UberTaxPro said:


> are you using turbo tax?


no, I am looking at the 1099k and the breakdown which I found online.( whew) still don't add from my direct deposit and 1099k even I break it down. still don't add. and No im not using turbo tax. I need to figure my gross and theirs is diff and why. even they state few I cancelled which I didn't, I am going to the office Monday cause I don't play with IRS lol. I own business before and worked for city and what I saw is fishy. I really appreciate you and older chauffeur try to help me, maybe I miss something... that's why I don't mind email my 1099 and all to you lol.. I even have copies of date, time, even claim I cancelled riders... I report my tax even I make one penny a year.
1099k breakdown gross fares uber fee included, tolls,safe riders fee still less then direct deposit after their commission. and referral fee with or without and other potential deductions still don't add up to my earn direct deposit.


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## UberTaxPro

Your 1099 being less than what you actually made shouldn't be a problem for *your* taxes. Request a corrected 1099 and point it out to them at headquarters if you want. Go ahead and file your taxes using the correct numbers from your records.


----------



## Husky

UberTaxPro said:


> Your 1099 being less than what you actually made shouldn't be a problem for *your* taxes. Request a corrected 1099 and point it out to them at headquarters if you want. Go ahead and file your taxes using the correct numbers from your records.


thanks, cuz if I use their number, in long run IRS will ask about the # I didn't report. I appreciate your help and understand NOT to add mine and theirs together...lol. cuz I once thought of add together!!! dud!!!!


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## UberTaxPro

Husky said:


> thanks, cuz if I use their number, in long run IRS will ask about the # I didn't report. I appreciate your help and understand NOT to add mine and theirs together...lol. cuz I once thought of add together!!! dud!!!!


Your a good example of why everyone should keep their own records and not depend on the companies!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberTaxPro said:


> you need to put your uber and lyft income on schedule c. An SS-8 is an IRS form you can fill out to determine if someone is an employee or independent contractor.


We should all file that. Put the IRS on notice.


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## UberTaxPro

Fuzzyelvis said:


> We should all file that. Put the IRS on notice.


Many on here already have. I tried to search a link for you but "ss-8" doesn't work in the search. It can take 2 to 6 months for a response for an SS-8 as they give the other party a chance to respond. I'm sure Uber already has a response worked out for every SS-8 it receives. 
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberTaxPro said:


> Many on here already have. I tried to search a link for you but "ss-8" doesn't work in the search. It can take 2 to 6 months for a response for an SS-8 as they give the other party a chance to respond. I'm sure Uber already has a response worked out for every SS-8 it receives.
> https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf


That's not the point. Flood the IRS with them. Plus, it certainly can't hurt any lawsuits down the road.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Fuzzyelvis said:


> That's not the point. Flood the IRS with them. Plus, it certainly can't hurt any lawsuits down the road.


The IRS is always "flooded". Doesn't bother them. How would it help with lawsuits? Basically a business can safely disregard any IRS SS-8 determination letter because of section 530 relief. This relief is available if there's a historical or tax law precedent for treating the type of worker in question as an independent contractor if 1) your business has always treated such workers as independent contractors and 2) has reported payments to them on Form 1099. When Section 530 relief is available, the IRS cannot force you to reclassify affected workers as employees.


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## UberTaxPro

The following are things that employers can do to keep their Independent Contractors from being classified as employees. Interesting (to me anyway)that Uber does every single one of them in their contract:
A written contract can help support a worker's independent contractor status and minimize ambiguity. The contract should:


Refer to the worker as a contractor and refer to payments as contract payments (not wages)
Permit the worker to take on other projects
Refrain from requiring full-time work or request daily visits to your premises
Specify that payment is due on completion of the project or at designated progress points
Limit the term, rather than be open-ended
State you won't pay for expenses except in specific instances.


----------



## c32amg

My 1099-k only shows GROSS income not NET income....it seems like I'm being forced to pay taxes on Uber fee...am I presuming correct? Do I use another form or am I suppose to ask Uber for a different tax form?


----------



## UberTaxPro

c32amg said:


> My 1099-k only shows GROSS income not NET income....it seems like I'm being forced to pay taxes on Uber fee...am I presuming correct? Do I use another form or am I suppose to ask Uber for a different tax form?


That's the way Uber does it. You'll just deduct the Uber commission and SRF on your schedule c.


----------



## c32amg

UberTaxPro said:


> That's the way Uber does it. You'll just deduct the Uber commission and SRF on your schedule c.


I haven't filed in over I think 7 years...I'm on disability and do this very part time only so I just take this to to a tax preparer and they know what to do?


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## UberTaxPro

c32amg said:


> I haven't filed in over I think 7 years...I'm on disability and do this very part time only so I just take this to to a tax preparer and they know what to do?


Just be sure to give them your total business miles from your mileage log and any other expenses you have like cell phone etc.. Tell them that the uber fees and SRF need to be deducted. You could just give him/her a link to this thread!


----------



## c32amg

UberTaxPro said:


> Just be sure to give them your total business miles from your mileage log and any other expenses you have like cell phone etc.. Tell them that the uber fees and SRF need to be deducted. You could just give him/her a link to this thread!


Cool got it...so fuel costs(I have receipts) miles from here...how do I use cellphone use and data?


----------



## UberTaxPro

c32amg said:


> Cool got it...so fuel costs(I have receipts) miles from here...how do I use cellphone use and data?


If you use the standard mileage(.575 cents per mile) rate you can't deduct fuel costs. Did you keep a mileage log? For your phone you have to figure how much was business use. For example if you used your phone 25% for business and your monthly bill is $100 you can deduct $25.00 of it.


----------



## Guest

I'm using the standard rate but this is the first year I put my car in service. This means I have to file form 4562 anyway, right?


----------



## UberTaxPro

chrisprabhu said:


> I'm using the standard rate but this is the first year I put my car in service. This means I have to file form 4562 anyway, right?


no, unless you have some other business property to depreciate


----------



## Guest

UberTaxPro said:


> no, unless you have some other business property to depreciate


 Thanks!


----------



## Husky

I


UberTaxPro said:


> Just be sure to give them your total business miles from your mileage log and any other expenses you have like cell phone etc.. Tell them that the uber fees and SRF need to be deducted. You could just give him/her a link to this thread!


urge every driver to print weekly summary, there had mileage, fare dates... I showed to my neighbor also drives uber, he even said doesn't match my net , for what I understand is what was deposit to my account is my income, Uber file their own commission which took out before pay us, we just need to file our income, mileage, gas, etc. also $ you pay uber , let me know if Im wrong.. actually UberTaxPro... the 1099 should be more then what was deposit right?


----------



## BaitNSwitch

UberTaxPro so I recently read an article about how to keep a detailed log on business mileage. There's a lot of confusion, there's one group of people that just notes start and stop odometer at the end of your work shift..

On the other hand, the article stated that if you get audited, you need to show pickup mileage, names of passengers/reason for the mileage that will corroborate the mileage that you show at the end of the year on your tax return. Simply noting down start and stop odometer readings will not suffice because people can just make numbers up.

So, in your expert opinion, what is the best way to record our trips and how detailed should we be?


----------



## Husky

when a friend drives taxi before told me to save all gas receipts, summaries ( of when you start/stop) pick up passengers) in uber case, keep log of what uber paid ( direct deposits), and what uber fee for each ride they took. tell me if im wrong UberTaxPro !!! BTW I didn't go to Uber office not sure if open, will go tomorrow..


----------



## UberTaxPro

BaitNSwitch said:


> UberTaxPro so I recently read an article about how to keep a detailed log on business mileage. There's a lot of confusion, there's one group of people that just notes start and stop odometer at the end of your work shift..
> 
> On the other hand, the article stated that if you get audited, you need to show pickup mileage, names of passengers/reason for the mileage that will corroborate the mileage that you show at the end of the year on your tax return. Simply noting down start and stop odometer readings will not suffice because people can just make numbers up.
> 
> So, in your expert opinion, what is the best way to record our trips and how detailed should we be?


TNC and ride-sharing businesses are still fairly new so there are not specific IRS guidelines yet. That being the case I think we can learn a lot from our big brother the taxi industry. Taxi companies all around the country use "trip sheets" to record their business activity. Here is link to the official trip sheet to be used by taxi drivers in CT. http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/taxi.pdf.
Remember that the IRS rules are written to cover a wide range of business that use vehicles. Things like "reason for the mileage" do not have to be stated if the reason is "obvious" . For a TNC driver the reason for mileage is obvious in my opinion. It's what you do. A salesman on the other hand might have different reasons for mileage, one trip he might be meeting a client and the next trip he might be looking for clients or delivering a product for example. The salesman has different reasons for mileage whereas TNC drivers have mostly the same reason every trip. Some things you mentioned like names of pax are just not available to TNC drivers most times.
Personally, I use a phone app to record my Uber miles and keep a downloaded copy of the Uber summary and trip maps to back up my phone app log.
So with the phone app miles and the trip records downloaded from Uber, I'm keeping everything that is on the taxi trip sheet that I linked to above. On the phone app I have the total "business miles for the shift". On the downloaded Uber records I have pickup and destination locations, time, date and fare. All kept contemporaneously as the IRS requires.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Husky said:


> I
> 
> urge every driver to print weekly summary, there had mileage, fare dates... I showed to my neighbor also drives uber, he even said doesn't match my net , for what I understand is what was deposit to my account is my income, Uber file their own commission which took out before pay us, we just need to file our income, mileage, gas, etc. also $ you pay uber , let me know if Im wrong.. actually UberTaxPro... the 1099 should be more then what was deposit right?


"the 1099 should be more then what was deposit right?" Yes your 1099k from Uber will have the SRF and Uber's commission included. You will deduct those out on your schedule c along with your other expenses.


----------



## maxub360

What is the proper data to record on a daily basis?


----------



## UberTaxPro

maxub360 said:


> What is the proper data to record on a daily basis?


You need a mileage log.


----------



## LAuberX

maxub360 said:


> What is the proper data to record on a daily basis?


date 
starting odometer reading at beginning of shift 
ending odometer reading at end of shift.


----------



## whatasteal

Dash Camera bought in 2015, can we write it off? Office expenses or supplies?
Thanks!


----------



## UberTaxPro

whatasteal said:


> Dash Camera bought in 2015, can we write it off? Office expenses or supplies?
> Thanks!


Office supplies under $200 per purchase, yes deductible as current expense.
Dash Cam if over $200 should be capitalized and depreciated over 5 years. You could expense the entire amount in 2015 by using a section 179 deduction. Special rules apply for the section 179 deduction. One rule is you have to have a positive net income....you can't use a section 179 deduction and have it bring your net income below $0.


----------



## Bill Collector

This thread has been helpful. I did read through most of the posts, but more I read more headache I got. I just want to put forth my situation and please let me know if what I am doing to calculate the PROFIT is reasonable. I do have all the logs and receipts. If you were IRS, does this raise any audit flag? Thanks!!!!

1099-K BREAKDOWN:
Gross Fares $2000
Split Fare Fee $10
Safe Rides Fee $300
TOTAL $2310

1099-MISC BREAKDOWN:
Misc (Other) $0.04
Referral/Incen $20
TOTAL $20.04

Uber Service Fee $500
On Trip Mileage 800 miles

MY CALCULATION:
Uber Actual $ $1910 (money that got deposited in the bank)
Uber Miles 1500 miles (including dead head & scouting miles)

Using standard IRS deduction of $0.575, mileage is $862.50
So, my PROFIT will be ($2310-$500-$862.50) = $947.50
I do have $410 additional Uber related expenses.

Finally, NET PROFIT will be $537.50


----------



## UberTaxPro

Bill Collector said:


> This thread has been helpful. I did read through most of the posts, but more I read more headache I got. I just want to put forth my situation and please let me know if what I am doing to calculate the PROFIT is reasonable. I do have all the logs and receipts. If you were IRS, does this raise any audit flag? Thanks!!!!
> 
> 1099-K BREAKDOWN:
> Gross Fares $2000
> C $10
> Safe Rides Fee $300
> TOTAL $2310
> 
> 1099-MISC BREAKDOWN:
> Misc (Other) $0.04
> Referral/Incen $20
> TOTAL $20.04
> 
> Uber Service Fee $500
> On Trip Mileage 800 miles
> 
> MY CALCULATION:
> Uber Actual $ $1910 (money that got deposited in the bank)
> Uber Miles 1500 miles (including dead head & scouting miles)
> 
> Using standard IRS deduction of $0.575, mileage is $862.50
> So, my PROFIT will be ($2310-$500-$862.50) = $947.50
> I do have $410 additional Uber related expenses.
> 
> Finally, NET PROFIT will be $537.50


 I can really relate to your headache comment! Taxes are a taxing subject but its worth the effort.
Looks good to me with a couple little adjustments:

Gross income = $2330.04 (1099K + 1099m)
Uber Service Fee -$500 
Uber Service Fee - $10
Safe Rides Fee -$300
mileage deduction -$862.5
additional expenses -$410
________________________
net income $247.54


----------



## Bill Collector

UberTaxPro said:


> I can really relate to your headache comment! Taxes are a taxing subject but its worth the effort.
> Looks good to me with a couple little adjustments:
> 
> Gross income = $2330.04 (1099K + 1099m)
> Uber Service Fee -$500
> Uber Service Fee - $10
> Safe Rides Fee -$300
> mileage deduction -$862.5
> additional expenses -$410
> ________________________
> net income $247.54


Thanks! And total on trip time spent was 45 hours. If I include dead & scouting miles time, it is about 55 hours. Measly $4.50/HR!!!!! Holy Mackerel Uber!


----------



## whatasteal

UberTaxPro said:


> Office supplies under $200 per purchase, yes deductible as current expense.
> Dash Cam if over $200 should be capitalized and depreciated over 5 years. You could expense the entire amount in 2015 by using a section 179 deduction. Special rules apply for the section 179 deduction. One rule is you have to have a positive net income....you can't use a section 179 deduction and have it bring your net income below $0.


Thanks for the quick reply. It was under $200. 
I'm using TT Home and Business, two of the sub categories under business expenses are 'office expenses' or 'supplies'. Does it matter which I put the dash cam under or am I splitting hairs to much? LOL

Thanks again!


----------



## UberTaxPro

whatasteal said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. It was under $200.
> I'm using TT Home and Business, two of the sub categories under business expenses are 'office expenses' or 'supplies'. Does it matter which I put the dash cam under or am I splitting hairs to much? LOL
> 
> Thanks again!


It's not really office expense or supplies so I'd be more inclined to list it in box 27a on your schedule c and then describe what it is in Part V line 48
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf
I'm not sure how to get there in TT but I believe there is a "form view" where you can enter directly into the form.


----------



## whatasteal

UberTaxPro said:


> It's not really office expense or supplies so I'd be more inclined to list it in box 27a on your schedule c and then describe what it is in Part V line 48
> https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf
> I'm not sure how to get there in TT but I believe there is a "form view" where you can enter directly into the form.


Appreciate your help. The last sub cat is 'other expenses'. When entered there with description and amount, it did list the amount in box 27a and description in Part V line 48.


----------



## MRVEGAS711

With TT, I grossed $3900 on Uber yet after deductions (pretty honest BTW) I actually made $144 self employed! Is this normal?????


----------



## UberTaxPro

MRVEGAS711 said:


> With TT, I grossed $3900 on Uber yet after deductions (pretty honest BTW) I actually made $144 self employed! Is this normal?????


not really, you've done a lot better than most!


----------



## MRVEGAS711

Paying the price for my honesty!!! THAT IS IF....most drivers "lose" money.


----------



## Bill Collector

MRVEGAS711 said:


> With TT, I grossed $3900 on Uber yet after deductions (pretty honest BTW) I actually made $144 self employed! Is this normal?????


What was your dead miles vs on trip ones? Mine was 700 vs 800.


----------



## MRVEGAS711

My miles are not broken down to that extent. Its from my first call till I sign out...per day, while working.


----------



## ThaUBBA

I've seen a lot of people say you cannot claim a home office if you have a driving business, any information of this and/or if this holds 100% true?


----------



## money time

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Hi
Whats your recomemdation.
I did 2700 rides on 2015 and my net is $50K. I want to take the standard 57¢ 
And report driving 50,000 miles. Will this get me in trouble?


----------



## money time

UberTaxPro said:


> "What if we didn't keep logs of our miles?"
> Not keeping records is not an option when you have your own business.
> "What are our options then?"
> Get a W-2 job


You must have a beter afvise. Many of us dont track their milage.


----------



## therides

money time said:


> You must have a beter afvise. Many of us dont track their milage.


Not really... His advice is very sound


----------



## money time

theridesharecpa.com said:


> Not really... His advice is very sound


So
What would yiu do personally, if you did not track your miles.
Just lay dead????


----------



## Older Chauffeur

money time said:


> So
> What would yiu do personally, if you did not track your miles.
> Just lay dead????


You can claim the miles shown by Uber, but they only track the period when you have pax on board. Uber info would be your supporting documentation for those miles. But you would miss out on all the "dead" miles you drove to get to those pax, along with driving to surge areas, or cruising waiting for a ping. To satisfy IRS requirements to claim those business miles, you need a contemporaneous log, showing odometer readings for the start and end of each driving shift.
Some might say that this is another example of what Uber should have covered with prospective "partners," along with explaining the risks to personal insurance policies and how some locales were designating ride share illegal.
But it is what it is. If you "guesstimate" your mileage without a supporting log, and get audited, the IRS may disallow the deduction, and charge you interest and penalties. That could get expensive.
If you are Ubering now, start a log for this year. It can be as simple as using a DayPlanner, which is what I have done for the last thirteen years.
Disclosure: I'm not a tax professional. I use a CPA.


----------



## money time

Older Chauffeur said:


> You can claim the miles shown by Uber, but they only track the period when you have pax on board. Uber info would be your supporting documentation for those miles. But you would miss out on all the "dead" miles you drove to get to those pax, along with driving to surge areas, or cruising waiting for a ping. To satisfy IRS requirements to claim those business miles, you need a contemporaneous log, showing odometer readings for the start and end of each driving shift.
> Some might say that this is another example of what Uber should have covered with prospective "partners," along with explaining the risks to personal insurance policies and how some locales were designating ride share illegal.
> But it is what it is. If you "guesstimate" your mileage without a supporting log, and get audited, the IRS may disallow the deduction, and charge you interest and penalties. That could get expensive.
> If you are Ubering now, start a log for this year. It can be as simple as using a DayPlanner, which is what I have done for the last thirteen years.
> Disclosure: I'm not a tax professional. I use a CPA.


Yes i will start this.
Thanks for the advise.
I thought having a log evidence like repairs, bill of sale, oil changes where milage is mentioned. But i think this is too naive of me to think irs will settle for that
I also took some photos with my id on the dashboard showing odometer reading when i bought the car
But i think this will not do if they want to get me.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

money time said:


> Yes i will start this.
> Thanks for the advise.
> I thought having a log evidence like repairs, bill of sale, oil changes where milage is mentioned. But i think this is too naive of me to think irs will settle for that
> I also took some photos with my id on the dashboard showing odometer reading when i bought the car
> But i think this will not do if they want to get me.


Those items document odometer readings on given dates; what you need are documents showing your business use. Two entirely different things. Good luck going forward.


----------



## money time

Older Chauffeur said:


> Those items document odometer readings on given dates; what you need are documents showing your business use. Two entirely different things. Good luck going forward.


Yes .i had a feeling it will not go
Well what can i do no logs for 2015. I guess if i'm audited, i cant allow myself to fall , i will just fake a whole log book for the entore year.


----------



## UberTaxPro

money time said:


> You must have a beter afvise. Many of us dont track their milage.


Sorry...I was loosing my patience that day!


----------



## They_Call_Me_Soap

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


I am a new driver and was curious about my tax classification. I've always been of the understanding that I'd want a Limited Liability status as the owner of a business. Of course I realize this is more like contracting. should I still pursue an L.L. Status and would that entail aquiring an actual business license or would it suit me better to classify as a sole proprietor?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

I'll leave the LLC discussion to the experts. I operate as a sole proprietor, and am required to have a business license from the city where I live. When they notified me of this requirement, the city licensing staff informed me that they knew of my business through my tax returns. Since I don't actually operate in the city in which I live, it seems to me to be a bit of a grab on their part. Your city regulations may be different.


----------



## They_Call_Me_Soap

Older Chauffeur said:


> I'll leave the LLC discussion to the experts. I operate as a sole proprietor, and am required to have a business license from the city where I live. When they notified me of this requirement, the city licensing staff informed me that they knew of my business through my tax returns. Since I don't actually operate in the city in which I live, it seems to me to be a bit of a grab on their part. Your city regulations may be different.


Oddly enough, the county in which I reside does not require me to have a business license to operate a business. Thank you for the insight!


----------



## terrible

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


I'm doing my taxes on Turbo tax. This is my first year. Ive heard diffrent things concerning how i should enter my uber earnings. I know were classified as Contractors... but also just found out that we can classify ourselves as "buisness owners". My question is, we Only enter uber in the 1099 MISC section, and NOT as a W2?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

terrible said:


> I'm doing my taxes on Turbo tax. This is my first year. Ive heard diffrent things concerning how i should enter my uber earnings. I know were classified as Contractors... but also just found out that we can classify ourselves as "buisness owners". My question is, we Only enter uber in the 1099 MISC section, and NOT as a W2?


I'm not sure where you are finding "MISC," but your 1099 doesn't go directly on your 1040 income where your W2 income does. You need a Schedule C version of TurboTax, either Deluxe if using the CD, or Home and Business online/download. T/T will walk you through the vehicle expenses, but don't forget things like cell phone use for business, water and mints, etc. The resulting profit or loss will flow to your 1040. If you net $400 or more, you will also pay FICA, which it will also figure for you.
I'm not a tax pro, just familiar with the basics.


----------



## PorkRollUberAndCheese

I just want to confirm something because my taxes got out of whack.

If you're putting your miles on a schedule C, you should not be filling out a Form 2106, correct?


----------



## StarzykCPA

PorkRollUberAndCheese said:


> I just want to confirm something because my taxes got out of whack.
> 
> If you're putting your miles on a schedule C, you should not be filling out a Form 2106, correct?


Yes, that's correct. Form 2106 is for employees, and you are considered self-employed.


----------



## Bill Collector

Quick question about eBay earnings. I sell items that I find in yard sales & curbside. Sometimes I make more than ubering. PayPal is where eBay deposits the money. I have not been keeping track of actual profits. Does this kind of income fall under schedule C as well? Amount we are talking about is around $4K before expenses. Thanks.


----------



## therides

Bill Collector said:


> Quick question about eBay earnings. I sell items that I find in yard sales & curbside. Sometimes I make more than ubering. PayPal is where eBay deposits the money. I have not been keeping track of actual profits. Does this kind of income fall under schedule C as well? Amount we are talking about is around $4K before expenses. Thanks.


Yes


----------



## ProudUberDriver

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Ok Mr. Tax attorney, I hope you can help with this one because I've never experienced this before.
My 2015 tax statement has a gross amount that's higher than what UBER actually deposited in my bank account.
I checked the statement on line and and it shows gross fares then tolls then rider fees.
Why is there a line for tolls if the gross fares almost equals the total amount placed in my bank?
In other words, the amount deposited in my bank doesn't reflect what Rasier claims I made.
I did the math and the amount deposited should be the fare split with UBER plus tolls in one lump sum.
Where is this extra income? I don't see it and I will not pay tax on income I didn't get.
Please help
Oh, before I forget, I know the discrepancy can't be withholding because there's no W-2.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

It being tax pro crunch time, I'm guessing U.P. is busy with his paying clients. So while you await his reply, I'll step in with a little encouragement in the meantime.
Uber shows the gross fares plus SRF and tolls on their 1099. You deduct their commissions from the gross fares, along with the SRF fees, which they also kept, as those amounts are not income to you. You also deduct the tolls, as those are reimbursements for out of pocket expenses. Once you subtract these items from the 1099 gross, it should match your electronic deposits. All of these you list as expenses on your Schedule C, along with business use of your cell phone, water, mints, etc., to determine your profit or loss.
You can also search the taxes forum for "1099" and read the posts for a more thorough explanation. I think Uber also provided some sort of instructions. I'll have to search, but I think it was listed as "administrative" or some such thing. I don't Uber, but look in the email notice about your 1099. Good luck!
Edit: they called it a "summary." Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## UberTaxPro

ProudUberDriver said:


> Ok Mr. Tax attorney, I hope you can help with this one because I've never experienced this before.
> My 2015 tax statement has a gross amount that's higher than what UBER actually deposited in my bank account.
> I checked the statement on line and and it shows gross fares then tolls then rider fees.
> Why is there a line for tolls if the gross fares almost equals the total amount placed in my bank?
> In other words, the amount deposited in my bank doesn't reflect what Rasier claims I made.
> I did the math and the amount deposited should be the fare split with UBER plus tolls in one lump sum.
> Where is this extra income? I don't see it and I will not pay tax on income I didn't get.
> Please help
> Oh, before I forget, I know the discrepancy can't be withholding because there's no W-2.


Your 1099 gross includes SRF and Uber fees that you will deduct on your schedule C. Tolls are a reimbursement that you won't be able to deduct. Any business tolls not reimbursed you'll be able to deduct.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberTaxPro said:


> Your 1099 gross includes SRF and Uber fees that you will deduct on your schedule C. Tolls are a reimbursement that you won't be able to deduct. Any business tolls not reimbursed you'll be able to deduct.


Thanks for clarifying how to handle the reimbursed tolls. When my clients include reimbursed expenses in the 1099, I list those expenses as "other." But they don't break them out like Uber does on the 1099, they are included in the total. This actually happens infrequently.


----------



## Uberdancer

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


So, you've been driving, you've had a couple of rides ... You decide to drive towards a surge area... You turn off the app and drive several miles to a surging neighborhood, or to another city, and turn the app back on... Can those miles while you're offline be deducted??


----------



## therides

Uberdancer said:


> So, you've been driving, you've had a couple of rides ... You decide to drive towards a surge area... You turn off the app and drive several miles to a surging neighborhood, or to another city, and turn the app back on... Can those miles while you're offline be deducted??


Miles you deduct have nothing to do with app being on or off. Was the purpose of the trip business or personal? That's what determines the deductibility...


----------



## Older Chauffeur

But if the app is on you are available to accept rides, which it seems would establish business use of the vehicle.


----------



## UberPissed

Sorry - haven't been on in a few weeks - any outstanding tax issues?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberPissed said:


> Sorry - haven't been on in a few weeks - any outstanding tax issues?


Hey, I thought you were hibernating until April 15th! There were a couple of questions on the last page or two, but it's been mostly the same old issues.


----------



## Kevin7889

I have mileiq app and I drove a little over 1,608 dollars in business miles in one month. What percentage of my net should I set aside for taxes every week??


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Kevin7889 said:


> I have mileiq app and I drove a little over 1,608 dollars in business miles in one month. What percentage of my net should I set aside for taxes every week??


Not enough info. Where did the dollar figure come from? Is $1608 your deposited earnings, or did you drive 2977+ miles at $0.54 per mile (the IRS std mile ded) for Uber/Lyft?


----------



## UberPissed

Self employment tax = net income X .9235 X .153. 

You would pay income tax based on the marginal rates. 

So if your "taxable" (not gross) income is 10,000 you would pay $1,000 in income tax and about $1,385 in SEP tax for a total of 2385. Quarterly payments should be around 600. 

Although at that level you will get the EITC if you qualify - so that would be 400-500 bucks.


----------



## Jesus Pereda JR

20 percents uber/lyft fee i paid them is tax deductible?


----------



## therides

Jesus Pereda JR said:


> 20 percents uber/lyft fee i paid them is tax deductible?


Yes, it's not an income item for you, it's your expense and Uber's income


----------



## Jesus Pereda JR

therides said:


> Yes, it's not an income item for you, it's your expense and Uber's income


Thank you.. I gotta call pro tax..


----------



## therides

Jesus Pereda JR said:


> Thank you.. I gotta call pro tax..


Not sure what you mean by pro tax, I'm a CPA... You are most welcome!


----------



## UberPissed

Jesus Pereda JR said:


> 20 percents uber/lyft fee i paid them is tax deductible?


Yes - deductible as commission and fees on the schedule C


----------



## rideshare101

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


I'm very new to ridesharing and life as an independent contractor. I have actually been driving full time. From my understanding thus far, this means I should pay taxes on a quarterly schedule, correct? If so, how much do I pay? 15%, or 20%, or 25%, or 30%? I've heard many different answers, and I get the feeling few know what they are talking about, or most drive part time instead of full time. Thanks for any help you can provide.


----------



## UberPissed

rideshare101 said:


> I'm very new to ridesharing and life as an independent contractor. I have actually been driving full time. From my understanding thus far, this means I should pay taxes on a quarterly schedule, correct? If so, how much do I pay? 15%, or 20%, or 25%, or 30%? I've heard many different answers, and I get the feeling few know what they are talking about, or most drive part time instead of full time. Thanks for any help you can provide.


Read through this thread... I put in a good way to calculate your tax liability. For most people earning less than 30k, you can withhold 30% and be more than fine. Remember - self employment tax is 15.% plus your applicable income tax rate.


----------



## JasonB

My 1099-k 2015 breakdown looks like this:

Gross Fares: $12124 (Uber Fee Included)
Safe Ride Fees: $1201
Airport Fee: $7.32

So my Tax burden is:

$12124 (gross fares) - $2424(which is gross fares - Uber 20% cut) - $1201 (SRF) - (.575 * Uber Mileage) - (Car Washes and random business expenses) = Total Tax Liability

Does this look correct? If so, which parts go on the schedule C deductions, just the $2424, which is Uber 20% commission?

I'm also a bit unsure if Uber when they say (Uber Fee included) that means I can take 20% of my Gross Fares and deduct it.

Thanks so much!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

All expenses, including mileage from your contemporaneous log, etc go on Schedule C. If you are using a tax program such as TurboTax, it should walk you through it. 
Deduct Uber 20% commission and SRF and you should match the deposits made to your account. This is the gross income from your business.
More info available if you read Uber Pissed and Uber Tax Pro posts.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberPissed said:


> Sorry - haven't been on in a few weeks - any outstanding tax issues?


Hi, 
I pm'd you and UberTaxPro a non-Uber question when you have time.
Thanks.


----------



## UberPissed

JasonB said:


> My 1099-k 2015 breakdown looks like this:
> 
> Gross Fares: $12124 (Uber Fee Included)
> Safe Ride Fees: $1201
> Airport Fee: $7.32
> So my Tax burden is:
> $12124 (gross fares) - $2424(which is gross fares - Uber 20% cut) - $1201 (SRF) - (.575 * Uber Mileage) - (Car Washes and random business expenses) = Total Tax Liability
> Does this look correct? If so, which parts go on the schedule C deductions, just the $2424, which is Uber 20% commission?
> I'm also a bit unsure if Uber when they say (Uber Fee included) that means I can take 20% of my Gross Fares and deduct it.
> 
> Thanks so much!


I think you did the math wrong - Uber takes 20% of your fares, not fees. Here is an example on the correct math:

12,000 gross fares + fees
(1,200) SRF
---------
10,800 net fare
(2,160) 20% commission
---------
8640 net fares (earnings after uber's cut and all fees)
(xxxxx) mileage * .575
(xxxxx) all other expenses
---------
(xxxxx) net profit

[net profit] x .9235 x .153 = self employment tax
[self employment tax] x .5 = self-employment above the line deduction
plus you pay income tax on your net profit as well, which is harder to calculate, since it is done based on marginal rates


----------



## JasonB

UberPissed said:


> I think you did the math wrong - Uber takes 20% of your fares, not fees. Here is an example on the correct math:
> 
> 12,000 gross fares + fees
> (1,200) SRF
> ---------
> 10,800 net fare
> (2,160) 20% commission
> ---------
> 8640 net fares (earnings after uber's cut and all fees)
> (xxxxx) mileage * .575
> (xxxxx) all other expenses
> ---------
> (xxxxx) net profit
> 
> [net profit] x .9235 x .153 = self employment tax
> [self employment tax] x .5 = self-employment above the line deduction
> plus you pay income tax on your net profit as well, which is harder to calculate, since it is done based on marginal rates


Thanks so much for the clarification!

Highly appreciated


----------



## calibloodzz

Hi Tax Pros

If I rent a vehicle for business activity and want to claim it along with fuel, do I have to keep a SEPARATE log book from my personal vehicle?


----------



## UberTaxPro

calibloodzz said:


> Hi Tax Pros
> 
> If I rent a vehicle for business activity and want to claim it along with fuel, do I have to keep a SEPARATE log book from my personal vehicle?


separate log for each vehicle ALWAYS


----------



## UberPissed

calibloodzz said:


> Hi Tax Pros
> 
> If I rent a vehicle for business activity and want to claim it along with fuel, do I have to keep a SEPARATE log book from my personal vehicle?


Yes, but only if you are doing business activity with it.

I have a spreadsheet with 10 columns. Each colum has a total miles driven for each category, and the first and last column have a ODO-In and ODO-Out column (beginning and end of day odometer reading). Then the cells have formulas so it does all of the math.

The reason - I have many types of deductible miles. I have work miles, unreimbrusable non-commute work miles, commuting miles, UBER miles, charity miles, etc. THis is a one stop shop for my mileage. I take pics of my odometer on my phone, and that gives me a geotag on the pic, with the time and location of the picture.


----------



## ProudUberDriver

UberTaxPro said:


> Your 1099 gross includes SRF and Uber fees that you will deduct on your schedule C. Tolls are a reimbursement that you won't be able to deduct. Any business tolls not reimbursed you'll be able to deduct.


Hi. Just to clarify, I am asking about taking a deduction for tolls. I'm trying to figure out the 1099-k statement. According to UBER, I earned ten grand yet my deposits don't reflect that. The statement has gross fares then tolls. If the tolls are part of my deposit, (part of gross daredevil) why is there a line for tolls? I did the math and it looks like I earned an extra three grand. Where is this money? I never saw it. Why am I paying taxes on money that never went into my account? I do not understand how UBER is calculating the income. Plus, I don't understand something else. If I pay tolls and then get the money back, shouldn't that offset each other? How can tolls be considered income if I'm getting back what I laid out in the first place? Which government official decided on this issue? Sorry for the rant but I feel like I'm paying taxes on something I didn't get.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

ProudUberDriver said:


> Hi. Just to clarify, I am asking about taking a deduction for tolls. I'm trying to figure out the 1099-k statement. According to UBER, I earned ten grand yet my deposits don't reflect that. The statement has gross fares then tolls. If the tolls are part of my deposit, (part of gross daredevil) why is there a line for tolls? I did the math and it looks like I earned an extra three grand. Where is this money? I never saw it. Why am I paying taxes on money that never went into my account? I do not understand how UBER is calculating the income. Plus, I don't understand something else. If I pay tolls and then get the money back, shouldn't that offset each other? How can tolls be considered income if I'm getting back what I laid out in the first place? Which government official decided on this issue? Sorry for the rant but I feel like I'm paying taxes on something I didn't get.


Same answer I gave you in my post #337 in this thread. And Uber Tax Pro has modified his stance on reimbursed tolls, discussed in another thread.
The amount shown on the 1099 is the gross, according to Uber. On Schedule C you are going to deduct as business expenses the commission, the SRF, and the reimbursed tolls. That amount should be the same as your deposits.
You also deduct mileage, cell phone use for business, any water, mints, etc you gave away. If you paid any tolls or parking for which you were not reimbursed, also deduct those. That's how you arrive at your net income.


----------



## ProudUberDriver

Okay I'm a little confused. I thought the only tolls I can deduct are the ones I didn't get reimbursed for. Even Stride who sent an e-mail last week about deductions said the same thing. 
There's no commission on my 1099 so I'm not worried about that.
As for other deductions, I hope my repairs, car washes, gas and depreciation is enough to knock down my tax burden.
Thanks Older Chauffeur, I do appreciate the response.


----------



## SafeT

Some apps for smartphones only track miles (mileiq for instance), not odometer. I have read that method won't hold up to audit. But those companies insist odometer is not required with computer mileage tracking. Are drivers who use those type apps fooling themselves? I am using an app that tracks odometer.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

ProudUberDriver said:


> Okay I'm a little confused. I thought the only tolls I can deduct are the ones I didn't get reimbursed for. Even Stride who sent an e-mail last week about deductions said the same thing.
> There's no commission on my 1099 so I'm not worried about that.
> As for other deductions, I hope my repairs, car washes, gas and depreciation is enough to knock down my tax burden.
> Thanks Older Chauffeur, I do appreciate the response.


The reason there is a $3000 gap between your 1099 and your direct deposits is Uber's *commissions and fees.* There is something called a 1099 Summary or Tax Summary that you need to download with the 1099k that explains it. I don't have this to look at, as I don't drive for Uber, but I'm going by what others have posted. 
For myself, occasionally a client might include reimbursed expenses in my 1099, usually for parking. They already paid me back for these out of pocket expenses, so I deduct them on Schedule C, the thus not paying any tax on that money. You need to do the same with Uber, so that you pay taxes based on *your earnings, not Uber's credit card charges.*


----------



## Older Chauffeur

ProudUberDriver said:


> Okay I'm a little confused. I thought the only tolls I can deduct are the ones I didn't get reimbursed for. Even Stride who sent an e-mail last week about deductions said the same thing.
> There's no commission on my 1099 so I'm not worried about that.
> As for other deductions, I hope my repairs, car washes, gas and depreciation is enough to knock down my tax burden.
> Thanks Older Chauffeur, I do appreciate the response.


If you are deducting miles using the standard mileage rate, you can't deduct for gas, repairs and depreciation on top of that. For most Uber drivers the SMR is going to give the better deduction, and the lower tax liability. Car washes are discussed in the tax threads, with different opinions. Some say the extra washes, beyond weekly would be deductible because they are directly attributable to Uber driving. This would be in addition to the SMR deduction.
If you are deducting actual vehicle costs of operation, you have to take the percentage of business use against the total, so I guess you would still need the mileage record.
The IRS says you need a contemporaneous mileage record, showing business use. I do it the old fashioned way, with odometer readings in a DayPlanner, so I'm not up to speed on the digital apps, although I saw an ad for one today I might look into.


----------



## UberTaxPro

ProudUberDriver said:


> Hi. Just to clarify, I am asking about taking a deduction for tolls. I'm trying to figure out the 1099-k statement. According to UBER, I earned ten grand yet my deposits don't reflect that. The statement has gross fares then tolls. If the tolls are part of my deposit, (part of gross daredevil) why is there a line for tolls? I did the math and it looks like I earned an extra three grand. Where is this money? I never saw it. Why am I paying taxes on money that never went into my account? I do not understand how UBER is calculating the income. Plus, I don't understand something else. If I pay tolls and then get the money back, shouldn't that offset each other? How can tolls be considered income if I'm getting back what I laid out in the first place? Which government official decided on this issue? Sorry for the rant but I feel like I'm paying taxes on something I didn't get.


Just to clarify...Any expense(including tolls) that is included in your 1099 gross amount can be deducted. Look at your uber tax summary to see what's included in your 1099. Mine included SRF, commissions and tolls. You can also in addition to the standard mileage deduction deduct any business related parking fees and business related tolls that weren't reimbursed.


----------



## Oscar Levant

DRiver II said:


> is there a standard earnings to deduction ratio that is red flagged by the IRS?
> 
> I calculated my deductions to be over twice my earnings for rideshare in 2015.


When I was driving UberX, the IRS deduction reduced my net to practically nothing. I didn't worry about an audit, heck,
I just following the directions on TurboTax, and it figured it out for me. If you are on the up and up, you have nothing to fear, flag or not flag.


----------



## ballparkboys

Thanks for the help. I've got a record of 272 trips last year (according to the phone app), yet my SRF's are $285. How is this the case? Can we really trust these numbers from Uber?


----------



## ballparkboys

Nevermind...It was right


----------



## UberTaxPro

ballparkboys said:


> Nevermind...It was right


Doesn't mean you can trust them!


----------



## Null

I know standard mileage rate includes normal auto insurance. However, if you purchase a TNC Endorsement on a standard policy, is the TNC portion of the premium deductible? This is added on insurance vs something required to drive a car.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Null said:


> I know standard mileage rate includes normal auto insurance. However, if you purchase a TNC Endorsement on a standard policy, is the TNC portion of the premium deductible? This is added on insurance vs something required to drive a car.


I'm not exactly sure what a TNC endorsement is but if it's an added insurance like you say it's not deductible in addition to standard mileage deduction.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


In the Chicago forum, posted as "tax question," cubs121221 asked if he could deduct as a business expense the $1000 insurance deductible he had to pay so that James River would cover his damages after an uninsured driver caused an accident. I suggested he post here, but haven't seen it yet, so I'm asking, as I want to know the answer myself. 
From what I read, you have to take it as a Schedule A miscellaneous loss, subject to those rules. (Minus the first $100, then minus 10% of AGI.) I told him that and provided the information I found to back it up. But I'm not convinced that there isn't a loophole or rule/circumstance that would allow it.
What say you?
Thanks.


----------



## UberTaxPro

The rules for determining the amount of deductible loss and where the loss is reported on your income tax return vary depending upon whether the loss is business property, investment property, or personal-use property.
For losses of business property once you've calculated the amount of your loss(on form 4684) and subtracted the amount of your reimbursement, the remainder is your deductible loss (or gain).
When you suffer damage to mixed use property like your car, your loss must be proportionately divided between the two types of usage. You will actually treat the event as if it were two separate losses. The $100 and 10 percent of AGI reduction applies only to the personal portion of the loss.


----------



## UberPissed

What UberTaxPro said - that was actually out of my wheelhouse. Thanks for the info.


----------



## ismoklikachimny

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


What if I started the year with one car, and then I purchased a new vehicle? How do I go about filling out a 1099 with that sort of situation, does anyone have experience with this? I started driving in June, and then in August I started to use the car I purchased for the remainder of the year.

FYI I drove part time and used my car about 60% of the time with Uber.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## UberTaxPro

ismoklikachimny said:


> What if I started the year with one car, and then I purchased a new vehicle? How do I go about filling out a 1099 with that sort of situation, does anyone have experience with this? I started driving in June, and then in August I started to use the car I purchased for the remainder of the year.
> 
> FYI I drove part time and used my car about 60% of the time with Uber.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Why do you need to fill out a 1099? Did you have drivers working for you?


----------



## ismoklikachimny

UberTaxPro said:


> Why do you need to fill out a 1099? Did you have drivers working for you?


Eeek that came out wrong then. Sorry for the confusion.

I mean't I used a personal vehicle (car #1) then began using the vehicle I purchased (car #2) in August. How would I go about this (considering paying 2 registrations and all that). I am about to file tonight, and I have all my mileage info ready to go for each vehicle, I just dont know if there is a way to enter information for 2 vehicles in Turbo Tax?

Thanks TaxPro!


----------



## UberTaxPro

ismoklikachimny said:


> Eeek that came out wrong then. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> I mean't I used a personal vehicle (car #1) then began using the vehicle I purchased (car #2) in August. How would I go about this (considering paying 2 registrations and all that). I am about to file tonight, and I have all my mileage info ready to go for each vehicle, I just dont know if there is a way to enter information for 2 vehicles in Turbo Tax?
> 
> Thanks TaxPro!


Shouldn't be a problem. You can enter both vehicles. If you sold the 1st vehicle you'll need to know the basis (cost) of that vehicle and what you sold it for. You might have depreciation recapture and end up with a gain or loss on the first vehicle if you sold it. You might need mileage records from years passed for the 1st car. TT should walk you through it.


----------



## ismoklikachimny

UberTaxPro said:


> Shouldn't be a problem. You can enter both vehicles. If you sold the 1st vehicle you'll need to know the basis (cost) of that vehicle and what you sold it for. You might have depreciation recapture and end up with a gain or loss on the first vehicle if you sold it. You might need mileage records from years passed for the 1st car. TT should walk you through it.


Very, very helpful. I have been fretting over this since this is my first time having to file with Uber income. So if I traded in the vehicle ($4500) and used it as a down payment toward the vehicle I purchased, would that be considered the amount I sold it for? Since this isn't my full time gig, I am assuming depreciation may only be partial since my vehicle use was 60%uber/40% personal.

Thanks again, I promise that was it! (For now)


----------



## UberTaxPro

ismoklikachimny said:


> Very, very helpful. I have been fretting over this since this is my first time having to file with Uber income. So if I traded in the vehicle ($4500) and used it as a down payment toward the vehicle I purchased, would that be considered the amount I sold it for? Since this isn't my full time gig, I am assuming depreciation may only be partial since my vehicle use was 60%uber/40% personal.
> 
> Thanks again, I promise that was it! (For now)


It depends on the basis(cost) of your 1st car. Check out IRS Pub 544 https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p544.pdf
Trade ins are usually like kind exchanges which I think you'll qualify for. page 11 discusses like kind exchanges. TT will walk you through it if you qualify. Might be called 1031 exchange or like kind exchange. Just have all your info ready including the original cost of your first car.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

ismoklikachimny said:


> Very, very helpful. I have been fretting over this since this is my first time having to file with Uber income. So if I traded in the vehicle ($4500) and used it as a down payment toward the vehicle I purchased, would that be considered the amount I sold it for? Since this isn't my full time gig, I am assuming depreciation may only be partial since my vehicle use was 60%uber/40% personal.
> 
> Thanks again, I promise that was it! (For now)


I had similar situations when I changed cars three times in the 13 years I've been driving as an IC. TT asks the in/out service dates and whether you traded the old in on the new, as I recall. I don't think it made any difference in my case, but I was going with the standard mileage rate rather than actual costs of operation.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Older Chauffeur said:


> I had similar situations when I changed cars three times in the 13 years I've been driving as an IC. TT asks the in/out service dates and whether you traded the old in on the new, as I recall. I don't think it made any difference in my case, but I was going with the standard mileage rate rather than actual costs of operation.


Just curious...if you drive other people's cars what miles do you deduct? The mileage to the customer's car and back?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberTaxPro said:


> Just curious...if you drive other people's cars what miles do you deduct? The mileage to the customer's car and back?


Yes. My tax guy has me keep track of mileage to my clients' homes or offices. I know some people feel that these would be commute miles, but he is of the opinion that driving between my home based "office" and the client locations is business related. So far, so good. Of course, it doesn't come close to being enough to offset income the way Uber miles do.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Older Chauffeur said:


> Yes. My tax guy has me keep track of mileage to my clients' homes or offices. I know some people feel that these would be commute miles, but he is of the opinion that driving between my home based "office" and the client locations is business related. So far, so good. Of course, it doesn't come close to being enough to offset income the way Uber miles do.


If you were driving for Uber you'd have gone through 13 cars!


----------



## Johnbuchmiller

Yes, retain a lawyer. I knew I was going to answer that way before I even read your post, just reading the thread title. Whenever anyone has any medical issue, they should see a doctor, and whenever they have a legal question, they should retain a lawyer and Chicago IRS Lawyers are best choice. That's standard advice.


----------



## Eisentower30

If I want to set aside 35% of my payouts from Uber each week for estimated tax payments each quarter, should that be 35% of the actual money I received (Fare + Surge - Uber Fee) or 35% of the gross income before Uber takes their cut and before the Rider Fee payment and deduction?

To clarify, if needed... If my Weekly Earnings looks like this, hypothetically...

Fare: +$1,000
Surge: +$60
Uber Fee (25%): -$265
Rider Fee (payment): +$125
Rider Fee (deduction): -$125
____
Estimated Payout: $795

... what amount should I set aside for taxes (assuming I want to set aside 35%)

Thanks!


----------



## UberPissed

[795 - mileage deduction and other expenses] x .35 = estimated tax liability. 30% may be sufficient.

Assuming your fares are $25 per hour, and your travel speed is 15 mph, I would suspect your mileage is around 750, including dead miles. Your mileage deduction would be around $400, leaving you with a profit of 390, and about $135 goes to tax, leaving you with about $250 for around 40 hours of work, or $6/hr. That's pretty much on par with what I have seen on the forum.


----------



## Ubernic

Question for logging actual expenses. I am using SherpaShare, logging each expense as I go. I will most likely use mileage, but I am still adding up actual expenses to be sure that is the best. 

My question on logging actual expenses, is do I log the tax or fees as well as the price of the goods? 

A few examples are:

1.

Car accessory: $10.99
Tax: $0.88
Total: $11.87

What do I put for my actual expense on this?

2.

Gas: $27.72
Debit fee: $0.35
Total: $28.07

This one is tricky because SherpaShare asks how much per gallon, so if I put the full total here, then it will think I got $0.35 extra in gas and mess up some stats on averages etc.


----------



## UberPissed

Another reason why you should take the mileage rate. I can't imagine that actual costs are more than mileage. I would use the entire cost. 

I'm curious to see your other numbers, to see if the standard amount is actually better. Also, there are rules about when you can and can't elect to take actual expenses.


----------



## Ubernic

This is my first month. So far I am at $700 in costs. $400 of that is gas, the rest are what I would say are startup costs, cell chargers, towel, cell mount, minor cosmetic repairs, tire rotation, etc. 

I would say my goal will be a minimum of $1K per week, around $200 in gas maybe less. I drive Select only, so I do less miles, gas, and overall trips than an X driver. However my car does have premium brakes, tires, and requires premium fuel. So there is a chance if I get a repair that my actual expenses may be more.


----------



## Cdaley

I purchased a vehicle just for uber and only drive it for uber can I take the entire price of the vehicle off of my takes the first year ? Can I also do miles as well?


----------



## UberTaxPro

Cdaley said:


> I purchased a vehicle just for uber and only drive it for uber can I take the entire price of the vehicle off of my takes the first year ? Can I also do miles as well?


I purchased a vehicle just for uber and only drive it for uber can I take the entire price of the vehicle off of my takes the first year ? Maybe, check out "Section 179 deduction" 
Can I also do miles as well? If you mean the standard mileage deduction no. The section 179 deduction is basically accelerated depreciation and the SMD has depreciation built into it so you can't take both.


----------



## Fireguy50

Can you look at my question here please;
https://uberpeople.net/threads/did-workers-comp-screw-up-my-taxes.77397/

Thanks


----------



## My Limo

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Hi 
Can I issue a 1099 to uber?
would it help my filling?
I know of a black /suv company in Cali that does that. I do select.
Thanks.


----------



## UberPissed

My Limo said:


> Hi
> Can I issue a 1099 to uber?
> would it help my filling?
> I know of a black /suv company in Cali that does that. I do select.
> Thanks.


I don't know why you would want to issue a 1099 to Uber.


----------



## tennvol

I drive for Uber mostly for fun. I expect that income from Uber will be about 2% - 3% of my gross annual income. Do I need to worry about quarterly payments and all of that fun stuff, or will it work itself out at year end when I do my taxes?


----------



## MattyNoNeck

Simple question (and I apologize if this has been asked already but I'm on my out to work and wanted to get it in before I forgot):

Is it better to use a mileage deduction or cost of gas and maintenance?


----------



## UberPissed

tennvol said:


> I drive for Uber mostly for fun. I expect that income from Uber will be about 2% - 3% of my gross annual income. Do I need to worry about quarterly payments and all of that fun stuff, or will it work itself out at year end when I do my taxes?


It depends on what your other income is, but probably won't have to worry about it. Another way to get around quarterly payments is to go to your job and tell them to take out $X more per paycheck. But be careful not to tell them why - they don't know what you do once you clock out.


----------



## UberPissed

MattyNoNeck said:


> Simple question (and I apologize if this has been asked already but I'm on my out to work and wanted to get it in before I forgot):
> 
> Is it better to use a mileage deduction or cost of gas and maintenance?


For almost everyone, you are better off getting the mileage deduction.


----------



## Chrisw

Should I be logging start mileage, end mileage daily, or for every trip I take during the day?


----------



## RJF

I don't think this has been answered already, and if so I apologize, but I've been wondering about this for a while and haven't been able to find a definitive answer anywhere.

My question is, does that deduction we can get for mileage (or the itemized deductions, if we chose to take that instead) apply to payroll taxes (Social Secy/Medicare) as well as federal income taxes? Or JUST to federal income taxes, and we still have to pay the full rate for payroll taxes? I ask because I'm trying to estimate my tax liability for the year, and I like to figure out how much money I'm actually making after taking taxes into account.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Activist1

How do you guys track your miles? Is there an app or something that can help me?


----------



## gofry

tennvol said:


> I drive for Uber mostly for fun.


???


----------



## Older Chauffeur

RJF said:


> I don't think this has been answered already, and if so I apologize, but I've been wondering about this for a while and haven't been able to find a definitive answer anywhere.
> 
> My question is, does that deduction we can get for mileage (or the itemized deductions, if we chose to take that instead) apply to payroll taxes (Social Secy/Medicare) as well as federal income taxes? Or JUST to federal income taxes, and we still have to pay the full rate for payroll taxes? I ask because I'm trying to estimate my tax liability for the year, and I like to figure out how much money I'm actually making after taking taxes into account.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


FICA (Social Security/Medicare) taxes paid on self employment income start when your net hits $400.00 annually, so the mileage deduction does affect the amount you pay. All business expenses come off your gross pay before you figure your tax liability.


----------



## FITS

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Should I pay estimate tax or should I wait to get my 1099-k than file a tax return? I just started Uber in May 2016 and will only being doing Uber part time (dont have a regular job). I plan to make at least $1,000 a month. That will be about $7,000 by the end of 2016.


----------



## LosingWithUber

Hi guys hard to admit this but I've been pretty dumb and lazy with my taxes.... While I believe I've been doing them right just doing quarterly payments after calculating it through programs like Quickbooks I received a tax refund with the exact amount that I paid in my quarterly sums. Does anyone know what I should do about this?


----------



## UberPissed

LosingWithUber said:


> Hi guys hard to admit this but I've been pretty dumb and lazy with my taxes.... While I believe I've been doing them right just doing quarterly payments after calculating it through programs like Quickbooks I received a tax refund with the exact amount that I paid in my quarterly sums. Does anyone know what I should do about this?


You should have some business income on your 1040. You should also have self employment tax on the second page. You may be getting other credits for EITC or CTC. Do you have any other metrics - filing status, income, dependents, net income, and I can tell you more.


----------



## Nomadwolf

UberPissed said:


> For almost everyone, you are better off getting the mileage deduction.


Can you switch from year to year? If I have minimal maintenance this year, I go for mileage. If I have some larger repair next year, then take the maintenance, no?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

As long as you start out using the standard rate for a car you own, you can switch, per IRS Topic 510:
*Standard Mileage Rate -* For the current standard mileage rate, refer to Publication 463, _Travel, Entertainment, Gift, and Car Expenses_, or search standard mileage rates on IRS.gov. To use the standard mileage rate, you must own or lease the car and:


You must not operate five or more cars at the same time, as in a fleet operation,
You must not have claimed a depreciation deduction for the car using any method other than straight-line,
You must not have claimed a Section 179 deduction on the car,
You must not have claimed the special depreciation allowance on the car,
You must not have claimed actual expenses after 1997 for a car you lease, and
You cannot be a rural mail carrier who received a "qualified reimbursement."

To use the standard mileage rate for a car you own, you must choose to use it in the first year the car is available for use in your business. Then, in later years, you can choose to use the standard mileage rate or actual expenses.

For a car you lease, you must use the standard mileage rate method for the entire lease period (including renewals) if you choose the standard mileage rate.


----------



## leosc

money time said:


> Hi
> Whats your recomemdation.
> I did 2700 rides on 2015 and my net is $50K. I want to take the standard 57¢
> And report driving 50,000 miles. Will this get me in trouble?


I made 50k too this year..
How was your tax return last year?


----------



## DunedinDriver

Hi UberTaxPro.....

Can you please help me. I just want to confirm the #s from my Uber Tax Summary were entered into the correct places using H&R Block's website.

My question is ---- there is a "Commission and Fee Expenses" entry. From the below, what makes up this #?

Gross Fares (Uber Fee included) 2,687.20
Tolls 3.65
Split Far .50
Safe Rides Fee 197.20
Booking Fee 292.40

There's a 1099-MISC BREAKDOWN column
Referral/Incentive 2.18

Other Potential Deductions
Uber Service Fee 671.79
On Trip Mileage 1899

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Nomadwolf

Stride has a good breakdown on this: http://blog.stridehealth.com/taxes/uber-1099


----------



## Older Chauffeur

DunedinDriver said:


> Hi UberTaxPro.....
> 
> Can you please help me. I just want to confirm the #s from my Uber Tax Summary were entered into the correct places using H&R Block's website.
> 
> My question is ---- there is a "Commission and Fee Expenses" entry. From the below, what makes up this #?
> 
> Gross Fares (Uber Fee included) 2,687.20
> Tolls 3.65
> Split Far .50
> Safe Rides Fee 197.20
> Booking Fee 292.40
> 
> There's a 1099-MISC BREAKDOWN column
> Referral/Incentive 2.18
> 
> Other Potential Deductions
> Uber Service Fee 671.79
> On Trip Mileage 1899
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


This thread wasn't started by UberTaxPro plus it's old. You might be better off sending him a private message.


----------



## DunedinDriver

DunedinDriver said:


> Hi UberTaxPro.....
> 
> Can you please help me. I just want to confirm the #s from my Uber Tax Summary were entered into the correct places using H&R Block's website.
> 
> My question is ---- there is a "Commission and Fee Expenses" entry. From the below, what makes up this #?
> 
> Gross Fares (Uber Fee included) 2,687.20
> Tolls 3.65
> Split Far .50
> Safe Rides Fee 197.20
> Booking Fee 292.40
> 
> There's a 1099-MISC BREAKDOWN column
> Referral/Incentive 2.18
> 
> Other Potential Deductions
> Uber Service Fee 671.79
> On Trip Mileage 1899
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


Oops, guess I had Uber brain fog because I didn't notice that the original post was from Jan 2016. Here's the information I was looking for. Thought I would share it.



Older Chauffeur said:


> This thread wasn't started by UberTaxPro plus it's old. You might be better off sending him a private message.





Nomadwolf said:


> Stride has a good breakdown on this: http://blog.stridehealth.com/taxes/uber-1099


Hi.....thank you so much for the link!!!! It was exactly what I was looking for, and I'm so glad I asked as it increased my tax refund by $150. I had a gut feeling something wasn't right. I shared a screenshot of the summary breakdown for others to use with my original post.

One last question, if I may.....when asked what the "Business Name" is, should that be my name?


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

how come trump doesn't have to pay taxes but we do?


----------



## UberTaxPro

DunedinDriver said:


> Oops, guess I had Uber brain fog because I didn't notice that the original post was from Jan 2016. Here's the information I was looking for. Thought I would share it.
> 
> Hi.....thank you so much for the link!!!! It was exactly what I was looking for, and I'm so glad I asked as it increased my tax refund by $150. I had a gut feeling something wasn't right. I shared a screenshot of the summary breakdown for others to use with my original post.
> 
> One last question, if I may.....when asked what the "Business Name" is, should that be my name?


Use the name on the checking account where Uber deposits the money.


----------



## OhioDriver98

I am new to this so I hope I'm posting this question correctly! 
But my 1099K is 4,000 too high. I have reviewed my income from every possible angle and the 1099K is TOTALLY WRONG.What can I do?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

OhioDriver98 said:


> I am new to this so I hope I'm posting this question correctly!
> But my 1099K is 4,000 too high. I have reviewed my income from every possible angle and the 1099K is TOTALLY WRONG.What can I do?


Have you subtracted all the fees and commission from the gross shown? You might try sending a private message to member UberTaxPro.


----------



## UberTaxPro

OhioDriver98 said:


> I am new to this so I hope I'm posting this question correctly!
> But my 1099K is 4,000 too high. I have reviewed my income from every possible angle and the 1099K is TOTALLY WRONG.What can I do?


Did you deduct all the Uber fees ?


----------



## Jurisinceptor

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


I heard that businesses that operate at a loss after 3 years are categorized as hobbies by the IRS. Any truth to this? I anticipate going into my third year at a loss for 2017. Thank you so much.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Jurisinceptor said:


> I heard that businesses that operate at a loss after 3 years are categorized as hobbies by the IRS. Any truth to this? I anticipate going into my third year at a loss for 2017. Thank you so much.


No truth to it. It might bring you into the spotlight but as long as you can prove your operating your business like a business and are making an honest attempt to make money you can go on indefinitely with with losses. There's a lot to it but basically doing things like the following help to prove your trying to make money:
1. having a business plan
2. having a bookkeeping system
3. trying different strategies
4. utilizing advisers like accountants and lawyers
5. staying up to date with all tax filings and obligations


----------



## b-rider31

For starters you are extremely generous for giving free advice to anyone. I really appreciate it as I probably wouldn't have the money to pay for such advice. 

I understand I can deduct the obvious things like gas, maintenance costs, etc. My questions come in with the car payment, the extra insurance to cover me while waiting for ride requests, and things like interior/exterior accessories for the vehicle. Is ALL of that deductible or am I naive for thinking so?

Ben
STL


----------



## LAuberX

b-rider31 said:


> For starters you are extremely generous for giving free advice to anyone. I really appreciate it as I probably wouldn't have the money to pay for such advice.
> 
> I understand I can deduct the obvious things like gas, maintenance costs, etc. My questions come in with the car payment, the extra insurance to cover me while waiting for ride requests, and things like interior/exterior accessories for the vehicle. Is ALL of that deductible or am I naive for thinking so?
> 
> Ben
> STL


did you read this entire thread? ALL the answers are here.


----------



## b-rider31

I'm an idiot. Thanks for showing me how dumb so quick  cheers


----------



## UberTaxPro

b-rider31 said:


> For starters you are extremely generous for giving free advice to anyone. I really appreciate it as I probably wouldn't have the money to pay for such advice.
> 
> I understand I can deduct the obvious things like gas, maintenance costs, etc. My questions come in with the car payment, the extra insurance to cover me while waiting for ride requests, and things like interior/exterior accessories for the vehicle. Is ALL of that deductible or am I naive for thinking so?
> 
> Ben
> STL


In addition to all the advice on here you can check out this https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf starting on page 16 it explains the two options available to you. Standard Mileage Rate or Actual Expenses. I suggest you seriously consider using the mileage method as it is much easier as far as record keeping is concerned and provides a larger deduction for most Uber drivers in my opinion.


----------



## El Gato

UberTaxPro said:


> In addition to all the advice on here you can check out this https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf starting on page 16 it explains the two options available to you. Standard Mileage Rate or Actual Expenses. I suggest you seriously consider using the mileage method as it is much easier as far as record keeping is concerned and provides a larger deduction for most Uber drivers in my opinion.


I actually did the math on the actual expenses...it was a pain,,,but yeh totally not worth it. Standard deduction all the way by a long shot. Keep in mind I don't drive full time. Apx. $7,300 in gross fares and 8,000 business miles.


----------



## Car Sick

Been lurking for a while, finally signed up. Just did a search on dash cams being deductible...found the answer here. Then did a search on shop vacs, didn't find an answer so I thought I'd ask.

Dumb question 1 which will spring off into 2 more questions: Does the standard mileage deduction only apply to gas/operating expenses? 

If so, can a dash cam still be claimed? How about a shop vac since it's used for regular cleanings?

I'm sure I'll be wasting many more hours on this site learning a thing or two.
Thanks!


----------



## Bob Reynolds

You can write of the dash cam and the shop vac.

Anything you spend for your business is deductible.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Car Sick said:


> Been lurking for a while, finally signed up. Just did a search on dash cams being deductible...found the answer here. Then did a search on shop vacs, didn't find an answer so I thought I'd ask.
> 
> Dumb question 1 which will spring off into 2 more questions: Does the standard mileage deduction only apply to gas/operating expenses?
> 
> If so, can a dash cam still be claimed? How about a shop vac since it's used for regular cleanings?
> 
> I'm sure I'll be wasting many more hours on this site learning a thing or two.
> Thanks!


The SMR (standard mileage rate) includes all things pertaining to the vehicle itself like maintenance, gas, insurance, depreciation, registration etc...
Things like dash cam, treats for pax, and phone expenses do not pertain to the vehicle itself and are not included in the SMR but still may be deductible as business expenses.
This might be helpful: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf


----------



## DriveDog

I am hoping I posted this in the right place. If I did not please gently redirect me... 

My two tax questions…


I have only been driving for a week, so need to now set up tax accounting going forward...



Question One...

For Tax (and mileage tracking app) purposes. Can I combine both Uber and Lyft into one self-employment Schedule C and/or Schedule SE or do I have to split them out into a schedule C and Schedule SE for each, one for Uber, one for Lyft? Can I treat both Uber and Lyft as one company for tax purposes? The reason I ask is, I drive with both Uber and Lyft apps online. If I get a ride request ping from one, I turn the other off immediately and pick up my ride. When I am finished with that ride I ensure both Uber and Lyft apps are now online waiting for the next rider request ping.

A mileage app such as Everlance Premium I understand will record business miles vs personal miles. I am considering planning to spend no more than 15 minutes at end of each day sorting personal vs business miles using an app such as Everlance, however I doubt I would remember easily which trip is Uber or Lyft? Can I combine them into one self employment company for tax purposes?, or do I have to split out Uber and Lyft separately for tax purposes. I plan to keep things simple as a sole proprietor. At this point not planning to LLC etc... but open to suggestions.

Or…

Question Two…

Does Uber and Lyft provide a report at the end of each tax year, that would be IRS complainant, that would show at least the miles driven the previous tax year by me during the time the rider was riding in my vehicle from time of pickup to time of dropoff. If Uber and Lyft provide a year end summary (that is IRS compliant for mileage tracking) or I can printout out one from my Uber or Lyft account online, I might not need to track my mileage...I would simply use the mileage on the year end Uber and Lyft mileage reports. I know the report would not show from the time I accept a ride request ping until I pick the ride up so I would lose some of my tax deductible mileage but it might be worth it to me because it would save me time not having to account for my mileage with a mileage tracking app. I might be willing to trade my time for less tax deductions.


----------



## dingirl88

In the US, at what income level is it worth setting up an LLC for payments? Thank you


----------



## Older Chauffeur

DriveDog said:


> I am hoping I posted this in the right place. If I did not please gently redirect me...
> 
> My two tax questions&#8230;
> 
> I have only been driving for a week, so need to now set up tax accounting going forward...
> 
> Question One...
> 
> For Tax (and mileage tracking app) purposes. Can I combine both Uber and Lyft into one self-employment Schedule C and/or Schedule SE or do I have to split them out into a schedule C and Schedule SE for each, one for Uber, one for Lyft? Can I treat both Uber and Lyft as one company for tax purposes? The reason I ask is, I drive with both Uber and Lyft apps online. If I get a ride request ping from one, I turn the other off immediately and pick up my ride. When I am finished with that ride I ensure both Uber and Lyft apps are now online waiting for the next rider request ping.
> 
> A mileage app such as Everlance Premium I understand will record business miles vs personal miles. I am considering planning to spend no more than 15 minutes at end of each day sorting personal vs business miles using an app such as Everlance, however I doubt I would remember easily which trip is Uber or Lyft? Can I combine them into one self employment company for tax purposes?, or do I have to split out Uber and Lyft separately for tax purposes. I plan to keep things simple as a sole proprietor. At this point not planning to LLC etc... but open to suggestions.
> 
> Or&#8230;
> 
> Question Two&#8230;
> 
> Does Uber and Lyft provide a report at the end of each tax year, that would be IRS complainant, that would show at least the miles driven the previous tax year by me during the time the rider was riding in my vehicle from time of pickup to time of dropoff. If Uber and Lyft provide a year end summary (that is IRS compliant for mileage tracking) or I can printout out one from my Uber or Lyft account online, I might not need to track my mileage...I would simply use the mileage on the year end Uber and Lyft mileage reports. I know the report would not show from the time I accept a ride request ping until I pick the ride up so I would lose some of my tax deductible mileage but it might be worth it to me because it would save me time not having to account for my mileage with a mileage tracking app. I might be willing to trade my time for less tax deductions.


You can list income and expenses for both companies on one Schedule C. If you keep a contemporaneous mileage log, as required by the IRS, it won't take anywhere close to 15 minutes out of your day. For each shift you drive, list your starting and ending odometer readings, the date and business purpose (rideshare.) You won't miss any deductible miles that way, and you will have a permanent record should you face an audit.

Disclosure: I am not a tax professional. However, I've been doing contract driving for over 15 years and filing Schedule C and Schedule SE, with the help of a CPA during those years. He is the one who got me started keeping a written mileage log.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

dingirl88 said:


> In the US, at what income level is it worth setting up an LLC for payments? Thank you


With uber/lyft..

How much you make is less relevent than what city you live in, as far as tax concerns go.

Yeah that's right...

$1000 revenue in Seattle washington will result in a higher federal tax bill than $40,000 in revenue In Orlando Florida.
(not state, not local, Just the federal income tax)

Sound crazy?

It's true...

In most cities you are losing money on paper for every $ you bring in.

In the better paying cities large amounts of your income get knocked out from writing off expenses.

The overwhelming majority of Uber drivers lose money on paper, there's no need to set up an LLC for payments in most cities.

In Orlando $40,000 a year in income will result in reducing your tax bill from any other sources. As you will more than likely have a loss on paper.

In a top market like Minneapolis... large amounts of your income will get scratched out.

$40,000 in revenue could turn into 20,000 easily. Which is very near the bottom rung of the income ladder.

Unless you are in Seattle, MSP, or St Louis (or similar paying market) there is zero need for an LLC. IF there is even a need in the top markets.

Additionally...
Commercial auto insurance (like what uber provides to cover you) will virtually completely cover you from virtually any foreseeable liability.


----------



## 404NofFound

We have to do taxes four times a year? I have another job that takes out taxes. Will this get mixed into my rideshare taxes? I don't do taxes until Uber sends me a form? I'm afraid to do taxes. Because of repair bills being so high I might get audited.


----------



## UberTaxPro

404NofFound said:


> We have to do taxes four times a year? I have another job that takes out taxes. Will this get mixed into my rideshare taxes? I don't do taxes until Uber sends me a form? I'm afraid to do taxes. Because of repair bills being so high I might get audited.


As a ride-share driver you're operating your own business. As a business owner you're responsible for meeting your tax obligations. You should be more afraid of not doing your taxes! How often you pay taxes depends on how much money you're making. The first thing you need to do is set up some sort of bookkeeping system for your business. It doesn't have to be fancy or cost a lot of money but it will make everything easier and perhaps take away the fear of doing taxes because you'll at least know what is going on. Quickbooks online self employed offers a great solution for $10 a month.


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## 404NofFound

UberTaxPro said:


> As a ride-share driver you're operating your own business. As a business owner you're responsible for meeting your tax obligations. You should be more afraid of not doing your taxes! How often you pay taxes depends on how much money you're making. The first thing you need to do is set up some sort of bookkeeping system for your business. It doesn't have to be fancy or cost a lot of money but it will make everything easier and perhaps take away the fear of doing taxes because you'll at least know what is going on. Quickbooks online self employed offers a great solution for $10 a month.


I have a program to track expences, but sometimes I forget to turn on the mileage tracker or I get confused about which travel is personal and which is business. I will be more disciplined in the future. I will leave mileage tracking on and address it every time I do a trip. How much do you need to gross to have to pay taxes? Do I include income from my normal job, or is that a separate thing? Normally I file jointly once a year with the other job. The other job takes out taxes.


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## UberTaxPro

404NofFound said:


> I have a program to track expences, but sometimes I forget to turn on the mileage tracker or I get confused about which travel is personal and which is business. I will be more disciplined in the future. I will leave mileage tracking on and address it every time I do a trip. How much do you need to gross to have to pay taxes? Do I include income from my normal job, or is that a separate thing? Normally I file jointly once a year with the other job. The other job takes out taxes.


For tax purposes all your income will be included together and your ride-share net income is subject to the same tax rates as your W2 job. You'll only pay taxes on your *net *income from the ride-share business. Most ride-share clients that I have pay little to 0 taxes with the mileage deduction being about 95% of their total deductions. If your net income starts growing above $0 you'll have to address any tax issues then. The first tax move you might make if you're netting a positive $ would be to increase your withholding at your w2 job. Addressing your mileage log every trip might be a bit of overkill.... at least make sure you mark business miles for the beginning and end of your shift daily.
Also, if your net income is a negative # you might be able to reduce the taxes you pay at your W2 job. The mileage log will be your BFF at tax time!


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## 404NofFound

Am I supposed to wait until Uber sends something to me?


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## UberTaxPro

404NofFound said:


> Am I supposed to wait until Uber sends something to me?


No, it's your business not uber's!


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## 404NofFound

UberTaxPro said:


> No, it's your business not uber's!


I heard they send you a 1099.


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## UberTaxPro

1. Set up your bookkeeping 
2. Monitor your income and expenses each quarter 
3. Pay taxes only if you owe each quarter 
The only way to tell if you need pay taxes is to monitor your expenses and income each quarter. Quickbooks self employed makes it easy especially if you don't like bookkeeping chores



404NofFound said:


> I heard they send you a 1099.


The 1099 is the total of everything they've paid you. You won't get it till January 2019 sometime. Taxes are due as you earn the money. If you owe and wait till 2019 to pay you'll risk owing late fees and penalties.


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## Sfdriver415

Hey guys I just started rideshare 3 months ago. I've been saving all my gas receipts and just found out now about the mile logs. Any suggestions or should I just continue saving them since it's already been 3 months? Thanks!


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## UberTaxPro

Sfdriver415 said:


> Hey guys I just started rideshare 3 months ago. I've been saving all my gas receipts anst found out now about the mile logs. Any suggestions or should I just continue saving them since it's already been 3 months? Thanks!


The most important thing is to get your mileage log going! You might still be able to re-construct your log for the first three months based on those gas receipts and other records you might have. Saving the gas receipts isn't necessary if you're using the SMR but it still a good idea to save all business receipts. You'll need the 1st 3 months gas receipts to substantiate the re-constructed mileage log that your working on now!


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## Sfdriver415

So the best way to keep track of my miles is to write down beginning and end of day down on pen and paper?


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## Older Chauffeur

Sfdriver415 said:


> So the best way to keep track of my miles is to write down beginning and end of day down on pen and paper?


Correct. Use your actual odometer readings, record the date and business purpose (ride share.) I use a Day Planner for my log.


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## 404NofFound

Sfdriver415 said:


> So the best way to keep track of my miles is to write down beginning and end of day down on pen and paper?


I haven't figured out taxes yet but I do know that rideshare miles and personal miles are tracked separately.


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## UberTaxPro

404NofFound said:


> I haven't figured out taxes yet but I do know that rideshare miles and personal miles are tracked separately.


At the end of the year you'll need total miles driven, total personal miles and total business miles for tax purposes.


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## butchr

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


The IRS is auditing my 2015 tax return. I keep pretty good records and have all my mileage logs. My problem is my mileage logs are total miles for each day. I didn't write down the starting mileage and ending mileage for each day driving for uber. Am I screwed?


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## UberTaxPro

butchr said:


> The IRS is auditing my 2015 tax return. I keep pretty good records and have all my mileage logs. My problem is my mileage logs are total miles for each day. I didn't write down the starting mileage and ending mileage for each day driving for uber. Am I screwed?


Have they asked to see your mileage log? Remember that you you have the right to be represented at any time in the process by an EA, CPA or Attorney. Is it a correspondence or in person audit?


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## Car Sick

After digging around to figure out how much to hold back each week for taxes, this is what I found to determine the withholding amount each week for those doing standard mileage deduction - just checking if it seems legit to others.
Note, this is just a way to get an weekly estimate, not concrete. Just an amount to hold back so you don't get caught with your pants down at tax time.

For the tax rate: 22% (tax percentage) + 7.65% (fica) = 29.65% Tax Rate (this is a constant)
Miles Driven x .545 (mileage credit) = Credit Amount
Total Weekly Deposit - Credit Amount = Taxable Income
Taxable Income x 29.65% Tax Rate = Tax Withhold Amount
Total Weekly Deposit - Tax Withhold Amount = Take Home

So using last weeks numbers for me as an example:
Last Weeks Deposit: 147.28 (115.28 from Uber + 32.00 in tips)
Miles Driven: 163 miles

163 Miles Driven x .545 = 88.84 Credit Amount
147.28 Deposit - 88.84 Credit amount = 58.44 Taxable Income
58.44 Taxable Income x 29.65% Tax Rate = 17.33 Tax Withhold Amount
147.28 Deposit - 17.33 Tax Withhold Amount = 129.95 Take Home

Seem legit?


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## UberTaxPro

Car Sick said:


> After digging around to figure out how much to hold back each week for taxes, this is what I found to determine the withholding amount each week for those doing standard mileage deduction - just checking if it seems legit to others.
> Note, this is just a way to get an weekly estimate, not concrete. Just an amount to hold back so you don't get caught with your pants down at tax time.
> 
> For the tax rate: 22% (tax percentage) + 7.65% (fica) = 29.65% Tax Rate (this is a constant)
> Miles Driven x .545 (mileage credit) = Credit Amount
> Total Weekly Deposit - Credit Amount = Taxable Income
> Taxable Income x 29.65% Tax Rate = Tax Withhold Amount
> Total Weekly Deposit - Tax Withhold Amount = Take Home
> 
> So using last weeks numbers for me as an example:
> Last Weeks Deposit: 147.28 (115.28 from Uber + 32.00 in tips)
> Miles Driven: 163 miles
> 
> 163 Miles Driven x .545 = 88.84 Credit Amount
> 147.28 Deposit - 88.84 Credit amount = 58.44 Taxable Income
> 58.44 Taxable Income x 29.65% Tax Rate = 17.33 Tax Withhold Amount
> 147.28 Deposit - 17.33 Tax Withhold Amount = 129.95 Take Home
> 
> Seem legit?


Fica tax is 15.3%. You have to pay both parts employer and employee when your self employed. You will get a deduction on your 1040 for the employer half paid.


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## Car Sick

UberTaxPro said:


> Fica tax is 15.3%. You have to pay both parts employer and employee when your self employed. You will get a deduction on your 1040 for the employer half paid.


Is the deduction for that half of the 15.3% the full 7.65%? If so wouldn't you just use 7.65% or is that dependent on how much you make overall on total income?
Thanks for the quick response - just wanting to avoid any costly surprises.


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## UberTaxPro

Car Sick said:


> Is the deduction for that half of the 15.3% the full 7.65%? If so wouldn't you just use 7.65% or is that dependent on how much you make overall on total income?
> Thanks for the quick response - just wanting to avoid any costly surprises.


When figuring self-employment tax you owe you'll get to reduce self-employment income by half of the self-employment tax before applying the tax rate. If your net self-employment income is $50,000, that's the amount you report as taxable for income tax purposes on Form 1040. But when figuring your self-employment tax on Schedule SE, Computation of Social Security Self-Employment Tax, the taxable amount is $46,175.

You can claim 50% of what you pay in self-employment tax as an income tax deduction. For example, a $2,000 self-employment tax payment reduces taxable income by $1000. In the 25 percent tax bracket, that saves you $250 in income taxes. This deduction is an adjustment to income claimed on Form 1040, and is available whether or not you itemize deductions.


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## UberTaxPro

this thread was started in 2016 and is still running! I wonder what the longest running thread on uberpeople.net is?


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## butchr

UberTaxPro said:


> Have they asked to see your mileage log? Remember that you you have the right to be represented at any time in the process by an EA, CPA or Attorney. Is it a correspondence or in person audit?


This audit has been done through the mail. "audit by mail". I sent them my mile log with total miles only. They disallowed that log. I applied for an extension to gather more records. Should I make another log with start/finish daily miles? It would be approximate daily miles, but the total annual miles would be accurate. I have repair receipts throughout the year, January through December, to confirm miles driven in 2015. IRS is billing me over 10K for this audit.


----------



## UberTaxPro

butchr said:


> This audit has been done through the mail. "audit by mail". I sent them my mile log with total miles only. They disallowed that log. I applied for an extension to gather more records. Should I make another log with start/finish daily miles? It would be approximate daily miles, but the total annual miles would be accurate. I have repair receipts throughout the year, January through December, to confirm miles driven in 2015. IRS is billing me over 10K for this audit.


There are ways to re-construct records for the IRS but it's not easy, fun or guaranteed. With 10k at stake it might be worth it for you to hire a pro to represent you in this audit going forward. Did you prepare the return yourself or did you use a paid preparer?
You'll need to prepare a re-constructed log using any and all documents you have that give an odometer reading or an indication of where you where. Use the repair receipts, motor vehicle documents, uber online records and anything else you can think of to verify your log. Label the log as "re-constructed". Don't try to sell it as the original log. Document your reason for not having the original log and argue that the income you earned must have expenses associated with it. Use any industry standard statistics that are helpful. They might reject your log 100%, or accept it in whole or partially. By law they really don't have to accept anything less than a contemporaneously kept log, but if they're reasonable and they believe you're reasonable they may allow you at least some of your mileage deduction.


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## butchr

UberTaxPro said:


> There are ways to re-construct records for the IRS but it's not easy, fun or guaranteed. With 10k at stake it might be worth it for you to hire a pro to represent you in this audit going forward. Did you prepare the return yourself or did you use a paid preparer?
> You'll need to prepare a re-constructed log using any and all documents you have that give an odometer reading or an indication of where you where. Use the repair receipts, motor vehicle documents, uber online records and anything else you can think of to verify your log. Label the log as "re-constructed". Don't try to sell it as the original log. Document your reason for not having the original log and argue that the income you earned must have expenses associated with it. Use any industry standard statistics that are helpful. They might reject your log 100%, or accept it in whole or partially. By law they really don't have to accept anything less than a contemporaneously kept log, but if they're reasonable and they believe you're reasonable they may allow you at least some of your mileage deduction.


Thanks for your help and input. I used a tax accountant when I filed but I haven't been in touch with him. Not sure if he wants to touch this.


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## Older Chauffeur

butchr , I'm sorry you're having to go through an audit and the problems with the mileage log recreation. At the same time, I wish your description of your situation could be placed permanently on these boards so that every member who thinks drivers won't get audited or that mileage logs are unnecessary would see it. I think there's a way for the mods to do this, I'm just not sure what it's called or how to request it.
Good luck to you.


----------



## UberTaxPro

butchr said:


> Thanks for your help and input. I used a tax accountant when I filed but I haven't been in touch with him. Not sure if he wants to touch this.


If you're going to bring in help I would suggest you seek out an Enrolled Agent to consult with. As this is a mail audit and EA's are licensed nationwide by the Dept. of the Treasury, you can have your choice of the aprox. 50,000 EA's across the country. We can help you in different ways.
1. Full Representation - we can handle the audit 100% for you, you'll sign a power of attorney and we'll handle all communications with the IRS.
2. Consulting - You handle the communications with the IRS utilizing our advice.

You've got a choice of three different professionals that are authorized to represent you, Enrolled Agents, CPA's and Attorneys. Of the three EA's are the only group that specializes 100% on the tax code.


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## 404NofFound

UberPissed said:


> Well that question implies that you want to use a number that will let you fly under the radar - which is criminal tax evasion.
> 
> The IRS uses a DIF score to determine when there is an audit. The algorithm is not public.
> 
> That said, claim what you can claim, and have the proof. I think you may have included deductions that are not deductible if you have that much in expenses (e.g., meals).
> 
> If you want - you can post your numbers, and I can comment on it.


Meals are not deductible?


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## 404NofFound

If I turn on my app and drive 50 miles to a location, but gave 0 rides can I write off those miles? I've been using a millage app and have been listing all of my miles during that "shift" as rideshare. Even deadhead miles. Was that a mistake?


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## Skinny1

butchr said:


> The IRS is auditing my 2015 tax return. I keep pretty good records and have all my mileage logs. My problem is my mileage logs are total miles for each day. I didn't write down the starting mileage and ending mileage for each day driving for uber. Am I screwed?


Just curious did you pay income tax on your Uber earnings or were you one who basically zeroed out your Uber income due to miles driven?

I have start stop for each day I drive going back to 2015.... but no more detail than that.

Good luck


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## UberTaxPro

Skinny1 said:


> Just curious did you pay income tax on your Uber earnings or were you one who basically zeroed out your Uber income due to miles driven?
> 
> I have start stop for each day I drive going back to 2015.... but no more detail than that.
> 
> Good luck


Get a mileage app....so easy


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## butchr

Skinny1 said:


> Just curious did you pay income tax on your Uber earnings or were you one who basically zeroed out your Uber income due to miles driven?
> 
> I have start stop for each day I drive going back to 2015.... but no more detail than that.
> 
> Good luck


I used my miles driven as a mileage deduction. I did not pay any tax on my uber miles due to this write off.


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## Skinny1

butchr said:


> I used my miles driven as a mileage deduction. I did not pay any tax on my uber miles due to this write off.


You mean you showed 0 income due to
Mileage.... hence the audit. I'm sure they are doing these all across the board for Uber drivers. $0 income with $20k in expenses.


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## UberTaxPro

butchr said:


> I used my miles driven as a mileage deduction. I did not pay any tax on my uber miles due to this write off.





Skinny1 said:


> You mean you showed 0 income due to
> Mileage.... hence the audit. I'm sure they are doing these all across the board for Uber drivers. $0 income with $20k in expenses.


The IRS is all about efficiency these days. They have to be because of the limited staff. A correspondence audit asking for a mileage log costs the IRS hardly anything, so it's only upside for Uncle Sam. Seems to me there are more CP2000 notices being sent out, all by automation, very low expense for the IRS.


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## dryverjohn

Here is my question, I bought a used car with 16k miles in June 2018, already at 30k miles as of August 1st. All miles are delivery miles, that is what I bought this one for, rides and food delivery. If my math is right that is 14k and a write off of $7630. The car was 11k, so can I write off mileage beyond the value of the car? Is there a recapture if I ever sell the car in the future? It's a Prius, so I think I have a few more miles left before I need to worry about selling it. At this rate, I don't think I will have any taxable income, can I use the loss against other self employment income? I have a corporation for my other business and used my TIN, not my social for my w-9.
TIA


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## here2der

How are you supposed to show a mileage log, if the IRS asks for it? Can/is it supposed to be a super-detailed written log on notebook or printed out on printer paper that just says each date and total miles driven for business, or do we have to actually index the details of every single fare in a day, including the distance driven to pick up the passengers and destination-filter driving home at the end of a day, when we're about to pack it in?

Also, how detailed does our record of tolls for toll-roads have to be? Thx.


----------



## UberTaxPro

here2der said:


> How are you supposed to show a mileage log, if the IRS asks for it? Can/is it supposed to be a super-detailed written log on notebook or printed out on printer paper that just says each date and total miles driven for business, or do we have to actually index the details of every single fare in a day, including the distance driven to pick up the passengers and destination-filter driving home at the end of a day, when we're about to pack it in?.
> Also, how detailed does our record of tolls for toll-roads have to be? Thx.


Mileage log can be kept by hand or digital, your choice. Either way, it has to be kept contemporaneously. You need beginning and ending mileage for the year on your vehicle. Beginning and ending mileage for each shift you work and the business purpose of the mileage your deducting. All "ordinary and necessary business" miles are deductible. A mileage app seems to be the easiest way to track your miles to me. If you ever need to send it to the IRS for a correspondence audit you just print it out and fax or mail it to them.



dryverjohn said:


> Here is my question, I bought a used car with 16k miles in June 2018, already at 30k miles as of August 1st. All miles are delivery miles, that is what I bought this one for, rides and food delivery. If my math is right that is 14k and a write off of $7630. The car was 11k, so can I write off mileage beyond the value of the car? Is there a recapture if I ever sell the car in the future? It's a Prius, so I think I have a few more miles left before I need to worry about selling it. At this rate, I don't think I will have any taxable income, can I use the loss against other self employment income? I have a corporation for my other business and used my TIN, not my social for my w-9.
> TIA


Does your corporation own the car? If yes then..... Yes, you can write of mileage beyond the value of the car. Yes there is a recapture if you sell the car(I think its about .23 cents a mile).

Alternatively, if you own the car, the S-Corp could reimburse you and deduct the reimbursement. If done at the Government mileage rate for only business miles, it wouldn't be shown on your return. If reimbursed under some other method, you would report the expenses reduced by the reimbursement. There would need to be an accountable plan agreement between you and corp for this to work.

One thing that you can't do is let the Corp. claim the mileage, if the Corp doesn't own the car.

In the past you could deduct the mileage or percentage of actual expenses on your own return as a employee business expense the same as any other employee. However, from 2018 to 2025 employee business deductions have been removed from the tax code.

Is your corp a C corp or Sub S? Just to make sure I understand... your're running the rideshare income through your corp right?


----------



## dryverjohn

Thanks, yes running rideshare business through my S corp. I had a van that we took a section 179 deduction the previous year that was sold this year. That van was in the corp name. I have not put this car in the corp name yet, it's personally owned. Thanks for the explanations.


----------



## David Propst

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


i am fairly new to uber and just looking for some help. when i do file does the mileage deduction come off of your gross earning which i am showing includes all uber fees and taxes or does it come off of my net pay out? also uber is a part time job for me and have a full time job. what can i expect to pay in taxes if my net pay out for the year is 10,000 with uber and my full time job is 30000? i am single and have no kids. an y feedback would be appreciated.


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## Leonard818

Hi there,

Back in 2016 I only received $26500 from uber in my bank account. This number also verified by Uber partner dashboard pay statements, same exact amount. 

My 1099k total 27k. Not same but close enough,

My 1099 misc is 9k which I never received. 

When filing 2016 tax for some reason 1099 misc not included the return. Last week received letter from irs that says My income reported 9k less! I have to pay $2500 for 9k income difference until aug 22nd. Can you help me?


----------



## UberTaxPro

Leonard818 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Back in 2016 I only received $26500 from uber in my bank account. This number also verified by Uber partner dashboard pay statements, same exact amount.
> 
> My 1099k total 27k. Not same but close enough,mnt
> 
> My 1099 misc is 9k which I never received.
> 
> When filing 2016 tax for some reason 1099 misc not included the return. Last week received letter from irs that says My income reported 9k less! I have to pay $2500 for 9k income difference until aug 22nd. Can you help me?


I would need more details about your situation but from what you stated you've got 2 options:
1. File an amended return for 2016 including the 9K income with deductions. The problem with this option is that you might not have many deductions for the 1099misc as it is not driving income. However, if you had any deductions in 2016 that you didn't use, this might be a viable option. 
2. Get on a payment plan with the IRS to pay off the $2500 if you don't have the money to pay them. If you only owe $2500 your payment plan will be granted almost automatically as long as your current with all your other federal taxes and have filed all returns that are due.

I'm assuming that you did receive the 9K income. It's not entirely clear in your post if you actually got the 9K paid to you.


----------



## Leonard818

I only received $26500 according to my bank statements and uber pay statements. 9k not paid to me. 

In another topic, you were saying that whatever riders pay driver receives in 1099’s. 
I think only detucted mileage and phone expense. My tax prep wasnt aware of uber service fee was tax detuctible. Its $5206 in year end summary.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Leonard818 said:


> I only received $26500 according to my bank statements and uber pay statements. 9k not paid to me.
> 
> In another topic, you were saying that whatever riders pay driver receives in 1099's.
> I think only detucted mileage and phone expense. My tax prep wasnt aware of uber service fee was tax detuctible. Its $5206 in year end summary.


Go to your online account and see what 1099's are there for 2016


----------



## Leonard818

UberTaxPro said:


> Go to your online account and see what 1099's are there for 2016


1099k $27000
1099misc $9000


----------



## UberTaxPro

Leonard818 said:


> 1099k $27000
> 1099misc $9000


The 1099misc are for non-driving income, mostly referrals I believe. Did you have any income for signing up new drivers in 2016?

You need to respond to the letter. If you'd like to post the letter here (please darken out any personal info social sec #'s etc...) I'll check it out and help you respond. Otherwise, read it very carefully and follow any instructions for what to do if you disagree. Pay particular attention to the deadlines, you need to respond before any deadlines expire. Gather up your records showing only the $26500 received, you may want to send that along with your response.

It sounds like Uber sent you and the irs an erroneous 1099misc or you lost 9K somewhere! If you have $5206 in unused deductions for 2016 you probably should amend the return. You'll have the IRS owing you money after you straighten all this out!


----------



## JonesJ97

I worked a job that withdrew taxes for the first six months of this year. Then I began ubering weekends in June, and have earned maybe $2500. 
Am I required to pay quarterly taxes, and how would I know?
If I did make enough to pay quarterlies would it only be for the job that was untaxed(Uber)?

I plan on working full time soon, increasing my earnings:
If I were to make a mistake would I face legal penalty or would the IRS just bill me for the amount I owe or credit me back an overpayment?


----------



## JonesJ97

Also...can I deduct the gas I pay for on a vehicle gifted to me? That is, the car is under a family members name (not mine), but I do pay for the gas I use to transport. Is that deductible?


----------



## UberTaxPro

JonesJ97 said:


> Also...can I deduct the gas I pay for on a vehicle gifted to me? That is, the car is under a family members name (not mine), but I do pay for the gas I use to transport. Is that deductible?


You can only deduct vehicle expenses for a vehicle titled in *your* name or your *wife's* name.



JonesJ97 said:


> I worked a job that withdrew taxes for the first six months of this year. Then I began ubering weekends in June, and have earned maybe $2500.
> Am I required to pay quarterly taxes, and how would I know?
> If I did make enough to pay quarterlies would it only be for the job that was untaxed(Uber)?
> 
> I plan on working full time soon, increasing my earnings:
> If I were to make a mistake would I face legal penalty or would the IRS just bill me for the amount I owe or credit me back an overpayment?


Your ride-share activities are a business in the eyes of the taxing authorities, not a job. Businesses determine taxes owed by having a bookkeeping system. Check out quickbooks self-employed for a cost efficient bookkeeping system for your business. The most important record you can keep for ride-sharing is your mileage log. With these things in place you'll be able to determine if you owe quarterly taxes or not on your business *net* income.

What kind of "mistake" are you asking about? If you underpay your taxes during the year you can square up when your return is due in April but you'll pay penalties and interest when you do. The US tax system is "pay as you go" meaning you're expected to pay your taxes as you earn the money.


----------



## AuxCordBoston

UberTaxPro said:


> There are ways to re-construct records for the IRS but it's not easy, fun or guaranteed. With 10k at stake it might be worth it for you to hire a pro to represent you in this audit going forward. Did you prepare the return yourself or did you use a paid preparer?
> You'll need to prepare a re-constructed log using any and all documents you have that give an odometer reading or an indication of where you where. Use the repair receipts, motor vehicle documents, uber online records and anything else you can think of to verify your log. Label the log as "re-constructed". Don't try to sell it as the original log. Document your reason for not having the original log and argue that the income you earned must have expenses associated with it. Use any industry standard statistics that are helpful. They might reject your log 100%, or accept it in whole or partially. By law they really don't have to accept anything less than a contemporaneously kept log, but if they're reasonable and they believe you're reasonable they may allow you at least some of your mileage deduction.


Why do you think you need to Label the log as "re-constructed?" That would lead to problems. Just mail the log to the IRS.



butchr said:


> This audit has been done through the mail. "audit by mail". I sent them my mile log with total miles only. They disallowed that log. I applied for an extension to gather more records. Should I make another log with start/finish daily miles? It would be approximate daily miles, but the total annual miles would be accurate. I have repair receipts throughout the year, January through December, to confirm miles driven in 2015. IRS is billing me over 10K for this audit.


You are the first person on this forum that had the IRS audit their Uber activities. Please keep us posted as to the outcome.



butchr said:


> This audit has been done through the mail. "audit by mail". I sent them my mile log with total miles only. They disallowed that log. I applied for an extension to gather more records. Should I make another log with start/finish daily miles? It would be approximate daily miles, but the total annual miles would be accurate. I have repair receipts throughout the year, January through December, to confirm miles driven in 2015. IRS is billing me over 10K for this audit.


Any idea what triggered an audit? How much money did you earn from rideshare that yr? Did you report a loss?


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## AuxCordBoston




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## UberTaxPro

AuxCordBoston said:


> View attachment 250802


There's other people on here that have been audited



AuxCordBoston said:


> Why do you think you need to Label the log as "re-constructed?" That would lead to problems. Just mail the log to the IRS.
> 
> You are the first person on this forum that had the IRS audit their Uber activities. Please keep us posted as to the outcome.
> 
> 
> butchr said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IRS is auditing my 2015 tax return. I keep pretty good records and have all my mileage logs. My problem is my mileage logs are total miles for each day. I didn't write down the starting mileage and ending mileage for each day driving for uber. Am I screwed?
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea what triggered an audit? How much money did you earn from rideshare that yr? Did you report a loss?
Click to expand...




butchr said:


> This audit has been done through the mail. "audit by mail". I sent them my mile log with total miles only. They disallowed that log. I applied for an extension to gather more records. Should I make another log with start/finish daily miles? It would be approximate daily miles, but the total annual miles would be accurate. I have repair receipts throughout the year, January through December, to confirm miles driven in 2015. IRS is billing me over 10K for this audit.


Yes, re-construct your log making sure your mileage matches all motor vehicle records, repairs etc.. You'll have the ominous task of proving that your log is an accurate re-construction and you will need supporting documents. 
There are a few ways to get them to accept a "sample" log of 3 months but the details on that are very involved. I've got a blog post on my website about it....if you PM me I'll give you the link. 
If you don't get them to accept your log at first, you'll be able to appeal. Situations like this often have better results on appeal so don't be disappointed if you don't succeed at the audit level.
The key now is to prove your log is an accurate representation of your business miles. The more supporting docs the better your chance of doing that.


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## butchr

UberTaxPro said:


> There's other people on here that have been audited
> 
> Yes, re-construct your log making sure your mileage matches all motor vehicle records, repairs etc.. You'll have the ominous task of proving that your log is an accurate re-construction and you will need supporting documents.
> There are a few ways to get them to accept a "sample" log of 3 months but the details on that are very involved. I've got a blog post on my website about it....if you PM me I'll give you the link.
> If you don't get them to accept your log at first, you'll be able to appeal. Situations like this often have better results on appeal so don't be disappointed if you don't succeed at the audit level.
> The key now is to prove your log is an accurate representation of your business miles. The more supporting docs the better your chance of doing that.


I spoke to the tax examiner on the phone. He pretty much reconfirmed what I already knew. He said, "what management wants is a record of your starting mileage and ending mileage for all days driven, and locations driven." Locations? I thought to myself. Great. I'l l let you know how things go.


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## UberTaxPro

butchr said:


> I spoke to the tax examiner on the phone. He pretty much reconfirmed what I already knew. He said, "what management wants is a record of your starting mileage and ending mileage for all days driven, and locations driven." Locations? I thought to myself. Great. I'l l let you know how things go.


Here's a form that been accepted for 100 years. You don't need the $ amounts, gas, oil, no. pass. etc.. for IRS purposes but the rest of the form might help you. If you can still access your online Uber account it might help you with locations. Include all your trips to places where mileage was verified like the repair shop and be sure the mileage on your log and repair bill jive. Good luck!


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## UberTaxPro

butchr said:


> I spoke to the tax examiner on the phone. He pretty much reconfirmed what I already knew. He said, "what management wants is a record of your starting mileage and ending mileage for all days driven, and locations driven." Locations? I thought to myself. Great. I'l l let you know how things go.


Also, I was just reading about how google tracks our location using location services and can provide a history of our travels. If you could access google's location service history or anything else like that to use as supporting evidence for your log it would be helpful. Take your time with this to get it as accurate as possible, if you need more time call your contact and ask for more time. 
Thanks for keeping us in the loop and letting everyone know that mileage log correspondence audits are indeed common. On the bright side for you....this is just a correspondence audit and they only want one thing, your mileage log. It could be worse!


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## razzorr1

This is my situation. I am currently active duty and stationed in Chicago. Since I was active duty I know I could keep my Florida resident and enjoy the no state tax. However this November I will be retired. I still have my house in Florida but I was planning on working for a few more months up here in Chicago. So can I still claim Florida residency even if I am no longer active duty? I still have a house in Florida where my wife lives. Thanks


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## UberTaxPro

razzorr1 said:


> This is my situation. I am currently active duty and stationed in Chicago. Since I was active duty I know I could keep my Florida resident and enjoy the no state tax. However this November I will be retired. I still have my house in Florida but I was planning on working for a few more months up here in Chicago. So can I still claim Florida residency even if I am no longer active duty? I still have a house in Florida where my wife lives. Thanks


Every state has its own laws regarding residency for taxation purposes. States have different requirements for resident, part-time resident and non resident. You can learn about a specific state by reading the instructions on their tax forms or their tax code. A good reference for state tax forms: https://www.taxadmin.org/state-tax-forms.
Many states use the 6 month test for residency, but not all. I haven't researched Illinois but I'll guess that 2 months working there will not make you a full time resident. You'll still have to pay state income tax for the money you earn in Illinois for the two months, most likely using this form: http://www.revenue.state.il.us/taxforms/IncmCurrentYear/Individual/IL-1040-Schedule-NR.pdf


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## razzorr1

Thank you so much for your time and info.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

razzorr1 said:


> This is my situation. I am currently active duty and stationed in Chicago. Since I was active duty I know I could keep my Florida resident and enjoy the no state tax. However this November I will be retired. I still have my house in Florida but I was planning on working for a few more months up here in Chicago. So can I still claim Florida residency even if I am no longer active duty? I still have a house in Florida where my wife lives. Thanks


Uber sucks big ones in florida,

Rates per mile are as low as 53c a mile


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## dryverjohn

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


My wife is a CPA and has to take continuing ed classes for her license. On a tax update she attended the instructor indicated that rideshare drivers that did not work full time, are now unable to deduct mileage. The IRS classifies this as a hobby, rather than a job. I know this board would meltdown if that were true. Do you know where to find the IRS document that indicates that all mileage can be deducted whether full or part time? 
TIA


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## AuxCordBoston

dryverjohn said:


> My wife is a CPA and has to take continuing ed classes for her license. On a tax update she attended the instructor indicated that rideshare drivers that did not work full time, are now unable to deduct mileage. The IRS classifies this as a hobby, rather than a job. I know this board would meltdown if that were true. Do you know where to find the IRS document that indicates that all mileage can be deducted whether full or part time?
> TIA


Ahhhh. Hobby vs job.


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## UberTaxPro

dryverjohn said:


> My wife is a CPA and has to take continuing ed classes for her license. On a tax update she attended the instructor indicated that rideshare drivers that did not work full time, are now unable to deduct mileage. The IRS classifies this as a hobby, rather than a job. I know this board would meltdown if that were true. Do you know where to find the IRS document that indicates that all mileage can be deducted whether full or part time?
> TIA


This thread is over two years old and the guy that started it hasn't been around at all lately. If you ask this in another thread I'll try to answer


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## 142605

UberPissed said:


> I think the title says it all. Anything I can help with?


Yes! Two questions...

1) . Does a new car ever make sense with deprecation write off?

2). Can losses driving for Uber offset tax debt / liens from past years?


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## Fozzie

If I make $19k with Uber and $19k with Lyft, I don't get any 1099k.

Is that reported to the IRS in any way? If I _forgot_ to add it to my tax return, how would the IRS know? (asking for a friend)


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## 142605

Fozzie said:


> If I make $19k with Uber and $19k with Lyft, I don't get any 1099k.
> 
> Is that reported to the IRS in any way? If I _forgot_ to add it to my tax return, how would the IRS know? (asking for a friend)


You should definitely get a 1099.


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## Fozzie

Authority said:


> You should definitely get a 1099.


In the past, if I made less than $20k neither Uber or Lyft issued a 1099K.


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## Skinny1

Yes and I got one when the first year I made $5k.

Better start saving that $$ for the back taxes you will owe... ouch .

You know you were to get one , it’s on you to reach out and get it if
It never came.


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## UberTaxPro

Authority said:


> You should definitely get a 1099.


This thread is over two years old and the guy that started it hasn't been around lately. If you ask this in another thread I'll try to answer.


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## AuxCordBoston

butchr said:


> I spoke to the tax examiner on the phone. He pretty much reconfirmed what I already knew. He said, "what management wants is a record of your starting mileage and ending mileage for all days driven, and locations driven." Locations? I thought to myself. Great. I'l l let you know how things go.


Any update on completing your mileage log and submitting to the IRS?


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## Skinny1

UberTaxPro said:


> This thread is over two years old and the guy that started it hasn't been around lately. If you ask this in another thread I'll try to answer.


Quick question on something I realized where I might not benefit as much as previously thought.

Vehicle I ended up using partially for business.... that will be part of a buyback. This means I may show a substantial gain on the disposal.

I've depreciated it for about 9k miles using it on Uber over the last 2 years. Total years of ownership 5+ years.
This makes up only 15% of the total miles on the disposal if I get rid of it now.

So purchase car for roughly

$33k.

Total miles 62k
Uber miles 9k

Buyback (diesel) will be $25k

I think I may have screwed up thinking I was gaining using this car to Uber.

Any insight on this disposal if I do it now? Am I better off not using the 6.5k miles YTD as a deduction in 2018 math wise? That means I will only have 2.7k miles from 2017 as business used miles so only 5% business use miles to pay taxes on in the gain?

Thanks for your help. May stop using this car today as an Uber vehicle and turn in based on the answer.

Edit : upon further reviews I may have worried over nothing. My basis will still be more than the buyback based on the miles and depriciation I have claimed being so small. 
Standing by for your clarification.


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## Cmspeciale

I’m new. This question may have been asked already. 

I want to do taxes myself, but I don’t want to have to pay for any mile tracking app or quickbooks if I don’t have to. Can I just keep it all down with pen/paper and collect my receipts? Is this acceptable with the IRS?


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## El Jefe de Hialeah

DRiver II said:


> I created a thread in this section that pretty much sums it up.
> 
> I'm not trying to evade anything, I just had uncommon circumstances. I assume, that led to such. a high cost repair being the most significant.


Sound kinda nervous there buddy, thinking about doing an amended filing? You could flee to Miami, they love tax "creatives" down there


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## tohunt4me

El Jefe de Hialeah said:


> Sound kinda nervous there buddy, thinking about doing an amended filing? You could flee to Miami, they love tax "creatives" down there


Al Capone got locked up for Taxes.


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## LAuberX

Cmspeciale said:


> I'm new. This question may have been asked already.
> 
> I want to do taxes myself, but I don't want to have to pay for any mile tracking app or quickbooks if I don't have to. Can I just keep it all down with pen/paper and collect my receipts? Is this acceptable with the IRS?


YES. write down the mileage at the start and end of each day you drive for rideshare, no receipts needed, just a mileage log.


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## vtcomics

I've gotten conflicting answers about being able to include deadhead miles towards total mileage deduction. Example: trip takes me 45 miles out to literally the middle of mountains. The 45 mile slog back home (which is where I started from to go pickup the pax) is deductible too, yes or no??

As for record keeping; I take screen shots of each trip and upload to the cloud, and have matching Excel sheet with dates, addresses for pick up and drop off, miles for pax trip, miles to next ping/pax, total miles and fare. Shouldn't that all be more than enough???


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## AuxCordBoston

This thread is old. The relevant point at this time is that a member was audited by the IRS. He sent them his mileage log. The IRS rejected it since it had starting and ending miles only. He is now working on a revised log. The attorney who started this thread is long gone.


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