# Lowest per mile ive seen, ever.



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)




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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)




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## Uberisfuninlv (Mar 22, 2017)

But but they ONLY took 40% of the fare. Give Uber a break!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


I would accept the trip and then phone the pax to let them know that the fare is $100 light - $100 cash tip up front secures the ride. If not then cancel.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


Pays 50 cents a mile to destination. Typical cost to operate (including replacing the vehicle at $40,000 after 300,000 miles) is currently (with the $4.50 gas) about .65 cents a mile. (Current IRS tax credit is .58 cents a mile). So you lose .15 cents going there and lose .65 cents on the return trip. (Or did you plan on living in your vehicle until you got a return trip or months with a series of directional trips?) Unfortunately so many newbies get caught with that high dollar amount and drive until they burn out their vehicle or their savings. Even if one is making .20 cents a mile profit, in both directions, it's a whopping 100,000 miles (7 hours of driving a day, paid by a trip, 365 days a year) to make a measly $33,000 which the IRS takes $10,000 away for taxes and social security. For all intensive purposes, unless your in a niche area or Uber is paying enough to cover a return and .30 a mile profit, you only take directional trips, meaning you were intending to go that way anyway and just waiting for someone else who is going that way also, which on long trips could be days, weeks or even months. Every mile driven without a trip covering it your losing .65 cents. In this case it's not even doing that, just reducing it some. Uber driver income does not satisfy car loan agencies, your one accident away from becoming a rider instead. The more one drives, the more accidents occur. Take trips for cash? Your risk going to jail, being sued, fined and banned from ridesharing and blacklisted by insurance companies. Obey The Numbers, numbers don't lie. Do your math before you drive. Make .20 cents a mile profit 95% of the miles driven on vehicle and it's only about $10 an hour plus about $3 an hour in tips after costs. Surely a normal job paying over $10 an hour is better as your burning out your vehicle, risking an accident or worse. Not to mention changes in economy where no one is taking Ubers for awhile. Making a living on Uber can be done, it's very hard and requires a shrewd mind and living ground zero in a hot zone so your not baking in your vehicle all day. Good luck out there drivers!


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Pays 50 cents a mile to destination. Typical cost to operate (including replacing the vehicle at $40,000 after 300,000 miles) is currently (with the $4.50 gas) about .65 cents a mile. (Current IRS tax credit is .58 cents a mile). So you lose .15 cents going there and lose .65 cents on the return trip. (Or did you plan on living in your vehicle until you got a return trip or months with a series of directional trips?) Unfortunately so many newbies get caught with that high dollar amount and drive until they burn out their vehicle or their savings. Even if one is making .20 cents a mile profit, in both directions, it's a whopping 100,000 miles (7 hours of driving a day, paid by a trip, 365 days a year) to make a measly $33,000 which the IRS takes $10,000 away for taxes and social security. For all intensive purposes, unless your in a niche area or Uber is paying enough to cover a return and .30 a mile profit, you only take directional trips, meaning you were intending to go that way anyway and just waiting for someone else who is going that way also, which on long trips could be days, weeks or even months. Every mile driven without a trip covering it your losing .65 cents. In this case it's not even doing that, just reducing it some. Uber driver income does not satisfy car loan agencies, your one accident away from becoming a rider instead. The more one drives, the more accidents occur. Take trips for cash? Your risk going to jail, being sued, fined and banned from ridesharing and blacklisted by insurance companies. Obey The Numbers, numbers don't lie. Do your math before you drive. Make .20 cents a mile profit 95% of the miles driven on vehicle and it's only about $10 an hour plus about $3 an hour in tips after costs. Surely a normal job paying over $10 an hour is better as your burning out your vehicle, risking an accident or worse. Not to mention changes in economy where no one is taking Ubers for awhile. Making a living on Uber can be done, it's very hard and requires a shrewd mind and living ground zero in a hot zone so your not baking in your vehicle all day. Good luck out there drivers!


You are spreading misinformation. It does not COST $0.65 per mile to operate a rideshare vehicle. If it does, you are doing something horribly wrong.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> replacing the vehicle at $40,000 after 300,000 miles


If you're buying a $40,000 vehicle for Uber X / Lyft then you're doing it very, very wrong.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> I would accept the trip and then phone the pax to let them know that the fare is $100 light - $100 cash tip up front secures the ride. If not then cancel.
> [/QUOTE
> Yep, that's the way to





elelegido said:


> I would accept the trip and then phone the pax to let them know that the fare is $100 light - $100 cash tip up front secures the ride. If not then cancel.


Except another $100 isn't going to even cover the costs. 400 miles x .65 a mile = $260. $260-100 (from Uber) = $160 more. AND now you add your profit. $20 a hour for driving 400 miles @ 60 mph is 7 hours x $20 is $140. So they need to only up not another $100, but another $300 up front tip. If not they can take the ****ing bus. Lol.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


Looks like you're going to another state.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Uberisfuninlv said:


> But but they ONLY took 40% of the fare. Give Uber a break!


That distance for even $160 is an embarrassment. Looks like a distance a Limo would charge $1,000 for. To go that far and almost all across the entire state for $101 is a joke. I wouldn't do it for even $200. I'd do it do minimum for $325.









Uber lost over $5 billion in one quarter, but don’t worry, it gets worse


Uber and Lyft keep losing money while driving up the number of cars on our overcrowded streets.




www.theverge.com


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Rideshare Dude said:


> You are spreading misinformation. It does not COST $0.65 per mile to operate a rideshare vehicle. If it does, you are doing something horribly wrong.


.20 mile for gas
.04 mile for fluids
.02 mile for tires
.07 mile for cleaning
.04 phone
.03 insurance
.03 repairs
.14 vehicle cost ($40k/300k miles)
.10 mile taxes

I'm a former taxi driver, vehicles burn out or cost too much to repair after a certain amount of miles, experience with this with good care a good vehicle will last apx 300,000 miles.

The common misconception is ones vehicle is going to last forever until it doesn't. Then one can't get a loan because they only put Uber down as an income source. Then the wild card factor is accidents, one guy near me wrecked two cars in one year and now is renting a Tesla (a bad choice for an Uber) for $1000 a month he isn't even breaking even on due to all the competition and time charging.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Except another $100 isn't going to even cover the costs. 400 miles x .65 a mile = $260. $260-100 (from Uber) = $160 more. AND now you add your profit. $20 a hour for driving 400 miles @ 60 mph is 7 hours x $20 is $140. So they need to only up not another $100, but another $200 up front tip. If not they can take the ****ing bus. Lol.


If your costs are $0.65 per mile, then you're doing it wrong. In another post you advocated spending $40,000 on an Uber X vehicle, and this will represent the majority of where you're going wrong. 

If you have indeed just purchased a new $40,000 vehicle for rideshare then please sell it ASAP in order to cut your losses. Then read around this forum to get some tips and pointers towards suitable rideshare vehicles, and then start again. Be sure to look at reliability and economy as well as purchase price / depreciation in order to get your $0.65/mile running costs down to something more reasonable.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Ozzyoz said:


> That distance for even $160 is an embarrassment. Looks like a distance a Limo would charge $1,000 for. To go that far and almost all across the entire state for $101 is a joke. I wouldn't do it for even $200. I'd do it do minimum for $325.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that was CA then $200 wouldn't be enough, definitely.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> .20 mile for gas
> .04 mile for fluids
> .02 mile for tires
> .07 mile for cleaning
> ...


7 cents a mile for cleaning?? 🤣 🤣 🤣


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> I would accept the trip and then phone the pax to let them know that the fare is $100 light - $100 cash tip up front secures the ride. If not then cancel.
> [/QUOTE
> Yep, that's the way to





elelegido said:


> If you're buying a $40,000 vehicle for Uber X / Lyft then you're doing it very, very wrong.


Well this is the problem, the Uber rating system is set up to satisfy riders. The more satisfied, the more and higher tipping fares one gets. So pax like newer looking, shiny vehicles. It's a sign your successful like they are, they tip well.


Plus there is a 15 year time limit on vehicles, so one just can't go out and get a decent, but cheap/old enough, used SUV. Vans are cheap crap, their sliders break often when they get older.

My truck has over 440,000 miles on it, all but 100,000 was on Uber. It has doors, it's roomy as heck, it's been in for minor repairs, but it's designed to be fixed. Parts are on the shelf, repairs are done in a day. It still running and looking near brand new, I can keep it Ubering for another 7 more years. I've made the money from Ubering alone to buy a brand new one for cash. The money is in the bank, burning a hole in my pocket, but I will keep running this baby until it drops or Uber tells me no more.

The problem buying too old of a used vehicle is your often buying someone's elses problem. I've learned a lot being a former taxi driver.

It took me 3.5 years of Ubering 18 hours a day, everyday, to save up enough to buy a new truck and still have some cushion perhaps a nice new SUV.

However I would be doing something seriously wrong spending too much money PER YEAR on vehicles with just a measly $15,000-30,000 Uber income when they tend not to last long past 300,000 miles.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Illini said:


> 7 cents a mile for cleaning?? 🤣 🤣 🤣


Keeps the ratings up and the tips high.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

elelegido said:


> If that was CA then $200 wouldn't be enough, definitely.


I'm in Midwest. Florida gets rich older people but majority of people aren't rich 🤑. So Uber low balls and minimum ride in Florida and other southern states I heard is $2 fare in Uber. In Cali drivers must make $1k or more for that kind of run as it's a tech sector land. I've been driven in Lyft by Lux Lexus drivers for $30 to go 5 miles when I was taking Lyft from Airport to nearby restaurant before I took Lyft again to San Diego border to go Tijuana.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> If your costs are $0.65 per mile, then you're doing it wrong. In another post you advocated spending $40,000 on an Uber X vehicle, and this will represent the majority of where you're going wrong.
> 
> If you have indeed just purchased a new $40,000 vehicle for rideshare then please sell it ASAP in order to cut your losses. Then read around this forum to get some tips and pointers towards suitable rideshare vehicles, and then start again. Be sure to look at reliability and economy as well as purchase price / depreciation in order to get your $0.65/mile running costs down to something more reasonable.


Vehicle was paid for and had 100,000 miles on it (from me) prior to doing Uber. With great care, and a dam good mechanic, it's now got 440,000 miles.

MIT recommends not paying more than $20,000 for an Uber vehicle and with factoring an accident is 2 x $20,000 = $40,000. 

However I started out with a paid for vehicle, plus I have cash replacement in the bank, thus this year forward my costs are actually .50 cents a mile, even with the high gas costs. 

I could save a tiny bit more by washing myself, doing my own detailing, oil changes etc. but I do extremely well on tips and I work 18 hours that I just sub that out as it's more cost effective in my situation.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> .20 mile for gas
> .04 mile for fluids
> .02 mile for tires
> .07 mile for cleaning
> ...


Yup. You are doing many things horribly wrong. Most of your numbers are wildly inflated based on my personal experience of 5.5 years and three vehicles. I drive ~60,000 miles a year. Do the math. Your numbers are CRAZY high. Or maybe you were high when you concocted them.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Illini said:


> 7 cents a mile for cleaning?? 🤣 🤣 🤣


I get great tips, so it's more cost effective to sub out most of it and save the energy for driving. But I do vac, dry windows, wipe interior etc. often twice a day. That's labor and materials which are costs.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Yup. You are doing many things horribly wrong. Most of your numbers are wildly inflated based on my personal experience of 5.5 years and three vehicles. I drive ~60,000 miles a year. Do the math. Your numbers are CRAZY high. Or maybe you were high when you concocted them.


Well I did 100,000 miles last year, 85,000 the year before and this year looks like it would be about 80,000. Those are odometer miles. So year I'm doing a lot more volume.

And in 5.5 years you went through 3 vehicles already? ( Baring an accident) I'm on my 4th year with Uber with the same vehicle I started with. Which pax think it's new because I keep it well detailed and shiny inside and out. Still runs great and can keep Ubering for another 7 years.

Profit in this business is getting as much profitable life out of a vehicle as possible. Going cheap or flimsy vehicle can kill you. Because like my friend who got a new Uber car and a week later got totaled, you never know when it will happen. Plan on it happening, have cash on hand for a quick flatbed tow, they like cash, come quicker than $hit.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Well I did 100,000 miles last year, 85,000 the year before and this year looks like it would be about 80,000. Those are odometer miles. So year I'm doing a lot more volume.


Until easily repaired, cost effective 800+ mile range electric SUV's come out I don't think I can get those numbers down substancially.

Perhaps with your figuring your vehicle is going to last 600,000 miles or more. 

The thing is one needs to save enough to be able to buy TWO vehicles, one to replace the one they are burning out plus one more for the accident that's is going to total it.

Then perhaps by then one will come to their senses and get a better paying job than what Uber (or worse Lyft) is giving. Or just burn out about driving. I love driving obviously


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Well I did 100,000 miles last year, 85,000 the year before and this year looks like it would be about 80,000. Those are odometer miles. So year I'm doing a lot more volume.


Sometimes, due to the amount of driving, I have to have the oil changed every other week. Newer vehicles demand a prompt oil change via the dashboard and mechanical sounds if ignored, perhaps your oil changes are not as frequent, older vehicle or doing it yourself.

There are some things I could pinch on, but driving a lot I need rest, so I sub it out to others. More cost effective and increases my availability.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Well this is the problem, the Uber rating system is set up to satisfy riders. The more satisfied, the more and higher tipping fares one gets. So pax like newer looking, shiny vehicles. It's a sign your successful like they are, they tip well.
> 
> 
> Plus there is a 15 year time limit on vehicles, so one just can't go out and get a decent, but cheap/old enough, used SUV. Vans are cheap crap, their sliders break often when they get older.
> ...


Anything you spend 40k for new, you can find the same vehicle with 60k miles for half price or less.

Is it worth spending 20k for that first 60k miles? No, of course not. You are basically throwing away 20 grand.

I hope you can see how youre doing it wrong. I have considered making a post on this very topic to shame and educate the high-horse drivers who brag about buying a new car for rs. This is one of the biggest mistake some drivers make, and it creates an unrealistic perception for passengers.

Shame! But you learned something.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Ozzyoz said:


> .... I've been driven in Lyft by Lux Lexus drivers for $30 to go 5 miles ...


Well that's about $3 a mile. Figure the return that's 10 miles.

If factoring in a 30% take by Lyft, that's $2.10 a mile for the driver for a profit of about $1.45.

Must have been LUX SUV.

Not too many lux requests, most people just need to get where they are going in an decent vehicle that's not cramping them or can't handle their luggage.

I've taken celebrities to rock stars to CEO's, almost picked up the ambassador to Pakistan once. 😂 

"I'll never get into an Uber" 😆

Ok fellows nice chatting with you, but this is my one time posting here and I've shed my knowledge and experience. I've found it best to save my vocals for the pax and out of chat rooms.

Good luck out there, it sucks. Lol


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> Anything you spend 40k for new, you can find the same vehicle with 60k miles for half price or less.
> 
> Is it worth spending 20k for that first 60k miles? No, of course not. You are basically throwing away 20 grand.
> 
> ...


I agree with you that buying brand new is not the way to go, in fact I bought this truck used with factory warranty, with 15,000 miles for 30k. Thing I figured was they couldn't have screwed up too much with only 15k on it. Turns out a jealous worker threw something through the windshield and it was replaced and turned in. 

Now of course the same truck is $37k with 67k miles on it and no warranty.

What I am getting is an incredible lifespan out of this truck, it's easily repaired compared to compacts, although the per mile costs may be higher than an electric egg shell or hybrid compact, it outlives one more than 2x and that's a cost savings of over $30,000. Plus big pax request me for long trips and tip well.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> I agree with you that buying brand new is not the way to go, in fact I bought this truck used with factory warranty, with 15,000 miles for 30k. Thing I figured was they couldn't have screwed up too much with only 15k on it. Turns out a jealous worker threw something through the windshield and it was replaced and turned in.
> 
> Now of course the same truck is $37k with 67k miles on it and no warranty.
> 
> What I am getting is an incredible lifespan out of this truck, it's easily repaired compared to compacts, although the per mile costs may be higher than an electric egg shell or hybrid compact, it outlives one more than 2x and that's a cost savings of over $30,000. Plus big pax request me for long trips and tip well.


And yes driving a too newish fancy car can reduce tips because people want to think they are helping you with their generosity.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

elelegido said:


> I would accept the trip and then phone the pax to let them know that the fare is $100 light - $100 cash tip up front secures the ride. If not then cancel.


Maybe you should reconsider your price. Even if the pax agreed to pay you $100 cash tip you'd only be grossing a puny $200 for 400 miles of roundtrip driving. 

Deduct $45 for gas and now you've only got $155 for all that driving. You still want to do it?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660872


It's much worse than you think because that ride is 400 miles ROUNDTRIP.

So imagine grossing a pathetic $100 to drive 400 miles. Deduct $45 for gas and you're down to $55 payout for driving 400 miles and more than 7 hours.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Once this upfront pricing took effect, haven't left my city let alone the state and Im 40 minutes from George. 

Im sure someone took it. Id only hope they learnt to never do that again.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Once this upfront pricing took effect, haven't left my city let alone the state and Im 40 minutes from George.
> 
> Im sure someone took it. Id only hope they learnt to never do that again.


The odds are close to zero that anyone accepted that trip for $101. 

There are very few drivers including ants who are willing to drive that far for a ride, especially for such a horrendous payout.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Ozzyoz said:


> Looks like you're going to another state.


You know that Jacksonville and Tampa are both in Florida right? 🤦‍♂️


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

New2This said:


> You know that Jacksonville and Tampa are both in Florida right? 🤦‍♂️


Funny part about that is Lakeland George is 65ish miles closer then Lakeland fl. 

Either way you still are deadheading back home.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Maybe you should reconsider your price. Even if the pax agreed to pay you $100 cash tip you'd only be grossing a puny $200 for 400 miles of roundtrip driving.
> 
> Deduct $45 for gas and now you've only got $155 for all that driving. You still want to do it?


As mentioned above, if it were CA then the price would be different. But that's a Florida ride, where the rates are something like 50 cents per mile and 10 cents per minute. So, if I were in Florida Ubering for those rates (which I wouldn't be) then $200 gross would be comparatively better.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

elelegido said:


> As mentioned above, if it were CA then the price would be different. But that's a Florida ride, where the rates are something like 50 cents per mile and 10 cents per minute. So, if I were in Florida Ubering for those rates (which I wouldn't be) then $200 gross would be comparatively better.


It doesn't matter what the payout would be in CA. You said you'd do that ride for $200.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

We have no rate card here. Sliding scale.

I've done a long term _matrix analytical database comparison of work_ (madcow) , and have determined uber wants to only pay $18 - $22 an hour.

If you where good subservient ant, and excepted with no rejections, that's all that you will make.

They manipulate the prices and travel times to insure this. Base fare at $4.25 with about a 12 minute engagement time. Longer trips seem to top out at $22 for 50 minute engagement time.

A 95% AR does nothing but loose money.
A 5% AR is required to make $25+ an hour.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> I've done a long term _matrix analytical database comparison of work_ (madcow) , and have determined uber wants to only pay $18 - $22 an hour.


Am I correct in assuming that you're saying that $18-$22 is the MAXIMUM Uber "wants" to pay?

Rather than "wants" I think a more accurate description would be $18-$22 is the maximum amount Dara and his gang can stomach paying the drivers.

Uber HATES paying the drivers ANYTHING. They're pissed off that the drivers are still around. In 2013 Travis and his henchmen thought that the SDCs would be underway by now.

The fact that Uber's paying 1970s taxi rates in the year 2022 shows that even $18 is well above what Uber "wants" drivers to gross.

Look at Eats. Uber's barely paying the drivers anything now. The customers are doing most of the paying now.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

r


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> It doesn't matter what the payout would be in CA. You said you'd do that ride for $200.


Yes, as I already explained, if I were a Florida driver I would do it for $200. In Florida. Where else would one do a Florida ride, except in Florida. Do you think it's possible to do a Florida ride in a different state? 

As I also explained, if such a ride came up in CA, then I would not do it for $200, given that rates are higher in CA. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about it, even for you.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Am I correct in assuming that you're saying that $18-$22 is the MAXIMUM Uber "wants" to pay?


If you're good subservient ant follow the rides that uber sends you with no rejections. Yes.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> Yes, as I already explained, if I were a Florida driver I would do it for $200. In Florida. Where else would one do a Florida ride, except in Florida. Do you think it's possible to do a Florida ride in a different state?
> 
> As I also explained, if such a ride came up in CA, then I would not do it for $200, given that rates are higher in CA. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about it, even for you.


$200 is only 50c a mile?
You're still only making $0.25 a mile with deadhead return.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

16gal gas at $4.75 with 25 mpg.

$76.00


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> 16gal gas at $4.75 with 25 mpg.
> 
> $76.00


If you're only getting 25mpg highway then you're doing it very wrong.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> $200 is only 50c a mile?


Yes, but that's what you Florida fellers make anyway. Plus there'd be a chance of some rides back along the way courtesy of destination filter.

Agreed, it's not great, but given your rock-bottom rates that you have there, it's no worse than schlepping around locally, I would think.


> You're still only making $0.25 a mile with deadhead return.


*math skills.

400 miles / $200 = 50c per mile if it were a deadhead return.

Math is hard.....


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## margoc60xx (7 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> Yes, but that's what you Florida fellers make anyway. Plus there'd be a chance of some rides back along the way courtesy of destination filter.
> 
> Agreed, it's not great, but given your rock-bottom rates that you have there, it's no worse than schlepping around locally, I would think.
> 
> ...


I noticed the ride to Logan is 75-80.00..was 40-45 minus 2 tolls..and usually no tip!! Ppl in RI next to never tip.Do you think it's worth the ride? Then I never get anything on the ride back to Providence


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

margoc60xx said:


> I noticed the ride to Logan is 75-80.00..was 40-45 minus 2 tolls..and usually no tip!! Ppl in RI next to never tip.Do you think it's worth the ride? Then I never get anything on the ride back to Providence


I think you're trying to say that a ride to Logan pays $75-$80 for either (a) a 40-45 mile trip or (b) a trip that takes 40-45 minutes (it's not clear as you don't give any units for the "40-45"), and that you have two tolls to pay, and that you're asking if it is worth it. However, in order to know that, you would need to clarify the number of miles of the trip, the trip duration, the cost of the tolls and whether or not these are reimbursed.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> Yes, but that's what you Florida fellers make anyway. Plus there'd be a chance of some rides back along the way courtesy of destination filter.
> 
> Agreed, it's not great, but given your rock-bottom rates that you have there, it's no worse than schlepping around locally, I would think.
> 
> ...


No, you would be making 25c a mile. The other 25 would be expenses.
(i respect the fact the queens English is a bit different but i think make means the same in both countrys. Now had i said gross... that would be different.)
*word definition, even harder

There would be no return trips from lakeland.

And i can make 100 in 3 hours with less then 1/4 of the miles easy local


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> If you're only getting 25mpg highway then you're doing it very wrong.


Ok so whats your average mpg (not car specific) you would use?

This was based on a 15-year span of a multiple vehicle ages. Seeing this what the uber platform allows. 

*working with, recognizing, and understanding averages. Even harder then word definition


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## Jcedwards3232 (Jul 7, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Pays 50 cents a mile to destination. Typical cost to operate (including replacing the vehicle at $40,000 after 300,000 miles) is currently (with the $4.50 gas) about .65 cents a mile. (Current IRS tax credit is .58 cents a mile). So you lose .15 cents going there and lose .65 cents on the return trip. (Or did you plan on living in your vehicle until you got a return trip or months with a series of directional trips?) Unfortunately so many newbies get caught with that high dollar amount and drive until they burn out their vehicle or their savings. Even if one is making .20 cents a mile profit, in both directions, it's a whopping 100,000 miles (7 hours of driving a day, paid by a trip, 365 days a year) to make a measly $33,000 which the IRS takes $10,000 away for taxes and social security. For all intensive purposes, unless your in a niche area or Uber is paying enough to cover a return and .30 a mile profit, you only take directional trips, meaning you were intending to go that way anyway and just waiting for someone else who is going that way also, which on long trips could be days, weeks or even months. Every mile driven without a trip covering it your losing .65 cents. In this case it's not even doing that, just reducing it some. Uber driver income does not satisfy car loan agencies, your one accident away from becoming a rider instead. The more one drives, the more accidents occur. Take trips for cash? Your risk going to jail, being sued, fined and banned from ridesharing and blacklisted by insurance companies. Obey The Numbers, numbers don't lie. Do your math before you drive. Make .20 cents a mile profit 95% of the miles driven on vehicle and it's only about $10 an hour plus about $3 an hour in tips after costs. Surely a normal job paying over $10 an hour is better as your burning out your vehicle, risking an accident or worse. Not to mention changes in economy where no one is taking Ubers for awhile. Making a living on Uber can be done, it's very hard and requires a shrewd mind and living ground zero in a hot zone so your not baking in your vehicle all day. Good luck out there drivers!


Where the hell do you get $.65 a mile?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Jcedwards3232 said:


> Where the hell do you get $.65 a mile?





ObeyTheNumbers said:


> .20 mile for gas
> .04 mile for fluids
> .02 mile for tires
> .07 mile for cleaning
> ...


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## donh (Mar 11, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


How is that even possible?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

donh said:


> How is that even possible?


With Uber... Anything is possible.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

The actual cost of that trip is around 460 dollars to profit with mileage unless you live in Lakeland but I wouldnt take that trip. Its time to back legislation like Federal Rideshare Transparency and Safety Act which allows drivers to set its on rates for trips like this once an actual minimum is set on what is considered out of town for that area and state. Some states wont even allow that ride to occur.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> And yes driving a too newish fancy car can reduce tips because people want to think they are helping you with their generosity.


This is not the case in my experience. Better car equals better tips in my case. No question.


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## jjpappy (8 mo ago)

Individual cost will vary depending in your auto. My car is. 

.20 gas by569why
.010 oil and filter 
.015 rubber 
.006 transmission fluid 
.0076 Value 

I do a monthly p&l. At the end of the month subtract my monthly cost phone qb etc and figure the net profit. I use a simple excel formula. As for long trips, do them if you don't mind driving for 3 or 4 dollars an hour. The c math doesn't work. It's a waste of time.


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## jjpappy (8 mo ago)

Ignore that by569why


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

Do you really need to do any math to figure out this ride is obscene crap?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Lord Summerisle said:


> Do you really need to do any math to figure out this ride is obscene crap?


Empirical data does not lie.

PU + DO < $$$


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


In 2020, California drivers had legitimate full trip info and 15 seconds to decide. Uber never offered shit like this.

In fact just the opposite occurred. Uber added Trip Premiums to entice drivers to accept some rides.

Radar is a sorry and corrupt substitute for what California drivers had in 2020.

Drivers have always wanted what CA had in 2020.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Rideshare Dude said:


> You are spreading misinformation. It does not COST $0.65 per mile to operate a rideshare vehicle. If it does, you are doing something horribly wrong.


In California it’s more than 65 cents a mile gas is almost $7 in all cities


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Discdom said:


> In California it’s more than 65 cents a mile gas is almost $7 in all cities


$7 a gallon at 25 mpg is still only $0.28 per mile. Where’s the rest?


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## 101Uber (May 18, 2021)

elelegido said:


> I would accept the trip and then phone the pax to let them know that the fare is $100 light - $100 cash tip up front secures the ride. If not then cancel.


Absolutely agree, not worth it as you have to drive all the way back with zero money in fare and don’t bother thinking your destination filter will work… Uber dest filter only works if it fire their algorithm. That’s only a tad more than .59 a mile when we actually need 1.10 in todays gas price situation.


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## 101Uber (May 18, 2021)

Rideshare Dude said:


> $7 a gallon at 25 mpg is still only $0.28 per mile. Where’s the rest?


Geesh…. Where do you start here! Tire wear, oil change cost, license fees, insurance, breakdown costs over time, pax damage/wear and tear on interior and just to name a few so that’s where the rest comes from. Now very expensive as the costs of all these are skyrocketing with inflation. Soon no one will be driving for these two thieves of pay! Neither of these companies seems to be moving to increase driver per mile pay at all and as gas keeps going higher and higher. It’s 5.50 just in Phoenix alone and 7.00+ in Cali and other states…. This whole stack of cards is ready to implode, don’t believe me just think of this gig as a triangle business model that requires all three legs to be in harmony. Gas, pax and fuel prices, well the fuel prices have exploded almost 3-4 times what they were just 16 months ago and that insulting .55 a trip surcharge is looking more and more like an insult slapped right in our faces. When you drive 8 hours, make 150.00 in Phoenix (yes that’s what is happening here and I maximize their now defunct bs bonuses) and spend 40.00 a day for fuel how long before the negative profit just takes over everyone and not just here but everywhere. Not long and I’m hearing pax now complaining loudly about waiting an hour or being canceled multiple times. I tell them our funnel has been reduced to the point, and I use me as an example where I use to have a 98% acceptance and 1.5% cancel rate that is now at 40% acceptance and 12% cancel just in order to maintain some sort or profit model. I’m ready to throw in the towel and I know a lot of other drivers I meet at the airport waiting lot saying the same and I drive a damn hybrid plug in!!


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

Rideshare Dude said:


> $7 a gallon at 25 mpg is still only $0.28 per mile. Where’s the rest?


Oil. Tires. Car washes. Tuneups. The depreciation of the car with more miles.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

101Uber said:


> Geesh…. Where do you start here! Tire wear, oil change cost, license fees, insurance, breakdown costs over time, pax damage/wear and tear on interior and just to name a few so that’s where the rest comes from. Now very expensive as the costs of all these are skyrocketing with inflation. Soon no one will be driving for these two thieves of pay! Neither of these companies seems to be moving to increase driver per mile pay at all and as gas keeps going higher and higher. It’s 5.50 just in Phoenix alone and 7.00+ in Cali and other states…. This whole stack of cards is ready to implode, don’t believe me just think of this gig as a triangle business model that requires all three legs to be in harmony. Gas, pax and fuel prices, well the fuel prices have exploded almost 3-4 times what they were just 16 months ago and that insulting .55 a trip surcharge is looking more and more like an insult slapped right in our faces. When you drive 8 hours, make 150.00 in Phoenix (yes that’s what is happening here and I maximize their now defunct bs bonuses) and spend 40.00 a day for fuel how long before the negative profit just takes over everyone and not just here but everywhere. Not long and I’m hearing pax now complaining loudly about waiting an hour or being canceled multiple times. I tell them our funnel has been reduced to the point, and I use me as an example where I use to have a 98% acceptance and 1.5% cancel rate that is now at 40% acceptance and 12% cancel just in order to maintain some sort or profit model. I’m ready to throw in the towel and I know a lot of other drivers I meet at the airport waiting lot saying the same and I drive a damn hybrid plug in!!


Every year I make less but costs are more.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

101Uber said:


> Geesh…. Where do you start here! Tire wear, oil change cost, license fees, insurance, breakdown costs over time, pax damage/wear and tear on interior and just to name a few so that’s where the rest comes from. Now very expensive as the costs of all these are skyrocketing with inflation. Soon no one will be driving for these two thieves of pay! Neither of these companies seems to be moving to increase driver per mile pay at all and as gas keeps going higher and higher. It’s 5.50 just in Phoenix alone and 7.00+ in Cali and other states…. This whole stack of cards is ready to implode, don’t believe me just think of this gig as a triangle business model that requires all three legs to be in harmony. Gas, pax and fuel prices, well the fuel prices have exploded almost 3-4 times what they were just 16 months ago and that insulting .55 a trip surcharge is looking more and more like an insult slapped right in our faces. When you drive 8 hours, make 150.00 in Phoenix (yes that’s what is happening here and I maximize their now defunct bs bonuses) and spend 40.00 a day for fuel how long before the negative profit just takes over everyone and not just here but everywhere. Not long and I’m hearing pax now complaining loudly about waiting an hour or being canceled multiple times. I tell them our funnel has been reduced to the point, and I use me as an example where I use to have a 98% acceptance and 1.5% cancel rate that is now at 40% acceptance and 12% cancel just in order to maintain some sort or profit model. I’m ready to throw in the towel and I know a lot of other drivers I meet at the airport waiting lot saying the same and I drive a damn hybrid plug in!!


At a gas cost of $4.00 per gallon my actual expenses are $0.30 per mile based on 60,000 miles per year. That includes fuel, depreciation, taxes, insurance, tires, brakes and miscellaneous maintenance. I would like to see your numbers because you are doing something horribly wrong.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Discdom said:


> Oil. Tires. Car washes. Tuneups. The depreciation of the car with more miles.


At a gas cost of $4.00 per gallon my actual expenses are $0.30 per mile based on 60,000 miles per year. That includes fuel, depreciation, taxes, insurance, tires, brakes and miscellaneous maintenance. I would like to see your numbers because you are doing something horribly wrong.


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## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Pays 50 cents a mile to destination.


Pays $0.44 a mile to destination. Zero $ for the return trip is likely.
So 22 cents per mile.
That is not why I stopped driving, but I wouldn't take that trip if offered to me. Not even if they increased it to 1,000 points. 
In Chicago, many/most drivers would not take a 6-hour ride for $101 even if it were zero miles.


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## SJUberLyftDriver2016 (Jan 25, 2016)

Discdom said:


> In California it’s more than 65 cents a mile gas is almost $7 in all cities


63 cents a mile and .27 per min.

gas ranges from 6.50 to 6.89.


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## Rampage (8 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


I see we are in the same market. I can tell you that someone took that ride. Every time something like that pops up, I try to get a screenshot to show my wife for laughs. It usually disappears fast from the radar as someone grabs it.


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## Larry Smith Pam (Jun 2, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


Truth! I took a 200 mile ride and was shocked at how little it paid not to mention that I wasted a lot of gas getting back to the metropolitan area since I couldn’t catch a fare way out in the country. After that I started paying more attention to the payout before I accepted the trip. 
I used to think that Uber was going to put taxis out of business. I still think they could have but they won’t because they are losing drivers like crazy so wait times are getting longer and longer. I still do well with rideshare but that’s because 90% of my business texts me directly for a ride. Uber got too greedy so I cut them out of the equation altogether.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> .07 mile for cleaning


Nope!


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Rideshare Dude said:


> you were high when you concocted them.


Facts!


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## Aneesur Ko Ko (9 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


Uber totally scam I drive with uber nearly 4 year I quiet driving now,


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## suds10 (7 mo ago)

Rideshare Dude said:


> You are spreading misinformation. It does not COST $0.65 per mile to operate a rideshare vehicle. If it does, you are doing something horribly wrong.


 he has shown it with figures, can you disprove with figures,not just words


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## suds10 (7 mo ago)

Rideshare Dude said:


> You are spreading misinformation. It does not COST $0.65 per mile to operate a rideshare vehicle. If it does, you are doing something horribly wrong.


 he has shown it with figures, can you disprove with figures,not just words



elelegido said:


> If you're buying a $40,000 vehicle for Uber X / Lyft then you're doing it very, very wrong.


 well if you intend on driving 300k for uber, you might as well get a brand new car at 40 k, getting a second hand at 10 k, will only give you a car that might last 100k miles


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> .20 mile for gas
> .04 mile for fluids
> .02 mile for tires
> .07 mile for cleaning
> ...


I'm sure you got lambasted again after posting this, but I ain't gonna read the whole thread. 

You're a... I want to use a mean word... But I will be polite... You're not very good at thinking bruh. Any idiot that buys a $40K car to do this stuff deserves to not make money. You're basically telling people you have to buy organic, grass fed beef for a burger restaurant and then sell it at McDonald's pricing. That ain't how it works. McDonald's buys the shit tier beef and slings it cheap. If you live in a market with Premium/Premiere/Lux/Whatever they call fancy rides nowadays, you STILL don't need to drop $40K on a car. If you're doing regular rides in a car that expensive you deserve to be shot for stupidity. Oops, I guess I stopped being polite. 

Why do you think REAL cab companies often purchased used Crown Vics back in the day? And used Priuses/vans etc now. Because one would be nuts to buy new, which is why cab companies almost never did/do. 

My first car for doing Uber was $3,900, a used minivan. Pretty nice one at that, leather, but no heated seats or extra bonus awesome stuff. Made $30-40K off of it (don't remember exactly anymore) and sold it for a couple grand still after a couple grand in repairs along the way. My 2nd car I overpaid because I liked the particular rig and I was almost out of time to buy a new one before my old one aged out and didn't have time to screw around. It was the best available in my area at the time. That was a fully loaded decked out minivan for $10,700, I think around 103,000 mile on it IIRC. Rocked it until 185,000ish miles, made over $100K off of it, then it aged out too. Not a great deal, but still made tons of money because it wasn't a completely ******ed purchase. If it hadn't aged out in my market, I could have kept rolling that thing for who knows how much longer too.

My current rig cost me $5,000 from a private party. That's the ticket again! Another loaded leather, heated seats, sunroof, etc minivan that only had 83K on the clock when I bought it. Had a cracked windshield and some very minor body damage I popped out in like 15 minutes when I bought it. Can't really even tell anymore. 

I've been driving less since getting this one, but am probably still getting close to having brought in $100K off of this rig. This one has been super reliable so far with nothing but regular maintenance AKA oil changes and brakes. If I rocked it til 185K or 200K like my previous one, I'll have probably made over $200K off of it. My new market is more lax on the age too, so I have 3 years left on this buy. If I was working more hours, I could probably pull in over $300K off this rig. $5,000 car. 

I'm sure I'll have a few grand in more expensive repairs into it by then, but then again my last one of the same model only needed one $1,000 something dollar non-regular maintenance repair to hit about 185K soooooo maybe not.

I've driven in 2 areas with pretty high per mile rates, I get it. But even in an area with average or low mileage rates it would still EASILY be profitable since I wasn't a moron and bought a vehicle intelligently for doing this job. 

So quit saying patently incorrect things dude. If somebody gets into this and needs to use a vehicle they already have they should be aware of depreciation etc if it's an expensive car... But if they plan on continuing to do it for any length of time, even as a side thing on weekends like me, they can and should buy a different Uber car. You buy right and it will pay for itself vs beating up a new/expensive car in a matter of months. 

Again, there's a reason Mcdonald's doesn't use grass fed organic beef dude.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Now as to the original thing about a long ride, sometimes they're not worth it. You gotta do the math. But sometimes you have a low "margin" but the net for your time can be good. Airport rides where I'm at are like that because I have a lot of dead head miles back, but I'm still netting $40-60 an hour more or less depending on if it's XL or regular ride, how far away from the airport they start, etc. 

But it does not cost $.65 cents a mile to operate if one is doing it remotely correctly.


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## 224619 (Jan 2, 2022)

Job market is excellent right now, we are in a candidate market .... get a real job ... or you gonna end up paying to work for Uber.


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## simtek130 (Mar 12, 2020)

101Uber said:


> Geesh…. Where do you start here! Tire wear, oil change cost, license fees, insurance, breakdown costs over time, pax damage/wear and tear on interior and just to name a few so that’s where the rest comes from. Now very expensive as the costs of all these are skyrocketing with inflation. Soon no one will be driving for these two thieves of pay! Neither of these companies seems to be moving to increase driver per mile pay at all and as gas keeps going higher and higher. It’s 5.50 just in Phoenix alone and 7.00+ in Cali and other states…. This whole stack of cards is ready to implode, don’t believe me just think of this gig as a triangle business model that requires all three legs to be in harmony. Gas, pax and fuel prices, well the fuel prices have exploded almost 3-4 times what they were just 16 months ago and that insulting .55 a trip surcharge is looking more and more like an insult slapped right in our faces. When you drive 8 hours, make 150.00 in Phoenix (yes that’s what is happening here and I maximize their now defunct bs bonuses) and spend 40.00 a day for fuel how long before the negative profit just takes over everyone and not just here but everywhere. Not long and I’m hearing pax now complaining loudly about waiting an hour or being canceled multiple times. I tell them our funnel has been reduced to the point, and I use me as an example where I use to have a 98% acceptance and 1.5% cancel rate that is now at 40% acceptance and 12% cancel just in order to maintain some sort or profit model. I’m ready to throw in the towel and I know a lot of other drivers I meet at the airport waiting lot saying the same and I drive a damn hybrid plug in!!


You have never filed your taxes or not even a driver!. This is the easiest tax free money I have ever made. 30-50k / year over the last 4 years. and by the time I filed my taxes I only made 4K for the whole year where Uber was concerned! That why California was so hell bent on making us employees. They wanted the tax on our gross and take away all our entitlements like mileage, deductions for clothing, phones and home office. Damn prop 22 was a God send! I make even more! my profit on paper is only 25% more and I’m still not paying any taxes except self employment tax, which I get back when I take social security


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

suds10 said:


> he has shown it with figures, can you disprove with figures,not just words


*Final* numbers were provided, but not the *input* numbers used to calculate. This is the missing link.

Additionally, there's no need to disprove anything because the one making the *original* assertion must supply evidence of their calculations so that they inputs can be assessed for reasonableness.


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## SpartanTransportation (7 mo ago)

101Uber said:


> Geesh…. Where do you start here! Tire wear, oil change cost, license fees, insurance, breakdown costs over time, pax damage/wear and tear on interior and just to name a few so that’s where the rest comes from. Now very expensive as the costs of all these are skyrocketing with inflation. Soon no one will be driving for these two thieves of pay! Neither of these companies seems to be moving to increase driver per mile pay at all and as gas keeps going higher and higher. It’s 5.50 just in Phoenix alone and 7.00+ in Cali and other states…. This whole stack of cards is ready to implode, don’t believe me just think of this gig as a triangle business model that requires all three legs to be in harmony. Gas, pax and fuel prices, well the fuel prices have exploded almost 3-4 times what they were just 16 months ago and that insulting .55 a trip surcharge is looking more and more like an insult slapped right in our faces. When you drive 8 hours, make 150.00 in Phoenix (yes that’s what is happening here and I maximize their now defunct bs bonuses) and spend 40.00 a day for fuel how long before the negative profit just takes over everyone and not just here but everywhere. Not long and I’m hearing pax now complaining loudly about waiting an hour or being canceled multiple times. I tell them our funnel has been reduced to the point, and I use me as an example where I use to have a 98% acceptance and 1.5% cancel rate that is now at 40% acceptance and 12% cancel just in order to maintain some sort or profit model. I’m ready to throw in the towel and I know a lot of other drivers I meet at the airport waiting lot saying the same and I drive a damn hybrid plug in!!


101Uber - I agree 100%!! Here in Michigan gas just went up $.20 more to $5.19 today. That $.55 thing only pays for 2 miles. I won't drive more than 12 minutes to go pick up someone unless I see it's an XL and I am now refusing trips to the Detroit airport 90 miles away because I'll net only make $75 less $40 in gas = $35 net for 2+ hours AND rick an accident/flat tire 90 miles away. So glad I've built up a clientele of side rides and take the middle man out of the equation.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Than


101Uber said:


> Geesh…. Where do you start here! Tire wear, oil change cost, license fees, insurance, breakdown costs over time, pax damage/wear and tear on interior and just to name a few so that’s where the rest comes from. Now very expensive as the costs of all these are skyrocketing with inflation. Soon no one will be driving for these two thieves of pay! Neither of these companies seems to be moving to increase driver per mile pay at all and as gas keeps going higher and higher. It’s 5.50 just in Phoenix alone and 7.00+ in Cali and other states…. This whole stack of cards is ready to implode, don’t believe me just think of this gig as a triangle business model that requires all three legs to be in harmony. Gas, pax and fuel prices, well the fuel prices have exploded almost 3-4 times what they were just 16 months ago and that insulting .55 a trip surcharge is looking more and more like an insult slapped right in our faces. When you drive 8 hours, make 150.00 in Phoenix (yes that’s what is happening here and I maximize their now defunct bs bonuses) and spend 40.00 a day for fuel how long before the negative profit just takes over everyone and not just here but everywhere. Not long and I’m hearing pax now complaining loudly about waiting an hour or being canceled multiple times. I tell them our funnel has been reduced to the point, and I use me as an example where I use to have a 98% acceptance and 1.5% cancel rate that is now at 40% acceptance and 12% cancel just in order to maintain some sort or profit model. I’m ready to throw in the towel and I know a lot of other drivers I meet at the airport waiting lot saying the same and I drive a damn hybrid plug in!!


Lets be thankful that self driving cars are coming. Then all the costs will be passed on to Uber and Lyft.


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## dreemin (May 29, 2015)

suds10 said:


> I bought a car for 10k 6 years ago and it's still going strong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

REX HAVOC said:


> Than
> 
> Lets be thankful that self driving cars are coming. Then all the costs will be passed on to Uber and Lyft.


You would think the costs of purchasing and operating SDCs would be passed onto Uber but don't rule out the possibility of them finding ways to somehow offload the costs onto other parties like they do now to the drivers.

There's probably ways they could enter into "partnerships" with the car companies and/or other parties that would enable Uber to avoid having to purchase and maintain the SDCs.

To say Uber is cunning is a major understatement.


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## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Rideshare Dude said:


> $7 a gallon at 25 mpg is still only $0.28 per mile. Where’s the rest?


Multiply that by two because half your miles are not paid miles. Buy a $10,000 used car that you hope to get 100,000 miles out of and that is another 10 cents times 2 or $0.20, so we are up to $0.76 per pax mile. Probably another 10 per mile with all the other stuff, so $0.96 per mile. 

Let's just call it a dollar per mile.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> You would think the costs of purchasing and operating SDCs would be passed onto Uber but don't rule out the possibility of them finding ways to somehow offload the costs onto other parties like they do now to the drivers.
> 
> There's probably ways they could enter into "partnerships" with the car companies and/or other parties that would enable Uber to avoid having to purchase and maintain the SDCs.
> 
> To say Uber is cunning is a major understatement.


Once they burn through the pool of human drivers, what else are they going to use but sdc?

Even a fleet owned sdc company is going to eventually run in the same issues as we do now is human drivers.

Uber will find some way of squeezing the fleet owner just like now. 

They can't keep deflecting the actual cost maintenance and upkeep of product to everybody else but themselves. They have one option left after sdcc and that's to actually charge a price comprable to what is needed to sustain the actual business model. That means the prices will go back up to where they should have been from the very beginning.


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## simtek130 (Mar 12, 2020)

That’s not true. I started mine at 149k and I’m well on my way to 400k all I do is take care of the oil, tires and tuneups


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

simtek130 said:


> That’s not true. I started mine at 149k and I’m well on my way to 400k all I do is take care of the oil, tires and tuneups


what do you drive?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Once they burn through the pool of human drivers, what else are they going to use but sdc?


Uber's been able to get away with burning thru drivers since the disastrous pay cuts of 2014 because Uncle Sam has provided them with a virtually limitless supply of Third World replacement drivers. So long as that continues Uber doesn't have to worry about not having enough drivers.

Uber's goal is to be part of SDC cartels similar to the taxi industry that will allow only the cartel members to operate SDC fleets.









Uber Wants to Make It Illegal to Operate Your Own Self-Driving Car in Cities - Competitive Enterprise Institute


Beleaguered ridesourcing giant Uber has been criticized for a wide variety of sins, both real and imagined. But their biggest sin yet may be what they apparently want to do to the public in the future: force everybody to use Uber’s service by outlawing private automobiles.




cei.org


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## simtek130 (Mar 12, 2020)

Ted Fink said:


> what do you drive?


2016 Cherokee


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

simtek130 said:


> 2016 Cherokee


So its a _cheap jeep thing?_


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

simtek130 said:


> You have never filed your taxes or not even a driver!. This is the easiest tax free money I have ever made. 30-50k / year over the last 4 years. and by the time I filed my taxes I only made 4K for the whole year where Uber was concerned! That why California was so hell bent on making us employees. They wanted the tax on our gross and take away all our entitlements like mileage, deductions for clothing, phones and home office. Damn prop 22 was a God send! I make even more! my profit on paper is only 25% more and I’m still not paying any taxes except self employment tax, which I get back when I take social security


Yup. The fact that the mileage deduction is soooo much higher than real expenses makes this a great tax dodge. The per mile rate where I drive is high, so I don't completely skate, but it reduces it compared to my real earnings A LOT.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> *Final* numbers were provided, but not the *input* numbers used to calculate. This is the missing link.
> 
> Additionally, there's no need to disprove anything because the one making the *original* assertion must supply evidence of their calculations so that they inputs can be assessed for reasonableness.


All those figures were nonsense. Phone, really? As if anybody doesn't already have a phone bill. That can be knocked off. $.07 per mile for cleaning? LOL I have weathertech floor mats I brush off once every few weeks, and my car looks nice. Wipe things down once in awhile. So knock that entirely off. Insurance? Again, they wouldn't have a car already? You can reasonably add the premium paid for ride share insurance if you decide to get it, but it ain't that expensive. 

All their expenses were way too high compared to reality, and half of them shouldn't be on there are all. My gas guzzler even with these high prices only costs about what they claim for gas, and anybody doing X should be getting double my mileage. Their whole list is just absurd. I'm a business owner for my real job and it always amazes me how people who do Uber seem to either completely ignore expenses, which is a bad idea, or waaay over estimate them. It's like nobody can do math or use common sense.


----------



## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

SpartanTransportation said:


> 101Uber - I agree 100%!! Here in Michigan gas just went up $.20 more to $5.19 today. That $.55 thing only pays for 2 miles. I won't drive more than 12 minutes to go pick up someone unless I see it's an XL and I am now refusing trips to the Detroit airport 90 miles away because I'll net only make $75 less $40 in gas = $35 net for 2+ hours AND rick an accident/flat tire 90 miles away. So glad I've built up a clientele of side rides and take the middle man out of the equation.


Your car gets 5 miles to the gallon, and gas was completely free before now? Cuz that's what .55 cents surcharge would work out to compared to a year or two ago. I'm not saying some trips don't make sense now that might have before, but your math is completely wrong.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Wil Mette said:


> Multiply that by two because half your miles are not paid miles. Buy a $10,000 used car that you hope to get 100,000 miles out of and that is another 10 cents times 2 or $0.20, so we are up to $0.76 per pax mile. Probably another 10 per mile with all the other stuff, so $0.96 per mile.
> 
> Let's just call it a dollar per mile.


LOL NO it's not dude. All that guys expenses were bunk. I bought a $5K car I could probably get 150K or more miles out of. But his other numbers are far worse than even the cost of the car.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Once they burn through the pool of human drivers, what else are they going to use but sdc?
> 
> Even a fleet owned sdc company is going to eventually run in the same issues as we do now is human drivers.
> 
> ...


They'll probably do what cab companies do, and what intelligent drivers do, which is purchase used vehicles. You guys are smoking crack with your numbers. I ran numbers really hard when I first started doing this, and it was insanely profitable for me. IIRC my real expenses per mile were something like $.23 a mile. They're of course a bit higher now, but a heck of a lot less than Uber charges in most markets. If you remove the need to pay a human there is plenty of margin in there for them.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

simtek130 said:


> 2016 Cherokee


I'm surprised a newer Cherokee is being that bullet proof! If it's a lot of highway miles I guess that could make sense though.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Wil Mette said:


> Multiply that by two because half your miles are not paid miles. Buy a $10,000 used car that you hope to get 100,000 miles out of and that is another 10 cents times 2 or $0.20, so we are up to $0.76 per pax mile. Probably another 10 per mile with all the other stuff, so $0.96 per mile.
> 
> Let's just call it a dollar per mile.


This is the most ridiculous attempt at math I’ve ever heard. I have an actual spreadsheet with all my FACTS and figures. Last yearly average I drove .25 unpaid miles for every paid mile. I’m not even gonna get into the rest because you are just throwing sh1t at the wall to see what sticks.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Rideshare Dude said:


> This is the most ridiculous attempt at math I’ve ever heard. I have an actual spreadsheet with all my FACTS and figures. Last yearly average I drove .25 unpaid miles for every paid mile. I’m not even gonna get into the rest because you are just throwing sh1t at the wall to see what sticks.


These people are hilarious aren't they? My margins are so healthy I stopped keeping detailed track of that kind of stuff a few years back. I'm in a more suburban area now, so do have more unpaid miles than I used to, but back when I lived in Seattle my pickups were almost always very short. Being in the burbs my mileage rate is super high to account for the longer pickups though, so still works out fine.


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## simtek130 (Mar 12, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> So its a _cheap jeep thing?_


Nope it’s a take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you thing.


Ballard_Driver said:


> Yup. The fact that the mileage deduction is soooo much higher than real expenses makes this a great tax dodge. The per mile rate where I drive is high, so I don't completely skate, but it reduces it compared to my real earnings A LOT.


if you use the home office deduction and keep mileage logs you don’t have to go by what Uber says, that’s way low anyway. I go by what my mileage is when I turn on your app. Or if I have to drop the wife at work or my kid at school, I go by when I finish my fill up and coffee, turn on my app and head toward areas I know I can get deliveries.


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## skippieejohn (10 mo ago)

Aneesur Ko Ko said:


> Uber totally scam I drive with uber nearly 4 year I quiet driving now,


If you quit driving why the hell you still on this Site?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Its a cheap jeep thing sounded better then

"Take care of your tools jeep thing"


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Ballard_Driver said:


> But it does not cost $.65 cents a mile to operate if one is doing it remotely correctly.


Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, vehicle purchase, gas, oil changes, tires etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.

Why now .65 cents a mile? Gas increases. Vehicle replacement increases.

Phone is included as I need a hotspot for Pandora etc. for pax on another SIM-less phone connected to car stereo so they can play. WiFi sometimes to pay as a foreigner with no local SIM.

Insurance is 100% coverage because I drive so much, very high chance of accident. As you know Uber copies personal insurance level when online, but without a trip. Deductible is high on Uber though, 2500 verses mine at 500.

Washing includes auto car washes and three professional details a year which they scrub the interior good. Pax love it clean and fresh. Not stinky. Also plus all the car stuff I use, window cleaner etc.

I have fancy pax. +11,000 trips 4.96-5.00. depending how many newbies or drunks I get who can't rate correctly. Candy and water.

Average $3 an hour in metered tips annualized. $10 an hour driving average profit. Not great but I do a lot volume, 18 hour days waiting, 6 offline and sleep.

Gets worse every year, more and more drivers. Soon have to get a real job. 😂.

Bye!


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Ballard_Driver said:


> But it does not cost $.65 cents a mile to operate if one is doing it remotely correctly.


Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, gas, oil changes etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.


Heisenburger said:


> *Final* numbers were provided, but not the *input* numbers used to calculate. This is the missing link.
> 
> Additionally, there's no need to disprove anything because the one making the *original* assertion must supply evidence of their calculations so that they inputs can be assessed for reasonableness.


.25 mile for gas ($5.00 per gal/20 mpg avg.) All hail Joe Biden!

.04 mile for fluids (serviced when needed, oil every two weeks sometimes.)

.02 mile for tires (divide cost by tread life, duh!)

.07 mile for cleaning (near daily auto car washes and three pro details a year) plus supplies, scents, window washer, etc.

.04 phone (full WiFi for pax, their devices, Pandora on my device to use through car stereo) also foreigner with no local SIM or issues. Yes it's used for work mainly thus a cost.

.03 insurance (100,000 miles / $2000 yr FULL coverage + 50% of Ubers $2500 deductible based upon 1 accident every 2 years)

.03 repairs ($3000/100,000 miles driven) various, alternated, fan, wheel bearings, tune ups hoses, brakes etc. A dam good mechanic is essential.

.14 vehicle cost ($40k/300k miles) Remind one that one has to save enough to pay for the vehicle they are burning out PLUS money to buy the new one (used or not) with. Plus extra for the one that underwent an accident.

.10 mile taxes (100k miles odometer/ $5,000 Fed tax, + $5,000 SSN)


Volume +11,000 pax over 3.5 years.


So now that comes up to what? .72 cents a mile now?

I didn't pay Fed taxes because of large tax credit, but did pay social security. Gas has doubled in cost so now I'm only making like 8 cents a mile profit.

Yep, really close to shutting down. 😞


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, gas, oil changes etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.
> 
> 
> .25 mile for gas ($5.00 per gal/20 mpg avg.) All hail Joe Biden!
> ...


20 mpg? You’re driving the wrong car
$2,400/yr for oil changes? I spend ~$500
$0.02 for tires? Close enough I'll give you that one
$4,200/yr for cleaning? Are you insane or OCD?
Phone is NOT a vehicle expense
$2,000/yr insurance? Mine is HALF that
Repairs? Roll the dice or buy a reliable car
$40,000 for a RS vehicle? Yep, you ARE insane
What orifice did you pull those tax numbers out of?
(Pay a few extra bucks for an accountant)


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

simtek130 said:


> Nope it’s a take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you thing.
> 
> if you use the home office deduction and keep mileage logs you don’t have to go by what Uber says, that’s way low anyway. I go by what my mileage is when I turn on your app. Or if I have to drop the wife at work or my kid at school, I go by when I finish my fill up and coffee, turn on my app and head toward areas I know I can get deliveries.


Exactly. You're supposed to keep track of your own mileage and have logs, which I have always done. You get to deduct all those miles Uber and Lyft never keep track of, so you'd have to be insane to use their numbers.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, vehicle purchase, gas, oil changes, tires etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.
> 
> Why now .65 cents a mile? Gas increases. Vehicle replacement increases.
> 
> ...


The IRS figure is based on a series of assumptions, not any given situation. Their figure averages in $90,000 Escalades owned by corporations to ferry around their executives, as well as more normal business use vehicles. It has ZERO to do with your real situation. 

When I bothered to keep close track of it my real cost per mile was low to mid $.20s a mile. Driving a van, not a fuel efficient vehicle. Now with gas it's probably high $.20s or low $.30s depending on if I have anything major break. 

My rating is 4.97 right now too, coming up on 10K rides with Uber I think 6,000 something with Lyft, and I don't do any of the frilly stuff.

I don't have a hotspot for pax, why would I? And even if I did it wouldn't be fair to consider my ENTIRE bill. Pax can have their own darn internet, it ain't my responsibility. 

I keep my car reasonably clean, but I just do basic cleaning myself. If I wasn't driving I'd maybe clean my car a little less frequently than I do now, but probably only 1 or 2 times a year less. So that's a bunk expense you also don't need. 

Again, it may be reasonable to consider the extra cost of Rideshare insurance if you get it, but not your whole insurance bill. My insurance with pretty good coverage is under $100 a month where I live. I don't pay for Rideshare insurance, which is theoretically a risk, so I wouldn't count my insurance as anything. 

If you're offering pax candy, water, constantly getting car washes and details, etc and making $10 an hour net... You have only yourself to blame. LOL In the winter where I live I usually net somewhere in the low to high $20s an hour depending on the night, but the other 9-10 months a year it's mid $20s to mid $30s an hour NET depending on the night. Obviously I have those nice $40-50 an hour nights sometimes too.

You need to stop trying to sell grass fed organic beef at McDonald's prices bro. Buy a cheap a$$ car, don't waste money on any of that other stuff, and stop considering your cell bill, insurance, etc to be Uber expenses when they're not.


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## simtek130 (Mar 12, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Its a cheap jeep thing sounded better then
> 
> "Take care of your tools jeep thing"


That’s cuz lazy asses like it that way!


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, gas, oil changes etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.
> 
> 
> .25 mile for gas ($5.00 per gal/20 mpg avg.) All hail Joe Biden!
> ...


Other than the obvious, like you counting things you shouldn't and buying waaaaaaay too expensive a car, I don't even understand where you come up with some of this stuff. $.04 a mile for fluids??? My full synth oil changes are like $90 something for 6,000 miles, so like 1.5 cents a mile. DO you flush your radiator every 2 weeks too or something ridiculous? Your math is just so off. Also, you calculate taxes off of your profit, you don't deduct it from your profit before hand. I highly doubt it's $.10 a mile after the mileage deductions, it's probably next to nothing in a low per mileage rate area. Factoring in a guaranteed car crash? Like what. You just think about everything wrong and use wrong numbers. The only expense that seems reasonable to me is $3,000 per 100K miles for repairs. 

But your biggest mistake is your choice of car and apparently spending a million bucks on cleaning. I guarantee you my $5K van will hit at least 200K miles, probably much more, but from when I bought it around 80K that's $.041 a mile.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Rideshare Dude said:


> 20 mpg? You’re driving the wrong car
> $2,400/yr for oil changes? I spend ~$500
> $0.02 for tires? Close enough I'll give you that one
> $4,200/yr for cleaning? Are you insane or OCD?
> ...


EXACTLY. This guy is doing literally everything wrong. In price sensitive businesses cost containment is the name of the game. He's overspending on literally everything and then complaining about margins. Well duh, if you spend too much on every single expense, you're not going to make much money.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Being in the burbs my mileage rate is super high to account for the longer pickups though, so still works out fine.


Same here. My figuring that I'm better off is two fold:

Suburban and rural areas really do increase the miles, *but *the miles are way gentler on the suspension, brakes, and tires, so they're "cheaper" miles.
I get the same per mile mileage deduction, so driving suburban and rural highway allows me to rack up at a faster rate than all city without beating the hell out of the suspension, brakes and tires.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> All hail Joe Biden!


Is this really your entire point? If so, it's pretty pathetic. Here's why:


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> Same here. My figuring that I'm better off is two fold:
> 
> Suburban and rural areas really do increase the miles, *but *the miles are way gentler on the suspension, brakes, and tires, so they're "cheaper" miles.
> I get the same per mile mileage deduction, so driving suburban and rural highway allows me to rack up at a faster rate than all city without beating the hell out of the suspension, brakes and tires.


I think that's pretty accurate. I have a lot more longish pickups here, but the trips are longer too. Most roads are well maintained. I get better fuel economy since moving, probably because I spend a lot of time on roads that have speed limited between 35 and 45, which is a sweet spot for my vehicle. It took me awhile to "get over" the idea of 8 and 10+ minute pickups being common, but once I just went with it I'm doing fine. I get to write off double what my real expenses are anyway, so it's kind of a tax dodge anyhow.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> Is this really your entire point? If so, it's pretty pathetic. Here's why:


In all fairness, their stupid high prices are because of their commie governments. Biden didn't "cause" the prices directly per se, but he's done a lot of things to make them worse than they would have been. The general inflation being caused by blowing trillions more than needed being a major point. Half of it is just psychological though. No oil company wants to invest when the government does nothing but talk about how they want to destroy their business.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ballard_Driver said:


> their stupid high prices are because of their commie governments


I didn't see Cuba on that chart.



Ballard_Driver said:


> No oil company wants to invest when the government does nothing but talk about how they want to destroy their business.


Interesting. I've not heard this. Are *energy* companies legally obligated to use crude oil as the sole energy source? If so, I definitely missed that nugget in college.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Ballard_Driver said:


> But it does not cost $.65 cents a mile to operate if one is doing it remotely correctly.


Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, gas, oil changes etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Exactly. You're supposed to keep track of your own mileage and have logs, which I have always done. You get to deduct all those miles Uber and Lyft never keep track of, so you'd have to be insane to use their numbers.


Exactly, the way I do it is by photographing my odometer at the end of the year and recording my rare personal miles. Deduct one from the other. Because nearly all the time I'm in business running the app. Also after a long trip the app goes off as I'm tired and going home, however those miles not being Uber recorded are valid because it's part of the same trip I wouldn't have taken otherwise. Account agrees. Why Uber says in fine print "not be used for tax purposes"


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> You would think the costs of purchasing and operating SDCs would be passed onto Uber but don't rule out the possibility of them finding ways to somehow offload the costs onto other parties like they do now to the drivers.
> 
> There's probably ways they could enter into "partnerships" with the car companies and/or other parties that would enable Uber to avoid having to purchase and maintain the SDCs.
> 
> To say Uber is cunning is a major understatement.


Maybe. But these aren't desperate drivers they will be dealing with. These will be shrewd business people that will demand they are profitable.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

suds10 said:


> he has shown it with figures, can you disprove with figures,not just words
> 
> 
> well if you intend on driving 300k for uber, you might as well get a brand new car at 40 k, getting a second hand at 10 k, will only give you a car that might last 100k miles


Exactly.

I didn't start out buying a vehicle to do Uber, rather I already paid cash $30,000/15k miles for a truck to do my maintenance business. Well I've learned my body wasn't what it used to be so I started driving a taxi doing the night sh*t, then Uber came along and I saw the market splitting and joined Uber at 100,000 miles (blue book $20,000), now have over 430,000 on her and she is still running and looking well. Could go right to the 15 year Uber limit, which will be an EXCELLENT return on investment. 

The taxi business did buy sub $10,000 (even less than that as long as it ran) vans for the taxi business and quite frankly they were pieces of sh*t, under constant repair, but they made excellent drunk tanks. Also the drivers wouldn't clean, smoked them up and drunks tear them up.

It was like dying and going to heaven getting into my nice truck after doing 12 hours in a crap taxi with no A/C so naturally I gave Uber a shot and was overwhelmed for awhile as it just got started. Not so now of course, more fish in the pond, less food.

If your market is non-tipping trash, workers etc. Lots of accidents, then yes perhaps a crap vehicle is in order and a higher vehicle turnover rate, in fact have two as one or the other is going to the shop often.

It's all what one pays per year on their vehicles and the life expectancy. So unlikely I will go another 7 more years, perhaps another 3 without a major cost that's more than 50% of the value of the vehicle now ($8,000-$10,000).

I'm currently looking for my next vehicle and getting that one set up on Uber, then use the truck as backup, but it's difficult getting something reasonably nice without it costing too much or too old for Uber.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

SJUberLyftDriver2016 said:


> 63 cents a mile and .27 per min.
> 
> gas ranges from 6.50 to 6.89.


SF is more per mile and min.


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## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

suds10 said:


> he has shown it with figures, can you disprove with figures,not just words
> 
> 
> well if you intend on driving 300k for uber, you might as well get a brand new car at 40 k, getting a second hand at 10 k, will only give you a car that might last 100k miles


Got Honda Fit brand new in 2016 for $13k. Sold it in 2018 for $8k with 80k miles. Bought a used Prius with 40k miles for $10K. Still driving it in 2022. It now has 250k miles. Still using original hybrid battery No need to spend $40k. Just make good choices in what car yiu buy


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Pays 50 cents a mile to destination. Typical cost to operate (including replacing the vehicle at $40,000 after 300,000 miles) is currently (with the $4.50 gas) about .65 cents a mile. (Current IRS tax credit is .58 cents a mile). So you lose .15 cents going there and lose .65 cents on the return trip. (Or did you plan on living in your vehicle until you got a return trip or months with a series of directional trips?) Unfortunately so many newbies get caught with that high dollar amount and drive until they burn out their vehicle or their savings. Even if one is making .20 cents a mile profit, in both directions, it's a whopping 100,000 miles (7 hours of driving a day, paid by a trip, 365 days a year) to make a measly $33,000 which the IRS takes $10,000 away for taxes and social security. For all intensive purposes, unless your in a niche area or Uber is paying enough to cover a return and .30 a mile profit, you only take directional trips, meaning you were intending to go that way anyway and just waiting for someone else who is going that way also, which on long trips could be days, weeks or even months. Every mile driven without a trip covering it your losing .65 cents. In this case it's not even doing that, just reducing it some. Uber driver income does not satisfy car loan agencies, your one accident away from becoming a rider instead. The more one drives, the more accidents occur. Take trips for cash? Your risk going to jail, being sued, fined and banned from ridesharing and blacklisted by insurance companies. Obey The Numbers, numbers don't lie. Do your math before you drive. Make .20 cents a mile profit 95% of the miles driven on vehicle and it's only about $10 an hour plus about $3 an hour in tips after costs. Surely a normal job paying over $10 an hour is better as your burning out your vehicle, risking an accident or worse. Not to mention changes in economy where no one is taking Ubers for awhile. Making a living on Uber can be done, it's very hard and requires a shrewd mind and living ground zero in a hot zone so your not baking in your vehicle all day. Good luck out there drivers!


You do realize all markets are not the same. I make between $20-25 an hour after all car expenses are taken into account. i overestimate it costs around $8 an hour to run the car. I gross $30-40 per hour.


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## Jfpwatson (9 mo ago)

skippieejohn said:


> If you quit driving why the hell you still on this Site?


...to encourage others to quit too. I did. Uber might start sharing a little more of their profits if enough drivers quit. Either that or other rideshare apps will fill the need.


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## Fawäd Mastoi (Dec 7, 2018)

Ballard_Driver said:


> The IRS figure is based on a series of assumptions, not any given situation. Their figure averages in $90,000 Escalades owned by corporations to ferry around their executives, as well as more normal business use vehicles. It has ZERO to do with your real situation.
> 
> When I bothered to keep close track of it my real cost per mile was low to mid $.20s a mile. Driving a van, not a fuel efficient vehicle. Now with gas it's probably high $.20s or low $.30s depending on if I have anything major break.
> 
> ...


Hi Ballard,

Very good observation, however, I have a few questions:
1. Do you not claim your mobile phone bill? I consider this a work expense as I can't drive without either phone or data on my mobile. The percentage might vary between 80-90% because I don't do personal outgoing calls unless I absolutely have to. Unless you are specifically talking about car expenses, if so, I 100% agree, this is a work expense, not a car expense.

2. Candy and water. I remember my very first ride back in 2016, the lady asked me if I had water, I said no, she rated me 2 stars. Since then, I have Candy and Water as I saw it as a necessity of the job rather than 'upselling'. As I only buy these for customers, I claim 100%. Again, this would be a work expense, not car.

3. Insurance: Here is Australia, they are pretty strict on Insurance, and there are two types of insurances broken down further into three types within each category:
1. CTP (Compulsory Third Party), this is mandatory, and there are fines if you're found to have no CTP.
2. Full Comprehensive.
Sub-categories:
a. Personal.
b. Personal with travelling to work.
c. Business / Rideshare / Courier etc.

\While you don't need 'ride-share' insurance if you just want to waste your money 100% on 'a' or 'b' - because your claim would be denied, the occupant(s) - driver and all passengers are always covered under our Road Transport Authority's TAC [Transport Accident Commission] program, which is included in every car's Registration and annual renewal of registration.

This basically means that if you have a CTP Insurance and have an accident, the other car, its occupants, you as an individual and your passenger(s) are covered under the CTP and TAC, but your car isn't covered. You pay over four times the amount of CTP Insurance just for your vehicle.

So, you have two options, buy CTP, which you can't claim, or go for option '2c', which is required for you to work as a rideshare driver, which would have to be claimed 100%.

4. Cleaning: Again, my accountant asked me why I was cleaning my car myself using my electricity at home and personal vacuum, which I couldn't claim. Taking his advice, I bought a handheld vacuum specifically for my car (claimed 100% on my tax) and get my car washed at the auto wash, getting it a detailed (and sanitised) couple of times every year as neither the house vacuum nor the handheld are strong enough for a deep clean. I claim these as work expenses as I wouldn't need to do them if it wasn't for my job.

5. WiFi: I agree with you to a degree, you need data for your phone to run the app, you might as well pay a little extra to get the best data plan, which means you should have enough to share with your pax if they don't have data, especially international pax who just landed in your city from overseas and don't have roaming or local sim. I don't see the reason why you would need anything other than a hot spot off your phone.


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## StOOber (Mar 19, 2016)

skippieejohn said:


> If you quit driving why the hell you still on this Site?


Many of us who drove for years and also quit years ago are so traumatized by the experience by abuse from both platforms and select passengers that we kept email alerts active here.

Right now I’m still dealing with the fallout from working for these two abusers with The IRS; made less than $5 an hour after expenses many many hours driving with them. I’d like to see some justice.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

StOOber said:


> I’d like to see some justice.


Courts of law are your only venues. Dots on a screen here is less helpful than pissing into the wind.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Vehicle was paid for and had 100,000 miles on it (from me) prior to doing Uber. With great care, and a dam good mechanic, it's now got 440,000 miles.
> 
> MIT recommends not paying more than $20,000 for an Uber vehicle and with factoring an accident is 2 x $20,000 = $40,000.
> 
> ...


On the 440K miles what maintenance and repairs have you had to have done to your truck so far ?


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> I didn't see Cuba on that chart.
> 
> 
> Interesting. I've not heard this. Are *energy* companies legally obligated to use crude oil as the sole energy source? If so, I definitely missed that nugget in college.


Of course energy companies aren't obligated to invest ONLY in oil... But if you're complaining about OIL prices, having a bunch of laws, and saying things about how you want to destroy the OIL business is certainly going to stop them from investing as much in OIL... And then you shouldn't be so surprised when oil supplies go down or at least don't go up fast enough to keep up with ever growing demand, which of course causes prices to go through the roof. It's not that complicated.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Last year the IRS tax credit was .58 cents a mile. Meaning their figures says I've already spent .58 cents a mile elsewhere and was taxed on, gas, oil changes etc. And thus isn't taxing me again.


Again, what the IRS says has ZERO to do with your actual situation. My actual costs to operate are vastly lower than $.58 a mile, if I went out and bought a brand new Mercedes as a company car it would probably be vastly higher than $.58 a mile. They allow the standard deduction as a convenience to save people extra effort calculating exact costs they can deduct, but it has nothing to do with any given persons actual expenses. It's a pretty simple concept.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Exactly, the way I do it is by photographing my odometer at the end of the year and recording my rare personal miles. Deduct one from the other. Because nearly all the time I'm in business running the app. Also after a long trip the app goes off as I'm tired and going home, however those miles not being Uber recorded are valid because it's part of the same trip I wouldn't have taken otherwise. Account agrees. Why Uber says in fine print "not be used for tax purposes"


That's actually not really the way you're supposed to do it... You're supposed to have a written log with the beginning miles, ending miles, date, and some other stuff. I keep a log book like that, as that would actually stand up in an audit. You probably never will get audited, but if you did the way you're doing it will not be accepted by the IRS. You should google the proper way to keep track of miles for business.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Fawäd Mastoi said:


> Hi Ballard,
> 
> Very good observation, however, I have a few questions:
> 1. Do you not claim your mobile phone bill? I consider this a work expense as I can't drive without either phone or data on my mobile. The percentage might vary between 80-90% because I don't do personal outgoing calls unless I absolutely have to. Unless you are specifically talking about car expenses, if so, I 100% agree, this is a work expense, not a car expense.
> ...


So a few things...

Question 1: I actually deduct my cell for a real business I have. But that's not really the point. You can deduct stuff all day long if it's legal, but my point is what you can legally deduct and what you IN YOUR HEAD should consider a real expense are not always the same. If I was going to have a $80 a month cell bill whether I drove Uber or not, and I have an $80 a month cell bill I can deduct... Sure deduct it. But in reality it's not a business expense, because I would have really had that cost anyway. I'm not spending more by doing Uber. Now if you would have been able to get away with a super cheapo $40 a month bill with limited data, but you find you have to have unlimited to do Uber that costs $80... Well then you could reasonably consider $40 a month to be a real added expense of doing Uber. See what I mean? 

2: Things were different in 2016. Expectations were higher, because they had only recently started even doing regular rides, before that it had all been black cars. Sounds like you're in Australia, so things may be different, but in the US water/candy etc is NOT standard or expected anymore. Nobody even ever asks anymore. I have people ask if I have gum once in a blue moon. But you don't need to do that stuff to have a high rating. My rating is sky high, and I do none of that. I don't think it gives you any extra tips either, because people are dumb and cheap. LOL

You may be able to write it off, but you're still spending that money... If it's not bringing you anything extra in, it's a waste. If you spend $200 to save $40 on taxes that's still a $160 waste right there.

3. Insurance is different in different countries... But it goes back to the only counting in your head the extra money you have to spend to do Uber vs what you would be paying for a personal car anyway. Again, doesn't matter what you can write off, but what is the REAL difference. I opt to not get Rideshare insurance. I think when I checked it would have been $40-60 extra a month, so I said screw it. In general you're covered in any situation where a pax is in there by Uber anyway, so it doesn't seem worth it. Any situation where there isn't a pax in there and I can just tell my insurance I was driving around running errands, they could never prove otherwise, even if they asked. 

Do what seems smart to you. But only count the difference between the regular insurance you would have had anyway and what you think you need to do Uber. That's the way to calculate what you're netting for yourself, no matter what you can or can't write off. 

4. Cleaning is the same as water/candy. You can write it off says your accountant! Accountants aren't businessmen. You're still spending money you would not have spent that is no longer in your pocket. The fact that you get to write it off doesn't make it FREE, it only saves you whatever your marginal tax rate is. So NOT WORTH IT. Again, I keep my car semi clean, but put very little effort into it. I do a half baked job a few times a year real fast, and obviously throw trash away people leave in there whenever stuff gets left. I still get "Clean Car" tags and stuff all the time from pax. So having your stuff detailed is totally not needed to have a good rating. 

5: Again, it's an expense you don't need to have, so it's a waste of money. I basically never have Pax ask if I have wifi. Like a handful of times ever. I say no, and it's over and done with. Nobody EXPECTS you to have it. Just get the amount of data you need for your own use.

The overall theme here is cost containment. McDonald's doesn't sell grass fed organic burgers for dirt cheap because they couldn't do it and turn a profit. This is a low to mid level margin business, so you need to be mindful of all expenses, and keep them as low as possible. 

There are next to free things you can do to get more tips and better ratings than all those things combined... Like drive well. And be cool, have interesting conversations. Let people use AUX or pick the radio station etc. If you want to spend money to ***** yourself out, get a dumb karaoke setup. LOL I bet those guys kill it with the tips, but I'd never wanna put up with it!


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Of course energy companies aren't obligated to invest ONLY in oil... But if you're complaining about OIL prices, having a bunch of laws, and saying things about how you want to destroy the OIL business is certainly going to stop them from investing as much in OIL... And then you shouldn't be so surprised when oil supplies go down or at least don't go up fast enough to keep up with ever growing demand, which of course causes prices to go through the roof. It's not that complicated.


Do you think there are any energy companies who weren't *already* investing in alternative energy technologies sources *prior to *the current administration?

I definitely don't. If there was one or two who wasn't I'd be surprised and would go so far to say that they're not a good LT investment.


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## KarmaKool (Dec 30, 2016)

UberPro1969 said:


> You do realize all markets are not the same. I make between $20-25 an hour after all car expenses are taken into account. i overestimate it costs around $8 an hour to run the car. I gross $30-40 per hour.


What city are you in? That's awesome...My city is horrible and drivers come from all over to drive here bc it's the biggest little city around. And I hate driving 75 miles to work in Atlanta. Last time I worked up there over 5 years ago, we were forced to do the pool crap. Never again!


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> You would think the costs of purchasing and operating SDCs would be passed onto Uber but don't rule out the possibility of them finding ways to somehow offload the costs onto other parties like they do now to the drivers.
> 
> There's probably ways they could enter into "partnerships" with the car companies and/or other parties that would enable Uber to avoid having to purchase and maintain the SDCs.
> 
> To say Uber is cunning is a major understatement.


My prediction: rideshare will become a public/private partnership where the govt provides the bottomless budget.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

KarmaKool said:


> What city are you in? That's awesome...My city is horrible and drivers come from all over to drive here bc it's the biggest little city around. And I hate driving 75 miles to work in Atlanta. Last time I worked up there over 5 years ago, we were forced to do the pool crap. Never again!


I work all of NJ. I go where the day takes me. Some markets are terrible, some great, some like mine are in between. Seems to me your market is flooded with too many drivers. And if you have to drive 75 miles to get to ATL, that cuts into your bottom line. I hate to say it, but you may need to consider a regular job. If you have a regular job and do this part time, consider a part time job. I see many here complain their market is terrible, they don’t make much, and those that post what they make, after expenses and hours worked, they are making less than minimum wage.


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## Rae (Feb 27, 2016)

UberPro1969 said:


> You do realize all markets are not the same. I make between $20-25 an hour after all car expenses are taken into account. i overestimate it costs around $8 an hour to run the car. I gross $30-40 per hour.


Whenever I hear this its because the idi....I mean robot driver... doesn't factor their time correctly from leaving home to returning.


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## PNF (Dec 2, 2018)

Discdom said:


> SF is more per mile and min.


Come drive in New York City. Although I seldom have good things to say about our Taxi and Limousine Commission it has secured competitive rates for app drivers. 1.16/mi and .52 per minute. Of course you must also have a TLC license, be drug tested every year, inspect your car three times a year, all at your expense, pay $400 surcharge on the car registration, carry very expensive (400-600 per month) liability insurance, and be subject to TLC traffic enforcement agents. 
But you get to drive in the Big Apple and contrary to reputation New Yorkers and New York visitors are big tippers to highly rated drivers.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

PNF said:


> Come drive in New York City. Although I seldom have good things to say about our Taxi and Limousine Commission it has secured competitive rates for app drivers. 1.16/mi and .52 per minute. Of course you must also have a TLC license, be drug tested every year, inspect your car three times a year, all at your expense, pay $400 surcharge on the car registration, carry very expensive (400-600 per month) liability insurance, and be subject to TLC traffic enforcement agents.
> But you get to drive in the Big Apple and contrary to reputation New Yorkers and New York visitors are big tippers to highly rated drivers.


You can keep NYC. I actually have a TLC license, I got it when I worked for a NJ limo company that did business in NYC as well. When I started Uber last year, I wanted to get a Tesla so I could work NY and NJ, was told by Uber that NJ drivers cant sign up for both markets, but NY drivers can come here. It became a mute point anyway when the TLC eliminated the Tesla as an option for TLC plates. The money is certainly great in NY, but along with everything you pointed out, theres the traffic and the bathroom availability, plentiful in NJ, not so much in NYC. When I had to take passengers there, if they didn’t give me a trip back to Jersey right away, I went back if I need to use the restroom, as I didnt pay the toll to get back to NYC.


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## PNF (Dec 2, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> You can keep NYC. I actually have a TLC license, I got it when I worked for a NJ limo company that did business in NYC as well. When I started Uber last year, I wanted to get a Tesla so I could work NY and NJ, was told by Uber that NJ drivers cant sign up for both markets, but NY drivers can come here. It became a mute point anyway when the TLC eliminated the Tesla as an option for TLC plates. The money is certainly great in NY, but along with everything you pointed out, theres the traffic and the bathroom availability, plentiful in NJ, not so much in NYC. When I had to take passengers there, if they didn’t give me a trip back to Jersey right away, I went back if I need to use the restroom, as I didnt pay the toll to get back to NYC.


All true but I believe Teslas are allowed now. In fact there’s a new company (Revel) that uses only Teslas (small ones) in an attempt to capture the Green rider. There is a hold on new TLC registrations for new applicants unless you’re putting a wheelchair accessible vehicle on the road. I always enjoy rides out of the city just to be able to park for free. I’m a New Yorker for better and worse.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

skippieejohn said:


> If you quit driving why the hell you still on this Site?


We begin by coveting what we see every day.




Chianti anyone?


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

PNF said:


> All true but I believe Teslas are allowed now. In fact there’s a new company (Revel) that uses only Teslas (small ones) in an attempt to capture the Green rider. There is a hold on new TLC registrations for new applicants unless you’re putting a wheelchair accessible vehicle on the road. I always enjoy rides out of the city just to be able to park for free. I’m a New Yorker for better and worse.


The Tesla was allowed then they took that away, only WAV now. If they brought Tesla back, that’s news to me.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> My prediction: rideshare will become a public/private partnership where the govt provides the bottomless budget.


Why would the government take on that responsibility?


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

2Cents said:


> Why would the government take on that responsibility?


The government doesn’t need to take on any responsibility. They could just pass a law that states the rideshare industry has to pay us a higher rate card than 1990 taxi rates. I would trade bonuses, quests streaks etc for a higher rate card. It should be minimum $1.50 a mile and $.50 per minute with a minimum $10 fare, even if they are going 1 block. Or continue to pay is the same rate, but pay us the miles and minutes from the second we get the ping till we drop off.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

UberPro1969 said:


> The government doesn’t need to take on any responsibility. They could just pass a law that states the rideshare industry has to pay us a higher rate card than 1990 taxi rates. I would trade bonuses, quests streaks etc for a higher rate card. It should be minimum $1.50 a mile and $.50 per minute with a minimum $10 fare, even if they are going 1 block. Or continue to pay is the same rate, but pay us the miles and minutes from the second we get the ping till we drop off.


This chart is NYC taxi rates from 1948-2012

As you can see, in most markets Uber drivers are being paid 1970s taxi rates. 1990 taxi rates are better than what we have now but they're still too low.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

UberPro1969 said:


> The government doesn’t need to take on any responsibility. They could just pass a law that states the rideshare industry has to pay us a higher rate card than 1990 taxi rates. I would trade bonuses, quests streaks etc for a higher rate card. It should be minimum $1.50 a mile and $.50 per minute with a minimum $10 fare, even if they are going 1 block. Or continue to pay is the same rate, but pay us the miles and minutes from the second we get the ping till we drop off.


Why would they do that ?


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

2Cents said:


> Why would they do that ?


They won’t do it, but they should. They will take advantage of us as long as they can. They don’t care if we leave, the turnover rate in rideshare is over 90%. Most drivers are in bad markets, they realize after a few months they are working for peanuts. The ones in good markets like myself, we’ll keep on going, because the money is decent and we work whenever we feel like it. I’m currently not willing to give up the flexibility, but the second the money is no longer decent, I’ll move in. I wouldn’t be that ant that remembers the good days and hope they return.


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## BeeBadgerGuy (8 mo ago)

Rideshare Dude said:


> 20 mpg? You’re driving the wrong car
> $2,400/yr for oil changes? I spend ~$500
> $0.02 for tires? Close enough I'll give you that one
> $4,200/yr for cleaning? Are you insane or OCD?
> ...


Hey, agree with almost all of the numbers you addressed.. but ..be kind with words. words matter.. even moreso when others are spouting. the world is hard..lots more fun making it more fun & adding smiles/warmth. You are spot on about the Other Expenses..ie, Phone, Data charges, tolls, parking are TRAVEl related but not "Car" aka "Auto" Expenses. $400 for Car Cleaning? I would never expend that kind of money to clean my car. I opt for a Car Wash which has Memberships - exterior wash is $8 with every 5th one free. I vacuum my own car as needed.. ditto for interior detailing, perhaps twice a month. I drive a 2015 CX9. it is paid for. I have incurred no othr repairs for 80,000 miles except brakes & tires & oil changes. 

I receive tips on minimum of 50% of my rides. My rating was 5.99 until the drunken friend of a drunken rider caused me problems & at end of which drunken friend slammed my left driver side rear door. They left hollering after 2 am in the morning, cursing as well - After he, a New Zealander, berated the USA for at least 10 minutes of the ride. He got pissed when I stupidly retorted that the only good things that ever came from New Zealand was Manuka Honey & Stories of the amazing New Zealand geography from Sir Edmund Hillary after he retired there! 

So... My Bad.... but it was worth the 1 star rating.


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## BeeBadgerGuy (8 mo ago)

1 Prone Uber Directive #1 
Woke is our Creed ... WOKE is our Creed... We Are Uber ... We Are WOKE.

2 Anythng or Anybody which stands or possibly could be perieved to be standing or has been said to be standing in the Way Of Woke... SHALL Be Cancelled. 

3 Drivers are neither Anything nor Anybody - they are Drivers. Therefore, they shall be cancelled for any reason which supports the CP (Corporate Paranoia) that said action may, or may be thought to have, or could be imagined to have damaged Uber. or diminished the the carefully cultivated Perception of Uber as less than the Supreme Deity & provider Source of All Good. 

So, Drivers, it is best to just live & laugh at it all . Make each Ride as fun as you are able. Life is a Journey - Enjoy your Ride.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> This chart is NYC taxi rates from 1948-2012
> 
> As you can see, in most markets Uber drivers are being paid 1970s taxi rates. 1990 taxi rates are better than what we have now but they're still too low.
> View attachment 662511
> View attachment 662511


Many markets need higher rates, no doubt about that. But I have worked in markets that have rates essentially like the 1990 taxi rates the whole time I've done it, and I think the net you make is more than fair for the job being done. I know we'd all love to make $150K a year driving idiots around, but this job isn't worth that much in the free market, it's too low skilled a job. I have the honesty to admit we don't DESERVE to make much more than $20 something to $30 something an hour, which I always have. 

One thing nobody ever mentions when doing stuff like posting the above, is that there HAVE been massive efficiencies gained by the automated dispatching by the apps. Other than having a lucky day, those taxis ran a lot more dead miles back in the day. On top of that cars got worse mileage, were less reliable, they were required to have insane insurance, etc. In other words we operate more efficiently and have lower expenses relative to back then.

So again, it all comes down to what is reasonable. Do you really think some half illiterate who can barely drive well DESERVES to be making $50, $75, $100 an hour? I don't. That's why I think rates need to go up in some of the very cheap markets, and being more in the $1.15 to $1.50 range everywhere is what is fair. I've worked at those rates, and think the compensation I made was reasonable for my work, because I KNOW it is a low skill job at the end of the day. 

Now one change I wouldn't mind everywhere, is I almost think the mileage rate should come down a tiny bit, and the per minute rate should come up a lot. This would reduce fairs on some long rides, but make it better on most others, evening out to roughly the same total pay... But it would make it more consistent vs having good $400 days and $250 dollar slow days. At the end of the day we're being paid for our time, so having more of the fair based on how long the trip takes is better than mileage IMO.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Many markets need higher rates, no doubt about that. But I have worked in markets that have rates essentially like the 1990 taxi rates the whole time I've done it, and I think the net you make is more than fair for the job being done. I know we'd all love to make $150K a year driving idiots around, but this job isn't worth that much in the free market, it's too low skilled a job. I have the honesty to admit we don't DESERVE to make much more than $20 something to $30 something an hour, which I always have.
> 
> One thing nobody ever mentions when doing stuff like posting the above, is that there HAVE been massive efficiencies gained by the automated dispatching by the apps. Other than having a lucky day, those taxis ran a lot more dead miles back in the day. On top of that cars got worse mileage, were less reliable, they were required to have insane insurance, etc. In other words we operate more efficiently and have lower expenses relative to back then.
> 
> ...


Actually it was worth doing and making good money with before Rideshare it was amazing.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Buckiemohawk said:


> Actually it was worth doing and making good money with before Rideshare it was amazing.


I'm sure it was a decent gig. To me being a pro driver, and I mean a PRO who actually drives well etc., is kind of a low end of mid-skilled thing... Hence should pay like a low end of mid skilled job. It's not flipping burgers, but it's not being an engineer either. It's not even quite being a plumber or electrician, but maybe comparable to being a house painter or one of the slightly less well paid trade jobs. 

In more expensive Uber markets that is in fact about the pay scale it tracks... So I don't see it being too far off from being fair in those markets right now. But there are the sub dollar per mile markets, and people in those areas are kinda getting screwed. It should be up to maybe $1.25-1.50 in ALL markets, and some extra expensive ones like SF, Seattle, NYC probably a bit higher. I think in that range is fair for the work being done. 

People can be mad about it all they want, but being a 21st century taxi driver we don't deserve to make $50-75+ an hour. We just don't.


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## PNF (Dec 2, 2018)

232200 said:


> The Tesla was allowed then they took that away, only WAV now. If they brought Tesla back, that’s news to me.


Not in a big way so far I keep track of Revel sighting and never see more than five per day


232200 said:


> The Tesla was allowed then they took that away, only WAV now. If they brought Tesla back, that’s news to me.


I take note of the blue Tesla Revels and seldom see more than five a day. Might even be the same one. Oh and I do see the occasion big Tesla with TLC plates. That seems a huge investment. I’ve never been more content with my car since moving from the Lincoln Town car to the Camry.


Ballard_Driver said:


> I'm sure it was a decent gig. To me being a pro driver, and I mean a PRO who actually drives well etc., is kind of a low end of mid-skilled thing... Hence should pay like a low end of mid skilled job. It's not flipping burgers, but it's not being an engineer either. It's not even quite being a plumber or electrician, but maybe comparable to being a house painter or one of the slightly less well paid trade jobs.
> 
> In more expensive Uber markets that is in fact about the pay scale it tracks... So I don't see it being too far off from being fair in those markets right now. But there are the sub dollar per mile markets, and people in those areas are kinda getting screwed. It should be up to maybe $1.25-1.50 in ALL markets, and some extra expensive ones like SF, Seattle, NYC probably a bit higher. I think in that range is fair for the work being done.
> 
> People can be mad about it all they want, but being a 21st century taxi driver we don't deserve to make $50-75+ an hour. We just don't.


In agreement except I wouldn’t ignore or dismiss the importance of professionalism in driving. For the ride’s duration we have the pax safety in our hands. When you have the pleasure of driving home a newborn and parents one (at least this one) feels that awesome responsibility most acutely. That said any pay scale is subject to what the market dictates. If one wants pay equity only a Civil Service job will do.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> I'm sure it was a decent gig. To me being a pro driver, and I mean a PRO who actually drives well etc., is kind of a low end of mid-skilled thing... Hence should pay like a low end of mid skilled job. It's not flipping burgers, but it's not being an engineer either. It's not even quite being a plumber or electrician, but maybe comparable to being a house painter or one of the slightly less well paid trade jobs.
> 
> In more expensive Uber markets that is in fact about the pay scale it tracks... So I don't see it being too far off from being fair in those markets right now. But there are the sub dollar per mile markets, and people in those areas are kinda getting screwed. It should be up to maybe $1.25-1.50 in ALL markets, and some extra expensive ones like SF, Seattle, NYC probably a bit higher. I think in that range is fair for the work being done.
> 
> People can be mad about it all they want, but being a 21st century taxi driver we don't deserve to make $50-75+ an hour. We just don't.


its not a low skilled job. If you have low skills you aint surviving this job and yes we deserve all the money we can make.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

PNF said:


> In agreement except I wouldn’t ignore or dismiss the importance of professionalism in driving. For the ride’s duration we have the pax safety in our hands. When you have the pleasure of driving home a newborn and parents one (at least this one) feels that awesome responsibility most acutely. That said any pay scale is subject to what the market dictates. If one wants pay equity only a Civil Service job will do.


Definitely. I always take it seriously, but if I'm driving people with kids around vs drunks I definitely tighten up my driving!




Buckiemohawk said:


> its not a low skilled job. If you have low skills you aint surviving this job and yes we deserve all the money we can make.


I said more like low end of mid skilled. Which I think is fair. It ain't rocket science. It's frankly less hard of work than most any trade job that pays comparably. We DO NOT deserve to make stupid money for this job. We deserve to make "okay" money. Not entry level teenager wages, but not had to get a 4 year degree (a real one, not gender studies) money or even had to do technical training to do a complicated real job, like electrician, money. The wages can and should fall somewhere between McDonalds and a better paying trade job. Which is about how it works out in many areas of the country.

Everybody wants to make as much money as they can, but some stuff is just unreasonable. If baristas made $300K a year, why would anybody go to medical school? If drivers regularly made $100K per year, why would anybody learn/do 100 other jobs that are harder? We make what we make because of a variety of reasons. If you want to make more, learn to do something that pays better. That simple.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Definitely. I always take it seriously, but if I'm driving people with kids around vs drunks I definitely tighten up my driving!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. 

The oppression of the so-called unskilled worker.
By the worker. 
For the worker.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Yes.
> 
> The oppression of the so-called unskilled worker.
> By the worker.
> For the worker.


Yup. When I was a youngin' I did a couple jobs you didn't need degrees for that were long hours/hard work... Why? Because I found it completely unacceptable to make the kind of wages some easier low skill jobs paid. I was willing to bust @$$ physically when I painted houses, and work insane hours when I did a sales job. As a result I have NEVER made minimum wage, or anywhere close to it, except for less than a year at a burger joint when I was 15/16. Actually my first job at 14 paid better than minimum wage! The burger joint was a downgrade because of scheduling stuff. 

I have no sympathy for complainers who demand beater jobs pay more than they're worth. I get it, not everybody is a genius and can go make the big bucks... But you don't have to be bright to do a lot of jobs that pay darn decent wages that you can live comfortably on. You just have to not be a lazy bum. If anybody isn't happy with what they make, look at things that pay better, and choose one you think you wouldn't mind doing and could realistically do well at. Easy. 

The lowest IQ friend of mine from HS, didn't graduate til he was 20 from being held back, makes more money than most people I went to school with. His whole family was VERY slow, but he got into construction like his dad and older brother. Eventually started his own small contracting company. He's doing well. His IQ is probably BARELY in the 80s. It might not even be 80 honestly. Super nice dude, but not a bright guy. If he can do it, nobody who isn't literally mentally handicapped has any excuses.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Seeing how you're going to have to come back empty because there was very little chance of getting a ride back, will be 27 cents a mile.

4 hours worth of driving time at least

Did I mention gas was average $4.89 a gallon?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

dauction said:


> Look you can buy a Brandnew Chevy Bolt for 25K ..and get upto 280 miles range in the City for $8


Even with an EV, you still are getting ye ol shaft


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)




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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Definitely. I always take it seriously, but if I'm driving people with kids around vs drunks I definitely tighten up my driving!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YOU ARE RISKING YOUR LIFE AND YOUR CAR DOING THIS JOB YOU DESERVE TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE WITH YOUR OWN VEHICLE. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT YOU DESERVE TO GET PAID WELL FOR WHAT THIS JOB ENTITLES GET OUT OF HERE. GET OFF THE APPS. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Definitely. I always take it seriously, but if I'm driving people with kids around vs drunks I definitely tighten up my driving!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think that we need to be making $100,000 a year after expenses.

We do need to be pulling $60 or so before expenses.

Using my own car for this gig, an industry standard vehicle for the market. (Toyota minivan) my expenses where over $25,000 a year. Grand total including fuel, commercial insurance, ect.


Well let's do this backwords, what's a fair pay for this work?

Let's call it 50 hours a week.

And this is a job that an 18 year old shouldn't be doing. +$2.00 an hour, also no benifits paid doing this type of work as an IC. That's my justifcation for $2.00 an hour extra.

It's not a skilled trade but it's not an afterschool highschool job either. And you have to give them a premium for working weird ass hours to.

Medical staff get an extra $2.00 an hour for working overnight shifts. That's _reality. _So do night shift security guards ect.



So you have to take the min wage (in my market min wage is $11.00 an hour)

Which means with the lack of benifits doing this as an IC, and working weird hours we need to be making about _$15.00 an hour._


$15.00 an hour times 50 hours a week is $750.


$750 times 50 weeks a year is $37,500 
+ $25,000 for expenses
$62,500

In my market it's closer to zero thanks to dog shit rates and soaring expenses. Uber/lyft drivers probobly spin their wheels and trade their equity in their vehicle for shit money and then end up super in the hole when major expenses happen.

But, in my market... "acceptable" pay for 50 hours a week is $1,250 a week, and $500 a week in expenses.

Reality is that it's closer to $500 a week with $500 in expenses.


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## PNF (Dec 2, 2018)

Peeps, do we do this because of the pay or because of the flexibility. I’m sure many of you like me are actors, is there a better “day job” for taking auditions or performing. If you book an acting gig do you have to square it with a boss or get someone to cover your shift. No you drive yourself to the location and have fun.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 663374


Rates like that are the kind of rates that need to come up to more like in my area! I'm not saying it isn't bunk in some spots, but in many parts of the country it is already fair.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Buckiemohawk said:


> YOU ARE RISKING YOUR LIFE AND YOUR CAR DOING THIS JOB YOU DESERVE TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE WITH YOUR OWN VEHICLE. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT YOU DESERVE TO GET PAID WELL FOR WHAT THIS JOB ENTITLES GET OUT OF HERE. GET OFF THE APPS. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.


As I have already said in many places, like literally my last post, I don't think rates are fair in many locations. But it is location dependent. I have worked in 2 broad markets, and both of them paid rates that were pretty darn decent. Would slightly more have been cool? Sure. But not much more. We don't deserve to be making programmer money or something dude. This isn't flipping burgers, but don't delude yourself into thinking this is some kind of fancy, high skilled, high paid type of job. It isn't. 

If you work a job where somebody can come in and learn how to do the basics of doing it in a few days or few weeks, that kind of job will not pay well... Because reality. Anything with that little training required means any idiots can do it, and with such a vast potential labor pool wages will simply never be that high. It's just the market at work.

I think I'm already paid reasonably for the work I do. Frankly, compared to what many other jobs, I think it's borderline overpaid where I drive now. I make better money than lots of people with "real" jobs. Like NURSES that don't have a lot of time on the job. That is absurd to me. Mind you after benefits, it's probably more like parity or with them slightly ahead, but still.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I don't think that we need to be making $100,000 a year after expenses.
> 
> We do need to be pulling $60 or so before expenses.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm glad you don't think $100K a year, because the average driver doesn't.

I grossed $650ish bucks on Friday and Saturday night. I have a bit of commute, but actual working hours in the market where I work was under 20. Nowadays I only work those days, but used to do more in previous years. Totally fair IMO, even after expenses. Again, it's all market based. The sub $1 a mile markets need to come up, but many places are fine as is. 

I still have NO CLUE how you people manage to have such high expenses. If you do you're doing it wrong. My expenses are like less than half what you're claiming. You must have overpaid for a car, and are probably overpaying for insurance, maybe maintenance too. It's ok if you made a mistake in buying bad initially, or just started using what you have... But you should fix it going forward. My nice loaded van cost me $5k! If I blew it up tomorrow with dynamite, having probably 100K+ mile usable life left on it still, I would still not come ANYWHERE NEAR the kind of expenses you're talking about.

Like I told the earlier delusional cost guy, you can't sell organic grass fed burgers at McDonald's prices. Cost containment is literally issue number one with doing this work. If you screw up on that you're really going to hurt yourself day in, day out, until you get a new car.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

PNF said:


> Peeps, do we do this because of the pay or because of the flexibility. I’m sure many of you like me are actors, is there a better “day job” for taking auditions or performing. If you book an acting gig do you have to square it with a boss or get someone to cover your shift. No you drive yourself to the location and have fun.


Yup. That's the sole reason I do this stuff in my spare time. That is a MASSIVE perk that a lot of people just wave off as not mattering. But it's one of the biggest selling points frankly. People also seem to not get the whole thing was originally designed ot be part timers. If you want to make a full time gig out of part time work, fine. But don't complain about the fact that it;s not tailored to the idea of somebody doing it full time. The way it is works perfectly well for TONS of people, if it doesn't work for you go do something else.


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Rates like that are the kind of rates that need to come up to more like in my area! I'm not saying it isn't bunk in some spots, but in many parts of the country it is already fair.


So tired of these wretched shills sent by Uber onto this forum to try to whitewash the shameless exploitation and criminally low rates with the excuses of "this was only meant to be a part-time gig" or even worse "I don't even deserve what you pay me." Get off the forum and peddle your corporate puff-job somewhere else, we ain't buying it.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Raleigh to Charlotte, 8 miles to pu, 172 mile trip, $112.37
Someone snatched that on radar faster than I could take a screen shot.

Oh, and I've also seen Raleigh to Richmond VA, 177 miles total for $118.89 (and you can't PU in VA)

It seems that even in this day and age you can't fix stupid.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Lord Summerisle said:


> So tired of these wretched shills sent by Uber onto this forum to try to whitewash the shameless exploitation and criminally low rates with the excuses of "this was only meant to be a part-time gig" or even worse "I don't even deserve what you pay me." Get off the forum and peddle your corporate puff-job somewhere else, we ain't buying it.


Hate to break it to you bud, but I'm a real person, who has been driving Uber and Lyft in my spare time for coming up on 7 years. Uber and Lyft money helped me buy my first house, and less than 2 years later I just bought my first investment property the other day. Not everybody on here is an idiot, some of us understand how the real world and economy work.

Not every job was meant to support a family of 4 in a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs dude. The entire fast food industry was designed around the idea of having cheap teenage labor sling food for cheap. 50 year olds that sit there and complain because they don't make $60K a year slinging burgers are just morons. It was never meant for that, and isn't sustainable if it paid such wages. 

Likewise, Uber and Lyft were designed around a concept of people making side cash... It isn't their fault that some people decided they would try to make their full time living at it. Many other "gig" economy companies work on the same premise. I don't think "we trade flexibility for meh wages and no benefits" is a horrible model... Because it WORKS for a lot of people. I never would have taken on a "real" job, and my life would have been far worse without doing U/L in my spare time. It straight bailed me out of a few rough patches too, in addition to helping me move forward far faster than I would have been able to otherwise.

Frankly, in many parts of the country YOU CAN make a good full time living at it. I drove in Seattle, and now do it in Idaho. Both places, but especially Seattle, you can make as good a living at it as a job of this skill level deserves. A couple of the Seattle drivers I used to talk to NETTED over $100K a year consistently year after year. They did Lux/Black/Premium/XL/Etc though. They're the exception, but $50-70K net was reasonable for a mediocre driver with just a small amount of common sense. 

I have already said SEVERAL TIMES that I DO NOT agree with Uber and Lyft in markets where they pay sub $1 per mile to drivers. I DO think that is unfair, and unreasonable. I think it needs to be over a buck a mile everywhere, no matter how low the cost of living is, and probably quite a lot over $1 a mile in some spots that are expensive to live, have spread out fares, etc. Just because I have the sense to see things for what they are doesn't make me a shill. 

I'll tell any unhappy Uber driver the same thing I'd tell an unhappy grown @$$ adult working at McDonald's: If you're not happy with your job, with your pay, etc then go figure out another job where the pay is better and you'll like the overall situation more. It's that simple.

I think people should stop driving in the super low rate markets until they raise rates there to something more fair... But in many places it already IS fair. So for those drivers they have nothing to complain about IMO.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Raleigh to Charlotte, 8 miles to pu, 172 mile trip, $112.37
> Someone snatched that on radar faster than I could take a screen shot.
> 
> It seems that even in this day and age you can't fix stupid.


See, in either of the markets I've driven in, that would be like a $250 fair. Probably more. THAT is pretty much robbery on their part. People in markets like that really do need to wise up. If people just stopped driving, the rates would have to go up to draw people in.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> See, in either of the markets I've driven in, that would be like a $250 fair. Probably more. THAT is pretty much robbery on their part. People in markets like that really do need to wise up. If people just stopped driving, the rates would have to go up to draw people in.


But people dont know and drive for those criminally low rates and you should she how much a trip to Tamp pays from Orlando


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

232200 said:


> The government doesn’t need to take on any responsibility. They could just pass a law that states the rideshare industry has to pay us a higher rate card than 1990 taxi rates. I would trade bonuses, quests streaks etc for a higher rate card. It should be minimum $1.50 a mile and $.50 per minute with a minimum $10 fare, even if they are going 1 block. Or continue to pay is the same rate, but pay us the miles and minutes from the second we get the ping till we drop off.


That is part of the public piece. I envision a Medicare portion (U/L are already providing overflow rides here) and the creation of a rideshare commission; likely an off shoot of the limo/taxi commission. 

Just my prediction for post-bankruptcy rideshare. The coming deep recession will force rideshare to transform or die. Neither company will be publicly traded by the next Inauguration Day. 

Can’t rule out a white knight or a dumb CEO that buys a company and prolongs the bleeding. But neither Uber nor Lyft will profit as stand alone entities.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Oh, and I've also seen Raleigh to Richmond VA, 177 miles total for $118.89 (and you can't PU in VA)


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## Erik M (Sep 30, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 660871


Holy shit!!!


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## Erik M (Sep 30, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Well this is the problem, the Uber rating system is set up to satisfy riders. The more satisfied, the more and higher tipping fares one gets. So pax like newer looking, shiny vehicles. It's a sign your successful like they are, they tip well.
> 
> 
> Plus there is a 15 year time limit on vehicles, so one just can't go out and get a decent, but cheap/old enough, used SUV. Vans are cheap crap, their sliders break often when they get older.
> ...


I got a 17 Ford Flex just hit 205,000k. Bought it with 217 miles on it. Use it to commute to my full time job than get off and do Uber on weekends and sometimes during the week depending on whether or not the wife pisses me off and I need to get out of the house!


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## UberSux25 (7 mo ago)

Rideshare Dude said:


> You are spreading misinformation. It does not COST $0.65 per mile to operate a rideshare vehicle. If it does, you are doing something horribly wrong.


LOL keep telling yourself that. Pretty common knowledge unless you’re driving an absolute beater then enjoy looking poor and making $9/hr profit 😂


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

UberSux25 said:


> LOL keep telling yourself that. Pretty common knowledge unless you’re driving an absolute beater then enjoy looking poor and making $9/hr profit 😂


Costs .72 cents a mile now, this includes insurance, phone and taxes. (IRS vehicle alone is now .62 a mile). Driver needs to make .20 cents an ODOMETER mile or better to make a profit and continue, savings towards replacement vehicles Less and one is burning out their present vehicle and will soon be broke.

Simple formula, set ones odometer trip meter and at the end of the day the total rideshare amount, including tips, should exceed the trip meter amount. If not your doing it wrong. If you can't adjust, then find a real job before your becoming an Uber rider instead of a driver.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

UberSux25 said:


> LOL keep telling yourself that. Pretty common knowledge unless you’re driving an absolute beater then enjoy looking poor and making $9/hr profit 😂


Either you are not an actual Uber driver or you have no idea how to calculate your cost.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Costs .72 cents a mile now, this includes insurance, phone and taxes. (IRS vehicle alone is now .62 a mile). Driver needs to make .20 cents an ODOMETER mile or better to make a profit and continue, savings towards replacement vehicles Less and one is burning out their present vehicle and will soon be broke.
> 
> Simple formula, set ones odometer trip meter and at the end of the day the total rideshare amount, including tips, should exceed the trip meter amount. If not your doing it wrong. If you can't adjust, then find a real job before your becoming an Uber rider instead of a driver.


It does not “COST” $.72 per mile. That is the Federal tax deduction. They are two entirely different things. Either you are not an Uber driver or you have no idea how to calculate your cost.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberSux25 said:


> LOL keep telling yourself that. Pretty common knowledge unless you’re driving an absolute beater then enjoy looking poor and making $9/hr profit 😂


If I could make $9.00 an hour in profit I might consider ubering more.


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## ksnake (Nov 8, 2020)

That's a great deal. I had something like that with my last car but someone driving a Hertz rental car totaled it. Good news is with the rise of value of used cars and that I was freaking with Hertz and had video in my case I made out and got paid quickly. I got a hybrid but I didn't get nearly the deal I had before but I needed a car anyway.


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## lxlsamiamlxl (Nov 20, 2021)

Today was great success!! 🙄 (all were declines, obviously...)


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