# Here is how to calculate your cost per mile.



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

*This post is for*

People who own an insured personal vehicle and will drive additional miles on that vehicle for rideshare
*This post is not for*

People who think that the IRS deduction ($.535/mile) equals the cost of operating a personal vehicle for rideshare, irrespective of what that vehicle is (e.g. 2009 Elantra = $.535, 2017 Panamera = $.535, etc.)
People who think their only cost to drive a vehicle for rideshare is gas because they "own it anyway"
*To calculate the total cost per mile for your vehicle, sum the following items*.

Gas
Cost per gallon in your city divided by your MPG

Maintenance
_Tires_ - cost of new set of tires installed divided by miles you expect out of a set
_Oil_ - cost oil change divided by miles per oil change
_Brakes_ - cost of brake set divided by miles per change
_Other_ - Above is typical; you may have additional items, such as coolant, required at scheduled intervals--refer to your manual for what needs to be done and at what interval

Repairs
Estimated dollars spent divided by miles. Increases with size/price of vehicle and vehicle age.

Depreciation

Go to kbb.com
Under _Car Values_ select _Trade-in & Private Party Values_
Enter the details of your car and current mileage.
Repeat step 3 with your car and 1000 additional miles
Divide the difference in $ from step 4 by 1000 to calculate depreciation per mile

Insurance
If you are paying for additional rideshare insurance, add this cost as well

*Example with a 2012 Toyota Camry, LE 4 cylinder, 70k miles*

Gas
$2.70/28 = 9.6 cents/mile

Maintenance
_Tires_ - $450/30,000 miles = 1.3 cents/mile
_Oil_ - $40/10,000 miles = .4 cents/mile
_Brakes_ - $600/70,000 miles = .9 cents/mile

Repairs
At this age the car generally won't need many repairs, but that has to be averaged against the small, but increasing change of a catastrophic repair item. Edmunds TCO predicts $2337 over following 75,000 miles on this vehicle (https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2012/st-101403728/cost-to-own/) = 3.1 cents/mile

Depreciation
4.2 cents/mile¹

Insurance
For this example we'll go with Uber and Lyft's insurance, and skip having any phase 1 collision/comprehensive

*Total*
19.5 cents / mile to drive a 2012 Camry LE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
¹ Edmunds doesn't share KBB's projection on depreciation per mile. It shows depreciation in the 7.5-8 cents/mile range, which would bring this car's running costs up to ~23 cents/mile.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> *This post is for*
> 
> People who own an insured personal vehicle and will drive additional miles on that vehicle for rideshare
> *This post is not for*
> ...


There's something your not accounting for,

the overall quality of the interior can have a huge impact on the value of a car, Using a car for uber will just overall wear things out that normally wouldn't get worn out... After 200,000 miles it shows..

Smell has a huge impact on it's resale value. Taxis build up a particular smell.. There's some of the company taxis i drive that have their own unique smell that i recognize by car. Using a car as a taxi, it will get it's own special funk over time, this will reduce the value.

Using a car as a taxi will take a HUGE toll on the interior of a car. Most high mileage cars have interior wear in exactly one seat, the driver seat. A used car dealer can swap in a replacement drivers seat and it will bump up the overall condition of a car's interior SEVERAL NOTCHES.. Poor to fair, fair to good, ect... You can't make that quick easy fix with a used taxi due to the overall wear and tear.

It's also only a matter of time until a car being used to uber end up on the car-fax report... It's ONLY A MATTER OF TIME... and it's 100% relevant to the car's resale value.

You know what else effects your resale value?

Sketchy service records... UberX and sketchy service records go together like Wetdog smell and wet dogs..

A car that has extensively been used for uber, well, it's probably not the poster child for good condition.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/buying-selling/kelley-blue-book4.htm

after a couple years, which will REALLY apply to an uber car?

Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, _*the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes*_, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.


*Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition*. This vehicle has a clean Title History, _*the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional*_. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.


Poor condition means that the vehicle has_* severe mechanical and/or cosmetic defects and is in poor running condition.*_ The vehicle may have problems that cannot be readily fixed such as a damaged frame or a rusted-through body. A vehicle with a branded title (salvage, flood, etc.) or unsubstantiated mileage is considered "poor." A vehicle in poor condition may require an independent appraisal to determine its value.

After 3.5 years my 3.5 year old Sienna scored a poor AKA "where not going to give you an estimate it's such a piece of %(%"

That assessment lowered it's value relative to it's total Mileage by about $8,000.
It needed more engine work done than the car was worth if it was in fair condition (which it wasn't... believe me)

Baby an uber car, you'll be LUCKY to get fair, with good being an impossible dream, and a car with a blown engine coming in at poor. Let's face it, if you blow the engine on a car with 200,000+ miles your not going to fix it.


----------



## UberDez (Mar 28, 2017)

Nice this is a good guide for the novice driver . I've done this same calculation for all of my cars . The two I drive the most have the following per mile estimated cost

2013 Ford Explorer Limited 31 cents a mile 
2010 Audi A4 Avant 27 cents a mile 

I save a good amount of money by doing 95% of my own work and having lots of connections on parts, tires, mounting and rotation 

My depreciation will be pretty in line with kbb but I usually sell my uber cars after a year . .. My last car a 2015 Passat I drove for almost 70k miles and I only lost $1,500 on it , I usually buy my cars well under trade in value . By splitting my ride share usage on multiple cars (4 different cars ) I don't add crazy miles to any of them also by doing mostly premium rides I don't do a lot of rides . To make a $1,000 net I usually only need to give 20-25 rides 

But even at these numbers it's almost impossible to make money in these types of cars on UberX which is why I almost exclusively do premium type rides only . If you're doing UberX you really need a car that costs under 18cents a mile to make base fares worth it . Buying a car with little to no depreciation (2004 ish Toyota or Honda for under $2500) and selling it after 40-50k miles is the way to go


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

All excellent posts, so far. It should be required reading by all drivers.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberDezNutz said:


> If you're doing UberX you really need a car that costs under 18cents a mile to make base fares worth it . Buying a car with little to no depreciation (2004 ish Toyota or Honda for under $2500) and selling it after 40-50k miles is the way to go


18c isn't low enough in Orlando...
(yes a 2 unpaid to 1 paid mile is realy what it is... too much of going 2 miles to take someone one, driving out to the boondocks making $14 then having to turn right back around if you ever want to get a trip..

with 18c a mile in costs my long time average of 2 unpaid per paid mile puts me at 54c PER PAID mile in costs with 53c per paid mile plus 8c per paid minute in revenue.

54c per paid mile in costs to 61-69c per paid mile in revenue (60 or 30 MPH) Putting your MAXIMUM per HOUR profit margin on X fares

DUH DUH DUH....

-1c per paid mile + 8c per minute, or

60 highway miles is... $4.20 in profit

30 city miles in one hour is... $4.50 in profit

Sitting parked is $4.80 in profit


----------



## UberDez (Mar 28, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 18c isn't low enough in Orlando...
> (yes a 2 unpaid to 1 paid mile is realy what it is... too much of going 2 miles to take someone one, driving out to the boondocks making $14 then having to turn right back around if you ever want to get a trip..
> 
> with 18c a mile in costs my long time average of 2 unpaid per paid mile puts me at 54c PER PAID mile in costs with 53c per paid mile plus 8c per paid minute in revenue.
> ...


I normally net over a BUCK a MILE including dead miles (but again I do select/XL/Premier/ Plus and X)

But I definitely don't have an equal dead to live miles , I'd say for every 10 miles I drive getting paid I've driven 13 miles . But I usually don't drive anywhere I wait to get my first ride from my house or spot a couple blocks away , I usually end my day when I get a ride near my house (I live in a downtown area) so my examples might be worthless. Also Denvers rates are much higher than Orlando I remember from taking Ubers in Orlando and Tampa and just being shocked at how cheap the rides were


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberDezNutz said:


> I normally net over a BUCK a MILE including dead miles (but again I do select/XL/Premier/ Plus and X)
> 
> But I definitely don't have an equal dead to live miles , I'd say for every 10 miles I drive getting paid I've driven 13 miles . But I usually don't drive anywhere I wait to get my first ride from my house or spot a couple blocks away , I usually end my day when I get a ride near my house (I live in a downtown area) so my examples might be worthless. Also Denvers rates are much higher than Orlando I remember from taking Ubers in Orlando and Tampa and just being shocked at how cheap the rides were


I'd kill for 10/13 miles being paid, Heck i'd kill for half...

Orlando is about 3 miles driven to 1 mile paid. That's my long term decades long average. I WISH i had equal paid to dead miles.

I'm barely at $1.00 per mile charging taxi rates in a taxi... ($2.40 per mile)
The last taxi shift i worked i drove 250 miles and had $275 in revenue. Or about $1.10

The HIGHEST service uber does in Orlando is $1.71 per mile, and i'm not spending $30,000+ on a used select car to make $1.71 a mile on a fraction of the trips, and .53 or .90 on the rest.

As to why the ratios are so bad, there's a lot of reasons for that. You'll never load at the airport between 4:00 AM and 10:00 AM but the odds of going there is really high.. You look at Orlando and it's a process of filling and emptying a few dozen addresses and that's a large % of the for-hire industry here. No one goes to the magic kingdom 1 hour before close, hundreds of fares come out.. driving empty downtown at night to load, driving empty from downtown in the morning.. Driving empty from the airport in the morning, driving empty to the airport in the evening to wait...

Pretty much only the hood has fares 24/7... I'm just being honest LOL

Also no one lives in the tourist area, no one...
So more dead empty miles...


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

I think since Mr. Chrome did such a good job breaking down the cost to drive a personal car for rideshare, he should develop a formula to determine the expected income, including number of rides per hour for every market.


----------



## UberDez (Mar 28, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I'd kill for 10/13 miles being paid, Heck i'd kill for half...
> 
> Orlando is about 3 miles driven to 1 mile paid. That's my long term decades long average. I WISH i had equal paid to dead miles.
> 
> ...


Denver is a pretty solid place for rideshare with how far the airport is from the city . Also rates are decent (compared to say Orlando) Last week I netted $1270 (after deducting tolls and fuel) with 905 miles driven and 44 hours so $1.40 a mile . Today alone I worked 7 hours I made $347 after tolls and only drove 207 miles so today was $1.67 a miles

I usually don't accept rides over 3 miles away and I'd say the majority are under a mile a way , I usually park and wait for rides . I try to do as little X/Pool as I can and just focus on XL/Select , Lyft Premier and Plus .


----------



## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

I did a quick and dirty estimate for my 2010 Optima: $.25/mile.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

bsliv said:


> I think since Mr. Chrome did such a good job breaking down the cost to drive a personal car for rideshare, he should develop a formula to determine the expected income, including number of rides per hour for every market.


If Uber would provide me read-access to their database I'm happy to write some queries


----------



## wb6vpm (Mar 27, 2016)

My CPM is approximately $0.22 per mile (some items were guesstimates on pricing)


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberDezNutz said:


> Denver is a pretty solid place for rideshare with how far the airport is from the city . Also rates are decent (compared to say Orlando) Last week I netted $1270 (after deducting tolls and fuel) with 905 miles driven and 44 hours so $1.40 a mile . Today alone I worked 7 hours I made $347 after tolls and only drove 207 miles so today was $1.67 a miles
> 
> I usually don't accept rides over 3 miles away and I'd say the majority are under a mile a way , I usually park and wait for rides . I try to do as little X/Pool as I can and just focus on XL/Select , Lyft Premier and Plus .


Your getting solid numbers in Denver, i could make it work with that. The problem is spending 10 hours on uber, driving 200 miles and only having $110-120.

Last night i did a taxi shift... $250 with $90 in expenses, $160 profit

230 miles
78 were paid.
20 fares total.

$1.08 per driven mile.


----------



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Why state agencies responsible for TNC regulations don't require Uber/Lyft to notify all new drivers and all drivers once a year of the average per mile cost and how to figure out Net Profits is beyond me.

This should be averages by markets and vehicle classes. And then numbers not internally "made up" by Uber/Lyft but generated by an independent accounting/audit company specializing in the Transportation Industry.

Just basic common sense regulations the government should be on top off.


----------



## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

SCdave said:


> Why state agencies responsible for TNC regulations don't require Uber/Lyft to notify all new drivers and all drivers once a year of the average per mile cost and how to figure out Net Profits is beyond me.
> 
> This should be averages by markets and vehicle classes. And then numbers not internally "made up" by Uber/Lyft but generated by an independent accounting/audit company specializing in the Transportation Industry.
> 
> Just basic common sense regulations the government should be on top off.


Because Uber/Lyft and other rideshare cos. are simply app providers, not transportation cos. Don't you read the legal determinations?


----------



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Over/Uber said:


> Because Uber/Lyft and other rideshare cos. are simply app providers, not transportation cos. Don't you read the legal determinations?


I know, I know, my bad. I've been diagnosed with a serious reading and comprehension problem.

Believe it is called something like "Dontbelieveeverhthingyoureadinatosisthelawitis".


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

SCdave said:


> Why state agencies responsible for TNC regulations don't require Uber/Lyft to notify all new drivers and all drivers once a year of the average per mile cost and how to figure out Net Profits is beyond me.
> 
> This should be averages by markets and vehicle classes. And then numbers not internally "made up" by Uber/Lyft but generated by an independent accounting/audit company specializing in the Transportation Industry.
> 
> Just basic common sense regulations the government should be on top off.


Probably for the same reason these agencies do not advertise the fact that their insurance is pretty bad; that when you're driving looking for a ping you have zero collision insurance. Oh, they don't "hide it", but most people read "I have insurance with them, I'm good." Devil in the details.

*UberDezNutz* per mile is over twice what I can get in my market (I drive Xl). I'm sure that in time denver will be flooded as the race to the bottom continues.


----------



## UberDez (Mar 28, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> *UberDezNutz* per mile is over twice what I can get in my market (I drive Xl). I'm sure that in time denver will be flooded as the race to the bottom continues.


Denver is already over saturated with drivers look at stop light and if there are 10 cars 7 of them will have uber or lyft signage . I do well because of my placement, patience , and strategy . It also helps immensely that I live in a high demand area with a lot of wealthy people so select is actually pretty good for long Select airport rides (Avg pay from Denver to DIA on Select is $60+) the biggest thing is Lyft Power Zone all the time of 30-100% during the busy morning commute (Snagged regular $100+ Airport runs with Premier and Plus request attached to PZ )


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> *This post is for*
> 
> People who own an insured personal vehicle and will drive additional miles on that vehicle for rideshare
> *This post is not for*
> ...


New calculations need to be worked out for a Tesla.


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Your calculations on kbb are saying that your depreciation is linear and always the same. But from 50k miles to 60k miles should be more depreciation than 200k miles to 210k miles.
If anyone has a graphic calculator, plot on the graph many points at every 10000 miles and pull a polynomial equation. Then use that equation to get a rate of change at two different points. That would be more accurate. If people are interested I can give a step by step with pictures.

Also I would add 5% for extra things like phone accessories and other stuff

I got rear ended and had to pay some kind of bs claim fee on top of my deductible. So it doesn't hurt to round up and add a few more pennies.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> Your calculations on kbb are saying that your depreciation is linear and always the same. But from 50k miles to 60k miles should be more depreciation than 200k miles to 210k miles.


Absolutely right. Different sources figure depreciation in different ways. You could run through edmunds as well with the true market value calculator.


----------



## ReyesMX6 (Dec 31, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Absolutely right. Different sources figure depreciation in different ways. You could run through edmunds as well with the true market value calculator.


Actually the failure is in the lack of a time line of depreciation. The factoring of the valuation of a vehicle on one specific day using just miles isn't the same as the valuation of the vehicle over a month or a year. They both factor into the value of a vehicle, or the depreciation of it.

You are checking the value of a vehicle on a specific day, e.g. January 1, 2017, then keep adding miles to attempt to calculate depreciation. Doing this makes it linear because the miles increase and the reduction in value of the vehicle on that day is steady for the adjustment in mileage. However, time is also a factor in valuation of a vehicle. A vehicles value over time depreciates, so from January to June your vehicle value isn't the same either, even if it has the same, less or more miles. In order to calculate this you would have to actually track your vehicles value on a weekly or monthly basis and just subtract your vehicles value over that time with all your mileage versus what the value would be had you not driven for rideshare. Value the vehicle on 1/1 of the year and track it through to 12/31. There isn't a need for complex math equations, just simple math and a lot of record keeping.


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

ReyesMX6 said:


> Actually the failure is in the lack of a time line of depreciation. The factoring of the valuation of a vehicle on one specific day using just miles isn't the same as the valuation of the vehicle over a month or a year. They both factor into the value of a vehicle, or the depreciation of it.
> 
> You are checking the value of a vehicle on a specific day, e.g. January 1, 2017, then keep adding miles to attempt to calculate depreciation. Doing this makes it linear because the miles increase and the reduction in value of the vehicle on that day is steady for the adjustment in mileage. However, time is also a factor in valuation of a vehicle. A vehicles value over time depreciates, so from January to June your vehicle value isn't the same either, even if it has the same, less or more miles. In order to calculate this you would have to actually track your vehicles value on a weekly or monthly basis and just subtract your vehicles value over that time with all your mileage versus what the value would be had you not driven for rideshare. Value the vehicle on 1/1 of the year and track it through to 12/31. There isn't a need for complex math equations, just simple math and a lot of record keeping.


True that's a good point. Yeah the complex equations are not necessary but my nerd a*s cannot help it. They are slightly more accurate though. But yeah I will look to do that later on about the time depreciation to get a more accurate number.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

ReyesMX6 said:


> Actually the failure is in the lack of a time line of depreciation. The factoring of the valuation of a vehicle on one specific day using just miles isn't the same as the valuation of the vehicle over a month or a year. They both factor into the value of a vehicle, or the depreciation of it.
> 
> You are checking the value of a vehicle on a specific day, e.g. January 1, 2017, then keep adding miles to attempt to calculate depreciation. Doing this makes it linear because the miles increase and the reduction in value of the vehicle on that day is steady for the adjustment in mileage. However, time is also a factor in valuation of a vehicle. A vehicles value over time depreciates, so from January to June your vehicle value isn't the same either, even if it has the same, less or more miles. In order to calculate this you would have to actually track your vehicles value on a weekly or monthly basis and just subtract your vehicles value over that time with all your mileage versus what the value would be had you not driven for rideshare. Value the vehicle on 1/1 of the year and track it through to 12/31. There isn't a need for complex math equations, just simple math and a lot of record keeping.


yep this was my original approach but I didn't want to overly complicate it, even though it's technically better.

In my own case I anticipated keeping my car 3 more years and putting X miles on. With uber if I keep it 3 years with X miles, I actually compared my vehicle (which is a 2013 model) to what a 2010 would be worth today with the personal miles vs the uber miles. This way I teased out both the mileage on depreciation and also the age.


----------



## UberDez (Mar 28, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> yep this was my original approach but I didn't want to overly complicate it, even though it's technically better.
> 
> In my own case I anticipated keeping my car 3 more years and putting X miles on. With uber if I keep it 3 years with X miles, I actually compared my vehicle (which is a 2013 model) to what a 2010 would be worth today with the personal miles vs the uber miles. This way I teased out both the mileage on depreciation and also the age.


Just make sure the years are the same. Even with face-lift or sometimes just a year they fix a problem. 2010 might have x problem that they addressed for the 2011 hence while the 2010 (example only) sells for so much less


----------



## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> yep this was my original approach but I didn't want to overly complicate it, even though it's technically better.
> 
> In my own case I anticipated keeping my car 3 more years and putting X miles on. With uber if I keep it 3 years with X miles, I actually compared my vehicle (which is a 2013 model) to what a 2010 would be worth today with the personal miles vs the uber miles. This way I teased out both the mileage on depreciation and also the age.


That's pretty clever. I'm about to do that when I have free time. I usually reset trip miles every day to see how many miles I put vs how much I make. I try to average over 20 an HR this way when I count the depreciation and cost I get over 13 an HR. I have realized that when I work the airport I put a lot more miles than working the city. It gets pretty complicated at times trying to put less miles and make more money. And to think some people have 20,000 dollar vehicles working uberx. That's a horrible way to do Uber.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> That's pretty clever. I'm about to do that when I have free time. I usually reset trip miles every day to see how many miles I put vs how much I make. I try to average over 20 an HR this way when I count the depreciation and cost I get over 13 an HR. I have realized that when I work the airport I put a lot more miles than working the city. It gets pretty complicated at times trying to put less miles and make more money. And to think some people have 20,000 dollar vehicles working uberx. That's a horrible way to do Uber.


My ballpark is around $12 take home net after $20 gross as well.

I have a neighbor who is currently leasing a car (chevy) and does uber x a bit. I've tried to explain to him how much it's costing him because he's going to end up paying over miles (chevy charges 20-25 cents per) on his car in addition to the gas/tires when he gets rid of it. He's basically too dumb to understand what I'm saying. I simply can't figure out a way to get through to him. So for him the only cost of doing uber is gas, in his mind.


----------



## emdeplam (Jan 13, 2017)

If your vehicle is for personal use as well then life also depreciated it. Your costs for Uber should consider if your alternative for Uber would mean you are car free. Another job is likely to involve a car and commute


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> My ballpark is around $12 take home net after $20 gross as well.
> 
> I have a neighbor who is currently leasing a car (chevy) and does uber x a bit. I've tried to explain to him how much it's costing him because he's going to end up paying over miles (chevy charges 20-25 cents per) on his car in addition to the gas/tires when he gets rid of it. He's basically too dumb to understand what I'm saying. I simply can't figure out a way to get through to him. So for him the only cost of doing uber is gas, in his mind.


150,000 extra miles at 25c a mile = buying your lease at the end of the lease for what it WOULd have been worth if you weren't 
over mileage.

your either paying $20,000 to buy your car with 180,000 miles on it, or your paying $37,500 to buy your way out of the lease...

People are just too stupid to do this job.



emdeplam said:


> If your vehicle is for personal use as well then life also depreciated it. Your costs for Uber should consider if your alternative for Uber would mean you are car free. Another job is likely to involve a car and commute


Using a car full time as a taxi, it's going to last 3-4 years.. that's all...Once your over 150,000 miles it's only a matter of time until your SOL
not chump change...

you baby a car... your looking at 15 if you treat it right... that's $100,000 extra in car purchases over 15 years. I have a 15 year old car that still runs well (2002 Neon), and there's a 2010 van that didn't last to 2015. My toy hauler... it's already over 20. (1996 F-150)

It's not hard to guess which i used as a taxi


----------



## midrangecity (Nov 10, 2017)

My car is only 13.7 cents a mile on this calculation even with the gas price increase and with doing the oil changes every 5,000 miles instead of 10,000 miles. The depreciation is a harder thing to crack as this car is an 11 year old car so it's not about the resale as I intend to drive it into the dirt. The bigger thing is what my cost would be to replace it. So I'm rounding all the way to 20 cents a mile

Through my first 3 weeks of driving, I'm over 2106 miles & I grossed $1320. It was a mix of 60% day hours and 40% night hours for 79 hours total. At 20 cents a mile, I come to $940 profit which is only $12 an hour. My profit is much higher (about $15 an hour) on the night drives. This week I focused way more on nights and did the same weekly gross in 200 miles less (learning more of the craft). So this can definitely get to $15 an hour if I do it right. 50,000 miles would make me $22,380 in a year at the rate I'm making right now. I could sustain that 2-3 years before car replacement. Giving myself 6.3 cents a mile and 100-150k miles before I replace the car gives me 6300-10k in the kitty towards the replacement.

Not bad for a 25 hour a week side gig right? Or am I delusional???


----------



## ReyesMX6 (Dec 31, 2016)

midrangecity said:


> My car is only 13.7 cents a mile on this calculation even with the gas price increase and with doing the oil changes every 5,000 miles instead of 10,000 miles. The depreciation is a harder thing to crack as this car is an 11 year old car so it's not about the resale as I intend to drive it into the dirt. The bigger thing is what my cost would be to replace it. So I'm rounding all the way to 20 cents a mile
> 
> Through my first 3 weeks of driving, I'm over 2106 miles & I grossed $1320. It was a mix of 60% day hours and 40% night hours for 79 hours total. At 20 cents a mile, I come to $940 profit which is only $12 an hour. My profit is much higher (about $15 an hour) on the night drives. This week I focused way more on nights and did the same weekly gross in 200 miles less (learning more of the craft). So this can definitely get to $15 an hour if I do it right. 50,000 miles would make me $22,380 in a year at the rate I'm making right now. I could sustain that 2-3 years before car replacement. Giving myself 6.3 cents a mile and 100-150k miles before I replace the car gives me 6300-10k in the kitty towards the replacement.
> 
> Not bad for a 25 hour a week side gig right? Or am I delusional???


You're delusional...lol. JK.

Seriously no one can be for sure. Only you can decide on if this gig is worth it or not. There are too many unknowns and you may not consistently make the same pay, car may break down sooner than you want, and blah blah blah. Just keep up with your records so you don't have to pay too much in taxes and hopefully you'll make it out OK in the end. Good luck!


----------



## Mike Gelato (Jun 22, 2017)

I have averaged it out.. The cost of gas,Extra Insurance and Taxes if you end the night with $200 your net will be 
$200
-20% taxes
Net $160.00
-Gas: $25.00 150 Miles
Net :$135.00

Total hours out 8 hours so comes out to be $17.00 an hour..No one pays me that to stay home so its worth it for me...The unfortunate thing is I live in a resort /Rural area and most pick up are 15 minutes away or 10 Miles on an average....But I have been lucky with the times I Uber and can get return rides..
Its the short rides like $3 to $5 that take up your time ...and if you run 20 of those it does not pan out at least for me. In a college town also and tips are non existent.

Just my comments from my end.....



Mike Gelato said:


> I have averaged it out.. The cost of gas,Extra Insurance and Taxes if you end the night with $200 your net will be
> $200
> -20% taxes
> Net $160.00
> ...


Forgot to mention I have a UBER XL


----------



## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

Houston, we detect the following problems:

1. Kelly Blue Book doesn't depreciate a car past a certain amount of miles, for example (according to Kelly Blue Book) a 2 year old car is worth the same whether it has 120,000 miles or 240,000... But make no mistake, when it comes time to get rid of your car you will see the buying side wise to the tactic.

As well depreciation is "more first, less later" so that trick of putting in mileage and adding a thousand and dividing to get depreciation per mile is not likely to turn out accurate. Long story short you'll be lucky to get the lowest private-sale blue book value for it, if you can find a buyer...

2. Many things are not factored into your "maintenance" costs, perhaps since many regular drivers never maintain any of the following:
Did you know?
- Brake fluid (yes, the fluid itself) needs to be flushed and replaced every so often, same goes for power steering.
- Transmission fluid and filter needs to be replaced every 10-20 thousand miles (especially when "hard" driving, such as this).
- Shocks / Struts / Exhaust systems, none of this and many more regular and periodic maintenance items are not covered in your instructional.
- Your belt(s) and hose(s), they're made of rubber and won't last forever, these are not free.
- Wheel bearings, tie-rod ends, control arm bushings, front-end alignments, windshield wiper blades, light bulbs, none of this is covered in your instructional and these are hardly the only things that aren't covered.
I'll stop here but it's not the end of that, not even close, maybe halfway there, maybe...

As well I never said the IRS deduction ($.535/mile) equals the cost of operating a personal vehicle for rideshare.
I never said that, what I have found because I am self-employed and driving is part of what I do...
It's not what I do but I drive to-from my customer's houses...
And what I have found and *what I said is it is EASIEST *to just take the IRS figure and done.

I mean unless you want to split hairs for three days a month trying to figure out your costs.



Mike Gelato said:


> *if you end the night with $200 *your net will be
> 
> Total hours out 8 hours so comes out to be $17.00 an hour..


Key words IF ...
Everything else is assumption and presumption.


----------



## LyftHomie313 (Jan 2, 2018)

I started Lyft in April and did this calculation on one of my first nights driving. I got so sick of ppl saying how much they make per hour, it's a bogus calculation that mentions nothing about operating expenses. Taking the amount earned _after_ cost per mile and dividing that by hours online is fine but I hardly see ppl do that.

My yukon xl comes out to about $.27/mile when gas in MI is around $3/gal for 93 octane. $.19/mile of that is gas.

Tires and oil changes came out to very little, < $.01/mile iirc. Brakes were a bit pricey. The only addition I'll add to the OP is shocks/suspension work. The roads in southeast MI are terrible and will wreak havoc on shocks, struts, wheel bearings, etc.

I didn't have costs for shock work on my truck b/c I haven't had to replace them yet, but shocks for my '01 Regal cost $1k at a shop and they recommend every 50k miles, so I guesstimated $1500 for the truck at the same interval, comes out to $.03/mile, which is _alot_.

I also leave my trip meter on the entire time I'm logged in so I can count total miles driven and not use Lyft's numbers. On bad nights I try to average $.60/mile, so I know I've at least doubled my money. Side hustle right ??


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

A lot of good ideas in this thread. I hope it has opened some eyes.
Data from Edmunds True Cost to Own for a 2015 Mazda 3, for the first 75,000 miles over 5 years:

depr.: $0.107
fuel: $0.086
maint.: $0.057
repair: $0.025
---------
$0.275 per mile

I also have misc. costs like business licenses, car washes, etc.


----------



## Recoup (Jan 30, 2017)

Electric cars rule. I figure 10¢-11¢ per mile operating cost, depending on season (electricity is more expensive in the summer here). I bought my car used (aka depreciated to hell and gone because 'Murrica is skairt of them new-fangled electric vehickles).

Disclaimer: Part-time driver, so I'm _not _putting a thousand miles a week on my car.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

sidemouse said:


> Houston, we detect the following problems:
> 
> 1. Kelly Blue Book doesn't depreciate a car past a certain amount of miles, for example (according to Kelly Blue Book) a 2 year old car is worth the same whether it has 120,000 miles or 240,000... But make no mistake, when it comes time to get rid of your car you will see the buying side wise to the tactic.
> 
> ...


Most of those maintenance items you mention are not real. ****** fluid every 10-20 is insane. Don't waste money: go with what the manual says. Most new cars do not even have a scheduled date on fluid changes for radiator or brake or ******. Read: do not change them. That is straight from manufacturer's specs. Struts, bearings are all repair items; when they go bad you replace. Nobody unless they own shares in autozone is preemptively changing parts like that until they need it.

Case in point my minivan now has 73k. Drives like the day I bought it. All it has ever had is 10k oil change per manual and brakes (I do brakes). Replace engine air and cabin filter once in a blue moon and fill the washer fluid. Not one other item has ever needed work. I inspect fluids from time to time. Belts are replaced when they break(never in my life ever had a belt break on any car btw).Timing chain is good for life time of engine, etc. I think you have a mindset of 1980's American cars. All I have ever owned are Japanese cars and they last until you get bored with them.

Cars are absurdly reliable these days and the manuals is proof of how little maintenance they truly need.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Most of those maintenance items you mention are not real. ****** fluid every 10-20 is insane. Don't waste money: go with what the manual says. Most new cars do not even have a scheduled date on fluid changes for radiator or brake or ******. Read: do not change them. That is straight from manufacturer's specs. Struts, bearings are all repair items; when they go bad you replace. Nobody unless they own shares in autozone is preemptively changing parts like that until they need it.
> 
> Case in point my minivan now has 73k. Drives like the day I bought it. All it has ever had is 10k oil change per manual and brakes (I do brakes). Replace engine air and cabin filter once in a blue moon and fill the washer fluid. Not one other item has ever needed work. I inspect fluids from time to time. Belts are replaced when they break(never in my life ever had a belt break on any car btw).Timing chain is good for life time of engine, etc. I think you have a mindset of 1980's American cars. All I have ever owned are Japanese cars and they last until you get bored with them.
> 
> Cars are absurdly reliable these days and the manuals is proof of how little maintenance they truly need.


say that again in after about 80,000 miles.

100,000 warranty's exist because cars usually stay together until you hit... 100,000 miles.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> say that again in after about 80,000 miles.
> 
> 100,000 warranty's exist because cars usually stay together until you hit... 100,000 miles.


Nope, they exist at 100k because it's a nice clean number. 60k powertrain is an industry standard across multiple manufacturers, not because they all die at 61k, but just because. How many Camry's are getting transmission problems at 60k? 36k is standard bumper to bumper, do you think most cars need a new AC clutch at 37?

Follow manufacturer guidelines on scheduled maintenance. Anything else is just money thrown away.


----------



## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

I like to think in terms of replacement costs because my two Uber cars are 12 years old and depreciated to a good degree, and driving Uber is going to make one of them take a dump eventually. I pretend I am going to buy a brand new car so that I estimate my costs high / my profits low. This ensures I am making money. If I choose to repair the car instead of buying new, that's kind of like a down payment on a new car. So it all evens out.

$400/mo car payment + $100 for insurance/misc = $6000/yr. Those are my "fixed" costs which I amortize over the estimated total number of miles driven per year...for my primary Uber vehicle that's about 30k miles, which combines breadwinning job commute and Uber miles. This equals $0.20/mile which is my baseline.

I add gas costs on top of that. $2.40/gal / 20 MPG = $0.12/mile. Winter = lower MPG.

So I have a total of $0.32/mile in costs. Yes this is high but I like to be conservative in my profit estimates so I don't make bad decisions.

ShinyAndChrome I like your OP but $0.20/mile seems a little low. Please track your actual maintenance/repair expenses over one year and get back to us. When I was driving my 2009 Mazda5 with ~200,000 miles I racked up $3,000 in repairs in a couple of months (although admittedly I was playing catch up after years of neglect). Then the clutch needed to be replaced and that would have been another $1,400...so I sold it.



emdeplam said:


> If your vehicle is for personal use as well then life also depreciated it. Your costs for Uber should consider if your alternative for Uber would mean you are car free. Another job is likely to involve a car and commute


While I don't disagree, these statements may be a bit misleading. Sure, most people don't worry about their per-mile cost when commuting to a day job, but it's *very important* to calculate the additional costs due to Ubering to ensure a person is making a profit. Otherwise the temptation is to "subsidize" driving for Uber with a car "I need anyway for my day job" without realizing the additional costs incurred.

My Sonata just got a flat tire...in the sidewall which meant the tire needed to be replaced. $175. My BMW has gotten 2 flat tires in the past 6 months; fortunately they were both repairable so they were like $20 and $40 repairs, respectively. Is it pure coincidence that my flat tire rate has increased dramatically since driving Uber and finding myself in all kids of weird downtown construction zones? I'll let you decide.

I'm not knocking Uber because I like the extra income, the flexibility, and the fun...I just want people to be realistic about profitability so they stay home and I make more money. 

Plus I am aware that you probably have enough information from this forum to look up my account and mess with me if you wanted to. I am asking you not to do that because I am a good driver and represent the brand well.


----------



## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Most of those maintenance items you mention are not real. ****** fluid every 10-20 is insane. Don't waste money: go with what the manual says. Most new cars do not even have a scheduled date on fluid changes for radiator or brake or ******. Read: do not change them. That is straight from manufacturer's specs. Struts, bearings are all repair items; when they go bad you replace. Nobody unless they own shares in autozone is preemptively changing parts like that until they need it.
> 
> Case in point my minivan now has 73k. Drives like the day I bought it. All it has ever had is 10k oil change per manual and brakes (I do brakes). Replace engine air and cabin filter once in a blue moon and fill the washer fluid. Not one other item has ever needed work. I inspect fluids from time to time. Belts are replaced when they break(never in my life ever had a belt break on any car btw).Timing chain is good for life time of engine, etc. I think you have a mindset of 1980's American cars. All I have ever owned are Japanese cars and they last until you get bored with them.
> 
> Cars are absurdly reliable these days and the manuals is proof of how little maintenance they truly need.


The part I always hate is when I buy a used car is knowing the person who owned it before me probably NEVER changed much of anything. The reason your manual doesn't have those dates scheduled is most likely because the manufacturer doesn't really care, they'd rather sell you another since they also know the new car owner never listens to them anyway, they know the new car owner would rather have the dealer blow smoke up their butt. But that's ok because I inspect those vehicles pretty thoroughly and if I spot inconsistencies that price is coming down and I mean way down.

You don't know the cost of a rebuild on a transmission, do you?
I didn't think so, I routinely drive my cars into the 200,000 to 300,000 odometer readings, noobs with their nerdy guppy mobiles don't need to apply for my job, I also routinely pull a trailer with equipment and driving in the city isn't exactly easy on a car either.
Matter of fact ANY "city" driving is labeled as hard driving and should follow that maintenance plan, you've probably been following the highway plan since all your money is going to making the payments and you can't really see how you could possibly afford paying someone else to do the maintenance on it.
News flash: I don't make car payments, and I do the maintenance myself.

Just one example because I could fill pages just off the above...
I don't replace bearings either, at least I don't recall replacing any in the past 15 years... Maybe on the bmw, I think I did have to do those since they were sealed. That job was a royal pain in the ass on that car, I think I ended up paying someone to do them. Other than that it's cheaper to repack them, best done at the same time as replacing the brake pads although your car probably has sealed bearings which can't be repacked and likely cost 1-2 hundred to replace, per wheel... Labor aside, repacking costs under $2 each.

That's just one example, I'm pretty sure I know more about cars since I'm the one getting intimate with them but you just keep on chugging and making those full coverage insurance premiums so you can help protect me against people like you.

As for the mindset, you have me confused with you.

p.s.: I sold the beemer, both of them, was fun while it lasted but it's off the bucket list now.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

sidemouse said:


> The part I always hate is when I buy a used car is knowing the person who owned it before me probably NEVER changed much of anything. The reason your manual doesn't have those dates scheduled is most likely because the manufacturer doesn't really care, they'd rather sell you another since they also know the new car owner never listens to them anyway, they know the new car owner would rather have the dealer blow smoke up their butt. But that's ok because I inspect those vehicles pretty thoroughly and if I spot inconsistencies that price is coming down and I mean way down.
> 
> You don't know the cost of a rebuild on a transmission, do you?
> I didn't think so, I routinely drive my cars into the 200,000 to 300,000 odometer readings, noobs with their nerdy guppy mobiles don't need to apply for my job, I also routinely pull a trailer with equipment and driving in the city isn't exactly easy on a car either.
> ...


Lots of assumptions in your post, and yes I did enjoy reading them. The passive aggressive tone was enjoyable as well. I had a ****** die on me almost twenty years ago and it was replaced with a rebuilt. I still do oil and brake changes myself, and in the past have done struts, replaced some CV axles, among other things. Your assumptions about my financial situation were my favorite part of the post.


----------

