# Not accepting vs. canceling



## u_no_me (Jun 27, 2014)

The 3 rideshares penalize not accepting a request over canceling. 

Does this make sense? 

Has any one been warned or penalized for gaming the system?


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

I accept and cancel all the time, since 15 sec is sometimes not enough to map out the address, and sometimes the address is totally unacceptable. I had no idea I was profiting from this quirk.

To clarify, I'm not going to drive twenty minutes to pick up a 4.4 into a horrible neighborhood at the end of the night. If she were a few blocks away, I'd give her a ride since she probably needs one and it's my job. But the app obscures the facts, so I have to cancel.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

I believe with uber that not accepting would obviously hurt your acceptance rate. I wonder if cancelling after accepting might not have the same effect on your acceptance rate. It seems that the acceptance rate only really comes into play during guarantee periods.


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## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

If your acceptance rate drops too low, you could be waitlisted or even deactivated. If you must, accept the trip and then cancel -- this covers your butt, basically. Of course, it'd be even better to acept the trip and take the fare.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

I would think Uber would want to be very careful about deactivating for low acceptance rates. That would make them look very much like an employer in a legal sense.


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## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> I would think Uber would want to be very careful about deactivating for low acceptance rates. That would make them look very much like an employer in a legal sense.


Perhaps, but it is part of the stats that you're tracked by, similar to your star rating. You're expected to keep it above a certain percentage.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Farlance said:


> If your acceptance rate drops too low, you could be waitlisted or even deactivated. If you must, accept the trip and then cancel -- this covers your butt, basically. Of course, it'd be even better to acept the trip and take the fare.


This post though with a notification from Uber seems to indicate the cancellation rate is tracked also?

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-notice-account-on-quality-review-action-required.869/

Overall Rating
Surge Rating
Non-Surge Rating
Acceptance Rate
Cancellation Rate
Fare reviews per trip
Total 1 star Trips
Total 5 star Trips


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## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

grams777 said:


> This post though with a notification from Uber seems to indicate the cancelation rate is tracked also?
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-notice-account-on-quality-review-action-required.869/


It is, however hopefully you're neither cancelling nor not accepting fares often enough for it to matter. While we can overlook the occasional cancel, if your acceptance rate drops too low, it's harder to ignore.


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## u_no_me (Jun 27, 2014)

Farlance, thank you, good to know. But curious, do you know the logic of why not accepting is considered a greater sin than canceling?


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## jakob (Jul 16, 2014)

I would think not accepting the call would be better, because if you pick up a call and cancel just makes you look bad, for one the rider gets a text uber is on the way and than receive a text Opps your uber has been canceled...


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

jakob said:


> I would think not accepting the call would be better, because if you pick up a call and cancel just makes you look bad, for one the rider gets a text uber is on the way and than receive a text Opps your uber has been canceled...


And, in the end, it takes the rider longer to get a driver if they have been accepted/cancelled.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> And, in the end, it takes the rider longer to get a driver if they have been accepted/cancelled.


Riders generally seem pretty ticked off when a ride is cancelled. The alternative, of just letting the driver search go for another 15-30 seconds would seem preferable. The last ride I skipped I had just got onto an onramp. The ping was behind me. So, I was looking at a 5+ minute delay to go to the next exit and return = rider will cancel or low rate me for the delay. Accept first and cancel later I guess is the better way. Do the right thing...and get screwed as Sydney would say ( https://uberpeople.net/threads/what-would-you-do.1343/#post-11515 ).

But, what do I know? My company isn't worth $18 Billion.


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## UberSF (Jul 30, 2014)

First post! I drive in SF and just lately i've been accepting rides and then canceling them within 20 secs if i know they are too far. With all the drivers out there, my philosophy is someone closer can get them. I've also noticed lately i get requests from opposite sides of the city during commute times. For example If I'm in southern SOMA and a request comes in from Union Square and its gridlock which usually is i let the time elapse, go back online and wait for a closer request to come in. Most riders in SF want the driver there within 5 min. Since i know SF inside out i sometimes beat the expected wait time by doing this strategy, which adds to higher ratings. I have 4.9


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

UberSF said:


> First post! I drive in SF and just lately i've been accepting rides and then canceling them within 20 secs if i know they are too far. With all the drivers out there, my philosophy is someone closer can get them. I've also noticed lately i get requests from opposite sides of the city during commute times. For example If I'm in southern SOMA and a request comes in from Union Square and its gridlock which usually is i let the time elapse, go back online and wait for a closer request to come in. Most riders in SF want the driver there within 5 min. Since i know SF inside out i sometimes beat the expected wait time by doing this strategy, which adds to higher ratings. I have 4.9


 Wouldn't the customer be better off if you had not accepted the ride in the first place since he would be assigned a driver more quickly?


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## UberSF (Jul 30, 2014)

Difficult to say. The system is buggy and weird sometimes especially when the pin drops and addresses are way off the mark.


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## Nautilis (Apr 16, 2014)

Farlance said:


> It is, however hopefully you're neither cancelling nor not accepting fares often enough for it to matter. While we can overlook the occasional cancel, if your acceptance rate drops too low, it's harder to ignore.


Farlance: Can you confirm that Uber tracks driver initiated cancels separately from rider initiated cancels? I get riders cancelling on me often.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

They appear differently on the "Recent Trips" list on the phone - "cancelled" vs. "driver_cancelled"


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## u_no_me (Jun 27, 2014)

Perhaps part of the reason for a minimal focus on driver cancellations is the difficulty in separating the reasons beyond driver control (no-show, wrong address, unreasonably far, etc.) from simple driver preference - but that seems like only a partial complication that can be mostly filtered out. Of course rider cancellations should be filtered out of the question.


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## UberSF (Jul 30, 2014)

I believe if you accept every ride and cancel within 20 secs, you will retain higher acceptance rate. We drivers have to find ways of keeping our ratings high and if manipulating the system is the way to go, so be it. Especially with Uber manipulating us by changing the rules and making us pay a $10/wk access fee. By the way, off this topic what did some of you think of the new contract we were forced to sign a month ago where we can't sue the company?


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

I live in a fairly slow new market. Sometimes I've been the only driver on at times. There is NO way I'm driving 20 min to pick up a rider for a $6 ride only to have to drive back. 50 mins for $4.00 ($6-$1x.80)minus costs to operate my car = ~$2 to me. WAKE up people (and uber). If the ride is more than 10 min away, I accept and communicate with the rider. Very short ride = no go. Uber and investors are Rich because of fools. Stop the foolishness. Uber could use better technology to take care of issues like this, but they likely won't if drivers continue to transfer their assets (time, liability, wear on car, etc) to Uber with very little in return...


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## LisaB (Jul 20, 2014)

next fee will be for the drivers to help pay for the uber insurance. stay tuned!


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

LisaB said:


> next fee will be for the drivers to help pay for the uber insurance. stay tuned!


If Uber would provide a phone number to use in case of an accident and include this on some kind of insurance card, then I would be OK for the $1 safe rider fee going towards the insurance.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> I would think Uber would want to be very careful about deactivating for low acceptance rates. That would make them look very much like an employer in a legal sense.


They want to be very careful about a lot of things they're currently doing, if they expect to win the inevitable court case which will decide once and for all if our 1099 status is anything but a "legal fiction".



LisaB said:


> next fee will be for the drivers to help pay for the uber insurance. stay tuned!


If they decide their customers will not tolerate a fare hike, ever, then watch as our $40 phone fee becomes a $200 as costs of inflation and regulation are laid one by one at the driver's feet. Not that I disagree with regulation, UberX drivers are underinsured, unequivocally.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

I've had 3 didn't accepts because I stayed online waiting for half the customers to use their own account to get the rest of the way home. Another was because I was searching the back seat for a phone a customer claimed they left (but didn't) and couldn't get to the screen in time. I should have gone offline. I've also had pings from 39 minutes away two different times. Your reward for going that far? A crappy rating for taking so long to get there.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> Your reward for going that far? A crappy rating for taking so long to get there.


Or, more likely, a free cancellation when you're a minute away.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Also see this thread...driver deactivated due to cancellation rate:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/rejected-account.1554/#post-13570


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## Leticia (Aug 4, 2014)

troubleinrivercity said:


> I accept and cancel all the time, since 15 sec is sometimes not enough to map out the address, and sometimes the address is totally unacceptable. I had no idea I was profiting from this quirk.
> 
> To clarify, I'm not going to drive twenty minutes to pick up a 4.4 into a horrible neighborhood at the end of the night. If she were a few blocks away, I'd give her a ride since she probably needs one and it's my job. But the app obscures the facts, so I have to cancel.


Complete agree.does your star rating going down I was 4.56 after I cancel a trip 4.42


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

A cancellation is not supposed to affect your rating. It could be coincidence that a previous rider just rated you.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

mp775 said:


> A cancellation is not supposed to affect your rating. It could be coincidence that a previous rider just rated you.


The driver referenced above who was deactivated due to cancellations, said he had a 4.8 overall rating. So I guess you have to balance it all out. You can cancel your way out of what may be some bad rating rides, but then you may still get booted from too many cancellations even with a decent rating.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

Yes, it may affect your status as a driver but not the star rating visible to riders. At least based on what Uber publishes, which is always so consistent...


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

I think Uber has many metrics to measure a driver by.... we will learn slowly the fatal ones.

Your driver agreement says once you Accept a ride you should do everything within your power to complete it....it does not say you have to accept any rides.... yet we know they measure 
"acceptance rate" and top drivers exceed 97%... so to accept and then cancel is a sin per the driver agreement.

"driver cancelled" with out waiting over 10 minutes and using the app to notify them of your arrival is bad, but depending on your market you will be paid $5.00 to $10.00 doing just that.

why or how the above referenced driver accumulated too many "cancelled rides" we may never know, just know "driver cancelled" is against the agreement.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> so to accept and then cancel is a sin per the driver agreement.


Except, from farther up this thread:



Farlance said:


> If your acceptance rate drops too low, you could be waitlisted or even deactivated. If you must, accept the trip and then cancel -- this covers your butt, basically.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Based on nothing other than gut feeling, I worry more about my driver_cancels than any other metric. They're quite unsatisfying for the rider, but if protecting myself means I get kicked out, so be it.

These get added to my cancel-no-charges for not being able to locate the client, or client not coming out in five minutes. They really do work out to a fair number of uncompleted trips.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

We are supposed to wait 10 minutes after arrival? I've cancelled at 5 when a customer seemed to have his phone off. 10 minutes isnt reasonable when they ordered a cab and the app says you will arrive in 1 minute.


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## Roberto (Jul 16, 2014)

Got lost today and cancelled. Felt like he'd be mad about me being delayed since the app was taking me down a closed road and then he'd give me a low rating so I just cancelled. Also cancelled, when waiting more than 5 -7 minutes with no contact of any kind. If they call me and say i'll be there in 10-15 min it's cool though.


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## LiveFreeorUber (Jun 17, 2014)

Sometimes I ask my passengers whether they use Uber a lot and how they like it, I had one remark that he's getting a lot more cancellations by drivers lately. I've cancelled a bunch myself, some due to traffic/distance/neighborhood and others due to no-show. No backlash yet, but I'm new.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Roberto said:


> Got lost today and cancelled. Felt like he'd be mad about me being delayed since the app was taking me down a closed road and then he'd give me a low rating so I just cancelled. Also cancelled, when waiting more than 5 -7 minutes with no contact of any kind. If they call me and say i'll be there in 10-15 min it's cool though.


It's not cool if they ask you to wait more than a couple minutes. If it's going to be more than 2, you should ask if you can start the meter. I'm shocked some feel you should wait 10 before marking them as a no-show. I certainly wouldn't They are sent an email that you are about to arrive, a second that you have arrived. If you can't reach them by phone after a couple minutes, I think it's reasonable to cancel them and mark them no-show.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> It's not cool if they ask you to wait more than a couple minutes. If it's going to be more than 2, you should ask if you can start the meter. I'm shocked some feel you should wait 10 before marking them as a no-show. I certainly wouldn't They are sent an email that you are about to arrive, a second that you have arrived. If you can't reach them by phone after a couple minutes, I think it's reasonable to cancel them and mark them no-show.


How can you be "shocked"?
from: https://partners.uber.com/faq/questions/3315
*How long should I wait for a user?*
We suggest that drivers wait for users for 10 minutes after arriving at the trip starting point. After the 10 minute free waiting period, a user can ask a driver to continue waiting. After the user has given you permission, you may hit "begin trip" and the user will start to get charged for the fare. Otherwise, hit cancel in the top left-hand corner to go back on duty.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Wow, I missed that faq. Thanks for posting it.


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## UberSF (Jul 30, 2014)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> It's not cool if they ask you to wait more than a couple minutes. If it's going to be more than 2, you should ask if you can start the meter. I'm shocked some feel you should wait 10 before marking them as a no-show. I certainly wouldn't They are sent an email that you are about to arrive, a second that you have arrived. If you can't reach them by phone after a couple minutes, I think it's reasonable to cancel them and mark them no-show.


I've noticed quite a bit lately my riders aren't getting the "heads up" im here signal. When they get in my car, they ask how long i've been waiting i say "did you get the "arriving" alert? Most say no now.


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## TomNashville (Jul 20, 2014)

LisaB said:


> next fee will be for the drivers to help pay for the uber insurance. stay tuned!


Isn't that what the "safe rides" fee is?


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

Originally it was for background checks. Now, the FAQ says it's also for "regular motor vehicle checks, driver safety education, development of safety features in the app, and insurance" (even though there are obvious problems with that statement).


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

TomNashville said:


> Isn't that what the "safe rides" fee is?


No, the "safe ride fee" is for the background checks.

I have heard that Uber mentions a 30% take when they pitch to investors.
That is the final goal once they are established and the promotional periods end.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> No, the "safe ride fee" is for the background checks.
> 
> I have heard that Uber mentions a 30% take when they pitch to investors.
> That is the final goal once they are established and the promotional periods end.


One thing Uber is good at, talking out of both sides of their mouth!


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

UberSF said:


> I've noticed quite a bit lately my riders aren't getting the "heads up" im here signal. When they get in my car, they ask how long i've been waiting i say "did you get the "arriving" alert? Most say no now.


I wonder if we send them a text message if it gets there any faster.


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## Maxcain (Aug 4, 2015)

u_no_me said:


> The 3 rideshares penalize not accepting a request over canceling.
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 
> Has any one been warned or penalized for gaming the system?





u_no_me said:


> The 3 rideshares penalize not accepting a request over canceling.
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 
> Has any one been warned or penalized for gaming the system?


Yes,today i was deactivated because i am not accepting fares that are more then 10 minutes away only to have them go $4.00 away and also when i show they take 5 minutes to show up and then go a mile away.I am so upset because i really give my passagers a great and clean ride.I am seriously fed up with spending more in gas and wear and tear only to make under $300 a week


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## Maxcain (Aug 4, 2015)

Farlance said:


> If your acceptance rate drops too low, you could be waitlisted or even deactivated. If you must, accept the trip and then cancel -- this covers your butt, basically. Of course, it'd be even better to acept the trip and take the fare.


I have accepted and did cancel the fare only to have Uber complain that i am cancelling to many fares and they tell me not to accept any fares to far away,i did this and was deactivated because i will not take a fare thats to far


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## Maxcain (Aug 4, 2015)

What i am saying is,I contacted Uber and they said if i cancel to many fares my account would be deactivated and told me not to accept any rides that are to far.Usually if the fare is 10 minutes away i dont accept.I dont cancel anymore because i was worried i would be deactivated.So if i am on the phone and cant accept or if i dont want to spend more in gas and wear and tear to drive and pickup someone because its not worth my time,i was deactivated today for 24 hours because i dont accept every fare.So bottom line Uber ONLY cares about their profits and to me if i dont accept it give someone closer the chance to make money and the fare doesnt have to wait.So from now on i am accepting every fare and telling the passengers to cancel,If this continues,i am going to Lyft were at least i can make money for gas with tips.If Uber allowed tips maybe i wouldnt mind going the extra mile


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

UberSF said:


> We drivers have to find ways of keeping our ratings high and if manipulating the system is the way to go, so be it.


Funny, my approach for that is maintaining a decent vehicle, driving well, and being a pleasant driver.

I've skipped only one ride, 22 minutes away. The only cancellation was a party of five that I could not accommodate.

That means I've taken some lame fares, unfortunately, but that's part of the job.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Maxcain said:


> If Uber allowed tips maybe i wouldnt mind going the extra mile


Uber allows tips. I've gotten four myself, including two today.


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## anna molly (Jan 24, 2015)

Nautilis said:


> Farlance: Can you confirm that Uber tracks driver initiated cancels separately from rider initiated cancels? I get riders cancelling on me often.


They do separate the rider initiated cancellations. The percentage provided is strictly driver initiated, and I believe is adjusted down to not include rider no-shows.


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## anna molly (Jan 24, 2015)

UberSF said:


> I believe if you accept every ride and cancel within 20 secs, you will retain higher acceptance rate. We drivers have to find ways of keeping our ratings high and if manipulating the system is the way to go, so be it. Especially with Uber manipulating us by changing the rules and making us pay a $10/wk access fee. By the way, off this topic what did some of you think of the new contract we were forced to sign a month ago where we can't sue the company?


You'll have a high acceptance but also a high percentage of cancellations on accepted trips. You'll bec warned and if there isn't improvement, you'd be deactivated. The $10 is for using an Uber phone and data. If you use your own there is no charge from Uber.


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## Sid161 (May 9, 2016)

Sign the petition that can be found online



u_no_me said:


> The 3 rideshares penalize not accepting a request over canceling.
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 
> Has any one been warned or penalized for gaming the system?





u_no_me said:


> The 3 rideshares penalize not accepting a request over canceling.
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 
> Has any one been warned or penalized for gaming the system?


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