# Passenger Perspective on Tips et al.



## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )

1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."

Uber is marketed as being cheaper than Taxi and one it's main selling point is not bothering about cash or tipping. Uber is the cheapest bet on the circuit which automatically implies that a largely "cheap" clientele will use it. Secondly, and I feel this is an important distinction that most here gloss over that Uber drivers aren't dependent on tips to make a living. In a taxi, I know that the driver does this full-time and depends on this to make a living. In a restaurant, I know that the bartender's income is based on % of tips.Whereas an Uber driver is someone how does it for supplemental income or atleast that is the projection because little more money hurts no one. I am also aware that they receive 80% of my fare as their pay. I have met software developers , restaurant owners(!) and chemical engineers as my Uber drivers and all seemed to be praiseworthy of the fact they could set their hours and it's nice to have more money. Maybe they didn't do a good enough calculation to learn that they are maybe losing money/mile for short trips but if they seem enthusiastic and make it sound like "pocket money" why would anyone else treat their job as a breadwinner.

Another angle is the clientele. People shop at Walmart for the prices. If a hypermarket opened which sold the same products for even 5% cheaper , the same clientele would switch loyalty in a heartbeat. The reason people use Uber is to get from Point A to Point B at the cheapest cost their schedule permits. If price of taxi+tip < uber+tip +excellent service, people would comprise on the service/quality for a few bucks and switch back to taxi. It is why McDonalds and KMarts exist. You can't expect generous tipping mentality from the clientele which is using the cheapest option in the segment. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment. How much does a bartender at downtown bar make in tips vs. the server on a $2 Taco Tuesday joint ? Someone who is not penny pinching over an Uber trip could possible just order a radio cab or chauffeured service anyways.

2. While my above point was regarding perception and price, this one is far more simple - Convenience to tip. I have tipped a Lyft driver always because the opportunity to do so exists. I do not carry much cash, mostly just a few dollars, so to expect a tip when Uber bills itself as cashless and doesn't provide a tipping module on the app is wishful. I was forced to take a taxi recently in Vegas ( no Uber here :/ ) and had to shell out 3$ more just to use my card and I still did despite it being a rip off because I don't carry cash and I'm sure many don't as well. I'm not sure how much more would people tip if a module was introduced because it's the culture against tipping that Uber encourages and you'll always be trying to swim against the tide. Still, having that option would atleast make people think twice and reward those who go out of their way to give you a comfortable ride.

3. The reason there are voices of dissent is not because of tips but because the rates by themselves are peanuts. If the rates were rewarding I feel people wouldn't be as concerned about tipping.

4. One reason why tipping became a culture is because it encouraged accountability and good service. Basically make them earn their pay. If pole dancers were paid a fair flat rate the "gymnastics" on show would nosedive since no incentive would exist to put in more effort. Guess what, that is what ratings exist for. Having ratings and split fare % removes any incentive for Uber to introduce tipping . Sure , people dislike ratings but it is exactly for those reasons that they hate ratings , does it exist. Drivers would try to cherry-pick more profitable rides. The very reasons people have grown to dislike cabs/taxis. I've had an Uber driver in Chicago try to game the system by calling me before they reach me and ask my destination and then went on to say he couldn't drop me since he wont have a fare back and proceeded to ask me to cancel the ride.

I understand the cause for frustration on not being valued and given your dues but it isn't something that you were tricked into ? Rate cuts are I believe the legitimate source of grievances since that is practically bait and switch. However you were always aware that tipping wasn't a part of the payout then why complain when it is exactly how it is stated. I guess Uber hopes that drivers would grumble but stick since "something" is better than nothing. Sorry if I came across as rude, that wasn't my intention. I hope I was able to give some perspective as how I see things.

Regards,


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

well at .70/mile....... I need not say more


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


I would agree with you that the best solution would be higher fares.

But, there is some logic in an Uber driver's frustration that the same customer who will tip a cabbie for the same trip and a higher fare won't tip their Uber driver for the same trip, a lower fare, and probably a better ride experience.

Yes, I do blame Uber for a lot of that. It is only in the last month that Uber has changed the language of their referral emails to stop LYING by saying that tips were included in the fare. This Uber lie has been going on for well over a year since tips were taken out of the equation. I also believe that Uber should stay out of the tip discussion. Even though Uber changed the referral email language, they still imply that tips are included. They are not our employers, so they should not be interfering with business conducted by a passenger and a driver. It might give Uber a better leg to stand on in arguing that we are not employees. I certainly do not expect to ever be tipped, but when I am, I do appreciate it.

Uber could allow the customer to tip within the app, as Lyft does. But Uber does not seem to care enough about their "partners" to allow that. As has been discussed on these boards, allowing tips would probably ensure a better ride experience for pax than the rating system does. It might also reduce their CSR customer service workload.

Finally, despite the labeling of the S.R.F., in reality it is simply a $1 "tip" for Uber. Why is it good enough for Uber, but not its "partners"?


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> ...If pole dancers were paid a fair flat rate the "gymnastics" on show would nosedive since no incentive would exist to put in more effort.


What an asinine statemeant.

Next time you're in my car I'll slow down a bit so you can jump out.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were.
> 
> Snip
> 
> Regards,


Well said. All these Uber drivers crying about not getting tipped have no one to blame but themselves.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Lidman said:


> well at .70/mile....... I need not say more


Surely, you don't expect the passenger to know that. Heck, even a significant chunk of Uber drivers aren't aware of their costs.



Oc_DriverX said:


> But, there is some logic in an Uber driver's frustration that the same customer who will tip a cabbie for the same trip and a higher fare won't tip their Uber driver for the same trip, a lower fare, and probably a better ride experience.


Like I mentioned, it is because people view Uber drivers as folks from their neighborhood who are doing this part-time to make extra $$ in their free time(read: they have another job as well) and not as people who are working Uber for minimum wage. Cabbies don't own their taxis whereas Uber drivers own their swanky cars (means their other job probably pays decent already) and thus it seems implausible they are struggling to make ends meet.



Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> All these Uber drivers crying about not getting tipped have no one to blame but themselves.


I didn't imply that. As someone who does tip where expected and uses Uber, I was surprised that Uber drivers expect tips so you can imagine how brainwashed I am. Doesn't mean acting entitled is justified either.


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


Travis...is that you?


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

ReviTULize said:


> Travis...is that you?


JK...well said


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Surely, you don't expect the passenger to know that. Heck, even a significant chunk of Uber drivers aren't aware of their costs.
> 
> ]


Yes I would except passengers to know that. And don't call me Shirley


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Like I mentioned, it is because people view Uber drivers as folks from their neighborhood who are doing this part-time to make extra $$ in their free time(read: they have another job as well) and not as people who are working Uber for minimum wage. Cabbies don't own their taxis whereas Uber drivers own their swanky cars (means their other job probably pays decent already) and thus it seems implausible they are struggling to make ends meet.


That right there is simply an excuse not to tip.
My barber lives not far from me, he only works at the barber shop on Tues. and Sat. Should/would I assume something that would rationalize me not tipping the guy who cuts my hair?

Its simple, if you tip other forms of taxi/livery/Lyft driver there is no real reason not to tip Uber drivers. If you feel the other drivers deserve it then the Uber drivers deserve it regardless of your assumed conclusion that they don't need it,


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

It is the one single thing that would make their drivers content. The customer should have the option to reward someone for a job well done.

I have even tipped the valets at some of the busiest hotels, etc...and they do their best to give me special treatment when they see my car.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Backdash said:


> That right there is simply an excuse not to tip.
> My barber lives not far from me, he only works at the barber shop on Tues. and Sat. Should/would I assume something that would rationalize me not tipping the guy who cuts my hair?
> 
> Its simple, if you tip other forms of taxi/livery/Lyft driver there is no real reason not to tip Uber drivers. If you feel the other drivers deserve it then the Uber drivers deserve it regardless of your assumed conclusion that they don't need it,


Fair enough. But does your barber hang a sign outside their shop saying that tips aren't necessary or required? The way it is worded at the moment it suggests that the fare already accounts for the fact that tips aren't expected. Thus my assumption on reading that would be that the fares have been probably inflated slightly to accommodate potential tips and I needn't re-tip as I've paid for it through my fare.I would tip henceforth but you still have to educate the remaining 95% of the riders and that won't happen without the backing of Uber.

Lyft provides tips to their drivers but as you know it barely competes on riders and so it has to offer something to entice drivers. Maybe Uber's gameplan all along was to see how low could prices fall before drivers start disappearing. Once they have that magic number they would probably lower the fees by 10% and then add a tip option to give the same elastic rate below which drivers would opt out. Lower rates for riders and tips for drivers to placate everyone. That is the cynic in me speaking though.


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

Hell....I'd even be happy with the ability to add an extra $1 per pax


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Fair enough. But does your barber hang a sign outside their shop saying that tips aren't necessary or required?


Fair enough question with an answer that you already know. But Ill go ahead and state the obvious.

Tips are not required, necessary, anywhere or anytime, ever.
Tips, if any, and the amount are always at the discretion of the customer unless otherwise stated in writing prior to the transaction.
As in, " a 20% gratuity will be added to all parties of six or more"

The reason the barber doesnt hang a sign saying tips aren't necessary or required is because everybody older than 12 knows that.

If an entity does not want their service people tipped they will state in plain sight and in plain english, OUR STAFF DOES NOT ACCEPT TIPS or NO TIPPING PLEASE


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

The typical Uber passenger is no more likely to tip at any of the finer restaurants they dine at than they are an Uber driver... except for those weeks where the McRib is back on the menu.


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## Enoch Shadkam (Jul 16, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


Uberx customers know that tip is not included, they just pretend is included.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Fair enough. But does your barber hang a sign outside their shop saying that tips aren't necessary or required? The way it is worded at the moment it suggests that the fare already accounts for the fact that tips aren't expected. Thus my assumption on reading that would be that the fares have been probably inflated slightly to accommodate potential tips and I needn't re-tip as I've paid for it through my fare.I would tip henceforth but you still have to educate the remaining 95% of the riders and that won't happen without the backing of Uber.
> 
> Lyft provides tips to their drivers but as you know it barely competes on riders and so it has to offer something to entice drivers. Maybe Uber's gameplan all along was to see how low could prices fall before drivers start disappearing. Once they have that magic number they would probably lower the fees by 10% and then add a tip option to give the same elastic rate below which drivers would opt out. Lower rates for riders and tips for drivers to placate everyone. That is the cynic in me speaking though.


When you see the receipt with the $5 fare what part of that do you think is the "inflated" part that justifies not tipping? I get an average $4 tip when I deliver pizza. A short trip with uber (up to about 1.6 miles) nets me $3.20.

Saying it's mostly part time "extra" money is a BS argument too. That's like saying Mcdonalds employees are all high school students and don't "need" the money. Or the argument for paying women an equal wage which was made to my mother in the 60s that they didn't need the money as much as men because they had no family to support.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Pixie is another randy shear clone.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> When you see the receipt with the $5 fare what part of that do you think is the "inflated" part that justifies not tipping? I get an average $4 tip when I deliver pizza. A short trip with uber (up to about 1.6 miles) nets me $3.20.
> 
> Saying it's mostly part time "extra" money is a BS argument too. That's like saying Mcdonalds employees are all high school students and don't "need" the money. Or the argument for paying women an equal wage which was made to my mother in the 60s that they didn't need the money as much as men because they had no family to support.


I'm just sharing the thought process. Messenger and all that.

♦ A pizza delivery guy's income is majorly based through tips. An Uber driver receives a fare which the pizza delivery guy doesn't. More so a pizza delivery guy comes up all the way to your door so there is some leg work which probably society wishes to compensate through tips. A guy who gets the pizza steaming hot is appreciated through the tips and it also incentivizes fair effort.
♦ McDonald employees receive wages ( minimum I guess ) so the general practice is not to tip so I'm not sure what your point here was. In fact McDonalds I believe does not even allow employees to accept tips and instead have a gratuity jar where you can place your pennies. ( Search up for news articles on how Hillary Clinton didn't tip at Chipotle )

The general practice is to tip people whose pay comprises of tips (or) serve you specially.

Not everyone feels compelled to tip the burger flipper or the guy who presses few buttons while taking your order. As someone on another forum asked - Do you also tip the cashier at the grocery for scanning all your purchases? What about the guy in the tollbooth on the highway? The guy at the gas station who hands you a pack of cigarettes or a lottery ticket?

Everyone > 12 knows tips are optional yet they almost always tip at a fine dine because the social decorum demands it and the option to not tip is just an illusion since you are made aware that their salary is basically your tips. Uber markets no tipping necessity not as an illusion but an actual choice as "to not bother or worry about tipping". It is one of the MAIN selling points of Uber. That automatically is 10-20% savings from a taxi. While it might flabbergast you, not having the necessity to tip is actually the focal points of being drawn to using Uber.

This discussion has digressed into about tipping rather than why people don't tip at Uber.


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## oneubersheep (Nov 27, 2014)

No pixiescott, you're just an ignorant tight ass!


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> The general practice is to tip people whose pay comprises of tips (or) serve you specially.


You just shot yourself in the foot with this statement you made and lost the debate.
I am curious though. What would you do next time you ride with uber now that you know how most drivers feel about tipping?


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> While it might flabbergast you, not having the necessity to tip is actually the focal points of being drawn to using Uber.


I blame your parents...


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Like I mentioned, it is because people view Uber drivers as folks from their neighborhood who are doing this part-time to make extra $$ in their free time(read: they have another job as well) and not as people who are working Uber for minimum wage.


Wut? You don't think there are waitresses or bartenders out there that don't have regular jobs and are just doing it for extra money? If you find out they had regular jobs, do you not tip them. After all, they make enough at their other jobs and don't need a tip. Right? wow


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Enoch Shadkam said:


> Uberx customers know that tip is not included, they just pretend is included.


Or they think the fact that they rate you 5-stars is the tip. lol


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

MKEUber said:


> Or they think the fact that they rate you 5-stars is the tip. lol


or a handshake,


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

This pixie guy is one and done.
over and out


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Idontcare said:


> You just shot yourself in the foot with this statement you made and lost the debate.
> I am curious though. What would you do next time you ride with uber now that you know how most drivers feel about tipping?


I believe I already mentioned I would tip since I do anyways tip in other walks of life. I clearly state that someone who perform special services , now whether driving down the block is considered special by everyone isn't an established fact.

What most of you refuse to accept is that the tipping culture encouraged by an establishment is important for it to be accepted. Everyone knows tipping is optional yet people tip in a restaurant while they don't in an Uber. Anytime an establishment actively downplays/discourages/dismisses tipping people will mentally neglect it as well despite well knowing it is optional (See: McD ) . Uber constantly hammers home the point that tipping isn't necessary and that coupled with the clientele UberX attracts you have the perfect brew for no tip. Many people who I have interacted find the fact that they aren't required to tip one of the most attractive points of UberX thus I can envision Uber not jumping through hoops to get tipping as part of mainstream uber culture as that automatically inflates the uber prices by 15%+ and also negates one of the selling points.

We should revisit this conversation once Uber changes their language to "Do show your appreciation with a tip!" and have a module to tip through card and I am certain you will see a spike in tipping. Culture surrounding this is very important and if you are banking on people being moral enough to tip then you are well and truly missing the point.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

I can see sum it up in two words "Tipping Rocks!!!!"


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


A most excellent and reasonable post.

UBER is for cheapies. Low fares and no tipping are it's primary appeal. The ability to burn drivers with low ratings is also a key to it's popularity.

The OP views drivers as part time people who have others means of income. This is not universally true, but it is a common perception that works in UBER's favor. UBER doesn't need to pay well because it's not primary income for drivers; they're all making butt loads of cash at their cushy engineering and design jobs, right?

UBER isn't a transportation company. Nor is it much of a technology company. UBER is mostly a BS marketing and public relations/lobbying firm.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Anytime an establishment actively downplays/discourages/dismisses tipping people will mentally neglect it as well despite well knowing it is optional (See: McD ) .


Alright, I went and saw McD as you requested but still have no clue what your point is. Care to expound?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

PixieScott welcome to the forum!
You've written a rather well informed & detailed on the subject of Uber & Tipping.
May I ask, how you became so well versed on the various issues surrounding this topic?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

onefuctubersheep said:


> No pixiescott, you're just an ignorant tight ass!


 Please keep it civil. There is No reason to take out your latent hostility out on PixieScott.


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## Lookilooki (May 2, 2015)

Too long-winded.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Alright, I went and saw McD as you requested but still have no clue what your point is. Care to expound?


McDonalds,Chipotle etc. discourage tipping.

People don't actively tip at fast food. ( Ex. http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...lary-clinton-didn-t-leave-anything-in-tip-jar )

The above two statements might be related.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> I'm just sharing the thought process. Messenger and all that.
> 
> ♦ A pizza delivery guy's income is majorly based through tips. An Uber driver receives a fare which the pizza delivery guy doesn't. More so a pizza delivery guy comes up all the way to your door so there is some leg work which probably society wishes to compensate through tips. A guy who gets the pizza steaming hot is appreciated through the tips and it also incentivizes fair effort.
> ♦ McDonald employees receive wages ( minimum I guess ) so the general practice is not to tip so I'm not sure what your point here was. In fact McDonalds I believe does not even allow employees to accept tips and instead have a gratuity jar where you can place your pennies. ( Search up for news articles on how Hillary Clinton didn't tip at Chipotle )
> ...


So what is the incentive for me to give a s*** whether your ride is clean, comfortable and timely? None without tips I guess. Just the threat of deactivation because of ratings. Stick but no carrot. Read about animal training. Carrots work better.

My point about Mcdonalds is that basing your ideas about a fair wage on what other jobs a person may or may not have or whether they "need" that income is ridiculous.

If I went to a new restaurant that had the same basic look as a Dennys, but was nicer, newer, cleaner and the waitstaff was friendlier AND to top it all off the food was less than half the price of a Dennys I would wonder what was going on if I saw a sign saying "tipping not necessary." I would ask the waitstaff what their regular pay was and how the restaurant stayed open with those prices and no tipping.

And when I found out they were making less than minimum wage much of the time I would tip.

But that's me. Apparently uber pax are too stupid to figure it out or too ******y to care.

I think you've made it clear what you are.


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## HoverCraft1 (Mar 7, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


? PixieScott ! Thanks for your 'perspective' I hope that one day you will have the 'opportunity' to walk in our shoes....then we'll check back on your 'perspective'.. regards to you as well...


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> PixieScott welcome to the forum!
> You've written a rather well informed & detailed on the subject of Uber & Tipping.
> May I ask, how you became so well versed on the various issues surrounding this topic?


Just personal observation,experience and hear say.

These are just my opinions and not a peer reviewed study that I conducted so of course I could be alarmingly misinformed.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> So what is the incentive for me to give a s*** whether your ride is clean, comfortable and timely? None without tips I guess. Just the threat of deactivation because of ratings. Stick but no carrot. Read about animal training. Carrots work better.


Carrots didn't prevent taxis from offering a lousy service but I get your point. There is no benefit to Uber though, it raises the prices and they lose a selling point with the drivers earning more and not them however they have to go down that route at some point. Introducing a tipping module isn't technologically hard so obviously the reason it's not live so far is because they strategically don't want to have it at this given time. Your grievance should be directed to Uber.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> My point about Mcdonalds is that basing your ideas about a fair wage on what other jobs a person may or may not have or whether they "need" that income is ridiculous.


It's the perceptions in play.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Apparently uber pax are too stupid to figure it out or too ******y to care.
> 
> I think you've made it clear what you are.


I won't disagree. Until I chanced upon this forum I was blissfully unaware about the simmering unrest over non-tips.



HoverCraft1 said:


> ? PixieScott ! Thanks for your 'perspective' I hope that one day you will have the 'opportunity' to walk in our shoes....then we'll check back on your 'perspective'.. regards to you as well...


When I am in a position where I really need each bit of cash,tip and more I would be equally anxious and angry and I don't wish to teach anyone otherwise but to expect uber riders to tip in the present scenario is ignoring the real reasons why the culture is what it is.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> These are just my opinions and not a peer reviewed study that I conducted so of course I could be alarmingly misinformed.


No you're pretty much on point in your post. Where you are misguided is buying the thinking behind Uber's thinking & marketing on Tipping.
Did you know that Drivers' Partnership Agreement allows Uber to use "Tipping is Not Required" and/or "Included".










And Drivers didn't particularly mind this, but Uber's cut Rates over 50% over the past 16 months.

BTW, approx. 50% of Drivers are doing this as a primary source of income.









So please reconsider your stance on Tipping your drivers.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> McDonalds,Chipotle etc. discourage tipping.
> 
> People don't actively tip at fast food. ( Ex. http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...lary-clinton-didn-t-leave-anything-in-tip-jar )
> 
> The above two statements might be related.


Why would you tip at a place where you get your own food? You don't have somebody serving you at a table. Apples and oranges.

Want an Apples to Apples argument? How about tipping is customary in a Cab but for some reason cheap ass millennials think that it is not when "ridesharing"


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Carrots didn't prevent taxis from offering a lousy service but I get your point. There is no benefit to Uber though, it raises the prices and they lose a selling point with the drivers earning more and not them however they have to go down that route at some point. Introducing a tipping module isn't technologically hard so obviously the reason it's not live so far is because they strategically don't want to have it at this given time. Your grievance should be directed to Uber.


That we definitely agree about. Uber's no tipping policy is a way for them to lower the price point that is 100% on the back of the drivers. Very few riders and even a lot of drivers do not know or understand that. But you seem like an intelligent fellow and understand this full well. So my question to you is that knowing this information, why don't you still tip your Uber driver?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Carrots didn't prevent taxis from offering a lousy service but I get your point. There is no benefit to Uber though, it raises the prices and they lose a selling point with the drivers earning more and not them however they have to go down that route at some point. Introducing a tipping module isn't technologically hard so obviously the reason it's not live so far is because they strategically don't want to have it at this given time. Your grievance should be directed to Uber.
> 
> It's the perceptions in play.
> 
> ...


You are totally ignoring my point made with the Dennys like restaurant scenario. Yes we are pissed at Uber but the pax are CHOOSING to pretend to be blissfully unaware. I don't drive around uneducated math challenged idiots most of the time. I drive accountants and Lawyers and such quite frequently. I simply don't believe they are unaware of the fact that getting a ride at current rates and not tipping is hurting the driver.

The riders who have asked me how we can make money at these rates are the few who often DO tip. The ones who don't ask IMHO don't care.

By the way I tip at the JITB I frequent and for some reason they're always happy to make a fresh pot of coffee for me in the evening.

When I deliver pizza if I have more than one order the known big tipper will ALWAYS get their food first. Most people tip so in this case it's the amount that counts. I imagine in taxis it's the same. If you've never had great service in a taxi maybe it's because you tip but not well. Try tipping well when you get IN a taxi OR an Uber and see how much better the service is then (none of that I'll take care if you later if...BS. We've all heard that before).

Carrots work. Sometimes it just has to be a bigger carrot though.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> No you're pretty much on point in your post. Where you are misguided is buying the thinking behind Uber's thinking & marketing on Tipping.
> Did you no that Drivers' Partnership Agreement allows Uber to use "Tipping is Not Required" and/or "Included".
> 
> View attachment 7484
> ...


Thank you for highlighting that. I had already stated that I would tip henceforth ( I anyways did tip at Lyft because they allow so! ).



MKEUber said:


> Want an Apples to Apples argument? How about tipping is customary in a Cab but for some reason cheap ass millennials think that it is not when "ridesharing"





MKEUber said:


> That we definitely agree about. Uber's no tipping policy is a way for them to lower the price point that is 100% on the back of the drivers. Very few riders and even a lot of drivers do not know or understand that. But you seem like an intelligent fellow and understand this full well. So my question to you is that knowing this information, why don't you still tip your Uber driver?





Fuzzyelvis said:


> You are totally ignoring my point made with the Dennys like restaurant scenario. Yes we are pissed at Uber but the pax are CHOOSING to pretend to be blissfully unaware. I don't drive around uneducated math challenged idiots most of the time. I drive accountants and Lawyers and such quite frequently. I simply don't believe they are unaware of the fact that getting a ride at current rates and not tipping is hurting the driver.
> 
> The riders who have asked me how we can make money at these rates are the few who often DO tip. The ones who don't ask IMHO don't care.
> 
> ...


Practically the entire thread has been devoted to the question you raised. TL;DRing it here in a couple of lines wouldn't be a sufficient answer. I will however, re-list some of them : Uber's discouragement of tipping, Driver perception and cheaper clientele.

Now to the question why I didn't tip so far. Fair question. If I try to reason in my head and try to be as honest as I can I come up with 2 reasons.

1. I would tip if the app allowed to. I don't carry cash and I don't plan to just on the off chance that I'd have to tip in an Uber ride possibly.
2. I don't feel bad about not tipping in an Uber and if I introspect why that is so is because , I was until recently clueless behind the economics of UberX.
Clueless in the sense that I am aware of the costs such as gas,rate share etc. but not /mile costs due to depreciation and servicing. And you are probably right, I didn't care either as to how all of this worked as long as I had a really cheap transportation option. The reasons why I wasn't concerned ? Uber projects itself as a unicorn so unless someone knows the ground reality they will always assume things are hunky dory. The drivers I met always seemed effusive of about how they made "extra" money apart from their day to day jobs. Not one complained about rate cuts,wages,price or tipping. In the end I am going to form my bias based on what I am fed and I drank the "we all are a happy uber family" kool-aid.

Only recently did I learn how Uber artificially lowers costs through expecting drivers to use personal insurance and so on. The real challenge is to educate the masses and not one forum member/week. Unfortunately some even after education won't care just as some don't care how their grass is cut every morning,their fruits picked and burgers flipped as long as it conforms to the dollar menu.


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## LolX (May 11, 2015)

Semi-related to the OP but just some of my thoughts as someone who is basically a pax in Lyft's (and Uber maybe a couple times) and reads these forums... 

-- I know lots of people who use the service. I think people don't really care or notice rate slashes. I continue to believe they are not necessary and the smarter company would in fact raise rates slightly to get the better commission and drivers. But it seems like Uber is trying to destroy Lyft by lowering prices and Lyft doesn't think they can compete with slightly higher rates.

-- In an environment where Uber is 5% less than a Taxi, I still go with Uber. Hell even if they were equal. I travel a lot for work. Thankfully now I just get a rental car but before when I'd take taxi's they were infuriating. For one, I had so many times I'd be a hotel waiting on a taxi that was suppose to be there in 5 minutes and would take 20 minutes to get there. I'm the type of person who wants to spend as little time as possible at an airport. I just don't like them at all and would rather be in my hotel room so I had a few scares about missing flights because I was lied to. It's a helpless feeling having zero clue where the taxi is in a city you don't know. 

The final straw: I was on the subway in a major city and took it out of the main city. The subway stop was next to a taxi stand so I decided to go in and just get a taxi to the place I was meeting someone. It was a rather close trip too. Well the dispatcher tells me 5 minutes away. I waited 25 and the taxi driver 100% took a longer route around where I was trying to go to screw me out of more money. That was it for me. I do hail cabs from time to time but I'll never schedule a taxi in advance when I have other options again.

-- If I didn't drive a little for Lyft, I bet I wouldn't tip. Now I try to tip every time knowing what they go through. But for most people, that's one of the things they don't like about taking a cab. I also agree with the OP one of the reasons I hate taking a cab is I rarely have cash and I've been in so many where they refused to take me anywhere without cash. I think that's changing as last time I took a cab they just have that pay with a credit card in the back option in many. But I think that's part of the experience that Uber sells of why it's different than a cab. 

I also don't think most, if not 95% of pax, realize if what an Uber driver gets is good or bad. They don't realize the dead miles, the true cost of operating a vehicle, the 2-30% take, that surge pricing isn't normal, etc.. I think if they did, you'd see a lot more tips.

-- Personally, I tip more at places I go to often. I tip usually well everywhere because in HS in worked in a restaurant so I know how much an extra $1.50 means. I've been going to the same barber my whole life who charges $16 and I give him a $20 (or more) every time is another example. But I think that's a problem for Uber/Lyft drivers in big markets that people won't get the same driver twice so they don't care. That's just reality. People get cheap when they know they won't see someone again.

Just some random thoughts that I hope helps drivers out. I understand why it's frustrating why pax tip so little but I think the problem is more with Uber and the environment they've set up as Pixie's pointed out.


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## LolX (May 11, 2015)

stuber said:


> A most excellent and reasonable post.
> 
> UBER is for cheapies. Low fares and no tipping are it's primary appeal. The ability to burn drivers with low ratings is also a key to it's popularity.
> 
> ...


This is probably the best assessment of what exactly Uber is in my opinion. They really do not have a product and is why they're attempting to diversify what they do ASAP.

Related to the OP... I think a lot of passengers think they're doing someone a favor by taking their Uber. They also see the constant web ads or hear on the radio about how fun/easy/"lucrative" driving for Uber is. They aren't blissfully blind either. How many people here eat at a restaurant and think about the bus boy who makes zero to clean up tables? There are plenty of jobs that pay nothing.. the way that Uber markets average joe thinks that an Uber driver isn't doing that poorly.

Remember: 100% of the money comes from pax. There's a sign up bonus/guarentees that might come from Uber itself but for the most part they pay all of what drivers make. I don't get the rage towards Pixie... he's about as good as 99% of customers are.


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## LoneXer (May 30, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You are totally ignoring my point made with the Dennys like restaurant scenario. Yes we are pissed at Uber but the pax are CHOOSING to pretend to be blissfully unaware. I don't drive around uneducated math challenged idiots most of the time. I drive accountants and Lawyers and such quite frequently. I simply don't believe they are unaware of the fact that getting a ride at current rates and not tipping is hurting the driver.
> 
> The riders who have asked me how we can make money at these rates are the few who often DO tip. The ones who don't ask IMHO don't care.
> 
> ...


This pretty much sums it up, "they get lower price ride, cleaner vehicle and no motive to tip" 
The companies lower rates to get more business at our expense, we are still paying the same gas in the same wear and tear on our vehicles now we have to get lower compensation.


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

Well, I call BS to the whole thing.
Especially, when the tight wads have oodles of luggage, ask if you could help them with it to the porch and still don't tip.
That is service above and beyond.
I should just open the trunk and say "load it in."


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

GooberX said:


> Well, I call BS to the whole thing.
> Especially, when the tight wads have oodles of luggage, ask if you could help them with it to the porch and still don't tip.
> That is service above and beyond.
> I should just open the trunk and say "load it in."


Agreed. I would suggest starting the trip while they take their sweet time.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Hardly anyone in the Washington Metropolitan Area tips on UberX. Those that do live somewhere else and are visitors.

On Uber Taxi, there is a default setting to a twenty per-cent tip, although the user can change it to anything from NO TIP to whatever. The user can set a specific amount, as well: he can set it to tip, say, two dollars, regardless of the fare's being eight dollars or eighty. Most leave it on the twenty per cent, but some set it to others. The "usual suspects" will choose the NO TIP option.

I get the Original Poster's main point to be that if Uber is advertising "no tipping", telling the users that the drivers know that tips are "not necessary" and singing the praises of no tipping, no one should be surprised when the users do not tip. I can not say that I disagree with him. On the other side, now that several of Original Poster's interlocutors have enlightened him, he should conduct himself accordingly and spread the word.

Original Poster does, however, have a point about the cash. Many people do not carry any, not even a few bucks for a pack of gum (I forgot, gum is free in all UberXmobiles and Uber Limousines) or a lottery ticket. Tips would come with higher frequency if there were a field for it on the Uber application. _That ain't_ about to happen. I have my own credit card terminal, so my cashless passengers could use that. Some drivers have SQUARE.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Hardly anyone in the Washington Metropolitan Area tips on UberX. Those that do live somewhere else and are visitors.
> 
> On Uber Taxi, there is a default setting to a twenty per-cent tip, although the user can change it to anything from NO TIP to whatever. The user can set a specific amount, as well: he can set it to tip, say, two dollars, regardless of the fare's being eight dollars or eighty. Most leave it on the twenty per cent, but some set it to others. The "usual suspects" will choose the NO TIP option.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you see reason. A point you didn't mention which is equally influential is that *many* uber drivers refuse or dissuade tips. This makes the ones who accept tips appear greedy and not necessarily deserving.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> A point you didn't which is equally influential is that *many* uber drivers refuse or dissuade tips.


Is something missing between the "didn't" and the "which"? Sometimes my thoughts and typing are at different speeds, thus they get out of synchronisation. Did this happen, here?


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Is something missing between the "didn't" and the "which"? Sometimes my thoughts and typing are at different speeds, thus they get out of synchronisation. Did this happen, here?


Guilty as charged. Edited the post to make sense now.


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## IndyDriver (Nov 6, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> I'm glad you see reason. A point you didn't mention which is equally influential is that *many* uber drivers refuse or dissuade tips. This makes the ones who accept tips appear greedy and not necessarily deserving.


And this all ties back into how much Uber takes advantage of the majority of drivers being clueless about their true operating expenses. The drivers that take tips usually know the razor thin profit margins and see through the veil of Uber's BS. If anything, as a rider, please educate others you know that use Uber.


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I'm glad you see reason. A point you didn't which is equally influential is that *many* uber drivers refuse or dissuade tips. This makes the ones who accept tips appear greedy and not necessarily deserving.


Good point! I actually believe those drivers are more to blame than the riders.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Idontcare said:


> Good point! I actually believe those drivers are more to blame than the riders.


Thanks idon't care. I was running out ubershill quotes to post on that "how to spot an ubershill". Thanks for the material!


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

i never take it out on customers, many have been mislead. but i do get upset with no tip and you had me come 8min away to take you 5 blocks , i made 3.20. minus my gas. even a rookie pax knows uber take a $1 and the cut.


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## Danz Haagen (Feb 11, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


Which country are you from?
In USA it is a custom to tip a taxi. 10% or so. Or in case of short trips, $2 minimum.


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## Seaghost (Aug 26, 2014)

Backdash said:


> That right there is simply an excuse not to tip.
> My barber lives not far from me, he only works at the barber shop on Tues. and Sat. Should/would I assume something that would rationalize me not tipping the guy who cuts my hair?
> 
> Its simple, if you tip other forms of taxi/livery/Lyft driver there is no real reason not to tip Uber drivers. If you feel the other drivers deserve it then the Uber drivers deserve it regardless of your assumed conclusion that they don't need it,


Excellent use of logic, unfortunately Uber does not appear to use logic.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

People don't use uber becuase it is the cheapest. People use it because they can ride in (for the most part) a clean car and it will pick them up in 5 minutes AND it is cheap. If an uber cost the same (or even slightly higher) than a cab, most people would still use uber. How do I know? People tell me that all the time when using it.


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## LolX (May 11, 2015)

UberPissed said:


> People don't use uber becuase it is the cheapest. People use it because they can ride in (for the most part) a clean car and it will pick them up in 5 minutes AND it is cheap. If an uber cost the same (or even slightly higher) than a cab, most people would still use uber. How do I know? People tell me that all the time when using it.


Yep. As someone who is only a pax now, this is all true. Uber is a significantly better product than taxi's. Anyone who says otherwise drives a taxi or has never used one. They could charge the same (or 5%) less and make way more money. But they're far more concerned with killing Lyft, Sidecar, etc. and seeing how low they can go and have people still drive for them.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

No, tipping was not important ORIGINALLY. But when rates drop and you know Uber cannot be reached for comment, you start to think well at least the passengers could sympathize and help you out since we're dealing with a greedy monster corporation. But then again, I agree with the original Uber formula more. The one where not having to carry or worry about cash is a selling point, among other significant advantages. See, there was no reason to starve the drivers, but this is what Uber has chosen. Neither driver nor passenger can do anything about it. This is what Uber has decided upon and since they have a monopoly now, there is nothing that can be done. Uber is boss. There is one thing Uber can do to save from this tragic decision they have made. They can add an option in the app to add a 10% tip to their driver automatically on all rides, just like they have that option for UberTaxi. But then Uber will have to decide what 10% really means, since they cannot legally take any commission out of the tip. So again, what does 10% mean? 10% of what we really get or 10% of the so called "fare"? That predicament could be one reason why they haven't added such an option. Uber likes to avoid awkward situations where their greed may be exposed.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

Even Papa Johns knows how to support his drivers...


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

The entire tipping debate goes away if Uber would simply *add a tip option to the app*.
Add the option, PAX have no reason to carry around cash for tips, they will have fewer questions about tips (if any), and more privacy in whether they chose to tip or not.
Nothing further for drivers to gripe to Uber about in regards to tips... Win-Win.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> The entire tipping debate goes away if Uber would simply *add a tip option to the app*.
> Add the option, PAX have no reason to carry around cash for tips, they will have fewer questions about tips (if any), and more privacy in whether they chose to tip or not.
> Nothing further for drivers to gripe to Uber about in regards to tips... Win-Win.


What does it matter at this point anyway? Everyone hates Uber and ridership is decreasing daily. Uber is going downhill and nothing can reverse that trend. The bubble has burst as the public now agrees that Uber is stupid and horrible. I was present when they launched in my city in early 2014 and watched them self destruct to the point of being used by nothing but cheap abusive pax. All the decent drivers and decent pax are gone and Uber is going the way of traditional taxi service. They are nothing but a technologically modern version of taxi that will only become more harshly regulated as time goes on. Their opportunity to be better has passed and it will not return. They blew it.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

itsablackmarket said:


> What does it matter at this point anyway? Everyone hates Uber and ridership is decreasing daily. Uber is going downhill and nothing can reverse that trend. The bubble has burst as the public now agrees that Uber is stupid and horrible. I was present when they launched in my city in early 2014 and watched them self destruct to the point of being used by nothing but cheap abusive pax. All the decent drivers and decent pax are gone and Uber is going the way of traditional taxi service. They are nothing but a technologically modern version of taxi that will only become more harshly regulated as time goes on. Their opportunity to be better has passed and it will not return. They blew it.


Not sure I can agree. At least that is not what I see in my city... 
I do agree that Uber has stepped on a lot of toes on their way to the top (and continue to do so, esp with some of the comments their top brass make publicly).
Unfortunately, many people either do not care or are simply oblivious to the issues being raised. I don't think Uber will be disappearing any time soon.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> Not sure I can agree. At least that is not what I see in my city...
> I do agree that Uber has stepped on a lot of toes on their way to the top (and continue to do so, esp with some of the comments their top brass make publicly).
> Unfortunately, many people either do not care or are simply oblivious to the issues being raised. I don't think Uber will be disappearing any time soon.


But forget them, the people with power to really hurt Uber are much more keen than the oblivious pax. I'm talking government. Uber has made it much harder on themselves than they needed to. But also, I think most pax do see Uber in a more negative way, even the oblivious ones. Remember pressure from the pax is what causes government to cave to the will of the citizens. But there's so much opposition to Uber now (because Uber allowed that to happen), that they won't be able to bait the public anymore, which is all they ever did to begin with.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

itsablackmarket said:


> But forget them, the people with power to really hurt Uber are much more keen than the oblivious pax. I'm talking government. Uber has made it much harder on themselves than they needed to. But also, I think most pax do see Uber in a more negative way, even the oblivious ones. Remember pressure from the pax is what causes government to cave to the will of the citizens. But there's so much opposition to Uber now (because Uber allowed that to happen), that they won't be able to bait the public anymore, which is all they ever did to begin with.


Well in Dallas for example, the government appears to have embraced Uber and Lyft... they passed several changes that include UberX access to airports. 
They now simply require that we get a city permit and poof, the city sees us not much different from taxis.

Keep in mind, it is summer and college students are back home for the most part, so a big part of business in one city may now be dispersed to other areas until the fall. This can explain any current slowness (not to mention more drivers, since it is summer and anyone who had a job/school that breaks for summer, may now be on the road).

Yes Uber has stepped on toes along the way to the point where I too felt like their golden pass was nearly up...
However, I do not see anything that suggests that is happening. In fact, there seems to be more indications of them becoming more and more embedded into the American psyche.
Hell, Apple demonstrated the Uber app when they introducing the Apple Watch... the public has bought into Uber hook, line, and sinker.
I am beginning to think any serious repercussions of Uber's public actions and words are simply not going to happen, which will only embolden them more.


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## ecmic (Apr 16, 2015)

I've been advised to not use Square or PayPal to allow passengers to give unsolicited credit card tips, because the passenger could then argue that I pressured them to leave a tip. Has anyone run into any issues regarding this?


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

Hey guys, first off I am not a driver - though I take uber probably 5+ times a week in LA and somehow ended up on this site - 

I wanted to give you "our" perspective

1 - i HATE the tipping option in Lyft. I want to pay my price and that be my price
2- I had NO IDEA that tipping was even "a thing" with uber. The idea of handing cash to my driver would be akward 
3 - the reason I take uber is I press a button and i get a place cheaply and safely. Honestly if it was a robot driven car (and it was a "thing" I would prefer that) - not having to deal with "tipping" is very nice. I just want to pay what I pay without having to engage in an awkward social dynamic like im in a vegas cab and the driver is "grooming" me to tip them. . That is why I take uber so I dont have to deal with that. 

yes I know, im an asshole and you hate me and want to rate me 1 star. etc.. but perhaps just understand how we think - I dont mean to post this to troll, but to put it in perspective how most of your regular riders feel. 

sorry if this hurts anybodies feelings, but just wanted to give the other side of the coin 

-Ted
(obviously not my real name!)


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

tednash said:


> Hey guys, first off I am not a driver - though I take uber probably 5+ times a week in LA and somehow ended up on this site -
> 
> I wanted to give you "our" perspective
> 
> ...


Ted, you mentioned that all you want to do is pay your price. As drivers, we were fine with that. That is, we were fine with that before Uber cut fares (i.e. Driver's pay) 3 times over the last year. Now the average Uber driver is making about half of what they were making last year. These days it is very hard to make a profit on a ride after expenses without a tip for the driver.

What gets everybody is the fact that Uber now costs only about 1/3rd of what it costs to take a cab, yet people still tip the cab driver but not their Uber driver. That just does not make any sense.

Because of this I have all but stopped driving for Uber. I used to do about 20 hours a week last fall, now I just do a fare or two a week to keep my account open in hopes that fares will increase back to a reasonable level. In the meantime, I won't let myself and my vehicle be taken advantage of by cheap entitled ****s who think they are doing me a favor with their min fare ride and no tip.

P.S. You won't get a 1 star from me unless you make me wait or are rude. However, as a non-tipper you will only get 3 or 4 stars. 5 stars are reserved for tippers only.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

tednash said:


> 1 - i HATE the tipping option in Lyft. I want to pay my price and that be my price
> yes I know, im an asshole and you hate me and want to rate me 1 star. etc.. but perhaps just understand how we think - I dont mean to post this to troll, but to put it in perspective *how most of your regular riders fee*l.
> sorry if this hurts anybodies feelings, but just wanted to give the other side of the coin


How exactly are you able to claim to speak for MOST OF OUR REGULAR RIDERS?
Did you do an extensive study? Even a small one?

No of course not, you injected your opinion and claimed it belonged to the majority then posted here to troll or stir the pot.

Here's proof: You claim to hate the tipping option within Lyft. You state, _"I want to pay my price and that be my price"._
So leave it blank, dumbass. Leaving it blank takes no more energy or effort on your part. Just rate and go.

Personally, I do not give a rats tail if you tip or not.
You're not an asshole because you chose not to tip. You're an asshole because you came on here thinking you spoke for_ "our regular riders" _and complained about leaving a blank.

Shut the **** up and go troll somewhere else.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Lyft provides tips to their drivers


Huh?


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Ted, you mentioned that all you want to do is pay your price. As drivers, we were fine with that. That is, we were fine with that before Uber cut fares (i.e. Driver's pay) 3 times over the last year. Now the average Uber driver is making about half of what they were making last year. These days it is very hard to make a profit on a ride after expenses without a tip for the driver.
> 
> What gets everybody is the fact that Uber now costs only about 1/3rd of what it costs to take a cab, yet people still tip the cab driver but not their Uber driver. That just does not make any sense.
> 
> ...


Im very very confused. Why is it my problem that uber has cut their rates? The only reason I use Uber almost every day is because they have cut their rates, if it was more of a lux-priced as it was last year, I would just use it for the occasional airport run.

As a passenger, it should not be my problem what you are getting paid- there is always other "jobs" you can take.

as for "tipping" - I actually asked 3 people that use Uber regularly in LA about "tipping" and each was as dumbfounded as me and had no concept that it was a "thing" and all had the same compliant about Lyft and the awkward forced conversations that will surly lead to hitting the tip button. I like uber because i dont have to deal with that. The only thing I have to give you at the end of my ride is 5 stars for almost every driver, even if they ****up.

the only times I gave less was when the driver smelled like smoke or are an ex-taxi driver on their bluetooth shouting in armenain ( taxi cab style) during my ride...


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> How exactly are you able to claim to speak for MOST OF OUR REGULAR RIDERS?
> Did you do an extensive study? Even a small one?
> 
> No of course not, you injected your opinion and claimed it belonged to the majority then posted here to troll or stir the pot.
> ...


The problem with lyft is the "server" culture is prevalent there. If you walk out of a sit down restaurant and leave no tip, they talk about you, snarl at you (probably complain on fourms) spit in your food next time etcc.. ie. .. the servers are trained to be entitled to tips as part of our civic duty. And with LYFT it is getting to be the same and ****ing annoying, so leaving it blank produces the same "entiltled" effect with Lyft drivers.. so no. . i cant just leave it blank. I want to leave as little trace as possible. I want to pay my bill be in and out and quickly forgotten.... hence I dont take lyft because I have to deal with the "human" factor that uber has eliminated


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

tednash said:


> Im very very confused. Why is it my problem that uber has cut their rates? The only reason I use Uber almost every day is because they have cut their rates, if it was more of a lux-priced as it was last year, I would just use it for the occasional airport run.
> 
> As a passenger, it should not be my problem what you are getting paid- there is always other "jobs" you can take.
> 
> ...


Try not to be confused. It is not your problem, and me leaving you less than a 5 star rating is not personal. In fact, I left many people 4 star ratings who I thoroughly enjoyed and had great conversations with, but they did not tip. My ratings are strictly business. As Uber has drastically cut rates, making a profit on a ride has become harder and harder. We aren't a freaken charity, I am not doing this to give people rides for free. So I need to differentiate the profitable rides from those that won't be profitable before I accept them.

So my rating system has basically been regulated to how profitable the ride is. If it is a min fare ride with no tip, most likely you will get a 3 star rating from me. If it is a ride with a some distance, but no tip, then 4 stars. My hopes is many other drivers are doing this. When I see a request come in, and you are rated below a 4.4, I do not accept it. If I rate you a 3, my hope is that it lowers your rating enough so I can refuse your request in the future.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

tednash said:


> The problem with lyft is the "server" culture is prevalent there. If you walk out of a sit down restaurant and leave no tip, they talk about you, snarl at you (probably complain on fourms) spit in your food next time etcc.. ie. .. the servers are trained to be entitled to tips as part of our civic duty. And with LYFT it is getting to be the same and ****ing annoying, so leaving it blank produces the same "entiltled" effect with Lyft drivers.. so no. . i cant just leave it blank. I want to leave as little trace as possible. I want to pay my bill be in and out and quickly forgotten.... hence I dont take lyft because I have to deal with the "human" factor that uber has eliminated


That just confirmed all my suspicions about you. You are a cheap ****. It was meeting many people like you why I don't drive regularly for Uber anymore. You don't get to ride in my nice new car. You can ride in some 8 year old POS Prius with somebody who barely speaks English at these rates and no tip.


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Try not to be confused. It is not your problem, and me leaving you less than a 5 star rating is not personal. In fact, I left many people 4 star ratings who I thoroughly enjoyed and had great conversations with, but they did not tip. My ratings are strictly business. As Uber has drastically cut rates, making a profit on a ride has become harder and harder. We aren't a freaken charity, I am not doing this to give people rides for free. So I need to differentiate the profitable rides from those that won't be profitable before I accept them.
> 
> So my rating system has basically been regulated to how profitable the ride is. If it is a min fare ride with no tip, most likely you will get a 3 star rating from me. If it is a ride with a some distance, but no tip, then 4 stars. My hopes is many other drivers are doing this. When I see a request come in, and you are rated below a 4.4, I do not accept it. If I rate you a 3, my hope is that it lowers your rating enough so I can refuse your request in the future.


Uber should fire you basically. I hire uber because they tell me the price and I pay it, without having to be subjected to the mentality that i "owe" my driver anything or that they are doing me a favour. This is the type of thinking that leads taxis to be horrible experiences for consumers. You are not doing me a favour. You are doing a service that pays you that I am paying for and we are both content with each side of our agreement. If you are not happy with how much they pay you, then there are thousands waiting to replace you.

I want to call my car, be waiting at the curb, get in - say nothing - get out, pay my bill.

That is all I want and I want.

btw.. I was told the other day I have a 4.9 rating and that is over hundreds of rides if that matters, im probably a great rider - im clean and dont smell bad or make noise - I get in, talk politely for a moment and then am invisible for the rest of my ride. Does that make me a cheap ****? No - it makes me a person who is using this uber thing as an efficient tool in my life.


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

Also, I develop software algos, and if I had developed the Uber app, I would set a flag for drivers that regularly rate their passengers lower. Ie. . If all the drivers are giving an average of 4.x rating across their rides, then I would determine that this is "normal" and you are giving an average of 3.x - then I know its probably a problem with you and not the riders and I would flag your account for review. ie. you are the guy who goes to the bar and ends up in a fight every time. . at which point we realize its not the bar. . its you.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

tednash said:


> The problem with lyft is the "server" culture is prevalent there. If you walk out of a sit down restaurant and leave no tip, they talk about you, snarl at you (probably complain on fourms) spit in your food next time etcc.. ie. .. the servers are trained to be entitled to tips as part of our civic duty. And with LYFT it is getting to be the same and ****ing annoying, so leaving it blank produces the same "entiltled" effect with Lyft drivers.. *so no. . i cant just leave it blank*. * I want to leave as little trace as possible.* I want to pay my bill be in and out and quickly forgotten.... hence I dont take lyft because I have to deal with the "human" factor that uber has eliminated





tednash said:


> as for "tipping" - I actually asked 3 people that use Uber regularly in LA about "tipping" and each was as dumbfounded as me and had no concept that it was a "thing" and all had the same compliant about Lyft and the awkward forced conversations that will surly lead to hitting the tip button. I like uber because i dont have to deal with that. The only thing I have to give you at the end of my ride is 5 stars for almost every driver, even if they ****up.


Again, tip or don't tip, I could care less if you tip in restaurants or in my car. I have never rated my passengers on whether they tip or not. That is your prerogative.

In the case of Lyft, I will not know if you tipped or not until the following morning when they send a summary email, which provides ZERO information about the trips (not even the time, destination, or anything to reference) so there is little to no way to connect a face with whoever left the tip or did not, unless I just happen to recognize the trip amount and could recall that passenger. They would have had to have been VERY unique and memorable, because when you drive as much as some of us do, all those trips become a blur within a matter of hours and it is hard to remember the details unless you took notes (mentally or physically) to actually refresh your memory.

However, to claim you feel all this social pressure that you simply cannot leave a box blank, even when you are likely no where near the driver when deciding to tip or not, nor in ANY kind of actual pressure... is rather lame.

Keep in mind, we are all consumers like you. Many of us have used Uber and Lyft as passengers, as well as going to restaurants. You want to suggest that you won't leave tips because the driver feels entitled... Yet we and other service based workers deal with entitled pricks Every. Single. Day. So please, do not talk to us about entitlement. We deal with it IN OUR FACE, when they are angry, rude, drunk, and/or obnoxious and still in our presence. Not after they have left and a blank tip box is present next to the rating and submit button. *Oh dear, HOW DO you handle the social pressures of such a decision?* Sorry if I do not feel any sympathy for you. Perhaps this applies: _"I know, im an asshole and you hate me"._

Good to know that _"most of your regular riders" _was based on 3 people... I will keep that in mind as I drive for several hundred each month.
Oh and by the way, far more than 3 of my previous passengers have stated something completely contradictory to what you have. So I will take your view with a grain of salt like everything else.

I am still in favor of them placing a tip option in the app. It would pretty much end the discussion among drivers, riders, and the Uber mafia.
That way, perhaps we can we can focus on some REAL issues that truly need to be addressed.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

tednash said:


> hence I dont take lyft because I have to deal with the "human" factor that uber has eliminated


Hahaha!
Too bad we can't eliminate your human factor and the human factor of others like you.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

tednash said:


> ie. you are the guy who goes to the bar and ends up in a fight every time. . at which point we realize its not the bar. . its you.


Have they ever blamed a bar for a fight?
It would seem most bar fights, one or both parties involved in the fight (not the bar itself) are usually to blame...
Then again.. maybe I am wrong..


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> Have they every blamed a bar for a fight?
> It would seem most bar fights, one or both parties involved in the fight (not the bar itself) are usually to blame...
> Then again.. maybe I am wrong..


Hey, one time, I was minding my own business having some drinks and the bar floor rose up and smacked me in the face.

Gotta blame the bar for that one.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

tednash said:


> Also, I develop software algos, and if I had developed the Uber app, I would set a flag for drivers that regularly rate their passengers lower. Ie. . If all the drivers are giving an average of 4.x rating across their rides, then I would determine that this is "normal" and you are giving an average of 3.x - then I know its probably a problem with you and not the riders and I would flag your account for review. ie. you are the guy who goes to the bar and ends up in a fight every time. . at which point we realize its not the bar. . its you.


So what of the riders who rate their drivers low all the time? Would it flag them as well?
Interesting how you focused on ONLY the driver and whether he should be fired or not. If you have a rider who always rates drivers low, despite the service they get, I would think they deserve to lose access to that service just as much as that driver may lose the right to drive for that service. You sound a lot like someone that is part of the Uber Mafia... where do you work and who uses the software algos you develop?


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

tednash said:


> Uber should fire you basically. I hire uber because they tell me the price and I pay it, without having to be subjected to the mentality that i "owe" my driver anything or that they are doing me a favour. This is the type of thinking that leads taxis to be horrible experiences for consumers. You are not doing me a favour. You are doing a service that pays you that I am paying for and we are both content with each side of our agreement. If you are not happy with how much they pay you, then there are thousands waiting to replace you.
> 
> I want to call my car, be waiting at the curb, get in - say nothing - get out, pay my bill.
> 
> ...


It's like you responded without reading a single word I said in my post.

So you want Uber to fire me? You used the word "fire" so let me ask you this: Do you think we are employees of Uber?

P.S. Doesn't surprise me you are just another tech guy. Most of them are in general cheap horrible human beings who just can't stop talking about themselves.


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> So what of the riders who rate their drivers low all the time? Would it flag them as well?
> Interesting how you focused on ONLY the driver and whether he should be fired or not. If you have a rider who always rates drivers low, despite the service they get, I would think they deserve to lose access to that service just as much as that driver may lose the right to drive for that service. You sound a lot like someone that is part of the Uber Mafia... where do you work and who uses the software algos you develop?


yes you are correct there. The idea in algos is to develop a mean and eliminate the outliers. . so if someone is always rating too low (or too high if its not a generous system like this) then their ratings are effectively thrown out and the medium scores is calculated by the 90% who tend to stick together in their opinions as that is the important stat.

As for passengers being fired. I would calc that in as well, but the guys at uber probably leave the passengers in for two reasons

1 - a low rating is an effective shadow ban - ie. . in fourms when they dont like you, they make it so you can keep posting, but nobody sees your posts. This makes it so you dont go and create another account and re effectively neutralized without even knowing it - this being the fact that many drivers wont pick up a low rated passenger and ones that do. . well guess they needed the money.

2- I bet a passenger could find a way to sue uber for "banning" them and they found that the effective shadow ban of a low rating has the same net effect


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> It's like you responded without reading a single word I said in my post.
> 
> So you want Uber to fire me? You used the word "fire" so let me ask you this: Do you think we are employees of Uber?
> 
> P.S. Doesn't surprise me you are just another tech guy. Most of them are in general cheap horrible human beings who just can't stop talking about themselves.


I read your reply and understood it. You are completely wrong and out of line. As a customer, Uber gives me a service where I press a button and for a determined rate I get to where I need to go. That is pretty much it. You have inputted your own personality and needs into this discussion ie "I rate you less if I dont make as much money""

So as a consumer that is not my issue. My issue is pressing the button and getting to where I need to go. - anything beyond that with you interjecting your individual needs and hustle beyond what you agree to work for makes you an outlier in an efficient system that is bound to be a troublemaker.

Lastly, I hate to say this because many will take it the wrong way, but the uber mentality is all drivers will be replaced by auto-driven cars as soon as it is tech and socially acceptable and their culture is based around building towards that.

Push a button, get to my destination, no BS or "variables" - that is all I want.

And hey, wouldnt you prefer a robot to drive you than someone judging you because you are a "tech guy"

get my point?


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

tednash said:


> I read your reply and understood it. You are completely wrong and out of line. As a customer, Uber gives me a service where I press a button and for a determined rate I get to where I need to go. That is pretty much it. You have inputted your own personality and needs into this discussion ie "I rate you less if I dont make as much money""
> 
> So as a consumer that is not my issue. My issue is pressing the button and getting to where I need to go. - anything beyond that with you interjecting your individual needs and hustle beyond what you agree to work for makes you an outlier in an efficient system that is bound to be a troublemaker.
> 
> ...


You are NOT Uber's customer.

We are Uber's customer. We pay to license the app.

You just happen to share the ride.

You can't have it both ways.

So take your algos and stick them.


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

tednash said:


> I wanted to give you "our" perspective


You might want to replace ""our"" with "my". You don't need the quotation marks either.


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

GooberX said:


> You are NOT Uber's customer.
> 
> We are Uber's customer. We pay to license the app.
> 
> ...


I dont hire you, I hire uber and you work for uber
you are an employee in all senses of the word except by legal definition (for now)


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

tednash said:


> I dont hire you, I hire uber and you work for uber
> you are an employee in all senses of the word except by legal definition (for now)


Once again, you are wrong.

You hire ME, by using Uber's app.

Uber is NOT a transportation company, they just facilitate the transaction.

Ask them.


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

Oh, and PLEASE, let me know if they say otherwise.

I'd be most curious.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

tednash said:


> you are an employee in all senses of the word except by legal definition(for now)


Which then makes us _not_ employees by the only definition that matters (for now)


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Try not to be confused. It is not your problem, and me* leaving you less than a 5 star rating is not personal. In fact, I left many people 4 star ratings who I thoroughly enjoyed and had great conversations with, but they did not tip. My ratings are strictly business. * As Uber has drastically cut rates, making a profit on a ride has become harder and harder. We aren't a freaken charity, I am not doing this to give people rides for free. So I need to differentiate the profitable rides from those that won't be profitable before I accept them.
> 
> So my rating system has basically been regulated to how profitable the ride is. If it is a min fare ride with no tip, most likely you will get a 3 star rating from me. If it is a ride with a some distance, but no tip, then 4 stars. My hopes is many other drivers are doing this. When I see a request come in, and you are rated below a 4.4, I do not accept it. If I rate you a 3, my hope is that it lowers your rating enough so I can refuse your request in the future.


Yes, it is personal. The business doesn't demand/require you be tipped or the ride be more than some specific distance but because you personally feel entitled to both you try to get back with ratings which is nothing but basically abusing the system.

However, I'm sure the system looks for ratings not conforming to the mean for both drivers and passengers. What do you think will happen with time? Ratings for poor passengers ( those who dirty the car, make you wait..) will be similar to good passengers who do not tip thus defeating the purpose of ratings for passengers shown to drivers anyways.



KeJorn said:


> Even Papa Johns knows how to support his drivers...
> 
> View attachment 8327


It says outstanding service. Many here seem to blur the lines between outstanding service and the bare minimum the job demands in order to support the notion that one should tip always.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

tednash said:


> I read your reply and understood it. You are completely wrong and out of line. As a customer, Uber gives me a service where I press a button and for a determined rate I get to where I need to go. That is pretty much it. You have inputted your own personality and needs into this discussion ie "I rate you less if I dont make as much money""
> 
> So as a consumer that is not my issue. My issue is pressing the button and getting to where I need to go. - anything beyond that with you interjecting your individual needs and hustle beyond what you agree to work for makes you an outlier in an efficient system that is bound to be a troublemaker.
> 
> ...


I am wrong and out of line? How? Who dictates that? Uber? Is Uber my boss? No, ask them yourself. They'll tell you they are my "partner" and as a "partner" I have a right to refuse service whenever I want. If I can see on the app that I am getting pinged by what most likely is a cheap bastard who wants a min fare ride, I have every right to refuse it a an independent contractor. It even says so in our contract with Uber. That is what I agree to work for.

Please do some research before you talk about something you know nothing about. But as a tech guy, you probably do that a lot.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Yes, it is personal. The business doesn't demand/require you be tipped or the ride be more than some specific distance but because you personally feel entitled to both you try to get back with ratings which is nothing but basically abusing the system.
> 
> However, I'm sure the system looks for ratings not conforming to the mean for both drivers and passengers. What do you think will happen with time? Ratings for poor passengers ( those who dirty the car, make you wait..) will be similar to good passengers who do not tip thus defeating the purpose of ratings for passengers shown to drivers anyways.
> 
> It says outstanding service. Many here seem to blur the lines between outstanding service and the bare minimum the job demands in order to support the notion that one should tip always.


Whether you think it is personal or not is irrelevant to me. As an independent contractor, I have every right to refuse rides that will be non profitable. I use all the tools available to me to determine which rides will most likely be profitable and which rides I will most likely take a loss on. Ratings is one of those tools.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Whether you think it is personal or not is irrelevant to me. As an independent contractor, I have every right to refuse rides that will be non profitable. I use all the tools available to me to determine which rides will most likely be profitable and which rides I will most likely take a loss on. Ratings is one of those tools.


Is that you Insert_any_Generic_Taxi/Cab_Driver ?

There is a reason people hate using taxis. Gladly Uber doesn't allow drivers to cherry pick their rides.


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Is that you Insert_any_Generic_Taxi/Cab_Driver ?
> 
> There is a reason people hate using taxis. Gladly Uber doesn't allow drivers to cherry pick their rides.


Too bad we can't see your ugly mug.

I assure you no one would pick you up.

And on a side note.....the blind dispatch will be the thing that dooms Uber.

Mark my words.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> Is that you Insert_any_Generic_Taxi/Cab_Driver ?
> 
> There is a reason people hate using taxis. Gladly Uber doesn't allow drivers to cherry pick their rides.


By reducing rates, a Taxi service is exactly what Uber is becoming. The cars are worse and the drivers are worse.

Uber doesn't allow cherry picking by knowing the destination before I accept, but by ratings, location, and time of day of the ping I have become pretty good at determining which rides I should accept and which ones I ignore. I accept every surge ride, and if I get a ping right after a surge ends because the rider was too cheap to pay a 1.4x surge and set his app to notify them when it was over, that is a 100% refusal too. I never accept pings after a surge, I turn off my app for 10 - 15 min.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

GooberX said:


> Too bad we can't see your ugly mug.
> 
> I assure you no one would pick you up.
> 
> ...


That is exactly what the Uber model aims to prevent and why people grew to have distaste for taxis. It's like you want to import the hated elements of taxi rides into Uber. Why try so hard? You could just drive a taxi instead. Isn't that the dream with refusal rights ,tips and higher fares?



MKEUber said:


> Uber doesn't allow cherry picking by knowing the destination before I accept, but by ratings, location, and time of day of the ping I have become pretty good at determining which rides I should accept and which ones I ignore. I accept every surge ride, and if I get a ping right after a surge ends because the rider was too cheap to pay a 1.4x surge and set his app to notify them when it was over, that is a 100% refusal too. I never accept pings after a surge, I turn off my app for 10 - 15 min.


Fair enough. Can't fault you for what you described.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Idontcare
Is "piss off" a command as well? I'm checking so I don't foul things up again over here.


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

Backdash said:


> Idontcare
> Is "piss off" a command as well? I'm checking so I don't foul things up again over here.


Yes. Lol


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Idontcare said:


> Yes. Lol


SHIT!
Will "I suggest you piss off" work better?


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## tednash (Jun 18, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Whether you think it is personal or not is irrelevant to me. As an independent contractor, I have every right to refuse rides that will be non profitable. I use all the tools available to me to determine which rides will most likely be profitable and which rides I will most likely take a loss on. Ratings is one of those tools.


Yes, you have perfectly described the life of a Taxi Driver.

The reason Uber is so popular because the "borg aspect" of it eliminates all the nonsense of taxi drivers. You really need to go drive a taxi and be with your angry people.

Taxi Driver = feels like they are doing me a favour
Uber Driver = Happy to serve

And that is why the Taxi industry and people who continue with that mentality are becoming irreverent.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

tednash said:


> Yes, you have perfectly described the life of a Taxi Driver.
> 
> The reason Uber is so popular because the "borg aspect" of it eliminates all the nonsense of taxi drivers. You really need to go drive a taxi and be with your angry people.
> 
> ...


Now you are starting to get it young Padawan. With Uber continuously lowing fares, they are forcing drivers to be more like taxi drivers. You can blame Uber for that.

Happy to serve? There you go thinking this is a charity again. I'll happily serve you, as long as I make a profit on it. I will not serve you when it costs me money. You will see that the drivers that are happy to serve these min fare rides with no tips are the newbies. Those with less than 60 days, which is usually how long it takes to realize how little you make at these current rates when taking into account the fact you are running your vehicle into the ground driving entitled ****s like yourself around. That is why I all but stopped doing it, and that is why those with over 60 days become a lot more selective on their rides. It is also why Uber has such a high turnover rate and are desperately looking for new suckers errr I mean new drivers.

Uber on!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> What do you think will happen with time? Ratings for poor passengers ( those who dirty the car, make you wait..) will be similar to good passengers who do not tip thus defeating the purpose


I don't want either one really.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I don't want either one really.


So you want to drive for Uber which tells passengers no need to bother with tipping ,but not pick up passengers who do what Uber advises. OK.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> So you want to drive for Uber which tells passengers no need to bother with tipping ,but not pick up passengers who do what Uber advises. OK.


I want the rebels who can think for themselves and are smart enough to realize that "No tip necessary" doesn't mean tip is included.

No surge, no guarantee and it's simply not worth picking up anyone without a tip. Some exceptions such as trying to get back into town or to go towards my home but otherwise if I pick you up at all it's either a surge or there's a guarantee I think I have a good chance of making.


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

Backdash said:


> SHIT!
> Will "I suggest you piss off" work better?


Exactly to whom do you want to tell to piss off? Because if it's me, I shouldn't help you.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> It says outstanding service. Many here seem to blur the lines between outstanding service and the bare minimum the job demands in order to support the notion that one should tip always.


While I agree that tips should never be mandated in any way, think about this:
*
What qualifies "outstanding service" for a pizza delivery person?*
The fact you receive it on time and with all the items you ordered?
Is that not essentially the _"bare minimum"_ of what is expected? Yet they deserve a tip.

*So if an Uber/Lyft driver* arrives quickly to pick you up and waits for you patiently.
They have a clean, nice smelling car; they adjust the A/C and/or music to your tastes; and drive you to your location safely; this would be considered _"bare minimum"_ yes?

*Do you consider this worthy of a tip?*

No? Perhaps you want more...
Depending on the circumstances they will likely also: Open the door for you, carry your luggage to the car and out, provide a power adapter or aux cable for your phone...
Some even provide bottled water or gum for you (paid out of their own pocket, not Uber or Lyft's)
*Is this what you consider outstanding service?*

Certainly more than you would get from a more expensive Taxi... perhaps even more like luxury / limo service at times.
Yet the COST, is bare minimum...
*Does an Uber/Lyft driver deserve a tip for this?*

And yet as drivers, we do this time and time again, and still, often do not receive tips.
When driving for Uber, I see fewer than 5% of the riders give tips... despite providing some or all of these things. Yet we continue to provide the same level of basic service while often dealing with very rude, obnoxious, and _"entitled"_ passengers.
Many of whom are never happy, try to sneak open containers of alcohol (which they proceed to spill on our seats and inside of our car); try to fit more than 5 or more people into 4 seats instead of requesting a larger vehicle; they leave trash in the car (once they left an empty quart sized can of pineapple squished under the passenger seat); they want to play music very loud and shout inside (or out the windows) of the car.* And I haven't even begun to describe the drunk ones yet...*

In the end, it really does not seem to matter WHAT service we give some people. They will not even be civil, let alone tip you.
However once in awhile, you get a response like this that helps keep us going:

_★★★★★ 5 ratings
"Very nice and considerate and took care of us." _

We don't expect tips. We do expect a bit of civil and decent behavior from our passengers, just as they deserve it from us.
The tips are just small tokens of appreciation in a vast sea of those who simply do not appreciate the (beyond) _'basic service'_ they are getting at cut rates.

Uber on...


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Idontcare said:


> Exactly to whom do you want to tell to piss off? Because if it's me, I shouldn't help you.


The OP, the muttonhead that he is. If he rears his head again anyway.
Im saving up for you


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

tednash said:


> As for passengers being fired. I would calc that in as well, but the guys at uber probably leave the passengers in for two reasons
> 1 - a low rating is an effective shadow ban - ie. . in fourms when they dont like you, they make it so you can keep posting, but nobody sees your posts. This makes it so you dont go and create another account and re effectively neutralized without even knowing it - this being the fact that many drivers wont pick up a low rated passenger and ones that do. . well guess they needed the money.
> 2- I bet a passenger could find a way to sue uber for "banning" them and they found that the effective shadow ban of a low rating has the same net effect


1) Passengers are not 'fired', but their account can be deactivated. And rightly so in our current society. If you have ever watched the spectacle that takes place in fast food restaurants these days (that often make it to You Tube, etc), you will see how our society is beginning to prove that the customer is not always right. My wife works as a manager for one of the large Texas chains and has no problem telling a customer they are not welcome back after the customer has lashed out at her or her staff and made false claims. This is the way things are changing and much of it seems to center around a mentality that Uber is actually helping to propagate: The *"entitled" customer syndrome*... esp at the lower end of the service scale (_they pay bare minimum prices but expect luxury service_).

2) A low rating is NOT an effective shadow ban with Uber... (Note: With Lyft, this can be true because if I rate a passenger a 3 or lower (or vice versa they rate me), I will never see that passenger again (under that name)) However with Uber, I will still receive a ping and unless I look closely before accepting (such as when I am driving), I will not see their low score until afterwards. Even then, I may give them the benefit of the doubt or not worry about it at all. Disabling accounts makes more sense esp if coupled with better methods of preventing multiple accounts. Lyft is a bit more strict on their account creation than Uber. Which is a good thing if you want to reduce fake accounts. However I am sure nothing is perfect.

3) Suing Uber for 'banning' them... HOW? Riding with Uber is not a right. It is not public transportation, it is a private arrangement. They are well within their rights to restrict those that abuse their service. While we do live in a litigious society and no attempt to sue would surprise me... such an attempt should have little chance in Hell unless there are other circumstances beyond what we are discussing here.


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## Uber416 (Jun 19, 2015)

I'm a Passenger who is interested in becoming an Uber driver (which is why i joined the forum) and i've always tipped despite most drivers hesitation at first.

I will however admit that Uber really hard sell the "no need to tip" angle. I'm from the UK where tipping is quite a rare phenomenon as it is, typically it's only done in restaurants but i've had it hammered into me that tipping is more mandatory over here. Things are a lot cheaper over here than in London so i'm happy with that.

I would like to see the in-app tipping because getting change for tipping is a bit of a pain when things are a lot more cashless over here. I very seldom carry cash and have found myself unable to tip sometimes. I do explain to the driver and they're very forgiving, i guess because not many pax's tip. I've signed the petition and ask everyone else in my office to do the same.

Despite being a serial tipper who doesn't make a mess and doesn't bring hot food/drinks into the cab, i'm somehow a 4.3 passenger (I was 5* after the few instances I had problems with getting cash). Still trying to figure out why (any ideas why would be sweet as i like to think that i'm quite a pleasant passenger to have and don't like the idea i'm a burden to any of you guys).


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

Uber416 said:


> Despite being a serial tipper who doesn't make a mess and doesn't bring hot food/drinks into the cab, i'm somehow a 4.3 passenger (I was 5* after the few instances I had problems with getting cash). Still trying to figure out why (any ideas why would be sweet as i like to think that i'm quite a pleasant passenger to have and don't like the idea i'm a burden to any of you guys).


You sound like a pretty reasonable person, so I have no idea why your score would be that low.
However, I do know this, as drivers, we probably experience a lot more trips than the average rider, so one low score can have a heavier impact on you than a driver (depending on how much they drive of course).

The other problem is the individual doing the rating. Just as we have seen many instances of low scores for unknown reasons as drivers, I imagine the same is true for riders.
It is one reason I am particular in how I score riders, as I do not want to perpetuate the problem by being one to always rates them low, etc. If I score them low, it's because they deserved it and it is usually a rare case (though that depends on the day/night I am driving as to how frequent).

Unfortunately, who is to say that rider will not reciprocate with a low score when grading their future drivers, JUST BECAUSE... and the cycle begins between riders and drivers.
That seems to be where things are at now. Some who received low scores (whether riders or drivers) are retaliating by scoring everyone low...
Thus making the rating system further useless, esp since there is no community to help balance the ratings... just Uber or Lyft who keep that information guarded.
It is the reason many drivers give up worrying about their rating. You will go mad trying to make sense of it.


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## Uber416 (Jun 19, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> It is the reason many drivers give up worrying about their rating. You will go mad trying to make sense of it.


Absolutely, I mean, Passengers don't get access to their rating at all, I just ask the driver nicely if i can see it every so often if they are chatty. Been 5 star throughout my time in England and first few weeks over here. I guess thinking about it too much will drive me nuts. Then again i've racked up more than 50 trips so i'm happy that it's taken this long for someone to rate me low. Perhaps it was a driver who didn't like the english for whatever reason haha.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

Uber416 said:


> Absolutely, I mean, Passengers don't get access to their rating at all, I just ask the driver nicely if i can see it every so often if they are chatty. Been 5 star throughout my time in England and first few weeks over here. I guess thinking about it too much will drive me nuts. Then again I've racked up more than 50 trips so i'm happy that it's taken this long for someone to rate me low. Perhaps it was a driver who didn't like the english for whatever reason haha.


I know for drivers, a few low scores in a week, can mess up your weekly rating very quickly, while affecting our 30-day and 365-day rating less substantially.

Unfortunately the weekly rating can mean you do not qualify for a guarantee for that week, so it hurts us financially too.

Often, we get the feedback and a limited summary that might state something to the effect of:
*Out of 70 total trips, 50 were rated. Of those rated trips, you received 46 5-star ratings.*

Thereby the remaining 4 rated trips were less than 5-stars.

While those 4 trips account for less than 10% of our customers for that week, they can impact our weekly rating severely.
Four 1-star ratings, when applied to the other 46 5-star ratings, would be the equivalent of *4.68* weekly score, which is below the required 4.75 rating needed to qualify for a guarantee - thereby we lose money.
I lost out on $200 one week because of such a scenario.

When you drive several hundred trips each month, it softens the ratings effect overall (many drivers hover around 4.8), but still does not recoup your lost pay.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Your 


PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


Your the reason why this will crumble eventually. You tip a disgusting taxi driver who charges double. Yet, the uber driver giving away 35% of the gross is not worthy of the same consideration? After depreciating our mileage, we make less than 25% net profit. Uber is for cut rate cheap customers, Lyft is by far the better company. My average gross is 25% more with Lyft, I hope more customers use Lyft. Uber is 3 to 1 ride requests now in my city. I am losing money on every ride under $10 with uber. At least I get tipped on half of my Lyft rides that makes up for shorty loss leader rides. Give Lyft as much business as possible drivers to send a message to uber that you are honoring Lyft online tipping and higher rates to pay gas increases.


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

Backdash said:


> SHIT!
> Will "I suggest you piss off" work better?


A command is a type of sentence. There is nothing wrong with using a command. What matters is the content of the sentence.

Sentences can also be classified based on their purpose:

A _declarative sentence_ or declaration, the most common type, commonly makes a statement: "I have to go to work."
An _interrogative sentence_ or question is commonly used to request information-"Do I have to go to work?"-but sometimes not; see rhetorical question.
An _exclamatory sentence_ or exclamation is generally a more emphatic form of statement expressing emotion: "I have to go to work!"
An _imperative sentence_ or command tells someone to do something (and if done strongly may be considered both imperative and exclamatory): "Go to work." or "Go to work!"
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(linguistics)


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

tednash said:


> I wanted to give you "our" perspective





Idontcare said:


> You might want to replace ""our"" with "my". You don't need the quotation marks either.


So I see that you are ignoring my request for the correction.
You know what not all the riders are like you. I would say the most simply don't know the truth. But there are some starting to learn that there is no tip with uber. They feel like they were deceived by uber. I don't know if other drivers have experienced it but there are more people that tip now than before. These days I am getting tips from about 5 or 6 people every week. It's not that many but it's still more than what it used to be 0 or 1 per month. Most of our riders are nice people. So shame on you for using "our" and thinking that these riders also share the same perspective as you. You don't want to tip, that's fine but don't insult other riders by comparing to yourself.
You are such a low person not because you don't tip, but too scared to stand up for what you believe. I would have respected you if you have told us that you don't tip and you also don't cave into pressure.


tednash said:


> If you walk out of a sit down restaurant and leave no tip, they talk about you, snarl at you (probably complain on fourms) spit in your food next time etcc.. ie. .. the servers are trained to be entitled to tips as part of our civic duty. And with LYFT it is getting to be the same and ****ing annoying, so leaving it blank produces the same "entiltled" effect with Lyft drivers.. so no. . i cant just leave it blank.


I mean after reading above, what kind of scared little person are you? Tip someone because you want to. Don't tip because you are worried what they might think about you. Be a man and stand up for what you believe.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Idontcare said:


> A command is a type of sentence. There is nothing wrong with using a command. What matters is the content of the sentence.
> 
> Sentences can also be classified based on their purpose:
> 
> ...


Get outta here!


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## Idontcare (Mar 5, 2015)

Backdash said:


> Get outta here!


A good example for a command.


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## Uber416 (Jun 19, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> Four 1-star ratings, when applied to the other 46 5-star ratings, would be the equivalent of *4.68* weekly score, which is below the required 4.75 rating needed to qualify for a guarantee - thereby we lose money.
> I lost out on $200 one week because of such a scenario.


Ouch, See, it's things like this that still surprise me about the Uber model. This financial disqualification over the star rating system. Ultimately it's in their interests to keep you under that guarantee because it means more money for them. It's still costing the customer the same for the "dis-satisfaction" of the ride quality if it really is to protect the passenger.

The only instance i've ever voted under 5 is when a driver was making me really uncomfortable by asking me explicit questions about my sex life and the car was in a horrible state. He was a 3.4 star driver and how he was still driving i have no idea. If they garnished his pay for his digraceful rides, I want to know where my cut is. I had to endure it.


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## brent copeland (Jun 22, 2015)

As a brand new user to Uber, I just used it in Nashville for the first time, on a trip over the weekend. Here's my experience, and why I'm a little pissed at drivers and Uber.

First off, it was super simple to d/l the app, and besides word of mouth, that's all I knew of it. So we called an uber to go about 5 miles.

We got in the car, and the car was fine. The driver seemed nice. 

My first question was: So, do I tip you using the uber app when I get out of the car?

She responded with, you can't tip through the app, we only accept cash.

Now, I start to panic because I have no cash. It was the whole reason I used uber, assuming I could tip through the app since it was touted as not needing a wallet. So frantically I'm asking my friends if they have cash (all where the driver can hear). Only 1 girl had a $20 bill. i asked the driver -- can you split a $20. Oh no, I can't split a 20, we don't carry cash on us. (that should have been a red flag). We were all feeling really bad, and asking if the driver had paypal, so we could paypal a tip. Oh no.. I don't have paypal, she said.

She even says, I can drop you off here if you want. (which we took as, if you can't tip me, then you need to get out. I'm not sure how else to take that statement)

So my friend says.. how about this, I'll just give her a $20, and if you can pick us on the ride back, then that'll be the tip for both trips. I thought this was insane, since the trip was $4 itself each way.

The driver GLADLY said that would be great, and said just call her and don't use the app for the return pick up, until she arrived. So we gave her $20 and got out of the car at our destination.

Here is where we began to google tipping uber because of the whole thing, wanting to know how much and if there was an easier way to tip. First thing that came up, was a page from uber about how you were not supposed to tip, because you weren't supposed to need your wallet. 


I'm pissed. At you all whining about being mad at customers for not tipping. Your company you work for says.. NO TIPS. Just like Publix taking out your groceries. They Say NO TIPS. You can't be mad at the users for not tipping. Period. Be mad at your parent company. As customers, we don't know if it's a bad deal for you or not. If you're getting paid % on top. Your company says for us to not tip. So we don't. 

I'm pissed at Uber for not clarifying their statement and for not atleast offering a way to tip in the app. That's just ridiculous. On the flip side -- I'm pissed at the driver for not having a way to get tipped. For god sakes -- GET PAYPAL. If you want someone to be able to tip you, then get an EASY way for them to do so. They don't even need a paypal account, they can use their CC anytime.

In the end -- it IS your fault for working for uber if you don't like that policy.

I waited tables/bartended for over 10 years, and if I started working for a new bar that touted -- Tipping not required.. No cash needed.. etc.. And they didn't supplement the income some how, then i wouldn't work there. Period. Go work for a taxi company, get your own, or go work for lyft who does have tipping. You can't be mad otherwise.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

brent copeland , myself and many other drivers have stopped or drastically reduced our hours that we "partner" with Uber (We don't work for them according to Uber, we are independent contractors). So yes, we didn't like the rate cuts and cheap ass customers, so we stopped.

But keep in mind that due to several rate cuts and the fact most people don't tip, those competent drivers with nice newer cars arn't driving for them anymore. Now you get to ride in an 8 year old POS Prius with some driver who is going to let you sit there and struggle on how to break a $20 to tip her. That is how desperate drivers are these days to make a profit and who you are going to find more of with these rate cuts.

You get what you pay for.


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## McGillicutty (Jan 12, 2015)

brent copeland said:


> As a brand new user to Uber, I just used it in Nashville for the first time, on a trip over the weekend. Here's my experience, and why I'm a little pissed at drivers and Uber.
> 
> First off, it was super simple to d/l the app, and besides word of mouth, that's all I knew of it. So we called an uber to go about 5 miles.
> 
> ...


Where does Uber say "NO TIPS?"


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

McGillicutty said:


> Where does Uber say "NO TIPS?"


Just like the average idiot consumer, he saw "tipping not required" and equated it to "NO TIPS" in all caps. Other places tipping is not required include Taxis and restaurants, but I am sure he tips there regularly. Somebody tell me where tipping is required in America?


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

brent copeland said:


> why I'm a little pissed at drivers and Uber.
> 
> My first question was: So, do I tip you using the uber app when I get out of the car?
> She responded with, you can't tip through the app, we only accept cash.
> ...


Wow.. where do I begin...
So you are pissed at drivers twice as much as you are pissed at Uber...
Interesting.

1) How is the fact she does not carry cash on her a red flag? If you were driving a vehicle (and a female to boot) you probably do not want to make yourself an even bigger target by carrying cash. I am completely in favor of the cashless system.

2) As you and many drivers have already stated, the OPTION to tip should be inside the App. (Fault on Uber's part). Uber takes it a step further by giving the impression that either the tip is included in the fare or that tipping is not allowed. Neither of which are true. (Again, Uber's fault). You want to be pissed at us for not carrying extra cash or advertising a Paypal account for tipping, etc.. and even suggest we are 'whining' about the tipping issue. No, like you we feel that it should be included within the app and Uber needs to clarify that neither do they include a tip, nor do they ban tipping. That's it.

3) I will side with you on your stance that drivers should not be mad at passengers for not tipping. Tipping is and should only be a voluntary act, never mandatory. Getting angry at riders for not tipping is directing the frustration with Uber's app at the wrong party.

4) Your driver's offer to drop you off at a different location does not immediately mean she wanted you out because you could not tip. That is an assumption unless you have more supporting reasons based on her words or actions. By what you described, it is hard to discern her reason. For example, when dropping riders off at a bar/club that is on a busy strip, sometimes - either due to traffic, poor drop off locations closer to the venue, or even sensing that the riders are antsy to get out - offering to drop them off at early, though still very close by, is certainly an option and she DID ask IF that is what you wanted. She did not demand that you get out. We weren't there and you did not elaborate so it is hard to say if that was her reasoning.

5) You mentioned panicking when she said that you cannot tip inside the app. Again, that supports our effort to have Uber put the option within the app, just like Lyft does. Seamless and not adding extra steps if you chose NOT to tip - even making the entire tipping option less stressful or confrontational by placing it in your hands/phone and not direct contact with the driver. 
Since it sounds like you support that effort, why not sign the petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/751/931/071/

I am sorry you had a less than pleasant experience with Uber for your first time. Let us know how things go on your future trips and whether you change your mind on anything you said this time.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> *So if an Uber/Lyft driver* arrives quickly to pick you up and waits for you patiently.
> They have a clean, nice smelling car; they adjust the A/C and/or music to your tastes; and drive you to your location safely; this would be considered _"bare minimum"_ yes?
> 
> *Do you consider this worthy of a tip?*


Yes , this is bare minimum. No, it's not worthy of a tip.



KeJorn said:


> Depending on the circumstances they will likely also: Open the door for you, carry your luggage to the car and out, provide a power adapter or aux cable for your phone...
> Some even provide bottled water or gum for you (paid out of their own pocket, not Uber or Lyft's)
> *Is this what you consider outstanding service?*


Yes and worthy of a tip.



KeJorn said:


> Unfortunately, who is to say that rider will not reciprocate with a low score when grading their future drivers, JUST BECAUSE... and the cycle begins between riders and drivers.
> That seems to be where things are at now. Some who received low scores (whether riders or drivers) are retaliating by scoring everyone low...
> Thus making the rating system further useless, esp since there is no community to help balance the ratings..


This is exactly the point I raised earlier when I said rating passengers based on tips is childish and in the long term would hurt the credibility of ratings for both.



San Diego Steve said:


> Your
> 
> Your the reason why this will crumble eventually. You tip a disgusting taxi driver who charges double. Yet, the uber driver giving away 35% of the gross is not worthy of the same consideration? After depreciating our mileage, we make less than 25% net profit. Uber is for cut rate cheap customers, Lyft is by far the better company. My average gross is 25% more with Lyft, I hope more customers use Lyft. Uber is 3 to 1 ride requests now in my city. I am losing money on every ride under $10 with uber. At least I get tipped on half of my Lyft rides that makes up for shorty loss leader rides. Give Lyft as much business as possible drivers to send a message to uber that you are honoring Lyft online tipping and higher rates to pay gas increases.


Agreed. However you can't go around blaming passengers or rating them based on tips for the fact that Uber doesn't want to introduce an in-app tipping module. It's been repeatedly said no one is going to start carrying cash just for the occasion when they have to tip in an Uber ride. Also, more importantly many Uber drivers refuse tips so if a passenger has already has his/her tip turned down and 'educated' on how tips aren't necessary then the passenger is likely to not tip future drivers. Hence rating passengers without that context once again is short sighted.


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## Dhus (Jun 3, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


 Wow lot of reading , I dint even bother reading the 7 + pages , I will now go back and do so .

Your a tipper , So much so you tried to force a tip for a job well done but this crazy person refused .
You tip waitress's & waiter's .
You tip cab drivers.
You tip lyft drivers.
You don't tip uber drivers ?
You assume wrongly that all Uber and lyft drivers are part timers .
You don't carry cash but at least have a tip for the driver .
Try to have a tip from now on for your uber driver .
Poor ppl. cant afford to tip , but they still do , just not as much .
Ppl. that say they aren't tipping uber drivers because of policy is just a lame excuse .
Ive Never had to ask for a tip , I don't complain when I don't get a tip .
If you don't tip Uber drivers at all it says is your not happy with your experience in my opinion not policy .
There is to much Emphasis laid on tips .
You shouldn't have to ask , its a reward for a job well done .
Asking for a tip or never leaving a tip shows low character in my opinion .
Tell me anything but *You don't tip because Uber says so* .


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Yes , this is bare minimum. No, it's not worthy of a tip.
> I think the issue is that their is a hypocritical customer base here. Do you tip a doorman, skycap or bell hop with your credit card? Your a joke and a waste of time here. This site is for drivers to exchange ideas and figure out how to make a better living. We value and appreciate our jobs, but if we were treated as equals with other service industry members, we would not be debating cheap customers like you. Everyone has cash when they need it. You should make it a priority to tip your driver or pay double and take a taxi. You are not worthy of our time, we have many customers who would understand our issues working for
> 25% net profit. You should use your time elsewhere, drivers don't need your absurd opinions.
> 
> ...


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Dhus

So there is something wrong with the character of 95% of the people? Or maybe..


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Yes , this is bare minimum. No, it's not worthy of a tip.
> 
> Yes and worthy of a tip.
> 
> ...


I give all customers 5 stars so don't include me in paying back cheap customers who blame not having cash as a reason why they don't tip. Do you tip a sky cap, bell boy and door man with your credit card? Either your a cheap person or you stiff all service industry members. That is a cop out that you don't carry cash. Just be honest and admit that your cheap. It is not a priority for you to tip your driver who is making less than $5 net profit per trip on your average ride. Lyft customers choose to use that app. Because they don't appreciate not being able to tip online with uber. But they do tip cash with uber I have been told. What is your average ride distance? A good customer will tip if under $10, how about you? We don't have to give you water, candy and kiss your ass for a tip. That is demeaning, a good connection is all it takes for me to get a tip. Bottom line is that uber customers are cheap for the majority of rides. That is why I cancel guys like you and hear you whine when I don't take you on a $5 ride and then have you slam my door in my face. You scratch my car, bring dirt on your shoes, etc. I value your business but draw the line now on short rides because of the lack of a few bucks to pay for the gallon of gas I burn to pick you up and drop you off for an average $5 net profit ride. You are going to destroy this privelage we all enjoy if you don't treat us as equals to the taxi drivers that bend you over and get change for their tips. This site is for drivers by the way to learn how to be more intelligent and profitable working with uber. Why are you here? Must be bored or unemployed, I am here to exchange info and respect others including taxi drivers I have met here. We don't need negative undeserving customers here, we put up with you daily. I actually had up to $20 cash tips by uber customers, so some do have a heart. The older generation all tip, the younger generation is the issue, I am sure you are part of that selfious group. Take taxis, we don't need your business. My phone blows up, I can pick and choose if I wanted, but if someone sounds nice, I pick them up even for a shorty. I believe in good karma and so far so good. Leave some dollars in your wallet for your next ride and maybe you will get some of that karma without having your free water from your driver!


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## Dhus (Jun 3, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Dhus
> 
> So there is something wrong with the character of 95% of the people? Or maybe..


Doing what is right has to be mastered , do whats right and you will be accepted .


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

brent copeland said:


> As a brand new user to Uber, I just used it in Nashville for the first time, on a trip over the weekend. Here's my experience, and why I'm a little pissed at drivers and Uber.
> 
> First off, it was super simple to d/l the app, and besides word of mouth, that's all I knew of it. So we called an uber to go about 5 miles.
> 
> ...


First of all, Uber does not say tip is included. They want us to tell you that tips are not necessary. I never say that. I say, "Thank you very much!". The driver wasn't prepared to make change and that is her own fault. You don't need to tip her if she can't make change. I have a Square reader for you youngins that don't believe in carrying a few bucks in your wallet. I have received 2 tips in 3 months with it. I have had someone say they wish they can tip me but don't carry cash too many times to fall for this one now. If they don't whip out the credit card after I tell them I can accept tips with my smart phone and app, they will get a 2 or 3 star for lying to my face. That shit doesn't work with me anymore since I got the reader.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> I give all customers 5 stars so don't include me in paying back cheap customers who blame not having cash as a reason why they don't tip. Do you tip a sky cap, bell boy and door man with your credit card? Either your a cheap person or you stiff all service industry members. That is a cop out that you don't carry cash. Just be honest and admit that your cheap. It is not a priority for you to tip your driver who is making less than $5 net profit per trip on your average ride. Lyft customers choose to use that app. Because they don't appreciate not being able to tip online with uber. But they do tip cash with uber I have been told. What is your average ride distance? A good customer will tip if under $10, how about you? We don't have to give you water, candy and kiss your ass for a tip. That is demeaning, a good connection is all it takes for me to get a tip. Bottom line is that uber customers are cheap for the majority of rides. That is why I cancel guys like you and hear you whine when I don't take you on a $5 ride and then have you slam my door in my face. You scratch my car, bring dirt on your shoes, etc. I value your business but draw the line now on short rides because of the lack of a few bucks to pay for the gallon of gas I burn to pick you up and drop you off for an average $5 net profit ride. You are going to destroy this privelage we all enjoy if you don't treat us as equals to the taxi drivers that bend you over and get change for their tips. This site is for drivers by the way to learn how to be more intelligent and profitable working with uber. Why are you here? Must be bored or unemployed, I am here to exchange info and respect others including taxi drivers I have met here. We don't need negative undeserving customers here, we put up with you daily. I actually had up to $20 cash tips by uber customers, so some do have a heart. The older generation all tip, the younger generation is the issue, I am sure you are part of that selfious group. Take taxis, we don't need your business. My phone blows up, I can pick and choose if I wanted, but if someone sounds nice, I pick them up even for a shorty. I believe in good karma and so far so good. Leave some dollars in your wallet for your next ride and maybe you will get some of that karma without having your free water from your driver!


I like how you assumed I don't tip despite me clearly saying I do tip in Lyft and in Uber if they have a CC reader. This thread isn't about the few who do tip but about why majority don't. So saying I got $20 as tip that one time really isn't helping the case.

Sorry if this thread was too hostile for your taste because I'm sure the title is a give away so don't pretend you were forced to read this one. You can chose to ignore.

I have pretty much rated 5 to all drivers irrespective of water , candy and fluff. As long as I get from Point A to Point B is what I measure the rating on. I guess I should start doling out 3s for drivers during surge because I feel I'm being charged unfairly. This stupidity about factoring in financials in ratings can flow both ways (Not blaming you per say, but many seem to adopt that practice). In the end, the passenger didn't set the rate or minimum fare. It's almost like we're not supposed to avail the best deal in the market. If a lion has meat in front him, he will eat it.I guess you buy all clothes and electronics made in America because those made in China even though cheaper probably pay their workers 10x less. Also this isn't about disrespecting but about acceptance about the trade you're in. Short rides are prevalent which is why the concept of minimum fare exists. If any ride below $10 is not worth it then uhmm.. how about making it $10 minimum fare. Stop accusing passengers for playing the hand they are dealt. I'm sure there are plenty of bad apples in the lot and please by all means rate them 1 and complain,


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## Dhus (Jun 3, 2015)

I guess you wont tip me as I have no cc reader , oh well ! enjoy your ride .i.. ..i.


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## Dhus (Jun 3, 2015)

Don't lie to me , your just a cheap bastard . im done with this


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## InTheD (Jun 15, 2015)

7 screens of BS. For once I agree with Dhus (aka ******)


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

Dhus said:


> Don't lie to me , your just a cheap bastard . im done with this


You got me.

Although there is this, so maybe we could focus on the debate rather than baseless accusations.


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## InTheD (Jun 15, 2015)

Whoo hoo. $2 dollars. I hope you can afford the buffet for your family.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

InTheD said:


> Whoo hoo. $2 dollars. I hope you can afford the buffet for your family.


Nope, but maybe after 5 rides worth of tips saved I can 

Apparently people not tipping was the issue. Now I don't tip enough is the issue? Just can't win can we. Why not hang a board outside the car saying minimum tip = $X% . You already feel entitled, might as well voice it.


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## InTheD (Jun 15, 2015)

You really have no clue about the intentions and business model of Uber, do you?!


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

InTheD said:


> You really have no clue about the intentions and business model of Uber, do you?!


I am genuinely interested to know which parts you believe I am misinformed about.


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## InTheD (Jun 15, 2015)

I am genuinely interested in knowing how you got into this country.....lottery? asylum?


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

InTheD said:


> I am genuinely interested in knowing how you got into this country.....lottery? asylum?


I was genuinely curious but if you'd pause from trying to appear pompous you'd have known that.


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## InTheD (Jun 15, 2015)

Pffft. I'm not the one griping.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I like how you assumed I don't tip despite me clearly saying I do tip in Lyft and in Uber if they have a CC reader. This thread isn't about the few who do tip but about why majority don't. So saying I got $20 as tip that one time really isn't helping the case.
> 
> Sorry if this thread was too hostile for your taste because I'm sure the title is a give away so don't pretend you were forced to read this one. You can chose to ignore.
> 
> I have pretty much rated 5 to all drivers irrespective of water , candy and fluff. As long as I get from Point A to Point B is what I measure the rating on. I guess I should start doling out 3s for drivers during surge because I feel I'm being charged unfairly. This stupidity about factoring in financials in ratings can flow both ways (Not blaming you per say, but many seem to adopt that practice). In the end, the passenger didn't set the rate or minimum fare. It's almost like we're not supposed to avail the best deal in the market. If a lion has meat in front him, he will eat it.I guess you buy all clothes and electronics made in America because those made in China even though cheaper probably pay their workers 10x less. Also this isn't about disrespecting but about acceptance about the trade you're in. Short rides are prevalent which is why the concept of minimum fare exists. If any ride below $10 is not worth it then uhmm.. how about making it $10 minimum fare. Stop accusing passengers for playing the hand they are dealt. I'm sure there are plenty of bad apples in the lot and please by all means rate them 1 and complain,


Nothing wrong with saving money with uber price war rates. But, your wait time and cancelled requests from drivers will be the end result. We will take a Lyft ride over uber every time when it is busy and we get both pings at the same time. What city do you live in? We have more than we can handle, I don't feel bad anymore blowing off shorties that net me a gallon of gas. If I get a few bucks to pay for that gas, that is more satisfying than a $15 ride with a pompous attitude. What is your background, you seem articulate, yet don't get the point here. If you want this gig to survive, then feed the drivers who are serving your needs. Eventually, when the law suits are settled, you will be paying more in the long run. So that will be the tip that you refused to give when the rates could not support the drivers who are demanding change from uber. I am good on my end, work for all three at once. So, maybe I'll have the chance to cancel your request when your in my city. Try driving, it would be a real eye opener for you. I would never go another industry's web site to criticize workers. I would not have any integrity to voice my opinion against experts in their field. Would be interesting to hear from my brothers and sisters in the turf. We appreciate your business but not your cop out of not having cssh for tips. Saw your $2 tip, is that your best you can post, pretty embarrassing. I get those all day long on lyft, post a $5 minimum to get some respect . What does the Pixie stand for Scott?


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> Nothing wrong with saving money with uber price war rates. But, your wait time and cancelled requests from drivers will be the end result. We will take a Lyft ride over uber every time when it is busy and we get both pings at the same time. What city do you live in? We have more than we can handle, I don't feel bad anymore blowing off shorties that net me a gallon of gas. If I get a few bucks to pay for that gas, that is more satisfying than a $15 ride with a pompous attitude. What is your background, you seem articulate, yet don't get the point here. If you want this gig to survive, then feed the drivers who are serving your needs. Eventually, when the law suits are settled, you will be paying more in the long run. So that will be the tip that you refused to give when the rates could not support the drivers who are demanding change from uber. I am good on my end, work for all three at once. So, maybe I'll have the chance to cancel your request when your in my city. Try driving, it would be a real eye opener for you. I would never go another industry's web site to criticize workers. I would not have any integrity to voice my opinion against experts in their field. Would be interesting to hear from my brothers and sisters in the turf. We appreciate your business but not your cop out of not having cssh for tips. Saw your $2 tip, is that your best you can post, pretty embarrassing. I get those all day long on lyft, post a $5 minimum to get some respect . What does the Pixie stand for Scott?


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## McGillicutty (Jan 12, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Just like the average idiot consumer, he saw "tipping not required" and equated it to "NO TIPS" in all caps. Other places tipping is not required include Taxis and restaurants, but I am sure he tips there regularly. Somebody tell me where tipping is required in America?


I know, but I wanted the bartender to go look for it and take a selfie of the 'tarded look on his face when he realizes he doesn't know WTF he's talking about.


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## PixieScott (May 12, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> If you want this gig to survive, then feed the drivers who are serving your needs. Eventually, when the law suits are settled, you will be paying more in the long run. So that will be the tip that you refused to give when the rates could not support the drivers who are demanding change from uber.





San Diego Steve said:


> If you want this gig to survive, then feed the drivers who are serving your needs. Eventually, when the law suits are settled, you will be paying more in the long run. So that will be the tip that you refused to give when the rates could not support the drivers who are demanding change from uber. So, maybe I'll have the chance to cancel your request when your in my city. Try driving, it would be a real eye opener for you. I would never go another industry's web site to criticize workers. I would not have any integrity to voice my opinion against experts in their field. Would be interesting to hear from my brothers and sisters in the turf. We appreciate your business but not your cop out of not having cssh for tips. Saw your $2 tip, is that your best you can post, pretty embarrassing. I get those all day long on lyft, post a $5 minimum to get some respect . What does the Pixie stand for Scott?


Agreed. However it is not the prerogative of the passenger to 'figure this out'. I get what you're saying and truth is people were gladly paying for and using Uber when the rates were higher as well. Clearly it means we're willing to pay more provided it meets the convenience we're using Uber for. I wish to clarify I obviously speak for myself and some passengers whom I have interacted with and not all. Some other passengers have pitched in with their views on this thread and it all has a common theme. You're picking the wrong battles! There will definitely be some who tip big, some who tip, some who lie and then don't tip. Taking the example of the few who tip is like ignoring the reason behind why 95% don't. Out of those 95% a huge chunk are cheap and won't tip no matter how you slice the deal. Some of us tip within our modicum of understanding and budget. Others are way more generous. Anyways, my point being the 'cheap' folk gladly used Uber when the rates were higher. SO what does that tell you? We're ok with paying more! The fact that I had a fare estimate and it paid for through the app is a win. I didn't have to worry about multiple things including tip. I did start tipping at Uber only after I frequented the forum. Granted my tip isn't huge by any means and by saving a dollar or two I'm not going to find a surplus of money. I could say the same for the driver too that losing a dollar or two isn't going to make or break his earnings.

Neither passengers nor drivers would want this 'gig'to be up. Any decision by Uber is to serve their self-interest neither passengers nor drivers. Rates will always remain low unless there aren't enough drivers to supplement demand because the smart ones among you realize that it's a loss making blackhole. However that doesn't look like its happening yet since so now you want passengers to foot the price for the decisions of Uber? Once again, I don't mind paying more provided its effortlessly calculated into my fare/rate. For drivers to expect passengers to subsidize their costs because Uber cut their rates makes no sense. I want the drivers to get as fair a deal in this because a happier drive means less grumpy drive/ride. It just seems many of you have redirected their frustation with Uber at us. What happens when let's suppose Uber slashes its rates further? Are the passengers supposed to increase their tip to make up the difference? At this point tips are less to show appreciation and more for allowing the driver to make a profit. You have to realize that ratings have replaced tips in the mindset of the Uber user. The hope of tips elsewhere and the fear of bad ratings here instead is incentive to do a decent job. There is no practical reason for tip in Uber apart from giving more money to the Uber driver which can be accomplished by a higher fare.

Which brings me to the point, if the rates don't make sense shouldn't there be drivers dropping out in hordes and Uber scrambling to get them back? I don't see that happening though. If the rates are that horrible/downright loss worthy then you shouldn't be Ubering but instead if you still stick by the rates,drive Uber and then expect passengers to bail you out using tips and then rate them 3-4 when they don't tip doesn't remotely make sense to me. I have huge respect for you guys, driving is a thankless job and I do my best to ease your burden by being on time, not carrying food/drinks/sand/dirt, not changing destination and so. There are plenty here who are far more articulate,experienced and knowledgeable than me and I enjoy reading their insights on the forum. I don't begrudge anyone and I don't intend to criticize you. This thread is merely defense against the passenger-didn't-tip threads and not an offensive against it. Once again, If I came across as condescending then I'm sorry and neither do I have the right to toe into your know-how. However I can speak from my perspective and that is what I'm sharing. If you're going to play the game of eventually convincing the world to tip in Uber, you'll be waiting a while. Instead the same efforts if directed to lobbying for fairer rates or better guarantees could be far more worth your time and stress.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Agreed. However it is not the prerogative of the passenger to 'figure this out'. I get what you're saying and truth is people were gladly paying for and using Uber when the rates were higher as well. Clearly it means we're willing to pay more provided it meets the convenience we're using Uber for. I wish to clarify I obviously speak for myself and some passengers whom I have interacted with and not all. Some other passengers have pitched in with their views on this thread and it all has a common theme. You're picking the wrong battles! There will definitely be some who tip big, some who tip, some who lie and then don't tip. Taking the example of the few who tip is like ignoring the reason behind why 95% don't. Out of those 95% a huge chunk are cheap and won't tip no matter how you slice the deal. Some of us tip within our modicum of understanding and budget. Others are way more generous. Anyways, my point being the 'cheap' folk gladly used Uber when the rates were higher. SO what does that tell you? We're ok with paying more! The fact that I had a fare estimate and it paid for through the app is a win. I didn't have to worry about multiple things including tip. I did start tipping at Uber only after I frequented the forum. Granted my tip isn't huge by any means and by saving a dollar or two I'm not going to find a surplus of money. I could say the same for the driver too that losing a dollar or two isn't going to make or break his earnings.
> 
> Neither passengers nor drivers would want this 'gig'to be up. Any decision by Uber is to serve their self-interest neither passengers nor drivers. Rates will always remain low unless there aren't enough drivers to supplement demand because the smart ones among you realize that it's a loss making blackhole. However that doesn't look like its happening yet since so now you want passengers to foot the price for the decisions of Uber? Once again, I don't mind paying more provided its effortlessly calculated into my fare/rate. For drivers to expect passengers to subsidize their costs because Uber cut their rates makes no sense. I want the drivers to get as fair a deal in this because a happier drive means less grumpy drive/ride. It just seems many of you have redirected their frustation with Uber at us. What happens when let's suppose Uber slashes its rates further? Are the passengers supposed to increase their tip to make up the difference? At this point tips are less to show appreciation and more for allowing the driver to make a profit. You have to realize that ratings have replaced tips in the mindset of the Uber user. The hope of tips elsewhere and the fear of bad ratings here instead is incentive to do a decent job. There is no practical reason for tip in Uber apart from giving more money to the Uber driver which can be accomplished by a higher fare.
> 
> Which brings me to the point, if the rates don't make sense shouldn't there be drivers dropping out in hordes and Uber scrambling to get them back? I don't see that happening though. If the rates are that horrible/downright loss worthy then you shouldn't be Ubering but instead if you still stick by the rates,drive Uber and then expect passengers to bail you out using tips and then rate them 3-4 when they don't tip doesn't remotely make sense to me. I have huge respect for you guys, driving is a thankless job and I do my best to ease your burden by being on time, not carrying food/drinks/sand/dirt, not changing destination and so. There are plenty here who are far more articulate,experienced and knowledgeable than me and I enjoy reading their insights on the forum. I don't begrudge anyone and I don't intend to criticize you. This thread is merely defense against the passenger-didn't-tip threads and not an offensive against it. Once again, If I came across as condescending then I'm sorry and neither do I have the right to toe into your know-how. However I can speak from my perspective and that is what I'm sharing. If you're going to play the game of eventually convincing the world to tip in Uber, you'll be waiting a while. Instead the same efforts if directed to lobbying for fairer rates or better guarantees could be far more worth your time and stress.


Good to hear your changing your ways Scott and pulling a few bucks out of your pocket. Not trying to blame the passenger for the rates, just trying to be treated as an equal to other taxi drivers who get tipped for generations. The public needs to subsidize the low rates if they want this to continue with the efficiency we have at this time. If not, then they will have to wait longer and drive with newbies who replace a good driver who gives up. We are all in this together to make it continue and prosper. I don't need to sell this anymore, last message on this topic. Moving on to more topics, thanks for being civilized and cordial.
Steve


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

PixieScott said:


> KeJorn said: ↑
> *So if an Uber/Lyft driver* arrives quickly to pick you up and waits for you patiently.
> They have a clean, nice smelling car; they adjust the A/C and/or music to your tastes; and drive you to your location safely; this would be considered _"bare minimum"_ yes?
> *Do you consider this worthy of a tip?*
> ...


Do you tip pizza delivery people? Valets?
If so, did they do anything extra, but their basic job effectively?
Yet you only tip if a driver does extra services, beyond the basics.
Interesting, though I still agree it is YOUR choice.

While I agree that giving riders low scores because they did not tip, seems inappropriate to me and I choose not to do it, other drivers see it differently.
However, I do not think the _"low rating domino effect"_ started with the drivers. If you have never driven for Uber or Lyft, you might not understand why I say that.
It only takes about 10% of our passengers to screw up our rating. So it's not the majority of the riders. But 10-20% sounds about right when it comes to some of the jerks we deal with every single day.

Isn't that the typical human scenario though? 20% screw it up for the other 80%. I'm sure you can apply that to drivers and riders alike.

Best of luck.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


As a home satellite TV service tech, we were allowed to recieve tips up to $50. Auto mechanic? I rarely see the actual tech that worked on my car, just the service manager and then pay at the counter. I do drive UberX as my primary income and am surprised at the number of pax that assume 5* somehow increases my share of the fare. BTW, it is not a 80/20 split. It is 80/20 after the first $. Meaning on a $6.00 (currently minimum fare here), I get $4.00. Thus 65% of my trips are actually a 67/33 split. Toes on the curb mean I can do 4-5 minimums an hour or $16-20 (of coarse more with surge). Waiting on pax puts me at 2-3 or $8-12/hr. Pax assume I am well compensated and I am when pax are mature and thoughtful. BTW, frugal and generosity can coexist.


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## EcoSLC (Sep 24, 2015)

My "real" job is delivering pizza. I actually make more per hour doing that thanks to tips, but I drive an electric car and the nearest high-voltage charging station is miles away from the store. I may transfer to the downtown store over the winter, though. College kids probably tip better than... a certain race in the poverty section of the city.

I put way more effort into Uber than I do into throwing a pizza in a bag and walking up to some guy's front door. The pizza also doesn't ask for water and gum, tear up my upholstery, ask me "How do you like driving for Uber?", or complain that I drove a different route than it wanted. Sometimes I still get a misplaced 'map pin' (so to speak) or someone who takes 5 minutes to answer their door, but they usually tip *better* as an apology.

If you tip your pizza guy, you should definitely be tipping your rideshare driver. smh


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## Baby Cakes (Sep 6, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I came across this forum recently and it took me by surprise just how much of a deal tips actually were here. I feel I had been living under a rock all this time. Before I begin, I'd share my background to add context to my ramblings below. I have used Uber and Lyft infrequently ( when in new city,car in garage etc. ) for over a year. I am a student and hence the meter would tend towards "being frugal" for me. Having said that I do always tip where I am expected to. In fact I once tried tipping the cable guy before he refused and led to an awkward standoff. ( On a related note, do car mechanics expect tips? )
> 
> 1. I feel your anger against not being tipped is misdirected towards passengers. Surely you are aware how Uber is marketed to the consumer. At every opportunity Uber conveys that tipping is not necessary or even expected. It says on the app FAQ and on the website for the benefits of ordering an uber ride vs other rides/taxis. Here is the text on phone - "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> ...


Very well said. Anyone who considers your astute analysis rude is just too involved to see clearly.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

There's no need to tip (Uber-owned driverless cars). Dig deeper into the app; there is also this statement. No part of the compensation to 3rd party provider is tip or gratuity. Uber tells pax, no need to tip; Uber tells driver, no such thing as tip because that option is not in the app. How do you finish this sentence? There's no need to tip (because) ... Tip is included is a lie. It is voluntary is the best answer.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Baby Cakes said:


> Very well said. Anyone who considers your astute analysis rude is just too involved to see clearly.


I presume your a rider of Uber. Why does a rider even go on here when you don't drive? Probably because your bored with your life. We are on here to help each other and you add no value with your comments. You cannot analyze our opinions because you don't drive. This moron was blown out of here months ago, his post is from June. He has no value to us, just as mentioned, another cheap penny pincher who makes excuses to not tip an uber driver. If you appreciate saving 60% over the same taxi driver that has been tipped for generations, then bring some cash on your next ride. It is clearly stated that we do accept tips, so don't play ignorant and stupid like pixie idiot who made his astute cheap comments. You really should take a taxi, we don't need your rude business. I respect riders who don't tip, as long as they are pleasant and appreciate our effort. I don't respect riders voicing their opinions about our posts, none of your business. I don't come to others work and criticize their issues, that would be ignorant of me like yourself. Riders who tip are much appreciated, and realize uber has not done the right approach on this matter. Go back to your boring life and leave us alone. One day, this will all end or the rates will go up and you will miss the days of no tipping at $1 per mile and 18 cents a minute for your X ride. Oh, and if your willing to tip on lyft, then makes no sense to me that you don't on uber with some cash. Have you heard of ATM machines? Stupid lame cop out that riders dont carry cash. So sick of low life's making comments on an occupation that they don't do. Next time you go to a bar, look at all the cash given for a drink and bartenders keeping the change. Get real, your not fooling us here.


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## Baby Cakes (Sep 6, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> I presume your a rider of Uber. Why does a rider even go on here when you don't drive? Probably because your bored with your life. We are on here to help each other and you add no value with your comments. You cannot analyze our opinions because you don't drive. This moron was blown out of here months ago, his post is from June. He has no value to us, just as mentioned, another cheap penny pincher who makes excuses to not tip an uber driver. If you appreciate saving 60% over the same taxi driver that has been tipped for generations, then bring some cash on your next ride. It is clearly stated that we do accept tips, so don't play ignorant and stupid like pixie idiot who made his astute cheap comments. You really should take a taxi, we don't need your rude business. I respect riders who don't tip, as long as they are pleasant and appreciate our effort. I don't respect riders voicing their opinions about our posts, none of your business. I don't come to others work and criticize their issues, that would be ignorant of me like yourself. Riders who tip are much appreciated, and realize uber has not done the right approach on this matter. Go back to your boring life and leave us alone. One day, this will all end or the rates will go up and you will miss the days of no tipping at $1 per mile and 18 cents a minute for your X ride. Oh, and if your willing to tip on lyft, then makes no sense to me that you don't on uber with some cash. Have you heard of ATM machines? Stupid lame cop out that riders dont carry cash. So sick of low life's making comments on an occupation that they don't do. Next time you go to a bar, look at all the cash given for a drink and bartenders keeping the change. Get real, your not fooling us here.


I have driven for Uber since march and Lyft since Aug '14. I am have used Uber and Lyft on three occasions to get my car from the mechanic and tipped $5, $5 and $14. all these trips were between $6-$9.


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## Baby Cakes (Sep 6, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> I presume your a rider of Uber. Why does a rider even go on here when you don't drive? Probably because your bored with your life. We are on here to help each other and you add no value with your comments. You cannot analyze our opinions because you don't drive. This moron was blown out of here months ago, his post is from June. He has no value to us, just as mentioned, another cheap penny pincher who makes excuses to not tip an uber driver. If you appreciate saving 60% over the same taxi driver that has been tipped for generations, then bring some cash on your next ride. It is clearly stated that we do accept tips, so don't play ignorant and stupid like pixie idiot who made his astute cheap comments. You really should take a taxi, we don't need your rude business. I respect riders who don't tip, as long as they are pleasant and appreciate our effort. I don't respect riders voicing their opinions about our posts, none of your business. I don't come to others work and criticize their issues, that would be ignorant of me like yourself. Riders who tip are much appreciated, and realize uber has not done the right approach on this matter. Go back to your boring life and leave us alone. One day, this will all end or the rates will go up and you will miss the days of no tipping at $1 per mile and 18 cents a minute for your X ride. Oh, and if your willing to tip on lyft, then makes no sense to me that you don't on uber with some cash. Have you heard of ATM machines? Stupid lame cop out that riders dont carry cash. So sick of low life's making comments on an occupation that they don't do. Next time you go to a bar, look at all the cash given for a drink and bartenders keeping the change. Get real, your not fooling us here.


Before I drove for Lyft/Uber I delivered pizza for 2 years and the tips were incredibly good. I'm dont want to too deeply rehash the original post but I suppose I will. Ask your next PAX about their perception of tipping. Odds are they think their not suppose to tip or they believe tips are not required. Uber is actively discouraging tips. As a driver and a former pizza delivery guy I LOVE tips. I made $100-150 on saturdays for two years I am by no means opposed to tips. I'm just looking at the reality. Our PAX go through Uber to get to us drivers, Uber poisons their perception by saying, 'cashless', no tip required/expected', even 'tip-included' and they do this to get more and more PAX and set themselves apart. Playing devil's advocate they don't have to pay transaction fees, with the rating systems PAX actually think a 5 star rating is equal to a tip. Lyft for example has sent out emails to us drivers basically *****ing about the transaction fees they go out of pocket to allow PAX to tip for Lyft.


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## Uber Monkey (Oct 10, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> Thank you for highlighting that. I had already stated that I would tip henceforth ( I anyways did tip at Lyft because they allow so! ).
> 
> Practically the entire thread has been devoted to the question you raised. TL;DRing it here in a couple of lines wouldn't be a sufficient answer. I will however, re-list some of them : Uber's discouragement of tipping, Driver perception and cheaper clientele.
> 
> ...


PixieScott you seem to be reasonably intelligent. You have mentioned a number of times that drivers didn't complain about rate cuts, wages, price or tipping.
What do you think the response would be if your Uber driver vented their frustrations to every PAX?
We would receive low ratings and eventually be deactivated from the Uber app.

You took the time to analyze Uber's marketing approach, but failed to consider that drivers are not in a position to complain to the PAX without negative reprocussions.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Uber Monkey said:


> PixieScott you seem to be reasonably intelligent. You have mentioned a number of times that drivers didn't complain about rate cuts, wages, price or tipping.
> What do you think the response would be if your Uber driver vented their frustrations to every PAX?
> We would receive low ratings and eventually be deactivated from the Uber app.
> 
> You took the time to analyze Uber's marketing approach, but failed to consider that drivers are not in a position to complain to the PAX without negative reprocussions.


Exactly, Drivers are going to lie through their teeth and tell the PAX how peachy it is driving for Uber every time.


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## Uber Monkey (Oct 10, 2015)

Let me point out a few problems with your arguments.

You see a lot of PAX did not tip postings here because this is a driver forum where drivers can vent and seek advice from other drivers.
We do blame Uber for the situation. Our frustration comes from the attitudes of the majority of PAX. A lot of PAX will be disrespectful and throw it in your face that they aren't going to tip.
Most of us started driving when rates were higher (but still cheaper than a taxi). Uber did not consult their driver partners when they lowered rates. The only option for drivers is to accept the changes or quit. They notified us that it was happening via email the day before and used a 5 step justification of how we would make more money with more rides. Uber then raised the SRF to maintain they profits. The PAX pays the same and the drivers get paid less.
Tipping while generally expected in service industries is never required in the US unless stated so up front. Uber markets our services with implications that riders shouldn't tip the drivers.

The comparison of tip expectations for Uber and fast food restaurants is ridiculous. If you compare fast food restaurants and nicer sit down restaurants, there significant differences in the service you receive. If you compare Uber and taxi services the main differences are generally UberX has faster pick ups, nicer cars, and lower fares; but but the expectation is to tip a taxi ride.
 You would not ever ask anyone what other sources of income they have before determining whether or not to tip and how much. Why is that a consideration or any of your business with your Uber driver?
Uber is a cheaper alternative to taxis, just how can you fool yourself into believing that driving for Uber is a lucrative income for drivers.
I agree with you that the problems we are discussing would be better highlighted if drivers quit driving, but for a lot of us, the minimal income provided is better than nothing. I evaluate the situation regularly to decide if I am making enough to making driving ride share is worth it. So far it is, but that could change with another rate cut, increased gas prices, or fewer rides each week.
I do not expect riders to make up the difference in income with tips. I just want to be treated fairly.
Most of the issues are with Uber and its policies not riders, but the willful ignorance and/or attitude of most riders is very frustrating.

I appreciate that you took the time to consider the driver perspective on tipping and admittedly the postings in this driver's forum can be negative and somewhat hostile.


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## Uber Monkey (Oct 10, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Exactly, Drivers are going to lie through their teeth and tell the PAX how peachy it is driving for Uber every time.


I try to honest with PAX who ask questions about how it is driving for Uber. I don't get on a soap box or go on a rant, but most of the time it ends with an awkward silence.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Exactly, Drivers are going to lie through their teeth and tell the PAX how peachy it is driving for Uber every time.


This guy is a waste of time, he has been blasted on the site with no logical recourse. He can't go to the atm to pull some cash out to have the ability to tip with uber, a cop out. He posted a $2 tip on a Lyft ride, real impressive! A boring loser with nothing better to do than criticize the uber no tip option. Don't use uber and tip with Lyft if your allergic to cash. Stupid posts, they should deactivate his profile on the basis of antagonizing the drivers that are slaving away to make their $15 net per hour after gas expense and commission.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

MKEUber said:


> Exactly, Drivers are going to lie through their teeth and tell the PAX how peachy it is driving for Uber every time.


Actually, I am usually very honest about how much I earn when passengers engage in that conversation with me. For the non-surge minimum fare trips, I make sure they know that my cut is a measly $2.00 (DFW, lol). They learn that, on average, I earn closer to $14-16/hour after expenses, compared to the $30-40/hour Uber promotes.

Basically, and I've said this exact thing to several passengers, "it's not like I go home and roll around naked in piles of money".


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## Kruhn (Sep 24, 2015)

PixieScott said:


> I'm glad you see reason. A point you didn't mention which is equally influential is that *many* uber drivers refuse or dissuade tips. This makes the ones who accept tips appear greedy and not necessarily deserving.


Yes, those are the idiots like me, a long time ago, who believed the corporate broo ha ha and had drunk the Kool-Aid until I finally took my trip on the Road to Damascus and saw the light!

What a blooming idiot was I for actively refusing tips until late last year during the second round of DC rate cuts.


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## Kruhn (Sep 24, 2015)

After reading the nine pages of arguments on this topic, I've seen the best and the worst of human nature on *both sides *of the debate.

PixieScott raised a valid point on his OP about the perception Uber had created about tipping. I read the passenger FAQ on tipping and although it doesn't expressly say that tipping is not required, it implies that is not needed. In fact in the FAQ's of other services, like Eats they are even more explicit by stating that tipping isn't required, instead telling the customer to give the service 5* instead.

The United States is probably the only major industrialized country that uses tipping as a major part of an employee's compensation. Tipping, however is an inefficient way to price labor (that's what wages are).

Before you grab your cybernetic torches and pitchforks, let me give you a couple of points to consider. First the very act of tipping is subjective. The decision of whether or not to tip and by how much, can be affected by variables that have nothing to do with the quality of service provided. Second, tipping is an additional expense that is not reflected in the price of the service provided. The best way to avoid the need for tipping is for the price of the service to reflect the actual costs to the customer. Uber has taken to heart the inefficient part of the statement regarding tipping, but its slash and burn pricing policies doesn't help drivers get a fair compensation for their work.

I've seen some selfish, arrogant, statements in this debate, especially demands that if Uber drivers don't like it, leave, as it is not supposed to be a permanent job. Well, I have news fur you, as of 2014 the 1099 economy has become 1 in 3 of every US job and by the end of the decade it is estimated to be 1 in 2. So those sneering and looking under their noses at that Uber driver, you might be joining him soon.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Kruhn said:


> After reading the nine pages of arguments on this topic, I've seen the best and the worst of human nature on *both sides *of the debate.
> 
> PixieScott raised a valid point on his OP about the perception Uber had created about tipping. I read the passenger FAQ on tipping and although it doesn't expressly say that tipping is not required, it implies that is not needed. In fact in the FAQ's of other services, like Eats they are even more explicit by stating that tipping isn't required, instead telling the customer to give the service 5* instead.
> 
> ...


You should let us know who you are, I assume a loyal rider. We thank you for your rides but your post is a waste of our time. The bottom line is that I get tipped on 50% of my Lyft rides. Around 5% of my uber rides. Same people use both services, so uber has created the issue. If you want to support your uber driver, flip him a 5 or a few bucks to pay for his gas it took to give you that 5 star service. You will benefit in the long run when he accepts your request instead of cancelling for a Lyft request. When it's busy and both apps hit at same time. I'm cancelling your uber request for a Lyft request which pays me 10% more on tips. You have no excuse not to give your driver a tip, just a convenient cop out from a victim of the propaganda.


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## Kruhn (Sep 24, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> You should let us know who you are, I assume a loyal rider. We thank you for your rides but your post is a waste of our time. The bottom line is that I get tipped on 50% of my Lyft rides. Around 5% of my uber rides. Same people use both services, so uber has created the issue. If you want to support your uber driver, flip him a 5 or a few bucks to pay for his gas it took to give you that 5 star service. You will benefit in the long run when he accepts your request instead of cancelling for a Lyft request. When it's busy and both apps hit at same time. I'm cancelling your uber request for a Lyft request which pays me 10% more on tips. You have no excuse not to give your driver a tip, just a convenient cop out from a victim of the propaganda.


You assumed incorrectly. I'm a driver who has worked full time at this for 1 1/2 years and who has been at the receiving end of the Uber slash and burn tactics mentioned above. My argument was actually in defense of tipping despite the fact of the model's inefficiency as a wage-setting mechanism.

The Uber party line about tipping is so strong thats that it came to play at the very end of my last run today. After finishing a quick Uber run within downtown Annapolis, MD, the passenger who requested me gets out, but her father tries giving me a couple of dollars as a tip. The passenger pushes her father's hand away from me and gives the usual Uber line. Dad insists, to which the passenger ends up asking me what the policy is implying that I should have recited the party line of "no need to tip your driver and have a nice day, A-hyuck!" You can imagine that the back and forth I saw in this debate was replaying on the back of my mind as she asked me the question.

Instead, I used my standard"tipping is *ENCOURAGED *although not necessarily *ENFORCED*" response. The passenger left probably upset at my response stating that it's on top of what I already get as she closed the door. I did get my $2.00 for the $8.84 trip.

As you can see, the Kool-Aid is still strong despite our rearguard efforts to fight it, which was part of the thesis of the OPs argument, San Diego Steve. I also pointed out the policy on two Uber services, one that is sightly discourages tipping (Uber X) and one that actively discourages it (UberEats). I can gladly provide you with the statements for the record of this debate.

The tipping issue is a quintessentially American phenomenon that has been built into the wage mechanism because tipped labor gets paid less than the minimum wage on the assumption that you'll make the difference in tips. If you go to a restaurant in Paris, you leave your coins (except the €1, €2, and €5, which do come as coins) as a tip. The price of the meal though, is 25-30% higher than a comparable one in, say, San Diego .

I am guessing, you read the first half of my macroeconomic reasoning on why tips are inefficient as a wage mechanism, without getting down to the second part of my argument that the way Uber's so-called "no tipping" policy would cause no problems would be for the prices of the rides to reflect the actual costs we drivers incur in picking you up and taking you to your destination plus a reasonable profit.

You do make a point though, San Diego Steve in the meantime, tip your Uber driver!


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

I missed your earlier post when you called yourself an idiot. Interesting point about the customer asking you about tip policy. I am very direct with the topic, tell them point blank that we accept cash tips, no electronic tip link built into the app like Lyft provides for customer. That this is a source of contention for the drivers. No tip is included in the fare. The older customers tip more often than the young ones. They have more pride and integrity, don't use it as a cop out of not having cash. Take it easy!


Kruhn said:


> You assumed incorrectly. I'm a driver who has worked full time at this for 1 1/2 years and who has been at the receiving end of the Uber slash and burn tactics mentioned above. My argument was actually in defense of tipping despite the fact of the model's inefficiency as a wage-setting mechanism.
> 
> The Uber party line about tipping is so strong thats that it came to play at the very end of my last run today. After finishing a quick Uber run within downtown Annapolis, MD, the passenger who requested me gets out, but her father tries giving me a couple of dollars as a tip. The passenger pushes her father's hand away from me and gives the usual Uber line. Dad insists, to which the passenger ends up asking me what the policy is implying that I should have recited the party line of "no need to tip your driver and have a nice day, A-hyuck!" You can imagine that the back and forth I saw in this debate was replaying on the back of my mind as she asked me the question.
> 
> ...


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## Kruhn (Sep 24, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> I missed your earlier post when you called yourself an idiot. Interesting point about the customer asking you about tip policy. I am very direct with the topic, tell them point blank that we accept cash tips, no electronic tip link built into the app like Lyft provides for customer. That this is a source of contention for the drivers. No tip is included in the fare. The older customers tip more often than the young ones. They have more pride and integrity, don't use it as a cop out of not having cash. Take it easy!


Yeah, I was a fool, but the rates were, of course, more reasonable for us.

The passenger set up the question as "Uber includes the tip in its price, right? So I went for my diplomatic response.. Perhaps, I should be direct.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Kruhn said:


> Yeah, I was a fool, but the rates were, of course, more reasonable for us.
> 
> The passenger set up the question as "Uber includes the tip in its price, right? So I went for my diplomatic response.. Perhaps, I should be direct.


I speak the ugly truth, don't pull any punches. Even mention it is part of a law suit of misinforming public that tip is included in the fare before uber retracted that statement recently.


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## CNJtrepreneur (Mar 25, 2015)

When Uber rates were more or less OK, and they didn't oversaturate the market, the lack of tips never bothered me.

Now that the rates have been cut THREE FRICKIN TIMES - DESPITE THE COMPANY RAKING IN BILLIONS WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K - it's screwing with my bottom line.

I used to drive every night, because it was fun and profitable. Now I only drive Frday and Saturday nights, and I'll be damned if I accept a pick-up from 15 minutes away.

Thing is, Uber is my side income, like 50% of Uber drivers. I can sit on my ass, write web content or design logos, and make more money than this. I do it because of the social interaction factor, and to take a break from staring into a screen all day.

You know who loses out when Uber cuts rates and disincentivizes drivers like me from driving during the week? The customers. The ones paying for surge rates because there used to be 8-12 UberX cars in the area on any given night, and now there are 4-5. The ones in out-of-the-way areas where I won't go now. The people getting off the train at the major junction that serves both the state transit and Amtrak, and quickly overwhelms the local taxi services every time the train from the major city comes in.

Uber is taking an excellent idea, and turning it into complete shit through stupid greed. There's smart greed, which creates better service and more options, and then there's stupid greed, which kills businesses.


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## CNJtrepreneur (Mar 25, 2015)

Uber Monkey said:


> I try to honest with PAX who ask questions about how it is driving for Uber. I don't get on a soap box or go on a rant, but most of the time it ends with an awkward silence.


I just tell the truth. Yes, it's an interesting source of side income, but there are a lot of factors that Uber never mentions that you run into, that make it far less attractive. "So if you're asking because you know someone who might be considering it, I would recommend having a large shaker of salt on hand while reading Uber's promises."

I basically package it as "it works for me, part-time, but I wouldn't recommend staking your future on it". Presenting it as advice makes the negativity less obvious.


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## Kruhn (Sep 24, 2015)

CNJtrepreneur said:


> I just tell the truth. Yes, it's an interesting source of side income, but there are a lot of factors that Uber never mentions that you run into, that make it far less attractive. "So if you're asking because you know someone who might be considering it, I would recommend having a large shaker of salt on hand while reading Uber's promises."
> 
> I basically package it as "it works for me, part-time, but I wouldn't recommend staking your future on it". Presenting it as advice makes the negativity less obvious.


Problem is that right now 1 in three jobs in the US economy are 1099 type jobs like Uber drivers and it's expected to rise to 1 in 2 by 2025. So it'll be not only us drivers, but white collar workers who'll be joining this brave new world.


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## CNJtrepreneur (Mar 25, 2015)

Kruhn said:


> Problem is that right now 1 in three jobs in the US economy are 1099 type jobs like Uber drivers and it's expected to rise to 1 in 2 by 2025. So it'll be not only us drivers, but white collar workers who'll be joining this brave new world.


That's true, but there's a difference between working on a 1099 as a website designer / content writer / scopist / alarm installer / other job that doesn't create a constant, ongoing expense stream (gas + insurance + maintenance + depreciation), and doesn't significantly increase your risk of getting into an accident. Not one of the people I've talked to, who has expressed an interest in Uber, for themselves or someone else, had the slightest clue of the risks and expenses involved.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

He is creating a good discussion why the name calling?


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