# #UberRAMPAGE | Some questions that need answers!



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Jason Dalton Background Check*









Jeff Hadley, Kalamazoo's Chief of Public Safety, said that Jason Brian Dalton, DOB 6/22/1970, *"didn't have a lengthy criminal history"*. But Joe Sullivan, Uber's Chief of Security said (*listen at 1:50 mark*) "as the local police have made clear, the perpetrator had *No Criminal Record*".
Someone emailed me Jason Dalton's Instant Checkmate background check that lists a 7/30/2014 *Criminal Parole Probation Violation*, but does not list the original offense that led to the parole probation violation.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber's Lip Service to Safety*
Joe Sullivan tried to explain away (listen 1:50 - 3:40) lack of immediate follow-up to complaint by Matt Mellen to Uber around 4:30 PM on Saturday, at least one hour before the first shooting. He said Uber does not suspend a Driver for a "bad driving" complaint. But there were *multiple complaints* made to Uber by Jason Dalton's passengers throughout Saturday evening & night, while he continued to give multiple rides & carry on with his #UberRAMPAGE!

Joe Sullivan gave more hollow assurances of Safety on Uber's platform by pointing out it's Rating System & GPS tracking. But it's obvious that all the Safety Features embedded in the technology are meaningless if the feedback is not promptly acted upon by Uber.

On 11/24/15, Uber *established* a *Safety Hotline 800-353-8237*

Why is the Safety Hotline number not known to the Riders or Drivers?
Uber Drivers are being attacked on a regular basis. Some of these attacks are *reported in the media. *But more often, these attacks go unreported. See Rachi.bd's assault *here*







Read Wccmikey's attack *here*. So why is the existence of the Safety Hotline *not known to Drivers?*
Uber instituted a *Code of Conduct* for Riders & Drivers in January 2015. But to this day, why has Uber not even emailed the Riders about it's existence?
(Lyft also is guilty of paying lip service to Safety. Read about Lyft's deactivation of BlackWidow911 for protecting herself during an attack *here.)*


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

Lawsuit time! Without a fully functional supreme court uber loses 
With all the referral bonuses and lawsuits uber is going to be bleeding money. And don't forget about the class action case starting in june/july.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Obviously the blame ,if any ,lies with the public records office. Just as chi1cabby has proven here.
Plainly not Ubers fault as demonstrated here.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

You should be inquiring as to who occluded this suspects public records and Why was this done.
Nothing to do with Uber.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *Background Checks*
> View attachment 29099
> 
> Jeff Hadley, Kalamazoo's Chief of Public Safety, said that Jason Brian Dalton, DOB 6/22/1970, *"didn't have a lengthy criminal history"*. But Joe Sullivan, Uber's Chief of Security said (*listen at 1:50 mark*) "as the local police have made clear, the perpetrator had *No Criminal Record*".
> ...


He looks like a SATANIST that used to live down the street from me !


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Retweet Please, Post #1*

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/702231917291122688**







*


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

so much for a clean back ground


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Retweet Please, Post #2*

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/702255668204425216**







*


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

The lack of congruency between Uber's claims, police corroboration and the reading of the man's record is worrying. Hopefully, people will also frame those observations within the proper context, if something does go wrong, pax are pretty much on their own, drivers too for that matter. Driver's cars are barely marked and marked at the whim of the driver. Uber is washing its hands of the matter and clearly seems intent to resist any suggestions for change or culpability. 

States have allowed this to become a complete free for all. I hope people who care look at this from a broad enough perspective in order to address related concerns which perhaps aren't nearly as grave, but far more prevalent. If nothing is done, things will only get worse.


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## toi (Sep 8, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *Jason Dalton Background Check*
> View attachment 29099
> 
> Jeff Hadley, Kalamazoo's Chief of Public Safety, said that Jason Brian Dalton, DOB 6/22/1970, *"didn't have a lengthy criminal history"*. But Joe Sullivan, Uber's Chief of Security said (*listen at 1:50 mark*) "as the local police have made clear, the perpetrator had *No Criminal Record*".
> ...


If i were a family member of a victim of this incident i would go after uber in court of law for neglecence.
Unbelieveable stuff man. In a place like united states where the country is as big as the whole continent , where most major corporations have their local headquarters uber is trying to manage everything through an app. How efficient can that be ?
I think uber has a major failure in this incident to let this person drive on the platform exposing his lunacy to the riders.
This killer could have killed the same amount if uber deactivated him but at least they would save their riders from this crazy person.
Jeez...


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

toi said:


> If i were a family member of a victim of this incident i would go after uber in court of law for neglecence.
> Unbelieveable stuff man. In a place like united states where the country is as big as the whole continent , where most major corporations have their local headquarters uber is trying to manage everything through an app. How efficient can that be ?
> I think uber has a major failure in this incident to let this person drive on the platform exposing his lunacy to the riders.
> This killer could have killed the same amount if uber deactivated him but at least they would save their riders from this crazy person.
> Jeez...


Bare minimum - Uber operates by remote control and that is not responsible given the scale of their operations and what they provide despite their attempts at self definition . The driver's driving prior to the shootings, which I have heard was perhaps a response to a phone call taken while pax was on board, was an act of violence. Had there been an ability to directly express what happened to a local manager, as if such a person exists, could have clarified that what happened prior to the accident, resulting in a harrowing experience and a car side swiped was itself an act of violence and not just driver error.

Uber has indicated that their response was not immediate because the complaint was over poor driving or driver error and had it been an act of violence, he would have been taken off the road instantly. Remove the earliest incident reported from the context of the shooting and it still should be read as violent behavior, or could be argued to be such.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

toi said:


> I think uber has a major failure in this incident to let this person drive on the platform exposing his lunacy to the riders.
> This killer could have killed the same amount if uber deactivated him but at least they would save their riders from this crazy person.
> Jeez...


Lunacy to riders.......the worse that happened by this Uber driver to any pax was that one pax had a scary bumpy ride, but was not hurt, shot, or killed.
You say "If he was deactivated, at least they would have saved their riders".....but....Uber didn't deactivate him after the alledged sideswipe, all the riders were still "saved". None were shot, none were killed. Facts.

So if Uber did deactivate him, exactly what Uber Pax rider would they have saved?

EDIT: actually thats a rhetorical question. No need to even answer that. The facts show that no pax were hurt (deactivation or not) after the sideswipe incident. And now Since he's in jail probably for the rest of his life, there's no possibility he can hurt a pax ever


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## Santa (Jan 3, 2016)

Is that safety number just for the States or Canada as well??


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> .the worse that happened by this Uber driver to any pax was that one pax had a scary bumpy ride


The driver was not fit to drive at that point. I have read accounts of this ride which mention the driver receiving a phone call after which his behavior become problematic. At that point, he should have come off the road and been evaluated by someone from Uber. The lack of response by the police is a different issue.

Uber currently disables a driver's ability to accept new calls if they refuse too many in succession and the decision is made very quickly. From time to time, they do step in. The incident is over, the question remaining is, what changes need to be made? Uber only wants to be held to decision making processes which can be made impersonally and by remote control. That isn't helpful and isn't going to last.


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## toi (Sep 8, 2014)

Look gentlemen, i owned a cab company where i live. now just livery.

nothing major. the most we had were around 13 cars on the road on saturday nights but then again the population here is very small.
if any customer were to call and complain about a driver driving erratic , mentioning a sideswipe the thing what i would do is to reach out to that driver immediately and pull him aside to evaluate if what the passenger says is true. period. if i see fit he is off the road.

he insists on driving , there is no way. i threaten him to call the police on him and after that i dare him to drive.
similar situation happened where we ended up firing the driver .
his first week on the job and we got a complaint about him being intoxicated. pull him aside and evaluate. he is peacefully fired that night at the point.
i am not gonna risk anyones life because this person isnt a pro.

so uber can claim as much as its an app they are still responsible if anything happens while he is driving a passenger.especially after a customer reaches out to complain in a rational way. believe me sometimes people will call to complain making up stuff becuase the driver cut him off or something.that is why we evaluate with the driver. how the heck will uber ever do that.
ubers system is extremely flawed in safety.

what uber n lyft should have done was instead of putting every person who owns a car on the road at rock bottom prices , they should have had vehicle standarts for already taxi cabs or livery professional drivers.

so much to say here and so on ....


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

toi said:


> Look gentlemen, i owned a cab company where i live. now just livery.
> 
> nothing major. the most we had were around 13 cars on the road on saturday nights but then again the population here is very small.
> if any customer were to call and complain about a driver driving erratic , mentioning a sideswipe the thing what i would do is to reach out to that driver immediately and pull him aside to evaluate if what the passenger says is true. period. if i see fit he is off the road.
> ...


That is exactly how the taxi company I drive for what handle it. With respect to Bart's comments concerning whether or not pax were actually hurt or whether or not the something would have been prevented, it is hard to know. The bottom line is, the guy should have come off the road nd been talked to by a human being with the authority to represent the service he ws partnered with. It is that simple.

TNCs need to be reeled in. These operations can not be managed by remote control effectively anymore and never could. If a life is saved, it would prove almost impossible to know. This incident partly describes a ship without a rudder while no one takes responsibility when it runs aground.

Well said Toi.


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## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

Uberspeak and Uberfacts is not gonna save you from this one Travis!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Just checking in, because I thought the topic was going to provide some answers. So nobody has found out what he was convicted of to have a probation violation? I mean unless he's CIA, this should have taken about 15min to find out.

I don't see much talk about this on the main news websites. Most say the police, as well as Uber, said he didn't have a criminal background history.

I'll check back later, hopefully we can find out what he was on probation for


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Is it possible he was saved an arrest conviction by agreeing to probation. For all we know the guy was caught for shoplifting or in possession of pot. 

Let me know if you ever dig something up on a criminal conviction. Till then he has a clean record.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

toi said:


> Look gentlemen, i owned a cab company where i live. now just livery.
> 
> nothing major. the most we had were around 13 cars on the road on saturday nights but then again the population here is very small.
> if any customer were to call and complain about a driver driving erratic , mentioning a sideswipe the thing what i would do is to reach out to that driver immediately and pull him aside to evaluate if what the passenger says is true. period. if i see fit he is off the road.
> ...


You make a good point, Toi.
When my tiny cab company was at its peak, i had a night driver who was old as dirt and whos eyesight was waning.
Called me up one night-"Sir, i clipped a bicycle rider but everythings ok!"
I promptly ordered him back to the garage, and never let him drive one of my cabs again.
A week later he totalled two vehicles and the taxi he was driving in one horrific accident. "Doc says i cant drive anymore".
Yeah, no duh!
But it was triage by dispatch which kept these incidents from escalating in company.
Uber is remiss.


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## hotrodzoomguy (Jan 2, 2016)

My thought is Uber needs to have a real , time contact number. Having, said that, Uber had nothing to do with this senseless tragedy. Did this lady contact police when her boyfriend came home? Yes and the police weren't that concerned. His background check was clean and turning off his app would not have stopped him.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

On other forums, I have seen many complain about Uber's background check process but a) he didn't have a criminal history and b) why do you feel he wouldn't have gone on a rampage if Uber had refused him? That makes no sense. His job is unrelated. It would only make sense if he had killed passengers and he didn't.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> On other forums, I have seen many complain about Uber's background check process but a) he didn't have a criminal history and b) why do you feel he wouldn't have gone on a rampage if Uber had refused him? That makes no sense. His job is unrelated. It would only make sense if he had killed passengers and he didn't.


If he was shooting with the app on, that could raise some issues, hard to know. Also, if he snapped as a result of some Uber related stress, for example there are rumors floating around he may have freaked out over poor ratings (rumor mind you). Another issue could be that the app itself, the Uber activity is what brought him into a specific neighborhood and not another.

The final concern has been mentioned a bunch: the drivers a re simply off on their own. Regardless of the degree of culpability, how the event played out which included a poor response time to the swiped car incident, it seems evident, there needs to be more direct supervision of operations in any given town. Drivers can come and go, they can roam a state and no one knows what is going on, those should seem to be areas of concern going forward. One of the reasons Uber pulled out of Midland Tejas was over their request for a roster of driver names. In light of this tragedy, that request seems reasonable to me at least.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Bottom line ........ One step closer to regulation !
Babies always need babysitters


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> Bottom line ........ One step closer to regulation !
> Babies always need babysitters


Nuff Said!!!!


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

It's great that we have Safe Rides Fees so Uber can protect drivers and passengers and have an incident response team ready to jump on issues and contain them before someone, say, dies.

Uber is staffed by kids who want to work at a cool 'tech company' but are too dumb to work for Google. Local staff turnover is huge. Burnout is a big problem. Personally, I've been getting the runaround on an issue since November because no one wants to take the time to fix it, they just send out happygram canned responses. IMHO.


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## tohellwithu (Nov 30, 2014)

Bring the freaking CSR job back to US. Where person working knows what to do and well don't need someone ranting irrational answer to the question, from some country doing copy and paste job while cooking some spicy food in the kitchen. while driver are waiting to get some reasonable answer to the problem . I guess the driver would have been deactivated immediately if CSR was in US. I doubt uber CSR support still in US or not. Yup Travis wants everything cheap, cheap support from third world countries, cheap rate, cheap driver, cheap pax, cheap driver. Basically everything cheap but he wants UBER to grow big and expensive.


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## Ara (Sep 5, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *Jason Dalton Background Check*
> View attachment 29099
> 
> Jeff Hadley, Kalamazoo's Chief of Public Safety, said that Jason Brian Dalton, DOB 6/22/1970, *"didn't have a lengthy criminal history"*. But Joe Sullivan, Uber's Chief of Security said (*listen at 1:50 mark*) "as the local police have made clear, the perpetrator had *No Criminal Record*".
> ...


Maybe he is fake uber driver lol


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## cannonball7 (Feb 18, 2016)

Greed and incompetence is the answer to many questions.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Still no answer? It would seem that if Dalton had a criminal history that Uber overlooked, it would be all over the news by now. 

And for the record, the same guy (chief of police) that said he didn't have a lengthy record, depending on which news site you want to read, can be quoted as saying he had no criminal record. But not lengthy could also mean the traffic violations he had. I mean technically you are breaking the law even by speeding.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Could be a big exposé coming up....


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Still no answer? It would seem that if Dalton had a criminal history that Uber overlooked, it would be all over the news by now.
> 
> And for the record, the same guy (chief of police) that said he didn't have a lengthy record, depending on which news site you want to read, can be quoted as saying he had no criminal record. But not lengthy could also mean the traffic violations he had. I mean technically you are breaking the law even by speeding.


One of my daughter's ex-boyfriends had a bunch of warrants for traffic violations. He got probation for that. Then he got pulled over for another traffic violation and had a gun in his car. Six months in jail.

Anyway, yeah, probation could stem from something not too serious.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

If somebody else was able to send the record to chi1cabby, then how could Uber's own background check miss it?


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Huberis said:


> That is exactly how the taxi company I drive for what handle it. With respect to Bart's comments concerning whether or not pax were actually hurt or whether or not the something would have been prevented, it is hard to know.  The bottom line is, the guy should have come off the road nd been talked to by a human being with the authority to represent the service he ws partnered with. It is that simple.
> 
> TNCs need to be reeled in. These operations can not be managed by remote control effectively anymore and never could. If a life is saved, it would prove almost impossible to know. This incident partly describes a ship without a rudder while no one takes responsibility when it runs aground.
> 
> Well said Toi.


^^^
Agreed.
It's a personal business and should be managed on a personal level.


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## hotrodzoomguy (Jan 2, 2016)

Really? Uber calls driver." Come on in we have to give you a talking to about a rider complaint. "
Crazy Uber drive in Kalamazoo. " Oh, OK will be right in, but first I have a little something to take care of. Just wait right there, you will be my last stop" This was a crazy mass murderer nothing Uber could have done would have prevented his rampage.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

hotrodzoomguy said:


> Really? Uber calls driver." Come on in we have to give you a talking to about a rider complaint. "
> Crazy Uber drive in Kalamazoo. " Oh, OK will be right in, but first I have a little something to take care of. Just wait right there, you will be my last stop" This was a crazy mass murderer nothing Uber could have done would have prevented his rampage.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

hotrodzoomguy said:


> Really? Uber calls driver." Come on in we have to give you a talking to about a rider complaint. "
> Crazy Uber drive in Kalamazoo. " Oh, OK will be right in, but first I have a little something to take care of. Just wait right there, you will be my last stop" This was a crazy mass murderer nothing Uber could have done would have prevented his rampage.


The driver was involved in a hit and run accident. The guy hit a car, ran multiple lights or stop signs, was off the road. Hell yes, he should have been taken off the road just to look for damage to the car. It had been reported to Uber by the pax.. I have zero ability to claim it would have or would not have prevented the shootings which came later, but hell yes he should have come off the road, that is clear and not hard to make happen if the company has real management in place which is not the case.

There is no need for the questions to rise to the level of whether or not Uber was somehow culpable with respect to the murders in order to be seen as an appropriate opportunity to review Uber's operations as a whole. That is silly and childish. It most certainly of not contingent upon proving some sort of absolute responsibility. The incident as it played out opens the industry to certain questions it is that simple. Perhaps no one at Uber could have been expected to step in and prevent the murders. However, it clearly does beg the question: How involved in actual operations is Uber and just ow much of a free for all is this? What kind of a mess or can of worms is this and what kind of structure going forward needs implementation. It is about that simple.

This tragedy something that was of enough force as to get a whole lot of people looking or thinking about Uber's day to day operations. That is what it took. There are countless examples of more minor incidents which could be used to turn attention where needed, but it doesn;t much happen, it gets swept under the rug.

The initial incident was a hit and run, a car was sideswiped by an Uber driver as reported by the pax. The police seemed to fail, they have little ability to communicate with Uber concerning such matters and we all know how Uber has resisted turning over driver rosters, the presence of which would have been helpful.

I personally am not trying to judge Uber with respect to the shootings, that will take care of itself. Clearly, this story as a whole should present to most reasonable question an opportunity for all sorts of questions concerning what needs to be done better on Uber's part moving forward. Uber needs to be reeled in - clearly.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Huberis said:


> The driver was involved in a hit and run accident. The guy hit a car, ran multiple lights or stop signs, was off the road. Hell yes, he should have been taken off the road just to look for damage to the car. It had been reported to Uber by the pax.. I have zero ability to claim it would have or would not have prevented the shootings which came later, but hell yes he should have come off the road, that is clear and not hard to make happen if the company has real management in place which is not the case..


Once again, can you explain what "taken off the road means"?????????????? For Uber, it could only mean deactivation. Which means he can't pick up and shoot pax anymore (which he never did in the first place). But please, please please answer me this:

Even if Uber so calls 'takes him off the road', how in da world does that stop him from committing the shooting?

I'll wait for that.

Do you know that the guy switched cars? Do you know WHICH car he used when he was shooting WHICH people? Don't think that fact has been presented yet. So clearly Uber could deactivate him on that Uber registered car (but clearly he could still drive the car because its is), he could easily go out and use the other car to kill people (which is still currently a real possibility). Bottom line is it doesn't matter what Uber did, he could still use EITHER car to go out and commit murder

Could you at least admit, if its found that he was using his OTHER non Uber registered vehicle to shoot people, that Uber is in no way responsible for the shooting? (not liable at least)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uber needs to be reeled in - clearly.
For the 19th time, agreed. And don't think anybody has debated that. But be honest, if the guy didn't go out and shoot people, do you think the whole world would still know about that sidewipe?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> View attachment 29726


If you don't believe Uber should have a real world response to the initial hit and run incident which happened before the shootings began, you are entitled to your opinion. Many people are going to ask the question, and rightly so, that Uber should expect such events to happen and should be expected to be engaged in a more meaningful way. Not providing municipalities with a roster of drivers is a not be cooperative. Had they more brick and mortar offices, made basic trip data available, the request wouldn't be needed.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Huberis said:


> If you don't believe Uber should have a real world response to the initial hit and run incident which happened before the shootings began, you are entitled to your opinion. .


Except I never debated that. So where are you grasping this incorrect info from? The initial hit and run was clearly an Uber related incident,a pax was in the car.I've never distanced Uber from that.They say anything is possible, but Its pretty much impossible to exclude Uber from that incident.Some suggested they have a real time hotline/contact # etc. All of that is valid. Uber has to have a response to that,sure.

If you going to quote me on my stance or point of view, please do it correctly. Thanks.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Once again, can you explain what "taken off the road means"?????????????? For Uber, it could only mean deactivation. Which means he can't pick up and shoot pax anymore (which he never did in the first place). But please, please please answer me this:
> 
> Even if Uber so calls 'takes him off the road', how in da world does that stop him from committing the shooting?
> 
> I'll wait for that


Where have I said Uber could have or should have been expected to prevent the shooting? That is not my point and never has been. That seems to be your hang up Bart.

As for take him off the road, there were reports he was driving in a way that could easily be described as violent, there was mention of him possibly reacting to a personal phone call. He made contact with a car. A proper manager would have insisted a police report be taken. A proper manager would have and could easily have him drive out to the office and inspect the car and talk to the man.

If there was damage to his car, there is a good chance he would have been taken off the road.

I have make zero claims such actions would have prevented the following tragedies Bart and I never have. However, that would have been a more responsible way to handle what appears to be the first noteworthy event of the evening.

Why is your bar set at whether or not the killings would or would not have been prevented by Uber's actions. That isn't the point. The point is, what could they have done that in some way may have been helpful? Where were their protocols making trouble more likely etc?

Why does your metric only for things which ore exclusively linked to the shootings themselves? There is so much more to be considered.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Except I never debated that. So where are you grasping this incorrect info from? The initial hit and run was clearly an Uber related incident,a pax was in the car.I've never distanced Uber from that.They say anything is possible, but Its pretty much impossible to exclude Uber from that incident.Some suggested they have a real time hotline/contact # etc. All of that is valid. Uber has to have a response to that,sure.
> 
> If you going to quote me on my stance or point of view, please do it correctly. Thanks.


Bart, this has largely been my focus from the get go. Yes, I have pondered the role of the Uber app being on during the killing and whether or not the app played a role in the distribution of the shooting throughout the town. Those issues are secondary with respect to Uber's role perhaps. They may have a bigger role in what are sure to be civil lawsuits which are bound to come from this.

Other than that, my comments of culpability have been focused on the initial hit and run, asat.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Huberis said:


> .
> 
> Other than that, my comments of culpability have been focused on the initial hit and run, asat.


Well you know we are on the same page then, when it comes to the hit and run right?

So with that I'll bow out for now, and wait (even though its been a week) for the authorities to find out what criminal history Dalton had that Uber missed. I just don't understand how it would take so long to get this info.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Well then you know we are on the same page then, when it comes to the hit and run right?
> 
> Sowith that I'll bow out for now, and wait (even though its been a week) for the authorities to find out what criminal history Dalton had that Uber missed. I just don't understand how it would take so long to get this info.


Fair enough.

I am not interested in making some sort of claim as to Uber's final culpability with respect to the murders, at this time on this forum. This isn't the time or place. The initial hit and run is far more simple. As an incident it is probably a common enough an issue. It is probably routinely handled as it was on the evening of the shootings and largely goes ignored. Look at the police response which was to brush it off as an example. There does seem to be enough known about that first incident to discuss it here and now before it is forgotten or swept under the rug as not relevant to the actual shooting.

As for more info with respect to the investigation of the shootings, a week isn't that much time. The shooter may not be cooperating. He could be talking mostly nonsense. hard to know. This is likely a sensitive issue and my guess is the investigators are on a schedule designed to suit their needs first.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

If the driver worked for WalMart or Ace Hardware, or whatever, no news outlet would have mentioned his job.

My issue is that Uber instituted these Safe Rides Fees with the promise of an incident response team, and they epic failed on the entire thing.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> If the driver worked for WalMart or Ace Hardware, or whatever, no news outlet would have mentioned his job.
> 
> My issue is that Uber instituted these Safe Rides Fees with the promise of an incident response team, and they epic failed on the entire thing.


This is not true at all. Any employer would have been mentioned because the killings happened while at work.

However, the overriding issue is that it was Uber and government agencies across the world are justifiably questioning the safety of Uber and how to regulate it.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> This is not true at all. Any employer would have been mentioned because the killings happened while at work.
> 
> However, the overriding issue is that it was Uber and government agencies across the world are justifiably questioning the safety of Uber and how to regulate it.


What company was involved in that accident with comedian Tracy Morgan?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

^^should spring to mind immediately^^


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Jason Dalton bears a striking resemblance to a younger John Wayne Gacy.

How can Uber possibly know who they are doing business with when there is never face to face contact/conversation or even a phone conversation with an Uber sub/independent contractor by an actual Uber employee?

I've driven for quite some time and have yet to speak with any employee of the company regarding business.

As far as I can tell Uber is just some nameless faceless non interactive app run by a computer with independent contractors from foreign soil doing CSR work.

Let's just call it "coldly impersonal" on Uber's part when it comes to driver contractors.

I did business with hundreds of independent contractors for decades. There was always a company employee face to face engagement with every last one of them before doing business, and a few times that resulted in a no go on doing business.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

observer said:


> ^^should spring to mind immediately^^


I'm not familiar with the business relationship between Walmart and it's drivers.


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Do you think Uber's RATES were a contributing factor in the mass shooting? The straw that broke the camel's back? Jason had lost a full time job and decided to work for Uber. THE RATES IN KALAMAZOO are Base: 90 cents; Per Minute Wait: 15 cents; Per Mile: 0.75 cents; Minimum: $3.95. These rates are below minimum wage rates and an Uber opportunity only for Bankruptcy. Jason's wife said he was "depressed and tired" -- at those rates anyone would be depressed and tired. It's amazing how the press doesn't mention Uber's Kalamazoo rates as a possible contributing factor to the mass shooting. Uber's mass shooting rates - 15 cents/min. waiting, 75 cents a mile.

*http://jacksonville.com/breaking-ne...depressed-did-pick-uber-fares-between-violent*


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Ca$h4 said:


> Do you think Uber's RATES were a contributing factor in the mass shooting? The straw that broke the camel's back?* Jason had lost a full time job*..... . It's amazing how the press doesn't mention Uber's Kalamazoo rates as a possible contributing factor to the mass shooting. Uber's mass shooting rates - 15 cents/min. waiting, 75 cents a mile.


Everybody and their momma wants Uber to burn huh? smh. Looking at what I've bolded, why does everyone exclude that as being a possible reason why he was upset? Im sure he was making much more money as an insurance adjuster than driving for 75cents a mile. Why couldnt he have not went ballistic because of that?Just not possible at all since he had an Uber trade dress on his car. It just HAS to be because of Uber right?

You say its sad that the article doesn't mention the rates as a possible contributing factor, I think its sad that in your whole post you don't contribute ANYTHING to Dalton bearing responsibility to the shooting!!!! Give the killer a pass, and put full blame on Uber is the theme of all the Kalamazoo topics in this forum. That's what's so sad here

On a side note, and on topic, its been a couple of weeks: You telling me people still haven't found out what past crime he committed (that Uber supposedly missed) that he was allegedly on probation for? This is what hate for Uber does: pick up any 2 bit piece of information off the net and take it for truth and run with it.* SMH*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber has been testing a secret safety hotline, but it wasn't available in Kalamazoo*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/uber...ne-but-it-wasnt-available-in-kalamazoo-2016-3*


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Bart when are you even going to give it a rest already. I don't think it's uber fault that he went postal on those victims. I do hold uber accountable for not responding in timely manner to an earlier pax grievance that the driver (Dalton) was driving recklessly. Had that been a cab driver (driving recklessly) he/she would have been off the road much sooner. Now granted that still might not stop Dalton from shooting innocent people, but the issue here is uber responding to anyone in an untimely manner. 

If you wanna keep defending uber that's your choice.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

ubersuperbowlstrike said:


> I don't get why 911 is so difficult? It's an emergency dial 911 then call Uber, common sense is lacking these days, people use GPS when they literally can just look up, record people instead of helping, geez if I'm in a taxi, Uber or even a friend's car & they side swiping not letting me out last thing imma do is call their boss I'm dialing 911 then it's in their hands


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