# D-Day has arrived...



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

in just a matter of hours Judge Chen will be issuing some kind of something regarding CLASS ACTION of 160,000 potential plaintiffs against Uber in employee misclassification... any pre-thoughts.. predictions... the Judge Chen Pre-Game Show is now on the air....


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

Had a attorney passenger that his focus is on labor law last week. 
In his view, judge Chen will side on the employee classification.


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## ApertureHour (May 8, 2015)

One of my issues with being classified as an employee, is that Uber will suddenly realise there's a huge driver over-saturation. And I've only been driving for 2 months, which means I'll be one of the first to go...


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

guaranteed someone was paid off and there won't be the employee classification. it's a garbage world out there, everyone has a price.


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## RainbowPlate (Jul 12, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Had a attorney passenger that his focus is on labor law last week.
> In his view, judge Chen will side on the employee classification.


Your attorney passenger needs to go back to law school. This decision is NOT about "employee versus contractor." It is about whether the case can proceed as a class action.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

i am sure of one thing.. Uber has the word APPEAL locked and loaded


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## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Does anyone know if there is an IN-courtroom webcam where we can watch the proceedings online?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

LEAFdriver said:


> Does anyone know if there is an IN-courtroom webcam where we can watch the proceedings online?


It's a Federal Court. No Live Streaming or Live Tweeting.


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## berserk42 (Apr 24, 2015)

Right. This is why you see pictures of interns literally sprinting from the Supreme Court with news of their rulings.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*"D-Day has arrived..."*
That's a bit over dramatic, I'd say. There likely won't be a ruling today.

*What's At Stake In Uber Lawsuit's Class-Action Hearing*
*http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...social&utm_channel=Technology&linkId=16105637*


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *"D-Day has arrived..."*
> That's a bit over dramatic, I'd say. There likely won't be a ruling today.
> 
> *What's At Stake In Uber Lawsuit's Class-Action Hearing*
> *http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...social&utm_channel=Technology&linkId=16105637*


Nope it will take awhile.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

LEAFdriver said:


> Does anyone know if there is an IN-courtroom webcam where we can watch the proceedings online?


the hearing is scheduled for 1:30 pm pst


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

ApertureHour said:


> One of my issues with being classified as an employee, is that Uber will suddenly realise there's a huge driver over-saturation. And I've only been driving for 2 months, which means I'll be one of the first to go...


you've been driving for 2 months this makes you a veteran


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *"D-Day has arrived..."*
> That's a bit over dramatic, I'd say. There likely won't be a ruling today.
> 
> *What's At Stake In Uber Lawsuit's Class-Action Hearing*
> *http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...social&utm_channel=Technology&linkId=16105637*


excerpt from this Forbes article...

<<Judge Chen is not expected to make an official decision on Thursday afternoon, though he may indicate which way he will rule, and will issue a written decision in the next few weeks.>>

if today is not D-Day then we'll call it Pre-D-Day .. but i think we might get a good feel once we read the transcripts of the hearing


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Please take a moment to answer this Poll:
*Ongoing Poll | Do Uber & Lyft Exercise Excessive Control Over IC Drivers.*


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber will never classy us as employees. That goes against their profit making business model. Uber will always have the option to give us drivers a lot more leeway as so we wont be classified as employees from the ruling going forward.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Follow for live updates from the courtroom:
Susie Cagle (@susie_c): *https://twitter.com/susie_c?s=09*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

And Check out Carolyn Said (@CSaid): *https://twitter.com/CSaid?s=09*


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> And Check out Carolyn Said (@CSaid): *https://twitter.com/CSaid?s=09*


Some of us don't **** for various reasons.
Any particular direction this thing is heading?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Any particular direction this thing is heading?


Judging from the various tweets mentioning the judge "Raising Eyebrows" at Uber Atty., I'd say that this thing is headed towards a Class Certification.


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Judging from the various tweets mentioning the judge "Raising Eyebrows" at Uber Atty., I'd say that this thing is headed towards a Class Certification.


Judge Chen gonna Ching Chang Uber


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

Judge Gives Uber a Hard Time in Class Cert Hearing
: http://www.therecorder.com/id=12027...Hard-Time-in-Class-Cert-Hearing#ixzz3i5SokRIH


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Follow for live updates from the courtroom:
> Susie Cagle (@susie_c): *https://twitter.com/susie_c?s=09*


I laughed at so many of Uber's lawyers arguments... embarrassed for them actually. Judge Chen gets it.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

arto71 said:


> Judge Gives Uber a Hard Time in Class Cert Hearing
> : http://www.therecorder.com/id=12027...Hard-Time-in-Class-Cert-Hearing#ixzz3i5SokRIH


have to sign up for an account just to read article? no thanks


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Judging from the various tweets mentioning the judge "Raising Eyebrows" at Uber Atty., I'd say that this thing is headed towards a Class Certification.


I don't know how he could have kept a straight face and not asked if they actually went to law school...


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> have to sign up for an account just to read article? no thanks


*Class Cert Hearing*

Marisa Kendall, The Recorder
August 6, 2015 | 0 Comments 

SHARE
REPRINTS








U.S. District Judge Edward Chen, Northern District of California
Hillary Jones-Mixon / The Recorder
Updated 8.06.15, 6:15 p.m., with additional reporting.

SAN FRANCISCO - A federal judge seemed unmoved Thursday by declarations from 400 Uber drivers who say they like being independent contractors, suggesting the headline-grabbing tactic won't be enough to defeat class certification in a case that threatens to force the company to overhaul its entire business model.

U.S. District Judge Edward Chen of the Northern District of California said he's not convinced Uber's driver survey proves the majority of drivers object to a lawsuit that seeks to provide them with minimum wage and other benefits guaranteed to employees.

Chen said 400 declarations sounds "impressive, except when you measure that against 160,000 class members, that measures out to 0.25 percent, not even that."

The battle over class certification is one of the most important fights of the case, and the stakes are high for Uber. Last month a San Francisco company that provided on-demand house cleaning and shared Uber's independent contractor model, shut down following four lawsuits over worker pay and benefits.

Lead plaintiffs lawyer Shannon Liss-Riordan has said if she can't bring a class action against Uber, she'll start filing individual lawsuits on behalf of the nearly 2,000 drivers that have contacted her firm.

"Far less efficient," she wrote in an email, "but that's what we'd have to do."

During Thursday's roughly three-hour hearing on class certification, Chen said there are other interests besides the drivers' to take into account. Uber must comply with labor code regulations, Chen said. And the company cannot put competitors at a disadvantage by improperly classifying its workers.

"You cannot allow naysayers and a group of potential class members who object to control the situation," Chen said. "You're always going to get some people who don't agree with it."

Uber's lead lawyer, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher partner Theodore Boutrous Jr., said the issue is whether the named plaintiffs in the suit can adequately represent class members.

"Plaintiffs have three people," Boutrous said. "Three named plaintiffs. They didn't bother to find out what anyone else desired."

Liss-Riordan countered that the case isn't a "popularity contest." In employment cases there are always "happy camper" declarations from workers, Liss-Riordan said.

For weeks Boutrous' team has played up the 400 driver declarations submitted in response to plaintiffs' class certification motion. He's already held two press conferences on the opinions of the dissenting drivers, and during Thursday's hearing he was quick to turn the discussion to the declarations.

Chen seemed to find another question more interesting: if all Uber drivers should be independent contractors, doesn't that mean there is enough commonality among the group to certify a class?

"How can you argue that everyone is an independent contractor, it's clear, and yet there are individual variables that preclude class certification?" Chen asked.

Boutrous maintained there are many other factors that can't be proven on a class-wide basis. He argued Uber has used 17 driver contracts since it began operating in California in 2009. Depending on which agreement binds a driver, Boutrous said, he or she is subject to a varying degree of control by Uber-a key factor in determining employment status. For example, only 10 of the 17 agreements specify Uber can deactivate a driver if his or her customer rating is too low, and five prohibit workers from driver for apps that compete with Uber.

Chen directed his toughest questions at Uber and said much of the proof used in this case "is going to look very class wide." However, the judge expressed concern about drivers who ran their own car service or limo businesses while driving for Uber. "That sure does look like an independent contractor to me," he said.

During a press conference before the hearing, Boutrous reiterated Uber's position that most drivers want to be independent contractors, not employees. The three named plaintiffs in the suit don't represent the desires of the class as a whole, he said.

"You can't have a class action when that is the situation," Boutrous said, flanked by nine Uber drivers who have attested that they appreciate the independence of being a contractor.

The drivers included a grounds keeper for the San Francisco Giants, a woman who works in advertising at a Spanish radio station, and a former public television technician who was laid off in 2002. One carried an Uber tote bag.

Alicia Devora, 50, of San Francisco, said she enjoys the independence of being an Uber driver, including being able to pull over and turn off the app whenever she wants to eat or take a break.

"No one's telling me what I can do or cannot do," she said.

_Contact the reporter at [email protected]._


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

really appreciate this article being posted up here!

excerpt...

<<And the company cannot put competitors at a disadvantage by improperly classifying its workers.>>

Uber is slowly wiping out the licensed taxi industry and it will be proven that they are achieving their takeover by cheating on every possible corner


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

itsablackmarket said:


> guaranteed someone was paid off and there won't be the employee classification. it's a garbage world out there, everyone has a price.


Follow the money


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## Fat Jack (Jul 5, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> <<And the company cannot put competitors at a disadvantage by improperly classifying its workers.>>
> 
> Uber is slowly wiping out the licensed taxi industry and it will be proven that they are achieving their takeover by cheating on every possible corner


Most important point made that was reported in the article. Uber is using predatory pricing to try and put competitors out of business and it's doing it by exploiting their drivers.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

another good excerpt from an article i just read...

<<Chen appeared skeptical of Uber's arguments at the hearing's outset. "Isn't it contradictory that Uber says every single driver is an independent contractor and yet also says they are dramatically different from one another and thus can't be certified as a class?" he asked.>>


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## uber-ct (Jun 4, 2015)

Ok...here in Cape Town South Africa ..I'm a tour guide. .. doing a tour today..pax from Washington DC.....later tonight I have a pre booked pick up at the airport....then around 12am. .I'll switch on the app and I'll hit the surge at 3X ...now if I was an employee , will uber dictate the hours I work. ...not something I'm looking forward too....


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Had a attorney passenger that his focus is on labor law last week.
> In his view, judge Chen will side on the employee classification.


I'll up you. Had 5 attorneys in my car today ... we didn't talk about employee vs contractor.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> you've been driving for 2 months this makes you a veteran


^^^
Yeh... I'd like to know what the churn rate is within the first two months.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

arto71 said:


> *Class Cert Hearing*
> 
> Marisa Kendall, The Recorder
> August 6, 2015 | 0 Comments
> ...


^^^
"Flanked by nine Uber drivers". 
I just wonder how deep they dug into the petty cash drawer to get those drivers in there. 
Or should I ask instead... I wonder what kind of drug therapy they gave the drivers to convince them. Hah! 
Or as P.T. Barnum once said... "There's a sucker born every minute". 
If they really wanted to make a statement, they should have gotten a few hundred Uber drivers to get in their cars and circle the courthouse like Preston Tucker did during his infamous court battle to keep producing the Tucker auto. 
They would have had to give them at least a 5x.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Fat Jack said:


> Most important point made that was reported in the article. Uber is using predatory pricing to try and put competitors out of business and it's doing it by exploiting their drivers.


^^^
Exactly!
Uber could have avoided this whole mess by keeping the rates up around 2 bux. 
Uber's whole "thing" was fast arrival times instead of the standard one or two hour arrival time of a regular cab... or even five hours, and sometimes never as it is here in Vegas. lol.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

sidewazzz said:


> I'll up you. Had 5 attorneys in my car today ... we didn't talk about employee vs contractor.


^^^
More likely whiplash.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

RainbowPlate said:


> Your attorney passenger needs to go back to law school. This decision is NOT about "employee versus contractor." It is about whether the case can proceed as a class action.


Wrong.
The HEARING currently awaiting a ruling is about class-action status.
The CASE is indeed about the mis-classification of workers -
and Judge Chen has already ruled that the case has merit and will be heard in jury trial.


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## My Cabby (Dec 2, 2014)

17 different agreements?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> "Flanked by nine Uber drivers".
> I just wonder how deep they dug into the petty cash drawer to get those drivers in there.
> Or should I ask instead... I wonder what kind of drug therapy they gave the drivers to convince them. Hah!
> ...


Uber has something on all 9 drivers, like groping pax and getting caught.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Even if the class action suit moves forward and finds we are employees, it doesn't mean it has to stay that way. I think most of us agree we would like to be IC's BUT that means we should be IC's and control how we do the work. Getting deactivation notices for not accepting every shit lead they send your way, not going to fly. Setting predatory prices, sorry. Not being able to solicit tips, I don't think so. 
Should be interestng. I hope they succeed at getting class action status, discovery is going to be awesome, can't wait to see what scum bag details emerge about their current practices. Travis's emails should be golden.


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## nunyabusiness (Jan 16, 2015)

My Cabby said:


> 17 different agreements?


The fact that he admitted that will eventually bite him in the ass.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Even if the class action suit moves forward and finds we are employees, it doesn't mean it has to stay that way. I think most of us agree we would like to be IC's BUT that means we should be IC's and control how we do the work. Getting deactivation notices for not accepting every shit lead they send your way, not going to fly. Setting predatory prices, sorry. Not being able to solicit tips, I don't think so.
> Should be interestng. I hope they succeed at getting class action status, discovery is going to be awesome, can't wait to see what scum bag details emerge about their current practices. Travis's emails should be golden.


fantastic take!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> another good excerpt from an article i just read...
> 
> <<Chen appeared skeptical of Uber's arguments at the hearing's outset. "Isn't it contradictory that Uber says every single driver is an independent contractor and yet also says they are dramatically different from one another and thus can't be certified as a class?" he asked.>>


Uber hates logic.

I also like how he doesn't put much credence in UBER'S driver survey. Talk about biased research.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

nunyabusiness said:


> The fact that he admitted that will eventually bite him in the ass.


Funny that since only 5 of 17 threaten to deactivate drivers for low rating that means it's ok?


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## nunyabusiness (Jan 16, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Funny that since only 5 of 17 threaten to deactivate drivers for low rating that means it's ok?


It was almost as if the lawyers Uber hired knew something like this would happen, the whole classification lawsuit, and figured if they rotated several of these agreements to different drivers, then it would not be cause for a lawsuit. We will soon see if their "theory" worked for them.


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## nunyabusiness (Jan 16, 2015)

It just occurred to me that Uber is having Houston drivers sign some agreement. Not only that but the rotation of the guarantees seems a little suspect. Maybe they're trying to avoid a class action lawsuit here in Houston? Guarantees are not the same for everybody, so it would make sense to conclude that the agreements are different, too.


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