# Passenger no pay = Driver no pay



## Caixa (Jun 4, 2018)

Went driving for a few hours tonight and went to cash out at the end of the night to find that I was not able to cash out. When I investigate with uber support it turns out that apparently I got some bum rides where the passengers didn't/couldn't pay. And it appears that my entire cashout process is frozen until the passengers pay up. Are there others with experiences like this or a new kink in the great uber machine?


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## JDubs225 (Mar 17, 2017)

It seams like Uber doesn't even have to cover their own rides anymore...this absolutely makes no sense to me..Its not my responsibility to collect payment from passengers yet I cant cash out because the balances are unpaid.. This has never happen before and the answers that I am getting make no sense. Can someone tell me what does a pax using a promo code for a free ride have to do with me. From my understanding Uber is supposed to cover all the rides we give and it's there job to collect payment from pax.. I don't have access to my money because the passengers haven't paid..They are telling me to give more rides to have access to the money that I have earned already!! WTF!!


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Wow! I never experienced this. This is something that needs to be on Twitter or other social media.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

It’s not our responsibility for payments, Uber or Lyft accepted the request and it’s their problem, I would contact support and tell them that.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

There was this thread from yesterday.

If that becomes a thing, gonna be a lotta issues.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/instant-pay.330337/


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

In a regular commercial transaction where you had an account receivable outstanding, your contract for payment is with the purchaser of the goods, nothing more, and no one else. It doesn't matter if the company cannot collect their accounts, they still owe you the money. The two are not tied together in any way, shape, or form.

Now this is one of those things that no individual driver is going to go after them for because, to chase down a few dollars will cost you much more. But it does not bode well for their public image.


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## emdeplam (Jan 13, 2017)

When two businesses disagree you have the contracted option of arbitration


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

emdeplam said:


> When two businesses disagree you have the contracted option of arbitration


In this case arbitration is unnecessary, Uber contracted with the pax for a ride, that's why they have a booking fee, it's Uber's responsibility to verify that money is available from the pax which in this case it didn't until after the ride was completed. Uber must pay.


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## emdeplam (Jan 13, 2017)

Uber must pay.

Says who. You can say whatever you want. Enforcement is another thing

Re arbitration


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

This is such BULL. Uber needs to know whether the CC is valid, or not. That's not you're job.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Caixa said:


> Went driving for a few hours tonight and went to cash out at the end of the night to find that I was not able to cash out. When I investigate with uber support it turns out that apparently I got some bum rides where the passengers didn't/couldn't pay. And it appears that my entire cashout process is frozen until the passengers pay up. Are there others with experiences like this or a new kink in the great uber machine?


Guber is the one who knows how to kick it's own b***. Bunch of circus clown. This problem will not go away as guber has been chasing city bus riders business for a while. Guber may be tired of loosing and now wants drivers to chip in.


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## tiburonpup78 (Apr 27, 2019)

Caixa said:


> Went driving for a few hours tonight and went to cash out at the end of the night to find that I was not able to cash out. When I investigate with uber support it turns out that apparently I got some bum rides where the passengers didn't/couldn't pay. And it appears that my entire cashout process is frozen until the passengers pay up. Are there others with experiences like this or a new kink in the great uber machine?


When will an attorney or law firm take on these monsters for a class action suit, I am sickened by these heart breaking stories and the drivers are suffering and paying for free service, it is awful, I am sorry, I just went through this ordeal where a man entered my car alleging a service dog and it was a 50 lb pitbull, that did not have his mouth secured, in the front seat of a compact car, no seat belt, they slammed the car doors, almost damaging the vehicle, after I told them no. They suspended my entire account and put me offline pending an investigation. Damn, this does not seem legal or right. I am sorry for your loss. :/


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## Munsuta (May 4, 2019)

emdeplam said:


> Uber must pay.
> 
> Says who. You can say whatever you want. Enforcement is another thing
> 
> Re arbitration


So now Uber doesn't have to pay us but they have to pay you to shit post all the time. What happens when Uber stops paying you? Does your shit posting magically stop as well?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Uber always has paid me, whether the customer's credit card is good or not. I do not use InstaPay, or whatever it is, so I get mine once per week on UberX/Uber Pool. Uber Taxi pays every day, Monday through Friday, except bank holidays. Still, Uber always has paid me for every trip. I have been on Uber Taxi since February, 2013 (shortly after it launched, here) and UberX since July, 2014. In all that time, I must have had at least one passenger on all three levels of Uber whose card was no good.

Because it is InstaPay, Uber must not transfer the funds until it gets them from the customer. If the customer does not make it good, does this mean that you get what at my cab company we used to call a "pork chop"?

Gr*yft* has this "twenty four hours to pay" policy. If you do not use whatever InstaPay that Gr*yft* offers, it will pay you for the trip after a certain time, if the customer does not make it good. This has been my experience, but, I do not use any of the InstaPay that either one offers.


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Caixa said:


> Went driving for a few hours tonight and went to cash out at the end of the night to find that I was not able to cash out. When I investigate with uber support it turns out that apparently I got some bum rides where the passengers didn't/couldn't pay. And it appears that my entire cashout process is frozen until the passengers pay up. Are there others with experiences like this or a new kink in the great uber machine?


How about Uber reimburses us the $2.9 booking fee and we can form a gang (organization) for legalized debt collection ourselves? :rollseyes:

I thought the transaction should be successful before securing a ride.... Never realize the algorithm is so ignorant when it comes to $$$


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> It's not our responsibility for payments, Uber or Lyft accepted the request and it's their problem, I would contact support and tell them that.


and what in the heck would the Philippines contact "support" telephone operator do? Obviously you have never had to call the Philippines otherwise you never would have suggested this.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Honestly, not worrying about getting paid is the only good thing about Uber involving their payment system. If you want to be the one to hold all the money and divvy it up (instead of simply facilitating a transaction between 2 parties for a fee), you should be prepared to eat the occasional fraud from deadbeats and scammers. Classic Uber... always trying to have their cake and eat it, too.


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## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

If taking a scorched earth approach... If Uber is not paying then the contract/TOS is null and void - including the arbitration clause. Consideration is a pillar of contract law.

Add late fees + interest, send it to collections and sue if needed. Drive for Lyft.

I'd like to see Uber not pay their insurance or internet bill.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Wow this is terrible news for drivers if this becomes widespread. Remember, U/L consider themselves "Payment Processors" only and the Gross amount shows as your income which then all their fees have to be deducted out of. I hope they don't take the position that there was no "payment" to process and drivers get screwed. That would be terrible and lead to even more drivers leaving. Short sighted and stupid if thats what they start doing.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

It would be nice if either of the first two posters would follow up here with an update.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

I understand that uber is just a payment processor and if some reason the rider didnt pay (stolen card, fake card, etc.) then we eat it as any business owner BUT I DID NOT GIVE OUT PROMO CODES for free rides. If uber gives free rides they STILL HAVE TO PAY US!


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Caixa said:


> Went driving for a few hours tonight and went to cash out at the end of the night to find that I was not able to cash out. When I investigate with uber support it turns out that apparently I got some bum rides where the passengers didn't/couldn't pay. And it appears that my entire cashout process is frozen until the passengers pay up. Are there others with experiences like this or a new kink in the great uber machine?


I've never heard of such a thing in 2 1/2 years of driving for u/l. Those messages are highly suspect to me. I 'm betting you get paid all the money they owe you though.....


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

NotanEmployee said:


> I understand that uber is just a payment processor and if some reason the rider didnt pay (stolen card, fake card, etc.) then we eat it as any business owner BUT I DID NOT GIVE OUT PROMO CODES for free rides. If uber gives free rides they STILL HAVE TO PAY US!


And they will pay, something triggered a fraud alert and instant pay was temporarily suspended.

A significantly higher than normal free ride codes could do this. To the fraud detection program it looks like you're setting up new rider accounts and requesting yourself with the free first ride code. This was an issue way back in the olden day of 2015.

Once the other riders spend some money or you make some more $ in fares, your account will be unflagged.

It isn't that common, but it's not unheard of either.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

peteyvavs said:


> In this case arbitration is unnecessary, Uber contracted with the pax for a ride, that's why they have a booking fee, it's Uber's responsibility to verify that money is available from the pax which in this case it didn't until after the ride was completed. Uber must pay.


Have you read the Technology Service Agreement? Spoiler: you're wrong.

The transportation contract is between you and the customer, and the booking fee is part of the contract between you and Uber. Unfortunately at no point does any part of liability for any part of the service fall on Uber - it's all on you and the passenger. That's the contract you agreed to.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

emdeplam said:


> Uber must pay.
> 
> Says who. You can say whatever you want. Enforcement is another thing
> 
> Re arbitration


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## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

To us drivers the pax are Uber's customers and we just provide a vehicle and ourselves as the driver. To Uber the pax is our customers and they just provide the technology which match driver with pax. Technically Uber could not only just take our payment away like they do now, but they could make us pay the amount the pax owes to Uber as the pax is our customer, not Uber's customer.

I am going to call it now and say this will happen eventually. There is no depth to which these rideshare companies will not sink.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Laughable that Uber is apparently giving out free rides *on our behalf...! ?*

I've explained this a few times before where Uber won't allow you to use instant pay if your current balance is negative due to nonpayments, but I had no idea they were including free ride vouchers in that. Effectively for those rides then they are charging us to drive the passengers around!


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

CarpeNoctem said:


> If taking a scorched earth approach... If Uber is not paying then the contract/TOS is null and void - including the arbitration clause. Consideration is a pillar of contract law.
> 
> Add late fees + interest, send it to collections and sue if needed. Drive for Lyft.
> 
> I'd like to see Uber not pay their insurance or internet bill.


And if they refuse to pay or dont pay up in time your able to put a lien on Uber's headquarters lol


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

TBone said:


> And if they refuse to pay or dont pay up in time your able to put a lien on Uber's headquarters lol


Sorry, won't work.

They don't own it and they charge their landlord to let them use it.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

CarpeNoctem said:


> If Uber is not paying then the contract/TOS is null and void - including the arbitration clause


Playing devils advocate here...

Most contracts, including our TOS, have a Survivability clause. This means that if one portion of the contract is unenforceable or broken, then the others are still in good standing.


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## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

emdeplam said:


> When two businesses disagree you have the contracted option of arbitration


LOL, ??


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

Caixa said:


> Went driving for a few hours tonight and went to cash out at the end of the night to find that I was not able to cash out. When I investigate with uber support it turns out that apparently I got some bum rides where the passengers didn't/couldn't pay. And it appears that my entire cashout process is frozen until the passengers pay up. Are there others with experiences like this or a new kink in the great uber machine?


WTF, its getting better and better. Now they don't pay because they couldn't collect !?!?
What's wrong with the idiotic uber management?
I never leave more than $50 with any of them, just don't trust them!!!!


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## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

Pretty soon they will just give us credit to shop the company store. Loaf of bread $15


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Sounds like this is merely an issue with instant pay delays, not that he isn’t getting paid. I don’t see any problems here...call me when they refuse to pay. I bet they pay within a week!

The other posters are correct that drivers contract with Uber specifies that driver “collects” the payment and gives Uber their cut. Driver then contracts with Uber for Uber to process the payment, but this should not be confused with Uber collecting the payment. They are collecting physically but not for legal intents and purposes, so they could easily screw the driver in cases of fraud etc.

I don’t think they can do it over promos though, there’s nothing in the contract that lets them issue promos at your expense...I don’t think. Someone correct me do if wrong.


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## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Mista T said:


> Playing devils advocate here...
> 
> Most contracts, including our TOS, have a Survivability clause. This means that if one portion of the contract is unenforceable or broken, then the others are still in good standing.


Yes, you are correct as to survivability - like Uber violating some section for background checks or something. However, a contract is only valid if consideration is met. If us, as drivers, don't get consideration (pay is our consideration) then Uber is in breach of contract and none of it is applicable. They can't claim any part of the contract if we don't get consideration.


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## Caixa (Jun 4, 2018)

Update to the situation

Eventually they did pay during the next direct deposit period. It was just terribly inconvenient to not have access to instant pay for a significant amount of money that was urgently needed that cost a significant amount of time of my day I could have spent acquiring elsewhere.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

It's just like your bank account. You can't withdraw the money until the money is deposited. Once payment clears you're free to take it out. 

Glad things eventually worked out for you.


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