# The Fantasy / Fallacy of Driverless Cars



## RainbowPlate (Jul 12, 2015)

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33676388

A snippet:

The global success of BBC's Top Gear is just one indication of just how much we love cars and driving. Rightly or wrongly, many of us love the thrill of speed and the sense of freedom cars give us. Being in control is an important aspect of that.

But in the driverless world we become passive and disengaged; the car is reduced to a commodity, a mere tool for mobility. Where's the fun in that? Driver surveys suggest we are at least ambivalent about the technology.

While driverless cars could offer valuable mobility to the elderly and people with varying degrees of disability, most experts believe such vehicles will be restricted to urban settings on prescribed routes only.

"Full autonomous driving, where you programme your car to drive somewhere and read the paper in the back, that's science fiction to me to be honest," concludes Accenture's Mr Gissler.​


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

RainbowPlate said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33676388
> 
> A snippet:
> 
> ...


There is only a very small percentage of us who drive cars with passion. The rest of them see it as a transportation tool and thats it.


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## Escartes (Jul 13, 2015)

Nah, this is the real future of driverless cars. The saying that whatever can be imagined will one day become reality is proving remarkably accurate.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

RainbowPlate said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33676388
> 
> A snippet:
> 
> ...


Thank you for providing a snippet.....
Too many leave us with a link to a high bandwidth sight. While driving and waiting, those are data killers.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

RainbowPlate said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33676388
> 
> A snippet:
> 
> ...


You ARE right on a number of points. Driverless cars will provide NONE of the personal enjoyment that driving does for those who do enjoy driving.

I read how youngsters today don't see the purchase of a car as soon as they can get a license as important as having a smartphone. Road trips for teenagers isn't as important these days. They feel more connected through social media. Driving for hours to a new place to camp or swim doesn't rate. Being "in the know " through social media where the latest coolest pop-up club is (that lasts 6 months) is a more valuable quest to youngsters today.

That's why, as those of us who are 35 or older shuffle off this mortal coil, driverless cars will become more important for those riding along, not raising their heads for 1 second to watch the world go by.


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## Escartes (Jul 13, 2015)

A sign of the times. BMW is rumored to be ending it production of manual cars. The reason the take up rate has dropped to less than 7%.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

Escartes said:


> A sign of the times. BMW is rumored to be ending it production of manual cars. The reason the take up rate has dropped to less than 7%.


I haven't bought a new car with a manual tx in 20 years. 
I have bought fun cars with a manual used in a basket to rebuild.

I don't drive a manual in traffic any more.


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## Escartes (Jul 13, 2015)

I have a 10 year old BMW MX5 which I love to drive, but a pain in the proverbial in traffic. Many years ago I caught a cab in Singapore and was surprised to see the driver had one hand missing from the elbow down AND he was driving a manual. 

To change gears he would reach across and change gears with his good hand while holding the steering wheel with one of his knees. Bizarre and amazing at the same time.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Escartes said:


> A sign of the times. BMW is rumored to be ending it production of manual cars. The reason the take up rate has dropped to less than 7%.


^^^
Along with their legendary non-turbo straight six. 
No more 1 or 2 series with that engine, just the 3 series with that buzzy little turbo.
And available with those stupid little paddle shifters. 
WHAT!!!

Hardly "The Ultimate Driving Machine" any more.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

RockinEZ said:


> I haven't bought a new car with a manual tx in 20 years.
> I have bought fun cars with a manual used in a basket to rebuild.
> 
> I don't drive a manual in traffic any more.


I I remember the first Cars I drove. They didn't have power steering or air-conditioning to speak of.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Along with their legendary non-turbo straight six.
> No more 1 or 2 series with that engine, just the 3 series with that buzzy little turbo.
> And available with those stupid little paddle shifters.
> ...


The legendary BMW 635CSi. For many years it satisfied my motoring fantasy


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I I remember the first Cars I drove. They didn't have power steering or air-conditioning to speak of.


My first bulldozer (I was 14 when my dad bought it) had a hole for a hand cranker that started a small gasoline engine (pony motor) that started the diesel motor after you pulled a lever.

That was one fun toy!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

observer said:


> My first bulldozer (I was 14 when my dad bought it) had a hole for a hand cranker that started a small gasoline engine (pony motor) that started the diesel motor after you pulled a lever.
> 
> That was one fun toy!


My Mother-in-law has a hand cranked Fiat tractor on the family farm. My 12yr old Nephew can plow perfectly straight rows, and my 8yr old daughter follows with perfectly spaced seedlings - makes me a very proud Dad.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> The legendary BMW 635CSi. For many years it satisfied my motoring fantasy
> 
> View attachment 10530


^^^
Yeah, and you know what? 
You can still find them in very respectable shape, not run into the ground for really reasonable prices, but over the last five or six years they've really started to go up in price for really good ones. 
Last time I was in L.A. there was one for sale from a private party with only 55K. 
Spectacular looking car... white with red leather. 
Only ten grand. 
Friend of mine bought it.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

My first car was a 55 or 58 Mercedes, Hydrak vacuum clutch but it just wouldn't move.
Transmission was flawless... for what it was. 
Somebody had put in a big trunk unit AC that believe it or not worked pretty well. 
Silver with red leather, not MB Tex and 13 inch rims. lol 
Surprised that youtube had this.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> My first car was a 55 or 58 Mercedes, Hydrak vacuum clutch but it just wouldn't move.
> Transmission was flawless... for what it was.
> Somebody had put in a big trunk unit AC that believe it or not worked pretty well.
> Silver with red leather, not MB Tex and 13 inch rims. lol
> Surprised that youtube had this.


You had a little more class! Me I needed something far more practical in the pursuit of teenage adventure and fun

A 1975 2litre Ford MKI Escort Panel Van (1978 version shown)

Just the ticket for my gig managing and mixing for a band.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> My Mother-in-law has a hand cranked Fiat tractor on the family farm. My 12yr old Nephew can plow perfectly straight rows, and my 8yr old daughter follows with perfectly spaced seedlings - makes me a very proud Dad.


Nice, most kids will never know where their food comes from or the amount of time and work it takes to produce. Which is probably why so much food is wasted and thrown away.

There is something about workijg the land that brings me the satisfaction of a good hard days' work done.
Farming is a great stress reliever. I love going back to the ranch.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

does Driverless Car spot the nail in the road to avoid getting a flat tire?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> does Driverless Car spot the nail in the road to avoid getting a flat tire?


They'll possibly be run flat or airless tyres by then.

I don't think the average human can spot a nail on the road at 35mph. Maybe the Robot's sonar sensors may pick up the nail as a foreign object to be avoided.

From what I understand all Robot cars will be fitted with the sonar capability to work out what an object is if faced with a split-second decision of choosing a soft-flesh or motor car impact if a pedestrian walks out in the traffic


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## Ubermon (Aug 19, 2014)

It doesn't have to be perfect.. just better than a human driver.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Ubermon said:


> It doesn't have to be perfect.. just better than a human driver.


I run a Black service here in Sydney, one of my regular accounts are the visiting Ministers from another State. Both the Treasurer and Transport Minister told me how Google have visited ALL the State Transport Ministers around Australia and gave them a rundown on their plans.

Google convinced all Ministers of the merit of Driverless cars, and also made clear the legislative changes needed to aid development progress.

Your simple description that Driverless cars just need to be better than human drivers is close to what has been promised to Governments around the world- they will be much much safer than humans on the road, along with providing Government agencies extraordinary new powers of data and surveillance collection that BIG BROTHER could only dream of.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I run a Black service here in Sydney, one of my regular accounts are the visiting Ministers from another State. Both the Treasurer and Transport Minister told me how Google have visited ALL the State Transport Ministers around Australia and gave them a rundown on their plans.
> 
> Google convinced all Ministers of the merit of Driverless cars, and also made clear the legislative changes needed to aid development progress.
> 
> Your simple description that Driverless cars just need to be better than human drivers is close to what has been promised to Governments around the world- they will be much much safer than humans on the road, along with providing Government agencies extraordinary new powers of data and surveillance collection that BIG BROTHER could only dream of.


legislative changes?
surveillance collection?

No more humans driving, keep dreaming, there we be an uprising, you mark my words..


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> legislative changes?
> surveillance collection?
> 
> No more humans driving, keep dreaming, there we be an uprising, you mark my words..


Here is an article outlining Nevadas legislative changes to allow driverless cars. It is just one state of many in the US. Other countries are passing
Laws to allow driverless cars. It's in the news wake up.

http://techland.time.com/2012/05/08/googles-driverless-cars-now-officially-licensed-in-nevada/

As a Private Citizen you are encouraged to report any known felon to the Police. There are even bountys and rewards to be had. This will be the major motivation for Robot Car operators to utilise their latent identification capabilities to report recorded illegal behaviour. A VERY lucrative new income stream.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> legislative changes?
> surveillance collection?
> 
> No more humans driving, keep dreaming, there we be an uprising, you mark my words..


Human driven vehicles will be always allowed, but put a foot wrong in front of a robot car who is recording your behaviour and you'll soon find a citation sent to your address.


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## Ghostwren (Jul 1, 2015)

How do they propose they protect this massive investment in driverless cars? Arm them I suppose?


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## Ghostwren (Jul 1, 2015)

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30290540


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Ghostwren said:


> How do they propose they protect this massive investment in driverless cars? Arm them I suppose?


^^^
Let the "partners" buy them and let them take the risk.


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## Ghostwren (Jul 1, 2015)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Let the "partners" buy them and let them take the risk.


well, that would be true to form


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Ghostwren said:


> How do they propose they protect this massive investment in driverless cars? Arm them I suppose?


The identification and recording abilities of theses Robots will be truly scary. If a person gets into a driverless car then begins vandalise it, it will be recorded. If liquids or gases are released in the cabin, sensors will pick those up and flag the controller.

I don't see UBER actually owning driverless cars, but providing fleet operators (displaced Taxi plate owners) being the remote operators. Uber owns very little nowaday, I don't think that will change much. A $20 p/he gaureentee would pay off a 150k investment pretty quick.

Ex cab plate owners would be forking out heaps less than Taxi industry investment. But signing up with Uber would be the biggest risk (if they are still around).


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## sss (Jul 12, 2015)

Uber gets $25000 cars for free at the moment. They will have to pay for both the vehicle and the technology for driverless cars. It will never happen.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

sss said:


> Uber gets $25000 cars for free at the moment. They will have to pay for both the vehicle and the technology for driverless cars. It will never happen.


For free? Not really, they pay driver 80% of fare. They would keep 100% of fare.

Having extra drivers doesn't cost Uber anything right now, but
Once they have driverless cars, and they have to keep those cars busy, they will only have as many as they need. Pax may have to wait a little.

Once they have driverless cars they will raise fares

Instead of screwing drivers, Uber will begin screwing pax.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

so many awful uberX drivers driving around out there right now, would some of these be considered driverless cars?


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## sss (Jul 12, 2015)

Why would people even want Uber with driverless cars ? They can take their own driverless car to work and it will park itself somewhere 10 miles away after dropping them off. Cheaper than taking Uber every day for sure.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

sss said:


> Why would people even want Uber with driverless cars ? They can take their own driverless car to work and it will park itself somewhere 10 miles away after dropping them off. Cheaper than taking Uber every day for sure.


80% of me thinks this driverless car talk is just bluff chatter


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> 80% of me thinks this driverless car talk is just bluff chatter


http://www.forbes.com/sites/chunkam...social&utm_channel=Technology&linkId=16468373


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

observer said:


> For free? Not really, they pay driver 80% of fare. They would keep 100% of fare.
> 
> Having extra drivers doesn't cost Uber anything right now, but
> Once they have driverless cars, and they have to keep those cars busy, they will only have as many as they need. Pax may have to wait a little.
> ...


Boy, you really don't understand your owner operator status do you?
100% of the fare?
Dream on.
My taxi costs about $70 per day to operate and I own it!
At best I get 50% of the fare, and thats on a good day.
Ubernomics On.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Boy, you really don't understand your owner operator status do you?
> 100% of the fare?
> Dream on.
> My taxi costs about $70 per day to operate and I own it!
> ...


If Uber owned driverless cars, UBER keeps 100% of the FARE.

The fare and the earnings are two completely different things.

Once Uber has its own vehicles it will manipulate the cost of fares to its benefit, cherry pick the best runs and cherry pick the best passengers.


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