# TLC ticket in JFK ENTRAPMENT



## Booh (Sep 20, 2016)

Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter. 

This is clearly an entrapment. 

What kind of partner is that? 

I wanted to know if someone has the same situation and advice me what to do. I am definitely fight it in court.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Since this happened at Idlewild, you might want to post this on the New York City Boards. Perhaps there are drivers there who have had similar experience.

I have seen similar here in the suburbs where someone pushed his way into a city taxi, the driver tried to tell him that he could not take him, the police saw the person in the cab and issued a summons. The results fighting it have been mixed. I do not know what a traffic/TLC lawyer might cost in New York, but, again, if you post this on the New York Boards, perhaps someone who knows more about this might be able to direct you to a lawyer who specialises in TLC cases. 

Your TLC is much larger than our Department of For Hire Vehicles (formerly known as the Taxicab Commission). We do have one or two lawyers here who specialise in cases before those agencies. Thus, I would suspect that there might be more than one or two in New York who specialise in those cases.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Booh said:


> Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage.


Your trunk can be opened from the outside with no key or remote? What kind of vehicle are you using for driving?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Some vehicles do have a trunk latch that works if the key is in the ignition. Ford Fusions have this feature. If the key is not in the ignition, you can not use the latch on the trunk. You can zap it or use the button in the car, though.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Some vehicles do have a trunk latch that works if the key is in the ignition. Ford Fusions have this feature. If the key is not in the ignition, you can not use the latch on the trunk. You can zap it or use the button in the car, though.


Ok, I was just curious how some stranger can just open his trunk and put their luggage in without permission. If anybody ever opened any of my doors or cargo door without my permission my 1st thought would be carjacking.


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## cubert (Feb 13, 2016)

Wow...that sucks...buy a dash cam that records voice too, I think you could beat that if you telling the truth


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## A Morgan (Apr 4, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Your trunk can be opened from the outside with no key or remote? What kind of vehicle are you using for driving?


My rear hatch and doors unlock when you put the car in park. I had a drunk pax open the hatch and climb in the cargo area when I told his group of 6 that they had too many for x. 6 drunk pax and 1 pissed driver kicking them to the curb. Uber on!


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## Red (Nov 8, 2014)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


Bad news: TLC is a NYC administration racket gang with a kangaroo court. You have ZERO chances there.
Good news: Unless you are TLC license/plates holder they have ZERO power over you. Just don't get caught again or you'll have your car impounded.
And take your damn "uber signage" off for Christ's (Allah, Buddha, Cthulhu etc) sake. The less uberlike you look the less trouble you'll get into.

P. S. NEVER try to help anyone after dropping off at the airports. Just hightail it outta there.


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## Red (Nov 8, 2014)

cubert said:


> Wow...that sucks...buy a dash cam that records voice too, I think you could beat that if you telling the truth


Have you been to TLC court yet, young padawan?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

You never received any cash nor did you agree to give him a ride so you'll be fine. They are just being dbags. Hopefully they have audio recording and that they won't lie about what happened.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Not a lawyer, but isn't showing the rate intent?


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## WBdriving (Jul 28, 2016)

njn said:


> Not a lawyer, but isn't showing the rate intent?


I would think so.

When ever I'm asked the cost of a trip I always tell them it should show them in their rider app and it wont show me in my driver app until after the ride is completed and Uber has finished processing it which sometimes takes a few hours.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Red said:


> Have you been to TLC court yet?


Do you have lawyers up there who specialise in TNC cases?

D.C. Taxicab Commission Panel on Adjudication hearings used to be Kangaroo Courts, but, if you had one of the then two lawyers who did these cases, you actually did have a chance. It was slim, but you did have one. There were one or two other lawyers who occasionally practiced before the Taxicab Commission who were quite successful, but they were picky about what they would take and they were expensive.

There was a brief time when Panel on Adjudication hearings actually were fair. It was toward the end of one Chairman's tenure and under several interim Chairs (in fact, the referenced Chair used to run the taxicabs in Newark). After the referenced period, it went back to being a Kangaroo Court. Finally, the D.C. Government transferred all hearings city-wide to the Office of Administrative Hearings, where you go before an Administrative Law Judge. Formerly, some agencies used Hearing Examiners (who were less qualified) or Panels (such as the DCTC).

Now it is the Department of For Hire Vehicles and hearings are still held in front of the OAH. Depending on which judge you get, you may or may not have chance. If you hire one of the lawyers who specialises in these cases, usually, you can at least get the fine busted down, the revocation busted down to a suspension or the suspension period shortened/changed to a fine.


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## UberJoe427 (Aug 30, 2016)

I did a drop off in JFK, same thing but since i was already in drive the door was already locked.He did just try to get in the car .I cracked the window and PAX asked me to drive him to Hoboken NJ , I said no and drove off. As i was driving off he said i'll make it worth your while,i just kept going.


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## Tenzo (Jan 25, 2016)

Why the hell are you guys talking to strangers at the airport?

Ive seen 4 threads that start with a stranger asking them questions at the airport.


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## Red (Nov 8, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Do you have lawyers up there who specialise in TNC cases?
> 
> D.C. Taxicab Commission Panel on Adjudication hearings used to be Kangaroo Courts, but, if you had one of the then two lawyers who did these cases, you actually did have a chance. It was slim, but you did have one. There were one or two other lawyers who occasionally practiced before the Taxicab Commission who were quite successful, but they were picky about what they would take and they were expensive.
> 
> ...


Yes, they usually hang out on the "court"rooms floor. Might be worth it to consult with one of them. Last time I did he told me that it's pointless because I approached him by his friend's referral. Suggested not to waste the money. In this case they will probably offer a bargain plea of a $1000 or so.


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

Jesus.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

That sucks. A good reminder that at JFK and other restricted airports, the only response to such a question is "I don't do pick ups here, call a cab" and to drive off.


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## Mean_Judge (Jan 14, 2015)

Go to court, no need laywer. Tell Passenger put baggage in the trunk without permission. No evidence that you collect or admit a fare. 
Case dismissed.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Mean_Judge said:


> Go to court, no need laywer. Tell Passenger put baggage in the trunk without permission. No evidence that you collect or admit a fare. Case dismissed.


Do not be so sure about that. These guys with experience in New York City have stated that it is a Kangaroo Court. We have had similar, here. What you would consider an open-and-shut case that favours the driver comes out against the driver. Here, far too often, it is not simply "guilty until proved innocent), it is "guilty _*even*_ _*when*_ proved innocent".


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## Mean_Judge (Jan 14, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Do not be so sure about that. These guys with experience in New York City have stated that it is a Kangaroo Court. We have had similar, here. What you would consider an open-and-shut case that favours the driver comes out against the driver. Here, far too often, it is not simply "guilty until proved innocent), it is "guilty _*even*_ _*when*_ proved innocent".


NY probably whole diff story, but there is always appeal court,. I think most of tickets counts on victim never make it to court and just gave up. People so busy in NY they rather pay 200$ than dealing with court.

I am very interested in updates in this case and hope OP will post follow up


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


You made one giant mistake that got you nailed,

_*Never give assistance to anyone, or interact with anyone at any patrolled or regulated area when you are not actively on a trip to pick THEM up.*_

You got hit with a classic enforcement technique that the taxi rule enforcement groups have used for decades. They had you the second you looked up the rate for him. *Asking a rate is the taxi code for "tell me how much it is and i might get in" in taxi lingo*. Once you tell them a rate, you have fallen for the trap.

The enforcement/entrapment rules were written for regulating taxis. If he was a real Uber customer he would have hit the app already and he would know the rate, if he was a prospective first time customer, they need to download the app first. If they are just curious... its a bad place and time to explain it.

*What you should have done is said any of these, and immediately departed.*

"I'm sorry sir I can not take you anywhere, or even stick around to answer that, have a great day"

"you Need to download the app and honestly I personally can't take you anyway due to permitting issues" 
"I'm sorry i'm not an uber driver"

*If you want style points...*

"I'm too afraid of code enforcement to even answer your question!"

"Hey look man, I know your code enforcement or whatever, i'm just setting my GPS for somewhere i can work, i'll scram and i have no intention of picking anyone up."

*Just for fun... (remember if your not on a trip no one can complain about absurd behavior or rate you)*

"Mommy told me not to talk to strangers" and drive off.

"This is my mom's car"

"I'm not really an Uber driver"

I can't take you this is my "dogs" car. He doesn't like it when i bring it back smelling like strange people

*Funny... but bad ideas (Can blow up in your face)*

"STRANGER DANGER!" (best shouted at the top of your lungs)

"I'm too drunk to uber right now"

"My driver's license is suspended"

About your complaint about Uber not protecting you...

Legally when you are not on a trip you are off duty, you are a guy in a car off the job. Insurance does not cover you, the promise to cover your tickets is not in effect. And you are just plain SOL.

I know this is not much consolation but if it makes you feel any better cab drivers have fallen for these same exact tricks since the beginning of time.


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## CrazyT (Jul 2, 2016)

My standard answer when anyone asks about a rate is "uber doesn't show us that in the driver app. You'll need to open the rider app to get that information."

I actually just used that this morning. Had a guy walk up to the car while I'm at a stop sign asking if he could just catch me now. Sorry you have to request through the app. I did hand the guy a card through the cracked window, and when I pulled around the corner to Starbucks to pick up my rider a cop followed me into the lot. It was ok though. Cop asked what the guy wanted, commented that I could have had a decent fare. I told him we both know that's illegal, he has to request through the app but I did give him a code to save $20 when he downloads the app. 

Fortunately in this case my rider was delayed. App told her I was 15 minutes out so she requested before her order was in. I was there just as she was ordering. I was in a good mood as I waited, and used my app to order my coffee. By the time it was done, she was ready. She did ask what the cop was doing "bothering" me, but hey he's just making sure we're not picking up street hails.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Meanwhile at EWR I went inside the terminal and 2 different people approached me at baggage claim asking if I wanted a taxi. 
I should try to scam them next time. I'd record a video of everything, then take the ride to a police station near my destination, then not pay


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> Meanwhile at EWR I went inside the terminal and 2 different people approached me at baggage claim asking if I wanted a taxi.
> I should try to scam them next time. I'd record a video of everything, then take the ride to a police station near my destination, then not pay


Funny thing is if you did that you would get arrested at the police station......cuz cabs can ask if you need a ride regardless even if at an airport.......called a street hail


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> Funny thing is if you did that you would get arrested at the police station......cuz cabs can ask if you need a ride regardless even if at an airport.......called a street hail


 almost every airport in the world has a rule that cab drivers are not allowed to solicit fares


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Wrong


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

garyk said:


> almost every airport in the world has a rule that cab drivers are not allowed to solicit fares


LOL!!!!

you obviously have not traveled much! Most airports in 2nd and 3rd world airports have an eager group of cabbies aggressively approaching everybody coming out of the gate in search of a fare. It just goes to show how regulated/controlled this country has become. Land of the Free!


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

I said there was a rule... Said nothing about enforcement


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## Krisnjennie (Apr 6, 2017)

I got a similar case, although i did not know i was breaking the law so i offered $40 for a ride for this poor old man who had to go from jfk to ewr. (I knew about no soliciting in general, but not that i couldnt offer a ride for a fee the way a coworker asks me for a ride home for an x amount). I was a nj driver dropping an uber pax and about to leave when he knocked on my window. I really would like to know how it went for the op



Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


Mind sharing how it went down for u?



Red said:


> Good news: Unless you are TLC license/plates holder they have ZERO power over you.


How sure are you about not affecting non-tlc drivers? I have a nj license and the one lawyer i spoke to (but cant trust) told me that i still had to pay the fine up to $2000 or they could take away even my nj drivers license.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

shiftydrake said:


> Funny thing is if you did that you would get arrested at the police station......cuz cabs can ask if you need a ride regardless even if at an airport.......called a street hail


Not if it's a ********* doing an illegal street hail


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Umm I guess your talking about Uber being an illegal cab well yeah I agreed with you there but trust me I can ask at StL airport and not get a ticket cuz I drive a legit taxi cab


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

shiftydrake said:


> Umm I guess your talking about Uber being an illegal cab well yeah I agreed with you there but trust me I can ask at StL airport and not get a ticket cuz I drive a legit taxi cab


In orlando the legit companies can get a ticket for picking up at the wrong part of the airport, or even the right part of the airport if they don't have a slip


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


How did he open your trunk? I love how people get busted trying to get cash rides out the airport and lie about it.


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


Lock all doors and trunks at all times. Only takk through a small slit in the window. Do not help people asking for a fare, advice them to go onto app.



UberJoe427 said:


> I did a drop off in JFK, same thing but since i was already in drive the door was already locked.He did just try to get in the car .I cracked the window and PAX asked me to drive him to Hoboken NJ , I said no and drove off. As i was driving off he said i'll make it worth your while,i just kept going.


You saved your a$$ a ton of money!


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> Wrong


Please allow me to rephrase that to almost every airport in a first world nation. You go to the third world you're definitely going to have a thousand cabbies contesting for your business


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## NYCFunDriver (Dec 31, 2016)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


TLC testers. That really, really sucks happening to you. The fact of the matter is you didn't agree on anything. I don't know how far you live out of NYC, but you may want to consider getting the license.


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## Silv214 (Aug 24, 2017)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


Hi 
do u know what will apend if you refuse to pay this ticket ?


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## Robert finnly (Jul 1, 2017)

2k ticket omg that is insane


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## Jimmy66 (Nov 16, 2017)

Hey guys just got a similar ticket and would like to know if anyone fought these tickets and what the results were, because i do want to fight it.

Not so interested in paying a reduced fine of 750 from what i've heard, what r ur opinions and similar experiences?

Max fine 2000$, with a court date, same story undercover approached me and asking me to drop off at Newark airport. till he heard a number. and gave ticket.

Thanks


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

Get a lawyer and pointing to the judge the giving a price is not saying yes to a ride. And also point out that getting it priced is not equal soliciting because all you're doing is answering a question. Until you say yes and let them in your car you are not guilty.


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## Jimmy66 (Nov 16, 2017)

garyk said:


> Get a lawyer and pointing to the judge the giving a price is not saying yes to a ride. And also point out that getting it priced is not equal soliciting because all you're doing is answering a question. Until you say yes and let them in your car you are not guilty.


How successful was that defense in court? have u heard of similar cases?

Thanks


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's entrapment, how did he open your trunk? There is no way for a passenger to open my trunk, it has to be opened by a lever near my seat.

Fight it in court.


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## Ashir (Dec 20, 2017)

Picking up from laguardia got tlc ticket. How much it will be? Anyone not paid any consequence base on experience plz share.

Also what affect on nj no plates?
What if change no plate and car?


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


It is not clearly entrapment. Entrapment would be "if I give you $40 will you take me to timesquare".

You may or may not be able to launch an entrapment defense, entrapment laws vary by state.

Unfortunately, someone asked you "how much to Times square" if you communicate a price in any way, it is tantamount to an "offer". Showing a price on your phone without ALSO EXPLICITLY STATING THAT YOU WILL NOT PICK UP can be seen as an offer.

Entrapment centers around "who made the offer" - if a cop makes an offer, it's generally entrapment. If you make the offer, it isn't.

In your case as you stated, the cop did not make an offer - he inquired as to a price. You communicated a price, which could be seen as an offer.

Good luck. I do suggest fighting it, there's some ambiguity here that you have to rely on and maybe able to keep the fine to a reasonable amount. But remember that police are officers of the state, and their testimony is considered prima facie evidence (I.e. The court takes them at their word).

As a side note you made a big mistake in discussing anything that a potential passenger could easilly find using their own app - why are they asking you, and how would you know unless you were prepared to take a cash ride?

Per uber/lyft terms of service you need to refer people to their own app and leave it at that.



Mean_Judge said:


> Go to court, no need laywer. Tell Passenger put baggage in the trunk without permission. No evidence that you collect or admit a fare.
> Case dismissed.


Too bad it won't be that easy. All the police have to show is an "offer" for carriage (depending on rules of evidence and elements of a crime that vary state to state).



garyk said:


> Get a lawyer and pointing to the judge the giving a price is not saying yes to a ride. And also point out that getting it priced is not equal soliciting because all you're doing is answering a question. Until you say yes and let them in your car you are not guilty.


No, the elements of a crime are recited in the statute (and further defined by case law), you can't say that your defense has merit - the law does not work on what YOU think is reasonable, it works on what is written in law and what the courts have found as precedent.

If he element of the statute is simply "an offer" and state law or case law indicates that "quoting a price is considered an offer" then that's it. Done. You can't make blanket statements like you did as they may or may not be valid in context of a particular state law.


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## UberSucker (May 17, 2017)

I'm glad the police in this country are focusing on the right things...lol


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

UberSucker said:


> I'm glad the police in this country are focusing on the right things...lol


No shit!

Hey no problem - don't worry about the drug traffickers, the serial killers, the rapists, the gang warfare, the fraud, embezzlement, the drunk drivers, the drug runners, the human traffickers, the meth labs, the pill mills, the psychopaths, blah blah blah blah (ya'll get the drill, right ya'll?) lolololololol wtf am I talking about


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## VietnamDriverinUSA (Oct 9, 2017)

UberSucker said:


> I'm glad the police in this country are focusing on the right things...lol


Easy money, easy target, easy numbers on the book for promotions. 
In the other hand, if they target the more difficulty groups like drug/gangs/robbery they may get killed on the job.


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## UberSucker (May 17, 2017)

VietnamDriverinUSA said:


> Easy money, easy target, easy numbers on the book for promotions.
> In the other hand, if they target the more difficulty groups like drug/gangs/robbery they may get killed on the job.


No shit they might get killed on the job. That's why they have guns, batons and body armor. I think it's absolutely ****ing ridiculous that any time or money is spent on something like this. Let's entrap some poor fool who is scraping pennies trying to make a living.


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## JackieInNJ (Apr 6, 2018)

My fiance had a situation and would love to hear some feedback/advice... He dropped off someone at JFK after dropping off the person a male approached the vehicle knocked on his window (My fiance is new to Uber never done this before he worked for a plumbing company prior to this) when he opened his window the guys said can you give me a ride to Elizabeth Ill give you $80 that's all I have so my fiance honestly not knowing someone like this is illegal said sure why not hop in (Since we live in NJ and live about 10 mins from Elizabeth he was on his way back home anyway) when he got out of his car and opened the trunk the officer came over and basically long story short gave him a ticket for picking up a passenger without a TLC license and issued one to me because the car is registered in my name. Can they actually do this? Is it illegal for you to give a stranger a ride when they offer you compensation for the costs it would take you to get back to NJ (Obviously it doesn't cost $80 but the guy offered it my fiance didn't charge him cant the offer be seen as a donation for the kind act of giving him a ride?) Thanks in advance for the input. I can guarantee you this will never happen again but I do want to go to court and fight it I think its unjust.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

If they went as far as using entrapment to give you a ticket, they must have something under their sleeves to prove it, maybe a loophole on the methodology to accuse a person which can be exploited leaving both parties unharmed should you be found innocent.

Is the agreement over and done at the point money exchanges hands or at the point they supposed you agreed and jumped in? because that would extremely idiotic, any cop would just drop luggage on peoples back seats or open trunks and run laughing "gotcha!".


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Accepting cash for ride is a bad idea anywhere.

You might have luck pleading the ticket down to 750 from 1500 at the kangaroo court.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

JackieInNJ said:


> My fiance had a situation and would love to hear some feedback/advice... He dropped off someone at JFK after dropping off the person a male approached the vehicle knocked on his window (My fiance is new to Uber never done this before he worked for a plumbing company prior to this) when he opened his window the guys said can you give me a ride to Elizabeth Ill give you $80 that's all I have so my fiance honestly not knowing someone like this is illegal said sure why not hop in (Since we live in NJ and live about 10 mins from Elizabeth he was on his way back home anyway) when he got out of his car and opened the trunk the officer came over and basically long story short gave him a ticket for picking up a passenger without a TLC license and issued one to me because the car is registered in my name. Can they actually do this? Is it illegal for you to give a stranger a ride when they offer you compensation for the costs it would take you to get back to NJ (Obviously it doesn't cost $80 but the guy offered it my fiance didn't charge him cant the offer be seen as a donation for the kind act of giving him a ride?) Thanks in advance for the input. I can guarantee you this will never happen again but I do want to go to court and fight it I think its unjust.


Hopefully the costs wasnt too high, you'll have to pay it. It aint a donation, he hired your fiancee for transportation services without proper license.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

JackieInNJ said:


> my fiance honestly not knowing someone like this is illegal
> 
> Is it illegal for you to give a stranger a ride when they offer you compensation
> 
> I think its unjust.


It's illegal in nearly every jurisdiction. When I first started in this business 18 years ago I received a $500 ticket in the mail from the airport (Phoenix Sky Harbor) for picking up at the airport. Even though I was registered with the state as a livery vehicle and had all the proper licensing and commercial insurance I didn't have the airport credentials. A camera took a picture of my license plate when I was picking up a prearranged pax and mailed the ticket to the registered owner, which was of course myself. I was going to fight it in court, but after speaking with a few people I decided to pay it because the law is very specific about airport livery services.

It's not unjust, it's the law. And ignorance of the law is no excuse.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> You never received any cash nor did you agree to give him a ride so you'll be fine. They are just being dbags. Hopefully they have audio recording and that they won't lie about what happened.


BWAHAHAHAHA!

You're profile says you're from NO (a city on my bucket list to visit!). You've never driven taxi, limo, or rideshare in NYC as a NYC or NJ driver, though, I'm betting... amiright?


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## YouEvenLyftBruh (Feb 10, 2018)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


This is why folks need to spend a good week reading these forums, and not just the fun posts.

I see the vets posting this rule ALL THE TIME: *KEEP YOUR DOORS LOCKED!*

And while they didn't know about this, following this rule would have kept you out of trouble. Thanks for the heads up and sorry about that ticket, it's clearly entrapment. What happened was, the police weren't making the quota they thought they would, because drivers were wise to the scam, so they decided to get pushy and make their own crime to stop. 

Also another rule I see you probably broke, *any Dashcam footage!? No? You need to get a dashcam. *You mau not have had full video, but you would at least have the audio, and could show that to the judge, now it's going to be your word against the police, guess who wins?


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

BTW, NYC TLC enforcement are not police, do not carry weapons and are scared to go to Bronx where the gypsy cabs run wild. In addition there are no judges to contest tickets. NYC uses tribunals with with hearing officers.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

UberSucker said:


> I'm glad the police in this country are focusing on the right things...lol


They heard that Uber drivers are the only class in America to NOT regularly carry firearms and decided to play it safe


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## Msvanillabeaan (May 7, 2018)

Oscar Levant said:


> Yes, it's entrapment, how did he open your trunk? There is no way for a passenger to open my trunk, it has to be opened by a lever near my seat.
> 
> Fight it in court.


I'm Westchester uber driver i rented a car to do uber with i picked up passenger from Westchester area to take to lga i dropped her off and pulled off to get back to Westchester but as i was pulling off some woman knocked on my window i thought it was the girl i dropped off at first matter left something on the car so i stopped it wasn't her. The lady asked me to take her to jfk for$40 sure looked like she was in a hurry and desperate my dumb self agreed and i opened my trunk for her luggage then a man cake showed badge i got 2 Summons one for me the other for owner of the car i was driving max amount $2000 on both. (The lady didn't even get into the car or hee luggage..does that matter?)They said a lawyer will be there in the OATH hearing but i heard they aren't as good as a private lawyer. My question is the owner of the car will he need a lawyer too What will happen to his car? What is a good lawyer to have for this situation? If i get my own lawyer and they decide to drag this out do i need to be here for it? If im offered a settlement amount do i take it? Will the settlement be good for the owner too? 
Please someone respond im seriously getting anxiety ive never been in anything like this before ive never even been to court and i have a clean license..thanks in advance

I'm Westchester uber driver i rented a car to do uber with i picked up passenger from Westchester area to take to lga i dropped her off and pulled off to get back to Westchester but as i was pulling off some woman knocked on my window i thought it was the girl i dropped off at first matter left something on the car so i stopped it wasn't her. The lady asked me to take her to jfk for$40 sure looked like she was in a hurry and desperate my dumb self agreed and i opened my trunk for her luggage then a man cake showed badge i got 2 Summons one for me the other for owner of the car i was driving max amount $2000 on both. (The lady didn't even get into the car or hee luggage..does that matter?)They said a lawyer will be there in the OATH hearing but i heard they aren't as good as a private lawyer. My question is the owner of the car will he need a lawyer too What will happen to his car? What is a good lawyer to have for this situation? If i get my own lawyer and they decide to drag this out do i need to be here for it? If im offered a settlement amount do i take it? Will the settlement be good for the owner too? 
Please someone respond im seriously getting anxiety ive never been in anything like this before ive never even been to court and i have a clean license..thanks in advance


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

Sorry....don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.


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## drive4lyft69 (Jan 3, 2018)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Your trunk can be opened from the outside with no key or remote? What kind of vehicle are you using for driving?


 My trunk can be opened if my car is unlocked.2013 Escape



uberdriverfornow said:


> You never received any cash nor did you agree to give him a ride so you'll be fine. They are just being dbags. Hopefully they have audio recording and that they won't lie about what happened.


Exactly!! All you did was answer a question. Seems you would have to agree to take him before they could ticket you. Hopefully they were wearing wires that can prove what was said.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

drive4lyft69 said:


> My trunk can be opened if my car is unlocked.2013 Escape.


Being in the fare for hire business then I would either disengage that function or learn to always keep my doors locked when I'm idling and waiting on a pax.


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## drive4lyft69 (Jan 3, 2018)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Being in the fare for hire business then I would either disengage that function or learn to always keep my doors locked when I'm idling and waiting on a pax.


I never unlock unless loading/unloading. If my car is idling, the doors and trunk are locked.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Msvanillabeaan said:


> I'm Westchester uber driver i rented a car to do uber with i picked up passenger from Westchester area to take to lga i dropped her off and pulled off to get back to Westchester but as i was pulling off some woman knocked on my window i thought it was the girl i dropped off at first matter left something on the car so i stopped it wasn't her. The lady asked me to take her to jfk for$40 sure looked like she was in a hurry and desperate my dumb self agreed and i opened my trunk for her luggage then a man cake showed badge i got 2 Summons one for me the other for owner of the car i was driving max amount $2000 on both. (The lady didn't even get into the car or hee luggage..does that matter?)They said a lawyer will be there in the OATH hearing but i heard they aren't as good as a private lawyer. My question is the owner of the car will he need a lawyer too What will happen to his car? What is a good lawyer to have for this situation? If i get my own lawyer and they decide to drag this out do i need to be here for it? If im offered a settlement amount do i take it? Will the settlement be good for the owner too?
> Please someone respond im seriously getting anxiety ive never been in anything like this before ive never even been to court and i have a clean license..thanks in advance
> 
> I'm Westchester uber driver i rented a car to do uber with i picked up passenger from Westchester area to take to lga i dropped her off and pulled off to get back to Westchester but as i was pulling off some woman knocked on my window i thought it was the girl i dropped off at first matter left something on the car so i stopped it wasn't her. The lady asked me to take her to jfk for$40 sure looked like she was in a hurry and desperate my dumb self agreed and i opened my trunk for her luggage then a man cake showed badge i got 2 Summons one for me the other for owner of the car i was driving max amount $2000 on both. (The lady didn't even get into the car or hee luggage..does that matter?)They said a lawyer will be there in the OATH hearing but i heard they aren't as good as a private lawyer. My question is the owner of the car will he need a lawyer too What will happen to his car? What is a good lawyer to have for this situation? If i get my own lawyer and they decide to drag this out do i need to be here for it? If im offered a settlement amount do i take it? Will the settlement be good for the owner too?
> Please someone respond im seriously getting anxiety ive never been in anything like this before ive never even been to court and i have a clean license..thanks in advance


A word to the wise, never ever under any circumstances take anyone for cash who has not ordered an Uber via the app. Whether or not your citation is entrapment it might be if you get a good lawyer and the right judge good luck


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## doubleR23 (May 7, 2018)

Jimmy66 said:


> Hey guys just got a similar ticket and would like to know if anyone fought these tickets and what the results were, because i do want to fight it.
> 
> Not so interested in paying a reduced fine of 750 from what i've heard, what r ur opinions and similar experiences?
> 
> ...


How did you make out in court


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## cfernando (Jul 9, 2019)

Red said:


> Bad news: TLC is a NYC administration racket gang with a kangaroo court. You have ZERO chances there.
> Good news: Unless you are TLC license/plates holder they have ZERO power over you. Just don't get caught again or you'll have your car impounded.
> And take your damn "uber signage" off for Christ's (Allah, Buddha, Cthulhu etc) sake. The less uberlike you look the less trouble you'll get into.
> 
> P. S. NEVER try to help anyone after dropping off at the airports. Just hightail it outta there.


Hello Sr. I had a similar bad experience at La Guardia but I'm from NJ (driver license and plate) and of course I don't have a TLC. I still don't understand... in my case I don't have to do anything? 
Thanks in advance


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## itendstonight (Feb 10, 2019)

A Morgan said:


> My rear hatch and doors unlock when you put the car in park. I had a drunk pax open the hatch and climb in the cargo area when I told his group of 6 that they had too many for x. 6 drunk pax and 1 pissed driver kicking them to the curb. Uber on!


Disable the feature! Or do what a I do, I lock my doors repeatedly throughout the day for security haha pass a bus stop with freaks, double check my doors are locked! Freaky panhandler coming to window, check locked doors and windows closed!


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

Go online checkout the Black Car News. You will see ads for TLC. Lawyers. Get one they will get the fine reduced. You are Guilty. It's obvious.

P.S. how old is the guy who referred to JFK as Idlewild?


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

I’ve had people approach my car and ask for a ride. I shut them down real quick. They got no business approaching my car. You don’t help strangers when you’re on the clock.


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## itendstonight (Feb 10, 2019)

ZenUber said:


> I've had people approach my car and ask for a ride. I shut them down real quick. They got no business approaching my car. You don't help strangers when you're on the clock.


Amen! I learned to keep doors locked and windows closed to avoid any and all contact with people outside, including beggars, panhandlers, violent criminals, mentally deranged and plain weirdos. Too bad, I love driving with windows down and getting wind but had too many nasty close calls. Not getting feces or urine or crap thrown in my face!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

cfernando said:


> Hello Sr. I had a similar bad experience at La Guardia but I'm from NJ (driver license and plate) and of course I don't have a TLC. I still don't understand... in my case I don't have to do anything?
> Thanks in advance


First off, who gave you the ticket TLC or Port Authority police? Second, whether you get a lawyer or not the result will be pretty much the same. The $1500 ticket will be offered to be settled for $750 by pleading guilty at your hearing with the "prosecutor". If you don't take the deal and plead not guilty you will go before the judge and quickly be found guilty and pay the full amount of $1500. NO ONE wins, (lawyer or not) its a kangaroo court.

If you don't pay it or show up for the hearing you better never let your car enter NY again or it will be impounded!


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Booh said:


> Hi last month I dropped off someone at JFK airport since i have my uber signage after my riders got out. A guy knocked on my window and asked me the rate to go to timesquare sheraton. So i took my phone and went to my riders app and showed him the rate. Then he went to the back trunk of my car openeded my trunk and put his luggage. I did not agree that i am taking him to the destination. When I got out to tell him that i am not agreeing that i am taking him, another guy approached me and showed his badge. Gave me a ticket for a maximum fine if $2000. I told the cops why am i getting a ticket? He said that i am not allowed to pick in ny. Inwhich i knew all along. I did not pick up anyone. In short the guy is also undercover cop. I emailed uber and showed them the ticket and as i expected. They said that they wont help me with this matter.
> 
> This is clearly an entrapment.
> 
> ...


He opened your trunk after 
you checked the rate? 
Really....... 
He opened your trunk after 
you checked the rate.. 
just pay the fine and 
quit breaking the rules. 
You are guilty dude.....


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Years ago, uber used to provide a lawyer and pay the fine if drivers got tickets or towed at EWR. These days, you're on your own.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

njn said:


> Years ago, uber used to provide a lawyer and pay the fine if drivers got tickets or towed at EWR. These days, you're on your own.


EWR is not the same as NYC.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> He opened your trunk after
> you checked the rate?
> Really.......
> He opened your trunk after
> ...


He probably was incarcerated for the major violation he committed. He hasn't been seen here since September 26th 2016, after all... :whistling:


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

If you stick with that story. The judge will fine you the max after he stops laughing.


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## Red (Nov 8, 2014)

cfernando said:


> Hello Sr. I had a similar bad experience at La Guardia but I'm from NJ (driver license and plate) and of course I don't have a TLC. I still don't understand... in my case I don't have to do anything?
> Thanks in advance


As someone pointed out there's a big difference between a TLC ticket and a Port Authority ticket.
Unless you are planning to apply for a TLC license you can ignore TLC fines. And in the future simply refuse to give them anything. They aren't cops even though they are trying hard to pretend to be. The worst they can legally do is to prevent you from leaving until the real cops arrive. 
Port Authority is a different story. If you ignore their ticket you will be at risk every time you enter any airport or NY/NJ river crossing. Your driver license and plates will be red flagged in their database which will result in impoundment of your car if they'll stop you again. 
So ignore TLC, pay PA. And don't talk to strangers at the airports ever again.


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