# RESTART: Uber responds to Desert Driver's succinct questions



## Desert Driver

After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.

Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]

*Scenario*
An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance

Questions:
1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
*Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
*The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
*Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.

Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
*Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.

Be really careful out there.
Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


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## StephenJBlue

[QUOTE="
3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
*Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.

Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
[/QUOTE]
I didn't know the number 3 portion. So they basically try to pawn it off on our insurance companies, but knowing they will most likely say no. Then cancel us. They basically don't want to pay for anything. Wow.


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## MiamiFlyer

Thanks, covers the Uber driver's medical and collision coverage with clarity that is not even touched upon in that blog entry.


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## AintWorthIt

It really is not worth the risk driving for uber.


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## Desert Driver

AintWorthIt said:


> It really is not worth the risk driving for uber.


A lot of people are reaching that very conclusion. The insurance industry has a problem on its hands that it needs to get figured out.


----------



## observer

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Sirhc Rekedeob. (Suberman, is that name acceptable?) Mr. Rekedeob is the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by [Sirhc Rekedeob], Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Rekedeob rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Rekedeob was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


"If driver has no healthcare insurance driver will pay out of pocket".

Another example of Uber passing off costs to driver. What happens when driver has no healthcare insurance or money to pay???

*Taxpayers will wind up paying the costs. Even if they have never used Uber themselves. *


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## Long time Nyc cab driver

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Sirhc Rekedeob. (Suberman, is that name acceptable?) Mr. Rekedeob is the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by [Sirhc Rekedeob], Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Rekedeob rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Rekedeob was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


EXCUSE ME !!


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## Shea F. Kenny

Why didn't you ask the question of what happens when the driver is not at fault? 

Secondly, how would my insurance company ever find out I was in an accident, AND, whilst driving for Uber?

The other driver would be liable for the harm of the customer, harm done to me, and my vehicle.

Now, of course a diligent agent might examine accident and driving records, each renewal period and ask me about this accident.

I would say, "Oh, well, the other driver was liable and had nothing to do with filing a claim with you, so why would I tell you about it?"

However, it's important that you call police and they determine fault. And in an injury case, they certainly would be called. 

And of course might wonder why the passenger was in the back seat. All I can suggest here is asking the customer to move into the front seat, and help you avoid any questions of that sort. (LOL)

So, all one has to do is obey all the traffic laws and be careful, and you only have to worry about the pea brains that can't drive and slam into you.


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## Sydney Uber

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Sirhc Rekedeob. (Suberman, is that name acceptable?) Mr. Rekedeob is the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by [Sirhc Rekedeob], Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Rekedeob rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Rekedeob was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


Excellent work DD!

Did he mention the medical coverage limits for passengers in Uber cars and other cars? Other drivers and members of the public?

Bad news how they insist on outing a Uber driver to the insurance industry when in a at fault accident. After your admission that you were Rideshare driving to your insurance company they will most likely cancel your policy with no refunds as you suggest. Then you'll be buggered finding any insurance company to cover you in the future.

Strange how UBER's own insurance solution is in ensuring that once a driver does have an at fault accident they'll probably never be able to Rideshare again.


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## Rubyson&sme

Desert Driver said:


> A lot of people are reaching that very conclusion. The insurance industry has a problem on its hands that it needs to get figured out.


Actually it seems quite apparent, that the rideshare companies need to take the lead here, to insure (sorry) that TNCs remain a viable option. The way that that can continue, as the rideshare cos. apparently hope it will, is to properly cover the totality of this process themselves. The vehicle, the driver and the public have to be completely covered through out the total process, before a rider even enters the scenario. That is the correct and prudent approach. This is an always at all times business, not just for the rider and the app co.


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## chi1cabby

Shea F. Kenny said:


> And of course might wonder why the passenger was in the back seat. All I can suggest here is asking the customer to move into the front seat, and help you avoid any questions of that sort. (LOL)


The Pax would be OKAY with sitting in front seat. But in case of a *Serious Accident*, the pax is Not going to lie that you two are just friends. He is going to say "I was a paying passenger in an UberX Car". *(LOL)*


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## UberHustla

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Sirhc Rekedeob. (Suberman, is that name acceptable?) Mr. Rekedeob is the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by [Sirhc Rekedeob], Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Rekedeob rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Rekedeob was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


Very interesting (and terrifying) stuff. Great job getting the info.

I'm just curious, outside of an accident, how would your personal insurance carrier know if you worked for Uber? And if you were by yourself in the car during an accident, aren't you better off not even mentioning Uber if there is an incident? I also am curious about what was asked above, what about not at fault?

Again, great job getting answers to questions that are a lot harder to get than they should be.


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## BostonMetro1oh2

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Sirhc Rekedeob. (Suberman, is that name acceptable?) Mr. Rekedeob is the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by [Sirhc Rekedeob], Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic a
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Rekedeob rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Rekedeob was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


Insurance companies offer livery coverage, why does everyone have to bend over backwards to accomodate uber, they are in clear voilation of many laws, they encourage drivers to commit fraud, why is this ok, why is the government not investigating this fraud? And are drivers enabling uber?


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

UberHustla said:


> Very interesting (and terrifying) stuff. Great job getting the info.
> 
> I'm just curious, outside of an accident, how would your personal insurance carrier know if you worked for Uber? And if you were by yourself in the car during an accident, aren't you better off not even mentioning Uber if there is an incident? I also am curious about what was asked above, what about not at fault?
> 
> Again, great job getting answers to questions that are a lot harder to get than they should be.


 not mentioning uber, and not reporting passengers in the car is fraud, isnt it? I guess in uber world all is fair, fraud, voilation of city/state laws ,unfair business practices


----------



## UberHustla

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> not mentioning uber, and not reporting passengers in the car is fraud, isnt it? I guess in uber world all is fair, fraud, voilation of city/state laws ,unfair business practices


How could you not report passengers in the car? Right after an accident yell at your passengers to "Run for it!!!"?

I asked how the insurance company would know besides getting into an accident. Also, if you're driving down the street alone with your phone on ready to accept fares, and you rear end somebody...Why would you get out and say "well I was Uber'ing..."


----------



## Realityshark

Every Uber driver should read this.


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

UberHustla said:


> How could you not report passengers in the car? Right after an accident yell at your passengers to "Run for it!!!"?
> 
> I asked how the insurance company would know besides getting into an accident. Also, if you're driving down the street alone with your phone on ready to accept fares, and you rear end somebody...Why would you get out and say "well I was Uber'ing..."


Its ok to lie, lying gets you out of alot trouble, its good to lie your way out of a situation


----------



## UberHustla

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Its ok to lie, lying gets you out of alot trouble, its good to lie your way out of a situation


It's never ok to lie (unless you're a Patriots fan, never admit that). I'm not saying to lie about anything. In the scenario I mentioned above, I never said to lie. I just said why would you bring up Uber to the cop or your insurance company if you didn't have to. Kind of like when you get in an accident and don't admit fault even if you knew it was your fault. why would you ever volunteer information that you don't have to?


----------



## Sydney Uber

UberHustla said:


> Very interesting (and terrifying) stuff. Great job getting the info.
> 
> I'm just curious, outside of an accident, how would your personal insurance carrier know if you worked for Uber? And if you were by yourself in the car during an accident, aren't you better off not even mentioning Uber if there is an incident? I also am curious about what was asked above, what about not at fault?
> 
> Again, great job getting answers to questions that are a lot harder to get than they should be.


Yes that is what Uber did advise drivers to begin with. Simply claim on personal insurance.

But Insurance companies have got some heavy federal laws protecting their turf. Its pretty standard when you make a claim you are asked if you had been engaged at the time of the accident or any time prior to the accident in Hire & Reward or rideshare activities. If you lie and answer NO, and are caught, then that is insurance fraud - a federal offense.

Some insurance companies are building up a data base of Rideshare cars. They are happy to take premiums off the car owners for years, but the moment a claim comes in they'll drop the bomb and hang the car owner out to dry. "Protecting the contributor pool they'll happily state.


----------



## Desert Driver

observer said:


> "If driver has no healthcare insurance driver will pay out of pocket".
> 
> Another example of Uber passing off costs to driver. What happens when driver has no healthcare insurance or money to pay???
> 
> *Taxpayers will wind up paying the costs. Even if they have never used Uber themselves. *


Correct. This is called privatizing profits and socializing costs. This is a huge component of the Wal-Mart business model, too.


----------



## Desert Driver

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> View attachment 3324
> 
> EXCUSE ME !!


Good one!


----------



## Desert Driver

Shea F. Kenny said:


> Why didn't you ask the question of what happens when the driver is not at fault?
> 
> Secondly, how would my insurance company ever find out I was in an accident, AND, whilst driving for Uber?
> 
> The other driver would be liable for the harm of the customer, harm done to me, and my vehicle.
> 
> Now, of course a diligent agent might examine accident and driving records, each renewal period and ask me about this accident.
> 
> I would say, "Oh, well, the other driver was liable and had nothing to do with filing a claim with you, so why would I tell you about it?"
> 
> However, it's important that you call police and they determine fault. And in an injury case, they certainly would be called.
> 
> And of course might wonder why the passenger was in the back seat. All I can suggest here is asking the customer to move into the front seat, and help you avoid any questions of that sort. (LOL)
> 
> So, all one has to do is obey all the traffic laws and be careful, and you only have to worry about the pea brains that can't drive and slam into you.


I respectfully ask that you post the answers to your questions after you speak with Uber.


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Insurance companies offer livery coverage, why does everyone have to bend over backwards to accomodate uber, they are in clear voilation of many laws, they encourage drivers to commit fraud, why is this ok, why is the government not investigating this fraud? And are drivers enabling uber?


Interesting point. What laws is Uber breaking? Remember, unless one is under oath in court, lying is not illegal but it is unethical.


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

Many, Here in boston, there is a city ordanance , that states only licenced hackney carriages may be used as vehicles for hire


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Many, Here in boston, there is a city ordanance , that states only licenced hackney carriages may be used as vehicles for hire


Ok, you're referring to local ordinance.


----------



## stuber

Good effort DD. So the short version is: Don't drive for UBERX because you are not going to have adequate insurance. Or, get commercial insurance and go broke driving UBERX because the fare structure is too low to compensate you for the added expense of proper insurance. Heller wrote a book about this called Catch-22. 

X doesn't work because of the insurance problem. That may or may not ever get fixed. Black doesn't really work either because there's not enough of those customers. Where does this leave us?

They need to refund to investors and start over.


----------



## observer

stuber said:


> Good effort DD. So the short version is: Don't drive for UBERX because you are not going to have adequate insurance. Or, get commercial insurance and go broke driving UBERX because the fare structure is too low to compensate you for the added expense of proper insurance. Heller wrote a book about this called Catch-22.
> 
> X doesn't work because of the insurance problem. That may or may not ever get fixed. Black doesn't really work either because there's not enough of those customers. Where does this leave us?
> 
> They need to refund to investors and start over.


*"They need to refund to investors and start over"
*
Don't worry about the investors. They'll figure out a way to have the taxpayer bail them out.


----------



## AintWorthIt

I think I'm going to go get commercial insurance and move to Nashville and drive for .73 a mile, that should work well.


----------



## lu181

Rider fee to 1.50 given to the driver we can get proper commercial insurance = driver covered, passenger covered, uber covered. sorry those who only work 2 hours a week you dont really need uber and uber doesnt really need you. uber needs full timers to get full timers rates need to be 20% higher no you wont make 90k a year but 40-60 k with full time hrs that are still flexible to how you want to work them. reality is the business model has changed no ones getting rich working a few hrs on weekends anymore.


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

Why is there no class action lawsuit ,uber is false advertising with statements like "make $1600/week ,guaranteed".


----------



## UberHustla

I think a lot of the ridiculous claims of how much you can make (like on Craigslist) are done by other drivers trying to get a referral bonus.


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

UberHustla said:


> I think a lot of the ridiculous claims of how much you can make (like on Craigslist) are done by other drivers trying to get a referral bonus.


 there is actually a bill board, that is strategicaly placed to be visible from the logan airport taxi pool in boston, that has this message on it, "drive for uber make 1600 a week guaranteed" ill post a picture soon


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> there is actually a bill board, that is strategicaly placed to be visible from the logan airport taxi pool in boston, that has this message on it, "drive for uber make 1600 a week guaranteed" ill post a picture soon


Please do. I have access to class action attorneys.


----------



## UberHustla

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> there is actually a bill board, that is strategicaly placed to be visible from the logan airport taxi pool in boston, that has this message on it, "drive for uber make 1600 a week guaranteed" ill post a picture soon


Interesting


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

Desert Driver said:


> Please do. I have access to class action attorneys.


 Here it is


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Here it is
> View attachment 3336


Excellent. Thank you.


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Here it is
> View attachment 3336


I just sent this message to Uber support...

I saw a billboard today stating that I can earn $1600 per week with Uber. I have been driving for Uber for about two months and I think I'd like to move up to the $1600 per week guaranteed plan. How do I do that?
I have attached a photo of the billboard.
Thank you very much.


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

Desert Driver said:


> I just sent this message to Uber support...
> 
> I saw a billboard today stating that I can earn $1600 per week with Uber. I have been driving for Uber for about two months and I think I'd like to move up to the $1600 per week guaranteed plan. How do I do that?
> I have attached a photo of the billboard.
> Thank you very much.


Would love to read their response


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Would love to read their response


I will most certainly be sharing anything I learn.


----------



## BostonMetro1oh2

lu181 said:


> Rider fee to 1.50 given to the driver we can get proper commercial insurance = driver covered, passenger covered, uber covered. sorry those who only work 2 hours a week you dont really need uber and uber doesnt really need you. uber needs full timers to get full timers rates need to be 20% higher no you wont make 90k a year but 40-60 k with full time hrs that are still flexible to how you want to work them. reality is the business model has changed no ones getting rich working a few hrs on weekends anymore.


Since working for uber you are self employed, at the end of the year you have to pay a lump sum of 15 % of your earnings, thats alot of fun


----------



## Simon

Soo Uber insurance is not primary? Because I thought I read somewhere on this board it was.


----------



## John_in_kc

well... uber not covering medical is in violation of no fault state PIP requirements were applicable, I assume the policy would confirm to state law where required.


----------



## Simon

I just emailed my support with a direct question is JR the primary and requested a driver procedure if an accident occurred.


----------



## stuber

lu181 said:


> Rider fee to 1.50 given to the driver we can get proper commercial insurance = driver covered, passenger covered, uber covered. sorry those who only work 2 hours a week you dont really need uber and uber doesnt really need you. uber needs full timers to get full timers rates need to be 20% higher no you wont make 90k a year but 40-60 k with full time hrs that are still flexible to how you want to work them. reality is the business model has changed no ones getting rich working a few hrs on weekends anymore.


Huh? Please edit. I may agree, but I am not sure what you're saying.

UBER doesn't have a business model that is sustainable for full-time drivers. Nor do they want that. From what I can tell, they seem to want millions of part-time amateurs.


----------



## Simon

From Uber

Thanks for writing in! You can learn more about Rasier's ridesharing insurance policy here.

Though the Rasier policy will act as primary insurance while you are using the Uber app, remember that all Uber partners must also have personal auto insurance.

Let me know if I can help with anything else.

So to me I don't call my insurance company I contact Uber.

Now I also requested the driver procedure should an accident occur. Still waiting.


----------



## Simon

stuber said:


> Huh? Please edit. I may agree, but I am not sure what you're saying.
> 
> UBER doesn't have a business model that is sustainable for full-time drivers. Nor do they want that. From what I can tell, they seem to want millions of part-time amateurs.


I think thier plan is to deploy self driving vehicles and kick drivers to the curb.


----------



## lu181

stuber said:


> Huh? Please edit. I may agree, but I am not sure what you're saying.
> 
> UBER doesn't have a business model that is sustainable for full-time drivers. Nor do they want that. From what I can tell, they seem to want millions of part-time amateurs.


just my opinion but they absolutely want full timers whether done on purpose or incidentally the only way for drivers to continue on the platform with the rate cut is longer hours since the math of lower rates equals increased income does not add up. you can only do 3-5 short rides an hr dependent on distance to and from the job and how long they take to get out the bar and to your car. They want an army of full time minimum wage workers but are advertising great money and being misleading. Deception is my only problem if you want to do long hours for crap money its all on you. For me its just money to throw at retirement but there are many who have to do this even for pennies


----------



## Desert Driver

John_in_kc said:


> well... uber not covering medical is in violation of no fault state PIP requirements were applicable, I assume the policy would confirm to state law where required.


Yes. It conforms to state mins.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> Soo Uber insurance is not primary? Because I thought I read somewhere on this board it was.


contingent


----------



## Desert Driver

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Would love to read their response


Here's the response I got from Uber regarding the guaranteed $1600 per week.

Hi [Desert Driver],
Good afternoon! I just wanted to let you know that the $1600/week promo is currently for new driver accounts only and covers about a month if the specific requirements are meant. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Best,
Joe


----------



## Jeeves

Desert Driver said:


> Here's the response I got from Uber regarding the guaranteed $1600 per week.
> 
> Hi [Desert Driver],
> Good afternoon! I just wanted to let you know that the $1600/week promo is currently for new driver accounts only and covers about a month if the specific requirements are meant. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
> Best,
> Joe


I hate that. It's like when Time Warner sends me an offer for a better deal than I have been paying them for the past 15 years. I call to get the better price on my existing service and they say it's for new customers only.


----------



## Desert Driver

Jeeves said:


> I hate that. It's like when Time Warner sends me an offer for a better deal than I have been paying them for the past 15 years. I call to get the better price on my existing service and they say it's for new customers only.


Well, to be fair, no one ever said marketing had to be fair or honest.


----------



## stuber

lu181 said:


> just my opinion but they absolutely want full timers whether done on purpose or incidentally the only way for drivers to continue on the platform with the rate cut is longer hours since the math of lower rates equals increased income does not add up. you can only do 3-5 short rides an hr dependent on distance to and from the job and how long they take to get out the bar and to your car. They want an army of full time minimum wage workers but are advertising great money and being misleading. Deception is my only problem if you want to do long hours for crap money its all on you. For me its just money to throw at retirement but there are many who have to do this even for pennies


You could be right. An army of low wage full-time toads. But either way, not sustainable. In contrast, FedEx and UPS work as sustainable businesses because the pro drivers there can make a decent wage and have opportunity to advance. At UBER, the firewall between drivers and corporate SF is impenetrable. Thus, corporate will never learn the core fundamentals from the driver's experience. Thus, UBER will fail when they run out of toads.


----------



## loki

Desert Driver said:


> Yes. It conforms to state mins.


In NV the Uber policy is not considered primary under state law and does not provide adequate coverage as the law is written. The driver has to have the insurance since they are an independent operator.


----------



## loki

observer said:


> "If driver has no healthcare insurance driver will pay out of pocket".
> 
> Another example of Uber passing off costs to driver. What happens when driver has no healthcare insurance or money to pay???
> 
> *Taxpayers will wind up paying the costs. Even if they have never used Uber themselves. *


The government doesn't shoulder the costs of the uninsured in that case, the rest of the market paying for health car does though. IOW, others still pay for it but in the form of higher heath insurance premiums and higher costs for services. For example an driver not covered racks up 100k in costs. Pretty easy to do in an accident with moderate injuries that require hospitalization. When he defaults it goes to collection, not the government. If it's collectible there could be a judgement and they'd go after the driver. If he defaults or files bankruptcy it's not the government that picks up the tab. It's the insurers and care providers who then add those costs to the pricing.


----------



## Desert Driver

loki said:


> In NV the Uber policy is not considered primary under state law and does not provide adequate coverage as the law is written. The driver has to have the insurance since they are an independent operator.


Correct. Uber requires all drivers to have full coverage, not just liability.


----------



## Desert Driver

loki said:


> The government doesn't shoulder the costs of the uninsured in that case, the rest of the market paying for health car does though. IOW, others still pay for it but in the form of higher heath insurance premiums and higher costs for services. For example an driver not covered racks up 100k in costs. Pretty easy to do in an accident with moderate injuries that require hospitalization. When he defaults it goes to collection, not the government. If it's collectible there could be a judgement and they'd go after the driver. If he defaults or files bankruptcy it's not the government that picks up the tab. It's the insurers and care providers who then add those costs to the pricing.


Doesn't really matter how you spin it. It's still an externalized (socialized) cost. This is huge component of the Wal-Mart business model, too.


----------



## loki

Desert Driver said:


> Correct. Uber requires all drivers to have full coverage, not just liability.


I think you've missed my point. It's got nothing to do with what Uber requires and is stipulated by the requirements for a CPCN that's required to operate here. Uber could have a billion dollar per incident policy but under NV law the insurance has to be in the name of the company that operates the vehicle which would be the independent UberX driver. I'm not sure if Raiser or James River is even licensed in NV to provide that kind of insurance. Looking at what others have posted as proof of insurance it doesn't comply with NV law regarding what the proof of insurance needs to say on it. Moot point though as unless the legislature rams something through to change the law (not likely) or Uber licenses the technology to an existing provider they aren't going to be in this market any time soon.


----------



## loki

Desert Driver said:


> Doesn't really matter how you spin it. It's still an externalized (socialized) cost. This is huge component of the Wal-Mart business model, too.


It's not spin, it's fact. You and the other chap stated used a government as a boogie man argument. There is nothing socialized about it. It's how the free market works, costs are passed on to the rest of the consumers. Ironically the ones that aren't negatively impacted are those receiving government managed services, Medicare, Medicaid, Tri Care, etc.

Walmart is different in that the taxpayers do foot the cost of subsidizing the employees though public assistance programs like food stamps, WIC and Medicaid.


----------



## Desert Driver

loki said:


> It's not spin, it's fact. You and the other chap stated used a government as a boogie man argument. There is nothing socialized about it. It's how the free market works, costs are passed on to the rest of the consumers. Ironically the ones that aren't negatively impacted are those receiving government managed services, Medicare, Medicaid, Tri Care, etc.
> 
> Walmart is different in that the taxpayers do foot the cost of subsidizing the employees though public assistance programs like food stamps, WIC and Medicaid.


You're missing the concept of privatizing profit while socializing costs. This is what Wal-Mart does with their employment model, same as Uber. It doesn't matter if the gov't pays or if costs are passed on to the consuming public. It's still a socialized cost model. And where did I ever say the government was a boogeyman, by the way?

Anything else I can clarify for you at this time?


----------



## observer

loki said:


> The government doesn't shoulder the costs of the uninsured in that case, the rest of the market paying for health car does though. IOW, others still pay for it but in the form of higher heath insurance premiums and higher costs for services. For example an driver not covered racks up 100k in costs. Pretty easy to do in an accident with moderate injuries that require hospitalization. When he defaults it goes to collection, not the government. If it's collectible there could be a judgement and they'd go after the driver. If he defaults or files bankruptcy it's not the government that picks up the tab. It's the insurers and care providers who then add those costs to the pricing.


The Uber driver attacked in Los Angeles, was sent to a county hospital that is paid with taxpayer money.


----------



## observer

observer said:


> The Uber driver attacked in Los Angeles, was sent to a county hospital that is paid with taxpayer money.


When people are uninsured they are generally taken to county hospitals, at least in California. If it is an extreme emergency they are taken to nearest hospital, stabilized and later transfered to a county hospital.


----------



## Desert Driver

observer said:


> The Uber driver attacked in Los Angeles, was sent to a county hospital that is paid with taxpayer money.


And after my conversation with Chris Boedeker at Uber, anyone who drives for Uber or Lyft without carrying healthcare insurance is really playing with fire. It's risky enough driving for a TNC, but to do so without healthcare coverage is pure folly.


----------



## chi1cabby

Desert Driver said:


> Correct. Uber requires all drivers to have full coverage, not just liability.


That's not true. Uber only requires state minimum Auto liability coverage.


----------



## Desert Driver

chi1cabby said:


> That's not true. Uber only requires state minimum Auto liability coverage.


What happens here, though, is that if a driver decides to drive for Uber with only liability, Uber's collision and comprehensive is not available to the Uber driver in a mishap. So, the pax and the other involved party will be covered, but the Uber driver is phuqued because his mangled wreck of a car is not insured at all.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Desert Driver said:


> I just sent this message to Uber support...
> 
> I saw a billboard today stating that I can earn $1600 per week with Uber. I have been driving for Uber for about two months and I think I'd like to move up to the $1600 per week guaranteed plan. How do I do that?
> I have attached a photo of the billboard.
> Thank you very much.


Uber Support

"Dear .......

Thankyou for showing an interest in our current $1600.00 p/week earnings guarantee. Uber is always keen to support its partners that strive to serve its customers endlessly.

Hitting those targets would be out of this world, so to speak. We think big here at Uber - Jupiter BIG. The Jovian day is 9.925 Earth hours in length. Naturally having such lofty goals we calculate the week based on Jovian times. This also ensures drivers are not overly pressured in hitting the target having over 70 earth days to make it.

We hope that has answered your question, please dont hesitate to reach out to us in the future, even if it is from outer space!

Uber On!


----------



## Simon

more information on how insurance works, please read below. Let me know if you have any other questions.

On top of your personal insurance policy, all partners using uberX in CT are backed by our corporate insurance policy, up to $1 million/incident. This covers uberX drivers' liability while they are providing transportation requested through the Uber app. You can read more about our insurance coverage and find a link to our policy here: http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsuranceNJRINC

The corporate insurance policy would apply to cover your liability only -- in other words, damages/injuries to other people and other people's cars, not your own -- in the event of an accident, if your personal insurance did not apply. It would cover damages to others' cars caused by your liability, but not to your own car. We recommend that you find a personal collision policy that will apply.

Only personal (not commercial) insurance is required. We hope this helps to clarify.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> more information on how insurance works, please read below. Let me know if you have any other questions.
> 
> On top of your personal insurance policy, all partners using uberX in CT are backed by our corporate insurance policy, up to $1 million/incident. This covers uberX drivers' liability while they are providing transportation requested through the Uber app. You can read more about our insurance coverage and find a link to our policy here: http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsuranceNJRINC
> 
> The corporate insurance policy would apply to cover your liability only -- in other words, damages/injuries to other people and other people's cars, not your own -- in the event of an accident, if your personal insurance did not apply. It would cover damages to others' cars caused by your liability, but not to your own car. We recommend that you find a personal collision policy that will apply.
> 
> Only personal (not commercial) insurance is required. We hope this helps to clarify.


Yup. Thank you for backing up what Chris Boedeker told me. We drivers are taking a risk. And any Uber driver who goes out there without any healthcare insurance is just begging for a BK.


----------



## Txchick

Desert Driver said:


> Yup. Thank you for backing up what Chris Boedeker told me. We drivers are taking a risk. And any Uber driver who goes out there without any healthcare insurance is just begging for a BK.


Not all health insurance covers you in a automobile accident.


----------



## DjTim

Desert Driver said:


> And after my conversation with Chris Boedeker at Uber, anyone who drives for Uber or Lyft without carrying healthcare insurance is really playing with fire. It's risky enough driving for a TNC, but to do so without healthcare coverage is pure folly.


But to be fair - if you don't have health insurance, your screwed either way. If I were to be walking on the street, cross that street and hit by an uninsured motorist, because the driver (depending on what state you are in) doesn't have insurance - I'm paying out of my pocket for my recovery. Let's take cars out of this - let's say I'm assaulted on the street and my arm is broken. The aggressor is never found. my healthcare isn't free just because I was assaulted.

Let's face it, with the ACA if you don't have insurance, your fined/taxed in the following year.


----------



## Txchick

DjTim said:


> But to be fair - if you don't have health insurance, your screwed either way. If I were to be walking on the street, cross that street and hit by an uninsured motorist, because the driver (depending on what state you are in) doesn't have insurance - I'm paying out of my pocket for my recovery. Let's take cars out of this - let's say I'm assaulted on the street and my arm is broken. The aggressor is never found. my healthcare isn't free just because I was assaulted.
> 
> Let's face it, with the ACA if you don't have insurance, your fined/taxed in the following year.


Their are many exceptions that allow you to pass on healthcare (ACA) and one of them is income & if your state does not offer Medicaid expansion when the ACA went into effect, then you can get a waiver.


----------



## DjTim

Txchick said:


> Their are many exceptions that allow you to pass on healthcare (ACA) and one of them is income & if your state does not offer Medicaid expansion when the ACA went into effect, then you can get a waiver.


I get there are wavers, but in the context of what Desert Driver was talking about - that waver isn't doing to do anything when your lying on a gurney at the hospital. You pay one way or another


----------



## Desert Driver

Txchick said:


> Not all health insurance covers you in a automobile accident.


Man, you describe some shitty healthcare insurance. I guess the obvious question is, why would anyone select such worthless coverage?


----------



## Desert Driver

DjTim said:


> But to be fair - if you don't have health insurance, your screwed either way. If I were to be walking on the street, cross that street and hit by an uninsured motorist, because the driver (depending on what state you are in) doesn't have insurance - I'm paying out of my pocket for my recovery. Let's take cars out of this - let's say I'm assaulted on the street and my arm is broken. The aggressor is never found. my healthcare isn't free just because I was assaulted.
> 
> Let's face it, with the ACA if you don't have insurance, your fined/taxed in the following year.


I can't imagine going about my life without healthcare coverage. I'd be second guessing myself every time I left the house or got on a ladder.


----------



## Jeeves

One good thing about being a low income Uber driver is that you can get subsidized health care!! If you make $20k (netting $20k a year with Uber ain't easy), in California you can get $350 health care plan for $100 a month. The state and the feds are helping with your premiums.

I think Uber should offer this in their rewards program. Driver Bonus - Net only $20k a year and get cheap health care!! Oh wait do they already have that?


----------



## Simon

I have health insurance so I really don't care about that but what I really care about is that my vehicle won't be repaired that's important because if I'm working on taking a passenger then well then they should pay for that damage on my car but that's what I'm really concerned about. So I'm confused on whether or not they're actually going to be for my car if I get into an accident he doesn't wait reason I email the James River insurance won't cover my damages will only cover other peoples damages. The way I see it from the email is that I have to clean my damages on my own insurance while taking a passenger and that's really not going to work because as soon as they find out I'm freaking screwed and my insurance company drops me. I wish they could just be more comprehensive and cover the whole thing that would just make it easier for them and us.


----------



## Txchick

Desert Driver said:


> Man, you describe some shitty healthcare insurance. I guess the obvious question is, why would anyone select such worthless coverage?


Well my full time employer selected our insurance and mine does cover car accidents., but not all do that are provided by employers or the ACA. What one can do is make sure they PIP insurance on their personal car insurance. That would cover you in that scenario.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> I have health insurance so I really don't care about that but what I really care about is that my vehicle won't be repaired that's important because if I'm working on taking a passenger then well then they should pay for that damage on my car but that's what I'm really concerned about. So I'm confused on whether or not they're actually going to be for my car if I get into an accident he doesn't wait reason I email the James River insurance won't cover my damages will only cover other peoples damages. The way I see it from the email is that I have to clean my damages on my own insurance while taking a passenger and that's really not going to work because as soon as they find out I'm freaking screwed and my insurance company drops me. I wish they could just be more comprehensive and cover the whole thing that would just make it easier for them and us.


If your whip is damaged through no fault of your own, the at-fault driver's insurance pays for your whip. If the at-fault driver has no insurance, Uber expects you to try your insurance company first, then Uber's insurance pays for your whip. Problem here, of course, is that your insurance company will likely drop you.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

Desert Driver said:


> A lot of people are reaching that very conclusion. The insurance industry has a problem on its hands that it needs to get figured out.


First of all. Nice work on your information.

However you have it backwards. The insurance industry does NOT have a problem. They offer commercial insurance. The problem is with the TNC industry that does not pay their drivers enough to afford the proper insurance.


----------



## Desert Driver

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> First of all. Nice work on your information.
> 
> However you have it backwards. The insurance industry does NOT have a problem. They offer commercial insurance. The problem is with the TNC industry that does not pay their drivers enough to afford the proper insurance.


That's an interesting POV but incompatible with the new sharing economy.


----------



## pengduck

Txchick said:


> Not all health insurance covers you in a automobile accident.


Health insurance will cover you. However they may sue another insurance company to recover some or all of their costs. As a side note I went on ehealth.com and am paying about $25 a month that pays me if I have to go in to the hospital. Not an income replacement but will help with the bills while I can not work.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

Desert Driver said:


> That's an interesting POV but incompatible with the new sharing economy.


Well, the "sharing economy" as you put it, better figure out how to become compatible with the real world or they will continue to have uninsured drivers on the road. BTW, TNC's are not ridesharing, they are commercial businesses no matter how you try to spin it.

You do realize the "C" in "TNC" stands for company don't you?


----------



## Desert Driver

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Well, the "sharing economy" as you put it, better figure out how to become compatible with the real world or they will continue to have uninsured drivers on the road. BTW, TNC's are not ridesharing, they are commercial businesses no matter how you try to spin it.
> 
> You do realize the "C" in "TNC" stands for company don't you?


I thought it stood for cheese.

I like your quaint outlook, I have to admit. It's cute.


----------



## Desert Driver

pengduck said:


> Health insurance will cover you. However they may sue another insurance company to recover some or all of their costs. As a side note I went on ehealth.com and am paying about $25 a month that pays me if I have to go in to the hospital. Not an income replacement but will help with the bills while I can not work.


There ya go! Good find. Kudos to ya!


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

Desert Driver said:


> I thought it stood for cheese.
> 
> I like your quaint outlook, I have to admit. It's cute.


The fact you cannot retort speaks volumes.


----------



## Desert Driver

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> The fact you cannot retort speaks volumes.


Oh, no need to apologize. I truly do think your quaint POV is admirable. You see, we are experiencing and witnessing an economic paradigm shift. And, so far, the insurance industry has its thumbs up it collective ass trying to figure out if it's supposed to shit or go blind. This is natural and predictable. The insurance industry has never been an industry of innovation. Instead, the insurance industry generally lags behind and then responds to innovation as required and as a result of public pressure and social movement.

Anything else I can clarify for you, or are we good for now?


----------



## stuber

Desert Driver said:


> That's an interesting POV but incompatible with the new sharing economy.


Is that sarcasm? Either there's enough money to the driver to operate legit, or the whole business model UBER uses is BS. The sharing economy is perfectly fine, but what is it? What is the goal?

A: Full-time drivers making a decent living, or B: part-time drivers offsetting their expenses of car ownership?


----------



## Desert Driver

stuber said:


> Is that sarcasm? Either there's enough money to the driver to operate legit, or the whole business model UBER uses is BS. The sharing economy is perfectly fine, but what is it? What is the goal?
> 
> A: Full-time drivers making a decent living, or B: part-time drivers offsetting their expenses of car ownership?


No sarcasm at all. Merely a comment on the economic paradigm shift we're witnessing. Why do you ask?


----------



## Simon

(Uber)

Jan 08 10:25

The insurance that we provide is only for third party liability.

So your insurance is responsible for you and your vehicle


----------



## Simon

The above post simply means that it's a risk everyday. I am going to have to stop until there is an alternative to that insurance gap.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> The above post simply means that it's a risk everyday. I am going to have to stop until there is an alternative to that insurance gap.


You are making a wise decision. Insurance companies are starting to figure out that they have a problem on their hands, they just haven't figured out a way to respond to the new sharing economy. Historically, insurance companies have never been particularly adept at responding to economic or social paradigm shifts - it's just the conservative nature of the industry. I'm not saying that's bad or good, I'm merely stating a fact.

Best of luck to you, Simon.


----------



## centralFLFuber

Simon said:


> (Uber)
> 
> Jan 08 10:25
> 
> The insurance that we provide is only for third party liability.
> 
> So your insurance is responsible for you and your vehicle


Yep Uber takes care of everyone EXCEPT the DRIVERS Not the drivers body; nor the drivers car....(well maybe but 1k deductible and your own insurance will cancel U and uber says good luck getting insurance again....really bad scenario especially if ur auto has a loan on it)

and again I restate: F*CK U UBER!


----------



## Desert Driver

centralFLFuber said:


> Yep Uber takes care of everyone EXCEPT the DRIVERS Not the drivers body; nor the drivers car....(well maybe but 1k deductible and your own insurance will cancel U and uber says good luck getting insurance again....really bad scenario especially if ur auto has a loan on it)
> 
> and again I restate: F*CK U UBER!


Well stated. Sounds like you should probably hang it up until this insurance mess gets sorted out satisfactorily.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

Desert Driver said:


> Oh, no need to apologize. I truly do think your quaint POV is admirable. You see, we are experiencing and witnessing an economic paradigm shift. And, so far, the insurance industry has its thumbs up it collective ass trying to figure out if it's supposed to shit or go blind. This is natural and predictable. The insurance industry has never been an industry of innovation. Instead, the insurance industry generally lags behind and then responds to innovation as required and as a result of public pressure and social movement.
> 
> Anything else I can clarify for you, or are we good for now?


Before you go talking about ecomomic paradigm shifts Mr. UberX driver, perhaps you could give us your definition of sharing and how driving for hire fits into that definition.


----------



## stuber

Desert Driver said:


> No sarcasm at all. Merely a comment on the economic paradigm shift we're witnessing. Why do you ask?


...and that economic paradigm shift is simply that "for hire"transportation will no longer be conducted by drivers with adequate insurance? I don't think so. The technology can certainly bring about more efficient ways of brokering and dispatching jobs, but in the end, regardless of how sell or assign the trips, there is still the need for insurance. And the service provider (driver) still has to operate with a profit margin.


----------



## stuber

Desert Driver said:


> No sarcasm at all. Merely a comment on the economic paradigm shift we're witnessing. Why do you ask?


...or is the economic paradigm shift simply that " for hire" transportation will disappear? Replaced by ridesharing.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

The adding of a phone app to dispatch and collect fees for "for hire" transportation is not really changing anything economically, however replacing drivers with driverless cars could have a big impact.


----------



## observer

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> The adding of a phone app to dispatch and collect fees for "for hire" transportation is not really changing anything economically, however replacing drivers with driverless cars could have a big impact.


Now THAT would be a paradigm shift.


----------



## jsixis

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Insurance companies offer livery coverage, why does everyone have to bend over backwards to accomodate uber, they are in clear voilation of many laws, they encourage drivers to commit fraud, why is this ok, why is the government not investigating this fraud? And are drivers enabling uber?


Not for uber drivers according to Allstate


----------



## Desert Driver

jsixis said:


> Not for uber drivers according to Allstate


Maybe you should find another means of earning income. This sounds too stressful for you.


----------



## Desert Driver

stuber said:


> ...and that economic paradigm shift is simply that "for hire"transportation will no longer be conducted by drivers with adequate insurance? I don't think so. The technology can certainly bring about more efficient ways of brokering and dispatching jobs, but in the end, regardless of how sell or assign the trips, there is still the need for insurance. And the service provider (driver) still has to operate with a profit margin.


Exactly.


----------



## Desert Driver

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Before you go talking about ecomomic paradigm shifts Mr. UberX driver, perhaps you could give us your definition of sharing and how driving for hire fits into that definition.


Who said my name was Mr. UberX?


----------



## Lidman

Driverless cars? lol now that's funny. I can't imagine the algarhythm the programmers would have to write. I think even Bill Gates would be impressed with this.


----------



## Simon

Lidman said:


> Driverless cars? lol now that's funny. I can't imagine the algarhythm the programmers would have to write. I think even Bill Gates would be impressed with this.


http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7499581/audi-self-driving-car-a7-ces-2015

Less than 5 years away. Instead of pinging an inefficient human the cars will just guide themselves.


----------



## Desert Driver

stuber said:


> ...or is the economic paradigm shift simply that " for hire" transportation will disappear? Replaced by ridesharing.


It's too early to tell. That's how paradigm shifts go. You don't really know where you'll end up while in the midst of the paradigm shift. It's kinda cool, ya gotta admit.


----------



## Desert Driver

Lidman said:


> Driverless cars? lol now that's funny. I can't imagine the algarhythm the programmers would have to write. I think even Bill Gates would be impressed with this.


Ya know, running a driverless Prius around the Google campus is a far cry from sending a driverless 'Burban down the 405 at rush hour.


----------



## Simon

Desert Driver said:


> Ya know, running a driverless Prius around the Google campus is a far cry from sending a driverless 'Burban down the 405 at rush hour.


Your wrong the tech is further advanced than you think.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> Your wrong the tech is further advanced than you think.


Yes, of course it is, dear.

But what do you care anyway? You're hanging up your Uber keys, right?


----------



## Simon

Yes but I am a big proponent of self driving cars. Most people think it's Jetson stuff, but it's coming.

Soon you will have to pay a special tax to drive your own car in a special lane on the highway.

Truck drivers are going to be blindsided the worse.


----------



## Desert Driver

Desert Driver said:


> Yes, of course it is, dear.





Simon said:


> Yes but I am a big proponent of self driving cars. Most people think it's Jetson stuff, but it's coming.
> 
> Soon you will have to pay a special tax to drive your own car in a special lane on the highway.
> 
> Truck drivers are going to be blindsided the worse.


But realistically, we're a generation out on that paradigm shift.


----------



## Simon

Desert Driver said:


> But realistically, we're a generation out on that paradigm shift.


Yup I would say so. I don't expect my daughter to have to get a drivers license.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> Yup I would say so. I don't expect my daughter to have to get a drivers license.


How old is the young lass?


----------



## Simon

Desert Driver said:


> How old is the young lass?


2 months


----------



## centralFLFuber

think this thread needs a bump...U R DRIVING ILLEGALLY AND NEED COMMERCIAL VEHICLE FOR HIRE LIVERY INSURANCE!!!


----------



## Desert Driver

centralFLFuber said:


> think this thread needs a bump...U R DRIVING ILLEGALLY AND NEED COMMERCIAL VEHICLE FOR HIRE LIVERY INSURANCE!!!


Yeah, there are a lot of people saying that.


----------



## Bart McCoy

i thought everyone on this forum knew this though


----------



## Worcester Sauce

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Here it is
> View attachment 3336


....**** me! ....and the sign says $1600 "GAURANTEED" no less. No wonder the poor drivers in Boston are driving into Worcester now (used to be the other way around). Boston has escaped the latest round of rate cuts. But I fear that once the snow is gone, so will $1.20 per mile.


----------



## Desert Driver

Worcester Sauce said:


> ....**** me! ....and the sign says $1600 "GAURANTEED" no less. No wonder the poor drivers in Boston are driving into Worcester now (used to be the other way around). Boston has escaped the latest round of rate cuts. But I fear that once the snow is gone, so will $1.20 per mile.


I sent that picture to Uber. I was told it doesn't apply to current drivers. Gee, there's a shock.


----------



## OCBob

stuber said:


> You could be right. An army of low wage full-time toads. But either way, not sustainable. In contrast, FedEx and UPS work as sustainable businesses because the pro drivers there can make a decent wage and have opportunity to advance. At UBER, the firewall between drivers and corporate SF is impenetrable. Thus, corporate will never learn the core fundamentals from the driver's experience. Thus, UBER will fail when they run out of toads.


Kind of like Multi Level Marketing Companies. Very few make it beyond 5-10 years and 1% of their employees make the big money.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Worcester Sauce said:


> ....**** me! ....and the sign says $1600 "GAURANTEED" no less. No wonder the poor drivers in Boston are driving into Worcester now (used to be the other way around). Boston has escaped the latest round of rate cuts. But I fear that once the snow is gone, so will $1.20 per mile.


Geez, from my limited understanding of American hierarchical order, Bostonian's are supposed to be the purveyors of class and dignity.

How will they sleep if they find out they're paying the same as Chicago rates? That will be a kick in their collective Ego's, but they will still be too dumb to tip*! *


----------



## Desert Driver

OCBob said:


> Kind of like Multi Level Marketing Companies. Very few make it beyond 5-10 years and 1% of their employees make the big money.


Just don't call it a ponzi scheme. Many here have made that mistake already.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Sydney Uber said:


> Geez, from my limited understanding of American hierarchical order, Bostonian's are supposed to be the purveyors of class and dignity.
> 
> How will they sleep if they find out they're paying the same as Chicago rates? That will be a kick in their collective Ego's, but they will still be too dumb to tip*! *


Well, Sydney my friend....I am living, breathing proof of the exception to the rule. I have not purveyed much class or dignity lately.
A few hundred years ago, Bostonian's were the ill-mannered, misbehaving step-children of one very pissed-off monarch. Not dis-similar to our cousins on your continent.


----------



## OCBob

Desert Driver said:


> Just don't call it a ponzi scheme. Many here have made that mistake already.


I don't think it is a ponzi scheme at least on my end but what happened when someone called it that?


----------



## Jay2dresq

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Insurance companies offer livery coverage, why does everyone have to bend over backwards to accomodate uber, they are in clear voilation of many laws, they encourage drivers to commit fraud, why is this ok, why is the government not investigating this fraud? And are drivers enabling uber?


Because the insurance companies that issue livery policies will not issue them on privately registered vehicles. This means that to do it, you must create an LLC, "sell" your vehicle to the LLC, then get a vehicle title in the LLC name, register it in the LLC's name, and then you can get livery coverage (maybe).

If you're like many people, you have a note on the late model car you're Ubering in. To do this, you have to have enough cash to pay off your note so you can get your lender to release the lien and the title to you.


----------



## Desert Driver

OCBob said:


> I don't think it is a ponzi scheme at least on my end but what happened when someone called it that?


I'm just commenting that I had to correct a few people who called Uber a ponzi scheme. I explained what a ponzi scheme is.


----------



## Desert Driver

Jay2dresq said:


> Because the insurance companies that issue livery policies will not issue them on privately registered vehicles. This means that to do it, you must create an LLC, "sell" your vehicle to the LLC, then get a vehicle title in the LLC name, register it in the LLC's name, and then you can get livery coverage (maybe).
> 
> If you're like many people, you have a note on the late model car you're Ubering in. To do this, you have to have enough cash to pay off your note so you can get your lender to release the lien and the title to you.


But even after all that, how many people can afford the $4k annual nut for commercial insurance?


----------



## Simon

Desert Driver said:


> But even after all that, how many people can afford the $4k annual nut for commercial insurance?


You would not make profit anyway so it's not worth it.


----------



## Desert Driver

Simon said:


> You would not make profit anyway so it's not worth it.


Exactly. So drivers will continue to drive in blatant violation of the livery exclusion of their personal automobile insurance policies.


----------



## stuber

Sydney Uber said:


> Geez, from my limited understanding of American hierarchical order, Bostonian's are supposed to be the purveyors of class and dignity.
> 
> How will they sleep if they find out they're paying the same as Chicago rates? That will be a kick in their collective Ego's, but they will still be too dumb to tip*! *


Class and dignity? Huh? This is America we're talking about right? No I think you're confusing Boston with someplace else.


----------



## Desert Driver

Sydney Uber said:


> Geez, from my limited understanding of American hierarchical order, Bostonian's are supposed to be the purveyors of class and dignity.
> 
> How will they sleep if they find out they're paying the same as Chicago rates? That will be a kick in their collective Ego's, but they will still be too dumb to tip*! *


I can quite assure there is nothing classy or dignified about Boston or its residents.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Desert Driver said:


> I can quite assure there is nothing classy or dignified about Boston or its residents.


There you go! Two votes for Boston = Barbarians and no folk jumping to their defence!

It's amazing how a lifetime of watching American TV shows can skew reality.


----------



## Desert Driver

Sydney Uber said:


> There you go! Two votes for Boston = Barbarians and no folk jumping to their defence!
> 
> It's amazing how a lifetime of watching American TV shows can skew reality.


I have another great story along those very lines of something that I observed while in college at Oxford.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Desert Driver said:


> I have another great story along those very lines of something that I observed while in college at Oxford.


I never went to college, but I'm all for an education! Do tell!


----------



## Courageous

Jay2dresq said:


> Because the insurance companies that issue livery policies will not issue them on privately registered vehicles. This means that to do it, you must create an LLC, "sell" your vehicle to the LLC, then get a vehicle title in the LLC name, register it in the LLC's name, and then you can get livery coverage (maybe).
> 
> If you're like many people, you have a note on the late model car you're Ubering in. To do this, you have to have enough cash to pay off your note so you can get your lender to release the lien and the title to you.


Commercial policies DO cover vehicles registered in private name. At least for the nearly 15 years I've been in the business they have.


----------



## The_Nerd

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Sirhc Rekedeob. (Suberman, is that name acceptable?) Mr. Rekedeob is the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by [Sirhc Rekedeob], Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> Great job, DD, bringing this to the forum's attention. You are an asset.
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Rekedeob rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Rekedeob was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


\

Great job, DD.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

UberHustla said:


> I think a lot of the ridiculous claims of how much you can make (like on Craigslist) are done by other drivers trying to get a referral bonus.


POST # 31 / @UberHustla: ♤♡♢♧
Think what you will about Drivers' shilling
for #ASSHAT LLC but you have erred
this time.

@chi1cabby Posted a now-notorious
Boston Billboard Photo of "Make
$80,000 this year". This is back-
pedalling from #Emperor Asshat I's
earlier statement that "...fully utilized
vehicles earn over $100,000/yr."


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Desert Driver said:


> I have another great story along those very lines of something that I observed while in college at Oxford.


POST # 132 / @Desert Driver : ♤♡♢♧

Is this where you mount your "high horse"
and "pish-posh" the unworthy proletariat
by trying to out-****** Member "John 
Anderson" with his tale of "two Masters 
and working on a Ph.D."?

Travis, move over... D.D. wants to join
you on the Hubris Podium!


----------



## jackstraww

- - informative stuff--how did you happen on a human??- -


----------



## Monica rodriguez

So they will cover everyone and everything but not the poor driver and his car! And want the driver to get completely screwed by claiming it on his personal insurance. 

Im looking for another job and I hope I find one soon so I can quit Uber. Its just not worth the risk and I dont make enough with Uber to buy a commercial insurance.


----------



## brianwithers

This is what concerns me about driving for Uber, in PA, we are required by law to inform our personal carriers. I have not done that yet, what should I do? Uber will not answer my questions about this...


----------



## chi1cabby

brianwithers said:


> in PA, we are required by law to inform our personal carriers. I have not done that yet, what should I do? Uber will not answer my questions about this...


Uber could care less if you do inform your car insurer about your Uber driving, which promptly drops your insurance coverage. And Uber could care even less if you don't inform your insurer, and operate in violation of it's Pennsylvania PUC operating agreement.

*Uber Is A Scoff Law Outfit!
*
I suggest that you email Uber and tell em that you'd be reaching out to PA PUC to make them aware of their lack of clarification on insurance carrier notification.


----------



## Txchick

chi1cabby said:


> Uber could care less if you do inform your car insurer about your Uber driving, which promptly drops your insurance coverage. And Uber could care even less if you don't inform your insurer, and operate in violation of it's Pennsylvania PUC operating agreement.
> 
> *Uber Is A Scoff Law Outfit!
> *
> I suggest that you email Uber and tell em that you'd be reaching out to PA PUC to make them aware of their lack of clarification on insurance carrier notification.


Exactly! Make that call or email!!


----------



## brianwithers

chi1cabby said:


> Uber could care less if you do inform your car insurer about your Uber driving, which promptly drops your insurance coverage. And Uber could care even less if you don't inform your insurer, and operate in violation of it's Pennsylvania PUC operating agreement.
> 
> *Uber Is A Scoff Law Outfit!
> *
> I suggest that you email Uber and tell em that you'd be reaching out to PA PUC to make them aware of their lack of clarification on insurance carrier notification.


I will, thank you.


----------



## crazyb

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Insurance companies offer livery coverage, why does everyone have to bend over backwards to accomodate uber, they are in clear voilation of many laws, they encourage drivers to commit fraud, why is this ok, why is the government not investigating this fraud? And are drivers enabling uber?


Why are drivers enabling this fraud? Because most of us have been out of steady work for years, a young couple can't even make ends meet on a double income. Yes there is a risk but not putting food in your stomach is a lot more stressful. No resume or interview to be a partner - just a clean criminal and driving record and a decent car.


----------



## scrurbscrud

brianwithers said:


> This is what concerns me about driving for Uber, in PA, we are required by law to inform our personal carriers. I have not done that yet, what should I do? Uber will not answer my questions about this...


Tell the truth(to YOUR insurance company) and, you know, see what happens?


----------



## 49matrix

MiamiFlyer said:


> Thanks, covers the Uber driver's medical and collision coverage with clarity that is not even touched upon in that blog entry.


I second that! Why hasn't the media picked this up? I would have thought it would be right up their alley!


----------



## Sydney Uber

brianwithers said:


> This is what concerns me about driving for Uber, in PA, we are required by law to inform our personal carriers. I have not done that yet, what should I do? Uber will not answer my questions about this...


Insurance companies are licensed to operate and pay big license fees to Government. In return the government provides insurance companies with legislated laws protecting them against fraudulent claims. That's why they are able to dismiss and refuse claims from private motorists Who are utilising their vehicles for hire and reward.

Uber's model is NOT Rideshare. If it was then all would be OK. It's a ********** set-up


----------



## Guest

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver s a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


So educational. Thank you!


----------



## scrurbscrud

Lizamtampa said:


> So educational. Thank you! J


Keep in mind it's a private correspondence between a driver and a supposed Uber area manager obtained after running through a LOT of impertinent typical cut and pastes. I did the same exercises in my region and got stonewalled with 'read the links available online.' Nothing definitive enough to stake a claim on for anyone else.


----------



## Guest

Desert Driver said:


> Man, you describe some shitty healthcare insurance. I guess the obvious question is, why would anyone select such worthless coverage?


You buy what you can afford.


----------



## Desert Driver

Lizamtampa said:


> You buy what you can afford.


Sooner or later this country is going to wake up to the benefits and value of a national healthcare plan.


----------



## Guest

Desert Driver said:


> Sooner or later this country is going to wake up to the benefits and value of a national healthcare plan.


Not a fan of that. You will never get care, people die waiting for care


----------



## Desert Driver

Lizamtampa said:


> Not a fan of that. You will never get care, people die waiting for care


Yeah, that's what the propaganda pieces say that are produced by the US-based healthcare insurance industry. But that fact is, the first-world countries with nationalized healthcare actually have a lower mortality rate than the US does with its for-profit system. Weird, huh?


----------



## Actionjax

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, that's what the propaganda pieces say that are produced by the US-based healthcare insurance industry. But that fact is, the first-world countries with nationalized healthcare actually have a lower mortality rate than the US does with its for-profit system. Weird, huh?


It seems to work for us long as you don't mind waiting a few hours to get into a hospital. There are pros and cons to the nationalized health care system. If it were my choice I wouldn't give it up for anything. Mind you our doctors would love to make more money than they get today. This is why some of our best move south if money is their motivation.


----------



## Desert Driver

Actionjax said:


> It seems to work for us long as you don't mind waiting a few hours to get into a hospital. There are pros and cons to the nationalized health care system. If it were my choice I wouldn't give it up for anything. Mind you our doctors would love to make more money than they get today. This is why some of our best move south if money is their motivation.


Here in the US, ER wait times are frequently surpassing eight hours. That's why more ERs are setting up systems in which the injured/ill person calls the ER, gets on the list to be seen, then waits at home until the ER calls and tells him that the in-lobby wait is currently less than 1 hour. Nothing like sitting at home with a kid with a broken arm for six hours. And wait times to see certain specialists can go out weeks, even months (non-emergency.) So, this notion that the for-profit system is always superior is total bullshit, factually speaking, of course.


----------



## franklin

Desert Driver said:


> ... The insurance industry has a problem on its hands that it needs to get figured out.


I'd say it's Uber who has the problem, not the insurance industry.


----------



## Desert Driver

franklin said:


> I'd say it's Uber who has the problem, not the insurance industry.


That is certainly another POV. Eventually, of course, the Uber lobby and the insurance lobby will work this out on the links and over cocktails.


----------



## uberdriver0911

Very informative. Newbie here, just lurking and learning.


----------



## Desert Driver

uberdriver0911 said:


> Very informative. Newbie here, just lurking and learning.


We're here to help. I'd be out driving tonight but my car is in the body shop. Got rear-ended with a carload of paxs last Friday night.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Desert Driver said:


> We're here to help. I'd be out driving tonight but my car is in the body shop. Got rear-ended with a carload of paxs last Friday night.


heh heh yer full of it.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Lizamtampa said:


> Not a fan of that. You will never get care, people die waiting for care


And they don't here of course. I have lived in countries with national health care and in the USA and with is better unless you're rich.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Desert Driver said:


> Sooner or later this country is going to wake up to the benefits and value of a national healthcare plan.


It works here in Australia- 1.5% levy on earnings give EVERYONE healthcare. The rich pay more, those who are without income pay none but get the same cover as a contributor.

My family pays additional 4-5k pa for "private" healthcare for the times we want choices in practitioners treating us and where.

The Australian Govt oversees the biggest drug buying cartel in the world. Drug companies get to distribute their drugs at the price a government committee decrees. If my family of 5 has a bad year and purchase's more than $1500 worth of prescription drugs, the rest are free. This is available to all under national health.

Most Australians don't understand the opposition to National Health in the US. Sometimes the fear of Government gets in the way of practical thinking in the USA.


----------



## Courageous

Sydney Uber said:


> It works here in Australia- 1.5% levy on earnings give EVERYONE healthcare. The rich pay more, those who are without income pay none but get the same cover as a contributor.
> 
> My family pays additional 4-5k pa for "private" healthcare for the times we want choices in practitioners treating us and where.
> 
> The Australian Govt oversees the biggest drug buying cartel in the world. Drug companies get to distribute their drugs at the price a government committee decrees. If my family of 5 has a bad year and purchase's more than $1500 worth of prescription drugs, the rest are free. This is available to all under national health.
> 
> Most Australians don't understand the opposition to National Health in the US. Sometimes the fear of Government gets in the way of practical thinking in the USA.


Even the most wealthy in our country do not like being forced into charitable contributions... it flies in the face of what "charity" is about. Most very wealthy are very generous with THEIR CHOICE of charity... as it should be. WE ARE FREE here. PERIOD
*God I hate it when I can't resist the temptation to get into politics on this board!*


----------



## Actionjax

Sydney Uber said:


> It works here in Australia- 1.5% levy on earnings give EVERYONE healthcare. The rich pay more, those who are without income pay none but get the same cover as a contributor.
> 
> My family pays additional 4-5k pa for "private" healthcare for the times we want choices in practitioners treating us and where.
> 
> The Australian Govt oversees the biggest drug buying cartel in the world. Drug companies get to distribute their drugs at the price a government committee decrees. If my family of 5 has a bad year and purchase's more than $1500 worth of prescription drugs, the rest are free. This is available to all under national health.
> 
> Most Australians don't understand the opposition to National Health in the US. Sometimes the fear of Government gets in the way of practical thinking in the USA.


Not just you guys, In Canada we can't figure out why the US won't go that way either.


----------



## Guest

Desert Driver said:


> Here in the US, ER wait times are frequently surpassing eight hours. That's why more ERs are setting up systems in which the injured/ill person calls the ER, gets on the list to be seen, then waits at home until the ER calls and tells him that the in-lobby wait is currently less than 1 hour. Nothing like sitting at home with a kid with a broken arm for six hours. And wait times to see certain specialists can go out weeks, even months (non-emergency.) So, this notion that the for-profit system is always superior is total bullshit, factually speaking, of course.


I've always gotten into an ER within one hour here on Tampa. But that is last resort.. People don't realize how much going to the ER impacts their employers cost at time of renewal... Impacts claims experience for sure.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Courageous said:


> Even the most wealthy in our country do not like being forced into charitable contributions... it flies in the face of what "charity" is about. Most very wealthy are very generous with THEIR CHOICE of charity... as it should be. WE ARE FREE here. PERIOD
> *God I hate it when I can't resist the temptation to get into politics on this board!*


Ok I do get that many of the super-rich do great things for charity. I've watched Warren Buffet in an interview totally agree that he isn't taxed enough and call for the US Govt to tax rich folk more. I watched Bill Gates interviewed about 10yrs before he retired stating how he was going to give away the vast majority of his wealth when he retires. That was hard to believe, but he and his wife have started incredible charity programs and are enjoying the job of giving his billions away to charitable enterprises.

But not all contribute a "relevant" amount to their country, many see it a sport to avoid tax. Look where Greece is with the lowest tax compliance figures in Europe. A country eventually goes broke.

Edit: the Medicare Levy is 1.5-2.0% on gross income- for me and my family that's about $1000 p/a! Cheap as chips


----------



## Sydney Uber

Actionjax said:


> Not just you guys, In Canada we can't figure out why the US won't go that way either.


It really is crazy! The secured revenue that a National health system provides allows the system a budgetary framework to operate in.

For those that CANT afford private hospitals with their hotel-like private rooms and choice of physicians the public health system is more than adequate. I chose to go to a Public hospital when I had a little heart problem and needed 3 stents. No effing charge!

My wife wanted her own obstetrician and the 5 star room for the birth of our 3 kids so we used our private insurance (which also requires a 20% gap payment).

The 20% gap payment was easily covered by the wonderful $5000 baby bonus that women received for the birth of each child here in Australia!

Tax! Swings and Roundabouts with your money


----------



## Desert Driver

Lizamtampa said:


> I've always gotten into an ER within one hour here on Tampa. But that is last resort.. People don't realize how much going to the ER impacts their employers cost at time of renewal... Impacts claims experience for sure.


But Mitt Romney said the ER was a wonderful healthcare option for the poor and uninsured.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Courageous said:


> Even the most wealthy in our country do not like being forced into charitable contributions... it flies in the face of what "charity" is about. Most very wealthy are very generous with THEIR CHOICE of charity... as it should be. WE ARE FREE here. PERIOD
> *God I hate it when I can't resist the temptation to get into politics on this board!*


I've lived with and without a national health care system (UK Germany US) and I can't figure out why POOR Americans are against it. Brainwashed I guess.


----------



## Desert Driver

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I've lived with and without a national health care system (UK Germany US) and I can't figure out why POOR Americans are against it. Brainwashed I guess.


Bingo!


----------



## Desert Driver

Actionjax said:


> Not just you guys, In Canada we can't figure out why the US won't go that way either.


We have a LOT of low-information voters and citizens in this country.


----------



## Lidman

need the scrubbers input on tbis


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Courageous said:


> Even the most wealthy in our country do not like being forced into charitable contributions... it flies in the face of what "charity" is about. Most very wealthy are very generous with THEIR CHOICE of charity... as it should be. WE ARE FREE here. PERIOD
> *God I hate it when I can't resist the temptation to get into politics on this board!*


I don't consider paying for Healthcare with taxes "charity". And the way things work here often costs more in the long run. When I was 18 I was one of the people sitting in a county hospital ER for 8 hours for an ear infection. I had no money and no insurance and I never paid the bill. So instead of "charity" paying a quick clinic visit an ER doctors time was taken up and a considerably more expensive bill was paid by padding private insurers bills or taxpayers.

Explain how that makes sense. And don't get me started on things like prenatal care. I worked for a neonatologist and before that a pediatric cardiologist in the Texas Medical Center for 13 years and an enormous amount is spent taking care of preventable issues with newborns and premature babies.

I could go on...steps off soap box...


----------



## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> We have a LOT of low-information voters and citizens in this country.


I am highly informed and I don't support a single payer national plan, for a myriad of reasons unrelated to commercial vehicle insurance.

Although the popularity, and attitude which boosted Uber, combined with widespread criticism of Uber does provide a good example of why many caution against a national plan: people tend to want the best of both worlds. They want the freedom to do what they want, when they want, with absolutely no rules to regulate their actions, and no fees to cover any future risks; yet, when their actions result in something bad, they want a safety net provided by the govt. See, I understand this about my fellow humans, this is why I do not support a national healthcare plan for a country full of more than 300 million people.


----------



## Desert Driver

Tx rides said:


> I am highly informed and I don't support a single payer national plan, for a myriad of reasons unrelated to commercial vehicle insurance.
> 
> Although the popularity, and attitude which boosted Uber, combined with widespread criticism of Uber does provide a good example of why many caution against a national plan: people tend to want the best of both worlds. They want the freedom to do what they want, when they want, with absolutely no rules to regulate their actions, and no fees to cover any future risks; yet, when their actions result in something bad, they want a safety net provided by the govt. See, I understand this about my fellow humans, this is why I do not support a national healthcare plan for a country full of more than 300 million people.


Sounds like you need to educate yourself more thoroughly about how nationalized healthcare operates and about the blindside risks that occur when primary care healthcare insurance is run under the for-profit model.


----------



## Desert Driver

Lidman said:


> need the scrubbers input on tbis


I'd love to solicit his input, but the Mod said I'm not allowed to talk to him anymore.


----------



## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> Sounds like you need to educate yourself more thoroughly about how nationalized healthcare operates and about the blindside risks that occur when primary care healthcare insurance is run under the for-profit model.


I'm quite familiar with both . That said, I'm still not a champion of national plan. I prefer HSA plan, where people can reward themselves for good choices, and have a good net for the unexpected. I believed that was the only hope for my kids and grandkids, but too many people don't believe that we should be able to take care of ourselves.


----------



## Desert Driver

Tx rides said:


> I'm quite familiar with both . That said, I'm still not a champion of national plan. I prefer HSA plan, where people can reward themselves for good choices, and have a good net for the unexpected. I believed that was the only hope for my kids and grandkids, but too many people don't believe that we should be able to take care of ourselves.


That's an interesting POV.


----------



## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> That's an interesting POV.


Oh, no doubt about it, I recognize that the current system is broken. But a lot of the damage to the system is because people don't want to pay for their actions or choices. I remember when it became a very popular trend to only pay $10 for a visit for a maternity check up, and pennies on the dollar for labor and delivery. Come on! It cost more than that to staff an office and hospital. I decided to start a family, why should it only cost $1000 or less for the entire nine months? Same applies to those who are morbidly obese, smoke, get no exercise, continue with their bad habits, even after they are under a doctors care, eating drinking in living in a lifestyle which is contraindicated by the treatment plan, resulting in yet more healthcare costs. Until people are willing to take some responsibility for their own decisions, we can never fix this system, because we need healthy people who make good choices paying in to help those who have cancer, birth defects, etc.


----------



## Desert Driver

Tx rides said:


> Oh, no doubt about it, I recognize that the current system is broken. But a lot of the damage to the system is because people don't want to pay for their actions or choices. I remember when it became a very popular trend to only pay $10 for a visit for a maternity check up, and pennies on the dollar for labor and delivery. Come on! It cost more than that to staff an office and hospital. I decided to start a family, why should it only cost $1000 or less for the entire nine months? Same applies to those who are morbidly obese, smoke, get no exercise, continue with their bad habits, even after they are under a doctors care, eating drinking in living in a lifestyle which is contraindicated by the treatment plan, resulting in yet more healthcare costs. Until people are willing to take some responsibility for their own decisions, we can never fix this system, because we need healthy people who make good choices paying in to help those who have cancer, birth defects, etc.


I've always admired the British feature of national healthcare in which if your lifestyle choices have led to a specific ailment, no coverage for you. The intended purpose was to get people to stop smoking and stop getting so goddamn fat. So, been smoking for 20 years and now you need a lung replaced? Fine...you're paying for it. Been morbidly obese for 20 years and you've been eating ay Wimpy's (British burger chain) three times a week? Fine...you're on your own for your diabetes care and your by-pass surgery.
I eat properly. I exercise frequently. I don't drink. I don't smoke. It's not that goddamn hard to make healthy choices - although I should probably get more sleep. Regardless of the country's insurance structure, it just amazes me how many people sign up for the long, slow, suicide plan with the choices they make. And whether it's nationalized healthcare or private insurance, the healthy, conscientious, well-informed blokes like me will always end up subsidizing the lazy and the stupid.


----------



## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> I've always admired the British feature of national healthcare in which if your lifestyle choices have led to a specific ailment, no coverage for you. The intended purpose was to get people to stop smoking and stop getting so goddamn fat. So, been smoking for 20 years and now you need a lung replaced? Fine...you're paying for it. Been morbidly obese for 20 years and you've been eating ay Wimpy's (British burger chain) three times a week? Fine...you're on your own for your diabetes care and your by-pass surgery.
> I eat properly. I exercise frequently. I don't drink. I don't smoke. It's not that goddamn hard to make healthy choices - although I should probably get more sleep. Regardless of the country's insurance structure, it just amazes me how many people sign up for the long, slow, suicide plan with the choices they make. And whether it's nationalized healthcare or private insurance, the healthy, conscientious, well-informed blokes like me will always end up subsidizing the lazy and the stupid.


If I saw a trend in this country where people, and politicians, would accept the rejection of coverage, I would have a different opinion. Until I see that political wind change, I stand opposed to national healthcare


----------



## Desert Driver

Desert Driver said:


> I've always admired the British feature of national healthcare in which if your lifestyle choices have led to a specific ailment, no coverage for you. The intended purpose was to get people to stop smoking and stop getting so goddamn fat. So, been smoking for 20 years and now you need a lung replaced? Fine...you're paying for it. Been morbidly obese for 20 years and you've been eating ay Wimpy's (British burger chain) three times a week? Fine...you're on your own for your diabetes care and your by-pass surgery.
> I eat properly. I exercise frequently. I don't drink. I don't smoke. It's not that goddamn hard to make healthy choices - although I should probably get more sleep. Regardless of the country's insurance structure, it just amazes me how many people sign up for the long, slow, suicide plan with the choices they make.





Tx rides said:


> If I saw a trend in this country where people, and politicians, would accept the rejection of coverage, I would have a different opinion. Until I see that political wind change, I stand opposed to national healthcare


It'll be here eventually in some form or another. However, the insurance lobby is currently the second most powerful lobby in D.C. so no real change or improvement is going to happen in your or my lifetime.


----------



## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> It'll be here eventually in some form or another. However, the insurance lobby is currently the second most powerful lobby in D.C. so no real change or improvement is going to happen in your or my lifetime.


Honestly, I see my people becoming more spoiled, not less so:-(


----------



## Desert Driver

Tx rides said:


> Honestly, I see my people becoming more spoiled, not less so:-(


Who are your people?


----------



## Lidman

Desert Driver said:


> I'd love to solicit his input, but the Mod said I'm not allowed to talk to him anymore.


 I love the debates between the hammer and the scrubber. Never a dull moment. The driverJ vs actionjax battles were also entertaining.


----------



## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> Who are your people?


My countrymen


----------



## Desert Driver

Lidman said:


> I love the debates between the hammer and the scrubber. Never a dull moment. The driverJ vs actionjax battles were also entertaining.


The scrubber kept coming at me and I kept destroying him and the Mod got to feeling bad for scrubber and told me to knock it off or get bounced.


----------



## Actionjax

Desert Driver said:


> The scrubber kept coming at me and I kept destroying him and the Mod got to feeling bad for scrubber and told me to knock it off or get bounced.


He has been quiet as of late. Something tells me he has moved on. Along with UberHammer. Not a peep out of either of them in a while.


----------



## Guest

Great convo! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## ber fine print

Problem #1 is to rely on what an uber employee tells you WHY WOULD YOU POSSIBLY THINK HE KNOWS WHAT HE`S TALKING ABOUT UBER PROTECTS IT`S OWN BEHIND THAT`S ALL THEY CARE ABOUT LET THEM PRODUCE UBERS INSURANCE POLICY THEN TAKE IT TO AN INSURANCE EXPERT AND THEN READ YOUR AGREEMENT WITH UBER AND THEN QUIT


----------



## UberRidiculous

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


The average life of an Uber Driver is shrinking with every rate cut. I imagine the average life of an Uberer on UPFN is much shorter. Your post should be started fresh at least once a month for new people. Excellent!


----------



## 49matrix

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


He would be the first Uber Corporate entity to have explained this with such clarity, however, basically making a mockery of Uber's claims to those driving and signing up to drive that it is OK to use your personal insurance and your personal license tag and leaving you to find the consequences thereof.
I have been driving for Uber for nearly 10 months and quickly found it behooved me to get commercial insurance, a For Hire tag and my own $1.5m liability policy. I was surprised to find that although more costly than driving the slippery slope that Uber sanctions, it is not that much more than my old personal insurance. I also found that I do not pay the $1/ride "safety scam" any longer as a commercial driver. Add that to the peace of mind that I am driving legally and without fear of my insurance being cut out from under me and I am happy driving for Uber. Yes, I am remaining profitable as an Independent contractor driving part time as a retirement job.


----------



## HoverCraft1

UberHustla said:


> It's never ok to lie (unless you're a Patriots fan, never admit that). I'm not saying to lie about anything. In the scenario I mentioned above, I never said to lie. I just said why would you bring up Uber to the cop or your insurance company if you didn't have to. Kind of like when you get in an accident and don't admit fault even if you knew it was your fault. why would you ever volunteer information that you don't have to?


Good Point! Most insurance companies instruct their insured's to "never admit fault" when exchanging info at a crash scene with other driver. Just exchange info and move on...


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

UberRidiculous said:


> The average life of an Uber Driver is shrinking with every rate cut. I imagine the average life of an Uberer on UPFN is much shorter. Your post should be started fresh at least once a month for new people. Excellent!


POST # 191/@UberRediculous: Bison's ex-
amination of Notables
Page makes Obvious that You'll be Waiting
at LEAST a week for "Wile E. Coyote"'s
next Thread/Post/peep.

Apparently his Penchant for "destroying"*
Opposing Members has Exceeded the
Forum Management's Tolerance. A VERY
Sad Day in that Notable Lidman and
Well-Known Adelaide, South Australians
unter ling and 
suewho are MIA as
well. Since this is Lidman 's 2nd Ban,
his Release likely will not be before the
11th of July.

*:https://uberpeople.net/posts/231332

Upset Bison, frustrated.


----------



## Icarus

Casuale Haberdasher

beloved bison

semper consuevisti, amicis


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Icarus said:


> Casuale Haberdasher
> 
> beloved bison
> 
> semper consuevisti, amicis


POST # 195 /Icarus : Bison is indeed
Honored for Such
Positivity from Bran'NU NUberer! Because
it's ONLY been 46 Years since B.B.'s last
Latin Class, I'm searching for an Accurate
Translation. Thank You, just the same!


----------



## harcosparky

Shea F. Kenny said:


> Why didn't you ask the question of what happens when the driver is not at fault?


Hope and pray that the "at fault" drive is insured, because it's on him!


----------



## Desert Driver

harcosparky said:


> Hope and pray that the "at fault" drive is insured, because it's on him!


Correct. If the at-fault driver (not Uber driver) is insured, then Uber driver makes claim on at-fault driver's insurance. If at-fault driver is not insured, Uber driver is ****ed.


----------



## UberRidiculous

Desert Driver said:


> Correct. If the at-fault driver (not Uber driver) is insured, then Uber driver makes claim on at-fault driver's insurance. If at-fault driver is not insured, Uber driver is ****ed.


Michigan is a no-fault state. Any understanding on that? In any non-rideshare accident, it doesn't matter who is at fault, your own insurance pays.


----------



## Desert Driver

UberRidiculous said:


> Michigan is a no-fault state. Any understanding on that? In any non-rideshare accident, it doesn't matter who is at fault, your own insurance pays.


But if you're driving Uber and your auto policy has a livery exclusion, you are driving without insurance.


----------



## Jtuno

UberHustla said:


> It's never ok to lie (unless you're a Patriots fan, never admit that). I'm not saying to lie about anything. In the scenario I mentioned above, I never said to lie. I just said why would you bring up Uber to the cop or your insurance company if you didn't have to. Kind of like when you get in an accident and don't admit fault even if you knew it was your fault. why would you ever volunteer information that you don't have to?


If you hit someone by accident (sorry, lol) you don't admit fault? I've rear ended someone in two separate occasions and both times I first asked if they were ok and then apologized and said let me give you my insurance. Both times they declined and said it was OK, no damage. Both times I said "do you want to take it just in case?" And both times they declined again. If I'm at fault I'm going to admit it just as I expect the other driver to admit it if they are at fault. Another time a car came in my lane and I swerved into a parked car with occupants. I apologized, called my insurance and told them I caused an accident and damaged someone's car and they paid to fix it. My insurance didn't go up. Why make an innocent persons life difficult?


----------



## harcosparky

UberRidiculous said:


> Michigan is a no-fault state. Any understanding on that? In any non-rideshare accident, it doesn't matter who is at fault, your own insurance pays.


Then it should be noted, in states such as Michigan and other " no-fault " states, what I said does not apply.

I guess there is one good reason, and only one for living in this place. ( Maryland )

I was hit from behind once ( in Maryland if you hit a car from behind, YOU are at fault no matter what ) and went to file a claim against the Insurance company of guy that hit me. His company told me that I had to contact my insurance company and I told them " according to Maryland law because your insured hit me from behind HE is at-fault and my insurer has nothing to do with this. " The call taker put me on hold, came back and said " I'll be happy to take your claim. "


----------



## Desert Driver

Jtuno said:


> If you hit someone by accident (sorry, lol) you don't admit fault? I've rear ended someone in two separate occasions and both times I first asked if they were ok and then apologized and said let me give you my insurance. Both times they declined and said it was OK, no damage. Both times I said "do you want to take it just in case?" And both times they declined again. If I'm at fault I'm going to admit it just as I expect the other driver to admit it if they are at fault. Another time a car came in my lane and I swerved into a parked car with occupants. I apologized, called my insurance and told them I caused an accident and damaged someone's car and they paid to fix it. My insurance didn't go up. Why make an innocent persons life difficult?


Rule #1: Never admit fault. Period. Read you insurance card.


----------



## UberHustla

Jtuno said:


> If you hit someone by accident (sorry, lol) you don't admit fault? I've rear ended someone in two separate occasions and both times I first asked if they were ok and then apologized and said let me give you my insurance. Both times they declined and said it was OK, no damage. Both times I said "do you want to take it just in case?" And both times they declined again. If I'm at fault I'm going to admit it just as I expect the other driver to admit it if they are at fault. Another time a car came in my lane and I swerved into a parked car with occupants. I apologized, called my insurance and told them I caused an accident and damaged someone's car and they paid to fix it. My insurance didn't go up. Why make an innocent persons life difficult?


So you will admit to your insurance company that you work for Uber, and you also will admit fault against your insurance companies instructions when there is an accident?

How do you find time to Uber in between walking old ladies across the street and cooking for soup kitchens?


----------



## 49matrix

Desert Driver said:


> But if you're driving Uber and your auto policy has a livery exclusion, you are driving without insurance.


The only way you can drive for Uber with any kind of security about your insurance is to get a commercial policy. Uber explains who covers whom and when but they fail to mention that driving on private policies and having an accident with a rider on board is opening a bigger can of whoop ass than you will want to deal with. They lie by omission and as such skirt the law if not actually breaking it. CYA and read the small print.


----------



## Desert Driver

49matrix said:


> The only way you can drive for Uber with any kind of security about your insurance is to get a commercial policy. Uber explains who covers whom and when but they fail to mention that driving on private policies and having an accident with a rider on board is opening a bigger can of whoop ass than you will want to deal with. They lie by omission and as such skirt the law if not actually breaking it. CYA and read the small print.


Correct. Driving for Uber without a commercial livery policy is a fool's errand. I would never engage in that foolishness.


----------



## ATX 22

Desert Driver said:


> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.


Horrible advice. Failure to disclose constitutes fraud, whether the insurance company asks or not. You should absolutely ask your insurance company if they have any insurance packages that include "rideshare" coverage before you make the decision to activate and drive for any TNC.


----------



## ATX 22

UberHustla said:


> It's never ok to lie (unless you're a Patriots fan, never admit that). I'm not saying to lie about anything. In the scenario I mentioned above, I never said to lie. I just said why would you bring up Uber to the cop or your insurance company if you didn't have to. Kind of like when you get in an accident and don't admit fault even if you knew it was your fault. why would you ever volunteer information that you don't have to?


Lying by omission is still lying.


----------



## Desert Driver

ATX 22 said:


> Horrible advice. Failure to disclose constitutes fraud, whether the insurance company asks or not. You should absolutely ask your insurance company if they have any insurance packages that include "rideshare" coverage before you make the decision to activate and drive for any TNC.


Well, actually, the best practice is to understand coverages and exclusions and to abide by them. Then purchase a livery policy.
Anything else I can clarify?


----------



## secretadmirer

Desert Driver said:


> Well, actually, the best practice is to understand coverages and exclusions and to abide by them. Then purchase a livery policy.
> Anything else I can clarify?


I can't think of anything at the moment.


----------



## UberHustla

ATX 22 said:


> Lying by omission is still lying.


You should take that up with your insurance company before there's an incident, they might be interested in the fact you're going to admit fault against their wishes. Since you seem to take full disclosure very seriously.


----------



## Bobby Somers

WOW 
VERY informative thread.
Thanks for the heads up everyone.
Looks like I won't be driving for Uber after all.


----------



## Desert Driver

Bobby Somers said:


> WOW
> VERY informative thread.
> Thanks for the heads up everyone.
> Looks like I won't be driving for Uber after all.


That's a solid decision. A person just creates too much risk for him/herself driving for Uber without a livery commercial insurance policy.


----------



## Realityshark

Thanks for posting this. I already did my homework so this is nothing new for me, however, this will hopefully prove to many the potential liabilities and risks that come from driving for Uber.


----------



## Desert Driver

Realityshark said:


> Thanks for posting this. I already did my homework so this is nothing new for me, however, this will hopefully prove to many the potential liabilities and risks that come from driving for Uber.


Once a person turns on their bullshit filter, the Uber recruiting line doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


----------



## Realityshark

Desert Driver said:


> Once a person turns on their bullshit filter, the Uber recruiting line doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


So true. And conversely, once a person has decided that driving for Uber is the best decision of their lives, they seem to refute any contradictory facts that are shown to them.


----------



## Desert Driver

Realityshark said:


> So true. And conversely, once a person has decided that driving for Uber is the best decision of their lives, they seem to refute any contradictory facts that are shown to them.


People who think they're earning money with Uber share two common traits:

They do not understand the time value of money.
They have no grasp of the true and real costs of operating a vehicle.


----------



## SteveNBham

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


Interesting because most health insurance policies contain an exclusion for work related injuries (i.e. workers compensation claims).

So it almost sounds like if you drive for Uber, one had better procure the following:

1). Commercial insurance
2). Workers Compensation insurance


----------



## SteveNBham

BostonMetro1oh2 said:


> Insurance companies offer livery coverage, why does everyone have to bend over backwards to accomodate uber, they are in clear voilation of many laws, they encourage drivers to commit fraud, why is this ok, why is the government not investigating this fraud? And are drivers enabling uber?


Most people like me - enjoy the freedom to work, make some extra coin, like helping others and meeting new people in the community where one lives. Insurance should never be in the business of dictating how people work. I got one quote for a commercial livery vehicle and it was $10,000! This shows how messed up and archaic the insurance industry is!

The problem is the insurance companies need to adapt or State legislatures need to pass laws making TNC companies insurance policies primary for periods 1, 2 and 3 or at a minimum make the drivers policy excess over Ubers insurance.


----------



## 14gIV

so what drivers should know whats covered and whats not.....sorry every driver knows its NOT WORTH driving for many reasons, but they all continue to drive lol


----------



## 49matrix

Desert Driver said:


> After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
> We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.
> 
> Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]
> 
> *Scenario*
> An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
> 
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.*​
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> *The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile. *​
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> *Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.
> 
> Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.*​
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
> *Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.*​
> As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
> 
> Be really careful out there.
> Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
> Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
> Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
> If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
> At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
> Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
> Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
> I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.


While I applaud the fact that you were able to actually speak to someone as highly placed within the Uber Organisation and get a candid explanation of Uber's coverage, I do have some real concerns:

- Mr Boedeker, while seeming to be a five star guy, did a good job of explaining the inadequacies of the Uber Liability Policy. If Uber wants independent contractors, using their own vehicles, to make money for them then the very least they can do is explain in simple terms these inadequacies and make every driver aware of the risks they are taking before they sign the contract. If, from the beginning, they were to stress the importance of Commercial Insurance drivers would not be inclined to participate once they realized the cost. There is still a measure of falsehood by omission and obfuscation used to entice drivers into a potentially hazardous means of making a living.

- Asking these same questions of Uber agents manning UBER SUPPORT prompted contrary statements and omissions that would lead a driver into feeling confident that they were adequately covered. I have the transcripts of these email exchanges but they would take up a lot of space, however, if you are interested I would happy to post them.

- Until reading this transcript of your conversation, nowhere in Uber's statements about insurance or caveats about driving for Uber did I read that Drivers should be carrying Commercial Insurance. This is an expensive insurance that would all but negate any profits I am making especially with the lower fare plans in effect. Nor was it made abundantly clear that damage to the "at fault" driver's vehicle was secondary to their personal insurance.

- My daughter works as an insurance adjuster for a major automobile insurance company in North Carolina and she recently attended a seminar on dealing with accidents involving TNC drivers. They have been instructed to look for all evidence within damaged vehicles that might indicate that the driver was operating commercially: Uber/Lyft signs, transponders for airports, any paperwork, liability insurance documents etc. Other insurance companies are following suit. Any information they find that may associate the driver with being a TNC will be sufficient cause to deny the claim and cancel the policy, REGARDLESS of whether you were driving for personal purposes. They cannot prove otherwise so they are assuming that you are breaking the terms of the policy by "driving persons for financial gain" (or whatever language they use.) Naturally it behooves you remove anything like this from your vehicle before it is removed from the site of an accident but one of the standard questions they will ask as part of their investigations will be "are you working for Uber/Lyft or commercially". It is not advisable to lie when asked this question.

- There are insurance companies experimenting with hybrid polices, I have spoken to most of them, and none of them have policies in North Carolina. This leads me to suspect that all TNC drivers operating in NC are violating the terms of their personal policy and are driving either illegally or at their own peril. By his own admission Mr Beodeker knows that *Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. *
He seems to have little regard for the drivers who find themselves in that position and, it is likely, that they will no longer be able to drive for Uber. I can only think that they know that there is plenty of "fresh meat" out there to fill the gaps.

My apologies to go on at length but, especially in NC, our hold on a way of making money by driving as a TNC is tenuous at best.


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