# NY court rules gig-drivers are 'employed'



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

https://tinyurl.com/yctt9qye


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

LOL, never ending....
Now how ‘bout a ruling on which came first: the chicken or the egg?


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> https://tinyurl.com/yctt9qye


When can I expect the Uber and Lyft stock price to drop?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

This ruling was first issued by the NYS UI board 2 years ago specifically for UI so really nothing new except another appeal loss. Last 2 years Uber has had to pay into UI to the state. However, to date only a few have actually successfully been able to collect unemployment.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> When can I expect the Uber and Lyft stock price to drop?


When the fed devalues the US dollar. Interest rates go to 20%. The price of gold and silver double or triple. When 60% of the population is on gov't cheese, and the 40% left over are being taxed anemic to pay for it. Unemployment goes to 30%. New York City, and the whole state of California go bankrupt. 
When all that happens ... Uber and Lyft will tank ... along with GM, CitiGroup, Boeing, US Steel, Chevron and a few others you may have heard of.

I estimate about two years we should see all this starting.

Be patient.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> When the fed devalues the US dollar. Interest rates go to 20%. The price of gold and silver double or triple. When 60% of the population is on gov't cheese, and the 40% left over are being taxed anemic to pay for it. Unemployment goes to 30%. New York City, and the whole state of California go bankrupt.
> When all that happens ... Uber and Lyft will tank ... along with GM, CitiGroup, Boeing, US Steel, Chevron and a few others you may have heard of.
> 
> I estimate about two years we should see all this starting.
> ...


2 years ? No its sooner then this ,
My predictions i am not a expert . Less then 12 months .
Credit cards home and car loans . To many defaults . All falling back into the big banks hands .
Its all a sinking ship. Its a bigger ship But once the water comes in from all sides it will sink very fast . 
So ny .They will give you crap insurance when driving . Car insurance you already have . 
Get ready to work for min wages there. You win the law suit . But lose earnings. Congrads 
If we get this 2000 stimulus check it will push that 12 months to 14 . But the virus thing could get better.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

kingcorey321 said:


> 2 years ? No its sooner then this ,
> My predictions i am not a expert . Less then 12 months .


Yea, twelve months, twenty four months ... it won't be like flipping a switch till you go to the bank and it's closed. Till we go to use our debit cards and it won't work many of us won't even know. It will be one or two news items a week. A slow trickle. 
Yes, first signs will be an increase in short term loan rates, then huge increases in auto loan defaults, and then ... foreclosures.



kingcorey321 said:


> They will give you crap insurance when driving .


You won't be driving. Nobody will need to go anywhere. Gas will be $10 a gallon.


kingcorey321 said:


> You win the law suit . But lose earnings


This law is not the problem - it is only a symptom.
It is socialism.


kingcorey321 said:


> If we get this 2000 stimulus check it will push that 12 months to 14


If we get the $2k, it will push it to 10 months instead of 12.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> I estimate about two years we should see all this starting.


You are such a ray of sun shine today. Got a lump of coal in your xmas sock?


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

SHalester said:


> You are such a ray of sun shine today. Got a lump of coal in your xmas sock?


At least he got something .


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

kingcorey321 said:


> At least he got something .


I got PJ's, a heated beanie (no kidding).


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

SHalester said:


> You are such a ray of sun shine today. Got a lump of coal in your xmas sock?





kingcorey321 said:


> At least he got something .


Yea, I got the same thing I got last year.
A new shirt and a piece of asss ... they both too big.



SHalester said:


> I got PJ's, a heated beanie (no kidding).


Is it battery operated?
Be careful you don't get it wet ... you may end up doing some electro-shock therapy -- wait, that may not be a bad thing.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> Is it battery operated?


idk. Haven't checked it out yet. Wife unit said something about 'charging'. I saw wires, and just put it back in it's package. Someday I'll take a look, but think this puppy will end up in the closet.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

SHalester said:


> idk. Haven't checked it out yet. Wife unit said something about 'charging'. I saw wires, and just put it back in it's package. Someday I'll take a look, but think this puppy will end up in the closet.


Re-gift it.
I bet there's a few who attend this very forum who you'd like to see get some electro-shock therapy?

Except for me .. of course.
I play with 220 all day long.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

SHalester said:


> idk. Haven't checked it out yet. Wife unit said something about 'charging'. I saw wires, and just put it back in it's package. Someday I'll take a look, but think this puppy will end up in the closet.


Guessing the wife unit bought herself a special toy.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

SHalester said:


> I got PJ's, a heated beanie (no kidding).


Let us know how well the heated beanie thing works. Sounds interesting, though a bit over-kill here in 50 degree California.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

SHalester said:


> I got PJ's, a heated beanie (no kidding).


The beanie is probably designed to deliver a fatal dose of amperage. Are you highly insured with life insurance? Maybe she figured out you're worth more dead than alive! Not to pry but do you have a million dollar life insurance policy? Probably shouldn't put the beanie on!

She's probably already rehearsed what she tells the EMT's when they show up.
EMT: What happened?
Wife: He made these homemade beanies he was going to sell on eBay!
EMT: He's dead! Looks like he electrocuted himself.
Wife: Yeah I told him it didn't look safe and not to put it on but he insisted!
EMT: Oh ok you tried to stop him. Don't worry we will clear the body out of here in no time and you can enjoy the rest of your holiday!


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> https://tinyurl.com/yctt9qye


Yes Mr.Higgins, I can imagine such a job, but unfortuately, these "gig" jobs don't meet your hypothetical job description.

Higgins is trying to steer the readers to his point of view, even if it means creating a false portrait of "gig" work.

Either he didn't do his homework or he's lying.

If what he said about the NY Court of Appeals is correct, they didn't do THEIR homework.

Higgins' claim that "nobody would ever penalize" drivers for declining work offers or for BACKING OUT OF (cancelling) trips that were accepted is FALSE.

If he had actaully done his homework, he would have discovered that MANY drivers have been FIRED over the years for "backing out" of what the companies considered "too many" trips.

A DD driver who falls below 80% completion rate is at a high risk of being fired. Lyft is also very strict about cancellations.

Declining work offers brings it's own forms of punishment including constant time-outs and even long periods of time without work offers during busy periods.

Low acceptance rates used to be grounds for firing drivers but that practice is mostly gone. (Doordash's contract has a clause buried deep that states that "unusually low" acceptance rates is a possible indicator of FRAUD.) That's DD's escape clause.

If you click the links inside the article, you'll find other dubious gigwork articles he's written.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

People who can work for home are already fleeing NYC California and other places for cheaper places to live.

(i've run into some of these people in Orlando-ish)

I have a feeling that NYC and California's governments are going to crash when the tax payers all leave property values tank and the only people who are left are the welfare cases..


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> You won't be driving. Nobody will need to go anywhere. Gas will be $10 a gallon.


Good!!! Finally we'll get rid of all the assholes on the roads. 

On the other hand... If I would've gotten even a dollar every time I've heard the same line "gas will soon be 5/6/8/10 or what ever bucks a gallon", I'd have a lot of dollars. -o:



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> People who can work for home are already fleeing NYC California and other places for cheaper places to live.


And that's why we the damn wall in Texas!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Seamus said:


> The beanie is probably designed to deliver a fatal dose of amperage. Are you highly insured with life insurance? Maybe she figured out you're worth more dead than alive! Not to pry but do you have a million dollar life insurance policy? Probably shouldn't put the beanie on!
> 
> She's probably already rehearsed what she tells the EMT's when they show up.
> EMT: What happened?
> ...


Except for one thing ... it will be an Uber EMT.
The ping went to an immigrant from Ethiopia who passed a twenty hour, on line course on "EMT for Dummies" and got his certificate and took the ping because he was on a quest to make an extra $20 for taking calls for 100 hours straight without a break. 
So, yea, I can see your scenario playing out.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> People who can work for home are already fleeing NYC California and other places for cheaper places to live.
> 
> (i've run into some of these people in Orlando-ish)
> 
> I have a feeling that NYC and California's governments are going to crash when the tax payers all leave property values tank and the only people who are left are the welfare cases..


820k people have left N.Y. in 2020. Huge number. I am currently building a home in Florida that is under construction and should be completed in March.

My current property tax bill in NY (Westchester County) = 24k. My estimated taxes on my brand new home in Florida = $3.5k. Any more need to be said?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> https://tinyurl.com/yctt9qye


Very low quality journalism. This is an opinion piece presented by the publisher as a news article.

The premise of the article is that, because the New York court did not consider the same criteria as the author (_"show up for work when you feel like it, and when you do show up, you can refuse to do any task you don't feel like doing"_) in order to evaluate workers' employee vs. contractors status, the court's findings are therefore "inexplicable".

This is childish and naive. An analogy would be:

Person A beats person B's son. Person B then beats Person A's son in retaliation. Person B is tried and convicted. Person B says that he was operating under Old Testament law of "an eye for an eye" and is therefore innocent, and because the court did not use the same criteria that he used then the court's decision is "inexplicable" and invalid. Yeah...... that's not the way it works.

The court assessed the evidence and interpreted the criteria specified by New York employment law in reaching its decision. This article would actually have been useful if it gave us a summary of what NY employment law is on the matter, and the evidence presented by both sides so that we could form an opinion as to whether the court applied the law correctly in this case.

Instead of the babyish, "the court didn't agree with me, therefore it's wrong" approach. &#127868; Maybe the court's decision was legally sound; maybe it wasn't. However this article does nothing to shed any light on it.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Seamus said:


> 820k people have left N.Y. in 2020. Huge number. I am currently building a home in Florida that is under construction and should be completed in March.
> 
> My current property tax bill in NY (Westchester County) = 24k. My estimated taxes on my brand new home in Florida = $3.5k. Any more need to be said?


Just don't try to to uber down here bro,

Out of curiousity what part of Florida?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Just don't try to to uber down here bro,
> 
> Out of curiousity what part of Florida?


Indian River County.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> all leave property values tank


oh, you funny. Most who are leaving calif, RENT. And those who do own and sell, that house sells quickly. Opposite side of SF Bay real estate is RED RED RED hot. From listing, to pending in less than a week DURING the school year.

Those leaving calif: Buh bye, take your car(s) with you. I'll wave at them from the border.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Seamus said:


> The beanie is probably designed to deliver a fatal dose of amperage. Are you highly insured with life insurance? Maybe she figured out you're worth more dead than alive! Not to pry but do you have a million dollar life insurance policy? Probably shouldn't put the beanie on!
> 
> She's probably already rehearsed what she tells the EMT's when they show up.
> EMT: What happened?
> ...


Wife: Mubbling under her breath., What he gets for thinking of me as a Unit.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Wife: Mubbling under her breath., What he gets for thinking of me as a Unit.


Cut off his allowance.
That'll learn him.


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## Ignatowski (Mar 23, 2019)

Seamus said:


> EMT: Don't worry we will clear the body out of here in no time and you can enjoy the rest of your holiday!


They're helpful if you're alive; not so helpful if you're dead. At an office job once, a coworker dropped dead. Someone called 9-1-1. EMT showed up and said "Sorry, he's dead. You'll have to call the coroner." The manager called the coroner, who said "I'm booked; I'll be out tomorrow." The idiot manager didn't think he had the power to send everyone home and close the office; people were trying to take the long route around cubicles, and to use bathrooms on other floors to avoid having to step over him. I just left.


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## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Now no more working when you want to work


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Very low quality journalism. This is an opinion piece presented by the publisher as a news article.
> 
> The premise of the article is that, because the New York court did not consider the same criteria as the author (_"show up for work when you feel like it, and when you do show up, you can refuse to do any task you don't feel like doing"_) in order to evaluate workers' employee vs. contractors status, the court's findings are therefore "inexplicable".
> 
> ...


The biggest problem with the article is that the writer presented factually incorrect info to the readers about what rideshare drivers are allowed to get away with and used that as "evidence" to show that the court made a bad ruling.

He claimed the court made their ruling despite its "agreement" with the rideshare 
job "facts" he presented. If that's the case, the court failed to do their homework in the same way the writer failed to (assuming the writer isn't lying about what he knows).

If the court failed to do their homework, that's a serious issue that goes way beyond this particular case.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Ignatowski said:


> They're helpful if you're alive; not so helpful if you're dead. At an office job once, a coworker dropped dead. Someone called 9-1-1. EMT showed up and said "Sorry, he's dead. You'll have to call the coroner." The manager called the coroner, who said "I'm booked; I'll be out tomorrow." The idiot manager didn't think he had the power to send everyone home and close the office; people were trying to take the long route around cubicles, and to use bathrooms on other floors to avoid having to step over him. I just left.


Yea, Minneapolis.
You guys are becoming the San Francisco of the mid-west.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Indian River County.


When you want to go out for a night on the town go to the tourist areas at the coast

But my opinon on uber/lyft here stands. You'll make a fraction of what you made elsewhere in the country while driving a lot more miles in the process.

That's florida...

I'm averaging 300 miles per day I rent a taxi and make less than $1.25 a mile in revenue. And i'm getting 3 1/2- 4 1/2 uberX... Convert that to the uber equivalent and all you'll do is drive yourself into the poorhouse one broken watchamacallit at a time.

You'll probably get 20-25% more than Orlando rates, if i remember right it's 60c a mile paid to you. So if you drive someone 30 miles that should get you like... $20?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> When you want to go out for a night on the town go to the tourist areas at the coast
> 
> But my opinon on uber/lyft here stands. You'll make a fraction of what you made elsewhere in the country while driving a lot more miles in the process.
> 
> ...


I deleted Lyft in March 2019 and I stopped taking Uber Pax in September 2019 when they eliminated the multiplier surge. This is supplemental income for me.  Used to Uber XL and X the drunk shift 8pm to 4am Fri and Sat when you could make $350 each night with the multiplier. The day they took the multiplier away was the last Pax I've ever driven. Never going to drive a Pax at Uber base rates!

Since then I've done food delivery only, DD,GH, and UE. My house will be 10 minutes from the beach so I'll dabble with food delivery when I'm down there. I'm too young to retire yet, but I'm retiring very young and going to be a snowbird in a few years. Until then I'm a visitor. I plan on getting the lay of the land with Food Delivery.


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## HonkyTonk (Oct 27, 2019)

WE SHOULD JUST BORROW MONEY FOREVER!!! As a nation, borrow, borrow, borrow. Immediate gratification, and we dump the burden on the youngsters.
Anyone who believes otherwise is racist, sexist, xenophobic, and filled with hate.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Seamus said:


> 820k people have left N.Y. in 2020. Huge number. I am currently building a home in Florida that is under construction and should be completed in March.
> 
> My current property tax bill in NY (Westchester County) = 24k. My estimated taxes on my brand new home in Florida = $3.5k. Any more need to be said?


7% Sales Tax :thumbup:

0% State Income Tax :thumbup:


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

People thinking the whole system is going to collapse is probably right but what going to happen is that they are going to just print more dollars out and were all good again for another decade :biggrin: But when they can't do it anymore it's going to cause a global great depression and even China going to suffer but they'll probably pull out of it faster as their people are living in poverty conditions right now for the majority so just be another day to them.

The western countries 1st world countries that grew up with all the bells & whistles are going to take a long time to adjust living in the great depression era that is going to come but not in the 2020s perhaps in the 2030s as they can keep on rolling out the $$$ as long as people have faith in the ultimate dollar it'll keep on going until well people lose faith in the dollar and overnight it'll be worth less then well toilet paper.

You know things are getting bad when they start circulating these notes around and it becomes mainstream.









In the future a gallon of gas going to be one trillion dollars :coolio:

"The Great Depression was a severe worldwide economic depression that took place mostly during the 1930s, beginning in the United States. The timing of the Great Depression varied across the world; in most countries, it started in 1929 and lasted until the late 1930s."

It is a once in a hundred year event and were coming pretty close to it been due time. Got at least another decade or so to live the good life. :thumbup: It a great reset of the world economy where everything corrects itself of course the rich are going to survive and maintain their status and lifestyle up in their ivory towers. The rest of the plebs? Who knows. I guess you can look back in history how they managed to survive during that period.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

History has a way of repeating itself. Will WW3 happen in 2040 ? Will the Military Industrial Complex raise once again ? In the age of computers and AI will ? ... Instead of Nukes, will Alien tech be bought forth to bare?


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> History has a way of repeating itself. Will WW3 happen in 2040 ? Will the Military Industrial Complex raise once again ? In the age of computers and AI will ? ... Instead of Nukes, will Alien tech be bought forth to bare?


History been repeating itself over and over again for tens of thousands of years. I don't see anything really changing but if everyone fires off nukes that could be the end of humankind though. The planet will survive on and some other species will take over after the nuclear winter clears up and the radiation clears up thousands of years later.

The next great depression could start off a world war 3 to pull out of another great depression but that could effectively end life as we know it too. Got weapons in the 21st centuries that far more effective then what they had some hundred years ago.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Immoralized said:


> The next great depression could start off a world war 3 to pull out of another great depression but that could effectively end life as we know it too. Got weapons in the 21st centuries that far more effective then what they had some hundred years ago.


Ya that is what I was getting at. However I think, or hope there maybe an Extra terrestrial intervention to prevent total nukes. But who knows, as that idea is unconscionable for most.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Ya that is what I was getting at. However I think, or hope there maybe an Extra terrestrial intervention to prevent total nukes. But who knows, as that idea is unconscionable for most.


Don't think ET is going to care too much if they are a space faring race with advance tech. They'll most likely view us in the same way we view chimps and orangutans and we've pretty much killed them to near extinction. They be more likely waiting for us to kill ourselves off so they can move in and rehab/terraform the planet with their advance tech after we've gone.

However they will probably intervene if there is any risk that the planet might get destroyed or it be impossible to rehab the planet. That the only way I see that they would do anything. Not because dumb apes are killing each other on the planet.
Have to look at it as ants. Do humans care about ant lives? Nope.

The next decade and the decade after that going to be very interesting times. Over 140s million people born every year and increasing to 50s million dying every year.

"The world's population is projected to reach 8.5 billion by 2030, 9.7 billion by 2050 and exceed 11 billion in 2100, with India expected to surpass China as the most populous around seven years from now and Nigeria overtaking the United States to become the world's third largest country around 35 years from now, according to a new United Nations report released today.

Moreover, the report reveals that during the 2015-2050 period, half of the world's population growth is expected to be concentrated in nine countries: India, Nigeria, Pakistan, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Tanzania, the United States, Indonesia and Uganda."

Yeah you read that right. Just in this decade India is going to surpass China in population.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

the US government is going to be paying interest on loans for the rest of time, unless we evolve as a society and throw away the concept of money, discover how fundamentally stupid that idea is, then go back to the good old days of corporate greed, with a blank debt slate...
Truth be told most of the US debt is held by social security and other pension funds. So they are counting on a constant growth of population to keep that from collapsing.

Back in the day the Unicorn land was financially tied to Atlantis as they went through the same problem. They loaned cash to Atlantis to balance their budget. One day the Atlanteans just came out and said "we don't beleive in money anymore"

Sure we COULD have started a war, but those idiots destroyed themselves and then we picked over the rubble and took in their scientists, thinkers, and rich people who had piles of money in our banks already...

Well.. needless to say unicorn land still exists and Atlantis is long gone.

And for the record, Unicorn land's currency is backed with the land held by the Royal Family. It's also made out of this worthless platinum garbage, you can't go 3 feet underground without running into the stuff so they made coins out of it....


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## bistander (May 15, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> LOL, never ending....
> Now how 'bout a ruling on which came first: the chicken or the egg?


Well the egg had to come from somewhere, if it was not from a chicken then we have a lot to worry about.
Then again maybe the egg came from outer space


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## 208476 (Nov 15, 2020)

Uber's Guber said:


> LOL, never ending....
> Now how 'bout a ruling on which came first: the chicken or the egg?


The egg came first, there would be no chicken with out the egg.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

bistander said:


> Well the egg had to come from somewhere, if it was not from a chicken then we have a lot to worry about.
> Then again maybe the egg came from outer space





franksoprano said:


> The egg came first, there would be no chicken with out the egg.


The rooster came first.
End of story.


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## Kevin7889 (Dec 10, 2015)

Uber's Guber said:


> LOL, never ending....
> Now how 'bout a ruling on which came first: the chicken or the egg?


Probably chicken...kinda like saying who came first...parent or child



Uber's Guber said:


> The rooster came first.
> End of story.


That's what she said


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> The rooster came first.


NOT this rooster.
That's why I always get invited back.

Hen's first.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> NOT this rooster.
> That's why I always get invited back.
> 
> Hen's first.


Leave them hens alone, they're trying to lay eggs.
And stay away from those sheep! &#128518;:laugh:


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