# Corporate taxes



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

I have a question about Taxes paid by Uber and Lyft. I hope some of you have knowledge about the structure of Corporate taxation.
This concerns Lyft because that is my source of information. However, I am guessing that Uber falls into the same category.

My data starts at July 18, 2016 - Lyft's cut was a flat 25% of my earnings and the report sheet stated LYFT FEES $ xyz

On January 1, 2018, -- Lyft's cut jumped to between 40% to 65% of my earnings and the report sheet now reads 
LYFT PLATFORM FEE & SERVICE FEE
The Service Fee is $2.30 per person for shared rides ( if two people are picked up in shared , Lyft get $4.60 ) . A flat $2.30 for regular Lyft.

*My Question -- Did changes in Trumps tax program open the door for Lyft - and probably Uber - to take a higher cut from our earnings ?? *

I find it very strange that the changes did not take place until January 1, 2018.

One thing I know for sure -- I have looked and compared trips of the same distance , outside of bonus times, and there is absolutely no consistency in the amount the pax pays, the amount we earn and the amount Lyft takes for their cut. Trips where we are given a tip seem to vary greatly in the amount that the driver is paid.
The only consistent figure is the Service Fee of $2.30. When Lyft claims that they lose money on some trips, they are talking about the Platform Fee, I looked at 130 trips and none were losses of over $-2.18. Most were in the $-.20 to $-.40 range. Since the Service fee is a minimum of $2.30, Lyft losses nothing on the trip, if you add the Platform Fee and the Service Fee. This looks like an accounting trick to me. A certain dollar amount of trips may show a negative value (loss).


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Your Quiry is well above my pay grade,
However:
*The IRS believes many Uber and Lyft drivers cheat on their taxes, and it wants Congress to help crack down*​
https://www.rollcall.com/news/tax-man-may-coming-uber-lyft-drivers


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

RabbleRouser said:


> I don't know the answer to ur inquiry.
> However:
> The IRS believes many Uber and Lyft drivers cheat on their taxes, and it wants Congress to help crack down
> 
> https://www.rollcall.com/news/tax-man-may-coming-uber-lyft-drivers


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How can we under report earnings ? U/L have the records and I rarely get a cash tip. Now I can see exaggerating expenses but this report is talking about earnings. Why doesn't Congress spent time on setting operating restrictions on U/L and requiring them to pay the drivers fairly ??


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

KK2929 said:


> ------------
> 
> How can we under report earnings ? U/L have the records and I rarely get a cash tip. Now I can see exaggerating expenses but this report is talking about earnings. Why doesn't Congress spent time on setting operating restrictions on U/L and requiring them to pay the drivers fairly ??


I'm Confident the Main problem is Uber Drivers accepting Tax & Financial Advise from Other Uber Drivers​
"Death & Taxes"
Well, here cometh the Tax Man


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> How


I think you'll have a better shot at maximizing your deductions instead of trying to cheat the tax man, because as we all know it they'll come knocking sooner or later.



KK2929 said:


> Why doesn't Congress spent time on setting operating restrictions on U/L and requiring them to pay the drivers fairly ??


You make it sound like Congress is there for your benefit and well being. Politics is a lot dirtier than that and Uber/Lyft have managed to skirt all the laws and regulations thanks to their lobbying. Change is going to take some time, if ever.

Bottomline is try to utilize your deductions, keep track of your logs, and have a good accountant on speed dial should things seem like they're going to go south.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

KK2929 said:


> I have a question about Taxes paid by Uber and Lyft. I hope some of you have knowledge about the structure of Corporate taxation.
> This concerns Lyft because that is my source of information. However, I am guessing that Uber falls into the same category.
> 
> My data starts at July 18, 2016 - Lyft's cut was a flat 25% of my earnings and the report sheet stated LYFT FEES $ xyz
> ...


Uber and Lyft doesn't follow laws so no.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> I have a question about Taxes paid by Uber and Lyft. I hope some of you have knowledge about the structure of Corporate taxation.
> This concerns Lyft because that is my source of information. However, I am guessing that Uber falls into the same category.
> 
> My data starts at July 18, 2016 - Lyft's cut was a flat 25% of my earnings and the report sheet stated LYFT FEES $ xyz
> ...


I thought Lyft mimics everything Uber does? If they do, then Lyft is not taking 50% of your earnings, they are paying you distance and time on a set scale.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> ------------
> 
> How can we under report earnings ? U/L have the records and I rarely get a cash tip. Now I can see exaggerating expenses but this report is talking about earnings.


Because Uber and Lyft like many app based companies, consider themselves nothing more than "payment processors". Therefore, subject to those rules they only issue a 1099k if you generate more than 20 thousand in revenue. If you generate less than that, you do not get a 1099k just an "income summary".

The IRS only knows that you got money from U/L if they were sent a 1099k. Otherwise, they don't know. There are some people who do not report their U/L income on their taxes if they didn't get a 1099k cause they think they won't get caught. Some want to lower the threshold amount that they must send a 1099 to you and the IRS.

Its foolish to not report the income because you can legitimately write off most of the revenue anyway.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Uber and Lyft doesn't follow laws so no.


I "think" it's the opposite.
Utilizing tax attorneys, cpa and specialist, Corporations follow the tax laws
And tax laws Favor big corporations And the wealthy with many loopholes.

Let's face it, We poor & middleclass Vote, 
? BUT ?Big Business and the wealthy Elect congress?
And congress makes the laws.

Kinda simple


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> I "think" it's the opposite.
> Utilizing tax attorneys, cpa and specialist, Corporations follow the tax laws
> And tax laws Favor big corporations And the wealthy with many loopholes.
> 
> ...


What do you think corporations and big business are made of???? Ordinary people ? It kills me when people say things like that. Most corporations have the best jobs.

For example AT&T, Apple, Comcast, UPS, Sysco, Delta, etc. Are companies people try to stay with till retirement.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Because Uber and Lyft like many app based companies, consider themselves nothing more than "payment processors". Therefore, subject to those rules they only issue a 1099k if you generate more than 20 thousand in revenue. If you generate less than that, you do not get a 1099k just an "income summary".
> 
> The IRS only knows that you got money from U/L if they were sent a 1099k. Otherwise, they don't know. There are some people who do not report their U/L income on their taxes if they didn't get a 1099k cause they think they won't get caught. Some want to lower the threshold amount that they must send a 1099 to you and the IRS.
> 
> Its foolish to not report the income because you can legitimately write off most of the revenue anyway.


---------------------------
I just think that it is too coincidental that Lyft doubled their earnings cut on the same day that Trumps tax changes went into effect.
It is standard knowledge that the current government is pro-business. This change has put millions into L/U bank account.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> ---------------------------
> I just think that it is too coincidental that Lyft doubled their earnings cut on the same day that Trumps tax changes went into effect.
> It is standard knowledge that the current government is pro-business. This change has put millions into L/U bank account.


The part of the tax law I think you are referring to is the reduction in the corporate tax rate. I have worked for large corporations most of my adult life.

The truth about corporate taxes: (non political just factual)

The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, but large corporations pay next to nothing in federal income taxes. Google, Amazon, Silicon Valley, old industrial (GE) etc. etc. pay zero or next to zero in federal income taxes. They use legal loopholes to set up in countries with very low corporate tax rates (i.e. Ireland) and pass their income through foreign countries with low tax rates and therefore pay nothing or next to nothing in US federal income tax. This has been going on for a lot of years and has nothing to do with Trump, its called "offshoring".

Study after study shows that if the US lowered their corporate tax rate to approx 15% then it would no longer be worth it for large corporations to set up the legal channels to "offshore" their income resulting in a large increase in the amount of corporate taxes ACTUALLY collected by the US government. Ultimately what was passed only lowered it to approx 23% which still isn't enough to stop offshoring.

Again, none of this has anything to do with Trump (although he'd take credit if it worked)! Been going on forever. The fix is to either close all the loopholes (which both the Democrats and Republicans are too corrupt to attempt) or lower the corporate tax rate to approx 15% (which is portrayed as a tax cut for the rich). Since neither fix is likely to be implemented due to politics the current status quo of large corporations paying next to no US income taxes will continue.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I know why the IRS has their target set on uber drivers,

Namely they don't have any report able profit.

Some people are just reporting all their revenue as taxable profit (we've seen it here especially for part timers) then we have those who have massive loses on paper (anyone doing the math legit) then we have people in higher paying markets (with rates over $1.00 a mile paid).

The result is that of uber drivers,

Some lose money on paper,
Some make money on paper,
Some report all their revenue as profit.


So it LOOKS like there's a massive amount of tax cheats.



However that's not because of cheating that's because many uber drivers have no actual profit. (Orlando is a good example of this)

53.5c per mile plus 8c per minute -57.5c per mile results in a taxable profit of 3.5c-8c per loaded MINUTE doing uber here (profit per mile is irrelevant because the per mile rate is less than the tax write off.

4c per loaded minute on a 30 minute drive results in a taxable profit of $1.20

Now to get to the next ping if we have 2.5 unloaded miles at -57.5c a mile and that's $1.72 in additional writeoffs, completely wiping out the 30 minute drive they just gave and then a whole heck of a lot more.

The math is solid, it's impossible to turn a profit by IRS standards in many cities.

The reality is what city you are in has a BIGGER impact on how much you owe in taxes than how much you earn...

$1,000 annually in Seattle will net you a tax bill, $50,000 in Orlando won't (which would also take roughly 100 hours a week)


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> I thought Lyft mimics everything Uber does? If they do, then Lyft is not taking 50% of your earnings, they are paying you distance and time on a set scale.


------------------------
Set scale -- not true in my records. My sampling is a low number ( 130 trips ) but definitely shows what the percentage take is. If you do not believe me, check your own records. Lyft makes it EXTREMELY difficult to get this info.
Here is an example for you --- These trips were done in week of May 6, 2019

miles--- pax paid --- driver pay --- Lyft cut --- Platform fee--- Service fee
1.48 --- 3.55 ---------- 2.62 ----------- 0.93 ----------- -0.66------------- 2.30 ****
1.56 --- 3.92 ---------- 2.62---------- 1.30 ----------- -1.00 ----------- 2.30
1.49----- 3.74 ---------- 2.62 --------- 1.12------------ -1.18 ------------ 2.30 ****
1.68----- 5.80 --------- 2.62 --------- 3.18----------- 0.88------------ 2.30
1.62----- 5.80--------- 2.62 --------- 3.18----------- 0.88 ----------- 2.30 
8.01-----13.16 ------- 7.82 --------- 5.34------------ 3.04 ----------- 2.30 
8.54 ----15.49 ------- 11.69 -------- 3.80 ----------- 1.50------------ 2.30 
5.61---- 13.30 ------- 7.33 -------- 5.97------------ -0.93----------- 2.30
5.44 ----13.63-------- 9.31 -------- 6.95 ------------- 4.65----------- 2.30
5.46---- 9.49-------- 6.07 -------- 3.42 ------------- 1.12 ---------- 2.30
5.51---- 11.72 ------- 5.83 -------- 5.89 ----------- 3.59 ---------- 2.30

ALL FIGURES ARE FLAT FEES. NO BONUSES OR PRIME TIME

Note the stared trips. They are 0.01 miles difference but the pax pays less for the longer trip. However, trips # 4 & #5 are 0.06 miles difference but charges are exactly the same.
This is the type of inconsistencies that I see in all 130 trips that I logged. You compare longer trips of 8 miles or more and the figures are all over the place.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> ------------
> 
> How can we under report earnings ? U/L have the records and I rarely get a cash tip. Now I can see exaggerating expenses but this report is talking about earnings. Why doesn't Congress spent time on setting operating restrictions on U/L and requiring them to pay the drivers fairly ??


Idt uber and lyft report to the gov how much we made might have been the point..


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> ------------------------
> Set scale -- not true in my records. My sampling is a low number ( 130 trips ) but definitely shows what the percentage take is. If you do not believe me, check your own records. Lyft makes it EXTREMELY difficult to get this info.
> Here is an example for you --- These trips were done in week of May 6, 2019
> 
> ...


I don't do a lot of Lyft, they don't show the beak down like Uber does. Uber pays a flat rate. You get time and mileage base on your market. There are other variables, but the time and mileage are constant. It doesn't matter what uber charges the pax now, you get what you agreed to which is a flat rate for miles and time and any surge. In 2014, I got 80% of the fare, now I get $.70 a mile and $.28 a minute. If you go 5 miles and 15 minutes, you know what you are getting paid. If Uber charges $100 for that ride, they are not taking anything from you. Is it BS? Yeah, I want to go back to the 2014 rates and pay out percentage.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Their service fee is a flat rate. The other fee is simply the difference between what the pax paid and what you are contracted to be paid. They do not take a %. They estimate the amount if the trip that youll be paid and add whatever they want to it to make sure the trip is fully covered by the pax fee in case of sudden traffic, accidents, unknown road closures and traffic diversions. The more you drive or tge longer it takes, this second ammount going to them decreases. Thats why some drivers have mastered getting as much of that money as possible without getting deactivated. Its a fine line and if they figure out you are doing it, they will deactivate you. This has nothing to do with corporate taxes.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

NotanEmployee said:


> Their service fee is a flat rate. The other fee is simply the difference between what the pax paid and what you are contracted to be paid. They do not take a %. They estimate the amount if the trip that youll be paid and add whatever they want to it to make sure the trip is fully covered by the pax fee in case of sudden traffic, accidents, unknown road closures and traffic diversions. The more you drive or tge longer it takes, this second ammount going to them decreases. Thats why some drivers have mastered getting as much of that money as possible without getting deactivated. Its a fine line and if they figure out you are doing it, they will deactivate you. This has nothing to do with corporate taxes.


Yes, I love driving through a good surge if I am heading home and setting a DF. Once I get within a couple miles of my home area, turn off the DF, accept next ping with surge and Uber makes a negative amount every time.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> *My Question -- Did changes in Trumps tax program open the door for Lyft - and probably Uber - to take a higher cut from our earnings ?? *


I don't think anyone outside of the Lyft bigwigs could answer this.

My opinion is they started Jan 1st 2018 because they new during 2018 they wanted to go public and this was a way to decrease their losses before going public.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> I don't think anyone outside of the Lyft bigwigs could answer this.
> 
> My opinion is they started Jan 1st 2018 because they new during 2018 they wanted to go public and this was a way to decrease their losses before going public.


-------------------------
Interesting view. Uber is,also, involved. My figures of June , July, Aug 2016 show Uber taking 25%. I have no figures after those months but I would bet that the "Uber take " increased on the same day as Lyfts, which was Jan 1, 2018


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> *My Question -- Did changes in Trumps tax program open the door for Lyft - and probably Uber - to take a higher cut from our earnings ?? *
> 
> I find it very strange that the changes did not take place until January 1, 2018.


Your pay rate has nothing to do with taxes or Uber's earnings on each fare. You are paid solely on a set per minute/per mile basis. Your pay has no bearing whether Uber takes 99% or 1% of the total fare.

With regards to corporate taxes, both Lyft whose financials became public for the first time 3 weeks ago and Uber who opened the books for the first time today after market closing have both shown a significant loss of revenue and are not required to pay corporate taxes on losses.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Your pay rate has nothing to do with taxes or Uber's earnings on each fare. You are paid solely on a set per minute/per mile basis. Your pay has no bearing whether Uber takes 99% or 1% of the total fare.
> 
> With regards to corporate taxes, both Lyft whose financials became public for the first time 3 weeks ago and Uber who opened the books for the first time today after market closing have both shown a significant loss of revenue and are not required to pay corporate taxes on losses.


--------------------------
That looks real nice on paper. However, the fact is still there that on Dec. 31, 2017, they took a flat 25% of the total fare. On Jan. 1, 2018, their take jumped to 40% to 65%. It does not matter how L/U calculate to reach the fare amount, the issue here is the percentage they are raking and what was so magical about the date that it started.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> --------------------------
> That looks real nice on paper. However, the fact is still there that on Dec. 31, 2017, they took a flat 25% of the total fare. On Jan. 1, 2018, their take jumped to 40% to 65%. It does not matter how L/U calculate to reach the fare amount, the issue here is the percentage they are raking and what was so magical about the date that it started.


This is just simple business economics. Uber raised the costs of goods for the consumer (the pax) yet paid the same for the production (the drivers) of those goods.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> This is just simple business economics. Uber raised the costs of goods for the consumer (the pax) yet paid the same for the production (the drivers) of those goods.


----------------------
??? Your statement is not what happened. 
Since I am a past business owner, I understand that concept. U/L did not raise the cost to the consumer. This is the only example that I have EVER seen where the driver earnings are decreased to increase the income to the company. Unethical.


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