# MANDATORY TIPPING, in the time of COVID



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Great you get that tip and contract covid19 . Your sick at home able to fight it off with out help or your in the hospital prey to god you dont need a vent there are zero available and you dye. You did get that tip ! 
I have a tip. beg plead for money from friends or family so you can stay home for another month .
They may have stem cell help available to us in a month or so for critical patients .


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

kingcorey321 said:


> Great you get that tip and contract covid19 . Your sick at home able to fight it off with out help or your in the hospital prey to god you dont need a vent there are zero available and you dye. You did get that tip !
> I have a tip. beg plead for money from friends or family so you can stay home for another month .
> They may have stem cell help available to us in a month or so for critical patients .


People still need food/groceries delivered. Someone has to be moving around. Many heathcare and personal support workers have limited access to a personal vehicle or public transit. I'm not saying there needs to be 150,000 Ants on the Road, but the few who are taking said risks (hopefully responsibly so!) should be getting some benefit for doing so in these difficult times.


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## Gentle Ant (Mar 8, 2020)

Accepting a cash tip is the same as handling the packaging the food comes in to me. Same thing, an object that is handled by multiple people before it reaches me. Nothing is sterile so wash your hands and don't go licking any dollar bills.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Gentle Ant said:


> Accepting a cash tip is the same as handling the packaging the food comes in to me. Same thing, an object that is handled by multiple people before it reaches me. Nothing is sterile so wash your hands and don't go licking any dollar bills.


The answer is simple. Don't touch your face. It's ok to touch things as long as you are disinfecting regularly both your hands, and common touch surface (like steering wheel and door handles). You don't need a mask, it offers little protection (other than it prevents you from touching your face, but it gets exacerbated because you are touching/adjusting the mask more often due to sweating/moisture). Simply make a conscious effort not to touch your face, and to wash hands as frequently as possible. A small zip-lock tupperware container of soapy water in the trunk would prevent the need for hand sanitizer. Soap works better and is much cheaper and more availble. If you are doing delivery, have a hand-washing station in your trunk, and use it after each delivery. Gloves are only necessary to make customers 'feel safe' they are less useful than a handwashing station.


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## Gentle Ant (Mar 8, 2020)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> The answer is simple. Don't touch your face. It's ok to touch things as long as you are disinfecting regularly both your hands, and common touch surface (like steering wheel and door handles). You don't need a mask, it offers little protection (other than it prevents you from touching your face, but it gets exacerbated because you are touching/adjusting the mask more often due to sweating/moisture). Simply make a conscious effort not to touch your face, and to wash hands as frequently as possible. A small zip-lock tupperware container of soapy water in the trunk would prevent the need for hand sanitizer. Soap works better and is much cheaper and more availble. If you are doing delivery, have a hand-washing station in your trunk, and use it after each delivery. Gloves are only necessary to make customers 'feel safe' they are less useful than a handwashing station.


Yeah I agree. I'm saying I'm not going to *not* accept the cash tip because I'm afraid the money's dirty. Everything's dirty right now. It's unavoidable. so I was just saying make sure you practice good hygiene is all.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

I’m not generally in favor of mandatory tipping, but it would be a really quick policy fix to the lack of hazard pay. So I’m for it under these circumstances. 👍🏼

I think such a policy would need a lot of public explanation about why the policy exists, to actually serve the effect of increasing class solidarity, while speaking to the problems that drivers face currently.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

For someone to tip big , then take it back is so scummy I would hope they choke on corona . Not die , but just choke a little


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 447096
> 
> In the Toronto subform, there is a thread about InstaCart users that put a big juicy tip into the app, then retract that tip after delivery. You can imagine, this leaves drivers seething in rage. There is, very likely, a subset of drivers who will channel this rage into passive aggression, and the next customer may be hit with some undeserved punishment or substitution. The driver suffers. InstaCart's brand suffers. The gig economy suffers.
> 
> ...


Last night I ordered delivery from Postmates and added 25 percent on the app and because they delivered quickly, I added another $5.00 to express my thanks. 
Bye the way, I was wearing gloves and the driver had no gloves or mask on. I wish him well.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> People still need food/groceries delivered. Someone has to be moving around. Many heathcare and personal support workers have limited access to a personal vehicle or public transit. I'm not saying there needs to be 150,000 Ants on the Road, but the few who are taking said risks (hopefully responsibly so!) should be getting some benefit for doing so in these difficult times.


agreed . somebody needs to be shopping . 
I want to share a story . 
I go to kroger . They have the one way isles here Michigan the co19 is hitting us very hard many deaths here . I personally lost 3 friends from it. . Everybody is following the directions so we can social distance .
A employee was going the incorrect way . I jump in the middle of the row ask him ( why are you not going the correct way )
He tries to push past me . NOPE ! Go the other way ! He tells me to go to hell.
I talk with the manager The manager tells me to have sex with myself . In so many words . Hes not concerned about our safety .
I call the district manager 3 different transfers on hold for 1 hour 34 minutes. im now stuck at home bored any ways .
I kept moving up to bigger managers .
The reply from the dm is kroger was proud to be one of the first places to put these 1 way rows up and they spent a lot of time and money .
The dm was pissed off about my story . 
The dm assured me that blank and blank will no longer be working at the KROGER. 
I went back to kroger to buy coffee i drink it by the gallon thats a different story lol.
I talked to a cash register worker . Those 2 employees no longer work at kroger . 
Stay safe guys .
I want to add the co19 does not care about age race if your health is pore or not it might tear you down even thin healthy people that play sports can expire from it .


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

kingcorey321 said:


> agreed . somebody needs to be shopping .
> I want to share a story .
> I go to kroger . They have the one way isles here Michigan the co19 is hitting us very hard many deaths here . I personally lost 3 friends from it. . Everybody is following the directions so we can social distance .
> A employee was going the incorrect way . I jump in the middle of the row ask him ( why are you not going the correct way )
> ...


Damn I'm proud of you , out there defending all of us, do you also confront every driver that cuts you off? Only another 160 million out there that don't follow the rules , Correct em 1 at a time , were you wearing a mask ? If not that interaction may have just cost you your life , devils advocate


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## 68350 (May 24, 2017)

Instacart could rectify this by only allowing a certain % of deviation to be edited into the tip amount after delivery is completed. Say the software only allows a 20% decrease/increase to the original amount... that would deter an intial exorbitant (too good to be true) tip amount.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Increasing fees because of a crisis? That's called price gouging.

If the buyer wants to give a pre-tip on the blind, to award the driver for driving during the crisis, that's one thing.

Just because someone uses delivery service, doesn't mean they have money either. 
Just means they'll pay extra for delivery out of the fear or the higher risk they may have.

But Instacart allowing buyers to change it afterwards is pretty dirty.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

The whole problem with the delivery business is the business model which does not charge the proper amount to gather, pick up and deliver the items that is actually costs to provide that service and make a profit. This service costs money and not just anybody can do this and get the order correct and delivered safely and on time.

I applaud Door Dash for REQUIRING their customers to provide a tip when the order is placed. I turn down all orders that do not make economic sense. All of the delivery services should do the same thing and let the drivers decide if the order makes sense to do. If a customer wants to be a cheapskate and not tip much then the order can sit there until a newbie that doesn't know any better picks it up.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Get rid of tipping in favor of paying the driver a fair wage.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 447216
> 
> In the Toronto subform, there is a thread about InstaCart users that put a big juicy tip into the app, then retract that tip after delivery. You can imagine, this leaves drivers seething in rage. There is, very likely, a subset of drivers who will channel this rage into passive aggression, and the next customer may be hit with some undeserved punishment or substitution. The driver suffers. InstaCart's brand suffers. The gig economy suffers.
> 
> ...


My only problem with this from a customer stand point is I hate restaurants that auto tip and I purposely avoid them.

I always tip nice but like to base my tip off of the serviced received.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My only problem with this from a customer stand point is I hate restaurants that auto tip and I purposely avoid them.
> 
> I always tip nice but like to base my tip off of the serviced received.


That's how everyone should tip.


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## Bevital (Mar 9, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 447216
> 
> In the Toronto subform, there is a thread about InstaCart users that put a big juicy tip into the app, then retract that tip after delivery. You can imagine, this leaves drivers seething in rage. There is, very likely, a subset of drivers who will channel this rage into passive aggression, and the next customer may be hit with some undeserved punishment or substitution. The driver suffers. InstaCart's brand suffers. The gig economy suffers.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/peop...g-tips-and-then-changing-them-to-zero.392189/


Something similar is happening in Albuquerque, NM, with Grubhub/DoorDash and Uber Eats. Customers are using the free delivery options (coupons etc.) and ordering their food from a restaurant that it far away like Buffalo Wild Wings. Even though they know there are closer locations. Driver sees a $10 delivery, and if they don't look close, they don't see the distance to the recipient. Customer knows no one will take the $3 trip from the closer location


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Increasing fees because of a crisis? That's called price gouging.


We are past 'crisis' at this point, and heading into 'new normal' territory for a while. This is not gouging, this is the cost of doing business.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> View attachment 447216
> 
> In the Toronto subform, there is a thread about InstaCart users that put a big juicy tip into the app, then retract that tip after delivery. You can imagine, this leaves drivers seething in rage. There is, very likely, a subset of drivers who will channel this rage into passive aggression, and the next customer may be hit with some undeserved punishment or substitution. The driver suffers. InstaCart's brand suffers. The gig economy suffers.
> 
> ...


I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST mandatory tipping. It's tyranny. Tipping is a message between the customer and the service provider. Mandatory tipping destroys this intimate exchange, and creates resentment with customers, who will go to another service which doesn't impose mandatory tipping.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

Because of the shenanigans of the companies and some clients, I’m pretty much soured and jaded with the good gig economy. Nowadays, I’ll consider getting back into it, only when I’m absolutely desperate for cash; and right now, I’m getting by financially without participating in it.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

In my opinion, "mandatory tipping" is an oxymoron.

I get that many restaurants do it for large groups. I'm fine with that, as long as they make it really clear when they do it. Many do not, and they put a tiny little mention of it on the bill, hoping that diners will also add a tip on top of that service charge.

Instacart is free to do as they please. Just as their drivers and customers are as well.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> In my opinion, "mandatory tipping" is an oxymoron.


This is why some establishments prefer to call it a "service charge."


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

If the deliveries or rides paid better , the tips wouldn’t matter as much . I still can’t believe I grocery shopped for some lady on Postmates yesterday , 44 items. All specific fruits and vegetables . Ton of other weird crap. Took about 30 minutes . She lived 1 mile away so it sadly paid only $4. No tip.

I’m now very reluctant to do anything like that again without knowing what I’ll be paid. We should be paid $20 to walk in a store and shop for someone. What an ungrateful ***** . Maybe she was mad that Vons was out of paper towels ? Not my fault hag lady. I will be declining any more shopping orders. This isn’t the first time this has happened . Mask up and get your own damn groceries !


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## Gigworker (Oct 23, 2019)

Mandatory tipping is not tipping, it’s just a surcharge. It would be nice if Uber/Lyft added a surcharge of 20% during this pandemic. I don’t think anybody would complain.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

no on mandatory tipping but there are no surges here so it appears people are still driving. Since I may not get the 1200 and no unemployment I have gone back to work.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> We are past 'crisis' at this point, and heading into 'new normal' territory for a while. This is not gouging, this is the cost of doing business.


You are the one calling it "these challenging times", "these difficult times", so I can only assume you mean during this crisis, or as a result of this crisis, which is ongoing.

I know you're in Canada, but in California, for example,
(and states, as well as Canada, may have different laws):

_"Upon the proclamation of a state of emergency&#8230; and for a period of 30 days following that proclamation or declaration,* it is unlawful &#8230;to sell any consumer food items or goods, goods or services* used for emergency cleanup, emergency supplies, medical supplies, home heating oil, building materials, housing, transportation, freight, and storage services, or gasoline or other motor fuels _*for a price of more than 10 percent greater than the price charged by that person for those goods or services immediately prior to the &#8230; emergency."*

It may not "technically" be price gouging in some parts, but it certainly is the spirit of it.

Sure we all would like to make more money, especially if you feel like you're risking your life doing your job, more so than before, but increasing a service fee during a crisis is in effect, "price gouging," whether you call it a service charge, or hazard pay or whatever.

And using your analogy of a restaurant receiving a 20% "mandatory tip" aka service charge for a large group, is not comparable, since that occurs before/during/after a crisis. Now if you're asking the charge should be increased because of "these times", that too would be price gouging, or in the spirit of price gouging.

Buy yeah, receiving $4, and hoping for a tip, or worse, getting a tip and have it removed, to go shopping at a grocery store AND delivering the items, is definitely bad. But that also explains why I choose not to do it.


Gigworker said:


> It would be nice if Uber/Lyft added a surcharge of 20% during this pandemic.


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## BillC (Mar 5, 2017)

It will never happen as far as Uber is concerned. There is absolutely nothing Uber is more unlikely to do than to potentially raise rates for customers.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Demon said:


> Get rid of tipping in favor of paying the driver a fair wage.


Now that would be near impossible since U/L drivers vary. Some drive full time, day time only, night time only, part time, weekends, a few pick ups after work....how would administer this? Never happen. I can see a scale or higher rates but to blanket fair wages, you have to determine what fair wages would be for drivers. And besides, I like my tips* (at least I used to)*



Oscar Levant said:


> I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST mandatory tipping. It's tyranny. Tipping is a message between the customer and the service provider. Mandatory tipping destroys this intimate exchange, and creates resentment with customers, who will go to another service which doesn't impose mandatory tipping.


It's all about the marketplace.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Big Lou said:


> Now that would be near impossible since U/L drivers vary. Some drive full time, day time only, night time only, part time, weekends, a few pick ups after work....how would administer this? Never happen. I can see a scale or higher rates but to blanket fair wages, you have to determine what fair wages would be for drivers. And besides, I like my tips* (at least I used to)*
> 
> 
> It's all about the marketplace.


But you'd make more money earning a fair wage.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

I don't think Uber or Lyft are going to do anything that negatively effects their customers right now. One, because they need any business they can get and two, they don't want to be accused of gouging the public in a time of national crisis even though the drivers should be paid more for taking the risk of getting sick themselves while on the job.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

BillC said:


> It will never happen as far as Uber is concerned. There is absolutely nothing Uber is more unlikely to do than to potentially raise rates for customers.


But they WILL, lower pay rates for the drivers!


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## john2g1 (Nov 10, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST mandatory tipping. It's tyranny. Tipping is a message between the customer and the service provider. Mandatory tipping destroys this intimate exchange, and creates resentment with customers, who will go to another service which doesn't impose mandatory tipping.


You know what annoys me about statements like that?

When Uber/Lyft increases the "safe driver" fee to insure 100% background checks no one calls it tyranny. It's the cost of doing business.

Do you know why I drive during heavy rains and snowfall? Because:
A. I drive a more exspensive performance vehicle more capable than a Prius or Yaris
B. Because of the danger fewer drivers are out causing it to surge/PrimeTime
C. Because I am being compensated for the risk and increased cost of a more exspensive vehicle

If the increase price stops or is to low I stop driving.

Change the name from mandatory tip to increased risk driver pay. Call it a driver PPE fee or driver health and welfare fee.

It's not tyranny that Uber/Lyft XL is 2.5x the cost of UberX/Lyft it's the cost of business.

The gig economy is so cheap because everyone but the company is taking the risk responsibility and cost. Now days you can't even file suit against most gig companies.

So if pre COVID-19 $1 was fair during a pandemic $1.20 is still fair. And of course you can still tip if you want. The difference here is a legal one. Legally 100% of the tip must go to the person it is intended to go to.

Oh and one more thing can we stop with the price gouging talk. Here's the difference if a hurricane hits Louisiana and the cost of of water quadruples in Louisiana only that is price gouging.

If the entire planet has a crisis that causes clean drinking water to evaporate and the cost quadruples that IS NOT gouging. Now dirty water has to be cleaned (cost). Salt water has to be desalinated (cost).

We are currently in a world wide crisis and almost every aspect of life is affected


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

john2g1 said:


> When Uber/Lyft increases the "safe driver" fee to insure 100% background checks no one calls it tyranny. It's the cost of doing business.
> 
> Do you know why I drive during heavy rains and snowfall? Because:
> A. I drive a more exspensive performance vehicle more capable than a Prius or Yaris
> ...


Cool story, but you're trying to compare surging because it's raining with increasing fees during a pandemic(ie. price gouging)
You made it a point that you have an expensive car (twice LOL), but let's be real, that is not why you're driving during heavy rain and snow.
You're driving because it's surging and you're getting paid more. Period.



john2g1 said:


> It's not tyranny that Uber/Lyft XL is 2.5x the cost of UberX/Lyft it's the cost of business.
> 
> The gig economy is so cheap because everyone but the company is taking the risk responsibility and cost. Now days you can't even file suit against most gig companies.


Same tired response. Whah! It's not fair. Rider doesn't pay enough, Uber takes too much.
It's my car, my gas, my risk, blah blah blah.
Using the pandemic as an excuse and the reasoning to get paid more is not going to work.


john2g1 said:


> So if pre COVID-19 $1 was fair during a pandemic $1.20 is still fair.


Wrong.


john2g1 said:


> Oh and one more thing can we stop with the price gouging talk. Here's the difference if a hurricane hits Louisiana and the cost of of water quadruples in Louisiana only that is price gouging.


Wrong again.


john2g1 said:


> If the entire planet has a crisis that causes clean drinking water to evaporate and the cost quadruples that IS NOT gouging. Now dirty water has to be cleaned (cost). Salt water has to be desalinated (cost).
> 
> We are currently in a world wide crisis and almost every aspect of life is affected


Yes, if the cost of producing clean water goes up, then likely the end product to the consumer will go up.
But last I checked, a Spicy McChicken is still a dollar, and the price of gas has even dropped dramatically, so if there was an artificial increase in the price of delivery fees or goods during a national emergency, that's called price gouging.


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## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

That's why doordash is killing it. Leave a good tip and get great service, or don't and take your chances. Other delivery services and also rideshare should use this model as well.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Beninmankato said:


> That's why doordash is killing it. Leave a good tip and get great service, or don't and take your chances. Other delivery services and also rideshare should use this model as well.


Minutes ago, I turned down an 11.7 mile McDonalds pickup for $7.75

Maybe if they would have tipped $5 more, I would have taken it.


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## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Minutes ago, I turned down an 11.7 mile McDonalds pickup for $7.75
> 
> Maybe if they would have tipped $5 more, I would have taken it.


After years of driving around non tipping passengers I get a small joy by turning down those low-ball offers.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Yes, if the cost of producing clean water goes up, then likely the end product to the consumer will go up.
> But last I checked, a Spicy McChicken is still a dollar, and the price of gas has even dropped dramatically, so if there was an artificial increase in the price of delivery fees or goods during a national emergency, that's called price gouging.


Well the argument _can_ be made that the service Uber provides during this time is in much shorter supply vs. demand, and the risk of performing such services has gone up immensely.

Uber isn't providing the McChicken - that's McDonald's, and thus McDonald's cannot increase the price of McChicken's due to shorter supply of Uber drivers. But Uber certainly can increase fares, even during a pandemic, if they can logically and systematically prove it was done due to shorter supply and higher demand, as well as the risk to the drivers. That's reasonable and legal. Price freezes due to a disaster declaration go into effect to prevent companies from taking advantage of consumers. This would not apply.

Just playing devil's advocate here.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

john2g1 said:


> Change the name from mandatory tip to increased risk driver pay. Call it a driver PPE fee or driver health and welfare fee.


U/L are not going to raise their prices.

They weren't making a profit before this started. Nothing has changed in that regard.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

john2g1 said:


> You know what annoys me about statements like that?
> 
> When Uber/Lyft increases the "safe driver" fee to insure 100% background checks no one calls it tyranny. It's the cost of doing business.
> 
> ...


Call it something else, a fee of some kind, that's honest, but forced tipping, no.

The whole point of a tip is a voluntary exchange, it's a communication from customer to service provider, and, as such, the restaurant, cab co. whatever, should stay out of it. I know many places do this, but I'm against it, nevertheless.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> Call it something else, a fee of some kind, that's honest, but forced tipping, no.
> 
> The whole point of a tip is a voluntary exchange, it's a communication from customer to service provider, and, as such, the restaurant, cab co. whatever, should stay out of it. I know many places do this, but I'm against it, nevertheless.


I don't care what it is called. But it is a very pragmatic solution to a very difficult time. I don't think PAX would complain too much, as way fewer people are using the service these days.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Ubertool said:


> Damn I'm proud of you , out there defending all of us, do you also confront every driver that cuts you off? Only another 160 million out there that don't follow the rules , Correct em 1 at a time , were you wearing a mask ? If not that interaction may have just cost you your life , devils advocate


After i have now lost 4 of my friends that died from this virus I think that entitles me to post a thread in here and yell at a manager for not staying safe. No its not safe to go to a funereal there family elected to cremate them


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Well the argument _can_ be made that the service Uber provides during this time is in much shorter supply vs. demand, and the risk of performing such services has gone up immensely.
> 
> Uber isn't providing the McChicken - that's McDonald's, and thus McDonald's cannot increase the price of McChicken's due to shorter supply of Uber drivers. But Uber certainly can increase fares, even during a pandemic, if they can logically and systematically prove it was done due to shorter supply and higher demand, as well as the risk to the drivers. That's reasonable and legal. Price freezes due to a disaster declaration go into effect to prevent companies from taking advantage of consumers. This would not apply.
> 
> Just playing devil's advocate here.


What you and a few others can't seem to understand is, there is a distinction between a time of crisis vs "normal" time.

If Walmart had 1 bottle of hand sanitizer left on the shelf, surely demand is high and supply is low, so by your logic they could ask whatever price they want for it, even during a pandemic/disaster/national emergency, and it would be fine. Well, no. It's not.

Raising the price by adding a surge fee, for a ride after a concert is ok.
Raising the price by adding a fee/mandatory tip by delivering food, which was deemed essential, during a pandemic is not ok.
It's really not that hard to understand.

You, on one hand say, "Uber certainly can increase fares, even during a pandemic" but on the other hand also say "Price freezes due to a disaster declaration go into effect to prevent companies from taking advantage of consumers."
You just made an argument for both sides. Shows you're not logical.


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## REDcarpete (Aug 2, 2015)

Yam Digger said:


> This is why some establishments prefer to call it a "service charge."


They call it a service charge so they can split it among FOF and BOH employees and sometimes take a piece for the house. A gratuity must go to an employee who is classified as "tipped".


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Taxi2Uber said:


> What you and a few others can't seem to understand is...
> 
> You, on one hand say, "Uber certainly can increase fares, even during a pandemic" but on the other hand also say "Price freezes due to a disaster declaration go into effect to prevent companies from taking advantage of consumers."
> You just made an argument for both sides. Shows you're not logical.


The only misunderstanding here is you think it's "taking advantage of consumers during a crisis who are using a non-essential service that is in critically short supply, by adding a small fee to compensate the people who are performing that service at brisk risk to their own health."

Let me break it down for you: it *is* taking advantage of consumers for a store to raise the price of a 4-pack of toilet paper to 10 dollars during a crisis, as these are essential items and the store is only trying to profit immensely off of it. They're not raising the price for any other reason: they don't lose any money or risk any health problems by selling it at the fair market value. There aren't trying to be competitive with nearby stores. They're just being dicks.

It's *is NOT* taking advantage of consumers to add a small service fee to help pay people who are performing a high risk, non-essential activity for the mere comfort and luxury of people who don't want to expose themselves to the same high risks as their Uber driver. Uber doesn't profit from that. They would be attempting to remain competitive with other RS services from hedging them out of the business.

My friend: we do understand the difference in "times" here. You seem to believe that a "time of crisis" means businesses are required to force themselves out of their own business by performing their services at a loss by not allowing price increases, period.

...which is completely untrue.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Raising the price by adding a surge fee, for a ride after a concert is ok.
> Raising the price by adding a fee/mandatory tip by delivering food, which was deemed essential, during a pandemic is not ok.


Your logic completely escapes me.

You don't like the cost of the essential food delivery? Get somebody else to deliver it.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Your logic completely escapes me.
> 
> You don't like the cost of the essential food delivery? Get somebody else to deliver it.


Why is food _delivery_ essential?

Just because_food_ is essential, that doesn't make _delivery_ of it essential, too.It's a silly connection to make. People can go get their own food. They are perfectly capable of taking the same risks as the driver, by going to get their own food.

They are paying for the luxury of not having to go out and get it themselves, and expose themselves to the same risks. It's a luxury service, nothing more - nothing less.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> They're not raising the price for any other reason


They're raising the price to make more money. Good for them.

For the record, I don't have a problem with expensive gasoline right after a hurricane. At least someone got his butt outta bed to open the store, and drove in crummy weather, in the hope of making a profit.

The alternative is that the store stays closed, and nobody makes any money, and nobody can go anywhere.

And just FYI, it's possible to take a dump without using any TP.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> The only misunderstanding here is you think it's "taking advantage of consumers during a crisis who are using a non-essential service that is in critically short supply, by adding a small fee to compensate the people who are performing that service at brisk risk to their own health."


Wow. How is it you still don't get it?
We are in a crisis/pandemic/disaster/national emergency. Rules and laws are different during these times.



UberChiefPIT said:


> Let me break it down for you: it *is* taking advantage of consumers for a store to raise the price of a 4-pack of toilet paper to 10 dollars during a crisis, as these are essential items and the store is only trying to profit immensely off of it. They're not raising the price for any other reason: they don't lose any money or risk any health problems by selling it at the fair market value. There aren't trying to be competitive with nearby stores. They're just being dicks.


TP is not essential BTW. 
Spring has sprung. There are plenty of leaves out there.
You could use a cloth and then wash it afterwards and reuse.



UberChiefPIT said:


> It's *is NOT* taking advantage of consumers to add a small service fee to help pay people who are performing a high risk, non-essential activity for the mere comfort and luxury of people who don't want to expose themselves to the same high risks as their Uber driver. Uber doesn't profit from that. They would be attempting to remain competitive with other RS services from hedging them out of the business.


Still wrong. Not during a pandemic. 
Food delivery has been deemed essential by the powers that be, not me. 
I'm just relaying and educating you.


UberChiefPIT said:


> My friend: we do understand the difference in "times" here. You seem to believe that a "time of crisis" means businesses are required to force themselves out of their own business by performing their services at a loss by not allowing price increases, period.


Well that is just dumb.
Nobody is forcing anybody to run a business at a loss.
You're just trying to justify raising prices and using a pandemic as an excuse to do so.



Christinebitg said:


> Your logic completely escapes me.
> 
> You don't like the cost of the essential food delivery? Get somebody else to deliver it.


Your logic completely escapes me, as I don't use food delivery service.
(You're obviously still upset from my comment months ago, so you feel the need to attack me. That's fine.)


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## UbeRoBo (Nov 19, 2015)

Just because you are foolish enough to drive for pennies per mile doesn't entitle you to a tip. Get over yourself. No one owes you a tip.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

UbeRoBo said:


> Just because you are foolish enough to drive for pennies per mile doesn't entitle you to a tip. Get over yourself. No one owes you a tip.


***MISSES THE ENTIRE POINT*** :rollseyes:


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> ***MISSES THE ENTIRE POINT*** :rollseyes:


He's a troll from our Las Vegas board who claims to be an airline pilot and encourages drivers to get a real job , he's most likely a taxi cab driver who's butthurt ober uber taking his rides from him


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

The tips are low because the business travelers and tourist are gone. All I see in SF are the locals and they are a stingy bunch. Even with the money the techies make they always complain that everything is so expensive in SF. I get a lot of people telling me how much they appreciate me for doing this job but they rarely tip or they say they'll put a tip on the app and they don't. So maybe they should make tips a mandatory 20% like limo drivers get on their rides.


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## HiLife (Dec 10, 2019)

A tip is given as a thank you or a compliment for service or effort that exceeds the norm. It's discretionary.
Mandatory tipping is just raising the price.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

HiLife said:


> A tip is given as a thank you or a compliment for service or effort that exceeds the norm. It's discretionary.
> Mandatory tipping is just raising the price.


By default, any driver driving in the time of a pandemic is giving service effort that exceeds the norm.

The cost of disinfecting and delivering the service has gone up in price, as with most businesses, you have to pass some of it onto the customer. This 'mandatory tip' is just a way to get the money directly to the driver, rather than giving UBER/LYFT it's 25-30% vig.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> By default, any driver driving* in the time of a pandemic* is giving service effort that exceeds the norm.


Raising prices during a pandemic/crisis/national emergency is Price Gouging.
During these times, most everything is not "the norm"


Kurt Halfyard said:


> The cost of disinfecting and delivering the service has gone up in price,


Not true at all.
Traffic is lighter, so deliveries take less traffic time, increasing your bottom line and volume.
No contact delivery is now an option, which also speeds up delivery time, freeing you to accept the increased volume.
That increased volume, results in increased revenue.
Gas is cheap now, so gas costs have declined comparatively.
I guess that $1 cloth mask and pennies a day worth of latex gloves and Lysol, really puts a dent into your bottom line, huh? LOL


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Raising prices during a pandemic/crisis/national emergency is Price Gouging.


Let me see if i have this right.

Some Uber driver drags his sorry azz out of bed late at night to make a few bucks. And risks getting sick, and endangering his immediate family.

And you think there's something evil about him making an extra $5 or $10 for that?


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Let me see if i have this right.
> 
> Some Uber driver drags his sorry azz out of bed late at night to make a few bucks. And risks getting sick, and endangering his immediate family.
> 
> And you think there's something evil about him making an extra $5 or $10 for that?


(Wow, you're still mad at me? Geez.)

And NO, you don't have it right.

Making an extra $5 or $10 is fine if it came voluntarily.
Charging an extra $5 or $10 because of a pandemic, is called price gouging.
Legally wrong and, yes ethically and morally wrong, since you chose to call it "evil".

Should that "sorry azz" Uber driver be entitled to mandatory tip/hazard fee for risking his life just based on the fact that driving more in general puts him at risk of an accident injury or death?
Should one get a hazard fee for driving during flu season?
How about day drivers being paid a hazard fee for being exposed to the sun more which could result in skin cancer?
Where does it end?
Risk is everywhere from everything.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Risk is everywhere from everything.


If you fail to see that our current circumstances, that governments are willing to melt their own economies to stave off further health crisis, are not worse than the typical risk for Ridehail drivers, well, then you are simply beyond help in this regard.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> If you fail to see that our current circumstances, that governments are willing to melt their own economies to stave off further health crisis, are not worse than the typical risk for Ridehail drivers, well, then you are simply beyond help in this regard.


LOL. What?
Who said anything about a melting economy?
What does that have to do with anything?
Of course the risk of Covid19 is worse than some other risks.
That's why an emergency was declared. Duh. (or was it to melt the economy..hmmm LOL)
Who said otherwise?

Yeah, "beyond help". Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.
I see clearly, thank you very much.
Current circumstance is a pandemic. A crisis. A declared national/global emergency.
Sorry you're not entitled to take advantage of a crisis situation, such as this.

The next time you go shopping for toilet paper at Walmart and they are $20 a roll including the mandatory tip, you're saying that is perfectly fine and that's what you want.
I disagree with that premise. Plus it can be illegal and some would say immoral.

You are wrong and just take the loss.


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## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Minutes ago, I turned down an 11.7 mile McDonalds pickup for $7.75
> 
> Maybe if they would have tipped $5 more, I would have taken it.


I'm pretty sure there was someone who took that order.

Here is why Gig economy companies will continue to win.

The have us work in isolation. Other than Uberpeople (probably less than a percentage of gig economy workers are on here) and whatsapp groups there are very few places where drivers can share information.

They have very high priced lobbyists and they would rather litigate than do what's right and fair. They must pay their lawyers tons of $$$ (imagine they gave that back to drivers instead)

They spend lots and lots of money on positive media stories. I keep hearing in the media how Uber/Lyft is keeping us safe! (How many of us have actually recieved viable PPE or cleaning supplies from RS companies during this pandemic?)

California and NYC (to an extent) called Ubers bluff and got their gov/boards to change the laws. It remains to be seen if the laws were changed for the best but they did drive change.

I keep hearing about strikes but they are only effective if everyone does it...(see my first point above)

Until something major happens and some people take the initiative to move driver agendas forward we will never be paid our worth. Dont even start me on tips....


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> LOL. What?
> Who said anything about a melting economy?
> What does that have to do with anything?
> The next time you go shopping for toilet paper at Walmart and they are $20 a roll including the mandatory tip, you're saying that is perfectly fine and that's what you want.
> I disagree with that premise. Plus it can be illegal and some would say immoral.


My point about countries risking their economies with stay at home orders was to convey that this is a situation that goes beyond the usual risks of a driver driving for a gig company.

As to toilet paper:
I don't shop at Walmart. I try to avoid Amazon. I pay a slight premium to support my local businesses, and make my community better. I vote with my wallet.

Enjoy your race to the bottom.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> My point about countries risking their economies with stay at home orders was to convey that this is a situation that goes beyond the usual risks of a driver driving for a gig company.


I know your point. I don't need it explained.
You were countering a point I never made.


Kurt Halfyard said:


> As to toilet paper:
> I don't shop at Walmart. I try to avoid Amazon. I pay a slight premium to support my local businesses, and make my community better. I vote with my wallet.


You missed the point, but that's OK.
You just want people to agree with you. I get it.


Kurt Halfyard said:


> Enjoy your race to the bottom.


Thanks Moderater and brother driver.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> I know your point. I don't need it explained.
> You were countering a point I never made.


Sadly, most arguments are 'settled' on how the argument is framed, rather than the argument itself. Guilty as charged on that one.




Kurt Halfyard said:


> I don't shop at Walmart. I try to avoid Amazon. I pay a slight premium to support my local businesses, and make my community better. I vote with my wallet.





Taxi2Uber said:


> You missed the point, but that's OK.
> You just want people to agree with you. I get it.


My point was that I am already happy to pay a slight premium for the greater good, i.e. my community. I think that was very specific regards in the original point of this SUR-CHARGE / MANDATORY TIPPING, and your 'bootstraps' retort. But clearly: Your mileage may vary.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> My point was that I am already happy to pay a slight premium for the greater good, i.e. my community. I think that was very specific regards in the original point of this SUR-CHARGE / MANDATORY TIPPING, and your 'bootstraps' retort. But clearly: Your mileage may vary.


That's fine.
YOU are happy to pay a premium, so you do so by a VOLUNTARY TIP.
YOU are happy to pay a premium for the "greater good/community", so you do so by a VOLUNTARY TIP.

But REQUIRING an additional SUR-CHARGE/MANDATORY TIP during a pandemic is a whole other ball of wax.
Your premise is wrong. Your outlook is wrong.
You are NOT ENTITLED to an additional SUR-CHARGE / MANDATORY TIP.


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

I'd like to see some of these tip-fakers get popped for wire fraud.


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