# LYFT IS STEALING FROM DRIVERS WITH UPFRONT COST! CUSTOMER CHARGED $242, DRIVER GETS $44!!!



## Toocutetofail (Sep 14, 2018)




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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I did this here at an event venue. They were charging $248 and I was going to get $47! This shit is real


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Sorry, but that’s not stealing. It is underpaying perhaps.
Stealing is when they take something you already had or pay you less than you agreed to.

If you seriously think they are stealing call a cop and press charges. Please.


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

Pinky promise.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

You could argue they were "stealing" from the rider.

Surge/Prime Time was initially for getting more drivers to areas of high demand. When it was the 75%/25% or 80%/20% split it made sense. Driver gets more in busy time.

Now Surge/Prime Time are nothing more than price gouging and a cash grab by Uber/Lyft.

What *legitimate* reason* do Uber/Lyft have for charging Surge/Prime Time if the driver's not getting it?

With Upfront Fares for drivers Uber's just paying the whatever the dollar amount Surge is and maybe a few dollars of base fare and pocketing the rest.

I'd love to see some consumer protection agencies or state Attorneys General go after them for price gouging.

*"Because we want to" is not a legitimate reason.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New2This said:


> You could argue they were "stealing" from the rider.
> 
> Surge/Prime Time was initially for getting more drivers to areas of high demand. When it was the 75%/25% or 80%/20% split it made sense. Driver gets more in busy time.
> 
> ...


Some pax have told me about the skyhigh prices they're being charged such as $55 for an 18 minute ride out of DCA.. Another pax told me she was having trouble getting a driver to accept a ride out of DC. She said Uber wanted $90 for the ride. I make it a point to tell the pax that the drivers are getting little to none of the surges.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

New2This said:


> You could argue they were "stealing" from the rider.
> 
> Surge/Prime Time was initially for getting more drivers to areas of high demand. When it was the 75%/25% or 80%/20% split it made sense. Driver gets more in busy time.
> 
> ...


Agree. The best course of action when you have documented evidence is likely to report it to your state Attorneys General and Consumer Protection Agency’s.
Research how to trigger whistleblower protections.


In Minnesota you can find the complaint form here.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Some pax have told me about the skyhigh prices they're being charged such as $55 for an 18 minute ride out of DCA.. Another pax told me she was having trouble getting a driver to accept a ride out of DC. She said Uber wanted $90 for the ride. I make it a point to tell the pax that the drivers are getting little to none of the surges.





Atavar said:


> Agree. The best course of action when you have documented evidence is likely to report it to your state Attorneys General and Consumer Protection Agency’s.
> Research how to trigger whistleblower protections.
> 
> 
> In Minnesota you can find the complaint form here.


I'd recommend every driver, when it's possible, find out what the rider's paying. 

If it's like the example in the thread beginning encourage them to contact the appropriate authorities. If enough riders complain then maybe they'd take action.

DON'T make it only about drivers because nobody GAF about drivers. Make the Karens aware they're being screwed and watch out.

Maybe contact a 7 on your side consumer reporter too although I'm skeptical the press would do much.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

New2This said:


> I'd recommend every driver, when it's possible, find out what the rider's paying.
> 
> If it's like the example in the thread beginning encourage them to contact the appropriate authorities. If enough riders complain then maybe they'd take action.
> 
> ...


One of these city council people was complaining about surge pricing and how it was affecting people that worked late night shifts. It got me to thinking , fast food workers are getting $15 an hour here. I'm driving my car around, without surge pricing and with the inevitable stops. They are making more than me. Most of the people I pick up are at bars paying $20 for a drink. They can afford to may me a decent wage. I'm out here risking red light tickets, getting carjacked or killed. I didnt choose to work at mcdonalds or live in a crappy hood. If they dont want to pay me to work the public transportation system works very good. Instead of killing off surges they should be looking at limiting the amount of the skim or cutting the city taxes on the rides. Am I supposed to drive around risking life limb and paying all the expenses for $20 an hour?


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## Toocutetofail (Sep 14, 2018)




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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

I'm a believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method. So as far as I'm concerned IDGAF about Uber's overall "take rate" or whether the "sample size" of drivers who have claimed to be screwed over is large enough.

My focus is simple and direct... the companies are NOT entitled to take more than 25% (30% if you want to be extremely generous) of the gross trip revenue, period. Every cent they take above that is robbery (not legally but ethically, which is even more important).

To me there's no "acceptable" percentage of rides in which Uber takes excessive cuts. If they do it once it's once too many. Obviously they do it zillions of times.

When I discover that my clown car drunken foursome ride (a topic I'd also like to address another time) paid me a pathetic 35% of what the pax were charged, I've been robbed, period. It's ZERO consolation to be told that it only happens on such and such percent of the total rides given. Like I said previously, one robbery is one robbery too many.

Uber and Lyft NEVER want the narrative to focus on individual robberies because they know they wouldn't be able to justify it. So instead they pivot the narrative to their OVERALL take rate which they manipulate with Hollywood Accounting methods.

The message that drivers need to focus on and repeat is "one ripoff is one ripoff too many".


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Am I supposed to drive around risking life limb and paying all the expenses for $20 an hour?


You've become accustomed to a certain caliber of hookers and cocaine. 

Having to downgrade is unacceptable.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

New2This said:


> You've become accustomed to a certain caliber of hookers and cocaine.
> 
> Having to downgrade is unacceptable.


Well yea.... I'm finding a couple of pork chops 
and an adderall isnt a good substitution


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> I'm a believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method. So as far as I'm concerned IDGAF about Uber's overall "take rate" or whether the "sample size" of drivers who have claimed to be screwed over is large enough.
> 
> My focus is simple and direct... the companies are NOT entitled to take more than 25% (30% if you want to be extremely generous) of the gross trip revenue, period. Every cent they take above that is robbery (not legally but ethically, which is even more important).
> 
> ...


Th answer is simple. Don’t drive for them. If you do you are enabling and encouraging them to take more and more often.


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> One of these city council people was complaining about surge pricing and how it was affecting people that worked late night shifts. It got me to thinking , fast food workers are getting $15 an hour here. I'm driving my car around, without surge pricing and with the inevitable stops. They are making more than me. Most of the people I pick up are at bars paying $20 for a drink. They can afford to may me a decent wage. I'm out here risking red light tickets, getting carjacked or killed. I didnt choose to work at mcdonalds or live in a crappy hood. If they dont want to pay me to work the public transportation system works very good. Instead of killing off surges they should be looking at limiting the amount of the skim or cutting the city taxes on the rides. Am I supposed to drive around risking life limb and paying all the expenses for $20 an hour?


This skimming is exactly what the mob used to do with the take from the Vegas casinos. They are extortionists and racketeers.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

If you think they are extorting and/or racketeering report them to your state Attorneys General and Consumer Protection Agency. Please


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Atavar said:


> If you think they are extorting and/or racketeering report them to your state Attorneys General and Consumer Protection Agency. Please


I know the IRS offers a percentage of taxes collected for reporting tax evaders.

I wonder if there's some kind of reward for it?

Besides a 🖕🖕🖕🖕 to Uber/Lyft


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> One of these city council people was complaining about surge pricing and how it was affecting people that worked late night shifts. It got me to thinking , fast food workers are getting $15 an hour here. I'm driving my car around, without surge pricing and with the inevitable stops. They are making more than me. Most of the people I pick up are at bars paying $20 for a drink. They can afford to may me a decent wage. I'm out here risking red light tickets, getting carjacked or killed. I didnt choose to work at mcdonalds or live in a crappy hood. If they dont want to pay me to work the public transportation system works very good. Instead of killing off surges they should be looking at limiting the amount of the skim or cutting the city taxes on the rides. Am I supposed to drive around risking life limb and paying all the expenses for $20 an hour?


Don't drive without a surge. Every time the companies take more from the fare than you, they are guilty of wage theft/misclassification of employment and you are entitled to financial damages. Most lawyers will be thrilled to represent you.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

New2This said:


> I know the IRS offers a percentage of taxes collected for reporting tax evaders.
> 
> I wonder if there's some kind of reward for it?
> 
> Besides a 🖕🖕🖕🖕 to Uber/Lyft


In Minnesota you can get 15% or more of monies recovered because of whistleblower reports.


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## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> If you think they are extorting and/or racketeering report them to your state Attorneys General and Consumer Protection Agency. Please


And you’ll be told it’s a civil matter , until a whistle blower comes forward , nothing will be done , even when the whistle blower comes forward , the company will be fined ( usually a tiny percentage of the profit they made off of said nefarious deeds .

Rnse and repeat , how many time have we all heard about auto manufacturers who know of problems with a design flaws that kill , still put the product forward for profits as they know the profits far out way the fines when caught .

It def sucks , but the older you get , the more you understand , the average person is just a hamster on a wheel .


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

They don't owe you anything. You agreed to partner with them and everyone who accepts a ride is doing it to themselves. The company stands to profit and they don't care about your earnings.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Emptynesst said:


> And you’ll be told it’s a civil matter , until a whistle blower comes forward , nothing will be done , even when the whistle blower comes forward , the company will be fined ( usually a tiny percentage of the profit they made off of said nefarious deeds .
> 
> Rnse and repeat , how many time have we all heard about auto manufacturers who know of problems with a design flaws that kill , still put the product forward for profits as they know the profits far out way the fines when caught .
> 
> It def sucks , but the older you get , the more you understand , the average person is just a hamster on a wheel .


Umm. You _are_ the whistle blower


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> They don't owe you anything. You agreed to partner with them and everyone who accepts a ride is doing it to themselves. The company stands to profit and they don't care about your earnings.


They owe you based on IC laws and employment laws.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Atavar said:


> If you think they are extorting and/or racketeering report them to your state Attorneys General and Consumer Protection Agency. Please


Wasn’t the FTC supposed to crack down on the apps… for their pricing schemes? Whatever happened to that. Seems to have been swept under the carpet 🤷‍♂️


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Atavar said:


> Umm. You _are_ the whistle blower


Is it because he is whistling Dixie 🎶? Or because he is directing traffic with his whistle?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Emptynesst said:


> And you’ll be told it’s a civil matter , until a whistle blower comes forward , nothing will be done , even when the whistle blower comes forward , the company will be fined ( usually a tiny percentage of the profit they made off of said nefarious deeds .


I think it depends on the jurisdiction. 

I could see the D.C. Council going after Uber/Lyft for the price gouging if the drivers aren't getting any of it.

Especially if it disproportionately affects lower-income people.

Remember, as I said before, the purpose of Surge initially was to pay drivers more so that they'd drive when demand was higher.

If the drivers aren't getting the increased price there's no justification for Surge, other than greed (AKA price gouging) by the companies.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> They don't owe you anything. You agreed to partner with them and everyone who accepts a ride is doing it to themselves. The company stands to profit and they don't care about your earnings.


Are you justifying Lyft charging triple and sharing none with the driver?


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Wasn’t the FTC supposed to crack down on the apps… for their pricing schemes? Whatever happened to that. Seems to have been swept under the carpet 🤷‍♂️


It is being processed now. That is why Uber and Lyft are having a mad dash for cash right now. I expect everything to change early 2023.


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## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

New2This said:


> I think it depends on the jurisdiction.
> 
> I could see the D.C. Council going after Uber/Lyft for the price gouging if the drivers aren't getting any of it.
> 
> ...


I get what you’re sayin , I’m not for the antics of Uber / Lyft , but I’m older and have seen this dog and pony show many times , results are the same , many years go by , said company is finally held accountable , pays a fine ( less than 1 percent of profit made by such wrongdoing , it’s the way of the world , he who has the gold so to speak , makes the rules


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Emptynesst said:


> I get what you’re sayin , I’m not for the antics of Uber / Lyft , but I’m older and have seen this dog and pony show many times , results are the same , many years go by , said company is finally held accountable , pays a fine ( less than 1 percent of profit made by such wrongdoing , it’s the way of the world , he who has the gold so to speak , makes the rules


Yep. And it will cost more to prosecute the case than the intake of the fine rendered. At the end of the day, everyone is still in the same position, especially drivers.

Here is your coupon for a free snack at 7-11.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Emptynesst said:


> I get what you’re sayin , I’m not for the antics of Uber / Lyft , but I’m older and have seen this dog and pony show many times , results are the same , many years go by , said company is finally held accountable , pays a fine ( less than 1 percent of profit made by such wrongdoing , it’s the way of the world , he who has the gold so to speak , makes the rules


I agree it probably won't amount to much. Also by the time anything happens they'll likely be out of business.

It would be fun to see Dara, Logan and Zimmer in front of a government panel explaining how they justify high prices when drivers don't get any benefit.

This argument more than most could lead to @Nats121 wet dream of government oversight and regulation.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

New2This said:


> I agree it probably won't amount to much. Also by the time anything happens they'll likely be out of business.
> 
> It would be fun to see Dara, Logan and Zimmer in front of a government panel explaining how they justify high prices when drivers don't get any benefit.
> 
> This argument more than most could lead to @Nats121 wet dream of government oversight and regulation.


There will be one of two answers given…

Shareholder value.
I plead the 5th.


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## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Yep. And it will cost more to prosecute the case than the intake of the fine rendered. At the end of the day, everyone is still in the same position, especially drivers.
> 
> Here is your coupon for a free snack at 7-11.


What a business model , everyone gets paid except ………………. the people taken advantage of , almost like a rigged system 🤷‍♂️


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## Asruf (Dec 24, 2019)

Time to pay for Bloodsucker Uber… Comes around goes around.. KARMA…






Uber Eats settlement: $10M settlement after Uber Eats, Postmates delivery apps list city of Chicago restaurants without consent | abc7chicago.com


The city and Uber agreed to a $10 million settlement after the Uber Eats and Postmates delivery apps listed Chicago restaurants without their consent.




abc7chicago.com


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Asruf said:


> Time to pay for Bloodsucker Uber… Comes around goes around.. KARMA…
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$10M is NOTHING to a company like Uber… it is part of the cost of doing business. And it is just another tax write off.


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## Asruf (Dec 24, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> $10M is NOTHING to a company like Uber… it is part of the cost of doing business. And it is just another tax write off.


How about that its reputation in public? Problem ain’t money problem is ETHICS


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## kamelsf (Jul 10, 2015)

Asruf said:


> How about that its reputation in public? Problem ain’t money problem is ETHICS


You are naive man if you think uber care about their reputation. Riders don't care about drivers getting screwed until the day most of drivers become dangerous to them. At the end of the day uber care only about money. Even if they go bankrupt one of those days, CEO, executives and investors already made their money. They will move on, and keep been comfortable inside their small bubble and probably go screw an other industrie. To me they won on every front. No real justice in this world. You can say thank you to your regulators for that.

If you don't know the story of uber, you should watch the tv show "Super Pumped". It's pretty good. They are missing a lot of things but there is enough to see that ETHIC is not part of uber values. They still the rideshare company number 1 in the world until now. People don't care about ethic today  I'm not sure in what reality you live in if you think otherwise.


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## Bnerdy (Jul 11, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> I'm a believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method. So as far as I'm concerned IDGAF about Uber's overall "take rate" or whether the "sample size" of drivers who have claimed to be screwed over is large enough.
> 
> My focus is simple and direct... the companies are NOT entitled to take more than 25% (30% if you want to be extremely generous) of the gross trip revenue, period. Every cent they take above that is robbery (not legally but ethically, which is even more important).
> 
> ...


When has rideshare ever been ethical though? I started from the beginning with the 80/20 split and they weren’t ethical when it came to city laws and regulations. It was illegal in Philly when I started and Uber just said, “we will pay to get your car from impoundment”. So even though they wasn’t screwing us, they were screwing the cities. Now the cities are cool, spun back around to us being screwed


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## Jamie Vegas (May 14, 2017)

Please help yourself and quit! I promise you’ll be happier when you do! That’s what I did! Also, I’ll never drive or ride on these shitty apps ever again! I don’t mind a taxi!


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> There will be one of two answers given…
> 
> Shareholder value.
> I plead the 5th.


This isn't a criminal trial with rules of evidence, it's a hearing before a govt body that the companies would need to convince to see things their way. 

Suffice to say that pleading the fifth would not go over well with the govt panel. Neither would a lame ass excuse of "shareholder value".


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> This isn't a criminal trial with rules of evidence, it's a hearing before a govt body that the companies would need to convince to see things their way.
> 
> Suffice to say that pleading the fifth would not go over well with the govt panel. Neither would a lame ass excuse of "shareholder value".


Companies are entitled to make a profit. Shareholder value is definitely a consideration of such profit…


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Lyft has been doing thos for years, nothing new. 

The only difference is they now pay you even less than before.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Companies are entitled to make a profit. Shareholder value is definitely a consideration of such profit…


I'm all for profits. Capitalism 101.

Not sure of the exact legal term but I'll go with price gouging.

If they're charging Surge/Prime Time at a concert/football game etc., where they need drivers, under the premise that the extra money is going to the drivers (not as much as we'd like but it still goes to the driver) that's fine. I made a lot of money off that system.

When they're charging Surge/Prime Time and sharing none with the drivers, that's price gouging.

Can you give a justification for charging more and not sharing with the drivers? Again "because we want to" or "because we can" are not valid reasons.

I'm usually not one for government meddling but maybe putting Uber/Lyft under taxicab commission would solve this.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

New2This said:


> I'm all for profits. Capitalism 101.
> 
> Not sure of the exact legal term but I'll go with price gouging.
> 
> ...


If my company sells a widget for $1 and it sold 1 million, the company gross is $1 million. You are paid $20 per hour.

I decide to raise the price of the company widget to $2, and within the same period of time I sell 1 million more, the company gross is $2 million. You are still paid $20 per hour.

If the company is making 2x as it was before, are you entitled to 2x the pay?

My point is that you are agreeing to work for x amount of pay regardless of what the company makes.

That being said, I get the point you are trying to make. I hope you get mine as well.


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## Trucker girl (2 mo ago)

Not sure why anyone puts up with this kind of treatment. There are a ton of companies hiring and there are a ton of places that offer paid training to do something more profitable than working a 9-5 job. I quit Uber/Lyft back in 2017 and went and got my cdl and never looked back. 
Uber/lyft and their employees are liberal turds. Especially in Cali. The riders are rude, have little respect for you the driver or your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and get as far away from this hell. If enough drivers stop driving for these shit ride share companies than eventually they will go under. However in order to make a statement everyone has to quit an once. That’s the only way for these companies to feel the burn! They use you, your vehicle and they could careless. The only way they care is when their bottom line is threatened or gone. Pull an Elon Musk on these *****es and turn it around like he’s doing with Twitter!!!


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## bstraight081 (1 mo ago)

Stealing in the case of a rider paying an inflated rate while you get rate fixed and are paid a fraction of the money maybe a stretch. What I think many drivers fail to see is that in the big picture, we are consumers. We do not work for the companies. We pay them for a service with every ride. What we are charged for that service is not consistent nor are we provided the same protections by the laws in place like the riders are. We don’t. Get to see an estimate of the cost we are incurring prior to incuring the cost. All the while, We are actually being paid by the pax, though the company holds the role of being our payment processor/ collector. So they charge the rider on our behalf, often gouging the rider who has from the beginning been fed the idea that if the ride cost more the driver is making a correspondingly higher amount. Though this is hardly the case. Personally I think drivers would be better off pursuing the angle of it being a consumer protection issue in which drivers are paying for a service without being provided the details of the charges that are being taken against the amount that was ultimately charged on our behalf. This typically is something that is handled by the states attorney general(the top cop in any state). If there is a corporate crime found to have been committed who better to have investigating the issue. The opinions an AG can issue, while not binding, have very real effects on what is and isn’t pursued by the jurisdiction they represent. Their opinions are advisory in nature but have very real impacts on how laws are written, interpreted, and enforced. I truly think that they may be the best avenue for drivers to use to pursue. They are specifically tasked with consumer protection against fraud. Which makes them perfect for handling these issues. Has this angle been taken? I’m honestly not aware of any attempt to have these companies activities investigated under consumer protection laws on behalf of the drivers.


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

bstraight081 said:


> Stealing in the case of a rider paying an inflated rate while you get rate fixed and are paid a fraction of the money maybe a stretch. What I think many drivers fail to see is that in the big picture, we are consumers. We do not work for the companies. We pay them for a service with every ride. What we are charged for that service is not consistent nor are we provided the same protections by the laws in place like the riders are. We don’t. Get to see an estimate of the cost we are incurring prior to incuring the cost. All the while, We are actually being paid by the pax, though the company holds the role of being our payment processor/ collector. So they charge the rider on our behalf, often gouging the rider who has from the beginning been fed the idea that if the ride cost more the driver is making a correspondingly higher amount. Though this is hardly the case. Personally I think drivers would be better off pursuing the angle of it being a consumer protection issue in which drivers are paying for a service without being provided the details of the charges that are being taken against the amount that was ultimately charged on our behalf. This typically is something that is handled by the states attorney general(the top cop in any state). If there is a corporate crime found to have been committed who better to have investigating the issue. The opinions an AG can issue, while not binding, have very real effects on what is and isn’t pursued by the jurisdiction they represent. Their opinions are advisory in nature but have very real impacts on how laws are written, interpreted, and enforced. I truly think that they may be the best avenue for drivers to use to pursue. They are specifically tasked with consumer protection against fraud. Which makes them perfect for handling these issues. Has this angle been taken? I’m honestly not aware of any attempt to have these companies activities investigated under consumer protection laws on behalf of the drivers.


Uber and Lyft would probably just respond with the BS that we are shown the amount of "fees" we pay to them in our taxes.


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## bstraight081 (1 mo ago)

Lord Summerisle said:


> Uber and Lyft would probably just respond with the BS that we are shown the amount of "fees" we pay to them in our taxes.


 And that’s the problem. Every ride is a transaction for which we should be able to account for individually. This way we can use this information to optimize our own businesses. The way the tax information is provided we cannot provide revenue projections and show the actual cash flow of our businesses. Regardless, we still cannot ever know what we are being charged at the time of us being charged until long after we are charged. What other transactions are effectively completed where there is effectively a blank check written for what the charges come to. And do not provide you an itemized receipt for every single charge your expect to pay?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> If my company sells a widget for $1 and it sold 1 million, the company gross is $1 million. You are paid $20 per hour.
> 
> I decide to raise the price of the company widget to $2, and within the same period of time I sell 1 million more, the company gross is $2 million. You are still paid $20 per hour.
> 
> ...


Your analogy isn't applicable...

1) The widget worker (most likely an employee) isn't reaching into his/her own pockets to cover the cost of the overhead of making the widgets. The company has to cover the entire cost. Rideshare drivers on the other hand have to pay for the vast bulk of the overhead of every ride they provide. They also assume the vast majority of the risk. The widget worker doesn't.

2)The widget worker receives the full array of mandated benefits (Comp, FICA, Unemployment, etc). Gig workers receive NO benefits.

3) The worker's labor is not the product the customers pay for, the widget is the product. The rideshare driver's labor on the other hand IS the product the customers pay for.

4) Widget-making is not a commission-based occupation, livery work on the other hand is often commission-based.

5) The rideshare occupation was sold to the drivers and the public as COMMISSION-based for the drivers and the rate was at least 80% of what the pax paid.

6) Uber has always maintained that the pax and the drivers are in a "business relationship"


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Companies are entitled to make a profit. Shareholder value is definitely a consideration of such profit…


Any attempt by Dara or other bigwigs to use the pursuit of profit and shareholder value as some sort of justification for their horrendous behavior over the years would fail miserably. Virtually every wrongdoing committed by businesses has been done in the pursuit of profit.

A govt body would be conducting a hearing, not a trial. While Dara and the rest would be under oath it's highly doubtful anyone would dare plead the fifth because to do so would backfire badly.


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

SinTaxERROR said:


> If my company sells a widget for $1 and it sold 1 million, the company gross is $1 million. You are paid $20 per hour.
> 
> I decide to raise the price of the company widget to $2, and within the same period of time I sell 1 million more, the company gross is $2 million. You are still paid $20 per hour.
> 
> ...


I think the point here is that, regardless of how much revenue they generate, both companies have LOWERED what drivers get paid, while also raising their share of the fare cut. When I started doing this almost 9 years ago the pricing was very different: $2 base, $.95/mile, $.35/min... $8 minimum fare. And I received 80% of the fare. The rate card prior to UFP was $.78 base, $.61/mile, $.11/minute. 

Taking a ride I did last week... 30.15 miles and 64 minutes... 9 yrs ago - $42.43... last week - $26.30... that's a difference of $16.13 for that one ride. Not to mention they have capped surge for drivers and a lot more often than not, charge the rider surge but don't show drivers the pax are being charged surge.

I had another rider last week that said he was paying $86, I received $24. It's a sham. As the other person also said, the pax are assuming that we are receiving a lot more than we are.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

DMCK said:


> When I started doing this almost 9 years ago the pricing was very different: $2 base, $.95/mile, $.35/min... $8 minimum fare.


Are those pax rates or driver rates? They look like pax rates, especially the $8 minimum fare.

What market?

If you were being paid less than $1 per mile back in 2013 that means the rates in your market had already been slashed before you started. To the best of my knowledge Los Angeles and Chicago were the first two markets in the US that had their rates slashed to below $1 per mile, and it occurred in the fall of 2013. All other US markets were still well above $1 per mile at that point.

In the summer of 2014 Uber instituted their first nationwide pay cut and the results were disastrous. The per mile rate plunged all the way down to less than 80 cents per mile in most markets and the per minute and other rates also plunged.

All the newer markets such as Oklahoma and Florida saw their pay rates plunge in 2015.

The pay cuts changed what was once a middle class job into a poverty job.


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## Anchortown (1 mo ago)

DMCK said:


> I think the point here is that, regardless of how much revenue they generate, both companies have LOWERED what drivers get paid, while also raising their share of the fare cut. When I started doing this almost 9 years ago the pricing was very different: $2 base, $.95/mile, $.35/min... $8 minimum fare. And I received 80% of the fare. The rate card prior to UFP was $.78 base, $.61/mile, $.11/minute.
> 
> Taking a ride I did last week... 30.15 miles and 64 minutes... 9 yrs ago - $42.43... last week - $26.30... that's a difference of $16.13 for that one ride. Not to mention they have capped surge for drivers and a lot more often than not, charge the rider surge but don't show drivers the pax are being charged surge.
> 
> I had another rider last week that said he was paying $86, I received $24. It's a sham. As the other person also said, the pax are assuming that we are receiving a lot more than we are.


Just had a $10 Lyft ride in Anchorage, customer paid $67. Lyft does not offer drivers surge rates here but Uber does. We need to form a union and/or boycott driving till we receive a decent wage!


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## Deadants (1 mo ago)

this is Los Angeles upfront pricing


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Are those pax rates or driver rates? They look like pax rates, especially the $8 minimum fare.
> 
> What market?
> 
> ...


When I started back in early 2015 my market was $1.15 a mile and like 19 cents a minute. Our first pay cut after that came January 16th. They entitled it the winter slumps and it was supposed to be temporary to get us through the winter lol they said by cutting our rates will make more money😂🤣


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> Are you justifying Lyft charging triple and sharing none with the driver?


Uh. Why are you driving FOR Lyft in the first place? You signed up for crazy, you get what you get in return.



nosurgenodrive said:


> They owe you based on IC laws and employment laws.


Riiiight.



SinTaxERROR said:


> Here is your coupon for a free snack at 7-11.


With a purchase...


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> Uh. Why are you driving FOR Lyft in the first place? You signed up for crazy, you get what you get in return.


Because doing Lyft Lux and Lyft Black only works for me for now.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> When I started back in early 2015 my market was $1.15 a mile and like 19 cents a minute. Our first pay cut after that came January 16th. They entitled it the winter slumps and it was supposed to be temporary to get us through the winter lol they said by cutting our rates will make more money😂🤣


Yeah I remember that quite well. They cut my per mile rate by 42% putting us on par with Detriot. I had driven a biker guy up to the desert for him to go have sex with a married real estate agent in an empty house that she had listed and she was paying for his trip. After they had sex and she sent him back to the valley from the desert with a different Uber she noticed that the return trip was significantly cheaper than the trip up there. So she complained to Uber and they took 42% of my money from me and told me I took a bad route. There is literally only one route that is possible to go over the mountains near me. It took a lot of fighting with Uber to get my money back. Uber still had American support at that time and Southern California drivers could route our email questions and complaints to a Los Angeles-based customer support, which I did, and an area manager called me and I was able to explain what happened and that is how I finally got my money back. He actually gave me a few extra bucks as well and took the complaint off my record that support had filed against me because my emails questioned their education and mental fitness in a rather direct manner.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

SpinalCabbage said:


> took the complaint off my record that support had filed against me because my emails questioned their education and mental fitness in a rather direct manner.


I got Shadow banned for support abuse. They didn't pay me correctly and the support agent agreed with me and could see that I should have been paid but said he couldn't pay me because the computer told him he couldn't. I proceeded to ask him if he had a brain in which he responded to with yes. Well great now that that's been established can you use it? Use your freaking brain dude! The Computer is obviously wrong. You're going to steal someone's money because a computer that you admitted was wrong has told you no?🤦‍♀️


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Daisey77 said:


> I got Shadow banned for support abuse


Are you sure about that? I have to go full Samuel L Jackson upon Rohit to get his attention. 

Never noticed any problems after doing it.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

New2This said:


> Are you sure about that? I have to go full Samuel L Jackson upon Rohit to get his attention.
> 
> Never noticed any problems after doing it.


Yeah I got a message from Uber saying my acct had been flagged for support abuse. After a week or two of barely getting any requests I made an appointment at the Hub and went in. They confirmed it. They said support flagged me for support abuse and also mentioned something about the number of times I had contacted them around that time. They asked me, how many times did you call support? I said, what do you mean how many times have I called support? Regarding the original issue? Every day. They laughed. I laughed. I said well if they would have fixed the issue to begin with I wouldn't have had a call back😁🤷‍♀️. I asked them, what's the point of having support if we're not able to call them? 🙄


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

New2This said:


> Are you sure about that? I have to go full Samuel L Jackson upon Rohit to get his attention.
> 
> Never noticed any problems after doing it.


Uber doesn't list the number of each type of complaint you have received in the app any longer. But who knows what notes they add to our profile.


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## Nnichols (Dec 14, 2017)

Toocutetofail said:


>


this happened to me too.i think it is their algorythms.


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