# New Lyft rules have Uber steaming mad



## Mikek999 (May 17, 2017)

Full story here: https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transportation/new-lyft-rules-have-uber-steaming-mad

*New Lyft rules have Uber steaming mad*

A policy change by Lyft has enraged Uber and could increase congestion by shifting cars from the outer boroughs to Manhattan.

Starting June 27, Lyft drivers will not be able to get onto the company's app if they are cruising where few people are demanding rides. Instead, they will have to wait until demand picks up, or drive to a busier neighborhood-Midtown, for example.

Drivers will have to keep looking for busy areas throughout the day, or risk getting thrown off the app until demand increases.

Some Lyft drivers will be exempt-the ones who accept 90% or more ride requests and have completed at least 100 rides in the previous 30 days. Insiders say that is likely to be a small portion of them.

The policy is Lyft's reaction to new minimum-wage rules that it unsuccessfully challenged in court-and which it says benefit Uber.

The new payment formula looks at how much of the time a driver cruises with an empty car. The more cruising a driver does, the more fare revenue the app-based company needs to share to ensure the driver makes at least $17 an hour after expenses.

App-based services with a high "utilization rate"-meaning their drivers are ferrying passengers nearly 60% of the time-can contribute less to the driver's pay. To reduce congestion in Midtown the Taxi and Limousine Commission wants fewer empty cars.

Both Lyft and Juno have argued that Uber, which has more users than its competitors, will need to chip in the least to make their drivers whole. The TLC has been using an industry-wide utilization rate but in February 2020 will begin using company-specific rates. Lyft is acting now because the agency will calculate next year's rates over a six-month period that starts July 1.

By keeping drivers off its app when demand is low, Lyft will boost its utilization rate. It could also hurt Uber's, as drivers switch to Uber's app, flooding its platform with available cars.

Lyft emailed its drivers today about the change and put up a blog post with suggestions for working with the rules.

"Because of the TLC regulations, we're making changes to the Lyft app which will limit the number of drivers who can log on when there isn't a high demand for rides," a spokesman said in a statement. "This means some drivers may have to wait to drive or may not be able to drive at all. We believe these new rules are misguided, but are working diligently to support drivers during this change."

Uber sees Lyft's move as a slap to the face.

"Once drivers are kicked off of the Lyft app, they will immediately log on to Uber, significantly increasing the vehicles on our platform without taking a car off the road," an Uber spokeswoman said in a statement. "We will continue working to ensure that we can provide sustainable earning opportunities for drivers and affordable trips for riders."

The Independent Drivers Guild, which represents app-based drivers and gets funding from Uber, said Lyft was ignoring the city's requirement that the payment formula take into account the time a driver spends "waiting for a dispatch and then traveling" to pick up passengers.

"This is Lyft trying to avoid paying drivers for all of their time on the app as required in New York City-and city leaders cannot allow it," a guild spokeswoman said in a statement. "By forcing drivers to log off the app and drive to a new location before they can get back on, they are shifting the costs for those miles and minutes back on to drivers in violation of city rules."


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)




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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

I'm not familiar with New York's law specifically regarding this but if they have to pay even when the app is on but there are no riders bumping people offline *and telling them to go somewhere specifically else before they can go back online *could be seen as attempting to circumvent the law. It could be argued that someone getting bumped offline and then immediately following Uber's/Lyft's instructions should have been paid for that time, especially since going to that new location was in Uber's/Lyft's interest and not the driver's.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Lyft kicking people off just looks sketchy in itself lol ?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

so basically while lyft drivers go over to uber and lyft gets busy, lyft pax get upset at wait times and order ubers instead lol

good job, lyft


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Mikek999 said:


> Full story here: https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transportation/new-lyft-rules-have-uber-steaming-mad
> 
> *New Lyft rules have Uber steaming mad*
> 
> ...


Totally expected this with the new minimum wage law in effect.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

RDWRER said:


> I'm not familiar with New York's law specifically regarding this but if they have to pay even when the app is on but there are no riders bumping people offline *and telling them to go somewhere specifically else before they can go back online *could be seen as attempting to circumvent the law. It could be argued that someone getting bumped offline and then immediately following Uber's/Lyft's instructions should have been paid for that time, especially since going to that new location was in Uber's/Lyft's interest and not the driver's.


How is drivers driving around burning up extra gas being "good for the community" or for providing warm and fuzzies for helping the environment? -o:


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

You have to accept rides at a reasonable AR... you cannot decline 95% of the rides and expect to get paid 
17$/hr.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

mbd said:


> You have to accept rides at a reasonable AR... you cannot decline 95% of the rides and expect to get paid
> 17$/hr.


This law is a great example of what happens with government interference, in the market place.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

That's why I been telling you people, dont drive empty. It makes no sense to drive empty. Of course if you are dropping off someone in middle of no where yeah you got to come back... but once in an area... just stay put. Never understood why I see empty uber cars driving downtown.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

As much as I love they are screwing Uber with it, lol, for how long do they think they could circumvent the law?

Hopefully nobody has figured out a way to "milk the clock" in NY *oops*.

Lyft is notorious for rolling back online time, I hope everyone is checking.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

In Las Vegas, starting about 3.5 years ago, a driver was apt to get more ride requests by cruising the Strip...rolling thru 10,000s of hotel rooms was much better than sitting near 2,000 rooms. But, now, Uber's policies and tricks and army of ants have changed everything. Sometimes sit, sometimes roll to surge. I only drive surge and no longer even try for quests. If you do base rate rides, you will lose or make nickels and dimes.


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Hahahaha lyft clearly cares about the community.... lol they don’t give a f.... about the drivers.


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## MondayMan (Apr 27, 2019)

If you keep Uber, Lyft, Juno, and Via all running at the same time, do all four companies have to each pay you $17/hour? Do they have to keep paying even if a driver doesn’t accept pings? That would be a nice gig! You could keep four apps on all day and get paid $68/hour while you sleep or take a walk or do whatever you want to.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MondayMan said:


> If you keep Uber, Lyft, Juno, and Via all running at the same time, do all four companies have to each pay you $17/hour? Do they have to keep paying even if a driver doesn't accept pings? That would be a nice gig! You could keep four apps on all day and get paid $68/hour while you sleep or take a walk or do whatever you want to.


I'd imagine you'd have to start taking every ride, or at least a vast majority of them.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

In actually reading the Lyft blogpost, it appears that they are doing exactly what they should have been doing all along. In fact, when Lyft started this is how they did schedule drivers. Lyft drivers used to have to schedule their shifts in advance and could not log onto a un- scheduled shift unless there was adequate business. This is much like Instacart was also doing.

1. Once you are on the Lyft APP you will stay on the Lyft APP unless you refuse or cancel two rides in a row. You will get a warning before this happens. You will not get kicked off of the app just because demand is low once you are actually signed on unless 30 minutes have passed without a Lyft ride. If there is no demand, you have 30 minutes to drive to an area, at Lyft's expense that has demand. This is a good thing because you won't have other drivers to compete with. I would rather this number be 60 minutes and I would rather Lyft give us a destination to drive to that will guarantee that we stay on line, but it is what it is.

2. If demand is low and there is no Lyft business then you will NOT be allowed on the Lyft APP. That is exactly how it should be. If there is no Lyft business, then you will not be working. This will cut the number of Lyft drivers on the Lyft APP that are sitting around waiting for Lyft pings that never come.

3. If you are not allowed on the Lyft APP because there is no business, where you are, then you can drive to an area (at your time and expense) and if there is business in that area, then you will be allowed on the Lyft APP. This is really no different that what you have been doing all along.

And as Lyft goes, so does Uber and I would expect them to envoke a similar policy.



MondayMan said:


> If you keep Uber, Lyft, Juno, and Via all running at the same time, do all four companies have to each pay you $17/hour? Do they have to keep paying even if a driver doesn't accept pings? That would be a nice gig! You could keep four apps on all day and get paid $68/hour while you sleep or take a walk or do whatever you want to.


Something tells me that you are going to have to pick one app to be logged onto at a time. They will quickly plug this hole in this scheme if drivers were allowed to double dip. Keep in mind that $17 an hour is the minimum that a driver has to be paid. There is no maximum. Cash tips will not be included in the $17 an hour figure.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Possibly a little glimpse into the future as employees if/when that happens.

The Lyft blog post referenced in the article.

https://thehub.lyft.com/what-the-new-tlc-rules-mean-for-you


> Starting June 27, the number of drivers who can be on the road at any given time will be determined by passenger demand - and spots may be limited. This means if there's low demand, you may have to drive to busier areas or wait to go online and drive once demand picks back up.


Possible prelude to scheduled shifts and territories.



> Drivers who maintain an acceptance rate above 90% and complete 100 rides in 30 days have priority to drive - and don't have to worry about the new app changes. Drivers with priority can drive anywhere at any time - even areas with low demand. Express Drive and WAV drivers are also exempt from these changes.


If employee status becomes a reality, low acceptance rates will be a thing of the past.

Interesting to watch things evolving in CA and NYC. ? ?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

What a fustercluck.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

WAHN said:


> Possibly a little glimpse into the future as employees if/when that happens.
> 
> The Lyft blog post referenced in the article.
> 
> ...


This is, exactly, why I'm adamantly opposed to employee status.

Doubt it will happen in Georgia. However, if it does, am OUTTA here!


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

MiamiKid said:


> This is, exactly, why I'm adamantly opposed to employee status.
> 
> Doubt it will happen in Georgia. However, if it does, am OUTTA here!


Lyft and Uber drivers are not employees in NYC. They are independent contractors. What has this got to do with employee status?


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Totally expected this with the new minimum wage law in effect.


I thought I was the only one here that lyfts decision made sense to. I originally thought they was going to raise requirements to drive and/or minimum rating to eliminate drivers, this actually is smarter.

I have a strong feeling this is only step one as these rideshare companies struggle to finally turn a profit.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

mbd said:


> You have to accept rides at a reasonable AR... you cannot decline 95% of the rides and expect to get paid
> 17$/hr.


Thats not how it works in NYC. It is not a "real" hourly wage. The reality is higher rates and fees (not an actual hourly rate). You can reject all the requests you want, you just won't make any money. If you sit in your car and decline all rides you get $0.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Lyft and Uber drivers are not employees in NYC. They are independent contractors. What has this got to do with employee status?


Since the minimum wage formula in NYC apparently takes into account time that drivers are waiting for a ping, it has some similarities to what having them as employees would be.

Notice that the Lyft blog post also said the new rule doesn't apply to those with an AR of 90% or above. That's also something that will naturally be a side effect of employee status. IC's that worked the system to maximize profitability will find it harder to do so as it progresses towards more of an employer-employee relationship. So called smart drivers will make less and so called dumb drivers will make more.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Totally expected this with the new minimum wage law in effect.


This has nothing to do directly with driver pay. This has to do with the utilization rate that Uber and Lyft will have to subsidize. The lower the Utilization rate the more U/L have to pay. This is an attempt by Lyft to Game the utilization rate and screw uber into an even lower utilization rate after all the Lyft drivers who get bumped out will sign onto Uber.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Thats not how it works in NYC. The reality is higher rates and fees (not an actual hourly rate). You can reject all the requests you want, you just won't make any money. If you sit in your car and decline all rides you get $0.


In the OP, it says:


> App-based services with a high "utilization rate"-meaning their drivers are ferrying passengers nearly 60% of the time-can contribute less to the driver's pay. To reduce congestion in Midtown the Taxi and Limousine Commission wants fewer empty cars.


So the "utilization rate" is the cause.

Naturally, Uber will probably follow suit at some point.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Mikek999 said:


> Full story here: https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transportation/new-lyft-rules-have-uber-steaming-mad
> 
> *New Lyft rules have Uber steaming mad*
> 
> ...


------------------------
Wow - now this is interesting.
*Drivers who have an Acceptance rate of 90% & 100 rides in last 30 days will be exempt. *
Drivers who cherry pick rides are going to have a problem.
Interesting strategy used by Lyft but it will definitely hurt when it comes to "logged on " miles at tax time. Lyft wants to improve their "Utilization Rate" by removing excessive drivers logged on in an area and the effect will cost the mighty Uber money.
I think this will only effect the drivers with low AR and people who usually drive in rural areas. There is no definition as to what will be considered a "slow" area. And again -- ONLY drivers with low Acceptance Rates will be affected.


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## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

So, if In New York the drivers get paid for when they are online regardless of pings and New York does not allow Lyft to make people log off that means just go where there will be no pings, go to sleep and get paid all night..

Lol easy money until Lyft is forced to pull out of New York


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

WAHN said:


> In the OP, it says:
> 
> So the "utilization rate" is the cause.
> 
> Naturally, Uber will probably follow suit at some point.


They will have to.

The utilization rate is how many minutes in an hour drivers can expect to be on rides. Has absolutely nothing to do with drivers declining rides, AR rate, etc etc.. It has to do with supply and demand. The importance is the utilization rate goes in to the formula which determines driver rates and fees. Beginning next year U/L will have to financially subsidize if they dont hit target formula utilization rate.

When demand = supply it results in a great utilization rate. 100 rides needed and 100 drivers available. When there is 100 rides needed and 300 drivers available it is a very poor utilization rate. Uber and Lyft can't control. the DEMAND, but they can control the SUPPLY. Lyft's new game controls the supply in response to demand. This is to protect their utilization rate and the financial implications. As an added Bonus, when they kick drivers off the platform in a particular area with low demand, they will sign into uber increasing Uber's SUPPLY of drivers in a lower DEMAND area.LOL. Its a 2 for 1, they game their numbers and make Ubers worse!



RodB said:


> So, if In New York the drivers get paid for when they are online regardless of pings and New York does not allow Lyft to make people log off that means just go where there will be no pings, go to sleep and get paid all night..
> 
> Lol easy money until Lyft is forced to pull out of New York


That is in no way how it works. It is not an actual hourly rate. In reality NYC drivers get paid like everyone else, mileage and time giving rides. Just much higher rates or fees than you or I get.



KK2929 said:


> ------------------------
> Wow - now this is interesting.
> *Drivers who have an Acceptance rate of 90% & 100 rides in last 30 days will be exempt. *
> Drivers who cherry pick rides are going to have a problem.
> ...


No rural area in NYC! LOL. Virtually all drivers in NYC have a lower than 90% acceptance rates. Just like anyone else they have places and rides they dont want to go. Essentially its just Lyft saying they will let a couple drivers stay online in a dead area and thats the criteria they chose.


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## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

Was this quote in the original post incorrect.
I tried to go to the story but it says you have to pay $5 to read the story ...

"This is Lyft trying to avoid paying drivers for all of their time on the app as required in New York City—and city leaders cannot allow it," a guild spokeswoman said in a statement. "


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Lyft and Uber drivers are not employees in NYC. They are independent contractors. What has this got to do with employee status?


Everything


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Sounds like this is only in NYC. Ridesharing in NYC is very different to most of the US, as it is fully regulated like taxis.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

WAHN said:


> Since the minimum wage formula in NYC apparently takes into account time that drivers are waiting for a ping, it has some similarities to what having them as employees would be.
> 
> Notice that the Lyft blog post also said the new rule doesn't apply to those with an AR of 90% or above. That's also something that will naturally be a side effect of employee status. IC's that worked the system to maximize profitability will find it harder to do so as it progresses towards more of an employer-employee relationship. So called smart drivers will make less and so called dumb drivers will make more.


The NYC drivers are still independent contractors. They are not employees. All this does is make sure that driver's working on the app make at least $17 an hour in fares. If they don't make at least $17 in fares an hour then Lyft has to pay them the difference.

They are not employees.

This is totally different than what is going on in California where the drivers will become employees.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

What would stop Uber from doing the same thing?

I am of the belief that the Lyft platform and supporting algo is more advanced and can be tweaked to do things like this.


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

RDWRER said:


> I'm not familiar with New York's law specifically regarding this but if they have to pay even when the app is on but there are no riders bumping people offline *and telling them to go somewhere specifically else before they can go back online *could be seen as attempting to circumvent the law. It could be argued that someone getting bumped offline and then immediately following Uber's/Lyft's instructions should have been paid for that time, especially since going to that new location was in Uber's/Lyft's interest and not the driver's.


i hope ny sues lyft for trying to pull a fast one


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> employee status. Doubt it will happen in Georgia. However, if it does, am OUTTA here!


Why? Is Uber going to close its offices and lay you off if it happens in Georgia?


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Why? Is Uber going to close its offices and lay you off if it happens in Georgia?


No, would totally quit, driving rideshare, if we became employees.


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## zeroperminute (Jun 19, 2019)

kevin92009 said:


> i hope ny sues lyft for trying to pull a fast one


well this is definitely employee treatment so i guess theyll be regulated to provide soc sec credits, workers comp, overtime, holiday pay, vacation, sick days, etc....

the government needs to go ahead and just shut these "companies" down & seize their assets theyre opperating as organized crime rackets at this point, the interstate wire fraud is an easy rico

turn it into a jobs program, being backed by the man with gov. background checks will cut down the riff raff, they get all the data on shitizens

everyone 21 & older that owns a car & passes check has a fair job serving their community

nationwide minimums of $10 gross per ride, $1.50 per mile, .30 per minute & the government can just take a $1-2 cut on 10+ million rides per day for the connection or finders fee


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Lyft just made the wrong move. 95% of drivers will go into city and will drive there all day long and they will be cancelling over 30+ mins drive.
Then
(1) How about the passengers who want the ride outside of busy city since there are less Lyft cars?
(2) How about the passengers who want the ride to get out the busy city since drivers are cancelling their requests?
(3) Eligible drivers will have to drive more miles to pick up riders if they don't want to lower their acceptance rate. That make drivers will keep working on Uber app.

Riders will start using Uber and lyft will be out of business in no time. Uber wins.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Wildgoose said:


> Lyft just made the wrong move. 95% of drivers will go into city and will drive there all day long and they will be cancelling over 30+ mins drive.
> Then
> (1) How about the passengers who want the ride outside of busy city since there are less Lyft cars?
> (2) How about the passengers who want the ride to get out the busy city since drivers are cancelling their requests?
> ...


Uber wins what?
The race to the bottom, that's what.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

The wonderful thing about Uber is that they lose money twice as fast as Lyft.


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