# Beware:New surge format is a "screw you" to drivers



## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Now the surge is a flat dollar amount.....which means on long trips during surge we are completely screwed ...a 100 mile trip is usually around $80, if it's a 2x surge youll make $160, with the new system the most you'll make on a $5.00 surge is $85......surge is officially dead....


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Now the surge is a flat dollar amount.....which means on long trips during surge we are completely screwed ...a 100 mile trip is usually around $80, if it's a 2x surge youll make $160, with the new system the most you'll make on a $5.00 surge is $85......surge is officially dead....


Amazing 180 days of change!!! I'm so happy with Uber!!! Wow our patients during these hard times really paid off!!! Yayyyyy!!! Is this for real though?


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Now the surge is a flat dollar amount.....which means on long trips during surge we are completely screwed ...a 100 mile trip is usually around $80, if it's a 2x surge youll make $160, with the new system the most you'll make on a $5.00 surge is $85......surge is officially dead....


Are you speculating or is it active in your area?


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

wk1102 said:


> Are you speculating or is it active in your area?





UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> Amazing 180 days of change!!! I'm so happy with Uber!!! Wow our patients during these hard times really paid off!!! Yayyyyy!!! Is this for real though?


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Drivers gotta do something, seriously if we don’t push back there will be no way to make money.


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## Igsfire (Sep 28, 2017)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Drivers gotta do something, seriously if we don't push back there will be no way to make money.


Ummm or it could mean that certain humans cannot do basic math, and they want to fix the amount based on a base fare????


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

I don't think it's how you claimed. I think it's just so people can see exactly how much more it is for the surge.

But hopefully it's not a set price but an estimate.


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

"Regardless of length." Whoa, wait a minute! So if a ride ends up 5 miles and 20 minutes longer due to an update in destination, we don't get paid for that extra length? It goes to base rate?

Who's feedback is this based on? I don't recall receiving a survey for this.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

"Lets you know exactly how much extra you will make on the trip regardless of length"


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## Igsfire (Sep 28, 2017)

DocT said:


> "Regardless of length." Whoa, wait a minute! So if a ride ends up 5 miles and 20 minutes longer due to an update in destination, we don't get paid for that extra length? It goes to base rate?
> 
> Who's feedback is this based on? I don't recall receiving a survey for this.


I know that sounds really bad to me too. If that person wants extra stops... its ughh wait a minute we can start a new trip with a new surge. I think what they mean though is it might be precalculated.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

This doesn't answer my question.

I've seen this, it's very vague. Again, is this active in your area?


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

wk1102 said:


> This doesn't answer my question.
> 
> I've seen this, it's very vague. Again, is this active in your area?


I agree it's vague. We need someone to show us an example.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

The people who runs uber, are a group who will always with out fail screw you over in the end.....this is how they end the 180 days of change first take away the destination filter, which was working great for me, now they kill the surge.....their mission is always to keep other people under control and unhappy....



wk1102 said:


> This doesn't answer my question.
> 
> I've seen this, it's very vague. Again, is this active in your area?


Yes....


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

Credit goes to grams777 for originally posting this link in another thread (https://uberpeople.net/threads/anyone-got-this-new-surge-bs.217172/page-5#post-3248235), which leads to the originating thread:

*Thread from Charlotte: New surge process. What do you think?*
https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-surge-process-what-do-you-think.217124/#post-3247786


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

DocT said:


> Credit goes to grams777 for originally posting this link in another thread (https://uberpeople.net/threads/anyone-got-this-new-surge-bs.217172/page-5#post-3248235):
> *Thread from Charlotte: New surge process. What do you think?*
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-surge-process-what-do-you-think.217124/#post-3247786


I also asked them to try to catch what pax is paying when the drivers get this fixed $ surge. I'd like to see if they're doing like a 1.5 x on the pax fare and only passing on a fixed $2 or something to the driver.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Old surge vs new surge



grams777 said:


> I also asked them to try to catch what pax is paying when the drivers get this fixed $ surge. I'd like to see if they're doing like a 1.5 x on the pax fare and only passing on a fixed $2 or something to the driver.


I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


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## Igsfire (Sep 28, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge


This is on a longer trip though, for the cruddy 5 to 8 mile trips that surge is nice


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

I hope uber sticks with it...

And kills ridesharing in the process...

They took the ONLY thing that drivers liked and broke the crap out of it...

Way to go FUber


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge
> 
> I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


We really need to catch what the pax pays or multiplier is on a trip versus what the driver surge is.


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge
> 
> I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


Thanks


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Alex Carlson said:


> This is on a longer trip though, for the cruddy 5 to 8 mile trips that surge is nice


Go crawl to your master.....its the trump affect....they "can shoot someone in the head in time square" and people will still support them....


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge
> 
> I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


So for that 6 dollar surge ride. Were they all 6 dollar surges in that area? Or was it like 2 or 3 dollars for a short trip?
At 6 dollars would be an approximate 1.3x surge on that trip.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> So for that 6 dollar surge ride. We're they all 6 dollar surges in that area? Or was it like 2 or 3 dollars for a short trip?


Think the surge go from $1 to $10....I was at the airport....that was a 24 mile trip at a peak time....it should have netted me $40+....23 of that from the surge....instead it netted me $26 $6 from the surge....


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Think the surge go from $1 to $10....I was at the airport....that was a 24 mile trip at a peak time....it should have netted me $40+....23 of that from the surge....instead it netted me $26 $6 from the surge....


I see. I appreciate your help and your answers. Yeah it looks like by them changing it they can hide the pay cut.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I hope uber sticks with it...
> 
> And kills ridesharing in the process...
> 
> ...


1... thank you for your service!
2... shut up!
3... I want to change my vote


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

We need a 8 pm uber black out at the airport every night...


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge
> 
> I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


So 2 or 20 miles, same dollar amount....

How much did the rider pay on the second One?


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

wk1102 said:


> So 2 or 20 miles, same dollar amount....
> 
> How much did the rider pay on the second One?


Remember we're not allow to know what the pax pay....I just know I got $4 less for a trip that 4.5 mile and 4 min longer....


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Remember we're not allow to know what the pax pay....I just know I got $4 less for a trip that 4.5 mile and 4 min longer....


They stopped showing you what the rider pays too?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Uberk5487 said:


> Remember we're not allow to know what the pax pay....I just know I got $4 less for a trip that 4.5 mile and 4 min longer....


Uber should be showing the total the pax pays if you drill down deep enough into the fare details.


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge
> 
> I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


Could you please post a trip breakdown/ details for your second screenshot?


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

wk1102 said:


> They stopped showing you what the rider pays too?


Months ago.....when they started upfront pricing.....


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## Johnydoo (Jul 25, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Months ago.....when they started upfront pricing.....


You can still see it under "fare details".
No surge = No driving tonight.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Months ago.....when they started upfront pricing.....


Tap fare details.. it will , or should, show you there


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

wk1102 said:


> Tap fare details.. it will , or should, show you there


Ok so Uber takes between 30-50 percent.....if you were paid $15 usually the pax paid $25-30.....


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Uberk5487 said:


> It only shows what you as a driver made, not what the customer pays.....that's because Uber not takes between 30-50 percent.....if you were paid $15 usually the pax paid $25-30.....


Did you try at looking at your trip details at partners.uber.com ? Mine all show what I got paid, how much the rider paid, and how much Uber received. The app is sometimes tricky in how it displays the information.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

grams777 said:


> Did you try at looking at your trip details at partners.uber.com ? Mine all show what I got paid, how much the rider paid, and how much Uber received. The app is sometimes tricky in how it displays the information.


Yeah I just did...I see it does show what the pax pay.....thx....so on the new surge system...I got a flat $6 a total of $26 and Uber got a whopping $19 the pax paid $47....


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Uberk5487 said:


> Yeah I just did...I see it does show what the pax pay.....thx....so on the new surge system...I got a flat $6 a total of $26 and Uber got a whopping $19 the pax paid $47....


As suspected, it looks like Uber is charging the riders a normal surge multiplier and only passing on a fraction to the driver.

In the fare reported above, Uber took about 2/3 of the surge.

After running the numbers, it appears this was approximately a 1.9 x surge zone. It's hard to say exactly due to upfront pricing possibly mixed in.

What really appears to have happened was that the surge charged to the rider was $17.79. Uber paid the driver $6 of it and pocketed the difference (about $12).

Breakdown of The Rider Fare without surge:
Base Fare: $1.10
Booking: 2.40
Rider Fee: 1.50
Miles: 24.5 x .81 = 19.85
Minutes: 29.27 x .15 = 4.39
Total Amount Rider Should Have Been Charged (if no surge): $29.24

Amount Rider Actually Paid: $47.03

Difference = Amount of Surge = $17.79
(Some could be due to upfront pricing)

Driver Should Have Been Paid Extra For the Surge = $17.79 x .8 = $14.23

Driver Actually Received For the Surge: $6.00

Amount of Surge Lost by Driver (net extra taken by Uber instead of going to Driver): $8.23

Driver % of Total Rider Payment = 26.26 / 47.03 = 56%
Uber % of Total Rider Payment: 44%


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

Crooks. Drivers need to boycott. Maybe no drive days. Everyone refuse to drive on the *same *day each week. Hang out at airport hand out flyers to ants explaining this in simple terms.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Even TK wasn't this bold.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Don't you love it when they claim something is based on feedback? Who's feedback, uber investors?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Don't you love it when they claim something is based on feedback? Who's feedback, uber investors?


This is how they're going to attack the profitability problem:

Raising rates and fees to riders while lowering the payments to drivers (booking fee increases, upfront pricing, wind down driver surge).


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

grams777 said:


> This is how they're going to attack the profitability problem:
> 
> Raising rates and fees to riders while lowering the payments to drivers.


Who the hell's gonna bother dealing with shitshows at ballparks and other pain in the ass locales without a legitimate surge?


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

When it surges, I can see more drivers not accepting ride requests when they see the driver's upfront fare payment.
Drivers will create their own personal minimum fare acceptance threshold during surges. This creates a longer wait time for pax until their request cycles through all nearby drivers until an ant picks it up.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

DocT said:


> When it surges, I can see more drivers not accepting ride requests when they see the driver's upfront fare payment.
> Drivers will create their own personal minimum fare acceptance threshold during surges. This creates a longer wait time for pax until their request cycles through all nearby drivers until an ant picks it up.


Maybe uber believes they've got enough clueless ants to handle the load, and if not, then they'll need a hefty pay increase for the drivers.

Does anyone believe there could be a surprise hefty pay increase in December?


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> Even TK wasn't this bold.


TK forced his way back in....and things been going back down hill every since....


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Does anyone believe there could be a surprise hefty pay increase in December?


LOL! Good one!


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Maybe uber believes they've got enough clueless ants to handle the load, and if not, then they'll need a hefty pay increase for the drivers.
> 
> Does anyone believe there could be a surprise hefty pay increase in December?


I'm prepared for a pay cut.....these people just can not do the right thing by people....it's against their religion....


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> TK forced his way back in....and things been going back down hill every since....


Nawh, this craziness really took off on his way out & after. We are getting ripped off on a magnitude that was unthinkable a year ago.

Uber now blatantly charges surge pricing w/o passing it on. $80 rider payment, $40 driver payout.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> I'm prepared for a pay cut.....these people just can not do the right thing by people....it's against their religion....


Uber wouldn't increase driver pay because it's the right thing to do, they'd only do it out of desperate necessity


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Does anyone believe there could be a surprise hefty pay increase in December?


Nope. Just meatless cold-cuts.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> Nawh, this craziness really took off on his way out & after. We are getting ripped off on a magnitude that was unthinkable a year ago.
> 
> Uber now blatantly charges surge pricing w/o passing it on. $80 rider payment, $40 driver payout.


His last evil deed was upfront pricing.....then he was kicked out but he came back with a vengeance.....


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> His last evil deed was upfront pricing.....then he was kicked out but he came back with a vengeance.....


If TK came up with upfront{esp a year ago}, he would still be the CEO today. I'm 100% sure that this wasn't his vision & the real reason he was ousted.

I'd have to look but there's a quote from 2016 pointing out that if uber took 100% of a 15% rate increase, Uber would be profitable.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

Uberk5487 said:


> Old surge vs new surge
> 
> I'm sure scruber worked a raised in there for themselves.....


Isn't the second one only 1.3X, while the first is 1.8X?


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## jrich6234 (Mar 27, 2017)

My response to Uber -

It's Saturday night and before I read this, I was all set to go drive.

Read this, took my clothes off and went to bed.

That's my executive decision and Uber can live with that.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> If TK came up with upfront{esp a year ago}, he would still be the CEO today. I'm 100% sure that this wasn't his vision & the real reason he was ousted.
> 
> I'd have to look but there's a quote from 2016 pointing out that if uber took 100% of a 15% rate increase, Uber would be profitable.


I believe upfront started _over_ a year ago, in summer 2016. That I know of, the idea was never credited to Travis or any other specific person tho. Even the company didn't make it like they "came up with it", as their blog entry introducing it compared it to buying a plane or train ticket, which someone came up with a very long time ago.

Are u saying someone other than Travis came up with it a year ago, and Travis had been the one he'd still be there? How do you know this stuff?


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Maybe uber believes they've got enough clueless ants to handle the load...


The entire rideshare platform is based clueless ants.

Every time a rider asks me about Uber money, they are surprised that I am the only one that has ever responded in the negative. My take is that most people who are are excited to see a $600-$800 Uber payday never really understand how much of that is actual business expense.

I only drive a few hours each week so I'm not dependent any rider share income... but if I solely depended on Uber/Lyft for my income, I would have been long gone a long time ago.


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## UberAntMakingPeanuts (Aug 20, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> The entire rideshare platform is based clueless ants.
> 
> Every time a rider asks me about Uber money, they are surprised that I am the only one that has ever responded in the negative. My take is that most people who are are excited to see a $600-$800 Uber payday never really understand how much of that is actual business expense.
> 
> I only drive a few hours each week so I'm not dependent any rider share income... but if I solely depended on Uber/Lyft for my income, I would have been long gone a long time ago.


I know! One pax, after asking me about my earnings, the first thing that came out of my mouth was about the depreciation of my car. He told me that I was the only driver that gave him my true cost to drive Uber, not just the gas expense. I was surprised that no other driver calculated more than gas expenses. I cannot believe people don't take anything else into consideration.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> The entire rideshare platform is based clueless ants.
> 
> Every time a rider asks me about Uber money, they are surprised that I am the only one that has ever responded in the negative. My take is that most people who are are excited to see a $600-$800 Uber payday never really understand how much of that is actual business expense.
> 
> I only drive a few hours each week so I'm not dependent any rider share income... but if I solely depended on Uber/Lyft for my income, I would have been long gone a long time ago.


Speaking for myself, even though I'd like to tell the riders just how bad uber treats their drivers, I bite my tongue.

Most of my riders seem to like uber and lyft, and I figure if I criticize or complain about uber it could backfire into a 1-star rating.

I suspect most other drivers act the same way, which gives the riders a false idea that the drivers are satisfied with uber.


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Speaking for myself, even though I'd like to tell the riders just how bad uber treats their drivers, I bite my tongue.
> 
> Most of my riders seem to like uber and lyft, and I figure if I criticize or complain about uber it could backfire into a 1-star rating.
> 
> I suspect most other drivers act the same way, which gives the riders a false idea that the drivers are satisfied with uber.


Never talk negative about a company you represent.
But discussing the actual costs involved to maintain rideshare is honest.

A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:

Uber provides the car I drive.
Uber reimburses the gas and maintenance needed to drive.
Uber pays drivers an hourly wage.
Drivers keep all the fare payment ("What the rider pays")

I break out the honesty and tell pax the truth:

Vehicle is my PERSONAL family car.
I pay 100% of the maintenance and fuel.
Drivers are Independent Contractors, and do NOT receive any hourly wage or benefits.
I, as a driver, receive 75% of the ACTUAL mileage and time rates of the live trip.

And yes, pax also tells me about what other drivers tell them, and it's total BS.


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## outface (Oct 15, 2017)

Stop driving and then Uber will start changing.
Drivers, gain your self-respect and self-esteem.
All know Uber is a CHEAP brand.
How people look at you driving or riding with a CHEAP brand?!
More confrontations are predictable and inevitable.
Drive and ride at your own risk. Uber ON.
Uber is just an app and do harmless to anyone.
If misfortune happens, Uber will remove them from the platform.
This is always what Uber can do. Uber do care about the public safety.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

DocT said:


> Never talk negative about a company you represent.
> But discussing the actual costs involved to maintain rideshare is honest.
> 
> A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:
> ...


If a pax asks me, I'll tell them the truth, but I don't introduce the topic.



DocT said:


> Never talk negative about a company you represent.
> But discussing the actual costs involved to maintain rideshare is honest.
> 
> A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:
> ...





DocT said:


> Never talk negative about a company you represent.
> But discussing the actual costs involved to maintain rideshare is honest.
> 
> A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:
> ...


What kind of BS are other drivers telling the pax?


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> What kind of BS are other drivers telling the pax?


What I just posted above. 
As for the vehicle, I do tell pax that there are leases available, but it requires doing the gig full time (I don't tell them full time = 60 hours/week for the non-experienced drivers).
Also, other drivers claim they make $2k-3k per week (pax never stated if this was gross or net or profit). Sure, it's possible, but when multiple pax tell me this, I know the roaches (Select drivers) are just lying, especially in the area I drive in. Unless, lvesq1906 or mandreyka invaded my hood. 
Benefits, before Uber introduced them, was a flatout lie by drivers.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

DocT said:


> Credit goes to grams777 for originally posting this link in another thread (https://uberpeople.net/threads/anyone-got-this-new-surge-bs.217172/page-5#post-3248235), which leads to the originating thread:
> 
> *Thread from Charlotte: New surge process. What do you think?*
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-surge-process-what-do-you-think.217124/#post-3247786


Whenever I see an "update or something new" in driver app... I figure Uber's created a new way to screw driver's while trying to convince us we somehow benefit.



DocT said:


> What I just posted above.
> As for the vehicle, I do tell pax that there are leases available, but it requires doing the gig full time (I don't tell them full time = 60 hours/week for the non-experienced drivers).
> Also, other drivers claim they make $2k-3k per week (pax never stated if this was gross or net or profit). Sure, it's possible, but when multiple pax tell me this, I know the roaches (Select drivers) are just lying, especially in the area I drive in. Unless, lvesq1906 or mandreyka invaded my hood.
> Benefits, before Uber introduced them, was a flatout lie by drivers.


If driver's are working in San Fran Bay Area? 2k/week is DOABLE. I worked 46 hrs last week. Made $1,815.
3k? Those drivers are practically driving non-stop 2, 3 & 4 days & getting only a few hrs sleep. Drivers come to SF Bay Area from Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Fresno, Sacramento every Thurs & work Fri, Sat, Sun and go home.
My Lyft app shuts down after 12 hrs. Uber? Not a chance.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Johnydoo said:


> You can still see it under "fare details".
> No surge = No driving tonight.


In Seattle, Uber tried suspending surge for a couple of full days recently, and on one of them there was a major stadium game (baserate, total flatline). What resulted is that people were getting requests for the stadium 10+ miles away even though there were cars all over the city. Nobody was willing to sit in stadium post-game traffic for an hour getting paid base rates. Lyft was running like normal, and I saw many an AMP with changed colors picking up pax. I saw cars with only the Uber stickers, with drivers taking a smoke break as the traffic crawled around them. Watch economics go to work. The surge came back, and I noticed that weekend, Uber's Surge was slightly higher and longer than Lyft. I took advantage of that accordingly (and Uber achieved much more convenient shorter pickups for their riders as a result).


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## bmedle (Jul 19, 2017)

DocT said:


> A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:
> 
> Uber provides the car I drive.
> Uber reimburses the gas and maintenance needed to drive.
> ...


Where do these people think Uber makes any money then? If Uber's providing a car, an hourly wage and the driver keeps every penny of what they're paying, there doesn't seem to be anything for Uber.

This kind of ignorance allows these companies to exist. When a pax wants to talk TNC, I give them the truth.


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## Koolbreze (Feb 13, 2017)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Drivers gotta do something, seriously if we don't push back there will be no way to make money.


Wow all is lost with no surge. If you go out and actually drive......YOU CAN MAKE MONEY!!!!!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DocT said:


> Never talk negative about a company you represent.
> But discussing the actual costs involved to maintain rideshare is honest.
> 
> A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:
> ...


Your #4 is a lie almost all the time, unless you long haul everyone. I'm an "80%er and I've never received 75% overall, without surge, even before upfront pricing.


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## u_no_me (Jun 27, 2014)

Koolbreze said:


> Wow all is lost with no surge. If you go out and actually drive......YOU CAN MAKE MONEY!!!!!


Maybe what you call money, most of us have higher standards. don't you ever get tired of cheerleading for Uber, or is that really where you make your money?


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Strange Fruit said:


> I believe upfront started _over_ a year ago, in summer 2016. That I know of, the idea was never credited to Travis or any other specific person tho. Even the company didn't make it like they "came up with it", as their blog entry introducing it compared it to buying a plane or train ticket, which someone came up with a very long time ago.
> 
> Are u saying someone other than Travis came up with it a year ago, and Travis had been the one he'd still be there? How do you know this stuff?


People just say dumb crap just to argue.....nothing he said made any logical sense.....



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Your #4 is a lie almost all the time, unless you long haul everyone. I'm an "80%er and I've never received 75% overall, without surge, even before upfront pricing.


There's no such thing as a% 80er Uber takes around %45 now.....we just get the flat rate......


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## YouBeer (May 10, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I hope uber sticks with it...
> 
> And kills ridesharing in the process...
> 
> ...


Its not just Uber.
The ungrateful ****ing pax in NYC for example who pay less than they would to ride around in what some of them describe as a 'dirty cab' (which not all are) and then ****ing complain about **** knows what because the driver did not have 'gum to offer' or was not 'entertaining enough for them'.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

grams777 said:


> I also asked them to try to catch what pax is paying when the drivers get this fixed $ surge. I'd like to see if they're doing like a 1.5 x on the pax fare and only passing on a fixed $2 or something to the driver.


It wouldn't surprise me one bit. It seems like the game is on to become profitable and much of the way to do that is by jacking up prices to the customer but not paying the drivers anything more. Giving the driver a flat $5 on a 80 mile trip with a 2.5 surge would be a "nice" way for Uber to pocket more money.


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## Xris Xros (May 3, 2016)

The end is near. 



jrich6234 said:


> My response to Uber -
> 
> It's Saturday night and before I read this, I was all set to go drive.
> 
> ...


Sign up for Lyft.


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## ReyesMX6 (Dec 31, 2016)

Alex Carlson said:


> I know that sounds really bad to me too. If that person wants extra stops... its ughh wait a minute we can start a new trip with a new surge. I think what they mean though is it might be precalculated.


Didn't you post about how people shouldn't be complaining about wages because they signed up for the wages they get? Get with the program right?


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

The obvious solution is a new competition which will eventually emerge. The only obstacle that is currently preventing new competitions is the massive subsidies which Uber/Lyft is giving out to artificially keep the price very low. How long Uber/Lyft can afford to burn cash at this scale is the question. If this practice can go on infinitely, a new business theory has to be written for the business schools.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Not sure why the surge method had to change. If there's more demand then supply, then a multiplier is added. Simple. This is definitely not good for those that drive exclusively for surges.


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## Xris Xros (May 3, 2016)

Koolbreze said:


> Wow all is lost with no surge. If you go out and actually drive......YOU CAN MAKE MONEY!!!!!


Oh no! We have a SuperAnt here. lol


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

rembrandt said:


> The obvious solution is a new competition which will eventually emerge.


If this change goes nationwide; that becomes a reality. The #1 reason why drivers like uber vs lyft is higher surge pricing. Lyft isn't real competition.

{A new company} that takes 10%, no frills incentives, with actual surge, tips, 100% transperency & destinations would flat out win. Quickly.


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> {A new company} that takes 10%, no frills incentives, with actual surge, tips, 100% transperency & destinations would flat out win. Quickly.


That is the ultimate eventuality. Uber/Lyft can not burn out cash with predatory pricing schemes indefinitely. No one has infinite cash or patience ( investors). Transportation as a whole is a low margin business anyway. A new company without the excess fat of unicorns will emerge as soon as dusts are settled. Not if but when ?


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## StevenInRVA (Oct 26, 2017)

I've only been doing UberEATS for a little while, but it seems like that's the concept they've had for awhile. I used UE as a customer, and I'll go on there at busy times and see ***UBEREATS IS BUSY IN THIS AREA. EXTRA $8.28 FEE***. Then I'll go on the driver app and it will be the same 1.3x Boost that's always in the area during busy times. So basically they're acknowledging they either don't have enough drivers at the moment, it's hectic and they can't keep up, or a combination of both, enough to where they're charging someone an extra $8 fee for delivery and literally NONE of that extra goes to the driver. Sad. (I know this isn't the UE place but just giving an example of how Uber seems to keep the extra fees charged to customers.)


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## jrich6234 (Mar 27, 2017)

Xris Xros said:


> The end is near.
> 
> Sign up for Lyft.


https://uberpeople.net/threads/lyft-sucks.217750/


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

DocT said:


> Never talk negative about a company you represent.
> But discussing the actual costs involved to maintain rideshare is honest.
> 
> A majority of riders that ask me about Uber believe:
> ...


If most of your riders believe this, most of your riders are morons. Because to believe this they'd have to believe that Uber pays for cars and gas and maintenance, plus an hourly wage, all while making $0.00 on each ride. Uber charity? A fifth grader could figure out the flaws in this equation.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Lol


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

This use to mean $40 for a 20 mile trip during peak time.....now it mean $21.75 on a 20 mile trip during peak time....and scrUber say this is a positive thing....this is corporate robbery...


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## Driver2448 (Mar 8, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> We need a 8 pm uber black out at the airport every night...


But you're always going to have that one guy who wants to get that extra $5.


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## fwdmarch (Aug 28, 2017)

bmedle said:


> Where do these people think Uber makes any money then? If Uber's providing a car, an hourly wage and the driver keeps every penny of what they're paying, there doesn't seem to be anything for Uber.
> 
> This kind of ignorance allows these companies to exist. When a pax wants to talk TNC, I give them the truth.


There are dumb Drivers AND dumb Pax.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Driver2448 said:


> But you're always going to have that one guy who wants to get that extra $5.


Itll be 100 of them.....


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## UberwithDan (Dec 2, 2016)

this is an absolute out rage. 180 days of change my ass! 180 of nightmare smore like! the only good stuff they added so far, most of it they alreayd took away and the 180 days isnt even over! what the F!!!

THis is not right! I bet they are still charging the customers by multiplier!


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

UberwithDan said:


> this is an absolute out rage. 180 days of change my ass! 180 of nightmare smore like! the only good stuff they added so far, most of it they alreayd took away and the 180 days isnt even over! what the F!!!
> 
> THis is not right! I bet they are still charging the customers by multiplier!


Who cares what the passenger gets charged. Our pay has no relationship to what the passenger pays now.


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## 1rightwinger (Jul 13, 2015)

grams777 said:


> As suspected, it looks like Uber is charging the riders a normal surge multiplier and only passing on a fraction to the driver.
> 
> In the fare reported above, Uber took about 2/3 of the surge.
> 
> ...


It is all making sense now. This is how uber is going to get to profibility in 6 months - by keeping most of the surge and paying driver "up front surge" or "flat rate surge" amount.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

1rightwinger said:


> It is all making sense now. This is how uber is going to get to profibility in 6 months - by keeping most of the surge and paying driver "up front surge" or "flat rate surge" amount.


But it seem it's only happening in Charlotte....


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## PorkRollUberAndCheese (Mar 13, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Now the surge is a flat dollar amount.....which means on long trips during surge we are completely screwed ...a 100 mile trip is usually around $80, if it's a 2x surge youll make $160, with the new system the most you'll make on a $5.00 surge is $85......surge is officially dead....


Where is the citation on this $5 cap?


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## surlywynch (Jun 22, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> But it seem it's only happening in Charlotte....


I think Denver, CO too.


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## UberwithDan (Dec 2, 2016)

Uberk5487 said:


> But it seem it's only happening in Charlotte....


they are piloting it in charlotte atm. they already tried it in chicago I am hearing, it didnt go well.


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## Alison Chains (Aug 18, 2017)

This might actually be an improvement in my college town even if it screws over everyone else. If all the transient phantom surges turn into longer, smaller real ones I'd be looking at a raise. If I can have greater confidence in the surge I can drive smarter and half a dollar a trip on a median fare of $6 is a tangible increase. Sure, it might kill the Long Trips but that's not my problem, is it?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Uberk5487 said:


> But it seem it's only happening in Charlotte....


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Well it worked in my favor today.....$10 surge on a short $7 trip......from what I notice certain parts of the airport lot surge at $1 and other part can be as high as $10



UberwithDan said:


> this is an absolute out rage. 180 days of change my ass! 180 of nightmare smore like! the only good stuff they added so far, most of it they alreayd took away and the 180 days isnt even over! what the F!!!
> 
> THis is not right! I bet they are still charging the customers by multiplier!


They are....


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Lol, more stealing from the driver by removing multipliers and adding dollar amounts, I guess they realized that this will not work without surge and are ready to start making it surge again at "?" multipliers.

First, you can't see destination.
Second, you are forced to take pool at the airport.
Third, Uber takes 25 to 60% of the fare at random theft mode.
Fourth, you can't see surge multiplier.

How are we still IC, Is the gov that much brain dead?


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Speaking for myself, even though I'd like to tell the riders just how bad uber treats their drivers, I bite my tongue.
> 
> Most of my riders seem to like uber and lyft, and I figure if I criticize or complain about uber it could backfire into a 1-star rating.
> 
> I suspect most other drivers act the same way, which gives the riders a false idea that the drivers are satisfied with uber.


Yea I grin and bear....and say it's a cool job....which it is the perfect job for me, because the way my low tolerance is set up.....I don't like being stuck inside with snobby supervisors, shoulder to shoulder with miserable coworkers working 8-12 hour shifts for $8-$12 a hour just hating every minute of the day.....while Uber could be better....for me the alternative is still much worst.....


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

grams777 said:


> We really need to catch what the pax pays or multiplier is on a trip versus what the driver surge is.


With up-front pricing, who cares? You *know* that Uber is charging the rider *anything* they want and not sharing that extra money with you. You *know* that this is Uber's way to now almost completely cut drivers out of surge amounts, too. Until drivers wisen up and find a way to band together this devious Uber behavior will continue. I realize that it is very, very unlikely to ever happen, but all that is needed is for all drivers to boycott Uber together for one day. Uber would be whistling a different tune in a hurry!



Uberk5487 said:


> Well it worked in my favor today.....$10 surge on a short $7 trip......from what I notice certain parts of the airport lot surge at $1 and other part can be as high as $10.


Are you sure it worked in your favor? Maybe that trip was a 3.5x surge and you got screwed out of another $14.50!


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

Friendly Jack said:


> With up-front pricing, who cares? You *know* that Uber is charging the rider *anything* they want and not sharing that extra money with you. You *know* that this is Uber's way to now almost completely cut drivers out of surge amounts, too. Until drivers wisen up and find a way to band together this devious Uber behavior will continue. I realize that it is very, very unlikely to ever happen, but all that is needed is for all drivers to boycott Uber together for one day. Uber would be whistling a different tune in a hurry!
> 
> Are you sure it worked in your favor? Maybe that trip was a 3.5x surge and you got screwed out of another $14.50!


At the airport it only goes up to 1.9 x


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

I'll say whats been said many times because it is so stunning to really think about. 

If we got the word out through a campaign of awareness that actually worked, 1 day of 90 percent of drivers not doing pickups would cause a emergency meeting at Uber within hours. If Uber had the fear that at any time drivers could shut down the system they would be forced to concede and make drivers a real percentage partner.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

MoreTips said:


> I'll say whats been said many times because it is so stunning to really think about.
> 
> If we got the word out through a campaign of awareness that actually worked, 1 day of 90 percent of drivers not doing pickups would cause a emergency meeting at Uber within hours. If Uber had the fear that at any time drivers could shut down the system they would be forced to concede and make drivers a real percentage partner.


But alot of drivers are so far up Travis and Ubers rear end, that they'll never do it....I'm sure if I handed out flyer suggesting something like that %50 of the drivers I hand them to would turn me in to Uber.....


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

Uberk5487 said:


> Remember we're not allow to know what the pax pay....I just know I got $4 less for a trip that 4.5 mile and 4 min longer....


We are in SF:








tho anyone is _allow_ to. U just have to ask them. Or use the rider app to see the price (a lot of trouble if yr device isn't super fast, but we are _allowed_ to, even if u don't have the fare details option in yr trip reports where ur at).



Uberk5487 said:


> But alot of drivers are so far up Travis and Ubers rear end, that they'll never do it....I'm sure if I handed out flyer suggesting something like that %50 of the drivers I hand them to would turn me in to Uber.....


Sadly that may be true. They announced some "event" in SF to give away & install these glowy Uber icons in the car, and apparently a lot of drivers showed up for it. Voluntarily. It was surging in SF during that time, quite a bit more, & for a longer period than usual past morning commute til like 12:30pm. Maybe a coincidence, but could've been _that_ many drivers went and waited in line, for like an hour according to the two dimwits in our forum who went. Voluntarily. To get a stupid glowy icon when they coulda been working that morning surge since they're out driving. They went Voluntarily. Smh so badly I had to see a chiropractor.



Uberk5487 said:


> Yea I grin and bear....and say it's a cool job....which it is the perfect job for me, because the way my low tolerance is set up.....I don't like being stuck inside with snobby supervisors, shoulder to shoulder with miserable coworkers working 8-12 hour shifts for $8-$12 a hour just hating every minute of the day.....while Uber could be better....for me the alternative is still much worst.....


The alternative is much worse, or is the worst?
And I think Uber knows this about full time drivers. It's probably why raising pay will never be on the table. They made little concessions instead, like paid wait time (for pennies per minute) and friendlier cancel fees. Genuine improvements that cost them nothing.


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## jrich6234 (Mar 27, 2017)

jrich6234 said:


> My response to Uber -
> 
> It's Saturday night and before I read this, I was all set to go drive.
> 
> ...


Just an update for those who were wondering...

Didn't drive Saturday or Sunday. Drove a little on Monday, none on Tuesday.

If Uber thinks they've spent 180 days inspiring me to drive more, I'm afraid they're mistaken.

It's my car at risk, my money spent on maintenance, gas, insurance and cleaning fees. If they want to value that at $3 per passenger, they can find someone else to take that bet.

In the words of my favorite tv show (Shark Tank) - there's nothing in it for me, I'm out.


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

its worse than this, pax shows me uber message "demand is high prices are increased for busy commute hours" no surge on my end pax paying almost double for airport trip than normal. yeah fixed pricing to screw drivers


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

UberAntMakingPeanuts said:


> Amazing 180 days of change!!! I'm so happy with Uber!!! Wow our patients during these hard times really paid off!!! Yayyyyy!!! Is this for real though?


Ubers is a complete joke! Unless they were willing to blow up the way they have been previously operating, nothing was going to change. A struggling company, drivers bottom of the heap, equals 180 days of negative change! Long term, Ubers failure would be of benefit to most.


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## Agustinac08 (Nov 14, 2017)

good point, the maximum amount of miles I got is 25 miles.


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## Cndragon (Dec 8, 2016)

Uberk5487 said:


> This use to mean $40 for a 20 mile trip during peak time.....now it mean $21.75 on a 20 mile trip during peak time....and scrUber say this is a positive thing....this is corporate robbery...


This made my eyes water...its like looking into the sun.

You really should put a warning before you post something like this....


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## kbrown (Dec 3, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Now the surge is a flat dollar amount.....which means on long trips during surge we are completely screwed ...a 100 mile trip is usually around $80, if it's a 2x surge youll make $160, with the new system the most you'll make on a $5.00 surge is $85......surge is officially dead....


Here is what we drivers need to do.

When you get the call and accept the ride, they tell you how much you'll get, from the sounds of this.

Bring a calculator with you. This will take some math work, as well as using Waze to determine what you'll need to drive to balance out to what Fuber is limiting us to making. You will also need to carry copies of the Fuber announcement to give to your passenger.

When you start the trip, use Waze to see what the distance will be. This is where the calculator will come in handy. Please hand the Fuber announcement to your passenger and let them know you will need a moment to calculate out the mileage of their upcoming trip.

You know how much you make for the base rate after Uber takes their 20%/25% of their cut. So if you divide the amount Uber is paying you by your base rate, then you know how many miles you will need to drive to receive what you're supposed to make without being ripped off by Fuber.

Go back to Waze. Look for the option that gives you the shortest route to achieving that mileage that's needed to hit what Fuber is going to pay you. Take whatever that trip is.

Inform the passenger of the new Fuber way of ripping off the driver. If the mileage exceeds what Fuber is going to pay, then inform the passenger that you can take them within X miles/blocks of their destination. If the mileage doesn't exceed what Fuber is going to pay, then pick the nearest Waze option that gets the passenger to their destination. Drop them, and then drive circles until you hit the mileage you calculated. We all know if you don't hit the mileage that Fuber claims they're going to pay, they WILL default and pay you based off the mileage you performed.

If you follow these instructions, not only will you be paid off your mileage performed, there will be no doubt that 1) passengers will be upset, but aware of how Fuber is forcing drivers to shortchange their trips (and yes, they will be mad at you too), 2) Fuber will understand that drivers cannot be underestimated, and we are not stupid sheep, 3) you will be paid for what you do, and 4) best of all, Fuber is screwed if they continue this ridiculous method of payment.

If all else fails, drive other rideshares and give up Fuber. They aren't worth the stress when they're sweating us out like this and undercut what we make because they're cheap bastards.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Uberk5487 said:


> Remember we're not allow to know what the pax pay....I just know I got $4 less for a trip that 4.5 mile and 4 min longer....


You can always see what pax pay for their trip. Just go to "Fare Details" and you have the full breakdown of payment.


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## Tonybdavies (Jan 23, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Who the hell's gonna bother dealing with shitshows at ballparks and other pain in the ass locales without a legitimate surge?


The illegal aliens will fill your vacancy no problemo


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## JerseyBoy911 (Nov 14, 2015)

Tonybdavies said:


> The illegal aliens will fill your vacancy no problemo


Illegals? Really dude? Come on...


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## Respeckable Driver (May 22, 2016)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Drivers gotta do something, seriously if we don't push back there will be no way to make money.


Boycott the airport. Only do drop-offs at the airport. NO PICK UPS at the airport (unless u happen to catch a surge rematch). Share this with 2-3 drivers u know, and tell them to share 2-3 drivers they know.


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## JerseyBoy911 (Nov 14, 2015)

Respeckable Driver said:


> Boycott the airport. Only do drop-offs at the airport. NO PICK UPS at the airport (unless u happen to catch a surge rematch). Share this with 2-3 drivers u know, and tell them to share 2-3 drivers they know.


This sounds good man, on paper. But once you start speaking to drivers you start to realize that 90% of Uber drivers are a special kinda stupid. And with stupid ppl they always think someone is trying to take advantage of their stupid ass.. so they are suspicious of any advice. They'll just think you'll want all the Airport pick ups for yourself.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

In LV, I've done about 1,700 airport dropoffs. I've done about 10 pickups. The airport sucks...wait 20-50 minutes for a ride? That gets old in a hurry.


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## conductorchik (Jan 9, 2018)

Uberk5487 said:


> Now the surge is a flat dollar amount.....which means on long trips during surge we are completely screwed ...a 100 mile trip is usually around $80, if it's a 2x surge youll make $160, with the new system the most you'll make on a $5.00 surge is $85......surge is officially dead....


BUUUUT the passenger will still pay a gajillion dollars and you receive hardly anything of it.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Wow, Uber really has learned nothing from class-actions against them. Did the upfront pricing suit(s) not attack these VERY arguments? You're only allowed to take 20%. Uber was like, "Nuh-uh, we can do whatever we want. If the driver wants to know what the passenger is paying, all they have to do is ask the passenger. We didn't dupe anyone in this BOGUS lawsuit - it's the drivers fault."

And now Uber's like, yea, we're gonna start taking upwards of 80 percent commission (if we want) and flip the tables.

I maintain they're headed for a collapse. Uber might not want old drivers on their platform anymore - drivers that see the change and give the finger, but new drivers become old, and let's be honest, Uber will just do something even more extreme six months after this new Surge pricing takes effect. Drivers will quit in mass when they realize they're being taken for 80%, that they're earning less than minimum-wage, etc.

When New Surge comes to your town, take none of those calls. Yes, demand will backbuild and customers will balk (all of them) at $80 rides home from the club every night.

Collapse the system. And get a new side hustle as of NOW.


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