# Tax Return?



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

So I had a job for 6 months in 2017 before turning to Lyft/Uber. I claimed 0 at that job. I usually got a return from there. In the 6 month she following I probably made about $15,000 tops with Lyft and Uber. I have been using stride to calculate my deductions for mileage and everything else and it says I’ll be able to deduct about $6,500. I also pay student loans, so I have a 1098e.

Can anyone tell me how to calculate whether or not I’ll get a return? I really hope so.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

There are a lot of variables, like total taxable income, how much you made on your job, exemptions, deductions, etc, so there's no way to guess whether you will get a refund or owe taxes. But probably the easiest way is to get Turbotax Deluxe CD ($39.86 at Costco) or another tax program. Be sure it includes Schedule C, which you'll need to show your profit or loss from driving ride share. Add up your bank deposits and subtract your mileage and other expenses like cell phone bills, etc to determine your net profit.

T/T will walk you through with questions about your income and deductions. If you use T/T in the online format, they will make you upgrade to a more expensive version called something like Home and Business.

It's good that you have paid in on your other job- that will help with the taxes you will owe on your Uber/Lyft earnings. In addition to income tax, you will owe self employment (FICA) on your profit from driving if it is at least $400. You and your employer each paid half of 15.3% FICA taxes on your previous job. You'll pay the whole thing by yourself on your profit.

BTW, you ask about getting a "return." FYI, you file a tax return, and hope for a tax "refund."  Good luck.

Disclosure: I am not a tax professional.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Brittany Craighead said:


> So I had a job for 6 months in 2017 before turning to Lyft/Uber. I claimed 0 at that job. I usually got a return from there. In the 6 month she following I probably made about $15,000 tops with Lyft and Uber. I have been using stride to calculate my deductions for mileage and everything else and it says I'll be able to deduct about $6,500. I also pay student loans, so I have a 1098e.
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to calculate whether or not I'll get a return? I really hope so.


Just from your U/L net revenue of $8500 you'll owe SE tax of $1300. Although it's hard to figure your income tax without knowing your total income and all your personal deductions.


----------



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

That’s why I say I made about $15,000 with u/l and my total deductions (mileage, food, car washes, etc.) came to $6500. Plus I’ll be getting a refund from my other job because I claimed 0. And I always get money back from paying on my student loans. I’m wondering if we are just talking about Uber and Lyft, if I owe $4000 for example, and my deductions come to $6700, does that mean I’ll get $2700 back? I’m confused.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Brittany Craighead said:


> That's why I say I made about $15,000 with u/l and my total deductions (mileage, food, car washes, etc.) came to $6500. Plus I'll be getting a refund from my other job because I claimed 0. And I always get money back from paying on my student loans. I'm wondering if we are just talking about Uber and Lyft, if I owe $4000 for example, and my deductions come to $6700, does that mean I'll get $2700 back? I'm confused.


I really think you're missing the big picture. You are now a business owner. The net earnings for U/L of $8,500 is profit from a business. Before you even think of any income tax you must pay the self employment tax of 15.3% for the $8,500 profit you made from that business, which is roughly $1300.

After you pay the mandatory self employment tax then you take the same $8,500 and add that to your other income and then you pay income tax on that. Self employment tax and income tax are two completely separate items. Welcome to business ownership 101.


----------



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

Well of course im missing the “big picture,” guy. I have a bachelors degree in criminal justice, not accounting or business. I work in law enforcement not an office. Don’t belittle me because I don’t know how taxes work for “self employers.” Most people don’t. Honestly, I think any sort of business people are tool bags. I’m doing it temporarily for the money, I don’t care about being self employed. Therefore, I am not going to learn about how the taxes work. I am asking a simple question. I gave all the numbers, so if you have the answer then give it to me. If not, then stop replying.

Also, I don’t know where you are getting $8500. Stop using numbers that aren’t relevant.


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Mileage is the biggest deduction by far, it includes all car costs. Food is not a deduction unless you are feeding it to pax. No matter what you do, you have to eat... be sure to include "dead" miles, all the miles while the app is on and you can accept a ride.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Brittany Craighead said:


> I am asking a simple question.
> 
> Also, I don't know where you are getting $8500. Stop using numbers that aren't relevant.


And I gave you a simple answer in my 1st post. You owe $1300 in SE tax.

It is impossible for anyone to even think to calculate your income tax based on a thousand different factors ie; total income, qualifying dependents, home ownership, 401k/retirement, tuition loans, medical expenses/COBRA, capital gains, charitable contributions etc.

The $8,500 is the number I retracted from your original post. You posted that you made $15,000 from U/L and with using the Stride App you have $6,500 in operating expenses. That leaves you with a profit of $8500.

Don't feel bad about not knowing business ownership and self employment taxes. I would estimate that 95% of Uber/Lyft drivers have no clue either. Drivers are just as clueless with Business/Commercial auto insurance. Ignorance is what Uber loves most about their drivers.



LAuberX said:


> Mileage is the biggest deduction by far, it includes all car costs. Food is not a deduction unless you are feeding it to pax.


Not entirely accurate. Many drivers from smaller towns will travel and stay overnight in cities where Uber is abundant. You are allowed a daily allowance for tax deductible food. You must be at least 50 miles from your residence and stay overnight. Most drivers sleep in their vehicles so they cannot claim accommodations.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

LAuberX said:


> Mileage is the biggest deduction by far, it includes all car costs. Food is not a deduction unless you are feeding it to pax. No matter what you do, you have to eat... be sure to include "dead" miles, all the miles while the app is on and you can accept a ride.


I don't know why your last post is not posted yet, but I received your post in an email. Here's IRS Publication Schedule SE.








You've been self employed for the past 15 years and never paid Social Security? Yikes!!! Don't you get a Social Security status form every year stating what you'll receive in benefits when you retire?


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Brittany Craighead said:


> Well of course im missing the "big picture," guy. I have a bachelors degree in criminal justice, not accounting or business. I work in law enforcement not an office. Don't belittle me because I don't know how taxes work for "self employers." Most people don't. Honestly, I think any sort of business people are tool bags. I'm doing it temporarily for the money, I don't care about being self employed. Therefore, I am not going to learn about how the taxes work. I am asking a simple question. I gave all the numbers, so if you have the answer then give it to me. If not, then stop replying.
> 
> Also, I don't know where you are getting $8500. Stop using numbers that aren't relevant.


Wow! Why the attitude? Based on your original post, SEAL Team 5 and I tried to offer advice to help you. Neither of us intended to "belittle " you. But now you say you don't want to learn about how the taxes work. And you didn't give "all the numbers," in fact, far from it. To answer your simple question would by definition mean teaching you about taxes, so that you would be able to calculate whether you will get a refund.

I inferred from your first post that you had left the job you held for six months. But now it sounds like you are still working full time in law inforcement. It's very possible that you aren't paying FICA in that position, if your agency participates in a public safety retirement plan. My son has thirty years in as a sworn LEO, and has not paid a nickle into Social Security in that job. However, like it or not, you are self employed, and will have to pay FICA (aka Self Employment taxes) on that very relevant $8500. SEAL Team 5 correctly took the minimal numbers you supplied to calculate your FICA, which has a direct impact on whether you will get a refund. After all, you did ask how to calculate your tax liability. He also tried to explain that you need to add the self employment net profit to your income from other sources, as taxes are determined on your total income. As I mentioned in my earlier post, your having claimed zero on your main job will help cover the increase in taxes due to self employment profits.

The bottom line is that you will need a tax professional to prepare and file your tax returns. It's too complicated for a lot of people, and I don't mind saying that I have been using a CPA for mine for nearly twenty years. I'm going to do my own with TurboTax this year, having used it the last few years to practice and learn what my tax guy was doing.

Finally, if you are indeed in law enforcement as a sworn officer, you are bound to be in frequent contact with the business people that you consider to be "tool bags." I hope you have a better attitude on the street than you're displaying here. Maybe you are with an agency that runs corrections facilities, and you don't deal with the business people who pay your salary, in part based on their self employment.


----------



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

Wow. You aren’t very smart, are you? I will say no more on it, and will find out how to block you. Go get an education. It will do you some good.


----------



## bk102 (Nov 30, 2016)

Brittany Craighead said:


> Wow. You aren't very smart, are you? I will say no more on it, and will find out how to block you. Go get an education. It will do you some good.


I didn't read the drama above so you might have already gotten the answer to this but.... the bottom line is if you deduct more than you make from uber you don't get the difference back. you get to deduct that difference from your overall income thus reducing your tax obligation so you will receive some of that difference back.

example

8500 from regular job. made 5000 with uber but deductions were 7000. I now only pay taxes on 6500 from my regular job because that 2000 was a loss.

hope it helps and I wasn't being repetitive.


----------



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

This was the ONLY helpful thing said, thank you.


----------



## bk102 (Nov 30, 2016)

no problem. I uber for the tax deduction. I drive 40 miles each way to work. All of it tax deductible because my app is on. I rarely pick anyone up. Last year I made 625 from Uber and will deduct 22,000 in uber expenses. My "side" business, uber, shows a loss of that amount off of my income and the IRS says it is perfectly legit for 3 years. My tax guy has done meticulous research on this and was the one who suggested it.


----------



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

Wow I didn’t know I could do that. I’ll be doing it now. Thank you.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

bk102 said:


> no problem. I uber for the tax deduction. I drive 40 miles each way to work. All of it tax deductible because my app is on. I rarely pick anyone up. Last year I made 625 from Uber and will deduct 22,000 in uber expenses. My "side" business, uber, shows a loss of that amount off of my income and the IRS says it is perfectly legit for 3 years. My tax guy has done meticulous research on this and was the one who suggested it.


So what I'm gathering from this is that all the miles from your necessary commute to and from work are tax deductible because you have the Uber app on? Even if you didn't have the Uber app on this commute at the precise time of day would be necessary? You're showing a $22,000 loss with a revenue of only $625? I would prepare to get audited if I were you.

I think those necessary miles whether you have the app on or not are going to come back and bite you in the ass. According to Uber's destination filter (which I assume you're using during your 40 mile exact direction commute) you will only be matched to someone traveling in your direction. I'm pretty sure the only miles that are tax deductible will be when you accept a ping and proceed to pick up that pax. That's like me taking a day trip to San Diego and just because I have the app on my entire driving expenses are tax deductible. I don't know why your tax preparer said that your normal everyday routine commute to your usual employment is tax deductible? Hopefully he can explain this within the parameters of the tax code to the IRS if you're ever audited. Good luck.


----------



## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

bk102 said:


> no problem. I uber for the tax deduction. I drive 40 miles each way to work. All of it tax deductible because my app is on. I rarely pick anyone up. Last year I made 625 from Uber and will deduct 22,000 in uber expenses. My "side" business, uber, shows a loss of that amount off of my income and the IRS says it is perfectly legit for 3 years. My tax guy has done meticulous research on this and was the one who suggested it.


You might want to check out a few other "tax guys" ASAP. His research is not meticulous and I hope you didn't have to pay for it. Schedule C losses used to offset W-2 income is a target for the IRS. It's very easy for the IRS's computers to pick up. The 3 year thing is BS, maybe you misunderstood him?


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> You might want to check out a few other "tax guys" ASAP. His research is not meticulous and I hope you didn't have to pay for it. Schedule C losses used to offset W-2 income is a target for the IRS. It's very easy for the IRS's computers to pick up. The 3 year thing is BS, maybe you misunderstood him?


Uber needs to hire you for teaching a mandatory self employment tax class to all drivers before they begin.

On second thought, scratch that. I'd rather read some of the "far out" posts that people think they can get away with.


----------



## NUBER-LE (Jul 21, 2017)

NO! You did not pay any taxes. Done.

Deductions do not mean a return, they only mean you wont pay taxes. That does not mean you get back what is left over.



bk102 said:


> no problem. I uber for the tax deduction. I drive 40 miles each way to work. All of it tax deductible because my app is on. I rarely pick anyone up. Last year I made 625 from Uber and will deduct 22,000 in uber expenses. My "side" business, uber, shows a loss of that amount off of my income and the IRS says it is perfectly legit for 3 years. My tax guy has done meticulous research on this and was the one who suggested it.


625 and you are claiming 22,000 in expenses. You are a POS scammer.


----------



## Brittany Craighead (Jun 8, 2017)

Where is the Uber 1099k form? Is it just taking forever? I got Lyft’s today.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> You might want to check out a few other "tax guys" ASAP. His research is not meticulous and I hope you didn't have to pay for it. Schedule C losses used to offset W-2 income is a target for the IRS. It's very easy for the IRS's computers to pick up. The 3 year thing is BS, maybe you misunderstood him?


Could his tax guy be referring to the IRS rules about making a profit in 3 out of 5 years or having your business categorized as a non deductible hobby?
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/business-or-hobby-answer-has-implications-for-deductions

It doesn't say you can cheat for three years without risk of prosecution!


----------



## bk102 (Nov 30, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> So what I'm gathering from this is that all the miles from your necessary commute to and from work are tax deductible because you have the Uber app on? Even if you didn't have the Uber app on this commute at the precise time of day would be necessary? You're showing a $22,000 loss with a revenue of only $625? I would prepare to get audited if I were you.
> 
> I think those necessary miles whether you have the app on or not are going to come back and bite you in the ass. According to Uber's destination filter (which I assume you're using during your 40 mile exact direction commute) you will only be matched to someone traveling in your direction. I'm pretty sure the only miles that are tax deductible will be when you accept a ping and proceed to pick up that pax. That's like me taking a day trip to San Diego and just because I have the app on my entire driving expenses are tax deductible. I don't know why your tax preparer said that your normal everyday routine commute to your usual employment is tax deductible? Hopefully he can explain this within the parameters of the tax code to the IRS if you're ever audited. Good luck.


It is a FACT that the dead miles you drive with uber are deductible. No matter how many or where you are going. Uber is a side business and I would welcome an audit as I have documented every inch of those miles.



Older Chauffeur said:


> Could his tax guy be referring to the IRS rules about making a profit in 3 out of 5 years or having your business categorized as a non deductible hobby?
> https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/business-or-hobby-answer-has-implications-for-deductions
> 
> It doesn't say you can cheat for three years without risk of prosecution!


Not cheating every mile is legit



UberTaxPro said:


> You might want to check out a few other "tax guys" ASAP. His research is not meticulous and I hope you didn't have to pay for it. Schedule C losses used to offset W-2 income is a target for the IRS. It's very easy for the IRS's computers to pick up. The 3 year thing is BS, maybe you misunderstood him?


Not at all. You can have a side loss for 3 years before the irs considers it a hobby. Not sure where all the hostility comesnfrom, just using a loophole the IRS provides


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

bk102 said:


> It is a FACT that the dead miles you drive with uber are deductible. No matter how many or where you are going. Uber is a side business and I would welcome an audit as I have documented every inch of those miles.


Those are not dead miles. Those are miles that you must perform in your everyday life as they pertain to your W-2 employment. If that was the case then why don't you just keep your app on 24/7 and deduct every single mile you drive? Why doesn't everyone in the country join Uber and drive with their app on deducting every inch of those miles?

Why don't you go all out and claim Uber as a home base business and say that you need office and garage space for your business. I'm sure claiming 50% of household expenses for home office use will be perfectly fine for a business that only uses a phone app.

Do as you please, use every loophole you can.


----------



## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Brittany Craighead said:


> Wow I didn't know I could do that. I'll be doing it now. Thank you.





bk102 said:


> It is a FACT that the dead miles you drive with uber are deductible. No matter how many or where you are going. Uber is a side business and I would welcome an audit as I have documented every inch of those miles.
> 
> Not cheating every mile is legit
> 
> Not at all. You can have a side loss for 3 years before the irs considers it a hobby. Not sure where all the hostility comesnfrom, just using a loophole the IRS provides


No hostility, just trying to keep you and everyone that reads this out of trouble!


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Brittany Craighead said:


> Where is the Uber 1099k form? Is it just taking forever? I got Lyft's today.


It just has to be postmarked by midnight Jan 31. Uber still has a week.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

I would love to be a fly on the wall when someone explains this interpretation of the regulations to an IRS agent.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> I would love to be a fly on the wall when someone explains this interpretation of the regulations to an IRS agent.


The last question in that room will be "How much in interest and penalties?"


----------



## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The last question in that room will be "How much in interest and penalties?"


Or, "is this a civil or criminal case"?


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> Or, "is this a civil or criminal case?


I was audited back in '05 and I'll tell you what. They made me feel like a criminal. I was in my 4th year of self employment. Thank God I have a CPA/Tax accountant that only sees black and white. He does not see gray.

The biggest misconception is that people say the IRS can only go back 7 years. Bullcrap, the IRS can go back 1,000 years if they want.



UberTaxPro said:


> Or, "is this a civil or criminal case"?


Or, "What's the chance of getting Pete Rose's old prison cell?"


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

^^^ or Al Capone's...... 
They may only audit one driver out of ten thousand, but I don't want to be that guy.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> ^^^ or Al Capone's......
> They may only audit one driver out of ten thousand, but I don't want to be that guy.


I thought that Capone's permanent prison cell was one of the end zones in The Meadowlands.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

With Jimmy Hoffa?


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

bk102 said:


> Last year I made 625 from Uber and will deduct 22,000 in uber expenses.


Not to beat a dead horse, but I just spoke with a professional on an unrelated topic and I brought up your scenario. I asked him if line 1 on Schedule C is only $625 and line 9 on Schedule C is $22,000 with all deductions arriving from miles of one vehicle then what is the outcome. He looked at me and his first words were "You want to lose your home?"

Not to belittle you in any way or doubt your intelligence, but definitely get a second opinion before you file your taxes this year.


----------



## bk102 (Nov 30, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Not to beat a dead horse, but I just spoke with a professional on an unrelated topic and I brought up your scenario. I asked him if line 1 on Schedule C is only $625 and line 9 on Schedule C is $22,000 with all deductions arriving from miles of one vehicle then what is the outcome. He looked at me and his first words were "You want to lose your home?"
> 
> Not to belittle you in any way or doubt your intelligence, but definitely get a second opinion before you file your taxes this year.


I do understand this will throw up red flags. I do not intend to have that much of a difference, however your professional should also know their is no cap to your losses in a side business. Common sense however dictates you cant take a 22,000 loss on 600 of income. There are scenarios though, say your side business required the purchase of major equipment. It is ill advised but not illegal.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

bk102 said:


> There are scenarios though, say your side business required the purchase of major equipment. It is ill advised but not illegal.


You're 100% correct with deductions on major purchases for a start up business, but your deductions are based solely on miles driven.


----------

