# Help me understand!



## mtchavez (Mar 31, 2017)

What I don't understand how a company that uses others peoples vehicles for next to nothing and can't show a profit. Can make money after buying thier own vehicles? What are the self driving cars that cheap? After the cost of the car then repairs and tires etc. Vandalism. It doesn't make "cents".


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

mtchavez said:


> What I don't understand how a company that uses others peoples vehicles for next to nothing and can't show a profit. Can make money after buying thier own vehicles? What are the self driving cars that cheap? After the cost of the car then repairs and tires etc. Vandalism. It doesn't make "cents".


Uber only charges riders about 41% of the cost, which is why it is so easy for them to lose money.
Plus they have a bunch of suckers investors who believe everything TK is saying.
Uber's biggest cost is what it pays to human drivers, eliminate that and even after the cost of SDCs, Uber can make a profit.


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## aJoe (May 17, 2017)

Maven said:


> Uber only charges riders about 41% of the cost, which is why it is so easy for them to lose money.
> Plus they have a bunch of suckers investors who believe everything TK is saying.
> Uber's biggest cost is what it pays to human drivers, eliminate that and even after the cost of SDCs, Uber can make a profit.


That's a bad assumption. Uber is stealing from customers and drivers by over charging pax and paying drivers for miles driven.

When they start with self driving cars all they are going to have is mostly no shows because the cars won't know where to go. Pax are going to start cancelling their accounts. Self driving cars will cost a lot, why give up free slave labor that you pay so poorly many don't even earn $1 an hour in income, free cars, free maintenance and free gas to buy cars that can only take one to 4 people at a time and it still takes them a half hour to get around the city. They can only do so many rides a day, not enough to be profitable.

Uber is going to cut out their biggest investors, their drivers who give trillions of dollars worth of free cars and free gas to use.

Uber needs to treat the drivers better and pay them more per mile and then both Uber and the driver wins instead of stealing from the customer and driver.


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## mtchavez (Mar 31, 2017)

This also what I think.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

aJoe said:


> That's a bad assumption. Uber is stealing from customers and drivers by over charging pax and paying drivers for miles driven.


Wrong! Uber is not stealing, defined as taking another's money or property without prior consent. PAX give consent whenever they use the rider-Application. Uber is not over charging PAX. Certain programs give less of a discount to the PAX. Most drivers , including me, dislike the fact that Uber does not share any of the greater fare with drivers in these situations. Uber pays the standard rate to drivers and keeps 100% of the rest.


aJoe said:


> When they start with self driving cars all they are going to have is mostly no shows because the cars won't know where to go. Pax are going to start cancelling their accounts. Self driving cars will cost a lot, why give up free slave labor that you pay so poorly many don't even earn $1 an hour in income, free cars, free maintenance and free gas to buy cars that can only take one to 4 people at a time and it still takes them a half hour to get around the city. They can only do so many rides a day, not enough to be profitable.


Every problem that you list has already been addressed elsewhere in this forum.


aJoe said:


> Uber is going to cut out their biggest investors, their drivers who give trillions of dollars worth of free cars and free gas to use.


Drivers are independent contractors, *not* investors. Independent contractors are paid for their services. Investors are given equity in the corporation.


aJoe said:


> Uber needs to treat the drivers better and pay them more per mile and then both Uber and the driver wins instead of stealing from the customer and driver.


Agree with "treat the drivers better and pay them more per mile". Disagree with "stealing from the customer and driver".


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## aJoe (May 17, 2017)

Maven said:


> Wrong! Uber is not stealing, defined as taking another's money or property without prior consent. PAX give consent whenever they use the rider-Application. Uber is not over charging PAX. Certain programs give less of a discount to the PAX. Most drivers , including me, dislike the fact that Uber does not share any of the greater fare with drivers in these situations. Uber pays the standard rate to drivers and keeps 100% of the rest.
> 
> Every problem that you list has already been addressed elsewhere in this forum.
> 
> ...


We are the same as the regular investors they will get fleeced too. I meant we subsidized rides. and you may not call when they do when they overcharge and pay us less theft, but I do.

Telling people not to tip is also stealing from me. Now if a pax does not want to tip from point A to B that's fine. But is a pax has luggage, groceries or asks for a stop or a special favor they should tip and I am doing extra work that I am not paid for which would be paid with a tip since we are taxi drivers.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is an idiot. There is a world wide problem against the common man if you cant see that the common man gets treated like the enemy of state the you are part of the problem. 

Make everything centralized cuz its "easier" so as man doesnt have to do anything anymore and can ride on seats in a virtual world like wall-e. Yea everything is fine man is slaved but AI has freedom. 

Anyone putting any self assistance shit in my truck ill kick their ass. I know how to drive and im not serving no danm computer. Ive already screwed around with my company truck to make me over-ride the lane assistance on it. Danm lane-assistance kept shakeing and jerking truck in under passes and shadows. Too much BS in vehicald just let me drive


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

aJoe said:


> We are the same as the regular investors they will get fleeced too. I meant we subsidized rides. and you may not call when they do when they overcharge and pay us less theft, but I do.
> 
> Telling people not to tip is also stealing from me. Now if a pax does not want to tip from point A to B that's fine. But is a pax has luggage, groceries or asks for a stop or a special favor they should tip and I am doing extra work that I am not paid for which would be paid with a tip since we are taxi drivers.


Most of the investors are happy, if a bit nervous, unlike most drivers, who are not. "On paper" their investment is worth more than $70 billion, many times their initial investment. They are waiting for the IPO to "cash-out". The IPO has been delayed indefinitely by all the negative press, but if and when Uber gets some good news, the IPO may happen quickly.

Uber excels at skirting the "edge of the law", their entire business is built on this skill. Legally, both riders and drivers agree to Uber's morally questionable practices. That does not make Uber right, but it does protect them legally.

I agree that PAX should tip for luggage, groceries extra stops and other special favors, but they are not required to legally or by Uber.  As an independent contractor, you have the right to refuse to transport any PAX for any reason at any time. If you have not started the trip then the PAX cannot even give a bad rating.


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## aJoe (May 17, 2017)

Maven said:


> Most of the investors are happy, if a bit nervous, unlike most drivers, who are not. "On paper" their investment is worth more than $70 billion, many times their initial investment. They are waiting for the IPO to "cash-out". The IPO has been delayed indefinitely by all the negative press, but if and when Uber gets some good news, the IPO may happen quickly.
> 
> Uber excels at skirting the "edge of the law", their entire business is built on this skill. Legally, both riders and drivers agree to Uber's morally questionable practices. That does not make Uber right, but it does protect them legally.
> 
> I agree that PAX should tip for luggage, groceries extra stops and other special favors, but they are not required to legally or by Uber.  As an independent contractor, you have the right to refuse to transport any PAX for any reason at any time. If you have not started the trip then the PAX cannot even give a bad rating.


You can't refuse a person with a service dog or who says they have a service dog without being deactivated right away if not fired. Other than that yeah you can refuse anyone, and still face false allegations if they took a screen shot of the ride or have access to the canceled ride info.

and those investors have little or no votes or say in the way Uber is run because Travis runs the whole show, he has supervotes and can appoint anyone to his board and even appoint people who have to no votes or say so in the way the company is run. He seems to be a sociopath at best. His win at any costs scenario is dangerous.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Maven said:


> Uber only charges riders about 41% of the cost, which is why it is so easy for them to lose money.
> Plus they have a bunch of suckers investors who believe everything TK is saying.
> Uber's biggest cost is what it pays to human drivers, eliminate that and even after the cost of SDCs, Uber can make a profit.


With the emergence of the upfront fare scam and heavier Pool rides, and suspension of SDC, expect the companies losses to go way down starting this year.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

PrestonT said:


> With the emergence of the upfront fare scam and heavier Pool rides, and suspension of SDC, expect the companies losses to go way down starting this year.


I do not expect the "upfront fare scam and heavier Pool rides" to make Uber profitable. Uber may lose money at a slower rate. Of course, I have no way of knowing how much because Uber does not share that information.

Only two things would make Uber profitable, tripling current fares or widespread implementation of SDCs. SDCs may be temporarily suspended by one or more companies, but too many other companies continue to make progress.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

I agree that it won't make them profitable. But I would guess that if their loss is leaked this year, it will be in the 10-15% ballpark.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

mtchavez said:


> What I don't understand how a company that uses others peoples vehicles for next to nothing and can't show a profit. Can make money after buying thier own vehicles? What are the self driving cars that cheap? After the cost of the car then repairs and tires etc. Vandalism. It doesn't make "cents".


that's the thing Travis and Co. fails to grasp. The whole point is to make them cheaper rides than they are now. These machines are not going to allow UBer to charge cheaper than the rates are now, and if that is true, as i believe it is, what is the point? Replacing 400,000 drivers with Uber owned driverlesscars, means warehouses, technicians, garage mechanics, admin personel, etc., all over the world. I can't see the rate going cheaper than it is now, I see it going higher, much higher.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> that's the thing Travis and Co. fails to grasp. The whole point is to make them cheaper rides than they are now. These machines are not going to allow UBer to charge cheaper than the rates are now, and if that is true, as i believe it is, what is the point? Replacing 400,000 drivers with Uber owned driverlesscars, means warehouses, technicians, garage mechanics, admin personel, etc., all over the world. I can't see the rate going cheaper than it is now, I see it going higher, much higher.


Initially, using self-driving may be priced cheaper than human-drivers to facilitate acceptance, even though will be more expensive to operate because of larger depreciation costs and other factors. The depreciation/operation costs will rapidly decrease year-after-year as the cost per self-driving car decreases.

These is no certainty that Uber will be the owner/operator of a fleet of self-driving cars. There are several important legal, political and tax reasons for Uber to not become self-driving cars owners/operators. Following their current business model, Uber may decide to lease self-driving cars to 3rd parties, which will operate them in a city.


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