# Uber/ Lyft Destroying the Middle Class Economy



## nl9994 (Oct 24, 2015)

Remember to tell your kids when there was once a middle class, before Uber & Lyft destroyed it.


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## TheyCallMeTrinity (Dec 4, 2015)

So, the Middle Class just started eroding the day ride sharing services came out?

There is a long list of this happening throughout history (google "Technological unemployment") and it almost always benefits society as a whole. For example, the 100:1 ratio of riders:drivers who are now saving money with Uber that can spend that saved money on their families: food, clothes, utilities, health care, etc - which is money that goes back into the economy.


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## nl9994 (Oct 24, 2015)

TheyCallMeTrinity said:


> So, the Middle Class just started eroding the day ride sharing services came out?
> 
> There is a long list of this happening throughout history (google "Technological unemployment") and it almost always benefits society as a whole. For example, the 100:1 ratio of riders:drivers who are now saving money with Uber that can spend that saved money on their families: food, clothes, utilities, health care, etc - which is money that goes back into the economy.


Uber doesn't save anyone money. It's cheaper to own a car than to take an Uber.


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

nl9994 said:


> Uber doesn't save anyone money. It's cheaper to own a car than to take an Uber.


That statement is overly broad. There are many people that can save money buy Ubering and not owning a vehicle. My mother is one and she does.


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## MBENZ_GUY (May 13, 2015)

nl9994 said:


> Remember to tell your kids when there was once a middle class, before Uber & Lyft destroyed it.


1st shot was fired by the beloved President Reagan when he & crew broke the unions in the early 80's. Then pensions were gobbled up by corporations and the 401K emerged. Then downsizing and outsourcing. This was the game plan for the massive shift of wealth we see today. Top 1% controls most of the Nations money.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Let's just cut the b******* uber driver too long I like my job as far as the Customer for the new year I must find Work during the day as I cannot cut it on $10 an hour not counting fuel depreciation I know all the tricks locations sure surge areas etc. Uber and lift kill the transportation business as far as income for Driver it's a great service for Customer my two cents only got five thousand trips this year 11 months show Trinity you could talk about people have an extra money to keep the economy stimulated which is not really reality in this particular case has the Driver can't really even earn the minimum wage I'm not complaining I'm just sharing real information and keeping it real like in France Uber comes to France they try to destroy the taxi service to where the drivers can earn a living Fran bans them in Philadelphia I think it's a great idea we have over and left lyft but I just wish and I'm driving a 2015 car clean New and I could just earn a fair living I don't need a 4.9 price adjustment I just need to have a fair ride if I Drive from South Philly to Valley Forge I get 20 bucks 25 box but then I gotta come back for free this is a voice text grammar is poor happy new year


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

MBENZ_GUY said:


> 1st shot was fired by the beloved President Reagan when he & crew broke the unions in the early 80's. Then pensions were gobbled up by corporations and the 401K emerged. Then downsizing and outsourcing. This was the game plan for the massive shift of wealth we see today. Top 1% controls most of the Nations money.


This. The squeezing of the middle class is tied to the destruction of labor organization. The middle class emerged in the wake of the gilded age with the rise of unions, it withered in the 80s to today with the end of labor power. Look at us. We can't make decent money at uber because we can't organize effectively. If we could, drivers could demand fairer rates and benes.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm a great driver respectful clean shaven eta is great surging or not surging my eta is good my directions are good my knowledge of the area is excellent but let's get real I gotta be a scientist a safe driver worry about a good rating be nice to everybody worried about my car getting damaged worrying about my insurance card company dropping me and then I got to worry about making $9 an hour with a $25,000 car and a lot of work and crazy crazy crazy hours last night I came home at 4 a.m. that's a day New Years Eve 7:30 you can I buy a shirt surge who was given the right away cheap now and what's going to happen is a little bit of extra money later on nothing like people dreamed off Driver and next Wednesday in the rain the premium will be 4.9 in the city should all be Saints today Uber and tomorrow the rip your head off sorry about the grammar it's a voice text it's a simple solution if you want to work your work if you don't you go home in my predicament I got sucked in last year when the going was real good was never great at the peak maybe $20 an hour 25 not counting depreciation expenses now you're looking at a $10 an hour job not counting expense if I had to guess I would say the average Uber Driver net pay in Philadelphia which is a major city who knows where he's going knows where most of the people are coming from I'm going to it's probably about $6 an hour times 70 hours a week is about 400 bucks a week after fuel but the payout of earnings will say 800 -150 fuel at 6:50 minus expenses I'm a great driver respectful clean shaven ETH great surgeon horse not surgeon my e.t.a is a good my directions a good man out of the area is excellent but let's get real I gotta be a scientist a safe driver worry about a good rating be nice to everybody worry about my car getting damage worrying about my insurance card company dropping me and then I got to worry about making $9 an hour with a $25,000 car and a lot of work and crazy crazy crazy hours last night I came home at 4 a.m. today kneaders Eve 7:30 you cannot buy a surge surge Hoovers giving the rise of a cheap now and what's going to happen is a little bit extra money later on nothing like people bring the drivers and next Wednesday in the rain the premium little before. 9 in the city should all be safe today over and and tomorrow the ripped your head off sorry about the grammar its a voice text it's as simple solution if you want to work you work if you don't you go home and my predicament I got sucked in last year when the going was real good was never great at the pic maybe $20 an hour 25 not counting the appreciation expenses now you're looking at a $10 an hour job not counting expense if I had to guess I would say the average over drivers net pay in Philadelphia which is a major City the knows where he's going knows where most of the people coming from and going to is probably about $6 an hour times 70 hours a week is about 4 wanna f*** shortly after fuel but the payout of earnings will say 800 miles on it 50 fuel at 6:50 - expenses - depreciation


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

Bobby747-I generally agree with you but could not read all you wrote. please learn to use punctuation!


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

I had posted this message in Denver's "Forming a Union" thread. Many people were arguing that unions hurt workers more than help them. You guys wrote about Reagan destroying our economy for the middle class and the below graphs prove that.



sicky said:


> Following the great depression, unions were formed that negotiated for the following:
> 1. 8 hr work days (overtime after 8 hrs)
> 2. safety standards that significantly decreased deaths and injuries in coal mines, factories, etc
> 3. child labor laws that eliminated exploitation of children
> ...


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sorry about the grammar its true voice text its from a voice text I have over 5000 trip I give you guys my free advice I'm not going to worry about correcting my grammar I worry about not posting on forums you guys don't need me I don't need you MyInfo is based on facts with Uber and lift I Drive a thousand miles a week maybe I'm not educated enough but I'm too busy driving right now these are the only days you're going to make any money want to stay off the forum because it does me no good I can only help you has new guys you cannot help me what are you going to invite me to do or vice advice you cannot offer really any. Because of my experience I have a lot of experience and real world grammar is not my expertise apologize but I will not share any more tips or tricks to make any money because this board is a negative bored I'd be more worried about reading between the lines that I wrote even though it's sloppy and repetitive and horrible and no periods it's informative happy new year


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

TheyCallMeTrinity said:


> So, the Middle Class just started eroding the day ride sharing services came out?
> 
> There is a long list of this happening throughout history (google "Technological unemployment") and it almost always benefits society as a whole. For example, the 100:1 ratio of riders:drivers who are now saving money with Uber that can spend that saved money on their families: food, clothes, utilities, health care, etc - which is money that goes back into the economy.


LMAO!!


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

One simple sentence ride sharing kills the middle class income you are not middle class no more you're a burger worker with a nice car live it like it learn it it will never get better it will only get worse they can charge $8 minimum and $2 a mile in Philadelphia and not search so much surge and people will pay it but they don't they don't have a tip button should a person's fare is lower today ride more these are the only companies in the world that have a million car fleet and don't known them


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

the poor picks the poor's pocket


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Oh good, I was hoping one of you guys would stand up and fix the economy...when your done you think you could give nuclear proliferation a try. Then... I just gotta get new tire money and everything else will be all taken care of. 

Starting off 2016 with a load off my mind, happy new year


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the opportunity to make great money.


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## GR34 (Dec 13, 2015)

UberMensch2015 said:


> This. The squeezing of the middle class is tied to the destruction of labor organization. The middle class emerged in the wake of the gilded age with the rise of unions, it withered in the 80s to today with the end of labor power. Look at us. We can't make decent money at uber because we can't organize effectively. If we could, drivers could demand fairer rates and benes.


Right on. If we operate as individuals, it's one person negotiating with an entire organization. They have all the power and get to call the shots. That's why corporate average profits over the last few decades have risen over 600%, and wages have barely moved.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the *opportunity* to make great money.


Is that the same as actually making great money?

Let me guess, it's the drivers fault if they don't.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

I gotta be a hundred percent sincere and honest if you call that great money that don't say much about what you've done in your life and what type of money you've earned if you call great money 25000 a year after expenses 70 hours a week I got nothing else to say I don't want to insult you but I think the word great money Andover X uber X do not go hand in hand if you gross $30 an hour you're not making $30 but I'm by the time you pay for wear tear gas Taxes city tax and state taxes everything your pay is low the only good thing that you're your own boss til they deactivate you


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

glados said:


> Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the opportunity to make great money.


glados-You either are an Uber plant/shill or are the dumbest person on the planet!


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

glados said:


> Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the opportunity to make great money.


glados- you are a chump idiot.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

glados said:


> Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the opportunity to make great money.


Which is why you have a driver churn of around six months? Which is why driver profit on uberx is negative? You keep using the word earnings and not profit and you do it on purpose because you're being purposely deceptive. That's why you've lost all credibility, Travis. I've asked you many times to use profit as a definition of driver success and you keep using earnings instead. Until you define driver success as the excess cash flow retained after expenses and depreciation you will not be listened to by anyone. You are perpetuating a fraud.

On a personal note to whomever is posting at uber under glados, I sincerely wonder what moral code allows you to be so willfully deceptive. Would your parents be proud of you lying and misleading as a living? Honest question, is your paycheck worth the cost to your soul?


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here 



UberMensch2015 said:


> Which is why you have a driver churn of around six months?


Driver-partner churn is an eventuality of the ridesharing industry and reflects the flexibility and no-commitment of driving on Uber. Uber has a market-leading retention rate and many driver-partners love the benefits, flexibility, and earnings of Uber.



UberMensch2015 said:


> Which is why driver profit on uberx is negative?


Uber is indeed profitable. Uber is choosing to invest in itself and is bringing transportation as reliable as tap water into more cities. There are up-front costs involved with expansion, but Uber's core business model is profitable.



UberMensch2015 said:


> You are perpetuating a fraud.


I'm sorry that you feel that way, but there is no nefarious intent with using 'Earnings' instead of 'Profit', as earnings is an 'universal' amount whereas profit depends on an individual vehicle's mileage and depreciation, and even a driver-partner's tax bracket.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

glados said:


> Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here
> 
> Driver-partner churn is an eventuality of the ridesharing industry and reflects the flexibility and no-commitment of driving on Uber. Uber has a market-leading retention rate and many driver-partners love the benefits, flexibility, and earnings of Uber.
> 
> ...


1. I didn't mean uberx profitability, I meant the profitability for the driver. Your immediate assumption that I meant your employers profitability shows your bias. We have shown you multiple times that uberx is not a profitable venture the driver at less than a dollar per mile and you have shown nothing to refute that.

2. That's a non answer on profit. You won't use profit because uber is not profitable for the driver in any way shape or form if they have to driver uberx. The math is simply impossible in most cities with the low rates. That's why your churn is so high, the churn time is roughly equal to the length of time it takes them driver to figure out they are losing money.

3. No "job" that has a churn the rate you churn your employees (the driver) is sustainable. Show me one that is.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

UberMensch2015 said:


> Which is why you have a driver churn of around six months? Which is why driver profit on uberx is negative? You keep using the word earnings and not profit and you do it on purpose because you're being purposely deceptive. That's why you've lost all credibility, Travis. I've asked you many times to use profit as a definition of driver success and you keep using earnings instead. Until you define driver success as the excess cash flow retained after expenses and depreciation you will not be listened to by anyone. You are perpetuating a fraud.
> 
> On a personal note to whomever is posting at uber under glados, I sincerely wonder what moral code allows you to be so willfully deceptive. Would your parents be proud of you lying and misleading as a living? Honest question, is your paycheck worth the cost to your soul?


Bingo.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

glados said:


> Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here
> 
> Driver-partner churn is an eventuality of the ridesharing industry and reflects the flexibility and no-commitment of driving on Uber. Uber has a market-leading retention rate and many driver-partners love the benefits, flexibility, and earnings of Uber.
> 
> ...


ROFL. What are they 'investing' in? They have no real expenses aside from shelling out bribes to keep new suckers flooding in for progressively lower pay. From what I read on here, they play games with those guarantees, and sometimes don't even pay out. Uber is only 'profitable' for the executives who are sucking money out of it.

You really slipped with the bs explnation of driver churn. While some churn is due to part timers, to omit the obviously huge segment of drivers who quit because they got their per mile rate slashed and watched Uber raise their cut is proof you are a mere troll.


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## atluber1 (Dec 11, 2014)

glados said:


> Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here


All of your posts reek of being an uber shill. Who else would defend them *every single time*. At least mix it up a little bit so it wont be so obvious.


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## afrojoe824 (Oct 21, 2015)

bobby747 said:


> Sorry about the grammar its true voice text its from a voice text I have over 5000 trip I give you guys my free advice I'm not going to worry about correcting my grammar I worry about not posting on forums you guys don't need me I don't need you MyInfo is based on facts with Uber and lift I Drive a thousand miles a week maybe I'm not educated enough but I'm too busy driving right now these are the only days you're going to make any money want to stay off the forum because it does me no good I can only help you has new guys you cannot help me what are you going to invite me to do or vice advice you cannot offer really any. Because of my experience I have a lot of experience and real world grammar is not my expertise apologize but I will not share any more tips or tricks to make any money because this board is a negative bored I'd be more worried about reading between the lines that I wrote even though it's sloppy and repetitive and horrible and no periods it's informative happy new year


. ,; ? !


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

bobby747 said:


> I gotta be a hundred percent sincere and honest if you call that great money that don't say much about what you've done in your life and what type of money you've earned if you call great money 25000 a year after expenses 70 hours a week I got nothing else to say I don't want to insult you but I think the word great money Andover X uber X do not go hand in hand if you gross $30 an hour you're not making $30 but I'm by the time you pay for wear tear gas Taxes city tax and state taxes everything your pay is low the only good thing that you're your own boss til they deactivate you


Holy crap dude, use a period and a paragraph here and there.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

glados said:


> Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here


You don't represent Uber, but you happen to write in a similar fashion to the PR exec that wrote the Uber handbook which is copy/pasted in response to all driver questions?



glados said:


> Driver-partner churn is an eventuality of the ridesharing industry and reflects the flexibility and no-commitment of driving on Uber. Uber has a market-leading retention rate and many driver-partners love the benefits, flexibility, and earnings of Uber.


Since Uber won't release data describing their "driver-partner" retention rate, you would have to work for Uber to know this information. What benefits are you speaking of? We have no healthcare, sick pay or vacation time. earnings? less than minimum wage after our expenses is not something we "love".



glados said:


> Uber is indeed profitable. Uber is choosing to invest in itself and is bringing transportation as reliable as tap water into more cities. There are up-front costs involved with expansion, but Uber's core business model is profitable.


Uber is profitable just like Walmart is profitable. Lowering the standard of living in an entire industry by paying starvation wages can indeed be profitable. great job Uber!



glados said:


> I'm sorry that you feel that way, but there is no nefarious intent with using 'Earnings' instead of 'Profit', as earnings is an 'universal' amount whereas profit depends on an individual vehicle's mileage and depreciation, and even a driver-partner's tax bracket.


Nevermind "earnings" vs "profit". You advertise gross fares. these fares are before Uber's massive cut and our expenses. We are lucky to see 1/3 of what our earnings are. Combine this with the fact that your "earnings" advertising is highly inflated in the first place.

Did you Uber thieves happen to notice that the lawsuits didn't pop up until you lowered driving rates to starvation levels? Did you happen to notice that the quality of drivers has greatly decreased since then as well? Most of my passengers thank me for being able to speak english and hold a conversation with them. They also like that I have several playlists for all types of moods. I will only be doing this until I find new employment, which won't be long.

Glados, go F**K yourself!


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

bobby747 said:


> Let's just cut the b******* uber driver too long I like my job as far as the Customer for the new year I must find Work during the day as I cannot cut it on $10 an hour not counting fuel depreciation I know all the tricks locations sure surge areas etc. Uber and lift kill the transportation business as far as income for Driver it's a great service for Customer my two cents only got five thousand trips this year 11 months show Trinity you could talk about people have an extra money to keep the economy stimulated which is not really reality in this particular case has the Driver can't really even earn the minimum wage I'm not complaining I'm just sharing real information and keeping it real like in France Uber comes to France they try to destroy the taxi service to where the drivers can earn a living Fran bans them in Philadelphia I think it's a great idea we have over and left lyft but I just wish and I'm driving a 2015 car clean New and I could just earn a fair living I don't need a 4.9 price adjustment I just need to have a fair ride if I Drive from South Philly to Valley Forge I get 20 bucks 25 box but then I gotta come back for free this is a voice text grammar is poor happy new year


Can you share some of the tricks in a seperate thread? Sincere request.


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## Sean76 (Dec 20, 2015)

I have to agree. Uber has probably the highest turnover rate in the history of the U.S. 
Most of the people that use UberX are low class losers


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## Uber-ray (Dec 28, 2015)

A likely scenario?

Once the states have mandatory and verified commercial vehicle insurance enforcement on all Uber drivers, the Company will have to boost rates and payouts way up to balance out the added expense, thus making it less attractive to riders. The brewing class lawsuits regarding minimum wages and benefits will further dig into the Company's bottom line. Then the cab companies will unite and steal or mimic the Uber technology while retaining what has worked for them for the last 50 years, to drive the final nail into the Uber coffin.


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

glados said:


> Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here
> 
> Driver-partner churn is an eventuality of the ridesharing industry and reflects the flexibility and no-commitment of driving on Uber. Uber has a market-leading retention rate and many driver-partners love the benefits, flexibility, and earnings of Uber.
> 
> ...


What a chump and Uber shill glados is. He is a liar and do not believe a word he writes. He is paid PR for Uber trying to fool the less intelligent drivers.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

bobby747 said:


> Let's just cut the b******* uber driver too long I like my job as far as the Customer for the new year I must find Work during the day as I cannot cut it on $10 an hour not counting fuel depreciation I know all the tricks locations sure surge areas etc. Uber and lift kill the transportation business as far as income for Driver it's a great service for Customer my two cents only got five thousand trips this year 11 months show Trinity you could talk about people have an extra money to keep the economy stimulated which is not really reality in this particular case has the Driver can't really even earn the minimum wage I'm not complaining I'm just sharing real information and keeping it real like in France Uber comes to France they try to destroy the taxi service to where the drivers can earn a living Fran bans them in Philadelphia I think it's a great idea we have over and left lyft but I just wish and I'm driving a 2015 car clean New and I could just earn a fair living I don't need a 4.9 price adjustment I just need to have a fair ride if I Drive from South Philly to Valley Forge I get 20 bucks 25 box but then I gotta come back for free this is a voice text grammar is poor happy new year


I have 2 words for you: punctu ation!


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

sicky said:


> Bobby747-I generally agree with you but could not read all you wrote. please learn to use punctuation!


I love this speech recognition.

You can say

New paragragh, and make a paragraph.

You can say

Period. Comma, colon,question mark, to get punctuation.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

sicky:

81% of US driver partners are satisfied with Uber overall, according to a survey conducted last month. Driver satisfaction is higher compared to one year ago.

Uber is working great for more than 400,000 active driver-partners in the US, and when you have a pool that big you're bound to have some complaints.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

glados said:


> 81% of US driver partners are satisfied with Uber overall, according to a survey conducted last month. Driver satisfaction is higher compared to one year ago.


Here's an honest fact. Over 70% of Uber drivers quit in less than six months. Satisfied drivers don't quit in such huge numbers.


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

1. The middle class is doing it to himself.

2. No one is going down wasn't going down anyways.

But believe it or not I agree the cost of uber services as cheap as you want to say they are is an expense many cannot afford

As for people being idiots chumps shills, plants, well, I kind of agree but it's not something I'd say to your face.

I mean really a plant. I feel the company placed in here just to say positive things about uber.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the opportunity to make great money.


Uber lures people in with the promise of life changing money. The drivers sign up, realize that Uber lied to them and soon quit.

Uber comes into markets with a fair rates and attracts drivers. Within a few months they drop the rates and screw over the drivers. They lie to the drivers claiming that the low rates will attract more customers. Translation: Drivers will need to work more and put twice as many miles on their car to make the same amount.

Drivers soon figure out that they have been a victim of bait and switch and quit. Drivers then come to this forum to warn others about how Uber is a lying horrible company.

Uber answers by placing Uber employees on the forum to continue spreading their lies.....Go away Glados. Everyone here knows the truth.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Here's an honest fact. Over 70% of Uber drivers quit in less than six months. Satisfied drivers don't quit in such huge numbers.


Uber's sign up process is super simple and streamlined. Lots of people sign up for the Uber platform just to have a feel for how it works, without any strong intention of driving for Uber in the first place. This impacts the churn rate.

Driving with Uber is popular with parents, students, and other demographics where their availability can substantially vary. Combined with the flexibility and lack of commitment with Uber, ridesharing is an industry of its own and its churn rate cannot be directly compared with other, more traditional and less flexible industries. When you compare Uber with the rest of the industry, you'll find that Uber leads in driver retention and the number of satisfied driver-partners.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Uber lures people in with the promise of life changing money.


400,000 driver-partners are actively driving with Uber in the US, and many are finding it a great opportunity to make extra cash as a side gig or as a full-time job. Meet them at http://love.uber.com

Since its inception, Uber has developed many new features like uberPOOL, driver destinations, improved surge models, and stacked trips which allow driver-partners to earn even more and minimize their downtime. Uber has adjusted the pricing in many cities to increase rider demand, which results in more rides, less downtime, and more earnings per hour for driver-partners.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

glados said:


> Driving with Uber is popular with parents, students, and other demographics


Driving for Uber is popular with junkies, thieves, perverts and other losers that can't find work anywhere else in society.
Uber used to have decent drivers who were respected and took pride in their work. These drivers hardly ever drive anymore. Most have quit.

Uber has become the place where the miscreants of society go and use their cars as ATM machines.

If Uber even cared about attracting decent drivers, they would pay drivers a fair rate and use the rating system to weed out the losers. Instead Uber has drivers who are thieves, junkies and perverts.

Here's an article about two Uber drivers robbing passengers in Atlanta: http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...wo-uber-drivers-allegedly-rob-passengers.html


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

glados said:


> Since its inception, Uber has developed many new features like uberPOOL, driver destinations, improved surge models, and stacked trips which allow driver-partners to earn even more and minimize their downtime. Uber has adjusted the pricing in many cities to increase rider demand, which results in more rides, less downtime, and more earnings per hour for driver-partners.


Real drivers who have had to endure these horrible Uber practices realize that they make far less money everytime Uber comes up with new ways to exploit their drivers. Uber-pool is nothing more than turning your car into a bus while the driver makes less money. Rate cuts equals less money for the drivers.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Real drivers who have had to endure these horrible Uber practices realize that they make far less money everytime Uber comes up with new ways to exploit their drivers. Uber-pool is nothing more than turning your car into a bus while the driver makes less money. Rate cuts equals less momney for the drivers.


Rate adjustments increase rider demand, increasing the number of trips per hour, and increases hourly earnings.

Uber's rate adjustments are backed with data. Have a look for yourself:


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Uber loves to send out make believe graphs and pie charts to try to convince stupid drivers that the rate cuts mean more money. Anyone with experience knows that rate cuts screw over the drivers. Anyone can create a chart that lies. This forum is full of real drivers that have experienced the truth. This forum has a couple Uber employees that like to keep spreading lies. The above chart is a blatant lie that any experienced driver has had to learn the hard way.

If you need more proof that Glados is a Uber employee, consider how quickly he was able to access this latest Uber propaganda and post it here. Real drivers don't have such resources at their fingertips. If you want to spread lies on this forum.... buy an advertisement.


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## JJ/Uber/Miami (Jun 24, 2015)

bobby747 said:


> Let's just cut the b******* uber driver too long I like my job as far as the Customer for the new year I must find Work during the day as I cannot cut it on $10 an hour not counting fuel depreciation I know all the tricks locations sure surge areas etc. Uber and lift kill the transportation business as far as income for Driver it's a great service for Customer my two cents only got five thousand trips this year 11 months show Trinity you could talk about people have an extra money to keep the economy stimulated which is not really reality in this particular case has the Driver can't really even earn the minimum wage I'm not complaining I'm just sharing real information and keeping it real like in France Uber comes to France they try to destroy the taxi service to where the drivers can earn a living Fran bans them in Philadelphia I think it's a great idea we have over and left lyft but I just wish and I'm driving a 2015 car clean New and I could just earn a fair living I don't need a 4.9 price adjustment I just need to have a fair ride if I Drive from South Philly to Valley Forge I get 20 bucks 25 box but then I gotta come back for free this is a voice text grammar is poor happy new year


Sweetheart, no matter what your language of origin, commas and periods exist for a reason. They are your friends when trying to convey to readers the point of your thoughts. USE THEM !!


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Uber loves to send out make believe graphs and pie charts to try to convince stupid drivers that the rate cuts mean more money. Anyone with experience knows that rate cuts screw over the drivers. Anyone can create a chart that lies. This forum is full of real drivers that have experienced the truth. This forum has a couple Uber employees that like to keep spreading lies. The above chart is a blatant lie that any experienced driver has had to learn the hard way.
> 
> If you need more proof that Glados is a Uber employee, consider how quickly he was able to access this latest Uber propaganda and post it here. Real drivers don't have such resources at their fingertips. If you want to spread lies on this forum.... buy an advertisement.


glados is an Uber employee and a liar. Uber may be the most unethical, deceitful company in America. Uber only screws its drivers and drivers have to educate riders about Uber, low rates and tipping. etc. and not do many jobs jobs that are no profitable (maybe 90% in my area)


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

glados said:


> 400,000 driver-partners are actively driving with Uber in the US, and many are finding it a great opportunity to make extra cash as a side gig or as a full-time job. Meet them at http://love.uber.com
> 
> Since its inception, Uber has developed many new features like uberPOOL, driver destinations, improved surge models, and stacked trips which allow driver-partners to earn even more and minimize their downtime. Uber has adjusted the pricing in many cities to increase rider demand, which results in more rides, less downtime, and more earnings per hour for driver-partners.


Uber sucks ok!!!!! If anybody loves driving for Uber, he or she is totally stupid. It takes 12 hrs just to break a $100. Please!!!!!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber has been giving more than one million active driver partners the opportunity to make *great money*.


Would you care to define *"Great Money"?*


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Would you care to define *"Great Money"?*


Why bother? Don't waste our time with lying graphs and pie charts. If Uber wants to spread lies on this forum, they should by an ad.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber has a market-leading retention rate


Really?

*Uber Finally Admits The Obvious | Uber Has A Driver Retention Problem*


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

Hi Glados,

Have you ever heard the saying "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time"? Try as you will, but your employer, Uber, is not going convince experienced drivers or educated people that Uber is profitable and/or a middle class occupation. Thank you for ceasing your denial that you work for Uber. By the way, only an Uber employee would call drivers "driver-partners", because we are in no way a partner. That name is just another misleading representation Uber uses to make it sound like we are treated like independent contractors.

Your statistics are a joke. I will now debunk all your statements. I am an experienced scientist with a Masters degree and in between jobs due to the crash of oil prices. I am quite knowledgeable of the fact that you can make statistics say anything you want.



glados said:


> sicky:
> 
> 81% of US driver partners are satisfied with Uber overall, according to a survey conducted last month. Driver satisfaction is higher compared to one year ago.
> 
> Uber is working great for more than 400,000 active driver-partners in the US, and when you have a pool that big you're bound to have some complaints.


For this survey, Uber cherry-picked 833 drivers out of their 400,000 US drivers. This is a sample size of 0.002%, which is not scientifically valid. I believe it would be safe to assume that these 833 drivers were not chosen at random, and the drivers chosen had no prior complaints and had the highest earnings in their regions. It would also be safe to assume that the survey questions were intentionally misleading in a similar fashion to all of your public relations and advertisements aimed at employing more drivers.



glados said:


> Uber's sign up process is super simple and streamlined. Lots of people sign up for the Uber platform just to have a feel for how it works, without any strong intention of driving for Uber in the first place. This impacts the churn rate.
> 
> Driving with Uber is popular with parents, students, and other demographics where their availability can substantially vary. Combined with the flexibility and lack of commitment with Uber, ridesharing is an industry of its own and its churn rate cannot be directly compared with other, more traditional and less flexible industries. When you compare Uber with the rest of the industry, you'll find that Uber leads in driver retention and the number of satisfied driver-partners.


This statement has some truth to it. Many people will sign up for Uber to see if it works for them and some will inevitably quit when they realize a factor that is out of Uber's control (such as they don't like driving). However, the more common scenario is that drivers quit when they realize they are earning under minimum wage after they take their expenses into account.

Uber spends a lot to advertise their lease programs because drivers can't just quit after they sign up. Uber is essentially creating indentured servants because drivers are forced to drive to keep paying their lease. Their lease payment is taken from their driving account each week and if they stop driving they are required to pay off the lease. This type of practice was employed by the wealthy to finance people's voyages to settle America and was outlawed hundreds of years ago due to its predatory nature.

The taxi industry had a much higher retention rate than Uber, until Uber undercut their prices and forced taxi drivers to work for under minimum wage. The only full time drivers uber retains are those that have driven for a living all their life or those that are tricked into an Uber lease program. Other drivers will lower their hours to the bare minimum so that they aren't deactivated and can drive the holidays (the few profitable days).



glados said:


> 400,000 driver-partners are actively driving with Uber in the US, and many are finding it a great opportunity to make extra cash as a side gig or as a full-time job. Meet them at http://love.uber.com
> 
> Since its inception, Uber has developed many new features like uberPOOL, driver destinations, improved surge models, and stacked trips which allow driver-partners to earn even more and minimize their downtime. Uber has adjusted the pricing in many cities to increase rider demand, which results in more rides, less downtime, and more earnings per hour for driver-partners.


More "earnings per hour" is intentionally misleading, but I'm sure you know this glados. We are driving many more miles to to capture the same earnings as before, which means our expenses are much higher. This leads to lower net earnings. In addition, Uber keeps taking more fees and a higher percentage, which also leads to lower net earnings. When you use the word "earnings", you really mean gross fares. After my expenses, I don't even see 1/3 of my gross fares.



glados said:


> Rate adjustments increase rider demand, increasing the number of trips per hour, and increases hourly earnings.
> 
> Uber's rate adjustments are backed with data. Have a look for yourself:


This graph proves my prior point. Drivers now put 45% more miles on their cars for 12% higher fares/hour. Drivers therefore make less money than before, since it costs 57.5 cents per mile on average to operate a vehicle. Add to this the increase in Uber's commission, and drivers are netting significantly less than one year ago.

I would love to see what percentage of total drivers you chose to create these graphs. Would also love to see the methodology you used to cherry pick these drivers statistics.

Glados-the company you work for is morally reprehensible by successfully making billions of dollars through lowering wages in an entire industry. Uber is another company that is eliminating middle class occupations and replacing them with low wage work. Uber's employees require other occupations or taxpayer handouts to survive. Minimum wage and employment laws are skewed towards the employer, and Uber won't even abide by them. Uber is the quintessence of evil.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> Just want to clarify, I do not represent Uber here


Okay.
But you certainly work hard to sell Uber SunSHIT (Sunlight + BullS**T) on the Forum.


glados said:


> 81% of US driver partners are satisfied with Uber overall, according to a *survey conducted last month.* Driver satisfaction is higher compared to one year ago.


Let's have a look at this latest Uber Survey:

The Survey makes *NO Mention of Drivers' Earnings*. Why is that?
At least the 2014 Survey (released Jan 22nd 2015), included Driver Earnings from Oct 2014 (prior to the massive Jan 9th 2015 Rate Cuts).
*(Edited) Uber Study: UberX Drivers Grossed $16.50/Hr (B4 Expenses) During Oct. In 20 Biggest Markets*
These Surveys were conducted by Joel Benenson's Benenson Strategic Group. Joel Benenson was the Pollster for Obama Presidential Campaigns' run by David Plouffe (Uber Board Member, Strategic Advisor to TravisK, and past Uber VP).
Uber wouldn't release the Survey Questionnaire from these two surveys.
Alan Krueger (past Member of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers) never followed up on his promise to release a Study of Driver Earnings that reflected Drivers' Operational Expenses.
Survey participants were preselected and given financial incentives to participate.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> 400,000 driver-partners are actively driving with Uber in the US


But *Why do the 400,000+ Inactive Uber Drivers choose NOT to give even 4 rides in a month?*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> 81% of US driver partners are satisfied with Uber overall,


Our own Ongoing Forum Poll says Drivers think "Uber Sucks"!
*Ongoing Poll | How Would YOU Rate Uber?*
Compared to Lyft:
*Ongoing Poll | How Would You Rate Lyft*


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

sicky said:


> Hi Glados,
> 
> Have you ever heard the saying "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time"? Try as you will, but your employer, Uber, is not going convince experienced drivers or educated people that Uber is profitable and/or a middle class occupation. Thank you for ceasing your denial that you work for Uber. By the way, only an Uber employee would call drivers "driver-partners", because we are in no way a partner. That name is just another misleading representation Uber uses to make it sound like we are treated like independent contractors.
> 
> ...


A really funny thing is that they cut rates in these markets with the promise that it will attract more customers and provide more work, while at the same time continuing to add thousands of new drivers.

Takes about three seconds to see how f**ed up that is.


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

sicky said:


> Hi Glados,
> 
> Have you ever heard the saying "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time"? Try as you will, but your employer, Uber, is not going convince experienced drivers or educated people that Uber is profitable and/or a middle class occupation. Thank you for ceasing your denial that you work for Uber. By the way, only an Uber employee would call drivers "driver-partners", because we are in no way a partner. That name is just another misleading representation Uber uses to make it sound like we are treated like independent contractors.
> 
> ...


GO HEAD SICKY, YOU TOLD THIS UBER FOOL!!!!! Take a stats class idiot.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Hi sicky,
It is true that there is increased vehicle operating costs from having more trips per hour. However, many Uber drivers partners have depreciation and maintenance far less than 0.57 per mile.

Pando Media, an independent investigative media outlet has calculated and found that rate cuts do still increase driver-partner earnings. See the attached chart:


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Furthermore, a sample size of 833 out of 400,000 is statistically valid to a margin of error of 3.39%.

There is no "cherry picking" or manipulation of data. Simply put, the vast majority of driver-partner are satisfied with Uber and there is a vocal minority that tends to congregate onto online communities and groups.


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

Glados, most people who use Uber are only going 1 or 2 miles. This stuff you posted is based on the average rider going 5 miles.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

glados said:


> Hi sicky,
> It is true that there is increased vehicle operating costs from having more trips per hour. However, many Uber drivers partners have depreciation and maintenance far less than 0.57 per mile.
> 
> Pando Media, an independent investigative media outlet has calculated and found that rate cuts do still increase driver-partner earnings. See the attached chart:
> ...


The chart you posted shows that operating a vehicle does not cost far less than $0.57 per mile. see calculations below.

I hope you didn't pay too much money for this study, since it looks highly suspect for the following reasons:

1) Why do the operating costs per mile decrease so much between 2013 and 2014?
2013 operating cost per mile: $3.75/(1.35 trips x 5 miles) =56.0 cents per mile
2014 operating cost per mile: $4.46/(1.94 trips x 5 miles) =46.0 cents per mile

Gas prices went down a bit at the end of 2014, but this does not account for 10 cents per mile (this would be $2 per gallon deduction for a car getting 20 mpg or $4 per gallon deduction for a car getting 40 mpg)

2) This chart assumes that we have no dead miles. Typically, over 50% of our miles are driving to a more populated area, driving to a customer or driving back from a customer. This would mean you could more than double our operating expense.

3) We have more operating costs than are being shown. We are supposed to have commercial or rideshare insurance, but cannot afford it at current rates. I had to pay for a DOT physical and a vehicle inspection to drive for Uber. We need to constantly clean the interior and exterior of our vehicles. I bought a dash cam and mace for safety precautions. All of these things not only cost money, but take time, thereby lowering our earnings per hour.

Current rates are much lower than this. A 5 mile fare in in chicago that takes 10 minutes would currently give an uber driver ($1.70 + $0.90 x 5 + $0.20 x 10 - $1.20 SRF - $0.50 city surcharge) x 0.8 = $5.20. This is if uber is taking a 20% cut in chicago. $5.20 x 1.94 rides per hr = $10.09. If you deduct the deflated $4.46 operating costs which don't include dead miles, a chicago driver is currently making $5.63 per hour. If you assume 50% dead miles, a chicago driver is now making $1.17 per hour.

Please use current rates and post your own calculations in this forum. I would love to see them.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

glados said:


> Hi sicky,
> It is true that there is increased vehicle operating costs from having more trips per hour. However, many Uber drivers partners have depreciation and maintenance far less than 0.57 per mile.
> 
> Pando Media, an independent investigative media outlet has calculated and found that rate cuts do still increase driver-partner earnings. See the attached chart:
> ...


Nobody cares what an independant company hired by Uber says.

Here's a fact. Not one experienced driver has ever had an increase in revenue after an Uber rate cut. This forum, however, has thousands of drivers who have testified on this forum stating they now make far less money than before. I suppose you want us to believe that you are the only one telling the truth and the thousands of real drivers posting here are liars.


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

glados


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## Cashcow-hah! (Oct 10, 2015)

There are more riders now NOT because of the low fares, but due to increased awareness by the general public of ride share services. The rates were plenty low enough prior to the rate cuts!


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## Avi-ator (Sep 18, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Our own Ongoing Forum Poll says Drivers think "Uber Sucks"!
> *Ongoing Poll | How Would YOU Rate Uber?*
> Compared to Lyft:
> *Ongoing Poll | How Would You Rate Lyft*


It's easy skew polls or surveys to generate results in their favor so no surprise if they did. Makes me curious about the current video survey of drivers in circulation; are they surveying all or a select few..anyone/everyone here got it? Wouldn't surprise me if uber is collecting favorable video bites for some new kind of promotional material.


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

glados said:


> Hi sicky,
> It is true that there is increased vehicle operating costs from having more trips per hour. However, many Uber drivers partners have depreciation and maintenance far less than 0.57 per mile.
> 
> Pando Media, an independent investigative media outlet has calculated and found that rate cuts do still increase driver-partner earnings. See the attached chart:
> ...


Most deceptive crapola from Uber shill/employee glados. No, we Uber drivers do NOT want to work 50% more (with more ware on our vehicles) to make 10% more, much less the reality that most of us are making much less and our service has gone down due to resentment of Uber and the cheap ass passengers who take advantage of us thanks to Uber.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

mark edwards said:


> Most deceptive crapola from Uber shill/employee glados. No, we Uber drivers do NOT want to work 50% more (with more ware on our vehicles) to make 10% more, much less the reality that most of us are making much less and our service has gone down due to resentment of Uber and the cheap ass passengers who take advantage of us thanks to Uber.


This is why Uber makes no sense to me. They spend tens of millions of dollars per year on advertising about how much money their drivers make and how happy they are. Then they spend millions on bullsh*tters like david ploufe and his croneys. If they spent that much money on actually keeping drivers happy, they wouldn't have the problems with lawsuits, negative journalism and word of mouth that they have now.

Whenever a pax asks me how I like working for Uber or what I think of them, I tell them the truth. I tell them about the pay, uber's indentured servant lease program, their mistreatment of drivers in various ways (ratings, lost property, uber support, etc.) Middle class and poorer passengers are horrified by Uber's actions and many say they will start taking lyft. rich people give me a dirty look like I should be grateful for Uber. Since rich people NEVER tip me anyway, I couldn't give a flying f*ck. It seems that the poorer somebody is, the higher chance I have to get a tip.

Word of mouth is the best publicity a company can have. Hopefully the pax I educate tell many of their friends about Uber.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

glados said:


> Hi sicky,
> It is true that there is increased vehicle operating costs from having more trips per hour. However, many Uber drivers partners have depreciation and maintenance far less than 0.57 per mile.
> 
> Pando Media, an independent investigative media outlet has calculated and found that rate cuts do still increase driver-partner earnings. See the attached chart:
> ...


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

elelegido said:


>


glados is, of course, an Uber employee and shill and not honest, much like Uber. Uber will spend money to deceive us and try and trick us, etc. and their basic idea that it costs less than 57 cents a mile to operate a vehicle, is not only a lie but they, much like Walmart, etc., want us to run down our vehicles (in essence get paid out of our vehicle equity), get food stamps, and pay no taxes (with 57 cent tax deduction we are essentially making poverty wages, and ergo essentially screw the Feds. Uber wants us and US gov. to subsidize them. Why can't Uber ditch that sick Any Rand "greed is good" philosophy of that punk Travis Kalanick (did you see what an idiot and fool he looked like on Cobert?) and be a decent company that would have good, loyal drivers. I have already turned down 2 short jobs this morning telling them I can not do the job for the $3.20 Uber rate and to try and get another Uber (a chump) or get a taxi.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mark edwards said:


> glados is, of course, an Uber employee


Nah; Glados is most likely a basement dweller. He seems to enjoy just popping in now and again to try to stir things up. Some of his posts are quite imaginative, but other than being a bit of light hearted entertainment there's not a lot to them.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

driverco said:


> Certain areas downtown where parking is expensive, those that work from home and rarely venture out, campus or places where groups can split a fare cheaper than a bus.... unfortunately Uber is cheaper than ownership unfortunately drivers also lose $ on this very type of rider if they don't tip $5 & that's the truth


$3.00 an hour public parking new Orleans.
A garage can cost $25.00 a day or more.
Locals find Uber cheaper than parking.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

Hi Glados,

I would still love to see your math refuting what I wrote below. There are even newer rates for you to use! I don't know the current # of trips Uber says we average per hour, so that's one spot where I can be corrected.



sicky said:


> The chart you posted shows that operating a vehicle does not cost far less than $0.57 per mile. see calculations below.
> 
> I hope you didn't pay too much money for this study, since it looks highly suspect for the following reasons:
> 
> ...


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

Uber simply jumped on the bandwagon of slashing wages across an entire industry. They are just a fraction of the problem. Unfortunately, not enough people see the direction our country is going with regards to wealth inequality. The majority of politicians will not do anything to solve this issue, since their campaigns are financed by those who don't want it solved. Like most issues, Americans won't step up until they are under significant hardship, and at that point they may not have the time and energy to do much about it. "Voting" for change is like praying for change.


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