# How can Uber force us to accept the job without knowing what the job is?



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


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## brendon292 (Aug 2, 2016)

It's not as if most drivers don't know the system is bullsh*t. The issue is that many of the people who drive for Uber are economically vulnerable. For example, many Uber drivers are new immigrants who lack language and job skills which are relevant or marketable. Other drivers _are_ employed outside of Uber, but the extra income they earn driving is still very important to them.


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## Paxhole_supreme (May 4, 2017)

brendon292 said:


> It's not as if most drivers don't know the system is bullsh*t. The issue is that many of the people that drive for Uber are economically vulnerable. For example, many Uber drivers are new immigrants who lack language and job skills relevant which marketable. Other drivers _are_ employed outside of Uber, but the income they earn driving is still very important to them.


Thank god I found a good job! Can't wait for Uber to fail!


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

brendon292 said:


> many of the people who drive for Uber are economically vulnerable


This & it's getting worse.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

brendon292 said:


> It's not as if most drivers don't know the system is bullsh*t. The issue is that many of the people who drive for Uber are economically vulnerable. For example, many Uber drivers are new immigrants who lack language and job skills which are relevant or marketable. Other drivers _are_ employed outside of Uber, but the extra income they earn driving is still very important to them.


This is the scam Uber is playing, calling us contractors when we're obviously not. If you're a painting contractor, do you accept a job without knowing what it is or how much it pays? Of course not. But this is exactly what Uber is doing to us. Like telling the painting contractor you have a job for him but he has to accept it before he knows what it is. Paint the whole house for 50 bucks and you the contractor have to supply the paint. You'd tell them to go pound sand, the paint alone costs more than 50 bucks. Then the painting contractor is told he already accepted the job and if he cancels he'll never work in this town again.

How is this any different than what Uber is doing to us by forcing us to accept the job sight unseen and then threatening to fire us if we cancel? You're right, Uber gets away with it only because many drivers are in difficult financial straits and Uber takes advantage of it. Problem for Uber is they'll eventually lose a class action lawsuit and be forced show us the destination before we accept the job or not fire us for cancellations.


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## Moondirty (Jul 6, 2017)

I'm hoping to be dropped for a high cancellation rate so that I can sue the crap out of them. It's just a matter of time..


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

I've done many jobs in my life. This being just one. If this goes away for whatever reason, I'll go do something else again. There are viable alternatives, even for "immigrants", etc. What I won't do is be cajoled into paying for the privilege of driving someone hours away in dead-locked traffic simply because they didn't "want to take the.......ewwwww......train" because the return trip produces a non-deductible negative total effect on my income for said day...... These trips come at least once a day. I took all of them at first. A week later I sat back and did the math. Sure, $60. for what SHOULD be a two hour round-trip plus $20. toll reimbursement SOUNDS great. Until you recognize it's NEVER going to BE a 2 hour round-trip and that your return trip is basically going to cost you that $60. and then some. That, and I have personal obligations that preclude my spending an entire work shift on one single fare producing said negative income......
* and now for some little @[email protected] with zero economic sense to chime in and claim "blah blah blah cost of doing business, etc, etc ad nauseum".......
No, it's not. not when it'd take up each and every single day


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## NCHeel (Jan 5, 2017)

You do know the job, it is to drive. What if you were a contract painter and you got hired to do a job. You show up and the paint supplied by the general contractor is blue. Oh no, I don't do blue paint. You agreed to a base pay plus mileage and time with a minimum payout. That is what you agreed to. Now you complain because you can't pick and choose the higher paying jobs. GC needs you to paint all his houses not just the million dollar homes.


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## Yozee (Jun 7, 2017)

Moondirty said:


> I'm hoping to be dropped for a high cancellation rate so that I can sue the crap out of them. It's just a matter of time..


How would you sue them for cancellations? You agreed to take the call, then you cancelled it...

You can sue for acceptance but cancellations is kinda your "fault".

That's why uber & lyft can not deactivate you for low acceptance, hence the weeklygram of soft threats about not accepting trips...

On the bright side, I am waiting for their autonomous cars to be on the road = Revenge of the ants...


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


Why even complain? Just quit driving and find another job. If that is not possible, then be thankful for UBER.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

NCHeel said:


> You do know the job, it is to drive. What if you were a contract painter and you got hired to do a job. You show up and the paint supplied by the general contractor is blue. Oh no, I don't do blue paint. You agreed to a base pay plus mileage and time with a minimum payout. That is what you agreed to. Now you complain because you can't pick and choose the higher paying jobs. GC needs you to paint all his houses not just the million dollar homes.


That's the problem, Uber wants it both ways. We're contractors with regards to benefits, overtime, guaranteed salary but we're treated as employees when it comes to accepting or not accepting the job and determining price



Yozee said:


> How would you sue them for cancellations? You agreed to take the call, then you cancelled it...
> 
> You can sue for acceptance but cancellations is kinda your "fault".
> 
> ...


You agreed to take the job sight unseen because that's your only option. Do any contractors anywhere accept jobs sight unseen?



Ribak said:


> Why even complain? Just quit driving and find another job. If that is not possible, then be thankful for UBER.


So take it or leave it? How about work the system as it currently exists so it's worthwhile for you and help expose the corrupt system so the next guy doesn't walk into the same bs


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> That's the problem, Uber wants it both ways. We're contractors with regards to benefits, overtime, guaranteed salary but we're treated as employees when it comes to accepting or not accepting the job and determining price
> 
> You agreed to take the job sight unseen because that's your only option. Do any contractors anywhere accept jobs sight unseen?
> 
> So take it or leave it? How about work the system as it currently exists so it's worthwhile for you and help expose the corrupt system so the next guy doesn't walk into the same bs


The system is set up for success. There are changes and improvements needed. The best change is for low performing drivers to leave.


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## NCHeel (Jan 5, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> we're treated as employees when it comes to accepting or not accepting the job and determining price


If I hire a contractor who will only do certain jobs that he/she thinks are more profitable I will find a different contractor. That is exactly how contractors are treated.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

NCHeel said:


> If I hire a contractor who will only do certain jobs that he/she thinks are more profitable I will find a different contractor. That is exactly how contractors are treated.


If you were a professional painter contracted to paint a fee by the square foot, and I called you up, had you drive 20 miles to my house, and told you to paint all 6 sides of a lego evenly... you probably wouldn't be happy.


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> If you were a professional painter contracted to paint a fee by the square foot, and I called you up, had you drive 20 miles to my house, and told you to paint all 6 sides of a lego evenly... you probably wouldn't be happy.


LOL. Wow, you really don't understand this.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> If you were a professional painter contracted to paint a fee by the square foot, and I called you up, had you drive 20 miles to my house, and told you to paint all 6 sides of a lego evenly... you probably wouldn't be happy.


Perfect analogy ...Oh, and LOL



Ribak said:


> LOL. Wow, you really don't understand this.


No. I'd say it is YOU who doesn't understand this.....at all. For example ( and as stated previously elsewhere, on multiple occasions ), on an almost daily basis I get a req into LGA, JFK, etc. at aprx 2pm. I could almost set my watch to the req's. So what ? Well, at 2pm what should be an hour and a half into the city turns into a rolling parking lot of a 3 to 4 hour trip. That's just into the AP. With regards to LGA and the construction-related traffic NIGHTMARE that now exists there, it takes anywhere from .5 to an entire hour just to get back the fk OUT of said AP. Then another 3 to 4 hours back empty handed. Almost an entire work-day all for $60 on one single fare. Now imagine my financials at the end of any given month if I actually take these trips where-as I can safely count on making at least three times as much by letting them go and remaining local. No smart businessman would even HAVE to think about this. Yet YOU believe I should take it or leave it ( well, in a way I am leaving it. At least the trips that cost me just as much as I'd make off of them ). The problem is "certain" individuals insist on rideshare being synonymous with car service. It is not and, given the costs to the driver ( and not some multiple car fleet owner with tax breaks etc ), nor should it be regarded as such. The VAST majority of my trips are 5 star. Guess all that makes me a "low performing driver", right ? Nope. Not at all. Just a smarter businessman than you, apparently


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

UberMensch3000 said:


> Perfect analogy ...Oh, and LOL
> 
> No. I'd say it is YOU who doesn't understand this.....at all. For example ( and as stated previously elsewhere, on multiple occasions ), on an almost daily basis I get a req into LGA, JFK, etc. at aprx 2pm. I could almost set my watch to the req's. So what ? Well, at 2pm what should be an hour and a half into the city turns into a rolling parking lot of a 3 to 4 hour trip. That's just into the AP. With regards to LGA and the construction-related traffic NIGHTMARE that now exists there, it takes anywhere from .5 to an entire hour just to get back the fk OUT of said AP. Then another 3 to 4 hours back empty handed. Almost an entire work-day all for $60 on one single fare. Now imagine my financials at the end of any given month if I actually take these trips where-as I can safely count on making at least three times as much by letting them go and remaining local. No smart businessman would even HAVE to think about this. Yet YOU believe I should take it or leave it ( well, in a way I am leaving it. At least the trips that cost me just as much as I'd make off of them ). The problem is "certain" individuals insist on rideshare being synonymous with car service. It is not and, given the costs to the driver ( and not some multiple car fleet owner with tax breaks etc ), nor should it be regarded as such. The VAST majority of my trips are 5 star. Guess all that makes me a "low performing driver", right ? Nope. Not at all. Just a smarter businessman than you, apparently


You definitely understand (based on current thread as well as previous posts). "Trafficat" is the one who does not get it.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Ribak said:


> You definitely understand (based on current thread as well as previous posts). "Trafficat" is the one who does not get it.


" I'm so confused " 
- Vincent Barberino -


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

I see where you guys are coming from, but we also have to keep in mind the nature of the business. They can't let all drivers puck and choose their rides, that would make the whole process a terrible experience for riders. "Ah, screw them pax" you say, sure, but then they'll stop using the platform and you will lose this "job" or whatever you call it. It's really easy to sit back and complain about things from one side of the system, only feeling like your side is the only one that truly matters. But for the platform, be it Uber or Lyft, it's a much more complicated process. They have to balance drivers and riders preferences and requirements all the time, and IMO, other than the crazy price war that brought the pricing to an absolute minimum, they're doing a good enough job at that.

As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


Well said. Quite a bit of wisdom here.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> I see where you guys are coming from, but we also have to keep in mind the nature of the business. They can't let all drivers puck and choose their rides, that would make the whole process a terrible experience for riders. "Ah, screw them pax" you say, sure, but then they'll stop using the platform and you will lose this "job" or whatever you call it. It's really easy to sit back and complain about things from one side of the system, only feeling like your side is the only one that truly matters. But for the platform, be it Uber or Lyft, it's a much more complicated process. They have to balance drivers and riders preferences and requirements all the time, and IMO, other than the crazy price war that brought the pricing to an absolute minimum, they're doing a good enough job at that.
> 
> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


If any business continually engaged in an activity to the extent and cost that these daily AP req's represent, that business would not be here in a year. There comes a time in any business where one HAS to "pick and choose" in order to survive. This is Uber, not a livery service charging four times as much plus a premium for going out of state


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> If you were a professional painter contracted to paint a fee by the square foot, and I called you up, had you drive 20 miles to my house, and told you to paint all 6 sides of a lego evenly... you probably wouldn't be happy.


Oh, and by the way, I am going to pay the contracted square foot rate for you to paint this lego.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

And FYI to the general population; Contractors turn down work all the time. I was a painter for many years. If there was a fortune to be made at location B, you bet you @55 we weren't taking on location A


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

I'm sure professional painters have some kind of minimum charge, and even if they just paint a lego brick, as long as they get their minimum paid to them, they shouldn't care. Just like Uber drivers have their minimum payout. We all know what it is, we agree to it by continuing to use the platform.

PS. Maybe it's $25 per hour, Maybe $100, if the job takes 5 minutes, they still charge for one hour.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

NCHeel said:


> If I hire a contractor who will only do certain jobs that he/she thinks are more profitable I will find a different contractor. That is exactly how contractors are treated.


And as you've found out no one will work for you


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## NCHeel (Jan 5, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> If you were a professional painter contracted to paint a fee by the square foot, and I called you up, had you drive 20 miles to my house, and told you to paint all 6 sides of a lego evenly... you probably wouldn't be happy.


I'd be ecstatic as I have a $150 minimum in our contract. Just like a plumber who has a $85 minimum or an AC guy who has a $100 minimum. I give many rides where the rider supplements more than the base plus mileage and time. Want me to paint a Lego or a wall? No problem because the minimum price is the same.



tomatopaste said:


> And as you've found out no one will work for you


Uber drivers prove that statement not valid. If you wont do it someone else will.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Ribak said:


> The system is set up for success. There are changes and improvements needed. The best change is for low performing drivers to leave.


Obviously the system is not set up for suc


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> I'm sure professional painters have some kind of minimum charge, and even if they just paint a lego brick, as long as they get their minimum paid to them, they shouldn't care. Just like Uber drivers have their minimum payout. We all know what it is, we agree to it by continuing to use the platform.
> 
> PS. Maybe it's $25 per hour, Maybe $100, if the job takes 5 minutes, they still charge for one hour.


"We all know what the fee is for living on this farm and picking. We agreed to it when we accepted the job."

-Migrant workers, circa "Harvest of Shame," 1960


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Obviously the system is not set up for suc





Ribak said:


> The system is set up for success. There are changes and improvements needed. The best change is for low performing drivers to leave.


Obviously the system is not set up for success. Uber is losing billions every year. Most executives have quit or been fired. They can't find anyone willing to head this Titanic. Drivers are destroying their cars for peanuts and are pissed. Investors are pulling their hair out. Even the subsidized passengers are unhappy.


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


You knew what the job entailed when you signed up. You drive pieces of shit from point A to point B. You make that life changing money at the same time.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

Hey guys, just never say that you cancelled due to their destinations and you'll be fine. I'm always having a flat tire, running out of gas, or need a restroom break...


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

For the cab companies around here, the drivers are independent contractors. Still, you do not tell the driver where the trips are going. If you did that, they would be killing each other for certain trips while other trips went uncovered. The TNCs apply the same logic. I have known only one cab company where it ever worked that the drivers saw the destinations and cancelled trips that they did not want with impunity. Somebody always went to get the trip.


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

Basically, anyone to whom it makes sense to tell drivers the trip details before the pick up is very naive, most likely very young and still has so much to learn about business, and generally, about life. Good luck amigos.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> For the cab companies around here, the drivers are independent contractors. Still, you do not tell the driver where the trips are going. If you did that, they would be killing each other for certain trips while other trips went uncovered. The TNCs apply the same logic. I have known only one cab company where it ever worked that the drivers saw the destinations and cancelled trips that they did not want with impunity. Somebody always went to get the trip.


You either charge a reasonable minimum fare like cabs do or you allow drivers to cancel. You can't force drivers to drive 10 miles to pickup a pax for a 3 dollar fare. Well, unless you have billions of investor cash to flush down the toilet on driver turnover.

You can argue all day long that this is a workable model but until Uber starts turning a profit with this model, it's all just happy talk.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> You either charge a reasonable minimum fare like cabs do or you allow drivers to cancel. You can't force drivers to drive 10 miles to pickup a pax for a 3 dollar fare. Well, unless you have billions of investor cash to flush down the toilet on driver turnover.
> 
> You can argue all day long that this is a workable model but until Uber starts turning a profit with this model, it's all just happy talk.


The cab companies used this model for years and turned a profit.

On Uber, if you do not want to run, do not accept the trip. When the cab companies had voice dispatch, if you did not want a trip, you kept your mouth closed. The digital equivalent of keeping you mouth closed is keeping your finger (or stylus) off the screen.

One of the advantages of voice dispatch was that if you had a trip that was worth chasing, you could get a driver you could trust, hit him with it and we went to cover it. Failing finding a hip driver, you could advertise the destination. This also worked in getting regulars covered. As a voice dispatcher, though, you had to be careful how often you did this, as I have seen it get to the point with less competent dispatchers that the sharpshooters would wait for them to spot the jobs (announce the destinations) before they opened their mouth.

My Taxi used to advertise certain airport jobs, but not all of them. I did have it once on Uber Taxi, as well, shortly after it launched here (before the launch of UberX).

One of the rules on voice dispatch was that if you were going to run a driver, you had better have a good reason why. Computer based digital call assignment falls short, here. Despite, that, I have little doubt that it would be possible to program the application to announce the destination of the driver were __________minutes or _________miles/kM away from the address. Failing that, it should be possible to program the thing to provide a backup for a driver that is chasing something. On voice, what we would do is tell the driver to call at [intersection}. You hit him with the first job, then told him to call when he dropped. What you tried to do was give him three or four short trips, or two or three shorts and a mediocre. Often, though, you had the short trip, but you had a really good one coming up in [time], so you would run the driver for the short trip, tell him "CHOP! CHOP!! CHOP!!!" because you had something due in_____________ to back up the driver.

It should be possible to program an application in a similar manner. If they can stack pings, they can do this.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The cab companies used this model for years and turned a profit.
> 
> On Uber, if you do not want to run, do not accept the trip. When the cab companies had voice dispatch, if you did not want a trip, you kept your mouth closed. The digital equivalent of keeping you mouth closed is keeping your finger (or stylus) off the screen.
> 
> ...


Cab companies charge twice what Uber charges.
Cab companies don't try to cater to kids going to Walmart
What's the minimum fare to order a taxi? $12 bucks?
No one would have a problem with short rides if the minimum fare was 10 bucks for the driver


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Cab companies charge twice what Uber charges.
> Cab companies don't try to cater to kids going to Walmart
> What's the minimum fare to order a taxi? $12 bucks?
> No one would have a problem with short rides if the minimum fare was 10 bucks for the driver


Perhaps they do in Salt Lake City, but that is not the case in the Capital of Your Nation. It is not the case in New York City, either. The bottom line here is that UberX is about sixty to seventy per-cent of what a cab costs. While the TNC driver here may receive only half what the cab driver receives, do not forget to include Uber's twenty/twenty-five per-cent, as well as the "booking fee" that Uber keeps jacking up. Even Uber knows that lower booking fees do not mean higher earnings for Uber.

Cab companies do and have accepted requests for transportation from anyone going to or from Wally World, Sears and Sawbucks, Giant, Safeway, Harris Teeter, Whole Paycheck, K-Mart, Tar-ZHAY and Best Buy. In fact, the one Tar-ZHAY that is within the District of Columbia is a major source of customers for the cab drivers. When the Howard freshmen show up, I make a killing in the cab at that Tar-ZHAY. In fact, I have a funny HWB story about that Tar-ZHAY. I leave the UberX car at home when the freshmen show up at any of the schools. They are not all using UberX/Uber Pool. Uber does offer taxis here, something that it does not do anywhere in Utah.

The minimum fare for a taxi in the Capital or Your Nation, Boston or New York is the meter drop plus applicable surcharges. I would have to look up Boston and New York, but in the Capital of Your Nation, it is a three dollar drop, plus a twenty-five cent equipment surcharge plus a twenty-five cent Department of For Hire Vehicles surchrge. Thus, the minimum fare in the Capital of Your Nation is three dollars fifty. If you call a cab, there is a two dollar surcharge, as the number or "dispatch" cabs are in the minority. Drivers pay extra to accept "dispatch", except on Uber Taxi. It has cost extra to call (as opposed to hail) a cab in the Capital of Your Nation since the 1920s. I do not know, off the top of my head, what cab rates are anywhere in Utah. I have actually looked them up for purposes of testimony before the City Council or DFHV, but it has been some time.

The average "local", "jerk run" or "short trip" in the Capital of Your Nation is five dollars fifty to seven dollars twenty-eight. Unless a trip is worth fifteen dollars or more, as a rule, it _*ain't*_ worth chasing. If it is going to take you forever and fifteen days to run it, it _*ain't*_ worth chasing, _*neither*_.

The short trips are fine, if you are close. This is why it is important to have back up work for a driver who is chasing something.


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

All I want is to know in advance if I'm going to be leaving my town for 2 hours to drop a pax off in another town.

Just a friendly ⚠. Something like, ' Hey, your pickup is 2 miles away but you'll be driving to the Big City (sorry, we know you expected short trips to the 100s of tourist spots in your town) and will sit in traffic for awhile so that it takes 1 hour to go 35 miles. Oh yeah, and when you set your destination to come back home we'll make sure we find no one heading that direction and you'll be lucky not to lose money. Have a nice day.'

I know. It's a lot to ask. I'd kill for some short trips. The 80 mile round trip coming back empty ain't worth it.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Transportador said:


> Hey guys, just never say that you cancelled due to their destinations and you'll be fine. I'm always having a flat tire, running out of gas, or need a restroom break...


Only time I explicitly state destination being the issue is when they want to go out of state on a four hour foray into the bowels of NYC at 2 in the afternoon. Actually, come to think of it it's the only time destination


MHR said:


> All I want is to know in advance if I'm going to be leaving my town for 2 hours to drop a pax off in another town.
> 
> Just a friendly ⚠. Something like, ' Hey, your pickup is 2 miles away but you'll be driving to the Big City (sorry, we know you expected short trips to the 100s of tourist spots in your town) and will sit in traffic for awhile so that it takes 1 hour to go 35 miles. Oh yeah, and when you set your destination to come back home we'll make sure we find no one heading that direction and you'll be lucky not to lose money. Have a nice day.'
> 
> I know. It's a lot to ask. I'd kill for some short trips. The 80 mile round trip coming back empty ain't worth it.


That's why pax are advised to contact whoever accepts the ride and give them a heads up as to lengthy trips. Same with their drool machines, er ummm, I mean doggies, etc
*Of course, that would require pax ( and everyone else ) to have actually read the best practices


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Someone on the Washington Boards just posted a topic that he received something from Lyft that states that it will show the destination when it offers you the trip.

One small popcorn, no butter, please.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Cab companies charge twice what Uber charges.
> Cab companies don't try to cater to kids going to Walmart
> What's the minimum fare to order a taxi? $12 bucks?
> No one would have a problem with short rides if the minimum fare was 10 bucks for the driver


I'd be happy with 6 minimum my cut, Rider pays 8-10.... This 2.66 BS is ridiculous. It is why drivers need to have a low acceptance rate and not take pickups more than 3-4 miles distance. Preferably less than 3.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

jfinks said:


> I'd be happy with 6 minimum my cut, Rider pays 8-10.... This 2.66 BS is ridiculous. It is why drivers need to have a low acceptance rate and not take pickups more than 3-4 miles distance. Preferably less than 3.


Even a minimum of 10 for the driver is not great money. 10 x 10 is only 100 bucks minus gas and other expenses.


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Someone on the Washington Boards just posted a topic that he received something from Lyft that states that it will show the destination when it offers you the trip.
> 
> One small popcorn, no butter, please.


And that's the SOLE reason for me signing to drive with LYFT as well. Just waiting on BG check.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Paxhole_supreme said:


> Thank god I found a good job! Can't wait for Uber to fail!


I used uber for what i needed and got away from ride sharing, I already had a career and used uber and lyft to get a few extra dollars and pay off a few debts, Uber is barely a side hustle these days.



tomatopaste said:


> This is the scam Uber is playing, calling us contractors when we're obviously not. If you're a painting contractor, do you accept a job without knowing what it is or how much it pays? Of course not. But this is exactly what Uber is doing to us. Like telling the painting contractor you have a job for him but he has to accept it before he knows what it is. Paint the whole house for 50 bucks and you the contractor have to supply the paint. You'd tell them to go pound sand, the paint alone costs more than 50 bucks. Then the painting contractor is told he already accepted the job and if he cancels he'll never work in this town again.
> 
> How is this any different than what Uber is doing to us by forcing us to accept the job sight unseen and then threatening to fire us if we cancel? You're right, Uber gets away with it only because many drivers are in difficult financial straits and Uber takes advantage of it. Problem for Uber is they'll eventually lose a class action lawsuit and be forced show us the destination before we accept the job or not fire us for cancellations.


 They need to show the destination...


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

MHR said:


> And that's the SOLE reason for me signing to drive with LYFT as well. Just waiting on BG check.


Yes, if you maintain a 90 percent acceptance rate. Which is basically of no use since half the rides are crap. However the fact that they are even doing this shows that not be able to boot drivers for low acceptance rates is starting to take its toll. Drivers need to continue rejecting crap rides. Eventually they'll have no other option but to raise rates and minimum fares


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Yes, if you maintain a 90 percent acceptance rate.


I do not remember the last time that my acceptance rate on Lyft was over fifty per-cent. They keep sending me nastygrams, but they have not de-activated me. While Lyft was not a party to the Massachusetts/California suit, I would expect that it would let the terms thereof guide its policies. I would expect that it is just as lacking in a desire to be sued as is Uber. While the judge in California did reject the settlement, the Massachusetts settlement stands. Uber's lawyers did tell it that the minimum acceptance rate made the relationship too much like employee to employer, which is something that the TNCs want to avoid. For that reason, I would doubt that Lyft would de-activate you for a low acceptance rate. If you accept then cancel (which Lyft DOES count into your "acceptance rate"), it will de-activate, as will Uber, but my cancellations on Lyft are few, even for legitimate reasons.

I do not accept the Lyft Lines and the fifteen plus minute pings, but I am still there.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Even a minimum of 10 for the driver is not great money. 10 x 10 is only 100 bucks minus gas and other expenses.


No it isn't great but is a lot better than 2.66... the extra 3 bucks covers gas and some time. I'm looking for small wins here. If the driver got 10 then the rider would have to pay 15 for a mile trip.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

jfinks said:


> No it isn't great but is a lot better than 2.66... the extra 3 bucks covers gas and some time. I'm looking for small wins here. If the driver got 10 then the rider would have to pay 15 for a mile trip.


That's my point. There should be no one using a taxi to go one mile. If they do, they should be willing to pay 15 dollars. Also if Uber wants to sell these unprofitable rides then Uber should forgo their cut of the fare. So mimimum fare is 10 bucks. 100 percent to the driver.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Definitely agree there, Uber sells a short trip and knows it, they should eat the booking fee or split it with the driver at least.

The 15 dollar min fare would hit some price sensitivity issues with riders in most markets. I'm all for affordable short rides, heck a lot of people just travel 1-2 miles from home to destination regularly. So those are all min fares by default for the most part.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

jfinks said:


> Definitely agree there, Uber sells a short trip and knows it, they should eat the booking fee or split it with the driver at least.
> 
> The 15 dollar min fare would hit some price sensitivity issues with riders in most markets. I'm all for affordable short rides, heck a lot of people just travel 1-2 miles from home to destination regularly. So those are all min fares by default for the most part.


Also my point. These people should not be in the system. No one should be relying on a taxi service for their daily commute. That's why taxis never went after this market. The numbers simply don't work. The numbers don't work for Uber either; the passengers are being subsidized by investor cash. It's not cheaper for Uber to take a pax from A to B than it is for a taxi. In fact taxis buy gas wholesale and same for maintenance.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Disagree there, Uber doesn't lose money on short trips... Ubers money issues are in OPEX, Legal and Marketing. Probably also too much onboarding and stupid expenses like self driving and the infrastructure that will require.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

jfinks said:


> Disagree there, Uber doesn't lose money on short trips... Ubers money issues are in OPEX, Legal and Marketing. Probably also too much onboarding and stupid expenses like self driving and the infrastructure that will require.


Not true. Uber loses money due to insane turnover. One reason for the insane turnover is a driver getting four 3 dollar fares in a row and saying screw this. So Uber just flushed hundreds of dollars down the toilet bringing this driver onboard


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Not true. Uber loses money due to insane turnover. One reason for the insane turnover is a driver getting four 3 dollar fares in a row and saying screw this. So Uber just flushed hundreds of dollars down the toilet bringing this driver onboard


It doesn't happen that fast. So point me to the detailed info you read about onboarding cost.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

We know what the job is. We pickup 1-4 people (1-6 if you are XL) and youre going to drop them off where they indicated. 

Just because you dont know the destination doesnt mean you dont know what the job is. Its one thing if they dont differenciate between pax and eats, which im sure they do.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

jfinks said:


> It doesn't happen that fast. So point me to the detailed info you read about onboarding cost.


Often it does happen that fast. Many new drivers realize the first day it ain't worth it but stick around until reaching their sign on bonus. Regardless, 96 percent of current drivers won't be driving a year from now.

Sign on bonuses, referral bonuses, promos, are all games Uber plays to keep fares low while still keeping (barely) the business open. All this money is coming from investors, not paying customers. Uber lost over 2 billion last year. BILLION! Everyday that goes by Uber digs itself a bigger hole. Uber has two choices: find a way to turn a profit, and fast, or file for chapter 11.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Often it does happen that fast. Many new drivers realize the first day it ain't worth it but stick around until reaching their sign on bonus. Regardless, 96 percent of current drivers won't be driving a year from now.
> 
> Sign on bonuses, referral bonuses, promos, are all games Uber plays to keep fares low while still keeping (barely) the business open. All this money is coming from investors, not paying customers. Uber lost over 2 billion last year. BILLION! Everyday that goes by Uber digs itself a bigger hole. Uber has two choices: find a way to turn a profit, and fast, or file for chapter 11.


See you cant have it both ways. First you say they quit after one day, then you say one year. If they stay for at least the bonus period uber recoups the onboarding cost.

Chapter 11 isnt a bad thing. 2 billion is nothing for a company that is growing and valued at over 50 billion..


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## Imonous (Jun 18, 2017)

Moondirty said:


> I'm hoping to be dropped for a high cancellation rate so that I can sue the crap out of them. It's just a matter of time..


I personally know drivers in my market (SF) with 60% cancellation rates. No deactivations.

Ever since they narrowly escaped the misclassification suit they've been walking on eggshells. It's why they no longer deactivate over low acceptance rates as well.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Like telling the painting contractor you have a job for him but he has to accept it before he knows what it is. Paint the whole house for 50 bucks and you the contractor have to supply the paint. You'd tell them to go pound sand, the paint alone costs more than 50 bucks. Then the painting contractor is told he already accepted the job and if he cancels he'll never work in this town again.
> 
> .


So we have to keep in mind that there are different types of contractors. 
So cable companies use contractors to fill in the gaps when we're busy, understaffed, etc. 
The contact company that works with us locally has about 20 guys. 
Most days they all have work. Some days when we have a big meeting or training they're given so much work that they don't get home until 9 or 10pm. 
Other days they're sent home with no work. No pay. 
So there's different type on contractors. Some, like the painter mentioned, is given a contract for a very specific job. He knows how much he's making and once he's done it's over. He's unemployed until he lands another job. 
Others are kind of on standby. As needed basis. 
These types of contractors are never happy. I talk to them all the time. They feel they're not treated right by the cable company. They get the big jobs. While the hourly employees get the easy small jobs. 
And it's true. Just the way it is. 
I see myself with uber as this type of contractor.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Uber/Lyft conceal the details of the job so that they can trick drivers into taking runs that are unprofitable.

Three ways I can see to solve this:
1) Increase the minimum fare
2) Automatically pay/charge surge pricing when enroute time exceeds a certain threshold.
3) Offer attractive incentives (bonuses) to drivers that are willing to adhere to a higher acceptance rate to offset the unprofitable runs.

So far, Uber/Lyft is only doing #3.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> So we have to keep in mind that there are different types of contractors.
> So cable companies use contractors to fill in the gaps when we're busy, understaffed, etc.
> The contact company that works with us locally has about 20 guys.
> Most days they all have work. Some days when we have a big meeting or training they're given so much work that they don't get home until 9 or 10pm.
> ...


The contract company in your scenario is one entity. This contract company has negotiated a price for service in advance. The '20 guys' are employees of the contract company and have negotiated an hourly rate with the contract company.

Uber is saying everyone is a separate contractor, even the '20 guys.' If the 20 guys came to work and on some days they only made 30 bucks in 8 hrs (minus the ten bucks it cost to get there), you would end up with zero guys. Even the day laborer from Guatemala you hire at Home Depot demands you tell him what the job is and how much it pays before he accepts it.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> The contract company in your scenario is one entity. This contract company has negotiated a price for service in advance. The '20 guys' are employees of the contract company and have negotiated an hourly rate with the contract company.
> 
> Uber is saying everyone is a separate contractor, even the '20 guys.' If the 20 guys came to work and on some days they only made 30 bucks in 8 hrs (minus the ten bucks it cost to get there), you would end up with zero guys. Even the day laborer from Guatemala you hire at Home Depot demands you tell him what the job is and how much it pays before he accepts it.


No those 20 guys are not hourly. They are paid by the job. There are days they don't make money. 
And yes, they can't keep their guys for that same reason, which contributes to lousy work from contractors.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to know where I'm going before I accept the job as much as the next guy.
I just don't feel as strongly as others that they have to provide that info.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> No those 20 guys are not hourly. They are paid by the job. There are days they don't make money.
> And yes, they can't keep their guys for that same reason, which contributes to lousy work from contractors.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I would like to know where I'm going before I accept the job as much as the next guy.
> I just don't feel as strongly as others that they have to provide that info.


But they know what the job pays. Yes some days there is no work and they don't get paid. But on the days they do work they know, more or less, how much it pays. They don't get to the job and then told it only pays 30 dollars for 8 hrs minus ten bucks for the ride you gave them. Then if they refuse you don't tell them: you already accepted the job and if you cancel you'll never work in this town again. And I might just call I.C.E. as well.



jfinks said:


> See you cant have it both ways. First you say they quit after one day, then you say one year. If they stay for at least the bonus period uber recoups the onboarding cost.
> 
> Chapter 11 isnt a bad thing. 2 billion is nothing for a company that is growing and valued at over 50 billion..


I'm saying some quit after one day and the cost of the background check, etc Uber has to eat. Some keep working til they do enough rides to get their sign on bonus and friend gets the referral bonus. Some stay as long as a year and are subsidized with investor cash via promos. Regardless, the entire driver pool gets turned over within a year. And Uber loses 2 billion dollars


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> But they know what the job pays. Yes some days there is no work and they don't get paid. But on the days they do work they know, more or less, how much it pays. They don't get to the job and then told it only pays 30 dollars for 8 hrs minus ten bucks for the ride you gave them. Then if they refuse you don't tell them: you already accepted the job and if you cancel you'll never work in this town again. And I might just call I.C.E. as well.


My point was just that all contactors are not created equal. I didn't think the painter example was a good example to what we do. But I get your point.
Our situation does suck. Tomato sauce wishes it was paste.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

> If the 20 guys came to work and on some days they only made 30 bucks in 8 hrs (minus the ten bucks it cost to get there), you would end up with zero guys.


Yet, here we are.

The interaction between earnings, enroute time, acceptance percentage incentives (e.g., PDB), surge, tips, etc. is difficult to compare to another industry.

It doesn't matter, though... it all boils down to supply and demand. If there are enough drivers willing to work under the terms/rates offered... and enough drivers to sustain the rider demand... the terms/rates will stay the same. If not, the terms/rates will improve.

Uber cannot force you to do anything, and we can't force them to do anything.

We can decide to work or not to work (and how to work). Uber can decide what works best business-wise (rates, rules, etc.), government can enact laws in an attempt to keep things working, etc.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> My point was just that all contactors are not created equal. I didn't think the painter example was a good example to what we do. But I get your point.
> Our situation does suck. Tomato sauce wishes it was paste.


Also the contract company has 20 guys to cover the expected work load. They don't hire 'unlimited guys' knowing that most of them will quit when they find out half the jobs are crap.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> They don't hire 'unlimited guys' knowing that most of them will quit when they find out half the jobs are crap.


That^ is a good point


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Also the contract company has 20 guys to cover the expected work load. They don't hire 'unlimited guys' knowing that most of them will quit when they find out half the jobs are crap.


There are not "unlimited guys." Word gets around. If terms are bad enough, pretty soon you find yourself:

1) Spending an inordinate amount of money on recruiting and onboarding expenses, which cuts into profit....

2) Unable to recruit fast enough to keep pace with turnover, which lessens your ability to serve customers....

3) Unable to recruit and retain drivers with the skill level desired... and/or

4) Contending with an unhappy workforce who do poor quality work or create PR problems.

Any of this sound familiar? Do you think that Uber just decided to be "nice people" and enable tipping, lost item return payment, etc. No, it was done as a result of one or more of the items above.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> I see where you guys are coming from, but we also have to keep in mind the nature of the business. They can't let all drivers puck and choose their rides, that would make the whole process a terrible experience for riders. "Ah, screw them pax" you say, sure, but then they'll stop using the platform and you will lose this "job" or whatever you call it. It's really easy to sit back and complain about things from one side of the system, only feeling like your side is the only one that truly matters. But for the platform, be it Uber or Lyft, it's a much more complicated process. They have to balance drivers and riders preferences and requirements all the time, and IMO, other than the crazy price war that brought the pricing to an absolute minimum, they're doing a good enough job at that.
> 
> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


But wait, you do have nicer car options... just pay for them accordingly. That's why they have uberSelect . As far as choosing the rides, hell yeah. I feel pax should have option to give incentive. If not getting a ride (Cuz I know I I'm asking for drive to some crappy location/ time of day/ have groceries/ any other reason), uber should have option for pax to put extra to give rider an incentive to come get him. It's only fair that way. Blind rides that uber does is one of my peeves with this system as well, and I certainly do cancel when location or traffic conditions are not favorable.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

sd1303 said:


> Yet, here we are.
> 
> The interaction between earnings, enroute time, acceptance percentage incentives (e.g., PDB), surge, tips, etc. is difficult to compare to another industry.
> 
> ...


Yes in some respects you have to applaud Uber for being able to exploit drivers, have them quit, then be able to hire an entire new crop of suckers. Only problem for Uber is the world is starting to catch on. Once you lose your reputation it's hard to get it back. Uber is dancing on a pin. If investor cash gets cut off tomorrow, they are toast. If they lose just one of a myriad of lawsuits, such as not being able to deactivate drivers for cancellations, they're toast.



sd1303 said:


> There are not "unlimited guys." Word gets around. If terms are bad enough, pretty soon you find yourself:
> 
> 1) Spending an inordinate amount of money on recruiting and onboarding expenses, which cuts into profit....
> 
> ...


Yes, all of this is true. But the elephant in the room is money. Even if Drivers were happy with the money they're making and were willing to continue driving at these rates, it's still not even close to being enough. Uber is losing 2 billion dollars a year and burning investor cash like it's burning man.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Yes, all of this is true. But the elephant in the room is money. Even if Drivers were happy with the money they're making and were willing to continue driving at these rates, it's still not even close to being enough. Uber is losing 2 billion dollars a year and burning investor cash like it's burning man.


That's a whole separate issue


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Yes in some respects you have to applaud Uber for being able to exploit drivers, have them quit, then be able to hire an entire new crop of suckers. Only problem for Uber is the world is starting to catch on. Once you lose your reputation it's hard to get it back. Uber is dancing on a pin. If investor cash gets cut off tomorrow, they are toast. If they lose just one of a myriad of lawsuits, such as not being able to deactivate drivers for cancellations, they're toast.
> 
> Yes, all of this is true. But the elephant in the room is money. Even if Drivers were happy with the money they're making and were willing to continue driving at these rates, it's still not even close to being enough. Uber is losing 2 billion dollars a year and burning investor cash like it's burning man.


All of this is true.


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## Rollo Tomassi (Aug 29, 2014)

Ribak said:


> Well said. Quite a bit of wisdom here.


 Really? I don't see much wisdom there at all. If Uber and Lyft really gave two shits about the quality of the "rider experience" they would have much higher standards for both vehicles and drivers than they do now. To the TNCs, it's all about quantity. Their sole concern is to get a vehicle (_*any *_vehicle) and a driver (_*any *_driver) to the pax as quickly as possible. They made the calculation that, in the main, riders think "cheap and fast" is more important than "professional and good". Given the results thus far, it would appear that they were right. I've been in Uber cars that had no business being on the road, let alone carrying passengers for hire. Ancient, tiny, filthy, rusty, bald tires, grinding brakes, non-existent suspension, or all of the above. I've had drivers who were clearly inexperienced, scared to death, rude, argumentative, unhelpful, unable to speak English, or all of the above. 
Yet, I continue to use the service, because it's cheap, convenient, and _most _of the time, I get a decent vehicle with a decent driver who can communicate and doesn't make me feel like my life is in danger. 
All of which brings me back to Geno71's most ridiculous statement; that it "wouldn't be fair" if drivers with nicer cars got more business. Why wouldn't it be fair? Seems like the "fairest" thing in the world to me. Why shouldn't the rider be able to choose? Why shouldn't the guy who cares enough to run a nice car and provide good service have an advantage over the "side-hustler" who feels his way around in his mom's Suzuki Swift and sits in the driver's seat as his 60 year-
old passenger loads her own luggage?


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## Ironhawk2 (Feb 24, 2017)

UberMensch3000 said:


> Perfect analogy ...Oh, and LOL
> 
> No. I'd say it is YOU who doesn't understand this.....at all. For example ( and as stated previously elsewhere, on multiple occasions ), on an almost daily basis I get a req into LGA, JFK, etc. at aprx 2pm. I could almost set my watch to the req's. So what ? Well, at 2pm what should be an hour and a half into the city turns into a rolling parking lot of a 3 to 4 hour trip. That's just into the AP. With regards to LGA and the construction-related traffic NIGHTMARE that now exists there, it takes anywhere from .5 to an entire hour just to get back the fk OUT of said AP. Then another 3 to 4 hours back empty handed. Almost an entire work-day all for $60 on one single fare. Now imagine my financials at the end of any given month if I actually take these trips where-as I can safely count on making at least three times as much by letting them go and remaining local. No smart businessman would even HAVE to think about this. Yet YOU believe I should take it or leave it ( well, in a way I am leaving it. At least the trips that cost me just as much as I'd make off of them ). The problem is "certain" individuals insist on rideshare being synonymous with car service. It is not and, given the costs to the driver ( and not some multiple car fleet owner with tax breaks etc ), nor should it be regarded as such. The VAST majority of my trips are 5 star. Guess all that makes me a "low performing driver", right ? Nope. Not at all. Just a smarter businessman than you, apparently


Believe me you really don't. Want uber to put where the passenger is going. It would be a mess trust. You would have all these drivers sitting at cherry picking all the good runs. If you had all these drivers cherry picking than there would be even less runs for you. Let's not forget all these small runs will still be coming through your phone constantly i used to own a taxi company in a college town. All the drivers drove big vans and charged 3 dollars a person. Dispatcher always gave the driver the option to pass. And yes all the drivers big groups and always passed on the single riders. I tell the drivers. try to make every passenger happy. It may be single person today. But it could be 10 people tomorrow. Though i don't agree with alot of uber policies and procedures i do agree with this one.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Rollo Tomassi said:


> Really? I don't see much wisdom there at all. If Uber and Lyft really gave two shits about the quality of the "rider experience" they would have much higher standards for both vehicles and drivers than they do now. To the TNCs, it's all about quantity. Their sole concern is to get a vehicle (_*any *_vehicle) and a driver (_*any *_driver) to the pax as quickly as possible. They made the calculation that, in the main, riders think "cheap and fast" is more important than "professional and good". Given the results thus far, it would appear that they were right.
> 
> I've been in Uber cars that had no business being on the road, let alone carrying passengers for hire. Ancient, tiny, filthy, rusty, bald tires, grinding brakes, non-existent suspension, or all of the above. I've had drivers who were clearly inexperienced, scared to death, rude, argumentative, unhelpful, unable to speak English, or all of the above.
> Yet, I continue to use the service, because it's cheap, convenient, and _most _of the time, I get a decent vehicle with a decent driver who can communicate and doesn't make me feel like my life is in danger.
> ...


You answered your own question, I think.

UberX and UberPool are marketed as the economy options. Quick and cheap, but you get what you get. Both drivers and passengers should know this. If Uber is allowing unsafe cars on the road, then that becomes a regulatory issue.

It would not be fair (to the customer who is choosing UberX and wants a quick ride) to send a car that is further away because the driver has a better rating and nicer car.

If the rider wanted a nicer car and better driver, then they can choose UberSelect or UberBlack.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

UberMensch3000 said:


> I've done many jobs in my life. This being just one. If this goes away for whatever reason, I'll go do something else again. There are viable alternatives, even for "immigrants", etc. What I won't do is be cajoled into paying for the privilege of driving someone hours away in dead-locked traffic simply because they didn't "want to take the.......ewwwww......train" because the return trip produces a non-deductible negative total effect on my income for said day...... These trips come at least once a day. I took all of them at first. A week later I sat back and did the math. Sure, $60. for what SHOULD be a two hour round-trip plus $20. toll reimbursement SOUNDS great. Until you recognize it's NEVER going to BE a 2 hour round-trip and that your return trip is basically going to cost you that $60. and then some. That, and I have personal obligations that preclude my spending an entire work shift on one single fare producing said negative income......
> * and now for some little @[email protected] with zero economic sense to chime in and claim "blah blah blah cost of doing business, etc, etc ad nauseum".......
> No, it's not. not when it'd take up each and every single day


The return toll will kill you sure, but your still walking away with more money then if you just did 10 short $4 trips.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Geno71 said:


> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


You DO see, and you can cancel without penalty the moment you know. Not a great analogy.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


Take a ride as a pax before you make statements like that.
When it's just my wife and I, I'll take whatever car. But when there's been 4 of us I'll often cancel on the smaller cars right away and try again a few times. 
So while you dont get to see a list, do you see exactly what you're getting before you get it.



JimS said:


> You DO see, and you can cancel without penalty the moment you know. Not a great analogy.


Yeah how did we let him get away with that?


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Ironhawk2 said:


> Believe me you really don't. Want uber to put where the passenger is going. It would be a mess trust. You would have all these drivers sitting at cherry picking all the good runs. If you had all these drivers cherry picking than there would be even less runs for you. Let's not forget all these small runs will still be coming through your phone constantly i used to own a taxi company in a college town. All the drivers drove big vans and charged 3 dollars a person. Dispatcher always gave the driver the option to pass. And yes all the drivers big groups and always passed on the single riders. I tell the drivers. try to make every passenger happy. It may be single person today. But it could be 10 people tomorrow. Though i don't agree with alot of uber policies and procedures i do agree with this one.


My argument is with Uber calling us "contractors" when we're not. They call us contractors so they don't have to pay benefits. So I say fine, we're contractors, then show us the job and we'll decide if we want to take it.



jfinks said:


> See you cant have it both ways. First you say they quit after one day, then you say one year. If they stay for at least the bonus period uber recoups the onboarding cost.
> 
> Chapter 11 isnt a bad thing. 2 billion is nothing for a company that is growing and valued at over 50 billion..


Chapter 11 isn't a bad thing? Tell that to the investors that have billions of dollars on the line.

2 billion dollars is nothing? Losing 2 billion a year is huge for any company. But even worse when the 2 billion didn't even go to building anything. Kalanick likes to think he's Jeff Bezos, he's not. Bezos lost money every year building warehouses and automation so eventually he could deliver product more efficiently. Uber is simply burning cash by paying customers to be customers. Like many on here can attest, when mom stops paying kids to be your friend, you end up with no friends. Hi Uber.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Chapter 11 isn't a bad thing? Tell that to the investors that have billions of dollars on the line.


Well yeah sucks for them. But that's the risk they took when they invested.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> Well yeah sucks for them. But that's the risk they took when they invested.


True but investor cash is the only thing keeping the lights on at Uber.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Geno71 said:


> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


Personally I think that's how it should be. People with nicer cars deserve more business. People with crappy cars (me) would benefit from the pax who downrate for crappy cars not stepping foot in my vehicle.

The only bad thing about it is that it would make it easier for government goons to go after drivers by finding them on the map. There is an advantage to all drivers when half the cars on the map are fake and the rest are anonymous.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> The only bad thing about it is that it would make it easier for government goons to go after drivers by finding them on the map. There is an advantage to all drivers when half the cars on the map are fake and the rest are anonymous.


Why would need to find drivers in the map? You can see them all over with the trade dress


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Geno71 said:


> ...
> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


Umh...Riders absolutely can pick and choose if they want the car they matched with. Riders can cancel as soon as they see the match they were given. App shows them the driver's picture and what car they are driving. If Rider does not like the 'prius' - EzPZ - Cancel...no repercussion to Rider.


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## Lolinator (Jun 21, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


you can complain and protest

or even start your own uber

your single vote does not matter


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Lolinator said:


> you can complain and protest
> 
> or even start your own uber
> 
> your single vote does not matter


Of course it matters. I'm a well-known member


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Take a ride as a pax before you make statements like that.
> When it's just my wife and I, I'll take whatever car. But when there's been 4 of us I'll often cancel on the smaller cars right away and try again a few times.
> So while you dont get to see a list, do you see exactly what you're getting before you get it.
> 
> Yeah how did we let him get away with that?


Oh yeah, school me.... What a great convenience to request/cancel/request/cancel/request/cancel... how long will it take? With every cancel you will likely increase the arrival time, so by the time I find the car I like, I'll have a 30 minutes wait time. And the driver will probably cancel because he has to drive more than 3 miles to pick me up.

I watched a chick in my car... trying to request me, getting drivers other than me, and same 3 drivers over and over, until she got put on time out. So please, tell me more how as a "Pax" I can request and cancel as much as I want to select a driver/car that I like, I sure don't know anything about that. So maybe it's you guys that don't take enough rides as "Pax", so maybe an example of a situation as a driver will help. Do you not recall times when you get a request, then they cancel, you say "oh well", and in a minute or tho the request from the same person comes in again? Because I had that few times, so clearly you're full... of. it.



UberLaLa said:


> Umh...Riders absolutely can pick and choose if they want the car they matched with. Riders can cancel as soon as they see the match they were given. App shows them the driver's picture and what car they are driving. If Rider does not like the 'prius' - EzPZ - Cancel...no repercussion to Rider.


UberLaLa See above

My point was that there are some limitations on both ends, and that's how it has to be so people don't abuse the system. For it to work well, it needs to be reliable. You request a ride, you get it, asap, not on a 10th driver 45 minutes away. You want to drive, you get requested, not once every two hours because people don't like what you drive or the color of your skin. You wouldn't like that as a driver, so why should riders have to deal with your picky ass?


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Geno71 said:


> Oh yeah, school me.... What a great convenience to request/cancel/request/cancel/request/cancel... how long will it take? With every cancel you will likely increase the arrival time, so by the time I find the car I like, I'll have a 30 minutes wait time. And the driver will probably cancel because he has to drive more than 3 miles to pick me up.
> 
> I watched a chick in my car... trying to request me, getting different drivers, and the same drivers over and over, until she got put on time out. So please, tell me more how as a "Pax" I can request and cancel as much as I want to select a driver/car that I like, I sure don't know anything about that. So maybe it's you guys that don't take enough rides as "Pax", so as a driver, do you not recall times when you get a request, then they cancel, you say "oh well" and in a minute it comes in again? Because I had that few times, so clearly you're full... of. it.
> 
> UberLaLa See above


Order UberBlack. What do you want for pennies on the mile with UberX?

Your _NLR_ was earned I see.


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> Order UberBlack. What do you want for pennies on the mile with UberX?
> 
> Your _NLR_ was earned I see.


I don't want jack... I only used it as an example. I still think it's a valid one, even if personally I don't care what car it is. A lot of you guys are too eager to prove someone else wrong. I never said that I want it that way, or that I want a limo for "pennies on the mile", you're arguing wrong points.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Geno71 said:


> Oh yeah, school me.... What a great convenience to request/cancel/request/cancel/request/cancel... how long will it take? With every cancel you will likely increase the arrival time, so by the time I find the car I like, I'll have a 30 minutes wait time. And the driver will probably cancel because he has to drive more than 3 miles to pick me up.
> 
> I watched a chick in my car... trying to request me, getting different drivers, and the same drivers over and over, until she got put on time out. So please, tell me more how as a "Pax" I can request and cancel as much as I want to select a driver/car that I like, I sure don't know anything about that. So maybe it's you guys that don't take enough rides as "Pax", so as a driver, do you not recall times when you get a request, then they cancel, you say "oh well" and in a minute the request from the same person comes in again? Because I had that few times, so clearly you're full... of. it.
> 
> ...


I have had a request come in as a driver and get canceled multiple times I lost track but it felt like 7 or 8 times on a pool ride with someone else in the car already. I agree with you that it is not easy or even practical for a passenger to be able to choose another vehicle if they do not like the one they had originally.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> Oh yeah, school me.... What a great convenience to request/cancel/request/cancel/request/cancel... how long will it take? With every cancel you will likely increase the arrival time, so by the time I find the car I like, I'll have a 30 minutes wait time. And the driver will probably cancel because he has to drive more than 3 miles to pick me up.


Yeah you got schooled Geno.
In case you havent noticed, there's ants everywhere. It will not increase arrival time! 30 minutes? Are you high? Ants are everywhere!
I'm telling you I have done this many times. it takes 10 cancels then you get on a 24 hour timeout.
If that happens, rinse and repeat with Lyft.
But I have always been successful and getting a nice SUV for X prices. Just takes a few tries.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Geno71 said:


> I don't want jack... I only used it as an example. I still think it's a valid one, even if personally I don't care what car it is. A lot of you guys are too eager to prove someone else wrong. I never said that I want it that way, or that I want a limo for "pennies on the mile", you're arguing wrong points.


Hmmmm... _maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? _



Uberfunitis said:


> I have had a request come in as a driver and get canceled multiple times I lost track but it felt like 7 or 8 times on a pool ride with someone else in the car already. I agree with you that it is not easy or even practical for a passenger to be able to choose another vehicle if they do not like the one they had originally.


At UberX rates...passenger should NEVER expect more than this:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/so-i-took-an-4-61-rated-uber-ride-today.188121/#post-2805065


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> Oh yeah, school me.... What a great convenience to request/cancel/request/cancel/request/cancel... how long will it take? With every cancel you will likely increase the arrival time, so by the time I find the car I like, I'll have a 30 minutes wait time. And the driver will probably cancel because he has to drive more than 3 miles to pick me up.
> 
> I


Here's proof. I didn't want to ride in a dodge dart. Saw the Scion xb. Wife said she's always wanted to see one of those square cars on the inside. So we took it. He was right around the corner


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Here's proof. I didn't want to ride in a dodge dart. Saw the Scion xb. Wife said she's always wanted to see one of those square cars on the inside. So we took it. He was right around the corner
> 
> View attachment 143329


Did you cancel a ride and get a new one and get in that vehicle and arrive at your destination and even rate the driver five stars all in one minute?


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

Driving for UBER can actually be profitable and fun. You just need to master to game. I am retired but still wanted to work when I felt like it. It took a few weeks to figure it out but when I did it become profitable and real fun. I UBER about 25 hours a week and NET $27 to $33 or more an hour. I have close to 3000 trips and maintain a 4.96 to 5.00. I work downtown and nights only. I focus on the party crowd and late DIA trips. I bought an indestructible 2006 ford escape with easy to clean interior. Paid less than $2k for it. Here is what works well. 1- car is always spotless inside. Checked every trip. The outside is not as important. 2- I dress casual but sharp. No t-shirts. Dress jeans and button down or polo. Clean shaved. 3- when at all possible I get out at each pick up-greet the rider and open their door. The same when dropping off. 4- I am stocked to the max. Star bursts..werthers. ..cold water...hand sanitizer ....lotion...lint brush...ibuprofen. ..stain stick...hair spray...sewing kit...wet naps....charger and aux cords....umbrella and a few other things. It costs $5.72 a day and most of the supplies come from the dollar store. (From the moment I open the door for the rider they are elated. When they see the assortment of goodies I am at a 5 star before the car even moves.) 5- talk with the client. Engage them. The vast majority real want a conversation. Be positive. Compliment them. Be interested in them and what they have to say. Avoid the word NO when evit possible. Be happy and up beat. If they are sad or angry...cheer them up. Make their day/night!!!! 6- read the destination address before you take off to avoid errors. If a change in a route is needed talk to the rider first. If you make a navigation mistake....admit it and apologize. 7-look for things you can do for the rider. If from out of state offer ideas for sight seeing or eateries. Ask if the rider needs to stop for anything. Cigarettes beer etc. It will pay off when the tip rolls around. ............even before tipping was ok I attempted to reject more than $80 a day in tips. More than pays for the supplies and extra time. In conclusion: UBER can be profitable you make it happen.


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

Cableguynoe

I like how you conveniently ignore the point that when pax cancel and request again they often get the same driver.But maybe not where you are, I'll give you that, I wouldn't know, the same as you wouldn't know how it is here. Here in Pittsburgh, it's very common to have to wait 15 minutes for the car as it is, and if canceled, you're very likely to get the same driver when you request again. I don't play those games as a rider, but I've seen it many times as a driver.

UberLaLa

Not sure what part of "I gave an example" is so hard to understand. You quote me like I misrepresent what I said, but I said "maybe", it's a hypothetical statement.

I'm going to _try _to clarify it again. I gave an example of a scenario that riders would love, but drivers would hate, just to point how what was proposed in this thread would negatively affect rider's experience with the platform. Never said I do that myself. Never said I think it should be done that way, in fact the opposite, I don't. Just like IMO drivers shouldn't be able to see what the destination is. It's sad you guys don't realize how it will hurt you more than you expect it to help.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Geno71 said:


> Cableguynoe
> 
> I like how you conveniently ignore the point that when pax cancel and request again they often get the same driver.But maybe not where you are, I'll give you that, I wouldn't know, the same as you wouldn't know how it is here. Here in Pittsburgh, it's very common to have to wait 15 minutes for the car as it is, and if canceled, you're very likely to get the same driver when you request again. I don't play those games as a rider, but I've seen it many times as a driver.
> 
> ...


I'll give you the _hypothetical_...but I'm in L.A. on the destination thing...very different here.


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## Geno71 (Dec 23, 2016)

Outstanding


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

UBERPROcolorado said:


> Driving for UBER can actually be profitable and fun. You just need to master to game. I am retired but still wanted to work when I felt like it. It took a few weeks to figure it out but when I did it become profitable and real fun. I UBER about 25 hours a week and NET $27 to $33 or more an hour. I have close to 3000 trips and maintain a 4.96 to 5.00. I work downtown and nights only. I focus on the party crowd and late DIA trips. I bought an indestructible 2006 ford escape with easy to clean interior. Paid less than $2k for it. Here is what works well. 1- car is always spotless inside. Checked every trip. The outside is not as important. 2- I dress casual but sharp. No t-shirts. Dress jeans and button down or polo. Clean shaved. 3- when at all possible I get out at each pick up-greet the rider and open their door. The same when dropping off. 4- I am stocked to the max. Star bursts..werthers. ..cold water...hand sanitizer ....lotion...lint brush...ibuprofen. ..stain stick...hair spray...sewing kit...wet naps....charger and aux cords....umbrella and a few other things. It costs $5.72 a day and most of the supplies come from the dollar store. (From the moment I open the door for the rider they are elated. When they see the assortment of goodies I am at a 5 star before the car even moves.) 5- talk with the client. Engage them. The vast majority real want a conversation. Be positive. Compliment them. Be interested in them and what they have to say. Avoid the word NO when evit possible. Be happy and up beat. If they are sad or angry...cheer them up. Make their day/night!!!! 6- read the destination address before you take off to avoid errors. If a change in a route is needed talk to the rider first. If you make a navigation mistake....admit it and apologize. 7-look for things you can do for the rider. If from out of state offer ideas for sight seeing or eateries. Ask if the rider needs to stop for anything. Cigarettes beer etc. It will pay off when the tip rolls around. ............even before tipping was ok I attempted to reject more than $80 a day in tips. More than pays for the supplies and extra time. In conclusion: UBER can be profitable you make it happen.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> Cableguynoe
> 
> I like how you conveniently ignore the point that when pax cancel and request again they often get the same driver..


I'm not ignoring anything. I spoke from experience, and that hasn't been my experience. That's better than staying something because "I read it in a forum", right?

And if you want to pull the different market card, that's fine. But that applies to your post also. You weren't posting in a city specific thread



UBERPROcolorado said:


> Driving for UBER can actually be profitable and fun. You just need to master to game. I am retired but still wanted to work when I felt like it. It took a few weeks to figure it out but when I did it become profitable and real fun. I UBER about 25 hours a week and NET $27 to $33 or more an hour. I have close to 3000 trips and maintain a 4.96 to 5.00. I work downtown and nights only. I focus on the party crowd and late DIA trips. I bought an indestructible 2006 ford escape with easy to clean interior. Paid less than $2k for it. Here is what works well. 1- car is always spotless inside. Checked every trip. The outside is not as important. 2- I dress casual but sharp. No t-shirts. Dress jeans and button down or polo. Clean shaved. 3- when at all possible I get out at each pick up-greet the rider and open their door. The same when dropping off. 4- I am stocked to the max. Star bursts..werthers. ..cold water...hand sanitizer ....lotion...lint brush...ibuprofen. ..stain stick...hair spray...sewing kit...wet naps....charger and aux cords....umbrella and a few other things. It costs $5.72 a day and most of the supplies come from the dollar store. (From the moment I open the door for the rider they are elated. When they see the assortment of goodies I am at a 5 star before the car even moves.) 5- talk with the client. Engage them. The vast majority real want a conversation. Be positive. Compliment them. Be interested in them and what they have to say. Avoid the word NO when evit possible. Be happy and up beat. If they are sad or angry...cheer them up. Make their day/night!!!! 6- read the destination address before you take off to avoid errors. If a change in a route is needed talk to the rider first. If you make a navigation mistake....admit it and apologize. 7-look for things you can do for the rider. If from out of state offer ideas for sight seeing or eateries. Ask if the rider needs to stop for anything. Cigarettes beer etc. It will pay off when the tip rolls around. ............even before tipping was ok I attempted to reject more than $80 a day in tips. More than pays for the supplies and extra time. In conclusion: UBER can be profitable you make it happen.


Please please please... This deserves its own thread!! It will get lost here. Start a thread. The people need to know!!!

But please please please... Use paragraphs!!!!!


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

The thing is due to oversaturation in most markets now I honestly don't think it would hurt the passenger experience at all to show us the destination prior to accepting. There are 100-200 drivers out in my area during the day time now. If one driver won't accept it another will. Even if it is a $3 run. Hell if I am sitting doing nothing a a couple blocks away and I see a $3 run then I'd be glad to take it. Sometimes I'd even take it if it is over a mile away as long as it takes me where I want to go.


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## Imonous (Jun 18, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> Did you cancel a ride and get a new one and get in that vehicle and arrive at your destination and even rate the driver five stars all in one minute?


Don't do drugs.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> I see where you guys are coming from, but we also have to keep in mind the nature of the business. They can't let all drivers puck and choose their rides, that would make the whole process a terrible experience for riders. "Ah, screw them pax" you say, sure, but then they'll stop using the platform and you will lose this "job" or whatever you call it. It's really easy to sit back and complain about things from one side of the system, only feeling like your side is the only one that truly matters. But for the platform, be it Uber or Lyft, it's a much more complicated process. They have to balance drivers and riders preferences and requirements all the time, and IMO, other than the crazy price war that brought the pricing to an absolute minimum, they're doing a good enough job at that.
> 
> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


Fair enough, but speaking of fair; Then there needs to be a realignment somewhere rendering fair and just compensation for when ( as has repeatedly been the case ) a driver ( myself for instance ) has to drive upwards of 6 to 8 hours round-trip into NYC mid-day due to dead-locked traffic and lose an entire work day over a $60 fare. That is simply ridiculous. What's even more ridiculous is expecting anyone to "just do it" and do it repeatedly. I'd also add that, as a rider, if you are not happy with the vehicle that shows up you are completely free to cxl and re-req. It works both ways, as well it should imo



Yozee said:


> How would you sue them for cancellations? You agreed to take the call, then you cancelled it...
> 
> You can sue for acceptance but cancellations is kinda your "fault".
> 
> ...


I believe he's making reference to the whole " You are your own boss. It's your own business. The day belongs to you " BS then being followed by Uber essentially condemning those moments when you act as if.



Trebor said:


> The return toll will kill you sure, but your still walking away with more money then if you just did 10 short $4 trips.


You apparently missed the timeframe due to traffic. No I'm not. I'm NOT walking away with anything but negative income for the day. It's almost as if you either didn't actually read all that I typed or certainly didn't understand it



NCHeel said:


> You do know the job, it is to drive. What if you were a contract painter and you got hired to do a job. You show up and the paint supplied by the general contractor is blue. Oh no, I don't do blue paint. You agreed to a base pay plus mileage and time with a minimum payout. That is what you agreed to. Now you complain because you can't pick and choose the higher paying jobs. GC needs you to paint all his houses not just the million dollar homes.


Not sure who GC is, but if I had to paint each and every one of "his" houses at a loss I don't think I'd be in business for very long.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

UberMensch3000 said:


> Not sure who GC is, but if I had to paint each and every one of "his" houses at a loss I don't think I'd be in business for very long.


GC == general contractor.

He has some of the very high value jobs that you make a ton of money on but he also has some that you would loose money on. It is about balancing it all out he very much might expect you to paint the houses at loss because he knows that you are overall making money when you count the large jobs he has thrown your way.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> GC == general contractor.
> 
> He has some of the very high value jobs that you make a ton of money on but he also has some that you would loose money on. It is about balancing it all out he very much might expect you to paint the houses at loss because he knows that you are overall making money when you count the large jobs he has thrown your way.


That's all good, but completely inapplicable to my NYC scenario as that one single fare ( a daily req as previously stated ) would take up 75%+ of my work day and produce a negative income over-all. I have even moved my AO further North in an attempt to avoid the awkward situation and still got a JFK or LGA req mid-day. I simply cannot take them. If that happens to be the end-all of my Uber ...ahemmm...."career" then so be it. I wouldn't show up to work for someone else and not only not get paid for it but have to pay HIM to do so. I'm damn sure not about to do anything of the sort while "supposedly" working for myself. Would you go to work all week and pay YOUR boss for the privilege ?? My guess is no. You can't aplly "take the bitter with the better" here because, due to the time involved, there is no oppty FOR the better. Not unless I'm going to endanger myself, my car and/or my pax and drive 16 hours a day


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

UberMensch3000 said:


> That's all good, but completely inapplicable to my NYC scenario as that one single fare ( a daily req as previously stated ) would take up 75%+ of my work day and produce a negative income over-all. I have even moved my AO further North in an attempt to avoid the awkward situation and still got a JFK or LGA req mid-day. I simply cannot take them. If that happens to be the end-all of my Uber ...ahemmm...."career" then so be it. I wouldn't show up to work for someone else and not only not get paid for it but have to pay HIM to do so. I'm damn sure not about to do anything of the sort while "supposedly" working for myself. Would you go to work all week and pay YOUR boss for the privilege ?? My guess is no. You can't aplly "take the bitter with the better" here because, due to the time involved, there is no oppty FOR the better. Not unless I'm going to endanger myself, my car and/or my pax and drive 16 hours a day


I am not from your market but in DC I get some trips that I loose money on and some that I make money on. Over all I come out ahead in the end and that is why I continue, if I see that trend change I will reevaluate my choices.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> I am not from your market but in DC I get some trips that I loose money on and some that I make money on. Over all I come out ahead in the end and that is why I continue, if I see that trend change I will reevaluate my choices.


The real question is how much 'ahead' do you come out? McD employees come out 'ahead' every single day they work. But, they don't have to pay for their vehicle costs, either.


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## Imonous (Jun 18, 2017)

Entire thread is invalid because noone forces us to take trips. Grow a pair and use the cancel button. That's what it's there for.


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## Uberant777 (Jul 27, 2017)

Because we are ants

Because your


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## UberMD1989 (Apr 30, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> This is the scam Uber is playing, calling us contractors when we're obviously not. If you're a painting contractor, do you accept a job without knowing what it is or how much it pays? Of course not. But this is exactly what Uber is doing to us. Like telling the painting contractor you have a job for him but he has to accept it before he knows what it is. Paint the whole house for 50 bucks and you the contractor have to supply the paint. You'd tell them to go pound sand, the paint alone costs more than 50 bucks. Then the painting contractor is told he already accepted the job and if he cancels he'll never work in this town again.
> 
> How is this any different than what Uber is doing to us by forcing us to accept the job sight unseen and then threatening to fire us if we cancel? You're right, Uber gets away with it only because many drivers are in difficult financial straits and Uber takes advantage of it. Problem for Uber is they'll eventually lose a class action lawsuit and be forced show us the destination before we accept the job or not fire us for cancellations.


Although I disagree with that decision to not inform drivers of their rider's location ahead of time, I have worked as an independent contractor where I had to blindly accept quality control audits before I was informed of the business I was auditing.


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## Pig Pen (Feb 8, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


They don't enforce acceptance rates, they just send annoying emails about it. Keep your cancel rate above 10%, you'll avoid being deactivated. I think if cancel rate is below 10% 3 weeks in a row you get deactivated.

We aren't contractors, we are still employees.

If we were actual contractors then Uber would have to disclose pick up and drop off location as well as the value of the ride and let us accept it as it becomes available. The ping system is force feeding drivers to accept a contract. We are definitely still employees. No court will rule otherwise. Just a matter of finding someone that will fight for our rights and not roll over and be ubers w h o r e like riordan is.



Geno71 said:


> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


As a rider, you don't get a choice. That was called side car and it went bankrupt. You get which contract the driver is willing to accept. If you want a nicer car than pay for it. You can opt for a select, black, SUV or lux. But uber isn't going to let you cherry pick a 7 series from the X category.

In conclusion there are nicer cars, thats why uber has separated the cars into platforms. Choose wisely


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## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> This is the scam Uber is playing, calling us contractors when we're obviously not. If you're a painting contractor, do you accept a job without knowing what it is or how much it pays? Of course not. But this is exactly what Uber is doing to us. Like telling the painting contractor you have a job for him but he has to accept it before he knows what it is. Paint the whole house for 50 bucks and you the contractor have to supply the paint. You'd tell them to go pound sand, the paint alone costs more than 50 bucks. Then the painting contractor is told he already accepted the job and if he cancels he'll never work in this town again.
> 
> How is this any different than what Uber is doing to us by forcing us to accept the job sight unseen and then threatening to fire us if we cancel? You're right, Uber gets away with it only because many drivers are in difficult financial straits and Uber takes advantage of it. Problem for Uber is they'll eventually lose a class action lawsuit and be forced show us the destination before we accept the job or not fire us for cancellations.


Brilliant analogy. Spot on!
Love it!


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Uber would never work by giving away destinations, the solution behind making full contractual status work is design, uber lacks it, there isn't much thought put into it except trickery and threats.

For example:

Let's say they enable destinations to be seen.

You could create a system in which trips completed under a certain amount of miles increase a boost bar to get first pick to a long trip.

You then have the problem of distance for pick up and headings into dead areas, the distance problem is a bit irrelevant since it's pure capricious behavior from Kalanick to make people wait less than 5 minutes for a pick up, on the other hand the dead area dropoffs could be solved by increasing the boost bar more than the usual short trip.

Voila, you are closer to a contractor and you are being manipulated.

It's sort of odd that the only thing they picked up from game design and implemented in this app is the social engineering factor, no actual game design at all.


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## SpecialK8 (May 9, 2016)

Ironhawk2 said:


> Believe me you really don't. Want uber to put where the passenger is going. It would be a mess trust. You would have all these drivers sitting at cherry picking all the good runs. If you had all these drivers cherry picking than there would be even less runs for you. Let's not forget all these small runs will still be coming through your phone constantly i used to own a taxi company in a college town. All the drivers drove big vans and charged 3 dollars a person. Dispatcher always gave the driver the option to pass. And yes all the drivers big groups and always passed on the single riders. I tell the drivers. try to make every passenger happy. It may be single person today. But it could be 10 people tomorrow. Though i don't agree with alot of uber policies and procedures i do agree with this one.


You're not accounting for market correction.

If Uber did that, sure, there would be some drivers cherry picking. Guess what? That would actually leave a lot more runs for everyone else. Some drivers would only accept longer rides or rides in certain areas. By doing that, the market would then leave a void for a lot of shorter rides and some drivers would keep plenty busy with short rides.

On a good night, I can do 6-7 short rides in an hour pretty easily if they're in busy areas. I don't need the longer rides all the time.

Remember that Newton's Third applies here too. Market corrections are real in business. What you're saying is actually the opposite: cherry picking means MORE runs for everyone else. Cherry picking would mean some drivers would accept fewer runs looking for longer and more attractive runs. That leaves more trips to everyone else.


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## Rollo Tomassi (Aug 29, 2014)

sd1303 said:


> You answered your own question, I think.
> 
> UberX and UberPool are marketed as the economy options. Quick and cheap, but you get what you get. Both drivers and passengers should know this. If Uber is allowing unsafe cars on the road, then that becomes a regulatory issue.
> 
> ...


Black and Select are priced well beyond what most people are willing or able to pay. Why shouldn't the average rider have the option to choose what type of vehicle he or she is willing to accept within the UberX platform? It's a "free market" deal. If you want to provide crappy service in a crappy car, you deserve to get less work than the guy who provides good service in a good car. What's unreasonable or unfair about that?
Maybe there should be a level below UberX for the riders and drivers who really don't care what kind of service they get or provide. They could call it UberGoober or UberShitbox... whatever. Bargain-basement cars and drivers for bargain-basement riders. Sounds like a winner for losers to me.


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


Uber can get away with it because there is no formidable competition now where drivers can switch. There are only half cooked alternative around at best. Lyft lives under the shadow of Uber and it is basically a 'scavenger'. Virtual monopoly position allows Uber to arbitrarily impose her rules on the drivers at will.

Make no mistake, there will certainly be more formidable rideshare companies at some stage which will eventually relegate Uber to the position of a minnow by offering better deals. Then the drivers will finally have the chance to switch.

This is a free market economy after all. The market has to define the value of everything including the customers. Is this customer worth the business? Can Apple produce IPhone for peanuts ? Of course, they can. Will they ever do it ? Not likely.

Uber did however , the hardest part of fighting the regulators but the newcomers will reap the benefits due to some gross miscalculation by Uber high command. Their IPO dream is over too. They will be remembered as the Nokia of the rideshare business who started the game but couldn't just finish !


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Rollo Tomassi said:


> Black and Select are priced well beyond what most people are willing or able to pay. Why shouldn't the average rider have the option to choose what type of vehicle he or she is willing to accept within the UberX platform? It's a "free market" deal. If you want to provide crappy service in a crappy car, you deserve to get less work than the guy who provides good service in a good car. What's unreasonable or unfair about that?


Has nothing to do with unreasonable or unfair. That's just not the product that UberX is offering right now. I could guess as to the reasons... but they would be guesses.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Uber and Lyft's ultimate weapon may very well be the hundreds of thousands of third world IMMIGRANTS who arrive yearly in the U.S. and drive down wages.

The laws of supply and demand dictate that when the supply of workers in a given occupation increase at high enough rates, wages will inevitably go down.

These immigrants gravitate heavily toward driving jobs, and thus ensure a steady supply of fresh bodies to replenish the ranks of exploited drivers who quit.

Travis and Zimmer are well aware of the demographics of their drivers, and they exploit it for all it's worth. It influences how they treat their drivers.

They know if a driver gets fed up and quits, they can get a recent immigrant to take their place.

Former congresswoman Barbara Jordan warned against this type of situation, and was the reason she called for drastic reduction in the numbers of immigrants from the Third World.

This may not be politically correct, but it's accurate.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

" Bargain-basement cars and drivers for bargain-basement riders."
We're already here. It's called "X". That some other X drivers are frustrated, wanna-be cabbies/chauffers who, for whatever reason, either chose NOT to go that route or could not doesn't mean every other X driver needs to give away the cow AND the milk. There's a post on another thread where an X driver details a grocery list of all the sh*t he does and gives away. I laughed at it as I will continue to. Why ? Because my rating is only marginally lower than his, I make the same money he claims to, I get tipped fairly regularly, and I don't do or give away anything other than the ride they paid for. 
Wanna be a chauffer ? Go apply to a limo co. Wanna be a cabbie ? Go locate the nearest yellow cab stand....


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Uber and Lyft's ultimate weapon may very well be the hundreds of thousands of third world IMMIGRANTS who arrive yearly in the U.S. and drive down wages.
> 
> The laws of supply and demand dictate that when the supply of workers in a given occupation increase at high enough rates, wages will inevitably go down.
> 
> ...


I'd venture out on a limb and, from experience, add that it isn't solely applicable to driving jobs. Service industry, manufacturing, etc.... All suffering wage decline due to influx of individuals that will work for less and less.....When you find yourself at the bottom rung with mouths to feed, you take what you can get. Exploitation is at the very heart of capitalism. Some in here state the obvious; Uber charges pax as much as it can while paying drivers as little as it can.....This is not exclusive to Uber. I sell on Ebay. I try to pay as little as I can for X while then attempting to sell X for as much as I can. Capitalism


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## surlywynch (Jun 22, 2017)




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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

touberornottouber said:


> The thing is due to oversaturation in most markets now I honestly don't think it would hurt the passenger experience at all to show us the destination prior to accepting. There are 100-200 drivers out in my area during the day time now. If one driver won't accept it another will. Even if it is a $3 run. Hell if I am sitting doing nothing a a couple blocks away and I see a $3 run then I'd be glad to take it. Sometimes I'd even take it if it is over a mile away as long as it takes me where I want to go.


This is a good point. Sometimes you're sitting a home and wouldn't mind doing a few runs but you don't dare go online cause it might take you all the way to the airport. What if you could be sitting at home and see all the available rides and wait for one you wanted?

As it is now you have to have at least 2 hours of free time before you dare go online. Also sometimes you wouldn't mind staying online and do a few shorties but you're too afraid of being pulled an hour away.


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## Ironhawk2 (Feb 24, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> My argument is with Uber calling us "contractors" when we're not. They call us contractors so they don't have to pay benefits. So I say fine, we're contractors, then show us the job and we'll decide if we want to take it
> 
> I don't disagree with you at all. But unfortunately they have us by our⚽. Play by there rules or get deactivated. Besides if they hired us to be employees than we would have to work the schedule they give us and most of us couldn't do that. Since they call us independent contractors, which essentially its our own business. We should at least be able to pass out our number. Cab drivers can do that.


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## Doowop (Jul 10, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> This is the scam Uber is playing, calling us contractors when we're obviously not. If you're a painting contractor, do you accept a job without knowing what it is or how much it pays? Of course not. But this is exactly what Uber is doing to us. Like telling the painting contractor you have a job for him but he has to accept it before he knows what it is. Paint the whole house for 50 bucks and you the contractor have to supply the paint. You'd tell them to go pound sand, the paint alone costs more than 50 bucks. Then the painting contractor is told he already accepted the job and if he cancels he'll never work in this town again.
> 
> How is this any different than what Uber is doing to us by forcing us to accept the job sight unseen and then threatening to fire us if we cancel? You're right, Uber gets away with it only because many drivers are in difficult financial straits and Uber takes advantage of it. Problem for Uber is they'll eventually lose a class action lawsuit and be forced show us the destination before we accept the job or not fire us for cancellations.


Did someone say Union?


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## Jamez400 (Apr 22, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> The first shoe to drop was acceptance rates. The next shoe is cancellation rates. As contractors how can we be forced to accept a job when we don't even know what the job is? This is the fence Uber is trying to straddle. Calling us contractors to avoid all the costs associated with employees, while hiding from us what the job, ride, actually is that we're accepting.


So what i have found In my Pissed off Rants on the issues... UberEats requests don't matter the Order.. the problem is the TIME and the Multiple requests --> --20 minutes-- to Dest From --EACH Order REQUEST--... once their the deliveryis rolling its normally short ... $4. MAYBE $8 --when you drive an average 10 minutes around Portland to deliver their request. So anyway, Driving total 35-45 minutes (waiting for McDonalds to MAKE the Order) and delivering will usually be a 4$ JOB.
The Phone shows a Picture of Burger and fries. --I didn't sign up to deliver food.. it makes me SO very Mad to do this when I see Lazys ordering... (most the time). Anyway I now avoid order accepting and Uber of course says I'm CANCELING a request. If i don't accept it is not canceling... canceling is that thing that happens AFTER you have accepted a thing.. you would CANCEL it. The System seeing the only Uber car driving around at 10pm on a Thursday makes me look Really Bad when I GET FIVE REQUESTS in 1 minute.... within the next Three Minutes I will have a PERSON request that is above and beyond the delivery need.

All job requests show a blue line on the Map... you should know the distance and time that Job would be. If you don't see that line, update an app.


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## Hhggh (Jun 24, 2017)

Geno71 said:


> I see where you guys are coming from, but we also have to keep in mind the nature of the business. They can't let all drivers puck and choose their rides, that would make the whole process a terrible experience for riders. "Ah, screw them pax" you say, sure, but then they'll stop using the platform and you will lose this "job" or whatever you call it. It's really easy to sit back and complain about things from one side of the system, only feeling like your side is the only one that truly matters. But for the platform, be it Uber or Lyft, it's a much more complicated process. They have to balance drivers and riders preferences and requirements all the time, and IMO, other than the crazy price war that brought the pricing to an absolute minimum, they're doing a good enough job at that.
> 
> As a rider, maybe I'd love to know what car is coming to pick me up, maybe I don't want to ride in Prius tonight, maybe I'm going out and would love to arrive in an Acura or whatnot? Can I see the list of available cars and drivers and pick one? No, no I can't. If they did that people with a little bit nicer cars would be getting more business, that's not fair, right? Just it's not fair to make people wait longer for rides, if they get them at all, based on where or how far they need to go.


This is why they need to raise the price for shorter rides. Those rides where we get $3 are the ones that are closest to 50/50 split with uber because of their booking fee they keep all to their self. If it's a contractor position, they have to make it worth while to the contracter. Uber won't last long like this. Mist drivers are just doing it between jobs & the pay & bull shit just gets worse. Soon enough their wont be drivers to put up with the bullshit. If drivers dont feel $3.20 is worth their time, then the payment shouldn't be $3.20. Simple.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

UberMD1989 said:


> Although I disagree with that decision to not inform drivers of their rider's location ahead of time, I have worked as an independent contractor where I had to blindly accept quality control audits before I was informed of the business I was auditing.


With the current business model being what it is; With Joe Schmoe in a car driving part time on the side, any single job cannot be forced onto any one driver as far as I can see. If you work nights, as I did for most of my working life, you can't take/risk a potentially four+ hour trip at 1pm having to be into work at 3pm. And you can't say; "then don't drive past X, Y, or Z" because you've NO idea when or if you're going to get THAT trip. It'd be like telling someone to take an entire day off from work because they have a 3:00 appointment.


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