# Uber's competition: The City Bus (No, REALLY!)



## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

So, I emailed Uber and told them I would consider partnering with them under XL only, IF they would reduce Uber's XL fee from 28% to 20%. Of course they said no. Then, they explained that they're trying to get bus riders to convert to Uber. See for yourself:

D (Uber)

Jan 14 17:18

Hi,

I understand your concerns, but as we have tried to explain previously, we are confident that this move will ultimately benefit our partners, after all, Uber is making less per trip with the price cut as well!

Our logic is that with reduced prices, Uber is able to not just grow demand, but expand the market base of Uber riders who normally wouldn't use Uber due to a price constraint. If we are able to effectively become the default choice of transportation (for instance, for someone who would normally ride the bus) that means a lot more potential riders. With a larger ridership/more riders per rider, our partners will be able to have more trips per hour, will lead to similar or even higher earnings per hour! We have seen this occur with many large cities similar to Orlando from previous price changes.

In regards to the guarantees, it is important to remember one thing: they are the minimum you will make per hour if you meet the conditions. We fully expect that our partners will, if not already, be making more in gross fares per hour than what the guarantee prescribes. I ask you to be patient with the new pricing structure and the guarantees, as we know that ultimately this change is for the better.

Regards,

D | Uber Operations

*J*(Uber)

Jan 13 13:31

Hey,

Thanks for your email and the compliment! 

I have escalated this to our Operations Manager to ensure it receives the time and attention it deserves. Thanks for your patience while we work to resolve this matter for you.

You should hear back shortly. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you haven't heard back from us in the next few days!

Cheers and Uber On!

*Uber Support*

uber.com | facebook.com/uber | @uber

ME

Jan 13 08:16

J,

I have to say that is the most convincing explanation I've received from partner support regarding their fees to date! Girl, they should promote you!

However, based on the new rates, it's impossible to make a profit. Even with the guarantees! This is especially true when you consider "dead" miles (the miles you drive to pick up passengers, and the miles in between rides), it's a total loss for the drivers. Even the non-peak guarantees are less than minimum wage! In Florida, the minimum wage is $8.05/hour.

I was (and am) in the process of obtaining my own commercial insurance and medallions. However, once the rate cuts were announced, there's no way I could afford to pay commercial insurance rates under UberX pricing. You may say that UberX's insurance model fully covers drivers, but my personal insurance carrier disagrees. So does my city government. I'm the one who will have a vehicle impounded, not Uber. Even if Uber does offer to pay for citations and legal counsel, it's still a huge inconvenience on the driver's end. So I want to operate fully licensed and fully insured. How can afford to do that under the company's new service fee schedule?

Thank you,

ME

Sent from my iPhone

*J* (Uber)

Jan 13 08:06

Hi [JaxBeachDriver],

Happy to explain!

uberXL is Uber's low cost, larger capacity option. uberXL vehicles can carry up to 6 passengers and must otherwise meet all of a city's criteria for uberX eligibility. uberXL rates are higher than uberX rates, meaning potentially greater earnings for partners. The Uber fee for XL is 28%, while the fee for uberX is 20%. The site link you provided refers to the uberX option.

We work hard to connect you with riders. Often we'll provide users with discounts and promotions that do not come out of your pocket in an effort to help grow your business. If you compare Uber with some other business models, they take a fixed fee up front whether they source 1 call or 10 calls for you. This is really much more in your favor than some alternatives.

I hope this information has helped you and cleared up any confusion about Uber fees. Please let me know if you have any questions. I'll be happy to help further.

Cheers and Uber On!

J

*Uber Support*


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

*So now ubers competion is buses. This email certainly deserves some media attention. Have you contacted pando or someone? I think they will appreciate it.*


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## Moofish (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm curious as to what their reasoning is charge an extra 8% commission for XL vs. X, sounds like BS.

And how do they plan on "advertising" to these bus riders, I really haven't seen anything. And how many of those bus riders do they think have a smartphone and a credit card that they can link to an account, they really don't sound like they know how to match their target consumer with their technology.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

unter ling said:


> *So now ubers competion is buses. This email certainly deserves some media attention. Have you contacted pando or someone? I think they will appreciate it.*


They can read it here. I contacted NUMEROUS journalists after the cuts, and got little to no response, so **** it. I'm posting here. They can PM me if they want to fact check these emails. As Uber support says, I'm happy to help.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Moofish said:


> I'm curious as to what their reasoning is charge an extra 8% commission for XL vs. X, sounds like BS.
> 
> And how do they plan on "advertising" to these bus riders, I really haven't seen anything. And how many of those bus riders do they think have a smartphone and a credit card that they can link to an account, they really don't sound like they know how to match their target consumer with their technology.


Subsidized smart phones! Haven't you heard of "Obama phones"? http://snopes.com/Politics/taxes/cellphone.asp (I DO NOT WANT THIS TO TURN POLITICAL.)

Also, I've duked it out with them over the 28 vs 20 percent fees before. I'll post the link in a minute.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> They can read it here. I contacted NUMEROUS journalists after the cuts, and got little to no response, so **** it. I'm posting here. They can PM me if they want to fact check these emails. As Uber support says, I'm happy to help.


 Then you could thank them for reaching out. Lol


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## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

Moofish said:


> I'm curious as to what their reasoning is charge an extra 8% commission for XL vs. X, sounds like BS.
> 
> And how do they plan on "advertising" to these bus riders, I really haven't seen anything. And how many of those bus riders do they think have a smartphone and a credit card that they can link to an account, they really don't sound like they know how to match their target consumer with their technology.


_über will slap an ad up on the sides of buses._


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Moofish said:


> I'm curious as to what their reasoning is charge an extra 8% commission for XL vs. X, sounds like BS.
> 
> And how do they plan on "advertising" to these bus riders, I really haven't seen anything. And how many of those bus riders do they think have a smartphone and a credit card that they can link to an account, they really don't sound like they know how to match their target consumer with their technology.


Couldn't find the link...


*M* (Uber)

Dec 31 15:32

Hi [JaxBeachDriver],

The contract does allow for fees to be negotiated, but that does not mean they will be changed as a result of any given negotiation. At this time, we are not changing the fees associated with uberXL as they are working well for thousands of partners. As an Uber partner, you definitely have the choice to evaluate whether this fee works for you or not - and if you choose not to partner with us at this time, or choose to only partner with us on the uberX platform, you can do that.

Regards,
M

*[JaxBeachDriver]*

Dec 31 13:47

M,

Thanks for getting back to me. I know it may seem silly that I am trying to act like an actual partner, and not a subordinate. So, just to clarify, the fees are, in fact, not negotiable?

Thank you,

[JaxBeachDriver]

Sent from my iPhone

[JaxBeachDriver]

Dec 31 13:46

T,

Thanks for getting back to me. I know it may seem silly that I am trying to act like an actual partner, and not a subordinate. So, just to clarify, the fees are, in fact, not negotiable?

Thank you,

[JaxBeachDriver]

Sent from my iPhone

*T* (Uber)

Dec 31 13:41

[JaxBeachDriver],

This is how our business model has been set up. I appreciate the well-thought out responses, but I do not expect there to be any significant changes in the near future to the Uber fee for XL at this time. We are expecting NYE to be extremely busy, especially for uberXL. We have seen significant demand each weekend for XL relative to uberX. If things get super busy, I would strongly consider using the XL ONLY option.

Best,

T
Uber Operations Manager

*M* (Uber)

Dec 31 13:32

Hi [JaxBeachDriver],

The justification is that 28% is the right number for our uberXL business model at this time, just as 20% is the right number for our uberX business model at this time. Unfortunately there isn't some specific or public formula that I can point to.

I understand your focus on earnings but as it was pointed out below our uberXL partners do in fact make significantly more, even after expenses. UberXL is incredibly popular amongst drivers for this reason.

Last weekend was a relatively slow on in Jacksonville - schools are out, there were no football games, people went home for the holidays, etc. Tonight and Friday (for New Year's Eve and the Taxslayer Bowl) will be quite different, so we expect this to be a huge week for Jacksonville partners. I highly recommend driving between 12-3am tonight if you want to maximize your earnings! Trips are very likely to be at a very high surge rate due to the extreme demand.

Cheers,
M

[JaxBeachDriver]

Dec 29 16:30

Hi, T.

I am curious what the justification is for Uber charging the higher rate.

Additionally, the terms of service states, "Similarly, you and the Company shall always have the right to negotiate a Service Fee different from the pre-arranged fee. The purpose of the pre-arranged Service Fee is only to act as the default fee in the event neither party negotiates a different amount."

This is what I'm attempting to do. I'm starting by asking the justification for the extra 8 percent, and it seems as though there is not one, beyond the fact that you can.

Your last message about pay stated that I could make more money by driving weekends and weekend evenings. This past weekend I did that and had my worst week ever. I'm trying to stay and continue to do this job, but if I'm barely making a profit after expenses.

How can I make the money you advertise? Who is making the money you advertise?

Thank you,

[JaxBeachDriver]

Sent from my iPhone


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Lets get people off the bus and into cars, more road congestion = longer trips, less money per hour, screwed drivers again.


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## UberXWhip (Aug 17, 2014)

So after the last email, any further response? Great emails by the way! You painted those idiots into a corner. Can't wait to see more.


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## UberXWhip (Aug 17, 2014)

unter ling said:


> Lets get people off the bus and into cars, more road congestion = longer trips, less money per hour, screwed drivers again.


But but but, Uber is changing the world. The way it moves. The way it dreams. Uber is changing the very fabric of all the beliefs and traditions we hold true as human beings.

Or.... they are a schlock company that operates ahead of the law much like recreational drugs do before they are discovered by the government to be harmful and eventually banned. This shit is a fad. Local and state governments are already closing in and stopping Uber and those like it. (see the recent Uber Las Vegas launch). Un-checked, un-drug screened, un-medically tested drivers with no local supervision whatsoever providing transportation for strangers in their personal vehicle... whats dangerous about that? TNCs won't be around long.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

UberXWhip said:


> But but but, Uber is changing the world. The way it moves. The way it dreams. Uber is changing the very fabric of all the beliefs and traditions we hold true as human beings.
> 
> Or.... they are a schlock company that operates ahead of the law much like recreational drugs do before they are discovered by the government to be harmful and eventually banned. This shit is a fad. Local and state governments are already closing in and stopping Uber and those like it. (see the recent Uber Las Vegas launch). Un-checked, un-drug screened, un-medically tested drivers with no local supervision whatsoever providing transportation for strangers in their personal vehicle... whats dangerous about that? TNCs won't be around long.


I agree with what you say, its the damage that is done in the meantime. The public will need to open their eyes as to what uber really are as opposed to the propaganda uber promote


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## UberXWhip (Aug 17, 2014)

unter ling said:


> I agree with what you say, its the damage that is done in the meantime. The public will need to open their eyes as to what uber really are as opposed to the propaganda uber promote


I think as long as people get cheap rides TNC's will always have a client base. But then again, crack dealers have a wide client base too. The fact is that Uber is dangerous and libelous, both to its riders and its drivers. The government needs to do its job and shut it down for the protection of the public.


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## Just_in (Jun 29, 2014)

Maybe they will try to recruit the bus driver's as well. Bus Driver bonus referral. Recruit a bus driver and you will be featured as "Partner" of the month.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Just_in said:


> Maybe they will try to recruit the bus driver's as well. Bus Driver bonus referral. Recruit a bus driver and you will be featured as "Partner" of the month.


Let's get all those bus riders off the bus and into a suburban via Santander loans.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Who owns the city buses in most cities? OH, the entity that regulates UBER?


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## Just_in (Jun 29, 2014)

That's their goal. Pile five bus riders into your car and have them split the measly $5.00 fare.


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

You don't want those who ride the bus ride in your car. I'm super grateful that uber took the twenty something but saddened they could not take the thugs and hood rats. If only we can hook them up with legitimate credit cards...


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

That reminds me of the old Gypsy ride stop at the Oakland to San Francisco bay bridge. You would go there, pick up total strangers for the sole purpose of going into the carpool lane, transport them for free and drop them off in San Francisco at the nearest location Now that is ridesharing.

It has been going for 30 years.

http://sfcasualcarpool.com


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## uberwatcher (Sep 18, 2014)

It's true. The rates are still $1.80 here but I calculate at the Lexington KY $0.65/mile rate I would be able to get a ride to the grocery store 4.5 miles away for about $4. They are raising the price of a daily bus pass here to $3.75 a day or $1.75 per trip. This means riding on Uber for trips which are about 5 miles away is only about double the price of a bus. For even shorter trips of say 2 or 3 miles Uber is now probably about neck and neck with the bus. And Uber is much faster than a bus save for maybe major cities like NYC or Chicago.

The problem is it is pretty much impossible for a normal driver to profit at a $0.65/mile rate. You have to have special circumstances where you aren't wrried about depreciation at all and where you get maintenance dirt cheap such as by doing it yourself.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

uberwatcher said:


> It's true. The rates are still $1.80 here but I calculate at the Lexington KY $0.65/mile rate I would be able to get a ride to the grocery store 4.5 miles away for about $4. They are raising the price of a daily bus pass here to $3.75 a day or $1.75 per trip. This means riding on Uber for trips which are about 5 miles away is only about double the price of a bus. For even shorter trips of say 2 or 3 miles Uber is now probably about neck and neck with the bus. And Uber is much faster than a bus save for maybe major cities like NYC or Chicago.
> 
> The problem is it is pretty much impossible for a normal driver to profit at a $0.65/mile rate. You have to have special circumstances where you aren't wrried about depreciation at all and where you get maintenance dirt cheap such as by doing it yourself.


I'm not a professional driver. I quit Uber. My paid mileage to dead mileage was about 1:1. So even at $0.26/mile depreciation, I have to double that. My cost is actually $0.52/paid mile driven. At $0.60 after Uber's fees, I'm making $0.08 per paid mile or $0.04 per mile driven.


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