# Uber stealing surge



## Mr_Frenchie

I just viewed an youtube video by Uber Man.

He states that he has proof where the Driver and Pax app sees Surge differently. Basically you see surge on Pax side but you don’t on the drivers app. 

Man, that’s messed up! I don’t get a lot of surge where I work. But going to check next time I see one. 

I advise you do the same thing.


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## Emp9

funny you mention this , as i cant confirm they charge the pax more and show us something else. i can confirm that last night im in a 1.5 surge. i get a non surge ping within the surge box smack in the middle in fact. i thought ok the surge ended. i look at the pax app , nope still there . i let the ping go ,bam another 2 more pings smae area no surge for me showing. WTF uber? if this is true this could be why they are ok with super low fares, steal some surges from us, no wonder pax keep complaining but i see less surges than ever now.


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## Mr_Frenchie

Yeah the pax is complaining about the surge price and the driver is going what surge. lol


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## Emp9

Mr_Frenchie said:


> Yeah the pax is complaining about the surge price and the driver is going what surge. lol


 i know we are jumping the gun , but now it kinda makes sense. Pax have been saying surges are too much and all the time. im thinking to myself where and when , its been rare lately.


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## Teksaz

I watched Randy's video and I'm thinking this could be a huge game changer if in fact there's any validity to it. 

So who is Uber really screwing here? Is it the driver by not getting the surge rate or is it the pax for paying for surge pricing or both? I say everybody that's involved, lol but once the pax think Uber is screwing them, it could be short lived for Uber.


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## chi1cabby

Simple Solution:
If you think the ride should/might be a surge priced ride, you can ask your rider whether they're being charged a surge price. Explain to them that something fishy might be going on with what a Rider pays for a ride in a surge zone, when the Driver receives only non surge priced rides.

I'm sure the riders would be appalled if they are being charged Surge Price while the Drivers receive none of it. They'd be happy to share their receipts with the Driver. The riders already have the Drivers' Uber phone number.


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## Emp9

Teksaz said:


> I watched Randy's video and I'm thinking this could be a huge game changer if in fact there's any validity to it.
> 
> So who is Uber really screwing here? Is it the driver by not getting the surge rate or is it the pax for paying for surge pricing or both? I say everybody that's involved, lol but once the pax think Uber is screwing them, it could be short lived for Uber.


id say the Driver, as a sometimes rider and a driver , i have noticed that there have been a lot less surges the last few weeks then was normal and disappear quick. . we all chalked it up to too many drivers. but 2 pax today were complianing about surges all the time. granted i dont know as im not a rider in dc. but seems something is odd.

here is what i will test tonight. if surge i will ping myself. i will see if my driver app sees it as a surge. if it doesnt i will take a min ride and see if different amounts come up as charged. of course i will rate myself a 4 as to simulate a real pax.

then i will on a non surge ride ask friendly pax only if they are on a surge rate or not that the app has been "messing up" lately and i dont see it on my end soemtimes.


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## Emp9

randy has an update that comfirms it has been happening.

[video]




im surprised this isnt getting people really upset. how many non surge trips have we took or ignored that were surge and we lost money!!!


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## chi1cabby

Emp9 said:


> randy has an update that comfirms it has been happening.


It's all circumstantial & speculative.
To conclusively prove that Uber is "Stealing the Surge", one would need a fare receipt where the Fare Total does not match the payout to the Driver.
Like I posted above:


chi1cabby said:


> Simple Solution:
> If you think the ride should/might be a surge priced ride, you can ask your rider whether they're being charged a surge price. Explain to them that something fishy might be going on with what a Rider pays for a ride in a surge zone, when the Driver receives only non surge priced rides.
> 
> I'm sure the riders would be appalled if they are being charged Surge Price while the Drivers receive none of it. They'd be happy to share their receipts with the Driver. The riders already have the Drivers' Uber phone number.


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## UberBlackPr1nce

Uber can come out and say they are doing it and drivers like randy and everyone else will still drive 78 cents and stolen surges. Someone will say "I still make good money doing this"


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## Instyle

Next time someone suspects this is happening, phone a friend to request from where you are and you'll either prove or debunk the issue.


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## glados

Uber isn't really stealing surges. What is happening is that sometimes the passenger sees the "X.X surge pricing" notification when they request a ride, but after the ride Uber's system actually calculates it as a non-surge. The pax gets billed non-surge, the driver likewise gets non-surge.

It's also possible that the rider got confused about surges (e.g. UberXL is surging, he thinks that means UberX is surging too). 

If anyone can match up rider and driver receipts to different surges, then Uber is dead. This is one of the rare incidents that directly ****s over both the rider and driver.


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## UberLou

glados said:


> Uber isn't really stealing surges. What is happening is that sometimes the passenger sees the "X.X surge pricing" notification when they request a ride, but after the ride Uber's system actually calculates it as a non-surge. The pax gets billed non-surge, the driver likewise gets non-surge.
> 
> It's also possible that the rider got confused about surges (e.g. UberXL is surging, he thinks that means UberX is surging too).
> 
> If anyone can match up rider and driver receipts to different surges, then Uber is dead. This is one of the rare incidents that directly ****s over both the rider and driver.


In Randy's video all three Uber options were surging so that would not have been the case in his example. I guess ch1cabby was right again, I am starting to get pissed about Uber more and more daily. It may be time for me to bow out. This weekend I am going to drive for just Lyft and see how that goes. I feel a shift is coming, a big shift.


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## UberLou

I think someone in the media needs to get involved in this. Maybe they can get some rider receipts and try to compare. A story like this can bring down the giant and win someone a pulitzer!! LOL


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## glados

UberLou said:


> In Randy's video all three Uber options were surging so that would not have been the case in his example. I guess ch1cabby was right again, I am starting to get pissed about Uber more and more daily. It may be time for me to bow out. This weekend I am going to drive for just Lyft and see how that goes. I feel a shift is coming, a big shift.


Possible, but it's only concrete if someone finds a disparity between what the rider paid, and what the driver got. It's quite possible that a recent regression has caused some surge rides to be billed as non-surge riders for both the pax and the rider.

I would work it into the conversation -- ask the rider how they're finding uber, how many surges there are, etc. If they're on a surge ride, they will certainly say so. If you're not surging, then tell them about this behaviour and ask them to forward you their receipt "so I can chase uber and get your surge refunded".


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## chi1cabby

UberLou said:


> I think someone in the media needs to get involved in this.


We need hard proof, in the form of fare receipts that don't match driver payouts, to take to the media. Till then this is all speculation. 
Provide me with solid proof, and I'll have every major publication jumping to break the story.


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## Emp9

chi1cabby said:


> It's all circumstantial & speculative.
> To conclusively prove that Uber is "Stealing the Surge", one would need a fare receipt where the Fare Total does not match the payout to the Driver.
> Like I posted above:


this is true but it is more than speculative , i have experienced myself in dc a surge area on rider app and pings within that surge box at no surge. i thought ok it ended the first time i saw it however in rider app it was still surge . what i need to do is ping myself in a rider surge and see if it comes up non surge and if it does give myself a ride around the block and see if the fares match.


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## Uber Kraus

I also noticed surge prices in Boulder and Fort Collins slow down the last few weeks but drivers are now slimming down again and no increase in surge...


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## chi1cabby

Emp9 said:


> what i need to do is ping myself in a rider surge and see if it comes up non surge and if it does give myself a ride around the block and see if the fares match.


Just don't do while driving on Uber guarantees. Uber has deactivated drivers in some similar cases, claiming that the Drivers were engaging in "Guarantee Fraud".


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## Emp9

chi1cabby said:


> We need hard proof, in the form of fare receipts that don't match driver payouts, to take to the media. Till then this is all speculation.
> Provide me with solid proof, and I'll have every major publication jumping to break the story.


well lets look at what we know for sure, areas are in surge for the rider but not for the driver. so if its not stealing its a major gitch. how many trips have we ignored that were in fact a surge price. i also find it hard to believe pax app showing surge and they put in the number to request and they are only charged normal rate. but i agree we need proof in the fares. pax paying more than driver shows on his app.


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## Emp9

chi1cabby said:


> Just don't do while driving on Uber guarantees. Uber has deactivated in some cases, claiming that they were engaging in "Guarantee Fraud".


no danger there , we got zip here in guarantees or incentives. just a fake goal to get to with no actual bonus


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## Emp9

guys its happening in dc right now.


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## Emp9




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## chi1cabby

This is a good corroborating material.
Please accept rides in these zones showing different surges on the rider & Driver apps. Then speak with the Rider about this and see if they'll share the receipt with you.


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## Emp9

chi1cabby said:


> This is a good corroborate material.
> Please accept rides in these zones showing different surges on the rider & Driver apps. Then speak with the Rider about this and see if they'll share the receipt with you.


 i will get my proof soon, id have it now if i was in the area but im very far away. as i said i will give myself a short ride and match final fares. i am really getting angry. i stared at the map for 30 min not once did it go past 1.3 surge near whitehouse on driver app. but showed 2.5 in rider app.


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## Teksaz

I wonder if any of the drivers using the new surge finder apps are seeing anything weird like this. 

I think it would be interesting to see what the apps are showing compared to one not using the apps. 

Anybody??


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## Emp9

right now adams morgan 









and driver app no surge in that area


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## Emp9

im so far or id get screen shots of locations rider and driver app and also final fares. matter fact im going to request in a surge and look at the driver map and if it still says no surge , ill text the driver if he sees a surge or not on my request.


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## Emp9

of course i get a foriegn bobo that cant reply to a text nor tell me if it showed up surge or not when i called him. no wonder uber gets away with it.


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## Emp9

chi1cabby said:


> This is a good corroborate material.
> Please accept rides in these zones showing different surges on the rider & Driver apps. Then speak with the Rider about this and see if they'll share the receipt with you.


 once i get all the screen shots we need as far as fares not matching and surge and non surge in driver app, i will count on you cabbie to go on twitter.


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## chi1cabby

Emp9 said:


> i will count on you cabbie to go on twitter.


Nope!
We'll do better than that. We'll go to a national news outlet to run an Uber Expose´!
Then we can take to Twitter.


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## LEAFdriver

I have something to add here. I pretty much know how much a NON-surge fare is from a certain location to a certain destination. I go on the rider app...and I do a 'FARE ESTIMATE' from those 2 spots....and the fare estimate comes up HIGHER than what it should for that trip....even though the rider app does NOT SHOW A SURGE. Anyone else notice this?


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## Adbam

There are a couple of factors you guys may not be considering.

1. don't track the surge on the driver app. The driver app is very slow to update. I have seen a driver app surge stay on for more than 5 min after it was gone on the rider app. The surge price listed is only valid on the rider app.

2. A rider can lock in a lessor surge price 2 ways. First by hitting request ride button but not completing the pin. (The app even says we will save this price for 90 seconds. And second if the rider requests a ride on a lower or no surge and keeps on getting skipped (quick canceled) or not accepted. If the area has a bunch of drivers this could happen for 10 min.

I'm not saying these things are good but none of your examples given disprove these points. 

This is very simple to prove in ride ask the pax what the surge multiplier they have on the screen and check yours under rider info.


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## Adbam

Uber is about tricking their drivers and sometimes pax thru legal speak. But you guys are talking about credit card fraud. Drivers give rides to friends, repeat customers and people that sit there until the fair is calculated on your phone. They wouldn't get away with what you guys are saying for 1 day in this world.


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## OCBob

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Uber can come out and say they are doing it and drivers like randy and everyone else will still drive 78 cents and stolen surges. Someone will say "I still make good money doing this"


He actually stated that he didn't drive over the weekend because there was no surge price going on. Maybe he is learning that non surge prices isn't worth driving.


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## OCBob

Emp9 said:


> randy has an update that comfirms it has been happening.
> 
> [video]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im surprised this isnt getting people really upset. how many non surge trips have we took or ignored that were surge and we lost money!!!


Why you keep the app on when it is at or near surge and skip all those rides that are not on surge! You can see the surge and the amount when it pings.


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## Adbam

And don't forget about tax fraud. They 1099 us for everthing. The credit card companies report the amounts and Uber would have to report. We aren't talking about cash transactions....ie papertrail.

If your request says surge and rider info has surge take the money don't call the pax trying to prove the point. wait until they are in car and you are making $$$ for your investigation.


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## Realityshark

Don't you just love Uber?


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## Fuzzyelvis

chi1cabby said:


> Simple Solution:
> If you think the ride should/might be a surge priced ride, you can ask your rider whether they're being charged a surge price. Explain to them that something fishy might be going on with what a Rider pays for a ride in a surge zone, when the Driver receives only non surge priced rides.
> 
> I'm sure the riders would be appalled if they are being charged Surge Price while the Drivers receive none of it. They'd be happy to share their receipts with the Driver. The riders already have the Drivers' Uber phone number.


Bear in mind if you have an issue with the app or are temporarily deactivated for any reason (like uber messes up your registration for instance) you may get a new driver number. So if you really want to keep in touch you need real phone numbers.


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## Emp9

Adbam said:


> And don't forget about tax fraud. They 1099 us for everthing. The credit card companies report the amounts and Uber would have to report. We aren't talking about cash transactions....ie papertrail.
> 
> If your request says surge and rider info has surge take the money don't call the pax trying to prove the point. wait until they are in car and you are making $$$ for your investigation.


 would be pretty easy for them to claim a "glitch" in the system. and reimburse pax or drivers. i dont think they do it often, or even anymore, i havent seen a miss match in a while.

i stared at the driver app in one area and it never went above 1.5 , so no delay or whatever. pax app 2.5 at one point. thats hard to explain.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Adbam said:


> Uber is about tricking their drivers and sometimes pax thru legal speak. But you guys are talking about credit card fraud. Drivers give rides to friends, repeat customers and people that sit there until the fair is calculated on your phone. They wouldn't get away with what you guys are saying for 1 day in this world.


I think people have said that about a lot of the things they've done. But they're still around. If the pax figures it out, which they won't unless the driver says something to them, uber just claims a mistake and refunds the entire trip. Pax figures great they got free trip. If the driver gets screwed we go into CSR hell and since it says 1.0 TO 2.5 or whatever they claim that is the upper but no guarantee of surge and to check when you take the trip.


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## Uber NTX

My husband and I Uber DFW in separate vehicles. Sat night we expected a surge in Highland park due to the SMU game, but my husband's map wasn't showing any surging. Mine was. So we met up and did screen shots simultaneously. I complained to uber and the support tech played stupid and gave me the "surge is always changing" song and dance... Then I sent the pictures and was told that surging changed on one phone before the other. Nope. None of the surge areas on our maps changed while we were standing there watching them. I got cheated out of 6 different surge rates in a row. My husband lost out on a few also.


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## Adbam

The driver app is slow to update surge I'm not saying it's right though. If you guys had 2 rider apps showing different surges I would be surprised. NEVER TRACK SURGE ON THE DRIVER APP!


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## Adbam

If you look your app was glitching because you have a ghost pin. Same thing happens to me I don't like it to be there so I will turn of and on the app.


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## LA#1x3

Emp9 said:


> id say the Driver, as a sometimes rider and a driver , i have noticed that there have been a lot less surges the last few weeks then was normal and disappear quick. . we all chalked it up to too many drivers. but 2 pax today were complianing about surges all the time. granted i dont know as im not a rider in dc. but seems something is odd.
> 
> here is what i will test tonight. if surge i will ping myself. i will see if my driver app sees it as a surge. if it doesnt i will take a min ride and see if different amounts come up as charged. of course i will rate myself a 4 as to simulate a real pax.
> 
> then i will on a non surge ride ask friendly pax only if they are on a surge rate or not that the app has been "messing up" lately and i dont see it on my end soemtimes.


Don't ping ur self bad idea my bro used to do that he gave himself pool surge rides, long trips. Ur account should have the same name rider account and driver account if uber finds out ur done. Tell u to help u out


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## LA#1x3

Adbam said:


> There are a couple of factors you guys may not be considering.
> 
> 1. don't track the surge on the driver app. The driver app is very slow to update. I have seen a driver app surge stay on for more than 5 min after it was gone on the rider app. The surge price listed is only valid on the rider app.
> 
> 2. A rider can lock in a lessor surge price 2 ways. First by hitting request ride button but not completing the pin. (The app even says we will save this price for 90 seconds. And second if the rider requests a ride on a lower or no surge and keeps on getting skipped (quick canceled) or not accepted. If the area has a bunch of drivers this could happen for 10 min.
> 
> I'm not saying these things are good but none of your examples given disprove these points.
> 
> This is very simple to prove in ride ask the pax what the surge multiplier they have on the screen and check yours under rider info.


You r very right I'm surprised ur the only one that noticed that. A rider can request a non surge call and off he keeps getting canceled on and in the mean time it surges his requests are Gona be sent out as no surge calls cuz it wasn't surging when he requested. Eventually he'll get under surge uff his requests get canceled enough. So there is no conspiracy it's just uber network bring fked up or lagging. Servers being over worked etccc


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## LA#1x3

Uber makes so much money do u guys really think they will stoop that low, I don't why would they do such a think. I just need more proof.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Martin818 said:


> Uber makes so much money do u guys really think they will stoop that low


Yes, absolutely. But it's probably just their crappy tech.


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## AintWorthIt

I actually saw something similar for the first time Saturday night. We had a surge in town and the driver app was showing 2.5x. I had several pings come in they ALL showed a lower rate on the acceptance screen. I finally got on the passenger app and looked and it showed different rates than the driver app. I've never seen this before and in my opinion it's being manipulated.


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## Emp9

Adbam said:


> The driver app is slow to update surge I'm not saying it's right though. If you guys had 2 rider apps showing different surges I would be surprised. NEVER TRACK SURGE ON THE DRIVER APP!


 that wouldnt explian 2 different phones with driver app open showing different rates. i havent been able to catch anything solid, but im guessing when the pope comes surge will be rampant and thats when i may be able to catch my pax showing a different surge then me on a ride.


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## ddjboomer

I check the riders profile and if there is a surge noted on it, I pick the rider up, BUT if there is no surge icon, I cancel the ride.
Yes, Uber does not always give the driver the surge, but ALWAYS double check. I cancel with no charge to the rider. 
I don't do guarantee rates either because there is no way to monitor your percentage as you can with Lyft. Uber will find a way not to pay a guaranteed rate.
I will only drive surges. I drive lyft when Uber is not surging because of the tip factor, but I cancel Lyft rides too if they give me a ride that is more than 10 minutes. It is not worth driving for nothing and this included using tolls to get to your rider faster as neither one pays for the tolls until the rider is in your car and the ride is initiated toward the destination. 
The rate cuts are too steep to even think one can drive with a profit. 
Cancelling the rides is the only tool a driver has to control his or her drives. 
I do the driving part time.and this will end soon. Great idea for the riders bad idea for the drivers. Uber on-NOT.


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## DB2448

Mr_Frenchie said:


> I just viewed an youtube video by Uber Man.
> 
> He states that he has proof where the Driver and Pax app sees Surge differently. Basically you see surge on Pax side but you don't on the drivers app.
> 
> Man, that's messed up! I don't get a lot of surge where I work. But going to check next time I see one.
> 
> I advise you do the same thing.


I beg to differ. Below is a screenshot at 2.1X the normal rate I took today. The same trip to around the same location is normally $24 dollars after Fees. Includes is a screen shot.


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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> Simple Solution:
> If you think the ride should/might be a surge priced ride, you can ask your rider whether they're being charged a surge price. Explain to them that something fishy might be going on with what a Rider pays for a ride in a surge zone, when the Driver receives only non surge priced rides.
> 
> I'm sure the riders would be appalled if they are being charged Surge Price while the Drivers receive none of it. They'd be happy to share their receipts with the Driver. The riders already have the Drivers' Uber phone number.


*https://m.facebook.com/comment/repl...QKITlkPWT8d&ref=m_notif&notif_t=video_comment*


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## 80sDude

You r very right I'm surprised ur the only one that noticed that. A rider can request a non surge call and off he keeps getting canceled on and in the mean time it surges his requests are Gona be sent out as no surge calls cuz it wasn't surging when he requested. Eventually he'll get under surge uff his requests get canceled enough. So there is no conspiracy it's just uber network bring fked up or lagging. Servers being over worked etccc

I see the possibility here.. However.. Just last week I had a confirmed 1.5 on MY screen before accepting.. Ended ride and it was normal fare.. I was pissed..


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## Kruhn

Emp9 said:


>


Uber's response will be that the surge area changes dynamically, and thus, the discrepancy between platforms. While you see 1.2 in the downtown DC/K Street Corridor, demand could be increasing to 1.5 before the driver app resets itself.

They could blame your cell phone provider, etc. They'll have a few canned responses.


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## wardo5757

It's very funny that so many threads are popping up about this fraud lately. I started this one because of inaccurate surge pricing and knowing that a rider of mine paid a surge price but I did not get it. If you get a second look over this thread:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/surge-pricing-not-accurate-for-drivers.41941/#post-551950


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## Adbam

chi1cabby said:


> *https://m.facebook.com/comment/repl...QKITlkPWT8d&ref=m_notif&notif_t=video_comment*
> 
> View attachment 15338
> 
> 
> View attachment 15339


Lol does anyone else notice that the time stamps and map pictures are different on the 2 phones. Obviously the driver is showing his trip before the pax trip.


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## 2oo2rude

Crooks


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## ubersucksdick

I drove someone 55 miles and our took me 54 minutes to do this and the fare was $80 and some odd cents. I met one of my friends that drives for uber as well and informed him off the fare because the guys i was driving around gave me the wrong address. When i received my pay for the week, it was a lot lower than i thought it was going to be. So i looked at my fares and started to add them up and wouldn't you know it...the $80 fare was not in there and a few other ones were gone as well and uber deleted it completely. I contacted them and they said it would be in my account within 48 hrs and that was 3 weeks ago. Since i told them i had a screen shot of my fare (which i do with all of them) i haven't received a response after multiple attempts. Im sure they do this to everyone and people just don't realize it. I guess this will be a class action lawsuit as well.


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## RamzFanz

ubersucksdick said:


> I drove someone 55 miles and our took me 54 minutes to do this and the fare was $80 and some odd cents. I met one of my friends that drives for uber as well and informed him off the fare because the guys i was driving around gave me the wrong address. When i received my pay for the week, it was a lot lower than i thought it was going to be. So i looked at my fares and started to add them up and wouldn't you know it...the $80 fare was not in there and a few other ones were gone as well and uber deleted it completely. I contacted them and they said it would be in my account within 48 hrs and that was 3 weeks ago. Since i told them i had a screen shot of my fare (which i do with all of them) i haven't received a response after multiple attempts. Im sure they do this to everyone and people just don't realize it. I guess this will be a class action lawsuit as well.


Strange rides / large fares are often held for review for a few days. Every ride I've had over $75 has been held for a few days. I see it on the site and in the app, but not on the invoice.

Three weeks is crazy, ask for escalation.


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## ubersucksdick

I have not. They keep giving me the cold shoulder. But there were some smaller amounts that never showed up either. Im glad i keep all my screen shots.


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