# I don't understand how Uber can get away with operating the way they operate



## MikeB421 (9 mo ago)

I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

*Question: I don't understand how Uber can get away with operating the way they operate

Answer: Because most drivers protest poor treatment by Uber.......by accepting the next offer!*


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Seamus said:


> *Question: I don't understand how Uber can get away with operating the way they operate
> 
> Answer: Because most drivers protest poor treatment by Uber.......by accepting the next offer!*


Are you suggesting a strike?


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Mike,

Welcome to the forum! You’re frustrations are what most current/past drivers have stated again and again. I feel for you drivers in CA with the exorbitant gas prices. Unfortunately Uber can and do as they please. The government doesn’t care; Uber is in bed with the politicians. And the government is as f——- up and mismanaged as Uber.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

They operate that way because drivers keep driving for them. How do you think they were able to undercut your business so much that you were unable to keep doing it? 
The only advice I can offer is if you are unhappy with what they pay stop driving for them. Get a W-2 job. 
Continuing to drive for them is condoning and supporting what they do. 



MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for $75 a mile in San Bernardino county for example in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should keep getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gone paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to come include this order and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government!? stepping in am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile per minute and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example this is business it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no at base companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and wait time should be separate. How it's supposed to work is you get paid by mileage as you're running an order and if traffic is in effect then you start getting paid per minute a time rate with a pickup fee while Uber charges a separate flatw rate fee to the customer as a middleman.


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for $75 a mile in San Bernardino county for example in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should keep getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gone paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to come include this order and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government!? stepping in am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile per minute and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example this is business it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no at base companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and wait time should be separate. How it's supposed to work is you get paid by mileage as you're running an order and if traffic is in effect then you start getting paid per minute a time rate with a pickup fee while Uber charges a separate flatw rate fee to the customer as a middleman.


The answer is _surge _and/or _promos_. If you're not getting enough of either of those, it's not worth driving.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

MikeB421 said:


> I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for $75 a mile


75 bucks a mile?…SIGN IT! 🤑


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## MikeB421 (9 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Are you suggesting a strike?


I'm suggesting we all need to unite in a class action lawsuit and or past new proposition to make sure that Uber cannot use manipulation tactics and or justify our pay if they are truly not our employer. Us independent contractors need to exercise our independent contractor rights. Proposition 22 was just a bullshit proposition to make sure that Uber keeps their position as a non employer while being able to delegate us like we are their employees. I don't understand why anybody even voted yes for that with the false promises. We need to do a way of prop 22 and have a new proposition for fair independent contractors rights towards any app based company. I know I've heard I don't like it and then I should get a new job but know what they shouldn't be doing this to anybody.


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## MikeB421 (9 mo ago)

Uber's Guber said:


> 75 bucks a mile?…SIGN IT! 🤑


LOL my bad it was a typo. I revised the whole entire thing


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)




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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> View attachment 652043


Is that the universal sign for giving Uber the bird?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

MikeB421 said:


> I'm suggesting we all need to unite in a class action lawsuit and or past new proposition to make sure that Uber cannot use manipulation tactics and or justify our pay if they are truly not our employer. Us independent contractors need to exercise our independent contractor rights. Proposition 22 was just a bullshit proposition to make sure that Uber keeps their position as a non employer while being able to delegate us like we are their employees. I don't understand why anybody even voted yes for that with the false promises. We need to do a way of prop 22 and have a new proposition for fair independent contractors rights towards any app based company. I know I've heard I don't like it and then I should get a new job but know what they shouldn't be doing this to anybody.


Dude you've been here for 15 hours and
I've been here for 5 years.
People in your state were complaining about not making enough money and the govt got involved. There was a vote and you got screwed.
I've never been one to complain about
how much money I make.
These comments you have been making
have literally been brought up 100s of times.
Usually sue uber is accompanied with falsely deactivated and you are stupid to be driving uber
To quote one of my favorite movies








Uber is probably never going to do anything
in your best interest
I just need to be left the hell alone
No regulation or assistance is required
If they hadnt have been whining 
like little girls with mud on they're dresses 
you probably wouldnt have gotten screwed
Not at least anymore than uber 
would have done anyway....
Ps my comment was directed at @Seamus 
We will put you on the list of people
wanting to sue uber you are #2763


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Answer:

Uber spends a lot of money on lobbyists and politicians to keep their business intact and going the way it is as of today. That is the only reason they are getting away with it.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

-New Member✅
-Been driving for years✅
-Star rating❌
-Uber is unfair✅
-We should unite/form a Union✅
-We should sue Uber✅
-We should strike❌
-I've been unfairly deactivated❌

The post score has been rated 63% as only 5 of 8 common items can be checked off.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

MikeB421 said:


> I'm suggesting we all need to unite in a class action lawsuit and or past new proposition to make sure that Uber cannot use manipulation tactics and or justify our pay if they are truly not our employer. Us independent contractors need to exercise our independent contractor rights. Proposition 22 was just a bullshit proposition to make sure that Uber keeps their position as a non employer while being able to delegate us like we are their employees. I don't understand why anybody even voted yes for that with the false promises. We need to do a way of prop 22 and have a new proposition for fair independent contractors rights towards any app based company. I know I've heard I don't like it and then I should get a new job but know what they shouldn't be doing this to anybody.


You're absolutely correct, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with doing this to ANYBODY.

Whenever questions such as yours get asked, the usual bullshit responses follow, such as "most drivers show their disgust at being exploited by accepting the next offer". FALSE.

The fact is 97%+ drivers QUIT every year. That certainly doesn't qualify as approval by any stretch of the imagination.

So how does Uber manage to get away with exploiting their drivers despite a 100% yearly turnover rate? Uncle Sam serves Uber a virtually limitless supply of Third World immigrant replacement drivers on a silver platter every year. And thanks to business lobbying, our "independent contractor" laws are weak, vague, and full of loopholes large enough for an aircraft carrier to pass thru them.

The gig companies burn thru millions of drivers every year.

By the time Driver A realizes he's not making any money, Uber, Doordash, Lyft, Instacart, etc already has Driver B signed up and ready to go.

The govt helped create this mess and only the govt has the power to put a stop to the exploitation.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


Blame your politicians. All other forms of commercial transit are regulated. RS is not!


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> The govt helped create this mess and only the govt has the power to put a stop to the exploitation.


Absolutely! 👍


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> You're absolutely correct, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with doing this to ANYBODY.
> 
> Whenever questions such as yours get asked, the usual bullshit responses follow, such as "most drivers show their disgust at being exploited by accepting the next offer". FALSE.
> 
> ...


Man they aren't exactly doing anything to anyone other than offering them a chance to make some money 15 minutes at a time. 
I'd be the first one to admit it's not a job.
If you are in a market that doesn't pay to do the work.
You just shouldn't be doing it.
My market pays me more than twice the money I could make 
at a job that I could get for more than twice the amount of hours 
they would likely allow me to work...


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> My market pays me more than twice the money I could make


Have you ever considered being a Pimp?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Have you ever considered being a Pimp?


Omg @Guido-TheKillerPimp are you offering me an internship?
I'll work my ass off but you are gonna have to pay me in top shelf girls 😉
Ps do you have a spot for @Ozzyoz too?


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

MikeB421 said:


> I don't understand why anybody even voted yes for that with the false promises.


Never heard that before!


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Omg @Guido-TheKillerPimp are you offering me an internship?
> I'll work my ass off


Guido says only if you shave it first.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> All other forms of commercial transit are regulated. RS is not!


That’s good!…
Ridden in a public bus lately?…


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> Guido says only if you shave it first.


I'll have to think that over
Can I get @25rides7daysaweek ?
Ps this is a pimp job not a male hooker right?


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Uber's Guber said:


> That’s good!…
> Ridden in a public bus lately?…


Dude, I can't remember the last time I did...thank goodness!


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


Mike, you're lookin' kind of stoned there....


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Ps this is a pimp job not a male hooker right?


“Male hooker” is improper terminology.


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## 4848 (May 16, 2019)

Over a decade of losing billions of dollars Uber is about disruption, it's not a business seeking profits


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Man they aren't exactly doing anything to anyone other than offering them a chance to make some money 15 minutes at a time.
> I'd be the first one to admit it's not a job.
> If you are in a market that doesn't pay to do the work.
> You just shouldn't be doing it.
> ...


On more than once occasion you've said you don't care how much of a cut Uber takes and that you're happy with what you're paid. Fine. But don't try to pretend you're running a business because that's certainly not the mindset of a business owner, executive or manager. 

Actually it's not unusual for employees to care how much of a "cut" they're getting vs the company. UPS drivers were certainly interested during their most recent contract negotiations. So are professional athlete unions when they're negotiating new players' agreements.

I can just picture what would happen if one of Jack Welch's (former CEO of GE) assistants said what you said about a potential deal with a business partner. Not only would Welch fire the guy on the spot, he'd have him physically removed from the property.

Of course it would never happen because Welch would never hire anyone so utterly clueless at business.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> On more than once occasion you've said you don't care how much of a cut Uber takes and that you're happy with what you're paid. Fine. But don't try to pretend you're running a business because that's certainly not the mindset of a business owner, executive or manager.
> 
> Actually it's not unusual for employees to care how much of a "cut" they're getting vs the company. UPS drivers were certainly interested during their most recent contract negotiations. So are professional athlete unions when they're negotiating new players' agreements.
> 
> ...


I just said it's not even a job
Not delusional about what I am
or what this work is
I'm just a guy with a car
busting his ass and getting paid
I care about uber about as much
as they care about me
As long as they have $$$$ for me I'll ride hard
When I'm deactivated I will move on
You should be off running some huge corporation instead of trolling around a blue collar drivers forum.....


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> You should be off running some huge corporation instead of trolling around a blue collar drivers forum.....


I've been called various things on this website but troll is a new one.




25rides7daysaweek said:


> I just said it's not even a job


You're out of step with your fellow travelers among the pro status-quo crowd because as you're well aware, most of them vehemently insist that doing gig-work is owning and operating a business. Suffice to say I disagree with that claim. Gig workers are much closer to being employees than being business owners.

You and other pro status-quo people frequently demand that critics of the gig economy "leave you alone".

Sorry, we can't. For many years the gig companies have been allowed to get away with exploiting their workers and playing by their own rules. The result has been incredibly arrogant and hubris-filled zillionaire owners, execs, and investors getting richer while freeloading off the taxpayers to the tune of billions of dollars while paying virtually nothing into the safety nets so many of their drivers require to support their families.

In addition, the poor wages of gig workers has a dragging down effect on wages overall.

The exploitation has to end and only the govt has the power to stop it.

With a "success" rate of under 10%, the current gig employment model is a colossal failure in need of major reform.


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## Rim Mel (9 mo ago)

Uber eat is constantly stealing my tips. I was very pissed off when I saw $100 tip popped up for a split second on my cellphone screen Uber app, at that time I already made $75, it's supposed to be adding up to $175 with that huge, happy day customer's tip.
But Uber decided to steal my big tip. 
Not only that, most of the time my tips are missing, I message thief-uber to stop stealing my tips, but all I get were generic answers.
Uber shouldn't have an access to the driver's tips and have to be transparence with all of the driver's tips.
Uber eat have 3 ways of stealing money through their thief-app, 1) from the drivers tips and underpaid trips, 2) from the customers, 3) from restaurants.
If someone could help me to find a good lawyer in Toronto, would be great. 
I want to place a lawsuit for this constant stealing money.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

+19 surge...wooohoo
Drag surge to cruise boat port...yeehaw!
Get ping
Accept ping without reading...rookie mistake 😒
Pick up pax
Trip length. 26 miles
Fare $9.41
Fuel support $.55
Wait time $.12
Surge $19

Trip payout $29.09

Normally this trip is roughly $17.
Surge $19
Total. $36



So uber is this greedy. It dont surprise me as much as how pissed i am for rookie move. But this opens up an even bigger shitbox of rationalization of how much Uber relies on inexperienced drivers to run their business model.


The only thing that really makes the day better is the fact that I have the ability to run as a real taxi and make over $675 in less than 8 hours time. Thats in cash, a 12 pack of pepsi, half bottle of ciroc, 2 vape pens full oil, and 4 UFC 274 tickets in may.

Tickets are gone. So dont ask.


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## Gman67 (Aug 19, 2021)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


Watch Superpumped. He who has the most money makes the laws. That's just how it is.


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## SSpringDriver (Aug 30, 2016)

They're an technology company, not transportation.


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## tkman (Apr 13, 2020)

MikeB421 said:


> ''' I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. ...


I've been wondering if a barter, auction type service may work. A customer indicates what they are willing to pay for the delivery, A restaurant indicates what it is willing to pay for an order, and drivers bid/accept orders based on what they are willing to accept. The delivery app service supplier would charge a fixed rate for $5 for a delivery. The delivery app could indicate an average rate to teh customer for they type of restaurant and distance that generally results in an accepted delivery. The resto pays the app service fee, and the customer pays for the delivery charge. The customer would see a price for food from the restaurant, and a separate line item for a buyer to indicate what they are willing to pay for delivery. I would suggest the minimum should be $5. If the distance is long and the customer does not adjust what they are willing to pay, drivers can turn down the orders and/or the customer raises the fee until a driver accepts. Drivers would be able to enter parameters for desired deliveries - Minimum $1 per mile, within a certain region, exclude certain restaurants, mamimum waiting time at a resto. With time customers would know what they need to pay to get a delivery to happen. Drivers would have a way to better control teh types of deliveries and what they are paid , restaurants would pay a low flat fee and the app service would get a low flat fee for their coordination in this. What I find really frustrating is the lack of information made available to a driver. Uber is bad for trying to manipulate the display to get a driver to accept crappy deliveries. For example once a delivery is in progress and the driver is prompted for a new delivery the map does not show the proposed new delivery. You do see a pickup resto, a distance, and delivery street, however it is usually not enough information to make a quick one second decision based on a drivers preferences. Of course if a driver just accepts anything this works fine. 
As well if prompted for a delivery that involves two orders Uber seems to show the better order and hides the poorer one. I accept fewer and fewer orders while a current delivery is under way, and I am getting very comfortable with cancelling an order once I have accepted it and find out what the order involves.


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## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> *Question: I don't understand how Uber can get away with operating the way they operate
> 
> Answer: Because most drivers protest poor treatment by Uber.......by accepting the next offer!*


Yep.


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## comitatus1 (Mar 22, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I just said it's not even a job
> Not delusional about what I am
> or what this work is
> I'm just a guy with a car
> ...


And you should get a real job.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

comitatus1 said:


> And you should get a real job.


Real jobs dont pay like this 








Unless you wanna hire me
match the pay and give me benefits 
I'm fine right where I am 😊


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Real jobs dont pay like this
> View attachment 661838
> 
> Unless you wanna hire me
> ...


seems like you’re doing well, unless you’re working the equivalent of 2 full time jobs for this money. Many will post big numbers, but not the hours it took to make it. If you’re doing this in 40 hours, that’s great. In 80 hours, not so great.


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## Be Right There (9 mo ago)

Take it from someone who has worked "real jobs" for 30 years. They're grossly overrated, to the point where I shudder at the thought of ever becoming someone else's W-2 b*tch slave again.

As to 25/7's earnings, I know many people who work 80 hour weeks but make significantly less per week, as they're trapped in the corporate salaried/exempt scam.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

UberPro1969 said:


> seems like you’re doing well, unless you’re working the equivalent of 2 full time jobs for this money. Many will post big numbers, but not the hours it took to make it. If you’re doing this in 40 hours, that’s great. In 80 hours, not so great.


I dont know many people that make 
$70 an hour 40 hours a week do you ??


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I dont know many people that make
> $70 an hour 40 hours a week do you ??


If you pick up passengers on the Northside, downtown, or in gated communities in The Burbs, then I'm sure you've met quite a few of them.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I dont know many people that make
> $70 an hour 40 hours a week do you ??


But it’s not $70. You’re forgetting expenses, especially sky high gas prices. Unless the OP has a hybrid he paid a lot for gas in almost 80 hours.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

The only way to stop these companies is Federal Regulation that they cant skirt. Its why I believe in Federal Rideshare Transparency and Safety Act. or FRTSA for short. The basis is the split 80/20 and minimum set on rides under one mile being 7.50.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Schmanthony said:


> If you pick up passengers on the Northside, downtown, or in gated communities in The Burbs, then I'm sure you've met quite a few of them.


Obviously there are people that make more than $150k a year but this is a blue collar drivers forum
I personally have a brother in law that's a partner in a law firm that makes more. The point is I make more than a police detective, high school principal or a union electrician. For every one that makes more theres probably 20 that make less. I'm very happy with the job and will continue to rake in the cash till I'm deactivated. I'm a high school educated guy with a car. Unfortunately everyone isnt a chiropractor


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

UberPro1969 said:


> But it’s not $70. You’re forgetting expenses, especially sky high gas prices. Unless the OP has a hybrid he paid a lot for gas in almost 80 hours.


I asked you how many people do you personally know that make more $70 an hour 40 hours a week.
I realise I have to pay for my tools.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I asked you how many people do you personally know that make more $70 an hour 40 hours a week.
> I realise I have to pay for my tools.


To answer your question I live with a person that makes that much, my wife. And she doesn’t provide any tools, with the exception of a car to transport her to work 1-2 days a week, the others are from home. The average car needs $7-10 an hour to run, more if it’s mot fuel efficient. The point I was trying to make was the person that worked almost 80 hours is not doing as great as some would believe, but at 40 hours, even with the skyrocketing cost to do business it would be great. When I was a limo driver working for a black car company, in 80 hours I would make $2100, and had zero expenses as the company provided everything. I rarely worked that long, but if they needed coverage I was the man. I typically worked 60 hours, made $1400, plus 3 weeks paid time off, and all the other employee benefits. Don’t get me wrong, I like rideshare, and I’ve accepted that there trade offs, and personally I’m currently willing to accept this, even though the rate card is a joke.

Sorry for the long rant


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

UberPro1969 said:


> To answer your question I live with a person that makes that much, my wife. And she doesn’t provide any tools, with the exception of a car to transport her to work 1-2 days a week, the others are from home. The average car needs $7-10 an hour to run, more if it’s mot fuel efficient. The point I was trying to make was the person that worked almost 80 hours is not doing as great as some would believe, but at 40 hours, even with the skyrocketing cost to do business it would be great. When I was a limo driver working for a black car company, in 80 hours I would make $2100, and had zero expenses as the company provided everything. I rarely worked that long, but if they needed coverage I was the man. I typically worked 60 hours, made $1400, plus 3 weeks paid time off, and all the other employee benefits. Don’t get me wrong, I like rideshare, and I’ve accepted that there trade offs, and personally I’m currently willing to accept this, even though the rate card is a joke.
> 
> Sorry for the long rant


I really like doing it and
rarely complain about money.
Ideally I would like to make the 
same money having sex with 2 
different supermodels everyday
35-40 an hour before expenses 
for 80 hours a week pays me way 
more money than I could otherwise make
I could work 1/2 as much but
That would cut far too deeply into my 
Cocaine and hooker budget 😉


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

UberPro1969 said:


> seems like you’re doing well, unless you’re working the equivalent of 2 full time jobs for this money. Many will post big numbers, but not the hours it took to make it. If you’re doing this in 40 hours, that’s great. In 80 hours, not so great.


Even if he's doing it in 60-70 still impressive. Mostly tax free.


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## comitatus1 (Mar 22, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Real jobs dont pay like this
> View attachment 661838
> 
> Unless you wanna hire me
> ...


Bullshit.


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## ZippityDoDa (9 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Are you suggesting a strike?



I was thinking that just yesterday. We should all grab a different job for a month and shake it up. Tired of them not respecting drivers. Tired of the occasional pax that lets you know by their words and behavior they don’t respect you! )especially now that the pandemic is over)

It’s really Incredible. A person needs someone to drive them from point A to point B in that driver’s 3500 lb machine but the person then frowns on you for doing that. Twice I’ve just thrown them back out and told them to go rent a car or get a DUI( I don’t want “their” $7! Ha ha ha. 

The last yahoo I picked up at a hotel downtown and 4 (good sized) people (all around mid 30s) get in back and one guy in front. I told them no, no ride, cuz not illegally going down the road even 1 mile with 4 people in a 3 person backseat. The guy starts thumbing through his 20’s like I’m some desperate good for nothing ready to break any law for an extra tip. Idiot… I will not. They got pissed I didn’t fall for that (how foolish for people to order a UberX rather than xl in the first place). They jump out throwing their tantrum in front of the hotel. And who do their attendants talk to? Me! They come to “me” as if I caused “their” hotel guests problems. Telling me to move on or they’ll call the police or get their security. I told them please do. Then they said they weren’t going to do what I told them. What a circus. 

Point is…. No one respects you for Uber driving in your 3500 lb machine “they” requested you to do, pay you only a few bucks, and you actually even have their life in your hands with your 3500 lb machine. Which one is the biggest fool???? (I’d say the pax when they don’t have any respect)

We drivers actually have a lot more control “if we use it” and throw people out that show disrespect. Just tell Uber “bad rider behavior” because it is!


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


I don't understand how Uber can get away with operating the way they operate.

Because it's RIDESHARE.

Rideshare is designed to leverage the general public at large to use their spare time and space to take others along with them in a direction the driver was already going.

So since your only going one way, you get paid only one way, not to return.

Don't like it, don't do it because even at 1.40 a mile and a whopping 85,000 miles a year, your still only going to earn a measly $15,000.

That's the job, it's part time, it's on your schedule, feelings etc. You don't do it for a living, many tried and failed because it was designed to fail those who tried.

Get it?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

They might be making $70 an hour. 

But they dont get to mingle with prostitutes, escorts, strippers, mentally questionable, eccentric people, ambulatory patients, smelly people, drug scented people, grocery store people, drunks, Karens, and the ne'er-do-well. 

That right there is almost priceless.


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## 4848 (May 16, 2019)

I don't understand how anyone cannot understand what Uber is all about!


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> I don't understand how Uber can get away with operating the way they operate.
> 
> Because it's RIDESHARE.
> 
> ...


You seem to be really confused here.
85k ×1.40= $119000
And yet you are claiming you only made $15k
#1 why the hell would you do that
#2 where the hell did all that money go?
It seems you are trying to tell us
your operating costs were over $100,000?
Like many of the things you say
You have really bad numbers and
They just dont add up....


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Real jobs dont pay like this
> View attachment 661838
> 
> Unless you wanna hire me
> ...


Those are some nice numbers, really nice and I thought I did well. Shit I only topped 3k once!

Must be NYC and a Black or XL, likely getting +$2 a mile or more.

Either that or your good at Photoshop 😁


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> You seem to be really confused here.
> 85k ×1.40= $119000
> And yet you are claiming you only made $15k
> #1 why the hell would you do that
> ...


85k miles includes deadhead and other miles, including while app is on but no trip, not all got $1.40 mile.

If.you don't know this already, correctly claiming your real miles, then your doing it wrong or not ridesharing.

Combined with that overly high weekly numbers you posted, all that money and no good tax attorney to tell you how to claim your miles and keep your money? Hmmm 🤔

It's think it's you that don't add up.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Those are some nice numbers, really nice and I thought I did well. Shit I only topped 3k once!
> 
> Must be NYC and a Black or XL, likely getting +$2 a mile or more.
> 
> Either that or your good at Photoshop 😁


That's how much I make every week and if your claims about miles are true you
would be making that much money too
As I have suspected since you got on here
you are just a full of crap whiner
All those deadhead miles are deductable against income and are actually making you money
You still havent explained
how you spent $100000 on costs
That denial of my income and the claim 
of photoshop is exactly what 
I would have expected from you
I dont need a tax attorney just an accountant


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> As I have suspected since you got on here
> you are just a full of crap whiner


QFT! OTN is demonstrably as clueless as they can get.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Either that or your good at Photoshop


How are my skills? Remember to run the images through your ArtifactSeeker1000 software.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> How are my skills? Remember to run the images through your ArtifactSeeker1000 software.


Very good Herr Doktor, just the right shade of blue sky. Glass grade, your a genius. 😁


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## Noentry (11 mo ago)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


What qualifies yourself as a professional driver.

Did you take a qualification on being the best.

Most people joining Uber today will know what they are letting themselves in for.
Those that joined Uber in the beginning maybe have a complaint about Uber, particularly being misled and lied to regarding earnings and job description.
Uber we’re heavily fined for misleading drivers earnings.


----------



## ciko (10 mo ago)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


I also dont understand how they can just reduce our shares just because we are independent contractors. Why they cant reduce for employees but they can for independent contractor. Why the government does not protect the independent contractors


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> You're absolutely correct, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with doing this to ANYBODY.
> 
> Whenever questions such as yours get asked, the usual bullshit responses follow, such as "most drivers show their disgust at being exploited by accepting the next offer". FALSE.
> 
> ...


Did you know that a 97% turnover rate for PT drivers is actually pretty good? Most retailers would die for this number. I was in retail management most of my life and the industry standard was roughly 150% a year for PT employees. That number held steady during my entire 30 year career. 
What's more interesting is that FT retail turnover (excluding management) hovers around 100% per year.
So I'm pretty sure Dara isn't concerned at all with the 97% turnover at all. 
While retail isn't rideshare, it is a service based workforce. I'm pretty sure most service based workforces such as retail, hospitality, food service, etc all face turnover issues higher than Uber if your 97% is a correct number. 
Just some perspective...

Side note- I'm now retired driving rideshare on a PT basis, picking my spots to mainly stay active and busy. I enjoy the pax interactions. I feel for the grinders trying to make a living on this.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

MikeB421 said:


> Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that.





PTCGUY said:


> You need to stop looking at what Uber "takes". That should have no bearing upon driving. If the money you receive works for you then do it, if not then don't.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber.





Noentry said:


> What qualifies yourself as a professional driver.
> 
> Did you take a qualification on being the best.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Professional,
participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs.

The word professional does not dictate the level of competency within that field. It's simply just says you're not doing this in your basement on the weekends when you have spare time. That would be known as a hobbyist or enthusiast.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> Did you know that a 97% turnover rate for PT drivers is actually pretty good? Most retailers would die for this number. I was in retail management most of my life and the industry standard was roughly 150% a year for PT employees. That number held steady during my entire 30 year career.
> What's more interesting is that FT retail turnover (excluding management) hovers around 100% per year.
> So I'm pretty sure Dara isn't concerned at all with the 97% turnover at all.
> While retail isn't rideshare, it is a service based workforce. I'm pretty sure most service based workforces such as retail, hospitality, food service, etc all face turnover issues higher than Uber if your 97% is a correct number.
> ...


First of all I've always suspected that the commonly used 97% figure is lower than it actually is. The fact that Uber's never denied the 97% figure makes me suspect it even more.

Look at the how low you're setting the bar as a basis of comparison... retail employment, which has traditionally been an entry-level low-paying occupation. It's a common "first job". You really want to set the comparison bar that low? While you're at it you should also include working in a fish-packing plant. That occupation probably also has skyhigh turnover as well.

In theory rideshare and other gig work has a lot going for it. Flexible hours, freedom to work as little or as much as you want, no commitment to an employer, being your own boss, running your own business, low barrier to entry, good pay, etc. Those features should have had lots of appeal to most people, BUT....

Gig workers discovered that the promises of gig work turned out to be LIES.


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> First of all I've always suspected that the commonly used 97% figure is lower than it actually is. The fact that Uber's never denied the 97% figure makes me suspect it even more.
> 
> Look at the how low you're setting the bar as a basis of comparison... retail employment, which has traditionally been an entry-level low-paying occupation. It's a common "first job". You really want to set the comparison bar that low? While you're at it you should also include working in a fish-packing plant. That occupation probably also has skyhigh turnover as well.
> 
> ...


So where on the food chain would you put rideshare? Is rideshare not a service based gig? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your mindset.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> So where on the food chain would you put rideshare? Is rideshare not a service based gig? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your mindset.


Given the fact that working whenever you want has such a strong allure for most people, a 100% turnover rate is a disgrace. If drivers were paid a reasonable wage and treated with respect the turnover rate would be much lower.


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## solonayton (7 d ago)

MikeB421 said:


> I'm suggesting we all need to unite in a class action lawsuit and or past new proposition to make sure that Uber cannot use manipulation tactics and or justify our pay if they are truly not our employer. Us independent contractors need to exercise our independent contractor rights. Proposition 22 was just a bullshit proposition to make sure that Uber keeps their position as a non employer while being able to delegate us like we are their employees. I don't understand why anybody even voted yes for that with the false promises. We need to do a way of prop 22 and have a new proposition for fair independent contractors rights towards any app based company. I know I've heard I don't like it and then I should get a new job but know what they shouldn't be doing this to anybody.



No solidarity, that's how they're getting over. All the people that say stop driving for them are Uber "Bots!" Uber knows what they're doing and if they were just a 'Gig Job' they would shave you signing all of those contracts. Uber is no different than any other Tech company, there's no production so they're buy up and/or squeeze out other areas of competition. Uber knew from the beginning people were going to quit the normal 9-5 to work for them by saying "Your, your own Boss and work when you want!" And paying people all that money in the beginning was bait on the line, Uber will accet a Class Action Lawsuit, only the corrupt Lawyers (Their friends) will get paid..


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Given the fact that working whenever you want has such a strong allure for most people, a 100% turnover rate is a disgrace. If drivers were paid a reasonable wage and treated with respect the turnover rate would be much lower.


I wholeheartedly agree with your statements.
But you forgot to answer my question.
If rideshare isn’t comparable to retail or other service sector jobs, what is it comparable to and where should we be setting the bar?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with your statements.
> But you forgot to answer my question.
> If rideshare isn’t comparable to retail or other service sector jobs, what is it comparable to and where should we be setting the bar?


Lots of occupations are services. Medicine, auto repair, interior decorating, etc, etc. You compared it to retail. Gig work that lives up to its promise has a lot more appeal than retail and thus should have a much lower turnover rate than retail.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Lots of occupations are services. Medicine, auto repair, interior decorating, etc, etc. You compared it to retail. Gig work that lives up to its promise has a lot more appeal than retail and thus should have a much lower turnover rate than retail.


So would this be a good time to ask to see if a prostitute is gig, gag, or is it by the piece work?


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Lots of occupations are services. Medicine, auto repair, interior decorating, etc, etc. You compared it to retail. Gig work that lives up to its promise has a lot more appeal than retail and thus should have a much lower turnover rate than retail.


I compared rideshare to unskilled labor such as retail and other unskilled service workers.
If I understand your comments you are comparing rideshare to skilled labor such as medicine, etc. 
gotcha. 
that’s a stretch, but at least I now know your mindset.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> I compared rideshare to unskilled labor such as retail and other unskilled service workers.
> If I understand your comments you are comparing rideshare to skilled labor such as medicine, etc.
> gotcha.
> that’s a stretch, but at least I now know your mindset.



Save the strawman garbage. You know damn well I'm not comparing rideshare to medicine, so skip that disingenuous line of argument.The term "unskilled" was not in your previous post. You said "service sector" which encompasses retail, hairdressing, teaching, medicine, etc. Look up the definition of service sector.

You're the one who brought comparison into this topic when you said retail has high turnover. I say retail and rideshare are different and rideshare should have a much lower turnover rate. Now you've lost my respect with your condescending jerk routine of being an alleged mind-reader. I'm done with this argument.


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Save the strawman garbage. You know damn well I'm not comparing rideshare to medicine, so skip that disingenuous line of argument.The term "unskilled" was not in your previous post. You said "service sector" which encompasses retail, hairdressing, teaching, medicine, etc. Look up the definition of service sector.
> 
> You're the one who brought comparison into this topic when you said retail has high turnover. I say retail and rideshare are different and rideshare should have a much lower turnover rate. Now you've lost my respect with your condescending jerk routine of being an alleged mind-reader. I'm done with this argument.


Gig work is exactly like retail as it’s unskilled labor. Therefore the turnover numbers are comparable. I get it, you’d like gig work to pay like union skilled labor.
it’s nice to dream I guess.


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## Stickshiftpsycho (Aug 21, 2021)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


Sadly I see drivers take 2 dollar profit uber eats deliveries everyday my man. It's really sad. Uber will always have their "slow" drivers. It's as nice as I can put it. Us veterans help each other out. Set your minimums for money and for passenger stars. I don't take anyone who is below 4.85 I believe or maybe 4.83 I have it set to. Just be smart and you'll do great.habe a good attitude get out carry their bags. A strategy that works for me I make them put their bags in the trunk on arrival but when I drop them off I hustle out and give them their bags. It's like a total mindf*** bc they were prilly thinking what a jerk I am but now they almost feel guilty in their minds lol. I get tipped always from these kinds. I'm rambling now have a good day.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

MikeB421 said:


> I've been a professional driver for a long time before Uber. Unfortunately over the years Uber has taken the clientele away because of how cheap they are. So if you can't beat them join them. But I don't get is how Uber which is supposed to be a middle man doing business with an independent contractor which is all of us drivers is allowed to tell us how much money we're allowed to make per mile and permitted and all the logistics of our income. I don't recall signing a contract stating I'm willing to work for 75 cents a mile in San Bernardino county for example 60 cents in LA county for example especially when LA county is more expensive than San Bernardino county. You should be getting paid more. And then don't get me started about how much they pay us for wait time. It's bullshit money. Wait time equates to about $7 an hour that's not even minimum wage. Their pay structure is totally ****ed up. A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that. A middle Mansion never get paid more than the independent contractor. You literally lose money sitting in traffic besides them not paying you enough per mile. I did a ride one time which without traffic it should take an hour and a half and I would have gotten paid probably about $100. But with traffic it took me 4 hours to complete and I only got paid about $120. I also don't understand how prop 22 was passed guaranteeing us more money and yet Uber did implement the more money portion of it for a short while before they took it back out of their app because they were losing too much money from people canceling. How are they able to take that out when prop 22 became law that they fought so hard to get!? Why isn't the government stepping in!? Am I wrong!?
> And on another note we are independent contractors. I don't understand why nobody else is understanding this. We should be negotiating how much we want to get paid per mile & per minute traffic delay and stuff like pick up fee instead of starting at $0 per pickup. Uber's pay structure is ****ed up for the driver. The structure is made so they will always make money at the driver's expense. They also use manipulation tactics like grading you on your acceptance rating and punishing you for denying five orders for example. This is business, it should be transparent. We are business associates working towards a common goal. But yet we're being graded and punished like we work for them like they are our employer yet we aren't. I feel like we all need to come together as independent contractors and either Sue Uber or pass a new proposition that no app based companies that are not our employer are not allowed to tell us how much we're able to make since they're a middleman and aren't allowed to use manipulation tactics. This is business and it should be transparent. When it comes down to the pay scale we should be getting paid per mileage and time for traffic delay with a pickup charge while Uber charges a separate flate rate fee to the customer as a middleman charge. That's how it's supposed to work. That's how it's always worked. Us drivers are getting shafted by Uber and we need to stand up and change that to make it fair for us!


It’s really simple every mayor and Governor in major markets are bought and paid for. California the most expensive place to live in the USA has the cheapest pay per income capita and cost of living we also have the most liberal back stabbing political leaders that they care for the people but do nothing for us. They want cheap labor while they live the elitist lives.


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2021)

Bribes.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

MikeB421 said:


> A lot of orders Uber gets paid more than you. I don't know if people actually look at that.





Heisenburger said:


> Glad I wasn't compensated a percentage (even 100%!) of what Uber charged the riders for these 3 trips!


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2021)

I mean look at this r'tarded promotion price.... LMAO 🤣 
What are we ? Driving like an people from Bangladesh/ India earnings but have to live with USA cost of Living ?? 
Krazy. Insane , lunatic... UBER IS TILTED SCAM.


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