# We really are working for nothing



## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX

$2.75 Drop
$2.20 Each mile
$36.00 Per hour
Rideshare is half that.

Ten mile, 20 minute drive on rideshare is $20.00, in a taxi $36.25 (plus tip?)


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## OCX DRIVER (Jun 9, 2014)

osii said:


> I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX
> 
> $2.75 Drop
> $2.20 Each mile
> ...


You're lucky it's worse in the LA area we are 60% cheaper with no tip


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Boston Taxi
$2.60 drop
$2.80 per mile
$28.00 per hour.

Boston UberX
$2.00 drop
$1.20 per mile
$12.60 per hour


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## caspiy257 (Aug 19, 2014)

taxi meter does not consider both time and distance. At this rate at a speed of less than 16 mph is considered to be the only time, more than 16 mph- distance. $ 36 per hour - minimum. LA taxi rate $ 2.70 per mile and about $ 30 ph. Speed less than 11mph - is considered to be the only time, more than 11mph - distance


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

maybe the top Uber honchos' main headquarter is in Colorado...
where I hear smoking funny stuff is now legal...
for the life of me I can't believe these guys are so stupid (with their rate decisions)...
how is getting rid of their best & most experienced drivers (and replacing them with crappy, inexperienced ones) is in their corporate interest is just beyond me...


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

What do you expect?

You use your own car.

You have no proper Hire & Reward Insurance.

In the UK all Uber drivers are licensed and Insured for Hire&Reward.

Their cars are inspected and licensed and subject to two MOTs a year in London.

If you want paid Taxi rates.

Then become a Taxi driver.

So many of the new entrants to the passenger transprort trade via Apps have no idea how the industry works.

Having to use GPS all the time is a sign of unprofessionalism.

But so many working for Uber think that is the norm.

By all means use a Map or even Waze to avoid congestion.

This is not a hobby.

The expences are too high.

If you do 20hrs a week on Uber you will lose money in all likelyhood.

Why can so few see this.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> maybe the top Uber honchos' main headquarter is in Colorado...
> where I hear smoking funny stuff is now legal...
> for the life of me I can't believe these guys are so stupid (with their rate decisions)...
> how is getting rid of their best & most experienced drivers (and replacing them with crappy, inexperienced ones) is in their corporate interest is just beyond me...


Their ultimate goal is to take over the taxi industry.
As the taxi industry shrinks more and more cab drivers will move over to Uber.
Eventually the majority of Uber drivers will be ex-cab drivers.
We are just being used (and paid well at the beginning) to start to release cab drivers
from their former employers.


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## Samhain13 (Aug 24, 2014)

The one thing I find fascinating is the utter reliance on the GPS, and this goes for just normal everyday drivers as well. If you're driving as a job, the most important thing you should have is CITY-KNOWLEDGE!!! If you don't, you're hurting no one but yourself. Having someone who is not just unfamiliar with the city they're driving in but can't follow simple street signs scares the crap out of me.

I definitely agree with Lux, if you plan on driving part-time, you're not going to make a decent wage. Period.


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

osii said:


> I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX
> 
> $2.75 Drop
> $2.20 Each mile
> ...


You are right and discount cab is a bit higher even.

Plus tip


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## Tommyo (Aug 18, 2014)

Ubers rent the device - cabbies rent the car - are you properly accounting for that simple fact? I have observed numerous taxi commission meetings in SF over the last 25 years where cabbies constantly moan and groan about their "gate".


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

SD taxi $3.25 / mile uber $1.25


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## ontheroad (Aug 31, 2014)

Your gps statement may be true for the city (especially with traffic) however passenges too rely on the gps because it gives them reassurance that you are going the right way and not taking them for a ride..no pun intended!!!


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

Tommyo said:


> Ubers rent the device - cabbies rent the car - are you properly accounting for that simple fact? I have observed numerous taxi commission meetings in SF over the last 25 years where cabbies constantly moan and groan about their "gate".


yes, they pay out $100 a day on average for a taxi, but at those rates, they make it back in three fares.


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

osii said:


> yes, they pay out $100 a day on average for a taxi, but at those rates, they make it back in three fares.


My "gate" for 48 hours is around 300 ... I spend about 180 gas and 30 misc. During that time and will generally gross 1000-1100 for a 500-600 profit.

The much higher fare and good tips (I am awesome) do allow for that consistent high gross. With uber a gross like that requires a ton of luck and the risk of low rating pukers in your personal car


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

osii said:


> yes, they pay out $100 a day on average for a taxi, but at those rates, they make it back in three fares.


Yea....the cabbies I talk to are paying about $150.00 a day...$3000.00 a month. That May or may not include bribes depending on who you talk to. That's a hell of a gate rape fee.

As for making that back in 3 rides...65% drop in cab rides in SF alone. Some cab companies have 40% of their fleet sitting idle so they claim.

As for GPS being unprofessional. People in SF seem to be ok with it and guess what? They use it themselves while you are driving. Nothing more confident inspiring than knowing your gps is giving the exact same directions as their gps. Rider like that.

The biggest challenge driving in SF? Construction.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Would you eat at a Restaurent whose Head Chef had to follow a recipe.

Maybe consumers in the US are easily pleased.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Would you eat at a Restaurent whose Head Chef had to follow a recipe.
> 
> Maybe consumers in the US are easily pleased.


would you pay a head chef what uber pays drivers? VBA = Very bad Analogy


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

The proper analogy would be . . . . would you expect a line cook to follow a recipe? And the answer is Hell Yes!


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

What I love is when the rider makes us wait ten or fifteen minutes and then gets antsy when it takes a minute to load in the destination.


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## toi (Sep 8, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> What do you expect?
> 
> You use your own car.
> 
> ...


well put


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Would you eat at a Restaurent whose Head Chef had to follow a recipe.
> 
> Maybe consumers in the US are easily pleased.


I don't care if he follows a recipe or not.

I am paying him to make me a good meal. The end result is what I am after.


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## Kaz (Sep 16, 2014)

osii said:


> I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX
> 
> $2.75 Drop
> $2.20 Each mile
> ...


How long have you been working for UBER in Phx? I am new and in the Phx area too. I worked my first weekend, SURGE pricing of course for some of it, did about 9 hours and netted 225.00 and it was a little slow. Most UBER drivers here are doing pretty well, even with the gas and wear and tear on your vehicle. I would think it's going to be getting busier and busier with the tourism and holidays coming up. If you think you are working for nothing, then why not quit?


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Samhain13 said:


> I definitely agree with Lux, if you plan on driving part-time, you're not going to make a decent wage. Period.





UberLuxbod said:


> If you do 20hrs a week on Uber you will lose money in all likelyhood.


I see the opposite, ie driving full time is losing money. Driving under 20 hours a week, and _only_ driving when there's surge significantly increases your profit margin. Even with these new low rates, I can still make $500 to $600 a week in 20 hours that way. That's half of what I was making last year in those same hours though.

Driving full time may gross you more, but you're doing a lot more work, and your expenses are a lot higher. Your hourly average will be lower, and your profit margin will be as well. Not to mention significantly more vehicle wear. As far as I'm concerned, anytime my hourly gross average drops below $30 that means I'm doing something wrong.


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Yea....the cabbies I talk to are paying about $150.00 a day...$3000.00 a month. That May or may not include bribes depending on who you talk to. That's a hell of a gate rape fee.
> 
> As for making that back in 3 rides...65% drop in cab rides in SF alone. Some cab companies have 40% of their fleet sitting idle so they claim.
> 
> ...


Yes, some people here claim the "gate" (lease+fees) here is too high, but I don't worry about it. My concern is how much I go home with.

If they are getting 1200 per month (8 24hr leases) from me that's fine as long as I walk with 2200 for those 8 days I still win. It's a win-win.

I will admit though, such a high entry price sets the average novice or ****** at a big disadvantage.


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## Sheldon (Aug 1, 2014)

OCX DRIVER said:


> You're lucky it's worse in the LA area we are 60% cheaper with no tip


As an LA driver, I will say that so long as you drive efficiently, unless you have an unlucky incident or expense encounter, it's still marginally worth driving, but fare rates need to go up soon especially with the new rumored gas tax coming. I drive a non-hybrid mid-size, the way rates are in LA it's basically a situation where all it takes is one accident, a few tickets, a catastrophic mechanical failure IE transmission, and your entire earnings for the last few months are harmed. My car gets incredible wear on LA streets so I strictly maintain it, including transmission fluid/filter service that my car make "doesn't recommend" despite its necessity. These things are all tax deductible and I would think one would want to opt to use them instead of that flat milage thing for taxes yes?

I think rates are actually at a trough and should nudge up slightly now that we have so many riders on board. UberX certainly realizes I'm sure that rider loyalty depends on the quality of the vehicles and drivers on the road too, so I'm not totally pessimistic about all of this. I'm just saying nobody was complaining about the higher LA rates in early 2014, it was the surges that my riders would complain of.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

If they raise the rates, they will cut commissions, bet on it!

Now that they see they can hire drivers exponentially, they will never raise what they pay us. They will determine the lowest cut that people will work for and it will stay there. 

My biggest issue with uber hiring is that it is a complete bait and switch. I think this is where some State AG is going to hammer uber.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

osii said:


> would you pay a head chef what uber pays drivers? VBA = Very bad Analogy


No.

As i never said what kind of restaurant.

Just a restaurant where you pay somebody to do their job.

But for the pedants on the forum.

Would you expect a line chef not to know how to cook an egg or how find the ingredients they needed without having to follow directions.

I T C F Y N


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

OldTownSean said:


> Yes, some people here claim the "gate" (lease+fees) here is too high, but I don't worry about it. My concern is how much I go home with.
> 
> If they are getting 1200 per month (8 24hr leases) from me that's fine as long as I walk with 2200 for those 8 days I still win. It's a win-win.
> 
> I will admit though, such a high entry price sets the average novice or ****** at a big disadvantage.


As long as it works for you that is all that matters.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> No.
> 
> As i never said what kind of restaurant.
> 
> ...


Comparing any kind of chef to a driver is just a bad analogy. A chef makes a few dishes and almost NEVER COMES FACE TO FACE with the end user. A driver is expected to know the name and location of every hotel, bar, strip joint, dorm room, swingers bar, restaurant, etc. in a town of 5 million people, placate the rider, find where they are going when they don't even know where they're going.

A better analogy is a waiter. No control over customers, no control over what they will order, babysit the customer, and is rated by arbitrary tipping system. But even a waiter doesn't work because they get a $2/hr. guaranty and have no money invested and run no personal financial risk when they work.

Using analogies is the surest sign of a weak argument


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

osii said:


> Comparing any kind of chef to a driver is just a bad analogy. A chef makes a few dishes and almost NEVER COMES FACE TO FACE with the end user. A driver is expected to know the name and location of every hotel, bar, strip joint, dorm room, swingers bar, restaurant, etc. in a town of 5 million people, placate the rider, find where they are going when they don't even know where they're going.
> 
> A better analogy is a waiter. No control over customers, no control over what they will order, babysit the customer, and is rated by arbitrary tipping system. But even a waiter doesn't work because they get a $2/hr. guaranty and have no money invested and run no personal financial risk when they work.
> 
> Using analogies is the surest sign of a weak argument


Your right.

I should just have said simply that any UberX who is over reliant on SatNav will have poor spatial awareness.

And they are likely overpaid for the little knowledge/skills they have brought to the table.

There.

Is that better.

W A W


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

osii said:


> Comparing any kind of chef to a driver is just a bad analogy. A chef makes a few dishes and almost NEVER COMES FACE TO FACE with the end user. A driver is expected to know the name and location of every hotel, bar, strip joint, dorm room, swingers bar, restaurant, etc. in a town of 5 million people, placate the rider, find where they are going when they don't even know where they're going.
> 
> A better analogy is a waiter. No control over customers, no control over what they will order, babysit the customer, and is rated by arbitrary tipping system. But even a waiter doesn't work because they get a $2/hr. guaranty and have no money invested and run no personal financial risk when they work.
> 
> Using analogies is the surest sign of a weak argument


Where is this that waitstaff gets 2 bucks an hour?

In CA its at least minimum wage before tips.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Where is this that waitstaff gets 2 bucks an hour?
> 
> In CA its at least minimum wage before tips.


In MA, the minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.63 per hour.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> In MA, the minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.63 per hour.


Damn! They want to raise the minimum to $15 an hr in SF.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Damn! They want to raise the minimum to $15 an hr in SF.


The recently raised the minimum wage for non-tipped employees to $9/hour starting 1-1-15.
http://www.mass.gov/lwd/labor-standards/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-faqs.html

Good luck trying to live here on a minimum wage job though... average 1 bedroom apartment in Boston is $2,000 a month.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> The recently raised the minimum wage for non-tipped employees to $9/hour starting 1-1-15.
> http://www.mass.gov/lwd/labor-standards/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-faqs.html
> 
> Good luck trying to live here on a minimum wage job though... average 1 bedroom apartment in Boston is $2,000 a month.


Yea..rents suck it here too.

Took a woman to the airport. She was moving to Portland, Oregon. She was paying $1500.00 a mo for a studio apt about the size of my living room and kitchen. Her landlord was happy because he had people lined up people wanting it for $2800.00 a mo.

Unbelievable.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Yea..rents suck it here too.
> 
> Took a woman to the airport. She was moving to Portland, Oregon. She was paying $1500.00 a mo for a studio apt about the size of my living room and kitchen. Her landlord was happy because he had people lined up people wanting it for $2800.00 a mo.
> 
> Unbelievable.


Yeah, if you rule out the "cheap" apartments (pretty much anything under $1,800) in the high crime areas, the average rent goes way up.


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## Sheldon (Aug 1, 2014)

osii said:


> If they raise the rates, they will cut commissions, bet on it!
> 
> Now that they see they can hire drivers exponentially, they will never raise what they pay us. They will determine the lowest cut that people will work for and it will stay there.
> 
> My biggest issue with uber hiring is that it is a complete bait and switch. I think this is where some State AG is going to hammer uber.


But uber doesn't pay us anything. the riders do. If the rates go up 10 per cent, then uber's 20 per cent cut will be 10 per cent larger as well.

What's going on here isn't exactly like a McDonald's wage situation here, it's a price competition to get the most riders. Once that eases up then they can slowly raise them again to keep car driver quality up


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

ok, so I usually drive only weekends. I drove tonight and in Hollywood it is massively busy. the prices were extremely low. was there another pay cut or is it just Thursday night? we have a lot of events on Thursday threre are people on every corner waiting for uber cars and its crazy you can barely budge. womnder why the fares were 4 dollars and such on such a night?


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

the Hollywood bowl let out with 3 bands playing and I drove 3 people for 20 minutes and it was 9 dollars. is that normal?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osii said:


> If they raise the rates, they will cut commissions, bet on it!
> 
> Now that they see they can hire drivers exponentially, they will never raise what they pay us. They will determine the lowest cut that people will work for and it will stay there.
> 
> My biggest issue with uber hiring is that it is a complete bait and switch. I think this is where some State AG is going to hammer uber.


Definitely bait and switch advertising. I received a rate "you will receive" statement from them (after clearing their system to drive) that stated $1.57 mile and $20 per minute. Actual pay rate was $1.36 and $.16.

A substantial difference.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Your right.
> 
> I should just have said simply that any UberX who is over reliant on SatNav will have poor spatial awareness.
> 
> ...


I'd take a gps driver any day over a slow unresponsive non-available overpaid 'experienced' driver any day.

Prior to Uber you couldn't get a cab in the burbs to save your soul. And definitely not on a Friday or Saturday nite.


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

I heard 25 dollars per hour so I went for it. but work is better than nothing. the job market is brutal. 
im used to doing something very different but ive been humbled to the extreme. but I don't like having to play games with paychecks.


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

better than nothing? I was an independent contractor so I cant ewven get unemployment. so im very gratefuol for this. although it seems pretty gamey.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

moniker said:


> I heard 25 dollars per hour so I went for it. but work is better than nothing. the job market is brutal.
> im used to doing something very different but ive been humbled to the extreme. but I don't like having to play games with paychecks.


The reality of making a living with Uber means this:

Work 12-15 hour days. 
Work 7 days a week if you can.
Try to gross a minimum of $300 every day before considering stopping. $400-500 is obviously better.
Hustle only areas that consistently produce pax with minimum waiting.
Stay OUT of areas that only produce $4. rides because you are paying to give those people rides. $4 minus an $.80 Uber take minus the $1. safe ride fee = a $2.20 driver net. You can't possibly turn enough of these in an hour to make any money. I've tried very hard to do so and it's impossible. The hourly gross take on these kinds of rides is less than pathetic.


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

I used to something very different I wont say here but ill do my best this weekesnd im going to bust myas### sndd then if im paid properly well see what happens. I haven't been been pai properly to date.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

moniker said:


> I used to something very different I wont say here but ill do my best this weekesnd im going to bust myas### sndd then if im paid properly well see what happens. I haven't been been pai properly to date.


Eliminating down time is the hardest part. It's also the most fascinating part of the job. How to street hustle or beat the app and the other drivers for the best fares.

These are closely held secrets...


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Samhain13 said:


> The one thing I find fascinating is the utter reliance on the GPS, and this goes for just normal everyday drivers as well. If you're driving as a job, the most important thing you should have is CITY-KNOWLEDGE!!! If you don't, you're hurting no one but yourself. Having someone who is not just unfamiliar with the city they're driving in but can't follow simple street signs scares the crap out of me.
> 
> I definitely agree with Lux, if you plan on driving part-time, you're not going to make a decent wage. Period.


I think that this statement generalizes and shows ignorance of some of the areas that Uber operates in. Local knowledge is great, but some areas (such as LA/OC) are sprawling suburban areas where it is very difficult to know all addresses. In addition, drivers are sometimes taken on long trips to another county. It is naive to think that a driver in that situation should know that distant area as well.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> ...
> $4 minus an $.80 Uber take minus the $1. safe ride fee = a $2.20 driver net. ....


Just to be precise. Its ($4 - $1) *.8 = $2.40.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> I T C F Y N


I'm sorry...I T C F YN meaning?


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Sheldon said:


> As an LA driver, I will say that so long as you drive efficiently, unless you have an unlucky incident or expense encounter, it's still marginally worth driving, but fare rates need to go up soon especially with the new rumored gas tax coming. I drive a non-hybrid mid-size, the way rates are in LA it's basically a situation where all it takes is one accident, a few tickets, a catastrophic mechanical failure IE transmission, and your entire earnings for the last few months are harmed. My car gets incredible wear on LA streets so I strictly maintain it, including transmission fluid/filter service that my car make "doesn't recommend" despite its necessity. These things are all tax deductible and I would think one would want to opt to use them instead of that flat milage thing for taxes yes?
> 
> I think rates are actually at a trough and should nudge up slightly now that we have so many riders on board. UberX certainly realizes I'm sure that rider loyalty depends on the quality of the vehicles and drivers on the road too, so I'm not totally pessimistic about all of this. I'm just saying nobody was complaining about the higher LA rates in early 2014, it was the surges that my riders would complain of.


The problem with your statement is that we have no evidence of Uber ever raising UberX returns to drivers. The only time there is a minor bump to the customer is when they lock in lower fare rates for the drivers and at the same time they stop discounting passengers fares and post a lower "rack" rate. (That occurred on 8/21 in LA/OC, and more recently in SF) On that date the customer ends up with a small (5%-ish???) increase in what they are paying. The driver ends up with a >20% decrease in revenue.

Uber does not seem like it will increase the fares to the customer anytime soon. And, I would not bet on Uber decreasing their 20% commission rate either.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Hustle only areas that consistently produce pax with minimum waiting.
> Stay OUT of areas that only produce $4. rides


Impossible, these two go hand in hand.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> Impossible, these two go hand in hand.


Depends on where yer at. Some hotel complexes are not in the high traffic low end fare areas.


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## izzi3 (Sep 13, 2014)

osii said:


> What I love is when the rider makes us wait ten or fifteen minutes and then gets antsy when it takes a minute to load in the destination.


I see that too they kept me waiting and the moment I ask for the address because majority don't input it themselves I have to ask even if they make a face


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

John W said:


> San Diego going rate for a cab with USA Cab.. $1,700 per month..$56 per day


That is pretty good! Still more than I would pay but not bad. Do they have to bribe anyone?


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

izzi3 said:


> I see that too they kept me waiting and the moment I ask for the address because majority don't input it themselves I have to ask even if they make a face


I am finding more and more are inputting the destination. If i have any issues about it I just vox it into my gps and run a dual system. In those cases I usually go with the google nav.


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## izzi3 (Sep 13, 2014)

I was thinking of using my phone gps. The gps on my car can take a while putting letter by letter


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

osii said:


> I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX
> 
> $2.75 Drop
> $2.20 Each mile
> ...


In san diego, cabs are about $3 a mile.

Here's something to consider. In 1994, in San Diego, Yellow cab was $1.40 a mile. I drove for Yellow cab, but rarely booked close to $200 on a saturday night, $150 - $180 was average, and I was very busy. But, we didn't have GPS's so we had to use map books, and, we had to write the address down, given to us over a radio by a dispatcher, every trip, take cash and make change and take credit cards. Add those tasks up, and mean actually a suprisingly lot less time to drive. in those days, 15 - 20 trips was a good night. Today, I could literally do twice that many. Today, $1.25 per mile, on the same amount of hours as back then, often do about $370, sometimes $400, more than twice as much as I did then and the rate is about the same. But, I don't know how computerized today's cabbies are, or how efficient their system is. Also, this is San Diego central, which is one of the best cab towns I've ever worked ( there are freeways going everwhere, and a freeway is handy almost anywhere you are, unless deep in north county so I can pick up and drop like crazy, love this town -- and the weather ! ).


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> What do you expect?
> 
> You use your own car.
> 
> ...


I work 3 12 hour shifts --- 3 Saturdays per month, and net, after gas and Uber commission, about $200 per shift, at $1.25 /.20 cents. 2.10 drop.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

John W said:


> No of course not. Need to separate between the cab owners and the drivers... I was a driver... We were simply left alone to operate our business'.


And that's how it should be.

Up here that is a major complaint among cabbies.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Tommyo said:


> Ubers rent the device - cabbies rent the car - are you properly accounting for that simple fact? I have observed numerous taxi commission meetings in SF over the last 25 years where cabbies constantly moan and groan about their "gate".


In San Diego and L.A, taxi leases will kill you. You really have to work 15 hours a day six days a week if you have a 24/7 lease. The better way is to split a lease with another driver, where one driver works 12 hours, and the other the same. But, 12 hours in a car, six days a week, it gets old real quick.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> In San Diego and L.A, taxi leases will kill you. You really have to work 15 hours a day six days a week if you have a 24/7 lease. The better way is to split a lease with another driver, where one driver works 12 hours, and the other the same. But, 12 hours in a car, six days a week, it gets old real quick.


What is the gate there?


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

osii said:


> What I love is when the rider makes us wait ten or fifteen minutes and then gets antsy when it takes a minute to load in the destination.


I just make sure I always let them know I have not started the ride yet while entering the addy if they have one. I also ask if they would rather be the GPS if they know where they are going. I think most would rather give the directions. I give them props that they probably know the short cuts the GPS or I who does not live in the area know. I believe most lke that. Man, the more I hear about some of the Riders, I have been either incredibly lucky, or I am getting that "Senior Discount". 
And to the anti-GPS crowd, ROFL, GPS also can give updated traffic info that common knowledge is NOT going to account for.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

John W said:


> Well, things have changed considerably today, no radios all electronic dispatcher of course GPS. Direct hotel pickup. But when I was still driving I rarely depended on either the street pickups or even dispatch. As soon as I started to drive I began to collect and develop my own clients.. I serviced many of them for the ten years I drove... Only had around maybe 1,000 that kept me hugely busy. Which allowed me to clear at least $40k every year I drove.(that was after the expenses). But I wasn't your typical cab driver.. Had a dozen discounts I offered. Several other little "tricks" that I did.
> Have you ever wondered why a city limits the number of cabs operating? Well, when too many cabs are on the road the supply outnumbers the demand and everyone doesn't make any money. UBER simply keeps putting vehicles on the road with no regard of how it affects the drivers already there. With every car they put out there... Means that everyone else makes less money. UBER just reported that they will be doubling the number of cars on the road in the next few years. I believe that the market has now become saturated.. Meaning that drivers will make less money. Supply and demand.. It's not the supply that drives a company it's the demand.
> That's what I created in my taxi business and my business now.... I create the demand.... Than the supply... It must be in that order.
> If you're still in San Diego area, would appreciate the opportunity to buy you a cup of coffee. Thanks for your comment


And that is the way to control a business. Well done.


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## Ara (Sep 5, 2014)




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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

If they are charging such low fares to monopolize the industry, they could at least offer drivers some stock incentives.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

John W said:


> According to Business Week and Forbes UBER has no plans "right now" of having an IPO. Which means it's a privately held company no stock options will be offered.


Call it whatever you like, we should get some future remuneration for the shared sacrifices we are making now.


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## benites (Sep 14, 2014)

osii said:


> I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX
> 
> $2.75 Drop
> $2.20 Each mile
> ...


And we have better cars!


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## DCUberXGrrrl (Aug 25, 2014)

osii said:


> If they raise the rates, they will cut commissions, bet on it!
> 
> Now that they see they can hire drivers exponentially, they will never raise what they pay us. They will determine the lowest cut that people will work for and it will stay there.
> 
> My biggest issue with uber hiring is that it is a complete bait and switch. I think this is where some State AG is going to hammer uber.


Precisely. All you have to do is go on CraigsList or LinkedIn to see the kinds of outrageously fraudulent UberX driver earnings potential they are advertising to attract new drivers, and you quickly see they are on shaky ground -- not just with AGs but federally with the FTC and National Labor Relations Law dating to 1935: http://www.nlrb.gov/resources/national-labor-relations-act

New drivers are quickly disillusioned and (if they stick with it) they limit their driving only to part time higher-demand surge hours. I wager besides dealing with multiple local authorities and regulators, making patently false driver recruitment claims is going to land them and this whole business in trouble.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

osii said:


> I just checked the Yellow Cab rates in PHX
> 
> $2.75 Drop
> $2.20 Each mile
> ...


Tip? What's that?


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## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> The reality of making a living with Uber means this:
> 
> Work 12-15 hour days.
> Work 7 days a week if you can.
> ...


What you just posted in not sustainable, for the person and the vehicle, 14 hours a day every day driving will kill you, your car, and down the road an innocent pedestrian. This is not a desk job we are taking about here.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

cybertec69 said:


> What you just posted in not sustainable, for the person and the vehicle, 14 hours a day every day driving will kill you your car, and down the road an innocent pedestrian. This is not a desk job we are taking about here.


"Real work" in a long day is less than 1/2 the time on job.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> Their ultimate goal is to take over the taxi industry.
> As the taxi industry shrinks more and more cab drivers will move over to Uber.
> Eventually the majority of Uber drivers will be ex-cab drivers.
> We are just being used (and paid well at the beginning) to start to release cab drivers
> from their former employers.


I believe that's the case. They think they'll be the only game in town, a monopoly like the taxi industry was for decades, and they probably will. Then you'll see the rates go up, but right now they'll use everyone they can, have fares so low that people are definitely going to use them, and keep hiring as many drivers as possible. I haven't heard of any market were they've got enough drivers and aren't hiring. I had a guy about a week ago that splits his time between Louisville and Chicago. We were talking about Uber, and he was telling me how 'GREAT' it is. He said it took 7 minutes for me to get to him, but in Chicago he said he never waits over 1-2 minutes! He said he has a car in Chicago, but didn't even know the last time he drove it. When you have at least 1 driver sitting on every block in the city, it's gonna be a little hard (IMPOSSIBLE!) for drivers to make money.

Uber Wins + Riders Win = Drivers Lose

It's a -- Win * Win * Eff You.


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## SgtMurphy (Apr 28, 2014)

Samhain13 said:


> The one thing I find fascinating is the utter reliance on the GPS, and this goes for just normal everyday drivers as well. If you're driving as a job, the most important thing you should have is CITY-KNOWLEDGE!!! If you don't, you're hurting no one but yourself. Having someone who is not just unfamiliar with the city they're driving in but can't follow simple street signs scares the crap out of me.
> 
> I definitely agree with Lux, if you plan on driving part-time, you're not going to make a decent wage. Period.


Thing is, I have to drive for so long to make money that I like plugging in every address so I can simply think about what stupid SHIT the taxi or other moron is going to do 50 yards up...And you should see all the one-ways in Boston. I think this city is just different from a lot of places though. 
Why can't people from Cambridge tip? You know they're the type of people that write thesis papers on income inequality and the proletariat...Schmucky Hypocrits: Uber on! 
Please God give me a real job soon.



Just Some Guy said:


> Boston Taxi
> $2.60 drop
> $2.80 per mile
> $28.00 per hour.
> ...


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

benites said:


> And we have better cars!


Lol yellow cabs are trash. I looked at their fleet and walked away from leasing with them on day 1. Ugly ugly ugly


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

I get 2.95 drop and 2.25 a mile. No flat rate button but I can add a 10$ van charge. Normally I do flat rate customers 6 or 7 bucks for short runs in which case I will normally receive 8 or 10 bucks respectively.


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

John W said:


> Yeah some f the older yellows were bad.. They have started to get a whole brand new fleet here in San Diego with brand news Prius.. They are pretty..


Can't speak for San Diego but in Phoenix they are still sedan heavy with a few priuses. I looked at their vans and they were all poorly maintained , dirty, smelly trash. My clients would not approve.

Edit: main problem with a lot of these fleet vehicles is they aren't designed for certain purpose ... The same van I want to take my higher end customers out in on the weekend is the one some dirt bag is running ghetto medical voucher passengers in during the week. He isn't making money and doesn't care how clean it is and these people are tearing and stinking the vehicle up.

Companies should separate their fleet into a lower lease junky vehicle for dirt bags and a higher lease for a clean vehicle intended for better areas. Tough to manage yeah but damn it would be nice!


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

John W said:


> Vans are more difficult.. To find a good vehicle for that. The city actually requires every cab company to have at least one handicap van which can take wheelchairs.. City doesn't make it easy for them.. With all the environmental hoops to jump through..


Yeah I respect our guys who drive the handicap vans... I hate most of the rest lol.

Takes a special kind of person to deal with so many people's issues every day. I hope they are earning good. I have some senior passengers but most are in good spirits. I drive just a standard passenger van.


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## GannMan (Oct 7, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Would you eat at a Restaurent whose Head Chef had to follow a recipe.
> 
> Maybe consumers in the US are easily pleased.


OC clients say they don't care about anything as long as they're home safe. Usually it's when I don't bust out the GPS that they seem worried I'm gonna take them some other direction. Sometimes I do have to enter in the address since we have a lot of people heading home, they feel more secure.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> When you have at least 1 driver sitting on every block in the city, it's gonna be a little hard (IMPOSSIBLE!) for drivers to make money.
> 
> Uber Wins + Riders Win = Drivers Lose
> 
> It's a -- Win * Win * Eff You.


6+ on every block in Boston these days.


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## Badbeat (Oct 15, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> What do you expect?
> 
> You use your own car.
> 
> ...


I hear you!

But I also hear tech knocking my friend...and I think TECH will win...in the end!


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## John W (Sep 17, 2014)

Badbeat said:


> I hear you!
> 
> But I also hear tech knocking my friend...and I think TECH will win...in the end!


Yeah right.. Ever heard of Scour.com?


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Yea....the cabbies I talk to are paying about. 150.00 a day...$3000.00 a month. That May or may not include bribes depending on who you talk to. That's a hell of a gate rape fee.
> 
> As for making that back in 3 rides...65% drop in cab rides in SF alone. Some cab companies have 40% of their fleet sitting idle so they claim.
> 
> ...


Anyone that doesn't use everything at their disposal to do their job to the best of their ability, in my opinion, is unprofessional. I don't want an airline captain using just a compass and a sectional chart, and flying by the seat of their pants (which Uber seems to be doing).


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

You get what you pay for...


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

And Travis won't be getting any airline captain to do his bidding anytime soon...


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## SgtMurphy (Apr 28, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> 6+ on every block in Boston these days.


Volume problems? I seem to be lucky mostly...I do this crap at night though, days might be different. 
I love Southie. People say what they mean...and I am Irish so I feel at home. Irish 'Merican I mean


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## dogmatize (Oct 5, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> What do you expect?
> 
> You use your own car.
> 
> ...


It's a ****in hobby for me. Im retired and sometimes bored. I like the fa I can just quit a job and never have to look back. Especially the the jobs I walk off right in the middle of a project. The famous quotes from the employer "You Can't Do That! THE HELL I CAN'T! !


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## dogmatize (Oct 5, 2014)

osii said:


> What I love is when the rider makes us wait ten or fifteen minutes and then gets antsy when it takes a minute to load in the destination.


Why wait unless you're that desperate? 1 star isn't worth it.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

There is an astounding number of people on this thread that don't comprehend accounting or budgeting, and are trying to differentiate the expense structure of Uber vs Taxi to justify differences in customer rates. The truth is that every item that is paid for on the taxi side has to be present and accounted for on the Uber side.

Both pay for cars (taxis pay a gate, we pay for the actual car, registration and all)
Both pay for dispatch (taxis pay their company, Uber takes their commissions)
Both pay for risk (taxi companies hold insurance policies, Uber drivers have insurance, Uber's blanket policy, and anything else is direct risk in potential payouts)

There is no difference in the total expenses that apply to either side of this transportation comparison. Therefore, the rates passed on to the customer should ONLY be dependent on the level of service provided, i.e. how competent the driver is, and the level of vehicle quality. Any other argument as to why rates vary is invalid.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Having to use GPS all the time is a sign of unprofessionalism.


It doesn't matter how well you know a city, you won't know _every_ address, or often the best way to get from A to B. Even in EMS, we frequently use GPS. Garmin actually makes a model with a special setting for emergency vehicles that makes slight alterations to the algorithm used to calculate the best route. Although I often find that I'm traveling faster than the GPS can update my location, and it will sometimes tell you to turn just as or after you pass a street... it's like trying to take directions from my ex-girlfriend.

That's not even taking into account that _good_ GPS apps (ie _not_ that pathetic excuse for a GPS app that Apple/Uber uses) will take into account current traffic patterns, construction, road closures, accidents, etc.

Always using GPS also provides some defense against the possibility that the rider will try to claim an "inefficient route".


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

OldTownSean said:


> My "gate" for 48 hours is around 300 ... I spend about 180 gas and 30 misc. During that time and will generally gross 1000-1100 for a 500-600 profit.
> 
> The much higher fare and good tips (I am awesome) do allow for that consistent high gross. With uber a gross like that requires a ton of luck and the risk of low rating pukers in your personal car


How many hours worked during those 48 for that gross, Sean?


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

elelegido said:


> How many hours worked during those 48 for that gross, Sean?


Typically 30-32 though lately I've been pushing harder , 33-34 the past few weekends. I had to adjust my schedule a bit but I have seen my gross and net go up nicely with this change.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

osii said:


> If they are charging such low fares to monopolize the industry, they could at least offer drivers some stock incentives.


AMEN


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> There is an astounding number of people on this thread that don't comprehend accounting or budgeting, and are trying to differentiate the expense structure of Uber vs Taxi to justify differences in customer rates. The truth is that every item that is paid for on the taxi side has to be present and accounted for on the Uber side.
> 
> Both pay for cars (taxis pay a gate, we pay for the actual car, registration and all)
> Both pay for dispatch (taxis pay their company, Uber takes their commissions)
> ...


Yes expenses are a big part of the equation, but you have to consider that people have to earn a living wage. Uber is stupid! When you have the best game in town you don't continually reduce your rates and piss off the only face of Uber the rider sees. The DRIVER!!!!!!!


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> It doesn't matter how well you know a city, you won't know _every_ address, or often the best way to get from A to B. Even in EMS, we frequently use GPS. Garmin actually makes a model with a special setting for emergency vehicles that makes slight alterations to the algorithm used to calculate the best route. Although I often find that I'm traveling faster than the GPS can update my location, and it will sometimes tell you to turn just as or after you pass a street... it's like trying to take directions from my ex-girlfriend.
> 
> That's not even taking into account that _good_ GPS apps (ie _not_ that pathetic excuse for a GPS app that Apple/Uber uses) will take into account current traffic patterns, construction, road closures, accidents, etc.
> 
> Always using GPS also provides some defense against the possibility that the rider will try to claim an "inefficient route".


I worked for the London Ambulance service before and after the introduction of GPS in the vehicles.

Net result staff new to a certain area were unable to learn the area and had poor spatial awareness. And got lost when GPS signal was lost due to tall buildings.

Luckily they also had an MDT loaded up with the AtoZ Master Atlas of Greater London.

Gps was handy for long distance transfers outside London but that is it.

Gps takes people the same way most of the time.

Pointless in urban environments.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

UberExec driver in London made over £4k in one week recently.

Did 92hrs. With some Surge


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> I worked for the London Ambulance service before and after the introduction of GPS in the vehicles.
> 
> Net result staff new to a certain area were unable to learn the area and had poor spatial awareness. And got lost when GPS signal was lost due to tall buildings.
> 
> ...


I think that's more an issue with the mindset of the younger crews, ie _too much_ reliance on technology and just blindly following it. Often for example when two streets are running parallel and converging, it will send you to the end to then turn onto the other street to head back the way you were going instead of cutting down one of the side streets saving time (and likely the hassle of going through a busy intersection). Although when you're getting paid by the mile, that's a plus for GPS. I treat GPS as an improved version of the old map books, and don't blindly follow it like someone listening to directions. I actually look at the screen, and the other streets aside from just the directions it's giving. That's why I prefer a device with a larger screen. Of course that involves having good situational awareness, multitasking abilities, and quick cognitive thinking, something many seem to lack. I see the same thing when they're following treatment protocols as well, too many view them as if you have X then you do Y... and don't even get me started with differential diagnoses, and just treating the monitor as opposed to the patient...

By the way, loved the original BBC version of Sirens. The US version isn't nearly as good.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> I think that's more an issue with the mindset of the younger crews, ie _too much_ reliance on technology and just blindly following it. Often for example when two streets are running parallel and converging, it will send you to the end to then turn onto the other street to head back the way you were going instead of cutting down one of the side streets saving time (and likely the hassle of going through a busy intersection). Although when you're getting paid by the mile, that's a plus for GPS. I treat GPS as an improved version of the old map books, and don't blindly follow it like someone listening to directions. I actually look at the screen, and the other streets aside from just the directions it's giving. That's why I prefer a device with a larger screen. Of course that involves having good situational awareness, multitasking abilities, and quick cognitive thinking, something many seem to lack. I see the same thing when they're following treatment protocols as well, too many view them as if you have X then you do Y... and don't even get me started with differential diagnoses, and just treating the monitor as opposed to the patient...
> 
> By the way, loved the original BBC version of Sirens. The US version isn't nearly as good.


Sirens was based on a book by Brian Kellet called Blood Sweat and a Cup of Tea with a follow up book called More Blood More Sweat and Another Cup of Tea.

He worked on my station.

He has now gone back to Nursing, he was one of the first Triage Nurses I met in my career.

Only for him to turn up my station a couple of years later.

All the characters in Sirens were based on
people on my Complex.

It was actually on Channel 4.

But I dearly hope Brian is getting some decent money from the US Series.

But i doubt it.

Would be nice though.

He is an intelligent and compassionate bloke.

Probably a little more "Nurse" than "Ambo".


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