# Lyft Pays Less Than Minimum-Wage (Documented Proof -- Which Will Continue...)



## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Email to Lyft Payday Loan Support:
























*Want more dirty deets on Lyft? Click on my Trump Economics Avatar and scroll to the Information/About me section of my uberpeople.net page.*


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## SailingWithThe Breeze (Feb 22, 2017)

Your whining gets old.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

SailingWithThe Breeze said:


> Your whining gets old.


And yet you keep coming back to hear what I have to say.

Thanks for your feedback


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

*Updated: Lyft admits drivers should receive compensation from the moment they are pinged with a call:*


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

*See* https://uberpeople.net/threads/lyft-pays-less-than-minimum-wage-documented-proof-which-will-continue.162957/


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## GamingRideShare (Mar 30, 2017)

Don't drive then.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

GamingRideShare said:


> Don't drive then.


Thanks for the feedback -- I appreciate it


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## Zoey jasmine (Mar 25, 2017)

Very informative. A lot of us appreciate your posts. thank you!


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

I ignore most lyft pings here in nyc. I am on premium only so their plus pays us 2.85$ per mile. Why do i ignore these pings? Because 25$ per hour after all expenses is not worth the labor invested. You actually take these minimum wage pings then cry about it. While i respect you standing up for yourself i dont understand why you drive for these rates


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Fubernuber said:


> I ignore most lyft pings here in nyc. I am on premium only so their plus pays us 2.85$ per mile. Why do i ignore these pings? Because 25$ per hour after all expenses is not worth the labor invested. You actually take these minimum wage pings then cry about it. While i respect you standing up for yourself i dont understand why you drive for these rates


It's either less than minimum-wage or nothing at all. If I had a better option, I'd take it. Unemployment runs out, and you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## 7Miles (Dec 17, 2014)

96% of Uber drivers quite within a yeast .
Don't be hard on the rest 4% for coming here to vent.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Not really

You just intimidated some poor newbie CSR, who decided he couldn't be bothered to read your ginormous complaint, easier to randomly add you a few bucks with a template explanation


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## SailingWithThe Breeze (Feb 22, 2017)

Trump Economics said:


> It's either less than minimum-wage or nothing at all. If I had a better option, I'd take it. Unemployment runs out, and you gotta do what you gotta do.


Thanks for explaining who you are and what you're capable of. It lines up with the content of your posts and it all makes sense now.

Everyone controls their own destiny. I hope you can find ways to better channel your energy towards improving things in your life versus barking up the wrong tree.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Adieu said:


> Not really
> 
> You just intimidated some poor newbie CSR, who decided he couldn't be bothered to read your ginormous complaint, easier to randomly add you a few bucks with a template explanation


Hey! Totally possible, but since Lyft has a history of changing their SOPs without telling us, I have to go with the response I've been given. As of 8:50 p.m. (May 5, 2017), I haven't received a rebuttal to this email chain, which would suggest that his omission was incorrect.



SailingWithThe Breeze said:


> Thanks for explaining who you are and what you're capable of. It lines up with the content of your posts and it all makes sense now.
> 
> Everyone controls their own destiny. I hope you can find ways to better channel your energy towards improving things in your life versus barking up the wrong tree.


Thank you for the character assessment -- I appreciate it!


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## SailingWithThe Breeze (Feb 22, 2017)

Trump Economics said:


> Thank you for the character assessment -- I appreciate it!


You're very welcome!


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## Ihateyou (May 4, 2017)

7Miles said:


> 96% of Uber drivers quite within a yeast .
> Don't be hard on the rest 4% for coming here to vent.


Yeast infections can be treated.


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## pvtandrewmalone (Oct 2, 2016)

I can't stand Lyft. Contrary to what the media thinks, they are shadier and less transparent than Uber, by a lot. I wish the media would pick up on this.

I like how the top of my app says "200% Prime Time" and all I'm getting is base rate ping after base rate ping. Often times, I keep getting the same ping over and over despite 4-5 ignores.

Hey Lyft...something is wrong with your algorithim...Up the Prime Time and a driver will take it.

At least with Uber, when the map shows a surge, you actually get the advertised surge rate (most of the time).


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Ihateyou said:


> Yeast infections can be treated.


Lmao!!!!



pvtandrewmalone said:


> I can't stand Lyft. Contrary to what the media thinks, they are shadier and less transparent than Uber, by a lot. I wish the media would pick up on this.
> 
> I like how the top of my app says "200% Prime Time" and all I'm getting is base rate ping after base rate ping. Often times, I keep getting the same ping over and over despite 4-5 ignores.
> 
> ...


100% -- thank you


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Thank you so much for calling them on their shennanigans and shaming them into paying you a fair wage. IMO I bet your math caught them 100% off guard, because drivers like myself typical lack the time, patience, cognitive insight (or combination of all these) to see just how much Lyft is ripping off its drivers aka slowly strangling its Golden Goose.

Personally, I never focus on the hourly wage details because -- as your post has proven -- the computation are too detailed and very stressful when you realize your true hourly average is $2 - $10. lol. I did this once several hours after working in the Sacramento market during my first week. And came to the exact same conclusion as you-- I was being gang banged in the rear without the courtesy of lube. >,<

Instead I focus on my weekly income goal (after Lyft's deductions) + peak rides (needed to payoff my car rental). I figure that even if I can't hit my weekly $1k /daily $200-$250 target, then at least drive enough to get the $130 bonus. But still shoot for the ideal $180 free rental bonus. Keep other O&M costs low while earning the rental bonuses. Then quit and switch to doing Amazon Flex after that.

After doing AGH last week, then not opting for it this week, I'm convinced Lyft revised the app to keep the Hertz rental drivers chasing after the rental bonus. Especially those drivers in tough markets like LA who got hit with the rise in rental premiums.

Proof: This week I didn't opt for AGH. I barely got any pings during peak hours since 6am Monday. This is despite being available and online in the optimum spots (near residential in AGH zones etc). By this Wed, only had 8 of 40 rides for the $130 bonus. The app algorithm consistently tried to push me out of the AGH zone to SFO/Oakland airport etc on long pax rides. Began to panic since the week was practically over. Then on Thursday, I suddenly began receiving line runs of some 2-3 pax per line in Thur-Fri AM peak commute. This lead me to suspect the revised algorithm was designed to began to targeting rental drivers towards the end of the week? Because I never experienced this change in tempo during my 2nd week (when driving in San Francisco for first time). Suddenly, the app algorithm remembered I existed and started giving me consistent pings hourly. And so I was able to complete the $130 bonus, and now 3 rides from the free rental. Assuming Lyft mgmt really intends to honor its promotion to pay this bonus that is. lmao

So the algorithm basically cherry picks pax rides and assigns them to the different status drivers i.e. AGH v. PDB v. regular drivers. Hell regular drivers are lucky to get 1 ping per hour and if they do, they're typically long trips to SFO etc. I can personally verify that from not opting into AGH this week.

Lyft: 1 Cynergie: 0

Regardless, this carrot dangling with the rental bonus this week has achieved the desired effect--I felt compelled to drive a LOT more miles Mon - Wed in off peak hrs, just to earn money to cover my @$$ in case I missed the rental bonuses. And Lyft profited with every pax who entered the rental. So yeah, I'm now convinced their rider-driver algorithm is designed to get Lyft mgmt that $600 Million loss by taking it from PDB driver/rental bonuses.

Anyhow, when I did this calculation my first week driving in Sacramento, my subpar minimum wage revelation was extremely depressing. Especially when I realized I'd be unable to meet not only weekly bill payments, but a small fraction of my mortgage payment (i.e. property tax portion) as well. Would have quit driving Lyft that first week if there wasn't the opportunity to drive in the San Francisco market tbh.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Nice work bro!...


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## harry smith (Apr 30, 2017)

45 hours this week and its less than 10 an hour.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SailingWithThe Breeze said:


> Thanks for explaining who you are and what you're capable of. It lines up with the content of your posts and it all makes sense now.
> 
> Everyone controls their own destiny. I hope you can find ways to better channel your energy towards improving things in your life versus barking up the wrong tree.


He's providing a service to society and his local community by calling out Lyft for their illegal and immoral business practices. If I had the money, I would bankroll him!!


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Cynergie said:


> Thank you so much for calling them on their shennanigans and shaming them into paying you a fair wage. IMO I bet your math caught them 100% off guard, because drivers like myself typical lack the time, patience, cognitive insight (or combination of all these) to see just how much Lyft is ripping off its drivers aka slowly strangling its Golden Goose.
> 
> Personally, I never focus on the hourly wage details because -- as your post has proven -- the computation are too detailed and very stressful when you realize your true hourly average is $2 - $10. lol. I did this once several hours after working in the Sacramento market during my first week. And came to the exact same conclusion as you-- I was being gang banged in the rear without the courtesy of lube. >,<
> 
> ...


Yea, I can sum all of that up by saying, "Car renting/subprime auto lending is just another way to entrap. You're forced to drive more in order to cover the costs -- that was their objective in the first place."

As I've talked about on my up.net page, the PBD is illusory at this point. Yes, it's still there, but you'll have to jump through hoops and dedicate your life in order to get it. Oh, and you might fall asleep at the wheel and kill yourself, your passenger, and any other motorists on the road, but that's one of the reasons you're misclassified as an "independent contractor" -- Lyft is going to say, "I don't know him/her."

But I digress.

The PDB from 1/2016 and 1/2017 are not the same, so I'm not sure why they have the same name? Oh, yea, to show continuity. "Nothing has changed at Lyft. We're still awesome, so drive for us!" They're not awesome, and we all need other jobs asap.

Also, I agree with you -- I don't have the time to do a detailed breakdown/email after each ride, otherwise I'll be paying Lyft to drive on their platform. But hundreds of calls are there, they exist, and they can not be ignored.

In general, I try not to focus on daily or weekly earnings, I just focus my attention on tax time -- that's where my "less than minimum-wage" statements are really coming from, regardless of any present circumstances. Every year my tax guy tells me, "You really didn't make that much money last year," and when we do the math and divide it by 2,000 driving hours (estimated), you get your less than minimum-wage earnings. So it doesn't matter if you make $8 one hour or $25 the next, over a tapestry of time, the results are still the same -- something a lot of drivers and passengers don't understand, and that's what Lyft is counting on.

Again, Lyft and Uber are nothing more than a short-term payday loan (desguised as an app). On a corporate level, I like the comparison of "pyramid scheme."

Oh, and yes, the algorithm is designed to keep you on the road at all hours of the day. Like the PDB, they do everything in their power to schedule you without actually "scheduling you" -- only an employer can do that. "Oh, we're gonna space your calls out and give you this amount of short rides in a row, that way you're forced to stay online. You're forced to drive again tomorrow. You're forced to drive until that rental is paid, etc."

It's all incredibly intricate, and that's why they fight every subpoena they get.

*Ready to have your mind blown? 
*
So why did Lyft start going downhill in January of this year? Why the PDB revisions, etc.? Was it their 2016 losses? Yes. But it's also has to do with the fact that they settled their misclassification lawsuit in CA. Now they can do whatever they want with you and know that your only recourse is arbitration or small claims -- small cookies for them and their investors.

But I'm not really interested in all of that. My goal is to expose them publicly -- that will always be my goal (to share my story/take others behind the scenes). And by keeping continual contact with the journalists who are following my story, etc., it's only a matter of time before Lyft gets their share of the publicity.

"What goes up must come down."



harry smith said:


> 45 hours this week and its less than 10 an hour.


Thank you for your contributions to this post. Together, we can show the world what Lyft doesn't want seen.



circle1 said:


> He's providing a service to society and his local community by calling out Lyft for their illegal and immoral business practices. If I had the money, I would bankroll him!!


No, no -- we don't argue with people like that. As Carl Jung once said,* "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering." *


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## MARY ANDERSON (May 3, 2017)

He really is choking the fleet, hope things change soon.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

MARY ANDERSON said:


> He really is choking the fleet, hope things change soon.


I believe the tipping point has arrived. I've been driving almost every day for the past 2 years and I'm finally at that "nothing matters point." I don't even speak to passengers anymore beyond hello, and I'm like the nicest, most talkative person you will ever meet. And if I'm done, I feel like the average driver is just obliterated. And that means real trouble for Uber and Lyft.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Independent contractors are not guaranteed minimum wage. 

Uber is no better. I've driven 5 miles for a $2.36 fare so 5 miles back is 10 miles x 53.5 = 5.35 so I lost $2.99 on that ride.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

If you read the email I sent them at the beginning of my post, it says, "regardless of employee misclassification." 

Likewise, I drive for Uber, too, so I hear you


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