# The truth about prop 22



## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

https://medium.com/in-complete-info...ctually-increase-pay-for-workers-adf073f953b3


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Rideshare Dude said:


> https://medium.com/in-complete-info...ctually-increase-pay-for-workers-adf073f953b3


Damn lying statistics.

A modicum of freedom under prop. 22 or part time, minimum unemployment under AB5?

Easy choice for profitable contractors who adapt, experiment, and utilize multiple apps.

Vote YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

*Prop. 22's "Guaranteed Earnings *= Total Engaged Hours x 1.20 Local Minimum Wage + $.30 x Total Engaged Miles + 82% of the average Covered California Bronze Plan *if the number of Engaged Hours is greater than 25 per week*, or half that number if the number of Engaged Hours is between 15 and 25 per week, + value of additional occupational insurance mandated by Prop. 22.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> *Prop. 22's "Guaranteed Earnings *= Total Engaged Hours x 1.20 Local Minimum Wage + $.30 x Total Engaged Miles + 82% of the average Covered California Bronze Plan *if the number of Engaged Hours is greater than 25 per week*, or half that number if the number of Engaged Hours is between 15 and 25 per week, + value of additional occupational insurance mandated by Prop. 22.


Since you mention ocuppational insurance, I found this interesting



















Prop 22 requires Uber to provide or *make available *insurance.

_*Make available*_ sounds like drivers are going to wind up paying for it.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> *Prop. 22's "Guaranteed Earnings *= Total Engaged Hours x 1.20 Local Minimum Wage + $.30 x Total Engaged Miles + 82% of the average Covered California Bronze Plan *if the number of Engaged Hours is greater than 25 per week*, or half that number if the number of Engaged Hours is between 15 and 25 per week, + value of additional occupational insurance mandated by Prop. 22.


So. Is that better than part time, minimum wage employee status in California?

Any way you could provide a spreadsheet detailing the pay differences between prop. 22 and AB5 regarding part time and full time drivers?

Genuinely interested.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

observer said:


> Since you mention ocuppational insurance, I found this interesting
> 
> View attachment 519624
> 
> ...


It's not clear at all. What are the injures? What if i hurt my kneecap while lifting a luggage? 
What if i contract the coronavirus from the passenger? Does occupational insurance cover that?
What if the medical bills exceeds $1 million? Imagine a complicated injury with multiple surgeries and long hospitalization.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> It's not clear at all. What are the injures? What if i hurt my kneecap while lifting a luggage?
> What if i contract the coronavirus from the passenger? Does occupational insurance cover that?
> What if the medical bills exceeds $1 million? Imagine a complicated injury with multiple surgeries and long hospitalization.


What is clear is that if there is some type of injury insurance, drivers will have to pay for it.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

observer said:


> What is clear is that if there is some type of injury insurance, drivers will have to pay for it.


How does that payment work? Can drivers pay directly to the insurance company?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> How does that payment work? Can drivers pay directly to the insurance company?


That is unknown. Uber will probably negotiate an insurance policy with a company and then charge drivers. Like they do auto insurance.

I'm just pointing out that under Prop 22, Uber doesn't have to provide that insurance. Uber could just make it available.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

sasu66 said:


> It's not clear at all. What are the injures? What if i hurt my kneecap while lifting a luggage?
> What if i contract the coronavirus from the passenger? Does occupational insurance cover that?
> What if the medical bills exceeds $1 million? Imagine a complicated injury with multiple surgeries and long hospitalization.


You are looking at all ound 200,000 for two weeks of intubated ICU care... So, yeah. Hope you get the 3 day all expenses plus free medicine thst may or may not have even done anything Trump plan.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Nowhere in any of the advertisements does it show prop 22 being beneficial to full-time drivers , the reason for that is because the pay structure under prop 22 is only attractive to somebody wanting to earn a few extra bucks


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## Spartacus_ (Aug 21, 2020)

Hi all, I worked on the report that was originally linked in this thread. Happy to answer any questions about the methodology/findings and especially interested in any feedback. Important distinction: we don't claim to know what drivers _will make _should 22 pass/fail, only that it appears the "earnings guarantee" will most often be set lower than status quo and minimum wage for the majority of workers, which in our view makes such "guarantees" fairly worthless. You can actually check to see how the "earnings guarantee" formula that sasu66 quoted would apply to a prior weekly pay statement from Uber, Lyft, or another gig platform on our site (linked in original article).


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> You are looking at all ound 200,000 for two weeks of intubated ICU care... So, yeah. Hope you get the 3 day all expenses plus free medicine thst may or may not have even done anything Trump plan.


What?


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

Judge and Jury said:


> So. Is that better than part time, minimum wage employee status in California?


No it is not.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Keep your wheels rolling for 60 Minutes during an hour and you get minimum wage plus 20% under prop 22


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> Keep your wheels rolling for 60 Minutes during an hour and you get minimum wage plus 20% under prop 22


And Uber has complete control over how many rides you get during that hour.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Spartacus_ said:


> Hi all, I worked on the report that was originally linked in this thread. Happy to answer any questions about the methodology/findings and especially interested in any feedback.


Well analyzed. Especially this part &#128071;

To be clear, Prop. 22 would not prevent apps from paying more than the "Earnings Guarantee," but nothing in the law would force them to do so - in our opinion, relying only on the* generosity* of gig companies to pay minimum wage would not be smart policy.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Judge and Jury said:


> So. Is that better than part time, minimum wage employee status in California?
> 
> Any way you could provide a spreadsheet detailing the pay differences between prop. 22 and AB5 regarding part time and full time drivers?
> 
> Genuinely interested.


Here is a pay comparison calculator for prop 22 You can check it out.
https://gigcompare.com/calculate_intro/


Judge and Jury said:


> Damn lying statistics.


Can you enlighten the rest of us what part you feel is lying statistics?


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Rideshare Dude said:


> https://medium.com/in-complete-info...ctually-increase-pay-for-workers-adf073f953b3


Earning's gaurantee are a moot issue, I rarely make less than the gaurantee anyway, so, who cares?


observer said:


> Since you mention ocuppational insurance, I found this interesting
> 
> View attachment 519624
> 
> ...


I used to be a W-2er with a shuttle company, back in 2001, and they 'made available' health insurance. 
The deal was I'd pay half, so I paid $75 for kaiser, and it was a good deal, until the company made me an iC, then I lost my insurance.

but, since I have medicare now I'm not concerned about it.


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## UberDerrick (Apr 20, 2019)

Well, now that Uber / Lyft won Prop22, we will soon see their cut of the fare going up from 25% (in California) to 30%, 35%, and more.

You'll make less and less just like always.

They tricked you into voting against your own best interest!


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberDerrick said:


> You'll make less and less just like always.


wild speculation based on what? Prop 22 sets a floor, not the ceiling.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> wild speculation based on what? Prop 22 sets a floor, not the ceiling.


The ceiling is 30 cents per mile + 120% of minimum wage on "engaged time". What is the floor?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> The ceiling is 30 cents per mile + 120% of minimum wage on "engaged time


no, you have it wrong. THAT is the floor. The mileage reimb is a nit. And really, could a driver in calif really makes less than $13 per hour plus 20%? The least I made was > $15 dollars an hour and that is hardly trying very hard. the 120% as a ceiling would be a reduction in pay.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> no, you have it wrong. THAT is the floor.


 Why would Uber pay you more than floor when they can pay another driver the floor?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> Why would Uber you more than floor when they can pay another driver the floor as the law clearly indicates?


wut? Can you unscramble that? The minimum is over a period of time. You make less than 120% an adjustment is made. You make over that, yay for you no adjustment. Not exactly sure why that is confusing, seems simple.

And if a driver is always getting the adjustment, they are doing something way way wrong.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> wut? Can you unscramble that?


 Why would Uber pay you more than floor when they can pay another driver the floor?


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Spartacus_ said:


> Hi all, I worked on the report that was originally linked in this thread. Happy to answer any questions about the methodology/findings and especially interested in any feedback. Important distinction: we don't claim to know what drivers _will make _should 22 pass/fail, only that it appears the "earnings guarantee" will most often be set lower than status quo and minimum wage for the majority of workers, which in our view makes such "guarantees" fairly worthless. You can actually check to see how the "earnings guarantee" formula that sasu66 quoted would apply to a prior weekly pay statement from Uber, Lyft, or another gig platform on our site (linked in original article).


Is the $0.30/mi categorized as compensation OR reimbursemenot?



Diamondraider said:


> Is the $0.30/mi categorized as compensation OR reimbursemenot?


Reimbursed miles are not deductible/partially deductible


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

UberDerrick said:


> Well, now that Uber / Lyft won Prop22, we will soon see their cut of the fare going up from 25% (in California) to 30%, 35%, and more.
> 
> You'll make less and less just like always.
> 
> They tricked you into voting against your own best interest!


We'll find out next month (December), but I think there will be no more percentages taken at all. We get paid by minutes and miles and incentives. Uber can charge whatever they want.


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## UberDerrick (Apr 20, 2019)

Paul Vincent said:


> We'll find out next month (December), but I think there will be no more percentages taken at all. We get paid by minutes and miles and incentives. Uber can charge whatever they want.


Whatever they do, it's to increase their bottom line, often AT THE EXPENSE of drivers (not to mention passengers too).

With their Prop22 win, Uber/Lyft are embolden to do whatever they want now.

Again, drivers have no say in their own work.

We're back to square 1.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

UberDerrick said:


> Whatever they do, it's to increase their bottom line, often AT THE EXPENSE of drivers (not to mention passengers too).
> 
> With their Prop22 win, Uber/Lyft are embolden to do whatever they want now.
> 
> ...


I guess everyone has conveniently forgot about the elephant in the room... Sacramento.

Sacramento and the unions are not happy about Prop 22 passing. The last thing Sacramento and the unions will ever accept is the people of CA deciding law. Some activist court will most likely strike down Prop 22 and even if it doesn't there is nothing stopping Sacramento from passing another law. Uber is not going to take anything away or lower drivers pay and provide Sacramento even more incentive to go after them.


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## UberDerrick (Apr 20, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I guess everyone has conveniently forgot about the elephant in the room... Sacramento.
> 
> Sacramento and the unions are not happy about Prop 22 passing. The last thing Sacramento and the unions will ever accept is the people of CA deciding law. Some activist court will most likely strike down Prop 22 and even if it doesn't there is nothing stopping Sacramento from passing another law. Uber is not going to take anything away or lower drivers pay and provide Sacramento even more incentive to go after them.


Time will tell.....soon!


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## UberDerrick (Apr 20, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I guess everyone has conveniently forgot about the elephant in the room... Sacramento.
> 
> Sacramento and the unions are not happy about Prop 22 passing. The last thing Sacramento and the unions will ever accept is the people of CA deciding law. Some activist court will most likely strike down Prop 22 and even if it doesn't there is nothing stopping Sacramento from passing another law. Uber is not going to take anything away or lower drivers pay and provide Sacramento even more incentive to go after them.





Fusion_LUser said:


> The only other law they should pass is one that prevents insurance companies from charging individual independent drivers the same premium (>$5,000) as a taxi.


As I said before, the only reason why they could charge a taxi that much is because it belongs to a company with deeper pocket than an individual independent driver.

If passed, this law will open up the market for truly independent drivers to compete for business.

And because individual drivers won't have to pay the high premium and the 25% or more cut from Uber/Lyft, they could pass that savings to passengers.

Prop22 proves that you can't use a law to force fairness.

You have to let the competition do it.



UberDerrick said:


> As I said before, the only reason why they could charge a taxi that much is because it belongs to a company with deeper pocket than an individual independent driver.
> 
> If passed, this law will open up the market for truly independent drivers to compete for business.
> 
> ...


I don't know why my post, "The only other law they should pass...." was placed under Fusion_LUser's post.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> The last thing Sacramento and the unions will ever accept is the people of CA deciding law


which is why the bar is so high for the turds in Sacto to 'override' a proposition the voters passed.

AB5 is cooked. AND maybe the unions might want to investigate why their membership continues to shrink nationally every year. And why unions were involved is a mystery to begin with; like they were going to herd fleas (drivers) to vote 50% +1 to unionize? Ha, not happening. Gotta be employees and have to vote; neither is happening.


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