# (Updated) UberROBOTICS | Self-Driving Cars



## chi1cabby

*Report: Uber Is Building a Robotics Factory for Self-Driving Cars*

Apparently Uber, which is notorious for more or less ignoring its drivers needs already, is just beginning to look into cutting out the middleman entirely. According to a report from TechCrunch, the on-demand car service is building a robotics research lab to "kickstart autonomous taxi fleet development." Because at least robots won't get all uppity about sketchy loans and unfair wages.

And Uber's not messing around. The company has reportedly hired 50 senior scientists from Carnegie Mellon and the National Robotics Engineering Center (which is associated with the university) to staff the brand-new robotics workshop. According to TechCrunch's source, "Uber has 'cleaned out' the Robotics Institute."

While we don't know how much Uber's invested in its new venture, it's undoubtedly eating up quite a bit of its recently-raised $4 billion in equity. All Google has to do, on the other hand, is design an app and business model-which, especially for Google, is pocket change compared to the kinds of fund Uber's going to need to design its own fleet robotic cars.

This could go one of several ways. Google could be getting ready to undercut Uber fares, which is more or less Uber's entire business model. But if Google pulled out of Uber entirely, Bloomberg notes that Uber would be "crippled if it lost access to the industry-leading mapping application [Google Maps]." In other words, if Google and Uber really are setting themselves up to face off, Google is a shoe-in to come out on top. [TechCrunch, Bloomberg]


Ashley Feinberg


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## Lidman

Where did this Ashley get this from "The National Enquirer" ???


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Opening Robotics Research Facility In Pittsburgh To Build Self-Driving Cars* 
John Biggs (@johnbiggs)

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/02/ub...ity-in-pittsburgh-to-build-self-driving-cars/


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## UberHammer

Good.

Now Uber's robots can drive to the wrong address and get the text "WTF are you?!?"


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## Ubermon

Man, you are fast chi1cabby. I came here thinking I had an article hot off the presses to share. Turns out, I'm 25 mins too late!


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## Luberon

Uber will never let cars it OWNS on the road for liability. They would sell/lease those cars to a 3rd party company financed by Goldman Sachs.


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## puber

I don't know, something tells me that those cars will get frequent flat tire problems, especially when they park next to pissed off santander lease uberX drivers


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## UberHammer

puber said:


> I don't know, something tells me that those cars will get frequent flat tire problems, especially when they park next to pissed off santander lease uberX drivers


Can you imagine what some of your Friday/Saturday night riders would do in your car if you weren't there?


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## Sacto Burbs

Get a room- Uber please


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## fargonaz

Maybe we can create a new category for this ridiculous self-driving car crap, because it's definitely not news.


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## Luberon

They should come with a preinstalled puke detector


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## UberCemetery

On the bright side - it will encourage us all to do something that is more financially rewarding. Can you really see yourself being a Uber Driver / Partner for any extended period of time?


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## Casuale Haberdasher

puber said:


> I don't know, something tells me that those cars will get frequent flat tire problems, especially when they park next to pissed off santander lease uberX drivers


POST # 7 / @puber : ♤♡♢♧ LOL! But
this DOES make me think of the Droidness
of Skynet.

#Emperor Asshat I is
sporting a $40 Billion soft-on watching
Godknowswho via "GodView" whilst
furiously, but futily attempting to 
enjoy robotic onanism. Chortle.


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## chi1cabby

*UBER AND CMU ANNOUNCE STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP AND ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES CENTER*
*http://blog.uber.com/carnegie-mellon*


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## UL Driver SF

One more vapid **** blogger trying to pass off old news as new news. Robotics research into this area is old news.


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## Bart McCoy

2032 will be soonest driverless cars will be used as taxi like vehicles


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## Moofish

Ironic Uber using the money it makes from under-paid drivers to find a way to replace them, but we all knew it was coming for a long time.


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## Simon

Bart McCoy said:


> 2032 will be soonest driverless cars will be used as taxi like vehicles


I think it will be sooner than that.


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## driveLA

Uber is too stupid to pull this off

They invented a simple app 

Driverless cars is on a whole other level of ingenuity and technology 

Ubers expertise is scamming people not reinventing the car


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## observer

Moofish said:


> Ironic Uber using the money it makes from under-paid drivers to find a way to replace them, but we all knew it was coming for a long time.


Even more ironic is that while he was trying to screw over the drivers and replacing them. He was getting screwed and being replaced by Google!!


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## Fuzzyelvis

Luberon said:


> Uber will never let cars it OWNS on the road for liability. They would sell/lease those cars to a 3rd party company financed by Goldman Sachs.


I was thinking the same thing. How can they say they're not a transportation company if they own the cars. Never mind the liability.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Sacto Burbs said:


> Get a room- Uber please


Will the cars be self cleaning also?


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## Simon

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Will the cars be self cleaning also?


The cars will be maintained be thier owners, you and me.


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## Sacto Burbs

Puke cleaned up just like the self cleaning toilets in Paris. Great idea


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## humandriver

Hopefully more drivers come to their senses and abandon this company ASAP.


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## JJcriggins

Domo Arigato....


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## chi1cabby

*Uber's hiring plans show outlines of self-driving car project *
*
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2906...show-outlines-of-selfdriving-car-project.html*


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## Lidman

Hmmm, I still wonder how they plan on dealing with the expense of operating these cars.


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## UberCemetery

Uber not sure what they want to do? Hire drivers - and then dump them slowly when this technology hits the streets?


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## Sydney Uber

UberHammer said:


> Good.
> 
> Now Uber's robots can drive to the wrong address and get the text "WTF are you?!?"


And that post gets MY award for "effing funniest post of the day!"

Good one UberHammer !


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## Sydney Uber

Lidman said:


> Hmmm, I still wonder how they plan on dealing with the expense of operating these cars.


Hey Lidman! You do identify Uber's archilles heel. They don't really have ANY bricks and mortar wealth to finance its vision. They've excited the VC market with their abilty to scale up around the world. But SOMEONE has to pay for these driverless cars.

Here's part of an earlier post of mine:

Travis says driverless cars are coming. He has a better angle at how to amortise costs.

He'll "reach out" to fleet owners to finance his vision (first driverless car will cost about $150,000). It only takes a $15.00 p/hr average, 20hrs per day, 6 days a week, 50 weeks per year to gross $90,000. He takes his 20% commission that leaves $72,000 p/a revenue. With my 30yr experience in running personal transport vehicles I could go to my Bank and they will HAPPILY loan me the funds on those numbers over 3-5yr loans.

I'd be sitting at home in my pyjamas watching my fleet, bringing them home when some kid chucks up in one (love that $400 cleaning fee), being the trained controller if they get hooked up to intervene in a recovery process. Travis wants his risk free 20%. And he'll get it from cashed up transportation providers like myself.


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## Brett in NYC

It will never happen in a city like NYC where there is high pedestrian traffic, and those pedestrians continually challenge cars. A driverless car would spend an hour trying to make a right turn onto a street with a busy crosswalk.

There's more to driving than turning the wheel and pushing pedals, especially in a very crowded city.


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## Lidman

Not to mention all the potholes and speed bumps.


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## UberCemetery

These driver-less cars are for the rural highway only. If the driver-less car gets a flat tire who changes it? Will there be cars just pulling up to the driver-less car dealership with nobody in the car? What happens when The Travis K. driver-less car drops a rider off - does it just pull away from the driveway, or street curb and then just sit there waiting for the next ping? How will the car not know there is no parking on the east side of the street? Or street cleaning Tuesday thru Thursday the 2nd and 4th week of the month? Or to clean the garbage out of the back seat. Or will the driver-less car be able to go thru the drive thru lane at the fast food restaurant? Will the driver-less car be able to get unstuck in the snow? Or will it automatically send a signal for the driver-less tow truck?


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## zMann

puber said:


> I don't know, something tells me that those cars will get frequent flat tire problems, especially when they park next to pissed off santander lease uberX drivers


This is so funny, lol


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## zMann

UberCemetery said:


> These driver-less cars are for the rural highway only. If the driver-less car gets a flat tire who changes it? Will there be cars just pulling up to the driver-less car dealership with nobody in the car? What happens when The Travis K. driver-less car drops a rider off - does it just pull away from the driveway, or street curb and then just sit there waiting for the next ping? How will the car not know there is no parking on the east side of the street? Or street cleaning Tuesday thru Thursday the 2nd and 4th week of the month? Or to clean the garbage out of the back seat. Or will the driver-less car be able to go thru the drive thru lane at the fast food restaurant? Will the driver-less car be able to get unstuck in the snow? Or will it automatically send a signal for the driver-less tow truck?


Great points of view.


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## Lidman

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Will the cars be self cleaning also?


Only if they self drive thru the carwash with the windows open.


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## Brett in NYC

zMann said:


> Great points of view.


There are 1000's of good questions like those that people who talk about driverless as though they'll be here any day, now, never bother asking.


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## UberCemetery

Brett in NYC said:


> There are 1000's of good questions like those that people who talk about driverless as though they'll be here any day, now, never bother asking.


Ya and they never mention this kind of stuff.  What happened to Google and Uber partnership with the driver-less car stuff? Google cut them out of the picture?


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## UberCemetery

*Dispatch From The Future: Uber To Purchase 2,500 Driverless Cars From Google*

*http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/25/uberauto/
*
Uber announced its biggest bet on autonomous vehicles yet, saying it would purchase 2,500 driverless cars from Google.

Uber has committed to invest up to $375 million for a fleet of Google's GX3200 vehicles, which are the company's third generation of autonomous driving cars, but the first to be approved for commercial use in the U.S. The deal marks the largest single capital investment that Uber has made to date, and is also the first enterprise deal that Google has struck for its new line of driverless vehicles.


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## Sydney Uber

Brett in NYC said:


> It will never happen in a city like NYC where there is high pedestrian traffic, and those pedestrians continually challenge cars. A driverless car would spend an hour trying to make a right turn onto a street with a busy crosswalk.
> 
> There's more to driving than turning the wheel and pushing pedals, especially in a very crowded city.


NYC will be one of the first cities to adopt driverless cars. Along with a congestion tax that will limit private car users, legislators will trip over themselves to accommodate the advantages they will bring.


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## chi1cabby

UberCemetery said:


> Dispatch From The Future: Uber To Purchase 2,500 Driverless Cars From Google


That's an article from 2013. Since late 2014, there has been a major parting of ways between Google & Uber, despite $250MM investment in Uber by Google Ventures.

Here are some obvious signs of Google vs Uber rift:
*Dec 2014:* The insider gossip:
*Why Uber and Google Will Become Big Rivals*
https://www.theinformation.com/Why-Uber-and-Google-Will-Become-Big-Rivals
*Feb 2015:* Reports of Google developing Ride-sharing App
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/2/7966979/google-developing-ride-sharing-app-report
*Feb 2015:* The topic of this thread on Uber poaching 50 scientists from Carnegie Mellon Robotics Center to set up it's own center.
*Feb 2015:* Google Uber Rift is No longer gossip, it's now public knowledge.
*Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor*
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-google-and-uber-are-going-to-war-over-taxis
*March 2015:* Uber makes it's first publicly announced acquisition of mapping company deCarta, despite using Google Maps.
http://mashable.com/2015/03/03/uber-acquires-mapping-decarta/
*March 2015:* Uber's CFO Brent Callinicos resigns after 18 months on the job. Previously Brent was Treasurer & COO at Google, and was credited for it's IPO.
http://fortune.com/2015/03/16/uber-cfo-ipo-speculation/


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## UberCemetery

chi1cabby said:


> parting of ways between Google & Uber, despite $250MM investment in Uber by Google Ventures.


Yup thats what I thought Google dumped them.


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## Sydney Uber

UberCemetery said:


> *Dispatch From The Future: Uber To Purchase 2,500 Driverless Cars From Google*
> 
> *http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/25/uberauto/
> *
> Uber announced its biggest bet on autonomous vehicles yet, saying it would purchase 2,500 driverless cars from Google.
> 
> Uber has committed to invest up to $375 million for a fleet of Google's GX3200 vehicles, which are the company's third generation of autonomous driving cars, but the first to be approved for commercial use in the U.S. The deal marks the largest single capital investment that Uber has made to date, and is also the first enterprise deal that Google has struck for its new line of driverless vehicles.


Look at the dateline of the article


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## Casuale Haberdasher

chi1cabby said:


> That's an article from 2013. Since late 2014, there has been a major parting of ways between Google & Uber, despite $250MM investment in Uber by Google Ventures.
> 
> Here are some obvious signs of Google vs Uber rift:
> *Dec 2014:* The insider gossip:
> *Why Uber and Google Will Become Big Rivals*
> https://www.theinformation.com/Why-Uber-and-Google-Will-Become-Big-Rivals
> *Feb 2015:* Reports of Google developing Ride-sharing App
> http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/2/7966979/google-developing-ride-sharing-app-report
> *Feb 2015:* The topic of this thread on Uber poaching 50 scientists from Carnegie Mellon Robotics Center to set up it's own center.
> *Feb 2015:* Google Uber Rift is No longer gossip, it's now public knowledge.
> *Google Is Developing Its Own Uber Competitor*
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-google-and-uber-are-going-to-war-over-taxis
> *March 2015:* Uber makes it's first publicly announced acquisition of mapping company deCarta, despite using Google Maps.
> http://mashable.com/2015/03/03/uber-acquires-mapping-decarta/
> *March 2015:* Uber's CFO Brent Callinicos resigns after 18 months on the job. Previously Brent was Treasurer & COO at Google, and was credited for it's IPO.
> http://fortune.com/2015/03/16/uber-cfo-ipo-speculation/


POST # 42 /chi1cabby : Thanks, C1C!


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## UberCemetery




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## UberCemetery

Sydney Uber said:


> Look at the dateline of the article


Yes I know - I also know about all the other articles, and story advancements. I looked back to find it just to post it because of what it said in the article. I posted it to make the point that it was not true anymore. I did it purposely.


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## UberCemetery

I follow most of these articles like my Bro chi1cabby


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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> Here are some obvious signs of Google vs Uber rift:


*Timeline: How Google and Uber went from BFFs to frenemies*
by Kevin Roose 
http://fusion.net/story/132249/timeline-how-google-and-uber-went-from-lovers-to-frenemies/


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## chi1cabby

*Don't Cry for Carnegie Mellon*
*http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...artnership_how_everyone_wins_in_the_end.html#*
*







*


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## chi1cabby

*Uber gutted Carnegie Mellon's top robotics lab to build self-driving cars*
*http://www.theverge.com/transportat...ber-self-driving-cars-carnegie-mellon-poached*


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## chi1cabby

*Uber's Driverless Car Chief Not Worried About Taking Away Jobs*
*http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiy...r-im-not-worried-about-taking-away#.ef9AwloDq*

*







*
*uɐᴉɹoʞᴉɹʞ ᴉɟɟɐɹ (@raffi): https://twitter.com/raffi?s=09*


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## humandriver

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber's Driverless Car Chief Not Worried About Taking Away Jobs*
> *http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiy...r-im-not-worried-about-taking-away#.ef9AwloDq*
> 
> *
> View attachment 8665
> *
> *uɐᴉɹoʞᴉɹʞ ᴉɟɟɐɹ (@raffi): https://twitter.com/raffi?s=09*


He thinks he's such a bad ass, his twitter profile heading is "I break things." Of course he's not worried, he's being paid a shitload of money to put drivers out of business. We might as well hit him up on twitter or write to his email address to let him know how we feel. In the article he also says 'we need to' work on automating education. I love when people like this, who think technology is the answer to every problem, decide that they know what's best for the rest of society. Does anyone think we aught to be investing in PEOPLE? The college classes I've taken that were exclusively online to save money on teaching staff were incredibly counter intuitive. What an asshole.


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## LADriver

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber Opening Robotics Research Facility In Pittsburgh To Build Self-Driving Cars*
> John Biggs (@johnbiggs)
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/02/uber-opening-robotics-research-facility-in-pittsburgh-to-build-self-driving-cars/


Here's the L.A. version of UBER's driverless cars: An UBER car is ordered to a remote South-Central L.A. location. The brand new sparkling car arrives at the South-Central L.A location on time with a Travis Happy-Face painted on it's hood. The tech-savvy Gang with a fake UBER account that ordered the car proceed to load the driver-less car, after disabling it's GPS locating system onto a gang owned flatbed tow truck and take it to a remote dismantling shop. While in the gangs' possession, all marketable items such as tires, wheels, brakes, engine, drive-train, body parts, seats, windows and electronics are pulled and separated for sale on the black market. Good bye UBER car....parts.


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## chi1cabby

*This investor has an interesting theory on what Google will do with its self-driving cars*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/stev...uber-competitor-with-self-driving-cars-2015-6*


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## chi1cabby

*What Uber Might Use in Place of Nokia's Here Mapping Technology*
http://recode.net/2015/07/11/what-uber-might-use-in-place-of-nokias-here-mapping-technology/


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Out of the Running for Here, Nokia's Digital Mapping Service*
*http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/1...nokias-digital-mapping-service.html?referrer=*


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## chi1cabby

*This graph shows how much self-driving cars will save you on insurance*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-self-driving-cars-will-save-you-on-insurance-2015-7*


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## chi1cabby

*The Little-Known Robot Taxi That Could Outrun Google and Uber*


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## chi1cabby

*Uber will partner with University of Arizona for self-driving car research*
*http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/25/9...f-arizona-tucson-autonomous-self-driving-cars*


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## TwoFiddyMile

Yeah...
I think this is all smoke and mirrors.

Why would a dispatch only company wish to take on billions in new overhead?
Take it from one who has tried- fleet ownership and maintenance is for the birds.


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Hires Two Engineers Who Showed Cars Could Be Hacked*


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## TwoFiddyMile

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber Hires Two Engineers Who Showed Cars Could Be Hacked*


Interesting paranoid angle- maybe Uber will secretly hack and disable everything but Uber robot cars.
Uber as Kaos- it's not that far fetched.


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## Ara

That’s right! Uber is going to spend millions of dollars on new technologies to rid itself of its most hated commodity….Uber drivers!


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## Ara

http://www.theverge.com/sponsored/9027419/onstar-five-technologies-propelling-driving-to-the-future


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## Ara

It's no secret that its CEO Travis Kalanick is trying to expedite Uber's autonomous vehicle research program. Just yesterday Uber partnered up with the University of Arizona and the focus will be self-driving car technology, particularly the mapping and optics challenges involved in developing a fully autonomous vehicle. This comes after last year's announced partnership with Carnegie Mellon University to create the Uber Advanced Technologies Center in Pittsburgh. Uber's also working with Google and asked Tesla for 500,000 autonomous cars by the year 2020. One way or another Uber will eliminate its workforce, and it looks like the sooner the better for the 50 Billion dollar start-up.


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## Ara

Travis Kalanick, the CEO and founder of Uber, told a business conference he’d happily replace human Uber drivers with a fleet of self-driving cars. Once you get rid of the driver, “the cost of taking an Uber anywhere becomes cheaper than owning a vehicle,” he said. Does Travis speak out of both sides of his mouth? Just this time last year he stated “at the end of 2014, the goal for this year is to create another 1 million jobs around the world through Uber’s platform.” Travis also stated a few months back ” Uber is helping to create a new kind of economy—one that empowers contract workers to be their own bosses, on their own schedules, while earning a reliable income.” So how does autonomous cars factor in that equation? Uber wants to create millions of jobs across the world, in the process eliminate 100,000’s legitimate taxi drivers, and then replace them all with ROBOTS. Wow that sounds like a brilliant plan to help the world’s economy! Talking about spreading the wealth around..didn’t a famous German thought along these lines?


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## Ara

Travis is one greedy POS and I don’t understand why people can’t see this? Is it the fact he throws a few crumbs at his drivers? or all the BS fluff PR stuff? Still one of my favorite quotes by him “The reason Uber is expensive is because you’re not just paying for the car — you’re paying for the other dude in the car,” Kalanick said. “When there’s no other dude in the car, the cost of taking an Uber anywhere becomes cheaper than owning a vehicle.” That’s what he things of you guys! He’ll thorough you to the curb at drop of a dime, no really to save 10 cents he would! Once again.. Uberon drivers while you can.


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## chi1cabby

*UBER 2.0: HUMAN SELF-DRIVING CARS*
*https://stratechery.com/2015/uber-2-0-human-self-driving-cars/*


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona

chi1cabby said:


> *UBER 2.0: HUMAN SELF-DRIVING CARS*
> *https://stratechery.com/2015/uber-2-0-human-self-driving-cars/*


I love it when tech geeks spout off about how to improve the transportation industry. They have no clue, kinda like Uber's management.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Trunks and branches. 
They are confusing Telco with transportation. 
Next we will be hearing about vectors, DNITS, DIDs, etc translated into transport speak.


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Could Be First to Test Completely Driverless Cars in Public*
*http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-...-to-test-completely-driverless-cars-in-public*


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## observer

That is all driverless technology needs, Uber is going to not follow safety precautions, cause an accident and set public acceptance back for years.


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## just drive

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber Could Be First to Test Completely Driverless Cars in Public*
> *http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-...-to-test-completely-driverless-cars-in-public*


Uber is good at adapting to markets. So this will not be all over. Example, in india uber offers option to pay for the transaction by cash. That's how they adapted to that market.


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## crowsandcats

This uber driverless car idea nonsense will last a couple weekends until someone's uber car shows up with a dead man laying in the back of the car with vomit blocking his trachea.


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## Ubermon

crowsandcats said:


> This uber driverless car idea nonsense will last a couple weekends until someone's uber car shows up with a dead man laying in the back of the car with vomit blocking his trachea.


Unless said car detects the rider is in distress and makes a beeline for the nearest hospital while sending patient information ahead. This can be accomplished in various ways from a panic button to sensors in the seat: SEE LINK: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/23/us-car-technology-idUSKCN0RN11P20150923

Seriously, why wouldn't the car engineers plan for this eventuality? The supposed plan is for these cars to function independently. Why the hell wouldn't they throw as many scenarios at these vehicles as they can and build in solutions if the car can't handle them on its own?

The problem here isn't the brains behind this endeavor. Google, Tesla, Apple, Uber, Volvo, Audi, Delphi, Mercedes, Daimler, etc. SOMEONE is gonna get it right. More than a few powerful minds are involved at different levels to get this thing rolled out and functioning better than human drivers. (That's all that's needed by the way, BETTER not perfect.). This isn't a unicorn that will take decades of R&D and invention of new hardware. The technology for this exists and just needs assembly. The problem isn't user acceptance. The tech is already worming its way into current vehicles on the road. And it seems to me it would be rather easy for cheap Uber riders to switch to UberDriverless for a cheaper price.

The problem is the greed. It is pure greed that seeks to remove "the other guy in the car". It masks itself as humanitarian, seeking to better the human driving condition. But the players behind this are profit driven. And their next target is what they apparently consider unnecessary overhead: human workers.

The harm AI and automation will inflict on the workforce far exceeds the benefits. When machines fight our wars, grow and prepare our food, and minds every minutia of our daily lives, what would be the point of human lives below the elite? Think about that.


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## RamzFanz

annnnnnnd, it's over. First driverless vehicle hits the streets in the netherlands.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...-to-dutch-public-roads-in-world-first/7122874

Driverless cars 1 - Naysayers 0


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## humandriver

RamzFanz said:


> annnnnnnd, it's over. First driverless vehicle hits the streets in the netherlands.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...-to-dutch-public-roads-in-world-first/7122874
> 
> Driverless cars 1 - Naysayers 0


Why are you on this forum? Stop trolling.


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## RamzFanz

humandriver said:


> Why are you on this forum? Stop trolling.


Don't be upset, you knew it was coming.

Your personal attack and use of the word _trolling_ for a person staying on topic with breaking news in an open forum is ironic. What did your post add to the discussion other than to express butthurt?


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## Dawud13

No wonder Uber is cuting driver wages via outrageous rate cuts. At this pace Uber will phase us drivers out in no time. 

Yea Right... I understand that Uber is a technology company but we are decades away from sanctioned and regulated driverless cars actually operating in large enough fleets to make us drivers obsolete. 

But on the flip side of it all Looks like all us "partners" just got demoted to lackys sand peasants.


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## RamzFanz

Dawud13 said:


> we are decades away from sanctioned and regulated driverless cars actually operating in large enough fleets to make us drivers obsolete.


Decades? Dude, in decades humans won't be on the road at all. Many states already have regulations in legislative bills being debated.


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## RamzFanz

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Yeah...
> I think this is all smoke and mirrors.
> 
> Why would a dispatch only company wish to take on billions in new overhead?
> Take it from one who has tried- fleet ownership and maintenance is for the birds.


The smoke and mirrors is you inventing the idea they have to own the fleet straight out of thin air.


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## humandriver

RamzFanz said:


> The smoke and mirrors is you inventing the idea they have to own the fleet straight out of thin air.


What is the purpose of your post other than to provoke a negative response, that's trolling dude. You're on a DRIVER forum boasting about AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES. None of your circular logic and fancy word play obfuscates your intent. Be gone, troll.


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## RamzFanz

humandriver said:


> What is the purpose of your post other than to provoke a negative response, that's trolling dude. You're on a DRIVER forum boasting about AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES. None of your circular logic and fancy word play obfuscates your intent. Be gone, troll.


Uber drivers should be aware of how soon self driving cars will be here, which is now. It affects them. All of the nonsense that is spewed on here about how it will be decades or not at all only harms the drivers who need to be prepared for the inevitable. Sorry, I'm not playing ostrich with you.


----------



## Major League

It's smoke and mirrors. Most people don't understand what it will take to launch DL cars so remain stupid while Travis sets up investors with bright idea. 

Take a big idea which isn't workable on today's roadways; put limited funds into a research "factory"; get news statements given by factory about the promising outlook and keep getting investment funds. "Factory" goes for ten years with promising research and then fizzles out. All theory, no practicality.

Travis has probably found out how stupid investors are when it comes to tech and figures he can con his way forward.

Either that or he is really that stupid and thinks it will work.

I mean really. Gates has been doing OS's for years. His company and Apple have spent over a quarter of century perfecting user guided computers. They know what it takes and I haven't heard from either company on this in any meaningful way.


----------



## RamzFanz

Major League said:


> Most people don't understand what it will take to launch DL cars so remain stupid while Travis sets up investors with bright idea.


Did you miss the announcement of the first actual self driving car hitting the road in the Netherlands? Perhaps you meant "what it _took_ to launch DL cars...?"

_"Driverless shuttle bus takes to public roads in the Netherlands in world 'milestone'"_

Dude, Google invested $258,000,000 in Uber. Google, who has almost 3,000,000 test miles in self driving cars. Google is saying 2108 for their own SD cars.



Major League said:


> I mean really. Gates has been doing OS's for years. His company and Apple have spent over a quarter of century perfecting user guided computers. They know what it takes and I haven't heard from either company on this in any meaningful way.


Um, both Microsoft and Apple are developing self driving cars, so it's ironic you mentioned them.

_"Following recent revelations that the consumer electronics giant conferred this summer with California self-driving car regulators, the Wall Street Journal reports that Apple is targeting 2019 for the release of an all-electric car."

"Microsoft Is Developing Driverless Car Technology With Volvo"_



Major League said:


> Take a big idea which isn't workable on today's roadways; put limited funds into a research "factory"


Man...what?! What?! Some of the largest tech and auto companies in the world are dropping billions into SD cars and have assembled robotics teams that have gutted universities and companies of the world's best AI and robotic scientists.

These are just the team leaders at the *1 billion dollar* Toyota SDC project:

Head of Google Robotics James Kuffner

Bell Labs department head Larry Jackel

DARPA program manager Eric Krotkov

Rodney Brooks, the former director of the MIT Computer Science and AI Lab

Yann LeCun, the director of artificial intelligence at Facebook

You may want to reconsider your opinion on SD cars.


----------



## tohellwithu

Well I am ready with a hammer, wire cutter and a knife. Moment robotics car shows up will be in action to take revenge on those robotics. Enough abuse from uber and am ready to abuse those robots now


----------



## GooberX

RamzFanz said:


> The smoke and mirrors is you inventing the idea they have to own the fleet straight out of thin air.


Dude, no matter how you slice it, these cars will be expensive to operate and maintain.

If Uber doesn't own them, some OTHER company looking to make a profit will.

It isn't going to happen any time soon.

It is a pipe dream of epic proportions to think that they will lower costs by using autonomous automobiles.

Costs:
Purchase of vehicles
Maintenance
Washes
Interior cleaning regularly
Insurance costs
Storage facility
Staffing of storage facility

Issues:
Passenger/vehicle connection in heavily congested areas
Vehicle overload by passengers
Clean up of vomit and trash after each ride
Sensor failure in middle of ride - Intelligent human and additional vehicle on back up
Technologically challenged passengers wants to change destination mid trip - who will handle it?
Where will cars pick up in areas with no available parking, how will they communicate with passengers?

The list is endless and I have little confidence that Uber is the company that can find the solutions.


----------



## RamzFanz

GooberX said:


> Costs:
> Purchase of vehicles
> Maintenance
> Washes
> Interior cleaning regularly
> Insurance costs
> Storage facility
> Staffing of storage facility


Uber will use OPM, Other People's Money. There are several ways. One is to take loans. The other is to partner with local business people and give them exclusive rights to Uber driverless. Another is to partner with the car manufacturer, just like Lyft and GM. Cost is real, so are the solutions. In fact, cities and states may even offer tax relief and other incentives to reduce cars on the road and CO2 emissions.

People all want to point out the costs but the profit from a driverless car is 80% of an Uber ride. Take what an Uber driver earns in a day and apply it to the car and it easily pays for itself. And that SDC works tirelessly 24 hours a day less charging and maintenance.



GooberX said:


> Issues:
> Passenger/vehicle connection in heavily congested areas
> Vehicle overload by passengers
> Clean up of vomit and trash after each ride
> Sensor failure in middle of ride - Intelligent human and additional vehicle on back up
> Technologically challenged passengers wants to change destination mid trip - who will handle it?
> Where will cars pick up in areas with no available parking, how will they communicate with passengers?


You don't need perfection to introduce a product and service. It's like saying there can be no cell phones unless you have a tower everywhere and asking how they will cover Alaska. You roll out in a technology friendly city, establish pickup spots, establish charging stations, negotiate tax breaks, and demonstrate how it will work. Other cities line up over time.

Most of the roadblocks people throw up are not roadblocks at all. Google has been in R&D for 7 years. Do you think they haven't considered these all along the way?

Vehicle overload - First you use technology to identify overload. Weight being an easy one. EACH pax must have app and sign in with an electronic handshake. You have their weights and you add them up.

Another is infrared video recognition of a person not in a seat. You could also simply review a pic of each ride and charge a hefty fee/deactivate a person who allows an overload.

Clean up of vomit and trash after each ride - You put it on the pax. If a car rolls up, it's on the pax to accept it as clean. If there is trash, you offer the new pax a fee, charged to the previous pax, to throw the trash away. If there is vomit or other liquid / human waste mess, the new pax reports it, the car leaves to be cleaned, another car comes, and the previous pax is charged a cleaning fee. It's not hard.

Sensor failure in middle of ride - Intelligent human and additional vehicle on back up - Sensors are as reliable as they are made. Assuming unreliability is not reasonable. I worked in automation and used sensors all the time. Failure is rare. No need for a human to intervene. You either drop back to your redundant sensor and finish the ride before heading in for repair, or pull over, notify pax, and call a new car.

Technologically challenged passengers wants to change destination mid trip - who will handle it? - Hey car... _yes?_ Take me to ACME Mall instead... _OK._

Where will cars pick up in areas with no available parking, how will they communicate with passengers? - Text? Voice? What do you mean? An SDC can pick up pax just like a taxi or Uber. Not sure why you think they couldn't. The obligation for being at a safe and available pickup spot is on the pax. Either they are or they change spots and re-request. Or they're not and they don't and they don't get a ride.

The list is endless only if you ignore the answers. Did you see that the first SDC is now on the road and in use?


----------



## RamzFanz

tohellwithu said:


> Well I am ready with a hammer, wire cutter and a knife. Moment robotics car shows up will be in action to take revenge on those robotics. Enough abuse from uber and am ready to abuse those robots now


See you in the news.


----------



## GooberX

RamzFanz said:


> Uber will use OPM, Other People's Money. There are several ways. One is to take loans. The other is to partner with local business people and give them exclusive rights to Uber driverless. Another is to partner with the car manufacturer, just like Lyft and GM. Cost is real, so are the solutions. In fact, cities and states may even offer tax relief and other incentives to reduce cars on the road and CO2 emissions.
> 
> People all want to point out the costs but the profit from a driverless car is 80% of an Uber ride. Take what an Uber driver earns in a day and apply it to the car and it easily pays for itself. And that SDC works tirelessly 24 hours a day less charging and maintenance.
> 
> You don't need perfection to introduce a product and service. It's like saying there can be no cell phones unless you have a tower everywhere and asking how they will cover Alaska. You roll out in a technology friendly city, establish pickup spots, establish charging stations, negotiate tax breaks, and demonstrate how it will work. Other cities line up over time.
> 
> Most of the roadblocks people throw up are not roadblocks at all. Google has been in R&D for 7 years. Do you think they haven't considered these all along the way?
> 
> Vehicle overload - First you use technology to identify overload. Weight being an easy one. EACH pax must have app and sign in with an electronic handshake. You have their weights and you add them up.
> 
> Another is infrared video recognition of a person not in a seat. You could also simply review a pic of each ride and charge a hefty fee/deactivate a person who allows an overload.
> 
> Clean up of vomit and trash after each ride - You put it on the pax. If a car rolls up, it's on the pax to accept it as clean. If there is trash, you offer the new pax a fee, charged to the previous pax, to throw the trash away. If there is vomit or other liquid / human waste mess, the new pax reports it, the car leaves to be cleaned, another car comes, and the previous pax is charged a cleaning fee. It's not hard.
> 
> Sensor failure in middle of ride - Intelligent human and additional vehicle on back up - Sensors are as reliable as they are made. Assuming unreliability is not reasonable. I worked in automation and used sensors all the time. Failure is rare. No need for a human to intervene. You either drop back to your redundant sensor and finish the ride before heading in for repair, or pull over, notify pax, and call a new car.
> 
> Technologically challenged passengers wants to change destination mid trip - who will handle it? - Hey car... _yes?_ Take me to ACME Mall instead... _OK._
> 
> Where will cars pick up in areas with no available parking, how will they communicate with passengers? - Text? Voice? What do you mean? An SDC can pick up pax just like a taxi or Uber. Not sure why you think they couldn't. The obligation for being at a safe and available pickup spot is on the pax. Either they are or they change spots and re-request. Or they're not and they don't and they don't get a ride.
> 
> The list is endless only if you ignore the answers. Did you see that the first SDC is now on the road and in use?


The fact that you compare cell phone service roll out to people moving services is enough to file your response int he trash.

Voice recognition software.....yeah ok, right. That should be a continuous feed of jokes.

"The responsibility for being in a safe spot in is on the passenger".......what Utopia of transportation do YOU live in. It isn't sensible to assume that the sensors will fail, BUT it is sensible to assume that the drunks will be where they are supposed to be.

Frankly, I don't care. Time will tell.

In the mean time, welcome home Rams.


----------



## RamzFanz

GooberX said:


> The fact that you compare cell phone service roll out to people moving services is enough to file your response int he trash.
> 
> Voice recognition software.....yeah ok, right. That should be a continuous feed of jokes.
> 
> "The responsibility for being in a safe spot in is on the passenger".......what Utopia of transportation do YOU live in. It isn't sensible to assume that the sensors will fail, BUT it is sensible to assume that the drunks will be where they are supposed to be.
> 
> Frankly, I don't care. Time will tell.
> 
> In the mean time, welcome home Rams.


The fact that you can't grasp a gradual SDC rollout is enough to throw your reply in the trash.

Sensors do fail. That's why you have redundancy. They can find a safe spot or not get a ride, what part don't you get?

Another technologically illiterate opinion heard from. Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation.

Did you miss the announcement? SDC already on the road, fake problems solved.


----------



## observer

There are too many companies working on driverless vehicles to say they aren't happening soon.

It will happen gradually, but it will happen.


----------



## RamzFanz

observer said:


> There are too many companies working on driverless vehicles to say they aren't happening soon.
> 
> It will happen gradually, but it will happen.


I think some people look at SDCs as a novelty or side business while the technology and auto companies look at it like an industry evolution. The combined brain power and investment on a single objective is on par with nothing we've seen since the mission to the moon.


----------



## GooberX

RamzFanz said:


> I think some people look at SDCs as a novelty or side business while the technology and auto companies look at it like an industry evolution. The combined brain power and investment on a single objective is on par with nothing we've seen since the mission to the moon.


No dispute there, however think of the infrastructure that needs to be built to handle autonomous vehicle in transit industry.

You will need stations near venues, no way around that. You will need skilled personnel in remote locations to handle issues, no way around that.

It'll happen, but in transportation my guess is 10 years from now minimum.

But we'll see.


----------



## RamzFanz

GooberX said:


> No dispute there, however think of the infrastructure that needs to be built to handle autonomous vehicle in transit industry.
> 
> You will need stations near venues, no way around that. You will need skilled personnel in remote locations to handle issues, no way around that.
> 
> It'll happen, but in transportation my guess is 10 years from now minimum.
> 
> But we'll see.


Google has almost 3,000,000 miles without any infrastructure changes. I have yet to read any comment by any developers stating they will need infrastructure changes. I've heard this idea stated before but don't know where it comes from other than speculation.

You will need stations near venues? Why is that? When demand increases, cars redistribute to account for demand. They can park anywhere a car can or just circle. Will venues provide or lease a few spots for them? Sure, why not, but it's hardly a real need.

You will need skilled personnel in remote locations to handle issues? Sure you will. Probably regional command centers. Again, how is that a roadblock? Lots of companies have command centers.

The ease and effectiveness of SDCs will be in the level of engineering. Make the interior compartment easily slide out. If you have a mess like vomit, car pulls in, you slide out the interior on rollers, slide in a replacement, back on the road. The dirty interior goes directly from the car into a wash and sanitizing machine, it's ready to go. A sensor goes bad, it pulls in, you undo a clip, hot swap the sensor, back on the road. The day to day operation and maintenance of these systems won't need anything more than entry level technicians that swap parts and send the bad parts off to a repair location. I can envision one mechanic for part swaps like tires, batteries, and motors and one technician at each "garage" with a laborer or two. The cars themselves will be able to self diagnose most system issues and tell the people what they need before they even arrive. We're talking about sophisticated golf carts, not NASCAR.


----------



## observer

RamzFanz said:


> Google has almost 3,000,000 miles without any infrastructure changes. I have yet to read any comment by any developers stating they will need infrastructure changes. I've heard this idea stated before but don't know where it comes from other than speculation.
> 
> You will need stations near venues? Why is that? When demand increases, cars redistribute to account for demand. They can park anywhere a car can or just circle. Will venues provide or lease a few spots for them? Sure, why not, but it's hardly a real need.
> 
> You will need skilled personnel in remote locations to handle issues? Sure you will. Probably regional command centers. Again, how is that a roadblock? Lots of companies have command centers.
> 
> The ease and effectiveness of SDCs will be in the level of engineering. Make the interior compartment easily slide out. If you have a mess like vomit, car pulls in, you slide out the interior on rollers, slide in a replacement, back on the road. The dirty interior goes directly from the car into a wash and sanitizing machine, it's ready to go. A sensor goes bad, it pulls in, you undo a clip, hot swap the sensor, back on the road. The day to day operation and maintenance of these systems won't need anything more than entry level technicians that swap parts and send the bad parts off to a repair location. I can envision one mechanic for part swaps like tires, batteries, and motors and one technician at each "garage" with a laborer or two. The cars themselves will be able to self diagnose most system issues and tell the people what they need before they even arrive. We're talking about sophisticated golf carts, not NASCAR.


Ideally cars will only be stopped to charge for a couple hours. This is when they will be cleaned and inspected.

Once Uber or any other driverless vehicle operator has to pay for vehicles, they will keep them operating with the least amount of down time. They will not have a large amount of excess vehicles because that would cost them money.

Their system will be based on the way successful airlines like Southwest operate.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43768488


----------



## Major League

There's a difference between technology and practicality. LA has 20,000 Uber drivers. Outside of the 3 billion dollar investment to get all those cars on the road just in LA and even if we spread that out over a ten year period it's still a bit of money per year. Not to mention the insurance costs. Not to mention the 20,000 driverless cars to an already busy infrastructure. I've already gone over the practical aspects of this plan so wont go over it again.

But... Let's look at the political aspects. If Uber had the technology today and could hit the road today with DL cars. Over half the drivers currently driving for Uber are minorities. How will the legislatures deal with this. Not sure they want 12,000 displaced workers hitting the dole again. Or angry constituents.


----------



## Major League

RamzFanz said:


> Um, both Microsoft and Apple are developing self driving cars, so it's ironic you mentioned them.
> 
> _"Following recent revelations that the consumer electronics giant conferred this summer with California self-driving car regulators, the Wall Street Journal reports that Apple is targeting 2019 for the release of an all-electric car."
> 
> "Microsoft Is Developing Driverless Car Technology With Volvo"_


Gates on robotics:

Quote: But there's still quite a way to go. Robots "will be benign for quite some time," Gates said. The future of work is not in immediate danger - although the outlook is not good for those who have a high school degree or less.

IMO he's talking about the next generation/s- fifty to a hundred years from now.

Personally, I don't see completely driverless cars in any substantial way for at least 5 decades. IMO companies who want to introduce this tech into our lives will have to invest in new infrastructure. Better put, rebuild Americas roads.


----------



## observer

Major League said:


> There's a difference between technology and practicality. LA has 20,000 Uber drivers. Outside of the 3 billion dollar investment to get all those cars on the road just in LA and even if we spread that out over a ten year period it's still a bit of money per year. Not to mention the insurance costs. Not to mention the 20,000 driverless cars to an already busy infrastructure. I've already gone over the practical aspects of this plan so wont go over it again.
> 
> But... Let's look at the political aspects. If Uber had the technology today and could hit the road today with DL cars. Over half the drivers currently driving for Uber are minorities. How will the legislatures deal with this. Not sure they want 12,000 displaced workers hitting the dole again. Or angry constituents.


I don't think Uber will cut out all drivers. They will phase in driverless cars a little at a time, and slowly cut back on drivers. Then they will use drivers to help during heavy rush periods. All the while cherry picking the best paying rides for Uber.

Vehicles will be used so heavily, I doubt they would last ten years. Uber for all practical purposes is already insuring vehicles, the only difference will be that they will be insuring vehicles they own instead of drivers vehicles.

They won't be adding 20, 000 vehicles, every vehicle they add will replace one with a driver.

As far as the unemployment problem, I agree with you, something needs to be done. Driverless vehicles will impact the economy in untold manners. Unemploying not just drivers but mechanics, car salesmen, car washers, paint and body shops, manufacturer employees, detailers, car rental employees, vehicle transporters, tow companies, ticket writers, parking attendants, valets, parking garages, etc.

Unemployed people won't be able to afford an Uber. Then what?


----------



## Bart McCoy

RamzFanz said:


> Vehicle overload - First you use technology to identify overload. Weight being an easy one. EACH pax must have app and sign in with an electronic handshake. You have their weights and you add them up.
> 
> The obligation for being at a safe and available pickup spot is on the pax. Either they are or they change spots and re-request. Or they're not and they don't and they don't get a ride.


so now, if one person order an uber, and they bring 3 friends, their 3 friends MUST have the Uber app and account? that's not gonna work out too well

pax today order an uber wherever they are, they can careless if its in a no stopping zone

if pax orders a ride letting out at a concert, theres not way to call a computer-driver and ask the computer exactly where they are act, since venues have several different exits. Pax will quickly get frustrated with the hassle of finding their driverless car

not to mention, driverless cars wont be agreessive. meaning traveling in a busy downtown city, will take forever. car wont move unless that crosswalk is totally clear. car wont clear the intersection unless its sure it can get across without being stuck in the middle, meanwhile other cars are being aggressive jumping out there and maybe leaving their tail in the roadway. Pax will hate this



observer said:


> There are too many companies working on driverless vehicles to say they aren't happening soon.
> 
> It will happen gradually, but it will happen.


they are going to happen soon, but for the consumer first. then a long time after that will it work for commercial livery. just way to many variables to contend with dealing with picking people up from any location.

also, you can no longer go anywhere in an uber without knowing the address. You can't tell the uber driver your preferred route, can't just tell the driverless car to go down the street until you recognize building and go where you want

Like, think about the last time you went to 7-11 or the CVS, bet you don't know the address to them, you just know where they are at.... Extra hassle for pax to have to have an address for everything


----------



## observer

Bart McCoy said:


> so now, if one person order an uber, and they bring 3 friends, their 3 friends MUST have the Uber app and account? that's not gonna work out too well
> 
> pax today order an uber wherever they are, they can careless if its in a no stopping zone
> 
> if pax orders a ride letting out at a concert, theres not way to call a computer-driver and ask the computer exactly where they are act, since venues have several different exits. Pax will quickly get frustrated with the hassle of finding their driverless car
> 
> not to mention, driverless cars wont be agreessive. meaning traveling in a busy downtown city, will take forever. car wont move unless that crosswalk is totally clear. car wont clear the intersection unless its sure it can get across without being stuck in the middle, meanwhile other cars are being aggressive jumping out there and maybe leaving their tail in the roadway. Pax will hate this
> 
> they are going to happen soon, but for the consumer first. then a long time after that will it work for commercial livery. just way to many variables to contend with dealing with picking people up from any location.
> 
> also, you can no longer go anywhere in an uber without knowing the address. You can't tell the uber driver your preferred route, can't just tell the driverless car to go down the street until you recognize building and go where you want
> 
> Like, think about the last time you went to 7-11 or the CVS, bet you don't know the address to them, you just know where they are at.... Extra hassle for pax to have to have an address for everything


I agree it will be released to the consumer market first. I wouldn't mind having one now.

It (Max ) could drop off my daughter at school then continue on to my job and drop me off. We both get in at 9 AM and my job is about two miles from her school.

Then Max could go back pick up my youngest son and take him to work at 9:30 drop him off, then pick up my wife and oldest son who both get in at ten and work within two miles of each other.

Between ten thirty and two thirty Max could park in front of my moms where Max would be available to take her to doctors appointments, shopping and other errands.

At two thirty Max could pick up my daughter, drop her and her friend at either our house or her friends house.

Five PM Max picks up my youngest son then myself at five thirty then takes us home.

Seven PM Max picks up my oldest son brings him home, then eight thirtyish picks up my wife and brings her home.

Friday nights Max could drop the wife and I off at a restaurant or club downtown then take the kids a pizza while we dance the night away. Then bout midnite Max picks us up and takes us safely home.

WHERE'S MY MAX! I want it NOW!!!


----------



## observer

observer said:


> I agree it will be released to the consumer market first. I wouldn't mind having one now.
> 
> It (Max ) could drop off my daughter at school then continue on to my job and drop me off. We both get in at 9 AM and my job is about two miles from her school.
> 
> Then Max could go back pick up my youngest son and take him to work at 9:30 drop him off, then pick up my wife and oldest son who both get in at ten and work within two miles of each other.
> 
> Between ten thirty and two thirty Max could park in front of my moms where Max would be available to take her to doctors appointments, shopping and other errands.
> 
> At two thirty Max could pick up my daughter, drop her and her friend at either our house or her friends house.
> 
> Five PM Max picks up my youngest son then myself at five thirty then takes us home.
> 
> Seven PM Max picks up my oldest son brings him home, then eight thirtyish picks up my wife and brings her home.
> 
> Friday nights Max could drop the wife and I off at a restaurant or club downtown then take the kids a pizza while we dance the night away. Then bout midnite Max picks us up and takes us safely home.
> 
> WHERE'S MY MAX! I want it NOW!!!


BTW, even if the vehicle was twice as expensive as a normal car, I would still save money.

Right now we need three cars to achieve the same results, plus my youngest son is getting his license to get his own car.

I would also save on insurance for three cars and you can imagine the insurance bill on my youngest sons vehicle.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

RamzFanz said:


> annnnnnnd, it's over. First driverless vehicle hits the streets in the netherlands.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...-to-dutch-public-roads-in-world-first/7122874
> 
> Driverless cars 1 - Naysayers 0


 " rolling passengers along a 200-metre stretch of road"

Yeah, that's JUST like dodging drunk pedestrians and other drivers at 2am outside the bars...


----------



## RamzFanz

Fuzzyelvis said:


> " rolling passengers along a 200-metre stretch of road"
> 
> Yeah, that's JUST like dodging drunk pedestrians and other drivers at 2am outside the bars...


It's a landmark first driverless vehicle actually on the road YEARS ahead of predictions. It should start dawning on people soon these are coming sooner rather than later. Google is making huge advancements with theirs.


----------



## RamzFanz

Major League said:


> Not to mention the 20,000 driverless cars to an already busy infrastructure.


Driverless cars will reduce congestion, not add. One car carrying several different people in the same time period who are no longer driving.



Major League said:


> Outside of the 3 billion dollar investment to get all those cars on the road just in LA and even if we spread that out over a ten year period it's still a bit of money per year. Not to mention the insurance costs.


3 Billion? That's not even close. The average Uber driver drives 6 hours a week so 1 driverless car replaces up to 28 drivers. Also, the cost is not going to be anywhere near $150,000. $50,000 would be a high estimate even in low production. If the first one has an automaker partner, they may agree to roll them out at or near cost and share the profit from livery. It's been estimated that the electronics package over the cost of a typical car will only be around $5,000 and the base cars will be more like golf carts than cars.



Major League said:


> Personally, I don't see completely driverless cars in any substantial way for at least 5 decades.


Google says 2018 and you say 5 decades. I'm going with Google. I think you're missing that these will be small, electric, low speed, urban specific cars when they start. Good looking golf carts. Exactly what cities need for many reasons. Low emissions, low congestion, high passenger transport efficiency. It won't take long before they increase the speeds and move them to the highways.



observer said:


> Unemployed people won't be able to afford an Uber. Then what?


With every innovation we hear the same predictions. Displaced workers. What people don't take into account is that you add new jobs and lower the cost of living. Walmart displaces some workers while adding others AND supporting businesses that have learned it's beneficial to be near a Walmart. They also lower the cost of living allowing us to live the same on less money. I'm not supporting what Walmart does as a whole, but the naysayers never consider the positive effects when looking at the balance sheet.

A perfect example is car ownership as you touched on (Max). The average US car is in use 5% of the time. ALL that cost to sit. SDC's being used as Max is, as a personal vehicle, or as a TNC you just call as needed, will lower the US cost of living dramatically. We may earn less, but we live the same or even better.


----------



## RamzFanz

Major League said:


> But... Let's look at the political aspects. If Uber had the technology today and could hit the road today with DL cars. Over half the drivers currently driving for Uber are minorities. How will the legislatures deal with this. Not sure they want 12,000 displaced workers hitting the dole again. Or angry constituents.


Politicians in some states may hold up innovation but others will embrace it. People embrace technological progress in most cities and that's where they will start. I really don't see many worrying about 6 hour average a week gig income. Not to mention that you'll be saving lives which is a pretty big deal.


----------



## JMBF831

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head, feel free to address fellas:

-Will the cars run on gas? If so, who is going to fill up the gas tanks?
-Where will the cars be stored? I imagine you would have to create some sort of "parking facility" for the hundreds and hundreds of cars. There are over 100 drivers in my smallish market, imagine a place like San Francisco or New York. How many cars/drivers do you think they will need to replace? Thousands, for sure So then, they will have to park those cars somewhere.
-When a vehicle has to make an illegal pick up, what does it do? Do you program the vehicle to make illegal stops and do illegal things?
-Speaking of programming, let's say there is a scenario where the Driverless vehicle is in a situation where the car in front of them suddenly slammed on it's brakes and the driverless vehicle will inevitably collide, killing the passengers. But, the driverless car has the option to swerve to the left or right but there is a pedestrian and it will kill the pedestrian. How do you program to kill either yourself/passenger, or a pedestrian. What do you program in this instance? Always made me think.
-The obvious, clean up. Pax always leave trash behind, and now that there would be no driver they are going to be even MORE inconsiderate, likely brining food with them and leaving a mess on the seats (food, sauce, etc) for the next pax to hop onto? How do they get around that.
-Costs for them will skyrocket, this should be a no brainer. Yes they don't have to pay the 75% they used to pay us, but they will also have to drop prices yet again, so they aren't really gaining much more. All of their operating expenses will increase so, so much.


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## RamzFanz

We've discussed all of these, but I'll take a stab:



JMBF831 said:


> -Will the cars run on gas? If so, who is going to fill up the gas tanks?


Probably not in fleets. Too many selling points to electric. In personal cars the pax would fill them.



JMBF831 said:


> -Where will the cars be stored? I imagine you would have to create some sort of "parking facility" for the hundreds and hundreds of cars. There are over 100 drivers in my smallish market, imagine a place like San Francisco or New York. How many cars/drivers do you think they will need to replace? Thousands, for sure So then, they will have to park those cars somewhere.


1 SDC can replace about 28 drivers. Of course you will need some extra for surge times so let's say 20 drivers. So in your market, they need 5 SDCs.

More to the point, they can park anywhere you can.



JMBF831 said:


> -When a vehicle has to make an illegal pick up, what does it do? Do you program the vehicle to make illegal stops and do illegal things?


Yes, they are specifically programing them to do illegal things if necessary. An illegal pickup? They may or they may just say no, go somewhere legal and reping.



JMBF831 said:


> -Speaking of programming, let's say there is a scenario where the Driverless vehicle is in a situation where the car in front of them suddenly slammed on it's brakes and the driverless vehicle will inevitably collide, killing the passengers. But, the driverless car has the option to swerve to the left or right but there is a pedestrian and it will kill the pedestrian. How do you program to kill either yourself/passenger, or a pedestrian. What do you program in this instance? Always made me think.


You don't. There is no need for ethical judgments just as there isn't with human driven cars. It's a an interesting but mythological roadblock. Over time as the technology advances, there may be a choice the driver can pre-choose or something, but to start, they will simply protect their passengers. In fact, I would say the answer to these questions will eventually be to eliminate all human driving making these scenarios all but obsolete and saving tens of thousands of lives a year in the US alone. The REAL ethical dilemma a decade from now will be why we allow human divers who are terrible drivers.



JMBF831 said:


> -The obvious, clean up. Pax always leave trash behind, and now that there would be no driver they are going to be even MORE inconsiderate, likely brining food with them and leaving a mess on the seats (food, sauce, etc) for the next pax to hop onto? How do they get around that.


The next pax has to accept the car as clean. If it's not, they get offered a fee to clean it charged to the last pax (video evidence saved). If the pax says no, send it in for cleaning, charge the pax who did it. Send new car.



JMBF831 said:


> -Costs for them will skyrocket, this should be a no brainer. Yes they don't have to pay the 75% they used to pay us, but they will also have to drop prices yet again, so they aren't really gaining much more. All of their operating expenses will increase so, so much.


Why would they drop prices? Operating expenses should plummet as a percentage of gross. A 24 hour a day driver for free? They can make more in a few days than what it costs to purchase and operate them for the month if they are well engineered.

In fairness, I have worked in many related fields so I already have a good idea how systems like this are maintained and what the electronics cost. It's cheap and reliable for the type they will come out with at first.


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## RamzFanz

Bart McCoy said:


> so now, if one person order an uber, and they bring 3 friends, their 3 friends MUST have the Uber app and account? that's not gonna work out too well
> 
> pax today order an uber wherever they are, they can careless if its in a no stopping zone
> 
> if pax orders a ride letting out at a concert, theres not way to call a computer-driver and ask the computer exactly where they are act, since venues have several different exits. Pax will quickly get frustrated with the hassle of finding their driverless car
> 
> not to mention, driverless cars wont be agreessive. meaning traveling in a busy downtown city, will take forever. car wont move unless that crosswalk is totally clear. car wont clear the intersection unless its sure it can get across without being stuck in the middle, meanwhile other cars are being aggressive jumping out there and maybe leaving their tail in the roadway. Pax will hate this


I don't have all of the answers. No one does. All I'm saying is there ARE answers. Maybe several. Some will work, some won't, some will improve over time. For a concert, when they request a car, the app can ask _Meet us at pickup point A nearest to you?_ You reply yes or choose another.

It makes no difference what pax do or don't do today. They aren't some unchangeable behavior or rule. You simply refuse them a car until they comply. You think people will pay surge pricing and won't walk a block? They will do what they have to do for a cheap ride with no waiting.

Actually, they are teaching them to be aggressive when it's appropriate, so saying they won't be is not accurate. Frustrating? Na, what's frustrating is driving in those conditions. When you can sit back and relax and play with your electronics or read a book and ignore the frustrations, our stress is going to plummet in cars. Maybe you will have to plan for a slower trip, that's not a bad thing when you're doing what you want anyways.


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## Michael - Cleveland

RamzFanz is, spot on. *Prediction:* The first real benefical use of autonomous vehicles will be in the long-haul over-the-road (OTR) trucking industry. Longshoreman will be able to load containers onto tandem 18 wheelers and send them off to Walmart stores and Costco warehouses across the country, where they will be unloaded locally. No need to pay a team of drivers for a 24 hour drive - or a single driver for a 3 day haul (+ expenses). Easy, uncomplicated highway routes with very predictable traffic and speed. IMO, Long-Haul drivers will be looking for new work long before taxi and TNC drivers.


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## Bart McCoy

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Long-Haul drivers will be looking for new work long before taxi and TNC drivers.


how so? 18wheeled automated trucks are further along in testing than cars?


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## Michael - Cleveland

Bart McCoy said:


> how so? 18wheeled automated trucks are further along in testing than cars?


Do you see the autonomous driving of trucks on defined highway routes as being more complex as the autonomous driving of passenger vehicles on city and neighborhood streets?


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## Bart McCoy

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Do you see the autonomous driving of trucks on defined highway routes as being more complex as the autonomous driving of passenger vehicles on city and neighborhood streets?


No, but im just curious how 18wheels are gonna surpass cars right quick. Because Of course its much more concern and caution on safety with having large vehicles with severe cargo weight on them traveling with no humans. Backing up into places is gonna hard. Number of times I see big trucks holding up traffic trying maneuver. A driverless car wont even budge unless a crosswalk is super extra clear. This is another instance where a driverless vechilce would have to be aggressive to hold up traffic, instead of using sensors to realize no cars will be coming for the 15min to back into places. Otherwise yeah, they'll be just driving on highways for the must part. But like I said, I bet it'll be tough for all jurisdictions to allow big humanless trucks on the roadway like that. I mean already california regulation is only allowing driverless cars with a huma in them so far,which of course, makes driverless cars pointless. Gonna take a while for it to catch on that govts are 100% sure about autonomous vehicles. We may all be 90 years old before its a common day everywhere thing


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## Michael - Cleveland

I can easily see a driver/crew meeting a big rig at a highway exit and manually driving to the final destintion after it travelled 'alone' for two days. I think the obstacles to over come for big rigs are fewer - and the solutions much easier to implement than they are for passenger vehicles. Designated 'truck-only' lanes on highways being one approach.


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## observer

Article on driverless trucks,

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL3N15407K


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## tohunt4me

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I can easily see a driver/crew meeting a big rig at a highway exit and manually driving to the final destintion after it travelled 'alone' for two days. I think the obstacles to over come for big rigs are fewer - and the solutions much easier to implement than they are for passenger vehicles. Designated 'truck-only' lanes on highways being one approach.


The plan is for corporations to privatize public highways. This has come to light almost 2 decades ago as public knowledge. 
A corridor . . . NAFTA EXPRESS from South America to Canada is envisioned. I see land pirates in the future.


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## Michael - Cleveland

observer said:


> Article on driverless trucks, http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL3N15407K


hehe... thanks for posting. See, Bart McCoy - '_I told you so_!


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## observer

There's been a couple other articles on driverless trucks, I think Volvo has been trying some out in Nevada.

I'll try and find article.


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## observer

Ok, I was wrong it was Daimler testing trucks in Nevada.

http://singularityhub.com/2015/05/0...wheelers-approved-to-cruise-nevadas-highways/

Volvo was testing them in Spain.

http://m.smh.com.au/national/daimle...nsform-trucking-industry-20150819-gj2i04.html


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## observer

There's also some youtube videos but I don't know how to add them here. They basically want to convoy trucks together, spaced 25 feet apart for a 4-6% fuel savings.

Kinda like a train on the highway.


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## Michael - Cleveland

observer said:


> There's also some youtube videos but I don't know how to add them here. They basically want to convoy trucks together, spaced 25 feet apart for a 4-6% fuel savings. Kinda like a train on the highway.


 considering how good and important the technology, it's a really boring vid... skip ahead to 3:45.


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## bezi_NY

JMBF831 said:


> Just a few thoughts off the top of my head, feel free to address fellas:
> 
> -Will the cars run on gas? If so, who is going to fill up the gas tanks?
> -Where will the cars be stored? I imagine you would have to create some sort of "parking facility" for the hundreds and hundreds of cars. There are over 100 drivers in my smallish market, imagine a place like San Francisco or New York. How many cars/drivers do you think they will need to replace? Thousands, for sure So then, they will have to park those cars somewhere.
> -When a vehicle has to make an illegal pick up, what does it do? Do you program the vehicle to make illegal stops and do illegal things?
> -Speaking of programming, let's say there is a scenario where the Driverless vehicle is in a situation where the car in front of them suddenly slammed on it's brakes and the driverless vehicle will inevitably collide, killing the passengers. But, the driverless car has the option to swerve to the left or right but there is a pedestrian and it will kill the pedestrian. How do you program to kill either yourself/passenger, or a pedestrian. What do you program in this instance? Always made me think.
> -The obvious, clean up. Pax always leave trash behind, and now that there would be no driver they are going to be even MORE inconsiderate, likely brining food with them and leaving a mess on the seats (food, sauce, etc) for the next pax to hop onto? How do they get around that.
> -Costs for them will skyrocket, this should be a no brainer. Yes they don't have to pay the 75% they used to pay us, but they will also have to drop prices yet again, so they aren't really gaining much more. All of their operating expenses will increase so, so much.


Totally agree! Ubers driverless cars are nothing but fluf. 
Sitting in the city and I see all these expensive suv's and Uber got them all for a sign on bonus of a few hundred. Imagine that? Risk vs reward. Everyone of us had to go through the process of commercial insurance and registration.. All the leg work! Why in the world would you want to pay for all that overhead? lol such a scammer this Uber is.


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## Hugo

observer said:


> Article on driverless trucks,
> 
> http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL3N15407K


So, the lead vehicle would be manned. This "platooning" concept is somewhat like a high-tech asphalt locomotive, and not fully driverless.


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## Michael - Cleveland

Hugo said:


> So, the lead vehicle would be manned. This "platooning" concept is somewhat like a high-tech asphalt locomotive, and not fully driverless.


This is all just in the very early stages of testing - assumptions are pretty meaningless at this point. Still, if you have a convoy of 12 vehicles and only the 'lead vehicle' is manned (womaned?) the other 11 are still driverless vehicles.


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## Hugo

Michael - Cleveland said:


> This is all just in the very early stages of testing - assumptions are pretty meaningless at this point. Still, if you have a convoy of 12 vehicles and only the 'lead vehicle' is manned (womaned?) the other 11 are still driverless vehicles.


Well, somewhat. According to the article, "A manned front vehicle controls gas and brakes for the others using radio signals." Still, a big step forward and a cool concept. For the short term, what is learned could also be applied towards automotive safety and convenience innovations.


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## observer

Hugo said:


> So, the lead vehicle would be manned. This "platooning" concept is somewhat like a high-tech asphalt locomotive, and not fully driverless.





Michael - Cleveland said:


> This is all just in the very early stages of testing - assumptions are pretty meaningless at this point. Still, if you have a convoy of 12 vehicles and only the 'lead vehicle' is manned (womaned?) the other 11 are still driverless vehicles.


I read somewhere that eventually all driverless vehicles on a freeway will be "platooning" about five feet away from each other.

Mexico City is working on a concept where airborne skilift like pods will shuttle people around using same platooning concept but in the air.


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## phillipzx3

driveLA said:


> Uber is too stupid to pull this off
> 
> They invented a simple app
> 
> Driverless cars is on a whole other level of ingenuity and technology
> 
> Ubers expertise is scamming people not reinventing the car


Uber didn't invent anything. App based dispatching was available two years before Uber was "born." All Uber did is spread money around to politicians in order to change laws allowing them to operate, flood the radio with "Pot of gold" ads, and subsidize rides in order to build a user base.

Lobbying isn't a new concept.


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## Michael - Cleveland

observer said:


> I read somewhere that eventually all driverless vehicles on a freeway will be "platooning" about five feet away from each other.
> 
> Mexico City is working on a concept where airborne skilift like pods will shuttle people around using same platooning concept but in the air.


I'm still waiting for the jetpack I was promised as a kid.


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## observer

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I'm still waiting for the jetpack I was promised as a kid.


It'll get to you about the same time I get my Moller Skycar.


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## observer

Mexico Citys system is actually more like a monorail than ski lift.

http://qz.com/560918/mexico-city-hopes-floating-gondolas-will-beat-its-appalling-traffic/

If and when it is installed it will beat Uber, taxis, buses and subways.

There is no way to truly understand how horrendous traffic is in Mexico City. You have to personally experience it to (un)appreciate it.


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## ChortlingCrison

RamzFanz said:


> Decades? Dude, in decades humans won't be on the road at all. Many states already have regulations in legislative bills being debated.


SCR cars won't be on the road for at least 100 years or more.


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## RamzFanz

ChortlingCrison said:


> SCR cars won't be on the road for at least 100 years or more.


Well, that was random and unsupported. What's a SCR?

*10 Million Self-Driving Cars Will Hit The Road By 2020 -- Here's How To Profit*


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## ChortlingCrison

RamzFanz said:


> Well, that was random and unsupported. What's a SCR?
> 
> *10 Million Self-Driving Cars Will Hit The Road By 2020 -- Here's How To Profit*


OOps. Sorry my mistake. I meant to say SDC (self driving cars). My apologies!


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## Wedgey

ChortlingCrison said:


> OOps. Sorry my mistake. I meant to say SDC (self driving cars). My apologies!


Apology not accepted Klink!!!! BAHHHHHHHHHHH


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## RamzFanz

ChortlingCrison said:


> OOps. Sorry my mistake. I meant to say SDC (self driving cars). My apologies!


100 years for SDCs?

California just announced they are on the their roads now on a limited course which includes public roads. The first ones launched in the Netherlands last May. Step one has come and gone. SDCs are live and carrying passangers.


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## Hugo

RamzFanz said:


> 100 years for SDCs?
> < . . . >
> SDCs are live and carrying passangers.


As has been pointed out elsewhere, these are not 100% self driving cars. They still require a driver.


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## Jermin8r89

SDVs will NOT be world wide! They might take over america and europe but 3rd world countries wont have the stability to sustain them. When robots take over this country moveing to hati with what money i got to start construction buisness.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona

Hugo said:


> As has been pointed out elsewhere, these are not 100% self driving cars. They still require a driver.


All the SDCs I see around here, and there are a bunch, have two people operating the vehicle, not just one.

I'm not worried about losing my job to a robot. How is a robot car going to help the little old ladies with their groceries or walk a blind passenger to their door?


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## Jermin8r89

RamzFanz said:


> Well, that was random and unsupported. What's a SCR?
> 
> *10 Million Self-Driving Cars Will Hit The Road By 2020 -- Here's How To Profit*


But yet factories all over the country still have people makeing boxes,fixing errors by the machiene and assambly lines


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## RamzFanz

Hugo said:


> As has been pointed out elsewhere, these are not 100% self driving cars. They still require a driver.


No, I'm talking about the driverless ones on the roads now. No human controls, live roads, carrying passangers. It's in my blog. It was announced a few days ago in CA but they went live in the Netherlands last May.

https://uberpeople.net/xfa-blog-ent...driving-cars-encroach-on-your-uber-income.82/



Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> All the SDCs I see around here, and there are a bunch, have two people operating the vehicle, not just one.


He's mistaken. There are SDCs on the road now with no humans giving rides.


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## Hugo

RamzFanz said:


> No, I'm talking about the driverless ones on the roads now. No human controls, live roads, carrying passangers. It's in my blog. It was announced a few days ago in CA but they went live in the Netherlands last May.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/xfa-blog-ent...driving-cars-encroach-on-your-uber-income.82/
> 
> He's mistaken. There are SDCs on the road now with no humans giving rides.


Thanks for the link. I had forgotten about those, and maybe for good reason. Here is a small quote:

" . . . drive a restricted route . . . "

We have had something similar in Miami since the 1980s, completely driverless, no human controls, carrying passengers, except that instead of moving on asphalt, they move on rails.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metromover


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## RamzFanz

Hugo said:


> Thanks for the link. I had forgotten about those, and maybe for good reason. Here is a small quote:
> 
> " . . . drive a restricted route . . . "
> 
> We have had something similar in Miami since the 1980s, completely driverless, no human controls, carrying passengers, except that instead of moving on asphalt, they move on rails.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metromover


Yes. They have existed on rails and closed roads. This one does drive a route instead of point to point.

It's still the first driverless vehicle on public roads mixing with human drivers. It's not autonomous (at this point), it's driverless. It's an important step.


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## MissLucy

RamzFanz said:


> Yes. They have existed on rails and closed roads. This one does drive a route instead of point to point.
> 
> It's still the first driverless vehicle on public roads mixing with human drivers. It's not autonomous (at this point), it's driverless. It's an important step.


It's an important step to what. BTW, if uber used driver-less cars, who's going to pay for them? The cars themselves?


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## RamzFanz

MissLucy said:


> It's an important step to what. BTW, if uber used driver-less cars, who's going to pay for them? The cars themselves?


An important step to evolving to point-to-point SDC TNCs.

Apparently Volvo and Daimler (Mercedes) are going to pay for them.


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## crowsandcats

Maybe SDCs, but if Self-driving trucks ever hit the roads, then all the unemployed truck drivers will tank the economy, and this techie wet dream will be over.


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