# Why Drivers Don't Want Uber in-App Tipping



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Am I nuts, trolling, or just being contrary? None of the above. There are some real reasons that no reasonable driver should want Uber to implement in-App tipping. Read on then see if you agree. In-App tipping will result in:

All (or most of) your tips will be reported by Uber to the IRS, that will want it's "cut". Also pay the State and possibly city taxes.

No significant increase in Tips actually received. I've received a few $20+ tips along with $10, $5, $4, $3, $2, and hardly any $1 tips (which embarrasses most PAX who give tips) driving for Uber. Lyft drivers, who already have in-App tipping, report an average tip of only $1 per ride. https://uberpeople.net/threads/actual-in-app-tips-recieved.159389/
The Uber tipping feature is unlikely to offer the PAX any easy way to give their driver a 5%, 10%, 15% or 20% tip, the way they normally would in a restaurant.

Uber may use any change (forced or not) in its tipping policy to justify a further decrease in driver pay.
Incorrect rating of PAX. An Uber PAX that gives me a tip is almost guaranteed a 5-star rating. With in-App tipping, I cannot know which PAX actually tips or not until long after the ride ends and I give my rating. I am too busy (lazy) to later change that rating after checking if that PAX tipped.

The NYC-TLC (New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission), which appears to be the first to successfully force Uber to provide in-App tipping, has politically supported taxi drivers (who hate Uber) for many years. They have promoted this action to screw with Uber and increase tax revenue, not to benefit Uber drivers, who will now be forced to pay taxes to both NYC and State on their tips too.
No change to the "inequality" issue, where two drivers, transporting the same PAX on the same route receive different tips.
If Uber were smart, they would change their policy to adjust to the new political reality. Entourage, instead of discouraging, PAX to tip drivers. That would be a strong argument to prevent Uber from being forced to add in-App tipping nationwide after they do it in NYC.

*Please reply if you still disagree or there are other reasons that I have missed.

Please take the poll, or consider changing your vote, AFTER rethinking your prior position.*


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Maven said:


> *Please reply if you still disagree or there are other reasons that I have missed.*


I may have missed it in your excellent list, but I feel that Uber at some stage will probably think that 20%+ (or whatever you're on) of ANY money changing hands via the app belongs to them for providing the rider with such an excellent app.
Maybe not at first, but....


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Cash tips are nice.

I think Drivers are angry because Uber actively discouraged tipping.

A year ago I was almost always tipped for bus,train ,or airport destinations.
Used to be tipped whenever I handled baggage
Now,hardly ever
The cruise ships still tip.
The ships encourage tipping.
Tips are mandatory and taken from passenger accounts DAILY on the ships. They are well trained when I get them off of the ships !

A year and a half ago,I could pay for my gas and meals off of tips.
Now,$3.00-$5.00 a day for 30-40 rides is average.
Travis ruined it.
It will never recover now.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Given the introduction to your post, I say you're trolling. "no reasonable driver should want Uber to implement in-App tipping" - just because someone disagrees, doesn't make then unreasonable.



Maven said:


> All (or most of) your tips will be reported by Uber to the IRS, that will want it's "cut". Also pay the State and possibly city taxes.


Because paying taxes is a bad thing?



Maven said:


> No change to the "inequality" issue, where two drivers, transporting the same PAX on the same route receive different tips.


This is BS on a stick. Equal opportunity? Sure. Equal outcome? Hells to the NO.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Lowestformofwit said:


> I may have missed it in your excellent list, but I feel that Uber at some stage will probably think that 20%+ (or whatever you're on) of ANY money changing hands via the app belongs to them for providing the rider with such an excellent app.
> Maybe not at first, but....


They lost a lawsuit over exactly this.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

The reason is think in-app tipping is necessary is because it will automatically change their view on tipping Uber drivers. Those who think that they're not supposed to tip or that it's included, will know that tipping is allowed and obviously not included.
I think this is the best and most effective way for pax to get the message.


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## Robinhood (May 7, 2015)

Can't believe you posted this mumbo jumbo. increased income and any increased taxes that may come with that can be offset by increased business expenses. Don't fight the tip, just let it slide.


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## Veju (Apr 17, 2017)

I'd rather pay taxes on tips then not get tips and pay no tax. I'm driving on tax funded roads and would expect the police and emergency services to rescue me if I was involved in a crash, why shouldn't I pay my fair share?


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

First of all, you can't be a troll if you call yourself a troll.

Secondly, even if just $1 was tipped, I would have more than $3,000 in my account from tips alone since I have over 3,000 5-stars. 

Taxes? I live in Texas. No state Tax. Federal? meh, pretty sure my dead miles will cancel out my income. #ifyourpayingtaxesyouruberingwrong


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Maven said:


> All (or most of) your tips will be reported by Uber to the IRS, that will want it's "cut". Also pay the State and possibly city taxes.


True, but here is what you are overlooking. Even if you pay 15-20% tax on the tips, that is on tip money you probably would not have received if no tip app. I would rather get 85% (net after taxes) of something than 100% of nothing.


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## Andrew22383 (Apr 24, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Cash tips are nice.
> 
> I think Drivers are angry because Uber actively discouraged tipping.
> 
> ...


Nice post sincerely.* I'm just curious why everyone says Uber discourages tipping? *Seriously, besides drivers who don't value a buck telling drivers, _"tips aren't required,"_ the only thing I've heard is the CEO saying the same publicly. Maybe this is how dumb society has gotten or something cause if you ask any server or manager if tips are required they would respond exactly same way uber CEO did. However society still knows to tip servers! Point being, is it really due to a-hole drivers and a comment the CEO of uber made about tips not being required *WHY *most riders and customers w/ EATS do not tip? Or is there other marketing/advertisements riders and/or drivers are seeing regularly saying tips are frowned upon?

As for the poll, I really like Maven's argument. As mentioned before, the only reason I'd welcome tip on the app is to get these riders & customers w/ EATs to start tipping. However, I'd rather see Uber mentioning tips get better ratings instead of allowing riders to see ratings. If a non tipper saw he didn't get 5 stars from me, then you know they'll return the favor w/ a 1star. I much rather see uber encourage cash tips, and not allow PAX to see ratings.

Personally, it's kinda of funny to me seeing a lot of young progressives in major cities who love Bernie Sanders and socialism, yet don't tip lol... I seriously get better tip rate out in BFE knowing most riders, as geographical stats have shown, are conservative. Not saying every conservative/capatilist tips or every liberal doesn't, just the average is better. Haven't been driving long, just this past year and found that interesting.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Getting 85% of your tip is a LOT better than getting 0% of ZERO...


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> True, but here is what you are overlooking. Even if you pay 15-20% tax on the tips, that is on tip money you probably would not have received if no tip app. I would rather get 85% (net after taxes) of something than 100% of nothing.





Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Getting 85% of your tip is a LOT better than getting 0% of ZERO...


You guys sure are lucky.. any tips or bonuses are more heavily taxed in my state for some reason. So a 2000 bonus really is a little over 1100 

But that's still better then zero

As long as the added tips don't push you into a higher tax bracket that disqualifies you for certain assistance... unless you don't care about that then sure.

I still think cash is king
Although I would also agree giving the tip option in the app will re enforce the idea that uber fare doesn't include tip..


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

Robinhood said:


> Don't fight the tip, just let it slide.


This means two things


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> The reason is think in-app tipping is necessary is because it will automatically change their view on tipping Uber drivers. Those who think that they're not supposed to tip or that it's included, will know that tipping is allowed and obviously not included.
> I think this is the best and most effective way for pax to get the message.


So I guess you didn't like the fact that Uber changed TIPS ARE INCLUDED to TIPS ARE NOT INCLUDED BUT NOT REQUIRED OR EXPECTED which IMO is equally as bad if not worse lol



Andrew22383 said:


> Nice post sincerely.* I'm just curious why everyone says Uber discourages tipping? *Seriously, besides drivers who don't value a buck telling drivers, _"tips aren't required,"_ the only thing I've heard is the CEO saying the same publicly. Maybe this is how dumb society has gotten or something cause if you ask any server or manager if tips are required they would respond exactly same way uber CEO did. However society still knows to tip servers! Point being, is it really due to a-hole drivers and a comment the CEO of uber made about tips not being required *WHY *most riders and customers w/ EATS do not tip? Or is there other marketing/advertisements riders and/or drivers are seeing regularly saying tips are frowned upon?
> 
> As for the poll, I really like Maven's argument. As mentioned before, the only reason I'd welcome tip on the app is to get these riders & customers w/ EATs to start tipping. However, I'd rather see Uber mentioning tips get better ratings instead of allowing riders to see ratings. If a non tipper saw he didn't get 5 stars from me, then you know they'll return the favor w/ a 1star. I much rather see uber encourage cash tips, and not allow PAX to see ratings.
> 
> Personally, it's kinda of funny to me seeing a lot of young progressives in major cities who love Bernie Sanders and socialism, yet don't tip lol... I seriously get better tip rate out in BFE knowing most riders, as geographical stats have shown, are conservative. Not saying every conservative/capatilist tips or every liberal doesn't, just the average is better. Haven't been driving long, just this past year and found that interesting.


The only reason I wouldn't want it is that it would flood the market with drivers who quit or stopped driving thinking that this is a career changing event, so yeah I will get some, SOME tips, but now business will tank cause there will be 8 X cars and 8 lux cars around a 1/2 mile radius of me 24/7 at least in the beginning.

I still want it anyway, but the real issue and real game changer is the change in rates, which of course will create the same problems.

I do think Uber will make a change and both raise rates and add a tipping feature in 2017 however I fear it will come at a cost of raising commissions to like 30 or 35%.

I have worked for companies before, and for example they will claim we will make more money by changing the commission structure, but my paycheck always got smaller. I think Uber will do the same, raise rates, and add a tipping feature, but take away more in commissions.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Andrew22383 said:


> Nice post sincerely.* I'm just curious why everyone says Uber discourages tipping? *.


Because they do! First of all, a lot of passengers don't even consider tipping because they think that it's already included, which is something Uber lied about early on.
But even now, why would you say tipping is not required. Of course it's not required. Everyone knows this. I am not required to tip the pizza delivery guy, or my waitress at Applebee's. But I do. But guess what. If I walked into Applebee's and the menu said "tipping your waitress is not required", I might not tip her. I might think, maybe she's making a commission off the food she sells me. Or maybe they got big raises. Just the fact that it's being said discourages tipping.



sellkatsell44 said:


> I still think cash is king
> Although I would also agree giving the tip option in the app will re enforce the idea that uber fare doesn't include tip..


I like the way you think!



Grahamcracker said:


> This means two things


HA!



Kodyhead said:


> So I guess you didn't like the fact that Uber changed TIPS ARE INCLUDED to TIPS ARE NOT INCLUDED BUT NOT REQUIRED OR EXPECTED which IMO is equally as bad if not worse lol
> 
> .


+1


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## Ride-Share-Risk-Manager (Mar 16, 2017)

I agree that the tipping option in the app will at least put passengers in the mindset that they should consider tipping. As other drivers have said, 60% or 85% of your tips after tax is better than zero. The cash tips are definitely eroded on longer trips in Uber as passengers do want to put the tip on their card and see it as a single line item expense ( that many times they are submitting for reimbursement at work). However, I see that virtually all passengers on Lyft who do airport runs or into NYC do tip at least 15%.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> As long as the added tips don't push you into a higher tax bracket that disqualifies you for certain assistance...


Not directed at you... just a tangent vent. How sad is it that our society has created a system where people are afraid of working harder to make a little more because they fear having wellfare taken from them.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

I think it's safe to go ahead and change the name of this thread to "Why drivers want in-app tipping" or "Why Maven doesn't want in-app tipping"


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> I think it's safe to go ahead and change the name of this thread to "Why drivers want in-app tipping" or "Why Maven doesn't want in-app tipping"


How do you change a thread title, anyway? What I want is for Uber to encourage instead of discourage tipping. Uber's recent change was going from completely discouraging to only somewhat discouraging, not nearly enough. If adding in-App tipping is the only way to get Uber to encourage tipping then I can live with it, despite the downsides.


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## Andrew22383 (Apr 24, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> Because they do! First of all, a lot of passengers don't even consider tipping because they think that it's already included, which is something Uber lied about early on.
> But even now, why would you say tipping is not required. Of course it's not required. Everyone knows this. I am not required to tip the pizza delivery guy, or my waitress at Applebee's. But I do. But guess what. If I walked into Applebee's and the menu said "tipping your waitress is not required", I might not tip her. I might think, maybe she's making a commission off the food she sells me. Or maybe they got big raises. Just the fact that it's being said discourages tipping.
> 
> I like the way you think!
> ...


Any moron who didn't tip a server b/c he read it wasn't required be shunned from society lol

That's my point! Everyone knows tips aren't required. That's why it's called a tip! Society has gone r e t a r d e d lol


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Andrew22383 said:


> Any moron who didn't tip a server b/c he read it wasn't required be shunned from society lol


And from using Uber ever again!


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Andrew22383 said:


> Any moron who didn't tip a server b/c he read it wasn't required be shunned from society lol
> 
> That's my point! Everyone knows tips aren't required. That's why it's called a tip! Society has gone r e t a r d e d lol


I agree but even if the food was terrible i often tip anyway since it is usually not the servers fault. Also unless the server is way out of line on something but just seemed inexperienced or just stupid, i would still tip maybe a little less at 12%. I think that is the norm.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

NorCalPhil said:


> Not directed at you... just a tangent vent. How sad is it that our society has created a system where people are afraid of working harder to make a little more because they fear having wellfare taken from them.


That's okay. I'm not taking it personal bc it's not applicable to me.

Although, I have helped many folks that would never keep more then 2k in the bank because they didn't want to lose out on govt money (ss?) or something like that


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

NorCalPhil said:


> Not directed at you... just a tangent vent. How sad is it that our society has created a system where people are afraid of working harder to make a little more because they fear having wellfare taken from them.


A smart government will only take a small part (less than 50% after taxes) of the "welfare" away specifically to minimize the disincentive to get off welfare and honestly report new income. In this way, for every additional $2 earned, a welfare recipient keeps at least $1.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Andrew22383 said:


> Nice post sincerely.* I'm just curious why everyone says Uber discourages tipping? *Seriously, besides drivers who don't value a buck telling drivers, _"tips aren't required,"_ the only thing I've heard is the CEO saying the same publicly. Maybe this is how dumb society has gotten or something cause if you ask any server or manager if tips are required they would respond exactly same way uber CEO did. However society still knows to tip servers! Point being, is it really due to a-hole drivers and a comment the CEO of uber made about tips not being required *WHY *most riders and customers w/ EATS do not tip? Or is there other marketing/advertisements riders and/or drivers are seeing regularly saying tips are frowned upon?
> 
> As for the poll, I really like Maven's argument. As mentioned before, the only reason I'd welcome tip on the app is to get these riders & customers w/ EATs to start tipping. However, I'd rather see Uber mentioning tips get better ratings instead of allowing riders to see ratings. If a non tipper saw he didn't get 5 stars from me, then you know they'll return the favor w/ a 1star. I much rather see uber encourage cash tips, and not allow PAX to see ratings.
> 
> Personally, it's kinda of funny to me seeing a lot of young progressives in major cities who love Bernie Sanders and socialism, yet don't tip lol... I seriously get better tip rate out in BFE knowing most riders, as geographical stats have shown, are conservative. Not saying every conservative/capatilist tips or every liberal doesn't, just the average is better. Haven't been driving long, just this past year and found that interesting.


Passengers will see their ratings drop, and wonder why. A simple Google search will show that their ratings drop when they don't tip. 
The business traveler will worry that no one will accept their ride at 4 am and the consequence of having a bad Uber rating would be missing a flight. 99% of drivers give 5 stars for a tip, even if they don't behave well.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Andrew22383 said:


> Any moron who didn't tip a server b/c he read it wasn't required be shunned from society lol
> 
> That's my point! Everyone knows tips aren't required. That's why it's called a tip! Society has gone r e t a r d e d lol


To be fair in many countries, tips are included in their bill,and is also labeled on the check, so it is easy to think this happens when they are on vacation here.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> Passengers will see their ratings drop, and wonder why. A simple Google search will show that their ratings drop when they don't tip.
> The business traveler will worry that no one will accept their ride at 4 am and the consequence of having a bad Uber rating would be missing a flight. 99% of drivers give 5 stars for a tip, even if they don't behave well.


Yes but I also think the system is flawed in a way that PAX will value a rating number differently than a driver would.

For example you may look at a 4.31 rating out of 5 as a terrible rating of a driver, and I would agree. There is an explanation either right or wrong on why this pax is rated low, and it might be fair or unfair or the pax just might be a prick

But if you were choosing a restaurant on vacation, and saw a 4.31 and maybe I eat way too much food, but I would absolutely eat at a restaurant with a 4.31 rating wouldn't you? Or a movie or tv show with a 4.31 rating, I would gamble on to watch in a theatre. So a pax can look at this rating and think it ain't that bad, and even if an uber driver told them that it was bad, and mentions tipping, just shrugs them off like a addict begging for change at a traffic light.

I also think in most cities people don't miss rides, and with saturation there is always people on uber that just accept every call and there is always something called a cab, and I assure you that they will take that guy to an airport.


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

Uber tells us tips are bad unions are worse and we make "life changing money" and many drivers actually believe it.


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