# Do I actually need to inform my insurance company that I work this job now?



## Urbanappalachian (Dec 11, 2016)

Am I required to get more insurance when I started doing this job? It's not like Lyft or Uber ever advised me to do so, so I stuck with whatever insurance amount I always had.


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## Skorpio (Oct 17, 2017)

Most insurance dont have rideshare policy. 
Some will only allow up to 20 hours/month.

Its you planning to drive more than that, research for a insurance company that will fully cover you.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Urbanappalachian said:


> Am I required to get more insurance when I started doing this job? It's not like Lyft or Uber ever advised me to do so, so I stuck with whatever insurance amount I always had.


Read your personal policy very carefully and thoroughly. The answer will be there where they explain how making false statements or omitting pertinent facts, or failure to report changes in the use of an insured vehicle in order to obtain or maintain coverage, may be considered fraud. Also read the parts that tell what is excluded from coverage.

Also, look at the statements from Uber/Raiser about the coverage they provide in your state for yourself and your car. If your personal policy doesn't specifically cover for hire driving and you are at fault in an accident, you may be left holding the bag and financially ruined.

https://www.uber.com/newsroom/certificates-of-insurance-u-s-ridesharing/


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Read your personal policy very carefully and thoroughly. The answer will be there where they explain how making false statements or omitting pertinent facts, or failure to report changes in the use of an insured vehicle in order to obtain or maintain coverage, may be considered fraud. Also read the parts that tell what is excluded from coverage.
> 
> Also, look at the statements from Uber/Raiser about the coverage they provide in your state for yourself and your car. If your personal policy doesn't specifically cover for hire driving and you are at fault in an accident, you may be left holding the bag and financially ruined.
> 
> https://www.uber.com/newsroom/certificates-of-insurance-u-s-ridesharing/


Your car could get totaled and you could get nothing, and still be stuck paying off every dime you owe on the car.

Specifically in case your wondering..

But both uber and lyft _*both allow you*_ to use an insurance policy that does *not allow you to do ridesharing.*



Urbanappalachian said:


> Am I required to get more insurance when I started doing this job? It's not like Lyft or Uber ever advised me to do so, so I stuck with whatever insurance amount I always had.


The answer to your question is no..

either you have a policy allowing ride sharing, in which case there's no need to tell them.

Or your insurance policy DOESN'T allow ride sharing, in which case if you tell them, you won't have insurance anymore...


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## Urbanappalachian (Dec 11, 2016)

so us full timers are screwed?



Skorpio said:


> Most insurance dont have rideshare policy.
> Some will only allow up to 20 hours/month.
> 
> Its you planning to drive more than that, research for a insurance company that will fully cover you.


Doesn't Uber and Lyft have their own insurance to protect their end and as well as the drivers and passengers?



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Your car could get totaled and you could get nothing, and still be stuck paying off every dime you owe on the car.
> 
> Specifically in case your wondering..
> 
> ...


Rideshare is so new that I don't even think my insurance even covered it per se, just simply anyone in the car is technically covered. I'd have to look deeper...



Older Chauffeur said:


> Read your personal policy very carefully and thoroughly. The answer will be there where they explain how making false statements or omitting pertinent facts, or failure to report changes in the use of an insured vehicle in order to obtain or maintain coverage, may be considered fraud. Also read the parts that tell what is excluded from coverage.
> 
> Also, look at the statements from Uber/Raiser about the coverage they provide in your state for yourself and your car. If your personal policy doesn't specifically cover for hire driving and you are at fault in an accident, you may be left holding the bag and financially ruined.
> 
> https://www.uber.com/newsroom/certificates-of-insurance-u-s-ridesharing/


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## Skorpio (Oct 17, 2017)

Your personal insurance might not cover if they know you doing Uber.

I have the same insurance company as Uber for my personal insurance.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

UberBeamer said:


> think where most people are missing the boat here is the difference between comprehensive (full) coverage and liability coverage. Uber/Lyft's insurance is liability coverage on top of your own policy. If your policy is not comprehensive then if you damage your own vehicle/injure yourself or you're hit by an uninsured motorist, you're basically hosed. Even if you do have a comprehensive policy and your insurance company decides not to honor the claim because of a policy violation...you guessed it...hosed.


You have a very common misconception of what Comprehensive Insurance is. It doesn't mean "full coverage" but rather refers to coverage for damage not caused by collision. Comprehensive covers damage over which you have no control, like acts of nature (hail, falling trees, cracked windshield) and fire and theft. The also common term "full coverage" is a misnomer when it comes to insurance due to the deductibles that may apply, depending on how the damage was incurred.
You can Google it, but at one time I was licensed to write fire and casualty insurance.
Also, I believe Uber/Raiser covers the driver and pax in the event an accident is caused by an uninsured/underinsured driver. That's what their certificate of insurance indicates.



Urbanappalachian said:


> Doesn't Uber and Lyft have their own insurance to protect their end and as well as the drivers and passengers?


Uber/Raiser covers you for liability in varying amounts depending on circumstances. They cover your passengers and third parties if you are at fault, but they don't cover you for injuries. If you carry collision and your insurers deny coverage, they may fix your car with a high deductible.


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## Urbanappalachian (Dec 11, 2016)

So which insurance should I be looking into? Who's Uber's insurance company? Any idea who's Lyft's?

I did sign up for Uber's Personal Inury Protection insurance via Aon? It's only active when the app is on and when I'm with a passenger. I would think I'm technically covered here but IF my personal insurance "finds out" I do Uber (and Lyft), I'm not sure exactly how they would feel about it even though Uber technically covers me (as far as personal injury protection is concerned). I shall look more into this and maybe I may be the one to drop my insurance of almost 10 years!

According to Lyft when driver mode is off:

"Your personal insurance is your insurance policy".

It's a no-brainer considering everyone requires their own insurance. Doesn't that technically mean that when driver mode is on, Lyft (and or Uber) covers drivers and passengers? I don't get why would my personal insurance have any problem with anyone doing rideshare under their policy (or allow "20 hours only") when in all technicality the rideshare companies covers drivers and passengers? I've just read through it and not as complicated as you guys are making it seem. It's as simple as renting a car from Hertz (their insurance covers you as well as your own).



Skorpio said:


> Your personal insurance might not cover if they know you doing Uber.
> 
> I have the same insurance company as Uber for my personal insurance.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Urbanappalachian said:


> According to Lyft when driver mode is off:
> 
> "Your personal insurance is your insurance policy".
> 
> It's a no-brainer considering everyone requires their own insurance. Doesn't that technically mean that when driver mode is on, Lyft (and or Uber) covers drivers and passengers? I don't get why would my personal insurance have any problem with anyone doing rideshare under their policy (or allow "20 hours only") when in all technicality the rideshare companies covers drivers and passengers? I've just read through it and not as complicated as you guys are making it seem. It's as simple as renting a car from Hertz (their insurance covers you as well as your own).


Not so fast...

Uber only provides LIABILITY COVERAGE WHEN NEEDED if you are online but not driving a customer.

However when you are ONLINE in several states your personal insurance (standard policies anyway) completely shut off. (if your policy says they won't cover you for commercial activities this is you.

That' means that there's no coverage FOR YOUR CAR if you get into an accident and you are at fault, or the other driver flees the scene, or you have "joint/shared fault" (don't think that's the right term)

This is a MASSIVE GAP.

Whenever you are logged in, but not driving with or to a customer, there may technically be no coverage for your vehicle...

You are essentially driving around with "Liability only" coverage during several phases of working.

(giving florida an example that i Know)

The insurance companies have the power to inquire about when you are online for the sole purpose of determining coverage limits, and they are legally entitled to deny coverage ANY TIME you are ONLINE (at all)

Uber on the other hand is Liability only from the time you go online or drop off (or a trip cancels) until you accept another trip or go offline.

That's a pretty big hole...


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

2.3 Your Relationship with Users. You acknowledge and agree that your provision of Transportation Services to Users creates a direct business relationship between you and the User. Company is not responsible or liable for the actions or inactions of a User in relation to you, your activities or
your Vehicle. *You shall have the sole responsibility for any obligations or liabilities to Users or third parties that arise from your provision of Transportation Services. You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for taking such precautions as may be reasonable and proper (including maintaining adequate insurance that meets the requirements of all applicable
laws including motor vehicle financial responsibility laws) regarding any acts or omissions of a User or third party. You acknowledge and agree that Company may release your contact and/or insurance information to a User upon such User's reasonable request. *You acknowledge and agree that, unless specifically consented to by a User, you may not transport or allow inside your
Vehicle individuals other than a User and any individuals authorized by such User, during the performance of Transportation Services for such User. You acknowledge and agree that all Users should be transported directly to their specified destination, as directed by the applicable User,
without unauthorized interruption or unauthorized stops.

Section 8 is all about insurance. If you haven't read your Driver Contract, which I wouldn't be surprised, I suggest you brush up on these key points below:

8.1 *You agree to maintain during the term of this Agreement on all Vehicles operated by you under this Agreement automobile liability insurance that provides protection against bodily injury and property damage to third parties at levels of coverage that satisfy the minimum requirements to operate a private passenger vehicle on the public roads within the Territory.* This coverage must also include any no-fault coverage required by law in the Territory that may not be waived by an insured. You agree to provide Company and its Affiliates a copy of the insurance policy, policy declarations, proof of insurance identification card and proof of premium payment for the insurance policy required in this Section 8.1 upon request. Furthermore, you must provide Company with written notice of cancellation of any insurance policy required by Company. Company shall have no right to control your selection or maintenance of your policy. You must be a named insured or individually rated driver, for which a premium is charged, on the insurance policy required in this Section 8.1 at all times.

8.3 *You understand and acknowledge that your personal automobile insurance policy may not afford liability, comprehensive, collision, medical payments, personal injury protection, uninsured motorist, underinsured motorist, or other coverage for the Transportation Services you provide pursuant to this Agreement. If you have any questions or concerns about the scope or applicability of your own insurance coverage, it is your responsibility, not that of Company, to resolve them with your insurer(s).*

8.4 Company may maintain during the term of this Agreement insurance related to your provision of Transportation Services as determined by Company in its reasonable discretion or as described in a City Addendum, *provided that Company and its Affiliates are not required to provide you with any specific insurance coverage for any loss to you or your Vehicle*. You are required to promptly notify Company of any accidents that occur while providing Transportation Services and to cooperate and provide all necessary information related thereto.

Assuming you haven't read your contract, which we've already established, I'm sure you also haven't read your state addendum

This is the wording in the TX addendum and my GA one previously was similar.

2. REQUIRED NOTICES. Company is required by law to make you aware of, and you must acknowledge, the following statutory requirements in the state of Texas: *Your personal automobile insurance policy may not provide coverage, depending on the policy's terms, while the you are logged on to the company's digital network and are available to receive transportation requests or is engaged in a prearranged ride.*

3. YOUR INSURANCE. *Company may at any time verify or obtain proof of insurance and other policy information*

That last part are for those naysayers that like to blame Uber for everything, even to say that Uber never warned them about possibly losing insurance coverage for doing Rideshare. They only believe this because 95% of Uber drivers have never even read one line of their Driver Contract.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> But both uber and lyft _*both allow you*_ to use an insurance policy that does *not allow you to do ridesharing.*


Uber allows the driver to receive requests as long as they have proof of State minimum required insurance. Some states only require liability and Uber accepts that.

It is a contractors responsibility to make sure that their equipment is adequately insured within the terms of their insurer's policy. Uber has nothing to do with that contractural relationship. The important things are covered: the pax and anything you hit (Liability). Your medical bills and equipment is your responsibility (Comprehensive).



Urbanappalachian said:


> So which insurance should I be looking into? Who's Uber's insurance company? Any idea who's Lyft's?
> 
> I did sign up for Uber's Personal Inury Protection insurance via Aon? It's only active when the app is on and when I'm with a passenger. I would think I'm technically covered here but IF my personal insurance "finds out" I do Uber (and Lyft), I'm not sure exactly how they would feel about it even though Uber technically covers me (as far as personal injury protection is concerned). I shall look more into this and maybe I may be the one to drop my insurance of almost 10 years!
> 
> ...


I don't know Lyfts policy, only Uber. They offer CONTINGENT Collision coverage when app is on.

https://www.uber.com/drive/insurance/
*Contingent collision and comprehensive coverage*
This insurance covers your vehicle in case of an accident whether it was your fault or not, *as long as you maintain auto insurance that includes collision coverage for that vehicle* while not on an Uber trip. The coverage amount is up to the actual cash value of your vehicle. There is a $1,000 deductible.

So if your personal insurance company was not made aware of your Rideshare activity and they have a problem with that, they can void your policy. If your policy is void and cancelled, then you no longer meet the criteria for "*maintain[ing] auto insurance that includes collision coverage for that vehicle*" above.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> 2.3 Your Relationship with Users. You acknowledge and agree that your provision of Transportation Services to Users creates a direct business relationship between you and the User. Company is not responsible or liable for the actions or inactions of a User in relation to you, your activities or
> your Vehicle. *You shall have the sole responsibility for any obligations or liabilities to Users or third parties that arise from your provision of Transportation Services. You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for taking such precautions as may be reasonable and proper (including maintaining adequate insurance that meets the requirements of all applicable
> laws including motor vehicle financial responsibility laws) regarding any acts or omissions of a User or third party. You acknowledge and agree that Company may release your contact and/or insurance information to a User upon such User's reasonable request. *You acknowledge and agree that, unless specifically consented to by a User, you may not transport or allow inside your
> Vehicle individuals other than a User and any individuals authorized by such User, during the performance of Transportation Services for such User. You acknowledge and agree that all Users should be transported directly to their specified destination, as directed by the applicable User,
> ...


You know that 90% of TNC drivers can't even comprehend any part of your post.

To the 90% of drivers that don't understand this awesome post by steveK2016.

You are on your own. Uber has no liability whatsoever to assist you in any way with the financial responsibility of your state's For Hire/Commercial Driving Laws. If you don't know if you're insured then there's a 99.9% chance that you're not insured.


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## Taxi tony (Oct 10, 2017)

Here it is plain and simple. When you apply for a personal insurance policy most agents will ask you "what are you going to use the car for".
Most people will respond, back and forth to work, groceries, doctor's office, basic everyday personal use.
Now, as soon as you put that Uber and Lyft sticker in your window you are violating the terms of your personal insurance policy. Your vehicle becomes a commercial vehicle, because it is your intent to make money with your vehicle. That right there is a violation of the terms of your policy, and would be significant grounds for your insurance company to denied any claim that you attempt to submit to them. And in most cases would be followed up by a cancellation notice. So in summary, Uber insurance is pretty much only there to protect the customer.
Remember, you are a subcontractor. It is your responsibility to know what is required of you to perform your job.
Uber is not going to provide this information to you, if they did they would have no drivers.
In Western New York there is no ride-sharing insurance offered by any insurance company, or what they refer to as gap insurance. Any type of accident can result in a world of lawsuits, property damage claims, personal injury claims, and a host of other unwanted troubles that you will be taking on if you attempt to do this without a commercial insurance policy.
Do a little research before you put that sticker on your window.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

I have Geico Commercial Rideshare insurance. It's cheaper than personal insurance. I think you should see if they have that in your state.


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

I go commando. I got nothing to take that isn't attached to my body


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## Taxi tony (Oct 10, 2017)

There is no ride-sharing insurance in New York. Or gap insurance. Not sure what they are using in the five boroughs, but as far as Rochester Buffalo Syracuse or Albany I know it's not available.


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## Urbanappalachian (Dec 11, 2016)

I'll keep it simple: when one is logged in to either Lyft or Uber, those companies has your back. When you're just driving your car to buy the lotto, your insurance covers your ass. Is that simple enough?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Urbanappalachian said:


> I'll keep it simple: when one is logged in to either Lyft or Uber, those companies has your back. When you're just driving your car to buy the lotto, your insurance covers your ass. Is that simple enough?


No, in fact it is OVERSIMPLIFIED. You began this thread asking for advice and continued to do so, but after all the replies you have come to a convenient but erroneous conclusion.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Urbanappalachian said:


> I'll keep it simple: _*when one is logged in to either Lyft or Uber, those companies has your back.*_ When you're just driving your car to buy the lotto, your insurance covers your ass. Is that simple enough?


That's not true at all..

Let me explain it to you with a chart.. DIRECTLY FROM UBER










Period 1 is the problem. Liability WHEN NECESSARY!

When you are period 1 you are liability only if your state requires Uber to provide liability.

Liability only means that if another car plows into you, ramming you into a mailbox, completely totaling your car, and the other driver drives off...

The mailbox owner will get a bigger insurance payout than you will. You will get a big fat ZERO! $0.00

If you owe money on the car, guess what? Your lender won't get a check either.

Chances are high your personal insurance is 100% off between period 1 and period 3!

So they won't write you a check either...

All you have is a totaled car that you can pick pieces off and sell on Ebay one part at a time.


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## Joshua J (Aug 1, 2017)

It's selfish AF to NOT get insurance that will cover yourself, others. Going bankrupt due to medical claims on a car accident isn't worth the pennies this job pays. If you can't safely insure yourself while driving, its not a job for you. IMO, State Farm is the best I've found. $500 deductibles/$120 a month w rideshare coverage.


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## Taxi tony (Oct 10, 2017)

If your insurance company finds out that you are using your vehicle for commercial purposes that is a violation of the terms of the policy. I don't care if you're working for Uber, or you're delivering pizzas with your personal vehicle, or delivering newspapers with your personal vehicle. The bottom line is you are not allowed under your current insurance policy to use your vehicle for commercial purposes. If the insurance company finds out that you are driving for Uber, even on the way to get your lotto ticket, they can deny any claim and cancel your policy. Because at one time or another during the course of your policy you violated it. Your insurance company don't care about Uber, or what pizza company you were working for, or what newspaper you were delivery. If you kill somebody while you are going to get your lotto ticket, and your insurance company finds out that you have a uber sticker in your window, don't you think that they're going to refuse that huge payment against them if they can?


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> I don't know Lyfts policy, only Uber. They offer CONTINGENT Collision coverage when app is on.
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/insurance/
> *Contingent collision and comprehensive coverage*
> ...


Nope. It's not when app is on, it's only periods 2 and 3.

And no, you do not lose this benefit if your carrier drops you. UberMyth. You met the criteria at the time of the accident.



Taxi tony said:


> If your insurance company finds out that you are using your vehicle for commercial purposes that is a violation of the terms of the policy. I don't care if you're working for Uber, or you're delivering pizzas with your personal vehicle, or delivering newspapers with your personal vehicle. The bottom line is you are not allowed under your current insurance policy to use your vehicle for commercial purposes. If the insurance company finds out that you are driving for Uber, even on the way to get your lotto ticket, they can deny any claim and cancel your policy. Because at one time or another during the course of your policy you violated it. Your insurance company don't care about Uber, or what pizza company you were working for, or what newspaper you were delivery. If you kill somebody while you are going to get your lotto ticket, and your insurance company finds out that you have a uber sticker in your window, don't you think that they're going to refuse that huge payment against them if they can?


OK, I'll bite. Show me a single time this has happened.

Show me a SINGLE TIME a driver was not covered on personal time because he/she was an Uber driver.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Period 1 is the problem. Liability WHEN NECESSARY!
> 
> When you are period 1 you are liability only if your state requires Uber to provide liability.


Nope. Uber provides at least secondary limited liability in ALL states during period 1. Read your chart.

_When necessary_ means after your personal insurance has denied your claim or paid zero.



UberBeamer said:


> If you total your car while on a ride, come back and let us know how that turned out.


We don't need to wait. There have been hundreds of reported accidents. James River paid as contractually and legally bound to.


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## Taxi tony (Oct 10, 2017)

Let's see James River payout the $2000000 for the Uber driver that killed that football player. That's right he killed the football player by stopping in the middle of a highway. This is what happens when you just let anybody behind the wheel in a professional industry. There's your proof


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Taxi tony said:


> Let's see James River payout the $2000000 for the Uber driver that killed that football player. That's right he killed the football player by stopping in the middle of a highway. This is what happens when you just let anybody behind the wheel in a professional industry. There's your proof


I believe the driver died too so...



RamzFanz said:


> Nope. It's not when app is on, it's only periods 2 and 3.
> 
> And no, you do not lose this benefit if your carrier drops you. UberMyth. You met the criteria at the time of the accident.
> 
> ...


Theres a reason they explicitly put in contingient on... If they intend to always cover you, they would just say they always cover you. If you violate your policy terms, then your policy was always void. If its a small accident with minor damage, JR may not investigate but if you have a total destruction, car totalled youre deep in the hopsital bills, and your insurance companies decides to void your policy, they can leave you and your vehicle high and dry. Your pax and anything you hit will be covered until the 1mil liability, but you may be left to hang and dry. Not worth it when proper insurance may not cost.more than $20 more a month in some markets.


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## Taxi tony (Oct 10, 2017)

In Rochester New York there is no ride-sharing insurance available 2 Uber or Lyft drivers. This is something that Ober does not tell its people. Regardless of who you are working for, when you use your personal vehicle to make money you are violating the terms of your personal insurance policy. Let me give you another for instance. This may sound really stupid and far-fetched but did you know that a pizza delivery person who is using his own vehicle to deliver pizzas is also violating the terms of their insurance policy. Do you think if an insurance company that was on the hook for $75,000 wouldn't try to find a reason not to pay it?


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Taxi tony said:


> Let's see James River payout the $2000000 for the Uber driver that killed that football player. That's right he killed the football player by stopping in the middle of a highway. This is what happens when you just let anybody behind the wheel in a professional industry. There's your proof


LOL! Now the driver KILLED the player?! Jesus dude, just stop.

OMG this gets old. So, what, you have a Master's in Taxiology? Hilarious. Hey, remember that day in college when they taught you how to deal with a shooting on the highway with a football player in the back? Good times.

Professional industry. Yeah, it's so professional taxis are pretty much despised worldwide. 2 1/2 years of Ubering and I STILL get to hear taxi nightmare stories daily.



steveK2016 said:


> Theres a reason they explicitly put in contingient on... If they intend to always cover you, they would just say they always cover you.


Yes! There IS a reason! That reason, as it is clearly spelled out, is contingent on you having collision on your personal insurance. Period.



steveK2016 said:


> If you violate your policy terms, then your policy was always void. If its a small accident with minor damage, JR may not investigate but if you have a total destruction, car totalled youre deep in the hopsital bills, and your insurance companies decides to void your policy, they can leave you and your vehicle high and dry. Your pax and anything you hit will be covered until the 1mil liability, but you may be left to hang and dry. Not worth it when proper insurance may not cost.more than $20 more a month in some markets.


Well then, you should have no trouble showing me a single time this has happened.

And no one said TNC insurance wasn't worth it.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> LOL! Now the driver KILLED the player?! Jesus dude, just stop.
> 
> OMG this gets old. So, what, you have a Master's in Taxiology? Hilarious. Hey, remember that day in college when they taught you how to deal with a shooting on the highway with a football player in the back? Good times.
> 
> ...


Its risk assessment. You are free to take any risk you want in life. You are free to tell us what your insurance company is and advise that they, specifically, dont care but to advise as a whole that it doesnt matter is bad advise.

Theres plenty of posts around here about being dropped by their insurance company.

My advise: take what ever risk you want but if your risk changes in life, contact your insurance provide to make sure your new risk is covered. It's your financial future at stake, not RamzFanz


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Its risk assessment. You are free to take any risk you want in life. You are free to tell us what your insurance company is and advise that they, specifically, dont care but to advise as a whole that it doesnt matter is bad advise.


Never once said anything of the kind.



steveK2016 said:


> Theres plenty of posts around here about being dropped by their insurance company.


Yes, and you will notice the vast majority were Geico. Geico will drop you like a rock.



steveK2016 said:


> My advise: take what ever risk you want but if your risk changes in life, contact your insurance provide to make sure your new risk is covered. It's your financial future at stake, not RamzFanz


Exactly what I did. Never advised otherwise.


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