# So it's confirmed Uber is actually stealing our tips under "service fee"



## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals. 
And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned. 
Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


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## Dchap08 (Jul 29, 2017)

Yep, just saw this one myself from tonight during my first surge ride in 2 weeks. 
Uber took 39% of the fare...


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## Goduckies (Mar 23, 2017)

Do you get boost? Quest? They have to pay for it somehow... as to tips If They steal it, that is crap.


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## excel2345 (Dec 14, 2015)

Goduckies said:


> Do you get boost? Quest? They have to pay for it somehow... as to tips If They steal it, that is crap.


I don't think Uber steals tips. I do think their interpretation of the agreement we signed is wrong and leans toward greed. They overcharge passengers based on the published mileage/time rates and keep the overage. The agreement is loosely written except for the part where it says drivers will only be paid actual time and mileage -25% and the booking fee. When I started Uber took 25% and the booking fee from the fare, this was correct. I'm willing to bet that overall Ubers take is closer to 35=40%.Rates will never be raised if Uber can just raise the guaranteed fare to the passenger.

This is entirely unfair, their interpretation of the word "fare" is different from any dictionary.

Regarding boost and quest, this is Uber manipulating drivers to go where Uber wants them, it's not some form of generosity that Uber bestows on drivers.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

excel2345 said:


> I don't think Uber steals tips. I do think their interpretation of the agreement we signed is wrong and leans toward greed. They overcharge passengers based on the published mileage/time rates and keep the overage. The agreement is loosely written except for the part where it says drivers will only be paid actual time and mileage -25% and the booking fee. When I started Uber took 25% and the booking fee from the fare, this was correct. I'm willing to bet that overall Ubers take is closer to 35=40%.Rates will never be raised if Uber can just raise the guaranteed fare to the passenger.
> 
> This is entirely unfair, their interpretation of the word "fare" is different from any dictionary.
> 
> Regarding boost and quest, this is Uber manipulating drivers to go where Uber wants them, it's not some form of generosity that Uber bestows on drivers.


I do not want to spread rumors, But op has pretty solid evidence that Uber stole his $10 tip, Even Uber admitted to it.
Here are uber responses and amount after adjustment. 
Average drivers like us has absolutely no way to track if our tip is stolen, But recently I have seen many of my rides where Uber took more than 50% of the total fare.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

excel2345 said:


> I don't think Uber steals tips. I do think their interpretation of the agreement we signed is wrong and leans toward greed. They overcharge passengers based on the published mileage/time rates and keep the overage. The agreement is loosely written except for the part where it says drivers will only be paid actual time and mileage -25% and the booking fee. When I started Uber took 25% and the booking fee from the fare, this was correct. I'm willing to bet that overall Ubers take is closer to 35=40%.Rates will never be raised if Uber can just raise the guaranteed fare to the passenger.
> 
> This is entirely unfair, their interpretation of the word "fare" is different from any dictionary.
> 
> Regarding boost and quest, this is Uber manipulating drivers to go where Uber wants them, it's not some form of generosity that Uber bestows on drivers.


Nothing to do with their agreement or their interpretation, uber plain converted the tip into a rider fee by error I'm sure (LOL), error or not if I see this happening to me I am starting class action number 2 next to the one that blocked us from getting tips, this has TK written all over it, he never learns and it's the reason why they want him off the boards.


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## Uberingdude (May 29, 2017)

If proven to be widespread, This would be a major PR catastrophe, even for a skunk like Uber.

But now I am paranoid, I remember a few weeks ago, I gave a ride to some woman who said they would tip me after the trip. Yes, I know everyone always says this, but this seems like one of those people that really meant it.
I usually don't look up details of trips, but I was kind of curious about this one because they promised the tip. I remember I was surprised that they had like a $15 booking fee.


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## Robert finnly (Jul 1, 2017)

Aerodrifting said:


> Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals.
> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.
> Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


Wow this actually makes sense. How is uber allowed to do this by law?


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

Robert finnly said:


> Wow this actually makes sense. How is uber allowed to do this by law?


They aren't, it's plain wage theft they are hoping will go unnoticed for a while before they fix it and say "oops".


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## Robert finnly (Jul 1, 2017)

I was wondering why uber was taking 60% of my fares.. so your telling me i actually could of been getting tips



Jesusdrivesuber said:


> They aren't, it's plain wage theft they are hoping will go unnoticed for a while before they fix it and say "oops".


I can't even remember the date or trips. But i rem a 45 min ride were the fare was $52 and i only got $23 . I just figured uber takes as much as it wants. Booking fee if i recall was $15 but i thought nothing of it. So what % should uber be taking at most?


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## Foober_Lyftz (Dec 25, 2015)

To me, this is already enough proof to get another class action going. Get r done OP


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## Uberingdude (May 29, 2017)

Robert finnly said:


> Wow this actually makes sense. How is uber allowed to do this by law?


Who knows what we agree to in the EULA.

MODS, feature this thread!!


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## PTUber (Sep 16, 2015)

Aerodrifting said:


> I do not want to spread rumors, But op has pretty solid evidence that Uber stole his $10 tip, Even Uber admitted to it.
> Here are uber responses and amount after adjustment.
> Average drivers like us has absolutely no way to track if our tip is stolen, But recently I have seen many of my rides where Uber took more than 50% of the total fare.


The part that bothers me in their response is "the tip of $10 was correctly applied". It wan't until you called them on it. The proper response should have been "a mistake was made and the tip was incorrectly charged to the service fee. We have corrected the situation....". I'm hoping it was indeed a mistake. I have gone back and looked at a random selection of my past rides and it appears the service charges were correct. Admittedly I don't have time to look at all of them.


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## Grand Master B (Jun 5, 2017)

a call for class action lawsuit is needed. uber needs to open up their books. no more "oops, there was an error" bs.


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## JoeBuckYourself (Aug 7, 2017)

There have been a few time that I have tips show up 1-2 weeks after the ride. I wonder if any of these were times that Uber made their "adjustment"? I always assumed that the Pax re-opens their app a couple weeks later and notices they didn't rate/tip on the last ride, but I will be paying closer attention to my service fees from now on, especially when a Pax says they will be tipping on the app. Thanks OP.


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## Foober_Lyftz (Dec 25, 2015)

Night time bump. Important thread


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

The booking fee is a specific amount. It's the same for every ride. It is separate from the service fee. The booking fee is supposed to go to specific costs that Uber incurs. Things like insurance to cover us, amounts of money that have to be paid to certain municipalities or States, stuff like that. I know a lot of people say they doubt that that's where it goes but it all has to come out when they report to the IRS. This is not an area where they're going to lie.

The service fee, however, is an entirely different animal. This represents Uber's take. This would also cover whatever expenses they incur in the way of employees and office overhead. And profit. Let's not forget profit. This used to be either 20% or 25%, depending on when you started with Uber, of the fare, which includes the base rate, time, and mileage.

If the booking fee goes up higher than its supposed to, it is clearly a glitch, whether intentional or accidental. It is clearly an indication that a portion of the money needs to go back to the driver, as it was allocated incorrectly.


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## Uberingdude (May 29, 2017)

PTUber said:


> The part that bothers me in their response is "the tip of $10 was correctly applied". It wan't until you called them on it. The proper response should have been "a mistake was made and the tip was incorrectly charged to the service fee. We have corrected the situation....". I'm hoping it was indeed a mistake. I have gone back and looked at a random selection of my past rides and it appears the service charges were correct. Admittedly I don't have time to look at all of them.


Agreed.

It really angers me how they try to pretend everything was right. No, the tip was not correctly applied. You do not get a tip in future statements. If it was applied correctly, he would have seen it appearing on his statement immediately


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

I have many examples like these.
Was the service fee really $5.84 and no tip?
Was it $4.84 with a stolen $1 tip?
Was it $3.84 with a stolen $2 tip?
There would be no way of knowing from stranger pax.
I get double digit in-app tips every day. On tip matching day, I did 21 rides with 1 $3 tip. Coincidence?


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## Mikedamirault (Jun 22, 2016)

You know, since I started driving for Uber a little over a year ago, I noticed Uber has made a *lot *of "mistakes", including, but not limited to...

•Mistakes with fuel/fleet card payments
•Mistakes with referral payouts
•Mistakes with Surge payouts
•Mistakes with waiting fees
•Mistakes/bugs with the driver app
•Mistakes with paying back for trip involved fees (tolls for example)(this in particular doesn't pertain to me, but still counts as it happens to other drivers)

The funny thing about all these "mistakes" is they all fall in Uber's favor (and those that do fall in our favor are all "solved" quickly and in a form most inconvenient to us), and these "mistakes" are often cleverly hidden and only become a "mistake" when found out

This means one of two things, and neither are very good on Uber's part

1. They could honestly be mistakes, but with the amount of these mistakes and how often they happen, if they really are mistakes, they should stop while they are ahead because they really don't know what they are doing

2. All their "mistakes" are just ways to take more money out of our pockets (illegally might I add), hoping we don't notice, which should be enough for a class action lawsuit


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## SpeedyGonzalez11 (Jan 16, 2017)

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> They aren't, it's plain wage theft they are hoping will go unnoticed for a while before they fix it and say "oops".


Exactly. It's vague legalese that they hope people won't dig into. Eventually it'll come to light but by then uber hopes to make enough to make it worth their timr.

https://uberpeople.net/posts/2899290/

https://uberpeople.net/posts/2899186/

https://uberpeople.net/threads/am-i-screwed-or-what.193463/#post-2886279



Mikedamirault said:


> You know, since I started driving for Uber a little over a year ago, I noticed Uber has made a *lot *of "mistakes", including, but not limited to...
> 
> •Mistakes with fuel/fleet card payments
> •Mistakes with referral payouts
> ...


Dude I couldnt have said it better myself. It's like when someone always conveniently has an excuse for something and it always works out for them.

>oh I was asleep
>oh my phone died
>oh I was at the hospital
>oh I lost my phone
>oh my ringer was off

Just like it. I wish they were finally challenged and this mess fixed bc this extra service fee bullshit is getting on my nerves. Go back to the 20% for old/25% for new drivers.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Aerodrifting said:


> Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals.
> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.
> Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


Does anyone suspect this could be happening with Lyft? What about all the non-tip or $1 tip Lyft rides?


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

If true they are asking for criminal charges and a massive lawsuit.



Mikedamirault said:


> You know, since I started driving for Uber a little over a year ago, I noticed Uber has made a *lot *of "mistakes", including, but not limited to...
> 
> •Mistakes with fuel/fleet card payments
> •Mistakes with referral payouts
> ...


Also if you ask them to make any adjustment they take it out of YOUR share and do many times what you request.

For instance once my phone died during a forced upgrade so I couldn't end the trip right away. It was five extra minutes and I just stayed in the parking lot. To be fair to the passenger I contacted Uber in the app and requested that they refund 5 minutes of time to the rider. This should have been 12 cents * 5 minutes = 60 cents and from the total fare (so maybe 40 cents deduction for me). Instead they took $5 out of MY SHARE ONLY and I ended up getting like $2 for the trip (which is under the minimum fare anyway). I didn't even bother to write in again over it but I notice this happens every time I request an adjustment. It is extremely scummy and is basically fraud on their part.


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## Just Another Uber Drive (Jul 15, 2015)

Los Angeles channel 5 KTLA loves running Uber stories. Here is their contact page:

http://ktla.com/contact/

I would love to see this latest Uber theft story go national.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Aerodrifting said:


> I do not want to spread rumors, But op has pretty solid evidence that Uber stole his $10 tip, Even Uber admitted to it.
> Here are uber responses and amount after adjustment.
> Average drivers like us has absolutely no way to track if our tip is stolen, But recently I have seen many of my rides where Uber took more than 50% of the total fare.


It looks like Uber is copycatting Amazon. Amazon has been doing this to their drivers for a while.

If you read this, " includes any booking fees, pass through fees, contributions, and reimbursable costs such as tolls paid by the driver" it doesn't say anything about including tips....



Robert finnly said:


> Wow this actually makes sense. How is uber allowed to do this by law?


Tips earned by employees *Must *be paid to employees . Drivers are "independent contractors" so tips paid to them is more of a gray area.


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## day tripper yeah... (Dec 21, 2015)

.6480/mile is already theft and abuse so why wouldn't they...


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Tips paid for with a credit card must be paid to the employee *by the next pay day* and no deductions for the credit card transaction fee are allowed.

Edited, business to pay**

http://www.californiaemploymentlawr...ps-gratuities-service-charges-california-law/


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

Has anyone talked to lawyers about this yet?


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## perry470 (Dec 8, 2016)

If Uber takes any more than 50% it should be an automatic red flag for you to look into.
I started looking into all the trips I've done since they started giving us information on how much riders pay.
Here's the thread I made: Fare Detail Shenanigan


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## AllGold (Sep 16, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> View attachment 149595
> 
> View attachment 149596
> 
> ...


I had one almost exactly like that (4+ mile ride with an almost $6 service fee). Then a while later, a 5+ mile ride with the service fee less than half the 4+ mile ride. No surge on either. I emailed Uber about them mistakenly applying my tip to their service fee and they blew me off with some B.S. But I'm going to keep on them. Either they stole my tip or they totally jacked the rider on the fare.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

SpeedyGonzalez11 said:


> Exactly. It's vague legalese that they hope people won't dig into. Eventually it'll come to light but by then uber hopes to make enough to make it worth their timr.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/posts/2899290/
> 
> ...


Lol this has nothing to do with your issues.

This is uber keeping tips and not paying the drivers. Thats a very big problem and difficuly for drivers to track, but a different problem altogether.

You have a real bad problem with tunnel vision.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

AllGold said:


> I had one almost exactly like that (4+ mile ride with an almost $6 service fee). Then a while later, a 5+ mile ride with the service fee less than half the 4+ mile ride. No surge on either. I emailed Uber about them mistakenly applying my tip to their service fee and they blew me off with some B.S. But I'm going to keep on them. Either they stole my tip or they totally jacked the rider on the fare.


They ARE totally jacking riders. They gave us drivers in-app tipping, but jack pax so bad, they don't want to tip.
Another example (Rider paid what a cab would have charged for the same ride):


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## Marco55 (Dec 13, 2016)

Oh boy just checked my old rides! Guess
What ? Just got robbed two!
Service fee is showing $10! Anybody want to joint a class action!
#Uberstealingmytips


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

observer said:


> It looks like Uber is copycatting Amazon. Amazon has been doing this to their drivers for a while.
> 
> If you read this, " includes any booking fees, pass through fees, contributions, and reimbursable costs such as tolls paid by the driver" it doesn't say anything about including tips....
> 
> Tips earned by employees *Must *be paid to employees . Drivers are "independent contractors" so tips paid to them is more of a gray area.


I sure as hell hope this isn't the strategy uber plans to use when it gets taken to court for "yet" another class action, tips are wages and wage theft in a large scale is going dwarf the lawsuit they got for just blocking tips.

It's like they want to blow off their revenues in legal fees and paying drivers after they lose.

This has Kalanick written all over, management needs to be purged or Kalanick's lackey's will destroy the company taking Kalanick's orders from the shadows.

The board needs to drain the entire swamp not just the swampiest area.


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## excel2345 (Dec 14, 2015)

Taxi2Uber said:


> They ARE totally jacking riders. They gave us drivers in-app tipping, but jack pax so bad, they don't want to tip.
> Another example (Rider paid what a cab would have charged for the same ride):
> View attachment 150214
> 
> View attachment 150219


I think there is another problem with your screenshot, total of what Uber receives and what you received don't add up to what the passenger paid. Anyone explain this?


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## MINPHX2017 (Jul 31, 2017)

Yup..
17.98-6.99 = 10.99
Not
10.47

Seems to be .52 floating out there somewhere??


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

excel2345 said:


> I think there is another problem with your screenshot, total of what Uber receives and what you received don't add up to what the passenger paid. Anyone explain this?





MINPHX2017 said:


> Yup..
> 17.98-6.99 = 10.99
> Not
> 10.47
> Seems to be .52 floating out there somewhere??


There's a 3rd page I didn't screenshot and post:
"Others receive
3% Transportation Recovery Charge
Total $0.52"


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

observer said:


> It looks like Uber is copycatting Amazon. Amazon has been doing this to their drivers for a while.
> 
> If you read this, " includes any booking fees, pass through fees, contributions, and reimbursable costs such as tolls paid by the driver" it doesn't say anything about including tips....
> 
> Tips earned by employees *Must *be paid to employees . Drivers are "independent contractors" so tips paid to them is more of a gray area.


No. Actually that makes it even worse if Uber keeps them.


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## Ubertimes (Apr 30, 2016)

Aerodrifting said:


> Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals.
> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.
> Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


They charge metro pcs users extra fees( lol )


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> They ARE totally jacking riders. They gave us drivers in-app tipping, but jack pax so bad, they don't want to tip.
> Another example (Rider paid what a cab would have charged for the same ride):
> View attachment 150214
> 
> View attachment 150219


While I can't make the math work without assuming Uber is stealing, are any of these rides Airport pickups? If so, where is the Airport fee? Is that rolled into the Service fee? If so, it's easy to pull that fee plus any taxes out off the riders pay and then take the 20% or 25% that is Ubers cut. If that doesn't add up then they are likely stealing your tips.


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## pjrxj (Jul 20, 2016)

Nothing is "illegal" until you get caught. The problem with Uber is they can without $$ through several different ways that is invisible to us that we can't even prove it. Sometimes the amount is small to us so it may not be worth the time to pursue it. That's what they want, small amounts from a lot of driver's = Mo' Money, Mo' Money for Uber. I give out refer cards by the hundreds a week. I've only gotten $25 in the last 6 months even though I have verified family that have used them. After several emails I gave up. That's just what they want...for us to give up.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Uberingdude said:


> If proven to be widespread, This would be a major PR catastrophe, even for a skunk like Uber.
> 
> But now I am paranoid, I remember a few weeks ago, I gave a ride to some woman who said they would tip me after the trip. Yes, I know everyone always says this, but this seems like one of those people that really meant it.
> I usually don't look up details of trips, but I was kind of curious about this one because they promised the tip. I remember I was surprised that they had like a $15 booking fee.


Imagine how bad this PR would be if riders find out their tips are going to Uber instead of the driver. It is like a person going to a restaurant and finding out their tip went to the restaurant instead of the waiter.

I'm surprised if they are stealing tips that they even put it in the service fee. Next step is for them to steal the tips and not even report it. Just sock it away in some distant account and launder it.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Does anyone suspect this could be happening with Lyft? What about all the non-tip or $1 tip Lyft rides?


It's possible. Lyft loves to copy what Uber is doing, since they don't really seem to want to be better than Uber as much as they jealously want to be Uber. But in the unlikely chance that Lyft indeed does run a clean operation, they will be taking a lot of market share from Uber due to this.


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## WMUber (Mar 22, 2016)

Mikedamirault said:


> You know, since I started driving for Uber a little over a year ago, I noticed Uber has made a *lot *of "mistakes", including, but not limited to...
> 
> •Mistakes with fuel/fleet card payments
> •Mistakes with referral payouts
> ...


Uber did have one major mistake in our favor:

They paid all X riders 80% for about five months. However, I feel this wasn't a mistake, but more of a stealth bonus to lure in new drivers. It wasn't until some ants on UberPeople started to post that they were getting 80% that Uber "Discovered" their mistake and reduced the new driver pay to 75%.


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## Jayman (May 26, 2015)

PTUber said:


> The part that bothers me in their response is "the tip of $10 was correctly applied". It wan't until you called them on it. The proper response should have been "a mistake was made and the tip was incorrectly charged to the service fee. We have corrected the situation....". I'm hoping it was indeed a mistake. I have gone back and looked at a random selection of my past rides and it appears the service charges were correct. Admittedly I don't have time to look at all of them.


Speaking of calling Uber out on things, instant pay wasn't working last night for me. Emailed Uber and they say my account will get credited in 72 hours. I complained and said it was unacceptable. Magically, my instant pay requests went through.


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## prsvshine (Mar 2, 2017)

Man, I'm so glad I stopped driving for Uber, sorry to hear that you guys are getting ****ed even more.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

But remember, 180 Days Of Change already resolved all of our "earnings" grievances. We can now earn tips even though most passengers don't tip and we can now charge $0.17 a minute wait time. Wait 10 minutes? Earn a whopping $1.70!

You see folks, Uber's 180 Days Of Scams is merely a front to cover from the outright theft known as upfront fares scam and increased booking fees. What Uber essentially did was raise rates, and in some cases significantly, and not pass a penny onto the driver. Really an unethical and disgusting company. And if you think Travis was the only problem he isn't. There are many other rotten apples that should have been fired with him. Rachel Holt (GM of Uber NA) is another one that has to go. The old administration needs to be repealed and replaced.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Uber is not stealing tips. 

If the tip exceeds a certain % of the fare, they hold it back as a fraud prevention measure. It is then paid later. It initially shows as a "service fee" but does flow to the driver.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

WOW, documentation of a tip steal. I know one of the attorneys doing a class action, I'll send this his way and tell them to consider contacting the OP.



WaveRunner1 said:


> But remember, 180 Days Of Change already resolved all of our "earnings" grievances. We can now earn tips even though most passengers don't tip and we can now charge $0.17 a minute wait time. Wait 10 minutes? Earn a whopping $1.70!
> 
> You see folks, Uber's 180 Days Of Scams is merely a front to cover from the outright theft known as upfront fares scam and increased booking fees. What Uber essentially did was raise rates, and in some cases significantly, and not pass a penny onto the driver. Really an unethical and disgusting company. And if you think Travis was the only problem he isn't. There are many other rotten apples that should have been fired with him. Rachel Holt (GM of Uber NA) is another one that has to go. The old administration needs to be repealed and replaced.


Come, come now! I feel like I'm being listened to. Listened to and IGNORED!!! It's 180 days of broom stick!



DexNex said:


> Uber is not stealing tips.
> 
> If the tip exceeds a certain % of the fare, they hold it back as a fraud prevention measure. It is then paid later. It initially shows as a "service fee" but does flow to the driver.


How would we know this and how could we possibly trust them?


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

PTUber said:


> The part that bothers me in their response is "the tip of $10 was correctly applied". It wan't until you called them on it. The proper response should have been "a mistake was made and the tip was incorrectly charged to the service fee. We have corrected the situation....". I'm hoping it was indeed a mistake. I have gone back and looked at a random selection of my past rides and it appears the service charges were correct. Admittedly I don't have time to look at all of them.


The tip was held back as a fraud prevention measure.



Disgusted Driver said:


> WOW, documentation of a tip steal. I know one of the attorneys doing a class action, I'll send this his way and tell them to consider contacting the OP.
> 
> Come, come now! I feel like I'm being listened to. Listened to and IGNORED!!! It's 180 days of broom stick!
> 
> How would we know this and how could we possibly trust them?


Just like holding a high dollar surge run for a moment, tips that exceed a certain percentage of the fare are held in the system for a moment. There is no stealing here, there is no conspiracy to defraud you. They just don't have a separate pending tip line to show you, so it sits in the service fee bucket until being released to you. This is a non-issue.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

PTUber said:


> The part that bothers me in their response is "the tip of $10 was correctly applied". It wan't until you called them on it. The proper response should have been "a mistake was made and the tip was incorrectly charged to the service fee. We have corrected the situation....". I'm hoping it was indeed a mistake. I have gone back and looked at a random selection of my past rides and it appears the service charges were correct. Admittedly I don't have time to look at all of them.


Because they couldn't "adjust" what shows so we don't even get to see it.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

JoeBuckYourself said:


> There have been a few time that I have tips show up 1-2 weeks after the ride. I wonder if any of these were times that Uber made their "adjustment"? I always assumed that the Pax re-opens their app a couple weeks later and notices they didn't rate/tip on the last ride, but I will be paying closer attention to my service fees from now on, especially when a Pax says they will be tipping on the app. Thanks OP.


They have up to 30 days to tip you.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

DexNex said:


> The tip was held back as a fraud prevention measure.
> 
> Just like holding a high dollar surge run for a moment, tips that exceed a certain percentage of the fare are held in the system for a moment. There is no stealing here, there is no conspiracy to defraud you. They just don't have a separate pending tip line to show you, so it sits in the service fee bucket until being released to you. This is a non-issue.


Where kind Sir are you getting this info from? I know that fares over $150 are reviewed, it's buried deep within Uber's documentation but there is nothing about holding tips that I could find. Given all the shady crap they've done in the past, I have a great deal of trouble even extending them the benefit of the doubt.


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## Okphillip (Feb 6, 2017)

BS! they are NOT stealing tips. How is a large corporation going to hide this. Do you know how many people would have to be complicit? You queens are always looking to throw Uber under the bus when you should be going after LYFT!


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Where kind Sir are you getting this info from? I know that fares over $150 are reviewed, it's buried deep within Uber's documentation but there is nothing about holding tips that I could find. Given all the shady crap they've done in the past, I have a great deal of trouble even extending them the benefit of the doubt.


I see delayed tips all the time. They move from one pool to the other. No biggie. Often they show on the weekly payout along with other payments (i.e boost). Uber is under no obligation to share its fraud prevention techniques, but know that anytime a tip gets close to 100% of the fare, it is going to trigger a hold.


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## PTUber (Sep 16, 2015)

DexNex said:


> The tip was held back as a fraud prevention measure.
> 
> Just like holding a high dollar surge run for a moment, tips that exceed a certain percentage of the fare are held in the system for a moment. There is no stealing here, there is no conspiracy to defraud you. They just don't have a separate pending tip line to show you, so it sits in the service fee bucket until being released to you. This is a non-issue.


Ok then the correct answer should have been just that "we are/were temporally holding the tip in the service fee for fraud protection once cleared it will be paid as your tip". I do agree I didn't think they were "stealing" our tips just to far fetched even for Uber especially with all the bad press.


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## rotocub (Apr 30, 2016)

Same thing happened to me. Uber never gave in and kept the $5.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-may-be-making-big-money-thanks-to-in-app-tipping.187114/


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> WOW, documentation of a tip steal. I know one of the attorneys doing a class action, I'll send this his way and tell them to consider contacting the OP.
> 
> Come, come now! I feel like I'm being listened to. Listened to and IGNORED!!! It's 180 days of broom stick!
> 
> How would we know this and how could we possibly trust them?


How can I get in on this class action?


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## blackopps (Jul 8, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> They ARE totally jacking riders. They gave us drivers in-app tipping, but jack pax so bad, they don't want to tip.
> Another example (Rider paid what a cab would have charged for the same ride):
> View attachment 150214
> 
> View attachment 150219


Exactly
I had a $150 Uber black fare. Rider paid around $150. I was paid 55% of the fare. Uber kept 45%+ . I took the shorter more sensible freeway route. Uber quoted a longer route customer pays. No more time to long haul.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Okay. 
Miles 34.01
Minutes 55.40

Rates are .86 and .11

I am at 80% on X. 

29.25 for miles - 23.40 for me = 5.85
6.09 for mins - 4.87 for me = 1.22
1.00 base - 0.80 for me = 0.20

Service fee 25.14-7.27(their 20% of the miles/minutes) = 17.87

So, either, Uber charged the customer a Flat Fee instead of charging higher rates OR my passenger had an odd sense of humor and tipped 17.87


This is not to say Uber would never do what is being accused. But, much more likely they wouldn't show you that stolen money at all. 

Almost every case of stolen wages is the worker knows how many hours they worked but the company is only paying for fewer hours OR have classified the OT in some way as to be paying regular hourly instead. 

Rare cases of credit card tips not being paid out correctly or card processing fees be subtracted from the tips.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

PTUber said:


> The part that bothers me in their response is "the tip of $10 was correctly applied". It wan't until you called them on it. The proper response should have been "a mistake was made and the tip was incorrectly charged to the service fee. We have corrected the situation....". I'm hoping it was indeed a mistake. I have gone back and looked at a random selection of my past rides and it appears the service charges were correct. Admittedly I don't have time to look at all of them.


With up-front pricing how can anyone possibly know if the service fee is correct? Uber can (over)charge the rider any amount so we have no basis for knowing if the service charge is correct even if it is under 25% (which it rarely is!). The only way to know for sure is if Uber showed us at the beginning of the ride the fare paid by the rider. Then we would be able to tell later if Uber misappropriated our tip. I have had many, many trips recently where Uber has taken 40 to 50% of the total fare and this thread now makes me wonder if they have stolen tips from me. If not, their up-front pricing greed is steadily increasing. It's amazing to me that there hasn't been a greater negative rider response to all of this. Up-front pricing is really cheating both riders and drivers.



Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Okay.
> Miles 34.01
> Minutes 55.40
> 
> ...


No, but the rider could have tipped you $10 and the service fee should have been $10 lower. How would you know? There is no way to tell simply by looking at the service fee.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Also.

Take this as an example.
"Upfront Pricing" quote.
988.48

475 miles
Call it 7hrs
Or.

408.50 - 326.80 = 81.70
46.20 - 36.96 = 9.24
1.00 - 0.80 = 0.20
2.45 Booking fee.
Service fee should be 91.14
Total charge to customer should be 458.15
Not
988.48

988.48 - 458.15 = 530.33 just going into Ubers pocket.


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## Irunuber (Jun 29, 2017)

Uh....I'm super paranoid now. Looking at back at lots of my Select trips and Uber has been taking close to 45% after all the fees and stuff. That could be the upfront pricing bs we agreed to or it could be tips Uber is stealing. I'm hiring a lawyer


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

DexNex said:


> The tip was held back as a fraud prevention measure.
> 
> Just like holding a high dollar surge run for a moment, tips that exceed a certain percentage of the fare are held in the system for a moment. There is no stealing here, there is no conspiracy to defraud you. They just don't have a separate pending tip line to show you, so it sits in the service fee bucket until being released to you. This is a non-issue.


How do you know either of these things? And if a $10 tip is ever considered extreme on any basis -- percentage or otherwise -- then it's time for Uber to ask people in other lines of business for some advice. Then again, maybe I should cut them some slack... I forgot that they don't have much experience with tipping.


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## Marco55 (Dec 13, 2016)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Also.
> 
> Take this as an example.
> "Upfront Pricing" quote.
> ...


Uber customers not smart! If this customer paid driver $850 cash and not report the driver .customer will be saving $150 ! And Uber gets the middle finger for ripping of customers as well drivers!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> How can I get in on this class action?


If you opted out of arbitration you will get contacted about the upfront fare overcharges (probably the ones that occured before we had to accept the new contract) and likely one about IC status in the next year or two. If you didn't opt out, you are somewhat screwed. You'll have to wait till these get done and then see if there's an attorney doing assembly line arbitrations.


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## Marco55 (Dec 13, 2016)

Wow trolls every where!



pjrxj said:


> Nothing is "illegal" until you get caught. The problem with Uber is they can without $$ through several different ways that is invisible to us that we can't even prove it. Sometimes the amount is small to us so it may not be worth the time to pursue it. That's what they want, small amounts from a lot of driver's = Mo' Money, Mo' Money for Uber. I give out refer cards by the hundreds a week. I've only gotten $25 in the last 6 months even though I have verified family that have used them. After several emails I gave up. That's just what they want...for us to give up.


They want Mo money they gonna loose 
O the money!


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## AllGold (Sep 16, 2016)

On the trip I posted earlier, Uber support is still insisting there was no tip. Essentially, they're saying they can charge the rider as much as they want and only pay me time and mileage. Of course, we here on U.P. all know that is absolutely true and I have no way to prove it was a tip and not a jacked up fare from up front pricing.

But I still think it was actually a tip because so far in my market I haven't seen any ridiculous up front pricing that blatantly screws the rider. Also on that particular trip, based on the pick up point and destination there was no way up front pricing could have calculated a route so inefficient that it would cost the rider 3 times more than it should.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

AllGold said:


> On the trip I posted earlier, Uber support is still insisting there was no tip. Essentially, they're saying they can charge the rider as much as they want and only pay me time and mileage. Of course, we here on U.P. all know that is absolutely true and I have no way to prove it was a tip and not a jacked up fare from up front pricing.
> 
> But I still think it was actually a tip because so far in my market I haven't seen any ridiculous up front pricing that blatantly screws the rider. Also on that particular trip, based on the pick up point and destination there was no way up front pricing could have calculated a route so inefficient that it would cost the rider 3 times more than it should.


Don't be surprised if Uber is charging the pax surge rate without you the driver being included in the surge calculation. What's taking place the past few months is unprecedented, and I think its going to be a bumpy ride.


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## CPUberMan (Jul 31, 2017)

I had a $10 tip today that was held up for about 2 hours. Pax tipped me while still in car to make sure I received it. Showed up 2 hours later. Sounds like it being held for fraud review could have happened. $10 is a decent tip on a $15 ride.


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## blackopps (Jul 8, 2017)

Another question. Why would the customer feel the need to tip if they think we are getting paid more because upfront pricing is much higher for the same trip compared to the past. I had a rider tell me just last week, I'm glad you guys are getting paid more now. This trip used to cost me $8 and is now $14. I got paid $6 and customer thinks we are getting paid more so why tip.


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## AuntyUber (Jul 27, 2017)

I am going to pay more attention to my payout


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## Uberingdude (May 29, 2017)

Glad to see the story got featured! I also love their choice of a feature story picture. It shows the sneaky reptiles that Uber is!



Mikedamirault said:


> You know, since I started driving for Uber a little over a year ago, I noticed Uber has made a *lot *of "mistakes", including, but not limited to...
> 
> •Mistakes with fuel/fleet card payments
> •Mistakes with referral payouts
> ...


If you are handling other people's money, you have an enormous responsibility to never make mistakes with it. Especially if you are a company that burns through 70 billion dollars in a year.


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## Kimchi (Mar 3, 2017)

Interesting that their fare estimator doesn't mention a service fee.


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> If you opted out of arbitration you will get contacted about the upfront fare overcharges (probably the ones that occured before we had to accept the new contract) and likely one about IC status in the next year or two. If you didn't opt out, you are somewhat screwed. You'll have to wait till these get done and then see if there's an attorney doing assembly line arbitrations.


How can I tell if Uber acknowledged my opting out of arbitration? I heard nothing from them when I told them I wasn't interested.


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## fxcruiser (Apr 17, 2014)

steveK2016 said:


> Lol this has nothing to do with your issues.
> 
> This is uber keeping tips and not paying the drivers. Thats a very big problem and difficuly for drivers to track, but a different problem altogether.
> 
> You have a real bad problem with tunnel vision.


Actually fellow Texan....ALL of you have a MAJOR problem.....WHY in THEE EFF do you keep participating in the scrUber scam!?!?


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## Robert finnly (Jul 1, 2017)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Also.
> 
> Take this as an example.
> "Upfront Pricing" quote.
> ...


Please tell u complained and got a extra $350 for this ride. Wow 14 hours non stop driving for that, no way



blackopps said:


> Another question. Why would the customer feel the need to tip if they think we are getting paid more because upfront pricing is much higher for the same trip compared to the past. I had a rider tell me just last week, I'm glad you guys are getting paid more now. This trip used to cost me $8 and is now $14. I got paid $6 and customer thinks we are getting paid more so why tip.


Exactly we need to get the word out, you are being charged more as a rider for no reason and the drivers are being paid less

Uber is basically charging cab rates now but we arnt getting cab driver fare.. its total bs


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Robert finnly said:


> I was wondering why uber was taking 60% of my fares.. so your telling me i actually could of been getting tips
> 
> I can't even remember the date or trips. But i rem a 45 min ride were the fare was $52 and i only got $23 . I just figured uber takes as much as it wants. Booking fee if i recall was $15 but i thought nothing of it. So what % should uber be taking at most?


28% plus booking fee.


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## Robert finnly (Jul 1, 2017)

2Cents said:


> 28% plus booking fee.


I wish


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

That's what they're allowed contractually.


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## jagman44 (Jun 1, 2017)

In the past few weeks riders have said they would add the tip to my fare, at least on three occasions it never showed I was thinking out of sight out of mind ....maybe not???!!! when the tip was added to the app I wondered if it were possible that uber would steal money in addition to screwing us Now I wouldn't put it past them... I will be more diligent about tips promised


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Fargle said:


> How can I tell if Uber acknowledged my opting out of arbitration? I heard nothing from them when I told them I wasn't interested.


 wasn't interested? Not sure what you mean. If you sent an email opting out to the address specified in the timeline then you are fine, they have recorded it and you should have a saved a copy of the email in your sent.


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## JasonB (Jan 12, 2016)

With the new 'upfront pricing' scam, Uber can basically take whatever
they want from the fare pax pay (including tips) and just pocket it.

Drivers have absolutely ZERO recourse.

Quite a few on this board will be all too happy to let you know that since
you've agreed to drive for Uber, you are voluntarily agreeing to be screwed.

Perhaps they are correct.

*"Because we can."* - TK


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

DexNex said:


> Uber is not stealing tips.
> 
> If the tip exceeds a certain % of the fare, they hold it back as a fraud prevention measure. It is then paid later. It initially shows as a "service fee" but does flow to the driver.


You talk like an insider, Claiming all those things you know but does not make any sense. I can see if a large sum of money is getting involved Uber might hold the payment for review (Even that doesn't make much sense as they can just pull out the trip history to see all the info they need), But for $10? Give me a break.
Also, How do you answer: 
1. Why doesn't customer support mention this?
2. How do you explain those rides where driver only gets paid $6 with Uber charges a $5 service fee along with $2.1 booking fee?
3. How come other drivers are not seeing tips magically appear out of no where after "the initial hold"?
Sure pax has 30 days to tip, But if they are not going to tip within the first few hours, They gonna suddenly change their mind and tip you few days later?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Aerodrifting said:


> Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals.
> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.
> Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


The Cover Photo for this article
REVEALS the little known Fact
That Lizards
Are up to no good !


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

fxcruiser said:


> Actually fellow Texan....ALL of you have a MAJOR problem.....WHY in THEE EFF do you keep participating in the scrUber scam!?!?


Im semi retired until i see rates go up or some surges bounce back. Summer was dead in atla ta, probably not great here in Dallas area. Gonna give it a shot after labor day see how it goes. Don't need the money, may do it just to get familar with the city.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Robert finnly said:


> Please tell u complained and got a extra $350 for this ride. Wow 14 hours non stop driving for that, no way
> 
> Exactly we need to get the word out, you are being charged more as a rider for no reason and the drivers are being paid less
> 
> Uber is basically charging cab rates now but we arnt getting cab driver fare.. its total bs


Didn't do the trip. 
Looked up the trip to see an example of Upfront Pricing.

Here is the weird part... Sometimes it is regular price, sometimes upfront price is the one quoted.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

I don't know why I just seem to be lucky, but I've not experienced that. Maybe it's just my paltry 20 rides per week or so. But EVERY single ride I checked, XL, Select and X have ALL been correct. In fact, when figuring upfront pricing, Uber has gained as much as they've lost on upfront pricing. At least for me, in my market everything (since TOS had to be signed) has been on the up and up. I still want my money from their UFP from before they changed the TOS.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

JimS said:


> I don't know why I just seem to be lucky, but I've not experienced that. Maybe it's just my paltry 20 rides per week or so. But EVERY single ride I checked, XL, Select and X have ALL been correct. In fact, when figuring upfront pricing, Uber has gained as much as they've lost on upfront pricing. At least for me, in my market everything (since TOS had to be signed) has been on the up and up. I still want my money from their UFP from before they changed the TOS.


Must be that people are more Savy in Savanah so they don't even try it ;-)


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## CPUberMan (Jul 31, 2017)

To be honest - I am surprised Uber allows us to see the whole fare details including how much Uber receives from the ride. That is pretty transparent in my opinion.


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## Uberingdude (May 29, 2017)

One thing is clear. The market is ready for a third competitor to enter.


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## CryBaby_Mocker (Aug 17, 2017)

You are all scared of your own shadow. Uber is not out to steal your tips.


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## POOLKiller (Oct 5, 2016)

CryBaby_Mocker said:


> You are all scared of your own shadow. Uber is not out to steal your tips.


Sure buddy. Uber is an ethical company and the driver pay is their first and only priority.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

DexNex said:


> The tip was held back as a fraud prevention measure.
> 
> Just like holding a high dollar surge run for a moment, tips that exceed a certain percentage of the fare are held in the system for a moment. There is no stealing here, there is no conspiracy to defraud you. They just don't have a separate pending tip line to show you, so it sits in the service fee bucket until being released to you. This is a non-issue.


Maybe, maybe not. If it really is a fraud prevention measure why didn't uber say anything about it in the same way a bank holds your money for a few days when you deposit a check? After seeing how uber rips off pax with upfront pricing I will believe just about anything.


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

yep I had a person promise tip in app... no tip showed up, and unusual absence of any tips at all.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

DexNex said:


> I see delayed tips all the time. They move from one pool to the other. No biggie. Often they show on the weekly payout along with other payments (i.e boost). Uber is under no obligation to share its fraud prevention techniques, but know that anytime a tip gets close to 100% of the fare, it is going to trigger a hold.


If it really is a fraud prevention measure they have an obligation to tell us. It's our money!!


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Mikedamirault said:


> You know, since I started driving for Uber a little over a year ago, I noticed Uber has made a *lot *of "mistakes", including, but not limited to...
> 
> •Mistakes with fuel/fleet card payments
> •Mistakes with referral payouts
> ...


These so-called mistakes are the result of software which I doubt these are programming errors the directions given by management to appear one way but when caught they can wiggle out of it and say it was a mistake


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## Rideshare.work (Jul 26, 2017)

I take the same fare all the time and service fee doubled on tip matching day, the 15th.

Uber support bringing up tips being matched on the 23rd? Today? Seems like the run around to avoid any wrongdoing



Oscar Levant said:


> These so-called mistakes are the result of software which I doubt these are programming errors the directions given by management to appear one way but when caught they can wiggle out of it and say it was a mistake


I'm about to stop using their fuel card out of worry.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

Rideshare.work said:


> I take the same fare all the time and service fee doubled on tip matching day, the 15th.
> 
> Uber support bringing up tips being matched on the 23rd? Today? Seems like the run around to avoid any wrongdoing


I am glad Uber enabled tips in the app but they are using tip matching to distract people from the much more fundamental issue. Upfront pricing has disconnected drivers pay from what the pax pays. It is a devious way to raise fares and keep the raise to itself.

Upfront pricing means that drivers will never benefit from fare increases unless uber deems it necessary to increase driver pay. Before upfront pricing drivers would benefit from any fare increases. Now we are cut out of the supply and demand equation for rideshare demand and are simply another "thing" uber buys.

It is very much in our long term interest to get pax to get pissed off about upfront pricing and to demand a return to time/distance pricing.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Aerodrifting said:


> Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals.
> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.
> Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


I don't know. My first thought is that Uber is not stealing tips. I checked this whole month and found over 30 tips. Now I will review each one for any unusual fees.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

goneubering said:


> I don't know. My first thought is that Uber is not stealing tips. I checked this whole month and found over 30 tips. Now I will review each one for any unusual fees.


You need to look at the service fees where you did NOT receive a tip. I did and found several that look wrong.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

brianboru said:


> You need to look at the service fees where you did NOT receive a tip. I did and found several that look wrong.


Okay. In addition to the 30+ tips that I did correctly receive, I also checked my 20 most recent trips over 10 miles. They all look okay to me except it appears that Uber might have shorted themselves on three of the trips.

Here's my non-scientific opinion based in over 50 rides. Uber processes many thousands of rides every day. Most are fine. Once in a while it's possible that their programming is not perfect and a tip could end up going to the wrong place.

I'm personally satisfied that Uber is not in the business of stealing tips from us. That would be exceptionally stupid.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

goneubering said:


> Okay. In addition to the 30+ tips that I did correctly receive, I also checked my 20 most recent trips over 10 miles. They all look okay to me except it appears that Uber might have shorted themselves on three of the trips.
> 
> Here's my non-scientific opinion based in over 50 rides. Uber processes many thousands of rides every day. Most are fine. Once in a while it's possible that their programming is not perfect and a tip could end up going to the wrong place.
> 
> I'm personally satisfied that Uber is not in the business of stealing tips from us. That would be exceptionally stupid.


I don't think they are stealing them either but I do think they have a manual step in the processing of the tips where the errors occur. (See my earlier posts) It is the only way to square what uber says with what the drivers have shown us.

With the computational capacity uber has available not fixing a process where any error will accrue to uber is essentially theft. So they aren't "stealing" per se. They are simply not fixing a known problem because they lose by fixing it and gain by putting it off. Don't forget this is the ethically challenged company that is foisting upfront pricing on the riders.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

brianboru said:


> I don't think they are stealing them either but I do think they have a manual step in the processing of the tips where the errors occur. (See my earlier posts) It is the only way to square what uber says with what the drivers have shown us.
> 
> With the computational capacity uber has available not fixing a process where any error will accrue to uber is essentially theft. So they aren't "stealing" per se. They are simply not fixing a known problem because they lose by fixing it and gain by putting it off. Don't forget this is the ethically challenged company that is foisting upfront pricing on the riders.


I have no evidence to support your idea, but I will say that Uber's support team is the worst I've ever seen. Furthermore, it's really dumb if they actually inserted a manual component into their tip management.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DexNex said:


> Uber is not stealing tips.
> 
> If the tip exceeds a certain % of the fare, they hold it back as a fraud prevention measure. It is then paid later. It initially shows as a "service fee" but does flow to the driver.


I don't believe that and it wouldn't matter anyway. Fraud is THEIR issue, not ours. Even if the ride is paid with a stolen card, we should get paid.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

goneubering said:


> I have no evidence to support your idea, but I will say that Uber's support team is the worst I've ever seen. Furthermore, it's really dumb if they actually inserted a manual component into their tip management.


I think the way it works is the algorithm reports the tip is added to the ride by the pax and then someone has to allocate the tip to a category in the history of the ride. The allocation is done by the same Indian employees who cut and past those email responses we get. They are used to calling tips service charges. It is when the allocation is made that the error may occur. If someone is used to calling "tips" "service charges" you can see the reason for the error.

Otherwise how do you explain the inconsistency in drivers being credited with tips? It doesn't happen with every tip.

Just to take it a step further it could be that the ride history has two "service charge " catagories. One called say "servicechargeuber" and another called "servicechargedriver" or some similar arrangement and the similarity causes the error. If there were not a manual input somewhere the error wouldn't be sporadic.

BTW what wouldn't surprise me is that uber is aware of the problem and chooses not to remove the manual step because errors accrue to its advantage.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

DexNex said:


> Uber is not stealing tips.
> 
> If the tip exceeds a certain % of the fare, they hold it back as a fraud prevention measure. It is then paid later. It initially shows as a "service fee" but does flow to the driver.


How do you know that?



brianboru said:


> I think the way it works is the algorithm reports the tip is added to the ride by the pax and then someone has to allocate the tip to a category in the history of the ride. The allocation is done by the same Indian employees who cut and past those email responses we get. They are used to calling tips service charges. It is when the allocation is made that the error may occur. If someone is used to calling "tips" "service charges" you can see the reason for the error.
> 
> Otherwise how do you explain the inconsistency in drivers being credited with tips? It doesn't happen with every tip.
> 
> ...


Sounds like an extremely lame way to run a business, especially a tech business, but I can't think of a better explanation.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Robert finnly said:


> Wow this actually makes sense. How is uber allowed to do this by law?


As Edmund Burke once said:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

CryBaby_Mocker said:


> You are all scared of your own shadow. Uber is not out to steal your tips.


I never cease to be amazed at the naivety of a newbie.


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## AllGold (Sep 16, 2016)

brianboru said:


> I think the way it works is the algorithm reports the tip is added to the ride by the pax and then someone has to allocate the tip to a category in the history of the ride. The allocation is done by the same Indian employees who cut and past those email responses we get. They are used to calling tips service charges. It is when the allocation is made that the error may occur. If someone is used to calling "tips" "service charges" you can see the reason for the error.


That would be an extremely stupid way to do it. So yeah, that's probably how Uber is doing it.


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## RIDE (Aug 24, 2017)

Aerodrifting said:


> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.


Undoubtedly this is the case in at least some events as Uber's California class action lawsuit includes references to this (listing increased fees as a way to keep more of a driver's cut).


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

CPUberMan said:


> To be honest - I am surprised Uber allows us to see the whole fare details including how much Uber receives from the ride. That is pretty transparent in my opinion.


It would seem to be transparent, I agree, but we are talking about a company that has a very long and dubious history of deceiving their driver "partners". I oftentimes wonder if those fare details they show us are the real fare details. More importantly, why doesn't Uber just instantly show us their percentage of the total fare and our percentage of the total fare immediately after every ride and as a running total for the week? Something that has true visibility and true transparency. It would be very easy to do but they don't dare do it -- they would lose too many drivers. Transparency?


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

brianboru said:


> I don't think they are stealing them either but I do think they have a manual step in the processing of the tips where the errors occur. (See my earlier posts) It is the only way to square what uber says with what the drivers have shown us.
> 
> With the computational capacity uber has available not fixing a process where any error will accrue to uber is essentially theft. So they aren't "stealing" per se. They are simply not fixing a known problem because they lose by fixing it and gain by putting it off. Don't forget this is the ethically challenged company that is foisting upfront pricing on the riders.


That excuse is not going to fly. 
Uber is a tech company, You think they are using human labor to add or calculate each tip? Given the number of drivers in the nation, Do you have any clue how much human labor is required and how much it could cost to hire those people doing those manual work? 
How come all those errors are found in favor of Uber? 
"We forgot to reimburse your toll"
"We forgot to apply a cleaning fee"
"We forgot to apply cancellation fee"
"We forgot to apply tips"
How about for once "We accidentally forgot to add service charge to your account"?


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

Friendly Jack said:


> It would seem to be transparent, I agree, but we are talking about a company that has a very long and dubious history of deceiving their driver "partners". I oftentimes wonder if those fare details they show us are the real fare details. More importantly, why doesn't Uber just instantly show us their percentage of the total fare and our percentage of the total fare immediately after every ride and as a running total for the week? Something that has true visibility and true transparency. It would be very easy to do but they don't dare do it -- they would lose too many drivers. Transparency?


They used to show the complete gross, net, and percent taken out up until last November or so. I don't remember exactly. When I complained about it, I was told that the new way is easier to understand.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

Aerodrifting said:


> That excuse is not going to fly.
> Uber is a tech company, You think they are using human labor to add or calculate each tip? Given the number of drivers in the nation, Do you have any clue how much human labor is required and how much it could cost to hire those people doing those manual work?


Yes. But I think you are missing my point. They have created and are using a system where all errors accrue to uber and by doing so and not fixing the system they have a smokescreen to deny theft per se. It is theft by another name.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Robert finnly said:


> Wow this actually makes sense. How is uber allowed to do this by law?


They're not. This is theft.


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## Chickie (Jun 26, 2017)

I have noticed where Uber had made more than me on some trips. Hmmm going to have to watch them more carefully


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## czervik7 (Oct 16, 2015)

My tips have gone DOWN since in-app tipping on Uber. We just had a double-your-tip day last week. It was supposed to have been announced to riders. On that day I made it a point to drive earlier and longer hours. I received NO tips that day except for what I got in cash or on Lyft. It seemed very fishy to me. Now I want to review all my transactions looking for monkey business. 

I already know they never pay tolls automatically and I have to come back the next day and copy my toll receipt and fight for a couple bucks each time.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

czervik7 said:


> My tips have gone DOWN since in-app tipping on Uber. We just had a double-your-tip day last week. It was supposed to have been announced to riders. On that day I made it a point to drive earlier and longer hours. I received NO tips that day except for what I got in cash or on Lyft. It seemed very fishy to me. Now I want to review all my transactions looking for monkey business.
> 
> I already know they never pay tolls automatically and I have to come back the next day and copy my toll receipt and fight for a couple bucks each time.


LOL. Somebody actually fell for it.


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## Mikedamirault (Jun 22, 2016)

AllGold said:


> That would be an extremely stupid way to do it. So yeah, that's probably how Uber is doing it.


Yeah, I agree, it is completely stupid

There really shouldn't be any human involvement at all, a tip is a tip, the pax/customer isn't tipping Uber, they aren't tipping the government, they aren't tipping the restaurant (UberEATS), they are tipping the driver and only the driver, it should be 1:1 straight to the driver

This shouldn't be too hard to be done digitally, pax tips say $2, that $2 shows up to the driver as a $2 tip for a given trip and is added to the driver's weekly earnings

Giving human involvement only opens the door for human error and greed (computers are never greedy, AI isn't smart enough for greed yet, also computers never make mistakes, you get out what you put in), the fact there is any human involvement in the in-app tipping system at all (assuming there is) means that there was malicious intention since the beginning


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## Profiteer (Mar 19, 2017)

Ive been telling Pax that want to tip to please tip in cash if possible as Uber/Lyft steals a cut for themselves.
I HATE THIEVES!


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> View attachment 149595
> 
> View attachment 149596
> 
> ...


The service fee is fixed. Supposed to be 20 or 25% of fare. IF you do xl, it's 28%. Do the math and demand your tips.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

RaleighUber said:


> The service fee is fixed. Supposed to be 20 or 25% of fare. IF you do xl, it's 28%. Do the math and demand your tips.


Untrue as of May 2017 addendum.


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## Torin (Apr 26, 2017)

I am currently dealing with them with them taking a tip as of now.

I do eats only cashed put last night and had the normal 50 cent fee after. I logged on today to some has tipped you 2$ and then my balance was 1.50. Cool half way through the night I notice my cash out balance is lower then what I made today.

By a whole 50 cents how can that be since I started the day a up.

So pretty much they took my tip out and then took another cash out fee on top of that. The flying hell.

Also if call the "support" number it's a joke.

For real we just need to sue these pricks plain and simple. Maybe then these weird things go away. 

I'll come back once "support" wants to get to me since over the phone they couldn't fix the issue...


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

Profiteer said:


> Ive been telling Pax that want to tip to please tip in cash if possible as Uber/Lyft steals a cut for themselves.
> I HATE THIEVES!


Set up a sting . Give passenger $5 in cash then ask passenger to add that $5.00 as a tip because you suspect Uber is stealing your tip money . Then take out your phone and video tape the $5.00 tip that was just added . Check after trip if tip was there . If not contact an Attorney and let the Attorney ride as passenger and have Attorney do all the video taping from beginning to end . You now have a valid lawsuit with proof that Uber is pocketing your tip money .



Goduckies said:


> Do you get boost? Quest? They have to pay for it somehow... as to tips If They steal it, that is crap.


Set up a sting . Give passenger $5 in cash then ask passenger to add that $5.00 as a tip because you suspect Uber is stealing your tip money . Then take out your phone and video tape the $5.00 tip that was just added . Check after trip if tip was there . If tip not there, contact an Attorney and let the Attorney ride as passenger and have Attorney do all the video taping from beginning to end . You now have a valid lawsuit with proof that Uber is pocketing your tip money .



moJohoJo said:


> Set up a sting . Give passenger $5 in cash then ask passenger to add that $5.00 as a tip because you suspect Uber is stealing your tip money . Then take out your phone and video tape the $5.00 tip that was just added . Check after trip if tip was there . If not contact an Attorney and let the Attorney ride as passenger and have Attorney do all the video taping from beginning to end . You now have a valid lawsuit with proof that Uber is pocketing your tip money .
> 
> Set up a sting . Give passenger $5 in cash then ask passenger to add that $5.00 as a tip because you suspect Uber is stealing your tip money . Then take out your phone and video tape the $5.00 tip that was just added . Check after trip if tip was there . If tip not there, contact an Attorney and let the Attorney ride as passenger and have Attorney do all the video taping from beginning to end . You now have a valid lawsuit with proof that Uber is pocketing your tip money .


Don't tip yourself with a dollar . Uber is more likely to give you the dollar tip because it's no big deal . Do it with at least $5.00 .


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## Bpr2 (Feb 21, 2017)

Is this part of the same thing? Huge service fee.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

DexNex said:


> Uber is not stealing tips.
> 
> If the tip exceeds a certain % of the fare, they hold it back as a fraud prevention measure. It is then paid later. It initially shows as a "service fee" but does flow to the driver.


I still would like to know where you got this very intriguing information.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Untrue as of May 2017 addendum.


We need a UNION !


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## 221CNY_UBERdrver (Aug 1, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> We need a UNION !


Unions are great for some things, not so much fot others. For us, not so good. Union fees would be as bad or worse than losing tips. Back when unions took care of medical it might have been worth it.


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## Smokenburn (Oct 23, 2015)

2 years of Uber and it's looking like I may be filing for multiple civil cases.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Robert finnly said:


> I was wondering why uber was taking 60% of my fares.. so your telling me i actually could of been getting tips
> 
> I can't even remember the date or trips. But i rem a 45 min ride were the fare was $52 and i only got $23 . I just figured uber takes as much as it wants. Booking fee if i recall was $15 but i thought nothing of it. So what % should uber be taking at most?


We have records of all of our trips which include fare breakdown details. You should be reviewing every single ride you do before Monday at 4 am - I've found several earnings reductions where Uber simply removed some of my earnings because of lies passengers tried to tell them about me starting the trip too soon, or various other things in order to get some of their money back. Every single time I've contacted Uber about these erroneous removals of my earnings, they apologize and return the money. I've told Uber numerous times to contact me before ever touching my earnings if a passenger makes any kind of claim about my ride. They continue to react upon hearing a passenger's claim without notifying me and instead take money from my earnings without getting my input. NO OTHER COMPANY OR INDUSTRY TAKES PAY AWAY FROM WORKERS WITHOUT GETTING ALL SIDES OF THE STORY. This is illegal and goes against all employment laws. Uber is not to be trusted- everyone should double check their earnings transactions on a weekly basis.



touberornottouber said:


> If true they are asking for criminal charges and a massive lawsuit.
> 
> Also if you ask them to make any adjustment they take it out of YOUR share and do many times what you request.
> 
> For instance once my phone died during a forced upgrade so I couldn't end the trip right away. It was five extra minutes and I just stayed in the parking lot. To be fair to the passenger I contacted Uber in the app and requested that they refund 5 minutes of time to the rider. This should have been 12 cents * 5 minutes = 60 cents and from the total fare (so maybe 40 cents deduction for me). Instead they took $5 out of MY SHARE ONLY and I ended up getting like $2 for the trip (which is under the minimum fare anyway). I didn't even bother to write in again over it but I notice this happens every time I request an adjustment. It is extremely scummy and is basically fraud on their part.


You absolutely need to have them correct this!! They will actually fix it if they see you're serious about getting your earnings back. They fet away with these "mistakes " far too much and I beg of you - please- even though it can be a pain in the ass - PLEASE push back every single time they pull this crap. You deserve what you earned and I'm afraid too many people let them get away with it.

It's totally annoying, I know. You should see some of my communications with Uber, I have gone back-and-forth up to 20 times with them when they have tried to refuse a cancellation fee where I have screenshots -total, undeniable proof- over the course of 6 minutes I was waiting for a passenger and situations similar to that, I will not let them get away with anything because that's exactly what they're hoping will happen if they drag it out long enough. Hell, I'll go on forever, it's not the measly four dollars, it's the principle of the matter and there's no way I'm going to let them keep the four dollars that they're charging the passenger for canceling the ride - that is not their money!


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## Leo1983 (Jul 3, 2017)

Why are you guys driving for uber? I don't get it they pay waaaay under minimum wage.


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## zilan23 (Aug 14, 2017)

Something is going on...i looked into a few of my fares and noticed they took over $6.00 on a $15 fare. On another they took over 30% instead of the 25% they're supposed to.

Is there a way to download your trips into an excel spreadsheet? It's going to take a bunch of time to go through every fare...



czervik7 said:


> My tips have gone DOWN since in-app tipping on Uber. We just had a double-your-tip day last week. It was supposed to have been announced to riders. On that day I made it a point to drive earlier and longer hours. I received NO tips that day except for what I got in cash or on Lyft. It seemed very fishy to me. Now I want to review all my transactions looking for monkey business.
> 
> I already know they never pay tolls automatically and I have to come back the next day and copy my toll receipt and fight for a couple bucks each time.


Yeah, something's up...I only received $3 in tips on this day...my lowest performance day since tipping was announced. Idk. I'm tired of this company and constantly having to do all this extra work to ensure I'm paid properly. Is it really worth all the time and energy?


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Julescase said:


> You absolutely need to have them correct this!! They will actually fix it if they see you're serious about getting your earnings back. They fet away with these "mistakes " far too much and I beg of you - please- even though it can be a pain in the ass - PLEASE push back every single time they pull this crap. You deserve what you earned and I'm afraid too many people let them get away with it.
> 
> It's totally annoying, I know. You should see some of my communications with Uber, I have gone back-and-forth up to 20 times with them when they have tried to refuse a cancellation fee where I have screenshots -total, undeniable proof- over the course of 6 minutes I was waiting for a passenger and situations similar to that, I will not let them get away with anything because that's exactly what they're hoping will happen if they drag it out long enough. Hell, I'll go on forever, it's not the measly four dollars, it's the principle of the matter and there's no way I'm going to let them keep the four dollars that they're charging the passenger for canceling the ride - that is not their money!


You're absolutely right. What makes it even worse is in their response where they informed me they adjusted the fare (taking out $5 from MY share versus 60 cents from the TOTAL share) they thanked me for my honesty and professionalism! <smh>


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## zilan23 (Aug 14, 2017)

RaleighUber said:


> The service fee is fixed. Supposed to be 20 or 25% of fare. IF you do xl, it's 28%. Do the math and demand your tips.


Uber is telling me that the fee is 20-30%. What a crock!

I'm currently going back and forth with support...I had a fare that was 10.23 miles, took 19.90 minutes and had 1.4 minutes of wait time. The mileage rate here in Phoenix is 95¢ per mile and the time rate is 9¢ per minute. By doing the math, the rider should have been charged $13.89 once the $2.25 booking fee is added in....but they were charged $17.50. Uber took $6.22 as a service fee when they should have only taken $2.01. They keep telling me that the $17.50 is what they estimated the trip would be...even still, the service fee on that should only be $3.81. So why was $6.22 taken? Likely a $3 tip was misapplied or something.


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## zilan23 (Aug 14, 2017)

So support has decided to start ignoring me and every time I send a reply they just mark it as resolved and don't respond. I can't believe they treat us like this...so much for 180-days of change. What a crock. Anyway, has anyone gone down to their local greenlight hub? I'm thinking about going through all my fares and then bringing them proof.

I do think we should pursue a class action lawsuit because they're definitely up to something.



Smokenburn said:


> 2 years of Uber and it's looking like I may be filing for multiple civil cases.


I may need to pick your brain...



Bpr2 said:


> Is this part of the same thing? Huge service fee.


 Looks like it!


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

goneubering said:


> I still would like to know where you got this very intriguing information.


He's probably a shill, tons of shills mask themselves as drivers here.


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## zilan23 (Aug 14, 2017)

Here's an interesting one...this fare shows a $26.19 service fee but it's because I received a $20 cleaning fee. It shows under the service fee but I received that money.


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## Mr Blue (Aug 30, 2017)

Wow... I have been with Lyft for 4 months and had none of these issues... I noticed the 45% charges in fares going to UBER the first night. I know now why so many customers and drivers wont support UBER; Greedy Capitalist Manipulative stock holders!
Class Action Lawsuit?


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## RaleighNick (Feb 18, 2017)

Mr Blue said:


> Wow... I have been with Lyft for 4 months and had none of these issues... I noticed the 45% charges in fares going to UBER the first night. I know now why so many customers and drivers wont support UBER; Greedy Capitalist Manipulative stock holders!
> Class Action Lawsuit?


Lyft is just better at hiding it. Or less brazen. Don't make the mistake of thinking lyft is any different.


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## Mr Blue (Aug 30, 2017)

They may be however here is data from last nights rides in the same zone.
Uber; 12:31am 3.2miles 8.5min $6.57Fare $3.81Me $2.76Uber I get 57% of the fare.
Lyft 12:10am 4miles 7min $5.69Fare $$4.27Me $1.42Lyft I get 75% of the fare.
Hummm... Those % differences have been consistent since I started with Uber 2 weeks ago.


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## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

Grand Master B said:


> a call for class action lawsuit is needed. uber needs to open up their books. no more "oops, there was an error" bs.


Class action gets you a dime the rest to lawyers.


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Class action serves as a point in which they will not **** with you ever again, it's the ultimate **** you.

Yes you won't get paid but least it will never happen again.


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## TheMilkyWay (Oct 18, 2014)

Aerodrifting said:


> Long story short, Driver saw pax entered a $10 tip but never received it, Instead Uber rewarded itself with a $12.45 booking fee. I am glad the fella fought and got his money back from the greedy company. Actually greedy is an understatement, More like criminals.
> And you hear all those stories about "pax promised to tip me through app but never did", Maybe they actually tipped, But Uber stole your tip just like others mentioned.
> Ever wonder why there were those rides where pax paid $10, You got $4, And somehow on top of $2.1 booking fee Uber gets another $4 "service fee"? 2 out of that 4 could have been your tip.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-tried-to-pocket-my-tip-last-night.192664/


OMG what are "we" doing about this? Now I have to go back and look at my stubs for last few weeks?


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

zilan23 said:


> Uber is telling me that the fee is 20-30%. What a crock!
> 
> I'm currently going back and forth with support...I had a fare that was 10.23 miles, took 19.90 minutes and had 1.4 minutes of wait time. The mileage rate here in Phoenix is 95¢ per mile and the time rate is 9¢ per minute. By doing the math, the rider should have been charged $13.89 once the $2.25 booking fee is added in....but they were charged $17.50. Uber took $6.22 as a service fee when they should have only taken $2.01. They keep telling me that the $17.50 is what they estimated the trip would be...even still, the service fee on that should only be $3.81. So why was $6.22 taken? Likely a $3 tip was misapplied or something.


Jesus Christ, what part of "The old percentages mean NOTHING anymore" do you people not understand? There is NO percentage they adhere to now. The old percentages mean absolutely nothing, and do not factor into their service fee whatsoever anymore. What they charge pax is completely unconnected to what they pay us based off of. We get time and distance at the rates for our area. The pax gets charged off of a BS "estimated" time and distance... Which just so happens to usually be the longest/shittiest/most expensive route possible. They keep the difference, no matter how large or how small. The percentage that can be ends up varying wildly. The old percentages have ZERO bearing on anything.

How do some of you people that post on here not understand this after it has been this way for a long time now????????????

In my estimation they are NOT stealing our tips. That is just people being delusional and apparently not understanding how the new fee structure works at all. They're not "scamming" us in any way as far as regular ride payments go (tolls etc do have issues in some places), other than the new shitty upfront pricing for pax that we aren't getting a piece of... But that's all above board in that we were told about it. It's a shitty thing to do, but scamming implies lying about it, which they are not. They're being totally upfront about how they're screwing us.



Jesusdrivesuber said:


> He's probably a shill, tons of shills mask themselves as drivers here.


Don't be daft. He's just another Seattle driver who posts on the Seattle board all the time. I've actually seen him in the flesh out on the streets even.

He doesn't have magical insider information... He's just smarter than 99% of drivers and pays VERY close attention to how the apps work, how payment stuff works, etc. He's a full time pro who makes bank driving a Suburban in one of the most expensive markets in the country, so it is worth it for him to figure out exactly how the system functions. In short he just uses common sense to see how shit works by observing it, which apparently is too tough for half the people on this board to figure out. You pay close attention to the app and what it does when etc and magically you can connect the dots and figure out how the system works, even without actually "knowing" for sure how it is setup. It's not that tough.

He's probably the smartest/most on point driver I have ever seen posting on here in all honesty, so don't just go saying somebody is a shill because they can use logic and observation to figure shit out! LOL



Mr Blue said:


> They may be however here is data from last nights rides in the same zone.
> Uber; 12:31am 3.2miles 8.5min $6.57Fare $3.81Me $2.76Uber I get 57% of the fare.
> Lyft 12:10am 4miles 7min $5.69Fare $$4.27Me $1.42Lyft I get 75% of the fare.
> Hummm... Those % differences have been consistent since I started with Uber 2 weeks ago.


I'm not saying Uber ISN'T completely screwing us... I could certainly believe it with them... But I'm not ready to say they 110% are either. At least not that they're screwing us super hard anyway. It's most likely just a little light screwing. LOL

I have seen PLENTY of rides where Uber screwed themselves with upfront pricing too. But you never hear drivers complaining about that right??? Only when it works against their favor. I've seen Uber lose like $15+ on a single ride of mine before. It seems like much of the time their cut is larger than it used to be, but I have not seen a single driver ever who has taken the time to input all data from 100% of their rides over saaay a week into a spreadsheet and figure out the math to actually prove it one way or another. Until somebody does none of us know if Uber really upped their cut at all, let alone by a huge amount.

If I had to guess I'd say they're jacking us a bit, but I don't think they're taking more than half on all our rides either, because my ride history just doesn't show that from the spot checking I have done. My last ride I did last night was basically spot on for a 28% cut, which was the old rate for XL. The one before that I came in at a LOWER effective rate than 28%, which means they screwed themselves versus the old payout system. I've also had plenty where they took 50% plus too. It cuts both ways. If I had to guess I'd say they maybe jacked their average cut like 10% or something on the sly with upfront pricing, but they didn't double it to 50% every time or any such nonsense like some people think.

What I have observed is that on shorter trips they're more likely to be a higher percentage than they used to be. On most longer trips their system generally seems to get closer to a real world time/distance estimate. Maybe this is just due to the geography around Seattle or something (we have some jacked roads in some parts of the city, but long trips usually use the highways and are likely to end up being about the same no matter which way you go), but this is the most consistent thing I have noticed with upfront pricing. There is no consistent doubling of their fees though.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> WOW, documentation of a tip steal. I know one of the attorneys doing a class action, I'll send this his way and tell them to consider contacting the OP.
> 
> Come, come now! I feel like I'm being listened to. Listened to and IGNORED!!! It's 180 days of broom stick!
> 
> How would we know this and how could we possibly trust them?


There is simply no need to mislead or mislabel the tips as service fee.


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## Jucepe (Jan 1, 2017)

And it just so happened the rider also told me a $10 tip was added and....Uber service fee exceeds my earnings by $5


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## Lewis2 (May 21, 2017)

Uber Can't Ditch Drivers' Pricing Class Action, Judge Says.
Go read it at News section. When Uber's service fee is more than 35% after booking fee, there are something wrong with it.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Jesus Christ, what part of "The old percentages mean NOTHING anymore" do you people not understand? There is NO percentage they adhere to now. The old percentages mean absolutely nothing, and do not factor into their service fee whatsoever anymore. What they charge pax is completely unconnected to what they pay us based off of. We get time and distance at the rates for our area. The pax gets charged off of a BS "estimated" time and distance... Which just so happens to usually be the longest/shittiest/most expensive route possible. They keep the difference, no matter how large or how small. The percentage that can be ends up varying wildly. The old percentages have ZERO bearing on anything.
> 
> How do some of you people that post on here not understand this after it has been this way for a long time now????????????
> 
> ...


I created a very detailed spreadsheet to analyze all of my rides -- with and without booking fee -- since the advent of up-front pricing. What you say is for the most part correct. Overall, Uber is taking a higher percentage than before UFP, by approximately 5%. The biggest markups by Uber on my rides have been those to and from the airports and other popular destinations. Surprisingly, there has been a significant number of my rides where Uber has gotten less than their pre-UFP cut. Also strange is that on shorter trips from the same area on the same date Uber's cut has varied wildy, anywhere from a loss (negative %) to more than 54% exclusive of booking fee. I suspect that they are finding it difficult to gouge all of their riders all of the time. The worst of this situation, in my opinion, is that UFP is clearly at odds with surge pricing and is surely the reason we are seeing decreased surge in most markets.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

ntcindetroit said:


> There is simply no need to mislead or mislabel the tips as service fee.


Agreed, it should be labeled more clearly as "pending tip" or something if they are in fact holding the funds for a short period of time as Dex said they are... That said, IF they are always paying out correctly there is still no wrongdoing on their part, other than labeling it poorly for a limited period of time. I haven't ever noticed an issue on this front personally so I can't comment other than what others have said on here.



Friendly Jack said:


> I created a very detailed spreadsheet to analyze all of my rides -- with and without booking fee -- since the advent of up-front pricing. What you say is for the most part correct. Overall, Uber is taking a higher percentage than before UFP, by approximately 5%. The biggest markups by Uber on my rides have been those to and from the airports and other popular destinations. Surprisingly, there has been a significant number of my rides where Uber has gotten less than their pre-UFP cut. Also strange is that on shorter trips from the same area on the same date Uber's cut has varied wildy, anywhere from a loss (negative %) to more than 54% exclusive of booking fee. I suspect that they are finding it difficult to gouge all of their riders all of the time. The worst of this situation, in my opinion, is that UFP is clearly at odds with surge pricing and is surely the reason we are seeing decreased surge in most markets.


Well I'm glad somebody has bothered to do it! Honestly I'd have expected them to be jacking us even harder than a mere 5% increase, but obviously getting jacked less hard is good! I wouldn't be surprised if they were devious enough to start it out low like that and just inch it up over time though. So I hope others do the same data entry you have done in the future to check up on it.

I think UFP is a stupid idea, and not in anybodies favor but Uber's. It is weird to see the specifics of how they have implemented though. As I said above, my long rides tend to be about spot on to old commission rates. Shorter ones can be all over the map, either high or low. I think sometimes when it varies widely with the same start/stop locations it must be their estimates of traffic, choosing different routes that time even though it's the same basic trip etc. I don't think they've been so bold as to literally be charging different people different rates YET... But I think that could be a thing in the future.

As for surge, it has certainly died down around here. I'm not sure if it has any relationship to UFP, or if most markets are just getting more flooded with drivers, or if they just directly changed the surge algorithms. Nobody knows but Uber. I know here they split XL surge rates back off from surging in union with X, which has hit me hard as an XL driver. There is correlation with UFP, but we don't have proof of causation. They could also just be charging pax surge, and not passing it along according to the new contracts too. Again, no way to know other than catch them in the act.

Hopefully in their attempts at improving PR they will throw us a few bones and fix some more of our many complaints. Tips are nice, 6 destination filters a day is nice, who knows what actually decent thing they'll do next.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Agreed, it should be labeled more clearly as "pending tip" or something if they are in fact holding the funds for a short period of time as Dex said they are... That said, IF they are always paying out correctly there is still no wrongdoing on their part, other than labeling it poorly for a limited period of time. I haven't ever noticed an issue on this front personally so I can't comment other than what others have said on here.
> 
> Well I'm glad somebody has bothered to do it! Honestly I'd have expected them to be jacking us even harder than a mere 5% increase, but obviously getting jacked less hard is good! I wouldn't be surprised if they were devious enough to start it out low like that and just inch it up over time though. So I hope others do the same data entry you have done in the future to check up on it.
> 
> ...


...and I left out the most important detail, the actual percentages... Since May 22, 2017 (I am a 20% fee driver):

UberX: Excluding booking fee 24.82%, including booking fee 32.21%
Pool: Excluding booking fee 1.01%, including booking fee 14.28% (small sample size of 12 rides, only 1 matched; I usually don't do Pool)

I never really thought about it until I posted and edited this, but Uber is actually taking from me what a new driver would approximately pay (25%)! Interesting.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Friendly Jack said:


> ...and I left out the most important detail, the actual percentages... Since May 22, 2017 (I am a 20% fee driver):
> 
> UberX: Excluding booking fee 24.82%, including booking fee 32.21%
> Pool: Excluding booking fee 1.01%, including booking fee 14.28% (small sample size of 12 rides, only 1 matched; I usually don't do Pool)
> ...


That is interesting actually. Since they can't change the up front price based on whether a new or old driver gets the call, that means in effect customer prices haven't really gone up much more than perhaps that couple percent on average... Of course newer driver pay is still less than what you get, since they converted our "post commission" per mile/minute fees based off of whether we were 20% or 25%.

I still think it is weird how their system seems to be so wrong, and jacking customers, on certain types of rides, and then so spot on on others. I feel like it has to be intentional on their part to be jacking people on short rides. It's effectively a shadow minimum fare increase almost, but of course not passed onto us. If the overall averages are working out the same though it's almost like they may have raised the minimum fare for short rides, but almost reduced effective rates on longer ones since they're still almost exactly at the old rates in my experience. Not an entirely unreasonable thing to do honestly, but it would be nice if we got a piece of that pie!


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Uber is a company that will never do the right thing for there drivers, Drivers not receiving there tips is nothing new dealing with this company, I was a driver for a year and half before i called it quits 6 months ago, There are delivery gigs out there that pay more and you will receive your tips.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> That is interesting actually. Since they can't change the up front price based on whether a new or old driver gets the call, that means in effect customer prices haven't really gone up much more than perhaps that couple percent on average... Of course newer driver pay is still less than what you get, since they converted our "post commission" per mile/minute fees based off of whether we were 20% or 25%.
> 
> I still think it is weird how their system seems to be so wrong, and jacking customers, on certain types of rides, and then so spot on on others. I feel like it has to be intentional on their part to be jacking people on short rides. It's effectively a shadow minimum fare increase almost, but of course not passed onto us. If the overall averages are working out the same though it's almost like they may have raised the minimum fare for short rides, but almost reduced effective rates on longer ones since they're still almost exactly at the old rates in my experience. Not an entirely unreasonable thing to do honestly, but it would be nice if we got a piece of that pie!


I will be happy to send you a copy of my spreadsheet, Ballard_Driver, if you are interested. All I need is an email address for you and need to know if you are 20% or 25% (used to compute the excess amount paid to Uber, and also to apply conditional coloring of computed Uber %).


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Friendly Jack said:


> I will be happy to send you a copy of my spreadsheet, Ballard_Driver, if you are interested. All I need is an email address for you and need to know if you are 20% or 25% (used to compute the excess amount paid to Uber, and also to apply conditional coloring of computed Uber %).


Thanks for the offer! I keep meticulous track of my daily income/miles/repair expenses etc, but haven't gone into trying to track individual ride info. It would just be too much work! Additionally complicating it for me is I am an XL driver, so I was at 28% for XL rides the whole time, and do Lyft and Lyft Plus as well.

I actually kind of got screwed for X rates though... I started the sign up process before they raised commission to 25%, BUUUT I didn't get approved to drive until they rolled out the 25% commission, and they put me at the 25% rate for X. This was literally a difference of a couple days because I failed my first vehicle inspection for a couple dink little repairs they wanted done. If I had passed the first inspection I would have been at 20%. Since I do very few X rides I never bothered to complain to them to see if I could be changed to 20% rate since I'd signed up before 25% went into effect. On Lyft I am 20% across the board.

So I think I'll pass on the spreadsheet, but I hope you do some periodic updates on your data entry to see if they ever start jacking us harder.


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