# About that 'no delivery after 9:30pm' policy...



## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

Got my weekly summary today and the packages I returned due to the curfew were definitely counted against me. So, yeah...


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Typical Amazon behavior of talking out of both sides of its mouth at once. I swear they have departments that have no clue what another department is doing...


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## mke (Dec 19, 2016)

That sucks...

Only thing it's done to me is take away work. Last year I was doing $25 an hour blocks 9-12, 8-11 etc the week before xmas, now they don' exist...i've seen a couple that go to 10pm, but ours always have a half hour left over for a warehouse return...and they often finish much earlier.


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## Brandon Wilson (Aug 13, 2017)

Yup. Mine counted against me as well. Not cool.


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## outface (Oct 15, 2017)

Amazon is more like another Uber now. All the packages returned to warehouse will count against driver's performance even you have the following legitimate reasons:

Business is closed
No safe place to leave package
Order was cancelled after driver's pickup
Customer does not want it anymote
Incorrect or wrong delivery address
Incomplete address missing apt# or suite#
Customer does not answer the call to give the gate access code
No deliveries after 9:00 p.m.

Why all these gig business put all burdens and condemnations on drivers?!


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

DeathByFlex said:


> Got my weekly summary today and the packages I returned due to the curfew were definitely counted against me. So, yeah...


I did 2 nights back to back right after the email came out, but before I had seen it. Both nights were scheduled to end after 9:30pm by Amazon. I delivered all packages both nights, within my block times. Amazon counted all post 930pm deliveries against me as non-deliveries. So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. The only thing to do is not take any blocks that end after 9pm.

ADDED:
I should ad that prior to the email I had done late blocks earlier in the year, some scheduled to end as late as 11pm. Back then there was never this BS being dinged. Don't know why Amazon decided to get stupid.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

Side Hustle said:


> I did 2 nights back to back right after the email came out, but before I had seen it. Both nights were scheduled to end after 9:30pm by Amazon. I delivered all packages both nights, within my block times. Amazon counted all post 930pm deliveries against me as non-deliveries. So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. The only thing to do is not take any blocks that end after 9pm.


I feel ya... Did a 3hr block that ended at 9pm thinking I had plenty of buffer but the WH recently increased the package counts for the holiday which meant I was absolutely going to exceed my time. Around 9:20pm I still had a small group of 4 stops that were 10+ minutes from where I was so I called support to see what they wanted me to do. The first person who answered sounded clueless so I faked a call drop and called again. The second guy seemed less [email protected] and told me that if I could finish before 10pm then I should keep going. I pointed out that his advice was in conflict with the policy Amazon recently emailed and his response was that if you're going to get dinged either way then you might as well make the customer happy and deliver the packages. (let that sink in)

Not much of an answer but I decided to deliver them since it's xmas. I wouldn't want my packages sent back to the WH with only one day left for another delivery attempt, plus they were on my way back home. Since I had a few NSLs to drop off I brought it up with the WH guy (the one bossing the others around) and he said that the email was ridiculous and they "appreciated drivers attempting delivery after 9:30pm." It's important to note that appreciation does not equal policy. It's also the exact opposite of what another 'senior WH guy' told me last week (twice).

I asked what I should do about my rating being affected and he told me to come see him if I get deactivated and he'll "do something." He went on for a bit about how they help out the good drivers and have some say in the matter. Nothing about this is very reassuring.

I think you're right, screw evening blocks (at least the late ones).


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

So much for my tough talk... I'm all like "screw evening blocks" and not even a day later I can't resist taking another one. Granted, it was Xmas eve and good pay for a 3hr block -- which really should have been easy to knock out -- but it started snowing just as I arrived at the warehouse. We rarely get snow here, let alone snow that sticks to the streets, so this caught me by surprise. I was delivering in a very hilly area and all-wheel-drive is great for climbing up the hills but can't do much to prevent you from breaking free and sliding down on the return trip. For many stops I ended up parking and carrying packages the final stretch. There were lots of blocking accidents and road closures however this was Xmas eve dammit! and I really didn't want to give up without a fight. In the end, I delivered every package on my route; making the last one at 10:30pm to a house that I had to walk nearly a half-mile to get to.

Throughout the evening people were shocked and happy to see me. One of the more memorable moments was carrying a box down a street which was blocked by three cars that had slid together on a hill just prior to my arrival. There were people standing around swapping insurance info and a line of cars backed up behind them. One guy jokingly shouted something like "Amazon made it through!" which quickly turned into lots of people shouting holiday greetings and "thank you's" to me! That was amazing! Another awesome moment was when I delivered to a cul-de-sac where a woman was playing with her little daughter and some neighborhood kids. You could tell she was a good mom and it was such a beautiful moment. I had several deliveries there and the kids were excited and asking if I had any for their house. I had been visiting family earlier and had picked up a box of mini candy canes to share with my nieces/nephews and I still had a bunch with me so I handed some out to the kids and talked with some of the parents who had come outside for a bit. One of them told me the delivery was gifts for their kids which they had assumed wouldn't arrive due to the weather. They were trying to figure out a backup plan when I showed up.

You know, Amazon sees us as independent contractors but customers see us as Amazon; and I represented them very well. I did my job and got home without accident or injury and I made a lot of people happy while doing so. However I expect Amazon will only see the late deliveries and deactivate me for dropping below 97%. Prior to the 9:30 policy I had always been 100%... Amazon need to make this right and restore every driver's rating prior to the new policy.

Bah humbug on you Amazon... and Merry Christmas to all the flexers who bust their asses trying to make a broken system better! You are my people...


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> So much for my tough talk... I'm all like "screw evening blocks" and not even a day later I can't resist taking another one. Granted, it was Xmas eve and good pay for a 3hr block -- which really should have been easy to knock out -- but it started snowing just as I arrived at the warehouse. We rarely get snow here, let alone snow that sticks to the streets, so this caught me by surprise. I was delivering in a very hilly area and all-wheel-drive is great for climbing up the hills but can't do much to prevent you from breaking free and sliding down on the return trip. For many stops I ended up parking and carrying packages the final stretch. There were lots of blocking accidents and road closures however this was Xmas eve dammit! and I really didn't want to give up without a fight. In the end, I delivered every package on my route; making the last one at 10:30pm to a house that I had to walk nearly a half-mile to get to.
> 
> Throughout the evening people were shocked and happy to see me. One of the more memorable moments was carrying a box down a street which was blocked by three cars that had slid together on a hill just prior to my arrival. There were people standing around swapping insurance info and a line of cars backed up behind them. One guy jokingly shouted something like "Amazon made it through!" which quickly turned into lots of people shouting holiday greetings and "thank you's" to me! That was amazing! Another awesome moment was when I delivered to a cul-de-sac where a woman was playing with her little daughter and some neighborhood kids. You could tell she was a good mom and it was such a beautiful moment. I had several deliveries there and the kids were excited and asking if I had any for their house. I had been visiting family earlier and had picked up a box of mini candy canes to share with my nieces/nephews and I still had a bunch with me so I handed some out to the kids and talked with some of the parents who had come outside for a bit. One of them told me the delivery was gifts for their kids which they had assumed wouldn't arrive due to the weather. They were trying to figure out a backup plan when I showed up.
> 
> ...


Amazon will punish you.


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## Movaldriver (Feb 20, 2017)

Merry Christmas!!


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

DeathByFlex said:


> So much for my tough talk... I'm all like "screw evening blocks" and not even a day later I can't resist taking another one. Granted, it was Xmas eve and good pay for a 3hr block -- which really should have been easy to knock out -- but it started snowing just as I arrived at the warehouse. We rarely get snow here, let alone snow that sticks to the streets, so this caught me by surprise. I was delivering in a very hilly area and all-wheel-drive is great for climbing up the hills but can't do much to prevent you from breaking free and sliding down on the return trip. For many stops I ended up parking and carrying packages the final stretch. There were lots of blocking accidents and road closures however this was Xmas eve dammit! and I really didn't want to give up without a fight. In the end, I delivered every package on my route; making the last one at 10:30pm to a house that I had to walk nearly a half-mile to get to.
> 
> Throughout the evening people were shocked and happy to see me. One of the more memorable moments was carrying a box down a street which was blocked by three cars that had slid together on a hill just prior to my arrival. There were people standing around swapping insurance info and a line of cars backed up behind them. One guy jokingly shouted something like "Amazon made it through!" which quickly turned into lots of people shouting holiday greetings and "thank you's" to me! That was amazing! Another awesome moment was when I delivered to a cul-de-sac where a woman was playing with her little daughter and some neighborhood kids. You could tell she was a good mom and it was such a beautiful moment. I had several deliveries there and the kids were excited and asking if I had any for their house. I had been visiting family earlier and had picked up a box of mini candy canes to share with my nieces/nephews and I still had a bunch with me so I handed some out to the kids and talked with some of the parents who had come outside for a bit. One of them told me the delivery was gifts for their kids which they had assumed wouldn't arrive due to the weather. They were trying to figure out a backup plan when I showed up.
> 
> ...


Awesome report dude! I delivered yesterday also and had a similar experience of customers being very happy and grateful! I hoofed it allot due to being in the country, but it wasn't in the snow and not after dark. I hereby nominate you as the personal hero of Flex drivers.

Hopefully Amazon will not deactivate you but they will count the deliveries after 930 as non deliveries in one column for your 97% or whatever rating -but they will count them as 100% delivered in another column as having delivered all packages picked up. Amazon speak with forked tongue.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

It's your own fault for delivering past 9:30pm. In the email if anyone read carefully, that you are suppose to bring everything back if the deliveries are to be made past 9:30. Deliver up to 9:30 but not after.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> It's your own fault for delivering past 9:30pm. In the email if anyone read carefully, that you are suppose to bring everything back if the deliveries are to be made past 9:30. Deliver up to 9:30 but not after.


I thought the same thing until I got my weekly summary. Read posts #1 and #6 for some insights as to why you're wrong. I detail a support call in post #7 in which they advise me to deliver after 9:30pm and acknowledge the catch-22 nature of the policy. You're defending policy that damns you either way; perhaps you should apply for a support job...


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## Brandon Wilson (Aug 13, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> It's your own fault for delivering past 9:30pm. In the email if anyone read carefully, that you are suppose to bring everything back if the deliveries are to be made past 9:30. Deliver up to 9:30 but not after.


Did that and it still counted against me. Amazon created a paradox where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Its your fault if Amazon lets you in the station to deliver 40 minutes late, it's your fault Amazon had a late truck, its your fault they ran out of carts to load packages on, it's your fault they are in such a rush to get the packages out that they even aren't scanning anything that goes on your cart (that's right they had no idea where anything was or going until a driver scanned the packages into their interary), its your fault the resulting route has the first two stops half hour apart from each other leaving you with an hour to deliver 38 more packages that are an average 7 minutes apart with a couple more 25 minute jumps in there too and it's your fault when you stop delivering at 9:30 even though you have the instructions in writing and confirmed from support.

I lost a ton of respect for Amazon with this fiasco.


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## outface (Oct 15, 2017)

Amazon acts more like Uber recently but these two are different in nature.
Amazon will learn and adapt to the market changes but Uber will not. Uber thinks everything shall be the Uber way. Uber thinks they are GOD, they dominate the whole world and they are too big to fail.
If drivers refuse to pick up evening deliveries, Amazon will release more blocks in daytime or increase rates for evening deliveries.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> I thought the same thing until I got my weekly summary. Read posts #1 and #6 for some insights as to why you're wrong. I detail a support call in post #7 in which they advise me to deliver after 9:30pm and acknowledge the catch-22 nature of the policy. You're defending policy that damns you either way; perhaps you should apply for a support job...


You trust support more than what was stated in the email? People have complained about the lack of knowledge of support and you used what support told you to defend your position of Amazon's policy? Again, your own fault for trusting what support told you instead of what was stated in writing in the email. What support tells you is different from one agent to the next. Who's correct? Written policy is that you have to go by. What support tells you is just their personal interpretation of Amazon policy. You never know whether you're getting a good or bad support agent when you call.



Brandon Wilson said:


> its your fault the resulting route has the first two stops half hour apart from each other leaving you with an hour to deliver 38 more packages that are an average 7 minutes apart with a couple more 25 minute jumps in there too and it's your fault when you stop delivering at 9:30 even though you have the instructions in writing and confirmed from support.


By now if you've done enough blocks, you should know the itinerary isn't always well optimized. It's your fault for not catching their mistakes before leaving the station. It's your fault for not checking the order of the list versus the stops on the map. If you choose to follow blindly of the itinerary in the app, you need to find something that better suited for you. If you ran out of time for deliveries, return all packages back to station. It's your choice if you continue pass the block time. You are an independent contractor. You choose to work for free beyond your block time. There's no written instructions from support telling you MUST deliver pass 9:30pm. If you did get an email from support telling you just that, they are violating Amazon's written directive to the drivers. Whatever you do outside the written mass email directive to all drivers is all on you. Trusting support implicitly is plain naive. It's easy to blame someone else other than yourself.


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## Brandon Wilson (Aug 13, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> You trust support more than what was stated in the email? People have complained about the lack of knowledge of support and you used what support told you to defend your position of Amazon's policy? Again, your own fault for trusting what support told you instead of what was stated in writing in the email.
> 
> By now if you've done enough blocks, you should know the itinerary isn't always well optimized. It's your fault for not checking the order of the list versus the stops on the map. If you choose to follow blindly of the itinerary in the app, you need to find something that better suited for you. If you ran out of time for deliveries, return all packages back to station. It's your choice if you continue pass the block time. You are an independent contractor. You choose to work for free beyond your block time. There's no written instructions from support telling you MUST deliver pass 9:30pm. Whatever you do outside the written mass email directive to all drivers is all on you. Trusting support implicitly is plain naive.


I think you can't read. Support re-iterated not to deliver and I did not. As for the map the itinerary wasn't the issue. The issue was the fact that I was delivering 40 packages to 5 different cities 25+ minutes apart from each other since the station was in rush mode due to a late truck. There was no optimizing that route since it was practically a rim, believe me that's the first thing I look at before leaving. I called it quits when it was time to make another 25 minute jump to city #5. Amazon doesn't have the logistics of being a delivery service down yet especially when it comes to delays it seems, that by itself is fine, but passing blame down to the drivers is ridiculous.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> You trust support more than what was stated in the email? People have complained about the lack of knowledge of support and you used what support told you to defend your position of Amazon's policy? Again, your own fault for trusting what support told you instead of what was stated in writing in the email. What support tells you is different from one agent to the next. Who's correct? Written policy is that you have to go by. What support tells you is just their personal interpretation of Amazon policy. You never know whether you're getting a good or bad support agent when you call.


While I agree with your overall assessment of the quality of support, you continue to disregard the simple fact that the weekly summary -- which, like the policy email, is an official communication from Amazon -- clearly reflects that returning packages after 9:30pm negatively affects the driver's rating. Did you not read the very first post in the thread? It's one sentence long and clearly states the complaint...


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Brandon Wilson said:


> I think you can't read. Support re-iterated not to deliver and I did not. As for the map the itinerary wasn't the issue. The issue was the fact that I was delivering 40 packages to 5 different cities 25+ minutes apart from each other since the station was in rush mode due to a late truck. There was no optimizing that route since it was practically a rim, believe me that's the first thing I look at before leaving. I called it quits when it was time to make another 25 minute jump to city #5. Amazon doesn't have the logistics of being a delivery service down yet especially when it comes to delays it seems, that by itself is fine, but passing blame down to the drivers is ridiculous.


Then what the heck is your punishment for not delivering? A little ding on the weekly summary? Did you get deactivated?



DeathByFlex said:


> While I agree with your overall assessment of the quality of support, you continue to disregard the simple fact that the weekly summary -- which, like the policy email, is an official communication from Amazon -- clearly reflects that returning packages after 9:30pm negatively affects the driver's rating. Did you not read the very first post in the thread? It's one sentence long and clearly states the complaint...


Returning packages after 9:30pm negatively affects ratings? Lol

You should've listen to what the email stated instead to any workers at the station. Those workers at the station have no control over the automated emails. Blame yourself for trusting what the workers tells you.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> Returning packages after 9:30pm negatively affects ratings? Lol
> 
> You should've listen to what the email stated instead to any workers at the station. Those workers at the station have no control over the automated emails. Blame yourself for trusting what the workers tells you.


Are you just troll'n? My weekly summary from Amazon listed the package count for the ones I returned due to the 9:30pm rule and *they directly impacted my rating*. This wasn't hearsay from a WH worker or support drone, it was the official weekly email we all get. Further, other drivers have reported the same, some of them in this very thread. Did you not know this or are you having a laugh?


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

What he's saying is that automated email that gets sent out weekly (sometimes, maybe, except when it doesn't) may very well mean absolutely nothing. Like most Flex stuff, from the app to supposed to warehouse operations, it's buggy and slapped together and seldom works correctly.

In the past 16-18 months we've had reports of people getting shit-canned despite 100% emails, or having horrible numbers on their emails but suffering no ill effects. For a month or so last summer, no one got any weekly emails at all. I've had "customer expectations" emails for missing packages, while my weeklies kept showing 100% (and I'm a very part-time driver, so it's not like the missing packages were aging off my record).

The point is,
a) There's absolutely no way to know whether it affects your stats or not, at least for whatever "real" stats Amazon may use to decide if/when to fire someone.

b) Anyone who says they have it all figured out is full of crap, because the only rule is there are no rules. If there were any rules, they would change on a weekly basis and no one would be told anything.

c) Follow whatever rules you want, because whether you do or don't, you may or may not be fired at any moment, with or without cause.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> Are you just troll'n? My weekly summary from Amazon listed the package count for the ones I returned due to the 9:30pm rule and *they directly impacted my rating*. This wasn't hearsay from a WH worker or support drone, it was the official weekly email we all get. Further, other drivers have reported the same, some of them in this very thread. Did you not know this or are you having a laugh?


The 9:30 rule went into effect for less than a week and you claimed that it already impacted your rating in your weekly summary. You're just making up stuff at this point. All hearsay with no evidence to back up anything.

Weekly summary is just that. It's not a deactivation email or anything. You're more likely to get deactivated for missing blocks than for these so-called "returning packages after 9:30" crap. You worry way too much about the numbers that's included in your summary. If you work enough blocks, the numbers are reset often. Move on.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> The 9:30 rule went into effect for less than a week and you claimed that it already impacted your rating in your weekly summary. You're just making up stuff at this point. All hearsay with no evidence to back up anything.


Don't be absurd, I'm not making up anything and neither are the multiple other drivers who have reported the same observation in this very thread. The policy may be new but it has been in effect just long enough to be reflected in the last summary email.



oicu812 said:


> Weekly summary is just that. It's not a deactivation email or anything. You're more likely to get deactivated for missing blocks than for these so-called "returning packages after 9:30" crap. You worry way too much about the numbers that's included in your summary.


Yup...I probably do worry a bit too much about this but only because the only thing I have to go on is speculation, rumors, and forum posts. Based on that, it seems that once you drop below 97% in your weekly report you are on thin ice. If my rating drops because I'm a screw-up then that's on me. If, however, my rating drops because Amazon created a no-win policy then that's entirely beyond my control. This is the core issue being discussed. It would be nice if Amazon would provide clarification and walk in lock step with their support staff but until that happens the best we have is public discussion.



oicu812 said:


> If you work enough blocks, the numbers are reset often.


I've been doing Flex for just over a year and I've never seen the numbers reset. Perhaps logistics is treated different than Prime? I'm logistics, which are you?



oicu812 said:


> Move on.


So that's it, we all should stop talking about this because you say so? I apologize if I've offended you. Please feel free to ignore this thread...



jester121 said:


> What he's saying is that automated email that gets sent out weekly (sometimes, maybe, except when it doesn't) may very well mean absolutely nothing. Like most Flex stuff, from the app to supposed to warehouse operations, it's buggy and slapped together and seldom works correctly.
> 
> In the past 16-18 months we've had reports of people getting shit-canned despite 100% emails, or having horrible numbers on their emails but suffering no ill effects. For a month or so last summer, no one got any weekly emails at all. I've had "customer expectations" emails for missing packages, while my weeklies kept showing 100% (and I'm a very part-time driver, so it's not like the missing packages were aging off my record).
> 
> ...


I think this is spot on... Unfortunate, but true...


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> I've been doing Flex for just over a year and I've never seen the numbers reset. Perhaps logistics is treated different than Prime? I'm logistics, which are you?


I'm logistics. If you've never see the numbers reset, then you haven't worked enough. It resets every 20 blocks and 500 packages. Others will tell you the same.

Definitions:
• On Time Delivery Rating: A delivery is considered successful when it is delivered by 9pm. This rating is the percentage of deliveries made by 9pm out of your last 500 deliveries.
• Reliability Rating: This rating is the percentage of delivery blocks you completed out of the last 20 you scheduled.
• Recent delivered not received count: This count is the number of packages marked delivered but not received by customers out of your last 500 deliveries.

The definition of On Time Delivery Rating changed due to the 9:30pm deadline for the holidays. The rest is still correct.

When I said move on, I meant you should quit dwelling on your weekly summary and ratings and focus on what's at hand. Ignore the noise from wh personnel as they don't give a damn about you or I. They have their own jobs to worry about.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> I'm logistics. If you've never see the numbers reset, then you haven't worked enough. It resets every 20 blocks and 500 packages. Others will tell you the same.
> 
> Definitions:
> • On Time Delivery Rating: A delivery is considered successful when it is delivered by 9pm. This rating is the percentage of deliveries made by 9pm out of your last 500 deliveries.
> ...


Thanks for the info, I was just looking back through my email history and it looks like there were resets that I never noticed...

So often these posts fail to convey the intended tone. I didn't feel good about how I interpreted that "move on" bit and I can see now how you meant it. I regret that part of my response. I really wish I was working today...


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> I really wish I was working today...


You probably can. Only same day evening blocks today in my area. Vans are not working until tomorrow.


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