# White Van drivers are getting most of the packages and we are getting the returns



## detsoob (Jun 16, 2016)

I believe the white van drivers that drive for Amazon at $15 an hour and do 8 hour shifts dropping 250-300 packages a day are getting the bulk of the work.

When they come back with undeliverable packages then Amazon sends out blocks.

I have been checking all day at Miami Doral and no blocks have come up yet.

You have to be on your phone refreshing all day. (not for me)

Last night at 10pm they had a couple of blocks but they went even faster than usual since they weren't that many.


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## jaywaynedubya (Feb 17, 2015)

Yep, that's how it works, it seems especially in the evening. I think flex driver's get returns and overflow packages/late (not enough van space in the morning to fit packages).


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## Flexxx (Sep 28, 2016)

This is probably only true for the late blocks.


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## CarmenFlexDriver (Jun 21, 2016)

It's happened before where they seem to rotate out who get's the bulk of package deliveries. They will give us flex drivers lot's of routes and packages for a month or so and then shift over to more contract drivers handling the bulk. Then back again.
So, might again explain some of the slowdown or lack of blocks at both Miami locations as well as others. They onboard new drivers and take up the bulk with white van drivers for a few weeks.
If i'm right, in about 1-2 weeks, things will be back to normal.

As for afternoon blocks.....almost always "throwbacks" from the day at our location. Not always but mostly any block after 4pm.


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## detsoob (Jun 16, 2016)

Either way this sucks for us.


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## CarmenFlexDriver (Jun 21, 2016)

jaywaynedubya said:


> Yep, that's how it works, it seems especially in the evening. I think flex driver's get returns and overflow packages/late (not enough van space in the morning to fit packages).


 Not all locations do things the same but at our location everyday the white van drivers, they can be contract drivers or actually work directly for amazon get loaded from around 8am to 10am. 
After that our flex driver blocks start at 10am every half hour until 12:30pm. It's not the same every day but those are the basic block releases. So, early blocks are just regular deliveries. 
Later in the day as packages start coming back they decide if they need flex drivers to redeliver or they go out on next days routes.

So, we are not just doing returns and undeliverables. At least not at Miami gardens location.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

CarmenFlexDriver said:


> Not all locations do things the same but at our location everyday the white van drivers, they can be contract drivers or actually work directly for amazon get loaded from around 8am to 10am.
> After that our flex driver blocks start at 10am every half hour until 12:30pm. It's not the same every day but those are the basic block releases. So, early blocks are just regular deliveries.
> Later in the day as packages start coming back they decide if they need flex drivers to redeliver or they go out on next days routes.
> 
> So, we are not just doing returns and undeliverables. At least not at Miami gardens location.


Same, vans do the early deliveries at my warehouse but anything before 12 pm are regular 40 package deliveries to a nearby city. Go backs start around 3.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

detsoob said:


> Either way this sucks for us.


So apply for a driving job with the white van peeps. Seldom does the best of both worlds last forever...


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## paper_doll (Dec 4, 2017)

detsoob said:


> I believe the white van drivers that drive for Amazon at $15 an hour and do 8 hour shifts dropping 250-300 packages a day are getting the bulk of the work.


How do you search for these companies on job vacancy websites? I've tried "amazon fleet" and nothing ever comes up. I guess I could just hang out at the warehouse and ask...


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

paper_doll said:


> How do you search for these companies on job vacancy websites? I've tried "amazon fleet" and nothing ever comes up. I guess I could just hang out at the warehouse and ask...


Check indeed.com


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

detsoob said:


> I believe the white van drivers that drive for Amazon at $15 an hour and do 8 hour shifts dropping 250-300 packages a day are getting the bulk of the work.
> 
> When they come back with undeliverable packages then Amazon sends out blocks.
> 
> ...


If you ran Amazon wouldn't you use the lowest cost delivery option as well?

I mean, even as a Flex driver I can understand Amazon's motive for using the lowest cost carrier. If they can get a package delivered for even a nickle cheaper than using a Flex driver they are going to do it. The economies of scale are just not in the Flex drivers favor...

If you want to get rid of the white vans start giving out free hot chocolate to their drivers spiked with a horse laxative and once enough of them shit themselves in a customers driveway like that one lady white van driver did the other day Amazon might reconsider.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

paper_doll said:


> How do you search for these companies on job vacancy websites? I've tried "amazon fleet" and nothing ever comes up. I guess I could just hang out at the warehouse and ask...


At my WH there are 3 different 'white van' companies that each have a desk set up at the front of the building (near the Flex desk). All you have to do is walk up to them and ask if they're hiring.

Also, the WH employees get benefits too. Maybe you'd like working in there?


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

dkcs said:


> If you ran Amazon wouldn't you use the lowest cost delivery option as well?
> 
> I mean, even as a Flex driver I can understand Amazon's motive for using the lowest cost carrier. If they can get a package delivered for even a nickle cheaper than using a Flex driver they are going to do it. The economies of scale are just not in the Flex drivers favor...
> 
> If you want to get rid of the white vans start giving out free hot chocolate to their drivers spiked with a horse laxative and once enough of them shit themselves in a customers driveway like that one lady white van driver did the other day Amazon might reconsider.


Flex driver is the lowest cost carrier, USPS is 2nd. Stop acting like you know what you are talking about.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Bygosh said:


> Flex driver is the lowest cost carrier, USPS is 2nd. Stop acting like you know what you are talking about.


The reason region carriers exist is because they can out price any other delivery service.

A non-union driver in a rented van loaded up with 250-300 packages is going to undercut a Flex driver any day for delivery cost per piece.


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

dkcs said:


> The reason region carriers exist is because they can out price any other delivery service.
> 
> A non-union driver in a rented van loaded up with 250-300 packages is going to undercut a Flex driver any day for delivery cost per piece.


No, just plain wrong again. The reason they exist is because Amazon doesn't think it can rely on Flex drivers for all of their volume. Flex Drivers are delivering for $1-1.50/box. Rumored USPS contract is $2/box. The lowest I've heard a van going out for was $450 and up to as high as $800. Even at the low end that is $2.50/box assuming 200 packages. You are forgetting that vans have insurance to pay, leases, gas, maintenance, FICA taxes, vacation/sick pay, dispatchers, the drivers and the owner of the contracting company is going to want to make a good chunk for all the risk he/she is taking.


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## Movaldriver (Feb 20, 2017)

The vans are what screwed up flex in Riverside back around September. They now have 4 or 5 companies and we only get anything over what they take. Plus all their redelivery attempts.


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

At DLA4, we no longer get the routes around the warehouse even for morning routes. The first stops are always at least 20 miles away. Hope this is temporary or else this gig is really not worth it anymore.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

This is by design. Flex is a stop gap / last resort for Amazon until enough delivery companies bid on contracts. You can see the process and even bid (if qualified) at their logistics site.

There are also various interviews on the web with warehouse workers who discusss how the vans are generally given priority in routes and areas. Flex fills in the leftovers and far routes, if any.


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## ScubaMark (Oct 5, 2017)

Gig jobs are equivalent to Day Labor jobs. No guarantee of work tomorrow.


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## OnlyInTheA (Oct 19, 2016)

And what of prime now and the never fresh from Sprouts deliveries?


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## ScubaMark (Oct 5, 2017)

What about them. Are they 1099 jobs where you can be deactivated/denied work based on their opinion (regardless of facts) with little to no recourse? If so, then yes, in my opinion they are the same as day labor jobs, and by default no guarantee of future work.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

"THE RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL SHIPS, but the galley slaves aren't feeling it. They're rowing harder than ever to make up for their colleagues who have been thrown overboard (getting rid of that extra weight improves the vessel's efficiency).

http://ritholtz.com/2009/11/the-galley-slaves-arent-feeling-it/


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Flex is still by far the cheapest option for Amazon to deliver a package. The bulk of the delivery is still handled by white van companies.


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

When they keep on [email protected]!//&!! over good drivers, they'll only have desperate idiots left.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Maybe this is just proof that the rideshare-deliverers are just getting overflow and that's all it's ever been?


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## SoggyF (Jun 24, 2017)

One mourning on the road and near our warehouse, here in Portland and I decided to take the road that would go past the WH. This was around 9:30ish. As I was nearing the bend I could white vans pouring out to the street causing street traffic to slow down. They were all in line at the WH. So then I assume this is why I never get any offers for anything prior to noon.


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

I don't see how there could be leftovers for morning routes and maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure every warehouse has AM routes.


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## paper_doll (Dec 4, 2017)

DeathByFlex said:


> At my WH there are 3 different 'white van' companies that each have a desk set up at the front of the building (near the Flex desk). All you have to do is walk up to them and ask if they're hiring.
> 
> Also, the WH employees get benefits too. Maybe you'd like working in there?


I've tried applying for the warehouses...got denied for two and no response from a third.


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## dantiv (Mar 1, 2017)

SoggyF said:


> One mourning on the road and near our warehouse, here in Portland and I decided to take the road that would go past the WH. This was around 9:30ish. As I was nearing the bend I could white vans pouring out to the street causing street traffic to slow down. They were all in line at the WH. So then I assume this is why I never get any offers for anything prior to noon.


Yup, same here in San Diego. I drove by the warehouse and I saw at least 100 white vans loading. Explains why I'm not getting blocks. This gig is over for me.


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## overlyoptimistic (Apr 7, 2017)

Bygosh said:


> I don't see how there could be leftovers for morning routes and maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure every warehouse has AM routes.


I think the point the OP has is that we're getting leftover "routes" in general ..while white van driver folk get first dibs at everything. A certain amount held aside for "us" but nothing beyond that unless your warehouse is backed up that day. We don't get any flex shifts here until 10am earliest and for the last week those shifts have been next to impossible to get. I'm flipping out if I can land an 11am block lately.

I'm just reading and realizing what could be the reality of these white van contractor companies tonight and it's very disheartening to be honest. No wonder I'm having such a hard time getting blocks. I mean I'm happy to see that Amazon stopped hiring Flex here as of a few weeks back ..but we're all just this "sloppy seconds independent contractor club" as Flex associates. Pffff


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## Nekoosa (Nov 28, 2017)

Here’s how I see it. At least in Chicagoland( specifically dch4) We are not really competing with the white van drivers for gigs. Those will always be there. Wether the drivers will be is a different story. 
We are competing with all the new independent contractors amazon onboarded before thanksgiving. For the first couple of weeks there wasn’t much to grab on the flex side. But now the one and dones, or the stay at home moms are giving up the amount of gigs are coming back to normal. I would love to see amazons internal records about attrition rates.


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## paper_doll (Dec 4, 2017)

grams777 said:


> This is by design. Flex is a stop gap / last resort for Amazon until enough delivery companies bid on contracts. You can see the process and even bid (if qualified) at their logistics site.
> 
> There are also various interviews on the web with warehouse workers who discusss how the vans are generally given priority in routes and areas. Flex fills in the leftovers and far routes, if any.


Do you have the website for contract courier bids?


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## enigmaquip (Sep 2, 2016)

logistics.amazon.com


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## paper_doll (Dec 4, 2017)

enigmaquip said:


> logistics.amazon.


Thanks, I read it and I guess if you have a 300 cubic ft. cargo van and the proper insurances you could do this for yourself if you have an LLC or corporation. 1 vehicle is sufficient.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

paper_doll said:


> I guess if you have a 300 cubic ft. cargo van and the proper insurances you could do this for yourself if you have an LLC or corporation


That seems ridiculous... You might be slightly higher priority than regular Flex but you certainly won't get the priority the vans get. Just more overhead, greater financial risk, and not much benefit. If you're considering a van then things must have improved significantly since your first post... Update?


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

paper_doll said:


> Thanks, I read it and I guess if you have a 300 cubic ft. cargo van and the proper insurances you could do this for yourself if you have an LLC or corporation. 1 vehicle is sufficient.


Nope. If you go further into the sign up process you need a minimum of 5. If you ask around at your warehouse they will tell you you need 20+ to compete on the bids.

I have been waiting a long time for them to open up Flex to single van contractors.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

Bygosh said:


> Nope. If you go further into the sign up process you need a minimum of 5. If you ask around at your warehouse they will tell you you need 20+ to compete on the bids.
> 
> I have been waiting a long time for them to open up Flex to single van contractors.


Why not do a little networking and find four other good (like top-tier) Flexers who are also interested? Form an LLC or S-corp and each of you buy a van. If the money starts rolling in then you each go in 1/5th on another van and hire another Flexer to drive for you. Rinse, repeat...


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Yeah, and repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat (the hiring part). Haven't you heard about the incredible burnout rate of these white van drivers?


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> Why not do a little networking and find four other good (like top-tier) Flexers who are also interested? Form an LLC or S-corp and each of you buy a van. If the money starts rolling in then you each go in 1/5th on another van and hire another Flexer to drive for you. Rinse, repeat...


20 Vans and the 30 or so RELIABLE drivers to do the routes is hard to put together. I could get the drivers, problem is outside of myself and maybe a few others no one has money/credit worthiness to get a van. 20 Vans, dispatcher and insurance is a pretty hefty start up cost. If anyone out there is reading this and has a million or so dollars laying around pm me. I'm sure I could crush the current vans in my city on every metric.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Bygosh said:


> 20 Vans and the 30 or so RELIABLE drivers to do the routes is hard to put together. I could get the drivers, problem is outside of myself and maybe a few others no one has money/credit worthiness to get a van. 20 Vans, dispatcher and insurance is a pretty hefty start up cost. If anyone out there is reading this and has a million or so dollars laying around pm me. I'm sure I could crush the current vans in my city on every metric.


UHaul... Some of the white van companies are simply renting a UHaul for the day as witnessed in the recent video where the female delivery driver took a dump in front of the customers house. Rent a UHaul with damage waiver, no dispatcher needed since the dispatch is done through the Flex app (even for white van drivers). Insurance to meet Amazon's standards might be the only tricky part.


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

dkcs said:


> UHaul... Some of the white van companies are simply renting a UHaul for the day as witnessed in the recent video where the female delivery driver took a dump in front of the customers house. Rent a UHaul with damage waiver, no dispatcher needed since the dispatch is done through the Flex app (even for white van drivers). Insurance to meet Amazon's standards might be the only tricky part.


I was told you need a dispatcher at all times at the warehouse. I know this is true as well because I know who the dispatchers are for the vans and they stay in the warehouse from first stop to last stop.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

That sounds like it would be a cushy job for the owner to do until you could afford to hire someone... I was under the impression that the blocks were assigned to you through dispatch and then you assigned those to your drivers through the app.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

dkcs said:


> UHaul... Some of the white van companies are simply renting a UHaul for the day as witnessed in the recent video where the female delivery driver took a dump in front of the customers house. Rent a UHaul with damage waiver, no dispatcher needed since the dispatch is done through the Flex app (even for white van drivers). Insurance to meet Amazon's standards might be the only tricky part.


I gotta think those UHaul rentals are emergency stop-gap fill-ins for a van that's down for repairs or service -- with the hefty rates UHaul charges for mileage there can't be enough meat on the bone to even break even. I bet it's a fleet operator who's trying to avoid whatever penalties they get hit with for not having their quota of vans on the road on a given day.

The Enterprise ones, I guess those could be longer term rentals, while someone gets their fleet set up and running? Though they're still not cheap. Maybe there's a corporate negotiated rate that makes it more palatable.

I'm amazed by the Flex Enterprise vans that have had the shit absolutely beat out of them -- like 4 or 5 or more major dents/scrapes/smashes around them... and still on the road.


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## Kevrun (Dec 11, 2016)

jester121 said:


> I gotta think those UHaul rentals are emergency stop-gap fill-ins for a van that's down for repairs or service -- with the hefty rates UHaul charges for mileage there can't be enough meat on the bone to even break even. I bet it's a fleet operator who's trying to avoid whatever penalties they get hit with for not having their quota of vans on the road on a given day.
> 
> The Enterprise ones, I guess those could be longer term rentals, while someone gets their fleet set up and running? Though they're still not cheap. Maybe there's a corporate negotiated rate that makes it more palatable.
> 
> I'm amazed by the Flex Enterprise vans that have had the shit absolutely beat out of them -- like 4 or 5 or more major dents/scrapes/smashes around them... and still on the road.


Uhaul and Ryder offer excellent monthly rates to businesses You would be shocked at the prices.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

That must be the case. With the insurance and so forth I'm still amazed they can make it work....


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Bygosh said:


> I don't see how there could be leftovers for morning routes and maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure every warehouse has AM routes.


They do. There just doesn't appear to be any AM route leftovers from the WHs where you live


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Van drivers leave boxes and bags behind all the time when they are loading up in the morning.


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