# Car accident off duty



## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

I got slammed into my teenager in a big hurry and my car is out of commission to Halloween. It happened at the beginning of the month so I won't be back on the road till November. Do I have to tell Uber since it happened to me on my own time? Will they deactivate me? Thanks.


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

What do you mean you got slammed into your teenager?


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

That was really bad writing because I was tired from work. I meant to say I got slammed into by a teenager not slammed into my teenager. Now I have visions of splattering my own teenager all over Figueroa Street and all I care about is how quickly I can Uber again. How sensitive! Besides that, it is irrelevant that he was a teenager in the first place like I'm trying to make him wrong because he just got his license. My fault pure and simple as I learned is the case whenever you make a left turn, even if the SUV in the number one lane waved me through. It's not their fault either. Thank goodness no one was hurt, although I'm sure my insurance rates will skyrocket for making the claim. $12K worth of damage and I never even got my double quarter pounder. I've sworn off drive thru cuisine as preliminary penance.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't think you will get any sympathy or financial support from Uber...
What are you hoping to accomplish by notifying Uber?


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

Not like they're watching my driving frequency like a hawk I was just a little concerned they might deactivate me for taking a month off. I know the beauty of Uber is work when you feel like it but this might feel like a long unexcused absence. I certainly can't Uber in my rental car. I had just purchased a Goasis and was really excited about installing it before my next run. On the plus side, my Honda is going to come out looking very professional as $2000 of the total charge is body work on other little issues unrelated to my appointment with destiny at Mickey D's.


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

Sorry to hear that. 

If it helps put you at ease, you can let Uber know you'll be unable to drive until first week of November due to an accident. Though IMO it will serve no purpose. This has nothing to do with Uber so no need to involve them or share any information with them.


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

I think it will probably just make me look like a mediocre driver. I may have been raised Catholic but Uber is not Confession and they will not give me three Hail Mary's and tell me I'm absolved. On my self imposed fast food hunger strike, I think I'll miss milkshakes the most, especially since they started adding whipped cream and a cherry.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

You probably know this already...
But NEVER inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
Catholic or otherwise...


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

They will let you know about your driving frequency before any action is taken on there part. If they contact you that would be the time to explain your situation. By that time your car maybe repaired? Nicely try to nudge the body shop.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> You probably know this already...
> But NEVER inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
> Catholic or otherwise...


Worst advice I have heard on this forum. Committing insurance fraud and ending up in jail is not worth lying.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Worst advice I have heard on this forum. Committing insurance fraud and ending up in jail is not worth lying.


1) Not saying anything is not fraud.
2) Volunteering something that may not be in your interest is stupid.
3) This forum is about not so well-off Uber drivers trying to make a few bucks. Nothing more...
4) You have ulterior motives. I don't.

So if you want to preach about morality, go find a #@%&ing religious forum and give them all your wisdom...


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Oh, one more thing...
I haven't heard of any, not even one, Uber driver ending up in Jail for insurance fraud...
Have you?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Andy Fielder said:


> I got slammed into my teenager in a big hurry and my car is out of commission to Halloween. It happened at the beginning of the month so I won't be back on the road till November. Do I have to tell Uber since it happened to me on my own time? Will they deactivate me? Thanks.


The only question that would come into play is was Uber app on or not.

If not then likely irrelevant. Maybe. I'm not so sure any drivers personal insurance is even valid IF they knew we were Ubering.


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## Wolf359 (Oct 15, 2014)

Dont' forget you'll be charged $10/week for the Uber phone (assuming you have one and have not returned it) even if you're not driving. I didnt realize this but others have confirmed it.


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

I thought about that weekly $10 for the idle Uber phone and chalked it up to collateral damage for the whole adventure. Without any ability to calculate my insurance rate increase, my personal kick in to get rolling again has zoomed up to $2600 on top of Met Life's $8900. I haven't even thought about how much they're paying the teenager for the bent hood on his 1990 BMW or that in between taking pictures of the crime scene, his girlfriend predicted her shoulder might start hurting later. Soon after, his dad arrived and started creating elaborate drawings of the accident he didn't witness while insisting I made my left against four lanes of oncoming traffic. That would have been a neat trick on my part considering there were only two lanes on each side of the road. After all of this, couldn't I have been going somewhere besides McDonald's?


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Andy to answer your initial question Uber should require it's driver to report any accident to them, but I do not think they do. They should do it for 2 reasons:

1. So they can deactivate you and get new pictures of your vehicle to make sure it was repaired back to new condition. I mean some driver could cheap out and put a black junkyard hood on a red car. Stuff like that.

2. They should determine that the vehicle was not salvaged and bought back from the insurance company to be repaired on the cheap. 

Of course they do not do this because as we all know Uber is not a transportation company and quite frankly the less they know the better for them as they can deny knowledge when they car splits in half from a bad weld and kills the passenger and a pedestrian. They will be able to say: The driver never told us. And they would be right. 

And so for you I am not worried about you notifying them about a fender bender I am more worried about the guys welding two half's of a civic together for $1500 and putting it in service driving passengers around. For that is about the only way to make a good living with the rates they offer in most markets. 

And this points out a flaw in the safety of the uber system. If commercial insurance was required for drivers Uber could be listed as an additional insured. Then when a vehicle was totaled Uber would be notified of the VIN being removed from the policy or policy canceled. Personal insurance has no notification feature to third parties about policy lapses, salvages, or accidents. So Uber is kept in the dark, I am sure that's how they want it. Nice little side benefit to hide them from liability.


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

Very informative. With all the money headed towards Honda of Hollywood which I know to be a reputable shop, I'm trusting my only benefit out of all this is my car will come out better than before the accident. The whole insurance thing with Uber has been a little confusing to me, especially since their system makes talking to an actual human out of the question. I believe we are covered my an Uber commercial policy from the time we accept the ride till our pax exits the vehicle and the details of this policy can be found on my Uber phone. I would do better to be sure of this before I resume driving for them.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Sorry to hear of your trouble. How old is the other driver? Just FYI, if the teenager just got his license it may be provisional, meaning he shouldn't have been driving with his girlfriend in the car unless she was a lot older than he. Newly licensed drivers under age 18 in Ca aren't allowed passengers under age 20 without a licensed adult over 25 in the car for the first year. Nor can they drive between the hours of 11pm and 5am without the 25+ adult. Pointing that out to his dad might cool his jets a bit. OTOH, if he's over 18 and just a late-bloomer, he wouldn't have those restrictions.


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## Jay2dresq (Oct 1, 2014)

Andy Fielder said:


> I think it will probably just make me look like a mediocre driver. I may have been raised Catholic but Uber is not Confession and they will not give me three Hail Mary's and tell me I'm absolved. On my self imposed fast food hunger strike, I think I'll miss milkshakes the most, especially since they started adding whipped cream and a cherry.


Is McDonald's trying to compete with Chick-fil-a?


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## vtexposfan (May 27, 2014)

I feel your pain, guy. I got rear-ended 34 days ago and I've been told "should be ready by the end of the week" for three weeks running. I've probably lost a good $1,300 in net income at this point. Let's see how much of that I can get from the other guy's insurer.


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## winston (Jun 23, 2014)

Just tell them you won't be able to drive for a month or so and would it be possible to deactivate you and not charge you the $10/week. They may give some nonsense about having to send the phone back, but I was able to get out of a months worth of fees without having to send the phone back.


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## vtexposfan (May 27, 2014)

Eh, I thought the work would be done much quicker than this.


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

Thanks. At least you were rear ended which means it is the other driver's fault, open and shut. I haven't even considered whether their promise of Halloween might turn into Thanksgiving. In my case, the left hand turn makes it automatically my fault despite the friendly SUV waving me through to my smash up in the number two lane. Interesting points about the kid who hit me. He is 17, girlfriend the same, and it was 11:00 PM. I didn't know any of those teen driving restrictions but doubt they would have impacted the assigning of blame. I must admit he was very polite and helpful supplying all his info. He even warned about his dad who peeled into the parking lot to lead the investigation a half hour later. I just kept calmly telling dad that we both had insurance companies who would be the final arbiter and refused to plead guilty at the scene. Met Life promptly paid the Honda body shop in full as soon as they submitted the estimate. Talking to my adjustor is another thing entirely. I understand I'm probably not too popular over there but voicemails to them go directly into the round file.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Andy Fielder said:


> Thanks. At least you were rear ended which means it is the other driver's fault, open and shut. I haven't even considered whether their promise of Halloween might turn into Thanksgiving. In my case, the left hand turn makes it automatically my fault despite the friendly SUV waving me through to my smash up in the number two lane. Interesting points about the kid who hit me. He is 17, girlfriend the same, and it was 11:00 PM. I didn't know any of those teen driving restrictions but doubt they would have impacted the assigning of blame. I must admit he was very polite and helpful supplying all his info. He even warned about his dad who peeled into the parking lot to lead the investigation a half hour later. I just kept calmly telling dad that we both had insurance companies who would be the final arbiter and refused to plead guilty at the scene. Met Life promptly paid the Honda body shop in full as soon as they submitted the estimate. Talking to my adjustor is another thing entirely. I understand I'm probably not too popular over there but voicemails to them go directly into the round file.


If you haven't already, do let your Insurance Company know that their was a passenger in the vehicle that was 17 years old and that the driver was also 17 years old.  It is the job of your Insurance Company to work for you.


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## Andy Fielder (Sep 6, 2014)

I appreciate that tip. Met Life knows all about the other driver as they didn't miss a beat filing a claim against me. That's why the most stressful thing is waiting for the final ruling from my insurance. How much will my rates jump since this is the first accident in 20 years that I was responsible for? Did the girlfriend's shoulder conveniently start hurting? I loved how they predicted that night _her shoulder might hurt tomorrow._ Accidents are a money making racket and it's been hard putting this one out of my head and just being grateful no one really got hurt. Junior was zooming down Figueroa at a very high speed at the time of impact. Perhaps he was rushing to get his girlfriend home before her shoulder started acting up.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

vtexposfan said:


> I feel your pain, guy. I got rear-ended 34 days ago and I've been told "should be ready by the end of the week" for three weeks running. I've probably lost a good $1,300 in net income at this point. Let's see how much of that I can get from the other guy's insurer.


Not sure if its the same over there or if X Cars can claim. Here in Australia if you've been taken out in an accident that is not your fault you can claim "Demurage" .

Licensed public vehicle operators simply have to establish their daily earnings through Tax returns or an Accountant's letter and that amount is claimed against the other party's insurance if they are at fault.

Thats paid for some nice unplanned holidays in the past whilst waiting for repairs to be completed.


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## yoo (Jun 24, 2014)

Andy Fielder, I havent driven for 1.5 months and got email from Uber notifying me of deactivation. If your worried about getting deactivated, I don't think you should. Just sucks that you will be getting hit with $10 device fee if you don't have your own phone.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> You probably know this already...
> But NEVER inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
> Catholic or otherwise...


That is fraud, punishable by law, a charge Uber/Lyft will not defend


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> That is fraud, punishable by law, a charge Uber/Lyft will not defend


I don't recall receiving any insurance protocol information from Uber/Lyft regarding insurance procedures/requirements/what if's/instructions whatsoever. THEY are supposedly covering me as an independent contractor? Unlikely. It's also just as unlikely that my personal insurance will either.

This remains as 'bend over' territory for all 'independent contractor' drivers imho. And an area that every driver will 'experience' sooner or later.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

It seems they have intentionally misled drivers. That is so unfortunate. Most insurance companies will tell you that if your vehicle is being used for commercial purposes, it is not covered under your personal policy. There are exceptions, I have met a couple of people who have approval from their insurance company. But that approval has been in writing. If you have to lie to your insurance provider, it is flawed. And Uber will claim ignorance. Because all they do is say you must have personal insurance, in that it is up to you to know what your policy requires. Really crappy way to set new drivers up for failure.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> That is fraud, punishable by law, a charge Uber/Lyft will not defend


You probably know this already...
But NEVER _*(voluntarily)*_ inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
Catholic or otherwise...

Satisfied, now?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> You probably know this already...
> But NEVER _*(voluntarily)*_ inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
> Catholic or otherwise...
> 
> Satisfied, now?


That's bullshit advice. Sorry. If you are an undisclosed commercial driver being insured by your personal insurance you are in deep deep shit in any case. Your personal insurance could be pulled and not pay for any accident if they felt like it.
*
In most cases full time drivers are writing off every MILE on their vehicle which means there IS NO PERSONAL USE involved!*


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> You probably know this already...
> But NEVER _*(voluntarily)*_ inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
> Catholic or otherwise...
> 
> Satisfied, now?


Well, I am not your insurance provider, so it really doesn't matter if I am satisfied. I am just stating a fact. It is fraud, punishable fraud, and I believe the new drivers deserve to know this.
There are a lot of things people do which are punishable by law, cheat on taxes, break the speed limit, etc. But they do know they are violating the law, they do know there are consequences.
It seems it is a little more gray for these TMC companies, Who tend to mislead their drivers.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> That's bullshit advice. Sorry. If you are an undisclosed commercial driver being insured by your personal insurance you are in deep deep shit in any case. Your personal insurance could be pulled and not pay for any accident if they felt like it.
> *
> In most cases full time drivers are writing off every MILE on their vehicle which means there IS NO PERSONAL USE involved!*


Very true, and once the IRS joins forces with insurance companies, the end result will probably be pretty ugly


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I don't recall receiving any insurance protocol information from Uber/Lyft regarding insurance procedures/requirements/what if's/instructions whatsoever. THEY are supposedly covering me as an independent contractor? Unlikely. It's also just as unlikely that my personal insurance will either.
> 
> This remains as 'bend over' territory for all 'independent contractor' drivers imho. And an area that every driver will 'experience' sooner or later.


The major gap is in between runs. And this is a time which can be very dangerous, drivers u-turning, watching the phone to watch the surge, etc. Piling up at various event entrances, etc.&#8230; all at a location, in time, when the fact they are commercial providers will be most obvious.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Very true, and once the IRS joins forces with insurance companies, the end result will probably be pretty ugly


Every full time driver who drives APP OFF during the course of their daily routine *searching for a new area for rides, which we ALL do continually, is not driving for personal use.*

I have yet to see any written clarifications on this matter from my state insurance commission and I DO NOT BELIEVE that I am covered by either UBER or my personal insurance. There are other 'ploys' that I can employ if I'm corned which I will not divulge here other than to say I have another business to back me up on the personal scale and that is IF my app was OFF during an accident or if the accident investigators are not smart enough to subpena(sp?) my app data from Uber to see if I was APP ON.

Still not sure if that means APP ON on the way to or finishing a ride or just app on search for a ride either.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Every full time driver who drives APP OFF during the course of their daily routine *searching for a new area for rides, which we ALL do continually, is not driving for personal use.*
> 
> I have yet to see any written clarifications on this matter from my state insurance commission and I DO NOT BELIEVE that I am covered by either UBER or my personal insurance. There are other 'ploys' that I can employ if I'm corned which I will not divulge here other than to say I have another business to back me up on the personal scale and that is IF my app was OFF during an accident or if the accident investigators are not smart enough to subpena my app data from Uber to see if I was APP ON. Still not sure if that means APP ON on the way to or finishing a ride or just app on search for a ride either.


When push comes to shove, the drivers, and the public, will need to rely on a company which has been less than forthcoming on other issues.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> When push comes to shove, the drivers, and the public, will need to rely on a company which has been less than forthcoming on other issues.


I am not not not willing to become a legal guinea pig in this matter because it would ruin anyone to lose their license, be involved with insurance fraud and be non insurable or insurable at a huge price after the fact. **** that!

*So, all you so called 'professional drivers' (including mySELF) better start factoring in the cost of legitimate commercial insurance into your budgets, period.*

This will be on my Johnny Quest list starting after I get back from vacation.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

AND I might add it will be somewhat important to make such searches anonymous initially because the 'insurance companies' have a big computer net to 'report' any such drivers into their systems IF they can do so.

*So even my 'search' will be undisclosed to the freakin' vultures*, initially, until "I" am satisfied with 'answers.'


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Very true, and once the IRS joins forces with insurance companies, the end result will probably be pretty ugly


What's total BS is this post. It's 100% pure FUD being spread by the haters of Uber. There are hundreds of thousands of people claiming miles on their taxes that neither have, or need commercial insurance. Every executive that drive his nice high end personal car to a meeting , every sales rep going to a customer's location, to even a union buddy of mine that gets paid extra per his contract if he has to work at a distant location, can deduct those miles. In fact, if you work two jobs, you can deduct the miles you drive from job one to job two. So stop with the pure BS on what the IRS will be doing.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> What's total BS is this post. It's 100% pure FUD being spread by the haters of Uber. There are hundreds of thousands of people claiming miles on their taxes that neither have, or need commercial insurance. Every executive that drive his nice high end personal car to a meeting , every sales rep going to a customer's location, to even a union buddy of mine that gets paid extra per his contract if he has to work at a distant location, can deduct those miles. In fact, if you work two jobs, you can deduct the miles you drive from job one to job two. So stop with the pure BS on what the IRS will be doing.


*Direct driving for HIRE is an entirely different insurance animal *than a 'normal' business person driving customers during the course of work.

Most business have business insurance to cover these types of situations. It's always the little guy who doesn't check and can't figure things out that gets screwed, as many of us so well should know by now.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> What's total BS is this post. It's 100% pure FUD being spread by the haters of Uber. There are hundreds of thousands of people claiming miles on their taxes that neither have, or need commercial insurance. Every executive that drive his nice high end personal car to a meeting , every sales rep going to a customer's location, to even a union buddy of mine that gets paid extra per his contract if he has to work at a distant location, can deduct those miles. In fact, if you work two jobs, you can deduct the miles you drive from job one to job two. So stop with the pure BS on what the IRS will be doing.


what is B.S is your ignorance of the laws, insurance, and IRS requirements. The only reason this is a business write off for you is because you are charging people to ride in the vehicle. That, in itself, makes this fraudulent use on your insurance unless your insurance provider explicitly allows commercial use on the personal policy. In my state that is illegal. The fact that you claim the business mileage on the IRS says the time you were trolling between runs was also COMMERCIAL USE. Dismissing these realities as "Uber hate" is no different than those who dismiss criticism of Pres. Obama as "racism" . Great way to end the discussion, but definitely not a good way to deal with the issue.

EDITED to remove previous junky voice-to-text


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> You probably know this already...
> But NEVER inform your insurance company about your Ubering...
> Catholic or otherwise...


Wow.

You US UberX drivers are really not the full shilling.

Do you not realise the entire US UberX situation is untenable?

And all the stuff published about UberX in the US doesn't help the UberX drivers in other countries where they are properly Insured and Regulated.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Oh, one more thing...
> I haven't heard of any, not even one, Uber driver ending up in Jail for insurance fraud...
> Have you?


Just because you haven't heard about it, in the US as in most other countries UberX are properly Insured, does not mean it hasn't happened.

Why would anybody be dafy enough to work for a company that wants you to potentially commit Insurance Fraud?

Might explain the multiple rate drops.

Signing up for a job where you have coverage when pob but not when waiting for work.

What a crock.

If you are in your car waiting for a job you are driving for Hire+Reward.

Look at the potential liability for the UberX driver involved in the fatal accident at the crossing.

Uber really had his back......


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## Kaz (Sep 16, 2014)

Andy Fielder said:


> I got slammed into my teenager in a big hurry and my car is out of commission to Halloween. It happened at the beginning of the month so I won't be back on the road till November. Do I have to tell Uber since it happened to me on my own time? Will they deactivate me? Thanks.


No, UBER does not need to know this. It sucks but it happened to me already, was out of commission for a week or so. And DO NOT tell your insurance company you UBER or use your car for this. They will deny your claim if you have to file with your company so I would file with the other person's insurance and let them pay for your car to be fixed . What you do off Uber time isn't really their concern. Also even though it was someone else's fault, be careful if you sue and try to claim lost wages. You really arent supposed to be using your car for this purpose anyways and you may really open up a can of worms trying to claim lost income due to someone else's negligence. It sucks I know.


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Worst advice I have heard on this forum. Committing insurance fraud and ending up in jail is not worth lying.


You're an idiot. Its only fraud if you lie about the CIRCUMSTANCES of the issue. As in, you're attempting to get money from insurance that you wouldn't otherwise get. He wasn't working, he was driving in his personal time. It has nothing to do with Uber, and as such, they don't need to know.

I'm not reading all 3 pages of this thread. In case no one else has said it: Yes, inform Uber that you'll be offline for several weeks, and ask them to deactivate the PHONE only. They will do this, and save you the $10/week fee that would otherwise continue being charged.

Also, to the idiots talking about the IRS mileage deduction being fraud: You are using your vehicle for commercial purposes. That is all that matters to the IRS. Nothing more, nothing less. This makes you eligible for the deduction. It has nothing to do with people paying to be in your car. It simply does not matter. This is coming from someone who has done his own taxes, and taken multiple classes from tax companies, over the past 18 years. Stop spreading misinformation. You have no idea what you're talking about.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Just because you haven't heard about it, in the US as in most other countries UberX are properly Insured, does not mean it hasn't happened.
> 
> Why would anybody be dafy enough to work for a company that wants you to potentially commit Insurance Fraud?
> 
> ...


None of the above is really the point. The point here in the U.S. is how our 'personal insurance' plays into these matters. Most 'personal insurance' companies DO NOT COVER 'for hire' drivers, particularly if they drive full time for 'whoever.' And it's more than questionable whether full time drivers who do not have their 'apps on' are even covered by anyone i.e. while taking lunch, driving to another area, etc etc.

There is a lot of legally untested and undisclosed ground here, which is EXACTLY how the lawyers like things here as they 'feed off of' and 'monetarily vulturize' anyone they can get their hands on in typical U.S. system manipulating fashions. We prey upon the weak in any forms here because it's a way of life.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Droosk said:


> You're an idiot. Its only fraud if you lie about the CIRCUMSTANCES of the issue. As in, you're attempting to get money from insurance that you wouldn't otherwise get. He wasn't working, he was driving in his personal time. It has nothing to do with Uber, and as such, they don't need to know.
> 
> I'm not reading all 3 pages of this thread. In case no one else has said it: Yes, inform Uber that you'll be offline for several weeks, and ask them to deactivate the PHONE only. They will do this, and save you the $10/week fee that would otherwise continue being charged.
> 
> *Also, to the idiots talking about the IRS mileage deduction being fraud: You are using your vehicle for commercial purposes. That is all that matters to the IRS. Nothing more, nothing less. This makes you eligible for the deduction.* It has nothing to do with people paying to be in your car. It simply does not matter. This is coming from someone who has done his own taxes, and taken multiple classes from tax companies, over the past 18 years. Stop spreading misinformation. You have no idea what you're talking about.


An observation is that anyone who drives full time i.e. writes off ALL of their mileage as a write off *has no 'personal insurance' leg to stand on because they are technically 'all commercial all the time.'*


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

It is not the IRS's job, nor do they care, about your insurance standing or levels. At no point in ANY paperwork between you and the IRS do they ask for your insurance info, it is simply not relevant to the deduction. All they care about is the COST. If you were to calculate your costs manually as your deduction (rather than using the simplified standard deduction), per the IRS, this is what is included:

"Include gas, oil, repairs, tires, insurance, registration fees, licenses, and depreciation"

They don't care if you use 91 octane fuel. They don't care if you use 5w30 oil. They don't care if you use 22" tires or 15" tires. And they don't care what level insurance you carry. All they care about is the EXPENSE. The actual price paid. It doesn't matter if the vehicle is used 100% commercially, or 50%. So long as you accurately report your mileage, and can prove your mileage if you get audited. Thats it.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Droosk said:


> You're an idiot. Its only fraud if you lie about the CIRCUMSTANCES of the issue. As in, you're attempting to get money from insurance that you wouldn't otherwise get. He wasn't working, he was driving in his personal time. It has nothing to do with Uber, and as such, they don't need to know.
> 
> I'm not reading all 3 pages of this thread. In case no one else has said it: Yes, inform Uber that you'll be offline for several weeks, and ask them to deactivate the PHONE only. They will do this, and save you the $10/week fee that would otherwise continue being charged.
> 
> Also, to the idiots talking about the IRS mileage deduction being fraud: You are using your vehicle for commercial purposes. That is all that matters to the IRS. Nothing more, nothing less. This makes you eligible for the deduction. It has nothing to do with people paying to be in your car. It simply does not matter. This is coming from someone who has done his own taxes, and taken multiple classes from tax companies, over the past 18 years. Stop spreading misinformation. You have no idea what you're talking about.


Droosk, please stop spreading misinformation! You should always inform your insurance company when you use your car for UBERING. Which is what I was replying to in my post. Please go back and reread it. I made no mention about "personal time" time driving. Misleading your insurance company by staying quiet to Uber driving when you know your insurance policy prohibits driving for hire is fraud. Pure and simple.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Droosk said:


> It is not the IRS's job, nor do they care, about your insurance standing or levels. At no point in ANY paperwork between you and the IRS do they ask for your insurance info, it is simply not relevant to the deduction.


In any legal dispute all such records related to the business are able to be subpoenaed. And yes, any good attorney will go directly for the throat on this matter *so YES, it does matter what you are claiming 'officially' to the U.S. government when it comes to business and any lawsuits that result from driving and it is foolish to think otherwise.*



> All they care about is the COST. If you were to calculate your costs manually as your deduction (rather than using the simplified standard deduction), per the IRS, this is what is included:
> 
> "Include gas, oil, repairs, tires, insurance, registration fees, licenses, and depreciation"
> 
> They don't care if you use 91 octane fuel. They don't care if you use 5w30 oil. They don't care if you use 22" tires or 15" tires. And they don't care what level insurance you carry. All they care about is the EXPENSE. The actual price paid. It doesn't matter if the vehicle is used 100% commercially, or 50%. So long as you accurately report your mileage, and can prove your mileage if you get audited. Thats it.


My observation is that full time drivers who write off 100% of their mileage technically *DON'T HAVE personal auto insurance, period.*

I suspect that this fact will hit a few nerves, as it should. It sure as hell has hit mine after a recent accident where I was not at fault, but 'app on' and 'unreported' to my personal insurance company i.e. they do not know I am Ubering. My only out is that I DO have another business that I can 'claim' I was doing at the time, even 'app on.' Perhaps my 'app on' was not to my knowledge...a technical glitch...thought it was off.


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Droosk, please stop spreading misinformation! You should always inform your insurance company when you use your car for UBERING. Which is what I was replying to in my post. Please go back and reread it. I made no mention about "personal time" time driving. Misleading your insurance company by staying quiet to Uber driving when you know your insurance policy prohibits driving for hire is fraud. Pure and simple.


You apparently don't understand the meaning of fraud. If I hit someone while Ubering (Not gonna happen, but lets say IF), then Ubers policy is the primary. It pays the bills. MY insurance never gets involved. No fraud.

If someone hits me while ubering, THEIR insurance is the primary, with Uber being secondary. THEY pay the bills. No fraud.

If I hit someone while NOT ubering, MY insurance is the primary. It is serving its purpose, as it was not for commercial use. No fraud.

What part of this do you not understand?


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

scrub, you don't seem to get it. You're claiming a STANDARD DEDUCTION of mileage. That is inclusive of any and all related expenses. I've had the IRS ask me for information before, a few years ago, in regards to a different business/1099 operation. I sent them my detailed mileage log. 2 weeks later, they sent me a letter thanking me for my cooperation, and approved the deduction. That is all it takes. Its not difficult to grasp here.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Droosk said:


> You apparently don't understand the meaning of fraud. If I hit someone while Ubering (Not gonna happen, but lets say IF), then Ubers policy is the primary. It pays the bills. MY insurance never gets involved. No fraud.
> 
> If someone hits me while ubering, THEIR insurance is the primary, with Uber being secondary. THEY pay the bills. No fraud.
> 
> ...


You my friend would just be employing insurance FRAUD. Your 'personal insurance' theoretically covers your vehicle full time and ANY accidents that happen under their insurance coverage MUST be reported to them, period, *regardless of how you or I might think we can twist the story line. *

*Unless you have a 'specific exemption' clause to this effect, that someone other than your personal insurance is 'in effect' (not by your surmising or Uber promises) are from time to time 'covering you' which ALERTS them you are using your vehicle COMMERCIALLY, drivers are both lying and screwed.*

I will guarantee anyone that in any bad accident resulting in legal action 'all the parties' will be dragged to the legal table regardless of driver claims because that is the reality of our system and as soon as that happens, drivers are SCREWED.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Droosk said:


> scrub, you don't seem to get it. You're claiming a STANDARD DEDUCTION of mileage. That is inclusive of any and all related expenses. I've had the IRS ask me for information before, a few years ago, in regards to a different business/1099 operation. I sent them my detailed mileage log. 2 weeks later, they sent me a letter thanking me for my cooperation, and approved the deduction. That is all it takes. Its not difficult to grasp here.


It has nothing to do with the IRS. It has everything to do with proving by evidence that 'full time drivers' are in fact full time commercial IF they are writing off ALL their mileage.

So you are entirely missing the points being observed. Nothing personal.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Droosk said:


> You apparently don't understand the meaning of fraud. If I hit someone while Ubering (Not gonna happen, but lets say IF), then Ubers policy is the primary. It pays the bills. MY insurance never gets involved. No fraud.
> 
> If someone hits me while ubering, THEIR insurance is the primary, with Uber being secondary. THEY pay the bills. No fraud.
> 
> ...


If you are pulling away from a passenger's residence, and hit someone in that neighborhood, I guarantee you that the courts will consider you to be "ubering" even though you have dropped the client off. If you do a turnaround in front of a hotel, and hit a crossing pedestrian, I guarantee the hotel will tell somebody that you are an uber driver. If you are foolish enough to try to claim otherwise, you deserve to have your insurance dropped. If your policy specifically states that the insured vehicle cannot, must not be used for commercial transportation, and you do so anyway, you are either committing fraud, or you are driving uninsured. Both are crimes in all 50 states


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Droosk said:


> You apparently don't understand the meaning of fraud. If I hit someone while Ubering (Not gonna happen, but lets say IF), then Ubers policy is the primary. It pays the bills. MY insurance never gets involved. No fraud.
> 
> If someone hits me while ubering, THEIR insurance is the primary, with Uber being secondary. THEY pay the bills. No fraud.
> 
> ...


I understand insurance laws very well, thank you. Again, if you hit someone while you are out for commercial purposes, and your insurance company specifically states you cannot use it for commercial purposes, and you claim that you were not, that is fraud. Don't believe me? Ask your insurance provider. in fact, have you asked your insurance provider what their official policy is regarding commercial transportation? In Texas, you cannot use personal insurance to cover commercial transportation. If you are so confident what you are doing is okay, you should have a statement from your provider. Do you?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> It has nothing to do with the IRS. It has everything to do with proving by evidence that 'full time drivers' are in fact full time commercial IF they are writing off ALL their mileage.
> 
> So you are entirely missing the points being observed. Nothing personal.


And my conspiracy theory statement about the IRS and insurance, is not really too far-fetched. States and local governments are already getting worried about the "loss of revenue" with the 1099 trend which is highly popular in California. Can I see a show of hands of those who believe the government is going to take loss of revenue lightly? Bueller.....Bueller? Lol


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> If you are pulling away from a passenger's residence, and hit someone in that neighborhood, I guarantee you that the courts will consider you to be "ubering" even though you have dropped the client off. If you do a turnaround in front of a hotel, and hit a crossing pedestrian, I guarantee the hotel will tell somebody that you are an uber driver. If you are foolish enough to try to claim otherwise, you deserve to have your insurance dropped. If your policy specifically states that the insured vehicle cannot, must not be used for commercial transportation, and you do so anyway, you are either committing fraud, or you are driving uninsured. Both are crimes in all 50 states


I think you hit the facts pretty clearly above. I doubt there is a single personal insurance company in the U.S. that is providing ride share drivers insurance because of their undisclosed commercial driving.

I've heard that states like Colorado have passed some laws regarding these matters but I know for a fact that national insurance companies like Geico or whoever does not and will not provide 'part time' insurance to commercial drivers for their personal vehicles. They (the "so called private" insurance companies) WILL get dragged into suits regardless of such 'driver claims' of "I thought Uber covered me totally during X times." The insurance companies *know that defense won't hold up and that is why they will instantly cancel anyone they know are driving commercially. *

*Such private insurance imho is obtained under FRAUD.*

So again, the drivers will be utterly screwed to the walls.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> And my conspiracy theory statement about the IRS and insurance, is not really too far-fetched. States and local governments are already getting worried about the "loss of revenue" with the 1099 trend which is highly popular in California. Can I see a show of hands of those who believe the government is going to take loss of revenue lightly? Bueller.....Bueller? Lol


The only way I'm seeing around this is to attempt to get full time commercial insurance that covers drivers if they 'happen' to be driving non-commercially/privately *OR just don't use the Uber vehicle for anything personal.*

I'm not about to be a state 'legal test case' I HOPE. I've been through long legal slogs before and the little people NEVER ever win.

He who has the most money wins.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I think you hit the facts pretty clearly above. I doubt there is a single personal insurance company in the U.S. that is providing ride share drivers insurance because of their undisclosed commercial driving.
> 
> I've heard that states like Colorado have passed some laws regarding these matters but I know for a fact that national insurance companies like Geico or whoever does not and will not provide 'part time' insurance to commercial drivers for their personal vehicles. They WILL get dragged into suits regardless of such 'claims' of "I thought Uber covered me totally during X times." They know that defense won't hold up and that is why they will instantly cancel anyone they know are driving commercially.
> 
> ...


Some of them are choosing to be screwed to the wall. In the end, whoever they injure will be the ones screwed to the wall. They are rather proud of their lawbreaking, and in my opinion, they do nothing to help the cause or image of TNCs. Others are just very naïve, and that is why I post here.
I think the transportation business can be very rewarding, but if you have no clue what you were doing, and no sense about the serious liabilities, it is not quite rewarding. Well, at least not for the driver. The "Technology platform" cleans up quite well


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> The only way I'm seeing around this is to attempt to get full time commercial insurance that covers drivers if they 'happen' to be driving non-commercially/privately *OR just don't use the Uber vehicle for anything personal.*
> 
> I'm not about to be a state 'legal test case' I HOPE. I've been through long legal slogs before and the little people NEVER ever win.
> 
> He who has the most money wins.


In the problem for many, is it is nearly impossible to obtain commercial insurance without some proof of commercial experience, professional training, etc.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Some of them are choosing to be screwed to the wall. In the end, whoever they injure will be the ones screwed to the wall. They are rather proud of their lawbreaking, and in my opinion, they do nothing to help the cause or image of TNCs. Others are just very naïve, and that is why I post here.
> I think the transportation business can be very rewarding, but if you have no clue what you were doing, and no sense about the serious liabilities, it is not quite rewarding. Well, at least not for the driver. The "Technology platform" cleans up quite well


Uber is technically lying out their asses to the drivers is what it amounts to. They are purposefully leading drivers INTO such frauds by taking their personal insurance as proof of insurance when most state laws would say such insurance would not even be valid if the insurance companies knew such vehicles were being used commercially.

They too are committing outright fraud, but I'm sure they think they can cover their asses with some nonsense legal defenses.

Get enough accidents piling up, which will happen to EVERY DRIVER sooner or later and things will come out in the wash. And those drivers who get caught up in it will pay a horrible price. Loss of insurance. Having to pay more...etc etc. The driver class will again be predatorized by the .corps.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Uber is technically lying out their asses to the drivers is what it amounts to. They are purposefully leading drivers INTO such frauds by taking their personal insurance as proof of insurance when most state laws would say such insurance would not even be valid if the insurance companies knew such vehicles were being used commercially.
> 
> They too are committing outright fraud, but I'm sure they think they can cover their asses with some nonsense legal defenses.
> 
> Get enough accidents piling up, which will happen to EVERY DRIVER sooner or later and things will come out in the wash. And those drivers who get caught up in it will pay a horrible price. Loss of insurance. Having to pay more...etc etc. The driver class will again be predatorized by the .corps.


Remember, they are just a "technology platform, connecting drivers with passengers "


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

There is no sense responding any further to Droosk. He/she will blindly follow Uber beacause he/she has drank the Uber Kool-aid.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> There is no sense responding any further to Droosk. He/she will blindly follow Uber beacause he/she has drank the Uber Kool-aid.


True, I just hate when people like that mentor new drivers. I realize that adults should think for themselves, but I have met some very nice but naive new drivers, with no clue what they are really getting into. I understand the need to make a decent living, I hate seeing them be misled.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> In the problem for many, is it is nearly impossible to obtain commercial insurance without some proof of commercial experience, professional training, etc.


I would venture that at least 3/4 of the UberX drivers in Colorado, particularly younger ones, would test positive for marijuana (residual-not necessarily high at the time of the accident) use as well. Just a guess but I'd guess it would be high percentage because it's supposedly 'legal' there.

Uh huh. It's LEGAL. Til you get in commercial accident with injured pax. Then you're probably going to do jail time in addition to all the other bad things that will more than likely happen.

I wonder how many UberX drivers are casual pot users? I'd bet a ton of them are and there is no drug testing requirement either. I wonder if Uber's insurance will cover THEM in such cases with such poor management on their parts. Most of these kids are unemployed and unemployable for 'reasons' which probably include their recreational habits.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Remember, they are just a "technology platform, connecting drivers with passengers "


Interestingly, when tapping the customer app on a phone, a screen for Uber comes up while loading with a trademarked slogan of "Everyone's Private Driver".


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Remember, they are just a "technology platform, connecting drivers with passengers "


I believe there will be many legal vultures at their doors in the very near future. I doubt that kind of defense would hold up worth a crap in any examination when THEY are providing the supposed 'insurance' for the rides AND fraudulently enticed their drivers into the situations.

Hell, the attornies pick up pax just like we do, only on a larger scale.

I just try to stay out of all legal gears and that can be a full time gig in itself... Specially if you've been around this kind of nonsense for awhile.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

We're barely making minimum wage, and this guy's coming out with this IRS BS angle...
Shhhhhhhsh...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> We're barely making minimum wage, and this guy's coming out with this IRS BS angle...
> Shhhhhhhsh...


I'm sorry you are unable to read for comprehension. The point was: if you are claming all mileage in between runs for business purposes, that shores up the point that you are committing fraud against your insurance if you claim you are not using the vehicle commercially.
I'm going out on a limb here to assume you have never been involved in a complicated lawsuit. And, obviously you have magic underwear which will prevent you from ever being in a commercial accident. You should stop being a driver, and start selling that underwear to the rest of us. You would make way more than minimum-wage!!!!!!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> We're barely making minimum wage, and this guy's coming out with this IRS BS angle...
> Shhhhhhhsh...


That's why it's important to consider how much further down the economic scale a driver may want to slide. It appears to me to be a very slippery slope for the little people, as usual, and particularly in this gig. This sonofabitch is fraught with legal landmines that are all 'untested' to date.

That being said, I'm still driving and have my little 'defense niche' carved out, which will also often keep the legal vultures at bay as well. They like the easy prey and the low hanging fruit, so some poor bastards that don't have a clue will be the first down the toilet bowl.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I believe there will be many legal vultures at their doors in the very near future. I doubt that kind of defense would hold up worth a crap in any examination when THEY are providing the supposed 'insurance' for the rides AND fraudulently enticed their drivers into the situations.
> 
> Hell, the attornies pick up pax just like we do, only on a larger scale.
> 
> I just try to stay out of all legal gears and that can be a full time gig in itself... Specially if you've been around this kind of nonsense for awhile.


Lawsuits are ugly. Commercial lawsuits are uglier. One of the reasons the airport requires our certificate of insurance is because they want to be damned sure they are not sued if one of our vehicles hits a passenger crossing the street.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Lawsuits are ugly. Commercial lawsuits are uglier. One of the reasons the airport requires our certificate of insurance is because they want to be damned sure they are not sued if one of our vehicles hits a passenger crossing the street.


 Yeah, and I doubt very much the 'app off' test would hold up too far with 'personal insurance' either. Just dropped of pax.. Run over someone..on private insurance? Nope. Go to jail. Go directly to jail.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> That's why it's important to consider how much further down the economic scale a driver may want to slide. It appears to me to be a very slippery slope for the little people, as usual, and particularly in this gig. This sonofabitch is fraught with legal landmines that are all 'untested' to date.
> 
> That being said, I'm still driving and have my little 'defense niche' carved out, which will also often keep the legal vultures at bay as well. They like the easy prey and the low hanging fruit, so some poor bastards that don't have a clue will be the first down the toilet bowl.


Ahhhh. So you already have a pair of the magic underwear? Lol!!!!!!


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Geico never asked me any question all these years...
I think they are happy with my automatic premium payments...
I have never volunteered any info about Uber...
Life's Good...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Geico never asked me any question all these years...
> I think they are happy with automatic premium payments...
> I have never volunteered any info about Uber...
> Life's Good...


They don't have to ask you, you signed a policy. Are you saying there is nothing in the policy about commercial use? I don't believe that for one moment.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Ahhhh. So you already have a pair of the magic underwear? Lol!!!!!!


Nope. I fully anticipate in the case of 'issues' I will be drawn and quartered, and have prepared accordingly to drop my drawers...

The defense of most drivers is zero. I have several that will cost them (insurance companies/lawyers) some money to get around, so, it may help, it may not.

I'll fire the weapons when/as needed. A knife at a gunfight is better than no weapon at all in this particular arena.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Geico never asked me any question all these years...
> I think they are happy with my automatic premium payments...
> I have never volunteered any info about Uber...
> Life's Good...


I'd pretty much guarantee that if you told Geico the truth they'd cancel you immediately, as would 100% of personal insurance providers.

It's fraud, period.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> They don't have to ask you, you signed a policy. Are you saying there is nothing in the policy about commercial use? I don't believe that for one moment.


Do you read everything before you sign?
I don't...
Not when I open a credit card or get a mortgage...
Nor when I sign for Amazon, Ebay, or Paypal account...
Living in US is too complicated for combing thru fine prints of everything you do in life...


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I'd pretty much guarantee that if you told Geico the truth they'd cancel you immediately, as would 100% of personal insurance providers.
> 
> It's fraud, period.


Why tell when they don't ask?
If it's OK with Geico, it's OK with me...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Do you read everythin before you sign?
> I don't...
> Not when I open a credit card or get a mortgage...
> Nor when I sign for Amazon, Ebay, or Paypal account...
> Living in US is too complicated for combing thru fine prints of everything you do in life...


The 'fine print' guarantees your emasculation. 99.9% of drivers are driving on a wish and a prayer, BUT it is only a question of time before the gears catch them all.

You're not going to injure anyone on Ebay, Amazon or by getting a mortgage. As soon as you hurt anyone, even on a minor basis, it's probably good bye to the license for awhile and loss of insurability for awhile. Think you can handle that there big guy?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Do you read everything before you sign?
> I don't...
> Not when I open a credit card or get a mortgage...
> Nor when I sign for Amazon, Ebay, or Paypal account...
> Living in US is too complicated for combing thru fine prints of everything you do in life...


Lmao! Then, you just made my case for me. You are either driving uninsured, or you are committing fraud by claiming that you are not using it commercially. Either way, it is highly irresponsible. If you lose your shorts, you deserve it. I just hope no one else loses their shorts because of you.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

This FUD in this thread is off the chart. Yeah the drivers in Colorado are all high on pot, we're all committing insurance fraud, your PC is going to blow up, your cat is going to kill you tonight, we're all going to die!!!!!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Why tell when they don't ask?
> If it's OK with Geico, it's OK with me...


Uh, no, it's not OK with Geico. That is the message of 'fact.' Not that 'facts' mean anything to illegal people.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

That's what I would like to ask all those who cheat on their spouses...
Tiger, anyone?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> This FUD in this thread is off the chart. Yeah the drivers in Colorado are all high on pot, we're all committing insurance fraud, *your PC is going to blow up, your cat is going to kill you tonight, we're all going to die!!!!!*


*Worthless comparisons.* Every driver involved in any accident stands a very 'high' chance of having several issues that will not contain an 'it's all good dog' ending for them.

And Uber, well, they could give a shit less, obviously. I'd appreciate it if I could see their legal defense for 'me' but I suspect whatever it is doesn't include me, but does protect them in typical lying ass Wall Street fashions.

You'd think we've learned, but poor people never learn because they can't afford to learn.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> This FUD in this thread is off the chart. Yeah the drivers in Colorado are all high on pot, we're all committing insurance fraud, your PC is going to blow up, your cat is going to kill you tonight, we're all going to die!!!!!


There is no uncertainty here. You either have Verified coverage from your provider, or you do not. Most transportation providers take life and death and loss of limb very seriously. The public trusts us with their lives. If you think that is mock worthy, you really need to get the hell off of our streets.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, no, it's not OK with Geico. That is the message of 'fact.' Not that 'facts' mean anything to illegal people.


Yeah...
Tell that to all the Mexicans crossing the border...
Yet the world turns...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Yeah...
> Tell that to all the Mexicans crossing the border...
> Yet the world turns...


Don't you know that our illustrious system want's everyone to be illegal? That's so the mf'ers with $$$$$$$$$$ can feed off of us all and that's also why we have the f'ed up systems we have.

The first little fort everyone should have is a sub-S or LLC to at least put up a LITTLE line of defense. THEN get your insurance under that entities name. Most insurance companies WILL do this. So you already put their titties in a wringer, at least a LITTLE bit.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> There is no uncertainty here. You either have Verified coverage from your provider, or you do not. Most transportation providers take life and death and loss of limb very seriously. The public trusts us with their lives. If you think that is mock worthy, you really need to get the hell off of our streets.


I have insurance, When I'm out there driving myself to the supermarket and thinking about my business my wife or my cat, my auto coverage is in effect. When I'm out there driving, after I drop someone off, and thinking about my business my wife or my cat, I'm covered. I'm not cruising the streets looking for people flagging me down. I'm doing the EXACT same thing I did this morning when I ran over the the post office and the gym, when my app was off. I wasn't thinking about Uber, just as I'm not thinking too much about Uber when after I drop someone off. Now if your doing this full time, and that is what your thinking about maybe YOU need that level of insurance, but I don't.

Out of curiosity I just looked under Progressives commercial insurance and the categories listed included things such as an accountant, a writer, sales rep, candy maker, and on and on. How many of these folks to you think have it? How many guys driving for Dominoes do you think have it? How many people doing restaurant mystery shops in exchange for free food have it? I coold go on all day. The fact is, I owned a restaurant and I never added my car to the policy. Why, the same reason 99% of people don't, because it's not that big of an issue and insurance is way behind the curve and the only people who get that level of insurance are the ones with real risk (such as having employees drive, etc)

So again, this whole thread is just FUD FUD FUD


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Well you are wrong,


Piotrowski said:


> I have insurance, When I'm out there driving myself to the supermarket and thinking about my business my wife or my cat, my auto coverage is in effect. When I'm out there driving, after I drop someone off, and thinking about my business my wife or my cat, I'm covered. I'm not cruising the streets looking for people flagging me down. I'm doing the EXACT same thing I did this morning when I ran over the the post office and the gym, when my app was off. I wasn't thinking about Uber, just as I'm not thinking too much about Uber when after I drop someone off. Now if your doing this full time, and that is what your thinking about maybe YOU need that level of insurance, but I don't.
> 
> Out of curiosity I just looked under Progressives commercial insurance and the categories listed included things such as an accountant, a writer, sales rep, candy maker, and on and on. How many of these folks to you think have it? How many guys driving for Dominoes do you think have it? How many people doing restaurant mystery shops in exchange for free food have it? I coold go on all day. The fact is, I owned a restaurant and I never added my car to the policy. Why, the same reason 99% of people don't, because it's not that big of an issue and insurance is way behind the curve and the only people who get that level of insurance are the ones with real risk (such as having employees drive, etc)
> 
> So again, this whole thread is just FUD FUD FUD


Your owning a restaurant has nothing to do with this, UNLESS you were providing delivery, then you would have likely been required to have additional coverage, depending on your policy.
Most policies are VERY clear about this. Pretend all you want - the lawyers and legislators always win. YOU use your PERSONAL vehicle to provide COMMERCIAL transportation. Does not matter what you think about it, it does not matter what MOST people think about it. All that matters is the classification of use, and IF your policy restricts COMMERCIAL coverage under the PERSONAL policy, you are uninsured. Does not matter what you THINK, or what you CHOOSE to believe, all that matters is the contractual agreement. It is quite simple - send a note to your provider and ask them if your being an Uber driver renders your vehicle policy null and void. The answer will be yes, or no. Have you asked them? If you have not asked them WHY? Because you want to claim IGNORANCE in the event of a tragedy? It does not matter if you are driving part time or full time. Hell we have to have full commercial insurance on a limo which sits 80% of the year!!! When you drop off a passenger on the other side of town, for a fee beyond 'ride share/carpool", you are commercially liable. When you drop them off and pull away from their home, you have NO OTHER REASON to be there but a commercial one. No insurer is going to eat the extra risk of the EXTRA miles and liabilities, and as I said, some state insurance laws prohibit personal coverage for commercial use. Responsible drivers know PRECISELY what their liability coverage is, at ALL TIMES.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

You live your way...
I'll live my way...


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Again, you're thinking in your small small world. I have every reason to be anywhere I am, as what I'm doing there at that precise moment is what I decide it is. I could have easily have taken a drive there as every person and every home is a potential customer to me. In my mind, I switch gears, when the app goes off, and I switch it to where I was when I'm done. If you are not doing that and only doing one business than you are living a small life, sorry. For the record I tell my insurance company I drive around a lot, which is what I am doing. When she asked me if I'm doing it related to my business, my answer is everything I do is related to my business as my business is me 

Now when I stop doing that, and I do my Uber thing, their COMMERCIAL insurance kicks in as it should be. This is all it needs to be.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Again, you're thinking in your small small world. I have every reason to be anywhere I am, as what I'm doing there at that precise moment is what I decide it is. I could have easily have taken a drive there as every person and every home is a potential customer to me. In my mind, I switch gears, when the app goes off, and I switch it to where I was when I'm done. If you are not doing that and only doing one business than you are living a small life, sorry. For the record I tell my insurance company I drive around a lot, which is what I am doing. When she asked me if I'm doing it related to my business, my answer is everything I do is related to my business as my business is me
> 
> Now when I stop doing that, and I do my Uber thing, their COMMERCIAL insurance kicks in as it should be. This is all it needs to be.


And that attitude is precisely why these companies are getting a bad reputation. Whatever, I'm covered, not really worried about you. You hit my kid, my car, My lawyers will come after you. Glad you have that all taken care of. Have a good one


----------



## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)




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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Andy to answer your initial question Uber should require it's driver to report any accident to them, but I do not think they do. They should do it for 2 reasons:


What I do on my free time when I am not logged on, or have company dress in my window is not Uber's business. Well except for DUI's or something. They are not my employer. I am one of their contractors. In fact, when I am logged on and "protected" by Fall River or whatever Uber insurance is called, what I am doing in my car really is not my insurance company's business either.

I could very well see Uber asking for new pictures after being reported to them. But I also bet they would waive the 10 dollar a week phone hit.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Only if you insist...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> What I do on my free time when I am not logged on, or have company dress in my window is not Uber's business. Well except for DUI's or something. They are not my employer. I am one of their contractors. In fact, when I am logged on and "protected" by Fall River or whatever Uber insurance is called, what I am doing in my car really is not my insurance company's business either.
> 
> I could very well see Uber asking for new pictures after being reported to them. But I also bet they would waive the 10 dollar a week phone hit.


You may not "feel" it is their business, but per contract law, it is, and their lawyers always win


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Again, if you hit someone while you are out for commercial purposes, and your insurance company specifically states you cannot use it for commercial purposes, and you claim that you were not, that is fraud.


Jesus. You really are stupid, aren't you? What part of "Uber provides you with commercial insurance while engaged in commercial activity" do you not understand? You know what, don't bother answering. You can't fix stupid, and you're beyond fixing.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

We'll cross that bridege when the time comes...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Jesus. You really are stupid, aren't you? What part of "Uber provides you with commercial insurance while engaged in commercial activity" do you not understand? You know what, don't bother answering. You can't fix stupid, and you're beyond fixing.


No they only cover to the point of dropping pax. An accident in front of drop off IS NOT covered under first tier. I'm intimately familiar with the primary coverage as well as most major primary insurers policy. You will be considered in commercial vehicle the entire time your app is on, Uber/Lyft JRiver policy during no-pax mode is CONTINGENCY secondary. So who is stupid? Me? Or a driver who does not understand primary versus secondary? How many providers or regulators have YOU been in meetings with? Me? At least 20 in the last 2 years.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Jesus. You really are stupid, aren't you? What part of "Uber provides you with commercial insurance while engaged in commercial activity" do you not understand? You know what, don't bother answering. You can't fix stupid, and you're beyond fixing.


It will only be a matter of time before some poor drivers driving drunks home in the midst of other drunk drivers gets in an accident and people are killed. Then we'll see 'who' Uber covers and what happens to the driver(s).

My bank is that the driver(s) will be screwed to the wall for not having valid personal insurance, and therefore driving fraudulently. The drivers will get slammolaed.

Uber will be covered and the pax will probably be wealthy if they live through it. *And the personal insurance WILL be dragged into the matters and will officially drop every ride share driver by specific policy statements, which are already there in any case. Just not 'specific' to rideshare.*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> We'll cross that bridege when the time comes...


Yeah, playing financial Russian roulette is great for one's life.

zzz on


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> AND I might add it will be somewhat important to make such searches anonymous initially because the 'insurance companies' have a big computer net to 'report' any such drivers into their systems IF they can do so.
> 
> *So even my 'search' will be undisclosed to the freakin' vultures*, initially, until "I" am satisfied with 'answers.'


I recommend CyberGhost for your VPN and use the Tor Browser,
LINK --> CyberGhost VPN with/without TOR


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> I recommend CyberGhost for your VPN and use the Tor Browser,
> LINK --> CyberGhost VPN with/without TOR


I think a number blocked phone or a phone not mine call or 2 should suffice for initial investigations. I think my state ins. regs may be a little more liberal on this particular matter. I'm not going to disclose where I'm at for various reasons, one of them being speaking frankly.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> It will only be a matter of time before some poor drivers driving drunks home in the midst of other drunk drivers gets in an accident and people are killed. Then we'll see 'who' Uber covers and what happens to the driver(s).
> 
> My bank is that the driver(s) will be screwed to the wall for not having valid personal insurance, and therefore driving fraudulently. The drivers will get slammolaed.
> 
> Uber will be covered and the pax will probably be wealthy if they live through it. *And the personal insurance WILL be dragged into the matters and will officially drop every ride share driver by specific policy statements, which are already there in any case. Just not 'specific' to rideshare.*


Many have amended applications to be specific, although legally their "no commercial use" is already specific enough. Major airports require certificates of primary on file, and anyone hanging around on the grounds at AUS waiting in cell lot for pings are on contingency plan which is not adequate. Same applies after drop off. Several large venues have the same requirement, to ensure they are not on the hook for any damages which occur on their property. The larger the facility, the more lawyers on retainer making damned sure their client is not liable. There are plans available, and more plans will be created. The same happened for the food delivery business. Customized plans were designed for pizzerias, for example. But until a driver has such a plan, they are nuts to take such a high risk for a job which does not pay enough to make up the difference. There is a significant reason why these two companies have not opted to have a full coverage plan for the second tier. They must maintain their "not responsible" status, not only for accidents, but for criminal complaints. At the end of the day, they maintain that they are a "technology platform" and all of their drivers are independent contractors who are responsible for their own expertise, liability, behavior, etc. they only added the full blown commercial for in car travel because there was no way they could operate in California without it.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Many have amended applications to be specific, although legally their "no commercial use" is already specific enough. Major airports require certificates of primary on file, and anyone hanging around on the grounds at AUS waiting in cell lot for pings are on contingency plan which is not adequate. Same applies after drop off. Several large venues have the same requirement, to ensure they are not on the hook for any damages which occur on their property. The larger the facility, the more lawyers on retainer making damned sure their client is not liable. There are plans available, and more plans will be created. The same happened for the food delivery business. *Customized plans were designed for pizzerias, for example. But until a driver has such a plan, they are nuts to take such a high risk for a job which does not pay enough to make up the difference. *There is a significant reason why these two companies have not opted to have a full coverage plan for the second tier. They must maintain their "not responsible" status, not only for accidents, but for criminal complaints. At the end of the day, they maintain that they are a "technology platform" and all of their drivers are independent contractors who are responsible for their own expertise, liability, behavior, etc. they only added the full blown commercial for in car travel because there was no way they could operate in California without it.


I think your assessment is very accurate. There are some minor loopholes that I believe 'might' dodge a minor bullet or 2 in a small incident where no one is injured.

With injuries of any kind however, it's hang on to your ass time for all Uber drivers from what I can see, particularly full time drivers who write off ALL their mileage.

*As far as Uber being secondary, technically speaking there is no primary personal coverage for any Uber driver that is legit from what I can tell* and THAT is the part that is making me rethink my participation. And that only because I drive XL and the rates are better i.e. it will pay to have commercial coverage on my own. If I were an X driver I would just stop because the piss poor pay does not justify having commercial insurance *until the insurance companies come out with new product geared for this setup.*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

I'd also add that with the amount of close calls I've encountered it's just a matter of time before "I" am involved in a crackup. It's a busy city with a lot of heavy traffic and close quarters all the time. Numerous close calls that were of course 'not my fault' but nevertheless once you get stuck in the gears life can be a ***** for long time and I'm just not interested in getting waylaid at ALL for ANY reason or ANYbody.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> What's total BS is this post. It's 100% pure FUD being spread by the haters of Uber. There are hundreds of thousands of people claiming miles on their taxes that neither have, or need commercial insurance. Every executive that drive his nice high end personal car to a meeting , every sales rep going to a customer's location, to even a union buddy of mine that gets paid extra per his contract if he has to work at a distant location, can deduct those miles. In fact, if you work two jobs, you can deduct the miles you drive from job one to job two. So stop with the pure BS on what the IRS will be doing.


But is there a different classification of vehicles used fir "hire & reward"?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I think your assessment is very accurate. There are some minor loopholes that I believe 'might' dodge a minor bullet or 2 in a small incident where no one is injured.
> 
> With injuries of any kind however, it's hang on to your ass time for all Uber drivers from what I can see, particularly full time drivers who write off ALL their mileage.
> 
> *As far as Uber being secondary, technically speaking there is no primary personal coverage for any Uber driver that is legit from what I can tell* and THAT is the part that is making me rethink my participation. And that only because I drive XL and the rates are better i.e. it will pay to have commercial coverage on my own. If I were an X driver I would just stop because the piss poor pay does not justify having commercial insurance *until the insurance companies come out with new product geared for this setup.*


There are a few, from my understanding, but they are hybrid and expensive. One I heard has a " one accident and we drop you" clause. Still better than nothing, though.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Wow.
> 
> You US UberX drivers are really not the full shilling.
> 
> ...


Hi UberLux!

So which market and what model does Uber use to make Uberx - privately licensed cars with private motorists legal?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> There are a few, from my understanding, but they are hybrid and expensive. *One I heard has a " one accident and we drop you" clause.* Still better than nothing, though.


True enough. Most insurance companies are like this anyway or they surcharge the hell out of you for accidents that don't have personal injuries involved and not too high of damages. Otherwise they just kick you out and you are forced into specialty insurance with MUCH higher rates. And this is not even in the commercial arena. This is what makes the 'ride share' problem *a BIG PROBLEM for us drivers. We are unquestionably 'commercial drivers.'

And personal insurance does not, repeat, DOES NOT cover commercial uses of vehicles for this particular application, PUBLIC TRANSPORT. And no, it does not 'kick in and out of effect' according to whether one is 'on duty' or 'driving customers' or not.*

And yes, your personal insurance company WILL be dragged to the legal table in any incident. If I was an attorney that would be the first dog I'd hunt. "you ubering?" Simple enuf question isn't it?

Commercial public transport use of a vehicle, even on a part time basis, disqualifies that drivers personal insurance as far as I can see from the policies themselves. There probably isn't 1 driver in thousands who even bother to read their fine print or even give a damn, let alone research this stuff and get a legal official opinion or an insurance company statement that sez 'it's good' *because UBER suckers them into thinking it's ALL OK. *

UBER seems to be promoting just one big FIB on these matters or at least I've not seen 'fine print' presentations to show the legitimacy of this shaky setup. *I'm only surprised that the public officials are letting this B.S. slip by them!* It's probably because there are so many damn unemployed people they are just turning their heads *so we don't tar and feather them.*

The way this country is when everyone is a victim you can bet that anyone in an Uber car accident is going to be injured in some way. I heard a case awhile back where a couple in their mid 80's got an insurance settlement even though there WERE NO PHYSICAL INJURIES for $80,000 for 'loss of cohabitation' which means the accident supposedly affected their SEX LIFE. Suuure it did.

We're so f'ed up in the U.S. on all this stuff it's unreal. It would be a shame to see anyone get taken down by this phony setup because these kinds of things will put a person out of commission for a good long while and no one can really afford that either, but when you're BROKE...

UBER ON. What do you drivers care about the personal implications of having phony primary coverage anway, huh?

lol. That's why we're Ubering on. We just too damn stupid to do otherwise.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> We'll cross that bridege when the time comes...


Yeah, I've heard people who can't afford to buy insurance and drive illegally say the same thing. They all get by with it for awhile, but when push comes to shove they won't be letting any of us cross no bridge.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I heard a case awhile back where a couple in their mid 80's got an insurance settlement even though there WERE NO PHYSICAL INJURIES for $80,000 for 'loss of cohabitation' which means the accident supposedly affected their SEX LIFE. Suuure it did.


At what age do you plan to stop having sex?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> At what age do you plan to stop having sex?


At what age do you figure out that our legal system is a bunch of lying manipulating bullshit at our expense.

Apparently never.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

For the Geico guy from an online article earlier this year:

"One question we posed in the past: Are ride-service drivers at risk of losing their insurance?

Last week on the Lyft Lounge, a Facebook meeting area for drivers, * one member posted a cancellation notice she received from Geico. The termination was for "commercial use of your 2012 Toyota Prius.*" The posting has sparked a long online discussion among Lyft drivers. Wrote one fellow Lyft driver in response:

"No one, I mean no one told me my insurance would have a problem with it. What's Lyft's response to the fact that serving for them may end up with us losing insurance and possibly our livelihood?"

Last year, journalist Josh Wolf, writing for the San Francisco Bay Guardian, reported on a similar cancellation of a Lyft driver's insurance.

Lyft has not gotten back to us with a response.
-
There is a real question as to whether ride-service drivers can obtain personal insurance if they tell insurance companies the true nature of their intended use of the vehicle. During my reporting last year, I contacted the American Automobile Association and Allstate to see if they'd insure me for the personal use of my car if I also wanted to use it for transporting paying passengers as a TNC. *Both said they wouldn't. 
"If they discover that your car's being used that way, then that's going to raise the red flag for any claim,"* an Allstate broker told me. "Tracking if accidents have occurred involving such vehicles is difficult, as the insurer will not always have the knowledge that the passenger paid for transport."

The recent experiences of two taxi drivers who wanted to switch to UberX also shows how hard it is for TNC drivers to get insurance coverage. Each uses Uber Taxi, a service that connects passengers with regular cabs. Each said they considered driving for UberX after learning Uber offers financing for that service's drivers to buy new vehicles. But each said their plans hit a roadblock when they found they couldn't get insurance for the new cars.

One of those drivers was John Han, who drives for Yellow Cab in San Francisco.

"I couldn't find anybody who would insure an UberX vehicle," he says. * "When I talked to my personal insurance company, I was trying to be very honest. I said I had just been approved for a car loan but wanted to work for UberX. They said they can't insure that."*

Han says he was referred to a company that provides limousine insurance, but the broker said she couldn't find anyone to cover an UberX vehicle.
*
"You can't really insure a car as both a personal vehicle and commercial at the same time," says Han, who has written about taxi issues for his own blog. "Someone might create that kind of package. But it doesn't exist now. The insurance industry is under no obligation to insure something just because the CPUC says it's OK."

"Many insurers don't know their customers are involved in these kinds of program," says Pete Moraga of the Insurance Information Network of California. "If these drivers aren't telling their insurers, there's no way for them to know."

Meanwhile, the California Department of Insurance has issued a warning to TNC drivers about possible gaps in insurance coverage.
*
*I sent Uber a number of questions about insurance, including one asking the company if it could name any personal insurers who were willing to insure a TNC vehicle. The company would not answer any of those questions on the record.*

Update Jan 22: Uber now tells us it did respond to Clark in a phone conversation. Clark, however, says that while an Uber rep did call him, he merely listened to Clark's concerns, saying he would get back to him with a response. But Clark never heard back with any answers.

Update 2: Kara Cross, general counsel for the Personal Insurance Federation of California, an industry group made up of State Farm, Farmers', Progressive, Allstate, Liberty Mutual, and Mercury, contacted us with some insurance implications for TNC passengers.

Cross says that if you are injured as a result of riding in a TNC vehicle, you can draw on the $1 million-per-incident coverage TNCs are required to have, but only if the TNC driver is judged to be at fault. If the other vehicle is judged to be at fault, you will have to rely on that driver's insurance, which will very likely cover a much lower amount than $1 million if it is a private vehicle" "

*Is the horses mouth good enuf info?*

*The real question IS: Why haven't the insurance companies and Uber/Lyft/other ride share companies SOLVED this equation and have left ALL of the drivers in a legally untenable situation?

Answer: THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF YOU ARE DRIVING ILLEGALLY NOR ARE THEY OBLIGATED TO TELL YOU 'HOW' TO OPERATE LEGALLY.*

It's all about the $$$ for them and it will come at the typical expense of the LITTLE GUY.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Uber and Lyft are involved in *enticing drivers with FALSE CLAIMS, that much is certain.*

They have hordes of attorneys. *There is no reason in the world they can claim they didn't know that drivers personal insurance would be INVALIDATED if the personal auto insurance companies KNOW that we are ride sharing.*


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

So there you have it...
Keep your mouth shut...
Keep your eyes on the road...
& Hang on until these lazy bastards get their shit together...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> So there you have it...
> Keep your mouth shut...
> Keep your eyes on the road...
> & Hang on until these lazy bastards get their shit together...


Being another hapless ignorant unprotected potential victim for anyone is not my way of approaching any business efforts. *In fact it's probably the stupidest thing one can do, to drive UNINSURED.*

There you have it? What kind of fools are we?


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

"You can't really insure a car as both a personal vehicle and commercial at the same time," says Han, who has written about taxi issues for his own blog. "Someone might create that kind of package.* But it doesn't exist now. *The insurance industry is under no obligation to insure something just because the CPUC says it's OK."
*
Doesn't exist, OK?*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

These various legal/licensing issues highlight just how desperate some of us are to make a buck and how utterly lying and manipulating these Wall Street ****s are. Pardon my french but I got sick of Wall Street criminals lying and stealing from the masses about 20 years ago.

Ride sharing is really a GREAT idea, *but there is no reason in the world that $30 billion dollar supposed (Uber/Lyft combined) worth companies can't figure out ways to do it LEGALLY and instead they LIE to us about these matters. * That is just utter bullshit.

*These guys really should be in prison*, not being paraded about in public as some supposed tech geniuses.

Where's a cop when you need them?


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Writing tickets in Hoboken?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> "You can't really insure a car as both a personal vehicle and commercial at the same time," says Han, who has written about taxi issues for his own blog. "Someone might create that kind of package.* But it doesn't exist now. *The insurance industry is under no obligation to insure something just because the CPUC says it's OK."
> *
> Doesn't exist, OK?*


Yeah.

*So your solution is to drive uninsured? What kind of idiocy is that?*

*The PUBLIC and the DRIVERS deserve to know our 'REAL' status and not some lying bullshit put out by these aholes?*

*Uber and Lyft know DAMN WELL that every last one of our personal insurance carriers would invalidate ALL of us if they knew what we are doing.

And that also means we are already invalidated by DEFAULT.*


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Take it easy...
When the right time comes, savvy lawyers will sue Uber and other big asses and become rich...
We small fishes will not be touched, because we don't have enough meat for their sharp teeth...

PS you keep saying I don't have insurance...
I do because Geico keeps taking my premium...
& don't ask any question...
That's not MY fault...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Being another hapless ignorant unprotected potential victim for anyone is not my way of approaching any business efforts. *In fact it's probably the stupidest thing one can do, to drive UNINSURED.*
> 
> There you have it? What kind of fools are we?


Yep, and a driver can easily read Uber's own blog to learn how screwed they are if THEY suffer damages or injuries, since the 1mill coverage is liability.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Take it easy...
> When the right time comes, savvy lawyers will sue Uber and other big asses and become rich...
> We small fishes will not be touched, because we don't have enough meat for their sharp teeth...
> 
> ...


You my friend are a typical dumbass chance taker.

This setup with Uber/Lyft is insane RISK on the drivers part. *We shouldn't even be on the road.*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Yep, and a driver can easily read Uber's own blog to learn how screwed they are if THEY suffer damages or injuries, since the 1mill coverage is liability.


This illegal setup which is easily glaringly obvious to an admitted dumbass like me *seems to have slipped by our entire U.S. legal system.*

That is how f'ed up this whole thing really is and just another picture of governmental and large corporate *BLATANT IRRESPONSIBILITY. *


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

It is STATE LAW in my state that anyone driving a vehicle on the road *must have legal insurance.*

*How unconscionable is it for these ride sharing companies to turn loose countless thousands of illegal drivers???!!!*


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Life's a Journey...
Enjoy the Ride...


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hi UberLux!
> 
> So which market and what model does Uber use to make Uberx - privately licensed cars with private motorists legal?


In the UK and Dublin UberX are not private motorists.

You can not use a car for work unless it is inspected by the local authority.

In London this is Tfl and we have an annual inspection with them and two MOTs which is a road worthyness check.

All drivers must have an up to date CRB check and medical.

The CRB is repeated every 3yrs when you renew your PH Licence.

Anybody using a private car for hire and reward is an illegal tout.

In London when they catch them the car is usually confiscated and if POB when caught they will be knicked for no insurance. And get 6points on their licence.

I personally joined Uber when they only had UberBlack in the US.

The London Black Cab trade retweet the antics of the US based UberX drivers all the time.

In essence the gift that keeps on giving.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Just to add.

In the UK our Full Comp H&R Ins covers us for social domestic and pleasure use.

You can even get your Spouse on the Policy for SD&P.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Just to add.
> 
> In the UK our Full Comp H&R Ins covers us for social domestic and pleasure use.
> 
> You can even get your Spouse on the Policy for SD&P.


I'd have to say it's intentional leaving drivers exposed here in the U.S. If your old political/legal system has managed that why in the HELL can't the U.S. get the picture and make this available to UberX/XL/Plus drivers here???!!!

There are many reasons, but a big part of it is to feed our vultures in the legal/insurance/prison system at the expense of the masses.

It's our way of life here.

*Expose jugular and bend over. Our middle class is being gutted, openly.*


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> You my friend are a typical dumbass chance taker.
> 
> This setup with Uber/Lyft is insane RISK on the drivers part. *We shouldn't even be on the road.*


"I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of little Uber people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that."


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> "I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that."


If you think it's cocky or smart to drive without insurance I'd just say you belong in prison and that is probably where you'll wind up. Making shit for less than the chinese slaves for the CCA and being a boy toy for big bubba.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

To "where's the beef" and others believing that "what they don't know can't hurt me" applies to insurance policies, here is a quote from the General Provisions, Misrepresentation or Fraud section of my auto policy. (I'd wager that Geico, Allstate, Farmers, and all the rest have something similar.)
"This entire policy shall be void from its inception if any person insured has *misrepresented or omitted any fact or circumstance which was material to our issuance or renewal of this policy. Any statements in the application *or in any documents provided to us by any insured in connection with the issuance or renewal of the policy shall be deemed material to the acceptance of the risk assumed by us under this policy, and this policy is issued in reliance upon the* truth of such representations*.
If any person insured intentionally makes a false statement or conceals or misrepresents a material fact or circumstance that relates to an accident, occurrence or loss, or to our investigation thereof, we may elect not to provide coverage for that accident, occurrence or loss. We may also elect to cancel or nonrenew the entire police as permitted by law".
Further, in the Statements in the Application for Insurance section,* the insured further agrees to notify the insurer promptly "of any change to the facts affecting this insurance, including, but not limited to":any change in..... "vehicle use".*
So, in addition to clearly stating elsewhere in the policy that carrying persons for a charge is specifically excluded from coverage in all lines of insurance, the parts quoted above lay it back at the feet of the insured to be completely honest and forthright in dealing with the insurer, or risk having no coverage for any accident and having the policy cancelled. And once you have been cancelled, it is harder to get new coverage at reasonable rates, because that's one of the questions you have to answer on the application for a new policy. BTW, it specifically says that carpools in which passengers share expenses are OK, so that isn't a loophole in the case of Uber or Lyft.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Wow the FUD is getting way too deep in here. Repeat after me, we're all going to DIE!!!!!!!!!!! Everybody Panic!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Wow the FUD is getting way too deep in here. Repeat after me, we're all going to DIE!!!!!!!!!!! Everybody Panic!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're irresponsible and uninsured.

No big deal, right?

Uninsured drivers appear to be very low on the scale of intelligence. And that's probably why the Uber payscale is where it should be.


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## cyb3rpunk (Oct 6, 2014)

Not sure if this has been posted already, lazy to read all pages, but i know that:

-You don't need to notify uber you are going to be off for a month, but if you are really worried about it, at some point(like after 2 weeks), just go online for a couple minutes and then go offline again, that should do it.

-If you were off-duty better not notify Uber.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

I'll keep on truckin'...
No worry in the world...

Some days I don't know if I'll make it by
Price of diesel's gettin' mighty high
I live on caffeine and borrowed time
Stretchin' a nickel into a dime
The G man, the T man, the highway cop
Try to slow me down but they can't make me stop
I, I keep on truckin'
(Keep on truckin')
Yeah, I keep on truckin'
(Keep on truckin')
These 18 wheels ain't stoppin' for nothin'
When the goin' gets tough I just k-k-keep on truckin'
Stopped Friday night down in Louisiane
Groovin' to the tunes of the roadhouse band
Raisin' the roof off that little bar
Sweatin' out a tune for a tip in a jar
More power to ya, if ya do what ya love
Keep pushin' back when push comes to shove
Keep on truckin'
(Keep on truckin')
Yeah, I keep on truckin'
(Keep on truckin')
Hey man, don't show down and don't stop for nothin'
When the goin' gets tough, you just k-k-keep on truckin'
I try to keep my life on the center line
The devil's always messin' with my mind
He pulls me to the left, he pulls me to the right
We end up in the ditch in a helluva fight
Well, sometimes I lose, baby, sometimes I win
I'll always end up on a highway again


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

You will have plenty of time for creative writing in prison.

After all breaking one law or two laws whats the difference?

A multi billion dollar valuation amd in the US, its biggest market, its all based on getting your "partners" to break the law all the time.

Uber was stupid to get involved in this rideshare debacle.

There is something rotten at the core of Corporate America.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Are Real Estate agents driving around clients covered by their insurance?


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

These people never drive clients around...
Only "friends"...


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Realtors aren't driving for hire. Insurers typically charge a premium based on their exposure, whether for personal or business coverage. Lots of businesses provide transportation to customers, such as real estate agents, car dealers, auto repair shops, tire stores, funeral homes, etc. Sales people might take someone to lunch or otherwise offer a ride to a client. But as long as they are not charging a direct fee to the passenger, none of these are engaged in the business of driving for hire, which is the sticking point in working as a contractor for rideshare companies.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> You will have plenty of time for creative writing in prison.
> 
> After all breaking one law or two laws whats the difference?
> 
> ...


I suspect that when a sufficient number of drivers have their lives ruined by the attorney/insurance vultures the state legislatures will get their heads out of their asses. They actually should do it pretty quickly because there may be 100 million unemployed U.S. citizens doing Ubering in the very near future.

The legal/insurance waters have already been sufficiently muddied for the attorneys to clean up, which is really why all this stuff remains hanging. *They just need the victims now* to go after the various insurance companies. Should be fun popcorn time if you're not one of the victims.


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## LVN8V_BC43 (Jun 3, 2016)

scrurbscrud said:


> That's bullshit advice. Sorry. If you are an undisclosed commercial driver being insured by your personal insurance you are in deep deep shit in any case. Your personal insurance could be pulled and not pay for any accident if they felt like it.
> *
> In most cases full time drivers are writing off every MILE on their vehicle which means there IS NO PERSONAL USE involved!*


So then that's Tax Fraud.


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## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

All I can tell you is that I took almost all of September off for personal reasons and Uber never noticed, as far as I can tell. They certainly not scanning local news stories or insurance company reports to compare the names with their contractor lists. And I don't see anything in the OS that requires you to report any traffic incidents NOT related to Uber.


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## GrinsNgiggles (Oct 11, 2016)

LVN8V_BC43 said:


> So then that's Tax Fraud.


2 years later...


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