# Insurance concerns



## Macca (Nov 6, 2014)

Hi all,

I've been driving UberX for a few weeks now and absolutey love it, however there is this one issue that's been bugging me.

I know there is insurance coverage for the passengers and third party property with the 5 million liability insurance as noted in the blog posts, but I want to clarify what occurs to me and my car if I'm in a collision.

My current 'normal' insurance doesn't cover me when I use the car 'to obtain fares as a taxicab or similar'. By my reading then they won't cover me, or my car in a collision. Is the only way around this to get commercial vehicle insurance? (I'm only driving part time for a bit of extra cash so wouldn't make financial sense)

As I said, I love driving for Uber but am currently concerned that I could be exposing myself to significant financial risk (car not covered, or even me if I have injuries) if I'm involved in a collision.

Thanks all​


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## Trang (Nov 3, 2014)

I want to know how they will know if you are driving commercially? and the above too..


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Macca said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been driving UberX for a few weeks now and absolutey love it, however there is this one issue that's been bugging me.
> 
> ...


Your injuries are not covered, nor are the damages to your vehicle, as the pax-in-car coverage is LIABILITY only. As for collision and comprehensive, it is *contingent* on insurance which, in most cases is NULL because of livery exclusions in most personal policies.

You are smart to question this, and approach with caution. Talk to your insurance company and ask for answers specific to your questions, do the same with Uber. Ask very specific questions, and do not settle for anything less than specific answers.

According to them: 

$50,000 of contingent comprehensive and collision insurance.* If a ridesharing driver holds personal comprehensive and collision insurance this policy covers physical damage to that vehicle that occurs during a trip, for any reason, up to $50,000 and with a $1,000 deductible.


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## Macca (Nov 6, 2014)

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I assume your talking about the situation in the US - I can't find anything similar mentioned here in Australia.

The fact that my questions to my local Uber coordinators are going unanswered, and that the information is difficult to find make me worried!


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Macca said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I assume your talking about the situation in the US - I can't find anything similar mentioned here in Australia.
> 
> The fact that my questions to my local Uber coordinators are going unanswered, and that the information is difficult to find make me worried!


Maybe Sidney Uber will chime in!
I think it is a similar situation, I know that another driver in this forum told me she or he had joined a group of other drivers to purchase a commercial insurance for this very reason.

I think the fact they will rarely supply concise answers in writing is a good indicator that you may be less than well covered.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Your vehicle is not covered for collision by Uber nor will your current insurer. Admittedly they won't easily know if you were carry passengers for consideration but if someone is injured or it comes to light later, it's basically insurance fraud as a criminal charge. 

Liability towards the passenger or other property is covered however no finer details on this are listed which is concerning to say the least! 

Driving for UberX, you assume the risk of collision just hope your not at fault otherwise you'll be left financially ruined. This is something many UberX drivers in Australia have failed to consider, always read the fine print. SAVE A COPY! And read again. There slick sales orientated terms and speak during sign up would easily guide unwitting and eager partners to assume the best, unfortunately that's not the case.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

If your paying off your late model vehicle that you use for Uber and it's financially encumbered I would highly recommend not driving.

If you own your car outright and are 100% confident that you won't cause any damage even accidental and knowingly assume the risk then by all means drive carefully.​


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Hey we are with oamps, in australia give them a call, we get like 5million public liability for $560 per year. Any dramas private message me and I can get you a better deal


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Keep in mind, if you get commercial insurance, it's technically void as UberX is outside of current legislation. Save your pennys at this stage


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

I dont think so, we have commercial insurance and $5 million public liability. Call OAMPS. See what they say. Like I said the policy is about $560 per year, but we can get it cheaper....private message me....we are getting a good deal


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Angela Brisbane said:


> I wrote to the QLD Dept Transport and being a private driver using a private vehicle is illegal. You need a taxi licence in QLD (over $500,000) as well as an authorised taxi vehicle. So a driver's authorisation is not sufficient. Your private motor vehicle insurance is invalid as well. The UberX driver bears all the risks. The Dept Transport told me that they issued a cease and desist letter to Uber, in May. It's now October and Uber seem to be thriving in Brisbane. Dept Transport said they are "monitoring the situation". It seems as though the government is unwilling to test this in the courts. Spineless they may be, but they are more than willing to fine the Uber driver if found without a taxi licence. As to whether it's wise to be a Uber driver in Brisbane, or anywhere else for that matter. I'd say the risk isn't worth it. If you have an accident and your passenger is seriously injured or worse you will be up for some serious costs. Claiming ignorance won't protect you as you're an adult and it's up to you to determine the legality of your work. Anyone can contact the Dept of Transport in their state. It's not the Dept Transport fine I'd be most worried about, but the risk of a very expensive court case trying to defend myself in the case of an accident or worse. As to Uber's commercial motor vehicle insurance that "covers" drivers: I'd want to see this verified in writing, where the insurance company name is disclosed, and that Uber will pay for any potential insurance claim on your behalf. If it's not in writing, you're on your own.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

suewho said:


> I dont think so, we have commercial insurance and $5 million public liability. Call OAMPS. See what they say. Like I said the policy is about $560 per year, but we can get it cheaper....private message me....we are getting a good deal


 Interesting, but I would assume it's more black and white. Any insurance is void if found to be operating outside of law or legislation.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

I would want to make sure that everything is stitched up. Pretty easy really in our land. We are lucky


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Yes of course you tell them you are doing ride for hire or whatever, then they give you a commercial policy... all good


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

If it's found out your not authorized to provide rides for hire then technically operating without a license which would be outside of current legislation rendering your policy void. 

It's like, obtaining liability insurance for your customers and operating dive tours but your not a qualified or trained scuba diver.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Hmmm well, murky water indeed


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Are there any uber black in queensland?


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Definitely grey and murky. Not being argumentative but drivers for need to be more vigilant and careful with what there actually willing to risk. Only when reward out ways risk is it truly worth it.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Uber black not active in Queensland however been accepting black car applications for some time. I'd assume there'd be a few drivers on the books already just waiting. There using Black drivers for promo work and heineken tours


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

God yes.. call it like you see it


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Uber is not interested in black, esp not here in sth australia. They subsidies us yes, but thats only till they bring in uberx. Thats the real money maker for uber. Cheap fares.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Uber not interested in black, costs us too much to start our v8 caprices. Yeah they subsidised us for a while, but they're really interested in uberx.
more fees, more cheap ass rides, more commission


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Macca said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I assume your talking about the situation in the US - I can't find anything similar mentioned here in Australia.
> 
> The fact that my questions to my local Uber coordinators are going unanswered, and that the information is difficult to find make me worried!


Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge "Macca" only one letter different to "Mecca", but a world away from its meaning. Sorry to indulge here Macca - but I feel our mainly American friends on this forum really need to understand the fundamental depth of your Australian persona that is telegraphed loud and clear with a name like Macca! No friends, McDonalds did NOT come first - Macca did!

Now onto insurance - one Aussie to another, it doesn't matter if you're a Banana Bender or a Seppo, UBER opens for business and grows in each city with huge risk back on the shoulders of the driver. From what I've read in our Partner's Agreement and the fact that UBER doesnt provide you with a copy of whatever Insurance it claims it has to cover you, it pretty much stinks. My guess, and in some ways I could be countered because UBER says you are covered, but I'm saying YOU personally will be totally rooted if hurt whilst UBERING.

Your local UBER boss up there Mike Abbott is a slippery little sucker. He MUST be related to the Prime Minister Tony Abbott because he has mastered the art of never answering a question. But keep hammering him with specific questions - his mobile is 0458 558736 - he'll be REAL upset I gave that to you - so don't shop me!

There is no need for UBER to put their X drivers at risk - in some jurisdictions like London & New York the legislators have quickly looked past the shonky rort of calling the service "Rideshare" when in fact it is a taxi service. That is what you need to ask your Insurance company, what do THEY classify UBER activities as? And there is no point in witholding info from them, because Insurance Companies around the world are issued with licenses to offer cover in various markets on the proviso that they are protected from insurance fraud by Laws that are written in favour of Insurance companies.

I strongly suggest finding a spare 3-4 hours and read your partners agreement 2-3 times and your insurance PDS over and over again - I may be a little slow on the uptake - because it took me 4 goes at the Partners agreement with the help of legal help to convince me I could lose my house and all I own in the event of an accident in a UBERX car. So I stuck to licensed Hire Cars with the requisite insurance.

The current Libs in QLD Government fell for the lobbying that an ex-Lib Politician did on UBER's behalf and rolled over and allowed UBERX to start up with this Insurance mess.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Pretty much says it all,


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge "Macca" only one letter different to "Mecca", but a world away from its meaning. Sorry to indulge here Macca - but I feel our mainly American friends on this forum really need to understand the fundamental depth of your Australian persona that is telegraphed loud and clear with a name like Macca! No friends, McDonalds did NOT come first - Macca did!
> 
> Now onto insurance - one Aussie to another, it doesn't matter if you're a Banana Bender or a Seppo, UBER opens for business and grows in each city with huge risk back on the shoulders of the driver. From what I've read in our Partner's Agreement and the fact that UBER doesnt provide you with a copy of whatever Insurance it claims it has to cover you, it pretty much stinks. My guess, and in some ways I could be countered because UBER says you are covered, but I'm saying YOU personally will be totally rooted if hurt whilst UBERING.
> 
> ...


Well said Syd. Oh looks like their are issues here


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Love you sydney uber


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

suewho said:


> Love you sydney uber


 AW SHUCKS! I WUV YOU TOO!


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

suewho said:


> Hey we are with oamps, in australia give them a call, we get like 5million public liability for $560 per year. Any dramas private message me and I can get you a better deal


Ahh YOU are the one that got a group rate, right? I could not remember who said that.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Instyle said:


> If it's found out your not authorized to provide rides for hire then technically operating without a license which would be outside of current legislation rendering your policy void.
> 
> It's like, obtaining liability insurance for your customers and operating dive tours but your not a qualified or trained scuba diver.


Here, our commercial insurance doesn't care about local ordinances, but do care about your business and driving background


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## StephenJBlue (Sep 23, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Here, our commercial insurance doesn't care about local ordinances, but do care about your business and driving background


I'm still looking at finding proper insurance for driving Uber/lyft. Having problems. Spoke with USAA who sent me to the Hartford. Would have to go full on Commercial since they have nothing setup for personal/commercial split driving.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

StrawJim said:


> I'm still looking at finding proper insurance for driving Uber/lyft. Having problems. Spoke with USAA who sent me to the Hartford. Would have to go full on Commercial since they have nothing setup for personal/commercial split driving.


I can see why. If I was responsible for P&L for an insurance company, I would not offer mixed use, too easy to claim personal use, while risk is increased exponentially as commercial. The cost of not catching it is high, and the cost of verifying is probably just as high. I would only offer "all or none". Some get bent out of shape about this, but really...how is that different from any other service? Few companies will sell an open ended service for a fixed price.


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## Macca (Nov 6, 2014)

Hi again all,

Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.

As much as I have enjoyed the experience of driving, as it's only a weekend gig for me to earn a little cash - it's appears its just not worth the risk.

I'll miss meeting people, being part of a disruptive technology, and that little adrenalin rush when the phone starts beeping!

The risk is out if my control (GC drivers!) and it doesn't make sense to risk a 14k car for a $30 fare. And that's just the money - let alone risking my health and existing career / future earnings if injured in a crash.

I know it's unlikely, but the risk is too high for me personally.

However if Uber Black ever comes to the Gold Coast and anyone's looking to rent their fully commercial insured vehicle out to


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Then there's the tax implications of a second or additional income. Ato will eventually want details of what Uber has paid everyone.


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## Angela Brisbane (Oct 25, 2014)

Being a ride share driver without a taxi licence is illegal in Queensland, and I imagine the rest of Australia.

No, your insurance won't cover you, as you are insured as a private driver.

A taxi licence starts at around $500,000 in Queensland.

Insurance is more of an issue than getting a fine. If a UberX passenger is seriously injured or worse you will be in for a very expensive court battle. As you knowingly operated without a valid commercial licence I don't see how you could defend your case. Ignorance is no excuse. Uber gives the wrong information on their website but you're adults and it's up to you to determine the legality.

I emailed Dept Transport in Queensland and this is their reply. The only editing I did was take out private names.

I'm disgusted with the weakness of the government's response on this. All the risk falls on the driver. In my mind, Uber are culpable in aiding and abetting a crime but the government won't act to ban Uber. They probably don't want a lengthy court battle with Uber who seem to be arguing they don't actually operate a taxi service. It's the UberX driver who is very vulnerable and will pay dearly if anything goes wrong.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

In response to your enquiry about employment as a driver offering transport services utilising a smart phone application, I can provide the following information. The Department of Transport and Main Roads requires persons providing public passenger transport services to meet certain licensing and accreditation requirements. The purpose of these requirements is to ensure the public has access to safe and responsive public transport, and that operators are accountable for performance standards that enhance the reputation of public passenger services.

Section 70 of the Transport Operations (Passenger Transport) Act 1994 (the “Act”) requires a person providing on-demand public passenger services to do so in a motor vehicle attached to a taxi service licence. Additionally, section 27 of the Act requires drivers of public passenger vehicles to be hold driver authorisation for taxi services (General Driver Authorisation is insufficient). Non-compliance with these requirements may result in enforcement action and fines. 

In addition it is also an offence under the Motor Accident Insurance Act 1994 to knowingly have the incorrect class of Compulsory Third Party (CTP) insurance on your vehicle. Using your vehicle to provide on-demand passenger transport services requires Class 3 CTP insurance, which can only be obtained for a licences taxi vehicle. Providing on-demand transport services without Class 3 CTP insurance may also result in the issue of a penalty infringement notice.

On the basis of the above information, it is illegal in Queensland to provide on-demand transport services through a smart phone application unless you are doing so in a licensed taxi vehicle, and are the holder of a driver authorisation for taxi services. 

I have checked with Mr xxxx, Director (Passenger Transport Standards and Taxis), TransLink Division, from the Department of Transport and Main Roads, and he has told me that drivers providing services under a share ride app, who only possess a General category Driver Authorisation (DA) are providing a demand responsive public passenger service without the correct DA for that type of service. The taxi category of driver authorisation requires additional training, including English assessments, and other service delivery competencies particularly relevant to demand-responsive style of services. These competencies are not a requirement of a General category of DA, hence the Department’s determination that the ‘General’ category is not sufficient for demand responsive services.

A Taxi DA will enable drivers to supply this service, however please note that drivers must also provide these services in a licenced taxi vehicle in order to avoid Infringements. 

The Department of Transport and Main Roads has issued uber a ‘Cease and Desist’ notice and continue to monitor the situation regarding the supply of unauthorised demand responsive public passenger services.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Angela Brisbane said:


> Being a ride share driver without a taxi licence is illegal in Queensland, and I imagine the rest of Australia.
> 
> No, your insurance won't cover you, as you are insured as a private driver.
> 
> ...


Thanks Angela, that information says it all, so how many x drivers are in Brisbane?


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

1000 active Brisbane drivers haven't heard any numbers from GC but safe to assume it's rising with thoughts to expand operations to Sunny coast

Come on governments check the hand thats feeding this nonsense the drivers aren't fully to blame whether through slick words or desperation. I'm not saying ban it but keep a leash on it. It's unlawful to the drivers to be tricked into operating and risking themselves so largely.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Governments struggle to control uberx which is why uber use this strategy. Once its there you cant control it so you have to make changes to accomodate it.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Correct, but they need to make changes fast before it's too well established so they are not seen as objective but in fact looking to accommodate under certain agreed terms

I know some riders like using Uber solely on the purpose its controversial.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

You might like this,

http://mashable.com/2014/11/06/crack-down-on-uberx/


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

And this one was interesting

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...rt-service-start/story-fni6uo1m-1227115307055

Word has it that uber did not have enough partners to service their clients at the launch. Possibly had to book cars from operators due due govt regulations and pressure


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

I think it's gone past the stage of shutting down the X side of operations without backlash from the public. Of course people love the cheaper fairs for often limousine like services I.e refreshments at the drivers cost. I think a forum or offer of guidelines need to be introduced to protect the drivers who in most cases have become dependant on the income based on trick words misguided fortune estimates


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Macca said:


> Hi again all,
> 
> Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.
> 
> ...


Hey Macca! You touch on an area that I felt UBERX would be great for. And that was providing limo and taxi operators with a new pool of fresh drivers.

Driving good folk around is surprisingly fun to do when being paid fairly for your time and effort. Driving cabs or limousines where tipping of drivers is encouraged by the business owners is also a great positive. Uber's "No Tipping" policy has caused them more problems than it was supposed to avoid.

Macca, if you did enjoy your time behind the wheel, look into getting a limousine driver's authority and talk with some operators about some shifts. You'll make the same sort of money as Uberx once you get the hang of it, without wearing out your car and taking on so much risk.

Limo operators are always looking for good casuals.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm not game enough to mention the U word at my company. When doing the old traditional bookings I do like the fact I can drive without the stress of a misjudged pax rating


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Instyle said:


> I'm not game enough to mention the U word at my company. When doing the old traditional bookings I do like the fact I can drive without the stress of a misjudged pax rating


Do you work for Steve and Sue up ib Brissy?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey Macca! You touch on an area that I felt UBERX would be great for. And that was providing limo and taxi operators with a new pool of fresh drivers.
> 
> Driving good folk around is surprisingly fun to do when being paid fairly for your time and effort. Driving cabs or limousines where tipping of drivers is encouraged by the business owners is also a great positive. Uber's "No Tipping" policy has caused them more problems than it was supposed to avoid.
> 
> ...


EXCELLENT point! Most companies would love to have part-time employees who only want to drive for them during busy periods. Most operators are not huge companies, thus may only have full-time driving positions for a couple of drivers but they have a need for backups and swat teams during busy events, or vacation relief. It is preferable to have a pro at your fingertips during those times, rather then try to fill the position on the spot with a new hire.

We have certainly hired a couple of new Uberx drivers who wanted to drive but were concerned about the personal risks and illegality, but we would not hire those who intentionally violated rules, laws, or knowingly drove un/underinsured. We leave our cars with our drivers, and expect them to be professionals, thus rely on them to always make smart decisions. In other words, we don't do much micromanaging. I know from my observations in a couple of driver forums, there are some who I would be honored to bring on board, it is easy to tell how they care about customer service, responsibility, and reputation. There are some who I would blacklist across the city


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Hi SydneyUber. No not familiar with those names


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Instyle said:


> I'm not game enough to mention the U word at my company. When doing the old traditional bookings I do like the fact I can drive without the stress of a misjudged pax rating


You do both? We will not allow that, because here our drivers must have a chauffeur permit which is tied to our company. We will not let anyone put our company at risk with even the loosest association. We tell them, straight up when we hire them, we will help them find other gigs within our sponsorship, and will do everything in our power to keep them running all day or night during our peak seasons, but if they have any intentions of driving for these companies, they cannot do so as a chauffeur sponsored by our company.

A little different with uberblack, but that model is 100% tied to the company, and we will never sign on with them now.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> EXCELLENT point! Most companies would love to have part-time employees who only want to drive for them during busy periods. Most operators are not huge companies, thus may only have full-time driving positions for a couple of drivers but they have a need for backups and swat teams during busy events, or vacation relief. It is preferable to have a pro at your fingertips during those times, rather then try to fill the position on the spot with a new hire.
> 
> We have certainly hired a couple of new Uberx drivers who wanted to drive but were concerned about the personal risks and illegality, but we would not hire those who intentionally violated rules, laws, or knowingly drove un/underinsured. We leave our cars with our drivers, and expect them to be professionals, thus rely on them to always make smart decisions. In other words, we don't do much micromanaging. I know from my observations in a couple of driver forums, there are some who I would be honored to bring on board, it is easy to tell how they care about customer service, responsibility, and reputation. There are some who I would blacklist across the city


I have 5 cars, 3 kept fairly busy with full-time drivers, the other 2 shared among a team of 3-4 casuals that can be brought on for big days. Even the full-time drivers need days off. I have 1 driver who'd work 8 days a week if I let him. That's neither safe or healthy. So having a casual that I can call helps me get the most out of my car and keep my full time driver healthy


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Instyle said:


> Hi SydneyUber. No not familiar with those names


They operate Instyle Limos in Brisu


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

TxRides I have done a bit of uberX in my own vehicle but never in a company vehicle if that's what you meant?

SydneyUber I've just always liked the word Instyle hence the username


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Instyle said:


> TxRides I have done a bit of uberX in my own vehicle but never in a company vehicle if that's what you meant?
> 
> SydneyUber I've just always liked the word Instyle hence the username


Doesn't matter to us, even in their personal vehicle, we just cannot allow it. 
We are very cautious about EVER telling an employee what they can or cannot do on their own time, but since they are legally sponsored by us as a chauffeur, we do have hard rules about this.
If they want to drive passengers commercially, we must approve and sponsor this. We can, in theory share a sponsor with another permitted company, but most don't do that for obvious "loyalty" reasons, but we have a few affiliates we would "share" with. Uber/Lyft/Sidecar has refused to get permits for their chauffeur/drivers in Austin. This, along with their half baked insurance coverage and open disdain for even the simplest rules to allow centralized registration of driver/insurance is why we have a permanent line in the sand, too risky otherwise.


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## Angela Brisbane (Oct 25, 2014)

I agree with instyle. I'm angry that the government is so weak on this. They're quick to crack down on the easy target, the driver, but leave UberX alone. UberX are advising people wrongly on their website that a driver's authorisation makes it legal when it doesn't. I advised Dept Transport of this, and even included the link showing this, but their response was "we're monitoring the situation". This is disgusting. UberX drivers are probably desperate for a job, most of them. Heaven help them if their passenger gets injured or worse. They will lose whatever assets they have. I just don't understand how governments world-wide have let things go so far. The "cease and desist" notice is a joke if Uber just ignores it. How hard can it be to legislate against UberX?


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Angela Brisbane said:


> I agree with instyle. I'm angry that the government is so weak on this. They're quick to crack down on the easy target, the driver, but leave UberX alone. UberX are advising people wrongly on their website that a driver's authorisation makes it legal when it doesn't. I advised Dept Transport of this, and even included the link showing this, but their response was "we're monitoring the situation". This is disgusting. UberX drivers are probably desperate for a job, most of them. Heaven help them if their passenger gets injured or worse. They will lose whatever assets they have. I just don't understand how governments world-wide have let things go so far. The "cease and desist" notice is a joke if Uber just ignores it. How hard can it be to legislate against UberX?


Unfortunately it may be that the politicians are being supplied with a massive supply of koolaid and possibly political donations. There is probably only one federal senator in Australia that would look at this sitiuation sensibly. Perhaps we all should write to him and he will probably have a look i to it. We should also bring this to the attention of a particular journalist who has national exposure. If we can get some numbers in complaining about this these issues will get some exposure.


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