# does amazon subsidize guaranteed pay w tips?



## Caroline O'Donovan (Apr 3, 2015)

"Instacart's main competitors in the grocery delivery space are Shipt and Amazon Fresh. Like Instacart, those companies guarantee that 100% of the customer's tip goes to the worker. It's not clear whether those companies adjust their payout to workers based on the size of the customer's tip, but neither has been the subject of a campaign organized by workers in the way Instacart has. An Amazon spokesperson said via email that it guarantees its delivery contractors $18 an hour, but didn't respond to questions about whether customer tips subsidize that guaranteed rate. Shipt did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Postmates, a direct competitor with DoorDash, said in instances where a minimum base pay is in effect, it does not include customer tips in that figure, but instead adds them on top."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...artups-are-using-tips-to-fulfill-pay-promises

my email is [email protected]


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## Flex89 (Jun 12, 2016)

There is undeniable proof that Amazon uses tips to subsidize the pay.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

yes


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## kmatt (Apr 25, 2016)

Absolutely. They wont even give us a breakdown of our base pay and tips. They just give us one lump amount that "includes" tips.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

It's been happening for over a year.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/its-confirmed-amazon-takes-30-of-you-tips-here-is-how-we-know.233345/


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## kmatt (Apr 25, 2016)

Why don't you also ask Amazon why they capped drivers hours to 25 hours a week recently? They are treating us like employees and not independent contractors with that kind of behavior. It needs to stop.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Amazon Flex sucks, 75 bucks to deliver 50 packages in four hours. Did it as a last resort, highest block I got was 81 dollars, I've seen them go over 100, but even 100 for fours hours isn't worth it. Never do it at night again. Funny my first block was 4 hours and I only had 28 to deliver, that never happened again.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

https://uberpeople.net/threads/its-confirmed-amazon-takes-30-of-you-tips-here-is-how-we-know.233345/


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Personally, I think the way Postmates handles tips among other gigs is the best. Tips should always be at the end of providing a service and not beforehand. It's like in a restaurant. Why would I tip the server before I got my meal and drinks? Beforehand tips is more like a bribe instead of a tip.

All these gigs need to be more transparent with pay. Postmates have a good breakdown on pay as does GrubHub. As for Amazon, the only non-transparency with pay is with Prime Now. Logistics is straightforward.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Instacart folded pretty quickly.

https://www.recode.net/platform/amp...-economy-instacart-tip-theft-contract-workers
Now, we need Door Dash and Amazon to do the same.


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## Flex89 (Jun 12, 2016)

observer said:


> Instacart folded pretty quickly.
> 
> https://www.recode.net/platform/amp...-economy-instacart-tip-theft-contract-workers
> Now, we need Door Dash and Amazon to do the same.


That's what I'm hoping for given the press this issue has been getting.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

If these companies put a fraction of the effort into making the workers happy as they do trying to find way to take more without it looking like they are taking more it would pay off a 10 fold. 

that is about as shitty as can be, paying less because of tips.. mfers


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## Jefferson DDBY (Jul 27, 2018)

Caroline O'Donovan said:


> "Instacart's main competitors in the grocery delivery space are Shipt and Amazon Fresh. Like Instacart, those companies guarantee that 100% of the customer's tip goes to the worker. It's not clear whether those companies adjust their payout to workers based on the size of the customer's tip, but neither has been the subject of a campaign organized by workers in the way Instacart has. An Amazon spokesperson said via email that it guarantees its delivery contractors $18 an hour, but didn't respond to questions about whether customer tips subsidize that guaranteed rate. Shipt did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Postmates, a direct competitor with DoorDash, said in instances where a minimum base pay is in effect, it does not include customer tips in that figure, but instead adds them on top."
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...artups-are-using-tips-to-fulfill-pay-promises
> 
> my email is [email protected]


Yes. How do I know? A few of us got together and tested it. We placed orders to ourselves. These were restaurants orders. The reason is you can wait in a certain area or take a certain block to guarantee you get the order. (It's not possible to do that with Prime Now).

TL;DR Amazon was skimming 25-50% of our tips.


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

Win - Drivers earn a good wage for unskilled labor. Prime Now/Fresh/WF pay you based on how many deliveries you do and drivers make 20-30+/hr depending on region. Even after expenses it is still a decent wage for unskilled labor, if it wasn't the program would not be so competitive.

Win -Customers get stuff delivered to their door for 5 measly dollars.

Win - Amazon doesn't have to shell out a bunch of money in a business that has very low margins (groceries.)

*Stop making problems where there isn't a problem. *


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Bygosh said:


> Win - Drivers earn a good wage for unskilled labor. Prime Now/Fresh/WF pay you based on how many deliveries you do and drivers make 20-30+/hr depending on region. Even after expenses it is still a decent wage for unskilled labor, if it wasn't the program would not be so competitive.
> 
> Win -Customers get stuff delivered to their door for 5 measly dollars.
> 
> ...


Amazon Flex from my point of view isn't worth the money. 50 packages to deliver is not worth 72 dollars. You forgot:

Lose - You drive 200-400 miles to deliver 50 packages, half the houses don't have numbers on them, night delivery should be a minimum 200 per 4 hour block. Good luck though, if you happy doing it then drive on!


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## Flex89 (Jun 12, 2016)

Logistics routes are not relevant to the discussion. This is about tips being used to subsidize driver pay.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

I guess some people believe Amazon logistics should make them more money than working for UPS, FedEx and USPS.

You know someone is making things up when they say that a 4 hr block would require driving 200-400 miles. Driving from the warehouse even 200 miles without delivering anything @ 65 mph takes 3+ hours.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Looks like Amazon stealing tips is making the news.

Los Angeles Times: Where does a tip to an Amazon driver go? In some cases, toward the driver's base pay.
https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-amazon-drivers-tips-20190207-story.html


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Caroline O'Donovan said:


> "Instacart's main competitors in the grocery delivery space are Shipt and Amazon Fresh. Like Instacart, those companies guarantee that 100% of the customer's tip goes to the worker. It's not clear whether those companies adjust their payout to workers based on the size of the customer's tip, but neither has been the subject of a campaign organized by workers in the way Instacart has. An Amazon spokesperson said via email that it guarantees its delivery contractors $18 an hour, but didn't respond to questions about whether customer tips subsidize that guaranteed rate. Shipt did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Postmates, a direct competitor with DoorDash, said in instances where a minimum base pay is in effect, it does not include customer tips in that figure, but instead adds them on top."
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...artups-are-using-tips-to-fulfill-pay-promises
> 
> my email is [email protected]


Nice job, instacart didn't take long to change their policy.


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## Drizzle (Jan 1, 2018)

Door dash definately uses tips as a way to pay employees base pay. They market it as a gratuity, it is not by definition they should be required by law to call it a delivery fee. Its decietful to the customer. Does the customer know tips are just fees? Most likely not customers and drivers do not know. We are all being decieved by these companies. Its not one its all of them, one company starts stealing tips now they sll steal tips, they use our cars as equity and pull out vc loans spend money recklessly and steal our tips while lowering base pay and manipulate us with shady psycological tricks to get us to drive for free.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

San Francisco Examiner: SF official calls for investigation into DoorDash for taking tips from delivery workers.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sf-official-calls-investigation-doordash-taking-tips-delivery-workers/


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Base pay is variable for PN drivers.


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