# 1099-K has incorrect numbers



## Bob Reynolds

I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly. 

1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.

2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.

3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver. 

4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.

5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement. 

6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.


----------



## AintWorthIt

I concur on all accounts, I was able to access mine today. I'm adding up all my pay stubs and reporting that. I really am getting sick of Uber and it's constant BS with it's drivers. They want us to pay tax on the SRF and not them. Simple as that.


----------



## chi1cabby

@Tristan Zier have a look please.


----------



## pengduck

AintWorthIt said:


> I concur on all accounts, I was able to access mine today. I'm adding up all my pay stubs and reporting that. I really am getting sick of Uber and it's constant BS with it's drivers. They want us to pay tax on the SRF and not them. Simple as that.


When you fill out your tax return that and the 20% comes off as an expense required to make the actual income.


----------



## LAuberX

I have posted on other "1099" threads, independent contractors should not get form 1099-K per the IRS!

WTF is going on??


----------



## Txchick

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly.
> 
> 1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.
> 
> 2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.
> 
> 3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver.
> 
> 4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.
> 
> 5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement.
> 
> 6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.


Have you contacted Uber yet?? If so what was their response.


----------



## Bob Reynolds

Txchick said:


> Have you contacted Uber yet?? If so what was their response.


The phone number, for questions, on the 1099K is 202-***-****. When you dial that number you get a partial voice mail. It has the name of an individual and says she is not available.


----------



## Bob Reynolds

pengduck said:


> When you fill out your tax return that and the 20% comes off as an expense required to make the actual income.


It's not exactly 20%. It's more than 20%. You forgot about the safe rider fee. Also if you do both UberX and UberXL the commission rates are different. UberX is 20% and Uber XL is 28%. That makes it impossible to take a standard percentage off of the gross amount reported.

The other problem you are going to have here is when you go to deduct the uber fees and the .57 cents a mile that you drive both empty and with passengers as you perform your independent contractor duties for Uber. This is going to raise red flags with the IRS.

What we really need from Uber is a regular 1099-Misc form from Uber that shows us the actual amount that Uber paid to the drivers. Remember Uber doesn't deduct taxes or pay social security. So any other number they provide is not valid.

We also need to know how many miles we drove with the Uber App on. (They have this information because they have to keep up with the Insurance) With those two numbers, we could do our (simple) taxes in less than 10 minutes.


----------



## OrlUberOffDriver

Hey @Bob Reynolds I have Matt number: (202) 780-****


----------



## Bob Reynolds

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Hey @Bob Reynolds I have Matt number: (202) ***-****


Maybe they have different numbers if you have questions?


----------



## OrlUberOffDriver

He is OPS for Florida. He should have answers. 
Btw I requested a paper copy and uber has rejected my request thus far. Still trying.


----------



## SuperDuperUber

This is totally outrageous. Another example of Uber negligence, arrogance and incompetence in dealing with the drivers. They first under pay you THEN they set you up to be overtaxed by the IRS. If I was in San Francisco I would ping an Uber driver and have him drive me right thru Uber headquarters windows.


----------



## Uber Slave

In addition to my 1099-K which overstates my uber income by approx 20%, I also received a mysterious 1099-MISC for about 10% of what I earned during the year. At best, this is complete incompetence. At worst - it is tax fraud - and the 100,000 + drivers have all just been screwed - along with the federal government - this is what a criminal enterprise does. Good luck with that IPO assholes - you are now ****ed.


----------



## Shiny

Actually when you add the rider fee and the 20% it equals about 29% or more. So we really are only getting about a third of the money, then you deduct gas, but still have to pay to pay taxes. I am running a spread sheet and so far it looks like I am making about $5 something an hour. I will continue to monitor everything for the next 2 weeks or so. I am fine with job, but since they reduced the rates, we are really
being used. I would like to still drive, but I can't work for $5 plus an hour. I am driving a uberX. I also so saw the 1099. I went to that track 1099 site and it seemed they were trying to get us to file through the. I sent an email to uber about my 1099. I received a email to read the questions on the uber dashboard. She also said if I did not receive my 1099 by Feb 2 to let them know. Then I had the email to retrieve. I could not retrieve it. I saw that form of the total paid to me. That is not the right form. They have to give us something showing what they paid us. Those 1099 were to be done by Jan 31.


----------



## jo5eph

Im just going to report this to the IRS directly and see what they are going to say.


----------



## cybertec69

The 1099K also includes the tolls and Uber's commission, you will need to expense those two when doing your taxes. It is not just the gross you received on your check, when you do your taxes you will take the 1099K file the 1099K as income, then take out the tolls and file it under tolls, then after taking out the tolls, take whatever number is left and subtract the uber commission you are paying and file that number as paid commissions to Uber, you will not pay taxes for commissions to Uber.


----------



## jo5eph

Even after all that, nothing on this 1099k form matches what was deposited in my bank account....

What would i need to calculate to match exactly what was deposited in my bank??


----------



## cybertec69

jo5eph said:


> Even after all that, nothing on this 1099k form matches what was deposited in my bank account....
> 
> What would i need to calculate to match exactly what was deposited in my bank??


It has nothing to do with what was deposited into your account, you also need to add Uber's commission and tolls paid back to you, just go back to each of your weekly statements "not what was deposited into your account", just add those two items and the numbers will match your 1099K. You can find them in your accounts page.


----------



## NightRider

This page: https://partners.uber.com/statements/tax-summary/

Has a breakdown of the 1099-K amount, into Gross Fares, Split Fare Fees, and SRF. It also specifies charges for Device Subscription, Uber Fee, and gives "On-Trip Mileage".

Oh, and just to be clear, they were nice to add the following fine print at the bottom:
"Uber is a technology company with a proprietary technology platform and does not provide tax advice."

I'm too tired to think about this right now, but I was expecting a 1099-MISC and have a feeling this is going to complicate matters for many of us. With the amount of money we're making, who can afford an accountant, especially one that is going to knowledgeable enough to handle unravelling this mess?

I sense driver anger is about to go through the roof over the next 2 months.


----------



## cybertec69

NightRider said:


> This page: https://partners.uber.com/statements/tax-summary/
> 
> Has a breakdown of the 1099-K amount, into Gross Fares, Split Fare Fees, and SRF. It also specifies charges for Device Subscription, Uber Fee, and gives "On-Trip Mileage".
> 
> Oh, and just to be clear, they were nice to add the following fine print at the bottom:
> "Uber is a technology company with a proprietary technology platform and does not provide tax advice."
> 
> I'm too tired to think about this right now, but I was expecting a 1099-MISC and have a feeling this is going to complicate matters for many of us. With the amount of money we're making, who can afford an accountant, especially one that is going to knowledgeable enough to handle unravelling this mess?
> 
> I sense driver anger is about to go through the roof over the next 2 months.


I use Turbo tax, I file as Taxi Services. Turbo Tax is very easy, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to follow it's step by step instructions.


----------



## IndyDriver

I filed on the 20th based on the amounts they paid me directly...return was accepted and I've already got my refund. If I get audited I am ready to defend...Uber boned this one, as usual.


----------



## cybertec69

IndyDriver said:


> I filed on the 20th based on the amounts they paid me directly...return was accepted and I've already got my refund. If I get audited I am ready to defend...Uber boned this one, as usual.


So you messed up on your return is what you are saying.


----------



## IndyDriver

cybertec69 said:


> So you messed up on your return is what you are saying.


Sure, but I wasn't issuing the wrong tax forms at least. I assumed Uber would report the amount paid out, not make it unnecessarily complicated. Support wouldn't give me a good answer, either. I'll file amended return at some point before the 15th but am in no hurry since I don't owe anything...just in the details of reporting.

After review, it looks like I over-reported by 15$ anyway. So my net profit from Uber/Lyft combined last year was $88 on around $6000 in gross payments.


----------



## pengduck

First what is on the 1099-k is what is reported to the IRS. You should have kept track of all your information. I print my pay statement every week and put it in a binder. So I have at my disposal a record of every fee that Uber took. So when I file my 1120s to the IRS they will look at these numbers. If Uber has done something wrong it will trigger an audit of how Uber does things. It is not Uber's responsibility to keep up with your mileage. Getting them to give you that information may prove impossible.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly... Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.


I wish you were correct - but that's not how Uber is set-up legally, or how they will be set-up until the courts force them to change.
*They ARE in fact the third-party network: that is the DEFINITION of their business* - and exactly how it is described in your Uber Driver Agreement. You can read it for yourself by logging on to your account and viewing your profile - there's a link at the bottom of the page.

This is one of those things that will have to be settled through litigation - and legislation. But for now, Uber/Raiser is absolutely correct in reporting income on 1099-k.


----------



## pengduck

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I wish you were correct - but that's not how Uber is set-up legally, or how they will be set-up until the courts force them to change.
> *They ARE in fact the third-party network: that is the DEFINITION of their business* - and exactly how it is described in your Uber Driver Agreement. You can read it for yourself by logging on to your account and viewing your profile - there's a link at the bottom of the page.
> 
> This is one of those things that will have to be settled through litigation - and legislation. But for now, Uber/Raiser is absolutely correct in reporting income on 1099-k.


I disagree! If they only accepted payment then maybe. However with the amount of control they have over everything I see this much differently.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

It doesn't matter if you disagree or not.
It's a fact and not disputable.
You can call the sky 'ground' all you want... Just read your driver agreement -
or take a look at the how the lawyers for Uber described the company in federal court last week: http://blink.htcsense.com/web/articleweb.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=35476058


----------



## Tristan Zier

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly.
> 
> 1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.
> 
> 2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.
> 
> 3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver.
> 
> 4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.
> 
> 5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement.
> 
> 6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.


1. Technically Uber is acting as a lead gen / third party payment network for your own driving services business, so they are correct with the 1099-K. Even though they aren't required to send one unless you make over $20K and receive over 200 payouts, they did because it helped people remember to pay taxes. Otherwise a lot of drivers thought they didn't have to file taxes, which is incredibly incorrect and would have led to a lot of audits.

2. Again, not the wrong form. If they included the safe rider fee and commissions on the 1099-K, you'll just include those as income and an equal offsetting expense (under Commissions on Schedule C). Thus, you aren't taxed on those amounts because it nets to $0.

3. See 2. You aren't taxed on the total amount "collected". You're taxed on your business profit, which is earnings - expenses (including commissions).

4. This doesn't matter. You are running your own "driving services business", and your work through UberX, XL, and Black is all part of that. You record all of those earnings and expenses on one Schedule C.

5/6. Again, not necessarily correct.

You can learn more about what you need to know for taxes as a rideshare driver through our guide at *******************/guides/ridesharing


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

wow... someone who 'gets it'!


----------



## IndyDriver

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It doesn't matter if you disagree or not.
> It's a fact and not disputable.
> You can call the sky 'ground' all you want... Just read your driver agreement -
> or take a look at the how the lawyers for Uber described the company in federal court last week: http://blink.htcsense.com/web/articleweb.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=35476058


That article is an interesting read. Looks like Uber and Lyft are about to get grilled over independent contractor/employee in Cali.


----------



## Sly

Can I write off my Aspirins while doing my taxes?


----------



## Tx rides

Tristan Zier said:


> 1. Technically Uber is acting as a lead gen / third party payment network for your own driving services business, so they are correct with the 1099-K. Even though they aren't required to send one unless you make over $20K and receive over 200 payouts, they did because it helped people remember to pay taxes. Otherwise a lot of drivers thought they didn't have to file taxes, which is incredibly incorrect and would have led to a lot of audits.
> 
> 2. Again, not the wrong form. If they included the safe rider fee and commissions on the 1099-K, you'll just include those as income and an equal offsetting expense (under Commissions on Schedule C). Thus, you aren't taxed on those amounts because it nets to $0.
> 
> 3. See 2. You aren't taxed on the total amount "collected". You're taxed on your business profit, which is earnings - expenses (including commissions).
> 
> 4. This doesn't matter. You are running your own "driving services business", and your work through UberX, XL, and Black is all part of that. You record all of those earnings and expenses on one Schedule C.
> 
> 5/6. Again, not necessarily correct.
> 
> You can learn more about what you need to know for taxes as a rideshare driver through our guide at *******************/guides/ridesharing


But the drivers are "independent contractors", right ? That requires a MISC


----------



## Abadani

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly.
> 
> 1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.
> 
> 2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.
> 
> 3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver.
> 
> 4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.
> 
> 5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement.
> 
> 6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.





AintWorthIt said:


> I concur on all accounts, I was able to access mine today. I'm adding up all my pay stubs and reporting that. I really am getting sick of Uber and it's constant BS with it's drivers. They want us to pay tax on the SRF and not them. Simple as that.


----------



## Abadani

After carefully investigating 1099K sent by uber, I found out that amount has shown on box 1a reflects the total fare plus toll and misc fee. This means uber commission is included as well. on other words, we pay tax on the amount that we did not receive. 
Is not usually we should pay tax on the amount paid to us by uber?
This is just not right to pay tax on the total fare.


----------



## Sly

Abadani said:


> After carefully investigating 1099K sent by uber, I found out that amount has shown on box 1a reflects the total fare plus toll and misc fee. This means uber commission is included as well. on other words, we pay tax on the amount that we did not receive.
> Is not usually we should pay tax on the amount paid to us by uber?
> This is just not right to pay tax on the total fare.


If they're going to do that then they should also send a spreadsheet itemizing all the fees we paid to them which they are showing on our 1099's.


----------



## cybertec69

Abadani said:


> After carefully investigating 1099K sent by uber, I found out that amount has shown on box 1a reflects the total fare plus toll and misc fee. This means uber commission is included as well. on other words, we pay tax on the amount that we did not receive.
> Is not usually we should pay tax on the amount paid to us by uber?
> This is just not right to pay tax on the total fare.


You will not pay taxes on uber fees, when you file your taxes uber commissions, you will file under commissions paid to Uber, which you will not pay taxes on, it is filed as commissions paid to Uber.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

QUOTE="Sly, post: 166786, member: 1648"]Can I write off my Aspirins while doing my taxes?[/QUOTE]
I don't think so but I'd like to know can I write off the aspirins I have to take to deal with the pax? Lol


----------



## IndyDriver

Sly said:


> If they're going to do that then they should also send a spreadsheet itemizing all the fees we paid to them which they are showing on our 1099's.


This is dead on...but remember Uber only cares about pax and Uber, so it'll never happen.


----------



## Bob Reynolds

Tristan Zier said:


> 1. Technically Uber is acting as a lead gen / third party payment network for your own driving services business, so they are correct with the 1099-K. Even though they aren't required to send one unless you make over $20K and receive over 200 payouts, they did because it helped people remember to pay taxes. Otherwise a lot of drivers thought they didn't have to file taxes, which is incredibly incorrect and would have led to a lot of audits.
> 
> 2. Again, not the wrong form. If they included the safe rider fee and commissions on the 1099-K, you'll just include those as income and an equal offsetting expense (under Commissions on Schedule C). Thus, you aren't taxed on those amounts because it nets to $0.
> 
> 3. See 2. You aren't taxed on the total amount "collected". You're taxed on your business profit, which is earnings - expenses (including commissions).
> 
> 4. This doesn't matter. You are running your own "driving services business", and your work through UberX, XL, and Black is all part of that. You record all of those earnings and expenses on one Schedule C.
> 
> 5/6. Again, not necessarily correct.
> 
> You can learn more about what you need to know for taxes as a rideshare driver through our guide at *******************/guides/ridesharing


The 1099K is the wrong form for Uber driver independent contractors. To understand this you need to know exactly why the 1099K form was established in the first place. The IRS was not getting income reports from Paypal, Amazon and credit card processors that were transmitting payments to merchants for purchases made from their business. So 5 years ago they came up with the 1099K to report these payments. Prior to that time, it was impossible for the IRS to gather this information.

You must understand that every merchant receiving a 1099K from Amazon, Paypal, Square or a credit card processor has the customer's name, address and phone number on file along with a record of the merchandise purchased. The merchant is free to contact the customer at anytime (before or after the purchase) through e-mail, regular mail or via phone. The merchant also is responsible for advertising and gathering customers. The merchants sets their own prices. THE PAYMENT PROCESSOR HAS NO DECISION OR INPUT ON THE PRICING. Sometimes merchants (NOT PAYMENT PROCESSORS) create the ads for publication on eBay or on Amazon. Sometimes merchants (NOT PAYMENT PROCESSORS) create ads for publication on Craigs List. Sometimes merchants (NOT PAYMENT PROCESSORS) gather customers at their store or at a street festival. In any event the purchases are most often paid for via a credit card. With all of this going on, the IRS was concerned that eBay and Amazon sellers were not reporting their income correctly. So the 1099K was invented.

*Uber is not a payment processor*. Uber is a business that provides transportation services to the general public. Uber sets the rates for the riders as well as the commissions for the drivers. Uber keeps all of the customer records. Uber knows the rider e-mail addresses, home addresses and phone numbers. The drivers do not know this information and they do not have a way to get it or to look it up. Uber collects all of the money and Uber decides how they are going to disburse that money.

VISA, Paypal and Stripe are all payment processors. Uber is not.

Prior to the 1099K there was just a plain old 1099 which is now the 1099-MISC. For the past several decades, businesses have been required to furnish a 1099 to the IRS for any annual payments exceeding $600 to any non corporation. That would be almost any person that any business paid over $600 a year to. That is where Uber comes in. They need to report the income on form 1099-MISC.

Is this a casual mistake on Uber's part? Or part of a well planned scheme to appear to not be in the transportation business?

This is a really big deal and it needs to be fixed.


----------



## IndyDriver

Simple, it's Uber trying to legally distance themselves as a transp. company even though all signs say otherwise. I agree that they aren't a payment processor, but as others in the thread have pointed out, until the law tells them they are wrong this is how it's going to be.


----------



## Bob Reynolds

IndyDriver said:


> Simple, it's Uber trying to legally distance themselves as a transp. company even though all signs say otherwise.


Bingo! Now Uber will piss of the IRS. Let's see how that works out for them.

At some point the investors are going to realize there are some really bad management decisions being made at Uber.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

IndyDriver said:


> Simple, it's Uber trying to legally distance themselves as a transp. company even though all signs say otherwise. I agree that they aren't a payment processor, but as others in the thread have pointed out, until the law tells them they are wrong this is how it's going to be.


For taxes it doesn't matter as long as you know what you're doing. The end result will be the same. The problem here is that tons of folks started driving, didn't keep track of anything and don't have a f***ing clue that they are now a business. I have been self employed for years filling out a schedule C etc. It's not that difficult. I was doing this when all we had was the instructions picked up from the post office and we had to do our own math on paper (remember paper? Math? )


----------



## IndyDriver

Yes, I remember paper and math. Matter of fact, I love them...that's how I found this place and confirmed what my numbers were telling me after driving for a couple months. I tracked my miles and hours worked diligently when I drove. The problem is X% of Uber drivers are clueless to any of this, and Uber knows it and thrives on it.


----------



## Tommyo

Sorry if I missed this - what is the full picture in regard to the safe driver fee? I recall that to be money in - money out - a wash each pay period. I expect to create an expense of equal amount on my books to offset this "income" component. Any input on this?


----------



## Tommyo

I found that adding my net deposit income from Rasier [on my books] plus the Uber Fee - on the Uber 2014 tax summary......the sum came very close to the claimed total on their Uber 1099-k. WTF is with the month by month subtotal disclosure. I am not sure this 1099-K is the appropriate from - Perhaps the proper form is 1099-misc.


----------



## IndyDriver

Tommyo said:


> Sorry if I missed this - what is the full picture in regard to the safe driver fee? I recall that to be money in - money out - a wash each pay period. I expect to create an expense of equal amount on my books to offset this "income" component. Any input on this?


EDIT: Disclaimer, I am not a CPA. This is personal advice to the best of my knowledge from this forum and other research.

Here is what I am doing when I amend my taxes since they ended up providing the 1099-K. I am using my gross total listed in 1a, upper right box. Next, I'll list two deductions. The first is found in box 3, which lists number of payments (which is also your trip count). This gives you the number of $1 fees to deduct.

Next, I'll multiply the remaining number by 20% to find my deduction for Uber's licensing fee as they call it. This should equal the exact number you have actually received in deposits from Uber (not including *guarantee/referral/bonus money , reported on 1099-Misc*).

The one shortcoming I see in my method is if you have a bunch of split fare charges, as those are also included in the 1099-K gross number...or obviously if you do multiple services at different commissions. But if you just drive one service at/one commission fee, it should work.


----------



## IndyDriver

So for example, box 1a is $4500, box 3 is 400. $4500-400=$4100 gross, 4100*20%=820. So report 4500 gross from Uber, minus $1220 in deductions/commissions to Uber.

Same net effect as just reporting your payouts from Uber, but will keep the IRS happy since Uber is providing them the 1099s with gross amounts.


----------



## Oc_DriverX

Is there anyone here who was driving in 2013 and can tell us which 1099's were sent last year?


----------



## Oc_DriverX

IndyDriver said:


> EDIT: Disclaimer, I am not a CPA. This is personal advice to the best of my knowledge from this forum and other research.
> 
> Here is what I am doing when I amend my taxes since they ended up providing the 1099-K. I am using my gross total listed in 1a, upper right box. Next, I'll list two deductions. The first is found in box 3, which lists number of payments (which is also your trip count). This gives you the number of $1 fees to deduct.
> 
> Next, I'll multiply the remaining number by 20% to find my deduction for Uber's licensing fee as they call it. This should equal the exact number you have actually received in deposits from Uber (not including *guarantee/referral/bonus money , reported on 1099-Misc*).
> 
> The one shortcoming I see in my method is if you have a bunch of split fare charges, as those are also included in the 1099-K gross number...or obviously if you do multiple services at different commissions. But if you just drive one service at/one commission fee, it should work.


The only problem is that in some markets, there was a period of time when the SRF did go to the drivers, or at least it did in the summer for LA/OC. If it works for you, then I would use it. For me, I will have to try to sift through the numbers to see whether the SRF number they reported in the summary is the amount of SRF fees that Uber kept. At this point, I don't believe that it is.

I believe that one result of the way that Uber is reporting is that it will appear to the IRS that we are a higher % of expenses than if Uber simply reported out our true revenues, and we deducted of expenses from that number.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Abadani said:


> After carefully investigating 1099K sent by uber, I found out that amount has shown on box 1a reflects the total fare plus toll and misc fee. This means uber commission is included as well. on other words, we pay tax on the amount that we did not receive. Is not usually we should pay tax on the amount paid to us by uber?
> This is just not right to pay tax on the total fare.


Let me try to explain, again (and yes, I know it's confusing!)...

YOU charged the customer.
YOU are credited (paid) the entire fare & SRF.
You THEN credit UBER their 20% and the SRFs collected.
Uber/Raiser then forward the reconciled amounts to you.

YOU then get to deduct the Uber fees (20% and SRFs) that YOU PAID TO UBER as expenses - along with your mileage or actual automobile expenses.


----------



## IndyDriver

Oc_DriverX said:


> The only problem is that in some markets, there was a period of time when the SRF did go to the drivers, or at least it did in the summer for LA/OC. If it works for you, then I would use it. For me, I will have to try to sift through the number to see whether the SRF number they reported in the summary is the amount of SRF fees that Uber kept. At this point, I don't believe that it is.


That's why they should provide a breakdown of the actual fees you have paid them...they are the ones that brag about all the data they have after all. This shouldn't be that hard for them.


----------



## uber&out

I think IndyDriver explained it excellently, no one should or will be required to pay taxes on more than what one received in earnings. Although ludicrous on the part of UBER to not provide instructions and having to put all of it's independent contractor drivers on near panic mode about such an important issue proves you could be successful and still incompetent at the same time. Business's which remain successful survive by a cohesive relationship between company and those workers - be it contractors, employees or whoever - that generates the money needed to keep the place going. But you see it's become apparent the corporate culture here is geared towards building it up quickly and then sell it off so f..k the independent contractors there are plenty of them available short term for their needs to achieve their goal. Sad as it may be that they could of achieved the same and even better results by at-least making it appear they gave a s..t. UBER, good P.R. does matter in the end it seperates the men from the boys and if you fail to retain respect and goodwill from those who are needed for your very existence it will no doubt affect your public offerings potential even more than you already have by a couple of bad if not idiotic public relations maneuvers displayed in the past several weeks.


----------



## Oc_DriverX

Tristan Zier said:


> 1. Technically Uber is acting as a lead gen / third party payment network for your own driving services business, so they are correct with the 1099-K. Even though they aren't required to send one unless you make over $20K and receive over 200 payouts, they did because it helped people remember to pay taxes. Otherwise a lot of drivers thought they didn't have to file taxes, which is incredibly incorrect and would have led to a lot of audits.
> 
> 2. Again, not the wrong form. If they included the safe rider fee and commissions on the 1099-K, you'll just include those as income and an equal offsetting expense (under Commissions on Schedule C). Thus, you aren't taxed on those amounts because it nets to $0.
> 
> 3. See 2. You aren't taxed on the total amount "collected". You're taxed on your business profit, which is earnings - expenses (including commissions).
> 
> 4. This doesn't matter. You are running your own "driving services business", and your work through UberX, XL, and Black is all part of that. You record all of those earnings and expenses on one Schedule C.
> 
> 5/6. Again, not necessarily correct.
> 
> You can learn more about what you need to know for taxes as a rideshare driver through our guide at *******************/guides/ridesharing


On the web page you cited contains the following language: "If you purchase drinks or snacks for passengers, you can write off 50% of these expenses."

Why wouldn't a driver be able to write off 100% of those expenses?


----------



## IndyDriver

Oc_DriverX said:


> On the web page you cited contains the following language: "If you purchase drinks or snacks for passengers, you can write off 50% of these expenses."
> 
> Why wouldn't a driver be able to write off 100% of those expenses?


Short answer, IRS only allows 50%. As to why, I can't answer that.


----------



## MikeB

Bob Reynolds said:


> Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are


liable for all the taxes.


----------



## Simon

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Let me try to explain, again (and yes, I know it's confusing!)...
> 
> YOU charged the customer.
> YOU are credited (paid) the entire fare & SRF.
> You THEN credit UBER their 20% and the SRFs collected.
> Uber/Raiser then forward the reconciled amounts to you.
> 
> YOU then get to deduct the Uber fees (20% and SRFs) that YOU PAID TO UBER as expenses - along with your mileage or actual automobile expenses.


So the 1099 k is correct it's up to us to do the math then, correct?


----------



## uberdoesntcare

I have tried every method on this board to to get my number to match up with the 1099k bs. It always shows more income then was actually deposited into my account. I am so done with this company and their sketchy shit. Bring on the audit, I am not paying extra taxes on money that I didn't make. I have all my documentation and I will file on schedule C and pay taxes only on what I made.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

IndyDriver said:


> Short answer, IRS only allows 50%. As to why, I can't answer that.


I know for meals given to employees it's 50% (usually) but meals and entertainment for the general public to promote the business are at 100% I believe. I don't provide any so it's not an issue for me. I'll try to find the relevant IRS publication when I gave time.


----------



## gaj

Here is what I found, it reconciled perfectly with the total amount deposited to my bank account:

1099-K box 1a should match the total on the tax summary page under "1099-L breakdown" (your gross fares + SRF's.)
If you received a 1099-MISC, this is your referral and bonus income.
If you did NOT receive a 1099-MISC, you did not make over $600 on referrals and bonuses. You will need to add these up manually from your driver statements.

The total of these is your total gross income to be included on your taxes. (Schedule C line 1 Gross Receipts or Sales)

You then take the following deductions:
From the Uber tax summary page left side "Safe Rider Fees"
From the Uber tax summary page right side "Device Subscriptions"
From the Uber tax summary page right side "Uber Fee"
Miles driven while online (not online miles from uber tax summary, actual driven miles) * current IRS mileage deduction.

In my case, I did not receive a 1099-MISC and had to calculate the bonus part of the income from my driver statements.

Summary: My 1099-K income box 1a + manually calculated bonuses - SRF fees - Device Subscriptions - Uber Fees = What was actually deposited in my bank account.

If yours does not match, you either forgot to include your bonuses/referrals if you didn't get a 1099-MISC, or Uber screwed up your math.

I will leave it up to my CPA to determine if all the the deductions listed above are valid business expenses / where to include on my Schedule C / etc.


----------



## Uberdawg

gaj said:


> Here is what I found, it reconciled perfectly with the total amount deposited to my bank account:
> 
> 1099-K box 1a should match the total on the tax summary page under "1099-L breakdown" (your gross fares + SRF's.)
> If you received a 1099-MISC, this is your referral and bonus income.
> If you did NOT receive a 1099-MISC, you did not make over $600 on referrals and bonuses. You will need to add these up manually from your driver statements.
> 
> The total of these is your total gross income to be included on your taxes. (Schedule C line 1 Gross Receipts or Sales)
> 
> You then take the following deductions:
> From the Uber tax summary page left side "Safe Rider Fees"
> From the Uber tax summary page right side "Device Subscriptions"
> From the Uber tax summary page right side "Uber Fee"
> Miles driven while online (not online miles from uber tax summary, actual driven miles) * current IRS mileage deduction.
> 
> In my case, I did not receive a 1099-MISC and had to calculate the bonus part of the income from my driver statements.
> 
> Summary: My 1099-K income box 1a + manually calculated bonuses - SRF fees - Device Subscriptions - Uber Fees = What was actually deposited in my bank account.
> 
> If yours does not match, you either forgot to include your bonuses/referrals if you didn't get a 1099-MISC, or Uber screwed up your math.
> 
> I will leave it up to my CPA to determine if all the the deductions listed above are valid business expenses / where to include on my Schedule C / etc.


This is correct.

And Michael-Cleveland is right. Read the Partnership Agreement. Uber is the clearinghouse for transactions but they are not the Payer or Payee.

IF YOU DO NOT USE THE UBER 1099K NUMBERS AND ONLY USE THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PAID INTO YOUR ACCOUNT YOU ARE ASKING THE IRS TO COME AND RAPE YOUR WOMEN AND TAKE THE FIRST BORN CHILD.

Do exactly what @gaj says. That is the way your taxes should look. 1099K + 1099 Misc=Gross Revenue - Uber Fees- SRF- Other Uber Fees should equal the amount deposited in your account (this is your Gross Margin). Then make all allowable deductions.

In short, hire a professional to do this. You will save money in the long run. BTW no Liberty, H&R Block, TurboTax. Get somebody real. I promise, you will save their fee plus money.


----------



## Sly

$-6,000 for the year. Thank God for the Gas 0.56 deduction.


----------



## Ole Kingston

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly.
> 
> 1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.
> 
> 2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.
> 
> 3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver.
> 
> 4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.
> 
> 5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement.
> 
> 6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.


I just read through the 1099-K instructions and in addition to all the great points you raised, Uber SHOULD NOT be issuing 1099-Ks for drivers who earned less than $20,000. I started in late August and to my surprises I'm getting a 1099-K. I've emailed Arabist my concerns and nobody seems to care!!


----------



## Uberdawg

Sly said:


> $-6,000 for the year. Thank God for the Gas 0.56 deduction.


Dunno sly. 6G loss. Good Luck with that


----------



## duggles

Luckily, Lyft invoice matches up perfectly with my records.

Given that my summary was off, and that all of you are reporting that your records don't accurately reflect Uber accounting, I declined to accept/download my Uber tax forms. If you noted in the email, by clicking the link and downloading you were authorizing Uber to send your income in electronically. Therefore, also give them proof that they can give the IRS that you viewed your taxes and accepted their numbers. I reported to the IRS my records which, as Lyft's invoice indicates, are dead on balls accurate. And should I be one of the unlucky 1%/year that get audited, I'm putting all the blame on Fuber... For whatever that's worth.


----------



## moni4nuttin

How the Hell does uber include a referral bonus on my statement for $1002.82. I referred nobody!!!!


----------



## AintWorthIt

For those using turbo tax, where do you enter the SRF at? Also those with lyft, do you setup a seperate business for that as well or combine with uber?

I have my job, uber/lyft and a rental house. My heads about to explode sitting here with the turbotax.


----------



## Oc_DriverX

Sly said:


> $-6,000 for the year. Thank God for the Gas 0.56 deduction.


I guess that is great from a tax standpoint, but if that number is anywhere close to your real results, then that is not a good thing. The IRS could also claim that you are not in a business, but a hobby and say that you cannot claim those losses.


----------



## Oc_DriverX

Ole Kingston said:


> I just read through the 1099-K instructions and in addition to all the great points you raised, Uber SHOULD NOT be issuing 1099-Ks for drivers who earned less than $20,000. I started in late August and to my surprises I'm getting a 1099-K. I've emailed Arabist my concerns and nobody seems to care!!


I wonder if they only reported those who earned more than $20,000, or did they report everyone they gave a 1099 to.


----------



## gaj

1099-MISC also includes guarantee payments. Basically all payments to you that were not billed through a customer's credit card.

Looks like Uber sent 1099-K's to everyone, regardless of income. That is good.

Looks like they only sent 1099-MISC's to those who received more than $600 in referrals/bonuses/guarantees/etc, which means that if you actually received less than $600 in referrals/bonuses/guarantees/etc, you must look at your statements and add it up yourself (which is dumb, but that is the way it is.)

I also agree, stay away from storefront tax preparers (H&R block, etc)-- they are geared more towards W-2 people with few deductions who don't want to figure out a 1040 or 1040EZ.

Spend a few hundred on a good accountant- think of it as an investment in running your business. Get your taxes done right the first time, or you will end up paying more in the end.

I also believe that costs for the accountant that does all this for you is tax-deductible next year as well.

g


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Ole Kingston said:


> I just read through the 1099-K instructions and in addition to all the great points you raised, Uber SHOULD NOT be issuing 1099-Ks for drivers who earned less than $20,000. I started in late August and to my surprises I'm getting a 1099-K. I've emailed Arabist my concerns and nobody seems to care!!


They are not required to. Doesn't mean they can't. Amazes me they even bothered quite frankly.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Oc_DriverX said:


> I guess that is great from a tax standpoint, but if that number is anywhere close to your real results, then that is not a good thing. The IRS could also claim that you are not in a business, but a hobby and say that you cannot claim those losses.


Only if you continue to lose money. One year is not an issue. The test is whether you are attempting to make money and what you are doing reflects that. Most businesses lose money at first anyway. The first year I was self employed I did some hot shot work. Started late in the year and the mileage was insane (2500 miles per week and a lot of hours for little money). I realized very quickly it was not worth it and stopped. But I had a negative net income on that because of the mileage which was offset by my previous job's income.


----------



## gaj

Fuzzyelvis said:


> They are not required to. Doesn't mean they can't. Amazes me they even bothered quite frankly.


I concur.... strange that they would send out the K's, but not the MISC's (when neither is required).....

But I guess that is the Uber way: Do enough to confuse and irritate the drivers, but not enough be helpful and straightforward


----------



## UberOne

I just finished filing. I lumped together the Uber fee, SRF, and split fees altogether as commision and fees paid to an agent and its services, which is technically what Uber is functioning as since it is providing a service that links drivers to riders. I used H&R block's online filing feature, and it was just as good as turbotax if not better, and definitely cheaper; the premium which includes small business filing is $50 with $36 state additional, whereas turbotax charges $80 without state filing.


----------



## UberOne

i also love how turbo tax slashed prices in response to the backlash it received for raising prices. However, the prices still look inflated.


----------



## CowboyMC

Tx rides said:


> But the drivers are "independent contractors", right ? That requires a MISC


No. It depends on where the money is coming from. If you were an independent contractor (like a self-employed plumber) and took credit cards for your work, you would get a 1099K from the credit card company.


----------



## Uberdawg

CowboyMC said:


> No. It depends on where the money is coming from. If you were an independent contractor (like a self-employed plumber) and took credit cards for your work, you would get a 1099K from the credit card company.


Which is why you are getting a 1099K is because Uber is basically your credit card processor. In the Uberverse we live in, the rider is paying you and Uber is collecting the money for you, not for Uber.


----------



## Tx rides

CowboyMC said:


> No. It depends on where the money is coming from. If you were an independent contractor (like a self-employed plumber) and took credit cards for your work, you would get a 1099K from the credit card company.


Correct. We do get those from our Merchant. I think that Uber is going to have a tough time claiming merchant status here


----------



## Moe

Txchick said:


> Have you contacted Uber yet?? If so what was their response.


I did and theyre ignoring my emails


----------



## Barbara Bitela

here's the money line:

_What we really need from Uber is a regular 1099-Misc form from Uber that shows us the actual amount that Uber paid to the drivers. Remember Uber doesn't deduct taxes or pay social security. So any other number they provide is not valid._

We were lumped into a category because UBER takes CREDIT CARD and PAY PAL payments NOT cash.

When or if you use Turbo tax it's 20 percent off the top, also the RENTAL fee on the phone IF you still rent, and NOT the dollar in dollar out (that's a wash) and then factor miles. We will all probably owe the state but not much if anything to the FED still I would have preferred uber do a regular 1099.


----------



## MikeB

Bob Reynolds said:


> Bingo! Now Uber will piss of the IRS. Let's see how that works out for them.


I sincerely wish the IRS raids Uber HQ on 1455 Market St. in San Francisco, seizes all the records, freezes the banks accounts, halts effective immediately all their operations on the United States soil and detains Travis Kalanik.


----------



## Sly

MikeB said:


> I sincerely wish the IRS raids Uber HQ on 1455 Market St. in San Francisco, seizes all the records, freezes the banks accounts, halts effective immediately all their operations on the United States soil and detains Travis Kalanik.


IRS too busy dealing with Obamacare to care.


----------



## uberdoesntcare

gaj said:


> Here is what I found, it reconciled perfectly with the total amount deposited to my bank account:
> 
> 1099-K box 1a should match the total on the tax summary page under "1099-L breakdown" (your gross fares + SRF's.)
> If you received a 1099-MISC, this is your referral and bonus income.
> If you did NOT receive a 1099-MISC, you did not make over $600 on referrals and bonuses. You will need to add these up manually from your driver statements.
> 
> The total of these is your total gross income to be included on your taxes. (Schedule C line 1 Gross Receipts or Sales)
> 
> You then take the following deductions:
> From the Uber tax summary page left side "Safe Rider Fees"
> From the Uber tax summary page right side "Device Subscriptions"
> From the Uber tax summary page right side "Uber Fee"
> Miles driven while online (not online miles from uber tax summary, actual driven miles) * current IRS mileage deduction.
> 
> In my case, I did not receive a 1099-MISC and had to calculate the bonus part of the income from my driver statements.
> 
> Summary: My 1099-K income box 1a + manually calculated bonuses - SRF fees - Device Subscriptions - Uber Fees = What was actually deposited in my bank account.
> 
> If yours does not match, you either forgot to include your bonuses/referrals if you didn't get a 1099-MISC, or Uber screwed up your math.
> 
> I will leave it up to my CPA to determine if all the the deductions listed above are valid business expenses / where to include on my Schedule C / etc.


Thanks for the explanation, I used your formula and also added the bonus but I am still being overtaxed by $40.63. I tried calling that phone number with is the message machine for Tina but no one ever answers or returns calls. So much for them caring about their business partners. I guess we are also helping uber pay their tax bill also. Congrats on your stuff matching up, others are just screwed.


----------



## gaj

uberdoesntcare said:


> Thanks for the explanation, I used your formula and also added the bonus but I am still being overtaxed by $40.63. I tried calling that phone number with is the message machine for Tina but no one ever answers or returns calls. So much for them caring about their business partners. I guess we are also helping uber pay their tax bill also. Congrats on your stuff matching up, others are just screwed.


To make the IRS happy, I would use the numbers from the 1099-K and 1099-MISC/manually calculated extras if no 1099-misc... not what was deposited in your bank account.

Sucks that the numbers don't match, but not sure if it is worth the hassle to get Uber to correct a $40 mistake. (Especially if you want to file this year, ha)

g


----------



## CowboyMC

gaj said:


> I also agree, stay away from storefront tax preparers (H&R block, etc)-- they are geared more towards W-2 people with few deductions who don't want to figure out a 1040 or 1040EZ.
> 
> Spend a few hundred on a good accountant- think of it as an investment in running your business. Get your taxes done right the first time, or you will end up paying more in the end.
> 
> I also believe that costs for the accountant that does all this for you is tax-deductible next year as well.
> 
> g


It is OK, if you want to go to a store front tax preparer but make sure the person is an enrolled agent. I would say about 15% of tax preparers are enrolled agents. They have to take a 3 day IRS test and can represent people in a tax audit. What you pay to have the business part of your return done is tax deductible.

Disclaimer: I am an enrolled agent


----------



## gaj

CowboyMC said:


> It is OK, if you want to go to a store front tax preparer but make sure the person is an enrolled agent. I would say about 15% of tax preparers are enrolled agents. They have to take a 3 day IRS test and can represent people in a tax audit. What you pay to have the business part of your return done is tax deductible.
> 
> Disclaimer: I am an enrolled agent


That is good to know, I had no idea that there were different types of preparers at these types of places!

g


----------



## BostonBandit

Trying to get a general feel on - based on the experience of some others that have filed - what my rough net profit will be if I grossed $5,000 from Uber in 2014?

Naturally I have my own numbers to plug in, but just want to make sure I'm not far off - either direction - everyone else.

Thanks


----------



## Sly

BostonBandit said:


> Trying to get a general feel on - based on the experience of some others that have filed - what my rough net profit will be if I grossed $5,000 from Uber in 2014?
> 
> Naturally I have my own numbers to plug in, but just want to make sure I'm not far off - either direction - everyone else.
> 
> Thanks


My net is almost always in the negative after taking out the gas write off IRS gives you and I've been driving for 22 years.


----------



## lu181

jersey driver here these S.O.B somehow put in a charge for black car fund a NYC workers comp thing. A week Later no response was supposedly sent to upper manager what bs wrong state


----------



## CaptainJackLA

cybertec69 said:


> I use Turbo tax, I file as Taxi Services. Turbo Tax is very easy, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to follow it's step by step instructions.


I use HR Block. About the same. Everyone is freaking out. Spend $45 at Amazon and buy a tax program. Helps a lot.


----------



## IndyDriver

BostonBandit said:


> Trying to get a general feel on - based on the experience of some others that have filed - what my rough net profit will be if I grossed $5,000 from Uber in 2014?
> 
> Naturally I have my own numbers to plug in, but just want to make sure I'm not far off - either direction - everyone else.
> 
> Thanks


Hard to say, all depends on your empty to paid miles. Between Uber and Lyft I grossed just over $5k with 7800 miles (ouch), net profit of $103.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Sly said:


> Can I write off my Aspirins while doing my taxes?


yes! as long as your total medical expenses are more than 10% of your AGI


----------



## Laura Smith

IndyDriver said:


> EDIT: Disclaimer, I am not a CPA. This is personal advice to the best of my knowledge from this forum and other research.
> 
> Here is what I am doing when I amend my taxes since they ended up providing the 1099-K. I am using my gross total listed in 1a, upper right box. Next, I'll list two deductions. The first is found in box 3, which lists number of payments (which is also your trip count). This gives you the number of $1 fees to deduct.
> 
> Next, I'll multiply the remaining number by 20% to find my deduction for Uber's licensing fee as they call it. This should equal the exact number you have actually received in deposits from Uber (not including *guarantee/referral/bonus money , reported on 1099-Misc*).
> 
> The one shortcoming I see in my method is if you have a bunch of split fare charges, as those are also included in the 1099-K gross number...or obviously if you do multiple services at different commissions. But if you just drive one service at/one commission fee, it should work.


 Where are you putting these numbers? On the Schedule C business expense form?


----------



## Sly

Laura Smith said:


> Where are you putting these numbers? On the Schedule C business expense form?


You realize you are replying to a post over a year old right?


----------



## Jupiter

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly.
> 
> 1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.
> 
> 2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.
> 
> 3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver.
> 
> 4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.
> 
> 5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement.
> 
> 6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.


Yes - You are correct -Something is very wrong. IRS should know about this.


----------



## ian lowdermilk

What's wrong is the information you this are posting. Uber is a credit card processor. All the fees are included because those are deductions\work express


----------



## ian lowdermilk

Uberdawg said:


> Which is why you are getting a 1099K is because Uber is basically your credit card processor. In the Uberverse we live in, the rider is paying you and Uber is collecting the money for you, not for Uber.


Thabk you a lot of uneducated guesses in here


----------



## ian lowdermilk

Jupiter said:


> Yes - You are correct -Something is very wrong. IRS should know about this.


Lol nothing is wrong take your paperwork to an accountant and have them do your taxes. This is not something to do on your own. Schedule Cs can be tricky


----------



## UbertoTheStars

Did anyone read this??? I think you will find all you need to understand. What Uber is sending to many drivers is actually based on IRS standards.

Search Google for 'Understanding-Your-1099-K'

Many drivers fail to understand that relationship with Uber based nohow things occur. But we ARE independent and as such Uber functions as a 'merchant service provider' for us. We pay them a fee for access to their software, leads, reporting, credit card processing. I hate how they treat us and I have been protesting here in Florida about the way the dropped the rates but I do understand the relationship and their obligatio


----------



## Jupiter

ian lowdermilk said:


> Lol nothing is wrong take your paperwork to an accountant and have them do your taxes. This is not something to do on your own. Schedule Cs can be tricky


No so. Uber creates a cash flow to the driver that was never received. Uber makes the driver Uber take Uber as a deduction. In fact the driver is paid a commission. Uber should be taking the driver's commision as a deduction - not the driver taking Uber as a deduction. The passenger is Uber's client and the passenger pays Uber -not the driver. Uber then pays a fee/commission to the driver for services rendered. The 1099 that Uber provided states a cash flow to the driver that was not received. Tell that to your banker!
Last year Uber provided correct 1099s. This is an accounting thst creates a different cssh flow picture for Uber. Talk to an accountant and your banker


----------



## KGB7

Jupiter said:


> No so. Uber creates a cash flow to the driver that was never received. Uber makes the driver Uber take Uber as a deduction. In fact the driver is paid a commission. Uber should be taking the driver's commision as a deduction - not the driver taking Uber as a deduction. The passenger is Uber's client and the passenger pays Uber -not the driver. Uber then pays a fee/commission to the driver for services rendered. The 1099 that Uber provided states a cash flow to the driver that was not received. Tell that to your banker!
> Last year Uber provided correct 1099s. This is an accounting thst creates a different cssh flow picture for Uber. Talk to an accountant and your banker


This. /\/\/\


----------



## Oc_DriverX

UbertoTheStars said:


> Did anyone read this??? I think you will find all you need to understand. What Uber is sending to many drivers is actually based on IRS standards.
> 
> Search Google for 'Understanding-Your-1099-K'
> 
> Many drivers fail to understand that relationship with Uber based nohow things occur. But we ARE independent and as such Uber functions as a 'merchant service provider' for us. We pay them a fee for access to their software, leads, reporting, credit card processing. I hate how they treat us and I have been protesting here in Florida about the way the dropped the rates but I do understand the relationship and their obligatio


Jupiter has it right. If Uber was truly just processing our credit card transactions, then the customer statements would show a transaction with the driver and not Uber/Raiser. If the customers were truly OUR customers, wouldn't we be able to know their full name and be able to contact them via email or phone? We can't. But Uber has their full names and contact information. And the charges that hit their credit card statements are from Uber.

They are Uber's customers. Uber is not providing us with credit card processing services. They pay us to provide rides for their customers. They should just give us a single 1099 Misc showing the amount they have deposited in our account. It is simply Uber's cost for moving the customer. It should be that simple. There should not be any of this 1099K bullshit.


----------



## Pablo750

I had an accident and Uber pay for my car repairs, but I had to pay 1,000 deductible and stop working 45 days waiting for my car. uber insurance didn't pay for rental or any other expense, how can I claim the 1000 on my income tax?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Pablo750 said:


> I had an accident and Uber pay for my car repairs, but I had to pay 1,000 deductible and stop working 45 days waiting for my car. uber insurance didn't pay for rental or any other expense, how can I claim the 1000 on my income tax?


I believe you can claim this as a casualty loss on your Schedule A. But I'm not a tax pro, so let's see what they say.......
There may be further amounts subtracted, and your AGI may affect it. Not sure about car rental and income loss, if any.


----------



## Oc_DriverX

Older Chauffeur said:


> I believe you can claim this as a casualty loss on your Schedule A. But I'm not a tax pro, so let's see what they say.......
> There may be further amounts subtracted, and your AGI may affect it. Not sure about car rental and income loss, if any.


Of course, if he isn't already using itemized deductions, then this wouldn't help him. He would be better off trying to claim the loss on his schedule C.

From IRS Pub 547 (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p547/ar02.html#en_US_2015_publink1000225230)

*"Cost of cleaning up or making repairs.* The cost of repairing damaged property isn't part of a casualty loss. Neither is the cost of cleaning up after a casualty. But you can use the cost of cleaning up or of making repairs after a casualty as a measure of the decrease in FMV if you meet all the following conditions.


The repairs are actually made.

The repairs are necessary to bring the property back to its condition before the casualty.

The amount spent for repairs isn't excessive.

The repairs take care of the damage only.

The value of the property after the repairs is not, due to the repairs, more than the value of the property before the casualty."


----------



## naplestom75

I didn't even look at my 1099 yet. Are you serious?


----------



## PTB

Tristan Zier said:


> 1. Technically Uber is acting as a lead gen / third party payment network for your own driving services business, so they are correct with the 1099-K. Even though they aren't required to send one unless you make over $20K and receive over 200 payouts, they did because it helped people remember to pay taxes. Otherwise a lot of drivers thought they didn't have to file taxes, which is incredibly incorrect and would have led to a lot of audits.
> 
> 2. Again, not the wrong form. If they included the safe rider fee and commissions on the 1099-K, you'll just include those as income and an equal offsetting expense (under Commissions on Schedule C). Thus, you aren't taxed on those amounts because it nets to $0.
> 
> 3. See 2. You aren't taxed on the total amount "collected". You're taxed on your business profit, which is earnings - expenses (including commissions).
> 
> 4. This doesn't matter. You are running your own "driving services business", and your work through UberX, XL, and Black is all part of that. You record all of those earnings and expenses on one Schedule C.
> 
> 5/6. Again, not necessarily correct.
> 
> You can learn more about what you need to know for taxes as a rideshare driver through our guide at **SITE NO LONGER EXISTS**/guides/ridesharing


EDD (Employment Education Departmnet) is asking to report the GROSS earnings on the claim form.
How would you calculate that number ?

https://help.uber.com/driving-and-d...t?nodeId=b8333287-cd5f-44fa-8267-486a895bede9


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Tristan Zier left the forum a long time ago. My guess is that the EDD wants your gross, after Uber fees and commissions have been deducted, but someone at the EDD ought to be able to answer that question definitively.
You could also pm @UberTaxPro, or start a new thread. This one is five years old.


----------



## MissAnne

1099-K is for income if you made more than $20k in the year.....1099-MISC is for bonuses you got paid over $600 in the year.


----------



## LADryver

Bob Reynolds said:


> I got the e-mail today with the 1099-K download. Uber appears to have their tax reporting system set up incorrectly.
> 
> 1. Uber is sending a 1099-K which is the 1099 for payment card and third party network transactions. That is the version that Paypal or Amazon would send to you if you sold things on eBay or Amazon. In those cases you set the price of your item. Paypal or Amazon sellers are not considered an independent contractor. They are considered merchants. That is not the correct 1099 for someone that provides services as an independent contractor. The correct form would be the 1099-MISC.
> 
> 2. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, they are including the total amount their business collected from the rider including the safe rider fee, commissions, etc. The 1099-K does require a company to report the gross amount collected, but again this is the wrong form for an independent contractor.
> 
> 3. Because Uber is reporting on the incorrect 1099-K form, the amount shown is not the actual amount that the Uber driver received while performing services as an independent contractor. The amount shown is actually 20%-30% higher than what was actually paid to the independent contractor. This is going to be very confusing for the IRS, the drivers and the accountants that prepare the tax returns. It also falsely inflates the income of the Uber driver.
> 
> 4. Because Uber fees do vary depending upon whether the fare is a UberX, UberXL, Uber Black or Uber Taxi, it is impossible to know the true amount paid to the driver from the 1099K from a simple calculation. It will require that the driver print out each and every weekly pay stub and subtract the real amounts paid from the amount shown on the 1099K in order to file a tax return.
> 
> 5. If the correct 1099-Misc form had been used (which is the correct form for an independent contractor) then the actual amounts paid to the drivers have been provided on the 1099 statement.
> 
> 6. The drivers have no control over the pricing charged to the rider. The drivers are not able to set their own pricing. The drivers have no control over the safe ride fee that Uber determines the rider will pay. The drivers have no control over the cut that Uber takes. The drivers are not merchants. The drivers are independent contractors.


You follow the cues for the return. Yes they are doing that. You have to also unless you want to have troublesome issues up ahead. You will not be taxed on the gross. Your numbers will be right. But you have to take the long road.


----------



## AllenChicago

PTB said:


> EDD (Employment Education Departmnet) is asking to report the GROSS earnings on the claim form.
> How would you calculate that number ?
> 
> https://help.uber.com/driving-and-d...t?nodeId=b8333287-cd5f-44fa-8267-486a895bede9


Just opened mine today and see that Lyft sent me a 1099K. Would be nice to make the money they're showing for the rides I gave in 2019, but this is way out the ball park! They didn't do this last year. 3 years ago, it would have been easy to just subtract out Lyft's cut of 20%.

But now it's..61 cents a mile / 21 cents a minute I'm paid. Can't imagine how much Lyft kept in 2019. I'll just guess 40% is what I paid Lyft, and let that be that.



AllenChicago said:


> Just opened mine today and see that Lyft sent me a 1099K. Would be nice to make the money they're showing for the rides I gave in 2019, but this is way out the ball park! They didn't do this last year. 3 years ago, it would have been easy to just subtract out Lyft's cut of 20%.
> 
> But now it's..61 cents a mile / 21 cents a minute I'm paid. Can't imagine how much Lyft kept in 2019. I'll just guess 40% is what I paid Lyft, and let that be that.


UPDATE: I logged into my online Lyft account and found a document that shows the expenses and fees Lyft deducted. It's amazing (and disgusting) how much money is now kept from every fare! No wonder the company stopped showing us how much the passenger paid, a couple years ago.


----------

