# Finally gave in to pressure



## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

Cant wait to see what creative way they use next to screw drivers


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/24...es-that-now-your-tips-will-go-to-delivery-wo/
Generally speaking, how they've been doing it has worked out fine for me.

Curious to see how it will play out now.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for. My concern is that we are going to see a sharp decline in the amount of the "guarantee" offered or the elimination of it altogether (as in Uber Eats). While I get peoples objection to taking the tips when looking at the breakdown more often then not DD was subsidizing to get the "guarantee" amount.

I have done many DD and UE deliveries from the exact same restaurant. On similar deliveries DD's pay guarantee was almost always significantly higher than UE payout. The difference mainly being "Tips". While you got screwed on UE when the customer doesn't tip at least you got the higher amount on DD guaranteed. "Actual" tips will obviously become much more important on DD.

For example, Last night I did 1 UE delivery why I was doing DD deliveries on the schedule. The delivery I did was fine and the customer was very nice but as of now I have a $0.00 tip from them!!! (still hoping one comes in). I would have made $2-3 more on DD.

It will be interesting to see how this works but I suspect we will begin to see much lower guarantees.:frown:


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Seamus said:


> It will be interesting to see how this works but I suspect we will begin to see much lower guarantees.:frown:


My thoughts as well, which would further prove that customer tips were often used to inflate "guaranteed" amounts.


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

I prefer mileage & time pay like uber eats.. even with no boost Uber eats payouts aren't that much different then doordash guarantee except they are without tip... Throw in a 1.6 boost and doordash pay model cannot compete at all


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

Be careful what you wish for. I actually like the current model since I dont have to rely on tips. At the end of the day I make more on DD than any of the other apps, whether they steal or not. Ever since DD has been showing pay breakdown its crazy to see how many non tippers there are. Its going to be interesting to see how they get dashers to accept all of these non tip orders now. I know a good amount of DD customers stopped tipping after hearing about DD "stealing tips". That damage is likely permanent like how UE made customers think tip is included.


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

WAHN said:


> My thoughts as well, which would further prove that customer tips were often used to inflate "guaranteed" amounts.


 I would be OK with the current pay model if they raised the minimum base pay to $3 get screwed too many times at lunch with $5 guarantee and $4 tip


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

downeybrook said:


> I prefer mileage & time pay like uber eats.. even with no boost Uber eats payouts aren't that much different then doordash guarantee except they are without tip... Throw in a 1.6 boost and doordash pay model cannot compete at all


If you have 1.6 boost then thats great but the problem is that most people dont. I have 1.1-1.2 and you never know what your promotions will look like tomorrow with UE


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

downeybrook said:


> I prefer mileage & time pay like uber eats.. even with no boost Uber eats payouts aren't that much different then doordash guarantee except they are without tip... Throw in a 1.6 boost and doordash pay model cannot compete at all


Only works if you are actually getting boosts. In my market we haven't seen a boost in the last several months! None, zero, zippo! Occasionally we will get a minimum guarantee.


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

uberboy1212 said:


> If you have 1.6 boost then thats great but the problem is that most people dont. I have 1.1-1.2 and you never know what your promotions will look like tomorrow with UE


The biggest problem with doordash pay model is $1 per mile rate... That's how they really grew so fast is screwing over the drivers on long distance trips


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

downeybrook said:


> The biggest problem with doordash pay model is $1 per mile rate... That's how they really grew so fast is screwing over the drivers on long distance trips


They show you the mileage and pay though and give you the opttion to accept or decline. I know they send some BS offers but all you have to do is decline.


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

downeybrook said:


> The biggest problem with doordash pay model is $1 per mile rate... That's how they really grew so fast is screwing over the drivers on long distance trips


 If I do post mates and Uber eats together with their system of sending you to restaurants close by and paying actual mileage I can average $1.50-$2 per mile if I just do doordash I can't even average a $1 per mile


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

downeybrook said:


> The biggest problem with doordash pay model is $1 per mile rate... That's how they really grew so fast is screwing over the drivers on long distance trips


What do you mean $1 per mile rate?

Not too many long distance trips where I'm at, depending on your definition of long distance.


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

uberboy1212 said:


> They show you the mileage and pay though and give you the opttion to accept or decline. I know they send some BS offers but all you have to do is decline.


 Yeah that means some days you have to decline 80% of them if you want to keep your mileage rate at a acceptable level... Then you can't take enough per hour



WAHN said:


> What do you mean $1 per mile rate?
> 
> Not too many long distance trips where I'm at, depending on your definition of long distance. :smiles:


 How much money you make per mile driven so if you drive a 100 miles and you make $200 that is $2 per mile to me that is the most important metric about this job


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## Ride or Die (Aug 16, 2018)

This scares the heck outta me. Everyone's area is different but in my market DD contributions to the guaranteed amount was comparable to what GH would pay. Now I'm afraid we're about to get get screwed hard.


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

downeybrook said:


> Yeah that means some days you have to decline 80% of them if you want to keep your mileage rate at a acceptable level... Then you can't take enough per hour


I don't know how it is everywhere else but I don't accept any BS offers and I maintain a 90% acceptance. I rarely get BS offers any more it's almost like they figured out I would never accept them anyway


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

downeybrook said:


> How much money you make per mile driven so if you drive a 100 miles and you make $200 that is $2 per mile to me that is the most important metric about this job


Yeah, that's how I like to figure it as well and why for now I almost exclusively do delivery over rideshare.

Your post that I quoted made it seem like DD had some sort of rate based on $1 per mile, but your follow up post(made while I was replying :wink clarified what you meant.

Without peak pay, I normally make $1.20 or better.

Not enough UE where I work and GH is also not available where I prefer to work, so DD it is for now.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

downeybrook said:


> Yeah that means some days you have to decline 80% of them if you want to keep your mileage rate at a acceptable level... Then you can't take enough per hour
> 
> 
> How much money you make per mile driven so if you drive a 100 miles and you make $200 that is $2 per mile to me that is the most important metric about this job


I definitely agree with the metric. I used to do primarily Uber X and Lyft and since the surges are nothing like they used to be and because of all the miles you do, the revenue per mile is way higher with food delivery over Uber X base rate rides.

Because of the revenue per mile difference, I have migrated to doing much more food delivery and basically only surge Uber X rides.


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

Ride or Die said:


> This scares the heck outta me. Everyone's area is different but in my market DD contributions to the guaranteed amount was comparable to what GH would pay. Now I'm afraid we're about to get get screwed hard.
> View attachment 338240


Exactly, DD has been the only reliable one here for a while now. Only problem lately has been picking up blocks but at least you know it wont be flooded with drivers when youre dashing. GH isnt even an option any more here since they cut pay . GH decided to steal everything but the tip. If you dont get lucky with with tips on GH then you're not making anything but their shitty hourly guarantee.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

uberboy1212 said:


> Exactly, DD has been the only reliable one here for a while now. Only problem lately has been picking up blocks but at least you know it wont be flooded with drivers when youre dashing. GH isnt even an option any more here since they cut pay . GH decided to steal everything but the tip. If you dont get lucky with with tips on GH then you're not making anything but their shitty hourly guarantee.


GH has become a joke in my market. They try to send you on 20-30 minute pick ups. Two weeks ago I got a TB "offer" that was actually 40 minutes away! Its not like I'm in a rural area, I'm in the NYC suburbs! Since their rate cut I tried 1 night and it sucked. Haven't even turned the app on since. Basically DD and UE now with far more money on DD. I'm afraid it will become more like UE which is not a good thing with no boost or promo.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Your
Market
May
Vary



The game we all play.

At least we know the end game.

Eventually, they'll all suck equally.

On an unrelated note, my bucket list is almost complete. 










Just got this email from DD:

Dear ,

After a lot of consideration, I announced last night that we will be changing the Dasher pay model. I want to email you directly to share why I made this decision and to ensure you know what to expect in the days ahead.

In 2017, we built a pay model to prioritize transparency and consistent earnings. We thought we were doing the right thing by boosting a Dasher's earnings when a customer left a small tip or no tip at all.

While we continue to hear from Dashers that the model generally works for you, to serve Dashers well over the long term, we also have to serve the consumers who use our platform. I did not think that we could continue to do right by you if there were some customers who felt like their tip did not matter.

So what does this mean for you? It means we will soon announce a new pay model where any customer tip will be independent of DoorDash's contribution for that delivery. It also means that we'll need your input as we develop other details. Stay tuned for ways to continue to have your perspective heard.

Our goal is to get 1% better everyday and to serve our entire community, including the Dasher community, to the best of our ability. These beliefs have led us to improvements in the past and they serve as our guide for the future.

With your help, we will get there.

Onward,
Tony


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

uberboy1212 said:


> Exactly, DD has been the only reliable one here for a while now. Only problem lately has been picking up blocks but at least you know it wont be flooded with drivers when youre dashing. GH isnt even an option any more here since they cut pay . GH decided to steal everything but the tip. If you dont get lucky with with tips on GH then you're not making anything but their shitty hourly guarantee.


Disclaimer 
My current allocation for my deliveries usually ends up being 
40% uber eats
40 % doordash 
20 % postmates


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Hmmmmmm........where will they screw you next though ?


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

ANT 7 said:


> Hmmmmmm........where will they screw you next though ?












I guess, the thing to do, is be smarter than these app companies. Most of them are just kids anyway.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

WAHN said:


> I did not think that we could continue to do right by you if there were some customers who felt like their tip did not matter.


...and somewhat subtly buried in that letter is the crux of the issue. DoorDash customers have figured out that there is no point in tipping because the driver gets paid the same regardless of whether or not they tip. Why tip the driver if the app company will do it for me if I don't? The problem is that DoorDash's pay model depends on the customers tipping so that DoorDash can pay the drivers less out of their own pockets. Otherwise they end up paying the drivers more than they get paid for the deliveries. So DoorDash needs to change their pay model to stay afloat. Given this, the rest is PR tactics. They need to roll out their change in a way that doesn't tick off the drivers. How to do that? Well, drivers have been complaining about how we "steal" tips, so lets tell them that we listened to them and we're not going to do that any more. That's pretty easy PR.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

The problem I have, every time any shareride company change their pay structure, drivers *always *gets less pay.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

I’m taking a group photo of all UE driver’s, now just bend over and say Uber Dick Me.


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## Teksaz (Mar 16, 2015)

Yeah, this is a little worrisome. I've never had a big problem with the way it is now because I know from experience it can ALWAYS get worse. Uber being the prime example. Anyway I guess we'll have to wait and see. 
Obviously on the current pay model I finally conquered the elusive $200 dollar day yesterday.


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## Z129 (May 30, 2018)

Here is the message I got this morning from DD. Should I be bothered that DD doesn't know my name?

_Dear ,

After a lot of consideration, I announced last night that we will be changing the Dasher pay model. I want to email you directly to share why I made this decision and to ensure you know what to expect in the days ahead.

In 2017, we built a pay model to prioritize transparency and consistent earnings. We thought we were doing the right thing by boosting a Dasher's earnings when a customer left a small tip or no tip at all.

While we continue to hear from Dashers that the model generally works for you, to serve Dashers well over the long term, we also have to serve the consumers who use our platform. I did not think that we could continue to do right by you if there were some customers who felt like their tip did not matter.

So what does this mean for you? It means we will soon announce a new pay model where any customer tip will be independent of DoorDash's contribution for that delivery. It also means that we'll need your input as we develop other details. Stay tuned for ways to continue to have your perspective heard.

Our goal is to get 1% better everyday and to serve our entire community, including the Dasher community, to the best of our ability. These beliefs have led us to improvements in the past and they serve as our guide for the future.

With your help, we will get there.

Onward,
Tony_


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Z129 said:


> Should I be bothered that DD doesn't know my name?


LOL, mine didn't have a name either. ?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

WAHN said:


> LOL, mine didn't have a name either. ?


Wow I should be honored then that mine included my name! LOL


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Our area is still $6.50/run. So it works out well for me. Ditch the long pickups and drop offs to dead areas, and mix it into doing standard Uber/Lyft. Helps fill time and keep me as busy as possible. And most of my deliveries DD supplements. If they paid $1 for each run + full tip. I would hardly ever be at $6.50.

As with all these gig jobs. They keep costs to customers low by taking it from the drivers. Who knows if that will continue years down the road or not. Have to learn the game and play it smart to stay profitable.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

peteyvavs said:


> I'm taking a group photo of all UE driver's, now just bend over and say Uber Dick Me.


LUBER


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

This is a good theory.



> They are changing the pay model because they realized over time their customer's tip behavior would change and result in a negative financial outcome for DD.
> When more customers tip outside the app, or stop tipping all together (both of which would happen over time with the old pay model), the old pay model causes DD to naturally inherit a larger burden of drivers' compensation.
> This inevitable larger burden is what DD is trying to avoid.
> It had nothing to do with whether or not drivers liked the old model. It's the fact that existing tipping customers didn't like it, and would become non-tipping customers (or outside the app tipping customers) that motivated DD to change.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash/comments/chd28n


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

downeybrook said:


> Cant wait to see what creative way they use next to screw drivers
> View attachment 338236


follow up as always to verify .


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Seamus said:


> Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for. My concern is that we are going to see a sharp decline in the amount of the "guarantee" offered or the elimination of it altogether (as in Uber Eats). While I get peoples objection to taking the tips when looking at the breakdown more often then not DD was subsidizing to get the "guarantee" amount.
> 
> I have done many DD and UE deliveries from the exact same restaurant. On similar deliveries DD's pay guarantee was almost always significantly higher than UE payout. The difference mainly being "Tips". While you got screwed on UE when the customer doesn't tip at least you got the higher amount on DD guaranteed. "Actual" tips will obviously become much more important on DD.
> 
> ...


I agree more or less with this. I do both UE and DD. I work in an area where many UE customers tip. but I think DD guarantee amounts will still even out or top what I make with UE.

My theory is that DD will change their model to something like UE's. Customers will pay a higher base fee, and so will start to tip less on average. In areas where customers tend to tip, earnings may even out or increase slightly. In areas where they don't, earnings could drop. I think the main beneficiary will be the customers, at least the tippers. Tippers will no longer be 'subsidizing' cheap deliveries for those who don't, which I assume is how it worked under the old system. That's my theory anyway.


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

They should just have the customers tip after they receive the order. That way the driver can actually earn their tips. It really makes no sense for the customer to tip before. No ones accepting non tip orders unless maybe if there’s an hourly guarantee like GH.


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

Doordashes pay structure makes 0 sense it says based on time, distance, size of order, whether if dasher needs to place order and such. But they never break down any of those in the payout. I've orders that are 20 miles away for $7 and orders 2 miles for $7. I would actually like to see the exact breakdown of this. They need to payout a base pay, miles, time and tip, and show the amount before you accept bc non tippers imo shouldn't receive food. Like $1 base, $.50/mile, $.10 min + tip so a 6 mile trip that takes 25 mins would be $1+$3+$2.50+tip. Which I think is fair but they will prolly cut all those in half


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## downeybrook (Feb 19, 2018)

downeybrook said:


> Disclaimer
> My current allocation for my deliveries usually ends up being
> 40% uber eats
> 40 % doordash
> 20 % postmates





uberboy1212 said:


> They should just have the customers tip after they receive the order. That way the driver can actually earn their tips. It really makes no sense for the customer to tip before. No ones accepting non tip orders unless maybe if there's an hourly guarantee like GH.


Now that I have given it some thought this change doesn't really matter if the customer pre tips and they're using a non transparent algorithm...they can still pay whatever they want and make it look like the customer tipped on top of it.....


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

The way the other gig economy types have gone. I would assume that the guarantee will be low and the driver is hoping for a tip... All flat fee.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Uber1111uber said:


> Like $1 base, $.50/mile, $.10 min + tip


So you want a pay model that pays less than Uber Eats???


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## part-timer (Oct 5, 2015)

The minimum in my area is 6 bucks and I turn almost all of those down. If that goes down I guess I'll just have to get back on the main stage and shake my ass for singles.....


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

part-timer said:


> If that goes down I guess I'll just have to get back on the main stage and shake my ass for singles.....


You should do that while making deliveries. Give a new meaning to double dipping.


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> So you want a pay model that pays less than Uber Eats???


I didnt mean those exact numbers just something that actually makes sense. Uber eats pays ok where I'm at if they actually showed the restaurants before it could be very very good bc u basically have to decline every McDonald's order bc they never go far and have to wait


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## Ajaywill (Jul 4, 2017)

After reading all this about the recent DD shenanigans, I thought of this.....

Print up some business cards that say something like: Want to make sure 100% of your tip goes to the delivery person? Tip in cash. Thanks

...and place one in every order that you deliver.


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## DiceyDan (Jun 9, 2016)

Everyone's area is different and just know for people to get the higher side they screw the other side. Doordash made an impact because they got everyone hooked on these extra pays they were gonna take away when they dominated. My area is long distance deliveries and almost EVERYTHING is 5.00. Most of my tips are 3-5, I make nothing with this model. UE I make almost 2.5x's without any gimmicks. This scum of a guy has everyone drinking the koolaid. He was confronted back with Instacart and refused to change. He has a lawsuit now and got caught. They need to pay back what they stole.


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## Toby2 (Jun 16, 2018)

I bet any new pay structure will include time and mileage before pick up. Their going to watch for the second app deliveries like GH is doing now.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

downeybrook said:


> The biggest problem with doordash pay model is $1 per mile rate... That's how they really grew so fast is screwing over the drivers on long distance trips


I'd give somebody's ass for $1/mile. GH's new rate is 22¢ in my market.



uberboy1212 said:


> I don't know how it is everywhere else but I don't accept any BS offers and I maintain a 90% acceptance. I rarely get BS offers any more it's almost like they figured out I would never accept them anyway


I'm trying something new to go along with GH's new pay structure: I'm refusing anything under $5. Works so far. Although I got a $5.04 Panda offer today. 

I'm down to 88% and Pro instead of Premier, but I feel better not taking $3 deliveries. It's kind of sad, with the old $3.50+CF miles, sub-&5 offers were nonexistent. Now they're about 10% of the offers.


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