# Woman stunned by $189 Uber bill



## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Another stupid passenger. I hope the driver wasn't impacted by Uber's caving in. Smh

Woman stunned by $189 Uber ride bill
http://www.abcactionnews.com/money/...our-money/woman-stunned-by-189-uber-ride-bill


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## CantThrowCantCatch (Sep 17, 2015)

Had a few paxs tell me about accidentally choosing XL and being surprised by their total.


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## CDavisarebel (Nov 8, 2015)

So now theres a notification for riders to wait til surge ends? And hopefully they refunded money out of their own pockets and not the drivers.


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## krytenTX (May 7, 2015)

So, she had to type in the surge before it was accepted, yet now she complains? Probably too drunk or stupid to realize what the surge is. I hope the driver gets the full fair.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

The in-app fare estimator factors in surge. The first thing I did as a passenger was see how much the ride would cost before I requested the ride. It's not rocket science, the button is in plain sight.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

andaas said:


> The in-app fare estimator factors in surge. The first thing I did as a passenger was see how much the ride would cost before I requested the ride. It's not rocket science, the button is in plain sight.


You're missing the big picture. First, you do something ill advised that you're warned about before hand. THEN you complain after and raise a stink. THAT way not ONLY do you get your money back - as this woman did - you get on TV. THAT is the lesson here. How could you miss that?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

There is a reliability issue here. They take her in for $30 and home for $180 in this case. That is almost extortion. The whole idea of Uber's marketing scheme is that the town has a redundancy of cars and a car is shortly on the way. As an Uber driver, do you feel a drunk pax is likely to be able to rate you fairly? How about put the pin in the right place? How many drivers drive to the pin wait five minutes and the pax never even come out? They could be so drunk they didn't even remember booking the car.

Everyone has had those kinds of people at night. Some of those people, had they known it would be so much to get home, might not have gone out in the first place, but felt stuck. All the passengers see is a number with an X behind it. Some of those people may have had zero idea what they paid to get in to town. That is common and Uber wants it that way. If you ddidn't bother to look to see what it cost going in, what is 5x of what you never looked at? There is no reason Uber can't put a dollar estimate on there.

Do not underestimate buyers remorse here. 

I am not sure it is in an Uber driver's best interest to defend this kind of price gouging practice. How many drivers on this thread still work in towns with basement ratings? The promise of getting one of these rides on a Friday or Saturday evening may be all some drives have left as motivation to drive at all. The base rate can be that low. 

What we don't know is, how many miles was that first ride which cost $30. Was it a 30 mile ride or 12? It is all screwed up. For an Uber driver not to have empathy for this woman's bill may be due to their own frustration with driving in a market with impossible base rates.

Try not to be too critical of a woman going home for $180 when it cost her $30 on the way in if you are a driver donating your car to Travi's cause at $.75/mile or even $1.20/mile...... Travis shouldn't even have the privilege of seting the rates of driver owned cars.

These huge surge prices are part of the problem. If drivers want sustainable rates, they are likely to need to give up the crazy surge fares. The high surge fares have nothing to do with anything other than they make it possible to keep drivers active where they would otherwise walk away. 

As a driver, getting a high surge run is similar to picking a winning rub off lottery ticket. It is the same thing. It keeps a driver hooked on driving while most of the time driving for peanuts. 

I don't know if Uber or TNC can function at all without the wild swings in prices, but what this woman is complaining about is no more stupid that driving for $.85/mile and complaining about it or asking for change. It is the same seesaw, just a different seat for once.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Huberis said:


> There is a reliability issue here. They take her in for $30 and home for $180 in this case. That is almost extortion. The whole idea of Uber's marketing scheme is that the town has a redundancy of cars and a car is shortly on the way. As an Uber driver, do you feel a drunk pax is likely to be able to rate you fairly? How about put the pin in the right place? How many drivers drive to the pin wait five minutes and the pax never even come out? They could be so drunk they didn't even remember booking the car.
> 
> Everyone has had those kinds of people at night. Some of those people, had they known it would be so much to get home, might not have gone out in the first place, but felt stuck. All the passengers see is a number with an X behind it. Some of those people may have had zero idea what they paid to get in to town. That is common and Uber wants it that way. If you ddidn't bother to look to see what it cost going in, what is 5x of what you never looked at? There is no reason Uber can't put a dollar estimate on there.
> 
> ...


Nope. I have no sympathy. It SHOWS you how much the trip will cost. Too much for you? Wait. That surge will end. Grab a water and wait OR call a taxi and wait. Too impatient? That will cost you. Too drunk to read and comprehend numbers and not with anyone who is sober enough to either? You're about to learn a very expensive lesson about having TOO good a time. The surge actually DOES work the way its supposed to. It encourages more cars to come to an area of higher demand. More than once I stayed online longer because my area was surging when without it I'd have gone home and gone to bed.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

I roll my eyes at these stories because not one of the journalists ever bother to point out that the rider was an idiot because the app makes them type in the price multiplier and then gives them the estimate of the fare. there is no way the rider didn't know it would cost that much unless:

1. She was drunk, which she likely was.
2. The driver took her for a long ride in which case the ride history would show an inefficient route.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

D Town said:


> Nope. I have no sympathy. It SHOWS you how much the trip will cost. Too much for you? Wait. That surge will end. Grab a water and wait OR call a taxi and wait. Too impatient? That will cost you. Too drunk to read and comprehend numbers and not with anyone who is sober enough to either? You're about to learn a very expensive lesson about having TOO good a time. The surge actually DOES work the way its supposed to. It encourages more cars to come to an area of higher demand. More than once I stayed online longer because my area was surging when without it I'd have gone home and gone to bed.


It isn't always people simply coming home from the bars after a night of partying.

State College is a big college town. I have heard stories from students returning from home who were charged crazy dollars to get to the airport or megabus. They did not have the luxury of waiting it out until the surge dropped. that is not an example of reliable transportation at that point, it is extortion. One student said she paid $96 for a 6.5 mile trip to the airport. She had already committed to taking an Uber car to the port. Contrary to popular belief in the SC subforum, all the taxis were booked solid during the port/bus rush hours. At that point, those people had zero choice but to take the car at an insane price.

Also, during peak party times, you have people who simply need rides to get to work, or home from work, the ER..... to suggest everyone just needs to go in their corner and wait it out is self defeating.

The surge does not work half as well as Uber claims it does. For one, the high surge is largely enable and encouraged by way of the below cost base rates Uber typically runs 90% of the time. It is a completely neurotic process. The extraordinarily high surge rates are a major contributing factor in Uber's ability to keep base rates in mature markets at below operating costs for drivers.

The surge still isn't all that effective at doing as advertised in that despite all these complaints of extremely high fares being paid out, with respect to any individual chance of a driver actually getting one of those trips, what are their chances? How many of those a night or weekend is any one driver likely to get that kind of winning ticket to ride? If the surge worked as promised, the expected flood of drivers would then crush the surge for those very same drivers. That does happen. It is a handful of pax in mature markets who pay the price.

It is completely broken. Those extremely high surges come at a very high cost: your base rate. It justifies the horrible base rate. Uber does everything at can do to avoid being labeled a common carrier, this proves that if they should in fact serve the community in the way that a common carrier is expected to: they fail. It isn't limited to late night revelers who can afford to stay in the bar and have another Scotch while they wait for the rates to drop. That is a false assumption.

Finally, in terms of the numbers of 1x, 2x, 3x..... Many of the people I talk to right or wrong seem to have little practical understanding of how it works. They don't often know what the surge was when they booked for example. People just want to get home, this is just a different kind of BS to deal with.

I have talked to a couple Uber drivers suggest to me in person they believe surges are often fabricated anyway. Look at NYC, by Uber's own numbers, they have over 21,000 vetted drivers in the city. At their best hour on a Saturday evening, they can only get 1/3 of those drivers logged on. That is a peculiar figure, it doesn't speak directly to the isue at hand, but it is worth some thought.

The promise of a surge ride is like crack for drivers and enables them to put up with crap rates the rest of the time, or keeps them home neurotically waiting for a surge notice, with the hope they will actually get a call on surge.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Huberis said:


> It isn't always people simply coming home from the bars after a night of partying.
> 
> State College is a big college town. I have heard stories from students returning from home who were charged crazy dollars to get to the airport or megabus. They did not have the luxury of waiting it out until the surge dropped. that is not an example of reliable transportation at that point, it is extortion. One student said she paid $96 for a 6.5 mile trip to the airport. She had already committed to taking an Uber car to the port. Contrary to popular belief in the SC subforum, all the taxis were booked solid during the port/bus rush hours. At that point, those people had zero choice but to take the car at an insane price.
> 
> ...


Not entirely without merit on the reason for the surge. It COULD be that its simply part of a justification to drive down base rates however I don't think they need a real reason. They just do whatever the heck they want any how. Most drivers do figure out fairly quickly that they aren't making any money hence why so few make it more than a year.

NOW as for the poor student stuck with no other options...what exactly did they do a few years ago BEFORE Uber? They went from NO options to an expensive one if their counting on it - along with thousands and thousands of others at the same time potentially - to be there for them at the push of a button on the cheap. That's not how supply and demand works. TRUE if Uber paid a better base pay more good drivers would be willing to work for a much lower surge price - like me - and yes it sucks having to pay high surge prices HOWEVER if the options are between a high price and...NOTHING I'm going to take the high price not demand that someone lower my price. It'd be one thing if Uber drivers went around slashing bus and taxi cab tires the night before and THEN artificially increased their fare but you're talking about infrequent events that come a few times a year. Lastly, THE FARE IS NOT A SURPRISE. I just logged into the app on my phone. I put in the destination and you know what comes up? A fare estimate. Don't want to pay that? Find another way home. Someone else's poor planning or bad luck is not really Ubers problem. (Damn you for making me defend Uber...) Sorry, I'm not convinced I should feel sorry for the pax on this one.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

One way to look at it is from the perspective of the surge serves as a kind of trigger. In the grander scheme of things, the surge is caused by in imbalance of demand to available drivers. If the surge works as intended, the surge by design can't last. It mostly just serves to trigger a response from drivers so that they log on. Anyone given pax can get nailed, a small number of drivers will get their winning ticket. 

Mostly, people are only getting jerked around and most of your time is likely spent driving at a losing rate if you aren't able to afford the luxury of cherry picking. 

I can understand why drivers would defend the ability to grab a high surge ride. In the long run, it is the drivers who will pay the price. It isn't sustainable.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

D Town said:


> NOW as for the poor student stuck with no other options...what exactly did they do a few years ago BEFORE Uber?


I need to head out. I haven't been able to give your post the attention it deserves. That said, the students with respect to the busses and airports have had options. Even to this day, this would be one example where the local taxi companies more than give Uber a run for their money.

Taxis can be booked up to a week in advance, we can gang travelers on campus easily and effectively in the name of ease, efficiency and savings. It works. What doesn't work is if you wait until the last hour to get an Uber car and decide it is too pricey and then think you can call a taxi on the spot.

That does not work. Despite the claims on the local State College forum concerning the demise of the local taxi companies, if ever there was a time it is premature, such circumstances are it.

As for rates, Uber's rates are contrived. Rates are set by a so called partner who also signs up as many partners as he wishes. In complete disregard to the fact that the participating TNC company is completely isolated from the costs of operating the vehicles, they never the less are the ones setting the rates by which those partners drive at. Does Uber or Lyft ever recognize that drivers incur real costs to operate? I don't see evidence.

If you want to justify the high surge rates as reasonable, that is fine. The same kind of logic can be used to argue in favor of $.75/mile base rates.

I need to go to work. I will try to remember to read over your post with more attention when I get home this evening, take care.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Huberis said:


> I need to head out. I haven't been able to give your post the attention it deserves. That said, the students with respect to the busses and airports have had options. Even to this day, this would be one example where the local taxi companies more than give Uber a run for their money.
> 
> Taxis can be booked up to a week in advance, we can gang travelers on campus easily and effectively in the name of ease, efficiency and savings. It works. What doesn't work is if you wait until the last hour to get an Uber car and decide it is too pricey and then think you can call a taxi on the spot.
> 
> ...


By all means go make money. Trust that I am not offended that you'd rather be able to pay your bills than debate with me.

You're absolutely right about the cab industries strengths in this area. They can't be beat for planned events hands down.

I'm less arguing in favor of surges and MORE arguing that I don't feel sorry for people who don't plan accordingly. If the surges were capped at 1.5 and the base rate was raised to about $2.00 - $2.50 a mile I'd take it and be happy.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Here's what I'm curious about, can someone who is drunk legally enter into a contract with Uber. 

I mean, sure, the app said there was a surge, but was the person ordering the ride sober enough to realize that? In any other type of business this wouldn't be a valid contract.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

What that woman feels for the huge bill is same as what we feel for minimum fare non-surge trips. Uber is needlessly creating a medium of confrontation between pax and drivers.

That $30.00 initial trip probably was subsidized by the driver due to low cost of uber trying to kill all competition.

No one is happy from this setup. Rates should be more reasonable and surge will not happen that much as there will be more drivers available at all times.


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

Over charged passengers receive free complimentary Vaseline.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

andaas said:


> The in-app fare estimator factors in surge. The first thing I did as a passenger was see how much the ride would cost before I requested the ride. It's not rocket science, the button is in plain sight.


You would be quite surprised that not everyone is a rocket scientist like yourself, it's an app on a phone how hard can it be to order a car, not everyone is smartphone savvy, especially females, not all but many are not. It takes sticker shock "like above" for them to figure things out.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

ORT said:


> You would be quite surprised that not everyone is a rocket scientist like yourself, it's an app on a phone how hard can it be to order a car, not everyone is smartphone savvy, especially females, not all but many are not. It takes sticker shock "like above" for them to figure things out.


Really man? You're saying they're smart enough to download the app, figure out how to order an Uber, smart enough to read the info about ETA and driver name, but somehow the stupid kicks in when the price popped up about how much their fare would cost before they even confirmed the ride request?


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

D Town said:


> Really man? You're saying they're smart enough to download the app, figure out how to order an Uber, smart enough to read the info about ETA and driver name, but somehow the stupid kicks in when the price popped up about how much their fare would cost before they even confirmed the ride request?


Exactly, lol.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> What that woman feels for the huge bill is same as what we feel for minimum fare non-surge trips. Uber is needlessly creating a medium of confrontation between pax and drivers.
> 
> That $30.00 initial trip probably was subsidized by the driver due to low cost of uber trying to kill all competition.
> 
> No one is happy from this setup. Rates should be more reasonable and surge will not happen that much as there will be more drivers available at all times.


This is an important concern you bring up.

D Town, I am going to suggest we are mostly on the same page. From my personal perspective, I like to think of the construct as a kind of seesaw. When rates are extraordinarily low, Uber is protected from external disruption. They are also protected from internal disruption as well, it becomes impossible for an Uber driver to undercut Uber and risk running a pax off app. An Uber driver has no liability insurance, Isn't going to run the call off app for less than base rate and the guy logged on twenty feet away is ready to be booked. At very high rates, no driver is likely to be able to extort more money from a pax than the surge is getting from them.

It is really very interesting. Uber rates, as a market matures seems to want to waver between two extremes, or at least that is the appearance. Not every driver needs to get a high surge ride to keep them interested. What a wild dynamic.

I read the range of rates/limits you shared. That seems reasonable. I feel the individual drivers should be able to set their own rates based on the exact vehicle they drive and how selective they are willing to be about driving.

For example (this is off the cuff, not much time spent, just for thought), A commission could set an acceptable range of rates/mile. A driver may be willing to commit to driving at the lower end of the rate spectrum. All drivers committed to drive at the lowest permitted rate can log on and drive during periods of low demand.

Then, should demand increase, as the demand increases, other drivers who expressed a willingness only to drive at higher rates, would then be allowed to drive alongside the group of drivers who were willing to work at lower rates. As demand was met, and the perceived need to surge dropped, those drivers more intent on cherry picking would not be given calls as the rates returned to normal.

The idea might be that you could set the number of drivers willing to drive for the lowest rates, set the number of that possible group of drivers fairly low such that it shows respect for the lower volume of calls. You could then have a group of drivers willing to drive at 2X perhaps twice the size of the 1X group, the 3X group could be double the size of the 2X group.

The idea is that if the demand never gets to warrant a 3X surge, those people wouldn't have the ability to log on and drive. You would need larger numbers of those higher paying groups for obvious reasons.

That is just an exercise of thought. I am not suggesting that would work, but it is another way perhaps of looking at the system. Uber basically turned the accepted model on its head by divorcing itself from the cost of vehicle ownership. This is just an attempt to have some fun and see what it would take to turn Uber's own model on its head.

Cheers.


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## Lack9133 (Mar 26, 2015)

I love how people say "grab a taxi" if you don't like the price. I like most drivers I know, drive for both taxi and TNC's. When Uber starts surcharging, drivers ditch their taxi's for the higher paying prices of Uber and Lyft therefor leaving the public with limited taxi supply. This limited supply then puts customers between a rock and a hard place of either paying the surcharge or facing extremely long wait time for a taxi since very few are still driving for the lower rate. Usually this causes Uber and Lyft demand to spike even further leading to a higher surcharge and even more drivers ditching their taxi's to pick up the higher paying TNC trips. The only time it ends is when everyone is finally home and demand drops to zero.

While it works well for us drivers, when Uber is surcharging, passengers only option is Uber surcharging or the city bus.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Lack9133 said:


> While it works well for us drivers, when Uber is surcharging, passengers only option is Uber surcharging or the city bus.


I'm actually fine with riding the bus. Made it through college on buses, trains, and on foot way before Uber. I don't understand people's hate of public transit.


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## Lack9133 (Mar 26, 2015)

D Town said:


> I'm actually fine with riding the bus. Made it through college on buses, trains, and on foot way before Uber. I don't understand people's hate of public transit.


I'm not talking down on the bus, trains or other public transportation at all. It's a great service. It's more of a general comment that telling people to take a taxi when surcharging is in effect is generally not an option.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Lack9133 said:


> I'm not talking down on the bus, trains or other public transportation at all. It's a great service. It's more of a general comment that telling people to take a taxi when surcharging is in effect is generally not an option.


Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying you were talking it down, its just a general perception thing that public transit is for poor/homeless people. You provided some great info. I didn't think about taxi drivers switching over to Uber or Lyft when surges hit the area thus further drying up available taxis. An interesting bit of info to keep in mind.


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