# Riders Don't Know Ratings-- Tell them



## Matthew David

I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.

Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)

In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)

Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.

Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.

Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.


----------



## AuxCordBoston

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


And does it work?


----------



## Fishchris

I think this is a great idea.... "except" for myself anyway, driving mostly at night, nobody would ever see this sign "unless" I add it as a screen shot on my tablet, which I think I will be getting in the next couple days....

But hey, looking closer, I'm wondering in 4, 3, 2, and 1 should read any different ??? I'm thinking, they should all says, "Driver should be deactivated".... Just to drive home the point, that anything less than 5 stars, will eventually get you deactivated.... and is basically all the same...
Make sense ?

I think my sign will read:

5 star: Anywhere from just acceptable, to over the top awesome !

4 star or below: Driver should be deactivated.


----------



## steveK2016

Technically, anything 4 and below means they believe the driver should be deactivated.

Here's my Rider Rating Guide:

5 Star: I arrived at my destination in a timely manner
4 Star: Fire this driver tomorrow
3 Star: Fire this driver today
2 Star: Fire this driver immediately
1 Star: I'm in the hospital, my wallet is missing and there's an APB out for my driver


----------



## CelebDriver

Fishchris said:


> 5 star: Anywhere from just acceptable, to over the top awesome !
> 
> 4 star or below: Driver should be deactivated.


4 star or below: I would rather walk.


----------



## Lee239

I would make a sign that said
Uber Policy
5 start: I arrived at my destination alive and was able to rate the driver
4 stars or less river will be fired.


----------



## Matthew David

I went soft on 1-4.... but for 1-4 saying "fire this driver" is a solid approach. I'll tweak my sign to be more straight forward and blunt!

Take that Uber/Lyft scale!!! 

I had a 5.0 day (10 trips and number of 5 stars up went up by 10)

Will update again in a few days.


----------



## steveK2016

Matthew David said:


> I went soft on 1-4.... but for 1-4 saying "fire this driver" is a solid approach. I'll tweak my sign to be more straight forward and blunt!
> 
> Take that Uber/Lyft scale!!!
> 
> I had a 5.0 day (10 trips and number of 5 stars up went up by 10)
> 
> Will update again in a few days.


Don't put any notion of anything less than 5 Stars let your driver keep driving, 1-4 you want your driver fired. Giving a grey scale in between is relatively useless and redundant.


----------



## Matthew David

I wanted to also mention what spurred this.

I got my weekly report and did 72 trips that week with a 4.61 (previous weeks around 4.9-5.0)

28 rated trips and 25 5 star trips, but since I did 72 trips, what that means is 69 of the 72 were satisfied (96%) ... but if my average was always 4.6 I'd likely still have 95%+ satisfaction but walking the line of getting shutdown... How is that a bad thing Uber????


----------



## BoboBig

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


Hey Uber hire this man oops they won't because your slightly Ethical!


----------



## steveK2016

Matthew David said:


> I wanted to also mention what spurred this.
> 
> I got my weekly report and did 72 trips that week with a 4.61 (previous weeks around 4.9-5.0)
> 
> 28 rated trips and 25 5 star trips, but since I did 72 trips, what that means is 69 of the 72 were satisfied (96%) ... but if my average was always 4.6 I'd likely still have 95%+ satisfaction but walking the line of getting shutdown... How is that a bad thing Uber????


I'm a 4.92 driver and I got a 4.4 week once, it's all crap.


----------



## Coachman

Matthew David said:


> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed..


This is just not true. If they weren't disappointed with something about the ride they'd give it a five. Something you've done is less than the five star service they got from the last driver. Maybe your car isn't as nice. Maybe they don't care for the music you're playing. Maybe they think you're a bit heavy on the brake or the accelerator. You might believe the ride was perfect but the passenger didn't. I drive a nine year old PT Cruiser. I'm certain I get dinged for the car.



Matthew David said:


> I got my weekly report and did 72 trips that week with a 4.61 (previous weeks around 4.9-5.0)
> 
> 28 rated trips and 25 5 star trips, but since I did 72 trips, what that means is 69 of the 72 were satisfied (96%) ...


What makes you think someone who didn't rate was happy with the trip?


----------



## Matthew David

Coachman said:


> This is just not true. If they weren't disappointed with something about the ride they'd give it a five. Something you've done is less than the five star service they got from the last driver. Maybe your car isn't as nice. Maybe they don't care for the music you're playing. Maybe they think you're a bit heavy on the brake or the accelerator. You might believe the ride was perfect but the passenger didn't. I drive a nine year old PT Cruiser. I'm certain I get dinged for the car.
> 
> What makes you think someone who didn't rate was happy with the trip?


This is all consumer research type knowledge (I was in Market Research before this)

My point on the 4 star is they think 4 is good, and 5 is reserved for above and beyond in their minds.... That's because we are trained as consumers that this is how a 5 point scale works








I decided to add the Star Description to my rule sheet... I'll let you know how things go!!!!


----------



## Coachman

Matthew David said:


> This is all consumer research type knowledge (I was in Market Research before this)
> 
> My point on the 4 star is they think 4 is good, and 5 is reserved for above and beyond in their minds.... That's because we are trained as consumers that this is how a 5 point scale works


Let's suppose every rider rates 5-stars for a satisfactory ride.

What will be the minimum star rating to get deactivated?

Have you thought about that?


----------



## Lee239

Coachman said:


> Let's suppose every rider rates 5-stars for a satisfactory ride.
> 
> What will be the minimum star rating to get deactivated?
> 
> Have you thought about that?


They pretty much already have to. 4,6 rating means that 92% of people rated you with 5 stars on average if my math is right.


----------



## Coachman

Lee239 said:


> They pretty much already have to. 4,6 rating means that 92% of people rated you with 5 stars on average if my math is right.


Well posters like the OP seem to think that every ride they give should be rated 5 stars. I don't think they've ever considered the consequences of that. That would drive the minimum acceptable rating up to a 4.85 or a 4.9. Then they'd really be in a panic.

The bottom line is you don't have to worry about your rating unless you're in the bottom 10%. And no matter how you tinker with the star ratings, there's always going to be a bottom 10%.


----------



## Matthew David

Coachman said:


> Let's suppose every rider rates 5-stars for a satisfactory ride.
> 
> What will be the minimum star rating to get deactivated?
> 
> Have you thought about that?


If This was the case, then the 4.6 is fine as a minimum..... or better describe the 5 star system and have 4.0 as the minimum rating needed so 5 stars are reserved as a great ride.


----------



## Lee239

The system makes no sense, lets say you only do this part time. Only some of the people rate you and you get four 5 star ratings and one 1 star rating because you didin't want to stop at a drive thru, you are down to 4.0


----------



## Coachman

Matthew David said:


> If This was the case, then the 4.6 is fine as a minimum..... or better describe the 5 star system and have 4.0 as the minimum rating needed so 5 stars are reserved as a great ride.


But you understand that 4.6 is the minimum because that's about where the bottom 10% falls. And you raise the average rating by giving out almost 100% 5s, then that bottom 10% will fall at around 4.9.

Why would they keep it at 4.6? Nobody would ever be deactivated.


----------



## CelebDriver

The system is not fair, but it is not without its use. I know I got marked down after a truck blew exhaust all over me when I hopped on the highway. There was nothing I could do. I stopped from getting outside air immediately. Sometimes your best earns a deactivation rating.

At the same time they need some way to find problem drivers.

And that is why I have my pamphlet to teach people about the rating system. Someone read it and said they thought 4 was good before they read my pamphlet.


----------



## Coachman

CelebDriver said:


> At the same time they need some way to find problem drivers.


If you're below a 4.6 you're a problem driver.


----------



## Lee239

Coachman said:


> If you're below a 4.6 you're a problem driver.


So 90% approval rating is a problem? the problem is Uber's system. Much ado about nothing and best not to worry about what you can't control.

Pax don't know how it works so it may be that there are those who never rate people a 5 because they think 5 is exceptional and 4 is very good and 3 is good and 2 is fair and one is poor.


----------



## Coachman

Lee239 said:


> So 90% approval rating is a problem?


It is when everybody else is getting 95-99%. You understand they're grading on a curve here.


----------



## UberBastid

Coachman said:


> If you're below a 4.6 you're a problem driver.


I graduated college with a 4.2 rating - that is a B+.


----------



## Go4

In Uber's opinion all drives with a B+ or less get deactivated.


----------



## Coachman

Go4 said:


> In Uber's opinion all drives with a B+ or less get deactivated.


4.9 = A
4.8 = B
4.7 = C
4.6 = D
<4.6 = F


----------



## ACHUMA

Guys, i dont think you need to worry much anymore. The deactivation level seems to have been lowered drastically since Uber knows they are having problems keeping good drivers on the platform.

Here in the AZ market there are drivers who have between 4.21 - 3.89 ratings and they are still driving.


----------



## Lee239

Uber makes it easy to rate drivers and pax, but in general most people who bother to leave reviews or ratings for other goods or services are dissatisfied.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Restaurants or other business rated 4 out of 5 stars are considered very good places. Highly recommended.
Uber drivers rated 4 out of 5 stars are bad drivers and get deactivated.


----------



## Matthew David

CelebDriver said:


> The system is not fair, but it is not without its use. I know I got marked down after a truck blew exhaust all over me when I hopped on the highway. There was nothing I could do. I stopped from getting outside air immediately. Sometimes your best earns a deactivation rating.
> 
> At the same time they need some way to find problem drivers.
> 
> And that is why I have my pamphlet to teach people about the rating system. Someone read it and said they thought 4 was good before they read my pamphlet.


Exactly... since it is what it is, my reason for this thread was to show what I'm adding to my car and see how ratings change.

I'm not sure I'm excited about the 100 ride rating.... I have a few 1 stars in the middle I think so need a bunch of 5 stars to push those out since at the moment I'm just replacing 5 stars 100 trips ago with new 5 stars so it's hanging at 4.75 (4.89 over ~500 trips) Makes those couple 1 stars heavy hitters


----------



## Go4

Coachman said:


> 4.9 = A
> 4.8 = B
> 4.7 = C
> 4.6 = D
> <4.6 = F


That is Uber's rating system.

Real life:
5.0 = A
4.5 = B+
4.0 = B
3.0 = C
2.0 = D
1.0 = F


----------



## Cableguynoe

Go4 said:


> That is Uber's rating system.
> 
> Real life:
> 5.0 = A
> 4.5 = B+
> 4.0 = B
> 3.0 = C
> 2.0 = D
> 1.0 = F


Exactly. A pax could walk out of an Uber ride thinking that driver was great! Safe driving and nice car. I'm gonna hit him with a nice 4 stars!


----------



## Hunt to Eat

This has been discussed to death, but you're a newb so this bears repeating. After all, that's why we're here. First of all, the driver rating system is horribly flawed. In fact, the driver rating system doesn't pass the basic requirements for being statistically significant. The problem you're encountering is that most paxs think that a 4-star rating is a good rating. But in the world of Uber driver rating, a 4-star rating means fire this driver immediately! So, you may consider doing what I have done and this has allowed me to keep my driver rating above 4.95 for the past 8 months. I have this sign on the backs of my front seats.

*As an Uber driver, I must keep my driver rating above 4.7 to keep my job. 
Here's is how the driver rating system breaks down:
5 stars = The driver was courteous. The car was clean. I was transported safely.
4 stars = One vote to terminate this driver immediately.
3 stars = Two votes to terminate this driver immediately.
2 stars = Three votes to terminate this driver immediately.
1 star = Four votes to terminate this driver immediately.*​
I originally posted these signs as an emotional response to a couple really unfair ratings I received and Uber's total lack of regard for its drivers. I eventually got Uber to remove one of the ratings but it took way too long to do so. Meanwhile, I found that the signs were yielding higher overall driver ratings. I don't hand out gum, candy, water, mints, etc., I don't provide phone chargers, I don't let paxs select radio station, and I never wait more than 301 seconds for a pax to show up.


----------



## Coachman

Go4 said:


> That is Uber's rating system.
> 
> Real life:
> 5.0 = A
> 4.5 = B+
> 4.0 = B
> 3.0 = C
> 2.0 = D
> 1.0 = F


That's not real life. That's your fantasy world. Real life looks like this:


----------



## charmer37

Lee239 said:


> The system makes no sense, lets say you only do this part time. Only some of the people rate you and you get four 5 star ratings and one 1 star rating because you didin't want to stop at a drive thru, you are down to 4.0





Lee239 said:


> The system makes no sense, lets say you only do this part time. Only some of the people rate you and you get four 5 star ratings and one 1 star rating because you didin't want to stop at a drive thru, you are down to 4.0


 Exactly, I Drive part time and do but a few trips per week, Majority of riders don't rate and the 1 star I did get dropped my rating, ubers rating system is bogus nonsense and need a overhaul.


----------



## Coachman

charmer37 said:


> ... ubers rating system is bogus nonsense and need a overhaul.


There's not one person on this board who's ever suggested a better system. No matter what system you devise, somebody's going to give you a rating you don't like.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> There's not one person on this board who's ever suggested a better system. No matter what system you devise, somebody's going to give you a rating you don't like.


We all have. We want the system everyone else uses. The 5 star system Yelp uses for restaurants. Would you not eat at a 3.5-4 star rated restaurant?
Or how about the 5 star system fandango uses for movies? I watch 3.5-4 star movies all the time and am rarely disappointed.

There is a 5 star system out there already that everyone knows and accepts. And then there's Uber's 5 star system.



Cableguynoe said:


> We all have. We want the system everyone else uses. The 5 star system Yelp uses for restaurants. Would you not eat at a 3.5-4 star rated restaurant?
> Or how about the 5 star system fandango uses for movies? I watch 3.5-4 star movies all the time and am rarely disappointed.
> 
> There is a 5 star system out there already that everyone knows and accepts. And then there's Uber's 5 star system.


I'll also add that in the example of Yelp and Fandango, a lot of people are careful not use use 5 stars too freely. They save those for the AMAZING restaurants and movies, not just the good ones.


----------



## Lee239

Coachman said:


> There's not one person on this board who's ever suggested a better system. No matter what system you devise, somebody's going to give you a rating you don't like.


How bout rate from 1% to 100% and 65% is a failing grade.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Lee239 said:


> How bout rate from 1% to 100% and 65% is a failing grade.


I'd be ok with anything under 80% be failing


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There should also be a note that they are rating the DRIVER, NOT the RIDE. I got a 1 star this week from a rider upset with his 3.7x $110 trip. He was upset I wouldn't give him a discount.

They need to realize the driver doesn't control the app.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Fuzzyelvis said:


> There should also be a note that they are rating the DRIVER, NOT the RIDE. I got a 1 star this week from a rider upset with his 3.7x $110 trip. He was upset I wouldn't give him a discount.
> 
> They need to realize the driver doesn't control the app.


Well this will happen anywhere. Food takes too long at restaurant, many wont tip waitress, even though she has no control over what goes on in kitchen.
I can live with them not understanding this as long as they understand the star system.


----------



## Go4

Coachman said:


> That's not real life. That's your fantasy world. Real life looks like this:


Where can you back up your statement with facts? Sure I won't argue with you that since 4.6 and below drivers get deactivated so there are very few of them.
What I am saying is that in Real Life (NOT Uber) a scale of 1-5 means 1=F, 2=D, 3=C, 4=B & 5=A. We all learn that in school (even public school). I am saying that is how the RIDERS think. Sometimes you have to look at a problem from the riders view point, not just Uber's.


----------



## Lee239

Hunt to Eat said:


> This has been discussed to death, but you're a newb so this bears repeating. After all, that's why we're here. First of all, the driver rating system is horribly flawed. In fact, the driver rating system doesn't pass the basic requirements for being statistically significant. The problem you're encountering is that most paxs think that a 4-star rating is a good rating. But in the world of Uber driver rating, a 4-star rating means fire this driver immediately! So, you may consider doing what I have done and this has allowed me to keep my driver rating above 4.95 for the past 8 months. I have this sign on the backs of my front seats.
> 
> *As an Uber driver, I must keep my driver rating above 4.7 to keep my job.
> Here's is how the driver rating system breaks down:
> 5 stars = The driver was courteous. The car was clean. I was transported safely.
> 4 stars = One vote to terminate this driver immediately.
> 3 stars = Two votes to terminate this driver immediately.
> 2 stars = Three votes to terminate this driver immediately.
> 1 star = Four votes to terminate this driver immediately.*​
> I originally posted these signs as an emotional response to a couple really unfair ratings I received and Uber's total lack of regard for its drivers. I eventually got Uber to remove one of the ratings but it took way too long to do so. Meanwhile, I found that the signs were yielding higher overall driver ratings. I don't hand out gum, candy, water, mints, etc., I don't provide phone chargers, I don't let paxs select radio station, and I never wait more than 301 seconds for a pax to show up.


I don't think pax will believe that because it sounds so crazy that anything less than a 5 means the driver should be fired. It's an awful system.


----------



## Hunt to Eat

Lee239 said:


> I don't think pax will believe that because it sounds so crazy that anything less than a 5 means the driver should be fired. It's an awful system.


The system isn't even statistically valid. I can't begin to count the hundreds of paxs who've now taken a brief Stats course in my car. But in reality, anything less than five stars *DOES *mean fire the driver.


----------



## Lee239

Hunt to Eat said:


> The system isn't even statistically valid. I can't begin to count the hundreds of paxs who've now taken a brief Stats course in my car. But in reality, anything less than five stars *DOES *mean fire the driver.


I think it's just a gimmick so they can claim that all drivers are rated 4.6 stars or better, there is not way it's accurate. Somewhere along the line they have an algorithm throw out the 1/lowest stars.


----------



## Coachman

Go4 said:


> What I am saying is that in Real Life (NOT Uber) a scale of 1-5 means 1=F, 2=D, 3=C, 4=B & 5=A. We all learn that in school (even public school). I am saying that is how the RIDERS think. Sometimes you have to look at a problem from the riders view point, not just Uber's.


In my schools an A was always a 4.0. Was that not "real?"


----------



## Oscar Levant

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


A better way to explain it is as follows:

5 stars = thumbs up
4 stars = one thumb down
3 stars = two thumbs down
2 stars = three thumbs down
1 star = four thumbs down

I explain that we must maintain a 4.6 or better rating, and any stars less than 5 brings it down, hence the explanation.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> In my schools an A was always a 4.0. Was that not "real?"


It sure was
A=4.0
B=3.0
C=2.0
D=1.0
F=big fat zero

It's still a scale to 5. It's just 0-4 versus 1-5


----------



## Coachman

Cableguynoe said:


> It sure was
> A=4.0
> B=3.0
> C=2.0
> D=1.0
> F=big fat zero
> 
> It's still a scale to 5. It's just 0-4 versus 1-5


In other words, if somebody rates you a 3 they could have meant a C or they could meant a B. You're not really sure.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> In other words, if somebody rates you a 3 they could have meant a C or they could meant a B. You're not really sure.


I am sure. I'm sure if they rate me a 3 they didn't think the ride was terrible and that they didn't think I shouldn't be driving. 
That I'm positive of if I ever get a 3.


----------



## Strange Fruit

Have any of you actually been deactivated cuz of this terrible system? 
i've been full time for 3 years. No problems yet. I've never given out prizes. I don't do small talk. I'm kind of rude to people who are rude to me. I tell pax frequently why they shouldn't request any more rides from where they were, and why. I've never been close to deactivation. My actual transporting is perfectly competent, and I actually knwo my way around. But otherwise, I'm not their favorite person. But I can't imagine what it takes to ahve below 4.6. And the weeklies don't matter. You can have a week with 21 5s out of 25 ratings and get a 4.6. But the 4.6 doesn't matter. It's the 25 ratings. Average is out of 500. If they make it 100, same thing. If that causes ratings to go down, Uber will lower the cut off point.

I _have_ noticed on the forum that some of you are emotionally invested in yr rating, and feel hurt if you don't have 4.9. That's silly. Humans are monsters. Putting people on ratings systems brings out the monstrosity. Somepax actually say to your face that they want you fired, like if you tell them you aren't driving them 30 miles out fo the city you work in cuz it's not worth it. So that's life. Fortunately almost everyone rates 5 stars if they rate at all. And I've never been deactivated in 3 years, or even gone below 4.7, even as it dropped 12 points since the new rating system that began last Fall. So the ratings system seems alright.

Have any of you actually been deactivated cuz of this terrible system?



Cableguynoe said:


> I am sure. I'm sure if they rate me a 3 they didn't think the ride was terrible and that they didn't think I shouldn't be driving.
> That I'm positive of if I ever get a 3.


My break down is:
5s -86%
4s -7%
3s- 3%
2s-1%
1s -3%
The 5s go down to 85 and 4s go up to 8 sometimes.
The same with 3 goes upto 4%, 2s go to 0% sometimes. Funny how the 2 is the neglected rating. Like most poeple going below the 3-meh level are pissed off and 2 just isn't low enough.


----------



## Go4

Coachman said:


> In my schools an A was always a 4.0. Was that not "real?"


My bad ur right, in school it is a 1-4 scale not the 1-5 scale we're talking about.
1=fail, 2=below average, bad but not fail, 3=average, met expectations, 4=above average, 5=exceeded expectations.
This is the majority of riders understanding.
Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Coachman

Cableguynoe said:


> I am sure. I'm sure if they rate me a 3 they didn't think the ride was terrible and that they didn't think I shouldn't be driving.
> That I'm positive of if I ever get a 3.


If you owned a restaurant, would you want a bunch of 3 waitresses working there or would you want 5s?


----------



## UberLaLa

Good post OP.

As Drivers we MUST rate, or we can not take the next Trip. Passengers, as we all know, do not have to. Which allows the following Rule to apply:

_Haters love to hate, lovers hate to love.
_
It takes a bit of extra effort and thought to Rate. For sure, if a passenger does not like their ride, they will Rate down. If they love it...well...


----------



## Coachman

UberLaLa said:


> It takes a bit of extra effort and thought to Rate. For sure, if a passenger does not like their ride, they will Rate down. If they love it...well...


If you're like most drivers, about nine out of ten of your raters give you 5 stars.


----------



## UberLaLa

Coachman said:


> If you're like most drivers, about nine out of ten of your raters give you 5 stars.


Uber says I'm:










So, yup...


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> If you owned a restaurant, would you want a bunch of 3 waitresses working there or would you want 5s?


Did I say I wanted 3's? Read what's been posted and don't twist things. 
All I'm saying is that if a pax rates someone a 3, it wouldn't be after a bad experience with the driver. A bad experience would definitely get a 1. But to UBER a 3 is unacceptable. To the pax maybe they tried to make conversation and driver wasn't chatty.


----------



## Coachman

Cableguynoe said:


> Did I say I wanted 3's? Read what's been posted and don't twist things.
> All I'm saying is that if a pax rates someone a 3, it wouldn't be after a bad experience with the driver. A bad experience would definitely get a 1. But to UBER a 3 is unacceptable. To the pax maybe they tried to make conversation and driver wasn't chatty.


Getting a 3 in and of itself is not unacceptable and will not get you deactivated. Getting numerous 3s and 4s when drivers like UberLaLa are getting 97% 5s is what is not acceptable.


----------



## Uber Steve LV

I get lots of 5 stars and riders make sure I know it, especially if they're not going to tip. Everytime they say it, "5 stars dude all the way', I just say great, thanks, I'll have to find the deposit slip for those.


----------



## AuxCordBoston

Strange Fruit said:


> Have any of you actually been deactivated cuz of this terrible system?
> i've been full time for 3 years. No problems yet. I've never given out prizes. I don't do small talk. I'm kind of rude to people who are rude to me. I tell pax frequently why they shouldn't request any more rides from where they were, and why. I've never been close to deactivation. My actual transporting is perfectly competent, and I actually knwo my way around. But otherwise, I'm not their favorite person. But I can't imagine what it takes to ahve below 4.6. And the weeklies don't matter. You can have a week with 21 5s out of 25 ratings and get a 4.6. But the 4.6 doesn't matter. It's the 25 ratings. Average is out of 500. If they make it 100, same thing. If that causes ratings to go down, Uber will lower the cut off point.
> 
> I _have_ noticed on the forum that some of you are emotionally invested in yr rating, and feel hurt if you don't have 4.9. That's silly. Humans are monsters. Putting people on ratings systems brings out the monstrosity. Somepax actually say to your face that they want you fired, like if you tell them you aren't driving them 30 miles out fo the city you work in cuz it's not worth it. So that's life. Fortunately almost everyone rates 5 stars if they rate at all. And I've never been deactivated in 3 years, or even gone below 4.7, even as it dropped 12 points since the new rating system that began last Fall. So the ratings system seems alright.
> 
> Have any of you actually been deactivated cuz of this terrible system?
> 
> My break down is:
> 5s -86%
> 4s -7%
> 3s- 3%
> 2s-1%
> 1s -3%
> The 5s go down to 85 and 4s go up to 8 sometimes.
> The same with 3 goes upto 4%, 2s go to 0% sometimes. Funny how the 2 is the neglected rating. Like most poeple going below the 3-meh level are pissed off and 2 just isn't low enough.


Plus as I've posted several times under the ratings section, nobody is leaving posts saying they have been deactivated for low ratings. Only for excessive cancels and drunk driving complaints.


----------



## htboston

steveK2016 said:


> Technically, anything 4 and below means they believe the driver should be deactivated.
> 
> Here's my Rider Rating Guide:
> 
> 5 Star: I arrived at my destination in a timely manner
> 4 Star: Fire this driver tomorrow
> 3 Star: Fire this driver today
> 2 Star: Fire this driver immediately
> 1 Star: I'm in the hospital, my wallet is missing and there's an APB out for my driver


lol technically if you fall under 4 stars, you get kicked off so you're right


----------



## Dammit Mazzacane

Hey Matthew Davis , Your tinyurl to schedule a ride requires requesting permission to access, just to let you know.
Edit: Matthew David


----------



## iUBERdc

Coachman said:


> This is just not true. If they weren't disappointed with something about the ride they'd give it a five. Something you've done is less than the five star service they got from the last driver. Maybe your car isn't as nice. Maybe they don't care for the music you're playing. Maybe they think you're a bit heavy on the brake or the accelerator. You might believe the ride was perfect but the passenger didn't. I drive a nine year old PT Cruiser. I'm certain I get dinged for the car.
> 
> What makes you think someone who didn't rate was happy with the trip?


Most people downvote because they are pissed there was traffic or there was a surge or they were denied 5+ people on an X ride or they were denied open containers to drink on the ride. Most downvotes are for things OUT OF OUR CONTROL or for us following rules to protect ourselves from liability


----------



## DexNex

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> Hey Matthew Davis , Your tinyurl to schedule a ride requires requesting permission to access, just to let you know.
> Edit: Matthew David


Also the whole prearranged ride thing.. you should probably keep it on the low.


----------



## negeorgia

From personal experience. When I got tired of the $3.20 minimum payout in my 2012 car and started answering the 'so how do you like driving for Uber' question honestly; my rating drop to 4.8. In January, I bought a 2006 for $2100 and now there is a smile in my voice and my rating has improved to 4.88 in only 9 weeks. In other words, earnings per trip, mile or hour and what we think of them plays a factor in our star feedback. People want simple, cheap and clean.


----------



## Matthew David

Coachman said:


> If you're like most drivers, about nine out of ten of your raters give you 5 stars.


Totally... a bad week of 4.6 (25 5 stars out of 28 ratings---90%)

Just to redirect/focus...

1) Consumers/riders are not clear a 4 is BAD. 
2) Since Uber won't make it clear on the rider app, it's probably a good idea to post a similar sign in your car.... My ratings have trickled up just by informing them already

Since we can't change ratings and minimum rating requirements... Information is the drivers power at the moment. So DO it!!! 



DexNex said:


> Also the whole prearranged ride thing.. you should probably keep it on the low.


Thanks... didn't know it wasn't okay to be honest! I have traveling riders request me as they get out, so thought it was a clean life organizer.



Coachman said:


> But you understand that 4.6 is the minimum because that's about where the bottom 10% falls. And you raise the average rating by giving out almost 100% 5s, then that bottom 10% will fall at around 4.9.
> 
> Why would they keep it at 4.6? Nobody would ever be deactivated.


I respectfully disagree... it's a set number, not a bell curve... There is nothing saying top 10%/bottom10%.... The 4.6 could knock out 30% drivers in one market, only 2% in another


----------



## Matthew David

Zoey jasmine said:


> Were did you find sign?


I'm a PowerPoint pro... I made my own sign.

Printed and bought laminate that I did myself since the rear passenger sign kept tearing off based on busy Denver road pickups ... BACKPACKS!!!!


----------



## Zoey jasmine

Matthew David said:


> This is all consumer research type knowledge (I was in Market Research before this)
> 
> My point on the 4 star is they think 4 is good, and 5 is reserved for above and beyond in their minds.... That's because we are trained as consumers that this is how a 5 point scale works
> 
> View attachment 108015
> I decided to add the Star Description to my rule sheet... I'll let you know how things go!!!!


How can you have pax schedule pickups?


----------



## Matthew David

Zoey jasmine said:


> How can you have pax schedule pickups?


Pax request airport runs from me. I have cards... I just assume the Uber app works on proximity and if it doesn't, I have a Uber Select trick so they pay the same and I can still skip the DIA queue... win win


----------



## PeterNorth

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


I like the rating sign, but the other sign is just awkward. I feel like I am reading a description of a dating site member.


----------



## MadePenniesToday

Maybe change the "There are no topics inappropriate or too vulgar". Maybe put you don't mind a conversation about anything especially about Uber since riders are curious about it.


----------



## Profiteer

Ubers rating system is probably the stupidest Ive ever seen.
5 stars is good/great. 4 stars or less = Horrible.

I rate Ubers Rating System 1 Star


----------



## Mole

Nice work!


----------



## Heema

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


Great but alot of people don't know what deactivated means, so it would be better if it was deactivated( Termination)


----------



## Tihstae

Coachman said:


> In my schools an A was always a 4.0. Was that not "real?"


You are showing your age. They have a new rating system now. 4.0 is an A in a "normal" class. 5.0 is an A in a "college prep" class. It is a stupid system that has developed over time so that people don't feel bad about their poor performance. Participation is enough for a trophy.


----------



## Trafficat

Hunt to Eat said:


> This has been discussed to death, but you're a newb so this bears repeating. After all, that's why we're here. First of all, the driver rating system is horribly flawed. In fact, the driver rating system doesn't pass the basic requirements for being statistically significant. The problem you're encountering is that most paxs think that a 4-star rating is a good rating. But in the world of Uber driver rating, a 4-star rating means fire this driver immediately! So, you may consider doing what I have done and this has allowed me to keep my driver rating above 4.95 for the past 8 months. I have this sign on the backs of my front seats.
> 
> *As an Uber driver, I must keep my driver rating above 4.7 to keep my job.
> Here's is how the driver rating system breaks down:
> 5 stars = The driver was courteous. The car was clean. I was transported safely.
> 4 stars = One vote to terminate this driver immediately.
> 3 stars = Two votes to terminate this driver immediately.
> 2 stars = Three votes to terminate this driver immediately.
> 1 star = Four votes to terminate this driver immediately.*​
> I originally posted these signs as an emotional response to a couple really unfair ratings I received and Uber's total lack of regard for its drivers. I eventually got Uber to remove one of the ratings but it took way too long to do so. Meanwhile, I found that the signs were yielding higher overall driver ratings. I don't hand out gum, candy, water, mints, etc., I don't provide phone chargers, I don't let paxs select radio station, and I never wait more than 301 seconds for a pax to show up.


What was your overall rating before you placed the sign? Did your rating go up significantly to reach that 4.95 or just not go down?


----------



## Hunt to Eat

Trafficat said:


> What was your overall rating before you placed the sign? Did your rating go up significantly to reach that 4.95 or just not go down?


I was holding steady at around 4.8 to 4.85


----------



## Hairytee

Based on this, there should only be a 2 star rating. 2 stars if you liked the ride and 1 if you didn't. What sucks is that on average riders only rate us about 30% of the time. As a driver we are required to rate the passenger in order to close out the trip, but the passenger is not required to rate the driver. I think they should be required to rate the driver as well. I have a 4,96 rating. All of my ratings have been 5 stars except one passenger gave me a 1 star. It was from a Pool ride that had 3 business men in suits and a young woman with a crying baby. So I get a 1 star from one of them for a situation out of my control. That's the frustrating thing for me. I work very hard to keep my rating high and I don't appreciate getting a 1 star for a situation that is not my fault. Needless to say, I try to avoid Pool trips because of this.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Hairytee said:


> Based on this, there should only be a 2 star rating. 2 stars if you liked the ride and 1 if you didn't. What sucks is that on average riders only rate us about 30% of the time. As a driver we are required to rate the passenger in order to close out the trip, but the passenger is not required to rate the driver. I think they should be required to rate the driver as well. I have a 4,96 rating. All of my ratings have been 5 stars except one passenger gave me a 1 star. It was from a Pool ride that had 3 business men in suits and a young woman with a crying baby. So I get a 1 star from one of them for a situation out of my control. That's the frustrating thing for me. I work very hard to keep my rating high and I don't appreciate getting a 1 star for a situation that is not my fault. Needless to say, I try to avoid Pool trips because of this.


4 adults pax and 1 baby? Sounds like there was no car seat. That's a much deserved 1 star for letting her in. You're lucky they didn't report you.


----------



## sarasota

i find people that tell me they are going to give me a 5 don't tip. I would rather a tip. Some people just do not give 5's because believe nothing is perfect. Traffic or music played can influence. Uber really needs to just let riders tip online like lyft does. Many think ratings are same as tipping.


----------



## Cableguynoe

sarasota said:


> Many think ratings are same as tipping.


Twice I've been asked if we get bonuses based on our ratings


----------



## Hunt to Eat

Cableguynoe said:


> Twice I've been asked if we get bonuses based on our ratings


And how do you respond to that?


----------



## Cableguynoe

Hunt to Eat said:


> And how do you respond to that?


I explained to them that the only reason ratings are important to us is because if we get enough negative ones, we could be deactivated.
But I just think it's funny how they think getting 5 stars are so important to us, they feel good about themselves not tipping because they made our day by rating us.


----------



## Hunt to Eat

Cableguynoe said:


> I explained to them that the only reason ratings are important to us is because if we get enough negative ones, we could be deactivated.
> But I just think it's funny how they think getting 5 stars are so important to us, they feel good about themselves not tipping because they made our day by rating us.


And those poor shmucks have no clue that after a few too many 4-star ratings, you're bounced off the roster on your lower backside.


----------



## Dback2004

steveK2016 said:


> 5 Star: I arrived at my destination in a timely manner
> 4 Star: Fire this driver tomorrow
> 3 Star: Fire this driver today
> 2 Star: Fire this driver immediately
> 1 Star: I'm in the hospital, my wallet is missing and there's an APB out for my driver


I love this!!!

I think Uber has backed off on the deactivation at <4.6 but I'm sure it varies from market to market (I have no evidence to support this theory it's just my opinion). Turnover is obviously a problem for them and their goal is to have as many vehicles on the road as possible at a given time. They'll probably use ratings to justify getting rid of a driver if needbe, but that's about it.

I don't pay much attention to my rating. I just looked it up for the first time in months and I'm at a 4.8. I drive a manual transmission which I'm sure gets me dinged on ratings quite frequently because it doesn't shift as smooth as an automatic. There's a human factor, here though. When I looked at the ratings today I noticed the last weekend I was driving I got a single 1* and a report for professionalism with no details as to what I did. It pisses me off, which is why I don't look at it that often. When I detach myself from the emotional part and look at the big picture objectively, I figure as long as I'm driving safely, my car is clean, and I don't swear at my passengers then I'm doing better than 50% of the other drivers that I've ridden with as a pax and I'll be fine. Like others on here, I don't give out freebies, I play my own music and typically don't change the station or give an aux cord out, and at 5:01 your ride will be cancelled as a no-show. I will lend a phone charger if asked nicely, but that rarely happens since most of my rides in the QC metro area are <10 minutes anyway.

So when it comes to passenger education, I'd rather focus my attention on how our profit/loss works and how gratuity actually works versus the rating system, which is unfair like most Uber policies, but really isn't that important.


----------



## Coachman

Profiteer said:


> Ubers rating system is probably the stupidest Ive ever seen.
> 5 stars is good/great. 4 stars or less = Horrible.
> 
> I rate Ubers Rating System 1 Star


And yet a lot of people here want to switch to a Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down system, which is essentially the same thing.


----------



## Strange Fruit

Matthew David said:


> Totally... a bad week of 4.6 (25 5 stars out of 28 ratings---90%)
> 
> Just to redirect/focus...
> 
> 1) Consumers/riders are not clear a 4 is BAD.
> 2) Since Uber won't make it clear on the rider app, it's probably a good idea to post a similar sign in your car.... My ratings have trickled up just by informing them already
> 
> Since we can't change ratings and minimum rating requirements... Information is the drivers power at the moment. So DO it!!!
> 
> Thanks... didn't know it wasn't okay to be honest! I have traveling riders request me as they get out, so thought it was a clean life organizer.
> 
> I respectfully disagree... it's a set number, not a bell curve... There is nothing saying top 10%/bottom10%.... The 4.6 could knock out 30% drivers in one market, only 2% in another


Uber claimed since the beginning of X at least, that the cut off on ratings varies with the markets. They see what the ratings typically are, since therre is a cultural variance. They didn't just pick 4.6. They see what people were getting and picked the cut off, so it's kind of a bell curve, then became a set number (unless they lied, but it makes sense, not that Uber often makes sense, soooo, but it's probably more liek a curve and the fact is you don't see anybody on the forum in ratings troube). They _want_ drivers, and they aren't paying to get better, so they aren't trying to deactivate anyone for not being a "5 star driver".

Like you, I know it's ok to be honest, cuz it's my life. And that guy is right too. Honesty isn't good for ratings if it isn't "positive", cuz at least in SF, people think it's immoral to be not positive, or "negative" as they call it. But I just call it my point of view within the massive spectrum of ways a perosn might think that aren't positive. But the primates are simple so there's positive, and everything else they just call negative. And yr supposed to be positive or yr a bad person who's trying to bum them out. But I just don't care. I feel gross when I act nice to get a good rating, on Uber and in life in general. I don't want to pander. But I spent two months pandering as an experiment to see how much that was a factor in the rating, and my rating started climbing after a couple years of remeaining steady fluctuating within 2pts. I ran out of steam, curiosity was satisfied, and I went back to being a real person.

Now I only get 86% 5s (I used to get about 86-90 when I'd do the math myself on the weeklies before there was a tab to see yr individual rating percentages). Strangely, your rating can change drastically while the percentage of each star rating stays the same. Yr rating can also go down a pt while you _gained_ a percentage on 3s, and lost one on 2s. It seems it would go up then, not down. I had that happen and the opposite recently. My 5s went down one and 4s up one, but my rating went up a pt at the same time. But since the very end of 2016 the ratings have been screwy. Many people reported having a drastic fall, even losing a point a day for some stretches (me too, I went down 12 points in about a month). Either way, since the rating doesn't matter as long as your above 4.6, it isn't really an issue to worry about. Tho I get nerdy and obsess over the numbers sometimes, and am interested in the psychology of it, but I've never been close to deactivation. Idk why people get so upset here over how "unfair" the rating system is. I think they want to feel special with 4.9s or something. If someone gets below 4.6, they are probably _really_ bad, so they shouldn't be driving people. 2 years ago I had a really sad tragedy and just couldn't be nice no matter what. I was miserable and didn't care how I was to people. I still drove and navigated competently. My rating sunk, tho still stayed above 4.7. You got to be bad to get below 4.6 (weeklies don't matter, cuz it's about the 500 rated trips score, not what happened over 28 rated rides). I say that after driving since Feb2014 full time, so if it were going to be a problem, it would have been by now. I don't pander to pax. I'm just competent and have a clean car on the inside. The outside varies. I live in SF where an hour leaves a film of dust, and I'm not gonna clean my car every day to make pax feel special. I even chastise some pax for where they chose to be picked up cuz it's inconsiderate to expectg drivers and the rest of the car drivers on the road to expect an Ubercar to stop there. I could just not say anything and get a better rating, but htey should know, and maybe they won't do it again. I know this pisses some of them off, but a few may be decent humans who were just not thinking, and now they'll be better for the rest of you. I'm not a dick about it. I just tell them in an informative tone. I'm kind of Aspergy, so I probably don't sound that nice either. But it seems more disrespectful for me to think negatively about their actions and just keep quiet. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that if they'd thought about it they would have done something different, and with my informing them they'll adjust. But I have 3%3s, 1%2s and 3% 1s, so I'm gonna guess some of those came from the people who were thinking "how dare the Uber driver talk to me that way", cuz we got some prissy *****es in SF.

The irony of someone who drives unworried about ratings, but has so much to say about them. Like I said, it's an interesting peek into the Earthlings.

I'm still interested for curiosity's sake tho, to see how your sign affects ratings. Like I said, I get nerdy about it, like it's a little sociological peek into something. That's why I did my pandering experiment. "How much does it matter if you go out of your way to be likeable?" It turns out it's a major factor in rating. For many the default is 5 tho, despite everyone saying "but normally a 5 star rating scale means 3 is ok". Not the case on Uber. It's still kinda true for a few maybe, but my experience says it isn't how most treat it. I'm don't have a "5 star driver" personality and I have 86% 5s. And 7% 4s, and I'm definitely not the driver asking everyone how their day is, and I am curt when people initiate small talk, or ask the same ****ing questions I've already answered 20000 times. My mind says " go for 5 stars, or clue them in to the fact that I'm not into talking", and I choose the latter. I've heard my share of "Ohhhkay"s when they feel rebuffed by my curt answers, usually when it's the pax that tries a _second_ question cuz they didnt' get the hint the first try. That tells me they don't respect us enough to realize we aren't beholden to them for attention (especially as driving in SF requires a lot of attention on the road, but I see other drivers chatting it up, using their hands to talk, everyone smiling, and that's usually cuz I look in the car when they didnt' stay in their lane cuz they're a swerver).

I'm sure if _I_ wanted to chat boringly and _they_ didn't want to participate, that same person would feel free to be annoyed and wishing the driver would shut up and tweet out "I'm in an Uber and driver is just going on & on with "how's yr day, what do you do for a living....OMG", but when the _driver_ is annoyed they think we're some weird anti-social person and give less than 5 stars. "No pax, you just don't interest me with yr 'where u frum. u like doing Uber. almost done or just starting'". I _really_ like "do u do anything else besides this?". "I sleep&eat too, and **** now & then. I read books, I, (_why the **** am I answering this question when this person doesn't *really* care?_) but that's about it. So yes, I do other things."


----------



## Cableguynoe

Strange Fruit said:


> Uber claimed since the beginning of X at least, that the cut off on ratings varies with the markets. They see what the ratings typically are, since therre is a cultural variance. They didn't just pick 4.6. They see what people were getting and picked the cut off, so it's kind of a bell curve, then became a set number (unless they lied, but it makes sense, not that Uber often makes sense, soooo, but it's probably more liek a curve and the fact is you don't see anybody on the forum in ratings troube). They _want_ drivers, and they aren't paying to get better, so they aren't trying to deactivate anyone for not being a "5 star driver".
> 
> Like you, I know it's ok to be honest, cuz it's my life. And that guy is right too. Honesty isn't good for ratings if it isn't "positive", cuz at least in SF, people think it's immoral to be not positive, or "negative" as they call it. But I just call it my point of view within the massive spectrum of ways a perosn might think that aren't positive. But the primates are simple so there's positive, and everything else they just call negative. And yr supposed to be positive or yr a bad person who's trying to bum them out. But I just don't care. I feel gross when I act nice to get a good rating, on Uber and in life in general. I don't want to pander. But I spent two months pandering as an experiment to see how much that was a factor in the rating, and my rating started climbing after a couple years of remeaining steady fluctuating within 2pts. I ran out of steam, curiosity was satisfied, and I went back to being a real person.
> 
> Now I only get 86% 5s (I used to get about 86-90 when I'd do the math myself on the weeklies before there was a tab to see yr individual rating percentages). Strangely, your rating can change drastically while the percentage of each star rating stays the same. Yr rating can also go down a pt while you _gained_ a percentage on 3s, and lost one on 2s. It seems it would go up then, not down. I had that happen and the opposite recently. My 5s went down one and 4s up one, but my rating went up a pt at the same time. But since the very end of 2016 the ratings have been screwy. Many people reported having a drastic fall, even losing a point a day for some stretches (me too, I went down 12 points in about a month). Either way, since the rating doesn't matter as long as your above 4.6, it isn't really an issue to worry about. Tho I get nerdy and obsess over the numbers sometimes, and am interested in the psychology of it, but I've never been close to deactivation. Idk why people get so upset here over how "unfair" the rating system is. I think they want to feel special with 4.9s or something. If someone gets below 4.6, they are probably _really_ bad, so they shouldn't be driving people. 2 years ago I had a really sad tragedy and just couldn't be nice no matter what. I was miserable and didn't care how I was to people. I still drove and navigated competently. My rating sunk, tho still stayed above 4.7. You got to be bad to get below 4.6 (weeklies don't matter, cuz it's about the 500 rated trips score, not what happened over 28 rated rides). I say that after driving since Feb2014 full time, so if it were going to be a problem, it would have been by now. I don't pander to pax. I'm just competent and have a clean car on the inside. The outside varies. I live in SF where an hour leaves a film of dust, and I'm not gonna clean my car every day to make pax feel special. I even chastise some pax for where they chose to be picked up cuz it's inconsiderate to expectg drivers and the rest of the car drivers on the road to expect an Ubercar to stop there. I could just not say anything and get a better rating, but htey should know, and maybe they won't do it again. I know this pisses some of them off, but a few may be decent humans who were just not thinking, and now they'll be better for the rest of you. I'm not a &%[email protected]!* about it. I just tell them in an informative tone. I'm kind of Aspergy, so I probably don't sound that nice either. But it seems more disrespectful for me to think negatively about their actions and just keep quiet. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that if they'd thought about it they would have done something different, and with my informing them they'll adjust. But I have 3%3s, 1%2s and 3% 1s, so I'm gonna guess some of those came from the people who were thinking "how dare the Uber driver talk to me that way", cuz we got some prissy *****es in SF.
> 
> The irony of someone who drives unworried about ratings, but has so much to say about them. Like I said, it's an interesting peek into the Earthlings.
> 
> I'm still interested for curiosity's sake tho, to see how your sign affects ratings. Like I said, I get nerdy about it, like it's a little sociological peek into something. That's why I did my pandering experiment. "How much does it matter if you go out of your way to be likeable?" It turns out it's a major factor in rating. For many the default is 5 tho, despite everyone saying "but normally a 5 star rating scale means 3 is ok". Not the case on Uber. It's still kinda true for a few maybe, but my experience says it isn't how most treat it. I'm don't have a "5 star driver" personality and I have 86% 5s. And 7% 4s, and I'm definitely not the driver asking everyone how their day is, and I am curt when people initiate small talk, or ask the same &%[email protected]!*ing questions I've already answered 20000 times. My mind says " go for 5 stars, or clue them in to the fact that I'm not into talking", and I choose the latter. I've heard my share of "Ohhhkay"s when they feel rebuffed by my curt answers, usually when it's the pax that tries a _second_ question cuz they didnt' get the hint the first try. That tells me they don't respect us enough to realize we aren't beholden to them for attention (especially as driving in SF requires a lot of attention on the road, but I see other drivers chatting it up, using their hands to talk, everyone smiling, and that's usually cuz I look in the car when they didnt' stay in their lane cuz they're a swerver).
> 
> I'm sure if _I_ wanted to chat boringly and _they_ didn't want to participate, that same person would feel free to be annoyed and wishing the driver would shut up and tweet out "I'm in an Uber and driver is just going on & on with "how's yr day, what do you do for a living....OMG", but when the _driver_ is annoyed they think we're some weird anti-social person and give less than 5 stars. "No pax, you just don't interest me with yr 'where u frum. u like doing Uber. almost done or just starting'". I _really_ like "do u do anything else besides this?". "I sleep&eat too, and &%[email protected]!* now & then. I read books, I, (_why the &%[email protected]!* am I answering this question when this person doesn't *really* care?_) but that's about it. So yes, I do other things."


Holy crap! Am I the only one that's not going to read that ridiculously long post? 
Ain't nobody got time for that!



Coachman said:


> And yet a lot of people here want to switch to a Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down system, which is essentially the same thing.


So what would you like to see? Or are you happy with the way the rating system is currently designed?


----------



## CelebDriver

This is my system:

_____ It was beyond what you would expect from a ride
_____ Everything was great
_____ They got me there
_____ It did not go well. I never want to ride with them again.
_____ Get them off the road ASAP. They are dangerous.

As long as you stay above "They got me there" then you get to keep driving. The last two would require an explanation and the last one would include a follow up by the company.


----------



## Coachman

Cableguynoe said:


> So what would you like to see? Or are you happy with the way the rating system is currently designed?


I just accept it. And I work to keep my rating up like everybody else. I don't worry about the "unfair" ratings I might get. And I've had my share of unfair 1's. I really don't think it's that difficult to stay above a 4.75. I'm currently at a 4.8. And with the new pilot program in DFW my rating should go up to a 4.89.

There was somebody ranting on this board once who had gone from a 4.95 to a 4.90 and couldn't handle it. Really?


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> I just accept it. .


I get you. 
Like the guy that just accepts that his wife is a total *****. He just tries to make the best of it and stay on her good side. But every once in a while he goes with his buddy to a bar and vents about what a ***** she is and how things could be better if this or that. 
This is our bar bro!


----------



## Coachman

Cableguynoe said:


> I get you.
> Like the guy that just accepts that his wife is a total *****. He just tries to make the best of it and stay on her good side. But every once in a while he goes with his buddy to a bar and vents about what a ***** she is and how things could be better if this or that.
> This is our bar bro!


Show me a system you think would work better. I'll be all for it.



CelebDriver said:


> This is my system:
> 
> _____ It was beyond what you would expect from a ride
> _____ Everything was great
> _____ They got me there
> _____ It did not go well. I never want to ride with them again.
> _____ Get them off the road ASAP. They are dangerous.
> 
> As long as you stay above "They got me there" then you get to keep driving. The last two would require an explanation and the last one would include a follow up by the company.


You've haven't changed the system. You've changed the way riders rate. And that's not going to happen.


----------



## Adieu

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


Try correct spelling


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> Show me a system you think would work better. I'll be all for it.
> 
> You've haven't changed the system. You've changed the way riders rate. And that's not going to happen.


Similar to what Caleb posted. I disagree with you on that he hasn't changed the system. 
In real life(outside of UBER) there's good/satisfactory service which we all expect anytime we're paying for something. 
And then there's great service. When you walk away thinking 'wow that was great! I'm coming back and telling all my friends, and I might just go on yelp and write a review!'

Not every drive is or should be 5 stars. I should be able to get rated 4 stars all day long and still be considered a good driver.

If I get 5 stars for driving from point a to B and simply saying hi and bye, then what do you give the guy that makes great conversation, helps with luggage, recommends places to eat, etc etc. And makes the pax walk away thinking wow that was great!?

With all that said, I have a ton of 5 stars and one stupid 1 star. But I assure you most my rides were just about 3 star worthy based on system stated above


----------



## Adieu

Coachman said:


> Getting a 3 in and of itself is not unacceptable and will not get you deactivated. Getting numerous 3s and 4s when drivers like UberLaLa are getting 97% 5s is what is not acceptable.


Urban areas are better raters. Frequent users know what's up.

Suburbs will tank you



AuxCordBoston said:


> Plus as I've posted several times under the ratings section, nobody is leaving posts saying they have been deactivated for low ratings. Only for excessive cancels and drunk driving complaints.


I have.

About 5 days in...

Day 1, was all chipper, "hi y'all, I'm new~" >>> ton of tips, 14x 3*, average 3.65
Days 2 - 4: straight 5's. average up to 4.1
Day 5: kicked out @ 4.2

Reinstated after online "class", anted and cheated my way to 48x 5* & 2x 4*, got cleared by a hair's breadth

Worked up to 4.74.... then dropped to 4.66 and stuck there for months now, nobody rates anymore

PS lyft 4.8-4.9 for dozens of 100-rating cycles now.....fuber STILL stuck in <500 rated trips


----------



## Coachman

Cableguynoe said:


> Similar to what Caleb posted. I disagree with you on that he hasn't changed the system.
> In real life(outside of UBER) there's good/satisfactory service which we all expect anytime we're paying for something.
> And then there's great service. When you walk away thinking 'wow that was great! I'm coming back and telling all my friends, and I might just go on yelp and write a review!'
> 
> Not every drive is or should be 5 stars. I should be able to get rated 4 stars all day long and still be considered a good driver.
> 
> If I get 5 stars for driving from point a to B and simply saying hi and bye, then what do you give the guy that makes great conversation, helps with luggage, recommends places to eat, etc etc. And makes the pax walk away thinking wow that was great!?
> 
> With all that said, I have a ton of 5 stars and one stupid 1 star. But I assure you most my rides were just about 3 star worthy based on system stated above


There's only one problem with the system Celeb proposed... it requires that you get riders to completely change the way they're rating. That can't happen. So it's an unreasonable and unworkable system. Show me something that can work.


----------



## CelebDriver

Coachman said:


> You've haven't changed the system. You've changed the way riders rate. And that's not going to happen.


I have given them a way to tell about their experience. And if the rating is unacceptable, there is follow up. People can't just give out ones to everyone without explaining themselves each time.



Coachman said:


> There's only one problem with the system Celeb proposed... it requires that you get riders to completely change the way they're rating. That can't happen. So it's an unreasonable and unworkable system. Show me something that can work.


The only issue is that stars are language neutral. My system requires text and that they read the first few times.


----------



## itsablackmarket

Every driver is supposed to be the coolest person in the world and make my life better, if they don't, that's a 4 star. Maybe a 3.

If the driver commits thought crimes against me, that I may or may not be imagining, that's a 2, maybe a 1 if I'm feeling extra irritated, right?

5 stars are for drivers that perform sexual acts on me while driving at the same time, and I'll even tip if they let me file charges afterwards.

Uber on.


----------



## villetta

Matthew David said:


> This is all consumer research type knowledge (I was in Market Research before this)
> 
> My point on the 4 star is they think 4 is good, and 5 is reserved for above and beyond in their minds.... That's because we are trained as consumers that this is how a 5 point scale works
> 
> View attachment 108015
> I decided to add the Star Description to my rule sheet... I'll let you know how things go!!!!


You're asking people to publicly post their information on a Google spreadsheet? Tip - you can set up a free Wix site, and it comes with a free booking calendar. The people can book their time slots with you privately.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

None of this really matters because the 4.6 cutoff point is just as arbitrary as the ratings themselves. I believe they set the minimum at a level which will deactivate a certain target of drivers per month, maybe half a percent of the driver pool. If pax as a whole were suddenly to be made aware of 4* being bad and if overall ratings subsequently increased then Uber would simply raise the minimum to 4.7 or 4.8 to ensure that the bottom x percent of drivers continue to be cycled out of the driver pool.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> There's only one problem with the system Celeb proposed... it requires that you get riders to completely change the way they're rating. That can't happen. So it's an unreasonable and unworkable system. Show me something that can work.


Coachman, all you keep saying is show me something that can work. Anything can work. Would you not agree yelp is very well known? Is it a lot to get UBER users to start rating the way they would on yelp?
But you're just going to say that won't work show me something that will. Round and round we go. 
If the next time the pax looks at UBER app after the ride they see a screen that says "would you like to rate your driver? Select:
5 for awesome
4 great ride
3 no complaints
Etc etc

Would that confuse people? No. UBER can do anything and make it simple IF they were to choose to make a change, which I'm sure they won't. But if could work. Very easily.


----------



## mytheq63

The ratings system as a whole doesn't bother me, what bothers me is getting a 1* and not knowing why. Was it my behavior, my car, or something beyond my control? I have had 3 x 1* rides and no idea why. For ratings below 3 the Pax should be forced to say why.


----------



## Coachman

CelebDriver said:


> The only issue is that stars are language neutral. My system requires text and that they read the first few times.


Your system requires that riders rate drivers according to a complex set of instructions that they must read. It's never going to happen. It's a nice effort, but it's totally unworkable.



Cableguynoe said:


> Coachman, all you keep saying is show me something that can work. Anything can work. Would you not agree yelp is very well known? Is it a lot to get UBER users to start rating the way they would on yelp?
> But you're just going to say that won't work show me something that will. Round and round we go.
> If the next time the pax looks at UBER app after the ride they see a screen that says "would you like to rate your driver? Select:
> 5 for awesome
> 4 great ride
> 3 no complaints
> Etc etc
> 
> Would that confuse people? No. UBER can do anything and make it simple IF they were to choose to make a change, which I'm sure they won't. But if could work. Very easily.


So let's suppose people use the rating system as you've just described. How will that make any difference to anything except to move the cutoff for deactivation from 4.6 to 2.6? Would it make it any more fair if the cutoff is 2.6?



mytheq63 said:


> The ratings system as a whole doesn't bother me, what bothers me is getting a 1* and not knowing why. Was it my behavior, my car, or something beyond my control? I have had 3 x 1* rides and no idea why. For ratings below 3 the Pax should be forced to say why.


It seems to me that most people here know why when they receive a one-star. They usually think it's unfair but they know the passenger wasn't happy during the ride.


----------



## CelebDriver

Coachman said:


> Your system requires that riders rate drivers according to a complex set of instructions that they must read. It's never going to happen. It's a nice effort, but it's totally unworkable.


Stick with vague meaningless ignorance is your plan. I prefer to try than to give up.


----------



## Coachman

CelebDriver said:


> Stick with vague meaningless ignorance is your plan. I prefer to try than to give up.


I don't consider it vague. And it's certainly not meaningless. We all know we have to maintain a minimum 4.6 to remain safe. What's vague or meaningless about that?

Everybody knows a 5.0 is perfect. A 4.9 is great. A 4.8 is pretty good. And a 4.75 is average. It's all perfectly understandable. In fact quite simple.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Matthew David said:


> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.


wow I just posted about this same thing last Thursday. Nice explanation.


----------



## SafeT

You forgot this one...

1 star... I have no self worth so I put up signs to beg for stars.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Coachman said:


> Show me a system you think would work better. I'll be all for it.


First Screen: 
RATE THE UBER PRICING FOR THIS RIDE
[1*] [2*] [3*] [4*] [5*]

Second Screen (avail only after rating Uber Pricing): 
RATE YOUR INDEPENDENT CAR & DRIVER 
[ ThumbsUP ] [ ThumbsDOWN ] [ Standing Ovation ]

third screen:
Comments: __________________


----------



## Coachman

Michael - Cleveland said:


> First Screen:
> RATE THE UBER PRICING FOR THIS RIDE
> [1*] [2*] [3*] [4*] [5*]
> 
> Second Screen (avail only after rating Uber Pricing):
> RATE YOUR INDEPENDENT CAR & DRIVER
> [ ThumbsUP ] [ ThumbsDOWN ] [ Standing Ovation ]
> 
> third screen:
> Comments: __________________


You're just making it more complicated. What will happen is many riders will just stop rating altogether and you'll be left with the ones who really want to screw you.


----------



## CelebDriver

Coachman said:


> I don't consider it vague. And it's certainly not meaningless. We all know we have to maintain a minimum 4.6 to remain safe. What's vague or meaningless about that?
> 
> Everybody knows a 5.0 is perfect. A 4.9 is great. A 4.8 is pretty good. And a 4.75 is average. It's all perfectly understandable. In fact quite simple.


Please define what you mean by "everybody". As soon as you define "everybody" as not everybody, you are in the land of vague. The fact you feel confident about what it means does not mean that you understand it at all. We don't actually know anything. We have heard rumors. We haven't been taken out back and shot yet so we assume we are doing well. You have created the "Coachman Feel Good Ratings Scale" but you have no idea what that means to people on the inside. Are we getting bonus offers based on our rating? Does it effect which rides we get offered? That equals vague.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Coachman said:


> So let's suppose people use the rating system as you've just described. How will that make any difference to anything except to move the cutoff for deactivation from 4.6 to 2.6? Would it make it any more fair if the c.


I believe it would be more fair. Because let's be honest, it takes a lot for someone to say they just experienced a really bad UBER ride. But a pax that didn't think their driver was anything to talk about, but did their job as expected, could still rate, give a 3, and it would be OK.
Under current system, a bunch of pax who think a driver does his job but is nothing great, that driver would no longer be driving with Uber. Under that one purposed he's still doing his thing
Would you not agree that in any line of work there are some better than others? 5 should be saved for the elite. That's how I rate. I would not rate myself a 5, if I'm completely honest. I do my job and I do it well. But im sure there are better drivers out there.
I just looked at my yelp profile, and I've only given three 5 stars. About 30 something 3 and 4 stars and 8 1 stars.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think many rate the same way I do.


----------



## uber genesis

steveK2016 said:


> Technically, anything 4 and below means they believe the driver should be deactivated.
> 
> Here's my Rider Rating Guide:
> 
> 5 Star: I arrived at my destination in a timely manner
> 4 Star: Fire this driver tomorrow
> 3 Star: Fire this driver today
> 2 Star: Fire this driver immediately
> 1 Star: I'm in the hospital, my wallet is missing and there's an APB out for my driver


I would love this in PP integrated with the other rating sign

Pm me


----------



## Bogdan is here

Iv'e dared some of my passengers to 1 star me. Doesn't effect me


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Coachman said:


> You're just making it more complicated. What will happen is many riders will just stop rating altogether and you'll be left with the ones who really want to screw you.


That's what we have already... 2/3rds of riders don't bother to rate, and as the OP stated, those who have a complaint rate - those who don't, don't. 
I'm tired of being down-rated for things that are out of my control. I want the pax to rate UBER first - and then the driver.


----------



## Coachman

CelebDriver said:


> Please define what you mean by "everybody". As soon as you define "everybody" as not everybody, you are in the land of vague. The fact you feel confident about what it means does not mean that you understand it at all. We don't actually know anything. We have heard rumors. We haven't been taken out back and shot yet so we assume we are doing well. You have created the "Coachman Feel Good Ratings Scale" but you have no idea what that means to people on the inside. Are we getting bonus offers based on our rating? Does it effect which rides we get offered? That equals vague.


What do you think the ratings mean "on the inside?" Do you think they're secretly being used for some purpose other than what we've been told about?


----------



## Matthew David

SafeT said:


> You forgot this one...
> 
> 1 star... I have no self worth so I put up signs to beg for stars.


Haters gonna hate... it's not begging, just informing.

Your sign can say the same, but read " I have no self worth so I make fun of everything to hopefully make myself feel better" 

Just saying. Good luck out there


----------



## Fred Ex

4 or below should all end with "Driver should be fired" because that what anything less than 5 means.


----------



## Zoey jasmine

Matthew David said:


> Haters gonna hate... it's not begging, just informing.
> 
> Your sign can say the same, but read " I have no self worth so I make fun of everything to hopefully make myself feel better"
> 
> Just saying. Good luck out there


Ordered one as well seems like a great concept, many riders don't understand the rating system and sign clarifies it for them


----------



## Matthew David

Coachman said:


> I don't consider it vague. And it's certainly not meaningless. We all know we have to maintain a minimum 4.6 to remain safe. What's vague or meaningless about that?
> 
> Everybody knows a 5.0 is perfect. A 4.9 is great. A 4.8 is pretty good. And a 4.75 is average. It's all perfectly understandable. In fact quite simple.


DUDE: consider this....

1) You or I will NOT change the rating system
2) Did you work at market research??... NO. 
no disrespect but A rider can only give you a five which is perfect or a four which is a Eff you. And no, you're wrong, they don't consider a 4.9+ is a 98%+ ... painting that fact out is MARKETING, i.e.: doing what Uber won't do for drivers. So point of this post was for you to take it on yourself in your own car.

3) Hang on for this one , no RIDER knows your min rating requirements! That is driver knowledge, not consumer knowledge.

4) The point of this entire thread was informing riders. They don't know a 4 is saying you suck, which it does.

5) i'm right and you're wrong . No disrespect but all your previous posts have indicated you don't know what you're talking about . We can discuss off-line if you like since I was trying to help other drivers by posting this.

6) Telling a rider how the rating system works is just smart.. saying "I just need 4.6 " which riders don't know, is Stupid. That also doesn't tell a rider a 4 = bad ride. Having a small sign takes the math out of it.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

The Gift of Fish said:


> None of this really matters because the 4.6 cutoff point is just as arbitrary as the ratings themselves. I believe they set the minimum at a level which will deactivate a certain target of drivers per month, maybe half a percent of the driver pool. If pax as a whole were suddenly to be made aware of 4* being bad and if overall ratings subsequently increased then Uber would simply raise the minimum to 4.7 or 4.8 to ensure that the bottom x percent of drivers continue to be cycled out of the driver pool.


Absolutely. Business School 101. It's the whole purpose of their rating systems. 
Riders identify who they feel are the good and bad drivers so the companies can drop the lowest rated and replace them with new recruits, which increases the perceived quality of the service.


----------



## luvgurl22

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


You're too "smart" & "reasonable" to work in HQ


----------



## Brian G.

Cool but I'm not that serious about putting any sign in my car. I've done over 5000 rides and I'm a 4.85 after 1 yr without even trying. I'm just a laid back dude driving people around for money.


----------



## EpicBeard

Dback2004 said:


> Turnover is obviously a problem for them


I don't think it's a problem at all. fact, I'm convinced that this is part of the business model. The less veteran drivers out there, the more noobs there are who accept a 25% cut for Uber and other miscellaneous lower standards and policies.


----------



## Coachman

Matthew David said:


> 5) i'm right and you're wrong . No disrespect but all your previous posts have indicated you don't know what you're talking about .


I've been on this board for a year and a half. I've seen a hundred people just like you come and go. Good luck educating the riders. lol


----------



## Dback2004

Michael - Cleveland said:


> That's what we have already... 2/3rds of riders don't bother to rate, and as the OP stated, those who have a complaint rate - those who don't, don't. I'm tired of being down-rated for things that are out of my control. I want the pax to rate UBER first - and then the driver.


I'd do it the opposite way. As previously mentioned, most people rate on a negative experience, not a positive one. Get rid of the stupid accolades buttons for "Excellent service!" "cool car!" etc. If a pax rates 4* or less, the second screen should be a list of buttons for why they rated less. Because any passenger rating a driver too low is probably going to want to complain more about specifically why. These would be the options they'd get to choose from if it was up to me:
1. (Surge) Pricing was too high
2. Driver took too long to get here
3. Too much traffic/GPS took inefficient route/Too many pool stops
4. Car or driver was too dirty/smelled/etc
5. Driver was rude
6. Driving style made me fear for my life.

Anytime a pax gives a 4* or less rating and the reason was 1-3 that rating is automatically thrown out or not applied to overall rating.


----------



## CelebDriver

I have my pamphlets and I went from a 4.63 to a 4.93. I know it is anecdotal but it is a starting point.


----------



## Dback2004

EpicBeard said:


> I don't think it's a problem at all. fact, I'm convinced that this is part of the business model. The less veteran drivers out there, the more noobs there are who accept a 25% cut for Uber and other miscellaneous lower standards and policies.


You may be right, but I'm not so sure. They spend an awful lot of capital recruiting drivers. I would lean more towards its an acceptable cost of doing business versus making the drivers happy rather than part of the business model.


----------



## CelebDriver

Dback2004 said:


> 1. (Surge) Pricing was too high
> 2. Driver took too long to get here
> 3. Too much traffic/GPS took inefficient route/Too many pool stops
> 4. Car or driver was too dirty/smelled/etc
> 5. Driver was rude
> 6. Driving style made me fear for my life.


The problem is that the list is infinite.

Wouldn't roll up the windows.
The music was too loud.
Wouldn't run the a/c.
Wouldn't run the heat.
Was on the phone the whole trip.
Couldn't find the airport even with the GPS.
Wouldn't go through the drive-thru.
Wouldn't stop at the liquor store and wait.
Car was too small to fit our party of 4.
Didn't help with the bags.
There was no phone charger.
There was no water or snacks.
Drove behind a diesel truck so I couldn't breathe.
etc. ...


----------



## Dback2004

CelebDriver said:


> The problem is that the list is infinite.


Yes, you'd never be able to account for every variable, unless the third screen was an optional comments field. I'm just trying to weed out the majority of issues the driver has no control of. It's all academic anyway, Uber will never change. But hypothetically, maybe something like this:
1. Surge/Pricing
2. Time to pickup too long
3. Traffic, Route, GPS, or Pool issue
4. Car or driver cleanliness issue
5. Unsafe driving
6. Other Customer Service Issue


----------



## steveK2016

CelebDriver said:


> The problem is that the list is infinite.
> 
> Wouldn't roll up the windows.
> The music was too loud.
> Wouldn't run the a/c.
> Wouldn't run the heat.
> Was on the phone the whole trip.
> Couldn't find the airport even with the GPS.
> Wouldn't go through the drive-thru.
> Wouldn't stop at the liquor store and wait.
> Car was too small to fit our party of 4.
> Didn't help with the bags.
> There was no phone charger.
> There was no water or snacks.
> Drove behind a diesel truck so I couldn't breathe.
> etc. ...


My solution is that every 1-4 star would require a comment with at least 100 chars for 4 star, 200 for 3 star and 300 for 1-2 star.

If they are that unsatisfied, they should explain why and go into more detail the worse they believe the offense. Of course Uber would never put this burden on the pax, they don't care what we're rated as long as the credit card clears, but this would be the ideal solution.

That way, when it's something stupid like "Surge Pricing" those are thrown out. If it's Driver was rude, then the rating stays.

Wouldn't wait, thrown out.
Didn't help with bags, thrown out.
Wouldn't let you fit 5 in an X, thrown out.
No water or chargers, thrown out.

Wishful thinking, I know...


----------



## X-Cabbie

Matthew David said:


> 5) i'm right and you're wrong . No disrespect but all your previous posts have indicated you don't know what you're talking about .





Coachman said:


> I've been on this board for a year and a half. I've seen a hundred people just like you come and go.


That doesn't mean you're right. It could be that you're the only person who's being paid to post here.


----------



## Coachman

X-Cabbie said:


> That doesn't mean you're right. It could be that you're the only person who's being paid to post here.


If you like the OP's post by all means put his sign up in your car. lol


----------



## X-Cabbie

Coachman said:


> Well posters like the OP seem to think that every ride they give should be rated 5 stars.


Posters like the OP want to avoid getting less than five-star ratings from pax who think three or four stars is a good rating, possibly to compete with other drivers who are already educating their riders.



> I don't think they've ever considered the consequences of that.


I'm pretty sure most posters on this website have considered the consequences of that, but it's not the responsibility of individual drivers to sacrifice themselves just to keep the average down.



> The bottom line is you don't have to worry about your rating unless you're in the bottom 10%.


The bottom line is that the current system rewards insecurity and butt-kissing. Even refusing to take extra riders is dangerous, because the customer could one-star you.



> And no matter how you tinker with the star ratings, there's always going to be a bottom 10%.


That's not a problem. The problem is that the current system rewards the wrong behaviors.



Coachman said:


> If you like the OP's post by all means put his sign up in your car. lol


I don't see anything funny about the idea. The higher it pushes the average, the more it will show people that the system is already broken.


----------



## UsedToBeAPartner

Lee239 said:


> They pretty much already have to. 4,6 rating means that 92% of people rated you with 5 stars on average if my math is right.


I doubt the math is right. I have a 4.87 rating and 93% are 5 star and 4% 4 star with 1% 3, 2 and 1.


----------



## Fernblatt

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


I made a similar placard. *MOST* of my riders had no idea that was how the system worked, and all have thanked me for the info! My score is back up to around 4.9 again thanks to that sign!

[EDIT: My particular sign doesn't beg for 5 stars, it simply explains how the ratings work, and how good drivers can be dropped while bad drivers can still be on the road.]

Tom in Hampton Roads


----------



## UsedToBeAPartner

There's only so much anyone can do to keep their rating at anything other than 4.8 - 4.9. I just got a note from a rider that they selected in the app saying I could have been more "professional". I won't know what they put for a rating for a few weeks when Uber decides to post my weekly reports but I am guessing it won't be good. Currently 10 weeks are showing on the ratings page with 8 weeks being 5 star and 1 is 4.8 and 1 is 4.57. Even if I get another 1 star from some idiot who was expecting a driver in coat and tie (no idea how anything I do while driving could be deemed unprofessional) it's not going to make any difference to my rating and it absolutely makes no difference to me! Hell, at least 1/2 these riders don't even own a car and they are going to rate how we drive? Give me a break!


----------



## Coachman

X-Cabbie said:


> The bottom line is that the current system rewards insecurity and butt-kissing. Even refusing to take extra riders is dangerous, because the customer could one-star you.


I don't butt kiss. I offer outstanding service. That means I load bags into the car. I open doors for people. If they have a request during the ride I do everything I can to accommodate them. I engage in polite conversation and take an interest in where they've been or where they're going. That's the kind of service I expect when I order an Uber. What services do you do that you'd put in the category of butt kissing?


----------



## UsedToBeAPartner

Coachman said:


> I don't butt kiss. I offer outstanding service. That means I load bags into the car. I open doors for people. If they have a request during the ride I do everything I can to accommodate them. That's the kind of service I expect when I order an Uber. What services do you do that you'd put in the category of butt kissing?


I do the same as you but still got the "unprofessional" rating. I don't feel like I am kissing butt when I am being courteous (and protecting my car) helping folks with luggage or opening or closing a door if I am passing by. I do make some bell boys mad (what are they called these days) as I either help or tell them I will handle the luggage. They could care even less about my car than my riders!


----------



## X-Cabbie

Coachman said:


> I offer outstanding service


... for less than minimum wage (after expenses, with no surge).



> That means I load bags into the car. I open doors for people. If they have a request during the ride I do everything I can to accommodate them. I engage in polite conversation and take an interest in where they've been or where they're going. That's the kind of service I expect when I order an Uber. What services do you do that you'd put in the category of butt kissing?


At Uber's current rates in most markets, I would say loading bags and opening doors without a decent surge is definitely butt kissing. At least in the taxi business we made decent rates and had a good chance of getting a tip.


----------



## Beur

Coachman said:


> 4.9 = A
> 4.8 = B
> 4.7 = C
> 4.6 = D
> <4.6 = F


This right here is what's wrong with Uber

4.8 is 96% which is still an A
4.7 is 94% which is still an A
4.6 is 92% which is still an A
4.5 is 90% which is still an A

You don't hit a failing grade until you drop to 3.4 which is 68%. 4.5 is 70%. 70% while a C is still a passing grade in academics.


----------



## Coachman

Beur said:


> This right here is what's wrong with Uber
> 
> 4.8 is 96% which is still an A
> 4.7 is 94% which is still an A
> 4.6 is 92% which is still an A
> 4.5 is 90% which is still an A
> 
> You don't hit a failing grade until you drop to 3.4 which is 68%. 4.5 is 70%. 70% while a C is still a passing grade in academics.


Don't you think there's something wrong if everybody in the class earns an A? That's why you grade on a curve.


----------



## CelebDriver

Coachman said:


> Don't you think there's something wrong if everybody in the class earns an A? That's why you grade on a curve.


If everyone got an A there would be too much damn happiness.


----------



## Coachman

CelebDriver said:


> If everyone got an A there would be too much damn happiness.


Why would the good drivers be happy if the bad drivers get an A?


----------



## UsedToBeAPartner

X-Cabbie said:


> ... for less than minimum wage (after expenses, with no surge).
> 
> At Uber's current rates in most markets, I would say loading bags and opening doors without a decent surge is definitely butt kissing. At least in the taxi business we made decent rates and had a good chance of getting a tip.


Since this is YOUR car and not a taxi, are you at all interested in ensuring that your cheap ass riders don't F up your car? I am so I load and unload the luggage. Might not make sense to you but that's OK. It just happens to not make any sense to me to let the morons that I drive ruin my car.


----------



## X-Cabbie

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Since this is YOUR car and not a taxi, are you at all interested in ensuring that your cheap ass riders don't F up your car?


It depends on what they have. The point is that I only load for my own reasons or if there's a surge, not because I want to provide "outstanding service" for $5 an hour.


----------



## ntcindetroit

Fishchris said:


> I think this is a great idea.... "except" for myself anyway, driving mostly at night, nobody would ever see this sign "unless" I add it as a screen shot on my tablet, which I think I will be getting in the next couple days....
> 
> But hey, looking closer, I'm wondering in 4, 3, 2, and 1 should read any different ??? I'm thinking, they should all says, "Driver should be deactivated".... Just to drive home the point, that anything less than 5 stars, will eventually get you deactivated.... and is basically all the same...
> Make sense ?
> 
> I think my sign will read:
> 
> 5 star: Anywhere from just acceptable, to over the top awesome !
> 
> 4 star or below: Driver should be deactivated.


Put that sign into trash can. Riders are not qualified to read, not mention to rate driver or their own experience. They are all on some kind of Uber drinks. Shall we supply our own free DRINKS to them?



Coachman said:


> Why would the good drivers be happy if the bad drivers get an A?


It's none of their biz.



Coachman said:


> Why would the good drivers be happy if the bad drivers get an A?


Because we'll have many bad drivers keeps coming until riders, good or bad, start to learn to read and refuse to rate.


----------



## Cableguynoe

X-Cabbie said:


> not because I want to provide "outstanding service" for $5 an hour.


I really hate this mentality of so many drivers. Yes, we are underpaid. But you should take pride in your work(any work) and provide "outstanding service" regardless of if you're working at a fast food restaurant, selling multi million dollar homes, or driving for UBER. 
Take some pride in what you do and provide some outstanding service. Regardless of the pay. 
I hate to say this but it's probably because of this attitude that many have no choice to but drive, even though they hate UBER. They can't get past an interview or hold a real job too long.


----------



## ntcindetroit

Profiteer said:


> Ubers rating system is probably the stupidest Ive ever seen.
> 5 stars is good/great. 4 stars or less = Horrible.
> 
> I rate Ubers Rating System 1 Star


Out of courtesy, we'd rate it 4 stars.


----------



## X-Cabbie

Cableguynoe said:


> I really hate this mentality of so many drivers.
> Take some pride in what you do and provide some outstanding service. Regardless of the pay.


The slave hates the mentality of the freeman. The slave has lost his manhood and resents the free man's dignity.


----------



## Harry Seaward

So far it seems people that have taken to educating their pax about the rating system have seen a 0.1-0.15 star increase. With 4.6 as the alleged cutoff for deactivation, who cares if you go from a 4.75 to a 4.85 or 4.9? In other words, is there any reward that a 4.9 driver would get that a 4.75 driver would not?


----------



## ntcindetroit

Cableguynoe said:


> I really hate this mentality of so many drivers. Yes, we are underpaid. But you should take pride in your work(any work) and provide "outstanding service" regardless of if you're working at a fast food restaurant, selling multi million dollar homes, or driving for UBER.
> Take some pride in what you do and provide some outstanding service. Regardless of the pay.
> I hate to say this but it's probably because of this attitude that many have no choice to but drive, even though they hate UBER. They can't get past an interview or hold a real job too long.


People hate Uber driver job, because they were misidentified as Uber taxi drivers. Uber has failed to established its identity and get into cheapest price war too soon to be the loss leader of all forms of transportation run by a for profit institution without maturity.


----------



## Coachman

X-Cabbie said:


> The slave hates the mentality of the freeman. The slave has lost his manhood and resents the free man's dignity.


So as you stand there watching an old lady struggle to put her luggage in your trunk you are expressing your free man's dignity? roflol


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Harry Seaward said:


> So far it seems people that have taken to educating their pax about the rating system have seen a 0.1-0.15 star increase. With 4.6 as the alleged cutoff for deactivation, who cares if you go from a 4.75 to a 4.85 or 4.9? In other words, is there any reward that a 4.9 driver would get that a 4.75 driver would not?


In some markets it can mean the difference between being able to drive SELECT/LUX or not. 
Keeping a rating of 4.7 or above is serious business for some drivers.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

I too wish to partake in this flame war, pax knows and pax does not care if they are mad at anything (for the most part), the only thing you did with your sign is remind the passenger to rate, that can be done verbal every time.

In truth, it's rare to see 2-3-4 rates (these are picky hipsters attempting to look like they have actual judgment potential), it's either a 1 or a 5 or nothing.

We wouldn't need a sign if Uber would assume non rated rides are automatic 5's, stop telling pax how badly they can destroy your rate by putting a 1, they think it's just a number that eventually becomes relevant if stacked, let them be mad and impotent when they rated 1 star, you are giving them a sense of satisfaction by emaducation when knowing they can get you fired that easily.

Try this test, instead of putting that, put a sign that says: PLEASE RATE IF YOU ENJOYED THE RIDE, you'll find yourself 5 starred most of the time (provided you don't **** up).

When I go down .2 due to a couple of 1 stars (kicked out/told pax to shove it), that's what I do and I am back to normal within 3 days.


----------



## roadman

the Uber shills love to talk about ratings. real drivers don't ever mention. we mention tips and rate increases. stuff that matters.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

roadman said:


> the Uber shills love to talk about ratings. real drivers don't ever mention. we mention tips and rate increases. stuff that matters.


thanks for telling 'real' drivers what we think - and calling everyone who disagrees with you a 'shill'... 'cause that lets us know how highly you think of yourself and how lowly you think of the rest of us.

FYI: ratings matter a lot to 'real' drivers who depend on their rating to be able to earn a living (ie: SELECT)


----------



## roadman

Michael - Cleveland said:


> thanks for telling of us 'real' drivers what we think - and calling everyone who disagrees with you a 'shill'... 'cause that lets us know how highly you think of yourself and how lowly you think of the rest of us.
> 
> FYI: ratings matter a lot to 'real' drivers who depend on their rating to be able to earn a living (ie: SELECT)


It sounds like we both agree about the importance of the pay rate.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

roadman said:


> It sounds like we both agree about the importance of the pay rate.


That we do!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

ntcindetroit said:


> Man, Is your job security based on your job skill, but not rating designed by moron(s)? Look at my 5-star. It's total against American working ethics to use a defective system to keep desperate drivers in fear. It's going to back fire. We see it in commercial drivers' world. Bus driver took whole bus and tourist from 5-star country to their final destination directly. If you love being rated by your raters, you should have no fear. Just tell X-rated riders don't expect their X-rated ride is just as good as you can be but cost 1/2, 1/4 or 1/10th only.


Using that logic (if I understand your point correctly), riders should just tell their X drivers not to expect a 5 star rating from them because they are driving X and not SELECT or XL or BLACK.


----------



## Coachman

roadman said:


> the Uber shills love to talk about ratings. real drivers don't ever mention. we mention tips and rate increases. stuff that matters.


Then you don't have much to talk about, do you.


----------



## roadman

Coachman said:


> Then you don't have much to talk about, do you.


got some good tips on Lyft today.


----------



## JimKE

I was talking about ratings with a pax today -- he brought up the subject, saying he noticed my rating was very high.

His BROTHER drives for Uber...but:

He did not know that HE has a rating as a pax, and
He did not know that 4-stars is an "F" for a driver
When I told him the significance of 4.6, he was in such total disbelief that he called his brother...who thankfully knew, and confirmed it.


----------



## ntcindetroit

I was approved for driving, Not sure based on what I have, but I don't know what Uber's 5 star is different from the 5 stars on my avatar.
2. I don't know as a driver, I have to rate every Uber Rider with what criteria, 3. I even did not know what the minimum eq. I need. I was told to download the App and start driving. I did play dumb until I found out they only pay me the first week $2.88 for most trips. Not because they were minimum fare trips, but they received no distance data and erroneous trip completion data for at least a week. No one tell me anything until I went to Green Light hub and was forbid to discuss the issues with their "Building Manager" by security guard. By that time, I've completed more than 100 trips and the CSR was nicely asked if I have download their App yet. With this level of service, they deem I insult their employee and throw me out their unofficially occupied space. [ Disclaimer, Above scenario is a drama replay, not really happened as far as we know. No investigation is needed. All riders were safely insured by Uber's 1 million policy at all times regardless my personal auto policy coverage or carrier]
I tried to recall what happened as I need to go to court for a charge I want to dispute, not because the accounting error(I don't care if I was short changed), but I believe the people of city has wrongfully charged the wrong party for an event/incident I 'm not personally 100% responsible as I was told to pick a party 3:00 am in a cold morning(16°F ) in Midwest in a city/street/road I've not visited before even during the day light after a string of strange riders' requests. Drunkard and weird I encountered that night through must/may have affected my judgement when a poor traffic engineered intersection caused my Uber vehicle at TNC2 to almost kill an officer in a cruiser. I do this to bring the public awareness of the risk/danger of TNC rides at 24/7 and all insurance issues. Trial date not set yet. Official charge unknown at this moment.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> In truth, it's rare to see 2-3-4 rates (these are picky hipsters attempting to look like they have actual judgment potential), it's either a 1 or a 5 or nothing.


The reason its rare to see 2,3 and 4's is because most people don't want to waste their time with a survey(even though uber's is probably the shortest one ever) for average service. 
2,3 and 4's is what most people expect with any kind of service. People are inclined to take surveys when they get outstanding service(5) or terrible service(1). In reality most UBER rides are 2,3 or 4, which is why the majority or UBER rides aren't rated. 
Personally I feel silly asking the pax to rate me a 5 if all I did was drive them from A to B, and I did nothing outstanding. That's not a 5.

This is what I think UBER should do. Eliminate the 4.6 and above requirement( if that is what I'm fact it is). 
Warn and go after drivers with multiple ones. Of course if there's a specific complaint, they need to investigate. But if they just left a 1 star, then maybe it's something like 3 1 stars in 90 days gets you 30 suspension. Something like that.



Jesusdrivesuber said:


> We wouldn't need a sign if Uber would assume non rated rides are automatic 5's,


Every ride shouldn't be considered a 5. But by booting people at 4.6, then UBER is expecting nothing but 5's. But pax don't see it that way. The fact that they don't rate is proof. Ride wasn't good enough to rate, or bad enough to rate.


----------



## JimKE

I've had a LOT of riders tell me they thought star ratings were like either:

Hotel ratings, where only the most luxurious resorts are rated 5 stars, or
School Grades: 5 = A, 4 = B, etc.
In either system, a 4-star rating is a darn solid score. When you tell them 4 = F, they are amazed.


----------



## Coachman

JimKE said:


> I've had a LOT of riders tell me they thought star ratings were like either:
> 
> Hotel ratings, where only the most luxurious resorts are rated 5 stars, or
> School Grades: 5 = A, 4 = B, etc.
> In either system, a 4-star rating is a darn solid score. When you tell them 4 = F, they are amazed.


But we know for a fact that about 90% of riders rate 5 stars. So your "a LOT" can't be that much.


----------



## JimKE

Coachman said:


> But we know for a fact that about 90% of riders rate 5 stars. So your "a LOT" can't be that much.


Not in my experience. What I've seen is that only about 50% rate at all, so most of them are clueless. And that's a LOT of pax.


----------



## yeahTHATuberGVL

Coachman said:


> If you're below a 4.6 you're a problem driver.


Same should apply to the rider. A rider below a 4.6 didn't get there for nothing. For all our talk, most drivers hand out 5 stars like it's Halloween candy.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

yeahTHATuberGVL said:


> Same should apply to the rider. A rider below a 4.6 didn't get there for nothing. For all our talk, most drivers hand out 5 stars like it's Halloween candy.


Not me, I hand out 2's and 3's mostly when outside my tip filtered area.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Cableguynoe said:


> Every ride shouldn't be considered a 5. But by booting people at 4.6, then UBER is expecting nothing but 5's.


Well, as anyone who works with large numbers and performance stats can tell you (and many here have), that's not what's actually happening. Uber periodically 'thins' the driver pool by knocking out the lowest rated drivers and recruiting new drivers to replace those deactivated. This has the effect of raising the 'average rating of all drivers'.

4.6 is just the number that gets talked about a lot because apparently that's about where the line falls, in general, when Uber looks to see at what rating level the lowest x% of drivers fall in a market. This is not something cooked up by Uber - it's a standard and widely used business practice employed to keep the quality of service high.


----------



## ntcindetroit

Coachman said:


> But we know for a fact that about 90% of riders rate 5 stars. So your "a LOT" can't be that much.


 What fact? an audit report by any credible accounting firms or polls? We UberPeople are just clueless and speechless and act like 5-star people all over the world.


----------



## CaliUberGirl

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


I'd like to tweet your sign...is that ok? How can I credit you in my tweet?

Also...can you post a pic if your lil rule sign there too?

Thanks! ☺


----------



## Gooberlifturwallet

Coachman said:


> This is just not true. If they weren't disappointed with something about the ride they'd give it a five. Something you've done is less than the five star service they got from the last driver. Maybe your car isn't as nice. Maybe they don't care for the music you're playing. Maybe they think you're a bit heavy on the brake or the accelerator. You might believe the ride was perfect but the passenger didn't. I drive a nine year old PT Cruiser. I'm certain I get dinged for the car.
> 
> What makes you think someone who didn't rate was happy with the trip?


Hey goober shill you missed the point completely. 5 stars you keep working. Four stars you get fired. Or should I say terminated?


----------



## brendon292

steveK2016 said:


> 5 Star: I arrived at my destination in a timely manner


...and if there is heavy traffic or you are rerouted by no fault of your own? I know it seems crazy to think there are people out there stupid enough to rate you low for that, but there is.


----------



## ntcindetroit

brendon292 said:


> ...and if there is heavy traffic or you are rerouted by no fault of your own? I know it seems crazy to think there are people out there stupid enough to rate you low for that, but there is.


We are going to court to see how Jason Dalton was rated before the tragedy. Could it be he was wrongfully rated?


----------



## brendon292

ntcindetroit said:


> We are going to court to see how Jason Dalton was rated before the tragedy. Could it be he was wrongfully rated?


Huh?


----------



## Coachman

Gooberlifturwallet said:


> Hey goober shill you missed the point completely. 5 stars you keep working. Four stars you get fired. Or should I say terminated?
> View attachment 109169


Four stars doesn't get you fired. Every driver gets four stars now and then. An aggregate rating that puts you in the bottom 10% of all drivers gets you fired. Rightly so.


----------



## Go4

Enough 4 stars get you fired. Lots of pax saying you're above the average of 3 gets you fired though.
4 stars is above average and will get you fired.


----------



## ntcindetroit

Go4 said:


> Enough 4 stars get you fired. Lots of pax saying you're above the average of 3 gets you fired though.
> 4 stars is above average and will get you fired.


Dude, there are people driving around with 3 stars, what do you say?


----------



## ParrotFish

I ordered an uber for a friend. He was 3.69 Friend said he was terrible.


----------



## ntcindetroit

ParrotFish said:


> I ordered an uber for a friend. He was 3.69 Friend said he was terrible.


We test if riders know how to rate our driver employees. We don't have any one with 3.69 on staff though. you liar. Actually it's against TOS to listen to your friend's word. Your friend suppose to rate the driver with 6 stars as unacceptable


----------



## ParrotFish

sarasota said:


> i find people that tell me they are going to give me a 5 don't tip. I would rather a tip. Some people just do not give 5's because believe nothing is perfect. Traffic or music played can influence. Uber really needs to just let riders tip online like lyft does. Many think ratings are same as tipping.


O


ntcindetroit said:


> We test if riders know how to rate our driver employees. We don't have any one with 3.69 on staff though. you liar. Actually it's against TOS to listen to your friend's word. Your friend suppose to rate the driver with 6 stars as unacceptable


as i said i ordered on my account. 3.69 stars.


----------



## mikejm

Coachman said:


> If you owned a restaurant, would you want a bunch of 3 waitresses working there or would you want 5s?


If you owned a restaurant you wouldn't buy any of the food, your waitresses would buy it, prepare it and then serve it and you would set the price and there would be no tipping allowed.



Coachman said:


> Four stars doesn't get you fired. Every driver gets four stars now and then. An aggregate rating that puts you in the bottom 10% of all drivers gets you fired. Rightly so.


The longer you drive the closer to the bottom 10% you will eventually get. New drivers are in the top 1% initially. There are constantly new drivers hired that keep pushing seasoned drivers lower. They start with 5 stars. The lowest rated drivers have driven the longest, the highest rated drivers started more recently. If you drove every day for 10 years you would have a 4.0 rating.


----------



## ntcindetroit

ParrotFish said:


> O
> 
> as i said i ordered on my account. 3.69 stars.


Your app is defective. Uber USA do not have driver on staff with rating 3.69. Is that 3.69 from your rider's rating. Yeah, you right, you oder an Uber when your rating is 3.69.



mikejm said:


> ..... If you drove every day for 10 years you would have a 4.0 rating.





> We beta test your theory, you'll get a ransomware before you hit 4.0.


----------



## mikejm

After you get 500 rated trips, any low rating will most likely replace five star and your five stars will likely replace five stars. You will not be able to raise your rating each time it goes down by .01. You will get ten or twenty five stars in a row and no change, but one low rating and down it goes.

It's not hard to be on the bottom ten percent when the top 80 percent have less than 500 rated trips. About half of the drives are new and will quit driving before they ever get to 4.8, they will be counted in the top 90% with their low trip count, and more will be added all starting at 5 stars. The more you drive the closer you keep getting to the bottom 10.



Coachman said:


> So as you stand there watching an old lady struggle to put her luggage in your trunk you are expressing your free man's dignity? roflol


No you help the old lady out. She says thank you, she does not rate you or tip you. Then you pick up some punk who gets food crumbs all over your of your car, gives you one star, then goes and writes his name on a building. That is the reality, and you are the problem with Uber so Spin Off.


----------



## Matthew David

CaliUberGirl said:


> I'd like to tweet your sign...is that ok? How can I credit you in my tweet?
> 
> Also...can you post a pic if your lil rule sign there too?
> 
> Thanks! ☺


You can just it out as "Matt, an Uber Driver based mostly in Boulder CO" ... and just let me know your twitter since I don't have one  I'm flattered !!


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> If you owned a restaurant you wouldn't buy any of the food, your waitresses would buy it, prepare it and then serve it and you would set the price and there would be no tipping allowed.


Who do you think pays for that billion dollar software and technology system that connects you with your rider?



> The longer you drive the closer to the bottom 10% you will eventually get. New drivers are in the top 1% initially. There are constantly new drivers hired that keep pushing seasoned drivers lower. They start with 5 stars. The lowest rated drivers have driven the longest, the highest rated drivers started more recently. If you drove every day for 10 years you would have a 4.0 rating.


BS. Some of the old time pro drivers have a 4.95 rating. I've been driving for 1.5 years and I've got a 4.9.


----------



## Gooberlifturwallet

ntcindetroit said:


> I was approved for driving, Not sure based on what I have, but I don't know what Uber's 5 star is different from the 5 stars on my avatar.
> 2. I don't know as a driver, I have to rate every Uber Rider with what criteria, 3. I even did not know what the minimum eq. I need. I was told to download the App and start driving. I did play dumb until I found out they only pay me the first week $2.88 for most trips. Not because they were minimum fare trips, but they received no distance data and erroneous trip completion data for at least a week. No one tell me anything until I went to Green Light hub and was forbid to discuss the issues with their "Building Manager" by security guard. By that time, I've completed more than 100 trips and the CSR was nicely asked if I have download their App yet. With this level of service, they deem I insult their employee and throw me out their unofficially occupied space. [ Disclaimer, Above scenario is a drama replay, not really happened as far as we know. No investigation is needed. All riders were safely insured by Uber's 1 million policy at all times regardless my personal auto policy coverage or carrier]
> I tried to recall what happened as I need to go to court for a charge I want to dispute, not because the accounting error(I don't care if I was short changed), but I believe the people of city has wrongfully charged the wrong party for an event/incident I 'm not personally 100% responsible as I was told to pick a party 3:00 am in a cold morning(16°F ) in Midwest in a city/street/road I've not visited before even during the day light after a string of strange riders' requests. Drunkard and weird I encountered that night through must/may have affected my judgement when a poor traffic engineered intersection caused my Uber vehicle at TNC2 to almost kill an officer in a cruiser. I do this to bring the public awareness of the risk/danger of TNC rides at 24/7 and all insurance issues. Trial date not set yet. Official charge unknown at this moment.


WTF? So you wreck your car almost almost killing a cop and it's a traffic light's or stop sign's fault? Welcome to America This ain't Mogadishu.











yeahTHATuberGVL said:


> Same should apply to the rider. A rider below a 4.6 didn't get there for nothing. For all our talk, most drivers hand out 5 stars like it's Halloween candy.


Rating the passengers means nothing to uber. Rating the drivers allows them to eliminate people assure turn over and maintain a herd of clueless newbies driving.


----------



## mikejm

Coachman said:


> Who do you think pays for that billion dollar software and technology system that connects you with your rider?
> 
> BS. Some of the old time pro drivers have a 4.95 rating. I've been driving for 1.5 years and I've got a 4.9.


I call BS on you. If you keep pressure on the curve by adding new 5 stars drivers you are shifting the curve towards 5 stars by constantly repopulating that end of the curve. The longer you stay on the curve the further you will slide away from the lopsided bell. Different drivers will slide away at different rates but they will all keep sliding and not recover. You don't have an honest curve, you have rigged the curve purposely.

This is a company run by anti social elitists. They purchase sex slaves for their top management. They are dirty people. And you are shill which makes you a dirty person also.


----------



## uberpoolfool

Coachman said:


> 4.9 = A
> 4.8 = B
> 4.7 = C
> 4.6 = D
> <4.6 = F


I'm at 4.39, still active, what is my scale?


----------



## Kembolicous

5 stars, ride got me there in one piece. 4 and below??? KILL THIS DRIVER NOW! Damn I hate their silly rating fiasco.



Lee239 said:


> The system makes no sense, lets say you only do this part time. Only some of the people rate you and you get four 5 star ratings and one 1 star rating because you didin't want to stop at a drive thru, you are down to 4.0


People tend to whine and complain more than they compliment. I work an area that has business, but there are too many pieces of trash that rate low, due to my paint job, or because I am out of homemade cookies. My ratings suck, because of a few A-holes. At this same time, when I get pickups away from the bad area, ratings will improve. It only takes a couple to screw up everything.


----------



## mikejm

I don't care how good you are, your ratings will always be on a downward trend and will never go back up because it is rigged to be like that. They have inflated the average, more five star data points keep getting added to one end of the scale, so the average is constantly pulled towards five stars. A real lifetime average would be around 4.3 for almost all drivers. The average stays at about 4.8 because new 5 star drives keep getting added but if they stopped doing that it would be around 4.3. Furthermore your ratings are based on 500 trips, each time you get a 5 it is highly probable that it will not affect your average over that 500 trips and each time you get anything lower it is equally probable that you traded a five star rating from the pasr with a new lower rating. So every time you get rated you are jut hoping to stay even and not go down once you have 500 trips. The system is designed to deactivate and replace you after one year. Uber does not want a permanent work force, they want you for one year, no more.


----------



## Kembolicous

mikejm said:


> I don't care how good you are, your ratings will always be on a downward trend and will never go back up because it is rigged to be like that. They have inflated the average, more five star data points keep getting added to one end of the scale, so the average is constantly pulled towards five stars. A real lifetime average would be around 4.3 for almost all drivers. The average stays at about 4.8 because new 5 star drives keep getting added but if they stopped doing that it would be around 4.3. Furthermore your ratings are based on 500 trips, each time you get a 5 it is highly probable that it will not affect your average over that 500 trips and each time you get anything lower it is equally probable that you traded a five star rating from the pasr with a new lower rating. So every time you get rated you are jut hoping to stay even and not go down once you have 500 trips. The system is designed to deactivate and replace you after one year. Uber does not want a permanent work force, they want you for one year, no more.


Man, another aspect into Uber's lowlife scumbag operation. Despicable.


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> I call BS on you. If you keep pressure on the curve by adding new 5 stars drivers you are shifting the curve towards 5 stars by constantly repopulating that end of the curve. The longer you stay on the curve the further you will slide away from the lopsided bell. Different drivers will slide away at different rates but they will all keep sliding and not recover. You don't have an honest curve, you have rigged the curve purposely.
> 
> This is a company run by anti social elitists. They purchase sex slaves for their top management. They are dirty people. And you are shill which makes you a dirty person also.


Troll.


----------



## mikejm

Coachman said:


> Troll.


Everything I said is true. You are a liar because you claim that the average is from identical data points. In order for that to be true each data point would need to have the same number of rides, so your average is not an average at all. Most of the data points have under a hundred rides but they carry equal weight in your fake average on your manipulated curve that data point with 1800 rides has. You don't even have a bell curve, the real curve looks like a half bell and is shifted all the way to the right because you keep pouring new 5 star data points with no rides like water flowing into a toilet.

Uber is run by anti social elitists and they certainly are abusive personalities. They did use prostitutes, ie sex slaves, in a Karaoke Bar as a reward for high performance. That is who we work for and who you cheer lead for. Are you really Andrea Huffington?

Uber has always had an anti driver culture where drivers are bad guys. It was marketed that way. Travis has made many disparaging remarks about taxi divers. Uber is a taxi company and Uber drivers are taxi drivers. This is taxi driving. You can call it "ridesharing" or anything else but it is still taxi driving. It is unlicensed taxi driving because the courts don't care about the law anymore, below market rides for drunk businessmen are more important than laws or abused drivers. Money is more important than human life.

It's okay to admit that you are schill when it is obvious. You could be out schilling for something more worthy though. Maybe you want to be rewarded karaoke style, who knows?


----------



## Trafficat

uberpoolfool said:


> I'm at 4.39, still active, what is my scale?


I think it varies by market what exact ratings cutoff. And I also wouldn't be surprised if there is some weighting to it. Judging from the username, I take it you like pool rides? Probably your pool rides are keeping your rating low, and Uber takes that into account if they are smart. I know they weigh surge and non-surge ratings differently in their deactivation cutoff.

If Uber was smart, they'd be very lenient with Pool drivers. Pool drivers are their best money sources. Their commission from an UberX ride might be 30%, but their commission from a pool chain is probably like 80%+ since you only get about 70% of the fare of one rider while they get 100% of the fare that the other 3 people in the car are paying.


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> Everything I said is true. You are a liar because you claim that the average is from identical data points. In order for that to be true each data point would need to have the same number of rides, so your average is not an average at all. Most of the data points have under a hundred rides but they carry equal weight in your fake average on your manipulated curve that data point with 1800 rides has. You don't even have a bell curve, the real curve looks like a half bell and is shifted all the way to the right because you keep pouring new 5 star data points with no rides like water flowing into a toilet.
> 
> Uber is run by anti social elitists and they certainly are abusive personalities. They did use prostitutes, ie sex slaves, in a Karaoke Bar as a reward for high performance. That is who we work for and who you cheer lead for. Are you really Andrea Huffington?
> 
> Uber has always had an anti driver culture where drivers are bad guys. It was marketed that way. Travis has made many disparaging remarks about taxi divers. Uber is a taxi company and Uber drivers are taxi drivers. This is taxi driving. You can call it "ridesharing" or anything else but it is still taxi driving. It is unlicensed taxi driving because the courts don't care about the law anymore, below market rides for drunk businessmen are more important than laws or abused drivers. Money is more important than human life.
> 
> It's okay to admit that you are schill when it is obvious. You could be out schilling for something more worthy though. Maybe you want to be rewarded karaoke style, who knows?


If you believe all this and continue to drive for Uber you must have some sort of personality disorder. If you're no longer driving for Uber why dirty yourself by hanging out on this board?


----------



## mikejm

Coachman said:


> If you believe all this and continue to drive for Uber you must have some sort of personality disorder. If you're no longer driving for Uber why dirty yourself by hanging out on this board?


Nobody that disagree's with you should drive and they should all get off this board.

And yes, statistics is hard and it is easy to use statistics to lie.


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> Nobody that disagree's with you should drive and they should all get off this board.
> 
> And yes, statistics is hard and it is easy to use statistics to lie.


Anybody who disagrees with you is a shill.


----------



## Rat

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


Anything below a 5 is "terminate the driver"


----------



## mikejm

You keep supporting your position with false statistics. Your entire theses has been smashed into smithereens. You cannot say where the bottom 10% exists anymore. I speculate that the mean ratings would fall at 4.3, that would put the bottom 10% at somewhere below 4. The only way to know for sure would be to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The current representation doesn't yield that information.

And I say it is by design. You say that makes me disordered. But Uber is not the only company that intentionally churns out its work force to avoid having a permanent work force. Permanent workers deserve benefits, salaries, employee status- things Uber doesn't believe taxi drivers should be getting. Uber has figured out ways of getting rid of it's resident workforce that other companies haven't, through the app, using ratings and false metrics. Other companies just fire them.

It is cheaper to pay 500 for a new worker they can use for 6 months to a year than to have a long term relationship with a worker that begins to resemble an employee. Replace them all.


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> You keep supporting your position with false statistics.


I've never provided any statistics. I said the rating system is a bell curve. I never claimed it was a perfect bell curve. Uber has advertised that the cutoff for bottom 10% is a 4.6. I don't claim that to be a fact either. It may well have changed. Or Uber may be keeping more bad drivers. But what is certain is that good drivers (and there are many on this board) tend to have high ratings and keep them high. And no driver needs to worry about deactivation unless they're really bad in some way.

Your claim that every driver's rating must decline over time is patently false. For some drivers that's true. For many it's not.


----------



## mikejm

You cited false statistics. It is not a Bell curve. You can't beat me at anything math.

You should at least admit that I destroyed the claim that Uber is culling the bottom 10%. It is obvious what they are doing as far as the ratings distribution goes- they are artificially inflating the high rated driver end of the curve. I have proven that. It is indisputable.

On motive I can only speculate. But it's not hard to do. They have shouted from the roof tops that they do not want employee drivers. The longer you remain on their work force the more you start resembling an employee. Most IC's work on a contract that ENDS. If you don't end it on your own then they need to figure out how to get rid of you. 

The ethical solution for them would be to just put a time limit on how long you are allowed to be a driver. Because that is what this is really about with the ratings.

Another thing they could do is renew your contract once a year. Then they could renegotiate based on your annual ratings. And then your ratings could be weighed against the ratings of all the other contracts being renewed that day. You would be compared to everyone in your area that worked the same period you did.


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> You cited false statistics. It is not a Bell curve. You can't beat me at anything math.
> 
> You should at least admit that I destroyed the claim that Uber is culling the bottom 10%. It is obvious what they are doing as far as the ratings distribution goes- they are artificially inflating the high rated driver end of the curve. I have proven that. It is indisputable.


Your claim was that a drivers rating must decline over time and that in the long run, all long-term drivers will be culled due to poor performance. That was you claim and it's just wrong.


----------



## mikejm

Of course I would use other metrics along with pax ratings in the renegotiation. The fact that they don't do something like this tells me that Uber doesn't take any of their drivers or their operations very seriously. They are half assing it.



Coachman said:


> Your claim was that a drivers rating must decline over time and that in the long run, all long-term drivers will be culled due to poor performance. That was you claim and it's just wrong.


 They will be. You will eventually be culled to if you drive long enough. I don't know what market you drive in or your trip count. You may be a better driver than most, maybe you are the best driver they ever had, but you cannot control the whims of all your pax and Uber has tilted the curve away from you. Eventually you will get fired, it might take longer, but it is like a black hole and there is an event horizon and you will be swallowed up, it is your Uber destiny.


----------



## Coachman

mikejm said:


> Of course I would use other metrics along with pax ratings in the renegotiation. The fact that they don't do something like this tells me that Uber doesn't take any of their drivers or their operations very seriously. They are half assing it.
> 
> They will be. You will eventually be culled to if you drive long enough. I don't know what market you drive in or your trip count. You may be a better driver than most, maybe you are the best driver they ever had, but you cannot control the whims of all your pax and Uber has tilted the curve away from you. Eventually you will get fired, it might take longer, but it is like a black hole and there is an event horizon and you will be swallowed up, it is your Uber destiny.


My past 100 ratings are a 4.89. I've done just over 1,000 trips part time.


----------



## mikejm

Coachman said:


> Your claim was that a drivers rating must decline over time and that in the long run, all long-term drivers will be culled due to poor performance. That was you claim and it's just wrong.


Ratings based deactivation is not your ally. You are a good driver so it would be better if you were able to renegotiate your contract annually. You would be compared to all the other contracts in your area being renewed that day, you would be in the top level and be positioned for higher compensation. You are getting screwed by this system even if your rate of descent is slower than those around you.

Driving part time helps given the same number of rides you will get higher ratings and give more quality rides if you don't do it every day and you work shorter hours. If you are in a busy market like LA and pull 12 hours all week you will see that 4.89 get slaughtered.

What if instead of a puny 500.00 sign up you got your annual bonus when you renewed? As an IC it would make perfect sense to have an annual renewal and have it based on a much broader range of metrics than a pax rating. The bottom line is how profitable were you for Uber? Were the pax happy? Did you have any accidents? Did you generate income?


----------



## corniilius

I'm usually 4.8 or above, so not much to worry about here.


----------



## Caroline O'Donovan

Matthew David said:


> I'll let you know every week how ratings change based on this sign.
> 
> Since we know Uber is not going to properly inform riders, and most riders don't understand the Effed up star rating system (I'm doing this since I got laid off but worked in consumer market research with 9 and 5 point Scales on the daily)
> 
> In the consumer research/stats world, a 5 point scale is used as a JAR (just about right) with the 3 or middle as ideal... or as an intensity scale (extremely, very, somewhat, slightly, not at all)
> 
> Riders that give a 4 are not disappointed.. and also riders that don't rate a ride, statistically should be a 5 towards the driver since not complaining means satisfaction in the service world.
> 
> Uber should hire me at HQ but for now... this is my personal fix.
> 
> Having this in my car for a day has blown pax minds. They don't realize a 4= "eff you driver". Be your own Uber marketer since they suck obviously and tweak/provide recommendations.
> View attachment 107907


Hi Matthew! I'm a reporter with BuzzFeed News. I'm wondering if you'd be okay with me publishing this in a story about ratings? Feel free to email me: [email protected]. Thanks!


----------



## Coachman

Caroline O'Donovan said:


> Hi Matthew! I'm a reporter with BuzzFeed News. I'm wondering if you'd be okay with me publishing this in a story about ratings? Feel free to email me: [email protected]. Thanks!


Good story ideas: 55 y/o woman throws up out your rear window for 25 miles. Cops pull you over and drug dog alerts on your car. Young man asks you to take him to someplace "cruisy."


----------



## Anong

Coachman said:


> Young man asks you to take him to someplace "cruisy."


What does this mean?


----------



## Matthew David

Here is Caroline's article... Some of your signs may be in here too

https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/the-fault-in-five-stars?utm_term=.swdJJ9qMOY#.oeX11KJxBM


----------



## Coachman

Anong said:


> What does this mean?


Gay lingo.


----------



## burgerflipper

im going to be putting a sign somewhere in my car, describing the most commonly unknown facts about uber, including the rating system. Whats the best way to mount it (scotch tape? velcro? string?) and would you recommend it be laminated. i think i would laminate mine or put it in a plastic slip. looks more professional, but harder to attach to car. i saw a pic where it was hanging from the headrest but i dont think i would want mine to be flapping around like that.


----------



## AuxCordBoston

burgerflipper said:


> im going to be putting a sign somewhere in my car, describing the most commonly unknown facts about uber, including the rating system. Whats the best way to mount it (scotch tape? velcro? string?) and would you recommend it be laminated. i think i would laminate mine or put it in a plastic slip. looks more professional, but harder to attach to car. i saw a pic where it was hanging from the headrest but i dont think i would want mine to be flapping around like that.


What will the sign say?


----------



## UberAnt39

burgerflipper said:


> im going to be putting a sign somewhere in my car, describing the most commonly unknown facts about uber, including the rating system. Whats the best way to mount it (scotch tape? velcro? string?) and would you recommend it be laminated. i think i would laminate mine or put it in a plastic slip. looks more professional, but harder to attach to car. i saw a pic where it was hanging from the headrest but i dont think i would want mine to be flapping around like that.


What are the "unknown facts"?


----------



## ParrotFish

burgerflipper said:


> im going to be putting a sign somewhere in my car, describing the most commonly unknown facts about uber, including the rating system. Whats the best way to mount it (scotch tape? velcro? string?) and would you recommend it be laminated. i think i would laminate mine or put it in a plastic slip. looks more professional, but harder to attach to car. i saw a pic where it was hanging from the headrest but i dont think i would want mine to be flapping around like that.


The hook side of Velcro sticks to fabric.


----------



## Uberingdude

I wish the passenger did not have the option to see what we rated them. It makes drivers tend to rate them higher than they really are and it makes Riders we'll tend to rate their drivers lower than they really are.


----------



## UberLaLa

Caroline O'Donovan said:


> Hi Matthew! I'm a reporter with BuzzFeed News. I'm wondering if you'd be okay with me publishing this in a story about ratings? Feel free to email me: [email protected]. Thanks!


Caroline O'Donovan - Good article! 4 Stars : >


----------



## burgerflipper

facts include the 4.6 threshhold and that we dont see the destination. im compiling a list.


----------



## UberLaLa

burgerflipper said:


> facts include the 4.6 threshhold and that we dont see the destination. im compiling a list.


Nor do we have a photo of them. I tell passengers this with other details and they are always shocked.


----------



## Fishchris

This is one of the photos in my slideshow....


----------

