# PPP loan forgiveness



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I havent seen anyone posting about this yet

My first PPP loan has been forgiven. Anyone else??


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm waiting for mine to hit my account any day now I hope.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm in the process. I applied for forgiveness on my first one


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

oldfart said:


> I havent seen anyone posting about this yet
> 
> My first PPP loan has been forgiven. Anyone else??


Yes, my very small PPP loan was 100% forgiven earlier this month. I applied thru PayPal/WebBank. 
Originally the free $1,000 EIDL grant was supposed to reduce your PPP forgiveness amount by $1,000, but the law was changed the second time around. All in all between PPP and the EIDL grant, it ended up being ~$3k in support that made me just about whole for what I would have earned overall in 2020. My “business” didn’t close up shop and I could kick it back into high gear at any time, but definitely considering other alternative sources of extra income besides ridesharing.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

I applied for forgiveness after 8 weeks as instructed by my bank, but then they said it was too soon because my loan amount was based on 11 weeks.
Um...ok.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> I applied for forgiveness after 8 weeks as instructed by my bank, but then they said it was too soon because my loan amount was based on 11 weeks.
> Um...ok.


Do you remember what they asked you on your forgiveness application. Mind seemed really basic. I don't even think they asked the reason why.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> Do you remember what they asked you on your forgiveness application. Mind seemed really basic. I don't even think they asked the reason why.


Yeah, pretty basic.

They asked:
Requested Loan Forgiveness amount.
Which IRS tax form did you use to file 2019 business taxes?
PPP Loan draw type (1st or 2nd)
Covered Period
Amount spent on Payroll costs, Rent, Mortgage, Utilities,

Then optional questions:
Veteran?
Gender
Ethnicity
Race

And that was it.
For me, it was 1st draw and all Payroll.


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## Buff69 (May 25, 2021)

Taxi2Uber said:


> I applied for forgiveness after 8 weeks as instructed by my bank, but then they said it was too soon because my loan amount was based on 11 weeks.
> Um...ok.


It's good to wait 2.5 months 11-12 weeks then ask for forgiveness..


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## Buff69 (May 25, 2021)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Yeah, pretty basic.
> 
> They asked:
> Requested Loan Forgiveness amount.
> ...


My loans overlapped..first draw 4/8/21 second draw 4/28/21 worst case scenario first draw forgiven 2nd draw not forgiven


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

FYI

PPP Loan Forgiveness Update!
We are accepting loan forgiveness applications for loans funded in 2020. We currently expect to begin accepting loan forgiveness applications for loans funded in 2021 during July, and we'll provide an update once we're ready.


This is from paypal (i applied there for PPP loans) but Id guess other PPP loan providers are on a similar schedule


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## Buff69 (May 25, 2021)

oldfart said:


> FYI
> 
> PPP Loan Forgiveness Update!
> We are accepting loan forgiveness applications for loans funded in 2020. We currently expect to begin accepting loan forgiveness applications for loans funded in 2021 during July, and we'll provide an update once we're ready.
> ...


Nice thanks for the info....I'm afraid but hopeful they will forgive both loans..only problem with me and many others possible overlapping can compromise at least one loan...got the first draw 4/8/2021.. second draw 4/28/2021 maybe forgiven for first draw but not draw number 2???


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Buff69 said:


> Nice thanks for the info....I'm afraid but hopeful they will forgive both loans..only problem with me and many others possible overlapping can compromise at least one loan...got the first draw 4/8/2021.. second draw 4/28/2021 maybe forgiven for first draw but not draw number 2???


I dont know about the overlap thing. My loans were separated by almost a year


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

My PPP loan was forgiven.
Meanwhile I collected PUA while it was still a loan, uncertain it would be forgiven.
Now that it is, and now considered income (I guess) how do I report it to PUA.
Do I report the whole windfall amount to PUA just for this week?
Seems that would send red flags, and if I'm supposed to now apply it to previous weeks from months ago, how is that done?
Also, I would have to list an employer. Who would that be?
This is kind of a mess.


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## Buff69 (May 25, 2021)

It's a grant non taxable...EDD hasn't specified anything concerning PPP..no guidelines it's not reportable income...


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I’m with buff69
don’t ask don’t tell.

I have several ways to rationalize my position
1) the question on the Florida unemployment claim form, each week was "did you work or earn any money". I neither worked nor did I earn the money
2) whether it was forgiven or not it was still a loan. And normally when loans are forgiven it’s a taxable event this is non taxable. So this is not income. As buff69 said It’s a grant or a gift... As I said in another post, No different than if I borrowed money from my daughter, and didnt pay her back
3)There was never a week that I received an unemployment deposit and the proceeds of a PPP loan

So until and unless I hear from the State, Im letting sleeping dogs lie


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## Buff69 (May 25, 2021)

States have different criteria concerning PPP loans... remember it may not be forgiven if any overlapping is involved....and many like myself face overlapping of loans...this whole pandemic has been a nightmare for EDD claimants..total disaster..bank of America fraud in the billions...EDD will try to recoup as much money as they can..


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## Merc49 (Apr 30, 2019)

I heard PPP meant people preparing for prison. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Buff69 said:


> States have different criteria concerning PPP loans... remember it may not be forgiven if any overlapping is involved....and many like myself face overlapping of loans...this whole pandemic has been a nightmare for EDD claimants..total disaster..bank of America fraud in the billions...EDD will try to recoup as much money as they can..



Im not sure what you mean by overlapping loans. Unemployment payments were not loans If you got your first PPP loan in 2020 and your second PPP loan in 2021 There is no overlap and if you got your first PPP loan in 2021 could you also apply for a second PPP loan? I didnt think so

I know a lot has been written about overlapping unemployment payments and PPP loans , saying that you cant get both at the same time. ButI I havent seen any guidance from either my State or the SBA on this topic. Have you?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> My PPP loan was forgiven.
> Meanwhile I collected PUA while it was still a loan, uncertain it would be forgiven.
> Now that it is, and now considered income (I guess) how do I report it to PUA.
> Do I report the whole windfall amount to PUA just for this week?
> ...


 My understanding is that, for self employed people, the PPP loan is to be used for owner compensation over a period of time beginning on the issue date

You are self employed, so your employer is yourself

I know Im rationalizing here, but .I see unemployment compensation as dependent on wages or earned income. (if you havent worked or earned any income, you qualify) 

It is quite possible to generate income without working for it,. Im thinking of a stock trader, or someone that receives retirement income.. How about the self employed guy that has money in the bank. His income ended during the pandemic shutdown and he uses some of his savings to replace his lost income. Would that affect his unemployment?
Bottom line is that I dont see PPP as earned income and Im not reporting it to .the unemployment office

Full disclosure, Im not a lawyer, and Im not advising you to do anything. Just sharing my thinking on this thing


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

oldfart said:


> My understanding is that, for self employed people, the PPP loan is to be used for owner compensation over a period of time beginning on the issue date
> 
> You are self employed, so your employer is yourself
> 
> ...


Well that was my understanding as well. (Passive income, I believe is the term.)
Then I read somewhere that since it's used as payroll, loosely defined as paying yourself as an IC, then I become less sure.
Then the lender says 'no, it's not income, then I think ok I'm set, untill I read someone say it most definitely is income. LOL
Wondering what position others have taken and what they have done or plan to do since info and opinions vary so much.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

This is a complicated issue specifically for sole proprietors. I have handled all our PPP issues and EIDL issues for the company I work for.

There are two entirely separate issues here:
1)The business entity
2)Sole proprietor “owners compensation replacement”

A “normal” corporation is simple. A PPP loan that has been forgiven is 100% non taxable income to the _business entity _Under the legislative fix passed in December 2020. (Federal income tax. Each state can handle it as they want)

However, in the case of a sole proprietorship that does *NOT have payroll*, you are essentially limited to “owners compensation replacement” or about 20k for your PPP loan. The twist is that while the PPP loan forgiveness is not taxable income to the business entity, the “owners compensation replacement” *IS *taxable income to the owner. Not only that but the “owners compensation replacement” is a *disqualifier *and not compatible with PUA for the owner receiving it during the 2.5 month period.

In other words, the PPP loan foregiveness amount *does not *go on your schedule C as revenue, but the “owners compensation replacement” *does *go on your 1040 as other income. That’s the way it was explained to me.

Don’t take my word for it. Check with a CPA or better yet, do nothing and hope it never catches up with you. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Seamus said:


> In other words, the PPP loan foregiveness amount *does not *go on your schedule C as revenue, but the “owners compensation replacement” *does *go on your 1040 as other income.


_"Nevada treats forgiven PPP loans as taxable gross revenue" _according to several sources, and sounds like a Schedule C entry.
Meanwhile other sources say forgiven PPP is tax exempt.
Who knows.



Seamus said:


> the “owners compensation replacement” is a *disqualifier *and not compatible with PUA for the owner receiving it during the 2.5 month period.


Not knowing if the loan will be forgiven during that 2.5 month period, I continued weekly filing of PUA.
Now months later the loan is forgiven, question remains, how would I even report it to PUA? It's not like I can go back, and who would I list as the employer.

I read one driver say he will claim the whole loan amount and take the hit, not getting benefits from PUA for that one week then go back to collecting.
So PUA sees $0 earnings week after week from this guy, than $20K one week, than $0's again. LOL
It IS after all, one lump sum on a given day, so maybe that guy is onto something.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> _"Nevada treats forgiven PPP loans as taxable gross revenue" _according to several sources, and sounds like a Schedule C entry.
> Meanwhile other sources say forgiven PPP is tax exempt.
> Who knows.
> 
> ...


Yes, I specifically said what I was saying related to Federal taxes and each state can follow suit or not.

The second part of what you said regarding PPP and PUA shows you’re still not differentiating between PPP and “owners compensation replacement”. OCR was never decided after the fact as to wether it’s taxable income or not. Think of it this way, a sole proprietor getting OCR is essentially the equivalent of employees getting paychecks from the company they work for. While a company does not count PPP forgiveness as income, the money they used to pay employees paychecks was taxable income for those employees. You must differentiate between the two.

In the case of Nevada, if the forgiveness amount is included in gross revenue on schedule C than the owner does not list the OCR separately on a 1040 for state tax purposes because you can’t be taxed twice on the same money.

Either way, you cannot collect owners compensation replacement and PUA at the same time during their 2 1/2 month period. In other words, That is clearly double dipping.

All of these problems for sole proprietorships not doing payroll results from the PPP allowing IC’s to fit into a program that was designed for organizations not people. This resulted in the comparison of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. They would have been better off having a separate program for ICs.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Seamus said:


> you’re still not differentiating between PPP and “owners compensation replacement”.


Um..ok. If you say so.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> I read one driver say he will claim the whole loan amount and take the hit,


My first question would be did he get forgiveness or not. If he didn't apply and Get forgiveness then he clearly owes no taxes as a loan isn't revenue/taxable income.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Um..ok. If you say so.


Honestly wasn't trying to insult you, just saying it's clear that PUA shouldn't be collected during the 2.5 months of receiving owners compensation replacement. My apologies if it came across wrong.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Well that was my understanding as well. (Passive income, I believe is the term.)
> Then I read somewhere that since it's used as payroll, loosely defined as paying yourself as an IC, then I become less sure.


 And that’s the problem. No guidance from either the SBA or the States

I’m hanging my hat on the way my state defines what has to be reported on the weekly claim form

Here’s what they require

. Report All Earnings

Federal and state law requires that you report all earnings before taxes are 
deducted,including wages earned from self-employment, while claiming 
Reemployment Assistance benefits

2. Report All Work

Federal and state law require that you report all work, including self-employment, while claiming Reemployment Assistance
 
*How do I report my earnings correctly?*

Keep track of the total hours you work each calendar week, Sunday through Saturday
Your hourly rate of pay times the total hours worked equals your gross pay, which is the amount you must report
You must report ALL earnings for the week you do the work, not the week you are paid
I think the key words here are work and earnings And I must report all work and all earnings. Since I neither worked nor earned any money, I had nothing to report

At least that’s my story and I’m sticking to it


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> At least that’s my story and I’m sticking to it


LOL, can't say I disagree with your approach. I would personally do nothing and wait to see if I ever heard anything back from them. This whole thing is such a mess it may take years, if ever, to sort it out. 20k is a pretty small amount in the grand scheme of things. The ability for a gov't agency to tie in PUA, PPP, OCR, and if you collected during that 2.5 month period is a pretty tall order, but who knows.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Seamus said:


> just saying it's clear that PUA shouldn't be collected during the 2.5 months of receiving owners compensation replacement.


During that 2.5 month period it was still a 'loan' with no guarantee of forgiveness, so there was no conflict collecting PUA.
That was my thought anyway, and the input I received from others including my lender.
Not saying it's right......just sayin'.
As I said though, after reading others' opinions later on, I became less sure.



oldfart said:


> And that’s the problem. No guidance from either the SBA or the States
> 
> I’m hanging my hat on the way my state defines what has to be reported on the weekly claim form


Agreed.
And that is essentially what my lender said.
Basically saying, it's not 'earnings from work'

I was leaning toward not reporting to PUA, and I think I'll stick with the original plan.
If there's a problem later, I'll just deal with it then.



Seamus said:


> This whole thing is such a mess it may take years, if ever, to sort it out. 20k is a pretty small amount in the grand scheme of things.


After loan forgiveness, it said I was to keep my records for 6 years.
I think about all those big companies with PPP in the millions of dollars and then my amount is even less than $10K.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> This is a complicated issue specifically for sole proprietors. I have handled all our PPP issues and EIDL issues for the company I work for.
> 
> There are two entirely separate issues here:
> 1)The business entity
> ...



I had a whole post written to make the same point you did.. IE there are two parties here. 1) the business and 2) the business owner The proceeds of the PPP loan go to the business and the owner takes his compensation from the business

I get that the business is not taxed on PPP money. But schedule C businesses aren't taxed anyway Profits flow through to the owner's 1040 and the owner pays tax on it 

But whether the PPP money is taxable or not is a different question than, Is it income that has to be reported on your unemployment claim form. My position is that it doesn't

As I said in another post, Im not offering advice, Im just sharing my thoughts


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> how would I even report it to PUA? It's not like I can go back, and who would I list as the employer.


Here they have an option you can click on to update past earnings. You would list self-employed. Every week when I claim my earnings, it asks who my employer was. Obviously there's no employer listed since I'm 1099. so we have to add in the term self employed in the employer spot


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Taxi2Uber said:


> "Nevada treats forgiven PPP loans as taxable gross revenue"


I thought Nevada didn't have state income tax?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> LOL, can't say I disagree with your approach. I would personally do nothing and wait to see if I ever heard anything back from them. This whole thing is such a mess it may take years, if ever, to sort it out. 20k is a pretty small amount in the grand scheme of things. The ability for a gov't agency to tie in PUA, PPP, OCR, and if you collected during that 2.5 month period is a pretty tall order, but who knows.


If some part of government does look into this I dont think it will be the SBA. As you say the $20000 loans are pretty small, I think it will be your State's Unemployment office


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

New2This said:


> I thought Nevada didn't have state income tax?


We don't, and I'm puzzled by that statement as well.
I assumed fed tax was the same for all states. 
Maybe it varies by state. I don't know.
I stopped asking HR Block and Jackson Hewitt questions when all I ever got were 'I don't know' or 'I'm not sure' answers. I mean, if those guys don't know...

Anyway, I was interested in PPP and PUA, not stuff about taxes.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

2021 PPP loan forgiveness update

PayPal has been posting that they will begin accepting forgiveness applications in July. I havent been checking every day so I checked today... They are now accepting applications for forgiveness of the 2021 loans....I just finished mine ezpz

so now we wait...and talk about waiting The SBA has had my application for a modification of my EIDL loan for a month... They told me a month ago that they were taking 2 months to deal with these....1 down 1 to go


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> We don't, and I'm puzzled by that statement as well.
> I assumed fed tax was the same for all states.
> Maybe it varies by state. I don't know.
> I stopped asking HR Block and Jackson Hewitt questions when all I ever got were 'I don't know' or 'I'm not sure' answers. I mean, if those guys don't know...
> ...


I’m a little late on this but I think there are folks equate taxable income with earnings and the consensus is that you can’t have “earnings” at the same time you are collecting unemployment

what they don’t seem to realize is that you can have taxable income (my pension is taxable for example) that doesn’t impact unemployment eligibility

in any case they seem to be saying that if your state taxes ppp money that is forgiven, you can’t get unemployment income
i don’t think that’s correct, but who knows 

this discussion revolves around the question of Can you get both PPP and unemployment at the same time? and as you say taxes don’t have anything to do with that. But it’s still an open question


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I think to answer the question of, can we get unemployment at the same time as the PPP loan? Technically the answer is yes, as a lot of us did. Now, will we have to pay something back to someone because of this? Who knows! I can't imagine them coming after everyone and holding them financially responsible for something that's not in writing anywhere. As long as we answered all questions honestly, I don't forsee them coming back to collect any money. 

Obviously that's just my opinion. Only time will tell


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> I think to answer the question of, can we get unemployment at the same time as the PPP loan? Technically the answer is yes, as a lot of us did. Now, will we have to pay something back to someone because of this? Who knows! I can't imagine them coming after everyone and holding them financially responsible for something that's not in writing anywhere. As long as we answered all questions honestly, I don't forsee them coming back to collect any money.
> 
> Obviously that's just my opinion. Only time will tell


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Seamus said:


> View attachment 607872


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

2nd round PPP forgiveness application update


I applied for forgiveness of my second round PPP loan at the end of July. Since then I have been asked for some documentation, and asked to correct a mistake on the application (my loan was for $12130.00 I miss-placed the decimal point and my application was for $121.30)

Today PayPal tells me that they have completed their review and they sent me the corrected application for my signature. I signed the revised application that they will now send off to the SBA for final approval

PayPal said it could take 2 months to complete their review and it did, exactly, even with my mistake. SBA hasnt said how long they will take


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

just got my 2nd round PPP forgiveness from the SBA


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

oldfart said:


> just got my 2nd round PPP forgiveness from the SBA


Congrats


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I've been meaning to start that. My first one was forgiven but that's not the one I'm worried about because that was net. the second one was gross.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> I've been meaning to start that. My first one was forgiven but that's not the one I'm worried about because that was net. the second one was gross.


If you got 20k or less should be a slam dunk.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I just got this news yesterday.









Both have now been forgiven!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> I just got this news yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 630863
> 
> ...



Expected , good news


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