# You can’t afford not to get an electric or plug in hybrid



## 232200 (7 mo ago)

This may be a long post, so bare with me. As the title suggests, you can’t afford to not get a fuel efficient or electric car. The formula is simply. Calculate how much per month you are currently spending on gas, then calculate how much you would save with an electric or plug in hybrid, or even a regular hybrid. If you’re full time, you’ll most likely save enough in gas to make the payment of buying one new. I’ll give my car as an example. I started in October of 2021. They say the best car is the one you already own. This isn’t always true. I had a WRX. It’s a great car, but not for rideshare. I got less than 25 mpg and it needed premium gas. It took all of 2 days to decide rideshare was for me, but I needed the right car for the job. I settled on a Camry hybrid, as I know they will go 300k miles or more with no major headaches. It cost me $8000 out of pocket with my trade in. I’ve now had the car over 7 months and made most of that back with gas savings. I predicted it would take 18 months, but gas was cheaper back then. Instead of paying $5.50 for premium gas, I’m paying $5.00 for regular gas, and getting 45-50 mpg. For those in the same situation, a car that’s not fuel efficient, you could be saving $800 or more per month, that would pay for a car payment and you would have a new car on top of this. If you’re willing to sacrifice comfort and get a plug-in Prius you would probably have a lower car payment and save even more money, or say a model 3. Because whatever you own now, has a better value for trade in than 1 year ago. Do your research, if you have bad credit ask friends or family to co-sign. Just like any job, you need to the right toll for the job. Someone on Facebook posted they are using an F150 for this, but even though it was a long rant like mine, I think he was trolling, because just about everyone told him he has the wrong tool for the job.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

I agree that everyone should do the math, but a couple things to consider:

The price of new and used hybrids and EV's have skyrocketed in price, and can be hard to find.
Before taking the plunge, you may not want to do this IF you believe the price of gas will plummet, as some people seem to think.

By the way, don't count on your Camry going 300K miles with no major headaches -- your hybrid battery will probably not last that long.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Illini said:


> I agree that everyone should do the math, but a couple things to consider:
> 
> The price of new and used hybrids and EV's have skyrocketed in price, and can be hard to find.
> Before taking the plunge, you may not want to do this IF you believe the price of gas will plummet, as some people seem to think.
> ...


My brother has run 3 Toyota hybrids over 300k. He never had to replace the battery. The last one had the battery light come on at around 340k miles. He sold it, as he stepped up to Uber black with a Lexus. He ran that over 300k before Uber told him it’s no longer Uber black qualified.It was the ES300, he got the GS350, that had over 100k with only oil changes, a new set of tires and a brake job. I’m not concerned withToyota reliability and long term maintenance. Once I hit the 300k whatever I get in resale or trade in is a bonus


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Illini said:


> I agree that everyone should do the math, but a couple things to consider:
> 
> The price of new and used hybrids and EV's have skyrocketed in price, and can be hard to find.
> Before taking the plunge, you may not want to do this IF you believe the price of gas will plummet, as some people seem to think.
> ...


Gas may plummet it may not. That’s a gamble I would think most would make. Even if it does, you’ll still have a fuel efficient car


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Its proven that EV is not so cheap . Higher insurance cost. Higher sticker price. Pay to charge .


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

bobby747 said:


> Its proven that EV is not so cheap . Higher insurance cost. Higher sticker price. Pay to charge .


I pick up a lot of Tesla owners at the service center since Tesla gives their customers a generous amount of Uber credit. They usually order a Premier or Comfort. Overwhelmingly I've been told:

A. Tires wear out very quickly. Up to twice as quickly. And you can't just stick any old tire on there. The approved tires from Tesla are usually top tier Michelin and Continental tires that are not cheap. 
B. Repairs are costly. One pax told me $1400 for a windshield. Windows are a common repair due to rock chips, which other windshield companies don't deal with (although I was just told last week that Safelite will now replace Tesla windshields). 
C. You still have to consider the cost of electricity. While much cheaper than gas, it's not "free". 
D. Insurance on EV's is increasing quickly due to their steep increase in replacement value. 

None of these would dissuade me from buying an EV if they weren't as expensive as they are right now and I didn't already have a good hybrid. They're simply things to consider.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

losiglow said:


> I pick up a lot of Tesla owners at the service center since Tesla gives their customers a generous amount of Uber credit. They usually order a Premier or Comfort. Overwhelmingly I've been told:
> 
> A. Tires wear out very quickly. Up to twice as quickly. And you can't just stick any old tire on there. The approved tires from Tesla are usually top tier Michelin and Continental tires that are not cheap.
> B. Repairs are costly. One pax told me $1400 for a windshield. Windows are a common repair due to rock chips, which other windshield companies don't deal with (although I was just told last week that Safelite will now replace Tesla windshields).
> ...


I was kinda surprised that the savings going to EV aren't as much as I thought. Its not free. Your energy costs will be about half of what a typical hybrid owner pays. That is likely to increase as more EVs are on the road, with greater demand on grid power. 

When driving a small car like a Prius, you can go with the "cheap tires", $75/ea and they will last 50-60K miles.

Those expensive tires are $400+/ea and apparently they only last half as long. Tire expense completely overwhelms any savings on maintenance.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

bobby747 said:


> Its proven that EV is not so cheap . Higher insurance cost. Higher sticker price. Pay to charge .


Proven by who, oil company paid journalists? Charging is cheaper than gas, insurance costs are not higher, and yes EV’s may have a higher sticker vs a comparable gas car, but you’ll save it in lower maintenance costs and energy vs gas.


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## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

Next two years I wouldn’t bet on gas getting below three dollars a gallon and let me be clear I am expecting seven dollar a gallon here in Texas…


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

losiglow said:


> I pick up a lot of Tesla owners at the service center since Tesla gives their customers a generous amount of Uber credit. They usually order a Premier or Comfort. Overwhelmingly I've been told:
> 
> A. Tires wear out very quickly. Up to twice as quickly. And you can't just stick any old tire on there. The approved tires from Tesla are usually top tier Michelin and Continental tires that are not cheap.
> B. Repairs are costly. One pax told me $1400 for a windshield. Windows are a common repair due to rock chips, which other windshield companies don't deal with (although I was just told last week that Safelite will now replace Tesla windshields).
> ...


You make valid points, that’s why I also included hybrids, especially plug in hybrids. If you can deal with the size of the Prius, the plug in version is the best bang for the buck. If comfort is more important the best value IMHO is the Camry hybrid. If you need AWD the RAV4 or the Tesla model Y is the way yo go. If you feel you’ll have range anxiety, which is a problem in some markets without a lot of charging stations, the hybrids are best. The point of my post is those with non fuel efficient cars saying they can’t afford a new one. The gas savings alone would most likely pay for it.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

It’s unfortunate times right now (#fjb) because when it comes to EVs & hybrids (and just about everything else in general) it’s a sellers market rather than a buyers market. Car inventory is so low right now that most of the major car dealers in my market are now closed on Sundays, a first in my lifetime. The few cars that are available are offered _*ABOVE*_ sticker price, a first in my lifetime. A new Hybrid Ford Escape in California (if you can find one) is getting 10k above sticker price.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Illini said:


> I agree that everyone should do the math, but a couple things to consider:
> 
> The price of new and used hybrids and EV's have skyrocketed in price, and can be hard to find.
> Before taking the plunge, you may not want to do this IF you believe the price of gas will plummet, as some people seem to think.
> ...


The battery only cost about $1500.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

UberPro1969 said:


> This may be a long post, so bare with me. As the title suggests, you can’t afford to not get a fuel efficient or electric car. The formula is simply. Calculate how much per month you are currently spending on gas, then calculate how much you would save with an electric or plug in hybrid, or even a regular hybrid. If you’re full time, you’ll most likely save enough in gas to make the payment of buying one new. I’ll give my car as an example. I started in October of 2021. They say the best car is the one you already own. This isn’t always true. I had a WRX. It’s a great car, but not for rideshare. I got less than 25 mpg and it needed premium gas. It took all of 2 days to decide rideshare was for me, but I needed the right car for the job. I settled on a Camry hybrid, as I know they will go 300k miles or more with no major headaches. It cost me $8000 out of pocket with my trade in. I’ve now had the car over 7 months and made most of that back with gas savings. I predicted it would take 18 months, but gas was cheaper back then. Instead of paying $5.50 for premium gas, I’m paying $5.00 for regular gas, and getting 45-50 mpg. For those in the same situation, a car that’s not fuel efficient, you could be saving $800 or more per month, that would pay for a car payment and you would have a new car on top of this. If you’re willing to sacrifice comfort and get a plug-in Prius you would probably have a lower car payment and save even more money, or say a model 3. Because whatever you own now, has a better value for trade in than 1 year ago. Do your research, if you have bad credit ask friends or family to co-sign. Just like any job, you need to the right toll for the job. Someone on Facebook posted they are using an F150 for this, but even though it was a long rant like mine, I think he was trolling, because just about everyone told him he has the wrong tool for the job.


I just bought a camry LE hybrid. Just got my registration today.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Uber's Guber said:


> It’s unfortunate times right now (#fjb) because when it comes to EVs & hybrids (and just about everything else in general) it’s a sellers market rather than a buyers market. Car inventory is so low right now that most of the major car dealers in my market are now closed on Sundays, a first in my lifetime. The few cars that are available are offered _*ABOVE*_ sticker price, a first in my lifetime. A new Hybrid Ford Escape in California (if you can find one) is getting 10k above sticker price.


Try looking at a Toyota. You can go on their website and build a car with the options you want and they will give you a price. The dealer doesn't matter. I ordered a Camry hybrid. It was worth the 3 week wait for it to arrive.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

pengduck said:


> I just bought a camry LE hybrid. Just got my registration today.


Smart move. If you want leather you can get it aftermarket. The same if you want to bigger screen. I have the XLE, but didn’t consider the LE, in hindsight it actually gets better mpg. Congratulations on a great decision.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

pengduck said:


> The battery only cost about $1500.


The price of EV batteries would come down in price if the left wing eco-nuts who demand that everyone drive an EV would quit fighting the opening of the mines that are needed to process lithium. 🤷‍♂️


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

UberPro1969 said:


> Smart move. If you want leather you can get it aftermarket. The same if you want to bigger screen. I have the XLE, but didn’t consider the LE, in hindsight it actually gets better mpg. Congratulations on a great decision.





UberPro1969 said:


> Smart move. If you want leather you can get it aftermarket. The same if you want to bigger screen. I have the XLE, but didn’t consider the LE, in hindsight it actually gets better mpg. Congratulations on a great decision.


My brother does car interiors so it won't cost me as much if I choose to go with leather.


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## Macydog1 (Sep 18, 2018)

Wait until the electricity cost to recharge an EV goes up up up and then tell me we all need an electric vehicle. Currently in the US there is not enough electricity as it is, let alone charging millions of EV's. In the Midwest we have been told to expect rolling blackouts this year. So lets compound this situation by plugging in more electric vehicles. Once the current administration is out the door, we'll be free of this fantasy. As long as this president is in office, the only thing we can expect is far left destruction in the name of climate change. Biden is destroying America, and all of his policies have fallen flat on there face. Open and finish the keystone pipeline and we'll have another 800,000 barrels a day in America. This will bring down the cost of fuel.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Macydog1 said:


> Wait until the electricity cost to recharge an EV goes up up up and then tell me we all need an electric vehicle. Currently in the US there is not enough electricity as it is, let alone charging millions of EV's. In the Midwest we have been told to expect rolling blackouts this year. So lets compound this situation by plugging in more electric vehicles. Once the current administration is out the door, we'll be free of this fantasy. As long as this president is in office, the only thing we can expect is far left destruction in the name of climate change. Biden is destroying America, and all of his policies have fallen flat on there face. Open and finish the keystone pipeline and we'll have another 800,000 barrels a day in America. This will bring down the cost of fuel.


Truth.

The problem with electricity is it can't be put in a truck and driven to another city. If you want electricity, you need a way to generate it locally. Which means coal burning, windfarms, nuclear.

Hybrids make the most sense. For each EV battery, six hybrid batteries can be made. Six hybrids will have much greater impact on CO2 emissions, than trying to reach an unrealistic EV target. The whole EV thing doesn't scale to what people have imagined is possible.


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## Macydog1 (Sep 18, 2018)

You're caught up in the fantasy.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

UberPro1969 said:


> If you’re full time, you’ll most likely save enough in gas to make the payment of buying one new.


Only a fool would go 30k+ in debt stretched over multiple years to change the fuel they use because gas is high now.



UberPro1969 said:


> if you have bad credit ask friends or family to co-sign.


Only a fool would co-sign a car loan. The reason people have bad credit is because they don't pay back what they borrow. Asking a friend or family to cosign a car loan for you because you can't seem to keep your payments correct is ridiculous. 



UberPro1969 said:


> Just like any job, you need to the right toll for the job. Someone on Facebook posted they are using an F150 for this, but even though it was a long rant like mine, I think he was trolling, because just about everyone told him he has the wrong tool for the job.


Buying Snap-On tools for your first job turning wrenches is as ridiculous as buying a new car for rideshare. Regardless of gas prices, you're better off buying a used car that gets decent/good mileage for cash, not going into debt, and not incurring any depreciation. Plenty of examples on this forum of people buying cheap cars, dropping 200k+ miles on them, and selling them for about what they paid originally.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> Only a fool would go 30k+ in debt stretched over multiple years to change the fuel they use because gas is high now.
> 
> 
> Only a fool would co-sign a car loan. The reason people have bad credit is because they don't pay back what they borrow. Asking a friend or family to cosign a car loan for you because you can't seem to keep your payments correct is ridiculous.
> ...


My brother has been doing rideshare long before rideshare was a word. He worked for a black car service since 1997. He started out buying used, went to buying new in 2006, never bought used again. He actually made more money before Uber started. He would clear after all expenses 100k or more per year. Now with Uber he still does the same, but we’re talking 25 years later. Uber has destroyed the professional car service industry, he was lucky to poach many long term passengers for the black car industry, he drives Uber black, he’s not afraid to buy a $50000 car, no money down and take a 3 year loan. Myself I bought a $35000 Camry back in November. I’m not afraid to spend money on a car. Sure used is more affordable, but you’re potentially buying someone’s nightmare of a car. Ever since I started buying new in 2009, I’ve never had a breakdown. I’ll gladly pay a small premium for piece of mind. I works in my world, it works in my brothers world, as well as many others. I think I gave sound advice to anyone willing to listen. I also told them to do their own research.

Having a fuel inefficient car is the wrong tool for this job. Most will say what if you get deactivated, or decide to get a regular job, well you’ll still need a car to get to that regular job.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

pengduck said:


> The battery only cost about $1500.


I believe the battery on a hybrid is way more than $1500, and I know it’s more on a full electric. But unless you are really unlucky the battery will last for a few hundred thousand miles.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

UberPro1969 said:


> My brother has been doing rideshare long before rideshare was a word. He worked for a black car service since 1997. He started out buying used, went to buying new in 2006, never bought used again. He actually made more money before Uber started. He would clear after all expenses 100k or more per year. Now with Uber he still does the same, but we’re talking 25 years later. Uber has destroyed the professional car service industry, he was lucky to poach many long term passengers for the black car industry, he drives Uber black, he’s not afraid to buy a $50000 car, no money down and take a 3 year loan. Myself I bought a $35000 Camry back in November. I’m not afraid to spend money on a car. Sure used is more affordable, but you’re potentially buying someone’s nightmare of a car. Ever since I started buying new in 2009, I’ve never had a breakdown. I’ll gladly pay a small premium for piece of mind. I works in my world, it works in my brothers world, as well as many others. I think I gave sound advice to anyone willing to listen. I also told them to do their own research.
> 
> Having a fuel inefficient car is the wrong tool for this job. Most will say what if you get deactivated, or decide to get a regular job, well you’ll still need a car to get to that regular job.


Its all about the bottom line. Given Uber's proclivity towards cutting driver pay, implementing ridiculous rules, and generally siding with the Pax on most incidents, I don't see any upside to spending good money on cars for this job that everyone knows can be taken away at any time.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

OldBay said:


> I was kinda surprised that the savings going to EV aren't as much as I thought. Its not free. Your energy costs will be about half of what a typical hybrid owner pays. That is likely to increase as more EVs are on the road, with greater demand on grid power.
> 
> When driving a small car like a Prius, you can go with the "cheap tires", $75/ea and they will last 50-60K miles.
> 
> Those expensive tires are $400+/ea and apparently they only last half as long. Tire expense completely overwhelms any savings on maintenance.


As someone who actually owns/drives a Tesla... my last set of tires ran me right at $1K for wet/traction tires.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Truth.
> 
> The problem with electricity is it can't be put in a truck and driven to another city. If you want electricity, you need a way to generate it locally. Which means coal burning, windfarms, nuclear.
> 
> Hybrids make the most sense. For each EV battery, six hybrid batteries can be made. Six hybrids will have much greater impact on CO2 emissions, than trying to reach an unrealistic EV target. The whole EV thing doesn't scale to what people have imagined is possible.


You missed the three of the most used sources for generating electricity in the United States: natural gas, hydroelectric, and geothermal.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Macydog1 said:


> Wait until the electricity cost to recharge an EV goes up up up


Energy company here just announced a rate hike yesterday. Hell, they didn’t even bother to pretend to be apologetic LOL.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

DexNex said:


> You missed the three of the most used sources for generating electricity in the United States: natural gas, hydroelectric, and geothermal.


The same eco-nuts who tell us we need more alternative energy just went to court to file a lawsuit against the energy developer of a planned geothermal project because some useless stupid wild chickens are nesting on the the property.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

It's important to distinguish between Tesla EVs and all the other EVs. Tesla's are an outlier on cost of ownership. I have had two Tesla's on order and ended up cancelling them both due to issues with the cars. Other EVs really are very low cost of ownership. Let me repeat the stats for my 2021 Bolt EV:

Cost: 25K
California rebate: $4.5K
Cost to extend bumper-to-bumper warranty to 150K: 3K

Cost of tires: $75 ea
Cost of charging per month: <$50 (that's with solar panels and charging at municipal fast-charge stations in town)
Cost of insurance (Full coverage, RS addendum) $133 /month



bobby747 said:


> Its proven that EV is not so cheap . Higher insurance cost. Higher sticker price. Pay to charge .





losiglow said:


> I pick up a lot of Tesla owners at the service center since Tesla gives their customers a generous amount of Uber credit. They usually order a Premier or Comfort. Overwhelmingly I've been told:
> 
> A. Tires wear out very quickly. Up to twice as quickly. And you can't just stick any old tire on there. The approved tires from Tesla are usually top tier Michelin and Continental tires that are not cheap.
> B. Repairs are costly. One pax told me $1400 for a windshield. Windows are a common repair due to rock chips, which other windshield companies don't deal with (although I was just told last week that Safelite will now replace Tesla windshields).
> ...





OldBay said:


> I was kinda surprised that the savings going to EV aren't as much as I thought. Its not free. Your energy costs will be about half of what a typical hybrid owner pays. That is likely to increase as more EVs are on the road, with greater demand on grid power.
> 
> When driving a small car like a Prius, you can go with the "cheap tires", $75/ea and they will last 50-60K miles.
> 
> Those expensive tires are $400+/ea and apparently they only last half as long. Tire expense completely overwhelms any savings on maintenance.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Truth.
> 
> The problem with electricity is it can't be put in a truck and driven to another city. If you want electricity, you need a way to generate it locally.


The nations entire electric grid is connected except for Texas. So yes, you can send electric from Ohio to California.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> Because whatever you own now, has a better value for trade in than 1 year ago.


Every vehicle depreciates. New vehicles depreciate faster than older vehicles.

If you have an older vehicle, what you lose in depreciation will be lower than a new one.

But there's something else that bothers me about your post...



UberPro1969 said:


> you can’t afford to not get a fuel efficient or electric car.


You're talking about justifying the purchase based on fuel cost savings.

That may be true for a hybrid, plug-in or otherwise. But with a purely electric car, you have just limited the range you can drive in a shift.

Yeah, most of the time that's not going to be an issue. Usually. Until it is. I don't like driving with less than a quarter of a tank of gasoline. I'm sure not going to like driving on a battery that's getting low on charge, when there are limited numbers of places I can charge it up. Over a long period of time.

So yeah, maybe a hybrid, even a plug-in hybrid, although they're kind of pricey. But for doing rideshare, I'm definitely not going to get a purely electric car, Tesla or otherwise.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Every vehicle depreciates. New vehicles depreciate faster than older vehicles.
> 
> If you have an older vehicle, what you lose in depreciation will be lower than a new one.
> 
> ...


My Tesla can add 200 miles of range (has 300 total) in about 15 minutes at a Tesla fast charger. So for me, range is not really an issue.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

> *You can’t afford not to get an electric or plug in hybrid*


Sure you can. My 2015 Toyota Yaris gets 40+ mpg, its been paid off since 2018 and will last longer than any hybrid.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

UberPro1969 said:


> I’ve now had the car over 7 months and made most of that back with gas savings.


In 7 months you saved $8k in gas?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I was just reminded... for some reason the attraction to electric cars has tended to be divided along political lines. Conservatives have traditionally shied away from them, and libs by and large gravitate to them. Think two Hollywood libs like Danny DeVito, who owned the first mass produced EV, the GM EV-1. Or Ed Begley Jr. who was inextricably tied to the Toyota Prius in its early days. Or Larry David, a man who could afford _any_ car, driving a Prius on his TV show. You didn't see Charlton Heston driving those cars.

I remember way back when Toyota first introduced the Prius. It was reviewed by a conservative talk radio car show (the station aired Rush Limbaugh mornings) that was broadcast from the valley (California). The show's hosts all hated the Prius out of hand. Here Toyota had given birth to a revolutionary automobile that got 50 miles to the gallon, and the guys were poo pooing it!

Of course Tesla has broken down the liberal/conservative wall quite a bit. People from all walks of life buy them. But for some reason, whatever makes conservatives conservatives, there is an innate distrust of the technology. Like my buddy @tohunt4me, who is from oil country in Louisiana (??) HATES electric cars. Bless his heart, he has crude running through his bloodstream and will be one of the last to fall. lol.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Every vehicle depreciates. New vehicles depreciate faster than older vehicles.
> 
> If you have an older vehicle, what you lose in depreciation will be lower than a new one.


I think he's talking about the current market trends for used cars, which has risen sharply YoY.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> I was just reminded... for some reason the attraction to electric cars has tended to be divided along political lines. Conservatives have traditionally shied away from them, and libs by and large gravitate to them. Think two Hollywood libs like Danny DeVito, who owned the first mass produced EV, the GM EV-1. Or Ed Begley Jr. who was inextricably tied to the Toyota Prius in its early days. Or Larry David, a man who could afford _any_ car, driving a Prius on his TV show. You didn't see Charlton Heston driving those cars.
> 
> I remember way back when Toyota first introduced the Prius. It was reviewed by a conservative talk radio car show (the station aired Rush Limbaugh mornings) that was broadcast from the valley (California). The show's hosts all hated the Prius out of hand. Here Toyota had given birth to a revolutionary automobile that got 50 miles to the gallon, and the guys were poo pooing it!
> 
> Of course Tesla has broken down the liberal/conservative wall quite a bit. People from all walks of life buy them. But for some reason, whatever makes conservatives conservatives, there is an innate distrust of the technology. Like my buddy @tohunt4me, who is from oil country in Louisiana (??) HATES electric cars. Bless his heart, he has crude running through his bloodstream and will be one of the last to fall. lol.


Electric Trucks are going to mess up a lot of peoples' heads. Lol.


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

Syn said:


> In 7 months you saved $8k in gas?


Original comment was this Person had a WRX. I think they are twin turbo, gas guzzlers, just turning on probably burns $5 of gas.


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

I do agree with it makes sense to get a more efficient vehicle, I started Uber over 7years ago and had a V6 Nissan Skyline 350GT. I think you call them infinity over there? That cost me $400 a week in fuel, I quickly traded In for a 2litre Lancer, my fuel cost dropped to $180 a week. 
After 4years, finally went hybrid, fuel then dropped to $70 a week, I can’t believe I didn’t go hybrid earlier…now with fuel price up, it’s now at $100 a week still cheap, 


but I do agree with others, never buy new, here a brand new Camry hybrid is $48k. So that works out to be $4800 per year over 10years. Compared to my 5year old hybrid, that cost me $10k, so 2k per year, when it’s 10years old and cannot be used, it has the same resale as that brand new Camry that’s now 10years old.

so I have $2800 more per year in my pocket, because I didn’t buy new, over 5years that’s $14,000 more in my pocket, enough money to pay for the next 5year old car, overall over 10years I’ve spent $28,000 less than buying new,
so I would never buy new, 2nd hand is just As reliable as new, and if your financing it, There is even more lost money, finance charges, interest,,


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

Macydog1 said:


> You're caught up in the fantasy.


Which fantasy would that be ?
Is it the fantasy that the sky is falling and the world is coming to an end ?
Or is it the fantasy that we will all die of hunger long before the planet implodes due to these green energy lies ?
One is , and one isn't a fantasy ............
Btw , wasn't the world supposed to end again , most recently two years ago ?


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

TBone said:


> The nations entire electric grid is connected except for Texas. So yes, you can send electric from Ohio to California.


Yeah right . Blow into a straw from Ohio and see what they get in Cali . You know nothing about electric transmission lines over that kind of distance which is why there are power plants spaced all over the country . Don't talk about things that you don't have the first clue about !


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> for some reason the attraction to electric cars has tended to be divided along political lines. Conservatives have traditionally shied away from them, and libs by and large gravitate to them.


I agree with that statement.

It also varies somewhat, depending on the region. For instance, I'm left of center politically, but I live in Texas. You couldn't pry my ExxonMobil stock away from me for anything.

We also have a lot of long distances here. It's not unusual to drive a couple hundred miles here for a weekend. When I moved to Houston from Los Angeles, half of the trip was in Texas, and there's still another hundred plus miles of Texas before you get to Louisiana.

As for the poster who said he could add a couple of hundred miles in 15 minutes at a Tesla supercharger station, why would I want to do that? I can add 400 miles of range to my Acura in 5 minutes at any gas station, and they're located on just about every other street corner here.

In contrast, there are 116 Tesla supercharger stations here, in an area of several counties that includes the city of Houston, with a total population well over seven million people.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

Classified said:


> Original comment was this Person had a WRX. I think they are twin turbo, gas guzzlers, just turning on probably burns $5 of gas.


I get that. But switching from WRX (which is not a gas guzzler, its a 2.4 engine, should get mid 20s mpg) to Camry hybrid allowed him to save $8,000 in gas in 7 month?


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> Its all about the bottom line. Given Uber's proclivity towards cutting driver pay, implementing ridiculous rules, and generally siding with the Pax on most incidents, I don't see any upside to spending good money on cars for this job that everyone knows can be taken away at any time.





Macydog1 said:


> Wait until the electricity cost to recharge an EV goes up up up and then tell me we all need an electric vehicle. Currently in the US there is not enough electricity as it is, let alone charging millions of EV's. In the Midwest we have been told to expect rolling blackouts this year. So lets compound this situation by plugging in more electric vehicles. Once the current administration is out the door, we'll be free of this fantasy. As long as this president is in office, the only thing we can expect is far left destruction in the name of climate change. Biden is destroying America, and all of his policies have fallen flat on there face. Open and finish the keystone pipeline and we'll have another 800,000 barrels a day in America. This will bring down the cost of fuel.


that is right wing propaganda. The pipeline was going to transport Canadian shale to the Gulf of Mexico to export.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Syn said:


> I get that. But switching from WRX (which is not a gas guzzler, its a 2.4 engine, should get mid 20s mpg) to Camry hybrid allowed him to save $8,000 in gas in 7 month?


I don’t remember if I posted this already but I’ll post again. I didn’t save the $8000 yet. I do this full time, I work around 50-60 hours a week. I estimate with the increase in fuel since the war stated, I’ve saved overall in the last 7 months $4500-5000 in fuel vs the WRX. I could be off by a few hundred as I don’t keep meticulous track of gas spending. Compared to the Camry the WRX is a gas guzzler. I got a combined 22-23mpg. I’m getting 45-50 mpg, the Camry is actually better if the better part of the tank is driven in the city vs highway. So I basically cut my gas bill in half, plus the WRX need premium fuel, if you used regular it ran like shit. It could be done, but long term you’d probably damage the engine. Overall I’m very satisfied with my decision, it was actually a no brained. My WRX was paid off, had great resale value due to the crazy car market and I found a dealer willing to sell the new car at sticker. I know it’s hard these days, but you’ve got to shop around.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Syn said:


> Sure you can. My 2015 Toyota Yaris gets 40+ mpg, its been paid off since 2018 and will last longer than any hybrid.


My post wasn’t directly at someone like you that is already driving a fuel efficient car. You really believe a Yaris will last longer than a Toyota hybrid. Toyota is the gold standard for hybrids. My brother has ran 3 Toyota hybrids over 300k miles. And only once had the hybrid battery light come on. He still sold it for $5000, and that one had about 350k miles. The Yaris isn’t a bad little car if comfort is not important to you. But you could be saving more at the pump switching to a plug in Prius. In you case you probably wouldn’t save enough to justify the car payment, then again your Yaris may have great resale value, as the used car market is insane, and if you can find a dealer willing to give you a new one at sticker, it may make sense, especially if you do this full time for 50 or more hours per week.

As I stated in my original post, you’ve got to do your own research. You may be surprised, or you may not be. Only you can determine this. My post was basically to break it down for say someone with a older midsize suv that’s only getting 20 mpg.


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## Gman67 (Aug 19, 2021)

UberPro1969 said:


> My brother has been doing rideshare long before rideshare was a word. He worked for a black car service since 1997. He started out buying used, went to buying new in 2006, never bought used again. He actually made more money before Uber started. He would clear after all expenses 100k or more per year. Now with Uber he still does the same, but we’re talking 25 years later. Uber has destroyed the professional car service industry, he was lucky to poach many long term passengers for the black car industry, he drives Uber black, he’s not afraid to buy a $50000 car, no money down and take a 3 year loan. Myself I bought a $35000 Camry back in November. I’m not afraid to spend money on a car. Sure used is more affordable, but you’re potentially buying someone’s nightmare of a car. Ever since I started buying new in 2009, I’ve never had a breakdown. I’ll gladly pay a small premium for piece of mind. I works in my world, it works in my brothers world, as well as many others. I think I gave sound advice to anyone willing to listen. I also told them to do their own research.
> 
> Having a fuel inefficient car is the wrong tool for this job. Most will say what if you get deactivated, or decide to get a regular job, well you’ll still need a car to get to that regular job.


I'm assuming your brother lives in Cali or another high priced, high paid market. Good for him for making it a lucrative career. Unfortunately, that scenario is unique to his area and doesn't compute in most of the country. So many posts seems to paint the whole picture with a single brush. The numbers you are stating aren't remotely feasible in a large portion of the US. The pay rate in my market is .57/mile, .11/minute. Surges are rare and the highest quest this week was 60/70 $110/$190 and there are still a glut of drivers despite the high gas prices. Yes, I know, it's much cheaper to live here than the higher priced cities but the EVs and hybrids cost the same here as they do there. Fortunately, I've figured out how to make it work for my situation and I do quite well for my area but purchasing an EV or hybrid anytime in the near future is practically an impossibility and suggesting getting a relative to cosign is about as reasonable an idea as saying "well, just go win the lottery".


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> It's important to distinguish between Tesla EVs and all the other EVs. Tesla's are an outlier on cost of ownership. I have had two Tesla's on order and ended up cancelling them both due to issues with the cars. Other EVs really are very low cost of ownership. Let me repeat the stats for my 2021 Bolt EV:
> 
> Cost: 25K
> California rebate: $4.5K
> ...


What kind of warranty do you get on the battery pack on the Chevrolet Bolt? What about the issue of batteries catching on fires, limiting the charging to 80% capacity only?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> What kind of warranty do you get on the battery pack on the Chevrolet Bolt? What about the issue of batteries catching on fires, limiting the charging to 80% capacity only?


On this one I'm playing the odds. A little over a dozen cars have had the battery catch fire. Out of thousands. There is a specific pattern of charging that triggered the fires, and I avoid that pattern. But it does not preclude me from charging to 100% by staging the charge. Having said that, it is not uncommon for an owner to never charge to 100% in order to extend battery life (never over 80% or under 20%).

Most all the Bolts will get a replacement battery, including my 2021 car in all likelihood. That will re-start the 8 year battery warranty.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Gman67 said:


> I'm assuming your brother lives in Cali or another high priced, high paid market. Good for him for making it a lucrative career. Unfortunately, that scenario is unique to his area and doesn't compute in most of the country. So many posts seems to paint the whole picture with a single brush. The numbers you are stating aren't remotely feasible in a large portion of the US. The pay rate in my market is .57/mile, .11/minute. Surges are rare and the highest quest this week was 60/70 $110/$190 and there are still a glut of drivers despite the high gas prices. Yes, I know, it's much cheaper to live here than the higher priced cities but the EVs and hybrids cost the same here as they do there. Fortunately, I've figured out how to make it work for my situation and I do quite well for my area but purchasing an EV or hybrid anytime in the near future is practically an impossibility and suggesting getting a relative to cosign is about as reasonable an idea as saying "well, just go win the lottery".


Not California, we live in NJ. Yes I’m well aware that not all markets are the same. I will always give advice to those that are struggling, yet ask why so many here seem to do well, I tell them it’s your market. There’s many markets where this should only be part time work in weekends, and there’s markets where you’re better off with a part time weekend job. Then there’s NJ. It’s not as glamorous as CA, but you can do well here if you know the market, best times to work, where the surges are etc.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

UberPro1969 said:


> Not California, we live in NJ. Yes I’m well aware that not all markets are the same. I will always give advice to those that are struggling, yet ask why so many here seem to do well, I tell them it’s your market. There’s many markets where this should only be part time work in weekends, and there’s markets where you’re better off with a part time weekend job. Then there’s NJ. It’s not as glamorous as CA, but you can do well here if you know the market, best times to work, where the surges are etc.


Stupid questions some Californians may ask a driver from New Jersey....

1) Have you ever had an insurance claim on your car for being strafed by a row of bullets as the passenger got out of the car?

2) Have you ever loaded up 4 unusually large men with bulges in their coats on a two stop trip? The first stop was a very short one, and you heard some kids letting off firecrackers in the alley while waiting. And the second stop was back to the point of departure. And you got a big tip, and a dirty, knowing look.

3) Do you allow large Italian looking males to sit directly behind you on a trip?

4) Do you avoid the Jones Beach Causeway at all costs on trips to Long Island??

5) Have you ever had a man come up to your window at a stoplight exclaiming, "I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! I want my money!" ?


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

_Tron_ said:


> Stupid questions some Californians may ask a driver from New Jersey....
> 
> 1) Have you ever had an insurance claim on your car for being strafed by a row of bullets as the passenger got out of the car?
> 
> ...


No to all those. At least not yet.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

By the way, the best commercial so far this year covered EVs.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Plus it has been proven long ago that manufacturing an EV takes more resources out of the earth than making a gas vehicle.
Brandon gave away the largest Lithium mine in the world back to the Taliban.

Remember back in the day when a lot of people were buying Diesel pick ups, because diesel fuel was cheap then. Now it averages a dollar more a gallon and I rarely see diesel pick ups.
In fact my regular gas station stopped selling Diesel because of to many charge backs.

Choose wisely and do not be a Slave to the Great Reset.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Brandon gave away the largest Lithium mine in the world back to the Taliban.


Sorry, that was your guy who signed away everything in Afghanistan. Mr. Melania did that.

He did it near the end of his term in office, when it was starting to become clear that his Big Lie about the election being stolen wasn't convincing any of the courts where he filed lawsuits.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> You really believe a Yaris will last longer than a Toyota hybrid. Toyota is the gold standard for hybrids.


Yes, Toyota is all of that, agreed.

But they're also the gold standard for total longevity, including the Yaris.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> I estimate with the increase in fuel since the war stated, I’ve saved overall in the last 7 months $4500-5000 in fuel vs the WRX.


I did the math using your figures. Would it be correct that in an average month, you drive about 5,000 miles?

I've considered getting a Camry hybrid. Partly because I like Toyotas and have had several. And partly because I dislike the dashboard layout of the Prius. I seriously don't like having to look over to the right to see the speedometer.

But if we're going to analyze the economics, we should also consider other models (hybrid or otherwise) that get excellent fuel economy. What other models did you consider?

My biggest holdup for buying another car is that I haven't driven for Uber for two years. I've driven so few miles that it's hard to justify any auto purchase right now.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Those comparisons for uber cars as per snap on tools is a joke
Tools last the guy his whole life . Uber 90 days


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Assume OP had a 2015 wrx and he traded up for a 2015 camry hybrid (45mpg).

Drives 4000/mi per month full time.

WRX 4000/25 = 160 gallons x 5 = 800 (average monthly fuel)
Camry 4000/45 = 89 gallons x 5 = 445 
Savings: 355/mo

Buying a car, there is tax/title/registration on top of purchase price. In current economy, I would guess a Camry Hybrid of equal year and mileage to a WRX costs 10K more. Add to that tax/title/registration, you are spending 11000 to swap rides.

11000 / 355 = 31 months to break even. So. if you are driving rideshare for 30 months full time, you will break even. After that you will save 355/mo.

Now here is where it gets interesting. If OP had an old WRX (2015) and bought a new Camry Hybrid, his cost of entry probably 25K (or more) to make this move. Newer Camry gets 5mpg extra, so lets say...

20000 / 375 = 53 months to break even. He would have to drive rideshare full time OVER TWO YEARS for gas savings to cover purchase price. HOWEVER, there is heightened depreciation on a new car. So at the end of two years, the new Camry has 100K miles and he has lost half of his purchase price.  Welcome to clown world.

The ONLY way changing rides makes sense, is if the OP does a lateral price move from his WRX into a used camry hybrid. In current market, a used hybrid worth considerably more than wrx. So he would have to get a car that was a few years older/higher miles. This is the only smart move.

Only the OP knows how much of a hole he dug himself into:

*If he traded from his WRX into an older Camry Hybrid, move makes sense.
*If he traded from his WRX into an equal year Camry, will take 30 months full time driving to break even.
*If he bought a new Camry Hybrid, he is an idiot.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> Assume OP had a 2015 wrx and he traded up for a 2015 camry hybrid (45mpg).
> 
> Drives 4000/mi per month full time.
> 
> ...


Nice breakdown. I should’ve given more details. I’ll break it down for you. The WRX was a 2018, it was paid off, I got close to 29k on the trade when you take tax savings into account. You only pay sales tax in NJ on the difference between the trade in and the new car. I paid $8000 out of pocket which included a unlimited miles wheel and tire warranty. I usually stay away from warranties, but this was too good to pass up. So far with 44000 miles they have replaced 5-6 tires. The warranty will replace a tire if it has a nail, not patch it up. If the wheel gets bent from a serious pothole, they will replace it, so far I’ve been lucky in that department, but it seems I have a nail magnet of a car lol. I drive an average of around 6000 miles a month. The WRX needed premium gas, which is usually $.50 or more extra per gallon. And the Camry is getting twice or better mpg vs the WRX. The Camry BTW is a 2022. I estimate with the current gas prices I’m saving around $30 a day over the WRX, that is around $600 a month as I drive 20-22 days per month. When I first bought the car, gas was around $3 a gallon, an extra $.50 for premium which I didn’t need. Back then I estimate I was saving close to $400 a month. I will get that $8000 back in a little over a year, if gas drops, 18 months max. I will keep this car for 3-4 years. I’ve been taking $200 a week from my earnings, saving it in a separate account. That will be enough to replace the car one it hits 300k. I have no regrets over my decision, as I’ve had my share of used cars, and I’ll pay a premium to get new.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> I did the math using your figures. Would it be correct that in an average month, you drive about 5,000 miles?
> 
> I've considered getting a Camry hybrid. Partly because I like Toyotas and have had several. And partly because I dislike the dashboard layout of the Prius. I seriously don't like having to look over to the right to see the speedometer.
> 
> ...


I considered a RAV4 as well as the plug in Prius. I also considered the Honda Clarity plug in, but could only find one for sale, $8000 over sticker. I was lucky to get mine at MSRP


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> Assume OP had a 2015 wrx and he traded up for a 2015 camry hybrid (45mpg).
> 
> Drives 4000/mi per month full time.
> 
> ...


You’re also forgetting I’ll have lower maintenance costs on the Camry being new vs the WRX. It only had 35k on it, but 60-70k miles it very well may have cost more overall.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

UberPro1969 said:


> You’re also forgetting I’ll have lower maintenance costs on the Camry being new vs the WRX. It only had 35k on it, but 60-70k miles it very well may have cost more overall.


You said you paid 8K for the Camry. Was that difference in sticker or after taxes/registration?

Lets say you are 10K in the hole. You paid 10K up front for the ability to save money on gas. So in 30 months, 2.5 years, you will break even.

But because the Camry is worth more, you are depreciating a more expensive vehicle and losing money there. That will overshadow any savings you get on repairs. Or if gas prices come down in 2 years, the 10K premium you paid for the hybrid will be lost. I bought a cheap hybrid before the pandemic and according to research, it is worth 5K over what I paid, even with the miles I put on.

This is a difficult time to get into rideshare. I fully believe you made the wrong choice to buy the Hybrid. At 25mpg in the WRX, you could have squeaked out some "desperation" profit in a good market. (20-25% of gross spent on gas.) Now in the Camry, you will be able to squeak out the same profit over the first 30 months. Everyone knows that only 4% of drivers make it to the second year in this gig.

I hope you are trolling us and smirking as you get us worked up. The alternative is that you made a big mistake.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> You said you paid 8K for the Camry. Was that difference in sticker or after taxes/registration?
> 
> Lets say you are 10K in the hole. You paid 10K up front for the ability to save money on gas. So in 30 months, 2.5 years, you will break even.
> 
> ...


First I’m not trolling. I’m well aware it would be more economical to buy used vs new, but I do this full time, the actual cost per week new vs used long term is pennies per hour. I’ll gladly pay that premium to have a car that I well maintain since day one. I owned the WRX with no car payment. The $8000 out of pocket was for everything, tax registration etc. It also included an unlimited miles tire and wheel warranty, and since this car seems like a nail magnet the warranty already paid for itself, as they have replaced 5-6 tires. With Toyota’s tire warranty they don’t patch, they replace. The same if a wheel gets bent or damaged. When I bought the car in November I was paying around $700-800 a month in gas, that was at $3.50 a gallon for premium. I cut that in half, plus a less $.50 a gallon for regular. I estimated it would take around 20 months to recoup the $8000, now at $5 a gallon it will be less. Plus the comfort level of a Camry is way better than a WRX.

Buying new made sense for 3 reasons, first I want a car that I will properly maintain from day one, and second, I got this car at sticker, which is still possible if you shop around and are willing to travel to get the car, fortunately I didn’t have to go far, it was actually the closest dealer to me. And 3rd, in this crazy car market used cars are through the roof. You said it yourself your car is worth $5k more than you paid for it. The dealer I bought the car from had a used 2021, same exact model, the asking price was $500 less than what I got mine for. This dealer was fair not charging over MSRP like many dealers are, but their used car prices are insane, as in line with all dealers. And your car being worth $5k more is great if you don’t need to replace it.

The point of my post was to those that are struggling with fuel inefficient cars, my advice was simple, do the research, see what your car is worth, see what the gas savings would be upgrading to a new car, and see if the savings are worth it. I many cases they may be. This site is for advice amongst other things. I still stand by my advice. Sure my advice may not work for everyone, but doing the research will cost you nothing at all, but 30 minutes to an hour of your time. If you’re happy in your current situation, great. But my advice was to the audience at large. One size doesn’t fit all in rideshare. What works for you may not work for all.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> You said you paid 8K for the Camry. Was that difference in sticker or after taxes/registration?
> 
> Lets say you are 10K in the hole. You paid 10K up front for the ability to save money on gas. So in 30 months, 2.5 years, you will break even.
> 
> ...


PS I do this full time, drive around 6000 miles a month. Do the math, 23 mpg with the WRX vs 45-50 mpg with Camry.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> I’ve been taking $200 a week from my earnings, saving it in a separate account. That will be enough to replace the car one it hits 300k.


That's a good practice. Here's the way I do it:

I set aside $0.50 per mile every month. In my budget, I record the mileage whenever I roll over my budget to the next month. (I do that either the last day of the month or the first day of the new month.)

Right now, my "Auto fund" has $18,322.19 in it.

I deduct from that fund whenever I spend money for maintenance. The cost of the oil and filter when I change the oil. The cost of tires when I have to buy new tires. Repairing the A/C when it goes out.

One of the nice things about doing it this way is that I can see when the fund stops going up for more than a month or two at a time. That's when the cost of maintenance is higher than my threshold value, which is my [email protected] guess for replacement cost. For a more expensive car, use a higher cents per mile figure.

I started doing this a lot of years and a few cars ago. Back then, I did what you're doing, which is to put the money into a separate savings account. After a few years of that, I changed to just doing it as a bookkeeping transaction, rather than having a separate account for it.

Edit: Just as an aside, you can now get 0.9% interest in an internet bank account. If you want to keep a separate bank account for it, you might want to consider that.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

UberPro1969 said:


> PS I do this full time, drive around 6000 miles a month. Do the math, 23 mpg with the WRX vs 45-50 mpg with Camry.


What year WRX? What year Camry?

If you bought the Camry that you should have, you would be getting 40ish mpg. Not 45-50mpg. When you say 45-50, it tells me you dont know what your actual mpg is.


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## Patho (Sep 25, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> This may be a long post, so bare with me. As the title suggests, you can’t afford to not get a fuel efficient or electric car. The formula is simply. Calculate how much per month you are currently spending on gas, then calculate how much you would save with an electric or plug in hybrid, or even a regular hybrid. If you’re full time, you’ll most likely save enough in gas to make the payment of buying one new. I’ll give my car as an example. I started in October of 2021. They say the best car is the one you already own. This isn’t always true. I had a WRX. It’s a great car, but not for rideshare. I got less than 25 mpg and it needed premium gas. It took all of 2 days to decide rideshare was for me, but I needed the right car for the job. I settled on a Camry hybrid, as I know they will go 300k miles or more with no major headaches. It cost me $8000 out of pocket with my trade in. I’ve now had the car over 7 months and made most of that back with gas savings. I predicted it would take 18 months, but gas was cheaper back then. Instead of paying $5.50 for premium gas, I’m paying $5.00 for regular gas, and getting 45-50 mpg. For those in the same situation, a car that’s not fuel efficient, you could be saving $800 or more per month, that would pay for a car payment and you would have a new car on top of this. If you’re willing to sacrifice comfort and get a plug-in Prius you would probably have a lower car payment and save even more money, or say a model 3. Because whatever you own now, has a better value for trade in than 1 year ago. Do your research, if you have bad credit ask friends or family to co-sign. Just like any job, you need to the right toll for the job. Someone on Facebook posted they are using an F150 for this, but even though it was a long rant like mine, I think he was trolling, because just about everyone told him he has the wrong tool for the job.


In case anyone is wondering, the electricity for my EVs cost 3 cents/mile. A Camry hysbrid is about 10 cents/mile. (my electricity is higher than most 14cents/kwH). I also get a dollar per ride or $250 month extra for ZEI.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Patho said:


> In case anyone is wondering, the electricity for my EVs cost 3 cents/mile. A Camry hysbrid is about 10 cents/mile. (my electricity is higher than most 14cents/kwH). I also get a dollar per ride or $250 month extra for ZEI.


How many years with those cost savings will it take to pay off the difference in price between your car and an older hybrid?


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## Patho (Sep 25, 2018)

For my Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf, the extra $4k/yr from Uber covers depreciation, so effectively right away. Teslas depreciate faster, so you'ld have to do the math, but it looiks like they depreciate at around 22cents/mile as opposed to 13cents for the cheaper ones.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> What year WRX? What year Camry?
> 
> If you bought the Camry that you should have, you would be getting 40ish mpg. Not 45-50mpg. When you say 45-50, it tells me you dont know what your actual mpg is.


The WRX was a 2018. The Camry is a 2022. The variance in mpg is from tank to tank. If the tank is mostly highway miles, I get closer to 45, local travel, closer to 50. My personal best on a tank was 51, in the winter my worst was 43.5. I reset the trip meter for mpg at every fill up.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

UberPro1969 said:


> The WRX was a 2018. The Camry is a 2022. The variance in mpg is from tank to tank. If the tank is mostly highway miles, I get closer to 45, local travel, closer to 50. My personal best on a tank was 51, in the winter my worst was 43.5. I reset the trip meter for mpg at every fill up.


A base camry hybrid is 30K msrp. Just checked autotrader, local dealers selling base 2022 camry hybrid for 38K. Plus tax registration... add another 3300. You have over 40K into your new car which you are driving rideshare. Nice.

Two years from now when supply chains are operating and gas falls back to 2.75/gal, your car will have lost the 10K premium you recently paid. And it will have 100K rideshare miles and be worth about 15K.

I spent a good bit of time on the forums as you can see from my post count. Every once in a while someone like yourself comes along and thinks they have a better grasp of rideshare economics than everyone else. You aren't the first and you won't be the last.

Enjoy your new car.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> A base camry hybrid is 30K msrp. Just checked autotrader, local dealers selling base 2022 camry hybrid for 38K. Plus tax registration... add another 3300. You have over 40K into your new car which you are driving rideshare. Nice.
> 
> Two years from now when supply chains are operating and gas falls back to 2.75/gal, your car will have lost the 10K premium you recently paid. And it will have 100K rideshare miles and be worth about 15K.
> 
> ...


I actually pays sticker price, because I know what I’m doing. I paid $33k for the XLE model. Seems like you’re jealous because you can’t make a new car work in your world. I could replace this with a new car every 2 years and make more than most here. I not only have 22 years experience in ground transportation I have a brother that had been with Uber since day one. He knows the game better than any ant here. He has been making over 100k a year after expenses and replaces his car every 3 years with a brand new one. When he bought used way back, he would occasionally lose time from work, once almost 2 weeks getting a new engine. He’s ran multiple new cars over 300k miles never once has a breakdown. It’s a small premium over the long term new vs used. I wouldn’t recommend this for the guy that doesn’t own a car and us buying one to do this part time. By all means get a beater. By I drive 6000 or more miles a month. I’ll gladly pay what I estimate to be between $.50-$1 an hour to own new. But where I differ from many here, I don’t pay a fee to get my own money. I see so many, and I have to wonder if you’re one that cashes out daily. At least I’m getting something in return for getting new vs used.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> A base camry hybrid is 30K msrp. Just checked autotrader, local dealers selling base 2022 camry hybrid for 38K. Plus tax registration... add another 3300. You have over 40K into your new car which you are driving rideshare. Nice.
> 
> Two years from now when supply chains are operating and gas falls back to 2.75/gal, your car will have lost the 10K premium you recently paid. And it will have 100K rideshare miles and be worth about 15K.
> 
> ...


Just because I’m new here doesn’t mean I don’t know how to play the game. I play it well, do you even run both apps at the same time?


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## robstv (Aug 20, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> I was just reminded... for some reason the attraction to electric cars has tended to be divided along political lines. Conservatives have traditionally shied away from them, and libs by and large gravitate to them. Think two Hollywood libs like Danny DeVito, who owned the first mass produced EV, the GM EV-1. Or Ed Begley Jr. who was inextricably tied to the Toyota Prius in its early days. Or Larry David, a man who could afford _any_ car, driving a Prius on his TV show. You didn't see Charlton Heston driving those cars.
> 
> I remember way back when Toyota first introduced the Prius. It was reviewed by a conservative talk radio car show (the station aired Rush Limbaugh mornings) that was broadcast from the valley (California). The show's hosts all hated the Prius out of hand. Here Toyota had given birth to a revolutionary automobile that got 50 miles to the gallon, and the guys were poo pooing it!
> 
> Of course Tesla has broken down the liberal/conservative wall quite a bit. People from all walks of life buy them. But for some reason, whatever makes conservatives conservatives, there is an innate distrust of the technology. Like my buddy @tohunt4me, who is from oil country in Louisiana (??) HATES electric cars. Bless his heart, he has crude running through his bloodstream and will be one of the last to fall. lol.


Just like Apple people think they always have invented the latest tech, yet in reality, Android and even Window Phone had the same or better tech years earlier (copy and paste for example), electric car nuts think they magically started some great gas savings with their newest models. The facts people keep leaving out when they say 50 miles per gallon hybrids is that gas powered Honda's in the mid '80's, some 40 years ago, were rated 49 city / 52 highway. Yes, rating formulas change, and the 50 mpg hybrids get today with be rated less in short order, but don't dismiss what we have and had with gas power. While not quite 50mpg, my current $23K gas Civic turbo hatch easily goes 400+ miles on 10 gallons of regular unleaded. It frequently gets 47mpg. Many gas cars do the same. The myth that you must have electric for any decent economy is absurd. I'll take 400 to 450 miles before needing to stop for fuel any day. Heck even my 30 year old Honda motorcycle (ST1100) will go further without needing to stop than most modern EV's.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

robstv said:


> Just like Apple people think they always have invented the latest tech, yet in reality, Android and even Window Phone had the same or better tech years earlier, electric car nuts think they magically started some great gas savings with their newest models. The facts people keep leaving out when they say 50 miles per gallon hybrids is that gas powered Honda's in the mid '80's, some 40 years ago, were rated 49 city / 52 highway. Yes, rating formulas change, and the 50 mpg hybrids get today with be rated less in short order, but don't dismiss what we have and had with gas power. My current gas Civic hatch goes 400+ miles on 10 gallons of regular unleaded. Many cars do the same. The myth that you must have electric for any decent economy is absurd.


The Prius would be comparable to your Civic, it gets close to 60 mpg, more if it’s a plug in hybrid. My Camry gets close to 50mpg, and is an extremely comfortable vehicle


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

UberPro1969 said:


> I actually pays sticker price, because I know what I’m doing. I paid $33k for the XLE model. Seems like you’re jealous because you can’t make a new car work in your world. I could replace this with a new car every 2 years and make more than most here. I not only have 22 years experience in ground transportation I have a brother that had been with Uber since day one. He knows the game better than any ant here. He has been making over 100k a year after expenses and replaces his car every 3 years with a brand new one. When he bought used way back, he would occasionally lose time from work, once almost 2 weeks getting a new engine. He’s ran multiple new cars over 300k miles never once has a breakdown. It’s a small premium over the long term new vs used. I wouldn’t recommend this for the guy that doesn’t own a car and us buying one to do this part time. By all means get a beater. By I drive 6000 or more miles a month. I’ll gladly pay what I estimate to be between $.50-$1 an hour to own new. But where I differ from many here, I don’t pay a fee to get my own money. I see so many, and I have to wonder if you’re one that cashes out daily. At least I’m getting something in return for getting new vs used.


Scooby Doo Fan,

The real boss move would have been to keep your WRX and get a cheap Prius for rideshare. I wouldn't use my only car for rideshare. Are you kidding? Need a backup.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Patho said:


> In case anyone is wondering, the electricity for my EVs cost 3 cents/mile.


Some states also have an annual fee that's extra when you pay for your license plates -- paid only by electric vehicles. Do you have that where you live, and if so, how much is it?


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> Scooby Doo Fan,
> 
> The real boss move would have been to keep your WRX and get a cheap Prius for rideshare. I wouldn't use my only car for rideshare. Are you kidding? Need a backup.


When you drive a Toyota you don’t need a backup. My brother is proof of this. He has been doing rides long before Uber was even created. He starting buy new toyota hybrids in 2006, not only has he never had one break down on him, he’s had almost no repairs, and he’s driven them all 300000 or more. And I do have a backup, the wife’s car. I’ll never need it, because Heaven forbid I did have a problem, I’d just take a couple of days off. I’m not an ant that needs to work 7 days a week. I’m not working today. I only work the prime hours and days. Yes Monday morning rush hour is prime, but so is Sunday late night.

I’ll say it again, I don’t buy used, as it could be buying someones car that did poor maintenance on it. An engine replacement at 100k miles because the previous owner neglected to change the oil properly would eat any savings of used over new. And why pay insurance for a backup car. Insurance is expensive in NJ, I pay $800 a year for just my car.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> Scooby Doo Fan,
> 
> The real boss move would have been to keep your WRX and get a cheap Prius for rideshare. I wouldn't use my only car for rideshare. Are you kidding? Need a backup.


Besides I work 60 or so hours a week. I would’ve kept the WRX just to sit In my garage and be driven occasionally? Not worth that $800 a year Insurance. And I could‘ve easily afforded to keep the WRX, paid the monthly payment for the Camry. I’m actually doing that now. Unlike many ants, I actually deduct all expenses from my gross, not just gas. This includes $200 a week to replace the car in 3-4 years. This is put in a separate account that is automatically deducted from my main checking weekly. My next car will be paid all cash. That’s if I’m still doing this in a few years. I love the freedom this job offers, but if the black car industry ever recovers from Covid and the competition from Uber, I would go back with the right offer, which would be $25 an hour, and use of the car 24/7. My previous company offered 24/7 use of the car, but weekend work was a must. I worked my ass off Monday-Friday, I needed the weekend off to relax. Now my weekend is Mondays and either Tuesday or Wednesday.

Sorry for the long rant


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Some states also have an annual fee that's extra when you pay for your license plates -- paid only by electric vehicles. Do you have that where you live, and if so, how much is it?


That fee is to make up for the gas taxes an EV owner doesn’t pay.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberPro1969 said:


> That fee is to make up for the gas taxes an EV owner doesn’t pay.


Yes, it is, you're correct.

My question is -- How much is it where that person lives? I know it varies from $0 up to several hundred, from one state to another.

Since gasoline powered car drivers are paying for it at the pump, it's fair to include this annual fee in the analysis, for the electric and the plug-in hybrid drivers.

Also worth noting: Since this is a flat fee per year, electric and plug-in hybrid drivers who do a lot of miles for U/L are getting a sweet break on the deal.


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## 232200 (7 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Yes, it is, you're correct.
> 
> My question is -- How much is it where that person lives? I know it varies from $0 up to several hundred, from one state to another.
> 
> ...


I can’t answer that question, but my state, NJ proposed a per mile charge yearly when you renew the registration. The problem was that some politicians viewed this proposal as a disincentive to get an EV, and they didn’t want to look anti environment.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

I doubt that I would ever ditch my gasoline or diesel-powered vehicle for a coal or natural gas-powered (EV) one. The electric grid is already over-stressed and cannot handle supplying all of the greenie-weenie cars, that people have been convinced will save the planet, with electric power.


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## robstv (Aug 20, 2017)

UberPro1969 said:


> When you drive a Toyota you don’t need a backup....


As a driver for many years, you quickly see what cars are in the shop the most, since dealerships are a place we must often go to for riders. I thoroughly enjoy pulling into the Toyota dealership with my Honda to either pickup or drop off Toyota owners getting their cars repaired, while the Toyota employee watches with an embarrassed look on his face. We as drivers get to see which makes are the most reliable and who is not. Toyota's are up there in reliability, but defiantly not top of the line. Online reliability report surveys might not agree with what we see in real life driving day to day to all the car dealerships.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

robstv said:


> As a driver for many years, you quickly see what cars are in the shop the most, since dealerships are a place we must often go to for riders. I thoroughly enjoy pulling into the Toyota dealership with my Honda to either pickup or drop off Toyota owners getting their cars repaired, while the Toyota employee watches with an embarrassed look on his face. We as drivers get to see which makes are the most reliable and who is not. Toyota's are up there in reliability, but defiantly not top of the line. Online reliability report surveys might not agree with what we see in real life driving day to day to all the car dealerships.


Oh, my very young Padawan.... the things you don't understand.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

robstv said:


> Toyota's are up there in reliability, but defiantly not top of the line.


Okay, so in your estimation, which car brands are more reliable than Toyotas?


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## robstv (Aug 20, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Okay, so in your estimation, which car brands are more reliable than Toyotas?


Looks like you have been driving for many years as well, so you should have received a lot of input from the riders you take to and from dealerships for service. Ask why they are there and does that happen often. Use that as a survey instead of biased internet posts. I have never had to take or pickup a rider from only one common brand out there, even though they have a dealership that is closest to my most frequent location. (hint, Car and driver top list more than any other car, 36 times)


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

People who buy Toyotas, their reliability is a matter of pride. I would guess when something goes wrong, they don't shout from the rooftops.

My problem with Toyota is that perception is built into resale, regardless of the reality. So for instance, a similar year and mile Prius costs 5k more than say a Ford fusion hybrid. The Ford may go just as far as the Toyota without issues. However, if the Ford does have problems, you have the 5k you saved at purchase to cover repairs.

When you buy a Toyota, the fanboyism is built into the price, and I don't want to pay that.

The absolute worst scenario is paying the premium for a used Toyota, and also having significant repairs.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Just purchased my Camry hybrid a little over a week ago. On Friday I averaged over 56mpg and just shy of 55 on Saturday. I looked at owning a 10 year car with no payment getting 25mpg to having a car payment with what Toyota estimates are 51/53 mpg. With the number of miles I drive I will save more than enough to pay the car payment.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> That's a good practice. Here's the way I do it:
> 
> I set aside $0.50 per mile every month. In my budget, I record the mileage whenever I roll over my budget to the next month. (I do that either the last day of the month or the first day of the new month.)
> 
> ...


Ibonds are over 9% but you have to hold them for a year.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

robstv said:


> Looks like you have been driving for many years as well, so you should have received a lot of input from the riders you take to and from dealerships for service. Ask why they are there and does that happen often. Use that as a survey instead of biased internet posts. I have never had to take or pickup a rider from only one common brand out there, even though they have a dealership that is closest to my most frequent location. (hint, Car and driver top list more than any other car, 36 times)


Got it. In other words, you don't want to answer my question.

I asked you for your opinion. Take your hint and shove it.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

OldBay said:


> People who buy Toyotas, their reliability is a matter of pride. I would guess when something goes wrong, they don't shout from the rooftops.


I don't own a Toyota right now. We have a couple of Acuras, which are also very nice. And a LOT cheaper than getting a Lexus.

But I do own some Toyota stock.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

robstv said:


> Looks like you have been driving for many years as well, so you should have received a lot of input from the riders you take to and from dealerships for service. Ask why they are there and does that happen often. Use that as a survey instead of biased internet posts. I have never had to take or pickup a rider from only one common brand out there, even though they have a dealership that is closest to my most frequent location. (hint, Car and driver top list more than any other car, 36 times)


Hey @robstv (Rob?). Welcome to the forum. One thing this forum is good for is to help dispel the myth that Uber drivers are not, lets' say, _the sharpest knives in the drawer_. Toward that end we encourage new members who make statements such as yours to please back up the statements with your research and/or experience.

In claiming that, say, Hondas, are more reliable than Toyotas based on how many customers of either automaker you have have given rides to, requires some further background info. You see, your local Honda dealer -Ocean Honda in Port Richey- provides a free shuttle for its service customers. Conversely, the local Toyota Dealer -Sun Toyota- provides a free Uber ride to _its_ service customers.

Now I want you to reflect on that a bit Rob, and then tell us if maybe there is a reason you pick up more Toyota customers than Honda customers in your line of work. In other words:* Is that your final answer?*


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## Adjuster Mike (Jan 30, 2018)

Markisonit said:


> I doubt that I would ever ditch my gasoline or diesel-powered vehicle for a coal or natural gas-powered (EV) one. The electric grid is already over-stressed and cannot handle supplying all of the greenie-weenie cars, that people have been convinced will save the planet, with electric power.


When everyone is talking up EV's, does anyone ever think about how much per kilowatt hour you are adding to your monthly electric bill at home? You may want to think about that. I am keeping my gasoline-powered truck. Also, I finally made the break from U/L and I am permanently out. Landed a great gig and work less than I was with uber and make 6 times as much. I do keep up my paperwork with uber just in case something happens with my job but I do not plan on driving again. There is a lot of info out there, like this post from another social media page. It may be a little off but the over article is worth reading and thinking about. Now I do know that they are finally making EV's with a little longer battery life but they still do not appear to be more cost effective than gasoline. Here is the article. 

REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face certain realities."
"For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded. This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load."
So, as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This later "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this deadend road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine." Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip, your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So, the Government wants us to pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Adjuster Mike said:


> When everyone is talking up EV's, does anyone ever think about how much per kilowatt hour you are adding to your monthly electric bill at home? You may want to think about that. I am keeping my gasoline-powered truck.
> 
> REALITY CHECK:...
> 
> "For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.


FACT CHECK:
Sorry, must call BS on this information. It is absolutely false that a Tesla -or any other EV- _requires_ 75 AMP service. A Tesla can draw as little as 12 amps to charge, or it can draw up to 32 amps, depending on your service. In some cases you can feed a Tesla more than 32 amps (40 amp breaker), by installing a special charger, but that is strictly optional. Hundreds of thousands of EV owners are charging their cars at home and still managing to power their house. How can we believe anything else in this post when the testimony from the neighbor starts off so faulty?

Regarding the first point about "how much per kilowatt hour you are adding to your monthly electric bill at home? ", give people some credit. Anyone who seriously considers an EV ponders this, in fact it is one of the most common questions asked. Believe me, I know, because driving an EV for rideshare people ask so many questions about going electric I almost know the order they will be asked in before the rider poses them.

Fact is, the home is generally the cheapest place to charge your car. It was cheaper than gas before gas prices went up, and it is way cheaper now. And if your electric utility offers overnight discounts for charging an EV you save even more.

Is the grid ready for everyone to drive and EV and charge in the DAY TIME? No, not by a damn site. That's where the work needs to be done. So if you are going to attack EV adoption at least hit the weak spots and keep the conversation honest.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Whether or not a Tesla charging at home requires a certain size of electrical service is kind of beyond the point, guys.

I don't know where you guys live. But here in Texas, we got a wake-up call a year and a half ago. The existing electrical grid here is not up to the task of supplying power for all the cars here. And if construction started today, that new capacity wouldn't be on line for several more YEARS.


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## Nightdriver27 (Aug 27, 2016)

I own a 2016 Prius with 88k miles other than regular oil and filter changes I only bought new tires. I get 60mpg unless I use air then it drops to 51mpg. I can go 500miles without having to think about it. I am keeping it till the wheels fall off. I paid 23k for it new and the dealers are offering 18k to buy it from me..


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## Adjuster Mike (Jan 30, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> FACT CHECK:
> Sorry, must call BS on this information. It is absolutely false that a Tesla -or any other EV- _requires_ 75 AMP service. A Tesla can draw as little as 12 amps to charge, or it can draw up to 32 amps, depending on your service. In some cases you can feed a Tesla more than 32 amps (40 amp breaker), by installing a special charger, but that is strictly optional. Hundreds of thousands of EV owners are charging their cars at home and still managing to power their house. How can we believe anything else in this post when the testimony from the neighbor starts off so faulty?
> 
> Regarding the first point about "how much per kilowatt hour you are adding to your monthly electric bill at home? ", give people some credit. Anyone who seriously considers an EV ponders this, in fact it is one of the most common questions asked. Believe me, I know, because driving an EV for rideshare people ask so many questions about going electric I almost know the order they will be asked in before the rider poses them.
> ...


I appreciate the input. I have read supporting evidence but I always stand to be corrected, especially with someone elses information. You being experienced makes me listen to you before anyone. I still think owning an EV is far more expensive, due to the price of them but that is just my opinion. Thanks for the input and I will do more research. This is just how we start conversations to come to an educated conclusion and I am certainly and will always be teachable. Thanks again.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Adjuster Mike said:


> I appreciate the input. I have read supporting evidence but I always stand to be corrected, especially with someone elses information. You being experienced makes me listen to you before anyone. I still think owning an EV is far more expensive, due to the price of them but that is just my opinion. Thanks for the input and I will do more research. This is just how we start conversations to come to an educated conclusion and I am certainly and will always be teachable. Thanks again.


You are welcome, and I very much respect your statement.

Now let's talk about how much more expensive EVs are. Certainly there are some pricy ones out there, and certainly EVs are not for everyone at this juncture, but I bought my second EV because it saves money, not that it was a higher expense. Right now with gas prices what they are the math works even better. I am paying $355 /month for my Bolt (2K down) purchased new. Some drivers are paying more than that just for gasoline.

You have to add on the price of charging, which varies from $0 when someone charges at home with solar panels, to maybe $200-300 /month. But that can vary wildly and everyone must run their own numbers. Then you consider the lower cost of ownership. For non-Tesla EVs the statistics history is quite favorable. You are less out of pocket each month due to no oil changes, no brake jobs, no smog checks, and a fraction of the moving parts to break.

Just some food for thought....


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## alibaba40 (Mar 7, 2020)

Adjuster Mike said:


> When everyone is talking up EV's, does anyone ever think about how much per kilowatt hour you are adding to your monthly electric bill at home? You may want to think about that. I am keeping my gasoline-powered truck. Also, I finally made the break from U/L and I am permanently out. Landed a great gig and work less than I was with uber and make 6 times as much. I do keep up my paperwork with uber just in case something happens with my job but I do not plan on driving again. There is a lot of info out there, like this post from another social media page. It may be a little off but the over article is worth reading and thinking about. Now I do know that they are finally making EV's with a little longer battery life but they still do not appear to be more cost effective than gasoline. Here is the article.
> 
> REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face certain realities."
> "For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded. This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load."
> ...


The grid is no more loaded when the Tesla is charging than when the air conditioner is turned on.


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## alibaba40 (Mar 7, 2020)

I drive over 350 miles and 10 hours a day and change all tires about half a year. Tesla doesn't meet my needs. Practically all electric cars today can't.
1. It can be fully charged in 8 hours at home.
2. It can drive more than 400 miles with the air conditioner on.
3. The fast charging pile can be fully charged to 80% in half an hour.
4. Cheap wheels can be replaced anywhere.
5. Sufficient charging facilities to meet the needs of charging at any time.
Now only one car made by China's BYD meets the requirements, but it is not sold or serviced in the United States.


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## Fawäd Mastoi (Dec 7, 2018)

robstv said:


> As a driver for many years, you quickly see what cars are in the shop the most, since dealerships are a place we must often go to for riders. I thoroughly enjoy pulling into the Toyota dealership with my Honda to either pickup or drop off Toyota owners getting their cars repaired, while the Toyota employee watches with an embarrassed look on his face. We as drivers get to see which makes are the most reliable and who is not. Toyota's are up there in reliability, but defiantly not top of the line. Online reliability report surveys might not agree with what we see in real life driving day to day to all the car dealerships.


Mate, a simple observation of your observation is that there are simply more Toyotas (starting from Yaris, all the way to Landcruiser and Seqoia), so naturally their servicing would be proportional to the their market share.
The following cars are in my top three in terms of reliability:
1) Toyota
2) Mazda
3) Honda

Although I did have a 1992 Nissan Datsun 120Y, that I bought from a panel beater for $300, had it for more than three years, only needed regular servicing, wheel balancing and petrol during these years. When I was ready to buy again, I simply drove it to a wrecker, drove it in to his workshop, gave him the key, got $50 for it, took the plates off, returned to our RTA, got $320 for the refund in unused registration.
I can assure you, Toyota’s are definitely the most reliable vehicle you can have. Here in Australia people use them for ‘bush-bashing’ and under extreme conditions. We still have 80’s Corollas running around in Melbourne and Regional areas.


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## christophersullivan1 (7 mo ago)

Fawäd Mastoi said:


> Mate, a simple observation of your observation is that there are simply more Toyotas (starting from Yaris, all the way to Landcruiser and Seqoia), so naturally their servicing would be proportional to the their market share.
> The following cars are in my top three in terms of reliability:
> 1) Toyota
> 2) Mazda
> ...


The Yaris is absolutely killer. I bought one damn near New about 3 years ago for $9,000 and it was the best investment I ever made by far. It's something like the third most fuel efficient car ever made, not including hybrids or electric vehicles of course, and it's reliability is absolutely top-notch. It may be the most economical car ever made. I drive mine like a hot rod and I've hit three deer in it and it's still runs like a champ. 200,000 miles and still going strong. I can't believe Toyota discontinued them it's a travesty.


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## christophersullivan1 (7 mo ago)

Economically speaking 4 cylinder sub compacts might still be the way to go. But with gas getting more and more expensive hybrids might start being the vehicle of choice.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

alibaba40 said:


> The grid is no more loaded when the Tesla is charging than when the air conditioner is turned on.


There's a problem with that logic.

Do you plan to turn off the A/C in your house while that Tesla is charging?


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## VegasJeff (Sep 15, 2015)

Adjuster Mike said:


> I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.


I think you are getting robbed Mike! I never heard of electricity that costs so much. I've been paying $0.05 - $0.12 per kwh. Where do you live?


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

This site offers a lot of good information for any used car in the US market. It shows reliability and recalls for any given year.

Car Complaints


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## Bulls23 (Sep 4, 2015)

232200 said:


> This may be a long post, so bare with me. As the title suggests, you can’t afford to not get a fuel efficient or electric car. The formula is simply. Calculate how much per month you are currently spending on gas, then calculate how much you would save with an electric or plug in hybrid, or even a regular hybrid. If you’re full time, you’ll most likely save enough in gas to make the payment of buying one new. I’ll give my car as an example. I started in October of 2021. They say the best car is the one you already own. This isn’t always true. I had a WRX. It’s a great car, but not for rideshare. I got less than 25 mpg and it needed premium gas. It took all of 2 days to decide rideshare was for me, but I needed the right car for the job. I settled on a Camry hybrid, as I know they will go 300k miles or more with no major headaches. It cost me $8000 out of pocket with my trade in. I’ve now had the car over 7 months and made most of that back with gas savings. I predicted it would take 18 months, but gas was cheaper back then. Instead of paying $5.50 for premium gas, I’m paying $5.00 for regular gas, and getting 45-50 mpg. For those in the same situation, a car that’s not fuel efficient, you could be saving $800 or more per month, that would pay for a car payment and you would have a new car on top of this. If you’re willing to sacrifice comfort and get a plug-in Prius you would probably have a lower car payment and save even more money, or say a model 3. Because whatever you own now, has a better value for trade in than 1 year ago. Do your research, if you have bad credit ask friends or family to co-sign. Just like any job, you need to the right toll for the job. Someone on Facebook posted they are using an F150 for this, but even though it was a long rant like mine, I think he was trolling, because just about everyone told him he has the wrong tool for the job.


100% agree on this. I am currently driving Prius and have been thinking about switching to EV. Even before recent gas price hike, I knew you gotta drive something that gets you at least 40 MPG in this gig to make sense. Thank you for raising awareness. 

Now let me ask you a few questions, if you don't mind. 

1. How do you like your Bolt? Any issues or concerns? 
2. What is a typical range in a hot summer day using A/C and in the winter? 
3. Does Bolt require "special" more expensive tires as some other EVs?

Thank you in advance.


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## Underpaid (Mar 26, 2019)

Markisonit said:


> I doubt that I would ever ditch my gasoline or diesel-powered vehicle for a coal or natural gas-powered (EV) one. The electric grid is already over-stressed and cannot handle supplying all of the greenie-weenie cars, that people have been convinced will save the planet, with electric power.


Aside from that, some of us drive for 10-12 hour shifts. The average batter span of an EV is 4.5hrs. The other aspect, Uber is constantly lowering pay rates and incentives, going to buy a $50k+ car plus accumulated interest, the highest interest because it’s for Uber. Then drive it into the ground for peanuts?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

NorCalPhil said:


> Only a fool would go 30k+ in debt stretched over multiple years to change the fuel they use because gas is high now.


This is a big part of it, and it's true regardless of the source of energy for the car. It makes no sense to buy a $30k car for Ubering regardless of whether it's powered by expensive gasoline or slightly less expensive electricity.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Bulls23 said:


> 100% agree on this. I am currently driving Prius and have been thinking about switching to EV. Even before recent gas price hike, I knew you gotta drive something that gets you at least 40 MPG in this gig to make sense. Thank you for raising awareness.
> 
> Now let me ask you a few questions, if you don't mind.
> 
> ...


You might be waiting a while for a reply 🤷‍♂️


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## Bulls23 (Sep 4, 2015)

New2This said:


> You might be waiting a while for a reply 🤷‍♂️
> 
> View attachment 664249


Oh, I didn’t notice that. Thanks for heads up.


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## Carl Riber (Dec 18, 2018)

Markisonit said:


> I doubt that I would ever ditch my gasoline or diesel-powered vehicle for a coal or natural gas-powered (EV) one. The electric grid is already over-stressed and cannot handle supplying all of the greenie-weenie cars, that people have been convinced will save the planet, with electric power.


That electric grid stress argument is another oil company myth that Fox cable network likes to spread because they are financed by big oil money.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Carl Riber said:


> That electric grid stress argument is another oil company myth that Fox cable network likes to spread because they are financed by big oil money.


Maybe you'd feel differently about that if you lived through the freeze here in Texas in February 2021.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm not trying to start a problem or being a troll but I just don't understand, the way some of you look at all these numbers, why is everything always looked at as a negative and what you lost and what you're not going to get, I Really struggle to understand this, so if you bought a car for $30,000 a few years ago and you can sell it for $15,000 and now you want to buy another car for about $30,000 you don't see it as you have $15,000 now I only have to finance 15,000 and have a car payment that's only maybe in the three or four hundreds or maybe even in the upper 200 I don't understand why everything is considered as a freaking loss,

In other words I don't hear other business people are companies whose let's say moving from one manufacturing building to another manufacturing building and the other building was 5 million and now they're going into a $10 million building I don't hear them go well we losing 5 million dollars I hear them talk about what they're going to gain from the new building our new equipment or whatever, but it seems like every time I see numbers posted by Uber drivers it's guess about what they lost from what they're getting rid of,

It's almost like I'm hearing, that some of you think the cost of your equipment your car it's supposed to be free that is supposed to have no depreciation value at all, I guess a good example is I don't hear of some guy who decides to buy a food truck, maybe spend $100,000 for it, in 4,5, or 6 years later he becomes very successful and needs a bigger food truck, now he can only sell the one he has let's say $50,000, I don't see one of them running around crying going oh my God I lost $50,000, I think he's more like wow I sold this truck for $50,000 now I can buy a bigger one cuz I got a big down payment I'm just lost I don't understand maybe I'm just stupid.


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## Merc49 (Apr 30, 2019)

Only thing that I like about EV's is when you use them to their life's capacity you can crack open the lithium fuel cell and drive in puddles then watch them burn violently, collect the insurance and go get another one.


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