# Uber driver sees passenger in wheelchair, takes off



## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

CONCORD, Calif. (KGO) -- On-demand ridesharing has become the new normal way to get around -- but not for everyone. Disability advocates say Uber and Lyft have left millions of passengers in the dust -- without equal access to rides.









By Renee Koury 

Now a Bay Area man is suddenly among those left behind - after a terrible car crash six years ago changed his life forever.

"Becoming paralyzed is hard,'' said Joshua Foster, 35, of Concord. "I've gone through all this crap, it's hard, multiple surgeries, it's tough."

Yet, Foster says he's also stronger than ever. "I live in my own house... I take care of my own self."

He also drives his own car, swiftly folding his wheelchair and hoisting himself in the driver's seat.

But that is far from his only strength.

Foster is a world-class wheelchair bodybuilder, ranking in the top ten in professional competitions. "You have never met a more able handicapped person than myself," he said.

And so he was stunned about what happened one night.

"I wanted to go out and have fun, and so I called an Uber," he said.

Foster was heading to a friend's birthday party, and wanted to drink -- and not drive. So he called an Uber. However, when the driver pulled up, he didn't see Foster.

He saw a man in a wheelchair.

"He looked at me and he just literally went, 'No-o-o-o-o-o. No. No. No. No. No. I can't do this,' " Foster recalled, shaking his head vigorously as the driver did. "I was like, 'Are you sure?' ''

Foster tried to explain he didn't need help, that he could get in and out of the car himself.

"I was like, 'Hey man this is how it goes. I'm gonna hop on the seat, the wheels come off, the cushion comes off, I'll fold it and it sits right behind me 'cause, I drive my own self.'" Foster recalled saying. "He goes, 'No! Shut the door.' He just backed up and I'm like-- wow."

The Uber driver took off, leaving Foster in the driveway.

"I just want people to understand you can't keep doing this,'' Foster said. "You can't make people feel like they're less than human just because of a wheelchair."

Foster tried to report it to Uber. He did get a response, but it wasn't helpful.

"They were like, 'how do you rate your experience? A five or a one?' '' he recalls. "I'm like pfft. It was treating me like a robot. A Twitter robot."

Foster said he wanted to talk to Uber about making the service more accessible for people with disabilities. For example, he suggested a button in the app to notify drivers that the passenger will be using a wheelchair. Or a way to call a wheelchair accessible vehicle. As ridesharing companies increasingly take over the transportation industry, advocates say, they're not meeting their legal obligation to also serve those with special needs.

Foster contacted 7 On Your Side. We told his story to Uber, and the company said it does comply with ADA, the Americans With Disabilities Act, saying: "Drivers who use the Uber app agree to accommodate riders with disabilities and must comply with accessibility laws. We do not condone discrimination."

"You can't just drive up and see someone in a wheelchair and say I'm outta here,'' said Melissa Riess, attorney with Berkeley-based Disability Rights Advocates. The non-profit legal group has sued both Uber and Lyft for what it claims is a failure to provide access to those with special needs.

But it's not clear whether all gig-economy drivers, many of whom are just signing up, will comply with ADA, or even understand it.

"If you are a provider of transportation you must comply with the ADA,'' Riess said.

However, the law doesn't require drivers to take extraordinary measures, such as using special vehicles, to accommodate the disabled, Riess said.

"Just because you're covered by the ADA doesn't mean you have to go to the ends of the earth to accommodate people with disabilities, but you have to take reasonable steps,'' Riess said. For example, she said, "They're driving a Prius, and you have a collapsible wheelchair that can fit in the trunk. They (drivers) are obligated not to discriminate against you on the basis you're in a wheelchair, and give you a ride if it's possible."

Drivers also are obligated to let special needs passengers bring a service animal into the car, she said.

She said Uber and Lyft have gone full speed ahead in providing on-demand service, but forgot about those with disabilities. A transportation company is obligated to serve everyone under ADA.

Uber is testing a "wheelchair accessible vehicle" program in a few cities, but not yet in the Bay Area. Lyft has a button for disabled passengers but instead of rides, the app provides links to paratransit services, with phone numbers and website links. Both companies say they are working to improve their services for those with special needs.

As for Foster, another Uber driver did pick him up that night. After he reported the incident, Uber refunded his $8.00 fare, and the company promised to investigate the driver's actions. Foster says that does nothing to solve the larger problem.

"You hurt me big time by not treating me like a person,'' he said of being abandoned. "I'm hurt but I'm strong."

He worries more about other people with disabilities who are not as strong or independent. He sees them as a forgotten people who get discouraged by rejection and too often remain isolated. Uber and Lyft drivers, many just average folks doing a side job, may not realize how their actions affect those they leave behind.

"I don't want people with disabilities to be afraid to do stuff,'' he said. "To go, have fun, celebrate your friend's birthday. The number one thing is, we're human. This (wheelchair) isn't who we are. It's just transportation."

https://abc7news.com/technology/uber-driver-refuses-to-pick-up-passenger-in-wheelchair/5278327/


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

That driver was a ******bag. As long as wheelchair-bound pax can get in and out themselves and the wheelchair will fit in the car, I see no reason not to take them.


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## Rog’O Datto (Jul 30, 2019)

I hope his fare wasn't refunded from the driver who actually took him.



ariel5466 said:


> That driver was a @@@@@@bag. As long as wheelchair-bound pax can get in and out themselves and the wheelchair will fit in the car, I see no reason not to take them.


I have only had one, older lady, she had help from family members getting in and the chair. I pushed her to the door when we got there.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Rog'O Datto said:


> I hope his fare wasn't refunded from the driver who actually took him.


Yeah the article worded that part weirdly. I think his fare was probably refunded because of the previous driver but the driver who took him still got paid. He should use that refund to tip the driver who took him.


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## Rog’O Datto (Jul 30, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Yeah the article worded that part weirdly. I think his fare was probably refunded because of the previous driver but the driver who took him still got paid. He should use that refund to tip the driver who took him.


Should, probably won't and didn't . ??‍♂


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

I've only driven a small handful of people that needed assistance such as putting a wheelchair or walker in the trunk. My grandfather and a close friend are wheelchair bound so I sort of have a soft spot for this. They've always been very grateful.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

I've always done my best to accommodate disabled riders by opening doors, folding wheelchairs and putting it in my trunk and even push them if need be. No one knows what will happen to me in the future and I'd want someone to do the same for me if I can't make use of my legs anymore. The driver is a dirtbag.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

I completely understand and can certainly sympathize where this passenger is coming from.

But it’s a liability, even if he can get in or out of the vehicle himself without assistance.

Do you really think Uber or Lyft are going to have your back if this guy slips, stumbles, or falls and gets hurt getting in or out of your vehicle?

Isn’t this why specially equipped vehicles are made to accommodate wheelchairs?

Just sayin’...

But I do and will agree however the way the original driver handled this situation was completely wrong.


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## Rog’O Datto (Jul 30, 2019)

It makes me feel good to help anyone who needs it. I also have a soft spot because 4 years ago I spent one month in a live-in physical rehab learning how to walk again after complications from back surgery.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Do you really think Uber or Lyft are going to have your back if this guy slips, stumbles, or falls and gets hurt getting in or out of your vehicle?


I'd like to think U/L would cover that. At that point, their insurance is active and should cover just about anything.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

I have to decline wheelchair rides because the wheelchairs don't fit in my trunk. (Camry Hybrid; the hybrid battery takes up a lot of the space which is very limited as a result).

But I would take them if possible. I ride denied a pax a couple of months ago because the wheelchair would not fit, but I would not have taken her anyway. She was a severely mentally disabled Lyft medical patient. She required a carer to be with her. She was wheeled out to the car, sitting on incontinence pads on the wheelchair.

No way would I take her even if the chair fit in the car - she was a case for specialist medical transport.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

I’ve driven several pax with wheelchairs, walkers or rollators They were able to get in/out of the car alone. Only one pax needed assistance getting in, but her caregiver was with her. 

Like Ariel said, as long as they can get in/out by themselves, there is no issue. I just don’t want to accept the liability if I had to pick them up since we are not med transport.


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## Rog’O Datto (Jul 30, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I have to decline wheelchair rides because the wheelchairs don't fit in my trunk. (Camry Hybrid; the hybrid battery takes up a lot of the space which is very limited as a result).
> 
> But I would take them if possible. I ride denied a pax a couple of months ago because the wheelchair would not fit, but I would not have taken her anyway. She was severy mentally disabled


Shame on whoever tried to put her in a RS car.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I have to decline wheelchair rides because the wheelchairs don't fit in my trunk. (Camry Hybrid; the hybrid battery takes up a lot of the space which is very limited as a result).


Sorry but if a vehicle can't fit a wheelchair, then it should be removed from the platform.



losiglow said:


> I'd like to think U/L would cover that. At that point, their insurance is active and should cover just about anything.


Not true. My friend's daughter does Uber in my area. Her car was carjacked by the pax, and Uber's insurance isn't covering her vehicle for theft.

I wouldn't trust that Uber's insurance would cover medical for a pax falling. This is Uber after all, who isn't ethical.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

I have transported many elderly people and others with disabilities with no issues. 

Unfortunately, I do not trust the entities named Uber and Lyft to ever have my best interest at heart.

If you trust a company that will immediately deactivate you on the sole word of a pax, just imagine the fiasco that could or will occur should a pax get hurt under your watch. Even more so if they already have a disability.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Invisible said:


> Sorry but if a vehicle can't fit a wheelchair, then it should be removed from the platform.


No need to be sorry; fortunately rideshare cars don't need to be rideshare compliant so I am unaffected.

These companies are required to have a certain number of WAV in service; a requirement they probably ignore. But that's the right solution - to push the expense of providing WAV onto Uberlyft rather than on the drivers.


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## i_k (Jul 30, 2016)

UberAssist is there to accommodate people with disabilities and seniors. I’m not sure if it’s available in his market or if there weren’t any available at the time. If he didn’t want to order UberAssist and take an UberX instead because he’s more than capable of getting in and out of a car, I don’t see that as a problem, though, I can see why some inconsiderate drivers would. 

Regardless, the driver shouldn’t have declined the man a ride. That’s a itch move..


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

I've helped a lady that injured her knee in/out of the car and back to her home.
I even helped her get inside her home.
It literally took me an extra 10 mins but she tipped me like $10 for being such a gentleman.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

I once had to refuse a lady (middle aged, very heavy set) who ordered a ride with her Rascal Scooter.









I was driving a Prius C2 at the time (the smallest of the Prius family.)









I'm sure a strong man could lift that thing up and turn it sideways in a regular Prius, but no one is getting that into a C2, plus I'm a female not bigger than that scooter (sideways.) Her complaint was why are compact cars being allowed on the X platform without prior notice to the riders. I told her it's a 4 door, and not only that, it was one of those Xchange Lease cars, so Uber is well aware of it. I'm not slipping anything by Uber. I had to cancel and I pulled to the corner to watch and see what happened with the next driver that showed up. Sure enough, here comes a standard Prius. I watched as the guy got out, opened his hatchback, and folded his back seat down. Then I watched him struggle with the weight of that scooter as he tried to tilt it sideways.

OOOOPS! Did he just put a paint scratch on his bumper?  Hope that wasn't an Xchange Lease vehicle too....(90 % chance it was in Seattle.):rollseyes:

Ping!.....Ping!......I got another request, and drove away from that dumpster fire.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Fake Service Animal....they will never see me cancelling.

Person in a wheelchair, hop on in (literally).

I took 5 members of the US Sled Hockey team from their practice facility to a strip joint (3 had chairs) right before they left for the Beijing Paraolympics. They won gold!


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## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> CONCORD, Calif. (KGO) -- On-demand ridesharing has become the new normal way to get around -- but not for everyone. Disability advocates say Uber and Lyft have left millions of passengers in the dust -- without equal access to rides.
> 
> View attachment 344035
> 
> ...


That's sad, it really doesn't take much effort to help some sort these days

Driver deserves to be deactivated

A good amount of my (not many) disabled I get are wounded warriors


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Lissetti said:


> CONCORD, Calif. (KGO) -- On-demand ridesharing has become the new normal way to get around -- but not for everyone. Disability advocates say Uber and Lyft have left millions of passengers in the dust -- without equal access to rides.
> 
> View attachment 344035
> 
> ...


Not Good !
A wheel chair really isnt that big of a deal.
Takes about as long as a couple of suitcases.
Fold and stow in trunk.

Give em a break !.

I EXPECT A.D.A. STINGS IN THE NEAR FUTURE !

FINEING INDIVIDUAL DRIVERS .

UNDERCOVER STYLE.

DRIVE OFF, GET PULLED OVER.
GET $500.00 TICKET.

WORD WILL SPREAD QUICK.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SFOspeedracer said:


> A good amount of my disabled I get are wounded warriors


We get many of those here, as well, Washington's being what it is. We have a large Veteran''s Hospital here. We got more when WRAMC was in the City, but, when they combined it with Bethesda Naval, many of those trips moved out to the suburbs.

The fold-ups are not bad. If I can not get them into the trunk, usually I can put the customer in the front seat and put the thing in the back. If there is any dirt, the Dustbuster™ usually makes short work of it.


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## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> We get many of those here, as well, Washington's being what it is. We have a large Veteran''s Hospital here. We got more when WRAMC was in the City, but, when they combined it with Bethesda Naval, many of those trips moved out to the suburbs.
> 
> The fold-ups are not bad. If I can not get them into the trunk, usually I can put the customer in the front seat and put the thing in the back. If there is any dirt, the Dustbuster™ usually makes short work of it.


Yup that's usually what I have to do, nowadays they are mostly the walkers with the basket underneath, Maybe last year was my last actual wheelchair

I remember living in Ft belvoir taking trips to Walter reed, there was also a clinic in dumfries, VA I used to go to

you just brang back some memories


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## GoldenGoji (Apr 30, 2018)

Uber should just make it optional for drivers to take people on wheelchairs or not. If your car can't handle it or you personally can't deal with wheelchair bound people, then have a way to opt out from picking up these people. It's better to leave them to people who can actually handle them.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

GoldenGoji said:


> Uber should just make it optional for drivers to take people on wheelchairs or not. If your car can't handle it or you personally can't deal with wheelchair bound people, then have a way to opt out from picking up these people. It's better to leave them to people who can actually handle them.


If you cant handle the job.
Dont apply for it.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

GoldenGoji said:


> or you personally can't deal with wheelchair bound people


Wtf? What's there to "deal with?" They're just people like every other pax you pick up


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

I've picked up a few people with walkers, and one with a wheel chair. They have all been polite and appreciative. If they had been rude or obnoxious, I would treat them like any other rude obnoxious pax. And that's the best thing you can do for them. But so far that's hypothetical. 

I drive XL. And I think anyone with a wheelchair should be ordering XL only. Sounds to me like this driver may have had some previous experiences with his car being damaged. He's not saying no to the person, he's saying no to the potential damage. But its not a problem in an XL. Just fold the rear seats down. A wheel chair is just as easy as luggage or groceries.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Invisible said:


> Not true. My friend's daughter does Uber in my area. Her car was carjacked by the pax, and Uber's insurance isn't covering her vehicle for theft.
> 
> I wouldn't trust that Uber's insurance would cover medical for a pax falling. This is Uber after all, who isn't ethical.


Now, THAT is something that (if it happened to me) I would need a judge to tell me that Uber is not liable.


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## Projecthelpusall (Jul 8, 2019)

I’m disabled and can’t lift more than 25 lbs from my previous job as a respiratory tech. I have degenerated disk disease. So even if I wanted to I can’t. So did Uber ask me why I’m doing this job . No. So maybe they should ask us if we are capable of lifting wheelchairs , luggage and groceries etc . Then opt me out. Both lyft and Uber are in for a awakening in Ca. When ab5 passes. We have taken enough of the b.s. and pay cuts and bonus cuts and everything else. My income was cut in half and this is the complaint? Pax should be thankful we are picking up anyone. And I tell every pax what Uber has done to our pay. My tips have never been so good since I’ve been telling them. They agree and think it’s unfair to drivers. Uber does not care about any of us . That’s why they didn’t really respond to this poor guy. My two cents.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> That driver was a @@@@@@bag. As long as wheelchair-bound pax can get in and out themselves and the wheelchair will fit in the car, I see no reason not to take them.


The only problem I would have is the wheelchair itself. Will it fit in my vehicle, and will I be tearing up my interior trying to get it to fit? I picked up a family with a guy in a wheelchair. It was definitely a tight squeeze, the wheelchair just barely fit in the back, but I did tear up my interior a bit. I'd liken it to picking up grocery shoppers, a bit of an annoyance, with most likely no extra compensation.


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## yankdog (Jul 19, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> We get many of those here, as well, Washington's being what it is. We have a large Veteran''s Hospital here. We got more when WRAMC was in the City, but, when they combined it with Bethesda Naval, many of those trips moved out to the suburbs.
> 
> The fold-ups are not bad. If I can not get them into the trunk, usually I can put the customer in the front seat and put the thing in the back. If there is any dirt, the Dustbuster™ usually makes short work of it.


Precisely. Lots of vets here in the DC area. I pick up at Walter Reed from time to time and the area. It's not uncommon. I never turn them down. I couldn't if I wanted to.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Lissetti said:


> I once had to refuse a lady (middle aged, very heavy set) who ordered a ride with her Rascal Scooter.
> 
> View attachment 344064


I would never need to call an Uber if I had one of these


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> I once had to refuse a lady (middle aged, very heavy set) who ordered a ride with her Rascal Scooter.
> 
> View attachment 344064
> 
> ...


I wonder why the lady didn't just drive on her Rascal Scooter, it's probably faster than a prius ?


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## BadYota (Aug 7, 2019)

Projecthelpusall said:


> I'm disabled and can't lift more than 25 lbs from my previous job as a respiratory tech. I have degenerated disk disease. So even if I wanted to I can't. So did Uber ask me why I'm doing this job . No. So maybe they should ask us if we are capable of lifting wheelchairs , luggage and groceries etc . Then opt me out. Both lyft and Uber are in for a awakening in Ca. When ab5 passes. We have taken enough of the b.s. and pay cuts and bonus cuts and everything else. My income was cut in half and this is the complaint? Pax should be thankful we are picking up anyone. And I tell every pax what Uber has done to our pay. My tips have never been so good since I've been telling them. They agree and think it's unfair to drivers. Uber does not care about any of us . That's why they didn't really respond to this poor guy. My two cents.


I agree. I've picked a few old ladies who both had walkers but those were pretty light. Remember how mad people got that Uber black drivers would have to be quiet during trips or help with the luggage? People were outraged and said there was no expectation they would have to get out of their vehicle. I feel bad for the guy but I also recognize the drivers right to cancel the ride. I don't think he was rude at all. He DID NOT insult the man, just said no. This is not like a service animal that will get in and out on its own. Even though I also disagree with this option because if you are allergic to dogs or your next passenger is than this is also a liability. I should not be expected to get out of my vehicle when I can't lift much with back problems and try to fit a wheelchair in my trunk. What if it doesn't fit? What if it breaks while I try to fold/unfold it? You can get a 1 star from just about anything. As an independent contractor, I just can't take the liability of transporting people like that. There are services and most are free to use for wheelchair bound people.
Think with your head not with your heart.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No way would I take her even if the chair fit in the car - she was a case for specialist medical transport.


Just an FYI, no, this isn't criteria for "specialist medical transport" - wheelchair van, perhaps.

Just because someone has a disability (including mental / developmental) does not mean that they require medical attention. I think that's a big reason why rides like this are rejected, the misconception that anyone who does not look "normal" makes it a "medical transport".


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Just because someone has a disability (including mental / developmental) does not mean that they require medical attention. I think that's a big reason why rides like this are rejected, the misconception that anyone who does not look "normal" makes it a "medical transport".


Agreed, the reason for her requiring specialist medical transport was not due to her mental condition, but due to her physical condition. The incontinence pads she was sitting on in her wheelchair indicated she had a problem with incontinence. Specialist medical transport vehicles have waterproof vinyl seats and rubber flooring - they are adapted to facilitate the cleaning up of all kinds of bodily fluids emitted by patients.

A standard saloon car with leather seats and carpeted floors was not the appropriate transport medium for her.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Agreed, the reason for her requiring specialist medical transport was not due to her mental condition, but due to her physical condition. The incontinence pads she was sitting on in her wheelchair indicated she had a problem with incontinence. Specialist medical transport vehicles have waterproof vinyl seats and rubber flooring - they are adapted to facilitate the cleaning up of all kinds of bodily fluids emitted by patients.
> 
> A standard saloon car with leather seats and carpeted floors was not the appropriate transport medium for her.


Rubber flooring?! ? What kind of vehicle are you talking about? If you are referring to an ambulance, got news for ya - nothing makes cleaning easy after some nasty stuff.

Here's the thing. Incontinence or being gross in general doesn't warrant medical transport - as that's simply a daily issue for that individual, not something that requires medical care from A to B. So that leaves the bus, a taxi, or RS.

It's up to you if you want to refuse service but just understand that RS is the appropriate means of transportation, not an ambulance. Wheelchair van, perhaps - but even that can be expensive and may not be covered by insurance.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Agreed, the reason for her requiring specialist medical transport was not due to her mental condition, but due to her physical condition. The incontinence pads she was sitting on in her wheelchair indicated she had a problem with incontinence. Specialist medical transport vehicles have waterproof vinyl seats and rubber flooring - they are adapted to facilitate the cleaning up of all kinds of bodily fluids emitted by patients.
> 
> A standard saloon car with leather seats and carpeted floors was not the appropriate transport medium for her.


Yea, Medical Transports are one thing.

Helping someone who is handicapped is another. People always talking about "liability". Every time you turn that car on you take risks. I'll take my chances being a decent person and helping someone who is handicapped or old.

Wonder what the % of people always screaming "liability" also bash Trump for all the d-bag things he says. Perhaps they are really 2 peas in a pod.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

DriverMark said:


> Helping someone who is handicapped is another. People always talking about "liability". Every time you turn that car on you take risks.


Exactly. Worried about liability? Don't go around picking up strangers from the Internet. ?

Elect to take matters into your own hands, such as driving people to the ER that may be overdosing or pulling out tampons, yes - that could have some liability concerns. But still covered by Good Samaritan laws.

Giving a ride to someone who is disabled and not experiencing any sort of medical emergency, nor requiring constant medical attention? No "liability" concerns, at least no more than any other passenger.

By the way, picking up someone from the ER or hospital after they have been discharged *DOES NOT MAKE IT A "MEDICAL TRANSPORT!" *At that point, they're a pax like any other.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

DriverMark said:


> Helping someone who is handicapped is another. People always talking about "liability". Every time you turn that car on you take risks. I'll take my chances being a decent person and helping someone who is handicapped or old.
> 
> Wonder what the % of people always screaming "liability" also bash Trump for all the d-bag things he says. Perhaps they are really 2 peas in a pod.


No, liability was irrelevant to this ride.

As far as wanting to take someone in one's car who is liable to secrete bodily fluids into it, it's not a matter of disabled vs disabled. When driving the drink shift I deny service to drunks based on risk I assess that they may vomit in my car. These pax are not even disabled; I simply don't want my car puked in. The same goes for this woman - I don't want my car pissed or shitted in; it's as simple as that. The question then arises, should we drivers be responsible for providing community transport for people who are not in charge of their bodily functions? There is no right or wrong answer. My opinion is no.

Not sure what Trump has to do with taking incontinent pax, but he is a topic for discussion that holds no interest for me.



Benjamin M said:


> Exactly. Worried about liability? Don't go around picking up strangers from the Internet. ?
> 
> Elect to take matters into your own hands, such as driving people to the ER that may be overdosing or pulling out tampons, yes - that could have some liability concerns. But still covered by Good Samaritan laws.
> 
> ...


As above, "liability" is not a concern that I have while doing rideshare.

As far as any perceived moral obligation that rideshare drivers have to take incontinent pax, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. There is no right or wrong answer; only opinion.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, liability was irrelevant to this ride.
> 
> As far as wanting to take someone in one's car who is liable to secrete bodily fluids into it, it's not a matter of disabled vs disabled. When driving the drink shift I deny service to drunks based on risk I assess that they may vomit in my car. These pax are not even disabled; I simply don't want my car puked in. The same goes for this woman - I don't want my car pissed or shitted in; it's as simple as that. The question then arises, should we drivers be responsible for providing community transport for people who are not in charge of their bodily functions? There is no right or wrong answer. My opinion is no.
> 
> ...


I was mainly trying to convey that there are a lot of misconceptions regarding what drivers seem to think requires an ambulance vs taxi/Uber. "Medical transport" is thrown around when what is described does not warrant it.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

No surprise Uber just asked for a 1 to 5 on his experience.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> I was mainly trying to convey that there are a lot of misconceptions regarding what drivers seem to think requires an ambulance vs taxi/Uber. "Medical transport" is thrown around when what is described does not warrant it.


Is it considered medical transport if it's paid for by a health insurance company or Medicaid?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> Is it considered medical transport if it's paid for by a health insurance company or Medicaid?


Is the individual experiencing a medical emergency? Do they require monitoring or continuous care during the trip? If "no", not a "medical transport".

Some hospitals seem to be ordering or helping order U/L for patients going home. I think that's fantastic! Far less expensive than an unnecessary ambulance ride and takes the strain off of that system.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> I was mainly trying to convey that there are a lot of misconceptions regarding what drivers seem to think requires an ambulance vs taxi/Uber. "Medical transport" is thrown around when what is described does not warrant it.


Clarification of terms would help. Medical transport incudes both EMT (emergency medical transport) and non-emergency medical transport. I think that non-emergency medical transport would have suited this patient perfectly with wheelchair access and rubber flooring Clearly, an EMT ambulance with flashing lights and sirens would not have been as unsuitable for her as a standard saloon car.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Pax Collector said:


> I've always done my best to accommodate disabled riders by opening doors, folding wheelchairs and putting it in my trunk and even push them if need be. No one knows what will happen to me in the future and I'd want someone to do the same for me if I can't make use of my legs anymore. The driver is a dirtbag.


I also accommodate those disabled passengers, but there's a point where I get annoyed that we are having to handle more tasks than we are being paid for. I do appreciate when these folks tip , and occasionally they do. If it's their account they may tip. The insurance company pick ups never tip and those calls take up time . I'm not trying to be heartless. I am totally fine doing this once in a while . But if the insurance companies continue to abuse the service , U/L will have to raise the price on those rides that require medical assistance . If I wanted a care taker job , I would go become one. Those care takers are angels on earth ? I'm not there yet


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Is the individual experiencing a medical emergency? Do they require monitoring or continuous care during the trip? If "no", not a "medical transport".


No, medical transport is not only emergency transport. Non-emergency medical transport for routine transportation of patients is also very common. They use vehicles like this:


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## Pentarou (Aug 15, 2019)

Uber driving is a commercial enterprise. It takes too long to load a disabled passenger so i didnt elect to do uber assist. Theres no extra payment for uber assist and loading and unloading takes longer. There are maxi cabs for these people.

I drive a sedan.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I think that non-emergency medical transport would have suited this patient perfectly with wheelchair access and rubber flooring


Okay. I did both transport and 911 as a paramedic for a decade.

Wheelchair access = wheelchair van. If for whatever reason the wheelchair cannot collapse, sure, that's a good option. But way more expensive.

Ambulance for something like this? Completely unnecessary. That would involve placing the individual on the stretcher and at least monitoring vital signs. Totally unnecessary for a trip from A to B.

There are no rubber floors!! ?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

O-Side Uber said:


> I also accommodate those disabled passengers, but there's a point where I get annoyed that we are having to handle more tasks than we are being paid for. I do appreciate when these folks tip , and occasionally they do. If it's their account they may tip. The insurance company pick ups never tip and those calls take up time . I'm not trying to be heartless. I am totally fine doing this once in a while . But if the insurance companies continue to abuse the service , U/L will have to raise the price on those rides that require medical assistance . If I wanted a care taker job , I would go become one. Those care takers are angels on earth ? I'm not there yet


I also do Lyft patient transport. Around here they can be good long rides into main hospitals which are in the busy ride areas.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, medical transport is not only EMT. Non-emergency transport for routine transportation of patients is also very common. They use vehicles like this:


By the way, I think you mean "EMS" - as in Emergency Medical Services, which also covers medical transportation. "EMT" is the abbreviation for Emergency Medical Technician, the lowest training level of provider in EMS (most places) and is not the equivalent of "paramedic".


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> There are no rubber floors!! ?


After having WeatherTech floor mats for a long time now. I don't understand why we (automakers) are even putting carpet in cars at all!!! Just put a hard rubber down there or something that could look similarly nice. Makes keeping the ride clean so much easier than stupid carpet in a car.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

DriverMark said:


> After having WeatherTech floor mats for a long time now. I don't understand why we (automakers) are even putting carpet in cars at all!!! Just put a hard rubber down there or something that could look similarly nice. Makes keeping the ride clean so much easier than stupid carpet in a car.


Same thing for smartphones. Why make phones with a glass back that you have to cover up with a plastic/rubber cover to protect it.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

DriverMark said:


> After having WeatherTech floor mats for a long time now. I don't understand why we (automakers) are even putting carpet in cars at all!!! Just put a hard rubber down there or something that could look similarly nice. Makes keeping the ride clean so much easier than stupid carpet in a car.


Aesthetics, comfort, and cost. I believe they're available as an option.

Ambulances almost always have hard floors with aggressive texture patterns to reduce slipping. Makes cleaning difficult.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> There are no rubber floors!! ?


If I ran a non-emergency medical patient transport service you can betcha bottom dollar that rubber/impermeable flooring for my vans would be the first thing I bought.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Not sure what Trump has to do with taking incontinent pax, but he is a topic for discussion that holds no interest for me.


That was supposed to be a 2nd comment, but this message board groups posts together if no one else has yet commented .

And not even really "Trump" specific. Just random musings during this election cycle where everyone wants things to be "better". Or change for the better of all. Or whatever it is people want, or maybe happy with. How many people beat the drum for the "betterment of society", but then drive by an obvious handicapped person and shuffle them. Or have the chance to help an elderly person, but out of fear of "what might happen". Just random thoughts.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> If I ran a non-emergency medical patient transport service you can betcha bottom dollar that rubber/impermeable flooring for my vans would be the first thing I bought.


Wheelchair van does not equal "medical patient transport". That would fall under non-medical.

Typical flooring in an ambulance (not a wheelchair van).


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Wheelchair van does not equal "medical patient transport". That would fall under non-medical.


Depends. If I run a van service taking medical patients to medical appointments, then I think it's fair to say that I'm using medical transport vans in my medical transport business.

If I loan the vans to my brother on the weekends, who fills them with fruit and veg to deliver, the vans would then become fruit and veg delivery vans.

This is getting a bit philosophical. If I see a big flat rock in a field, it's a rock. I could lay out a tablecloth over it and put a picnic spread on it, and put chairs around it then it becomes a table. Or maybe it isn't a table. Maybe it's just a rock. When does something become something else? Does it depend on what the thing is, or what we use it for? All very philosophical.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Aesthetics, comfort, and cost. I believe they're available as an option.
> 
> Ambulances almost always have hard floors with aggressive texture patterns to reduce slipping. Makes cleaning difficult.


Does carpet make it more comfortable? When everyone puts a "floor mat" down anyway to protect the carpet? And you aren't walking or standing on it. People toss their flipflops off to rub their little toes on the nice auto carpet while being transported somewhere perhaps.

Cost - rubber costs more than carpet? Hell, bet you could use recycled tires. Make for a nice marketing line on the flyer.

Aesthetics.... maybe.... I'm more into practicality. Not sure it looks all that better since 80-90% of it will be covered with a floor mat anyway.

Probably more "that's just how we've been doing it forever". Change sometimes hard even if it might be for the better.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Depends. If I run a van service taking medical patients to medical appointments, then I think it's fair to say that I'm using medical transport vans in my medical transport business.
> 
> If I loan the vans to my brother on the weekends, who fills them with fruit and veg to deliver, the vans would then become fruit and veg delivery vans.
> 
> This is getting a bit philosophical. If I see a big flat rock in a field, it's a rock. I could lay out a tablecloth over it and put a picnic spread on it, and put chairs around it then it becomes a table. Or maybe it isn't a table. Maybe it's just a rock. When does something become something else? Does it depend on what the thing is, or what we use it for? All very philosophical.


Um no. Not philosophical. One requires the proper licensing, insurance, and staffing. The other does not. ?



DriverMark said:


> Does carpet make it more comfortable?  When everyone puts a "floor mat" down anyway to protect the carpet? And you aren't walking or standing on it. People toss their flipflops off to rub their little toes on the nice auto carpet while being transported somewhere perhaps.
> 
> Cost - rubber costs more than carpet? Hell, bet you could use recycled tires. Make for a nice marketing line on the flyer.
> 
> ...


My wife hated the way my WeatherTech mats felt, prefers carpeting. Cost? Compare carpet to custom all weather plastic / rubber mats. $30 vs $80+


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Um no. Not philosophical. One requires the proper licensing, insurance, and staffing. The other does not. ?
> 
> 
> My wife hated the way my WeatherTech mats felt, prefers carpeting. Cost? Compare carpet to custom all weather plastic / rubber mats. $30 vs $80+


Talking how much it would cost an automaker to put in rubber instead of carpet (or some alternative to carpet). I can't see it costing any more. Maybe though <shrug>.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

DriverMark said:


> Talking how much it would cost an automaker to put in rubber instead of carpet (or some alternative to carpet). I can't see it costing any more. Maybe though <shrug>.


Some do, however as an option not standard. And yes, there's an increased cost of manufacturing.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Benjamin M said:


> Um no. Not philosophical. One requires the proper licensing, insurance, and staffing. The other does not. ?


You might not remember when Uber first came out but I remember using it 6 yrs ago when an Uber driver can do the same thing a taxi driver does, all they needed was a drivers license and to sign up via the app.

They didn't need to go through the proper "licensing, insurance and staffing"

"New York - Taxi drivers must take a 6 hour defensive driving course and complete either a 24 or 80 hour taxi school course.[4] The longer course might well be worth it, as only 53% of test takers pass the license test.[5]
Chicago - You must attend a 3 week course at the Public Chauffeur Training Institute.[6]
San Francisco - You must attend an accredited taxi school and obtain a Taxi Training Certificate and Sensitivity Training Certificate.
Paris - You must have obtained a level 1 first aid certificate, or Diplôme PSC1 (prévention et secours civiques de niveau 1).[7]"

https://m.wikihow.com/Be-a-Taxi-Driver (Updated 03/2019)

Not to mention while there's a logical reason one has to have a certain process for this type of transportation and what's is used, the companies that manufacture those items are basically charging an arm and a leg for what really costs a finger. I had a client who worked for a large medical equipment devices company... she was tired of her in her words, mediocre cut that she went into business for herself. Started depositing low end five figure checks.

Just to sell those devices ??? and equipment (as a middle person, because she's made the contacts).

Hank med anyone.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Um no. Not philosophical. One requires the proper licensing, insurance, and staffing. The other does not. ?


No.... Lyft does transport of medical patients to and from medical facilities. They were not required to have additional licensing, insurance or staffing.

( ? )


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No.... Lyft does transport of medical patients to and from medical facilities. They were not required to have additional licensing, insurance or staffing.
> 
> ( ? )


Oh my God. No, that's not "medical transport". As I have already explained.

This is exhausting. I'm going out driving. ?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Oh my God. No, that's not "medical transport". As I have already explained.
> 
> This is exhausting. I'm going out driving. ?


Hmmm..... here's just one of the thousands of non-emergency medical transportation companies:

http://www.serramedicaltransportation.com
They call themselves Serra Medical Transportation. They drive around and take medical patients to medical appointments. I guess we should phone them (and all the other companies like them) up and tell them that they are not medical transportation and have chosen the wrong names for their businesses?

(? )


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Is the individual experiencing a medical emergency? Do they require monitoring or continuous care during the trip? If "no", not a "medical transport".
> 
> Some hospitals seem to be ordering or helping order U/L for patients going home. I think that's fantastic! Far less expensive than an unnecessary ambulance ride and takes the strain off of that system.





Benjamin M said:


> Oh my God. No, that's not "medical transport". As I have already explained.
> 
> This is exhausting. I'm going out driving. ?


But what about non-emergency medical transport? What would count as that?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No.... Lyft does transport of medical patients to and from medical facilities. They were not required to have additional licensing, insurance or staffing.
> 
> ( ? )


But only patients that don't need actual medical (trained) transport.

There's a difference.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> But only patients that don't need actual medical (trained) transport.
> 
> There's a difference.


Obviously.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> But what about non-emergency medical transport? What would count as that?


"Non-emergency medical transport" basically means "medical transport", just not an ambulance dispatched through the 911 system.

It breaks down like this-


911 / "Emergency" Medical Services - either a Basic or Advanced Life Support ambulance, fire truck, or"Quick Response Vehicle" - the last two providing care on scene or throughout the transport in the ambulance.
Medical Transport, Advanced Life Support or Critical Care - provides essential the same minimal level of care as the Intensive or Critical Care Unit. Patients may be on multiple IV drugs, on a ventilator, or require other specialized equipment. Continued care during the trip from A to B is required. Care is provided by a Paramedic at minimum but may also be provided by a nurse or physician.
Medical Transport, Basic Life Support - caee is provided by an EMT. The patient does not require any advanced intervention, just routine vitals taken occasionally. Often this level of care is given to individuals that cannot practically travel outside of an ambulance. Examples being a patient with dementia returning to a nursing home (without any other forms of transportation available, such as family), someone going to or from dialysis with requirements that make driving in a car difficult (paralysis, for example), etc.
Wheelchair vans are often operated by individuals with only CPR training but that is not necessarily required. No care or monitoring is provided, it's simply a wheelchair accessible vehicle. "Medical transport" companies often operate these, ours did, but they are not considered "medical transportation" in the clinical sense.
Taxis and RS - there is no "medical necessity" (an insurance requirement) to warrant any medical or specialized transportation. The passenger are just like any other, apart from possibly having visible disabilities.

Source - I did this shit for a long time, working for a medical transport company (911 and "routine" ALS transport) ?


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Examples being a patient with dementia returning to a nursing home (without any other forms of transportation available, such as family)


That did get put on me, not long ago. I thought I told you about it? The old woman I took from MCV to Bon Air. When we got to her house she insisted she didn't live there. No one told me she had dementia until I was calling her daughter (who worked at MCV and was the account holder) for the third time and finally this woman's grandson comes out of the house to get her out of my car.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> That did get put on me, not long ago. I thought I told you about it? The old woman I took from MCV to Bon Air. When we got to her house she insisted she didn't live there. No one told me she had dementia until I was calling her daughter (who worked at MCV and was the account holder) for the third time and finally this woman's grandson comes out of the house to get her out of my car.


Yep I remember that one. Likely a paperwork SNAFU, lack of insurance, or poor communication. Some slip by. Not surprised it was MCV.

Still, that trip was not "medical transport" - however, definitely a liability concern because she was alone.

That's typically a BLS transport.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

In Uber's _FINE PRINT _They tell Drivers how to handle (correctly) a passenger who has a wheelchair or whatever special needs equipment, that will not fit into Driver's car. Have passenger Cancel and help passenger with how to order either a WAV or Assist or XL vehicle. And _Wait with passenger until that new Driver and vehicle shows up. _Don't do this, and you risk Deactivation. This is just like Service Animal pickups. One wrong step and you're Deactivated. Careful everyone.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I completely understand and can certainly sympathize where this passenger is coming from.
> 
> But it's a liability, even if he can get in or out of the vehicle himself without assistance.
> 
> ...


I've driven taxis and now Uber for total of about 20 years, and NEVER, not even once, had a problem with wheelchair riders.

Your fear, simply put, is unfounded.



Lissetti said:


> I once had to refuse a lady (middle aged, very heavy set) who ordered a ride with her Rascal Scooter.
> 
> View attachment 344064
> 
> ...


If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, recommend they select a larger car. But, for a sedan, such as a Camry, the chair will easily fit into the trunk (assuming it can be easily folded, as most chairs can ). I have the 2018 prius hybrid, and I believe I was able to put a foldable wheelchair ( the newer lighter one ) in the back, with the seats laid down and the rider sits in the shotgun seat.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Just checked, and guess what? Both WAV & Assist are "Available" in Concord, CA. Are there actual cars signed up for it? Hmmm...


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

UberLaLa said:


> In Uber's _FINE PRINT _They tell Drivers how to handle (correctly) a passenger who has a wheelchair or whatever special needs equipment, that will not fit into Driver's car. Have passenger Cancel and help passenger with how to order either a WAV or Assist or XL vehicle. And _Wait with passenger until that new Driver and vehicle shows up. _Don't do this, and you risk Deactivation. This is just like Service Animal pickups. One wrong step and you're Deactivated. Careful everyone.
> 
> View attachment 345516


Phew! It's a good thing I'm Uber's customer and they're just my agent and not my employer who can tell me what to do or threaten me with being fired or anything.



Oscar Levant said:


> If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, recommend they select a larger car. But, for a sedan, such as a Camry, the chair will easily fit into the trunk.
> 
> I have the 2018 prius hybrid, and I believe I was able to put a foldable wheelchair ( the newer lighter one ) in the back


- "Sorry, your wheelchair will not fit in the trunk. This car is a Camry Hybrid, which features less trunk space due to the hybrid battery"
- "But my wheelchair always fits in a Prius"
- "Then you need a driver who is driving a Prius"
-o:


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## YouBeer (May 10, 2017)

Lissetti said:


> CONCORD, Calif. (KGO) -- On-demand ridesharing has become the new normal way to get around -- but not for everyone. Disability advocates say Uber and Lyft have left millions of passengers in the dust -- without equal access to rides.
> 
> View attachment 344035
> 
> ...


Sorry, but its not our job.

There are Medicaid, access a rides.
If something happens with a person in a wheel chair its on us as drivers.
Call the driver what you will, but the driver was protecting him/her self.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Lissetti said:


> CONCORD, Calif. (KGO) -- On-demand ridesharing has become the new normal way to get around -- but not for everyone. Disability advocates say Uber and Lyft have left millions of passengers in the dust -- without equal access to rides.
> 
> View attachment 344035
> 
> ...


How come people with fake service dogs can get you fired, but if a person in a wheelchair is discriminated against it's fine by Uber?



YouBeer said:


> Sorry, but its not our job.
> 
> There are Medicaid, access a rides.
> If something happens with a person in a wheel chair its on us as drivers.
> Call the driver what you will, but the driver was protecting him/her self.


Wrong not everyone in a wheelchair qualifies for Medicaid, it's for only very low income below the federal poverty level.

Now I do agree the person should be able to get themselves into the car, and as long as they can you should be obligated to do the ride or be fired.

I had to do one wheelchair ride and I was driving a tiny hatchback then and I had to fold down the bigger seat, it was an old man in a wheelchair with a fake leg who was drunk and he had his 20's year old son to help him. The ride sucked but we were able to literally squeeze the father in the back with the wheelchair next to him and the kid squeezed in the front with the chair pulled all the way forward, and to make matters worse the app failed during the ride and I only got paid $2.35 and had to call back to get the full $5 fare and they didn't even hand me $1 tip and it took a long time to get everything in and out.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Driver bungled this. Should not have even slowed down let alone stop and argue with pax. Wheelchairs need exceptional treatment that is not covered at our pay scale. Just say "no".


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

YouBeer said:


> Sorry, but its not our job.
> 
> There are Medicaid, access a rides.
> If something happens with a person in a wheel chair its on us as drivers.
> Call the driver what you will, but the driver was protecting him/her self.


I drove a taxi for 15 years, off and on and Uber for 5, never a mishap with people in chairs. Your argument insofar as that particular issue is, well, not a very good one. You could make the same argument for elderly people who are not in wheel chairs, who might need some help getting into the car. As a driver, I would extend my hand to the elderly, all the time, to help them climb out of the seat, and these are not people in wheel chairs, so, with your logic, I shouldn't do this, I should be worried about lawyers ruining the day in the remote event they fell? I suppose you are not obligated to "touch someone" but you really sound like you are paranoid.


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## Driver Cat (Aug 16, 2019)

During my short stint driving day time hours (now only do nights) I got into a streak were I picked up multiple pax with mobility devices back to back on the same day. If they can be reasonably accommodated I see no issue with it. However, I do take offense with the time and effort it takes to load/unload wheelchairs if pax will only be going short distances and *do not tip* after one bothers doing all that for them - meaning >$3 rides.

Do I think drivers are getting ripped off here? Absolutely. There's dedicated services specifically for non-ambulatory transport that charge a premium yet we are barely getting compensated for the cost of gas for doing the same. Best to avoid areas filled with medical plazas during normal business hours if you get grief transporting the 'VIP pax'. As for the drivers that keep on driving by the pax and cancel... you're only one _phone call by pax_ away from being permanently deactivated.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Driver Cat said:


> As for the drivers that keep on driving by the pax and cancel... you're only one _phone call by pax_ away from being permanently deactivated.


Don't believe this to be true.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Pax Collector said:


> I've always done my best to accommodate disabled riders by opening doors, folding wheelchairs and putting it in my trunk and even push them if need be. No one knows what will happen to me in the future and I'd want someone to do the same for me if I can't make use of my legs anymore. The driver is a dirtbag.


I agree, treat others like you want to be treated.


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## uber_from_the north (Dec 19, 2017)

Did had a pax with hemiplegia with canes. Took him and even requested me if I can pull in the driveway.

Not a biggie even if he requested extra still gave him 5 stars.

Not easy having this condition.


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