# How is the Prius on snow and ice ?



## Lancaster York (May 21, 2017)

Okay, newbie here, I just quit my day job and cashed in my 401K to drive for Uber. 

Just kidding. 

But seriously, I need to replace a worn out and tired old 82 Volvo, and Toyota is offering 0 percent financing right now, it's really tempting to take advantage of this.

But I have been perusing these boards for a while now, and I've come to the conclusion that if I'm going to drive for Uber or Lyft, it's going to be in a used Prius or Camry with about 100K on the clock for less than 10 grand.

Those are my parameters.

I've been researching the car, talking to Prius owners, and generally trying to convince myself that I could live with this car. I commute about 30 miles a day for my day job so that's an easy one, but here's the deal.

This is Anchorage, AK. where we have the shittiest roads on the planet. Not only that, winter driving conditions can be very challenging here. I've driven a variety of cars in these conditions, and the car that I hated the most was an 2010 Acura TSX, absolutely the worst handling car on snow and ice that I've ever driven. It was the damn traction control that I didn't like, and I moved on from that car after one season of winter driving. 

So now I've heard a horror story or two about how these Prius handle in the snow and ice. Any feedback or real world experience would be greatly helpful in helping me make this decision. Presuming that I will be running studded winter tires, is this something that I need to be concerned about ? I was looking at the procedure to turn the ESC off on the Prius, and it looks rather clunky. 

So, any thoughts, tips and inside info is greatly appreciated !

Thanks in advance.


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## Toyota Guy (May 18, 2016)

I sold Toyotas for several years and the single biggest complaint I heard about them was snow driving. The OEM tires are "Low Rolling Resistance" which offer better mileage but hinder traction. If I were you in Alaska, I'd put snow tires on all four tires during the season. You'll lose mileage but drive much more safely. Consumer Reports rated the Prius as the most reliable car sold in this country in 2015. Any Toyota will be in the most reliable segments.


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## Lancaster York (May 21, 2017)

Yeah, it's pretty much a given that I'll run studded winter tires, I do that anyway with all of my vehicles. I did talk to a taxi driver who is running a Prius, he loves it, runs all season tires and said that he had no problems. In fact, just about every person I've talked to about their Prius, love them !

Thanks for your reply !


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Lancaster York said:


> Okay, newbie here, I just quit my day job and cashed in my 401K to drive for Uber.
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> ...


There's no Uber in anchorage.

IF your roads are ACTUALLY bad and you really DO encounter lots of snow and ice, the cars to consider:

F150 FX4
Expedition/Navigator
X5
Gelandewagen
Land Cruiser

Dedicated winter tire:
Nokian Hakkapellitta (sp?)

Crap roads and muck ready everyday tires:
BFG A/T KO2


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## Lancaster York (May 21, 2017)

Adieu said:


> There's no Uber in anchorage.
> 
> IF your roads are ACTUALLY bad and you really DO encounter lots of snow and ice, the cars to consider:
> 
> ...


Actually, it's coming in June, the State Legislature just cleared the bill allowing it, now the Muni has to give final blessing. I'm still waiting to hear what the details will be.

So, I've been driving on these roads for over 30 years, so I have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. I'm specifically looking for input regarding how others have fared driving a Prius in extreme winter conditions. Subaru's are probably the most popular car on the road here, followed by a legion of SUV's and pick up trucks. Nokian's are good, Michelin X-Ice, Hankook, they all make good tires and I've run them all on various cars that I've had. Currently I'm driving a 2004 Volvo XC70 which is hands down the best car I've ever had for winter driving. Obviously it's too old for this purpose. And even with AWD I still run studs all around, it just gives you that extra piece of mind when you need it. The Volvo will literally keep itself on the road, it drives like nothing else I've ever driven.

As far as your suggestions, those are all very nice vehicles, ridiculously expensive to insure and maintain, if anything other than a Toyota, I'd probably look at another XC70.

Thanks for your input.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Not necessarily

2004 is quite Uber able in California

Your main target audience is tourists right? Small uberX hybrids are useless.

Find out if they're coming out with XL and/or Select in your area.

Hybrids on UberX = only somewhat viable in dense urban conditions



Lancaster York said:


> Actually, it's coming in June, the State Legislature just cleared the bill allowing it, now the Muni has to give final blessing. I'm still waiting to hear what the details will be.
> 
> So, I've been driving on these roads for over 30 years, so I have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. I'm specifically looking for input regarding how others have fared driving a Prius in extreme winter conditions. Subaru's are probably the most popular car on the road here, followed by a legion of SUV's and pick up trucks. Nokian's are good, Michelin X-Ice, Hankook, they all make good tires and I've run them all on various cars that I've had. Currently I'm driving a 2004 Volvo XC70 which is hands down the best car I've ever had for winter driving. Obviously it's too old for this purpose. And even with AWD I still run studs all around, it just gives you that extra piece of mind when you need it. The Volvo will literally keep itself on the road, it drives like nothing else I've ever driven.
> 
> ...


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## Lancaster York (May 21, 2017)

Adieu said:


> Not necessarily
> 
> 2004 is quite Uber able in California
> 
> ...


So, yeah my main target is going to be tourists, I practically live next to the airport, so I'm in a good location to do this. The bill that the Alaska Legislature passed says that a vehicle can't be more than 12 years old.

29 (b) A motor vehicle that is used by a transportation network company driver 
30 for transportation network company purposes may not be more than 12 years of age.

I can't provide the link, but here's the name of the bill.

*CSHB 132(L&C): "An Act relating to transportation network companies and transportation network company drivers; and providing for an effective date."*

So, bummer there. otherwise the XC70 would be the one. There are a ton of taxi's using Prius's, so there must be something to that. I also looked at the video on how to maintain the battery, and it appears to be a relatively simple task, nothing that I can't handle. Certainly easier than doing a ******.

The Municipality of Anchorage will likely have their own set of rules too, and I need find out where that is, I'm not sure where they're at in the process.

Now, FWD and/or AWD are certainly advantageous in the conditions that we have here, which is seasonal. I'd heard some stories about the Prius and their handling, I don't know if it was the person didn't know how to drive in winter conditions, didn't have the right tires, or what.

So, this is all good, I'm not sold on a Prius, it certainly doesn't sound very exciting to drive, but I like the idea of not paying a lot of money for gas. And like I said, I already drive 30 miles roundtrip to work each day, so there's that. I'm also looking at the CT200H, and I know that I'd just be throwing money away, but I'll likely only be doing this part time to start.

The Highlander is what comes to the top of my list as do the Accord and Camry hybrids.

I'm curious though, what's the advantage of doing XL or Select ? I know higher fares, but what's the strategy there ? Everything I'm reading says that I should keep my expenses to an absolute minimum.

Thanks for the tips !


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Lancaster York said:


> So, yeah my main target is going to be tourists, I practically live next to the airport, so I'm in a good location to do this. The bill that the Alaska Legislature passed says that a vehicle can't be more than 12 years old.
> 
> 29 (b) A motor vehicle that is used by a transportation network company driver
> 30 for transportation network company purposes may not be more than 12 years of age.
> ...


Minimizing expenses on tiny fares is useless. Only CONTROLLING expenses, which usually means NO SURGE NO RIDE on uberx.

Here in SoCal, for example, UberX pays a measly 13 CENTS per mile over IRS vehicle costs deductions.... yeah hopefully your costs are a BIT better, but still... NO SURGE NO PROFIT.

UberX with low/no surge only really ever makes any amount of money at all if it's doing 75 mph to a distant destination that will have high surge and/or return trips readily available right next to dropoff.

ANY dead miles and/or waits at destination, and uberx trips without surge become lossy by default.

XL, which pays just short of double, and Select, just short of triple.... they provide options.

Remember that if uberx vehicle costs make ~1/2 of the fares, even if they're higher (NOT necessarily), XL vehicle costs will make just 1/3. Or less.

Select? 1/4 or less. Alas, Select trips tend to be few and far between....

Also, don't forget that big old trucks tend to be rather rugged, easy to service, have cheap readily available tires and wheels that last forever, etc...

PS *if* you have a good fat chunk of change like for a newer prius, there ARE also hybrid versions of all fullsize GM SUVs available.... if those can get Select or XL in your market, that might be kinda cool.

With Prius....if it costs more than $4k, it's a BAD idea


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## Lancaster York (May 21, 2017)

Adieu said:


> Minimizing expenses on tiny fares is useless. Only CONTROLLING expenses, which usually means NO SURGE NO RIDE on uberx.
> 
> Here in SoCal, for example, UberX pays a measly 13 CENTS per mile over IRS vehicle costs deductions.... yeah hopefully your costs are a BIT better, but still... NO SURGE NO PROFIT.
> 
> ...





Adieu said:


> Minimizing expenses on tiny fares is useless. Only CONTROLLING expenses, which usually means NO SURGE NO RIDE on uberx.
> 
> Here in SoCal, for example, UberX pays a measly 13 CENTS per mile over IRS vehicle costs deductions.... yeah hopefully your costs are a BIT better, but still... NO SURGE NO PROFIT.
> 
> ...


Okay, those are good things to ponder, for sure. To be honest, I'm not crazy about the Prius, I keep reading all of these great things about them, so I'm intrigued, but far from sold. I've been looking at everything, even a Lincoln hybrid, mebe a 2011 vintage Crown Vic with around 200K on the clock. There's a reason Ford makes a lot of F-150's, so I'm with you there, Detroit makes some good products that will give you a lifetime of service if you maintain them properly. This place is tough on cars, for some reason Subaru's are the car of choice here, I find them to be cheap and plastic-y, and prone to head gasket failures.

I don't like small cars to begin with either, but I do like sporty, well appointed vehicles . On these roads you want a lot of metal around you and something that's going to hold up to the ruts, potholes, moose and other hazards of the road. That's why I drive Volvos, those suckers are built like tanks.

Unfortunately my 82 sedan with only 84K miles needs a huge infusion of cash to keep it roadworthy, and I just don't want to go down that road anymore. It's been a great daily driver, but now it's time to give it a rest and let someone else pour their hard earned cash into it.

It will also be interesting to see how the Anchorage market shakes out, people have been clamoring for Uber and Lyft for quite a while now, the state Legislature and the Anchorage muni were finally able to break the grip that the taxi cartels have, so that's a good thing, I think. The airport will be the biggest generator of traffic as it has planes coming and going at all hours of the day, and my proximity to the airport puts me in a good spot. The downside is that the airport is only a couple of miles from downtown, so not exactly a long trip, 2-3 miles apx. The Hillside and Eagle River are the more affluent and currently under-served neighborhoods, I talked with one taxi driver who already has his strategy laid out, and it included those areas.

Obviously there's still a lot for me to learn about this whole process, thanks for your input, I certainly do appreciate it. I'm certainly not pulling the trigger on anything until Uber publishes its standards.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Uber usually starts out in a new market with rates on the highe(er) side and promotions to get drivers.

The next step months/a year down the line will be multiple fare reductions while telling (PR Spining) to drivers that lower fares meanings higher earnings. Gross earnings up but net earnings flat or down.

All I'm saying is when Uber Rates come out, you need to consider that these rates will be short-term and rate cuts will come sooner than later, and in multiples. This has happened in every market worldwide.

I would purchase the vehicle you want and makes sense for your daily commute to your current fulltime job.

Consider how this will work "also" for Uber but who knows if you will continue with Uber or not.

The best vehicle to start out with is the current used one you have to get experience and see how you like it... or not.

Also, if you normally just drive yourself, one person, then consider that with Uber you will always have two or more, and if Airport Pickups/Drop offs, then luggage weight in that Uber Vehicle. How will that affect handling and wear and tear in your market/Alaska? More weight on my Prius suspension in Los Angeles but I don't drive roads like yours in weather like yours.

Just remember that Uber is a Transportation Gig which means you calculate your Per Mile Net not what Uber transfers into your bank account less gas.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on and how it goes.


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## tryingforthat5star (Mar 12, 2017)

Snow tires (General Altimax Artic if you want my experience) and call it a day. It will go through snow until it can't push it anymore with the front bumper or get's stuck in to deep of snow under the belly and suspension.


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## Andretti (Jan 14, 2017)

Lancaster York said:


> Actually, it's coming in June, the State Legislature just cleared the bill allowing it, now the Muni has to give final blessing. I'm still waiting to hear what the details will be.
> 
> So, I've been driving on these roads for over 30 years, so I have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. I'm specifically looking for input regarding how others have fared driving a Prius in extreme winter conditions. Subaru's are probably the most popular car on the road here, followed by a legion of SUV's and pick up trucks. Nokian's are good, Michelin X-Ice, Hankook, they all make good tires and I've run them all on various cars that I've had. *Currently I'm driving a 2004 Volvo XC70 which is hands down the best car I've ever had for winter driving. Obviously it's too old for this purpose. * And even with AWD I still run studs all around, it just gives you that extra piece of mind when you need it. The Volvo will literally keep itself on the road, it drives like nothing else I've ever driven.
> 
> ...


What makes you state the bolded?

In my city they go down to 2003.

If it's reliable and halfway clean, and reasonable on gas, your current vehicle it may indeed work well. Either way, using it would be a great way to get your feet wet without any expenses. Low expenses is the name of the game here, and Uber has a high turn-over attrition rate for good reasons: It can suck and not be very profitable.

If you're buying the new car in large part due to Uber, I'd quell that notion immediately until you give it a try and see how it works out!



tryingforthat5star said:


> *Snow tires (General Altimax Artic if you want my experience) and call it a day. *It will go through snow until it can't push it anymore with the front bumper or get's stuck in to deep of snow under the belly and suspension.


These are pretty damn good snows for a bargain price. Not perfect in that they suck a bit more at high speed than some other snows, but they are cheap and go through snow with the best! Especially deep snow! Apparently they are rebranded Gislaved, which would explain their abilities.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Don't buy a new prius. You can pick up a 3 - 5 yrs old one for less than half msrp.


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