# Waymo Collision Illustrates Why Society Might Eventually Ban Human Driving



## Football Hooligan (Nov 6, 2018)

Forbes, Nov 7, 2018
By David Silver

On October 19, a Waymo Pacifica struck and injured a motorcyclist in California. As is often the case, the collision was caused by a human - in this instance, the safety driver in the Waymo vehicle. In an unusual twist, however, Waymo CEO John Krafcik revealed that if the safety operator had not taken control of the autonomous minivan, then the self-driving software would have avoided a collision.

"Our simulation shows the self-driving system would have responded to the passenger car by reducing our vehicle's speed, and nudging slightly in our own lane, avoiding a collision."

The story of the collision is recounted in the mandatory collision report Waymo filed with the California DMV:

Waymo Autonomous Vehicle ("WaymoAV") was traveling at approximately 21 MPH westbound in Lane 2 of El Camino Real in Mountain View in self-driving mode. A passenger vehicle in Lane 1, to the left of the Waymo AV, began to change lanes into Lane2 to avoid a box truck blocking two lanes of traffic, Waymo's test driver took manual control of the AV out of an abundance of caution, disengaged from self-driving mode, and began changing lanes into Lane 3. A motorcycle, traveling at approximately 28 MPH behind the Waymo AV, had just entered Lane 3 to overtake the Waymo AV on its right. The Waymo AV and motorcycle collided at the Waymo AV's right rear corner. The motorcyclist reported injuries and was transported to the hospital for treatment. The Waymo AV sustained minor damage to the rear bumper.​Consider the statement that, "Waymo's test driver took manual control of the AV out of an abundance of caution". Now juxtapose this with Krafcik's blog post, which states, "our test driver reacted quickly to avoid what he thought would be a collision, but his response contributed to another."

Waymo's safety operator was paying attention and took action to avoid a collision, but in doing so, he did more harm than good. According to Waymo, if the safety operator had just calmly let the self-driving system navigate the situation, then the motorcyclist would not have been struck and sent to the hospital.

Waymo's self-driving system, unlike the human safety operator, has 360-degree perception. It's not yet always safer than a human driver, but it was in this case. Eventually, the computer will perform better in most cases. One-day, self-driving systems might be safer than a human driver in nearly all cases.

At that point, society will have to ask itself whether the benefit of a steering wheel will outweigh the danger it would cause to everyone else on the road.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Football Hooligan said:


> Forbes, Nov 7, 2018
> By David Silver
> 
> On October 19, a Waymo Pacifica struck and injured a motorcyclist in California. As is often the case, the collision was caused by a human - in this instance, the safety driver in the Waymo vehicle. In an unusual twist, however, Waymo CEO John Krafcik revealed that if the safety operator had not taken control of the autonomous minivan, then the self-driving software would have avoided a collision.
> ...


WHAT THE HELL WAS THE WAYMO VEHICLE DOING 21 M.P.H. DOING IN ANY LANE BUT THE FAR RIGHT SLOW LANE !!!!

The waymo vehicle caused the motorcycle to have to pass on the Right y not FOLLOWING THE RULES OF THE ROAD !

Ban these DEATH TRAPS FROM OUR HIGHWAYS !



Football Hooligan said:


> Forbes, Nov 7, 2018
> By David Silver
> 
> On October 19, a Waymo Pacifica struck and injured a motorcyclist in California. As is often the case, the collision was caused by a human - in this instance, the safety driver in the Waymo vehicle. In an unusual twist, however, Waymo CEO John Krafcik revealed that if the safety operator had not taken control of the autonomous minivan, then the self-driving software would have avoided a collision.
> ...


WHAT THE HELL WAS THE WAYMO VEHICLE DOING 21 M.P.H. DOING IN ANY LANE BUT THE FAR RIGHT SLOW LANE !!!!

The waymo vehicle cau
sed the motorcycle to have to pass on the Right y not FOLLOWING THE RULES OF THE ROAD !

Ban these DEATH TRAPS FROM OUR HIGHWAYS !


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Football Hooligan said:


> . It's not yet always safer than a human driver, but it was in this case.


Based on what ? What exactly are you basing that statement that the sdc was safer than the human even 'though you haven't seen the video ?



Football Hooligan said:


> One-day, self-driving systems might be safer than a human driver in nearly all cases.


lol What exactly are you basing that on ? There isn't even any evidence that the cars ever drive themselves let alone be better than a human brain.



Football Hooligan said:


> At that point, society will have to ask itself whether the benefit of a steering wheel will outweigh the danger it would cause to everyone else on the road.


lmao the only reason those sdc death traps don't have more accidents is because the human is in the car ready to bail it out...it's likely the human prevented the car from crashing into that car that was coming into its lane, preventing one accident while inadvertantly causing another. You don't know that without seeing the video.

And this assumes the cars even drive themselves "some" of the time. As I've stated, these cars always have the hands of a human on them driving them around. That's the only reason they don't have more deaths than they would have if the car drove itself all the time .


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## Football Hooligan (Nov 6, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Based on what ? What exactly are you basing that statement that the sdc was safer than the human even 'though you haven't seen the video ?
> 
> The author, David Silver, is quoting Waymo's CEO John Krafcick, who has seen the video and also seen the results from the simulations run on this trip.
> 
> "Our simulation shows the self-driving system would have responded to the passenger car by reducing our vehicle's speed, and nudging slightly in our own lane, avoiding a collision."


The author, David Silver, is quoting Waymo's CEO John Krafcick, who has seen the video and also seen the results from the simulations run on this trip.

"Our simulation shows the self-driving system would have responded to the passenger car by reducing our vehicle's speed, and nudging slightly in our own lane, avoiding a collision


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Football Hooligan said:


> "Our simulation shows the self-driving system would have responded to the passenger car by reducing our vehicle's speed, and nudging slightly in our own lane, avoiding a collision."


My simulation shows that the sdc would have hit both the car that came into their lane and the motorcycle so that means that clearly the human was better than the sdc here.

If you have any actual evidence to prove me wrong I'd love to see it.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> My simulation shows that the sdc would have hit both the car that came into their lane and the motorcycle so that means that clearly the human was better than the sdc here.
> 
> If you have any actual evidence to prove me wrong I'd love to see it.


You don't trust Waymo's billions of miles of simulation??!!


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## Football Hooligan (Nov 6, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> My simulation shows that the sdc would have hit both the car that came into their lane and the motorcycle so that means that clearly the human was better than the sdc here.
> 
> If you have any actual evidence to prove me wrong I'd love to see it.


Did you run your simulation on an Atari 2600? That could be the problem right there.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Football Hooligan said:


> Did you run your simulation on an Atari 2600? That could be the problem right there.


ya, I used the same simulator that your Waymo handlers did, tomato


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

It is truly sad how waymo is so quick to call human error . Had there been no testing on public roads there wouldn’t have been an accident . Truly sad how this company can’t even face reality.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Football Hooligan said:


> The author, David Silver, is quoting Waymo's CEO John Krafcick, who has seen the video and also seen the results from the simulations run on this trip.
> 
> "Our simulation shows the self-driving system would have responded to the passenger car by reducing our vehicle's speed, and nudging slightly in our own lane, avoiding a collision


" SIMULATIONS" say i should be a Millionaire



LuisEnrikee said:


> It is truly sad how waymo is so quick to call human error . Had there been no testing on public roads there wouldn't have been an accident . Truly sad how this company can't even face reality.


Waymo is human Error


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## Football Hooligan (Nov 6, 2018)

LuisEnrikee said:


> It is truly sad how waymo is so quick to call human error . Had there been no testing on public roads there wouldn't have been an accident . Truly sad how this company can't even face reality.


What's truly amazing is there's no guess work, because they have video evidence of every trip. They run simulations of the trip every time the safety driver takes control.


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## Football Hooligan (Nov 6, 2018)

*Daimler And Bosch Choose San Jose For Their Silicon Valley Robo-Taxi Service*

Forbes, Nov 8

Daimler and Bosch said in July that would launch their first automated ride-hailing pilot program somewhere in Silicon Valley in 2019. That somewhere has now been identified as San Jose where a small fleet of automated S-Class sedans will start carrying passengers in the second half of next year.

The two Stuttgart-based companies have been collaborators since the very earliest days of the auto industry. Over the past forty years, they have frequently partnered up to launch new active safety technologies including anti-lock brakes, traction control, stability control and adaptive cruise control. In April 2017, it was no surprise that they announced a collaboration to develop highly automated driving systems for urban mobility.

The automaker and the world's largest automotive supplier have had development efforts going on at two main locations, Sunnyvale, California where they each have R&D facilities and of course Stuttgart, Germany where both are headquartered. Bosch is also doing additional development work at its Plymouth, Michigan technical center.

Combined teams of engineers are developing the software and sensing packages for the automated driving systems. Daimler is handling vehicle integration while Bosch is producing the compute platform that will be used. For this highly automated system, the computer is based on the Nvidia Pegasus architecture, the most powerful such system yet announced with claimed performance of 320 trillion operations per second. Bosch is augmenting the four main Nvidia processors on Pegasus with added micro-controllers and processors including a system-on-a-chip of its own design to provide additional redundancy.

The first fruits of that collaborative effort will hit the streets of San Jose next year. The Mercedes-Benz S-class sedans will feature more than 40 sensors including lidar, radar, cameras and ultrasonic sensors.

Daimler Mobility Services is developing the ride-hailing app that will also be connected into other services such as the Car2go carsharing system and Moovel multi-modal platform. The region between San Jose and Santa Clara at the south end of San Francisco Bay and San Francisco itself at the north end of the peninsula has become increasingly congested over the past several decades as the tech industry has exploded.

San Jose has over one million residents, a number expected to grow another 40 percent in the next 20 years. Reducing the number of individually owned vehicles on the roads of the area will be crucial to maintaining something resembling a livable environment. Automated mobility services in combination with mass transit and micro-mobility are increasingly seen as the best path forward.

Waymo is planning to launch its commercial services in the Phoenix area before the end of this year and expand into California in 2019 while GM, Zoox and others are also expected to debut services in the area by 2020. In addition to operating its own services, Daimler also struck a deal with Uber in early 2017 that would enable the German company to deploy its automated vehicles on the largest ride-hailing platform when they are ready.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

goneubering said:


> You don't trust Waymo's billions of miles of simulation??!!


Only millions. Waymo actually need about 6 billion miles of stimulation to get any meaningful data to put up against the 5 trillion miles a year driven in the US per year. That 5 trillion shows a minor accident every 500,000 driven. Think current figures show self driving to be 33 times more likely.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> Only millions. Waymo actually need about 6 billion miles of stimulation to get any meaningful data to put up against the 5 trillion miles a year driven in the US per year. That 5 trillion shows a minor accident every 500,000 driven. Think current figures show self driving to be 33 times more likely.


Yup. Sdcs are highly dangerous


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

everythingsuber said:


> Only millions. Waymo actually need about 6 billion miles of stimulation to get any meaningful data to put up against the 5 trillion miles a year driven in the US per year. That 5 trillion shows a minor accident every 500,000 driven. Think current figures show self driving to be 33 times more likely.


umm no..

Taxis end up in a minor incident a lot more often than the average vehicle. They also drive a ton more of the most dangerous mile, IE the local parking lot and short trips.


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

Man.. new members love posting Waymo PR garbage


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

HotUberMess said:


> Man.. new members love posting Waymo PR garbage
> 
> View attachment 272589


No problems. It should be out there for discussion. Whoever puts it there


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

everythingsuber said:


> No problems. It should be out there for discussion. Whoever puts it there


Yeah well it's a bunch of new members with similar writing styles

.._just sayinnnnn _


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Football Hooligan said:


> Forbes, Nov 7, 2018
> By David Silver
> 
> On October 19, a Waymo Pacifica struck and injured a motorcyclist in California. As is often the case, the collision was caused by a human - in this instance, the safety driver in the Waymo vehicle. In an unusual twist, however, Waymo CEO John Krafcik revealed that if the safety operator had not taken control of the autonomous minivan, then the self-driving software would have avoided a collision.
> ...


All I concluded from this is that Waymo's test driver is an idiot. If you can't see a box truck blocking two travel lanes from at least a 1/2 mile away then you drive like the majority of U.S. drivers and only see the ass end of the vehicle in front of you. The Waymo test driver should have already had 3 possible scenarios worked out in his head before the situation arose. The test driver should have already known all the surrounding vehicles before hand. I wish that there was a video of the road situation and the drivers reaction.



Football Hooligan said:


> At that point, society will have to ask itself whether the benefit of a steering wheel will outweigh the danger it would cause to everyone else on the road.


Definitely depends whose hands are on that steering wheel. Just like a gun and just like a child. Just because you can become a parent doesn't mean that you'll be a good parent. Just because you can legally own a gun doesn't mean that you'll be a responsible gun owner and just because you're a licensed driver doesn't mean that you'll be a good driver. In fact, most drivers are clueless to their surroundings and only see the vehicle in front of them. I've always said that if a vehicle would drive off a cliff then you'll have a lot more taking that same plunge. The majority of U.S. driving is monkey see, monkey do (sorry Rakos, nothing personal).


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Football Hooligan said:


> *Daimler And Bosch Choose San Jose For Their Silicon Valley Robo-Taxi Service*
> 
> Forbes, Nov 8
> 
> ...


Right now I predict Daimler will regret any partnering with Uber.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Woulda shoulda coulda they have no way of knowing how the accident would have happened with the self driving car.

How did it work out when it killed the lady who was crossing the street.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

Lee239 said:


> Woulda shoulda coulda they have no way of knowing how the accident would have happened with the self driving car.
> 
> How did it work out when it killed the lady who was crossing the street.


They have every way of knowing. That's why they do the simulation.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

And to the person who claims more than 1 million die every year in auto accidents. 

The real number in the US is 40 thousand and twice as many people die of the flu each year than from car accidents.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Hey look the Tomato has a lot of accounts now


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Single Malt said:


> They have every way of knowing. That's why they do the simulation.


Hi greg! This is my favorite username of yours


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## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Football Hooligan said:


> Forbes, Nov 7, 2018
> By David Silver
> 
> On October 19, a Waymo Pacifica struck and injured a motorcyclist in California. As is often the case, the collision was caused by a human - in this instance, the safety driver in the Waymo vehicle. In an unusual twist, however, Waymo CEO John Krafcik revealed that if the safety operator had not taken control of the autonomous minivan, then the self-driving software would have avoided a collision.
> ...


There are times when the cars don't know what to do and they punt. How reliable is that going to be in the near term? How safe is that going to be? The stats say that, worldwide, there is 1 fatality per 100,000,000 miles driven. None of the SDC's are anywhere near that many miles and there have already been 3 deaths? The 1 in AZ and 2 in Teslas?

The banning of people from the roads for SDC's will not likely be in our lifetimes. SDC's are just technological masturbation at this point and ultimately a fad. If they gain any form of mass appeal it will be short lived. Google glasses anyone?


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