# Geico would cancel my insurance



## Roogy

Just started driving a little over a week ago. Have done about 15 trips. I was examing my insurance policy with Geico and in a section called "Important Notice" there was this statement: "There is no coverage under this policy for any motor vehicle that is operated, maintained or used as part of any personal vehicle sharing facilitated by any personal vehicle sharing program." 

So I called Geico and the rep said my policy is still good, but could be void if I continue to drive for Uber, and she recommended I hold off while their underwriters send me a questionnaire. 

I was only planning to drive maybe 5 hours a week so I'm going to stop for now. Commercial insurance doesn't make sense for my situation and I don't want to get voided over a $100-150 hr/week side job. 

Anyone else have Geico and dealt with this?


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## Uber Driver 007

I guess you can expect a notice of insurance cancellation. Their underwriters can't help you, Geico doesn't sell commercial auto insurance.


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## Roogy

That would be an extreme response from them. Seems a more appropriate response would be "your insurance is void if you drive for a rideshare at any point in the future". If that's the way they want to go.


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## LookyLou

Unfortunately Geico is one of if not the worst when it comes to this. Many get their questionnaire out of the blue when they have never mentioned ride sharing ot inquired about it. They are getting information on drivers from somewhere, but nobody knows where.

None of us want to give up any information about what we are doing voluntarily. We know we are in a very grey area on our insurance. But none of us wan't to lie and commit fraud if asked directly. The Geico questionnaire is exactly what non of us want to ever see. At that point we either have to commit insurance fraud or most likely be dropped by our insurance companies.


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## UberRey

Roogy said:


> "There is no coverage under this policy for any motor vehicle that is operated, maintained or used as part of any personal vehicle sharing facilitated by any personal vehicle sharing program."


You are not SHARING your vehicle at all. You are the only driver, and you're giving your pals a ride. Who cares if they chip in for gas?


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## UberRey

It's RIDEsharing, not VEHICLEsharing. I'd argue this in court any day of the week.


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## Roogy

Good point UberRey. I jumped to the conclusion that they were talking about ridesharing. And maybe they were but didn't word it as well as they should have and left a loophole.

Now I'm nervous they're going to cancel my policy, like the guy who first replied stated. Or that the questionnaire they send will implicitly say I have to desist ridesharing or my policy is null and void. In which case if I were to continue, and got into an accident thru personal use, they could dig into it and find out I was still driving and thus have basis to deny my claim.


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## floridog

UberRey said:


> It's RIDEsharing, not VEHICLEsharing. I'd argue this in court any day of the week.


And you would lose....miserably. Nobody is "ride sharing" They are transporting passengers for payment.

I pray to God you are not a lawyer because you are going to die a broke and lonely man.

What Uber does is illegal and we all know it!


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## LAuberX

I would throw out the survey if it comes, lose/lose situation.

Uber and Lyft violate every policy written by every company.

Fact.


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## Older Chauffeur

My auto policy (not Geico) seems to differentiate between ride sharing/shared expense carpooling and for hire driving for companies like Uber and Lyft. No coverage for driving for hire unless it is applied for and specifically described in the policy. I have not asked for any further explanation or interpretation, even though I do not currently, nor do I intend to use my personal vehicle to drive for Uber, Lyft, et al.
Your Geico contact mentioned sending you a questionnaire, but you probably answered similar questions on your original application regarding using your vehicle for business purposes. There are threads discussing the whole insurance issue here, some rather heated.
I agree with your decision to not put your personal insurance at risk. But I'm cautious by nature. OTOH, there are members here who maintain that Uber's insurance covers you adequately when you are actively engaged for them, and your personal policy isn't involved. If I were interested in being an Uber driver, I would have an attorney read both their policy and my personal coverage and advise me where I would stand in case of an accident while so engaged.


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## Elmoooy

LAuberX said:


> I would throw out the survey if it comes, lose/lose situation.
> 
> Uber and Lyft violate every policy written by every company.
> 
> Fact.


Sidecar too!


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## floridog

Older Chauffeur said:


> My auto policy (not Geico) seems to differentiate between ride sharing/shared expense carpooling and for hire driving for companies like Uber and Lyft. No coverage for driving for hire unless it is applied for and specifically described in the policy. I have not asked for any further explanation or interpretation, even though I do not currently, nor do I intend to use my personal vehicle to drive for Uber, Lyft, et al.
> Your Geico contact mentioned sending you a questionnaire, but you probably answered similar questions on your original application regarding using your vehicle for business purposes. There are threads discussing the whole insurance issue here, some rather heated.
> I agree with your decision to not put your personal insurance at risk. But I'm cautious by nature. OTOH, there are members here who maintain that Uber's insurance covers you adequately when you are actively engaged for them, and your personal policy isn't involved. If I were interested in being an Uber driver, I would have an attorney read both their policy and my personal coverage and advise me where I would stand in case of an accident while so engaged.


Uber absolutely positively does NOT cover an Uber driver or their vehicle. That is fact!!!!


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## Older Chauffeur

Then why the $ 1000.00 deductible mentioned in other threads?

http://blog.uber.com/uberXridesharinginsurance


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## grams777

I'm pretty sure vehicle sharing refers to services such as relay rides where you list your car for other to rent it out.

Uber would be some thing different related to livery, taxi, transporting passengers for compensation (except carpool), or vehicle for hire. It should be excluded in the policy too.


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## Sean O'Gorman

The language that the OP is citing is from an endorsement that ISO (the company that drafts the policy language used word for word by virtually every insurance company) issued about a year ago, and was designed specifically to reiterate the lack of coverage for people who put their cars up for rent on sites like relayrides.com. It's not really anything new, insurance doesn't cover losses that occur when you rent your personal vehicle out to strangers. It would be covered under the policy of the person doing the renting though.


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## UberBlackDriverLA

UberRey said:


> You are not SHARING your vehicle at all. You are the only driver, and you're giving your pals a ride. Who cares if they chip in for gas?


Except they are not your "pals," they are complete strangers. And they are chipping in for gas... And your minimum wage... And vehicle maintence... And vehicle depreciation... And billions of profit for Uber.


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## scrurbscrud

Roogy said:


> That would be an extreme response from them. Seems a more appropriate response would be "your insurance is void if you drive for a rideshare at any point in the future". If that's the way they want to go.


Good thing you checked, huh? I've noted here many times that Geico, State Farm, Progressive and Esurance all have the same RULE. We've also had drivers report that Liberty Mutual and other personal auto insurance companies have the same rule. If you drive ride share your personal insurance policy is [possibly] VOIDED by ride share activity.

Glad some have the common sense to check before something happens that can ruin their insurance rates for a good long time i.e. an unreported accident to their personal insurance company that only gets reported to their ride share insurance, or worse yet, a serious accident on their personal driving time where accident investigators discover they have a record in the national DOT database for their physical for ride share that is starting to be a requirement in some states. Pretty easy to find out, huh?

No, it probably doesn't make too much sense for part timers to incur the cost of legitmate insurance. You're just one of the brighter bulbs in the chandelier.

So, CONGRATS on keeping yourself out of potential trouble!


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## scrurbscrud

Older Chauffeur said:


> My auto policy (not Geico) seems to differentiate between ride sharing/shared expense carpooling and for hire driving for companies like Uber and Lyft. No coverage for driving for hire unless it is applied for and specifically described in the policy. I have not asked for any further explanation or interpretation, even though I do not currently, nor do I intend to use my personal vehicle to drive for Uber, Lyft, et al.
> Your Geico contact mentioned sending you a questionnaire, but you probably answered similar questions on your original application regarding using your vehicle for business purposes. There are threads discussing the whole insurance issue here, some rather heated.
> I agree with your decision to not put your personal insurance at risk. But I'm cautious by nature. OTOH, there are members here who maintain that Uber's insurance covers you adequately when you are actively engaged for them, and your personal policy isn't involved. If I were interested in being an Uber driver, I would have an attorney read both their policy and my personal coverage and advise me where I would stand in case of an accident while so engaged.


I might note that it is also a blatant insurance foul to have an accident only reported to Uber and not to the drivers personal auto insurance company. Uber also requires the drivers personal auto company to be notified FIRST in the case of any app time [with no pax] accident *so they are going to find out anyway.*

Also any accidents reported only to Uber WILL show up as an accident in the insurance company scans at renewal time whether they were reported to them or not, so there is no hiding accidents as an angle to dodge having the personal auto insurance company find out.


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## scrurbscrud

UberRey said:


> It's RIDEsharing, not VEHICLEsharing. I'd argue this in court any day of the week.


It doesn't matter what Uber calls it. It only matters what the personal insurance company calls it and they call it commercial driving for hire activity.

Until Uber is able to shove THEIR definition down the personal auto insurance companies throats {which AIN'T gonna happen!} it's LIVERY in the eyes of the personal auto insurance companies, and therefore a higher premium will be paid to obtain suitable coverage.

I'd expect that if personal auto insurance companies even want this type of insurance available, they'll have a HIGHER PRICED PACKAGE available at some time. Until then though, it's commercial insurance time boyz!


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## Piotrowski

OHHH you can overdo yourself on the FUD soup that is dished out by some people on here on this issue, with others only wanting to see more of it.


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## scrurbscrud

Piotrowski said:


> OHHH you can overdo yourself on the FUD soup that is dished out by some people on here on this issue, with others only wanting to see more


Yeah, and others can tell you from their own mouth the facts and you still FUD them. So what else is new in the world of denial?


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## uberlady

Get rid of Geico insurance.


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## Kaz

Unfortunately plan on being dropped by GEICO and hope you do not file a claim anytime soon. You cant disclose that you UBER. This is the downfall of doing this, there is some risk involved. My friend just joined UBER and I explained to her not to tell her insurance and she knows. Most of us are in the same boat and it's BS that the insurance companies can do this. Geico will not even work with you on this. I don't know what to tell you but you may have to find another carrier and do not disclose that you do this. I am not a fan of dishonesty but we're left with no other options on this. I am still trying to get info on an affordable commericaal policy for livery (transportation) but for us part- timers, it's not very cost-effective. I'm curious as to hat GEICO tells you after you fill out the questionairre, please let us know.



Roogy said:


> Just started driving a little over a week ago. Have done about 15 trips. I was examing my insurance policy with Geico and in a section called "Important Notice" there was this statement: "There is no coverage under this policy for any motor vehicle that is operated, maintained or used as part of any personal vehicle sharing facilitated by any personal vehicle sharing program."
> 
> So I called Geico and the rep said my policy is still good, but could be void if I continue to drive for Uber, and she recommended I hold off while their underwriters send me a questionnaire.
> 
> I was only planning to drive maybe 5 hours a week so I'm going to stop for now. Commercial insurance doesn't make sense for my situation and I don't want to get voided over a $100-150 hr/week side job.
> 
> Anyone else have Geico and dealt with this?


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## UberBlackDriverLA

Kaz said:


> Unfortunately plan on being dropped by GEICO and hope you do not file a claim anytime soon. You cant disclose that you UBER. This is the downfall of doing this, there is some risk involved. My friend just joined UBER and I explained to her not to tell her insurance and she knows. Most of us are in the same boat and it's BS that the insurance companies can do this. Geico will not even work with you on this. I don't know what to tell you but you may have to find another carrier and do not disclose that you do this. I am not a fan of dishonesty but we're left with no other options on this. I am still trying to get info on an affordable commericaal policy for livery (transportation) but for us part- timers, it's not very cost-effective. I'm curious as to hat GEICO tells you after you fill out the questionairre, please let us know.


No, what is bulls**t is that your business model relies on comitting insurance fraud to be profitable. Thats right, you are not being "dishonest," you are breaking the law. If making less than minimum wage is worth comitting insurance fraud for you than go for it.


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## Kaz

Your handle states you are an UBER driver...... do you have a commercial policy? Can you throw us a bone here and tell us how to go about getting one? And almost EVERY Uber driver on this website is committing insurance fraud. And every LYFT driver too. I don't feel guilty- all of us desire to do the right thing but the insurance industry is making it difficult.



UberBlackDriverLA said:


> No, what is bulls**t is that your business model relies on comitting insurance fraud to be profitable. Thats right, you are not being "dishonest," you are breaking the law. If making less than minimum wage is worth comitting insurance fraud for you than go for it.


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## UberBlackDriverLA

Kaz said:


> Your handle states you are an UBER driver...... do you have a commercial policy? Can you throw us a bone here and tell us how to go about getting one? And almost EVERY Uber driver on this website is committing insurance fraud. And every LYFT driver too. I don't feel guilty- all of us desire to do the right thing but the insurance industry is making it difficult.


My two cars are Uber black/suv with full time commercial insurance. I have noticed 100's of Prius's and similar vehicles at LAX in the limo lot with TCP numbers on them in the last few months. Having a TCP number means they are commercially insured. Many UberX drivers are figuring out they need commercial insurance and have been taking the neccessary steps to operate legally. With a TCP and commercial insurance they can do the lucrative airport runs.


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## arto71

scrurbscrud said:


> Uber also requires the drivers personal auto company to be notified FIRST in the case of any app time [with no pax] accident *so they are going to find out anyway.*


By you(driver) or by uber?


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## UberBlackDriverLA

Kaz said:


> Your handle states you are an UBER driver...... do you have a commercial policy? Can you throw us a bone here and tell us how to go about getting one? And almost EVERY Uber driver on this website is committing insurance fraud. And every LYFT driver too. I don't feel guilty- all of us desire to do the right thing but the insurance industry is making it difficult.


Another thing I want to add here... I feel your pain, but you are blaming the wrong person. UBER is the company that does not want to operate by any rules or laws and expects its employees (yes, i said employees because thats what the law is going to classify us as) to violate rules and laws as well. Yes, it sucks to work for a company that operates that way, but it is not the fault of insurance companies. Insurance companies offer commercial insurance for those who want it. I pay $5000 per year per car. The suburban is a little more because LAX requires a general liability policy for SUVs as well. But Uber has a business model that is trying to get commercial coverage at the cost of personal coverage and the insurance companies are not going for it. Nor should they!


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## scrurbscrud

arto71 said:


> By you(driver) or by uber?


Who has the personal auto insurance? You or Uber?

sheesh. Do you really need to be told that one?


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## IEUber

Your a troll
Who watched the "geico uber insurance" video 
On YouTube!!!


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## arto71

scrurbscrud said:


> Who has the personal auto insurance? You or Uber?
> 
> sheesh. Do you really need to be told that one?


 I was trying to point it out that fact is even if we hide it from our own insurance co. that we had an accident uber has a every RIGHT to let them know about it.
Rasier Software Sublicense Agreement June 20 2014.
''You agree to fully cooperate with the User and/or the Company to resolve injury or damage claims as quickly as possible. You further acknowledge that, in the event of damage or an insurance claim, the Company may inform your insurance provider, or the insurance provider of any other party involved, of the claim and provide information about your acceptance or performance of a Request at the time of the damage or incident underlying a claim"
That's what exactly happened to a guy who i refer to drive a uber.


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## scrurbscrud

arto71 said:


> I was trying to point it out that fact is even if we hide it from our own insurance co. that we had an accident uber has a every RIGHT to let them know about it.
> Rasier Software Sublicense Agreement June 20 2014.
> ''You agree to fully cooperate with the User and/or the Company to resolve injury or damage claims as quickly as possible. You further acknowledge that, in the event of damage or an insurance claim, the Company may inform your insurance provider, or the insurance provider of any other party involved, of the claim and provide information about your acceptance or performance of a Request at the time of the damage or incident underlying a claim"
> That's what exactly happened to a guy who i refer to drive a uber.


Probably best for the insured person to report it to their own ins. co. though rather than Uber in the case of any accident? The pers. auto. ins. will find out regardless from accident reports.


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## arto71

Agree


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## Desert Driver

floridog said:


> And you would lose....miserably. Nobody is "ride sharing" They are transporting passengers for payment.
> 
> I pray to God you are not a lawyer because you are going to die a broke and lonely man.
> 
> What Uber does is illegal and we all know it!


Actually, Sparky, Uber is doing nothing illegal. We'd love to have you explain what Uber is doing illegally. That'd be some good reading. However, if drivers are not properly insured for livery driving, then the drivers themselves are negligent. Virtually *no* non-commercial insurance covers drivers who are operating their vehicles for livery service.

Now you know. No thanks necessary.


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## UberBlackDriverLA

Desert Driver said:


> Actually, Sparky, Uber is doing nothing illegal. We'd love to have you explain what Uber is doing illegally. That'd be some good reading. However, if drivers are not properly insured for livery driving, then the drivers themselves are negligent. Virtually *no* non-commercial insurance covers drivers who are operating their vehicles for livery service.
> 
> Now you know. No thanks necessary.


You are correct, the drivers, not Uber, are the ones operating illegally in most cases.


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## Desert Driver

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> You are correct, the drivers, not Uber, are the ones operating illegally in most cases.


Exactly. Ptoblem is, Uber likely knows the vast majority of its drivers are not adequately insured, but they'll never divulge that to riders. In essence, Uber is perfectly confortable leaving its drivers and riders out in the cold and twisting in the wind in event of a mishap.


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## teldar86

I have Geico insurance (live in Indiana). I had been investigating driving for Uber this past August and had actually attended a hotel meeting and obtained a phone, info, etc. In early September, someone ran into the rear of my vehicle while i was stopped at a roundabout, causing nearly $2,000 in damage. It was his fault and he admitted this to the police. I contacted Geico to notify them of the accident. The first thing they asked me was "was this car ever used to transport people for money?" and then "have i ever been paid to transport people in this vehicle?". I had not started driving for Uber so it was not a problem. But i'm assuming that they wouldn't pay any claims had I been an Uber driver and probably would have cancelled my insurance. At that point, I was too nervous regarding the potential liability so have not started as an Uber driver. I did see in another thread on this site that Erie Insurance is now offering covering for Uber and Lyft drivers in Indiana and Illinois.


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## Desert Driver

teldar86 said:


> I have Geico insurance (live in Indiana). I had been investigating driving for Uber this past August and had actually attended a hotel meeting and obtained a phone, info, etc. In early September, someone ran into the rear of my vehicle while i was stopped at a roundabout, causing nearly $2,000 in damage. It was his fault and he admitted this to the police. I contacted Geico to notify them of the accident. The first thing they asked me was "was this car ever used to transport people for money?" and then "have i ever been paid to transport people in this vehicle?". I had not started driving for Uber so it was not a problem. But i'm assuming that they wouldn't pay any claims had I been an Uber driver and probably would have cancelled my insurance. At that point, I was too nervous regarding the potential liability so have not started as an Uber driver. I did see in another thread on this site that Erie Insurance is now offering covering for Uber and Lyft drivers in Indiana and Illinois.


I have heard many say that Geico is the next best thing to having no insurance at all. Your experience seems to confirm that. If Uber was really about due diligence, it would require drivers to carry commercial insurance for livery purposes. Sadly, Uber is *not* about due diligence.


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## suewho

teldar86 said:


> I have Geico insurance (live in Indiana). I had been investigating driving for Uber this past August and had actually attended a hotel meeting and obtained a phone, info, etc. In early September, someone ran into the rear of my vehicle while i was stopped at a roundabout, causing nearly $2,000 in damage. It was his fault and he admitted this to the police. I contacted Geico to notify them of the accident. The first thing they asked me was "was this car ever used to transport people for money?" and then "have i ever been paid to transport people in this vehicle?". I had not started driving for Uber so it was not a problem. But i'm assuming that they wouldn't pay any claims had I been an Uber driver and probably would have cancelled my insurance. At that point, I was too nervous regarding the potential liability so have not started as an Uber driver. I did see in another thread on this site that Erie Insurance is now offering covering for Uber and Lyft drivers in Indiana and Illinois.


hey good for you, you're obviously more intelligent than the average uber driver


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## Desert Driver

suewho said:


> hey good for you, you're obviously more intelligent than the average uber driver


It's not fair to impugn the intelligence of Uber drivers. Uber drivers just need to understand what their insurance does and does not cover.


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## pengduck

Desert Driver said:


> Actually, Sparky, Uber is doing nothing illegal. We'd love to have you explain what Uber is doing illegally. That'd be some good reading. However, if drivers are not properly insured for livery driving, then the drivers themselves are negligent. Virtually *no* non-commercial insurance covers drivers who are operating their vehicles for livery service.
> 
> Now you know. No thanks necessary.


Let me get technical for a minute if I may. First the only time you are a livery vehicle is when you have a pax in the car. Otherwise you are just an ordinary driver. Since Uber's policy kicks in when you have a pax you should be fine. At the time you have a pax your normal policy would not cover you. However it is illegal in most if not all states to have 2 policies in effect at one time. Since while driving a pax your normal policy would be void there should be no problem.


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## Damnsammit

pengduck said:


> Let me technical for a minute if I may. First the only time you are a livery vehicle is when you have a pax in the car. Otherwise you are just an ordinary driver. Since Uber's policy kicks in when you have a pax you should be fine. At the time you have a pax your normal policy would not cover you. However it is illegal in most if not all states to have 2 policies in effect at one time. Since while driving a pax your normal policy would be void there should be no problem.


This is what I originally thought when I was driving... but I seriously just don't feel comfortable driving for Uber/Lyft without commercial insurance so I have stopped. I need to take the time to review Uber's insurance policy and see if that gives me some peace of mind. I know that my personal insurance covers me whenever the apps are off, but when I am en route to a pax, that goes out the window and Uber's policy is not yet active since there is no passenger in my vehicle. Insurance fraud (lying to Progressive) would be the only way to avoid a dire situation if an accident occurred en route to a pax.

I'm going to look into getting commercial insurance in a few weeks, but it would have to be around $300/mo for me to feel like it would be worth it to continue.


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## Desert Driver

pengduck said:


> Let me get technical for a minute if I may. First the only time you are a livery vehicle is when you have a pax in the car. Otherwise you are just an ordinary driver. Since Uber's policy kicks in when you have a pax you should be fine. At the time you have a pax your normal policy would not cover you. However it is illegal in most if not all states to have 2 policies in effect at one time. Since while driving a pax your normal policy would be void there should be no problem.


Hold on a sec. Allow me to get even more technical. When the pax is in your car, the Uber liability policy covers ONLY bodily injury. Ergo, if an Uber driver has a pax in the car, then gets into an accident that is his fault, there is no property insurance on the car at that time UNLESS the driver also has a commercial insurance policy on his vehicle that covers property damage, not just liability.


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## Markopolo

you have a point UberRey!


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## pengduck

Desert Driver said:


> Hold on a sec. Allow me to get even more technical. When the pax is in your car, the Uber liability policy covers ONLY bodily injury. Ergo, if an Uber driver has a pax in the car, then gets into an accident that is his fault, there is no property insurance on the car at that time UNLESS the driver also has a commercial insurance policy on his vehicle that covers property damage, not just liability.


ok


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## Desert Driver

There is a lot of confusion and misinformation out there about insurance while driving for Uber. Nearly everyonr is violating the livery exclusion in their personal auto insurance when they drive for Uber. And according to my insurance agent, most companies won't even write a policy for any driver who drives for Uber, Lyft, etc. And commercial policies average around $5K per year. It may very well be that the Uber model is simply not sustainable. So, I have just launched a research campaign with Uber to get to the bottom of this. I have a series of scenarios created that Uber will be answering for me. Here's the first one.

*Scenario 1:* An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car.
Questions:
1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?​I have several other scenarios developed and I will post them here as I get them answered by the legal/insurance folks at Uber. As I get the answers, we would all be well-advised to keep them on hand should we ever find ourselves in a bad situation.


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## Bart McCoy

Desert Driver said:


> There is a lot of confusion and misinformation out there about insurance while driving for Uber. Nearly everyonr is violating the livery exclusion in their personal auto insurance when they drive for Uber. And according to my insurance agent, most companies won't even write a policy for any driver who drives for Uber, Lyft, etc. And commercial policies average around $5K per year. It may very well be that the Uber model is simply not sustainable. So, I have just launched a research campaign with Uber to get to the bottom of this. I have a series of scenarios created that Uber will be answering for me. Here's the first one.
> 
> *Scenario 1:* An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car.
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?​I have several other scenarios developed and I will post them here as I get them answered by the legal/insurance folks at Uber. As I get the answers, we would all be well-advised to keep them on hand should we ever find ourselves in a bad situation.


We already know Uber's policy depending on personal insurance is not efficient.
However there are already people with legit personal + rideshare policies now.
I'm sure once other insurance companies see how 1 company is getting all the business insuring uber riders, that more and more insurance companies will hop on and super personal vehicles to do uber/lyft. And more companies that do, the more the competition, and the lower the price to consumers.....


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## Desert Driver

Bart McCoy said:


> We already know Uber's policy depending on personal insurance is not efficient.
> However there are already people with legit personal + rideshare policies now.
> I'm sure once other insurance companies see how 1 company is getting all the business *insuring uber riders*, that more and more insurance companies will hop on and super personal vehicles to do uber/lyft. And more companies that do, the more the competition, and the lower the price to consumers.....


I'm less concerned about the rider and more concerned about me as a driver. The rider is covered by Uber's liability policy. But we drivers are phuqued if we get hurt or our cars get mangled, because our personal insurance carriers will tell us to get bent. So far we're hearing stories about insurance companies providing policy riders and addendums for Uber drivers, but they're like unicorns - no one has ever actually seen one. Until then, Uber needs to come clean with us about what its insurance actually covers. In the interest of personal financial safety, Uber drivers *must* read and understand the exclusions in their personal automobile insurance policies.


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## SF Uber Driver

Roogy said:


> Just started driving a little over a week ago. Have done about 15 trips. I was examing my insurance policy with Geico and in a section called "Important Notice" there was this statement: "There is no coverage under this policy for any motor vehicle that is operated, maintained or used as part of any personal vehicle sharing facilitated by any personal vehicle sharing program."
> 
> So I called Geico and the rep said my policy is still good, but could be void if I continue to drive for Uber, and she recommended I hold off while their underwriters send me a questionnaire.
> 
> I was only planning to drive maybe 5 hours a week so I'm going to stop for now. Commercial insurance doesn't make sense for my situation and I don't want to get voided over a $100-150 hr/week side job.
> 
> Anyone else have Geico and dealt with this?


This makes it pretty clear where Geico stands on ridesharing...and Uber...

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Leaked-transcript-shows-Geico-s-stance-against-5910113.php


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## Older Chauffeur

Bart McCoy said:


> We already know Uber's policy depending on personal insurance is not efficient.
> However there are already people with legit personal + rideshare policies now.
> I'm sure once other insurance companies see how 1 company is getting all the business insuring uber riders, that more and more insurance companies will hop on and super personal vehicles to do uber/lyft. And more companies that do, the more the competition, and the lower the price to consumers.....


May I comment on a couple of word definitions here, and I mean no offense, nor to quibble. I think the word relating to the performance of insurance is "sufficient " rather than "efficient." Suffice means "enough." Secondly, my insurance company considers "ride share" to mean people commuting or otherwise traveling together and sharing in the expenses the owner of the vehicle incurs. Similar to carpooling but not trading off using each participating member's car equally, but not to include "transportation of passengers for hire."
Just my two cents' worth.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Desert Driver said:


> I'm less concerned about the rider and more concerned about me as a driver. The rider is covered by Uber's liability policy. But we drivers are phuqued if we get hurt or our cars get mangled, because our personal insurance carriers will tell us to get bent. So far we're hearing stories about insurance companies providing policy riders and addendums for Uber drivers, but they're like unicorns - no one has ever actually seen one. Until then, Uber needs to come clean with us about what its insurance actually covers. In the interest of personal financial safety, Uber drivers *must* read and understand the exclusions in their personal automobile insurance policies.


I made a typo, of course I meant insurance companies insuring DRIVERS
and im talking about the new Hybrid polices, where no one has to lie to their insurance company or worry about doing uber/lyft


----------



## Bart McCoy

Older Chauffeur said:


> May I comment on a couple of word definitions here, and I mean no offense, nor to quibble. I think the word relating to the performance of insurance is "sufficient " rather than "efficient." Suffice means "enough." Secondly, my insurance company considers "ride share" to mean people commuting or otherwise traveling together and sharing in the expenses the owner of the vehicle incurs. Similar to carpooling but not trading off using each participating member's car equally.
> Just my two cents' worth.


yes i meant sufficient, you obviously knew what i meant
point is every knows a basic personal insurance policy is not the answer,nothing new here


----------



## Desert Driver

Bart McCoy said:


> I made a typo, of course I meant insurance companies insuring DRIVERS
> and im talking about the new Hybrid polices, where no one has to lie to their insurance company or worry about doing uber/lyft


But has anyone actually seen one of these policies? None of the major carriers offer them.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Bart McCoy said:


> yes i meant sufficient, you obviously knew what i meant
> point is every knows a basic personal insurance policy is not the answer,nothing new here


You are not the only one to have used that word in writing about insurance.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Desert Driver said:


> But has anyone actually seen one of these policies? None of the major carriers offer them.


hybrid polices are just starting
just starting meaning only like a week or so old
but like it said, its bound to pick up
insurance companies are not gonna let one insurance company make all the money, thats guaranteed

check the thread:
https://uberpeople.net/threads/hybrid-insurance-for-uber-lyft-drivers-is-on-the-way.7037/


----------



## Desert Driver

Bart McCoy said:


> hybrid polices are just starting
> just starting meaning only like a week or so old
> but like it said, its bound to pick up
> insurance companies are not gonna let one insurance company make all the money, thats guaranteed
> 
> check the thread:
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/hybrid-insurance-for-uber-lyft-drivers-is-on-the-way.7037/


But we will agree that until such time as those policies are actually available, Uber drivers would be well advised to stay off the streets and to cease driving for Uber.


----------



## Desert Driver

Bart McCoy said:


> hybrid polices are just starting
> just starting meaning only like a week or so old
> but like it said, its bound to pick up
> insurance companies are not gonna let one insurance company make all the money, thats guaranteed
> 
> check the thread:
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/hybrid-insurance-for-uber-lyft-drivers-is-on-the-way.7037/


That's a very encouraging article. But the $64,000 question remains... *When*?


----------



## Kaz

Yes Geico is doing that!! If you are an Uber driver and you have to file a claim or call in to update anything, they will ask you. I'm not an advocate for lying but there is an argument that you are paying insurance and if the accident occurred when you were not transporting anyone, you have a right to expect them to pay. I think other drivers and insured have lied about this and, I honestly don't see any insurance co investigating this or finding out. There are scare tactics by some other people on here that will say you'll be thrown in prison by lying, etc. I doubt that will happen as there are bigger fish to fry. But most of us can't get a commercial policy for our cars- I've been trying for a month and depending on what state you live in, there may not be any underwriters willing to do this in your area. Uber sucks- they know we're not really covered and the insurance companies have heard a lot of bad things about Uber and their terrible insurance, so I doubt any of the insurance companies will change their stance on this.



teldar86 said:


> I have Geico insurance (live in Indiana). I had been investigating driving for Uber this past August and had actually attended a hotel meeting and obtained a phone, info, etc. In early September, someone ran into the rear of my vehicle while i was stopped at a roundabout, causing nearly $2,000 in damage. It was his fault and he admitted this to the police. I contacted Geico to notify them of the accident. The first thing they asked me was "was this car ever used to transport people for money?" and then "have i ever been paid to transport people in this vehicle?". I had not started driving for Uber so it was not a problem. But i'm assuming that they wouldn't pay any claims had I been an Uber driver and probably would have cancelled my insurance. At that point, I was too nervous regarding the potential liability so have not started as an Uber driver. I did see in another thread on this site that Erie Insurance is now offering covering for Uber and Lyft drivers in Indiana and Illinois.


that!!


----------



## Whiff

Saw this thread about EIB:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/insurance-dedicated-to-rideshare.7576/

Anybody get any quotes from them yet? Do they seem legit? Has anyone discovered it to be a snake-oil / hog-wash / bait-and-switch deal?


----------



## Desert Driver

Kaz said:


> Yes Geico is doing that!! If you are an Uber driver and you have to file a claim or call in to update anything, they will ask you. I'm not an advocate for lying but there is an argument that you are paying insurance and if the accident occurred when you were not transporting anyone, you have a right to expect them to pay. I think other drivers and insured have lied about this and, I honestly don't see any insurance co investigating this or finding out. There are scare tactics by some other people on here that will say you'll be thrown in prison by lying, etc. I doubt that will happen as there are bigger fish to fry. But most of us can't get a commercial policy for our cars- I've been trying for a month and depending on what state you live in, there may not be any underwriters willing to do this in your area. Uber sucks- they know we're not really covered and the insurance companies have heard a lot of bad things about Uber and their terrible insurance, so I doubt any of the insurance companies will change their stance on this.
> 
> that!!


Uber and insurance carriers are going to have to find a solution (I mean a real solution) to the insurance gap problem, otherwise the Uber model may prove to be unsustainable. The very idea that simply driving for Uber/Lift/Sidecar is grounds for some carriers to drop clients is more than a little worrisome and could very well spell the end of this model. How many prospective drivers are going to sign on once word gets out that their personal automobile insurance will be at risk?


----------



## Desert Driver

Whiff said:


> Saw this thread about EIB:
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/insurance-dedicated-to-rideshare.7576/
> 
> Anybody get any quotes from them yet? Do they seem legit? Has anyone discovered it to be a snake-oil / hog-wash / bait-and-switch deal?


I have my car insured with Progressive. It runs me $494 per year to fully cover my car. I had my Progressive agent quote a commercial policy for me today with the same coverage limits. The annual premium will be $4,409. So, if I want to continue driving for Uber AND have my car properly insured, I will face a ninefold increase in my annual premium. Clearly this is not feasible. At $25/hour, it'd take 176 hours just to cover the annual commercial insurance premium.

Folks, the sad truth here is, the numbers just don't work if you plan to drive for Uber with legitimate, proper insurance coverage. Sure, you can take your chances, but what happens if you cause a crash and someone is hurt or killed, or your car is totaled? Can you afford to replace your totaled car if the insurance company tells you to take a flying phuque?


----------



## Richard Schusterman

*Details on the insurance policy held by Uber:*

*$1 million of liability coverage per incident.* Uber holds a commercial insurance policy with $1 million of coverage per incident. This policy covers drivers' liability from the time a driver accepts a trip request through the app until the completion of a trip. This policy is excess to the driver's own policy, but it acts as primary insurance if the driver's policy is not available for any reason, covering from the first dollar. We have provided this coverage since commencing ridesharing in early 2013.
*$1 million of uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage per incident.* In December, we also added uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. In the event that another motorist causes an accident with an uberX vehicle and doesn't carry adequate insurance, this policy of $1 million per incident covers bodily injury. This is important to ensure that riders are protected in a hit and run.
*$50,000 of contingent comprehensive and collision insurance.* If a ridesharing driver holds personal comprehensive and collision insurance that is found not to apply, this policy covers physical damage to that vehicle that occurs during a trip, for any reason, up to $50,000 and with a $1,000 deductible.
*$50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.*During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. This policy meets or exceeds the requirements for 3rd party liability insurance in every state in the U.S.


----------



## Whiff

Desert Driver said:


> At $25/hour, it'd take 176 hours just to cover the annual commercial insurance premium.


Uber: But you can easily do 176 hours in the first week of being properly insured! How many other ventures can you get back your investment within the first week?

Uber Driver: There are only 168 hours in a week...

U: Oh, don't be so nitpicky! A few hours misplaced here, a few hours misplaced there, so what? You're still making $25 an hour! Last night we shouldn't have even guaranteed $25 an hour because our top drivers made $500 in 7 hours, so that works out to $71 an hour!

UD: After taxes, fuel, repairs and maintenance, I'm only seeing $10 an hour.

U: Here, let me sweeten the deal: it's called MOMENTUM! You get 10% off at AutoZone and 15% off from Verizon. Who loves you, baby?

UD: That doesn't really help me with commercial auto insurance premiums, especially since I'm not making the money you say I am.

U: Stop frowning.

UD: What?

U: Shut up.

UD: I'm just trying to have a conversation about commercial insur-

U: Deactivated. Oh, HELLO new Uber Drivers! Come on over! You're going to make $4,000 a WEEK! And you even get MOMENTUM!!! OH MAH GUSH, you'll just LOVE talking with all the cute people at AutoZone while they save you SO MUCH MONEY! No darling, there's nothing wrong with the app, it's you. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, like, uh...here, let me email you back in, like, whenever I'm not busy. Hello? Can't you get a clue? Duh! Your passengers vomit because they're drunk. How long did it take you to figure that one out, Einstein? Go clean it up and email me when I'm not busy. What? Here, let me give you a...DEACTIVATION! Oh, HELLO new Uber Drivers...


----------



## Desert Driver

Whiff said:


> Uber: But you can easily do 176 hours in the first week of being properly insured! How many other ventures can you get back your investment within the first week?
> 
> Uber Driver: There are only 168 hours in a week...
> 
> U: Oh, don't be so nitpicky! A few hours misplaced here, a few hours misplaced there, so what? You're still making $25 an hour! Last night we shouldn't have even guaranteed $25 an hour because our top drivers made $500 in 7 hours, so that works out to $71 an hour!
> 
> UD: After taxes, fuel, repairs and maintenance, I'm only seeing $10 an hour.
> 
> U: Here, let me sweeten the deal: it's called MOMENTUM! You get 10% off at AutoZone and 15% off from Verizon. Who loves you, baby?
> 
> UD: That doesn't really help me with commercial auto insurance premiums, especially since I'm not making the money you say I am.
> 
> U: Stop frowning.
> 
> UD: What?
> 
> U: Shut up.
> 
> UD: I'm just trying to have a conversation about commercial insur-
> 
> U: Deactivated. Oh, HELLO new Uber Drivers! Come on over! You're going to make $4,000 a WEEK! And you even get MOMENTUM!!! OH MAH GUSH, you'll just LOVE talking with all the cute people at AutoZone while they save you SO MUCH MONEY! No darling, there's nothing wrong with the app, it's you. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, like, uh...here, let me email you back in, like, whenever I'm not busy. Hello? Can't you get a clue? Duh! Your passengers vomit because they're drunk. How long did it take you to figure that one out, Einstein? Go clean it up and email me when I'm not busy. What? Here, let me give you a...DEACTIVATION! Oh, HELLO new Uber Drivers...


That's pretty funny. Well done, Whiff. If nothing else, Uber understands one undeniable tenet of capitalism: _Labor is the most expendable resource_.


----------



## Desert Driver

Richard Schusterman said:


> *Details on the insurance policy held by Uber:*
> 
> *$1 million of liability coverage per incident.* Uber holds a commercial insurance policy with $1 million of coverage per incident. This policy covers drivers' liability from the time a driver accepts a trip request through the app until the completion of a trip. This policy is excess to the driver's own policy, but it acts as primary insurance if the driver's policy is not available for any reason, covering from the first dollar. We have provided this coverage since commencing ridesharing in early 2013.
> *$1 million of uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage per incident.* In December, we also added uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. In the event that another motorist causes an accident with an uberX vehicle and doesn't carry adequate insurance, this policy of $1 million per incident covers bodily injury. This is important to ensure that riders are protected in a hit and run.
> *$50,000 of contingent comprehensive and collision insurance.* If a ridesharing driver holds personal comprehensive and collision insurance that is found not to apply, this policy covers physical damage to that vehicle that occurs during a trip, for any reason, up to $50,000 and with a $1,000 deductible.
> *$50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.*During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. This policy meets or exceeds the requirements for 3rd party liability insurance in every state in the U.S.


It'll be interesting to see what Uber has to say about my specific scenario and detailed questions. The next question, of course is, how many lawyers would I have to hire to actually get Uber's insurance to pay for my mangled car and lacerated face?


----------



## Kaz

Have you been to an attorney Desert driver ? That is the first thing I would do if I am involved in an accident while Ubering. Are you here in Az? I can guarantee there Are several aggressive and reputable attorneys here that will take your case and open up a big can of worms. I can recommend a couple I've had experiences with that are barracudas and are well known to go after the big guys. Uber has money-I'm sure a law firm will take your case with no $$ upfront. That's how a lot of firms operate. I've seen changes made as a result of a lawsuit. Red bull was recently ordered to pay for making false claims- it all started w/ someone making a complaint about false advertising. Can you imagine the field day the right lawyer will have. Uber does not have a great rep in general.



Desert Driver said:


> It'll be interesting to see what Uber has to say about my specific scenario and detailed questions. The next question, of course is, how many lawyers would I have to hire to actually get Uber's insurance to pay for my mangled car and lacerated face?


----------



## DriverJ

Desert Driver said:


> I have my car insured with Progressive. It runs me $494 per year to fully cover my car. I had my Progressive agent quote a commercial policy for me today with the same coverage limits. The annual premium will be $4,409. So, if I want to continue driving for Uber AND have my car properly insured, I will face a ninefold increase in my annual premium. Clearly this is not feasible. At $25/hour, it'd take 176 hours just to cover the annual commercial insurance premium.
> 
> Folks, the sad truth here is, the numbers just don't work if you plan to drive for Uber with legitimate, proper insurance coverage. Sure, you can take your chances, but what happens if you cause a crash and someone is hurt or killed, or your car is totaled? Can you afford to replace your totaled car if the insurance company tells you to take a flying phuque?


Man, don't sweat the small stuff. Sure, people will die, cars will be totaled with no insurance coverage, but Uber is getting very wealthy! Isn't that what we're all after at the end of the day?


----------



## DriverJ

Desert Driver said:


> Uber needs to come clean with us about what its insurance actually covers.


Uber is always honest, ethical, and upfront in all their business practices. Ask, and ye shall receive.


----------



## Roogy

Hey, this is the OP here. So Geico never sent me the questionnaire they said they would, but they sent me email today "We need to speak with you about an issue with your Geico insurance policy." So I called the number and spoke to an underwriter and they wanted to know what I'm using my vehicle for. I told them mostly personal use and about 3 hrs/week of Ubering. The rep said I'm still covered with Geico until my renewal date in March, and I can keep doing whatever I want to do until then, but my policy won't be renewed unless I furnish proof by the renewal date that I'm no longer driving for Uber. So I guess I'll "Uber On" for 3 more months, then deactivate at the end of February. 

I'm glad to get peace of mind that they won't fight a claim should one occur while I'm not on the clock for Uber. Been worried about getting into an accident on my own time and then having an issue with insurance. For those who haven't contacted their insurance company about it, seems the way to go is "don't ask don't tell".


----------



## DC_Uber_Lyft_Driver

And just what exactly are you supposed to provide to them that proves you are no longer driving for Uber?


----------



## Roogy

DC_Uber_Lyft_Driver said:


> And just what exactly are you supposed to provide to them that proves you are no longer driving for Uber?


I was thinking I'd email Uber to deactivate me, and ask for a confirmation that I have been deactivated.


----------



## DriverJ

Roogy said:


> Hey, this is the OP here. So Geico never sent me the questionnaire they said they would, but they sent me email today "We need to speak with you about an issue with your Geico insurance policy." So I called the number and spoke to an underwriter and they wanted to know what I'm using my vehicle for. I told them mostly personal use and about 3 hrs/week of Ubering. The rep said I'm still covered with Geico until my renewal date in March, and I can keep doing whatever I want to do until then, but my policy won't be renewed unless I furnish proof by the renewal date that I'm no longer driving for Uber. So I guess I'll "Uber On" for 3 more months, then deactivate at the end of February.
> 
> I'm glad to get peace of mind that they won't fight a claim should one occur while I'm not on the clock for Uber. Been worried about getting into an accident on my own time and then having an issue with insurance. For those who haven't contacted their insurance company about it, seems the way to go is "don't ask don't tell".


I'm sure you'll be better off not working for Uber anyway. One major accident could have probably wiped out any profit you may have shown anyway.

A huge financial risk, combined with almost no money, isn't my idea of a good job.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Desert Driver

Roogy said:


> Hey, this is the OP here. So Geico never sent me the questionnaire they said they would, but they sent me email today "We need to speak with you about an issue with your Geico insurance policy." So I called the number and spoke to an underwriter and they wanted to know what I'm using my vehicle for. I told them mostly personal use and about 3 hrs/week of Ubering. The rep said I'm still covered with Geico until my renewal date in March, and I can keep doing whatever I want to do until then, but my policy won't be renewed unless I furnish proof by the renewal date that I'm no longer driving for Uber. So I guess I'll "Uber On" for 3 more months, then deactivate at the end of February.
> 
> I'm glad to get peace of mind that they won't fight a claim should one occur while I'm not on the clock for Uber. Been worried about getting into an accident on my own time and then having an issue with insurance. For those who haven't contacted their insurance company about it, seems the way to go is "don't ask don't tell".


As the old saying goes - _Geico: The next best ting to having no insurance at all_.


----------



## DriverJ

Desert Driver said:


> As the old saying goes - _Geico: The next best ting to having no insurance at all_.


Never heard that. I've had Geico for probably well over 10 years. I've only had two claims, and I can't imagine it going any smoother. Geico and Progressive were both the cheapest by far for me. I bounced back and forth a few times, as one would lower their rates to beat the other I guess. I finally just stayed with Geico.

Have you had problems with Geico?


----------



## Desert Driver

DriverJ said:


> Never heard that. I've had Geico for probably well over 10 years. I've only had one claim, and I can't imagine it going any smoother. Geico and Progressive were both the cheapest by far for me. I bounced back and forth a few times, as one would lower their rates to beat the other I guess. I finally just stayed with Geico.
> 
> Have you had problems with Geico?


I've never been insured with Geico, but I have had the unfortunate experience of being hit (twice) by drivers insured with Geico. It seemed the claims should have been settled more expeditiously since there was zero doubt that I was not at fault. Yet, my damaged car sat at the body shop for an extra week waiting for the go-ahead to repair. On the upside, I really like the gecko, the Geico camel, and the cavemen.
I dropped State Farm a couple years ago after they totally ****ed a bunch of us over on a cat claim fiasco when a freak hail storm wiped out rooves, cars, swimming pool equipment, etc. I had been insured with SF for 30+ years. I had no choice but to drop them. Now Flo insures my cars, with the exception of my weekend hotrod.


----------



## DjTim

DriverJ said:


> Never heard that. I've had Geico for probably well over 10 years. I've only had one claim, and I can't imagine it going any smoother. Geico and Progressive were both the cheapest by far for me. I bounced back and forth a few times, as one would lower their rates to beat the other I guess. I finally just stayed with Geico.
> 
> Have you had problems with Geico?


I've had friends that complain about Geico. I have never personally had to file a claim against a driver that had Geico as their policy holder. I personally think they are the "Uber" of insurance companies. It's not too hard to find some of the complaints on them, but they pay a crap ton of Ad Word cash to rank their website higher then other sites with information.


----------



## KeJorn

Desert Driver said:


> On the upside, I really like the gecko, the Geico camel, and the cavemen.


The private corporations of today KNOW where to focus their money and resources on... 
Clearly, they have our best interest at heart... "Are you not entertained?!?"


----------



## DriverJ

Desert Driver said:


> I've never been insured with Geico, but I have had the unfortunate experience of being hit (twice) by drivers insured with Geico. It seemed the claims should have been settled more expeditiously since there was zero doubt that I was not at fault. Yet, my damaged car sat at the body shop for an extra week waiting for the go-ahead to repair. On the upside, I really like the gecko, the Geico camel, and the cavemen.
> I dropped State Farm a couple years ago after they totally ****ed a bunch of us over on a cat claim fiasco when a freak hail storm wiped out rooves, cars, swimming pool equipment, etc. I had been insured with SF for 30+ years. I had no choice but to drop them. Now Flo insures my cars, with the exception of my weekend hotrod.


I got screwed by State Farm too. I had been with them for maybe 15 years. My agent even told me what was going on, which I won't go into here, but it was some shady stuff. Rather Uberish, I'd say. They got a lot of people at about the same time around this area.

The Gecko is all that. One of the best spokeslizards out there, IMO. If he takes an Uber ride with you, you're getting a tip! He's too cool not to tip.


----------



## Peter O'

Roogy said:


> Just started driving a little over a week ago. Have done about 15 trips. I was examing my insurance policy with Geico and in a section called "Important Notice" there was this statement: "There is no coverage under this policy for any motor vehicle that is operated, maintained or used as part of any personal vehicle sharing facilitated by any personal vehicle sharing program."
> 
> So I called Geico and the rep said my policy is still good, but could be void if I continue to drive for Uber, and she recommended I hold off while their underwriters send me a questionnaire.
> 
> I was only planning to drive maybe 5 hours a week so I'm going to stop for now. Commercial insurance doesn't make sense for my situation and I don't want to get voided over a $100-150 hr/week side job.
> 
> Anyone else have Geico and dealt with this?


Yep, got the same info.


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> It's RIDEsharing, not VEHICLEsharing. I'd argue this in court any day of the week.


Are you a lawyer?


----------



## DriverJ

DjTim said:


> I've had friends that complain about Geico. I have never personally had to file a claim against a driver that had Geico as their policy holder. I personally think they are the "Uber" of insurance companies. It's not too hard to find some of the complaints on them, but they pay a crap ton of Ad Word cash to rank their website higher then other sites with information.


If you don't have Geico, or have never filed a claim against a Geico insured driver, I'm not sure you're offering much more than a hunch, or spreading rumors. Maybe you were traumatized by a Gecko when you were young, and this is a PTSD type thing? 

What were your 'friends' complaints?

I've had auto insurance for nearly 40 years, and I like Geico better than any of the rest I've done business with. Of course I've just had the two claims. One was an accident with another vehicle, and a deer slammed into the side of me. I can't imagine the claims being handled faster, or in any way better than what they were. That, along with the fact that their rates are the best (for me), I can't imagine going anywhere else.

Their customer service is also excellent. This is just my experience. It is first-hand experience though.

An excellent product, great service, and fantastic rates are enough for me.

If you're letting your 'friends,' that may or may not have personal experience with Geico, influence your decisions, I'd stop and think for a few. You just may save a lot of money for insurance that is better than what you have.


----------



## DjTim

DriverJ said:


> If you don't have Geico, or have never filed a claim against a Geico insured driver, I'm not sure you're offering much more than a hunch, or spreading rumors. Maybe you were traumatized by a Gecko when you were young, and this is a PTSD type thing?
> 
> What were your 'friends' complaints?
> 
> I've had auto insurance for nearly 40 years, and I like Geico better than any of the rest I've done business with. Of course I've just had the two claims. One was an accident with another vehicle, and a deer slammed into the side of me. I can't imagine the claims being handled faster, or in any way better than what they were. That, along with the fact that their rates are the best (for me), I can't imagine going anywhere else.
> 
> Their customer service is also excellent. This is just my experience. It is first-hand experience though.
> 
> An excellent product, great service, and fantastic rates are enough for me.
> 
> If you're letting your 'friends,' that may or may not have personal experience with Geico, influence your decisions, I'd stop and think for a few. You just may save a lot of money for insurance that is better than what you have.


I currently have Allstate. I use a lot of my friends, as well as research to influence what I buy, and how I look at a company. My friend that had Geico - he said it was 3 or 4 years ago, he moved onto State Farm. It was around the ability to talk to someone, and filing a claim. He wouldn't go into details, but I'm sure it's the same with any company.

As far as I'm concerned, Geico is on par with any mid-tier insurance company. My comment around "Uber" and Gieco being like Uber, how many pig commercials do you need to see that Geico wants you to use their "App" and really not interact with anyone. Good or bad - you choose. Geico can't touch what I have right now. Nothing against Geico, I just have a really good personal agent, and with pricing it's lower then anyone can match and at a higher coverage.I sit and talk with my Allstate agent once or twice a year. I guess it just gives me warm and fuzzies, or at least a free donut and a cup of coffee.

I think where Geico had an issue was around that 3 or 4 year ago mark. Allstate has been a staple around the Chicago area, I also have friends that work in their IT department.


----------



## UberRey

Peter O' said:


> Are you a lawyer?


I'm not. However the quote from the OP's insurance company speaks to a specific instance of letting other people drive your vehicle. That exact language has been in use long before ridesharing has been around, and can by no means be used to all of a sudden include it. Any Lawyer worth his salt would tear that idea apart in seconds.


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> I'm not. However the quote from the OP's insurance company speaks to a specific instance of letting other people drive your vehicle. That exact language has been in use long before ridesharing has been around, and can by no means be used to all of a sudden include it. Any Lawyer worth his salt would tear that idea apart in seconds.


Your not a lawyer so its just waht you think will happen. OK


----------



## prdelnik666

UberRey said:


> It's RIDEsharing, not VEHICLEsharing. I'd argue this in court any day of the week.


You can argue all day long but there's no ridesharing going on. At all. You are a taxi driver whether you want to call it that or not. Same as Fuber is not a technology firm.


----------



## Peter O'

prdelnik666 said:


> You can argue all day long but there's no ridesharing going on. At all. You are a taxi driver whether you want to call it that or not. Same as Fuber is not a technology firm.


Fuber? wahts that?


----------



## Bart McCoy

if an insurance company has it written in the policy no vehicle sharing, that's clearly different from ridesharing


----------



## UberRey

Peter O' said:


> Your not a lawyer so its just waht you think will happen. OK


By that reasoning your 100K policy can be deemed a 5K policy by your insurance company. Because you aren't a lawyer. See how little sense that makes? The words actually mean something.


----------



## Just_in

prdelnik666 said:


> You can argue all day long but there's no ridesharing going on. At all. You are a taxi driver whether you want to call it that or not. Same as Fuber is not a technology firm.


Exactly. Insurance should be cut and dry. Why all this confusion. Call this insurance company call that one. You get the same answer "personal insurance policy does not cover livery", period.


----------



## prdelnik666

I still can't believe everyone fell for their bs - ride sharing. There is no such a thing, doesn't exist.


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> By that reasoning your 100K policy can be deemed a 5K policy by your insurance company. Because you aren't a lawyer. See how little sense that makes? The words actually mean something.


Numbers mean something too dude

My 100k policy is a 5k policy? What does that mean in the real world?

Dollars, miles what? Read your policy dont make stuff up to score points.


----------



## DjTim

UberRey said:


> I'm not. However the quote from the OP's insurance company speaks to a specific instance of letting other people drive your vehicle. That exact language has been in use long before ridesharing has been around, and can by no means be used to all of a sudden include it. Any Lawyer worth his salt would tear that idea apart in seconds.


This use to be said in almost all insurance policies and you would need to get family members over the age of 25 added. My policy and my inlaws policy covers family members with no additional fee. I know this isn't directly about rideshare, but some people have been f-ed over by this clause because they let a friend drive and the car gets totaled and the insurance company says "Good luck, we don't cover that, check with the driver if they have coverage".


----------



## Peter O'

DjTim said:


> This use to be said in almost all insurance policies and you would need to get family members over the age of 25 added. My policy and my inlaws policy covers family members with no additional fee. I know this isn't directly about rideshare, but some people have been f-ed over by this clause because they let a friend drive and the car gets totaled and the insurance company says "Good luck, we don't cover that, check with the driver if they have coverage".


My policy and my inlaws policy covers family members with no additional fee.

so if your kid turns 16 and get a license the premiums dont go up ? sweet

whose insurance youse got?


----------



## PartTimeUberBoston

The fact of the matter is you are UNDER INSURED if you use your car for hire. Stay away from these services if you value your insurance and not potentially wanting to get dropped


----------



## DjTim

PartTimeUberBoston said:


> The fact of the matter is you are UNDER INSURED if you use your car for hire. Stay away from these services if you value your insurance and not potentially wanting to get dropped


But the "Potential" and "Being" dropped are 2 different things. It's like waving an unloaded gun in someones face and saying "Do you might want to get shot if I load this thing?" At that moment, your not going to be shot, and people should be clear that just "signing up for Uber" won't get your insurance canceled.


----------



## PartTimeUberBoston

DjTim said:


> But the "Potential" and "Being" dropped are 2 different things. It's like waving an unloaded gun in someones face and saying "Do you might want to get shot if I load this thing?" At that moment, your not going to be shot, and people should be clear that just "signing up for Uber" won't get your insurance canceled.


The issue is - by driving for Uber, you violate your agreement with your insurance company. You violate it by assuming the additional risk as a result of operating as a quasi-commercial driver. If caught, YOU WILL BE DROPPED period. As people have indicated before, personal automobile insurance does not cover ride sharing. Looking at you own policies and contacting you own insurance reps is the right thing to do. If people want to stick their heads int he sand like ostriches, then they are just idiots period.


----------



## Realityshark

UberRey said:


> It's RIDEsharing, not VEHICLEsharing. I'd argue this in court any day of the week.


I imagine the Geico lawyers would eat you alive while you try to argue this in court. Plus, the lawyer costs to even go to court would not be worth the money that most of us make playing ********* for Uber.Your argument sounds great on the surface, but in the real world of high priced lawyers and Uber drivers VS insurance company lawyers, I hope we can agree on what will really happen here instead of filling the newbie drivers with false hope.


----------



## Peter O'

Desert Driver said:


> Actually, Sparky, Uber is doing nothing illegal. We'd love to have you explain what Uber is doing illegally. That'd be some good reading. However, if drivers are not properly insured for livery driving, then the drivers themselves are negligent. Virtually *no* non-commercial insurance covers drivers who are operating their vehicles for livery service.
> 
> Now you know. No thanks necessary.


So Uber is legal but its contractors arent

Aounds like aiding and abetting


----------



## Peter O'

Desert Driver said:


> There is a lot of confusion and misinformation out there about insurance while driving for Uber. Nearly everyonr is violating the livery exclusion in their personal auto insurance when they drive for Uber. And according to my insurance agent, most companies won't even write a policy for any driver who drives for Uber, Lyft, etc. And commercial policies average around $5K per year. It may very well be that the Uber model is simply not sustainable. So, I have just launched a research campaign with Uber to get to the bottom of this. I have a series of scenarios created that Uber will be answering for me. Here's the first one.
> 
> *Scenario 1:* An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car.
> Questions:
> 1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
> 2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
> 3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
> 4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?​I have several other scenarios developed and I will post them here as I get them answered by the legal/insurance folks at Uber. As I get the answers, we would all be well-advised to keep them on hand should we ever find ourselves in a bad situation.


So you get in a bad situation and you do what

Give the cops your answer

Tell the judge your answer

Tell your lawyer your answer


----------



## Desert Driver

Peter O' said:


> So you get in a bad situation and you do what
> 
> Give the cops your answer
> 
> Tell the judge your answer
> 
> Tell your lawyer your answer


Then what?


----------



## UberRey

I am a retired LEO. I assure you that no Uber driver is on a normal cop's radar (specialized stings not included). Driving for Uber is NOT illegal. That's not to say that there couldn't be consequences for not being correctly insured, but you won't get into trouble via the police. The scare mongering is coming from the angry cabbies here. 

Que self righteous indignation is 3...2..1...


----------



## Lidman

I thought the phrases were self explanatory. Ridesharing is two or pax in the same cab. Vehicle sharing is two or more persons using the same vehicle. I remember there was a tv where I guy rented a car and let his friend park it for him and the friend wrecked it. When he returned the car to rental agency he had to pay almost 3k since no else was covered except him.

The question is whether or not an insurance company cover more then one person driving the same vehicle.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Lidman said:


> The question is whether or not an insurance company cover more then one person driving the same vehicle.


so your car isnt covered if you lend it out to a friend?


----------



## Lidman

I never said anything about my car. I was referring to tv show (I forgot the name of it, it's Seinfeld). I was making reference to an example of Jerry renting a car and letting George park it. But since (George or anyone else) wasn't covered, Jerry had to foot the while bill.


----------



## Desert Driver

UberRey said:


> I am a retired LEO. I assure you that no Uber driver is on a normal cop's radar (specialized stings not included). Driving for Uber is NOT illegal. That's not to say that there couldn't be consequences for not being correctly insured, but you won't get into trouble via the police. The scare mongering is coming from the angry cabbies here.
> 
> Que self righteous indignation is 3...2..1...


Good post. Thank you.
Is that indignant enough?


----------



## UberRey

Desert Driver said:


> Good post. Thank you.
> Is that indignant enough?


Bastage!

I had other, more contentious, people in mind


----------



## DC_Uber_Lyft_Driver

How do pizza delivery drivers stay insured?


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> I am a retired LEO. I assure you that no Uber driver is on a normal cop's radar (specialized stings not included). Driving for Uber is NOT illegal. That's not to say that there couldn't be consequences for not being correctly insured, but you won't get into trouble via the police. The scare mongering is coming from the angry cabbies here.
> 
> Que self righteous indignation is 3...2..1...


I'm a third generation cabbie.

LEO hero whatever they call themselves. Cops go after low hanging fruit if your a hack driver on the streets 10 hours a day odds are youll get hassled. Doesnt matter if your Uber Checker Yellow or gypsie.

Did you ever get out of texas

Ever hear of the hackney carriage cops, Taxi and Limousine Commission ?


----------



## UberRey

Peter O' said:


> Did you ever get out of texas
> 
> Ever hear of the hackney carriage cops, Taxi and Limousine Commission ?


I lived on the west coast most of my life. Only in Texas the last few years. Taxi Nazis must be an east coast thing. I can't speak as to what you guys deal with out there, but I'm betting you hanged yourselves by electing democrats and joining socialist groups like a union. All politics aside, neither democrats or unions are actually good for the working man. Sorry about your luck.


----------



## Tx rides

pengduck said:


> Let me get technical for a minute if I may. First the only time you are a livery vehicle is when you have a pax in the car. Otherwise you are just an ordinary driver. Since Uber's policy kicks in when you have a pax you should be fine. At the time you have a pax your normal policy would not cover you. However it is illegal in most if not all states to have 2 policies in effect at one time. Since while driving a pax your normal policy would be void there should be no problem.


That's not true. For example, sitting at airport waiting for ping: you are considered a commercial vehicle (most airports require coverage verification for this). If you drive Ms. Thang to her gated community, drop her off, pull away and hit her neighbor: you are a commercial vehicle. Same applies if you are pulling away from hotel lobby. There are some who naively argue their vehicle becomes a personal ride the instant the pax departs, but business owners, airport managers, Insurance providers, attorneys and courts will likely disagree. If a valet testifies you frequent their location for hire, it won't matter that you had no pax when you hit a guest or their car while on their property. You surely won't be able to say you were on personal time if in a gated community which you have no personal access to.these are the types of scenarios which cause insurance companies great concern.


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> I lived on the west coast most of my life. Only in Texas the last few years. Taxi Nazis must be an east coast thing. I can't speak as to what you guys deal with out there, but I'm betting you hanged yourselves by electing democrats and joining socialist groups like a union. All politics aside, neither democrats or unions are actually good for the working man. Sorry about your luck.


so bottom line your diving is livery not taxi.

dont need your sympathy or bumper sticker slogans about politics or unions

no unions of taxi drivers not like the FOP that protects the heros

one think right you cant talk about what pro drivers deal with to make a living


----------



## Peter O'

Tx rides said:


> That's not true. For example, sitting at airport waiting for ping: you are considered a commercial vehicle (most airports require coverage verification for this). If you drive Ms. Thang to her gated community, drop her off, pull away and hit her neighbor: you are a commercial vehicle. Same applies if you are pulling away from hotel lobby. There are some who naively argue their vehicle becomes a personal ride the instant the pax departs, but business owners, airport managers, Insurance providers, attorneys and courts will likely disagree. If a valet testifies you frequent their location for hire, it won't matter that you had no pax when you hit a guest or their car while on their property. You surely won't be able to say you were on personal time if in a gated community which you have no personal access to.these are the types of scenarios which cause insurance companies great concern.


you hit the nail on the head the newbies only know uber


----------



## Peter O'

DC_Uber_Lyft_Driver said:


> How do pizza delivery drivers stay insured?


carrying a ten buck pizza is a lot different than a lady with her kids


----------



## Peter O'

Desert Driver said:


> Then what?


then you pay your fine or lose your license and go to jail


----------



## Lidman

Reminds me of former Indiana Hoosiers coach Bobby Knight having a discussion with the referees.


----------



## Lidman

Peter O' said:


> then you pay your fine or lose your license and go to jail


 and you do not pass go and collect $200


----------



## Tx rides

Peter O' said:


> you hit the nail on the head the newbies only know uber


I've had a few people get really nasty with me because of my explanation. Frankly, as a non-Uber company with full coverage, I could be chock full of glee at such risks taken by these new players, but I actually want to see an open market. One which plays by fair rules, and does not cause public mistrust . I don't give these examples to piss anyone off, I provide these examples as cases explained to me by insurance executives and property managers who do have a pack of dogs in this fight. I have met numerous naive drivers who believed the UberHype yet soon learned they were at far more risk than assumed. Those on this forum who advise drivers to break rules, and lie to their insurance providers do a disservice to everyone. :-(


----------



## Tx rides

Lidman said:


> Reminds me of former Indiana Hoosiers coach Bobby Knight having a discussion with the referees.


You have to admit, Bobby mastered the art of persuasion!!! Lmao!!!


----------



## Peter O'

Lidman said:


> Reminds me of former Indiana Hoosiers coach Bobby Knight having a discussion with the referees.


nah more like woody hayes kicking a sideline marker


----------



## Peter O'

Tx rides said:


> I've had a few people get really nasty with me because of my explanation. Frankly, as a non-Uber company with full coverage, I could be chock full of glee at such risks taken by these new players, but I actually want to see an open market. One which plays by fair rules, and does not cause public mistrust . I don't give these examples to piss anyone off, I provide these examples as cases explained to me by insurance executives and property managers who do have a pack of dogs in this fight. I have met numerous naive drivers who believed the UberHype yet soon learned they were at far more risk than assumed. Those on this forum who advise drivers to break rules, and lie to their insurance providers do a disservice to everyone. :-(


newbies cant see past their smart phones

think there not driving a hack that there entrepreneurs

most of the newbies wont last a year

a drunk will puke in there prius a hero will hassle them one time to many and its all over


----------



## Tx rides

DjTim said:


> I currently have Allstate. I use a lot of my friends, as well as research to influence what I buy, and how I look at a company. My friend that had Geico - he said it was 3 or 4 years ago, he moved onto State Farm. It was around the ability to talk to someone, and filing a claim. He wouldn't go into details, but I'm sure it's the same with any company.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, Geico is on par with any mid-tier insurance company. My comment around "Uber" and Gieco being like Uber, how many pig commercials do you need to see that Geico wants you to use their "App" and really not interact with anyone. Good or bad - you choose. Geico can't touch what I have right now. Nothing against Geico, I just have a really good personal agent, and with pricing it's lower then anyone can match and at a higher coverage.I sit and talk with my Allstate agent once or twice a year. I guess it just gives me warm and fuzzies, or at least a free donut and a cup of coffee.
> 
> I think where Geico had an issue was around that 3 or 4 year ago mark. Allstate has been a staple around the Chicago area, I also have friends that work in their IT department.


Who covers your "app on"/ trolling for ride/just dropped off mode? According to Allstate , At least in every state I've read about, they won't. Or did you wisely obtain commercial coverage?


----------



## Tx rides

prdelnik666 said:


> I still can't believe everyone fell for their bs - ride sharing. There is no such a thing, doesn't exist.


It does exist, it is called carpooling. Carma is RIDESHARING. UberX is not ridesharing, it is car-for-hire, no different from my car service where we send a Lincoln out to pick someone up and take them to the airport. The difference is our drivers are fully insured 24 x 7, And licensed in permitted by the city as well. Otherwise, there is no difference, and while numerous city politicians bought the "rideshare" label, insurance providers are not quite so gullible.


----------



## Peter O'

Tx rides said:


> It does exist, it is called carpooling. Carma is RIDESHARING. UberX is not ridesharing, it is car-for-hire, no different from my car service where we send a Lincoln out to pick someone up and take them to the airport. The difference is our drivers are fully insured 24 x 7, And licensed in permitted by the city as well. Otherwise, there is no difference, and while numerous city politicians bought the "rideshare" label, insurance providers are not quite so gullible.


yer 1000% right

newbies act like they invented the hack and livery

drinkin the uber cool aid


----------



## Desert Driver

can't, not cant
they're, not there
won't, not wont
their, not there
Prius, not prius
too, not to
it's, not its

Anything else we can help you with today, Pete?


----------



## Desert Driver

Peter O' said:


> I'm a third generation cabbie.
> 
> LEO hero whatever they call themselves. Cops go after low hanging fruit if your a hack driver on the streets 10 hours a day odds are youll get hassled. Doesnt matter if your Uber Checker Yellow or gypsie.
> 
> Did you ever get out of texas
> 
> Ever hear of the hackney carriage cops, Taxi and Limousine Commission ?


Pete, you seem like every stereotype of cabbies. That's kind of cool, in a Hollywood B-movie sort of way. But, here, let me help you out a little.

you're, not your
you'll, not youll
Doesn't, not Doesnt
Texas, not texas

Also, punctuation can be a very powerful writing tool, if properly employed.

No need to thank me. I'm just here to help.


----------



## UberRey

Forgive me, Pete. I did not mean to imply that YOU were a ******. I was quoting the rank and file pax who prefer Uberx/Lyft service over a taxi service. People hate Taxi drivers' attitudes, their stench, their language, and most of all the high fares. I understand that you, as well as many of the more vocal cabbies, care for neither the customer's concerns nor for the people who have stepped up to make the service a better experience. No one is asking you to like it, but it is natural selection.


----------



## Tx rides

UberRey said:


> Forgive me, Petey. I did not mean to imply that YOU were a ******. I was quoting the rank and file pax who prefer Uberx/Lyft service over a taxi service. People hate Taxi drivers' attitudes, their stench, their language, and most of all the high fares. I understand that you, as well as many of the more vocal cabbies, care for neither the customer's concerns nor for the people who have stepped up to make the service a better experience. No one is asking you to like it, but it is natural selection.


Well in all fairness, Uber is not immune to the natural decline in the quality and increase in pricing. The surge rates have been an embarrassment to many, and there are reports every day in every city of less than desirable drivers.


----------



## UberRey

Tx rides said:


> Well in all fairness, Uber is not immune to the natural decline in the quality and increase in pricing. The surge rates have been an embarrassment to many, and there are reports every day in every city of less than desirable drivers.


I completely agree. Bitter Uber drivers are becoming the new disgruntled cabbie. I hear about it all of the time lately. Maybe someone smarter than us will discover a way to improve the experience on both ends.


----------



## Desert Driver

UberRey said:


> I completely agree. Bitter Uber drivers are becoming the new disgruntled cabbie. I hear about it all of the time lately. Maybe someone smarter than us will discover a way to improve the experience on both ends.


But to be entirely rational, if people dislike it so much, they can find some other means of income generation. I've seen many Uber drivers lately, and none of them are handcuffed to their vehicles. In the free marketplace, people can leave and re-enter employment at will.


----------



## Tx rides

UberRey said:


> I completely agree. Bitter Uber drivers are becoming the new disgruntled cabbie. I hear about it all of the time lately. Maybe someone smarter than us will discover a way to improve the experience on both ends.


I don't think so. It started on a false premise: better, faster, cheaper than a taxi. Not possible.at best, you can get two out of three, no way to have all three, not for any considerable length of time.


----------



## UberRey

Of those three things, which do cabbies do better? I can't even get the Internet to lie to me about that one.


----------



## Tx rides

UberRey said:


> Of those three things, which do cabbies do better? I can't even get the Internet to lie to me about that one.


That is irrelevant. We are talking about Uber. They planted a utopian idea which will not unfold, no matter how many ways they promote it. Drivers are not going to earn $90,000 per year, passengers are not going to get cheap rides on time with excellent customer service.

Think of the hundreds of thousands if not millions by now, of cars and cabs which have existed for hire long before TNCs. If there was a way to maximize revenue doing Cheap, short hauls of drunken bar hoppers, or having a car on every corner 24x7 to cater to every whim in a crowded city, don't you think we would All already be doing that? It takes a lot of money to have a running, saFe, nice vehicle, fully insured, ready and available, with more than a living wage for a driver, a decent dispatch system and fully staffed customer service. Smart phone technology has actually made the demand more costly in many ways.


----------



## Berliner

Tx rides said:


> I don't think so. It started on a false premise: better, faster, cheaper than a taxi. Not possible.at best, you can get two out of three, no way to have all three, not for any considerable length of time.


Yeah, and more comfortable, innovative, saftier, blablabla as a taxi. The result in Germany is "Ubertaxi", a regular cab with regular fares, orderd by another app called "Uber". Solution for a problem that never exists.


----------



## StephenJBlue

Tx rides said:


> That is irrelevant. We are talking about Uber. They planted a utopian idea which will not unfold, no matter how many ways they promote it. Drivers are not going to earn $90,000 per year, passengers are not going to get cheap rides on time with excellent customer service.
> 
> Think of the hundreds of thousands if not millions by now, of cars and cabs which have existed for hire long before TNCs. If there was a way to maximize revenue doing Cheap, short hauls of drunken bar hoppers, or having a car on every corner 24x7 to cater to every whim in a crowded city, don't you think we would All already be doing that? It takes a lot of money to have a running, saFe, nice vehicle, fully insured, ready and available, with more than a living wage for a driver, a decent dispatch system and fully staffed customer service. Smart phone technology has actually made the demand more costly in many ways.


With the proposed uber / lyft / TNC regulations in San Antonio, there will be no drivers. I agree with the need for a commercial type of insurance, but within the proposed regs is a requirement that you notify your personal insurance carrier and actually obtain documentation from them stating that they know you drive for a TNC.

That will KILL TNCs in San Antonio. Guaranteed.


----------



## DjTim

Tx rides said:


> Who covers your "app on"/ trolling for ride/just dropped off mode? According to Allstate , At least in every state I've read about, they won't. Or did you wisely obtain commercial coverage?


Why would my personal insurance not cover me driving my car? That's the whole idea of "Car insurance". To be clear I did have a discussion with my agent before signing up with Lyft first. She said if I am driving my car for personal or business (consultation services) I am covered no questions asked. If I am driving people (family related or unrelated), or in other words if I have passengers - it's going to be questioned what/where I was going, and all the other fun stuff - but I don't get my policy canceled. My agent knows I do Uber, Lyft & Sidecar - but she says it's a real gray area and just take care in/how I report things if something happens and I should always call her office first before going right to the main Allstate staff. That's what agents are there for.

I think what the point is - I had a discussion with my agent. I've been with Allstate for 11 years - same agent office, 2 different agents (first one retired). My in laws have been with this agent office for 35 years. I have home owners insurance, vehicle insurance, life insurance and a small business liability policy for my IT consulting stuff. The business policy does not cover Uber/Lyft/Sidecar, it's just for simple liability stuff like if I blow up a server or I do damage to a property.

This is by no means an advertisement for Allstate - It's just my situation and what I ended up with. Prior to Allstate, I had State Farm. I had State Farm coverage when my father, brother & I drove for a messenger service in Chicago. I dropped State Farm when my rates went up by 300 bucks because my brother had an accident unrelated to the messenger service work.


----------



## Tx rides

StrawJim said:


> With the proposed uber / lyft / TNC regulations in San Antonio, there will be no drivers. I agree with the need for a commercial type of insurance, but within the proposed regs is a requirement that you notify your personal insurance carrier and actually obtain documentation from them stating that they know you drive for a TNC.
> 
> That will KILL TNCs in San Antonio. Guaranteed.


I would think, the regulations added in California, Colorado, and I believe Arizona, that The requirement being full primary coverage during app on will be a considerable hit.

Honestly, even if I were not in the car service business, I would support such a requirement. Contrary to what many believe, I do believe the government has a vested interest in safe reliable transportation for the city.when they are marketing big events, and important factor is transportation. Will the tourists be able to get from point A to point B ? That is important in a bid for an event. Accident coverage is a big deal, tragedies get front page news, and failure to pay, or very low pay outs to victims reflect very badly.


----------



## Tx rides

DjTim said:


> Why would my personal insurance not cover me driving my car? That's the whole idea of "Car insurance". To be clear I did have a discussion with my agent before signing up with Lyft first. She said if I am driving my car for personal or business (consultation services) I am covered no questions asked. If I am driving people (family related or unrelated), or in other words if I have passengers - it's going to be questioned what/where I was going, and all the other fun stuff - but I don't get my policy canceled. My agent knows I do Uber, Lyft & Sidecar - but she says it's a real gray area and just take care in/how I report things if something happens and I should always call her office first before going right to the main Allstate staff. That's what agents are there for.
> 
> I think what the point is - I had a discussion with my agent. I've been with Allstate for 11 years - same agent office, 2 different agents (first one retired). My in laws have been with this agent office for 35 years. I have home owners insurance, vehicle insurance, life insurance and a small business liability policy for my IT consulting stuff. The business policy does not cover Uber/Lyft/Sidecar, it's just for simple liability stuff like if I blow up a server or I do damage to a property.
> 
> This is by no means an advertisement for Allstate - It's just my situation and what I ended up with. Prior to Allstate, I had State Farm. I had State Farm coverage when my father, brother & I drove for a messenger service in Chicago. I dropped State Farm when my rates went up by 300 bucks because my brother had an accident unrelated to the messenger service work.


All I know is Allstate has made public statements that they will not cover livery service. I don't know that your agent has the authority to override a written policy. I am sure you know that traveling as a consultant is very different from providing livery service. Allstate does have a clear livery exclusion policy, and I have been assured by several that any accident at the point of a drop off, or sitting in a parking lot where you are known to be picking up passengers for hire, is considered livery service. I for one would never risk this, but to each his own.


----------



## DjTim

Tx rides said:


> I would think, the regulations added in California, Colorado, and I believe Arizona, that The requirement being full primary coverage during app on will be a considerable hit.
> 
> Honestly, even if I were not in the car service business, I would support such a requirement. Contrary to what many believe, I do believe the government has a vested interest in safe reliable transportation for the city.when they are marketing big events, and important factor is transportation. Will the tourists be able to get from point A to point B ? That is important in a bid for an event. Accident coverage is a big deal, tragedies get front page news, and failure to pay, or very low pay outs to victims reflect very badly.


I think the "vested" interest depends on what city your talking about. I have no doubt that some people in government do want to protect people, the vast majority only see how they can increase their budget and take.


----------



## StephenJBlue

Tx rides said:


> I would think, the regulations added in California, Colorado, and I believe Arizona, that The requirement being full primary coverage during app on will be a considerable hit.
> 
> Honestly, even if I were not in the car service business, I would support such a requirement. Contrary to what many believe, I do believe the government has a vested interest in safe reliable transportation for the city.when they are marketing big events, and important factor is transportation. Will the tourists be able to get from point A to point B ? That is important in a bid for an event. Accident coverage is a big deal, tragedies get front page news, and failure to pay, or very low pay outs to victims reflect very badly.


My issue isn't with having insurance. It's with the inclusion of that specific requirement and how it got introduces. It is obviously designed to castrate any TNC operation in the city. The Taxi industry in our city is extremely powerful.


----------



## DjTim

Tx rides said:


> All I know is Allstate has made public statements that they will not cover livery service. I don't know that your agent has the authority to override a written policy. I am sure you know that traveling as a consultant is very different from providing livery service. Allstate does have a clear livery exclusion policy, and I have been assured by several that any accident at the point of a drop off, or sitting in a parking lot where you are known to be picking up passengers for hire, is considered livery service. I for one would never risk this, but to each his own.


So I found something really interesting. Allstate has not made a public press release stating anything about Uber or Lyft and no coverage. I doubt they would because they don't want to have a ton of people leave their insurance ranks. I can however find a ton of different taxi cab associations make press release after press release saying personal insurance doesn't cover "rideshare".

What I'm pointing to - talk with your agent. Assumptions is the mother of all...well you get where I'm going with that. Each person is responsible for their own situation right?


----------



## StephenJBlue

DjTim said:


> So I found something really interesting. Allstate has not made a public press release stating anything about Uber or Lyft and no coverage. I doubt they would because they don't want to have a ton of people leave their insurance ranks. I can however find a ton of different taxi cab associations make press release after press release saying personal insurance doesn't cover "rideshare".
> 
> What I'm pointing to - talk with your agent. Assumptions is the mother of all...well you get where I'm going with that. Each person is responsible for their own situation right?


Agreed about the assumptions. I spoke with USAA. No TNC coverage. At all. They will NOT renew your policy if they know you drive for a TNC.


----------



## DjTim

StrawJim said:


> Agreed about the assumptions. I spoke with USAA. No TNC coverage. At all. They will NOT renew your policy if they know you drive for a TNC.


And that would totally suck. I would hate for someone to lose their coverage. USAA is a good company from what I've read too.


----------



## Berliner

DjTim said:


> Why would my personal insurance not cover me driving my car?


They do. But it`s a difference between "driving to the office and back, some funtrips at the weekend and two times a year going on holiday" and "additionally cruising in the evening waiting for a ping".

Some guys understand this, some won`t and some don`t. The last ones will get their lessons. The question is not "if" but "when".


----------



## DjTim

Berliner said:


> They do. But it`s a difference between "driving to the office and back, some funtrips at the weekend and two times a year going on holiday" and "additionally cruising in the evening waiting for a ping".
> 
> Some guys understand this, some won`t and some don`t. The last ones will get their lessons. The question is not "if" but "when".


Yes. My policy is based on how many miles I drive. I've always been asked to give my current odometer reading on both my cars every 6 months. The more miles I put on, the more it costs. One thing people should always do correctly - report the miles driven. If you hide miles, too many questions get asked.


----------



## Berliner

DjTim said:


> Yes. My policy is based on how many miles I drive. I've always been asked to give my current odometer reading on both my cars every 6 months. The more miles I put on, the more it costs. One thing people should always do correctly - report the miles driven. If you hide miles, too many questions get asked.


The miles are one thing, the other thing is what do you have to insure while driving? Pancakes, friends and family, gasoline, pax, dynamite? It`s not only white or black. Ask your agent.


----------



## Tx rides

DjTim said:


> I think the "vested" interest depends on what city your talking about. I have no doubt that some people in government do want to protect people, the vast majority only see how they can increase their budget and take.


All large events are about $$$$, not just for the city government, but for businesses within the city. Boneheaded restrictions, or lack of safety ordinances can cost everyone a lot of dough if the city loses the event. Large event planners carefully weigh a city's transportation capabilities.


----------



## DjTim

Tx rides said:


> All large events are about $$$$, not just for the city government, but for businesses within the city. Boneheaded restrictions, or lack of safety ordinances can cost everyone a lot of dough if the city loses the event. Large event planners carefully weigh a city's transportation capabilities.


I have a lot of sarcasm related to government and what is god for the the city/state. When you come to Chicago, you need to have at least 2 payments in hand. One for the unions and one for the city. You miss a payment, your event won't run so "smoothly".


----------



## Tx rides

Berliner said:


> The miles are one thing, the other thing is what do you have to insure while driving? Pancakes, friends and family, gasoline, pax, dynamite? It`s not only white or black. Ask your agent.


Additionally, some places have commercial insurance requirements. For example, the airports. As do some event centers. They require this to avoid any nasty lawsuits in the event that a cab, chauffeur, or any other commercial vehicle hits someone in the parking lot, etc. Since many of these venues have some type of permitting requirements, their authorization could set them up as an extension to that provider, that is why they require extra insurance. The same applies to some hotel proprietors who do not want the extra liability of vehicles which tend to troll in front of their doors during checkout time


----------



## Tx rides

DjTim said:


> I have a lot of sarcasm related to government and what is god for the the city/state. When you come to Chicago, you need to have at least 2 payments in hand. One for the unions and one for the city. You miss a payment, your event won't run so "smoothly".


Oh, believe me, I have no undying love for most government entities. That said, even as a staunch libertarian, I do understand some requirements. We do all share the same streets, parking lots, etc. I have watched the excessive growth of SXSW in Austin. I have seen some businesses harmed, some businesses have exploded. But I do believe everyone deserves equal protection from Road closures, chaos, etc, and I do believe the city has the responsibility to ensure the most freedom and liberty for all residents and visitors, not just a handful. Fortunately, most of the regulators in Austin are tone deaf, or in the pockets of a select few.


----------



## DjTim

Tx rides said:


> Additionally, some places have commercial insurance requirements. For example, the airports. As do some event centers. They require this to avoid any nasty lawsuits in the event that a cab, chauffeur, or any other commercial vehicle hits someone in the parking lot, etc. Since many of these venues have some type of permitting requirements, their authorization could set them up as an extension to that provider, that is why they require extra insurance. The same applies to some hotel proprietors who do not want the extra liability of vehicles which tend to troll in front of their doors during checkout time


Well, if they pass the proposed legislation in Illinois on TNC, we won't be considered taxi or limos, or a car service & it covers the insurance stuff. Here's a link to the conversation starting up here: https://uberpeople.net/threads/illinois-ridesharing-bill-sails-through-legislature.8299/


----------



## Peter O'

Desert Driver said:


> can't, not cant
> they're, not there
> won't, not wont
> their, not there
> Prius, not prius
> too, not to
> it's, not its
> 
> Anything else we can help you with today, Pete?


yeah there is the note in the corner of yer stuff says

Last edited by a moderator: Today at 7:08 AM

tell me waht that means

maybe the truth is more important than punctuation


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> Forgive me, Pete. I did not mean to imply that YOU were a ******. I was quoting the rank and file pax who prefer Uberx/Lyft service over a taxi service. People hate Taxi drivers' attitudes, their stench, their language, and most of all the high fares. I understand that you, as well as many of the more vocal cabbies, care for neither the customer's concerns nor for the people who have stepped up to make the service a better experience. No one is asking you to like it, but it is natural selection.


yeah and i dont think that all cops and fireman take a disability retiremet SS disabilty moved out of state and got a gig woking off the books to milk the system

but it happens all the time see alot of it here in boston

guess theres more than one kind of attitude and stink behind the wheel when an off the books hero drives a hack

you keep talking about high fares you get what you pay for during the thanksgiving week snow in beantown i made 500 bucks off the surge in one night

guess the surge aint high fares its good old natural selection


----------



## Tx rides

DjTim said:


> Well, if they pass the proposed legislation in Illinois on TNC, we won't be considered taxi or limos, or a car service & it covers the insurance stuff. Here's a link to the conversation starting up here: https://uberpeople.net/threads/illinois-ridesharing-bill-sails-through-legislature.8299/


Well, that just shows you how ridiculous this is, and how moronic our legislators are. Of course It is a car service , it is a vehicle for hire. That is one of the dumbest things I've read today. It is almost comical, considering that the next section refers to fares charged for the service.


----------



## Peter O'

DjTim said:


> Why would my personal insurance not cover me driving my car? That's the whole idea of "Car insurance". To be clear I did have a discussion with my agent before signing up with Lyft first. She said if I am driving my car for personal or business (consultation services) I am covered no questions asked. If I am driving people (family related or unrelated), or in other words if I have passengers - it's going to be questioned what/where I was going, and all the other fun stuff - but I don't get my policy canceled. My agent knows I do Uber, Lyft & Sidecar - but she says it's a real gray area and just take care in/how I report things if something happens and I should always call her office first before going right to the main Allstate staff. That's what agents are there for.
> 
> I think what the point is - I had a discussion with my agent. I've been with Allstate for 11 years - same agent office, 2 different agents (first one retired). My in laws have been with this agent office for 35 years. I have home owners insurance, vehicle insurance, life insurance and a small business liability policy for my IT consulting stuff. The business policy does not cover Uber/Lyft/Sidecar, it's just for simple liability stuff like if I blow up a server or I do damage to a property.
> 
> This is by no means an advertisement for Allstate - It's just my situation and what I ended up with. Prior to Allstate, I had State Farm. I had State Farm coverage when my father, brother & I drove for a messenger service in Chicago. I dropped State Farm when my rates went up by 300 bucks because my brother had an accident unrelated to the messenger service work.


sounds like yer agent is more worried about losing her commission than keeping you out of jail

telling you to shade the facts in an accident is insurance fraud


----------



## Berliner

Tx rides said:


> Additionally, some places have commercial insurance requirements. For example, the airports. As do some event centers. They require this to avoid any nasty lawsuits in the event that a cab, chauffeur, or any other commercial vehicle hits someone in the parking lot, etc. Since many of these venues have some type of permitting requirements, their authorization could set them up as an extension to that provider, that is why they require extra insurance. The same applies to some hotel proprietors who do not want the extra liability of vehicles which tend to troll in front of their doors during checkout time


You know this, I know this. But there are a lot of guys living in a cloud.


----------



## Peter O'

Tx rides said:


> Additionally, some places have commercial insurance requirements. For example, the airports. As do some event centers. They require this to avoid any nasty lawsuits in the event that a cab, chauffeur, or any other commercial vehicle hits someone in the parking lot, etc. Since many of these venues have some type of permitting requirements, their authorization could set them up as an extension to that provider, that is why they require extra insurance. The same applies to some hotel proprietors who do not want the extra liability of vehicles which tend to troll in front of their doors during checkout time


ya gotta wonder how long its gonna be till the stuff hits the fan with all these newbies cruising around staring at there phones and gps

given how many new drivers are on the streets it wont be long and when it happens uber lyft will come up with a dozen reasons why its all on the driver

i feel sorry for these guys there clueless


----------



## Desert Driver

Peter O' said:


> yeah there is the note in the corner of yer stuff says
> 
> Last edited by a moderator: Today at 7:08 AM
> 
> tell me waht that means
> 
> maybe the truth is more important than punctuation


No need to thank me. I'm here to help.


----------



## Desert Driver

Peter O' said:


> ya gotta wonder how long its gonna be till the stuff hits the fan with all these newbies cruising around staring at there phones and gps
> 
> given how many new drivers are on the streets it wont be long and when it happens uber lyft will come up with a dozen reasons why its all on the driver
> 
> i feel sorry for these guys there clueless


until, not till
their, not there


----------



## UberRey

Desert Driver said:


> until, not till
> their, not there


You deserve a medal for interpreting this guy. I'm getting PTSD trying to read it.


Peter O' said:


> yeah and i dont think that all cops and fireman take a disability retiremet SS disabilty moved out of state and got a gig woking off the books to milk the system
> 
> but it happens all the time see alot of it here in boston
> 
> guess theres more than one kind of attitude and stink behind the wheel when an off the books hero drives a hack
> 
> you keep talking about high fares you get what you pay for during the thanksgiving week snow in beantown i made 500 bucks off the surge in one night
> 
> guess the surge aint high fares its good old natural selection


I'm guessing there's an insult in there somewhere... Bah. It's not worth the effort. Best of luck to you in all your endeavors. I think.


----------



## Peter O'

Desert Driver said:


> No need to thank me. I'm here to help.


so yer telling me that yer a moderator here

thats why yer stuff says its moderated

ok


----------



## Lidman

I'm not sure how the subject started with geico and somehow cops, firemen, ss, attitude and stink got thrown in the mix. Fascinating stuff.


----------



## Peter O'

UberRey said:


> You deserve a medal for interpreting this guy. I'm getting PTSD trying to read it.
> 
> I'm guessing there's an insult in there somewhere... Bah. It's not worth the effort. Best of luck to you in all your endeavors. I think.


whats ptsd

is it a welfare benefit or something

just askin


----------



## Desert Driver

Look, let's be honest and realistic about what's going on here. The rideshare transportation model has another 18 to 24 months of life in this country unless something dramatic happens in terms of insurance. The personal insurance providers are scared shitless of their insureds driving for ridesharing companies and are taking every opportunity to drop those drivers that they know are doing so. And if they're not dropping then, then they're denying coverage for mishaps while driving. We also know that the Uber insurance kicks in only after you've hired an army of lawyers to go to bat for you. And for those of us who've done the research, we know that commercial insurance is not a viable alternative either. In most cases, moving from personal insurance to commercial insurance with the same limits is about ten times the rate. In my case, the commercial rate was 894% more than my personal rate. So, I've simply made the decision not to get into any wrecks that are my fault. Now, as soon as there are more than a couple tragedies with rideshare drivers and their passengers or peds, the feces is going to collide with the air dispersing apparatus and something will have to happen. But because the insurance lobby is the second most powerful lobby in DC, it's not likely the Ubers and Lyfts of the world will prevail. And when the auto insurance carriers become more vocal and start running PSAs about the dangers of riding in rideshare vehicles because virtually none of the drivers are properly insured, that'll be the end of Uber, Lyft, Sidecar, et. al. Think about it - there's virtually no other way this can go. Do you really think the major insurance carriers are just going to say, "OK. You win. We'll cover you even if you do kill the stranger in the backseat?" Not bloody likely. The more likely response will be, "Look, we'll be happy to provide you with commercial insurance. However, your annual premium is going to go from $494 to $4678. If you don't like it, then **** off!"

And that's precisely where this is going. Conceptually, Uber and Lyft are onto a beautiful model. But given the current environment, that model is simply not sustainable. And when the model collapses, the Uber, Lyft, and Sidecar riders are going to have to climb back into Peter O's smelly, dirty taxi cab.

Any questions?


----------



## Lidman

I think it's short for potato salad.


----------



## Peter O'

Lidman said:


> I'm not sure how the subject started with geico and somehow cops, firemen, ss, attitude and stink got thrown in the mix. Fascinating stuff.


yeah i dont know either something about some driver being a retired leo whatever that is and then bad mouthing taxi drivers

why do the newbies wanna act so special

were all just driving a hack trying to make a buck

we aint gonna change the world


----------



## Desert Driver

Peter O' said:


> yeah i dont know either something about some driver being a retired leo whatever that is and then bad mouthing taxi drivers
> 
> why do the newbies wanna act so special
> 
> were all just driving a hack trying to make a buck
> 
> we aint gonna change the world


LEO = Law Enforcement Officer

For the record, the newbies don't think they're special. They're just trying to figure out the ropes for making a few bucks driving. It's not rocket science, but what's wrong with helping us new folks out? Many of us are highly educated and are very quick learners.


----------



## Desert Driver

Peter O' said:


> so yer telling me that yer a moderator here
> 
> thats why yer stuff says its moderated
> 
> ok


10-4


----------



## Peter O'

Lidman said:


> I think it's short for potato salad.


im a baked beans guy myself comes with being from boston

like your picture you still in argentina or did you move back to the city


----------



## Lidman

Maybe not as individuals we won't but UBER as a whole has spread all over the world. Even the Russians are in awe.


----------



## Lidman

Peter O' said:


> im a baked beans guy myself comes with being from boston
> 
> like your picture you still in argentina or did you move back to the city


 I ended up somewhere near Chicago.


----------



## Tx rides

Peter O' said:


> ya gotta wonder how long its gonna be till the stuff hits the fan with all these newbies cruising around staring at there phones and gps
> 
> given how many new drivers are on the streets it wont be long and when it happens uber lyft will come up with a dozen reasons why its all on the driver
> 
> i feel sorry for these guys there clueless


I don't think it will ever collectively hit the fan. Incidents will occur systematically all over the world, but mostly, people will not care. There will be countless new companies using the same model, and regulators will never be able to put this milk back into the little cup!!!


----------



## Peter O'

Lidman said:


> Maybe not as individuals we won't but UBER as a whole has spread all over the world. Even the Russians are in awe.


russians are in awe now

dam i was hoping crimea would keep putin happy for at least a couple of years

i got relatives in awe hope there ok


----------



## Peter O'

Lidman said:


> I ended up somewhere near Chicago.


yer picture says north carolina

long commute


----------



## Lidman

I wonder if there will eventually be a UBER Airlines. Amtrack becomes UberTrack. etc.


----------



## Peter O'

Tx rides said:


> I don't think it will ever collectively hit the fan. Incidents will occur systematically all over the world, but mostly, people will not care. There will be countless new companies using the same model, and regulators will never be able to put this milk back into the little cup!!!


dont care about the world only the us of a

dont care about collectively

one newbie plowing over kids in a school crosswalk with his hack and no commercial insurance is all that it will take

one thing can tip it look at ferguson cleveland nyc


----------



## Peter O'

Lidman said:


> I wonder if there will eventually be a UBER Airlines. Amtrack becomes UberTrack. etc.


uber souper maybe

in the city

gotta go got a hail hope its to logan


----------



## Desert Driver

Tx rides said:


> I don't think it will ever collectively hit the fan. Incidents will occur systematically all over the world, but mostly, people will not care. There will be countless new companies using the same model, and regulators will never be able to put this milk back into the little cup!!!


Can't put the genie back in the bottle, can we? However, the insurance lobby in DC may very well kill the rideshare genie.


----------



## Tx rides

Peter O' said:


> dont care about the world only the us of a
> 
> dont care about collectively
> 
> one newbie plowing over kids in a school crosswalk with his hack and no commercial insurance is all that it will take
> 
> one thing can tip it look at ferguson cleveland nyc


There have been countless accidents, cabs, limos, TNCs, The public only cares for 15 minutes, then they move on to the next shiny object on cable news.most cities had an opportunity to do something to prevent these catastrophes, or at least strongly discourage them. In most cases, the city regulators have opted to ignore it.

In Austin for example, they could have required that drivers become permitted just like all other chauffeurs, so at least a bad driver could get blackballed for other companies. But our city Council wanted to be cool and progressive. So they ignored the actions taken by other cities like Houston. However, even in Houston, the streets are full of unpermitted Uber drivers, because who's going to stop them? Uber is not stopping them.Sure, you may get some random stops, but there will never be enough enforcement to stop this. Accidents will happen, drivers will lose their insurance, and life will go on, and as long as drunks can get a ride for cheap, and politicians get social media kudos,, no one will care.


----------



## Desert Driver

Lidman said:


> I'm not sure how the subject started with geico and somehow cops, firemen, ss, attitude and stink got thrown in the mix. Fascinating stuff.


I would like a large lobster bisque, please.


----------



## Desert Driver

Tx rides said:


> There have been countless accidents, cabs, limos, TNCs, The public only cares for 15 minutes, then they move on to the next shiny object on cable news.most cities had an opportunity to do something to prevent these catastrophes, or at least strongly discourage them. In most cases, the city regulators have opted to ignore it.
> 
> In Austin for example, they could have required that drivers become permitted just like all other chauffeurs, so at least a bad driver could get blackballed for other companies. But our city Council wanted to be cool and progressive. So they ignored the actions taken by other cities like Houston. However, even in Houston, the streets are full of unpermitted Uber drivers, because who's going to stop them? Uber is not stopping them.Sure, you may get some random stops, but there will never be enough enforcement to stop this. Accidents will happen, drivers will lose their insurance, and life will go on, and as long as drunks can get a ride for cheap, and politicians get social media kudos,, no one will care.


Time out! What does TNC stand for? Yes, I'm fairly new here.


----------



## Lidman

is


Tx rides said:


> There have been countless accidents, cabs, limos, TNCs, The public only cares for 15 minutes, then they move on to the next shiny object on cable news.most cities had an opportunity to do something to prevent these catastrophes, or at least strongly discourage them. In most cases, the city regulators have opted to ignore it.
> 
> In Austin for example, they could have required that drivers become permitted just like all other chauffeurs, so at least a bad driver could get blackballed for other companies. But our city Council wanted to be cool and progressive. So they ignored the actions taken by other cities like Houston. However, even in Houston, the streets are full of unpermitted Uber drivers, because who's going to stop them? Uber is not stopping them.Sure, you may get some random stops, but there will never be enough enforcement to stop this. Accidents will happen, drivers will lose their insurance, and life will go on, and as long as drunks can get a ride for cheap, and politicians get social media kudos,, no one will care.


 is uber and lyft popular in san Antonio?


----------



## Kaz

I just got off the phone with an attorney who is familiar with UBER. He says if we can't find a commercial policy to cover us, dont do it. And yes your insurance company has the right to cancel you if they find out. AS long as you dont have any claims filed, then you find another carrier and stop UBERING. If you have filed a claim for an accident, stolen vehicle, whatever and your insurance company paid out, and they find out you were using your vehicle for UBERING (even if the accident occurs while you're NOT Ubering), they can retroactively deny your claim and go after you. The attorney says it's unlikely they'll be doing stakeouts to find out, but if they determine you falsified anything or violated the terms of your insurance, it won't end really well. And an LLC won't necessarily protect you UNLESS your vehicle is registered to the LLC and to UBER both. So I may be hanging this up until I can purchase another vehicle solely for taxi-ing and taking out a commercial policy with a partner. Right now for a few hours a week its not worth the risk. I told the attorney I cannot find an affordable policy here to cover me both personally and commercially and that this is just a part-time gig. He advised I stop. I was hoping to continue until the end of the year but damn.


----------



## Tx rides

Lidman said:


> is is uber and lyft popular in san Antonio?


They seem to be operating widely. But it is hard to define "popular"-when it is extremely cheap, the younger crowd, and the poor crowd will love it. Surge the rates.... not so popular. Don't surge the rates, good luck getting a driver to take on San Antonio traffic. Same here in Austin.


----------



## Lidman

For some reason I thought San Antonio would be in such huge demand, with all the sporting events, rodeos, etc.


----------



## StephenJBlue

Lidman said:


> For some reason I thought San Antonio would be in such huge demand, with all the sporting events, rodeos, etc.


San Antonio was doing "okay" for a while. Not a huge amount of business but some. Remember, San Antonio is large, but it's about 10 years behind the times and fairly provincial.

Recently, a bunch of new drivers for both uber and Lyft have come onboard. Mostly cabbies from Somalia. So, same number of trips, and at least double the number of drivers. We are hurting here.


----------



## Peter O'

Tx rides said:


> There have been countless accidents, cabs, limos, TNCs, The public only cares for 15 minutes, then they move on to the next shiny object on cable news.most cities had an opportunity to do something to prevent these catastrophes, or at least strongly discourage them. In most cases, the city regulators have opted to ignore it.
> 
> In Austin for example, they could have required that drivers become permitted just like all other chauffeurs, so at least a bad driver could get blackballed for other companies. But our city Council wanted to be cool and progressive. So they ignored the actions taken by other cities like Houston. However, even in Houston, the streets are full of unpermitted Uber drivers, because who's going to stop them? Uber is not stopping them.Sure, you may get some random stops, but there will never be enough enforcement to stop this. Accidents will happen, drivers will lose their insurance, and life will go on, and as long as drunks can get a ride for cheap, and politicians get social media kudos,, no one will care.


lawsuits is what will stop it

yer kid gets hit you sue everybody

couple of nebies go bust cause of no insurance and all those shiny new priuses will get parked

cities aint ignoring it there just slow to act until something happens


----------



## DjTim

Desert Driver said:


> LEO = Law Enforcement Officer
> 
> For the record, the newbies don't think they're special. They're just trying to figure out the ropes for making a few bucks driving. It's not rocket science, but what's wrong with helping us new folks out? Many of us are highly educated and are very quick learners.


yup. I think some of us get sucked into the arguments - and your right, its not fair to the folks who just are looking for a decent resource.


----------



## Desert Driver

Kaz said:


> I just got off the phone with an attorney who is familiar with UBER. He says if we can't find a commercial policy to cover us, dont do it. And yes your insurance company has the right to cancel you if they find out. AS long as you dont have any claims filed, then you find another carrier and stop UBERING. If you have filed a claim for an accident, stolen vehicle, whatever and your insurance company paid out, and they find out you were using your vehicle for UBERING (even if the accident occurs while you're NOT Ubering), they can retroactively deny your claim and go after you. The attorney says it's unlikely they'll be doing stakeouts to find out, but if they determine you falsified anything or violated the terms of your insurance, it won't end really well. And an LLC won't necessarily protect you UNLESS your vehicle is registered to the LLC and to UBER both. So I may be hanging this up until I can purchase another vehicle solely for taxi-ing and taking out a commercial policy with a partner. Right now for a few hours a week its not worth the risk. I told the attorney I cannot find an affordable policy here to cover me both personally and commercially and that this is just a part-time gig. He advised I stop. I was hoping to continue until the end of the year but damn.


Like you, Kaz, I'm going to hang up the Uber cleats after I finance holiday gifts purely with cash. It's just too risky.


----------



## Tx rides

Lidman said:


> For some reason I thought San Antonio would be in such huge demand, with all the sporting events, rodeos, etc.


I wouldn't set high expectations for rodeo work. Tough nuts to crack!!!


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## Tx rides

Peter O' said:


> lawsuits is what will stop it
> 
> yer kid gets hit you sue everybody
> 
> couple of nebies go bust cause of no insurance and all those shiny new priuses will get parked
> 
> cities aint ignoring it there just slow to act until something happens


City councils held the cards before either of these companies were running wide open. Many are on record saying they don't have the will to enforce their laws. It would take a significant number of newsworthy tragedies per city to change that, and that is unlikely. It is more probable that the TNCS will go broke than hundreds of reported accidents will occur to effect new, enforced laws.


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## Roman Zhovtulia

Has anyone seen this:
(sorry, this site won't let me post links):

So far, three states — California, Oregon and Washington — have passed laws stating that insurance companies can’t drop customers solely for car-sharing. 

Bill AB 1871


The new law makes clear that personal vehicle sharing does not constitute a commercial use of the vehicle. The law also makes sure that the individual car owner is not held liable for losses that arise when the vehicle is used for personal vehicle sharing.


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## Older Chauffeur

Roman Zhovtulia said:


> Has anyone seen this:
> (sorry, this site won't let me post links):
> 
> So far, three states - California, Oregon and Washington - have passed laws stating that insurance companies can't drop customers solely for car-sharing.
> 
> Bill AB 1871
> 
> The new law makes clear that personal vehicle sharing does not constitute a commercial use of the vehicle. The law also makes sure that the individual car owner is not held liable for losses that arise when the vehicle is used for personal vehicle sharing.


I believe that law was intended for vehicle sharing, not ridesharing. It was written in 2010, possibly before Uber/Lyft came on the sce in CA. It has language to the effect that it would not apply in cases in which vehicle owners received more in compensation for use of their cars than the actual costs of operating those cars.
That's my interpretation, but I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on tv.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_1851-1900/ab_1871_bill_20100929_chaptered.html


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## TaroTeaFan

How much would it cost you if you want to add ride-sharing with Geico? Geico does provide ridesharing in WA:
https://www.geico.com/information/a...faq/#where_is_ridesharing_insurance_available


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## CanadianUberMan

grams777 said:


> I'm pretty sure vehicle sharing refers to services such as relay rides where you list your car for other to rent it out.
> 
> Uber would be some thing different related to livery, taxi, transporting passengers for compensation (except carpool), or vehicle for hire. It should be excluded in the policy too.


but by definition it's not that........ 
ride·shar·ing
_noun_
US
noun: *ridesharing*

an arrangement in which a passenger travels in a private vehicle driven by its owner, for free for a fee, especially as arranged by means of a website or app.


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## tmart

Roogy said:


> Just started driving a little over a week ago. Have done about 15 trips. I was examing my insurance policy with Geico and in a section called "Important Notice" there was this statement: "There is no coverage under this policy for any motor vehicle that is operated, maintained or used as part of any personal vehicle sharing facilitated by any personal vehicle sharing program."
> 
> So I called Geico and the rep said my policy is still good, but could be void if I continue to drive for Uber, and she recommended I hold off while their underwriters send me a questionnaire.
> 
> I was only planning to drive maybe 5 hours a week so I'm going to stop for now. Commercial insurance doesn't make sense for my situation and I don't want to get voided over a $100-150 hr/week side job.
> 
> Anyone else have Geico and dealt with this?


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## AuxCordBoston

Nice. 
The resurrector of old threads strikes again!!


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## Gtown Driver

Desert Driver said:


> Time out! What does TNC stand for? Yes, I'm fairly new here.


Transportation Network Company. Kinda like how ISP means whoever provides you internet. Electronic for hire service etc.

I'm coasting on standard insurance and will probably switch to what's supposed to be a pretty cheap rideshare insurance after a few months. I like having to pay way way less than near 400 dollars for insurance and somehow what I was paying before with rideshare was still way cheaper than some of the crazy stuff I'm hearing.


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