# Uber - take the high road and put a geofence around high schools and build an age question into the algorithm!!



## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It’d be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Isn't one strategy to just sit there and collect the cancel fees for a while? The only legit reason for them not to is for the teachers.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Won't ever happen.


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## GreatWhiteHope (Sep 18, 2018)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


uber - take the moral high road

Ha
HaHa
HaHaHa
HaHaHaHa
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Good one sir you made me laugh


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

You do this yourself friend. You should know the schools in your area and be able to spot that request coming in...if not after you accept every request. Check the destination on google maps to make sure you know where your picking someone up instead of going in there blind.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Drivers need to ask for ID.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Schools out! Sounds like a good time for a lunch break.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


...yes...with so many things that could potentially go wrong.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


If they're minors don't do it. Straight from Rohit's mouth


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Yeah, they ain’t gonna do that. Too much of a cash cow despite the rules.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Why? There's rich shufflin' pickins to be had around schools at closing time.

Besides that, kids would obviously just walk away from the school until they were outside the geofence and request from there. Kids aren't smart enough to know that a ping from a school will be a child; we want to keep them all requesting from schools for easy identification.


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Nah. They want to take the pax money and then create plausible deniability about you doing the ride you shouldnt do. It is working just the way they intend.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Not my fight, not my problem.

Per Uber's TOS I will happily collect $4 shuffles in the meantime, if the school is real close.

Not worth the time to brainstorm about this.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

And... You know that all high school students are underage??

I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.

It's not my job to ask.


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## Terri Lee (Jun 23, 2016)

CJfrom619 said:


> You should know the schools in your area...


Thanks for telling me what I should know.

I'm sure there are many hundreds of schools in my area.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Terri Lee said:


> Thanks for telling me what I should know.
> 
> I'm sure there are many hundreds of schools in my area.


Yeah really. My area is the fourth largest city in the country. I have no idea how many schools there are in the Houston Independent School District. Or the other school systems that are also within the city limits.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


Actually it is.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

VanGuy said:


> Isn't one strategy to just sit there and collect the cancel fees for a while? The only legit reason for them not to is for the teachers.


I've picked up teachers, coaches, parents, maintenance workers at schools. And dozens and dozens of cancellation fees.

Geo fencing would not work


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


....that can lead to deactivation if the rider is a minor. Duh!


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


The ignorance of so many drivers still astonishes me. It's drivers like you that make it so difficult for the rest of us who constantly hear "this has never been a problem before".

Do you really not understand that should there be an accident not only will the ride share company fire you but since you violated the Terms you have no insurance? So you will be personally paying all the hospital bills of that kid, car damage, and any litigation that is sure to be filed. For the rest of your life.

How do you not know this?


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

CJfrom619 said:


> You do this yourself friend. You should know the schools in your area and be able to spot that request coming in...if not after you accept every request. Check the destination on google maps to make sure you know where your picking someone up instead of going in there blind.


I'm able to spot a school, but once I've taken the ride I'm going there to get my cancel fee, and if they are dumb enough to order again and I get the ping I'm going to take it as well and get yet another cancel fee... They want to learn one minor at a time so be it....



Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


Nope I don't know.. but I know how to ask for ID and I know how to get my cancel fee when they don't want to show it...


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Demon said:


> Actually it is.


But shouldn't be.
Well, I suppose it's OK, as long as Uber takes its percentage.
They know there's more than enough desperates (and others) that they'll eventually get their cut from one of them.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


It's October. Most all students, even seniors, won't turn 18 until January at the earliest in nearly every instance.. The only way a high school student would be 18 this time of year is if they were set back a year or some very unusual circumstances. You really willing to risk everything and face financial disaster with these odds?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> Actually it is.


Show me where it's my responsibility to police that.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it's my responsibility to police that.


Uber's lawyers will probably be happy to put something forward in that regard, however implausible.
Even though, as usual, Uber has failed to properly screen ALL those participating on the platform.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Terri Lee said:


> Thanks for telling me what I should know.
> 
> I'm sure there are many hundreds of schools in my area.


Your welcome. Its much easier then you think. I also gave you an alternative option.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it's my responsibility to police that.


Post #10.



Lowestformofwit said:


> Uber's lawyers will probably be happy to put something forward in that regard, however implausible.
> Even though, as usual, Uber has failed to properly screen ALL those participating on the platform.


It's not Uber or Lyft's job to do that.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

And monetary penalty against a rider would be gamed so hard its not even funny. I mean drivers took the clean up fee and gamed that. 

This is ripe for a class action by IC's against Uber. Uber has a duty to vette riders age and they simply are not. But a driver would need to show harm/loss before proceeding.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

NOXDriver said:


> And monetary penalty against a rider would be gamed so hard its not even funny. I mean drivers took the clean up fee and gamed that.
> 
> This is ripe for a class action by IC's against Uber. Uber has a duty to vette riders age and they simply are not. But a driver would need to show harm/loss before proceeding.


You'd lose.


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## JLaw1719 (Apr 11, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


You jump all over me for saying I wear a single ear bud and then I come across this from you? Yeah that's not only playing it safe, it's also not being extremely foolish...

Guess you haven't learned all there is to know after the 500 ride threshold.


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it's my responsibility to police that.


I think it would be better to let the court that you get sued in for having no insurance coverage due to driving a minor would do a better job of showing you your responsibility... To the tune of 50,000-$100,000 lawsuit.

And I promise ignorance of them being a minor will not protect you.. just ask for ID it takes seconds... And covers your @$$. They don't wanna show it cancel and collect $5 chances are that's more than the fare was anyway...


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> It's not my job to ask.


Uber told you that you are not allowed to transport unoccupied minors. It is absolutely your responsibility to make sure you don't. ,



Lowestformofwit said:


> But shouldn't be.


Why not?

If you worked in a liquor store its your responsibility to make sure you don't sell to anyone under 21.

Same if you are a bartender.

If you woked at 7-11 its your responsibility to make sure you dont sell ciggarettes to minors.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Uber told you that you are not allowed to transport unoccupied minors. It is absolutely your responsibility to make sure you don't. ,
> 
> Why not?
> 
> ...


That sounds very much like an employee's responsibilities.
Oh....wait...
Contractually, however, Uber has accepted money (or the prospect of it) from a minor, and subcontracted the work related to it to a driver.
So, if Uber doesn't want the risk of transporting minors, who should have rejected the initial request for the job?
Uber.
In Australia, at least, a contract with a minor is not valid.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> If you worked in a liquor store its your responsibility to make sure you don't sell to anyone under 21.
> 
> Same if you are a bartender.
> 
> If you woked at 7-11 its your responsibility to make sure you dont sell ciggarettes to minors.


Because those are the LAW. Driving for a minor as a Uber driver is not illegal.



JLaw1719 said:


> You jump all over me for saying I wear a single ear bud and then I come across this from you? Yeah that's not only playing it safe, it's also not being extremely foolish...


I am not impressed by your logic.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Because those are the LAW. Driving for a minor as a Uber driver is not illegal.
> 
> 
> I am not impressed by your logic.


You'll have to show the law that says a bartender must check ID. They check because it's their job.



Lowestformofwit said:


> That sounds very much like an employee's responsibilities.
> Oh....wait...
> Contractually, however, Uber has accepted money (or the prospect of it) from a minor, and subcontracted the work related to it to a driver.
> So, if Uber doesn't want the risk of transporting minors, who should have rejected the initial request for the job?
> ...


Not valid in the US either. Kind of solidifies the point that you should be checking ID's and denying them rides.


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## Terri Lee (Jun 23, 2016)

CJfrom619 said:


> Your welcome. Its much easier then you think.


English is a bit more difficult than you think. But keep at it.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Terri Lee said:


> English is a bit more difficult than you think. But keep at it.


?? My English is Fine there Profesor!;"


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## MuchoMiles (Sep 16, 2019)

What’s amazing is how many sneak in the car, then low & behold they are going to school (after hours or some kind of magnet school). 

————-

But for pick ups at school, I ask if they are 18. Most tell the truth & say no. 

For the ones who are 18, they seem to be offended ...then you are possibly being set up for “fake” accusations or the great 1 Star. 

Depends on my day, I can play shuffle or just cancel it. Especially when it’s a pool for Shanequa or Jameel 


BUT IN MY OPINION....KIDS ARE DANGEROUS & I WOULD RATHER NEVER HAVE THEM IN MY RIDE. 

HUGE TURN OFF !!!


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> those are the LAW. Driving for a minor as a Uber driver is not illegal.


So what? Im not impressed with your logic.



Lowestformofwit said:


> That sounds very much like an employee's responsibilities


Or a contractor's responsibility. Just because you're not an "employee " doesnt mean the terms of service contract you agreed to do dont apply.

You're responsible for wjo gets into your car, period.

You can be held accountable for breaking the tos.

Why would your status maleba difference?

What a silly rebutal, not as silly as this
But silly nonetheless 


Christinebitg said:


> Because those are the LAW. Driving for a minor as a Uber driver is not illegal.





Lowestformofwit said:


> Contractually, however, Uber has accepted money (or the prospect of it) from a minor, and subcontracted the work related to it to a driver.
> So, if Uber doesn't want the risk of transporting minors, who should have rejected the initial request for the job?


Lets say one nigjt after a few tooamy cocktails you go online to some dating site / hook up app. where one must be 18 to have an account. You get to chatting with someone, hit it off and end up having sex an hour later.

As you sober up you realize this person looks really young. Turns out this person is 15.

Whose fault is it?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> You'll have to show the law that says a bartender must check ID. They check because it's their job.


THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO SERVE ALCOHOL TO A MINOR.

THERE IS **NO** SUCH LAW REGARDING DRIVING A MINOR IN YOUR CAR.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO SERVE ALCOHOL TO A MINOR.
> 
> THERE IS **NO** SUCH LAW REGARDING DRIVING A MINOR IN YOUR CAR.


If you're willing to take on that liability, go for it. Sometimes common sense and good judgement are to be considered as well as laws that are on the books.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Lowestformofwit said:


> That sounds very much like an employee's responsibilities.
> Oh....wait...
> Contractually, however, Uber has accepted money (or the prospect of it) from a minor, and subcontracted the work related to it to a driver.
> So, if Uber doesn't want the risk of transporting minors, who should have rejected the initial request for the job?
> ...


And you get the money to cancel. It's really that simple



Christinebitg said:


> THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO SERVE ALCOHOL TO A MINOR.
> 
> THERE IS **NO** SUCH LAW REGARDING DRIVING A MINOR IN YOUR CAR.


And I won't stop you.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO SERVE ALCOHOL TO A MINOR.
> 
> THERE IS **NO** SUCH LAW REGARDING DRIVING A MINOR IN YOUR CAR.


No not a law but it is a policy in the terms of service in which YOU agreed to abide.

What are you confused about?

Uber doesnt control who gets into your car, you do.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> As you sober up you realize this person looks really young. Turns out this person is 15.
> 
> Whose fault is it?


Possibly both parties - the "end user" and the provider for not screening their advertised product.
Pretty much what I'm saying about Uber allowing minors on their platform initially.
As the ride provider, you are breaching the Driver Agreement by transporting them. 
Both you and Uber have an obligation is what I'm saying.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

One being a law and ine beimg a policy is irrelevant. You are responsible to male sire no minors ride alone in your car just the same as the bartender is responsible making sure he does not serve minors

The only difference is the consequences.

I think you understamd the comparison and are just being being argumentative for the hell of it.

I personally dont give a rats ass if you drive underage kids but to say it not your responsibility to check IDs or ask age is just ignorant.


Christinebitg said:


> THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO SERVE ALCOHOL TO A MINOR.
> 
> THERE IS **NO** SUCH LAW REGARDING DRIVING A MINOR IN YOUR CAR.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Uber doesn't care if we take minors. If they did, they wouldn't send us ride requests for them.
They just put it in their TOS as a CYA.
If they could figure out a way to stop underage rides (and I doubt they could), they would't do it because they'll lose way too much revenue.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


 Surely you jest??
Doing that would mean Uber (et al) doing logical and sensible things.
And we already know how they are at doing logical and sensible things. :smiles:


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Does anyone no of a driver being deactivated for taking under age riders?

I made it a practice not too, but that’s me


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> The only difference is the consequences.


And the difference in those consequences is huge.

If you serve alcohol to someone under 21, you are subject to criminal prosecution.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> The ignorance of so many drivers still astonishes me. It's drivers like you that make it so difficult for the rest of us who constantly hear "this has never been a problem before".
> 
> Do you really not understand that should there be an accident not only will the ride share company fire you but since you violated the Terms you have no insurance? So you will be personally paying all the hospital bills of that kid, car damage, and any litigation that is sure to be filed. For the rest of your life.
> 
> How do you not know this?


The "you're driving without insurance" myth has been floating around the board as long as I've been posting here... which is four years now. I'm hardly ignorant of the issue.

Unless you card everybody who gets in your vehicle, you could pick up a minor anywhere. I once picked up a young lady and she just happened to mention during the trip that she had just turned 16. She easily passed for early 20s.



BigRedDriver said:


> Does anyone no of a driver being deactivated for taking under age riders?


I've never even heard a story of a minor being a problem. It's all mythology.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


Because if you get in an accident with them in your car Neither Goober nor Gryft will cover you. That 17 yo young man gets a broken neck in your car. You are responsible for either his care the rest of his life, OR fronting the legal costs of defending yourself!



Coachman said:


> The "you're driving without insurance" myth has been floating around the board as long as I've been posting here... which is four years now. I'm hardly ignorant of the issue.
> 
> Unless you card everybody who gets in your vehicle, you could pick up a minor anywhere. I once picked up a young lady and she just happened to mention during the trip that she had just turned 16. She easily passed for early 20s.
> 
> ...


A Myth like you can't catch Hiv from oral sex?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Amos69 said:


> Because if you get in an accident with them in your car Neither Goober nor Gryft will cover you. That 17 yo young man gets a broken neck in your car. You are responsible for either his care the rest of his life, OR fronting the legal costs of defending yourself!


Any passenger can sue you and own your life. You think you're safe because the pax is 18+?


> A Myth like you can't catch Hiv from oral sex?


A myth in the sense of something that is widely believed but has no evidence to substantiate it.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Any passenger can sue you and own your life. You think you're safe because the pax is 18+?
> 
> A myth in the sense of something that is widely believed but has no evidence to substantiate it.


No passenger can own my life. I operate as an LLC that has no assets. Only credits and debits.

Your stance is that all passengers are insured equally.

Minor passengers are uninsured.

Hope that helps


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Alcohol , firearms and tobacco require carding . It’s not in my rideshare job description. I’m more of the don’t ask don’t tell variety. 16 year olds can drive a car on their own so... it’s a silly rule . 

If they geofenced the school, kids would hail rides just past the fence. What if a teacher needs a ride? Or a janitor? I’ve picked up high schoolers right in front of cops ?‍♀ and school faculty ... nobody cares. At least here they don’t . 

The only time I use the minor cancel thing is if they are little bastards. If I see skateboards and attitude, he’ll nah. But school pickup drop off ? If you’re out working in the day , you need all the rides you can get. 

PS, if your cancel rate goes above 15 % , for whatever reason... you will be kicked off the platform.. that includes canceling teenagers. Sad but true


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


In fact, the courts will ABSOLUTELY say it's your responsibility to ask. If the insurance company denies a claim, as they always do, the burden shifts to you to challenge this.

In other words, if you have assets, the victim's, going after you in court. If you're clearly at fault, in the accident, 99% chance they'll win. Now, the victim has a judgment, against you, to collect.

Your chance of turning around and going after the insurance company, and winning, are right at zero. You wouldn't even find an attorney to take your case.

IT'S YOUR JOB TO ASK. PERIOD.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


This is a serious problem that needs to be fixed before something bad happens to an underaged rider. And it's not just a problem with high schools. I've even had ride requests from middle schools. 

*UBER ARE YOU LISTENING??!!*


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## TarheelGeorge (May 16, 2017)

CJfrom619 said:


> ?? My English is Fine there Profesor!;"


 It's Professor not Profesor. Your English is far from fine.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Amos69 said:


> Because if you get in an accident with them in your car Neither Goober nor Gryft will cover you. That 17 yo young man gets a broken neck in your car. You are responsible for either his care the rest of his life, OR fronting the legal costs of defending yourself!


Complete and utter BS. Driving for a 17 year old does not void your insurance coverage.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Complete and utter BS. Driving for a 17 year old does not void your insurance coverage.


An unscrupulous insurance company might weasel their way out of coverage by claiming the Uber account (and the ride in question) is invalid, because the passenger is underage and therefore not eligible for an Uber account.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

KD_LA said:


> An unscrupulous insurance company might weasel their way out of coverage by claiming the Uber account (and the ride in question) is invalid


Sure. But an unscrupulous insurance company can make up any baloney it feels like and refuse to pay. It doesn't need a 17 year old passenger to do that.

Yeah, I might have to sue them. It could happen.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

goneubering said:


> This is a serious problem that needs to be fixed before something bad happens to an underaged rider. And it's not just a problem with high schools. I've even had ride requests from middle schools. :frown:
> 
> *UBER ARE YOU LISTENING??!!*


Strongly agree. Have, also, had requests fro middle schools. In fact, it's so bad I turn my app off, in many suburbs during school hours.



Christinebitg said:


> Sure. But an unscrupulous insurance company can make up any baloney it feels like and refuse to pay. It doesn't need a 17 year old passenger to do that.
> 
> Yeah, I might have to sue them. It could happen.


I work with insurance all the time, and they deny claims consistently. Denying coverage ,in the event of an accident involving a minor, would be 100%.

But, why are discussing this here? Coverage, involving minors under 18, is an exclusion in Uber's insurance policy.

Exclusions hold up in court 100%. This is a "cut and dried" case here folks. If you don't believe this, then, validate through a Farmer's underwriter and/or adjustor. Or through a personal injury attorney.

I've already done this. It's a valid exclusion. But if drivers want to risk six and seven figure losses, for a $4.00 - 5.00 ride, have at it.

No thanks. Will gladly relax and collect my $5.00 cancel.



Christinebitg said:


> Complete and utter BS. Driving for a 17 year old does not void your insurance coverage.


Education level here? It's an exclusion in Uber's insurance policy. Validated 100%. Period.

Most Uber drivers do not deserve even minimum wage. Another reason I've stopped tipping many of my fellow drivers. They're uneducated and don't deserve tips.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> But, why are discussing this here? Coverage, involving minors under 18, is an exclusion in Uber's insurance policy.


Show me where it says that.



MiamiKid said:


> Education level here?


Bachelor's degree in engineering, plus an MBA. 10 years of experience working in the insurance industry.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

KD_LA said:


> An unscrupulous insurance company might weasel their way out of coverage by claiming the Uber account (and the ride in question) is invalid, because the passenger is underage and therefore not eligible for an Uber account.


And the driver did nothing to verify the legitimacy. This would be additionally effective if the pickup was at a location in which 99% of the population was under 18.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it says that.
> 
> Bachelor's degree in engineering, plus an MBA. 10 years of experience working in the insurance industry.


You're education's shocking to believe.

And NO I DON'T need to show you anything. I've already validated this several times with professionals.

And at my level it's common sense. BUT SHOW YOU THIS??????

WOW!

Keep doing it, I do not care about you. Do not even know you and never will.

SHOW YOU? REALLY???????


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> The "you're driving without insurance" myth has been floating around the board as long as I've been posting here... which is four years now. I'm hardly ignorant of the issue.
> 
> Unless you card everybody who gets in your vehicle, you could pick up a minor anywhere. I once picked up a young lady and she just happened to mention during the trip that she had just turned 16. She easily passed for early 20s.
> 
> ...


https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0190626-y6agkckh7baeliuomlcmlkmerq-story.html


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it says that.
> 
> Bachelor's degree in engineering, plus an MBA. 10 years of experience working in the insurance industry.


Placing you in the ignore category. ??


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it says that.
> 
> Bachelor's degree in engineering, plus an MBA. 10 years of experience working in the insurance industry.


I've got 34 years experience fighting the insurance industry. It's amazing how many times our carriers roll over and stabbed us in the back.


----------



## Catty Patty (Jun 23, 2019)

[QUOTE="Dekero, post: 5480905, memberNope I don't know.. but I know how to ask for ID and I know how to get my cancel fee when they don't want to show it...
[/QUOTE]

How do you get the cancellation fee? I cancelled a ride on a minor and Uber told me that because I canceled the ride, I wasn't entitled to the ride fee. After I followed their rules... ?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Catty Patty said:


> [QUOTE="Dekero, post: 5480905, memberNope I don't know.. but I know how to ask for ID and I know how to get my cancel fee when they don't want to show it...


How do you get the cancellation fee? I cancelled a ride on a minor and Uber told me that because I canceled the ride, I wasn't entitled to the ride fee. After I followed their rules... ?
[/QUOTE]

Did you wait out the five minutes?


----------



## Jason Wilson (Oct 20, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it's my responsibility to police that.


I hated it when school started and I had to turn my app off for an hour in the mornings and also in the afternoon. I think the laws or regulations should be changed allowing us to take anyone as long as parents agree. Which, from my experience, many parents want their kids shuttled to school and brought home by Uber drivers. It's happening all the time. Uber is more than happy to take the kids money and they will just blame the driver if a kid is hurt.


----------



## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

I work mornings, My issue is the lazy soccer moms that want me to take their kids to school, so between 7-8Am if I get a ping I simply call the rider and ask them if they are an adult, and then during the ride, I explain to them that parents are allowing their kids to get into a car with strangers, and I am covering myself with that phone call. Most of the time they are appalled that parents would do that.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Strongly agree. Have, also, had requests fro middle schools. In fact, it's so bad I turn my app off, in many suburbs during school hours.
> 
> 
> I work with insurance all the time, and they deny claims consistently. Denying coverage ,in the event of an accident involving a minor, would be 100%.
> ...


I take it that you've never heard of an 'educated fool'?


----------



## Catty Patty (Jun 23, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> How do you get the cancellation fee? I cancelled a ride on a minor and Uber told me that because I canceled the ride, I wasn't entitled to the ride fee. After I followed their rules... ?


Did you wait out the five minutes?
[/QUOTE]

No, the rider was under 18, I cancelled the ride indicating that the rider was a minor. Why wouldn't that get me a cancellation fee? I'm canceling for one of their listed reasons. It happened the same way once when I cancelled a ride because someone had a small child and no car seat. It we're not supposed to take these pax, why do we have to wait the 5 minutes before canceling?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Catty Patty said:


> Did you wait out the five minutes?


No, the rider was under 18, I cancelled the ride indicating that the rider was a minor. Why wouldn't that get me a cancellation fee? I'm canceling for one of their listed reasons. It happened the same way once when I cancelled a ride because someone had a small child and no car seat. It we're not supposed to take these pax, why do we have to wait the 5 minutes before canceling?
[/QUOTE]

Why? To get the cancellation fee. I would also, while waiting, turn on the lyft app. Amazing how many times I'd get the same rider and a second cancellation.

Oh, and please fix the quotes. You've got it so it appears you are me and I am you. Lol


----------



## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

Catty Patty said:


> Did you wait out the five minutes?


No, the rider was under 18, I cancelled the ride indicating that the rider was a minor. Why wouldn't that get me a cancellation fee? I'm canceling for one of their listed reasons. It happened the same way once when I cancelled a ride because someone had a small child and no car seat. It we're not supposed to take these pax, why do we have to wait the 5 minutes before canceling?
[/QUOTE]
If you dont get paid, call support, works for me, they will pay you


----------



## Catty Patty (Jun 23, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> No, the rider was under 18, I cancelled the ride indicating that the rider was a minor. Why wouldn't that get me a cancellation fee? I'm canceling for one of their listed reasons. It happened the same way once when I cancelled a ride because someone had a small child and no car seat. It we're not supposed to take these pax, why do we have to wait the 5 minutes before canceling?


Why? To get the cancellation fee. I would also, while waiting, turn on the lyft app. Amazing how many times I'd get the same rider and a second cancellation.

Oh, and please fix the quotes. You've got it so it appears you are me and I am you. Lol
[/QUOTE]

I can't figure out how to get the quotes right - I just hit reply and this is how it's formatting itself. Help!! ?


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Catty Patty said:


> [QUOTE="Dekero, post: 5480905, memberNope I don't know.. but I know how to ask for ID and I know how to get my cancel fee when they don't want to show it...


How do you get the cancellation fee? I cancelled a ride on a minor and Uber told me that because I canceled the ride, I wasn't entitled to the ride fee. After I followed their rules... ?
[/QUOTE]

If you arrive at the pin, wait five minutes and cancel, for a valid reason, you'll always get it.


----------



## Catty Patty (Jun 23, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> If you arrive at the pin, wait five minutes and cancel, for a valid reason, you'll always get it.


So I still have to wait the 5 minutes even if the pax violates TOS? What if they cancel first? Uber's gonna take their side...



BigRedDriver said:


> Oh, and please fix the quotes. You've got it so it appears you are me and I am you. Lol


The only way I can get this to format right is by cutting and pasting. WTF did I do to mess up my ability to reply?!?!?! I have such a love-hate relationship with technology sometimes... ?



Poopy54 said:


> If you dont get paid, call support, works for me, they will pay you


I spent nearly 2 hours with support when I cancelled the "no car seat" rider, all for $2.25. We shouldn't have to do that...


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Catty Patty said:


> So I still have to wait the 5 minutes even if the pax violates TOS? What if they cancel first? Uber's gonna take their side...
> 
> 
> The only way I can get this to format right is by cutting and pasting. WTF did I do to mess up my ability to reply?!?!?! I have such a love-hate relationship with technology sometimes... ?
> ...


I used to do the same. That's why you wait out the 5 minutes before cancelling. Often times the rider will cancel before the 5 minutes to get another driver. I never had a problem collecting when doing this. And I did it a lot.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Uber ?
Take a " High Road"???

NEVER !!


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Catty Patty said:


> So I still have to wait the 5 minutes even if the pax violates TOS? What if they cancel first? Uber's gonna take their side...
> 
> 
> The only way I can get this to format right is by cutting and pasting. WTF did I do to mess up my ability to reply?!?!?! I have such a love-hate relationship with technology sometimes... ?
> ...


Waiting out the timer always works for me. If they cancel, on their end, you will get the fee if you've been at least 2 - 3 minutes on pickup. Calling support works as well; however, very poor usage of time.

And no, we should NOT have to go through all this. This's one of those things Uber could fix seamlessly, and quickly. It would be so easy and boost partner morale at the same time. Many of us, myself included, are flat out turning off the app certain hours and locations. We're all missing business. Or we're shuffling. Either way, it could work far more efficiently.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Amos69 said:


> Minor passengers are uninsured.


Show me.


----------



## Don't swim in pools (Sep 8, 2017)

O-Side Uber said:


> Alcohol , firearms and tobacco require carding . It's not in my rideshare job description. I'm more of the don't ask don't tell variety. 16 year olds can drive a car on their own so... it's a silly rule .
> 
> If they geofenced the school, kids would hail rides just past the fence. What if a teacher needs a ride? Or a janitor? I've picked up high schoolers right in front of cops ?‍♀ and school faculty ... nobody cares. At least here they don't .
> 
> ...


I dont think that's accurate. I regularly maintain a 30%+ cancel rate and they do not deactivate. Cancel away guys! Its not 15% for sure.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> And at my level it's common sense. BUT SHOW YOU THIS??????


Yeah, because I do NOT believe you.

I haven't seen anything, not anything, that says "this coverage is voided if you unintentionally transport an unrecorded minor" or its equivalent.



BigRedDriver said:


> It's amazing how many times our carriers roll over and stabbed us in the back.


Insurance carriers will stab you in the back in a heartbeat. That's not the issue.

"You weren't injured."

"It happened somewhere else."

"You could have gotten treated cheaper."

"That wasn't in our network."

"That wasn't an actual emergency." (Chest pains in a 40 year old male certainly WAS an emergency.)

So yeah, they'll stab you without a second thought.

But an unescorted minor is different somehow? Nope, same stuff, different day. It's still not a legitimate excuse to deny coverage.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> And the difference in those consequences is huge.
> 
> If you serve alcohol to someone under 21, you are subject to criminal prosecution.


I agree but so what. Your argument is its not your job to check their ids.

How does the degree of consequences have any bearing on the responsibility of checking IDs?

Again your response is unimpressive.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> In fact, the courts will ABSOLUTELY say it's your responsibility to ask. If the insurance company denies a claim, as they always do, the burden shifts to you to challenge this.
> 
> In other words, if you have assets, the victim's, going after you in court. If you're clearly at fault, in the accident, 99% chance they'll win. Now, the victim has a judgment, against you, to collect.
> 
> ...


You should consider a little financial education about risk vs reward. And take the time to actually validate your rationale.

Courts do not work the way, some folks, here, think they should. I work with insurance, and legal matters, everyday.

They do not care about the driver's logic/argument about why we should be covered. If it's excluded, in the policy, they're NOT covering it.

Very similar to the real estate industry, with respect to rental property. Insurance companies are excluding more situations all the time. In the 30+ years, of working with insurance claims, have never even once seen a company cover a claim that's excluded.

Trust me on this, I've validated with Uber's underwriter and a personal injury attorney. It's an exclusion. Period.

But folks will take this risk for $4.00? When they can make $4.80 to wait a few minutes and cancel. But, that's "blue collar logic" for ya.
?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Yeah, because I do NOT believe you.
> 
> I haven't seen anything, not anything, that says "this coverage is voided if you unintentionally transport an unrecorded minor" or its equivalent.
> 
> ...


What have you seen that shows Uber will cover you when driving a non Uber pax?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Yeah, because I do NOT believe you.
> 
> I haven't seen anything, not anything, that says "this coverage is voided if you unintentionally transport an unrecorded minor" or its equivalent.
> 
> ...


And can cost you as much suing the insurance company than the judgement. I don't care if drivers pick up minors or not (I really don't) but it simply is not worth the risk to me.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> How does the degree of consequences have any bearing on the responsibility of checking IDs?


The reason I responded with that was because people said that there's no difference between driving for an unescorted minor and serving alcohol to someone who is underage.

That of course leaves aside the different ages involved as well.

Alcohol = 21 years old
Minor (for most legal purposes) = 18
Age of consent (for sex) varies from state to state. Here in Texas, it's 17.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> And can cost you as much suing the insurance company than the judgement. I don't care if drivers pick up minors or not (I really don't) but it simply is not worth the risk to me.


Well stated.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> And can cost you as much suing the insurance company than the judgement.


Legal fees ARE an important issue, I agree. And expensive.

I am fortunate that my Significant Other is a trial lawyer. Most people don't have that. Even then, that would take my S.O. away from other paying work.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Well stated.


I think you and I are in the same business. So you know how costly it can be.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> I think you and I are in the same business. So you know how costly it can be.


Yes, absolutely.

Do, in fact, own, and manage investment properties. And liability is a primary issue we deal with daily.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> The reason I responded with that was because people said that there's no difference between driving for an unescorted minor and serving alcohol to someone who is underage.
> 
> That of course leaves aside the different ages involved as well.
> 
> ...


I made that comparison. I made the comparison because you said it is not your job to ID pax.

Your rebutal was that serving underage persons is illegal and giving a minor a ride is not. While true, has nothing to do with who is responsible for verifying your pax are not minors.

It was an irrelevant point to make.

If you're a bartender you have to follow the rules/laws. it's your job to male sure YOU do not serve underage persons.

If you're an uber driver, its YOUR job to make sure you follow the rules. One of which is no unaccompanied minors.

The consequences do not matter. The governing body doesnt matter. You agreed to the terms of service. Policy, law, against the rules call it what you want you agreed to it. YOU are responsible for verifying ages. You alone are responsible for who gets into your car.

What if tomorrow a new law took affect that mirrors ubers policy on minors? Would you claim its not you job to verily their age?

I don't care if you occasionally drive minors or not. I have, im sure i will again. Ive also refused them. Its my choice, my responsibility. If something happens i will pay the consequencess.




Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.





Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it's my responsibility to police that.





Christinebitg said:


> THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO SERVE ALCOHOL TO A MINOR.
> 
> THERE IS **NO** SUCH LAW REGARDING DRIVING A MINOR IN YOUR CAR.





Christinebitg said:


> The reason I responded with that was because people said that there's no difference between driving for an unescorted minor and serving alcohol to someone who is underage.


You seem to be tryong to male tje argument that its okay to transport mi ors without saying so. Grow a pair and say what you mean. However Its just flat wrong to claim its not your responsibility to heck and you haven't made one legitimate argument to the contrary


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Why complain about it?

Look, even if it wasn't a violation of TOS, the rides for kids are almost all minimum rate from a school. In my market, NJ, minimum fare to the driver is $3.71. Usually about $3.61 if you have the insurance taken out.

Cancel rate paid to the driver is $3.75 with Uber, with nothing taken out for insurance since no miles have been travelled, and $5.00 with Lyft.

Unless there's a surge going on (old style, since refusing a ride takes it away from you now), why would you NOT accept these pings? Better than minimum fare rate with absolutely no wear and tear on your car. Cancels for cause (pax not of age) don't count against you for deactivation purposes, and an argument for them not counting against mineral status could also,most likely, be made, as this would be blatantly unfair.

5 minutes wait time. 5 goes into 60 12 times. Let's give a minute or two between pings and say 10. 10 × $3.75 = $37.50.

Are you sticking your nose up at the idea of a possible $37.50/hour with no wear & tear on your vehicle?

Think like an employee OR independent contractor/business owner, and the result is the same. Accepting these pings makes sense.

AND it's what U/L want you to do, so they really can't complain, either.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> Why complain about it?
> 
> Look, even if it wasn't a violation of TOS, the rides for kids are almost all minimum rate from a school. In my market, NJ, minimum fare to the driver is $3.71. Usually about $3.61 if you have the insurance taken out.
> 
> ...


Well stated.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Lowestformofwit said:


> That sounds very much like an employee's responsibilities.
> Oh....wait...
> Contractually, however, Uber has accepted money (or the prospect of it) from a minor, and subcontracted the work related to it to a driver.
> So, if Uber doesn't want the risk of transporting minors, who should have rejected the initial request for the job?
> ...


You are not the sub contractor. Uber is. On every bit of writing that Uber submits to you, the government (under penalty of tax fraud & perjury & SEC reporting regulations), and the press, the pax are drivers' customers and drivers are U/L's customers.

Not all ICs are SUBcontractors. Let's get that straight. It's actually important. U/L love the distraction this whole employee vs. independent (sub)contractor provides, keeping drivers from the fight they could actually win.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> And the difference in those consequences is huge.
> 
> If you serve alcohol to someone under 21, you are subject to criminal prosecution.


And if you deliver a 15-yr-old to a 65-yr-old that s/he met on the internet (the 65-yr-old ordered the ride, let's say) and thinks is a 17-yr-old and the kid gets killed, do you think whether or not it's a matter or law or policy will save you from the enraged, broken-hearted family's wrath and attorney?



Catty Patty said:


> [QUOTE="Dekero, post: 5480905, memberNope I don't know.. but I know how to ask for ID and I know how to get my cancel fee when they don't want to show it...


How do you get the cancellation fee? I cancelled a ride on a minor and Uber told me that because I canceled the ride, I wasn't entitled to the ride fee. After I followed their rules... ?
[/QUOTE]
You have to wait 5 minutes, or else you end up spending 20 minutes trying to argue with Rohit.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> And if you deliver a 15-yr-old to a 65-yr-old that s/he met on the internet (the 65-yr-old ordered the ride, let's say) and thinks is a 17-yr-old and the kid gets killed, do you think whether or not it's a matter or law or policy will save you from the enraged, broken-hearted family's wrath and attorney?
> 
> 
> How do you get the cancellation fee? I cancelled a ride on a minor and Uber told me that because I canceled the ride, I wasn't entitled to the ride fee. After I followed their rules... ?


You have to wait 5 minutes, or else you end up spending 20 minutes trying to argue with Rohit.
[/QUOTE]

Did you ever get your account reactived?


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Catty Patty said:


> Did you wait out the five minutes?


No, the rider was under 18, I cancelled the ride indicating that the rider was a minor. Why wouldn't that get me a cancellation fee? I'm canceling for one of their listed reasons. It happened the same way once when I cancelled a ride because someone had a small child and no car seat. It we're not supposed to take these pax, why do we have to wait the 5 minutes before canceling?
[/QUOTE]
Because at that point you're dealing with the algorithim, not a person. The default position for the algorithim is to pay you for a cancel if the 5 minutes timed out and then you cancelled, so long as you didn't choose "do not charge rider".



Catty Patty said:


> So I still have to wait the 5 minutes even if the pax violates TOS? What if they cancel first? Uber's gonna take their side...
> 
> 
> The only way I can get this to format right is by cutting and pasting. WTF did I do to mess up my ability to reply?!?!?! I have such a love-hate relationship with technology sometimes... ?
> ...


Then wait the 5 minutes, or convince the rider to cancel. If the rider cancels, as soon as the trip shows on your list, send a report about unaccompanied minor, no car seat, or whatever other rider-fault reason existed. This way you still get paid, even if they credit the rider back (and they almost always do).



Boca Ratman said:


> You have to wait 5 minutes, or else you end up spending 20 minutes trying to argue with Rohit.


Did you ever get your account reactived?
[/QUOTE]
Yep. I'm back on the road with both. Lyft said they were "elated" to have me back.

No lie.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> And if you deliver a 15-yr-old to a 65-yr-old that s/he met on the internet (the 65-yr-old ordered the ride, let's say) and thinks is a 17-yr-old and the kid gets killed, do you think whether or not it's a matter or law or policy will save you from the enraged, broken-hearted family's wrath and attorney?


You're conflating driving an unescorted minor with that minor going to meet a 65 year old person.

The last time I was driving for someone who MIGHT have been a minor, I was taking her to her mother's workplace, in a building I used to work in. I say "might have" been, because she may or may not have been 18. I picked her up from a high school. She looked like she might be 18, and I have no obligation to card her.



Boca Ratman said:


> The consequences do not matter. The governing body doesnt matter.


Oh no no no. The consequences most certainly matter.

Aren't you one of the people who said that one of the consequences could be that your insurance coverage isn't valid? That's a consequence, if it's true. To turn around and then say that the consequences don't matter -- you're talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Aren't you one of the people who said that one of the consequences could be that your insurance coverage isn't valid?


Jesus christ take your adderal.

You said its not your job or responsibility to verify the pax is not a minor.

This is the only damn thing i have addressed. Everything ive replied to you os in response to your ridiculous assertion that checking ids is not on the driver.

That's it. Period.


----------



## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

Just to be clear, as far as my understanding, in the event that you have picked up a minor to transport with u/l, any talk of private/personal car insurance is not necessary. At this point you are in phase 3 of the ride and all insurance is now provided by u/l at this point, right?


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> You're conflating driving an unescorted minor with that minor going to meet a 65 year old person.
> 
> The last time I was driving for someone who MIGHT have been a minor, I was taking her to her mother's workplace, in a building I used to work in. I say "might have" been, because she may or may not have been 18. I picked her up from a high school. She looked like she might be 18, and I have no obligation to card her.
> 
> ...


Do what you want. I gave one possible scenario.

Hey! That kid you transported... how do you know Dad didn't actually have full custody and the courts didn't order only supervised visitations? Maybe Mom fed her alcohol or drugs so isn't actually allowed to have her.

Yes, unlikely if she was 17. What if she was 16? 15? 14? Where do you draw the line? The law says she's legally a minor until 18.

Uber/Lyft says the same.

Yes, they don't deactivate their accounts. They want the money. They put this stuff into TOS so that if the UNLIKELY tragic thing happens, they can have themselves removed from any legal or lawsuit equation, and leave the account holder/parent and driver to hire their own respective attorneys to hash it out.

For me, it's just not worth it. I'll get my $3.61 from someone else that's actually legally responsible for themselves. If it's a close call as to age, I'm not going to card. It's close enough to Plausible Deniability. Otherwise, pings in my area are about 3 minutes apart, and less than 5 minutes away.

YMMV


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

TarheelGeorge said:


> It's Professor not Profesor. Your English is far from fine.


Lol Jesus. Do I have to put (being sarcastic) in parenthesis for you to get the joke or are we just not that smart?


----------



## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


Exactly why I have a dashcam in my car that records what goes on inside. Captures audio and video and is infrared. Just another ride.


----------



## Jctbay (Dec 8, 2018)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


I've text battles minors making excuses multiple times. I text them and ask if their 18+ when I realize it's a school. Last week I had a rider say it was their daughter..said she had to be 18, otherwise it's illegal and against Uber policy..said she was 17.5 after 2 mile drive..waited in the parking lot, watched the girl get remotely guided by texts from parents to my vehicle..she walked up and stood next to the drivers window..Tinted af, I simply backed up and parked 2 spots down until Cancel/charge driver arrived. Gave the one ringer courtesy call, then cancelled for my 4 bucks.. screw em..irresponsible parents is what it boils down to.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Markisonit said:


> Exactly why I have a dashcam in my car that records what goes on inside. Captures audio and video and is infrared. Just another ride.


Dash cam won't do you any good.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> The "you're driving without insurance" myth has been floating around the board as long as I've been posting here... which is four years now. I'm hardly ignorant of the issue.
> 
> Unless you card everybody who gets in your vehicle, you could pick up a minor anywhere. I once picked up a young lady and she just happened to mention during the trip that she had just turned 16. She easily passed for early 20s.
> 
> ...


It's not a myth, it's a fact. I have confirmed with Uber, if you take a minor and are in an accident you have no coverage. If you want to take that chance be my guest.



Christinebitg said:


> Complete and utter BS. Driving for a 17 year old does not void your insurance coverage.


See my post above.


----------



## TarheelGeorge (May 16, 2017)

CJfrom619 said:


> Lol Jesus. Do I have to put (being sarcastic) in parenthesis for you to get the joke or are we just not that smart?
> 
> Jokes are supposed to be funny. I also see in the this thread where you used "then" incorrectly instead of "than" so your English (alleged joke or no joke) is questionable.One of us is smart.


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Grammar nazi's on forums should be beat up in real life in my opinion. Nothing worse then that.

Nothing screams nerd or no life then an adult worried about someone else's grammar.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

CJfrom619 said:


> Nothing screams nerd or no life then an adult worried about someone else's grammar.


Than*



Darrell Green Fan said:


> It's not a myth, it's a fact. I have confirmed with Uber, if you take a minor and are in an accident you have no coverage.


It isn't up to uber. Support can not even tell me the rates in the next territory North of me but the know the they how the insurance works? Lol

Every ride is insured, it does not matter who is on the car. Even if someone else uses your account the the ride is insured.

Uber would be at least equally liable in the case of an accident or other lawsuit. Do you think they'd leave themselves exposed?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Boca Ratman said:


> Than*
> 
> 
> It isn't up to uber. Support can not even tell me the rates in the next territory North of me but the know the they how the insurance works? Lol
> ...


Cite on any of that?


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Demon said:


> Cite on any of that?


https://www.dailywritingtips.com/then-or-than/


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> That kid you transported... how do you know Dad didn't actually have full custody and the courts didn't order only supervised visitations? Maybe Mom fed her alcohol or drugs so isn't actually allowed to have her.


Whether someone has custody of that minor is completely and totally irrelevant to me. What am I supposed to do, do a full freaking background check on everybody who gets into my car??


----------



## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

simple fix show address on ping screen like they used to, at least for high schools


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Whether someone has custody of that minor is completely and totally irrelevant to me. What am I supposed to do, do a full freaking background check on everybody who gets into my car??


It is when picking up at an address that has a population that has 90+% minors.



dnlbaboof said:


> simple fix show address on ping screen like they used to, at least for high schools


Won't work. Not everyone at a school is a minor. And you get paid to not pick up the minor in the first place.

Look, the answer is pretty simple. If drivers quit picking up minors, those calls end really really quickly.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> It is when picking up at an address that has a population that has 90+% minors.


SHOW ME where I says I'm responsible for doing an ID check. You can't, because it doesn't say that.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> Than*
> 
> 
> It isn't up to uber. Support can not even tell me the rates in the next territory North of me but the know the they how the insurance works? Lol
> ...


There it is. You proved my point.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> SHOW ME where I says I'm responsible for doing an ID check. You can't, because it doesn't say that.


Then don't. I could care less. You want. For some reason that makes me scratch my head, to increase your liability, do it.

When it goes south? I still won't care.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> SHOW ME where I says I'm responsible for doing an ID check. You can't, because it doesn't say that.


So are you saying that it isn't against the terms of service to transport minors?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> So are you saying that it isn't against the terms of service to transport minors?


That's a completely separate issue from whether a.) insurance coverage is in effect, or b.) whether I have an obligation to police the issue.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

If Uber put a cleaning fee like charge say $50 penalty for underage riders they would stop trying to get rides.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> That's a completely separate issue from whether a.) insurance coverage is in effect, or b.) whether I have an obligation to police the issue.


Ask your insurance agent. I did. He told me to stay the @@@@ away from minors.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Whether someone has custody of that minor is completely and totally irrelevant to me. What am I supposed to do, do a full freaking background check on everybody who gets into my car??


Nope. Just an age one.

But, as I said, do what you want. Everything's fine and dandy until it isn't, after all.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> That's a completely separate issue from whether a.) insurance coverage is in effect, or b.) whether I have an obligation to police the issue.


Answer the question please.
Do you believe that transporting minors is not against tje terms of servce?

How is it a separate issue from b.) whether I have an obligation to police the issue. ?



Christinebitg said:


> That's a completely separate issue from whether a.) insurance coverage is in effect, or b.) whether I have an obligation to police the issue.


Again, if your a bartender its your responsibility to male sure you serve no underage persons. Its your responsibility by default to check ids on amyone questionably underage.

If you're an uber driver and its aginst policy to transport minors, by default its your responsibility to check ids. What the F is so hard to comprehemd here?

As a bartender you have to obey the law.
As an uber driver you have to obey the terms of service.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> Again, if your a bartender its your responsibility to male sure you serve no underage persons. Its your responsibility by default to check ids on amyone questionably underage.


It won't help to keep repeating yourself.

It's against the LAW to serve alcohol to a minor.

The Uber Terms of Service do not have the force of law.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> It won't help to keep repeating yourself.
> 
> It's against the LAW to serve alcohol to a minor.
> 
> The Uber Terms of Service do not have the force of law.


This makes no sense. Explain to me how it makes a difference whether its law or a policy?

If it was a law that minors can not ride alone who is responsible for checking ids?

Why would it make a difference whether its a company policy or a law to who is responsible? 
If you work for a company their policy is to he followed , right?

Im repeating myself because you are refusing to answer my question.


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## TarheelGeorge (May 16, 2017)

CJfrom619 said:


> Grammar nazi's on forums should be beat up in real life in my opinion. Nothing worse then that.
> 
> You just used then instead of than again. When you question how smart someone is put your big boy pants on when you get called out for not being able to use the correct basic English word. That is 4th grade grammar. Let me know when you are in the Raleigh area -one thing worse than a grammar Nazi is a big shot threatening to beat someone up from the safe confines behind their computer screen.


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## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Wow, it's not a big deal. Bar tenders do it and don't complain



Boca Ratman said:


> This makes no sense. Explain to me how it makes a difference whether its law or a policy?
> 
> If it was a law that minors can not ride alone who is responsible for checking ids?
> 
> ...


The law is different in each state however uber policy is 18 everywhere and you can be sued and your Ins won't cover your ride because your contract with uber states 18.



CJfrom619 said:


> There it is. You proved my point.


It's up to uber. You have a contract with uber. You follow the rules. Their ins don't cover you for taking people you use not suppose to and you can be sued


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Why? There's rich shufflin' pickins to be had around schools at closing time.
> 
> Besides that, kids would obviously just walk away from the school until they were outside the geofence and request from there. Kids aren't smart enough to know that a ping from a school will be a child; we want to keep them all requesting from schools for easy identification.


Building a geofence for any location costs Uber a lot of money to hire the workers and provide the material. You think they gonna do that to every school? You outta ya mind! If you don't like picking up children. Then don't drive at those hours. That's all I do to avoid it.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> Building a geofence for any location costs Uber a lot of money to hire the workers and provide the material. You think they gonna do that to every school? You outta ya mind! If you don't like picking up children. Then don't drive at those hours. That's all I do to avoid it.


Nonsense. I'm sure Home Depot would give Uber a sizeable discount on materials for the fences and there's always a good supply of low cost labour hanging around the parking lot smoking los cigarros.


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## cspringer805 (Jan 29, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


Actually, it IS YOUR JOB to ask if they're 18 or over. Read up on your contract again. Noooo miors without adults.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Nonsense. I'm sure Home Depot would give Uber a sizeable discount on materials for the fences and there's always a good supply of low cost labour hanging around the parking lot smoking los cigarros.


Yea cuz you see them promoting cheap labor outside there stores all the time right? The cheap labors wouldn't be there if that was the case. Corporations always do deals with other corporations, been that way for years. Hence there are Unions against that cause.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> Yea cuz you see them promoting cheap labor outside there stores all the time right? The cheap labors wouldn't be there if that was the case. Corporations always do deals with other corporations, been that way for years. Hence there are Unions against that cause.


Exactly! Home Depot is the root of all evil in this country. If Home Depot did not exist then all problems would disappear instantly. That's why unions are against Home Depot.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Home Depot doesn't pay Union wages in any of there projects for needing labor. That's why Unions are against them. Worked for them for years and seen it first hand, they would rather try and swindle there employees to do most of the work, then when it comes to the coding stuff they hire non union workers to finish it up. The public is the guilty ones for hiring "Jose" in the parking lots to do there yard work for them. It's not the company.

But to honestly even try an attempt of putting a geofence around every single school in the country is way outta bounds. They would never do that considering they lost 5B$ last quarter! They got other fish to fry out there. You might be next. ?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> Home Depot doesn't pay Union wages in any of there projects for needing labor. That's why Unions are against them. Worked for them for years and seen it first hand, they would rather try and swindle there employees to do most of the work, then when it comes to the coding stuff they hire non union workers to finish it up. The public is the guilty ones for hiring "Jose" in the parking lots to do there yard work for them. It's not the company.


Yep. Home Depot is the work of Satan. How many letters are in the word "Depot"? Five. How many points are there in a Satanic pentastar? Five.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

You kinda just sound like a disgruntled ex-employee of there’s is all. There’s millions of those out there. That’s no hidden secret. It was the best choice I made to get out. I’m not disgruntled at all either. It was just “time” to go for me.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> You kinda just sound like a disgruntled ex-employee of there's is all. There's millions of those out there. That's no hidden secret. It was the best choice I made to get out. I'm not disgruntled at all either. It was just "time" to go for me.


I'm so glad you're not disgruntled. Actually, I have no experience of Home Depot, apart from buying some bug spray and a wrench there once. I was just going along with you, supporting you in your rant against them. Maybe I took it too far; I don't know.

Ok, so now we think Home Depot is ok. Go, Home Depot!


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Yet you still spend your hard earned money there then! I also do the same. No rant needed. It’s just another typical corporation when it comes to business. 

Out here there is no day labors hanging out in the parking lots. The public won’t hire them for anything. Maybe take a look at the place you live and blame the public over there. Not the company lol.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> Yet you still spend your hard earned money there then!


No, anachronistic one; I purchased my wrench before your rant.


> Maybe take a look at the place you live and blame the public over there.


Blaming Satan was more fun. Don't blame immigrant fence builders.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, anachronistic one; I purchased my wrench before your rant.
> Blaming Satan was more fun. Don't blame immigrant fence builders.


PWND! LOL!


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> PWND! LOL!


I win! ?

Lol!


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Than*
> 
> 
> It isn't up to uber. Support can not even tell me the rates in the next territory North of me but the know the they how the insurance works? Lol
> ...


All insurance companies will do what they can to avoid paying a claim. Anyone who has had to deal with them will tell you that. Even if it's a legit claim with no minors the Uber insurance makes it hard to collect. If you don't think the insurance companies will not pay due to violating the terms you obviously don't know insurance companies. It's been told by drivers dozens of times, it was confirmed by Uber Help which i grant you is not very helpful but they at least know this.

If you feel so strongly about your position that you are willing to risk financial ruin for a $5 ride be my guest, personally I don't know why anyone would be that stupid.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

It's not just schools from where underage kids can order rides.

I picked up a kid at the local Wal-Mart one day. He looked older and was wearing a Wal-Mart uniform at the time. Right in the middle of the ride, he volunteered the info that he was 16 years old.

Are we supposed to card everyone who gets in our car? If so, get ready for a bunch of POed passengers, who will one-star you for guessing their age to be too low.



BigRedDriver said:


> I've picked up teachers, coaches, parents, maintenance workers at schools. And dozens and dozens of cancellation fees.


Also, by the spring of any given school year, roughly 70% of the senior class will be 18 years old. Hell, some of the junior class who were held back one year in grade school might be 18 by then. How the F are we supposed to know?

Oh, right, we could ask them. Because high school kids would never lie about anything or procure fake IDs!

It's total horseshit that Uber allows ANYONE -- let alone minors -- to obtain a rider account without first verifying their true identification.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


What? why? that;s like 50% of my clientele. Brats ditch school to go to the mall = $$$.



Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


That's what I'm saying... And you get to catch up on the latest highschool gossip.



RideshareUSA said:


> ....that can lead to deactivation if the rider is a minor. Duh!


Don't ... touch... pax.... Duh!


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## 125928 (Oct 5, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> And... You know that all high school students are underage??
> 
> I picked up a kid from a high school last month. She may or may not have been 18.
> 
> It's not my job to ask.


It's all fun and games until that minor makes a false accusation against the driver.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> This makes no sense. Explain to me how it makes a difference whether its law or a policy?


I've covered that enough times already. I'm done.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

rkozy said:


> It's not just schools from where underage kids can order rides.
> 
> I picked up a kid at the local Wal-Mart one day. He looked older and was wearing a Wal-Mart uniform at the time. Right in the middle of the ride, he volunteered the info that he was 16 years old.
> 
> ...


70% of the senior class, by the spring may indeed be 18. But high schools have 3 or 4 grade levels in them. So the vast majority will be under 18.

Again, you want To pick up minors for a mostly minimum fare ride, go for it. For $5? It ain't worth the liability to me.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> All insurance companies will do what they can to avoid paying a claim. Anyone who has had to deal with them will tell you that. Even if it's a legit claim with no minors the Uber insurance makes it hard to collect. If you don't think the insurance companies will not pay due to violating the terms you obviously don't know insurance companies. It's been told by drivers dozens of times, it was confirmed by Uber Help which i grant you is not very helpful but they at least know this.
> 
> If you feel so strongly about your position that you are willing to risk financial ruin for a $5 ride be my guest, personally I don't know why anyone would be that stupid.


Of course they will try to deny, thats standard operating procedure. Even the most reputable insurance companies do this.

However, the insurance policy is not voided if you transport a solo minor. The policy is on the rode, every ride. If i stole your phone and accepted a request and picled up a minor. Still insured.

6 minors in your X vehicle, still covered.

Now, if that minor i picked up went and did something illegal or got themselves killed, I'm sure I could share some of the liability.

Its a commercial policy on the ride.

I'm not advocating for picking up kids. I'd rather not deal with them myself. If im home i go offline when school gets out. I cancel pick ups from the local HSs.

I've canceled dozens, maybe hundreds of rides because the they looked 14 and couldnt produce an ID. Not once was ot because i thought insurance wouldn't cover me, it would. I cancel because i don't want to end up in court because the snowflke ODed or got raped after i dropped them off. 
That is what you should be worried about.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> I've covered that enough times already. I'm done.


You haven't covered it once clown.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> Of course they will try to deny, thats standard operating procedure. Even the most reputable insurance companies do this.
> 
> However, the insurance policy is not voided if you transport a solo minor. The policy is on the rode, every ride. If i stole your phone and accepted a request and picled up a minor. Still insured.
> 
> ...


Just sayin


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

rkozy said:


> It's not just schools from where underage kids can order rides.
> 
> I picked up a kid at the local Wal-Mart one day. He looked older and was wearing a Wal-Mart uniform at the time. Right in the middle of the ride, he volunteered the info that he was 16 years old.
> 
> ...


Asking for an ID will clear all of that up.
How does UBER verify age?


----------



## IMMA DRIVER (Jul 6, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> the pax are drivers' customers and drivers are U/L's customers.


The driver's are "partners" not customers.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

IMMA DRIVER said:


> The driver's are "partners" not customers.


Even with the quotes, did you type that with a straight face?


----------



## IMMA DRIVER (Jul 6, 2017)

dnlbaboof said:


> simple fix show address on ping screen like they used to, at least for high schools


Highschoolers would never get picked up if this was the case. And obviously U/L don't want that.



Crosbyandstarsky said:


> The law is different in each state however uber policy is 18 everywhere and you can be sued and your Ins won't cover your ride because your contract with uber states 18.


If the passenger is in your car then Uber is the responsible insurer and your personal insurance has nothing to do with it.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

IMMA DRIVER said:


> Highschoolers would never get picked up if this was the case. And obviously U/L don't want that.
> 
> 
> If the passenger is in your car then Uber is the responsible insurer and your personal insurance has nothing to do with it.


Correct. Unaccompanied minors are not passengers though.


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## IMMA DRIVER (Jul 6, 2017)

The way I approach the situation is as a business owner. I'm an IC and treat it as a business. Would I want my business to fold because I didn't take the necessary precautions to assure all boxes were checked? Do bars check ID's, do Clubs check ID's at the door, do Banks require proof of age before opening an account, how about the DMV can someone get a license underage? Well, I treat my business the same. Asking an individual if they can provide ID takes a matter of seconds. We take hundreds of rides weekly. I don't think taking 10 seconds out of maybe 1-3 rides/week tops is asking too much. I understand I shouldn't have to do this......BUT..... it is "my business" not Uber or Lyft's and if I want to keep it running and running successfully then I'm taking the necessary precautions where I see fit.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

IMMA DRIVER said:


> The driver's are "partners" not customers.


Not according to the 1099s....


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> You haven't covered it once clown.


Then let me repeat it for you again.

The LAW SAYS I can't serve alcohol to someone under 21.

Uber's Terms of Service do NOT have the force of law, and are not enforceable in the criminal justice system.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Then let me repeat it for you again.
> 
> The LAW SAYS I can't serve alcohol to someone under 21.
> 
> Uber's Terms of Service do NOT have the force of law, and are not enforceable in the criminal justice system.


You moved the goal posts on this one. The law does say a minor can't enter into a contract.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> You moved the goal posts on this one. The law does say a minor can't enter into a contract.


I haven't moved anything.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> It's not a myth, it's a fact. I have confirmed with Uber...


Did you ask the legal department? Or did you get this from Rohit?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> I haven't moved anything.


You certainly did. Your original claim was that it's not your job to check ID. Once you found it that it was you started talking about how it's illegal to serve alcohol to people under 21.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Then let me repeat it for you again.
> 
> The LAW SAYS I can't serve alcohol to someone under 21.
> 
> Uber's Terms of Service do NOT have the force of law, and are not enforceable in the criminal justice system.


That was never in question nor does it answer my question Trying to have a conversion with you is worse than dealing with drunks.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Then let me repeat it for you again.
> 
> The LAW SAYS I can't serve alcohol to someone under 21.
> 
> Uber's Terms of Service do NOT have the force of law, and are not enforceable in the criminal justice system.


They ARE enforceable in civil court, though. Lawsuits.


----------



## Howie428Uber (Mar 4, 2016)

Another thing to look at in respect of whether not the insurance remains valid is your local law governing rideshare. In Pennsylvania the law requires insurance to be in effect and it does not mention any situation in which the insurance can be voided. That law exists to protect passengers since it would be ridiculous to allow U/L to void a claim and send an injured passenger to get the money from a broke driver.

So the insurance would be in effect. However, I guess it would be possible for a company that had paid out to chase the assets of the driver if they felt the driver had been negligent. It seems like it would be a high bar for a company to win such a case and the rewards and negative publicity make it unlikely that they would try this approach. And the passenger could directly sue the driver on some negligence basis.

Unknowingly transporting a 17 year old would be a weak basis to claim negligence, especially considering that U/L and the passenger are at fault and complicit in arranging for it to happen.

It's not the trip insurance that is the big concern here, it's the risk of being responsible, accused, or liable for an unfavorable outcome to the minor. When you look at it like that it becomes possible that the act of leaving the minor behind could be a problem, so you could lose either way.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

rkozy said:


> Also, by the spring of any given school year, roughly 70% of the senior class will be 18 years old. Hell, some of the junior class who were held back one year in grade school might be 18 by then. How the F are we supposed to know?


I think you need to go back to school. . There are 12 months in the year, by spring you have only the kids born from January to April turn 18, that's 4 months out of 12. Do the math, that's not 70% of the seniors.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I think you need to go back to school. . There are 12 months in the year, by spring you have only the kids born from January to April turn 18, that's 4 months out of 12. Do the math, that's not 70% of the seniors.


In my state, some kids were having their 18th birthday during the October and November of their senior year...making them 18 for a majority of the school year. Only the kids born in late May through July were turning 18 after they graduated.



father of unicorns said:


> It's all fun and games until that minor makes a false accusation against the driver.


Yes....because ONLY minors will make false accusations against a driver, and not some drunk 30-something who was mad because you didn't make his impromptu trip through the McDonald's drive-thru lane at 2:45 AM.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Did you ask the legal department? Or did you get this from Rohit?


I am simply using common sense. If you hear it from a number of sources, including Uber, then that's enough for me to know it's a stupid risk to take for a $5 ride. If you want to take that risk and really believe insurance companies will not use the rule in the terms to get out of paying a big claim you obviously don't know insurance companies well so be my guest and take the ride. What's the worst that can happen other than financial ruin?


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Demon said:


> Asking for an ID will clear all of that up.
> How does UBER verify age?


Pretty damn sure they are verifying our age when we sign up to drive for them. So, it can be done.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

rkozy said:


> In my state, some kids were having their 18th birthday during the October and November of their senior year...making them 18 for a majority of the school year. Only the kids born in late May through July were turning 18 after they graduated.
> 
> 
> Yes....because ONLY minors will make false accusations against a driver, and not some drunk 30-something who was mad because you didn't make his impromptu trip through the McDonald's drive-thru lane at 2:45 AM.


I was going to put in my post that the vast majority of school districts go by January-December. Those born in October/November are in the previous class. Your area may be the exception but for most of us the line "most seniors are 18 by spring" simply is not true.

I'll ask again, is it really worth total financial disaster for a $5 ride because the rider MAY be 18? That makes no sense.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I'll ask again, is it really worth total financial disaster for a $5 ride because the rider MAY be 18? That makes no sense.


You are risking disaster (financial, and otherwise) by driving for Uber, period. If a propensity to being risk-averse was something that controlled my every motivation in life, I would have never signed up for this gig in the first place.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Howie428Uber said:


> Another thing to look at in respect of whether not the insurance remains valid is your local law governing rideshare. In Pennsylvania the law requires insurance to be in effect and it does not mention any situation in which the insurance can be voided. That law exists to protect passengers since it would be ridiculous to allow U/L to void a claim and send an injured passenger to get the money from a broke driver.
> 
> So the insurance would be in effect. However, I guess it would be possible for a company that had paid out to chase the assets of the driver if they felt the driver had been negligent. It seems like it would be a high bar for a company to win such a case and the rewards and negative publicity make it unlikely that they would try this approach. And the passenger could directly sue the driver on some negligence basis.
> 
> ...


last sentence is incorrect. You are not negligent in performing your job as instructed.



rkozy said:


> You are risking disaster (financial, and otherwise) by driving for Uber, period. If a propensity to being risk-averse was something that controlled my every motivation in life, I would have never signed up for this gig in the first place.


I will always control risk when my families future is at stake.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> I was going to put in my post that the vast majority of school districts go by January-December. Those born in October/November are in the previous class. Your area may be the exception but for most of us the line "most seniors are 18 by spring" simply is not true.
> 
> I'll ask again, is it really worth total financial disaster for a $5 ride because the rider MAY be 18? That makes no sense.


you forgot. Is it worth the risk for a $5 fair, less the cost of gas, then it is to collect the $3.80, no cost of gas, to simply cancel?

makes almost no sense.


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## Pace Hire (Feb 23, 2018)

You do this without anyone else's help companion. You should know the schools in your general vicinity and have the option to detect that solicitation coming in...if not after you acknowledge each solicitation. Check the goal on google maps to ensure you know where your lifting somebody up as opposed to going in there visually impaired.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

rkozy said:


> In my state, some kids were having their 18th birthday during the October and November of their senior year...making them 18 for a majority of the school year. Only the kids born in late May through July were turning 18 after they graduated.
> 
> 
> Yes....because ONLY minors will make false accusations against a driver, and not some drunk 30-something who was mad because you didn't make his impromptu trip through the McDonald's drive-thru lane at 2:45 AM.


minor accusations are given far greater importance than adult.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

rkozy said:


> You are risking disaster (financial, and otherwise) by driving for Uber, period. If a propensity to being risk-averse was something that controlled my every motivation in life, I would have never signed up for this gig in the first place.


No I am not. I make sure I have ample coverage, I don't transport minors or kids without car seats. Nope the money I have earned in my 60 years is protected, the money I earn driving for Uber and Lyft pays the bills. I'm good, question is are you?


----------



## 2smart2drive (Jul 9, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> The ignorance of so many drivers still astonishes me. It's drivers like you that make it so difficult for the rest of us who constantly hear "this has never been a problem before".
> 
> Do you really not understand that should there be an accident not only will the ride share company fire you but since you violated the Terms you have no insurance? So you will be personally paying all the hospital bills of that kid, car damage, and any litigation that is sure to be filed. For the rest of your life.
> 
> How do you not know this?


Not so fast. First and foremost, a minor's Parents would have violated the terms by "knowingly and willingly" allowing their underage child to order (and, most likely, repeatedly) ILLEGAL ride-share requests.

A parental liability - easily provable & discoverable Child Endangerment and Intentional Neglect - will kick in as a legal shield, when it comes to drivers' protections.

Child protective services will have their shiny day in court with those parents before drivers "lose liability protection coverage" for unknowingly providing rides to a minor (lying about true age in order to be accepted to ride) - coached, pre-approved and pre-authorized by their parents intentionally manipulating UBER with a deceitful scheme to provide an illegal transportation, WILLINGLY and recklessly putting random & unaware Uber-drivers at risk.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I think you need to go back to school. . There are 12 months in the year, by spring you have only the kids born from January to April turn 18, that's 4 months out of 12. Do the math, that's not 70% of the seniors.


In NJ, the cutoff is now Oct. 31, not Dec. 31.

Just sayin'.


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## Howie428Uber (Mar 4, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> last sentence is incorrect. You are not negligent in performing your job as instructed.


For example, let's say it's way below freezing and you pull up in a remote place to find a teenager who is obviously cold. You I.D. the teenager and discover they are 17, then you proceed to sit there in your warm car for five minutes so that you can collect the cancelation fee before leaving. You're both refusing to pick the kid up and you're delaying any other possible pick up from arriving. If the kid later dies or gets frostbite are you sure no one would hold you accountable for that?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Howie428Uber said:


> For example, let's say it's way below freezing and you pull up in a remote place to find a teenager who is obviously cold. You I.D. the teenager and discover they are 17, then you proceed to sit there in your warm car for five minutes so that you can collect the cancelation fee before leaving. You're both refusing to pick the kid up and you're delaying any other possible pick up from arriving. If the kid later dies or gets frostbite are you sure no one would hold you accountable for that?


your obligation at that point is to call 911 to do a welfare check. which I have done before.

if you want to take it this far, why not cancel the ride and go off line and take the lil darlin where they need to go?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

rkozy said:


> Pretty damn sure they are verifying our age when we sign up to drive for them. So, it can be done.


That's on the driver side. I'm asking what are they doing on the passenger side.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Howie428Uber said:


> For example, let's say it's way below freezing and you pull up in a remote place to find a teenager who is obviously cold. You I.D. the teenager and discover they are 17, then you proceed to sit there in your warm car for five minutes so that you can collect the cancelation fee before leaving. You're both refusing to pick the kid up and you're delaying any other possible pick up from arriving. If the kid later dies or gets frostbite are you sure no one would hold you accountable for that?


Yes.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> Yes.


How?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

I'm not laughing at you guys, I'm laughing near you. Oh wait, maybe I'm doing that to


SuzeCB said:


> They ARE enforceable in civil court, though. Lawsuits.


Yes, that's a true statement.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> How?


you are not legally responsible for the welfare of others. This isn't Seinfeld


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

2smart2drive said:


> Not so fast. First and foremost, a minor's Parents would have violated the terms by "knowingly and willingly" allowing their underage child to order (and, most likely, repeatedly) ILLEGAL ride-share requests.
> 
> A parental liability - easily provable & discoverable Child Endangerment and Intentional Neglect - will kick in as a legal shield, when it comes to drivers' protections.
> 
> Child protective services will have their shiny day in court with those parents before drivers "lose liability protection coverage" for unknowingly providing rides to a minor (lying about true age in order to be accepted to ride) - coached, pre-approved and pre-authorized by their parents intentionally manipulating UBER with a deceitful scheme to provide an illegal transportation, WILLINGLY and recklessly putting random & unaware Uber-drivers at risk.


So just to be clear you believe if I take a 17 year old and there is a bad crash, everyone (include me) is injured and both cars are totaled you believe the parents will pay all the bills, buy me a new car and pay all of my medical expenses as well as others who may have been hurt? Under what policy will the parents insurance pay all these costs? Or would my recourse be to sue them, then wait years for a settlement if I even win.

No I think I'll continue to deny these rides and call out those who actually believe there is no risk to the driver.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> So just to be clear you believe if I take a 17 year old and there is a bad crash, everyone (include me) is injured and both cars are totaled you believe the parents will pay all the bills, buy me a new car and pay all of my medical expenses as well as others who may have been hurt? Under what policy will the parents insurance pay all these costs? Or would my recourse be to sue them, then wait years for a settlement if I even win.
> 
> No I think I'll continue to deny these rides and call out those who actually believe there is no risk to the driver.


well stated. The naive however won't understand.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> In NJ, the cutoff is now Oct. 31, not Dec. 31.
> 
> Just sayin'.


OK so that's another exception to the rule, and even with this example half the students are not 18 by spring.



BigRedDriver said:


> well stated. The naive however won't understand.


It really is amazing how dumb so many drivers continue to be. They feel Hell bent on providing any reason they can come up with to deny this risk exists. For a $5 ride why would anyone with any intelligence roll the dice with stakes this high and hope they were right? Simply amazing.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I am simply using common sense. If you hear it from a number of sources, including Uber, then that's enough for me to know it's a stupid risk to take for a $5 ride. If you want to take that risk and really believe insurance companies will not use the rule in the terms to get out of paying a big claim you obviously don't know insurance companies well so be my guest and take the ride. What's the worst that can happen other than financial ruin?


I don't care whether posters here accept rides from high schools or not. But I think we all deserve to get the best information when making these decisions, not what seems like "common sense" to some members of the board. A good percentage of posters here believe it's common sense that Uber is going to do everything in its power to make good on insurance to a minor. The idea that they'd have a policy in place to deny insurance to these riders just doesn't pass the smell test. And when you ask for evidence of it, nobody can ever provide it. If you're going to make a claim then you'd better be able to provide evidence.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> I don't care whether posters here accept rides from high schools or not. But I think we all deserve to get the best information when making these decisions, not what seems like "common sense" to some members of the board. A good percentage of posters here believe it's common sense that Uber is going to do everything in its power to make good on insurance to a minor. The idea that they'd have a policy in place to deny insurance to these riders just doesn't pass the smell test. And when you ask for evidence of it, nobody can ever provide it. If you're going to make a claim then you'd better be able to provide evidence.


sorry, that's just not how it works. I posted earlier the Mayhem commercial. I did that for a reason.

on this board there are not many that actually believe that Uber/Lyft has their best interest in mind, except, for some reason, when it comes to something that both Uber/Lyft forbids in their TOS.

makes almost zero sense.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> No I am not. I make sure I have ample coverage, I don't transport minors or kids without car seats. Nope the money I have earned in my 60 years is protected, the money I earn driving for Uber and Lyft pays the bills. I'm good, question is are you?


Let's see....I'm well over the 2,000-ride mark with nothing even close to a temporary deactivation or legal entanglement during that time. It would appear if I was living as dangerously as you claim, the law of averages would have caught up to me by now.

But, your "concern" is noted.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Let's see....I'm well over the 2,000-ride mark with nothing even close to a temporary deactivation or legal entanglement during that time. It would appear if I was living as dangerously as you claim, the law of averages would have caught up to me by now.
> 
> But, your "concern" is noted.


I sincerely hope you luck continues. But don't come crying if it doesn't.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

rkozy said:


> Let's see....I'm well over the 2,000-ride mark with nothing even close to a temporary deactivation or legal entanglement during that time. It would appear if I was living as dangerously as you claim, the law of averages would have caught up to me by now.
> 
> But, your "concern" is noted.


It only takes one accident to ruin your day or your life.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> I sincerely hope you luck continues. But don't come crying if it doesn't.


Uber isn't my livelihood. It's something I do for extra cash. There are plenty of other jobs out there that provide the same means to an end.

Plus, I have an actual W-2 job. Unlike many of the people who post here, I'm not going to spend my days marinating in fear, paranoia, and abject rage because Uber controls such a large portion of my personal destiny.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Uber isn't my livelihood. It's something I do for extra cash. There are plenty of other jobs out there that provide the same means to an end.
> 
> Plus, I have an actual W-2 job. Unlike many of the people who post here, I'm not going to spend my days marinating in fear, paranoia, and abject rage because Uber controls such a large portion of my personal destiny.


I also have a job, plus a side business. I no longer drive except for a few rides a month for who knows why?

why be paranoid in the first place. It's just never a good idea to mess with minors when you absolutely don't have too. That's the entire point. Cancel, collect and move on.

it's really quite simple.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

rkozy said:


> Let's see....I'm well over the 2,000-ride mark with nothing even close to a temporary deactivation or legal entanglement during that time. It would appear if I was living as dangerously as you claim, the law of averages would have caught up to me by now.
> 
> But, your "concern" is noted.


I'm in the same boat, 2,000 rides with no legal issues as well. Not sure what that has to do with the discussion on insurance. The entire purpose of having insurance is it's to protect you from the million to one chance that disaster strikes. I haven't had a house fire in 60 years yet I carry insurance.

If you honestly think Uber and their insurance company has your best interest at heart and that their insurance company won't deny the claim when you break the rules you obviously know nothing about how insurance companies operate.



rkozy said:


> Uber isn't my livelihood. It's something I do for extra cash. There are plenty of other jobs out there that provide the same means to an end.
> 
> Plus, I have an actual W-2 job. Unlike many of the people who post here, I'm not going to spend my days marinating in fear, paranoia, and abject rage because Uber controls such a large portion of my personal destiny.


Then it sounds like you have more to lose than many of these drivers who break the rules and roll the dice. I have no idea why you don't get this.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> on this board there are not many that actually believe that Uber/Lyft has their best interest in mind, except, for some reason, when it comes to something that both Uber/Lyft forbids in their TOS.


You misunderstood my point. I never suggested uber would cover minors because it's in the drivers' interest. They will cover minors because it's in their interest. It really is. There's no conceivable reason uber would want tens of thousand of teeny boppers riding to and from high school every day uninsured. It's beyond comprehension. But that's what you have to believe if you take the minors are uninsured position.

Uber's primary reason for insuring riders isn't to protect you. It's to protect them.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You misunderstood my point. I never suggested uber would cover minors because it's in the drivers' interest. They will cover minors because it's in their interest. It really is. There's no conceivable reason uber would want tens of thousand of teeny boppers riding to and from high school every day uninsured. It's beyond comprehension. But that's what you have to believe if you take the minors are uninsured position.
> 
> Uber's primary reason for insuring riders isn't to protect you. It's to protect them.


You make a good argument. I don't agree but can see your point. But are you really willing to take that risk? Sounds pretty crazy to me when you can simply collect the cancel fee.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Better yet, ID verification just like drivers have with picture of Account Holder required on all ride requests.
And, if the Account Holder is requesting a ride for a different person, that person needs to have a link in the app they click on that allows a picture of That Rider.

Then, when we report the rider is an Unaccompanied Minor and the "age verification" does not match the picture of the rider that account gets temporarily suspended (first offense) or permanently suspended (second offense)



Coachman said:


> You misunderstood my point. I never suggested uber would cover minors because it's in the drivers' interest. They will cover minors because it's in their interest. It really is. There's no conceivable reason uber would want tens of thousand of teeny boppers riding to and from high school every day uninsured. It's beyond comprehension. But that's what you have to believe if you take the minors are uninsured position.
> 
> Uber's primary reason for insuring riders isn't to protect you. It's to protect them.


Actually, since the ride violates Ubers Terms of Service regarding unaccompanied minors...they don't have to provide insurance. 
Any more than your insurance company will cover you if you don't have rideshare coverage informing them the vehicle is being used for commercial purposes. 
Contract law will allow Uber and (well not James River here in the near future) their insurer to deny your coverage or culpability due to the driver choosing to violate Ubers Terms of Service.

So, yeah, goodluck with that.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Better yet, ID verification just like drivers have with picture of Account Holder required on all ride requests.
> And, if the Account Holder is requesting a ride for a different person, that person needs to have a link in the app they click on that allows a picture of That Rider.
> 
> Then, when we report the rider is an Unaccompanied Minor and the "age verification" does not match the picture of the rider that account gets temporarily suspended (first offense) or permanently suspended (second offense)
> ...


well said. The question that a good attorney would pose to the driver, especially when picking up at a school would be, were you aware you were violating the terms of service?
If you knowingly are, then why should the insurance company defend you?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> You make a good argument. I don't agree but can see your point. But are you really willing to take that risk? Sounds pretty crazy to me when you can simply collect the cancel fee.


I did a rough calculation recently and estimated that about 35,000 minors take rideshares every day. The numbers are huge.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

....there are several ride shares geared towards minors. one example hopskipdrive. They pay better too, btw. :wacky:


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Actually, since the ride violates Ubers Terms of Service regarding unaccompanied minors...they don't have to provide insurance.


Why would uber provide tens of thousands of rides every day for which they're uninsured in the event of an accident?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You misunderstood my point. I never suggested uber would cover minors because it's in the drivers' interest. They will cover minors because it's in their interest. It really is. There's no conceivable reason uber would want tens of thousand of teeny boppers riding to and from high school every day uninsured. It's beyond comprehension. But that's what you have to believe if you take the minors are uninsured position.
> 
> Uber's primary reason for insuring riders isn't to protect you. It's to protect them.


But the insurance company will try to wriggle out of paying. Would they succeed? Don't know. Driver might have to hire his/her own lawyer, at his/her own expense, to find out.

Personally, I have better things to do with my money.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> The entire purpose of having insurance is it's to protect you from the million to one chance that disaster strikes.


That's a true statement. Insurance inherently deals with low probability, high consequence events.

That's why I don't lose a lot of sleep over having a rideshare endorsement for my auto insurance policy. I know what the potential for my losses is, and I'm willing to tolerate that possibility. Would I rather have one? Sure! But I'm not willing to change my insurance company to get that.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> But the insurance company will try to wriggle out of paying.


An insurance company only wiggles out of paying when they're willing to lose the client.

I don't think this company is willing to lose Uber as a client.

People keep overlooking that Uber is the client here. The drivers are just tagging along for the ride.

When Uber offers a rider one million dollars of insurance they're not doing it for our benefit. They're doing it for Uber's.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Why would uber provide tens of thousands of rides every day for which they're uninsured in the event of an accident?


because they don't. The TOS forbids them.

so test this. Call Uber and tell them you know what they're up too and you will take all minors that ping you.

let's see what happens.

better yet, put it in writing. If you're right, then nothing will happen.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Coachman said:


> An insurance company only wiggles out of paying when they're willing to lose the client.
> 
> I don't think this company is willing to lose Uber as a client.
> 
> ...


They wouldn't lose Uber. They'd lose YOU.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> They wouldn't lose Uber. They'd lose YOU.


Forget about me. Why would Uber contract with an insurance company who's not going to cover THEM in the event of accidents with minors in the car?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Forget about me. Why would Uber contract with an insurance company who's not going to cover THEM in the event of accidents with minors in the car?


unaccompanied minors you mean


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> unaccompanied minors you mean


What you have to believe is that Uber's made the decision not to purchase insurance coverage for anywhere from 20K to 50K rides every day. And that they've decided it will be more efficient and cost effective to wait for those riders to sue them in the event of an accident so that the lawyers can handle it.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Why would uber provide tens of thousands of rides every day for which they're uninsured in the event of an accident?


Because drivers don't report the Unaccompanied Minors.
Because they have culpable deniability.
Your inability to grasp this very simple concept does not invalidate it.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Just a point it is the Uber TOS that make having a UM a no go; it is NOT illegal. They could easily change the TOS or create 'Uber Kids' since Uber just loves branching out. Anyone who drives for UK, would need a real background check, you know, finger prints deep dive.

I have a UM in my car nearly everyday, however, it is via hopskipjump......Just saying


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Forget about me. Why would Uber contract with an insurance company who's not going to cover THEM in the event of accidents with minors in the car?


THEY will be covered by TOS. THEY have attorneys on retainer, possibly even staff.

Insurance companies always look for reasons not to cover. Having the driver and rider in violation of contracts with their customer (U/L) does just that, while still protecting their customer. Their attorneys, or U/L's will simply argue that the ride was in violation of contractual obligations and, so, was not a legitimate U/L ride.

Then the driver is on his/her own.

Don't violate TOS and U/L will be accountable. Their interests will be entwined with yours, and you will have a powerful ally.

Again, the chances are small that something will go sideways. But when they do......


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> You misunderstood my point. I never suggested uber would cover minors because it's in the drivers' interest. They will cover minors because it's in their interest. It really is. There's no conceivable reason uber would want tens of thousand of teeny boppers riding to and from high school every day uninsured. It's beyond comprehension. But that's what you have to believe if you take the minors are uninsured position.
> 
> Uber's primary reason for insuring riders isn't to protect you. It's to protect them.


Uber May or may not cover the minors. The people here are worried if they will cover the drivers.



Coachman said:


> What you have to believe is that Uber's made the decision not to purchase insurance coverage for anywhere from 20K to 50K rides every day. And that they've decided it will be more efficient and cost effective to wait for those riders to sue them in the event of an accident so that the lawyers can handle it.


Uber can simply respond that not a single one of those was an Uber ride.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Because drivers don't report the Unaccompanied Minors.
> Because they have culpable deniability.
> Your inability to grasp this very simple concept does not invalidate it.


Do you relieve believe Uber isn't responsible for the actions of its drivers?



Demon said:


> Uber can simply respond that not a single one of those was an Uber ride.


But they took the money.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Do you relieve believe Uber isn't responsible for the actions of its drivers?
> 
> 
> But they took the money.


unknowingly took the money because the driver shirked it's duty.

fixed it for ya.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> unknowingly took the money because the driver shirked it's duty.
> 
> fixed it for ya.


So when a minor walks into Sam's liquor store and buys a six pack the owner can say it wasn't a Sam's sale because their policy prohibits it. It was the clerk's mistake. They're not responsible. Smart thinking.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> So when a minor walks into Sam's liquor store and buys a six pack the owner can say it wasn't a Sam's sale because their policy prohibits it. It was the clerk's mistake. They're not responsible. Smart thinking.


the rider didn't walk into Uber headquarters.

next

oh, and you are not an Uber employee.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> the rider didn't walk into Uber headquarters.
> 
> next
> 
> oh, and you are not an Uber employee.


You keep forgetting Uber takes the money. That makes it an Uber ride. Regardless of where you are or what you're called.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> You keep forgetting Uber takes the money. That makes it an Uber ride. Regardless of where you are or what you're called.


Coors brewing company sells six packs to a distributor, who sells six packs to Sams Liquor. Sams liquor knowingly sells to a minor.

Sams liquor made a profit, the distributor made a profit and Coors brewing company made a profit.

the only entity that broke the law, and is responsible for selling to a minor is Sams Liquor.

Does this really require yet more explanation?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

BigRedDriver said:


> unknowingly took the money because the driver shirked it's duty.
> 
> fixed it for ya.


This!



Coachman said:


> So when a minor walks into Sam's liquor store and buys a six pack the owner can say it wasn't a Sam's sale because their policy prohibits it. It was the clerk's mistake. They're not responsible. Smart thinking.


The clerk is an employee.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> The clerk is an employee.


We are contract help. Companies are liable for the actions of contractors they hire. Where do you people get the idea that they aren't?

If you hire a general contractor to remodel your home, and he hires a plumber to to some work, and the plumber floods your house... guess who you can sue? The general contractor.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> We are contract help. Companies are liable for the actions of contractors they hire. Where do you people get the idea that they aren't?
> 
> If you hire a general contractor to remodel your home, and he hires a plumber to to some work, and the plumber floods your house... guess who you can sue? The general contractor.


That's another apples and oranges comparison. In your scenario did the contractor's insurance tell him to only hire certified plumbers or else they wouldn't cover him and the contractor went out and hired someone uncertified?
The question here isn't who is responsible, the question is will insurance cover the driver if something goes wrong?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

@Coachman
I suggest you give up on arguing with these people.

They're so convinced that they're right that they'll keep shouting at you, and they'll keep telling you that "You're wrong, you're wrong!"

"Oh, but you're taking a big risk! I wouldn't do it with my money!"

If they were only just concerned about their own money, they'd make sure you understood the risk, and then would STFU.

No, they want to be right. Or more accurately, they're really sure they're right, and they want you to admit it. They want you to grovel.

It's a lot like national politics these days. I'm not saying which side is equivalent to which -- that's irrelevant to what I'm saying.

This is a fight you can walk away from. It's not worth arguing with true believers.

Eric Hoffer said "You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you."


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> You keep forgetting Uber takes the money. That makes it an Uber ride. Regardless of where you are or what you're called.


Coors brewing company sells six packs to a distributor, who sells six packs to Sams Liquor. Sams liquor knowingly sells to a minor.

Sams liquor made a profit, the distributor made a profit and Coors brewing company made a profit.

the only entity that broke the law, and is responsible for selling to a minor is Sams Liquor.

Does this really require yet more explanation


Christinebitg said:


> @Coachman
> I suggest you give up on arguing with these people.
> 
> They're so convinced that they're right that they'll keep shouting at you, and they'll keep telling you that "You're wrong, you're wrong!"
> ...


somebody appears to think it's appropriate to deal with minors when you have been told not too.

okiedockie then.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> @Coachman
> I suggest you give up on arguing with these people.
> 
> They're so convinced that they're right that they'll keep shouting at you, and they'll keep telling you that "You're wrong, you're wrong!"
> ...


Of course when we ask you or Coachman to back up this claim with some evidence you get very quiet.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> @Coachman
> I suggest you give up on arguing with these people.
> 
> They're so convinced that they're right that they'll keep shouting at you, and they'll keep telling you that "You're wrong, you're wrong!"
> ...


I'm not trying to convince them. I'm trying to convince all those who may be reading who have an open mind.



Demon said:


> Of course when we ask you or Coachman to back up this claim with some evidence you get very quiet.


I have a waybill for each ride that I do that contains the insurance information for the trip. That's my evidence.

It's now up to you to prove that that insurance information is void for some trips.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I'm not trying to convince them. I'm trying to convince all those who may be reading who have an open mind.
> 
> 
> I have a waybill for each ride that I do that contains the insurance information for the trip. That's my evidence.
> ...


And you've told Uber before the ride started that you were transporting someone who did not have an account and Uber told you in writing that it would still insure you as the driver.....?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> And you've told Uber before the ride started that you were transporting someone who did not have an account and Uber told you in writing that it would still insure you as the driver.....?


This is Uber's customer I'm transporting. They signed up with Uber and Uber matched me for the ride. They're using Uber's app. Uber sent me a waybill for the trip. And Uber is collecting their money.

How much clearer does this get?


----------



## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

Maybe just a little bit clearer...


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> This is Uber's customer I'm transporting. They signed up with Uber and Uber matched me for the ride. They're using Uber's app. Uber sent me a waybill for the trip. And Uber is collecting their money.
> 
> How much clearer does this get?


So the answer to that is "no". You're still comparing apples and oranges.


----------



## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

I think it more like comparing $3 to $3.75.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> This is Uber's customer I'm transporting. They signed up with Uber and Uber matched me for the ride. They're using Uber's app. Uber sent me a waybill for the trip. And Uber is collecting their money.
> 
> How much clearer does this get?


you keep forgetting the part about Uber telling you that if you show up, and the passenger is not over 18 that you may not take them.

Hell Coachman, they even pay you not to take them!


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> you keep forgetting the part about Uber telling you that if you show up, and the passenger is not over 18 that you may not take them.
> 
> Hell Coachman, they even pay you not to take them!


Uber knows the next driver will take them. Or the one after that. Uber gets paid for the ride eventually.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Uber knows the next driver will take them. Or the one after that. Uber gets paid for the ride eventually.


And?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> And?


Uber is going to make sure they're fully covered in case of an accident.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I did a rough calculation recently and estimated that about 35,000 minors take rideshares every day. The numbers are huge.


Your estimate might be low. Only the algorithm knows for sure.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Uber is going to make sure they're fully covered in case of an accident.


Uber is. Read the TOS

I don't care about Uber.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> Uber is. Read the TOS
> 
> I don't care about Uber.


It's the ride that's covered. And that protects not only Uber, but the passenger and the driver as well, along with any bystanders or property.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> somebody appears to think it's appropriate to deal with minors when you have been told not too.


Someone thinks we're required to check IDs, when that's not the case.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Someone thinks we're required to check IDs, when that's not the case.


when picking up at schools, it's the only way.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Someone thinks we're required to check IDs, when that's not the case.


Cite on that?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> Cite on that?


So you'd like me to show you that something isn't there?


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Someone thinks we're required to check IDs, when that's not the case.


No one thinks you're *required* to check IDs. Even a bartender isn't *required* to check IDs. If s/he doesn't, however, they are fully responsible if something goes wrong.

Same for drivers. Rep at the NJ Lyft "office" at the Paterson, NJ Pep Boys looked it up when I asked about it. No auto coverage if the pax is an unaccompanied minor. Driver will be on his/her own, should the insurance company deny coverage for breach of contract, and, since Lyft has a rule of no unaccompanied minors, it would take them maybe all of 2 days to be removed from the lawsuit, with the driver and the parents left to slug it out.

Would the driver be held responsible? Not wholly. After all, the kid/parents violated TOS, too. So probably 51%. After all, the driver is an adult, and should know better. In some states that means paying 51% of the damages. In others, it still means 100%.

And even if the driver wins, s/he will still be out legal fees.

Must be nice to "have it like that" where you can just throw it away over something so easily avoided. There are many other charities that are much more worthy, though. You may want to look into them -- see if there's one that means something to you.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> Same for drivers.


Except it's not the same. There are criminal penalties for serving alcohol to someone under 21.

I think we've already covered this in enough detail.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> No one thinks you're *required* to check IDs. Even a bartender isn't *required* to check IDs. If s/he doesn't, however, they are fully responsible if something goes wrong.
> 
> Same for drivers. Rep at the NJ Lyft "office" at the Paterson, NJ Pep Boys looked it up when I asked about it. No auto coverage if the pax is an unaccompanied minor. Driver will be on his/her own, should the insurance company deny coverage for breach of contract, and, since Lyft has a rule of no unaccompanied minors, it would take them maybe all of 2 days to be removed from the lawsuit, with the driver and the parents left to slug it out.
> 
> ...


Which is pretty close to what my insurance agent said.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Except it's not the same. There are criminal penalties for serving alcohol to someone under 21.
> 
> I think we've already covered this in enough detail.


No one has said it was legal to serve alcohol to minors.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> No one has said it was legal to serve alcohol to minors.


"It's the same! It's the same!"

Yeah, some people have.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> when picking up at schools, it's the only way.


I once picked up a young woman at an apartment. I didn't think twice about it. Half way through the ride she mentioned that she just turned sixteen. What do you do? Do you finish the trip or pull over and let a minor out on the sidewalk?



SuzeCB said:


> No auto coverage if the pax is an unaccompanied minor. Driver will be on his/her own, should the insurance company deny coverage for breach of contract, and, since Lyft has a rule of no unaccompanied minors, it would take them maybe all of 2 days to be removed from the lawsuit, with the driver and the parents left to slug it out


If it's that easy for Uber to slip out then the driver only needs to say "the minor violated my policy as a driver" and "Uber violated my policy by hooking me up with a minor" and he won't be responsible either. Breech of contract.

See how easy that is?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> I once picked up a young woman at an apartment. I didn't think twice about it. Half way through the ride she mentioned that she just turned sixteen. What do you do? Do you finish the trip or pull over and let a minor out on the sidewalk?
> 
> 
> If it's that easy for Uber to slip out then the driver only needs to say "the minor violated my policy as a driver" and "Uber violated my policy by hooking me up with a minor" and he won't be responsible either. Breech of contract.
> ...


you do understand statistics and probabilities? Right.

there is a much higher probability that the person that picks up a young looking female at a high school that that person is a minor.

it's the difference in an honest mistake, and ignoring the obvious.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Half way through the ride she mentioned that she just turned sixteen. What do you do? Do you finish the trip or pull over and let a minor out on the sidewalk?


And if you put her out on the sidewalk at a random location:

1. You've put her in a much riskier position.
and
2. You've created a much greater potential liability for yourself.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> you do understand statistics and probabilities? Right.
> 
> there is a much higher probability that the person that picks up a young looking female at a high school that that person is a minor.
> 
> it's the difference in an honest mistake, and ignoring the obvious.


That doesn't address my question. Do you continue with the ride? Or do you end it immediately as an unauthorized, uninsured trip?



Christinebitg said:


> And if you put her out on the sidewalk at a random location:
> 
> 1. You've put her in a much riskier position.
> and
> 2. You've created a much greater potential liability for yourself.


That's arguable. If you drop her off at the nearest safe location, such as McDonalds, then you've ended your liability. Unless now you're going to argue that you have an obligation to get her to her destination. And what would be the argument for that? She employed your services knowing that she was under age. Are you saying that once she stepped into your car she was under your care? What created this burden of care, if not for the Uber contract? If the Uber contract is void, then isn't also your obligation to get her to the destination?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> That doesn't address my question. Do you continue with the ride? Or do you end it immediately as an unauthorized, uninsured trip?
> 
> 
> That's arguable. If you drop her off at the nearest safe location, such as McDonalds, then you've ended your liability. Unless now you're going to argue that you have an obligation to get her to her destination. And what would be the argument for that? She employed your services knowing that she was under age. Are you saying that once she stepped into your car she was under your care? What created this burden of care, if not for the Uber contract? If the Uber contract is void, then isn't also your obligation to get her to the destination?


Sorry dude, you're looking for ways to justify bad behavior.

not playing that game.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> Sorry dude, you're looking for ways to justify bad behavior.
> 
> not playing that game.


The premise was you pick up a minor unknowingly and find out mid trip. Not bad behavior. It's a real situation that happened to me.

What do you do?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> And if you put her out on the sidewalk at a random location:
> 
> 1. You've put her in a much riskier position.
> and
> 2. You've created a much greater potential liability for yourself.


nope, not if you check I. D.

which I did maybe 100 times.4.95 on Uber. 5.0 on lyft.

keep playin your games.



Coachman said:


> The premise was you pick up a minor unknowingly and find out mid trip. Not bad behavior. It's a real situation that happened to me.
> 
> What do you do?


False premise. As I've already stated, I win the game SIMPLY (and it is really really simple) by checking I. D.

next.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Coachman said:


> If the Uber contract is void, then isn't also your obligation to get her to the destination?


You're referring to a legal obligation.

I'm referring to a moral one.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Uber actually wants you to pick up high school kids. The money they pay spends just as well as money from old heads.

The rules are said with a "wink wink" to protect Uber from liability.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> False premise. As I've already stated, I win the game SIMPLY (and it is really really simple) by checking I. D.
> 
> next.


You check the ID of every young person that gets in your car? I don't believe it.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> "It's the same! It's the same!"
> 
> Yeah, some people have.


Who said it was legal to serve minors alcohol?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> You check the ID of every young person that gets in your car? I don't believe it.


they didn't get in my car unless they could verify age. Especially at schools. Look too young ? Show me ID. It's pretty simple


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Uber has said it's the drivers job. What do you have to prove it's someone else's job?



Coachman said:


> It's the ride that's covered. And that protects not only Uber, but the passenger and the driver as well, along with any bystanders or property.


Cite on that?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> Uber has said it's the drivers job.


Show me.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Cite on that?


That's how insurance works. You buy personal insurance for the vehicle. The insurance follows the car during a trip. And it provides coverage for injuries to the driver, the passenger, other motorists or bystanders, the vehicles involved and any property damage. So in the event of an accident there's no shortage of people who are prepared to sue you. And they're even more prepared to sue Uber because Uber has the deep pockets. And Uber saying "we're not responsible because the rider didn't follow our TOS" I don't think is going to be a very effective defense.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me.


I've already posted it in this thread.



Coachman said:


> That's how insurance works. You buy personal insurance for the vehicle. The insurance follows the car during a trip. And it provides coverage for injuries to the driver, the passenger, other motorists or bystanders, the vehicles involved and any property damage. So in the event of an accident there's no shortage of people who are prepared to sue you. And they're even more prepared to sue Uber because Uber has the deep pockets. And Uber saying "we're not responsible because the rider didn't follow our TOS" I don't think is going to be a very effective defense.


So you're still changing the subject and you still have nothing to back you up. 
We're not talking about the pax being covered, we're talking about the driver being covered.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> The premise was you pick up a minor unknowingly and find out mid trip. Not bad behavior. It's a real situation that happened to me.
> 
> What do you do?


I finish the ride and report them to Uber.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> I've already posted it in this thread.
> 
> 
> So you're still changing the subject and you still have nothing to back you up.
> We're not talking about the pax being covered, we're talking about the driver being covered.


What are you suggesting? That you pick up a minor and get in an accident and that Uber's insurance will cover the minor's injuries but not yours? Seriously?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> What are you suggesting? That you pick up a minor and get in an accident and that Uber's insurance will cover the minor's injuries but not yours? Seriously?


Do you have anything that says they will?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Do you have anything that says they will?


Yes. I have a waybill with an insurance certificate number. I can show it to you if you'd like. What do you have to show me?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Yes. I have a waybill with an insurance certificate number. I can show it to you if you'd like. What do you have to show me?


You really don't like answering direct questions. So here we go again, before the ride started you contacted Uber and told them you were going to transport a non-passenger and they replied in writing they were cool with that?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Yes. I have a waybill with an insurance certificate number. I can show it to you if you'd like. What do you have to show me?


even if you breached the contract with Uber?

it's a risk only the foolish would knowingly take.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> even if you breached the contract with Uber?
> 
> it's a risk only the foolish would knowingly take.


In the four years I've been posting on this board I've never seen one member come here and say that they were ever penalized for driving an unaccompanied minor. So I'd say the risk is pretty low. It's probably about as likely as having a female pax claim I assaulted her. In other words, it's possible but the risk is so remote as to be negligible.

I'm not advocating that anybody take minors. But I believe the hype and misinformation about them is unnecessary.


----------



## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me.


This is an email from Uber off of another message stream in the Insurance board:

Annalyn (Uber)

Dec 27, 13:57

Hi Patricia,

Annalyn here, stepping in for Edron. Happy to help.

All the users of the Uber app must be 18 yrs old or older, this means that any rider younger than 18 yrs old is not covered by insurance. If there are minors, there should be an adult accompanying them on the trip.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to reach out.


----------



## Seaview (Oct 24, 2019)

I'm a very new driver. Yesterday I got a ping and the pax looked young and I asked them their age.They weren't 18, but said it was his own Uber account. I told them I couldn't drive them and his buddy slammed my car door when they got out.

In the future, if they have their own Uber account, is it OK to drive them? If not, why is Uber issuing accounts to people that we shouldn't pick up?

Thanks


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Complete and utter BS. Driving for a 17 year old does not void your insurance coverage.


Would bet any amount of money you're wrong. It's called an exclusion. Exclusion's are 100%.

Call an attorney or your insurance broker. I have, on my end, and validated. So, will gladly collect my $4.80 fee, while taking a short breather.


----------



## EmmDee (Sep 6, 2019)

This underage thing is out of control! Last week they sent me to a junior high - or I guess they call it middle school now. Really, a parent is going to allow a twelve-year-old to get in the car with a stranger? Every time they do this they should be indicted for child endangerment and neglect!! Great idea someone had to just sit there and collect the no-show fee. That's my new strategy from now on, and I'll also be doing it for no car seats for infants. I'm sick to death of these kids and their parents bawling me out for not being a day care center! Screw Uber for putting us in that position to begin with. Whoever suggested this, brilliant.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Coachman said:


> That's how insurance works. You buy personal insurance for the vehicle. The insurance follows the car during a trip. And it provides coverage for injuries to the driver, the passenger, other motorists or bystanders, the vehicles involved and any property damage. So in the event of an accident there's no shortage of people who are prepared to sue you. And they're even more prepared to sue Uber because Uber has the deep pockets. And Uber saying "we're not responsible because the rider didn't follow our TOS" I don't think is going to be a very effective defense.


Have worked with insurance for past 30 years. And NOT once when an exclusion is in the policy has the insurance company covered.

That's right, not one freaking time. You DON'T know insurance.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

yeah, most personal auto insurance EXCLUDES commercial use. So, one gets a RS insurance rider. Not sure if all insurance companies offer, but State Farm does.....


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OCUberGuy said:


> This is an email from Uber off of another message stream in the Insurance board:
> 
> Annalyn (Uber)
> 
> ...


Who is Annalyn? That might as well be from Rohit.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

OCUberGuy said:


> All the users of the Uber app must be 18 yrs old or older, this means that any rider younger than 18 yrs old is not covered by insurance.


Let's look carefully at this for a moment, shall we?

It says the RIDER is not covered.

Does that say the driver isn't covered? No, it does not.

This all assumes, of course, that you can depend on the information you're getting from Uber's "Support." That's a separate issue, of course.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Let's look carefully at this for a moment, shall we?
> 
> It says the RIDER is not covered.
> 
> ...


That email is obviously hastily written and most likely not backed up with any fact. That's assuming it's even a real email.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Coachman said:


> That email is obviously hastily written and most likely not backed up with any fact. That's assuming it's even a real email.


Yeah, I'm not exactly seeing it as legally enforceable.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Yeah, I'm not exactly seeing it as legally enforceable.


I don't know if it's the same one, but there was a nearly identical email from support floating around a few years ago. It's meaningless as far as I'm concerned. Like I said before, it might as well be from Rohit.

There was also another support email that said essentially the opposite of what that one said.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Let's look carefully at this for a moment, shall we?
> 
> It says the RIDER is not covered.
> 
> ...


And I take it that you trust Uber to do the right thing on your behalf? -o:


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> In the four years I've been posting on this board I've never seen one member come here and say that they were ever penalized for driving an unaccompanied minor. So I'd say the risk is pretty low. It's probably about as likely as having a female pax claim I assaulted her. In other words, it's possible but the risk is so remote as to be negligible.
> 
> I'm not advocating that anybody take minors. But I believe the hype and misinformation about them is unnecessary.


Which proves nothing. Why would a driver come here and admit they deliberately ignored Uber's rule?

Oh wait. I guess drivers are admitting that right in this thread.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

goneubering said:


> Which proves nothing. Why would a driver come here and admit they deliberately ignored Uber's rule?


If you were an Uber driver who didn't visit this forum, would you know anything about a policy regarding minors?


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you were an Uber driver who didn't visit this forum, would you know anything about a policy regarding minors?


Not when I started four years ago. But ignorance isn't an excuse. Now I know the policy so I refuse minors. Of course Uber needs to do a much better job excluding minors from the system. Right now it's a mess on all sides.


----------



## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

SHalester said:


> yeah, most personal auto insurance EXCLUDES commercial use. So, one gets a RS insurance rider. Not sure if all insurance companies offer, but State Farm does.....


I agree. When i started my insurance company told me straight up they will not cover me if they know I drive u/l. Found new insurance company that does.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

goneubering said:


> Not when I started four years ago. But ignorance isn't an excuse. Now I know the policy so I refuse minors. Of course Uber needs to do a much better job excluding minors from the system. Right now it's a mess on all sides.


I'm just not a real stickler for the rules. I don't always ask what's in the red cup and I don't always ask for the age, height and weight of that child you've got with you with no car seat.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Let's look carefully at this for a moment, shall we?
> 
> It says the RIDER is not covered.
> 
> ...


good lord

if the rider is not covered.........

YOU ARE NOT GIVING A RIDE!


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> good lord
> 
> if the rider is not covered.........
> 
> YOU ARE NOT GIVING A RIDE!


So when Uber takes the rider's money they don't have to declare it?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> So when Uber takes the rider's money they don't have to declare it?


Im sure they will give it back when you call them and tell them you breached your contract by giving a minor a ride.

here's betting you won't.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

RideshareUSA said:


> ....that can lead to deactivation if the rider is a minor. Duh!


Since Uber doesn't let minors sign up for an account, might it be reasonable for a driver to assume that all short people are just midgets and not minors?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> Im sure they will give it back when you call them and tell them you breached your contract by giving a minor a ride.
> 
> here's betting you won't.


I have never knowingly breached my contract. I just give rides to the people Uber hooks me up with. And you know what? Uber always takes their money.


----------



## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Since Uber doesn't let minors sign up for an account, might it be reasonable for a driver to assume that all short people are just midgets and not minors?


The only reasonable conclusion one should arrive at, is never pair the words "reasonable" and "Uber" together. ?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> I have never knowingly breached my contract. I just give rides to the people Uber hooks me up with. And you know what? Uber always takes their money.


okay. Do it. I don't care.


----------



## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Wow what a thread. I dont know what's more entertaining; the smarmy cheeky posts or the in your face smash mouth type posts. Until U/L are forced in some fashion to "fix" this issue it will continue to be a shyte pile for everyone. I'm surprised no one even commented on the article posted on the thread about the 12 yr old in Florida that committed suicide after taking an Uber ride. Sad.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I'm just not a real stickler for the rules. I don't always ask what's in the red cup and I don't always ask for the age, height and weight of that child you've got with you with no car seat.


Each driver has to decide how much risk they're willing to take. I think it's foolish to take minors but since Uber doesn't seem serious about fixing the problem I understand why some drivers feel the way they do.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

vtcomics said:


> Wow what a thread. I dont know what's more entertaining; the smarmy cheeky posts or the in your face smash mouth type posts. Until U/L are forced in some fashion to "fix" this issue it will continue to be a shyte pile for everyone. I'm surprised no one even commented on the article posted on the thread about the 12 yr old in Florida that committed suicide after taking an Uber ride. Sad.


Its been brought up in other threads on this subject.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> okay. Do it. I don't care.


You know what? I've also been picking up at the airport for almost two years without an airport sticker.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I'm just not a real stickler for the rules. I don't always ask what's in the red cup and I don't always ask for the age, height and weight of that child you've got with you with no car seat.


So you see no problem with putting everything you own at risk as you failed to conform to the rules and take that kid without a car seat? No problem being responsible for that kid's medical bills for the rest of your life? Because unlike the 17 year old minor there should be no question a kid without a car seat will make you 100% liable.

It's so funny that you can't see how stupid this logic is. You are willing to put your financial future at risk over your firm position of non-conformity? That is nothing short of amazing.

Now usually I'd say knock yourself out. I tried to warn you but if you want to take such a risk go ahead and be stupid, not my problem. But it's drivers like you that make this so much harder for the rest of us who are not this foolish. We hear "this has never been a problem before" thanks to drivers like you.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Who is Annalyn? That might as well be from Rohit.


She's Edron's wife. Enron is Rohit's brother. Rohit had laryngitis, and Edron had to take a restroom break, so Annalyn stepped in. Their family's dedication to driver support is legendary.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Coachman said:


> I have never knowingly breached my contract.


Nor have I.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> So you see no problem with putting everything you own at risk


If a person really thought this was the case, they would never get into an automobile, let alone drive for U/L.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> But it's drivers like you that make this so much harder for the rest of us who are not this foolish. We hear "this has never been a problem before" thanks to drivers like you.


If you think this is hard, you're not doing it right.


----------



## chris.nella2 (Aug 29, 2018)

Ummmm...nope

because they are a tech company and available for all...**sarcasim***


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> If you think this is hard, you're not doing it right.


Never said this job was hard, it's actually very easy. No I said your actions make denying the ride harder for those of us who do not wish to put our financial future at risk for a $5 ride. I noticed you really didn't have a response to that part of my post, which really was the most important part of the post.


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Catty Patty said:


> It we're not supposed to take these pax, why do we have to wait the 5 minutes before canceling?


Maybe because if not, there are drivers who would roll up to the pick up point, cancel straight away for unaccompanied minor or no car seat even if that wasn't the case, collect the fee and drive off. Also, maybe 5 minutes gives the minor the chance to get an adult family member etc, to come along, or a pax the chance to find a car seat.


----------



## AcSlater (Oct 22, 2019)

I read over this whole thread and can’t believe people are arguing for the sake of arguing... pretty clear what to do in the info provided...

1. If the pax looks a bit under 18, or is carrying a backpack during usual school hours when you pick em up at a location. Check ID 

2. If they straight up look like a minor without adult don’t take the ride regardless.

3. Wait out 5 mins and collect cancellation at all times.

Thanks for everyone debating this in the thread. Made my decision and procedure for the future clear. I don’t care about uber,and it doesn’t care about my well being. Will never take the gamble for a ride. A no brainer considering the cancellation fee...

If we were all smart and more civilized as a ant colony... we could actually ban together and milk this cancellation fee in TOS... If every uber driver cancels and takes the fee from the minors that use uber in a day, Uber would lose out on a lot of money... 10k-50k underaged passengers a day transported (according to someone’s figure on here if it’s accurate)... plus they have to pay the 10k-50k individual $3.75 cancellation fees they owe us. At most $187,500 In one day. (50,000 cancellations at $3.75)

Even more if you consider the pax would prob try to request another ride to be denied again. $187k X 2 = $374k in one day in fees to us ants. If we do this for a week (7 days)...they would need to pay us $2.6 million in cancellation fees. Plus they lost out on the pax’s income which is waaaay more... we didn’t do anything wrong. Just following the rules in the TOS.

In a month going by that rough math, they would of paid 9.1 million in cancellation fees to us lol. At that point they might as well buy insurance for minors.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

AcSlater said:


> arguing for the sake of arguing.


that's the entire forum!!!!


----------



## MiamiUberGuy5 (Feb 20, 2019)

You realize the kids usually order uber from outside the school right? They can cross the street and no more fence


----------



## MarkR (Jul 26, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You know what? I've also been picking up at the airport for almost two years without an airport sticker.


what is an airport sticker? I don't even have uber sign for the windshield. LOL


----------



## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


You haven't heard? Unaccompanied Minors. You are a reason they keep on ordering rides that the rest of us have to cancel.



MiamiUberGuy5 said:


> You realize the kids usually order uber from outside the school right? They can cross the street and no more fence


They also order from their houses, friends, Hangouts, and everywhere.



New2This said:


> If they're minors don't do it. Straight from Rohit's mouth
> 
> View attachment 366306


I get so many unaccompanied minors that they stopped sending this email after I cancel.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

MiamiUberGuy5 said:


> You realize the kids usually order uber from outside the school right? They can cross the street and no more fence


Some do but I cancel all rides that are across from high schools. Of course that still doesn't solve the problem for when they request rides from many other locations.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Never said this job was hard, it's actually very easy. No I said your actions make denying the ride harder for those of us who do not wish to put our financial future at risk for a $5 ride. I noticed you really didn't have a response to that part of my post, which really was the most important part of the post.


I don't take drunks. That's my choice. Your choice to drive drunks or to not drive drunks has no bearing on my experience.


----------



## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

I do not know why any 18 year olds would not rush to have ID that shows their age. So when they look young and have none I do not take them. I found several offering their school ID. Turns out, some schools put birthdates on the ID. No birthdate, no ride, if they happen to be of age. When they are old enough, I feel the rating to be in jeopardy. So many sites do the age screening. Why the heck can't Uber?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

LADryver said:


> I do not know why any 18 year olds would not rush to have ID that shows their age. So when they look young and have none I do not take them. I found several offering their school ID. Turns out, some schools put birthdates on the ID. No birthdate, no ride, if they happen to be of age. When they are old enough, I feel the rating to be in jeopardy. So many sites do the age screening. Why the heck can't Uber?


How could Uber screen for age?


----------



## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Demon said:


> How could Uber screen for age?


For starters, in account sign-ups, put in a field called "Date of Birth". You have seen this commonly on websites. This is a screen. Young people prone to decieving would be asked for proof of age. Reason is because they are not allowed to have an account until they come of age.


----------



## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

LADryver said:


> For starters, in account sign-ups, put in a field called "Date of Birth". You have seen this commonly on websites. This is a screen. Young people prone to decieving would be asked for proof of age. Reason is because they are not allowed to have an account until they come of age.


Great idea! At least the liability would be thrown back on them!


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

LADryver said:


> For starters, in account sign-ups, put in a field called "Date of Birth". You have seen this commonly on websites. This is a screen. Young people prone to decieving would be asked for proof of age. Reason is because they are not allowed to have an account until they come of age.


most kids I ever were pinged to at a high school were using a parents account.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

LADryver said:


> For starters, in account sign-ups, put in a field called "Date of Birth". You have seen this commonly on websites. This is a screen. Young people prone to decieving would be asked for proof of age. Reason is because they are not allowed to have an account until they come of age.


What stops someone from lying about their age?


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I don't take drunks. That's my choice. Your choice to drive drunks or to not drive drunks has no bearing on my experience.


Driving drunks does not violate the law or void your insurance, I have no idea why you would even bring them up.

It's hilarious that you can't see how wrong you are here. Let's try this one more time, maybe you will get it this time.

When you take minors you tell riders that it's OK. When those of us not dumb enough to risk financial ruin for a $7 ride try to refuse we are met with "this has never been a problem" or "you are an asshole" thanks to ignorant drivers such as yourself. This makes it difficut for those of us trying to do the right thing.

I'm still laughing that your position is based on you not being a stickler for rules. Does that apply to not paying taxes? Running red lights or stealing from stores because you don't want to follow rules? Come on man......


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Running red lights or stealing from stores because you don't want to follow rules?


Show me where it's against the law to drive with an unaccompanied minor in your car.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> Show me where it's against the law to drive with an unaccompanied minor in your car.


Not sure where you even got that. The guy said he does not conform to rules. Well laws are rules. Just wondering which rules he feels are OK to ignore and which are not. Personally one that could is in place by the people who pay us, a rule that could ruin you financially should you ignore it, would be a rule I would think most would follow but obviously that's not the case here.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Driving drunks does not violate the law or void your insurance, I have no idea why you would even bring them up.
> 
> It's hilarious that you can't see how wrong you are here. Let's try this one more time, maybe you will get it this time.
> 
> ...


There's a benefit versus risk analysis for all those activities. And stealing, for instance, has a high penalty. It is also morally wrong. Running red lights also has a very high risk of disaster.

When it comes to driving high school aged teens you are greatly exaggerating the risk involved. I'd feel much safer driving a 17 y/o a few miles than blowing though a red light at 40 mph. Plus, there's absolutely nothing morally wrong about driving a teenager. Unless you consider breaking the TOS morally bankrupt..

I don't personally care whether you take minors or not. Why you careso much about what others do is beyond me.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> There's a benefit versus risk analysis for all those activities. And stealing, for instance, has a high penalty. It is also morally wrong. Running red lights also has a very high risk of disaster.
> 
> When it comes to driving high school aged teens you are greatly exaggerating the risk involved. I'd feel much safer driving a 17 y/o a few miles than blowing though a red light at 40 mph. Plus, there's absolutely nothing morally wrong about driving a teenager. Unless you consider breaking the TOS morally bankrupt..
> 
> I don't personally care whether you take minors or not. Why you careso much about what others do is beyond me.


Because as they have pointed out, it effects other drivers.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Because as they have pointed out, it effects other drivers.


Many of the drivers who complain about being inconvenienced by minors brag about hanging out at the high school shuffling and collecting cancellation fees. That, I consider morally bankrupt. That's stealing, IMHO.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Many of the drivers who complain about being inconvenienced by minors brag about hanging out at the high school shuffling and collecting cancellation fees. That, I consider morally bankrupt. That's stealing, IMHO.


I agree that hanging out at schools just to get cancellation fees is low rent. But do you really believe drivers spend their afternoons looking for 3.75 cancel fees that involve the hassle of dealing with riders or their parents who insist it's never been a problem before thanks to drives such as yourself? Come on now. .

What I do know is drivers like you who break the rules and put everything at risk makes it a whole lot harder for the responsible drivers who don't feel like dealing with "what's the problem?" This has been explained to you multiple times, yet you still ask why I care that you do this.

As for me exaggerating the risk you have done nothing to prove that you will be covered should you be in a wreck. All you have done is question those who have been told this is the case as you brag about not conforming to rules. At this point in time you have absolutely no idea if you are covered or not. If you honestly can't see the risk here I have no idea what you are thinking. that is nothing short of insane.


----------



## AcSlater (Oct 22, 2019)

I carded a dude that looked under 18 today. Picked him up from a dance class around 10pm , the ride was booked by someone else that texted me and said he would come out. Thought it was his mom that booked the ride for her son...turned out dude was 21 and his gf booked the ride lol. Ended up a good ride with tip as he understood as he used to be a uber ant too


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> do you really believe drivers spend their afternoons looking for 3.75 cancel fees that involve the hassle of dealing with riders or their parents who insist it's never been a problem before


Do I believe them? They say that they do.

Since I'm not planning to do something like that, I don't have to decide whether I believe them or not.


----------



## AcSlater (Oct 22, 2019)

What’s the exact procedure that one should follow... for getting the cancellation fee? I mean I know you gotta let the timer run after you arrive Then cancel and select the unaccompanied minor reason.... but what if kid cancels ride before it runs out?


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

AcSlater said:


> What's the exact procedure that one should follow... for getting the cancellation fee? I mean I know you gotta let the timer run after you arrive Then cancel and select the unaccompanied minor reason.... but what if kid cancels ride before it runs out?


That's what you want so you don't have to wait around and deal with the phone calls asking you to cancel so they won't get the fee. If they cancel after 2 minutes from the time the ride has been accepted, which is nearly always the case as it takes us a few minutes to arrive at the pick up and then the time to explain why you can't take the ride, you will get the cancel fee.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> What I do know is drivers like you who break the rules and put everything at risk makes it a whole lot harder for the responsible drivers who don't feel like dealing with "what's the problem?" This has been explained to you multiple times, yet you still ask why I care that you do this.


I'm sorry but I don't believe this is a major hassle for any driver. I drive during the afternoon during the peak of school letting out hours and going to after-school job hours and I just don't run into that many young riders. Off hand I can't even think of the last time I picked up at a school.

And lets suppose you get a request and it turns out to be a high school. You can cancel and what does it cost you? Five minutes of your time? And if you shuffle it's cost you nothing.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Not sure where you even got that. The guy said he does not conform to rules. Well laws are rules. Just wondering which rules he feels are OK to ignore and which are not. Personally one that could is in place by the people who pay us, a rule that could ruin you financially should you ignore it, would be a rule I would think most would follow but obviously that's not the case here.


she does that because it's the only way she can defend the indefensible

annoying and boring at the same time.



Coachman said:


> I'm sorry but I don't believe this is a major hassle for any driver. I drive during the afternoon during the peak of school letting out hours and going to after-school job hours and I just don't run into that many young riders. Off hand I can't even think of the last time I picked up at a school.
> 
> And lets suppose you get a request and it turns out to be a high school. You can cancel and what does it cost you? Five minutes of your time? And if you shuffle it's cost you nothing.


If it's not a major hassle for many drivers, then why are there so many claiming it is?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> If it's not a major hassle for many drivers, then why are there so many claiming it is?


People have been whining about minors ever since I joined this board. It's a popular issue to whine about.

All they have to do is shuffle and collect the fee. What's the issue?


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> People have been whining about minors ever since I joined this board. It's a popular issue to whine about.
> 
> All they have to do is shuffle and collect the fee. What's the issue?


getting called away from better gigs cuz ants will take anything.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> getting called away from better gigs cuz ants will take anything.


So it's not the morals of the situation, it's purely a profit motive. Okay.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> So it's not the morals of the situation, it's purely a profit motive. Okay.


Technically it's your lack of morals which winds up hurting other drivers.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> So it's not the morals of the situation, it's purely a profit motive. Okay.


Nice deflection.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> Technically it's your lack of morals which winds up hurting other drivers.


So now picking up an unaccompanied minor is "immoral"?

And by extension, doing so unknowingly is too?


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


Uber wants kids picked up, they just can't say it because of liability problems. So they aren't going to be likely to do that.

Further, there are adults in high schools too, custodians, contractors, vice prinicpals, who might want a ride to or from the school.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> So now picking up an unaccompanied minor is "immoral"?
> 
> And by extension, doing so unknowingly is too?


It could be argued that it is, since you agreed not to... if you do, then it involves a lie, and lying is, generally, considered to be immoral.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I'm sorry but I don't believe this is a major hassle for any driver. I drive during the afternoon during the peak of school letting out hours and going to after-school job hours and I just don't run into that many young riders. Off hand I can't even think of the last time I picked up at a school.
> 
> And lets suppose you get a request and it turns out to be a high school. You can cancel and what does it cost you? Five minutes of your time? And if you shuffle it's cost you nothing.


Yeah not sure how many drivers need to be quoted as saying it is a big problem before you get it. I hear "this has never been a problem before" nearly every time. In fact I have heard exactly one time "no problem". As I drive days I have to deal with this issue constantly.

I had a rider call me an A-hole, another mentioned that I was white as if that had anything to do with it. This is crap we should not have to deal with but we do, nearly every time, thanks to drivers such as yourself.



Coachman said:


> So it's not the morals of the situation, it's purely a profit motive. Okay.


Your arguments are getting weaker by the page. Do we really need to defend our desire to maximize profits as we drive? You do realize this is a business right?

You have got to be kidding me. To take the time to drive to a pick up, which takes you offline and unavailable for other (better) rides, only to deal with this hassle and then the annoying waiting out of the timer for a lousy 3.75, is not the way to maximize our profits. And I won't apologize one bit for trying to earn as much as possible.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> So now picking up an unaccompanied minor is "immoral"?
> 
> And by extension, doing so unknowingly is too?


1. Yes

2. Maybe.

anymore deflections in your deflection bag o tricks?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Yeah not sure how many drivers need to be quoted as saying it is a big problem before you get it.


Oh I get it, believe me. If you don't want the ride, wait your five minutes and collect your $4. It's not a big problem. You can't make it a big problem if you try.


> Your arguments are getting weaker by the page.


I'm just responding to the lame arguments I'm handed.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> 1. Yes
> 
> 2. Maybe.
> 
> anymore deflections in your deflection bag o tricks?


You are so full of it!

Since WHEN is it immoral to have an underaged passenger riding in my car?

And how is it that you supposedly get to impose your twisted idea of morality on me, saying that somehow I have an obligation to card my riders to make sure they're old enough??


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Oh I get it, believe me. If you don't want the ride, wait your five minutes and collect your $4. It's not a big problem. You can't make it a big problem if you try.
> 
> I'm just responding to the lame arguments I'm handed.


Again it's not just waiting out the timer. It's going through the hassle of putting up with the BS that drivers like you have created, I have to listen to "what's your problem A-hole" constantly. I am forced to drive away and hope they don't follow me, which has happened, as I wait out this endless timer. I miss better paying jobs as I deal with this nonsense. All for 3.75. And again there is a liability issue, again you do not know that you are covered in the event of an accident. You think you are but the truth is you do not know.

All of this has been explained to you numerous times. At this point it's obvious that you just aren't gonna get it.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> You are so full of it!
> 
> Since WHEN is it immoral to have an underaged passenger riding in my car?
> 
> And how is it that you supposedly get to impose your twisted idea of morality on me, saying that somehow I have an obligation to card my riders to make sure they're old enough??


If that is required to fulfill your contract, then that is what is required. It is the right thing to do. And pretty simple to do.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> If that is required to fulfill your contract, then that is what is required. It is the right thing to do. And pretty simple to do.


Complete and utter nonsense.

And... have you never, ever blown off a rider, shuffled them? For no good reason, other than you didn't feel like it?

Have you never started a trip before you ever arrived, so that you could see where the destination is?

I'm sure we can both come up with things that people have done that are not in strict compliance with "the contract." And I'll bet you wouldnt label those things as "immoral."

Have you called drivers here on this site for that stuff and told them they're acting immorally? Seriously.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Complete and utter nonsense.
> 
> And... have you never, ever blown off a rider, shuffled them? For no good reason, other than you didn't feel like it?
> 
> ...


this isn't about me, or shuffling any given rider. But to answer your question, no I've never simply shuffled a rider just because I didn't feel like taking them.

OBTW: I never brought morals into this discussion in the first place.

and yes, I've called drivers out on a number of occasions, just yesterday it was service dogs.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Every time I come to this board I am reminded of just how many bad drivers there are out there. Why we are even arguing about taking minors is nothing short of amazing to me. If you really are dumb enough to believe you are covered in the event of an accident when the truth is you really have no idea if you are covered or not, well those just are the words of someone who is..... I better stop here.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Every time I come to this board I am reminded of just how many bad drivers there are out there. Why we are even arguing about taking minors is nothing short of amazing to me. If you really are dumb enough to believe you are covered in the event of an accident when the truth is you really have no idea if you are covered or not, well those just are the words of someone who is..... I better stop here.


I have a waybill with an insurance certificate for the ride. That's how I know I'm covered.

Nobody has ever come to this board and demonstrated otherwise.

The whole minor thing is a bunch of hype.

Let me ask you this... in the 3+ years you've been posting here, have you seen one driver come to report that they got into trouble with a minor? And I'm not talking about bad behavior.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I have a waybill with an insurance certificate for the ride. That's how I know I'm covered.
> 
> Nobody has ever come to this board and demonstrated otherwise.
> 
> ...


You can't believe there's zero risk in what you're doing.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I have a waybill with an insurance certificate for the ride. That's how I know I'm covered.
> 
> Nobody has ever come to this board and demonstrated otherwise.
> 
> ...


As a point of fact you don't have that.

Just because no one has come on the board doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I've posted articles where the driver got in trouble for taking a minor and not for bad behavior.

You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> As a point of fact you don't have that.
> 
> Just because no one has come on the board doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
> 
> ...


Having a waybill is a fact. Saying the waybill is invalid is an opinion.

The lack of posts here doesn't prove problems can't happen. But it suggests the risk is negligible.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Having a waybill is a fact. Saying the waybill is invalid is an opinion.
> 
> The lack of posts here doesn't prove problems can't happen. But it suggests the risk is negligible.


Believing this way bill covers you is also an opinion. As we keep explaining to you the fact is you really don't know if you are covered and given the consequences it's absolutely crazy to take that risk for a $7 ride. And again when you do that you make it more difficult for the drivers who chose not to take that risk for the reasons I have spelled out for you. The odds are tremendously long that we will have a problem, which is no doubt why you have not heard of it from other drivers. But again it's just not worth the risk.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> But again it's just not worth the risk.


There's no evidence at all that it's an increased risk. We're just supposed to take your word for it.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> There's no evidence at all that it's an increased risk.


When you asked your insurance agent about it what did they tell you?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> When you asked your insurance agent about it what did they tell you?


During the ride we are covered by Uber's Progressive insurance policy. Surely you can look through that policy and point me to the exclusion for minors.

Either that or you can link to a legitimate source explaining Uber's insurance policy with regard to minors.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> During the ride we are covered by Uber's Progressive insurance policy. Surely you can look through that policy and point me to the exclusion for minors.
> 
> Either that or you can link to a legitimate source explaining Uber's insurance policy with regard to minors.


You didn't answer the question.

Unaccompanied minors are not passengers.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> You didn't answer the question.
> 
> Unaccompanied minors are not passengers.


I've been doing this for four years now. Every time somebody on this board says minors aren't insured I just ask them to show me. They never do.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I've been doing this for four years now. Every time somebody on this board says minors aren't insured I just ask them to show me. They never do.


I pointed out days ago. That's not what we're discussing.

You still haven't answered my question.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Having a waybill is a fact. Saying the waybill is invalid is an opinion.
> 
> The lack of posts here doesn't prove problems can't happen. But it suggests the risk is negligible.


a waybill means nothing if you are breach of contract


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> a waybill means nothing if you are breach of contract


So tell me how UNKNOWINGLY transporting an unaccompanied minor is a breach of the contract on the part of the driver.

The contract between the driver and Uber.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> So tell me how UNKNOWINGLY transporting an unaccompanied minor is a breach of the contract on the part of the driver.
> 
> The contract between the driver and Uber.


Question: Did you know the rider was a minor?

Answer: No

Question: why didn't you know the rider was a minor?

Answer: Not my duty to check

Question: Are you aware rideshare prohibits drivers from taking unaccompanied minors?

Answer: Yes

Question: Did you ask the rider for ID?

Answer: No

Question: Why not?

Answer: it makes me uncomfortable

Do I need to go on?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> Question: Why not?
> 
> Answer: because I didn't feel like it, and am not obligated to.


FIFY.

Done now.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> FIFY.
> 
> Done now.


you've never been deposed I see.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> you've never been deposed I see.


I *live* with a trial lawyer. My entire life is like a deposition at times.

I do not have a duty to check IDs.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> I *live* with a trial lawyer. My entire life is like a deposition at times.
> 
> I do not have a duty to check IDs.


So you'd take an unaccompanied 3 year old then, because anyone with a rational mind would not need to check to see if it violated their agreement?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> I pointed out days ago. That's not what we're discussing.


You haven't shown any evidence that minors aren't covered by insurance.


> You still haven't answered my question.


What? About calling my insurance company?

When you show me where in our Uber insurance documents it says anything about minors, I'll call my insurance company and ask them to review it.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> You haven't shown any evidence that minors aren't covered by insurance.
> 
> What? About calling my insurance company?
> 
> When you show me where in our Uber insurance documents it says anything about minors, I'll call my insurance company and ask them to review it.


why would you need to know about Uber's coverage to call you're insurance company?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> why would you need to know about Uber's coverage to call you're insurance company?


If you believe uber's insurance doesn't cover unaccompanied minors, show me. It's not up to me to prove otherwise.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> If you believe uber's insurance doesn't cover unaccompanied minors, show me. It's not up to me to prove otherwise.


more deflection on your part. Ask your insurance company if they will cover you when you breach the contract.

Seems that scares you.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> more deflection on your part. Ask your insurance company if they will cover you when you breach the contract.
> 
> Seems that scares you.


You're trying to shift the burden to me when you can't back up your claim. It's a classic message board technique.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> You're trying to shift the burden to me when you can't back up your claim. It's a classic message board technique.


Not at all. Ive asked my insurance agent the question. He quoted quite clearly that I would not be covered if I deliberately was in breach of my contract with them.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I've been doing this for four years now. Every time somebody on this board says minors aren't insured I just ask them to show me. They never do.


Here's why I don't take the risk. Uber says they provide nationwide insurance for "covered" trips. It must be very important because they repeat the phrase five times at this link.



https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/



When you ignore Uber's TOS about minors you could potentially be taking trips that aren't covered. Just one crash could ruin your life.

You should ask Uber's customer service for a definitive answer in writing but they probably won't do it. They seem happy to have this gray area because they make so much money from rides given to minors.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> Not at all. Ive asked my insurance agent the question. He quoted quite clearly that I would not be covered if I deliberately was in breach of my contract with them.


What did your insurance agent say would happen if you unknowingly picked up a minor?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> What did your insurance agent say would happen if you unknowingly picked up a minor?


there is no reason to unknowingly.......

ESPECIALLY AT A SCHOOL


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> there is no reason to unknowingly.......
> 
> ESPECIALLY AT A SCHOOL


The only rider I've given that I knew was under age was indeed unknowingly. I picked up a young female at an apartment complex. She hopped in the back. I only got a quick glimpse of her. She easily could have been 19 or 20. I honestly didn't give her age a second thought. She was just another young woman to me.

Half way through the ride she mentioned that she just had her 16th birthday.

If you don't card everybody consistently then you really don't know.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> Question: Are you aware rideshare prohibits drivers from taking unaccompanied minors?


U mean Uber/Lyft, right?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> The only rider I've given that I knew was under age was indeed unknowingly. I picked up a young female at an apartment complex. She hopped in the back. I only got a quick glimpse of her. She easily could have been 19 or 20. I honestly didn't give her age a second thought. She was just another young woman to me.
> 
> Half way through the ride she mentioned that she just had her 16th birthday.
> 
> If you don't card everybody consistently then you really don't know.


taking any unaccompanied minor is against the TOS. I am not about to risk it. Look young, got ID'd.



SHalester said:


> U mean Uber/Lyft, right?


yes


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> taking any unaccompanied minor is against the TOS. I am not about to risk it. Look young, got ID'd.


Just curious... how many times a day do you ID, on average? I've done 4,500 trips and never ID'd anybody.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

None. I quit driving in July. When I did drive? During school, maybe 4 times a day. Summer, at least once a day


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

BigRedDriver said:


> None. I quit driving in July. When I did drive? During school, maybe 4 times a day. Summer, at least once a day


Hmmm... I figure the day I quit driving will be my last day on this board.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Hmmm... I figure the day I quit driving will be my last day on this board.


Good for you.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> If you believe uber's insurance doesn't cover unaccompanied minors, show me. It's not up to me to prove otherwise.


You still haven't answered the question. 
That's still not what we're discussing. 
If you have proof that U/L cover you when you're not driving one of their passengers you could post it.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> You still haven't answered the question.
> That's still not what we're discussing.
> If you have proof that U/L cover you when you're not driving one of their passengers you could post it.


I have a waybill with a certificate of insurance. How many times do we have to go over this?

If your argument is that that certificate is invalid, show me.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I have a waybill with a certificate of insurance. How many times do we have to go over this?
> 
> If your argument is that that certificate is invalid, show me.


It's not for a U/L passenger, so yes, it doesn't mean anything.

Still haven't answered my question.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> It's not for a U/L passenger, so yes, it doesn't mean anything.


That's your opinion.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I have a waybill with a certificate of insurance. How many times do we have to go over this?
> 
> If your argument is that that certificate is invalid, show me.


Here is the point you keep ignoring. The truth is NONE of us know the answer for sure, that should be obvious. So since you don't know for sure why on Earth would you take such a risk for such a small payout? Does that sound like a smart thing to do, honestly?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BigRedDriver said:


> So you'd take an unaccompanied 3 year old


I didn't say that.

But I have picked up at a high school, and I would do it again.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Here is the point you keep ignoring. The truth is NONE of us know the answer for sure, that should be obvious. So since you don't know for sure why on Earth would you take such a risk for such a small payout? Does that sound like a smart thing to do, honestly?


I've addressed this repeatedly. I don't believe your assertion that it's a big risk. I think it's actually a very negligible risk. And I think your risk of getting assaulted by a random passenger is much greater than your risk of having your insurance denied in an accident with a minor.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I've addressed this repeatedly. I don't believe your assertion that it's a big risk. I think it's actually a very negligible risk. And I think your risk of getting assaulted by a random passenger is much greater than your risk of having your insurance denied in an accident with a minor.


Can you show me an example of an assault by a PAX that left someone in financial ruin? Risk does not just mean what's more likely to happen, it also includes what you have to lose. Perhaps you have no money or assets, I had not thought of that until just now. But going through life with personal bankruptcy on your resume is a tough road to haul. All this for a $5 ride and you still don't see the problem?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I've addressed this repeatedly. I don't believe your assertion that it's a big risk. I think it's actually a very negligible risk. And I think your risk of getting assaulted by a random passenger is much greater than your risk of having your insurance denied in an accident with a minor.


Contacting & asking your insurance agent would remove any doubt.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Contacting & asking your insurance agent would remove any doubt.


If I were to call my USAA representative and ask him whether Uber's Progressive policy will cover me in the event of an accident with a minor I'm about 100% certain that he will tell me to contact Uber/Progressive.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Can you show me an example of an assault by a PAX that left someone in financial ruin? Risk does not just mean what's more likely to happen, it also includes what you have to lose. Perhaps you have no money or assets, I had not thought of that until just now. But going through life with personal bankruptcy on your resume is a tough road to haul. All this for a $5 ride and you still don't see the problem?


If you talk about not taking minors because it's against the TOS, that's a serious argument. If you talk about financial ruin it's hard to take seriously.

For a long time on this board posters used to argue that if you take a minor you open yourself up to a sexual assault claim and that that will ruin your life... that argument seems to have for the most part disappeared.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> If I were to call my USAA representative and ask him whether Uber's Progressive policy will cover me in the event of an accident with a minor I'm about 100% certain that he will tell me to contact Uber/Progressive.
> 
> 
> If you talk about not taking minors because it's against the TOS, that's a serious argument. If you talk about financial ruin it's hard to take seriously.
> ...


When you contacted Uber/Progressive what did they say?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> When you contacted Uber/Progressive what did they say?


If you've been watching the board over the years, you know that Sharon or Rohit in support will give varying responses depending on the time of day. It's pretty obvious that they're pulling responses out of their arses.

Feel free to get an official ruling from Uber's legal team. You can post it here and be the hero to many. But good luck with that.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> If you talk about not taking minors because it's against the TOS, that's a serious argument. If you talk about financial ruin it's hard to take seriously.


It is so bizarre that you think you are right here. Granted Uber Support is a joke but I was definitely told if you take an underage minor you have no coverage. So at least there's that, all you have provided is your opinion with nothing to back it up.

So there is definitely a possibility that you will have no coverage and I would think most rational thinking people would take that seriously. If you do not think the parents of a kid injured in an Uber ride won't sue I suggest you think again. And again if you don't think insurance companies will use anything at their disposal to get out of paying a huge claim you obviously know nothing about insurance companies and how they operate. And seeing as this is a clear violation of the TOS that's probably all the ammo they need, it is absolutely crazy for you to believe they won't take advantage of that.

So we are back to where we have remained. You are willing to take the risk with nothing but your opinion on your side. That's your choice but it's kind of crazy to be critical of those who think you are being reckless.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> It is so bizarre that you think you are right here. Granted Uber Support is a joke but I was definitely told if you take an underage minor you have no coverage. So at least there's that, all you have provided is your opinion with nothing to back it up.
> 
> So there is definitely a possibility that you will have no coverage and I would think most rational thinking people would take that seriously. If you do not think the parents of a kid injured in an Uber ride won't sue I suggest you think again. And again if you don't think insurance companies will use anything at their disposal to get out of paying a huge claim you obviously know nothing about insurance companies and how they operate. And seeing as this is a clear violation of the TOS that's probably all the ammo they need, it is absolutely crazy for you to believe they won't take advantage of that.
> 
> So we are back to where we have remained. You are willing to take the risk with nothing but your opinion on your side. That's your choice but it's kind of crazy to be critical of those who think you are being reckless.


My argument all along is that the risk, in my opinion, is negligible.

You can't provide a single example of a driver losing insurance coverage by taking an unaccompanied minor. Not one.

I've never suggested anybody take a suspected minor if they don't feel comfortable.

Nobody will make you pick up from a high school.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Can you show me an example of an assault by a PAX that left someone in financial ruin?


If your rider murders you, that would be an example, wouldn't it?


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## headshot (Jun 2, 2017)

New2This said:


> If they're minors don't do it. Straight from Rohit's mouth
> 
> View attachment 366306


What age constitutes a minor?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> If your rider murders you, that would be an example, wouldn't it?


If it's a teenager going to Walmart, don't do it!!!!


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

headshot said:


> What age constitutes a minor?


Under 18


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## i9f3479f3h (May 29, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


They don't want to pick up a minor...or wait 20 minutes behind all the parents.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> My argument all along is that the risk, in my opinion, is negligible.
> 
> You can't provide a single example of a driver losing insurance coverage by taking an unaccompanied minor. Not one.
> 
> ...


And I can't find a single example of someone losing everything they own in a house fire. That's no reason for someone to not carry homeowner's insurance. Of course the risk is negligible, so it the risk of a house burning down or you developing a huge health issue. That's no reason to avoid the risk by carrying insurance. It's the same thing here. You are right, the odds of you getting burned are very very long. That is a stupid reason for taking such a risk.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> And I can't find a single example of someone losing everything they own in a house fire. That's no reason for someone to not carry homeowner's insurance. Of course the risk is negligible, so it the risk of a house burning down or you developing a huge health issue. That's no reason to avoid the risk by carrying insurance. It's the same thing here. You are right, the odds of you getting burned are very very long. That is a stupid reason for taking such a risk.


It literally happens every day.

But you're asking the wrong question. How many homeowners have fire insurance on their home, then after a blaze the company informs them that they won't honor the policy because some term had been violated?








i9f3479f3h said:


> They don't want to pick up a minor...or wait 20 minutes behind all the parents.


Waiting 20 minutes is a different angle. I won't normally wait 20 minutes in a school traffic lane. Though I've been tricked into it a couple times by parents picking up their children.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> It literally happens every day.
> 
> But you're asking the wrong question. How many homeowners have fire insurance on their home, then after a blaze the company informs them that *they won't honor the policy because some term had been violated?*
> 
> ...


I'll leave that for you to think about.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> I'll leave that for you to think about.


It's all about risk. Obviously we share a different perspective of the risk here. And I think Uber does everything to minimize their own risk. Think about that for a while.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> It's all about risk. Obviously we share a different perspective of the risk here. And I think Uber does everything to minimize their own risk. Think about that for a while.


Thought about it a lot. Again, we're not talking about Uber reducing their risk, we're talking about drivers reducing their risks.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Thought about it a lot. Again, we're not talking about Uber reducing their risk, we're talking about drivers reducing their risks.


Your risk and Uber's go hand in hand here. If there's an accident the passenger will hold both responsible. Regardless of age.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Your risk and Uber's go hand in hand here. If there's an accident the passenger will hold both responsible. Regardless of age.


Not at all. There are some drivers who don't have anything to lose. Again the issue here is will the TNC cover the driver if they don't have a PAX in the car.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Again the issue here is will the TNC cover the driver if they don't have a PAX in the car.


If the TNC takes the rider's payment, does that make it an official ride?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> If the TNC takes the rider's payment, does that make it an official ride?


No.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> It literally happens every day.
> 
> But you're asking the wrong question. How many homeowners have fire insurance on their home, then after a blaze the company informs them that they won't honor the policy because some term had been violated?


And I could pull many examples of insurance companies not paying a claim if I spent about 15 seconds researching. You are ignoring the very real point that insurance companies will most definitely do what they can to get out of paying a big settlement. And you better believe violating the terms and taking an underage rider who is not the account holder is probably all they will need.

If you pick up at a high school that only adds to the problem as it's going to be pretty hard to pretend you didn't know the rider was underage. As we discussed even if you are in an unusual school district that MAY have some 18 year old seniors in October (when this discussion started) the fact is that's a very small percentage of all the students at that school. So it will definitely appear as if you knowingly took an underage rider because it's the truth, you have made it perfectly clear that you are willingly taking an underage rider.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Demon said:


> There are some drivers who don't have anything to lose.


Whether some driver is "judgment proof" doesn't affect the equation.

Also, some of you guys are confused about who provides the coverage. If there are lawsuits getting filed, Uber is one of the insured. They don't have any input into whether the insurance company is going to cover the driver.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Whether some driver is "judgment proof" doesn't affect the equation.
> 
> Also, some of you guys are confused about who provides the coverage. If there are lawsuits getting filed, Uber is one of the insured. They don't have any input into whether the insurance company is going to cover the driver.


This is a huge corporate policy and Uber and Progressive have negotiated all the details to the nth degree. Uber knows exactly who and what will be covered for every ride.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

the never ending circular debate thread.

and to think there is a RS offit that the entire biz model is driving minors around: HopSkpDrive (they pay better too, btw)


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Uber knows exactly who and what will be covered for every ride.


Let me rephrase that to be more specific.

Once the coverage is placed, it is whatever it is. Once that's done, Uber doesn't decide whether something is covered or not.


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## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

I definitely prefer picking up college students... They usually in a surge Zone and pay through the nose


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Let me rephrase that to be more specific.
> 
> Once the coverage is placed, it is whatever it is. Once that's done, Uber doesn't decide whether something is covered or not.


That doesn't seem 100% accurate.

Uber says they provide nationwide insurance for "covered" trips. That means there could be trips that aren't covered for some unknown reason.

"Covered" trips must be a VERY important term because they repeat the phrase five times at this link.

https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

goneubering said:


> That doesn't seem 100% accurate.
> 
> Uber says they provide nationwide insurance for "covered" trips. That means there could be trips that aren't covered for some unknown reason.
> 
> ...


"Covered trip" and "covered accident" refer to phase II and phase III of the rideshare operation. Phase I activities are not covered by the TNC. In other words if you are out driving around with the app on waiting for a request and get in an accident that's not a covered trip or covered accident. At least it's not fully covered, depending on your personal insurance rideshare policy.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> "Covered trip" and "covered accident" refer to phase II and phase III of the rideshare operation. Phase I activities are not covered by the TNC. In other words if you are out driving around with the app on waiting for a request and get in an accident that's not a covered trip or covered accident. At least it's not fully covered, depending on your personal insurance rideshare policy.


I don't think so. Read it carefully. All I did was add the quotation marks. It's talking about a covered trip with you and a passenger. So there must be other examples where you have a passenger but the trip isn't covered.

I'm only speculating but trips that aren't covered by Uber might include taking a child without a carseat in some states. It might include taking six passengers when you only have five seatbelts. And it might include picking up a 15 year old kid at high school. Since the wording is vague I'm not going to take the risk.

Notice also the last sentence where it says insurance "may" apply. They don't give you a guarantee of coverage.

You seem locked in to your position so I doubt you will change. But I hope others reading reading this thread will use caution.
_

*Uninsured/underinsured motorist bodily injury insurance*

Insurance for injuries to you and your riders if a "covered" accident occurs during an Uber trip and another driver is at fault and doesn't have sufficient insurance. This insurance also may apply in the case of a hit and run._


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

goneubering said:


> I don't think so. Read it carefully. All I did was add the quotation marks. It's talking about a covered trip with you and a passenger. So there must be other examples where you have a passenger but the trip isn't covered.
> 
> I'm only speculating but trips that aren't covered by Uber might include taking a child without a carseat in some states. It might include taking six passengers when you only have five seatbelts. And it might include picking up a 15 year old kid at high school. Since the wording is vague I'm not going to take the risk.
> 
> ...


Remember also that Uber doesn't have one insurance policy, it has fifty different insurance policies. So what's covered in one state might not be covered in another.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Remember also that Uber doesn't have one insurance policy, it has fifty different insurance policies. So what's covered in one state might not be covered in another.


Entirely possible.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Remember also that Uber doesn't have one insurance policy, it has fifty different insurance policies. So what's covered in one state might not be covered in another.


Not to mention a variety of other countries.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Remember also that Uber doesn't have one insurance policy, it has fifty different insurance policies. So what's covered in one state might not be covered in another.


I thought of you when I saw this clip. Again why on Earth would you risk de-activation and possibly financial ruin (as we sure have not concluded that Uber insurance will or will not pay out on a ride that may not be considered "covered"), that's downright crazy. And again by taking these rides you make it more difficult for drivers who try to comply as we constantly hear "this has never been a problem with other drivers".


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## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I thought of you when I saw this clip. Again why on Earth would you risk de-activation and possibly financial ruin (as we sure have not concluded that Uber insurance will or will not pay out on a ride that may not be considered "covered"), that's downright crazy. And again by taking these rides you make it more difficult for drivers who try to comply as we constantly hear "this has never been a problem with other drivers".


Boy that's for sure! It seems when Uber changed the app to show pickup location, maybe that was a try to alleviate the issue. At least you can make an intelligent choice.



OCUberGuy said:


> Boy that's for sure! It seems when Uber changed the app to show pickup location, maybe that was a try to alleviate the issue. At least you can make an intelligent choice.


One other thought, the car seat issue is a whole different battle, but actually much easier. In CA it should be a no- brained, "sorry- no."


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## ArianaL723 (Oct 29, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


It's because if caught driving a minor you could be deactivated and face other issues


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Why people get so triggered by high school students is beyond me. It's just another ride.


And your education level?


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> And your education level?


I'm not sure that's relevant, or even fair. I went after it pretty hard with @Coachman on this issue because his position makes no rational sense. He is risking de-activation and he has proven that he really does not know if his insurance will cover an accident, he is simply assuming which of course is incredibly dangerous given the ramifications if he is not in fact covered.. Taking these risks for a $4 ride makes zero sense. But I never questioned his intelligence and don't see how his level of education is relevant.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> He is risking de-activation


We are risking deactivation every time we drive. The risk of that is greater from a false report (from someone who wants their ride for free) than it is from a 17 year old high school senior.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I thought of you when I saw this clip. Again why on Earth would you risk de-activation and possibly financial ruin (as we sure have not concluded that Uber insurance will or will not pay out on a ride that may not be considered "covered"), that's downright crazy. And again by taking these rides you make it more difficult for drivers who try to comply as we constantly hear "this has never been a problem with other drivers".


This guy is no more an expert than anybody who posts on this board. It's the same tired old argument... you're risking deactivation OR WORSE by taking these rides. It's all hype.

By the way, I don't roll up with my doors locked and my window cracked to have the rider confirm my name, either.

But that's his choice. I don't care how he drives.


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## Grokit (Sep 8, 2019)

Uber is never going to geofence off schools or ask age question because it exposes them to more legal liability. 

If Uber makes even the slightest effort to keep kids out of cars, then some lawyer can argue that Uber is responsible for some kid’s death/injuries because Uber’s system broke down. There’s no f’ing way Uber is going to open themselves up to that.

Why do some drivers keep picking kids up? For the same reason that some drivers have never bought rideshare insurance.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Just sit outside the local high school when school lets out and collect the cancel fees for minors. 3 or for cancel fees and finally someone that can prove they are 18 makes for great pay even if it is a short ride. Just head back to the school and repeat. 

Next day move to a different school and repeat. That way they don't see it is you and cancel before you can collect a fee.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I'm not sure that's relevant, or even fair. I went after it pretty hard with @Coachman on this issue because his position makes no rational sense. He is risking de-activation and he has proven that he really does not know if his insurance will cover an accident, he is simply assuming which of course is incredibly dangerous given the ramifications if he is not in fact covered.. Taking these risks for a $4 ride makes zero sense. But I never questioned his intelligence and don't see how his level of education is relevant.


Fine, will go with that. No worries.
&#128077;


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## BayArea Lyft Driver (Feb 26, 2015)

Why not hang around highs schools and collect cancel fees. Don't waste gas. Its $5/min and you don't have to drive anywhere!


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

BayArea Lyft Driver said:


> Why not hang around highs schools and collect cancel fees. Don't waste gas. Its $5/min and you don't have to drive anywhere!


How bout you try it out? And let us know. 
&#128077;


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> This guy is no more an expert than anybody who posts on this board. It's the same tired old argument... you're risking deactivation OR WORSE by taking these rides. It's all hype.
> 
> By the way, I don't roll up with my doors locked and my window cracked to have the rider confirm my name, either.
> 
> But that's his choice. I don't care how he drives.


End the hype and prove everyone else wrong.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Grokit said:


> Uber is never going to geofence off schools or ask age question because it exposes them to more legal liability.
> 
> If Uber makes even the slightest effort to keep kids out of cars, then some lawyer can argue that Uber is responsible for some kid's death/injuries because Uber's system broke down. There's no f'ing way Uber is going to open themselves up to that.
> 
> Why do some drivers keep picking kids up? For the same reason that some drivers have never bought rideshare insurance.


And because they're making $ by looking the other way. I still say this will end badly for them someday.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> This guy is no more an expert than anybody who posts on this board. It's the same tired old argument... you're risking deactivation OR WORSE by taking these rides. It's all hype.
> 
> By the way, I don't roll up with my doors locked and my window cracked to have the rider confirm my name, either.
> 
> But that's his choice. I don't care how he drives.


You really leave the door unlocked when you are waiting on a Pax? Wow, another poor decision.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> You really leave the door unlocked when you are waiting on a Pax? Wow, another poor decision.


He is unbelievable. Makes all drivers look bad.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> He is unbelievable. Makes all drivers look bad.


He can drive any way he wants, what do I care if a thug hops in his unlocked car or he gets fired for breaking the rules? But when drivers constantly take underage riders, which they are obviously doing, it makes it hard on us who have to hear "this wasn't a problem with the other drivers".


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> You really leave the door unlocked when you are waiting on a Pax? Wow, another poor decision.


During the day, why not? In the burbs?


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> He can drive any way he wants, what do I care if a thug hops in his unlocked car or he gets fired for breaking the rules? But when drivers constantly take underage riders, which they are obviously doing, it makes it hard on us who have to hear "this wasn't a problem with the other drivers".


Yes, totally agree. Hear the same exact line as you do with every "unaccompanied minor" request.

Try to avoid even talking to the parents if I can. When I do, start my conversation with "know all the other drivers do and I don't. I do not drive w/o insurance. Period" Then hang up, abruptly and cancel.

Then always write up a complaint, and sometimes call support. All this extra time during morning commute hours are what's extremely frustrating.

This and multiple stops, on rides, are my main issues with Uber. Everything else is no big deal.



SHalester said:


> During the day, why not? In the burbs?


Absolutely lock doors during the daytime. Especially in suburbs. 100% around schools.

It's a great layer of protection. Each to their own on this; however, little surprised you don't understand why we do it.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Grokit said:


> Uber is never going to geofence off schools or ask age question


Well, that is certainly true.

And let's suppose that a mom is with her kid at the school. Uber isn't going to make her and the kid walk a block away. Expecting that to happen is just silliness.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> little surprised you don't understand why we do it.


For balance n contrast: I understand the whole crack window n say my name dance. I just don't subscribe to it. Schools at let out? Safest place on earth! Parents, staff, admins all around. To each their own, aye?


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SHalester said:


> For balance n contrast: I understand the whole crack window n say my name dance. I just don't subscribe to it. Schools at let out? Safest place on earth! Parents, staff, admins all around. To each their own, aye?


Wow! Not the safest, to me, by a long shot. Why would I even want these kids in my car? Particularly when 70 - 90% are sure to be unaccompanied minors?

Trust me on this, have driven RS 4 1/2 years, both ways. Keeping the doors locked is WAY easier. I mean 1000% easier. Ummm no, that an UNDERSTATEMENT!

But, in general doors locked is the way I roll. Always.

Again, each to their own.



SHalester said:


> For balance n contrast: I understand the whole crack window n say my name dance. I just don't subscribe to it. Schools at let out? Safest place on earth! Parents, staff, admins all around. To each their own, aye?


Guess if you enjoy having the entire underage discussion in your vehicle, then go for it. And waiting for them to exit as well? If those are enjoyable tasks for you, so be it.

Personally, LOVE keeping doors locked, window cracked; then, rolling it up in the middle of their response. That's fun to me! &#128513;


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Why would I even want these kids in my car?


for balance and contrast and what was wrote: Huh? Who said YOU should have kids in YOUR car, not me. You do seem to accept the pings at addresses you should know are schools, so one does wonder? Anyway, your loss. My school address pu or drop offs have been teachers or aids or other staff.

Sorry, no need to keep my doors locked, I'm not worried. If I drove at night, different story. You do YOU through the window and i'll do me in a far friendlier mode.
Congrats on doing RS for so long; I"m not aiming for that stat.

and, for more contrast and balance I have a minor in my car M-F for no less than an hour. Kids aren't the boogey man this forum makes them out to be, really. Best pax ever.

Hey, have a nice day. I know I am no Uber today. Movie time.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SHalester said:


> for balance and contrast and what was wrote: Huh? Who said YOU should have kids in YOUR car, not me. You do seem to accept the pings at addresses you should know are schools, so one does wonder? Anyway, your loss. My school address pu or drop offs have been teachers or aids or other staff.
> 
> Sorry, no need to keep my doors locked, I'm not worried. If I drove at night, different story. You do YOU through the window and i'll do me in a far friendlier mode.
> Congrats on doing RS for so long; I"m not aiming for that stat.
> ...


You do you. I'll do it MY way. All the way.

As far as address's are concerned, it's pretty hard nowadays to know for sure. When I do know, of course I don't accept.

And if you wanna take that risk, you take it. Knock yourself out! I'll enjoy my shuffle.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

SHalester said:


> During the day, why not? In the burbs?


Anywhere at any time. I drive days too and in the burbs, but that 's no reason not to do such a simply act to make sure you are safe. Crime happens in the burbs during the day too.



SHalester said:


> and, for more contrast and balance I have a minor in my car M-F for no less than an hour.* Kids aren't the boogey man this forum makes them out to be, really. Best pax ever.*
> 
> Hey, have a nice day. I know I am no Uber today. Movie time.


I didn't see anyone say the actual rider is a problem. So it's never been about the kids, it's about the risk. And being de-activated is a pretty good reason not to do a stupid thing like knowingly taking a minor. Are you really prepared to cover the accident should Uber insurance void the claim because you knowingly violated the TOS? If you know anything about how insurance companies work they will do what they can to get out of paying a claim and this appears to be a slam dunk for them. Regardless since you really don't know, none of us do obviously, it's downright foolish to take these 'boogey men" rides that could cost you your ride share job and perhaps much much more. .


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> it's about the risk


....actually it's not. It about knowingly violating the TOS every single driver agrees to. Every single other augment is secondary at best. It really is that simple.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SHalester said:


> ....actually it's not. It about knowingly violating the TOS every single driver agrees to. Every single other augment is secondary at best. It really is that simple.


No, you're wrong. The risk is out of this world because the driver is violating the TOS and in California the law.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> and in California the law.


show me the law being broke. Show me the enforcement of said law.

and your opinion is completely wrong. The first thing occurring is a driver is violating TOS; all else IS secondary. Entire point of this thread and others is drivers continue to transport UM every single day knowing they are violating the TOS.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SHalester said:


> show me the law being broke. Show me the enforcement of said law.
> 
> and your opinion is completely wrong. The first thing occurring is a driver is violating TOS; all else IS secondary. Entire point of this thread and others is drivers continue to transport UM every single day knowing they are violating the TOS.


You've been given several cites as to the law. 
You're just remaining obstinate about this. A driver breaks the TOS all that can happen is they get removed from the platform. Have something go wrong with a minor in the car the driver can get removed from their house.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> You've been given several cites as to the law


Show me, the LAW. AND show me how it is enforced. Obstinate or perfectly clear? The first act that occurs, that every single reader will agree with, is the TOS is violated the moment 'start ride' is swiped and vehicle rolls. Every other issue is secondary to the first. That is logic, not opinion. See the difference?

And additional homework, since you need assistance, explain to me how HopSkipDrive exists in Calif and many other states. Exception to the LAW?

We await.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SHalester said:


> Show me, the LAW. AND show me how it is enforced. Obstinate or perfectly clear? The first act that occurs, that every single reader will agree with, is the TOS is violated the moment 'start ride' is swiped and vehicle rolls. Every other issue is secondary to the first. That is logic, not opinion. See the difference?
> 
> And additional homework, since you need assistance, explain to me how HopSkipDrive exists in Calif and many other states. Exception to the LAW?
> 
> We await.


Again, the law has been cited for you.
If you want to do research on that other company be my guest, you're the only one trying to move the goalposts.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> Again, the law has been cited for you.


no, you haven't. Please provide the actual verbiage of the CAlif law and how it is enforced. Or if it has EVER been enforced. I've asked and you have failed to produce, so own it.
Why would I research a company I already drive for? If you can't support your opinions, just say so. The forum will understand. :whistling:


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SHalester said:


> no, you haven't. Please provide the actual verbiage of the CAlif law and how it is enforced. Or if it has EVER been enforced. I've asked and you have failed to produce, so own it.
> Why would I research a company I already drive for? If you can't support your opinions, just say so. The forum will understand. :whistling:


Again, it was cited exactly for you. You need to own that you were wrong and it is actually the law in California. 
I'm not providing opinions, I'm providing facts & backing them up with cites. 
You should research the company because obviously you have questions about them that no one else on this board does.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Even better: require photo ID which shows age and then require a photo to be displayed and verify it like they do with drivers.

IF the passenger does not look like the photo = no ride, driver not penalized.

This would also help with driver safety.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> End the hype and prove everyone else wrong.


I'm still waiting for you guys to prove that Uber insurance won't honor a claim involving a UM. That myth has been floating around the board for as long as I've been a member.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> Again, it was cited exactly for you.


no, u didn't. CPUC has no direct authority over me. So you have yet to produce the LAW and you have yet to describe how it would be enforced.
You are clearly confused on the sequence of events. The first (and only) fact that is important is knowingly starting a ride with a minor since the TOS agreed to was violated. Nothing else matters. Hard stop. You have no facts, just your opinion. The forum will understand that you are stating your opinion that has no factual base. 
Produce the law and how it has been enforced. Otherwise, the fact a driver rolled with UM is only a violation of the TOS; which is my opinion and fact. See the difference? We are still waiting.



Coachman said:


> prove that Uber insurance won't honor a claim involving a UM


another poster said the Uber insurance direclty states a UM is not covered; I haven't read the coverage, so couldn't say. But I know my RS rider does not have such an exception. BUT I wouldn't roll with a UM while on Uber app, so wouldn't apply anyway.

Uber could fix this quite quickly, they just don't want to.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SHalester said:


> another poster said the Uber insurance direclty states a UM is not covered; I haven't read the coverage, so couldn't say.


If you read the policy coverage provided on the Uber website there isn't a word about exclusions of any kind.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If you read the policy coverage provided on the Uber website there isn't a word about exclusions of any kind.


ok, I haven't read it. And other member who posted he did is really the entertainment here and not a fountain of accurate info. 

AND really insurance coverage is secondary. The primary and first item is violation of TOS occurs first. THAT is the only fact that matters.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I'm still waiting for you guys to prove that Uber insurance won't honor a claim involving a UM. That myth has been floating around the board for as long as I've been a member.


Still waiting for you to provide an ounce of evidence.



SHalester said:


> no, u didn't. CPUC has no direct authority over me. So you have yet to produce the LAW and you have yet to describe how it would be enforced.
> You are clearly confused on the sequence of events. The first (and only) fact that is important is knowingly starting a ride with a minor since the TOS agreed to was violated. Nothing else matters. Hard stop. You have no facts, just your opinion. The forum will understand that you are stating your opinion that has no factual base.
> Produce the law and how it has been enforced. Otherwise, the fact a driver rolled with UM is only a violation of the TOS; which is my opinion and fact. See the difference? We are still waiting.
> 
> ...


And the goalposts move from it isn't a law to "it doesn't apply to me".


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> "it doesn't apply to me"


I see your opinion is still lacking in factual evidence. I'm clear where I am on this. Posted way upstream and on other threads. The first, and only, issue is a driver violates TOS they agreed to when they knowingly take a minor. Nothing else matter. Not insurance, not law (there isn't one). The forum will accept that you can agree to that alone. The LAW thing, we can let slide as it is not relevant.

You can do it. Or you are are an opinionated troll.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

SHalester said:


> show me the law being broke. Show me the enforcement of said law.
> 
> and your opinion is completely wrong. The first thing occurring is a driver is violating TOS; all else IS secondary. Entire point of this thread and others is drivers continue to transport UM every single day knowing they are violating the TOS.


We all know drivers don't really care about violating the TOS if there are no ramifications. What we have been trying to explain is there are plenty of ramifications for violating this particular part of the TOS.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Still waiting for you to provide an ounce of evidence.


An ounce of evidence for what?


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/uploadedFil...rding_Unaccompanied_Minors_(June_6__2016).pdf
Rasier-CA believes that encouraging self-reporting is important in order to avoid unintended safety consequences. For example, a driver-partner might accept a trip, only to see that the passenger may be an unaccompanied minor. The driver-partner might have concerns about the rider's safety given the surrounding neighborhood, the time of day, or other factors. If so, the driver-partner may reasonably believe that the best course of action is to transport the minor, and then report the trip to allow Rasier-CA to take action against the rider account holder. Similarly, Rasier-CA's policy will be focused on driver-partners who have knowingly transported an unaccompanied minor.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> An ounce of evidence for what?


That the driver is covered if the give a ride to an unaccompanied minor.



SHalester said:


> I see your opinion is still lacking in factual evidence. I'm clear where I am on this. Posted way upstream and on other threads. The first, and only, issue is a driver violates TOS they agreed to when they knowingly take a minor. Nothing else matter. Not insurance, not law (there isn't one). The forum will accept that you can agree to that alone. The LAW thing, we can let slide as it is not relevant.
> 
> You can do it. Or you are are an opinionated troll.


You're just trolling and not adding anything to the conversation. You've moved the goalposts to an entirely different conversation.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> That the driver is covered if the give a ride to an unaccompanied minor.


I have an insurance certificate for the ride. That's my evidence of coverage.

By the way the issue of insurance has just been settled by the document @goneubering just posted. I'm going to post in another thread because it deserves its own.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> You're just trolling


Who is the troll? i asked u to backup your assertions and u can't. You just need to admit the first and only issue is an UM only violates the TOS. No other issue is relevant as they all occur after the first event. We await.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I have an insurance certificate for the ride. That's my evidence of coverage.
> 
> By the way the issue of insurance has just been settled by the document @goneubering just posted. I'm going to post in another thread because it deserves its own.


Can't have a certificate for someone who doesn't have a U/L account.



SHalester said:


> Who is the troll? i asked u to backup your assertions and u can't. You just need to admit the first and only issue is an UM only violates the TOS. No other issue is relevant as they all occur after the first event. We await.


You asked for the law, it's been posted. Yet you continue, that's the definition of trolling.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> ou asked for the law, it's been posted


Afraid nothing had been posted that is law towards a driver. If you read the thread I addressed your assertion. Verbiage of the law and enforcement. 
Or u can just agree only issue is the TOS. The first and only issue. Tata


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I have an insurance certificate for the ride. That's my evidence of coverage.
> 
> By the way the issue of insurance has just been settled by the document @goneubering just posted. I'm going to post in another thread because it deserves its own.


Correct me if I am wrong but that appears to be specific to only California.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but that appears to be specific to only California.


So you think drivers in CA are insured but drivers in other states are not? It's possible but highly unlikely.

It says right there if you're concerned about the minor go ahead and do the ride.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> So you think drivers in CA are insured but drivers in other states are not?


That's what I am trying to determine yes. And I'd also like to know if drivers in other states will get fired if the willingly take a minor. That is the basis of our discussion. If I'm wrong I'd be happy to admit it, but I need to be sure.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> That's what I am trying to determine yes. And I'd also like to know if drivers in other states will get fired if the willingly take a minor. That is the basis of our discussion. If I'm wrong I'd be happy to admit it, but I need to be sure.


Uber's policy states that if a driver has multiple reports of knowingly taking minors then they can be deactivated. There's a whole lot of wiggle room in that.

Notice they don't say anything like "if you take a UM it's not an official Uber ride."


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## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


They dont geofence pax as far as I can tell only drivers, it would be great if the would geofence pax, they could start with schools, then set it so they can only request once to the waiting area of busness hell they could geofence so pax would have to be standing at the curb to request.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but that appears to be specific to only California.


I believe that's correct.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Uber's policy states that if a driver has multiple reports of knowingly taking minors then they can be deactivated. There's a whole lot of wiggle room in that.
> 
> Notice they don't say anything like "if you take a UM it's not an official Uber ride."


*Requests from underage riders*
A rider must be at least 18 years of age to have an Uber account and request rides. Anyone under 18 must be accompanied by someone 18 years of age or older on any ride.

As a driver-partner, you should decline the ride request if you believe the person requesting the ride is under 18. When picking up riders, if you feel they are underage, you may request they provide a driver's license or ID card for confirmation. If a rider is underage, please do not start the trip or allow them to ride.


https://help.uber.com/driving-and-delivering/article/requests-from-underage-riders---?nodeId=43b84de6-758b-489e-b088-7ee69c749ccd


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> *Requests from underage riders*
> A rider must be at least 18 years of age to have an Uber account and request rides. Anyone under 18 must be accompanied by someone 18 years of age or older on any ride.
> 
> As a driver-partner, you should decline the ride request if you believe the person requesting the ride is under 18. When picking up riders, if you feel they are underage, you may request they provide a driver's license or ID card for confirmation. If a rider is underage, please do not start the trip or allow them to ride.
> ...


Uber also says the driver should use their judgment and may take the minor if they think it's the best course of action.

RASIER-CA, LLC: PLAN REGARDING UNACCOMPANIED MINORS


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## Dilf411 (Jan 27, 2020)

Some 18 year olds look young...just saying.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Dilf411 said:


> Some 18 year olds look young...just saying.


That's why you always ask for ID.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> That's why you always ask for ID.


Uber says that having drivers ask for ID is overly intrusive. "...requiring drivers to check personal identification of riders would require riders to expose substantial amounts of personally identifying information to their drivers."

RASIER-CA, LLC: PLAN REGARDING UNACCOMPANIED MINORS


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Uber says that having drivers ask for ID is overly intrusive. "...requiring drivers to check personal identification of riders would require riders to expose substantial amounts of personally identifying information to their drivers."
> 
> RASIER-CA, LLC: PLAN REGARDING UNACCOMPANIED MINORS


PAX can always choose not to show any ID.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> PAX can always choose not to show any ID.


Sure. But Uber doesn't want to make them feel uncomfortable. Uber just wants the transaction to go smoothly without hiccups.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Uber says that having drivers ask for ID is overly intrusive. "...requiring drivers to check personal identification of riders would require riders to expose substantial amounts of personally identifying information to their drivers."
> 
> RASIER-CA, LLC: PLAN REGARDING UNACCOMPANIED MINORS





Coachman said:


> Uber also says the driver should use their judgment and may take the minor if they think it's the best course of action.
> 
> RASIER-CA, LLC: PLAN REGARDING UNACCOMPANIED MINORS


Please show us where in the TOS it says that documents supersedes the TOS.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Sure. But Uber doesn't want to make them feel uncomfortable. Uber just wants the transaction to go smoothly without hiccups.


As do I. I asked one time, kid got a bit upset, and I realized I'm not going to do this anymore. I simply ask "how old are you?" and I get an honest answer usually, again because nobody seems to understand you can't take a ride under 18. Uber and Lyft should just change the age to 16. If you can drive you should be able to take a ride, and it would be of great help to parents and provide more rides for us.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> As do I. I asked one time, kid got a bit upset, and I realized I'm not going to do this anymore. I simply ask "how old are you?" and I get an honest answer usually, again because nobody seems to understand you can't take a ride under 18. Uber and Lyft should just change the age to 16. If you can drive you should be able to take a ride, and it would be of great help to parents and provide more rides for us.


Yeah... 95% of the unaccompanied minors are probably 16 or 17 y/os and basically look like young adults. I had one or two who I suspected might be younger, but that's very rare.


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

OCUberGuy said:


> So tired of getting rides in South Orange County at high schools and having to police the rides. It'd be a great public relations move for Uber to take control of this instead of placing it on the drivers.


If you are met at a pickup location by an unaccompanied minor, ask them their age. They will normally tell you the truth. If under 18, refuse them and deject "unaccompanied minor" as your reason for cancellation, and get your cancellation fee. You can also text copy of the Uber unaccompanied minor policy to the account holder. After the parents keep
In having to pay cancellation fees, they may get wise. When parents realize that their accounts can be terminated, then you will really see a change in frequency. Button Line: If you like driving for uber, Don't transport unaccompanied minor now or ever. It's that important!!!


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