# I predict rates eventually go back up



## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

There is starting to be a huge groundswell of support from pissed off paxs saying the service has gone to hell, and all the remaining drivers are shitty, & they cant get a ride to work anymore. "Willing to pay way more to make it like it was". Probably not til after the IPO though :-( I only drive Lyft now, but all my pax say "why cant I ever find an Uber anymore?" I tell them cuz all the good/smart drivers that actually built that company have figured out they are losing $! Rates are already way lower than owning a car, now he's going after the "city bus customer". Your rider base is actually saying "I dont want it to be this cheap"!
Someone please tell Travis that he has fumbled the ball!


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Anythings possible. But this would require that the Uber CEO Travis Kalanick renege on what he has promised to the most recent investors in Uber. They've been told Uber will tap into the $500 billion new car market by driving Uber rates lower than the cost of owning a car.

So unless Travis reneges (not likely giving rich people don't like it when CEOs **** with them), prices are going lower. Probably in April we will see the next nationwide drop like we did in January.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Anythings possible. But this would require that the Uber CEO Travis Kalanick renege on what he has promised to the most recent investors in Uber. They've been told Uber will tap into the $500 billion new car market by driving Uber rates lower than the cost of owning a car.
> 
> So unless Travis reneges (not likely giving rich people don't like it when CEOs **** with them), prices are going lower. Probably in April we will see the next nationwide drop like we did in January.


Rates are already lower than owning a car LOL​


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

I wish it were to go that way... but I dont see that happening. It was great when it was thought of as in between a Black car and Taxi.


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

You are right. The laws of supply and demand still work.


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## Showa50 (Nov 30, 2014)

If they're willing to pay more, than pay surge. But they won't because they're cheap and have no idea what the fare is or realize that it's a lot less than it use to be. The only thing they see is 'surge' and don't want to pay it.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

The choice is either continue cutting rates and maintain a fleet of lower quality cars and drivers OR maintain rates at around $.90 -$1.2 a mile (I know that sounds still low) in order to keep a few good drivers on the road


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Showa50 said:


> If they're willing to pay more, than pay surge. But they won't because they're cheap and have no idea what the fare is or realize that it's a lot less than it use to be. The only thing they see is 'surge' and don't want to pay it.


Right, 2x surge is actually way cheaper than what they paid last year!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Luberon said:


> The choice is either continue cutting rates and maintain a fleet of lower quality cars and drivers OR maintain rates at around $.90 -$1.2 a mile (I know that sounds still low) in order to keep a few good drivers on the road


You guys saw the post about going down to 15 year old (beater) cars, right?


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## Showa50 (Nov 30, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Right, 2x surge is actually way cheaper than what they paid last year!


This is the best thing to tell a rider if they're *****ing about paying surge. They shut up after you mention this to them, because they have no idea what the fare rate is.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

At 70c a mile beaters are the only way to go. I might find me a 2001 prius for like $1500...


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Luberon said:


> The choice is either continue cutting rates and maintain a fleet of lower quality cars and drivers OR maintain rates at around $.90 -$1.2 a mile (I know that sounds still low) in order to keep a few good drivers on the road


Anything south of $1.5/mile ur literally "eating ur car" & losing $! :-(


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Rates are already lower than owning a car LOL​


how so?
to get to where i need to go every day, it would cost me $25-$50 per day (to/from work and my personal life)
surely i can own AND maintain a car for way less than $1500/month
i can rent rental cars for less than Uber right now,and i dont have to wait every time i want to drive it
plus, paying for surges seems to be a crucial part of uber's money making. not sure how paying lots of surges would still make it cheaper than owning a car
with a car you have an asset
Uber is a service: you have nothing


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Anything south of $1.5/mile ur literally "eating ur car" & losing $! :-(


Noooooo. .o wait yes....


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> how so?
> to get to where i need to go every day, it would cost me $25-$50 per day (to/from work and my personal life)
> surely i can own AND maintain a car for way less than $1500/month
> i can rent rental cars for less than Uber right now,and i dont have to wait every time i want to drive it
> ...


First a car is a $ eating liability, never an asset.
Secondly, you might be the exception, but you chose to go with the high end, $1500 instead of $750.
My car costs me $600/month (ins. & payment) before gas & maintainence, without driving it.
If you're doing 70 miles/day, thats $8/day in gas x 25 days (some work, some just pers.) = another $200/month (would have been $400 a year ago) = $800/month total. (Woulda been $1k a year ago)
Again, you may be the exception, but I Lyft a guy every day to his work, he spends $13/day x 22 work days = $280/month, he is a huge winner!


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> with a car you have an asset


Personally I dont count a car as an asset. You will (almost) never get more out of it than you spend on it


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> First a car is a $ eating liability, never an asset.
> Secondly, you might be the exception, but you chose to go with the high end, $1500 instead of $750.
> My car costs me $600/month before gas & maintainence, without driving it.
> If you're doing 70 miles/day, thats $8/day in gas x 25 days = another $200/month = $800/month total.
> Again, you may be the exception, but I Lyft a guy every day to his work, he spends $13/day x 22 work days = $280/month, he is a huge winner!


Right. A car is a business expense.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

so a car is not an asset
so when i sell my car in 5 years......if im not selling an asset, what the heck am i selling?
smh
some cars cost more than houses,but when you sell them, its not selling an asset

some people should stick to their day job


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Luberon said:


> Personally I dont count a car as an asset. You will (almost) never get more out of it than you spend on it


You're confusing an asset with an investment.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> First a car is a $ eating liability, never an asset.
> Secondly, you might be the exception, but you chose to go with the high end, $1500 instead of $750.
> My car costs me $600/month (ins. & payment) before gas & maintainence, without driving it.
> If you're doing 70 miles/day, thats $8/day in gas x 25 days (some work, some just pers.) = another $200/month (would have been $400 a year ago) = $800/month total. (Woulda been $1k a year ago)
> Again, you may be the exception, but I Lyft a guy every day to his work, he spends $13/day x 22 work days = $280/month, he is a huge winner!


but you do know at some point, you wont have that $600/month though right? becasue unless it costs 80million dollars, you'll have paid it off
so if a kid starts uber at 18, never buys a car, and ubers until hes 85, how much money will he have spent on Uber compared to your 5 years of paying $600/month?

all i can do is shake my head at this forum


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> You're confusing an asset with an investment.


What is an asset?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> so a car is not an asset
> so when i sell my car in 5 years......if im not selling an asset, what the heck am i selling?
> smh
> some cars cost more than houses,but when you sell them, its not selling an asset
> ...


You might get some small residual, nothing worth speaking off.
Most people are upside down in their car, thats why its not an "asset".


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Luberon said:


> What is an asset?


A thing of value.

All investments are assets, but not all assets are investments.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> but you do know at some point, you wont have that $600/month though right? becasue unless it costs 80million dollars, you'll have paid it off
> so if a kid starts uber at 18, never buys a car, and ubers until hes 85, how much money will he have spent on Uber compared to your 5 years of paying $600/month?
> 
> all i can do is shake my head at this forum


There is no such thing as paying off a car in this world, after 4 years, they're all throw away beaters! Are you trying to say that you are Ubering in a paid off $100k car? (Yes, that is an asset! LOL)


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Luberon said:


> What is an asset?


right , people are re-writing definitions on here


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

I dont get it, people are saying Ubering is cheaper than owning a car already
that means, if I chose to Uber the rest of my life, it should be less than paying for and maintaining a car correct?
so if I uber for 52 years, how much money have I spent? how much would one car cost to keep 52 years? come on now

But i dont know how calling and waiting for every time I have to go somewhere, is the same as having my own car at the ready.

Even if Ubering is cheaper than owning a car, its not THE SAME as owning a car,because obviously you cant do the same thing with each. Try to put 20inch rims on the next Uber ride you get and see what happens


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> but you do know at some point, you wont have that $600/month though right? becasue unless it costs 80million dollars, you'll have paid it off
> so if a kid starts uber at 18, never buys a car, and ubers until hes 85, how much money will he have spent on Uber compared to your 5 years of paying $600/month?
> 
> all i can do is shake my head at this forum


After five years of paying $600 a month all that kid has left is $4000 piece of metal. More often than not that kid gets into the same 5 year cycle again


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

someone give me the uberpeople.net defintion of an asset. still waiting on that


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

Luberon said:


> After five years of paying $600 a month all that kid has left is $4000 piece of metal. More often than not that kid gets into the same 5 year cycle again


Unless he lived cheaply for five years and put away enough to buy a new car or at least do a decent down payment so that he won't immediately be upside down.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> A thing of value.
> 
> All investments are assets, but not all assets are investments.


After paying off a car, it is of very low relative value. Meaning its value is much less the amount spent on it. That is why I_ dont consider _a car as an asset. If I want value I invest or at least save.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Luberon said:


> After five years of paying $600 a month all that kid has left is $4000 piece of metal. More often than not that kid gets into the same 5 year cycle again


clearly everybody doesnt buy a new car every 5 years, I sure dont
50 years of ubering, how much surge pricing is included in that? still cheaper than having a car though....


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Luberon said:


> After paying off a car, it is of very low relative value. Meaning its value is much less the amount spent on it. That is why I_ dont consider _a car as an asset. If I want value I invest or at least save.


Some assets can be consumed. Cars are a perfect example. If it has value, any value, then it's an asset.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Luberon said:


> After paying off a car, it is of very low relative value. Meaning its value is much less the amount spent on it. That is why I_ dont consider _a car as an asset. If I want value I invest or at least save.


relative low value huh? dont you mean thats because you buy cheap cars?
or are you saying if i buy a Bently now, in 5 years its only worth 500 bucks?
um, an asset is an asset


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> clearly everybody doesnt buy a new car every 5 years, I sure dont
> 50 years of ubering, how much surge pricing is included in that? still cheaper than having a car though....


http://www.cnbc.com/id/49504504

Buying New, But Not As Often

We've talked for some time about Americans holding on to their new cars longer and the reasons have been well documented. Cars last longer and as their prices have gone up, people are less inclined to take on a monthly payment. Since the recession they have stretched out the length of time to pay off a new loan. In other words, people now expect to be in their car 6, 7, or 8 years after they buy it. (_Read More_: New Car Buyers Stretching Out Payments.)

That's a dramatic change from a well-established rule in the auto industry. For years, automakers counted on Americans to buy, on average, a new car or truck every 3 or 4 years. Some of that was due to our vehicles starting to show their age sooner.

"When we were younger, we had to replace vehicles out of necessity. That's not the case anymore," Pratt said. "The vehicles are much better quality, they're lasting much longer, so really, there is no need to replace vehicles."


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> someone give me the uberpeople.net defintion of an asset. still waiting on that


Ok, its technically something with positive equity.
But, as stated most people have negative equity in their cars.
Did u actually just say that u were going to drive the same car for 52 years???
Obviously you only drive BEATERS, ur star rating must be in the toilet.
My new car already has 13k miles on it, and is starting to feel OLD, :-(
But, my rating is 4.94 with both Uber & Lyft.
I will only drive Lyft now, cuz freaking Travis is PROSTITUTING his drivers!


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> relative low value huh? dont you mean thats because you buy cheap cars?
> or are you saying if i buy a Bently now, in 5 years its only worth 500 bucks?
> um, an asset is an asset


The more expensive the car you buy the less value it retains _relative to its original purchase price. _I know the technical definition @UberHammer, Even that penny under your couch is an asset going by that definition. It has value. I dont think buying a 20K asset that will be worth 4k by the time I am done paying for it is worthwhile. That is my opinion. I consider a car a liability or an expense even though it always has some residual value


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Ok, its technically something with positive equity.
> But, as stated most people have negative equity in their cars.
> Did u actually just say that u were going to drive the same car for 52 years???
> Obviously you only drive BEATERS, ur star rating must be in the toilet.
> ...


so with 13,000 miles, its worth nothing? its no longer an asset?
people can get 200,000 miles on a car and sell it,because.....its an ASSET
i cant believe people attacked me by trying to say a car isnt an asset,this is a wild board right here

but i can say the same thing about renting an apt, you have nothing
but if you own a house, you have an asset,No different than having a car,except in most fashions, a house is worth more
Uber is just a service


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Ok, its technically something with positive equity.
> But, as stated most people have negative equity in their car.


Someone can have negative net worth if their liabilities exceed the assets.

For example if some one has a car worth $8000 and a car loan of $10000, then their liabilities exceed their assets and they have a negative net worth of $2000.

That doesn't mean the car is not an asset. Of course it is. It's an asset worth $8000. It's the owner who has negative equity because he has more debt on the asset than the asset is worth.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> so with 13,000 miles, its worth nothing? its no longer an asset?
> people can get 200,000 miles on a car and sell it,because.....its an ASSET
> i cant believe people attacked me by trying to say a car isnt an asset,this is a wild board right here
> 
> ...


Its only a positive asset if you have positive equity, which is very very rare in a car.
If you do, good for you, you are in the 1%!
Did you actualy say that you Uber in a Bentley at 75C/mile? LOL


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Someone can have negative net worth if their liabilities exceed the assets.
> 
> For example if some one has a car worth $8000 and a car loan of $10000, then their liabilities exceed their assets and they have a negative net worth of $2000.
> 
> That doesn't mean the car is not an asset. Of course it is. It's an asset worth $8000. It's the owner who has negative equity because he has more debt on the asset than the asset is worth.


Call me dimwit but 10k under with a car worth 8k is a liability in my book.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Luberon said:


> Call me dimwit but 10k under with a car worth 8k is a liability in my book.


A car loan is a liability, whatever the amount that is owed.

A car is an asset, whatever amount it's worth.

Equity is the difference between their values.


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> A car loan is a liability, whatever the amount that is owed.
> 
> A car is an asset, whatever amount it's worth.
> 
> Equity is the difference between their values.


Yes.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

cant believe we had to define liablity,equity, and asset for people


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Buy a used car with decent mileage( in excellent mechanical & cosmetic condition) pay cash for it , know how to make your car make you money , yes it's a HUGE ASSET , buy a new car, finance , get a job to make payments on a item that takes a huge loss in value in the first day of ownership HUGE HUGE LIABILITY !!!!!
Both points are right depends on the person.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Buy a used car with decent mileage( in excellent mechanical & cosmetic condition) pay cash for it , know how to make your car make you money , yes it's a HUGE ASSET , buy a new car, finance , get a job to make payments on a item that takes a huge loss in value in the first day of ownership HUGE HUGE LIABILITY !!!!!
> Both points are right depends on the person.


I totally agree with this...... am giving you a virtual *hug* right now


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> cant believe we had to define liablity,equity, and asset for people


Not to mention the net present value of tax deferrals to future fiscal periods. Jeeeesh, some people.....


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## jiwagon (Feb 19, 2015)

Showa50 said:


> If they're willing to pay more, than pay surge. But they won't because they're cheap and have no idea what the fare is or realize that it's a lot less than it use to be. The only thing they see is 'surge' and don't want to pay it.


Surge really doesn't even work right. There will often times be no cars available and no surge, and then times when many cars are available and huge surges. Furthermore, I read a review where someone's app said 10x and another friend right next to them was no surge. The surge system is simply not implemented well, at all.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Showa50 said:


> This is the best thing to tell a rider if they're *****ing about paying surge. They shut up after you mention this to them, because they have no idea what the fare rate is.


When people ***** about the surge I just tell them as long as it's 3x or less it's still cheaper than a taxi.


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