# uber says dont tip your waiters



## musk for president

*ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
*The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy. 
2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
-*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
*in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


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## shiftydrake

Sorry won't work.....won't change anything


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## musk for president

do you have evidence to support your claim?


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## shiftydrake

Been laughing my azz off since I joined this board complaint about no tips and all the ways to stop the no tip From Uber.......if you want tips drive a taxi


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## musk for president

shiftydrake said:


> Been laughing my azz off since I joined this board complaint about no tips and all the ways to stop the no tip From Uber.......if you want tips drive a taxi


thats not an argument against what im saying so your not addressing what im saying.


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## shiftydrake

I actually couldn't care less what your saying.......keep thinking things are going change......best of luck to you and your thinking


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## steveK2016

I'm pretty convinced that uber manipulates rider ratings. Unless they commit a crime, they dont care if a pax doesn't tip or is an asshole. They probably ignore 1-3 star ratings Unless accompanied by a direct complaint.


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## Jufkii

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*





musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


My strategy. No tip. No pick you up ever again.My black book is filled with names and addresses.And no 5 stars either for them.


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## Uber Uber

Non tippers don't get 5 stars with me. It's that simple.


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## Lilmsmisses

Tips aside I rarely get outside stars to begin with. Literally everyone gets in my car with his eyes but every infraction that they come it reduces the rate by one starts. I'm calculating ratings from the time I pick someone up until the time I drop them off. Slam my door -1 star. Slam my trunk - another store. If you slam it again when you get out - another star. Slamming just those 3 things instantly takes you from a 5 2 a3. Anything else and you're screwed.


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## NorCalPhil

Interestingly, if you just work incentives, be smart about when you drive and what rides you take, tips become irrelevant. When you don't care about tips, the job is more pleasant, and people tip more 

And I 5 star everyone with rare exception.


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## ddelro219

i think most people knew that tips aren't common on uber's platform. we signed up for this gig with that information, so by continuing to drive for uber, that just means we accept those terms. 

if you really want to change it, stop driving for uber. as little as we feel that uber cares for its drivers, they still need drivers. no drivers? then no uber. can you get enough drivers to stop driving to be that impactful?

as long as drivers keep driving, and new drivers keep signing up, or the courts enforce a change in how uber classifies its drivers, or something of that caliber, nothing is going to change. tryign to manipulate the ratings in some form to send a message? i think it's an uphill battle that's going to take much more than this suggestion. 

my. $02


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## DriveMeNot

I agree with your method, however, there is one issue. Many riders can query for their rating now before they rate you. If you give them bad rating, they will be able to see that and take their revenge. Usually give everybody a 5 stars. Mark the trip and then after few days, contact uber to change everybody's rating. I heard from some people an Uber conspiracy. They will tell you that they did change the rating, but the fact is they don't. It is more like a feel good situation, to let you feel good as a driver without hurting the rider's rating (Not sure if it is proven).


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## Coachman

Here's the way I look at tips. I don't expect them. But when I get one I'm pleasantly surprised. It seems that's the best way to go through the day. I can't imagine being miserable and one-starring every rider who doesn't tip. Which is pretty much all of them.


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## Lilmsmisses

Coachman said:


> Here's the way I look at tips. I don't expect them. But when I get one I'm pleasantly surprised. It seems that's the best way to go through the day. I can't imagine being miserable and one-starring every rider who doesn't tip. Which is pretty much all of them.


I give bad ratings all the time and I feel just fine  .... I think that's actually WHY I feel so good.


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## Ball-In-Hand

Youre in the wrong business if you feel you should be getting tipped. Don't you understand Uber does not want there passengers tipping. Most pax think it is included. Drive for Lyft if you want tips, but I still wouldn't expect them. Just have a good attitude and drive. Tips will come here and there. But expecting them will not yield you any.

If you can't work for a dollar, work for 50 cents. If you can't work for 50 cents work for a quarter. If you don't want to work for a quarter, someone else will.


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## Shangsta

Coachman said:


> Here's the way I look at tips. I don't expect them. But when I get one I'm pleasantly surprised. It seems that's the best way to go through the day. I can't imagine being miserable and one-starring every rider who doesn't tip. Which is pretty much all of them.


Agreed



Lilmsmisses said:


> I give bad ratings all the time and I feel just fine  .... I think that's actually WHY I feel so good.


Which doesnt effect them in any way. Its like people who unfriend you on facebook "Wow you showed me!"


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## Lilmsmisses

Shangsta said:


> Agreed
> 
> Which doesnt effect them in any way. Its like people who unfriend you on facebook "Wow you showed me!"


Maybe not from the perspective of Uber. But I know myself and other drivers won't pick up passengers if the rating is low enough. If anything it may have to wait longer for pickup.


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## Shangsta

Lilmsmisses said:


> Maybe not from the perspective of Uber. But I know myself and other drivers won't pick up passengers if the rating is low enough. If anything it may have to wait longer for pickup.


I have never seen a Pax with a rating below 4.5, Uber protects their pax. You may give a one but most drivers give 5s hoping to get one back.


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## UberHammer

shiftydrake said:


> Sorry won't work.....won't change anything


In the short term, it doesn't appear to change anything at all. Over the long term, change does happen.

The tipping situation regarding Uber is not the same as it was years ago. Uber used to say in their marketing materials that "tip is included". They got sued and settled. That is no longer in their marketing materials. That is change. It's a small change, as Uber now just puts "no need to tip" in their marketing materials, but it is change... and the change continued. Uber used to deactivate drivers for soliciting tips. Uber got sued and settled. Now they've stated they won't deactivate drivers for soliciting tips. That is change. It's a small change, as riders have been trained by Uber not to tip for years, so the tip solicitations don't work as well in an Uber car as they do in other types of businesses, but it is change.... and the change will continue. As long as drivers continue their efforts to change the anti-tip culture of Uber, change will continue. It doesn't appear to change in the short term, but over the long term, change does happen.

It comes down to riders being stupid. What Uber says is 100% true. There is "no need to tip" anywhere. Tips everywhere are not needed. They are not required. A tip by it's very nature is voluntary. Even at a restaurant. Put $0 as the tip, and you are free to leave. It's not illegal. You won't be stopped. You are free to leave. The people you are with and the people who served you will think you are a cheap bastard, but it's true... you are a cheap bastard. And that's pretty much where Uber's culture came from. Travis Kalanick is a cheap bastard. And worse off, he thinks everyone thinks like him or should think like him. He's such a cheap bastard he's offended by tip solicitations. He's offended by the tip line on checks at restaurants. He's offended by tip jars. He thinks everyone finds these things offensive, or should find them offensive. And of course, there is a small percentage of society that agrees with him. They praise him for creating the anti-tip culture at Uber. They say thank you. You're the best. Which only feeds his misconception that everyone is, or should be cheap bastards like him. But the fact is, not only are most people not cheap bastards, the tipping culture of this country is good for both the consumer AND the business owners. Most business owners don't tell their customers there is no need to tip the staff, because the business owners benefit from the tipping culture. It creates a self correcting staff for them. Their good employees get tipped well and continue working. Their bad employees gets tipped awful and quit. It saves the business owner money and hassle by not having to fire bad service people. The tipping culture takes care of the problem. It's good for the consumer as it saves them money and hassle as well. If they get bad service, it costs them less. And it saves them the hassle of having to complain about the service. Their lack of tip satisfies their desire for restitution. Theses business benefits are so lost on Travis Kalanick because he's too much of a cheap bastard to see the benefits. Without tips the shitty drivers get compensated just as much as the good drivers.... so the good drivers quit because they get shitty compensation due to the number of drivers out their driving the rates down. Thus, Uber went from providing great cars and great drivers to customers to providing shitty cars and shitty drivers. You can see it having occurred over the past two years. Simply encouraging tipping as opposed to the anti-tipping culture would self correct that problem.

So yes, things will change. If it doesn't, Uber will continue it's downward spiral.


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## DriverX

Tipping is an antiquated system and needs to be eliminated across the board. The Euro system will eventually be adopted here as the Living wage is pushed forward by natural economic forces. 

The price of service should not be left to the customer to determine after the service is performed. Currently in the restaurant industry you have a select group that works the front of the house that is compensated at a much higher rate than the staff in the back of the house who have just as much or arguably more responsibility to insure the restaurants success. Restaurants have been able to use the tip as a portion of what they pay instead of having to negotiate a fair price for the products and services up front. THey are relying on the customer to decide what the meal is worth in the tip model which limits their ability to control costs and margins. 

We should be rallying for higher rates, by organizing drivers to not drive unless rates are surged to 2x. No need to beg the pax for a tip if we are being paid a fair rate.


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## agtg

I'm going to tip service staff regardless of what I'm experiencing with Uber. Do what's right, even when others aren't.


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## UberBastid

Had a PAX in the car the other day, and we got on the subject of tips. She said she didn't know that tips were appropriate for an Uber driver.

I told her a story about walking into my favorite neighborhood bar to enjoy and adult beverage the other day. Bartender looked up and said "Hi - Jim Beam Black rocks, right?" There was a cocktail waitress waiting to give an order, and a customer just sat down at the other end of the bar. Can you guess why he served me first? Can you guess why he bothered to remember me and what I liked to drink? Hint: It's because I tip him. I take care of him, he takes care of me. He doesn't make a living off of the wages the owner pays him. He makes a great living offa tips.
Then I asked her if she tips her hairdresser. The gal that does her nails. A waitress. It was yes to all of those.
Then I asked why she does not tip an Uber driver.
No response. Couldn't think of a reason.
"Cab service in this town is awful. Cabs take an hour or more to arrive, and are rattle traps that smell like last nights drunk. And they cost at least three times what Uber charges. I get there in five minutes in a newish car that doesn't smell, and charge you 1/3 the fare -- and you can't throw me a couple bux for gas?"
She thought for a minute and I continued. "So, just like my bartender, lets say that I remember your pick up address, and you always take a half mile trip that pays me $3.75 - and I'm five miles away, and I see your ping -- do you think I'd be MORE likely to accept the ride if you tipped me?"
She really had to think about this ... she was blonde.

By the time we arrived at the drop off point she had figured it out, and tipped me $5.
Now, no matter what driver gets her ping, he will prolly get a tip.

Ya'll are welcome.

When this question comes up, and it VERY often does ... it is to all of our advantages to talk about it. It can happen like this. 
"How do you like driving for Uber?" (how many time you heard this)
My answer is ... "I like the job, like meeting people, but I am probly not going to be doing it much longer."
That always gets a "why".
Then go into explaining that, for some reason, Uber keeps lowering our wages, and passengers won't tip. Ask them what they gunna do when there is no or few drivers on the road because they can't afford to drive for free. 
Make em think.


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## DriverX

UberBastid said:


> Had a PAX in the car the other day, and we got on the subject of tips. She said she didn't know that tips were appropriate for an Uber driver.
> 
> I told her a story about walking into my favorite neighborhood bar to enjoy and adult beverage the other day. Bartender looked up and said "Hi - Jim Beam Black rocks, right?" There was a cocktail waitress waiting to give an order, and a customer just sat down at the other end of the bar. Can you guess why he served me first? Can you guess why he bothered to remember me and what I liked to drink? Hint: It's because I tip him. I take care of him, he takes care of me. He doesn't make a living off of the wages the owner pays him. He makes a great living offa tips.
> Then I asked her if she tips her hairdresser. The gal that does her nails. A waitress. It was yes to all of those.
> Then I asked why she does not tip an Uber driver.
> No response. Couldn't think of a reason.
> "Cab service in this town is awful. Cabs take an hour or more to arrive, and are rattle traps that smell like last nights drunk. And they cost at least three times what Uber charges. I get there in five minutes in a newish car that doesn't smell, and charge you 1/3 the fare -- and you can't throw me a couple bux for gas?"
> She thought for a minute and I continued. "So, just like my bartender, lets say that I remember your pick up address, and you always take a half mile trip that pays me $3.75 - and I'm five miles away, and I see your ping -- do you think I'd be MORE likely to accept the ride if you tipped me?"
> She really had to think about this ... she was blonde.
> 
> By the time we arrived at the drop off point she had figured it out, and tipped me $5.
> Now, no matter what driver gets her ping, he will prolly get a tip.
> 
> Ya'll are welcome.
> 
> When this question comes up, and it VERY often does ... it is to all of our advantages to talk about it. It can happen like this.
> "How do you like driving for Uber?" (how many time you heard this)
> My answer is ... "I like the job, like meeting people, but I am probly not going to be doing it much longer."
> That always gets a "why".
> Then go into explaining that, for some reason, Uber keeps lowering our wages, and passengers won't tip. Ask them what they gunna do when there is no or few drivers on the road because they can't afford to drive for free.
> Make em think.


I agree with some of this, but the difference is that you see that same bar tender regularly and have developed a relationship with him and she sees the same stylist everytime she gets her hair done,so the tip is a personal experience designed to strengthen that relationship in those circumstances and get you better service. Rideshare is random, you will rarely get the same driver everytime you need a ride so there is no need to create a relationship with your drivers. What there is, is a need to insure drivers will take a pax on a short trip that financially makes no sense to do.

When I get into these discussions I just inform them of the economics and leave the personal stuff out. I tell them on the short trips the drvers lose money and it's very appreciated to get a couple bucks kicked in to cover our gas costs for providing these short trips,or eventually the minimums will have to rise.


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## Shangsta

agtg said:


> I'm going to tip service staff regardless of what I'm experiencing with Uber. Do what's right, even when others aren't.


This. I never thought I would say this but I dont get the obsession with tips. Love them when I get them but no one gets tips on all their trips let alone half.

The issue is ubers rates not the tips


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## agtg

Shangsta said:


> This. I never thought I would say this but I dont get the obsession with tips. Love them when I get them but no one gets tips on all their tips let alone half.
> 
> The issue is ubers rates not the tips


Minnesota has a law that all waitstaff, regardless of tips, must be paid minimum wage.


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## DriverX

agtg said:


> Minnesota has a law that all waitstaff, regardless of tips, must be paid minimum wage.


and this is the direction the industry is moving as living wages above the current federal minimum are being voted in around the country.

The owners are reacting to the higher costs of labor by raising prices, but they are going to be using the TIPS INCLUDED or 'hospitality fee' model to pass it on to the customer while making it easier for the customer to swallow by removing the obligation to also tip.


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## Shangsta

DriverX said:


> and this is the direction the industry is moving as living wages above the current federal minimum are being voted in around the country.
> 
> The owners are reacting to the higher costs of labor by raising prices, but they are going to be using the TIPS INCLUDED or 'hospitality fee' model to pass it on to the customer while making it easier for the customer to swallow by removing the obligation to also tip.


You hit the nail on the head. When they raised min wage in my city a lot of restauraunts raises their prices and told people they dont need to tip. Some still so but if people make a reasonable wage. They dont need to rely on tips now do they!


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## DriverX

Shangsta said:


> You hit the nail on the head. When they raised min wage in my city a lot of restauraunts raises their prices and told people they dont need to tip. Some still so but if people make a reasonable wage. They dont need to rely on tips now do they!


Exactly, and this means the back of the house gets to reap the benefits of their hard work instead of just the pretty people in front.

Currently the front gets a hourly wage (usually the fed minimum or more, $9 in California) plus tips while the dishwasher or line cook gets minimum.

more here:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...e-hourly-wage-waiters-and-bartenders-tips.asp

The federal minimum wage for most occupations is $7.25. However, waiters and bartenders are part of a special category of wage-earners known as tipped employees. Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, tipped employees are defined as those who regularly receive at least $30 in tip income per month. It is this additional and regular income that provides the basis for reduced federal minimum wage standards for this category of workers.

After Washington, Oregon has the second-highest minimum average hourly wage for tipped employees at a rate of $9.25 per hour. California, the most-populous state in the country, has a $9 minimum. Most waiters and bartenders in Alaska, Montana and Nevada earn more than $8 per hour, not including tips.

Texas, the second-most populous state in the country, requires a minimum wage of $2.13 for tipped employees, matching the federal minimum. However, Texas has a secondary standard that requires tipped employees to be paid at least $7.25 per hour when both wages and tips are combined. When combined pay does not reach at least $7.25 per hour, the employer must make up the difference. In a similar example, the minimum average hourly wage for waiters and bartenders in Florida is $5.03 per hour, with a minimum of $8.05 per hour when wages and tips are combined.

PS:Texans might want to go blue. Clearly, they are already turning purple.


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## Lilmsmisses

DriverX said:


> I agree with some of this, but the difference is that you see that same bar tender regularly and have developed a relationship with him and she sees the same stylist everytime she gets her hair done,so the tip is a personal experience designed to strengthen that relationship in those circumstances and get you better service. Rideshare is random, you will rarely get the same driver everytime you need a ride so there is no need to create a relationship with your drivers. What there is, is a need to insure drivers will take a pax on a short trip that financially makes no sense to do.
> 
> When I get into these discussions I just inform them of the economics and leave the personal stuff out. I tell them on the short trips the drvers lose money and it's very appreciated to get a couple bucks kicked in to cover our gas costs for providing these short trips,or eventually the minimums will have to rise.


I've never given a tip because I want to develop a relationship. I always give tips because I am appreciative of the service they did a good job and I have an understanding that more likely than not their base wage is not enough to be a liveable wage.


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## Lilmsmisses

DriverX said:


> I agree with some of this, but the difference is that you see that same bar tender regularly and have developed a relationship with him and she sees the same stylist everytime she gets her hair done,so the tip is a personal experience designed to strengthen that relationship in those circumstances and get you better service. Rideshare is random, you will rarely get the same driver everytime you need a ride so there is no need to create a relationship with your drivers. What there is, is a need to insure drivers will take a pax on a short trip that financially makes no sense to do.
> 
> When I get into these discussions I just inform them of the economics and leave the personal stuff out. I tell them on the short trips the drvers lose money and it's very appreciated to get a couple bucks kicked in to cover our gas costs for providing these short trips,or eventually the minimums will have to rise.


By this logic I suppose you never tip when you go out of town?


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## DriverX

Lilmsmisses said:


> I've never given a tip because I want to develop a relationship. I always give tips because I am appreciative of the service they did a good job and I have an understanding that more likely than not their base wage is not enough to be a liveable wage.


You can rationalize it however you want. Most people are just socially programmed to tip certain amounts for certain things. I've been automatically tipping a buck a beer since I've been going to bars, or 18% on dinner. Rarely do I put a lot of thought into the service other than did they managed to get it to me before I starved to death and was it edible. Sure we all give a little more or less if something exceptional happened, but come on, how exceptional good or bad can someone pour a beer and why does that deserve a $1 but having a car pick you up and take you 3 miles down the road safely not?

This is the problem with tips, they don't make any sense. They are customary and/or at the whim of the tipper. THe beer already cost $5-7 shouldn't they just pay the bartender a living wage regardless of my generosity?


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## DriverX

Lilmsmisses said:


> By this logic I suppose you never tip when you go out of town?


I tip the same everywhere, because I have accepted a certain amount of social engineering in my life. The difference is I'm aware of it and you aren't, until maybe now.

You're not evaluating ever tippable moment and scaling your tip to precisely reward each individual that serves you. You have your own internal list of things you tip for and things you don't with percentages or flat rates for each category, which directs your tipping action more than you'd like to think. Personally I think these people should just be paid $15-$25 an hour depending on the cost of living in that city.

THey should provide good and courteous service and be friendly when expected to be because that's the job not because they might get a tip.


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## Lilmsmisses

DriverX said:


> I tip the same everywhere, because I have accepted a certain amount of social engineering in my life. The difference is I'm aware of it and you aren't, until maybe now.
> 
> You're not evaluating ever tippable moment and scaling your tip to precisely reward each individual that serves you. You have your own internal list of things you tip for and things you don't with percentages or flat rates for each category, which directs your tipping action more than you'd like to think. Personally I think these people should just be paid $15-$25 an hour depending on the cost of living in that city.
> 
> THey should provide good and courteous service and be friendly when expected to be because that's the job not because they might get a tip.


I find it very enlightening that you seem to know how and why I tip. I'm going to inform you that you have no idea so let me Enlighten you. I tip for the reasons previously stated. Due to those reasons I want possible give 20% of a tip. When it is not possible at minimum try and give a 15% tip. You can speak for yourself but you cannot speak for me.


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## DriverX

Lilmsmisses said:


> I find it very enlightening that you seem to know how and why I tip. I'm going to inform you that you have no idea so let me Enlighten you. I tip for the reasons previously stated. Due to those reasons I want possible give 20% of a tip. When it is not possible at minimum try and give a 15% tip. You can speak for yourself but you cannot speak for me.


Hard to read that ^

I think you are saying you tip exactly what you have been told to by society. 15-20% depending service. SO your just like me in that regard. which means an average sway of maybe a dollar or 2 in tip for above or below acceptable service. How unique, I have been enlightened./sarcasm

I'd rather see all the staff being paid a fare wage and not be in some power position of lording a tip over my server. It's just so 19th century. Think about it it, youre treating them like a stripper dancing for dollars or worse you are the stripper driving for dollars. how degrading


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## wk1102

UberHammer said:


> Travis Kalanick is a cheap bastard. And worse off, he thinks everyone thinks like him or should think like him. He's such a cheap bastard he's offended by tip solicitations. He's offended by the tip line on checks at restaurants. He's offended by tip jars. He thinks everyone finds these things offensive, or should find them offensive.


Oh this is so unfair and not true. He is looking out for us, no tipping means no cash on hand, he cares about our safety..

Plus he is making the workplace equal for all races.

Geez I can't even type with a straight face.

Truth is, there is no up side for Uber with tipping only a downside. They have plenty of drivers, they don't want to risk losing 1 rider because of tipping.

If it were proven that 60 % of Lyft riders use lyft over uber because of the tipping option maybe things would change. Very few people won't use Uber because there is no tip in app tipping.

It's the arrogance of the company towards tipping that pisses me off the most.

Tipping isn't necessary, or expected...


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## musk for president

millions of passengers have a union and its name is uber. uber is using its mob of passengers to dominate the small group of drivers because the drivers are divided and unorganized.

uber gains a price advantage over lyft by removing tipping from their payment system. uber will exploit this advantage until drivers unite and use the ratings system to identify which fares are higher by openly punishing riders who support ubers anti-tipping policy.

uber already has lower fares than lyft so its obvious they are being unethical to drivers

solution:
1. rate non tipping passengers 1 star and the system will not match you again.
2. rate non tipping passengers 2 stars and they will be matched with you again
3. rate tipping passengers 5 stars.
4. because passenger rating is shown before accepting the ride, ratings should be used to give drivers more info about the fare, especially considering the passenger's destination is hidden from the driver.


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## agtg

Three awesome bartenders tipped me $27 bucks a couple hours ago.


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## musk for president

servers and bartenders are the most consistent tippers.
least likely to tip are uber pool riders, large groups of women, and rich people.


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## the rebel

musk for president said:


> servers and bartenders are the most consistent tippers.
> least likely to tip are uber pool riders, large groups of women, and rich people.


In my experience servers and bartenders do not tip very often around Denver, rich people and large groups of women tip me very well though.


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## MothMan

musk for president said:


> servers and bartenders are the most consistent tippers.


I've yet to get a tip from a worker I've dropped or picked up from a restaurant. Surprised me at first since they are all about tips.


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## renbutler

Lilmsmisses said:


> I give bad ratings all the time and I feel just fine  .... I think that's actually WHY I feel so good.


Yep, taking great pleasure in trolling -- the continuing decline of a once-great nation.


----------



## DriverX

musk for president said:


> servers and bartenders are the most consistent tippers.
> least likely to tip are uber pool riders, large groups of women, and rich people.


Nah I drive the bar/restaurant people to work frequently, usually short trips. THey have just as bad or worse of a tip average than the rest. I now don't tip them as easily as a result. I actually had one of those odd nights last night where I got several tips. I don't think any of them were industry people based on age and convos. made at least $30 which was about 27% of a crap night of earnings. I'd still rather have surge and a $2 per mile rate than tips though.


----------



## Shangsta

the rebel said:


> In my experience servers and bartenders do not tip very often around Denver, rich people and large groups of women tip me very well though.


Rich people tip you? That is rare. I get most of my tips from middle class people who understand the struggle.


----------



## renbutler

Shangsta said:


> Rich people tip you? That is rare. I get most of my tips from middle class people who understand the struggle.


My tips show no discernable pattern. That's not surprising to me because every class has its generous and its stingy people.


----------



## the rebel

Shangsta said:


> Rich people tip you? That is rare. I get most of my tips from middle class people who understand the struggle.


All the time, I have had a guy talking on the phone about a $22 million dollar deal, a couple of others that told me they just closed multi-million dollar deals. I have dropped many people off in Cherry Hills village which is by far the wealthiest neighborhood in the Denver Metro area, and just about everyone of them toss me at least a 5. But then throughout the years I have had many people who assume I come from money just from the way I dress and carry myself, they are shocked when I tell them I was raised by a single mom with 4 kids in a poor rural area,


----------



## poopyhead

Uber Uber said:


> Non tippers don't get 5 stars with me. It's that simple.


I agree. All rides with no tip are 4 
Stars max.


----------



## Lilmsmisses

renbutler said:


> Yep, taking great pleasure in trolling -- the continuing decline of a once-great nation.


Huh??? Are you calling me a troll?


----------



## musk for president

i'm not sure how many people know this but a union exists in New York and uber gives them every single driver in New York. New York drivers make three dollars per mile compared to $.85 in Miami.


----------



## njctuberx

musk for president said:


> i'm not sure how many people know this but a union exists in New York and uber gives them every single driver in New York. New York drivers make three dollars per mile compared to $.85 in Miami.


New York drivers most certainly do not get 3.00 a mile. 
The rated are 1.70/mile 0.40/minute. They also (on top of commission) pay sales tax and black car fund for each ride. All New York UberX drivers are fully licensed to drive a for hire vehicle by the TLC. They must have TLC licence plates AND pay commercial insurance. Most NYC rides are short distance with constant traffic, traffic lights and gridlock. They also have to compete with a zillion other drivers on every block waiting for a ping.
Remember, EVERYBODY gets screwed by Uber.


----------



## renbutler

Lilmsmisses said:


> Huh??? Are you calling me a troll?


Somebody who takes pleasure in negativity seems like a troll to me.

I'm sure your urge is to be defensive, but maybe you should go back and take a hard look at what you posted.


----------



## renbutler

njctuberx said:


> Remember, EVERYBODY gets screwed by Uber.


Hmmm, not sure about that.

I don't think I've ever been screwed by Uber. When they lowered local rates to .75/mile, I simply stopped driving at that rate and started taking only XL and surge rides.

I also seem to have lots of riders who are happy with the service. Apparently they don't feel like they're being screwed.

That's the trouble with blanket statements.


----------



## poopyhead

Uber Uber said:


> Non tippers don't get 5 stars with me. It's that simple.


Agreed.


----------



## Agent99

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


While I understand and empathize with where you're coming from, your suggested system feels much too harsh to me. For me, it is most desirable that passengers are friendly, pleasant, and respectful. You know what I mean: doesn't reek of cigarette smoke, doesn't put their Chinese food onto the seat, doesn't make you wait, doesn't put the pin in the wrong place, doesn't slam the door, etc. Usually, the highest rated (4.8-5.00) passengers fall into that category. I would prefer it stays that way. To me, it's more important than tipping.

Besides, I understand and mostly accept the idea that tipping can be reserved for behavior which is above and beyond simply driving a passenger from point A to point B. If that is all I've done, and that is all the passenger thinks I have done, I really don't expect tips, don't begrudge the passenger that doesn't tip, and don't feel comfortable punishing someone's rating who is otherwise friendly, pleasant, and respectful. Certainly not with a 1 or 2 star rating.

Finally, I consider surge pricing to be my "tip", and concentrate more on working for Lyft, whose rates are higher in my market and where tips can be paid through the app.


----------



## renbutler

Agent99 said:


> While I understand where you're coming from, your suggested system feels much too harsh to me.  For me, it is desirable that passengers are friendly, pleasant, and respectful. Usually, the highest rated passengers fall into that category. I would prefer it stays that way. To me it's more important than tipping. Besides, I except the idea that tipping can be reserved for behavior which is above and beyond simply going from point a to point B. If that is all I've done, I really don't expect tips and don't feel comfortable punishing someone who is otherwise friendly, pleasant, and respectful.


Blasphemy!



A lot of people have become "anti-greed" these days, but the bottom line is that they are just as much about getting as much money as possible, with attitude, friendliness, and personality being a distant second to money. You see that a lot here.

Sure, I'm in this to make money, but I'm not going to let a lack of tips from 88% of my riders cloud my judgment of them as passengers.


----------



## Toonces-the-cat

I had a pax recently who was a hair stylist. She worked for a company like Uber but instead of requesting a car, the person would request a stylist. She told me that a 20% tip was included. 20% INCLUDED. This opened the door to us talking about tips for Uber drivers. Do you know how much she tipped me? Nothing. She is guaranteed a 20% tip for cutting hair and she could not leave a tip. People who rely on tips to subsidize their earnings should tip.


----------



## renbutler

Toonces-the-cat said:


> I had a pax recently who was a hair stylist. She worked for a company like Uber but instead of requesting a car, the person would request a stylist. She told me that a 20% tip was included. 20% INCLUDED. This opened the door to us talking about tips for Uber drivers. Do you know how much she tipped me? Nothing. She is guaranteed a 20% tip for cutting hair and she could not leave a tip. People who rely on tips to subsidize their earnings should tip.


They can call that a tip all they want, but if it's not voluntary, IT'S NOT A TIP. It's a service fee. Or if it goes directly to the stylist, then it's a commission.


----------



## EX_

Ha! I knew this thread looked familiar.
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-says-dont-tip-your-waiter.112911/

Sorry musk for president, you probably won't make any headway in this thread either. As I said in the last one, the rating system for pax on the receiving end is inconsequential and only exists as a false measure of equality and/or flimsy aggregate for drivers. It's just going take a little longer for poorly rated pax to hail a ride, that's all.


----------



## Agent99

Toonces-the-cat said:


> I had a pax recently who was a hair stylist. She worked for a company like Uber but instead of requesting a car, the person would request a stylist. She told me that a 20% tip was included. 20% INCLUDED. This opened the door to us talking about tips for Uber drivers. Do you know how much she tipped me? Nothing. She is guaranteed a 20% tip for cutting hair and she could not leave a tip. People who rely on tips to subsidize their earnings should tip.


The hypocrisy of service workers irks me too. However, I agree that in your story the 20% is really a mandatory service charge and is not really a tip.


----------



## Toonces-the-cat

Agent99 said:


> The hypocrisy of service workers irks me too. However, I agree that in your story the 20% is really a mandatory service charge and is not really a tip.


At least the worker is getting an additional 20%


----------



## Agent99

EX_ said:


> Ha! I knew this thread looked familiar.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-says-dont-tip-your-waiter.112911/
> 
> Sorry musk for president, you probably won't make any headway in this thread either. As I said in the last one, the rating system for pax on the receiving end is inconsequential and only exists as a false measure of equality and/or flimsy aggregate for drivers. It's just going take a little longer for poorly rated pax to hail a ride, that's all.


 What you call a flimsy aggregate, I call useful information. I have a better quality experience as a driver by electing to do rides for better quality (higher rated) passengers. I also, on average, get paid more, as higher rated passengers tend to do longer trips (and tip occasionally).


----------



## renbutler

Toonces-the-cat said:


> At least the worker is getting an additional 20%


Are they? Or is that just their commission? It might not be an extra anything. It's just their pay.


----------



## EX_

Agent99 said:


> What you call a flimsy aggregate, I call useful information. I have a better quality experience as a driver by electing to do rides for better quality (higher rated) passengers. I also, on average, get paid more, as higher rated passengers tend to do longer trips (and tip occasionally).


To each their own, however...

I've learned immediately that a good rating is not an reliable indicator for tips, longer rides, or anything at all. Are you assuming our markets operate the same? Because my area is wide and the people are typically cheapos, whether it be the city, upper-middle class suburbs, or college campus with tips being far and few nowadays, and yet most of these people are between 4.8*-4.95* (I put anything above that as a new pax). hell, I've gotten better tips from people below that score, so where's the correlation there?

They'll certainly go out of their way to compliment the cleanliness of my car, attitude, and overall service but seldom throw anything extra my way (1 vs. 10 chance nowadays) but love to hand out the stars (woo-hoo). Perhaps the area you drive in has a higher median income or other statistics in your favor, whatever the case, _try _not to assume everyone else is that fortunate.

As far as I'm concerned it's down to luck of the draw, not part of the rule.


----------



## EX_

agtg said:


> Three awesome bartenders tipped me $27 bucks a couple hours ago.


You're lucky. I live in a bizarro dimension where bartenders, waiters/waitresses, and caterers always talk and brag about tips, but always manage to have nothing on em' when the ride ends.

sometimes they'll casually pull out a wad of $5s/$10s/$20s, but usually say "if I had *a dollar *I'd give it to you".  bullshit...


----------



## Shangsta

renbutler said:


> I don't think I've ever been screwed by Uber. When they lowered local rates to .75/mile,


I think his point is because people in some cities make 1.35 or 1.70 a mile they arent really coming out ahead because of cost of living or NYC required and costly commercial insurancr.


----------



## Agent99

EX_ said:


> To each their own, however...
> 
> I've learned immediately that a good rating is not an reliable indicator for tips, longer rides, or anything at all. Are you assuming our markets operate the same? Because my area is wide and the people are typically cheapos, whether it be the city, upper-middle class suburbs, or college campus with tips being far and few nowadays, and yet most of these people are between 4.8*-4.95* (I put anything above that as a new pax). hell, I've gotten better tips from people below that score, so where's the correlation there?
> 
> They'll certainly go out of their way to compliment the cleanliness of my car, attitude, and overall service but seldom throw anything extra my way (1 vs. 10 chance nowadays) but love to hand out the stars (woo-hoo). Perhaps the area you drive in has a higher median income or other statistics in your favor, whatever the case, _try _not to assume everyone else is that fortunate.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned it's down to luck of the draw, not part of the rule.


Fair enough, there are variations in different markets regarding the number of ride requests a driver can get and the meaningfulness of ratings. Everything works better for everybody when in a busier market. I really was not emphasizing the correlation between high ratings and tips. In my experience only 3-4% of Uber riders tip, mostly tourists. What I was emphasizing is that the 4.8 and 4.9 passengers tend to be more pleasant and respectful. There is no guarantee but that is the tendency. That's my experience here in Seattle; Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Greguzzi

MothMan said:


> I've yet to get a tip from a worker I've dropped or picked up from a restaurant. Surprised me at first since they are all about tips.


This is my experience, too. I've evenheard a pair of them bragging about their tips, and thay did not tip.


----------



## Bulls23

renbutler said:


> Hmmm, not sure about that.
> 
> I don't think I've ever been screwed by Uber. When they lowered local rates to .75/mile, I simply stopped driving at that rate and started taking only XL and surge rides.


Let me get this straight. So when Uber reduced your income possibility by forcing you out of UberX, you haven't been screwed. Really?

"That's the trouble with blanket statements." (c)


----------



## renbutler

Bulls23 said:


> Let me get this straight. So when Uber reduced your income possibility by forcing you out of UberX, you haven't been screwed. Really?


They never promised me a long life of the rate that I started with. They simply found that they could get by with paying lower rates. There are drivers who will drive at those rates, and I'm not one of them. Those other drivers have simply outbid me for the work.

I don't have to like the rates. But it's ridiculous to say that I'm "screwed" because they lowered the rates. In fact, I can't fathom how you arrived at that description. It sounds like massive hyperbole.


----------



## Bulls23

renbutler said:


> They never promised me a long life of the rate that I started with. They simply found that they could get by with paying lower rates. There are drivers who will drive at those rates, and I'm not one of them. Those other drivers have simply outbid me for the work.
> 
> I don't have to like the rates. But it's ridiculous to say that I'm "screwed" because they lowered the rates. In fact, I can't fathom how you arrived at that description. It sounds like massive hyperbole.


Umm, no. Doesn't sound convincing. Here is another hypothetical. You get a full time job. Pay is OK. You work and one day your salary is cut, out of blue. Would you be considered yourself screwed?


----------



## renbutler

Bulls23 said:


> Umm, no. Doesn't sound convincing. Here is another hypothetical. You get a full time job. Pay is OK. You work and one day your salary is cut, out of blue. Would you be considered yourself screwed?


If it violates a contract, or even some sort of verbal promise, then I'm screwed.

If I had received absolutely no promise of permanent employment at that rate, absolutely not. I have been laid off twice in my career (essentially a pay cut to $0), and I never felt like I was screwed.

You are clearly part of the prevailing _victim mentality_ ruining our country.


----------



## Bulls23

renbutler said:


> If it violates a contract, or even some sort of verbal promise, then I'm screwed.
> 
> If I had received absolutely no promise of permanent employment at that rate, absolutely not. I have been laid off twice in my career (essentially a pay cut to $0), and I never felt like I was screwed.
> 
> You are clearly part of the prevailing _victim mentality_ ruining our country.


Wrong. Very few job contracts provide "long life" salary rate. In fact, it's safe to say, there is no such contracts out there anymore. So, please be very careful when you make "blanket statements" next time - can be "troubling".

P.S. And yes, you too have been screwed by Uber.


----------



## renbutler

Bulls23 said:


> Wrong. Very few job contracts provide "long life" salary rate. In fact, it's safe to say, there is no such contracts out there anymore. So, please be very careful when you make "blanket statements" next time - can be "troubling".


I'm certain I've never seen such a feeble attempt to turn somebody's words back on them.

I didn't make a single blanket statement. In fact, I spoke _solely about my personal experience _(partly based on reality, partly hypothetically), and then I made a comment about you. Just you. Not "everybody" That's the exact opposite of a blanket statement.

You, on the other hand, tried to speak for "everybody," when clearly you don't have the ability to do so. That's a blanket statement.

Is it possible you didn't know what the phrase means? It's not the end of the world to admit it, if so.



Bulls23 said:


> P.S. And yes, you too have been screwed by Uber.


Nope. I don't live my life as a victim.

You also need to learn how to deal with people who disagree with you. You are getting way too testy about the fact that I didn't see things the way you did. Learning how to rise above such pettiness is an important part of adulthood.


----------



## Bulls23

renbutler said:


> I'm certain I've never seen such a feeble attempt to turn somebody's words back on them.
> 
> I didn't make a single blanket statement. In fact, I spoke _solely about my personal experience _(partly based on reality, partly hypothetically), and then I made a comment about you. Just you. Not "everybody" That's the exact opposite of a blanket statement.
> 
> You, on the other hand, tried to speak for "everybody," when clearly you don't have the ability to do so. That's a blanket statement.
> 
> Is it possible you didn't know what the phrase means? It's not the end of the world to admit it, if so.
> 
> Nope. I don't live my life as a victim.
> 
> You also need to learn how to deal with people who disagree with you. You are getting way too testy about the fact that I didn't see things the way you did. Learning how to rise above such pettiness is an important part of adulthood.


It's funny when people start name calling and finish up mentioning adulthood. Talk about being testy... SMH 

You have a good day, sir.


----------



## renbutler

That's weird. If anything, it felt like I was giving life lessons to my son, and I don't do that in a testy manner at all. Despite the complete lack of testy words, you read it in an imaginary tone.

BTW, that's another thing I would highly recommend avoiding.

You also have a great day. Moving on...

How about that tipping, folks?


----------



## njctuberx

renbutler said:


> Hmmm, not sure about that.
> 
> I don't think I've ever been screwed by Uber. When they lowered local rates to .75/mile, I simply stopped driving at that rate and started taking only XL and surge rides.
> 
> I also seem to have lots of riders who are happy with the service. Apparently they don't feel like they're being screwed.
> 
> That's the trouble with blanket statements.


So you sound like your city's thread shill. 0.75 cents is too low, and screws over everyone since it does take decent fare options away from you.
Not that you'd care, only driving XL surge in Indy, sounds like you're a in it for a hobby. Although you'll tell me different, I'm sure. 
If you're referring to 75 cent riders being happy with the service, I'm sure they will be, until they realize their uberX driver quality turns to downright dangerous with "rates" that low.


----------



## renbutler

njctuberx said:


> So you sound like your city's thread shill. 0.75 cents is too low, and screws over everyone since it does take decent fare options away from you.


That's a bizarre reading. I said that 75 cents is too low for me to drive. How is that shilling?

Answer: It's not, and you're imagining things.


----------



## ShawnsUber

You know, this cracks me up. My 8 year olds care about "Stars", not me... I'm not a charity. This. Is. Not. Kindergarten.

Though, I was kicked out of boy-scouts for eating brownies


----------



## Mikki2

DriverX said:


> I agree with some of this, but the difference is that you see that same bar tender regularly and have developed a relationship with him and she sees the same stylist everytime she gets her hair done,so the tip is a personal experience designed to strengthen that relationship in those circumstances and get you better service. Rideshare is random, you will rarely get the same driver everytime you need a ride so there is no need to create a relationship with your drivers. What there is, is a need to insure drivers will take a pax on a short trip that financially makes no sense to do.
> 
> When I get into these discussions I just inform them of the economics and leave the personal stuff out. I tell them on the short trips the drvers lose money and it's very appreciated to get a couple bucks kicked in to cover our gas costs for providing these short trips,or eventually the minimums will have to rise.


I disagree. I work in the hair industry and it doesn't matter WHO does your hair if its nice you tip... No relationship building needed. If I get you to your destination safely, clean car, not rubbing up with 500 people on a bus or train, you should pay me!!! I don't care if it's a dollar, its appreciation.


----------



## DriverX

Mikki2 said:


> I disagree. I work in the hair industry and it doesn't matter WHO does your hair if its nice you tip... No relationship building needed. If I get you to your destination safely, clean car, not rubbing up with 500 people on a bus or train, you should pay me!!! I don't care if it's a dollar, its appreciation.


Then you agree with me. You have a standard tip that you have been socially engineered to hand out based on the type of service you received. Little has to do with the actual service performed or who was doing it so long as it was adequate. Those jobs have built in those tips to their pricing. Rideshare has not. I'm saying I'd rather get a fair rate up front for my service and not leave that up to the clients good graces after I perform the service.

Do you pay for the film after you see it or before you see it? If the tip or at least a minimum gratuity isn't guaranteed then you might as well just tell people they can pay you $1 a mile or 25 cents,it's up to them to decide after the ride is over.


----------



## Mikki2

DriverX said:


> Then you agree with me. You have a standard tip that you have been socially engineered to hand out based on the type of service you received. Little has to do with the actual service performed or who was doing it so long as it was adequate. Those jobs have built in those tips to their pricing. Rideshare has not. I'm saying I'd rather get a fair rate up front for my service and not leave that up to the clients good graces after I perform the service.
> 
> Do you pay for the film after you see it or before you see it? If the tip or at least a minimum gratuity isn't guaranteed then you might as well just tell people they can pay you $1 a mile or 25 cents,it's up to them to decide after the ride is over.


I don't agree I tip service good or bad because you never know a persons day. I'm just saying in general if someone does well its just a way to say thanks extra? I get your point about the rate being adjusted to begin with but where I live its no so tips do help. I could care less if I get them or not BUT its nice when you do. Its so nice. That 2 bucks paid for a Pepsi when I was dying of thirst one day lol. Other tips allowed me to be debit card free for a week. That's a big deal!!!


----------



## DriverX

If I gave you the option of $2 a mile or a tipping feature in the app which would you prefer?

Now I can believe that that are some very attractive drivers out there that would take the tip but the vast majority of drivers would prefer a higher standard rate affording them a living wage and say leave the tip out of the picture. 

Drivers squabbling over a tip feature is a waste of time, we need to be focused on demanding higher rates by using surge to drive our price up.

You're a pretty lady your gonna get tipped regardless


----------



## Mikki2

DriverX said:


> If I gave you the option of $2 a mile or a tipping feature in the app which would you prefer?
> 
> Now I can believe that that are some very attractive drivers out there that would take the tip but the vast majority of drivers would prefer a higher standard rate affording them a living wage and say leave the tip out of the picture.
> 
> Drivers squabbling over a tip feature is a waste of time, we need to be focused on demanding higher rates by using surge to drive our price up.


This I agree with. I mean I might still be inclined to go with take the tip lol. I've always worked in service its just kinda the right thing to do and to remove the idea of gratitude feels odd. Clearly I can't make you tip but to take away the feel good moment when it comes would be tragic to me.


----------



## Thisisthelife

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


You do understand how idiot that is, right?? Most people ARE NOT GOING TO TIP, that is one of the reasons they use us and it's Ubers niche. If you 1 star all the people that don't tip, you're effectively eliminating your customers. If you want tips, stop doing Uber and go wait tables. Wow


----------



## Thisisthelife

Meant idiotic...


----------



## musk for president

Thisisthelife said:


> Meant idiotic...


you didn't read what i wrote if you think that I said to one star everybody. and I'm in Miami where tips are necessary to bring earnings up to a livable wage since Uber dropped the price below the basement. non-tippers should always have a shitty rating no exceptions. and you need to look up the definition of a niche because you confused that word with the word exploitation


----------



## musk for president

The reason tipping has become so important is because with driverless cars fares will only go down as humans are replaced by AI


----------



## Mean_Judge

If you want TIPS drive cab or LYft. How stupid people are not realizing that main reason Uber is leader in ride sharing is idea of a cashless transaction . Ask lyft driver how many rider that get and never bring the tip topic back in to the question again.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

musk for president said:


> The reason tipping has become so important is because with driverless cars fares will only go down as humans are replaced by AI


I am positive that once Uber deploys self-driving cars, they'll put a tip option onto the app.

I'm guessing they will pilot it initially on the Self Drivers, and see whether or not its worth it


----------



## UberLou

Uber riders hardly tip you keep lowering the ratings we will have thousands of riders with ratings below 4.6. What do you think is going to happen then? Drivers will start lowering their standards and picking up riders with lower than a 4.6. You are just shifting the culture for your own selfish need. How are we going to know who the real problem riders are? 

You knew when you started this venture Uber didn't promote tipping, it is not a surprise. I laugh every time I read threads like this. You people do not have the ability to look more than 1 step ahead.


----------



## Red Leader

With out going back and reading the whole thread........

What most people don't realize is.....no one wants to tip anyone. It's that simple. And once the company gave permission to not tip, that game was over. At this point, it's comming back. A small percentage might use a tip button. The majority wouldn't bat an eye at not touching it.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Red Leader said:


> With out going back and reading the whole thread........
> 
> What most people don't realize is.....no one wants to tip anyone. It's that simple. And once the company gave permission to not tip, that game was over. At this point, it's comming back. A small percentage might use a tip button. The majority wouldn't bat an eye at not touching it.


That's about right, many people only tip because its expected, period.
In the cab business, it certainly was-- people tipped because it was expected, they didn't want to look like a cheapskate to the driver, and they didn't want to get a bad rep among all cab drivers. Also, cab drivers were a low-brow occupation, people figured we could use the $$.

Uber is different, its public appeals imply you get real income-it was never that way in the cab business, it was very tough to keep those cabs manned


----------



## Red Leader

I_Like_Spam said:


> That's about right, many people only tip because its expected, period.
> In the cab business, it certainly was-- people tipped because it was expected, they didn't want to look like a cheapskate to the driver, and they didn't want to get a bad rep among all cab drivers. Also, cab drivers were a low-brow occupation, people figured we could use the $$.
> 
> Uber is different, its public appeals imply you get real income-it was never that way in the cab business, it was very tough to keep those cabs manned


Yup.

If a restaurants posted a sign that said no tip necessary, tips would drop right off a cliff.


----------



## renbutler

Red Leader said:


> And once the company gave permission to not tip, that game was over.


Permission not to tip? There's no such thing. Uber has no power to permit or forbid the offer of cash tips.

Now, an employer can forbid employees from accepting tips, but they can't forbid customers from trying. But that doesn't apply to Uber, because drivers aren't employees.


----------



## Tommy San

After watching Black Mirror, Season 3, Episode 1, I am convinced that Uber's rating system is the devil incarnate.


----------



## Jimmy Bernat

I get decent tips from Uber pax pretty regularly and I don't offer any extras . I did offer waters for awhile to my UberSelect pax but I stopped that nobody ever took them and it was just a waste of my time . My rating fluxs around 4.91-4.93 and I'd say I make an extra $50 a week in cash tips , I've had some weeks over $100. I usually get one person a week who brings that average up with a nice $20 tip but I get a lot of $5 tips from airport rides and the $1-$3 tip on shorter rides. I only do about 30-40 rides a week since I do my best to only accept rides from addresses that are known for longer rides (ie airport trips of 25-35 miles)

I tend to rate non tippers a 4 if they're decent, if they're great pax and don't tip I'll rate them a 5 

I'm not going to rate people a 1 or 2 because they don't tip since Uber trained people to think the tip is included .


----------



## Red Leader

renbutler said:


> Permission not to tip? There's no such thing. Uber has no power to permit or forbid the offer of cash tips.
> 
> Now, an employer can forbid employees from accepting tips, but they can't forbid customers from trying. But that doesn't apply to Uber, because drivers aren't employees.


I ment exactly what I posted. You probably just didn't get the context.

People tip due to societal pressure. That's it. May have been different in the past. But it just ain't so anymore.

Once a company, not the employees, says....nope, don't need it.....don't bother....Thea's it. It's over. People will feel relieved of the responsibility and stop. Society will move on.


----------



## renbutler

Red Leader said:


> I ment exactly what I posted. You probably just didn't get the context.
> 
> People tip due to societal pressure. That's it. May have been different in the past. But it just ain't so anymore.
> 
> Once a company, not the employees, says....nope, don't need it.....don't bother....Thea's it. It's over. People will feel relieved of the responsibility and stop. Society will move on.


No, I understand what you were trying to say, but you used the wrong word: "permission"

And I know why people use exaggerated words like that....


----------



## Silver Fox 13

I'm way more upset/angry/pissed at Uber, for its lack of driver support, useless "help", and basic disregard of drivers, than I am over an otherwise pleasant pax who doesn't give me a couple extra $.


----------



## Red Leader

youCANoptOUTofPOOL said:


> this has ben posted ad nauseum look if you didnt make money on the ride and they didnt tip 1 star them, then send in a request not to be matched with them again (just giving them a 1 star doesnt work) the outsourced rep will confirm you are no longer matched with them 9 times out of 10 if they ask for a reason just say rude, because technically it is. If 90% of people tip bartenders servers, pizza boys who only deliver a plate/bottle 50 feet or a heart attack a few miles 90% of people SHOULD tip someone who delivers them.
> 
> Uber did a great job lying and commiting fraud so pax are mostly trained not to tip, it used t be maybe 1 out of 10 but after the tipping story broke at least for me 4 out of 10 tip.
> 
> EVERY non TIPPER who doesnt go at least 7 miles on x platform 1 star and request unmatch
> 
> Then go about your day


Hmmmm........no. If I am going to request to be unpaired with a rider, and they are going to ask why, I'm going to tell them the truth. If it's over no tip, then so be it. They should know and be beaten over the head with it at every opportunity.

Oh, as for those bartenders, pizza boys, waitresses.....lets comment on that shall we?

Waitresses? Ok. Thing is, it used to be a waitress wouldn't even consider bringing you burnt food. Now? Well that's ok. But don't take it out on their tip. It wasn't their fault. Hmm.....ok. Bartender? Ok. He might just pour you a beer and keep the bar clean and clear. Then again he might make your mixed drinks. Used to be they were well versed in that particular trade. Not a requirement in a lot of these places these days. A machine can mix up your drink. Right at your table in some cases. If you don't like it, well, pay for someone who actually does this for a living. Delivery service? Used to be all,those people were tipped at the holidays. Mail carriers? Why were we tipping them to begin with? UPS drivers? Again. Now, Starbucks, Peet's, places where you get your own food and seat yourself, the person who takes your pizza order at a take out place....in SF, businesses add to your tab to support some living wage or insurance thing. But they still expect you to tip.


----------



## Red Leader

renbutler said:


> No, I understand what you were trying to say, but you used the wrong word: "permission"
> 
> And I know why people use exaggerated words like that....


Uh...no ya don't. You might like to think there is some hidden meaning, but there isn't.

It was clearly explained.


----------



## Bulls23

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


I am OK with the concept. However, you've got to have a tipping sign in your car so that they know what is expected in your particular car. You've got to let pax know that in your car tipping policy is different. That will give them some idea as to why rating might go south.


----------



## renbutler

Red Leader said:


> Uh...no ya don't. You might like to think there is some hidden meaning, but there isn't.
> 
> It was clearly explained.


And I clearly explained that you used the wrong word.

Moving on...


----------



## aeiou_-

I think what the important issue here is if Travis Kalanick tips his waiters/servers. Someone make that an issue on some talk show.


----------



## ChortlingCrison

shiftydrake said:


> Been laughing my azz off since I joined this board complaint about no tips and all the ways to stop the no tip From Uber.......if you want tips drive a taxi


That is why I do drive a taxi. Thanks for inquiring about that.


----------



## negeorgia

musk for president said:


> do you have evidence to support your claim?


Human nature. Thousands were told by Uber that the tip was included. And they told 2 friends and they told 2 friends and so it goes.


----------



## Red Leader

renbutler said:


> And I clearly explained that you used the wrong word.
> 
> Moving on...


Maybe for you. But then again I see you are the type who wants to tell people what they think and mean.

Yes, you should move on. You keep being wrong here.


----------



## renbutler

This is exactly what the ignore button was invented for. Activated. You should do the same.


----------



## 331303

won't matter. Chicago driver's can't even see the passenger rating anymore. So you could be picking up a person that always gets 5 star or a person that always gets 1 star. You'll never know, passengers with still be assholes and it won't matter., go ahead and keep giving everyone a 1 star it's a placebo for you to think it matters when it doesn't.


----------



## Lilmsmisses

renbutler said:


> Somebody who takes pleasure in negativity seems like a troll to me.
> 
> I'm sure your urge is to be defensive, but maybe you should go back and take a hard look at what you posted.


When there is a notification that you have become told police I will give the Liberty to this comment. Until then I'm going to go about my Merry way. Toodles.


----------



## Steven Ambrose

As an aside, do you every find it astounding that the riders are not required to rate us, but we are required to rate them? Why must I be required to rate you being half decent and respectful and you are not required to do the same. I have had over 800 trips, but only 576 ratings.


----------



## renbutler

Lilmsmisses said:


> When there is a notification that you have become told police I will give the Liberty to this comment. Until then I'm going to go about my Merry way. Toodles.


That was weird.

Cheeri-o.


----------



## Lilmsmisses

renbutler said:


> That was weird.
> 
> Cheeri-o.


I have no idea what that even meant lol.


----------



## renbutler

Good, because now we're even!


----------



## Lilmsmisses

renbutler said:


> Good, because now we're even!


[[[Scratching my head]]].


----------



## musk for president

the goal is not to hide this from riders, *i want them to know.* economics is about incentives and riders currently have no incentive to tip.


----------



## galileo5

DriveMeNot said:


> I agree with your method, however, there is one issue. Many riders can query for their rating now before they rate you. If you give them bad rating, they will be able to see that and take their revenge. Usually give everybody a 5 stars. Mark the trip and then after few days, contact uber to change everybody's rating. I heard from some people an Uber conspiracy. They will tell you that they did change the rating, but the fact is they don't. It is more like a feel good situation, to let you feel good as a driver without hurting the rider's rating (Not sure if it is proven).


It's true. I asked Uber to change a rating to one star from five a while ago. They said they did, but I decided to follow up anyway a few days later. When I asked what the rating was changed to, they said I requested it to four stars. I kept lowering it with someone else and following up with others until I got a manager (the support team escalated this b/c I didn't) who noticed the pattern and confirmed that she indeed changed it to one herself after seeing my initial email.

I doubt that this is idiocy on the part of the support team because rating changes aren't important to Uber despite the bullshit they say about thanking us for the change to reflect passenger-behavior accuracy.


----------



## phillipzx3

Lilmsmisses said:


> Maybe not from the perspective of Uber. But I know myself and other drivers won't pick up passengers if the rating is low enough. If anything it may have to wait longer for pickup.


So cherry picking is bad for cab drivers, but acceptable for Uber drivers? 

The irony in how some Uber "partners" have developed the same attitude they complained of about the taxi industry is hilarious.


----------



## negeorgia

Steven Ambrose said:


> As an aside, do you every find it astounding that the riders are not required to rate us, but we are required to rate them? Why must I be required to rate you being half decent and respectful and you are not required to do the same. I have had over 800 trips, but only 576 ratings.


I have just always thought no stars are better than less than 5 stars.


----------



## DriveMeNot

galileo5 said:


> It's true. I asked Uber to change a rating to one star from five a while ago. They said they did, but I decided to follow up anyway a few days later. When I asked what the rating was changed to, they said I requested it to four stars. I kept lowering it with someone else and following up with others until I got a manager (the support team escalated this b/c I didn't) who noticed the pattern and confirmed that she indeed changed it to one herself after seeing my initial email.
> 
> I doubt that this is idiocy on the part of the support team because rating changes aren't important to Uber despite the bullshit they say about thanking us for the change to reflect passenger-behavior accuracy.


I agree. Also there is no equality in rating. A rider can easily know which driver gave them a bad rating right away since you cant take a trip without first quickly rate the current passenger. Passengers can take their sweet time to rate whenever. When they forget you or when they are drunk. To be fair. Uber should not allow the passenger to rate you after 1 hour of completing the ride. Really it just takes less than 2 seconds to rate the driver 5 stars if there is no issue. Instead some riders just forget about it and when they open their app next time to order a new ride. They see the old trip information and they pick any star because they are in a rush or something.


----------



## Felixthecat

Coachman said:


> Here's the way I look at tips. I don't expect them. But when I get one I'm pleasantly surprised. It seems that's the best way to go through the day. I can't imagine being miserable and one-starring every rider who doesn't tip. Which is pretty much all of them.


Exactly, I do the same thing.

Plus, if somebody depends on tips to make ends meet, then that somebody should consider an alternative employment.


----------



## musk for president

Felixthecat said:


> Exactly, I do the same thing.
> 
> Plus, if somebody depends on tips to make ends meet, then that somebody should consider an alternative employment.


 then don't tip your waiter when you go to a restaurant. Polite society understands that certain wages are not high enough and that tips are necessary for the job to be sustainable. our system of money itself is a system of cooperation which is often exploited by assholes who scam other players rather than cooperating. Uber has reduced prices for drivers so significantly that tips are now necessary for it to be a sustainable job due to normal wear and tear car expenses. It is unethical for Uber and its customers to exploit drivers in this way, while knowingly asking every driver to take the risk of lying to their insurance company. drivers who accept this treatment without trying to change it are slaves.


----------



## uber strike

Uber has the feature in app so that riders can tip uber on your service. This is a means to continue their control over drivers.
See as an independent contractor Uber does not have the right to tell you to wash your car because they do not pay those expenses, you do. So Uber gathers the bad news and shows you what is being said in order to get you to provide service out of fear of deactivation as opposed encouraging service through the prospect of a tip.

If Uber wants to gather information concerning if our car is clean and other things, that is one thing, but to then show drivers what is being said is just another demonstration of the denial to relinquish control.

This is something else we can use at our arbitration in order to prove that Uber treats you as an employee. Keep your receipts!!!

And yes, no tip =1 star.


----------



## Geezeeduzit

NorCalPhil said:


> Interestingly, if you just work incentives, be smart about when you drive and what rides you take, tips become irrelevant. When you don't care about tips, the job is more pleasant, and people tip more
> 
> And I 5 star everyone with rare exception.


Word to that Phil


----------



## Geezeeduzit

musk for president said:


> then don't tip your waiter when you go to a restaurant. Polite society understands that certain wages are not high enough and that tips are necessary for the job to be sustainable. our system of money itself is a system of cooperation which is often exploited by assholes who scam other players rather than cooperating. Uber has reduced prices for drivers so significantly that tips are now necessary for it to be a sustainable job due to normal wear and tear car expenses. It is unethical for Uber and its customers to exploit drivers in this way, while knowingly asking every driver to take the risk of lying to their insurance company. drivers who accept this treatment without trying to change it are slaves.


If you truly believe that then you're either bad at math and budgeting or you're an ineffective and unproductive driver, bottom line. I live in the Bay Area, cost of living is through the roof. I will make enough driving uber and lyft this year that After expenses and tax write offs, all my bills are paid and I'm putting $1k a month in the savings account. And also, as another driver said here, when my attitude is in check and I'm not thinking about how im getting screwed, it's amazing how the tips start pouring in. So many former cab drivers on here, no clue about customer service, feeling entitled to something that's not even implied you should receive. Get over yourself, be kind and accommodating to your passengers and you might find that things turn around for you. The reason people use uber over cabs is because people hate cab drivers, don't act like a cab driver, be an uber driver, they're so much better to deal with


----------



## musk for president

Geezeeduzit said:


> If you truly believe that then you're either bad at math and budgeting or you're an ineffective and unproductive driver, bottom line. I live in the Bay Area, cost of living is through the roof. I will make enough driving uber and lyft this year that After expenses and tax write offs, all my bills are paid and I'm putting $1k a month in the savings account. And also, as another driver said here, when my attitude is in check and I'm not thinking about how im getting screwed, it's amazing how the tips start pouring in. So many former cab drivers on here, no clue about customer service, feeling entitled to something that's not even implied you should receive. Get over yourself, be kind and accommodating to your passengers and you might find that things turn around for you. The reason people use uber over cabs is because people hate cab drivers, don't act like a cab driver, be an uber driver, they're so much better to deal with


Wrong. people choose uber cause its faster and costs half price compared to taxis. your anecdote is not an argument against the strategy of categorizing riders by their tipping habits. your opinions and guesses about others is also not a statistical or empirical argument so you have not contributed to this discussion.


----------



## Geezeeduzit

musk for president said:


> Wrong. people choose uber cause its faster and costs half price compared to taxis. your anecdote is not an argument against the strategy of categorizing riders by their tipping habits. your opinions and guesses about others is also not a statistical or empirical argument so you have not contributed to this discussion.


More proof you're not good at customer service


----------



## FoeLife

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


Musk here is a quote you might like from an article titled "Should you tip your uber driver"
"Tipping with Uber is still a choice, however the days of not tipping while keeping a clean conscious (and experiencing no negative consequences) are over. Customers who still choose not to tip might see their rider ratings plummet, meaning eventually drivers might stop picking up known non-tippers. Since drivers can no longer be deactivaed for being choosey about who they pick up, tipping conventions within Uber may change quickly."
Ratings would be a way to get the passengers to tip, but I think we need to change their behavior by informing them tips are not included.

Here's something to consider as well, "Studies of the real world practice show that tipping is often discriminatory: workers receive different levels of gratuity based on factors such as age, sex, race, hair color and even breast size, and the size of the *gratuity is found to be only very weakly related to the quality of service*."


----------



## the rebel

Geezeeduzit said:


> If you truly believe that then you're either bad at math and budgeting or you're an ineffective and unproductive driver, bottom line. I live in the Bay Area, cost of living is through the roof. I will make enough driving uber and lyft this year that After expenses and tax write offs, all my bills are paid and I'm putting $1k a month in the savings account. And also, as another driver said here, when my attitude is in check and I'm not thinking about how im getting screwed, it's amazing how the tips start pouring in. So many former cab drivers on here, no clue about customer service, feeling entitled to something that's not even implied you should receive. Get over yourself, be kind and accommodating to your passengers and you might find that things turn around for you. The reason people use uber over cabs is because people hate cab drivers, don't act like a cab driver, be an uber driver, they're so much better to deal with


While I agree with you on some of your post, the fact of the matter is that Uber in the bay area is much different than it is in the rest of the country. In the bay area you have enough riders and it pays well enough to actually stay busy your whole shift and make okay money, in some areas driving for Uber pays about half as much per mile and it does not stay busy enough to make enough to pay bills and save money. If it did than you would find people much happier.


----------



## musk for president

there are non-tippers, tippers and then there are socially pressured tippers. you can't change a non-tipper into a tipper. with enjoyable service a tipper might leave a large tip. the sp tipper will only tip when they feel that its expected otherwise they avoid tipping. SP tippers make up a large part of society and these are the ones who need to understand that their rating will fall if they don't tip.


----------



## JimS

I had an unexpected need for an uber the other day. Don't carry cash. Couldn't tip my Uber. For the return, I used Lyft.


----------



## Lilmsmisses

phillipzx3 said:


> So cherry picking is bad for cab drivers, but acceptable for Uber drivers?
> 
> The irony in how some Uber "partners" have developed the same attitude they complained of about the taxi industry is hilarious.


Call It Whatever You Like. As an independent contractor, I call it good business.


----------



## Lilmsmisses

Felixthecat said:


> Exactly, I do the same thing.
> 
> Plus, if somebody depends on tips to make ends meet, then that somebody should consider an alternative employment.


I agree with that. And I also agree that if someone is unhappy with or doesn't want to pay for a service they should use other means to accomplish the same goal.


----------



## Shangsta

musk for president said:


> there are non-tippers, tippers and then there are socially pressured tippers. you can't change a non-tipper into a tipper. with enjoyable service a tipper might leave a large tip. the sp tipper will only tip when they feel that its expected otherwise they avoid tipping. SP tippers make up a large part of society and these are the ones who need to understand that their rating will fall if they don't tip.


Pax dont care about their rating. uber doesnt deactivate them


----------



## musk for president

Shangsta said:


> Pax dont care about their rating. uber doesnt deactivate them


nor do drivers care what a pax rating is when they pick them up which is why it should be used as a tip indicator rather than a meaningless number


----------



## OneDay

Two things to consider here

1. Riders started to down rate me when i went with this strategy because they check my rating of them before they rate their driver these cheap people!!

2. Whoever thinks he's putting money in savings Geez guy up here doesn't understand it's not really saving because it will be used for another vehicle or repairs in the near future. That's not really a savings account, it's an expense account.

Drivers need to bring up tips politely when riders say things such as " i know that's far is it ok?" .... etc

bay area ( and NY) is much different as it is where Uber started and Uber doesn't want bad publicity there.


----------



## OneDay

JimS said:


> I had an unexpected need for an uber the other day. Don't carry cash. Couldn't tip my Uber. For the return, I used Lyft.


Did you ask the driver if he could accept a tip another way? I don't think so, just like everyone else...


----------



## musk for president

good ideas have power cause once they get into the mind people carry them effortlessly and share them quickly. you are saying this is a bad idea but rather than improve it or provide evidence supporting your negativity you choose to complain and troll.


----------



## UberBastid

musk for president said:


> solution:
> 1. rate non tipping passengers 1 star and the system will not match you again.
> .


If I wasn't matched up to every non tipping PAX I'd be sitting and listening to the radio for hours in no time at all.

~ UberBastid ~


----------



## Tedgey

musk for president said:


> trolls gotta troll i guess


I'll walk you through this. 
For starters there are 100 million UberDrivers. There are 5 UberDrivers in my driveway right now. 2%, 5% come online to UP? And a very low percentage of them care about your idea. They just want to know why their registration wasn't approved or if 2 pickups on a pool ride both count toward incentives.

2nd, pax don't take that many trips and so if you start dropping 1's for fun on them there are going to be an awful lot of untouchable pax out there. What's that? You're not talking about a 1? Same goes for a 3. Let's say is pax's 5th ride and 4 drivers have given him a 5 but you, oh brilliant one with the brilliant plan give him a 3. This then is the last UberRide this passenger will ever take because he's now rated a 4.6 and many drivers won't touch him.

3rd, your system is totally arbitrary, as is everyone else's so I can't hold that against you but I can hold against you is your total unawareness of that fact.

In your system, what's the difference between a 1 and a 2?

What's the difference between a 2 and a 3?

Don't bother answering those because it doesn't matter, this is about mathematics not language.

Answer this one:

Is the difference between a 1 and a 3 the same difference as between a 2 and a 4?

Is it the same as 3 and 5? Is the difference between 2 and 3 the same as between 4 and 5?

Clearly the answer is no which invalidates all three of these horrible threads. The good news is that since .00000000000001% of drivers will do this it will only cause a handfull of pax to no longer be able to get a ride from an UberPrimaDonna because the best case scenario here is the most likely one. You can rate pax as you please and nobody cares.


----------



## musk for president

Tedgey said:


> I'll walk you through this.
> For starters there are 100 million UberDrivers. There are 5 UberDrivers in my driveway right now. 2%, 5% come online to UP? And a very low percentage of them care about your idea. They just want to know why their registration wasn't approved or if 2 pickups on a pool ride both count toward incentives.
> 
> 2nd, pax don't take that many trips and so if you start dropping 1's for fun on them there are going to be an awful lot of untouchable pax out there. What's that? You're not talking about a 1? Same goes for a 3. Let's say is pax's 5th ride and 4 drivers have given him a 5 but you, oh brilliant one with the brilliant plan give him a 3. This then is the last UberRide this passenger will ever take because he's now rated a 4.6 and many drivers won't touch him.
> 
> 3rd, your system is totally arbitrary, as is everyone else's so I can't hold that against you but I can hold against you is your total unawareness of that fact.
> 
> In your system, what's the difference between a 1 and a 2?
> 
> What's the difference between a 2 and a 3?
> 
> Don't bother answering those because it doesn't matter, this is about mathematics not language.
> 
> Answer this one:
> 
> Is the difference between a 1 and a 3 the same difference as between a 2 and a 4?
> 
> Is it the same as 3 and 5? Is the difference between 2 and 3 the same as between 4 and 5?
> 
> Clearly the answer is no which invalidates all three of these horrible threads. The good news is that since .00000000000001% of drivers will do this it will only cause a handfull of pax to no longer be able to get a ride from an UberPrimaDonna because the best case scenario here is the most likely one. You can rate pax as you please and nobody cares.


your claim that pax wont be picked up cause of a low rating is false. and as for the idea being small, all ideas begin as a minority of one. your prediction that this idea will not work or that people will not try it is speculation.


----------



## musk for president

for those of you who don't know you can check if the last passenger gave you five stars by going to the ratings tab after you complete a trip and if they gave you five stars your total will go up by one immediately and you'll see it on the rating screen. if that number does not increase after each ride then you know that rider gave you less than five stars or didn't rate you.

pax have to email uber for their rating so I'm pretty sure that they don't check their rating after every trip


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

musk for president said:


> for those of you who don't know you can check if the last passenger gave you five stars by going to the ratings tab after you complete a trip and if they gave you five stars your total will go up by one immediately and you'll see it on the rating screen. if that number does not increase after each ride then you know that rider gave you less than five stars or didn't rate you.
> 
> pax have to email uber for their rating so I'm pretty sure that they don't check their rating after every trip


They can now check it in the app. No need to email.


----------



## musk for president

Fuzzyelvis said:


> They can now check it in the app. No need to email.


then a lot of them dont check cause ive two starred every non tipper the last month and when i check mine most gave me five stars. i one star maybe 1 out of every 100 non tippers cause i dont want to see them again.
heres a strategy ive been using thats worked flawlessly the last couple weeks. I ask pax if they also use Lyft. usually they say no. I explain that there's no difference between the GPS, the price or even the drivers but that the one difference is that lyft allows tips on the app but uber does not.
it takes less than a minute to have that conversation but the payoff is huge. and because they end up tipping they always get five stars from me.


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## Mr Magoo

Next time I go out to eat, I am going to ask my server if he/she has ever taken Uber before...if she says yes...no tip, however I will draw in 5 pretty stars for him/her.


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## Toonces-the-cat

I had a pax today who works at the take out counter of a restaurant. She complained about the customers not tipping. After the ride she got out of my car and did not tip. I guess what goes around comes around.


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## musk for president

Mr Magoo said:


> Next time I go out to eat, I am going to ask my server if he/she has ever taken Uber before...if she says yes...no tip, however I will draw in 5 pretty stars for him/her.


first ask them how long they've been serving tables for that restaurant. or if they serve tables for two restaurants. then ask them how do they like doing that as a job. then ask them what their real job is.


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## Toonces-the-cat

Uber is the only service jobs where tipping is prohibited.


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## Mr Magoo

Excellent service! 5 Stars.


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## Lilmsmisses

musk for president said:


> nor do drivers care what a pax rating is when they pick them up which is why it should be used as a tip indicator rather than a meaningless number


I actually pay attention to is when I decide to pick someone up. I think even if not used as a tip indicator, drivers should pass on low rated drivers, so that they can not get a ride (since Uber won't deactivate them), or at the very least, it takes them a LONG time to get one, because some new driver didn't know what the low rating meant. I know I pass on low rating ALL THE TIME.... Even in surge... #TooMuchRisk.


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## Lilmsmisses

Mr Magoo said:


> Excellent service! 5 Stars.


#TheBest .... Think I can pay my rent in stars?


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## JimS

OneDay said:


> Did you ask the driver if he could accept a tip another way? I don't think so, just like everyone else...


No. It's not expected on Uber. It's nice when received. But stating to talk about it - fun the moment you say "I don't have cash", the conversation turns real awkward.


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## Travis -k

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


Ride swapping is hindering your plan, 4.6 is my limit for excepting, they have been swapping riders that are lower.


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## UberHammer

Mr Magoo said:


> Next time I go out to eat, I am going to ask my server if he/she has ever taken Uber before...if she says yes...no tip, however I will draw in 5 pretty stars for him/her.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E3G4QY2/?tag=ubne0c-20


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## kaigor

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


Sorry this is a good idea but will fail. Simple reason, about 5-10% of Uber drivers TOPS come to these boards, and your method requires cooperation by all or most. we have a lot of Somali Uber drivers here that don't come on this board and frankly want the fares so they probably wouldn't abide.


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## Rat

Ball-In-Hand said:


> Youre in the wrong business if you feel you should be getting tipped. Don't you understand Uber does not want there passengers tipping. Most pax think it is included. Drive for Lyft if you want tips, but I still wouldn't expect them. Just have a good attitude and drive. Tips will come here and there. But expecting them will not yield you any.
> 
> If you can't work for a dollar, work for 50 cents. If you can't work for 50 cents work for a quarter. If you don't want to work for a quarter, someone else will.


Good to hear you endorse exploiting others.


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## Fuzzyelvis

UberHammer said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E3G4QY2/?tag=ubne0c-20


Dollar Store.


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## d0n

Lol, I actually encountered a rider who asked many questions along the way, he rode with 2 other friends, anyways... by the end of the ride (the guy was new to uber) he asked his friend as they got out of the car: "so what about tips?" - his friend replied "you aren't allowed to give tips", I rofled, shouted: "you can tip if you want!" (I doubt they heard me), gave the guy a 2 star as his first rate and went on my merry way.

It shocked me to learn passengers actually think it's a rule not to give tips, uber cockblocks what they can't pocket.


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## I_Like_Spam

Toonces-the-cat said:


> Uber is the only service jobs where tipping is prohibited.


Tipping isn't prohibited, its just highly discouraged.

And Uber isn't the only service job where it is discouraged/prohibited.

Fast Food Drive thru windows, stewardesses come immediately to mind, but there are others.


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## Peanut hello

d0n said:


> Lol, I actually encountered a rider who asked many questions along the way, he rode with 2 other friends, anyways... by the end of the ride (the guy was new to uber) he asked his friend as they got out of the car: "so what about tips?" - his friend replied "you aren't allowed to give tips", I rofled, shouted: "you can tip if you want!" (I doubt they heard me), gave the guy a 2 star as his first rate and went on my merry way.
> 
> It shocked me to learn passengers actually think it's a rule not to give tips, uber cockblocks what they can't pocket.


Most people nowadays dont carry cash with them, just credit cards.


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## jeep45238

Get a square reader.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Lilmsmisses said:


> Maybe not from the perspective of Uber. But I know myself and other drivers won't pick up passengers if the rating is low enough. If anything it may have to wait longer for pickup.


I worked last week more than I have in ages. I noticed pax ratings are lower than in the past. I also noticed no tips from anyone under 4.8. I got some high rated pax who didn't tip, but all the tips I did get were from primarily 4.86 and up. One from a 4.8.

Unless it's a big surge I'm considering rethinking my requirements and only picking up 4.8 and up. The tips from the high rated pax were decent tips, too. I can stand to miss a few pings and get a couple of timeouts if my tipping % goes up. And no wear and tear added for tips.

On the 4.8 and up rated pax tip % was 54.5% of pax (6 out of 11). One $2, one $4, three $5 and one $20. Over 3 days Thurs thru Sat. I took 14 other trips with no tips. Overall tip % was 24% which is much higher than the past. However I did ignore a lot of low rated pax and it is Xmas season, when tips usually are better in general.

Uber just brought back cancel fees though. So I may have to take some low rated pax pings to see if I van get cancel fees. Low rated pax often used to be good for those. But I've noticed pax are coming out faster these days (I think drivers have been leaving quickly with no chance of cancel fees and the pax are being trained).

I'm curious if anyone else is keeping track of tips vs ratings. Most of my trips were surge, by the way, and it didn't seem to affect tipping. The $20 tip was on a 3.4x trip that paid me $36 and who knows what the poor pax paid with the up front pricing.


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## Lorentz

I find it a gross misuse of the rating system. This is like a pax suggesting that all other pax should rate us 2 stars unless we absolutely offer mints and a handy.


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## Agent99

Lorentz said:


> I find it a gross misuse of the rating system. This is like a pax suggesting that all other pax should rate us 2 stars unless we absolutely offer mints and a handy.


I don't understand. What is a gross misuse of the rating system?


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## Lorentz

Agent99 said:


> I don't understand. What is a gross misuse of the rating system?


Necro response to the actual OP here. Saying that non-tipping pax should be 2 stars and all tipping pax should receive 5, no matter what.


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## Agent99

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I worked last week more than I have in ages. I noticed pax ratings are lower than in the past. I also noticed no tips from anyone under 4.8. I got some high rated pax who didn't tip, but all the tips I did get were from primarily 4.86 and up. One from a 4.8.
> 
> Unless it's a big surge I'm considering rethinking my requirements and only picking up 4.8 and up. The tips from the high rated pax were decent tips, too. I can stand to miss a few pings and get a couple of timeouts if my tipping % goes up. And no wear and tear added for tips.
> 
> On the 4.8 and up rated pax tip % was 54.5% of pax (6 out of 11). One $2, one $4, three $5 and one $20. Over 3 days Thurs thru Sat. I took 14 other trips with no tips. Overall tip % was 24% which is much higher than the past. However I did ignore a lot of low rated pax and it is Xmas season, when tips usually are better in general.
> 
> Uber just brought back cancel fees though. So I may have to take some low rated pax pings to see if I van get cancel fees. Low rated pax often used to be good for those. But I've noticed pax are coming out faster these days (I think drivers have been leaving quickly with no chance of cancel fees and the pax are being trained).
> 
> I'm curious if anyone else is keeping track of tips vs ratings. Most of my trips were surge, by the way, and it didn't seem to affect tipping. The $20 tip was on a 3.4x trip that paid me $36 and who knows what the poor pax paid with the up front pricing.


 I keep track, and have said in the past many times that passengers with a rating above 4.8 and especially above 4.9 are more likely to offer the driver a better overall experience. They are typically more respectful. They don't order Uberpool or short rides down the street. They don't reek of cigarette smoke and they don't slam your door when they get out of the car. They don't make you wait after you arrive, or spill food in your car. They are friendly, or at least pleasant. And while in my experience perhaps only 4% of passengers offer a tip, those that do usually have a rating above 4.8 and especially above 4.9.

Yesterday, I received my first tip in many weeks. I helped a man make sure to get to the airport on time, and he gave me $40, my best tip ever. He had a 4.95 rating.


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## yeahTHATuberGVL

Lorentz said:


> I find it a gross misuse of the rating system. This is like a pax suggesting that all other pax should rate us 2 stars unless we absolutely offer mints and a handy.


I honestly think pax talk about drivers in a similar manner, and more than enough pax rate us as a reflection of Uber. Bad pin? Texted me before I was ready to come out? Bad gps? UberX not a BMW? Give the driver a low rating. GF just dumped me? BF hooked up with some *****? I don't like the bar I just left? Drive thru didn't give me extra honey mustard? Low rate the driver.


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## Kembolicous

musk for president said:


> *ive come up with a way to increase driver earnings by uniting drivers in the way they rate riders.* passengers consistently compliment the speed of pickup, the cleanliness of the car and rate five stars on the service but because of Uber's "anti-tipping on the app" policy riders enjoy this superior service but mostly do not tip.
> *The solution is to unite driver ratings of passengers to make ratings a way to see the future.*
> 1.* If the passenger tips they get 5 stars* no exceptions. this isnt a system of nice or mean this is a'tipper' or 'not a tipper' ratings system to counter uber's anti-tipping policy.
> 2. polite customers who *do not tip get 2 stars and a can still get matched with the driver*.
> 3. *impolite and no tip gets 1 star and the rider loses an available driver on the network.*
> -*3 stars should not be used* because non tippers need a very low rating and the reverse for tippers so its clear whos who-
> *in a free and transparent market* *drivers can decide before the ride if they want to drive someone who does not tip.*
> begin today. do it for every passenger you pick up and spread the word to other drivers and reply yes to this thread if you will *participate in this cooperative strategy to empower drivers.*


Waiters, around here at least, are paid less than minimum wage. They depend on tips to make it. Drivers are in the same boat. With the absurd rates and expenses, I see drivers as being the same as waiters, waitresses. But the privileged riders, that would not fail to tip their waitress, waiter, seem to have a hard time tipping the driver. To me any rider test does not tip have no honor.


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