# Safe Rider Fee doesn't affect payout but affects my taxes



## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Just got my tax document from uber, to my surprise(not) they are counting their SRF as it were my income within the total gross they sent to the IRS. 

So it doesn't affect my payout but it affects my gross in fares, so basically I am getting this money for SRF which is now over $2 each ride and uber takes it right away and says it doesn't affect payout. If it's in my gross fares totals then I should be able to set the amount of SRF but uber is once again acting like an employer pretending they are not.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Because you have to declare the SRF as income, you then also claim it as an expense (becuase you pay it to Uber). It's still a non-impact fee - other than the cost of writing the total down on your tax form.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

Exactly, it has no actual effect on the taxes you pay, it just makes the gross higher with more expenses to compensate.

From the viewpoint that 'you' collected the fares and are simy paying Uber their fees out of the totals, this makes sense. Obviously this isn't what actually happens, but from a tax standpoint it's precisely what happens.


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## Aimless (Jan 22, 2016)

Reporting the SRF as driver income also allows Uber to substantiate their inflated claims about how much their drivers are earning.


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## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

Get help from a tax professional to prepare your tax return. You're on the wrong track now and I don't think the helpful hints here will help you. I estimate that you will save 1/5 of the largest number on your 1099 and hopefully your tax professional will charge much less than that.


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## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Because you have to declare the SRF as income, you then also claim it as an expense (becuase you pay it to Uber). It's still a non-impact fee - other than the cost of writing the total down on your tax form.


This is true for now. However, to be considered an ongoing business, the IRS looks at your profitability and if you're not profitable as a business at least 3 of every 5 years, they can rule it's a hobby.

If that happens, all income is reported but deductability of expenses becomes very limited. They have to be filed on Schedule A instead of C and then there are limits. (Only amounts over 2% of AGI are deductible, expenses greater than Uber income cannot offset other income, etc).

I don't anticipate this happening soon, but it is a possibility in a few years when the government sees hundreds of thousands of people declaring business losses over multiple years.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Tequila Jake said:


> This is true for now. However, to be considered an ongoing business, the IRS looks at your profitability and if you're not profitable as a business at least 3 of every 5 years, they can rule it's a hobby.
> 
> If that happens, all income is reported but deductability of expenses becomes very limited. They have to be filed on Schedule A instead of C and then there are limits. (Only amounts over 2% of AGI are deductible, expenses greater than Uber income cannot offset other income, etc).
> 
> I don't anticipate this happening soon, but it is a possibility in a few years when the government sees hundreds of thousands of people declaring business losses over multiple years.


It's a non-issue becuase even in the case where a drivers deductible expenses are greater than their revenues, there's nothing that says thatthey MUST report or take all of the deductions available to them. This might be a concern for people who have income ONLY from Uber. Otherwise, any deduction above and beyond the Uber revenues offsets the taxable income from other sources.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> Just got my tax document from uber, to my surprise(not) they are counting their SRF as it were my income within the total gross they sent to the IRS.
> 
> So it doesn't affect my payout but it affects my gross in fares, so basically I am getting this money for SRF which is now over $2 each ride and uber takes it right away and says it doesn't affect payout. If it's in my gross fares totals then I should be able to set the amount of SRF but uber is once again acting like an employer pretending they are not.


Don't know how long you have been driving for however it does effect your pay. A little history:

Lyft was the first to implement the SRF at the time they were $6.00 minimum here in Albuquerque. They started with $1.00 SRF and added it on top of the minimum.

Shortly after uber added a $1.00 SRF however they had a $5.00 minimum and decided screw the driver and took it from the driver. This also alows them to be $2.00 cheaper than lyft on a minimum fare.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tomabq said:


> Don't know how long you have been driving for however it does effect your pay.


If Uber eliminated the SRF tomorrow... how much more would you receive from each fare?
Zero.
If Uber quadrupled the SRF tomorrow... how much less would you receive from fares?
Zero.
The SRF has no impact on driver earnings today (or last year).


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> If Uber eliminated the SRF tomorrow... how much more would you receive from each fare?
> Zero.
> If Uber quadrupled the SRF tomorrow... how much less would you receive from fares?
> Zero.
> The SRF has no impact on driver earnings today (or last year).


Think you need to take a look at one of your minimum fares. Minimum is $4.00 here in Albuquerque. Uber takes $1.90 for SRF then they take their 20 percent. Leaving us with $1.68. If they raise the SRF to $3.00 it will be $1.00 minus ubers 20 percent leaving us with 0.80. This is why uber raises the SRF a couple of months before lowering rates.

It's simple uber movement's, when you raise the SRF raise the minimum. This way when you lower the minimum, per mile and the minute it doesn't look like it effect your bottom line. All I can say is watch what they do not what they say.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Also if it doesn't effect your pay then why when they implemented the SRF didn't they add it on top of what was then a $5.00 minimum. No it remained $5.00 minimum uber subtracted it then took their 20 percent off $4.00. So we went from earning $4.00 on the minimum of $5.00 to now earning $3.20 on the minimum. Lyft had a $6.00 minimum and added the $1.00 on top of the minimum. The customer now paid $7.00 total. Do you see now that it does effect your pay? If uber removed the SRF today on a $4.00 minimum we would be back to $3.20 and not the $1.68 we currently receive!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tomabq said:


> Think you need to take a look at one of your minimum fares. Minimum is $4.00 here in Albuquerque. Uber takes $1.90 for SRF then they take their 20 percent. Leaving us with $1.68. If they raise the SRF to $3.00 it will be $1.00 minus ubers 20 percent leaving us with 0.80. This is why uber raises the SRF a couple of months before lowering rates.
> 
> It's simple uber movement's, when you raise the SRF raise the minimum. This way when you lower the minimum, per mile and the minute it doesn't look like it effect your bottom line. All I can say is watch what they do not what they say.


The RF (used by both Lyft and Uber) has nothing to do with earnings.
The fee is charged to the rider on top of the fare. (whether included - as Lyft does or broken out, as Uber does)
In Albuquerque the min fare is $4. That's the FARE - what the rider pays - and it includes the rider fee.
The min EARNINGS on that $4 fare is $1.68 = (($4 -$1.90SRF= $2.10) -20%)
(my god - why would nay one drive X in Albeq?)
If the SRF were raised tomorrow to $15 the min FARE would be $18...
but the minimum EARNINGS would still be $1.68.
If the SRF were eliminated tomorrow
the minimum EARNINGS would still be $1.68.
The SRF has no impact on a drivers earnings.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The RF (used by both Lyft and Uber) has nothing to do with earnings.
> The fee is charged to the rider on top of the fare. (whether included - as Lyft does or broken out, as Uber does)
> In Albuquerque the min fare is $4. That's the FARE - what the rider pays - and it includes the rider fee.
> The min EARNINGS on that $4 fare is $1.68 = (($4 -$1.90SRF= $2.10) -20%)
> ...


First I don't drive, second your analysis is completely wrong. Uber subtracts from the $4.00. Did you not read what I said they did when they first implemented the fee the minimum stayed the same. It was $5 we made $4 after their 20 percent before they implemented the new fee. After implementing the fee we made $3.20.

As for you saying if they raised the fee to $15 we would make the same. It all depends what the minimum is. As i said before they always raise the minimum when they raise the fee. Then a couple of months later lower rates and lower minimum.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tomabq said:


> First I don't drive, second your analysis is completely wrong. Uber subtracts from the $4.00. Did you not read what I said they did when they first implemented the fee the minimum stayed the same. It was $5 we made $4 after their 20 percent before they implemented the new fee. After implementing the fee we made $3.20.
> 
> As for you saying if they raised the fee to $15 we would make the same. It all depends what the minimum is. As i said before they always raise the minimum when they raise the fee. Then a couple of months later lower rates and lower minimum.


You want to tie the min fare the SRF? Fares have changed many times without any change in the SRF - so I'm afraid that reality doesn't match up with your conspiracy theory.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You want to tie the min fare the SRF? Fares have changed many times without any change in the SRF - so I'm afraid that reality doesn't match up with your conspiracy theory.


What did I say! Before they implemented the fee the minimum was $5 our take was $4. When they implemented the fee it was still $5 minimum. They took the fee of $1 from the $5 and now we received $3.20. That's a loss of 80 cents.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> If Uber eliminated the SRF tomorrow... how much more would you receive from each fare?
> Zero.
> If Uber quadrupled the SRF tomorrow... how much less would you receive from fares?
> Zero.
> The SRF has no impact on driver earnings today (or last year).


Well SRF is now $1.85 here so if they got rid of it and min fare would be $4 then they can raise the min fare to $5 after 20% we get $4. Now I just got 6 min fares in a row. So much for rate cuts equal more customers... Yeah lazy customers doing min fare.

My last weekend doing uber! Feels good to say that.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tomabq said:


> What did I say! Before they implemented the fee the minimum was $5 our take was $4. When they implemented the fee it was still $5 minimum. They took the fee of $1 from the $5 and now we received $3.20. That's a loss of 80 cents.


Befor there was an SRF has nothing to do with anything. Fares have been decreasing every few months since Uber went into business, which causes decreased EARNINGS. The SRF was implmented as a direct fee to the rider to pay for the fixed costs Uber incurs (insurance, background checks, 'safety programs'). The SRF is different in each city, becuase those costs are different in each city. Detroit, with the highest cost of insurance in the coiuntry, also has an SRF that reflects that cost. Your suggesting that the SRF is tied to the marketing decisions Uber makes about local FARES to drive business growth - and that is not true. If it were, the FARE for UberSELECT and UberX and UberXL and UberSUV and UberLUX - would ALL change with any change ithe SRF - and it doesn't. Do Uber regional OPsManagers and mmarketing look at overal fare rpicing and adjust it to drive growth? Of course. So what.

Your harping on what a start-up company did two years as they developed their consumer price models and structure is meaningless to what the driver today wants to know about reading their 2015 1099K and understanding how the SRF relates to their earnings. Your going on with your myth is just confusing. The SRF is a financially Non-Impactful fee that drivers see on their 1099k. It is subtracted from FARES and does not decrease their EARNINGS.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Befor there was an SRF has nothing to do with anything. Fares have been decreasing every few months since Uber went into business, which causes decreased EARNINGS. The SRF was implmented as a direct fee to the rider to pay for the fixed costs Uber incurs (insurance, background checks, 'safety programs'). The SRF is different in each city, becuase those costs are different in each city. Detroit, with the highest cost of insurance in the coiuntry, also has an SRF that reflects that cost. Your suggesting that the SRF is tied to the marketing decisions Uber makes about local FARES to drive business growth - and that is not true. If it were, the FARE for UberSELECT and UberX and UberXL and UberSUV and UberLUX - would ALL change with any change ithe SRF - and it doesn't. Do Uber regional OPsManagers and mmarketing look at overal fare rpicing and adjust it to drive growth? Of course. So what.
> 
> Your harping on what a start-up company did two years as they developed their consumer price models and structure is meaningless to what the driver today wants to know about reading their 2015 1099K and understanding how the SRF relates to their earnings. Your going on with your myth is just confusing. The SRF is a financially Non-Impactful fee that drivers see on their 1099k. It is subtracted from FARES and does not decrease their EARNINGS.


From a tax point of veiw i can agree with you. Sorry I was half asleep last night. Your explanation sounded like the Koolaid others have spoken before. The overall truth is it does not effect the income that we claim on taxes. However it does effect the income we receive from uber.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tomabq said:


> The overall truth is it does not effect the income that we claim on taxes. However it does effect the income we receive from uber.


The SRF does not effect the income we receive.
Drivers earnings are based only on FARES... not fees.
We do not get paid any portion of SAFE RIDE FEES and we do not get paid any portion of SPLIT FARE fees.
Uber charges drivers commission (Uber Fee) only on the FARE - not the fees.

Is it annoying (ok, *outrageous*) that Uber raises the fees they charge riders to cover Uber's costs
while lowering the fares riders pay which go to covering driver's costs? 
*ABSOLUTLEY!*
But that doesn't change the fact that the SRF is a non-impact line item for drivers - it doesn't lower our earnings.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The SRF does not effect the income we receive.
> Drivers earnings are based only on FARES... not fees.
> We do not get paid any portion of SAFE RIDE FEES and we do not get paid any portion of SPLIT FARE fees.
> Uber charges drivers commission (Uber Fee) only on the FARE - not the fees.
> ...


Man, if the minimum was originally $5 and we made $4 on the minimum then they add a $1 fee to which they subtract from the $5minimumand our new take home is $3.20. How does this not effect our earnings! Please tell me, I just lost.80 due soley to the new fee.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tomabq said:


> Man, if the minimum was originally $5 and we made $4 on the minimum then they add a $1 fee to which they subtract from the $5minimumand our new take home is $3.20. How does this not effect our earnings! Please tell me, I just lost.80 due soley to the new fee.


I've already told you - I can't help it if you don't want to listen.
Done here. Drive safe.


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