# Is it REALLY bad as it sounds?



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


----------



## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

Is it really as bad as it sounds, you ask?
Yes and probably even a little worse.
Keep that pizza job, my friend.


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


----------



## TravisNJ (Apr 7, 2015)

Uber is worse. You'll make more net with the Pizza job because you aren't running your car into the ground. Compare driving 50 miles tops a day doing pizza to over 200+.


----------



## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

It may be, depending on the market you're in.

But i would rather deliver pizza rather than customers that are vomiting in my car.

There is so much bad that comes with doing uber it would make your head spin.

I would tell you to keep that pizza job and only do uber part time if you must. You will think you like it at first but don't be fooled. After a month or so ... you will be asking for extra hours at the pizza joint.


----------



## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


Not driving daytime hours


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

TravisNJ said:


> Uber is worse. You'll make more net with the Pizza job because you aren't running your car into the ground. Compare driving 50 miles tops a day doing pizza to over 200+.


Actually I'm putting nearly a hundred miles a day running my car into the ground. And only coming up with around $30 in tips


----------



## jodie (Mar 25, 2016)

Thats way more tips than I've gotten in 2 months! Go you!


----------



## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

See if Lyft is available to drive for in your area. It pays a little better, Lyft treats drivers with a little respect and you get tips. You DO NOT get tips with Uber because uber tells customers to not tip the drivers, that tips are not necessary.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Does the pizza joint give you a free pizza at the end of the day? If so, at least you get dinner out of it.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


No, it isn't that bad.

The drivers who say it's bad fall into these categories:


Drivers who got lucky and had a taste of the good old days when the rates were crazy high - They tend to be bitter
Drivers who don't want you to drive because you are competition either to them driving Uber, to their taxi, or to the business that they lost as a result of Uber
Drivers who don't understand business and taxes and who speak from emotion instead of from dispassionately observing the numbers collected in their spreadsheet

You can easily make $500 a week. But only do it with a used car, preferably a used Prius.


----------



## Patoola (Apr 10, 2016)

You can earn 500 a week with Uber if you drive during peak hours in busy locations. Try doing it for a few weeks and see for yourself.


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

Nope, not getting free pizza, half price. Running the numbers, delivering I'm making about $80 a day over the course of about 7 hours. This includes all income: taxed pay, gas reimbursement, and tips. I heard I could do better with uber but you are all scaring the pants off me.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I can't imagine that you'll be able to work days in Wilmington and come up with $100 a day + expenses. You might in the middle of the summer with tourists but the rest of the year you will starve. You will have to drive late Friday and Sat. to make any money.


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

I have a used minivan so can uber xl also


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

But bottom line, try it for yourself and see. Sign up, get "sick" one day and try it for yourself. The rates suck in Wilmington just like everywhere else so at .75 a mile before expenses and Uber's cut, it isn't going to be easy.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> But bottom line, try it for yourself and see. Sign up, get "sick" one day and try it for yourself. The rates suck in Wilmington just like everywhere else so at .75 a mile before expenses and Uber's cut, it isn't going to be easy.


Exactly! It costs nothing to try it, so sign up, drive for a day or two and see how it goes.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> No, it isn't that bad.
> 
> The drivers who say it's bad fall into these categories:
> 
> ...


One of my favorite comments ever. (Truly)



Dailydriver said:


> Nope, not getting free pizza, half price. Running the numbers, delivering I'm making about $80 a day over the course of about 7 hours. This includes all income: taxed pay, gas reimbursement, and tips. I heard I could do better with uber but you are all scaring the pants off me.


Not sure which part of NC you're in. Demographics can vary wildly from Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Raleigh-Durham. I suggest downloading the rider app Uber and Lyft if both available) and use a promo code to take a free ride. Chat the driver up about how business is. If they are willing to share some info with you get their referral code and sign up with that code for a bonus. I doubt you're in the pizza shop early on (5am-10am). You could try adding Uber/Lyft in during those hours to get a feel for it before dumping the pizza joint. Personally, I gross over $25/hour and net over $20/hour. That is Boston though, and I work some of the worst and best hours. As a result, my experience doesn't relate to the best or worst one could expect from this gig.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

You could also checkout Postmates or Amazon Flex, I've heard that can be ok money.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> But bottom line, try it for yourself and see. Sign up, get "sick" one day and try it for yourself. The rates suck in Wilmington just like everywhere else so at .75 a mile before expenses and Uber's cut, it isn't going to be easy.


At those rates, you may be able to bring in $500/week in revenue, but you will not make an after-expense profit of $500 in a week, unless you ignore most of your expenses.

Let's run some very rough numbers to make this simple, using only the mileage rate and the standard IRS deduction for expenses. Yes, the per-minute rate will add a small amount, and yes, some people think the IRS deduction overstates their expenses, but that's an argument for another day. These numbers are just to illustrate what a losing game it is driving at rates less than $1/mile. Think rough numbers. Here they are:

Revenue after Uber's cut: $0.75 x 0.75 = $0.56/mile

$0.56/mile - $0.54/mile expenses = $0.02/mile profit.

To make a profit of $500, you will have to drive 25,000 miles with passengers in your car. Does that seem feasible in a week?

If I was you, I'd keep the pizza job and wait, hoping Uber raises the rates to over $1/mile.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> At those rates, you may be able to bring in $500/week in revenue, but you will not make an after-expense profit of $500, unless you drive 12-15 hours a day.
> 
> Let's run some very rough numbers to make this simple, using only the mileage rate and the standard IRS deduction for expenses. Yes, the per-minute rate will add a small amount, and yes, some people think the IRS deduction overstates their expenses, but that's an argument for another day. These numbers are just to illustrate what a losing game it is driving at rates less than $1/mile. Think rough numbers. Here they are:
> 
> ...


Sigh...

Let's see: start out by requiring agreement in a farcical scenario (IRS allowed deduction == actual operating costs) and...

Wait what? No. You don't get that point. The entire argument beyond that point invalid due to that point.

Which category do you fall into? Did you lose a business? Drive a cab? Or just hate competition?


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

And where do you come up with $0.52 a mile operating cost? Gas right now is about $0.12 a mile for me


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

The only time one can say the IRS deduction realistically accounts for their actual expenses is if they don't own a car, are planning on buying a brand new car, and taking on all the expenses of the car JUST for business use. Otherwise, it is wildly inaccurate. 

The IRS comes to it's figure based on cars manufactured in the last 5 years, used across the entire country. It counts things the OP and majority of drivers ALREADY have as far as expenses (insurance, registration, property, excise and sales taxes). NOBODY can tell ANY other driver what their costs are unless they are driving the same market in the same car (year, model, and package) with the same mileage. You can, of course, tell people what YOUR expenses are IF you calculate them YOURSELF. 

For instance, I had an 08 minivan last year and a 15 minivan this year. Expenses (including all vehicle metrics such as depreciation, maintenance, repair and fuel etc.) ran about $0.28/mile. But that is me.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Daily, you're going to have to calculate your own expenses. As I said above, nobody can accurately tell you your real costs. But you can figure it yourself rather easily. Just make sure you're counting ALL miles (app on with or without a passenger) and apportion the amount of any repairs maintenance according to how many miles are business vs personal. So if after a month, half your miles are business and half are personal, then half the cost of your oil changes, repairs, etc are business and half are personal. If 90% of your miles are business then 90% of those costs are business.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Undermensch said:


> Sigh...
> 
> Let's see: start out by requiring agreement in a farcical scenario (IRS allowed deduction == actual operating costs) and...
> 
> ...


LOL, no. I have three successful businesses (home inspections, freelance writing, and most recently Ubering/Lyfting). I have never driven a cab. I welcome competition, and this guy lives in a different city than I do, so he isn't competition, anyway.

There are a few drivers who make decent money at this gig for the hours spent and the miles driven. I have watched these guys and gals and have learned a metric shit-ton from them. These drivers have many things in common. They are smart mofos who watch every expense and know where to be, when to be there, and why they should be there, and they know how to slay the surge. I flatter myself to think I am now one of them and do the best I can to help others get there.

Do you know what else all these folks have in common? They drive in markets where the mileage rates are $1/mile or more. No one makes worthwhile money in a market like this man's, where his take-home before expenses is $0.54/mile. Nothing but driving nearly non-stop and putting a bazillion miles on your car is going to get you above minimum wage if you start out bringing home just pennies per mile more than your expenses. And even if you think gas is your only expense or that your car runs on unicorn farts and fairy tears and will never wear out or break, your denial of reality might get you to a false wage of $10/hour on your $0.54/mile.

If you can't see the truth in the above, you are the most common form of life here: the professional uberdenialist. Numbers are things to be ignored. Revenue is profit, and you pull down $35/hour. Gas is your only expense. Your car never needs maintenance or breaks. On and on. It's all very Orwellian.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Wilmington, NC has the exact same Lyft rates as Boston. $2.00 - $1.22 - $0.18 with $5 minimum. Business may not be as busy down, but I imagine the warmer months could be bank on the coast. This is why he needs to talk to a local driver.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> The only time one can say the IRS deduction realistically accounts for their actual expenses is if they don't own a car, are planning on buying a brand new car, and taking on all the expenses of the car JUST for business use. Otherwise, it is wildly inaccurate.
> 
> The IRS comes to it's figure based on cars manufactured in the last 5 years, used across the entire country. It counts things the OP and majority of drivers ALREADY have as far as expenses (insurance, registration, property, excise and sales taxes). NOBODY can tell ANY other driver what their costs are unless they are driving the same market in the same car (year, model, and package) with the same mileage. You can, of course, tell people what YOUR expenses are IF you calculate them YOURSELF.
> 
> For instance, I had an 08 minivan last year and a 15 minivan this year. Expenses (including all vehicle metrics such as depreciation, maintenance, repair and fuel etc.) ran about $0.28/mile. But that is me.


Nobody knows what the total cost of driving their car is or will be until they sell it, trade it in, or scrap it. My expenses this morning tell me only what they were this morning. My expenses for 2015 tell me only what they were during 2015. And so on. I drive a 2008 Prius that I paid cash for. I do all my own maintenance, and I have yet to repair or replace any non-maintenance items. I have Metromile insurance that costs $40/month and $0.05/mile but does not charge me for any miles once I have accepted an Uber ride request until passenger drop-off. Few here have lower day-to-day operating expenses than I do.

But my lucky streak could end suddenly and expensively at any moment. The car could break tomorrow or be in a collision, and I would have to repair or replace it or pay a deductible or whatever. I cannot know today what those expenses might be, so, I put away the $0.54/mile to pay my operating expenses, saving the surplus for repairs and deductibles and for replacing the car. This is what sustainable businesses do.

You all can do whatever you like.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I have money put aside as well, we all should. But claiming it costs 54 cents when it doesn't, simply because it is convenient, is not good bookkeeping. 

Depreciation IS the cost of wear and tear. It is what the individual components are worth as a whole after a certain amount of use. You can track depreciation easily by comparing the value when you bought it (not the price you paid for it) compared to the current value with the miles and changes in condition you've added. Yes, this number isn't final until you sell or scrap the car. But last year I grossed $37k on 30k business miles, after commission. My van cost me $7k and I traded it for $2k. So even on the most basic level, the car only lost $0.16/mile for my business use.


----------



## racerman50 (Apr 11, 2016)

I am 1 month new to uber and a few days on this site. I need some illumination. My overall take on this site ( <3 hours quick and random reading) is that the vast majority here are negative about uber and mostly bashing it. I am a retired guy, have 2 part time day businesses and wanted something to do 3 nights a week as an independent contractor. I am a weekend warrior in a coastal resort area where 'the season' has not yet begun. My goal with tips ( a concept that apparently eludes millennials and drunks) is $100 - $125/night, working 9 PM - 2 AM. log about 100 actual miles / night and average >51 mpg in my Prius ( which is - sorry - uber reliable and has minimal maintenance costs. I get a .57/mile tax deduction in addition to >$20/hour in an area where $8 - 10/ hour for blue collar work is the norm. I am satisfied although listening to drunks babble is a great teacher of patience What am I missing and why are so many here still working for uber if it really is so bad?


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

Most of these "operating costs" I also incur delivering pizza. When on a delivery i am only getting 4.50 an hour plus tips (which lately is about $30 to $40 total on a 7 or 8 hour shift. I'll be trying it out next week. I bought a used van for 5k so I'm not looking at depreciation a whole lot. Keep discussing though, I'm learning a lot from you all.


----------



## jonnyplastic (Feb 11, 2016)

*Delivering Pizza and Uber. 2 of the worst jobs in mankind.*


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

racerman50 said:


> I am 1 month new to uber and a few days on this site. I need some illumination. My overall take on this site ( <3 hours quick and random reading) is that the vast majority here are negative about uber and mostly bashing it. I am a retired guy, have 2 part time day businesses and wanted something to do 3 nights a week as an independent contractor. I am a weekend warrior in a coastal resort area where 'the season' has not yet begun. My goal with tips ( a concept that apparently eludes millennials and drunks) is $100 - $125/night, working 9 PM - 2 AM. log about 100 actual miles / night and average >51 mpg in my Prius ( which is - sorry - uber reliable and has minimal maintenance costs. I get a .57/mile tax deduction in addition to >$20/hour in an area where $8 - 10/ hour for blue collar work is the norm. I am satisfied although listening to drunks babble is a great teacher of patience What am I missing and why are so many here still working for uber if it really is so bad?


 you're getting $100 in 5 hours in OBX?

That's the kind of pay I'm hoping for. I'm not opposed to nights and weekends entirely, just wasn't willing to get stuck with it on a schedule where a poorly run pizza shop makes it hard for drivers to make a decent wage.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I have money put aside as well, we all should. But claiming it costs 54 cents when it doesn't, simply because it is convenient, is not good bookkeeping.
> 
> Depreciation IS the cost of wear and tear. It is what the individual components are worth as a whole after a certain amount of use. You can track depreciation easily by comparing the value when you bought it (not the price you paid for it) compared to the current value with the miles and changes in condition you've added. Yes, this number isn't final until you sell or scrap the car. But last year I grossed $37k on 30k business miles, after commission. My van cost me $7k and I traded it for $2k. So even on the most basic level, the car only lost $0.16/mile for my business use.


Depreciation is not necessarily the sole cost of or even the major cost of wear and tear. Parts break. Cars get in accidents. Shit happens, and much of that is not in your control and can't necessarily be predicted. And as I said: You never really know what the cost was until you scrap, trade, or sell the car.

You now know for the car you traded in, but that car could just as easily have suffered a major breakdown or accident. Smart businessmen plan for those things.

There are many expensive parts on a Prius that are known to start breaking once the car exceeds the 180,000 miles that are now on my car. I am hoping that should my car break or get in an accident, I will have enough saved out of the $0.54/mile to repair it and ultimately to pay for a replacement car. This is what sustainable businesses do. It is what I am doing. You all are free to do as you like with your businesses.


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

I guess my main reasoning was if I can pull 100$ a day sitting in my car vs 100$ a day for prepping, cleaning, cooking, and delivery it would be worth it. I guess I will spend more in gas per day, but I hoped that I'd make enough to cover the difference.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Depreciation is not necessarily the sole cost of or even the major cost of wear and tear. Parts break. Cars get in accidents. Shit happens, and much of that is not in your control and can't necessarily be predicted. And as I said: You never really know what the cost was until you scrap, trade, or sell the car.
> 
> You now know for the car you traded in, but that car could just as easily have suffered a major breakdown or accident. Smart businessmen plan for those things.
> 
> There are many expensive parts on a Prius that are known to start breaking once the car exceeds the 180,000 miles that are now on my car. I am hoping that should my car break or get in an accident, I will have enough saved out of the $0.54/mile to repair it and ultimately to pay for a replacement car. This is what sustainable businesses do. It is what I am doing. You all are free to do as you like with your businesses.


Yes, and I agreed with you that you should put money away. But you're suggesting I should have had $16k put away out of my 30k miles. That's ludicrous. That's enough to buy my van twice over again. Yes, expensive things can happen and they should be accounted for. But they aren't expenses UNTIL and IF they happen. I traded in because of a radiator leak. That was a $700 job that I could have paid for 4 times with my emergency fund. But I chose not to. Therefor it wasn't an expense. Just like replacing the transmission wasn't an expense or doing major body work wasn't an expense. Because I didn't do those things. Is the transmission worth less now than when I had bought it? Of course! But that's why I got $2k for it instead of the $7k I paid for it.

There is saving for a rainy day, doing solid accounting of your actual expenses, and reconciling your expenses. You cannot predict what your cost will be for certain, but you can accurately represent what your costs have been. And that is what depreciation is for. Accounting along the way, and then adjusting when a major issue comes along.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> Yes, and I agreed with you that you should put money away. But you're suggesting I should have had $16k put away out of my 30k miles. That's ludicrous. That's enough to buy my van twice over again. Yes, expensive things can happen and they should be accounted for. But they aren't expenses UNTIL and IF they happen. I traded in because of a radiator leak. That was a $700 job that I could have paid for 4 times with my emergency fund. But I chose not to. Therefor it wasn't an expense. Just like replacing the transmission wasn't an expense or doing major body work wasn't an expense. Because I didn't do those things. Is the transmission worth less now than when I had bought it? Of course! But that's why I got $2k for it instead of the $7k I paid for it.
> 
> There is saving for a rainy day, doing solid accounting of your actual expenses, and reconciling your expenses. You cannot predict what your cost will be for certain, but you can accurately represent what your costs have been. And that is what depreciation is for. Accounting along the way, and then adjusting when a major issue comes along.


No. If your actual expenses were $0.25 per mile (or whatever you listed), you would have about $8k put away, since you spent the rest on operating expenses. The remaining $8k could be used to replace the car should it break or be destroyed in an accident. That is not ludicrous. That is good planning. How horrible would it be to have $8k in the bank to replace your $8k van if it was destroyed by a hit-and-run driver?

As I said, though: Run your business any way you like. I will do the same.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

That's why I have insurance LOL, $300 deductible. And if my insurance didn't pay out, Lyft had $25k contingent coverage. More than covers my loss, and that's only assuming I'm at fault or other driver is un/under-insured. My emergency fund more than covers the $2500 deductible from Lyft. Though, honestly, anything over $2k out of pocket in any car and I'm scrapping or trading in. 

Back to the original point: Expenses are not $0.54/mile. Not for 99.99% of drivers. You buy a brand new escalade for business only, then we'll talk about that number being close.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I should also point out that at this point I'm only 20k miles into a 60k bumper-bumper and 100k power train warranty. When the PT warranty expires I'll probably trade in again.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I should also point out that at this point I'm only 20k miles into a 60k bumper-bumper and 100k power train warranty. When the PT warranty expires I'll probably trade in again.


Such warranties are often void if a vehicle is used for livery driving.


BostonBarry said:


> That's why I have insurance LOL, $300 deductible. And if my insurance didn't pay out, Lyft had $25k contingent coverage. More than covers my loss, and that's only assuming I'm at fault or other driver is un/under-insured. My emergency fund more than covers the $2500 deductible from Lyft. Though, honestly, anything over $2k out of pocket in any car and I'm scrapping or trading in.
> 
> Back to the original point: Expenses are not $0.54/mile. Not for 99.99% of drivers. You buy a brand new escalade for business only, then we'll talk about that number being close.


That is all your subjective opinion and is a statement of risks you are willing to take that others might not, and at best that opinion applies only in your particular circumstances.

As I said, run your business however you want.

I will continue to do what I do and most likely I will have cash in the bank to replace my car when the time comes. This homie don't do payments on depreciating assets.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I take no issue with you doing business and accounting however you like. I take issue with:



Greguzzi said:


> $0.56/mile - $0.54/mile expenses = $0.02/mile profit.
> 
> To make a profit of $500, you will have to drive 25,000 miles with passengers in your car. Does that seem feasible in a week?
> 
> If I was you, I'd keep the pizza job and wait, hoping Uber raises the rates to over $1/mile.


You did not present this as subjective. You offered it up as an analysis as to whether this particular driver will profit or not.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I take no issue with you doing business and accounting however you like. I take issue with:
> 
> You did not present this as subjective. You offered it up as an analysis as to whether this particular driver will profit or not.


I presented hard numbers and laid out the rationale behind those numbers. When one is taking home before expenses $0.56/mile it matters relatively little if his expenses are $0.54/mile or $0.25/mile. He isn't going to make much of a profit for the time and miles.

Let's run the numbers at the $0.25/mile you use as your expense figure. His after-expenses profit is $0.54 - $0.25 = $0.19/mile, so he'll have to drive more than 2,500 miles a week with a passenger in his car to make a profit of $500. At 30mph, that means he will have a passenger in his car for 83 hours and will be making $6/hour doing it. At the end of the year, he will have put on 130,000 miles carrying passengers. To make $6/hour. Then, add in dead miles and take away $0.25/mile for each of those miles.


----------



## Cocobird (Dec 9, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


Depends, you can probably make more than that if you are willing to work 10 pm to 4 am. But, day time? Keep your day job, really.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> I presented hard numbers and laid out the rationale behind those numbers. When one is taking home before expenses $0.56/mile it matters relatively little if his expenses are $0.54/mile or $0.25/mile. He isn't going to make much of a profit for the time and miles.
> 
> Let's run the numbers at the $0.25/mile you use as your expense figure. His after-expenses profit is $0.54 - $0.25 = $0.19/mile, so he'll have to drive more than 2,500 miles a week with a passenger in his car to make a profit of $500. At 30mph, that means he will have a passenger in his car for 83 hours and will be making $6/hour doing it. At the end of the year, he will have put on 130,000 miles carrying passengers. To make $6/hour. Then, add in dead miles and take away $0.25/mile for each of those miles.


You're also neglecting the MOST valuable metrics and focusing entirely on mileage rate and only that of uber whereas Lyft is much higher in his market.

I get paid 4 minutes for every paid mile. At $0.18/minute that is $0.72/mile, $0.54/mile after 25% commission.

And the pickup fee. I do 75+ rides/ week, that is $150/week, $112.50/week if paying 25% commission.

I gross about $100 in tips each week (10% of gross fares on avg, most weeks I do $1000 in fares, if I have a mini-getaway or family obligation I've gone as low as $700)

Then there is the Power Driver Bonus and passenger referrals.

Drivers who evaluate solely on mileage are doing themselves a huge disservice. Drivers who tell other drivers that is the only number that matters, do everyone a disservice.


----------



## kingUber (Mar 7, 2016)

Listen mate. Been a driver for a year. Never experienced the hey days. I come from a family of self employed people. My father runs a food truck. My brother runs his own laundromat and my mum runs a daycare. Each business has so many expenses but you have to understand the true cost of doing business. I drive in NYC and so the rates are some of the highest. The past year saw me bring in 65k after Ubers Cut. I don't work 7 days, I actually do 6. I work 4 hours in morning 4 hours in night during week and 8 hours from 10am on weekends. I usually take Wednesday's off. I studied my market and have a very good understanding of the patterns. The car obviously received wear and tear, there were maintenance costs but I have seen this same story in all our family businesses. You are a business owner. Manage the business. It is absolutely profitable, you have a depreciating asset just make sure to make it a profitable depreciating assest. Only advise Get something that's good on gas!!


----------



## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

My best investment since I started to drive for Lyber was to stop driving for 2 weeks and prepare for job interviews. I had several interviews last week and hope to start a real job soon.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> You're also neglecting the MOST valuable metrics and focusing entirely on mileage rate and only that of uber whereas Lyft is much higher in his market.
> 
> I get paid 4 minutes for every paid mile. At $0.18/minute that is $0.72/mile, $0.54/mile after 25% commission.
> 
> ...


Again, you are looking only at your situation and not this guy's. I don't interject my situation here because it is not relevant. I could brag about all the money I make, too, but how does that help this guy in making his decision?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

It's funny how people always skew these calculations to make them worst case. In this example Greguzzi simply dismissed the per minute rate as neglible. If this driver in NC is averaging a speed of 40mph with a fare, that's 1.5 minutes a mile, or $0.18 per mile. When your looking at net earnings of 25 to 50 cents a mile, 18 cents per mile is hardly negligible.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> It's funny how people always skew these calculations to make them worst case. In this example Greguzzi simply dismissed the per minute rate as neglible. If this driver in NC is averaging a speed of 40mph with a fare, that's 1.5 minutes a mile, or $0.18 per mile. When your looking at net earnings of 25 to 50 cents a mile, 18 cents per mile is hardly negligible.


No. It isn't significant. It's the difference between $4 per hour and $6 per hour. Is either wage really worth wearing out your car driving around strangers to make a billionaire richer?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> No. It isn't significant. It's the difference between $4 per hour and $6 per hour. Is either wage really worth wearing out your car driving around strangers to make a billionaire richer?


If with your best effort you can earn only $4-$6 per hour, I would question whether you have the experience to be giving advice on this message board.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> If with your best effort you can earn only $4-$6 per hour, I would question whether you have the experience to be giving advice on this message board.


Quit being obtuse. This is not about me. This is the numbers for that guy in his market. That guy is looking at profiting, at best, $0.25 per mile.

I almost always pull in pre-expense revenue of $1.50-$2.000 or more per mile, counting all miles from when I leave my house until I return. Even doing it as I do with deducting $0.54 per mile, I am profiting $1-$1.50-ish per mile. In other words, I profit 4-6x as much as he can.

How 'bout you? What do you profit?

Do you haver the courage to look at your numbers? If so, post them.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Quit being obtuse. This is not about me. This is the numbers for that guy in his market. That guy is looking at profiting, at best, $0.25 per mile.
> 
> I almost always pull in pre-expense revenue of $1.50-$2.000 or more per mile, counting all miles from when I leave my house until I return. Even doing it as I do with deducting $0.54 per mile, I am profiting $1-$1.50-ish per mile. In other words, I profit 4-6x as much as he can.
> 
> ...


Actually, it is about you. You've made it about you by continually making either accidentally naive cost analysis or intentionally misleading cost analysis.

You keep saying people can do what they want but... you... can't... stop... repeating... yourself. Maybe post it once, then give it a rest?


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Undermensch said:


> Actually, it is about you. You've made it about you by continually making either accidentally naive cost analysis or intentionally misleading cost analysis.
> 
> You keep saying people can do what they want but... you... can't... stop... repeating... yourself. Maybe post it once, then give it a rest?


LOL. Until that last post, I never even mentioned my numbers. I have just been trying to help someone who asked figure out the numbers for his market. That seems to bother you, Travis. Why is that?


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> LOL. Until that last post, I never even mentioned my numbers. I have just been trying to help someone who asked figure out the numbers for his market. That seems to bother you, Travis. Why is that?


OMGryouatrollorwhat?

Seriously, maybe just step back from the keyboard. Take a break.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Undermensch said:


> OMGryouatrollorwhat?
> 
> Seriously, maybe just step back from the keyboard. Take a break.


 Sure thing, Travis. I'll talk no more sense to your "partners" for a few minutes. I love Uber. I make life-changing money driving for Uber. Most days, I pull a legit $100/hour driving for Uber. Seriously, bro. I make $100/hour driving my car. How can you beat that. bro?


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Remember too, you don't have much flexibility with your schedule either. Despite the Uber PR. Yes you're free to work whenever, but there isn't demand whenever. You'll have to work according to demand. Where I live there's demand at 04:00 through 09:00. Weekdays. This is the outbound airport stuff. You may not want to get up at 03:00. 

Read this forum for a month. Then study the passenger app. Then order about 5 or 10 rides and ask the drivers questions about their strategies.

$500/week net on Uber X? Possibly, but I say that's among the highest net earners.
To net that working less than 40 hrs? Doubtful.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

stuber said:


> Remember too, you don't have much flexibility with your schedule either. Despite the Uber PR. Yes you're free to work whenever, but there isn't demand whenever. You'll have to work according to demand. Where I live there's demand at 04:00 through 09:00. Weekdays. This is the outbound airport stuff. You may not want to get up at 03:00.
> 
> Read this forum for a month. Then study the passenger app. Then order about 5 or 10 rides and ask the drivers questions about their strategies.
> 
> ...


And there is that "busy hours" limitation, too. I am a surge-wh*re, and I bump up against that limitation frequently, even in busting-at-the-seams Seattle. My Uber app stays off until the surge is 2.0x or higher. That only happens so many hours per week. If you are in podunkville whatever state, you're just not gonna earn much without surge. Uber has cut all the cream out of driving. It's a burger-flipping-wage job, now, in most markets, unless you ignore most of your costs. Don't make that mistake.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> And there is that "busy hours" limitation, too. I am a surge-wh*re, and I bump up against that limitation frequently, even in busting-at-the-seams Seattle. My Uber app stays off until the surge is 2.0x or higher. That only happens so many hours per week. If you are in podunkville whatever state, you're just not gonna earn much without surge. Uber has cut all the cream out of driving. It's a burger-flipping-wage job, now, in most markets, unless you ignore most of your costs. Don't make that mistake.


I'm done debating. You have ZERO common sense or willingness to help this guy. You're just another troll that starts losing the argument and falls back on the Travis name-calling.

Fact: NOBODY has $0.54/mile expenses here and that certainly isn't what OP can expect for expenses.

Fact: (conveniently ignored in earlier post) MINUTES and PICKUP are equally as important if not more important chunks of a driver's pay than MILES alone. (Proof attached)

Fact: while I've prefaced my numbers by saying "for me" and "this is in Boston", you only just now admitted these are your numbers and may not be the same for OP. BUT YOU'RE STILL SAYING HIS EXPENSES ARE $0.54 AND HE'LL BE LUCKY TO EARN MINIMUM WAGE.

Fact: I am 20% commission and hit PDB 20% just about every week. If I were saying my numbers would be his numbers, I would not have bothered to display the 25% commission.

Fact: There's one propagandist in this thread. It's you.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

BostonBarry said:


> The only time one can say the IRS deduction realistically accounts for their actual expenses is if they don't own a car, are planning on buying a brand new car, and taking on all the expenses of the car JUST for business use. Otherwise, it is wildly inaccurate.
> 
> The IRS comes to it's figure based on cars manufactured in the last 5 years, used across the entire country. It counts things the OP and majority of drivers ALREADY have as far as expenses (insurance, registration, property, excise and sales taxes). NOBODY can tell ANY other driver what their costs are unless they are driving the same market in the same car (year, model, and package) with the same mileage. You can, of course, tell people what YOUR expenses are IF you calculate them YOURSELF.
> 
> For instance, I had an 08 minivan last year and a 15 minivan this year. Expenses (including all vehicle metrics such as depreciation, maintenance, repair and fuel etc.) ran about $0.28/mile. But that is me.


At 28 cpm with 50% dead miles it's still a money loser.


----------



## A Morgan (Apr 4, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Nope, not getting free pizza, half price. Running the numbers, delivering I'm making about $80 a day over the course of about 7 hours. This includes all income: taxed pay, gas reimbursement, and tips. I heard I could do better with uber but you are all scaring the pants off me.


Taxed Pay? Gas Reimbursement? Tips? Uber drivers know not of these things you speak.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> At 28 cpm with 50% dead miles it's still a money loser.


I have 3000 rides and almost a year of actual data to show this is a false statement. Hell, the screenshot I shared above of a daily summary shows it to be false.

Even if my expenses were as high as $0.54/mile, that would have been $100 in expenses for a little under 200 total miles that day.

Out of $350 gross, $290 net revenue after commission.

$190 net profit after expenses.

For 12 hours online (3 if which were on my couch) that is $15.83/hour. Far above minimum wage here in MA and certainly in NC.

Now look at the numbers with my actual expenses and PDB factored. $360 (actual revenue) - $50 (actual expenses) = $310 net profit after 12 hours comes to $25.83/hour.

The numbers don't lie, guys. And boston isn't even the highest market, though we are better off than many others. Even if our $2.00 - $1.22 - $0.18 rates were cut in half, my profit would still be almost $13/hour, which wouldn't be worth it to me but certainly is much higher than minimum wage or even entry level hourly at most places.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> I'm done debating. You have ZERO common sense or willingness to help this guy. You're just another troll that starts losing the argument and falls back on the Travis name-calling.
> 
> Fact: NOBODY has $0.54/mile expenses here and that certainly isn't what OP can expect for expenses.
> 
> ...


You never began debating. I did not use my numbers. I re-did them later with your silly $0.35/mile figure, and it made little difference. Whatever, though. Too much bullshit to counter in one post.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

You can't even quote accurately. Show me a $0.35 I posted


----------



## jodie (Mar 25, 2016)

kingUber said:


> Listen mate. Been a driver for a year. Never experienced the hey days. I come from a family of self employed people. My father runs a food truck. My brother runs his own laundromat and my mum runs a daycare. Each business has so many expenses but you have to understand the true cost of doing business. I drive in NYC and so the rates are some of the highest. The past year saw me bring in 65k after Ubers Cut. I don't work 7 days, I actually do 6. I work 4 hours in morning 4 hours in night during week and 8 hours from 10am on weekends. I usually take Wednesday's off. I studied my market and have a very good understanding of the patterns. The car obviously received wear and tear, there were maintenance costs but I have seen this same story in all our family businesses. You are a business owner. Manage the business. It is absolutely profitable, you have a depreciating asset just make sure to make it a profitable depreciating assest. Only advise Get something that's good on gas!!


This made me feel so much better!


----------



## Firstime (Apr 2, 2016)

I made $100 yesterday during the day (note-I did take 3 last night after the gym but bc it was my first day and I was curious to see if it was just as busy),and $8 in tips. I did not drive during the surge and I don't live in a major city. I say if this guy is driving his own car to deliver pizza he may as well use it to uber if he's averaging the same or more. Maybe keep the pizza as a part time, so if you get deactivated you still have your foot in the door. I'm honestly surprised at all the uber haters here. I tried sharing I had a good day yesterday and was met with snide and sarcastic comments. Why be a part of the forum if you only have something negative to say? Do you honestly think we are gonna quit just bc you bi#! and moan?


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Wow, the defenders are out in full force! Guys, you can spin it however you want, but anything under $1 a mile is a joke and not worth your time or damage to your ride. When I was at higher mileage, base and per minute it was BARELY worth doing (2 years ago). The rates today are around 1970 cab rates, USING YOUR OWN CAR AND FUEL! Don't even get me started on the insurance risks, but it's cute all of you all who are working for pennies have it figured out. Keep driving suckers, Travis loves ya.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> Wow, the defenders are out in full force! Guys, you can spin it however you want, but anything under $1 a mile is a joke and not worth your time or damage to your ride. When I was at higher mileage, base and per minute it was BARELY worth doing. The rates today are around 1970 cab rates, USING YOUR OWN CAR AND FUEL! Don't even get me started on the insurance risks, but it's cute all of you all who are working for pennies have it figured out.


Very emotion based. No facts. Thanks for you contribution!


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> Wow, the defenders are out in full force! Guys, you can spin it however you want, but anything under $1 a mile is a joke and not worth your time or damage to your ride. When I was at higher mileage, base and per minute it was BARELY worth doing. The rates today are around 1970 cab rates, USING YOUR OWN CAR AND FUEL! Don't even get me started on the insurance risks, but it's cute all of you all who are working for pennies have it figured out.


Yeah, I'm paying for a$2500 mortgage and raising two kids on pennies. Those who can't or won't share Financials are lying to themselves and/or others. I've posted above what it is actually worth.


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

You want facts? I know what I used to be able to make and what I can make now. That's all the effing facts I need, got it?


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Not everyone lives in a constant demand city like Boston.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Nope. I shared current facts. If you have earnings that contradict mine and expense calculation that contradicts mine, I'm happy to compare. But just saying it is pennies doesn't make it so.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> Not everyone lives in a constant demand city like Boston.


LOL, I live 20 miles north of Boston. And it isn't constant demand here either. I get 2-3 rides an hour during the peak times and 1-2 an hour during the slow.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> Yeah, I'm paying for a$2500 mortgage and raising two kids on pennies. Those who can't or won't share Financials are lying to themselves and/or others. I've posted above what it is actually worth.


Yeah I love that nobody disputes the spreadsheets I posted in the Pay section. They never open them up and dispute one line in them.

The only time I got feedback on it was to say I didn't have depreciation in there, which I actually did (so they either didn't look that hard or didn't even look at all).

That they won't examine and try to rebut even a single case shows you that it's all just emotion driven by personal motivations I mentioned earlier.


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Keep defending it. You'll have your rates cut again or market flooded with drivers or both! When I started NOBODY complained at $1.30 a mile, hell they actually tipped more. But you wonders of Uber have it figured out at .80 a mile or whatever bogus rates you drive for.


----------



## jodie (Mar 25, 2016)

Holy shiot! !!! STOP UBERING IF YOU ARE SO MISERABLE!!!! WHO STAYS IN SOMETHING THEY HATE?? I've never seen anything like this before. it ain't what it used to be. Ok. Move on then Stop the boo hooing. How can you live a life of misery over UBER???? J IMENY CRICKETS!! GO PUMP GAS. PASS OUT PEANUTS AT THE GAME. DELIVER SHIT. WHATEVER!! If its not working for you STOP DOING IT. No, instead you choose to keep driving people around and cursing everything Signs of insanity. or stupidity. Idk.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> Keep defending it. You'll have your rates cut again or market flooded with drivers or both! When I started NOBODY complained at $1.30 a mile, hell they actually tipped more. But you wonders of Uber have it figured out at .80 a mile or whatever bogus rates you drive for.


I don't love the new rates. But... My spreadsheet shows I'm making (net after fees, tolls, expenses, anticipated repairs costs for brakes, shocks, and tires, plus depreciation) almost exactly what I was making before the rates cuts on both a per hour and per mile basis (including dead miles).

I'd love to get red in the face and scream about the low rates too... But then I look at my sheet and realize it didn't actually impact me negatively. In fact, on a weekly basis I'm able to get rides at more times now so I'm able to make more per week than I was before (I'm not in a city and the demand was very low during the week before the rate cuts).


----------



## Uberdancer (Mar 25, 2016)

"...keep your day job..." + 1 ... and gain a little experience along the way ... drive only on weekends or your days off and holidays ...


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

I don't think it's even worth doing on weekends anymore lol. Try to catch surges and even those are short lived. There's a reason there is such high turnover with uber: people figure out it's basically a scam and the money is not there.


----------



## Uberdancer (Mar 25, 2016)

Well...it's not every city and town that can support a major sports franchise, the ballet, a symphony, or an opera company ...


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I look at Boston rates or Outer Banks, ... and I'm thinking, sure you can make money doing this. 

I don't subscribe to the .54 a mile for expenses camp but in a lot of markets it's slim pickings at .70 a mile and not much action during the week. In smaller areas there are more dead miles because it's further between pickups AND direction of traffic is based on time. Saturday night in Raleigh from 9-11 most everyone wants to go downtown, you are empty going away. 11-12 probably equal going home and coming downtown. 12-1am dead, 1-3am going from downtown home. So we get a lot of dead miles and too many idiots to consistently get surge. Boston, even the Outer Banks, people are going all over through the evening, a more distributed and lucrative model. 

Bottom line, in my market (RDU) it's REALLY hard to make more than $10 an hour driving X after considering expenses (most shepple driving are probably doing more like 6-7). Given the risk you have to take and it being your car on the line, I say that's pretty slim.


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Dailydriver said:


> it's killing my soul


If your goal is to destroy your soul as quickly as possible, join Uber.

You'll also enjoy the added bonus of destroying your car.


----------



## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I look at Boston rates or Outer Banks, ... and I'm thinking, sure you can make money doing this.
> 
> I don't subscribe to the .54 a mile for expenses camp but in a lot of markets it's slim pickings at .70 a mile and not much action during the week. In smaller areas there are more dead miles because it's further between pickups AND direction of traffic is based on time. Saturday night in Raleigh from 9-11 most everyone wants to go downtown, you are empty going away. 11-12 probably equal going home and coming downtown. 12-1am dead, 1-3am going from downtown home. So we get a lot of dead miles and too many idiots to consistently get surge. Boston, even the Outer Banks, people are going all over through the evening, a more distributed and lucrative model.
> 
> Bottom line, in my market (RDU) it's REALLY hard to make more than $10 an hour driving X after considering expenses (most shepple driving are probably doing more like 6-7). Given the risk you have to take and it being your car on the line, I say that's pretty slim.


With Raleigh since January being .*70/mi .14/min* you're making *$10/hr without much surge*?.... good for you young man.

CITY: RALEIGH
 -uberX -> Base: $1.10 - Minute: $0.18 - Mile: $0.85 - Minimum: $4.80 - SRF: $1.80 - Cancel: $4 
-uberXL -> Base: $3 - Minute: $0.30 - Mile: $1.50 - Minimum: $7.80 - SRF: $1.80 - Cancel: $5 
+uberX -> Base: $1 - Minute: $0.14 - Mile: $0.70 - Minimum: $4.80 - SRF: $1.80 - Cancel: $4
+uberXL -> Base: $1.50 - Minute: $0.20 - Mile: $1.25 - Minimum: $7.80 - SRF: $1.80 - Cancel: $5
UberSELECT -> Base: $3 - Minute: $0.30 - Mile: $1.65 - Minimum: $10.80 - SRF: $1.80 - Cancel: $10

Courtesy: https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-rate-changes-as-of-jan-9-2016-1-pm-long.53518/#post-723099 

However the $7/hr figure would be the expected or in this case average earnings (probably with tips)

Obviously if one is hitting the normal busy hours, nites, bar closings fri-sat for 20hrs/week, the *$10/hr * figure may be realistic. The driver working 40+ hrs/week could perhaps expect closer to the $7 figure.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who started driving a cab for tips off and on since the *Reagan administration left office*... these figures are .... well.... *they're not good*.... Even for Cincinnati circa Cheap Trick, WKRP in Cincinnati, Barnaby Jones, John Lennon (and Reagan) being shot.......

Especially bringing a $17,000+ vehicle to the table....

Not Kidding...

Stay Safe
CC


----------



## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

At the current rates, at least on my market (0.75-0.78/mile, 0.11-0.12/minute, $2.25 - $3 minimal fare) the only ways to make _something_ are:

1) milk Lyft guarantees ($15-25/h before Lyft's cut).
2) snatch some rides with Uber surge > 2, preferably > 3.
3) exploit other temporary bonuses, if any.

This is getting more and more difficult due to low demand and fewer guarantee hours (for Lyft) and driver saturation (for both). All of the above is temporarily and not sustainable.

There is no reason to drive at regular rates at all, neither for Lyft nor Uber. There are two typical scenarios:

1) Having 2 or 3 minimal fares per hour, for $4.50-9.00 total, and wasting a gallon of gas (now close to $3).
2) Having a "long" ride for 15-20 miles for like $10-12, enjoying the same amount of dead miles back, wasting 1-1.5 hours depending on traffic, and burning 2 gallons worth about $6.

I actively drove for 9 weeks, 25-40 hours each, and only one of them was about $700 (milking guarantees), all others were $300-450. I made about $3300 gross, and drove over 3500 miles. I'm done with that.

So, do your math, OP.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Greguzzi said:


> At those rates, you may be able to bring in $500/week in revenue, but you will not make an after-expense profit of $500 in a week, unless you ignore most of your expenses.
> 
> Let's run some very rough numbers to make this simple, using only the mileage rate and the standard IRS deduction for expenses. Yes, the per-minute rate will add a small amount, and yes, some people think the IRS deduction overstates their expenses, but that's an argument for another day. These numbers are just to illustrate what a losing game it is driving at rates less than $1/mile. Think rough numbers. Here they are:
> 
> ...


It's worse than that. Your figures assume every mile is paid, and I estimate 40% 50% are paid, so you'll pay 2x 57.5 cents per paid mile.
You work at a loss, from an IRS 1040C perspective.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> If your goal is to destroy your soul as quickly as possible, join Uber.
> 
> You'll also enjoy the added bonus of destroying your car.


So you do it for what reason?


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> It's worse than that. Your figures assume every mile is paid, and I estimate 40% 50% are paid, so you'll pay 2x 57.5 cents per paid mile.
> You work at a loss, from an IRS 1040C perspective.


Sigh.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> You work at a loss, from an IRS 1040C perspective.


You're right. This loss on paper is an added bonus that further offsets the cost of your vehicle. We like our deductions!


----------



## Linda Gilman (Oct 19, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


I only work four hours a day...usually early morning til' after lunch. I can make $200. The guys here who drive at night and on weekends can make $300+tips. I don't get a lot of tips in the morning.. You gotta work weekend nights if you want to earn money. I met a guy who drives in San Diego and earns $1300 a week. He has an Uber xl.. More money.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> I estimate 40% 50% are paid


You're not an efficient driver. I consider it failure if only 50% is paid miles and aim for 75%.


----------



## Linda Gilman (Oct 19, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> No, it isn't that bad.
> 
> The drivers who say it's bad fall into these categories:
> 
> ...


I have a Prius and unless I work weekend nights, I wouldn't make $500. I started in the beginning of October and I make more money now than I did before the discounts. I think that between the surges and the extras that Uber gives out... It's not so bad. I would like to see how much I would be earning if the prices went back to what they were.


----------



## Linda Gilman (Oct 19, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Actually I'm putting nearly a hundred miles a day running my car into the ground. And only coming up with around $30 in tips


I don't get many tips during the day... People think that the tips are built in... Are they? How??


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Stygge said:


> You're not an efficient driver. I consider it failure if only 50% is paid miles and aim for 75%.


If you drive in hub area, paid miles are better. If you drive in outer areas, less so. I drive in the burbs. I don't know what the precise
paid mile percentage was, I was just guessing. It is what it is.


----------



## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

Linda Gilman said:


> I only work four hours a day...usually early morning til' after lunch. I can make $200. The guys here who drive at night and on weekends can make $300+tips. I don't get a lot of tips in the morning.. You gotta work weekend nights if you want to earn money. I met a guy who drives in San Diego and earns $1300 a week. He has an Uber xl.. More money.


I have no idea what your rates are but *I think it is awful* you make $50/hr, for 4 hrs every morning , *every week* and *don't get* *tips.
*
Once again, an example of Uber's *abuse of drivers* by not having a tip option....

Stay Safe

CC


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Stygge said:


> You're not an efficient driver. I consider it failure if only 50% is paid miles and aim for 75%.


fine , if your paid miles is 75% of total miles driven, then, from an IRS deduction perspective, your cost per paid mile is 1.5x the IRS deduction.
the true cost is another calculation, however.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Linda Gilman said:


> I only work four hours a day...usually early morning til' after lunch. I can make $200. The guys here who drive at night and on weekends can make $300+tips. I don't get a lot of tips in the morning.. You gotta work weekend nights if you want to earn money. I met a guy who drives in San Diego and earns $1300 a week. He has an Uber xl.. More money.





Linda Gilman said:


> I have a Prius and unless I work weekend nights, I wouldn't make $500. I started in the beginning of October and I make more money now than I did before the discounts. I think that between the surges and the extras that Uber gives out... It's not so bad. I would like to see how much I would be earning if the prices went back to what they were.


So you work days or nights? Plus, you're not where the OP is. But your posts are inconsustent.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> fine , if your paid miles is 75% of total miles driven, then, from an IRS deduction perspective, your cost per paid mile is 1.5x the IRS deduction.
> the true cost is another calculation, however.


Correct. My deduction is 1.5x and my cost is about .75x. That's a great deal. But with about $2 per (rider) mile revenue I will unfortunately post a profit and will have to pay self employment tax and income tax.


----------



## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


At .75c/mi , .15/min Wilmington NC would pay an _average_ $7.00/hr with tips. More at peak times
Is your $500/week after all taxes???

Uber self employment tax would be an extra 7% off Uber income the $7.00 would be before taxes...
No workers comp.
No benefits

If you have a health care plan that is fairly good thru the pizza place (worth $13000 tax free for wife and son forget it)

Try the Uber thing on your time off for a few months , try to include some Friday and Saturday nites... see what the result is.... Try to include some mornings 6-10am or whatever.... your gas an maintenance is .30/mi......

Stay Safe

CC


----------



## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

Under meant mr. Category.

4. Drivers who have two jobs and just do this part time or only when I have to or for emergency cash and somehow managed to make 19 bucks an hour.

Keep the pizza shop. Do uber when you feel like it or when you need to. The other poster was right 50 miles a day is a blessing. Last year it was 75 miles a day doing both Pizza food and people.

I'm one of the few whose only bad experiences someone vomiting in my car and of course Uber itself and its customer service or drivers relation bored.

In Chicago it's worth it. It's even more worth it if you manage your own personal money well. Even with a lot of debt I don't mind it

Remember I've only taken two trips in 2 months and I'll have to take my third by the end of next week


----------



## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


Maybe try something else that doesn't involve driving a car for pay?


----------



## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

It's like a comedy reading these non-uber drivers "loving" comments.


----------



## Bigfoot88 (Oct 10, 2015)

Whether or not you should drive sort of depends on your market in my opinion. Some cities turn into ghost towns for drivers (college towns) when the kids leave, which means you're scraping by in fares, or giving back to back rides to drunk, rowdy kids when they're back from break. My suggestion is if you're offered a job with Uber, turn the other direction and run. Actually, don't run- fly. What's the nature of the job here? You pick up strangers and give them rides in your car. You have absolutely no idea whatsover what they have on them, or who they really are. I'd rather not risk my own personal safety for a few bucks, but it really depends on how comfortable you are with the nature of the job. These days, you can never assume anything about anybody any longer, you do so at your own risk.


----------



## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

Seems like you would be trading one low paying job for another. At least at this one, you are full time, so they are required to offer health insurance, or at least they would pay a penalty if not. Eventually, most employers will come around to offering full time staff healthcare.

Or, they are treating you as a 1099, If so, they are pretty despicable.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Stygge said:


> You're right. This loss on paper is an added bonus that further offsets the cost of your vehicle. We like our deductions!


Absolutely. The tax loss is a huge benefit that we'd all lose if we were employees!

Upon re-reading Oscar Levant statement... if he was agreeing this is a good thing, great! I had originally read it as saying that actual costs were based on IRS deduction rates; if that was not correct, my apologies.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

One of the biggest misconceptions continuously perpetrated in this forum is that it costs 55 cents per miles to operate your vehicle. Therefore, anyone who nets less than 55 cents per mile is losing money.

In reality, you need to take your net income, reduce it by 20% or more, then add back in what the IRS gives you to operate your car. They'll give you back 55 cents. In reality, you'll probably spend about 25 cents, depending on the age and value of your car. Gas only accounts for up to 12 cents per mile in the highest cost/lowest MPG assumptions.

That all being said, it's really dumb to buy a new car to Uber in. Get the oldest, cheapest, nicest car you can and drive it until the car is no longer eligible or it's not of good quality any more.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

For a typical driver in a typical market driving a typical car at base fare only and holds a regular job with a typical salary:
- You will file a loss from your ubering.
- You will pay no self employment tax
- You will pay no income tax for your ubering
- Net tax effect will be IRS pays you 4c a mile to drive
- Uber revenue is 32 c per mile after fees and vehicle cost
- Your net take home is 36c per mile after costs and taxes
- 1,000 miles -> $360
-10,000 miles -> $3,600
- 80,000 miles -> $28,800
------------- 80,000 miles ---------------
Vehicle expense already accounted for is $24,000 (gas=$9,600, vehicle purchase+maintenance+repairs=$12,400)
Your "salary" of 28,800 is after tax but does not include benefits such as vacation, 401k, or medical insurance.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Stygge said:


> For a typical driver in a typical market driving a typical car at base fare only and holds a regular job with a typical salary:
> - You will file a loss from your ubering.
> - You will pay no self employment tax
> - You will pay no income tax for your ubering
> ...


I'd say that's fairly accurate.

Base rate is assumed to be around 85 cents/mile, right?

Typical car is assumed to get around 25-30 MPG?

I'm in an 85 cent zone but I also have a 1.60 zone right next to me. I drive a mix of the two and I do *almost* double the projected rate but I have both that double rate zone and a 43 MPG car that requires little to no maintenance. So once accounting for those two changes it would put me right around the rates you have above.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

I just used our rates. $1 per mile + $.14 per minute, 28% uber cut. So at 30mph the total fare is 28% more than the mileage rate. coincidence? Just that uber does not calculate percentage well so we make less than $1 per mile. Ha ha.
The car is a gas guzzler at 12c per mile.
I painted this picture with a broad brush to give an example for people not so familiar with math and accounting. Many drivers will be close to this, some won't.
I am not a typical driver, don't drive a typical car, and don't drive at base fare so my own calculation looks differently.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

ColdRider said:


> Maybe try something else that doesn't involve driving a car for pay?


What would be that "something else". Questions like this always remind me of uber's canned responses .


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Stygge said:


> You're not an efficient driver. I consider it failure if only 50% is paid miles and aim for 75%.


I do not even consider dead miles, as a rule. I do count them in all my figures, but what I am looking for is for dollars per mile as my main metric. I regard it as a good day if I get a pre-expense payout (PEP) of $1.50/mile. I hate it when it's only $1/mile, as it was this morning. From leaving my home to returning to it, I put on 95 miles in 3.5-ish hours to get a PEP of $95-ish. There was no surge to be found. But if I drive an extra 5 miles to get somewhere I know I can catch a 3.5x surge fare, I don't sweat the wasted miles because I almost certainly increased my revenue massively by eating those miles.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

JimS said:


> One of the biggest misconceptions continuously perpetrated in this forum is that it costs 55 cents per miles to operate your vehicle. Therefore, anyone who nets less than 55 cents per mile is losing money.
> 
> In reality, you need to take your net income, reduce it by 20% or more, then add back in what the IRS gives you to operate your car. They'll give you back 55 cents. In reality, you'll probably spend about 25 cents, depending on the age and value of your car. Gas only accounts for up to 12 cents per mile in the highest cost/lowest MPG assumptions.
> 
> That all being said, it's really dumb to buy a new car to Uber in. Get the oldest, cheapest, nicest car you can and drive it until the car is no longer eligible or it's not of good quality any more.


The IRS doesn't "give you" anything to operate your car. It's a deduction, not a credit.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> It's worse than that. Your figures assume every mile is paid, and I estimate 40% 50% are paid, so you'll pay 2x 57.5 cents per paid mile.
> You work at a loss, from an IRS 1040C perspective.


I know that. I was just trying to make it simple to show that there really is no profit to be made at those rates.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

Greguzzi said:


> I do not even consider dead miles, as a rule. I do count them in all my figures, but what I am looking for is for dollars per mile as my main metric. I regard it as a good day if I get a pre-expense payout (PEP) of $1.50/mile. I hate it when it's only $1/mile, as it was this morning. From leaving my home to returning to it, I put on 95 miles in 3.5-ish hours to get a PEP of $95-ish. There was no surge to be found. But if I drive an extra 5 miles to get somewhere I know I can catch a 3.5x surge fare, I don't sweat the wasted miles because I almost certainly increased my revenue massively by eating those miles.


A minimum of $1 per rolling mile is a good rule of thumb and easy to keep track of while driving. I have started to watch the dead miles better to continuously achieve this.


----------



## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> The IRS doesn't "give you" anything to operate your car. It's a deduction, not a credit.


The deduction for the business in the example creates a loss for the business that can be deducted from the other job's income thus lowering the tax liability. The net effect is that they give me money for my miles.


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Stygge said:


> A minimum of $1 per rolling mile is a good rule of thumb and easy to keep track of while driving. I have started to watch the dead miles better to continuously achieve this.


I do the same. Some days, it's $4/mile, but not often enough. These days., I'm happy when it's $1.50 and really happy when it's $2. Uperpool and Lyft Line hit here recently, and the surge is down drastically. I'm not liking it one bit.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

I have delivered pizza in the Houston area since 1998. It's all about the neighborhood. There are areas here where you can't possibly make good money because the folks there don't tip, and areas that are great. Mileage also varies greatly. So I would look into where you're presently working and is there a better place? Contrary to popular opinion, poor people DO NOT tip as well as rich ones. You can also park outside a place once you establish the neighborhood is good, and see how many deliveries the drivers are getting. It's not just about how busy they are, but how many trips EACH driver gets. Some places have too many drivers and they wait too long before deliveries. Others not so much. If it's a residential area there will be less day business and less late night, but the tips in a good area may be a much higher average. Areas with young professionals without families will be busy later. If it's in an area with lots of businesses, there'll be a lunch/early afternoon business. 

Stores always want GOOD drivers, so if you go in and tell the manager you are interested in their store obviously they'll try to sell you on it, but you should be able to get them to show you the delivery area. Talk to the drivers (they rarely want more drivers though) and try to get an idea of the money they're making.

I would NOT quit to do Uber full time as you are at their mercy. If your car has to be repaired or is damaged, you have NO income. You can't Uber in a rental. Also, if you are injured in a wreck you have NO workmen's comp and are screwed. The risks are much higher. 

If you need more money, I would recommend looking for a better delivery position IF that's possible, and if not, Uber on the side. There's no pizza delivery at 5-8am. So that's a time that tends to surge in a lot of areas. Maybe try that. You can sign up and just keep an eye on the app before taking a trip to see what your area does as far as surging. If you work to close at your store you may be in a position to get the bar closing crowd. More risky and annoying, but can be good money at times.

It's not worth it with no surge. Period. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it...and it's why full time doesn't work in most places. Yours may surge all the time. I don't know your area, so can't speak to that.


----------



## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> What would be that "something else". Questions like this always remind me of uber's canned responses .


I don't know... ANYTHING?

Or is the only thing he and you can do for money involve driving a car for pay?


----------



## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

OP: if you are still reading, do this:

Keep your pizza job.
Try driving in your free time for uber/Lyft.
Drive after work when you go home, Friday evenings and both Saturdays and Sundays.
Have at least 200 rides competed. This will take you anywhere from 1 to 2 months.
Remember, the first month Uber will feed you the best trips: it's the Uber Honeymoon!
Your rating will fluctuate a lot.
If you are still enjoying the Uber/Lyft experience, if you still have good ratings and uber is not threatening you with deactivation, consider your options:
1. Keep both jobs, drive whenever you want to supplement your pizza income
2. Quit pizza job completely to become a ride share driver
3. Quit driving and be happy with your pizza job

To each his own! Decide for yourself by experimenting.
Make sure when driving you save equal amount of money you spend on gas for replacement cost of your vehicle. That's my rule of thumb.

Finally, remember that Uber's business model is to make everyone an Uber driver. No barrier to entry. Rates will never go up. Whatever rates you start with, will be your golden times.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


Do you get good ratings from the pizza ?

I would keep the pizza job (10) years and try Uber out on the side.

Shouldn't you be a manager by now ? (10 years )


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Undermensch said:


> Absolutely. The tax loss is a huge benefit that we'd all lose if we were employees!
> 
> Upon re-reading Oscar Levant statement... if he was agreeing this is a good thing, great! I had originally read it as saying that actual costs were based on IRS deduction rates; if that was not correct, my apologies.


Where I wrote "it was worse than that", it should have tipped you off on my feelings about it, eh?


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


assuming the 500.00 is a net number (take home).....Yes it is *NOT* doable....You will however, be made to THINK you are doing better. That is an illusion.....







The Collective does *NOT* take prisoners


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Is it really as bad as it sounds? No, it's worse.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Greguzzi said:


> Do you know what else all these folks have in common? They drive in markets where the mileage rates are $1/mile or more. No one makes worthwhile money in a market like this man's, where his take-home before expenses is $0.54/mile. Nothing but driving nearly non-stop and putting a bazillion miles on your car is going to get you above minimum wage if you start out bringing home just pennies per mile more than your expenses. And even if you think gas is your only expense or that your car runs on unicorn farts and fairy tears and will never wear out or break, your denial of reality might get you to a false wage of $10/hour on your $0.54/mile.


This is someone who knows WTF they are talking about!!!!.....This is Troll Killer Stuff!!!! Anyone who *Thinks* they can earn a decent profit in the sub 1.00 a mile market is fooling themselves!!!!!.....UBER is maximizing shareholder value off of their "Partners" by seeing how low the rates can be driven....They *THINK* we are all stupid!!!They *THINK* they can just burn through a never ending pool of desperate people who don't read forums like this. They *THINK* they are the smartest guys in the room. They are about to *THINK* themselves out of existence!!!! If I seek out a forum of common interests and read that most posts are negative and reflect dissatisfaction I move on and find a better money making idea. I wouldn't toss out Troll food which is likely the intent of this thread...Only desperate companies would do that.....*THINK*


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Where I wrote "it was worse than that", it should have tipped you off on my feelings about it, eh?


Ha ha! The way you wrote it, I might figure out what you meant before you do!


----------



## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

It's worse. Incredibly worse.


----------



## A Morgan (Apr 4, 2016)

itsablackmarket said:


> It's worse. Incredibly worse.*Uber gets rich. You get played.*


Played like a slot machine. Good days to keep you driving and off days where they take your money back.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


Depends on your market - days are not the best with rideshare - early mornings are okay. But, one probably needs to do nights and weekends to clear that same $500 you are getting now.


----------



## uberxtreme (Jan 15, 2015)

I would sign up and and atleast do 500 dollar referral bonus or Lyft 750 dollar referral bonus and after that quit is easy to do if u have spare time and that's a lot of money too but after that just stop doing msg me if u want referral code


----------



## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

I usually make $6.00/hr in the hours you are describing.


----------



## KC41 (Sep 9, 2015)

great driver make great money i'm living proof


----------



## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

KC41 said:


> great driver make great money i'm living proof


NYC ain't no Wilmington, NC....


----------



## Jacknightrider (Apr 15, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


You are a hard worker mate, mad respect goes out to you from Australia!


----------



## Rick N. (Mar 2, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Actually I'm putting nearly a hundred miles a day running my car into the ground. And only coming up with around $30 in tips


Well expect 0 tips from uber cause a hole TK is always cockblocking tips by telling pax not to tip, imagine your boss at the pizza place telling every customer that asks for a delivery not to tip you, you say that pizza place is killing your soul after 10 years, uber will do it in 10 months. Good luck.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Nope, not getting free pizza, half price. Running the numbers, delivering I'm making about $80 a day over the course of about 7 hours. This includes all income: taxed pay, gas reimbursement, and tips. I heard I could do better with uber but you are all scaring the pants off me.


But you get to double toppings .at half price.
Keep a foot in the pizza pond.
Hand out free Uber ride coupons with your code on them with each pizza delivery.


----------



## yoyodyne (Oct 17, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> To make a profit of $500, you will have to drive 25,000 miles with passengers in your car. Does that seem feasible in a week?


I'm game.


----------



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

At least every hour you work you are making money. You can go hours with nothing and sometimes lucky if you break even. Work a few weekends at your pizza job that's when you're busy right? You have the opportunity to make more at your current place. If you wanna take your son to the park on your day off you can with Uber your car might break down and you're still broke!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


POST#1/Dailydriver: "Ahoy!"&Welcome
to the UP.Net/Forums from
Mostly Dark...overnight...Marco Island
on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

Congratulations on your 1st Featured
Thread after......F I V E...D A Y S ? Way
to go, NUberer !

Haberdasher Admires. Bison Inspires!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

kingUber said:


> Listen mate. Been a driver for a year. Never experienced the hey days. I come from a family of self employed people. My father runs a food truck. My brother runs his own laundromat and my mum runs a daycare. Each business has so many expenses but you have to understand the true cost of doing business. I drive in NYC and so the rates are some of the highest. The past year saw me bring in 65k after Ubers Cut. I don't work 7 days, I actually do 6. I work 4 hours in morning 4 hours in night during week and 8 hours from 10am on weekends. I usually take Wednesday's off. I studied my market and have a very good understanding of the patterns. The car obviously received wear and tear, there were maintenance costs but I have seen this same story in all our family businesses. You are a business owner. Manage the business. It is absolutely profitable, you have a depreciating asset just make sure to make it a profitable depreciating assest. Only advise Get something that's good on gas!!


POST # 44/kingUber: Thanks for your
Biggest City perspective.
It IS a Unique Market, however, and less
likely to have it's Rates cut in half, as
has happened to the Newest Cities.

Why should Wilmington stay at $1.20/mi
when Charlotte has been at $.75/mi
since Mid-January ? You KNOW how
badly Travi$ wants to "help Partners
Maximize Earning$" by lowering Rates!

Mentoring Bison: Hyperbole Alert !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Contuber said:


> My best investment since I started to drive for Lyber was to stop driving for 2 weeks and prepare for job interviews. I had several interviews last week and hope to start a real job soon.


POST # 45/Contuber: Pragmatic
Real Worlder ! Optimist!
#Travi$ K. Whatapr♤♡k! has NO USE
for Your Kind of "commodity".

Mentoring Bison: PARODY ALERT !


----------



## GlenGreezy (Sep 21, 2015)

If this isn't a circle jerk of bitterness and sadness.....

Good thing NYC still allows you to make a life even with the lower rates.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

jodie said:


> Holy shiot! !!! STOP UBERING IF YOU ARE SO MISERABLE!!!! WHO STAYS IN SOMETHING THEY HATE?? I've never seen anything like this before. it ain't what it used to be. Ok. Move on then Stop the boo hooing. How can you live a life of misery over UBER???? J IMENY CRICKETS!! GO PUMP GAS. PASS OUT PEANUTS AT THE GAME. DELIVER SHIT. WHATEVER!! If its not working for you STOP DOING IT. No, instead you choose to keep driving people around and cursing everything Signs of insanity. or stupidity. Idk.


POST #:74/jodie: Easy there Delta Gal!
No need for the Hysteria.
I think that a Good Sedative followed
by Bedrest will have you feeling better
on the 'Morrow.

To avoid the Agitatin' Opines o'Other
Exasperatin' Members, just * click * on
the Offender's Avatar and press "Ignore".
This way, in the Future, you'll NOT be
bothered by Quarrelsome Whiners and
Pesky Chronic Malcontents!

Mentoring Bison: Haney for President!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

AintWorthIt said:


> Wow, the defenders are out in full force! Guys, you can spin it however you want, but anything under $1 a mile is a joke and not worth your time or damage to your ride. When I was at higher mileage, base and per minute it was BARELY worth doing (2 years ago). The rates today are around 1970 cab rates, USING YOUR OWN CAR AND FUEL! Don't even get me started on the insurance risks, but it's cute all of you all who are working for pennies have it figured out. Keep driving suckers, Travis loves ya.


POST # 65/AintWorthIt: ....M E M E S...
or it never happened.

Bison Chortling !


----------



## IUberGR (Jan 2, 2016)

Greguzzi said:


> At those rates, you may be able to bring in $500/week in revenue, but you will not make an after-expense profit of $500 in a week, unless you ignore most of your expenses.
> 
> Let's run some very rough numbers to make this simple, using only the mileage rate and the standard IRS deduction for expenses. Yes, the per-minute rate will add a small amount, and yes, some people think the IRS deduction overstates their expenses, but that's an argument for another day. These numbers are just to illustrate what a losing game it is driving at rates less than $1/mile. Think rough numbers. Here they are:
> 
> ...


Who has $.54 a mile in expenses. At $2.00 a gallon I spend about $.06/mile on gas, about $.07/mile on depreciation, and a few more cents for maintenance and repairs. Guess you must be really bad at it.


----------



## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

GlenGreezy said:


> If this isn't a circle jerk of bitterness and sadness.....
> 
> Good thing NYC still allows you to make a life even with the lower rates.


Read first part then checked location. Yup, NYC. Funny how those who are in fortunate circumstances will mock at those who aren't, as if to discredit the validity of the reality we are facing. Calling us circle jerkers.. How about true witnesses? Just because you're the fortunate minority experiencing something better, doesn't mean you are entitled to spit on those who aren't.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Even worse then the worst. Websters has yet to come up with a word that best fits uber. So right now we have to settle for worst of the worst.


Kalee said:


> Is it really as bad as it sounds, you ask?
> Yes and probably even a little worse.
> Keep that pizza job, my friend.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Undermensch said:


> No, it isn't that bad.
> 
> The drivers who say it's bad fall into these categories:
> 
> ...


 Rates were crazy high? Now they used to be normal, and still below what taxis charged. This must be either Bart or Glados' relative(s).


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> Rates were crazy high? Now they used to be normal, and still below what taxis charged. This must be either Bart or Glados' relative(s).


Guess you're one of those bitter ones, huh?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

itsablackmarket said:


> Read first part then checked location. Yup, NYC. Funny how those who are in fortunate circumstances will mock at those who aren't, as if to discredit the validity of the reality we are facing. Calling us circle jerkers.. How about true witnesses? Just because you're the fortunate minority experiencing something better, doesn't mean you are entitled to spit on those who aren't.


POST # 143/itsablackmarket: Could it
be an Ugly
Display of...shudder...what was recently
coined as "New York Values"?


----------



## CorollaS (Apr 10, 2016)

OP, I've been delivering pizza for 16 years and I too am thinking of Ubering. 
A couple things, if you're not in an area with a lot of industry you're working
the WRONG shift! Days are almost always the worst shift in this business.

I'm a closer and what my company calls a "crew chief" (simply put, the drivers boss)
I made $114 in tips and fuel reimbursement last night plus my hourly for an 8 hour shift.
If you want to maximize your pizza income and try Uber, switch to a rush driver. Hourly,
rush drivers always make the most money, usually 5 pm to 8 or 9 pm. My rush drivers consistently
make $20 an hour. Know your area, I mean REALLY know your area, shortest route at any time of day.
Learn what goes together, doubles and triples are only good if they are in route together. Taking two runs
on the opposite side of town screws you and the other drivers. Look at the map and create imaginary "sectors"
where runs in those sectors go together.

Someone said to hand out Uber/Lyft referrals to your deliveries, if you work corporate, Papa's, Pizza Hut, Dominos'
DO NOT do that, you'll get your butt fired if corporate finds out. Geez, there's so much I could say but, I don't want
to make a 20 paragraph post. There's some good advice in this thread and even those who're negative have some good input.

The other pizza dude had a good post back a few pages. I'll add more to the thread later but I agree with those who said
keep the pizza gig while you get your feet wet with rideshare. Best of luck fellow "pizza man"!!!!!!!!


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

Just be sure to keep some operating capital in the bank if you go full time ride share driving. If you have a wreck on the Uber platform it's $1,000 deductible, and you will be off the road for a week or two. You need to prepare for that - on Lyft it was (maybe still is) a $2,500 deductible. And if you car breaks, well, you will need to fix it... If there is no money to put in the bank the next best thing to do is to have a $5,000 credit limit on a zero balance card in case you need some repairs. Also be prepared to be blindsided on rate reductions - the drivers in my area were not ready for the drop from $1.00 a mile to .65 cents. Kind of messed up their income projections. uBer is constantly changing, constantly evolving. It is very difficult to justify a fixed cost investment for such a flexible rate gig. Try it part time first, if at all. I tend to lean toward the "if at all."


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

You can't make any money if your rate is circa 75cents a mile. Math proves this. Not sure how anyone can debate that they can


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> You can't make any money if your rate is circa 75cents a mile. Math proves this. Not sure how anyone can debate that they can


Sigh. Another one of these.

75 cents isn't great but you can make money. If it surges you can make a lot of money.

Drive an 8 or 9 year old Prius and manage your expenses (shouldn't have any other than tires and gas).

I do about half my driving in an 85 cent zone. It's not terrible.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


On the bright side, you're not using your car to bake the pizza and your money to buy the ingredients are you? The reason it seems like you're making less now is because you are. It's called wage stagnation and it has affected everyone who hasn't been getting yearly raises that reflect the rise in the cost of living. This is why teachers and govt employees.... have unions, those unions fight for their wages to rise as the cost of living increases. Because of rising prices for basic living expenses that you don't get a raise to compensate for, you're effectively making less money every year.

This has been happening to the AMerican worker since the 70's and it's finally starting to be noticed by people because their kids can't get decent jobs and they are having to drive uber after retiring just to make rent.

It is also why you'd be a damn fool to vote for anyone but SANDERS for PRESIDENT


----------



## Baby Cakes (Sep 6, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


miles are going to be about triple. many more dead miles


----------



## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

DriverX said:


> On the bright side, you're not using your car to bake the pizza and your money to buy the ingredients are you? The reason it seems like you're making less now is because you are. It's called wage stagnation and it has affected everyone who hasn't been getting yearly raises that reflect the rise in the cost of living. This is why teachers and govt employees.... have unions, those unions fight for their wages to rise as the cost of living increases. Because of rising prices for basic living expenses that you don't get a raise to compensate for, you're effectively making less money every year.
> 
> This has been happening to the AMerican worker since the 70's and it's finally starting to be noticed by people because their kids can't get decent jobs and they are having to drive uber after retiring just to make rent.
> 
> It is also why you'd be a damn fool to vote for anyone but SANDERS for PRESIDENT


Reminds me of the pro-Uber arguments. Taxi's are horrible blah blah blah, allow Uber in our city! Then they exploited everyone.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


Anything is possible. Are you willing to work during the peak times when you can do many rides without dead-time and dead-miles? Those hours can be 5AM-9AM and 10P-3AM. Are you accounting for the worker's comp protection, over-time protection, social security contribution (7.5% made by your pizza-employer on your behalf)? Can you cobble together 80 hours/wk to drive in order to generate $500-$600 of earnings (before expenses)?


Stygge said:


> The deduction for the business in the example creates a loss for the business that can be deducted from the other job's income thus lowering the tax liability. The net effect is that they give me money for my miles.


That's assuming that there IS any other income to deduct it from. We know that's not the case for many, if not most drivers (who are turning to Uber because they don't have any other income). You don't get a tax return on excess losses - you can only carry the loss over to the next year.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> You can't make any money if your rate is circa 75cents a mile. Math proves this. Not sure how anyone can debate that they can


No - YOU can't make any money if your rate is "circa 75cents a mile".
What I do - or someone else can do, is apparently beyond your comprehension.
In my opinion - and it's just that: an opinion - what "we" can't do (driving UberX) is make ENOUGH money to justify the financial cost and the time investment required.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

CorollaS said:


> OP, I've been delivering pizza for 16 years and I too am thinking of Ubering.
> A couple things, if you're not in an area with a lot of industry you're working
> the WRONG shift! Days are almost always the worst shift in this business.
> 
> ...


POST # 148/CorollaS: Given your 6th
Day here is Today,
consider utilizing the "Conversation"
Function to follow-up on Ideas expressed
In-Thread with a Confidential Mode that
would be "Off Topic" to continue in a
Public Thread. Click on Recipient's Ava-
tar, then click on "Start a Conversation".

Mentoring Bison: E-Z P-Z !


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

GlenGreezy said:


> If this isn't a circle jerk of bitterness and sadness.....
> 
> Good thing NYC still allows you to make a life even with the lower rates.


Yes yes....the rates in that town still allow for profit and this is a good thing for you and your fellow drivers. I'm sure you know that the cost of living in NYC is double what it is in most other markets. Please believe me that I know this....Spent 40 years of my life there (Astoria)


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No - YOU can't make any money if your rate is "circa 75cents a mile".
> What I do - or someone else can do, is apparently beyond your comprehension.
> In my opinion - and it's just that: an opinion - what "we" can't do (driving UberX) is make ENOUGH money to justify the financial cost and the time investment required.


You must have been a Wharton grad....."Enough" is always the qualifier....What isnt enough for me might be plenty to a guy who lives in a refrigerator box and eats eggcorns... What is the point here?


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No - YOU can't make any money if your rate is "circa 75cents a mile".
> What I do - or someone else can do, is apparently beyond your comprehension.
> In my opinion - and it's just that: an opinion - what "we" can't do (driving UberX) is make ENOUGH money to justify the financial cost and the time investment required.


Uber loves your type, smh
Anybody who thinks they can make money at circa 75cents/mile is totally disregarding time, wear n tear and most importantly MILES


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> No, it isn't that bad.
> 
> The drivers who say it's bad fall into these categories:
> 
> ...




Crazy high? $2.25 per mile is the rate where you can maintain your vehicle and make a living. a cab driver would net about $45,000-50,000 a year and a livery driver using a personal vehicle would be around $55,000-60,000 a year.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Greguzzi said:


> At those rates, you may be able to bring in $500/week in revenue, but you will not make an after-expense profit of $500 in a week, unless you ignore most of your expenses.
> 
> Let's run some very rough numbers to make this simple, using only the mileage rate and the standard IRS deduction for expenses. Yes, the per-minute rate will add a small amount, and yes, some people think the IRS deduction overstates their expenses, but that's an argument for another day. These numbers are just to illustrate what a losing game it is driving at rates less than $1/mile. Think rough numbers. Here they are:
> 
> ...


You do realize that use the same b*** s*** formula and numbers for everything you own, if you buy a shirt for $40 did that shirt really cost only $40, don't forget you have to wash it, you have to buy the soap to clean it, you have to buy the bleach the fabric softener the electric to run the washer and dryer, if you own the $40 shirt for a year and wear it often and keep it nice and clean you will go broke..


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Crazy high? $2.25 per mile is the rate where you can maintain your vehicle and make a living. a cab driver would net about $45,000-50,000 a year and a livery driver using a personal vehicle would be around $55,000-60,000 a year.


Ironic isn't it when I first started driving taxi the fare was a $1.90 a mile plus the $1.90 drop fee and yes that was my car many of the GD passengers back then did nothing but complain about the fair being too high and now you think you're going to get to $2.25 a mile keep dreaming


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> Ironic isn't it when I first started driving taxi the fare was a $1.90 a mile plus the $1.90 drop fee and yes that was my car many of the GD passengers back then did nothing but complain about the fair being too high and now you think you're going to get to $2.25 a mile keep dreaming


We've been $2.50 for the last 6 years, and $2.00 for the previous 9 years. Our wait charge has always been $60 an hour. It's a reality, not a dream. I've been in this business long before Uber was even a thought.


----------



## LishaloveUBER2 (Apr 18, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


There are negative people every where you go, but I can truly say I enjoy driving for UBER the pay is OK. Rush hour, morning and evening is good. Park close to hotels, at before 11 people are heading to the airports or checking out. Alsov places like resorts, or fun parks also is a good place to be. My experience hasn't been bad, my ideal job because I love meeting new people, and I'm crazy about driving so this is great for me. But it's not a job for everyone, some people are just mean and rude. Those are the ones complaining the most because, so take it from me it's woth the try. If you don't like it, just stop.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

LishaloveUBER2 said:


> There are negative people every where you go, but I can truly say I enjoy driving for UBER the pay is OK. Rush hour, morning and evening is good. Park close to hotels, at before 11 people are heading to the airports or checking out. Alsov places like resorts, or fun parks also is a good place to be. My experience hasn't been bad, my ideal job because I love meeting new people, and I'm crazy about driving so this is great for me. But it's not a job for everyone, some people are just mean and rude. Those are the ones complaining the most because, so take it from me it's woth the try. If you don't like it, just stop.


I don't like it...I choose to fight!!!! That ok?


----------



## LishaloveUBER2 (Apr 18, 2016)

Whatever you feel is OK. Everyone has there own perception.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

CorollaS said:


> OP, I've been delivering pizza for 16 years and I too am thinking of Ubering.
> A couple things, if you're not in an area with a lot of industry you're working
> the WRONG shift! Days are almost always the worst shift in this business.
> 
> ...


Am I the other "pizza dude"? Because FYI I'm not a dude...lol


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> You must have been a Wharton grad....."Enough" is always the qualifier....What isnt enough for me might be plenty to a guy who lives in a refrigerator box and eats eggcorns... What is the point here?


What the heck are eggcorns? Some weird local delicacy?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Uber loves your type, smh
> Anybody who thinks they can make money at circa 75cents/mile is totally disregarding time, wear n tear and most importantly MILES


once more the genius who knows everyone's situation is heard preaching how only he knows what's good or worthwhile for everyone else. Those with low costs - who know their actual costs (as I do) - are profitable on a weekly basis, and make out with a needed tax deduction at year's end, snicker at your self-assuredness.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What the heck are eggcorns? Some weird local delicacy?


They are the curds which form when an empty Egg Cream Soda glass is left unwashed for a few days.


----------



## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

It really depends on how many other life options you have. 

Keep in mind that "ridesharing driver" is the most dead-end job of all dead-end jobs. Put that on your resume and get... no other job in the world.. with it. Unless you honestly believe you're going to be giving people rides in your car for the next 40 years you should think of literally anything else. 

At least you may get a raise or a promotion at your pizza store. Ridesharing rates will only decrease and decrease.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What the heck are eggcorns? Some weird local delicacy?


Fuzz..... 1) Get to high ground man....(I know it's getting serious down there) 2) Eggcorns; imagine if you will a delicious cob of fresh midwest corn....sweet, juicy and altogether quite yummy....You bite in ....and once you get past the slight crunch of the kernels....a warm sunny egg yolk. You bet it's a delicacy my boy!!!!


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

LOL. OP hasn't been here since page 2.

Anyway, most of y'all forgot he's XL. Though he's probably going to get sucky X rates, too, XL ain't so bad:










$4.32 minimum net, anyway.

Best suggestion is to sign up, go out, try it out. Good luck!


----------



## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

Kalee said:


> But i would rather deliver pizza rather than customers that are vomiting in my car.


 Not to mention pizza smells so much better


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> once more the genius who knows everyone's situation is heard preaching how only he knows what's good or worthwhile for everyone else. Those with low costs - who know their actual costs (as I do) - are profitable on a weekly basis, and make out with a needed tax deduction at year's end, snicker at your self-assuredness.


Like I said, Uber loves your type just like they fell in love with Detroit drivers who thought if they just drive slow for the per min rate they can profit, smh. Detroit uberers are doing 27mph on the highway


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> You want facts? I know what I used to be able to make and what I can make now. That's all the effing facts I need, got it?


Guess you did well when there was no competition, huh? I don't feel sorry for you.


----------



## Firstime (Apr 2, 2016)

If and when I decide to quit,I will quietly leave the forum and there won't be another post from me. Why only hang around and emit your negative energy,all to make a point? Let people be!!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Like I said, Uber loves your type just like they fell in love with Detroit drivers who thought if they just drive slow for the per min rate they can profit, smh. Detroit uberers are doing 27mph on the highway


yeah... because YOU know: what Uber likes, what other people think and how other people work their finances.
Like I said - you're a genius - god's gift to us all.


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Undermensch said:


> Guess you did well when there was no competition, huh? I don't feel sorry for you.


I did well when rates were acceptable smart guy.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> Fuzz..... 1) Get to high ground man .... You bet it's a delicacy my boy!!!!


close - but he's a she.


----------



## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

Firstime said:


> If and when I decide to quit,I will quietly leave the forum and there won't be another post from me. Why only hang around and emit your negative energy,all to make a point? Let people be!!


Can you let us know what the day that is so we could celebrate.... just joking but seriously?


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> yeah... because YOU know: what Uber likes, what other people think and how other people work their finances.
> Like I said - you're a genius - god's gift to us all.


No actually it just takes common sense coupled with knowing common businesss sense. You and others claiming they can make money at the ridicoulously low rates means Uber will never raise rates. Congrats for being on the wrong team, smh. People may dislike me on here, mainly because i throw truth in their faces, but will still agree with me on this: Uber loves people like you who try to find mythical ways to make money at low rates. If all drivers thought like me and refused to drive for anything near $1/mile they would be forced to raise rates: FACT


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> No actually it just takes common sense coupled with knowing common businesss sense. You and others claiming they can make money at the ridicoulously low rates means Uber will never raise rates. Congrats for being on the wrong team, smh. People may dislike me on here, mainly because i throw truth in their faces, but will still agree with me on this: Uber loves people like you who try to find mythical ways to make money at low rates. If all drivers thought like me and refused to drive for anything near $1/mile they would be forced to raise rates: FACT


Sigh.

Control your emotions, don't let them control you.

Here are your facts: https://uberpeople.net/threads/2015-q4-and-2016-q1-pay-full-disclosure.66689/

Go check my spreadsheets and list and specific errors you see in the computations without emotion.

In my case I make about as much per mile and per hour as I did before the last rate cuts.

I do not claim that that applies to every driver in every area. Your results may vary.

However, you are pretty unbelievable when your posts are just emotions instead of posting any comparative before/after info for your case. Granted, you're opening up yourself to some ridicule and having to own your own mistakes if people point them out in your data. Try not to get emotional when that happens.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> close - but he's a she.


Elvis is a she???


----------



## dpv (Oct 12, 2015)

I make more at my really job working overtime for a couple of hours then a night of driving for Uber.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Undermensch said:


> Sigh.
> 
> In my case I make about as much per mile and per hour as I did before the last rate cuts.


Sad.
If you say this then you believe Uber's slogan "lower rates equals higher earnings per hour", smh. Which totally disregards that you are working more, driving more, putting in more hours and of course more miles and wear and tear just to make the same wage.

You are Definitely the type of person that Uber loves


----------



## Macdiggity (Feb 7, 2016)

Keep that pizza job! I've worked at pizza places for the last 10 years....even the day shift is more profitable. You aren't putting 150+ miles on your car each day. Even if you made the equivalent paycheck (which you def won't), right now you aren't paying as much for maintenece. You'll be driving 500 miles a week for a $500 paycheck, and that's with no dead miles which is impossible. I make more money on night shift delivery than I do all day deiving lyft and uber.


----------



## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Bart McCoy said:


> Sad.
> If you say this then you believe Uber's slogan "lower rates equals higher earnings per hour", smh. Which totally disregards that you are working more, driving more, putting in more hours and of course more miles and wear and tear just to make the same wage.
> 
> You are Definitely the type of person that Uber loves


I think the big problem with most people working for Uber/Lyft is that the expenses -- other than gas -- are somewhat hidden to them.

-You can't really SEE or experience the depreciation of your vehicle because it happens over months and years (unless you're in a wreck or somebody puts a big gash in your seat or something).
-You can convince yourself that you "would have cleaned your car anyway."
-You can't really prove that your transmission would have lasted 5 extra years if you hadn't been driving for Uber.
-The increased likelihood of tickets, accidents, injury and death are not apparent unless they actually happen to you.
-The risk you're taking with the shady liability insurance position of Uber drivers in most states.

In short, most Uber drivers aren't accountants or underwriters. The only real expense they can fathom is gas.

But all these increased risks and hidden costs could be figured out by experienced insurance underwriters. I'd be interested to see how much of a per-mile hit they, on average, would give to one's bottom line.


----------



## jodie (Mar 25, 2016)

^^^^^well said^^^^^


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> Elvis is a she???


Fuzzy and Elvis were two of my dogs. Never thought about it sounding male.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Flarpy said:


> I think the big problem with most people working for Uber/Lyft is that the expenses -- other than gas -- are somewhat hidden to them.
> 
> -You can't really SEE or experience the depreciation of your vehicle because it happens over months and years (unless you're in a wreck or somebody puts a big gash in your seat or something).
> -You can convince yourself that you "would have cleaned your car anyway."
> ...


Exactly. The risk is what no one sees until it's too late.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Sad.
> If you say this then you believe Uber's slogan "lower rates equals higher earnings per hour", smh. Which totally disregards that you are working more, driving more, putting in more hours and of course more miles and wear and tear just to make the same wage.
> 
> You are Definitely the type of person that Uber loves


Nothing to believe or argue about. Go look at the spreadsheets. Your earnings may vary.


----------



## Heraldo (Aug 1, 2015)

Uber is so hard up for driver's right now they put a link in the rider app to become a partner.


----------



## insertgenericusername (Apr 8, 2016)

It depends upon what hours you work. If you don't shape your driving schedule around the busy hours in your region and instead just drive when you want to, you won't make _nearly_ as much money. You have to be smart about it.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

insertgenericusername said:


> It depends upon what hours you work. If you don't shape your driving schedule around the busy hours in your region and instead just drive when you want to, you won't make _nearly_ as much money. You have to be smart about it.


Yup. Riders ask me all the time if we can go online whenever we want. I say "sure, you can go online whenever you want, like Tuesday at 1 PM, but that doesn't mean there will be rides". Gets a good laugh. In NYC I'm sure you can get rides at any hour but there is so much competition that you probably don't get them back to back.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Fuzzy and Elvis were two of my dogs. Never thought about it sounding male.


You have my apologies....Sometimes it's hard to refer to fellow forumites based on their forum names....How is H town this morning??...Saw the stuff from the news, looks bad.


----------



## thinkaboutexpenses (Apr 19, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


I had to make an account to respond to your post.

Uberx is an absolute disaster in Jacksonville. Drivers cannot make money at these rates when one considers the mileage, fuel costs, maintenance, oil changes, etc. 
imagine driving and experiencing one mechanical issue costing $800. That's two weeks worth of pay, for which you probably had to work for around 55-70 hours MINIMUM.

Think of uber like an advance pay day loan. You'll make a couple Thousand in a month after slaving for at least 250 hours of said month. But when you consider the expenses, you realize this system is a complete travesty for the deluded drivers who think they can make money.

I made 563.09 last week after working around 70 hours and spending 130 in gas and putting a thousand plus miles on my car.

Unless they raise the rates, I will not be driving for them again


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Yet, Jax has hundreds of active drivers. Why?


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

thinkaboutexpenses said:


> I had to make an account to respond to your post.
> 
> Uberx is an absolute disaster in Jacksonville. Drivers cannot make money at these rates when one considers the mileage, fuel costs, maintenance, oil changes, etc.
> imagine driving and experiencing one mechanical issue costing $800. That's two weeks worth of pay, for which you probably had to work for around 55-70 hours MINIMUM.
> ...


You might not be cut out for running your own business.

Cash flow and income are not the same thing. In your $800 repair example you are lamenting the ability to "make money" (income) when you have a $800 cash outlay (cash flow). The ability to make money (income) is not necessarily related to the cash flow pattern that you will have.

On an income basis the $800 repair is amortized over the expected miles and hours between that repair and the next similarly expensive repair. For my car that's currently 1 repair in almost 100k miles at $650 or so. That's 0.6 cents/mile. Negligible to my income but very real to the cash flowing out of my wallet.

If you're going to drive UberX you must have a very reliable, very low cost car. You cannot do it with a repair prone car that even aggressively sips gasoline.

You also need to look at the hours you are driving and determine which are least profitable to you and consider eliminating them or shifting them to hours that have been more profitable. You might find some options, you might not.

Jacksonville is at a pretty tight rate, but I'll bet you can make more money if you maximize surge driving and lower your costs.


----------



## GlenGreezy (Sep 21, 2015)

itsablackmarket said:


> Read first part then checked location. Yup, NYC. Funny how those who are in fortunate circumstances will mock at those who aren't, as if to discredit the validity of the reality we are facing. Calling us circle jerkers.. How about true witnesses? Just because you're the fortunate minority experiencing something better, doesn't mean you are entitled to spit on those who aren't.


Nobody is forcing you to do anything. 
:-/


----------



## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

GlenGreezy said:


> Nobody is forcing you to do anything.
> :-/


What an original argument.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> Go check my spreadsheets and list and specific errors you see in the computations without emotion.


Your reported expenses are absurdly low. For 2016, you report driving 5105 miles with $280 in "variable costs", $142 in depreciation, $121 in tolls. That's 8.3 cents per mile excluding tolls, or 10.6 cents per mile including tolls.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> Your reported expenses are absurdly low. For 2016, you report driving 5105 miles with $280 in "variable costs", $142 in depreciation, $121 in tolls. That's 8.3 cents per mile excluding tolls, or 10.6 cents per mile including tolls.


Yeah? What's wrong with them? Something specific.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> You might not be cut out for running your own business.
> 
> Cash flow and income are not the same thing. In your $800 repair example you are lamenting the ability to "make money" (income) when you have a $800 cash outlay (cash flow). The ability to make money (income) is not necessarily related to the cash flow pattern that you will have.


You might not be cut out for running your own business either. Most businessmen define "making money" as profit, not income. For example, $1000 in income isn't "making money" if your expenses are $2000.


----------



## A Morgan (Apr 4, 2016)

Realityshark said:


> Is it really as bad as it sounds? No, it's worse.


I just got an UBER punch in the gut. Got the promotion email. Looked at the LA Map. Drove out of my area to LA when I did not feel good. Picked up dangerous rides I should have driven away from to make sure I got all the necessary ride numbers. Drove an extra number of rides so that there could be no issues about my qualified numbers. Took a ratings hit for driving obviously bad people and while not feeling 100%. Received nothing extra and was told I did not qualify for the promotion. Started Googling and found that LA Core is much different from LA. What a sucker I am for falling for that trick . My stomach hurts from that gut punch. Sorry brothers for my interference with your surge rates.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> Yeah? What's wrong with them? Something specific.


Fuel: $2/gal / 40mpg = 5 cents/mi

Mileage depreciation (enter your car's specs on kbb.com, then add 10k miles and compare the price):
Newer car: $1000/10k miles = 10 cents/mi
Older car: $500/10k miles = 5 cents/mi

Maintenence and repairs (brakes, oil changes, new drivetrain after 200k miles, misc. repairs, tires, shocks, etc.):
Newer car: 5 cents/mi
Older car: 10 cents/mi

That's an absolute minimum of 20 cents per mile, excluding insurance and age-based depreciation, and assuming that (a) you have one of the most inexpensive and fuel-efficient cars on the road and (b) you never have any significant collision-related expenses.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> Fuel: $2/gal / 40mpg = 5 cents/mi
> 
> Mileage depreciation (enter your car's specs on kbb.com, then add 10k miles and compare the price):
> Newer car: $1000/10k miles = 10 cents/mi
> ...


Ok. As I suspected. You didn't look at the depreciation worksheet or variable costs worksheet at all.

It's all there.

Your claim of a minimum of 20 cents in the best case is silly. 100k miles. I've had one rodent-related repair, no shocks, pads on brakes nothing more, and no body damage. Yes, the car is efficient. It's also old. 8 years old. Check the depreciation worksheet.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> It's all there.


What are the make and model? Also trim level and any other options required to value the car.


----------



## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

depreciation of your car works like this with uber. 
instead of one set of tires every 4 years, youll need one set every year.
instead of $500 a year in repair youll need $2000
you will be using your car 4 times more, thus killing it 4 times faster.

so you paid $10k for your car, with uber it will be worth $500 in 5 years, vs $5k it would have been if you did not uber.
xtra uber loss in value $1000 a year. You will uber 40k miles extra than you would of without uber, per year. 

you will need to buy 2000 gallons of gas a year vs maybe 500 if you did not uber.

so $500+2000+1000+3000 extra cost per year to uber drive. $6500

Its at least .17 cents a mile extra expense to uber drive. AT LEAST!
uber Real expense if 12 cents per mile for gas plus 17 cents for uber related. 
29 cents is my conclusion to drive for uberx
uber x pays about 70 cents a mile after they take their MONEY that they (uber) earned for YOU driving your own car.
40 cents a mile profit driving uber. Which matches my 3 month average from driving uber.
Want to Earn $100 a day? You will need to drive 220 miles a day on average. at aveage speed 30 mph, youll work 8hrs with pax in car and 4 hrs trying to get a ping or going to pick up PAX. Total time per day to earn $100 = 12 hrs a day
At a real job that is 12 hrs plus 2 xtra hrs because of OT. 
You can get a job making $7.14 an hour and do the same as uberx, but you wont be KILLING your car to earn that $7 hour.
Of course no need to tip your driver. uber on.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

GILD said:


> depreciation of your car works like this with uber.
> instead of one set of tires every 4 years, youll need one set every year.
> instead of $500 a year in repair youll need $2000
> you will be using your car 4 times more, thus killing it 4 times faster.
> ...


The disappointing part of posts like this is that there CLEARLY are critical thinking skills available to the commenter, but none are getting used well.

Only cars that have been totaled are worth $500 after a couple years. I got $2000 for salvaging my jeep liberty with a dead engine 7 years ago. I just got $1800 for trading my 08 Sedona with 120k miles and a leaking radiator. I could have got more than twice that in a private sale but the deal on my new van was for $3k under book with no hassle of listing it and selling it.

If you buy a new car at $20k, and get 150k-200k out of it before scrapping for $2k, you've spent $0.09- $0.12/mile in depreciation. Get the same miles out of a $15k car and you're looking at $0.075-$0.10/mile.

I've NEVER spent $500/year on repairs before rideshare. And the only repair I had last year was brakes and rotors all around which totaled $450. But I bought that van used and put a good 10k out of the 45k miles on it for personal use not related to business.

The sad part is, with all your math being wrong you come pretty close to my actual total expenses and I calculate EVERYTHING, including amortizing costs that are shared between business and personal use.

But then you go off track again when talking about rates. Miles are not the only pay you receive. And in most markets miles aren't even the most important factor. I'm at $2 - $1.22 - $0.18 and take in $300 deposits (before vehicle expenses or taxes) or more for 12 hour days. Assuming rate cuts didn't bring extra business, my rates would have to be $0.66 - $0.40 - $0.06 in order for me to earn only $100 in 12 hours. You hit close to the mark on miles driven, though. I do about 200 miles on my 12 hour days.

Not many jobs pay OT for a certain number of hours worked in a day, usually it is just the over 40/week.

Don't get me wrong, rates should be higher especially on Uber, but don't do such a great job of using your brain in half your analysis then get lazy on the other half. And always bear in mind that not everyone's experience will be the same.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> What are the make and model? Also trim level and any other options required to value the car.


2008 Toyota Prius. Zip code 08857 for valuations.

It was top of the line for this market at the time. Edmunds and KBB list that differently, if I recall correctly. They might list 5 or 7 packages. Either way it should be package 5. JBL audio, satellite nav, leather, HID headlights, VSC. I think that covers the big ones.

In the depreciation worksheet you can check the valuations that I captured from KBB or Edmunds. They are all listed.

Note that my depreciation per mile is based on my expectation of driving this car until 2018, putting an extra 50k miles on it from what it has today. I'm currently adding miles at a rate higher than that but I don't expect to drive as much, on a continual basis, for 2 solid years.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

GILD said:


> depreciation of your car works like this with uber.
> instead of one set of tires every 4 years, youll need one set every year.
> instead of $500 a year in repair youll need $2000
> you will be using your car 4 times more, thus killing it 4 times faster.
> ...


BostonBarry did a good job of tearing this apart.

But I'd like to add that it didn't help your argument to open with a comment of how depreciation works then have the first two examples (tire and repair costs) have nothing to do with depreciation.

Buying tires and paying for repairs are not a part of depreciation.

I'm not splitting hairs on the definition of words here either: depreciation is difficult for many people to understand, but you must understand it if you want to know how it impacts your business. You can't half understand it and know how it impacts your business.

Furthermore, depreciation has a meaning and set of rules for tax purposes in offsetting revenue and it has a slightly different meaning and set of rules for determining if you are making money (income purposes).

I'm not calling you dumb in not getting this right. I misunderstood it for years before I finally figured out how it works.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

you can't make money at circa 75cents/mile, no way!


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

He has a fancy spreadsheet, he has it all figured out lol


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> you can't make money at circa 75cents/mile, no way!


Maybe you can't.

Sunday I worked exclusively in the $0.85/mile zone in NJ. I made $21/hour and 62 cents/mile after variable costs (gas, shocks, tires, and oil) and tolls. That's $141 for 6:45 of work.

There was surge in that but I didn't try to drive the surge exclusively, I just took it when I got it.

It's more difficult if there is no surge. But you can still do well if you get primarily long and high-speed highway drives.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> He has a fancy spreadsheet, he has it all figured out lol


What, is this middle school?


----------



## notabadguythe (Feb 6, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a orporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


 okay, 500 a week pizza, now with Uber you will need to work 14 HR days X 7 days, and a lot of risks including driving, internal and external damage to your car, we use to make something, not anymore!


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

notabadguythe said:


> okay, 500 a week pizza, now with Uber you will need to work 14 HR days X 7 days, and a lot of risks including driving, internal and external damage to your car, we use to make something, not anymore!


Apparently this thread has become too lengthy to read even one page of comments.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> it didn't help your argument to open with a comment of how depreciation works then have the first two examples (tire and repair costs) have nothing to do with depreciation.


It doesn't help your arguments that you start many of your posts with meaningless bullshit:


Undermensch said:


> You might not be cut out for running your own business.
> Sigh...
> OMGryouatrollorwhat?
> Sigh.
> ...


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> Your reported expenses are absurdly low. For 2016, you report driving 5105 miles with $280 in "variable costs", $142 in depreciation, $121 in tolls. That's 8.3 cents per mile excluding tolls, or 10.6 cents per mile including tolls.


Regarding tolls. Why on earth would I under-report tolls? I don't have the spreadsheet to convince you guys that I'm making money. I have the spreadsheet to use for tax purposes at the end of the year, primarily, with the added benefit of knowing how much money I'm making.

But let's do this: Pick a date in the sheet with some tolls. Note down the dollar total on that date for tolls in a comment (so you can't claim I changed it later). I'll then grab screenshots of the tolls on that date to show you it's legit.

Now, why my tolls are low is rather easy to explain: I can't pickup rides in New York City (lots of which go out of the city) and I only occasionally get rides into the city. I have the NJ Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway near me but most rides go over 50 MPH divided non-toll roads instead of on the NJTP or GSP. Thus, tolls are low. My primary rides with tolls are either to the airport or the city and I usually get no more than one of those a day and most days I get neither of them.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> If you're going to drive UberX you must have a very reliable, very low cost car.


Only because the rates are so low. At higher rates, more typical cars would be profitable.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> Why on earth would I under-report tolls? ...


Why do you keep trolling? I didn't say anything about underreporting tolls.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> Why do you keep trolling? I didn't say anything about underreporting tolls.


I'm not trolling you. You said my expenses were under-reported and I'm willing to prove to you that they are not.

You've invested very little time into showing us what your expenses are, while I've invested quite a bit of time in knowing what my expenses are. I'm bending over backwards to let you prove to yourself that they are legit. Sorry if they don't line up with your view of the world.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> It doesn't help your arguments that you start many of your posts with meaningless bullshit:


Got it. Ignore.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> You've invested very little time into showing us what your expenses are


This topic isn't about you or me; it's about typical drivers with typical cars. Not everybody has a car that never needs gas or repairs and keeps its value forever.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

A Prius is about as typical an UberX car as they come. lol

I drive a 2006 Saturn Ion 3 with leather and people marvel that it looks new. Never any complaints about my ride. I do spend about twice as much gas - so it's around $0.08/mi. Rest of the operating costs are about the same as Undermensch.

I know some retired folks who drive 2015 Escalades at XL rates. Don't get it, but they do it as entertainment.


----------



## Dailydriver (Apr 12, 2016)

OP checking in. I was still reading everybody's replies but didn't have any experience to comment on.

Yeah, all the negativity is well founded: Day shifts in my town won't work out. 
My first day out I made $51 in 6 hours online. I accepted every trip that popped up for a total of 10 rides. Some of those trips I had to drive 15 minutes before picking up a rider for a 5 minute trip. After deducting for gas and income taxes, I was netting about $4 an hour. Most surges only getting up to 1.2 to 1.5x and last about 5 minutes. I guess 2 people requesting a ride at the same time constitutes a surge here.  
I haven't gone online again since, but have been monitoring surge and demands in the app.

Wilmington is not populated enough to have sufficient demand, and is spread out enough to fill the day with dead miles. I'm going to end up juggling a few shifts at the pizza place to work during dinner rush instead of all day long, and Uber during special events and some evenings when my GF is working and people are trying to get downtown. I'll still be seeking the surge and take enough trips to avoid deactivation, and take advantage of some partner rewards (the Carolina's just got a partnership with AAA: $15/year for basic services). I looked into applying to drive for Lyft and after attempting to sign up was notified that it isn't available in my area.

To all the people who had positive things to say about Uber, I really appreciate your input, and am glad that the service works out for you in your markets. I'm just going to have to accept that the hours I preferred to work (having most nights and weekends off for family) aren't profitable in my area. I'm not discrediting anyone. I believe everyone's experience is going to be subjective with ride-sharing services.

Again, thank you all for your input. I hope the people who are unhappy with current rates will see an improvement in the near future. Hopefully some of these new competitors, and lawsuits against Uber, will promote positive changes (fair rates, tips, etc.) In the meantime I'm going to have to come up with a new escape plan, or find a way to make my job less miserable.


----------



## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

^^^ Thanks for the update.

It seems clear that the only way a person can do legit (non gaming) work for Uber/Lyft is to own a Prius or the equivalent. Yes, if you're getting 50 mpg then your profits are going to be higher. If you happen to luck out and get a car that only requires $650 in maintenance every 100,000 miles, then congrats.

Unfortunately, to give people advice based upon those remarkable stats is irresponsible without qualifying them by saying, "These are NOT typical results."

I've been driving cars for 24 years and have never heard of a vehicle that only requires $650 in maintenance every 100,000 miles. That's astounding. You should write to Toyota and share it with them; I'm sure they'd like to use that in their marketing copy. Congratulations, you won the automobile reliability lottery.

The only downside is... you drive a Prius


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I drive an 18mpg avg minivan. My fuel expense is $0.11 to $0.12/mile. Prius is not the key to successful rideshare.


----------



## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

BostonBarry said:


> I drive an 18mpg avg minivan. My fuel expense is $0.11 to $0.12/mile. Prius is not the key to successful rideshare.


Ignorance to facts, math, risks and common sense are the only keys to success in rideshare.


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

The unwillingness to share "facts" as I have, makes your OPINIONS worthless.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> You have my apologies....Sometimes it's hard to refer to fellow forumites based on their forum names....How is H town this morning??...Saw the stuff from the news, looks bad.


Just saw this. Yeah, second worst flooding in houston ever, behind tropical storm Alison is what they're saying. Luckily I don't live in an affected area.

Houston floods pretty much every year, 2 or 3x. Some areas flood a lot, but there's always some spot that floods that never has before.

So far I think 7 people died. Someone posted a video here which pretty much shows WHY they do.

Flooding is very dangerous. Folks don't realize just how dangerous.

I've been here long enough to know where it floods consistently and which roads are always an issue in heavy rain. I didn't go out in this even when it went to 8.8x surge. Uber should simply shut down, but of course they don't care.

YouTube "reporter saves man in houston flood" to see video of stupid driver. I can't get my phone to post it for some reason.

One driver actually drove around a barrier and drowned.

It's still flooded in many areas. We're still getting some rain and of course water often keeps rising long after the rain stops.

Houston is so flat and close to sea level and all the construction has just made it worse and worse.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

AintWorthIt said:


> He has a fancy spreadsheet, he has it all figured out lol


Perhaps fancy spreadsheets come with his job...... he seems so intent on disproving something we all know to be true even if we know it anecdotally. You see, it is in our nature as human beings to want our choices to succeed. So when we all started driving we drove our asses off (I think this is true for many if not most) to reinforce our decision to drive rideshare. Then after some fare fun and games and the always crowd pleasing micky mouse management games played by Uber (20% difference between ETA on the app and Google maps...always longer....Greying out the button to leave the app so you have to hunt for it....endless bullshit schemes to get us to work for them for non compensatory rates. and the list is endless) and then we have the guys with spreadsheets who tell us we are dummies for not making .70 per mi/ o cancellation fees/ ever expanding pick up distances work for us. I cant wait for the smartest guys in the room to flame out!!!!


----------



## Noukie (Apr 21, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> So, $500 a week in 40 hours isn't doable?


Ces sur ses faisable


----------



## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

It can be trying at times, I think at times I worry about my safety at times now, unlike when I drove company vehicles driving GP PAX around. I never got robbed , or mugged, or assaulted in any way. I had times where I didn't like the situation, and wanted to get moving and finish the run and move on to a better one.

I think the problem for me is, I used to be assigned a company vehicle, or sometimes got to pick my choice of vehicle for the day, or run(s). However it was their vehicle. I don't have to maintain it etc etc. I sometimes now find myself feeling like I'm whoring out my car TBH. Previously I also had a radio to call a dispatcher with things like ""Help help I'm being robbed." ( Or kinda like the person who was drunk and thought it was okay to touch me. TY I'm glad I'm attractive to you please don't try to seduce me or cross those lines. We all like the use of our hands and limbs just like before we entered my car.) So times like that is when I really can't wait to get them to the destination without anything else happening on the way there.

In the long run I know I will have a big maintenance bill annually, and my car will get more wear and tear then it would have before I signed up to drive for ride share companies. However any vehicle falls apart even if you store it for 20 years or more.

However in perspective The employers I drove for previously had to pay insurance on Vehicles that were $100K and up new sometimes $500K or more. Plus insurance for a fleet of vehicles that includes all the legal bells and whistles to be able to run a transportation company. As one employer told me, "It costs me well over a million dollars a year in insurance to cover those trucks. Not to mention what happens when they break!" I also didnt get as offended by some people by what they said when they entered my company vehicle, but seriously this is my private vehicle. Also I have to a make sure nobody left a crack pipe tucked in the back seat before let my children in the car to take them to school.

It's different when your just an employee, vs being this owner operator ride share deal. It's not bad for now, but I don't want to make a living out of this.


----------



## Bay Area 101 Scrambler (Mar 12, 2016)

Depends what market you are in . In Sf Bay, u can make 1,000 per week 40 hours even AFTER you paid for gas and lease of car from company linked up with uber . All depends what market .


----------



## truedarthvader (Apr 20, 2016)

Is it really as bad as it sounds, you ask?
Yes and probably even a little worse.
Keep that pizza job, my friend.


----------



## X-Cabbie (Oct 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> my depreciation per mile is based on my expectation of driving this car until 2018


#1: Nobody cares about your expectations. The only important question is how much you could sell your car for today vs. last year, i.e. how much value the vehicle lost while you were driving it.
#2: You can't combine future depreciation rates, which are lower, with past repair costs, which are also lower. That's cheating.


Undermensch said:


> What's wrong with them? Something specific.


#3: According to kbb.com, your car would currently be worth about $7000 with 70k miles and $5700 with 100K. That's 4.4 cents per mile, which is twice the 2.2 cents per mile in your depreciation worksheet.
#4: "Depreciation Per Mile Due to Extended Ownership" is an oxymoron. Just report depreciation per month or per year when it's not related to mileage.
#5: Edmunds.com doesn't have data for your car, but their total cost of ownership for the 2010 Prius is about $4000 per year. 10-15k miles at 15-20 cents per mile is about $2000, so that leaves about $2000 per year for the ownership component. Of course the rate for the 2008 model will be lower, but even if it's only about $1000-$1500, that's still about $1000 more than $180, which is what your 0.6 cents per mile works out to, based on 30k miles for the year.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> Perhaps fancy spreadsheets come with his job...... he seems so intent on disproving something we all know to be true even if we know it anecdotally. You see, it is in our nature as human beings to want our choices to succeed. So when we all started driving we drove our asses off (I think this is true for many if not most) to reinforce our decision to drive rideshare. Then after some fare fun and games and the always crowd pleasing micky mouse management games played by Uber (20% difference between ETA on the app and Google maps...always longer....Greying out the button to leave the app so you have to hunt for it....endless bullshit schemes to get us to work for them for non compensatory rates. and the list is endless) and then we have the guys with spreadsheets who tell us we are dummies for not making .70 per mi/ o cancellation fees/ ever expanding pick up distances work for us. I cant wait for the smartest guys in the room to flame out!!!!


I love fancy spreadsheets. Been using them for self employment stuff since 1991 (remember Microsoft Works 3.1?) But all of mine for Uber tell me it sucks.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

X-Cabbie said:


> #1: Nobody cares about your expectations. The only important question is how much you could sell your car for today vs. last year, i.e. how much value the vehicle lost while you were driving it.
> #2: You can't combine future depreciation rates, which are lower, with past repair costs, which are also lower. That's cheating.
> 
> #3: According to kbb.com, your car would currently be worth about $7000 with 70k miles and $5700 with 100K. That's 4.4 cents per mile, which is twice the 2.2 cents per mile in your depreciation worksheet.
> ...


He also doesn't realize no one "expects" to have a car totalled. That happened to me in a less than 2 year old car and of course at that point you don't get to enjoy the reduced depreciation in the later years of car ownership.

I've also had an 8 year old car totalled, and came out ahead on that one. But you never know what will happen. I usually drive cars until the wheels fall off, and for 30 years did that. Then had 2 cars totalled in less than 2 years. Not driving for Uber, though.


----------



## New driver (Feb 5, 2016)

Dailydriver said:


> Everyone's talking about how you can't make money anymore but I currently work for a corporate pizza place where I'm probably only making around $500/week average working nearly 40 hours. That number is paychecks and tips combined . I only work day shift at this pizza place, so that my schedule leaves me with free time for my son and girlfriend weekends and evenings. Because of the hours that I'm working I'm basically cleaning and prepping food for most of the day with few deliveries and bad tips.
> If I can make at least $500 a week (on a similar schedule) it would be worth it for me to drop the pizza place. I've been doing the pizza thing for about ten years and it seems I'm making less money now than when I started, and it's killing my soul. Keep in mind I'm already using my own car, paying for my own gas, maintenance etc.


----------



## New driver (Feb 5, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I love fancy spreadsheets. Been using them for self employment stuff since 1991 (remember Microsoft Works 3.1?) But all of mine for Uber tell me it sucks.


Has anyone heard about "the Pool" ??


----------



## CIncinnatiDriver (Dec 17, 2015)

SO much confusion out there
The crowd seems split...some think 50 cents/mile is hogwash...others swear by it.

*I'm going with 40 cents/mile.
That's sort of a consensus number from a LOT of data, below.

(And, $1/mile for a brand-new SUV.)*

***Skip to the end for the Consumer Reports numbers..they seem best.***

DEF have to use 30-50 cents per mile...
Some VERY large organizations support this number...

The people who study it are clear. A quick rundown:

Three numbers to examine:
1 Use (gas, oil, repairs, maintenance, etc)
2 Use + Ownership i.e. Buying or replacing the car. (i.e. if you drive 200,000 miles, you must replace it. If you drive 50,000 miles, you used up 1/4 of that, it's a cost of driving for Uber)
3. Insurance
a. regular family insurance - I deducted these off the AAA numbers, since we pay this whether we drive or not. i.e if they say it costs $7k to drive a car, I put that down as $6k. So for AAA, to drive a sedan for a year, it's like $6k/15,000 = 40 cents/mile
b. extra livery insurance - I did not factor this in. Most drivers don't buy it, I think.

*AAA shakes out at 40-66 cents/mile* !
1 Use: 16-24 cents/ mile
2 Use + Ownership: ($6k-10k/15,000 = 40-66 cents/mile !
www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-own-a-car-in-2014

*Kelly blue book:
At least 27.8 cents/mile. AT LEAST !!!*
If you hover over the colored circles, it's clear that use (gas, repairs, maintenance) total 35% of their $22,633 number.
www.kbb.comlnew-cars sl total-cost-of-ownership/?r=113022943834841340

1 Use (new car!): $7,921 / 5 = $1,584
$1,584/15,000 = 10 cents per mile.
2. Use + Ownership*:*$13,365/(5x15000miles)=17.8 cents/mile.
Total: at least 27.8 cents/mile. AT LEAST
I consider this number a low-ball, unreliable number. I think they're leaving something out...
And remember...as car ages, depreciation goes down but repairs go up!! Consumer Reports has an article on this.

*The gov't and AAA:*
Per: www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/08/cost-car-ownership

*1. Dep't of Labor 
46 cents/mile*
- $8,000 per year. Deduct 1000 for insurance we pay anyway....$7000 per year / 15000 = 46 cents/mile
*2. AAA
36-50 cents per mile*
- 41,4 - 57.6 cents per mile. Deduct 12.5% for insurance we already pay (i.e. $1000/8000=12.5%).
Yields 36-50 cents per mile

*The gov't - per 1040 tax forms
50 cents/mile*
We can deduct at 57.5 cents per mile.
Even if we deduct like 10-12.5 % for insurance that should be costed out...
Yields like 50 cents/mile

*Consumer Reports
Older car - 26.6 - 53.2 cents per mile !!, or even $1.07 (for a brand new high-end SUV)*
It all depends on your car.
So, according to their calculations, which seem the most detailed of any above,
you are paying like $4,000-8,000 per year for older car?
My data comes from:
1. If you look at the graph entitled, "Average carrying vs. operating costs",
At the far right (8 year old car), total of ave. carrying and operating seems to be about $6,000?
2. Honda Fit (see below) is probably like $4,000 per year after5 years, so if the low end is $4k for older-car annual driving, and the average is $6k, perhaps the top end is like $8k. I know, data plots can be all over the place, but as a rough estimate, this is not an unreasonable starting point.
*That's 26.6 - 53.2 cents per mile !! for an average older car*

Looking at the left hand (most expensive/newest!) part of that graph,
the most expensive SUV will have first year carrying + operating costs of $13k + 3 k = like $16k
*A brand new high -end SUV is like $1.07 per mile*

As I said...there are so many factors, there is no one-size fits all answer
Look up your car, deduct 8-12% insurance from their numbers.
but we can get some quick estimates, such as this quick example
*Older Honda Fit - probably $4,000 per year ? i.e. 26.6 cents per mile*
(based on - it costs an average of $5300 per year if buy it new and own for 5 years, which includes very high 1styear depreciation cost. Then ensuing years are lower (and by the way averages work, must be lower than $5300), so an eyeball estimate, imo is perhaps $4,000 peryear for an older Fit ?)
All cars are $5,000-13,000 per year average cost of ownership first five years

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/what-that-car-really-costs-to-own/index.htm
*
SUMMARY STATEMENT:*
No matter how you cut it,
*40 cents per mile is NOT an unreasonable number.*


----------



## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

If you can do anything else, don't do Uber.


----------



## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> No, it isn't that bad.
> 
> The drivers who say it's bad fall into these categories:
> 
> ...


Here's another category:

4. Ex-drivers who finally came to their senses, did the math, and found that they are making less than minimum wage and went out and got a real job.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

gofry said:


> Here's another category:
> 
> 4. Ex-drivers who finally came to their senses, did the math, and found that they are making less than minimum wage and went out and got a real job.


If they aren't making minimum wage then that was a wise choice that I support fully.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> Perhaps fancy spreadsheets come with his job...... he seems so intent on disproving something we all know to be true even if we know it anecdotally. You see, it is in our nature as human beings to want our choices to succeed. So when we all started driving we drove our asses off (I think this is true for many if not most) to reinforce our decision to drive rideshare. Then after some fare fun and games and the always crowd pleasing micky mouse management games played by Uber (20% difference between ETA on the app and Google maps...always longer....Greying out the button to leave the app so you have to hunt for it....endless bullshit schemes to get us to work for them for non compensatory rates. and the list is endless) and then we have the guys with spreadsheets who tell us we are dummies for not making .70 per mi/ o cancellation fees/ ever expanding pick up distances work for us. I cant wait for the smartest guys in the room to flame out!!!!


Rarely has an inability, or unwillingness, to use math or accounting led to profitability.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I love fancy spreadsheets. Been using them for self employment stuff since 1991 (remember Microsoft Works 3.1?) But all of mine for Uber tell me it sucks.


When my earnings suck, I'll stop driving. If your earnings suck you should stop.


----------



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

X-Cabbie said:


> #1: Nobody cares about your expectations. The only important question is how much you could sell your car for today vs. last year, i.e. how much value the vehicle lost while you were driving it.


Not true at all. You just don't understand how depreciation works, I guess.

Any depreciating asset has an expected lifetime and you depreciate over that lifetime. You don't buy a new car off the lot, drive it a mile and say "OMG, I just lost $5k in 1 mile, so my depreciation rate to use for the next 5 years is $5k/mile".



X-Cabbie said:


> #2: You can't combine future depreciation rates, which are lower, with past repair costs, which are also lower. That's cheating.


What past repair costs? I don't even know what you're referring to here.

I have future expected repair costs for shocks, tires, and oil changes accounted for in addition to depreciation. Repair costs != depreciation.



X-Cabbie said:


> #3: According to kbb.com, your car would currently be worth about $7000 with 70k miles and $5700 with 100K. That's 4.4 cents per mile, which is twice the 2.2 cents per mile in your depreciation worksheet.


Ok, you definitely don't understand depreciation.



X-Cabbie said:


> #4: "Depreciation Per Mile Due to Extended Ownership" is an oxymoron. Just report depreciation per month or per year when it's not related to mileage.


I'm amortizing it per mile. You can count it a different way if you want to.



X-Cabbie said:


> #5: Edmunds.com doesn't have data for your car, but their total cost of ownership for the 2010 Prius is about $4000 per year. 10-15k miles at 15-20 cents per mile is about $2000, so that leaves about $2000 per year for the ownership component. Of course the rate for the 2008 model will be lower, but even if it's only about $1000-$1500, that's still about $1000 more than $180, which is what your 0.6 cents per mile works out to, based on 30k miles for the year.


"The Edmunds Inc. True Cost to Own® (TCO®) pricing system calculates the additional costs you may not have included when considering your next vehicle purchase. These extra costs include: depreciation, interest on your loan, taxes and fees, insurance premiums, fuel costs, maintenance, and repairs. Search here to view the TCO® of any vehicle."

Yes, let's double-count fuel costs and maintenance (which are already accounted for outside of depreciation in my sheet). There is no interest on the loan (there is no loan). Taxes, fees, and insurance premiums are not part of depreciation either; in any case, I have to pay them already as this is our second family car and that's my primary purpose for owning it. Queue up response about how "thou shalt count them because when I owned a cab I had to"...


----------



## tee hee (Nov 24, 2015)

if you enjoy washing dishes, cleaning up the oil, and taking out garbage, do the pizza job. but that's not for me. it's too backbreaking work


----------



## Sedgehammer (Jun 23, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't imagine that you'll be able to work days in Wilmington and come up with $100 a day + expenses. You might in the middle of the summer with tourists but the rest of the year you will starve. You will have to drive late Friday and Sat. to make any money.


Wilmington is completely dead in the off months.. but it is beach season.. might be in luck.


----------

