# Lyft (Not Uber) passenger killed, two injured in multi-car collision in Sacramento



## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

*The driver drove for both Uber & Lyft. This resulted in the confusion initially.*

*Lyft Driver Involved in Deadly Crash*
POSTED 5:43 PM, NOVEMBER 2, 2014, BY ALI WOLF
http://fox40.com/2014/11/02/lyft-driver-involved-in-deadly-crash/



*Uber passenger killed, two injured in multi-car collision in Sacramento*

http://fox40.com/2014/11/01/man-killed-in-cab-crash-coming-home-from-halloween-party/


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Some one has said in the comments section it was an uber

http://m.kcra.com/news/teen-killed-in-i80-crash-after-halloween-party/29477812


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

My thoughts are with this driver and his passengers / families. Here's hoping Uber will do the right thing and offer full support to this driver.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

This report seems to be more sure of it: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article3512857.html#/tabPane=tabs-667eea02-1


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

Shane Holland is the deceased young man from the accident. No confirmation if he was in an UberX. But reporters are on the case, I'm sure.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> *One dead, two injured in multi-car collision on Interstate 80*
> 
> *Please Google News search "Sacramento Accident"*


This is a sad post. I know none of the facts. But this potentially could have been any of us. If this sad event did involve Uber, we will soon see what Uber (and their insurance policy) are made of.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> *Man Killed in Cab Crash Coming Home from Halloween Party*
> 
> *http://fox40.com/2014/11/01/man-killed-in-cab-crash-coming-home-from-halloween-party/*


FOX40 reached out to Uber for comment on who is responsible for accidents involving ride sharing vehicles, and is still waiting to hear back from them. INSURANCE anyone???


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

Thats terrible! Wouldn't want this to happen even to my worst enemy.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Probably won't be hearing from that driver for awhile. His life was just ruined.

Not to even mention the victims who thought they were 'safe.' Driver was probably speeding so he could get his next surge fare.

If you haven't figured out that to survive this gig long term you HAVE to drive like a grandpa what can I say? And you still will be subject to many many dangerous situations.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

I had to drive twenty miles an hour up 395 during the rain. You have to take it slow and easy. The slowest I have driven was on I 68 in Maryland at five miles per hour during bad weather. I sped up to ten miles an hour just to feel like I was moving. I was leading the pack of vehicles at that point. 

I am sure this winter we will see situations like this.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> Thats terrible! Wouldn't want this to happen even to my worst enemy.


...agreed.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> Thats terrible! Wouldn't want this to happen even to my worst enemy.


I am afraid that the driver's live may now also be ruined, at least financially (if not emotionally. His own insurance is probably not in force (worthless). Uber's "insurance" will now be put to the test BIG TIME. But it almost certainly will not cover his car, himself or his liability.


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I am afraid that the driver's live may now also be ruined, at least financially (if not emotionally. His own insurance is probably not in force (worthless). Uber's "insurance" will now be put to the test BIG TIME. But it almost certainly will not cover his car, himself or his liability.


How did the Uber Insurance play out in that little girl accident in San Fran? (Not sure where it happened)


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I am afraid that the driver's live may now also be ruined, at least financially (if not emotionally. His own insurance is probably not in force (worthless). Uber's "insurance" will now be put to the test BIG TIME. But it almost certainly will not cover his car, himself or his liability.


Insurance investigators from his GREAT and ADEQUATE personal auto policy will crucify him for a very very long time. I suspect that this may be a recurring headline in many states that will JOLT Uber drivers and the company and the insurance companies out of their fairy tale part time driver existence.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> How did the Uber Insurance play out in that little girl accident in San Fran? (Not sure where it happened)


I don't know any of the facts, but someone must. Good question though.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Insurance investigators from his GREAT and ADEQUATE personal auto policy will crucify him for a very very long time. I suspect that this may be a recurring headline in many states that will JOLT Uber drivers and the company and the insurance companies out of their fairy tale part time driver existence.


I hope that it does have that effect. It might in some small way be something positive that may come out of this tragedy. I wonder what "Sean Gorman" has to say about this?


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

I have been seeing more broken down cars all over the freeways. It can be disconcerting. Even with flashers on, many drivers may not notice until it is too late.


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

uberdc/Virginia said:


> I have been seeing more broken down cars all over the freeways. It can be disconcerting. Even with flashers on, many drivers may not notice until it is too late.


Def so, dark car on a poorly lightened up interstate is just an accident waiting to happen. Even if you were doing the speed limit (60 MPH) you will not have time to stop.

Also rain makes it harder to see the lanes on interstate with your app open. I usually just press INFO and it will darken up my Uber app and I can see much better on interstate during rain/dark.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I don't know any of the facts, but someone must. Good question though.


Incidents like these tend to go into public information lock down because they are swarming with attorneys and law enforcement who take over the scene.

It's just a shame that people have to pay with their lives and the driver pays with his financial future over the shit for pay and poor *driver underinsured service. *If that driver KNEW he should have had a commercial policy and had to PAY MORE because of the REAL DRIVER/PASSENGER RISK ENHANCEMENT he may have been more considerate of his actions.

Sounds like the Uber driver, probably some 20 something year old, was simply not being safe for the rainy conditions. Not saying he was young. Just that a lot of these guys are 20 somethings who are not that mature behind the wheel. Old guys tend to be a little more cautious from longer experience.


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

I agree with you, I cringe when I see 20 something year old driving for Uber.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I hope that it does have that effect. It might in some small way be something positive that may come out of this tragedy. I wonder what "Sean Gorman" has to say about this?


Yeah, all that don't ask don't tell driver bullshit with their personal auto policies will fly out the window in any serious injury accident and in the case of death, criminal negligence from several angles may even come into play if the personal auto company or law enforcement wants to force the issue and make a few examples.


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## Orlando_Driver (Jul 14, 2014)

I Feel sorry for the rider that lost his life. I feel sorry for the Uber driver his life is now ****ed !


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Driver was probably speeding so he could get his next surge fare.


That is a very good point you make!
I wonder what was the Surge Pricing in Sacramento at the time (1:25 AM on Nov 1st) of the accident?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> That is a very good point you make!
> I wonder what was the Surge Pricing in Sacramento at the time (1:25 AM on Nov 1st) of the accident?


If "I" was a lawyer for the plaintiff financial inducement for drivers to 'hurry up' and get another ride before surge ends would be one of the first items on my list. And I would simply subpena Uber's records for comparisons of surge times/rates of speed compared to non-surge times/rates of speed for starters to make a document easy to understand case for a jury.

Attorney's will have big money time with this stuff and with Uber. I hope Travis and his investors tighten their belts and get ready for pants pull down time.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Isn't Uber's liability primary since the pax was in car?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Isn't Uber's liability primary since the pax was in car?


One would hope so, but you have to wonder how deep the financial pockets are for a out of country based insurer (Bermuda or some shell corp haven)

Attorney's and settlements don't come cheap. And the driver is probably just screwed unless Uber wants to play nice, as if big money and attorneys ever play nice. lol with that angle. They might play nice for awhile with driver accident incidents and covering them just for P.R. purposes til they shaft their IPO on the public.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

Probably, isn't that how it works.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

There is no way on Gods Green earth that the drivers personal auto policy will NOT incur huge legal and investigative costs for these incidents. When stuff like this happens everyone involved in any way gets compelled to the table of involvement. It's one of the first rule of legal engagements. The more players on the table, the bigger the chances of getting paid by the plaintiffs.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> How did the Uber Insurance play out in that little girl accident in San Fran? (Not sure where it happened)


It is still in lawsuit stage. Uber is using it as a test to find out if they can actually claim no liability in Period 1 (app on no rider). The drivers insurance actually made a settlement offer on behalf of the driver of $30k to the family (his maximum, state minimum) it was refused in favor of the lawsuit with Uber. Case history here

In this case the owner of the Kia (who Stalled) insurance should be first in line to pay. But with someone in intensive care I am sure any limits will be exhausted quickly. Uber will be tapped for the rest. Test will be if they pay up easily or force passengers to sue to get a payout like in Herrera Vs. Uber.

Guy was in a new car with every safety feature available in the auto industry. Still a crap shoot who lives and dies. Just tragic.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> And the driver is probably just screwed unless Uber wants to play nice,


Uber will not play nice to avoid bad PR... Uber never has. Playing nice and paying out to the driver would set a precedent.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> Uber will not play nice to avoid bad PR... Uber never has. Playing nice and paying out to the driver would set a precedent.


As soon as Uber makes their first claim of legitimacy to avoid paying the DRIVERS costs, that the DRIVER did not have a "valid" personal auto insurance policy it will be game over for their own business model. So, yeah, popcorn and watch time is in order for now.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

Some more pics of Shane Holland:


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

Was the Uber Driver an member on this forum? JW


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

I think forum members are just one tenth of one percent of all uber drivers.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

This isn't a situation where if the driver had his own commercial insurance, he'd be better off. An attorney in a high profile situation like this is going to see dollar signs and probably try to go after Uber's deep pockets, and past the $1 million policy limits. Whether or not a death is worth millions of dollars is another story. While it's obviously sad for his friends and family, questions like "did he suffer?" or "Who depends on him for income?" come into play when determining the value of a death. I don't have experience with claims involving fatalities myself, but I've been told that the value of a life for insurance/legal purposes is lower than most people would imagine.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> One would hope so, but you have to wonder how deep the financial pockets are for a out of country based insurer (Bermuda or some shell corp haven)
> 
> Attorney's and settlements don't come cheap. And the driver is probably just screwed unless Uber wants to play nice, as if big money and attorneys ever play nice. lol with that angle. They might play nice for awhile with driver accident incidents and covering them just for P.R. purposes til they shaft their IPO on the public.


James River does have a high rating. I do think the pax family will be taken care of (1mil is standard coverage) and their liability is primary, but the driver will probably be on his own


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> *This isn't a situation where if the driver had his own commercial insurance, he'd be better off. *An attorney in a high profile situation like this is going to see dollar signs and probably try to go after Uber's deep pockets, and past the $1 million policy limits. Whether or not a death is worth millions of dollars is another story. While it's obviously sad for his friends and family, questions like "did he suffer?" or "Who depends on him for income?" come into play when determining the value of a death. I don't have experience with claims involving fatalities myself, but I've been told that the value of a life for insurance/legal purposes is lower than most people would imagine.


Your opinion that valid insurance compared to the don't ask don't tell LIE and HIDE so the personal auto policy company doesn't CATCH YOU spiel is utter nonsense.

It's the difference between driving legally insured in ALL situations compared to butt naked on insurance from a drivers 'personal' insurance protection perspective.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> James River does have a high rating. I do think the pax family will be taken care of (1mil is standard coverage) and their liability is primary, but the driver will probably be on his own


Could be. We'd hope so for the families. Maybe another rate cut for drivers for increased Uber insurance costs in the future?

Personally I suspect drivers will get thrown under the bus just because of the way Uber runs their business with drivers. Drivers in any accidents will get thrown under the insurance bus anyway just by being in an accident if they are at fault in any way even if they had valid commercial insurance. That's the way bad drivers are eventually weeded out of the system in general and onto higher paying NON PAID FOR HIRE ground.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> There is no way on Gods Green earth that the drivers personal auto policy will NOT incur huge legal and investigative costs for these incidents. When stuff like this happens everyone involved in any way gets compelled to the table of involvement. It's one of the first rule of legal engagements. The more players on the table, the bigger the chances of getting paid by the plaintiffs.


I was told the livery exclusion keeps most if them (personal ins) from being at the table any longer than it takes to present their policy.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Your opinion that valid insurance compared to the don't ask don't tell LIE and HIDE so the personal auto policy company doesn't CATCH YOU spiel is utter nonsense.
> 
> It's the difference between driving legally insured in ALL situations compared to butt naked on insurance from a drivers 'personal' insurance protection perspective.


Drop your axe to grind and listen to me for a minute.

In a "normal" auto fatality, the amount recovered on behalf of the deceased party is typically limited to what can be reasonably collected. If I killed someone behind the wheel today, they would get my $100,000 policy limits and be done with. Now, let's look at it in a different scenario. I kill someone behind the wheel while driving for Uber. Since Uber is a company that has the finances to be collected against, the attorney is going to attempt to get far beyond the $1 million policy limits. If the attorney is looking for $5 million, it doesn't matter whether or not I had a $300,000/500,000/1,000,000 commercial liability policy of my own in addition to Uber's, because that attorney is still going after Uber for the remaining $4 million.

Assuming the attorney gets that $5 million, is Uber going to go after me for the remaining $4 million? Not likely, because I'm not collectible.

EDIT: Also note, this is why if you go to any injury attorney's website, you'll see that they encourage you to have high liability limits of your own, and high UM/UIM limits, and a personal umbrella policy. It's not because they care about you, it's because they want as many insurance sources as possible to try and suck dry. Again, going after individuals for money owed is a pointless endeavor.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> This isn't a situation where if the driver had his own commercial insurance, he'd be better off.


The driver only has contingent Collison coverage from Uber, even with a pax on board. Nothing else...his car damages can be recovered, but nothing else will be.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> I was told the livery exclusion keeps most if them (personal ins) from being at the table any longer than it takes to present their policy.


I would suspect so. That's sure as hell where I'd go if I was their insurer. THEN Uber's policy of driver requirement to have a VALID policy comes into play as well. It's gonna be interesting.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> I was told the livery exclusion keeps most if them (personal ins) from being at the table any longer than it takes to present their policy.


They will get named in any lawsuit. And the personal insurance company will have to file a motion to exclude them. Case law will release most of them easily. Unless a judge wants to set a precedent.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Drop your axe to grind and listen to me for a minute.
> 
> In a "normal" auto fatality, the amount recovered on behalf of the deceased party is typically limited to what can be reasonably collected. If I killed someone behind the wheel today, they would get my $100,000 policy limits and be done with. Now, let's look at it in a different scenario. I kill someone behind the wheel while driving for Uber. Since Uber is a company that has the finances to be collected against, the attorney is going to attempt to get far beyond the $1 million policy limits. If the attorney is looking for $5 million, it doesn't matter whether or not I had a $300,000/500,000/1,000,000 commercial liability policy of my own in addition to Uber's, because that attorney is still going after Uber for the remaining $4 million.
> 
> Assuming the attorney gets that $5 million, is Uber going to go after me for the remaining $4 million? Not likely, because I'm not collectible.


You can toot your little 'experience' horn all you please. I've said nothing more from the beginning that it is only the DRIVERS responsiblity to adequately insure THEMSELVES and that they should contact their own insurance professionals for advice and to NOT TAKE your bullshit spiels as the real deal, because YOU are not their insurer nor do YOU make those determinations for any driver.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> They will get named in any lawsuit. And the personal insurance company will have to file a motion to exclude them. Case law will release most of them easily. Unless a judge wants to set a precedent.


I would agree that it will probably translate for the DRIVERS that they are up the creek without a paddle. The personal auto insurance policy will be nowhere to be found because it was invalid the moment drivers start doing ride for pay and they are NOT going to cover illegal activity for any reason. And if they want to play hardball that invalidation COULD even extend to incidents on their personal driving time as well.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Could be. We'd hope so for the families. Maybe another rate cut for drivers for increased Uber insurance costs in the future?
> 
> Personally I suspect drivers will get thrown under the bus just because of the way Uber runs their business with drivers. Drivers in any accidents will get thrown under the insurance bus anyway just by being in an accident if they are at fault in any way even if they had valid commercial insurance. That's the way bad drivers are eventually weeded out of the system in general and onto higher paying NON PAID FOR HIRE ground.


Well, I do hope the policy works as claimed, otherwise our 1mil commercial policy is pointless if we are still on the hook personally. Then again, that us why we are an LLC


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> You can toot your little 'experience' horn all you please. I've said nothing more from the beginning that it is only the DRIVERS responsiblity to adequately insure THEMSELVES and that they should contact their own insurance professionals for advice and to NOT TAKE your bullshit spiels as the real deal, because YOU are not their insurer nor do YOU make those determinations for any driver.


You CANNOT adequately insure yourself when driving with connections to a large corporation. Let's say that this attorney can legitimately get $5 million out of this case. There are not insurance policies available with $5 million limits.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> The driver only has contingent Collison coverage from Uber, even with a pax on board. Nothing else...his car damages can be recovered, but nothing else will be.


That may be predicated on the driver having an adequate personal auto policy as well. I think it will eventually come to light that the majority of Uber drivers may technically be driving uninsured from their personal auto insurance carriers perspectives because they are doing drive for pay which invalidates their policies.

But will say again, call your own insurance companies to get the real story on personal auto insurance and the EFFECT it has on those policies when also driving customers for money.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> You CANNOT adequately insure yourself when driving with connections to a large corporation. Let's say that this attorney can legitimately get $5 million out of this case. There are not insurance policies available with $5 million limits.


Let's just say you're full of crap. For drivers it's the difference between obtaining suitable coverage for their situation or possibly not having any personal coverage at all.

It would appear to be a very crucial difference for the DRIVER.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> They will get named in any lawsuit. And the personal insurance company will have to file a motion to exclude them. Case law will release most of them easily. Unless a judge wants to set a precedent.


Exactly ! That's why they have sought precise exemptions in state laws to make it damned clear. CA and CO make no bones about the liability in their new laws.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> That is a very good point you make!
> I wonder what was the Surge Pricing in Sacramento at the time (1:25 AM on Nov 1st) of the accident?


From looking at the local drivers group they did not seem to get above 2x. That makes sense, not a party town. Either that or they capped it at 2x so as not to piss off any lawmakers (or their aids) who reside in that town. I think that's also the reason they are still at $2.00 a mile. If you want to find some happy Uber drivers head to Sacramento, they are not bad mouthing Uber to any of the passenger lawmakers. They are happy getting good pay that most of us saw a year or more ago.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Exactly ! That's why they have sought precise exemptions in state laws to make it damned clear. CA and CO make no bones about the liability in their new laws.


Yea except the CA law not in effect yet. July 2015. PUC trying to enact it earlier, Uber and Lyft fighting them all the way.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Again, when the chips settle in accidents, IF the driver for hire has did his homework and has suitable personal insurance, a semi-effective legal wall of protection is in place as they covered themselves in a reasonable fashion and what could reasonably be expected from both a regulatory and insurance perspective. For those drivers who don't and play the LIE and HIDE game, they may be just screwed personally. 

In any case after the fact of an accident, when a driver is at fault they are going to have problems but at least with suitable coverage the damage can possibly be mitigated to some extents.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Yea except the CA law not in effect yet. July 2015. PUC trying to enact it earlier, Uber and Lyft fighting them all the way.


*It is my personal opinion that Uber has actively sought to induce drivers into personal auto insurance fraud.*


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

I read that where Washington DC city council ( not sure about which arm of gov. ) embraced Uber because of several factors. These are not all of them and exact but a few that relate to this one one that stuck out in my mind. #3

1) cab driver background check 3 yrs vs. Uber 7 yrs
2)cab Ins. 300k / 100k / 50k Ins. vs. Uber 1,000,000 Ins. with App running and Pax in vehicle
3) cab same ^ Uber 100k/50k/10k ANYTIME the App is on


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## Berliner (Oct 29, 2014)

Uber stands behind the driver.....
Sure, it´s less dangerous than standing in front.

@srcurbscrud: commercial insurance is only valid if the driver as well has a CDL. F.E.: if you drive a truck without licence for this, the insurance will pay in case of accident, but they will take back the bucks from you.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Berliner said:


> Uber stands behind the driver.....
> Sure, it´s less dangerous than standing in front.
> 
> @srcurbscrud: commercial insurance is only valid if the driver as well has a CDL. F.E.: if you drive a truck without licence for this, the insurance will pay in case of accident, but they will take back the bucks from you.


Requirements vary dramatically from state to state and country to country. What you state above has no bearing in my state. Drivers more than likely CAN obtain suitable livery insurance/personal auto insurance apart from any other requirements unless they are prohibited to (rightfully) selling coverage where the policy can't be used without other conditions as you state above.

That's why it's best for any driver just to obtain professional insurance advice in each locale. Not that half the dumb shits behind the wheel don't know or even care, but that's another story isn't it?


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## Bill Feit (Aug 1, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I don't know any of the facts, but someone must. Good question though.


If it is the incident I think you are referring to--hit little girl on way to pick up accepted uber fare?...it has resulted in new California Insurance Law requiring all drivers to have personal liability insurance of $200,000 or more and, I THINK, for Uber to insure drivers whenever they are on line. The driver did NOT have this and Uber was not responsible because the accident was before fare pick up. Bad thing is this is only CA law!!


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> If it is the incident I think you are referring to--hit little girl on way to pick up accepted uber fare?...it has resulted in new California Insurance Law requiring all drivers to have personal liability insurance of $200,000 or more and, I THINK, for Uber to insure drivers whenever they are on line. The driver did NOT have this and Uber was not responsible because the accident was before fare pick up. Bad thing is this is only CA law!!


Ouch. That's not good.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Yea except the CA law not in effect yet. July 2015. PUC trying to enact it earlier, Uber and Lyft fighting them all the way.


One of our clients is a major insurance executive with extensive dealings in California. He said technically, this already applies as far as the personal insurance goes as long as they Already have some type of livery exclusion in their policy, but the new law succinctly puts the onus on uber to own the gap, shortening the amount of time it takes for any court to relieve the personal carrier.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> Bad thing is this is only CA law!!


"App On" Primary Commercial Insurance is CA law starting from July 2015, And CO law starting Jan 15, 2015. 
Here's hoping more States and Municipalities take notice and follow suit. In all other markets the drivers are left holding the bag in case of a serious accident when they are at work with the App On but are not on an Active Ride at that time.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> "App On" Primary Commercial Insurance is CA law starting from July 2015, And CO law starting Jan 15, 2015.
> Here's hoping more States and Municipalities take notice and follow suit. In all other markets the drivers are left holding the bag in case of a serious accident when they are at work with the App On but are not on an Active Ride at that time.


Unfortunately, many of them naïvely believe they can claim they were on personal business at the time of an accident. Insurance companies have ways of making claims that you were only on a location because of a commercial transaction.Esurance has already denied several claims because of this, and some insurers are starting to refer to this as outright fraud. Once a trend is detected, it will be pretty difficult for drivers to stick to that story.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Unfortunately, many of them naïvely believe they can claim they were on personal business at the time of an accident.


That's why I said "*Serious Acciden*t"


Sanjay said:


> In all other markets the drivers are left holding the bag in case of a *serious accident* when they are at work with the App On but are not on an Active Ride at that time.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Unfortunately, many of them naïvely believe they can claim they were on personal business at the time of an accident. Insurance companies have ways of making claims that you were only on a location because of a commercial transaction.Esurance has already denied several claims because of this, and some insurers are starting to refer to this as outright fraud. Once a trend is detected, it will be pretty difficult for drivers to stick to that story.


Yeah, let's see. I was on the app for 16 hours straight (so I could make my less than minimum wage net,) slept for 4 1/2 hours before taking the family car to church and had an accident on the way. Nope, that sure didn't have any bearing on my personal auto insurance coverage did it?

lol. *Drivers may as well get ahead of the insurance squeeze that is coming if they think it's still worth it driving ride share.* When I talked to an Esurance rep whom I was specifically directed to to answer this question, he basically said that if investigators find out, AND THEY WILL FIND OUT because, as he said they are trained to investigate this in accidents and can find out any number of ways, that there is personal auto insurance hanky panky with ride share drivers, they are not obligated to pay, period, because the insured violated the terms of the policy. He did say that they MAY pay and would then CANCEL drivers without any doubt. He was somewhat, perhaps purposefully ambiguous on this count. I suspect that they may try to 'convert' this part of their biz to other insurance.

Of course any driver is free to make the same call and find out the facts from them or any of the other companies I talked to that said the same things. It was probably the easiest information to get in this biz so far.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, let's see. I was on the app for 16 hours straight (so I could make my less than minimum wage net,) slept for 4 1/2 hours before taking the family car to church and had an accident on the way. Nope, that sure didn't have any bearing on my personal auto insurance coverage did it?
> 
> lol. *Drivers may as well get ahead of the insurance squeeze that is coming if they think it's still worth it driving ride share.* When I talked to an Esurance rep whom I was specifically directed to to answer this question, he basically said that if investigators find out, AND THEY WILL FIND OUT because, as he said they are trained to investigate this in accidents and can find out any number of ways, that there is personal auto insurance hanky panky with ride share drivers, they are not obligated to pay, period, because the insured violated the terms of the policy. He did say that they MAY pay and would then CANCEL drivers without any doubt. He was somewhat, perhaps purposefully ambiguous on this count. I suspect that they may try to 'convert' this part of their biz to other insurance.
> 
> Of course any driver is free to make the same call and find out the facts from them or any of the other companies I talked to that said the same things. It was probably the easiest information to get in this biz so far.


So after you got to the church you preached to choir! (Me!) lmao


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> If it is the incident I think you are referring to--hit little girl on way to pick up accepted uber fare?...it has resulted in new California Insurance Law requiring all drivers to have personal liability insurance of $200,000 or more and, I THINK, for Uber to insure drivers whenever they are on line. The driver did NOT have this and Uber was not responsible because the accident was before fare pick up. Bad thing is this is only CA law!!


so the driver is probably screwed for life.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> You CANNOT adequately insure yourself when driving with connections to a large corporation. Let's say that this attorney can legitimately get $5 million out of this case. There are not insurance policies available with $5 million limits.


in our state $5million is the minimum insurance allowed


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## forkedover (Oct 26, 2014)

It was an accident, bound to happen - still sad.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

It seems that all around the world luber complain about about the taxi cartels and the local govts outdated regulations regarding public transport. Where imlive this is the current arguement anyway. However there are regulations regarding public liability and insurance for registered operators. We have to have comprehensive vehicle for each vehicle and a public liability policy with a minimum of 5 million coverage. Without such coverage we cannot operate and the transport department requires evidence and copies of such policies. So many of the govt regulation that taxis and chauffuers have to comply with are in the interest of the public. 

Hence I do I have an issue with what uber do in relation to uber x


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

It's a lot different in the U.S. Commercial policies are rarely, if ever, written over $1,000,000. I handle claims for 3 regional grocery store chains, many large dealerships, car/truck repair centers, trucking companies, restaurant franchises, construction companies, etc., and none of them have limits over $1,000.000.

Any company that has any sort of reasonable potential for a multimillion dollar claim is either large enough to cover the excess on their own, or is self insured.


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## forkedover (Oct 26, 2014)

Derp

None of those things has passengers....


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

forkedover said:


> Derp
> 
> None of those things has passengers....


Right, because a semi or a dump truck has never injured or killed an innocent motorist.

DERP


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## forkedover (Oct 26, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Right, because a semi or a dump truck has never injured or killed an innocent motorist.
> 
> DERP


Obviously you are a moron and the reason it takes me 4 days to get an insurance quote for my ski doo's

No, injuring someone due to an accident and driving someone into an accident are not the same thing...


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## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

I saw a lot of crazy stuff on Halloween 

A truck backed into the corner of an intersection. No other car or debris in sight. A cop came by around the same time and seemed to have just stumbled across the scene like me. 

Another car just laying upside down on someone's front lawn like wtf. Again no other car in sight. No cops on the scene yet. 

These accidents seemed to have occurred just minutes before I came by. Lucky I wasn't there when these idiots were doing who knows what with their car.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

forkedover said:


> Obviously you are a moron and the reason it takes me 4 days to get an insurance quote for my ski doo's
> 
> No, injuring someone due to an accident and driving someone into an accident are not the same thing...


That would be a great insult if I was an insurance agent, and not an adjuster.

For claims purposes, a non-family member passenger and the driver of another car are the same thing, third parties eligible to make claims on the liability portion of a policy.


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## forkedover (Oct 26, 2014)

I just realized your avatar is an rx8 which invalidates everything you say.

What you are certainly not though is a lawyer...


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## hangarcat (Nov 2, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I am afraid that the driver's live may now also be ruined, at least financially (if not emotionally. His own insurance is probably not in force (worthless). Uber's "insurance" will now be put to the test BIG TIME. But it almost certainly will not cover his car, himself or his liability.


Yeah, poor Uber sucka. His victim's life is OVER jerk!


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## Fred Lead (Oct 28, 2014)

forkedover said:


> Obviously you are a moron and the reason it takes me 4 days to get an insurance quote for my ski doo's
> 
> No, injuring someone due to an accident and driving someone into an accident are not the same thing...





forkedover said:


> I just realized your avatar is an rx8 which invalidates everything you say.
> 
> What you are certainly not though is a lawyer...


You just earned a bunch of ignores. Some people tend to fork themselves over.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

The case could go many ways. How many times have you ever seen a broken down car in the middle of the freeway. Usually, drivers make it to the side of the road. That is unusual. Maybe the Uber driver did everything right but still crashed. Most lawyers I know are never really ever certain of any outcome. Each case is different and unique.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

*Lyft's First Fatality: Passenger Dies In Crash Near Sacramento*

Ellen Huet
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...st-fatality-passenger-death-crash-sacramento/


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

@uberpeople.net 
What do we do with all the wrong facts and assumptions in this thread?
I did not say that this was an Uber accident until it was confirmed by the reports.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

forkedover said:


> I just realized your avatar is an rx8 which invalidates everything you say.
> 
> What you are certainly not though is a lawyer...


Fortunately it wasn't my RX-8, though I learned my lesson from owning one of those.


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## floridog (Aug 31, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> *Uber passenger killed, two injured in multi-car collision in Sacramento*
> 
> http://fox40.com/2014/11/01/man-killed-in-cab-crash-coming-home-from-halloween-party/


That Lyft driver is sooooo ****ed!!!!

His life is basically over. Every penny he makes for the rest of his life will go to the lawyers and family of his illegal passenger. Lyft?? "Ummmmm we are an app and not a transportation company."


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## UberJoe (Sep 16, 2014)

My heart felt condolences go out to the family and friends of the young man that was killed. This is truly tragic. But as we all know it was bound to happen one day. It's all part of the numbers. And sadly, as more ride-sharing drivers (Uber, Lyft, Sidecar, etc) hit the road more these type of events will occur in the future.

This is a horrible yet teachable event. Yes, someone died. And probably the driver's life will be ruined. Unfortunately, this will be the true and probably the most extreme test that will show how a driver will end up in the end. How will the ride-sharing companies, insurance companies/policies, law enforcement, courts, etc all factor in? Will the ride-sharing companies step up or will they scapegoat the driver? Now, only time will tell. Anyone who is driving should be keeping tabs on this one.

I personally, am not driving with Uber in Miami Dade County because technically it is still illegal. And one of my very fears as I mentioned in this post was; what happens if something like this tragic event takes place. And mind you, I don't know if ride-sharing (Uber, Lyft, Sidecar, etc) is legal in Sacramento. But like I said it is not in Miami yet. Being that it's illegal. I don't even see how Uber or any other ride-sharing company can legally help you out while breaking the current laws. As I mentioned in that post on Sept. 30th .... "I believe if something horrific happens they will just turn their back on you. It's a corporation. It's not your buddy. They will probably come up with "we are a private corporation and the driver was an independent contractor who should have adhered his local laws and regulations"."

Maybe I'm right or perhaps I am wrong. But now will we all get to see. Again, my condolences. That poor young man's family will never get to see their son's full potential. Sad.


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

so wait someone spin this as a UBER driver when it was in fact a Lyft driver?


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

My another question is why did the father say it was a Uber driver according to Sanjay's first link? Someone spreading false information?


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> My another question is why did the father say it was a Uber driver according to Sanjay's first link? Someone spreading false information?


Na, just may have been they usually took Uber. And they did as some folks from the Uber drivers group in SAC recognized the passengers. No way for the family to tell short of talking with the driver what platform they were on at the time so early in an accident investigation. Could have ended up being Sidecar. OK well most likely not, lets be real here.

Guess the summary is just this. First person killed while riding in a TNC. Very bad timing as the PUC is having their 1 year en banc hearing on Tuesday to discuss TNC's. Bet they will get a lot of complaining about surge pricing as well. But this puts it in perspective. At least they got home.

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/A1896AC3-E251-4251-853A-59D010AEDC8F/0/TNCEnBancAgenda101514.pdf


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

*Lyft Driver Involved in Deadly Crash*
POSTED 5:43 PM, NOVEMBER 2, 2014, BY ALI WOLF

http://fox40.com/2014/11/02/lyft-driver-involved-in-deadly-crash/


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

*Lyft Driver Speaks after Fellow Driver's Crash*
POSTED 11:27 PM, NOVEMBER 2, 2014, BY ALI WOLF

http://fox40.com/2014/11/02/lyft-driver-speaks-after-fellow-drivers-crash/


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

CHP Bulletin on the accident:

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/245320020?width=360


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> *Lyft's First Fatality: Passenger Dies In Crash Near Sacramento*
> 
> Ellen Huet
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...st-fatality-passenger-death-crash-sacramento/


Thanks for the link..there are a couple of good stories there.


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## UberXNinja (Jul 12, 2014)

I almost got t-boned by a huge pick-up truck that ran a red light Friday night in Sacramento as well. I had 3 passengers in the car. It was pretty ****ing scary. Point is this was a tragic accident and it could've happened to anyone.


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## UberXNinja (Jul 12, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> *Lyft Driver Speaks after Fellow Driver's Crash*
> POSTED 11:27 PM, NOVEMBER 2, 2014, BY ALI WOLF
> 
> http://fox40.com/2014/11/02/lyft-driver-speaks-after-fellow-drivers-crash/


The CHP officer said he was going too fast in those weather conditions, which is true, but I've had passengers complain about me driving below the speed limit on the freeway as well. They think if we drive slower they will get charged a lot more, but technically a few extra minutes does not make much of a difference on the fare.

It's a pain in the ass to find a balance, especially with drunk assholes and cheapskates, but safety should always take priority.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

UberXNinja said:


> I almost got t-boned by a huge pick-up truck that ran a red light Friday night in Sacramento as well. I had 3 passengers in the car. It was pretty ****ing scary. Point is this was a tragic accident and it could've happened to anyone.


Scary


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

hangarcat said:


> Yeah, poor Uber sucka. His victim's life is OVER jerk!


Yes, this is sadly true. Someone did die tragically and unfortunately everyone involved are now victims as well (as I posted earlier).
Now, as far as your manners are concerned....FOAD you tool.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> *Lyft's First Fatality: Passenger Dies In Crash Near Sacramento*
> 
> Ellen Huet
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...st-fatality-passenger-death-crash-sacramento/


So the accident involved Lyft and NOT Uber???


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> so wait someone spin this as a UBER driver when it was in fact a Lyft driver?


In the original news report, the victim's father apparently mis-spoke and said Uber, when it looks as if it was actually Lyft.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> In the original news report, the victim's father apparently mis-spoke and said Uber, when it looks as if it was actually Lyft.


I think we're at the point where all rides are referred to as UberX. Kinda like how all tissues are Kleenex, and like how no one says "hang on, let me Bing that for you."


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, let's see. I was on the app for 16 hours straight (so I could make my less than minimum wage net,) slept for 4 1/2 hours before taking the family car to church and had an accident on the way. Nope, that sure didn't have any bearing on my personal auto insurance coverage did it?


That shouldn't have any more bearing on your personal auto insurance than if you worked any other job for 16 hours straight and slept 4½ hours.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

mp775 said:


> That shouldn't have any more bearing on your personal auto insurance than if you worked any other job for 16 hours straight and slept 4½ hours.


Insurance companies price insurance rates higher for drivers who drive more frequently for accident statistic reasons. It increases the odds of having one.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

Picture this: Two left turn lanes exiting an office complex sitting at redlight. Large pickup truck and I are first in line at this redlight. The pickup truck is on my left and completely obstructs any view of oncoming traffic from my left. The light turns green, but the large pickup truck doesn't move... maybe distracted? 
I choose not to move out until I can see any oncoming traffic even though light has turned green. An HUGE dump truck flies by. The Dump truck was going way above speed limit and obviously to large and heavy to stop for his redlight.
God only knows what choice I would have made if someone had been behind me honking.
Speaking of honking, I use my horn only to avoid an accident. I might tap it if someone is obviously oblivious that a light has changed...but even then, I'm very patient. I reserve honking for serious business..never to express my aingst. Good thing, lol, I'd be bloody honking all the damn time lol.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

Drivers should assume other drivers will go thru stop signs and red lights. And on one way streets there is always a bozo going the wrong way. There are no real surprises on on the streets. If you drive long enough you will see all these situations over and over again. I only get surprised when I see cabbies drive down DC city sidewalk to get from one driveway entrance to the other.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

uberdc/Virginia said:


> Drivers should assume other drivers will go thru stop signs and red lights. And on one way streets there is always a bozo going the wrong way. There are no real surprises on on the streets. If you drive long enough you will see all these situations over and over again. I only get surprised when I see cabbies drive down DC city sidewalk to get from one driveway entrance to the other.


LOL


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

At the semi circle driveways at hotels, to many cars pile up at the entrance, so cabbies will not bother going into the hotel driveway, the cabbies will drive Down the sidewalk to the driveway exit and either leave or pick up a passenger. As a pedestrian I am like WTF, somebody is driving towards me on the sidewalk. An uber might be a safer option these days.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> CHP Bulletin on the accident:
> 
> https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/245320020?width=360


chilling to read what happened.

driving 60 mph in a 65 zone is SPEEDING if it is raining heavily.

"no faster than the conditions allow" please don't speed especially in poor visibility people, the two second rule is your friend.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

That is pretty intense to read. I would not want to be in the middle lane of a freeway, in the rain, trying to push my car off to the side, and then have my car hit again by other drivers.


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## CarGuy (Oct 4, 2014)

uberdc/Virginia said:


> Drivers should assume other drivers will go thru stop signs and red lights. And on one way streets there is always a bozo going the wrong way. There are no real surprises on on the streets. If you drive long enough you will see all these situations over and over again. I only get surprised when I see cabbies drive down DC city sidewalk to get from one driveway entrance to the other.


Very true, remember to check the tread life on your tires guys, make sure they are not below the wear bar. And as somebody who used to ride motorcycles, you learn to ride & drive very defensively.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

CarGuy said:


> Very true, remember to check the tread life on your tires guys, make sure they are not below the wear bar. And as somebody who used to ride motorcycles, you learn to ride & drive very defensively.


Also...makes perfect sense, but I never really thought about it 'til someone mentioned it. Never use cruise control when raining any amount. I doubt I ever did, which is probably why I never really thought about it. But I use my cruise control otherwise ALL THE TIME.


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

*Lyft Passenger's Death Raises Concerns About Insurance Coverage Of Ridesharing Services*
*http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014...t-insurance-coverage-of-ridesharing-services/*


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

And no mention whatsoever of insurance coverage for the "Other Dude in the Car", the Driver!


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## Sanjay (Oct 31, 2014)

*Fatal accident tests Lyft's $1 million insurance policy*
Carolyn Said

http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/Fatal-accident-tests-Lyft-s-1-million-5867623.php


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> And no mention whatsoever of insurance coverage for the "Other Dude in the Car", the Driver!


Also normal. Commercial policies typically have medical payments coverage for drivers, but it only applies when the driver is not within the scope of their job. When you're working, it would be worker's comp if you have that coverage, or nothing at all if you don't.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sanjay said:


> And no mention whatsoever of insurance coverage for the "Other Dude in the Car", the Driver!


Not at this point in the news media. I suspect that issue will surface soon enough when the personal auto insurance company get's dragged into the sure to come lawsuit.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

There will probably several insurance companies involved. If they find the first white car hit and run,that would be a primary insurance to go after. The second insurance company would be the guy stalled in the middle of the freeway. Then you have the Lyft drivers personal insurance and then there is the Lyft insurance. The dead victim might have a clause in his car insurance that might cover him even if he is in another car.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

uberdc/Virginia said:


> There will probably several insurance companies involved. If they find the first white car hit and run,that would be a primary insurance to go after. The second insurance company would be the guy stalled in the middle of the freeway. Then you have the Lyft drivers personal insurance and then there is the Lyft insurance. The dead victim might have a clause in his car insurance that might cover him even if he is in another car.


The uninsured/underinsured motorists coverage on the passenger's policy would potentially kick in if it's determined that the Lyft driver had no liability in this accident. Since the rider is 99% likely to have UM/UIM limits of $1 million or less, it would be equal to or less than Lyft's policy, and thus would not activate.

They will never find the hit and run driver, and likely will not bother to. The attorney will either attempt to prove that the Lyft driver was at fault and go after the $1 million limits, or attempt to prove that the unidentified vehicle was at fault and go after the $1 million UM limits.


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## hangarcat (Nov 2, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I am afraid that the driver's live may now also be ruined, at least financially (if not emotionally. His own insurance is probably not in force (worthless). Uber's "insurance" will now be put to the test BIG TIME. But it almost certainly will not cover his car, himself or his liability.


Shane Holland's life is OVER! Uber suckas better make cardboard signs and save your coffe cups. I will laugh when they crawl in the street instead of driving irresponsible uninsured death traps.


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## Jack Mason (Nov 4, 2014)

Pshhh... Uber is going to claim their a not a transportation company, Watch Nothing will happen to uber, just like all the accidents happened before. This is just one of them.


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## Scott Roe (Nov 6, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> I was told the livery exclusion keeps most if them (personal ins) from being at the table any longer than it takes to present their policy.


I happened to ask my agent what would happen if I drove for Uber and the instant response was "You would be CANCELLED!!!" Between that and the latest rate drop, I'm switching to Lyft.


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## Scott Roe (Nov 6, 2014)

Jack Mason said:


> Pshhh... Uber is going to claim their a not a transportation company, Watch Nothing will happen to uber, just like all the accidents happened before. This is just one of them.


One thing that may play into this is the Class Action Suit happening in California. If it's decided that drivers should be classified as employees, all bets are OFF!!!


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

You guys are substituting Lyft and Uber pretty liberally here. It was a pink mustache wearing Lyft driver, it will certainly have ramifications for both companies, but this one ain't Uber.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Scott Roe said:


> I happened to ask my agent what would happen if I drove for Uber and the instant response was "You would be CANCELLED!!!" Between that and the latest rate drop, I'm switching to Lyft.


Insurance companies see no difference between Uber/Lyft. You'd still get cancelled :-(


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I am afraid that the driver's live may now also be ruined, at least financially (if not emotionally. His own insurance is probably not in force (worthless). Uber's "insurance" will now be put to the test BIG TIME. But it almost certainly will not cover his car, himself or his liability.


They denied my claim (minor), and I wasn't about to turn it in on my personal insurance (I wasn't at fault, a vandalism claim while Ubering). I think we all know what the deal is. The driver gets all the responsibility for himself and his vehicle. Uber, and/or their insurance will pay for passengers, as well as any property damage an Uber vehicle may cause, but that's only because they know they couldn't get away with not paying. If they thought there was even a chance they could get away with it, I'm sure they wouldn't pay a penny to anyone, ever!

*UPDATE:* I'm sure you've all seen it, but the following is from Uber's Terms of Service.

THE COMPANY MAY INTRODUCE YOU TO THIRD PARTY TRANSPORTATION PROVIDERS FOR THE PURPOSES OF PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION. WE WILL NOT ASSESS THE SUITABILITY, LEGALITY OR ABILITY OF ANY THIRD PARTY TRANSPORTATION PROVIDERS AND YOU EXPRESSLY WAIVE AND RELEASE THE COMPANY FROM ANY AND ALL ANY LIABILITY, CLAIMS OR DAMAGES ARISING FROM OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE THIRD PARTY TRANSPORTATION PROVIDER.

I could have condensed that for them.

GIVE US YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION, THEN **** OFF!


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Scott Roe said:


> I happened to ask my agent what would happen if I drove for Uber and the instant response was "You would be CANCELLED!!!" Between that and the latest rate drop, I'm switching to Lyft.


Lyft doesn't provide primary during app on is most cities either, right?


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## jmlinden7 (Dec 12, 2014)

Elmoooy said:


> I agree with you, I cringe when I see 20 something year old driving for Uber.


Wait why? I'm in my 20's and I drive perfectly safe. No speeding, triple check all mirrors before changing lanes, no driving in bad weather, etc.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

jmlinden7 said:


> Wait why? I'm in my 20's and I drive perfectly safe. No speeding, triple check all mirrors before changing lanes, no driving in bad weather, etc.


Don't worry, these old fools start to cringe at everything as they age.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

jmlinden7 said:


> Wait why? I'm in my 20's and I drive perfectly safe. No speeding, triple check all mirrors before changing lanes, no driving in bad weather, etc.


Come on now, we all know you young whipper snappers are on that pot. I've heard it makes you see things, makes you believe you can fly, and if you eat a Hostess Twinkee while taking pot, it causes an orgasm in your mouth.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

i dont uber in any rain or snow. dry days only


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> This is a sad post. I know none of the facts. But this potentially could have been any of us. If this sad event did involve Uber, we will soon see what Uber (and their insurance policy) are made of.


^^^
Well.... not exactly 'soon'. 
People tend to forget that insurance companies are not there to 'pay off', but to keep their stockholders happy.


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