# Should cities help uber and lyft drivers earn min wage



## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Should cities help uber and lyft drivers earn min wage like in new York?


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Come vote


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Good thing for the drivers. Bad thing for rideshare because of more competition and less growth.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

RideshareDog said:


> Should cities help uber and lyft drivers earn min wage like in new York?


"Minimum"...that part.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

While I'd support a cap on the number of rideshare drivers on city streets, I do not support a "minimum wage" law for drivers. All a minimum wage law would do is cause a flood of new drivers signing up for "free money." You think things are bad now? Imagine how bad it would be if you had 2-3 times the number of drivers on the streets. Worse traffic + fewer runs = LESS money overall.


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## Wex (Feb 18, 2019)

If you're in a city and can't make at least $20 an hour after expenses then you're driving in the wrong market/times. reevaluate what you're doing.


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

They stopped hiring new drivers in nyc bc of that problem of having to pay their "employees"


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

i want to pay less taxes and have more cash in my pocket. imposing a minimum wage would make us employees then we are screwed. more taxes and less cash in my pocket! no thanks. i do uber BECAUSE i want more control over my life and more cash in my pockets. i dont want to earn LESS!


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

NotanEmployee said:


> i want to pay less taxes and have more cash in my pocket. imposing a minimum wage would make us employees then we are screwed. more taxes and less cash in my pocket! no thanks. i do uber BECAUSE i want more control over my life and more cash in my pockets. i dont want to earn LESS!


Well in Canada having an employer reduces your taxes. See here self employed people have to fork over a wopping 9.9% of their net income to the Canadian pension plan for me it was 3k for last year. If you were employed it would be 4.4 your employer would pay half of it.


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## eazycc (Apr 5, 2019)

IR12 said:


> "Minimum"...that part.


Minimum as in a floor. It can be vital because it's possible to zero out or make $5 an hour if you don't know what you are doing or if demand drops sharply.

However a minimum wage will likely kill incentives, trigger a cap on drivers, and/or a minimum performance standard with much lower tolerance on low acceptance/ cancelation rates. Imagine having to do 3 rides an hour or whatever metric they come up with to keep your slot in the market?

To me a minimum wage sounds like a good idea but it would likely hurt higher performing drivers


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

RideshareDog said:


> Should cities help uber and lyft drivers earn min wage like in new York?


Absolutely not! Who wants to suppress wages and make less money? That is the whole purpose of the minimum wage.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

RideshareDog said:


> Well in Canada having an employer reduces your taxes. See here self employed people have to fork over a wopping 9.9% of their net income to the Canadian pension plan for me it was 3k for last year. If you were employed it would be 4.4 your employer would pay half of it.


I certainly can't attest to that as I don't live there. That being said, uber does have different policies in different countries. Some countries pax pay the driver cash and drivers pay uber a fee.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

"Help" is the wrong word. For a city to "help" that implies they pay part of it. In NYC the city is "forcing" the minimum pay, not helping it.


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

eazycc said:


> Minimum as in a floor. It can be vital because *it's possible to zero out or make $5 an hour if you don't know what you are doing or if demand drops sharply.*


I fail to see the problem here.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

RideshareDog said:


> Well in Canada having an employer reduces your taxes. See here self employed people have to fork over a wopping 9.9% of their net income to the Canadian pension plan for me it was 3k for last year. If you were employed it would be 4.4 your employer would pay half of it.


The US does the same. If you are self employed you pay what would have been the employers part of your Social Security and Medicare taxes - PLUS your income tax.

I don't support trying to enforce a minimum hourly rate. We aren't employees and don't want to be. But taxi rates are regulated by the government - and precisely for the reasons we see now with Uber and Lyft - too many cars and too low earnings for drivers.


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## Mordred (Feb 3, 2018)

Stop factoring in the time that you're asleep in your car and everyone is making minimum wage.


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## UberDerrick (Apr 20, 2019)

By definition, if a company takes payment from customers then skim off a percentage before they pay the workers who provide the service to those customers, THEY ARE EMPLOYERS!

Law makers must pass a law that clearly defines what an employer is as stated above.

The only way to go around this law is to NOT take payment from customers but charge drivers a fee to use the app.

That way, drivers will become Uber customers and passengers will truly become the drivers' customers, as it should be!


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

If you drive in city and couldn't make minimum wage, quit driving Uber? Find a regular job in city and it wouldn't be so hard.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

UberDerrick said:


> By definition, if a company takes payment from customers then skim off a percentage before they pay the workers who provide the service to those customers, THEY ARE EMPLOYERS!


Incorrect.

I sold investments, mortgages, insurance products, and much much much more where the company collect the $$ and pays the IC a portion of the commission.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

UberDerrick said:


> By definition, if a company takes payment from customers then skim off a percentage before they pay the workers who provide the service to those customers, THEY ARE EMPLOYERS!


Based on that, a credit card processor would be every businesses employer


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

I think all the people trying to force rideshare to be a career should wake up "now!".

We are still in a great economy and the pros of rideshare are shrinking. Once we enter a recession(inevitably) the number of drivers will double.

Immediately get off your ass and get a real fking job, that pay enough to support a family. Good grief learn common sense.


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## Mordred (Feb 3, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I think all the people trying to force rideshare to be a career should wake up "now!".
> 
> We are still in a great economy and the pros of rideshare are shrinking. Once we enter a recession(inevitably) the number of drivers will double.
> 
> ...


I think full time drivers are addicted to the flexibility that uber provides. Real jobs have annoying things like time clocks, schedules, uniforms, dress codes, bosses, and coworkers... It's probably a good idea to to start looking for the next thing tho if you're full timing.. I don't know when robot cars are coming, but they're coming...


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Mordred said:


> I think full time drivers are addicted to the flexibility that uber provides. Real jobs have annoying things like time clocks, schedules, uniforms, dress codes, bosses, and coworkers... It's probably a good idea to to start looking for the next thing tho if you're full timing.. I don't know if when robot cars are coming, but they're coming...


Even if robo cars never come Uber will have to become profitable. Essentially halving driver pay and pulling out of some markets. This train is coming and the masses are laying on the tracks


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I would like to see a requirement enacted by the states that rideshare drivers must get at least 70% of the fare charged to the passenger (including any fees) if the rideshare driver is providing their own vehicle.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Even if robo cars never come Uber will have to become profitable. Essentially halving driver pay and pulling out of some markets. This train is coming and the masses are laying on the tracks


well actually whats way more likely to happen is ubers investors will get tired of feeding them money. especially when they see these self driving cars are having major difficulty getting passed regulators. without VC money rideshare is done for.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

RideshareDog said:


> well actually whats way more likely to happen is ubers investors will get tired of feeding them money. especially when they see these self driving cars are having major difficulty getting passed regulators. without VC money rideshare is done for.


When that day comes rideshare will have to swim or sink on its own merits.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> When that day comes rideshare will have to swim or sink on its own merits.


That day will be terrible for drivers as they won't use coupons instead will use the full price to compete with eachother


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

How are they going to help you? Get you out of bed in the morning? I do not want to be an employee. I did 17 trips Friday, half tank of gas and I made $279 in 8 hours.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Ssgcraig said:


> How are they going to help you? Get you out of bed in the morning? I do not want to be an employee. I did 17 trips Friday, half tank of gas and I made $279 in 8 hours.


And that is well and fine. Good for you. There are many drivers across this country that worked Uber or Lyft last Friday for 8 hours and did 4 trips and made less than $40 because Uber or Lyft did not have enough business to keep these drivers busy. Out of this $40 they had to pay for gas. 
The problem we have is that Lyft and Uber do not manage their business to have the proper number of drivers available for the amount of business they have. These minimum wage laws force Uber and Lyft to rightsize their driving staff so that it is a win win for everyone.

As an example, McDonalds does not over staff their locations so that there are more employees than are needed. The reason they do not over staff is because it costs them money for every employee so they are not willing to spend $1000 an hour for employees to sell $500 worth of hamburgers.

On the other hand, Lyft and Uber have no cost for the employees sitting around on call waiting for a ride. So they have no incentive to rightsize their staffing. For that reason, the NYC minimum wage was enacted. If Uber and Lyft had done this on their own then this mandated minimum wage would not have been necessary.


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## Mordred (Feb 3, 2018)

Bob Reynolds said:


> And that is well and fine. Good for you. There are many drivers across this country that worked Uber or Lyft last Friday for 8 hours and did 4 trips and made less than $40 because Uber or Lyft did not have enough business to keep these drivers busy. Out of this $40 they had to pay for gas.
> The problem we have is that Lyft and Uber do not manage their business to have the proper number of drivers available for the amount of business they have. These minimum wage laws force Uber and Lyft to rightsize their driving staff so that it is a win win for everyone.
> 
> As an example, McDonalds does not over staff their locations so that there are more employees than are needed. The reason they do not over staff is because it costs them money for every employee so they are not willing to spend $1000 an hour for employees to sell $500 worth of hamburgers.
> ...


That drivers stay out on the road even tho they're not getting rides is their fault. What uber is doing is no different than McDonald's. Except they aren't explicitly telling them to get off the clock when it's slow. They leave the choice to the driver. Those McDonald's workers have the choice to hang out in the lobby too after they get clocked out. That's essentially what uber drivers in slow markets are doing. If your market sucks just quit and find a better job.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

So you are saying there are too many drivers in your area? Supply and demand, business 101. If there is no business in your area, why are you driving for Uber? 

Again, this is a decision by people to drive for Uber. If you are sitting around for 8 hours with 4 trips, its time to find another job. Uber is market driven, if theres no market, there no money. Why do you think a city is going "help" with the market? Make Uber pay people to sit in thier cars to watch movies? Who made a career change to drive for Uber before testing it out where they live? Of course no one, there are no people that would make such a uninformed decision like that. 100% of people start part time and then decide that it is worth it to go full time. 

If a McDonalds is not busy, the manager is going to send people home to cut costs.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm torn on this one. The reason rideshare got where it is in my mind is because governments over regulated taxis so there weren't enough during high demand. Trying to get a cab on New Years eve here is impossible.

On the other hand, reading this board and seeing what's happened to the drivers over and over make a person think there should be more rideshare regulation, just better than what they did to the taxis.

But our gov has been so slow on this issue it's still not even legal here so here's hoping they'll get it right first try. They've certainly had enough time.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

VanGuy said:


> I'm torn on this one. The reason rideshare got where it is in my mind is because governments over regulated taxis so there weren't enough during high demand. Trying to get a cab on New Years eve here is impossible.
> 
> On the other hand, reading this board and seeing what's happened to the drivers over and over make a person think there should be more rideshare regulation, just better than what they did to the taxis.
> 
> But our gov has been so slow on this issue it's still not even legal here so here's hoping they'll get it right first try. They've certainly had enough time.


I was going to mention that, if there are only 50 people in your town and you have 15 Uber drivers, probably not a good career choice. Should the government inervene and say that town can only have 3 uber drivers? We don't want the taxi industry BS regulation.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Yeah, I'd just like to see a compromise between nothing and the boots on the ground get screwed by corp, and wow, we really ****ed that up, and the boots on the ground get screwed by gov.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

I look at government intervention like getting a loan from Tony Supranno. He is going to want points on that loan, the government is the same thing, they want thier cut.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Ssgcraig said:


> If a McDonalds is not busy, the manager is going to send people home to cut costs.


That's right. That is exactly what Lyft and Uber should be doing. Sending drivers off of the platform when there is no business (or not allowing them on the platform in the first place) The drivers do not know how much business Lyft and Uber has. Only Lyft and Uber know that. Lyft used to limit the number of the riders on the platform during a specific time and date. Drivers used to have to sign up for shifts in advance. Once those shifts were full then no more were allow on that shift. They stopped doing it. Maybe they need to go back to managing their business with the right number of drivers so that the minimum wage will not need to be mandatory and imposed by the government.

McDonalds does not let 1000 employees show up for a shift when they only need 15.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Bob Reynolds said:


> That's right. That is exactly what Lyft and Uber should be doing. Sending drivers off of the platform when there is no business (or not allowing them on the platform in the first place) The drivers do not know how much business Lyft and Uber has. Only Lyft and Uber know that. Lyft used to limit the number of the riders on the platform during a specific time and date. Drivers used to have to sign up for shifts in advance. Once those shifts were full then no more were allow on that shift. They stopped doing it. Maybe they need to go back to managing their business with the right number of drivers so that the minimum wage will not need to be mandatory and imposed by the government.
> 
> McDonalds does not let 1000 employees show up for a shift when they only need 15.


Lol I know how much demand lyft has 









and in Canada there is a min number of hours you have to pay your employees. Can't send them home and not pay them just cuz it's not busy.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Cities should do for U/L drivers what they have done for Taxis, set the minimum rate for the market they’re in.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

RideshareDog said:


> Lol I know how much demand lyft has
> View attachment 317907


So please tell us, from your chart, the following:

1. How many rides, per hour, Lyft will be providing this evening in your market?

2. How many drivers they will need to provide these rides in your market?

3. How many drivers are online right now to provide these rides in your market?


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Cities should do for U/L drivers what they have done for Taxis, set the minimum rate for the market they're in.


And cap. There are 80k lyft and Uber licenses given out in my market. That is plenty. #SorryItsfull



Bob Reynolds said:


> So please tell us from your chart the following:
> 
> 1. How many rides per hour Lyft will be providing this evening in your market?
> 
> ...


Okay as drivers of these apps you have to be a little understanding. They can't tell you those things cuz uber would use that data to better coordinate their promos or attack


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

RideshareDog said:


> Okay as drivers of these apps you have to be a little understanding. They can't tell you those things cuz uber would use that data to better coordinate their promos or attack


And that is exactly why Lyft and Uber should be managing the number of drivers they have online in each market.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> And that is exactly why Lyft and Uber should be managing the number of drivers they have online in each market.


Why would U/L want to monitor the number of drivers in any market, it cost them noting, drivers bare all the expense, take all the risk and Uber and Lyft laugh all the way to the bank.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

peteyvavs said:


> Why would U/L want to monitor the number of drivers in any market, it cost them noting, drivers bare all the expense, take all the risk and Uber and Lyft laugh all the way to the bank.


So they won't be forced to comply with mandatory minimum wage laws.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Reality is we are all working in a sea of desperate people. These people will work no matter how low it goes no matter how low demand is. It's rediculous how many drivers are out in my city at 12am when demand is at its lowest. This is why they are reducing our rates. To see how low before people stop and they are seeing the bar is very low.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> That's right. That is exactly what Lyft and Uber should be doing. Sending drivers off of the platform when there is no business (or not allowing them on the platform in the first place) The drivers do not know how much business Lyft and Uber has. Only Lyft and Uber know that. Lyft used to limit the number of the riders on the platform during a specific time and date. Drivers used to have to sign up for shifts in advance. Once those shifts were full then no more were allow on that shift. They stopped doing it. Maybe they need to go back to managing their business with the right number of drivers so that the minimum wage will not need to be mandatory and imposed by the government.
> 
> McDonalds does not let 1000 employees show up for a shift when they only need 15.


That's not going to work. It's not Amazon Flex. If there are too many drivers in your area, time to move on.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Ssgcraig said:


> That's not going to work. It's not Amazon Flex. If there are too many drivers in your area, time to move on.


Moving on is not going to work either. That just encourages Lyft and Uber to continue doing the same thing and getting the same results. This is damaging to the drivers, the competitors and the government.


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Wex said:


> If you're in a city and can't make at least $20 an hour after expenses then you're driving in the wrong market/times. reevaluate what you're doing.


I hate to break it to you but not all cities are created equal in terms of demand/supply/pay. The reply shows a significant level of myopic ignorance. I have been doing this for nearly 3 years (in the city), know the cities, know the ebbs and flows of demand, and hope to make, before expenses, 10-12 per hour on the busiest days. I don't, of course, drive around drunk millennials nor hood rats as I have a bit of integrity.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

nouberipo said:


> I hate to break it to you but not all cities are created equal in terms of demand/supply/pay. The reply shows a significant level of myopic ignorance. I have been doing this for nearly 3 years (in the city), know the cities, know the ebbs and flows of demand, and hope to make, before expenses, 10-12 per hour on the busiest days. I don't, of course, drive around drunk millennials nor hood rats as I have a bit of integrity.


You are correct, some places have no demand, so why be an Uber driver in that market and expect to make a living?


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> Reality is we are all working in a sea of desperate people. These people will work no matter how low it goes no matter how low demand is. It's rediculous how many drivers are out in my city at 12am when demand is at its lowest. This is why they are reducing our rates. To see how low before people stop and they are seeing the bar is very low.


pretty soon Uber will start charging drivers to drive for them and I am sure there will still be uneducated deplorables somehow justifying that it is ok. Although I am not a fan of defending the uneducated. as a society we still need to watch out for them at some minimum level. Uber/Lyft have lowered the bar and will keep lowering the bar.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

nouberipo said:


> pretty soon Uber will start charging drivers to drive for them and I am sure there will still be uneducated deplorables somehow justifying that it is ok. Although I am not a fan of defending the uneducated. as a society we still need to watch out for them at some minimum level. Uber/Lyft have lowered the bar and will keep lowering the bar.


uneducated deplorables who are these people? Describe them for us


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> How are they going to help you? Get you out of bed in the morning? I do not want to be an employee. I did 17 trips Friday, half tank of gas and I made $279 in 8 hours.


If you were an employee they would take part of your money and give it to the drivers who are less efficient.


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## Drizzle (Jan 1, 2018)

If the government csn tell us what we can and cannot do to support our family they should tell predatory companies to stop exploiting labor.

But the government is getting paid off by these companies. So both of em are as corrupt as it comes.



NotanEmployee said:


> Based on that, a credit card processor would be every businesses employer


I think it has a lot to do with the percentage taken. If you take 2.5% you are a processor if you take 85% its hard to argue you are not employing people.


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