# We need to stop pretending lyft is more ethical



## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

Wanted to make a point of saying many the things that Uber is being sued for with respect to drivers, Lyft is doing the exact same thing. Or worse 

I had started noticing that many of cancelled rides that eclipsed 5 minutes were not being paid . So one week I started recording screen shots. 

So i called in and explained my concerns. The guy I spoke with very confidently and elaborately explained how the system tracks everything you do. And that sometimes the driver may perceive he deserves fee but the computer in all its awesomeness knows the actual truth. 

"Ok" I said. Let's look at example A. I drove 12 minutes to Orinda and the women cancelled last minute when I arrived. How come i didnt get paid?" The very honest and bright guy I was talking to paused a second. "Oh yeah. Looks like we missed that one. Huh." To his credit, he sent me the five bucks.

So l was like let's do example b. And once again he saw i was correct but this time he said you only get the bonus if they don't show up 5 min after you arrive. 

That was a blatant lie and/or misunderstanding of the policy. That would mean, if you drove 20 min to reach some place and they canceled once you got there you would get nothing. 

The overall point is I gave them 2 examples of calls that were cancelled and I should have received a fees. They were 0-2.

And its occurred a few times after also. And no fee for me. But because they are so hard to reach and inconsistent in their response times I naturally forget to follow up on all of them.

This is their modus operandi. 5 bucks here, add 10 bucks to rental, eliminate 1 cancel repay-back each week we save 70k a year.

don't let them get away with it. I gave them benefit of doubt cause I wanted them to do well and believed we were all rowing the boat in the same direction. 

Guess what? 

It's been about 2 months since all those folks jumped ship from uber to Lyft. Now lyft thinks they don't have to try hard and immediately revert to the uber playbook. Uber maybe spending tons on cash on robots but lyft is spending iton Shaquille, and Justin. 

The safety amp they supposedly spent so much time on will occasionally show a different color than what it informed pax. Hence, the safety aspect is kinda out the window. 

"Trust and safety" no. more like "Encourage Fraud and Market Everything in Color Pink"

Think about that with the Amps. Think about how messed up that is. They introduced this supposed new technology in market that will help drivers and riders safely find each other. However, the colors often will not match. And the driver was given no indication of what is going on with device or what color the pax was told. 

Basically making a difficult situation even more confusing. And opening up the door even wider for those intending harm to pax. They are essentially less creepy looking mustaches. No trust and no safety. "Arrogance, poor data analysis, and disregard for safety of pax and driver" team.

Have you ever wondered what background check Trust and safety do on pax? What about verifying identify with a picture of government ID?

Many sites do this . They will have you upload front and back of id. For example, Instagram and Facebook do this because they have concern for those that use their platform. They know someone could pretend to be someone else and ultimately do a lot of damage to someone's reputation. 

now for lyft, as a pax you could be living in the most dangerous part of Oakland or Richmond, and have a violent history of abusing women, short men, tall men, Chinese people, and Arabs. You could literally use lyft to summon your prey to you. 

Make up fake name, buy prepaid card or iTunes card, a get busy assaulting them. Then walk away consequence free.

As drivers, we could get lucky and be found at the bottom of a ditch or really lucky and have our car jackers let's us live as a reward for emptying our our bank accounts.

If you are in need of a free ride, why not accuse our friendly lyft driver of erratic driver or perhaps rape. 

lyft has not neglected us. They have knowingly set us up for to be sources of revenue for the city, state, pax, and now the criminal populations

that's why people can assault, murder, carjack, etc and get away completely free. 

Have you seen or heard one change of procedure aimed at increasing our safety?

They are acting like a pimp out of Sacramento, brainwashing and then selling us out to get robbed, taken advantage of financially, assaulted and killed.


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

They aren't, but it sure feels good to make them look like they are, specially when so many shills pass the word to Uber, it's a way to keep Uber in line.


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## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

Im telling you though as someone who had the same exact position as you , we have created an self righteous Monster who not only lacks ethics but also the skill, work ethic, data analysis skills, financial resources of a leader.

Worst of they are held to such low standards for simply not being uber which translates into low pay, sketchy tactics and unsafe working environments.

I think travis is as much of a royal douchbag as anyone but lets be careful that we are not creating something far worse


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Jerry Adams said:


> Im telling though as someone who had the exact same position, we have created an self righteous Monster who not only lacks ethnics but also the skill, work ethic, data analysis skills, financial resource of a leaders.
> 
> Worst of they are hello to such low standard for simply not being uber which translates into low pay, sketchy tactics and unsafe working environments.
> 
> I think travis is as much of a royal douchbag as anyone but let me be careful that we are not creating something far worse


So far from Lyft, any shit I complain I get compensated, be it bad rate or problems with a rider, Uber does the same as soon as threaten them though, Lyft is just humans making sense out of situations, if I have a single complain about them... it's the fact they have uber's left overs which are snowflakes that downrate for anything.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Too long couldn't read all of it but I do think Lyft is a little better for the driver than Uber:

1. They allow tips in the app.
2. They do not pocket part of the cancel fee when we do get it as Uber shamelessly does.

Not to say that I think Lyft is ethical. They are just slightly less scummy in some ways than Uber.


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## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

Well ---I hear you. but my sense is give it some time and you will see far worse than lyft. Wait till you get one of their surprise deactivations


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

I don't consider lyft to be unethical: Lyft is a good bit better in my opinion. Mostly because I get paid better with tips and a slightly better cut, but here's my issues with lyft.
1. They have the same upfront price scam as uber and take no heat for it.
2. They payout low amounts, only slightly better then uber. 
3. They still can be threatening via emails if you don't accept rides etc and they have a larger insurance deductible then uber and have strict driver sign up policies. I.E mentor can flunk you for having a a little trash in the car or a dent in the door etc.


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Jerry Adams said:


> Well ---I hear you. but my sense is give it some time and you will see far worse than lyft. Wait till you get one of their surprise deactivations


That's fine, they only destroy themselves.

I made a post about why uber has and will always have more clients than them.


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## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

Lyft out and out steals the fee. Beleive me this happening. I have caught them 2 times and many others have. Way worse than uber

QUOTE="touberornottouber, post: 2552431, member: 68742"]Too long couldn't read all of it but I do think Lyft is a little better for the driver than Uber:

1. They allow tips in the app.
2. They do not pocket part of the cancel fee when we do get it as Uber shamelessly does.

Not to say that I think Lyft is ethical. They are just slightly less scummy in some ways than Uber.[/QUOTE]

Lydt


touberornottouber said:


> Too long couldn't read all of it but I do think Lyft is a little better for the driver than Uber:
> 
> 1. They allow tips in the app.
> 2. They do not pocket part of the cancel fee when we do get it as Uber shamelessly does.
> ...


All i ask is that you don't give them credit simply because uber is dl douchbaggy. I would add postmates and instacart as even worse than uber.

It's not uber per say but the business model and lack of regulations

If you drive for lyft, do me a favor. Log all you cancelled rides for the next two weeks. Make sure to keep track of all rides in which 5 min have passed since initial call.

After two weeks see how many times you got paid out. Come back and then write me a thank you note for the 15-35 bucks I probabley earned you.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Jerry Adams said:


> If you drive for lyft, do me a favor. Log all you cancelled rides for the next two weeks. Make sure to keep track of all rides in which 5 min have passed since initial call.
> 
> After two weeks see how many times you got paid out. Come back and then write me a thank you note for the 15-35 bucks I probabley earned you.


Will do. I think there are other stipulations too though such as over 5 minutes and you need to be on time or within 5 minutes from the customer. So far I haven't caught them cheating me out of cancels. I was amazed also when I got the full $5 rather than the mere $3.75 Uber gives me.

As far as cancels what annoys me more is that I think we should get something for every cancel past say 30 seconds. I think too many passengers take advantage of the cancel system and with so many drivers out there the problem gets worse as the passengers can cancel for petty reasons knowing there are 5 other drivers there within three blocks. Sometimes I feel that passengers are canceling for things like my being stopped at a stop light for three minutes, etc.


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## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

Agreed. But when we asses pax behavior we must acknowledge the role lyft and uber play in rewarding bad behavior. They essentially reward riders for making accusations against us--true or false. 

They have created a game for customers


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## SurgeSurferSD (Nov 15, 2016)

Jerry Adams said:


> asses pax behavior


 Lol


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## harry smith (Apr 30, 2017)

LYFT s a company that doesn't care about the drivers or the passengers, even if you look at like a business. I don't think they care about saturating the market because they make the same price, although 1 ping for 25 drivers is still only 1 ping. All they are doing is collecting information for new drivers and making profit from selling data. They have all your information. They are not concerned about the passenger getting a ride in 1 minute, they put every driver in algorythms that criss cross the playi.g field. Driver A can drive 10 minutes to pick up a base fare because the algorithm mathematically is fixed to make PDB harder to get. The situation is dire for customer service and people have been complaining extensively. Drivers are making less and drivers are working more during peak hours, making surges obsolete. As a company LYFT has no concern for customers or drivers, only profit. A machine


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## FrankLStanton (Oct 18, 2016)

Lyft lost my respect when they started to include tips in their guarantees. Unconscionable!


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## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

Lyft needs to go down. I hate that they benefits from all the bad uber press when they do the same. 

Wish sidecar was around ...


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## Talcire (May 18, 2016)

Lag Monkey said:


> I don't consider lyft to be unethical: Lyft is a good bit better in my opinion. Mostly because I get paid better with tips and a slightly better cut, but here's my issues with lyft.
> 1. They have the same upfront price scam as uber and take no heat for it.
> 2. They payout low amounts, only slightly better then uber.
> 3. They still can be threatening via emails if you don't accept rides etc and they have a larger insurance deductible then uber and have strict driver sign up policies. I.E mentor can flunk you for having a a little trash in the car or a dent in the door etc.


Mentor? No such thing.


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## DeplorableDonald (Feb 16, 2017)

Lyft is worse than Uber in many respects. Lyft holds drivers in disdain. When I started Uber I also tried Lyft but never was as busy as Uber.

Things that piss me off about Lyft, in no particular order:

* Lyft non-threatening threat emails. When I am in a PT zone and vet 15 minutes away non-surge ping I let them expire, then I get the 'our community needs you' bullshit. Your community? Community implies a symbiotic relationship. This isn't community it's a one way relationship.

* Lyft's constant annoying texts. 'Lyft here. It's raining. Demand should be high.' Nothing about incentives/bonuses etc. Just milktoast 'go drive, PLEASE, go drive' texts. To Uber's credit their texts are usually about Boost/Quest.

* 90% acceptance rate requirements for incentives. Really? That's ridiculous. Even Uber only requires 80%. Especially with the ridiculous distance pings. With all the cars out there, *no one else* is closer than me, 27 minutes away from Shonita for her base rate Line ride? I'm supposed to lose money on the majority of rides to get your paltry bonuses? Not happening.

* Tips are counted in AHG. As Trump Economics eloquently stated tips actually hurt you in some respects.

* Until very recently not showing PT in request. This just shows their disdain for drivers.

* Driver Support. While Uber has Rohit and the gang which sucks badly, at least Rohit and the gang are quick responders. Granted it's usually gibberish but it's fast gibberish. Lyft's Driver Support for me has always been painfully slow. I have gotten responses weeks later. Also is it me, or does Lyft, whether it's Driver Support or their passive aggressive emails, generally take the tone of a second grade teacher? They seem to have very patronizing tone.

There's more but I need to go make money at my real gig.


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## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

Lyft has a $2500 insurance deductible. Uber has $1000 deductible. That is all I need to know when choosing the company I drive for.


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## pvtandrewmalone (Oct 2, 2016)

Add two more annoying things about Lyft to the list.

1. The app "auto accepts" if your hand is on the screen when a ping comes through, even if you are doing something unrelated to Lyft and can't move your hand fast enough.

2. They send their passive aggressive emails and texts when too many _passengers_ cancel, as if that's your fault. Always starting with "Lyft Here!..We've noticed that..." Buzz off...I'm an independent contractor.


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

One constant I'm picking up on is Lyft Drivers hate those passive aggressive emails lyft algorithms all to quickly send out. They need to stop completely. Zero Zip. They can send an email out for high driver cancellations or calling and asking PAX to cancel. That seems fair but get ride of not accepting ride request emails NOW. Also lyft ping from over 10mins away shouldn't effect your acceptance rate if decide not to take it.


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## pvtandrewmalone (Oct 2, 2016)

Even calling paxs to cancel should not be something they harass us about. At least until they fix the auto-accept problem with their app.

What ethical company *harasses* its independent contractors like this (see attached)? Their own policy says you can decline (not "miss") any request you don't want.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

pvtandrewmalone said:


> Add two more annoying things about Lyft to the list.
> 
> 1. The app "auto accepts" if your hand is on the screen when a ping comes through, even if you are doing something unrelated to Lyft and can't move your hand fast enough.
> 
> 2. They send their passive aggressive emails and texts when too many _passengers_ cancel, as if that's your fault. Always starting with "Lyft Here!..We've noticed that..." Buzz off...I'm an independent contractor.


Independent contractor. How are you liking the rates you've set?


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## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

When a pax stained my seat with leftover food they told me to pound sand,even with three pictures of the damage.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Jerry Adams said:


> The safety amp they supposedly spent so much time on will occasionally show a different color than what it informed pax.


Amp solves a problem that doesn't exist. All pax have to do is check the license plate and then get in the damn car.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

harry smith said:


> LYFT s a company that doesn't care about the drivers or the passengers, even if you look at like a business. I don't think they care about saturating the market because they make the same price, although 1 ping for 25 drivers is still only 1 ping. All they are doing is collecting information for new drivers and making profit from selling data. They have all your information. They are not concerned about the passenger getting a ride in 1 minute, they put every driver in algorythms that criss cross the playi.g field. Driver A can drive 10 minutes to pick up a base fare because the algorithm mathematically is fixed to make PDB harder to get. The situation is dire for customer service and people have been complaining extensively. Drivers are making less and drivers are working more during peak hours, making surges obsolete. As a company LYFT has no concern for customers or drivers, only profit. A machine


 Any smart driver know lyft is bullshit.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Jerry - in Example "B" in your original post, did you cancel, or did they?


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## Jerry Adams (Jun 4, 2017)

The pax cancelled. I never cancel


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

Lyft's cancellation fee is a scam. When they say 10 minutes to pick up passenger it's more than that on google or waze. Most often the eta given to the passengers are including the toll roads but lyft don't want pay you tolls. You can drive 30+ minutes and the passenger can cancel saying you went over the eta. Then you won't get the fee. Then you will have to write them an email with the details but the cancelled trip never shows up in the app. It's a scam .


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## DeplorableDonald (Feb 16, 2017)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Lyft has a $2500 insurance deductible. Uber has $1000 deductible. That is all I need to know when choosing the company I drive for.


I forgot to add that


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## Hagong (Jan 17, 2017)

Jerry Adams said:


> Im telling you though as someone who had the same exact position as you , we have created an self righteous Monster who not only lacks ethics but also the skill, work ethic, data analysis skills, financial resources of a leader.
> 
> Worst of they are held to such low standards for simply not being uber which translates into low pay, sketchy tactics and unsafe working environments.
> 
> I think travis is as much of a royal douchbag as anyone but lets be careful that we are not creating something far worse


But, but, but Lyft allows in-app tipping!


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## RideshareSpectrum (May 12, 2017)

Forums>Options>Lyft>
*#We need to stop pretending lyft is more ethical.."*
Who's pretending? Lyfts business practices are so unbelievably underhanded, their doublespeak so claculated, so misleading and deliberate, their community so self righteous and pretentious, their motives so utterly transparent and their tone at once insulting and infuriatingly condescending to their only source of revenue (us drivers) that Im seriously considering driving for Uber. I'd prefer to deal with their culture driven epic ******douchebaggery than fake ass, shady wolves in pink sheep faux fur clothing any longer.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Lyft has REALLY stepped up its nefarious-ness game.

1. PDB requirements, through "peak hours" spread out thin and and in small clusters, DESIGNED to wear you out in hopes you try but tire out and fail (TRYING to make you FALL ASLEEP --' dangerous & unethical much???)

2. Different offers for different drivers

3. "Trip swaps", which in Lyft internal literature are actually called "BAILOUTS" --- forcing a trip that got cancelled on and/or kicked out of another Lyft on an unsuspecting Lyft driver that:
A) did NOT accept it
B) may well be heading to pick up a faaaaaar more lucrative call (Plus / Premier / higher PT% rate)

4. "Added to queue" tomfoolery: 'separate' rides masquerading as Lyft Line extensions that mess up your guarantees/PDB hours/etc. (by counting against a different hour), what SHOULD be Lyft Line extensions coming in as a "separate queued line" for those same reasons, etc. ...and all that made to LOOK like you actually pulled off that last line extension to finish up said peak hour or guarantee or managed to get it to count in the previous week at 5am on monday....

5. Ping starvation: if you're close to your bonuses but time is ANYWHERE neae running out, expect them to try to keep you up till the very last second....AND try to leave you one ride short

6. Lying to pax AND drivers: I've seen pax already in my car being told that I cancelled on them and that Lyft found them another driver....when I did NO SUCH THING

7. Hiding pax ratings on stacked pings (and the whole auto-accept nature of said stacked pings)

8. Feeding "bailouts" to Destination Filter users IGNORING & OVERRIDING said filter, both when on-call and simply sending bailout pings masquerading as DF calls.

9. Passive-aggressive threats through app pop-ups, emails, and texts, hinting that certain behaviours MIGHT be held against you....but not, legally speaking, actually saying that.

10. General harassment via text message

11. "Peak" hours designed to encourage illegal behaviour --- weekday daytime "peaks" clearly tied to school bells, when just about nobody except minors could be out there wanting rides



elelegido said:


> Amp solves a problem that doesn't exist. All pax have to do is check the license plate and then get in the damn car.


You HAVE front license plates?

What for, angling for a camera ticket??


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## Puffballs (Jun 2, 2017)

Adieu said:


> Lyft has REALLY stepped up its nefarious-ness game.
> 
> 1. PDB requirements, through "peak hours" spread out thin and and in small clusters, DESIGNED to wear you out in hopes you try but tire out and fail (TRYING to make you FALL ASLEEP --' dangerous & unethical much???)
> 
> ...


Amen to that!


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Jerry Adams said:


> The pax cancelled. I never cancel


Once had a pax with a legit service animal. Helped her load up & get in the car, once we were all settled, the app said she cancelled & hers said I cancelled. Neither one of us was messing with our phones. Tried a few times to before we rematched.

#lyft♡


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Lyft has a $2500 insurance deductible. Uber has $1000 deductible. That is all I need to know when choosing the company I drive for.


This right here. That's economic suicide for a lot of their drivers, and they know it.

Also, Uber doesn't try to send me 20 minutes into the ghetto to pick up a drug dealer named "Cheez", then berate me for cancelling or ignoring that BS.


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## UberGirlBoss (Mar 29, 2017)

Jerry Adams said:


> Wanted to make a point of saying many the things that Uber is being sued for with respect to drivers, Lyft is doing the exact same thing. Or worse
> 
> I had started noticing that many of cancelled rides that eclipsed 5 minutes were not being paid . So one week I started recording screen shots.
> 
> ...


This is all very true.

Including the part about the pax on Lyft. I have been fearful many times with Lyft pax. Never with an uber pax. And I've come to realize this is because Lyft allows pax to sign up and pay with prepaid cards and uber does not. You must have an actual bank card to open an uber account. Not just walk into a Walmart and buy a greendot prepaid card.

I've actually had a few pax tell they have just gotten out of jail. I rather work with uber any other day unless it is a slow day for me.


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## luvgurl22 (Jul 5, 2016)

Jerry Adams said:


> Wanted to make a point of saying many the things that Uber is being sued for with respect to drivers, Lyft is doing the exact same thing. Or worse
> 
> I had started noticing that many of cancelled rides that eclipsed 5 minutes were not being paid . So one week I started recording screen shots.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club.What took you so long? :|


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## old geezer (Feb 1, 2016)

Jerry Adams said:


> Wanted to make a point of saying many the things that Uber is being sued for with respect to drivers, Lyft is doing the exact same thing. Or worse
> 
> I had started noticing that many of cancelled rides that eclipsed 5 minutes were not being paid . So one week I started recording screen shots.
> 
> ...


Same thing happened to me. Drove over the 5 minute time limit and didn't get paid. So I sent Lyft support an e mail. No response. Sent them another one they said they never received my first one. Ha.. they wanted me to send them proof of the timing of the trip. Then when I sent them another e mail noting the day and time I got a response that was totally weird and non responsive. So I let them know that I was very dissapointed in their driver support. This went on for 6 e mails. I dogged them and they finally gave me my five bucks. Lucky for me I am retired and just wanted to make a point for no one has the time to do this. I think they just hope you will give up and go away. Nasty company.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

elelegido said:


> Amp solves a problem that doesn't exist. All pax have to do is check the license plate and then get in the damn car.


Front license plate = begging for a ticket in the mail

Nowadays they just post some copling with a digital camera in illegal-pickup-traps near events, etc.

They don't bother writing them on the spot


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