# Flex Prime Now = $7.15 per hour



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

After some recent driving and fishing with Flex Prime Now, I am wondering if it is really that good. When factoring in all the time and expenses, it seems to equate to about $10 per hour. Although, it probably beats Uber, Lyft, Postmates, and others - especially at a high number of hours per week.

Here are some rough numbers I've come up with on Flex with Prime Now:

Assumptions (full-time on a daily basis):
$30 per block hour including tips and hourly ($18 per hour plus $12 tips).
Total time spent fishing, driving, and at warehouse per day: 12 hours.
Average # of hours in actual paid blocks per day: 7 paid block hours.
Miles driving per day to/from warehouse, blocks, and return trips: 180 miles
Reduce gross due to taxes, risk of accidents, tickets, no workers comp, etc: 10% of gross
Full Operating Cost Per Mile: .30 (this is harder on the car even compared to uber - the piper will eventually need to be paid for it)

Daily gross: $210 (7 block hours x $30)
- Daily miles: - $54 (180 x .30 per mile full operating costs)
- Driving risk / taxes / no benefits: - $21
Net Profit: $135

Straight Time Hourly Rate: $11.25 ($135 /12 hours)

Comparable Rate if paid overtime: $9.65 ($9.65 x 8 = $77 plus time and half at 14.50 x 4 = $58. Total = $135)

3/19/17 Update: Revised to $7.15 per hour. See post below with the revision based on the recent Amazon Flex pay decrease done by applying some tips toward the $18 per hour:
https://uberpeople.net/threads/flex-prime-now-9-65-per-hour.142708/page-2#post-2238614


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## nighthawk398 (Jul 21, 2015)

Wow you should get a job as a data analysis


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## jaywaynedubya (Feb 17, 2015)

Yep, Amazon knows they are paying flex drivers 2x to 3x less than actual contractors (who have sub contractors) and employees , respectively. Make sure you are not being taken advantage of.


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## mke (Dec 19, 2016)

grams777 said:


> After some recent driving and fishing with Flex Prime Now, I am wondering if it is really that good. When factoring in all the time and expenses, it seems to equate to about $10 per hour. Although, it probably beats Uber, Lyft, Postmates, and others - especially at a high number of hours per week.
> 
> Here are some rough numbers I've come up with on Flex with Prime Now:
> 
> ...


I math is a little off compared to my personal experience, but it depends on where you are, what you do and how much you want to do it.

For me I only work a few shifts a week max of 5.

I make $18 an hour I logostics. I know the days and times when shifts come available, and we usually have plenty here. I never gave to spend more then 45 minutes to fish for a shift and that's while i'm cooking dinner/eating breakfest

I have never gone over 25 miles on a shift even with a warehouse return.

I on average finish an hour early, though sometimes have gone a bit over.

I have a 14 year old car with over 100,000 miles, mileage cost me very little I depreciation, and I put very little miles on otherwise so it doesn't affect my maintenance too much, could put me up a insurance rate.

I still have to pay the extra taxes on my earnings, but I can still round it out to close to $15-16 an hour. Better then most part time Jobs and gives me flexibility that I need with having kids and not knowing schedule till that day.

It all depends on your circumstances, everything you bring up is worth considering before you do it, but if you treat it like a gig and not a full time job you can do all right with Amazon.


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## Lonesoldierx7 (Oct 27, 2016)

You spend 5 hours fishing for blocks lol. That's your problem. Only go to the warehouse if you actually get shifts the day before. Don't spend time there if you're not getting paid. 

I spend on average 30 seconds fishing for 2 hr blocks. So in total, that's about 1.5-2 minutes out of my day. If you just worked those 7 hrs without fishing for 5 hours, you would have gotten at least $19 an hr. 

Remember, don't treat this as a full time job because it never will be.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

I would concede it's no longer the great gig it once was. Used to be you could get two 4 hour blocks in one day for 144 bucks like clock work only making sixty stops a day, those days are long gone but it's still a decent gig. 

Especially if you deliver at a time of day when rideshare is pretty dead.

It's a decent gig and when it "surges" with a price increase of 25/hr block it's nice but that rarely happens.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Lonesoldierx7 said:


> You spend 5 hours fishing for blocks lol. That's your problem. Only go to the warehouse if you actually get shifts the day before. Don't spend time there if you're not getting paid.
> 
> I spend on average 30 seconds fishing for 2 hr blocks. So in total, that's about 1.5-2 minutes out of my day. If you just worked those 7 hrs without fishing for 5 hours, you would have gotten at least $19 an hr.
> 
> Remember, don't treat this as a full time job because it never will be.


The analysis I outlined is based on what I see at least about 20 + other people trying to do every day at our warehouse. I tried it briefly to see how it worked out. I'm not saying it should be treated as a full time job - I'm only showing what the reality of attempting to do so means here.

There are a few things which may be different at my location:

- You can't just spend 30 seconds fishing for a 2 hour block. There's no way that comes close to working here. If you spend 30 seconds fishing here you will get no blocks. Each block will disappear within 200 milliseconds or less when it is released at various somewhat random times (with some general patterns) throughout the day from 6 am to 9 pm. Everyone I see here doing near 40 hours a week in blocks spends about 12+ hours per day fishing, at the warehouse, or driving at least 6 days per week. They use various means to fish, so even if you have an 'advanced method' let's call it, you're going to still be fighting hard for a block.

- Blocks never release except within about 30 minutes or less from the start time. Blocks only release the same day. They don't release a day ahead or more unless you get a reserved block on Fri-Sat. If you only come in on days when you have a block the previous day, you will only come in during your 1-2 reserved blocks per week. You will need to be at or within a few minutes of the warehouse since often that's all the time there is before the block starts.

- Blocks often are routed so that you end far away from the warehouse without the ability to get back for the next two hour block until about 30 minutes too late. At least 1 hour of the 12 hours is not spent fishing, but wasted on unpaid return travel. And if you attempt to chain blocks together without being at the warehouse for the start of that next block, you will be talked to at the warehouse about it. The app allows it, but the warehouse rips you a new one for it.

- You will also lose a lot of the tip money if you take various blocks that do not coincide with the main two hour blocks. If you take blocks that begin at odd times or on the half hour, often you will be stuck doing single one hour packages. Those are long on miles and short on tips. So your hourly on those will be lucky if it's at $25 per hour with tips.

You can also lose another 30 minutes of unpaid time if you are on a block that ends 30 minutes short of the two hour block. Add that to the potential extra 30 minutes to return to the warehouse after that. If you refuse the two hour delivery (with many stops), they can give you a couple one hour deliveries but then your tips are shot and you may make even less.

- Just going in to drive for a single scheduled 2 hour or 4 hour block on two different days during the week seems to be a waste of time (aka. what gets scheduled). Often its during rush hour, and by the time you factor in to get to the warehouse etc. its not worth it for so few hours.

To sum it all up, it seems to be a great deal for amazon. They get basically a virtual line of people 20 deep waiting unpaid all day at the warehouse for work. Then they can send them on a block without being paid for time to return to the warehouse, or in some cases, not enough time to even finish the deliveries.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

I found Flex to be much harder on the car. Just getting in and out of it 40 times, and if you're in a sketchy area, you have to turn it off and restart it 40 times. Plus, loading, rooting through and unloading packages. ... Lots of wear and tear.


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## mke (Dec 19, 2016)

grams777 said:


> The analysis I outlined is based on what I see at least about 20 + other people trying to do every day at our warehouse. I tried it briefly to see how it worked out. I'm not saying it should be treated as a full time job - I'm only showing what the reality of attempting to do so means here.
> 
> There are a few things which may be different at my location:
> 
> ...


That sucks, if I had to deal with that the answer would be simple, quit doing it.

If I still liked doing delivery u would just get a full time job doing it. You get paid for 40 hours of work, no wear on your own car, and you don't have to spend 12 hours fishing...just 8 hours working. I bet if all your drivers did the same Flex would change there pretty quick...but from Amazon's standpoint you all are putting up with and they get their packages delivered...what the hell do they care.


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## CTridz (Feb 20, 2017)

Shangsta said:


> I would concede it's no longer the great gig it once was. Used to be you could get two 4 hour blocks in one day for 144 bucks like clock work only making sixty stops a day, those days are long gone but it's still a decent gig.
> 
> Especially if you deliver at a time of day when rideshare is pretty dead.
> 
> It's a decent gig and when it "surges" with a price increase of 25/hr block it's nice but that rarely happens.


ONLY 60 stops?!?!?!? I've never had the opportunity to work with flex, but this sounds insane. I'm just imagining all the wear and tear on the vehicle.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

CTridz said:


> ONLY 60 stops?!?!?!? I've never had the opportunity to work with flex, but this sounds insane. I'm just imagining all the wear and tear on the vehicle.


60 stops over two 4 hour blocks (30 per block) wasn't too bad. Now some folks have 3 hour shifts with 40 stops.

Stops weren't so bad back then. Leasing offices took everything so you didn't have to climb stairs five times a shift.

I never turned my car off in neighborhoods.


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## WMUber (Mar 22, 2016)

Again, grams777 , it depends on your location. I do this part-time. I live in the Hollywood Hills (California) and the Day Job is in Torrance. I do Amazon Flex out of the Santa Monica Prime Warehouse. The Sprouts location is a mile down the hill from where I live. Three restaurant way stations are between the day job and home. If I go to the warehouse, it is a 10 mile detour on my commute home. If I deliver on the weekends, the warehouse is 10 miles from my home. I average driving 1 mile for every $2.00 earned (including dead miles). Last week, I made $400.00, but only put 170 additional miles on my car. For me, I average about $20.00 per hour after expenses.


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## flexian (Aug 16, 2016)

being able to pick up shifts without 'fishing' is the key to the whole thing

and the key from AMAZON's perspective is to keep people thinking it's random

so a guy fishes 5 hrs a day, rues the bad luck keeping his hourly down

a guy fishes 2 min. a day, thinking wow, can't believe anyone would be unfortunate enough to not have this luck every day like me!

and they have to be aware of each other, each seeing themselves as outliers on the luck distribution

but the catch is.....

there's nobody in the middle


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## I Drive Select (Oct 16, 2016)

if you count hours fishing, then it's a depressing number for sure


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## enigmaquip (Sep 2, 2016)

I'll use grams777 example with my own numbers..... I do logistics, No time spent fishing, I know when my morning block comes out and the second block drops during the first, so no unpaid time spent fishing... I average 120 miles per 8 hrs... I get 40 hrs easily from flex and an average week it takes me 25 hrs from block start to last package/return to finish those 40

Weekly gross: $720 (40 block hours x $18)
- Weekly miles: - $180 (120 x 5days x .30 per mile full operating costs)
- Driving risk / taxes / no benefits: - $72
Net Profit: $468

$468/25hrs = $18.72/hr

With only one WH serving all of Denver we keep pretty busy. Although we have two more sort warehouses on the way and a full distribution center being built, which'll bring us prime now by like christmas


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

enigmaquip said:


> I'll use grams777 example with my own numbers..... I do logistics, No time spent fishing, I know when my morning block comes out and the second block drops during the first, so no unpaid time spent fishing... I average 120 miles per 8 hrs... I get 40 hrs easily from flex and an average week it takes me 25 hrs from block start to last package/return to finish those 40
> 
> Weekly gross: $720 (40 block hours x $18)
> - Weekly miles: - $180 (120 x 5days x .30 per mile full operating costs)
> ...


In that case, logistics in your location is much better than prime now is here. Prime now here is much different and doesn't work out anything like that. In your case, logistics really pays twice as much since you don't have to fish all day, you can complete blocks in less time, and have fewer miles. None of that holds true for what's going on with prime now where I'm at.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

There are plenty of logistics warehouses where people have to fish all day


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## enigmaquip (Sep 2, 2016)

From reading these forums I know there are, as I said we're lucky here


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

grams777 said:


> In that case, logistics in your location is much better than prime now is here. Prime now here is much different and doesn't work out anything like that. In your case, logistics really pays twice as much since you don't have to fish all day, you can complete blocks in less time, and have fewer miles. None of that holds true for what's going on with prime now where I'm at.


Ok, so if it's so bad, why do you do it? I mean, it seems to be a recurring theme everywhere on this forum -- people ***** and moan about how horrible everything is yet act like they HAVE to spend 60 hours a week driving for ridershare or flex or whatever else.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Ok, so if it's so bad, why do you do it? I mean, it seems to be a recurring theme everywhere on this forum -- people ***** and moan about how horrible everything is yet act like they HAVE to spend 60 hours a week driving for ridershare or flex or whatever else.


I don't. I only did it a few weeks until I saw how the numbers came out because it wasn't obvious until you see the reality of how it works. These issues I raised are what waters it down.

Maybe I'll do it again to get some exercise or find a different angle to it. But I'm not really motivated to go through all that for $10 / hr. This is the same reason I hardly do any rideshare either. That often comes out way less than $10. One bad accident or a tarnished driving record can even wipe out what little that was made.

I can see why people do it though. It generates short term cash flow even though in the long term it's going to catch up. If you need the cash flow or just want something to do or can't schedule hours, or can make a better profit from it, it makes some sense.

In my case, the tax deduction and $2k per month health care credit also add to the mix in a positive way. And some locations are different than others. Even some shifts may be better than others. It still doesn't change the hourly reality for many.

I'm just relaying what my experience is with it. If it sucks, it sucks. Maybe I did something that sucks. I'm not going to sugar coat it whether I'm still doing it or not.

It was interesting to see how fast that $25-30 per hour can drop to $10. I didn't really even expect it until I crunched the numbers after a few weeks of doing it. That's when I posted my results.

It's not really that obvious at that time until you step back and add it up. All these various things that amazon does are mostly what mess it up.

And here's another opinion of our city's operation (not me):
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Amazon-Flex-RVW12005502.htm


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## flexian (Aug 16, 2016)

enigmaquip said:


> From reading these forums I know there are, as I said we're lucky here


prime now is toxic the way amazon does it

the lucky feeling cant last


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> I would concede it's no longer the great gig it once was. Used to be you could get two 4 hour blocks in one day for 144 bucks like clock work only making sixty stops a day, those days are long gone but it's still a decent gig.
> 
> Especially if you deliver at a time of day when rideshare is pretty dead.
> 
> It's a decent gig and when it "surges" with a price increase of 25/hr block it's nice but that rarely happens.


I get 8 hour blocks here in Los Angeles, but I NERVER get more than 6-10 deliveries. It's so much traffic here, it can take 45 minutes to get back to the warehouse after a 5 mile delivery.

I never go over 25 miles doing my blocks. I have three 8 hour blocks for this week.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

KekeLo said:


> I get 8 hour blocks here in Los Angeles, but I NERVER get more than 6-10 deliveries. It's so much traffic here, it can take 45 minutes to get back to the warehouse after a 5 mile delivery.
> 
> I never go over 25 miles doing my blocks. I have three 8 hour blocks for this week.


Welcome back Kekelo we missed you!!!


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> Welcome back Kekelo we missed you!!!


What are you doing over here in the Flex thread?


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

KekeLo said:


> What are you doing over here in the Flex thread?


I got lost.


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I got lost.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

This analysis needs to be revisited because of Amazon lowering the total pay. They are doing this by reducing the amount Amazon pays and applying some tips toward the hourly rate (https://uberpeople.net/threads/prim...ur-tips-to-lower-their-base-pay-to-us.145756/). The old method was $18 per hour PLUS TIPS. The new method is $18 per hour or more INCLUDING SOME TIPS AS PART OF THE $18 (based on an undisclosed variable formula).

I assumed $30 per hour which was $18 plus $12 in tips. This is about what I averaged until sometime in February. However, looking back at my last week of driving for Flex , there was a consistent $5 per hour decrease in what I was making before that.

I used to range about $25-35 per block hour. Quite a few times I used to have a block every day or two that averaged near $40 or more per hour.

But in the last week I drove in the later part of February, it had declined to the $20 - $30 range. The highest per hour had declined to about $30.

Based on the information in the thread about Amazon changing the pay structure, it's quite possible this decline was due to the decrease in pay by Amazon.

My initial assumption of $30 per block hour should probably be $25 per block hour now.

This changes the per hour analysis as follows:

Daily gross: $175 (7 block hours x $25) - (was $210 = $30 per hour before)
- Daily miles: - $54 (180 x .30 per mile full operating costs)
- Driving risk / taxes / no benefits: - $21
Net Profit: $100 (was $135)

Straight Time Hourly Rate: $8.33 ($100 /12 hours) (was 11.25)

Comparable Rate if paid overtime: $7.15 ($7.15 x 8 = $57 plus time and half at 10.73 x 4 = $43. Total = $100, was $9.65)

This is actually a very serious pay cut. If I lose $5 per block hour, my net profit per day after car expenses goes from $135 to $100.

This is a 25% pay cut in net profit.

This puts it right about at minimum wage.


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## flexian (Aug 16, 2016)

and remember kids, $25/hr is literally the highest of the high end u'll be getting (in 37 states)


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## UberPasco (Oct 18, 2015)

You guys are idiots. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.


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## flexian (Aug 16, 2016)

never fear, i have no doubt Amazon's tradition of "some drivers are more equal than others" will continue unabated

good luck out there!


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