# How is Kia/Hyundai/Genesis able to offer competitive vehicles at a lower price?



## tejas111 (Dec 14, 2020)

I just watched Alex on Autos review of the new redesigned Kia Sorento, and it really blew me away. He went so far as to say that it handles better than the Mazda CX-9. It seems like Kia/Hyundai have really evolved and are offering some serious bang for your buck, my question is simply, how?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

They use cheaper parts, they don’t last as long, the paint fades faster, more plastic everywhere


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## Toyota Guy (May 18, 2016)

I sold cars off and on for twenty-five years from the eighties through 2016. During that time, Hyundai went from a complete POS to a brand that worked. However, during that time, I never saw one with more than 150,000 miles on the odometer. When I see one with over 200,000, I'll consider them worthy. For what we do, why anyone would buy anything other than Toyota or Honda is beyond me.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

tejas111 said:


> I just watched Alex on Autos review of the new redesigned Kia Sorento, and it really blew me away. He went so far as to say that it handles better than the Mazda CX-9. It seems like Kia/Hyundai have really evolved and are offering some serious bang for your buck, my question is simply, how?


Nothing wrong with the Korean cars, maybe one step below Toyota .. 
https://www.hyundainews.com/en-us/releases/2019


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## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

_I was with Hyundai/Subaru dealer for 14 years(sales)2001-2015 They built brand new state of the art factories in the early 2000's, which created the ability to to build their cars faster, more efficiently and produce more per week than anyone else.

Toyota and Honda have in that time needed to keep within the price ranges Hyundai was offering their car for, so in turn they started using cheaper parts, and offering less standard equipment, using cheaper materials, thinner metal etc to stay in that price range. I saw this improvement in Hyundai during that time, and actually have owned 3 in that time, and not an issue at all and very happy with them _


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

They build engines that are inferior to those of their Japanese peers in terms of—simultaneously—power and fuel-efficiency.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Toyota Guy said:


> I sold cars off and on for twenty-five years from the eighties through 2016. During that time, Hyundai went from a complete POS to a brand that worked. However, during that time, I never saw one with more than 150,000 miles on the odometer. When I see one with over 200,000, I'll consider them worthy. For what we do, why anyone would buy anything other than Toyota or Honda is beyond me.


I still have my last Uber car.
It's an 09 Toyota Avalon.
I gave $10k for it and it had 100k on it.

It now has 250k on it, and runs like new.
It's faded, and dinged and the leather is showing wear ... she's old.
But comfortable and safe.

The only work I have ever done on it (other than maintenance) is about $1100 worth of suspension work last month. If I live long enough, I expect it to do a half million miles.


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

Kia has the worst air conditioners in the world. They work for 20 minutes then they don't work at all unless you install a thermostat. I think they made a bulletin about it, but didn't recall it. This was the 2007 model's and probably +/- 3 years that had this problem. My friend had the same problem so I know it's true.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

They don't have the legacy costs of established automakers. Any brand that's been around for 50 years is paying pensions and medical on retired employees. 

Meanwhile, newer brands are using established technologies and improving on them at a much smaller cost that it was decades ago.

Not to mention most of their white collar workforce is probably on mainland Asia where labor is much cheaper.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

they are cheap because there are some areas they cut cost vs Toyota / Honda. 

The motors are impressive these days but they don't last very long. These are good cars for short term ownership.


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## The super uber (May 23, 2020)

I uber with a Hyundai Sonata, 2016, Hybrid Limited edition. Bought at 58,000 miles. A sweet car getting 42 to 45 MPG Hybrid is the way to go over a 4 cylinder 2.0 engine. Hyundai and Kia are above Toyota and Honda in the food chain.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Hyundai and Kia have made A LOT of progress since they came on the market, but I still wouldn't buy one without factory bumper-to-bumper warranty in place. Not that I'd probably ever buy a Hyundai or a Kia, neither personal nor RS use, anyway...

Maybe a used V8 Genesis sedan to drive around for a while, but even that would be a bit of a reach. I'd need to get it cheap enough so that I'd be able to sell it on without losing too much once I'm done with it. And I would imagine market for a use large V8 Genesis isn't probably moving too fast.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

NicFit said:


> They use cheaper parts, they don't last as long, the paint fades faster, more plastic everywhere


All false

They build superior cars. Not sure on their margins and hows and whys, but There is no mazda I would buy and cost for cost no honda either.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> All false
> 
> They build superior cars. Not sure on their margins and hows and whys, but There is no mazda I would buy and cost for cost no honda either.


You ever see an older one of these, they look ancient compared to other cars, the paint is faded more, the plastic looks older and there just isn't as many older ones on the road due to everything starts falling apart, I'm not saying they aren't reliable but after a few years you'll see the difference of these compared to a better car. When they are new it's hard to tell, but go find a 10 year old one and you'll see what I'm talking about


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> You ever see an older one of these, they look ancient compared to other cars, the paint is faded more, the plastic looks older and there just isn't as many older ones on the road due to everything starts falling apart, I'm not saying they aren't reliable but after a few years you'll see the difference of these compared to a better car. When they are new it's hard to tell, but go find a 10 year old one and you'll see what I'm talking about


I agree.

In my experience, they are waaayy better than what they used to be, but still not up to the Toyota / honda for longevity..not yet anyway.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

NicFit said:


> You ever see an older one of these, they look ancient compared to other cars, the paint is faded more, the plastic looks older and there just isn't as many older ones on the road due to everything starts falling apart, I'm not saying they aren't reliable but after a few years you'll see the difference of these compared to a better car. When they are new it's hard to tell, but go find a 10 year old one and you'll see what I'm talking about


Built.

You are discussing past histories. Most of those issues were fixed in the early oughts. In 1999 while the world was panicking about 000 syndrome, Hyundai made a dramatic course change to pursue quality and build better cars than the Japanese. The path was hard as they had a lot of systemic issues both in management and production, but by 2006 they had overcome their shortcomings and turned the corner on real quality. Todays Hyundai / Kia are superior vehicles to most others being produced for mass market.

I am a car guy. I have a dealers license and flip cars and trucks to make money and for fun. 2010 Kia's and Hyundai's are great products. Usually the condition of a vehicle comes down to the owner and environment.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> Built.
> 
> You are discussing past histories. Most of those issues were fixed in the early oughts. In 1999 while the world was panicking about 000 syndrome, Hyundai made a dramatic course change to pursue quality and build better cars than the Japanese. The path was hard as they had a lot of systemic issues both in management and production, but by 2006 they had overcome their shortcomings and turned the corner on real quality. Todays Hyundai / Kia are superior vehicles to most others being produced for mass market.
> 
> I am a car guy. I have a dealers license and flip cars and trucks to make money and for fun. 2010 Kia's and Hyundai's are great products. Usually the condition of a vehicle comes down to the owner and environment.


They have improved over the years but they still are cheap cars. They aren't setup as well, finishes aren't as nice, the styles are boring and outdated


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

NicFit said:


> They have improved over the years but they still are cheap cars. They aren't setup as well, finishes aren't as nice, the styles are boring and outdated


I disagree, as much of this is subjective. These Korean triplets are producing some interesting aesthetics. They may not be winning a ton of initial build quality awards (Cadillac was a perennial winner for this, but they were always cheaply made, used bottom of the barrel parts, and depreciated rapidly), but they have enough confidence in the longevity of their cars to have an industry-leading warranty (although, it's tough to gauge the value of this when people tend to not retain cars for very long). There are some things I really don't like about them (the reverse widget on manual Kia Souls), but it's tough to argue with the proliferation of their products. I'd drive a Kia/Hyundai long before a FoMoCo or MOPAR product.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> longevity of their cars to have an industry-leading warranty


So, when you go shopping ... do you shop for a car? or a warranty?


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> So, when you go shopping ... do you shop for a car? or a warranty?


Um. Both.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Wife and I both own KIA's......been driving them since 2010. They make exceptional appliances. Best automotive value IMHO recently in the market.

She has 60KM on hers, and I have 170KM on mine.......80% of it from Uber. No issues whatsoever.


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

I own three Kia's with my 16 sorento hitting 200k miles. My 14 optima has 140k miles. My 14 forte has 90k miles.

The only issues I have had are:

1. Optima - wheel bearings.
2. Sorento - currently replacing the entire front and rear suspension. Front shocks/struts are next 
3. No issues with the forte.

All engines, paint, interior, show minimal wear and tear. 10k mile synthetic oil changes is all I have done over the years. Nothing else.

Once the Sorento dies, I will be jumping into a telluride. I expect to get 250-300k miles on these vehicles.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> I disagree, as much of this is subjective. These Korean triplets are producing some interesting aesthetics. They may not be winning a ton of initial build quality awards (Cadillac was a perennial winner for this, but they were always cheaply made, used bottom of the barrel parts, and depreciated rapidly), but they have enough confidence in the longevity of their cars to have an industry-leading warranty (although, it's tough to gauge the value of this when people tend to not retain cars for very long). There are some things I really don't like about them (the reverse widget on manual Kia Souls), but it's tough to argue with the proliferation of their products. I'd drive a Kia/Hyundai long before a FoMoCo or MOPAR product.



















Hers is a Kia and a Cadillac, you can look at the two and see some of the differences. Stuff like the wheels are bigger on the caddy, and could be a personal opinion but the ascetics are way better on the caddy

















Look at the interiors, the caddy has a bigger screen, less clutter buttons, the trim is more intricate on the caddy. To me the Kia just doesn't look as well made or as expensive compared to the Cadillac. I'm not saying the Kia is junk, but they just aren't luxury cars, you can just tell from these photos what I was trying to point out


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tejas111 said:


> I just watched Alex on Autos review of the new redesigned Kia Sorento, and it really blew me away. He went so far as to say that it handles better than the Mazda CX-9. It seems like Kia/Hyundai have really evolved and are offering some serious bang for your buck, my question is simply, how?


Forget Toyota.
Hyundai World Wide .

G.M. could have done this.
But CHOSE to sell cheap crap.


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

NicFit said:


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I also wouldn't call anything with the history of depreciation and/or reliability of the Cadillac a luxury car. Luxury and superficiality don't mix well, in my mind. I'll take any Acura over any Cadillac without a moment's hesitation.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jaxbeachrides said:


> They don't have the legacy costs of established automakers. Any brand that's been around for 50 years is paying pensions and medical on retired employees.
> 
> Meanwhile, newer brands are using established technologies and improving on them at a much smaller cost that it was decades ago.
> 
> Not to mention most of their white collar workforce is probably on mainland Asia where labor is much cheaper.


Hyundai has a plant in Tennessee
.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

The same is true for the Kia vs Acura, just looking at these photos there's no way I'd pick a Kia, they've come a long way over the years but to me a Kia is still a cheap car


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

NicFit said:


> View attachment 534334
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Not exactly apples and apples. The Kia K5 is pretty well-appointed and, to me, aesthetically pleasing.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

NicFit said:


> View attachment 534324
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Now
Compare Hyundai Genesis to Cadillac . . .
V-6 or v-8.


NicFit said:


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compare that Kia K-5 to the Chevy Malibu !


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> Now
> Compare Hyundai Genesis to Cadillac . . .
> V-6 or v-8.
> View attachment 534338
> ...


The Genesis isn't a typical Hyundai, it's their luxury line up and it looks like a luxury vehicle, the regular Hyundai's just don't have the flare that this one does, this just is barely a Hyundai, and not a typical example of one. Also the price difference, that looks like a 50k vehicle the Genesis, the Kia is probably a 20k at most, which you can still tell that the Kia is just cheaper looking, still proves my point that there's a reason a Kia is cheap


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> Um. Both.


Hmmm.
Well, to each his own.

I always figured that if it was a POS it _better_ have a 100k warranty, bumper to bumper.
If it's a good machine, a normal warranty to work the 'new' bugs out then never needed again ...


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> Hmmm.
> Well, to each his own.
> 
> I always figured that if it was a POS it _better_ have a 100k warranty, bumper to bumper.
> If it's a good machine, a normal warranty to work the 'new' bugs out then never needed again ...


I haven't bought a piece o' shit since my '81 Monte Carlo Turbo back in '87.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> I haven't bought a piece o' shit since my '81 Monte Carlo Turbo back in '87.


HA. Right.
Turbo anything, by anybody back then was a time bomb. Tick, tick. They'd blow up sooner or ... um, sooner.
Remember the Mazda rotary motor? LoL.
American car companies were turning out CRAP in the 70's and 80's - with very few exceptions.
That's when Honda moved in. Then Toyota. 
I bought a 76 Toyota Corolla new for almost nothing and abused it for 300,000 miles until my girlfriend rolled it ... another story for another day. But, it was very fuel efficient for those days, easy to work on and maintain, reliable. 
I've always tried to buy American cars, I just can't afford it.


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> HA. Right.
> Turbo anything, by anybody back then was a time bomb. Tick, tick. They'd blow up sooner or ... um, sooner.
> Remember the Mazda rotary motor? LoL.
> American car companies were turning out CRAP in the 70's and 80's - with very few exceptions.
> ...


Before my parents went totally addict, they bought a '77 Celica GT fastback and a Honda CVCC. Both were awesome, both lasted well beyond how long they should have, given the abuse heaped on them.

I really liked my 280ZX turbo, and it was decently reliable. Oh, and it talked.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> Before my parents went totally addict, they bought a '77 Celica GT fastback and a Honda CVCC. Both were awesome, both lasted well beyond how long they should have, given the abuse heaped on them.
> 
> I really liked my 280ZX turbo, and it was decently reliable. Oh, and it talked.


HA.
Oh man.
I made a big mistake and bought my wife a brand new 76 260Z.
That car was scary, and put wifey behind the wheel it was terrifying.

We lived in East Bay San Francisco at the time, alpha male/female. Life was good. It was a good time to be young.
But, I rode with her once on Highway 80 headed to San Francisco at about 4 am, and it was like being in The Gumball Race or something. Like a Dirty Harry movie. And, I felt like my ass was about four inches offa the pavement that was rolling past me at 80 mph on a drizzle slick road looking up at the undercarriage of a semi truck ... 
That's when I got gray.
... but that car was like glued to the road. Noisy and bumpy and smelled like machinery ... but, wifey could sure drive it. And it seemed to enjoy being driven. No power steering, no power windows ... a true old-school sports car.

It was the last time I got in it. And, while I had to admit it was a good car, I was glad when she decided to sell it.


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> HA.
> Oh man.
> I made a big mistake and bought my wife a brand new 76 260Z.
> That car was scary, and put wifey behind the wheel it was terrifying.
> ...


That 260 would fetch a nice price these days. Those things were so planted, so poised.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> That 260 would fetch a nice price these days. Those things were so planted, so poised.


Yea, well, that's true of most of the cars I grew up with.
My 55 Chevy two door coupe being one of them.
Used to 'drag the main' in that one in Richmond, CA in high school in 1969 - the summer of love.

But that 260z.
150 hp at 5500 rpm, and a five speed manual transmission. A CHP driving a Chrysler K-car POS actually blew up the engine in his car chasing wifey in that Datsun, and she didn't even know she was being chased.
Seriously.
Like I said, those days were ... the 70's.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> So, when you go shopping ... do you shop for a car? or a warranty?


Depends on what the car is intended for. No matter the use though, a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty is a powerful value. For RS? two years of bumper to bumper, Solid choice.

Greatest cars produced? No. Very good cars that are a great value? Yes.

In the eighties when Hyundai was emerging with such winners as the Excel Chevrolet was countering with winners like the Beretta and the Corsica. Ford had the first two gens of Taurus and Escort..

When was the last time you saw an 85 Tarus? Fing beautiful car. HUGE POS.

I have owned 4 modern Kias, and 2 00's. The early ones had crap suspensions but decent engines and interiors. The 12's on are great cars.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

#professoruber said:


> I own three Kia's with my 16 sorento hitting 200k miles. My 14 optima has 140k miles. My 14 forte has 90k miles.
> 
> The only issues I have had are:
> 
> ...


We have a Telluride, It is my eldest wifes DD. She loves it and so do I. It is a great rig with stage 3 SDC and a tow rating of 500 / 5000. If you are going to do RS in it get the second row bench, not the great captains chairs. The third row is tighter than in the Sorrento and puting three back there is laughable. 3 kids maybe. XL runs are much easier in the Sorrento I use for RS.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Toyota Guy said:


> I sold cars off and on for twenty-five years from the eighties through 2016. During that time, Hyundai went from a complete POS to a brand that worked. However, during that time, I never saw one with more than 150,000 miles on the odometer. When I see one with over 200,000, I'll consider them worthy. For what we do, why anyone would buy anything other than Toyota or Honda is beyond me.


I made the mistake of buying a Nissan Altima. NEVER AGAIN


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## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

NicFit said:


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Apples and oranges my friend 65k+ vs loaded Kia/Sonata 36K


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

I have a 2018 tucson awd, not much power very slugish with ac on. Seatbelts don't retrack well always getting caught in the door, seatbelt doesn't ping on passenger side only blinks a light witch I miss alot when not worn, lots of riders think the door is locked because the handle doesn't click when pulling the handle, always telling them it doesn't click ,Backup camera very granny. It does have a smooth ride though, just a lot of annoying things for a car to use for ride-sharing.


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## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

NicFit said:


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Your comparing luxury to economy.
You need to compare it to a Chevy Cruze to be reasonable.
You should compare the Caddy to a Genesis since they're the brands luxury sedans.

Here's a Genesis vs Cruze


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

Alantc said:


> I have a 2018 tucson awd, not much power very slugish with ac on. Seatbelts don't retrack well always getting caught in the door, seatbelt doesn't ping on passenger side only blinks a light witch I miss alot when not worn, lots of riders think the door is locked because the handle doesn't click when pulling the handle, always telling them it doesn't click ,Backup camera very granny. It does have a smooth ride though, just a lot of annoying things for a car to use for ride-sharing.


It cracks me up watching people try to exit the vehicle. For females, I tell them they are not going anywhere and they quickly figure it out. For males, I simply tell them pull handle and push. They pull handle and the look on their face as if they are expecting the door to magically open.

The seatbelts do not retract which is usually when I don't put the seatbelt so it can retract. My Sorento has a V6 AWD. I have never had a issue with power.

I don't care about seatbelts as in Texas if you're over 18, the ticket goes to the offender. I actually appreciate the silence when anyone isn't wearing a seatbelt. If I happen to get in a wreck and you end up being ejected from the vehicle, I would be that Uber driver that explains how riders seem to think they are exempt from things they do when drive their own vehicle or in a friends vehicle.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

#professoruber said:


> I don't care about seatbelts as in Texas if you're over 18, the ticket goes to the offender.


Huh.
A place where the offender is held responsible for his misdeeds without making other people pay the piper.
Amazing.

Wonder who thought of that.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> So, when you go shopping ... do you shop for a car? or a warranty?


I shop for a car that ahs a warranty but look for a car where I hopefully don't have to use said warranty!

Waiting at / for dealerships suck....


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## JaysUberman (Dec 19, 2017)

I would also imagine that being a Korean company versus a Japanese and especially North American company and being newer to the game than those aforementioned companies they don't have anywhere as large a pension liability to fund that must be built into the cost of vehicles.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> Huh.
> A place where the offender is held responsible for his misdeeds without making other people pay the piper.
> Amazing.
> 
> Wonder who thought of that.


No " NANNY CAR " NANNY STATE GOVT. RULES


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Honda recall today
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.detroitnews.com/amp/3915308001


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Toyota Guy said:


> . When I see one with over 200,000, I'll consider them worthy


When my 2011 Hyundai Sonata was hit and totalled 2 months ago it had 233,000 miles on it.
Only repairs were routine maintenance.


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

On the opposite side of this, I might be willing to lease a Chevy electric in a couple of years. I swore off American cars years ago, but a lease will have warranty coverage during the entire ownership period. The trick is negotiating mileage that will cover delivery miles.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> I still have my last Uber car.
> It's an 09 Toyota Avalon.
> I gave $10k for it and it had 100k on it.
> 
> ...


My Toyota Prius currently has 260,000 miles on it and it hums like a kitten. The only thing I've ever done to it is change the water pump. At 225,000 miles. All my hondas and toyotas have never sputtered out on me, not even one single time. the only thing that made me get rid of them was they started rusting out.

My parents though always bought Hyundais, because they are korean. And they wanted to back korean made vehicles. And for the most part they all ran fine. And they cost a whole lot less than the japanese cars now.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

I think for the most part, any car from around 2010 for the most part will make it to 100K miles pretty easily. these days brands need to make at least "decent junk" to stay competitive in the market. 100K is probably around when most average people trade it in anyway. Anything past that most people think as "gravy" 


There will be hits / misses...like i had a 1990 Camry...one of the cars that built up Toyotas reputation for build quality / longevitiy. I loved the car but it was the WORST car I ever owned reliability wise. Literally spent every weekend fixing stuff, and I used as much OE or at least denso etc.. parts I could get. barely made it to 150K miles....My neighbor had one as well and it was so unreliable she traded it in. My other neighbor had one to but thiers lasted forever.....go figure.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

sumidaj said:


> I think for the most part, any car from around 2010 for the most part will make it to 100K miles pretty easily.


The way I look at it is that 200K is now what 100K used to be 15-20 years ago. I have no issues in buying vehicles with 100K+ miles. especially if I know what I'm looking at. Then again..., I do educate myself on what I'm considering buying quite a bit more than your average Joe Schmo who just goes and buys something nice or pretty or fancy or cool or what ever.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NicFit said:


> They use cheaper parts, they don't last as long, the paint fades faster, more plastic everywhere


My 12 year old car is holding up perfect. Paint still perfect. Leather still perfect. The interior looks better than most of the Hondas I see a the auction.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

My 2013 Elantra GT is at about 195k. There is some rust in places, like under the edge of the hatch by the handle, but other than that (and some self inflicted damage) the body is in very good shape. The leather interior is very nice and the panorama room works. Great stereo; I roll down the windows on the side facing my grill and listen to Pandora. Just had the clutch replaced this year so it's good to go. I will say the engine lacks power, but with a stick shift I can make up for that with RPM's.

Overall I am very happy with the vehicle. I bought it used 2 years ago with 133k miles on it. Cost per mile, including gas, is about $0.30-0.35 in 2020....yes I have a spreadsheet that includes just about everything, including cleaning supplies.

I did have a problem with a 2006 stick shift Sonata though. The pressure plates are in the flywheel instead of the clutch, so when those start going you need to get rid of the vehicle due to the prohibitive cost of the repair. Also the suspension squeaked and I couldn't get rid of the sound. It's a shame because that car had a nice couch-like back seat and a roomy trunk.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NicFit said:


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Almost every Cadillac I saw at the auction was a pos 
Electronics going bad. Cheapest stuff


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

tejas111 said:


> I just watched Alex on Autos review of the new redesigned Kia Sorento, and it really blew me away. He went so far as to say that it handles better than the Mazda CX-9. It seems like Kia/Hyundai have really evolved and are offering some serious bang for your buck, my question is simply, how?


The korean brands are not bad. But...

My daughter's 2012 Optima needed a new trans and new engine before 70k miles.

Your mileage may vary. But i am not convinced they have great longevity.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> My daughter's 2012 Optima needed a new trans and new engine before 70k miles.
> 
> *Your mileage may vary*. But i am not convinced they have great longevity.


Pun intended?


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Of course...


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

NicFit said:


> View attachment 534324
> View attachment 534325
> 
> 
> ...





NicFit said:


> View attachment 534334
> 
> View attachment 534332
> 
> ...


Here's a Yugo interior and a Bentley interior...



















You have to compare cars that are priced similarly if you're going to talk down one or another. Here are a couple of $30K-$40K offerings from Kia, if you want a closer comparison to the Cadillac.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

TXUbering said:


> Here's a Yugo interior and a Bentley interior...
> 
> View attachment 534780
> 
> ...


Here is a Bently Continental GT 2 door.
Here is a Hyundai Genesis GT 90 2 door.

One is nearly 1/3 the cost of the other.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

TXUbering said:


> Here's a Yugo interior and a Bentley interior...
> 
> View attachment 534780
> 
> ...


Point is that they couldn't figure out how the cars are so cheap, once you start looking at them closely you start seeing why they are cheap cars. They don't look as good, they have bad messy button setups, they don't have very much trim or style pieces. You only made that clearer with these picks. I was comparing them so you can see why a Kia is cheap compared to the rest of the cars


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Here is a Bently Continental GT 2 door.
> Here is a Hyundai Genesis GT 90 2 door.
> 
> One is nearly 1/3 the cost of the other.
> ...


Kia and Hyundai do provide good value. Are they the most reliable cars on the planet? Unlikely. The type of features you get for the money is outstanding, IMO. The few Kias I used for rideshare we're not too bad. I will admit that one had a transmission replaced at 45,000 miles, but I drove that thing like I had stolen it. The "Honda/Toyota snobs" don't realize how much more car they can buy for the money. Like the sonata, has a feature that will pull the car out of a tight parking space from the key fob. That feature isn't cheap on any other car from any other manufacturer.








NicFit said:


> Point is that they couldn't figure out how the cars are so cheap, once you start looking at them closely you start seeing why they are cheap cars. They don't look as good, they have bad messy button setups, they don't have very much trim or style pieces. You only made that clearer with these picks. I was comparing them so you can see why a Kia is cheap compared to the rest of the cars


I have news for you, most of them are cheaply made now. I used to work at the GM plant in arlington texas and our paint was so bad one year that trim pieces were literally falling off the car with the paint attached.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

TXUbering said:


> Kia and Hyundai do provide good value. Are they the most reliable cars on the planet? Unlikely. The type of features you get for the money is outstanding, IMO. The few Kias I used for rideshare we're not too bad. I will admit that one had a transmission replaced at 45,000 miles, but I drove that thing like I had stolen it. The "Honda/Toyota snobs" don't realize how much more car they can buy for the money. Like the sonata, has a feature that will pull the car out of a tight parking space from the key fob. That feature isn't cheap on any other car from any other manufacturer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes but you still don't get the point, it looks cheaper then the rest of the cars no matter what you keep trying to argue about. I'm done here, no one else bother me with this, I don't want to keep arguing about how crappy Kias are. They are cheap junk cars I wouldn't be caught dead in. I would never own a Kia, to me it's just some cheap plastic and metal rolling around that's not even worth recycling


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

NicFit said:


> Yes but you still don't get the point, it looks cheaper then the rest of the cars no matter what you keep trying to argue about. I'm done here, no one else bother me with this, I don't want to keep arguing about how crappy Kias are. They are cheap junk cars I wouldn't be caught dead in. I would never own a Kia, to me it's just some cheap plastic and metal rolling around that's not even worth recycling


That may be your perception, but you are dead wrong. Don't buy one then

Meanwhile people much smarter than you will make better choices


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> That may be your perception, but you are dead wrong. Don't buy one then
> 
> Meanwhile people much smarter than you will make better choices


The are junk, they don't look good and they aren't worth anything. Bottom of the barrel, Kia means you can't afford anything else. You don't own a Kia because your successful. Smart people only buy this garbage because they don't want to spend money on a nice car and they just want a rolling piece of plastic and metal. They don't care about the car and when you buy a Kia it shows


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

NicFit said:


> The are junk, they don't look good and they aren't worth anything. Bottom of the barrel, Kia means you can't afford anything else. You don't own a Kia because your successful. Smart people only buy this garbage because they don't want to spend money on a nice car and they just want a rolling piece of plastic and metal. They don't care about the car and when you buy a Kia it shows


If you're driving UberX or UberEats, cost per mile over the time you own the vehicle is what matters. Pax don't pay extra for cool styling, and as long as the ride is reasonably comfortable ratings shouldn't suffer. And I can guarantee food delivery customers couldn't care less about what the car looks like.

So are you buying a car for business reasons or so you can feel good about yourself? It's up to you; answer the question for yourself.


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

damn, answer is always Prius but its so ugly that we make stories in our heads to justify an alternative


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

TXUbering said:


> You have to compare cars that are priced similarly if you're going to talk down one or another.


I don't think he's talking down, just comparing why one is now a world class lux, and tge other is still aspiring.



IthurstwhenIP said:


> damn, answer is always Prius but its so ugly that we make stories in our heads to justify an alternative


My other daughter has the Prius V wagon. This is actually kind of attractive. Too bad they got discontinued.

If you need an alternative, Camry, Avalon, Highlander, all available in hybrid form.


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## El Impulsador (Apr 29, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> Yea, well, that's true of most of the cars I grew up with.
> My 55 Chevy two door coupe being one of them.
> Used to 'drag the main' in that one in Richmond, CA in high school in 1969 - the summer of love.
> 
> ...


Oh dam, u an old ****. Dam , now I'm going to get charged with an enhancement for elder abuse when we meet for coffee


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

NicFit said:


> Yes but you still don't get the point, it looks cheaper then the rest of the cars no matter what you keep trying to argue about. I'm done here, no one else bother me with this, I don't want to keep arguing about how crappy Kias are. They are cheap junk cars I wouldn't be caught dead in. I would never own a Kia, to me it's just some cheap plastic and metal rolling around that's not even worth recycling


"No one else bother me with this", sounds like your temperament is as bad as the Kia quality you speak ill of.



UberBeemer said:


> I don't think he's talking down, just comparing why one is now a world class lux, and tge other is still aspiring.
> 
> 
> My other daughter has the Prius V wagon. This is actually kind of attractive. Too bad they got discontinued.
> ...


They are a value brand. I don't expect them to be leading edge, but they're priced at a good point for what they offer. It's not as much filet mignon as it is hamburger helper.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

TXUbering said:


> "No one else bother me with this", sounds like your temperament is as bad as the Kia quality you speak ill of.
> 
> 
> They are a value brand. I don't expect them to be leading edge, but they're priced at a good point for what they offer. It's not as much filet mignon as it is hamburger helper.


Arent they spinning off Genesis as an upscale marque?


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

MadTownUberD said:


> If you're driving UberX or UberEats, cost per mile over the time you own the vehicle is what matters. Pax don't pay extra for cool styling, and as long as the ride is reasonably comfortable ratings shouldn't suffer. And I can guarantee food delivery customers couldn't care less about what the car looks like.
> 
> So are you buying a car for business reasons or so you can feel good about yourself? It's up to you; answer the question for yourself.


This logic is 100% spot on.


----------



## Dave Bust (Jun 28, 2017)

NicFit said:


> They use cheaper parts, they don't last as long, the paint fades faster, more plastic everywhere





Monkeyman4394 said:


> They build engines that are inferior to those of their Japanese peers in terms of-simultaneously-power and fuel-efficiency.


then why did my v6 kia just hit 350k miles and still running strong?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Dave Bust said:


> then why did my v6 kia just hit 350k miles and still running strong?


How much did you you have to replace to get their? Or how much have you should of replaced by now because it's falling apart. And is it still worth replacing the engine if it goes? If it's not then you just driving a cheap car that somehow lasted, I doubt if the engine went you would fix it now


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

Honestly, good or not, its also perception. As seen here people see Honda / Toyota as the best, so Honda / Toyota can charge more and make more profit. Value or not. Its kinda like buying Walmart branded chocolate at $1.00 a bag vs hershey chocolate at $5 a bag.

So to entice people to buy, Kia / huyndai need lower prices to get people in as many people still see them as "inferior" or better but not "as good' or "lets try it since its cheaper" People probably still remember the Excel or the old Sonatas.…. it could be years before that thought of bad Hyundai reliability goes away.... 

If their quality / reputation improves though, they could soon be charging Toyota / honda prices and even surpassing them in reputation...especially with all the issues the newer toyotas and Hondas are having with all this new tech going into the cars.

Myself, i used to see Hyundai / Kia as junk and was only Toyota..... but now I see them as much improved and honestly I have my eye on what they are doing. Same with American cars.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> Arent they spinning off Genesis as an upscale marque?


They're a separate entity, like Lincoln and Cadillac. They're mostly sold at Hyundai dealerships. I'm all for value brands regardless of how well/bad they are. They keep the other car manufacturers honest. The Hyundai Sonata's park feature, I saw a similar feature in BMWs. If BMW sees that a value brand has the same tech as they do, it's going to force them to keep pushing the envelope with their innovation or bring their price down to compete.


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

Dave Bust said:


> then why did my v6 kia just hit 350k miles and still running strong?


How is that a measure of fuel-efficiency and/or power?


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> How is that a measure of fuel-efficiency and/or power?


I think it's a measure of durability, if I'm not mistaken. I definitely know it's not a measure of temperature, height, weight, volume, more surface area.... &#129300;


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

TXUbering said:


> They're a separate entity, like Lincoln and Cadillac. They're mostly sold at Hyundai dealerships. I'm all for value brands regardless of how well/bad they are. They keep the other car manufacturers honest. The Hyundai Sonata's park feature, I saw a similar feature in BMWs. If BMW sees that a value brand has the same tech as they do, it's going to force them to keep pushing the envelope with their innovation or bring their price down to compete.


Bmw is not following kia or Hyundai. They have offered plenty of tech before they did. Night vision, adaptive cruise, park assist...

The 7 series keyfob can be used to "drive" the car out of a parking space by dragging your finger over its little touch screen.

Check this out:





The areas where the korean brands are ewally competitive though, is performance and comfort. They are snappy, even the 4 bangers. And the seating is remarkable as far as legroom, at least in the optima i have been in. Even in the back seat.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

NicFit said:


> How much did you you have to replace to get their? Or how much have you should of replaced by now because it's falling apart. And is it still worth replacing the engine if it goes? If it's not then you just driving a cheap car that somehow lasted, I doubt if the engine went you would fix it now


I thought you were not only exceptionally wrong, but done?

You are wrong
WRONG
wrong
Wrong.

Your opinions are just that and they have so far had no proof to back them up.

Just your weird obsession with denigrating a good product

Hope the pay is good enough to look like the fool you look like.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> Bmw is not following kia or Hyundai. They have offered plenty of tech before they did. Night vision, adaptive cruise, park assist...
> 
> The 7 series keyfob can be used to "drive" the car out of a parking space by dragging your finger over its little touch screen.
> 
> ...


Lol, no no no, I'm not saying that BMW follows Kia, I am stating that BMW offers high end tech and that once Kia and Hyundai start offering similar tech, it forces BMW and other premium auto makers to inject more tech into their lineup. Kia and Hyundai are known for stealing styling cues from the other automakers, and so other automakers have to stay ahead or risk losing market share. If you look at the Stinger that I posted, the touchscreen sliding out from the dash is straight out of an Audi. Like I said, I'm ok with them trying to be 4/5ths audi/bmw/mercedes, etc. at 2/3rds the price. It keeps the pricing of the premium brands honest.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> I thought you were not only exceptionally wrong, but done?
> 
> You are wrong
> WRONG
> ...


I was done but you keep commenting on my posts, I'm just going to block the whole lot of you, it's a garbage car, no one with any sense buys one of these, they are junk. Every time I see a Kia I throw up a little in my mouth


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

NicFit said:


> I was done but you keep commenting on my posts, I'm just going to block the whole lot of you, it's a garbage car, no one with any sense buys one of these, they are junk. Every time I see a Kia I throw up a little in my mouth


Go for it!

Again.

Better quit while you are behind. Your opinion is yours but not supported by anything.

Have fun being wrong while not reading me saying how wrong you are.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> Go for it!
> 
> Again.
> 
> ...


Yes, Kia is what all the rappers drive and what all the super models pose on. Just because they are more reliable now doesn't make them an attractive car. To me they are nothing more then rolling trash cans, they might not break down like they use to but they are ugly and badly setup. And stop dragging me back into this conversation, I'm done discussing how I don't like this car, it's a cheap car for cheap people, I'm done and I won't change my mind about them


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

NicFit said:


> Yes, Kia is what all the rappers drive and what all the super models pose on. Just because they are more reliable now doesn't make them an attractive car. To me they are nothing more then rolling trash cans, they might not break down like they use to but they are ugly and badly setup. And stop dragging me back into this conversation, I'm done discussing how I don't like this car, it's a cheap car for cheap people, I'm done and I won't change my mind about them


The current models, are really nice looking. As attractive as any Honda. They have good stylists. Early on, they were kinda boxy and plain. But not anymore.

One thing about car threads. They are subjective. No point taking someone else's comments to heart.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

UberBeemer said:


> The current models, are really nice looking. As attractive as any Honda. They have good stylists. Early on, they were kinda boxy and plain. But not anymore.
> 
> One thing about car threads. They are subjective. No point taking someone else's comments to heart.


I think Honda's are ugly too, they look like amateur's designed them. They gross me out, I see most of these Asian cars and they just are ugly to me. Their whole style is just off, they are a turn off. And quit dragging me back into this conversation, I tried not hating on these cars but now I want nothing to do with them or this conversation


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

NicFit said:


> I think Honda's are ugly too, they look like amateur's designed them. They gross me out, I see most of these Asian cars and they just are ugly to me. Their whole style is just off, they are a turn off. And quit dragging me back into this conversation, I tried not hating on these cars but now I want nothing to do with them or this conversation


Nobody has a gun to your head. You can unfollow the thread, if you don't like where it leads.

Honda has some of the most appealing designs out now. You can tell, because most things they pioneer are emulated before long.

But they're obviously not everyone's cup of tea.


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## Stealth (Sep 8, 2020)

I always hear exhaust leaking sounds from Kia/Hyundai cars that aren't that old


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

KIA = great design so people will justify how awesome they are to be able to buy what they want. Like my EX getting a thousand dollar handbag and then telling me how its an investment, is much better made...blah blah....

when you hear KIA fanboys they are just in sy=uperficial love and have no mechanical sense

KIA = great design so people will justify how awesome they are to be able to buy what they want. Like my EX getting a thousand dollar handbag and then telling me how its an investment, is much better made...blah blah....

when you hear KIA fanboys they are just in sy=uperficial love and have no mechanical sense


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## Toocutetofail (Sep 14, 2018)




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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Toocutetofail said:


>


And in 2 days 
SCOTTY
will post a Video
" I WAS WRONG ABOUT . . . "

CLICK BAIT SCOTTY.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> And in 2 days
> SCOTTY
> will post a Video
> " I WAS WRONG ABOUT . . . "
> ...


I've listened probably one of his videos for about 2 minutes and that's it. What a freaking annoying know-it-all. &#129318;‍♂ No more clicking of his stuff for me.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> And in 2 days
> SCOTTY
> will post a Video
> " I WAS WRONG ABOUT . . . "
> ...


You can always tell, if a tube video has a ****** and a cartoon arro or banner, it MUST be irrefutable...

Not


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## MarlboroMan (Jun 7, 2017)

NicFit said:


> View attachment 534324
> View attachment 534325
> 
> 
> ...


Comparing caddy to a base model kia? Gotta get your brain checked out.



Young Kim said:


> My Toyota Prius currently has 260,000 miles on it and it hums like a kitten. The only thing I've ever done to it is change the water pump. At 225,000 miles. All my hondas and toyotas have never sputtered out on me, not even one single time. the only thing that made me get rid of them was they started rusting out.
> 
> My parents though always bought Hyundais, because they are korean. And they wanted to back korean made vehicles. And for the most part they all ran fine. And they cost a whole lot less than the japanese cars now.


I have a 2011 Prius with 260k. Did head gasket replacement, valve job, replaced fuel pump, recently changed shocks/ struts. Infotainment died a month ago. AC compressor replaced a year ago.
Hybrid battery still seems fine though.



NicFit said:


> Point is that they couldn't figure out how the cars are so cheap, once you start looking at them closely you start seeing why they are cheap cars. They don't look as good, they have bad messy button setups, they don't have very much trim or style pieces. You only made that clearer with these picks. I was comparing them so you can see why a Kia is cheap compared to the rest of the cars


Obviously you don't know crap about cars. Lol
It's very irritating to read your comments.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

MarlboroMan said:


> Comparing caddy to a base model kia? Gotta get your brain checked out.
> 
> 
> I have a 2011 Prius with 260k. Did head gasket replacement, valve job, replaced fuel pump, recently changed shocks/ struts. Infotainment died a month ago. AC compressor replaced a year ago.
> ...


And your another that is added to my banned list, I said I don't want to discuss how crappy these Korean cars are anymore and why they are considered cheap cars. By comparing it to a real car you can see why these Korean cars are just cheap junk and are priced like the junk they are.

And Prius are junk too, they don't even have full sized wheels, I think my garbage can has the same size wheels, probably why I always get the two confused, can't tell the difference when they both are used to move garbage around


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## MarlboroMan (Jun 7, 2017)

NicFit said:


> And your another that is added to my banned list, I said I don't want to discuss how crappy these Korean cars are anymore and why they are considered cheap cars. By comparing it to a real car you can see why these Korean cars are just cheap junk and are priced like the junk they are.
> 
> And Prius are junk too, they don't even have full sized wheels, I think my garbage can has the same size wheels, probably why I always get the two confused, can't tell the difference when they both are used to move garbage around


Got ya!! Peanut brain confirmed.&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

June132017 said:


> Kia has the worst air conditioners in the world. They work for 20 minutes then they don't work at all unless you install a thermostat. I think they made a bulletin about it, but didn't recall it. This was the 2007 model's and probably +/- 3 years that had this problem. My friend had the same problem so I know it's true.


You do not want me to list the garbage Ford has put into the 'Best selling truck in the world" the F-150. Yet idiots still buy those POS trucks because the imports don't want to build trucks, they make money with luxury vehicles.

The Chevy Silverado is another heap of trash.

The RAM has waffeled (I owned a first gen... great looking truck) but low build quality.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

NOXDriver said:


> The Chevy Silverado is another heap of trash.


I know they're not perfect, but please do tell. &#129300; And last I checked, at least some of these "imports" do make trucks. They don't import them, though, since they're made in the US.


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## Stealth (Sep 8, 2020)

NOXDriver said:


> You do not want me to list the garbage Ford has put into the 'Best selling truck in the world" the F-150. Yet idiots still buy those POS trucks because the imports don't want to build trucks, they make money with luxury vehicles.
> 
> The Chevy Silverado is another heap of trash.
> 
> The RAM has waffeled (I owned a first gen... great looking truck) but low build quality.


Toyota Tacoma, Tundra...


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Stealth said:


> Toyota Tacoma, Tundra...


Hilux


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> Hilux


Especially those with the 50cal bolted on the bed. :biggrin:


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

Stealth said:


> Toyota Tacoma, Tundra...


Tacomas are expensive for what they come options wise, plasticky interiors etc...and the Tundra is way obsolete in tech / fuel economy...although i think a new one is coming soon.....styling...IMO both ugly, but the Silverado got hideous with the last design.........BUT these two are probably the most reliable you can get these days!


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## LucyLoo (Nov 14, 2020)

Toyota Guy said:


> I sold cars off and on for twenty-five years from the eighties through 2016. During that time, Hyundai went from a complete POS to a brand that worked. However, during that time, I never saw one with more than 150,000 miles on the odometer. When I see one with over 200,000, I'll consider them worthy. For what we do, why anyone would buy anything other than Toy a toyota or Honda is beyond me.


Do you consider Lexus a toyota? I like BMW.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

LucyLoo said:


> Do you consider Lexus a toyota? I like BMW.


lexus is basically a premium Toyota. Same reliability but wrapped in a luxury shell and costs WAAYYY more to fix when it does need repair lol


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

sumidaj said:


> lexus is basically a premium Toyota. Same reliability but wrapped in a luxury shell and costs WAAYYY more to fix when it does need repair lol


75% of lexus parts are interchangeable with the Toyota parts. They just charge 70% more for the badge.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> 75% of lexus parts are interchangeable with the Toyota parts. They just charge 70% more for the badge.


yup!

My friend paid 3x??? to have the same part on his ES300 changed as I did for my Camry...same part, just in a lexus box LOL the parts were interchangeable


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

sumidaj said:


> Tacomas are expensive for what they come options wise, plasticky interiors etc...and the Tundra is way obsolete in tech / fuel economy...although i think a new one is coming soon.....styling...IMO both ugly


Careful now. The Upeadotnet Toyota Mafia might get upset here...  I know they're more about their 4Runners. Same thing, anyway...

@Daisey77 :whistling::biggrin:


----------



## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

TomTheAnt said:


> Careful now. The Upeadotnet Toyota Mafia might get upset here...  I know they're more about their 4Runners. Same thing, anyway...
> 
> @Daisey77 :whistling::biggrin:


Hey, I drive / promote Toyota BUT I do say it like it is! lol

I'm more blunt / open that that Scotty Kilmer dude.


----------



## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

sumidaj said:


> yup!
> 
> My friend paid 3x??? to have the same part on his ES300 changed as I did for my Camry...same part, just in a lexus box LOL the parts were interchangeable


Luxury Car, luxury cost. 
Don't buy a premium brand unless you have premium extra money.


----------



## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Luxury Car, luxury cost.
> Don't buy a premium brand unless you have premium extra money.


Yup!


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ford does one thing right,

They make a good light utility base for commercial vehicles.

Truck chasis for commercial applications.










This is their niche and this is what they do best, their Sedans are not the best, i'd rather have a toyota.

But hands down when you need a plaform for a tow truck or a box truck you want a ford.










This is what they do best, this is ford doing what comes naturally. Making light vehicles for heavy lifting and heavy use. Most of U-hauls trucks get 100s of thousands of miles, because they are built to handle it.

This is ford's bread and butter, their true achievement is this platform.










I myself am the proud owner of an f-250 truck i use for long hauls with my RV trailer.

I got it to be a big huge ass truck for towing and long highway trips. I can barely park it in a single spot, and it doesn't really fit. I park at the far end of the parking lot at the airport when i drive it to work so I can asshole park (double park) and i wouldn't take it to the cab company as finding one spot takes long enough, let alone two double park that beast.

It gets horrible fuel economy but it does what i got it for, towing.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Ford does one thing right,
> 
> They make a good light utility base for commercial vehicles.
> 
> ...


True. they make a good work vehicle and truck for commercial use....

but I apologize but I'm not sure I understand the purpose for this Ford advertisement in this thread?


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

TomTheAnt said:


> Careful now. The Upeadotnet Toyota Mafia might get upset here...  I know they're more about their 4Runners. Same thing, anyway...
> 
> @Daisey77 :whistling::biggrin:


There's nothing even comprable to a 4Runner on the market! It's Not our fault. Don't be hating on the fabulous 4Runner &#128517;


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> There's nothing even comprable to a 4Runner on the market! It's Not our fault. Don't be hating on the fabulous 4Runner &#128517;


The new Bronco is pretty damn good! We shall see how it ages, but as a 4X4 it has 4 varieties that are better than a 4 runner / Hilux. I own two Hilux in Johannesburg.


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## UberApfel (Jul 5, 2020)

Korean cars have come a long way and they've been the 'value buy' for several years now approx. 2011+ model years. Before them, Japanese car like Honda and Toyota were the 'value buy' approx 2005-2015, after they finally got their transmissions right, and began to address the airbag/seatbelt problem. However, all brands cycle in quality. Once the fight is over, the engineers and founders who paved the way retire and the company is left to parasites with nice resumes, hence why Ford & GM had such a bad period. Meanwhile, Chrysler/Fiat has basically embraced being shit.

Right now the word is out that Honda and Toyota are reliable; thus, they're overpriced, especially the used cars. The time to buy a Honda/Toyota was 10 years ago. Smart people are currently buying hybrid Fords cheap, and maybe in 2025 some Youtuber will tell you why you should've done that.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> There's nothing even comprable to a 4Runner on the market! It's Not our fault. Don't be hating on the fabulous 4Runner &#128517;


Hey now... I was actually this > < close to buying a nice 06 4Runner to flip last week. Probably could've made a little on it, but decided against it since it wasn't a 4WD. Guess I should've bought so I could figure out what all the fuss is about. :biggrin:


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Alantc said:


> I have a 2018 tucson awd, not much power very slugish with ac on. Seatbelts don't retrack well always getting caught in the door, seatbelt doesn't ping on passenger side only blinks a light witch I miss alot when not worn, lots of riders think the door is locked because the handle doesn't click when pulling the handle, always telling them it doesn't click ,Backup camera very granny. It does have a smooth ride though, just a lot of annoying things for a car to use for ride-sharing.


You get what you pay for. All those bells and whistles in the Hyundi and Kia must come from cutting corners somewhere else. That is the only positive i see with Korean cars. You get lot of value for your money, but the quality is not included with that. That's why you pay premium for a Toyota or Honda.



Young Kim said:


> My Toyota Prius currently has 260,000 miles on it and it hums like a kitten. The only thing I've ever done to it is change the water pump. At 225,000 miles. All my hondas and toyotas have never sputtered out on me, not even one single time. the only thing that made me get rid of them was they started rusting out.
> 
> My parents though always bought Hyundais, because they are korean. And they wanted to back korean made vehicles. And for the most part they all ran fine. And they cost a whole lot less than the japanese cars now.


Surprised that the battery has not lost range on the Hybrid system?


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> The new Bronco is pretty damn good! We shall see how it ages, but as a 4X4 it has 4 varieties that are better than a 4 runner / Hilux. I own two Hilux in Johannesburg.


I was actually very excited when I heard they were bringing back the Bronco. I will admit I've not done much research on it though. I was hoping I could get some info from my passengers but they don't seem to know much about it either. So I need to read up on it. I used to have a 91 Ford Bronco



TomTheAnt said:


> Hey now... I was actually this > < close to buying a nice 06 4Runner to flip last week. Probably could've made a little on it, but decided against it since it wasn't a 4WD. Guess I should've bought so I could figure out what all the fuss is about. :biggrin:b


No, you did the right thing by passing it up if it's not 4WD. That's what makes a 4Runner a 4Runner. I don't even understand why they sell two wheel drive 4Runners. I understand not every place needs 4WD vehicles but the 4Runner was built for off-roading. How much off roading can you do without 4WD? It defeats the whole purpose of a 4Runner! Plus you need to be able to Romp through the snow. They're beasts in the snow I'm telling you

&#128525;&#128525;&#128525;&#128525;
https://images.app.goo.gl/kpFc5EXYiyJohgV56


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> I was actually very excited when I heard they were bringing back the Bronco. I will admit I've not done much research on it though. I was hoping I could get some info from my passengers but they don't seem to know much about it either. So I need to read up on it. I used to have a 91 Ford Bronco


Yeah, brings back memories of OJ Simpson in a Bronco being followed by 10 LAPD police cars. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> I was actually very excited when I heard they were bringing back the Bronco. I will admit I've not done much research on it though. I was hoping I could get some info from my passengers but they don't seem to know much about it either. So I need to read up on it. I used to have a 91 Ford Bronco
> 
> 
> No, you did the right thing by passing it up if it's not 4WD. That's what makes a 4Runner a 4Runner. I don't even understand why they sell two wheel drive 4Runners. I understand not every place needs 4WD vehicles but the 4Runner was built for off-roading. How much off roading can you do without 4WD? It defeats the whole purpose of a 4Runner! Plus you need to be able to Romp through the snow. They're beasts in the snow I'm telling you
> ...


How much off-roading does the average 4 Runner owner do?


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> How much off-roading does the average 4 Runner owner do?


Out here? A lot. They're still hitting the trails here and we're dead in the middle of the winter! LOL in fact a group of guys were just asking about what trails they could possibly hit tomorrow in a 4Runner Facebook group. They're trying to figure out what trails they would be safe hitting with the equipment they had. They weren't super built up but typically you don't really need it but it is snow packed and icy up there right now

Some girl posted this video couple weekends ago. 4 Tundras found themselves in a situation LOL 6 trucks were up on some trail. When four of them started to go down at steep decline. They didn't allow proper spacing obviously but even worse they had no chains or recovery gear whatsoever! I think they said it took over three hundred man-hours to get them all down. The two that stayed behind were cool but these four said as soon as they started down they realize it was just one big ice chute!! &#128517;&#129318;‍♀



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2444393765856972


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## Monkeyman4394 (Jun 27, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Out here? A lot. They're still hitting the trails here and we're dead in the middle of the winter! LOL in fact a group of guys were just asking about what trails they could possibly hit tomorrow in a 4Runner Facebook group. They're trying to figure out what trails they would be safe hitting with the equipment they had. They weren't super built up but typically you don't really need it but it is snow packed and icy up there right now
> 
> Some girl posted this video couple weekends ago. 4 Tundras found themselves in a situation LOL 6 trucks were up on some trail. When four of them started to go down at steep decline. They didn't allow proper spacing obviously but even worse they had no chains or recovery gear whatsoever! I think they said it took over three hundred man-hours to get them all down. The two that stayed behind were cool but these four said as soon as they started down they realize it was just one big ice chute!! &#128517;&#129318;‍♀
> 
> ...


Still, most of them probably come closest to off-road when they park in the grass at their kids' soccer games.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macrumors.com/2021/01/07/apple-car-hyundai-negotiations/amp/


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Monkeyman4394 said:


> Still, most of them probably come closest to off-road when they park in the grass at their kids' soccer games.


Oh I don't know about those kind. Those kind are not my people&#128581;‍♀ &#129325; honestly from the passengers I talked to, those types of people generally go for a . . . Subaru LOL no I don't know about a Subaru but they generally don't even go with a 4Runner. You can tell those kind of people right away because they don't appreciate the 4Runner for what it really is. They just hear good things about it and it sounds cool but when they go check them out, they are disappointed. They don't understand why people spend that kind of money on a very "basic" vehicle. They want all the bells and whistles. . . They want luxury if they're going to be spending that kind of money.&#129335;‍♀


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> They're beasts in the snow I'm telling you


What is this "snow" you speak of...? :whistling:

Again, it wouldn't have been for me but for flipping. Probably would've driven it for a while, though. I don't need another 4WD, 4Runner or what ever, since my truck has that and has plenty of capability when ever needed. :thumbup:


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## LucyLoo (Nov 14, 2020)

sumidaj said:


> yup!
> 
> My friend paid 3x??? to have the same part on his ES300 changed as I did for my Camry...same part, just in a lexus box LOL the parts were interchangeable


Wow
\



sumidaj said:


> lexus is basically a premium Toyota. Same reliability but wrapped in a luxury shell and costs WAAYYY more to fix when it does need repair lol


Thanks for the heads up.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

LucyLoo said:


> Wow
> \
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up.


no prob. You get a nicer car, but at a not nicer price lol


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> Out here? A lot. They're still hitting the trails here and we're dead in the middle of the winter! LOL in fact a group of guys were just asking about what trails they could possibly hit tomorrow in a 4Runner Facebook group. They're trying to figure out what trails they would be safe hitting with the equipment they had. They weren't super built up but typically you don't really need it but it is snow packed and icy up there right now
> 
> Some girl posted this video couple weekends ago. 4 Tundras found themselves in a situation LOL 6 trucks were up on some trail. When four of them started to go down at steep decline. They didn't allow proper spacing obviously but even worse they had no chains or recovery gear whatsoever! I think they said it took over three hundred man-hours to get them all down. The two that stayed behind were cool but these four said as soon as they started down they realize it was just one big ice chute!! &#128517;&#129318;‍♀
> 
> ...


A Wrangler with chains would climb right up that!

YJ's forever!!


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> A Wrangler with chains would climb right up that!
> 
> YJ's forever!!


 These guys would have been fine with chains too. They kind of got what they deserved. Either all six are just complete Morons or all 6 were complete noobs. Either way they did not respect the mountain
Mountain -6
Noobs - 0

I just can't believe out of six of them or more if they had two per truck, not one of them thought maybe we should take chains or maybe we should take recovery gear or hey guys one at a time or even just allow plenty of space&#129318;‍♀&#129318;‍♀

The worst part - chances are they're going to have to pay for all of this out of pocket. Insurance generally won't pay for these repairs because we chose to be reckless with our vehicle


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

OK. You guys wanna talk about off roading ... I gotta tell you about my 76 Jeep CJ5 with a Buick 225 V6 Dauntless. Four speed with a two speed splitter. Posi front, and locking hubs on all four. 
Now, THAT was a vehicle that would climb a tree and not spin a tire. It took me places that made my sphincter pucker up to the point where I didn't NEED a seatbelt; if ya know what I mean.

Pig hunting an area that I'd never hunted before. Wifey is with me. Hunt is over, end of the day, standing about the campfire passing a bottle and talking about the days hunt. My turn. "We went thru the dry creek, and made a right a 'the chair' to the top of the hill ...."
A guy interrupts: "Wait, wait. You walked to the top of the hill?"
"No. Hell no. I drove to the top of the hill to glass the valley ..."
"You can't get to the top of that hill in a Jeep."
"Well, nobody told me that. THAT Jeep right there " pointing at my Jeep "went to the top of that hill."
Wifey is nodding the whole time.
"Weellll, I have a tough time believing that .... "

"When we go out tomorrow, you jump in your Toyota and follow me - I'll show you."

He slept in that morning, and wifey and I ... with two other hunters watching _went to the top of that hill _to glass the valley below.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)




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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Amos69 said:


>


Love it! Now my lil ol heart is pounding out of excitement &#128525;


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## The super uber (May 23, 2020)

mbd said:


> Nothing wrong with the Korean cars, maybe one step below Toyota ..
> https://www.hyundainews.com/en-us/releases/2019


Baloney...my Hyundai 2016 Sonata, Hybrid, limited edition has 175,000 and is the ideal Uber car. 42 to 45 MPG. Lifetime guarantee on the main battery. Compare that to a 4 cylinder Toyota or Honda. Hyundai does it with engineering design and they probably work on lower profit margin to gain market share


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

The super uber said:


> Baloney...my Hyundai 2016 Sonata, Hybrid, limited edition has 175,000 and is the ideal Uber car. 42 to 45 MPG. Lifetime guarantee on the main battery. Compare that to a 4 cylinder Toyota or Honda. Hyundai does it with engineering design and they probably work on lower profit margin to gain market share


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

I have owned 2 Kias loved them both.very reliable good cars. I now.drive a 2013 Hyundai. Sonata hybrid with 153000 miles. Get 38 city and 50.hwy in a luxurius.full sized car' I have done nothing but routine.maintenance.


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## Stealth (Sep 8, 2020)

UberApfel said:


> Korean cars have come a long way and they've been the 'value buy' for several years now approx. 2011+ model years. Before them, Japanese car like Honda and Toyota were the 'value buy' approx 2005-2015, after they finally got their transmissions right, and began to address the airbag/seatbelt problem. However, all brands cycle in quality. Once the fight is over, the engineers and founders who paved the way retire and the company is left to parasites with nice resumes, hence why Ford & GM had such a bad period. Meanwhile, Chrysler/Fiat has basically embraced being shit.
> 
> Right now the word is out that Honda and Toyota are reliable; thus, they're overpriced, especially the used cars. The time to buy a Honda/Toyota was 10 years ago. Smart people are currently buying hybrid Fords cheap, and maybe in 2025 some Youtuber will tell you why you should've done that.


Mazda is the present day Toyota

Reliable and packed with features and cheaper than Honda and Toyota


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Stealth said:


> Mazda is the present day Toyota
> 
> Reliable and packed with features and cheaper than Honda and Toyota


And soon to be gone from these shores.

Sales are beyond abysmal and that was before covid


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## Stealth (Sep 8, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> And soon to be gone from these shores.
> 
> Sales are beyond abysmal and that was before covid


Not really. It's a small company and their cars are still being made in Japan.

I have a Toyota and just recently bought a Mazda.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Stealth said:


> Not really. It's a small company and their cars are still being made in Japan.
> 
> I have a Toyota and just recently bought a Mazda.


*OK*


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> *OK*


Off subject but I must know, how the hell did you change the background on your profile? Lol
I accidentally clicked on your profile instead of your reply to one of my posts LOL


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> Off subject but I must know, how the hell did you change the background on your profile? Lol
> I accidentally clicked on your profile instead of your reply to one of my posts LOL
> 
> View attachment 548271
> ...


Pretty sure it's the Profile Banner in your Account Settings page.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

TomTheAnt said:


> Pretty sure it's the Profile Banner in your Account Settings page.
> 
> View attachment 548329


yip, just under the avatar is banner


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## UberApfel (Jul 5, 2020)

Stealth said:


> Mazda is the present day Toyota
> 
> Reliable and packed with features and cheaper than Honda and Toyota


Mazda is royally ****ed, unfortunately. They're known for 2 things, the rotary engine, and being married to Ford for 40 years. Although they're objectively superior to Subaru, people who buy Subaru don't know that, and people who know better aren't going to buy Mazda either.


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## Stealth (Sep 8, 2020)

UberApfel said:


> Mazda is royally @@@@ed, unfortunately. They're known for 2 things, the rotary engine, and being married to Ford for 40 years. Although they're objectively superior to Subaru, people who buy Subaru don't know that, and people who know better aren't going to buy Mazda either.


Mazdas are selling just fine. Auto journalists praise them and it's now ranked #1 in reliability ahead of Toyota and Lexus.


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

Stealth said:


> Mazdas are selling just fine. Auto journalists praise them and it's now ranked #1 in reliability ahead of Toyota and Lexus.


Don't tell Scotty Kilmer that lol


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

sumidaj said:


> Scotty Kilmer


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## sumidaj (Nov 2, 2020)

TomTheAnt said:


> View attachment 549953


REV UP YOUR ENGINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

sumidaj said:


> REV UP YOUR ENGINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Shields UP.
Arm photon torpedoes!

General Quarters ~~!!
(Half dollars even.)


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## UberApfel (Jul 5, 2020)

Stealth said:


> Mazdas are selling just fine. Auto journalists praise them and it's now ranked #1 in reliability ahead of Toyota and Lexus.


You people actually buy non-hybrids? And then use them for Uber? Christ.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

UberApfel said:


> You people actually buy non-hybrids? And then use them for Uber? Christ.


Yup. And with a big damn V8, too! &#129304;What's your point? &#129335;‍♂:biggrin:


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