# Holly Smokes Batman - another Safe Ride Fee thread!!!



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

To give (another) perspective of how much profit the Safe Ride Fee brings into Uber and how much it is COSTING drivers, lets ask this question:
_
At a 20% Uber Commission and a $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, if Uber DID NOT charge a Safe Ride Fee but instead RAISED Fare Rates in order to still net $1.65 in additional commission charged per Trip, how much would Uber need to raise Fare Rates per Trip?_

To be conservative but representative, let's use a major market like Los Angeles, with a grandfathered uberx driver Uber Commission of 20%.

Uber Commish: 20% *
Safe Ride Fee: $1.65 **

 * As of Oct 2015, newly onboarded uberx Drivers in LA are at 25% Commission on uberx.
20% is the grandfathered per Oct 2015 20% Commission

** Los Angeles, at $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, is at the low end. Many other cities in the US, Uber charges $2+ for the Safe Ride Fee.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

As a previous business owner here is how I see it, and don't get me wrong I would prefer a rate increase that we actually get vs a SRF but it is the nature of business to fix where you are falling short.

SRF is designed to pay for certain aspects of the business, insurance, background checks, lawyers, etc.
Commission are for day to day operations, payroll, offices, etc.

if they are falling short on insurance, you know where your shortfall is and what has to be raised. They probably realized they were falling short as their insurance premium raises the more drivers they onboard, the more drivers have accidents and the more background checks they have to pay for.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm terrible at math
But any way you splice it
All I hear is big scam


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

limepro said:


> As a previous business owner here is how I see it, and don't get me wrong I would prefer a rate increase that we actually get vs a SRF but it is the nature of business to fix where you are falling short.
> 
> SRF is designed to pay for certain aspects of the business, insurance, background checks, lawyers, etc.
> Commission are for day to day operations, payroll, offices, etc.
> ...


As a previous business owner. Nope. That's not the reason.

So back to my question and the topic of this thread. Anyone up to the math?


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

SCdave said:


> As a previous business owner. Nope. That's not the reason.
> 
> So back to my question and the topic of this thread. Anyone up to the math?


It is a 2 trains question, there are many factors. Are we basing it on an average of 5 miles per trip, 10 miles per trip? Let's say Uber wants to make an extra dollar on each trip.

10 mile trip @ $1/mile Uber makes .20 on each mile or $2 they would need to raise their rates 50% in order to reach $1 more on that same trip.

5 mile trip @ $1/mile Uber makes $1 the rate per mile would have to be 100% more.

20 mile trip @ $1/mile Uber makes $4 rates would have to be 25% higher.

It isn't cut and dry, I think rates nationwide should be x $1.50/mile uberxl $2/mile and select $2.50/mile with the other services based upon area as they aren't nationwide. Those that only have uberx are normally around $1.80/mile.


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## livelysoul (Nov 8, 2015)

SCdave said:


> To give (another) perspective of how much profit the Safe Ride Fee brings into Uber and how much it is COSTING drivers, lets ask this question:
> _
> At a 20% Uber Commission and a $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, if Uber DID NOT charge a Safe Ride Fee but instead RAISED Fare Rates in order to still net $1.65 in additional commission charged per Trip, how much would Uber need to raise Fare Rates per Trip?_
> 
> ...


I had spoken to a rider who regularly visits the USA and had told me that Uber had increased their percentage in commission to 28%? Perhaps this so called 'Safe Ride Share' is built into this 28% and some rumours circulating that similar conditions will be imposed on Australian Uber Drivers.


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## livelysoul (Nov 8, 2015)

livelysoul said:


> I had spoken to a rider who regularly visits the USA and had told me that Uber had increased their percentage in commission to 28%? Perhaps this so called 'Safe Ride Share' is built into this 28% and some rumours circulating that similar conditions will be imposed on Australian Uber Drivers.


In Australia, switching on the meter starts $6.00. If they increased this to $7.00 (At the similar rate) and reducing the Surge Charges from @4.2x limiting down to 'MAXIMUM' @2x, not only the turnover would increase but also it would be a win, win, win situation! (Customers, Drivers and of course Uber as the turnover / demand is bound to increase )When people see the possible costs beforehand on their screens, they cancel immediately and opt for Yellow Cabs here in Melbourne, Australia which are much cheaper.


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## Matty760 (Nov 9, 2015)

Here in Palm Springs the fee is $1.95 with the Min fare being at $5.95, which means Uber still takes their 20% off $4. With Lyft who also just raised their fee to $2.45 they add that to the fare and take 20% off the full total. So hate to say it but Lyft is better in this case. It would be better if Uber just took 20% off the $5.95 min fare here in PS, but they wanna make sure they get that full $1.95 no matter what since with Lyft of the $4 they only get 80 cents, just another way to charge the customer more and Uber gets that extra money and the driver doesnt... Way to keep your drivers happy Uber.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Here's another question: the insurance is more likely to get used the longer the trip. So why is the SRF not tied to trip length? I'm much more likely to have an accident driving 50 miles than 2 blocks (yes I've done 2 block trips) so why isn't the SRF less for those short trips?

We'll we all know why. Because it's not about the damn insurance, it's about more money coming in. You expect us to.think uber has 2 pots of gold and they pay insurance out of one and office staff out of the other? They have one pot. All the money goes in there and it wasn't enough. So they raised the portion they get 100% of.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

SCdave said:


> To give (another) perspective of how much profit the Safe Ride Fee brings into Uber and how much it is COSTING drivers, lets ask this question:
> _
> At a 20% Uber Commission and a $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, if Uber DID NOT charge a Safe Ride Fee but instead RAISED Fare Rates in order to still net $1.65 in additional commission charged per Trip, how much would Uber need to raise Fare Rates per Trip?_
> 
> ...


Remember the papa johns pizza owner who instead of adding $0.11 per pizza to have health insurance cover all of his employees, he instead chose be a ...... just to oppose obamacare.

I will never put a slice of papa johns pizza in my mouth ever again. Lifetime boycott.

My point is, uber is like the papa johns guy, they would rather not raise prices when it would only be something like 0.05%


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Let's just say that Uber actually needs the Safe Ride Fee (not wants but really gotta have, must get it to survive, and if they don't they are shutting the doors on the Rideshare/TNC business kind of need).

We will say, as a hypothetical, that the funds the Safe Ride Fee provide are essential. But as part of this argument, we will also use a pricing model of Fare Rates with no Surcharge, like the Safe Ride Fee.

Sooo, the Uber Mothership must add, in Los Angeles for example, enough to the Fare so that each Trip will generate an additional $1.65 to the Total Fare. But it can't be a surcharge with 100% going to Uber. It will be a RAISE in the Fare Rate with 20% going to Uber.

I'm gonna Copy & Paste my original question:

_ At a 20% Uber Commission and a $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, if Uber DID NOT charge a Safe Ride Fee but instead RAISED Fare Rates in order to still net $1.65 in additional commission charged per Trip, how much would Uber need to raise Fare Rates per Trip?_

To be conservative but representative, let's use a major market like Los Angeles, with a grandfathered uberx driver Uber Commission of 20%.

Uber Commish: 20% *
Safe Ride Fee: $1.65 **


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## ten25 (Oct 4, 2015)

Unless I am misunderstanding something the safe ride fee doesn't effect driver pay at all.

Minimum fare before the SRF increase in my area was $5.00, now it is $5.90 ...

$5.00 - $1.00 (old SRF) is $4.00

$5.90 - $1.90 (new SRF) is $4.00

Either way the fare is $4.00 less Uber's cut.

If the fare is $10.00 with the new safe ride fee, it would have been a $9.10 fare with the lower safe ride fee and either way driver gets $8.10 less Uber's cut.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

ten25 said:


> Unless I am misunderstanding something the safe ride fee doesn't effect driver pay at all.
> 
> Minimum fare before the SRF increase in my area was $5.00, now it is $5.90 ...
> 
> ...


While you Payment Statement Calculations are correct, the Safe Ride Fee is money out of each and every Driver's pocket.

Really, the process and result of doing the math brings us back to "why the SRF is a huge hit to the Drivers net profit". I did it in my car in-between Trips.

But let's keep to the Thread topic.

_At a 20% Uber Commission and a $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, if Uber DID NOT charge a Safe Ride Fee but instead RAISED Fare Rates in order to still net $1.65 in additional commission charged per Trip, how much would Uber need to raise Fare Rates per Trip?_

Anyone?


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## ten25 (Oct 4, 2015)

What I'm getting at is they can charge a safe ride fee (or not) but unless they get rid of it and keep fare minimums the same and/or increase rates, it won't effect our pay - how much the safe ride is, is irrelevant to our pay so long as the minimum fare is increased equally to the safe ride fee increase.

They should definitely increase fares - there isn't even any competition in Kansas City, they could easily charge $1.50 a mile and be by far the cheapest game in town.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Anyone can correct me but here is what I came up with.

_At a 20% Uber Commission and a $1.65 Safe Ride Fee, if Uber DID NOT charge a Safe Ride Fee but instead RAISED Fare Rates in order to still net $1.65 in additional commission charged per Trip, how much would Uber need to raise Fare Rates per Trip?_

...plus $8.25 per Trip.


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## livelysoul (Nov 8, 2015)

limepro said:


> As a previous business owner here is how I see it, and don't get me wrong I would prefer a rate increase that we actually get vs a SRF but it is the nature of business to fix where you are falling short.
> 
> SRF is designed to pay for certain aspects of the business, insurance, background checks, lawyers, etc.
> Commission are for day to day operations, payroll, offices, etc.
> ...


The Surge Prices should, under no circumstances be higher than @2x! However, switching on meter should be increased by $1.00 which doesn't only give incentive to the drivers but also encourage the riders to stay loyal to Uber X. Up [email protected] Surge Price is bit too much!


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

The Safe Ride Fee (SRF) allows Uber to keep increasing a Surcharge (the SRF) to increase their net profit but not RAISE Fares in order to increase Uber AND Driver Net Profits. It's a win-win for Uber and a WTF for the Drivers.

The SRF is a cash generator for Uber that indirectly is taking money out of the pockets of each and every driver.

Why, it has allowed Uber NOT to RAISE fares in order to generate increased profits.

If you think that the SRF is not important to Drivers or not a big deal or because Uber Adds it to the Fare and then subtracts it so the net is Zero. On the surface, yes, but think a bit more about this.

The Safe Ride Fee allows uber NOT to RAISE Fare Rates which are how the Driver makes money. WHAT?

Again, the SRF allows Uber to not raise fare rates. If they need to show investors a higher return on investment, what does Uber do? They add a surcharge, now known as the Safe Ride Fee. They then increase the Surcharge as much as the want.

Uber keeps 100% of that higher SRF while at the same time decreasing rates. In reality, Riders might actually pay the SRF but in reality, all drivers, you and I, are the ones paying for it.

The SRF Surcharge is just another one of those bullet points in the Uber pitch to investors where the investors asks, " Can you guys really do that "? Uber says, "Sure, we have and we just raised them again". The investor says, " But, won't regulators stop you or drivers not support it since it is money out of the pockets of drivers"? And Uber just says, " Nope, we can do anything we want ". Investor says, " So how many zeros do I put on the check"?

Now, if Uber pays for all my Insurance (Hybrid or Commercial), no, not just liability but a complete Full Hybrid Coverage with a $250 deductible that covers me at all times I'm driving as a "Driving Service", then I'm good with the SRF. Heck, I'm a Driver, I'm paying the SRF to Uber anyway.


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## livelysoul (Nov 8, 2015)

SCdave said:


> The Safe Ride Fee (SRF) allows Uber to keep increasing a Surcharge (the SRF) to increase their net profit but not RAISE Fares in order to increase Uber AND Driver Net Profits. It's a win-win for Uber and a WTF for the Drivers.
> 
> The SRF is a cash generator for Uber that indirectly is taking money out of the pockets of each and every driver.
> 
> ...


As I always say, Uber is ideal for the ones who are willing to supplement their incomes with the least headache. Between-10-15 hours a week even for 40 weeks in a year can potentially and reasonably bring a driver $9,000.00 per year (I speak for Australia of course and this amount is after all the expenses are deducted, i.e. insurance, service, petrol, etc. leaves around $15.00 per hour taxable income hence, we might as well drop this surplus down to $8,000.00 clear. Enough for a decent holiday for two!)

Anyone in his right mind, who is willing to commit himself to Uber on a full-time basis is an idiot.


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## FlDriver (Oct 16, 2015)

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> Remember the papa johns pizza owner who instead of adding $0.11 per pizza to have health insurance cover all of his employees, he instead chose be a ...... just to oppose obamacare.
> 
> I will never put a slice of papa johns pizza in my mouth ever again. Lifetime boycott.


I'm sure losing your business has severely damaged the company. What about the millions of people who hate Obamacare and might switch to Papa John's because they agree with the decision? Or the even larger number of people who don't give a crap and just want pizza?


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## FlDriver (Oct 16, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> I'm terrible at math
> But any way you splice it
> All I hear is big scam


Look up the meaning of scam. A scam would be if Uber said they will pay us $1 per mile, then pay less than that. Or if they guaranteed a certain hourly net income and didn't deliver on it.

They are paying me exactly what they promised to. That's hardly a scam. As for them raising fees that the riders pay for, that doesn't affect me unless I order a ride.

Would I like to see them raise the rates to something like $1.25 or $1.50 a mile so I could make more yet the price would still be attractive to customers compared to taxis? Yes, but I don't have control over that.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

FlDriver said:


> Look up the meaning of scam. A scam would be if Uber said they will pay us $1 per mile, then pay less than that. Or if they guaranteed a certain hourly net income and didn't deliver on it.
> 
> They are paying me exactly what they promised to. That's hardly a scam. As for them raising fees that the riders pay for, that doesn't affect me unless I order a ride.
> 
> Would I like to see them raise the rates to something like $1.25 or $1.50 a mile so I could make more yet the price would still be attractive to customers compared to taxis? Yes, but I don't have control over that.


How about

Egg shell game-ish


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

FlDriver said:


> Look up the meaning of scam. A scam would be if Uber said they will pay us $1 per mile, then pay less than that. Or if they guaranteed a certain hourly net income and didn't deliver on it.
> 
> They are paying me exactly what they promised to. That's hardly a scam. As for them raising fees that the riders pay for, that doesn't affect me unless I order a ride.
> 
> Would I like to see them raise the rates to something like $1.25 or $1.50 a mile so I could make more yet the price would still be attractive to customers compared to taxis? Yes, but I don't have control over that.


Not true. Think about it more.


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