# Forced 8 hours off on Lyft



## CoolHandLuck

So I worked a long day yesterday, logged on as a driver for probably 11 1/2 hours and knocked off at midnight. My plan was to get up early and drive during the day so I can take the rest of the 4th of July off to spend time with family. I slept 7 hours, logged in, gave one Lyft and then got kicked off the system saying I had worked 12 hours and needed to take an 8 hour break.

While I appreciate the safety concerns, I'm effectively locked out until 330p which is when I was quitting anyway. So now this another piece of the Lyft system that I'll have to game in the future. By their method, I could work 11 hours 59 minutes, log off, log back in 7 hours 59 minutes later, work one minute, and then get kicked off for 8 hours effectively not working for 16 hours. 

I've been driving for Lyft for three weeks, I get no official information from them, have no mentor, no kit yet so I couldn't even be in "trade dress" if I wanted to and get all my info from non official sources. I could easily have gotten impounded at LAX over the past week if I did everything they officially sanctioned. Wow. Some "community" they have.


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## LAuberX

I think of the Uber "driver of the week" that gives 180+ rides... and the customer who told me their Uber driver had fallen asleep on PCH while driving them...

How tired some of our fellow drivers must be. Instead of calling it quits at 3 a.m., how many just keep going into the next day?


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## grams777

CoolHandLuck said:


> By their method, I could work 11 hours 59 minutes, log off, log back in 7 hours 59 minutes later, work one minute, and then get kicked off for 8 hours effectively not working for 16 hours.


Correct. Always make sure with Lyft you get out of driver mode and note the time. Wait at least 8 1/2 hours or so before starting again if you are pulling full shifts. Do not do something like go into driver mode between shifts even for 1 minute to check if it's busy! This will start your 8 hour rest all over.

The way it works is, it cumulatively adds your driver mode time. And until you take 8 consecutive hours off, it will forever keep counting and kick you off after 12 hours have been counted. You could even drive for 1 hour and sleep for 7, and still get kicked out after the 12th time you did this - even though you drove for 12 hours but had slept for 84 hours. This has some rather strange side effects, especially if you do something like work several busy hours, nap/rest for 6 hours, leave the phone on while your sleeping/resting, or whatever.

Another consequence is it can encourage drivers to get out of driver mode when the chances of a ping are low. So, you're driving back from way far away and are pretty sure you won't get pinged till you get back. Extend your drive time by getting out of driver mode until you get back in range.

Probably a more appropriate system would just be to count cumulative 8 hours of rest rather than consecutive. So in your case, after another hour off, you could have been back on the road. It's not perfect, but is probably a better balance.


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## ElectroFuzz

I know how you feel but....
IMHO the 8 hour rest after a 12 hour day makes sense.
There are plenty of things to get pissed about, this is not one of them.

On the plus side, now that you know how they operate you can better plan ahead.


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## HDGator

Truck drivers are required 8 hours rest, accept it or it will be regulated. It is coming..


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## grams777

HDGator said:


> Truck drivers are required 8 hours rest, accept it or it will be regulated. It is coming..


Yeah, wait until you get rules like this:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-of-service

Pull over mr TNC driver. Let me see your log book.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/2014_HOS_Logbook_Examples_508.pdf

Ok, now let's see trade dress, commercial insurance, airport sticker, city permit/puc registration, vehicle registration, personal insurance...awwww, missed one. Hands on the car, spread em.


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## Dave

grams777 said:


> Yeah, wait until you get rules like this:
> 
> http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-of-service
> 
> Pull over mr TNC driver. Let me see your log book.
> 
> http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/2014_HOS_Logbook_Examples_508.pdf
> 
> Ok, now let's see trade dress, commercial insurance, airport sticker, city permit/puc registration, vehicle registration, personal insurance...awwww, missed one. Hands on the car, spread em.


Yep the FMCSA rules are not to be taken lightly. I do some light duty trucking/shipping part time and the rules are constantly changing. The DOT can put you out of service for an out clearance light on your trailer and not let you move until you fix it. And don't get me started on the insurance cost. $12,000 a year to insure a cargo van, a one ton dually pickup, and a 40' flatbed trailer.


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## Sydney Uber

HDGator said:


> Truck drivers are required 8 hours rest, accept it or it will be regulated. It is coming..


Think of it this way, if EVERYONE stuck to safe working hours, then the work would also be better "rationed" out, to drivers who should be fresh and full of beans to give high levels of service, and remain alert whilst driving.

Not sure if its enforced with Taxi Drivers there, but I recall my very first cab shift where the base manager told me it would be a "better deal" if I rented the cab for a 24hr period. I had no experience and would find it hard to make a decent return on a 12hr shift he said, and the 2nd 12hr shift "only" cost 50% of the 1st. So what did I do? drove 22hrs straight for $105.00 clear (before income tax, 1986) and was ratshit for the next day and a half.


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## HisShadowX

LAuberX said:


> I think of the Uber "driver of the week" that gives 180+ rides... and the customer who told me their Uber driver had fallen asleep on PCH while driving them...
> 
> How tired some of our fellow drivers must be. Instead of calling it quits at 3 a.m., how many just keep going into the next day?


I worked as a dispatcher for a major cab company that owned all the major cab companies in Chicago and even taxi drivers have this problem.


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## grams777

Interestingly, the NYC lawsuit against Lyft mentioned this controlling the number of hours as evidence of something more than an independent contractor relationship: That Lyft itself provides transportation services, not just technology.

See pages 5-8 (specifically, elements 18-35) of the lawsuit complaint that list different elements from controlling the price and collecting all payments to directing the hiring and firing.

Although, I don't necessarily agree with all of the points, it makes one think: if we are really independent contractors, shouldn't we have more control over *our* business.

So far, about the only control we have is where to park the car and when to login and out. We can't even decide which rides to accept without getting punished except for the % amount allowed.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/233543316/NY-AG-suit-vs-Lyft


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## HisShadowX

grams777 said:


> Interestingly, the NYC lawsuit against Lyft mentioned this controlling the number of hours as evidence of something more than an independent contractor relationship: That Lyft itself provides transportation services, not just technology.
> 
> See pages 3-8 of the lawsuit that list 37 different elements from controlling the price and collecting all payments to directing the hiring and firing.
> 
> Although, I don't necessarily agree with all of the points, it makes one think.
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/233543316/NY-AG-suit-vs-Lyft


You are correct when an employer says when you can or cannot work that changes the relationship to an actual employee.

In that case you can file an SS8 with the IRS so any small-business, social security (employers), and unemployment tax would be paid back to you if the IRS determines you were misclassified


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## Troy Monroe

HDGator said:


> Truck drivers are required 8 hours rest, accept it or it will be regulated. It is coming..


Actually as an ex owner/op otr truck driver, they are required to be off duty/in sleeper a total of ten hours.

8 isn't bad at all. If they forced it on all of us then it will be worse because we'll be regulated by state and fed dot probably


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## Tim In Cleveland

I'm a "road warrior" who's too greedy to limit my hours also. I've done 12 hour shifts because I keep saying "one more, one more". I have to admit, customers can pick up on how sleepy you are. Are they that grateful that someone picked them up at 3:30 to 4:00 am? NO. They tend to give you a sucky rating after you've driven that long. If you can't be perky, it's time to quit for the night. Rules like this protect us. Yeah, there are times when it sucks, but overall it's in our best interest.


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## grams777

Tim In Cleveland said:


> I'm a "road warrior" who's too greedy to limit my hours also. I've done 12 hour shifts because I keep saying "one more, one more". I have to admit, customers can pick up on how sleepy you are. Are they that grateful that someone picked them up at 3:30 to 4:00 am? NO. They tend to give you a sucky rating after you've driven that long. If you can't be perky, it's time to quit for the night. Rules like this protect us. Yeah, there are times when it sucks, but overall it's in our best interest.


I'm pretty beat after 12 hours anyway. It's really then time to go home. True, it's hard to keep the 5 star dancing bear act going that long as well.


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## Tim In Cleveland

hehe, dancing bear...yes, my friendliness is an act after a long night. I might try landing roles on Broadway after gaining more experience, lol.


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## Troy Monroe

From my experience driving otr and doing loong sleepless periods running two and sometimes three logbooks I know my body's signs. I will say this guys. Driving in a city for long periods with no open road time is a lot more draining. The alertness level you have to maintain driving around a large city is much higher than tooling down an interstate going from one city to another. Take that daily time off. Get some rest. I do 12 sometimes 14 hrs at this and I berate myself each time I do because I can tell I'm not as alert. We should all make the rule for ourselves that 12 hrs is the limit. 
Which os worse. That 60 bucks you lose for not droving those two extra hours or the two to three weeks you lose when your car is in the body shop because you didn't react fast enough to about d the drunk idiot that pulls out in front of you or worse. Money is not woth anyone's life. If you feel drowsy... Park it.. During a lull.. Find a shady spot.. Take a catnap. Get out and stretch, walk around, at least once every three hours. Avoid no doz, and energy drinks. They may give a kick in the ass for a while, but when you crash off of them you crash hard. Drink fruit juices for energy instead. Eat salads when you expect to drive. Heavy meals make us want to sleep. Its natural. Listen to your circadian rythms. By nature we are at our least alert and most drowsy between 1 and 4 am. Plan accordingly. Offset it with sleep during other, slow, parts of the day. 

T.


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## Crownan

I read threads like this and I can only think of the phrase "Chasing the dragon!" You may not be chemical addicts. but you display addictive qualities. Set your hours in the Lyft website and stick to them. It doesn't matter if you are running hot or cold. You need your rest. People's lives, including your own, depend on you being well rested and able to perform your only duty, drive.


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## Crownan

Drive! LOL!

There was a time in my life when I would drive from San Diego, CA to Key West, FL without break! I was in military and of course I waited until last minute. I think I saw at least a dozen "Black Dogs" that trip.

Get your rest. Be fully functional when you drive! Probably the only advice I really have for drivers.


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## Troy Monroe

From my experience driving otr and doing loong sleepless periods running two and sometimes three logbooks I know my body's signs. I will say this guys. Driving in a city for long periods with no open road time is a lot more draining. The alertness level you have to maintain driving around a large city is much higher than tooling down an interstate going from one city to another. Take that daily time off. Get some rest. I do 12 sometimes 14 hrs at this and I berate myself each time I do because I can tell I'm not as alert. We should all make the rule for ourselves that 12 hrs is the limit.
Which is worse. That 60 bucks you lose for not driving those two extra hours or the two to three weeks you lose when your car is in the body shop because you didn't react fast enough to avoid the drunk idiot that pulls out in front of you or worse. Money is not worth anyone's life. If you feel drowsy... Park it.. During a lull.. Find a shady spot.. Take a catnap. Get out and stretch, walk around, at least once every three hours. Avoid no doz, and energy drinks. They may give a kick in the ass for a while, but when you crash off of them you crash hard. Drink fruit juices for energy instead. Eat salads when you expect to drive. Heavy meals make us want to sleep. Its natural. Listen to your circadian rythms. By nature we are at our least alert and most drowsy between 1 and 4 am. Plan accordingly. Offset it with sleep during other, slow, parts of the day.

T.


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## grams777

Look at the proposed Chicago rules for TNC's - 10 hours max per person per day. And each vehicle can only be used 10 hours per day (no matter how many drivers use it).

9-115-190 Restrictions on hours of operation. 
(a) All licensees must implement processes to ensure that no transportation vehicle 
driver operates a transportation network vehicle for more than 10 hours within a 24 hour period. 
(b) No transportation network vehicle driver shall operate a transportation network 
vehicle for one or more licensees for more than 10 hours within a 24 hour period. 
(c) No vehicle shall be used in the operation of a transportation network vehicle by 
one or more drivers for more than 10 hours within a 24 hour period.

https://chicago.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=3054871&GUID=9C57EE4B-C1CE-484C-AE63-F15D20049BB3

h/t -

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/29kr63


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## CIncinnatiDriver

grams777 said:


> Correct. Always make sure with Lyft you get out of driver mode and note the time. Wait at least 8 1/2 hours or so before starting again if you are pulling full shifts. Do not do something like go into driver mode between shifts even for 1 minute to check if it's busy! This will start your 8 hour rest all over.
> 
> The way it works is, it cumulatively adds your driver mode time. And until you take 8 consecutive hours off, it will forever keep counting and kick you off after 12 hours have been counted. You could even drive for 1 hour and sleep for 7, and still get kicked out after the 12th time you did this - even though you drove for 12 hours but had slept for 84 hours. This has some rather strange side effects, especially if you do something like work several busy hours, nap/rest for 6 hours, leave the phone on while your sleeping/resting, or whatever.


What about the corollary? 
To work all peak shifts on a Friday & Saturday, would the friday overnight sleeping with the app off count ?

i.e.
Wed and Thursday - work 12 hours cumulative
Friday day - app off. Accumulate 8.5 hour rest time.

Friday, 5 pm - the '12-hour clock' starts over. Good to go.

Friday, 5 pm - Fresh start. The 12 hour timer begins..
Friday - Work 5pm - midnight. 7 hours shift. Cumulative work hours: 7 hours.
Friday midnight- Sat 8:30 am - turn app off. Accumulate 8 hours down-time.
*Saturday - AM - has the 12-hour timer re-set / started over ? Or do Friday's hours still count toward my 12 hours?*
Sat. Work 8:30 am- 2:30 pm. Five hour shift. *Is this added to Friday night's load? *If so, I'm at 12 hours - will require an immediate 8 hour break, and can't work again until 10:30 pm...bummer. 
*
If Friday night's sleep count as 8 hours off, then Saturday, I can take a break in the afternoon and start work again at 5 pm for the dinner / night shift. Much better than waiting until 10:30 pm.
*
Thanks for help on this,
CD.


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