# Your true earnings!!!!! A must read for new drivers



## High Mountain driver (Jan 3, 2016)

OK, I just drove my first two days for uber.

I ran the numbers on it and here is the scoop:

First of what was my cashflow: (that was ok, money came in even after expenses)

car wash 6.00
parking 1.00
Total 7.00

gas 13.46
gas 8.20
gas 18.33
Total 39.99

cash spent: 35.99
Check from uber 325.83
Net cashflow 280.xx

OK so cool I made 280 in two days, in about 18 hours of actual "on" time in uber service. 


BUT:
car depreciation
439 miles at real depreciation of $0.464 /mile (as rated by AAA) = 203

True earnings for 18 hours of driving for uber $ 77

or $4.27 / hour

and uber does not want passengers to tip you.

What do you say when passengers ask, Do you like to drive for Uber? Does it pay well? You must be making good money doing this! 

Just smile, hand them this print out and say could you spare a buck?


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

High Mountain driver said:


> OK, I just drove my first two days for uber.
> 
> I ran the numbers on it and here is the scoop:
> 
> ...


Meals and drinks
Einsteins OJ 3.00
Peet's Coffee 3.20
seven eleven 3.54
king soopers dinner 4.14
Western food&caffeine 6.80
coffee 1.00
coffee 2.19
Starbucks 2.29
Total: 26.16

Equipment
Cell phone dashholder 21.52
cell phone charger 23.67
Total: 45.19

car wash 6.00
parking 1.00
Total 7.00

Why the hell is any of that Uber's problem..


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## High Mountain driver (Jan 3, 2016)

Gotcha, fixed it.

Still sucks


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

It sure does. Working during surges and bar hours may bring more dough but then again the ratings might suffer. No-win situation.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Bill Collector said:


> It sure does. Working during surges and bar hours may bring more dough but then again the ratings might suffer. No-win situation.


But ultimately, ratings don't matter anyway. Just stay above 4.7 and all is golden.


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## neweagle (May 13, 2015)

High Mountain driver said:


> car depreciation
> 439 miles at real depreciation of $0.464 /mile (as rated by AAA) = 203


I'm no cheerleader when it comes to Uber, and Uber X ain't worth beans for most folks when all of the true costs are taken into account. However, I think you're overstating the impact of depreciation in your math.

It's important to take depreciation into account, but the AAA estimate isn't based purely on mileage. AAA bases their depreciation estimates on the difference between the price of a vehicle when it was new vs. the trade-in value after five-years, and factors in mileage based on either 10k, 15k, or 20k per year (here's a *link to their driving cost estimate* brochure). So there are two components to depreciation: the miles driven (and associated impact on the condition of the vehicle), and the passage of time.

Driving your car only impacts the mileage portion of the depreciation estimate, because your car depreciates a little bit every day simply because it got a day older, regardless of how much it was driven. In other words, you could buy a new car, tow it home on a flatbed, park it in your garage for five years, and it will still be worth much less than what you paid for it, simply because it's five years old.

In order to get a better estimate of how much each mile you drive is contributing to depreciation:

1) Determine how much your car is worth (i.e. on Kelly Blue Book) based on your current mileage & condition, and subtract this from the purchase price. This gives you how much your car has depreciated since you purchased it, based on the miles you've put on it and the passage of time since the purchase
2) Determine how much your car would be worth if you hadn't put any miles on it (LOL if you bought it new, the KBB estimate won't let you use "0", so you'd have to enter 1 mile) since you purchased it. This gives you how much your car has depreciated since you purchased it, based solely the passage of time since the purchase, since there are no miles in the estimate.
3) Subtract #2 from #1. This gives you the portion of the total depreciation that is due to the miles that you have driven.
4) Divide #3 into the total miles you have put on the vehicle. This tells you how much each mile driven is contributing to the depreciation on your vehicle.

In my case, my car has a current KBB of ~$17,500, and it would be worth ~$20,000 if it still had no miles on it. This means that the ~40k miles that I've driven have contributed $2,500 to the total depreciation of the car since I bought it, which is ~$0.06 per mile. The passage of time is responsible for the rest of the depreciation.

Every case is different, of course, so I'd be curious to see where you land if you do this for you car. It'll be less than $0.464 per mile.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

neweagle said:


> I'm no cheerleader when it comes to Uber, and Uber X ain't worth beans for most folks when all of the true costs are taken into account. However, I think you're overstating the impact of depreciation in your math.
> 
> It's important to take depreciation into account, but the AAA estimate isn't based purely on mileage. AAA bases their depreciation estimates on the difference between the price of a vehicle when it was new vs. the trade-in value after five-years, and factors in mileage based on either 10k, 15k, or 20k per year (here's a *link to their driving cost estimate* brochure). So there are two components to depreciation: the miles driven (and associated impact on the condition of the vehicle), and the passage of time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for laying that out, I am so tired if the stupid math, many on this fourm come across like the car should have zero cost and uber is responsible for food, coffee, clothes, car washs. Insurance, all oil changes, acts of God,

Yes I pay $753 per month to Santander for my car,

i no longer pay uber, I pay Santander directly,

Yes some weeks its difficult for me, but I get by, my needs are small, i also make some money signing up new riders,

I live in the IE, many people here commute 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 miles to and from work 5 to 6 days a week, no complaints about the depreciation of their car, the way some of you complain about car depreciation when driving uber


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Is your car brand new fresh off the lot? If not, $.464 is probably way way off and that would include gas, probably estimated at a far higher price than it is today, which you added separately. My real world cost is $.17 a mile including gas and I drive an XL.

You will also have end of year tax deductions of $.54 per mile for those miles which may lower or eliminate their actual cost.

It's a business. If you're costs aren't viable, it's up to you to drive them down.

Also, in your first 2 days, you should be aware you aren't even close to knowing where you should be and when to make the most gross earnings from each mile.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Here's the real world calculations,

Can you pay your bills.
Can you make your car payment, if any,
Can you put money back to cover normal car repairs and maintenance,

If answer to all three is yes, then no further calculations are needed..


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Hunt to Eat said:


> "Just remember that there's a reason why cab companies purchase fully depreciated police cars and re-purpose them"


And I thought it was so they can make max profits from the $500 to $700 per week taxi lease for a car you will never own..


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Glad I could help! Uber on!


Need to get that image out your head, that every taxi company puts beatup nasty ass taxi cabs on the road..


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

High Mountain driver said:


> OK, I just drove my first two days for uber.
> 
> I ran the numbers on it and here is the scoop:
> 
> ...


Put 10 more drivers in your market for the same amount of work and then run the numbers.

That's what most larger metro area drivers are faced with.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I've realized that making money means different things to different people. To some, destroying your car a little at a time is not important. Realizing a few hundred dollars in a week is the difference between starving to death and living. The expenses don't enter into the equation when you are desperate.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

High Mountain driver said:


> OK, I just drove my first two days for uber.
> 
> I ran the numbers on it and here is the scoop:
> 
> ...


Wow.... A new member / driver who gets it. Welcome!


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

> Thanks for laying that out, I am so tired if the stupid math, many on this fourm come across like the car should have zero cost and uber is responsible for food, coffee, clothes, car washs. Insurance, all oil changes, *acts of God*,


I think Uber is (hopefully) responsible for most "acts of God" that can happen in cab or "time-share" . (They're surely up to date with those various insurance policies)

I guess though , with 1,000,000 liability while hired, after a severe wreck your fare, aka "pax" can recover on the beach , while it may not cover you, the driver at all... depending on state. (but don't worry , car wrecks almost never happen.... ignore news reports and those pesky lawyer ads)

The new guy may be a little over caffeinated on his 46 c/ mi figure. Unless he has a $40000 suv and its brand new. But the concept of drivers underestimating costs is there.

But for most Uberoids, about 1500-2000/yr at 15000 average miles/yr (blue book) for a later model car is about it 10-12 cents a mile. (30000 mi/yr = $3000+ for most Ubermiles) Doing any significant Uber miles will put your vehicle in the hi mile category (10c+/mi)

So for estimated expenses (all we can do) gas additional:

1700 /yr ---- 10c+/mi -- Depreciation-- 30000 uber miles/yr =3000-$3600 for UberX cars. **
1000++/yr -- 6c-25c? - Gen maintence upkeep , minor./major repairs, $300 dings dents, **
Your Dime --- $xx ----- Feeding yourself, caffenating yourself, whatever-ing yourself...

** Your mileage will vary -- Auto wrecks depreciate bad --CARFAX negative , Transmission etc.. =$$

..... perhaps *25c/mi* , on a good (or less eventful) year. +/-

It appears our new driver with his 46c/ mi depreciation may be driving at about 1.20/mi, 12c/min. rates

His 45c/mi number may be considerably over what most people incur of about 25c+ mi. **

So he is WRONG for most drivers WRONG I tell you ... he & others may have actually made a big $8.75/hr.

And as they become better they will make more! ..... and then be back down to $6.50 /hr or less in a month at 65c/mi

Seriously though, many drivers underestimate the running costs of their vehicles, or even ignore depreciation... Uber doesn't, and appreciates the very real $2000 - $3000+/year many of you are donating to the business model ... and their payday... (I don't care about depreciation because I am going to drive it until the tires fall off and...he he he-- _evil Uber management laugh_)

So, if ya drove 250 miles and made $200 after Uber's cut, subtract gas and $40-60 to get your profit. Divide by 10 hrs or whatever and...

The concept of many drivers becoming math crazy seems to show that. Many don't know (or care) though , and their first $1000 repair bill puts a lot of them among the 60% dropout rate. Maybe if you just HAVE to drive for 65c/mi, 10c/min your better off not knowing anyway.

CC <- Uber mgt are seated, fingers of both hands touching in evil contemplation during their evil laugh.


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> And I thought it was so they can make max profits from the $500 to $700 per week taxi lease for a car you will never own..


You really don't want to own a car worth $2000 at best.

In the few cities with medallions worth $$$ (1million in NY) you can't get a weekly cab, just a 12 hr/ $12o+ lease or 8hr/ $50+ lease. You pay gas at 10 mpg. That car (in NY) is going 24/7, generating $240-$300/day, 2000/wk, $100,000 yr.

Ya gotta get a return on that $1 million medallion, and since the 100,000 isn't all profit and investors want 7% or more..... and just the yearly renewal fee may well be 20,000-$30,000+

Needless to say , in most cities where a medallion is $3000, or even free jumping through some hoops, costs are much lower. Many places in the U.S. have no medallion and may just require a business license.

The drivers in NY were probably making $8.00/hr before Uber showed up. If uberites are around $1.80 mi 20c/min in NY, the company wishes to battle there.

The rate money getting cut from most of you is partly transferred to Uber drivers in the few locales where the company wishes to do battle. (what I get from their public statements and business plan)

Once again, that's one reason why you don't see a lot of natural born citizens in these cities driving cabs. People from places where 30c/hr, 80 hrs a week is the norm (if they can find work) with driver's licenses and green cards are good.

Ya gotta hand it to them, with 30 BILLION dollars in 30,000 NY taxi medallions alone, and Uber worldwide valued at 40 billion, 50? starting a few years earlier and the San Francisco Ubermenchen and their CEO may have possibly disappeared on a visit to NY. Usually in the East River, but never found... gawd the cash money laundering by itself..

CC


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

> High Mountain driver said: ↑
> OK, I just drove my first two days for uber.
> 
> I ran the numbers on it and here is the scoop:
> ...





Realityshark said:


> Wow.... A new member / driver who gets it. Welcome!


Yes, he may be new and a bit too pessimistic on Depreciation, but he's on the right track. (not quite a "scoop" or revelation) If he has yet to go below $1.00 mi. 15c/min a mediocre deal becomes worse.

CC


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## fotograzio (Dec 10, 2015)




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## Muki (Oct 15, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Is your car brand new fresh off the lot? If not, $.464 is probably way way off and that would include gas, probably estimated at a far higher price than it is today, which you added separately. My real world cost is $.17 a mile including gas and I drive an XL.


Mind giving us a detailed breakdown on how you drive for $0.17/mi?


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## fotograzio (Dec 10, 2015)

.17 a mile? Really? Love to know your insurance carrier, how much gas costs where you live, type of vehicle you are driving. If IRS give you .54 a mile, your driving a gold mine. We are using different methods of calculating for sure. Do you count the miles driving to the passenger and the miles driving while waiting for another trip?


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Bottom line for most US markets is that you'll earn $7 to $9 per hour after ALL expenses.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

fotograzio said:


> .17 a mile? Really? Love to know your insurance carrier, how much gas costs where you live, type of vehicle you are driving. If IRS give you .54 a mile, your driving a gold mine. We are using different methods of calculating for sure. Do you count the miles driving to the passenger and the miles driving while waiting for another trip?


17 cents a mile is reasonable. I just got through with a lengthy thread showing about 10 cents per mile.

When you use the AAA method of calculating your costs you don't get an accurate figure unless you purchased and maintain a vehicle only for Uber.

The whole basis for the "sharing" economy is utilizing assets you pay for anyway. If I were to never take another Uber ride I would still have to pay insurance and maintenance on my vehicle. Your cost per mile is what driving for Uber costs you above and beyond what you would already be paying.

A good example is people's claims that flipping burgers will make you more money but if you employ the "Uber math" that is used around here that argument falls apart.

Uber math for minimum wage job 
Say you are paid $8 an hour at McDonald's. You leave the house at 8 am and return at 5:50 (30 min commute each way, 2 paid 10 min breaks, 30 min lunch) that's 9hrs 50 minutes.

You commute distance is 30 miles (Avg speed is 30mph) so the total daily cost is $34.30 (at 57 cents a mile)

Wages for an 8 hour shift is $64 taxes are usually a bit 20 percent = $51.20
$51.20-$34.49 expenses = $16.71
$16.71 divided by hours (9.8) is $1.70 per hour.

$1.70 per hour and is not reality. Keep that in mind when people start throwing out their "Uber math" calculations.

Much more realistic is to add up the depreciation per mile, gas per mile, and the accelerated maintenance schedule above what you would normally pay. In Colorado the TNC insurance is about $200 more per 6 months above my regular insurance so I add that in as well.

The real number is usually between 10-30 cents per mile. Unfortunately this doesn't fit the world view of many disgruntled drivers and their claims of $0 income.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Davetripd said:


> 17 cents a mile is reasonable.
> 
> The real number is usually between 10-30 cents per mile. Unfortunately this doesn't fit the world view of many disgruntled drivers and their claims of $0 income.


Just to be clear there is no taxable income TNC driving, period.

At least at McDonalds there is actually a taxable wage.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Cue: You're a shill, an idiot, a moron followed by back pedaling and moving the target.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Davetripd said:


> Cue: You're a shill, an idiot, a moron followed by back pedaling and moving the target.


Uh, no, it's actually a hard math fact.

But I really do think you are totally entitled to drive for 17 cents a mile and to think it's mahvelous.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just to be clear there is no taxable income TNC driving, period.
> 
> At least at McDonalds there is actually a taxable wage.


I'm not sure I understand this statement. Do you mean you aren't taxed when you get paid? That's true, you should be paying taxes on your wages quarterly.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Davetripd said:


> I'm not sure I understand this statement. Do you mean you aren't taxed when you get paid? That's true, you should be paying taxes on your wages quarterly.


Uh, no driver UberX or Lyft std rate driver actually makes a taxable profit. What math world are you in?


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, no driver UberX or Lyft std rate driver actually makes a taxable profit. What math world are you in?


Your writing is incoherent. Are you trying to make that point that using the standard IRS deduction there is enough deductions to cover the amount you see paid? IE: your check is $100 but you drove 200 miles so your deduction is higher than your wages? I've never disputed that (or even mentioned it).


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Davetripd said:


> Your writing is incoherent. Are you trying to make that point that using the standard IRS deduction there is enough deductions to cover the amount you see paid? IE: your check is $100 but you drove 200 miles so your deduction is higher than your wages? I've never disputed that (or even mentioned it).


Just checking to see if you actually knew that it really is a ZERO taxable income yob.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just checking to see if you actually knew that it really is a ZERO taxable income yob.


I fail to see your point.


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

For me 2015 Uber was a zero taxable stint when using 0.575 figure. Maybe this year I will make Uber profit.... LOL.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Davetripd said:


> I fail to see your point.


Obviously.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

I see the deduction being so high as a benefit, it basically allows you to avoid paying any taxes on your income. 

The IRS is a slow, cumbersome bureaucracy, it's behind the curve when it comes to parts of the new economy. 

Same thing with airbnb, I'm looking into buying property solely to rent at a much higher rate than market per night .


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Bottom line for most US markets is that you'll earn $7 to $9 per hour after ALL expenses.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

I think there is a little more variance than that. There are so many factors. In a busy market with regular surges I think 15-25 is possible and then there is Detroit... 

$7-$9 is probably about right if you're driving full time+ in a decent market.


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## neweagle (May 13, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> 17 cents a mile is reasonable. I just got through with a lengthy thread showing about 10 cents per mile.
> 
> When you use the AAA method of calculating your costs you don't get an accurate figure unless you purchased and maintain a vehicle only for Uber.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. Hourly wage comparisons between Uber and other min wage jobs have always struck me as ironic because it seems like most of the hourly Uber wages talked about on this site are after every single cost is computed in the earning of those dollars, yet few people will compare that vs. the wage left over after every single cost that goes into earning the dollars of any other job is taken into account.

And thank you for echoing sentiments I've posted regarding the AAA figure as well. I was challenged to look up the numbers for myself and when I did, I was challenged for reporting what the numbers actually said, which is that their per mile costs include the depreciation due to passage of time over 5 years, and fixed expenses like car note, tag, title. Both of which you will incur whether you drive your car for Uber or not.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

neweagle said:


> Excellent post. Hourly wage comparisons between Uber and other min wage jobs have always struck me as ironic because it seems like most of the hourly Uber wages talked about on this site are after every single cost is computed in the earning of those dollars, yet few people will compare that vs. the wage left over after every single cost that goes into earning the dollars of any other job is taken into account.
> 
> And thank you for echoing sentiments I've posted regarding the AAA figure as well. I was challenged to look up the numbers for myself and when I did, I was challenged for reporting what the numbers actually said, which is that their per mile costs include the depreciation due to passage of time over 5 years, and fixed expenses like car note, tag, title. Both of which you will incur whether you drive your car for Uber or not.


On the other hand, if drivers are satisfied with $7 to $9 per hour (net,) why whiz on their Wheaties? We're all here by choice, after all.


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## Skurt (Jan 16, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Is your car brand new fresh off the lot? If not, $.464 is probably way way off and that would include gas, probably estimated at a far higher price than it is today, which you added separately. My real world cost is $.17 a mile including gas and I drive an XL.
> 
> You will also have end of year tax deductions of $.54 per mile for those miles which may lower or eliminate their actual cost.
> 
> ...


Oh SNAP, no he diddddddnt!


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

Looky Heeaa .... Serious savings for riders in Cincinnati!!!!!! Fares down 25%!!!!!!

Cincinnati Drivers just got knocked from $1.20 to 80c /mi , base and time hit also

Palm springs got hit 45% last week $1.40/mi to 80c...

But *don't worry*, this is for a limited time.... maybe..... (see ad below)

Say g'nite Gracy........ g'nite Gracy.


I got an email for Great 25% savings for uber riders in Cinti!!!

Did you drivers in Cinti get hit like Palm Springs (1.45/mi to 80c/mi)?

Are you at 85c now instead of $1.20?

Theoretically these great savings are for a limited time... but....

CC


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

Looky Heeaa .... Serious savings for riders in Cincinnati!!!!!! Fares down 25%!!!!!!

Cincinnati Drivers just got knocked from $1.20 to 80c /mi , base and time hit also

Palm springs got hit 45% last week $1.40/mi to 80c... base from $2.00 to 1.00

But *don't worry*, this is for a limited time.... maybe..... (see ad below)

Say g'nite Gracy........ g'nite Gracy.


I got an email for Great 25% savings for uber riders in Cinti!!!

Did you drivers in Cinti get hit like Palm Springs (1.45/mi to 80c/mi)?

Are you at 85c now instead of $1.20?

Theoretically these great savings are for a limited time... but....

CC


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## UbernaryJames (Aug 6, 2015)

I truly am trying to figure out the economics of driving for Uber under the new rate structures. The IRS mileage rate for 2016 is down to .54 per mile. I'm a little confused on whether or not safe rider fees are deductible just as toll fees are. I understand that demand during the winter historically decreases. I have, until recently had a full-time job, and will most likely have another one in the near future. (Final interview this coming week). Thus, unlike folks who try to Uber full-time, I don't have to worry about healthcare and benefits in the long haul. I am sympathetic to "partners" who are trying to earn a solid living driving for Uber more than 20 hours a week, if not full/overtime. I'm driving a 2014 Mazda 6 coupe that I make payments on. Quite frankly, I don't know how it is possible given decreased fares, even with guaranteed hourly fares to make this venture profitable. I certainly was making more money driving during the summer with lower safe driver fees and higher distance/minutes rates. (Uber Cincinnati has recently put an guaranteed hourly rate into place when a "partner" completes 1 or 2 rides per hour depending upon the time/day of the week. It does seem the only way to make this entrepreneurial thing work is to long on when surge rates are 1.5 or higher and strive to make more than a $1.00 per ride while calculating in the mileage and other IRS deductions. What rules of thumb are other partners using and what leverage other than not signing on to the app. do drivers have to try to earn more money in reasonable yet effective ways? I'm sorry I'm not a mathematician. I use TripLog to record my miles, business expenses, etc. Ultimately, what's the bottom line. 

thanks.


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

UbernaryJames said:


> I truly am trying to figure out the economics of driving for Uber under the new rate structures. The IRS mileage rate for 2016 is down to .54 per mile. I'm a little confused on whether or not safe rider fees are deductible just as toll fees are. I understand that demand during the winter historically decreases. I have, until recently had a full-time job, and will most likely have another one in the near future. (Final interview this coming week). Thus, unlike folks who try to Uber full-time, I don't have to worry about healthcare and benefits in the long haul. I am sympathetic to "partners" who are trying to earn a solid living driving for Uber more than 20 hours a week, if not full/overtime. I'm driving a 2014 Mazda 6 coupe that I make payments on. Quite frankly, I don't know how it is possible given decreased fares, even with guaranteed hourly fares to make this venture profitable. I certainly was making more money driving during the summer with lower safe driver fees and higher distance/minutes rates. (Uber Cincinnati has recently put an guaranteed hourly rate into place when a "partner" completes 1 or 2 rides per hour depending upon the time/day of the week. It does seem the only way to make this entrepreneurial thing work is to long on when surge rates are 1.5 or higher and strive to make more than a $1.00 per ride while calculating in the mileage and other IRS deductions. What rules of thumb are other partners using and what leverage other than not signing on to the app. do drivers have to try to earn more money in reasonable yet effective ways? I'm sorry I'm not a mathematician. I use TripLog to record my miles, business expenses, etc. Ultimately, what's the bottom line.
> 
> thanks.


Welcome and lots of questions.... You've got a lot to experience. The bottom line is Uber is not all that is cracked to be. In the end most end up making minimum wage while dealing with irrational pax. That's my experience but YMMV.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> 17 cents a mile is reasonable. I just got through with a lengthy thread showing about 10 cents per mile.
> 
> When you use the AAA method of calculating your costs you don't get an accurate figure unless you purchased and maintain a vehicle only for Uber.
> 
> ...


Stupid example, no one would commute an hour to a job at McDonalds, but if they did, yes ... they would pretty much be doing it for free! Most people just walk to their McDonalds job around the corner. Yes it really does cost $.57/mile to drive a decent car. No, nobody is making any profit at these rates. Wake up!


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## Dts08 (Feb 25, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> Thanks for laying that out, I am so tired if the stupid math, many on this fourm come across like the car should have zero cost and uber is responsible for food, coffee, clothes, car washs. Insurance, all oil changes, acts of God,
> 
> Yes I pay $753 per month to Santander for my car,
> 
> ...


Wow 753 for a car note...well it looks like they put a chain on you...ouch..


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UbernaryJames said:


> I truly am trying to figure out the economics of driving for Uber under the new rate structures. The IRS mileage rate for 2016 is down to .54 per mile. I'm a little confused on whether or not safe rider fees are deductible just as toll fees are. I understand that demand during the winter historically decreases. I have, until recently had a full-time job, and will most likely have another one in the near future. (Final interview this coming week). Thus, unlike folks who try to Uber full-time, I don't have to worry about healthcare and benefits in the long haul. I am sympathetic to "partners" who are trying to earn a solid living driving for Uber more than 20 hours a week, if not full/overtime. I'm driving a 2014 Mazda 6 coupe that I make payments on. Quite frankly, I don't know how it is possible given decreased fares, even with guaranteed hourly fares to make this venture profitable. I certainly was making more money driving during the summer with lower safe driver fees and higher distance/minutes rates. (Uber Cincinnati has recently put an guaranteed hourly rate into place when a "partner" completes 1 or 2 rides per hour depending upon the time/day of the week. It does seem the only way to make this entrepreneurial thing work is to long on when surge rates are 1.5 or higher and strive to make more than a $1.00 per ride while calculating in the mileage and other IRS deductions. What rules of thumb are other partners using and what leverage other than not signing on to the app. do drivers have to try to earn more money in reasonable yet effective ways? I'm sorry I'm not a mathematician. I use TripLog to record my miles, business expenses, etc. Ultimately, what's the bottom line.
> 
> thanks.


The IRS deduction and SRF will have almost no impact on your earnings. SRF Can affect the amount paid for the "minimum" fare but the difference is typically small. For tax purposes the standard deduction will almost guarantee no tax liability (that's a good thing) and may even offset earnings from your "real" job. The only potential downside is a reduction in FICA which can effect your social security when you retire.

Reduced rates, market saturation, and driving expenses will have a major impact on your earnings however and the trend with Uber is negative across the board.

Each market is different but to paint a picture with broad strokes if you are in an area that's around $1 a mile, surges somewhat dependably during the usual times, and is reasonably busy, $12-15/hr after expenses is a reasonable goal (as long as you're driving a depreciated car that gets good gas mileage).


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Bottom line for most US markets is that you'll earn $7 to $9 per hour after ALL expenses.


Wrong, real earnings are NEGATIVE in any market below $1.3/mile.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Stupid example, no one would commute an hour to a job at McDonalds, but if they did, yes ... they would pretty much be doing it for free! Most people just walk to their McDonalds job around the corner. Yes it really does cost $.57/mile to drive a decent car. No, nobody is making any profit at these rates. Wake up!


Why back your statements up with any sort of logic when you can just make definitive statements like this.

Right, all fast food workers "walk to their job around the corner". Lol, does your hatred for Uber really blind you so much that you really think these things?


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Wrong, real earnings are NEGATIVE in any market below $1.3/mile.


I've shown in many posts that this is simply not true. Just because you use capslock doesn't change that fact.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UbernaryJames said:


> I truly am trying to figure out the economics of driving for Uber under the new rate structures. The IRS mileage rate for 2016 is down to .54 per mile. I'm a little confused on whether or not safe rider fees are deductible just as toll fees are. I understand that demand during the winter historically decreases. I have, until recently had a full-time job, and will most likely have another one in the near future. (Final interview this coming week). Thus, unlike folks who try to Uber full-time, I don't have to worry about healthcare and benefits in the long haul. I am sympathetic to "partners" who are trying to earn a solid living driving for Uber more than 20 hours a week, if not full/overtime. I'm driving a 2014 Mazda 6 coupe that I make payments on. Quite frankly, I don't know how it is possible given decreased fares, even with guaranteed hourly fares to make this venture profitable. I certainly was making more money driving during the summer with lower safe driver fees and higher distance/minutes rates. (Uber Cincinnati has recently put an guaranteed hourly rate into place when a "partner" completes 1 or 2 rides per hour depending upon the time/day of the week. It does seem the only way to make this entrepreneurial thing work is to long on when surge rates are 1.5 or higher and strive to make more than a $1.00 per ride while calculating in the mileage and other IRS deductions. What rules of thumb are other partners using and what leverage other than not signing on to the app. do drivers have to try to earn more money in reasonable yet effective ways? I'm sorry I'm not a mathematician. I use TripLog to record my miles, business expenses, etc. Ultimately, what's the bottom line.
> 
> thanks.


My cutoff point is a buck per overall mile inclusive of the unpaid miles. If I can't hit that number, Uber off. If I'm driving after 10 p.m. then my number to stay driving is $28 an hour before Uber's cut. Otherwise I go home. But I drive XL so there is a slightly better chance to hit those marks. Not much of a chance, but it's still there from time to time.

With the most recent fare reductions it is basically impossible to hit the numbers on X so I just can't do it, so? Yeah, pax can walk as far as I'm concerned.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Davetripd said:


> I've shown in many posts that this is simply not true. Just because you use capslock doesn't change that fact.


Some drivers figure they are making bank when they can work the spread between their 6-10 cents a mile in gas costs and the 30-40 cents per total mile they get paid for Uber/Lyft ing.

That game doesn't work for me nor does it interest me whatsoever. *It's a waste of time.*


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## fotograzio (Dec 10, 2015)

Two links to the protest rally at UBER San Diego headquarters. You can download these and use them for free as an addition to any commentary you like to share on social media pertaining to the far reduction taken off the Uber drivers earnings. I'll be posting more on FLICKR in the days ahead.

fotograzio - international digital photographer


__
https://flic.kr/p/24337282151


__
https://flic.kr/p/24414210606


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

fotograzio said:


> __
> https://flic.kr/p/24414210606


Love that pic!!! If Uber drivers want to protest mega corp they should look like terrorists now so the attorney's can't see their faces, huh?

Freakin corporate criminals.


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## fotograzio (Dec 10, 2015)

My reply to UBER's recent survey on how well they handled my inquiry concerning my support request addressing the rate cuts . . .

Sadly, as a retired US Navy war veteran, I cannot make a livable wage driving for UBER after the recent 30% fare reduction taken off my earnings. I did the math, and for me, it's well below minimum wage earnings. 

When I signed up, I was all excited and thrilled to be part of the ride sharing community and aligned my efforts through UBER. I even gave much praise and recommendations to other veterans who were looking for another source of income. Now, my opinions and favorability have soured. 

The big problem is the lack of a living wage and the distribution of income and wealth in this country. I had a false hope that Tech Companies would use technology to help workers in this new century rather than follow the age old model of putting the screws to the workers to maintain or advance profits for the few at the top.

No one wants to see UBER succeed more than the drivers. Never once did I ever hear my passengers state that the fares they paid were overpriced. Why UBER corporate would lower rates on drivers without ever reaching out to them first to discuss ways to keep the momentum moving is beyond words. 

I'm sad for the drivers, and also sad for the people at the top who made such a careless, hurtful and greedy decision. Americans purposely making decisions that financially hurt other Americans was once unAmerican. UBER has chosen to stick with the Walmart model of worker exploitation.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Is your car brand new fresh off the lot? If not, $.464 is probably way way off and that would include gas, probably estimated at a far higher price than it is today, which you added separately. My real world cost is $.17 a mile including gas and I drive an XL.
> 
> You will also have end of year tax deductions of $.54 per mile for those miles which may lower or eliminate their actual cost.
> 
> ...


Hi RamzFanz,

Can you please state the year, make and model of your vehicle? Thank you.

I've been going by AAA depreciation values, so I'm trying to see how an XL could cost so little to maintain. http://exchange.aaa.com/automobiles-travel/automobiles/driving-costs/#.VpvjdiorIuU


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## EdwardSanchez (Jan 19, 2016)

I also want to know the year, make and model of your vehicle, so I can get an idea over maintenance.


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## JJ/Uber/Miami (Jun 24, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> Thanks for laying that out, I am so tired if the stupid math, many on this fourm come across like the car should have zero cost and uber is responsible for food, coffee, clothes, car washs. Insurance, all oil changes, acts of God,
> 
> Yes I pay $753 per month to Santander for my car,
> 
> ...


I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this.....

You pay $753 a month to LEASE a car to Uber???

Say it ain't so.......


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

JJ/Uber/Miami said:


> I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this.....
> 
> You pay $753 a month to LEASE a car to Uber???
> 
> Say it ain't so.......


People like that are what made Uber realize they could lower rates so much. They saw it and said "our drivers are that stupid?" No offense to you painfreepc, I'm sure you made other good decisions in your life, but this wasn't one of them.


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## Lone-Wolf (Jan 13, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> Thanks for laying that out, I am so tired if the stupid math, many on this fourm come across like the car should have zero cost and uber is responsible for food, coffee, clothes, car washs. Insurance, all oil changes, acts of God,
> 
> Yes I pay $753 per month to Santander for my car,
> 
> ...


You have a $753/month car payment? Wow that's a lot. What kind of car do you have?


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## Poverty level pay (Jan 20, 2016)

No wonder sooooooo many are quiting uber and or boycotting them in many states.....this pay is not just a bit low.....people....your looooooosing money.....look what your doing to your vehicle....blink your eyes and before you know it...any little bit of profit you think you have made....you lost on vehical depreciation and repairs....realize this......one set of new tires wipes out weeks of your net profit....yes...weeeeeks.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Muki said:


> Mind giving us a detailed breakdown on how you drive for $0.17/mi?


Total value of my car $5,000 broken over 100,000 miles remaining. $.o5 a mile in gas. $.o7 a mile for all other costs.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Poverty level pay said:


> No wonder sooooooo many are quiting uber and or boycotting them in many states.....this pay is not just a bit low.....people....your looooooosing money.....look what your doing to your vehicle....blink your eyes and before you know it...any little bit of profit you think you have made....you lost on vehical depreciation and repairs....realize this......one set of new tires wipes out weeks of your net profit....yes...weeeeeks.


Welcome dramaaaaaaaaaaatic taxi driver! Thanks fooooooooooor the lesson. Fortunately, I only need new tires every few years and consider them in my calculations. Did yoooooooooooou really think we didn't?


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

driverco said:


> Point black most Uber rates are 25 year old 1990 cab rates & Detroit's is from 1955 if you think you making $ in x think again, 1 accident, 1 ticket, 1 repair 6 months profit go poof


If you're earnings are that low it takes you 6 months to earn a couple hundred bucks then yeah, I would quit driving too. There are a number of us that do make a decent profit though


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Poverty level pay said:


> No wonder sooooooo many are quiting uber and or boycotting them in many states.....this pay is not just a bit low.....people....your looooooosing money.....look what your doing to your vehicle....blink your eyes and before you know it...any little bit of profit you think you have made....you lost on vehical depreciation and repairs....realize this......one set of new tires wipes out weeks of your net profit....yes...weeeeeks.


Just like the previous posters you're flat out wrong for many drivers. Adding 50 periods to your post and being as annoying as possible doesn't change that.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Muki said:


> Mind giving us a detailed breakdown on how you drive for $0.17/mi?


He doesn't drive for .17. Just ignore him. He is well known for his rambling nonsense on here. He drives a minivan that operates on pixie dust.


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## IckyDoody (Sep 18, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> Here's the real world calculations,
> 
> Can you pay your bills.
> Can you make your car payment, if any,
> ...


This is plain wrong. Your car has value. Driving your car decreases that value. At some point, your car will have zero value. If you don't account for this decrease in value in your finances, then at some point you will bebin a position where you are unable to replace your car.

This is vehicle replacement cost. This is an everyday driving expense. This cost is more than gas cost for most people.


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## IckyDoody (Sep 18, 2015)

fotograzio said:


> My reply to UBER's recent survey on how well they handled my inquiry concerning my support request addressing the rate cuts . . .
> 
> Sadly, as a retired US Navy war veteran, I cannot make a livable wage driving for UBER after the recent 30% fare reduction taken off my earnings. I did the math, and for me, it's well below minimum wage earnings.
> 
> ...


You sir are my type of person.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

fotograzio said:


> My reply to UBER's recent survey on how well they handled my inquiry concerning my support request addressing the rate cuts . . .
> 
> Sadly, as a retired US Navy war veteran, I cannot make a livable wage driving for UBER after the recent 30% fare reduction taken off my earnings. I did the math, and for me, it's well below minimum wage earnings.
> 
> ...


That is a great reply to Uber. Quite eloquent in my opinion.

I really need to figure out how to take the survey via my computer rather than my phone....


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

IckyDoody said:


> This is plain wrong. Your car has value. Driving your car decreases that value. At some point, your car will have zero value. If you don't account for this decrease in value in your finances, then at some point you will bebin a position where you are unable to replace your car.
> 
> This is vehicle replacement cost. This is an everyday driving expense. This cost is more than gas cost for most people.


The decrease in value of my car plus gas, replace parts and repairs is the cost of doing business,

People that commute 50, 100, 200 miles to work also have this problem, are they worried about it,

No, because that's the cost of having a job.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> The decrease in value of my car plus gas, replace parts and repairs is the cost of doing business,
> 
> People that commute 50, 100, 200 miles to work also have this problem, are they worried about it,
> 
> No, because that's the cost of having a job.


Nobody in their right mind would put 100+ miles on their car per day for a $15-20/hr job. That's how much I'm making before expenses.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

60000_TaxiFares said:


> Looky Heeaa .... Serious savings for riders in Cincinnati!!!!!! Fares down 25%!!!!!!
> 
> Cincinnati Drivers just got knocked from $1.20 to 80c /mi , base and time hit also
> 
> ...


POSTS # 39-40/60000_TaxiFares: You DO
REALIZE that you've
Issued Duplicate Messages here ?
Interesting strategy....

Mentoring Bison: What a Concept !


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

UbernaryJames said:


> I truly am trying to figure out the economics of driving for Uber under the new rate structures. The IRS mileage rate for 2016 is down to .54 per mile. I'm a little confused on whether or not safe rider fees are deductible just as toll fees are. I understand that demand during the winter historically decreases. I have, until recently had a full-time job, and will most likely have another one in the near future. (Final interview this coming week). Thus, unlike folks who try to Uber full-time, I don't have to worry about healthcare and benefits in the long haul. I am sympathetic to "partners" who are trying to earn a solid living driving for Uber more than 20 hours a week, if not full/overtime. I'm driving a 2014 Mazda 6 coupe that I make payments on. Quite frankly, I don't know how it is possible given decreased fares, even with guaranteed hourly fares to make this venture profitable. I certainly was making more money driving during the summer with lower safe driver fees and higher distance/minutes rates. (Uber Cincinnati has recently put an guaranteed hourly rate into place when a "partner" completes 1 or 2 rides per hour depending upon the time/day of the week. It does seem the only way to make this entrepreneurial thing work is to long on when surge rates are 1.5 or higher and strive to make more than a $1.00 per ride while calculating in the mileage and other IRS deductions. What rules of thumb are other partners using and what leverage other than not signing on to the app. do drivers have to try to earn more money in reasonable yet effective ways? I'm sorry I'm not a mathematician. I use TripLog to record my miles, business expenses, etc. Ultimately, what's the bottom line.
> 
> thanks.


POST # 41/UbernaryJames: "Ahoy!" &
Welcome to UP.Net Forums
from Mostly Dark...overnight...Marco
Island, on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

First let me direct you to the Helpful
Blog Entry by Fellow Notable and OH.
Native UberHammer "How to Calculate
Costs as a #[F]Uber Driver".

Next, I know of TWO UPNF Members
that are CPA's. "Well-Known" Nutmeg
Stater, UberTaxPro is a Personal
Friend of mine, with over a Year on
Record here.

StarzykCPA is in Virginia and has been
a Member since last August.

Lastly, completely unbeknownst to Me,
"Well-Known" UberPissed presents
himself as "Tax Attorney" and hails
from Chicago, also an August Joiner.

This is Testament to the Very Rapid
Growth of UPNF with nowadays ALMOST
43,000 Sequentially Numbered Member-
ship Applicants. As "Welcome-Wagoneer"
it is UNNERVING that a 5 Month Old
UserName is "new-2-me". Sigh.

Mentoring Bison: Catch as catch-can.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

sicky said:


> Nobody in their right mind would put 100+ miles on their car per day for a $15-20/hr job. That's how much I'm making before expenses.


100+ miles from the IE to the OC and back, Yes they do, I know a few, @ $20 an hr x 40 that's $800.00 per wk.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

What I love the best about this thread is what I love about the internet in general - strangers yelling at each other.

But for real - I've said - get a W-2 job. Use the losses from UBER to offset your W-2 income. The only way you can make money on this. 

For example, if you commute to work, go on the clock before and after work. This is why sidecar was great - you could set a radius of where you would drop off - that is what a rides share should be - instead uber calls itself this, and is really just a cab company with no regulation, and shoulders all risk on drivers that are living in poverty. 

There is a reason drivers only stick around for <5 months.


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

UberPissed said:


> But for real - I've said - get a W-2 job. Use the losses from UBER to offset your W-2 income. The only way you can make money on this.


Best advice as far as I'm concerned. Saved me some $$ for 2015 tax.


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## sicky (Dec 18, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> 100+ miles from the IE to the OC and back, Yes they do, I know a few, @ $20 an hr x 40 that's $800.00 per wk.


Maybe it's because of overpriced housing in CA. I still think that's crazy. You may as well take a $15 an hr job near your house and you will save a lot of time and make at least as much money.

The only situation where I can find this reasonable is someone who is entry level and trying to gain experience in a field that will make them much more money in the future.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

sicky said:


> Maybe it's because of overpriced housing in CA. I still think that's crazy. You may as well take a $15 an hr job near your house and you will save a lot of time and make at least as much money.
> 
> The only situation where I can find this reasonable is someone who is entry level and trying to gain experience in a field that will make them much more money in the future.


I don't think you even begin to comprehend the big difference in rent from Los Angeles compared to San Bernardino, you can easily find a very spacious two bedroom apartment for $800 to $1,000, if you willing to add another 30 miles to your commute. Go to Victorville or Apple Valley area, you can find something nice for as low as $600 to $750 per month.


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## YoungMD243 (Jan 25, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> Here's the real world calculations,
> 
> Can you pay your bills.
> Can you make your car payment, if any,
> ...


This!


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## Rich2nyce (Jan 25, 2016)

your car depreciate whether you drive it or not. In my case, I do my own maintenance and could care less about value lost. The value will never increase, even with the car parked which is pointless. vehicles are made to be driven. my motto is why not make money with something thats losing money anyway. NO your car can never be worth 0 whoever said that. My neighbor just traded in his 96 honda accord that had 4 accidents, transmission failing and over 200k miles for 600. My goal is 400/wk after fees. so far its working for me.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm not sure why you guys are going by what the IRS is telling you instead of actually tallying up your real costs. My car payment on my $7000 used but in great condition Honda is about $200. My insurance is about $100. I can do my own brakes, my own oil changes and transmission fluid changes and I can do my own work for anything fairly minor that comes up so yeah I have a bunch of tools. My car gets about 30mpg so I'm filling up about 3 times a week for about $60 or so after driving about 150 miles a day or so about 5 days a week, some days more, some less. Yes my car is going to depreciate from 100k miles to about 300k or so after about 5 years of driving at 40k a year but it'll still be worth about 4k at the least. That's only a 3k loss, but I will be able to write off usage which will more than make up for it with my income.

The problem is that people driving brand new cars are looking at a substantial depreciation on their cars which will be a huge loss over a few years of driving. The trick is not to use a new car for this but instead use a good quality used car and try to do all your own servicing. The basic oil changes and transmission fluid changes(which is absolutely critical to change automatic transmission fluid after each 20k to help keep the ****** cooler and reduce wear, as fluid gets old and stops working well the ****** overheats, expands and excessive wear occurs) spark plug replacements things and wiper changes are really easy.

When you use fully synthetic oil you only really need to change your fluid and extended oil filter every 10-12.5k.


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## UbernaryJames (Aug 6, 2015)

fotograzio said:


> My reply to UBER's recent survey on how well they handled my inquiry concerning my support request addressing the rate cuts . . .
> 
> Sadly, as a retired US Navy war veteran, I cannot make a livable wage driving for UBER after the recent 30% fare reduction taken off my earnings. I did the math, and for me, it's well below minimum wage earnings.
> 
> ...


I believe your reply to Uber and your post here eloquently expresses my concerns and regret about Uber. Uber advertises itself as a tech company who provides riders and drivers an affordable, safe, and pleasurable application-based ride service. They also imply that drivers will earn more than a living wage accomplishing this work, lots more at least initially. Uber uses the term "partner" rather than driver to identify its "contract" workforce. Sadly, greed, power, or some other malicious value now motivates Uber to adversely exploit the people who make the business possible in the first place. To your point, Uber is not alone in terms of corporate exploitation and greed truly gutting a fair distribution of wealth and income in the United States.

I would think that younger entrepreneurial business creators would have a better sense of "shared" values and business partnerships. In Uber's case, that simply isn't true. What seemingly is true, as it often is in capitalism, is that stakeholder and shareholder profit is more important than anything else, including workers' compensation and customer focus/satisfaction. I don't know how long Uber will continue to be a profitable and motivated company. It may indeed be for a long time as long as customers feel their needs are being met and "partners" continue to offer their employment to the business and its customers. I, for one, have scaled way back on my driving in the past few weeks.


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## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Uber Execs should get fotograzzio's missive everyday much like the moronic texts that we get ("The Super Bowl is in 2 weeks, get ready......") I wish we could strip away any identifier so that it is generic in terms of blowback prevention and then get some of our tech savvy brothers and sisters to spam this thing into key inboxes so that "the smartest guys in the room" have to see it every morning. Who knows....its message might just sink in and those geniuses might keep themselves from running this thing aground (which is where this Co. is heading at flank speed.)


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## Cheryl lynn (Mar 24, 2017)

painfreepc said:


> Thanks for laying that out, I am so tired if the stupid math, many on this fourm come across like the car should have zero cost and uber is responsible for food, coffee, clothes, car washs. Insurance, all oil changes, acts of God,
> 
> Yes I pay $753 per month to Santander for my car,
> 
> ...


Hi....how do you make extra money with driver referrals. I understand the concept and the way it works, but so fat out of about 60 rides, I have NEVER had a passenger sincerely inquire about becoming a driver. So how do you get your referral code out there for people to use??
Thanks...Cheryl



UbernaryJames said:


> I believe your reply to Uber and your post here eloquently expresses my concerns and regret about Uber. Uber advertises itself as a tech company who provides riders and drivers an affordable, safe, and pleasurable application-based ride service. They also imply that drivers will earn more than a living wage accomplishing this work, lots more at least initially. Uber uses the term "partner" rather than driver to identify its "contract" workforce. Sadly, greed, power, or some other malicious value now motivates Uber to adversely exploit the people who make the business possible in the first place. To your point, Uber is not alone in terms of corporate exploitation and greed truly gutting a fair distribution of wealth and income in the United States.
> 
> I would think that younger entrepreneurial business creators would have a better sense of "shared" values and business partnerships. In Uber's case, that simply isn't true. What seemingly is true, as it often is in capitalism, is that stakeholder and shareholder profit is more important than anything else, including workers' compensation and customer focus/satisfaction. I don't know how long Uber will continue to be a profitable and motivated company. It may indeed be for a long time as long as customers feel their needs are being met and "partners" continue to offer their employment to the business and its customers. I, for one, have scaled way back on my driving in the past few weeks.


I feel the same as you. Uber has deceiving tactics that get people to want to work for them . I too was very excited. It's like letting the air out of a baloon. I am so shocked at how people don't tip and how uber promotes this behavior. This is an alternative taxi SERVICE. ..in the service industry, you should tip!! At least thats how i was raised. These ridets are not stupid, they are smug!! Ube r should be ashamed and so should these riders. It would be no differ than not tipping a waitress or the pizza man!!!


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## htboston (Feb 22, 2016)

put up a tip sign for more incoming cash


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## Cheryl lynn (Mar 24, 2017)

htboston said:


> put up a tip sign for more incoming cash


I do have a tip sign....I do get a few tips since, but not many. Most say " I thought the tip was included " and then, I get the old as days saying... I don't have any cash on me.!! Honestly, how do you figure a tip is included in a $3-5 fare???? What part of that would be a tip??? A dime.....I mean cmon, the people can't even say it with a strait face. Trust me, all od these people can't be that stupid (misunderstand)...... they are smug little millanials



Cheryl lynn said:


> I do have a tip sign....I do get a few tips since, but not many. Most say " I thought the tip was included " and then, I get the old as days saying... I don't have any cash on me.!! Honestly, how do you figure a tip is included in a $3-5 fare???? What part of that would be a tip??? A dime.....I mean cmon, the people can't even say it with a strait face. Trust me, all od these people can't be that stupid (misunderstand)...... they are smug little millanials


Also.....the rest of riders act like they don't see it or can't read it. Dont mention it, get right out of car, without a single thought that they stiffed me. It's so hard to wrP my mind around this......when waitressing, once in a while u don't get a tip, but mostly you do. This is totally flipped the opposite way.


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## htboston (Feb 22, 2016)

Cheryl lynn said:


> I do have a tip sign....I do get a few tips since, but not many. Most say " I thought the tip was included " and then, I get the old as days saying... I don't have any cash on me.!! Honestly, how do you figure a tip is included in a $3-5 fare???? What part of that would be a tip??? A dime.....I mean cmon, the people can't even say it with a strait face. Trust me, all od these people can't be that stupid (misunderstand)...... they are smug little millanials


50% stupid 50% cheap. Even a dollar tip is decent, but they won't even do that


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## Cheryl lynn (Mar 24, 2017)

htboston said:


> 50% stupid 50% cheap. Even a dollar tip is decent, but they won't even do that


I think maybe 25 % stupid (or think uber is paying us a flat rate).....I agree 75% chep.... that's what I meant. (SMUG = CHEAP)?


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## Cheryl lynn (Mar 24, 2017)

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> Uber Execs should get fotograzzio's missive everyday much like the moronic texts that we get ("The Super Bowl is in 2 weeks, get ready......") I wish we could strip away any identifier so that it is generic in terms of blowback prevention and then get some of our tech savvy brothers and sisters to spam this thing into key inboxes so that "the smartest guys in the room" have to see it every morning. Who knows....its message might just sink in and those geniuses might keep themselves from running this thing aground (which is where this Co. is heading at flank speed.)


I totally agree with you...I have said this since I started driving for Uber. ..this company was am overnight success, and many companies that hit it rich fast, the owner gets BIG HEAD a drives it into ground with the almighty arrogance!!


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