# New Uber rollout is a game ending move.....



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

*Upfront fares for better choices*
1 hour ago / Jacksonville












Driving with Uber has always been about flexibility, and now we’re offering you even more choice while you’re on the road. Starting next week, we’re testing upfront fares1 on trip requests so you can see exactly how much you’ll earn—and your rider’s destination—before accepting a trip.

We hope that with this additional information, you won’t have to do as much guesswork when you’re deciding how to spend your time. Helping to create a positive earning experience on our platform is something we take seriously, so we’ll monitor trends carefully and listen closely to feedback.







*How upfront fares work*

See exactly how much you’ll earn—and where you’ll be going—before accepting a trip.2 If your rider leaves a tip, it will be added at the end of their ride and you’ll see it on your trip receipt.
Upfront fares include the base fare3 and surge. The upfront fare will replace time and distance rates.
If a rider adds stops or changes their destination, or if the trip length changes, your fare will be updated. Any changes will be reflected on your trip receipt.








*See other nearby trip requests*
You can browse nearby requests to find trips you want.

Tap *Available requests* on the map screen and select all the trips that interest you.
Other drivers can be matched with available requests too, so you won’t get every request you pick.
Completed requests will still count toward your promotions.
During the pilot there will only be UberX trips listed on the available request screen. We hope to add Uber XL, Uber Comfort, and Uber Black trips to the available request screen soon.








*Coming soon: see nearby earnings trends*
Make the best call for where and when to drive with the earnings trends map. You’ll soon be able to see how much other drivers have historically earned on nearby trips.
*Fares are getting adjusted*
You’ll always see how much you’ll earn before you accept the trip request. The base fare will now vary depending on factors like pickup time and destination of the request. Since the base fare varies on factors like pickup time, it replaces the long pickup fee.4
We also want to make shorter trips more worth your time, so you’ll now earn more than you used to on shorter trips and less than you used to on longer trips.
We do not expect these changes to affect median earnings in your city, but your earnings may increase or decrease depending on the type of trips you take. See the example below to better understand how this update affects short and long trips.
These changes do not apply to Uber Black trips.


*Short trip**Before*
Distance: 5 miles
Time: 15 minutes

Total earnings:
*$6.11*
*After*
Distance: 5 miles
Time: 15 minutes

Total earnings:
*$7.20*


*Long Trip**Before*
Distance: 20 miles
Time: 30 minutes

Total earnings:
*$15.74*
*After*
Distance: 20 miles
Time: 30 minutes

Total earnings:
*$14.18*
This pilot is running in a number of cities. We look forward to hearing about what’s working well and what we can improve.
1Upfront fare and destination applies to UberX, UberXL, Uber Comfort, Uber Black, Uber WAV, Uber Assist, Uber Español, Uber Diamond, Uber Pet, and UberX Car Seat. Hourly trips are not included in this change.
2If a rider adds stops or changes their destination, or if the trip length changes, your fare will be updated, and this change will be reflected on the trip receipt.
3Tips, tolls, and any wait-time or other surcharges are not included in the fare that’s shown up front. Tolls, fees, surcharges, and any tips paid to you by riders will be remitted to you along with the fare upon final payout.
4The base fare will now vary based on factors like the amount of time it took to pick up the rider. This will replace the long pickup fee.


Posted by Uber
Category: Driver products


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## Gary275 (Jan 26, 2018)

We are desperately short of drivers and after 7 years can't find our own a**to wipe so we are flinging chit at wall to see what sticks. Htf is reducing fares on long trips going to help. Plenty of missed flights from suburbs coming up


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

This is definitely a sign that their recruitment of new drivers isn't going worth a damn. So, they're now considering doing what they should have been doing from Day One. It's probably too little, too late if they are still offering lousy rates per mile.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

If the numbers are right we getting a raise in base pay lol.... I'm not holding my breath.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> If the numbers are right we getting a raise in base pay lol.... I'm not holding my breath.


Its only better if the rates increase. Upfront info. is nice but now I need to be paid fairly for a service at market rates i.e. Taxi rates


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Its only better if the rates increase. Upfront info. is nice but now I need to be paid fairly for a service at market rates i.e. Taxi rates


Base here is $3.20.... That says $6.11


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## Jeff1205 (May 15, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Base here is $3.20.... That says $6.11


It's just an example. Base will probably go from $3.20 to $3.50. Wouldn't put it past Uber.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Any ideas as to which cities the pilot is going to be tested?


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## MissAnne (Aug 9, 2017)

I’ll believe it if my weekend deposit is higher than it normally is. I don’t trust these guys as far as I could throw them.


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

Interesting. I wonder if there is any pending legislation in these areas threatening to regulate Uber. They only do something to benefit the drivers if they have to. In California we began to see the upfront info as Uber's business model was challenged by AB5 and then Prop 22. With the passing of Prop 22 Uber knew they had carte blanche to exploit us as ruthlessly as possible and they tied trip info to acceptance, a real dick move which has resulted in drivers not knowing anything about the upcoming ride most of the time. So much for "flexibility and choice."


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Lord Summerisle said:


> Interesting. I wonder if there is any pending legislation in these areas threatening to regulate Uber. They only do something to benefit the drivers if they have to.


I suspect Uber is doing this because they are having a difficult time getting drivers to log on these days. Better to have twenty drivers logged on in a market cherry-picking requests, than to have zero drivers doing the same. Uber can't make money if nobody is getting a ride.

It'll be interesting to see how many markets get this concept, and what impacts it might have on ridership in the "underprivileged" communities that currently make up the bulk of Uber's clientele. It will also be interesting to see if passengers start exploiting loopholes (i.e. changing their destination from longer distances to shorter distances) to make their ride requests more attractive.

I see a ton of problems with this, but no more than Uber already has. This is merely an act of re-arranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

This is fine. I do not want long trips anyhow. I prefer short ones. Now, if they show me the trips, I can pick the short or mediocre and leave the long trips for those guys who want them. I do not want them.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This is fine. I do not want long trips anyhow. I prefer short ones.


I guess this is where things could get interesting. Most Uber drivers (but not all) will probably reject these eight-blocks-to-the-convenience-store-and-back rides that only pay a few dollars with virtually no tip 99% of the time. So, you're going to have hundreds of riders getting passed over every day in a given market. Eventually, word will get out that in order to entice drivers to accept a request, you must enter the ride as a longer trip...then change the destination once you've gained entry into the Uber.

This is going to create bedlam on a grand scale. Not only because drivers wanting longer rides will snap on the rider who quickly edits their destination, but because drivers like you (who want shorter runs) may never find one available, since many pax will be entering fake longer rides into the app. This will render the trip information completely useless in a significant number of instances.

Sure, some or even most riders will enter accurate information on their trip. However, I suspect at least 35% of Uber's low-class clientele will lie and cheat their way to a pick-up. That's a big chunk of passengers who are going to test the patience of a work force that has shown very little patience in recent months.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

rkozy said:


> I guess this is where things could get interesting. Most Uber drivers (but not all) will probably reject these eight-blocks-to-the-convenience-store-and-back rides that only pay a few dollars with virtually no tip 99% of the time. So, you're going to have hundreds of riders getting passed over every day in a given market. Eventually, word will get out that in order to entice drivers to accept a request, you must enter the ride as a longer trip...then change the destination once you've gained entry into the Uber.
> 
> This is going to create bedlam on a grand scale. Not only because drivers wanting longer rides will snap on the rider who quickly edits their destination, but because drivers like you (who want shorter runs) may never find one available, since many pax will be entering fake longer rides into the app. This will render the trip information completely useless in a significant number of instances.
> 
> Sure, some or even most riders will enter accurate information on their trip. However, I suspect at least 35% of Uber's low-class clientele will lie and cheat their way to a pick-up. That's a big chunk of passengers who are going to test the patience of a work force that has shown very little patience in recent months.


Quite possible. Consider pax today have evolved to adding stops after the ride is accepted, and often they wait until the driver has arrived.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

It's going to be interesting. We got more airport drivers then anything now it seems. Even if it never seems to hit 20 in que.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Diamondraider said:


> Quite possible. Consider pax today have evolved to adding stops after the ride is accepted, and often they wait until the driver has arrived.


I really don't think Uber's new approach is going to solve many problems. They have too many bad-faith passengers looking for a cheap ride with ridiculous demands, and too many irritated drivers engaged in a futile effort to chase down a fast buck. Something is going to give no matter how much they dress it up. Uber has created an adversarial framework between their customer and the driver.

Until they change that framework, problems will just migrate from one side of the equation to the other.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

You raise some points that are worthy of consideration and not without validity. 




rkozy said:


> Most Uber drivers (but not all) will probably reject these eight-blocks-to-the-convenience-store-and-back rides that only pay a few dollars with virtually no tip 99% of the time.


Even I will reject the brew run, Seven-Eleven run, pizza joint run. I do not do round trip locals as you do not get paid for the flip-flop. If, however, they want only one way, I will accept it.




rkozy said:


> So, you're going to have hundreds of riders getting passed over every day in a given market


That will occur, yes. I will pass over the short trips and the round trips. Most others will pass over the locals. I will be one of the few drivers who are looking for locals.





rkozy said:


> . Eventually, word will get out that in order to entice drivers to accept a request, you must enter the ride as a longer trip...then change the destination once you've gained entry into the Uber.



They do similar when they call a cab. Tell the operator that you are going to the airport then when the driver gets there, tell him that you are going to__________________________. I used to tell my cab passengers who were staying at hotels and flying out of Dulles or Friendship Airports to tell the doorman that they were going to the train station. That way, the doorman would whistle up the first cab on the stand and would not sell the trip to one of his payola boys. The customer would not be charged what the driver paid to the doorman for the trip.



rkozy said:


> This is going to create bedlam on a grand scale. This will render the trip information completely useless in a significant number of instances


............not an invalid point. I wind up with no customers. Drivers evict customers so you have customers with no rides..



rkozy said:


> Sure, some or even most riders will enter accurate information on their trip. However, I suspect at least 35% of Uber's low-class clientele will lie and cheat their way to a pick-up.


If my experience in the cab business is any guide, the majority will give accurate information. There will, however, be enough who give inaccurate information to create large scale problems. Regardless of whether your figure is accurate or not, the number will be high enough that there will be more complaints than Uber would like.





rkozy said:


> That's a big chunk of passengers who are going to test the patience of a work force that has shown very little patience in recent months.


.............................if ever..............................................


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Diamondraider said:


> Consider pax today have evolved to adding stops after the ride is accepted, and often they wait until the driver has arrived.


I have noticed that more customers are adding stops after you accept. That is an automatic cancel. I have had one or two add stops once I start the trip.. Some will announce before they do it. I tell them that the ride ends either right here or at the first "stop". If they add and say nothing, I remark on the stop. They acknowledge. I inform them that I can end the ride immediately or at the first "stop"; their choice.
I make it clear to the customer that I do not do stops.

If the customer wants to get wise and offer a cash tip, that changes things. The offer of an in-application tip is not sufficient.


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## montecristo (Aug 15, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> *Upfront fares for better choices*
> 1 hour ago / Jacksonville
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. I hope it comes here.


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## Flawlessbox (Oct 6, 2019)

Let’s see how it goes but that decrease in longer trips is already troubling. Also I will not trust that destination until it is proven. I got burned so many times where 45 min southwest was swapped with quick stop at the bank going to 45 min northwest.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Even I will reject the brew run, Seven-Eleven run, pizza joint run. I do not do round trip locals as you do not get paid for the flip-flop. If, however, they want only one way, I will accept it.


I highly suspect the ability of pax to add stops as they've already entered your vehicle will never go away. That becomes the fly in the ointment here. As long as Uber allows passengers to edit rides post-pickup, we're going to be at the mercy of some unscrupulous people. Of course, you could always cancel and put them out on the street. But, doing that too often would probably get your account flagged.

If passengers feel they have to trick a driver into accepting a request, and the driver feels they will only complete rides that meet a certain criteria, the die for unending conflict is already cast. Uber refuses to address to the real issue: That driver pay is totally inadequate under many circumstances. That's because Uber is selling our valuable time for pennies on the dollar to people who think rides should only cost $7, regardless how long they're waiting in line to pick up some smokes and liquor.


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## warsaw (Apr 8, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> *Upfront fares for better choices*
> 1 hour ago / Jacksonville
> 
> 
> ...


I would not trust Uber's driver pay structure changes to have any positive impact for most drivers, except to try to force us to accept all pings, regardless of distance, profit, and economic sense.

I believe their hidden agenda is to make it harder for long trip drivers to make bank, by taking longer routes and using up additional paid minutes. Short trip are already a hassle in most markets, because of the extra time spent driving to the pick up location and the need to wait for the riders and the extra wear and tear on your vehicle. One long trip for an hour is much better than 3-4 short trips, assuming same total payment for one hour.


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## Flawlessbox (Oct 6, 2019)

rkozy said:


> I highly suspect the ability of pax to add stops as they've already entered your vehicle will never go away. That becomes the fly in the ointment here. As long as Uber allows passengers to edit rides post-pickup, we're going to be at the mercy of some unscrupulous people. Of course, you could always cancel and put them out on the street. But, doing that too often would probably get your account flagged.
> 
> If passengers feel they have to trick a driver into accepting a request, and the driver feels they will only complete rides that meet a certain criteria, the die for unending conflict is already cast. Uber refuses to address to the real issue: That driver pay is totally inadequate under many circumstances. That's because Uber is selling our valuable time for pennies on the dollar to people who think rides should only cost $7, regardless how long they're waiting in line to pick up some smokes and liquor.


Agree. Adding a stop should be consequences not features. $5 per stops and $1 per min to driver will solve a lot of issues but will Uber/Lyft do it?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

warsaw said:


> I believe their hidden agenda is to make it harder for long trip drivers to make bank, by taking longer routes and using up additional paid minutes. Short trip are already a hassle in most markets, because of the extra time spent driving to the pick up location and the need to wait for the riders and the extra wear and tear on your vehicle.


Uber is never going to address the root cause of their deficiencies. They will keep insisting that lipstick on the pig makes everything better. Drivers are keenly aware of what it costs to operate their own vehicle, and what is left of their fare once expenses are paid out. That's why so many of them keep walking out the door, and the ones that do stay are highly selective in the fares they'll accept.

Try as they might, Uber will never get around the simple economic paradox their business model creates.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

rkozy said:


> As long as Uber allows passengers to edit rides post-pickup, we're going to be at the mercy of some unscrupulous people. Of course, you could always cancel and put them out on the street. But, _doing that too often would probably get your account flagged._



This is what I consider even now. While I do put out most people who add stops, there are times when I am just stuck.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Sooo, if I were getting an up front fare it is not in my best interest to deviate from the destination unless they want to get dropped off sooner. No changes, no stops, etc... unless cash is proffered. 
What effect would this have on surge.This could actually be an attempt for Uber to keep more of the fare during high demand periods. I would not put it past them. Bottom line, it changes the game requiring us to come up with new strategies to deal with it.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

rkozy said:


> So, they're now considering doing what they should have been doing from Day One.


If you mean destination, yep.

They really ****ed themselves with Upfront Pricing bullshit. 

If they simplified it to the old 20-25% split and old Surge Multiplier they'd have more drivers. 

But that'd make too much sense. 🤷‍♂️


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## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2021)

They trying to get drivers out of Instacart and other apps. Good luck with that. Tips and per mile rates are way better with other apps. 

Now Uber is relying on drivers doing the math while dropping another customer. It's a win for Uber lol, most drivers will accept anything > 10, while Uber keeps most of the fare.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I see this as a pay cut, they are giving us details we want, however they will be lowering what we get paid. Sure you may make a little more on short trips, however I am willing to bet over all you will be making less money. Smoke and mirrors: "*The upfront fare will replace time and distance rates.*"


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

This is also an attempt to put an end to Longhauling.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

New2This said:


> If you mean destination, yep.
> 
> They really ****ed themselves with Upfront Pricing bullshit.
> 
> ...


Wait a second, are you suggesting that they should align driver and corporate interests so we both make more money? What a bizarre idea! Do you have an exhaust leak that has been causing you to suck exhaust fumes while you are shuffling?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> could actually be an attempt for Uber to keep more of the fare during high demand periods. I would not put it past them. Bottom line, it changes the game requiring us to come up with new strategies to deal with it.


This is the "Sticky Surge" meets "California AB5 concession" for drivers in select markets...which I presume will become most every market within a year. Uber is bleeding help, so they have to come up with another gimmick that tricks drivers into staying, or coming back from other platforms.

I'll admit I am intrigued by the offering. However, I am not fooled by it. My Uber earnings aren't likely to go up because of this new approach. I'll just be more aware of what kind of rides I'm getting before the pax enters my vehicle. Why wasn't that the standard all along?


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

.....oh and by the way you now only have 3 seconds to accept the offer.

Also sounds like they are going to start sending offers to multiple people to let multiple people 

*nearby trip requests*
You can browse nearby requests to find trips you want.

Tap *Available requests* on the map screen and select all the trips that interest you.
Other drivers can be matched with available requests too, so you won’t get every request you pick.
Completed requests will still count toward your promotions.
During the pilot there will only be UberX trips listed on the available request screen. We hope to add Uber XL, Uber Comfort, and Uber Black trips to the available request screen soon.


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Flawlessbox said:


> Agree. Adding a stop should be consequences not features. $5 per stops and $1 per min to driver will solve a lot of issues but will Uber/Lyft do it?


All they’d have to do for me to accept all rides within a 5 mile radius is to pay me $5 base fare, $1.30 a mile, 20¢ a minute that goes up to 50¢ a minute in stopped or near stopped conditions. But we know it’ll never happen because there are too many idiots out there who keep accepting everything they get.

I had one of those idiots in my car last week. His car was in the shop, he doesn’t have the money to fix everything that needs fixing, and I was taking him to his new job as a security guard for a grocery store. I asked him about Uber since he mentioned he also drove for them and he stated that he accepted every trip, no matter how far, because he couldn’t handle waiting for a fare. I questioned his income doing that and how much fuel cost him as well as vehicle maintenance and all I got was incomprehensible gibberish and no straight answers.Then he just kept falling back on its better to accept everything and have trips all day long rather than conserve fuel and wait on trips. Yet, here we are, with him having a broken down car and a low paying job.

Sorry for the essay, he just frustrated me and the fact that so many drivers think like aggravates me since, if we were smarter as a whole, LyUber would have no choice but to bend over for us.


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## Mark James (Sep 21, 2017)

Distance: 20 miles
Time: 30 minutes

Total earnings:
*$14.18*

Omg, $14.18 x 2 =$28.16 per hour. Subtract expenses and risk. This should make ALL drivers quit.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

When has Uber ever made a change to benefit drivers?


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

AvisDeene said:


> All they’d have to do for me to accept all rides within a 5 mile radius is to pay me $5 base fare, $1.30 a mile, 20¢ a minute that goes up to 50¢ a minute in stopped or near stopped conditions. But we know it’ll never happen because there are too many idiots out there who keep accepting everything they get.
> 
> I had one of those idiots in my car last week. His car was in the shop, he doesn’t have the money to fix everything that needs fixing, and I was taking him to his new job as a security guard for a grocery store. I asked him about Uber since he mentioned he also drove for them and he stated that he accepted every trip, no matter how far, because he couldn’t handle waiting for a fare. I questioned his income doing that and how much fuel cost him as well as vehicle maintenance and all I got was incomprehensible gibberish and no straight answers.Then he just kept falling back on its better to accept everything and have trips all day long rather than conserve fuel and wait on trips. Yet, here we are, with him having a broken down care and a low paying job.
> 
> Sorry for the essay, he just frustrated me and the fact that so many drivers think like aggravates me since, if we were smarter as a whole, LyUber would have no choice but to bend over for us.


Your proposal is excellent. However, knowing Uber I don't think it will happen. The bean counters and big wigs in Uber think that they as a technology company should take the largest percentage of the fare, and remit the bread crumbs to the driver. This is just pure greed. It cost very little money to run an app on a server and provide commercial insurance on a high volume scale. 

The mindset is just expoit the stupid minion drivers that join that will continue to work for peanuts.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

New2This said:


> When has Uber ever made a change to benefit drivers?
> 
> View attachment 611067


100% agree. Any change they make is for their benefit, if it helps us for some reason that's only to make it better for them or because they screwed up (in which case they will rescind the change). As soon as there are more drivers back on the road they will right back to squeezing us with the fare differential between what pax pay and what we get, without the benefit of bonuses.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Mark James said:


> Distance: 20 miles
> Time: 30 minutes
> 
> Total earnings:
> ...


It won't be $14.18 x 2 unless you have stacked pings where dropoff is the same as next pickup and both pax are toe to the curb.

More realistic, each pax has 3 minute wait time and each pax takes 7 minutes to get to. So really, this is $14.18 for 40 minutes not 30, which is going to be .75*28.16 = $21.12 in revenue for an hour.

Distance is 20 miles, assume that it will probably take at least 4 miles to get to the pax or so, so let's call it 24 miles.

In my car, at $0.35 per mile expense based on my last 5 years of driving for all gas and maintainence, it is going to be .35*24=$8.40 in expenses for the trip. 

So take that $14.18, subtract $8.40 and the profit is $5.78

So $5.78*2*.75=

$8.67 per hour in profit after expense for me.

Not too bad. Very close to minimum wage in my state.


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## Dr. W. Larry Robertson (Aug 19, 2021)

What are the rollout cities?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> $8.67 per hour in profit after expense for me.
> 
> Not too bad.


I pray you're being sarcastic here.🙏🙏🙏🙏


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

New2This said:


> When has Uber ever made a change to benefit drivers?
> 
> View attachment 611067


They gave us..... BETTER MATHS!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

This new roll out actually has my interest.... This is a longer mile per ride City. Being as huge jax is... It's essentially going to lower the price significantly. 20 mile trips are very common. 

Starting to think the select roll-out is nothing but market targeted price reductions for drivers.


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## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2021)

The end result is more drivers will stay online looking for a decent fare. This will kill the surge forever.

When 20 drivers reject a $5 fare, driver #21 will accept it. Uber won't raise the prices since 20 drivers are online. Uber playing 5D chess on y'all. Back to 60c a mile.


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## Ihateu (Jun 7, 2019)

The old bate and switch.

Fool me once, right Uber?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

AvisDeene said:


> Sorry for the essay, he just frustrated me and the fact that so many drivers think like aggravates me since, if we were smarter as a whole, LyUber would have no choice but to bend over for us.


When Uber dangles crap like Uber Pro status in front of drivers, so many fall for it. They are brilliant at tricking drivers into thinking something like "trip duration and direction" is worth maintaining an 85% AR at all times. It is useless information. Accepting eight out of every nine pings that Uber sends you is a recipe for disaster. I'm surprised that Uber isn't tying the driver's ability to see a passenger's star rating to maintaining a 0% cancel rate.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> The end result is more drivers will stay online looking for a decent fare. This will kill the surge forever.


It's also bound to guarantee more riders with short crap rides will have an even more difficult time scoring a pick-up. Right now, most drivers are forced to roll the dice if they've been sitting idle too long. That at least gives the "minimum fare" passenger a 50/50 shot at getting someone to take their request. Once trip details become available, their odds begin to plummet.

Yes, some ants desperate for fares will eventually bite. However, the number of available drivers willing to take a gamble goes down to zero. They no longer will have the need to gamble with full trip details being made available. That means Uber will have a bunch of passengers who are likely to give up once their requests go unanswered.

Uber's problem is they don't have enough drivers. They don't have enough drivers because they don't pay enough to make this gig profitable. The math on that reality doesn't change just because they're suddenly giving out trip details.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

This is, after all, the same company that told us we'll make more money because they're cutting our pay.

That's okay, I'm not going to start driving for them again until the pandemic dies down again. My state looks like it's soon going to test the peak numbers we had back in January. 

I'm fully vaxxed, but my Significant Other isn't, and I'd like to keep my relationship.


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## OC UB DR (Aug 20, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


> *Upfront fares for better choices*
> 1 hour ago / Jacksonville
> 
> 
> ...


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## OC UB DR (Aug 20, 2021)

When every body choice to do Uber is because you knew what Uber business run so short o long trip with surge or not = you have to do it because your choice is mad hear rider's compliant about cancelation for drivers because excuses !! So now Uber cut n lies with upfront price in surge time o fare amount is totally wrong but like me or other drivers trying to do the best that is the price that we ll pay for your bad choice.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Lord Summerisle said:


> Interesting. I wonder if there is any pending legislation in these areas threatening to regulate Uber. They only do something to benefit the drivers if they have to. In California we began to see the upfront info as Uber's business model was challenged by AB5 and then Prop 22. With the passing of Prop 22 Uber knew they had carte blanche to exploit us as ruthlessly as possible and they tied trip info to acceptance, a real dick move which has resulted in drivers not knowing anything about the upcoming ride most of the time. So much for "flexibility and choice."


There's discussion of regulating Uber in at least some states. The Attorney General of Massachusetts is going after Uber.

You're absolutely correct about Uber only doing things for the drivers when they have to.

Drivers should take a good look at how Uber wasted no time taking away all of the California improvements when they felt the coast was clear. What Uber giveth, Uber taketh away.

This is why I believe these gig companies must be regulated.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Flawlessbox said:


> Let’s see how it goes but that decrease in longer trips is already troubling. Also I will not trust that destination until it is proven. I got burned so many times where 45 min southwest was swapped with quick stop at the bank going to 45 min northwest.


Given the fact that Uber took away all of the California improvements when they felt it was safe to do so, it's perfectly reasonable to believe they'll do it again with these changes.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Lord Summerisle said:


> they tied trip info to acceptance, a real dick move which has resulted in drivers not knowing anything about the upcoming ride most of the time. So much for "flexibility and choice."


Mammaries on a bull are more useful than trip info that's tied to acceptance rates.


----------



## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> If the numbers are right we getting a raise in base pay lol.... I'm not holding my breath.


Looks like a rate cut. Long trips are worth less. Same crap Uber always does.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Drivers *AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF MASSACHUSETTS *should take a good look at how Uber wasted no time taking away all of the California improvements when they felt the coast was clear.


You missed something


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Its only better if the rates increase. Upfront info. is nice but now I need to be paid fairly for a service at market rates i.e. Taxi rates


I already have this uber update. It does not matter to me . Lyft pays 23 % more. Uber stays off unless there is a surge . 
Uber screw you and your lower pay. I am not driving for you !


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

rkozy said:


> I highly suspect the ability of pax to add stops as they've already entered your vehicle will never go away. That becomes the fly in the ointment here. As long as Uber allows passengers to edit rides post-pickup, we're going to be at the mercy of some unscrupulous people. Of course, you could always cancel and put them out on the street. But, doing that too often would probably get your account flagged.
> 
> If passengers feel they have to trick a driver into accepting a request, and the driver feels they will only complete rides that meet a certain criteria, the die for unending conflict is already cast. Uber refuses to address to the real issue: That driver pay is totally inadequate under many circumstances. That's because Uber is selling our valuable time for pennies on the dollar to people who think rides should only cost $7, regardless how long they're waiting in line to pick up some smokes and liquor.


Wouldn’t it be nice if Uber marketed stops as a premium service and we all could make more money?

Instead they added more stops to compensate for drivers finally quitting after years of pay decreases and reduced incentives.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

rkozy said:


> It's also bound to guarantee more riders with short crap rides will have an even more difficult time scoring a pick-up. Right now, most drivers are forced to roll the dice if they've been sitting idle too long. That at least gives the "minimum fare" passenger a 50/50 shot at getting someone to take their request. Once trip details become available, their odds begin to plummet.
> 
> Yes, some ants desperate for fares will eventually bite. However, the number of available drivers willing to take a gamble goes down to zero. They no longer will have the need to gamble with full trip details being made available. That means Uber will have a bunch of passengers who are likely to give up once their requests go unanswered.
> 
> Uber's problem is they don't have enough drivers. They don't have enough drivers because they don't pay enough to make this gig profitable. The math on that reality doesn't change just because they're suddenly giving out trip details.


ber’s wants to be a premium service company AND a commoditized utility at the same time. And everything in between. 

Imagine if all Uber price levels were actually different apps. UberPool, UberX/XL, UberBlack/SUV
A situation like that would force pax to choose the service level first and manages expectations at the same time. 
Supply/Demand would be based on service segment.
Pax would no longer circumvent surge on X by taking a much cheaper Black. 
Drivers could opt-in to service levels. 

I think pax price manipulation and driver exploitation would drop. 
Thoughts?


----------



## indydriver68 (Mar 13, 2018)

Wonder if Uber will hide or not disclose what riders are paying for the trip like Lyft does. Wouldn’t be surprising so Uber can pay you $12 for the trip while charging the rider $54. Anyone know in the areas this new pay scheme is being tested?


----------



## seesaw (Aug 20, 2021)

Ihateu said:


> The old bate and switch.


The master of bate and switch


----------



## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

We were never really ICs because we never knew what we were getting paid up front.

Sadly, the rates are still so low that it's still not worth it to get back behind the wheel.

Even in their examples, you're making less than $1.50/mi on shorties and less than $0.75/mi on long trips LESS dead miles.

LOL


----------



## montecristo (Aug 15, 2020)

I just saw that the trip minimum has been raised to $3.71


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> This new roll out actually has my interest.... This is a longer mile per ride City. Being as huge jax is... It's essentially going to lower the price significantly. 20 mile trips are very common.
> 
> Starting to think the select roll-out is nothing but market targeted price reductions for drivers.


The purpose of Uber's elimination of miles and minutes pay rates is to LOWER driver pay. It won't work.

Seeing destinations will RAISE driver pay, despite Uber's use of "Black Box" pay for drivers.

Uber is pretty much copying their Eats pay model, but delivering food is completely different from transporting people.

Getting your chicken wings order cancelled due to lack of drivers is an inconvenience for the customer and a cost of doing business for Uber. Not being able to get an Uber to take you to the airport or to work is a DISASTER for both the pax and Uber. It's for that very reason Uber will have to offer bonuses or other incentives to get unappealing rides accepted.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

KenLV said:


> We were never really ICs because we never knew what we were getting paid up front.


That's part of why we're not ICs, but the primary reason we're not ICs is the massive control Uber has over the entire process. All rules, regulations, prices, and dispatch are controlled by them.


----------



## seesaw (Aug 20, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> Not being able to get an Uber to take you to the airport or to work is a DISASTER for both the pax and Uber.


Also a disaster for the driver


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

seesaw said:


> Also a disaster for the driver


Not if the pay stinks.


----------



## oyeah (Aug 21, 2021)

*Before*
Distance: 20 miles
Time: 30 minutes

Total earnings:
*$15.74*
*After*
Distance: 20 miles
Time: 30 minutes

Total earnings:
*$14.18*

*Before*
Distance: 5 miles
Time: 15 minutes

Total earnings:
*$6.11*
*After*
Distance: 5 miles
Time: 15 minutes

Total earnings:
*$7.20*

what moron would accept either of these rides?
theres still 5-20 minutes before and 5-20 minutes after of dead miles / labors time that needs to be accounted for, costs are $7-$10 an hour minimum

I do pray it's actually true and hits my city though already at 99% airport rides, since 2016 if it wasnt airport it was cancelled or ignored, I get my details regardless lol, but least now I won't have to play games & if pax enters fake destination and i get there oh well gtfo and now wait another 5-20 minutes i guess I wont entertain that for 1 second

truly a desperate move but should have always been this way

but no ones getting picked up my phone on silent so many requests and most are 10-20 minutes away so riders are waitin 30+ minutes if they get picked up at all lmao so again theyre forced into doing the right thing

next update will be allowing riders to pre tip because only morons are accepting 95+% of the absurd requests being sent

will milk it till it ends


----------



## Flawlessbox (Oct 6, 2019)

oyeah said:


> *Before*
> Distance: 20 miles
> Time: 30 minutes
> 
> ...


Full time drivers are bad at finance and business so there will be no delays in pickup at least in New Jersey.


----------



## OC UB DR (Aug 20, 2021)

indydriver68 said:


> Wonder if Uber will hide or not disclose what riders are paying for the trip like Lyft does. Wouldn’t be surprising so Uber can pay you $12 for the trip while charging the rider $54. Anyone know in the areas this new pay scheme is being tested?


Off course CA isn't tested is" tosted " is like 11 miles trip checking out on rider app rider FARE $90 in the same point driver app showing $7:50 + I guess driver get paid around $20_$25 so $7:50 = 7× for riders the switch from multiplier to plus go a BACK FRONT UP UBER DRAW.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Diamondraider said:


> I think pax price manipulation and driver exploitation would drop.
> Thoughts?


Uber wants to be all things to all people, and they want to do it in one app. That means having multiple apps for pax to use will never happen. People are leery enough giving out credit card information as it is. Imagine having to do it four different times for the exact same company? Sounds like a hassle, and an increased risk of my personal information getting breached.

Also, Uber pax are entitled by nature, because Uber trains them to be that way. Simply dicing up the service levels into different apps will not preclude paxholes from being paxholes. The five college kids who want to ride in your Prius will still claim no Uber XLs were available, so they had go to UberX instead.

This is a morally bankrupt company that trains its passengers (and drivers too) to become self-serving malcontents. There's no amount of jerk-proofing that can be done to save Uber from itself at this point.


----------



## 122819 (Sep 11, 2017)

New2This said:


> I pray you're being sarcastic here.🙏🙏🙏🙏


I'd rather die if that's what I was making hourly


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

rkozy said:


> Uber wants to be all things to all people, and they want to do it in one app. That means having multiple apps for pax to use will never happen. People are leery enough giving out credit card information as it is. Imagine having to do it four different times for the exact same company? Sounds like a hassle, and an increased risk of my personal information getting breached.
> 
> Also, Uber pax are entitled by nature, because Uber trains them to be that way. Simply dicing up the service levels into different apps will not preclude paxholes from being paxholes. The five college kids who want to ride in your Prius will still claim no Uber XLs were available, so they had go to UberX instead.
> 
> This is a morally bankrupt company that trains its passengers (and drivers too) to become self-serving malcontents. There's no amount of jerk-proofing that can be done to save Uber from itself at this point.


There are 7000 threads here stating what you just said. 

I was hoping to have a little creative brain storming session. For intellectual fun. 

Maybe a break from COVID 24/7.


----------



## williammalakgd (Aug 23, 2021)

Every year uber has rapidly changed its features according to current trends. In my point of view, I have listed some current trending features that make the Uber app as better

1. Social login
2. Driver verification
3. Gender-based preferences
4. Covid safety features


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Monday noon, nothing new to report as of now.

Except they are now limiting the surge this morning.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

williammalakgd said:


> Every year uber has rapidly changed its features according to current trends. In my point of view, I have listed some current trending features that make the Uber app as better
> 
> 1. Social login
> 2. Driver verification
> ...


Social login is not recommended. One hack and you have a mess on your hands and likely no money left to finance fixing it all. 
What are gender-based preferences for the Uber platform?

Personally, “Covid safety features” is just word salad used to put lipstick on the proverbial 🐷


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Fify





Diamondraider said:


> Personally, “Covid safety features” is just word salad used to put lipstick on the proverbial 🐷 without lube.



PS... Your the 🐖


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Fify
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And here comes the throw from left field….


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

As I was doing a couple airport trips Sunday I was thinking of this, both of my PAX were in a hurry and asked me to go the 14 mile longer way to avoid the hour+ of backed up traffic leaving the area. With the upfront pay I don't see myself doing airport trips any more on Sunday. They would not be worth it.

Option 1 take the Uber route and sit in traffic for 1.5+ hours and not get paid because Uber never accounts for the traffic delays that exist every Sunday.
Option 2 take the longer by 14 miles route and save 1.5+ hours and not get paid for the extra miles and Toll.

Option 3 stop doing Sunday airport trips because Uber is screwing with the pay.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

The crap show begins.....

This was not 0 miles away, it was 5 miles away. 








With...... 








So roughly $16.00 hr.... New pricing? 
14.95 @ $.65
4.68 52 x $.09 
$19.83 total 

So regular prices on this one. 

So from the start.. Like normal... It's not correct. 

You have to know your market thoroughly to know the streets that they're talking about until they get that fixed. So if you don't know your Market you can be driving 15-20 minutes before the pickup with the way Uber has its pickup times now.

More I'm sure to come


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Well... If you're running a black account your base fare just went down $2.30 to $3.21 on x rides with this new pricing. I wonder if they will add the the booking fee in after the ride?


These are straight x rides pickup time and drop-off times. 


39 min for 5.65
20 min for 3.31
23 min 5.64
15 min 3.20
23 min 4.20
41 min 9.20
47 min 10.45
26 min 3.20
23 min 3.20
31 min 6.85
24min 6.76
24min 6.19

The request are at times overloading the system to where you can't even keep up with the information they're giving you on the screen before you lose the request.

It's amazing how fast the Pings pop up for $3.20 and disappear.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

There is no way this is safe driving while this is going on. 

You have to constantly refresh to get new requests. When they are accepted by someone else they just sit on the screen instead of disappearing. 

Surge works but does not show surge on pings that are in surge area.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> If the numbers are right we getting a raise in base pay lol.... I'm not holding my breath.


They aren't. No raise. 

Changes never benifit drivers.


----------



## Jeff1205 (May 15, 2016)

I figured I would take some screen shots to show you what this garbage is looking like. It went live in my area today.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Jeff1205 said:


> I figured I would take some screen shots to show you what this garbage is looking like. It went live in my area today.
> View attachment 611861
> View attachment 611863
> View attachment 611864
> ...


Ya.... S)-(it just got bad......

Not even a surge worth mentioning for the game tonight.


----------



## flymiester (Aug 27, 2019)

Who the eff cares? I’m going on day 2 waiting for a response from Uber support why I can’t get online. No effing body answers the phone or responds to chats. I’m coming back to driving after a 1 year hiatus. All my documents are approved and in the green.













Why do I even bother with this dreadful company? Lyft is even worse from what I’m hearing. Plus I’m tired of all Lyft’s pro queer and yeah illegal alien emails. That company is totally run by leftist cucks. If I csnt get it resolved by end of the week, I’m out.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

flymiester said:


> Who the eff cares? I’m going on day 2 waiting for a response from Uber support why I can’t get online. No effing body answers the phone or responds to chats. I’m coming back to driving after a 1 year hiatus. All my documents are approved and in the green.
> View attachment 611885
> View attachment 611885
> Why do I even bother with this dreadful company? Lyft is even worse from what I’m hearing. Plus I’m tired of all Lyft’s pro queer and yeah illegal alien emails. That company is totally run by leftist cucks. If I csnt get it resolved by end of the week, I’m out.


If you don't care you definitely should..... The new Uber rollout is killing everything. 

But why should we care about you... You can't even get online? Lol


----------



## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> *Upfront fares for better choices*
> 1 hour ago / Jacksonville
> 
> 
> ...


interesting that all the examples pay >$12 but 90% of the rides in my market are <$5


----------



## Bevital (Mar 9, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> *Upfront fares for better choices*
> 1 hour ago / Jacksonville
> 
> 
> ...


So let me get this right, you are going to tell me that "Joe's multistop trip" to/from the Circle K is going to pay $3.15 ???? And I still have the option to reject? Hallelujah ! ! !


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Bevital said:


> So let me get this right, you are going to tell me that "Joe's multistop trip" to/from the Circle K is going to pay $3.15 ???? And I still have the option to reject? Hallelujah ! ! !


No... When this all came on this afternoon.. I sat for 1 1/2 hours trying to see wtf is going on. 

That multi stop was only reviled after I accepted it. When I saw the request pop up I seen the very high time amount for the very little miles and money that I was curious what it had on it. That was the only reason I even accepted that ride. Took screen shots and canceled. 

So what I'm thinking is anything with high time and low pay will be multi stops. 

You won't see multiple stop until you accept it like normal. Sorry...... No joy there.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Another interesting pay discrepancy is doing X on black accounts.

X base is 3.21
Black base is 5.51

The 2.30 is for the booking fee. Black accounts get the extra charge.

But the request ping are the same price.

However... There's a itemized list of the booking fee added into the price for black accounts. How can an extra charge be the same price?

More to come on this.... I need pics. Lol


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

wow jeff some horrible fares, imho $70 for over 100 miles to ocala . all dead miles back wow. better off at walmart


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

bobby747 said:


> wow jeff some horrible fares, imho $70 for over 100 miles to ocala . all dead miles back wow. better off at walmart


Try 200ml 200min for $156 I think it was.... Into Georgia. Where you can't work till you get back to Florida. At least his was in Florida and able to maybe work back with a ride.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jeff1205 said:


> I figured I would take some screen shots to show you what this garbage is looking like. It went live in my area today.
> View attachment 611861
> View attachment 611863
> View attachment 611864
> ...


Let's see if I've got this straight... Giving drivers a nanosecond to decide whether or not to accept an offer that's text-only, doesn't include an accompanying map, and doesn't tell the driver whether or not there are multi-stops is Dara's idea of drivers making "informed decisions"?

And for good measure the pay rates are atrocious ($66 for a 118 mile/133 minute trip)

You gotta be kidding.

GFYS Dara


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Jeff1205 said:


> I figured I would take some screen shots to show you what this garbage is looking like. It went live in my area today.
> View attachment 611861
> View attachment 611863
> View attachment 611864
> ...


118/ miles for $65? Ouch


----------



## Jeff1205 (May 15, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Let's see if I've got this straight... Giving drivers a nanosecond to decide whether or not to accept an offer that's text-only, doesn't include an accompanying map, and doesn't tell the driver whether or not there are multi-stops is Dara's idea of drivers making "informed decisions"?
> 
> And for good measure the pay rates are atrocious ($66 for a 118 mile/133 minute trip)
> 
> ...


Of course there were drivers snatching these rides up. It puzzles me and I thought drivers were getting smarter. You can literally do any other gig and make more money in less time and miles than that $66 trip.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2021)

Just take a vacation. Learn some skills. Rates will be low if you stay online looking for rides. You don't wanna work for these rates. If someone else does, it's their problem. Evolution will take care of those people.

You are basically giving free rides every time Uber announces a new feature. They have research and focus groups before they release this.

Their employees are screwed since stock options are worthless now. Uber IPOd at 40, still at 40 something. They need bigger profits next quarter to make their options worthwhile.


Another option is to drive for Alto, they give you a car and pay $15-$20 an hour.


----------



## flymiester (Aug 27, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> If you don't care you definitely should..... The new Uber rollout is killing everything.
> 
> But why should we care about you... You can't even get online? Lol


Uber, Lyft any gig work sucks. I do real estate and notary mostly. I was just going to get back with Uber as something to fill in gaps. Honestly could give a shit less. But yeah sucks for those of you doing it full time. And now it's day 3 cannot get to Uber support or respond to chats. I'll give it till Friday then delete the app.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

My hope would be that the ants burn out quickly on this crap and then can't afford to replace their cars. This whole system would be very interesting at bar close time, I get to pick my unicorn ride if I'm fast enough but at other times it looks absolutely dreadful. Do you get screwed out of wait time too like you do for reservations? This looks like a really bad idea except for certain very narrow use cases.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Upfront pricing............ Right


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 612059
> 
> Upfront pricing............ Right


29 minutes for $5.03? Consider yourself lucky.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

New2This said:


> 29 minutes for $5.03? Consider yourself lucky.
> 
> View attachment 612082


Ya I mean that's part of the median $32/hr income Uber keeps preaching about.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

rkozy said:


> Sure, some or even most riders will enter accurate information on their trip. However, I suspect at least 35% of Uber's low-class clientele will lie and cheat their way to a pick-up. That's a big chunk of passengers who are going to test the patience of a work force that has shown very little patience in recent months.


If I responded to a pickup for a 30 mile ride and once in the car the pax changed it to a 2 mile ride I'd have no problem pulling over and ending the trip right there.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jeff1205 said:


> Of course there were drivers snatching these rides up. It puzzles me and I thought drivers were getting smarter. You can literally do any other gig and make more money in less time and miles than that $66 trip.


I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the offer started LOWER than $66, but as drivers kept declining Uber's disgusting offers, they started increasing it. I doubt there will be any takers at $66, $76, or even $86 for that ride.

I'm guessing that Uber's doing what they do on Eats, which is to try to find a sucker to accept a trip at a truly horrendous payout offer and gradually increase the offer until someone accepts it.


----------



## montecristo (Aug 15, 2020)

Bevital said:


> So let me get this right, you are going to tell me that "Joe's multistop trip" to/from the Circle K is going to pay $3.15 ???? And I still have the option to reject? Hallelujah ! ! !


Joe doesn't remember much these days, just drop him off at the Circle K


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Roughly 18%decline in pay overall.... Way to go Uber. It's official your upfront pricing does nothing but benefited you all the way.


----------



## flymiester (Aug 27, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Uber wants to be all things to all people, and they want to do it in one app. That means having multiple apps for pax to use will never happen. People are leery enough giving out credit card information as it is. Imagine having to do it four different times for the exact same company? Sounds like a hassle, and an increased risk of my personal information getting breached.
> 
> Also, Uber pax are entitled by nature, because Uber trains them to be that way. Simply dicing up the service levels into different apps will not preclude paxholes from being paxholes. The five college kids who want to ride in your Prius will still claim no Uber XLs were available, so they had go to UberX instead.
> 
> This is a morally bankrupt company that trains its passengers (and drivers too) to become self-serving malcontents. There's no amount of jerk-proofing that can be done to save Uber from itself at this point.


Spoken like a Super Hero


----------



## flymiester (Aug 27, 2019)

I'm back on both platforms. Tuesday was good. Over $100 in less than 3 hours. Uber still paying me a long distance pickup fee. Just got a ping from Lyft for a pickup 20 minutes away. I assume Lyft is still not paying a long distance pickup fee? Did an airport run this morning from my town. 16 miles plus and $25. No tip, cheap ****ers. However so far no paxholes. I hope this new rollout doesn't come here. I can get back to doing things the way I used to, shuffling and ignoring with little downside. 😏 If I play this right, I should be able to make $30 an hour plus. Any other threads I should be looking at to see what has changed in the last year? So far everything seems pretty much the same, slid right back into it pretty easy, no bumps.


----------



## flymiester (Aug 27, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> Roughly 18%decline in pay overall.... Way to go Uber. It's official your upfront pricing does nothing but benefited you all the way.


I don't want this upfront pricing crap here. Things seem to be profitable on my end in this location.


----------



## Nythain (Jul 15, 2021)

Jeff1205 said:


> I figured I would take some screen shots to show you what this garbage is looking like. It went live in my area today.
> View attachment 611861
> View attachment 611863
> View attachment 611864
> ...


Holy shit. I'll quit when things get that bad here. And people are really accepting this? I'm a total newb and even my ape brain knows those are horrible losses. I'd say there goes any chance of me complaining about my market, but it's Uber, every market can complain what uber pays.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

46 hours
53 trips
$1009 total
988 miles
$19/hr

So... 
Advertised median pay for Uber was $32 an hour

Uber sent out a thing on Wednesday saying the median pay for Jacksonville was $21 an hour.

Rough calculations so trip numbers have increased by 21%.

Revenue usually generated for those trips has fallen roughly 19%.

This is a rough estimate on the percentages I would have to dive in a lot deeper if you really want to know but I don't want to because I don't want to get any 1 depressed.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Into Georgia... With a Deadhead back. Was a $70 trip pre upfront prices


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Request are coming on so fast a regular ping gets cut very short to where you can't accept it and therefore knocks down your sticky surge or changes to half the surge if your in the surge.


----------



## Nythain (Jul 15, 2021)

So basically gonna have to find a new hustle if this rolls out in all markets


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Nythain said:


> So basically gonna have to find a new hustle if this rolls out in all markets


Dunno but the rabbit hole is getting deeper....

I have a bad feeling about it all looking at the data I been collecting. Blatantly takin money from the drivers.

This roll out also confirmed the 3rd party fees does not always go to the 3rd party as listed... But rather Uber instead. If I'm right black car drivers are going to be in for a huge surprise... Not the good kind.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2021)

Homeless old man pays me better for beer run ...coz he has no ID. 
Fuber Klazy .


----------



## Goneguy47 (Aug 29, 2021)

Gary275 said:


> We are desperately short of drivers and after 7 years can't find our own a**to wipe so we are flinging chit at wall to see what sticks. Htf is reducing fares on long trips going to help. Plenty of missed flights from suburbs coming up


I’m just starting. how long have you been in business and is it worth it ?I am retired on Social Security But I need to make at least $2500 a month to cover expenses in taxes.Is that reasonable I live in Reno Nevada . We’re short on drivers a month or so ago from what I understand I know I couldn’t get a trip one Saturday night at all…


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Wait... We we're at $3.20 for a base fare. I get this at 4:05


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> Wait... We we're at $3.20 for a base fare. I get this at 4:05
> View attachment 614364
> View attachment 614365


🤣

I hope members in this test area are pounding social media with your dissatisfaction, otherwise we are all going to get screwed by this. Hit up Uber Facebook and Twitter with your complaints.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> 🤣
> 
> I hope members in this test area are pounding social media with your dissatisfaction, otherwise we are all going to get screwed by this. Hit up Uber Facebook and Twitter with your complaints.


Crap... I don't ever use Twitter or Facebook.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> Wait... We we're at $3.20 for a base fare. I get this at 4:05
> View attachment 614364
> View attachment 614365


So it's 16 minutes away. That means you'll get there at 4:21. You'll then have to wait at least 19 minutes for the pax to show up. All for $2.88. You lose money before you even start the ride.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Illini said:


> So it's 16 minutes away. That means you'll get there at 4:21. You'll then have to wait at least 19 minutes for the pax to show up. All for $2.88. You lose money before you even start the ride.


Yup


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## Daves0077 (Nov 21, 2020)

I take them to the stop they added and then drive off, cancel due to rider behavior or whatever.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> Base here is $3.20.... That says $6.11


My base with Grubhub is $8. 

Their algorithm is such that if you refuse rides below, say, $8, eventually they stop sending you those orders. It might take a few days, but that's my experience. Now I NEVER get a trip offered me below $8.

With Uber, I noticed no such thing. They keep sending shit orders.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

montecristo said:


> Interesting. I hope it comes here.


Grubhub has been doing this as long as I've been driving for them.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I do not do round trip locals as you do not get paid for the flip-flop.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that when you say "you don't get paid for the flip-flip" you mean that you'll get paid LESS because you lose out on the minimum fare and base fares that you'd be entitled to if the two trips were separate?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that when you say "you don't get paid for the flip-flip" you mean that you'll get paid LESS because you lose out on the minimum fare and base fares that you'd be entitled to if the two trips were separate?


Close enough.........................if you run a job from Prospect at 34th to the Seven-Eleven on P at 27th and back, you get the same four dollars that you would had you just gone one way. You might get a few pennies over the four dollars, but not much. Essentially, you run the flip flop for free. I had just this trip, once. It showed up only as one-way, but when the guy got in, he told me that he wanted me to wait and bring him back to Prospect at 34th. I politely balked. He just as politely pushed it. This went back and forth until he asked me why. I told him. He offered me an ten dollar in-application tip to wait. I did let him know that most people who promise that, especially on unprofitable jobs such as this, do not follow through on it for various reasons. I was nice and told him that for most of them, they simply forget once they disembark, as I am now out of sight thus out of mind.

He offered me a deal: I show him what Uber paid me when we got back and he would not get out of the car until I saw the tip in application. ..............Deal. I let him know that the one way fare was four bananas. He was in and out of Seven Eleven. We got back to the start, I ended the trip and showed him the four dollars and seventeen cents. I told him that I was in error: I got paid seventeen cents for the return He was quite unpleasantly surprised. He admitted that he understood why I was balking at bringing him back. He did give me the ten dollar tip.

Under the Taxicab Zone System, that trip would have been charged as two trips..........PLUS the waiting time.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> With Uber, I noticed no such thing. They keep sending shit orders.


Doordash also keeps sending shit orders regardless of how many you decline.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

2 month ago Uber said you could make $1100 for about 40 hrs in Jacksonville. They then said median hourly rate was $31. 1 month ago it went to median hourly rate at $21 for 40. Now.....










This proves the upfront prices has done nothing but lowered the revenue Uber pays to drivers with a "its this or nothing" pay schedule.....


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> 2 month ago Uber said you could make $1100 for about 40 hrs in Jacksonville. They then said median hourly rate was $31. 1 month ago it went to median hourly rate at $21 for 40. Now.....
> 
> View attachment 614757
> 
> ...


When they talk about hourly averages, it pertains only when the app is engaged, i.e., when there is a delivery or person in the car.

In real time, the hourly average is going to be substantially less because of dead time, dead miles, which are the inevitable result of between trips time. 

What you need to do is start your clock, time you entered the car for a work day, and time you left, and include lunchtime off the clock, just as you would if you had a regular job. Then calculate what you are actually making per hour. 

I know every time I put in 40 realtime hours, the uber app said I worked only 25, or thereabouts.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Ya sorry.... This was all Uber propaganda. Nothing to do with me.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Illini said:


> So it's 16 minutes away. That means you'll get there at 4:21. You'll then have to wait at least 19 minutes for the pax to show up. All for $2.88. You lose money before you even start the ride.


I no longer accept Uber pings that are reservations. They are guaranteed money-losers in almost every case.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Saints vs Cheese packers game was a true test of this new system. All I. An say is and I QUOTE, 


"McKittrick, after very careful consideration, sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new defense system sucks!" 

General Beringer, 
War Games


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> General Beringer,
> War Games


Goddammit, I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it'd do any good!


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

rkozy said:


> I no longer accept Uber pings that are reservations. They are guaranteed money-losers in almost every case.


After they deducted a dollar from my cut, not theirs, but my cut, for the reservation on an XL trip, I've been rejecting every one they sent me. The bastards got me to take one by marking it as a 45+ minute trip when in actuality it was a reservation going 15 minutes away. So now I reject 45+ minute trips from them.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

More Uber propaganda.... 

Was 31
Then is was 21
Now with the new upfront prices... 

*Recent driver earnings with tips in your area are $18/hour for drivers who drove passengers*
The stated trip earnings of $18/hour are based on median earnings of drivers in Jacksonville from 08/30/21 to 09/13/21 who drove at least 20 hours per week. Actual earnings vary, depending on factors like time of day, location, and number of trips provided. Earnings include trip fares, some promotional offers (including Quest and Consecutive Trips), and tips, which are provided at the discretion of the rider. Median earnings in your specific location may be lower than the city figure. Since median is the middle, you may make more or less than the median amount.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm amazed at these emails, it tells me there are a lot of really bad or desperate ants. In my area for the same time period they quoted $24 an hour. I did $46 an hour. Granted I only work peak times on the weekend, maybe 25 hours but it tells me there must be a bunch of ants grinding during the day for $15 before expenses.


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## Gary275 (Jan 26, 2018)

Sorry buddy haven't checked forums in a long time. Each area is different. Best advice i can give u is its seasonal, good times with bad. So try it for yourself and see how it works out. Drive only during busy times whether its early morning or later night or middle of day. I ve been doing this since 2017 and this is not easy money to say the least. For $2500 monthly you need to make about 3200 to 3500 gross, for making that much you'll have to work somewhere between 150 to 250 hours monthly which works out to about 50 hours weekly. Expenses are about $5 an hour . I don't know how busy Reno is , last time I was there was in 2000 it was going down then and have heard its sort of revived and things r better now.


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## Gary275 (Jan 26, 2018)

Goneguy47 said:


> I’m just starting. how long have you been in business and is it worth it ?I am retired on Social Security But I need to make at least $2500 a month to cover expenses in taxes.Is that reasonable I live in Reno Nevada . We’re short on drivers a month or so ago from what I understand I know I couldn’t get a trip one Saturday night at all…


I replied above. Sorry didn't quote u


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

It's a joke here now. Long trips are not worth it. Short trips are to far away. 

Average pick up time for travel is 13 min. So unless your on a surge or a mid length trip it's not worth it. I finally figured out the sweet spot. Overall revenue took a hit so no more 1500 weeks in 50 hours. It's almost impossible to hit more then $30 an hour now.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

AvisDeene said:


> 20¢ a minute that goes up to 50¢ a minute in stopped or near stopped conditions


Please expound. It's odd to think one expects more money for less work (not driving) and less expense (parked idling vehicle *always* cheaper per minute).


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> In my car, at $0.35 per mile expense


This is the problem. Trim about $0.10 and it'll be better.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Uber will have to offer bonuses or other incentives to get unappealing rides accepted.


Yes, it's called a Quest promotion.


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2021)

It's better to quit Uber since it's not even worth driving with them


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## Rampage (8 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> *Upfront fares for better choices*
> 1 hour ago / Jacksonville
> 
> 
> ...


What am I missing? I’m in the same city as you and I already see the fare and destination.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> Please expound. It's odd to think one expects more money for less work (not driving) and less expense (parked idling vehicle *always* cheaper per minute).


It’s odd to think that Uber/Lyft expects to capture me in a ride with their pax and force me to make $9.00/hr while sitting there.


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## kdlewis1028 (May 21, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> If the numbers are right we getting a raise in base pay lol.... I'm not holding my breath.


Someone will take Uber to court and probably win. Uber will be force to pay us all back what they owe. Truth always comes out. Just got to be patient.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Rampage said:


> What am I missing? I’m in the same city as you and I already see the fare and destination.


That was like 7 months ago


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## Rampage (8 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> That was like 7 months ago


Oh…lol.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Rideshare Dude said:


> It’s odd to think that Uber/Lyft expects to capture me in a ride with their pax and force me to make $9.00/hr while sitting there.


When my car is idling between trips, it costs me $1.25 per hour in fuel. My income is $0.00 per hour.

I'll gladly sit on my ass to read online and watch porn for $9.00 per hour.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> When my car is idling between trips, it costs me $1.25 per hour in fuel. My income is $0.00 per hour.
> 
> I'll gladly sit on my ass to read online and watch porn for $9.00 per hour.


You watch porn with a pax in your car?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Rideshare Dude said:


> You watch porn with a pax in your car?


No, while I'm waiting for them to do their business in the stores and gas stations.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

So August was the roll out. I've concluded this. 

Mr. McKittrick, after very careful consideration, sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new driving system sucks.

1 reason why. 

This was nothing but another scheme to reduce driver earnings by 20% at least across the board.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> This is the problem. Trim about $0.10 and it'll be better.


I could trim like $0.10 per mile if I could manage to stop getting traffic tickets and crashing into things. I factor $700 traffic tickets and a few multi thousand dollar auto repairs into that number.

Problem is that I'm a shit driver and must pay the price for it.


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