# How To Count Earnings?



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

How much did I earn last week?

Simple question? Not when you have so many different ways to count. Let's look at last week to illustrate the point.

In "hard" figures I worked 61.5 hours, booked 650.72, and spent 136.54 on gas. 

Simple math says I netted 514.18, or 8.36/hr. If only it was that simple.

Because . . . 

First off, my hour count includes 3 hours commuting to the heart of the "zone." That's 40 minutes just to reach the border of the service area and 50 minutes from there to the center. Deduct my commute, and my hourly rate looks to be 11.05/hr.

Since we don't pay taxes - more on that later - that 11.05 compares to your take-home from a 15/hr. job.

That's the quick and dirty count. My next post will show how this is presented to the tax man.

Let's now look at last week from the tax perspective. 

My book was 650 72. To get that I drove 1738.9 miles.

To cover the less visible costs (tire wear, insurance, depreciation, etc.) we can deduct 0.54 per mile. This gives me a mileage deduction of 939.06.

That's right. I made 651 and can deduct 939. In tax terms, I LOST 288 last week. No taxes due.

Not bad, considering my bank account is 514.18 richer. Welcome to the world of accounting.

Depending on how I crunch the numbers, last week I:
- Made 8/hr.;
- Made 15/hr.; or,
- Lost 288.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

This is ones of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a while. Next its going to be "lower rates equal more money". We already got that from uber and your grasp on accounting is poor at best.

By the way, you drove 1700 miles to make 650? You really suck at this.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> This is ones of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a while. Next its going to be "lower rates equal more money". We already got that from uber and your grasp on accounting is poor at best.
> 
> By the way, you drove 1700 miles to make 650? You really suck at this.


I don't think his is an ignorant post at all. Whether he sucks at this or not is not the question (I know I wouldn't be happy with those numbers). But his math is absolutely correct as far as it goes. The thing is it dosent go far enough

What's missing is a discussion of all the costs beyond gas. For example, At 1700 miles a week (85000 miles a year) that car is going to crap out sooner or later. I drive about the same number of miles and I book a $300 per week expense for car replacement so at the end of the year I can buy something a little newer

So I would add to the ops post the possibility that he made about $200 for the week


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

You earned $650 in 60 hours of driving. Is it really that slow where you are?


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

You made $8/hr after gas. Not including taxes and other expenses. Deducting a crazy amount of miles doesn't increase your hourly earnings.

You'll also have issues if you keep filing at a loss.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> To cover the less visible costs (tire wear, insurance, depreciation, etc.) we can deduct 0.54 per mile. This gives me a mileage deduction of 939.06.


I believe it's $.545 this year...could be wrong.

But that is the total deductible cost of using your personal car for business if you use it. You can't also deduct gas, loan or lease payment, or any other vehicle expenses if you use that deduction.

Also, you can't deduct the mileage or any other costs on that long *commute* you have...unless you have the app on and are searching for rides the whole way.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> How much did I earn last week?
> 
> Simple question? Not when you have so many different ways to count. Let's look at last week to illustrate the point.
> 
> ...


I don't suppose $3000 of unforeseen mechanical repairs that have to be done immediately in order to continue driving would alter your analysis.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

You had me at $651 in 61.5 hrs with 1739 miles... :-/

Not worth it if you can’t gross closer to $1.00/mile.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

You really got me confused Karen. All this time I thought you were an Uber shill/planted account. But your high number is $15/hr, which is pathetic. How are you supposed to do the rah-rah for Uber with numbers like that? I have a new found respect for you. Hmmmm.

Meanwhile, I have been out for one hour today. Given one ride for $4.53. Have not bought gas or counted miles yet. Need an oil change this week. You are doing better than me, lol.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Mista T said:


> Have not bought gas or counted miles yet. Need an oil change this week.


I'm guessing your ride doesn't get the best Mpg either.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

1700 miles to get $650 is quite a bit of dead miles. I did $593 in 38 hours driving 1048 miles. That's $15/hour after "taxes," so estimate about $21/hour gross. It just consider Uber's service fee to be my "taxes." But yeah, that's how the tax accounting works. Last year after my deductions I still showed a small profit, but it was well below the level of having to pay any taxes.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

I think it's more entertaining that a couple of you think she is a guy. 

But Sweetie those dead miles are killing you. But you know that.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Over/Uber said:


> You had me at $651 in 61.5 hrs with 1739 miles... :-/
> 
> Not worth it if you can't gross closer to $1.00/mile.


At the $0.75 cents per mile I get paid for x rides in my market, how can you get to $1/ mile

Either you don't have any dead miles (all city driving) or you are doing xl or better paid rides or you really get tipped well


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Last week you earned 37.4 cents per mile. ($650 / 1,739mi).

Forget gas. What's your total operating cost per mile?

According to AAA, the average operating cost of a medium-size sedan driven @ 20,000 mi/yr is 49 cents per mile.

You're losing money no matter what your bank account might say this month. (If you drive a small sedan you just might be breaking even.)

I know it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking we're driving for much less than the standard operating cost of a vehicle.

But let's assume for a moment that you have a really efficient, low-maintenance, low-repair vehicle and you've got a lower than average operating cost of 25 cents per mile. That gives you a net earnings of about 12.4 cents per mile, or $215 for 61.5 hours of work. Do the math.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

No doubt about it - 150 dead miles per day, 3 dead hours, are quite the penalty.

Before Uber, in a regular job, the commuting miles and time were not considered in the pay rate. I might have been paid for 8 hours, but that didn't account for the 1-hour lunch or 3-hours commuting. I had to put in 12 hours of my day to get paid for those 8 hours. 

That's right - in my own circumstance, a long drive to work is a given.

I picked last week ' just because.' One fact of Uber is that your weekly totals will vary a LOT. The successful driver needs to plan for these swings.

My numbers are, well, my numbers. Real numbers. Not assumptions or platitudes. That's the only way we can answer the "how much does it pay" question.

Adjust my hour count for the commute and breaks, and I'm seeing earnings comparable to a regular job paying about $18/hr. 

Or, I could work at the McDonald's in my small, rural town and make half of that. I was offered an assistant manager job at the local feed store - for about $14/hr (salaried job).


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> Adjust my hour count for the commute and breaks, and I'm seeing earnings comparable to a regular job paying about $18/hr.


No. You're not. See my post above.

Not if you drove 1,739 miles last week.

Like many drivers, you're running your car into the ground and you don't even know it.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Running your car into the ground and Home ownership go hand in hand. Over 28 yrs, I've put an estimated 1.2 million miles on three Honda Accords. 33k a yr average. But the job was paying $42 an hour when they Laid us all off, Plant wide closure. So I retired cause I'm not moving to Everette, WA.

Now 38K avg in 3.5 yrs. @ 10-11 an hour ? Someone just shot me.


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> I had to put in 12 hours of my day to get paid for those 8 hours.
> 
> That's right - in my own circumstance, a long drive to work is a given.


I think you'd be better off taking the $14/hr manager job. A 3 hour daily commute is crazy unless you are making six figures. Not just the cost in gas killing you, but the time.

Either that or move to where the jobs are.

Here's my general calculation of earnings. Insurance, maintenance, and other costs are listed as "other expenses" based on a % of miles used for Uber vs Personal. I take it as a ballpark.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> This is ones of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a while. Next its going to be "lower rates equal more money". We already got that from uber and your grasp on accounting is poor at best.
> 
> By the way, you drove 1700 miles to make 650? You really suck at this.


At the rate they are going...

200,000 miles (a dead car) to make $60,000.

That's a straight up loss.

That's a complete death of the car in 3 years tops.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

oldfart said:


> At the $0.75 cents per mile I get paid for x rides in my market, how can you get to $1/ mile


You're in FL. I'm not.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Over/Uber said:


> You're in FL. I'm not.


I gotta get out of here


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

While some may not like the numbers I used, they're real numbers. Feel free to post your numbers.

I started this thread because it's important everyone - especially those who have only held paycheck jobs - understand what it means to have a business.

You can't make wise decisions without data. 

Just as important, you need to understand where those numbers originate.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> While some may not like the numbers I used, they're real numbers. Feel free to post your numbers.


No one in this thread has questioned your numbers. What's in question is your understanding of how much it costs to operate your vehicle. What's your estimated operating cost per mile? It better be a lot less than 37.4 cents.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

One's net income is their gross income less costs. 

The IRS isn't granting charity. The average new $32,000 car driven for 15,000 miles per year for five years will cost ~$0.55 per mile, on average. Some will cost more some will cost less. The IRS includes financing and insurance costs which an Uber driver may not have to include. Those costs would be there with or without rideshare. One exotic sports car I almost bought (lol) cost $17 per mile, including financing. Without knowing the type of car and what mileage it started at, we can't know your cost to drive.

Calculating cost can be complicated but it must be calculated to know the net income. Maintenance is easy. Look in the owner's manual for recommended service and apply a cost to that service. Depreciation can be estimated by kbb.com. Seems like most ignore repairs. But repairs are necessary. Edmunds True Cost to Own provides some data on expected repair costs. I think they include regular replacement items like tires, suspension part, etc., in addition to large repairs. If one has added insurance or bought a business license or any other costs associated with rideshare should be added too. There have been several studies, including one by Uber, that show the typical Uber car costs $0.32 per mile to operate. 

Assuming you didn't add insurance or licensing, driving 1738.9 miles at $0.32 per mile is a cost of $556.45. 

If one commutes, they should include that in their hourly rate. Assuming 2 hours at 50 mph and it costs $0.32 per mile, that's $32. If one could find a local job that paid $32 less per day, it would be a wash financially but one would gain 2 hours a day.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

having read all of this thread and other posts regarding how to figure out what you are really making with uber and lyft Ive come to the conclusion that it all depends on the individual and their individual situation and needs

For example here are three things that happened in my life at about the same time
1) I sold my business.. I generated some cash but lost my income... and I need some income
2) Without the business, i had nothing to do every day and no reason to get up in the morning.
3} my second car just sat on the driveway most of the time. I really dont need it so I had decided to sell it... It cost me $25000 I figured I could get $15000 for it. (at the rate Im spending money that $15000 would last me about 7 months)

enter uber

so far this year (I started this Christmas 2017) Ive driven that car 33000 miles and brought in $25000 less gas an oil, about $20000 Ive saved $10000 and spent $2000 a month So Im already ahead of where Id be if I had just sold the car My hope and expectation is that I can get another 18 months (100000 miles) without any major expenses, But If Im wrong I have the savings now to spend some money

I am looking at this as a business. Ive invested a $15000 car into that business and the cost to operate that business are gas and oil and that savings (reserves) account and the $2000 a month I pay the driver (me) When the car craps out, Ill have to decide whether of not to spend that savings on another car

The point Im trying to make is that we are all different and we all want something different out of our uber experience. I would never suggest that my cash flow approach is right for everyone but it works for me And I wont tell the op she is right or wrong to do what she is doing... unless of course she asks and even then Id want to know what she wants to have happen before I comment

Having said all that I will say the op has way too many dead miles.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)




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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> No doubt about it - 150 dead miles per day, 3 dead hours, are quite the penalty.
> 
> Before Uber, in a regular job, the commuting miles and time were not considered in the pay rate. I might have been paid for 8 hours, but that didn't account for the 1-hour lunch or 3-hours commuting. I had to put in 12 hours of my day to get paid for those 8 hours.
> 
> ...


You should sleep in your car every other night. Or pay for a cheap motel. The time you save will pay for the stay.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> I was offered an assistant manager job at the local feed store - for about $14/hr (salaried job).


Take it.
You'll like the people and love the commute, and $14/hour is almost double Missouri's 2018 minimum wage of $7.85.
Uber on the weekends for the thrills.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

oldfart said:


> The point Im trying to make is that we are all different and we all want something different out of our uber experience. I would never suggest that my cash flow approach is right for everyone but it works for me And I wont tell the op she is right or wrong to do what she is doing... unless of course she asks and even then Id want to know what she wants to have happen before I comment


That's a nice sentiment. But there's really only one right way to calculate earnings. We don't each get to figure out our own fanciful way to do it.  Many people here avoid doing it the right way because that can lead to some uncomfortable conclusions.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Coachman said:


> That's a nice sentiment. But there's really only one right way to calculate earnings. We don't each get to figure out our own fanciful way to do it. Many people here avoid doing it the right way because that can lead to some uncomfortable conclusions.


I guess thats right, only one way to count earnings. It's how to account for our individual expenses that varies.

One driver might see their car as an asset used to generate income and calculate return on investment another might see their car as an liability that they put money into each

Me. I put a 15000 car into my business at the first of this year. and I have earned 25900 so Now it's fully depreciated and I won't be counting depreciation as an expense item. You might handle depreciation differently

I count as expenses the increase in expenses due to rideshare. For example, my insurance cost is about $100 a month. It was $100 a month before rideshare so my insurance expense is 0

I always ate lunch before rideshare and I still eat lunch every day. So my lunch expense is 0

Some think dollars per hour is the impoetant metric, others not so much

Before rideshare I wasn't working and my bank account was getting smaller each month now my bank account getting a little bigger each month. That's the only metric I care about

There are as many ways to account for our rideshare income and expenses as there are drivers. To think you have the only right way and then not share it with us is just silly.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

oldfart said:


> I guess thats right, only one way to count earnings. It's how to account for our individual expenses that varies.
> 
> One driver might see their car as an asset used to generate income and calculate return on investment another might see their car as an liability that they put money into each
> 
> ...


Yes there are all kinds of creative accounting methods used by the pros that can show profits or losses for the same enterprise. I'd like to see the creative accounting system the OP used to get $15/hr on her $650 income.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Uber vs. Paycheck

Uber hours: Door-to-door. Include commute, breaks, etc. "Gross" hours.

Paycheck hours: "On the clock," minus breaks. "Net" hours.

So a 12-hour Uber day compares to an 8 hour regular job, if you have a long commute.

Uber pay: "Net," since we generally are not taxed on it.

Paycheck: "Gross," from which 1/4 is withheld for taxes.

Thus, an Uber dollar compares to 1.33 paycheck dollars, and an Uber hour compares to 0.7 time clock hours.

In my own personal situation, 40% of my Uber miles would be used commuting to a regular job. That's where the mileage allowance makes money for me- to the tune of $75/day.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I knew a guy that kept 3 sets of books for his business

1) for the irs that showed a loss
2) for his ex wife that showed a small income (of which half went to her)
3) for himself to help him decide what to sell and what to buy and how to operate his business

Be creative as you care to be but understand why you are keeping those books. And how you intend to use the results


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

You imply dishonest intent. That is not the case.

Rather, the point is to consider your assumptions. When folks ask "how's the pay, they're thinking in terms of a regular job. Frame your answer accordingly.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Dishonest intent is not what I’m suggesting, I’m just trying to point out that there might be different purposes

I am interested in cash flow. I don’t care that the car is being driven into the ground. I’m almost 72 years old. When the car goes I’ll stop working and begin spending my savings instead of being an Uber driver I’ll be an Uber rider

But when I do my taxes i use the 54.5 cent deduction which includes depreciation

Nothing dishonest about keeping those two sets of books 

My point is that one needs to understand why they are keeping the records to decide what records to keep


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

A mistake I see a lot of drivers making is underestimating their cost to drive. Fuel may be as low as 20% of the cost to drive.



Karen Stein said:


> Uber vs. Paycheck


First, an example of commuting vs not commuting.
Most jobs are in cities. Most people live in cities because that's where the jobs are located. Living outside a city may offer a better quality of life but requires a commute. Commutes cost time and money. If one commutes 150 miles a day (3 hours) and makes $20 an hour for 8 hours worth of work, they have the nearly the same effective after-tax hourly income as a local job at $13 an hour assuming a 20% tax rate for both.

If one is an Uber driver and makes the same 3 hour, 150 mile commute every day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and their gross is $23.50 an hour for 8 hours a day and drive an additional 200 miles during the 8 hour shift, and at the same 20% tax rate, their after tax income would be $10.375/hr.

At the end of the year all expenses and allowances accounted for (I think), a *$20 an hour commuting job is equivalent to a $13 an hour local job is equivalent to a $23.50 an hour commuting Uber gig is equivalent to a $17.90 an hour local Uber gig*.

Uber drivers have the added bonus of a flexible schedule and the driver could earn $1170 from other sources that would not be taxed due to the mileage allowance given by the IRS.

(math available upon request)


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm beginning to understand why uber is having no trouble finding drivers, the complete and total ignorance and contempt for accounting principals displayed in this thread is amazing!


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm beginning to understand why uber is having no trouble finding drivers, the complete and total ignorance and contempt for accounting principals displayed in this thread is amazing!


There's still a perception among the much of the public that UberX pays as much as $25-$30 an hour. I think a lot of people drive for a week and realize they aren't making anywhere near that. And that's not even accounting for expenses.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Coachman said:


> There's still a perception among the much of the public that UberX pays as much as $25-$30 an hour. I think a lot of people drive for a week and realize they aren't making anywhere near that. And that's not even accounting for expenses.


Sure, I get that from pax all the time. outs just sad though to see the two posters on this thread think they can do whatever they want with the numbers and that makes it true.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Sure, I get that from pax all the time. outs just sad though to see the two posters on this thread think they can do whatever they want with the numbers and that makes it true.


sad indeed///

why dont you share your method with us


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

oldfart said:


> why dont you share your method with us


I'd like to see them too.

If one decides to start a business, they may lease an office for a year at $1250 per month. That's not unusual at all. Its similar to starting an Uber business with a $15,000 car. The expense would be considered overhead instead of an operating cost. I think it is more complicated using a large overhead instead of operating costs but that doesn't make it any less valid.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Let's now look at last week from the tax perspective.


Actually no; let's not.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

oldfart said:


> sad indeed///
> 
> why dont you share your method with us


Why complicate things? Her "simple math" using income less expenses is pretty close to accurate. That suffices for the majority of us. I suppose some people have a reason to get creative. But for most of us this is basically a minimum wage job. On good days or good weeks it can be a little better. The long termers here generally have reasons other than making a lot of money for doing this.


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

Quick question...where does this "we don't pay taxes" thing come from?

Because according to my numbers uh yeah, I'm paying taxes on the income.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

I can't speak for your numbers, but ...

In MY case, driving full time, my adjusted income was less than my personal deduction, which made me exempt from paying any INCOME tax.

I did have to pay less than $500 in self-employment tax.

That's where the "essentially no taxes" comes from.

If you're driving in addition to having a "regular" job, not only are your Uber earnings tax exempt, but your extra business deductions are used to reduce your taxes from your paycheck job.


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> I can't speak for your numbers, but ...
> 
> In MY case, driving full time, my adjusted income was less than my personal deduction, which made me exempt from paying any INCOME tax.
> 
> ...


My situation is certainly different than yours, my rideshare income exceeds my deductions. However I do hope you are consulting a tax professional or CPA.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Few things are as boring as hearing some sanctimonious puffer fish spout his condenscension, assuming he's the only one with any knowledge.

Henry, if you were so damn smart you would have already known why I said what I said. Either you're not that smart, or you were just being rude, casually implying I was wrong.

For those who simply don't understand, I'll lay it out plain:
Uber driving is a business, not a job. That means the IRS has you fill out Schedule C. That form has a line where you can cover your car expenses.

One way to account for car costs is to use the miles you drove and a multiplier they provide. You subtract this figure from your income, then pay taxes on the rest.

If you earn $30 by driving 100 miles, you "lose" money - in tax terms. With the multiplier (currently) at 0.545, driving 100 miles gives a deduction of $54.50. You need to earn that much to break even.


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)




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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Few things are as boring as hearing some sanctimonious puffer fish spout his condenscension, assuming he's the only one with any knowledge.
> 
> Henry, if you were so damn smart you would have already known why I said what I said. Either you're not that smart, or you were just being rude, casually implying I was wrong.
> 
> ...


I think the point the previous poster was making is that he makes more than 54.5 cents per mile.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

If so, he should remove the snide remark about his "hope" I'm getting competent advice.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Karen Stein said:


> No doubt about it - 150 dead miles per day, 3 dead hours, are quite the penalty.
> 
> Before Uber, in a regular job, the commuting miles and time were not considered in the pay rate. I might have been paid for 8 hours, but that didn't account for the 1-hour lunch or 3-hours commuting. I had to put in 12 hours of my day to get paid for those 8 hours.
> 
> ...


You should have taken that job.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

oldfart said:


> I guess thats right, only one way to count earnings. It's how to account for our individual expenses that varies.
> 
> One driver might see their car as an asset used to generate income and calculate return on investment another might see their car as an liability that they put money into each
> 
> ...


Since Your Insurance hasn't gone up, I'm assuming you never bought rideshare Insurance. So now you need to deduct whatever any accidents you get into because your personal insurance is voided


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> I can't speak for your numbers, but ...
> 
> In MY case, driving full time, my adjusted income was less than my personal deduction, which made me exempt from paying any INCOME tax.
> 
> ...


Your earnings are not tax exempt. After three years, you can't deduct your expenses, either


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Rat said:


> Since Your Insurance hasn't gone up, I'm assuming you never bought rideshare Insurance. So now you need to deduct whatever any accidents you get into because your personal insurance is voided


I don't have to deduct anything until the the accident happens. You may have missed my earlier post where I said I don't budget for repairs. I maintain a small savings account for repairs or to replace the car when needed


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

oldfart said:


> I don't have to deduct anything until the the accident happens. You may have missed my earlier post where I said I don't budget for repairs. I maintain a small savings account for repairs or to replace the car when needed


 You asked me to explain how costs are accounted for and I simply don't have the energy, it's been covered some many times before. You may not care, you may be fine making a few bucks extra cash and that's all well and good, your personal choice. BUT, every time toy take your car our and our miles on the car, you are incurring a cost for gas, deferred maintenance, and diminished value of entree car. Maintaining your small savings account to cover repairs and replacing the car is an expense, it's just a different name for depreciation and maintenance and counts towards your cost per mile.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> You asked me to explain how costs are accounted for and I simply don't have the energy, it's been covered some many times before. You may not care, you may be fine making a few bucks extra cash and that's all well and good, your personal choice. BUT, every time toy take your car our and our miles on the car, you are incurring a cost for gas, deferred maintenance, and diminished value of entree car. Maintaining your small savings account to cover repairs and replacing the car is an expense, it's just a different name for depreciation and maintenance and counts towards your cost per mile.


I agree completely: "every time toy (you?) take your car our and our (put)?) miles on the car, you are incurring a cost for gas, deferred maintenance, and diminished value of entree (entire?) car" .and it is what Ive been trying to say...

Where we differ is how we account for those expenses depreciation etc . I dont consider an expense an expense until I incur them. I add money each month to that bank account. I understand I have potential expenses, but no real expense yet. If Im lucky Ill retire the car before I have an accident or need to do a major repair.

Im a KISS (keep it simple stupid) kind of guy.. My accounting is done on a cash flow basis (money in and money out)

I put a $25000 car into my business, The way I look at it is I didnt make a penny until I paid for that car (put $25000 into savings) My business now has two assets 1) the car, and 2) $25000 in cash , and every month I have two expense items 1) gas and oil and $2000 I pay my driver everything else goes into that savings account

I guess thats something else we see differently. I see the money I pay my driver as a business expense, you see that money as profit..


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

oldfart said:


> I don't have to deduct anything until the the accident happens. You may have missed my earlier post where I said I don't budget for repairs. I maintain a small savings account for repairs or to replace the car when needed


Repairs? Try totaling a couple of cars. Hundreds of thousands in medical costs. Irresponsible people like you should have your license revoked and your cars confiscated


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Rat said:


> Repairs? Try totaling a couple of cars. Hundreds of thousands in medical costs. Irresponsible people like you should have your license revoked and your cars confiscated


Is don't understand your point or you don't understand mine

I understand the need for insurance and that insurance is an expense item. And you are right if you assume that I don't buy rideshare or commercial insurance. I depend on Uber and Lyft.

But the cost to replace a totaled car and to compensate someone for my negligence isn't an expense until it happens

I fail to see why my license should be revoked because I account for my earnings differently than you might And I wonder, do you claim as an expense the cost of an accident that hasn't yet happened? If so I'd like to meet your accountant


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Is don't understand your point or you don't understand mine
> 
> I understand the need for insurance and that insurance is an expense item. And you are right if you assume that I don't buy rideshare or commercial insurance. I depend on Uber and Lyft.
> 
> ...


You are unable to meet the financial requirements to drive a vehicle. This is why you are not driving legally.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Rat said:


> You are unable to meet the financial requirements to drive a vehicle. This is why you are not driving legally.


you have lost me..


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

As a simple reader, few things turn me off quicker than a quick recourse to mudslinging.

Just because someone has a different opinion, or rates priorities differently, you shouldn't become the "Old Faithful" of invective.

Nor do I understand this need some have to be the smartest guy in the room.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

>>>>Henrygates says You'll also have issues if you keep filing at a loss.


True...After 3 years of showing a loss the IRS calls it a hobby


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