# Don't take surge rides !



## MyJessicaLS430

The flat surge finally hits the Houston market. Uber only pays $2.75 extra for the 25-mile Select trip to the airport.










I would have been screwed if it was a X trip.
$0.6/mile X 25.14 = $15.08
$0.12/min X 61.4 = $7.37
Base fare = $0.75
Surge = $2.75
*X trip TOTAL >>> $25.95*

Not to mention another 25 miles driving empty unless you want to put faith in this:









A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?

Here is a tip for new drivers in Houston to avoid airport trips which can never be lucrative - Hit "Decline" when you see the "45 min+ notification". There are A LOT of airport requests in the late afternoon.


----------



## 1.5xorbust

Yes.


----------



## losiglow

I was under the impression that Select didn't get surge. At least I never have. I've probably only given 50 select rides out of the 5000 rides I've given but I've never gotten surge with it.

On that note, I rarely chase surge. If I know it's surging for a particular reason, such as last call at the bars or a concert ending or something I'll head over. But if it's just random - never. 90% of the time when it's random, the surge ends by the time I get there.


----------



## Merc7186

What is Select???


----------



## losiglow

https://www.uber.com/ride/uberselect/










It's nothing too special. Entry level luxury cars, some nicer SUV's, stuff like that. My TL qualifies. Has to have leather, a certain amount of room in the backseat and the driver has to have a little higher rating. In Utah it's a minimum of 4.85. Most of the Select rides I get are businesspeople with clients where they'd like ride in a little bit nicer vehicle rather than stuff in the back of a Prius or Nissan Versa. As well as some people going out on date nights. But I probably only give 1 Select for every 50 UberX rides.


----------



## Merc7186

Called Sarcasm.

Welcome to the UP.N


----------



## losiglow

Ah, I'm a little slow on the uptake apparently.


----------



## JimKE

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?


No. That is the amount of surge available in that area. As you drive to/thru a surge area, the amount pertaining to your next trip shows at the bottom of your home screen. What is shown there is the minimum you will be paid on your next trip -- but you might be paid more for a long trip.

For example, yesterday I approached MIA which was showing a $7 surge, but on the bottom of my screen, it showed only $2...with the instruction to drive to the waiting lot. As soon as I got to the waiting lot, the minimum surge for my next ride changed to $7.

However...the ride I got was 34+ miles and I got more than $7 surge, as shown above.


----------



## Cableguynoe

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> The flat surge finally hits the Houston market. Uber only pays $2.75 extra for the 25-mile Select trip to the airport.
> 
> View attachment 279620
> 
> 
> I would have been screwed if it was a X trip.
> $0.6/mile X 25.14 = $15.08
> $0.12/min X 61.4 = $7.37
> Base fare = $0.75
> Surge = $2.75
> *X trip TOTAL >>> $25.95*
> 
> Not to mention another 25 miles driving empty unless you want to put faith in this:
> View attachment 279621
> 
> 
> A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?
> 
> Here is a tip for new drivers in Houston to avoid airport trips which can never be lucrative - Hit "Decline" when you see the "45 min+ notification". There are A LOT of airport requests in the late afternoon.


what did rider pay on this?


----------



## Rushmanyyz

You should be getting more surges with the scheme. I'd bet the, if you honestly did a statistical analysis, you'd see it was about the same. You'll gave less of those ridiculous outliers but that's just scam pricing that keeps riders from riding again. 

I always roll my eyes at nonsense anecdotes like this.


----------



## mrpjfresh

JimKE said:


> View attachment 279638
> 
> However...the ride I got was 34+ miles and I got more than $7 surge, as shown above.


Interesting. I suppose this is to avoid the "blackeye" scenario in which Uber's cut of the ride exceeds 80% as happened in Charlotte when this was introduced. Like someone on a $2 surge getting a rider going 20-30 miles on a sizable multiplier. What was Uber's percentage on this adjusted ride if you don't mind?


----------



## steveK2016

I have a running theory on this. Because of how the surge applies to pickups outside of the surge zone and sticks with the driver post surge, you dont get extra for longer trips. So before, youd made nothing extra but now you get a small bonus. If the ride actually was in a surge zone where the pax is charged surge, you get more on longer trips.


----------



## CTK

steveK2016 said:


> I have a running theory on this. Because of how the surge applies to pickups outside of the surge zone and sticks with the driver post surge, you dont get extra for longer trips. So before, youd made nothing extra but now you get a small bonus. If the ride actually was in a surge zone where the pax is charged surge, you get more on longer trips.


^^^^ this.


----------



## Peterjay303

JimKE said:


> View attachment 279638
> No. That is the amount of surge available in that area. As you drive to/thru a surge area, the amount pertaining to your next trip shows at the bottom of your home screen. What is shown there is the minimum you will be paid on your next trip -- but you might be paid more for a long trip.
> 
> For example, yesterday I approached MIA which was showing a $7 surge, but on the bottom of my screen, it showed only $2...with the instruction to drive to the waiting lot. As soon as I got to the waiting lot, the minimum surge for my next ride changed to $7.
> 
> However...the ride I got was 34+ miles and I got more than $7 surge, as shown above.


I'm curious what did pax pay for that ride?


----------



## JimKE

Peterjay303 said:


> I'm curious what did pax pay for that ride?


Rider paid $81.07. Rider also gave me a $20 cash tip.


----------



## Kleine Kaiser

Merc7186 said:


> What is Select???
> View attachment 279631


If you have to ask you can't afford it buddy.


----------



## Pax Collector

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?


Not necessarily.

The new surge is elastic. That means, if the trip exceeds a certain distance (Only the Uber Gods know that number), then they'll adjust the surge amount accordingly. It all depends on how much they've charged the rider for that particular trip.

Let's assume it's busy and a rider got charged $100. The driver sees a $10 surge on the map and it's a long trip. In most cases, the driver would get around 50-60% of the fare with $20-30 of it being adjusted "Surge". They do this not to appear to be taking a huge chunk of the fare (@mrpjfresh nailed that scenario). On short trips, however, all the driver gets is that fixed amount. So, bottomline is there is no way of telling how much you'll make on a surged trip until it's completed and even then, you won't know how your fare was calculated.


----------



## iheartuber

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> The flat surge finally hits the Houston market. Uber only pays $2.75 extra for the 25-mile Select trip to the airport.
> 
> View attachment 279620
> 
> 
> I would have been screwed if it was a X trip.
> $0.6/mile X 25.14 = $15.08
> $0.12/min X 61.4 = $7.37
> Base fare = $0.75
> Surge = $2.75
> *X trip TOTAL >>> $25.95*
> 
> Not to mention another 25 miles driving empty unless you want to put faith in this:
> View attachment 279621
> 
> 
> A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?
> 
> Here is a tip for new drivers in Houston to avoid airport trips which can never be lucrative - Hit "Decline" when you see the "45 min+ notification":smiles:. There are A LOT of airport requests in the late afternoon.


This screws us on long rides for sure but we will clean up on shorties.

$4 shorty + $2.75 surge = $6.75

If this was a multiplier that would be like 1.7x to get $6.75 payout

It remains to be seen if after calculating everything this will be a good or bad thing


----------



## AlteredBeast

Has been a significant amount of surge in Omaha for the last 2 weeks with all the snow in concerts we've had. I am going to monitor how the flat surge compares to the old surge and see how much Uber is taking versus how much they were taking, how much I was making average per ride and what difference there is short vs. Long rides. 

I don't see anybody else doing a deep dive on the data on this, only a lot of complaints. And since everybody complains about everything on here, and obviously a lot of people have no idea what the hell they're doing, I'm not going to take all the complaints about flat surge at face value. LOL


----------



## FLKeys

AlteredBeast said:


> Has been a significant amount of surge in Omaha for the last 2 weeks with all the snow in concerts we've had. I am going to monitor how the flat surge compares to the old surge and see how much Uber is taking versus how much they were taking, how much I was making average per ride and what difference there is short vs. Long rides.
> 
> I don't see anybody else doing a deep dive on the data on this, only a lot of complaints. And since everybody complains about everything on here, and obviously a lot of people have no idea what the hell they're doing, I'm not going to take all the complaints about flat surge at face value. LOL


I flagged the few trips I have had with a surge, so when the flat rate surge does start here I will be able to do a comparison as well. Won't be much of a comparison since surge rides are rare in my area.

Looked back over my records I have had 10 Surge trips out of the 833 trips I have done a whopping 1.2%. Highest Surge was 2.0X lowest was 1.3X. From those 10 trips I have earned $50.01 in Surge earnings with an average of $5.00 per trip and the median was Surge earning was $4.21.


----------



## Diamondraider

steveK2016 said:


> I have a running theory on this. Because of how the surge applies to pickups outside of the surge zone and sticks with the driver post surge, you dont get extra for longer trips. So before, youd made nothing extra but now you get a small bonus. If the ride actually was in a surge zone where the pax is charged surge, you get more on longer trips.


Any trip, not just longer trips


----------



## Lythium

losiglow said:


> https://www.uber.com/ride/uberselect/
> 
> View attachment 279632
> 
> 
> It's nothing too special. Entry level luxury cars, some nicer SUV's, stuff like that. My TL qualifies. Has to have leather, a certain amount of room in the backseat and the driver has to have a little higher rating. In Utah it's a minimum of 4.85. Most of the Select rides I get are businesspeople with clients where they'd like ride in a little bit nicer vehicle rather than stuff in the back of a Prius or Nissan Versa. As well as some people going out on date nights. But I probably only give 1 Select for every 50 UberX rides.


I find in my market (that doesn't offer Select) people reserve XL to try and get a better ride, but even XL capacity vehicles can be junk so that's not always a safe bet. I like the idea of Select, but I'm surprised that they would implement it based their initial aversion to tipping on the basis that it created inequality. Is their capitalist greed finally wearing them down?


----------



## MyJessicaLS430

Pax Collector said:


> The new surge is elastic. That means, if the trip exceeds a certain distance (Only the Uber Gods know that number), then they'll adjust the surge amount accordingly. It all depends on how much they've charged the rider for that particular trip.


My experience is that trips that are of airport origin are always paid in addition to the flat surge regardless of distance (usual surge at the Hobby Airport is about $4-6). Every Saturday after leaving my friend's house, it is almost guaranteed to earn $20 for a drop-off that is ~10 miles away from Hobby. The best part? No waiting in the TNC lot required!

However, I cannot observe any pattern from taking surge rides under DF. Unbelievably, an "adjustment" was once applied to a 3-mile trip! Needless to say, my share is only a child's play compared with what the passenger actually pays.

For one aspect that I am certain is that if the surge cloud starts to fade, Uber pays whatever the minimum surge is and no longer takes the lionshare (sometimes Uber's share can be negative).

Somehow the new surge model is not too bad but this statement is made based on the assumption in taking trips with active DF.


----------



## PlayLoud

So, as I understand it, there are different situations.

*$4.50 sticky surge - Ping from non-surge area. Rider not paying surge.*
Driver gets $4.50 extra, period.

*$4.50 actual surge - Rider pays whatever surge multiplier they attach to a $4.50 surge.*
Driver gets $4.50 extra on short rides. Longer rides may be adjusted so the driver takes a significant share of the fare.

*$10 sticky surge - Rider is in a lower surge area (let's say $1.50), and paying low multiplier*
Driver probably only gets the $10 extra. If the drive was REALLY long, he/she may get an adjustment, but the higher sticky surge will probably cover enough of the fare to not get an adjustment on all but the longest rides.

This is how I understand it anyway, and seems to be what is happening from my experience. The problem is if you already have a sticky surge when the ping arrives, you don't know if the rider is paying surge until the ride is over and you check the trip. The only way you would know before taking the ride is if you DON'T have sticky surge, and you get a ping with a surge amount on it (or the surge amount is higher than your current sticky). THAT would be a real surge, where a long trip should get you an adjustment.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

AlteredBeast said:


> Has been a significant amount of surge in Omaha for the last 2 weeks with all the snow in concerts we've had. I am going to monitor how the flat surge compares to the old surge and see how much Uber is taking versus how much they were taking, how much I was making average per ride and what difference there is short vs. Long rides.
> 
> I don't see anybody else doing a deep dive on the data on this, only a lot of complaints. And since everybody complains about everything on here, and obviously a lot of people have no idea what the hell they're doing, I'm not going to take all the complaints about flat surge at face value. LOL


Many people have done deep dives on this. Overall it's a pay cut. You get a few extra dollars in short rides, then lose $30 on a long one. It doesn't even out.


----------



## AlteredBeast

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Many people have done deep dives on this. Overall it's a pay cut. You get a few extra dollars in short rides, then lose $30 on a long one. It doesn't even out.


I don't doubt that it will be the case, but I haven't seen a ride-by-ride analysis anywhere, comparing ride prices and earnings, etc.

Any posts out there that break this all down in a clinical way?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

PlayLoud said:


> So, as I understand it, there are different situations.
> 
> *$4.50 sticky surge - Ping from non-surge area. Rider not paying surge.*
> Driver gets $4.50 extra, period.
> 
> *$4.50 actual surge - Rider pays whatever surge multiplier they attach to a $4.50 surge.*
> Driver gets $4.50 extra on short rides. Longer rides may be adjusted so the driver takes a significant share of the fare.
> 
> *$10 sticky surge - Rider is in a lower surge area (let's say $1.50), and paying low multiplier*
> Driver probably only gets the $10 extra. If the drive was REALLY long, he/she may get an adjustment, but the higher sticky surge will probably cover enough of the fare to not get an adjustment on all but the longest rides.
> 
> This is how I understand it anyway, and seems to be what is happening from my experience. The problem is if you already have a sticky surge when the ping arrives, you don't know if the rider is paying surge until the ride is over and you check the trip. The only way you would know before taking the ride is if you DON'T have sticky surge, and you get a ping with a surge amount on it (or the surge amount is higher than your current sticky). THAT would be a real surge, where a long trip should get you an adjustment.


The problem is that the pax will pay say a 3x and your "significant portion" ends up being 1.7 or 2x. So on a long trip you get more than the extra promised, but nowhere near as much as if you'd been paid under the old system.

I've also monitored our dollar added amount vs rider surge (by rider app) and they don't even line up. We may get $10 but it's saying 2.5x. Then we say $7 but it's 3.5x for the rider. I think uber sticks up a higher amount to get the drivers there, then increases the pax surge as they decrease ours. This seems to happen a lot at events where the pax is expecting and willing to pay surge. Uber will lose on some of the short trips but then make a lot more on the long ones.

You CAN get a portion on trips that don't even say there's a dollar amount added, but it's not common. It's also not usually much. I got an extra 38 cents on a short trip where the pax paid $8.64. I got $2.82. Without surge my minimum here is $2.44. Minimum for pax is I think $5.95. So they paid close to $3 more and I got my "significant portion" 15%? of that. FYI the rider app showed no surge and they knew it shouldn't cost that much (the note about higher prices because it's busy" was not showing for them--we discussed it). This was a well off area and I guess uber figured they'd pay it. Which they did.



AlteredBeast said:


> I don't doubt that it will be the case, but I haven't seen a ride-by-ride analysis anywhere, comparing ride prices and earnings, etc.
> 
> Any posts out there that break this all down in a clinical way?


Yes. I'm at lunch at work so can't hunt them down, but yes. One person even posted a spreadsheet to download and check your own trips.


----------



## _justjosh

I just recently did a deep dive on my weekends surge that was occurring. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a set dollar amount that correlates to the multiplier that the rider is paying. 

That lends credence to the theory that uber raises dollar amount to get drivers in a location, and then gouges the rider with a higher multiplier. 

I've figured out a formula for to get what multiplier the rider was paying and then calculate what surge you should have been paid under old system.

Basically for whatever location you are in you take the base rate, and booking fee add those to the time and distance based on the base rates of each in your area and divide that total into what the rider paid total. That should give you the multiplier they paid.

Take that multiplier and multiply each your base ,time, and distance not including the flat surge uber gave, and you will get what fare you should have received.


----------



## Juggalo9er

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> The flat surge finally hits the Houston market. Uber only pays $2.75 extra for the 25-mile Select trip to the airport.
> 
> View attachment 279620
> 
> 
> I would have been screwed if it was a X trip.
> $0.6/mile X 25.14 = $15.08
> $0.12/min X 61.4 = $7.37
> Base fare = $0.75
> Surge = $2.75
> *X trip TOTAL >>> $25.95*
> 
> Not to mention another 25 miles driving empty unless you want to put faith in this:
> View attachment 279621
> 
> 
> A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?
> 
> Here is a tip for new drivers in Houston to avoid airport trips which can never be lucrative - Hit "Decline" when you see the "45 min+ notification":smiles:. There are A LOT of airport requests in the late afternoon.


Tier Three support:
Please understand that as a company Uber is passing on a substantial portion of the surge onto the driver. A 2x surge is roughly equal to $5, so on a long trip we may increase it to $7.50.


----------



## jgiun1

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> The flat surge finally hits the Houston market. Uber only pays $2.75 extra for the 25-mile Select trip to the airport.
> 
> View attachment 279620
> 
> 
> I would have been screwed if it was a X trip.
> $0.6/mile X 25.14 = $15.08
> $0.12/min X 61.4 = $7.37
> Base fare = $0.75
> Surge = $2.75
> *X trip TOTAL >>> $25.95*
> 
> Not to mention another 25 miles driving empty unless you want to put faith in this:
> View attachment 279621
> 
> 
> A question for the pros - Does that mean you will only get what the number was indicated on the app regardless of trip distance?
> 
> Here is a tip for new drivers in Houston to avoid airport trips which can never be lucrative - Hit "Decline" when you see the "45 min+ notification":smiles:. There are A LOT of airport requests in the late afternoon.


There is no working the system or even knowing a thing about what you'll earn now....sometimes dollar is dollar, 6 is 10, 8 is 25.....lol.....you'll really know it's over when after flat rates launch, they start the Zones months later. You'll start getting 3 rides for $5 dollar's like lyfts old power zones.

Uber needs drivers here big time and still are using the surge surpress 3 for $5 dollar crap....they would rather bite the bullet and not give a ride than pay driver increased old rates....trust me, It sucks and why I haven't given a drunk a ride in months (that'll include big Saturday coming up)


----------



## Trafficat

steveK2016 said:


> I have a running theory on this. Because of how the surge applies to pickups outside of the surge zone and sticks with the driver post surge, you dont get extra for longer trips. So before, youd made nothing extra but now you get a small bonus. If the ride actually was in a surge zone where the pax is charged surge, you get more on longer trips.


It needs to show the driver the surge though. It provides no incentive to give a surprise "significant portion of the rider surge" if you have no idea it is coming until after the trip. As a matter of practice, if there is flat surge going on, I hit _ignore_ for all 45+ minute trips because I figure they'll take me out of the area for only a few extra dollars and I'd possibly miss out on several $3-5 flat surges. If the 45+ minute trip would say 1.5x + $3 surge, I'd take it. but not just when advertised as $3 surge.


----------



## West Fargo

We have so many drivers in Fargo, ND that if all the drivers that are out on ANY given day or night, it would never surge again. I asked uber or the call center to explain how they calculated this new surge because on most rides that show $3, that's all I get but On a couple of other surge calls and 1 in particular gave me even more. We had surge rates from $10 to $13 for most of the nite last week because of a snow storm. I caught 1 ride at $13. What I received was $37 for the surge and $14 of the normal fee. Uber made roughly $30. The call center could not or would not tell me why this happens from time to time. I should of only received $27 if you go with what they are paying me on $3 surge rides. Also uber is making almost, if not more on some rides than I am. Even if I'm carrying a $3 minimum surge onward to the next request some terd driver 8 miles away and for whatever reason declines the ride i seem to be given the ride and in turn lose my $3 because there is no way in hell I'm driving all that way to take someone 8 blocks.

I'm another one that thinks my time of driving is coming to an end, way way too many drivers and the prospects of making good money on longer rides are gone.


----------



## hanging in there

AlteredBeast said:


> I don't doubt that it will be the case, but I haven't seen a ride-by-ride analysis anywhere, comparing ride prices and earnings, etc.
> 
> Any posts out there that break this all down in a clinical way?


The above ride example is a good one.

Driver got $45 (not including tip) on an $81 ride, even AFTER the added surge adjustment for a longer trip.

So in this case, Uber got a 45% cut, almost or more than double the old 20% or 25% cuts. Of course that is not all due to the flat surge scam but also partly due to the upfront pricing scam.


----------



## AlteredBeast

hanging in there said:


> The above ride example is a good one.
> 
> Driver got $45 (not including tip) on an $81 ride, even AFTER the added surge adjustment for a longer trip.
> 
> So in this case, Uber got a 45% cut, almost or more than double the old 20% or 25% cuts. Of course that is not all due to the flat surge scam but also partly due to the upfront pricing scam.


Since that post I have Quantified the amount that Uber takes per ride. They do indeed very between 10% and 40% on many rides. Lift on the other hand rarely ever goes above 25%. But, since the amount per mile and per minute are the same, I get paid the same either way. Also, since Lyft rarely surges in Omaha and Uber surges pretty consistently during busy times oh, it's still better to take a flat surge then no surge at all.


----------



## West Fargo

I had a $6.75 surge "next call" payment in the wait. It took me an hour and 3 other drivers who were within 1 mile of the caller but denied it but I finally got the request. After finishing the ride I looked and of course NO $6.75 addition. 

I was in the surge zone and I hadn't denied any requests or shut off to negate the payment. Most of the time I end up losing the payment because our drivers up here cherry pick their asses off and I lose it because I wont drive 8 miles just to get $3 extra dollars. Just another reason Fargo sux. 

We have a butt load of drivers here that threaten to put people on the street because they made a mistake on how far the ride is and they wont do it and have the beans enough to tell them not to rate them bad because this is their main source if scamming people. 

Some of the cars are just crazy, they still have the wax lettering from a salvage yard on them and bumpers held up literally with pink duck tape.

Made close to $50 from 11:30 PM to 3:30am and that's with $20 in surge payments and $6 in tips. I also had 2 no shows at $3.75 in that total. Both of those I'm pretty sure cancelled because they had a $4 surge on them that I didnt get because of the canx. That is another issue, they should have to make good on the surge charge as well.

It used to be at least tolerable but now I mainly get shadowed by 2 or 3 drivers every nite when I park somewhere to wait for a ride. Its nothing now to wait 45 min to an hour for a call unless you want the scraps the other drivers throw away 10 miles out.

This blows, I really liked doing this gig. Just shy of 6,000 rides in 2.3 years and a 4.92 rating and all I see is it gets worse every year.


----------



## hanging in there

AlteredBeast said:


> Since that post I have Quantified the amount that Uber takes per ride. They do indeed very between 10% and 40% on many rides. Lift on the other hand rarely ever goes above 25%. But, since the amount per mile and per minute are the same, I get paid the same either way. Also, since Lyft rarely surges in Omaha and Uber surges pretty consistently during busy times oh, it's still better to take a flat surge then no surge at all.


The point is, with the flat surge scheme, Uber is now pocketing the lion's share of the surge for themselves and throwing little scraps to the drivers.


----------



## Uber_Dubler

Rushmanyyz said:


> You should be getting more surges with the scheme. I'd bet the, if you honestly did a statistical analysis, you'd see it was about the same. You'll gave less of those ridiculous outliers but that's just scam pricing that keeps riders from riding again.
> 
> I always roll my eyes at nonsense anecdotes like this.


"Yes, you will get more surges ... but they just won't "stick". So its more eye candy from Uber when they can display, "$4.00 Minimum Surge Next Trip" on your screen. That does not mean you will get $4.00 on your next trip. It only applies if you are in the surge area. No surge, no additional $4.00. If been in surge areas, surge area goes away, no $4 on the next trip. Log off the app, no $4 on the next trip. Decline 3x rides in a row, Uber auto-logs you off and no $4 on the next trip. Took a Lyft trip and missed 3x Uber offers, auto-log off and no $4 extra even if you were in a surge area.

My experience, and most who have posted here after their driving areas went from surge multiplier to flat rate surge (or as Uber calls it, Version 2 surge) drivers have lost money compared to the flat rate surge.

A couple examples of Uber being less than honest with how the flat rate surge will impact drivers....

1)


Fuzzyelvis said:


> Many people have done deep dives on this. Overall it's a pay cut. You get a few extra dollars in short rides, then lose $30 on a long one. It doesn't even out.


What !!! I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Drivers end up being paid less? I'm shocked.


----------



## AlteredBeast

hanging in there said:


> The point is, with the flat surge scheme, Uber is now pocketing the lion's share of the surge for themselves and throwing little scraps to the drivers.


That's not entirely accurate. Based on hundreds of rides that I have crunched both before and after the switch to flat surge, the amount kept by Uber _on average_ is lower now than it was when surge was based on a multiplier. There are outlier rides, of course, but then again, there were outlier rides on the old surge, too.

I believe this is a case of confirmation bias, and not actually crunching the numbers for yourself.


----------



## FLKeys

AlteredBeast said:


> Since that post I have Quantified the amount that Uber takes per ride. They do indeed very between 10% and 40% on many rides. Lift on the other hand rarely ever goes above 25%. But, since the amount per mile and per minute are the same, I get paid the same either way. Also, since Lyft rarely surges in Omaha and Uber surges pretty consistently during busy times oh, it's still better to take a flat surge then no surge at all.


I track every ride in a spreadsheet for 2018 im my market Uber's take averaged 40% and Lyft's take averaged 35%. Do not include tips in the total PAX paid for your calculations as the fees are not based on the tipped portion.


----------



## AlteredBeast

FLKeys said:


> I track every ride in a spreadsheet for 2018 im my market Uber's take averaged 40% and Lyft's take averaged 35%. Do not include tips in the total PAX paid for your calculations as the fees are not based on the tipped portion.


Are you subtracting the service fee/booking fee before making those calculations? That would be extremely high on average.

I don't think you can count that 2.55 or 2.80 for Uber if you are doing so. Those fees are used to pay both their and your taxes and fees that localities charge you to run a cab-like service out of your car. If they didn't collect it for you, you would be forced to pay that yourself each month or year or whatever.


----------



## May H.

Pax Collector said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> The new surge is elastic. That means, if the trip exceeds a certain distance (Only the Uber Gods know that number), then they'll adjust the surge amount accordingly. It all depends on how much they've charged the rider for that particular trip.
> 
> Let's assume it's busy and a rider got charged $100. The driver sees a $10 surge on the map and it's a long trip. In most cases, the driver would get around 50-60% of the fare with $20-30 of it being adjusted "Surge". They do this not to appear to be taking a huge chunk of the fare (@mrpjfresh nailed that scenario). On short trips, however, all the driver gets is that fixed amount. So, bottomline is there is no way of telling how much you'll make on a surged trip until it's completed and even then, you won't know how your fare was calculated.


Yes, surge is not always adjusted on long trips. Yesterday I had a $6.75 surge and got an airport trip of 34 miles. When the trip ended the payment seemed low so when I checked I was only paid for 24 miles and the map drew the trip in a straight line! Had to call support to have the mileage pay adjusted and surge was not adjusted. I looked at the Uber payment THEY LOST MONEY ON THIS TRIP. Seems intentional, the Uber app shut off briefly mid-trip while I was following Google maps. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, now I'm scrutinizing the details of every trip.


----------



## Atlwarrior

Uber is pocketing the old multiplier Surge rate, while giving drivers some extra dollars. I just don’t see who this is not fraud.


----------



## MusicMan03

We all must merely adjust. Uber's platform, so they get to set the terms. If we don't like them, we don't have to play by those rules

If a lot of drivers adjust to not driving the hours of Max surge, it'll affect rider experience. Enough riders complain, and Uber will be faced with a choice. Probably decide to re-incentive drivers again

Then drivers can adjust again


----------



## FLKeys

AlteredBeast said:


> Are you subtracting the service fee/booking fee before making those calculations? That would be extremely high on average.
> 
> I don't think you can count that 2.55 or 2.80 for Uber if you are doing so. Those fees are used to pay both their and your taxes and fees that localities charge you to run a cab-like service out of your car. If they didn't collect it for you, you would be forced to pay that yourself each month or year or whatever.


My calculation includes what the passenger paid less tips and what Uber fees are. I'm simply interested in that figure only. Plus with the newest app update the Fare Details screen no longer shows the details of the total they received and they also don't show the tip amount separate of what the rider pays like they used to. This actually concerns me to why they no longer want us to see these details.



Atlwarrior said:


> Uber is pocketing the old multiplier Surge rate, while giving drivers some extra dollars. I just don't see who this is not fraud.


I'm not denying this or saying you are wrong, I just have not seen it with my rides that have surge pay. I do't have enough surge rides to say it for definite as surge rides are few and far between in my area. However so far with the flat rate surge I am benefiting. Again markets are different. In my market the surge is working the same with flat rate over muliplier in the fact that a surge appears, and then 10-15 seconds before a ride request comes through the surge disappears. Under the multiplier I would not get anything for that ride that just came in. Under the flat rate surge at least I am getting the stuck amount. On every trip that I have got the stuck sticky amount the amount the rider paid is comparable to the amount a rider would have paid for that trip without a surge in place. I only received one ping so far with a surge stuck on my screen while the screen still showed a surge zone. That pax paid what a normal ride would have cost and I got the stuck $3.00 flat rate surge. I'll keep monitoring it and report any changes to this pattern.


----------



## Juggalo9er

AlteredBeast said:


> That's not entirely accurate. Based on hundreds of rides that I have crunched both before and after the switch to flat surge, the amount kept by Uber _on average_ is lower now than it was when surge was based on a multiplier. There are outlier rides, of course, but then again, there were outlier rides on the old surge, too.
> 
> I believe this is a case of confirmation bias, and not actually crunching the numbers for yourself.


I don't think you know what you're talking about


----------



## AlteredBeast

Juggalo9er said:


> I don't think you know what you're talking about
> View attachment 305726


I don't think you know what "on average" means.


----------



## Juggalo9er

AlteredBeast said:


> I don't think you know what "on average" means.


Every surge ride I've taken is basically the same.... Maybe I do know what it means, you're just making assumptions based off your own bias


----------



## AlteredBeast

Juggalo9er said:


> Every surge ride I've taken is basically the same.... Maybe I do know what it means, you're just making assumptions based off your own bias


Data is just data. There's no bias in hard numbers. Lol

My one caveat is that perhaps some regions do get a higher percentage taken from them. But, I doubt it's the case to where it is dramatically higher than in my area. Do your own numbers if you want to actually see the truth rather than have confirmation bias of one or two random rides tell you you're getting screwed.


----------



## FLKeys

Juggalo9er said:


> I don't think you know what you're talking about
> View attachment 305726


So far my experience with Flat rat is the same as yours, looking at all my trips with Surge in them. Grant it I don't have enough surge trips yet to confirm this however so far under the flat rate surge I am doing better than the multiplier version. Again this is on my rides in my market.


----------



## Juggalo9er

FLKeys said:


> So far my experience with Flat rat is the same as yours, looking at all my trips with Surge in them. Grant it I don't have enough surge trips yet to confirm this however so far under the flat rate surge I am doing better than the multiplier version. Again this is on my rides in my market.


It's fairly consistent


----------

