# Uber education for a noob



## Davestave (Nov 12, 2017)

Ok. Someone please show me how I’m dumb and make no money with uber. I’m relatively new at this but let’s do some math 

I have a 2014 Nissan Sentra 
$16,000- with a warranty so if anything breaks I blow a tire, lose a/c it’s $100 fix for 50,000 miles

Let’s say I use those 50000 miles for pure uber. 

So far I average $22 in gas per $300 made over 240 miles (again, this is averages and I’m rounding math for ease) 

50000/240= 208 
208x22=4600 (gas) expense
50x10=500 oil changes
$400 for tires once
$500 for 5 things breaking 
$1,100 for insurance 

300x208= $62,400 net income

$62,400-4600-400-500-500-16,000(total car value) - 1,100 =$39,300 pretax

39,300x .152= $6000

33,300 is Post tax income plus you own your car after 50000 miles. 

Hours- it usually takes me 14 hours to run thru a tank of gas so

14x208= 2900 hours
2900/ 40 = 72.5 full 40 hour weeks

median male full time employment in dallas is $33,000 a year

So basically uber isn’t a great paying full time job, but it’s way better than McDonald’s. Ok trolls. Tell me I don’t understand life and me thinking it’s ok to drive a car into the ground isn’t ok because of whatever


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

The fairy tale continues:
"$300 made over 240 miles"
So you make 1.25 per mile (including all deadmiles) while driving for Uber X/pool (Sentra is only qualified for those I believe). Mind telling me how much driver gets paid per mile down in Dallas? $1.7 a mile after Uber's cut?

"median male full time employment in dallas is $33,000 a year"
Those 33,000 comes with health insurance and other benefits, No random deactivation if a customer accuses you, Does not put you on the road risking your $16000 vehicle and your life 40 hours a week, Does not impose the health risk of sitting in the driver seat for long period of time, Want me to continue?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

In Las Vegas, drivers get about $0.90/mile and $0.11/minute. To make $300 one has to drive 400-500 miles here. One cannot drive that distance per day in Las Vegas. A full time driver can expect to gross $150 a day here. Cut your gross in half and keep the same expenses (not accurate but simple) and you're down to $9,200 pretax working full time.

You should include the mileage from when you leave the garage to when you return. Those are real miles driven for business purposes.

Troll has a negative connotation. I prefer educator.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Please remember that some expenses are hidden (until they are not).

Depreciation on your vehicle.

Higher and more frequent repair costs as your vehicle is older and more miles. Transmission replacements for example are more likely and cost more than $500, AND they take time from your working day. I have replaced 7 tires this year, been to the tire store at least a dozen times. 

Random pay cuts from U/L will blindside you. ** read the posts in Charlotte, everyone, Uber is f*cking with surge pay cuts as we speak!

The unforeseen issues, like vomit episodes, accidents, false accusations will take you out of commission for short but expensive periods of time.

- - -

Having said all that, I am driving full time myself. My take home is around $65k per year, but my true income is closer to $30k. Better than McD's for sure. And now I know where every coffee shop in the city is located


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Dallas is mid-level in terms of pay...

There's some better and a lot worse...

With better rates it's easier to turn a profit.

1. You actually understand your expenses.
2. You have good per mile rates

_*Your showing $23,100 in expenses for 50,000 miles..*_

_*This is a reasonable number.*_

You simply live in a market where it's possible to thrive... they exist..

If i lived in dallas i'd be driving uber and not a taxi.

Uber is entirely about the market... your in a good one, you are doing well.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Please remember that some expenses are hidden (until they are not).
> 
> Depreciation on your vehicle.
> 
> ...


He already deduct the TOTAL VALUE of the car in his calculation.
$62,400-4600-400-500-500-16,000(total car value) - 1,100 =$39,300 pretax

The only problem is that he is making $1.25 per mile driven (including all deadmiles, Such as miles leaving and returning home, driving to pax and waiting for ping etc) which I found hard to believe unless his market is paying 1.7 a mile to drivers after Uber cut.


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## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Taxes shmaxes, were employees according to London


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## Davestave (Nov 12, 2017)

I would love for you to continue, please tell me how me putting an asset to use, is terrible for my financial health, physical health and asset health. Those are my facts

I live as far north in dallas as is possible, and when I start out I head .25 miles west and then go south to love field. Normally within 5 minutes I have a fair, and then fairs continue till I want to stop. Today I went for 5.24 hours and made $117 at 132 miles but only using $8 in gas because I had 7 fairs all around DFW, because I was tired from being out last night till 4 am.

So, here's my real question, all you people who are "give rideshare drivers better pay" what is the goal? I know the goal is more money, but why should you get it? Like why do you guys wanna hate on this so bad? We are the peons, of course everyone makes money off of us. That's the nature of capitalism. We do the work, while ding Jane doe and dong John Doe went to college and do uber listens.

It's still a decent chance to make money in a fun manner.

And to the guy who says $33,000 a year employees have benefits.... you are a ding dong, Joe. Benefits Before a $50,000/year job is a total joke. It basically promises your in debt for 30 years but not bankrupt in case you need real medical help.

Who are you people? One guy hates on rideshare and works 10-20 hours a week and has two boats two cars 33 guns and a house to himself, must be nice. Another is so out of touch he thinks 30k salary employees have benefits worth anything. Why are you guys here?

I already explained I bought a car and paid $2700 for 50,000 miles of $100 any problem car care. Well I didn't mention the $2700 warranty plan, but my car cost 10,500 plus 2700 plus interest and then I added 1000 to get to $16000. The plan comes with a rental car while my car is in the shop. And since most failures happen over time, not mileage, a failure of a transmission that's been maintained (by the way in the warranty) is not likely to happen. If it does I pay $100 and have a rental car with unlimited miles while it's fixed. Adding to insurance is super easy for a rental, it's like $15.

Also, if you own/operate a semi, your take home is near 300k, after expenses it's like 100k. Yet the negative Nancy's aren't telling truckers to boycott.... Makes no sense

If you're in Vegas, and haven't figured out slots are super loose on sundays between 9-1pm and your driving uber, you deserve to lose money. Sorry but go play 3 wheel 3 line slots paying only cash, between 9am and 1 pm on only sundays. And if you believe this I'll believe you can't gross more than $150 a day



bsliv said:


> In Las Vegas, drivers get about $0.90/mile and $0.11/minute. To make $300 one has to drive 400-500 miles here. One cannot drive that distance per day in Las Vegas. A full time driver can expect to gross $150 a day here. Cut your gross in half and keep the same expenses (not accurate but simple) and you're down to $9,200 pretax working full time.
> 
> You should include the mileage from when you leave the garage to when you return. Those are real miles driven for business purposes.
> 
> Troll has a negative connotation. I prefer educator.


I did that. Troll.

How about instead of hating on a company that gives people a chance to make money, and then crying about the leftovers, and pay, you give me a reason you deserve more than me for driving a car carrying the same people?

I can't help but think of the realtor joke where the lady spends 20k on an open house, sells the house, makes 18k commish and I'm just making this up, are you reading?

Not one of you has made a realistic arguement as to why you should get more money. Explain why the lowest, most exploitable people should receive a pay increase....

Are some college kids going to drive their bmw into the dirt because daddy cut them off? Yessssss!!!!! But being negative Nancy's doesn't help

After an hour of reading and replying, I'm really disappointed, do the big guns come out tomorrow, or is the best anti uber can expect?


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

This guy... he's being REASONABLE.. on his expenses...

This is coming from me... this guy is actually making what he thinks he is making..

*Gasp*

Seriously the OP is in a good market and making good moneyd..



Davestave said:


> Not one of you has made a realistic arguement as to why you should get more money. Explain why the lowest, most exploitable people should receive a pay increase....
> 
> Are some college kids going to drive their bmw into the dirt because daddy cut them off? Yessssss!!!!! But being negative Nancy's doesn't help


Ok..

I want what YOUR making per minute/per mile...

not 20c less with the SAME expenses...

that's all..

I want to not be making significantly more driving a taxi in the same city...

There are cities paying substantially less. Take your 60,000 and slash it by $20,000 with the same expenses/number of miles and that's Orlando.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Davestave said:


> I would love for you to continue, please tell me how me putting an asset to use, is terrible for my financial health, physical health and asset health. Those are my facts
> 
> I live as far north in dallas as is possible, and when I start out I head .25 miles west and then go south to love field. Normally within 5 minutes I have a fair, and then fairs continue till I want to stop. Today I went for 5.24 hours and made $117 at 132 miles but only using $8 in gas because I had 7 fairs all around DFW, because I was tired from being out last night till 4 am.
> 
> ...


I see why you're stuck doing rideshare.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

Davestave said:


> I would love for you to continue, please tell me how me putting an asset to use, is terrible for my financial health, physical health and asset health. Those are my facts
> 
> I live as far north in dallas as is possible, and when I start out I head .25 miles west and then go south to love field. Normally within 5 minutes I have a fair, and then fairs continue till I want to stop. Today I went for 5.24 hours and made $117 at 132 miles but only using $8 in gas because I had 7 fairs all around DFW, because I was tired from being out last night till 4 am.
> 
> ...


I don't know why you are so butthurt, And you are trying so hard to divert the topic onto the real questions I asked. Such a huge paragraph just to mislead the discussed topic seem a little unnecessary. I asked how you are making 1.25 per mile driven, You didn't answer. The best you said was "Today I went for 5.24 hours and made $117 at 132 miles", That is not 1.25 per mile. That is 0.88 per mile before deduct your expenses.

No one mentioned anything about your financial health or asset health, I did raise the health risk imposed by full time driving which you dodged and did not answer.

You don't need to write an essay into details about your car payment, You already said 16,000 for the car and deducted the total cost from and no one said it was bad math. I even corrected the guy who said "you forgot car depreciation" by reminding him you already deducted 16000 from your gross pay. So why did you go in length writing a whole paragraph about rental etc? Are you trying to hide something?

Real benefit or not, It cost money. $30,000 salary worker's benefit might not be great but it still cost money, VS you have none. Please explain to me how zero insurance is better than basic insurance.

Stop being mad and answer those real questions.

Oh and is this the best you can do? I have to quote you because it's probably the most idiotic thing I have seen:
"So, here's my real question, all you people who are "give rideshare drivers better pay" what is the goal? I know the goal is more money, but why should you get it? Like why do you guys wanna hate on this so bad? We are the peons, of course everyone makes money off of us. That's the nature of capitalism. We do the work, while ding Jane doe and dong John Doe went to college and do uber listens."

Why shouldn't hard workers get more money? Just because we are peons does not mean we should just roll over, This is not how this world works. Survival of the fittest, You have to fight to get what you want. The nature of capitalism does not top the nature of this world, Capitalism will just be a small chapter in thousands of years of human history. And you are thinking other people are so out of touch, That is ironic. You disappointed me, Is this the best Uber can get?


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## Taco Rojas (Nov 13, 2017)

Y’all know all that money you spend on repairs and gas is a tax deduction right? It’s called work expenses or overhead. Every business has overhead. Did you not know driving would cause wear and tear? If you don’t like driving and can’t afford repairs don’t drive.


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## Frustrated!!!! (Jul 7, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Please remember that some expenses are hidden (until they are not).
> 
> Depreciation on your vehicle.
> 
> ...


You need to stop buying those cheap used tires. It's no way you go threw 7 tires unless you using bike tires


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Frustrated!!!! said:


> You need to stop buying those cheap used tires. It's no way you go threw 7 tires unless you using bike tires


Lololol
That's what I figured too, after 2 tires I was ready to explode at the tire store. But this past year Portland had their worst winter in 9 years, potholes destroyed so many cars, it was a real disaster. Couple that with 1,000+ miles per week, and I have new friends at the tire store.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Davestave said:


> Ok. Someone please show me how I'm dumb and make no money with uber. I'm relatively new at this but let's do some math
> 
> I have a 2014 Nissan Sentra
> $16,000- with a warranty so if anything breaks I blow a tire, lose a/c it's $100 fix for 50,000 miles
> ...


Use Google Maps, Uber Nav will always take you the shortest way so Uber can take a bigger cut under their upfront fares scam.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

So I googled Uber X rate in Dallas, And I am going to call BS on your story.

You said "So far I average $22 in gas per $300 made over 240 miles (again, this is averages and I’m rounding math for ease) "

So on average you make $300/240 miles = $1.25 per mile driven, Total, Easy math, right?

Uber X (Your Sentra is only qualified for X or pool, Pool pays even less) pays 0.91 per mile and 0.1 per min in Dallas, After Uber's 25% cut that translate to 0.68 per mile and 0.075 per min to the driver.

Let's say 100% your miles are paid miles, You have someone at your door at the beginning of your shift, And next rider waiting at previous rider's destination and so on, Finally last rider's destination is your home.

Assume you drive 30 mile per hour (which is pretty good for city driving, You'd be lucky to move 15 miles in LA, But again let me just assume all the best scenario for you), At base rate Uber pays you $0.68/mile x 30 mile+ $0.075/min x 60 min = $24.9 per hour, Let's just round it up to $25 for easy calculation. $25/30 mile = $0.83 per mile, Pretty far from your $1.25 per mile claim unless you are constantly driving at 1.5x boost.

For your claim to be true in Dallas, You have to drive 100% paid miles from the moment you leave your house and return home, Drive at least 30 mile per hour, At a 1.5x boost to make 1.25 per mile. So yeah, I call shill on this one.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Aerodrifting said:


> For your claim to be true in Dallas, You have to drive 100% paid miles from the moment you leave your house and return home, Drive at least 30 mile per hour, At a 1.5x boost to make 1.25 per mile. So yeah, I call shill on this one


Or they could have had a great surge night.

Curious to find out if the great income is still great for the OP.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Or they could have had a great surge night.
> 
> Curious to find out if the great income is still great for the OP.


My calculated number is based on *driving 30 paid miles per hour with zero deadmile and zero wait time inbetween rides,* Even with those numbers he needs to be at constant 1.5x surge to meet his claim. In reality he needs to drive 3.0x surge to meet his claim, I don't believe Dallas has 3.0x surge 24/7


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## newdriverintown (Sep 20, 2017)

Taco Rojas said:


> Y'all know all that money you spend on repairs and gas is a tax deduction right? It's called work expenses or overhead. Every business has overhead. Did you not know driving would cause wear and tear? If you don't like driving and can't afford repairs don't drive.


Depends if you choose the standard deduction or actual expenses. If you choose the standard $0.535/mile, then no, you can't deduct repairs.

I call BS as well. I live in Dallas and today I did $125/116 miles.. doing only Select. So if he does X and claims to get more than a dollar/mile, he's lying. 
I did do uber X for a month and never got near what he claims. What I don't get is, why do UberX drivers lie to themselves so much?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Taxes shmaxes, were employees according to London


Last time I checked we gained our independence from London 240 years ago.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> This guy... he's being REASONABLE.. on his expenses...
> 
> This is coming from me... this guy is actually making what he thinks he is making..
> 
> ...


His expenses are reasonable but expecting $300 in earnings a day is not.


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## ChiDriver007 (Oct 24, 2017)

I do not know why U/L sending those people with these made up numbers on this forum - I know, the idea is to lure new would be drivers to sign up BUT each such post is followed by response by 10-20 first hand accounts by real drivers...

Yes, the income is BS - I work in a market paying higher rates than Dallas and I rarely make over $1/total miles driven. Is there days that I do - sure but the average is less than $1/mile.

Additionally 55h work week *in his calculation* is not full time - it is 52 week of work with 15h overtime each and every week of the year with not a single day vacation.

PS Do not ask but him what this statistic mean - I ran through a tank of gas in 14h. 14h of driving? 14h online or something else?


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## Davestave (Nov 12, 2017)

Wow, i kinda just meant to give hope to uber drivers, i didn’t realize we had so many historians and mathematicians in our midst. Makes me wonder why so many people are bedroom eating ramen while watches Hawaii five o and doing uber math. 

So my latest figures for this week are $516 per 724 miles with personal usage. So worst case scenario someone due that math, 

I just wanna know why you people hate on uber so hard, yet take enough interest to Post here? I mean uber is going to get worse with time not better, constant zero skill absorption into the company yields resentment amongst veteran staff. 

I’ll be the first to say i get 4/10 vip users, and the first to say I’ve had 4 non 5 star reviews. 

I also stated in my statement it was about my first week. So any 1/52 time module should be are you reading still 470 for 350 miles do people from uber even read this? Who knows?

Not sure why you are calling me a liar, I’ve been posting my truths. Sorry i haven’t had time to retaliate against trolls calls me a liar. 

I’ve been... working. I mean if i was purposefully falsifying things ya call me out. Full disclosure when i factored those original numbers i did have 4x surge pay me a bunch but i figured that was normal. 

That’s why i titles the post as i did. 

I don’t understand people expecting uber to be a life changing job, as I’ve said, it’s capitalism. 

If you expect a miracle job, try gas station attendent. No car needed, solid hourly rate.

I only wanted to write a “no more ubereats post” with this time. But y’all are some hating mofos. It’s almost like, no one forced you to do this. Weird


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

"Full disclosure when i factored those original numbers i did have 4x surge pay me a bunch but i figured that was normal."

Ok your initial number can make sense now.

However I wouldn't recommend extrapolating that out to 52 weeks. The ultimate aim of Uber is to get so many drivers out on the street that surge never happens. So basically do your financial forecast based on zero surge. Then when uber screws with the potential surge earnings you wont be caught off guard.


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## Davestave (Nov 12, 2017)

Maybe you suck at getting tips? Maybe i work a better part of town? 

Maybe your not from Dallas and your a troll. 

Oh man maybe i work for my work and you sit idle, 115 miles? In a day? I made 196 today. So your better Carnot possible stuff is out. I already deducted total value of my car. Don’t be mad. Let’s switch cars and I’ll make more than you everyday of the week, not just today and tomorrow

Won’t be caught off guard? Mystery area person? Mister know it all? 

Pray tell, give me the atrocious numbers Uber’s done for you and the numbers you would have gotten without uber?

Hey anon, uber didn’t ask me to write me back. I don’t represent uber. Just like you drove for 23 hours three years ago


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Davestave said:


> I just wanna know why you people hate on uber so hard, yet take enough interest to Post here? I mean uber is going to get worse with time not better, constant zero skill absorption into the company yields resentment amongst veteran staff.


Yes, uber is going to get worse,

The ONLY constant with uber is that things will get progressivly worse.

In Orlando, rates for X started at $1.65 a mile, or about 2/3 of taxi rates.

They have been slashed down to drivers getting 53c per mile (with an all time low of 48c per mile)

Rates have only been raised once, by 4 cents.

The airport used to be a good place for indepent black car operators to get a bulk of their business, through uberBlack. Rates where amazing... like over $2.40 a mile. (this is with a $50,000 car mind you)

Now those same cars are getting... $1.23 a mile (on select) (this is the same $50,000 car that used to get over $3.00 per mile) or 90c a mile doing XL

I post here because... well i'm the top recruiter for the cab company i work for, exclusively because I cornered the market on the uberpeople forums.

About half of the new driver sign ups we get at the cab company end up being... former rideshare drivers...

Driving uber is sooo terrible in Orlando that quitting, and driving a cab WILL STILL make you more money than driving uber. Even with the damage uber has caused to the taxi market here. (one cab company has already gone belly up)

I stick around because it suits my purposes... and i have fun trolling.

But maybe you guessed that about me already?


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Must be nice to get those 4x surges.

I put in about 60 hrs per week. Weekdays are day shifts and weekends are 3pm-4am. Plenty of opportunities for surge.... but they don't exist here.

A good 70% of my rides originate within 5 miles of the downtown core (yes, including downtown).

I see maybe 3 or 4 surge rides per week. Uber and Lyft have successfully recruited SO MANY drivers that surge is almost completely gone.

I have had a total of maybe a dozen surge rides that were over 3.5x since I started a year and a half ago. Almost all of them were in a snowstorm, which happens once every decade in my city.

Maybe that helps you understand the pessimism, at least from me. I can't speak for anyone else.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

So to the original poster for your first week numbers that you extrapolated to 52 weeks, how much of that amount was due to surge versus regular base earnings?


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

Davestave said:


> Wow, i kinda just meant to give hope to uber drivers, i didn't realize we had so many historians and mathematicians in our midst. Makes me wonder why so many people are bedroom eating ramen while watches Hawaii five o and doing uber math.
> 
> So my latest figures for this week are $516 per 724 miles with personal usage. So worst case scenario someone due that math,
> 
> ...


LOL so I was right, Last page my calculation concluded that you need to drive at least 3x surge to make the numbers you claim, And here you are claiming you had 4x surge pay.

So where is this fairy town that 4x surge lasts forever? It's certainly not any of the places I know of.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

So if we take away surge his earnings would be 25% of what he forecast?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Davestave said:


> So my latest figures for this week are $516 per 724 miles with personal usage. So worst case scenario someone due that math,


$516 a week x 52 weeks is $26,832 gross. Assuming 40 hour a week, that's $12.90 per hour, gross. Expenses were estimated in post #1 as $23,100 per year. That's leaves a net of $3,732 per year or about $1.79 per hour.

It may not be as bad as it seems. The expense calculations in post #1 may need to be looked at again. I'm just using numbers provided by the op. There are some good threads here about how to properly calculate the cost to drive.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

bsliv said:


> $516 a week x 52 weeks is $26,832 gross. Assuming 40 hour a week, that's $12.90 per hour, gross. Expenses were estimated in post #1 as $23,100 per year. That's leaves a net of $3,732 per year or about $1.79 per hour.
> 
> It may not be as bad as it seems. The expense calculations in post #1 may need to be looked at again. I'm just using numbers provided by the op. There are some good threads here about how to properly calculate the cost to drive.


Your expenses are impossible to correctly calculate until your getting rid of your car.

It's only a guess as to how long your brake pads will last, how long your tires will hold up, how long your struts will survive...

And most importantly how well your car will hold it's value until the moment you sell it (this is the final result of depreciation)

I know that 53.5c a mile is high,

And i know 16c a mile is low

That's a huge range...


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Your expenses are impossible to correctly calculate until your getting rid of your car.
> 
> It's only a guess as to how long your brake pads will last, how long your tires will hold up, how long your struts will survive...
> 
> ...


I agree that expenses are impossible to accurately predict but an estimate can do a fairly good job. Its impossible to accurately predict what gas mileage one will get but one can estimate fairly close. Maintenance is laid out in the owner's manual. Apply a cost to each maintenance item. Estimating depreciation based on mileage alone can be done through a website. Estimating expected repairs can be the toughest but not impossible. Lazy? Try asking for an after market warranty. The warranty providers have the data. Tires and brakes can be estimated to last xxxx miles. Battery can be estimated to last x years. Some engines or transmissions may go 200,000 miles, some may only average 100,000. A/C compressor may go 7 years.

The IRS hired someone to do the calculations. They determined the average new car costs $32,000. They determined that driving that average car from when new to 5 years old, putting on 15,000 miles per year, costs about $0.535 per mile. That new car lost thousands of dollars in depreciation during the first mile. The $0.535 rate includes taxes, finance charges, personal insurance, gas, maintenance, depreciation, and repairs. Some of those costs won't apply to most rideshare cars. On the other hand, there may be costs for rideshare cars that the IRS didn't include. Stuff like a business license, a dedicated cell phone, cell service, water, mints, etc. And we all know depreciation will approach zero as the car ages. But as the depreciation shrinks, the amount of expected repairs increases. Some say the expected repair costs exceed depreciation costs after only a couple of years. But the ones saying that are high priced mechanics.

I agree, $0.535 seems high. But if one has a new car that cost more than $32,000, chances are very good the cost to drive that car exceeds $0.535. Some say a car depreciates 20% the first year. With 15,000 miles during the first year, a new $32,000 car has a depreciation rate of $0.427 per mile! Gas adds about $0.10. I can't see anyone's costs being less than $0.16 a mile but can see how it may be higher, sometimes much higher, than $0.535.

It may be difficult to calculate but one can't know one's income from a business without knowing one's cost to run the business. By estimating the cost to drive a mile for rideshare, one can make an educated decision on whether the contract offered makes financial sense.

The OP wants to depreciate his $16,000 car to $0 after one year. That's the biggest flaw in his expense calculations. 726 miles a week means his depreciation rate is $0.424 per mile. Add gas, maintenance, repairs, etc., and his cost per mile is huge.


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## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

Here's my standard reply to the fantasy earnings posts: Uber drivers, in most markets, on average, make about $10 per hour after expenses. That is all.


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## aardia (Dec 29, 2017)

So far, no one has directly mentioned the expense of recovering from some nasty illness you picked up from a passenger blowing snot (without tissue visably present) and coughing onto the back of your neck, or from the no-hand-sanitizer sickies who want to borrow your charge cord. Oh, then there was the guy who reached for my bottle of water without even asking first if it was for passengers.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

gofry said:


> Here's my standard reply to the fantasy earnings posts: Uber drivers, in most markets, on average, make about $10 per hour after expenses. That is all.


Can't make $10 BEFORE expenses in orlando,

The local craigslist ad gives $360 for 40 hours on the add.



bsliv said:


> I agree that expenses are impossible to accurately predict but an estimate can do a fairly good job. Its impossible to accurately predict what gas mileage one will get but one can estimate fairly close. Maintenance is laid out in the owner's manual. Apply a cost to each maintenance item. Estimating depreciation based on mileage alone can be done through a website. Estimating expected repairs can be the toughest but not impossible. Lazy? Try asking for an after market warranty. The warranty providers have the data. Tires and brakes can be estimated to last xxxx miles. Battery can be estimated to last x years. Some engines or transmissions may go 200,000 miles, some may only average 100,000. A/C compressor may go 7 years.
> 
> The IRS hired someone to do the calculations. They determined the average new car costs $32,000. They determined that driving that average car from when new to 5 years old, putting on 15,000 miles per year, costs about $0.535 per mile. That new car lost thousands of dollars in depreciation during the first mile. The $0.535 rate includes taxes, finance charges, personal insurance, gas, maintenance, depreciation, and repairs. Some of those costs won't apply to most rideshare cars. On the other hand, there may be costs for rideshare cars that the IRS didn't include. Stuff like a business license, a dedicated cell phone, cell service, water, mints, etc. And we all know depreciation will approach zero as the car ages. But as the depreciation shrinks, the amount of expected repairs increases. Some say the expected repair costs exceed depreciation costs after only a couple of years. But the ones saying that are high priced mechanics.
> 
> ...


You gotta be in the 16c a mile range to do uberX in orlando. If you want any profit at all. Personally I think it's just not possible anymore.

35-50%ish paid mile ratio. (Orlando is really really bad about this)

53c per paid mile

16c a mile cost

32-48c a mile in costs per paid mile.

_*5-20c per paid mile profit + 8c per minute*_

the math just isn't here at all. Uber can always cut rates further for everyone.


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

Aerodrifting said:


> Capitalism will just be a small chapter in thousands of years of human history.


It may be a small chapter but I think it will be the final one.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

JMlyftuber said:


> It may be a small chapter but I think it will be the final one.


Capitalism has been around since the first caveman traded some fish for some berries. Even the most socialist country must operate as capitalists in the international market. China will not give its steel to the country that needs it the most, they will sell it to the country that will pay the most. Capitalism is the most efficient system to distribute limited resources.


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

bsliv said:


> Capitalism has been around since the first caveman traded some fish for some berries. Even the most socialist country must operate as capitalists in the international market. China will not give its steel to the country that needs it the most, they will sell it to the country that will pay the most. Capitalism is the most efficient system to distribute limited resources.


I think you're confusing capitalism with free markets.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

JMlyftuber said:


> I think you're confusing capitalism with free markets.


Perhaps I am. To me, capitalism is an economy based on free markets. What is capitalism to you?


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

Davestave said:


> If you're in Vegas, and haven't figured out slots are super loose on sundays between 9-1pm and your driving uber, you deserve to lose money.


slots or ****s? cause i dont think you understand how slots work...


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

bsliv said:


> Perhaps I am. To me, capitalism is an economy based on free markets. What is capitalism to you?


To me capitalism means that those who control the most economic resources have the greatest share of political power, whereas a free market means that buyers and sellers are free to negotiate trades.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

JMlyftuber said:


> hat those who control the most economic resources have the greatest share of political power


I believe the proper term for that situation is crony capitalism. Those with money get their pal elected. Their pal then makes favorable rulings for the business. The media should be the watchdog for the public to prevent crony capitalism.

The three key components of capitalism are private property, individual freedom, and free markets. Without a government, people are usually capitalists. Individuals will try to maximize their production in order to trade the surplus for other goods. Some may form a family unit, commune or other organization that shares resources but that could be considered a form of government.

Socialism has public property and tightly controlled markets. Those economic controls limit personal freedom. For instance, one could be prevented from growing their own food due to that food effecting both supply and demand of food. The central planners may not like the competition.


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

bsliv said:


> For instance, one could be prevented from growing their own food due to that food effecting both supply and demand of food. The central planners may not like the competition.


 We have that here, it became the legal justification for our laws against cannabis - Wickard v. Filburn. And then there are countries with large amounts of socialised resources but still almost complete personal autonomy, such as most of Europe. The shopkeeper can sell what they want at whatever price the buyer is willing to pay, but a relatively socialist system nonetheless.


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## Driver Ed (Dec 24, 2017)

Who told you UBER was great pay....UBER? Not. Average UBERx driver shows a NET INCOME (after expenses) of $7.43 / Hr. before tax. An MIT study published in Mar 2018 showed an average profit for drivers at $3.37/ Hr.

*Also, you left out significant expenses from your list below'*
*5*0000/240= 208 
208x22=4600 (gas) expense
50x10=500 oil changes
$400 for tires once
$500 for 5 things breaking 
$1,100 for insurance 

*What about . . . ?*
1. Cell Phone
2. Cell service
3. Car Washes
4. Vacation Time
5. 12 days off / year for sick leave / personal days
6. Traffic / Parking Tickets
7. Car registration
8. Retirement fund
9. Cleaning supplies
10. Minor dents / scratches

Who pays for those costs ? or do drivers pretend they don't exist?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

JMlyftuber said:


> We have that here, it became the legal justification for our laws against cannabis - Wickard v. Filburn. And then there are countries with large amounts of socialised resources but still almost complete personal autonomy, such as most of Europe. The shopkeeper can sell what they want at whatever price the buyer is willing to pay, but a relatively socialist system nonetheless.


I realize we have crop limits here, that's why I brought it up. Our government subsidizes tobacco farmers. Our government can prevent one from growing wheat or corn. I say let the farmers profit or fail based on their own decisions. Keep the government out. What type of personal autonomy do farmers have? What type of personal autonomy does a medical doctor have in a country with socialized medicine? What type of personal autonomy does a financial planner have in a country that gives a retirement income to all? How much autonomy do firearm manufactures have in Great Britain?

Socialism brings laws that must be enforced. Every law I know of is a restriction of personal autonomy. Some are necessary and they are usually self evident (murder, theft, etc.). It ridiculous a farmer can't grow corn because it may disrupt the central planner's ideals. Its ridiculous someone gets killed for selling loose cigarettes.


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## 1974toyota (Jan 5, 2018)

Davestave said:


> Ok. Someone please show me how I'm dumb and make no money with uber. I'm relatively new at this but let's do some math
> 
> I have a 2014 Nissan Sentra
> $16,000- with a warranty so if anything breaks I blow a tire, lose a/c it's $100 fix for 50,000 miles
> ...


If your happy doing uber with that car, & you think your doing good,who am i to say any thing, GL Happy Ubering,JMO


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

Don’t forget unreimbursed rider damage and hit-and run damage.. in my first year those totaled about 2 grand. You’re also forgetting upkeep which is not included in your warranty. That’s weekly oil changes and new tires every few months. I get a special deal on oil and tires but I bet you don’t. 

Oh and don’t forget independent contractor federal taxes. That’s about 30% of your post-deduction income. I don’t live in a state tax state but you might. Don’t forget that.


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

HotUberMess said:


> Don't forget unreimbursed rider damage and hit-and run damage.. in my first year those totaled about 2 grand. You're also forgetting upkeep which is not included in your warranty. That's weekly oil changes and new tires every few months. I get a special deal on oil and tires but I bet you don't.


you go 15k miles in one week? ! might not be that special of a deal...


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I’ve done my math. a little differently

I figure on 30 cents a mile costs (15 cents gas And 15 cents maintenance and depreciation)

My goal is a dollar a mile (total miles) I make it some days but some days are like today at
60 cents (total miles = 316; money earned $189 (includes $70 tips)

Usually at the end of the week I’m somewhere around 85 cents

So that’s an income of 55 cents a mile

If I do 75000 miles a year that’s $40000

Interesting I saw a truck the other day with the thpical “drivers wanted” painted on the back. This one said you would earn 55 cents a mile


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

oldfart said:


> I've done my math. a little differently
> 
> I figure on 30 cents a mile costs (15 cents gas And 15 cents maintenance and depreciation)
> 
> ...


You calculated your estimated cost per mile to drive. 
You calculated your actual revenue per mile, averaged over a long enough time span to be relevant.
You subtracted one from the other to determine profit/loss. 
Perfect.
Just make sure you include all your costs (repairs, tickets, etc.). MIT says 30 cents. I calculate about 30 cents. You say 30 cents. We might be on to something.

If you track your actual revenue per mile, the time of day, and the neighborhood, you could attempt to maximize your income. If people shared this info with others in their city ...


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

Driver Ed said:


> Who told you UBER was great pay....UBER? Not. Average UBERx driver shows a NET INCOME (after expenses) of $7.43 / Hr. before tax. An MIT study published in Mar 2018 showed an average profit for drivers at $3.37/ Hr.
> 
> *Also, you left out significant expenses from your list below'*
> *5*0000/240= 208
> ...


Actually Uber does market themselves as offering pay substantially above minimum wage, and claims things like min. wage guarantee, $1,000 bonus for first 150 trips completed, etc.


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## Eugene73 (Jun 29, 2017)

car will hit 50,000 miles in the first year, everything will be shot, and if you're lucky it will be worth a 1/4 of its new price.

boom -- net income just dropped by $12k 

oh and you forgot brakes, shocks, and wait till they void your warranty for commercial use of the vehicle.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Eugene73 said:


> car will hit 50,000 miles in the first year, everything will be shot, and if you're lucky it will be worth a 1/4 of its new price.
> 
> boom -- net income just dropped by $12k
> 
> oh and you forgot brakes, shocks, and wait till they void your warranty for commercial use of the vehicle.


yup that can happen...

I bought a Toyota with a commercial warranty... (purchased with the assumption it was to be used for commercial purposes)
I had to pay cash for the vehicle up front..

No one would finance the new vehicle purchase for commercial use either... (I was up front about using it for a taxi) I had to put up equity on my house as collateral on the loan i did end up getting... which wasn't a car loan, it was a home equity loan...

I got exactly ONE offer of a 18 month loan... crappy terms. It mileage limits on it which is virtually unheard of for a loan (NOT A LEASE A LOAN) i would have been in violation of the terms of the loan in... 5 months... of the 18 month loan.

The monthly payments on the loan?
$1,600

No joke!

What i got was a 36 month 36,000 mile commercial warranty...

It lasted me all of _*6 months*_.

Within 3 1/2 years the only warranty i had left was the 60 month corrosion coverage... everything else gone.

4o months isn't long term, not in the grand scheme of things. It's less than most car loans,

It's also your vehicles life expectancy ubering full time if you don't get into any accidents.

You need to have your car 100% paid off in 40 months of buying it, with plans to buy a new car with virtually no trade in value from your old car.

You know who does this?

Taxi drivers...

That's it guys...

Taxi drivers inflict a special level of pain and suffering on their cars, and this is what the result is.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

bsliv said:


> You calculated your estimated cost per mile to drive.
> You calculated your actual revenue per mile, averaged over a long enough time span to be relevant.
> You subtracted one from the other to determine profit/loss.
> Perfect.
> ...


To add a little more to this. I don't think in terms of depreciation. Rather than that I think in terms of replacement. Asking the question; how long will this thing last and how much will it cost to replace it. And what do I have to do to be prepared for the inevitable replacement

I figure 2 years to a replacement. With any luck I'll be able to sell it for something, but if not, I'll junk it. I set aside $1200 a month. 200 is for basic maintenance ) oil, tires brakes etc, ). And $1000 is for a new car.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

oldfart said:


> To add a little more to this. I don't think in terms of depreciation. Rather than that I think in terms of replacement. Asking the question; how long will this thing last and how much will it cost to replace it. And what do I have to do to be prepared for the inevitable replacement
> 
> I figure 2 years to a replacement. With any luck I'll be able to sell it for something, but if not, I'll junk it. I set aside $1200 a month. 200 is for basic maintenance ) oil, tires brakes etc, ). And $1000 is for a new car.


That's the way i look at it to..


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

Me too. I can do almost any repair myself with the exception of those that need a lift or engine hoist, so my car is more valuable to me personally than the kbb price, so depreciation as a cost doesn't make as much sense as costs of repairs and finally replacement once it becomes scrap metal.


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