# Interesting read if you wish to try to understand Amazon's ways



## CarmenFlexDriver (Jun 21, 2016)

This article might have been posted before. Just gives a real and unfiltered understanding of how amazon works and makes decisions. 
Such a perspective may change how you approach this gig and explain why they do things they do.

Long read but at least read the first few parts, you'll get some good insight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/t...g-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html?_r=1


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## FlexGuyJim (Oct 29, 2016)

CarmenFlexDriver said:


> This article might have been posted before. Just gives a real and unfiltered understanding of how amazon works and makes decisions.
> Such a perspective may change how you approach this gig and explain why they do things they do.
> 
> Long read but at least read the first few parts, you'll get some good insight.
> ...


Carmen...great read...thanks 4 sharing!!! yeah...i did a xmas seasonal stint in one of their Fulfiillment Centers last xmas! its a machine...n your production is monitored to a knats ass! i enjoyed my time there...but def a gig for the youngbloods!


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## ZoomZoomFlex (Nov 10, 2016)

FlexGuyJim said:


> Carmen...great read...thanks 4 sharing!!! yeah...i did a xmas seasonal stint in one of their Fulfiillment Centers last xmas! its a machine...n your production is monitored to a knats ass! i enjoyed my time there...but def a gig for the youngbloods!


Did you quit or did your "season" end? I just got offered a full time seasonal job and during the drug test I was told the job could be up to 11 months, but you hit production goals you will be hired permanent. Was that misleading by them? Right now, I am just waiting for my start date as my drug/background passed.


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## FlexGuyJim (Oct 29, 2016)

Nope..its spot on! but we need to talk...believe me, if u can make this Flex thing work 4u it 100x better n easier than working at an Amazon FC! n the 4x10 work week sounds great but as a seasonal hire there is A MANDATORY 5TH day of OT. youll work 55hrs+ n still not clear what u can driving Flex 35hrs a week! not trying to scare off...just my .02 hvng been there, done that! o...n btw once ur an Amazon emplyee u cant do Flex any more. ill catcg up w u at the WH today for a quick chat. u drive the granite mazda hatchback right? see u ltr..Gettin ready now for my 9a block...take care.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

With the challenges some people have had getting blocks and avoiding the mysterious Customer Expectations hatchet, the guaranteed hours in a warehouse might be attractive, as long as you know what you're getting into. 

I don't have a sense yet on what Amazon wants Flex to be, really. In some ways it seems they envisioned a few blocks a week side gig, and people turned it into a full time (plus?) pursuit. Kind of like Uber in that way I guess; what that's turned into has very little resemblance to Ride "Sharing", does it? Are they planning to wean themselves off of UPS/Fedex/USPS completely, grow the fleet of white vans, and fill in around the edges with Flex cars? Are we just a stop-gap until they have their own (subcontracted) van fleet in place nationwide? Who knows.....


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## CarmenFlexDriver (Jun 21, 2016)

Yeh, I would say if this gig has you not thinking too highly of amazon or liking how it goes, you'll especially NOT like working directly for amazon! 
But, if you read that article you'll have a better understanding of why things are they way they are and reasons why.


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## ZoomZoomFlex (Nov 10, 2016)

FlexGuyJim said:


> Nope..its spot on! but we need to talk...believe me, if u can make this Flex thing work 4u it 100x better n easier than working at an Amazon FC! n the 4x10 work week sounds great but as a seasonal hire there is A MANDATORY 5TH day of OT. youll work 55hrs+ n still not clear what u can driving Flex 35hrs a week! not trying to scare off...just my .02 hvng been there, done that! o...n btw once ur an Amazon emplyee u cant do Flex any more. ill catcg up w u at the WH today for a quick chat. u drive the granite mazda hatchback right? see u ltr..Gettin ready now for my 9a block...take care.


Yeah, typically one of the first in the WH. I'm already here for my 9am.

They have me at 5 days/wk, 8hrs/day with possible OT up to 2 hrs/day. Two days off a week which I need. I enjoy Flex, but it's not consistent, I never get reserved blocks, and I can't do the afternoon/night shifts. I can't work Sat anymore starting this weekend. So, with morning blocks only I can only get 6 a week max which is not enough. I just got my gas bill for the month and it was $400. Pretty much wipes out a week of Flex pay. Averaging 130 miles/day since I'm 32.5 miles away from the WH and my routes are never in the direction where I live. I'm usually 45-60 miles away from home when done. I'm only 10 miles away from the Fulfillment Center. The money is about the same, but I'll cut my gas expenses by 75-80% so I'll have more money in my pocket in the end (with benefits and holiday pay too). So figured give it a shot and hopefully move into Management.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Zoom, that's awesome. Doing what it takes to take care of business, and with an eye on the future.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Great attitude, youll be a blue vest and no time and actually be able to relate to the challenges drivers face.

Dont forget about us little people!

I have noticed a lot of security and orange vest workers say they wish they could drive. At my warehouse a lot of them dont have a car so they couldnt flex but they would if they could.

Its too bad you cant double dip and do both. Would probably get the best routes.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

CarmenFlexDriver said:


> But, if you read that article you'll have a better understanding of why things are they way they are and reasons why.


Oh, I read it when it came out a few months ago, it was the talk of social media for a few days.

Compared with my day job, I've enjoyed just being a cog in the machine doing Flex deliveries, and even Uber for a while. But I have great empathy for how tough it is for people trying to support their family on these gigs.


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## CarmenFlexDriver (Jun 21, 2016)

Yeh, I figured it had been posted before but thought it would be good to repost. I read a lot but missed this one. 
Think it's a good way to get a perspective on the culture of amazon and know what goes on behind the scenes and their decision making process.


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## ZoomZoomFlex (Nov 10, 2016)

jester121 said:


> Zoom, that's awesome. Doing what it takes to take care of business, and with an eye on the future.


Thanks! Yeah, looking ahead vs. just now.



Shangsta said:


> Great attitude, youll be a blue vest and no time and actually be able to relate to the challenges drivers face.
> 
> Dont forget about us little people!
> 
> ...


Fulfillment is way different than Logistics. As Flex drivers we go to a Logistics WH. That work is much more chill vs. being in Fulfillment where you (or I will soon be) under quotas. I do hope to transfer over to Logistics though since being a Flex driver I understand the "system". Just no full time jobs right now, but I hear some are coming down the line. With those I talked with at my WH, none want to be Flex drivers - they admit to the uncertainty and in my particular WH we just drive very far. Not sure how many other Flex drivers outside of DLA5 rack on 100+ miles/day per block. For routes, we don't get to pick. It's just the luck of the straw pull when you pull in. I think this gig would be solid if you can get a block a day and not drive over 50 or so miles max per block including your commute to the WH unless you have a Prius.


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## ZoomZoomFlex (Nov 10, 2016)

jester121 said:


> Oh, I read it when it came out a few months ago, it was the talk of social media for a few days.
> 
> Compared with my day job, I've enjoyed just being a cog in the machine doing Flex deliveries, and even Uber for a while. But I have great empathy for how tough it is for people trying to support their family on these gigs.


There's no way you can support a family doing these "on-demand" contractor jobs. At least not in California. That's probably why I see so many cars at my WH with Uber and Lyft stickers on them. Some are doing 3+ on demand contractor jobs, not just one like Flex. I've even heard some doing Postmates and UberEats too.


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## ZoomZoomFlex (Nov 10, 2016)

FlexGuyJim said:


> Nope..its spot on! but we need to talk...believe me, if u can make this Flex thing work 4u it 100x better n easier than working at an Amazon FC! n the 4x10 work week sounds great but as a seasonal hire there is A MANDATORY 5TH day of OT. youll work 55hrs+ n still not clear what u can driving Flex 35hrs a week! not trying to scare off...just my .02 hvng been there, done that! o...n btw once ur an Amazon emplyee u cant do Flex any more. ill catcg up w u at the WH today for a quick chat. u drive the granite mazda hatchback right? see u ltr..Gettin ready now for my 9a block...take care.


Nice to meet ya today and thanks for the head's up in Fulfillment. Just hoping things changed since last year when I get in there.


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## LLXC (Nov 22, 2016)

jester121 said:


> I don't have a sense yet on what Amazon wants Flex to be, really. In some ways it seems they envisioned a few blocks a week side gig, and people turned it into a full time (plus?) pursuit. Kind of like Uber in that way I guess; what that's turned into has very little resemblance to Ride "Sharing", does it? Are they planning to wean themselves off of UPS/Fedex/USPS completely, grow the fleet of white vans, and fill in around the edges with Flex cars? Are we just a stop-gap until they have their own (subcontracted) van fleet in place nationwide? Who knows.....


Agreed. I have no idea what their end goal is. Are they using the data compiled when using Amazon Flex drivers as leverage when they (re)negotiate with UPS/Fedex/USPS (Amazon Flex drivers take this long, and costs us this much...I'm sure you guys can do better as professional drivers)? Are we cheaper than what is costing them through logistics? If logistics is more expensive, do they have them as a buffer they need against the uncertainty of anti independent contractor lawsuits? If they do decide to replace their reliance on UPS/Fedex/USPS, will they actually hire good Flex driers and pay them okay (some UPS/Fedex/USPS drivers make solid money)?

What I am noticing recently is that they release blocks closer and closer to when the block starts. Like today, I am seeing slots up for 6PM starting at 5:50PM. I can see them being able to not have to over hire (when guessing) too many drivers in the future, and simply request them on demand. They often have extra drivers sitting at the warehouse in case of 1 hour deliveries. Well, in the future, if a 1 hour package came in, they probably expect to be able to offer up a "block" (or maybe a simple 1 deliver contract), and have it accepted almost instantly.


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## ZoomZoomFlex (Nov 10, 2016)

Wow....

*Amazon worker leaps from building at Seattle campus*

*http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Amazon-worker-leaps-from-building-at-Seattle-10640986.php*


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## FlexGuyJim (Oct 29, 2016)

jester121 said:


> With the challenges some people have had getting blocks and avoiding the mysterious Customer Expectations hatchet, the guaranteed hours in a warehouse might be attractive, as long as you know what you're getting into.
> 
> I don't have a sense yet on what Amazon wants Flex to be, really. In some ways it seems they envisioned a few blocks a week side gig, and people turned it into a full time (plus?) pursuit. Kind of like Uber in that way I guess; what that's turned into has very little resemblance to Ride "Sharing", does it? Are they planning to wean themselves off of UPS/Fedex/USPS completely, grow the fleet of white vans, and fill in around the edges with Flex cars? Are we just a stop-gap until they have their own (subcontracted) van fleet in place nationwide? Who knows.....


Yeah...i think Shangsta has one of t


LLXC said:


> Agreed. I have no idea what their end goal is. Are they using the data compiled when using Amazon Flex drivers as leverage when they (re)negotiate with UPS/Fedex/USPS (Amazon Flex drivers take this long, and costs us this much...I'm sure you guys can do better as professional drivers)? Are we cheaper than what is costing them through logistics? If logistics is more expensive, do they have them as a buffer they need against the uncertainty of anti independent contractor lawsuits? If they do decide to replace their reliance on UPS/Fedex/USPS, will they actually hire good Flex driers and pay them okay (some UPS/Fedex/USPS drivers make solid money)?
> 
> What I am noticing recently is that they release blocks closer and closer to when the block starts. Like today, I am seeing slots up for 6PM starting at 5:50PM. I can see them being able to not have to over hire (when guessing) too many drivers in the future, and simply request them on demand. They often have extra drivers sitting at the warehouse in case of 1 hour deliveries. Well, in the future, if a 1 hour package came in, they probably expect to be able to offer up a "block" (or maybe a simple 1 deliver contract), and have it accepted almost instantly.


Nice feedback LLXC! 1 major thing i left out of my "40 Hr Cap" post was that the same Blue Vest i spoke with told me is that FLEX is the wave of Amazons future! He said theyre opening 2 more .com WH's within 30 miles of my wh within the next year!...n volume is less than a zero problem! didnt say it in so many words..but he def made it sound like Amazon wants the white vans to go away n do it on their own terms!
N btw...was in NO way putting down any Amazon FC emplymnt in my earlier posts! just sharing my 1 off experience doing it last xmas. anyone who is successful n thrives there has my utmost respect!!!
N yes, Anyone who puts all their eggs in the Flex Gig Basket hoping 2 make it ur 1 n only FT gig is setting ur self up for heart/financial break! Were all only a crap day r 2 from deactivation! read any of Shangsta's posts 4 a healthy perspective/reality check!
kudos to zoomzoom 4 taking the plunge! hardest job i evr loved 4 6weeks workin at a fulfillment center! but u def need 2b a 1 off freak to thrive/suceed in that enviroment!
Ill end w required reading from Carmen! beyond relavent link to putting u in the right mindset if you want anything to do w working for/with Amazon!


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## jade88 (Oct 6, 2016)

Damn Amazon worker jumped off company building but survived. He was unhappy... This article mentions the NY Times article and how they're trying to change their image as a difficult employer.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...il-note/ar-AAkRIv4?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

LLXC said:


> Agreed. I have no idea what their end goal is. Are they using the data compiled when using Amazon Flex drivers as leverage when they (re)negotiate with UPS/Fedex/USPS (Amazon Flex drivers take this long, and costs us this much...I'm sure you guys can do better as professional drivers)? Are we cheaper than what is costing them through logistics? If logistics is more expensive, do they have them as a buffer they need against the uncertainty of anti independent contractor lawsuits? If they do decide to replace their reliance on UPS/Fedex/USPS, will they actually hire good Flex driers and pay them okay (some UPS/Fedex/USPS drivers make solid money)?
> 
> What I am noticing recently is that they release blocks closer and closer to when the block starts. Like today, I am seeing slots up for 6PM starting at 5:50PM. I can see them being able to not have to over hire (when guessing) too many drivers in the future, and simply request them on demand. They often have extra drivers sitting at the warehouse in case of 1 hour deliveries. Well, in the future, if a 1 hour package came in, they probably expect to be able to offer up a "block" (or maybe a simple 1 deliver contract), and have it accepted almost instantly.


That's what I'm noticing at Santa Monica prime warehouse. People camp out there waiting to snag blocks.

I don't like that because now my life has to revolve around amazon.


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## LLXC (Nov 22, 2016)

jade88 said:


> Damn Amazon worker jumped off company building but survived. He was unhappy...


Sucks if you try to kill yourself, but survive, and remain injured for life.


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