# How powerful would a union be?



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

If every member paid $50 anually?


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Call it a Drivers Association


----------



## iDriveNashville (Apr 10, 2015)

I don't even know that a union would be possible. Is one thing for a bunch of employees in the same factory, but coordinating independent contractors? Seems like herding cats. 

How powerful it would be takes a backseat to if it could ever happen, and I don't think it could.


----------



## Chad Bilstein (Feb 1, 2015)

Paid who?, What representation would it offer? How fast would it force Uber to raise the rates so that were more in line with what Cabbies make? When would a senority ladder start to be used? When would this union start to demand health benefits beyond what the basic crap you get from ObamaCare? Answer all that then ask yourself, why don't people use Uber anymore? 

Unions breed lazy complacint people who get a sense of entitlement. They don't care about the bigger picture, just as long as a good peice of it is handed to them even if they don't earn it. I'm in a union, not by choice and that is what it has turned into. This isn't the 1650's and 60's anymore. You can keep your Union thanks...


----------



## Nate Sullivan (Sep 15, 2014)

Chad Bilstein said:


> Paid who?, What representation would it offer? How fast would it force Uber to raise the rates so that were more in line with what Cabbies make? When would a senority ladder start to be used? When would this union start to demand health benefits beyond what the basic crap you get from ObamaCare? Answer all that then ask yourself, why don't people use Uber anymore?
> 
> Unions breed lazy complacint people who get a sense of entitlement. They don't care about the bigger picture, just as long as a good peice of it is handed to them even if they don't earn it. I'm in a union, not by choice and that is what it has turned into. This isn't the 1650's and 60's anymore. You can keep your Union thanks...


You must hate 40 hour work weeks, over time pay, sick pay, workers compensation if you hate unions. That is such a dumb thing to say


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Nate Sullivan said:


> You must hate 40 hour work weeks, over time pay, sick pay, workers compensation if you hate unions. That is such a dumb thing to say


And I especially hate that I can't hire children to work in my coal mine. Damn unions.


----------



## bronko (May 5, 2015)

iDriveNashville said:


> I don't even know that a union would be possible. Is one thing for a bunch of employees in the same factory, but coordinating independent contractors? Seems like herding cats.
> 
> How powerful it would be takes a backseat to if it could ever happen, and I don't think it could.


 Why take something that is working and try to screw it up by making it something it is not. If you don't like working with Uber quit, move on!


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

bronko said:


> Why take something that is working and try to screw it up by making it something it is not. If you don't like working with Uber quit, move on!


It's working for who? Is making less than minimum wage and driving with no insurance a dream of yours?


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Geez! All I said was how powerful would a union be followed up with call it a Drivers Association. Uber has it good with their minions of short sighted cab drivers. It's good to be Uber!


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

bscott said:


> Geez! All I said was how powerful would a union be followed up with call it a Drivers Association. Uber has it good with their minions of short sighted cab drivers. It's good to be Uber!


a union, or drivers association could possibly bring uber completely undone. Thats why even on this forum as we speak uber has its shills and plants in place, to knock down all the anti uber sentiment so uber can continue its relentless "**** you" campaign across the globe. Well i for one am glad uber got booted out of india and china, that put a big dent in travis' s bid for global domination. Who would of thought one rape case could have put such a dampener on his quest for global dominion


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

It would be good. But, in US unions are a plague, a disease. Just look at the pot holes on the road every 50 feet that aren't filled for 6 month. And if a pot hole is filled, it becomes a speed bump.


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Speaking of pot holes. Last fall, county workers did underground work at my local intersection in the suburbs. They left a 6x6 pot hole for a month. After they filled it, it still looks like there was an earthquake at that spot 6month ago.

And don't get me started what I see on daily basis in Wash DC. Roads look like a war zone.
I almost fell a sleep when I drove home on a baby butt smooth highway that belongs to the state of VA.


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Im only speaking for those in Australia, and each country for their own. Personally i think unions (from what ive seen of them) are a good thing. Thats just my opinion, and hey its out there, and im sure I'll get a lot of shtick for it, but i can cop it im a big girl.


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

suewho said:


> Im only speaking for those in Australia, and each country for their own. Personally i think unions (from what ive seen of them) are a good thing. Thats just my opinion, and hey its out there, and im sure I'll get a lot of shtick for it, but i can cop it im a big girl.


Unions in some countries do work and work well. Just look at the repair progress Japan has made last year after an earthquake.

In US, unions breed lazy people. Not all unions, but many.

Watch movie "Won't Back Down 2012". A great example of US Unions.


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

And we're still only 200 years old, which when you're trying to change the future of your country isnt all that old. If it weren't for the likes of Peter Lalor, we would be still struggling under the yolk of british control


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> Unions in some countries do work and work well. Just look at the repair progress Japan has made last year after an earthquake.
> 
> In US, unions breed lazy people. Not all unions, but many.
> 
> Watch movie "Won't Back Down 2012". A great example of US Unions.


8

i will, thanks.


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

suewho said:


> And we're still only 200 years old, which when you're trying to change the future of your country isnt all that old. If it weren't for the likes of Peter Lalor, we would be still struggling under the yolk of british control


I know very little about your country. Everything is overpriced, it was a colony of crazy people, Jacky Chen movies and Red Dog.
Your people did well for an island filled with mentally insane.
We need to find an island for Obama.

P.s.

Now that I think about it, every presidential candidate should spend a year on a island Cast Away style.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> I know very little about your country. Everything is overpriced, it was a colony of crazy people, Jacky Chen movies and Red Dog.
> Your people did well for an island filled with mentally insane.
> We need to find an island for Obama.
> 
> ...


As they say a little knowledge is dangerous.


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Awesome, you already know too much. Australia is in fact a land of crazy people, and if you can get past the crazies, theres always the stingrays, crocodiles, deadly snakes and spiders. So dont even dream about coming here. Ever


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

P.s. dont send your useless"presedential candidates" here, I'll have to set my pet goanna on to them...... oh wait..? Is that an international terrorist threat? Ill take it back


----------



## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Unions are extortionists. They force you you to cough up a piece of your salary if you want to work. Might as well work for the mob.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Chad Bilstein said:


> Paid who?, What representation would it offer? How fast would it force Uber to raise the rates so that were more in line with what Cabbies make? When would a senority ladder start to be used? When would this union start to demand health benefits beyond what the basic crap you get from ObamaCare? Answer all that then ask yourself, why don't people use Uber anymore?
> 
> Unions breed lazy complacint people who get a sense of entitlement. They don't care about the bigger picture, just as long as a good peice of it is handed to them even if they don't earn it. I'm in a union, not by choice and that is what it has turned into. This isn't the 1650's and 60's anymore. You can keep your Union thanks...


Next time you take a paid vacation, thank a union member.
Next time you see no children in a dangerous job, thank a union member.
Next time you receive medical care with employer-provided insurance, thank a union member.
Next time you receive unemployment or retirement benefits, thank a union member.
Next time you collect overtime pay, thank a union member.
Next time you enjoy a safe, comfortable work environment, thank a union member.

By the way, complacent, not complacint. And it's piece, not peice. Education is a good thing, too, and unions have promoted that.


----------



## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Next time you take a paid vacation, thank a union member.
> Next time you see no children in a dangerous job, thank a union member.
> Next time you receive medical care with employer-provided insurance, thank a union member.
> Next time you receive unemployment or retirement benefits, thank a union member.
> ...


i like that, and i thank you for saying it so well.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

bronko said:


> Why take something that is working and try to screw it up by making it something it is not. If you don't like working with Uber quit, move on!


 Please read listen and learn new member.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> I know very little about your country. Everything is overpriced, it was a colony of crazy people, Jacky Chen movies and Red Dog.
> Your people did well for an island filled with mentally insane.
> We need to find an island for Obama.
> 
> ...


 There is a saying that people get the governments they vote for. Please leave your politics out of it. Also there is a thing called the internet. Some people use it to self educate, perhaps this is beyond your scope of comprehension.


----------



## dlally929 (Apr 16, 2015)

I'd be all for it


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

The reason for my OP is that once upon a time while running a business in a completely non related industry a tenant association was started by myself and several colleagues. Reason being after years of being taken advantage of by a greedy powerful landlord, several independent business owners including myself started an association to level the playing field. This landlord had recently at the time refinanced this building, one of the most valuable in Los Angeles for hundreds of millions of dollars and you know what we did? Hired a relocation specialist. Then we advised hundreds of tenants to stop paying rent. The point is that the little guy, when multiplied in numbers with an agenda, and we'll advised and managed becomes stronger and more powerful then their masters ever were.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

bscott said:


> The reason for my OP is that once upon a time while running a business in a completely non related industry a tenant association was started by myself and several colleagues. Reason being after years of being taken advantage of by a greedy powerful landlord, several independent business owners including myself started an association to level the playing field. This landlord had recently at the time refinanced this building, one of the most valuable in Los Angeles for hundreds of millions of dollars and you know what we did? Hired a relocation specialist. Then we advised hundreds of tenants to stop paying rent. The point is that the little guy, when multiplied in numbers with an agenda, and we'll advised and managed becomes stronger and more powerful then their masters ever were.


Well played, sir. Good on ya!


----------



## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

suewho said:


> Im only speaking for those in Australia, and each country for their own. Personally i think unions (from what ive seen of them) are a good thing. Thats just my opinion, and hey its out there, and im sure I'll get a lot of shtick for it, but i can cop it im a big girl.


I"m all for it. If every one stopped driving for a day or two uber might panic.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Lidman said:


> I"m all for it. If every one stopped driving for a day or two uber might panic.


Problem is, there are a whole lot of Uber drivers who really don't mind being taken advantage of and would be horrified at the idea of standing up for themselves.


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Problem is, there are a whole lot of Uber drivers who really don't mind being taken advantage of and would be horrified at the idea of standing up for themselves.


Yes, but that's why leaders lead and followers follow


----------



## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

Just don't go online? That's the single, biggest statement you can make. Newbs will quickly figure it out too.

We are a group of contractors that agree to go online each day. I don't understand why anyone has the right to complain.


----------



## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

bscott said:


> Geez! All I said was how powerful would a union be followed up with call it a Drivers Association. Uber has it good with their minions of short sighted cab drivers. It's good to be Uber!


We have a taxi drivers "union" here in NYC.... biggest waste of time you'll ever see.



KGB7 said:


> It would be good. But, in US unions are a plague, a disease. Just look at the pot holes on the road every 50 feet that aren't filled for 6 month. And if a pot hole is filled, it becomes a speed bump.


You ain't lying... I ain't denying... don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind a union... but sure as hell they do make people lazy.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

bscott said:


> Yes, but that's why leaders lead and followers follow


You make an excellent point. However, U/L drivers are much like many other cab driver in that so many of our ranks are uneducated or come from countries in which the notion of unions and workers' rights is totally unheard of. Hell, in some backasswards countries unions and collective bargaining are outright illegal!


----------



## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

A few states have passed "Right To Work" laws which makes it illegal to force union membership as a condition of employment. I would back a union if membership was optional.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> A few states have passed "Right To Work" laws which makes it illegal to force union membership as a condition of employment. I would back a union if membership was optional.


I live in a right-to-work state. It sucks. Manual laborers cannot earn a decent wage. I'm so glad I have an advanced degree.


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You make an excellent point. However, U/L drivers are much like many other cab driver in that so many of our ranks are uneducated or come from countries in which the notion of unions and workers' rights is totally unheard of. Hell, in some backasswards countries unions and collective bargaining are outright illegal!


Agreed which is one reason I followed up my OP with calling it a "Drivers Association" on a less formal basis


----------



## ARIV005 (Mar 4, 2015)

bscott said:


> The reason for my OP is that once upon a time while running a business in a completely non related industry a tenant association was started by myself and several colleagues. Reason being after years of being taken advantage of by a greedy powerful landlord, several independent business owners including myself started an association to level the playing field. This landlord had recently at the time refinanced this building, one of the most valuable in Los Angeles for hundreds of millions of dollars and you know what we did? Hired a relocation specialist. Then we advised hundreds of tenants to stop paying rent. The point is that the little guy, when multiplied in numbers with an agenda, and we'll advised and managed becomes stronger and more powerful then their masters ever were.


Too many sheep blended in the mix..


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

unter ling said:


> Also there is a thing called the internet. Some people use it to self educate, perhaps this is beyond your scope of comprehension.


And so is being a ****** on the forums and making assumptions. If you dont understand what i said or why i said it, then simply ask.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> And so is being a ****** on the forums and making assumptions. If you dont understand what i said or why i said it, then simply ask.


 Well why did you make a such insulting comments?


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

unter ling said:


> Well why did you make a such insulting comments?


Why did you insult me in the first place?


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> Why did you insult me in the first place?


You suggested my country was colonized by crazy people, and i take offence to that


----------



## ARIV005 (Mar 4, 2015)

unter ling said:


> You suggested my country was colonized by crazy people, and i take offence to that


I personally love Australia........aaaaaan women. The accent those blondes got is mesmerizing.


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

unter ling said:


> You suggested my country was colonized by crazy people, and i take offence to that


Then you should take it up with the Queen of England. I just go by what i know from History books.

And telling me; "its beyond your scope of comprehension", is offensive to me. If im wrong, then teach me, dont insult me.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> Then you should take it up with the Queen of England. I just go by what i know from History books.
> 
> And telling me; "its beyond your scope of comprehension", is offensive to me. If im wrong, then teach me, dont insult me.


well you claim to know history so what could I possibly teach you? Would love too see the history books you read, they may suggest the world is flat. Maybe you should get some new history books.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

ARIV005 said:


> I personally love Australia........aaaaaan women. The accent those blondes got is mesmerizing.


hahaha, you have good taste my friend. oh and a great avatar you have.


----------



## ARIV005 (Mar 4, 2015)

unter ling said:


> hahaha, you have good taste my friend. oh and a great avatar you have.


Thanks, my four legged son appreciates the compliment.


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

unter ling said:


> well you claim to know history so what could I possibly teach you? Would love too see the history books you read, they may suggest the world is flat. Maybe you should get some new history books.


Have a good night dude.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> Have a good night dude.


yI am guessing its early morning there, so you are either going to bed or getting up, either way take care of yourself


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

unter ling said:


> yI am guessing its early morning there, so you are either going to bed or getting up, either way take care of yourself


Drinking a pint before going to bed, its been a long and productive 10 hour shift.

Stay safe buddy.


----------



## ARIV005 (Mar 4, 2015)

unter ling said:


> yI am guessing its early morning there, so you are either going to bed or getting up, either way take care of yourself


Hey, what's a good town/province to visit in Australia? I wanted to check it out on Google Earth.


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

ARIV005 said:


> Hey, what's a good town/province to visit in Australia? I wanted to check it out on Google Earth.


 There is a part of queensland i like called Mooloolaba. Had a few visits there and lovved it. Noosa is great too.
Sydney with its beautiful harbour, the opera house, or my part of the country, South Australia with the Barossa Valley and because its football season (AFL) the Adelaide Oval and river precinct


----------



## ARIV005 (Mar 4, 2015)

unter ling said:


> There is a part of queensland i like called Mooloolaba. Had a few visits there and lovved it. Noosa is great too.
> Sydney with its beautiful harbour, the opera house, or my part of the country, South Australia with the Barossa Valley and because its football season (AFL) the Adelaide Oval and river precinct


Great, thanks..


----------



## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Chad Bilstein said:


> Paid who?, What representation would it offer? How fast would it force Uber to raise the rates so that were more in line with what Cabbies make? When would a senority ladder start to be used? When would this union start to demand health benefits beyond what the basic crap you get from ObamaCare? Answer all that then ask yourself, why don't people use Uber anymore?
> 
> Unions breed lazy complacint people who get a sense of entitlement. They don't care about the bigger picture, just as long as a good peice of it is handed to them even if they don't earn it. I'm in a union, not by choice and that is what it has turned into. This isn't the 1650's and 60's anymore. You can keep your Union thanks...


What is "the bigger picture"? Corporate profits? Profits have boomed in the last decade, how has that worked out for you and the rest of the working class? You've become so convinced that "the world owes you nothing", that you've accidentally consented to an erosion of basic and longstanding human rights. The world's gotten worse under this anti-socialist paradigm, even as profits have boomed, tech toys proliferate, and the property/subprime debt speculators have never been happier.


----------



## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

bronko said:


> Why take something that is working and try to screw it up by making it something it is not. If you don't like working with Uber quit, move on!


Ok Travis, but this forum was created to let us communicate how you were screwing us though!


----------



## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> Ok Travis, but this forum was created to let us communicate how you were screwing us though!


YOu are da MAN!!!!


----------



## LolX (May 11, 2015)

I think this is an interesting idea in some ways. If you were a rider, would you want to take a drive in an union car with higher standards than the non-union car with lower standards/a worse driver? I think a lot of people would. 

I do not think a union works though unless you either separate union from non-union drivers by teaming with a company that isn't Uber. Lyft/Sidecar or create your own. Maybe even an option in the app that let's you choose union (higher rate) vs. non-union. The only other way is if the government almost forced Uber to use union employees which isn't going to happen. 

If a major union formed (which btw there's basically no chance in hell it does), Uber would just use non-union people who would work for significantly less than the union operators.


----------



## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

You truly do not understand control freak sociopaths.

Travis Kalanick would never allow a union of Uber drivers. If a drivers union were to exist, none of those drivers would be allowed to drive for Uber.
Travis has enough $$ to take his ball and go home.
Uber is privately owned. Travis has control. Travis is not a normal person.


----------



## alex589 (Oct 9, 2014)

RockinEZ said:


> Travis is not a normal person.


Travis is very smart guy. He is *new generation of *american capitalists with new vision how to kill broken taxi monopoly and exploit desperate and vulnerable unemployed or (underemployed) citizens like me and you. Never underestimate a guy who F.. you every day and take your money away from your children! He occupied you by thinking about our F rating untested to form some sort of resistance to this nonsense ...lol.. Uber on?

P.S. Pal, they don't pay taxes in your c*ounty* or city! I am wondering how much taxes Travis and Uber pays on Bermudas or other European offshores.

http://action.sumofus.org/a/uber-pay-taxes/2/2/

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/22/uber-cab-london-labour_n_5860272.html (sorry old post)


----------



## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

bscott said:


> Geez! All I said was how powerful would a union be followed up with call it a Drivers Association. Uber has it good with their minions of short sighted cab drivers. It's good to be Uber!


"their minions of shortsighted cab drivers." Who are they and what do they do for Travis?


----------



## Streets (Apr 22, 2015)

LolX said:


> I think this is an interesting idea in some ways. If you were a rider, would you want to take a drive in an union car with higher standards than the non-union car with lower standards/a worse driver? I think a lot of people would.
> 
> I do not think a union works though unless you either separate union from non-union drivers by teaming with a company that isn't Uber. Lyft/Sidecar or create your own. Maybe even an option in the app that let's you choose union (higher rate) vs. non-union. The only other way is if the government almost forced Uber to use union employees which isn't going to happen.
> 
> If a major union formed (which btw there's basically no chance in hell it does), Uber would just use non-union people who would work for significantly less than the union operators.


All that you've outlined is why most pressure should be put on State Legislatures to mandate TNCs either verify or provide commercial insurance that complies with local standards for taxis or limo. The low price of fares is tied to onboarding unlimited drivers who are not adequately insured (the current TNC provided insurance is not even primary coverage), and operating what would be called an illegal or ********* service. Taxi and Black car prices are what they are because of the insurance requirements.


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Huberis said:


> "their minions of shortsighted cab drivers." Who are they and what do they do for Travis?


Seriously? Maybe someone else on this forum will take the time and effort to elaborate for you

Put a fork in it!


----------



## LolX (May 11, 2015)

Streets said:


> All that you've outlined is why most pressure should be put on State Legislatures to mandate TNCs either verify or provide commercial insurance that complies with local standards for taxis or limo. The low price of fares is tied to onboarding unlimited drivers who are not adequately insured (the current TNC provided insurance is not even primary coverage), and operating what would be called an illegal or ********* service. Taxi and Black car prices are what they are because of the insurance requirements.


I agree 100%. I'm usually against govt regulation but in this case, govt regulation is the only thing that really can "save" the driver. Fares are not going up to pre-summer 2014 levels. There is just an endless supply of drivers as you said and honestly as they slide lower the qualifications for cars that supply isn't going to diminish. Judging from the math skills of certain people on here, I don't think people understand the true net gross they're getting or risk associated with the current situation.

The question to me is could they get people dumb (or desperate) enough to drive for them who pay for commercial insurance/TCP tags/whatever AND STILL drive for significantly less than a taxi? A true "losing money" situation? Again judging from this board and the math that Uber has marketed to the public, I don't think that's out of the question. The main issue would be these people putting forth the effort to get the all of that done with their car and insurance. Maybe initially they would raise rates but then continue to lower them. I do not know but I don't think it's a slam dunk that rates are significantly more if they did make everyone switch over.

But (as I go in circles), there is a much better chance at least rates would make it worthwhile to drive.


----------



## Streets (Apr 22, 2015)

LolX said:


> I agree 100%. I'm usually against govt regulation but in this case, govt regulation is the only thing that really can "save" the driver. Fares are not going up to pre-summer 2014 levels. There is just an endless supply of drivers as you said and honestly as they slide lower the qualifications for cars that supply isn't going to diminish. Judging from the math skills of certain people on here, I don't think people understand the true net gross they're getting or risk associated with the current situation.
> 
> The question to me is could they get people dumb (or desperate) enough to drive for them who pay for commercial insurance/TCP tags/whatever AND STILL drive for significantly less than a taxi? A true "losing money" situation? Again judging from this board and the math that Uber has marketed to the public, I don't think that's out of the question. The main issue would be these people putting forth the effort to get the all of that done with their car and insurance. Maybe initially they would raise rates but then continue to lower them. I do not know but I don't think it's a slam dunk that rates are significantly more if they did make everyone switch over.
> 
> But (as I go in circles), there is a much better chance at least rates would make it worthwhile to drive.


The short answer is no.

TCP and adequate insurance requires some capital that should weed out those who don't take time to consider the long costs.

The two big issues that will impact are the July 1 hybrid insurance in California (ie will any company actually offer such policy, and will it be practical in mileage allowance or cost), and the outcome of the employee/contractor lawsuit. When the courts declare Uber a transportation company rather than merely a technology company, Uber may be stuck on the issue of insurance compliance (contractor) if not cost as well (employee). If the courts declare UberX drivers employees able to recoup expenses, the current fees would be far too low; the easy solution would be to eliminate X as a Taxi service (it might have life as a food delivery operation) and return to a Black car dispatch service (pre-Lyft, if I understand the history) but possibly on subscription basis rather than per-ride commission.


----------



## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

bscott said:


> Seriously? Maybe someone else on this forum will take the time and effort to elaborate for you
> 
> Put a fork in it!


In my town, Uber is still rather new. We are no doubt the exception and not the rule, but I don't see a single ex taxi driver driving for Uber yet. They have been here since mid February. I assume that is not typical. I know for a fact that before Uber started operating every other taxi driver in town had a recruiter in his back seat at least once. I have heard of zero defections.

My guess, personally is the Travis Minions of shortsighted drivers, at this point are coming more out of the middle class or monied class, people with pretty good incomes, who happen to have a nice car and are bored with life. The are short sighted these days, because they don't need a whole lot out of it.

Have they gotten a lot of taxi drivers to defect in the past, no doubt. I'd wager a buck that is dwindling. The drivers are coming from elsewhere now.

Second bscott **** you. You have zero reason to tell a single person on here to "Put a fork in it." **** you.


----------



## ThatHoustonUBERGrind (May 1, 2015)

LAuberX said:


> It's working for who? Is making less than minimum wage and driving with no insurance a dream of yours?


I don't understand how anyone is making less than minimum wage doing UBER. If you are making so little money you, personally I agree. Quit. I'm making plenty working 12 hours max a week. You would be doing yourself and the rest of us a favor.


----------



## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

I didnt read everything however independent contractors do not have the right to unionize. Nice try though


----------



## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

TBone said:


> I didnt read everything however independent contractors do not have the right to unionize. Nice try though


But they can form an association?


----------



## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

Some of you guys are crazy. Why go through the trouble of trying to form a union or "association" to put pressure on Uber? If you want to be full time taxi cab drivers, then grow a pair and go become a full time taxi cab driver. 

Stop imagining yourselves in some grand cosmic struggle against Travis. He's not oppressing you. He's not tricking anyone. If you are making money off Uber, great. If not, stop watching your bank accounts shrink, and stop playing the victim card, and go do something else with your life.


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

Huberis said:


> Second bscott **** you. You have zero reason to tell a single person on here to "Put a fork in it." **** you.


First off, those minions of cab drivers I was referring to are synonymous with all ride share drivers, in this case Uber. It's a play on words. Maybe you got that, maybe you didn't but didn't mean to get you all riled up. After a hard day, you may want to get yourself a nice craft beer, (preferably Belgian or IPA) and settle down with some good herb to put you in a better place. Definitely not worth stroking out


----------



## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

bscott said:


> First off, those minions of cab drivers I was referring to are synonymous with all ride share drivers, in this case Uber. It's a play on words. Maybe you got that, maybe you didn't but didn't mean to get you all riled up. After a hard day, you may want to get yourself a nice craft beer, (preferably Belgian or IPA) and settle down with some good herb to put you in a better place. Definitely not worth stroking out


I suggest you update that to "gypsy" or "jitney" cab drivers. Minion soccer moms or BMW driving Trustafarian kids may also be appropriate. The days of suckering unhappy taxi drivers into the mix are mostly past.


----------



## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

KingJimmy said:


> Some of you guys are crazy. Why go through the trouble of trying to form a union or "association" to put pressure on Uber? If you want to be full time taxi cab drivers, then grow a pair and go become a full time taxi cab driver.
> 
> Stop imagining yourselves in some grand cosmic struggle against Travis. He's not oppressing you. He's not tricking anyone. If you are making money off Uber, great. If not, stop watching your bank accounts shrink, and stop playing the victim card, and go do something else with your life.


He is operating at a loss through the help of financial backing in the form of Goldman Sachs.

Uber is very much practiced in the art of deception. The list is long. You are correct, the only real solution is ro walk away from Uber. However, they should not be able to behave the way they have been. It is not good for anyone or the economy.


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

ThatHoustonUBERGrind said:


> I don't understand how anyone is making less than minimum wage doing UBER. If you are making so little money you, personally I agree. Quit. I'm making plenty working 12 hours max a week. You would be doing yourself and the rest of us a favor.


Every market for drivers is not the same as far as costs for drivers. Wow big 12 hours online..chuckling!


----------



## ThatHoustonUBERGrind (May 1, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Every market for drivers is not the same as far as costs for drivers. Wow big 12 hours online..chuckling!


I definitely agree the market is not the same as far as costs and many other factors. This is just a side job on the weekend, I have a full time job and go to school the rest of the week so my opinion is purely based on my results. Weekly payout is always 400+ and I'm good with that. I've just seen quite a few posts saying how there is no money in UBER, perhaps working this as a full time job doesn't pay much? I'm really not qualified to say.


----------



## CNJtrepreneur (Mar 25, 2015)

No unions, no f'ing way. This is a platform that's driven by the energy, creativity, and dedication of the drivers - the EXACT things that unions, by their very nature, suppress and destroy.

An association - without mandatory dues, mind you - would be a much better service to the driver community. We do need a focal point to address the regulation, insurance, and public-perception issues.


----------



## KingJimmy (May 16, 2015)

CNJtrepreneur said:


> No unions, no f'ing way. This is a platform that's driven by the energy, creativity, and dedication of the drivers - the EXACT things that unions, by their very nature, suppress and destroy.
> 
> An association - without mandatory dues, mind you - would be a much better service to the driver community. We do need a focal point to address the regulation, insurance, and public-perception issues.


Exactly. A union would probably also mean that drivers with seniority would get more pings, better hours, etc. It would squeeze out new drivers. It would divide up the city so that different drivers worked different areas.

Too many problems would be created.


----------



## bscott (Dec 4, 2014)

CNJtrepreneur said:


> No unions, no f'ing way. This is a platform that's driven by the energy, creativity, and dedication of the drivers - the EXACT things that unions, by their very nature, suppress and destroy.
> 
> An association - without mandatory dues, mind you - would be a much better service to the driver community. We do need a focal point to address the regulation, insurance, and public-perception issues.


So you want a focal point to address the regulation, insurance, and public-perception issues but don't want to pay anything for it? Typical uber driver/passenger mentality


----------



## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

bscott said:


> If every member paid $50 anually?


Taxi/FHV union, LOL. This will not happen in a million years.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> I know very little about your country. Everything is overpriced, it was a colony of crazy people, Jacky Chen movies and Red Dog.
> Your people did well for an island filled with mentally insane.
> We need to find an island for Obama.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Australia is one hell of an "island". I guess you prove the point about unions, especially teacher unions.


----------



## twenty8nine (May 18, 2015)

bscott said:


> If every member paid $50 anually?


It wouldn't be d powerful as it could be, because I won't be joining a union. I live and work in a right-to-work state, so I can choose to join the union or not. I choose to keep working instead of not being able to work over some minor squabble.


----------



## Uberamstel (Jul 30, 2014)

Wow, I never knew people could be so passionate about unions!

In my country we love unions, they are really good when chopped into little pieces and eaten raw with salted herring.


----------



## JapanFour (Mar 8, 2016)

it all depends how much money that would net for a legal counsel and if you can rally drivers towards actual goals for a legal counsel to pursue ( wage bargaining, insurance benefits etc.)

If you cant even create an organization first you wont succeed though.


----------



## Uber 1 (Oct 6, 2015)

Chad Bilstein said:


> Paid who?, What representation would it offer? How fast would it force Uber to raise the rates so that were more in line with what Cabbies make? When would a senority ladder start to be used? When would this union start to demand health benefits beyond what the basic crap you get from ObamaCare? Answer all that then ask yourself, why don't people use Uber anymore?
> 
> Unions breed lazy complacint people who get a sense of entitlement. They don't care about the bigger picture, just as long as a good peice of it is handed to them even if they don't earn it. I'm in a union, not by choice and that is what it has turned into. This isn't the 1650's and 60's anymore. You can keep your Union thanks...


As far as organizing...I don't care what they call it...Union, association, trade group etc...It's just a name...the FUNCTION is more important.

I understand the theory that such an organization could make it too "cushy" for some people in the longer term and may breed a sense of entitlement eventually, but frankly at this point I'll take that "chance" if it gets us basically fair pay...

If we were being treated "fairly" in the first place many of the threads in the forum would not even exist!

Heck, I'll go so far as to say IF it makes me complacent and entitled so be it if it means I get fair pay for hard work.....

Make it "cushy" for ME (and US) for a change....

WE DESERVE it because WE WORK for it.

If we can't get by this basic concept, we might as well just bend over and give it up to the man....

Without something like that being put in place, the rich and big companies WILL CONTINUE abusing us as workers and members of the middle class and there'd be essentially nothing we cab do about it

The "rich" and big companies have the deck stacked against us.

The poor who abuse the system (not those truly in need) take advantage of us since we have to pay to support them in the form of taxes.

WE NEED something for US...The workers...The Middle Class.

Let's do something NOW for US even IF it makes us "complacent" or "Entitled"

OK....I need to get off the soap box now ;-)

PM me if interested...otherwise just lube it up and hope it doesn't hurt too much! ;-O

Andy


----------



## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

@earth_to_jen said:


> https://uberpeople.net/threads/what...-uber-national-class-action-settlement.78297/
> 
> The union already exists. This site has a few 100,000 drivers on it. Site administrators could send a mass email to everyone. Ask all drivers interested in organizing and mass emailing regulators (the way uber did) to submit email address they want to use to robo email bomb regulators like [email protected]
> 
> ...


In a perfect world that may work... But remember if you don't work there will be 100,000 drivers which will. Best believe no one will let that surge go away. That's just the way of the taxi business. If you and 10 of your friends decide "hey I'm not gonna work I'm gonna show Uber"... When that 4x surge kicks in they will either cave and other drivers will flock to it. Major reason why yellow taxis could never unionize.. They tried a strike years ago in NYC but obviously tons of drivers still showed up because less competition.


----------



## CLTUberPissed (May 22, 2016)

It's funny to read how many people have been brainwashed by the corporate media and their cronies into believing that unions are the problem. Not having any type of representation as an Uber driver is working out so great for all of you isn't it? I guess it's easier to sit behind a keyboard and ***** all day than actually getting off your a$$ and doing something about it. The only way workers have EVER gotten collective improvements in their workplaces has been by forming a union (association etc). That's the simple truth. Right wingers love to think of unions as the devil because the politicians they support are bought by corporate America and therefore also hate unions. The reality is that most police officers have a union, same with firefighters, nurses, pilots, air traffic controllers, US border agents, and many many more.

The ONLY way you'll see things get better for Uber drivers is if everyone joins together and takes action. How powerful and successful can you be? It depends on how many drivers actually join in. Saturday nights are probably the busiest times. Think if everyone in your city logged off for 1 hour. How much revenue would Uber lose? Switch over to Lyft only for 1 hour. You think Uber will get the message? yes, they will...only if 90% or more of drivers participate though.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

bscott said:


> If every member paid $50 anually?


I don't think any union would want to come in for that meager amount of dues money.

$50 a month would be closer to a minimum rate, although for an outfit like Uber they would just take a percentage of the fares generated off the top so it would vary.

Uber might be really more open to the idea of a union, with the union keeping an eye on making sure that trips aren't taken "off the books" it could be an additional set of eyes trained on the cookie jar.


----------



## CLTUberPissed (May 22, 2016)

It's not about what amount a union would want to come in at...it's about how much it costs to run the union since all dues dollars go towards the operation of the union and member services. Realistically, you'd be looking at $20-30 per month which would be well worth it especially with this new dynamic pricing coming and which is resulting in another pay cut.


----------



## Ubersucksgas (May 31, 2016)

I worked for Teamsters before and Union can be powerful if you get good union with good representative. Basically you can negotiate very good contract and after you pass probation they would have to have VERY GOOD reason to deactivate you. In my company where I worked it was only one way to get fired, and that was if you get into a fight(which I did). Since this is a driving service. I would assume only way to get fired would be if you come drunk to work. 
Unions have pension plans which can be really good. Health plans that are affordable. etc. 
One thing that Union would change first is that if they want to deactivate somebody they would need to give him training and another chance. Option to not accept ride that is unprofitable, option not to receive pool requests etc. 
I think that union would sort everything out. I really do. Of course, UBEr would not be allowed to change rates at all during the contract.


----------



## Ubersucksgas (May 31, 2016)

CLTUberPissed said:


> It's not about what amount a union would want to come in at...it's about how much it costs to run the union since all dues dollars go towards the operation of the union and member services. Realistically, you'd be looking at $20-30 per month which would be well worth it especially with this new dynamic pricing coming and which is resulting in another pay cut.


In such a big service, I think your estimate is fair. Unions are over $50 in smaller companies. It also depends of the income, so I would not be surprised if they would charge % because there is not set hourly pay for UBER


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ubersucksass said:


> I worked for Teamsters before and Union can be powerful if you get good union with good representative. Basically you can negotiate very good contract and after you pass probation they would have to have VERY GOOD reason to deactivate you. In my company where I worked it was only one way to get fired, and that was if you get into a fight(which I did). Since this is a driving service. I would assume only way to get fired would be if you come drunk to work.
> Unions have pension plans which can be really good. Health plans that are affordable. etc.
> One thing that Union would change first is that if they want to deactivate somebody they would need to give him training and another chance. Option to not accept ride that is unprofitable, option not to receive pool requests etc.
> I think that union would sort everything out. I really do. Of course, UBEr would not be allowed to change rates at all during the contract.


You do know that unions can't dictate terms to any company, and Uber would be no exception to that rule. Of course the union would like to set rates, and make it hard to deactivate people, but those are subjects for the collective bargaining process which may be only partially successful.

I know a woman cab driver who was fired when a couple of businessmen criticized her driving on the way to the airport and she threw them out of her cab on the Parkway, so its more than just being drunk.


----------



## Ubersucksgas (May 31, 2016)

It all depends what union.
Longshoreman can do whatever they want.
Teamsters not so much as they had history of illegal activities and founders of union were in jail back in days. 
It all depends of the local.

Union cannot dictate rules but can nagotiate normal pay, reasonable benefits and so on.
HOW??? Simple-------------------UNION.
They organize all drivers and stop working( you get some pay by union) And UBER will be loosing enormous amount of money, bad reputation and so on.
That is whole point of the union, and that is why it is called union.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ubersucksass said:


> They organize all drivers and stop working( you get some pay by union) And UBER will be loosing enormous amount of money, bad reputation and so on..


Theoretically, of course, you're right. But the problem is in the details, convincing all (or even a majority)of the drivers to join and pay dues and then support a work stoppage is the riddle.


----------



## Ubersucksgas (May 31, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Theoretically, of course, you're right. But the problem is in the details, convincing all (or even a majority)of the drivers to join and pay dues and then support a work stoppage is the riddle.


Yes.
When company offered us 20c raise for next 3 years(20c each year) We rejected contract and union went back to negotiations. Everybody was " we are going to strike" " we wont take this contract" and company came after 3 weeks, gave us lunch on Friday, on Saturday they offered us same contract, and majority accepted it. So people get very scared to go on strike, or they are very cheap to buy out their vote.


----------



## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> And I especially hate that I can't hire children to work in my coal mine. Damn unions.


Unions didn't do this. Kids stopped working in factories and mines in the west when it was no longer profitable and when influential personalities like Robert Owen demanded that factory workers' children be placed in day education. (Ironically a good part of his influence since he founded socialism, founded two disastrous colonies, and a religious movement...which founded one 'new nation' revolution disaster after another, with 100s of millions of deaths outside of the wars between the socialist movements of the European and Asian nations.)


----------



## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

bscott said:


> If every member paid $50 anually?


Not very by the way.

Unions under leadership that actually cared about economics and not pretend-caring while their leadership embezzled millions expecting to abscond off to the Caribbean non-extradition states, actually had higher dues (adjusting for inflation) than a measly $50.

Christ man. They had their days' econometrcis-ists doing budget modeling and complex actuarial math for insurance-like programs, and admitted only highly-skilled workers for purpose of insuring they had people who actually had above-marginal (basically slightly > $0) labor-earnings potential.

All very funny since unions typically have none of those nowadays: mostly they have paid lobbyists and budgets for protection money, with laws regulating them whose effects INSURE they CANNOT use the means necessary to be effective (without a high probability of those running them go to jail).


----------



## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

LAuberX said:


> It's working for who? Is making less than minimum wage and driving with no insurance a dream of yours?


Lots of part-timers. People who actually know how to model a business and adjust their expectations and practices, respective to the industry it is engaged with. You know, sanely-thinking people.


----------



## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Unions served the auto industry well. Just look at how well Detroit is doing.


----------



## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

TimFromMA said:


> Unions served the auto industry well. Just look at how well Detroit is doing.


Yep.


----------



## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TimFromMA said:


> Unions served the auto industry well. Just look at how well Detroit is doing.


Carrier employees in Indy were unionized. Lot of good that did them.


----------



## MarvinOs (Aug 22, 2016)

I'm really disappointed with both uber and Lyft. And I'm sure it won't get better. Has anybody heard about Juno? They just launched in ny and they only take 10% ... I wish they were in Miami ... They would take all the drivers !


----------



## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

Unions can be powerful if they are sponsored by one of the big political parties. Traditionally, European labor unions keep close liaison with either left or center left parties. Those political parties also count on the political support from the union members during the election. When unions call nationwide strikes , those are often endorsed by their political sponsors. Moreover, European labor laws accommodate labor unions unlike the US. The power of a union/ association in the US is measured by their campaign contributions.

Any form of union without a formidable political sponsor or connection will effectively become an orphan. Uber drivers will have a monumental task of matching the financial contributions made by Uber management to the local/state and federal politicians.


----------



## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

In this case, unionizing isn't a great option. Drivers are not classified as employees, other than Seattle they have no right to collective bargaining. Not sure of how things worked out in practice in that city - in real world terms. 

The drivers would first need to fight to be classified as employees, that is a case that could be made and proven to be true within the courts. Then the drivers would need to organize and probably affiliate with already established labor unions, organizing agencies etc. They would need to come together to the degree that the TNC companies would recognize their efforts as representative of a collective membership. Then, they would go from there.

Look at Uber drivers today. They are mostly here and gone. They tend to avoid licensing and commercial insurance which would actually allow themselves to operate as true independent contractors. Much of the efforts to unionize have more to do with vague threats, attempts at shaming Uber to do tright by the drivers. It doesn't work. The suggested strikes are for a day or two of a weekend at best. The cars which would sit are not cars owned, paid for and maintained by Uber. THe drivers would be parking their own assets, they punish themselves first and foremost in the short run. 

THe questions go on and on. Drivers would do better to form associations which set standards of professionalism. UBer drivers need to raise the bar for themselves. They either need to fight to be reclassified as employees, or they need to figure out what it means to be an independent contractor and go out and make that real.

Acting like independent contractors is a problem for most Uber drivers who feel jilted. It would mean (perhaps) then end of the casual nature of the work, the ability to do almost as they please minus set their own rates. The work would become more formal.

If you fight to be unionized, first you fight to be classified employees, asat.


----------



## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

ThatHoustonUBERGrind said:


> I don't understand how anyone is making less than minimum wage doing UBER. If you are making so little money you, personally I agree. Quit. I'm making plenty working 12 hours max a week. You would be doing yourself and the rest of us a favor.


It is interesting that you are making plenty money driving 12 hours per week. Are you driving UberX? Becuase if you are driving UberX you are making NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, not a damn dime working 12 hours per week. You simply do not see your losses. Presently rates for most UberX are barely at a break-even point with expenses. If you are in fact making plenty of money, please tell the rest of us how you are doing it. I know there are drivers making money. I know drivers can make money. I even believe that Uber's business model can work* if Uber would quit screwing it up by reducing driver rates and flooding markets with drivers. *I have, for two years, listened to many drivers claims of making good money. I have observed numerous "photo-shopped" graphics of drivers pay documents posted upon the Internet demonstrative of excellent pay. But, in that 2 years, I have yet to personally meet a single driver that is truly making even a possibility of a reasonable income. And, I talk with hundreds of drivers every month. However, if you are in fact making plenty of money . . . I salute you and celebrate your ability to do so. I hope your success continues.


----------

