# What do you feel about EV’s and Ridesharing?



## MikeAW2010 (Feb 28, 2020)

I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).

I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Keep it real for a regular full timer.. get a real job rates are to low. Guys on YouTube brag about earnings...they are not that good. What happens if you crash it will rideshare take 10 months to pay for the car...
I got a harder car to replace a newer wheelchair van. Cannot rent one if someone hits me to do this crap...
To much $$ and insurance $5000 min a year you need to do private luxury car for yourself


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


I drive a 2017 Chevy Bolt for nearly 2 years rideshare in Minnesota. Winter sucks because it drains battery faster using heater ..BUT spring , summer , fall I get anywhere from 200 -270 miles range (depending opn city/highway etc)

I pay $8 a day and will get 240 miles or so average spring to fall before needing charge. You are in Texas so you should be able to get similar year round. You can pick up Chevy Bolts for cheap ..as low as 16K AND that includes a BRAND NEW BATTERY with 8 year/or 100K warranty ! (Chevrolet had a recall on the Bolts battery and LG (that makes the batteries) agreed to replace them all) I just got my new battery a moth agao and have 118K miles on the old battery,


The Bolt is a PERFECT EV for doing rideshare EXCEPT it is base on older chargings speeds..50kW ..takes an 1 1/2 to charge to near full at a DCFC charger. I do NOT recommend the Bolt to anyone living in anapt. You need to be able to own or rent a place that wil allow you to install 220V (dryer hookup) in the gargae, then you can when you are done for the day and before you go to bed you already have a full batteyr (250 miles or so) for the next day.



Here is Mine


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Until they put Solar panels all over them to help charge while driving. It is a foolish gamble.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


"Having to recharge on a 50 mile trip"... so you are talking about a Chevy Spark EV, Fiat 500e, or a BMW i3? Yeah, I would not recommend those for rideshare. LOL


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## MikeAW2010 (Feb 28, 2020)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Until they put Solar panels all over them to help charge while driving. It is a foolish gamble.


I heard that Tesla tried this but the gains in range were not significant enough to justify the extra costs and weight.

I do wonder if they could implement some sort of electromagnet circuit under the highway which turns a generator in your car while you’re driving to maintain or charge the battery… …but how would EMF of that magnitude affect the human occupants over time?




p7wang said:


> "Having to recharge on a 50 mile trip"... so you are talking about a Chevy Spark EV, Fiat 500e, or a BMW i3? Yeah, I would not recommend those for rideshare. LOL


Well, more so what I mean is let’s say that I have been Ubering for about 5 hours and I then get a request that takes me from Austin to San Antonio (it doesn’t happen very often but I do get them once in awhile)… I would either have to decline the trip and miss about $80 - $100 or accept it and recharge on the way there or on the way back if I can make it there with what I have left by the time the trip begins. With an ICE, I can tell the passenger that I will need to stop and refuel on the way there (they understand because the distance).


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

MikeAW2010 said:


> Well, more so what I mean is let’s say that I have been Ubering for about 5 hours and I then get a request that takes me from Austin to San Antonio (it doesn’t happen very often but I do get them once in awhile)… I would either have to decline the trip and miss about $80 - $100 or accept it and recharge on the way there or on the way back if I can make it there with what I have left by the time the trip begins. With an ICE, I can tell the passenger that I will need to stop and refuel on the way there (they understand because the distance).


I would decline the trip because it is not worth my time (If you take that trip, you will have to drive back with no passenger - better to stay in town where EV/hybrids excel in efficiency). EV operating/maintenance cost is substantial lower. A dollar saved is a dollar earned.

If you are worried about edge cases, you need to be driving a gas minivan.









5-Year Ownership Cost: Tesla Model 3 vs Honda Accord Hybrid


YouTuber Cleanerwatt lets us know how much cheaper it is to own an EV versus an ICE or hybrid vehicle in his latest video.




insideevs.com


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I heard that Tesla tried this but the gains in range were not significant enough to justify the extra costs and weight.
> 
> I do wonder if they could implement some sort of electromagnet circuit under the highway which turns a generator in your car while you’re driving to maintain or charge the battery… …but how would EMF of that magnitude affect the human occupants over time?
> 
> ...


 Not a problem with the newer charging technology. The Ioniq 5 , Kia Ev 6 will charge to 80% in 15 minutes... but you dont need to add 80% (200 plus miles).. You just need to add 40 miles range ...5 minutes or less . 80 miles from Austin to San Antonio .. so if you have 50 miles of range ..you just stop and fill up enough to make your drop off 5 minutes .. then on the wy back you can stop for 10 minutes add another 150 miles or so.


Yes you dont want to use a Chevy Bolt with the older charging rate which tops out at 50kW.. I am in a similar situation in Minnesota St Cloud Mn to MSP (Minneapolis/St Paul internation Airport) = 80 miles. And yes I have canceled a 3 rides over nearly 2 years because (only 60 or so miles range left ) with the BOLTS slow charging I'm not going to piss my passenger off by teling them I need to stop for half hour.

You have it nice in Texas .. these chargers are at least 250kW












Plus the slower oones if you want to just sit and have lunch and top off












Same for San Antonio Texas












You cna absolutely use something like a VW ID 4 that will charge at 135kW ...upto the Kia /Ioniq 5.



ALSO if you are not aware ..Chevrolet will have the Equinox and Blazers as EV's in 2023 (I will likely get one of those) ...witha base price of 30K (prices are flalling as th eprice of batteries continue to fall)











Estimate is 300+ miles of Range and 250kW charging..but that could change


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ok you guys talked charging. Question if a fast charger with the Tesla.. how many people in line that you must wait with massive sales.
Another question. I hear insurance is alot more mike care to comment on insurance costs


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

I don't know... Phantom drainage of the batteries seem like a bad thing.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

June132017 said:


> I don't know... Phantom drainage of the batteries seem like a bad thing.


I watched that guy's video for a while then unsubscribed. He was railing against hybrids claiming it costs $10K to replace a hybrid battery pack or something like that for the longest time then 10 years later, finally turned around. I guess he's on a rampage against EVs now. He is a mechanic and an old laggared afraid of change, IMHO. Would you take advice of LED light bulb from a handyman whose knowledge extends to replacing the incandescent light bulb? LOL

Do you know you get 'phantom drain' via evaporation of gasoline? No one talks about that. LOL LOL


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

bobby747 said:


> Ok you guys talked charging. Question if a fast charger with the Tesla.. how many people in line that you must wait with massive sales.
> Another question. I hear insurance is alot more mike care to comment on insurance costs


Usually no lines.. and insurance is less expensive. I pay $70 a month on my Bolt and that INCLUDES the rideshare rider.

Keep in mind on a EV there is less than 10 moving parts compared to 400 on a ICE . Most EV's you get 8-10 year warranty on the battery so really not much to insure on them


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

June132017 said:


> I don't know... Phantom drainage of the batteries seem like a bad thing.


You know he owns a Tesla now lol ...funny guy, he never really knew anything about EV's but always railed on them. Once he educate himself he is transitioning over to reality


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

well scotty makes $400,000 a year from youtube..i hear telsa batterys are $18,000..so if crushed in accident 18k ins must pay just for battery..that great ins price.

in collision battery plus all body parts


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

_The current list price of a Bolt EV HV battery pack is $15,734.29 and the part number is 24285978.. so your ins is dirt cheap..dont make sense _


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

bobby747 said:


> well scotty makes $400,000 a year from youtube..i hear telsa batterys are $18,000..so if crushed in accident 18k ins must pay just for battery..that great ins price.
> 
> in collision battery plus all body parts


So a 'do what I say, not what I do' kinda guy. Yeah, keep taking advice from that kind of person, what can go wrong? LOL


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

p7wang said:


> So a 'do what I say, not what I do' kinda guy. Yeah, keep taking advice from that kind of person, what can go wrong? LOL


How long do you suppose it will take California to ban them once they are found to be starting forest fires?


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

p7wang said:


> So a 'do what I say, not what I do' kinda guy. Yeah, keep taking advice from that kind of person, what can go wrong? LOL


He is so cheap. Says online he never brought a new car. I guess he will take all his cash with him


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I heard that Tesla tried this but the gains in range were not significant enough to justify the extra costs and weight.
> 
> I do wonder if they could implement some sort of electromagnet circuit under the highway which turns a generator in your car while you’re driving to maintain or charge the battery… …but how would EMF of that magnitude affect the human occupants over time?
> 
> ...


Nicholai Tesla planned to " Broadcast" electricity just like radio waves.

The Capitalists saw no profit in that.

So it NEVER HAPPENED !


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

bobby747 said:


> _The current list price of a Bolt EV HV battery pack is $15,734.29 and the part number is 24285978.. so your ins is dirt cheap..dont make sense _


*All the EV's have 8-10 warranties on the Batteries.. In fact like I said I just had my batery replaced by GM because of a recall on them.. the new battery ALSO has a 8-10 year warranty ! So Yes it makes all kinds of sense... Most insurance is for Body shop repairs , the Bolt is a mid size hatchback with a large replacement parts supply that make the parts relatively inepensive.*

Thats one of the main reasons I wouldnt own a Tesla though..is that Musk does not have a large replacement parts warehouses of parts .. they kind of make on the go ..which makes replacing even basic parts like a bumper takes weeks and is expensive so insuring the tesla is more expensive ...but fairly inexpensive if you insure through Tesla..


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

dauction said:


> *All the EV's have 8-10 warranties on the Batteries.. In fact like I said I just had my batery replaced by GM because of a recall on them.. the new battery ALSO has a 8-10 year warranty !*


But But what if Russia Russia Russia sets of an EMP in America?


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Also you save alot of money using electricity instead of gasoline(charging at home)... even a Prius is no match for an ev.


It costs me about $8 to go 250 miles.. 64 kW battery x 13 cents kW (in Minnesota) at home = $8.32 

a Prius ,50 miles per gallon = 250 miles / 50 = 5 Gallons of Gas x $3.50 = $17.50


a small SUV MAYBE 25 miles per gallon ..250 / 25 = 10 gallons of Gas x $3.50 = $35.00 a day ..


Driving Uber/Lyft you guys now you are spending anywhere from $300-$600 a month or more.. I spend less than $150


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

TX Uber Ant said:


> But But what if Russia Russia Russia sets of an EMP in America?


Then the Gas Pumps wont work


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I do wonder if they could implement some sort of electromagnet circuit under the highway which turns a generator in your car while you’re driving to maintain or charge the battery… …but how would EMF of that magnitude affect the human occupants over time?


The electricity creates a magnetic field which loses power by the cube of the distance, meaning massive power loss and inefficiency. 



dauction said:


> You know he owns a Tesla now lol ...funny guy, he never really knew anything about EV's but always railed on them. Once he educate himself he is transitioning over to reality


Scotty reviewed a customer's car (he says "her car" repeatedly throughout the video), like other cars he works on he doesn't own it. He's remained consistent on reporting accurate vehicle information in the video, both good and bad. He says at 8min 41 seconds, "Now me, I'm a cheepskate, I'll continue riding around in my $300 Cecelia." His wife drives a $3,000 Lexus (9 min 6 seconds).

Yes, he makes a fair amount of money off YouTube, but he didn't make money from videos for years before that as his viewership wasn't that big, so he has a large investment in producing videos without a huge average income (he put in a lot of hours and still does). In one video he detailed some of the expenses, like three new embroidered shirts per video, and all the cameras, mics, and editing equipment. (As an aside, one -just one- Rhode microphone can cost $2000.)

Why not drive a fancy car? If he drove an Audi, Porche, Land Rover, whatever, and lived in a mansion, he wouldn't have money. That's what many don't realize about sports players or musicians that buy mansions and then run out of money, the income stream of today isn't guaranteed tomorrow. He has money because he doesn't live above his means.

Regardless, EVs are more costly to drive than gassers, and given lithium prices are skyrocketing that probably won't change in the next seven years. Lithium, like most any other mineral, isn't overly abundant, so as more of it is mined the cost will continue to rise. As much as I like Elon Musk's philosophy and reasoning on why he's making electric cars, they're still not built well--a Chevy Bolt is about the same quality (in my opinion).

Those Bolts though--that is a deal! I love electric vehicles and if the battery wouldn't sit for half the year aging I'd buy one. (Driving an EV in Wisconsin in winter really runs down the battery...)


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


I couldn't see myself plopping down more than $10k for a car to do Uber with.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Schmanthony said:


> I couldn't see myself plopping down more than $10k for a car to do Uber with.


Would you spend $20K for a used Chevy Bolt (now getting new battery pack) which will save you $20K in 'fuel cost' plus more in maintenance costs (brake, oil change, etc) over 200k miles?

This is an example of Tesla.




__





It costs shockingly little to run a Tesla for 300,000 miles


The first Tesla Model S was released in 2012, so it’s still young by used-car standards. We don’t know what a junker Model S looks …




bgr.com


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

dauction said:


> *All the EV's have 8-10 warranties on the Batteries.. In fact like I said I just had my batery replaced by GM because of a recall on them.. the new battery ALSO has a 8-10 year warranty ! So Yes it makes all kinds of sense... Most insurance is for Body shop repairs , the Bolt is a mid size hatchback with a large replacement parts supply that make the parts relatively inepensive.*
> 
> Thats one of the main reasons I wouldnt own a Tesla though..is that Musk does not have a large replacement parts warehouses of parts .. they kind of make on the go ..which makes replacing even basic parts like a bumper takes weeks and is expensive so insuring the tesla is more expensive ...but fairly inexpensive if you insure through Tesla..
> 
> View attachment 650447


I have a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid.
Well,my son has it now.
Previous Govt. Vehicle purchased @ auction $3,700.00 80,000 miles.
Have had it over 3 years over 100,000 miles now .
Vehicle is 16 years old, batteries still doing well.

I'm sure the new batteries are better.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

dauction said:


> *All the EV's have 8-10 warranties on the Batteries.. In fact like I said I just had my batery replaced by GM because of a recall on them.. the new battery ALSO has a 8-10 year warranty ! So Yes it makes all kinds of sense... Most insurance is for Body shop repairs , the Bolt is a mid size hatchback with a large replacement parts supply that make the parts relatively inepensive.*
> 
> Thats one of the main reasons I wouldnt own a Tesla though..is that Musk does not have a large replacement parts warehouses of parts .. they kind of make on the go ..which makes replacing even basic parts like a bumper takes weeks and is expensive so insuring the tesla is more expensive ...but fairly inexpensive if you insure through Tesla..
> 
> View attachment 650447


Well nothing personal. Just facts. Gm was bailed out many times. GM junk was made many years. Biden give GM buyers tax breaks and the UAW's. But destruction of the big 3 truck building and sales due to cost of fuel. With trumps lower cost gas. It made American's be American's. By driving what we want.
Bolts are nice.
Leaf's suck imho.
Elon was way ahead of all car companies. Sure hi costs. Parts available.. but how many did he sell?? Alot.but the Tesla 3 front bumper is but face ugly


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> The electricity creates a magnetic field which loses power by the cube of the distance, meaning massive power loss and inefficiency.
> 
> 
> Scotty reviewed a customer's car (he says "her car" repeatedly throughout the video), like other cars he works on he doesn't own it. He's remained consistent on reporting accurate vehicle information in the video, both good and bad. He says at 8min 41 seconds, "Now me, I'm a cheepskate, I'll continue riding around in my $300 Cecelia." His wife drives a $3,000 Lexus (9 min 6 seconds).
> ...


Scotty's you tube earns north of $400,000 I a year . Fact..I may be off some but not much


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

dauction said:


> *All the EV's have 8-10 warranties on the Batteries.. In fact like I said I just had my batery replaced by GM because of a recall on them.. the new battery ALSO has a 8-10 year warranty ! So Yes it makes all kinds of sense... Most insurance is for Body shop repairs , the Bolt is a mid size hatchback with a large replacement parts supply that make the parts relatively inepensive.*







__





Tesla co-founder and former CTO JB Straubel says EV batteries should last about 15 years


JB Straubel, Tesla’s longtime Chief Technology Officer, has given some insight into how long he believes electric vehicle batteries should...




electrek.co


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

dauction said:


> *All the EV's have 8-10 warranties on the Batteries.. In fact like I said I just had my batery replaced by GM because of a recall on them.. the new battery ALSO has a 8-10 year warranty ! So Yes it makes all kinds of sense... Most insurance is for Body shop repairs , the Bolt is a mid size hatchback with a large replacement parts supply that make the parts relatively inepensive.*
> 
> Thats one of the main reasons I wouldnt own a Tesla though..is that Musk does not have a large replacement parts warehouses of parts .. they kind of make on the go ..which makes replacing even basic parts like a bumper takes weeks and is expensive so insuring the tesla is more expensive ...but fairly inexpensive if you insure through Tesla..
> 
> View attachment 650447


Parts are definitely an issue with tesla, there can be a long wait in the shop and because of the way they are constructed they can incur high collision repair costs. The chart for insurance is a fiction though, I pay roughly $750 a year through USAA for my tesla 3 lr.
I would never let a paxhole near my car, it's for my enjoyment but I could see where it would work well for rideshare and where it wouldn't. 
4 cents a mile for electricity, no oil changes, fewer moving parts and a great ride, all positive and very cheap cost per mile. 
Range, capped at 275 miles a day or need a 15 minutes top off at a supercharger, high cost of car, speed at which pax will tear up the back seat, expensive replacement parts like door handles would make it a challenge to make money unless you were doing 75 to 100 k miles a year.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

I have an interesting "blog" going in the dungeon about my Prius.... Cleaning is non stop


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

dauction said:


> Winter sucks because it drains battery faster using heater


Just an FYI, it's not just the heater. Actually, the heater is only a small part of the issue.

The battery can't supply as much electricity when it's cold.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Just an FYI, it's not just the heater. Actually, the heater is only a small part of the issue.
> 
> The battery can't supply as much electricity when it's cold.



A 60kW battery accepts 60kW of electrons no matter the temperature. It does take longer to charge the battery though..can be twice as long. Charging at home it isnt an issue because you just plug it at night and it's ready ful by morning.

The HEATER is you MAIN draw of electricity from the battery. upto 7,500 watts be hour. I have installed a 1000 watt PTC heater in my Bolt .. so thats the max power ever..big gains in range!


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Here's the way I look at it, in short.

The cheapest EV on the US market costs about $30k. The cheapest compact gasoline gar is about $15k. 

Which means that even at current gas prices, you can buy about 4000 gallons of gas with the price difference. Which (at 30 mpg) equates to around 120,000 miles of driving.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> Here's the way I look at it, in short.
> 
> The cheapest EV on the US market costs about $30k. The cheapest compact gasoline gar is about $15k.
> 
> Which means that even at current gas prices, you can buy about 4000 gallons of gas with the price difference. Which (at 30 mpg) equates to around 120,000 miles of driving.



yuck .. not driving around in a Chevy Spark that barely has enough power to get one person moving let only 4. 0-60 in 20 seconds and rattles like a 2 year old  You cant fit 4 rideshare passengers in a Spark


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

reg barclay said:


> Here's the way I look at it, in short.
> 
> The cheapest EV on the US market costs about $30k. The cheapest compact gasoline gar is about $15k.
> 
> Which means that even at current gas prices, you can buy about 4000 gallons of gas with the price difference. Which (at 30 mpg) equates to around 120,000 miles of driving.


Nothing wrong with your approach, I would just add that you'll probably save 2-3K on maintenance over those and I don't think you have a chance right now of finding a $15K new car.

I don't think you see a real advantage until you have put 200K miles or so on an EV. Even then, the best strategy for minimizing cost per mile is to buy an old cheap beater (like a prius or corolla) that's mechanically sound, drive it till it dies or ages out and then repeat. 

I own a Tesla and there is no way I would let a paxhole ride in it. It's purely for my fun and enjoyment.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

p7wang said:


> Would you spend $20K for a used Chevy Bolt (now getting new battery pack) which will save you $20K in 'fuel cost' plus more in maintenance costs (brake, oil change, etc) over 200k miles?
> 
> This is an example of Tesla.
> 
> ...


A quick scan of the article reveals that they didn't include the cost of electricity...

Here's the relevant excerpt:

“During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was headlight damage due to driving through deep water."

So how is 10,492 the combined maintenance and fuel costs when the scheduled maintenance and headlight damage equaled that amount?

CRITICAL THINKING PEOPLE... READING COMPREHENSION


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> A quick scan of the article reveals that they didn't include the cost of electricity...
> 
> Here's the relevant excerpt:
> 
> ...


I agree, esp those who do not understand.
Did they have free super charging? Hm...

You should stick to gas cars forever, LOL.


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## The Last Breed (10 mo ago)

Get a Prius and call it the day


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

dauction said:


> A 60kW battery accepts 60kW of electrons no matter the temperature.


You'd better have a source for that. Cause it's not true.

Yeah okay, maybe you can put that much electricity into it. But you're not going to get that much back out. Seriously.


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## wtholt (10 mo ago)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


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## Tdawg487 (Jan 5, 2020)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


I drive a newer model s that I bought a few months ago had a 7 series bmw before and just started doing full time 3 months ago after quiting my real job with multiple strokes. I love it I won’t ever go back but you have to have super chargers in your area. No way I could do it with another ev without those. I get around 345 range and still need super charger most days. I am averaging about 800-1200 a week working avout 35 hours only durring the day but the Miami market that will die in the next month. I have spent very little on electricity and no oil changes no transmission fluids only every 2 year service and tires that’s about it even brakes last 100k miles.


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## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


EV vehicles that are worth their salt are decades away. 300-mile battery life is not acceptable to me for any reason, rideshare or not. I get it that there are those that think the world is on the verge of burning up because of globaloney warming (absurd on its face). Do these hand-wringers not realize that EV charging is delivered through oil and coal-fired power plants? Not wind, not solar, but renewable petroleum products.
Gas is high (100% bumbling Biden's fault) but that will not make me crave any EV. Doing ridesharing as a real job is a pipe dream.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Markisonit said:


> EV vehicles that are worth their salt are decades away. 300-mile battery life is not acceptable to me for any reason, rideshare or not. I get it that there are those that think the world is on the verge of burning up because of globaloney warming (absurd on its face). Do these hand-wringers not realize that EV charging is delivered through oil and coal-fired power plants? Not wind, not solar, but renewable petroleum products.
> Gas is high (100% bumbling Biden's fault) but that will not make me crave any EV. Doing ridesharing as a real job is a pipe dream.


Fortunately you are not the only consumer in the world. For the rest of the world, EV sales seem to be reaching critical mass. It's sad that the scientifically challenged members of our society don't understand basic concepts like efficiency before they go spouting off like their opinion is meaningful. Even if the electricity you are charging your EV with is from NONrenewable fossil fuel, it's still much more efficient to generate the electricity to charge the vehicle rather than burn it in an ICE engine. But don't look now, more and more power is being generated by solar etc... One day we might have a more robust, distributed network of power generation and distribution if many houses have solar. But don't you trouble yourself with any crazy notion of progress or change in the world.


----------



## macmusic2020 (Aug 28, 2020)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


I finally decided to buy a Honda hybrid. It’s not a plug-in hybrid so I never have to worry about having to stop what I’m doing to recharge the battery. Still use gas...but a LOT LESS gas. Previously I was filling up my jeep Cherokee gas tank five times a week, about $175 every week which of course would be much worse right now. This car I only need to fill the gas tank twice a week. The car has been averaging 53 to 55 miles per gallon but it has gone up into the 60s and even the low 70s also. But mostly it stays around 53 to 55 MPG.


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## paraleaglenm (10 mo ago)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


EV's are strong for in-town traffic. Long trips at highway speeds are not their strength. If you don't have at-home overnight charging, charging stations will cost you about the same per mile as gas. However, you will also save on brake jobs and oil changes. If you drive a lot, that can save you about $100/month or more over an ICE. What most rideshare drivers ignore is depreciation. If you put 100K miles on an EV in one year, how much resale value will it have over a same year-100K less mile car? The battery is what gets used up . . . and if you put on 100K, that is 1/3rd its total life, so expect a $20,000 loss of value every 100K miles ( a 200K Model S can be priced at $34K, 50% less than a 100K car). It costs $15,000 to replace the battery, and with the way the supply chain has been going and increased demand for EV's . . . think more of $20,000. So, driving a Tesla two years is going to 'cost' you about $60,000 in depreciation and battery replacement. At 58 cents/mile net, you will drive 250,000 miles for Uber (Uber only pays 'loaded' miles) just to cover replacement cost and depreciation. So, driving 40 hours a week for two years will net you ZERO income.


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## supermaltese (Sep 6, 2016)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


Parts for EVs are higher than parts for more traditional choices. Tesla, for example, doesn't even have any parts at local repair shops so all your repair needs must go to the dealer. For someone like me, this is a major drawback since I've always permormed some of the repairs myself such as changing an alternator, fan belt, coolant hose, and even the radiator. Not being able to acquire those parts and replace them myself is not acceptable. Uber does not pay enough to fork over a premium for repairs!


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## paraleaglenm (10 mo ago)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Fortunately you are not the only consumer in the world. For the rest of the world, EV sales seem to be reaching critical mass. It's sad that the scientifically challenged members of our society don't understand basic concepts like efficiency before they go spouting off like their opinion is meaningful. Even if the electricity you are charging your EV with is from NONrenewable fossil fuel, it's still much more efficient to generate the electricity to charge the vehicle rather than burn it in an ICE engine. But don't look now, more and more power is being generated by solar etc... One day we might have a more robust, distributed network of power generation and distribution if many houses have solar. But don't you trouble yourself with any crazy notion of progress or change in the world.


Solar and Wind are less than 7% of the grid, Solar less than 2%. So, even with artificial market pressure by the Biden Gas Shortages, it is going to take a looooong time for solar to compete. 
The only true beneficiaries of EV's are home owners who can trickle charge at low rates overnight, or have the $10K to spend on a home solar/battery system to be off-the-grid. 
Consider the fact that only 50% of Americans live in stand-alone houses, that cuts out half the population from overnight trickle charging. Delete more for those who don't have a garage, or don't use it for their car(s) . . . and then delete those who can't afford to spend $60,000 for an EV (pretty much a good used entry price). So, ICE cars have a long future ahead of them. 
Almost 50% of energy used to 'fuel' EV's is from Natural Gas and Coal. 
Then, consider all this CO2 emergency nonsense. CO2 production has increased sharply since 1900, but the atmospheric percentage has remained fairly level due to plants being able to use it as, well, plant food! The increase from the historic baseline of 284ppm has increased to 410ppm, which is about 1/50,000th of 1% per year over the past 50-years. Scientifically, and compared to H2O (10X the GHG CO2 is, and a product of hydrocarbon energy, not coal though) and solar cycles, CO2 is insignificant (see all those zero's after the decimal point?).


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> You'd better have a source for that. Cause it's not true.
> 
> Yeah okay, maybe you can put that much electricity into it. But you're not going to get that much back out. Seriously.


@dauction 

*How to store lithium based batteries*
Lithium based batteries require extra attention as improper storage can cause units to overheat and potentially catch fire in a process known as thermal runaway. Many types also have both the negative and positive terminals on the same side making it easy to accidentally short out the unit on metal shelving if they are left uncovered.


The ideal temperature for storage is 50°F (10°C).
The higher the temperature the faster the battery will self-discharge but this is not an issue in itself so long as the correct State of Charge is maintained (see below). Temperatures below freezing will not damage Lithium batteries as they contain no water but they should be bought to above freezing before charging or usage to avoid damage.
*Humidity*

The ideal storage humidity is 50%
The main issue with humidity is that condensation can build up between the terminals and in very wet conditions cause a short which could cause the battery to overheat and even catch fire. As an extra safety precaution the terminals should always have separate covers.


All batteries gradually self-discharge even when in storage. A Lithium Ion battery will self-discharge 5% in the first 24 hours after being charged and then 1-2% per month. If the battery is fitted with a safety circuit (and most are) this will contribute to a further 3% self-discharge per month.

Lithium batteries should be kept at around 40-50% State of Charge (SoC) to be ready for immediate use – this is approximately 3.8 Volts per cell – while tests have suggested that if this battery type is kept fully charged the recoverable capacity is reduced over time. The voltage of each cell should not fall below 2 volts as at this point the anode starts dissolving causing copper shunts to form which will cause an irreversible loss of capacity. Similarly lithium based batteries can be damaged by over charging which causes the cathode to decompose.

When checking the voltage make sure the battery has not been charged or discharged recently, is at room temperature throughout and has been in a vibration free environment. The best way to do this is to rest the battery at room temperature for at least an hour and a half.







How to store lithium based batteries


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> You'd better have a source for that. Cause it's not true.
> 
> Yeah okay, maybe you can put that much electricity into it. But you're not going to get that much back out. Seriously.


Geez whats wrong with you peopel that refuse to listen...? a 60kWh battery accepts 60kW of electrons whether it is 20 below or 100 above..PERIOD


Yes of course you lose some range witha cold battery..around 10% ..the SAME as in a internal combustion engine..you alwatys get less range in BOTH.


The ISSUE is the HEATER in most EV's ..thats where you lose you the most range ..PERIOD


*The automobile club tested the cars at 20 degrees and 95 degrees, comparing the range to when they were tested at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, according to a report on the study.*
*
At 20 degrees, the average driving range fell by 12 percent when the car’s cabin heater was not used. When the heater was turned on, the range dropped by 41 percent, AAA said.*










AAA: Cold weather can cut electric car range over 40 percent


DETROIT (AP) — Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40 percent when interior heaters are used, a new study found. The study of five electric vehicles by AAA also found that high temperatures can cut into battery range, but not nearly as...




apnews.com






AND ..
*How Well Do Electric Car Heaters Work?*
22 December 2020 by Tristan Perry
In today’s piece, we’re exploring the world of electric car heaters and their efficacy. In particular, we’ll be looking into the seemingly conflicting issue of reduced battery performance in cold weather versus the increased need for in-car heating in these conditions. Before starting with some key background info, the short answer here is…
*Using heaters on electric cars can cause range to drop by 20-30%, however the use of effective heat pumps is starting to solve this problem and deliver warmer cabins for less range penalty.*





Which is why I installed a 1000 watt PTC heater..so I never use more than 1000 watts compared to "upto" 7,500 watts using the Bolts heater.



That said ..this is an isue that Southern States dont need to woory about but if you live in the North and upper Midwest then you need to calculate winter range los (due to heater ) IF you are making long distance trips. running around town isnt a big deal.


The newer evs with heat pumps helps but they still have to get the averall winter loss to around 15% IMO for people in the North to be comfortable ...


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

paraleaglenm said:


> . and then delete those who can't afford to spend $60,000 for an EV (pretty much a good used entry price). ).



The Nissan Leaf is 27k ,











Chevy Bolt starts at 31K











Mazda MX 30 33K










Kona Electric 34K













Kia EV 6 40K ... 800 Volt charging system .. add 200 miles of range in 10 minutes












VW ID 4 42K













Ford Mustand Mach E











Lets not forget the hottest EV right now..the Hyundai Ioniq 5 ...base is 43K. Like the Kia EV 6 also has 800 Volt Charging..means you cna add a couple hundred miles in 10 minutes













on and on and on..


AND upto $7,500 tax credit


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

BTW.. Fisker Ocean ..very nice looking crossover base will be in the 30K range


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

dauction said:


> Geez whats wrong with you peopel that refuse to listen...? a 60kWh battery accepts 60kW of electrons whether it is 20 below or 100 above..PERIOD--
> 
> So are we calling Ohms law of resistance obsolete these days because the salesman told you so?
> 
> ...


----------



## Logistics12 (Jun 22, 2018)

Exa


MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


Exactly! I had the pleasure/displeasure to test an EV for a company I worked for at the time. They had me keep it for a week. That week, my hair turned gray and I think any owner of an EV knows why. I worked the late shift and the location I reported to was an hour and a half from where my home was. This location was also out in the middle of nowhere. I went from 👩🏼 to 👵🏼 before that week was out. Had to find a charging station late one night. Have no idea how I didn't wind up in the ER with high anxiety.

For in-town driving, it's fine but will these rideshare companies be willing to tweak the app to accomodate the needs of the EV drivers? Does it even make sense to do so?


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## Logistics12 (Jun 22, 2018)

MikeAW2010 said:


> I’ve been a bit curious on this. Do you think that EV’s will make a strong welcoming into the Rideshare market? I personally am a bit leery on them, even with high fuel prices. If for example I am midway through the day and I have to recharge while I’m not near home or I would have to stop earlier than I would normally stop to recharge either at home or a supercharger, or I get a long trip request (no passenger in their right mind is going to be willing to wait 30 minutes while you recharge and on 50 mile + rides I have had to refuel midway to their destination).
> 
> I personally feel that for the affordable models, the range is still way too short and I couldn’t see myself plopping down $50k on a Tesla to do Uber with…


Exactly! I had the pleasure/displeasure to test an EV for a company I worked for at the time. They had me keep it for a week. That week, my hair turned gray and I think any owner of an EV knows why. I worked the late shift and the location I reported to was an hour and a half from where my home was. This location was also out in the middle of nowhere. I went from 👩🏼 to 👵🏼 before that week was out. Had to find a charging station late one night. Have no idea how I didn't wind up in the ER with high anxiety.

For in-town driving, it's fine but will these rideshare companies be willing to tweak the app to accomodate the needs of the EV drivers? Does it even make sense to do so?


----------



## Gary Jones (Oct 24, 2016)

bobby747 said:


> Keep it real for a regular full timer.. get a real job rates are to low. Guys on YouTube brag about earnings...they are not that good. What happens if you crash it will rideshare take 10 months to pay for the car...
> I got a harder car to replace a newer wheelchair van. Cannot rent one if someone hits me to do this crap...
> To much $$ and insurance $5000 min a year you need to do private luxury car for yourself


I have no idea where you got that 10 months to get paid by an insurance company mine took less than a month.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

paraleaglenm said:


> Solar and Wind are less than 7% of the grid, Solar less than 2%. So, even with artificial market pressure by the Biden Gas Shortages, it is going to take a looooong time for solar to compete.
> The only true beneficiaries of EV's are home owners who can trickle charge at low rates overnight, or have the $10K to spend on a home solar/battery system to be off-the-grid.
> Consider the fact that only 50% of Americans live in stand-alone houses, that cuts out half the population from overnight trickle charging. Delete more for those who don't have a garage, or don't use it for their car(s) . . . and then delete those who can't afford to spend $60,000 for an EV (pretty much a good used entry price). So, ICE cars have a long future ahead of them.
> Almost 50% of energy used to 'fuel' EV's is from Natural Gas and Coal.
> Then, consider all this CO2 emergency nonsense. CO2 production has increased sharply since 1900, but the atmospheric percentage has remained fairly level due to plants being able to use it as, well, plant food! The increase from the historic baseline of 284ppm has increased to 410ppm, which is about 1/50,000th of 1% per year over the past 50-years. Scientifically, and compared to H2O (10X the GHG CO2 is, and a product of hydrocarbon energy, not coal though) and solar cycles, CO2 is insignificant (see all those zero's after the decimal point?).


1) Yes, you've identified the segment of the population who will most benefit from EV's in the present environment, homeowners. You don't need to have a garage to charge your car though and some apartment complexes have chargers for their residents to use, becoming more and more common. But this is not an argument to say EV's shouldn't happen, it just means it's not the right solution for everyone. I don't think that any rational person is suggesting that EV's are currently the answer for everyone, they clearly are not. I could just as easily make an argument that we shouldn't have motorcycles because of the small number of people they appeal to.
2) Your cost estimate for an EV is way high. Sure, a Tesla is easily 60K but there are lots of other lower cost options. 
3) Your clear political leanings not withstanding, as I mentioned in my previous post even if the electricity for EV's is from a fossil fuel source, it is still much more efficient and less polluting to use that electricity in an EV than burn gas in an ICE, probably half as polluting.
4) Your language betrays your bias and blinders regarding C02. You choose to look at the math from a parts of the whole approach rather than consider that going from 284PPM to 410PPM which is a roughly 50% increase so that you can poo poo the numbers as being small. If we were talking about poisons then parts per million is important. Based on the data collected it would appear that a 50% increase in CO2 as well as other pollutants is having an effect on global climate, for example ice cap coverage and sea levels. You can deny or ridicule all you want but that is at the expense of logical thought and reason.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

p7wang said:


> I agree, esp those who do not understand.
> Did they have free super charging? Hm...
> 
> You should stick to gas cars forever, LOL.


I'm not saying stick to gas cars forever... I'm saying if you're going to compare, you have to pay for electricity...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> For the rest of the world, EV sales seem to be reaching critical mass.


Perhaps you're not aware of the percentage that fully electric vehicles are of the total vehicle sales in the U.S.

Go look it up. I'll wait.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> I'm not saying stick to gas cars forever... I'm saying if you're going to compare, you have to pay for electricity...


Looks like you are still having problem with reading comprehension.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

p7wang said:


> Looks like you are still having problem with reading comprehension.


no, we both agree that the article didn’t account for cost of electricity. I think you took my comment to mean that you yourself weren’t accounting for it. I meant that the article was missing that. I think we are on the same page


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## jlittle (Aug 17, 2018)

Yet another Bolt EV driver in California; Since 2018. For sure, this thing cost me an unreasonable amount more than a Civic up front. Seeing $6 gas makes me glad I bought before EVs became hard to find.

I once heard the following:
Oil and gas are commodities subject to depletion; the more we use, the price goes up.
Solar and Batteries are technologies, the more we produce and use the price goes down.
We can always recover the battery and its elements, but our investment in Oil goes up in smoke!
This sold me on getting an EV.

I went with Chevrolet, not wanting to spend $40-50K in 2018 on a premium priced car manufactured in a Fremont, CA circus tent.

Indeed, showing up in a Tesla is quite an ostentatious show of wealth for a job that pays $20/hr. I imagine there is a bit of impracticality in having it as a rideshare vehicle; I would hate having to explain how door handles work for every first time Tesla passenger getting in a Model 3. Then upon exiting, also explaining “the handle on the door, that looks like a door handle, opens the door like one, should NOT BE USED AS ONE. The button to open the door is the little dot.” Making pax feel defeated and dumb is not a good way to get tips, even if true.

I also believe we should fundamentally have the right to repair our things how we see fit, at a price we are comfortable with; which is not an experience that one can expect to go well with a Tesla. I may not exercise this right, but I reserve it.

I’ll be honest, though likely to be ridiculed for saying it, I’m on the autism spectrum - with pronounced executive function disorder. I am deficient to downright terrible with managing my finances, showing up on time for appointments/life in general, so as many layers I can peel back on managing expensive complex things (like unexpected car maintenance) is worth the cost to me.

Maintenance? Factoring the the cost savings in to the upfront purchase price was wise for me. I have driven 55K hard (San Francisco, City and County) miles, up and down steep hills in this 3600 pounds of hatchback - it’s quite a bit of a surprise looking at what has / has not been done.

I haven’t needed new brakes, rotors. They look new. Tires, yes, have replaced a few though I have a lead foot. Who hasn’t ever though?

GM/LG say I need a new battery for free, with a new 8/year warranty. Ok, sure.

I did refill my windshield washer fluid a few times (water, doesn’t go below 35° here, doesn’t go below 60° in my garage.)

So, there is no:

distributor cap.
spark plugs/spark plug wires.
required smog tests.
Wasting time at auto mechanics/gas stations
need to check and inspect the timing belt.
oil changes (or aspirationally hoping that someday having the financial runway to prioritize proper 3K oil changes.)
blown head gaskets.
dependence on/funding of petro-dictatorships.
catalytic converters to be stolen.
exhaust “hump” robbing back middle seat passenger of space.”
engine noise or vibration causing fatigue after 12 hours of driving.
usual complaints from pax on chilly mornings with efficient heated back seats.
hesitation at take-off at a traffic light to overtake the car in the next lane since all torque is at 0 mph.
Freeway stop and go traffic foot fatigue with one pedal driving.

Range? Officially 238 miles. Ly/Ubering rarely take me out of the 7 mi.² that is San Francisco, so 238 lasts all day.

Charging? Done at home. Old house but luckily detached single family homes in San Francisco have exemptions for the requirements to have it done by a licensed electrician. $40 and a half hour of my time to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet; gives me a overnight full charge to go ~240 miles.

When out, I don’t drive anywhere that doesn’t at least have a NEMA 5-15 standard US electric socket that I can use within 20 miles of anywhere I may be.

Realistically, I don’t let it get that low. (If so, that’s terrible planning on my part and 100% my fault if it dies.) CCS DC Fast Charging in a Bolt EV is at least ubiquitous on the West Coast; never more than 2-5 miles away from most of the Bay Area; giving ~90 miles of range in 30 minutes.

So yes, at $6+ a gallon, safe to say I feel good about owning an EV for rideshare.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Nice to see some additional Bolt and Tesla owners in the forum. I've been driving part time in an EV for about 4 years now. Would never go back. I stop and charge once per day at the airport while getting lunch. Nice break, then usually catch a ride out. Total cost to run the car per month is $560. That's payments, insurance charging, tires. The works.

A pure BEV is not for everyone.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Perhaps you're not aware of the percentage that fully electric vehicles are of the total vehicle sales in the U.S.


Christine, yes, still a fairly small percent, but that is not exclusive of the truth of the assertion that EVs have hit (or will soon hit) critical mass. The adoption curve (S curve) may well turn exponential as the list of objections to EVs whittles down further and faster.

I personally have considered 2021 "The year of the EV". The most models from the widest array of automakers were introduced. In 2019 I only saw Bolts and Leafs at the non-Tesla chargers. Now you see Volvos, Fords, Jaguars, BMW's, Porsche's, Hyundai's, Kia's, Volkswagen's, and Audi's with their EV models, and newcomers like Lucid, Rivian, MINI, the HUMMER, and others. Around the corner are a slew of models such as the Ford and Chevy EV pickups and Rolls-Royce entry's. We are at a turning point in EV evolution as battery costs and charging times are dropping, and charging station density and battery reliability is rising. Soon an EV will be a no-brainer choice.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Now you see Volvos, Fords, Jaguars, BMW's, Porsche's, Hyundai's, Kia's, Volkswagen's, and Audi's with their EV models, and newcomers like Lucid, Rivian, MINI, the HUMMER, and others.


Maybe they have where you are. That's certainly not the case here in Texas. At least not yet, anyway.

I occasionally see a Tesla, but I go months in between seeing a Leaf or a Bolt. I think I've seen one or two electric Beemers.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Perhaps you're not aware of the percentage that fully electric vehicles are of the total vehicle sales in the U.S.
> 
> Go look it up. I'll wait.


4.5% , not sure what your point is. 
Editted: Sorry, didn't see your last post. 

Yes, it's only 4.5% but as @_Tron_ mentions, you will see that grow quickly I think.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Disgusted Driver said:


> 4.5% , not sure what your point is.
> Editted: Sorry, didn't see your last post.
> 
> Yes, it's only 4.5% but as @_Tron_ mentions, you will see that grow quickly I think.


Basic S-Curve:


https://3uvqeisena11zr8q939vd5i1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/basics-s-curve-figure1.png



Norway's case as of 2019:








Norway: A Case Study In EV Adoption


If we look closely at what's happening in the world's EV capital, Norway, we may be able to glean and analyze some very compelling information.




insideevs.com





What happens once it takes off...




__





Norway bans gas car sales in 2025, but trends point toward 100% EV sales as early as April


Norway is ahead of the game in EV sales, with gasoline’s share of the new car market vanishing more and...




electrek.co


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

p7wang said:


> Basic S-Curve:
> 
> 
> https://3uvqeisena11zr8q939vd5i1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/basics-s-curve-figure1.png
> ...


Yeah Norway is far above everyone else when it comes to EV adoption..this chart is 2 years old but a favorite as it shows when Norway began selling more EV's than ICE.. history in the making


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

EVs are bad for the environment. Producing just one EV 1000 lb battery is catastrophic to the environment. Not to mention, 40% of US electricity is produced by coal, so they aren’t cleaner anyway. I love the earth too much to drive an EV. The day Uber forces us to use them, is the day I stop driving for Uber.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

TobyD said:


> EVs are bad for the environment. Producing just one EV 1000 lb battery is catastrophic to the environment. Not to mention, 40% of US electricity is produced by coal, so they aren’t cleaner anyway. I love the earth too much to drive an EV. The day Uber forces us to use them, is the day I stop driving for Uber.


Let me try one more time: Even though the EV may be using electricity that was generated by fossil fuel it is still far more efficient. probably half the pollutants, to use dirty electricity rather than gasoline. Power plants are MUCH more efficient than internal combustion engines.

As far as the battery is concerned, for most people using an EV, I agree, the cost of mining and refining exceeds the benefit. I think you have to get to 150K miles or so before that balances out.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> As far as the battery is concerned, for most people using an EV, I agree, the cost of mining and refining exceeds the benefit. I think you have to get to 150K miles or so before that balances out.


My 2015 Honda Accord Hybrid has 200k miles on the battery, which still has about half of it's original capacity and this has not affected performance or gas mileage. Gas motor still only runs about half the time, but the intervals between gas and electric are shorter now than when new. So I've gotten more than 150k out of this battery, and still going. So this is a case study in it being worth the production of the battery.

This may or may not be the case for other vehicle types or even possibly other honda hybrids... because the way I use my car might be different then the way you use yours, and that could be a factor in the battery's life and performance.

All being said, I'm happy with the hybrid. When I can buy something with a 400 mile or higher range, for a similar cost to this hybrid, I'm all in. I would do so now, except that my AVERAGE miles driven when I Uber is over 250 and sometimes exceeds 400 currently. Yeah, I'm insane. Love it.


----------



## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Let me try one more time: Even though the EV may be using electricity that was generated by fossil fuel it is still far more efficient. probably half the pollutants, to use dirty electricity rather than gasoline. Power plants are MUCH more efficient than internal combustion engines.
> 
> As far as the battery is concerned, for most people using an EV, I agree, the cost of mining and refining exceeds the benefit. I think you have to get to 150K miles or so before that balances out.


If only someone could just figure how to recycle the battery materials so we have an end to mining vs non-ending fossil fuel drilling. Oh, someone already did! There are changes/improvements every year and it's funny how people spew 10 year old EV info to justify dirty ICE vehicles.

Seeing this coming, the industry titans are trying to steer us toward hydrogen so they can keep us as cash cows.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

p7wang said:


> Seeing this coming, the industry titans are trying to steer us toward hydrogen so they can keep us as cash cows


As opposed to keeping us dependent on a single provider of electricity, you mean?

If a couple of the gas stations near my house run out of gasoline, I can go to another one. If Centerpoint can't provide electricity to my house, I'm s*** out of luck.


----------



## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> As opposed to keeping us dependent on a single provider of electricity, you mean?
> 
> If a couple of the gas stations near my house run out of gasoline, I can go to another one. If Centerpoint can't provide electricity to my house, I'm s*** out of luck.


You can build your own solar/wind/hydro power system. People have purchased land further out from town and set up off their own off grid systems for $50K. How much would it cost to build your own oil refinery, assuming you have fossil fuel store under your land?


----------



## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> Maybe they have where you are. That's certainly not the case here in Texas. At least not yet, anyway.
> 
> I occasionally see a Tesla, but I go months in between seeing a Leaf or a Bolt. I think I've seen one or two electric Beemers.


Watch what happens when the greentards fully ban fossil fuels from their state and cheap gas becomes a real economic issue. If you thought you are seeing mass exodus out of California currently you haven't seen anything yet. They come here and pay three times the price for real estate just to escape the economic elitist ways in their state.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

p7wang said:


> You can build your own solar/wind/hydro power system. People have purchased land further out from town and set up off their own off grid systems for $50K. How much would it cost to build your own oil refinery, assuming you have fossil fuel store under your land?


We are going to build a wall around California just especially for the sheep like you who pay more taxes to their government for the services the government was supposed to be providing to them at an affordable price. But all of a sudden you think paying higher taxes and self sufficiency coincide. ?? Let me ask you who is getting rich off all of those taxes you pay into your state while its up to every citizen to need to put solar panels on their houses ? You can't even grow a garden because rainwater is already banned? Your gun rights are less than Communist China? I could go on and on!!!


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Hey @_Tron_ you need to go get you one!!


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> As opposed to keeping us dependent on a single provider of electricity, you mean?
> 
> If a couple of the gas stations near my house run out of gasoline, I can go to another one. If Centerpoint can't provide electricity to my house, I'm s*** out of luck.


LOL.. really ? The reality is once one gas stations is out of gas they all our ..some of us lived through the 1970's












you have to be bright enough to plug your EV into your house to provide electricty until Centerpoint gets the line men out to fix the issue.. We had power go out this winter for one day during a winter storm here in Minnesota and I was able to run Big screen TV , Lights , Heated Blanket , microwave , coffee pot etc for 12 hours until power came back on using my Chevy bolt hooked upthrough a power inverter


This is how the new EVs power your house .. Running everything he needs for 5 days using just his EV ..and he has solar if he needs to keep the house running longer

It realy helps if some of you educate yourselves before posting


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

dauction said:


> LOL.. really ? The reality is once one gas stations is out of gas they all our ..some of us lived through the 1970's
> 
> View attachment 651061
> 
> ...


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Yes single sourse avaliable to anyone and everyone ..even 1 Solar Panel and you can cook , make phone calls , slowly charge a vehicle


TX Uber Ant said:


> View attachment 651062


Typical 12 year old maturity


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> As opposed to keeping us dependent on a single provider of electricity, you mean?


Yes Single Source.. Available to everyone , with just One Solar Panel you can forever have communications with the entire world(charging you Phone), You can cook , watch TV , power your computer and keep the lights on..and store in batteries for the rainy days


all with one CLEAN Source thats here for everyone


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Cheap Cheap Cheap


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

p7wang said:


> How much would it cost to build your own oil refinery, assuming you have fossil fuel store under your land?


The answer to your question is "Billions," with a capital "B."

The reason I know this is because I have worked in energy insurance for more than 10 years. I know how to estimate the cost of repairs to a large refinery, from a worst-case explosion scenario.

There are, of course, very few refineries that have a source of crude oil located directly underneath them. That's partly because refineries are located closer to their markets. The crude oil occurs whenever it happened to occur.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

dauction said:


> Yes Single Source.. Available to everyone , with just One Solar Panel you can forever have communications with the entire world(charging you Phone),


And... how much does that much solar capacity cost to install?

Since you have to BUY the solar cells and PAY to have them installed, I wouldn't exactly call solar energy "free."


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Fortunately you are not the only consumer in the world. For the rest of the world, EV sales seem to be reaching critical mass. It's sad that the scientifically challenged members of our society don't understand basic concepts like efficiency before they go spouting off like their opinion is meaningful. Even if the electricity you are charging your EV with is from NONrenewable fossil fuel, it's still much more efficient to generate the electricity to charge the vehicle rather than burn it in an ICE engine. But don't look now, more and more power is being generated by solar etc... One day we might have a more robust, distributed network of power generation and distribution if many houses have solar. But don't you trouble yourself with any crazy notion of progress or change in the world.


Before you insult others, first reflect on your own ignorance 

When the government gets involved with the grid again nationally, you will see that EV’s are complimentary, but their “fuel” has a fatal flaw. Electricity cannot be stored effectively and efficiently for any meaningful period of time. 

Brandon just announced a release of 1mm barrels of oil a day from the strategic reserves. There are no strategic reserves of electricity. 

Btw, for those in the northeast, your energy prices are quite different than other spots in the country. Check your local rates before you dive in blind.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> I'm not saying stick to gas cars forever... I'm saying if you're going to compare, you have to pay for electricity...


MA has the second highest electricity cost n the nation.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Let me try one more time: Even though the EV may be using electricity that was generated by fossil fuel it is still far more efficient. probably half the pollutants, to use dirty electricity rather than gasoline. Power plants are MUCH more efficient than internal combustion engines.
> 
> As far as the battery is concerned, for most people using an EV, I agree, the cost of mining and refining exceeds the benefit. I think you have to get to 150K miles or so before that balances out.


Is there a formula to compare gas price to kW cost?

$4.00 gal gets me 25miles
How many miles will a kW get me?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Diamondraider said:


> Is there a formula to compare gas price to kW cost?
> 
> $4.00 gal gets me 25miles
> How many miles will a kW get me?


I don't know the conversion factor off the top of my head. Nor what the efficiency of an electric vehicle is.

But I can tell you that it needs to be measured in KW-h. That is, kilowatt-hours.

Kilowatts are the equivalent of horsepower for a gasoline powered car. You can't measure miles per horsepower.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Diamondraider said:


> When the government gets involved with the grid again nationally, you will see that EV’s are complimentary, but their “fuel” has a fatal flaw. Electricity cannot be stored effectively and efficiently for any meaningful period of time.


It's a true statement that electricity can't be effectively stored.

But it's also a true statement that in a matter of minutes, you can increase the output of an electric power plant. You can't do that with an oil refinery. Which is why refineries need to have storage tanks for their products.


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> As opposed to keeping us dependent on a single provider of electricity, you mean?
> 
> If a couple of the gas stations near my house run out of gasoline, I can go to another one. If Centerpoint can't provide electricity to my house, I'm s*** out of luck.





Christinebitg said:


> And... how much does that much solar capacity cost to install?
> 
> Since you have to BUY the solar cells and PAY to have them installed, I wouldn't exactly call solar energy "free."


Show me were I said Free? I didnt did I, you are making stuff up

BTW.. a elemetry student can connect a solar panel to a battery ...solar panel..solar charger -battery -out to power inverter ..plug in extyension cored and power your devices ..simple.


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> It's a true statement that electricity can't be effectively stored.


Total Nonsense ..You can Store electricy for DECADES and the Batteries have become cheap as well ..Elon Musk turned Austalia into belivers 

*How Elon Musk’s Battery Farm is transforming lives of Australians?







*



*How Elon Musk’s Battery Farm is transforming the lives of Australians?: *Aside from upturning the economics of the automobile industry, Tesla has also begun innovation efforts in how we receive our day-to-day electrical power services.

Indeed, the day you begin to pay Tesla your electricity bills may soon come if they continue their success. Welcome dear, today we will talk about Tesla’s battery farm installations in Australia and how they changed the lives of many Australian citizens.


Tesla’s ‘battery farm’ in South Australia is officially known as the Hornsdale Power Reserve. Its construction history begins with the local southern Australian government searching for plausible plans for the improvement of their electrical power grid with a battery design in the region.

South Australia is regularly subject to adverse weather conditions and weather events which often disrupt stable power supply to homes, farms, and businesses in the region.

Elon Musk entered Tesla into the proposals with a wager that a solution would be provided and completed within ‘1000 days from contract signature’. If he failed then the batteries would become free of charge.

Tesla moved towards fulfilling this wager with unwavering commitment and speed as they had already begun construction and a few batteries were already up and running by the time of the signing of the contract on the 29th of September 2017.


Construction of the ‘battery farm’ is had begun to be colloquially known was completed on the 25th of November 2017 and connected to the grid on the 1st of December 2017.

Elon Musk had beat the wager by a mile; it only took 63 days between the signing of the contract and the completion of the project.

The installation’s power output saw a 50% rise following an announcement by the power company Neoen, which runs the facility for the government of South Australia. So how has this previously unheard-of battery power facility designed for powering properties just like traditional electricity gates impacted the population?

We need to understand how the facility works first. Currently, the battery farm outputs a total of 100 megawatts of electric power. These battery packs are sold as the Tesla Powerpack units.

These are basically a collection of sixteen high-performance and high-power batteries that are packed together in strong and weather-safe units. Tesla’s intentions with the Powerpack as of right now is squarely aimed at providing an alternate power source to alleviate the load from traditional power grids.


The batteries found in each Tesla Powerpack unit are composed of the same cell design that makes up the batteries on Tesla vehicles such as the Model 3 and Model S. Each cell is less than 3 inches long and under an inch diameter.

It is impressive because of the fact that the battery is an evolution of the lithium-ion batteries that we already use for many products such as smartphones or laptops.

The improved cell design allows for more powerful lithium-ion batteries for larger-scale use. With a total construction cost of $161 million Australian dollars, Tesla was able to put together a few dozen of these Tesla Powerpack units to provide 100 megawatts of energy initially to thousands of properties in South Australia.

As of September 2020, the operating company Neoen increased the capacity up to 150 megawatts. Traditional coal-fired power plants output an average of 600 megawatts of energy so it cannot be said that the Tesla battery farm can yet compete.

However, those who make this statement are failing to see the future potential of Tesla’s revolutionary power plant design. The main advantage of this design lies in its ability to store generated electricity from solar panels, windmills, and biomass generators for later use.

South Australia’s landscape makes it difficult to properly build a traditional electricity grid lined with towers and wires connected to a power plant that supplies the electricity.

The region is also subjected to a myriad of adverse weather conditions and effects that seriously hinder the prospect of a constant electricity supply. As a result, South Australia faces one of the highest instances of load shedding and power interruptions in the developed world.

Efforts at utilizing renewable energy generation efforts such as windmills have been ineffective so far since wind patterns are very inconsistent. With this battery farm, windmills are able to generate electricity for later use even when generators are turned off.

This is a boon that also benefits users of solar panels. Many South Australian residents had turned to use solar panels in an attempt to try and mitigate the load-shedding issue that they faced on an almost regular basis.


The main disadvantage of a solar panel is that extra electricity generated is lost if not used. A Tesla Powerpack battery used specifically for storing energy thus enables the storing of solar and wind-generated power for later use, greatly increasing the usability of windmills and solar panels.

They currently fill the gap to supply power when coal-fired power plants are unable to do so. The simple innovation of allowing a high durability electricity storage solution for millions in South Australia who desperately needed a reprieve from constant load-shedding and power shortages has greatly changed lives.

The very first benefit was received by the government of South Australia as the battery farm allowed electricity grid network costs to come down by about $116 million in 2019 and has resulted in lower bills for everyone.

Trade in the province of South Australia has seen substantial increases from 2017 to 2020 solely because of the installation of the battery farm, to begin with.

This battery farm also benefits businesses and factories who are able to remain operational for longer hours and some even being able to maintain operational capability 24/7.

This is something that was previously unheard of in South Australia. Hornsdale success I operating the Tesla battery farm has also inspired many Australian citizens to purchase their own Tesla Powerpack and Powerwall units to be used in conjunction with solar panels.

These units are also sold to private citizens and set a unit up is very easy. They have greatly benefited southern Australians by helping them reduce their electricity bills even further.

The most important impact of the Hornsdale Tesla battery farm is that it has set a precedent for further developed plans with the design. Tesla has further plans for more battery storage facilities and battery farms just like Hornsdale in many places around the world.

Some of these plans include facilities in Vermont, the USA, and Germany. A local government responsible for the supply of electricity can very effectively hold excess produced electricity from renewable sources and use them for later consumption.

This has prompted many recent investments in renewable technology as the inability for solar panels and windmills to hold on to excess produced electricity has traditionally hindered potential investors from taking a step.


Elon Musk wants to follow Hornsdale up with a completely new battery farm in the state of Victoria in Australia.

Victoria is another state which has seen substantial efforts in attempting to make renewable energy sources the norm in the face of inadequacies of traditional coal or nuclear-powered electricity generators.

The Hornsdale facility has already made renewable energy sources much more competitive in the energy market. We can only guess very high estimates in regards to where this future facility will take renewables.

We have to understand that renewable energy sources are not the only possible sources of electricity that can make use of battery storage architecture similar to Teslas.

Imagine the possibilities of nuclear energy being stored away in very durable batteries for use by future generations centuries later. For developing and underdeveloped countries, using such battery storage facilities can greatly improve impoverished people’s access to electricity as these places generally do not have any electricity transmission infrastructure.

Either that or their infrastructure is broken and plagued with issues similar to South Australia’s The battery farm at Hornsdale in South Africa has proved that renewable energies are finally becoming a competition against established electricity suppliers that use coal and nuclear energy.

We have seen how such a simple innovative use of an already existing battery technology has the potential to completely upturn the economics of the electricity market in the future.

Tesla has once again proven itself as a revolutionary; a technological giant whose efforts make human lives better and they have no intentions of stopping.

We do hope that Elon Musk and Tesla are eventually able to upscale their battery farm design to one that serves even more people on a global scale and eventually provides the world a viable answer to its energy needs that always evolve.

Let us know what you think of Tesla’s battery farms, a shining testament to Tesla’s commitment to changing the world for the better.


Do you think they can provide a powerful and most importantly, a viable alternative solution to the world’s power needs that do not burn fossil fuels? Or do you think sticking to cars and rockets would best serve Elon Musk?


So again Christine what you said is simply not true..


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> I don't know the conversion factor off the top of my head. Nor what the efficiency of an electric vehicle is.
> 
> But I can tell you that it needs to be measured in KW-h. That is, kilowatt-hours.
> 
> Kilowatts are the equivalent of horsepower for a gasoline powered car. You can't measure miles per horsepower.


Easiset way is

$4.00 gallon

To Go 250 miles (@25mpg) requires 10 gallons of Gas x $4.00 = $40.00 ..in best weather..no wind, no heater /AC running


In my Chevy Bolt no wind, No heater/no AC to go the same 250 miles . my electrical rate with taxes = 13 cents. My Battery is 64 kWh so 13 x 64 = $8.32 cents


ICE 25MPG- 250 Miles cost = $40.00
EV 250 Miles cost $8.32 cents


The ICE driver is paying almost 5 times as much to go the same distance.


No pure ICE can come close to a EV , even a hybrid Prius costs twice as much to fill up as a EV


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

dauction said:


> Total Nonsense ..You can Store electricy for DECADES and the Batteries have become cheap as well ..Elon Musk turned Austalia into belivers


And just exactly how much do those storage units contain?

The answer is "pretty damn little." If you're lucky, they might store enough to get you through a couple of days of cloudy weather.

In contrast, there's about a month of storage of liquid fuels that exists _right now_.

While we're at it, tell me how you could transport electricity from the US to Europe. You can't do it. But right now, there are dozens of ships hauling liquefied natural gas from the US to other parts of the world, including Europe and Asia.

By the way, don't bother posting dozens of paragraphs of junk. That's a waste of perfectly good electrons. I'm not going to read them, and nobody else is either.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

dauction said:


> Total Nonsense ..You can Store electricy for DECADES and the Batteries have become cheap as well ..Elon Musk turned Austalia into belivers
> 
> *How Elon Musk’s Battery Farm is transforming lives of Australians?
> View attachment 651203
> ...


“However, those who make this statement are failing to see the futurepotential of Tesla’s revolutionary power plant design.”

You overlooked the most important sentence in the article. FUTURE POTENTIAL

The article also states the technology cannot compete with an average coal fired plant. 


You are debating real world conditions with futuristic visions of grandeur with zero unintended consequences or trade-offs.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> And just exactly how much do those storage units contain?
> 
> The answer is "pretty damn little." If you're lucky, they might store enough to get you through a couple of days of cloudy weather.
> 
> ...


I actually read the article in case i was being myopic I wasn’t. The article is a fluff piece


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

dauction said:


> Easiset way is
> 
> $4.00 gallon
> 
> ...


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> And just exactly how much do those storage units contain?
> 
> The answer is "pretty damn little." If you're lucky, they might store enough to get you through a couple of days of cloudy weather.
> 
> ...


You have No Clue what you are talking about ...

You can store a days worth or a years worth of electrons..just a matter of how big of a battery setup you want. AND I can store these electrons at Home...OR at a Battery Farm likes Elon Musk built for Australia... btw in just 60 days..







Batteries hooked up to Solar AUTOMATICALLY refill ...Oil you need tankers and pipelines


Everyones knows you're just a oil propogandist..if you just said , I prefer OIl and moved on no one would care but instead you post outright lie about electricty and Solar


Both line everyone in the world has access to this ..










and cheap solar panels ..to DIRECTLY access the the energy the Sun puts out...


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

dauction said:


> You have No Clue what you are talking about ...
> 
> You can store a days worth or a years worth of electrons..just a matter of how big of a battery setup you want. AND I can store these electrons at Home...OR at a Battery Farm likes Elon Musk built for Australia... btw in just 60 days..
> 
> ...


Excellent strategy. 

I say “effectively and efficiently” and you answer them individually because you have realized they don’t co-exist in today’s world.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Diamondraider said:


> View attachment 651217


From our bill



















Bottom line far less expensive to charge a EV than fill up with Gasolione..as a Rideshare driver it's one of the MAIN expenses we have control of . If you want to maximize your earning we need to be in EVs


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

dauction said:


> From our bill
> 
> View attachment 651224
> 
> ...


Thanks for correcting the kWh cost. .08 seemed pretty low


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Diamondraider said:


> Thanks for correcting the kWh cost. .08 seemed pretty low


Wouldnt that be awesome .08 ... .08 x 64kWh (Chevy Bolt) = $5.12 to go 250 miles !


Although I spend roughly $6 a day ..roughly 200 miles a day driving uber.. back to OPs question about buying ..if he can make the Bolt work between San Antonia and Austin then absoltely go for it. Buy a Used Bolt under 20K (they all have /getting brand new Batteries-8 Year warranty/100k miles)

Dont spend 50-60k.

Or wait until next year for a base Blazer or Equinox (30k) 300+ miles of range and faster charging. Thats when I will upgrade fom the Bolt. The faster charging


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

NVE is at 7.7c and TOU EV rates 7c currently.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

dauction said:


> Wouldnt that be awesome .08 ... .08 x 64kWh (Chevy Bolt) = $5.12 to go 250 miles !
> 
> 
> Although I spend roughly $6 a day ..roughly 200 miles a day driving uber.. back to OPs question about buying ..if he can make the Bolt work between San Antonia and Austin then absoltely go for it. Buy a Used Bolt under 20K (they all have /getting brand new Batteries-8 Year warranty/100k miles)
> ...


Does it take 64 kWh to charge a 64 kWh battery to full charge?

Is there loss during the charging period?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

dauction said:


> You can store a days worth or a years worth of electrons..just a matter of how big of a battery setup you want.


Sure, you can store a year's worth of electricity. But you CAN NOT afford a battery or a capacitor that big. You simply can't.

Have you priced out how much it would cost to store even a month's worth of electricity for your house? I stand by my statement that you simply can't afford the cost of what it would take to store that much electricity.

Now, how much gasoline can you store? Comparatively, a huge amount. Let's say you put in a storage tank for say, a couple hundred gallons. And you even wanted to do a great job of it, and bury the tank in the ground by the side of your house. Total cost, a few hundred bucks, maybe slightly over a thousand bucks if you put in a big one.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Diamondraider said:


> Does it take 64 kWh to charge a 64 kWh battery to full charge?
> 
> Is there loss during the charging period?


good question..yes it can take an extra 1-2kW due to transfer loss efficiencies.


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Sure, you can store a year's worth of electricity. But you CAN NOT afford a battery or a capacity that big. You simply can't.
> 
> Have you priced out how much it would cost to store even a month's worth of electricity for your house? I stand by my statement that you simply can't afford the cost of what it would take to store that much electricity.
> 
> Now, how much gasoline can you store? Comparatively, a huge amount. Let's say you put in a storage tank for say, a couple hundred gallons. And you even wanted to do a great job of it, and bury the tank in the ground by the side of your house. Total cost, a few hundred bucks, maybe slightly over a thousand bucks if you put in a big one.


Yawn .. you dont NEED to store a years supply of Electricity or even gasoline(which goes bad btw). No one is storing a years worth of gasoline next to their home..other than this guy..











The fact that you even suggested storing that much gasoline next to your home leads me to wonder if you are related to him ?


Your EV can store a weeks worth of Energy in your EV..it's called V2L and all new EV's are adding it.








You can of course add solar as well so you never run out of electricity..but of course you wont need that new fangled liberal nonsense when you have plenty of Gasoline stored in barrels next to your house lol


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

dauction said:


> Yawn .. you dont NEED to store a years supply of Electricity or even gasoline(which goes bad btw).


YOU'RE the one who said you could store a year's worth of electricity, not me. The fact is, it isn't even remotely close to being feasible.

And there's no way you're going to be able to store even a month of electricity in your car, even just what the car itself uses. Unless you actually never drive the car. Which would be kind of a useless exercise, I'd say.


dauction said:


> You can of course add solar as well so you never run out of electricity


And So we are back to the question: HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO INSTALL THAT MUCH ELECTRIC GENERATING CAPACITY?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Ok people. Calm down. Don't make me get the popcorn out.


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## JonC (Jul 30, 2016)

I've had a plug-in hybrid for about 6 years now. My next car will be electric.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I don't care what the motive power of my vehicle is.

If it costs about $22-25000 CAD without the use of taxpayer funded "incentives"...........gets 600 KM of range in -40 during winter.........will start if left outside.........and can get refueled in 15 minutes, then I am in. But, until then.........it's gonna be........a musical pun.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Anyone out in their EV doing rideshare? Electrify America has free charging for Earth Day (started at 9pm Thurs PST thru Friday all day, ending at midnight).

Electrify America: U.S. EV public charging network | Electrify America


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

reg barclay said:


> Here's the way I look at it, in short.
> 
> The cheapest EV on the US market costs about $30k. The cheapest compact gasoline gar is about $15k.
> 
> Which means that even at current gas prices, you can buy about 4000 gallons of gas with the price difference. Which (at 30 mpg) equates to around 120,000 miles of driving.


That's if looking only at new car prices... and possibly using a Mitsubishi Mirage as the $15,000 benchmark for the gas-powered comparable.

I did a quick search for EVs built from 2014-2017 and found some low-range EVs with under 50,000 miles of use for less than $15,000 on the used market:



*2016 Ford Focus Electric Hatchback
$13,995 ·
*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 4.4% APR for 60 months, $13,995 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

30,195 mi

Oak Harbor, WA (30 mi)

GREAT DEAL
$2,020 below market



Home Delivery
*2013 Ford Focus Electric Hatchback
$10,205 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 4.4% APR for 60 months, $10,205 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

61,705 mi

Home Delivery

GOOD DEAL
$537 below market


Includes $217 home delivery • Authorized Ford Dealer

New Arrival
*2016 Ford Focus Electric Hatchback
$15,971 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 4.4% APR for 60 months, $15,971 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

24,858 mi

Everett, WA (4 mi)

FAIR DEAL
$1 above market



*2015 Ford Focus Electric Hatchback
$13,999 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 4.4% APR for 60 months, $13,999 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

33,614 mi

Burien, WA (33 mi)

FAIR DEAL
$674 above market




New Arrival
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*2013 Nissan LEAF SL
$10,559 ·
*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 3.99% APR for 60 months, $10,559 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

51,393 mi

Auburn, WA (42 mi)

GREAT DEAL
$2,118 below market





New Arrival
*2013 Nissan LEAF SL
$11,981 ·
*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 3.99% APR for 60 months, $11,981 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

30,835 mi

Bellevue, WA (23 mi)

GOOD DEAL
$1,807 below market



Home Delivery
*2013 Nissan LEAF SL
$12,973 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 3.99% APR for 60 months, $12,973 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

30,624 mi

Home Delivery

GOOD DEAL
$827 below market


Includes $2,374 home delivery

Home Delivery
*2013 Nissan LEAF SL
$13,524 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 3.99% APR for 60 months, $13,524 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

66,189 mi

Home Delivery

HIGH PRICE
$1,647 above market


Includes $3,525 home delivery

Home Delivery
*2013 Nissan LEAF SL
$13,824 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 3.99% APR for 60 months, $13,824 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

51,014 mi

Home Delivery

FAIR DEAL
$1,127 above market


Includes $3,525 home delivery

*2016 Nissan LEAF SV
$14,950 ·

*Estimated payments are for informational purposes only and may or may not account for financing pre-qualifications, acquisition fees, destination charges, tax, title, and other fees and incentives or represent a financing offer or guarantee of credit from the seller. Monthly Estimate based on a 3.99% APR for 60 months, $14,950 vehicle price, $0 down payment, $0 trade-in, $0 sales tax.*

64,200 mi

Seattle, WA (17 mi)

GOOD DEAL
$1,014 below market


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----------



## p7wang (12 mo ago)

CleanTechnica: Uber Announces New EV Hub, EV Charging Map, & Comfort Electric.


https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/18/uber-announces-new-ev-hub-ev-charging-map-comfort-electric/


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

EVs are not the right tool for the job. Range is the most important factor, followed by cost. 

I started doing this gig in a gas guzzler, and even averaging 15mpg, gas was < 10% of gross earnings. Fillups every 300-350 miles.

Later got a hybrid that averages 47mpg. Now gas was only 3% of my gross earnings. Fillups every 600 miles.

This was when gas was $2.65/gal.

Even with hyper expensive gas, I am not spending more than 6-7% of gross earnings on gas. Don't know how much the fuel surcharge helps to offset this.

The point is that an EV costs more to insure, more to purchase, the shorter range impacts ability to work all day. 

And to everyone's surprise, charging an EV isnt free. From what I saw, eMPG was about double my hybrid.

Bottom line is that an EV will save you 5% on energy costs, but the car/insurance are more expensive, and you have to deal with charging logistics/limitations.

Hybrid is still the best.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

^ Meant to say, you will gross 3-5% more in an EV, but pay more for insurance, and more for the car.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

p7wang said:


> CleanTechnica: Uber Announces New EV Hub, EV Charging Map, & Comfort Electric.
> 
> 
> https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/18/uber-announces-new-ev-hub-ev-charging-map-comfort-electric/


+1 for the post. Are you seeing anything of interest here though?

*UBER EV HUB*: A centralized place where you can get Uber's spin on what's involved to go electric. Key word there is "spin". Probably better for drivers to do their own research

*EV charging Map*: Redundant and likely useless. There are already several good apps that provide this information and it's unlikely the Uber map will be as complete and as updated.

*Uber Comfort Electric*: Marginal. We already have Uber Green and it is hardly used in my [rather upscale] driving locale. The only time I get an Uber Green hit is when riders can't find an Uber X car and only Uber Green is available (since my car is Uber X as well as Uber Green do the math).



OldBay said:


> EVs are not the right tool for the job. Range is the most important factor, followed by cost.
> 
> I started doing this gig in a gas guzzler, and even averaging 15mpg, gas was < 10% of gross earnings. Fillups every 300-350 miles.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, except maybe insurance. Would like to see where you got your info that is costs more to insure an EV.

EV's are not for every driver yet. That is true. But it sure works for me. I pay a $5 flat fee to charge at our municipal airport. With range pushing over 250 miles per charge, many drivers will not even need to charge during their shift, and will charge overnight at a fraction of gasmobiles. Maintenance costs are a small percent of gasmobiles. And I do receive $1 extra for ALL rides (Uber X or Green). And the insurance premium for my Bolt is about $100 /month for full coverage and rideshare add-on.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Final thought: Per the article Uber's goal is to have a 100% electric fleet by 2040.

*2040?*

The entire fleet of ALL vehicles will be 100% electric by 2040. Uber is so much more full of sizzle than steak.


----------



## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

Nope I'll deal with the gas


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Maintenance costs are a small percent of gasmobiles.


Aside from oil changes, what savings does your electric vehicle get in terms of maintenance?


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DEATH TRAPS !


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

dauction said:


> I drive a 2017 Chevy Bolt for nearly 2 years rideshare in Minnesota. Winter sucks because it drains battery faster using heater ..BUT spring , summer , fall I get anywhere from 200 -270 miles range (depending opn city/highway etc)
> 
> I pay $8 a day and will get 240 miles or so average spring to fall before needing charge. You are in Texas so you should be able to get similar year round. You can pick up Chevy Bolts for cheap ..as low as 16K AND that includes a BRAND NEW BATTERY with 8 year/or 100K warranty ! (Chevrolet had a recall on the Bolts battery and LG (that makes the batteries) agreed to replace them all) I just got my new battery a moth agao and have 118K miles on the old battery,
> 
> ...


*___*
Great information.. What was the cost of your new battery ?


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Aside from oil changes, what savings does your electric vehicle get in terms of maintenance?


Mainly, there's a lot fewer parts to break or wear out. The electric motors tend not to wear out. There are only two parts in those motors that even make friction contact, that being the bearings.

The brakes rarely need to be replaced because of regenerative braking (regen) which is a function whereby the motor slows down the car when you let up on the "gas" pedal (one pedal driving). How? The motor uses the turning of the wheels to recharge the battery, which in turn, causes the car to slow due to the load on the motor.

And no smog checks! All those many emission sub-systems and parts are missing on an EV.

No drive belts to wear out. AC, water pump for battery cooling, and power steering use electric pumps.

Greatly reduce scheduled maintenance (which is why dealers hate EVs). I have a combined 90K miles on my two Bolts and they have never seen the inside of a dealer service center. (knock on wood)


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> DEATH TRAPS !


You are of course smart enough to know that there are far more fires for gasoline powered vehicles. They just don't get reported with such scintillating headlines, and shared on social media by folks with deep ties to the fossil fuel industry. ;>


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Electric Cars are Death Traps !


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

They’re talking about rolling brownouts this summer. The power grid can’t handle demand. Good luck charging your coal powered electric cars when the power is out.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

TobyD said:


> They’re talking about rolling brownouts this summer. The power grid can’t handle demand. Good luck charging your coal powered electric cars when the power is out.


That's like saying the gas stations can't handle demand at Costco because you see a line.
Plenty of capacity in the grid. The only time the grid is stressed is during the evening peak. Just don't charge in those 4 hours. Also, you don't have to stand and wait while the car is charging (unlike gas cars).


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

EVs are one of the biggest "feel good" scams in decades. They are a status symbol now for people with garages. They don't scale well.


Most apartments will never have electrical chargers.
Best case scenario, it takes 5x as long to charge an EV than it does to fill a gas tank. This means that EV charge stations will have long lines, or there will need to be many more of them than there are gas stations.
Grid will never be able to support anticipated EV demand, without use of dirty power. (Our grid is "dirty" right now, would need to be replaced and expanded with nuclear.)
Electricity cannot be stored and moved like fuel. No one want a nuclear plant or wind farm in their back yard. Nuclear plant in middle of no where doesn't do anyone any good.
There is no realistic plan for handling and recycling all the batteries.
Child labor involved in cobalt mining is deadly/bad now, just wait until the demand for raw materials increases 40x.
EV require "less maintenance". GM scuttled their original program because it would destroy hundreds of thousands of automotive jobs.

The whole thing is a feel good pipe dream. Much like Elon Musk's Mars dream (everyone knows that astronauts will receive five lifetimes of radiation in a single round trip to Mars. Should they survive the journey, they certainly will die of cancer.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I nominate OldBay for morale officer of this forum.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

_Tron_ said:


> I nominate OldBay for morale officer of this forum.


And while you can joke about it, the truth is that of all the problems I listed, none of them have solutions.

The grid won't support anticipated demand which means either more dirty power or nukes in your back yard.

Children in third world countries are dying mining this shit. Its not like oil where you drill a hole and oil comes out, actual human hands are digging in the dirt to mine this stuff.

And anyone with a brain realizes that apartment complexes (and city townhomes) cannot maintain a battery of working chargers for all their tennants. 

EVs are just a political football. Sit down and really think it though and you will realize it to be true. If you want to stop global warming, stop taking business flights, demand to work from home, and stop having kids.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

I put down the back seat of my prius.... Inflated a twin mattress....pushed the EV mode... And sleepy comfortably all night while camping.... My boyfriend says next time he'll even let me never mind


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> And while you can joke about it, the truth is that of all the problems I listed, none of them have solutions.
> 
> The grid won't support anticipated demand which means either more dirty power or nukes in your back yard.
> 
> ...


In just a decade of EVs, we now have LFP battery that does not use cobalt. Meanwhile, oil refinery continues to use cobalt with no plans to deviate.









Cobalt Mining: There's Something That the Petrol Companies Don't Want You to Know


We take a look at Cobalt's role in petrol production and why EVs can't be blamed for the mining issues.




www.chargesmart.co.nz


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

OldBay said:


> And while you can joke about it, the truth is that of all the problems I listed, none of them have solutions.
> 
> The grid won't support anticipated demand which means either more dirty power or nukes in your back yard.
> 
> ...


The negatives you have mentioned are accurate in today's world. Things are going to change though, here's a few possibilities:

More people will get solar on their homes. As this starts to happen the grid will become more distributed. Some of the power will be generated much more closely to where it's consumed allowing for more power use on the grid.
Cars and other devices like powerwalls can store electricity which can be drained or used at peak times. So you could leave your vehicle plugged in when you aren't using it and some power could be drawn from it at peak periods, recharged fully overnight.
Even if you are still generating dirty electricity, generating the electricity and using it to power an ev is still much more efficient and results in less emissions because ice engines are notoriously inefficient.
Battery technology is improving and changing resulting in less rare earth elements being mined and used.
Apartment complexes, etc... will deal, some better than others. New construction will eventually get there because of changing building codes. existing housing: some will get retrofitted some won't, it will become a criteria that some will use for selection. In addition, fast charging will get faster as the tech improves.
I could go on but I hope you get the point, by today's standards you are correct but it's a moving target and I think a lot of issues will be resolved over time. I don't think EV's will make ICE vehicles obsolete for another 10-25 years but look at Norway, they are already well under way to making the transition.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Even if you are still generating dirty electricity, g*enerating the electricity and using it to power an ev is still much more efficient* and results in less emissions because ice engines are notoriously inefficient.


I more or less agree with your other bullet points, even though they do not solve the problems, only say there might be solutions.

This one though is exaggerated. With current dirty power, EVs estimated to have 30-50% less CO2 emission than equivalent hybrid. For every EV on the road, SIX hybrids can be made, which would have a much greater impact on CO2 emissions.

The battery materials are much better put towards hybrids.

Much more realistic to get everyone driving hybrids than it is EVs.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

OldBay said:


> I more or less agree with your other bullet points, even though they do not solve the problems, only say there might be solutions.
> 
> This one though is exaggerated. With current dirty power, EVs estimated to have 30-50% less CO2 emission than equivalent hybrid. For every EV on the road, SIX hybrids can be made, which would have a much greater impact on CO2 emissions.
> 
> ...


At this point in time I totally agree with you, if I had a nice plug in hybrid I would be a very happy person and save a good bit. First 30 or 40 miles are very cheap on electric charge with a 10 KhW battery (instead of the 60-75KwH batteries they are putting into Teslas) then switch over to a very efficient hybrid situation. Don't have time or place to plug in, no worries.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Mainly, there's a lot fewer parts to break or wear out. The electric motors tend not to wear out. There are only two parts in those motors that even make friction contact, that being the bearings.
> 
> The brakes rarely need to be replaced because of regenerative braking (regen) which is a function whereby the motor slows down the car when you let up on the "gas" pedal (one pedal driving). How? The motor uses the turning of the wheels to recharge the battery, which in turn, causes the car to slow due to the load on the motor.
> 
> ...


Okay, so let me see if I have this right...


The brakes need servicing less often.
You don't need smog checks.
You don't have to replace any belts under the hood.

How frequently have you actually needed a brake job done on a non-electric car? The last time I had one was in 2017, four and a half years ago.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> The negatives you have mentioned are accurate in today's world. Things are going to change though, here's a few possibilities:
> 
> More people will get solar on their homes. As this starts to happen the grid will become more distributed. Some of the power will be generated much more closely to where it's consumed allowing for more power use on the grid.
> Cars and other devices like powerwalls can store electricity which can be drained or used at peak times. So you could leave your vehicle plugged in when you aren't using it and some power could be drawn from it at peak periods, recharged fully overnight.
> ...


I can see it now " MAN RUNS OVER 440 FAST CAR CHARGING LINE WITH LAWNMOWER. BURSTS INTO FLAMES IN FRONT YARD ! "


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Okay, so let me see if I have this right...
> 
> 
> The brakes need servicing less often.
> ...


No darling, you don't have it right. You seem to kind of have a bias against EVs. I can tell because you left out the part about fewer scheduled service appointments, far fewer parts to break down the road, and much lower costs to "fuel" the car. But that's fine. Folks like you, once they flip and see the light, are great EV evangelists. ;>


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> No darling, you don't have it right. You seem to kind of have a bias against EVs. I can tell because you left out the part about fewer scheduled service appointments


How about you cut out the condescending baloney and give a for-real justification for why you think there's less scheduled maintenance.

Am I biased against electric vehicles? Yes, I am. But you certainly haven't made any progress against that yet.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> How about you cut out the condescending baloney and give a for-real justification for why you think there's less scheduled maintenance.
> 
> Am I biased against electric vehicles? Yes, I am. But you certainly haven't made any progress against that yet.


I think there are going to be less repairs with EV, but the repairs are going to cost much more. Things like "fried dash cluster" and "needs new battery pack" are going to be spendy.

I don't know how much real world evidence there is to long term maintenance costs of EV. Have to wait and see.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> How about you cut out the condescending baloney and give a for-real justification for why you think there's less scheduled maintenance.


I think there's less maintenance because when I open the manual that comes with the car (Chevy Bolt EV), turn to the pages for scheduled maintenance, I note how infrequent the scheduled maintenance periods required by the automaker are, compared to gasmobiles. And the check list of maint. items is shorter as well. For example no checking or replacing the timing belt. That's another dreaded headache that legacy gas powered cars have that you won't encounter with an EV.

I'm not saying EVs are perfect. Not by a damned sight. I've turned down delivery of two Tesla's because of the abysmal build quality.



Christinebitg said:


> Am I biased against electric vehicles? Yes, I am. But you certainly haven't made any progress against that yet.


Not an inch of progress. Agreed. It's because you're not listening. Yet. But I've laid out the core facts that anyone versed in electric cars would list. I am now going to drop this conversation because all it's doing is entrenching you further into your position. Try a test drive sometime.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

OldBay said:


> I think there are going to be less repairs with EV, but the repairs are going to cost much more. Things like "fried dash cluster" and "needs new battery pack" are going to be spendy.
> 
> I don't know how much real world evidence there is to long term maintenance costs of EV. Have to wait and see.


I am sure they will " Build In " maintenance.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> I think there are going to be less repairs with EV, but the repairs are going to cost much more. Things like "fried dash cluster" and "needs new battery pack" are going to be spendy.
> 
> I don't know how much real world evidence there is to long term maintenance costs of EV. Have to wait and see.


Bunch of 2012 Tesla that are now 10 years old and past the 8 yr battery warranty.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

OldBay said:


> I think there are going to be less repairs with EV, but the repairs are going to cost much more. Things like "fried dash cluster" and "needs new battery pack" are going to be spendy.
> 
> I don't know how much real world evidence there is to long term maintenance costs of EV. Have to wait and see.


I can't find citations for cost but I did read about 2 limo companies, 1 in LA and one in Australia that use Tesla's for limo service. Their fleet experience was that the cost of operation with repairs and cost of vehicle included was something like 1/2 the cost of an equivalent ice vehicle. EV Milestone: Tesla limo service surpasses 1 million kilometers driven

There are so many fewer moving parts, no oil changes, starters, alternators, belts, gaskets brakes replaced maybe every 150K miles if you use the regenrative brakes. (I tend to need front brakes every 50K or so on my van). Yes, parts are expensive. Battery is 15K, door handle is 1200 I think, electronics probably a fortune. The battery is warrantied to lose no more than 15% capacity over 8 years (and has an expectation of being able to handle 6K full charge cycles), rest of the car for 4 years. Electronics go on any car and it's expensive, hence why a 10 year old Mercedes is worthless. Tires are substantially more expensive for an EV. They have to be rated for a higher weight load (Tesla 3 requires roughly1600 lbs load vs. 1200 lb load for many tires and they may need to be replaced as soon as every 40K miles.

It costs me 4 cents a mile in electricity to operate a Tesla 3. If I had an equivalent Toyota Avalon hybrid I would be spending 12 cents a mile for gas. Given that the Tesla is "overpriced" about 10K (compared to an equivalent sedan in my humble opinion) it really comes down to how much you are going to drive the car. I don't think you really see any savings till you've driven 100K miles. What does the future hold, who knows. At some point people will be rebuilding or refurbishing batteries, used electronic parts may be available from junkyards, parts may be available from OEM suppliers (for example, I can buy a set of front led headlights new for $325 from the Chinese manufacturer right on ebay or I can buy them from Tesla for 1K).


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't find citations for cost but I did read about 2 limo companies, 1 in LA and one in Australia that use Tesla's for limo service. Their fleet experience was that the cost of operation with repairs and cost of vehicle included was something like 1/2 the cost of an equivalent ice vehicle. EV Milestone: Tesla limo service surpasses 1 million kilometers driven
> 
> There are so many fewer moving parts, no oil changes, starters, alternators, belts, gaskets brakes replaced maybe every 150K miles if you use the regenrative brakes. (I tend to need front brakes every 50K or so on my van). Yes, parts are expensive. Battery is 15K, door handle is 1200 I think, electronics probably a fortune. The battery is warrantied to lose no more than 15% capacity over 8 years (and has an expectation of being able to handle 6K full charge cycles), rest of the car for 4 years. Electronics go on any car and it's expensive, hence why a 10 year old Mercedes is worthless. Tires are substantially more expensive for an EV. They have to be rated for a higher weight load (Tesla 3 requires roughly1600 lbs load vs. 1200 lb load for many tires and they may need to be replaced as soon as every 40K miles.
> 
> It costs me 4 cents a mile in electricity to operate a Tesla 3. If I had an equivalent Toyota Avalon hybrid I would be spending 12 cents a mile for gas. Given that the Tesla is "overpriced" about 10K (compared to an equivalent sedan in my humble opinion) it really comes down to how much you are going to drive the car. I don't think you really see any savings till you've driven 100K miles. What does the future hold, who knows. At some point people will be rebuilding or refurbishing batteries, used electronic parts may be available from junkyards, parts may be available from OEM suppliers (for example, I can buy a set of front led headlights new for $325 from the Chinese manufacturer right on ebay or I can buy them from Tesla for 1K).


Yes, need to drive many miles to break even.

Repairs for the Tesla. Not sure if you can go to the corner mechanic and get his hourly rate. My guess is the diagnostic tools are proprietary and must go to Tesla for anything advanced. I've heard getting maintenance work on a Tesla takes weeks/months while they wait for a part. If the car is off the road for more than a week there goes any earning advantage.

Then you have potential range issues. And trying to sell a Tesla thats been taxi? Not alot of low rent buyers have chargers. Probably bigger depreciation hit.

I still don't think EV is worth it.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Yes, need to drive many miles to break even.
> 
> Repairs for the Tesla. Not sure if you can go to the corner mechanic and get his hourly rate. My guess is the diagnostic tools are proprietary and must go to Tesla for anything advanced. I've heard getting maintenance work on a Tesla takes weeks/months while they wait for a part. If the car is off the road for more than a week there goes any earning advantage.
> 
> ...


At this moment in time, I agree that an EV is definitely not worth it for most ride share drivers. I'm on my third Tesla 3 (I've been buying them, keeping them for a couple of months and then flipping them for a small profit) and there is no way I would let a paxhole in it. Given how capricious Uber is, any of us could be gone with a moments notice so a hefty investment for a long range plan makes no sense. I've also never tried to sell a car I rideshare with for any appreciable amount of money, I have driven them all into the ground. Repair for Tesla in particular is mixed. It's either going to be quick or as you've heard a wait, it's gotten better than it was 4 years ago but still an issue. I don't think other manufacturers are as bad though. As a part time driver it simply doesn't add up just from a business perspective but if I were a 60K miles a year full time driver with a reasonable guarantee that it was worth doing this for the next 5 years I would probably seriously consider a Tesla 3LR. It's gassed up every night, ready to go. I get a solid 300 miles of range. If I'm having a busy day I can stop at lunch and supercharge an extra 150 miles of range in 10 minutes or so, yes, more hassle but the savings per mile starts to add up, think about it, saving $20 a day on energy cost is huge and I won't even add in the temporary extra buck a ride they are offering for green rides. All of this will change in the not so distant future though!


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm on my third Tesla 3 (I've been buying them, keeping them for a couple of months and then flipping them for a small profit)


Good posts Disgusted. A lot depends on whether one drives full or part time. I am a part-timer and drive on weekends to pay for the car and the weeks' groceries. I spent $3k of the $4.5K the state gave me as a rebate for buying an EV to extend the bumper-to-bumper warranty to 150K miles. After that I'm on my own. But I don't plan on ever having to buy a new battery as I will consider the car end-of-life in 8 years (when the battery warranty runs out). So my costs are mostly fixed, and the car is paying for itself from year one. So it's different for everybody.

I envy you for having flipped the Tesla's. I am regretting canceling my Model 3 and later my Model Y order instead of taking delivery and doing the same. I do have an early reservation for a Cybertruck and may flip that. Slow learner.


----------



## p7wang (12 mo ago)

Disgusted Driver said:


> At this moment in time, I agree that an EV is definitely not worth it for most ride share drivers. I'm on my third Tesla 3 (I've been buying them, keeping them for a couple of months and then flipping them for a small profit) and there is no way I would let a paxhole in it. Given how capricious Uber is, any of us could be gone with a moments notice so a hefty investment for a long range plan makes no sense. I've also never tried to sell a car I rideshare with for any appreciable amount of money, I have driven them all into the ground. Repair for Tesla in particular is mixed. It's either going to be quick or as you've heard a wait, it's gotten better than it was 4 years ago but still an issue. I don't think other manufacturers are as bad though. As a part time driver it simply doesn't add up just from a business perspective but if I were a 60K miles a year full time driver with a reasonable guarantee that it was worth doing this for the next 5 years I would probably seriously consider a Tesla 3LR. It's gassed up every night, ready to go. I get a solid 300 miles of range. If I'm having a busy day I can stop at lunch and supercharge an extra 150 miles of range in 10 minutes or so, yes, more hassle but the savings per mile starts to add up, think about it, saving $20 a day on energy cost is huge and I won't even add in the temporary extra buck a ride they are offering for green rides. All of this will change in the not so distant future though!


Elons says you can drive for now and FSD will take over (and you just sit at home and collect the earnings).


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't find citations for cost but I did read about 2 limo companies, 1 in LA and one in Australia that use Tesla's for limo service. Their fleet experience was that the cost of operation with repairs and cost of vehicle included was something like 1/2 the cost of an equivalent ice vehicle. EV Milestone: Tesla limo service surpasses 1 million kilometers driven
> 
> There are so many fewer moving parts, no oil changes, starters, alternators, belts, gaskets brakes replaced maybe every 150K miles if you use the regenrative brakes. (I tend to need front brakes every 50K or so on my van). Yes, parts are expensive. Battery is 15K, door handle is 1200 I think, electronics probably a fortune. The battery is warrantied to lose no more than 15% capacity over 8 years (and has an expectation of being able to handle 6K full charge cycles), rest of the car for 4 years. Electronics go on any car and it's expensive, hence why a 10 year old Mercedes is worthless. Tires are substantially more expensive for an EV. They have to be rated for a higher weight load (Tesla 3 requires roughly1600 lbs load vs. 1200 lb load for many tires and they may need to be replaced as soon as every 40K miles.
> 
> It costs me 4 cents a mile in electricity to operate a Tesla 3. If I had an equivalent Toyota Avalon hybrid I would be spending 12 cents a mile for gas. Given that the Tesla is "overpriced" about 10K (compared to an equivalent sedan in my humble opinion) it really comes down to how much you are going to drive the car. I don't think you really see any savings till you've driven 100K miles. What does the future hold, who knows. At some point people will be rebuilding or refurbishing batteries, used electronic parts may be available from junkyards, parts may be available from OEM suppliers (for example, I can buy a set of front led headlights new for $325 from the Chinese manufacturer right on ebay or I can buy them from Tesla for 1K).


People already are rebuilding batteries.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

I spotted a Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car today at a red light.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

forqalso said:


> I spotted a Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car today at a red light.
> View attachment 659678


Oh great !
They Explode . . . Like HYDROGEN BOMBS !
" HEAVY WATER"
" H- BOMB " !


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Meanwhile . . . In Another DEATH TRAP TESLA !


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

tohunt4me said:


> Meanwhile . . . In Another DEATH TRAP TESLA !
> 
> View attachment 659687


Right, so how did they determine he was conscious and was trying to open the car door? Also, why did he not pull the manual release? Looks like just more anti-EV FUD.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

forqalso said:


> I spotted a Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car today at a red light.
> View attachment 659678


If one of these goes, its a chain reaction... The whole BLOCK goes!

Michael Bay should direct the documentary.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

An estimated 212,500 vehicle fires caused 560 civilian deaths,1,500 civilian injuries; and $1.9 billion in direct property damage in the US during 2018. - https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/...nd-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf
But people want to focus on the few Tesla fires.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

OldBay said:


> If one of these goes, its a chain reaction... The whole BLOCK goes!
> 
> Michael Bay should direct the documentary.


A conventional gasoline fuel tank has three to four times the explosive power of a hydrogen tank.


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## p7wang (12 mo ago)

2023 Chevy Bolt EV, EUV Get Major Price Cuts to Stay Competitive


Each model is about $6,000 less expensive than last year.




www.cnet.com


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