# Does it pay to lurk offline till a surge happens?



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Lurking around offline with the backlight going to watch the heat map till it surges?


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## awtprod (Jul 1, 2017)

Yes. If I'm driving during a high demand time and in high demand area and there's no surge/PT, I'm waiting offline.


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

YES. If everyone logged off and waited for a surge it would surging all the time...


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

RussellP said:


> YES. If everyone logged off and waited for a surge it would surging all the time...


Too many ants out there!


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## Loubie1130 (Nov 9, 2017)

RussellP said:


> YES. If everyone logged off and waited for a surge it would surging all the time...


I was sitting at the airport thinking this very thing yesterday! I watched myself going door to door in the staging area asking each driver to turn off their app. We could drive surges this way. Then one by one we turn the app back on and ride the big wave of surges! We need to "organize". I mean UBER uses surges in similar ways, right?


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

it would be impossible to get drivers to do this. we're all very independent people. no one will agree to a self imposed queing system to log in one at a time... but it should be pretty common sense. you lose money on every non-surge ride. don't take them. me personally... i have surgechaser alerts set to 2x. i stay logged off until it's 2x or higher. I make about the same amount of money as i would taking min-fares all night long and i put 1/10th of the time and mileage in. It took me over a year of doing this to figure out that's how to make money. i wish all drivers would just know this... but at any given time probably 25% of the drivers on the road are newbs in the first week and they dont know this yet. we can't stop it. it's the newbs that kill the surges. like if you're the only car online in an area, why stay logged in? you're just gonna get a non-surge ride. if you just log out for a few mins, a surge will likely start. stay logged off as long as you can (monitoring other the other drivers)... login at the peak surge... wait until it drops below your threshold for minimums then log back out. i've seen many cases where i logged out when it got down to 1.7x after not getting any pings, and then the surge goes back up... if i was to just stay logged in, it would kill the surge completely. you have to massage the surge.


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## bpm45 (May 22, 2017)

I think it helps somewhat but as long as the app is running even though you're offline Uber still knows where you are and where you're headed. I suspect that there is some anticipatory supply calculation that goes into surge determinations.


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Lurking around offline with the backlight going to watch the heat map till it surges?


It really don't matter. Uber knows you better than you do. Just go sit on a surge and Uber will start throwing pings at you. Every time you don't accept the next one is slightly higher.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

RussellP said:


> YES. If everyone logged off and waited for a surge it would surging all the time...


And it would then disappear when they all went online to take advantage of it. A few get the rides while the rest wasted their time staying offline to help the few lottery winners.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

During busy days like weekend nights, I can pretty much predict when the surge times start to hit from experience. The biggest thing that will screw you, in my market at least, is the non-surge rides that people request before surge times will almost invariably take you miles out into the boonies assuring you WILL miss out on any surge before you can get back to the action.

Also, during concerts or events (not the super large ones - avoid those nightmares), shrewd pax order their ride just before the event ends and you can screw yourself out of easy money by taking a ns ride too early here. This can sneak up on you so try to know when these events are going on, when they end and the kind of ping this is (far-away request to a busy area that should be covered is a good hint). Base rates are just too low not to look out for yourself. Play the game or let the game play you.


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## Rickshaw (Jun 30, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Lurking around offline with the backlight going to watch the heat map till it surges?


"Lurking" is the wrong word. It connotes something shady. Being situation-aware is just good business practice. Nothing wrong with maximizing profit/watching the bottomline.


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## pegasimotors (Apr 13, 2017)

Rickshaw said:


> "Lurking" is the wrong word. It connotes something shady. Being situation-aware is just good business practice. Nothing wrong with maximizing profit/watching the bottomline.


It is shady. That is why Uber is ending it. They are the only ones allowed to lurk (watch you offline) on their platform and your phone.
Everyone else needs to be a good any and go earn maximum profits for their investors and self driving car R&D


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## bpm45 (May 22, 2017)

I avoid stacked requests. It seems that one will come in for a 1.1x but then when I wait till the current ride is over I'll find myself in a surge much greater.


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## jaystonepk (Oct 30, 2017)

mrpjfresh said:


> The biggest thing that will screw you, in my market at least, is the non-surge rides that people request before surge times will almost invariably take you miles out into the boonies assuring you WILL miss out on any surge before you can get back to the action.


Exactly this! Got a ping just south of a college campus going 12 minutes south to a local casino. As soon as I dropped off the pax the area 2-3 minutes north of the campus I was just at starts surging 2x and above. MOTHER ****ER! I stay online and start heading north in case I can get close to the surge zone and 2 minutes from the outer zone I get a NS ping to the west. ANGRY WORDS!

Looking out for your bottom line is key so lurking, monitoring, and/or being aware is fine by me. I've been guilty of going online too quickly from events as I started seeing a gaggle of people milling about with people taking rides but no surge on the map. I figure that I don't want to miss a ride so go online with destination set and get a base fare for like $5-$6 three events in a row and as usual, no tip. Earlier that week I had just gone 10 replies deep with CS over a disputed $4 from a promotion so I started to wonder if the app was simply shafting me and not showing surge on the heat map.


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## Section1Guy (Dec 6, 2017)

So I'm one of these newb drivers in his first week... I understand staying offline and going online, but how the heck do you stay offline until a surge if you don't know when/where it is yet? 

I don't see it in the app unless I go online, right? What am I missing?


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## pegasimotors (Apr 13, 2017)

Section1Guy said:


> So I'm one of these newb drivers in his first week... I understand staying offline and going online, but how the heck do you stay offline until a surge if you don't know when/where it is yet?
> 
> I don't see it in the app unless I go online, right? What am I missing?


As of right now you CAN see a surge if you are offline (at least in my market) sometimes you may have to zoom in a little. 
You just have to observe over time and you will notice trends about surging. 
Then you put yourself in a situation to be in the right place at the right time and go online when surge is above 1.5-2.0x or whatever you want.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Loubie1130 said:


> I was sitting at the airport thinking this very thing yesterday! I watched myself going door to door in the staging area asking each driver to turn off their app. We could drive surges this way. Then one by one we turn the app back on and ride the big wave of surges! We need to "organize". I mean UBER uses surges in similar ways, right?


THAT is what got the guys from LA deactivated. As far as I know if an individual decides to lurk offline until a surge pops up, UBER will not penalize you. HOWEVER, when a large (don't ask me what the threshold is) group of drivers do it simultaneously it is considered manipulation and THAT is what can get you deactivated. For instance what if you've been sitting home and you turn on your app and see that there is a 3.0 surge right on top of you? You turn on the app and decide to drive. NO problem with that.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

You need to stay away from the other drivers, because nothing good comes from that!

Drivers steal each others trade secrets and exploits one another. Let alone conspiring questionable activity.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

kdyrpr said:


> THAT is what got the guys from LA deactivated. As far as I know if an individual decides to lurk offline until a surge pops up, UBER will not penalize you. HOWEVER, when a large (don't ask me what the threshold is) group of drivers do it simultaneously it is considered manipulation and THAT is what can get you deactivated. For instance what if you've been sitting home and you turn on your app and see that there is a 3.0 surge right on top of you? You turn on the app and decide to drive. NO problem with that.


The new system that's being piloted in Charlotte will eliminate this. You will have to be online to see the surge and you will have to be physically located in the surge to get paid for it. Surge is rarely on top of where I live, but it's often close enough that I can get pinged to it. No more chilling at home unless you live in the hotspot.


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## Rickshaw (Jun 30, 2017)

kdyrpr said:


> THAT is what got the guys from LA deactivated. As far as I know if an individual decides to lurk offline until a surge pops up, UBER will not penalize you. HOWEVER, when a large (don't ask me what the threshold is) group of drivers do it simultaneously it is considered manipulation and THAT is what can get you deactivated. For instance what if you've been sitting home and you turn on your app and see that there is a 3.0 surge right on top of you? You turn on the app and decide to drive. NO problem with that.


Let's clarify this though. The LA problem was that the group of drivers were inside the geofence of LAX and were on queue. Should not be a problem (manipulation) had they go offline outside of LAX or did so individually , without consulting one another going offline as a group (conspiracy).



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> You need to stay away from the other drivers, because nothing good comes from that!
> 
> Drivers steal each others trade secrets and exploits one another. Let alone conspiring questionable activity.


Not true.

I have been helped by drivers and I have helped other drivers.

Re: stealing/exploiting/conspiring, if you have that attitude, or think this is the case, you should be banned from UP.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Rickshaw said:


> Not true.
> 
> I have been helped by drivers and I have helped other drivers.
> 
> Re: stealing/exploiting/conspiring, if you have that attitude, or think this is the case, you should be banned from UP.


Dumbazz,
I have been around for along time in the taxi industry, long before Uber and smartphones existed.


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## the ferryman (Jun 7, 2016)

I’ve got what I think will be a few weeks before my next professional engagement. I’ve been hitting the road hard on both U/L. I only do XL/Plus. I remember when there was a surge on in Waikiki in the morning one day, uncharacteristic for the hour though usually busy then. Bright red on the screen, not a ping. Surge ends and bam! First ping declined, because I was a little huffy about the cheapness of the sob. Next quick ping accepted, though a call made to clarify pick up point went unanswered, dropped that one. Seconds later 3rd ping and off I was to the airport.

Point being surges are great if you get them. Lot of cheapos out there make it tough in my area. I don’t chase any surge or power zone or prime time in general. If I get it then it’s just luck or gravy. With all the new drivers it’s tough just getting rides usually.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

the ferryman said:


> I've got what I think will be a few weeks before my next professional engagement. I've been hitting the road hard on both U/L. I only do XL/Plus. I remember when there was a surge on in Waikiki in the morning one day, uncharacteristic for the hour though usually busy then. Bright red on the screen, not a ping. Surge ends and bam! First ping declined, because I was a little huffy about the cheapness of the sob. Next quick ping accepted, though a call made to clarify pick up point went unanswered, dropped that one. Seconds later 3rd ping and off I was to the airport.
> 
> Point being surges are great if you get them. Lot of cheapos out there make it tough in my area. I don't chase any surge or power zone or prime time in general. If I get it then it's just luck or gravy. With all the new drivers it's tough just getting rides usually.


You have to know your market. Generally the only time you get surge XL pings with people going to or from events or the bar, mostly from. If it's at an odd hour of the day chances are you won't get a surge XL ping, but you have a good chance of getting a surged X ping, which can pay more than a base rate XL. I usually drive on XL/Plus only on the weekend, but will opt down to X/Lyft if the market for a surged XL isn't there.


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## Jerry Frasier (Dec 11, 2017)

RussellP said:


> me personally... i have surgechaser alerts set to 2x. i stay logged off until it's 2x or higher.


What exactly do you mean, "surgechaser alert" ?


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## Murry (Dec 20, 2017)

I usually drive part time. When big events are in such as lightning games, rays, bucs etc. Too many drivers to do full time.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

bpm45 said:


> I think it helps somewhat but as long as the app is running even though you're offline Uber still knows where you are and where you're headed. I suspect that there is some anticipatory supply calculation that goes into surge determinations.


Yes, uber knows where u live, what time u take a crap, what u had for dinner. It's quite scary how they keep track of u. Just cuz u are offline doesn't mean they don't know. They have data from the time u took ur first drive.


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## Wrb06wrx (Sep 20, 2017)

I usually go offline when its surging after i accept a request to try to help keep surge alive in the info screen there is an option to stop new requests usually theyre shorties anyway but by doing this it lessens the chance of getting a non surge request on my way back to surge zone


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