# Drive Safe & Save Discount - State Farm



## PTB

State Farm keeps asking me for odometer reading to retain the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE DISCOUNT.
I have NOT responded to either emails or phone calls from them as the 
mileage would be a dead giveaway that I drive for Uber.


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## Choochie

PTB said:


> State Farm keeps asking me for odometer reading to retain the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE DISCOUNT.
> I have NOT responded to either emails or phone calls from them as the
> mileage would be a dead giveaway that I drive for Uber.


Don't they get the mileage when you do the annual inspection?


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## PTB

6 month policy
no annual inspections
they send you a renewal notice every six months

if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount

National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle 
I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


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## Chicago-uber

Looks like it's time for you to switch to a different insurance co.


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## Choochie

PTB said:


> 6 month policy
> no annual inspections
> they send you a renewal notice every six months
> 
> if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
> if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount
> 
> National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle
> I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


You could be doing any sales job in a large territory.


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## observer

PTB said:


> 6 month policy
> no annual inspections
> they send you a renewal notice every six months
> 
> if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
> if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount
> 
> National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle
> I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


Holy c......


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## observer

observer said:


> Holy c......


Cow


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## observer

PTB said:


> 6 month policy
> no annual inspections
> they send you a renewal notice every six months
> 
> if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
> if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount
> 
> National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle
> I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


They also get the mileage when you do your smog check. At least AAA was able to access my vehicles smog info, not sure about other insurance companies.


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## observer

Choochie said:


> You could be doing any sales job in a large territory.


They ask what kind of job you do. When I renewed my insurance I was asked what my specific job was, Sales jobs with 70K miles per year would be very suspect. They may require you to pay for business insurance because of excess mileage PROBABLY not reported at time insurance coverage was issued.


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## Fuzzyelvis

I 


PTB said:


> 6 month policy
> no annual inspections
> they send you a renewal notice every six months
> 
> if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
> if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount
> 
> National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle
> I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


I guess that's why they've never tried to enroll me. 23 years with them and I think the lowest mileage I've ever had on a vehicle is 23000 in a year I didn't use my car to work. Most have been over 30000 and some a lot more. But that's Houston for you.


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## Huberis

observer said:


> Holy c......


I was thinking more like "Holy Shit" That guy has a lot of miles for six months driving. If you want to know why local municipalities are starting to crack down with ordinances, permits and the like,PTB is living proof of one example.

Choochie He could be doing some sort of regional sales job, but he isn't.


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## observer

Huberis said:


> I was thinking more like "Holy Shit" That guy has a lot of miles for six months driving. If you want to know why local municipalities are starting to crack down with ordinances, permits and the like,PTB is living proof of one example.
> 
> Choochie He could be doing some sort of regional sales job, but he isn't.


I had same thought, that isn't some part time Uber job. No wonder insurance companies are worried about their added risk in coverimg rideshare.

I cleaned up my first post a little. I did have your original thought too...


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## Choochie

Huberis said:


> I was thinking more like "Holy Shit" That guy has a lot of miles for six months driving. If you want to know why local municipalities are starting to crack down with ordinances, permits and the like,PTB is living proof of one example.
> 
> Choochie He could be doing some sort of regional sales job, but he isn't.


I can't imagine they will ask for his w-2. 
He probably isn't driving more than 6-8 hrs day perhaps 175 miles. You could drive 120 miles per day in a small area like MA just going to work in an office.


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## Huberis

Choochie said:


> I can't imagine they will ask for his w-2.
> He probably isn't driving more than 6-8 hrs day perhaps 175 miles. You could drive 120 miles per day in a small area like MA just going to work in an office.


It could represent a radical change in driving habits which may or may not trigger them to ask the question why? The bottom line is, a carrier expects the people they cover to be honest and transparent. He isn't doing that. If they guy is driving a ton of miles, fairly intense miles....... There is a hell of a good chance he is at risk of needed to make a claim at some point.

Broward Co/Orlando, OKC and the State of New Jersey (I believe the entire state) have been in the news just this week over taking regulation enforcement to a more local or municipal level. Too many loopholes, Uber isn't willing to follow through with ensuring drivers are in compliance, PUC agencies aren't able to keep up with any kind of enforcement.........

So, here is this thread. This thread isn't about, how do I bring myself into compliance in a reasonable or practical manner, but about prolonging the collective torture, which will only bring about harsher regulatory control.

The OP is looking to further his obfuscation. This might be a good time to get off that train. It seems as if municipalities are being brought to speed.


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## Choochie

Huberis said:


> The OP is looking to further his obfuscation. This might be a good time to get off that train.


Agreed. This goes for many drivers.


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## Lidman

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I
> 
> I guess that's why they've never tried to enroll me. 23 years with them and I think the lowest mileage I've ever had on a vehicle is 23000 in a year I didn't use my car to work. Most have been over 30000 and some a lot more. But that's Houston for you.


Why don't you offer them some free pizza. That sometimes works with the cops and getting out of speeding tickets.


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## Huberis

Choochie said:


> Agreed. This goes for many drivers.


Drivers have been doing that for the benefit of Travis and Co. Most drivers don't seem to really grasp what they are risking. That is reasonable, just like you don't know what it feels like to drown until you you slip under the water.

Uber and Uber drivers aren't going to be able to claim there are no insurance options for much longer. Hybrid insurance is coming out though far from inexpensive. MM is coming online which allows you to be compliant with most regulations but rather at the mercy of James River and Travis..... Uber has always tried to be swifter than Lyft and regulation and ordinances, they are running out of running room.

No doubt the OP is a good guy, but it seems he wants advice on how to prolong his torture........ It is hard for me to encourage someone to put their neck so far out on the chopping block. Uber will pay your fine to defy a local ordinance, but they wont fix your car. When does it end?


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## Choochie

Huberis said:


> Drivers have been doing that for the benefit of Travis and Co. Most drivers don't seem to really grasp what they are risking. That is reasonable, just like you don't know what it feels like to drown until you you slip under the water.
> 
> Uber and Uber drivers aren't going to be able to claim there are no insurance options for much longer. Hybrid insurance is coming out though far from inexpensive. MM is coming online which allows you to be compliant with most regulations but rather at the mercy of James River and Travis..... Uber has always tried to be swifter than Lyft and regulation and ordinances, they are running out of running room.
> 
> No doubt the OP is a good guy, but it seems he wants advice on how to prolong his torture........ It is hard for me to encourage someone to put their neck so far out on the chopping block. Uber will pay your fine to defy a local ordinance, but they wont fix your car. When does it end?


There are many people who will steal, sell drugs, cheat, panhandle and on and on to survive. This is no different. The economy is stagnant, some folks are too old to compete for the jobs, etc. I can't blame them - it all comes down to risk. I think most know but are willing to gamble.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Lidman said:


> Why don't you offer them some free pizza. That sometimes works with the cops and getting out of speeding tickets.


I haven't had ANY ticket since 1998. I THINK 3 tickets my entire life. I barely ever speed and when pulled over for a tail light out or so on I'm polite and don't argue. Plus I'm a white female with blonde hair and big boobs.

I did once imply that I was a lesbian when a female (obviously gay) cop pulled me over.

So not too many tickets.


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## Lidman

I guess im only driver that's ever speeded like 32 in 25.


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## Guest

PTB said:


> 6 month policy
> no annual inspections
> they send you a renewal notice every six months
> 
> if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
> if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount
> 
> National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle
> I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


Yes I'm scared as well in PA, looks like the insurance company's are catching on.


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## Tony_2015

Of course insurance companies and regulators are catching on! The question is why is Uber not catching on? 

All it would be is a minor correction in the market. I mean, consumers have spoken, they want the convenience of using their phone to rideshare and drivers are here to meet the need, but there has to be changes:
1) Uber has to charge adequate rates to support the purchase sufficient coverage (commercial auto including loss of use, and workers comp), and
2) We need the ambiguities of Uber's insurance policy to be cleared up (James River needs to clearly state what they will cover and what they will not, none of this bullshit... "driver files claim first and when declined we cover"), and
3) Insurance companies need to draft policy language to coordinate coverage with Uber's James River policy, and they need to make the products available (and enough of them competing to ensure an efficient market with competitive pricing).

The way I see it, Uber is the largest organized insurance scam in history, and the cost is being passed to the personal lines insurance carriers, and ultimately the customers. We all know the insurance companies are going to make profit or raise their rates, and the excess driving in mileage does result in a increased likelihood of a claim. Period. And the carrier does have a right to know the activity they are being exposed to, or it is fraud. There is just no other way to describe the action of what the drivers are doing to the insurance companies. 

Uber needs to step up, or the regulators will cave under pressure from the insurance companies, and set legislation of what the requirements should be in the same fashion as they have done for the highly regulated cab laws.


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## Huberis

Tony_2015 said:


> Of course insurance companies and regulators are catching on! The question is why is Uber not catching on?
> 
> All it would be is a minor correction in the market. I mean, consumers have spoken, they want the convenience of using their phone to rideshare and drivers are here to meet the need, but there has to be changes:
> 1) Uber has to charge adequate rates to support the purchase sufficient coverage (commercial auto including loss of use, and workers comp), and
> 2) We need the ambiguities of Uber's insurance policy to be cleared up (James River needs to clearly state what they will cover and what they will not, none of this bullshit... "driver files claim first and when declined we cover"), and
> 3) Insurance companies need to draft policy language to coordinate coverage with Uber's James River policy, and they need to make the products available (and enough of them competing to ensure an efficient market with competitive pricing).
> 
> The way I see it, Uber is the largest organized insurance scam in history, and the cost is being passed to the personal lines insurance carriers, and ultimately the customers. We all know the insurance companies are going to make profit or raise their rates, and the excess driving in mileage does result in a increased likelihood of a claim. Period. And the carrier does have a right to know the activity they are being exposed to, or it is fraud. There is just no other way to describe the action of what the drivers are doing to the insurance companies.
> 
> Uber needs to step up, or the regulators will cave under pressure from the insurance companies, and set legislation of what the requirements should be in the same fashion as they have done for the highly regulated cab laws.


The rates Uber charges per mile are a slap in the face of any driver. Clearly, at the current rate structure, most drivers couldn't begin to afford proper insurance.

That said, most drivers don't even comply to the degree of disclosure with their provider. Raising the rates in and of itself will not get any more drivers properly protected or bring them into compliance.

When you suggest "Insurance companies need to draft policy language to coordinate coverage with Uber's JR policy...." That seems naive. They dont have to do that. Metro Mile is out there, it seems to attempt something like that, but MM doesn't strike me as all that great for several reasons.

I don't know if Uber is the largest insurance scam in history, but it is one hell of a scam. I agree with that paragraph. That being said- I don't agree with the language of "regulators will cave under pressure from......" Regulations are intended to step in and protect the public. The regulators would be doing their job. How well they do their job remains to be seen. They don't have an easy task.


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## Huberis

PTB said:


> 6 month policy
> no annual inspections
> they send you a renewal notice every six months
> 
> if you enroll in their DRIVE SAFE & SAVE program you receive a discount after you SELF-REPORT the odometer
> if you do NOT enroll in the DRIVE SAFE & SAVE, you obviously do NOT receive the discount
> 
> National average: 12,000 miles driven annually per vehicle
> I have driven approx. 35,000 miles in 6 months


How the hell do you have so many miles? One of our taxis is driven about 80 to 110,000 a year. That is with the car being driven a lot. 70,000 miles for one person seems like a ton of miles for just one person.

You must be working pretty damn hard. That is impressive. Did you give the, the OD yet? Seems to me, you need to give them the OD, you can't get around that........ Stalling or avoiding communication may not look good in their eyes. That in combination with the high miles looks even more suspicious.


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## Casuale Haberdasher

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I haven't had ANY ticket since 1998. I THINK 3 tickets my entire life. I barely ever speed and when pulled over for a tail light out or so on I'm polite and don't argue. Plus I'm a white female with blonde hair and big boobs.
> 
> I did once imply that I was a lesbian when a female (obviously gay) cop pulled me over.
> 
> So not too many tickets.


POST # 19 /Fuzzyelvis : B-b-b-bisonic
Bostonian is Curious!
You taunt us with Voluptuous Descrip-
tion yet leave us with Pictures of Tom
Kitty for an Avatar? At least Ms."9800
Rides" Catherine Purcell,
gave us 
her best "Catholic High School Girl in
Trouble" Look in "Have you seen me"
Thread in News Forum.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Tony_2015 said:


> Of course insurance companies and regulators are catching on! The question is why is Uber not catching on?
> 
> All it would be is a minor correction in the market. I mean, consumers have spoken, they want the convenience of using their phone to rideshare and drivers are here to meet the need, but there has to be changes:
> 1) Uber has to charge adequate rates to support the purchase sufficient coverage (commercial auto including loss of use, and workers comp), and
> 2) We need the ambiguities of Uber's insurance policy to be cleared up (James River needs to clearly state what they will cover and what they will not, none of this bullshit... "driver files claim first and when declined we cover"), and
> 3) Insurance companies need to draft policy language to coordinate coverage with Uber's James River policy, and they need to make the products available (and enough of them competing to ensure an efficient market with competitive pricing).
> 
> The way I see it, Uber is the largest organized insurance scam in history, and the cost is being passed to the personal lines insurance carriers, and ultimately the customers. We all know the insurance companies are going to make profit or raise their rates, and the excess driving in mileage does result in a increased likelihood of a claim. Period. And the carrier does have a right to know the activity they are being exposed to, or it is fraud. There is just no other way to describe the action of what the drivers are doing to the insurance companies.
> 
> Uber needs to step up, or the regulators will cave under pressure from the insurance companies, and set legislation of what the requirements should be in the same fashion as they have done for the highly regulated cab laws.


POST # 22 / Tony_2015 : Bison exclaims:
"Sing it Brother!"
Welcome to the UP.Net Forums.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 19 /Fuzzyelvis : B-b-b-bisonic
> Bostonian is Curious!
> You taunt us with Voluptuous Descrip-
> tion yet leave us with Pictures of Tom
> Kitty for an Avatar? At least Ms."9800
> Rides" Catherine Purcell,
> gave us
> her best "Catholic High School Girl in
> Trouble" Look in "Have you seen me"
> Thread in News Forum.


Well you know what the 2 rules to keep 'em interested are:

1. Never give out all the information.


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## Casuale Haberdasher

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Well you know what the 2 rules to keep 'em interested are:
> 
> 1. Never give out all the information.


POST # 27 / Fuzzyelvis: Bison is chort-
ling with Your
"Two"Rules. Certainly, you COULD
give Consideration to Providing the
Passport-Type Photo as recently Re-
Avatared MrsUberJax (a Bison Fol-
lower) has done.

Yeah, yeah..Male Members expect that
any Photo Submissions will NOT require
Your Cautioning "My eyes are Up Here!"


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## Tony_2015

Huberis said:


> The rates Uber charges per mile are a slap in the face of any driver. Clearly, at the current rate structure, most drivers couldn't begin to afford proper insurance.
> 
> That said, most drivers don't even comply to the degree of disclosure with their provider. Raising the rates in and of itself will not get any more drivers properly protected or bring them into compliance.
> 
> When you suggest "Insurance companies need to draft policy language to coordinate coverage with Uber's JR policy...." *That seems naive. They dont have to do that. * Metro Mile is out there, it seems to attempt something like that, but MM doesn't strike me as all that great for several reasons.
> 
> I don't know if Uber is the largest insurance scam in history, but it is one hell of a scam. I agree with that paragraph. That being said- I don't agree with the language of "regulators will cave under pressure from......" Regulations are intended to step in and protect the public. The regulators would be doing their job. How well they do their job remains to be seen. They don't have an easy task.


I disagree. The policy language does not exist in all states, as MM does not operate in all states. Going all the way back to the McCarran Ferguson Act, insurance is regulated by the states. Some states allow for file and use, and some states require prior approval. This will help you determining laws governing your state: http://www.myfloridacfo.com/hurricaneinsurancetaskforce/taskforcers2/appendix5/5iipa10.pdf

Another thing that really bothers me is the JR policy is Excess to the driver's policy. As an insurance underwriter by trade and training, this bothers me. A lot. Uber needs to step up and either pay the driver an amount necessary to cover the cost of proper insurance (as much as $10k per year in some states for auto, and ~ 8% of wage to driver for workers comp), or provide coverage on a primary basis. I

Furthermore, the fact JR/Uber's policy is not clear as to when the coverage applies: 1) when app is on 2) when in route to pick up passenger, and 3) when passenger is on board. And if this coverage is Primary, Contributory, or Excess. As far as I can tell it is Excess... I say that because James River is Non-Admitted in all states but one, and every state statute I can find requires all primary auto insurance to be on an Admitted basis. If I could get my hands on the full policy in lieu of the certificate I have seen, I could answer this question.

I think IF the JR policy wold act as primary coverage for the driver when at least items 2 & 3 above are occurring, and IF there would be a binding agreement in place between Uber and the driver as to responsibility, then more admitted auto insurance companies would develop products knowing that they could subrogate against Uber in the event payment is made based on damage occurring during the time the app was on, or whatever the was contractually binding agreement becomes. That is if the hold harmless agreement the driver signs doesn't get in the way.

As it is right now, all the drivers are using their current insurance as primary, and JR as secondary. I say it is the largest organized insurance fraud in history because every time a driver operates transporting passengers for hire/for profit without disclosure to their primary auto insurance company, then that is by definition fraud and constitutes material misrepresentation, and according to Uber this is happening 1,000,000 times per day. Can you think of any case of insurance fraud on this scale at any point in history? I've been in the insurance business for 15 years, and I am struggling to think of an example.

The Wisconsin bill signed on Friday stating that "a $1 million insurance requirement for vehicles with passengers" could be the start of what I mentioned above. I have yet to read the bill, but I doubt that was written with the intent of accepting Uber's policy as "Excess" over the drivers policy. This would start the inevitable landslide of Uber's upcoming insurance dilemma. Again, I'm not a driver, but I do have my popcorn ready to watch all this unfold.

Bottom line, either Uber needs to provide Primary Auto coverage, or they need to charge rates sufficient to support the purchase of adequate insurance by the drivers. Although, I do stand behind that statement wholeheartedly, I also agree that alone will not ensure the drivers will obtain the coverage on their own. This will require some oversight, either regulatory, or on Uber's part. Based on what I have seen in terms of regulators in the past, I would think eventually that will come in the form of regulation. Up to this point, what I have seen the officials do is odd to say the least, and I'm scratching my head that 1,000,000 rides per day are happening without the proper coverage. It's perplexing me beyond belief.


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## Huberis

Tony_2015 said:


> I disagree. The policy language does not exist in all states, as MM does not operate in all states. Going all the way back to the McCarran Ferguson Act, insurance is regulated by the states. Some states allow for file and use, and some states require prior approval. This will help you determining laws governing your state: http://www.myfloridacfo.com/hurricaneinsurancetaskforce/taskforcers2/appendix5/5iipa10.pdf
> 
> Another thing that really bothers me is the JR policy is Excess to the driver's policy. As an insurance underwriter by trade and training, this bothers me. A lot. Uber needs to step up and either pay the driver an amount necessary to cover the cost of proper insurance (as much as $10k per year in some states for auto, and ~ 8% of wage to driver for workers comp), or provide coverage on a primary basis. I
> 
> Furthermore, the fact JR/Uber's policy is not clear as to when the coverage applies: 1) when app is on 2) when in route to pick up passenger, and 3) when passenger is on board. And if this coverage is Primary, Contributory, or Excess. As far as I can tell it is Excess... I say that because James River is Non-Admitted in all states but one, and every state statute I can find requires all primary auto insurance to be on an Admitted basis. If I could get my hands on the full policy in lieu of the certificate I have seen, I could answer this question.
> 
> I think IF the JR policy wold act as primary coverage for the driver when at least items 2 & 3 above are occurring, and IF there would be a binding agreement in place between Uber and the driver as to responsibility, then more admitted auto insurance companies would develop products knowing that they could subrogate against Uber in the event payment is made based on damage occurring during the time the app was on, or whatever the was contractually binding agreement becomes. That is if the hold harmless agreement the driver signs doesn't get in the way.
> 
> As it is right now, all the drivers are using their current insurance as primary, and JR as secondary. I say it is the largest organized insurance fraud in history because every time a driver operates transporting passengers for hire/for profit without disclosure to their primary auto insurance company, then that is by definition fraud and constitutes material misrepresentation, and according to Uber this is happening 1,000,000 times per day. Can you think of any case of insurance fraud on this scale at any point in history? I've been in the insurance business for 15 years, and I am struggling to think of an example.
> 
> The Wisconsin bill signed on Friday stating that "a $1 million insurance requirement for vehicles with passengers" could be the start of what I mentioned above. I have yet to read the bill, but I doubt that was written with the intent of accepting Uber's policy as "Excess" over the drivers policy. This would start the inevitable landslide of Uber's upcoming insurance dilemma. Again, I'm not a driver, but I do have my popcorn ready to watch all this unfold.
> 
> Bottom line, either Uber needs to provide Primary Auto coverage, or they need to charge rates sufficient to support the purchase of adequate insurance by the drivers. Although, I do stand behind that statement wholeheartedly, I also agree that alone will not ensure the drivers will obtain the coverage on their own. This will require some oversight, either regulatory, or on Uber's part. Based on what I have seen in terms of regulators in the past, I would think eventually that will come in the form of regulation. Up to this point, what I have seen the officials do is odd to say the least, and I'm scratching my head that 1,000,000 rides per day are happening without the proper coverage. It's perplexing me beyond belief.


I read through this post very quickly....... I'm working. I didn't mean to imply MM was the only option. There is hybrid insurance and livery insurance.

Personal insurance providers in my opinion don't need to work with Uber or James River on anything........ This should be the territory of MM, hybrid providers and livery insurance providers.

The insurance is out there. There is no excuse for drivers not to have their asses covered. Personal policies are for people not driving livery.


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## Hondaguy7643

I've been worrying a lot about what would happen if I was in a wreck while driving with Uber.

Uber is just a part time for me. It's meant to bring in extra income, but if I have to get commercial insurance to provide full coverage in every aspect, then it probably won't be worth it for me at all. 

As it stands I've driven for about 2 months (since March 1st) and made about $320 per month. That is after counting gas and maintenance cost for my car. Since Uber is part time I don't factor insurance or car note because my main job already covers that.

Making $320 a month extra is great but if a commercial insurance policy is going to run me any more than $100 a month (and I'm even hesitant with that) then it wouldn't even be worth it to me personally.


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