# Fake Service Dog Pays



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.

I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K

She tells me that her dog is in training for therapy. The dog took the seat next to her, then leaving hair.

I dinged her 1-star, and reported her. Uber sends me $20.00


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Sounds fair, especially since you could have rejected her for saying its a therapy dog. Sounds like an easy $20


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

I have a niece; young and pretty and apparently healthy.
She is diabetic. Like few people are diabetic. She goes into diabetic shock in seconds. She will test now and it will be 100, an hour later with nothing changing, she is in an ambulance with a blood sugar above 300.
She now has a dog. Has had Grouper for a couple of years now. A dash hound. He can smell the chemical changes in her body, and warn her that she is about to faceplant. When he gives the signal, she goes into immediate action. He has saved her a couple of times. 
May have saved her life.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> I have a niece; young and pretty and apparently healthy.
> She is diabetic. Like few people are diabetic. She goes into diabetic shock in seconds. She will test now and it will be 100, an hour later with nothing changing, she is in an ambulance with a blood sugar above 300.
> She now has a dog. Has had Grouper for a couple of years now. A dash hound. He can smell the chemical changes in her body, and warn her that she is about to faceplant. When he gives the signal, she goes into immediate action. He has saved her a couple of times.
> May have saved her life.


Exactly!! There are dogs that do similar things for folks who are prone to seizures; these people look like you and me and everyone else, there is no way to SEE what their disability is.

I'm so glad your niece has Grouper!!


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.

Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Sounds fair, especially since you could have rejected her for saying its a therapy dog. Sounds like an easy $20


No, I was pressured to pick her and the dog up. If I would have cancelled, then she would have raised hell and had me deactivated.

She told me that her Pet Deposit was waived at the apartment complex where I picked her up at. In the conversation, I sensed her lying about a couple of things unrelated.
*
COPY of WRITE UP:*

*Share Additional Details*: Dog hair. This was a fraudulent service dog trip. Rider said it was in training, yet used the seat instead of the floor. I asked what service does it perform, she says, "therapy in training." True service animals are not in training. I request compensation for cleaning. Thanks.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


Emotional support dogs are NOT Service Dogs. Their owners may have certain rights regarding them when it comes to housing in some states, but they are not covered by the ADA.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Emotional support dogs must be allowed in housing and on airplanes but businesses do not need to accept them


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


Emotional Support Dogs ("EMS" or "comfort dogs") aren't Service Dogs; EMS dogs are a separate and less regulated genre. Uber has no [easy] way of differentiating (or won't go to the lengths necessary to differentiate), which is why drivers must accept ALL dogs, regardless of their category (Service Dog vs. Emotional Support Dog)

There ARE legitimate service dogs that provide help and comfort to war veterans and others with PTSD, but again, they are not Emotional Support Dogs. They are licensed Service Dogs.

Anyone can go online and get their dog certified as an Emotional Support Dog. These dogs aren't trained to do anything specific, their owners need them for various comforting reasons (and again, this is an unregulated, very controversial issue since literally anyone can get a certificate and red vest online for their dog and claim that the dog is an ESD.)

Service Dogs are a whole other animal (pun intended), and these dogs can legally go anywhere their human owner goes. Seeing eye dogs, dogs that help those in wheelchairs, dogs that sense oncoming seizures, and dogs that are trained to sense a diabetic's blood sugar level dropping are Service Dogs. Their presence EVERYWHERE humans are allowed is protected under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) and it's against the the law to refuse entry to a Service Dog.


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## Scott Thatcher (Jul 8, 2017)

I have an emotional support dog, the only thing the law allows for him is to be accepted into apartments that do not allow animals and to fly on the plane with me. Neither of which has happened yet. With the exception of those 2 things, they are just like any other normal dog.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Scott Thatcher said:


> I have an emotional support dog, the only thing the law allows for him is to be accepted into apartments that do not allow animals and to fly on the plane with me. Neither of which has happened yet. With the exception of those 2 things, they are just like any other normal dog.


Well, you can definitely take them with you as a pax on an Uber ride!


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

The dog was wearing one just like this.

For $30.00, you can own one of these and deceive the public too!

https://www.thepuglifestore.com/pro...kM8jqYN3vuril036cUrczovzhCz5L1rMaAjbgEALw_wcB


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Housing is different than ground transportation. Ground transportation is different than air transportation.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

I will gladly take your 'Emotional Support' dog....the way I see things, I consider them Financial Support dogs when they leave dog hair on my seat and I get a cleaning fee for it.

Support your local Spray Wash/Quarter Vac establishment.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Merc7186 said:


> I will gladly take your 'Emotional Support' dog....the way I see things, I consider them Financial Support dogs when they leave dog hair on my seat and I get a cleaning fee for it.
> 
> Support your local Spray Wash/Quarter Vac establishment.


I don't know if Uber just paid me the 20 bucks, or took it from the pax account then paid me?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

nickd8775 said:


> Emotional support dogs must be allowed in housing and on airplanes but businesses do not need to accept them


They don't HAVE to be allowed on planes. The airlines just decided to allow this on their own, and it's actually a problem.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> They don't HAVE to be allowed on planes. The airlines just decided to allow this on their own, and it's actually a problem.


I took her to Greyhound bus station, and wished her goodluck.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Emotional Support Dogs ("EMS" or "comfort dogs") aren't Service Dogs; EMS dogs are a separate and less regulated genre. Uber has no [easy] way of differentiating (or won't go to the lengths necessary to differentiate), which is why drivers must accept ALL dogs, regardless of their category (Service Dog vs. Emotional Support Dog)
> 
> There is a way to differentiate. The two questions. The dogs trained to help with PTSD and other emotional/psychological issues DO have specific tasks they perform. Blocking, in a non-threatening manner, notifying the handler when anxiety is getting out of control so s/he can try to calm down or get to safety, provide pressure support (usually by lying on top of handler) when they feint to prevent panic when handler wakes up, etc., are just some tasks.
> 
> ESDs require no training. It's not about the dog, but rather about the owner. The owner gets a doctor to certify that they are substantially better off with a pet, and then they get a pet that they are particularly attached to and that becomes their emotional support animal. You can't be denied housing in some states because you have an emotional support animal. You can't be charged more rent, and you cannot be charged additional security deposit. For an emotional support animal, you do have to provide documentation of your disability. For a real service animal, you do not.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> I don't know if Uber just paid me the 20 bucks, or took it from the pax account then paid me?


If it was her first or second report, no. After that they get charged.


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## 4.9 forever (May 31, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> No, I was pressured to pick her and the dog up. If I would have cancelled, then she would have raised hell and had me deactivated.
> 
> She told me that her Pet Deposit was waived at the apartment complex where I picked her up at. In the conversation, I sensed her lying about a couple of things unrelated.
> *
> ...


Take all that hair out, and I still don't think I would get in that car. When was the last time you scrub it? This decade?


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## leroy jenkins (May 27, 2015)

no legal protection for a "therapy animal." ADA covers a "service animal" only. We've beaten this topic to death in the Chicago forum. Search if interested.

But ya, OP was in a lose-lose situation. Even though OP is 100% legally right to refuse that dog, pax would complain and OP might get temp. deactivated by a CSR in India. No matter what the law says.

Congrats for coming out $20 ahead.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> If it was her first or second report, no. After that they get charged.


Brand new 5-star account it was.

Was....


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Julescase said:


> Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


I know i've told this story before...

I have a regular customer with a service dog. (I honestly thought the service dog deal was 500% BS. I just honestly don't mind well behaved dogs and he's a cool guy, so I drove him on the assumption that A. (i'm allowed to take him and his dog even if it's not a service animal) and B. i like dogs. He still calls me for rides (but not as much as he used to tbh) and one time i was taking him to work one morning and he suddenly goes and says he needs to go to the emergency room.

He tips me really well gets out and next thing i know he's flopping on the ground seizing out right in front of the hospital ER doors. The security guard explained that his dog was trained to detect seizures before they happen.


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## Awesomeness101 (Jul 19, 2017)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


This is patently false. Comfort animals do not get protections by law.



Julescase said:


> Emotional Support Dogs ("EMS" or "comfort dogs") aren't Service Dogs; EMS dogs are a separate and less regulated genre. Uber has no [easy] way of differentiating (or won't go to the lengths necessary to differentiate), which is why drivers must accept ALL dogs, regardless of their category (Service Dog vs. Emotional Support Dog)
> 
> There ARE legitimate service dogs that provide help and comfort to war veterans and others with PTSD, but again, they are not Emotional Support Dogs. They are licensed Service Dogs.
> 
> ...


This is false. You do not have to accept support animals in your car. Only service animal


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

You guys are making distinctions that do not exist in practice. Dogs that are prescribed by psychiatrists are covered by the ADA, and you as an Uber driver are going to have no clue in the world how to identify them. They will be "trained" to perform a silly task like keeping the patient's anxiety level down in some dogly way.

The point made earlier is that you cannot possibly tell by a pax appearance or behavior if her dog is covered by the ADA. Also, state laws exist in addition to the ADA.

Learn this point well, because if a pax complains that you denied her service animal you will be deactivated without the pax needing to prove anything about her dog. This is just the kind of press that uber will do anything to avoid by gladly throwing a few drivers under the bus.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Awesomeness101 said:


> This is patently false. Comfort animals do not get protections by law.
> 
> This is false. You do not have to accept support animals in your car. Only service animal


Not wrong, this is 100% true. If you refuse ANY dog in your car, you're going to be deactivated.

That's the issue here - that is the entire problem. Drivers SHOULD be able to say no to ESDs but Uber has stated that drivers will be deactivated if they refuse any dog. There are countless threads on this forum started by drivers who refused animals and were immediately deactivated.

Uber has decided to err on the side of caution and it's all or be deactivated.


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## Awesomeness101 (Jul 19, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Not wrong, this is 100% true. If you refuse ANY dog in your car, you're going to be deactivated.
> 
> That's the issue here - that is the entire problem. Drivers SHOULD be able to say no to ESDs but Uber has stated that drivers will be deactivated if they refuse any dog. There are countless threads on this forum started by drivers who refused animals and were immediately deactivated.
> 
> Uber has decided to err on the side of caution and it's all or be deactivated.


Again that's completely fabricated. Take a lap.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

You are legally allowed to ask the following questions

1) is the animal required for an disability.
2) what tasks is the animal trained to do.

If they answer NO to #1 it is not a service animal.
If they can't list specific service tasks for #2 it is not a service animal.

You should record any such conversation on video.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Dropking said:


> You guys are making distinctions that do not exist in practice. Dogs that are prescribed by psychiatrists are covered by the ADA, and you as an Uber driver are going to have no clue in the world how to identify them. They will be "trained" to do a silly task like keeping the patient's anxiety level down.
> 
> The point made earlier is that you cannot possibly tell by a pax appearance or behavior if her dog is covered by the ADA. Also, state laws exist in addition to the ADA.
> 
> Learn this point well, because if a pax complains that you denied her service animal you will be deactivated without the pax needing to prove anything about her dog. This is just the kind of press that uber will do anything to avoid by gladly throwing a few drivers under the bus.


You're incorrect; emotional support animals are NOT covered by the ADA. Only registered SERVICE animals are covered under the ADA. Below is the link and one of the very first questions and answers clearly explains this fact.

That's why the Uber issue is such a controversy- drivers legally should not be forced to accept ESAs in their cars if they don't want to, but Uber is too worried about being sued again since drivers don't have any good way of discerning between Service Animals and ESAs.

Seriously, every driver should educate themselves at the link. But also realize that Uber is telling drivers to accept BOTH service animals AND ESAs or risk deactivation.

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Not wrong, this is 100% true. If you refuse ANY dog in your car, you're going to be deactivated.
> 
> That's the issue here - that is the entire problem. Drivers SHOULD be able to say no to ESDs but Uber has stated that drivers will be deactivated if they refuse any dog. There are countless threads on this forum started by drivers who refused animals and were immediately deactivated.
> 
> Uber has decided to err on the side of caution and it's all or be deactivated.


pure BS. Where do you get this stuff?


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Here's the first section of the ADA's Service Animal link - it's pretty cut and dry as far as the LAW goes. Now, Uber on the other hand has decided to have their own regulations on the matter. As drivers we need to be aware of both.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Not wrong, this is 100% true. If you refuse ANY dog in your car, you're going to be deactivated.
> 
> That's the issue here - that is the entire problem. Drivers SHOULD be able to say no to ESDs but Uber has stated that drivers will be deactivated if they refuse any dog. There are countless threads on this forum started by drivers who refused animals and were immediately deactivated.
> 
> Uber has decided to err on the side of caution and it's all or be deactivated.


And if I was deactivated I would sue the ever-loving shit out of the Pax. I of course would have everything on a dashcam and would be able to prove that they were not able to answer the questions correctly. I would also be able to back it up with well over a Year's records of what is earned on the nights that I worked that would coincide with the day of the week I was deactivated for, and I would get an average amount of that out of the pax, as well as whatever I could get as far as punitive damages for slander, defamation of character, and abuse of the system. Then that pax would also be subject to whatever applicable fines or other possible punishments my state calls for when someone fraudulentlh claims an animal is a Service Animal. And they're cracking down now.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> pure BS. Where do you get this stuff?


Please go to the government link I provided- which part don't you believe? I deal with this issue daily in my full-time job also, so I'm happy to educate you, tell me what part you're not understanding.

From your two sentence response telling me that I'm full of bullshit, I'm not quite sure which part do you think the bullshit is. I'll clarify happily, I'm not arguing with anyone, it's fact and law that we're dealing with here.



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> The dog was wearing one just like this.
> 
> For $30.00, you can own one of these and deceive the public too!
> 
> https://www.thepuglifestore.com/pro...kM8jqYN3vuril036cUrczovzhCz5L1rMaAjbgEALw_wcB


This is EXACTLY why Uber has made the rule that drivers must accept all dogs or risk deactivation -there is no visible, obvious and 100% sure fire way to know if a dog is a SA (ADA approved) or an ESA (not ADA approved). If a pax lies, drivers have no way to fight it. And given the bullshit that spouts out of paxs' mouths on a daily basis, it's pretty obvious what most will do when asked or confronted about their animals.


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Julescase said:


> You're incorrect; emotional support animals are NOT covered by the ADA. Only registered SERVICE animals are covered under the ADA. Below is the link and one of the very first questions and answers clearly explains this fact.
> 
> That's why the Uber issue is such a controversy- drivers legally should not be forced to accept ESAs in their cars if they don't want to, but Uber is too worried about being sued again since drivers don't have any good way of discerning between Service Animals and ESAs.
> 
> ...


The ADA is for disabilities, which are defined as both physical and mental disabilities. If a psychiatrist prescribes a dog for a mental disability (like high anxiety), the dog can be trained and registered (as many are).

Barkin' up the wrong tree.


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## LAbDog65 (Nov 29, 2016)

I keep an old sheet and towel in my trunk for animals. Just put it on the seat and no paw prints


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Please go to the government link I provided- which part don't you believe? I deal with this issue daily in my full-time job also, so I'm happy to educate you, tell me what part you're not understanding.


I am quite familiar with the ADA.

The BS part is the part where uber will deactivate you if you don't take every animal that comes along.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Dropking said:


> The ADA is for disabilities, which are defined as both physical and mental disabilities. If a psychiatrist prescribes a dog for a mental disability (like high anxiety), the dog can be trained and registered (as many are).
> 
> Barkin' up the wrong tree.


Yes, if the dog is for anxiety and legally REGISTERED as a _Service Animal,_ absolutely it's a service animal. But people on this site seem very confused about the difference between SAs and ESAs. A SA registered for severe anxiety and an ESA for a person who had their psychologist type a letter so they could get theirs dog to be classified as an ESA (to bring on planes, etc) are 2 different things.

If you go to the link I provided, or even just look at the thumbnail picture I provided, it's clearly explained in black-and-white. It's so bizarre to me that people on this forum would rather argue in the comments then actually go to a link and read the FAQs (and facts) from the Federal Government's website on the issue.

Again, I deal with the every single day in my full time job so I'm not trying to bullshit anyone here, but there are 2 separate issues drivers are confused about.

1) the difference between SAs and ESAs

And

2) The fact that Uber* doesn't give a shit about the difference*, and has stated clearly that they will deactivate anyone who refuses any dog, because there is no way visually to tell the difference between the two if a pax lies about it.

Again, I'm not arguing about it - anyone who wants to enlighten themselves on the facts of the issue can we go to the link or research it themselves.



DrivingForYou said:


> I am quite familiar with the ADA.
> 
> The BS part is the part where uber will deactivate you if you don't take every animal that comes along.


Of course they do. There were about 10 threads about that happening in the last Month or two. You can ask Uber, they've made it very clear



DrivingForYou said:


> I am quite familiar with the ADA.
> 
> The BS part is the part where uber will deactivate you if you don't take every animal that comes along.


The issue is that Uber's drivers have no way of knowing which are SAs and which are ESAs, so the drivers are put in a potentially job-losing position. Once again, drivers come out on the losing end.

So while Uber always refers to the animals as Service Animals, we all know pax lie, and THAT is where the controversy comes in.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> pure BS. Where do you get this stuff?


Dude, I just went to a thread where a driver explicitly detailed being deactivated permanently by Uber for not taking an emotional support animal, and you commented on the thread. So you're fully aware of it happening, why would you call BS on something that you've already read and commented on happening?

Odd....


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Julescase, you have more than once referred to a "registered " service animal. Other than the regular license (registration) required of all dogs by local county or city governments, there is no requirement under the ADA for registering a service animal. The link you provided says this pretty plainly.

"*A*. No. Mandatory registration of service animals is not permissible under the ADA. However, as stated above, service animals are subject to the same licensing and vaccination rules that are applied to all dogs."


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Julescase, you have more than once referred to a "registered " service animal. Other than the regular license (registration) required of all dogs by local county or city governments, there is no requirement under the ADA for registering a service animal. The link you provided says this pretty plainly.
> 
> "*A*. No. Mandatory registration of service animals is not permissible under the ADA. However, as stated above, service animals are subject to the same licensing and vaccination rules that are applied to all dogs."


I I apologize if I'm using verbiage that is confusing or ambiguous; when I say "licensed" I mean they are acknowledged by the government and covered under the Americans with disabilities act as service animals.

A person cannot simply *state* that their animal is a service animal, there are various steps to go through, maybe the word is "registered", I'm hiking with my dogs right now so I can't look it up but my intention was to imply official versus unofficial.

Hopefully this makes sense, but if you go to the fed gov link it's explained in detail. I can only lead horses (drivers) to water (the link), I can't make them read.

It's so amazing how I keep getting people debating the issue, or telling me I'm full of shit, or telling me I'm wrong, when the link is literally provided and contains all of the details. I'm not the person that decided on the laws, I'm just trying to get the information to the uninformed and uneducated on this site.

* But it doesn't matter in the long run either way, because Uber does not differentiate and many people have been deactivated for refusing emotional support animals, which are not covered under the ADA.* * I'm just trying to get people to understand that there's a difference according to the law, but according to Uber, drivers have to accept all dogs or risk deactivation, period. *



Older Chauffeur said:


> Julescase, you have more than once referred to a "registered " service animal. Other than the regular license (registration) required of all dogs by local county or city governments, there is no requirement under the ADA for registering a service animal. The link you provided says this pretty plainly.
> 
> "*A*. No. Mandatory registration of service animals is not permissible under the ADA. However, as stated above, service animals are subject to the same licensing and vaccination rules that are applied to all dogs."


 Also, I don't mean registered or licensed with the county as a service animal. I am talking about the steps one must go through to have their animal be deemed a service animal. A person cannot just decide on their own that their animal is a service animal. There are steps and processes involved for an animal to become a service animal.

You're talking about a completely different subject than I am, I'm not talking about dog licenses or registering with the county of Los Angeles to tell them that your dog is a service animal. I'm talking about your animal actually becoming a service animal; there is a process to it, a German Shepherd isn't simply a seeing eye dog because their owner says it is. That specific type of service animal goes through a very rigorous training process in order to become a seeing-eye dog, that's what I'm referring to.

And only if they pass the test to become a seeing eye dog, do they become a seeing-eye dog. And only then is that German Shepherd a licensed/ registered/ official ( or whatever word I should use) seeing eye service dog And a seeing eye dog is a service animal. That's what I'm trying to relay and obviously not doing a good job at.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Dude, I just went to a thread where a driver explicitly detailed being deactivated permanently by Uber for not taking an emotional support animal, and you commented on the thread. So you're fully aware of it happening, why would you call BS on something that you've already read and commented on happening?
> 
> Odd....


okay let me put it another way - you are making statements that are confusing, ambiguous, and from appearances saying things you may not mean implicitly.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> okay let me put it another way - you are making statements that are confusing, ambiguous, and from appearances saying things you may not mean implicitly.


My apologies- I thought I was being more than 100% clear, I've stated the same exact thing over and over and over and over again. There's really no other way to say it, in no other terms can it be explained.

Between repeating the same exact thing over and over again and providing specific pages and links to the federal government's Americans with disabilities act website, I'm not sure how else to get the information across .

But I promise this will be my last post on the subject, if people can't understand the law vs. Uber's stance at this point, I truly give up - I promise. I don't even know why am trying to explain it to people if they don't really give a shit. Why do I care whether or not their deactivated? That's just one less person out there competing with me.

But if I see one more outraged comment that says that someone was deactivated for not taking a dog, my point will be proven once again. For the 30th time....

It's like Grounding Day on this forum - and then when someone explains the rules, the laws, and Uber's position on the matter, people act as if they had no idea.

"Huh? Whaaahhhh?!?! How dare they deactivate me for not accepting a dog! They're going to pay!! Grrrr!" -said every single driver who is permanently deactivated for not taking a dog in their car, despite being told over and over again that that is exactly what would happen.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Just take the dog, then write it up and see what you get!

I got dinged today about the smell. The dog had wet paws dammit!

Smell is gone now, I think.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> okay let me put it another way - you are making statements that are confusing, ambiguous, and from appearances saying things you may not mean implicitly.


 Also, it concerns me a little bit since this is related to what I've been doing professionally for the last two decades. So I guess my boss is the one who's the loser in this whole scenario, since he thought I knew what I was doing and I thought I knew what I was doing.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

FWIW I take animals - I carry a dog blanket I the trunk for that purpose.

I still ask the two legal questions, and if I feel I am being lied to I file a complaint with lyft/uber. If their animal scratches my car or leather, then a damage or cleaning claim.

I avoid pool rides so hopefully ill never get an animal and children together in a pool - can you imagine a lying pax with a pitbull and a young child in a child seat in a pool in the back?

I've been bit by a pit bull, those animals are insane.


----------



## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

So now youre a doctor? Service animals cover all aspects. My wife is a nurse at a behavior health hospital and she informed me that therapy dogs ARE in fact service dogs. And the "in training" you question (with your "professional" opinion) does not disqualify an animal from being a service dog. Next time you have a medical question answered......be sure and ask your local Uber driver. Ive never heard so much whining about a little dog hair on the seat. Man up and grab a shop vac dude.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

leroy jenkins said:


> no legal protection for a "therapy animal." ADA covers a "service animal" only. We've beaten this topic to death in the Chicago forum. Search if interested.
> 
> But ya, OP was in a lose-lose situation. Even though OP is 100% legally right to refuse that dog, pax would complain and OP might get temp. deactivated by a CSR in India. No matter what the law says.
> 
> Congrats for coming out $20 ahead.


You do know that Chicago (Illinois) laws are different than California, or Ohio, or Florida, or ... well, you get the pix.
For one thing, in California, we only allow one vote per LIVING person.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

RangerBella said:


> So now youre a doctor? Service animals cover all aspects. *My wife is a nurse at a behavior health hospital and she informed me that therapy dogs ARE in fact service dogs. * And the "in training" you question (with your "professional" opinion) does not disqualify an animal from being a service dog. Next time you have a medical question answered......be sure and ask your local Uber driver. Ive never heard so much whining about a little dog hair on the seat. *Man up and grab a shop vac dude.*


This is very typical for a beta male mangina to say.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Julescase said:


> I I apologize if I'm using verbiage that is confusing or ambiguous; when I say "licensed" I mean they are acknowledged by the government and covered under the Americans with disabilities act as service animals.
> 
> A person cannot simply *state* that their animal is a service animal, there are various steps to go through, maybe the word is "registered", I'm hiking with my dogs right now so I can't look it up but my intention was to imply official versus unofficial.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should read for yourself the information in the link you referenced, specifically the FAQ section at the beginning. It is written in simple terms. You will find that people can train their dogs themselves to perform the tasks needed to help with their disabilities. And then if asked, can indeed state that their dogs are service animals.

It's pretty obvious to most people that a seeing eye dog is highly trained by professionals, but not, for instance, a dog trained to detect a medical condition. Hence the two questions that can be asked of someone claiming to have a service animal.

BTW, in my post I quoted your use of the word "registered," not "licensed," the term which you used in response. There was nothing "ambiguous" in your initial statement.

ADA specifically states that requiring registration of a service animal as such by any government agency is illegal. All that can be required are the same things used to license any dog, such as inoculations. (Like licensing a dog in Los Angeles.)


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## uber fool (Feb 3, 2016)

What a b/itch


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Julescase said:


> This is EXACTLY why Uber has made the rule that drivers must accept all dogs or risk deactivation


Uber has no such rule. On their service animal policy page, Uber says only that drivers must accept service animals, as defined by the ADA, not that they must accept all dogs. Uber does indeed deactivate drivers against whom a complaint is made of service animal refusal when the animal was in fact just an emotional dog and not a service animal; this happens when the driver is unable to prove his/her innocence by providing video evidence of the encounter and Uber therefore sides with the pax. Remember, with Uber it's guilty until proven innocent. However, this does not mean that Uber's policy is that drivers must take all dogs.


Julescase said:


> 2) The fact that Uber* doesn't give a shit about the difference*, and has stated clearly that they will deactivate anyone who refuses any dog


See above


Julescase said:


> It's so amazing how I keep getting people debating the issue, or telling me I'm full of shit, or telling me I'm wrong, when the link is literally provided and contains all of the details.


Yes, you have posted links, but the content of those links doesn't match what you are claiming. i.e.:


> A person cannot simply *state* that their animal is a service animal, there are various steps to go through, maybe the word is "registered"


This is wrong. There is no register of service animals, and it is not possible to register a service animal. It is sufficient for a person to claim that the animal is a service animal, and to be able to state one or more tasks that they claim the dog does for them. It is enough only for the person to claim this. If they claim it, then it is a service animal.


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## Haskel45 (Feb 9, 2017)

So in reality EVERY dog is a service animal, there are no real delineations or regulations by any administrative or legislative body, the owners SAYS it then it is so?

The "service" could literally be anything i e. "The dog makes me feel good about life"

Technically that is a service. So in reality EVERY dog with an owner IS service animal. The only requirement is that the owner verbalize the claim if asked.

Completely nonsensical but it makes sense (if that makes sense lol). We do live in a country where if a person claims they are a woman, even though born a man, the rest of us have to play along with their mania or else.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Haskel45 said:


> So in reality EVERY dog is a service animal, there are no real delineations or regulations by any administrative or legislative body, the owners SAYS it then it is so?


The way the law is constructed, yes. I had a pax on Thanksgiving night who presented himself curbside with a large dog.

I asked the owner if it was a service animal and he said yes. I asked what tasks it had been trained to do, and he seemed to know the drill. He said that the dog guided him and picked things up for him. The man had not been guided to the car by the dog,and he looked me straight in the eye when talking to me; he showed no signs of visual impairment.

However,because he had quoted two tasks that a dog could feasibly be trained for, I had to take him and his dog. I doubt the dog was a service dog but that didn't matter - I had asked the only two questions I am allowed to ask and the man answered them with feasible ansewers. Whether or not he was lying is not relevant; you're not allowed to ask for proof.

So, bottom line, it's a service animal if the owner a) says it is and b) gives a feasible answer to the training question.


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## TheTruth9 (Nov 29, 2017)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


WRONG!!!! Comfort dogs ARE NOT service animals. Ask the person 2 questions (ada): 1. is that a SERVICE ANIMAL? yes 2. what TASK does the animal perform? None...its a comfort or emotional support animal.

decline the ride...collect cancel fee. inform app that rider admitted dog was NOT a service animal. Save the conversation until needed as proof.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> The way the law is constructed, yes. I had a pax on Thanksgiving night who presented himself curbside with a large dog.
> 
> I asked the owner if it was a service animal and he said yes. I asked what tasks it had been trained to do, and he seemed to know the drill. He said that the dog guided him and picked things up for him. The man had not been guided to the car by the dog,and he looked me straight in the eye when talking to me; he showed no signs of visual impairment.
> 
> ...


Being blind is not the only thing A service animal can be trained to help with. It can be something that has no outward appearances.



Haskel45 said:


> So in reality EVERY dog is a service animal, there are no real delineations or regulations by any administrative or legislative body, the owners SAYS it then it is so?
> 
> The "service" could literally be anything i e. "The dog makes me feel good about life"
> 
> ...


The animals needs to be trained. Comfort or emotional support is not trained, all dogs are emotional support thats what makes them great pets.

If the dog is not trained for a specific task, it is not a service animal.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Awesomeness101 said:


> Again that's completely fabricated. Take a lap.


Which issue do you feel is "completely fabricated "? I'm so baffled by people o


The Gift of Fish said:


> Uber has no such rule. On their service animal policy page, Uber says only that drivers must accept service animals, as defined by the ADA, not that they must accept all dogs. Uber does indeed deactivate drivers against whom a complaint is made of service animal refusal when the animal was in fact just an emotional dog and not a service animal; this happens when the driver is unable to prove his/her innocence by providing video evidence of the encounter and Uber therefore sides with the pax. Remember, with Uber it's guilty until proven innocent. However, this does not mean that Uber's policy is that drivers must take all dogs.
> See above
> Yes, you have posted links, but the content of those links doesn't match what you are claiming. i.e.:
> This is wrong. There is no register of service animals, and it is not possible to register a service animal. It is sufficient for a person to claim that the animal is a service animal, and to be able to state one or more tasks that they claim the dog does for them. It is enough only for the person to claim this. If they claim it, then it is a service animal.


 There are so many incorrect statements in your comment that I can't even address them all. I advise that you read the 20 or so threads that were started by drivers who were deactivated by Uber for not taking someone's dog, and please note those dogs were not service animals, they were emotional support animals. Also, maybe check out the ADA link and/or any other factual information regarding the issue . If you want to remain in the dark, so be it.

I've posted the pages from Uber, the ADA website, and clarified the difference between ESAs and Service Animals 10 times on this site. Yet it seems every week another driver posts a tgread "I was deactivated by Uber for not taking a dog! D'oh! I'm gonna sue!!"

I'm not going to keep trying to convince/educate people - the more drivers deactivated, the better. It's called culling the herd.


----------



## TheTruth9 (Nov 29, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Which issue do you feel is "completely fabricated "? I'm so baffled by people o
> 
> There are so many incorrect statements in your comment that I can't even address them all. I advise that you read the 20 or so threads that were started by drivers who were deactivated by Uber for not taking someone's dog, and please note those dogs were not service animals, they were emotional support animals. Also, maybe check out the ADA link and/or any other factual information regarding the issue . If you want to remain in the dark, so be it.
> 
> ...


Over 5k rides. I've never had a dog in my car that was not in a travel container. I'm waiting to take a real service animal wth no problem. But I refuse to comply with entitled pax who thinks I must take their dog. I haven't gotten deactivated as of yet. Reason; record all conversation with fraudulent pax. Take pictures of unruly dog, and save. Also tell pax you will inform app of their fraudulent behavior. Works like a charm.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Being blind is not the only thing A service animal can be trained to help with.


That is correct. As I said, as long as the owner claims a _feasible_ task that their dog performs, then you have to take it. I mentioned one such task above, which is one that this dog owner said: picking up objects for its owner. Other tasks could be sensing when a person is about to have a seizure, alerting other people when the owner has a seizure, alerting low/high blood sugar in diabetics etc.



Julescase said:


> There are so many incorrect statements in your comment that I can't even address them all. I advise that you read the 20 or so threads that were started by drivers who were deactivated by Uber for not taking someone's dog, and please note those dogs were not service animals, they were emotional support animals.


I've no need to read any threads - I've been suspended by both Uber and Lyft after pax reported alleged failure to transport service animals. It's a simple case of replying to the suspension email with the video proof of the pax either admitting that it's an emotional dog or failing to answer satisfactorily the trained tasks question and Uber/Lyft reactivate straight away.


> Also, maybe check out the ADA link and/or any other factual information regarding the issue . If you want to remain in the dark, so be it.


No need to check out the ADA link - the ADA states that a service animal is an animal that has been trained to perform a specific task or tasks to help disabled owners. I take this to mean that a service animal is an animal that has been trained to perform a specific task or tasks to help disabled owners. If you see a different interpretation in this, then that's fine.


> I've posted the pages from Uber, the ADA website, and clarified the difference between ESAs and Service Animals 10 times on this site. Yet it seems every week another driver posts a tgread "I was deactivated by Uber for not taking a dog! D'oh! I'm gonna sue!!"


And as I stated before, Uber/Lyft's knee-jerk, automatic response to any kind of non-transportation of dog complaint is to suspend the driver immediately. It is then up to the driver to prove that he is innocent, i.e. that the dog in question was not a service animal but rather an emotional dog. If the driver can do that, and video evidence is the only way I know of, then he/she will be reinstated. I know this is true because I get suspended over it when a dog owner complains, and reinstated every time I submit video proof that I am innocent and that it was not a service animal as defined by the ADA.

Many drivers do indeed get deactivated over emotional dogs because they do not video record each encounter with each dog owner. I have not read a thread yet where a driver has submitted video proof to Uber/Lyft that the dog was an emotional dog and not been reactivated.



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> This is very typical for a beta male mangina to say.


Lol


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> You are legally allowed to ask the following questions
> 
> 1) is the animal required for an disability.
> 2) what tasks is the animal trained to do.
> ...


This^



Julescase said:


> I I apologize if I'm using verbiage that is confusing or ambiguous; when I say "licensed" I mean they are acknowledged by the government and covered under the Americans with disabilities act as service animals.
> 
> A person cannot simply *state* that their animal is a service animal, there are various steps to go through, maybe the word is "registered", I'm hiking with my dogs right now so I can't look it up but my intention was to imply official versus unofficial.
> 
> ...


There is no certification or registration. There is no legally required test.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Awesomeness101 said:


> This is patently false. Comfort animals do not get protections by law.
> 
> This is false. You do not have to accept support animals in your car. Only service animal


If you don't want to be deactivated by Uber, yes you need to take all dogs. Legally you're only required to accept Service Dogs. The issue is, Uber deactivates drivers who refuse a dog, regardless of its category.

LEGALLY no you don't need to take all dogs; only "Service Dogs." Emotional Support Dogs are not covered by the ADA hence not required to be allowed in your car. But Uber will deactivate you if pax complains. It's happened to many folks on this forum.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Julescase said:


> If you don't want to be deactivated by Uber, yes you need to take all dogs. Legally you're only required to accept Service Dogs. The issue is, Uber deactivates drivers who refuse a dog, regardless of its category.
> 
> LEGALLY no you don't need to take all dogs; only "Service Dogs." Emotional Support Dogs are not covered by the ADA hence not required to be allowed in your car. But Uber will deactivate you if pax complains. It's happened to many folks on this forum.


Uber will deactivate you for any chicken-shit reason they want to. You can be a three year driver with 10k trips, and a rating of 4.95 and BOOM all of a sudden, yer out.
It doesn't have to be a dog. It can be because a pax lied on you and told them that you are carrying a shotgun, and snorting coke off the dashboard.
When you sign up you should be aware that your time is limited. NObody retires from this job.
NEVER count on this income.
NEVER get into a position that you NEED this income.
As soon as you do, they will **** you


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> This^
> 
> There is no certification or registration. There is no legally required test.


Of course there is; a person cannot simply decide their German Shepherd is a seeing eye dog. It needs to actually be trained to be a seeing eye dog. Same with dogs that are trained to predict seizures, a spike or severe drop in blood sugar, etc etc etc.

A person can't just decide their dog is a service dog. It doesn't work that way.



UberBastid said:


> Uber will deactivate you for any chicken-shit reason they want to. You can be a three year driver with 10k trips, and a rating of 4.95 and BOOM all of a sudden, yer out.
> It doesn't have to be a dog. It can be because a pax lied on you and told them that you are carrying a shotgun, and snorting coke off the dashboard.
> When you sign up you should be aware that your time is limited. NObody retires from this job.
> NEVER count on this income.
> ...


Dayum! You are an angry one! Grrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Of course there is; a person cannot simply decide their German Shepherd is a seeing eye dog. It needs to actually be trained to be a seeing eye dog. Same with dogs that are trained to predict seizures, a spike or severe drop in blood sugar, etc etc etc.
> 
> A person can't just decide their dog is a service dog. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> Dayum! You are an angry one! Grrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!


I have a guide dog. He never took any tests.
Https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

But obviously you know more than I do about Service Dogs...


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Dayum! You are an angry one! Grrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!


That sounded angry? Sounded like a theory to me.
Can you dispute it? I'd be interested to hear YOUR theory.

Because I see people getting the ax for little or no reason all the time.
Why do YOU think it happens.


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

The ridiculous notion of dogs, chickens and capybaras employed as psychological service animals impels me to burn myrrh on the alter of Big Pharma.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

Blatherskite said:


> The ridiculous notion of dogs, chickens and capybaras employed as psychological service animals impels me to burn myrrh on the alter of Big Pharma.


Only dogs and in some situations Miniature horses can be service animals.
Https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

You're forgetting pachyderms.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Service dogs are trained and certified. There is only one more step that should be implemented. That is, have them legally registered wih the state. Issue a tag for their collar similar to a rabies tag. Therefore, if no tag, it is not considered a service animal. Seeing eye dogs should also be included.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

mikes424 said:


> Service dogs are trained


Yes.


> and certified


No.

I've never seen a set of rules cause so much confusion and misunderstanding among people than these ADA regulations. I don't think it's the regulations themselves; they seem very straightforward and easy to understand. Maybe it's just that people are just self-referencing and not bothering to read the information available. Whatever it is, it's very bizarre.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

mikes424 said:


> Service dogs are trained and certifide.


I'll give it another try: read #17 on the FAQ page in this link:

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html#cert


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## rex jones (Jun 6, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> The dog was wearing one just like this.
> 
> For $30.00, you can own one of these and deceive the public too!
> 
> https://www.thepuglifestore.com/pro...kM8jqYN3vuril036cUrczovzhCz5L1rMaAjbgEALw_wcB


hahaha hilarious , what if everybody had things that announced themselves like this?


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## Rex8976 (Nov 11, 2014)

Julescase



Julescase said:


> Yes, if the dog is for anxiety and legally REGISTERED as a _Service Animal,_ absolutely it's a service animal.


Where exactly would this animal be registered?

On one of the many fine web sites that will provide you and Fido with a snappy damn near official looking ID tag?

Service Animals are not licensed or registered. They are also easy to spot.

"Emotional Support Animals" and "Comfort Animal" are the figment of the ever growing segment of entitled nitwits who have to have it their way.

If people were a little more upfront about traveling with their pets they would have fewer problems.

Last week a young lady called me and said she had a dog and would it be OK.

I asked two questions: How large is the dog and how cute is he?

Nice pooch, no problems with the passenger.

The only true solution to this is an actual federal permit for real, trained service animals.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> I have a guide dog. He never took any tests.
> Https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
> 
> But obviously you know more than I do about Service Dogs...


He was born a guide dog? That's amazing - and he had absolutely no training?! He's probably the first and last dog that came out of the womb with the abilities necessary to be a guide dog. He must be a miracle of science.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

Julescase said:


> He was born a guide dog? That's amazing - and he had absolutely no training?! He's probably the first and last dog that came out of the womb with the abilities necessary to be a guide dog. He must be a miracle of science.


Nope I owner trained him for guide work and other tasks with the help of a trainer. Perhaps you should learn a bit about Service Dogs before you spout nonsense.



Rex8976 said:


> Julescase
> 
> Where exactly would this animal be registered?
> 
> ...


A federal permit will never happen as it's not legal to require one. If it became a requirement then I would have to take extra steps to be allowed in public. That's a violation of my rights.

Disabled people have the right to train their own Service Dogs as not all people qualify for dogs from programs and programs don't cross train dogs for the things I need.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Rex8976 said:


> Julescase
> 
> Where exactly would this animal be registered?
> 
> ...


 I was actually going by the ADA link (Q4 in the thumbnail attached) - despite it being a grey area, there ARE Service Animals for those with severe anxiety, not to be confused with ESAs or Comfort Animals which are essentially totally abused categories and anyone can buy their dog a red vest online and decide their animal is an ESA.

ESAs are not Service Animals but Service Animals CAN BE used for folks with severe cases of anxiety- but (and despite people on this forum who remain adamant to the contrary) Service Animals must be TRAINED and ESAs are not trained for anything in particular.

And if you refer to the ADA link posted a few comments up, if a Service Animal is NOT thoroughly trained, it is not allowed everywhere with its human (ie: in public or restaurants or where trained SAs are allowed)


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Nope I owner trained him for guide work and other tasks with the help of a trainer. Perhaps you should learn a bit about Service Dogs before you spout nonsense.
> 
> A federal permit will never happen as it's not legal to require one. If it became a requirement then I would have to take extra steps to be allowed in public. That's a violation of my rights.
> 
> Disabled people have the right to train their own Service Dogs as not all people qualify for dogs from programs and programs don't cross train dogs for the things I need.


Right- you TRAINED your dog. He's trained. He wasn't born with GD abilities- he's TRAINED.

You don't need to explain the law, especially the ADA, to me. Trust.

Instead of trying to tell me what I know (I posted the ADA link on Service Animals yesterday but thank you for providing it again today) and acting as if no one else can have your superior knowledge on SAs vs ESAs vs whatever else you think you're an expert on, why not open your eyeballs and realize I'm trying to get drivers to understand the DIFFERENCE between SAs and ESAs while also trying to get across the fact that Uber doesn't give a shit WHAT an animal is; drivers who don't accept dogs in their cars will be deactivated, period. Every other day there's a thread started by a driver about being deactivated because they said no to a dog, since the driver "could tell the person was fine and didn't need a SA" which is obviously ridiculously ignorant and wrong but for the love of all things holy, people here say it all the time.

The controversy exists because Uber has taken the lazy/easy way out and doesn't want to risk being sued again for its drivers breaking federal law, so its stance is "accept Service dogs or be deactivated." but actually MEANS "accept ALL dogs or be deactivated." And then drivers get mad because ESAs aren't covered under the law so why should they accept them? It's like a never ending circle of the most ridiculous argument I've ever seen yet it occurs weekly.

Why do I give a shit? I guess I get frustrated with the level of ignorance spouted by some of the people on here. But it's probably better to just let them be deactivated and think of it as culling the herd or survival of the fittest.

I know about 20 people with ESAs who get to have their dogs fly for free, and they think they own the world wherever they go and none of them are legitimate (they have fake letters from fake shrinks and their dogs wear fake vests that they think means they're allowed to do anything they want) and it bugs the shit out of me. I also know about 8 people with legitimate SAs who are given a hard time every.single.day. by some eating establishment or business, and that burns me a thousand times more.

My dog is neither a SA or an ESA and I pay $300 every time he flies with me (and I have to keep him under the seat in front of me in his carrier) while my friends and their fake ESAs don't pay a cent to fly with their animals and get to keep them on their laps....and it's all bullshit. They all encourage me to get a fake letter from a fake shrink and buy fake vests to get fake certification for a fake title of ESA for my dog but I refuse because I am an honest person and don't want to take advantage of a service that is a good idea if it was actually monitored. So instead I've spent $3500 in plane tickets for my dog and don't feel like a shitty person.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

If the dog gets in and immediately gets on the seat then you can be 100% sure it is NOT a service dog. 

Service dogs are trained NOT to sit on the seat.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Julescase said:


> Emotional Support Dogs ("EMS" or "comfort dogs") aren't Service Dogs; EMS dogs are a separate and less regulated genre. Uber has no [easy] way of differentiating (or won't go to the lengths necessary to differentiate), which is why drivers must accept ALL dogs, regardless of their category (Service Dog vs. Emotional Support Dog)
> 
> There ARE legitimate service dogs that provide help and comfort to war veterans and others with PTSD, but again, they are not Emotional Support Dogs. They are licensed Service Dogs.
> 
> ...


There is no such thing as a "licensed service dog." No license is required.



uberdriverfornow said:


> If the dog gets in and immediately gets on the seat then you can be 100% sure it is NOT a service dog.
> 
> Service dogs are trained NOT to sit on the seat.


Some small service dogs are carried or in a carry bag (like a baby) because it's better for them to be close to the person's face (for instance, to better smell their breath in the case of a diabetic).

Also, although a guide dog is generally professionally trained, it is perfectly fine to train your own service dog. So a person may or may not have trained them to sit on the floor.  It doesn't actually PROVE anything if they don't, especially if it's a small dog. A person who needs the dog close to them, but who likes to fall asleep on their couch may routinely have the dog lie up there with them.

Service dogs come in so many shapes and sizes these days, and it's impossible to make broad generalizations about them.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> I have a guide dog. He never took any tests.
> Https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
> 
> But obviously you know more than I do about Service Dogs...





> A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal's presence.


It looks like we can legally end trips with pax for faking service dogs if they are being unruly which means they arent real service dogs but I would only recommend doing this if you have a dash cam recording the dog being unruly so you cam show it to Uber.

Someone really needs to file suit and get a judge to force Congress to come up with a way to make people get dogs certified and registered so businesses don't get blackmailed into taking any dog an owner simply says is a service dog but isn't.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

Julescase said:


> why not open your eyeballs and realize I'm trying to get drivers to understand the DIFFERENCE between SAs and ESAs


Well mainly because I have a guide dog. You would think that would indicate things to you about my eyes.



uberdriverfornow said:


> It looks like we can legally end trips with pax for faking service dogs if they are being unruly which means they arent real service dogs but I would only recommend doing this if you have a dash cam recording the dog being unruly so you cam show it to Uber.
> 
> Someone really needs to file suit and get a judge to force Congress to come up with a way to make people get dogs certified and registered so businesses don't get blackmailed into taking any dog an owner simply says is a service dog but isn't.


That lawsuit wouldn't get anywhere. We are not second class citizens. We do not need government permission to use our medical equipment.
Ask the two questions the ADA allows and determine if it's a Service Dog or not off of that.
"When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person's disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."
Https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


----------



## Rex8976 (Nov 11, 2014)

ServiceDogHandler Julescase

I believe we are all on the same page here.

A trained animal, regardless of purpose, is always welcome.

A yapping ball of fur accompanied by a line of BS regarding it's "purpose" is not only disturbing but insulting.

If they chose to be up front instead of deceitful things would be much better.

I once had a large dog, supposedly "trained", jump into the front seat (with no provocation) and growl as it bared it's teeth.

An untrained animal is picking up countless smells in a vehicle and there is no telling what will set Fido off.



ServiceDogHandler said:


> A federal permit will never happen as it's not legal to require one. If it became a requirement then I would have to take extra steps to be allowed in public. That's a violation of my rights.


I would imagine the trainers and providers of SA's could handle the certification. Give a little, get a little.

I want to transport all SA's and most animals. I don't want BS babies in my vehicle.

I also wish I could give all those great SA's a big belly rub!


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> If the dog gets in and immediately gets on the seat then you can be 100% sure it is NOT a service dog.
> 
> Service dogs are trained NOT to sit on the seat.


My Service Dog is large and will usually get up on the seat for a moment to position himself better. If he may get the seat dirty I instruct him to lay at my feet right away and usually have him put his front paws in my lap.
Just because a dog is on the seat doesn't mean they aren't a Service Dog.



Rex8976 said:


> ServiceDogHandler Julescase
> 
> I believe we are all on the same page here.
> 
> ...


Nope. Owners can train their own Service Dog. I have no intentions of giving up my rights.


----------



## Awesomeness101 (Jul 19, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Which issue do you feel is "completely fabricated "? I'm so baffled by people o
> 
> There are so many incorrect statements in your comment that I can't even address them all. I advise that you read the 20 or so threads that were started by drivers who were deactivated by Uber for not taking someone's dog, and please note those dogs were not service animals, they were emotional support animals. Also, maybe check out the ADA link and/or any other factual information regarding the issue . If you want to remain in the dark, so be it.
> 
> ...


You're baffled that people are calling you out on your bullshit?


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

I've changed my mantra, just 1 star- and cleaning fee these people to death. 
No more dog and pony show with the tire inflator, I'm getting paid. 

The neat thing is that the account rating will get so terrible that it will be a no-brainer to ignore pings with like a 3.2 ratings lol. 
Also, 1-starring will prevent being paired again. 
I appreciate everyone's collaboration on this matter, think we've cracked the code to come out clean, and with a little money in our pocket! 

I have fake poops, faux fur in an assortment of colors, and I always have water to make a quick photo ready pee mark. 

Time to get paid ladies and gentlemen. Time to get paid.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> I've changed my mantra, just 1 star- and cleaning fee these people to death.
> No more dog and pony show with the tire inflator, I'm getting paid.
> 
> The neat thing is that the account rating will get so terrible that it will be a no-brainer to ignore pings with like a 3.2 ratings lol.
> ...


I liked what you wrote until I read, *"I have fake poops, faux fur in an assortment of colors, and I always have water to make a quick photo ready pee mark."*

Drivers like you are the ones that add to bad media.

When I go online, I work and search for fares, which includes cleaning my car, learn current events to have things to discuss with paxes, and keep maintenance completed on my uber. I let paxes drink, eat. and be merry, and still learning to deal with pets and such. If they make a mess, then I will report it with a clean conscience. Normally pays too.

You are a bad driver. *BAD DRIVER!*


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> You are a bad driver. *BAD DRIVER!*


But..treats? Imma good boi


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> But..treats? Imma good boi


Yeah, I gave out all the candy canes, so you are sh1t out of luck today. Lol

You'll just have to snack on your fleas.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> I've changed my mantra, just 1 star- and cleaning fee these people to death.
> No more dog and pony show with the tire inflator, I'm getting paid.
> 
> The neat thing is that the account rating will get so terrible that it will be a no-brainer to ignore pings with like a 3.2 ratings lol.
> ...


Nice now you're admitting to felonies.


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Nice now you're admitting to felonies.


What felonies?

I think it's funny regarding equal treatment.

Do you want to transport me with my live animal? No.
Do you want to transport me with my live service animal? No.

No = No

Sound like equality to me.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> What felonies?
> 
> I think it's funny regarding equal treatment.
> 
> ...


You admit you're committing fraud. Faking damage to get money is fraud.


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> You admit you're committing fraud. Faking damage to get money is fraud.


But is that a felony? Feels more like a misdemeanor that will never be pursued.

Why don't you be real with yourself? You are cheap and are willing to put the lives of the driver and your service animal at risk.


----------



## darkshy77 (Sep 28, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> Emotional support dogs must be allowed in housing and on airplanes but businesses do not need to accept them


And when you are deactivated let me know how that work


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

darkshy77 said:


> And when you are deactivated let me know how that work


Exactly, take every animal. 1-star and cleaning fee them. You will preserve your account and come out with some extra cash.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> But is that a felony? Feels more like a misdemeanor that will never be pursued.
> 
> Why don't you be real with yourself? You are cheap and are willing to put the lives of the driver and your service animal at risk.


Nope. My Service Dog has his own seat belt that I take with us for in the car.
What state are you in? I'll look up the fraud laws for you.


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Nope. My Service Dog has his own seat belt that I take with us for in the car.


Excellent, thank you, for you and your animal and the driver.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> Excellent, thank you, for you and your animal and the driver.


Where do you live. I want to look up the fraud laws for there.


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Where do you live. I want to look up the fraud laws for there.


I couldn't find anything in the state statutes for fraudulent stars.

I need salt bae gif sprinkling 1 stars on a greasy Yorkie.

Also, that seems stalky.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> I couldn't find anything in the state statutes for fraudulent stars.
> 
> I need salt bae gif sprinkling 1 stars on a greasy Yorkie.
> 
> Also, that seems stalky.


You stated that you carry fake poop, fur and pee to make $150 cleaning fees.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-941-18-usc-1343-elements-wire-fraud
Yeah it's a federal felony. Since you're using an app to commit fraud it's wire fraud.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Well mainly because I have a guide dog. You would think that would indicate things to you about my eyes.
> 
> That lawsuit wouldn't get anywhere. We are not second class citizens. We do not need government permission to use our medical equipment.
> Ask the two questions the ADA allows and determine if it's a Service Dog or not off of that.
> ...


Nobody said you're a second class citizen.

You don't seem to understand what civil courts are for. Not only are they for monetary reasons they are also used to ask a judge to rule that a law is either unconstitutional or that a law needs to be clarified or rectified so that it is no longer ambiguous.



ServiceDogHandler said:


> My Service Dog is large and will usually get up on the seat for a moment to position himself better. If he may get the seat dirty I instruct him to lay at my feet right away and usually have him put his front paws in my lap.
> Just because a dog is on the seat doesn't mean they aren't a Service Dog.
> 
> Nope. Owners can train their own Service Dog. I have no intentions of giving up my rights.


Unfortunately any tom, dick, and harry can say their dog is a trained service dog without actually doing any training nor their dog ever having been trained in any capacity and they can just say it's a service dog and people have to take their word for it. That's not the way the law was designed.

It's not fair to the people that really need service dogs to have people that simply have a pet to ruin it for those that really do need service dogs to be trained to assist them.

That's why a lawsuit is needed so a judge can get it fixed.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Nobody said you're a second class citizen.
> 
> You don't seem to understand what civil courts are for. Not only are they for monetary reasons they are also used to ask a judge to rule that a law is either unconstitutional or that a law needs to be clarified or rectified so that it is no longer ambiguous.
> 
> ...


The ADA has been law for 27 years. If it was going to get challenged in court it would have happened a long time ago.
You can read all the existing case law on it including the Uber settlement at Ada.gov, you might learn something while you're there.

https://www.ada.gov/


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Maybe the ACLU should take this case to the Supreme Court for a revision?


----------



## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Everyone that lies to me that their dog is a service animal will get hit with a $150 cleaning fee. How will I do that? Easy, a melted Hershey bar looks a lot like dog poop. I put that on plastic wrap on top of the seat and take a picture, then eat the candy and throw away the wrap. 
Perhaps then they'll stop lying about their dog.


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm actually adding something else into the mix now. 1 star, cleaning fee, and "the live animal bit me".


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Nobody said you're a second class citizen.
> 
> You don't seem to understand what civil courts are for. Not only are they for monetary reasons they are also used to ask a judge to rule that a law is either unconstitutional or that a law needs to be clarified or rectified so that it is no longer ambiguous.
> 
> ...


Thats actually exactly how the law was designed and intentionally so to reduce "undue burden" on the disabled. Do I agree with that? Not really. But then who would pay for this registry, all the paperwork, all the enforcement?

Its just easier to have it the way it is. If theyre crafty enough to know the right answers to the 2 questions, they get a ride. If the animal makes a mess, they get charged.

Hard stop.



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Maybe the ACLU should take this case to the Supreme Court for a revision?


The ACLU would be on the side of the disabled in any such case. The disabled are a protected class.

Anything that can be done has been done to fight the ADA. You think having to transport a dog in your car is the worst of the ADA?

Theres a great law review journal out there that was published 2 years after the ADA was passed (1992).

Google "Disabling America: Costing Out The Americans with Disability Act" if you can stomach a 23 page legal document.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> I'm actually adding something else into the mix now. 1 star, cleaning fee, and "the live animal bit me".


*So, ........, are you gonna gouge your arm with a broken bottle and say the dog mauled you?*


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> So, ........, are you gonna gouge your arm with a broken bottle and say the dog mauled you?


No, I'm just going to tell them that the dog bit my hand, no need to upload pics, I mean if you really wanted to you could whip out a bandage with some fake dried blood.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> No, I'm just going to tell them that the dog bit my hand, no need to upload pics, I mean if you really wanted to you could whip out a bandage with some fake dried blood.


What if you are required to get medical attention and/or a police report?


----------



## Big Wig !!! (Sep 16, 2016)

Leather seats are a must.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Big Wig !!! said:


> Leather seats are a must.


I took what ever new car I could get my hands on. Between Lyft and Uber, I've drove close to 4000 trips just under one year.

This cleaner works very well on my seats. Drys in a hour or so.


----------



## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

What an old topic. I have taken dogs of all sizes, 2 chickens in a pen and a baby goat. Sure, some hair gets on my seats now and then. Big deal. A few quarters and problem solved in 5 minutes. 

I am obsessive about the cleanliness and condition of my car too. But animals are a huge part of people' lives, especially in Denver. So hassling riders about their pets is counter productive. You loose the norm trip and risk deactivation if the wrong rider says the right thing to corporate. 

Drive safe.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> The dog took the seat next to her, then leaving hair. I dinged her 1-star, and reported her. Uber sends me $20.00


I would consider it one of the minor miracles of your Uber career that you received even that. According to Uber and the gubbamint, a provider must eat all of the adverse consequences of accommodation. Add to this that their disability (the reason that they need the animal) trumps yours (a physical allergy). I would love to see a psychoanalysis of the Rocket Scientist who came up with that. I do not need one for the politicians in Congress who voted in the thing, as what Samuel Langhorne Clemens had to say about Members of Congress in the late Nineteenth Century is still true to-day.



Julescase said:


> Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


^^^^^This^^^^^

The same is true for people with the wheelchair glyph hanging from their mirror.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I would consider it one of the minor miracles of your Uber career that you received even that. According to Uber and the gubbamint, a provider must eat all of the adverse consequences of accommodation. Add to this that their disability (the reason that they need the animal) trumps yours (a physical allergy). I would love to see a psychoanalysis of the Rocket Scientist who came up with that. I do not need one for the politicians in Congress who voted in the thing, as what Samuel Langhorne Clemens had to say about Members of Congress in the late Nineteenth Century is still true to-day.


I'm glad you bought this up about physical defects. I too have a physical defect with hearing. Each rider gets a ping that I'm either deaf or hard of hearing. I went like 8 months before using this in the app accessibility function in order to warn riders to speak up when getting in my uber. I'm not deaf, but if somebody is soft spoken, then that would be a problem.


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving (Oct 2, 2015)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


$20 is a joke..hair is so hard to remove



UberBastid said:


> I have a niece; young and pretty and apparently healthy.
> She is diabetic. Like few people are diabetic. She goes into diabetic shock in seconds. She will test now and it will be 100, an hour later with nothing changing, she is in an ambulance with a blood sugar above 300.
> She now has a dog. Has had Grouper for a couple of years now. A dash hound. He can smell the chemical changes in her body, and warn her that she is about to faceplant. When he gives the signal, she goes into immediate action. He has saved her a couple of times.
> May have saved her life.


 you can buy on ebay for $5.00 free shipping..what a joke this country is


----------



## Driver2448 (Mar 8, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


Couldn't you just report them as making you feel unsafe and report your suspicions to Uber? I mean they probably won't do anything about it but if they get multiple reports perhaps they could ban the rider from the app. But that way you take the trip and don't get in trouble.

Thankfully I haven't had to deal with this yet. The only animal I have ever transported was a rabbit in a crate. The lady left me a five dollar tip and wanted me to become her personal Uber driver. I'm usually pretty good with animals but I'd probably deny any pit bulls for fear of not knowing how the rider has trained them. I have experience with both loving and vicious ones.


----------



## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

The real story is how you ants still care about your cars & drive uber.

I stopped giving AF about the backseat & it's unique history a few pissers ago.


----------



## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I wish they would just add some driver profile options:

Allow service dogs?
Allow pets in general?
Allow stops?
Allow drive-thru?

And then give those pings only to those who want them. I know legally this probably wouldn't work unfortunately but it is the way which makes the most sense.


----------



## ScandaLeX (May 15, 2017)

Julescase said:


> .....{SNIPPED}.....
> So while Uber always refers to the animals as Service Animals, *we all know pax lie*, and THAT is where the controversy comes in.


And Üboor knows it too- but will always take the pax side on this issue no matter what which is beyond sad!


----------



## uberdavid (Feb 1, 2016)

Kitty Kitty


----------



## Trunkcorpse (Oct 27, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> The ADA has been law for 27 years. If it was going to get challenged in court it would have happened a long time ago


That's a pretty lame argument. There are so many laws that just plain suck and aren't challenged for a relatively long time. Slavery comes to mind (that was 100+ years,) child labor, women's suffrage, etc.

The point is, the current ADA is not perfect, and to blindly defend it (pun cruely intended) is not helping anyone.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

Trunkcorpse said:


> That's a pretty lame argument. There are so many laws that just plain suck and aren't challenged for a relatively long time. Slavery comes to mind (that was 100+ years,) child labor, women's suffrage, etc.
> 
> The point is, the current ADA is not perfect, and to blindly defend it (pun cruely intended) is not helping anyone.


Exactly what is wrong with the ADA?



Driver2448 said:


> Couldn't you just report them as making you feel unsafe and report your suspicions to Uber? I mean they probably won't do anything about it but if they get multiple reports perhaps they could ban the rider from the app. But that way you take the trip and don't get in trouble.
> 
> Thankfully I haven't had to deal with this yet. The only animal I have ever transported was a rabbit in a crate. The lady left me a five dollar tip and wanted me to become her personal Uber driver. I'm usually pretty good with animals but I'd probably deny any pit bulls for fear of not knowing how the rider has trained them. I have experience with both loving and vicious ones.


Pits can be Service Dogs so enjoy your deactivation.



touberornottouber said:


> I wish they would just add some driver profile options:
> 
> Allow service dogs?
> Allow pets in general?
> ...


You don't have a choice. By law you must accept Service Dogs.



Coffeekeepsmedriving said:


> $20 is a joke..hair is so hard to remove
> 
> you can buy on ebay for $5.00 free shipping..what a joke this country is


A vest doesn't make a dog a Service Dog. Task training to mitigate the handler's disability makes a dog a Service Dog.


----------



## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

So tempted to start saving my cat's fur.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

corniilius said:


> So tempted to start saving my cat's fur.


Why do you can be arrested for wire fraud?


----------



## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

Gotta prove it first.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

corniilius said:


> Gotta prove it first.


You flat out admitted it with your face as your account picture...


----------



## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> You flat out admitted it with your face as your account picture...


What did I admit?


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

What if there is a pool trip with two fake service dogs that don't know each other, and they have a fight leaving blood-borne pathogens all over the interior?


----------



## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

So many posts...

About service dogs...

What if we just tell the pax...

To ride the dog...






Rakos


----------



## Trunkcorpse (Oct 27, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Exactly what is wrong with the ADA?


In this thread, several people have made valid points about problems they see with it. Bye Felicia. Not arguing with you


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Trunkcorpse said:


> That's a pretty lame argument. There are so many laws that just plain suck and aren't challenged for a relatively long time. Slavery comes to mind (that was 100+ years,) child labor, women's suffrage, etc.
> 
> The point is, the current ADA is not perfect, and to blindly defend it (pun cruely intended) is not helping anyone.


Its not that The ADA hasnt been challenged in 27 years. On the contrary, it's challenged often. Ubers settlement with the federation for blind is a de facto challenge of the ADA law. They settled knowing they would lose.

Stronger cases have been thrown at the ADA and it's survived. It aint going anywhere.


----------



## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> You don't have a choice. By law you must accept Service Dogs.


Absolutely correct, take animal, 1star, request cleaning fee. Have a nice day!


----------



## bubba65 (Jul 10, 2017)

I carry a blanket in back just for that reason, no pups sitting on my leather.


----------



## HarryCanyon (May 8, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


Yeah. And that's why "service" dogs are a joke.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> *So, ........, are you gonna gouge your arm with a broken bottle and say the dog mauled you?*


 Yes, he'll probably hit an artery, bleed out, but goddamnit it will be worth it just to prove a point to those fakers!

SMH.

To the individuals on here claiming that they will melt a Hershey bar or put fake poop down, take a photo, and then receive a cleaning fee : YOU are the reason I cannot get Uber to pay me for a LEGITIMATE mess a shitheel pax left in my back seat on Saturday night-The busiest time of the week, surging, an an idiot passenger who had been at outdoor barbecue fire pit party left dirt, sand, twigs, grass, and all sorts of other CRAP across the entire back seat ( where his ass and his overnight bag were placed ) in addition to the floor...where his mud and dirt encrusted shoes were....

I realized it a few rides after the fact, took pictures of the mess from every angle, found a 24 hour car wash and in a totally shady neighborhood of Hollywood, cleaned that crap up, submitted everything to Uber, and they wrote back some bullshit response that didn't even make any sense, claiming they don't provide cleaning fees for smells (??!! WTF??!! I never mentioned any smells in my original email to them, nor did I actually bend over and smell the back seat of my car, that would make me REALLY want to throw up. Hey! then maybe I'll actually get a cleaning fee ! ?!). Once again it was obvious no one had actually looked at the pictures or read my entire (very detailed) message so I wrote back again and again and again and again and they aren't budging. I swear to God I want you to drive to San Francisco to find the person who I've been communicating with. I mean I want to drive to India, LOL. I'll leave it at that because my mind is filled with such evil thoughts and overwhelming anger about what I'd like to do to "DAVID" and his dumb ASS FACE (Waiting for Guffman).

To anyone committing fraud regarding cleaning fees, you are the reason that Uber is getting stricter with people who have legitimate cleaning issues to deal with, I hope that you are proud of yourselves and I really truly hope that you are eventually caught and have to pay back every fraudulent Cleaning fee you've received.



HarryCanyon said:


> Yeah. And that's why "service" dogs are a joke.


Wrong - again, PLEASE educate yourself on this issue.

Service Dogs are a legitimate, protected issue under the ADA.

"Emotional support animals" or "comfort animals" are the ones that are a "joke" as you put it. Literally anyone can get a fake piece of paper and vest claiming that their dog is an emotional support animal.

Service Dogs assist Americans with disabilities of every kind. Hardly a joke, you should be grateful you don't need one. God forbid it ever comes down to you or a loved one actually needing a service dog, you won't think it's such a joke when you are the disabled person in need.


----------



## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> This is very typical for a beta male mangina to say.


Nice.......um.......uneducated..... response.....goober. lol



uberdriverfornow said:


> If the dog gets in and immediately gets on the seat then you can be 100% sure it is NOT a service dog.
> 
> Service dogs are trained NOT to sit on the seat.


Kinda depends on how big the animal is. Unless your floorboards are huge, the German Shepard wont fit anywhere but the seat.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> That sounded angry? Sounded like a theory to me.
> Can you dispute it? I'd be interested to hear YOUR theory.
> 
> Because I see people getting the ax for little or no reason all the time.
> Why do YOU think it happens.


No disputes here - I agree with your statement - Uber will deactivate drivers (based on zero factual information) without giving it a second thought. Not only that, they'll deactivate a driver and then won't give the driver an opportunity to give his explanation/side of the issue. Period, end of story.

That's why I don't understand drivers who won't accept dogs, when it's a fact that Uber will deactivate a driver for refusing a dog.

Every day this forum has a new thread started by a driver who's been deactivated for not accepting a dog into their car. I just can't comprehend why people are still surprised at being deactivated when it's crystal clear that Uber is 100% adamant about the issue.



UBERPROcolorado said:


> What an old topic. I have taken dogs of all sizes, 2 chickens in a pen and a baby goat. Sure, some hair gets on my seats now and then. Big deal. A few quarters and problem solved in 5 minutes.
> 
> I am obsessive about the cleanliness and condition of my car too. But animals are a huge part of people' lives, especially in Denver. So hassling riders about their pets is counter productive. You loose the norm trip and risk deactivation if the wrong rider says the right thing to corporate.
> 
> Drive safe.


I'd LOVE to have a baby goat in my car. LOVE.
Or baby pig. Or baby any animal, really.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> Exactly what is wrong with the ADA?
> 
> Pits can be Service Dogs so enjoy your deactivation.
> 
> ...


its going to be best to just put this troll on ignore i think



RangerBella said:


> Nice.......um.......uneducated..... response.....goober. lol
> 
> Kinda depends on how big the animal is. Unless your floorboards are huge, the German Shepard wont fit anywhere but the seat.


real sa's that have been trained professionally will sit on the floor, they wont attempt to get on the seat at all


----------



## iPHX (Jun 7, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Emotional Support Dogs ("EMS" or "comfort dogs") aren't Service Dogs; EMS dogs are a separate and less regulated genre. Uber has no [easy] way of differentiating (or won't go to the lengths necessary to differentiate), which is why drivers must accept ALL dogs, regardless of their category (Service Dog vs. Emotional Support Dog)
> 
> There ARE legitimate service dogs that provide help and comfort to war veterans and others with PTSD, but again, they are not Emotional Support Dogs. They are licensed Service Dogs.
> 
> ...


I want a dog that can sense where and when it's gonna surge. Imagine how much money that dog could make us if we had nothing but surge and PT rides. Wishful thinking....


----------



## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> What if there is a pool trip with two fake service dogs that don't know each other, and they have a fight leaving blood-borne pathogens all over the interior?


OMG......and what if we have a zombie apocalypse......and the undead rider leaves his infected body part on my back seat?


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Coffeekeepsmedriving said:


> $20 is a joke..hair is so hard to remove
> 
> you can buy on ebay for $5.00 free shipping..what a joke this country is


Actually hair is incredibly simple to get off of your car seat - buy a lint roller for $3 at CVS/Riteaid/Walgreens/Dollar Store and keep it in your glove compartment. Use it whenever a dog (or person with thinning hair) exits your vehicle. Works even better than a vacuum IMO. .


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

RangerBella said:


> OMG......and what if we have a zombie apocalypse......and the undead rider leaves his infected body part on my back seat?


You can actually view service dogs going after each other on YouTube, but I think YouTube takes the messy ones down to avoid PETA.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Trunkcorpse said:


> In this thread, several people have made valid points about problems they see with it. Bye Felicia. Not arguing with you


I'm curious- what are the "valid points" people have pointed out about the problems with the Americans with Disabilities Act? I'm especially interested in hearing from non-disabled people about these problems they have with the ADA. I can barely find anyone without disabilities who knows anything about the ADA....


----------



## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> its going to be best to just put this troll on ignore i think
> 
> real sa's that have been trained professionally will sit on the floor, they wont attempt to get on the seat at all


My point was the dog wont sit where it cannot fit. I know my rear floor boards wont accomodate a full size dog to sit. Was not arguing that they would always ride on the seat. I have a seat cover that is made to protect your seats from riding animals. Works great for catching dog hair and dirty paws.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> You can actually view service dogs going after each other on YouTube, but I think YouTube takes the messy ones down to avoid PETA.


thats all we really need is two fake service dog german shepherds going at it in the back seat


----------



## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

Well shit.......what about a guy and a girl "going at it" in the back seat? Oh......you were talking about.........sorry wrong thread. Lol


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

RangerBella said:


> My point was the dog wont sit where it cannot fit. I know my rear floor boards wont accomodate a full size dog to sit. Was not arguing that they would always ride on the seat. I have a seat cover that is made to protect your seats from riding animals. Works great for catching dog hair and dirty paws.


the issue isnt service dogs, its the fake ones


----------



## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> the issue isnt service dogs, its the fake ones


The problem is......there are to many "professional" opinions here. Like I said in another post......When I need medical advice in the future.....I will be sure to consult my local Uber driver...not. There are sure alot of dog haters here though. More than I wouldve expected. Proven fact.....animal lovers live longer lives.

Uber drivers headstone:

"Here lies Bob the Uber man....

Too many dogs rode in his van....

It ended up being more than he could bare....

To have to vaccuum a lit bit of dog hair."

Lol


----------



## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


Nasty ***** could've cleaned up after herself. Had that happen to me and I had to clean up after her. No $20 isn't enough.



RangerBella said:


> The problem is......there are to many "professional" opinions here. Like I said in another post......When I need medical advice in the future.....I will be sure to consult my local Uber driver...not. There are sure alot of dog haters here though. More than I wouldve expected. Proven fact.....animal lovers live longer lives.
> 
> Uber drivers headstone:
> 
> ...


I agree with fake professionals. I posted and asked if someone knows an attorney. Instead of getting an attorney, I got a ton of worthless legal opinions from undercover Uber/Lyft employees.


----------



## Trunkcorpse (Oct 27, 2017)

Julescase said:


> I'm curious- what are the "valid points" people have pointed out about the problems with the Americans with Disabilities Act?


You made a point that is the crux of the issue for many people here; the ADA doesn't have a standard way to clearly identify what is or is not a service dog. This isn't an Uber problem. It's one problem with the ADA. It's very easy for anyone with a dog to simply lie and say their pet is a service dog. Isn't that the whole point of this thread?



Julescase said:


> Uber has no [easy] way of differentiating (or won't go to the lengths necessary to differentiate), which is why drivers must accept ALL dogs, regardless of their category (Service Dog vs. Emotional Support Dog)
> ..Their presence EVERYWHERE humans are allowed is protected under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) and it's against the the law to refuse entry to a Service Dog.


Is it so difficult to require people with actual service dogs to carry proof of that? That's a problem with the ADA.









That's a problem with the ADA. One you mentioned, but must've forgotten about mentioning. 
So, is your curiosity satisfied, or did you need more "valid points" from someone other than yourself.


----------



## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Trunkcorpse said:


> That's a pretty lame argument. There are so many laws that just plain suck and aren't challenged for a relatively long time. Slavery comes to mind (that was 100+ years,) child labor, women's suffrage, etc.
> 
> The point is, the current ADA is not perfect, and to blindly defend it (pun cruely intended) is not helping anyone.


Was? The biggest lie everyone believes is slavery was abolished in America. It was not abolished read the 13th Amendment.

Yes stupid laws exist without getting challenged.



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> What if there is a pool trip with two fake service dogs that don't know each other, and they have a fight leaving blood-borne pathogens all over the interior?


Consider a pool with 4 riders all have service dogs. You better take them all!!!!!!

Uber lyft is just awful.



Julescase said:


> Yes, he'll probably hit an artery, bleed out, but goddamnit it will be worth it just to prove a point to those fakers!
> 
> SMH.
> 
> ...


No they aren't the reason you didn't get paid. Maybe u haven't realized uberlyft screws drivers.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Actually hair is incredibly simple to get off of your car seat - buy a lint roller for $3 at CVS/Riteaid/Walgreens/Dollar Store and keep it in your glove compartment. Use it whenever a dog (or person with thinning hair) exits your vehicle. Works even better than a vacuum IMO. .


Depends on the breed of dog hair. One legitimate service dog shed worse than this issue. I had a lint roller, and it helped very little.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

It's sad you can't refuse undead zombie riders anymore because they claim they have a service animal.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> One legitimate service dog shed worse than this issue.


What does this mean? Translate please.


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Nonya busy said:


> Nasty ***** could've cleaned up after herself. Had that happen to me and I had to clean up after her. No $20 isn't enough.
> 
> I agree with fake professionals. I posted and asked if someone knows an attorney. Instead of getting an attorney, I got a ton of worthless legal opinions from undercover Uber/Lyft employees.


Do you honestly think you should get more than $20 to use a lint roller on some dog hair? It will take literally under 4 minutes, and the very very super sticky lint roller tape will get every single solitary piece of fur off of the upholstery/leather/cloth. It will be the easiest and fastest $20 you ever make.

The folks who are gunning for cleaning fees of over $20 to pick some hair off their car seats are the folks ruining the possibility of getting cleaning fees for true messes for other drivers.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> What does this mean? Translate please.


It means the TRUE service dog shed more than the fake one, because of the grooming deficit!

The fake service dog was her baby and took good care of it, despite it still shed hair on my seat.



Julescase said:


> The folks who are gunning for cleaning fees of over $20 to pick some hair off their car seats are the folks ruining the possibility of getting cleaning fees for true messes for other drivers.


I just started this thread less than a week ago, and you say there is a spike with cleaning fee claims?


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> It means the TRUE service dog shed more than the fake one, because of the grooming deficit!


So, a 'true' service dog that is a hairless Chihuahua will shed more than an 'untrue' service dog that is Chow?

Is that because people who rely on these dogs for their life don't take care of them as well as a dog that's just a pet?


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> So, a 'true' service dog that is a hairless Chihuahua will she more than an 'untrue' service dog that is Chow?
> 
> Is that because people who rely on these dogs for their life don't take care of them as well as a dog that's just a pet?


Go to a barber shop and have a blind person take care of your hair, and see how it goes. LOL!

No milk bone for you.....


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Trunkcorpse said:


> You made a point that is the crux of the issue for many people here; the ADA doesn't have a standard way to clearly identify what is or is not a service dog. This isn't an Uber problem. It's one problem with the ADA. It's very easy for anyone with a dog to simply lie and say their pet is a service dog. Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
> 
> Is it so difficult to require people with actual service dogs to carry proof of that? That's a problem with the ADA.
> 
> ...


It's an UBER problem because Uber has stated that Service Dogs need to be accepted and Uber PAX are lying in order to tote their dogs around.... the PAX are causing the issue. Why blame the ADA for Uber's lying, shitheel pax? The ADA was created long before Uber graced this planet with its presence.

Don't blame the law, blame the thousands of lying assholes who try to skirt it while lying, cheating, and deceiving just to get their way.

The only thing that needs to happen for this problem to become a non-issue if for entitled, lying pax to stop their lying and leave their non-Service Dogs at home. As long as pax remain the entitled lot that they've proven to be, this problem will continue.


----------



## Trunkcorpse (Oct 27, 2017)

Julescase said:


> It's an UBER problem because Uber has stated that Service Dogs need to be accepted and Uber PAX are lying in order to tote their dogs around.... the PAX are causing the issue. Why blame the ADA for Uber's lying, shitheel pax? The ADA was created long before Uber graced this planet with its presence.
> 
> Don't blame the law, blame the thousands of lying assholes who try to skirt it while lying, cheating, and deceiving just to get their way.
> 
> The only thing that needs to happen for this problem to become a non-issue if for entitled, lying pax to stop their lying and leave their non-Service Dogs at home. As long as pax remain the entitled lot that they've proven to be, this problem will continue.


Nevermind


----------



## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Do you honestly think you should get more than $20 to use a lint roller on some dog hair? It will take literally under 4 minutes, and the very very super sticky lint roller tape will get every single solitary piece of fur off of the upholstery/leather/cloth. It will be the easiest and fastest $20 you ever make.
> 
> The folks who are gunning for cleaning fees of over $20 to pick some hair off their car seats are the folks ruining the possibility of getting cleaning fees for true messes for other drivers.


Yes. *I'm not a maid for a $2.75 ride. *

If they don't want a fee, they should clean it when they leave. Also, if they know they have to pay, they wouldn't lie saying its a service dog.


----------



## Ubernomics (Nov 11, 2015)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


I took a service dog and entire back seat loaded with hair took 30 minutes to get hair out. No problem taking the service dog it just costs more for the ride for the cleanup afterwards.


----------



## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> its going to be best to just put this troll on ignore i think
> 
> real sa's that have been trained professionally will sit on the floor, they wont attempt to get on the seat at all


I'm trolling by asking what is wrong with the ADA? Also who said they won't go on the seat?



Julescase said:


> I'm curious- what are the "valid points" people have pointed out about the problems with the Americans with Disabilities Act? I'm especially interested in hearing from non-disabled people about these problems they have with the ADA. I can barely find anyone without disabilities who knows anything about the ADA....


Beats me. When I asked I got called a troll.










Trunkcorpse said:


> You made a point that is the crux of the issue for many people here; the ADA doesn't have a standard way to clearly identify what is or is not a service dog. This isn't an Uber problem. It's one problem with the ADA. It's very easy for anyone with a dog to simply lie and say their pet is a service dog. Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
> 
> Is it so difficult to require people with actual service dogs to carry proof of that? That's a problem with the ADA.
> 
> ...


There are ways to tell if it's a Service Dog. It would help if you read the ADA first before you argued about it.
Https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm



UberBastid said:


> So, a 'true' service dog that is a hairless Chihuahua will shed more than an 'untrue' service dog that is Chow?
> 
> Is that because people who rely on these dogs for their life don't take care of them as well as a dog that's just a pet?


In my experience Service Dog handlers take much better care of their dogs than pet owners.
My Service Dog gets a bath every week and brushed daily. He also has his own shoes and wears them when we go out.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

What if the "service dog" handler refused to answer those two questions, then what?


----------



## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Depends on the breed of dog hair. One legitimate service dog shed worse than this issue. I had a lint roller, and it helped very little.


 Then you bought a busted lint roller.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Then you bought a busted lint roller.


Whatever.

Now, what should a driver do if the pax refuses to answer the two required questions mandated by the ADA?



ServiceDogHandler said:


> I'm trolling by asking what is wrong with the ADA? Also who said they won't go on the seat?


Here is a confessed fake on the main stream media, and how the perpetrator went about committing the crime.



> Genevieve says she doesn't have a need for an emotional support animal and just wanted to fly with her dog Kali.


----------



## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Whatever.
> 
> Now, what should a driver do if the pax refuses to answer the two required questions mandated by the ADA?


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the ADA (as I read it) would allow a business owner or manager to refuse to accommodate the dog in question. *However, Uber will apparently deactivate you if the pax complains.* So you're back to square one.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Older Chauffeur said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the ADA (as I read it) would allow a business owner or manager to refuse to accommodate the dog in question. *However, Uber will apparently deactivate you if the pax complains.* So you're back to square one.


This news story, in Florida, says the driver / operator *can call the police *and have the officer investigate, and have the dog owner arrested if it were found to be fake.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

uberdavid said:


> View attachment 184565
> 
> Kitty Kitty


Service Cat Middle Eastern Style


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Sounds fair, especially since you could have rejected her for saying its a therapy dog. Sounds like an easy $20


Until you have a subsequent rider who says "I see you have dogs" and it wasn't about the hair. She was allergic and could tell there had been a dog in the car.



UberBastid said:


> I have a niece; young and pretty and apparently healthy.
> She is diabetic. Like few people are diabetic. She goes into diabetic shock in seconds. She will test now and it will be 100, an hour later with nothing changing, she is in an ambulance with a blood sugar above 300.
> She now has a dog. Has had Grouper for a couple of years now. A dash hound. He can smell the chemical changes in her body, and warn her that she is about to faceplant. When he gives the signal, she goes into immediate action. He has saved her a couple of times.
> May have saved her life.


That is awesome! People with assistance animals also need to accept responsibility for whatever mess their dogs might leave in Uber cars. In the case of this post, she should probably carry a dog hair roller and spiff up the car when she leaves.


----------



## Nagodesi (Aug 20, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> I have a niece; young and pretty and apparently healthy.
> She is diabetic. Like few people are diabetic. She goes into diabetic shock in seconds. She will test now and it will be 100, an hour later with nothing changing, she is in an ambulance with a blood sugar above 300.
> She now has a dog. Has had Grouper for a couple of years now. A dash hound. He can smell the chemical changes in her body, and warn her that she is about to faceplant. When he gives the signal, she goes into immediate action. He has saved her a couple of times.
> May have saved her life.


Wow 300 blood sugar, i'm normally 800 a walking time bomb for the past 20 years now, I never got a dog..


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


I've given many a ride to people with their dogs that weren't therapy animals, they were just cute little pups like my own. The owners always held them and there's never been a problem. I also carry a huge bath towel in my trunk to cover the seat if need be, but mostly use that to dry off my car after washing. I bought a whole back seat animal cover, but have never had to use it yet for rideshare, but do use it for my own dogs.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Nagodesi said:


> Wow 300 blood sugar, i'm normally 800 a walking time bomb for the past 20 years now, I never got a dog..


I've been known to go over 400, but yes, I see how the fraud comes into this equation as well with diabetes.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> Emotional support dogs are NOT Service Dogs. Their owners may have certain rights regarding them when it comes to housing in some states, but they are not covered by the ADA.


I didn't know that.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> I've given many a ride to people with their dogs that weren't therapy animals, they were just cute little pups like my own. The owners always held them and there's never been a problem. I also carry a huge bath towel in my trunk to cover the seat if need be, but mostly use that to dry off my car after washing. I bought a whole back seat animal cover, but have never had to use it yet for rideshare, but do use it for my own dogs.


I can't stand liars. If the person was up front and respectful about it, then I will consider it better. Also, I have picked up at veterinarians offices, and most of those dogs are covered with a blanket or in a carrier.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> I don't know if Uber just paid me the 20 bucks, or took it from the pax account then paid me?


I would think it came from the passenger's account; something she will learn a hard life lesson for not better grooming her dog and/or trying to pass a non-service animal off as one in training, etc. She'll learn there are costs to lying. When I had a very sheddy dog, I would vacuum her regularly.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Service Cat Middle Eastern Style


Rich people with their exotic pet.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> If it was her first or second report, no. After that they get charged.


At a minimum, Uber should at least notify her they paid a $20 cleaning fee for her service animal and then state she would be charged subsequently.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> At a minimum, Uber should at least notify her they paid a $20 cleaning fee for her service animal and then state she would be charged subsequently.


And maybe next time, she will stick that dog in a sleeping bag (to transport) or something!


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

leroy jenkins said:


> no legal protection for a "therapy animal." ADA covers a "service animal" only. We've beaten this topic to death in the Chicago forum. Search if interested.
> 
> But ya, OP was in a lose-lose situation. Even though OP is 100% legally right to refuse that dog, pax would complain and OP might get temp. deactivated by a CSR in India. No matter what the law says.
> 
> Congrats for coming out $20 ahead.


I don't know if I see it $20 ahead when you have to go offline to get to your car wash (I have a monthly pass and it's worth every penny); go through the entire car wash in order to get to the vacuums. It takes you offline for a while and then once you log back on, it seems to me time for a break will take you longer to get back into the rhythm of even getting rides. I wish Uber had a "button" feature to "take 15 minute break" which would also keep you from getting stacked calls when it's really busy. Which is rare now, but one can hope.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> I don't know if I see it $20 ahead when you have to go offline to get to your car wash (I have a monthly pass and it's worth every penny); go through the entire car wash in order to get to the vacuums. It takes you offline for a while and then once you log back on, it seems to me time for a break will take you longer to get back into the rhythm of even getting rides. I wish Uber had a "button" feature to "take 15 minute break" which would also keep you from getting stacked calls when it's really busy. Which is rare now, but one can hope.


Luckily, I was near a carwash with vacs at dropoff. 30 minute downtime in a slow period.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Yes, if the dog is for anxiety and legally REGISTERED as a _Service Animal,_ absolutely it's a service animal. But people on this site seem very confused about the difference between SAs and ESAs. A SA registered for severe anxiety and an ESA for a person who had their psychologist type a letter so they could get theirs dog to be classified as an ESA (to bring on planes, etc) are 2 different things.
> 
> If you go to the link I provided, or even just look at the thumbnail picture I provided, it's clearly explained in black-and-white. It's so bizarre to me that people on this forum would rather argue in the comments then actually go to a link and read the FAQs (and facts) from the Federal Government's website on the issue.
> 
> ...


What you are showing are regulations that most of us have already read, as well as Uber saying we must take Service Animals, but nothing about saying we must take ALL ANIMALS or be deactivated. Perhaps that would help flesh out your argument.



DrivingForYou said:


> okay let me put it another way - you are making statements that are confusing, ambiguous, and from appearances saying things you may not mean implicitly.


Uber does NOT require that we take all pets. Here's the link to the page telling riders that we can refuse all but Service Animals:
https://help.uber.com/h/94ddcfe8-5339-4e78-a3af-3667dec55362



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


I'm hoping this link will show up early in this thread, that Uber does NOT require that we accept all pets, but we do accept Service animals. Someone here is saying Uber requires that we take all dogs. Not true:
https://help.uber.com/h/94ddcfe8-5339-4e78-a3af-3667dec55362



Julescase said:


> Also, it concerns me a little bit since this is related to what I've been doing professionally for the last two decades. So I guess my boss is the one who's the loser in this whole scenario, since he thought I knew what I was doing and I thought I knew what I was doing.


https://help.uber.com/h/94ddcfe8-5339-4e78-a3af-3667dec55362


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> I don't know if I see it $20 ahead when you have to go offline to get to your car wash (I have a monthly pass and it's worth every penny); go through the entire car wash in order to get to the vacuums. It takes you offline for a while and then once you log back on, it seems to me time for a break will take you longer to get back into the rhythm of even getting rides. I wish Uber had a "button" feature to "take 15 minute break" which would also keep you from getting stacked calls when it's really busy. Which is rare now, but one can hope.


You already have such a button. It's called stop further requests or stop future requests. It's on the cancel screen down at the bottom. You tap it, go back out to your main screen continue your ride and when your ride is completed you will get a little pop-up that'll come up and ask you if you want to go offline or stay online. You can use this as soon as you accept a pool ride, as well, to avoid having any other passengers added to it.


----------



## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

If we don't have a dash cam, I suppose we could do this via text message. Ask the pertinent questions, they respond and we screen shot the conversation for later use. Plus a photo of said animal in question.???



Julescase said:


> He was born a guide dog? That's amazing - and he had absolutely no training?! He's probably the first and last dog that came out of the womb with the abilities necessary to be a guide dog. He must be a miracle of science.


He said he never took any tests, not that he had not been trained.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> I didn't know that.


Therapy dogs aren't, either. I'm not sure about service dogs still in training, either. I think they need to have at least two tasks (not pet training like "sit" and "stay") mastered before they can be legally considered Service Dogs (if someone KNOWS better, please do correct me here!) and be covered under the ADA. There's nothing saying a Service Dog can't get training past that, tho, as the handler's needs may warrant.

Another thing... territorial dogs that become "threateningly" aggressive or protective, even of their handler, are disqualified as Service Dogs. Dogs trained to be a barrier between their handler and others will do so by standing sideways between the people, not facing the other person head-on.

And even if you are service dog friendly, or dog friendly in general, do not speak to the animal, touch the animal, or in any way engage it. It is working, and distracting it, even with the best of intentions, is a crime. Address the owner. The dog is medical equipment, although alive. You wouldn't tell someone's oxygen tank how cute it is.

Example (not that it would happen in your car, mind you):

Wrong: "Oooooh, look at the good puppy! What a sweet puppy! Would you like some water?"

Correct: "Sir/Madam, is there any accomodation you or your service dog might like that will make things easier? I see he's panting a little, and it's a bit warm today. Can I provide you with some water to give him?"



Dropking said:


> The ADA is for disabilities, which are defined as both physical and mental disabilities. If a psychiatrist prescribes a dog for a mental disability (like high anxiety), the dog can be trained and registered (as many are).
> 
> Barkin' up the wrong tree.


You are partially correct. Yes there are service dogs for people who have mental or emotional issues. They are trained to perform specific tasks related to that disability, however. These are not emotional support animals.

An emotional support animal is not necessarily trained. It is just an animal that the person who has an emotional or psychological issue has formed a strong attachment to, and has significant benefit from having this association with this animal. I have an autistic child. He has formed a phenomenal Bond with one of our cats. It really is amazing. This doesn't make the cat service animal, and not only because it's a cat or a miniature horse. The cat does perform tasks that do help my son, but he wasn't trained to do so and he doesn't do it consistently enough. His biggest task is to let my son snuggle him whenever he needs to. An emotional support animal is not about the animal, but rather about the person's need for 1. Also, if a person is looking for housing and wants an emotional support animal with them and to receive the benefits that the law provides regarding them, they do have to have a certificate to show potential landlords to prove that they actually have a need for the animal. They do not have to prove what their medical condition is specifically, but they do need the doctor to verify that there is a need. And not all states recognize anyone's right to an emotional support animal, or to a therapy animal.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

Guys, all this legal grandstanding doesn't make a bit of difference. 
The reality is any passenger can PRESS BUTTONS AND COMPLAIN AND YOU LOSE. 
Then you have to submit a video, proof, etc and hope to get your account reactivated.
That is right, you hope you get your account back, it's not definite.
Take the animal, 1 star, request cleaning fees from either real or fake fur/poop/urine. 

Can't wait for the cool edgy "smart" kids to figure out that they can get you deactivated by saying you canceled the ride not for the "no-show" but because of a service animal.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Nagodesi said:


> Wow 300 blood sugar, i'm normally 800 a walking time bomb for the past 20 years now, I never got a dog..


Yes. You won't get old, and your death will not be pleasant.
Your choice tho.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> You already have such a button. It's called stop further requests or stop future requests. It's on the cancel screen down at the bottom. You tap it, go back out to your main screen continue your ride and when your ride is completed you will get a little pop-up that'll come up and ask you if you want to go offline or stay online. You can use this as soon as you accept a pool ride, as well, to avoid having any other passengers added to it.


It is not easily accessed like a "button" you need to click on the menu on the top right of the screen to get to that screen, it's dangerous to try to do while driving. I had a rare case of being busy with back-to-back rides and needed to pee like a racehorse, kept getting more rides... Would be nice to just have a "pause rides" button on the main screen. Plus, is it only me, or does it seem like when you go offline, it can take a while to start getting rides again?


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


Wait till you get a great Dane for a service animal like I did. Those humongous paws go where they want. lol!


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## Ubernomics (Nov 11, 2015)

So funny...mysteriously/coincidently LYFT decides to release a informative on service animals this morning?? Do you think that they follow these blogs..lol?



Ubernomics said:


> So funny...mysteriously/coincidently LYFT decides to release a informative on service animals this morning?? Do you think that they follow these blogs..lol?


Dear Lyft 
Time is not free. Drivers should not have to cleanup after passengers at cheap rides rates. Just like you shouldn't have to punch out to go to the bathroom at headquarters. How would you feel if your pay got docked every Time you had to use the bathroom? There is a difference though you are not doing work during this time and drivers are when they have to clean up animal hair. Thank you for your understanding. Put yourself in our shoes for a change.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Ubernomics said:


> So funny...mysteriously/coincidently LYFT decides to release a informative on service animals this morning?? Do you think that they follow these blogs..lol?
> 
> Dear Lyft
> Time is not free. Drivers should not have to cleanup after passengers at cheap rides rates. Just like you shouldn't have to punch out to go to the bathroom at headquarters. How would you feel if your pay got docked every Time you had to use the bathroom? There is a difference though you are not doing work during this time and drivers are when they have to clean up animal hair. Thank you for your understanding. Put yourself in our shoes for a change.


This what they want everyone to watch.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> If we don't have a dash cam, I suppose we could do this via text message. Ask the pertinent questions, they respond and we screen shot the conversation for later use. Plus a photo of said animal in question.???
> 
> He said he never took any tests, not that he had not been trained.


My recommendation would be to just record it on your cell phone. Ask the two questions and if they fail ask them to get out. If they pass just delete the video and start the ride.


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## Ubernomics (Nov 11, 2015)

You can't you will get kicked


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> It is not easily accessed like a "button" you need to click on the menu on the top right of the screen to get to that screen, it's dangerous to try to do while driving. I had a rare case of being busy with back-to-back rides and needed to pee like a racehorse, kept getting more rides... Would be nice to just have a "pause rides" button on the main screen. Plus, is it only me, or does it seem like when you go offline, it can take a while to start getting rides again?


We're not talking about texting while driving here. We're talking about a phone that is mounted and within easy reach for you to press 2 buttons. It's actually part of the job to be able to do at least that. Otherwise, how are you accepting any rides if you're driving?


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> This news story, in Florida, says the driver / operator *can call the police *and have the officer investigate, and have the dog owner arrested if it were found to be fake.


Unfortunately no one, including police, is allowed to ask for certificstion or proof. So there's not way for police to prove if a form is or isn't a service animal. You can only ask two questions, and have to rely on the verbal answers.


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## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

If only Uber put enough scrutiny as they do with their drivers. Why not make the passengers state in their pax accounts they are using a legitimate service dog by uploading the required documents to Uber?


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> What you are showing are regulations that most of us have already read, as well as Uber saying we must take Service Animals, but nothing about saying we must take ALL ANIMALS or be deactivated. Perhaps that would help flesh out your argument.
> 
> Uber does NOT require that we take all pets. Here's the link to the page telling riders that we can refuse all but Service Animals:
> https://help.uber.com/h/94ddcfe8-5339-4e78-a3af-3667dec55362
> ...


 Uber's stance- their official message to drivers- is "You must accept Service Dogs"

But they DEACTIVATE drivers who are reported for not accepting dogs - whether the dogs are Service or Emotional Support dogs. There is no way to tell with 100% certainty that a dog is not a service dog if a pax has decided to lie to you about it.

This forum is filled with threads created by drivers who have been deactivated for not accepting DOGS - you can do a search and find them. They weren't necessarily Service dogs, but we all know pax lie.

That's the issue - Uber doesn't have a way of distinguishing between the service dogs and ESAs so despite telling drivers they must accept SERVICE dogs, they're essentially saying drivers must pick up ALL dogs since it's almost impossible to know which is which.

Personally, I adore dogs - if it was up to me, all of my pax would be of the canine persuasion- so this will never be a problem for me.

However, many drivers seem to be adamant about not allowing dogs into their vehicles, which means they're likely going to run into problems if they piss of the wrong dishonest pax.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> Emotional support dogs are NOT Service Dogs. Their owners may have certain rights regarding them when it comes to housing in some states, but they are not covered by the ADA.


Problem with that assessment is this is a grey area. In SF, not taking a pax & their "service dog" is the quickest way to achieve deactivation. Especially with SF being one of the bluest, PC/SJW conscious, sanctuary cities in the country.

The burden of proof is always on the driver (especially if the pax is a Lyft pink unicorn customer).

At least Uber will attempt to investigate and was decent enough to pay up in this case. Lyft's response is to take the pax side and immediately deactivate the driver. Then add insult to injury by sending follow up nasty cookie cutter policy email/texts.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

metal_orion said:


> If only Uber put enough scrutiny as they do with their drivers. Why not make the passengers state in their pax accounts they are using a legitimate service dog by uploading the required documents to Uber?


What required documents? None exist. Undue burden on the disabled.



Julescase said:


> Uber's stance- their official message to drivers- is "You must accept Service Dogs"
> 
> But they DEACTIVATE drivers who are reported for not accepting dogs - whether the dogs are Service or Emotional Support dogs. There is no way to tell with 100% certainty that a dog is not a service dog if a pax has decided to lie to you about it.
> 
> ...


There is also a thread where a gentlement records every time a dog is oresent and asks the 2 questions. He had 3 videos, all 3 claimed emotional support. He drove off and cancelled. He was deactivated once, offered the video and was reinstated. It was several months ago but i distinctly remember it because it was textbook execution of the two questions.

I have a dash cam, I'm not worried. 1700 trips and never got a dog request; service or otherwise. Although I drive mostly during drunk bar scenes, I dont think brining a service dog out to get wasted is common.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Uber's stance- their official message to drivers- is "You must accept Service Dogs"
> 
> But they DEACTIVATE drivers who are reported for not accepting dogs - whether the dogs are Service or Emotional Support dogs. There is no way to tell with 100% certainty that a dog is not a service dog if a pax has decided to lie to you about it.
> 
> ...


It's so old hearing you gripe about the same bit. People don't have a problem with legitimate service dogs that are trained not to get in your seat and shit on your seat. The issue is with every tom, dick, and harry with a dog calling it a service dog and expecting people to take their dog.

Quit acting like everyone doesn't like dogs. I love dogs. I will take any legitimate service dog. But dogs that clearly aren't service dogs are getting the boot.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> Unfortunately no one, including police, is allowed to ask for certificstion or proof. So there's not way for police to prove if a form is or isn't a service animal. You can only ask two questions, and have to rely on the verbal answers.


The police can ask more than the two questions.



metal_orion said:


> If only Uber put enough scrutiny as they do with their drivers. Why not make the passengers state in their pax accounts they are using a legitimate service dog by uploading the required documents to Uber?


What documentation would that be? I do t have any for my Service Dog.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

ServiceDogHandler said:


> The police can ask more than the two questions..


No, there is no exception to the law for police. Ever hear of the fifth amendment?

Sure, in the "abstract" police can ask "whatever" but you never have to answer any other questions, and failing to answer any other questions cannot be punished.

It goes like this:

Cop: is your dog required for a disability?

ADA Citizen: yes.

Cop: what is your dog trained to do?

ADA Citizen: sense glucose levels.

Cop: is your dog certified?

ADA Citizen: I have answered your legal questions, and I object to any further questions, and I will not answer any further questions. Am I free to go?

Cop: you are free to go.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> No, there is no exception to the law for police. Ever hear of the fifth amendment?
> 
> Sure, in the "abstract" police can ask "whatever" but you never have to answer any other questions, and failing to answer any other questions cannot be punished.
> 
> ...


I believe if the officer observes the animal acting up, then I think that is enough suspicion for due process -- to take it steps further.

I'd like too see one day the police challenge this with due process of law in order to quell fraudulent dog owners.

The public has not seen the end of this with pets being exploited as Fake Service Dogs, and I wonder if PETA would ever weigh in on this subject, because this is unethical treatment of an animal -- on a wide scale.

.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> I believe if the officer observes the animal acting up, then I think that is enough suspicion for due process -- to take it steps further.
> 
> I'd like too see one day the police challenge this with due process of law in order to quell fraudulent dog owners.
> 
> ...


PETA is against Service Dogs in general and their fans are known to try to steal or poison Service Dogs.



DrivingForYou said:


> No, there is no exception to the law for police. Ever hear of the fifth amendment?
> 
> Sure, in the "abstract" police can ask "whatever" but you never have to answer any other questions, and failing to answer any other questions cannot be punished.
> 
> ...


The 5th amendment doesn't protect you from criminal prosecution. If a dog is not acting as a Service Dog should the police can ask whatever they want. The ADA only restricts covered entities. Meaning if you go into a police station the employees can only ask two questions but if you're in a separate business then they can ask whatever they want. I know most of my local law enforcement and have taught them a great deal about Service Dog laws on the state and federal level.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> I believe if the officer observes the animal acting up, then I think that is enough suspicion for due process -- to take it steps further.
> 
> I'd like too see one day the police challenge this with due process of law in order to quell fraudulent dog owners.
> 
> .


I would too. I'd like to see the ADA changed substantially.



ServiceDogHandler said:


> The 5th amendment doesn't protect you from criminal prosecution. If a dog is not acting as a Service Dog should the police can ask whatever they want. The ADA only restricts covered entities. Meaning if you go into a police station the employees can only ask two questions but if you're in a separate business then they can ask whatever they want. I know most of my local law enforcement and have taught them a great deal about Service Dog laws on the state and federal level.


To rise to the level of "probable cause", the dog would have to show itself to be a clear and present danger, or actually injure someone. In such a case, animal control can confiscate the animal. THEN it would become the owners responsibility to "prove" the nature of the dog's training.

But "acting up" does not rise to the level of "probable cause". There is nothing in the ADA that give the police special powers of questioning. And in fact, you as a citizen are NEVER required to answer a question when asked, PERIOD.

(In some states you MAY have to state your name in some circumstances).

FWIW I'm a former civil liberties columnist. Here's a useful site:

Http://YouAndThePolice.com


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## Patricia Trowbridge (Dec 12, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


Service dogs are not for blind people only. Deaf and Hard of Hearing people do have 'Hearing Dog' . Also any service dogs are supposed to have some kind of vests on.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Patricia Trowbridge said:


> Service dogs are not for blind people only. Deaf and Hard of Hearing people do have 'Hearing Dog' . Also any service dogs are supposed to have some kind of vests on.


Per the ADA FAQS page:
*Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?*

*A*. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Per the ADA FAQS page:
> *Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?*
> 
> *A*. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.


But if you want to deceive the public, then you should get phoney documentation and a harness.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> No, I was pressured to pick her and the dog up. If I would have cancelled, then she would have raised hell and had me deactivated.
> 
> She told me that her Pet Deposit was waived at the apartment complex where I picked her up at. In the conversation, I sensed her lying about a couple of things unrelated.
> *
> ...


Service dogs in traini my are considered the same as real service dogs. Training requires they experience real life situations with there owner so they can take care of them.



SuzeCB said:


> Emotional support dogs are NOT Service Dogs. Their owners may have certain rights regarding them when it comes to housing in some states, but they are not covered by the ADA.


Emotional support dogs can be service dogs if they perform a task. For example, if you're having a panic attack they can lay on y ok, or prevent you from hurting yourself by forcing you to pet them or something else.

Now if the dog just being there provides support then it's not a service dog.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

empresstabitha said:


> Service dogs in traini my are considered the same as real service dogs. Training requires they experience real life situations with there owner so they can take care of them.
> 
> Emotional support dogs can be service dogs if they perform a task. For example, if you're having a panic attack they can lay on y ok, or prevent you from hurting yourself by forcing you to pet them or something else.
> 
> Now if the dog just being there provides support then it's not a service dog.


You should go back over these pages with sources other posters had provided, because you are wrong.

Become educated if you will?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

empresstabitha said:


> Service dogs in traini my are considered the same as real service dogs. Training requires they experience real life situations with there owner so they can take care of them.
> 
> Emotional support dogs can be service dogs if they perform a task. For example, if you're having a panic attack they can lay on y ok, or prevent you from hurting yourself by forcing you to pet them or something else.
> 
> Now if the dog just being there provides support then it's not a service dog.


But then they cease being ESAs and become Service Animals. That's the difference. A paid companion for someone who is home-bound is not a doctor, or a nurse, or even a home health aide.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

empresstabitha said:


> Service dogs in traini my are considered the same as real service dogs. Training requires they experience real life situations with there owner so they can take care of them.


Again I suggest reading the ADA FAQs:
*Q6. Are service-animals-in-training considered service animals under the ADA?
A*. No. Under the ADA, the dog must already be trained before it can be taken into public places. However, some State or local laws cover animals that are still in training.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberBastid said:


> I have a niece; young and pretty and apparently healthy.
> She is diabetic. Like few people are diabetic. She goes into diabetic shock in seconds. She will test now and it will be 100, an hour later with nothing changing, she is in an ambulance with a blood sugar above 300.
> She now has a dog. Has had Grouper for a couple of years now. A dash hound. He can smell the chemical changes in her body, and warn her that she is about to faceplant. When he gives the signal, she goes into immediate action. He has saved her a couple of times.
> May have saved her life.


And, for this reason, the best thing to do is just take service dogs, and not impose on them more trauma having to defend their dog and their impairment, facts of life they have to deal with day of their lives.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Julescase said:


> Yes, he'll probably hit an artery, bleed out, but goddamnit it will be worth it just to prove a point to those fakers!
> 
> SMH.
> 
> ...


Realizing it "a few rides after the fact" is probably your mistake. You need to ID the rider at fault immediately and be offline for an hour. If you take other riders the assumption is it wasn't so bad you couldn't work.



Trunkcorpse said:


> You made a point that is the crux of the issue for many people here; the ADA doesn't have a standard way to clearly identify what is or is not a service dog. This isn't an Uber problem. It's one problem with the ADA. It's very easy for anyone with a dog to simply lie and say their pet is a service dog. Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
> 
> Is it so difficult to require people with actual service dogs to carry proof of that? That's a problem with the ADA.
> 
> ...


The problem is that a person who forgot or lost their "proof" could end up stranded or unable to go somewhere anyone else can go, without proof. Plus fake certificates would immediately pop up everywhere, and the problem would persist in any case.

So it wouldn't FIX the fake service dog issue and could leave someone who truly needs their service dog in a very difficult, potentially life threatening situation.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> You should go back over these pages with sources other posters had provided, because you are wrong.
> 
> Become educated if you will?


Here's a source. The ADA
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

"person with depression may have a dog that is trained to remind her to take her medication"

*"Q4. If someone's dog calms them when having an anxiety attack, does this qualify it as a service animal?*

*A*. It depends. The ADA makes a distinction between psychiatric service animals and emotional support animals. If the dog has been trained to sense that an anxiety attack is about to happen and take a specific action to help avoid the attack or lessen its impact, that would qualify as a service animal. However, if the dog's mere presence provides comfort, that would not be considered a service animal under the ADA."

So let me make myself clearer, an animal you may perceive to be an emotional support dog can be a service animal.



Older Chauffeur said:


> Again I suggest reading the ADA FAQs:
> *Q6. Are service-animals-in-training considered service animals under the ADA?
> A*. No. Under the ADA, the dog must already be trained before it can be taken into public places. However, some State or local laws cover animals that are still in training.


Let me clarify again. In California I'm pretty sure a service dog in training can be allowed anywhere a regular service dog goes. And since most service dogs in training are typically with trainers then it's sort of the same. And I'm pretty sure San Francisco allows them regardless of a certified trainer being there or not.



SuzeCB said:


> But then they cease being ESAs and become Service Animals. That's the difference. A paid companion for someone who is home-bound is not a doctor, or a nurse, or even a home health aide.


True but sometime people perceive service dogs who help with anxiety as emotional support animals. Some people don't realize that a service dog can help with depression and anxiety


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Julescase said:


> Well, you can definitely take them with you as a pax on an Uber ride!


Only if the driver agrees.



ServiceDogHandler said:


> The police can ask more than the two questions.
> 
> What documentation would that be? I do t have any for my Service Dog.


What else can the police ask? And under what circumstances? I believe they are limited to the same as the rest of us unless actually detaining/taking someone into custody, or sorting out things in a *big* emergency situation--like a bombing or natural disaster, etc.


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> Only if the driver agrees.
> 
> What else can the police ask? And under what circumstances? I believe they are limited to the same as the rest of us unless actually detaining/taking someone into custody, or sorting out things in a *big* emergency situation--like a bombing or natural disaster, etc.


Once the police stopped me and a driver I was with. I told them my dog was a service dog and refused to answer any more questions. I was temporarily detained, and separated from my dog. (they have kennels specifically for situations like this) then found his paperwork in my wallet. info pamphlet, and prescription from my doctor, and a note from doctor explaining my disability and need for dog, which I never show anyone. (I keep it safe, I don't pull it out and wave it in peoples faces) They apologized to me and returned my dog and let me go and dropped all charges. police don't care about your rights, they only care about what they can get away with. The cops didn't even seem aware of the ADA and i've never heard a cop mention the 'two questions'

Also, when I was a cop for the military, and also went to joint training with local PD and Sheriffs department, training never mentioned ADA, was focused on use of force, building clearing, and being alive at the end of the day and lawsuit free.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

wingdog said:


> Once the police stopped me and a driver I was with. I told them my dog was a service dog and refused to answer any more questions. I was temporarily detained, and separated from my dog. (they have kennels specifically for situations like this) then found his paperwork in my wallet. info pamphlet, and prescription from my doctor, and a note from doctor explaining my disability and need for dog, which I never show anyone. (I keep it safe, I don't pull it out and wave it in peoples faces) They apologized to me and returned my dog and let me go and dropped all charges. police don't care about your rights, they only care about what they can get away with. The cops didn't even seem aware of the ADA and i've never heard a cop mention the 'two questions'
> 
> Also, when I was a cop for the military, and also went to joint training with local PD and Sheriffs department, training never mentioned ADA, was focused on use of force, building clearing, and being alive at the end of the day and lawsuit free.


And of course you let them get away with it, right? So that they can continue to do this to other people?


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

I paid for the drivers lawyer, got his charges dropped to. don't know what else I could do.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

wingdog said:


> I paid for the drivers lawyer, got his charges dropped to. don't know what else I could do.


There is a reason that our society is so litigious. Of course, part of it is that many of us are greedy, but it's not just the plaintiff in a lawsuit that is greedy. Corporations, government agencies, etc., learn their lessons when it costs money and when it generates bad PR.

The cop violated the Civil Rights of a disabled person (you). You did nothing about it. He will do it to other people until someone sues him and the police department he belongs to, and they retrain him because of it, or let him go.


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## Sdematos71 (Dec 18, 2017)

Wow, a lot of info in just this one post. My wife works for an airline and has had customers demanding free seats for their "service dogs" instead of paying for the seats and I know that it creates a big problem. Some people do follow the laws and regulations but others always seem to try to take advantage of situations.

Thanks for all the info cuz it has cleared up so many questions in which I'll be prepared for this situation. But to you that know better I have one question.
Besides the service vest, is there an identification type card that the owner can provide, our is it even legal to ask fit such a thing, not trying to offend the customer on Uber or in my wife's case?


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


They ALL claim .................... " This is a service dog " crap .


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

moJohoJo said:


> They ALL claim .................... " This is a service dog " crap .


It's perfectly normal for young people to lie these days. Morals have changed a bit in the past few decades.


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

Sdematos71 said:


> Wow, a lot of info in just this one post. My wife works for an airline and has had customers demanding free seats for their "service dogs" instead of paying for the seats and I know that it creates a big problem. Some people do follow the laws and regulations but others always seem to try to take advantage of situations.
> 
> Thanks for all the info cuz it has cleared up so many questions in which I'll be prepared for this situation. But to you that know better I have one question.
> Besides the service vest, is there an identification type card that the owner can provide, our is it even legal to ask fit such a thing, not trying to offend the customer on Uber or in my wife's case?


The vest doesn't mean anything. My service dog does not wear a vest. you can not ask for a card, id, registration etc. any id is probably fake anyways. I carry legitimate paperwork for my dog at all times, (service dog org info card, letters and prescriptions from doctors). I do not show them to anyone for any reason. Not even the police. (although the police will find it on their own after searching me). They are for my use, to show to my lawyers and to enter as evidence in a court of law only.

you may only ask two questions:
Is that a service dog?
and if they say: yes
What tasks is it trained to preform?
and they will if they are a legitimate properly trained dog/handler team answer:
(s)he is trained to remind me to take my medicine, and to help me with doors.

The handler may choose to disclose other tasks but is not required to. Regardless of disability just about all dogs are trained on those (or similar ) generic tasks so they can answer without having to give up their hippa/privacy rights. many disabilities are not visible, and it really is none of your business what kind of a disability someone has. I have had "sandwich artists" attempt to try to bully & intimidate me into an impromptu medical evaluation before. corporate where pissed at the store, and where just happy I called them about it and not DoJ. This was back when I used to answer more specifically, but because of this incident and legal advice from multiple official sources I now answer as generically as possible. You are NOT medically trained to diagnose (confirm) someones disability. We (the disabled) have NO legal obligation, or reason to disclose. In fact, we get legal advice to do the opposite, because disclosure to the ignorant can just lead to further problems as they make further uninformed actions escalating the problem.

It is illegal to pressure them any further after they answer those two questions.

If someone answers the second question with a plausible answer they are either legit, or a good enough faker they have kept their dog under control and behaved to not cause damages and get them called out on it and hit with fraud charges and fines & jail time.

If the dog is legit the handler is still civilly responsible to any damages the dog causes (besides normal shedding, which humans also do. Long haired people tend to leave long hair sheddings also)

I've had lots of problems at safeway recently. I went back in today since they have the big eggnogs and target doesn't, even though I usually go to target because they NEVER hassle me about my dog (yay for properly trained employees) and as always a manager and a cashier got uppity about it, and did not ask me the two questions. After telling them he was a service dog and getting flack from them I simply asked them point blank. "are you refusing me reasonable accommodations and asking me to leave your business?" They answered no and dropped it, although the manager insisted I sterilized the shopping cart even though the dog never came into contact with it *rolls eyes* I always have wipes anyways for such situations and promised I would (and did)


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

wingdog said:


> The vest doesn't mean anything. My service dog does not wear a vest. you can not ask for a card, id, registration etc. any id is probably fake anyways. I carry legitimate paperwork for my dog at all times, (service dog org info card, letters and prescriptions from doctors). I do not show them to anyone for any reason. Not even the police. (although the police will find it on their own after searching me). They are for my use, to show to my lawyers and to enter as evidence in a court of law only.
> 
> you may only ask two questions:
> Is that a service dog?
> ...


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


>


This is why I order take out as often as possible, and go out to eat during non-busy times and request to be seated as far away from other customers as possible. I also clean up after my dog, thank them personally, and leave a large tip if they follow proper protocol. I've found that by leading the conversation with me asking them if its ok for me to accommodate (compromise) with them softens them up and signals that I'm not one of those entitled fakers. For instance if i'm uber/lyfting as a pax I'll ask, 'This is my service dog, is it ok if he sits on my lap/his towel so he doesn't shed on your car?'

Relevant to this thread:
*CIVIL MONETARY PENALITIES INFLATION ADJUSTMENT UNDER TITLE III*
On March 28, 2014, the Department of Justice issued a *Final Rule* that adjusts for inflation the civil monetary penalties assessed or enforced by the Civil Rights Division, including civil penalties available under title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA). For the ADA, this adjustment increases the maximum civil penalty for a first violation under title III from $55,000 to $75,000; for a subsequent violation the new maximum is $150,000. The new maximums apply only to violations occurring on or after April 28, 2014.

This Final Rule is a non-discretionary agency action made pursuant to Section 4 of the Federal Civil Penalties Adjustment Act of 1990, as amended (Adjustment Act), which mandates the Attorney General to adjust for inflation the civil penalties assessed or enforced by the Department of Justice. The amounts of the adjustment were determined according to a specific mathematical formula set forth in Section 5 of the Adjustment Act. The previous adjustment under the ADA occurred in 1999.


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## LogManNJ (Sep 29, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Just an FYI for your future assurance: About 80% of the time, a service dog's human owner will NOT have any "visual/obvious impairment." There will be literally no way a driver will be able to see or detect the actual reason that person has a need for a service dog.


Very correct, depending on where you are driving, I think the animal will have Service dog tags, and the owner sometimes needs to have the papers. I'm not sure but I think we are able to ask to see them, aren't we?


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

LogManNJ said:


> Very correct, depending on where you are driving, I think the animal will have Service dog tags, and the owner sometimes needs to have the papers. I'm not sure but I think we are able to ask to see them, aren't we?


Nope, there aren't tags for service dogs (that I'm aware of), I'm not sure about papers but people can't ask to see them if there are any.

Experts, please weigh in on this if there's more to add.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> It's so old hearing you gripe about the same bit. People don't have a problem with legitimate service dogs that are trained not to get in your seat and shit on your seat. The issue is with every tom, &%[email protected]!*, and harry with a dog calling it a service dog and expecting people to take their dog.
> 
> Quit acting like everyone doesn't like dogs. I love dogs. I will take any legitimate service dog. But dogs that clearly aren't service dogs are getting the boot.


To be fair, most dogs thats house broken will not poop or piss outside of what they are used to: grass or dirt. Dogs are smart enough to know the car is considered inside and not for pooping.

Unless They are sick, or the owner intentionlly prevented their dog from releaving themselves as they wait for the Uber, there's little chances of an accident.

Now puking is another thing. My one pup has thrown up in the car but it was on a long trip through the mountains. The twisting roads and change of elevation were a little too much. Dog puke is pretty easy to clean, atleast for my dogs.



Julescase said:


> Nope, there aren't tags for service dogs (that I'm aware of), I'm not sure about papers but people can't ask to see them if there are any.
> 
> Experts, please weigh in on this if there's more to add.


No paperwork, no tags, no registry

Two questions. Thats it. You cannot ask them to ellaborate either, unless they dont specific the trained task. If they say "health reasons" you can repeat the question "what specific task is the dog trained to perform"

It must be a specific task and is must be trained to perform that specific task.


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## Leo1983 (Jul 3, 2017)

Laws in America are just suggestions. Best kept secret.


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## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Dropking said:


> True that, and even comfort dogs are service animals. These are for peeps who cope with life a little better with a dog lounging around them.
> 
> Accepting a dirty animal into your car does not mean there are no conditions. I insist pup sit on the floor or be held. Under no condition may their paws touch my leather seats. The one woman who ignored my rule with a laugh was ejected along with fido.


COMFORT and EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ANIMALS are *NOT* service animals.

My gawd. some people need to grow a pair.

people are such babies.
"oh, it's an emotional support dog. I have stress"

lmao


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## Fishchris (Aug 31, 2016)

But wait.... I read the whole service dog notice, and it clearly stated that a driver would "not" be paid a cleanup fee for hair left by a service animal ???

Sorry if this has been addressed, but I didn't have an hour to read this rediculous long thread....


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Young woman with no visible impairment tested the Uber system with service animals.
> 
> I got her ping, then text about her asking if the service dog was okay? I asked if my small car was okay? K
> 
> ...


This law frustates me to no end. I fully support it for people who have actual disabilities, but you're not allowed to ask them for proof. Anyone can walk around with a dog, and who cares if you have allergies or are afraid of dogs due a past bite. They should just scrap the law altogether and let people have their animals with them wherever they go. Oh, wait, that's already happening.


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> There is a reason that our society is so litigious. Of course, part of it is that many of us are greedy, but it's not just the plaintiff in a lawsuit that is greedy. Corporations, government agencies, etc., learn their lessons when it costs money and when it generates bad PR.
> 
> The cop violated the Civil Rights of a disabled person (you). You did nothing about it. He will do it to other people until someone sues him and the police department he belongs to, and they retrain him because of it, or let him go.


Thanks for the advice. Read up on the law even more, stood up to a local store that violated my rights. I just got policy changed nation wide, a global retraining triggered, and a 25$ gift card & even avoided the lawyers and courts. ppl been fighting this place for a decade to! I found so many complaints online. Someone just needed to do their research, dig their feet in & stand their ground on the matter, and approach the situation properly. intimidation, harassment, retribution (the fake poo trick mentioned often in this thread) preventing the dog from doing its job, and putting the dog or disabled person in danger of medical harm are misdemeanor under local state law and can be upgraded to a felony if you cause actually harm or death to the dog or medical harm to the handler. You are also liable for hospital costs, vet costs, replacement animal costs, including full training costs, as a result of your actions and this is specifically 'value and cost to handler' and NOT lower "market value" replacement costs you may be expecting, for instance if a false bite accusation causes an animal to get put down.

unfortunately the police seem to fall under their own jurisdiction (so do jails), so I don't know what I could have done back then. It took the work of a lot of us vets and lots of help from service organisations to keep the VA from trying to write its own laws and exempt themselves from the ADA. They did however cave and update their policies to fall in line with law. They are trying to refuse admitting service dogs have medical value because they are considered medical devices and the VA doesn't want to become liable for having to pay for training and veterinary costs under laws requiring them to provide disabled veterans proper medical care. It was both funny and ludicrous how hard I had to fight to bring my service dog in to meet the doctor that prescribed it to me since I took the self training route vs a program dog (even though I train him with the assistance of the programs, and to the programs standards, which are above the standards set by law) and they are supposed to have equal protections under the law. I don't understand the legal precedence behind the "Federal land is exempt from Federal Law" argument but I'm not a lawyer, and they amended the policy to avoid taking it thru court, so its my hunch they don't want to lose this power they imagine they have.



Trump Economics said:


> This law frustates me to no end. I fully support it for people who have actual disabilities, but you're not allowed to ask them for proof. Anyone can walk around with a dog, and who cares if you have allergies or are afraid of dogs due a past bite. They should just scrap the law altogether and let people have their animals with them wherever they go. Oh, wait, that's already happening.


In some countries dogs just go everywhere and no one cares. I don't understand why there are so many anti-dog people in america honestly. Nothing is more american than a Patriot and their dog striking out to survive, travel or homestead, improve, and prosper together. "A boy/girl and his/her dog become a man/woman together" Is the quintessential american dream story. Then they meet each other, fall in love, & make a litter of babies & their dogs breed a litter of puppies together. & they live happily ever after.. until their great great grand children destroy the county ;p

And yeah the law sucks, but attempts at reform are usually pushed by for profit or high revenue large non-profits that are designed to enhance their revenue streams and massively discriminate against smaller service dog organisations, self trained dogs, people with mental disabilities, those who cannot relocate for months, and the poor. Thus they are usually shot down by the actual service dog users & the nonprofit orgs that advocate on our behalf.


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