# Uber no longer paying drivers a percentage of city base per min/per mile?!



## DMBigfoot (Oct 30, 2019)

Des Moines, Iowa here. Uber increased the base per minute and per mile charge in multiple Iowa cities on September 26, 2019. There has been no change in driver renumeration. So, as an older driver who was “grandfathered” in at 80% of city base per min/ per mile, I am now receiving less than 80%. Other cities seeing the same thing I am? This is a huge departure from the terms I signed up under...


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Not sure how things go in Iowa but it's been like this for 2-3 years in all markets from what I read on here


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## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

When you agreed to the TOS a while ago you gave up being "grandfatherered" and agreed to the base rate pay is per mile and per minute. That's it. 
Uber and Lyft now charge the Pax whatever they want and we only get mile and minute pay. 
Is been line this for a while.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

The only grandfathering was when they went from a 20% take to a 25% take. Once Upfront pricing kicked in, Uber's take began to fluctuate. If you look at the rates cards only, driver rates are 75% of the passenger rates. But the reality is that Uber and Lyft can now charge whatever they want to the passenger, and only pay us our posted rates.


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## DMBigfoot (Oct 30, 2019)

Here in Des Moines, I was paid 80% of the city base per min/per mile (Uber X) until this latest pax rate increase a month ago. New surge is also eroding my income since it arrived to the tune of about 10%


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Sup Bigfoot? In reading your post, I am gathering that Goober raised rates to passengers for both minutes and miles? Doesn't really make sense. If your saying that Goober gave higher rates to drivers, that would be a first from what I have read. Last Fall Goober readjusted ratios Upping minute pay while lowering mileage pay in most markets. The resultant net loss of income was around 25% -30% for most drivers. The other comments in this thread further explain the decoupling of customer payments and drivers fares.


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## VictorD (Apr 30, 2017)

Atom guy said:


> The only grandfathering was when they went from a 20% take to a 25% take. Once Upfront pricing kicked in, Uber's take began to fluctuate. *If you look at the rates cards only, driver rates are 75% of the passenger rates. *But the reality is that Uber and Lyft can now charge whatever they want to the passenger, and only pay us our posted rates.


Not anymore. They raised pax rates. Driver rates are now only 72%.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

VictorD said:


> Not anymore. They raised pax rates. Driver rates are now only 72%.


There is NO percentage any more. They can pay you 5% of what the pax pays if they want. There is no longer any connection between the pax and your rates.

Your rates may go down, but they'll be based on miles and minutes. The pax can be surged and you are not.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

VictorD said:


> Not anymore. They raised pax rates. Driver rates are now only 72%.


This is not correct either. Perhaps in some bubble market that time forgot this might be true, but for 99.99999999999% of drivers there is no, zero, niche, nein,zilcherroonie correlation between passenger payments and drivers earnings. You get paid by mile and minute plus base.

YTD I am at 81% of total payments because I LT the F outta my clients.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

DMBigfoot said:


> Here in Des Moines, I was paid 80% of the city base per min/per mile (Uber X) until this latest pax rate increase a month ago. New surge is also eroding my income since it arrived to the tune of about 10%


they rolled the new surge out in my market right before the 3 week Mardi Gras parade season this past February. I did not drive Mardi Gras because of it. I'm not sure what the percentage of a pay cut the new surge is but I suspect that it is more than 10%.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

My understanding is that you still get 80%, 75% or 72% of the rate card fares for your region, base, time and mileage. You may get a little extra surge based on flat rate and some adjustments they will not explain to you. This has no correlation to the user fare paid anymore. If they are not giving you the correct percentage of the stated time and mileage rates AND you opted out of arbitration (you were part of the 0.4% of drivers who opted out right?) then I would ask an attorney if they think it's breach of contract. My guess is that they are paying the correct percentage of time and mileage, just upped the upfront prices they charge.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> There is NO percentage any more. They can pay you 5% of what the pax pays if they want. There is no longer any connection between the pax and your rates.
> 
> Your rates may go down, but they'll be based on miles and minutes. The pax can be surged and you are not.


" TECHNOLOGY COMPANY "


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## DMBigfoot (Oct 30, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> My understanding is that you still get 80%, 75% or 72% of the rate card fares for your region, base, time and mileage. You may get a little extra surge based on flat rate and some adjustments they will not explain to you. This has no correlation to the user fare paid anymore. If they are not giving you the correct percentage of the stated time and mileage rates AND you opted out of arbitration (you were part of the 0.4% of drivers who opted out right?) then I would ask an attorney if they think it's breach of contract. My guess is that they are paying the correct percentage of time and mileage, just upped the upfront prices they charge.


That was my understanding as well, but it is apparently no longer true. Getting the runaround with support. Percentages are meaningless now...


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

DMBigfoot said:


> Des Moines, Iowa here. Uber increased the base per minute and per mile charge in multiple Iowa cities on September 26, 2019. There has been no change in driver renumeration. So, as an older driver who was "grandfathered" in at 80% of city base per min/ per mile, I am now receiving less than 80%. Other cities seeing the same thing I am? This is a huge departure from the terms I signed up under...


Have been driving 4 1/2 years and agreed, in writing, to all of the current terms.

No worries.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Why do people still believe they receive a percentage of the total fare?? Are there really some markets still doing that?


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## DMBigfoot (Oct 30, 2019)

Illini said:


> Why do people still believe they receive a percentage of the total fare?? Are there really some markets still doing that?


Know that is not true since upfront pricing, but is the first time that I don't receive x% of stated base per min/ per mile for my time and distance



DMBigfoot said:


> Know that is not true since upfront pricing, but is the first time that I don't receive x% of stated base per min/ per mile for my time and distance


4 years, 16,300 trips on Uber, and this is the first time...


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

DMBigfoot said:


> Des Moines, Iowa here. Uber increased the base per minute and per mile charge in multiple Iowa cities on September 26, 2019. There has been no change in driver renumeration. So, as an older driver who was "grandfathered" in at 80% of city base per min/ per mile, I am now receiving less than 80%. Other cities seeing the same thing I am? This is a huge departure from the terms I signed up under...


We gott that in Florida over a year ago. My 80% became 73%.

The terms you signed up for have been repeatedly revised.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

CTK said:


> We gott that in Florida over a year ago. My 80% became 73%.
> 
> The terms you signed up for have been repeatedly revised.


HHHHuuuhhhhhhhhhhh breath.

Your 80% did not become 73%

There is no set percentage. Do you do your books? Everyone's percentage I is different. You might get paid more per mile or minute than newer members. I am YTD at 81% This is because I understand the sliding scale of profit margin and the different contracts that the different stakeholders have with each other.


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## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

This is when longhauling is necessary to put U/L in the red (oh wait, they actually are, that's why they're decoupling driver pay from rider payment so that they can jack up them plummeting share prices!)

Pioneered by the folks over in Washington DC (https://uberpeople.net/threads/why-we-must-all-longhaul.279749/) - longhauling and shuffling are in vogue. Getting Uber to receive negative $ brings joy to their souls.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

sporadic said:


> This is when longhauling is necessary to put U/L in the red (oh wait, they actually are, that's why they're decoupling driver pay from rider payment so that they can jack up them plummeting share prices!)
> 
> Pioneered by the folks over in Washington DC (https://uberpeople.net/threads/why-we-must-all-longhaul.279749/) - longhauling and shuffling are in vogue. Getting Uber to receive negative $ brings joy to their souls.


Goober and Gryft lose money on at least three of my rides a day! It all part of how I take 81% of my fares on average.

_Longhaulin!_


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## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Goober and Gryft lose money on at least three of my rides a day! It all part of how I take 81% of my fares on average.
> 
> _Longhaulin!_


And in future, they'll decouple surge too. Oh wait. They already are doing that... Charge the rider a 2.5x multiplier and give the driver a lame-duck +$5. Or even better, put a grey area to indicate higher demand, charge the surge, and give the driver the base rates.


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## Riley3262019 (Mar 26, 2019)

sporadic said:


> And in future, they'll decouple surge too. Oh wait. They already are doing that... Charge the rider a 2.5x multiplier and give the driver a lame-duck +$5. Or even better, put a grey area to indicate higher demand, charge the surge, and give the driver the base rates.


So true.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Read the last TOS you signed. They removed our commission aspect two and a half years ago. Now the commission might have still equaled out so what you thought it should have been but if you read the latest TOS, there is no percentage mentioned. Only a flat minute and mile rate


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

DMBigfoot said:


> Know that is not true since upfront pricing, but is the first time that I don't receive x% of stated base per min/ per mile for my time and distance
> 
> 4 years, 16,300 trips on Uber, and this is the first time...


You mean first time* you noticed *it.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> HHHHuuuhhhhhhhhhhh breath.
> 
> Your 80% did not become 73%
> 
> There is no set percentage. Do you do your books? Everyone's percentage I is different. You might get paid more per mile or minute than newer members. I am YTD at 81% This is because I understand the sliding scale of profit margin and the different contracts that the different stakeholders have with each other.


Incorrect. While not widely used with upfront pricing, Uber still maintains a per mile/per minute rate for each market. In the event a destination is changed mid-trip and the upfront price no longer applies, the fare reverts to actual miles & minutes. Additionally, the rider rates are what the driver rates are based on - our per mile & per minute is a percentage of the market's per mile & per minute rates for riders.

Upfront pricing is based - often very loosely - on rider per mile/ per minute rates. When Uber raises these, as the OP mentioned in his market, it simply means they'll charge riders more. The issue here is that driver rates are based on rider rates but the driver sees no increase, effectively lowering the driver's percentage.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

CTK said:


> Additionally, the rider rates are what the driver rates are based on - our per mile & per minute is a percentage of the market's per mile & per minute rates for riders.


Well if this was true, our rates would go up when passenger rates went up . . . buuuut they don't



CTK said:


> The issue here is that driver rates are based on rider rates but the driver sees no increase


Therefore our rates are not based on passenger rates


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

In other news, strange buildings that are in the shape of a triangle and appear to be built out of stones have been discovered in Egypt. They are being referred to as Pyramids. A complete investigation is pending.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> Well if this was true, our rates would go up when passenger rates went up . . . buuuut they don't
> 
> Therefore our rates are not based on passenger rates


Read it again, carefully. Our pay is absolutely *not* based on rider's fares. And it is true that mile/ minute rates are used for riders only under special circumstances. However, mile/minute rates for riders do exist in each market, and drivers' mile/ minute rates are based on those.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

CTK said:


> Read it again, carefully. Our pay is absolutely *not* based on rider's fares. And it is true that mile/ minute rates are used for riders only under special circumstances. However, mile/minute rates for riders do exist in each market, and drivers' mile/ minute rates are based on those.


Based on them is a long walk. One you might want to make, but no one else here will do. There is no percentage. NONE.

Your argument is akin to saying

Amos's responses are based on who he is quoting. YES they are but no they are not.

The companies charge what they think they can get away with, wholly exclusionary from what they think drivers will accept as payment. You were close to right 3 years ago.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Based on them is a long walk. One you might want to make, but no one else here will do. There is no percentage. NONE.
> 
> Your argument is akin to saying
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you. And I was exactly right 3 years ago, just as I'm right now.

Your issue is either 1) you didn't read my original post, or 2) reading comprehension isn't your thing.

Either way, I'm done caring whether or not you get it.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

CTK said:


> I don't disagree with you. And I was exactly right 3 years ago, just as I'm right now.
> 
> Your issue is either 1) you didn't read my original post, or 2) reading comprehension isn't your thing.
> 
> Either way, I'm done caring whether or not you get it.


As am I. Your point is as wrong as every other person who read it thinks it is

Or at least as fallacious.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

I can assure you, neither company is paying a percentage to any driver. My wife hasn't been allowed to drive since July for medical reasons, so we've been using U/L multiple times per week. On one occasion, she had to take a bus part way home, then take Lyft the rest of the way. Lyft charged us $9.65 for a trip that paid the driver $4.00. This morning, she took Lyft from home to physical therapy, we know the driver who picked her up, Lyft charged us $16.80 for the trip, I tipped him $3.00 on the app, for a total charge of $19.80. Wife called me later to say it was one of our neighbors that gave her the ride, I texted him to see what he made, $9.70 + tip., 57% payment.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> I can assure you, neither company is paying a percentage to any driver. My wife hasn't been allowed to drive since July for medical reasons, so we've been using U/L multiple times per week. On one occasion, she had to take a bus part way home, then take Lyft the rest of the way. Lyft charged us $9.65 for a trip that paid the driver $4.00. This morning, she took Lyft from home to physical therapy, we know the driver who picked her up, Lyft charged us $16.80 for the trip, I tipped him $3.00 on the app, for a total charge of $19.80. Wife called me later to say it was one of our neighbors that gave her the ride, I texted him to see what he made, $9.70 + tip., 57% payment.


Nobody is saying we get a set percentage of the fare. We don't, and by now we all know that. Your examples have nothing to do with this conversation.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

CTK said:


> Nobody is saying we get a set percentage of the fare. We don't, and by now we all know that. Your examples have nothing to do with this conversation.


reading comprehension, not your strong suit either, read your own comments to someone else, and as such, my examples reinforce the point that we are not on percentage.



CTK said:


> Read it again, carefully. Our pay is absolutely *not* based on rider's fares. And it is true that mile/ minute rates are used for riders only under special circumstances. However, mile/minute rates for riders do exist in each market, and drivers' mile/ minute rates are based on those.


Um, wait, our pay is not based on rider fares, then you contradict that, which is it? Also, our minute/mile rates are not tied at all to rider minute/mile rates, if they were, they would adjust as up/down as U/L adjust rider minute/mile rates. I have a neighbor who takes Lyft over a dozen times per week to/from various airports and meetings. On every trip, he demands a full breakdown from Lyft of all charges. In the Denver market, he is charged between $1.00 and $1.15 per mile according to them, driver pay in Denver is and has been $0.64 per mile and does not vary.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> reading comprehension, not your strong suit either, read your own comments to someone else, and as such, my examples reinforce the point that we are not on percentage.
> 
> Um, wait, our pay is not based on rider fares, then you contradict that, which is it? Also, our minute/mile rates are not tied at all to rider minute/mile rates, if they were, they would adjust as up/down as U/L adjust rider minute/mile rates. I have a neighbor who takes Lyft over a dozen times per week to/from various airports and meetings. On every trip, he demands a full breakdown from Lyft of all charges. In the Denver market, he is charged between $1.00 and $1.15 per mile according to them, driver pay in Denver is and has been $0.64 per mile and does not vary.


Again, you're talking apples to my oranges. Clearly, clearly you're never going to get this. And guess what? I'm done caring.

Peace. Uber on.


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## VictorD (Apr 30, 2017)

CTK said:


> Nobody is saying we get a set percentage of the fare. We don't, and by now we all know that. Your examples have nothing to do with this conversation.


Actually, you _do, _and I'm going to explain how, so *read slowly and then read again even slower *so that it sinks in and you learn something for once.

As laws in every jurisdiction require transportation providers to provide full disclosure to customers exactly how much and for what they are being charged, transportation providers are required to set a rate schedule for how their customers will be charged. Some use a flat fee schedule while others charge time/distance rates. As Uber/Lyft provide services that are directly competitive to taxi services these companies offer their services on set time/distance rates in their respective markets. When the companies first implemented the upfront pricing scheme, driver compensation rates in each market were set at - depending under when you started driving - either 80%, or 75% of not the *fare*, but the *market rates *in each market. However, presently, the companies have increased their share by raising service rates, thus lowering the drivers' share of those *rates* to either 77% or 72%.

Now, obviously, anyone with a first-grade education would understand this after the first 30 times it's explained to them, but this is a forum full of former fast food All-stars, so here we are again for the 600th time this month *having to explain something that hasn't applied in over 2½ years.*


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

DMBigfoot said:


> Des Moines, Iowa here. Uber increased the base per minute and per mile charge in multiple Iowa cities on September 26, 2019. There has been no change in driver renumeration. So, as an older driver who was "grandfathered" in at 80% of city base per min/ per mile, I am now receiving less than 80%. Other cities seeing the same thing I am? This is a huge departure from the terms I signed up under...


There hasn't been a pay structure of percentage for a while. In my market, I am one of the 80/20, so I get 6 cents more a mile than the newbs.

Been years since Uber pays miles and time.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

VictorD said:


> Actually, you _do, _and I'm going to explain how, so *read slowly and then read again even slower *so that it sinks in and you learn something for once.
> 
> As laws in every jurisdiction require transportation providers to provide full disclosure to customers exactly how much and for what they are being charged, transportation providers are required to set a rate schedule for how their customers will be charged. Some use a flat fee schedule while others charge time/distance rates. As Uber/Lyft provide services that are directly competitive to taxi services these companies offer their services on set time/distance rates in their respective markets. When the companies first implemented the upfront pricing scheme, driver compensation rates in each market were set at - depending under when you started driving - either 80%, or 75% of not the *fare*, but the *market rates *in each market. However, presently, the companies have increased their share by raising service rates, thus lowering the drivers' share of those *rates* to either 77% or 72%.
> 
> Now, obviously, anyone with a first-grade education would understand this after the first 30 times it's explained to them, but this is a forum full of former fast food All-stars, so here we are again for the 600th time this month *having to explain something that hasn't applied in over 2½ years.*


Unless they specifically regulate what is being charged, most jurisdictions do not require full disclosure of what is being charged. The trips my wife has been taking on Lyft and Uber lately are just a general receipt, unless I demand a breakdown, there's no disclosure. I checked with the state to see what they require, a basic receipt is all.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> Unless they specifically regulate what is being charged, most jurisdictions do not require full disclosure of what is being charged. The trips my wife has been taking on Lyft and Uber lately are just a general receipt, unless I demand a breakdown, there's no disclosure. I checked with the state to see what they require, a basic receipt is all.


Oh oh oh did you ask what is required to be given to the driver??


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## Smell My Finger (Jun 11, 2019)

Welcome to the .62 per mile, 12 per minute club....


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## sidehustle0403 (Nov 27, 2018)

why are any of you still driving? You are paying uber to drive on most of the rides you give. What are you going to do when the bottom really drops out and they just start paying you in points redeemable for free rides? This isn’t a job. Get out of it, now. It’s only going to get worse.

...and I seem to remember uber referencing a take rate as a percentage of the fare in their prospectus prior to the IPO. Implying that your rates scale with what the passenger paid. That’s not true, but it says it is in their document.

Honestly, if it gets much worse for the snacked asses who bought that stock, it seems like they’d be scouring that thing for lies like that one to sue.


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## Skinnyteensforlife (Aug 21, 2019)

I’m 20% and get 0.64 a mile $2.80 min fares in Los Angeles, ppl at 25% get .60c a joke and I think $2.60 min


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

In my market the only time Uber is cheaper as a rider is if they offer rider discounts, Using lyft is cheaper and I noticed Uber rates have increased for riders, Since it’s upfront pricing Uber make $20 and the driver get $8 on my trips.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DMBigfoot said:


> That was my understanding as well, but it is apparently no longer true. Getting the runaround with support. Percentages are meaningless now...


The only part where percentages count is that if you were grandfathered in at a higher % (when it WAS a %) you get a higher rate per mile and minute. That's it. It no longer is tied to the pax.



Illini said:


> Why do people still believe they receive a percentage of the total fare?? Are there really some markets still doing that?


Because they're stupid. I can think of no other reason.


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