# Grubhub for Drivers -- We’re improving your Grubhub pay



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Just got this little message via email.

Hey ,

Starting Tuesday, June 18, 2019, we're improving how you're paid for your efforts on every Grubhub order. These changes are based on the feedback we've received from thousands of drivers and on the results of a pilot rolled out in select markets earlier this year.

Just like before, you'll still keep 100% of your tips, and your per-order earnings will continue to be determined independently and separately from the tips you receive. We remain committed to transparency and will still show the total amount you'll earn before you accept any order.

While these elements of your pay will remain the same, *your total order earnings will now be determined based on time and mileage, in addition to the full tip from the diner.*

*Time* will be determined as the estimated total time from accepting to dropping off an order, including estimated time spent driving and waiting at the restaurant.
*Mileage* will be determined as the estimated total mileage from your location when you accept the offer, to the restaurant, and then to the drop-off location, based on our calculation of the most efficient route (no longer just a straight line from the restaurant to the diner).
Rates for time and mileage pay will vary by market, and your pay summary will show the breakdown for both of these components. If your market offers the Grubhub hourly minimum, you'll still earn it, as long as you meet the requirements listed in your pay terms.

Finally, your pay terms are now in the app through the "Help" menu. Moving forward, we'll notify you when there is a change via an in-app alert. By continuing to use the Grubhub for Drivers app, you're agreeing to these latest pay terms and conditions.

Please contact your Driver Specialist if you have any questions.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Market?

From what I've seen, this typically reduces the GH payouts in many cases to below the current flat rate+direct line mileage. (E.g., if you previously earned $4.00 + $0.50/mile; the delivery pay may now be something like $3.73.) Sadly, changes like this are likely inevitable as there are so many players in 3rd party food delivery.

Also, super hard to read that as centered text, lol.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

I'm in Pittsburgh, but the wording seems to indicate this will be either nationwide or at least in multiple markets.

Currently, we're at $4.75 + $0.50/mile + tips.

$11/hour guarantee with 90% AR

I have not received an updated Partner Pay Rate email to see if any of that changes for better or worse. I'm guessing that will come before Tuesday.

We'll see how it goes.

Sorry about the format. I edited the post to eliminate that. It didn't center until I published.


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## 1776abe (Apr 8, 2019)

How u figure it will be worse. Email says we are getting paid for mileage for total trip.. that's TO the restaurant and then TO the customer. Right now it's restaurant to customer only. People have been complaining about that on this board constantly


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

1776abe said:


> How u figure it will be worse. Email says we are getting paid for mileage for total trip.. that's TO the restaurant and then TO the customer. Right now it's restaurant to customer only. People have been complaining about that on this board constantly


They could reduce the base bay, i.e. where I'm at it could drop from $4.75 to $4.25 or something along those lines.

I actually haven't done GH in over a month because they aren't in the area I want to work. It also has been more and more difficult to get blocks here when I check.

If/when I receive the email update with new payrates for my market, I'll post it.

Until then, opinions are mostly speculation.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Sounds good to me. Guess we'll see what happens.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

WAHN said:


> They could reduce the base bay, i.e. where I'm at it could drop from $4.75 to $4.25 or something along those lines.


From what you posted, it doesn't sound like there is going to be any base pay. Just time and mileage. Make no mistake.....whenever one of these delivery app companies changes the pay structure, the don't do it with the intent of paying the drivers _more_.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> From what you posted, it doesn't sound like there is going to be any base pay. Just time and mileage. Make no mistake.....whenever one of these delivery app companies changes the pay structure, the don't do it with the intent of paying the drivers _more_.


Yep, looks like the per order rate will be based on the time and mileage.

While I read the email, I didn't think to go to the "Help" section on the app to see if updated terms were there.

Definitely agree on when app(or any) companies make changes, it's rarely to the benefit of the worker.

We'll have to see how it works out.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

1776abe said:


> How u figure it will be worse. Email says we are getting paid for mileage for total trip.. that's TO the restaurant and then TO the customer. Right now it's restaurant to customer only. People have been complaining about that on this board constantly


Restaurant to customer "as crow flies." Actually mileage, even if calculated by "estimated best route" will be better.

As will getting paid from acceptance to delivery. More reinforcement to sit on my butt at home until I get my first offer. Today it was 3 miles from my house to the TB.

Damn, if I'd have known this, I wouldn't have declined my first offer, which was to a TB 15 miles away as "Too Far Away."

Makes me wonder if that offer was a trial ballon.

ETA: It looks like I'm still getting paid the old way: $3.50 + Crow fly + tip. 








I just a TB a few miles away. I'm going to track it to see if it's time+mileage from my current location vs restaurant-->customer.

Just checked and I got no such email, so I guess it hasn't rolled out in my market yet.

Well, that was a huge mistake! The TB I usually refuse to accept, for good reason.

Actual miles: 6.8
Actual time: 33 min.

Paltry pay:









I'm going to email my driver rep and ask her when the new TOS rolls out here.

Doh!

Reading is Fundamental!

Just re-read the OP and it takes affect 6/18.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

They would have to be really skimpy on the time and mileage rates to make that TB pay less. 

Given that GH is allegedly the only major player actually making a profit, it will be interesting to see how it goes.

I might even have to schedule some shifts this week to see what's up. If there are any left.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

This is not yet in every market. It hasn't reached my region in Dallas TX yet.

Someone posted an official-looking example of the new pay model in the reddit sub.

Looks to remove the base delivery pay and replace it with:

$0.22/mile (straight line from YOU to restaurant).
$0.22/mile (straight line restaurant to customer location).
$0.13/minute (based on upfront estimate of total job time; e.g., 30 minutes).

I forsee a lot of "estimated" times becoming 20 minutes ($2.60). This explains some of the super low paying screenshots I've seen, with total jobs paying <$3.25.


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## 1776abe (Apr 8, 2019)

Are they going to do all the calculations before sending the offer to u.

I guess as long as the number is high enough for me I will accept but I'm not going to wait till after the trip for them to tell me what it is


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

andaas said:


> This is not yet in every market. It hasn't reached my region in Dallas TX yet.
> 
> Someone posted an official-looking example of the new pay model in the reddit sub.
> 
> ...


Mileage and minutes rates will vary per market.

As someone mentioned in the reddit thread, probably trying to even out things a little more.

In theory, at the example rates, the TB order dlearl476 posted above would have paid about double.

We shall see..



1776abe said:


> Are they going to do all the calculations before sending the offer to u.
> 
> I guess as long as the number is high enough for me I will accept but I'm not going to wait till after the trip for them to tell me what it is


That's my understanding. It will still show you the offer amount.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

andaas said:


> $0.22/mile (straight line from YOU to restaurant).
> $0.22/mile (straight line restaurant to customer location).
> $0.13/minute (based on upfront estimate of total job time; e.g., 30 minutes).


Lets crunch some numbers. I'll start with the mileage component of pay. First, lets assign some variables.

A = straight line distance from YOU to restaurant
B = straight line distance from restaurant to customer location
y = current mileage rate ($0.50/mile for me in my market right now)
x = new mileage rate ($0.22/mile from what you posted, will vary by market)

Your mileage pay under the old pay model is:
OLD_PAY = B*y

Your mileage pay under the new pay model is:
NEW_PAY = A*x + B*x = (A+B)*x

So in order to come out ahead for mileage pay, you have to have....

(A+B)*x > B*y (In words, new pay is greater than old pay.)

Do a little algebra, and you get....

A > [(y/x)-1]*B

So (y/x)-1 is the key factor. In order to come out ahead on mileage pay, the distance to the restaurant has to be greater than the distance to the customer by a factor of (y/x)-1.

If I plug in y=0.50 and x=0.22, I get (y/x)-1 = 1.27.

What this means is that if the distance to the restaurant is greater than 1.27 times the distance to the customer, then I come out ahead in terms of mileage pay with the new pay model. If it is not, then I would have been better off with the old pay model.

This is just for the mileage component. I'll do the other component later. I'm hungry, and I want lunch.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> Lets crunch some numbers. I'll start with the mileage component of pay. First, lets assign some variables.
> 
> A = straight line distance from YOU to restaurant
> B = straight line distance from restaurant to customer location
> ...


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## Toby2 (Jun 16, 2018)

Looks like I’ll be resetting navigation to shortest distance. Plus that should mean a little more time.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

andaas said:


> $0.13/minute (based on upfront estimate of total job time; e.g., 30 minutes).
> 
> I forsee a lot of "estimated" times becoming 20 minutes ($2.60). This explains some of the super low paying screenshots I've seen, with total jobs paying <$3.25.


The time component is easier since it replaces the existing flat delivery fee. Lets assign variables.

z = new time rate ($0.13/minute from your post, will vary by market)
C = old flat rate ($4.50 for me in my market, varies by market)
T = estimated delivery time

In order to come out ahead, you have to have...

z*T > C

T > C/z

So plugging in the rates for my market, I get...

T > 4.50/0.13 = 34.6 minutes

So in order to come out ahead for the time pay component, the estimated delivery time has to be greater than 34.6 minutes. Otherwise, I would have been better off with the existing flat rate.

My guess are that the estimated delivery times are going to end up being significantly less than the realistic delivery times, and this will end up being a loss.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Meh. Doesn't really matter if you still follow your personal delivery rate minimum. That info still shows in app. The new payscale debuted in my market and I still declined low paying deliveries.


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## 1776abe (Apr 8, 2019)

Quack, bottom line is gas costs. If average trip is 9 miles total from ping to customer that is .22 times 9 ...2.00earned. But gas on a 27 mpg car is about 1.00 at 3 a gallon.u actually earned 1.00 and have to make it up on time and tips wages. That's different for every person.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

andaas said:


> $0.22/mile (straight line from YOU to restaurant).
> $0.22/mile (straight line restaurant to customer location).
> $0.13/minute (based on upfront estimate of total job time; e.g., 30 minutes).


From the email posted in the OP:

"Mileage will be determined as the estimated total mileage from your location when you accept the offer, to the restaurant, and then to the drop-off location, based on our calculation of the most efficient route (no longer just a straight line from the restaurant to the diner)."


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

dlearl476 said:


> From the email posted in the OP:
> 
> "Mileage will be determined as the estimated total mileage from your location when you accept the offer, to the restaurant, and then to the drop-off location, based on our calculation of the most efficient route (no longer just a straight line from the restaurant to the diner)."


Well that's a plus. Good catch.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

dlearl476 said:


> "...based on our calculation of the most efficient route (no longer just a straight line from the restaurant to the diner)."


I completely missed that part. I assumed it was still going to be as the crow flies. That makes my calculations garbage. Estimated route mileage is definitely better for the driver than as-the-crow-flies mileage (all other things being equal), but it also makes it much more difficult to tell whether you came out ahead or behind due to the rate change. There's no quick and easy formula that will tell you.



Woohaa said:


> Meh. Doesn't really matter if you still follow your personal delivery rate minimum. That info still shows in app. The new payscale debuted in my market and I still declined low paying deliveries.


Yep, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is bottom line. Since I know the delivery pay before I accept the delivery, I don't really care how it is calculated as long as it is enough to make the delivery worth doing.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Just checked. I haven't got the said email. I may log in tomorrow and accept an offer just to see if it's happening in my market.


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## Goongpad77 (Dec 6, 2017)

1776abe said:


> How u figure it will be worse. Email says we are getting paid for mileage for total trip.. that's TO the restaurant and then TO the customer. Right now it's restaurant to customer only. People have been complaining about that on this board constantly


It's something like $.20 a mile. If you start doing the math you got paid better with the old system. It's a pay cut unfortunately


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

1776abe said:


> How u figure it will be worse. Email says we are getting paid for mileage for total trip.. that's TO the restaurant and then TO the customer. Right now it's restaurant to customer only. People have been complaining about that on this board constantly


Well, it can/could be worse if the time/distance equation doesn't match the old standard delivery. In my market it was $3.50/delivery + CF miles. My WAG is that will come into play sometimes but if my past offers/deliveries have been any indication, it will be a big increase. Especially if they're going to be paying time/mileage TO the pickup. UE is the service that's notorious for short deliveries in my experience.



Goongpad77 said:


> It's something like $.20 a mile. If you start doing the math you got paid better with the old system. It's a pay cut unfortunately


It will all depend on what the rate us in each market. Just guessing right now, based on the distance involved in my average GH delivery, I think it's going to be a wash.

I agree with Abe, though. It somewhat heartening to think they responded to one of the most common complaints about their platform. Even if they did it to save money. ?


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## Uber20/20 (Jul 27, 2017)

"Improving your pay" means more or better pay than now? So mathematically is it better or not? I'm getting headache by looking at math figures


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## dryverjohn (Jun 3, 2018)

In my market this would be too expensive for GH, we have a 30 mile delivery range, up and down the interstate and will have to drive sometimes up to 40 miles after accepting an order. I think we'll be at $15 an hour Guarantee for a while longer.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Uber20/20 said:


> "Improving your pay" means more or better pay than now? So mathematically is it better or not? I'm getting headache by looking at math figures


With any company that works with independent contractors, "improving your pay" really means "paying you less".


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

dlearl476 said:


> Just checked. I haven't got the said email. I may log in tomorrow and accept an offer just to see if it's happening in my market.


Checked again this morning, still no email. Logged on to see what's up and got this: 









So still going on the old TOS. Anyone else either confirm or deny the change has happened? After the debacle with the update to the Apple store, I can understand why they might want to roll it out piecemeal, but I'm too internet illiterate to understand how they could update the app on a market by market basis.

ETA: I was at home when I got this offer, but I forgot to check time/mileage. My best guesstimate is that, at .22/mile and whatever time coefficient they use, I came out ahead with the $3.50 + Mileage equation.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

GH Support Team:

_We take driver feedback very seriously and want you to know we listen to you. Based on you telling us you are making too much money many we have a new lower pay plan. Thanks for all you do and keep those suggestions coming!_


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## rascal53 (Mar 29, 2017)

Whatever the math I'm sure it works out in favor of Grubhub, Inc.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

LOL, well I tried to give it a test run this morning. The only shift available was 7:30-9:30.

Apparently no breakfast eaters where I was at, not a single ping.

This would be the first time I will have ever qualified for the $11/hour minimum wage here. I generally don't work if it's gonna be that slow.

Will have to see if I can plug myself in at a busier time later this week.


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## adriver (May 5, 2018)

Just did first delivery on new pay system and earned $7.06.

On old system would have earned around $9.33.

Base pay came to $3.01 with a $4.05 tip. Base pay was floored at $4 + mileage until yesterday.

$2.27 pay cut. That's a significant amount.



Woohaa said:


> Meh. Doesn't really matter if you still follow your personal delivery rate minimum. That info still shows in app. The new payscale debuted in my market and I still declined low paying deliveries.


Yes except there may be less offers to accept at good rates, tips will have to be higher to boost the offers


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

dlearl476 said:


> After the debacle with the update to the Apple store, I can understand why they might want to roll it out piecemeal, but I'm too internet illiterate to understand how they could update the app on a market by market basis.


Depending on how they coded the app, it might not even require an app update to implement. The app doesn't calculate your delivery pay. That is done on a GrubHub server somewhere. The server sends that data to your phone, and the app just displays the information. So depending on how the data is sent to your phone, it might not be necessary to update the app to implement the new pay structure. It would definitely be possible to roll it out on a market-by-market basis. I'm sure the app always tells the server what its version is so that the server sends data to it in the correct format.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

WAHN said:


> LOL, well I tried to give it a test run this morning. The only shift available was 7:30-9:30.
> 
> Apparently no breakfast eaters where I was at, not a single ping.
> 
> ...


Can't "like." Oh well


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## rascal53 (Mar 29, 2017)

adriver said:


> Just did first delivery on new pay system and earned $7.06.
> 
> On old system would have earned around $9.33.
> 
> ...


 wait... this can't be right. They said they were "improving" our pay


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## KR23 (May 29, 2017)

Didn’t notice better pay for picking up orders that are further away as the email says it would. Bad day I know. I took some ? orders just so I can improve my acceptance rate which in turn hurt my potential earnings.


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## Trained_Hindu (Aug 27, 2018)

Woohaa said:


> Meh. Doesn't really matter if you still follow your personal delivery rate minimum. That info still shows in app. The new payscale debuted in my market and I still declined low paying deliveries.


How does it not matter. I haven't tested the new pay model, but in Queens NYC, it use to be $3 base + mileage.

Even tho our base pay was horrible, now with the new updated pay model, its even more trashier. GH will just find ways to make estimated times way lower than anticipated, and since we don't drive too many miles in NYC, the flat rate on mileage is only at .22 a mile.

so a short 2 to 3 mile delivery in total from driving to restaurant to customer house and about a 10 min wait time will only pay $1.90 to $2.40.

That's an effective 1 dollar loss per delivery , and now stacked orders are garbage and not worth taking unless there's high tips.

Then in a couple years, we'll be back to sub uber slave wages. "going by the least that you'll deliver" will only cut it if customer's are tipping high. And we know there's a shit ton of people from Mon to Thursdays only tipping 3 to 5 dollars.


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## adriver (May 5, 2018)

rascal53 said:


> wait... this can't be right. They said they were "improving" our pay
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Yes the improvements are astounding, I've never made so much before this decrease in pay
> ...


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## rascal53 (Mar 29, 2017)

Nice of them to pay us for driving to the restaurant now! (Too bad they cut the mileage rate from .53 to .22)
They are also gonna pay us for our time! Awesome! (Too bad they are eliminating the delivery fee)
They are improving our pay! (For them)

It's funny they have the nerve to make it seem like our pay is going up when in fact it is the exact opposite.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

WAHN said:


> Starting Tuesday, June 18, 2019, we're improving how you're paid for your efforts on every Grubhub order. These changes are based on the feedback we've received from thousands of drivers and on the results of a pilot rolled out in select markets earlier this year.
> 
> *Just like before, you'll still keep 100% of your tips.....*


The generosity is just mind boggling, isn't it?

.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

First time I logged in since Monday. Still on the old pay structure.

Spaced out the block drop on Thursday. Logged in a 10:52 and there was exactly ONE 90 minute block left.

Just as well, Saturday night and I've had two offers in 3 hours. Thankfully, one was a $15 PF Chaings Delivery.

I'll be getting a minimum supplement tonight. Saturday friggin night. GH has officially jumped the shark.

ETA: Thanks for the $25 "tip," GH!


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## Toby2 (Jun 16, 2018)

Got the new payout email today. I compared the two. On a nice smooth 15-20 minute delivery you lose $. 25-30 minute long waits or a bit longer distance you’ll make out a little better. Not sure if that’s any better because overall it’s less deliveries on anything longer. Probably a disguised pay cut.


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## Goongpad77 (Dec 6, 2017)

Ad-on’s are a huge cut.. I had an ad on the other day that the base delivery pay was a $1.80.. time estimate and milage pay combined!

With the old pay model I would’ve received the base $3.25 plus the “crows fly milage” ... from now on one delivery at a time!

I’m not getting to the pickup and having them add on a new order that was just placed right when the original order is ready to pick up! Just to sit there and wait and make a good tip offer cold, soggy and late.. or have to go deliver the first one and double back for the add on and get paid $3-5 less..

If a restaurant is busy and they add an order on right when you’re arriving to the pick up for the first one it can easily be a 30 minute wait for the next order!

GH has lost its mind. They don’t understand good service is what ensures building good clientele.. They will pay dearly for cutting corners and skimping drivers!

SCREW THAT!


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Man. Don’t know what was up today, but it was almost like old times. $20/hr today. Got two stacked orders. (All at TB, but they were $8-$10/ea) Probably 8 times got an offer before I’d dropped my current delivery off. 

Lots of long(er) deliveries, but with the new pay structure, it paid off today. 

Oh, and I got to tell a BK mgr, “I deliver food, I don’t make it” when he handed me two cups and gestured at the coke machine. Next order I picked up there, Johnny on the spot with the Coke. :biggrin:


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