# So... fare setting because of PASSING 22?



## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..

*(seeing your trip ahead of time, and most important..)

SETTING YOUR OWN FAIR.

now I *trust* uber so much, and I KNOW they would NEVER **** drivers over,....

But im curious what YOU think.

22 passes. Will we still have these wonderful perks?

Edit:

Lyft still hasn't changed their model one bit.

Just...wow.

Im at the point where I get MAD if I don't get at LEAST a 2x fare.

I took a 1x fare the other day, vallejo to Santa rosa. I was PISSED it was *only* 45 to 50 bucks.

But thats 'standard'...for lyft.

I think the multiplier is spoiled this fox here.

If it goes back to 'the old days'...I swear to GOD ill leave California and go live with my family in Florida.

Just saying.



*(super edit)...

Me and the bunny have had our ups and downs.

Shes the only REAL reason im still here.

California is going to hell.

So ...im almost out folks, either way...


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Have lube and condoms ready is all I can say.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Setting rates, seeing trip details in advance of accepting, and being free from coercion and penalties for refusing trips are not “perks.” These things are requirements if you wish to be considered an independent contractor. Control is the issue. Ride share drivers are misclassified employees. Vote NO on Prop 22 if you want to see the gig app companies actually fix their flawed business model.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Greenfox said:


> California is going to hell.


_Going_ to?????....
California entered those gates long ago and is deep in the bowels with no chance of making a U-turn.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

no these perks will stay if prop 22 passes. It would be bad PR and it would make uber more likely for the courts to rule against them.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

stuber said:


> Setting rates, seeing trip details in advance of accepting, and being free from coercion and penalties for refusing trips are not "perks." These things are requirements if you wish to be considered an independent contractor. Control is the issue. Ride share drivers are misclassified employees. Vote NO on Prop 22 if you want to see the gig app companies actually fix their flawed business model.


So you just said what an independent contractor should have, Uber has all those things you listed and you still don't think it's right? What else are you thinking they should have?


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

dnlbaboof said:


> no these perks will stay if prop 22 passes. It would be bad PR and it would make uber more likely for the courts to rule against them.


^^^ This

Even if 22 passes, the Supreme Court of California can kill it just like they did Prop 8, and I suspect they will.

Uber would then try to appeal to the SCOTUS, but they likely wouldn't accept the appeal on the grounds that it's a states rights issue.



Greenfox said:


> Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..


Came out of your hidey-hole, Mr. Fox?










That would be a pretty brash move on their part. I doubt they would do that as long as they are in litigation mode with the state. They don't want to pull out of California if they can avoid it, but they can survive without it.


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> _Going_ to?????....
> California entered those gates long ago and is deep in the bowels with no chance of making a U-turn.


Yeah it is absolutely &#128175; flipping terrible here right now. When I CAME to cali a SHORT ten years ago, believe it or not, things were... 'ok'...

Decent.
Lukewarm.

Now?

....I could tell you some uber stories about 4th of July in Oakland but you probably wouldn't believe any of it..


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> So you just said what an independent contractor should have, Uber has all those things you listed and you still don't think it's right? What else are you thinking they should have?


Independent it mean independent find out what mean independent . contractor .. Uber treat drivers 100%as employee exempt going online and of .. they take interested from drivers fare at their preference .


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> ^^^ This
> 
> Even if 22 passes, the Supreme Court of California can kill it just like they did Prop 8, and I suspect they will.
> 
> ...


Well rideshare professor disagrees, so that's why I came 'out of my hole'...during this PLANNED organized partial shutdown of the u.s. economy *(source: world economic forum website) over a disease that has a survival rate *(if it's even real) of 99.987% **(source: cdc.gov)

Seems i was at least 90 to 95% right, but seeing everyone wear their ritualistic shame muzzles has definitely kept me in hiding... people are scary!


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

NicFit said:


> So you just said what an independent contractor should have, Uber has all those things you listed and you still don't think it's right? What else are you thinking they should have?


It's a bigger issue than California. And its bigger than just ride share. The gig app companies are literally re-writing labor laws for their own benefit.

The functionalities I listed have not been implemented in other states, as far as I know (but who knows what they're up to elsewhere?). Yes, these experiments in California with drivers bidding, destination info, right of refusal, etc. are great improvements, but drivers in California will lose these advantages if Prop 22 succeeds.

A NO vote is the best choice.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Why would uber keep those perks?

Why don’t they push them nation wide?

Why are they just California?


Because they hate us. They know what they are doing and it’s all part of the dog and pony show for prop 22.


Nothing more nothing less, once prop 22 comes into play all of those things and more can go right out the window.


I’m fact as soon as prop 22 comes into effect they can cut rates to 26c a minute 30c a mile and turn off surge forever and there’s nothing the gov can do about it because that’s what the law says:


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Independent it mean independent find out what mean independent . contractor .. Uber treat drivers 100%as employee exempt going online and of .. they take interested from drivers fare at their preference .


Tell me what you think that we need more to say we are independent contractors. I can set my own rate, free to choose my fare, get the ride info, can choose who at work for at any given time without notice. I can do on job and call it a day, I can do 20 jobs and call it a day, work 12 hour shifts, work one hour shifts, work 14 days in a row, work one day and then take 13 days off, what the hell more do you think there is about being an independent contractor that's missing? What??? Name one thing that's missing, just one


stuber said:


> It's a bigger issue than California. And its bigger than just ride share. The gig app companies are literally re-writing labor laws for their own benefit.
> 
> The functionalities I listed have not been implemented in other states, as far as I know (but who knows what they're up to elsewhere?). Yes, these experiments in California with drivers bidding, destination info, right of refusal, etc. are great improvements, but drivers in California will lose these advantages if Prop 22 succeeds.
> 
> A NO vote is the best choice.


No is the choice for being a socialist wage slave, this is just hating on innovation. oMG someone came up with something new, it's wrong so we must kill it, this is typical liberal thinking and it's what's wrong with all of you haters, you want to be a socialist wage slave then go do something else and leave what I have the @@@@ alone


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

Greenfox said:


> Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..
> 
> *(seeing your trip ahead of time, and most important..)
> 
> ...


They will all be gone because uber will not need your vote or your support anymore. Enjoy Florida.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Greenfox said:


> ill leave California and go live with my family in Florida.


Oh God no!

See people, this is where "Florida Man" comes from.

They move here!


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jst1dreamr said:


> They will all be gone because uber will not need your vote or your support anymore. Enjoy Florida.


Uber can go to hell out of any market if they treating they go .they should go with out return .. are many company who wish to operate this business .All city should revoke Uber license instaly when they treatenin by living workers over night without job .. with big penalty and pay workers till find another job


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Gby said:


> Independent it mean independent find out what mean independent . contractor .. Uber treat drivers 100%as employee exempt going online and of .. they take interested from drivers fare at their preference .





NicFit said:


> Tell me what you think that we need more to say we are independent contractors. I can set my own rate, free to choose my fare, get the ride info, can choose who at work for at any given time without notice. I can do on job and call it a day, I can do 20 jobs and call it a day, work 12 hour shifts, work one hour shifts, work 14 days in a row, work one day and then take 13 days off, what the hell more do you think there is about being an independent contractor that's missing? What??? Name one thing that's missing, just one
> 
> No is the choice for being a socialist wage slave, this is just hating on innovation. oMG someone came up with something new, it's wrong so we must kill it, this is typical liberal thinking and it's what's wrong with all of you haters, you want to be a socialist wage slave then go do something else and leave what I have the @@@@ alone


I thought we were on the same side, then you go and blow up with "liberals" and "socialism". Let me be clear. I'm for ride share drivers remaining as ICs. But they need an app that answers to their needs as independents. At this time, IN CALIFORNIA, the experiment with drivers bidding, etc. are positives. But those feature will vanish once Prop 22 passes. Uber will immediately go backwards and drop those features/policies.

Many supporters of Prop 22 are buying the U/L threats and misinformation. I believe these threats and false choice narratives about flexibility are complete BS.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

stuber said:


> I thought we were on the same side, then you go and blow up with "liberals" and "socialism". Let me be clear. I'm for ride share drivers remaining as ICs. But they need an app that answers to their needs as independents. At this time, IN CALIFORNIA, the experiment with drivers bidding, etc. are positives. But those feature will vanish once Prop 22 passes. Uber will immediately go backwards and drop those features/policies.
> 
> Many supporters of Prop 22 are buying the U/L threats and misinformation. I believe these threats and false choice narratives about flexibility are complete BS.


Prop 22 has become a political divide, Dems want no, Repubs want yes. I believe that the Dems just want this as a means to control the workers, they don't want more money in the workers pockets, they want the money in the programs pockets. If Prop 22 fails then California will make $7 billion more off of Uber per year, that's why Uber spent almost $200 million to fight AB5. It's nothing what Uber and myself stand to lose. I will lose probably half my income due to the changes if not more and that's if I'm hired. So far Uber has put out nothing about a false narrative, if Prop 22 fails Uber will be shut down within 30 days until they comply with AB5. They already said they will make these changes that will reduce drivers by 70-80%, limit pay, force their schedules on you and make you pick up that 3.5 that will be a living nightmare for you and your car. It's a narrative, that's for sure, false I don't think so, they will make the these changes to make Uber a hell on wheels job

If Prop 22 fails there will be no more independent contractors ever again, the no vote seals the fate and it's over, with a yes vote it stays alive and we can fix it more


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

We can disagree about predictions of what might happen. Again, I see ICs as the best solution. But Prop 22 doesn't address the core issues. I agree that AB5 is unworkable, but it does force the issue.

These experiments by Uber with giving drivers in California more control are a direct result of the AB5 threat. Where were these experiments before AB5? They didn't exist. Why?

All AB5 says is: "Here is a definition of ICs." The California Assembly didn't say to Uber, "you must re-classify drivers as employees." It says if you want to classify drivers as independents, then follow the definitions. Otherwise, those workers are employees.

The AB5 leaves Uber with a choice: Be an employer, or satisfy the requirements for IC status. Uber is *clearly not going to ever* make drivers employees. So, if Prop 22 fails, they are left with one option: permanently fix the app functionalities and policies. As we have discussed, Uber has already experimented with changes...and that's good. But there's nothing stopping them from ditching all those changes once Propp 22 is passed.

So, if you like bidding for trips, seeing destinations, and having right of refusal without penalty (and I like all that), then the best way to get those changes as permanent improvements is to vote down Prop 22.

It's 3-dimensional chess


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> Prop 22 has become a political divide, Dems want no, Repubs want yes. I believe that the Dems just want this as a means to control the workers, they don't want more money in the workers pockets, they want the money in the programs pockets. If Prop 22 fails then California will make $7 billion more off of Uber per year, that's why Uber spent almost $200 million to fight AB5. It's nothing what Uber and myself stand to lose. I will lose probably half my income due to the changes if not more and that's if I'm hired. So far Uber has put out nothing about a false narrative, if Prop 22 fails Uber will be shut down within 30 days until they comply with AB5. They already said they will make these changes that will reduce drivers by 70-80%, limit pay, force their schedules on you and make you pick up that 3.5 that will be a living nightmare for you and your car. It's a narrative, that's for sure, false I don't think so, they will make the these changes to make Uber a hell on wheels job
> 
> If Prop 22 fails there will be no more independent contractors ever again, the no vote seals the fate and it's over, with a yes vote it stays alive and we can fix it more


You are Al wrong let them reduce 80% of driver then you will see how they get apart .. no more billions for them and 7 million Uber CEO annual salary .. all those money they rise it was from drivers investment .


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## producemanjames (Jun 20, 2018)

NicFit said:


> Tell me what you think that we need more to say we are independent contractors. I can set my own rate, free to choose my fare, get the ride info, can choose who at work for at any given time without notice. I can do on job and call it a day, I can do 20 jobs and call it a day, work 12 hour shifts, work one hour shifts, work 14 days in a row, work one day and then take 13 days off, what the hell more do you think there is about being an independent contractor that's missing? What??? Name one thing that's missing, just one
> 
> No is the choice for being a socialist wage slave, this is just hating on innovation. oMG someone came up with something new, it's wrong so we must kill it, this is typical liberal thinking and it's what's wrong with all of you haters, you want to be a socialist wage slave then go do something else and leave what I have the @@@@ alone


Dara, is that you?!?


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

stuber said:


> Setting rates, seeing trip details in advance of accepting, and being free from coercion and penalties for refusing trips are not "perks." These things are requirements if you wish to be considered an independent contractor. Control is the issue. Ride share drivers are misclassified employees. Vote NO on Prop 22 if you want to see the gig app companies actually fix their flawed business model.


Things to expect if RS becomes an employer/employee model:

- Fixed hourly rates of earnings. Minimum wage w/ potential for tips.
- Set driving schedules, likely determined by "first come, first serve."
- Regular and "random" drug and alcohol screenings

...only a few


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Things to expect if RS becomes an employer/employee model:
> 
> - Fixed hourly rates of earnings. Minimum wage w/ potential for tips.
> - Set driving schedules, likely determined by "first come, first serve."
> ...


Drug tests? Hadn't heard that one before, definitely a strong reason to Vote Yes Prop 22, gotta have my drugs &#129396;



Gby said:


> You are Al wrong let them reduce 80% of driver then you will see how they get apart .. no more billions for them and 7 million Uber CEO annual salary .. all those money they rise it was from drivers investment .


Your naive, you do realize Uber is an international company, they will still be making billions. California I think is 10% of their profit. They could shut down the United States and still survive. Seriously, do some research before you post


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

NicFit said:


> Drug tests? Hadn't heard that one before, definitely a strong reason to Vote Yes Prop 22, gotta have my drugs &#129396;


Have you never had a real job before? It's pretty much standard policy just about anywhere, especially businesses where their employees drive vehicles for the business, to not only require a drug and alcohol test as a condition of employment, but to also regularly and randomly send the employees for retesting.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

stuber said:


> We can disagree about predictions of what might happen. Again, I see ICs as the best solution. But Prop 22 doesn't address the core issues. I agree that AB5 is unworkable, but it does force the issue.
> 
> These experiments by Uber with giving drivers in California more control are a direct result of the AB5 threat. Where were these experiments before AB5? They didn't exist. Why?
> 
> ...


The fix will destroy 150k peoples income if AB5 is enforced, that's not the way it should be, why can't we fix it without decimating so many people



UberChiefPIT said:


> Have you never had a real job before? It's pretty much standard policy just about anywhere, especially businesses where their employees drive vehicles for the business, to not only require a drug and alcohol test as a condition of employment, but to also regularly and randomly send the employees for retesting.


I'm well aware, it just hasn't been mentioned, though I think even as Independent contractors there should be drug testing, especially when a pax accused a driver of being under the influence


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> Drug tests? Hadn't heard that one before, definitely a strong reason to Vote Yes Prop 22, gotta have my drugs &#129396;
> 
> 
> Your naive, you do realize Uber is an international company, they will still be making billions. California I think is 10% of their profit. They could shut down the United States and still survive. Seriously, do some research before you post


Yes I know it is international company international investors and they start to sucking Americans workers by exploring them as slave over everything stealing their investment .in my market because our State regulators are corrupted by them are taking up to 70% from drivers fare .. I suggest you to stand up for America not for international investors &#128554;&#128552;


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Yes I know it is international company international investors and they start to sucking Americans workers by exploring them as slave over everything stealing their investment .in my market because our State regulators are corrupted by them are taking up to 70% from drivers fare .. I suggest you to stand up for America not for international investors &#128554;&#128552;


I am standing up for America by not giving into the socialists that want me to be a wage slave again, I have freedom that you can't get from being an employee, to take that away so I can contribute to some program like unemployment that I will never use is anti-American. I should be able to decide how I want to make my money, this is just like going into a store and saying you have to set prices the same. The store owner has their choice of what to set for prices but to say that I can't have that choice is what I'm fighting for

You want to know why I will never work as an employee again, back in 2001 I got an award for being the top technician, I earned the company $45k for the quarter which blew the other repair shops out of the water, think the rest made $10-20k. You know what I got paid, $500 a week or about $6500 for that period. I quit shortly after doing the math, you tell me who got taken advantage of for being an employee. Why didn't I get more of that money? I even bought all my tools, all they provided was the leads. Sound familiar? Now with Uber I take home 75% of anything I make for them, if I had been setup like Uber I would of made $33750. That's $27250 that the company pocket extra just because I was an employee. Think about that


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

What is this license I keep hearing a uber has to operate? They don't have a license to operate or they wouldn't be getting away with what they're doing.


Just saying


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> What is this license I keep hearing a uber has to operate? They don't have a license to operate or they wouldn't be getting away with what they're doing.
> 
> Just saying


You mean a business license? You don't know that you have to file with state and federal every detail every year as a business?

Every state has different requirements, and Uber probably files something with every state i t does business with

Even individual airports have their operating permits you have to get, I have a placard I have to display when I go to some. There's a mountain of paperwork that has to be done and they have to report details, each area is different and I have no clue but they also have to file with the state transportation boards and all kinds of stuff behind the scene we just don't know about because we don't deal with it directly


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> Have lube and condoms ready is all I can say.


Boober will take those, too.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

Greenfox said:


> Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..
> 
> *(seeing your trip ahead of time, and most important..)
> 
> ...


It seems like the most logical step. If you are my employee and I give you a job to do while you are on the clock and you refuse to do it I will fire you.

If drivers are ruled to be employees then why should you expect to still be able to pick and choose what your employer tells you to do?


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Greenfox said:


> Well rideshare professor disagrees, so that's why I came 'out of my hole'...during this PLANNED organized partial shutdown of the u.s. economy


@#professoruber is a pretty bright guy, and he could be 100% correct. I just don't see Uber doing that anytime before exhausting their legal options. And if Prop 22 goes down I believe that would be an appeal to the California Supreme Court.

Switzerland did a similar thing to Uber, effectively banning them. Rather than hire employees, Uber dumped every driver and just became a conduit to the established taxi companies for booking.

"_Khosrowshahi pointed to Switzerland, where in September a Geneva court ruled couriers were employees, not contractors. "That resulted in 77% of couriers being out of work," he said_."

What he doesn't bother to mention is that those "couriers" probably got better paying jobs elsewhere because they didn't have to fight with dog-eat-dog competition.

https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-fares-double-small-cities-if-voters-reject-prop-22-2020-10
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> Prop 22 has become a political divide, Dems want no, Repubs want yes. I believe that the Dems just want this as a means to control the workers, they don't want more money in the workers pockets, they want the money in the programs pockets. If Prop 22 fails then California will make $7 billion more off of Uber per year, that's why Uber spent almost $200 million to fight AB5. It's nothing what Uber and myself stand to lose. I will lose probably half my income due to the changes if not more and that's if I'm hired. So far Uber has put out nothing about a false narrative, if Prop 22 fails Uber will be shut down within 30 days until they comply with AB5. They already said they will make these changes that will reduce drivers by 70-80%, limit pay, force their schedules on you and make you pick up that 3.5 that will be a living nightmare for you and your car. It's a narrative, that's for sure, false I don't think so, they will make the these changes to make Uber a hell on wheels job
> 
> If Prop 22 fails there will be no more independent contractors ever again, the no vote seals the fate and it's over, with a yes vote it stays alive and we can fix it more


"If Prop 22 fails then California will make $7 billion more off of Uber per year, that's why Uber spent almost $200 million to fight AB5."

Exagerration much?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> "If Prop 22 fails then California will make $7 billion more off of Uber per year, that's why Uber spent almost $200 million to fight AB5."
> 
> Exagerration much?


https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/tech/proposition-22-california/index.html
"Then, he found out how much they were spending to get it passed: over $185 million"

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ifornia-ab5-misclassify-employees-contractors
"The changes from the bill would also benefit the state of California, which estimates that it loses $7 billion in tax revenue each year from companies that misclassify employees."

It does look like it's not just Uber in the $7 billion but all of the companies but who's the biggest? I don't think I have an amount for just Uber

Fact is AB5 is also after $7 billion a year, that's not chump change

Do you know where that $7 billion will come from, won't be the workers or drivers, won't be the companies, it'll be the customers and riders, the prices will go up, less demand and less workers and drivers. Way to stifle the economy


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> Have lube and condoms ready is all I can say.


It will do you no good. F*ub*a*r *and Gr*yft* do not use K-Y®, CVS brand or even Crisco™ as it is. If you try to bring your own, they take it away from you before they make you drop 'em and bend over.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/tech/proposition-22-california/index.html
> "Then, he found out how much they were spending to get it passed: over $185 million"
> 
> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ifornia-ab5-misclassify-employees-contractors
> ...


So, who makes up the difference when 7 billion dollars in taxes are not paid?

Are you suggesting drivers should pay those taxes?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> So, who makes up the difference when 7 billion dollars in taxes are not paid?
> 
> Are you suggesting drivers should pay those taxes?


The riders will be the ones that will make up the difference ie fare hikes

Higher fares = less demand = less drivers


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Greenfox said:


> ....I could tell you some uber stories about 4th of July in Oakland but you probably wouldn't believe any of it..


Ah yes, 4th of July. Always a show best watched from a distance. Been there, done that.

You haven't lived until you've seen a street brawl.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> If Prop 22 fails then California will make $7 billion more off of Uber per year, that's why Uber spent almost $200 million to fight AB5.


Ubers gross bookings last year was $18 billion for the entire world last year, 7 billion to California?

*Ubers Gross* Bookings grew $4.0 billion year-over-year to $18.1 billion, representing 28% year-over-year growth, or 30% on a constant currency basis


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> Ubers gross bookings last year was $18 billion for the entire world last year, 7 billion to California?
> 
> *Ubers Gross* Bookings grew $4.0 billion year-over-year to $18.1 billion, representing 28% year-over-year growth, or 30% on a constant currency basis


They stole driver's investment all around the world tx to California by stopped them coming daily robbery


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> The riders will be the ones that will make up the difference ie fare hikes
> 
> Higher fares = less demand = less drivers


So, who will charge the riders for the 7 billion dollars not being paid in taxes?

Will Uber pay the 7 Billion or will the state go after "small business owner" drivers for the 7 billion dollars?

Someone has to pay those missing taxes.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

observer said:


> So, who will charge the riders for the 7 billion dollars not being paid in taxes?
> 
> Will Uber pay the 7 Billion or will the state go after small business owner drivers for the 7 billion dollars?
> 
> Someone has to pay those missing taxes.


Uber will pay the taxes once driver's are employee Uber will pay drivers expenses then they will deduct in taxes Uber will pay commercial insurance then they will deduct etc. No more free money for them no more luxury vehicle at drivers expenses and rising Uber profile . Drivers will have retirement plan health insurance etc I warranty you drivers are going to have much be life and earning in benefits


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

NicFit said:


> I am standing up for America by not giving into the socialists that want me to be a wage slave again, I have freedom that you can't get from being an employee, to take that away so I can contribute to some program like unemployment that I will never use is anti-American. I should be able to decide how I want to make my money, this is just like going into a store and saying you have to set prices the same. The store owner has their choice of what to set for prices but to say that I can't have that choice is what I'm fighting for
> 
> You want to know why I will never work as an employee again, back in 2001 I got an award for being the top technician, I earned the company $45k for the quarter which blew the other repair shops out of the water, think the rest made $10-20k. You know what I got paid, $500 a week or about $6500 for that period. I quit shortly after doing the math, you tell me who got taken advantage of for being an employee. Why didn't I get more of that money? I even bought all my tools, all they provided was the leads. Sound familiar? Now with Uber I take home 75% of anything I make for them, if I had been setup like Uber I would of made $33750. That's $27250 that the company pocket extra just because I was an employee. Think about that


I think it's great that you want to be independent. Me too. That's why I don't partner with Uber or Lyft. These companies insist on controlling my opportunities for THEIR benefit. Ride share needs to rethink their approach and build an actual supply/demand format. Basically, Uber should work like eBay. A NO vote is a better path towards that.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Uber will pay the taxes once driver's are employee Uber will pay drivers expenses then they will deduct in taxes Uber will pay commercial insurance then they will deduct etc. No more free money for them no more luxury vehicle at drivers expenses and rising Uber profile . Drivers will have retirement plan health insurance etc I warranty you drivers are going to have much be life and earning in benefits


So you get all those things at McDonald's? Retirement plans?? No where in AB5 says anything more then health care, jobs don't offer these kinds of perks unless they've change the laws in the past few years. They will give the minimum that jobs offer, you want retirement go to school and get a career. You think Uber won't have luxury vehicles? They are going to pay state minimums for drivers costs so they'll get even less then they do now. Want that $2 per mile, ha, we can give you 30 cents, that's what the state allows.

So Uber will pay the tax and then they will raise fares to cover it, your $15 ride will now be $30+ in good areas, $45+ in remote areas. The drivers will get their $18 an hour, the few drivers that are left still and that's how it'll work.



stuber said:


> I think it's great that you want to be independent. Me too. That's why I don't partner with Uber or Lyft. These companies insist on controlling my opportunities for THEIR benefit. Ride share needs to rethink their approach and build an actual supply/demand format. Basically, Uber should work like eBay. A NO vote is a better path towards that.


A no vote means that your not a partner, it means you an employee like Walmart, you get paid by the hour, no surges, no bonuses, just your hourly pay of 1.2 time the minimum wage. There won't be no ebay system, nothing like that. Uber will still charge surge, pay the driver minimum wage. I don't think you have any clue on what no actually means. There will be zero fare splitting like there is now, Uber will pay the minimum wage and that's it. Uber can charge the rider what it wants, say $100 for the ride and still just pay you the employee minimum wage. It also means there won't be any more changes, it's already over. If Prop 22 wasn't on the ballot right this very moment Uber and Lyft will have already be shut down until they have employee drivers



Paul Vincent said:


> Ubers gross bookings last year was $18 billion for the entire world last year, 7 billion to California?
> 
> *Ubers Gross* Bookings grew $4.0 billion year-over-year to $18.1 billion, representing 28% year-over-year growth, or 30% on a constant currency basis


As I already pointed out that the $7 billion is all the independent contractors out there and not just Uber, though with Uber being one of the biggest out there and California is probably 10-12% of there total market I would put Uber at least around $1.5 billion of that $7 billion

I don't have an exact number Uber will pay but the State said they would collect $7 billion more if everyone had to comply with AB5


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

NicFit said:


> So you get all those things at McDonald's? Retirement plans?? No where in AB5 says anything more then health care, jobs don't offer these kinds of perks unless they've change the laws in the pst few years. They will give the minimum that jobs offer, you want retirement go to school and get a career. You think Uber won't have luxury vehicles? They are going to pay state minimums for drivers costs so they'll get even less then they do now. Want that $2 per mile, ha, we can give you 30 cents, that's what the state allows.
> 
> So Uber will pay the tax and then they will raise fares to cover it, your $15 ride will now be $30+ in good areas, $45+ in remote areas. The drivers will get their $18 an hour, the few drivers that are left still and that's how it'll work.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what NO vote means. But you are buying their BS believing Uber will adopt an employee model if Prop 22 fails. They won't do that. I don't know what they will do, but I know they won't make drivers employees.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Gby said:


> Uber will pay the taxes once driver's are employee Uber will pay drivers expenses then they will deduct in taxes Uber will pay commercial insurance then they will deduct etc. No more free money for them no more luxury vehicle at drivers expenses and rising Uber profile . Drivers will have retirement plan health insurance etc I warranty you drivers are going to have much be life and earning in benefits





NicFit said:


> So you get all those things at McDonald's? Retirement plans?? No where in AB5 says anything more then health care, jobs don't offer these kinds of perks unless they've change the laws in the pst few years. They will give the minimum that jobs offer, you want retirement go to school and get a career. You think Uber won't have luxury vehicles? They are going to pay state minimums for drivers costs so they'll get even less then they do now. Want that $2 per mile, ha, we can give you 30 cents, that's what the state allows.
> 
> So Uber will pay the tax and then they will raise fares to cover it, your $15 ride will now be $30+ in good areas, $45+ in remote areas. The drivers will get their $18 an hour, the few drivers that are left still and that's how it'll work.
> 
> ...


Maybe not in your market in another State any company who hold more then 15 employee have to pay all employment benefits including pay vacation over time .. health insurance ..NY are the one and California will have to ..the law will be upgraded every year you will see that


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Maybe not in your market in another State any company who hold more then 15 employee have to pay all employment benefits including pay vacation over time .. health insurance ..NY are the one and California will have to ..the law will be upgraded every year you will see that


So my pay will be slashed by more then 50% just so I can get a couple of weeks off paid, no thanks

What your not realizing is I'm getting paid all of that with the higher pay, just have to (omg) manage my money so I can take my vacations. Plus there are so many intangible benefits I have now that AB5 can't give me like I want to work one day this week or seven no one cares, start putting a price on that stuff too and you'll see how they really stack up


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Gby said:


> Maybe not in your market in another State any company who hold more then 15 employee have to pay all employment benefits including pay vacation over time .. health insurance ..NY are the one and California will have to ..the law will be upgraded every year you will see that


Who are going to work with State minimum wages as driver .. driving people around it is big responsibility not fleeping burgers if you mentioned mc Donald .if Trump win the strategy of work are going to change because he will bring all the jobs back ..it is the only way to restore America ..


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Who are going to work with State minimum wages as driver .. driving people around it is big responsibility not fleeping burgers if you mentioned mc Donald .if Trump win the strategy of work are going to change because he will bring all the jobs back ..it is the only way to restore America ..


They may pay some areas higher, know one knows, but it won't be the same as it is now, guarantee it'll be lower or some areas won't have Uber anymore at all if they can't make a profit. That's why they will only hire 20-30% of the current drivers, if your not in a major metropolitan area you won't have Uber/Lyft as a choice anymore


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Gby said:


> Who are going to work with State minimum wages as driver .. driving people around it is big responsibility not fleeping burgers if you mentioned mc Donald .if Trump win the strategy of work are going to change because he will bring all the jobs back ..it is the only way to restore America ..


Please don't bring Donald Trump into this mess. He has a proven track record of chaos, incompetence, and failure.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> They are going to pay state minimums for drivers costs so they'll get even less then they do now. Want that $2 per mile, ha, we can give you 30 cents, that's what the state allows.


57.5 cents a mile reimbursement as an employee. My wife is a state judge. In 2004 the workers comp law changed "SB 899". At that time the IRS reimbursement rate was 54.6 cents a mile, insurance companies decided they would pay $0.39 a mile to injured Workers for transportation using their own vehicles to and from doctor's appointments therapy etc. They went to court and were forced to pay the IRS standard.Whoever is spreading this BS that employees would not be getting compensated at the 57.5 cents a mile rate knows not of what they speak. I happened to be married by an expert and she is the one who decides these matters in court.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

stuber said:


> Please don't bring Donald Trump into this mess. He has a proven track record of chaos, incompetence, and failure.


Yeah, UAE, Bahrain and Sudan is all those things you said, but don't keep going, the mods here will hate on us


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> So my pay will be slashed by more then 50% just so I can get a couple of weeks off paid, no thanks


$0.30 a mile $0.27 a minute, no more surge. If that's not a pay cut I don't know what is. I don't advocate for AB5, just pointing out that prop 22 is a massive pay cut.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> 57.5 cents a mile reimbursement as an employee. My wife is a state judge. In 2004 the workers comp law changed "SB 899". At that time the IRS reimbursement rate was 54.6 cents a mile, insurance companies decided they would pay $0.39 a mile to injured Workers for transportation using their own vehicles to and from doctor's appointments therapy etc. They went to court and were forced to pay the IRS standard.Whoever is spreading this BS that employees would not be getting compensated at the 57.5 cents a mile rate knows not of what they speak. I happened to be married by an expert and she is the one who decides these matters in court.


And 57.5 cents per mile is a joke of what I make now, try .84 for just X


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> They may pay some areas higher, know one knows, but it won't be the same as it is now, guarantee it'll be lower or some areas won't have Uber anymore at all if they can't make a profit. That's why they will only hire 20-30% of the current drivers, if your not in a major metropolitan area you won't have Uber/Lyft as a choice anymore


Only limited quantity of drivers makes money now ..Uber are using them by algorithm are feeding them for some time then after put them in the hole . Exactly that's how they call when are setting up drivers to get limited quantity of rides .. they are feeding them only if demand get very high .. this Ab5 are not created because drivers are doing so well .. government at one point need to protect it's people in one form or another .. from predators corporation like Uber


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> $0.30 a mile $0.27 a minute, no more surge. If that's not a pay cut I don't know what is. I don't advocate for AB5, just pointing out that prop 22 is a massive pay cut.


And Prop 22 is what the minimum they will pay you if the ride turns out to be a dud, like a long pickup with a short trip because there are idiot drivers out there that do that. I won't take long pickups or minimum fare trips so I'll never see a penny from Prop 22. Learn what it really is, that is the safety net of something isn't right, the rates are higher on what I'll actually earn, I'll earn .36 a minute and .84 a mile for X, if somehow my trips don't earn the Prop 22 math then Uber pays me extra


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NicFit said:


> So you just said what an independent contractor should have, Uber has all those things you listed and you still don't think it's right? What else are you thinking they should have?


They're PART of what an IC should have.

A true IC should be the party that sets the rules and rates.

That's the way it is when you call a plumber or HVAC tech to your home. You don't hand them papers to sign with the terms and rates, they hand YOU the papers to sign.

That's the way it should be for anyone who's classified as an IC/sole proprietor.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Only limited quantity of drivers makes money now ..Uber are using them by algorithm are feeding them for some time then after put them in the hole . Exactly that's how they call when are setting up drivers to get limited quantity of rides .. they are feeding them only if demand get very high .. this Ab5 are not created because drivers are doing so well .. government at one point need to protect it's people in one form or another .. from predators corporation like Uber


AB5 was never about the pay, it was started because some company hire employees and then changed them to independent contractors to save money. They had zero other reason to allow them to be independent contractors, they still made them work shifts and had no extra earnings and were still just paid by the hour. Uber designed this system with the freedom to earn to your potential, if you can't make minimum wage driving for Uber then you don't have what it take to be a good driver. You think I just turn on my app and I get $30 an hour? No I know my market, I know the times to drive and where to drive. If it's crappy out I stop driving. I know when there are big events and I know when it'll be dead. Anything in life you want to make the good money be prepared to do a lot of work for it


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> Learn what it really is, that is the safety net of something isn't right, the rates are higher on what I'll actually earn, I'll earn .36 a minute and .84 a mile for X, if somehow my trips don't earn the Prop 22 math then Uber pays me extra


I'm sorry I don't quite follow what you're saying. What I do understand is the language of proposition 22. Minimum wage plus 20% for engaged time and $0.30 a mile. Plus in the language of the bill it says if you earn more from incentives that can be applied towards your minimum earnings. Legally that is wording to screw the driver. My wife's a judge she was an attorney for 25 years ,most of our friends are attorneys. I know I believe them who are experts over somebody who's not practicing law. Prop 22 if passed is a legal document, a law. If more earnings are not included in the wording they do not exist, and the wording states incentives and tips as extra earnings. Simple to most.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> They're PART of what an IC should have.
> 
> A true IC should be the party that sets the rules and rates.
> 
> ...


A plumber is not an independent contractor they are a sole proprietor, an independent contractor is paid to do a job for your company and then move on, I can set my own rates and I can make my own rules in my car. Want to smoke, Uber doesn't care but I forbid it, Uber mostly just enforced state law like you can't drive more then 12 hours



Paul Vincent said:


> I'm sorry I don't quite follow what you're saying. What I do understand is the language of proposition 22. Minimum wage plus 20% for engaged time and $0.30 a mile. Plus in the language of the bill it says if you earn more from incentives they can be applied towards your minimum earnings. Legally that is wording to screw the driver.my wife's a judge she was an attorney for 25 years ,most of our friends are attorneys. I know I believe them who are experts over somebody who's not practicing law. Prop 22 if passed is a legal document, a law. If more earnings are not included in the wording they do not exist, and the wording states incentives and tips as extra earnings. Simple to most.


You don't get it, it's the minimum earnings, you can get a surge still for 5x and make $50 for the trip, Prop 22 won't kick in and you'll just make the $50. They are now making sure the entire time you are on the job for Uber that you don't get shorted. If you take a trip, drive for 20 minutes and it turns out to be a three block ride so you only earned $5 for that ride Prop 22 fixes that so you can paid the entire time you were on all for Uber, but if you show up and make $50 for that call then Prop 22 gives you nothing. You still get the same rates you get now, not the rates from Prop 22, they are a secondary guaranteed rate that kicks in only when the normal earnings aren't enough

There will be now two sets of rates, the rates that are current and Prop 22 rates, you will get the higher of the two


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> You still get the same rates you get now, not the rates from Prop 22, they are a secondary guaranteed rate that kicks in only when the normal earnings aren't enough


You don't get it, the new pay rates under prop 22 are stated in the proposition itself. NO MORE SURGE. Incentives will be provided to get drivers out in busy times. You know like the ones they had last year surge clouds, an extra two, three ,five or $10 for a ride. The rate of pay though is minimum wage plus 20% for engaged time and 30 cents a mile, it even makes a provision for when the minimum wage goes up and if the cost of operating a vehicle by the IRS standards go up, or down from year to year.



NicFit said:


> There will be now two sets of rates, the rates that are current and Prop 22 rates, you will get the higher of the two


That's not in the bill so it doesn't exist. We're talking about a new law here. It will be set in stone just like AB5.



observer said:


> So, who will charge the riders for the 7 billion dollars not being paid in taxes?


It's a mystery


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> AB5 was never about the pay, it was started because some company hire employees and then changed them to independent contractors to save money. They had zero other reason to allow them to be independent contractors, they still made them work shifts and had no extra earnings and were still just paid by the hour. Uber designed this system with the freedom to earn to your potential, if you can't make minimum wage driving for Uber then you don't have what it take to be a good driver. You think I just turn on my app and I get $30 an hour? No I know my market, I know the times to drive and where to drive. If it's crappy out I stop driving. know when there are big events and I know when it'll be dead. Anything in life you want to make the good money be prepared to do a lot of work for it


My information about Ab5 it is because they had million of law suit because of driver's earning Uber have been stolen their money drivers sleeping in their cars and the company rise billions after their work


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> You don't get it, the new pay rates under prop 22 are stated in the proposition itself. NO MORE SURGE. Incentives will be provided to get drivers out in busy times. You know like the ones they had last year surge clouds, an extra two, three ,five or $10 for a ride. The rate of pay though is minimum wage plus 20% for engaged time and 30 cents a mile, it even makes a provision for when the minimum wage goes up and if the cost of operating a vehicle by the IRS standards go up, or down from year to year.
> 
> 
> That's not in the bill so it doesn't exist. We're talking about a new law here. It will be set in stone just like AB5.
> ...


That's not how Prop 22 works at all, you will get your rates but if your have a bunch of dead miles or time waster thats when Prop 22 kicks in. Think of it how Lyfts guarantee works, they say get 30 rides and you make will get a at least a total of $175, you make more then $175 and earn $200 you get nothing from the guarantee, you only make $150 then you get payed $25. Prop 22 keeps the surge and they calculate it so while on call you will meet Prop 22 minimums or earn more, which met is higher, it doesn't change the rates your currency given or the surge earnings



Gby said:


> My information about Ab5 it is because they had million of law suit because of driver's earning Uber have been stolen their money drivers sleeping in their cars and the company rise billions after their work


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Assembly_Bill_5_(2019)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamex_Operations_West,_Inc._v._Superior_Court
Read these both, it's true that Uber became a target but this started in 2005 long before Uber even existed

This took 14 years to make AB5, if it was started because of Uber it wouldn't of been done for another 8 years or so since Uber didn't get popular until around 2014

California couldn't go after Uber until it was all said and done with AB5 and Dynamex, once it was done then they went after Uber because they didn't want two cases of the issue at once so the courts wouldn't waste resources

AB5 would of been created with or without Uber existing


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> That's not how Prop 22 works at all


again I'll remind you my wife is a judge was an attorney for 25 years I have legal counsel ,do you? No offense, I was trying to enlighten you but that's impossible.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Paul Vincent said:


> using their own vehicles to and from doctor's appointments therapy etc


The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for medical or moving is only $0.17 per mile. The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for charity is only $0.14 per mile. The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for business $0.575 per mile.

The IRS determined $0.575 is the amount to drive a new, $32,000 vehicle, for five years at 15,000 mile per year. It includes all costs such as finance charges, taxes, registration, expected repairs, maintenance, fuel, etc. The typical Uber car probably costs about half as much to operate.



Nats121 said:


> A true IC should be the party that sets the rules and rates.


What happened to the art of negotiation? If a plumber (or any IC) tells me $100 to fix a pipe and I offer him $90, can't he accept the $90? If I demand it be done in less than a month, does he lose IC status? If I tell him I'm only home between 8 am and 5 pm am I exerting too much control over an IC? If I tell him another plumber will do it for $80, can't he make a counter offer?



NicFit said:


> A no vote means that your not a partner, it means you an employee


Being an employee for Uber sounds like a terrible idea. Mr stuber agrees with us on that point, even though he says to vote no on Prop 22. His reasoning is that Uber will change their business model to meet the definition of IC for drivers. That's possible but a gamble.

The Prop 22 question should be looked at from the typical passenger's position. There are a lot more pax than drivers. Will AB5 or Prop 22 offer cheaper fares? Will AB5 or Prop 22 offer better service? Will AB5 or Prop 22 offer more jobs?

AB5 would probably generate more taxes for the state. More taxes is not a good thing. Taxes on a business reduces employment and increases prices.

Any law which implements exemptions is not a good law. There are about 20 professions exempt from AB5! I guess what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

I work as an IC in Nevada but have dozens of clients in Kalifornia. When AB5 passes, I had to sign forms stating I was an IC and not an employee. My profession was specifically exempted from AB5. My profession (real estate) spends a huge amount of money on lobbying. Look at #2 on this list: https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...g-who-spent-on-healthcare-issues-in-2016.html Coincidence?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

bsliv said:


> The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for medical or moving is only $0.17 per mile. The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for charity is only $0.14 per mile. The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for business $0.575 per mile.
> 
> The IRS determined $0.575 is the amount to drive a new, $32,000 vehicle, for five years at 15,000 mile per year. It includes all costs such as finance charges, taxes, registration, expected repairs, maintenance, fuel, etc. The typical Uber car probably costs about half as much to operate.
> 
> ...


I can set my own surge, passenger doesn't like it they are free to request another driver. I agree, the drivers are probably going to get the same (or less) as they do now but the riders are the one that will really pay for it. The reason Uber was so successful is it offered rides at a decent price on demand. Cabs over charged and weren't reliable. What AB5 does it make the service unreliable again. I think Uber will struggle if ever make a profit again in California and they may just leave the market entirely


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> What happened to the art of negotiation? If a plumber (or any IC) tells me $100 to fix a pipe and I offer him $90, can't he accept the $90? If I demand it be done in less than a month, does he lose IC status? If I tell him I'm only home between 8 am and 5 pm am I exerting too much control over an IC? If I tell him another plumber will do it for $80, can't he make a counter offer?


You can attempt to negotiate anything you want, including the price of a Big Mac at your local McD or the price for replacing your toilet. You can also try to negotiate the terms in the contract (if the plumber issues one). In most cases the price and terms are non-negotiable, but occasionally you might find a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc who's willing to haggle.

When it comes to dealing with these so-called "gig" companies, NOTHING is negotiable. Their approach is "our way or the highway".


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> You can attempt to negotiate anything you want, including the price of a Big Mac at your local McD or the price for replacing your toilet. You can also try to negotiate the terms in the contract (if the plumber issues one). In most cases the price and terms are non-negotiable, but occasionally you might find a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc who's willing to haggle.
> 
> When it comes to dealing with these so-called "gig" companies, NOTHING is negotiable. Their approach is "our way or the highway".


It is not only non negotiable they are using tactics to push drivers to work for free


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

bsliv said:


> The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for medical or moving is only $0.17 per mile. The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for charity is only $0.14 per mile. The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for business $0.575 per mile.
> 
> The IRS determined $0.575 is the amount to drive a new, $32,000 vehicle, for five years at 15,000 mile per year. It includes all costs such as finance charges, taxes, registration, expected repairs, maintenance, fuel, etc. The typical Uber car probably costs about half as much to operate.
> 
> ...


Why is your profession exempted?

Could it be that you need a state license to exercise your profession?

Do you know why real estate and most other professions require a license? Not because states required it.

It's because those in real estate got together to keep others from working in real estate. They then got together with politicians to require licensing.

They want to make it harder to work in real estate thus keeping their pay higher. If anybody could work in real estate without being licensed, pay would drop drastically.

It's basically a medallion system for real estate. A way to regulate those that can work in real estate.

Most of the professions exempted from AB5 require state licenses to work in those professions.

Uber drivers require no such license but maybe they should. The pay would skyrocket as most drivers fail whatever test is implemented.

That would leave only drivers who pass certain requirements. Those drivers would make more money.

Your plumber analogy is ridiculous.

Plumbers are licensed by the state in California and are true Independent Contractors.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> ^^^ This
> 
> Even if 22 passes, the Supreme Court of California can kill it just like they did Prop 8, and I suspect they will.
> 
> ...


What is the process for the supreme court of California to kill off prop. 22?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> NOTHING is negotiable.


Kalifornia drivers can set their own rate via multiplier. That's Uber accepting the driver's offer. That's a negotiation.



Gby said:


> push drivers to work for free


So the answer is to penalize passengers, most drivers, and Uber due to incompetent drivers? Instead of motivating the bright to excel, the government is lowering the bar to protect the less than average intellect? Lowering the bar is not the way to excel as a society.



observer said:


> They then got together with politicians to require licensing.


Yes they did. It takes 1500 hours of formal training to be a barber in Nevada. It only takes 600 hours of training to be a cop in Nevada. That is not right (unless you're currently a barber). If someone offers to cut my hair for $2, great! If they do a poor job, I'll grow out of it and use a different one next time.

If someone offers to drive me across town for $2, great! If they do a poor job, I'll get over it and use a different driver next time.

Why penalize a whole industry and clients of the industry for the poor decisions of a few who shouldn't be trying to run a business? The barber who charges $2 will be out of business soon. Same with the driver.

Let the market determine the winners and losers. Let the consumers vote with their wallets. Economically speaking, the least amount of government intervention in an industry, the better the results. Letting the government promote equal opportunity is far from letting the government providing equal outcomes. Let those who know how to run a business run a business. Let those who lack the knowledge to run a business fail at the business.



observer said:


> Most of the professions exempted from AB5 require state licenses to work in those professions.


Exempt professions include fine artists, freelance writers, still photographers, photojournalists, freelance editors, newspaper cartoonists, translators, copy editors, producers, musicians, and youth sports coaches. I don't think those professions require a state professional license, nor should they.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> What is the process for the supreme court of California to kill off prop. 22?


You know what, I mis-spoke. It wasn't the Supreme Court of California that overturned Prop 8, it was a Federal judge.

I suspect the appeal would be filed by the California Attorney General on the grounds that Proposition 22 violates Federal labor law.

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-mew-prop-8-10042010-story.html


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> Kalifornia drivers can set their own rate via multiplier. That's Uber accepting the driver's offer. That's a negotiation.


CA drivers are "negotiating" with the pax, NOT Uber.

If Uber so chooses they can abolish this policy anytime they want.

As you know, Uber refuses to implement the CA changes to the other 49 states.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> CA drivers are "negotiating" with the pax, NOT Uber.
> 
> If Uber so chooses they can abolish this policy anytime they want.
> 
> As you know, Uber refuses to implement the CA changes to the other 49 states.


They refuse to roll it out in the other states because if Uber loses Prop 22 then the other states will turn all the drivers into employees, if they win then there could be a chance they roll it out nationwide so no other states can try to turn drivers into employees, gotta be patient and see how California plays out


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NicFit said:


> They refuse to roll it out in the other states because if Uber loses Prop 22 then the other states will turn all the drivers into employees, if they win then there could be a chance they roll it out nationwide so no other states can try to turn drivers into employees, gotta be patient and see how California plays out


They refuse to bring it to the other states because they absolutely hate having to do it in California. They did it out of fear and desperation.

They despise showing destinations to the drivers and having to settle for 25% of the pax fares, especially surges.

Just like CA, Uber's extreme fear of AB5-type of laws is the best hope the drivers from the other 49 states have of getting the CA changes brought to their states.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

bsliv said:


> Kalifornia drivers can set their own rate via multiplier. That's Uber accepting the driver's offer. That's a negotiation.
> 
> So the answer is to penalize passengers, most drivers, and Uber due to incompetent drivers? Instead of motivating the bright to excel, the government is lowering the bar to protect the less than average intellect? Lowering the bar is not the way to excel as a society.
> 
> ...


Uber can't negotiate a rate it's just a "platform connecting a passenger with a driver", remember?

In a true IC/ customer relationship the IC and customer negotiate their own transaction.

Or did you get your 90 dollar quote for your plumber from Uber?

Things don't work that way. Uber doesn't get to pay substandard wages.

Your supposed plumber would never charge you two dollars, would he? Even though I'm sure you would love to destroy another industry.

Let the market decide?

I LOVE THAT IDEA.

Lets deregulate the taxi industry AND rideshare. Let anyone and everyone who wants to hire themselves out as cars for hire to do so. F Uber. Let them go bankrupt if they can't compete. Remember they don't hire drivers, they're just a platform.

That would be true free market.

While we are at it lets deregulate ALL industries including yours.

Maybe you'll enjoy working for two dollars an hour.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> What is the process for the supreme court of California to kill off prop. 22?


They wouldn't have to because the CA legislature has the power the regulate these companies, such as mandating that rideshare drivers be paid taxi rates. With enough votes the legislature could ban these companies altogether.

If Prop 22 wins Dara better watch out, because there'll be plenty of pissed off and highly motivated legislators such as Lorena Gonzalez on the warpath.


----------



## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> They wouldn't have to because the CA legislature has the power the regulate these companies, such as mandating that rideshare drivers be paid taxi rates. With enough votes the legislature could ban these companies altogether.
> 
> If Prop 22 wins Dara better watch out, because there'll be plenty of pissed off and highly motivated legislators such as Lorena Gonzalez on the warpath.


I have no doubt Lorena❤ has plans for Uber should they be needed. As for Dara personally Lorena may draw inspiration from that other "Lorena" you don't want to cross Lorena Bobbitt&#128521;


----------



## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

bsliv said:


> The 2020 IRS deduction for using a private vehicle for medical or moving is only $0.17 per mile.


that is the IRS deduction you can use if you're driving your vehicle to your doctor's appointment for a regular doctor's visit. That is not the scenario I stated which is work related.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

observer said:


> In a true IC/ customer relationship the IC and customer negotiate their own transaction.


Not necessarily. Due to collusion between mortgagers and appraisers in the past, an appraisal management company usually acts as an intermediary, just like Uber acts as an intermediary. A bank will ask the amc to get an appraiser to value a property. The amc contacts an appraiser and either offers a fee or asks for a bid. The appraiser then either accepts or rejects the offer or makes a bid on the assignment. The appraiser (IC) and the bank (customer) never communicate but negotiations take place. The amc usually manages to get a 20 to 30% of the fee. Sometimes its more than 50% of the fee. Sometimes the amc loses money. The process is very similar to Uber's model.



observer said:


> Your supposed plumber would never charge you two dollars, would he?


If the plumber had no business sense, he might and I would be happy. If the plumber and I agree on a fee for an assignment, there should not be a third party that says we can't make that agreement. Would a driver accept a ride for $2 that goes 10 miles?



observer said:


> destroy another industry.


What if regulators determined that a simple plumbing job should be $500? A lot fewer plumbers would be hired. Another industry destroyed.



observer said:


> Let the market decide?


Yes.



observer said:


> Lets deregulate the taxi industry AND rideshare. Let anyone and everyone who wants to hire themselves out as cars for hire to do so.


Correct again.



observer said:


> While we are at it lets deregulate ALL industries including yours.


I think you're beginning to understand.



observer said:


> Maybe you'll enjoy working for two dollars an hour.


If you are lending hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars, would you hire someone with no training and no experience for $2 to supply you with the market value of the item being used as collateral for the money? If you do, you will eventually get burned. The people in business to lend money understand the importance of correct valuations. But I don't want to stop lenders from attempting to pay $2. Let them get burned. Let the smart lenders survive and thrive. Let the market determine the fees, not some regulator.



Paul Vincent said:


> insurance companies decided they would pay $0.39 a mile to injured Workers for transportation using their own vehicles to and from doctor's appointments therapy etc.


The Internal Revenue Service announced gas mileage reimbursement rates for 2020 in December.
For this year, the mileage rate in 2 categories have gone down from previous years:

57.5 cents per mile for business miles (58 cents in 2019)
17 cents per mile driven for medical or moving purposes (20 cents in 2019)
14 cents per mile driven in service of charitable organizations
https://www.zenefits.com/workest/gas-mileage-reimbursement-rates-for-2020/


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

dnlbaboof said:


> no these perks will stay if prop 22 passes. It would be bad PR and it would make uber more likely for the courts to rule against them.


That's the funniest post I've seen in a while. I'm willing to bet anyone on here that if prop 22 passes, within 6 months some "perks " will be diminished. They will have a lame reason why and people will yawn and go about their partying. The courts will have already moved on.


----------



## Director T.Y. Sanchez (Sep 21, 2019)

You only get that in Cal. anyhow.


----------



## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Prop 22 gives drivers a lot more than ever before, a health care stipend for all apps if you have a pax or are enroute 15 hours a week, minimum wage x1.2 plus 30 cents a mile if you have a pax or are enroute, this will help with the 20 minute pickup 2 minute ride situation on Lyft. This is just minimum, if there is demand youll get more.

Whats the option 77% of drivers lose their job like in Switzerland? The few remaining drivers there hate it and 50% plan to quit.....all for what min wage? No health care with ab5 bc law says less than 30 hours a week no health care provided.


----------



## Nosoupforyou (Feb 3, 2018)

Greenfox said:


> Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..
> 
> *(seeing your trip ahead of time, and most important..)
> 
> ...


What perks? You mean I'll lose my discount on a bicycle helmet? **** Uber


----------



## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

Gby said:


> You are Al wrong let them reduce 80% of driver then you will see how they get apart .. no more billions for them and 7 million Uber CEO annual salary .. all those money they rise it was from drivers investment .


This is the massive question about prop 22. If prop 22 fails, what will Uber do? Will they then make sure the Uber business model lines up directly with the new independent contractor laws.... Or will they decide to make the drivers employees.

It comes down to their ability to pass the ab5 test.

No matter what the outcome, drivers are not looking at a rosy future.

One thing we know, Uber will not stop fighting just because prop 22 fails.


----------



## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

bsliv said:


> The Internal Revenue Service announced gas mileage reimbursement rates for 2020 in December.
> For this year, the mileage rate in 2 categories have gone down from previous years:
> 
> 57.5 cents per mile for business miles (58 cents in 2019)
> ...


I don't understand, what is your point? Thank you


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

dnlbaboof said:


> these perks will stay if prop 22 passes


Are you being serious?



NicFit said:


> And 57.5 cents per mile is a joke of what I make now, try .84 for just X


Did you read proposition 22? If it passes it's 30 cents a mile. Did I get redirected to the stoners forum?


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Karen carpenter said:


> Are you being serious?
> 
> 
> Did you read proposition 22? If it passes it's 30 cents a mile. Did I get redirected to the stoners forum?


Wow 30 cents mile how much do they pay now..I'm support AB5 driver's definitely will have better life


----------



## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Karen carpenter said:


> Are you being serious?
> 
> 
> Did you read proposition 22? If it passes it's 30 cents a mile. Did I get redirected to the stoners forum?


thats a minimum plus 1.2x min wage, it only kicks in if you make a low amount


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Karen carpenter said:


> Are you being serious?
> 
> 
> Did you read proposition 22? If it passes it's 30 cents a mile. Did I get redirected to the stoners forum?


30 cents per *engaged mile. *Drivers will lose all other miles.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

dnlbaboof said:


> thats a minimum plus 1.2x min wage, it only kicks in if you make a low amount


Another kind of misleading Uber could not be trusted I'm the fifth year with them .I never got so much harassment ..this are madness corporation working only for their interest and treat drivers like slave ..


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Paul Vincent said:


> I don't understand, what is your point?


My point is you remembered the facts of your wife's case incorrectly.

You stated:


Paul Vincent said:


> pay $0.39 a mile to injured Workers for transportation using their own vehicles to and from doctor's appointments therapy etc.


A person using their own vehicle to and from a doctors office is medical use of their vehicle and are entitled to $0.17 / mile.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

dnlbaboof said:


> thats a minimum plus 1.2x min wage, it only kicks in if you make a low amount


Wow


----------



## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

bsliv said:


> A person using their own vehicle to and from a doctors office is medical use of their vehicle and are entitled to $0.17 / mile.


A person using their own vehicle to go to a doctor's appointment for their own personal health not a workers comp issue. It's not that hard to comprehend. Visiting a doctor under a workers comp injury is part of your work.... I'm trying to simplify this for you but I think that's going to be impossible. Good night good luck.
There was a trial, there was a decision and now it's precedent.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

bsliv said:


> My point is you remembered the facts of your wife's case incorrectly.
> 
> You stated:
> 
> A person using their own vehicle to and from a doctors office is medical use of their vehicle and are entitled to $0.17 / mile.


Did you read that guy's entire post? I just did it's not hard at all. You're pointing to somebody's personal doctor's appointments he's referring to work related injuries. Not hard at all. Do you cut and paste often for a hobby?:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Karen carpenter said:


> Did you read that guy's entire post? I just did it's not hard at all. You're pointing to somebody's personal doctor's appointments he's referring to work related injuries. Not hard at all. Do you cut and paste often for a hobby?:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Perhaps you should reread his post. At no point did he mention workman's compensation. At no point did he mention the worker was injured on the job. At no point did he provide a link to support his claim. For all I can tell, the worker was injured on a fishing trip.



Karen carpenter said:


> Do you cut and paste often for a hobby?


Its called providing clarity while responding to different ideas or claims. Not hard at all.



Paul Vincent said:


> simplify this for you


Don't simplify, write clearler. If your wife is truly a judge, she should be embarrassed by your writing skill. Got a link to support your claim or should we take your word for it?

ps I was trying to be polite when I said you remembered the facts incorrectly. I could have called you a liar. Would that have simplified it for you?


----------



## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

stuber said:


> Setting rates, seeing trip details in advance of accepting, and being free from coercion and penalties for refusing trips are not "perks." These things are requirements if you wish to be considered an independent contractor. Control is the issue. Ride share drivers are misclassified employees. Vote NO on Prop 22 if you want to see the gig app companies actually fix their flawed business model.


 I couldn't agree more.


----------



## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Karen carpenter said:


> Are you being serious?
> 
> 
> Did you read proposition 22? If it passes it's 30 cents a mile. Did I get redirected to the stoners forum?


You don't get it, you don't get payed just .30 a mile you get payed the higher of the two, Prop 22 is like always having a guarantee pay going, you earn higher and you don't get Prop 22, you earn lower you get Prop 22. With my .84 a mile will be the same after Prop 22 but if I do a long pickup with a short trip then Prop 22 covers it. Do your self a favor and learn how it works before you reply again


----------



## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> _Going_ to?????....
> California entered those gates long ago and is deep in the bowels with no chance of making a U-turn.


There's always a chance. Not a big one, or a likely one, but a chance.



W00dbutcher said:


> What is this license I keep hearing a uber has to operate? They don't have a license to operate or they wouldn't be getting away with what they're doing.
> 
> Just saying


Specifically in CA they had a new transportation catergory created for them. It is a TNC lisence. It's a modified TCP license for a fleet of vehicles *that you don't own or maintain. *So if they ever achieved their pipe dream of attaining self driving cars, in CA at least, they would have to resubmit for TCP licenses for them (or possibly taxi).

And there may have been a clause added stating that a company couldn't have two types of licenses. Not sure about that.


----------



## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

bsliv said:


> Perhaps you should reread his post. At no point did he mention workman's compensation. At no point did he mention the worker was injured on the job. At no point did he provide a link to support his claim. For all I can tell, the worker was injured on a fishing trip.
> 
> Its called providing clarity while responding to different ideas or claims. Not hard at all.
> 
> ...


Workers comp judge, transporting injured Workers. In my post. Again what's your point? Your 17 cent post has nothing to do with what I posted. You have no point. You should be ashamed of yourself for being so obtuse.



bsliv said:


> I could have called you a liar. Would that have simplified it for you?


I could call you an idiot put that wouldn't be productive. Strange would be more accurate.


----------



## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

Greenfox said:


> California is going to hell.


Going? They are past at least the 5th Circle by now.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Greenfox said:


> California is going to hell.





Clothahump said:


> Going? They are past at least the 5th Circle by now.


Brother, you have NO idea.
And what's really sad is that 95% of the residents of this asylum don't even know it.
The temp has been turned up so gradually, that they can't feel that they are being cooked.

If I didn't have the job of my life right now, I'd be gone.
And, I'm getting ready anyway ... paying down debt, saving $.
The time will come, soon too, that this place will be uninhabitable.
I just hope that the other states will allow Californian refugees.

I am sitting in my house right now with a generator that has been providing power for the last two days.
Public utilities can't keep the lights on. 
We've become a third world country.


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> Oh God no!
> 
> See people, this is where "Florida Man" comes from.
> 
> They move here!


Why would anyone want to live in Florida over California just blows my mind. I wouldn't live in Florida if they had no rent.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

CJfrom619 said:


> Why would anyone want to live in Florida over California just blows my mind. I wouldn't live in Florida if they had no rent.


Fastest growing state in the Union, 1000 people per day move here. While I wish everyone felt like you, already too many idiots here, the value of my properties sure likes the growth!

No state income tax, I filled up today for $1.99 gal. We just won The Stanley Cup and have a shot at a world series ring. I can surf or dive 365 days a year. Honestly, the worst part about Florida is all the tourists and people moving here!


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> Fastest growing state in the Union, 1000 people per day move here. While I wish everyone felt like you, already too many idiots here, the value of my properties sure likes the growth!
> 
> No state income tax, I filled up today for $1.99 gal. We just won The Stanley Cup and have a shot at a world series ring. I can surf or dive 365 days a year. Honestly, the worst part about Florida is all the tourists and people moving here!


The humidity and mosquitoes alone make Florida unlivable. Been there many times and always leave thinking how can anyone live there.

Weather alone makes paying state tax in California worth it. Theres a reason why California is so expensive. Keeps everyone from moving here and keeps those that dont make money and work hard go live somewhere else.

Only complaint you here about CA= too expensive. Thats not a complaint.

The climate alone in Florida is terrible. I don't like the feeling of living in the Amazon jungle while mosquitoes fly into my mouth.

I don't know why you wanted to bring up sports? Lakers? And your little Florida baseball about to lose to a CA team?? Weird flex.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> And what's really sad is that 95% of the residents of this asylum don't even know it.





CJfrom619 said:


> Only complaint you here about CA= too expensive. Thats not a complaint.


Let me introduce you to one of the oblivious 95%.
Lives in Northern Mexico - and doesn't even know it.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Just don't move to florida expecting to make what you used to in California doing gig work,

Because you can't.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

stuber said:


> Many supporters of Prop 22 are buying the U/L threats and misinformation. I believe these threats and false choice narratives about flexibility are complete BS.


I am voting no to Uber's Law ( prop 22 ).

I will fight to modify AB5 to make it more reasonable, then let Uber comply.

Only way to be actual contractors is through a modified AB5 for all contractors, not a prop for just ride share.

If That doesn't work! Then this guy says it best below!


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Let me introduce you to one of the oblivious 95%.
> Lives in Northern Mexico - and doesn't even know it.


Call it what you want. I call it paradise.


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

bsliv said:


> Perhaps you should reread his post. At no point did he mention workman's compensation


There is no shame reading something and misunderstanding what is written especially if you're reading it on a phone screen, there's no honor attempting to belittle somebody for your lack of comprehension.



Paul Vincent said:


> Workers comp judge, transporting injured Workers. In my post. Again what's your point?


Some objects are too dense



NicFit said:


> You don't get it, you don't get payed just .30 a mile you get payed the higher of the two


Perhaps soon the scientists in my universe will devise a platform for me to visit yours


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

CJfrom619 said:


> The climate alone in Florida is terrible. I don't like the feeling of living in the Amazon jungle while mosquitoes fly into my mouth.


We even have 18 ft snakes!
https://www.winknews.com/2020/10/09...r-largest-burmese-python-captured-in-florida/


CJfrom619 said:


> I don't know why you wanted to bring up sports? Lakers? And your little Florida baseball about to lose to a CA team??


Wasn't a flex, just a statement. I lost $100.00 on the series. I had LA in 5.

Fl sports esp baseball & hockey get very little fan support. The Rays are a good team. We expect the 227 million dollar teams to do well, no one expects Florida or Tampa to do well. The Dodgers have two guys who will each make more next year, assuming a full season, than the everyone on the Rays combined this year. I think that's pretty cool. My point was, even though FL teams aren't big money teams, they are usually fun to watch and occasionally very good.

Losing the WS with the 3rd lowest payroll in mlb is quite an impressive feat. Losing the world series with a $225 million payroll, failure. Dodgers are 0-3 these last few years. right? < that may be a little bit of a flex.

On a side note, I used to watch the Dodgers quite a bit, I enjoyed Vin Skully's broadcasts and being an east coaster the Dodgers were on late, I fell asleep to Vin's quite a bit.

I'm a Marlins fan, they suck. I know they they suck. The whole world knows they suck. That they made the playoffs is impressive. They do have a lot of talent and won't suck to badly in the coming years.

I don't like or follow basketball. I know Miami won a few championships with LeBron and I think one with Shaq.

The heat and humidity, you get a little used to never 100%. The bugs, yeah they suck. We have frogs with suction cups on their feet, they stick to the doors and windows and jump at you when you try to open the door. They are slimy too, I hate them more than mosquitoes.

I dont think I could have handled moving here as a middle aged adult, no way. I've been here since I was 10.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Just don't move to florida


Sometimes less is more, Steve.


----------



## hooj (Aug 18, 2018)

Greenfox said:


> Well rideshare professor disagrees, so that's why I came 'out of my hole'...during this PLANNED organized partial shutdown of the u.s. economy *(source: world economic forum website) over a disease that has a survival rate *(if it's even real) of 99.987% **(source: cdc.gov)
> 
> Seems i was at least 90 to 95% right, but seeing everyone wear their ritualistic shame muzzles has definitely kept me in hiding... people are scary!


Planned shutdown? &#128580; 
You sound like a pax...


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> That's the funniest post I've seen in a while. I'm willing to bet anyone on here that if prop 22 passes, within 6 months some "perks " will be diminished. They will have a lame reason why and people will yawn and go about their partying. The courts will have already moved on.


There's no way Uber will be allowed to return to business-as-usual, regardless of what happens with Prop 22.

If Prop 22 passes and manages to hold up in court, the CA Assembly will go into action.

AB5 passed by a large majority and they'll be plenty of angry legislators led by Gonzalez who will impose major regulations against these companies.


----------



## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Karen carpenter said:


> There is no shame reading something and misunderstanding what is written especially if you're reading it on a phone screen, there's no honor attempting to belittle somebody for your lack of comprehension.
> 
> 
> Some objects are too dense
> ...


You are clueless still, here's Uber explaining it, try to read it very slowly and completely, maybe then you will get it. What happens is Uber will pay you as you complete each job like they do now at the current rates, after two weeks they'll do a review and if you don't get the minimums from Prop 22 then they will pay you the difference, if you make more you get nothing from Prop 22. They aren't changing the rates, they are making sure you earn at least Prop 22, if you earn more then you get nothing, you earn less they pay you the difference. Even a 6 year can figure it out, Prop 22 is the lowest they can reduce the rates to, but you can still get better pay from the market rates currently offered. If your area is is low paying then Prop 22 is what you will get, my area it's .36 a minute and .84 a mile, I earn that first then they double check with Prop 22 rates and if I didn't earn what Prop 22 rates are they pay me, if I earned more then I get nothing. They are not changing the rates everywhere, the markets still have individual rates. What universe are you living in where you can't figure this out?


----------



## Karen carpenter (Nov 7, 2017)

NicFit said:


> You are clueless still, here's Uber explaining it, try to read it very slowly and completely, maybe then you will get it. What happens is Uber will pay you as you complete each job like they do now at the current rates, after two weeks they'll do a review and if you don't get the minimums from Prop 22 then they will pay you the difference, if you make more you get nothing from Prop 22. They aren't changing the rates, they are making sure you earn at least Prop 22, if you earn more then you get nothing, you earn less they pay you the difference. Even a 6 year can figure it out, Prop 22 is the lowest they can reduce the rates to, but you can still get better pay from the market rates currently offered. If your area is is low paying then Prop 22 is what you will get, my area it's .36 a minute and .84 a mile, I earn that first then they double check with Prop 22 rates and if I didn't earn what Prop 22 rates are they pay me, if I earned more then I get nothing. They are not changing the rates everywhere, the markets still have individual rates. What universe are you living in where you can't figure this out?
> 
> View attachment 518945
> 
> View attachment 518946


Even if the scientist in my universe create a device to visit your universe I will decline


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Greenfox said:


> Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..
> 
> *(seeing your trip ahead of time, and most important..)
> 
> ...


It's just not "fair".


----------



## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Karen carpenter said:


> Even if the scientist in my universe create a device to visit your universe I will decline


So your that clueless you can't figure it out, go find a six year old to help explain it you, your universe has issues with reading comprehension


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> There's no way Uber will be allowed to return to business-as-usual, regardless of what happens with Prop 22.
> 
> If Prop 22 passes and manages to hold up in court, the CA Assembly will go into action.
> 
> AB5 passed by a large majority and they'll be plenty of angry legislators led by Gonzalez who will impose major regulations against these companies.


You may very well be right and I hope you are. Knowing what kind of sleaze bags they are, they will feel emboldened to squeeze the drivers a little more if 22 passes. Hopefully they get smacked around if that comes to pass.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I am voting no to Uber's Law ( prop 22 ).
> 
> I will fight to modify AB5 to make it more reasonable, then let Uber comply.
> 
> ...


Well Thank You. Most kind. I can't vote in California, but I would NO VOTE. AB5 is basically a simple solution to something that doesn't want simple solutions. It's unworkable, politically. So yes rewrite that thing.

But it's so important for workers everywhere that these gig app companies be held to employment standards. We have a US Dept of Labor being run by a Secretary who is opposed to workers. California conservative organizations, who mostly oppose labor, have also contributed heavily to the "YES" PR blitz. Most voters in California will see this in "what's-in-it-for-me-right-now" terms. Rightly so, I guess. But the future of work is being played out here. People should look further out.

I am an independent and I like that work status. I can say definitively, a person has to search hard to find work that answers to my needs as an independent, owner-operator. But that's okay. I want to run my own enterprise. The gig apps _could_ be far more geared towards smart operators who are empowered to make their their own business decisions. They haven't yet demonstrated much willingness to go there, however. Uber has experimented in California with app and policy changes. That's good. I'd like to see way more of that. And I'd like to see those policies implemented throughout their markets.

Then maybe I could use those apps. For the time being, I just can't. They're too controlling.

So NO is the best answer, for now. Then Uber/Lyft/etc. will have to confront these issues. Then we could see something better. A YES vote means just more of the same...and opens the door for more and more companies to act similarly.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

NicFit said:


> If your area is is low paying then Prop 22 is what you will get, my area it's .36 a minute and .84 a mile,


The problem is we know how ride-share works with these companies.

Prop 22 specifically says the current rate will not be guaranteed.

If there is very high unemployment and we have high immigration of no skill people, then it's free market BABY!

That means in the free market under Uber's Law ( prop 22 ), Uber will provide jobs to the desperate. If there is enough desperate people to work for lower rates, then Uber will have to do what businesses are meant to do.

Your views do not count the effects of high unemployment rates and migration policy.

Your one of the very very few people in this field that is ignoring reality that historically pay has gone down to what the market bares. Most drivers from a few years ago laugh at today's rates.

No sane driver believes the rates will not go lower, especially with high unemployment that will be around for at least a few years to come.

People will start Ubering for pennies, and you want to pretend Uber will not Lower rates in a free market when they can and should in a " free market".


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

stuber said:


> Well Thank You. Most kind. I can't vote in California, but I would NO VOTE. AB5 is basically a simple solution to something that doesn't want simple solutions. It's unworkable, politically. So yes rewrite that thing.
> 
> But it's so important for workers everywhere that these gig app companies be held to employment standards. We have a US Dept of Labor being run by a Secretary who is opposed to workers. California conservative organizations, who mostly oppose labor, have also contributed heavily to the "YES" PR blitz. Most voters in California will see this in "what's-in-it-for-me-right-now" terms. Rightly so, I guess. But the future of work is being played out here. People should look further out.
> 
> ...


AB5 best solution for workers in any State .. independent contractor it is better but real contractor not as Uber doing now controlling driver 100%like employee without any benefits and claim they are contactors


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

stuber said:


> We have a US Dept of Labor being run by a Secretary who is opposed to workers. California conservative organizations, who mostly oppose labor, have also contributed heavily to the "YES" PR blitz.


 Add Moscow Mitch's wife to that list. She is the Secretary of Transportation and most likely Uber's next board member. The you have CPUC, the state agency that "regulates" the rideshare. Yes campaign donated $2 million to Republican Party. I wonder how much Republican senators were to paid to promote 22. List goes on..


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> The you have CPUC, the state agency that "regulates" the rideshare.


Moscow Mitch!&#129315;&#128514;

The regulating body for transportation in C.A is called CPUC.

I watched a lecture by a Law Professor involved in the approval of Uber/Lyft permit.

She said at the hearing the Uber team was running the show, they basically were telling the regulators what's up and controlled the meeting.

She said it was clear Uber was allowed to set up the actual regulation. She said they are paid off and corrupt to the core, Uber's puppet.

Counties and cities are not allowed to regulate Uber/Lyft. Only CPUC, that's how Uber wins control. They buy out the regulator and block any other agency from interfering.

They do this state by state, nation by nation.
Corruption at its finest.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

stuber said:


> We can disagree about predictions of what might happen. Again, I see ICs as the best solution. But Prop 22 doesn't address the core issues. I agree that AB5 is unworkable, but it does force the issue.
> 
> These experiments by Uber with giving drivers in California more control are a direct result of the AB5 threat. Where were these experiments before AB5? They didn't exist. Why?
> 
> ...


It's tic-tac-toe; and they are doing their level best to convince you that going first and taking the middle square is the worst option. Prop 22 starts them with the middle square for free and gives them the first move as well.



Boca Ratman said:


> Fastest growing state in the Union, 1000 people per day move here. While I wish everyone felt like you, already too many idiots here, the value of my properties sure likes the growth!
> 
> No state income tax, I filled up today for $1.99 gal. We just won The Stanley Cup and have a shot at a world series ring. I can surf or dive 365 days a year. Honestly, the worst part about Florida is all the tourists and people moving here!


Hurricanes are much more frequent and destructive than earthquakes. Care to revise your statement?


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> Hurricanes are much more frequent and destructive than earthquakes. Care to revise your statement?


No, I didn't mention anything about either.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> No, I didn't mention anything about either.


So, tourists are worse than hurricanes. Ok then. Ive had some pax like that, I can believe it.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> So, tourists are worse than hurricanes. Ok then. Ive had some pax like that, I can believe it.


Oh hell yes! And when I say tourists I'm also meaning part time residents, snow birds.

I've been here 40 years or so, and my area has had a few hurricanes. You board up, you clean up after and life goes back to normal in a few days.

Tourists, never stop.


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## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Brother, you have NO idea.
> And what's really sad is that 95% of the residents of this asylum don't even know it.
> The temp has been turned up so gradually, that they can't feel that they are being cooked.
> 
> ...


We've got Californians by the busload migrating to Texas. Sadly, they are bringing the same lamebrain mindset that ruined California with them.

The hell with a Covid-19 vaccine. I want a vaccine that will cure liberalism.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Clothahump said:


> We've got Californians by the busload migrating to Texas. Sadly, they are bringing the same lamebrain mindset that ruined California with them.
> 
> The hell with a Covid-19 vaccine. I want a vaccine that will cure liberalism.


You mean you want South Korean vaccine that it cure you forever to send you to grave yard ..&#128512;&#128512;&#128512;


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## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

Gby said:


> You mean you want South Korean vaccine that it cure you forever to send you to grave yard ..&#128512;&#128512;&#128512;


I said nothing of the sort. Please stop trying to tell me and others what *I* think. I'll tell you what I think - and I did.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> You are clueless still, here's Uber explaining it, try to read it very slowly and completely, maybe then you will get it. What happens is Uber will pay you as you complete each job like they do now at the current rates, after two weeks they'll do a review and if you don't get the minimums from Prop 22 then they will pay you the difference, if you make more you get nothing from Prop 22. They aren't changing the rates, they are making sure you earn at least Prop 22, if you earn more then you get nothing, you earn less they pay you the difference. Even a 6 year can figure it out, Prop 22 is the lowest they can reduce the rates to, but you can still get better pay from the market rates currently offered. If your area is is low paying then Prop 22 is what you will get, my area it's .36 a minute and .84 a mile, I earn that first then they double check with Prop 22 rates and if I didn't earn what Prop 22 rates are they pay me, if I earned more then I get nothing. They are not changing the rates everywhere, the markets still have individual rates. What universe are you living in where you can't figure this out?
> 
> View attachment 518945
> 
> ...


Here's your problem,

"_*here's Uber explaining it*_, try to read it very slowly and completely, maybe then you will get it."

You trust Uber to explain ANYTHING.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> Here's your problem,
> 
> "_*here's Uber explaining it*_, try to read it very slowly and completely, maybe then you will get it."
> 
> You trust Uber to explain ANYTHING.


Yeah, I've given up on this, she just didn't get it and I know she isn't the only one thinking that the rates are going to change to what Prop 22 is. I figure Uber has to explain it at a level that the average driver with barely any edjumacation can understand it and that maybe she can figure it out coming from Uber but I guess not. Some people only see their little narrow view and not understand the whole picture &#129335;‍♂


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> Yeah, I've given up on this, she just didn't get it and I know she isn't the only one thinking that the rates are going to change to what Prop 22 is. I figure Uber has to explain it at a level that the average driver with barely any edjumacation can understand it and that maybe she can figure it out coming from Uber but I guess not. Some people only see their little narrow view and not understand the whole picture &#129335;‍♂


Are we reading the same post?


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> It will do you no good. F*ub*a*r *and Gr*yft* do not use K-Y®, CVS brand or even Crisco™ as it is. If you try to bring your own, they take it away from you before they make you drop 'em and bend over.


Postings like this are vulgar and not funny.
May two riders accuse you of harassment or not accepting service animals.
After deactivation from the two R/S companies, hopefully you will abandon this forum.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

observer said:


> Here's your problem,
> 
> "_*here's Uber explaining it*_, try to read it very slowly and completely, maybe then you will get it."
> 
> You trust Uber to explain ANYTHING.


I'm the one who never trust UBER because they broking all. Promises change agreement over agreement they is intimidating tactics today they asked in one hour to take 7 time selfie only to piss me of


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

it doesnt look like prop 22 will pass its leading 46-42 in the latest poll but it needs 50% to pass, looks like uber will come to an end in CA. No more flexibility, in Switzerland the courts forced uber to go employee, 77% drivers lost jobs the remaining few 50% or more plan to quit they hate the loss of flexibility.

Biden wants to bring this national to kill millions of jobs all across America. Democrats have gone mad? Think so.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

NicFit said:


> Learn what it really is


You have a big surprise coming when it passes!!!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Judge and Jury said:


> May two riders accuse you of harassment or not accepting service animals.














dnlbaboof said:


> its leading 46-42 in the latest poll but it needs 50% to pass


How do you vote on ballot questions in California? Is it a simple "Yes" or "No" or do they give you an "undecided" choice?

Does it have to be fifty per-cent of total turnout or fifty per-cent of votes cast one way or the other?

California had about twelve-point-seven million voters turn out in 2018. Let us consider that fourteen million show up at the polls in California for 2020. Six million vote "yes"; six million vote "no"; two million leave it blank. What happens?


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> View attachment 519268
> 
> 
> How do you vote on ballot questions in California? Is it a simple "Yes" or "No" or do they give you an "undecided" choice?
> ...


simple yes or no if you leave it blank I dont think its counted in any way, all those in other states beware Biden has tweeted his support to ab5 and wants to make it national law


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

dnlbaboof said:


> simple yes or no


Thank you.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> Are we reading the same post?


That was me trying to reply to someone else the original post, then you replied and came into a chat so I'm probably helping the confusion &#128578;


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> View attachment 519268
> 
> 
> How do you vote on ballot questions in California? Is it a simple "Yes" or "No" or do they give you an "undecided" choice?
> ...


50% +1 of votes cast on the intitiative. If only 7 people voted on the initiative then whichever side got 4 or more would win.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Clothahump said:


> We've got Californians by the busload migrating to Texas. Sadly, they are bringing the same lamebrain mindset that ruined California with them.
> 
> The hell with a Covid-19 vaccine. I want a vaccine that will cure liberalism.


I been planning on leaving Cali in the spring - if I make it.
A relative in my target new home made me promise that I'd leave the commie voting patterns at the border.
I agreed.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> That was me trying to reply to someone else the original post, then you replied and came into a chat so I'm probably helping the confusion &#128578;


Everything on UBER platform are confusion &#128512;. Uber took all driver out of their shoes



NicFit said:


> And Prop 22 is what the minimum they will pay you if the ride turns out to be a dud, like a long pickup with a short trip because there are idiot drivers out there that do that. I won't take long pickups or minimum fare trips so I'll never see a penny from Prop 22. Learn what it really is, that is the safety net of something isn't right, the rates are higher on what I'll actually earn, I'll earn .36 a minute and .84 a mile for X, if somehow my trips don't earn the Prop 22 math then Uber pays me extra


I been experiment that sheet with long pick up and short ride . Uber don't give ss..t how much you spend for long pick up ..since that I'm not taking no more Long pick up


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> Everything on UBER platform are confusion &#128512;. Uber took all driver out of their shoes
> 
> 
> I been experiment that sheet with long pick up and short ride . Uber don't give ss..t how much you spend for long pick up ..since that I'm not taking no more Long pick up


I'm with you, 5 minutes when I'm downtown and 10 min outside of downtown, long pickups are just not worth it since I'll get another ping in less time then it would of took to get to the long pickup that's a lot closer

I'm not fond of these Prop 22 rate guarantee either, I probably won't see anything from it, it needs to be the rate the market is, we probably should be paid the entire time we have an accepted ping. Though AB5 isn't the solution and Prop 22 doesn't go far enough. At least we can get more Props and amendments to Prop 22, AB5 is game over to stay an independent contractor and that unacceptable


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

NicFit said:


> I'm with you, 5 minutes when I'm downtown and 10 min outside of downtown, long pickups are just not worth it since I'll get another ping in less time then it would of took to get to the long pickup that's a lot closer
> 
> I'm not fond of these Prop 22 rate guarantee either, I probably won't see anything from it, it needs to be the rate the market is, we probably should be paid the entire time we have an accepted ping. Though AB5 isn't the solution and Prop 22 doesn't go far enough. At least we can get more Props and amendments to Prop 22, AB5 is game over to stay an independent contractor and that unacceptable


If AB5 are not passing through UBER will never keep their promised .they always will find something to manipulate drivers ..


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Gby said:


> If AB5 are not passing through UBER will never keep their promised .they always will find something to manipulate drivers ..


Yes but AB5 also screws us, they'll charge the surges and pocket it all so then what? We just need something so Uber can't screw us and still keep independent contractors status


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

stuber said:


> We can disagree about predictions of what might happen. Again, I see ICs as the best solution. But Prop 22 doesn't address the core issues. I agree that AB5 is unworkable, but it does force the issue.
> 
> These experiments by Uber with giving drivers in California more control are a direct result of the AB5 threat. Where were these experiments before AB5? They didn't exist. Why?
> 
> ...


the problem is ab5 makes it nearly impossible to be an IC in CA, one of the criteria is that the the job must be outside uber cores business, which courts have rejected. Unless you get put on the laundry list of exemptions, like doctors, lawyers, writers get with ab5. There are literally over 60 exemptions for this insane law. Its clear the mad democrats just have a personal vendetta against rideshare.

In the real world, like in switzerland uber when forced to be employees it goes to hell 77% drivers fired, the rest are miserable on a shift and want to quit.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

dnlbaboof said:


> the problem is ab5 makes it nearly impossible to be an IC in CA, one of the criteria is that the the job must be outside uber cores business, which courts have rejected. Unless you get put on the laundry list of exemptions, like doctors, lawyers, writers get with ab5. There are literally over 60 exemptions for this insane law. Its clear the mad democrats just have a personal vendetta against rideshare.
> 
> In the real world, like in switzerland uber when forced to be employees it goes to hell 77% drivers fired, the rest are miserable on a shift and want to quit.


This it is what Uber deserve AB5 then Uber become miserable company then they diged their own grave ..Non government will let them to operate business at drivers expenses forever and rise billions .it is like they roobery workers in mass


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> Yes but AB5 also screws us, they'll charge the surges and pocket it all so then what? We just need something so Uber can't screw us and still keep independent contractors status


Does Prop 22 guarantee they won't charge the surges and pocket it all?

Prop 22 doesn't guarantee you independent contractor status. It guarantees you that Uber will set all the rules with zero input from drivers or the state.

Like its been doing since day one.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> Does Prop 22 guarantee they won't charge the surges and pocket it all?
> 
> Prop 22 doesn't guarantee you independent contractor status. It guarantees you that Uber will set all the rules with zero input from drivers or the state.


No but Uber has committed to 75/25% fare split transparency. Lyft hasn't and no idea what they charge and what they keep so I'm probably going to stop driving for them. Uber can try to remove these thing but there will be a backlash and a new Prop to amend it


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

observer said:


> Does Prop 22 guarantee they won't charge the surges and pocket it all?


In pro..22 it doesn't say Uber will not going to change the agreement as the get along with AB5 drivers should understand AB5 are for their interest even if are minimum wages with the benefits it will be more then $30 p/h


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> No but Uber has committed to 75/25% fare split transparency. Lyft hasn't and no idea what they charge and what they keep so I'm probably going to stop driving for them. Uber can try to remove these thing but there will be a backlash and a new Prop to amend it


Committed where?


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

observer said:


> Committed where?


They did that committed in NYC then after City implemented minimum payment Uber scraped the agreement and now are taking up to 70%from drivers fare ..Uber are using different tactics in different city then after they bring in your city if you not suing them


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Gby said:


> They did that committed in NYC then after City implemented minimum payment Uber scraped the agreement and now are taking up to 70%from drivers fare ..Uber are using different tactics in different city then after they bring in your city if you not suing them


I don't see where they commit to a 75/25 split in Prop 22. Only a 120% of minimum wage during "engaged time".


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> Committed where?


California, they did that some time at the beginning of this year or end of last year as part of their commitment to keep us independent contractors, around the same time they started showing us the full trip details on pings. It's true nothing is in Prop 22 but Uber heard some of the major complaints that made them feel like employees and changed a few things. Lyft hasn't done none of the changes so it's not required but if they take it away after Prop 22 Uber will get a backlash. What we need to do is complain to Lyft and tell them that they need to make the same changes


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

NicFit said:


> Yes but AB5 also screws us, they'll charge the surges and pocket it all so then what? We just need something so Uber can't screw us and still keep independent contractors status


Ahhh, I see !!!
You want your cake - and eat it too.
Yea, me too.
Good luck with that.

I have strived for that goal my whole life, now I just say '****kit, lets eat cake.'


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> California, they did that some time at the beginning of this year or end of last year as part of their commitment to keep us independent contractors, around the same time they started showing us the full trip details on pings. It's true nothing is in Prop 22 but Uber heard some of the major complaints that made them feel like employees and changed a few things. Lyft hasn't done none of the changes so it's not required but if they take it away after Prop 22 Uber will get a backlash. What we need to do is complain to Lyft and tell them that they need to make the same changes


And you believe Uber will keep their word?

Uber doesn't care about backlash after Prop 22.

Backlash from the state, hands are tied they can't do diddley squat.

Backlash from the voters, they don't care enough to spend money on a new initiative to take back what they just gave Uber two or four years ago (if 22 passes).

Backlash from the drivers? Uber does not care what drivers want or think.

Prop 22 gives Uber ALL the cards.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> And you believe Uber will keep their word?
> 
> Uber doesn't care about backlash after Prop 22.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's not the drivers they care about the backlash, if they take away what we got the other states will do a like AB5 and then if Uber tries similar to Prop 22 it'll fail miserably since everyone will know Uber did an act and won't keep the changes. Then once a state does force Uber to be employees it'll be a mess or Uber will just leave a market. Then comes the riders complaining and it'll end up a bigger mess. It'll probably be the end of Uber and then you'll have tons of unemployed drivers instead of what we have now. The biggest factor for me is the jobs, if Prop 22 passes 100% have a job, if it fails then 20-30% have jobs. Why would anyone want to take away their means of income right now when we should be figuring ways to keep as many people employed. Seems kinda selfish of people wanting to Prop 22 to fail when it means ~150k people now are unemployed. Kung-flu has killed so many jobs that we shouldn't be killing even more jobs


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

NicFit said:


> Yeah, it's not the drivers they care about the backlash, if they take away what we got the other states will do a like AB5 and then if Uber tries similar to Prop 22 it'll fail miserably since everyone will know Uber did an act and won't keep the changes. Then once a state does force Uber to be employees it'll be a mess or Uber will just leave a market. Then comes the riders complaining and it'll end up a bigger mess. It'll probably be the end of Uber and then you'll have tons of unemployed drivers instead of what we have now. The biggest factor for me is the jobs, if Prop 22 passes 100% have a job, if it fails then 20-30% have jobs. Why would anyone want to take away their means of income right now when we should be figuring ways to keep as many people employed. Seems kinda selfish of people wanting to Prop 22 to fail when it means ~150k people now are unemployed. Kung-flu has killed so many jobs that we shouldn't be killing even more jobs


Seems to me a new player in the market could use the other 70-80% of drivers that would be out of work. Heck, they could even follow the law and make them true ICs. Imagine how many of U/L 's new employees would stick around if that happened!


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

somedriverguy said:


> Seems to me a new player in the market could use the other 70-80% of drivers that would be out of work. Heck, they could even follow the law and make them true ICs. Imagine how many of U/L 's new employees would stick around if that happened!


My market can support all the drivers, maybe on slow times it could be 10-20% less so overall there's enough work for everyone. As for making driver true ICs they can't according to California law because the law says they are part of Uber's core business. No matter what Uber has tried they can't convince California to keep driver ICs. Hence Prop 22 is an exception for it. Honestly I already feel like an IC, I can choose my jobs, set my own rates, choose when I want to work, my vehicle can be how I want aside from a couple of regulations, no one says how to do my jobs. Not sure what else is missing


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

NicFit said:


> My market can support all the drivers, maybe on slow times it could be 10-20% less so overall there's enough work for everyone. As for making driver true ICs they can't according to California law because the law says they are part of Uber's core business. No matter what Uber has tried they can't convince California to keep driver ICs. Hence Prop 22 is an exception for it. Honestly I already feel like an IC, I can choose my jobs, set my own rates, choose when I want to work, my vehicle can be how I want aside from a couple of regulations, no one says how to do my jobs. Not sure what else is missing


Minimum fare. Honestly, the only reason I set my multiplier so high is so I don't have to reject 95% of the incoming pings.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

somedriverguy said:


> Minimum fare. Honestly, the only reason I set my multiplier so high is so I don't have to reject 95% of the incoming pings.


So then that's your minimum fare, you just set your own rate, though it would be nice to be able to set a threshold so you don't have to have as high of surge


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

NicFit said:


> So then that's your minimum fare, you just set your own rate, though it would be nice to be able to set a threshold so you don't have to have as high of surge


Yeah, it's $5 shorties and $100 airport runs or $10 shorties and $200 airport runs. Cant have $10 shorties and $100 airport runs or the Universe might implode.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

NicFit said:


> So then that's your minimum fare, you just set your own rate, though it would be nice to be able to set a threshold so you don't have to have as high of surge


I would like to see an option of no pings when the request is more than 12-15 minutes away. My A/R rate is pretty high since all my rides come in at 3.0x or higher and worth taking. But there have been a few 5.0x pings I declined because they are 15 minutes or more away and are 1-2 mile rides which even at 5.0x it's only $13.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I would like to see an option of no pings when the request is more than 12-15 minutes away. My A/R rate is pretty high since all my rides come in at 3.0x or higher and worth taking. But there have been a few 5.0x pings I declined because they are 15 minutes or more away and are 1-2 mile rides which even at 5.0x it's only $13.


Yeah, they need to make several different options, I'd like different ride types to have different multipliers. Your feature would be nice, no 15 minute drive for a $13 fare. My market doesn't have an A/R so I don't really care if I reject a couple of those


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

22 passes all the perks remain. 22 fails, they all go away. Well, except full into 'demands' no reason not to show all the trip info if we have no option to decline. Right?


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> 22 passes all the perks remain.


In addition to that, drivers will get $1,500 bonus each for Uber's victory.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> In addition to that, drivers will get $1,500 bonus each for Uber's victory.


I know I've been absent for the last month or so, but truely have no idea what that means.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> I know I've been absent for the last month or so, but truely have no idea what that means.


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## oldnavyht3 (Jul 17, 2019)

So with all this driving does any of this go towards retirement or social security?


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## awdgator (Mar 23, 2018)

Greenfox said:


> Rideshare professor swears that if 22 passes, uber is going to take away all the 'perks'..
> 
> *(seeing your trip ahead of time, and most important..)
> 
> ...


LOL, you dont get to set your fare here in Florida and will never get 45-50 bucks per ride. 5-10 is average


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

stuber said:


> Setting rates, seeing trip details in advance of accepting, and being free from coercion and penalties for refusing trips are not "perks." These things are requirements if you wish to be considered an independent contractor. Control is the issue. Ride share drivers are misclassified employees. Vote NO on Prop 22 if you want to see the gig app companies actually fix their flawed business model.


None if that matters anymore needing a 7/8 majority to make changes they are free to continue business as usual


----------

