# Food delivery needs new tipping guidelines



## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

My understanding (correct me if I am mistaken) is that food delivery customers are prompted to tip a percentage of the total order amount.

This doesn't seem right to me because in most cases (unless it's a really large, heavy order) the amount they pay for the food really has nothing to do with is. 

The order percentage convention applies to waiting tables because the size of the order generally corresponds to how much work is involved. This can obviously vary a lot, but let's say if 4 people are eating, that's roughly twice the work or serving 2 and the bill probably reflects that in the total order amount. So tipping a percentage of that amount usually makes sense.

But food delivery does not work that way, at all. The time or difficulty involved in completing an order usually has very little to do with the total amount of food ordered.

I think the apps should prompt for higher tips based on difficulty. A few simple questions or already known factors could determine if they are eligible (large apartment complex, parking downtown, restaurant known for long wait times, long delivery distance, dead area, bad weather, previous reports of issues by drivers.) 

You can try to cherry pick to avoid some of these problems, but it doesn't always work. There are bound to be surprises. 

Gig companies do not want us to cherry pick and they have tried all sorts of stupid ways to get us to stop. I think they need a new strategy. I see dead gig orders thrown away at restaurants all the time because no one wants to pick them up. Sadly it also hurts the restaurants. It will hurt us all in the long run. 

The actual rates should be higher to begin with and yes they are shafting us. But the reason orders get rejected is usually something specific to the order or the customer's location. If the customer wants to pay me more it will may overcome that reason.

The current model is not teaching customers to tip properly. I know there are some who are cheap and probably nothing will motivate them to tip more or even to tip at all. But I have found some are just clueless. They don't really understand how this service works so they don't know how to tip appropriately.

The gig companies need to start educating customers on the true value of this service. People do not naturally understand the value of anything, they have to learn. A few simple prompts in the app could resolve a lot of issues. 

"We noticed your order may have an increased level of difficulty. Our drivers are independent contractors and your tip is a bid for their service. Your order may be rejected if the payment amount is too low to cover the driver's expenses. Would you like to increase your tip amount to ensure that you receive service?"

(I can dream can't I?)


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

goobered said:


> prompted to tip a percentage of the total order amount


well, sure. but the customer can do 'custom' and change it. I always tip, but I refuse to tip on the del, service and tax amounts. I tip on the FOOD amount, so always select custom.


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## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

On doordash it asks me if I want to leave a $2, 3, 4 or custom tip. I wish they would change the options to $5 or custom.


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

or if DD would pay us the correct amount and then add the tip instead they are 

subtilizing and only giving 2 or three bucks.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

$25 per order, flat rate + 3-5% yearly raise, to compensate for inflation.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

goobered said:


> My understanding (correct me if I am mistaken) is that food delivery customers are prompted to tip a percentage of the total order amount.
> 
> This doesn't seem right to me because in most cases (unless it's a really large, heavy order) the amount they pay for the food really has nothing to do with is.
> 
> ...


[


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## UberPuppetGirl (Jul 6, 2019)

You have to be caring about the customer's experience. From pick up to drop off. It seems silly that it's often just a cheese burger but it helps alot to have a nice outlook. Also having a bag and keeping the food warm is very important.

Also no matter what a customer tips if they tip, even rounding out a dollar with change shouldn't be bashed. Most times people pay from checking and might worry about overdrafting. 
The worse thing by far is bashing customers for using the service. Even if someone spends $10 for a $7 order from a few blocks away. That is what they wanted to do! Getting dressed, getting to the place to buy the food or beverage then getting back home in ppls busy lives. Is often worth the $10 to just get it delivered, even curb side.

You have so many choices especially if you don't live near lot's of restaurants.

So be kinder in your opinions and it's better to dress like a food worker not for a night out on the town unless your in an exclusive trendy area like ppl who deliver to Miley Cyrus or JZ. Be sporty and wear dark colors either top or bottom. You get more tips.
Scooter guys need to work on that part as Im sure this effects their tip potential what they wear.
Lastly Say, Thank you every time and Enjoy Your Meal or Order "every time"!
👍🙋


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

UberPuppetGirl said:


> You have to be caring about the customer's experience. From pick up to drop off. It seems silly that it's often just a cheese burger but it helps alot to have a nice outlook. Also having a bag and keeping the food warm is very important.
> 
> Also no matter what a customer tips if they tip, even rounding out a dollar with change shouldn't be bashed. Most times people pay from checking and might worry about overdrafting.
> The worse thing by far is bashing customers for using the service. Even if someone spends $10 for a $7 order from a few blocks away. That is what they wanted to do! Getting dressed, getting to the place to buy the food or beverage then getting back home in ppls busy lives. Is often worth the $10 to just get it delivered, even curb side.
> ...


Thank you Dara for that public service announcement from Uber.


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

UberPuppetGirl said:


> You have to be caring about the customer's experience. From pick up to drop off. It seems silly that it's often just a cheese burger but it helps alot to have a nice outlook. Also having a bag and keeping the food warm is very important.
> 
> Also no matter what a customer tips if they tip, even rounding out a dollar with change shouldn't be bashed. Most times people pay from checking and might worry about overdrafting.
> The worse thing by far is bashing customers for using the service. Even if someone spends $10 for a $7 order from a few blocks away. That is what they wanted to do! Getting dressed, getting to the place to buy the food or beverage then getting back home in ppls busy lives. Is often worth the $10 to just get it delivered, even curb side.
> ...


Thanks for the lube, I'm sure it will help the next time a customer shafts me big.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

UberPuppetGirl said:


> You have to be caring about the customer's experience. From pick up to drop off. It seems silly that it's often just a cheese burger but it helps alot to have a nice outlook. Also having a bag and keeping the food warm is very important.
> 
> Also no matter what a customer tips if they tip, even rounding out a dollar with change shouldn't be bashed. Most times people pay from checking and might worry about overdrafting.
> The worse thing by far is bashing customers for using the service. Even if someone spends $10 for a $7 order from a few blocks away. That is what they wanted to do! Getting dressed, getting to the place to buy the food or beverage then getting back home in ppls busy lives. Is often worth the $10 to just get it delivered, even curb side.
> ...


Your delivery attire has nothing to do with tips.


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## NYUber123 (Jan 15, 2018)

Woohaa said:


> Your delivery attire has nothing to do with tips.


Exactly. Most of the time, the tip is added when the order is placed and before they can see what you have on.
Based on her previous posts, Dara's assistant just likes to make excuses for the eaters.


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

This guy gets it. The gig companies need to educate the customers on why tipping is so important.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

DoorDash recently changed this. The suggested tip is based on level of difficulty/effort, which it actually says on the consumer side. However, since it's started doing this, it's told me the suggested tip is like $8 for a suburban pick-up/delivery with half empty parking lots on both ends of the run that is less than TWO miles of driving. I just adjust the tip, but I'm sure this tactic of suggesting an insanely high tip p*sses off some consumers and causes them to tip zero (taking it out on the driver). 

I may be "wrong", in thinking that's too high of a tip, but that's actually a lot more than I'd tip for the same food (usually ~$12 orders) if I dined in and a server had to deal with me for an hour. I know a server actually gets to enjoy my company for that amount of time, when a driver does not, but that only goes so far to bridge the gap...😉 

For deliveries, I tip a standard amount, depending on pick-up/drop-off but not based on the value of the food I order. DD needs to step up and pay better (as do all the other delivery and RS services). When I'm a RS pax, I tip in the same manner depending on "difficulty", which is generally higher than the standard 15-20% of the fare.


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## BogusServiceAnimal (Oct 28, 2019)

goobered said:


> My understanding (correct me if I am mistaken) is that food delivery customers are prompted to tip a percentage of the total order amount.
> 
> This doesn't seem right to me because in most cases (unless it's a really large, heavy order) the amount they pay for the food really has nothing to do with is.
> 
> ...


some people have money to burn and are happy to be generous for the service.


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> DoorDash recently changed this. The suggested tip is based on level of difficulty/effort, which it actually says on the consumer side. However, since it's started doing this, it's told me the suggested tip is like $8 for a suburban pick-up/delivery with half empty parking lots on both ends of the run that is less than TWO miles of driving. I just adjust the tip, but I'm sure this tactic of suggesting an insanely high tip p*sses off some consumers and causes them to tip zero (taking it out on the driver).


Thanks for sharing, that's good to know DoorDash is doing that. I can't see that it helps because most of the offers I get on DD are $2-5 total.

I know an $8 tip might sound insanely high, I would balk at paying that myself, but honest to God after expenses it still does not leave a lot left over. It's insanely expensive to use your own vehicle doing this. Also very, very risky.

It just doesn't compare in any way to tipping wait staff...for one thing they are not using their car to bring food to your table. For another, they can wait several tables at the same time. This is more like a personal courier/errand service.

Even when the delivery distance is short, and parking is easy, we deserve to be paid something for our time.

Yes the gig companies should pay us more...but they would have to pass that cost on to the customer. Higher delivery fees, or higher tips, take your pick.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

goobered said:


> Thanks for sharing, that's good to know DoorDash is doing that. I can't see that it helps because most of the offers I get on DD are $2-5 total.
> 
> I know an $8 tip might sound insanely high, I would balk at paying that myself, but honest to God after expenses it still does not leave a lot left over. It's insanely expensive to use your own vehicle doing this. Also very, very risky.
> 
> ...


I guess I look at it like this: I have never been tipped $8 on a two mile ride when my "cargo" has been people (and I also use my own car). Base pay needs to be higher, to compensate for use of your car, etc. If you hire a courier, you pay a fee and may or may not tip on top of that; most consumers are already paying a fee for the delivery.

You can't rely on the goodness of strangers (i.e., tips) to make a profit because we all know you could get stiffed more times than you get tipped - and these companies need to take responsibility to provide that fair compensation. If that means raising fees to do it, so be it. If they go out of business, that just means they have a flawed business model. No consumer looks at the word "tip" for a delivery and thinks it's needed for a driver to break even or make any profit, because that's not what a tip is supposed to be for in a delivery setting, it's supposed to be EXTRA compensation. &#129300;

The companies realize the model is flawed, and have tried to make changes to make a better profit, which is detrimental to the people trying to make a living. There are always going to be people that either don't understand the economics of being a driver and/or people desperate for even a couple bucks that are going to cause a "race to the bottom". I honestly don't know that the model is sustainable in the long term as it stands. &#128563;

I think a lot of consumers could get behind paying a company a normal amount for a delivery, and providing a tip on top, if they knew delivery drivers would be fairly compensated. The only issue with that is that it would probably have to be a local business with very little overhead (re: little to no rent costs and no unnecessary/over compensated staff). The problem with that is it won't last long because the owner will sell to one of these larger companies once it has enough market share. &#128530;

These are just my opinions, and I'm not an economist, so I could also be completely off base on my assumptions of what *might* happen. &#128513;


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## tc49821 (Oct 26, 2017)

I read a site it suggested 15 percent or $3 which ever is higher. Basically on small orders tip at least $3.

Two tables can have two different prices. It just maybe one got steak or high end seafood ,it's really the same amount of work for the server. Maybe the cook is working harder.

I think some customer might just tip more for bad weather. Uber takes about 20 to 30 percent of the order and charges a service fee. Simply more of that should go to the driver. Especially on long distance,give the driver all of the delivery fees.


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I guess I look at it like this: I have never been tipped $8 on a two mile ride when my "cargo" has been people (and I also use my own car). Base pay needs to be higher, to compensate for use of your car, etc. If you hire a courier, you pay a fee and may or may not tip on top of that; most consumers are already paying a fee for the delivery.


I used to do rideshare too so I get it. It involves all the same risks of driving for delivery plus many more, plus the wear and tear to the inside of your car. It should pay more and would be nice if tips were better.

But here's the thing...in my experience, you can do several more 2 mile rideshare trips in an hour, than you can do delivery trips. Delivery is much more time consuming.

With rideshare you only have to wait about 5 minutes for a passenger and you still get paid for no shows. Whereas you never know how long the wait time will be at a restaurant, could be as much as 30 minutes or more. You don't get paid if you have to cancel because the wait is too long.

Uber compensates a little something for wait time (but it's iffy and kind of mysterious, and still doesn't really make up for the lost time when you could be taking other deliveries.) But GH, DD, and PM do not give anything for wait time, so you hope that the tip will make up for it. But there's an obvious problem here since customers tend to want to tip more for shorter wait times, and less or nothing for a long wait.

A big part of why we accept/decline/cancel orders has to do with wait time at the restaurant, the location of the restaurant, and how far away we are from other restaurants after dropping off the order.

A customer might live 2 miles away from the restaurant, but the driver might have to drive 4 miles to get there, and 6 miles back to an area where they can get another order. 10 dead miles for 2 paid miles? No freakin way.

I decline orders all the time where the customer lives less than a mile away from the restaurant, but I have to drive so far to get there it is not worth it.

I don't know if consumers would want to pay the kind of delivery fees that would be necessary to compensate us fairly (especially to include wait time, dead miles, and time when you are on standby.) I do think some areas should have a surcharge for being too far out, or just double the rates if you have to drive round trip. Rideshare should do the same thing and double the rates for long trips.



tc49821 said:


> Two tables can have two different prices. It just maybe one got steak or high end seafood ,it's really the same amount of work for the server. Maybe the cook is working harder.


True, but in general, the bill is proportional to how many people ordered food. That usually makes very little difference in delivery.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

goobered said:


> But here's the thing...in my experience, you can do several more 2 mile rideshare trips in an hour, than you can do delivery trips. Delivery is much more time consuming.


But, less than half of RS passengers tip, and when they do, a lot of the time it is $1. opsies:



goobered said:


> With rideshare you only have to wait about 5 minutes for a passenger and you still get paid for no shows. Whereas you never know how long the wait time will be at a restaurant, could be as much as 30 minutes or more. You don't get paid if you have to cancel because the wait is too long.
> 
> Uber compensates a little something for wait time (but it's iffy and kind of mysterious, and still doesn't really make up for the lost time when you could be taking other deliveries.) But GH, DD, and PM do not give anything for wait time, so you hope that the tip will make up for it. But there's an obvious problem here since customers tend to want to tip more for shorter wait times, and less or nothing for a long wait.


True. I actually monitor this. Interestingly enough, yesterday, my DD order went through FOUR drivers (I have only ever seen it reassign to a second driver, never a third, and definitely not a fourth). The fourth one made it to the restaurant and was there forever. I realized that there must have been some issue with the order (it was a Qdoba that was at a stand-alone location, so it should have been a simple pickup). I had already set my tip in the app and DD doesn't let you adjust it after it is set. I only had $3 in cash on me, but I took it out anticipating to give my last $3 to the driver. Well, something must have been REALLY wrong, because my order ended up being cancelled. I have NEVER once had this happen with DD and I must have ordered from them hundreds of times. I might be weird, but I actually felt HORRIBLE for the driver because I knew what that meant for him. *confusion*



goobered said:


> A big part of why we accept/decline/cancel orders has to do with wait time at the restaurant, the location of the restaurant, and how far away we are from other restaurants after dropping off the order.
> 
> A customer might live 2 miles away from the restaurant, but the driver might have to drive 4 miles to get there, and 6 miles back to an area where they can get another order. 10 dead miles for 2 paid miles? No freakin way.
> 
> I decline orders all the time where the customer lives less than a mile away from the restaurant, but I have to drive so far to get there it is not worth it.


I monitor this too - how much time from when a driver begins heading to a restaurant to when they get there. When I order UE, I know I'm the stacked order so I know the driver isn't just making the trip for me. Most of the time I order lunch during the week in the suburbs (but there are a lot of restaurants and businesses in a short distance). Also, if the weather is really bad, I give a much larger tip in cash ($10-15) - it's not that I'm unwilling to go out in the weather, it's just that I can't leave the office.



goobered said:


> I don't know if consumers would want to pay the kind of delivery fees that would be necessary to compensate us fairly (especially to include wait time, dead miles, and time when you are on standby.) I do think some areas should have a surcharge for being too far out, or just double the rates if you have to drive round trip. Rideshare should do the same thing and double the rates for long trips.


Personally, I would - I'd rather more money go into the hands of the people handling my food. I just better not be missing any fries. &#129315;


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## Ubereatsgrubhubcaviar777 (Jan 11, 2020)

On stacked orders whoever is tipping highest or highest delivery fee that’s who I’m going to first unless your right around the corner then I’m leaving your food in lobby and going to the customer who cares and they will get apartment to your door delivery unless you live on like a major street Michigan State and Wabash are not happening under any circumstances $170 tow is not worth your tip thanks for the kind gesture however but half the time these people are understanding. It’s always the jerks that don’t tip anything or like $2.00 that want the most service


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberPuppetGirl said:


> You have to be caring about the customer's experience. From pick up to drop off. It seems silly that it's often just a cheese burger but it helps alot to have a nice outlook. Also having a bag and keeping the food warm is very important.
> 
> Also no matter what a customer tips if they tip, even rounding out a dollar with change shouldn't be bashed. Most times people pay from checking and might worry about overdrafting.
> The worse thing by far is bashing customers for using the service. Even if someone spends $10 for a $7 order from a few blocks away. That is what they wanted to do! Getting dressed, getting to the place to buy the food or beverage then getting back home in ppls busy lives. Is often worth the $10 to just get it delivered, even curb side.
> ...


You are definitely a shill.

If the only tip someone can give because they're worried about overdrafting their account is the $0.23 change, maybe they should try making a sandwich instead of paying restaurant prices and a delivery fee.

If you can't afford a decent tip, you can't afford the meal/service in the first place.



Ubereatsgrubhubcaviar777 said:


> On stacked orders whoever is tipping highest or highest delivery fee that's who I'm going to first unless your right around the corner then I'm leaving your food in lobby and going to the customer who cares and they will get apartment to your door delivery unless you live on like a major street Michigan State and Wabash are not happening under any circumstances $170 tow is not worth your tip thanks for the kind gesture however but half the time these people are understanding. It's always the jerks that don't tip anything or like $2.00 that want the most service


Tow is only $170 where you are? Lol.

Yeah, they'll tell you not to worry, they GUARANTEE you won't get a ticket.

FYI fire zone is $500 minimum in my area. Customers like to tell you to park there because those often seem very convenient places to park. There's a reason for that.

Worst case scenario there is a real live fire and the fire truck pushes your car out of the way. (Saw that at an apartment complex many years ago. I always wondered how the insurance worked out. There was no damage to the fire truck...)


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## Ubereatsgrubhubcaviar777 (Jan 11, 2020)

Yes a tow is 170 Chicago it’s outrageous


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

I just wanted to share with you guys what a customer sees on DD (per my previous post on this). You can see it defaulted to $6 and right underneath the numbers it says the recommended tip is "based on the delivery distance and effort".

I still think DD is doing drivers a disservice by putting basic compensation in the hands of customers, even if they try to force an amount by defaulting to it (since it's easily changed).


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I still think DD is doing drivers a disservice by putting basic compensation in the hands of customers, even if they try to force an amount by defaulting to it (since it's easily changed).


Thanks for the photo.

I agree, and really it does everyone a disservice. It ultimately hurts all parties involved because businesses need to be profitable in order to survive and provide good service. Lowering prices too much and/or expecting customers to supplement compensation with tips lowers the standards for everyone.

As it is they are leaving drivers open to getting ripped off on bad trips, customers open to getting bad service or none at all, and restaurants open to losing money on dead orders that no driver wants to take.

I think the gig companies are all trying to keep fees low enough to have a reasonable point of entry for customers, or offer promotions to attract or retain customers, to increase their market share or maybe just to stay afloat. Try some, buy some, and maybe the customer will come to appreciate the value of the service.

GH and DD have essentially created a bidding system where customers can decide how much they value the service, and to some extent supply and demand can also determine how much of a tip is necessary to secure a driver.

Uber has a totally different approach with their mysterious "trip supplement" that is supposed to compensate for extra effort.

The biggest problem is none of the gig companies have accounted for the high cost of commercial insurance in what they pay us. That's where they are ripping us off the worst.

Rideshare is different because you don't need commercial insurance, you can get an endorsement which is much more affordable. You can do rideshare part-time and still afford it. To do delivery right, you need to do it full-time and be very profitable to pay for the insurance. Most of us still can't afford it.

And if we afford commercial insurance, we take the worst kind of risk of anyone out there doing transportation work, in addition to the risk of an accident, personal injury or damage to vehicle, we risk denial of coverage, potentially for the rest of our lives. We risk total financial ruin, all to bring some cheapa$$ customer food for a few bucks.

In a fair world, every customer should pay a "fair share" of the average cost of commercial insurance costs on a delivery, even for very short trips (because we need the insurance regardless of how long the trip is, and each customer benefits from the same portion of it.) On top of that add fees for extra mileage to cover additional wear and tear on the vehicle. The customer should also pay a share of the time required that is comparable to employment wages + what an employer would put up on social security and at least some very minimal benefits.

People aren't used to paying those costs up front because they are accustomed to being served by employees, not contractors, and having the costs of a service padded into retail prices and absorbed by a higher volume of customers.

Ideally the mimimum fee for delivery should probably be around $7-10 even for very short distances, with surcharges for longer time and distance, and double rates for having to come back round trip.

Most customers will have sticker shock at paying those fees though. Many already do even at the lower fees they are paying now. People are spoiled to things like "free delivery" or "free shipping." There is no such thing, those costs are added to the prices somewhere.

If the gig companies charged higher fees, customers will only expect much higher standards of service. They would almost certainly have to hire drivers as employees to ensure that level or service. And our earnings overall would be less as they could get away with paying under $3.00 an hour and still leave it up to the customers to subsidize those wages with tips.

Overall I prefer to be in the situation where I am a contractor, not an employee. I believe what we actually are is a hybrid of both. It would be nice if the underlying rates were higher. In a genuine contractor scenario you can either set or negotiate your own rates. The best approximation of that is having customers tip up front and as contractors we can either accept or decline.

I may take a lowball offer on a slow night, or when I can stack it with another order. I like having the option to do that. If the minimum fee is too high, that order may not come at all.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

goobered said:


> The biggest problem is none of the gig companies have accounted for the high cost of commercial insurance in what they pay us. That's where they are ripping us off the worst.


Interesting. I hadn't heard commercial insurance was required for delivery drivers. I did some quick research, which says it's not, but it's highly recommended. I wouldn't fault anyone for having it, because the alternative can be much more expensive!



goobered said:


> Rideshare is different because you don't need commercial insurance, you can get an endorsement which is much more affordable. You can do rideshare part-time and still afford it. To do delivery right, you need to do it full-time and be very profitable to pay for the insurance. Most of us still can't afford it.


Fair enough. I'm going to venture to guess that most people don't realize commercial insurance is required, though. Which is unfortunate, since it is quite expensive.



goobered said:


> In a fair world, every customer should pay a "fair share" of the average cost of commercial insurance costs on a delivery, even for very short trips (because we need the insurance regardless of how long the trip is, and each customer benefits from the same portion of it.) On top of that add fees for extra mileage to cover additional wear and tear on the vehicle. The customer should also pay a share of the time required that is comparable to employment wages + what an employer would put up on social security and at least some very minimal benefits.
> 
> People aren't used to paying those costs up front because they are accustomed to being served by employees, not contractors, and having the costs of a service padded into retail prices and absorbed by a higher volume of customers.
> 
> ...


I think part of the issue (and I've said this before) is these companies call it a tip. If I knew if I paid $10 directly to a driver and I would be prioritized over someone who paid nothing or a couple bucks, I would absolutely do it. I'm not sure how much you order delivery on the consumer side, but my experience has been hit or miss. You may be a good delivery driver, but most aren't and I don't want bad ones having my $10. If I could pick a driver with a high rating, then I'd gladly pay $10 so I don't lose money leaving the office to pick up my own food.



goobered said:


> Overall I prefer to be in the situation where I am a contractor, not an employee. I believe what we actually are is a hybrid of both. It would be nice if the underlying rates were higher. In a genuine contractor scenario you can either set or negotiate your own rates. The best approximation of that is having customers tip up front and as contractors we can either accept or decline.
> 
> I may take a lowball offer on a slow night, or when I can stack it with another order. I like having the option to do that. If the minimum fee is too high, that order may not come at all.


In my primary business, I set my own rates. The rates are depending on difficulty of the assignment or supply of other talent in the market. My rate takes into consideration all my expenses I have that I wouldn't have as an employee - thousands a year in professional and general liability insurance, expensive crappy medical insurance/medical expenses in five figures annually, self employment taxes, supplementing 401k contributions, and unpaid holidays/time off.

I have a rate I charge, if a client wants to pay less, I either tell them no (definitely tell them no if I'm busy) or that they will be prioritized behind my other higher paying clients. They change their tune quickly.

Rideshare and deliveries should be the same. The more you're willing to pay, the better service you get. As a consumer, I'd be down with this model!


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## FormerTaxiDriver♧ (Apr 5, 2018)

goobered said:


> My understanding (correct me if I am mistaken) is that food delivery customers are prompted to tip a percentage of the total order amount.
> 
> This doesn't seem right to me because in most cases (unless it's a really large, heavy order) the amount they pay for the food really has nothing to do with is.
> 
> ...


In DD, there is a "delivery fee", and I feel the customer thinks we are paid that. I think the language should be less ambiguous and call the fee a PLATFORM FEE, so the customer can understand better.


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Interesting. I hadn't heard commercial insurance was required for delivery drivers. I did some quick research, which says it's not, but it's highly recommended. I wouldn't fault anyone for having it, because the alternative can be much more expensive!


The gig companies don't require you to have it, probably because they would never have enough drivers who could afford it. And it doesn't affect them at all since you are just taking that risk on yourself. They just say it is your responsibility to make sure you are properly insured blah blah blah.

But the insurance companies absolutely require it. And apparently they have calculated that it is much higher risk than rideshare since it costs so much more than a rideshare endorsement. I got a rideshare endorsement for only an extra $12 or so a month. Whereas commercial delivery insurance would more than triple my premiums. I want to get it but I can't afford it.

So with that in mind, it's a premium service, and the fees paid up front should cover that cost, but they don't.



> I think part of the issue (and I've said this before) is these companies call it a tip.


Maybe. I think most people do understand that the custom of tipping is intended to supplement low wages.

What they don't understand is that we are self-employed contractors, not employees. I have talked to people who had no idea of that. They think we are paid wages. But somehow also think that they can get up to an hour's worth of dedicated service for a delivery fee that is less than federal minimum wage, with miles that add up to even more than that at the federal mileage rate. I don't know how they think it could possibly work that way.

It's like they imagine you must be taking 10-20 deliveries an hour, just dropping them off left and right like UPS or Fedex. Lol. Racking up loads of tips so their one puny little tip or lack thereof couldn't be so important. When the reality is you can do one or two in an hour, maybe 3 if you are lucky and very efficient, because they are dedicated trips. They also don't understand that the money you gross is not what you really earn at the end of the day, you need to gross at least $20-25 an hour and take only the most profitable trips just to earn minimum wage, more like $30 and up if you truly want to earn a living.

Then it usually circles back to ignorant comments like "You shouldn't be doing this expecting to earn a living, it's unskilled, should be part-time only for people working their way up in the world, or a side hustle." Yeah, because anyone can afford commercial auto insurance just doing this casually a few nights a week, what's the problem?



> If I knew if I paid $10 directly to a driver and I would be prioritized over someone who paid nothing or a couple bucks, I would absolutely do it. I'm not sure how much you order delivery on the consumer side, but my experience has been hit or miss. You may be a good delivery driver, but most aren't and I don't want bad ones having my $10. If I could pick a driver with a high rating, then I'd gladly pay $10 so I don't lose money leaving the office to pick up my own food.


I can understand that. People hesitate to pay up front not knowing how good the service will be. I wish that the algorithms could match customers up with preferred drivers and vice versa. But keep in mind we can get rated unfairly by bad customers or restaurants, or rated down by an unhappy customer because the restaurant screwed up.

I don't hesitate to speak up to people who waste my time, but they do thumb down for it. That's okay with me, their prerogative, but I don't think my ability to get orders should be limited because of it. From my perspective I do it because I'm a good driver and I want to be efficient. I'm not going to stand around for a half hour while a restaurant dxxxs around putting an order together, or play Where's Waldo with a stupid customer.



> In my primary business, I set my own rates. The rates are depending on difficulty of the assignment or supply of other talent in the market. My rate takes into consideration all my expenses I have that I wouldn't have as an employee - thousands a year in professional and general liability insurance, expensive crappy medical insurance/medical expenses in five figures annually, self employment taxes, supplementing 401k contributions, and unpaid holidays/time off.
> 
> I have a rate I charge, if a client wants to pay less, I either tell them no (definitely tell them no if I'm busy) or that they will be prioritized behind my other higher paying clients. They change their tune quickly.
> 
> Rideshare and deliveries should be the same. The more you're willing to pay, the better service you get. As a consumer, I'd be down with this model!


I agree!



FormerTaxiDriver♧ said:


> In DD, there is a "delivery fee", and I feel the customer thinks we are paid that. I think the language should be less ambiguous and call the fee a PLATFORM FEE, so the customer can understand better.


Yes, that might be part of the problem.


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