# Why taxi drivers are suddenly getting nicer



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Washington Post 1/6/2016
*Why taxi drivers are suddenly getting nicer*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/05/why-taxi-drivers-are-suddenly-getting-nicer/

... The Technology Policy Institute's Scott Wallsten, in research presented this week at the annual meeting of the American Economic Association, finds evidence in New York that the number of complaints per taxi trip there has declined as Uber has expanded in the city. In Chicago, complaints about air conditioning, "broken" credit card machines and rude drivers have fallen as well with the recent rise of alternatives to taxicabs. ...


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

The Anti Taxi Nazis will not agree lol.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

To be sure, some of it is due to the presence of competition.

Here, at least, much of it is due to the presence of fewer illegals. For years, the politicans, regulators and enforcement authorities were aware of the numerous unlicenced drivers. At one point, one third of the cabs on the street at any given time were driven by someone without a hack licence. These illegals were the source of the majority of the complaints. The illegal did not care if he was reported to the Taxicab Commission, he had no hack licence that anyone could take.

While the illegal was confident that his chances of getting popped were slim, he did know that every once in a while, the enforcement authorities did have to crack down on the illegals. Further, every once in a while, the enforcement authorities were confronted with something so blatant that they had to do something about it.

Come Uber Black. The illegal who can actually get some financing for a limousine figures why not? "I can do this and not have to worry about the occasional crackdown. I can not take a street hail, but since most of these cabs will not accept a credit card, I can still have plenty of customers from electronic summonses. Why not?" Some of the illegals vanish.

Come Uber Taxi. Uber will not accept illegals, but now the taxi drivers can have Uber's customers who do not want to pay limousine rates.

Come UberX. Most of the illegals could not get the financing for a limousine. "BUY HERE/PAY HERE lemon lots, however, have plenty of beat up six, seven and eight year old Camrys available. Those joints will finance anyone who can frost a mirror. (cue up "At Eastern Motors, your job's your credit" commercial). The illegal says "Why risk getting popped? I can get one of these beat up Camrys and run UberX jobs" Now, almost all of the illegal cab drivers are gone. You do have one or two of these guys with Crown Victorias that have hardware store lettering, but those are they guys who owe everyone in town and a few who _*ain't*_ in town, and not even BUY HERE/PAY HERE will finance them.

These former illegal cab drivers bring all of their bad habits with them. To be sure, Uber does de-activate some of them, but, to hear the customers here, they are not de-activating that many of them.


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## Lack9133 (Mar 26, 2015)

From my experience with driving taxi's, the issue is not a change in taxi driver attitudes due to competition but the fact that many of the drivers that had "bad attitudes" and "broken credit card machines" all left the taxi world to drive for Uber leaving those behind who actually provided good service and attitudes. Considering there was only speculation and never proof of exactly what drivers were doing while on the road, cab companies couldn't fire them. After they all left for the higher promised rates at Uber, our complaints plummeted and the company had proof of who the problem drivers were. When they couldn't make it at Uber, couldn't make any money and so on and tried to come back, our management team didn't even consider bringing most of them back.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Lack9133 said:


> From my experience with driving taxi's, the issue is not a change in taxi driver attitudes due to competition but the fact that many of the drivers that had "bad attitudes" and "broken credit card machines" all left the taxi world to drive for Uber leaving those behind who actually provided good service and attitudes.


In your city it was simply bad drivers, -eh? Here it was mostly illegals, although the overwhelming majority of the illegals were, and still are, "bad drivers". To be sure, some of the legitimate drivers were, and still are "bad drivers", but the number of complaints is down. You do still get an inordinate amount of complaining to customers who want to use a card if not outright balking at it. The majority of the cab users here do hold firm on the card use, though: the driver can accept it or take nothing. I am just about to the point where I prefer that they pay electronically.

I know some legitimate "bad drivers" who went to Uber and/or Lyft and were subsequently de-activated by one, the other or both. For a while, they could not work, because a rental cab could not be found, here. As several of the major corporate fleets here made some "arrangements" to revive long dead H-plates (there is supposed to be a freeze on H-plates, here), the rental cab market has eased, somewhat. Still, if there are more rounds of hack licence issuance, I expect that the market might tighten, again. More than a few of the rental drivers who left for Uber were deadbeats who were weeks, months and in some cases years behind in their rent. In those cases, the fleet owners said "good riddance". Some of the deadbeats did try to go back and the fleet owners would not accept them. These days, most of the fleet owners want to know where the driver was before and they call his old company or fleet owner. Then there is the matter of the Letter of Good Standing, a requirement that the Taxicab Commission recently re-imposed.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Washington Post 1/6/2016
> *Why taxi drivers are suddenly getting nicer*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/05/why-taxi-drivers-are-suddenly-getting-nicer/
> 
> ... The Technology Policy Institute's Scott Wallsten, in research presented this week at the annual meeting of the American Economic Association, finds evidence in New York that the number of complaints per taxi trip there has declined as Uber has expanded in the city. In Chicago, complaints about air conditioning, "broken" credit card machines and rude drivers have fallen as well with the recent rise of alternatives to taxicabs. ...


Depending on the type of studies researchers usually do one of the following two things which often are not reported in the media because these are boring (but I think crucial) details. One, controlling for other important variables. Two, test to make sure the two groups we are comparing are the same. The latter seems to apply in this particular study.

The study seems to imply that the arrival of Uber caused cabby behavior/attitude to improve. They used "number of complaints per trip" as a proxy for cabby behavior/attitude (fine with me). Usually variable B is used as a proxy for variable A when we want to study A but it is too costly or next to impossible to measure A but it is easy to measure its proxy, B. For A think of altruism, patriotism, intelligence. For B think of charitable giving per gross income or memberships in civic organizations, frequency of voting in elections, IQ tests. As expected, proxies can be good or bad. But for this particular study, they picked a very good one.

But did they cull their data from the same group though. Uber's arrival not only may have caused remaining cabbies to become nicer (as reflected in lower number of complaints per trip), it may also have caused some cabbies to completely quit or decrease cab hours/trips (due to downsizing of the cab market) and some cab riders to desert cabs opting for TNCs. If the cab riders who switched from cabs to TNCs are essentially the same (in terms of tendency to file a complaint) as cab customers who stay put, no worries here. But if riders who switched are more of the complaining type, then this in itself will cause number of complaints per trip to drop, and vice versa. Similarly, if the cabbies who stay put are essentially the same as the cabbies who quit, behavior wise, then no worries here. But if the cabbies who quit tend to be nicer ones than cabbies who stay put, then this will tend to, in itself, increase the number of complaints per trip (thus rendering the findings' conclusion even stronger), and vice versa.

Using common-sense human behavior observations, I think the complaining types of cab riders tend more likely to move over to TNCs, and better drivers have higher tendency to quit and/or decrease cab trips/hours and increase Uber trips driven. So these two effects maybe a wash. But hopefully they have accounted for these two different effects by only comparing the same groups (they call it "population"). For example, by comparing data from the same set of, say, 30 cab drivers driving the same set of hundreds of customers either from or to a residential address whose number of trips have not changed much between the two periods of comparison. Limiting the drivers to the same ones teases out the effect of (better or worse) drivers' quitting cab driving on the overall customer complaints per trip. And limiting customers data to the above type of customers help tease out the effect of some customers' switching to TNC on the overall number of complaints per trip. I wonder if the researchers did this.

Deep down though, human nature being what it is, with TNCs breathing down their neck, it is only natural that cabbies become nicer to their customers over time.

What I fear, however, is the other, mirror opposite, happening in the TNC market.

TNCs start out with quite decent earnings (say, net income after expenses of $30 to $50 per hour) for the drivers, with enterprising, high quality, courteous native English speakers signing up. Then, once the TNC service has spread and gained acceptance and usage among the city population, to maximize profits it is only natural that TNCs lower fares in their attempt to reach that market equilibrium point where profit is maximized for TNCs. With lower fares, lower earnings, and lower quality (less courteous, ruder, stingier) riders, drivers are becoming frustrated and their daily attitude is not as good as just a year ago. With the influx of cheap and complaining riders to UberX lured by super cheap fares, their unpleasantness makes us unpleasant. So, while the cabbies' complaint rate is going down, UberX riders' complaint rate maybe going up!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Depending on the type of studies researchers usually do one of the following two things which often are not reported in the media because these are boring (but I think crucial) details. One, controlling for other important variables. Two, test to make sure the two groups we are comparing are the same. The latter seems to apply in this particular study.
> 
> The study seems to imply that the arrival of Uber caused cabby behavior/attitude to improve. They used "number of complaints per trip" as a proxy for cabby behavior/attitude (fine with me). Usually variable B is used as a proxy for variable A when we want to study A but it is too costly or next to impossible to measure A but it is easy to measure its proxy, B. For A think of altruism, patriotism, intelligence. For B think of charitable giving per gross income or memberships in civic organizations, frequency of voting in elections, IQ tests. As expected, proxies can be good or bad. But for this particular study, they picked a very good one.
> 
> ...


In a nutshell, yes.
Uber definitely got most of our bad apples, both in driver crossover from cabs to TNC, then rider attrition as well.
Uber does all the scrape work- $3 jobs between bars, grocery runs, and im sure dope runs as well.
And yes, the bottom feeders complain- a lot lol.
Thank you, Uber!
Im poorer in the bank but richer in my heart.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Actually you may be richer in the bank too--because the money-losing short trips with tons of groceries or several drunk millennials are now off your back thanks to Uber.

Normally these pax you either go take them and lose money, or don't go and pax get angry and the next time they ride they complain. Lose-lose situation all around. But now with Uber drivers taking them off your shoulder, I think it actually help cab drivers. So in certain ways TNCs can be a good thing to cab drivers.

Edit: "helps" not "help".


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

That is a very good reply that raises many points that merit further examination and discussion. In the interest of brevity, I have edited out much, but, if this discussion does continue, there are other points that you raise that deserve consideration. This, among others, is one reason why I welcome the presence of Uber riders, here. We do not hear enough from them.



ClevelandUberRider said:


> But if riders who switched are more of the complaining type, then this in itself will cause number of complaints per trip to drop, and vice versa. But if the cabbies who quit tend to be nicer ones than cabbies who stay put, then this will tend to, in itself, increase the number of complaints per trip (thus rendering the findings' conclusion even stronger), and vice versa.
> 
> Using common-sense human behavior observations, I think the complaining types of cab riders tend more likely to move over to TNCs, and better drivers have higher tendency to quit
> 
> ...


I would suspect that the chronic complainers would be among the first to switch, if for no other reason than the price is less for what they would consider the same level/quality of service (unless you are in New York City). Still, a chronic complainer is a chronic complainer. Is not sleep wonderful? It allows some people to complain only sixteen hours per day instead of all twenty-four.

I would not be in total agreement with your contention that the best cab drivers quit due to a loss of ridership. To be sure, some do. Do keep in mind, though, that those of us cab drivers who are possess the "better" qualities tend to be those of us who know our business. Thus, we are able to adapt to the changes and the pressures in the market-as-a-whole. The simple illustration is: we can keep our earnings at previous levels, we just have to work a little harder to do it. In addition, those of us who can, play both ends. Mostly, I drive the cab. I do drive the TNC vehicle, as well, but this is mostly out of adapting to the changes in the marketplace. One thing that I am starting to notice is that the traditionally slow periods for the cab business are even slower and lasting longer. Thus, I will take out the TNC car during those periods. The governing thinking is that substandard pay is better than no pay. To be sure, the TNC business is slow, also, during these traditionally slower periods. Still, if nothing else, the lower price does tend to render more customers. As I do know this business, I do know where to look for TNC customers. I figured out the whole thing pretty quickly. It is part of the adaptation process.

Still, your contention that better cab drivers are quitting the cab business is not entirely without merit. Some of them are.

Your analysis of the downgrading of the quality of drivers/vehicles does merit consideration and examination. It appears that this is playing out empirically, here, at least. The lower fares are driving away many of the better, "veteran" TNC drivers ("veteran" is, of course, in the TNC business, a relative term). If the lower fares do not drive away the veteran drivers, it certainly has caused them to curtail their working hours, thus diminishing the availability of the better, "veteran" drivers to the TNC users.

Your below quoted statement and the types of replies that similar statements bring from the cab drivers here certainly render substance to your assertions of the complaining or pain-in-the-tookas riders' switching to the TNCs. While I am continuing to see the milennials in the cab, the short "call" trips are not what they used to be. The short street hail trips are still there. The reason for that is if the user starts to order a TNC, but sees a cab, he figures "why wait?". As he is going only a short distance, the difference between the cab fare and the TNC fare is not that much. How much is his time worth?



ClevelandUberRider said:


> Actually you may be richer in the bank too--because the money-losing short trips with tons of groceries or several drunk millennials are now off your back thanks to Uber.
> 
> Normally these pax you either go take them and lose money, or don't go and pax get angry and the next time they ride they complain. Lose-lose situation all around. But now with Uber drivers taking them off your shoulder, I think it actually help cab drivers. So in certain ways TNCs can be a good thing to cab drivers.


In the City, here, at least, the short trips pay. In the suburbs, they do not. I have hacked in the suburbs and now hack in the City, so my statements come from experience. The suburban drivers may be glad to see the short trips gone, as more than a few of those short trips were pain-in-the-tookas regulars. In the City, most of us still miss the short trips. If they were the pain-in-the-tookas regulars, we simply put up with them. We felt better once we had their money. Those of us who have done dispatch tend to have a higher level of tolerance for certain things.

It was funny. As a dispatcher, I knew how to tell a driver we had recently acquired from one of the suburban companies. I would have to do a little work to convince him that he could make some pretty good money running what we used to call the "jerk runs" in the suburbs. This went double when we still had the Zone System.

Overall, a pretty good post that stimulates some thinking and raises some points worth serious consideration. Thank you.


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## oobaah (Oct 6, 2015)

I see some interesting points here....but, they all seem to come from people with Taxi background.

I do not.

So, here's my take. This "study" appears half-baked, even though final conclussion ends at the same spot.

The path taken by the researcher was not as convincing. Definitely not PhD material.

As much as the "taxi drivers are becoming nicer", I suspect (key word: suspect) it's got more to do with the riders shifting to Uber, than "bad/illegal hacks" driving for Uber.

It appears the data collected is inferring that "fewer complaint calls", but alas!, the data does not mention avg # of complaints per driver, # of drivers, # of riders.

If riders have stopped (reduced) expressing complaints, its because there are fewer of them. Expressed in different words; Within the rider base population, those with a "tendency to complain" are now using Uber, hence the drop in # of complains.

There are two levers at work:

Frustrated Drivers (labelled as bad hacks, by fellow Cabbies) moving to Uber
Frustrated Riders (by poor service from Cabbies) moving to Uber <----moves to a larger degree than (1) above i.e. less stickiness to the system
Also, there is a chilling effect of bad habits to the Hacks that remain in the Cabbie industry, with regards to poor service. They now have more to lose if they do not pull up their socks

Overall effect is cabbies becoming "nicer"


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Thank you for sharing on UP your rich experience in a rare-on-the-Internet style of writing that is enjoyable to read. I am glad UP has good posters from both sides willing to rise above the strong emotions we see here in some posters, and engage in meaningful, rational, and constructive exchange of experience and insights. Such posts are very helpful to those digging around on UP looking for info and insights about the interplay of cab and TNC businesses--newbie drivers, soon-to-be new-bee drivers, existing drivers, journalists doing a piece on this, academic researchers, staffers for policy makers, legislative aides, Lyber staff, etc. For people who are intent on constantly learning to improve themselves in being who they are and doing what they do, we delight in meaningful, constructive posts like yours. Thank you.

Edit: This post is in response to Another Uber Driver's excellent, long write-up.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Washington Post 1/6/2016
> *Why taxi drivers are suddenly getting nicer*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/05/why-taxi-drivers-are-suddenly-getting-nicer/
> 
> ... The Technology Policy Institute's Scott Wallsten, in research presented this week at the annual meeting of the American Economic Association, finds evidence in New York that the number of complaints per taxi trip there has declined as Uber has expanded in the city. In Chicago, complaints about air conditioning, "broken" credit card machines and rude drivers have fallen as well with the recent rise of alternatives to taxicabs. ...


POST # 1/Michael - Cleveland : Bostonian
Bison is DELIGHTED
to have your Writing Capabilities back on
These Forums! Thank You for the care
with which you Select Articles for the
Readership's Consideration.

I am sure that NUubee oobaah will
seek to invalidate my
OPINION because I did a six month stint
with Checker Cab in Boston in 1975!

Mentoring Bison: Keeping. It. 100%. REAL!


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

POST # 11/ClevelandUberRider: What a
Pleasant and Positive
Accolade for My Fellow Notable and
Capable Colleague Michael - Cleveland !

Would you be able to deliver that on
a Bronze Placque for me ? I'd like to
present it to Michael in a Special Cere-
mony to thank the Great "Great Laker"
for His Service to UPNF !

Your Gracious and Specific Compliment
serves to distinguish Intelligent Commen-
tary from the "Half-Baked" guttersniping
of Internet Trolls who relish being "the
Turd in the Punchbowl".

Mentoring Bison: Calls'em like he sees'em!


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Can it be that the bad uberX stuff in read I this forum is a contrast ?
As in you get the bad end of a uber drive all of a sudden a taxi feels not as bad as we thought ?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

oobaah said:


> I see some interesting points here....but, they all seem to come from people with Taxi background.
> 
> I do not.
> 
> ...


Uber and taxi are at a intersection point at best

Downward line for uber 
Upward line for taxi

This forum contains the evidence LMAO!!!


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 1/Michael - Cleveland : Bostonian
> Bison is DELIGHTED
> to have your Writing Capabilities back on
> These Forums! Thank You for the care
> ...


Channeling some enterprising British talent from the Cultural Learning fame...

I thanks you Mister Bison. I like Boston, barry glad I can be to help in this you-pee board of discuss. My think is this veteranian writers like Boston Barry and Michael Cleveland should be elevate to sit on board of direct on UP. They is good, there comment are barry helping for new divers.

BTW I like your posts, I read it. But they hurt my eyes. You should hook up with Marissa Mayer, she expertise in fonts, colour, graphic layout, visual present. I heard she being kicked out of Yahoo for not change things fast enuff there. So maybe she will help you make your posts here not hurt my eyes?


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Channeling some enterprising British talent from the Cultural Learning fame...
> 
> I thanks you Mister Bison. I like Boston, barry glad I can be to help in this you-pee board of discuss. My think is this veteranian writers like Boston Barry and Michael Cleveland should be elevate to sit on board of direct on UP. They is good, there comment are barry helping for new divers.
> 
> BTW I like your posts, I read it. But they hurt my eyes. You should hook up with Marissa Mayer, she expertise in fonts, colour, graphic layout, visual present. I heard she being kicked out of Yahoo for not change things fast enuff there. So maybe she will help you make your posts here not hurt my eyes?


POST #;17/ClevelandUberRider: Sorry
for the Eyestrain.
Your kind words are Appreciated.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> To be sure, some of it is due to the presence of competition.
> 
> Here, at least, much of it is due to the presence of fewer illegals. For years, the politicans, regulators and enforcement authorities were aware of the numerous unlicenced drivers. At one point, one third of the cabs on the street at any given time were driven by someone without a hack licence. These illegals were the source of the majority of the complaints. The illegal did not care if he was reported to the Taxicab Commission, he had no hack licence that anyone could take.
> 
> ...


I always learn a lot from your posts as to how the cab biz works in DC, it's pretty interesting to contrast it compared to here.

The biggest complaints we hear about taxis here are usually from either some of the couple dozen small taxi companies that range in fleet size from 1 cab to 3 cabs, to a few that have up to a dozen or so, or from one of the "big" companies that is notorious for being just basically lawless due to an owner who is basically lawless and couldn't care less about any complaints. Of the 28 cab companies in Orange County CA, only 3 of them are "big". The 3 big ones have fleets of about 150, 200, and 500.

The notorious cab company is the one that has about 200 cabs in their fleet. These drivers have learned that they can pull every single trick in the book and get away with it, so they do, day in and day out. They make us all look bad. They are so bad that they lost airport pickup rights at JWA, they lost major contracts to resort hotels and hardly have any remaining accounts or stands. So now the drivers are even more hungry and have amped up their game even worse. That is the company that most drivers go to when they get booted from our company for whatever reason, (accidents attitude etc), because that owner will take any willing driver no questions asked, "just pay the lease, thank you, go out and do your thing." They are the ones that will scoop you any time they get a chance, and lie to the customer to get them in the cab. Then they will offer them a "flat rate" that is 2 or 3 times what the meter will be, and insist on cash up front to "get the deal". Stuff like that. If, for example, I am on my way to a pickup and one of them is following me, I can not use my turn signal and have to "swoop" into the proper turn lane at the last second, otherwise they will figure out where my pickup is, and they will run through a red light or whatever they have to do to beat me there and steal my pax. Believe me, this is an every day thing for me. They are the ones who sit at bus stops all day every day risking a $500 ticket for a $10 or $20 fare. They are the ones that will drive through our exclusive stands right in front of our lineup and grab our pax, since the pax have no idea that they don't belong there. I could go on and on, but the point is, if they do that kind of stuff, you can only imagine how they handle the pax.


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## oobaah (Oct 6, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> I am sure that NUubee oobaah will
> seek to invalidate my
> OPINION because I did a six month stint
> with Checker Cab in Boston in 1975!


I have No desire to engage


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 1/Michael - Cleveland : Bostonian
> Bison is DELIGHTED
> to have your Writing Capabilities back on
> These Forums! Thank You for the care
> ...


"Attention all Checker cabs:
1254 Boyl needs CABS, repeat, the boston RAMROD needs cabs for the letherclad gentlemen of the night.
Whats that, 100? A TEE OH cab stole.your fare? Tell him to keep walking. Through the Fenway. Anyone have a coffee for a tired dispatcher?
Remember, when life has got you down and you wanna get loose,
Take a long ride on the old Spruce Goose!"
Ahh the memories.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> "Attention all Checker cabs:
> 1254 Boyl needs CABS, repeat, the boston RAMROD needs cabs for the letherclad gentlemen of the night.
> Whats that, 100? A TEE OH cab stole.your fare? Tell him to keep walking. Through the Fenway. Anyone have a coffee for a tired dispatcher?
> Remember, when life has got you down and you wanna get loose,
> ...


POST#20/TwoFiddyMile : "Spruce Goose"?
The ONLY one
of those that this Pilot is aware of was
parked/docked for y e a r s in Long Beach
and belonged to Howard Hughes the
Aircraft Designer, Erstwhile Ladies' Man,
Movie Mogul, Germophobe & Recluse.

I get the feeling that you're thinking of
Something Completely Different ! Like
the days when "Leatherman" did NOT
refer to a MultiFunction Pocket Tool ?

Bison Chortling!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

The Spruce Goose line was proffered by Bobby Bird, longtime dispatcher/comic at ITOA who retired sometime in the 90s.
One day i was getting my csb repaired at USA garage on Adams st in Dorchester and he appealed to my humanity.
"Whos this new dispatcher at the TEE OH who steals my material. Spruce Goose? Sure yer right? Tell her to Keep walking?
This is B. Bird material!"
I commiserated. I suggested he secure a copyright lawyer on retainer.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> *1. *I always learn a lot from your posts as to how the cab biz works in DC, it's pretty interesting to contrast it compared to here.
> 
> *2. *The notorious cab company is the one that has about 200 cabs in their fleet. That is the company that most drivers go to when they get booted from our company for whatever reason, (accidents attitude etc), because that owner will take any willing driver no questions asked, "just pay the lease, thank you, go out and do your thing."
> 
> ...


1. I am always interested to learn about the cab business in other parts of the country. If nothing else, it helps me when I testify before the Taxicab Commission or City Council about all things-on-wheels-for-hire-on-the-ground. Thus, I welcome your feedback and any from any other hackers and cab company officials or employees. There is, to be sure, a personal curisosity, as well.

2. Your problem companies are at either end of the size spectrum, -eh? Here, the problem companies usually are the smaller. It appears that the courts and regulators in Southern California do not hold companies responsible for their drivers. Here, for some time, both entities have held the companies responsible for the actions of the drivers, even if none of the drivers here work for the companies. Here, the drivers affiliate with companies by contract, be they owner-operators, fleet owners within a company or rental drivers. As the larger companies do not want their Operating Authority yanked, or do not want to be sued, they tend to keep closer watch on their drivers. The unscrupulous companies simply want to take what money they can, so they try to keep a low profile. Many of these companies are nothing but side businesses to a mechanic shoppe, a gasolene station or tyre vendor.

One thing that surprises me is that the lawyers for the companies have never tried to shift the blame to the Hack Office. The Hack Office issues the licences. In order to get the licence, the driver must prove that he knows the laws, rules, ordinances and regulations. The Hack Office sends these drivers to the companies with these licences. These licences prove that these drivers are sufficiently aware of the rules that it satisfies the Government. If that is the case, where does the company have any place to question the government on that matter? If the driver breaks the rules, and it is brought to the company's attention, it can impose appropriate sanctions. There is little that the company can do to stop the driver from breaking the rules in the first place.

3. They go to that much trouble to steal a job? Talk about hungry? Here, you do see cabs try to snag a pickup from the front door of the hotel that has cabs on the stand when they are dropping off. If the trip is an airport trip, the doorman will try to sell it to a cab that is dropping, at times. I do not work hotel stands, but as the newcomers to this business have no respect for any one or any thing, I will be unethical, at times, and will take the pick up when I am dropping. They can honk and yell all that they will. What is funny is that most of the time, it is something that those hotel boys do not want, anyhow.

4. I do not know of too many who actually will sit at a bus stop, here. Under the old Zone System, playing "beat the bus" generally did not pay. With the meters, it does pay a little better. In the suburbs, it pays to play "beat the bus". In fact, I used to make pretty good money playing "beat the bus" on Government Holidays. The busses here will run on Sunday or Saturday schedule, here, on those days. More than a few people in the private sector, still must report for work. Often those are the lower-paid workers who use public transportation.

If you went along a bus route, someone who did not want to be late for work would hail. You pull over, put the guy or girl into the cab and say to him/her "I tell you what. I am going to save you a little money. I will charge you the same as the bus, but we are going to fill up this cab." Fine with the person who hailed. So down went the right front window "Anyone else want to go to the Pentagon (there is a large and heavily used METRO stop there)? Dollar apiece, just like the bus". Usually, I got at least one taker. In fact, if I did not fill up the cab there, I would at the next stop. Rarely did I have to stop at the third one. To avoid getting into trouble for high flagging, I would run the meter. The meter ran three-dollars-fifty, or so. I would get five dollars for the trip. If I charged for the extra passengers, back then I might have gotten just shy of six dollars, but, I would not have had the customers. I made out allright as did the passengers. Mind you, I did this only in the suburbs. I do not make a habit of playing beat the bus in the City.

5. The District of Columbia banned exclusive stands some time around 1982. Still, see the last part of my reply numbered three to get a description of similar here.

6. When I was a company official, we found that the drivers who frequently violated the rules also were the deadbeats and slow pay/no pays, were the subjects of constant complaints for fleet owners about not paying rent, always paid their company fees late, had the most at-fault collisions, the most passenger complaints to the company. These were the guys who frequently came running to the company for help when they were in trouble with the Hack Office. As it was my job to help them with Hack Office complaints,, I would do what I could for them, but, in most cases, I had to tell them that they were going to have to bend over with no lube allowed. It was funny when they would start hollering and screaming at me that I was being unfair with them. I had to tell more than one that I was not the guy whom they had to convince, so what I think of their story did not matter. They had to convince their Hearing Panel (this was a while back, mind you, before the establishment of the Office of Administrative Hearings), and, as I knew the Commissioners, knew how they were and was familiar with more than a few cases that had gone before them, I had a pretty good idea of how they would likely rule on something. I would try to help them with their statements or try to tell them that they needed a lawyer and direct them to one, but there was only so much that I or a lawyer could do.

Your misgivings on how those bad drivers might treat passengers are not unfounded.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> "Attention all Checker cabs:
> 1254 Boyl needs CABS, repeat, the boston RAMROD needs cabs for the letherclad gentlemen of the night.
> Whats that, 100? A TEE OH cab stole.your fare? Tell him to keep walking. Through the Fenway. Anyone have a coffee for a tired dispatcher?
> Ahh the memories.


Ah, the chatter of a voice dispatcher. As a former dispatcher myself, I miss that, both the hearing and the chattering. Since the arrival of the satellites/computer/GPS call assignment systems, Ownership does not think that it needs to pay dispatchers. They will put someone onto the microphone, but it is a veteran telephone operator, usually. The operators know nothing about the cab business, so they can not help a driver. The drivers complain, but ownership think only that "the calls go out, so who cares about anything else?".

(NOTE my use of "call assignment" to describe the satellite/GPS/ computer systems. You need a human being who knows what he is doing to "dispatch". Anything else is mere "call assignment".)


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

They're getting nicer because they're seeing Uber destroy itself. It's almost over. Hooray!


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> 1. I am always interested to learn about the cab business in other parts of the country. If nothing else, it helps me when I testify before the Taxicab Commission or City Council about all things-on-wheels-for-hire-on-the-ground. Thus, I welcome your feedback and any from any other hackers and cab company officials or employees. There is, to be sure, a personal curisosity, as well.
> 
> 2. Your problem companies are at either end of the size spectrum, -eh? Here, the problem companies usually are the smaller. It appears that the courts and regulators in Southern California do not hold companies responsible for their drivers. Here, for some time, both entities have held the companies responsible for the actions of the drivers, even if none of the drivers here work for the companies. Here, the drivers affiliate with companies by contract, be they owner-operators, fleet owners within a company or rental drivers. As the larger companies do not want their Operating Authority yanked, or do not want to be sued, they tend to keep closer watch on their drivers. The unscrupulous companies simply want to take what money they can, so they try to keep a low profile. Many of these companies are nothing but side businesses to a mechanic shoppe, a gasolene station or tyre vendor.
> 
> ...


Generally speaking the small companies have little to fear since they are almost always going to just go bk, and/or change "ownership", and or just disappear into the ether when or if things get sticky. It's not that hard or expensive to set up a cab co in Orange County, so they don't have much to lose. Plus, almost no pax is going to remember the actual name of the no-name yellow cab look-alike sound-alike co, if they complain, they are just going to say, if they can even figure out the phone number to call the governing body (OCTAP) "I got ripped off by a Yellow Cab last night!" "Oh, sorry to hear that, do you know the name of the cab co?" "Yellow Cab! Like, what do you mean? It was a yellow cab! I think it was yellow! Or maybe it was blue, or white maybe." "Well there are 28 permitted cab co's in this county, we will need to narrow down who's cab co might have provided your ride, and then, do you remember the driver's permit number or name?" "Huh? Ummm, no."

The one bigger "notorious" company owner operates with a complete disdain for any laws or rules, and somehow seems to get away with it by constantly going bk, changing names/shell owner names, etc. They operate for years with mostly invalid/insufficient insurance, they drive around with "temporary" registration plates on a given taxi for a year or more, they are always trying to short the drivers in a variety of ways, and they are the worst in terms of dispatcher payola "pay-to-play".

I have to laugh whenever I see former drivers from this "notorious" cab co driving their Ubers around now, I can only imagine all the creative ways they are exploiting the system to the detriment of other Uber drivers and the pax, not to mention Uber itself, not that I could care about that last part.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

itsablackmarket said:


> They're getting nicer because they're seeing Uber destroy itself. It's almost over. Hooray!


Dude, i hope so.
Seriously.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> *1. *It's not that hard or expensive to set up a cab co in Orange County.
> 
> *2. *Plus, almost no pax is going to remember the actual name of the no-name yellow cab look-alike sound-alike co, if they complain, they are just going to say, "I got ripped off by a Yellow Cab last night!" "Oh, sorry to hear that, do you know the name of the cab co?" "Yellow Cab! Like, what do you mean? It was a yellow cab! I think it was yellow! Or maybe it was blue, or white maybe." "Well there are 28 permitted cab co's in this county, we will need to narrow down who's cab co might have provided your ride, and then, do you remember the driver's permit number or name?" "Huh? Ummm, no."
> 
> ...


1. It used to be that way in the District of Columbia. It was and is difficult to do that in the suburbs, but not in the City. D.C. has stopped issuing new company charters, for now, at least. In addition, through new and unduly burdensome regulation, they are trying to drive companies out of business. Finally, they are ramping up on holding companies responsible for aberrant drivers. When there are two or three cases of driver misconduct, they go after the company's Operating Authority. There are just over one hundred companies in the District of Columbia. A few years back, there were just under one-hundred thirty, but they have managed to put a few out of business. In addition, one mogul has bought the charters of several companies and while the color scheme is not on the street, the company is still considered active as its name is on the titles of cars painted in another company's scheme that the mogul owns, as well.

2. This has been a constant problem, here, especially in the matter of lost articles. When I was a company official, it started out "I don't know the cab number, but it was a Middle-Eastern cab driver named Mohammed who wore glasses, had a beard and drove a station waggon". Lady, you just described sixty-three per-cent of the cab drivers in Washington, which Mohammed did you have in mind? Sometimes, you would get "He was an African." I have one-hundred ninety-two Africans, here, Madame, which one did you have in mind? Toward the end of my stint, it became "He had an 'unusual' name, it was 'Tesfaye' "* . Sirrah, every fifth male in Ethiopia is named "Tesfaye". Which "Tesfaye" was it?

3. We had something similar, here. There is one suburb, here, Montgomery County, Maryland that is full of Volvos, Prius and Subaru Outbacks that all sport "Ready for Hilary" bumper stickers. That is one reason, among several, why people call it MontCOMMIEry County. In keeping with that, the County Council decided to try to micromanage the cab business, there. It passed a dictate that stated that all cab companies had to respond to a request within twenty minutes. The ownership of one company there immediately declared bankruptcy, thus allowing it to dodge that bullet. In truth, the current ownership of that company is the heir to its founder, so he, himself, has no business sense. His father, however was a rather colorful and smart character. He found some good backers and some good lawyers.

The story goes that the lawyers had the the family of one of his backers write some demand paper and hand over some money. The money was returned to them through certain "channels", but the paper remained. As soon as the regulation with which it could not comply took effect, the lawyers had the backers call the paper, which, of course, the company could not pay. So, they declare bankruptcy. Trust me, the ownership of that company _*ain't broke*_. I have heard this story from more than one source, but never have checked it out, myself, so, it remains hearsay, only.

I know that when my company faced a major lawsuit, all that it took was the threat of a bankruptcy declaration to make our opponents become reasonable. We certainly had the balance sheet (which the judge compelled us to give them) to give substance to the threat of a bankruptcy declaration. Even the judge told them that. There were more than a few _*ex parte*_ communictions between the judge and plaintiffs on that case, as I learned later from one of the disaffected high powered lawyers on the case.

4. We have had mostly individual drivers trying to hack with cardboard plates, here, although there have been some rental cars with them, as well. It is specifically illegal to work with cardboard plates, here.

5. Corrupt dispatching has been a problem since dispatching was invented. At one point here, when I was on the out due to my siding with the losing side in a political squabble, the corruption was so bad that the driver finally threatened to leave over it. It was, in fact, what got me back in to the office, as the drivers knew that I had fired more than one dispatcher and more than one operator for corruption. They demanded my return. It took some time, as one of the most crooked of the dispatchers still had the Board of Directors on his side, but I managed to clean it up, for a while.

For what few premium jobs are left, there is still corruption, as now there are mostly minimum wage telephone operators on the microphone, here. At least the dispatchers were paid fairly well in most companies, here, so there was some disincentive to corruption.

Corruption is a serious problem at the hotels, here. If you do not pay the doorman, you get nothing more than mediocre or garbage trips. I do not work hotels, so it does not affect me, that much. We have complained to the hotels for years about it, but we get back the same old nonsense about how it is against their policy and blah, blah, blah. I wonder if Uber gets its cue cards for its CSRs from hotel management in Washington.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Thanks for your valuable cab business experience. In my earlier post(s) I should have been more clear (but this tends to make sentences longer). When I say those cab drivers who switch to Uber or drive both tend to be better (nicer in this research's focus) than those who stay put (doing just cab), I meant to imply "controlling for cab driving tenure". For example, among cab drivers with only X number of cab experience, say 1-2 years, I was thinking maybe the worse ones will be less likely to join Uber due to the rating system.

But of course, the reason "tenure" (years of experience driving a cab) should be controlled is because there likely is another cause and effect association between how good a cab driver is and his years of service--good ones tend to stay on, bad ones fall out either by choice or not (fired).

If good ones tend to stay on while bad ones leave (highly expected to be true by common sense), the longer the tenure, the better the overall average driver quality. So, the fact that these more experienced cab drivers are on average better may be explaining a big portion of the study's result.

On a side note, the potential biggest problem with this study is that the researchers have likely taken the easiest, least time costly approach. More specifically, by taking the total number of complaints before Uber and divide it by the same period's total number of trips, then do the same for the period after Uber, finally compare the two. Which is the way most studies that are not intended for submission to rigorous, peer-reviewed academic journals are done. Because, this approach not only saves a lot of time, but it usually gets more media coverage and public attention due to them being more controversial, more timely (due to shorter "production" process), and, obviously, easier for the layman to grasp. For a good research, 95% of the total time of doing the research is spent on thinking, 5% on the actual data collection and analysis. The reverse is true for bad research. Since bad research's data collection and analysis part is way easier than that of good research's part (easily less than one fifth), bad research, in totality, can be cranked out 100 times or more faster than good research.

(Edited for grammatical typos.)


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## Dandelion (Oct 10, 2017)

I take Cabs when I need too. I can tell you,
From experiences, some can't drive, and some
Are good and responsible drivers. I tell you,
One thing I hate is drivers that get too 
Personal. I remember one day. I was going 
Someplace,. I had a woman driver that was 
Telling me her problems, to the point where
She started to cry. I was thinking (oh Geeze). 
I share this because, sometimes there are 
People who do that should find someone
Who can actually help them. I think
That transportation for the most part
Is a God send.


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