# my car got hit - with a passenger!



## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

so friday night i go out to start my night. first ping i get is a decent trip to downtown. a mile from his destination, i'm rolling down the street in the right lane, obeying lights and not speeding or anything, and wham! didn't see anything, thought i hit a curb or something. 

then i see in the lane next to me a buy looking at me with the fear of god in his eyes and a damaged bumper. follow him, stop on the road side, get out, see my passenger side slightly caved in, from middle of the front door back. front door still opens, back is screwed. no one hurt, thank god.

anyway. guys freaking the hell out cause he doesn't have insurance. i begin memorizing his license plate as soon as i hear that, just in case. then despite his begging, call 911. while i'm on the line, he begins driving off. i'm just watching him with one of those calm, peaceful "wtf is he doing? i already have his plate..." looks. but yea, he bolts.

couple hours later the cops show up and take a report. i of course emailed uber asap. they responded asking for more details, tell me to fill out an incident report (which i have to print and fax) and to provide the police report number, which i did.

now it's monday and i've had no further response. thinking i'll go down to the uber office if i don't hear anything shortly.

anyone have any idea how long it may take to get my car fixed and back on the road? i'm a full time uber driver... effectively unemployed now.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

With the deductible you might be paying for this out of pocket... I have paid for 2 this year. Not fun.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

my pocket is currently $37...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

arklan said:


> so friday night i go out to start my night. first ping i get is a decent trip to downtown. a mile from his destination, i'm rolling down the street in the right lane, obeying lights and not speeding or anything, and wham! didn't see anything, thought i hit a curb or something.
> 
> then i see in the lane next to me a buy looking at me with the fear of god in his eyes and a damaged bumper. follow him, stop on the road side, get out, see my passenger side slightly caved in, from middle of the front door back. front door still opens, back is screwed. no one hurt, thank god.
> 
> ...


A. Stop talking about the accident now, even here. You may wind up in a lawsuit if a pax was 'traumatized in any way' which ways are nearly infinite in the hands of an enterprising pax and a good attorney, and yes, *EVERYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU.*

B. and particularly so since you probably have the infamous 'insurance gap' that many states have warned about, not to mention non-compliance with a 'real' insurance policy, which same Uber's probably/maybe requires for theirs to be effective for you.

Let us know what you find out AFTER ALL is said and done. I'm sure we'd all be anxious to hear, especially if you get the ignore button from Uber. There have been a couple of notes from drivers here who have not responded back after similar incidents. They may be under the care of an attorney or they may be scrambling for their financial lives trying to figure it out.

Jury is still out, apparently.

(I'm not an attorney or an insurance agent. *Do your own homework!*)

Non response from Uber for 3 days tho may be concern enough for me.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

i'm thinking i'll head down to their office in a bit here... and see about getting some qoutes on repair costs.

oh, and pictures of the damage as suggested by someone on reddit.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Trying to figure out how your accident happened from your post. If you were in the right lane, where was the other vehicle? You first saw him in the lane next to you? But the damage is to your passenger side doors?
Did the cops call it a hit and run? Glad no one was injured.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

cops called it hit and run, yes.

i was inthe right lane, NEXT TO the lane of of cars parked against the curb at meters. he came from being parked at a meter into my side. how he then ended up next to me, i haven't a clue at all.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Okay, since you thought you hit a curb it sounded like you were in the lane next to the curb.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

sorry about that.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

I know a little bit about accidents. Lane change accidents are tough to prove who is at fault. However, a jury would probably have very little sympathy for a hit and run if that is what happened. So you might have a strong case. Insurance company adjusters are psycho and will call white black and black white. Definitely get a lawyer just so you don't have to fight directly with trained adjusters who are programmed to deny claims all day long. If somebody claims an injury get a lawyer for your own defense. If you are injured get a lawyer quickly.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

my ankle was bruised a bit, but it's totally fine now. no other injuries reported, unless the passenger did after he left me.

anyone have any idea where uber's dallas office is? i can't find anything.


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## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

you shouldnt be posting this info until it si all taken care of by insurance, especially if there is any doubt as to who was at fault.
But hey, if things go bad from here, please continue to post, as it may help some future driver when they are in your situation


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## Orlando_Driver (Jul 14, 2014)

Prepare for the lawsuit from the rider...did you tell the cop you were driving for Uber ?


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

What a nightmare. Good luck getting your $1000 deductible back from this ******bag hit and run driver. Please keep us up to date on the progress.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

First of all, don't worry about the passenger. If the passenger takes any action through an attorney, it'll be as an uninsured claim against Uber, not you. Uninsured motorist claim=the not at fault insurer has to step in and assume the role of the at-fault party, then once its all paid, they go after him. 

My guess is the response is so slow because Uber reps (specifically at the city office) don't handle claims. I would assume that James River Insurance does all that. My assumption is based on the fact that an accident requires an incident report to be faxed in. You didn't find that odd? Uber is a tech company. Insurance companies very much are not.

What I'd do is check the waybill on the app and find the policy number for your state, then call James River and give them that number, the date of loss, and your name, and see if they have a claim set up, and if so, who it is with. You'll probably have to be pretty patient during the whole process, most adjusters move pretty slow on getting things done.

Very few insurance matters go to court because of the expense of litigation, especially on the defense side. You do not need an attorney. If the rider were to somehow come back, claim injury, and not be able to settle with Uber, then they would file a lawsuit. At that point, Uber's insurance provides you with a defense attorney, assuming you are even called in.

If Uber's insurer handles your damages, they will then pass the claim on to collection attorneys. Sometimes the collection attorneys realize the uninsured person has no assets and just gets their license suspended and does nothing else for years, until the guy pays them back, but sometimes they have to file suit against the uninsured driver for this. You may get called to testify on their behalf, but sometimes they even just have the adjuster called as a witness. I've had to do this twice, both times the policyholder wasn't called, so I was basically put on the stand to testify that we paid damages, the damages were paid as part of a contractual obligation, I verify the amount, and then I do the same for the rental car. It's a total coin flip as far as whether or not the uninsured person shows up. Sometimes they don't because they are in jail for something else, and sometimes they just show up and are like "aww man, I was going to pay for this but they wanted $1400, and my buddy could do it for $300, and man I've only got $76."

You'll probably still be on the hook for the $1,000 deductible, but if the collection attorneys get anything out of the uninsured guy, the first $1,000 goes back to you, since a deductible is basically co-insurance.

Shoot me a PM if you have any other questions. There is a LOT of misinformation being spread on the forum by people who do not have experience on the matter and thus choose to re-tell and exaggerate unfounded urban legends.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

You are right about most cases not going to court, however much legal wrangling goes on before the court and then usually both sides settle out of court. I have experience as the plaintive not the defendant. Since every case is different, get advice from a lawyer as to whether you even need a lawyer. That is usually free as an initial consultation.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Shoot me a PM if you have any other questions. *There is a LOT of misinformation being spread on the forum* by people who do not have experience on the matter and thus choose to re-tell and exaggerate unfounded urban legends.


*And you my friend are just as full of crap as anyone.*

At least you had the *shill balz* to state this fact. Tactfully buried in the middle of your spiel, as any good shill would do. Just like Uber might in their bullshit:

"If Uber's insurer handles your damages, *they will then pass the claim on to collection attorneys. Sometimes the collection attorneys realize the uninsured person has no assets and just gets their license suspended and does nothing else for years, until the guy pays them back, but sometimes they have to file suit against the uninsured driver for this."*

Freely translated as *yes, they will shove it up the drivers rear end.*

Technically, since most personal auto policies do not carry UBER as an additional insured they are void. They are also void for other reasons. Any nitwit can call their own insurance company like I did and HEAR THIS FACT. And because of that if Uber 'feels' like taking care of the driver, they MIGHT. It's entirely subjective on Uber's part. *James River would be NUTZ to start paying claims for illegally insured drivers as their legal exposure for that precedent would go off the charts high.*

One thing for sure. It WILL be a big headache that can be avoided by being PROPERLY INSURED with a commercial policy or hopefully a hybrid policy in the near future.


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## PartTimeUberBoston (Sep 30, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> First of all, don't worry about the passenger. If the passenger takes any action through an attorney, it'll be as an uninsured claim against Uber, not you. Uninsured motorist claim=the not at fault insurer has to step in and assume the role of the at-fault party, then once its all paid, they go after him.


WRONG WRONG and WRONG. The Passenger can take action not only against Uber and the uninsured operator, but also YOU as the driver and independent contractor of Uber. It doesn't matter if the person who hit you was uninsured, all that matters is you were the operator of the vehicle when the accident occurred. With the questionable status of insurance for the driver, I would be VERY concerned at this time and I would seek counsel NOW from a reputable attorney.



Sean O'Gorman said:


> My guess is the response is so slow because Uber reps (specifically at the city office) don't handle claims. I would assume that James River Insurance does all that. My assumption is based on the fact that an accident requires an incident report to be faxed in. You didn't find that odd? Uber is a tech company. Insurance companies very much are not.
> 
> What I'd do is check the waybill on the app and find the policy number for your state, then call James River and give them that number, the date of loss, and your name, and see if they have a claim set up, and if so, who it is with. You'll probably have to be pretty patient during the whole process, most adjusters move pretty slow on getting things done.


This is just mumbo jumbo... This person needs to just contact an attorney ASAP.



Sean O'Gorman said:


> Very few insurance matters go to court because of the expense of litigation, especially on the defense side. You do not need an attorney. If the rider were to somehow come back, claim injury, and not be able to settle with Uber, then they would file a lawsuit. At that point, Uber's insurance provides you with a defense attorney, assuming you are even called in.


This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. Get a lawyer now, don't depend on Uber to do the work for you. Many insurance claims go to court.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

PartTimeUberBoston said:


> This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. Get a lawyer now, don't depend on Uber to do the work for you. Many insurance claims go to court.


Sean is an Uber shill, openly enticing drivers into driving illegally insured.

And yes, if the driver in question gets dragged into an injury claim, which doesn't even HAVE to be bodily injury, then the driver in question will be screwed and should have an attorney. He shouldn't even be providing the details of the accident here as it could prove detrimental to his case because as we know:

Anything you say can be used against you, particularly if you are not legally insured. Part of Uber's fine print SEZ that drivers have to maintain a personal auto policy. They assuredly do NOT say that it can be an illegal policy.

Does Uber give a shit about this blatant oversight? Uh, no. They could give a shit less.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

An initial attorney consult is free. It might seem like overkill but I would take advantage of it. You probably don't know the extent of your passenger's injuries. Many things show up days, weeks and years later and can be sued over. You might be more injured than you think. Hopefully you are Ok, but you never know.

I have experience as the plaintive or injured party. My experience is the plaintive along with the lawyer decide if they will see you in court and not settle. Likewise you might have a case against the other driver as a plaintive as well.

Hopefully since nobody seems injured, you will just get your car fixed and have nothing else happen. But insurance adjusters try to get out of paying for things all the time. The insurance adjusters might even try to bluff and claim no responsibility when they actually should pay. 

That is how I ended up with an attorney. I had a police report showing the other guy ran a stop sign. Pretty open and shut for me. Not with the opposing insurance adjuster who try to blame me. An attorney can at least point out your rights and read your insurance policy and help you if it ever gets that far. There are millions of accidents that are just routine.


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## PartTimeUberBoston (Sep 30, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Sean is an Uber shill, openly enticing drivers into driving illegally insured.
> 
> And yes, if the driver in question gets dragged into an injury claim, which doesn't even HAVE to be bodily injury, then the driver in question will be screwed and should have an attorney. He shouldn't even be providing the details of the accident here as it could prove detrimental to his case because as we know:
> 
> ...


Well said Scru - however, if the poster wants to regal all of us with his accident, that's fine. It's not my dime on the line in terms of this incident. However, I do believe he will be in for a rude awakening as the issues of insurance on this are significant. If this was a significant impact on the vehicle, there could be whiplash involved too. I am not a lawyer (I did go to law school for a year though - before I decided I wanted to do b-school instead and earn my MBA) but I know well enough when something like this happens you ALWAYS retain an attorney to protect your assets.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

OK, I'm done with the insurance insight, for good. You guys keep being idiots and spread your misinformation. What would I know about the subject, I'm only the sole person on this site with active experience handling insurance claims of personal lines and commercial lines nature.


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## PartTimeUberBoston (Sep 30, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> OK, I'm done with the insurance insight, for good. You guys keep being idiots and spread your misinformation. What would I know about the subject, I'm only the sole person on this site with active experience handling insurance claims of personal lines and commercial lines nature.


What "Misinformation"? In speaking with my automobile insurance company, they flat out told me that if you use your personal vehicle for Uber, you are not in compliance with your personal automobile insurance policy in Massachusetts. Period. Furthermore, I spoke with a commercial insurance policy rep for the same company, and they verified what my agent said on the personal side of the house. So if you want to continue to assume the risk and drive as an under-insured person, that's your right to do so. However, to advise the original poster that there is no risk of the passenger in suing them is just plain wrong.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

We'll buddy I might be the only guy with real world experience of having gone into the system and dealing with multiple insurance adjusters for health and auto repair. Your personal slights and insults damage your credibility when you have no idea who you are talking to.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> OK, I'm done with the insurance insight, for good. You guys keep being idiots and spread your misinformation. What would I know about the subject, I'm only the sole person on this site with active experience handling insurance claims of personal lines and commercial lines nature.


Sean, many of us have told you *we called our own insurance agents/companies and found out the truth.
*
*STOP LYING!*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

PartTimeUberBoston said:


> Well said Scru - however, if the poster wants to regal all of us with his accident, that's fine. It's not my dime on the line in terms of this incident. However, I do believe he will be in for a rude awakening as the issues of insurance on this are significant. If this was a significant impact on the vehicle, there could be whiplash involved too. I am not a lawyer (I did go to law school for a year though - before I decided I wanted to do b-school instead and earn my MBA) but I know well enough when something like this happens you ALWAYS retain an attorney to protect your assets.


I had a friend who was in an accident. No injuries to anyone. It was almost insignificant. The people in the other car were elderly, in their 80's. They sued for 'loss of cohabitation' which in legal terms meant they claimed the accident adversely affected their SEX LIVES.

Insurance company paid out an outrageous sum and it didn't even get to court. Imagine getting caught in that trap butt naked on insurance? Loss of cohabitation might be a living reality for the driver in that case too! After he's screwed.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Sean, many of us have told you *we called our own insurance agents/companies and found out the truth.
> *
> *STOP LYING!*


As the judge slammed down the gavel and found for the plaintiff in the amount of 2.3 million dollars, the defendant was heard to say...."but your honor....this guy Sean O'Gorman on an internet forum said I was "good to drive"".


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> OK, I'm done with the insurance insight, for good. You guys keep being idiots and spread your misinformation. What would I know about the subject, I'm only the sole person on this site with active experience handling insurance claims of personal lines and commercial lines nature.


......you may be well intentioned.......but I am glad as hell that you are not MY agent.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

If you are poor most likely an attorney would not sue. Most of these accidents tend to be minor. Don't worry too much, but when there is free advice to be had from attorneys, it might be worth it to find out. But if there are injuries then attorneys get involved but even this situation is run of the mill. The attorneys handle so many cases and try to settle to get onto the next case. It sounds more than a minor fender bender if your door will not open.


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## SF CURBSERVER (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't know. But I have a friend who's insurance company knows he drives for uber and there cool with it. Just the regular insurance too not commercial


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

SF CURBSERVER said:


> I don't know. But I have a friend who's insurance company knows he drives for uber and there cool with it. Just the regular insurance too not commercial


By all means please hunt down the name of that company *for verifications. *

1,000,000 part time U.S. Uber drivers may be on their doorstep tomorrow.

Anyone who sez 'a friend sez' or 'I think' is wasting their breath. The only thing that matters is what the insurance company sez.


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## SF CURBSERVER (Oct 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> By all means please hunt down the name of that company *for verifications. *
> 
> 1,000,000 part time U.S. Uber drivers may be on their doorstep tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone who sez 'a friend sez' or 'I think' is wasting their breath. The only thing that matters is what the insurance company sez.


I can't tell you which insurance company. It's a secret but I'm thinking of switching my AAA to them


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

SF CURBSERVER said:


> I can't tell you which insurance company. It's a secret but I'm thinking of switching my AAA to them


If it's a secret then it's the usual. Bullshit.


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## SF CURBSERVER (Oct 15, 2014)

No it's not. I was surprised when he told me. Asked are u sure it's not commercial. He assured me it's not. I havnt switched cuz I paid my insurance for a year already and I'm a cheapskate.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

SF CURBSERVER said:


> No it's not. I was surprised when he told me. Asked are u sure it's not commercial. He assured me it's not. I havnt switched cuz I paid my insurance for a year already and I'm a cheapskate.


If you can't provide the name of an insurance company or at least make a phone call first to verify it yourself and then let us know, it's still bullshit.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

I was thinking of calling Esurance national office to see if the supposedly NEW California state regs there are forcing them to cover ride share drivers on personal auto policies they issue.

Any takers? Their number is readily available online to call.


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## SF CURBSERVER (Oct 15, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> If you can't provide the name of an insurance company or at least make a phone call first to verify it yourself and then let us know, it's still bullshit.


Might ask later in the day for you. I really want to switch. Just too feel safer


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

SF CURBSERVER said:


> I don't know. But I have a friend who's insurance company knows he drives for uber and there cool with it. Just the regular insurance too not commercial


BS


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

SF CURBSERVER said:


> No it's not. I was surprised when he told me. Asked are u sure it's not commercial. He assured me it's not. I havnt switched cuz I paid my insurance for a year already and I'm a cheapskate.


You will get the balance refunded when you cancel, they can only pro rate for the time you were covered.... but then again, there is no insurance that covers Uber now is there.


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## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> OK, I'm done with the insurance insight, for good. You guys keep being idiots and spread your misinformation. What would I know about the subject, I'm only the sole person on this site with active experience handling insurance claims of personal lines and commercial lines nature.


sean, read all the uber agreements, they specifically state the driver will shield uber and its officers from all liability. how are they going to protect you if you are their shield?


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> OK, I'm done with the insurance insight, for good. You guys keep being idiots and spread your misinformation. What would I know about the subject, I'm only the sole person on this site with active experience handling insurance claims of personal lines and commercial lines nature.


Anyone who takes legal advise from anyone on this site is being stupid and lazy. We are all anonymous. Half the people on this site could work for Uber, the other half could be writing their blog entries from prison. Point is, when you have found yourself in a situation which potentially could **** you up legally and financially, why would you put any credibility in anything any of us say? Contact a lawyer. It will be difficult enough for you to find a lawyer who is not a self serving snake who only sees dollar signs in his pocket. If you feel like sharing your stories about how Uber treated you through this entire process, I'd be very interested in hearing that.


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## PartTimeUberBoston (Sep 30, 2014)

timmyolo said:


> sean, read all the uber agreements, they specifically state the driver will shield uber and its officers from all liability. how are they going to protect you if you are their shield?


They aren't... Uber has it set up that the liability falls on the operator and limits any liability on their shoulders. You assume a great risk in operating as a driver for Uber. After much though and discussion with friends and family, I decided that the risk associated with it doesn't warrant me continuing on with them. However, my tolerance for risk is low, since I have a family, house, primary job, assets, and etc. The money on the side was nice, but not enough to stay driving even limited hours.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

PartTimeUberBoston said:


> They aren't... Uber has it set up that the liability falls on the operator and limits any liability on their shoulders. You assume a great risk in operating as a driver for Uber. After much though and discussion with friends and family, I decided that the risk associated with it doesn't warrant me continuing on with them. However, my tolerance for risk is low, since I have a family, house, primary job, assets, and etc. The money on the side was nice, but not enough to stay driving even limited hours.


BravO for excellent advice to Uber drivers in general. TRUTHFUL information is valuable information, period.

And to Reality Shark as well. The role of the INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR is to be what? What?

Yeah.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

Orlando_Driver said:


> Prepare for the lawsuit from the rider...did you tell the cop you were driving for Uber ?


i've heard nothing from the driver whatsoever. my slightly bruised ankle was fine the next day. i doubt i'll hear anything from him.

yes, i told the cops. i'm not in the habit of lying about things that aren't illegal.

just got off the phone with an insurance adjuster. said she doesn't think they have uninsured motorist coverage, so it'll probably be collision with the $1000 deductible. which sucks a wee bit, obviously...


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## Greg (Sep 30, 2014)

i'm glad that i quit the uber


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## yoo (Jun 24, 2014)

SF CURBSERVER said:


> I don't know. But I have a friend who's insurance company knows he drives for uber and there cool with it. Just the regular insurance too not commercial


They are probably an agent. They dont care if you drive for Uber as long as they get their cut of your premium. When you get in accident its the insurance company that will deny him.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

so, to keep the thread up to date - after unexplained delays, the apprasier came out and i got the estimate for repairs. 4200 bucks. yeesh. james river insurance has issued the check at this point, so i just need the deductible and then i can get it fixed. 

unfortunately i've been having no luck in borrowing the deductible so far, so i'm feeling screwed. ...more screwed the usual, i mean.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

arklan said:


> so, to keep the thread up to date - after unexplained delays, the apprasier came out and i got the estimate for repairs. 4200 bucks. yeesh. james river insurance has issued the check at this point, so i just need the deductible and then i can get it fixed.
> 
> unfortunately i've been having no luck in borrowing the deductible so far, so i'm feeling screwed. ...more screwed the usual, i mean.


Two points... You got the money but you feel screwed?? You don't have $1000 to cover it???

I honestly don't know which comment to think is the more stupid/sad or whatever word might apply.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Two points... You got the money but you feel screwed?? You don't have $1000 to cover it???
> 
> I honestly don't know which comment to think is the more stupid/sad or whatever word might apply.


as discussed elsewhere in this thread: no i don't have $1000. i'm nearly paycheck to paycheck. sorry i'm not rich.

obviously, i'm not screwed in that sense. i meant screwed that, since the other guy was at fault, he or his insurance should be covering all of it, but since he bolted, i'm screwed even though i did nothing wrong.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

arklan said:


> as discussed elsewhere in this thread: no i don't have $1000. i'm nearly paycheck to paycheck. sorry i'm not rich.
> 
> obviously, i'm not screwed in that sense. i meant screwed that, since the other guy was at fault, he or his insurance should be covering all of it, but since he bolted, i'm screwed even though i did nothing wrong.


That is why these fares are too low. It's bad enough trying to scratch out a few bucks if nothing goes wrong. But one event like this wipes out many weeks of any net profit there may have been. I got a windshield rock chip on a ride. The crack spread to two feet across. So there just went $350 up in smoke obliterating about 40 hours of driving profit. Also be glad you weren't driving for Lyft: their deductible is $2,500. If you gamble long enough, the house is probably going to win their money back, and then some. This is why minimum wage jobs are probably better in the long run.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Hey Arklan, I don't mean to beat you up. I've been down, I mean dead broke before. Back somewhere in the early 90's I was so broke once I actually had to go to a neighbors house and ask if I could borrow ten bucks to go to a job interview. He lent it to me, I got the job and that started my climb back up after losing a business I had put about 20k into, and back then that was a whooooole lot of money. The key is it's always ok to go broke. You'd be surprised at how many "rich" people have been so broke they have better stories than my ten bucks for gas. Mark Cuban has his famous Ketchup sandwich story for example. What's not acceptable it thinking that's the way it is for you. Being broke should always be temporary, and something you can fix. Think outside the box, what can you do to raise 100 bucks, what can you sell, what can you offer in return for a no interest loan from someone. The bottom line is YOU have to want it. If you want it you will think of a way, then you will think of ways to get more. It's just the way life works.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

grams777 said:


> That is why these fares are too low. It's bad enough trying to make anything if nothing goes wrong. But one event like this wipes out many weeks of any net profit there may have been. I got a windshield rock chip on a ride. The crack spread to two feet across. So there just went $350 up in smoke obliterating about 40 hours of driving profit.


That's a valid point. You have to figure the total real cost of driving. Self employment means you're going to have lousy weeks and great weeks. But... if your baseline profit is only 350 from 40 hours from this and this alone, it's not worth it by any stretch.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

arklan said:


> as discussed elsewhere in this thread: no i don't have $1000. i'm nearly paycheck to paycheck. sorry i'm not rich.
> 
> obviously, i'm not screwed in that sense. i meant screwed that, since the other guy was at fault, he or his insurance should be covering all of it, but since he bolted, i'm screwed even though i did nothing wrong.


I think your account captured a certain amount of ambiguous territory for financial responsibility that can be typical in a LOT of accidents. It's not always cut and dried about 'who' is at fault and why. However MOST insurance companies in a primary insurance position covers the driver (YOUR) deductible in such situations (a hit and run.) Even if they find the hit and run the other guy usually doesn't have the money either. That's why he ran. And the insurance company can't afford to find him or hound him for $ or chase them for a grand or the whole amount, so they just screw you out of the deductible instead. It's the cheapest alternative.

Clearly you got hung out to dry on that count. But be thankful you at least got something. The next hurdle you'll face is when that unreported accident to your personal auto policy company gets discovered. Then you might wish you never heard of Uber.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> That's a valid point. You have to figure the total real cost of driving. Self employment means you're going to have lousy weeks and great weeks. But... if your baseline profit is only 350 from 40 hours from this and this alone, it's not worth it by any stretch.


I think if you subtract all your costs (depreciation, gas, fees, etc), most drivers will have difficulty truly clearing more than minimum wage. My gross averages over $20 per hour. One guy I know, really hustles hard out here. He does plenty of airport flat rates, surges, tips, cancels long distance pings, etc. The gross fares seem like a lot, but we pencil out all the costs and miles, and at best he truly nets $15 per hour. And very few can even achieve that level, at least here. Now subtract from that, the liability building up for when something goes wrong.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

grams777 said:


> I think if you subtract all your costs (depreciation, gas, fees, etc), most drivers will have difficulty truly clearing more than minimum wage.


Under UberX fares in most locales I think the math is abundantly clear on that count. It may not be for part timers driving surge and busy nights only, but for full timers it's a fact. I doubt very much they will have any taxable income whatsoever.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Under UberX fares in most locales I think the math is abundantly clear on that count. It may not be for part timers driving surge and busy nights only, but for full timers it's a fact. I doubt very much they will have any taxable income whatsoever.


At the current normal fares per mile, it's almost mathematically impossible to have taxable income as an uberx driver unless your dead miles are very minimal. I run about a 30% taxable loss.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

grams777 said:


> At the current normal fares per mile, it's almost mathematically impossible to have taxable income as an uberx driver unless your dead miles are very minimal.


Uh, yeah. No taxable income means it's dramatically LESS than minimum wage. It's no wage whatsoever.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> That's a valid point. You have to figure the total real cost of driving. Self employment means you're going to have lousy weeks and great weeks. But... if your baseline profit is only 350 from 40 hours from this and this alone, it's not worth it by any stretch.


In my 9 years as a cabbie and 19 as a private car operator I'm always ferreting away $100 p/week when I put a car on. Once the balance gets to 5k which should be the case in the first year of operation.

With that in the bank, a blown motor, transmission or forced holiday because a car has accident damage can be immediately funded. It sits in a mortgage offset account for a rainy day.

But for this safety net to exist there needs to be a fair return and clear margin on each job - that just cant seem possible on UBERX rates


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

grams777 said:


> That is why these fares are too low. It's bad enough trying to scratch out a few bucks if nothing goes wrong. But one event like this wipes out many weeks of any net profit there may have been. I got a windshield rock chip on a ride. The crack spread to two feet across. So there just went $350 up in smoke obliterating about 40 hours of driving profit. Also be glad you weren't driving for Lyft: their deductible is $2,500. If you gamble long enough, the house is probably going to win their money back, and then some. This is why minimum wage jobs are probably better in the long run.


But you can earn $1500/week in Austin (according to some job posts ... Haha...)


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> In my 9 years as a cabbie and 19 as a private car operator I'm always ferreting away $100 p/week when I put a car on. Once the balance gets to 5k which should be the case in the first year of operation.
> 
> With that in the bank, a blown motor, transmission or forced holiday because a car has accident damage can be immediately funded. It sits in a mortgage offset account for a rainy day.
> 
> But for this safety net to exist there needs to be a fair return and clear margin on each job - that just cant seem possible on UBERX rates


It's not workable for the individual driver in any length of time scenario. But there are so many drivers to churn through that overall it will just take awhile.

Drivers catch on fast though. It only took me a couple of days (cumulative) to figure out that driving X without surge is just an incredible waste of time and $. Now I either get the fares that can support the gig finanically or I don't drive (surge/airport 2 ways.) A lot of drivers just don't have anything better to do. But sooner or later they figure out that doing UberX for the crap pay *(yes, it's ZERO)* is far too much brain damage and risk to do for nothing.

You quickly come to hate both Uber and pax. And that is being expressed here, often.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Hey Arklan, I don't mean to beat you up. I've been down, I mean dead broke before. Back somewhere in the early 90's I was so broke once I actually had to go to a neighbors house and ask if I could borrow ten bucks to go to a job interview. He lent it to me, I got the job and that started my climb back up after losing a business I had put about 20k into, and back then that was a whooooole lot of money. The key is it's always ok to go broke. You'd be surprised at how many "rich" people have been so broke they have better stories than my ten bucks for gas. Mark Cuban has his famous Ketchup sandwich story for example. What's not acceptable it thinking that's the way it is for you. Being broke should always be temporary, and something you can fix. Think outside the box, what can you do to raise 100 bucks, what can you sell, what can you offer in return for a no interest loan from someone. The bottom line is YOU have to want it. If you want it you will think of a way, then you will think of ways to get more. It's just the way life works.


yea, i know. i've had a rough few years, but i know i can climb back up. just need to be able to stay on my feet. hence uber driving. until this, i was staying on my feet, and was just getting other projects going that, i hope, lead to my own business in time.



scrurbscrud said:


> I think your account captured a certain amount of ambiguous territory for financial responsibility that can be typical in a LOT of accidents. It's not always cut and dried about 'who' is at fault and why. However MOST insurance companies in a primary insurance position covers the driver (YOUR) deductible in such situations (a hit and run.) Even if they find the hit and run the other guy usually doesn't have the money either. That's why he ran. And the insurance company can't afford to find him or hound him for $ or chase them for a grand or the whole amount, so they just screw you out of the deductible instead. It's the cheapest alternative.
> 
> Clearly you got hung out to dry on that count. But be thankful you at least got something. The next hurdle you'll face is when that unreported accident to your personal auto policy company gets discovered. Then you might wish you never heard of Uber.


ugh... i hadn't even thought about my personal insurance finding out... sigh.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

arklan said:


> yea, i know. i've had a rough few years, but i know i can climb back up. just need to be able to stay on my feet. hence uber driving. until this, i was staying on my feet, and was just getting other projects going that, i hope, lead to my own business in time.
> 
> ugh... i hadn't even thought about my personal insurance finding out... sigh.


I don't see how that would matter anyhow, it's a not at fault accident and your company didn't have to pay out a dime.


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## tallnfla (Oct 13, 2014)

If you are driving straight and someone crosses your path then they are wrog unless you run a stop sign or traffic light etc. Guy pulled out and hit the side of your car. Simple he is at fault. Not rocket science here or maybe for ppl living in the patato country lol


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

yea, no one, police, insurance, uber, no one is trying to say i'm at fault.


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## tallnfla (Oct 13, 2014)

good. keep on them and get your your money. Milk um like a fat cow


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

arklan said:


> yea, i know. i've had a rough few years, but i know i can climb back up. just need to be able to stay on my feet. hence uber driving. until this, i was staying on my feet, and was just getting other projects going that, i hope, lead to my own business in time.
> 
> ugh... i hadn't even thought about my personal insurance finding out... sigh.


I might suggest you tell them, if asked, that it was minor damage less than deducible that you didn't want to claim UNLESS they actually look at the accident report and see JAMES RIVER. Then you may be in for some dancing...


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> But you can earn $1500/week in Austin (according to some job posts ... Haha...)


Under the old higher rates, one week I did gross about $1,500. But I put about 90 hours in. After fees and all expenses, it only came out to about $7.50 per hour. $1,500 - 300 comm - 120 safe ride fees - $400 in miles (1,000 miles x .40) = $680 true net. Divide by 90 hours. $7.50.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> I don't see how that would matter anyhow, it's a not at fault accident and your company didn't have to pay out a dime.


Some insurance companies will cancel you if they find out you are driving for Uber or Lyft. It doesn't matter if an accident is involved or not, but sometimes that's how they find out.


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## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

grams777 said:


> Some insurance companies will cancel you if they find out you are driving for Uber or Lyft. It doesn't matter if an accident is involved or not, but sometimes that's how they find out.


insert innocent whistle here.


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## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

arklan said:


> so friday night i go out to start my night. first ping i get is a decent trip to downtown. a mile from his destination, i'm rolling down the street in the right lane, obeying lights and not speeding or anything, and wham! didn't see anything, thought i hit a curb or something.
> 
> then i see in the lane next to me a buy looking at me with the fear of god in his eyes and a damaged bumper. follow him, stop on the road side, get out, see my passenger side slightly caved in, from middle of the front door back. front door still opens, back is screwed. no one hurt, thank god.
> 
> ...


Two words COMMERCIAL INSURANCE.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

uberdc/Virginia said:


> I know a little bit about accidents. Lane change accidents are tough to prove who is at fault. However, a jury would probably have very little sympathy for a hit and run if that is what happened. So you might have a strong case. Insurance company adjusters are psycho and will call white black and black white. Definitely get a lawyer just so you don't have to fight directly with trained adjusters who are programmed to deny claims all day long. If somebody claims an injury get a lawyer for your own defense. If you are injured get a lawyer quickly.


Check your state laws. Here if you are on the road illegally you are automatically at fault.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

Well I cautiously read this post and first want to say a thank you for the "caring" responses to that guy.

I mean he is "anonymous " here I guess and so it should be fine to write about it and ask for opinions and what to do now.
That's what a forum like this is for in generally.

I am not 100% sure about the insurance situation in Dallas, but here in CA the situation should have probably changed a lot towards our safety after the Public Utility Commission officially legalized us. As seen at SFO even the Airport has legalized us and the ****ing Insurance companies now have to deal with the new reality of ridesharing.

I only drive weekends so for what reason would it make any sense to get a TCP permit and commercial insurance all the time ?? NONE !
As I know in the state of California Uber and Ridesharing is now legal and I read somewhere that Uber is to be held responsible even in the case that another motorist isn't covered by any insurance.
Yes YOUR personal insurance of course will not cover the damage since you also said that you had a passenger at that moment - so guess what Uber's commercial Insurance will have to pay for your damage and gladly no one was hurt !

At least in CA : even if you have no passenger in the car during the time you are logged into the Uber app you should have commercial Uber's Insurance active.
They wrote somewhere I think it was in an email sent to us that they stated that if we have full coverage also the damage on our cars would be covered, but if we only have basic coverage,
we only have basic coverage means if you cause an accident they will only pay the damage you caused to someone else.

In your situation it's another motorist's fault and unfortunately he has no insurance, gladly you called the cops !

Yes I would be interested to know what happened in your case and if Uber paid or whoever someone definitely has to pay. 

Actually something similar happened to me in April while I only was driving for Sidecar at that time.
It was before we got legalized by PUC and I had no active ride at that moment.
That guy hit me on the 110FW in Downtown and tried to get away, I chased him down to exits later and had police on the phone explaining what happened.
She told me not to follow the car - I still did. 

CHP came and found out that this guy had no DL and also no insurance.
In the end He offered me to get my car repaired at his friends bodyshop and I also got a rental car for one week.
However I couldn't drive for Uber with a rental car of course.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> I only drive weekends so for what reason would it make any sense to get a TCP permit and commercial insurance all the time ?? NONE !.


If they offer part time permits and insurance...it makes no sense. But if they don't, then a part time driver is no different than any other car for hire operatir who opts to leave a sedan parked in their yard during the week. They still have to be permitted and insured.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

grams777 said:


> Some insurance companies will cancel you if they find out you are driving for Uber or Lyft. It doesn't matter if an accident is involved or not, but sometimes that's how they find out.


How many actually confirmed cases do you know of this actually happening?



SDUberdriver said:


> Two words COMMERCIAL INSURANCE.


how do u get commercial insurance on your private vehicle ,with regular plates, and regular driver's license?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> How many actually confirmed cases do you know of this actually happening?
> 
> how do u get commercial insurance on your private vehicle ,with regular plates, and regular driver's license?


For starters:
https://uberpeople.net/threads/insure-co-m-expert-answers-my-question.6389/#post-77800


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