# Overdose



## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

I’m writing this to put drivers on notice. I’m in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I’m talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od’d in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn’t realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver). 

Carry Narcan or not, I’m not saying it’s a drivers job, just don’t be so naive to think addicts don’t use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD’ing


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

Have you had a driver named @Benjamin M lately?


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

TemptingFate said:


> Have you had a driver named @Benjamin M lately?


this has not happened in almost 2 years


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

It is probably helpful for you to share your experience, but I don’t think a significant portion of drivers will ever be properly prepared to deal with drug abuse or overdosing. It isn’t a driver’s job, as you said, but it’s also not something many drivers are going to be reasonably ready for, besides being willing to dial 911 in a medical emergency.

Drivers generally find it difficult to worry about this on top of driving safely and doing the job appropriately for their less troubled passengers. There is no additional training, pay, experience, insurance, or preparedness that will make a typical driver any more capable of dealing with such a situation than any other passerby or non-specialized service worker.

Uber and Lyft also provide zero support on this issue, and would be quick to deactivate a driver if a medical intervention for a passenger went wrong.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


I thank you for your honesty. Genuinely. I, like many Americans, have had issues with alcohol and tobacco over the years. But those are less taboo in our society, which makes it harder for people dealing with drug addiction to come forward.

I would be more than happy to carry Narcan if I could afford it. And I, unlike so many drivers here, am not at all afraid of doing whatever it takes to help *anyone *in need.

@TemptingFate mentioned me because of this thread - https://uberpeople.net/threads/pax-shooting-up-in-my-car.381089/

What made you decide to create this thread? And welcome, by the way.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I would carry Narcan if I could easily acquire it.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> It is probably helpful for you to share your experience, but I don't think a significant portion of drivers will ever be properly prepared to deal with drug abuse or overdosing. It isn't a driver's job, as you said, but it's also not something many drivers are going to be reasonably ready for, besides being willing to dial 911 in a medical emergency.
> 
> Drivers generally find it difficult to worry about this on top of driving safely and doing the job appropriately for their less troubled passengers. There is no additional training, pay, experience, insurance, or preparedness that will make a typical driver any more capable of dealing with such a situation than any other passerby or non-specialized service worker.


No I'm sure most drivers won't be out in the situation I unfortunately put drivers in. But at the same time, I was reading many drivers thinking this could never happen to them. That's all, and the only reason I wrote this. While I was in rehab 2 years ago, I met others who used Uber like I did, so I'm surely not the only one. Also met some who used Uber to carry/sell drugs as they felt, (maybe incorrectly) they had less liability or less chances of being caught.



Benjamin M said:


> I thank you for your honesty. Genuinely. I, like many Americans, have had issues with alcohol and tobacco over the years. But those are less taboo in our society, which makes it harder for people dealing with drug addiction to come forward.
> 
> I would be more than happy to carry Narcan if I could afford it. And I, unlike so many drivers here, am not at all afraid of doing whatever it takes to help *anyone *in need.
> 
> ...


I only started this thread to hopefully help someone down the road, in any aspect, rider or driver.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I would carry Narcan if I could easily acquire it.


It's available OTC but unfortunately can be expensive.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Apec said:


> just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


Don't look to criticise drivers by calling them naive. Don't you be naive by believing that drivers care if you're an addict or not. If you choose to put that shit in your body that's on you.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

If there is someone drugged out in my car, i am more worried about myself. If they pass out, I can call 911. Done.


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## Zebonkey (Feb 2, 2016)

Better not OD in my car, because I have empathy of a brick and I'm a strong supporter of natural selection.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Zebonkey said:


> *Symptom: I have empathy of a brick *


Diagnosis:
Psychopathy is a personality *disorder* characterized by a *lack of empathy* and remorse, shallow affect, glibness, manipulation and callousness.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-09/f-anb092313.php


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

Aaannnndd you think we are stupid enough NOT to know your scoring drugs on these A to B and Back to A runs??? Really? We are just pissed cuz you refuse to share....


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


We know, trust and believe, we know.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> Diagnosis:
> Psychopathy is a personality *disorder* characterized by a *lack of empathy* and remorse, shallow affect, glibness, manipulation and callousness.
> https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-09/f-anb092313.php


What about narcissists, though? They also lack empathy, plus they'd be very pissed off at you for leaving them out and not considering them as a possibility.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


Personal responsibility for your own actions. 
Sympathy to your family when you die is the best you will get from me. 
You KNOW you have a problem. 
You Admit you have a problem. 
You do nothing effective to stop your problem.

Not
My
Problem.

Seek help getting out from under your addiction.

Do not expect someone who isn't a medical professional to save your life.

I know that sounds harsh but read my user name.

You don't think about recovery. 
You don't think about solutions. 
You don't think about figuring out why you started self medicating. 
You don't truly think you are worth saving... Or you would put the honest work into it.


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

Wow, score shoot and return in five. Impressed.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

Yo guys. In response to all, I am not asking for remorse or saying drivers should do this or that. I'm the asshole who put people in that crappy situation and it really stinks. But, that's in the past and now is foolish if that information can't be used to help another driver or rider . I stumbled onto this site randomly. 
In response to the guy I'm replying to, I did all u said and now almost 2 years clean. Only thing I was saying is, I read many people posting how they would know if someone is using, they would cancel the ride, they would leave if a rider took person to a stop....all that. I only say, sometimes sure it's obvious. For others, it's not.
Unless you don't make a scheduled atop for a rider at a drugstore, gas station, or office building, you would have unknowingly done the same.
Thanks. Hope this helps someone. Bye



Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Personal responsibility for your own actions.
> Sympathy to your family when you die is the best you will get from me.
> You KNOW you have a problem.
> You Admit you have a problem.
> ...


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> What about narcissists, though? They also lack empathy, plus they'd be very pissed off at you for leaving them out and not considering them as a possibility.


There are many differences between *psychopaths* and *narcissists*. *Narcissists* tend to overvalue themselves at the expense of others.

https://curiosity.com/topics/5-ways-to-spot-psychopaths-and-narcissists-curiosity/


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> There are many differences between *psychopaths* and *narcissists*. *Narcissists* tend to overvalue themselves at the expense of others.
> 
> https://curiosity.com/topics/5-ways-to-spot-psychopaths-and-narcissists-curiosity/


Of course there are differences between a narcissist and a psychopath. :rollseyes:

The point is that the guy said he has no empathy and you diagnosed him as a psychopath. However, you omitted the possibility that he could be a narcissist. Narcissists also lack empathy. Or, he could simply have no empathy but not be either a psychopath or a narcissist.


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## Mazda3 (Jun 21, 2014)

There are a lot of places online that will give you free Narcan. All you have to do is look.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Of course there are differences between a narcissist and a psychopath. :rollseyes:
> 
> The point is that the guy said he has no empathy and you diagnosed him as a psychopath. However, you omitted the possibility that he could be a narcissist. Narcissists also lack empathy. Or, he could simply have no empathy but not be either a psychopath or a narcissist.


......And how does that make you feel?
Abandoned? Insecure? Ignored? Vulnerable ? Agitated?


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> It is probably helpful for you to share your experience, but I don't think a significant portion of drivers will ever be properly prepared to deal with drug abuse or overdosing. It isn't a driver's job, as you said, but it's also not something many drivers are going to be reasonably ready for, besides being willing to dial 911 in a medical emergency.
> 
> Drivers generally find it difficult to worry about this on top of driving safely and doing the job appropriately for their less troubled passengers. There is no additional training, pay, experience, insurance, or preparedness that will make a typical driver any more capable of dealing with such a situation than any other passerby or non-specialized service worker.
> 
> Uber and Lyft also provide zero support on this issue, and would be quick to deactivate a driver if a medical intervention for a passenger went wrong.


Yes, addiction is a sickness due to people making piss poor choices. That said, it would NEVER occur to me to carry narcan to assist some idiot determined to live on the edge.



Apec said:


> No I'm sure most drivers won't be out in the situation I unfortunately put drivers in. But at the same time, I was reading many drivers thinking this could never happen to them. That's all, and the only reason I wrote this. While I was in rehab 2 years ago, I met others who used Uber like I did, so I'm surely not the only one. Also met some who used Uber to carry/sell drugs as they felt, (maybe incorrectly) they had less liability or less chances of being caught.
> 
> 
> I only started this thread to hopefully help someone down the road, in any aspect, rider or driver.


Drivers have enough to deal with & don't need some idiot that can't get their shit together OD in the car.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I would carry Narcan if I could easily acquire it.


This is one of those things I keep telling myself I should definitely have in my car but haven't gotten around to even looking into acquiring. On various FB local groups I've seen several drivers say they carry it. I haven't been driving much lately but will be again soon.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> ......And how does that make you feel?
> Abandoned? Insecure? Ignored? Vulnerable ? Agitated?


Disappointed. I'm going to sue for malpractice.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


Narcan can save lives. But your best bet is recognizing an OD and calling 911.My daughter is a paramedic, and tells me that there is a synthetic heroin on the streets that narcan can only provide temporary results with. The chemical stays in the user's system even after the narcan wears off.Most of us aren't trained for this. It is better to give the rider over to a first responder or an ER if close by. And if they've left any substances in your car, including powdery substance or needles, do not handle them, as you can easily be exposed to this and wind up OD'ing yourself. It only takes a minute amount, or even accidental whiff.Update:fentanyl description:https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/fentanyl.htmlWhat to look for and how to react:https://drugabuse.com/fentanyl/overdose/https://www.rehabs.com/listings/laguna-treatment-hospital-1059292412/
https://www.rehabs.com/listings/enlightened-solutions-detox-45658440/
https://www.rehabs.com/listings/midwest-recovery-centers-3486429839/
*Fentanyl Overdose*
Table of Contents
AUTHORED BY Lauren Brande, MA
EDITED BY Meredith Watkins, MA, MFT
Fentanyl (brand names include Actiq, Duragesic, and Sublimaze) is a very powerful synthetic opioid painkiller medication that is 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine 1.
Individuals who abuse or struggle with addiction to fentanyl put themselves at high risk of overdose. In fact, in 2015 alone, *33,091 people died due to overdose on opioids* like fentanyl 2. Learning how to recognize the indications of a fentanyl overdose and getting professional substance abuse treatment may save a life.
*Signs and Symptoms of Fentanyl Overdose*
*F*entanyl overdoses can be deadly, so it is vital that you call 911 right away if you suspect an overdose may have occurred. A person overdosing on fentanyl may present with the following overdose signs and symptoms 3, 4:


Pinpoint pupils.
Weak muscles.
Dizziness.
Confusion.
Extreme sleepiness.
Loss of consciousness.
Profoundly slowed heart beat.
Very low blood pressure.
Dangerously slowed or stopped breathing.
Bluish tint to nails and lips.


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## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

If you were to OD in my car, you would not receive any help from me.
I wouldn't call 911. I would pull over at the drop of spot and leave you where you fall.

Now you can get all the free Methadone or Suboxone.

While you're getting high on Methadone or Suboxone you can think about how cancer patients have to pay for Chemotherapy.

Drug addicts receive ZERO pity from me.


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## ABQuber (Jan 30, 2019)

I do carry Narcan, but only because I get pain meds prescribed to me and it comes with it. Never had to use it thankfully but I wouldn’t hesitate.

If I did ever use it, I’d call 911 immediately after.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Iann said:


> If you were to OD in my car, you would not receive any help from me.
> I wouldn't call 911. I would pull over at the drop of spot and leave you where you fall.
> 
> Now you can get all the free Methadone or Suboxone.
> ...


Let me guess... Republican? Heartless, at least.

You could be on the hook for kicking someone to the curb like that.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> It is probably helpful for you to share your experience, but I don't think a significant portion of drivers will ever be properly prepared to deal with drug abuse or overdosing. It isn't a driver's job, as you said, but it's also not something many drivers are going to be reasonably ready for, besides being willing to dial 911 in a medical emergency.
> 
> Drivers generally find it difficult to worry about this on top of driving safely and doing the job appropriately for their less troubled passengers. There is no additional training, pay, experience, insurance, or preparedness that will make a typical driver any more capable of dealing with such a situation than any other passerby or non-specialized service worker.
> 
> Uber and Lyft also provide zero support on this issue, and would be quick to deactivate a driver if a medical intervention for a passenger went wrong.


I am tempted to carry Narcan.
I drive New Orleans.

Odds are good of using it within a year.
If not on a passenger
On a passerby.

Narcan can Prevent Opiate overdose death.

( i posted an article on this, Long ago )


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## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> Let me guess... Republican? Heartless, at least.
> 
> You could be on the hook for kicking someone to the curb like that.


Lol. Not a Republican.

There would be zero chance of getting in trouble.
Police around where I'm at would be thanking me for doing my part of community service.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> I am tempted to carry Narcan.
> I drive New Orleans.
> 
> Odds are good of using it within a year.
> ...


Yeah, there are good pro-social reasons for carrying medical supplies, much like carrying a first aid kit or water in the car. I don't think I'd carry Narcan unless it were provided free through a community or government source.

I do keep an emergency supply of fresh water under my trunk floor for anyone who needs it. That's not really a drive-for-hire deal. I always carry it for me or anyone in need.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Iann said:


> View attachment 421281
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not true. Good Sumaritan laws protect you if you stay until help arrives. But if you bail, they are going to investigate it criminally.


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## Zebonkey (Feb 2, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> Psychopathy is a personality *disorder* characterized by a *lack of empathy* and remorse, shallow affect, glibness, manipulation and callousness.


You say it like it's a bad thing.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> Yeah, there are good pro-social reasons for carrying medical supplies, much like carrying a first aid kit or water in the car. I don't think I'd carry Narcan unless it were provided free through a community or government source.
> 
> I do keep an emergency supply of fresh water under my trunk floor for anyone who needs it. That's not really a drive-for-hire deal. I always carry it for me or anyone in need.


YOU NEVER FORGET THE FACE OF THE DYING.

You can Change the Outcome.
With the Right Tools

Then again
You may " save" someone who goes on to kill others.

Ive seen it happen.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> YOU NEVER FORGET THE FACE OF THE DYING.


It is true. If anyone ever died in your arms, you'll have that etched into your memory.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

IR12 said:


> Yes, addiction is a sickness due to people making piss poor choices. That said, it would NEVER occur to me to carry narcan to assist some idiot determined to live on the edge.
> 
> 
> Drivers have enough to deal with & don't need some idiot that can't get their shit together OD in the car.


Hey man I agree with you and I think it's real unfortunate drivers could be put in this situation. I'm not saying anything else or saying drivers should do this or that. Yea, you girls/guys do put up with a lot during a work shift and this sure shouldn't be one of those things. I still use Uber. $500-750/month and thank god for the service. Again, I only wrote the post to hopefully help another driver or rider in the future.


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## Mtbsrfun (May 25, 2019)

IthurstwhenIP said:


> Wow, score shoot and return in five. Impressed.


There's more than one way to skin a cat



Mazda3 said:


> There are a lot of places online that will give you free Narcan. All you have to do is look.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


Unfortunately a driver is a lot less likely to have a legal problem if an addict dies in their car than if they stick a needle in someone who may or may not need it.

Hit a bone? Infection? Person was actually only drunk and now has been "assaulted"?

I think narcan goes beyond being a "good Samaritan" and even if the pax loses the lawsuit, it's still not good for the driver.



Apec said:


> Hey man I agree with you and I think it's real unfortunate drivers could be put in this situation. I'm not saying anything else or saying drivers should do this or that. Yea, you girls/guys do put up with a lot during a work shift and this sure shouldn't be one of those things. I still use Uber. $500-750/month and thank god for the service. Again, I only wrote the post to hopefully help another driver or rider in the future.


$750 a month? Buy a car.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> $750 a month? Buy a car.


He's too whacked out on Scooby snacks to drive, hence the Ubering.


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> I would carry Narcan if I could easily acquire it.


it's over the counter in California.

Just BTW- Suboxone, (aka buprenorphine) has NALAXONE in it. This can be "prepared" in a syringe to an OD patient and revive them. Just saying.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> Narcan can save lives. But your best bet is recognizing an OD and calling 911.My daughter is a paramedic, and tells me that there is a synthetic heroin on the streets that narcan can only provide temporary results with. The chemical stays in the user's system even after the narcan wears off.Most of us aren't trained for this. It is better to give the rider over to a first responder or an ER if close by. And if they've left any substances in your car, including powdery substance or needles, do not handle them, as you can easily be exposed to this and wind up OD'ing yourself. It only takes a minute amount, or even accidental whiff.Update:fentanyl description:https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/fentanyl.htmlWhat to look for and how to react:https://drugabuse.com/fentanyl/overdose/https://www.rehabs.com/listings/laguna-treatment-hospital-1059292412/
> https://www.rehabs.com/listings/enlightened-solutions-detox-45658440/
> https://www.rehabs.com/listings/midwest-recovery-centers-3486429839/
> *Fentanyl Overdose*
> ...


Former paramedic here.

Multiple doses of Narcan may be necessary and administering it is not a substitute for calling 911 or being taken to the ER.

The main goal for for a civilian (or police officer) administering Narcan is to hopefully restore normal respiratory function until EMS arrives.



tohunt4me said:


> YOU NEVER FORGET THE FACE OF THE DYING.
> 
> You can Change the Outcome.
> With the Right Tools
> ...


Try saving someone that was trying to kill themselves. Just gotta hope that they use the second chance for good.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Unfortunately a driver is a lot less likely to have a legal problem if an addict dies in their car than if they stick a needle in someone who may or may not need it.
> 
> Hit a bone? Infection? Person was actually only drunk and now has been "assaulted"?
> 
> I think narcan goes beyond being a "good Samaritan" and even if the pax loses the lawsuit, it's still not good for the driver.


Do some homework.

OTC Narcan is typically a nasal spray, not a needle. The pharmacist provides training. The drug itself, given to someone not in fact overdosing, is benign.










It is most definitely covered by Good Samaritan laws, which exist to protect civilians from legal action for trying to help someone - so that hopefully people will not be afraid.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Unfortunately a driver is a lot less likely to have a legal problem if an addict dies in their car than if they stick a needle in someone who may or may not need it.
> 
> Hit a bone? Infection? Person was actually only drunk and now has been "assaulted"?
> 
> ...


No license from 2016-2022


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

IR12 said:


> Yes, addiction is a sickness


The only sickness that comes in a can or baggie? No, being a junkie or drunkard is sin and we have a choice in whether we sin or not. Society keeps absolving people from their depraved choices by saying it's not their fault when it is their fault. Personal responsibility is out the window in this country.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Dekero said:


> Aaannnndd you think we are stupid enough NOT to know your scoring drugs on these A to B and Back to A runs??? Really? We are just pissed cuz you refuse to share....
> 
> View attachment 421213


Lol at these pax who think we don't know what's going on in the back seat.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

swathdiver said:


> The only sickness that comes in a can or baggie? No, being a junkie or drunkard is sin and we have a choice in whether we sin or not. Society keeps absolving people from their depraved choices by saying it's not their fault when it is their fault. Personal responsibility is out the window in this country.


This is why we have separation between church and state. Religion is subjective and based on fictional folklore. Science tells us that addiction, regardless of substance or stimuli, can be very debilitating.

You might say that your reaction to science is based on an addiction to a cultist philosophy.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Benjamin M said:


> Former paramedic here.
> 
> Multiple doses of Narcan may be necessary and administering it is not a substitute for calling 911 or being taken to the ER.
> 
> ...


I guess the nasal spray came out in the last 30 years. Did not know. Shows how out of touch with the drug culture I am in my old age.

The law may protect you but it doesn't mean the pax can't try to sue and Uber will still deactivate you.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I guess the nasal spray came out in the last 30 years. Did not know. Shows how out of touch with the drug culture I am in my old age.
> 
> The law may protect you but it doesn't mean the pax can't try to sue and Uber will still deactivate you.


Actually, the laws exist to provide legal protection. And Uber deactivating you for attempting to save a life? No.

You're not alone in being afraid of helping someone, though.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

He said narcan....as if. First sign of OD’n and i’m pulling over and pulling ur body onto the curb and ending the ride. Can’t care for someone who doesn’t care for themselves.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

freddieman said:


> He said narcan....as if. First sign of OD'n and i'm pulling over and pulling ur body onto the curb and ending the ride. Can't care for someone who doesn't care for themselves.


And you'd potentially face some hefty legal consequences.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

freddieman said:


> He said narcan....as if. First sign of OD'n and i'm pulling over and pulling ur body onto the curb and ending the ride. Can't care for someone who doesn't care for themselves.


What if someone slipped them drugs? You should call 911.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> And you'd potentially face some hefty legal consequences.


Hard to prove


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

freddieman said:


> Hard to prove


You drop someone on the curb, they die, they discover that they were in your car through bank statements and Uber records. Extremely easy.

Just be a decent human being. Treat others as you wish to be treated.


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## Kgauthier (Feb 8, 2019)

This topic hits home today. No...I didn't have a rider OD, but I had a guy that I had a gut feeling about today. Super antsy..... had me drop him off about 2 blocks from the destination marker...on his phone texting the whole time... When I dropped him off, I downrated him so that I wouldn't get him again, thinking I don't want to be involved in whatever he's up to. I could be completely off the mark on this one, but I try to remember to trust my gut. Thanks for posting...it is worth thinking about and being aware of for sure.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Kgauthier said:


> This topic hits home today. No...I didn't have a rider OD, but I had a guy that I had a gut feeling about today. Super antsy..... had me drop him off about 2 blocks from the destination marker...on his phone texting the whole time... When I dropped him off, I downrated him so that I wouldn't get him again, thinking I don't want to be involved in whatever he's up to. I could be completely off the mark on this one, but I try to remember to trust my gut. Thanks for posting...it is worth thinking about and being aware of for sure.


And I have someone on video getting high in my back seat.. &#128514;

I wasn't sure until I reviewed the footage. Not only could she have overdosed, I also had drugs and paraphernalia in my car.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I guess the nasal spray came out in the last 30 years. Did not know. Shows how out of touch with the drug culture I am in my old age.
> 
> The law may protect you but it doesn't mean the pax can't try to sue and Uber will still deactivate you.


Any idiot can try to sue you for a million dumb reasons. The fact that you tried to get help isn't usually one of those. And why would you get deactivated?

If you boot someone who's life hangs in the balance, you become part of the problem if they do die, or suffer brain damage from respiratory arrest.

Think about it. You said it yourself. The good samaritan laws protect you. If Bus Bench lawyer tries to sue, you don't want to be the moron who tossed his client to the curb, instead of calling 911.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> Any idiot can try to sue you for a million dumb reasons. The fact that you tried to get help isn't usually one of those. And why would you get deactivated?
> 
> If you boot someone who's life hangs in the balance, you become part of the problem if they do die, or suffer brain damage from respiratory arrest.
> 
> Think about it. You said it yourself. The good samaritan laws protect you. If Bus Bench lawyer tries to sue, you don't want to be the moron who tossed his client to the curb, instead of calling 911.


Very well said.

It's unfortunate that there is this fear and paranoia surrounding helping people. Narcan was made OTC *specifically *so that anyone could save the life of someone overdosing. Being penalized for that? Good luck. However, throwing someone to the curb and taking off? Ohhhhh boy. Even illegal in some states with Duty to Act laws.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> Narcan can save lives. But your best bet is recognizing an OD and calling 911.My daughter is a paramedic, and tells me that there is a synthetic heroin on the streets that narcan can only provide temporary results with. The chemical stays in the user's system even after the narcan wears off.Most of us aren't trained for this. It is better to give the rider over to a first responder or an ER if close by. And if they've left any substances in your car, including powdery substance or needles, do not handle them, as you can easily be exposed to this and wind up OD'ing yourself. It only takes a minute amount, or even accidental whiff.Update:fentanyl description:https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/fentanyl.htmlWhat to look for and how to react:https://drugabuse.com/fentanyl/overdose/https://www.rehabs.com/listings/laguna-treatment-hospital-1059292412/
> https://www.rehabs.com/listings/enlightened-solutions-detox-45658440/
> https://www.rehabs.com/listings/midwest-recovery-centers-3486429839/
> *Fentanyl Overdose*
> ...


What to look for & how to react? Idgaf.
So MF tired of all this bs that gives 1/2 the people an excuse to keep jacking off their lives & tormenting the people who love them.

The other 1/2 wants to jump in and save them from themselves. Ain't nobody got time for that.


----------



## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


Only cpr I know is foot to chest compressions so if you od in my car I'll call 911 and prolly take some pics to share in a thread on up. Net . Jk , seriously now you want me to be a paramedic , gtfoh


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

IR12 said:


> What to look for & how to react? Idgaf.
> So MF tired of all this bs that gives 1/2 the people an excuse to keep jacking off their lives & tormenting the people who love them.
> 
> The other 1/2 wants to jump in and save them from themselves. Ain't nobody got time for that.


My job used to be largely taking care of people who did not take care for themselves. I learned how not to judge, I'm definitely not perfect.

I'm trying desperately to quit smoking, thankfully making awesome progress. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin and smoking kills millions of people globally every year. But that's OK because you can buy cigarettes just about everywhere.

I smoked maybe three cigarettes at a party, bought a pack after that. Then another one the following day. Etc etc for almost 7 years. I have always been smart enough to know how horrible smoking is (lost a very close friend and uncle to lung cancer) but my brain kept saying "keep it up!". That's addiction.

Until you have had a loved one dealing with drug addiction, as I have, or struggling with a more socially acceptable addiction (like smoking), don't judge.

Addiction gets the best of good people. That doesn't make them unworthy of help or compassion.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

I like to think all this irreverent tough talk is just a front. But sadly, some people are just cold.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Further, to all of the people that have said they'd just leave someone on the curb. What if that was you or a loved one? Many medical emergencies can mimic being under the influence, particularly a stroke, seizure, or diabetic issue.

If nothing else, call 911 and treat the pax with compassion and dignity if nothing else.



UberBeemer said:


> I like to think all this irreverent tough talk is just a front. But sadly, some people are just cold.


I agree


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Last point, these are hypothetical scenarios , about as likely as me needing stop a bank robber or save a choking person at a Mc Donald’s . We ain’t saving the world out there, we drive a ****ing car for heavens sake. There I e just wasted 10 minutes on something that is very likely never gonna happen. Done!


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Ubertool said:


> Last point, these are hypothetical scenarios , about as likely as me needing stop a bank robber or save a choking person at a Mc Donald's . We ain't saving the world out there, we drive a @@@@ing car for heavens sake. There I e just wasted 10 minutes on something that is very likely never gonna happen. Done!


It's about helping people as you would want to be helped.

If you or someone that you love had a medical emergency, would you want to be helped or would you want to be ignored and tossed aside?

Fortunately, for the minority of people unwilling to help someone, the majority will help even those who do not care about anyone but themselves.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Ubertool said:


> Last point, these are hypothetical scenarios , about as likely as me needing stop a bank robber or save a choking person at a Mc Donald's . We ain't saving the world out there, we drive a @@@@ing car for heavens sake. There I e just wasted 10 minutes on something that is very likely never gonna happen. Done!


There is no harm being prepared. You may never get a flat tire, but ought to know how to change one.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


Your are selfish and I have ZERO sympathy for you or anyone like you.


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## jlittle (Aug 17, 2018)

Thank you OP for mentioning this. I carry Narcan; the nasal spray.

San Francisco AIDS Foundation's 6th Street Harm Reduction Center has kits available, free of charge, to anyone who wants to carry one. There's no required documentation to present - IDs, insurance cards or forms. Just walk in, ask for Narcan, walk out.

As others say, it may not be my job to save someone's life.

It's also "not my job" to help with luggage, talk to pax, give advice to tourists, and such. I do these things anyways because above all else, empathy and kindness go a long way. I hope in my time of need, no matter how large or small the gesture, there's a human who still has the courage, compassion, and respect to care that I'm a human.

This goes for saving a pax's life too. I'm someone's son, brother, grandson, nephew, and uncle. That man could be as well. Or they could be someone's sister, mother, etc... I would want someone to care enough about them to be bothered to save them.

We can be awful, miserable, salty people if we want to be. But why? What do we have to gain by being so resentful, so righteous, so vindictive?

It just seems to be a lot easier to be kind. It's not like we've got a lot to lose!

Imagine for a second saving a pax who overdoses actually sends them on the right path. They may thank you for it.

What's the alternative that evening? I'm sure some drivers would prefer to dump the body and go pickup Stacey for their no tip $9 trip to Marina. I'd rather wait about 20 minutes for the ambulance to show up, get the guy to where he needs to go. Yes, It's inconvenient. I do have options! If I am upset about the wait because I have to make rent, I'll leave the meter going and consider finishing the trip. That's the contract he consented to!

SF is not known as one of the hardest hit areas affected by the opiate crisis. Even so, addiction knows no borders. About two weekends ago, a close family friend from my childhood overdosed in Kentucky. If anyone had access to Narcan, he would still be alive today.

_(for those who don't follow my logic, In my experience embracing a deep understanding of empathy also generally results in tips.)_


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> I like to think all this irreverent tough talk is just a front. But sadly, some people are just cold.


The kicking them to the curb is obvious "tough talk".

But if anyone Is ever overdosing in my car, I would act the exact same way I did when my car was on fire last year.

Pull over

GTFO

Call 911

Watch her burn from 20 yards away and get a few good videos to share with friends.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Mkang14 said:


> If there is someone drugged out in my car, i am more worried about myself. If they pass out, I can call 911. Done.


Spot on.



waldowainthrop said:


> It is probably helpful for you to share your experience, but I don't think a significant portion of drivers will ever be properly prepared to deal with drug abuse or overdosing. It isn't a driver's job, as you said, but it's also not something many drivers are going to be reasonably ready for, besides being willing to dial 911 in a medical emergency.
> 
> Drivers generally find it difficult to worry about this on top of driving safely and doing the job appropriately for their less troubled passengers. There is no additional training, pay, experience, insurance, or preparedness that will make a typical driver any more capable of dealing with such a situation than any other passerby or non-specialized service worker.
> 
> Uber and Lyft also provide zero support on this issue, and would be quick to deactivate a driver if a medical intervention for a passenger went wrong.


This thread provides yet another reason I'm becoming more and more selective, with respect to where and when I drive. As well as whom I pick up, and their respective neighborhood/complex.

Earnings are down from several years ago. Piece of mind's much better.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> The kicking them to the curb is obvious "tough talk".
> 
> But if anyone Is ever overdosing in my car, I would act the exact same way I did when my car was on fire last year.
> 
> ...


No, you wouldn't. I believe you would call 911 though.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> No, you wouldn't. I believe you would call 911 though.


I would call 911 and absolutely I would stand outside my car and wait. 
Even in the rain.

Unless I know for sure what's happening to them, like they just put 3 ounces of steak in their mouth and now can't breathe, I'm assuming they're dying from corona virus and letting the pros try to help.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

UberBeemer said:


> There is no harm being prepared. You may never get a flat tire, but ought to know how to change one.


Let's see, in 51 years I've never seen anyone od. , but I have changed 25 flats . Terrible analogy


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> There is no harm being prepared. You may never get a flat tire, but ought to know how to change one.


Very wrong. I didn't sign up to be an ambulance driver or medical assistant. Nor am I qualified, or licensed, for such.

Like others, on this thread, I'd pull over, exit vehicle and call 911. Period.

If you want to take on emergency medical responsibility, and risk, knock yourself out. Not me.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Carrying Narcan....LOL.

Pax just want everything.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Buy your own narcan and carry it on a rope around your neck.

Then, tattoo "junkie" on your forehead.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

MiamiKid said:


> Spot on.
> 
> 
> This thread provides yet another reason I'm becoming more and more selective, with respect to where and when I drive. As well as whom I pick up, and their respective neighborhood/complex.
> ...


This is the only reason I started this thread. I'm not asking drivers to do more or less, not saying it should or shouldn't be their job to help someone like me in the past. Only to say, you would not know if the 20-30 something young professional, white collar person dresses decently is on drugs, scoring drugs, or could OD. SURE you can take steps to limit the chances by denying certain rides and so forth, but the 20-30 yr old person making a stop at the drug store or gas station and getting back in the car "could" be doing something you think is impossible to happen


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Apec said:


> This is the only reason I started this thread. I'm not asking drivers to do more or less, not saying it should or shouldn't be their job to help someone like me in the past. Only to say, you would not know if the 20-30 something young professional, white collar person dresses decently is on drugs, scoring drugs, or could OD. SURE you can take steps to limit the chances by denying certain rides and so forth, but the 20-30 yr old person making a stop at the drug store or gas station and getting back in the car "could" be doing something you think is impossible to happen


Good first step.
Now, STOP.
You're being inconsiderate to everyone who cares about you.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Why would anyone ever think the backseat of a car of a total _stranger_ driving Uber or Lyft is a safe place to shoot up? Don't people read the news anymore? You're likely to wake up from your drug induced stupor to find driver John or Rahbib fondling you and whispering sweet nothings into your ear. SMH.

I would say to save it for the bathroom at McDonald's, but those mangers don't play, at least around here. The average Uber driver wouldn't say shit if they had a mouthful it seems. Too afraid of getting deactivated so go ahead... shoot up, turn tricks, assault me, evacuate your bowels in my backseat. Just please rate me 5 stars!!!


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> Religion is subjective and based on fictional folklore.


Maybe, depends whether or not it is based on God's Word or the traditions of man.



UberBeemer said:


> Science tells us that addiction, regardless of substance or stimuli, can be very debilitating.


Yep, as does God's Word and plain old common sense.



UberBeemer said:


> You might say that your reaction to science is based on an addiction to a cultist philosophy.


You're projecting. Communism, Socialism, Enviromentalism are also cultish religions after the traditions of man.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

swathdiver said:


> You're projecting. Communism, Socialism, Enviromentalism are also cultish religions after the traditions of man.


I'm kind of curious how you define communism vs. socialism. &#128517;


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Disappointed. I'm going to sue for malpractice.


Your aggressive act could be construed as agitation.
Our time is up ⏰
A perfect Duck Flambe'
Until next week, happy eating &#128523;&#128077;


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Good first step.
> Now, STOP.
> You're being inconsiderate to everyone who cares about you.


Yea, this isn't going on anymore. I wrote earlier that it's been almost 2 years since this happened or I got high.

And yes, extremely inconsiderate


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> It's available OTC but unfortunately can be expensive.


No problem! Mark it up 50% and your going to be banking in no time!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

There is no way I would administer prescription medication to a person who is attempting to commit suicide. That person has made a decision. I have seen people wake up in withdrawal a few seconds after a dose ... and they are sometimes violent. (You just ruined their high).

I'll drive to the ER, let the meter run till yer out, then report to the boss for a clean up fee.
RESOLVED


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I'm kind of curious how you define communism vs. socialism. &#128517;


Two totally different ideals

In modern American terms

Communist = Wrongpublicans
Socialists = Demorats


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> There is no way I would administer prescription medication to a person who is attempting to commit suicide.


*Over the counter medication

*Someone with a problem


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> *Over the counter medication
> 
> *Someone with a problem


OK
I would not administer even an aspirin to a person who has the problem of having made the decision to commit suicide.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Something to consider.

Do you (general drivers) have the same attitude towards drunk pax if you drive the night shift? Or pax smoking when you arrive?



UberBastid said:


> OK
> I would not administer even an aspirin to a person who has the problem of having made the decision to commit suicide.


See above


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Do you (general drivers) have the same attitude towards drunk pax if you drive the night shift? Or pax smoking when you arrive?


Yes, and yes.

I am a grown up. I make my own decisions. I smoke (not tobacco) and I drink adult beverages. And I know that I may pay a price for that some day. It's my price to pay and I won't expect or ask for any sympathy, or lung or liver transplants when it's time to pay up. 
I have traded, or paid something to get something.

Same for the junkie. 
It's his or her decision.
I am a believer in personal freedom.

If you don't want your brains blown out your left ear - don't play Russian roulette.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Something to consider.
> 
> Do you (general drivers) have the same attitude towards drunk pax if you drive the night shift? Or pax smoking when you arrive?
> 
> ...


Hi Ben You should not post your full face on the interwebzzz.

I avoid drunks more than the plague. Last year I think I picked up from bars less than 20 times. Those were odd places and times. If I am pulling up and see people standing there smoking I just drive right on by

No Cancel fee no Drama.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

go ahead over dose . stop doing drugs. 
Overdose in my car ill have the app running when i drive you to the hospital obeying all the traffic laws . Ow well another junkie od . 
zero narcan for you i could careless about you and your drug habits . One good thing about od . After a idiot od they cant have kids and it will stop idiot generations to continue . 
my opinion only idiots abuse drugs .


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Yes, and yes.
> 
> I am a grown up. I make my own decisions. I smoke (not tobacco) and I drink adult beverages. And I know that I may pay a price for that some day. It's my price to pay and I won't expect or ask for any sympathy, or lung or liver transplants when it's time to pay up.
> I have traded, or paid something to get something.
> ...





Amos69 said:


> Hi Ben You should not post your full face on the interwebzzz.
> 
> I avoid drunks more than the plague. Last year I think I picked up from bars less than 20 times. Those were odd places and times. If I am pulling up and see people standing there smoking I just drive right on by
> 
> No Cancel fee no Drama.


So many drivers have the attitude that nobody they are providing a ride to deserves any empathy. And that's sad.

I've had my share of bad pax, booted a few to the curb. But if someone was experiencing a medical emergency, such as an overdose, I'd do everything in my power to help them.

@Amos69 this is me, I'm open - not a sock puppet like so many people here.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

kingcorey321 said:


> go ahead over dose . stop doing drugs.
> Overdose in my car ill have the app running when i drive you to the hospital obeying all the traffic laws . Ow well another junkie od .
> zero narcan for you i could careless about you and your drug habits . * One good thing about od . After a idiot od they cant have kids and it will stop idiot generations to continue .*
> my opinion only idiots abuse drugs .


For the most part I agree with your sentiment BUT

I know hundreds of junkies who have OD'd and then procreated.



Benjamin M said:


> So many drivers have the attitude that nobody they are providing a ride to deserves any empathy. And that's sad.
> 
> I've had my share of bad pax, booted a few to the curb. But if someone was experiencing a medical emergency, such as an overdose, I'd do everything in my power to help them.
> 
> @Amos69 this is me, I'm open - not a sock puppet like so many people here.


That's the problem Ben! The internet is not a friendly place. You are mortgaging your very future and freedoms by outting yourself needlessly.

Identity thieves LOVE people like you.

Piss off someone bad and some ingrate with moderate net skills can post your face on Pedropile websites.

There are bad people here, and all across internet forums around the world.

Here you post your face.

There you post what neighborhood you live
And Over there you post your birthday.

Here you get hired to a new job and post it with the name of the employer.

These are all dangerous habits. No matter if it a personal attack against you, or just a random hack attack.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Been my


Amos69 said:


> For the most part I agree with your sentiment BUT
> 
> I know hundreds of junkies who have OD'd and then procreated.
> 
> ...


Been myself here since the beginning.

The topic of the thread is addiction and it comes in many ways.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> So many drivers have the attitude that nobody they are providing a ride to deserves any empathy.


em·pa·thy (noun)
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

deserves? as in, entitled to?
why?
There are people out there who WANT TO LIVE, and have been dealt a tough hand. Don't they DESERVE my empathy MORE?
Why does a person who can not or will not have any empathy or feelings for people who love them, or care about the safety of their fellow citizens, or even care about their own life DESERVE my empathy?
Answer that ...


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Been my
> 
> Been myself here since the beginning.
> 
> The topic of the thread is addiction and it comes in many ways.


Indeed it is.

I often say " Most people ( yes most) spend an inordinate amount of time and energy sabotaging their own joy and happiness"


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

I've mentioned this countless times here and was recently criticized. But here it goes again.

I dedicated a decade of my life (not including school) as a paramedic.

I learned a lot about empathy, compassion, and forgiveness. I learned that making bad decisions in life does not make someone a bad person, *particularly *when it came to addiction.

So, go ahead and judge people who are struggling. Kick them out of your car, potentially leaving them to die - which could land you in jail or worse.

OR, be a decent human being. Acknowledge that you are in a service industry gig that often involves people under the influence. Contact the proper authorities when something happens and do your best to help someone in need.

Everyone has problems. That's a fact.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

kingcorey321 said:


> go ahead over dose . stop doing drugs.
> Overdose in my car ill have the app running when i drive you to the hospital obeying all the traffic laws . Ow well another junkie od .
> zero narcan for you i could careless about you and your drug habits . One good thing about od . After a idiot od they cant have kids and it will stop idiot generations to continue .
> my opinion only idiots abuse drugs .


hey ya I'm not telling you to feel bad or do anything. You can feel however you want to feel about addicts. Ive been clean a long time, have a great job, procreated (more than once in my life), bought an amazing home, and am raising a beautiful family. Kids are amazing and doing better in school than I ever did still, I was able to make a great life for my family. My wife obviously knows what I been through, 1 kid does and 1 kid doesnt. And still, as crazy as this may sound to you, I'm as successful as the person you wish you could call your neighbor. It's amazing how some of the worlds "scum" can do things when they just try a little bit. In a short amount of time. Shit even while using

its ok
You don't know what you don't know.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> I've mentioned this countless times here and was recently criticized. But here it goes again.
> 
> I dedicated a decade of my life (not including school) as a paramedic.
> 
> ...


I started working in health care at 18.
I was an orderly in a busy Emergency Room in the SF Bay Area.
I moved to Michigan when I was 20 and got licensed as an EMT and later as a Paramedic.
Drove in Detroit.
I have run into my fair share of junkies.
They taught me a lot.

They taught me that they'd give a ******** in an ally while holding their six month old child in their arms.
They taught me that they'd shoot an ambulance attendant because they think we got the good drugs.
They taught me that they'd stick an ice pick in their own mother because she won't give them money.
They showed me how to beat a six year old child till it's a paraplegic for the rest of its life.

I learned a lot from junkies.

A junkies biggest problem is that they seem to just keep breathing.
They need to stop.
I say give them all the drugs they want, free.
Give them all the recovery services they want, free.
Let them choose ... live or die.
Easy peasy.

Legalize ALL drugs.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Everyone has problems.

But some have far fewer problems. Most peoples problems are of their own making.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> I started working in health care at 18.
> I was an orderly in a busy Emergency Room in the SF Bay Area.
> I moved to Michigan when I was 20 and got licensed as an EMT and later as a Paramedic.
> Drove in Detroit.
> ...


Sorry to hear that you missed your mark as a provider. But thank you for your service regardless.

Edit - that was a bit harsh. We burn out for various reasons.

One of mine was providers that did not are about their patients, particularly fire based (they wanted to be on a fire apparatus and not on the "gut wagon"). Also had an EMT call me an "N" lover after expressing concern about a black partner having problems.


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I'm kind of curious how you define communism vs. socialism.


This is how I define them both:

_*Statism is Tyranny. Statism is the pursuit of materialism which does not presuppose a belief in a Higher Power for the State is the highest authority and final arbiter which grants and takes away the rights of the worker, unconstrained. *_
*
The degree of Tyranny experienced by the worker depends on the form of government in power. Statist governments include the Oligarchy, Socialist, Fascist, Democratic and Communist. In a Statist government, the wealth of the nation is owned by the State. This is obtained through State Capitalism, where the worker exists to serve the needs of the State. All or a portion of the worker's labor, physical and intellectual property belongs to the State.
*
_*The Statist believes in the false premise that government can right all of man's wrongs through legislation. Freedom, choice and social justice are some of the key words used by the Statist to enact legislation which raises and favors one group of workers over another often dividing the worker into disparate special interest groups. The Statist does not believe in Liberty or private property rights for the worker. Statism exists on immorality, the only morality the Statist recognizes is that which will further his material objectives.*_


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

swathdiver said:


> This is how I define them both:
> 
> _*Statism is Tyranny. Statism is the pursuit of materialism which does not presuppose a belief in a Higher Power for the State is the highest authority and final arbiter which grants and takes away the rights of the worker, unconstrained. *_
> 
> ...


Funny that you say that as I'm a libertarian socialist (aka anti-statist). &#129335;&#127996;‍♂


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

I want to comment . These drug users are selfish . There taking food from there kids mouths so they can get high !
Problem indeed get your self the help available to you Stop doing DRUGS . Always your excuse ( im getting help later I will stop using later) One poster said she was in detroit i am also this could be why i have a different opinion about drug users . There everywhere .
Kids must always were shoes , Why glass rocks bugs ? Drug needles everywhere . Yes these needles even on basket ball courts


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Funny that you say that as I'm a libertarian socialist (aka anti-statist). &#129335;&#127996;‍♂


A Libertarian Socialist? Now that's a contradiction in terms! How do you define that belief system?


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

swathdiver said:


> A Libertarian Socialist? Now that's a contradiction in terms! How do you define that belief system?


It's not _at all_. I'm going to redirect that comment away from this thread towards another.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/your-political-values.375887/
Statism and authoritarianism (as opposed to local democracy, libertarian models for governance, or anarchy) are a completely separate axis from the economic policy axis.

I think I wrote more about it here too:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/i’m-a-libertarian-socialist-ask-me-anything.379170/


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> It's not _at all_. I'm going to redirect that comment away from this thread towards another.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/your-political-values.375887/
> Statism and authoritarianism (as opposed to local democracy, libertarian models for governance, or anarchy) are a completely separate axis from the economic policy axis.
> ...


Speaking of

I am an Anarchist!

I do not readily organize, nor do I give a rats a$$ about other peoples authority or needs.

You can keep your rules and laws and have fun following them

I shall do as I damn well please.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

So I am a narcissistic sociopath and you can get Narcan without a script in Ohio. Will I to save some fools life? Nope, I will call 911 and let them deal with you. Not like you would tip anyways.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

TBone said:


> So I am a narcissistic sociopath and you can get Narcan without a script in Ohio. Will I to save some fools life? Nope, I will call 911 and let them deal with you. Not like you would tip anyways.


So, here's a hypothetical..

Say that you were in a major collision and your car was on fire. Would you want someone to help you?


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Benjamin M said:


> So, here's a hypothetical..
> 
> Say that you were in a major collision and your car was on fire. Would you want someone to help you?


I have no expectations of help from anyone...ever.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

TBone said:


> I have no expectations of help from anyone...ever.


I'd help you. And so would the majority. So there's that.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Sorry to hear that you missed your mark as a provider. But thank you for your service regardless.
> 
> Edit - that was a bit harsh. We burn out for various reasons.
> 
> One of mine was providers that did not are about their patients, particularly fire based (they wanted to be on a fire apparatus and not on the "gut wagon"). Also had an EMT call me an "N" lover after expressing concern about a black partner having problems.


Good diagnosis ... I did burn out.
I left Detroit and came back to Cali. I got into a program and became a Surgical Tech. I worked as a tech for many years, and had the misfortune to work with nurses (and docs) that shouldn't be practicing any more. I asked one nurse I worked with why she stuck with nursing since she hated it so much. "What else can I do? I'm 40, divorced with a kid in college." 
I promised myself that if I ever got to that point, I'd quit. That poor slob laying on that table with his guts open needs a team that gives a shit. I always did my best for the patient, even to my own detriment. But, one day ... I didn't GAF any more. 
I think it was when my wife left me a week after her birthday. I took her out to a nice restaurant, and my pager went off. I had to go to work. Some damn fool drove into a telephone pole and we had to remove a leg. As I left her with cab fare on the table I looked over my shoulder, and the look on her face said it. I will never forget it. I had killed it. I had killed us. 
A few months after that I realized that I didn't GAF any more. 
I never went back to nursing or health care after that.


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> It's not _at all_. I'm going to redirect that comment away from this thread towards another.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/your-political-values.375887/
> Statism and authoritarianism (as opposed to local democracy, libertarian models for governance, or anarchy) are a completely separate axis from the economic policy axis.
> ...


Well friend, I read some of that and still see it as a contradiction in belief systems. However, you voted the way I figured you would, for Communists, three times. That kinda proves my point. You say you don't like authoritarians but voted for them and against your country thrice.

I like the way America was founded, as a Constitutional Republic with its citizens practicing Free Enterprise. These systems were made only for a moral and religious people (those who fear God), and is not suitable for any other.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

You’re right, I’m religious now.


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## Elland Rd (Feb 26, 2020)

swathdiver said:


> I like the way America was founded, as a Constitutional Republic with its citizens practicing Free Enterprise. These systems were made only for a moral and religious people (those who fear God), and is not suitable for any other.


Taking your point further. One could argue that economic libertarianism would be less likely to succeed in a modern day America that lacks the moral and religious foundations you mention, that in the past would have kept greed in check somewhat, and encouraged voluntary help for the poor.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Benjamin M said:


> Actually, the laws exist to provide legal protection. And Uber deactivating you for attempting to save a life? No.
> 
> You're not alone in being afraid of helping someone, though.


I didn't say I personally would not help someone, but I can see why a driver who desperately needs the money to feed his kids and is one "paycheck" away from them being homeless might be.

That's because I don't expect Uber to have any sympathy when a pax accuses the driver of touching him or her when he/she wakes up with him over her, whether she was ODing or not. If it turned out she WASN'T Uber will simply point to the no touching part if the TOS to cover itself.

A small or female driver might also worry about the pax's physical reaction if they do wake up and are pissed off. I don't know of any place where EMTs and paramedics don't work in pairs. An Uber driver is on their own.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Elland Rd said:


> Taking your point further. One could argue that complete economic libertarianism would likely lead to dystopian scenarios in modern day America that lacks the moral and religious foundations that would have kept the greed in check, and encouraged voluntary help for the poor.


This line of logic is how one might end up at libertarian socialism (all the worker and citizen rights with little of the exploitative capitalism nor the authoritarianism of many societies). But I don't believe in that anymore since this thread because I have become a Christian republican originalist.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Do you think you telling us anything we don't already know?

I learned this long ago using my specialized forward looking visible light sensitive optical sensors.

Oh, and if you OD in my car, don't expect Narcan or a high speed ride to the hospital. To cover my liability I will:

Pull over.
Call 911.
Wait for the PoPo and ambulance.
Document the cleaning fee request.
Clean up.
Go back online.


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## yogi bear (Dec 25, 2015)

I had an OD once, took her to buy the heroine, she shot it up right there in the back of the cab, then 10 minutes later on the way back to her home she fell over sideways in the back seat, I reached over and shook her arm , it was all cold and clammy feeling, the nearest hospital was knox private in wantirna, I took her there, stopped the cab, went into emergency , explained i had an overdose , they said does she have health insurance?, who's paying? kinda thing, I said 'i dont care, I'll just roll her out and dump her here anyhow, your problem', in the middle of all this she, the ODed girl, sat bolt upright in the backseat asking where she was, like I know they hate that narcan stuff, she seemed pretty adamant that she was indeed OK now, so I took her home, she paid.


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## Matt101980 (Mar 24, 2019)

Sorry I’m new to this thread and just read through and wanted to share a story. 

Back when I was new (and stupid) and didn’t know the areas and the signs of a problem I picked up a couple and half way through the trip I noticed they were shooting up in my back seat. We where on a major highway I calmly pulled over got out and ripped the guy out of the back seat and threw him on the road and the women started screaming and I just said get out or I’ll waiting here till the cops come so she got out and I canceled and drove away. 
This was Lyft and I called Lyft and reported it and they obviously did nothing. So be careful out there boys and girls.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Benjamin M said:


> Further, to all of the people that have said they'd just leave someone on the curb. What if that was you or a loved one? Many medical emergencies can mimic being under the influence, particularly a stroke, seizure, or diabetic issue.
> 
> If nothing else, call 911 and treat the pax with compassion and dignity if nothing else.
> 
> ...


When my dad had his first stroke we had to help him in to the house because he couldn't walk and was slurring his speech.

First thing out of moms mouth was, why is your dad drunk?

In 50 years that I knew my dad I had never seen him drunk, yet that was my moms first reaction.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

observer said:


> When my dad had his first stroke we had to help him in to the house because he couldn't walk and was slurring his speech.
> 
> First thing out of moms mouth was, why is your dad drunk?
> 
> In 50 years that I knew my dad I had never seen him drunk, yet that was my moms first reaction.


Folks having strokes (who are conscious) can hear and are aware of everything that is said and done around them, even if they cannot communicate. Compassion and dignity is spot on.


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## Jason15215 (Jul 16, 2019)

I'm actually an RN at my regular job. I have worked in a detox center so I'm pretty empathetic to addiction issue. I just do this occasionally for some extra cash. A friend of a friend who does Uber alot had a girl OD in the back of his car. He carries the Narcan nasal spray. She was slumped over in his vehicle when he arrived at her dropoff location. He tried to wake her up but ended up having to use the nasal spray. He doesnt have a camera in his vehicle. She almost immediately wakes up and then proceeds to just tear him apart calling him every name in the book (in her eyes he ruined her high and narcan immediately puts you into withdrawal). She eventually exits his vehicle, 1 stars him and then tells Uber he was driving under the influence and HE gets suspended for about a week while they investigate or whatever. Not saying he should of let her die but it's people like her that give others the whole "natural selection " attitude.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

sd1303 said:


> Folks having strokes (who are conscious) can hear and are aware of everything that is said and done around them, even if they cannot communicate. Compassion and dignity is spot on.


My dad survived another twenty years.

In his last year of life he was hospitalized, in the ICU and declared brain dead by hospital doctors.

It was a friday night. About 25 of us squeezed in to the little ICU room as the hospital priest gave my dad his last rites and "celebrated" my parents 50th anniversary, all while my dad was in a coma and life support,, "brain dead".

The next morning I went in before work to say good bye to my dad.

I had never in my life told my dad, I love you. He always knew I did I just never said the words to him.

Anyways, I walk in and he's still knocked out. The nurses say there has been no change during the night.

I walk over to his bedside, hold his hand and say to him, Dad you know I love you right?

He grips my hand and violently shakes his head yes. Then slips back in to his coma.

I tell the nurses and they say sometimes the body has involuntary responses.

I take off to work for the day and when I stop by during lunch my dad had ripped out his breathing tube and was wide awake and conscious.

He left the hospital later that week. He lived several more months and we got to celebrate my parents real 50th anniversary.

There are still many things we don't know about how brains work.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

observer said:


> When my dad had his first stroke we had to help him in to the house because he couldn't walk and was slurring his speech.
> 
> First thing out of moms mouth was, why is your dad drunk?
> 
> In 50 years that I knew my dad I had never seen him drunk, yet that was my moms first reaction.


Responded to many, many such calls. Often to find someone with critically low blood sugar.

Can't always assume that someone is just drunk or high, especially if they change suddenly.



Jason15215 said:


> I'm actually an RN at my regular job. I have worked in a detox center so I'm pretty empathetic to addiction issue. I just do this occasionally for some extra cash. A friend of a friend who does Uber alot had a girl OD in the back of his car. He carries the Narcan nasal spray. She was slumped over in his vehicle when he arrived at her dropoff location. He tried to wake her up but ended up having to use the nasal spray. He doesnt have a camera in his vehicle. She almost immediately wakes up and then proceeds to just tear him apart calling him every name in the book (in her eyes he ruined her high and narcan immediately puts you into withdrawal). She eventually exits his vehicle, 1 stars him and then tells Uber he was driving under the influence and HE gets suspended for about a week while they investigate or whatever. Not saying he should of let her die but it's people like her that give others the whole "natural selection " attitude.


But he called 911 and had a police report to document what had happened, right?

Narcan is not a replacement for calling 911.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

7 pages not read. So here is my take.

Personally I'd just let you die first, then call 911. "Conform or be cast out" New World Man ~ Rush ~ Subdivisions. Sure, easier said than done.

Yes I have a good friend who is a recovered addict, or the last time I saw her she was. I would do anything I could to help her but apparently she doesn't want my help.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberBeemer said:


> Any idiot can try to sue you for a million dumb reasons. The fact that you tried to get help isn't usually one of those. And why would you get deactivated?
> 
> If you boot someone who's life hangs in the balance, you become part of the problem if they do die, or suffer brain damage from respiratory arrest.
> 
> Think about it. You said it yourself. The good samaritan laws protect you. If Bus Bench lawyer tries to sue, you don't want to be the moron who tossed his client to the curb, instead of calling 911.


Ok, you all are forgetting this is UBER.

Give the narcan, pax WAS OD'd, comes out of it, media gets the story, you're a hero and Uber holds you up as an example of how great ride share is.

Give the narcan, pax was just drunk and comes out swinging at you because you're "trying to rape her". Police are called by the 911 on the app, they have to take a report from the pax, who is now s toobbing in your front seat and reports to Uber you "tried to rape her."

I'm just sayin'...you mean nothing to Uber and they will drop you like a hot potato.

Edit:. Had written this but got interrupted and didn't post. Just posted and went back and read this did already happen. Not surprised. Driver is lucky but if there is any similar complaint ever that will be it for them.


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## Jason15215 (Jul 16, 2019)

He never called 911 and, at the time, regretted he didnt because of the hassle to get reinstated as a driver. Lesson learned. He didnt take her home but to the local bar district in Pittsburgh (carson st). He tried to explain to her that narcan is only temporary and she might need it again but she didnt wanna hear it and I'm sure she probably knew all this anyways.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Hit the wrong person with Narcan (heart attack or stroke) and driver has a huge lawsuit to deal with.

Only medical personnel or family/friends who know the User should administer.


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## ghrdrd (Jun 26, 2019)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


People like you are the reason I don't hold out much hope for humanity. Perhaps the corona virus will this clean garbage out for us, make the world a better place, even a little bit.


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## Jason15215 (Jul 16, 2019)

UberLaLa said:


> Hit the wrong person with Narcan (heart attack or stroke) and driver has a huge lawsuit to deal with.
> 
> Only medical personnel or family/friends who know the User should administer.


He has been a paramedic for 20 years. He probably narcans people daily and has a ton of experience with it. Most states have good samaritan laws that protect people that attempt to help. I've given Narcan before at the hospital and it only reverses the effects of opiates. It also has no adverse effects if you give it to someone that's just passed out drunk or passed out on benzos (ativan, xanax etc...)


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

I wont carry Narcan...it just prolongs the inevitable. It becomes a "enabler" tactic.

I am liberal but that goes too far imo


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## BigBadBob (May 20, 2018)

We are not medics.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Jason15215 said:


> *He has been a paramedic for 20 years. He probably narcans people daily and has a ton of experience with it.* Most states have good samaritan laws that protect people that attempt to help. I've given Narcan before at the hospital and it only reverses the effects of opiates. It also has no adverse effects if you give it to someone that's just passed out drunk or passed out on benzos (ativan, xanax etc...)


Even though I was not referring to 'him' - you are proving my point. I'm referring to the average driver. And, I specifically wrote _heart attack or stroke,_ not _just passed out. :winking:_


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## Odin7676 (Mar 21, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> It is probably helpful for you to share your experience, but I don't think a significant portion of drivers will ever be properly prepared to deal with drug abuse or overdosing. It isn't a driver's job, as you said, but it's also not something many drivers are going to be reasonably ready for, besides being willing to dial 911 in a medical emergency.
> 
> Drivers generally find it difficult to worry about this on top of driving safely and doing the job appropriately for their less troubled passengers. There is no additional training, pay, experience, insurance, or preparedness that will make a typical driver any more capable of dealing with such a situation than any other passerby or non-specialized service worker.
> 
> Uber and Lyft also provide zero support on this issue, and would be quick to deactivate a driver if a medical intervention for a passenger went wrong.


Agree. Even though I worked on an ambulance as a para m.h edic for many years if this were to happen I'd call 911 and have them take over and your only as good as your tools so tx is limited until medic arrives with proper supplies. In situation where I could help a rider in need I would do everything I could fo to help until fire or medical got there regardless of whether or not UBER would deactivate me. Deactivation wouldn't even enter my mind when a person in distress was needing help.



BigBadBob said:


> We are not medics.


. Correct. Call 911


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## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Apec said:


> I'm writing this to put drivers on notice. I'm in recovery. Many people, like me, white collar professional, use Uber to score drugs. Heroin I'm talking about. You would have no idea. I would make a stop (on the app) at any random store, get heroin, and use before 5 minutes are over. Usually 3 minutes. And 2x I od'd in 3 years in the back of an Uber/Lyft. Once I was dropped at the ER and once the driver didn't realize under he dropped me off. I woke up when ambulance came (called by the driver).
> 
> Carry Narcan or not, I'm not saying it's a drivers job, just don't be so naive to think addicts don't use Uber, you would deny me by looking at me, or you would know if we were high or OD'ing


If a person isn't in great shape. I don't take them.


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

ghrdrd said:


> People like you are the reason I don't hold out much hope for humanity. Perhaps the corona virus will this clean garbage out for us, make the world a better place, even a little bit.


It's really funny because 2 years later and I have a 80,000+ paying job and with my wife just bought a 450,000 home. 
I understand how unfair that sounds, but maybe the person you call your boss, or the person that signs your Uber checks, will be that piece of garbage the Corona Virus didn't take out.

You are where you are today because you look down on others. I am where I am today because I've learned the best of people make horrible decisions, but can learn from their mistakes.


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## ghrdrd (Jun 26, 2019)

Apec said:


> It's really funny because 2 years later and I have a 80,000+ paying job and with my wife just bought a 450,000 home.
> I understand how unfair that sounds, but maybe the person you call your boss, or the person that signs your Uber checks, will be that piece of garbage the Corona Virus didn't take out.
> 
> You are where you are today because you look down on others. I am where I am today because I've learned the best of people make horrible decisions, but can learn from their mistakes.


I don;t have a boos, am my own boss.
450k house with 10% deposit the rest owned by bank.. nothing special, everyone has that.
80k job is commendable, after tax 50k?


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## Apec (Feb 26, 2020)

ghrdrd said:


> I don;t have a boos, am my own boss.
> 450k house with 10% deposit the rest owned by bank.. nothing special, everyone has that.
> 80k job is commendable, after tax 50k?


10% down rest owned by bank ☑
After tax around $55k ☑
You are right, it is nothing special. I am just saying we are all not a drain on society. People that need to be eliminated by natural selection. Rather some (most) are good people who have made horrible decisions that have selfishly hurt the people they love the most. And in this case, treated others (Uber drivers) very unfairly.

Not looking for anything here other than to say it's possible that me 2 years ago could be in your car, and it could happen to any driver.


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## ghrdrd (Jun 26, 2019)

Apec said:


> 10% down rest owned by bank ☑
> After tax around $55k ☑
> You are right, it is nothing special. I am just saying we are all not a drain on society. People that need to be eliminated by natural selection. Rather some (most) are good people who have made horrible decisions that have selfishly hurt the people they love the most. And in this case, treated others (Uber drivers) very unfairly.
> 
> Not looking for anything here other than to say it's possible that me 2 years ago could be in your car, and it could happen to any driver.


If you get your life together, all power to you bro.
I have seen some complete and utter drains on society - shooting up heroin, passed out on the street, living off government benefits, no interest whatsoever to get a job, make some cash on the side by small time mary jane distribution in the local commission flats. That's my $$ that could and should be going to education and looking after the elderly, not druggies who choose to shoot their veins.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

swathdiver said:


> Well friend, I read some of that and still see it as a contradiction in belief systems. However, you voted the way I figured you would, for Communists, three times. That kinda proves my point. You say you don't like authoritarians but voted for them and against your country thrice.
> 
> I like the way America was founded, as a Constitutional Republic with its citizens practicing Free Enterprise. These systems were made only for a moral and religious people (those who fear God), and is not suitable for any other.


I thought he was a socialist democrat

Not a republican.


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