# I'm still not seeing this below minimum wage



## Biovirus (Jun 3, 2015)

Another week of ubering and still I don't see why these tears flow so freely on this site


Keep ubering on brothers and sisters.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Not enough information to determine profitability.

Need to know net income after Uber's cut, total miles driven, model and year of vehicle, fuel costs, etc.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

New drivers get better trips to keep them excited just like in OP.


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## uberski (May 15, 2015)

Whats the flat rate in San Diego???


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## Biovirus (Jun 3, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> New drivers get better trips to keep them excited just like in OP.


I'm not new though?


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

That tells us nothing.
For all we know it was one trip


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

S.D. rates:
Base fare: $1.85
$0.20 per minute
$1.10 Per mile


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

OP:
As others have said, the screen shot really doesn't give enough information. At the very least you would need give the amount of your deposit from Uber (so net of their fees) and the total miles driven to earn that deposit.

Perhaps you will be the exception, but more often than not, those who post messages similar to yours seem not to keep track of how many miles they drove.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Oc_DriverX said:


> Perhaps you will be the exception,


Smooth move


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

Yes, we'd all be making a shit ton of money if all our numbers were based on UberMATH.


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## Biovirus (Jun 3, 2015)

On the days I do drive its 5am-9:30AM on what ever day I work a closing/mid shift at my normal job. I'll do that maybe 3-4 times a week if that. Which brings in roughly 330 dollars a week on the side driving about 75 miles total each day I drive depending if I get dragged to SD. 330 average AFTER all uber cuts. 

I get 50mpg so I spend little on gas.

75x 3.5 = 262 miles a week roughly
1 10 gallon tank of gas is 40 ish which is 500 miles

Just last week I made 140 in my morning shift driving to SD drop and heading to LA Jolla.


Please do keep in mind these numbers only reflect UBER and not lyft. Lyft probably another 30-50a day I drive


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Just like with any business, if you can keep your expenses low, you can get more out of your revenue.

I drive a reliable, paid-off vehicle with decent fuel mileage in an area with low gas prices ($2.30s as of today), with low insurance rates.

I am shocked that some people are driving Uber with newer cars with payments, and then they complain about not making any money!

You have to behave smartly to make money in the self-employed world. It's not for everybody.


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> New drivers get better trips to keep them excited just like in OP.


I don't feel this is true. Why not say the drivers with the most referrals on the road get better trips?

Today I had 14 trips. so many 3-6 dollar fares, Only 3 were over 12 bucks. a couple were between 7 and 10 dollars.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Noobs are KILLING it.... Great at Photoshop? or lack of math skills? Luck? Uber****ery??


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## YouWishYouKnewMe (May 26, 2015)

In LA there's no base fare that alone can make almost $200 difference if you do 100trips just make sure you're not driving a new car and you may be in the black slightly but I guarantee you're still making minimum wage give or take 10%
Whether you choose to believe that is your issue
You can gross 6k a month and make minimum wage or less because at a regular job you would be working or on call for 40 hrs a week not 100-140
The minute you work more in CA YOU GET 1.5X


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Do this:

Reset your trip meter when you begin an uber shift. When you get home, deduct $0.60 for every mile you've driven from that day's fares after the uber cut and tolls to get your actual profit.


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## Biovirus (Jun 3, 2015)

TimFromMA said:


> Do this:
> 
> Reset your trip meter when you begin an uber shift. When you get home, deduct $0.60 for every mile you've driven from that day's fares after the uber cut and tolls to get your actual profit.


I live where they don't gauge us with tolls.

.60? I sure love how this $ per mile keeps changing every time some one brings up per mile money


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Maybe you're one of the lucky ones. Maybe you suck at math. Only you can answer that question.


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

renbutler said:


> Just like with any business, if you can keep your expenses low, you can get more out of your revenue.
> 
> I drive a reliable, paid-off vehicle with decent fuel mileage in an area with low gas prices ($2.30s as of today), with low insurance rates.
> 
> ...


You do realize your insurance does not cover you doing this right?


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Biovirus said:


> I live where they don't gauge us with tolls.
> 
> .60? I sure love how this $ per mile keeps changing every time some one brings up per mile money


Actual costs per mile do vary with factors such as vehicle mileage, driving style, car reliability etc etc. $0.60 is on the higher end of the expense scale so if you use it, you can be more sure that what you have left is true profit.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> You do realize your insurance does not cover you doing this right?


Get into an accident and see your bottom line fall right out from under you.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Biovirus said:


> I live where they don't gauge us with tolls.
> 
> .60? I sure love how this $ per mile keeps changing every time some one brings up per mile money


People do throw out different per mile numbers. The IRS number right now is $0.575/mile for the average vehicle in the country. A driver needs to find a number that they think fits their car. Since UberX cars tend to be smaller and more efficient, I would argue that the $0.575/mile is on the high end. UberHammer has written an article describing how to calculate the costs for your car. If I remember correctly, he came up with $0.31/mile for his vehicle. That give you a range from $0.31 to $0.575 a mile. Its at least a starting point. The bottom line is that one should not just use gas as the only expense.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

If you want to get a closer idea of what your actual expenses are, you need to figure out a few things.

First, over the next 100,000 miles, how much will you spend on maintenance? This is everything from tires to brakes to oil changes and even the costs for unexpected repairs. Divide this amount by 100,000 and you’ll have your maintenance costs per mile.

Fuel costs are easy. Cost of a gallon of gas / mpg of your car = fuel costs per mile.

How much will you spend on insurance and payments over the next 100,000 miles? Use the same formula for maintenance.

Now figure out your car’s depreciation. How much is it worth today? How much will it be worth 100,000 miles from now? Again, use the same formula.

Add all these figures up and you will have a good ball park figure of your actual costs per mile.


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## ber fine print (May 22, 2015)

you also need to ad in what it will cost you to fix your car in the event of an accident plus your liability if your insurance company denies all claims when there`s an accident


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## Skrillio (Jul 31, 2015)

Have you been driving for over a year already? 

Dont forgot about state tax 10%, federal taxes, social security 12.4% and medicade 2.9%. Even with a prius gas is about a 10% or more expense.


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

Oh look, another Uber n00blet that thinks gas is his only expense.....


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## Biovirus (Jun 3, 2015)

Skrillio said:


> Have you been driving for over a year already?
> 
> Dont forgot about state tax 10%, federal taxes, social security 12.4% and medicade 2.9%. Even with a prius gas is about a 10% or more expense.





PHXTE said:


> Oh look, another Uber n00blet that thinks gas is his only expense.....


Yes I put money aside for taxes so I'm aware of that part. 30% of every deposit goes to a sesperate account for year end taxes just as my primary job does.

As for the nooblet remarks, sorry buddy but I already put money aside for future expenses per mile driven. .30 per mile.

Try harder sour puss.


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

TimFromMA said:


> If you want to get a closer idea of what your actual expenses are, you need to figure out a few things.
> 
> First, over the next 100,000 miles, how much will you spend on maintenance? This is everything from tires to brakes to oil changes and even the costs for unexpected repairs. Divide this amount by 100,000 and you'll have your maintenance costs per mile.
> 
> ...


I've been getting gas for 2.569 per gallon and I get 27.2 miles per gallon. 9.4 cents per mile. Add the .575 or .565 per mile from IRS and I make an additional .471 per mile. (tax deduction profit...)


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

Biovirus said:


> Another week of ubering and still I don't see why these tears flow so freely on this site
> 
> Keep ubering on brothers and sisters.


A lot of people are begging for tips. This hurt's their ratings, which effects their status. I think many are those guys in the middle of busy intersections with "help me" signs holding an out-dated Dunkin Donuts cup.

The real deal is they've locked themselves into rent they can't afford, a mortgage that turned their home upside down. Even at McD's they'll take the 12 dollar extra large meal, or pay 25.50 for a pizza with everything.

I'm sorry. I'm used to this type of bonding online at site and forums like this. If it's gambling, casinos cheat. If it's USmessage, it's Obama, or Bush. Lots of people still blame Bush.

Foe all I know a lot of these people are ugly and that alone makes them 4 star drivers...

Yes. I am normal.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

TimFromMA said:


> Do this:
> 
> Reset your trip meter when you begin an uber shift. When you get home, deduct $0.60 for every mile you've driven from that day's fares after the uber cut and tolls to get your actual profit.


My actual costs per mile are nowhere near 60 cents. But I live in an area with very low cost of living (not to mention a very pleasant area to live in).

It's closer to 30 cents per mile of expenses for me.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

William1964 said:


> A lot of people are begging for tips. This hurt's their ratings, which effects their status. I think many are those guys in the middle of busy intersections with "help me" signs holding an out-dated Dunkin Donuts cup.
> 
> The real deal is they've locked themselves into rent they can't afford, a mortgage that turned their home upside down. Even at McD's they'll take the 12 dollar extra large meal, or pay 25.50 for a pizza with everything.
> 
> ...


Wow, told it like it is.

Like.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> You do realize your insurance does not cover you doing this right?


I absolutely have confirmed it with my insurer: As long as Uber is at or less than 50% of the miles on the vehicle, my current policy is absolutely valid for everything I do.

If yours doesn't, maybe it's time to get a new insurer...


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Biovirus said:


> Another week of ubering and still I don't see why these tears flow so freely on this site
> 
> Keep ubering on brothers and sisters.


If you were doing the exact same thing in a market where the rates are 75 cents per mile how much would you have made then?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

renbutler said:


> I absolutely have confirmed it with my insurer: As long as Uber is at or less than 50% of the miles on the vehicle, my current policy is absolutely valid for everything I do.
> 
> If yours doesn't, maybe it's time to get a new insurer...


In writing? Screen shot please.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> In writing? Screen shot please.


It's the same information provided by other State Farm customers throughout this board in recent weeks.

I have a long-standing relationship with my agent. I don't just call strangers and take the cheapest rate I can find.

But my personal well being isn't based on your belief, nor is it harmed by your (pointless) skepticism. So I really don't care whether you believe it.


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

Biovirus said:


> Yes I put money aside for taxes so I'm aware of that part. 30% of every deposit goes to a sesperate account for year end taxes just as my primary job does.
> 
> As for the nooblet remarks, sorry buddy but I already put money aside for future expenses per mile driven. .30 per mile.
> 
> Try harder sour puss.


Since, you're clearly a financial wizard here, why don't you come back to us with your *net income*, not your gross. And since I'll probably have to explain to you what your "net income" is, that's your gross(what Uber deposits in your account each week...) minus your expenses, which equals what you're actually netting. I couldn't give two shits less what you're grossing. Present some valid information here and actually crunch the numbers before you start accusing us who have been here a while of not knowing what we're talking about.



> A lot of people are begging for tips. This hurt's their ratings, which effects their status. I think many are those guys in the middle of busy intersections with "help me" signs holding an out-dated Dunkin Donuts cup.
> 
> The real deal is they've locked themselves into rent they can't afford, a mortgage that turned their home upside down. Even at McD's they'll take the 12 dollar extra large meal, or pay 25.50 for a pizza with everything.
> 
> ...


Uhh, yeah, ok.

You got me. I'm one ugly mother****er and my mortgage is twice what my take home is. That's why I'm critical of Uber.

Right.

Not hardly. I put twice as much money into savings each month from my real job as most of you will bring home from Uber, so desperate I'm not. The last time I looked at my rating it was a 4.91 so I have no problems there either. My real job revolves around numbers and spreadsheets, so I'm capable of the rather simple analysis needed to realize this Uber is not a good deal for the drivers. Travis wins. The shareholders will probably eventually win too when they go public. The riders win because they get dirt cheap transportation. The drivers lose. The cab industry also loses(who cares...).

I tried Uber as a bit of a social experiment and because I still love the concept of it. The reality is it's not worth it for the drivers. You're better off delivering pizza or the like. Especially if Phoenix drops rates down to 75 cents/mile. Then, not only is it a bad deal, but drivers will actually be losing money.

(But they'll still happy sign up like the OP because of ignorance and well, depreciation and wear tear, and intangible items for the most part(until they become reality....)....


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

William1964 said:


> I've been getting gas for 2.569 per gallon and I get 27.2 miles per gallon. 9.4 cents per mile. Add the .575 or .565 per mile from IRS and I make an additional .471 per mile. (tax deduction profit...)


If you use the IRS number of $0.575/mile ($0.56/mile was for 2014) then you may not also deduct your gas. The IRS figure is meant to already include fuel, as well as maintenance and depreciation.


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## Honkadonk (Jul 20, 2015)

Not all markets are good, breh.


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

Okay. 

1. You can avoid all the taxes by shipping your cash overseas.
2. The expense and depreciation of the vehicle will nullify all the tax issues.
3. As a business owner, it pays to advertise and file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
4. Incorporating will lower your taxes.

My question is, what do I do when the 5% cash back from Chase Freedom ends this Quater October 1, do I still take the 1%, or rack up free Southwest Miles on the other Chase card?

I already did the math, the one% is the way to go?

(dang! I can't find my free drink cards on SW. Gonna give them away to people flying SW. I don't drink and they give out free Coke.)

Oh well, I'll get more come the end of the year.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

renbutler said:


> I absolutely have confirmed it with my insurer: As long as Uber is at or less than 50% of the miles on the vehicle, my current policy is absolutely valid for everything I do.
> 
> If yours doesn't, maybe it's time to get a new insurer...


Actually, the word from State Farm, per others who claim to have seen the memo was:

"_State Farm has decided that using a car for ridesharing as a secondary activity is not grounds for cancellation or denial of coverage as long as any filed claims do not involve the rideshare activity at the time of incident, in which case, the Uber or Lyft insurance would cover"_

In NO WAY does that mean you are covered for all activities. You have no comp/coll during phase 1, and pretty low liability ($100k). If you think $100k is adequate in the event you injure anyone while trolling or even immediately after ending a trip, think again. You will be most likely be personally sued, and probably used as "an example to others "


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## SantaFe_Uber (May 13, 2015)

renbutler said:


> Wow, told it like it is.
> 
> Like.


Yes, please tell us like it is in the Indy markets driving for .95 a mile and .18 minute........ and when/IF you get into an accident, let us know how that goes for you. #UberOn


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

SantaFe_Uber said:


> Yes, please tell us like it is in the Indy markets driving for .95 a mile and .18 minute........ and when/IF you get into an accident, let us know how that goes for you. #UberOn


Okay, it's not bad driving in the Indy suburbs with super-nice hot soccer moms, working from home and setting my own schedule in my low-expense vehicle. Thankfully I don't need this to be a massive money generator though. Thanks for asking.

I've driven over 20 years without causing an accident. As long as I don't drive like an idiot like 90% of the population, I'll be okay.


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## SantaFe_Uber (May 13, 2015)

renbutler So you don't need massive money... is it making you any money at all? So you drive to get off on good looks at soccer moms? Low expense, what do you drive?
Indy Jen C. was involved in an accident and was not at fault you cannot control other drivers.

Enjoy your day, from one hoosier to another.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

SantaFe_Uber said:


> renbutler So you don't need massive money... is it making you any money at all? Low expense, what do you drive?


Yes, I am making money because my expenses are low. I don't troll for fares, and I drive a reliable, paid-off vehicle worth less than $8000 (a Santa Fe, coincidentally). My insurance and registration costs, which I would pay for anyway, are no higher because of driving Uber. Even with those costs, I've been averaging about 30 cents of costs per mile in the past year.

Still, it's not a ton of income, but I knew to expect that before I started. I'm just getting a little extra cash instead of sitting on my ass doing nothing.



> So you drive to get off on good looks at soccer moms?


No, I neither said that nor implied that.

My point was that if I'm going to be driving people around making smallish amounts of money, it helps that some of them are attractive soccer moms. I'm not sure why you took that harmless fact and turned it into something absurd.

Even the men and the old people have almost exclusively been pleasant. That's one of the benefits of driving in a nice area.



> Indy Jen C. was involved in an accident and was not at fault you cannot control other drivers.
> 
> Enjoy your day, from one hoosier to another.


But I'm not going to file a claim against my insurance unless it's my fault.


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## Eat.Sleep.Drive (Jul 16, 2015)

renbutler said:


> It's the same information provided by other State Farm customers throughout this board in recent weeks.
> 
> I have a long-standing relationship with my agent. I don't just call strangers and take the cheapest rate I can find.
> 
> But my personal well being isn't based on your belief, nor is it harmed by your (pointless) skepticism. So I really don't care whether you believe it.


I'm with State Farm/same agent since forever. She told me I can drive for uber but they wouldn't cover me at all.

After I read your 50% or less reference, I opened up my insurance "DECLARATIONS PAGE". Specifically mentions, "EXCESS COVERAGE FOR PERSONAL VEHICLE SHARING".

"THERE IS NO COVERAGE FOR AN *INSURED *FOR THE OWNERSHIP, MAINTENANCE, OR USE OF *YOUR CAR* OR A *NEWLY ACQUIRED CAR* WHILE USED IN PERSONAL VEHICLE SHARING. This exclusion does not apply to *you* and *resident relatives* when, and only if, the full amount of all available limits of all other liability bonds, policies, and self-insurance plans that apply have been used up by payment of judgments or settlements, or have been offered in writing." It goes on to explain that the coverage applies as "excess coverage", not primary.

On the "Private Passenger Automobile Driver Adjustment Characteristics" paper, it mentions that there are three classification for private passenger automobiles. They are:
1- Work, School or Pleasure Use - Pretty self explanatory (Btw, traditional car pool or other ride sharing agreement is included here)
2- Business Use - Look below
3- Farm Use - Mainly used in Farming/Ranching

Now, this is where I think your agent may think ve found you a loophole. I ll post the "business use" explanation verbatim and let you reach your own conclusions.

"*Business Use* - an automobile is considered business use if 50% or more of the time or mileage use of the automobile is involved in the duties of the principal driver's or any other assigned driver's occupation, profession, or business, other than in going to and from the principal place of occupation, profession, or business."

And in all three types of usage, the "Estimated Average Annual Mileage" is considered "Short" when driven less than 7500 miles; and "Long" when driven over 7500 miles. "With respect to business use automobiles, the estimated average total annual mileage shall be the sum of business use and pleasure mileage."


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## Eat.Sleep.Drive (Jul 16, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> while trolling


on a wing and a prayer.. or one can always "lie", too, right? Where is the harm in a little white lie? 
Most accidents where driver is at fault happen on the "trolling" phase, to be honest. Driver is the most focused while pax is in the car. Period/phase I is the riskiest time, imo.

Here is a recent minor ex.;
https://uberpeople.net/threads/long-time-lurker-first-time-poster.29836/#post-386574


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Eat.Sleep.Drive said:


> on a wing and a prayer.. or one can always "lie", too, right? Where is the harm in a little white lie?
> Most accidents where driver is at fault happen on the "trolling" phase, to be honest. Driver is the most focused while pax is in the car. Period/phase I is the riskiest time, imo.
> 
> Here is a recent minor ex.;
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/long-time-lurker-first-time-poster.29836/#post-386574


You raise the same good points I have heard and read from insurance leaders. They are familiar with the risks, because this is nothing new, taxis have had those risks forever.


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

I'd be shocked if State Farm covered you in the event you got into an accident.

You don't get into accidents? Great. Here in Arizona, the minimum property damage coverage is only $10k. If you get into a wreck with a driver who has minimum coverage, his insurance will cover up to the limit and then tell you to go pound sand, which means you're going to have to use your own insurance. What's your insurance going to say when you tell them you were ride sharing at the time? Guess what happens when your insurance denies your claim?

Not to mention all of the uninsured illegals in this state. California is even worse with a $5k legally mandated property damage minimum. It's definitely not as simple as, "Well, it doesn't matter, because I don't get into accidents....". There are plenty of situations where it's not your fault, but you'll still have to utilize your own insurance.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

PHXTE said:


> It's definitely not as simple as, "Well, it doesn't matter, because I don't get into accidents....".


I certainly never said that, and I doubt anybody really would say that.

But even if my vehicle gets totaled and I must resort to a claim against my insurance and it gets denied for some strange reason, it's not the end of my world. I'm always equipped to purchase a replacement vehicle (remember, my vehicle is worth only about $7500). I wouldn't be happy about replacing it on my own dime, but at least I'm not driving a ridiculous $20k-plus vehicle like a lot of people.


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## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

Biovirus said:


> Another week of ubering and still I don't see why these tears flow so freely on this site
> 
> Keep ubering on brothers and sisters.


Your typical Uber driver, incompetent in business, so from what I am seeing is gross, not net, so how many trips and jobs and miles "wear and tear and depreciation on the car" did you do for those numbers, I would say cutting those numbers in half is more realistic.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

renbutler said:


> But even if my vehicle gets totaled and I must resort to a claim against my insurance and it gets denied for some strange reason, it's not the end of my world


Consider what you just said. If your insurance is cancelled after filling a claim relating to rideshare driving, it will be on record you committed insurance fraud. You may be able to be insured with another company and it probably will be at a much higher rate.

JM2¢W


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

renbutler said:


> I certainly never said that, and I doubt anybody really would say that.
> 
> But even if my vehicle gets totaled and I must resort to a claim against my insurance and it gets denied for some strange reason, it's not the end of my world. I'm always equipped to purchase a replacement vehicle (remember, my vehicle is worth only about $7500). I wouldn't be happy about replacing it on my own dime, but at least I'm not driving a ridiculous $20k-plus vehicle like a lot of people.


If you can afford to lose a $7.5k car like it's nothing, I'd question why you're doing Uber in the first place.


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## XUberMike (Aug 2, 2015)

renbutler said:


> You have to behave smartly to make money in the self-employed world. It's not for everybody.


FYI UBER drivers are not self employed. Self Employed get to set their income level as well as control their expenses. All Uber permits is for you to pick your hours. They dictate your price, your insurance, your car, your credits and when they deactivate you.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

renbutler said:


> super-nice hot soccer moms


How creepy!


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> Consider what you just said. If your insurance is cancelled after filling a claim relating to rideshare driving, it will be on record you committed insurance fraud. You may be able to be insured with another company and it probably will be at a much higher rate.
> 
> JM2¢W


Denying a claim and canceling are separate issues. State Farm just told me they won't cancel me just for Ubering.

Now, whether they approve or deny a claim is a separate issue that has nothing to do with fraud.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

XUberMike said:


> FYI UBER drivers are not self employed. Self Employed get to set their income level as well as control their expenses. All Uber permits is for you to pick your hours. They dictate your price, your insurance, your car, your credits and when they deactivate you.


I am self employed. Every agreement as a contractor is subject to terms.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

PHXTE said:


> If you can afford to lose a $7.5k car like it's nothing, I'd question why you're doing Uber in the first place.


Like it's nothing? That doesn't match what I actually said:

"I wouldn't be happy about replacing it on my own dime..."

I'm just able. Even still, I am still properly insured for the majority of my driving activities.


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## Honkadonk (Jul 20, 2015)

XUberMike said:


> FYI UBER drivers are not self employed. Self Employed get to set their income level as well as control their expenses. All Uber permits is for you to pick your hours. They dictate your price, your insurance, your car, your credits and when they deactivate you.


We'll see what happens with the court cases going forward. Eventually somethings gotta give with Uber; either they make us employees or they give us more freedom on the platform to operate. The grey area they're working now can't possibly last forever.


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## XUberMike (Aug 2, 2015)

renbutler said:


> I am self employed. Every agreement as a contractor is subject to terms.


Care to explained this?


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Uber has given me the opportunity to work for myself and be my own boss! I am extremely grateful! Thanks to Uber, I own my very own little company and my car is my office! Golly gee, I always wanted to be in business for myself, and now I am thanks to Uber! I set my own hours and everything! Every passenger is my client! This is so awesome!


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

renbutler said:


> It's closer to 30 cents per mile of expenses for me.


Something I would no publicly post. If an IRS rep has seen the post drivers in your area _could_ be audited for supplying false info when claiming standard mileage deductions.



renbutler said:


> I absolutely have confirmed it with my insurer: As long as Uber is at or less than 50% of the miles on the vehicle, my current policy is absolutely valid for everything I do.


I would want to see that I in writing from the SF Bloomington, IN home office. My SF agent says he has never heard of such a thing.You may want to re-read #40.

NOTE: SF is not my _auto_ insurer.



renbutler said:


> I am self employed. Every agreement as a contractor is subject to terms.


My SF agent said if one is self-employed running under the Uber platform, he needs _commercial _insurance b/c s/he is running a taxi business.

My car is worth 9k. I can afford to replace from personal funds, too. I will not risk my car ins when I.know my ins not covering me.

Addition: You say you've been driving for 20 yrs. From that I believe you are old enough to be my son. As a mother of someone your age, you are reading what I would tell my children if they told me the same things you have posted. Yes. Mothers are very good at doling out 
unwanted advice.

In the end it is your decision as a grown man. As my son once told me, he needed to experience the situation himself.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

XUberMike said:


> Care to explained this?


For example, you can "set your income" all you want, but then all your potential customers are free not to hire you based on that amount. If you want more than they are willing to pay, they simply pass on your services.

Uber is the same way. They know what financial terms are acceptable to them. And if we want to charge them more than that, they say "no thanks."


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> Something I would no publicly post. If an IRS rep has seen the post drivers in your area _could_ be audited for supplying false info when claiming standard mileage deductions.
> 
> I would want to see that I in writing from the SF Bloomington, IN home office. My SF agent says he has never heard of such a thing.You may want to re-read #40.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the replies. I do really appreciate when people talk respectfully to each other.

As for the IRS, the standard deduction is based on a national formula, with the full understanding that different people in different situations in different areas fall above or even well below that line.

It's actually one of the rare cases where the IRS makes things easy and beneficial for the self-employed.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

renbutler said:


> Thanks for the replies. I do really appreciate when people talk respectfully to each other.


I appreciate people who actively listen to what others "in the business" say and digest it. I have owned three successful businesses that ceased to exist when the service/product fell out of public favor.

Basically those on the forum are trying to show you where Uber fails us. They fail to give full commercial liability. The liability insurance in the end is more to cover the company in case of a lawsuit.

That "Partnership Agreement" is pretty one-sided. There is no input from the view of the IC. Since I am classified as self-employed, *that makes Uber my client*.

As my client . . .

1) Allow Uber to set the rates _no lower than_ half the cost of a taxi in the area, not at Uber's whim.

2) Uber does not discourage riders from giving gratuities to the drivers. That is a part of the IC's income. A rider's report that a gratuity was accepted or a pic of a sign stating "Tips Accepted" should be disregarded.

3) Uber's percentage of income taken from an IC's paycheck could be less than 20% with the low rates currently being charged, esp an Uber X driver. A lawyer representing the drivers could negotiate a smaller percentage for the drivers. Is this money what is paying the staff? Charge the the rider more & take less from the driver would still work.

(Post in progress)


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> Something I would no publicly post. If an IRS rep has seen the post drivers in your area _could_ be audited for supplying false info when claiming standard mileage deductions.


That's not true. The standard rate is the _standard_ and it's quite generous. You can always itemize your deductions as an altenative, but it's going to be a massive PITA, and you're probably opening yourself up to closer inspection if you do so. Plus, in order to do it properly, you should keep receipts.

Most people will make out better with the standard deduction rate rather than trying to itemize.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

PHXTE said:


> Most people will make out better with the standard deduction rate rather than trying to itemize.


I realize that.

I stand behind my statement. It would be a witch hunt for the IRS which is known to have targeted groups of people before.


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## XUberMike (Aug 2, 2015)

renbutler said:


> For example, you can "set your income" all you want, but then all your potential customers are free not to hire you based on that amount. If you want more than they are willing to pay, they simply pass on your services.
> 
> Uber is the same way. They know what financial terms are acceptable to them. And if we want to charge them more than that, they say "no thanks."


Really?

You proved my point. Financial terms acceptable to them, cancellation fees acceptable to them, acceptance rates acceptable to them, star ratings acceptable to them, pay period ends 4am, we pay you on Thursday...the list goes on. And yes if you dont like it you dont have to be employed by them.

If your truly S/E and you have a potential customer and you wish to paint a house for free have at it you want to charge double and lose the job that's your choice. You want to tell a customer to Foff you still work next day.

You rely on a APP from UBER, when it goes down your not working...try to pick up a client without a app, try to let your customer pay cash...your employed

You can't offer free rides or tell customers to F'off with UBER and expect to work tomorrow...your employed and must follow the rules of others...your employed


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

They might have all the leverage, but they are not our employers.

Considering all the drivers signing up worldwide, they are the ones in high demand, not us (as individuals).

I've been employed by a variety of different employers, and none of them really resembled what I'm doing now with Uber, for a large number of reasons discussed ad nauseum on this board. And I'm talking about the relationship, not the driving.


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## AFL2015 (Jul 11, 2015)

The IRS lets you expense $0.575 per mile for all vehicle related costs for business (read Uber/Lyft) driving. You need to include all miles driven - not just miles with PAX. Compare the total miles driven times $0.575 to your earnings statements. Unless you hit the surge pricing, or minimize deadhead miles, you're making little money. Good since you wont pay taxes - bad because you ain't making much money......


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

AFL2015 said:


> The IRS lets you expense $0.575 per mile for all vehicle related costs for business (read Uber/Lyft) driving. You need to include all miles driven - not just miles with PAX. Compare the total miles driven times $0.575 to your earnings statements. Unless you hit the surge pricing, or minimize deadhead miles, you're making little money. Good since you wont pay taxes - bad because you ain't making much money......


But that's just for taxable income. If you can keep your ACTUAL expenses well below 57.5 cents, your personal profits become more respectable. And outside the areas of the country with overregulation and high costs, it shouldn't be too hard to come in well below 57.5.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberNorthStar said:


> Something I would no publicly post. If an IRS rep has seen the post drivers in your area _could_ be audited for supplying false info when claiming standard mileage deductions.
> 
> I would want to see that I in writing from the SF Bloomington, IN home office. My SF agent says he has never heard of such a thing.You may want to re-read #40.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter what your car costs to run. If you choose to use mileage you get the same 57.5 cents no matter what. You are misinformed iif someone has told you differently.


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> I realize that.
> 
> I stand behind my statement. It would be a witch hunt for the IRS which is known to have targeted groups of people before.


You're certainly entitled to think what you want, but there are literally dozens of millions of people in this country that use the standard rate and the IRS isn't kicking down all of their doors. If anything, itemizing is going to cause more suspicion as it's much more ambigious.

But what do I know, it's not like I have a degree in accounting or have done taxes professionally, right?


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

AFL2015 said:


> The IRS lets you expense $0.575 per mile for all vehicle related costs for business (read Uber/Lyft) driving. You need to include all miles driven - not just miles with PAX. Compare the total miles driven times $0.575 to your earnings statements. Unless you hit the surge pricing, or minimize deadhead miles, you're making little money. Good since you wont pay taxes - bad because you ain't making much money......


Ok, let's make a distinction here because I think some are confused.

There's a *difference* between the IRS standard deduction rate of 57.5 cents/mile, and what your actual expenses are per mile. If you're doing this right, and you're anything like me, your expense rate per mile should be in the 20s, nowhere near the IRS rate. The IRS rate is only applicable as far as your taxable basis is concerned, i.e. what you can deduct from your earnings to determine what your taxable basis is and how much you owe in taxes.

IRS rate != actual expense rate.

I've yet to do my taxes for Uber, but I have a feeling you're not going to owe much once you calculate in your miles at that rate. People make a big deal about taxes on here but I have a feeling such a small profit is made on paper that it's irrelevant.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If you choose to use mileage you get the same 57.5 cents no matter what.


Again, I understand the IRS system as I have been self-employed before. I maybe a newbie to Uber; I definitely an not a newbie to the IRS.


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