# Desert Driver explains algorithm problems to Uber



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Uber is having a problem with me. I have a driver rating of 4.97+ but my acceptance rate is well below 100%. I receive congratulatory E-mails every week for my driver rating. I also receive scolding texts for my acceptance rate. This morning I took the time to explain the algorithm problems to Uber. Here's the text of my E-mail:

Thank you for that explanation, [Uber employee.] My rule of thumb, which is based on safety and rider cancellation rates, is NOT to accept a ride request if it is behind me when I am traveling on a highway or on a busy street. First, there is the obvious danger of getting turned around while traveling on a highway or busy street. Second, according to my research and data collection, if the driver can't get turned around in under 45 seconds, the rider will cancel the ride 70% of the time when the rider sees his driver going the wrong direction. So, by the time the driver gets into the proper lane and then executes a U-turn or exits the highway to change directions, the rider will cancel the ride. In the interest of personal safety and maximum profitability, I have a personal policy of NOT accepting ride requests that are behind me when I'm traveling on a highway or busy street at a high rate of speed.

The problem with the system algorithm is that it needs to become based on _predictive_ travel, not _historical_ travel. That way, we drivers do not create a danger for ourselves or other motorists by executing U-turns and other turn-around maneuvers. Now, if you were to look at my acceptance rate of ride requests that coincide with my current direction of travel, you would see that I am at 100%. And that is the more accurate metric because it is based on safety and maximization of driver profit. Given the rate cuts in most markets, Uber is going to see more drivers adopting and implementing policies such as those that I subscribe to. There is little to no upside to changing direction of travel to respond to a ride request when there is such a high probability the rider will cancel before the driver can get safely turned around and arrive in a timely manner.

On a related note, I also do not accept ride requests that are more than 10 minutes away. Again, with rate cuts in my city, it becomes a zero-sum game to travel more than 10 minutes to pick up a passenger who is more than 10 minutes away. On the driver forums that I participate on, more and more Uber drivers are adhering to policies such as this. As drivers, we cannot afford to accept ride requests that produce no profit, or actually result in a loss. The only viable alternative to this situation, of course, is to call the rider and ask what their final destination is. If it is not a long enough trip to be profitable for the driver, the driver would then explain to the rider that he's not interested in making the trip and he then cancels. This is just simple, pragmatic business sense. Uber needs to develop a policy here for the drivers because even new Uber drivers are figuring out when a trip is profitable and when a trip is unprofitable. The current policy of accepting all ride requests makes no sense to men and women who operate as independent contractors. After all, we're driving for profit, not charity.

I hope this helps. I would normally charge a consulting fee for the information I have provided, but I am willing to provide this work pro bono for Uber.

Most respectfully.

[Desert Driver]
(4.97+ driver rating)


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

You're the best.  I hope the CSR has time to read it, with their quotas, and forward it to someone who cares.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

CityGirl said:


> You're the best.  I hope the CSR has time to read it, with their quotas, and forward it to someone who cares.


Thank, CG. The only way things will ever get better is if Uber understands what the problems are. And given my background in business, statistics, and logistics, Uber would be well-advised to pay attention to my comments. Hell, I typically charge a handsome sum for the information that I freely give to Uber. But I do that not for Uber's sake, but for my fellow drivers. I will post any comments and replies I receive from Uber.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Since when did picking a up passenger from point A and deliver them to point B become so trivial. Here's a "modified" version of the first post:: driver go to pax pickup... anything over 5 min. cancel his/her arse... if pickup successful take pax to destination (the most direct way possible)...if you encounter any primadonnas, refer them to the limo services and so on...... 

the less you know the better....


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## Chris Dee (Nov 19, 2014)

Your rating is pretty good but you would never have that here in Miami for too long. Regardless of how much (*) you kiss.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Chris Dee said:


> Your rating is pretty good but you would never have that here in Miami for too long. Regardless of how much (*) you kiss.


Desert Driver would never kiss. Never has. Likely...never will.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

You're spot on in everything you said. 

You left out however, why not accepting requests from behind you leads to a higher rating. 

It's because those 30% that don't cancel will give a low rating for taking longer to get to them than what the Uber app told them it would be.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Since when did picking a up passenger from point A and deliver them to point B become so trivial. Here's a "modified" version of the first post:: driver go to pax pickup... anything over 5 min. cancel his/her arse... if pickup successful take pax to destination (the most direct way possible)...if you encounter any primadonnas, refer them to the limo services and so on......
> 
> the less you know the better....


Factually, understanding and applying logistics to maximize profit is not trivial in the least.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Since when did picking a up passenger from point A and deliver them to point B become so trivial. Here's a "modified" version of the first post:: driver go to pax pickup... anything over 5 min. cancel his/her arse... if pickup successful take pax to destination (the most direct way possible)...if you encounter any primadonnas, refer them to the limo services and so on......
> 
> the less you know the better....


From a business perspective, a request to take passenger from point A and deliver them to point B that is 20 minutes away is A LOT DIFFERENT than the same request when it's only 2 minutes away.

Likewise customer satisfaction is a lot different when the driver the customer is are connected to is heading away from them for a minute or two than when the same customer is connected to a driver already headed in their direction.

Travis Kalanick treats riders and drivers like they are nothing more than MP3 music files. He is completely disconnected from the fact that they are people, who have different needs and agendas other than making Uber a $40 billion company. Travis is a great engineer, but he SUCKS at customer service. Why do you think neither drivers nor riders can call Uber?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> You're spot on in everything you said.
> 
> You left out however, why not accepting requests from behind you leads to a higher rating.
> 
> It's because those 30% that don't cancel will give a low rating for taking longer to get to them than what the Uber app told them it would be.


Wow! That's an excellent point! I can't come up with any data to support it, but the logic is precise and rational. Thanks for adding that.

You may have just provided evidence that helps explain why I am now in my seventh week of ONLY five-star ratings. I started the policy of not accepting pings behind me about 6 weeks ago. I hadn't tied the two together. Thank you.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Uber is having a problem with me. I have a driver rating of 4.97+ but my acceptance rate is well below 100%. I receive congratulatory E-mails every week for my driver rating. I also receive scolding texts for my acceptance rate. This morning I took the time to explain the algorithm problems to Uber. Here's the text of my E-mail:...


You are my hero.

I am in the exact same situation, with one additional caveat: I am enrolled in the UberSELECT program - which [supposedly] gives me the "option" to accept UberX rides. However, when I choose not to accept an UberX ride, In Uber's world it still counts against my overall acceptance rate. This misapplication of the acceptance rate caused Uber to disqualify me from the Winter Warm-Up "hourly incentive" last week when I decided to accept only UberSELECT requests during 'peak' hours.

Explaining this to the local Uber CSR in detail got me this sarcastic response:

*xxxxx* (Uber)
Feb 17, 12:39
xxxxxx,

Sorry that you are disappointed with the Uber platform.
I have updated our system with your feedback for future reference and improvements.
Apologies again your partnership with Uber is not lucrative enough to meet your approval.

Regards,

xxxxxxxxx
Uber | Community Support​


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

CityGirl said:


> I hope the CSR has time to read it, with their quotas, and forward it to someone who cares.


The only people at Uber who would care, in my opinion, are those 'down' the chain of command, not up.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> *xxxxx* (Uber)
> Feb 17, 12:39
> xxxxxx,
> 
> ...


UberSelect is lucrative enough to meet my approval.
UberX however is NOT lucrative enough to my my approval (unless it is surging).

I have to buy premium gas for my car, and the car costs $35,000 to replace. Passengers shouldn't be entitled to a more expensive product/service for UberX rates.

So the only disappointment is that Uber employees appear to be dumbasses for thinking UberX customers should be given rides in two year old Acura TLs.


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## jason_womack (Nov 17, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> From a business perspective, a request to take passenger from point A and deliver them to point B that is 20 minutes away is A LOT DIFFERENT than the same request when it's only 2 minutes away.
> 
> Likewise customer satisfaction is a lot different when the driver the customer is are connected to is heading away from them for a minute or two than when the same customer is connected to a driver already headed in their direction.
> 
> Travis Kalanick treats riders and drivers like they are nothing more than MP3 music files. He is completely disconnected from the fact that they are people, who have different needs and agendas other than making Uber a $40 billion company. Travis is a great engineer, but he SUCKS at customer service. Why do you think neither drivers nor riders can call Uber?


I used to work for McGraw-Hill in their call center. We would get so inundated with support (calls and e-mails) that we would shut the phones off.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

jason_womack said:


> I used to work for McGraw-Hill in their call center. We would get so inundated with support (calls and e-mails) that we would shut the phones off.


So customers want to call, but McGraw-Hill is too cheap to staff it appropriately to meet customer demand.

At least that's better than not having a call center at all like Uber.


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## UberDesson (Jan 18, 2015)

Eloquent piece of reasoning. Desert Driver for President!


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## xr650r (Dec 22, 2014)

I dont think half of Uber's CSR have driver's licenses.I think they are college students posting pre-planned answers.Paid by the amount of responses they put out.


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## jason_womack (Nov 17, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> So customers want to call, but McGraw-Hill is too cheap to staff it appropriately to meet customer demand.
> 
> At least that's better than not having a call center at all like Uber.


Too cheap yes, but at the beginning of a semester they would bring 100-150 new contractors on so the total number of agents would be a little over 200 usually. We would get slammed and the phone would redirect them to fill out the online form for e-mail support. Should have mentioned that before


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

xr650r said:


> I dont think half of Uber's CSR have driver's licenses.I think they are college students posting pre-planned answers.Paid by the amount of responses they put out.


You may be correct. However, I have been persistent enough in the past with Uber CSRs that I have actually received phone calls from execs in Frisco to address my concerns. They know who I am and they know that I talk to a lot of drivers.


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## xr650r (Dec 22, 2014)

Desert Driver-I think you are getting 1 or 2 levels above the standard CSR that send out the canned email answers.Keep bugging them.My opinion is that Uber wasnt originally planned to support drivers running thier own business.Some software geeks noticed cars with empty seats and found a way to fill them.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

In one line:

Make rates reasonable enough to justify making a U turn and driving long distances to pick up riders.


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You may be correct. However, I have been persistent enough in the past with Uber CSRs that I have actually received phone calls from execs in Frisco to address my concerns. They know who I am and they know that I talk to a lot of drivers.


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## Ram (Dec 20, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Since when did picking a up passenger from point A and deliver them to point B become so trivial. Here's a "modified" version of the first post:: driver go to pax pickup... anything over 5 min. cancel his/her arse... if pickup successful take pax to destination (the most direct way possible)...if you encounter any primadonnas, refer them to the limo services and so on......
> 
> the less you know the better....


how come do u read 10 min as 5 min and are u a driver or just find extra time to chit chat?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Luberon said:


> In one line:
> 
> Make rates reasonable enough to justify making a U turn and driving long distances to pick up riders.


We drivers understand such a philosophy very clearly. Uber policymakers who have spent no time on the street simply don't comprehend that logic.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Well written letter/email to uber. But let's be realistic. Uber is most likely going to email back one of their typical "canned responses"....Something like "We appreciate your concern and input on this matter, and our (systems, or com programmers, or whatever you call them) will consider your suggestion"......


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Uber is having a problem with me. I have a driver rating of 4.97+ but my acceptance rate is well below 100%. I receive congratulatory E-mails every week for my driver rating. I also receive scolding texts for my acceptance rate. This morning I took the time to explain the algorithm problems to Uber. Here's the text of my E-mail:
> 
> Thank you for that explanation, [Uber employee.] My rule of thumb, which is based on safety and rider cancellation rates, is NOT to accept a ride request if it is behind me when I am traveling on a highway or on a busy street. First, there is the obvious danger of getting turned around while traveling on a highway or busy street. Second, according to my research and data collection, if the driver can't get turned around in under 45 seconds, the rider will cancel the ride 70% of the time when the rider sees his driver going the wrong direction. So, by the time the driver gets into the proper lane and then executes a U-turn or exits the highway to change directions, the rider will cancel the ride. In the interest of personal safety and maximum profitability, I have a personal policy of NOT accepting ride requests that are behind me when I'm traveling on a highway or busy street at a high rate of speed.
> 
> ...


I had discovered the same problem and written to Uber multiple times complaining and suggesting how they should give ETAs and match drivers with riders.
But your email is written in such a way that, it can be used as a template by a slight modification by many of us.
Thanks for sharing!


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## Rut Dog (Nov 13, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> I will post any comments and replies I receive from Uber.


Occasionally, when I have an important communication, I will send the same email multiple times, with slight modifications, at different times.

I've never been called out for spamming. And find that this type of "crowdsourcing" customer service can get a more rounded answer. In your case, it will be in front of more people, one of whom might actually understand or pay attention to what your are saying.

Lastly, I have the personal email for the operations manager in my area. He is quite interested in what we have to say about these things.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Ram said:


> how come do u read 10 min as 5 min and are u a driver or just find extra time to chit chat?


go away little troll, before I send you to the cooler


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Well written letter/email to uber. But let's be realistic. Uber is most likely going to email back one of their typical "canned responses"....Something like "We appreciate your concern and input on this matter, and our (systems, or com programmers, or whatever you call them) will consider your suggestion"......


You underestimate Desert Driver. Desert Driver has actually gotten phone calls from Uber execs in Frisco after sending E-mails and posting here.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

im pretty sure Uber knows all this though
but dont we know that Uber is pro-pax, and can really careless about the driver?


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## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

Chris Dee said:


> Your rating is pretty good but you would never have that here in Miami for too long. Regardless of how much (*) you kiss.


You're an idiot!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberXking said:


> You're an idiot!


Chris isn't an idiot. He just doesn't understand DD's charms.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Who's Chris?


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## Chris Dee (Nov 19, 2014)

You have no idea how it is to drive in Miami.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Who's Chris?


Chris Dee...the bloke you called an idiot.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Chris Dee said:


> You have no idea how it is to drive in Miami.


Likewise, Miami has never experienced the charms of Desert Driver. So there's that.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Likewise, Miami has never experienced the charms of Desert Driver. So there's that.


You'll need to speak spanish to make that happen.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> You'll need to speak spanish to make that happen.


Buenas dias, mi amigo simpatico.


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## Chris Dee (Nov 19, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Chris Dee...the bloke you called an idiot.


I know, I feel sorry for that person. They are on ignore and have been reported to the mod for abusive language.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Well written letter/email to uber. But let's be realistic. Uber is most likely going to email back one of their typical "canned responses"....Something like "We appreciate your concern and input on this matter, and our (systems, or com programmers, or whatever you call them) will consider your suggestion"......


Once when I was with local UBER managers, I pointed out some of the operational differences between the Uber App and a rival App and how the shortcomings of the UBER App were generating so many complaints.

The comment that followed was an insight into UBER's culture. It was something to the effect of:

"We try and remain focused on our core objectives. Filtering out the noise that Others generate to deviate us from our objective is very important".

The use of the word "noise" was very telling. Complaints, comparisons suggestions, experiences from on road operators all came under the category "Noise".


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## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

You know DD I thought I knew everything about X but I have found myself copying you more than once. You gave me the idea for my avatar also I'm going to quote you at my Uber meeting after they deactivate me for under 60% acceptance rate. You may remember my post if it is cost prohibitive U have to cancel. Without knowing destination over 5 min is to far. Lie to me with est 4 min trip to pax then change to 9 min better hope the pax answers my call before I pass him. Ping me a reg fare on the other side of the street from a 2.5 surge after I've driven 20 minutes I'll be right on it .... WHEN YOU QUIT HIRING
for now have the newbie's take care of the surge dodgers..thank you very much


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Chris Dee said:


> I know, I feel sorry for that person. They are on ignore and have been reported to the mod for abusive language.


Seriously, now we're being put on waivers for potty mouth? When the **** did that start?


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Chris Dee said:


> I know, I feel sorry for that person. They are on ignore and have been reported to the mod for abusive language.


Stifler, does your mom driver for UBER.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> You underestimate Desert Driver. Desert Driver has actually gotten phone calls from Uber execs in Frisco after sending E-mails and posting here.


You've must written one heck of an algorithm to achieve such a feat. I don't even know if Sheldon Cooper could have accomplished that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberXking said:


> You know DD I thought I knew everything about X but I have found myself copying you more than once. You gave me the idea for my avatar also I'm going to quote you at my Uber meeting after they deactivate me for under 60% acceptance rate. You may remember my post if it is cost prohibitive U have to cancel. Without knowing destination over 5 min is to far. Lie to me with est 4 min trip to pax then change to 9 min better hope the pax answers my call before I pass him. Ping me a reg fare on the other side of the street from a 2.5 surge after I've driven 20 minutes I'll be right on it .... WHEN YOU QUIT HIRING
> for now have the newbie's take care of the surge dodgers..thank you very much


I like the way you think!


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## Chris Dee (Nov 19, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Stifler, does your mom driver for UBER.


Uhhh, no....


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Chris Dee said:


> You have no idea how it is to drive in Miami.


I'm sure drug cartel riders tip very well.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> You may be correct. However, I have been persistent enough in the past with Uber CSRs that I have actually received phone calls from execs in Frisco to address my concerns. They know who I am and they know that I talk to a lot of drivers.


I hope your life insurance premiums are up to date.


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