# What a Driver found out when he asked his matched UberPool riders how much they paid!



## chi1cabby

*Is Uber Skimming off the top?
By hackajar 

https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.mpme01xge*


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## ABC123DEF

Uber loves you and will do everything to make sure that there is always a trustworthy relationship with drivers at all times. Partner earnings are at the forefront of everything they do. Trust them!


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## Beur

Why am I not surprised


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## Lord Summerisle

Don't pick up additional riders and enable this disgusting scam.


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## SafeT

Next law suit...


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## chi1cabby

*The next big lawsuit will be #UberPoolLAWSUIT*




chi1cabby said:


> Explain to your next matched UberPool Riders that Uber is charging each of the Riders more than the amounts it is basing the payouts to the Drivers.






chi1cabby said:


> Explain to them that Uber is refusing to answer your questions on the matter, and is refusing to disclose the higher amounts charged to the Riders.






chi1cabby said:


> Ask them to please share their receipts for the trip by text or email, so that Drivers can expose & stop this fraudulent practice by Uber.






chi1cabby said:


> We need many Drivers to get UberPool fare receipts from the Riders. Then I'll get a crack reporter to write an exposé on how Drivers are being fraudulently shortchanged in Payouts on UberPool fares.
> Class Action #UberPoolLAWSUIT would follow in due course...


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## SafeT

If this is true, it's no wonder they are pushing UberFool so hard. Hopefully more Pool drivers will chime in.


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## ABC123DEF

Big Foober may not have any pants once all these lawsuits are done.


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## LEAFdriver

My research wasn't quite as thorough....but this was my one chance to see what matched riders paid on their trip to the same destination:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/pool-rides.67439/#post-922027


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## Bart McCoy

Beur said:


> Why am I not surprised


What is there to be surprised about? Did drivers really think they would get paid double the fare (1 for each different pax party) for pool rides? NO. And uber tells you this upfront,so no surprise.

When you do a pool ride, there's no secret as to how and how much you get paid. They clearly have a pool rate schedule for every market. No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


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## secretadmirer

I'm glad I never got stuck doing uberpool. Just reading Bart's admiration of it is bad enough. Why don't you tell us what the fine print says verbatim, instead of this tedious lecture. Maybe that'll clarify it.


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## Beur

Bart McCoy said:


> What is there to be surprised about? Did drivers really think they would get paid double the fare (1 for each different pax party) for pool rides? NO. And uber tells you this upfront,so no surprise.
> 
> When you do a pool ride, there's no secret as to how and how much you get paid. They clearly have a pool rate schedule for every market. No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


Well Bart McCoy we don't have UberPool in my market, why don't you take the time to explain the fine print details of accepting an UberPool ride for those of us who have zero exposure to the service. Here's your chance to educate your fellow drivers about a product that might be coming to their market.


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## TwoFiddyMile

ABC123DEF said:


> Big Foober may not have any pants once all these lawsuits are done.


My bet is the lost pants reveals a little tiny dinky.


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## Bart McCoy

Beur said:


> Well Bart McCoy we don't have UberPool in my market, why don't you take the time to explain the fine print details of accepting an UberPool ride for those of us who have zero exposure to the service. Here's your chance to educate your fellow drivers about a product that might be coming to their market.


I pretty much explained the fine print. You dont have uberpool but im sure you have X, so say its 85cents/mile and 20cents/min with $1.50 base in your market. When Uber introduces pool to you, they will give you a new schedule, which may say you get paid 90 cents/mile, 12cents/min, and $1.00 base. Now no matter if you pick up 8 different pax parties, you will get paid simply by the time(12cent) and distance(90cent) that you drive. Plus the base rate one time. I mean its straightforward forward like that. Uber does NOT hide this. Uber does NOT tell you that a you get paid double the fare if you happen to take 2 diff pax parties to the same place. There is absolutely no surprise about how you get paid for pool. Anyone with common sense and can read knows all of this before they accept their first pool ride.

So you know how YOU get paid, but the article is about how much Uber gets paid for the pool. That's the same as you not knowing me but asking me how much money is in my bank account....that doest matter,when we have a contract saying im paying you 12cent and 90cent a mile.... You get it?

Now people like chicabby will pull up your original nanl agreement ment that supposedly says different. However if this was so simple, and illegal as some has called it, it would be a quick and easy lawsuit. Last I checked a lawsuit hasnt even been filed. WHY, if its such a blatant breach of the uber contract you first signed up with.


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## Just_in

Bart McCoy said:


> I pretty much explained the fine print. You dont have uberpool but im sure you have X, so say its 85cents/mile and 20cents/min with $1.50 base in your market. When Uber introduces pool to you, they will give you a new schedule, which may say you get paid 90 cents/mile, 12cents/min, and $1.00 base. Now no matter if you pick up 8 different pax parties, you will get paid simply by the time(12cent) and distance(90cent) that you drive. Plus the base rate one time. I mean its straightforward forward like that. Uber does NOT hide this. Uber does NOT tell you that a you get paid double the fare if you happen to take 2 diff pax parties to the same place. There is absolutely no surprise about how you get paid for pool. Anyone with common sense and can read knows all of this before they accept their first pool ride.
> 
> So you know how YOU get paid, but the article is about how much Uber gets paid for the pool. That's the same as you not knowing me but asking me how much money is in my bank account....that doest matter,when we have a contract saying im paying you 12cent and 90cent a mile.... You get it?
> 
> Now people like chicabby will pull up your original nanl agreement ment that supposedly says different. However if this was so simple, and illegal as some has called it, it would be a quick and easy lawsuit. Last I checked a lawsuit hasnt even been filed.* WHY, if its such a blatant breach of the uber contract you first signed up with*.


Your forgetting the paying consumer who uses the service..


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## Beur

Bart McCoy said:


> I pretty much explained the fine print. You dont have uberpool but im sure you have X, so say its 85cents/mile and 20cents/min with $1.50 base in your market. When Uber introduces pool to you, they will give you a new schedule, which may say you get paid 90 cents/mile, 12cents/min, and $1.00 base. Now no matter if you pick up 8 different pax parties, you will get paid simply by the time(12cent) and distance(90cent) that you drive. Plus the base rate one time. I mean its straightforward forward like that. Uber does NOT hide this. Uber does NOT tell you that a you get paid double the fare if you happen to take 2 diff pax parties to the same place. There is absolutely no surprise about how you get paid for pool. Anyone with common sense and can read knows all of this before they accept their first pool ride.
> 
> So you know how YOU get paid, but the article is about how much Uber gets paid for the pool. That's the same as you not knowing me but asking me how much money is in my bank account....that doest matter,when we have a contract saying im paying you 12cent and 90cent a mile.... You get it?
> 
> Now people like chicabby will pull up your original nanl agreement ment that supposedly says different. However if this was so simple, and illegal as some has called it, it would be a quick and easy lawsuit. Last I checked a lawsuit hasnt even been filed. WHY, if its such a blatant breach of the uber contract you first signed up with.


Why so angry and hostile?


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## chi1cabby

Bart McCoy said:


> No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


Given your extraordinary aptitude in deciphering the Uber fine print, perhaps you can also educate the Forum on this:

*A question for Tax Pros: How does Uber resolve the discrepancy in UberPool payments in 1099-K forms?*


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## UberBlackPr1nce

The current crop of drivers are complete morons.


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## ABC123DEF

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> The current crop of drivers are complete morons.


Yes, they most certainly are! Oh...darn...that includes me too for taking part in this idiocy!


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## Drive777

chi1cabby said:


> Given your extraordinary aptitude in deciphering the Uber fine print, perhaps you can also educate the Forum on this:
> 
> *A question for Tax Pros: How does Uber resolve the discrepancy in UberPool payments in 1099-K forms?*


Good point. If Uber operated the way Bart described, they should issue 1099-MISC's. That way they could charge the pax whatever they want, and pay the driver whatever they want according to a set fee schedule.

But to avoid appearances of being a transportation company, or in any way being connected with its partners, Uber has opted to define itself as nothing but a "payment processor" of which the entire amount paid by passengers is considered the driver's income. From this gross amount, Uber takes its commission and fees. That won't work on UberPool however, because the driver fee schedule, which is a reflection of gross amounts processed through the payment processor (Uber) cannot be specifically defined. It is variable based on the number of pool rides a driver picks up between first point A and final point Z.

Uber wants to have it both ways. Control the driver's pay and thoroughly disconnect it from the value of the service paid by riders, but then tell the driver his income consists 100% of what the rider pays, subject to a set rate and minus certain fees agreed upon in a fee schedule.

This is doublespeak at its finest.


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## tohunt4me

ABC123DEF said:


> Uber loves you and will do everything to make sure that there is always a trustworthy relationship with drivers at all times. Partner earnings are at the forefront of everything they do. Trust them!


Just Drive.


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## LEAFdriver

Drive777 said:


> This is *doublespeak* at its finest.


THIS ^^^^^^^ (in all honesty) is what Uber EXCELS at!


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## JimS

Read my sig...


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## DCUberXGrrrl

Hey, ho! Hey ho! UberFool has got to go!!! Drive for Uber and be your own boss - LOL!


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## UberPartnerDennis

Interesting this came up...I have been involved in a email chain with Uber regarding pool...I just got a response from a supervisor ... I posted it over in the pay forum but will post it here and delete that thread....here is what Uber said:

Hello ******,

My name is Chase and I'll be stepping in here for Toya.

I read your emails and understand where you're coming from so, what I'd like to do, is just give you some input from our side of things.

I know you're frustrated with POOL but one thing I'd like you to consider is this: It works. Now, you may not have first hand experience with this seeing what you wrote in about, but it does. We are aware that the _per trip_ amount may be lower for partners but their _hourly amount_ has raised in every city POOL has been established in.

The reason for this is that accepting and completing uberPOOL trips increases partners' overall efficiency. For instance an uberX trip that goes from A to B may be around $10 and might take you 20 mins, let's say. Now, that that same trip on POOL, could be about $7 as a very loose example. Again, not an exact amount, just an example with round numbers. If that rider requests a POOL trip instead that means you then have the chance to match with someone else.

If this happens, you're already making more than the original X trip. You will be going a short distance out of your way, sometimes if at all, to pick someone up going the same direction or near the same destination. That second person could also be a $7 fare. What that means is that the same X trip, with just a little more effort, becomes a $14 fare instead of a $10 fare. You may even match with a third person and could turn it in to a $21 trip. This is just a basic example, obviously, but we do see an overall increase.

Of course all this is dependent on a lot of factors. I know you've had issues with the matches being too far out or you're having to backtrack to get to them and we own that. We know that the platform isn't perfect and we are constantly pushing to make sure it works the best it can. We also know that you may not always get a matched trip. That's not good either and it can be the most frustrating part, and not just for you. We want riders to hop on board and be taking POOL trips as much as possible. It's a cheap alternative for them and a money making one for you. It's literally a win-win situation for riders and partners.

What I'm asking of you is to believe in the product and stay patient with it. We know it works, we've seen it work and one thing to keep in mind is that we don't make money until you do. There is no point in us doing anything other than maximizing your profits and POOL is a phenomenal way to do that. We will keep pushing for riders to use it more and the more they do, the more benefits you'll see from it. If you believe in the product, the riders will too.

As for your concern about using your phone the law in California is for the use of a handsfree device when using your phone. Touching it is just fine. When a ping for the next trip hits, all you need to do it tap the screen to accept it. What you're doing to accept that trip is no different than what you'd do to turn on your AC or change the radio station. This isn't something I have heard of from a driver that has caused them to be ticketed. I used to live in LA and don't see this being an issue but, it's your car, it's your call. We can't force you to do anything you're uncomfortable with nor would we ever. Bottom line is, it's your call.

I'm not expecting this to answer all of your concerns about POOL but I _am_ hoping it's helped.

Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Cheers,

*Chase,
Uber | Community Support*
help.uber.com

****************

Below every rose bush that smells beautiful and flowery is a pile of poop that helps it grow...remember that


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## Bart McCoy

UberPartnerDennis said:


> The reason for this is that accepting and completing uberPOOL trips increases partners' overall efficiency. For instance an uberX trip that goes from A to B may be around $10 and might take you 20 mins, let's say. Now, that that same trip on POOL, could be about $7 as a very loose example. Again, not an exact amount, just an example with round numbers. If that rider requests a POOL trip instead that means you then have the chance to match with someone else.t


Well this is possible, and this is indeed how pool can you make you more money than X, as long as the trip is as A ---> B good number of miles, then B -----> C good number of miles. But pool sucks majorly and uber makes more profit when basically 2 pax go A ------> C. Let me explain:

What I quoted from you is a good example of A---> B then B-----> C which the CSR described. Its what you want with pool (if you plan to make any money). The worse case is close to a A ---> C as possible. (by the way, when the CSR says "You will be going a short distance out of your way, sometimes if at all, to pick someone up going the same direction or near the same destination." <--- that is NOT what you want. You want to go the farthest distance out of your way, since, you are getting paid by distance,as well as time)

So worst case A---> C is this: Say you pick up at a concert venue. You get first pax in car,then before you move(since many people at venue),you get another ping and another pax to hop in. So at this point you drove 0.0 miles to get 2nd pax. Meaning you get paid zilch for picking up the 2nd pax. Now, lets say they BOTH happen to be going to the same neighborhood, 25 miles away. So when you get to point C, you drop 1st pax off,then drive 2 blocks to drop off 2nd pax. In this scenario, (which Uber LOVES to have happen) the only additional money you are making is the distance and probably 38seconds it took you to drive the 2 blocks to drop each pax off. So basically you took 2 pax 25miles, but get paid for 1 pax. So the whole outcry of this post is that drivers think/believe/want to get paid for 50miles of driving (charging each pax). BUT, for me at least, since I know how to read and comprehend plain english, I already know that before I even accepted the pool ride,that I would only get paid for the distance I drove. That distance is 25miles, NOT 50miles.I clearly didn't drive 50miles.

At the end of the trip, you will get 2 trip payouts. Lets say Uber set the pool fare to $40. 1st pax will say $40 fare and 24.9distance. 2nd pax will say $0.20 (20 cents,and thats if your pool fee schedule said you get $2/mile,which of course, nobody comes close to that, just using this as a fake scenario) fare and distance of 0.1miles (even though he went 25 miles). And yes Uber most likely charged him $40 for the trip just like the other pax was charged, but in reality, you only got paid 20cents for his ride. So uber made roughly $80, and you made roughly $50. So its that extra $30 that everybody is crying about

Whether your original Uber contract claims you get the 50 miles paid to you,is something that needs to be taken up in court. And once again, if its so obvious that Uber is breaking their agreement with you, what is the hold up on the lawsuit? I mean Uber has been allegedly doing illegal pool rides for over a year now. This should be an easy case for drivers to win right? can't win without a lawsuit though......

Furthermore, if drivers did , or are supposed to get the 50miles paid instead of 25, then of course, there would be NO point in pool. At all. Like why would any pax pay reg rate to SHARE their ride with a starnger AND have it take much longer to get to their destination? The only way pool works is because Uber can offer them a discount while ripping you off lol.

Its similar to a bus driver. How odd would it be if a bus driver asked to receive the fares for all 82 of the passengers hes carrying.....................?????????????????? Bus companies employ the exact same tactic. BUT uber lets you know youre gonna get ripped off before you even accept the pool ride. One thing I can say, Uber does NOT hide the fact that you won't score double on pool rides. at all. They are very transparent with that. Only people who are clues are folks who can't read the black and white print in the set UberPool fee schedules...


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## JimS

Point is, the CSR is lying. Uber gets two smaller fares, but the driver only gets the equivalent to one total fare. Not fair to expect double or more the money for what's essentially a single seamless trip? Uber doesn't think so, as they charge EACH rider a booking fee, which the driver sees no part of.


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## andaas

Bart McCoy - While I do grasp how Pool is supposed to pay out, if you look at the examples shown in the link at the beginning of this thread, even *those* numbers don't work out like you have explained it.

If passenger #1 fare is $7.21, and passenger #2 fare is $7.61. How is the driver's earned gross fare only $4.29? The gross fare should be AT LEAST $7.61.

The driver's net earnings for this ride were $4.29 - 1.55 (booking fee) - 1.07 (commission) = $3.22.

That just doesn't work in any logical sense.

In this case, Uber took another full share of the drivers net earnings ($3.33) for themselves, on top of the double fare they earned from the two passengers. Uber's total take for this ride was $11.60, compared to the drivers $3.22.


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## arto71

chi1cabby said:


> *Is Uber Skimming off the top?
> https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.mpme01xge*


And how do they achieve this?
Giving misleading impression to its pax, "Pool never surges" , but it does .









Same for its drivers, mislead and mislead. we were magically 1 min away from every pool pings ( thanks God they finally fixed it )


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## Friendly Jack

Lord Summerisle said:


> Don't pick up additional riders and enable this disgusting scam.


Better yet, don't even accept any Pool ping!


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## DCUberXGrrrl

UberPartnerDennis said:


> Interesting this came up...I have been involved in a email chain with Uber regarding pool...I just got a response from a supervisor ... I posted it over in the pay forum but will post it here and delete that thread....here is what Uber said:
> 
> Hello ******,
> 
> My name is Chase and I'll be stepping in here for Toya.
> 
> I read your emails and understand where you're coming from so, what I'd like to do, is just give you some input from our side of things.
> 
> I know you're frustrated with POOL but one thing I'd like you to consider is this: It works. Now, you may not have first hand experience with this seeing what you wrote in about, but it does. We are aware that the _per trip_ amount may be lower for partners but their _hourly amount_ has raised in every city POOL has been established in.
> 
> The reason for this is that accepting and completing uberPOOL trips increases partners' overall efficiency. For instance an uberX trip that goes from A to B may be around $10 and might take you 20 mins, let's say. Now, that that same trip on POOL, could be about $7 as a very loose example. Again, not an exact amount, just an example with round numbers. If that rider requests a POOL trip instead that means you then have the chance to match with someone else.
> 
> If this happens, you're already making more than the original X trip. You will be going a short distance out of your way, sometimes if at all, to pick someone up going the same direction or near the same destination. That second person could also be a $7 fare. What that means is that the same X trip, with just a little more effort, becomes a $14 fare instead of a $10 fare. You may even match with a third person and could turn it in to a $21 trip. This is just a basic example, obviously, but we do see an overall increase.
> 
> Of course all this is dependent on a lot of factors. I know you've had issues with the matches being too far out or you're having to backtrack to get to them and we own that. We know that the platform isn't perfect and we are constantly pushing to make sure it works the best it can. We also know that you may not always get a matched trip. That's not good either and it can be the most frustrating part, and not just for you. We want riders to hop on board and be taking POOL trips as much as possible. It's a cheap alternative for them and a money making one for you. It's literally a win-win situation for riders and partners.
> 
> What I'm asking of you is to believe in the product and stay patient with it. We know it works, we've seen it work and one thing to keep in mind is that we don't make money until you do. There is no point in us doing anything other than maximizing your profits and POOL is a phenomenal way to do that. We will keep pushing for riders to use it more and the more they do, the more benefits you'll see from it. If you believe in the product, the riders will too.
> 
> As for your concern about using your phone the law in California is for the use of a handsfree device when using your phone. Touching it is just fine. When a ping for the next trip hits, all you need to do it tap the screen to accept it. What you're doing to accept that trip is no different than what you'd do to turn on your AC or change the radio station. This isn't something I have heard of from a driver that has caused them to be ticketed. I used to live in LA and don't see this being an issue but, it's your car, it's your call. We can't force you to do anything you're uncomfortable with nor would we ever. Bottom line is, it's your call.
> 
> I'm not expecting this to answer all of your concerns about POOL but I _am_ hoping it's helped.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> *Chase,
> Uber | Community Support*
> help.uber.com
> 
> ****************
> 
> Below every rose bush that smells beautiful and flowery is a pile of poop that helps it grow...remember that


WOW, thanks for this -- a more detailed and substantive response and attempted defense of UberFool than I have ever seen. It is still full of BS, but detailed BS nonetheless 

My favorite part: "We can't force you to do anything you're uncomfortable with nor would we ever. Bottom line is, it's your call."

Darn tootin'!!!!


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## DCUberXGrrrl

andaas said:


> Bart McCoy - While I do grasp how Pool is supposed to pay out, if you look at the examples shown in the link at the beginning of this thread, even *those* numbers don't work out like you have explained it.
> 
> If passenger #1 fare is $7.21, and passenger #2 fare is $7.61. How is the driver's earned gross fare only $4.29? The gross fare should be AT LEAST $7.61.
> 
> The driver's net earnings for this ride were $4.29 - 1.55 (booking fee) - 1.07 (commission) = $3.22.
> 
> That just doesn't work in any logical sense.
> 
> In this case, Uber took another full share of the drivers net earnings ($3.33) for themselves, on top of the double fare they earned from the two passengers. Uber's total take for this ride was $11.60, compared to the drivers $3.22.


Cripes, this is totally insane!!! Requiring driver to do Fool trips is like demanding we actually pay to give rides, because I would be losing money per trip at those rate (after expenses). Boo to that!


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## Bart McCoy

andaas said:


> Bart McCoy - While I do grasp how Pool is supposed to pay out, if you look at the examples shown in the link at the beginning of this thread, even *those* numbers don't work out like you have explained it.
> 
> If passenger #1 fare is $7.21, and passenger #2 fare is $7.61. How is the driver's earned gross fare only $4.29? The gross fare should be AT LEAST $7.61.
> .


Except it does work out like I explained it. See the problem in your statement is "passenger fare...." If you grasp how pool is supposed to be paid out, then you actually would know that what the pax actually pays("passenger fare"), has *NOTHING* to do with what or how you get paid for doing pool. You get paid only and soley by how many miles you drive, and how long (minutes) you drive. No matter if you picked up 1 pax, or 18 pax in a long pool ride.

If you keep using "passenger fare" (what the pax pays) as a reference, then of course it'll never add up right in your mind. Because Uber doesn't pay you based off of what the pax pays


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## JSM0713

For me, this whole Pool Ride program made no sense as a driver, and every sense for Uber. I will state as I have at every opportunity that unless Pool benefits me, I am not participating. If they want to throw me out of their system, so be it. I do not waste my time with Pool ride requests, and the only time I do accept them is if business is slow.
The one scenario not discussed in this thread..... You accept a pool ride from point A to point B. Nowhere in that ride do you get a 2nd ping. In effect, you got screwed as no 2nd rider paid for the discounted subsidy that you lost from ride 1. I find that 50% of my pool rides were like that and I refused to play that game anymore. Finally, with multiple pool rides, you've in effect turned yourself into a glorified bus driver.


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## JimS

Bart McCoy said:


> But Uber doesn't pay you based off of what the pax pays


Except they are SUPPOSED to. The passengers pay the DRIVER. Uber gets a commission from those fares. LOOK at your tax statement! You are taxed for the income of what ALL POOL PARTIES pay, yet you only net a small portion of it.


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## Bart McCoy

JSM0713 said:


> For me, this whole Pool Ride program made no sense as a driver, and every sense for Uber. I will state as I have at every opportunity that unless Pool benefits me, I am not participating. If they want to throw me out of their system, so be it. I do not waste my time with Pool ride requests, and the only time I do accept them is if business is slow.
> The one scenario not discussed in this thread..... You accept a pool ride from point A to point B. Nowhere in that ride do you get a 2nd ping. In effect, you got screwed as no 2nd rider paid for the discounted subsidy that you lost from ride 1. I find that 50% of my pool rides were like that and I refused to play that game anymore. Finally, with multiple pool rides, you've in effect turned yourself into a glorified bus driver.


Yes, if folks don't like pool, just don't accept them (and hope Uber never deactivates you for it).
Yes, if you take a pool ride, and you don't get a match,you've pretty much done a UberX ride for discounted subsidy. sucks. I know.

Uber SHOULD change it to an UberX ride if no match. But they don't. And we can't force them to.

You say you will only do pool if it benfits you. Well, you don't know really until you accept and actually do the trip. As mentioned, the only way UberPool is really benefitial or more profitable than UberX is if each pax you pick up is going a good distance away from each other. My best pool was pickup up first pax, driving 1 mile to get the 2nd pax, but 1st pax when 8 miles,and after drop off, I continued on for another 12 miles into VIRGINIA. It was also at a 2.0 surge. So in that case I got paid for 17miles. If both pax ended up going to same neighborhood, I would have only gotten paid for 9 miles (the 1 mile out the way and the 8 mile trip to the neighborhood). But again, you won't know if its a good pool ride, until you do it. The chances of you having a "great" pool ride like I mentioned, are slim. The longest pool ride Uber told us happened in our market was a 1hr 15min long pool, where he picked up 4 diff pax.


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## sicky

Bart McCoy said:


> What is there to be surprised about? Did drivers really think they would get paid double the fare (1 for each different pax party) for pool rides? NO. And uber tells you this upfront,so no surprise.
> 
> When you do a pool ride, there's no secret as to how and how much you get paid. They clearly have a pool rate schedule for every market. No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


UberPool is not in my market yet, but I had assumed that drivers keep their cut (75-80%) of the total fares from each rider after SRF. If the driver is only getting 75-80% of the reduced UberPool mileage rate, then this is just another instance of having our pay reduced.

Why is it that every action Uber takes effectively hurts its drivers? I understand them trying to make more money for themselves, but actively trying to anger their drivers makes no sense.


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## Bart McCoy

JimS said:


> Except they are SUPPOSED to. The passengers pay the DRIVER. Uber gets a commission from those fares. LOOK at your tax statement! You are taxed for the income of what ALL POOL PARTIES pay, yet you only net a small portion of it.


Right, so wheres the easy lawsuit?

Lets say you did one pool ride all year. When Uber sends you the 1099, you telling me they are saying they paid you the full amount all the pax paid on that trip? or are they sending you the amount they paid you according to their pool fee schedule?

Show me that Uber is/are/has done this. Clearly saying they paid you money you didn't receive is wrong. But anybody who knows how to do taxes would know how to adjust this on their taxes....

I mean Uber always includes in the "amount paid to you" all the hundreds of dollars of safe riders/booking fees. I mean you guys aren't paying taxing on that, yall are deducting that even though Uber said you made that money.......right?


----------



## sicky

UberPartnerDennis said:


> We are aware that the _per trip_ amount may be lower for partners but their _hourly amount_ has raised in every city POOL has been established in.


When they say "hourly amount" they are speaking about gross fares. Of course the gross fares are higher, but drivers are keeping an even smaller percentage than before. I would bet that the drivers net hourly income drops and Uber's take soars.


----------



## JimS

Bart McCoy said:


> Yes, if you take a pool ride, and you don't get a match,you've pretty much done a UberX ride for discounted subsidy. sucks. I know.


I know I read in the Atlanta area, drivers were supposed to get paid X regardless of whether they were matched or not.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Bart McCoy said:


> Right, so wheres the easy lawsuit?
> 
> Lets say you did one pool ride all year. When Uber sends you the 1099, you telling me they are saying they paid you the full amount all the pax paid on that trip? or are they sending you the amount they paid you according to their pool fee schedule?
> 
> Show me that Uber is/are/has done this. Clearly saying they paid you money you didn't receive is wrong. But anybody who knows how to do taxes would know how to adjust this on their taxes....
> 
> I mean Uber always includes in the "amount paid to you" all the hundreds of dollars of safe riders/booking fees. I mean you guys aren't paying taxing on that, yall are deducting that even though Uber said you made that money.......right?


I believe that if there is substantial evidence to paint this picture, then yes, they will be toast. And if Uberpool has a DIFFERENT commission schedule for the use of their service, then each driver should be able to opt out. Period. 
And yes,mthey market their connection platform as based on individual rider to driver lead, even in the Pool marketing to drivers. The whole point of a driver accepting the hassles associated with out of the way pick ups and turning their vehicle into a personalized bus was marketed that they would benefit from the headaches associated. They have overstepped their bounds in several ways here, and eventually no amount of lawyerspeak can rationalize this audacity.

They threw in all those bonuses and crap last week to con drivers into taking all rides, and suckering in out of towners, and then this article shows up, effectively shining light on the reason for the psychological and financial manipulation of drivers. The amount of money Uber makes for themselves FAR surpasses what they are paying out with those incentives.

I shouldn't be shocked at the lengths they will go to to benefit themselves off the assets of their drivers, but I am.

Hopefully someone really gets ahold of this and they at least have to stop forcing/coercing pool rides or they allow drivers to opt out.


----------



## Friendly Jack

Bart McCoy said:


> Its similar to a bus driver. How odd would it be if a bus driver asked to receive the fares for all 82 of the passengers hes carrying....


Bart, it is not similar to a bus driver. The difference is that the bus driver is an employee and is paid many times the fare of any single passenger. A better point for you to consider, perhaps, is that the bus driver does not need to pick up any passsengers (granted, on a slow day or midnight shift) and will still earn a nice paycheck. More importantly, the vast majority of active Uber drivers did not sign up with Uber to have our vehicles abused as "buses" (which they somewhat are with Pool), nor do we appreciate the terms of our driver service changed without our prior consent.

Yet, contrary to the Uber CSR statement seen in this thread, most drivers are being coerced into accepting Pool requests because they fear Uber's threat to deactivate them for poor acceptance rate. I accept your rationale and defense of the UberPool pay structure as you outlined it to be, but with all things considered I believe that Uber, you, and any other logical thinker knows that even in the best of circumstances it will be impossible for a driver to consistently earn more with UberPool. Uber can earn more (versus all UberX), but not a driver, and as a means of increasing their profits this is why they are pushing Pool so hard. I do not disapprove of their motives, only of their associated web of deceit toward their driver "partners". In particular, in almost every market Pool has been introduced with a small increase in the Pool mileage rate along with a much larger decrease in the per minute rate and base fare. Why do you think this is? You think maybe to deceive those who didn't think it through? If Pool is such a great money making opportunity then why couldn't Uber have left the rates the same as UberX? Wouldn't we all then have made more money, and the riders still saved money with their sharing? As for me, I will continue to disregard all Pool pings and will gladly leave my share to you if you care to accept them.


----------



## UberPartnerDennis

Friendly Jack said:


> Bart, it is not similar to a bus driver. The difference is that the bus driver is an employee and is paid many times the fare of any single passenger. A better point for you to consider, perhaps, is that the bus driver does not need to pick up any passsengers (granted, on a slow day or midnight shift) and will still earn a nice paycheck. More importantly, the vast majority of active Uber drivers did not sign up with Uber to have our vehicles abused as "buses" (which they somewhat are with Pool), nor do we appreciate the terms of our driver service changed without our prior consent.
> 
> Yet, contrary to the Uber CSR statement seen in this thread, most drivers are being coerced into accepting Pool requests because they fear Uber's threat to deactivate them for poor acceptance rate. I accept your rationale and defense of the UberPool pay structure as you outlined it to be, but with all things considered I believe that Uber, you, and any other logical thinker knows that even in the best of circumstances it will be impossible for a driver to consistently earn more with UberPool. Uber can earn more (versus all UberX), but not a driver, and as a means of increasing their profits this is why they are pushing Pool so hard. I do not disapprove of their motives, only of their associated web of deceit toward their driver "partners". In particular, in almost every market Pool has been introduced with a small increase in the Pool mileage rate along with a much larger decrease in the per minute rate and base fare. Why do you think this is? You think maybe to deceive those who didn't think it through? If Pool is such a great money making opportunity then why couldn't Uber have left the rates the same as UberX? Wouldn't we all then have made more money, and the riders still saved money with their sharing? As for me, I will continue to disregard all Pool pings and will gladly leave my share to you if you care to accept them.


What kills me in the Supervisors response to me is that he said they dont make money unless we do...which is a half true statement...they STILL make their booking fee + 25% commission...PER RIDE, not overall...again screwber is making their money but we are not

As a side note .. and correct me if I am wrong here .... Lyft will eat some of their money if we only get one Line ride .... they state as much on their site anyway last time I checked...so we are always guaranteed at least what we would have made at their expense on regular lyft


----------



## andaas

Bart McCoy said:


> Except it does work out like I explained it. See the problem in your statement is "passenger fare...." If you grasp how pool is supposed to be paid out, then you actually would know that what the pax actually pays("passenger fare"), has *NOTHING* to do with what or how you get paid for doing pool. You get paid only and soley by how many miles you drive, and how long (minutes) you drive. No matter if you picked up 1 pax, or 18 pax in a long pool ride.
> 
> If you keep using "passenger fare" (what the pax pays) as a reference, then of course it'll never add up right in your mind. Because Uber doesn't pay you based off of what the pax pays


Alright, so here's my calculation of the actual trip based on the given UberX rates for San Francisco (note: Pool rates are not listed on Uber's website for some reason - https://www.uber.com/cities/san-francisco - so it's not possible to calculate a Pool fare for comparison).

$5.29 :: 4.6 miles @ $1.15 mile
$3.30 :: 15 minutes at $0.22 minute (Google estimates trip at 11 minutes, I added 4 minutes given there was likely a second pickup/delay, etc.)

So just for time and mileage, the driver *should* have gross earnings of $8.59. This doesn't include the base fare for SFO of $2.00. I'm unsure if Pool uses this or not.

Time and mileage based on my recreation of the trip from the driver trip history map in the post, you can view that estimate here (I actually shorted this by .25 to .33 mile) - https://goo.gl/EFQeKf

The trip shown does not work no matter how I look at it. Hopefully you have an explanation about how that works, I'm all ears!

*edit*
I found the actual Pool rates (had to use the passenger app)...
$1.75 :: base fare
$3.45 :: 4.6 miles @ $0.75 mile
$1.50 :: 15 minutes @ $0.10 minute

$6.70 :: total gross fare before booking fee that would be applicable to commission

** This is fairly accurate to the total fares shown for the driver at the linked article, which totaled $6.49 before commission, my previous post did not include the 2nd passenger ride portion in error - I've never done Pool since we don't have it here **

Bart McCoy - Did your work for you.


----------



## secretadmirer

That comment was very touching Bart. You're love for uber really shines with all your posts.


----------



## SafeT

You have to give Uber credit for thinking this scam up. They would get paid at a rate of $1 per mile per rider (example) while the driver is doing the work and getting paid at a rate of $1 per mile for ALL of the riders. How many can UberFool take at one time? If it can take 4 people then Uber would be getting paid at a 4 to 1 ratio for 4 riders in the car. What if they did that to XL? Uber would get paid at a rate of 6 to 1.


----------



## Friendly Jack

Bart McCoy said:


> My best pool was pickup up first pax, driving 1 mile to get the 2nd pax, but 1st pax when 8 miles,and after drop off, I continued on for another 12 miles into VIRGINIA. So in that case I got paid for 17miles. If both pax ended up going to same neighborhood, I would have only gotten paid for 9 miles (the 1 mile out the way and the 8 mile trip to the neighborhood).


So, Bart, when you describe your "best pool" and sound rather cheerful about it, let me first ask you to consider how much you would have gotten paid at UberX rates (versus Pool rates) if you had only gotten the second passenger's ride, and also to consider the additional ride opportunity time (maybe an even better ride than the second rider?) and how much you would have gotten paid at UberX rates (versus Pool rates) if you had only gotten the first passenger's ride. But that's another discussion.

You say that "If both pax ended up going to same neighborhood, I would have only gotten paid for 9 miles (the 1 mile out the way and the 8 mile trip to the neighborhood)". Using Chicago UberX rates of 1.70 base/.90/.20 versus Pool rates of 1.20/.95/.12 and assuming an average 20 MPH driving in the city (3 minutes per mile, very optimistic), you would have come out ahead -- and with much less effort and vehicle abuse -- driving the first passenger only, at UberX rates, rather than the two together at Pool rates: UberX $1.70 + (8 miles * .90) + (24 min * .20) = $13.70 versus Pool $1.20 + (9 * .95) + (27 min * .12) = $12.99. I realize that it was your point to explain the UberPool rates, not defend them, but your posts seemed to be inclined toward the defensive side. In my opinion, it is impossible for a driver to ever have a "best pool" (only a "least worse") because as a driver we always lose doing Pool, either directly through the rate structure or indirectly through lost opportunity time. Uber never talks about the latter, only the "added rider" opportunity. But those added riders at lower rates simply take opportunity time away from us that we could be using to do standard UberX rides. Please think about joining those of us who are trying to increase overall driver opportunity by pushing back on Uber by refusing Pool requests. We all win when you do.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Friendly Jack said:


> So, Bart, when you describe your "best pool" and sound rather cheerful about it, let me first ask you to consider how much you would have gotten paid at UberX rates (versus Pool rates) if you had only gotten the second passenger's ride, and also to consider the additional ride opportunity time (maybe an even better ride than the second rider?) and how much you would have gotten paid at UberX rates (versus Pool rates) if you had only gotten the first passenger's ride. But that's another discussion.
> 
> You say that "If both pax ended up going to same neighborhood, I would have only gotten paid for 9 miles (the 1 mile out the way and the 8 mile trip to the neighborhood)". Using Chicago UberX rates of 1.70 base/.90/.20 versus Pool rates of 1.20/.95/.12 and assuming an average 20 MPH driving in the city (3 minutes per mile, very optimistic), you would have come out ahead -- and with much less effort and vehicle abuse -- driving the first passenger only, at UberX rates, rather than the two together at Pool rates: UberX $1.70 + (8 miles * .90) + (24 min * .20) = $13.70 versus Pool $1.20 + (9 * .95) + (27 min * .12) = $12.99. I realize that it was your point to explain the UberPool rates, not defend them, but your posts seemed to be inclined toward the defensive side. In my opinion, it is impossible for a driver to ever have a "best pool" (only a "least worse") because as a driver we always lose doing Pool, either directly through the rate structure or indirectly through lost opportunity time. Uber never talks about the latter, only the "added rider" opportunity. But those added riders at lower rates simply take opportunity time away from us that we could be using to do standard UberX rides. Please think about joining those of us who are trying to increase overall driver opportunity by pushing back on Uber by refusing Pool requests. We all win when you do.


You have to remember, if it was an UberX, you would NOT be picking up a 2nd rider. So you can't be adding up 2 fares. UberX is only 1 party of pax. On a pool, the 2nd person you pick up only happens because it's a pool. At the end of an UberX ride you are in a different area. You have to wait again before you can get a 2nd pax. That's what the CSR means by pools being efficient :there's no wait time with no pax between the first pax and matched ride pax

*****Edit
I read your post wrong. My answer is:I never defended an unmatched pool ride. You always lose. I already admitted and agreed that an unmatched pool is UberX reduced rate. You can only have best pool with matched ride and pax have miles between their drop off and pick up points


----------



## KMANDERSON

chi1cabby said:


> *Is Uber Skimming off the top?
> https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.mpme01xge*


Thank god uber pool not here in dallas


----------



## UberPartnerDennis

KMANDERSON said:


> Thank god uber pool not here in dallas


yet


----------



## andaas

KMANDERSON said:


> Thank god uber pool not here in dallas


It'll be here in no time, it's obviously a huge cash cow (for Uber).


----------



## Manotas

You people don't get it... Uber cares about the partners, accepting a second rider makes (yU_ber) more money $$$!


----------



## KMANDERSON

andaas said:


> It'll be here in no time, it's obviously a huge cash cow (for Uber).


Well my acceptance rates really going to bad then


----------



## andaas

For what it's worth, I agree with chi1cabby ... UberPool will lead to some lawsuits. The passengers believe they are paying the driver(s) the amount they pay Uber (with a fair commission deducted). That Uber can pocket 100% of the money earned during any "Pooled" ride time from the 2nd and any subsequent rider is highly misleading to the passengers.

The "technology" does not warrant this extra earning on Uber's part - all earnings should be passed to the driver minus standard commission rates and booking fees.


----------



## KMANDERSON

andaas said:


> It'll be here in no time, it's obviously a huge cash cow (for Uber).


I don't think it will popular here.This is not a rideshare state like California


----------



## andaas

KMANDERSON said:


> I don't think it will popular here.This is not a rideshare state like California


Uber is marketing to the DART crowd, Pool will do just fine here, lol.


----------



## KMANDERSON

andaas said:


> For what it's worth, I agree with chi1cabby ... UberPool will lead to some lawsuits. The passengers believe they are paying the driver(s) the amount they pay Uber (with a fair commission deducted). That Uber can pocket 100% of the money earned during any "Pooled" ride time from the 2nd and any subsequent rider is highly misleading to the passengers.
> 
> The "technology" does not warrant this extra earning on Uber's part - all earnings should be passed to the driver minus standard commission rates and booking fees.


I can't wait to find out what the conclusion of the employee vs independent contractor lawsuit will be.I will be following that like the oj trial


----------



## Lord Summerisle

Bart McCoy said:


> You have to remember, if it was an UberX, you would NOT be picking up a 2nd rider. So you can't be adding up 2 fares. UberX is only 1 party of pax. On a pool, the 2nd person you pick up only happens because it's a pool. At the end of an UberX ride you are in a different area. You have to wait again before you can get a 2nd pax. That's what the CSR means by pools being efficient :there's no wait time with no pax between the first pax and matched ride pax
> 
> *****Edit
> I read your post wrong. My answer is:I never defended an unmatched pool ride. You always lose. I already admitted and agreed that an unmatched pool is UberX reduced rate. You can only have best pool with matched ride and pax have miles between their drop off and pick up points


'Best pool'? What's that? It's like saying 'best cancer.'


----------



## Bart McCoy

andaas said:


> For what it's worth, I agree with chi1cabby ... UberPool will lead to some lawsuits. The passengers believe they are paying the driver(s) the amount they pay Uber (with a fair commission deducted). That Uber can pocket 100% of the money earned during any "Pooled" ride time from the 2nd and any subsequent rider is highly misleading to the passengers.
> 
> The "technology" does not warrant this extra earning on Uber's part - all earnings should be passed to the driver minus standard commission rates and booking fees.


Why in the world would pax care? They are paying less than the already cheap UberX rates, they don't care where the excess money goes. Do you really think pax care about drivers getting paid properly? Come on now....


----------



## Bart McCoy

Lord Summerisle said:


> 'Best pool'? What's that? It's like saying 'best cancer.'


So if you did 20 pool trips,then I asked what your best one was. You telling me you would be stuck?


----------



## DriverX

I'm glad pool isn't in my market, but if it were here's how I would beat it:

Simply drive the longest most circuitous route possible to pick up your pool pax. F'em its a pool they paid a flat rate so might as well stack those miles while you're on the clock.

Use Ubers unfair policies against them. Only log on for over 2x surge. set the price you control the supply!


----------



## Lord Summerisle

Bart McCoy said:


> So if you did 20 pool trips,then I asked what your best one was. You telling me you would be stuck?
> 
> View attachment 33179


I would be, yes. Because if you're talking about which ride made the most money, you're still making less than you SHOULD, regardless of the rate per mile, etc, it's an issue of ethics. What if you said to a painter, I want you to paint these two houses but I'm only going to pay you for one because they're right next door to each other. He'd tell you to eff off which is what we should be saying to Uber too.


----------



## andaas

Bart McCoy said:


> Why in the world would pax care? They are paying less than the already cheap UberX rates, they don't care where the excess money goes. Do you really think pax care about drivers getting paid properly? Come on now....


I would hope that you would know better than to speak in absolutes when referring to any group of people. While it may not be a majority of passengers, there WILL be passengers who, when they learn of how this works, will not find it acceptable. Perhaps not because the driver wasn't properly compensated, but because the *passenger* was overcharged for the services rendered.

Whether these lawsuits are based on the grounds of the drivers being under-compensated, or passengers being over-charged, the lawsuits will come to light once the issues behind how UberPool charges are calculated, charged, and extra money just keeps falling into Uber's pockets.


----------



## Bart McCoy

andaas said:


> I would hope that you would know better than to speak in absolutes when referring to any group of people. While it may not be a majority of passengers, there WILL be passengers who, when they learn of how this works, will not find it acceptable. Perhaps not because the driver wasn't properly compensated, but because the *passenger* was overcharged for the services rendered.
> .


Oh boy, of course some pax may care,smh. Basically you're saying anything is possible. In not way did I mean 100% of all pax, but surely no where near a majority amount. Lets just strike this whole sub topic from the convo, the chances are slim to none that pax will complain/revolt about the way drivers are paid on a pool ride. A pax contract is with the driver, which in turn has NOTHING to do with whatever contracts he has with other pax (aka additional pool riders).

And overpaaid? That's laughable. Uber touts 50% cheaper than uberX in my market. So how da heck can they be overcharged when they paying 3 bucks for a long ride? smh


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

chi1cabby said:


> *Is Uber Skimming off the top?
> https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.mpme01xge*


POST # 1/chi1cabby : Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for this
Hyperlinked Medium.com Article that
SHOULD LAY BARE THE "ECONOMIC
TERRORISM" that is #[F]Uber's Modus
Operandi.
If I may, a "#[F]UberFool" YouTUBE from
Ziggy [courtesy of 
Jay Dean] seems 
Appropriate AND Germane:

https://uberpeople.net/posts/792915

MentoringBison: Keeping. It. 100%. REAL!


----------



## chi1cabby

I didn't realize that hackajar, the Driver who wrote the medium piece is a Forum Member.

Thank you hackajar for doing some legwork on what pax are paying on matched UberPool rides.


----------



## Just_in

Bart McCoy said:


> Oh boy, of course some pax may care,smh. Basically you're saying anything is possible. In not way did I mean 100% of all pax, but surely no where near a majority amount. Lets just strike this whole sub topic from the convo, the chances are slim to none that pax will complain/revolt about the way drivers are paid on a pool ride. A pax contract is with the driver, which in turn has NOTHING to do with whatever contracts he has with other pax (aka additional pool riders).
> 
> And overpaaid? That's laughable. Uber touts 50% cheaper than uberX in my market. So how da heck can they be overcharged when they paying 3 bucks for a long ride? smh


Is this something new...A PAX contract is with the driver? Does the driver make the PAX sign a contract before they step into the Car/Cab?


----------



## andaas

Bart McCoy said:


> Oh boy, of course some pax may care,smh. Basically you're saying anything is possible. In not way did I mean 100% of all pax, but surely no where near a majority amount. Lets just strike this whole sub topic from the convo, the chances are slim to none that pax will complain/revolt about the way drivers are paid on a pool ride. A pax contract is with the driver, which in turn has NOTHING to do with whatever contracts he has with other pax (aka additional pool riders).
> 
> And overpaaid? That's laughable. Uber touts 50% cheaper than uberX in my market. So how da heck can they be overcharged when they paying 3 bucks for a long ride? smh


Again, using the original linked example, 2 passengers each paid between $7.21 - $7.61 for a Pooled ride. This is a fair rate for the services provided, and "cheaper than X" as you say. Each passenger, however, likely believes that the driver earned 80% of what they paid (passengers don't have a clue about SRF/booking fee and don't care) - so in the eyes of these passengers, the driver has earned $5.77 and $6.09, NET (or $4.22 and $4.54 factoring booking fee). This driver is walking away with $4.87 net.

Yes, there are going to be passengers, although a very small minority, who are going to take offense to Uber keeping that extra $3.88, which was, rightfully, earned by the driver for his services. What did Uber do in this situation? The Pool system *may* warrant an additional driver surcharge for pairing the ride, say, a $1 "Pooled ride fee", that the driver should pay from the total. The rest of that $3.88 should go directly to the driver.

Keep in mind, Uber *still* collects their 20% commission on the fare. They are just pocketing money here.


----------



## dptchamp

Its like hi second passenger for Uberpool how much you paying $7.61 huh. Well I'm not going to see a penny of that thanks for using Uberpool.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Just_in said:


> Is this something new...A PAX contract is with the driver? Does the driver make the PAX sign a contract before they step into the Car/Cab?


read the fine print in the rider app, smh


----------



## dptchamp

Bart McCoy said base 1.00 , .90 mile , .12 min . If you dropped off at the mall you just bought some free time at mall before you end trip and get paid .12 a min or drive around the parking lot ,it just sucks because you should want to end ride and get another run.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

ABC123DEF said:


> Uber loves you and will do everything to make sure that there is always a trustworthy relationship with drivers at all times. Partner earnings are at the forefront of everything they do. Trust them!


POST # 2/ABC123DEF : I HOPE that You
are Aware that Your
Anti#[F]Uber, Caustic Wit has reached
[by virtue of "Straight Man" delivery]
beyond SATIRE to the point where,
taken OUT OF CONTEXT, could be Con-
fused with U.T.PR "Shillery", worthy of an Actual #AntiPersonnel LLC Employees' Handbook!

Would You consider Utilizing a Warning
like: * Parody * Post * or equivalent on
The Really Good Stuff ?


----------



## Just_in

Bart McCoy said:


> read the fine print in the rider app, smh


Yeah sure whatever. The PAX pays Uber. Driver has no control over how much to charge...Uber pays driver after taking percentage.


----------



## DriverX

Bart McCoy said:


> Oh boy, of course some pax may care,smh. Basically you're saying anything is possible. In not way did I mean 100% of all pax, but surely no where near a majority amount. Lets just strike this whole sub topic from the convo, the chances are slim to none that pax will complain/revolt about the way drivers are paid on a pool ride. A pax contract is with the driver, which in turn has NOTHING to do with whatever contracts he has with other pax (aka additional pool riders).
> 
> And overpaaid? That's laughable. Uber touts 50% cheaper than uberX in my market. So how da heck can they be overcharged when they paying 3 bucks for a long ride? smh


What Bart fails to recognize is that the more pool rides taken the less X rides for other drivers and the less potential for surge rates. If you pick a pax up mid trip and only add a half mile to your fare you have removed that fare from the market depriving another driver a fare and easing demand which prevents the surge. So effectively these rides are a negative sum expense. The extra 85 cents the driver made off the pool pax he loses the next time he has to wait an hour to get a ride at no surge.

Uber pool was designed to benefit uber first the pax second and cost the driver, as all of their products are designed.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

SafeT said:


> If this is true, it's no wonder they are pushing UberFool so hard. Hopefully more Pool drivers will chime in.


POST # 7/SafeT : WHY.....do you think
I nicknamed
"Eddie Munster's Hairline"
.................The #Pickpocket $Billionaire" ?


----------



## dptchamp

Uber is making pax pay UberX flat rates for Uberpool giving te driver less and not passing on the savings to pax


----------



## BillyGoat

It's time we expand the scope of this Uber scandal and start raising rider awareness as well as collect additional examples/evidence for possible future litigation.
Here's a draft notice I've put together to get some constructive input on. Once it's finalized, I'll make a file available in pdf format for all to download and post on the back of your vehicle's headrests.


----------



## hackajar

Read the whole article, under "Uber contracts for partners" heading, this is the ONLY part of all the contract paperwork that mentions UberPOOL service. It shows the miles and min rates for POOL. It does NOT state, "for the duration of the POOL as it is active". It states what we get as drivers for doing the rides, not the isolated POOL that those rides are operated under. However, based on my calculations, Uber is only paying out the POOL, regardless of pax, based on that rate and nothing else. This means that it is possible to get LESS than what one single pax paid (in this case $0.71 less then cheapest ride paid for by two pax in POOL).

The only time this might benefit a drivers is as follows, "Pax A pickup -> Pax B pickup -> Pax A drop off -> Pax C pickup -> Pax B dropoff -> Pax D Pickup -> Pax C dropoff, Etc...". If you maintain a long string of POOL rides that are never ending, you are basically racking up POOL rate nonstop and can be "earning" with zero gaps. The problem, as mentioned in posts earlier, is a typical POOL is 1) "Pickup pax A -> Pickup Pax B -> Drop both at SFO"; 2) Single pax in Bayview going to Lake Merced. You just short circuited any incentive a partner has to do agree to POOL trips. In my experience I have had maybe 4 POOL trips that "benefited" me, out of the 100 or so that I have done so far.

BONUS RESEARCH: Power Driver only counts the collective POOL as one ride. So when you look at your numbers like, "I did 103 rides, but the system says I only had 93 qualifying trips", it is because 1) "No show" does not count 2) All trips within a POOL count as one.


----------



## GILD

uber is skimming for sure on POOL. uber charges a extra $1 per rider, and pays ZERO of the rider fee to driver.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

TwoFiddyMile said:


> My bet is the lost pants reveals a little tiny dinky.


POST # 13/TwoFiddyMile: I understand
that #{T}Ruthless Leader
utilizes the latest in Electron Microscopo-
graphy to Assist him in Retaining his
Whirl Champeen'ship in the Frenzied
Wii "Onanist" Sessions he wins Daily!


----------



## yucklyftline

New to lyft. About a week so far. I had 2 pax who both paid $6 each. Lyft paid me 7.

How come this info is just coming to light? Why haven't you drivers picked up on this when lyft line and uber pool were first introduced? It's crazy that this post is now 4 pages long and you're all acting shocked.

Do your homework and I have to add that until drivers unify in a relatively unanimous fashion, so as to not to spontaneously be deactivated when uber/lyft finds out who you are, nothing will happen. We can all wait here and cross our fingers for trials and lawsuits to sort themselves out while these companies continue to trounce us. Where is the Ceasar Chavez of ridesharing companies?

I'm truly discouraged not only at these business practices, but that this hasn't been a bigger issue months ago.

-my first post/rant


----------



## andaas

fcklyftline - in my case, I am in the Dallas area. We don't have UberPool or LyftLine here, just the regular service one at a time modes, so I haven't really paid much attention until this thread came around.

As far as I know, there *have* been posts and shorter discussions on this previously; but it is not always easy/possible to get passenger payment information provided after a ride.


----------



## yucklyftline

andaas said:


> fcklyftline - in my case, I am in the Dallas area. We don't have UberPool or LyftLine here, just the regular service one at a time modes, so I haven't really paid much attention until this thread came around.
> 
> As far as I know, there *have* been posts and shorter discussions on this previously; but it is not always easy/possible to get passenger payment information provided after a ride.


It's unbelievable that these 2 companies are getting away with this.

I went through my driving history just now. On Monday, 8 out of 20 rides were LyftLine. But 21 people were transported in only 8 of those line rides. And based on the articles commission, lyft keeps 60-90% of the commission? Pax win, lyft/uber wins, drivers lose- bottom line


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Drive777 said:


> Good point. If Uber operated the way Bart described, they should issue 1099-MISC's. That way they could charge the pax whatever they want, and pay the driver whatever they want according to a set fee schedule.
> 
> But to avoid appearances of being a transportation company, or in any way being connected with its partners, Uber has opted to define itself as nothing but a "payment processor" of which the entire amount paid by passengers is considered the driver's income. From this gross amount, Uber takes its commission and fees. That won't work on UberPool however, because the driver fee schedule, which is a reflection of gross amounts processed through the payment processor (Uber) cannot be specifically defined. It is variable based on the number of pool rides a driver picks up between first point A and final point Z.
> 
> Uber wants to have it both ways. Control the driver's pay and thoroughly disconnect it from the value of the service paid by riders, but then tell the driver his income consists 100% of what the rider pays, subject to a set rate and minus certain fees agreed upon in a fee schedule.
> 
> This is doublespeak at its finest.


POST # 20/DRIVE 777 : I agreed with every word of
Post # 20 except the Last. #[F]UberSpeak
DESERVES a Negative Modifier such as:
"This is DoubleSpeak at its....."
☆ Most Misleading
☆ Dastardly
☆ Orwellian Worst
☆ Most Deceitful
☆ Most Duplicitous

Please, don't give The Kakanicky a"Hook"
["finest"] that he can "Hang his Hat On".

Mentoring Bison: HELL: Too good for TCK.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

DCUberXGrrrl said:


> Hey, ho! Hey ho! UberFool has got to go!!! Drive for Uber and be your own boss - LOL!
> 
> View attachment 33147


POST # 24/DCUberXGrrrl : With regard
to Your Signature
Line, ".......Life is but ...A...Dream."


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

UberPartnerDennis said:


> Interesting this came up...I have been involved in a email chain with Uber regarding pool...I just got a response from a supervisor ... I posted it over in the pay forum but will post it here and delete that thread....here is what Uber said:
> 
> Hello ******,
> 
> My name is Chase and I'll be stepping in here for Toya.
> 
> I read your emails and understand where you're coming from so, what I'd like to do, is just give you some input from our side of things.
> 
> I know you're frustrated with POOL but one thing I'd like you to consider is this: It works. Now, you may not have first hand experience with this seeing what you wrote in about, but it does. We are aware that the _per trip_ amount may be lower for partners but their _hourly amount_ has raised in every city POOL has been established in.
> 
> The reason for this is that accepting and completing uberPOOL trips increases partners' overall efficiency. For instance an uberX trip that goes from A to B may be around $10 and might take you 20 mins, let's say. Now, that that same trip on POOL, could be about $7 as a very loose example. Again, not an exact amount, just an example with round numbers. If that rider requests a POOL trip instead that means you then have the chance to match with someone else.
> 
> If this happens, you're already making more than the original X trip. You will be going a short distance out of your way, sometimes if at all, to pick someone up going the same direction or near the same destination. That second person could also be a $7 fare. What that means is that the same X trip, with just a little more effort, becomes a $14 fare instead of a $10 fare. You may even match with a third person and could turn it in to a $21 trip. This is just a basic example, obviously, but we do see an overall increase.
> 
> Of course all this is dependent on a lot of factors. I know you've had issues with the matches being too far out or you're having to backtrack to get to them and we own that. We know that the platform isn't perfect and we are constantly pushing to make sure it works the best it can. We also know that you may not always get a matched trip. That's not good either and it can be the most frustrating part, and not just for you. We want riders to hop on board and be taking POOL trips as much as possible. It's a cheap alternative for them and a money making one for you. It's literally a win-win situation for riders and partners.
> 
> What I'm asking of you is to believe in the product and stay patient with it. We know it works, we've seen it work and one thing to keep in mind is that we don't make money until you do. There is no point in us doing anything other than maximizing your profits and POOL is a phenomenal way to do that. We will keep pushing for riders to use it more and the more they do, the more benefits you'll see from it. If you believe in the product, the riders will too.
> 
> As for your concern about using your phone the law in California is for the use of a handsfree device when using your phone. Touching it is just fine. When a ping for the next trip hits, all you need to do it tap the screen to accept it. What you're doing to accept that trip is no different than what you'd do to turn on your AC or change the radio station. This isn't something I have heard of from a driver that has caused them to be ticketed. I used to live in LA and don't see this being an issue but, it's your car, it's your call. We can't force you to do anything you're uncomfortable with nor would we ever. Bottom line is, it's your call.
> 
> I'm not expecting this to answer all of your concerns about POOL but I _am_ hoping it's helped.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> *Chase,
> Uber | Community Support*
> help.uber.com
> 
> ****************
> 
> Below every rose bush that smells beautiful and flowery is a pile of poop that helps it grow...remember that


POST # 25/UberPartnerDennis: The
DECEITFUL Phrase with
only ONE WORD changed, in two place$:

HE SAID: "...a Win - Win situation..."
..TRUTH: "...a Lose - Lose situation..."

Mentoring Bison: #Economic Terrorism!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

DCUberXGrrrl said:


> WOW, thanks for this -- a more detailed and substantive response and attempted defense of UberFool than I have ever seen. It is still full of BS, but detailed BS nonetheless
> 
> My favorite part: "We can't force you to do anything you're uncomfortable with nor would we ever. Bottom line is, it's your call."
> 
> Darn tootin'!!!!


POST # 31/DCUberXGrrrl: ......What IS 
MISSING is the
END of the Sentence that "Chase" failed
to include:
"Bottom line, it's your call. If OUR Bot-
tom Line $uffer$ as a Re$ult, please ex-
pect to be Immediately Deactivated."


----------



## GILD

ok, this is how is see uberpool. uber TRICKS PAX into selecting pool. driver will make 50 cents less than x minimum. 
the only way to take a pool ride is this: it is less than 4 min away in real world, you dont leave to goto it for 1 min. you click ive arrived 1 min away from pickup. you wait 5 min after that click of ive arrived. cancel get $3.75. if pax comes out do run as you would, do not drive above speed limit and come to smooth slow stops. pool will pay you about same as x in mileage, but about half in time. If destination is 8 min away, make it take 10. DO not make it take 6. Again no pool 2nd riders ever. only take a pool less than 3-4 min away from where you are now!, otherwise always do not accept. You will waste your time and too much gas if they are as example 8 min away. as a matter of fact slow to each redlight and stop on all yellows. point is if its 3 min away and 8 min trip, this will be less than 15 min of your life. you may get paid at least $5 for it, thus 20 bucks an hour.
Horrible scenario pool is 11 min away, trip is 6 min, you drive fast with them in car, they linger to car slow, 20 to 30 min of your life, $4 you just dropped to 8-12 bucks an hour and your costs went way up. 

I hope this makes sense, as it works for me in pool town usa where uber has tricked 90% of uber riders into taking pool. NO stops on pool, NONE. If you need to stop, then i have to end trip there, period. if your quick, ill wait 1 min and you can re ping me for x ride only. or you drive off.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

sicky said:


> UberPool is not in my market yet, but I had assumed that drivers keep their cut (75-80%) of the total fares from each rider after SRF. If the driver is only getting 75-80% of the reduced UberPool mileage rate, then this is just another instance of having our pay reduced.
> 
> Why is it that every action Uber takes effectively hurts its drivers? I understand them trying to make more money for themselves, but actively trying to anger their drivers makes no sense.


POST # 37/sicky : Seeing as how Your
Recent Affiliation
has limited the Likelihood of having
seen me Answer This Question, I will
do so AGAIN.

In his Fevered Hypomanic Mind Travis
sees himself as a DemiGod endowed w/
Insights and "Genius" unique to him alone.
As Sydney Uber and I have Postulated
Previously, TCK sees himself as the Elec-
tronic Overlord/Antagonist "Big Brother"
from George Orwell's "1984". There are
TOO MANY parallels between the Novel
and #[F]UberReality to be Coincidental.

What's WORSE is that he has taken on a
Japanese Mindset where Everyone Else
[Gaijin] are seen as SubHuman and treat-
ed as such. That is why the POW's in the
Pacific were treated SO INHUMANELY.
Rather than submit to the Shame/Dis-
honor of Capture, thousands of Japanese
Troops committed the Ritual of Seppuku
instead. Because of this Uniquely Brutal
regimen of Torture and Starvation many
of the Greatest Generation saw Hiroshima
and Nagasaki as a Richly Deserved Come-
uppance.

Back to the Brainwashing that #[F]Uber
engages in ! In the Fastest Growing UPNF
Thread EVER [200+ Msgs./4 hrs.] in the
"Complaints" Forum, on 20 FEB '15, then
departing "Ex-CSR...with Equity" and
L.I.C. Queens "Finest" john djjjoe Excor-
iated the Readership with failing to wrap
their Tiny Minds around the Concept of
Drivers as "commodity"...Disposable and
Forgettable :
https://uberpeople.net/posts/187189

Be under NO DELUSIONS:
#[F]Uber is Evil...Perfecting Itself.


----------



## MattyMikey

You know it wouldn't be as insulting if Uber (and Lyft) since they're profiting off the income that driver does not see to not charge any commission on Pool/Line rides. But to make the kind of money they're making and still charging the commission on the drivers much smaller portion of the pie is completely bullsh!t.


----------



## hackajar

MattyMikey said:


> You know it wouldn't be as insulting if Uber (and Lyft) since they're profiting off the income that driver does not see to not charge any commission on Pool/Line rides. But to make the kind of money they're making and still charging the commission on the drivers much smaller portion of the pie is completely bullsh!t.


Bingo. My whole rant is basically, "Either skim on backend and dump rest on us, or charge commission, not both"


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

JaxUbermom said:


> I believe that if there is substantial evidence to paint this picture, then yes, they will be toast. And if Uberpool has a DIFFERENT commission schedule for the use of their service, then each driver should be able to opt out. Period.
> And yes,mthey market their connection platform as based on individual rider to driver lead, even in the Pool marketing to drivers. The whole point of a driver accepting the hassles associated with out of the way pick ups and turning their vehicle into a personalized bus was marketed that they would benefit from the headaches associated. They have overstepped their bounds in several ways here, and eventually no amount of lawyerspeak can rationalize this audacity.
> 
> They threw in all those bonuses and crap last week to con drivers into taking all rides, and suckering in out of towners, and then this article shows up, effectively shining light on the reason for the psychological and financial manipulation of drivers. The amount of money Uber makes for themselves FAR surpasses what they are paying out with those incentives.
> 
> I shouldn't be shocked at the lengths they will go to to benefit themselves off the assets of their drivers, but I am.
> 
> Hopefully someone really gets ahold of this and they at least have to stop forcing/coercing pool rides or they allow drivers to opt out.


POST # 41/JaxUbermom: It appears
that Recent #[F]Uber
"Strateeegery", ESPECIALLY as it relates
to #[F]UberFool, could be described as:

"If you can't DAZZLE'M w/Brilliance...
.....then BAFFLE'M with Bulls☆☆t !"

https://uberpeople.net/posts/792915


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

hackajar said:


> Bingo. My whole rant is basically, "Either skim on backend and dump rest on us, or charge commission, not both"


POST # 91/hackajar : As Perfectionists
of Evil, they
Clearly Following the Old Maxim:

"In for a Penny; in for a Pound!"


----------



## thehappytypist

Once again jumping in without reading the thread. What can I say, I'm lazy.

This is due to upfront pricing. When the rider chooses uberPOOL and enters their destination, they're presented with a price based on the distance and how likely they are to be matched. This isn't an estimate, it is what they WILL pay (matched or not) as long as their trip ends within 500m of the entered destination. The driver is paid based on the actual distance/time, rider is charged whatever the upfront price was. So if the upfront price is higher than the actual time/distance, the rider still pays it because that's what they agreed to. It's a way to get just a bit more money.


----------



## JaxUbermom

thehappytypist said:


> Once again jumping in without reading the thread. What can I say, I'm lazy.
> 
> This is due to upfront pricing. When the rider chooses uberPOOL and enters their destination, they're presented with a price based on the distance and how likely they are to be matched. This isn't an estimate, it is what they WILL pay (matched or not) as long as their trip ends within 500m of the entered destination. The driver is paid based on the actual distance/time, rider is charged whatever the upfront price was. So if the upfront price is higher than the actual time/distance, the rider still pays it because that's what they agreed to. It's a way to get just a bit more money.


And absolutely wrong for drivers.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

My only question is, why do X drivers fill these orders?


----------



## Tony Neo

Yeah my experience with pool has been bad so far. They pay way worse than Lyft line. The only time you should accept pool if you are under some kind of guarantee you need 90% acceptance rating or if the surge is above 2.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

andaas said:


> It'll be here in no time, it's obviously a huge cash cow (for Uber).


POST # 51/andaas : Your Assessment
cries [Moooos out?]
for the Twitterversian @Un buey [Steer]
as Notable AND Moderator observer 
will Attest.

Bison: Can I get a Mooouh. MOOOUH !?


----------



## JaxUbermom

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> My only question is, why do X drivers fill these orders?


Because they are essentially penalized by declining them, with hits to their acceptance and completion rates. They become ineligible for the bogus bonus offers, that so may other misguided drivers come out of the woodwork to attempt and attain, that has effectively decimated surge, so those drivers who do not play are effectively hurt on more than one front. They become forced, essentially to be unable to beat them, so have to join them, if they hope to maintain an income level.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

JaxUbermom said:


> Because they are essentially penalized by declining them, with hits to their acceptance and completion rates. They become ineligible for the bogus bonus offers, that so may other misguided drivers come out of the woodwork to attempt and attain, that has effectively decimated surge, so those drivers who do not play are effectively hurt on more than one front. They become forced, essentially to be unable to beat them, so have to join them, if they hope to maintain an income level.


Well, it was a rhetorical question. But nice feedback. Thanks!


----------



## JaxUbermom

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Well, it was a rhetorical question. But nice feedback. Thanks!


Lol, indeed. Sometimes on this board, I have no idea, but maybe a lurker will get the point?

Ps, bison lives DO matter.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

JaxUbermom said:


> Lol, indeed. Sometimes on this board, I have no idea, but maybe a lurker will get the point?
> 
> Ps, bison lives DO matter.


LOL, same here. And the Guber lords give the rack another crank and still they drive on.

I'm waiting for the email, "Valued partner, beginning today you will please accept this new rate schedule to remain active on our platforms. $.00/mile and $.00/minute. We know this might seem extreme to some, but really we are doing this for your own good. So that you can compete with the robot cars for "demand". 
Now don't fret, this new rate structure is just temporary. If it does not have the desired effect, we will then offer you an option to "bid" for riders so that you can remain active and achieve your ride "goals". We know competition to give rides will be tough, but we really believe, 'You can do it'. And remember to stock up on Mints And H2O. Now get your raggedy @ss back to work and quit wasting time reading email. Sincerely, Lord Emperor Sir @sshat du Dousheville (As my friends call me. You can call me Travie)".


----------



## LEAFdriver

thehappytypist said:


> ......When the rider chooses uberPOOL and enters their destination, *they're presented with a price based on the distance and how likely they are to be matched. This isn't an estimate, it is what they WILL pay (matched or not) as long as their trip ends within 500m of the entered destination. *The driver is paid based on the actual distance/time, rider is charged whatever the upfront price was. So if the upfront price is higher than the actual time/distance, the rider still pays it because that's what they agreed to. It's a way to get just a bit more money.


Really? Is that why my matched riders that went to the same destination both paid FULL FARE? i.e. _ because it was very UNLIKELY they would be matched? _ 

Sounds like GAMBLING to me.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> LOL, same here. And the Guber lords give the rack another crank and still they drive on.
> 
> I'm waiting for the email, "Valued partner, beginning today you will please accept this new rate schedule to remain active on our platforms. $.00/mile and $.00/minute. We know this might seem extreme to some, but really we are doing this for your own good. So that you can compete with the robot cars for "demand".
> Now don't fret, this new rate structure is just temporary. If it does not have the desired effect, we will then offer you an option to "bid" for riders so that you can remain active and achieve your ride "goals". We know competition to give rides will be tough, but we really believe, 'You can do it'. And remember to stock up on Mints And H2O. Now get your raggedy @ss back to work and quit wasting time reading email. Sincerely, Lord Emperor Sir @sshat du Dousheville (As my friends call me. You can call me Travie)".


Technically with pool, that is actually the case with many of those second/third/fourth rides, is it not?


----------



## chi1cabby

fcklyftline said:


> How come this info is just coming to light?


The info on Uber fraudulently double dipping & shortchanging Drivers on matched UberPool rides isn't new.
I've been posting & tweeting about it since Sept 2015.
*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/641533095699591168*








The tweet above is based on *this post/thread* by arto71.

I've tried to give Drivers a heads up in every new market where UberPool has been introduced.

And either my *warnings*:

*Were Ignored* like *here*
*Met Scepticism* like *here*
Or *were attacked* like* here*


----------



## JaxUbermom

chi1cabby said:


> The info on Uber fraudulently double dipping & shortchanging Drivers on matched UberPool rides isn't new.
> I've been posting & tweeting about it since Sept 2015.
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/641533095699591168*
> View attachment 33264
> 
> The tweet above is based on *this post/thread* by arto71.
> 
> I've tried to give Drivers a heads up in every new market where UberPool has been introduced.
> 
> And either my *warnings*:
> 
> *Were Ignored* like *here*
> *Met Scepticism* like *here*
> Or *were attacked* like* here*


Probably not as much as you think, but they keep coming up with ways to sucker drivers into taking them... The infamous $500 being the newest in what was obviously a market wising up.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

chi1cabby said:


> The info on Uber fraudulently double dipping & shortchanging Drivers on matched UberPool rides isn't new.
> I've been posting & tweeting about it since Sept 2015.
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/641533095699591168*
> View attachment 33264
> 
> The tweet above is based on *this post/thread* by arto71.
> 
> I've tried to give Drivers a heads up in every new market where UberPool has been introduced.
> 
> And either my *warnings*:
> 
> *Were Ignored* like *here*
> *Met Scepticism* like *here*
> Or *were attacked* like* here*


It's Human Nature to resist truth when said truth does not reveal the desired positive outcome. We'd rather believe the lie. We call it "Hopium". Trust me, I'm with the government and I'm here to help you.


----------



## Bart McCoy

chi1cabby said:


> The info on Uber fraudulently double dipping & shortchanging Drivers on matched UberPool rides isn't new.
> I've been posting & tweeting about it since Sept 2015.


Yeah, but UberPool has been going on since September* 2014 ,*Something so blatantly wrong/illegal should have had a lawsuit filed October 2014, just saying.....


----------



## UberPartnerDennis

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> It's Human Nature to resist truth when said truth does not reveal the desired positive outcome. We'd rather believe the lie. We call it "Hopium". Trust me, I'm with the government and I'm here to help you.


My regular job is a government job....and the way you put this statement together made me spit my coffee out...lol


----------



## UberPartnerDennis

chi1cabby said:


> The info on Uber fraudulently double dipping & shortchanging Drivers on matched UberPool rides isn't new.
> I've been posting & tweeting about it since Sept 2015.
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/641533095699591168*
> View attachment 33264
> 
> The tweet above is based on *this post/thread* by arto71.
> 
> I've tried to give Drivers a heads up in every new market where UberPool has been introduced.
> 
> And either my *warnings*:
> 
> *Were Ignored* like *here*
> *Met Scepticism* like *here*
> Or *were attacked* like* here*


IDK about others Ch1cabby ... but whatever you post is given full credibility by me....Because you come from a place of fairness and truth...keep up the good work bro


----------



## JaxUbermom

Bart McCoy said:


> Yeah, but UberPool has been going on since September* 2014 ,*Something so blatantly wrong/illegal should have had a lawsuit filed October 2014, just saying.....


Once again, I agree but wonder why it hasn't. Driver apathy or ignorance maybe? Both? Maybe they did t care at 2014 rates as much as they should now in 2016? (Example of apathy)


----------



## andaas

Bart McCoy said:


> Yeah, but UberPool has been going on since September* 2014 ,*Something so blatantly wrong/illegal should have had a lawsuit filed October 2014, just saying.....


Again, you assume everything righteous happens overnight? Many issues of corporate wrongdoing go on for several years before the issue is caught/identified, etc. For all we know, there are already private litigators gathering data on this issue and preparing a case (although unlikely).

It's possible that the payment parameters for Pool have been changed since the original launch. Maybe this skimming did not become as visible an issue until 2015.

There are too many factors.

Go drive another Pool ride why don't you, you seem to think everything is awesome.


----------



## Bart McCoy

UberPartnerDennis said:


> IDK about others Ch1cabby ... but whatever you post is given full credibility by me.......keep up the good work bro


----------



## UberPartnerDennis

Bart McCoy said:


> View attachment 33271


I KNEW I forgot to block someone


----------



## chi1cabby

andaas said:


> Maybe this skimming did not become as visible an issue until 2015.


I found out about Uber & Lyft skimming off the matched UberPool & LyftLINE fares in late Aug 2015:
*LyftLINE & UberPOOL | Inside Lyft & Uber's Quest To Squeeze More People In The Backseat*

Prior to that, I'd thought the Drivers were recouping the rewards of efficiency & productivity gains of these two services, while the companies recouped multiple Safe Rides Fees & Trust & Safety Fees from the same ride, and benefited from higher rider volume due to lower costs:
*A Must Read For All Drivers | Uber's New Big Hairy Audacious Goal*


----------



## Bart McCoy

JaxUbermom said:


> Once again, I agree but wonder why it hasn't. Driver apathy or ignorance maybe? Both? Maybe they did t care at 2014 rates as much as they should now in 2016? (Example of apathy)


Lets say it was $5/mile in 2014. All that means is that you were losing even MORE money back then due to pool,so what the rate was plays no issue.The theory of getting ripped off still applied.



andaas said:


> Again, you assume everything righteous happens overnight? Many issues of corporate wrongdoing go on for several years before the issue is caught/identified, etc. For all we know, there are already private litigators gathering data on this issue and preparing a case (although unlikely).
> 
> It's possible that the payment parameters for Pool have been changed since the original launch. Maybe this skimming did not become as visible an issue until 2015.
> 
> There are too many factors.
> 
> Go drive another Pool ride why don't you, you seem to think everything is awesome.


If you actually read anything I've typed, you would know that I never thought or said pool was awesome. Actually, in this post, I said UberPool was a ripoff. I clearly said that. But what you fail to comprehend is that my whole debate was that people who claim they were getting ripped off by UberPool and didnt know it,simply can't read. What I debated and still defend is that Uber was fully transparent with pool. They clearly laid out how you get paid, and they in no way shape or form led anyone to believe you should get paid double (say if you had 2 separate pax). Never did they state that in any way. They clearly laid out an UberPool fee schedule. So before you took your first pool ride, common sense should have told you , you will be ripped off. If you dont want to be ripped dont, dont take pool, its that simple. Never said it was awesome, and reg rate pool is a complete waste of time and energy,so stop trying to slander my name, I simply tell it like it is.

Now of course I never do reg rate pools (since I dont even do reg rate UBerX), but I surely will accept 2.0 and higher pools in my market. Anybody who doesnt, is leaving money on the table. You need to learn how to work pools to your advantage. Anybody that says pool rides are in no way profitable, simply are clueless to how the UberPool system works, *SMH*


----------



## JaxUbermom

chi1cabby said:


> I found out about Uber & Lyft skimming off the matched UberPool & LyftLINE fares in late Aug 2015:
> *LyftLINE & UberPOOL | Inside Lyft & Uber's Quest To Squeeze More People In The Backseat*
> 
> Prior to that, I'd thought the Drivers were recouping the rewards of efficiency & productivity gains of these two services, while the companies recouped multiple Safe Rides Fees & Trust & Safety Fees from the same ride, and benefited from higher rider volume due to lower costs:
> *A Must Read For All Drivers | Uber's New Big Hairy Audacious Goal*


So I went and read your post and yes, you were shouting into the wind. 
A couple theories: not enough drivers come here and not enough drivers understand mathematics.

Why has there NOT been a lawsuit started? Seriously.


----------



## Bart McCoy

chi1cabby said:


> Prior to that, I'd thought the Drivers were recouping the rewards of efficiency & productivity gains of these two services, while the companies recouped multiple Safe Rides Fees & Trust & Safety Fees from the same ride, and benefited from higher rider volume due to lower costs:*l*


Then when UberPool was introduced, you obviously ignored the UberPool fee schedule. Simply looking at the fee schedule, lets you know you dont get paid for every fare that each of the different pax in your car pay. Reading is fundamental, and for you to say and believe that drivers "benefited from higher rider volume due to lower costs", then you surely must believe their other slogan, that lower rates equals higher earnings!! so you believe in rate cuts, shameful!!!!


----------



## UberPartnerDennis

JaxUbermom said:


> So I went and read your post and yes, you were shouting into the wind.
> A couple theories: not enough drivers come here and not enough drivers understand mathematics.
> 
> Why has there NOT been a lawsuit started? Seriously.


I am in no position to do it....but there is a lawyer who is currently suing Uber on several fronts and probably would love to hear from someone credible on this


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

UberPartnerDennis said:


> My regular job is a government job....and the way you put this statement together made me spit my coffee out...lol


Glad to be of service! Too much caffeine intake is harmful to one's health. I really am here to help.


----------



## Bart McCoy

JaxUbermom said:


> So I went and read your post and yes, you were shouting into the wind.
> A couple theories: not enough drivers come here and not enough drivers understand mathematics.
> 
> *Why has there NOT been a lawsuit started? Seriously*.


well well well, Ive been saying that, and got attacked for it. But since your name is not Bart McCoy, then I guess everybody will listen and support you on this question, smh


----------



## chi1cabby

JaxUbermom said:


> Why has there NOT been a lawsuit started? Seriously.


For there to be a #UberPoolLawsuit:

The Drivers have to be aware of the skimming off the top & double dipping on matched UberPool rides.
The Drivers have to gather the necessary evidence in the form of Receipts from matched UberPool riders, like hackajar did, and consult with a Class Action attorney.
Drivers have to be opted out of the Binding Arbitration provision to join together in a Class Action.


----------



## chi1cabby

Bart McCoy said:


> Then when UberPool was introduced, you obviously ignored the UberPool fee schedule.


You obviously have no historical knowledge of UberPool. There were No UberPool rate schedules in 2014 when UberPool started in SF, or was later introduced in NYC or LA. Unmatched UberPool rides were charged & paid out at UberX Rates.

It was only with the UberPool rollout in Chicago, D.C. & Miami fall 2015, that the rollout was accompanied by a UberPool rate schedule, that was lower than UberX Rates, for payouts to Drivers. The UberPool Riders in these markets pay UberX Rates with a 25% discount.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

I understand all the emotions on these issues, believe me. But why does it take us to "lawsuits"? Especially class action suits. Who gives a rats @ss about lawsuits? Only the lawyers benefit from the judgements. Voice your opinion in the only forum GUber cares about. Logoff the stupid apps, permanently. The solution is simple, no revenue = NO GUBER. And I don't need another coupon from Guber offering me a free ride credit.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> I understand all the emotions on these issues, believe me. But why does it take us to "lawsuits"? Especially class action suits. Who gives a rats @ss about lawsuits? Only the lawyers benefit from the judgements. Voice your opinion in the only forum GUber cares about. Logoff the stupid apps, permanently. The solution is simple, no revenue = NO GUBER. And I don't need another coupon from Guber offering me a free ride credit.


I can't even go down this road with someone that supports Casuale Haberdasher, as it would hurt my soul... Except to say it just isn't that simple,in life, but I wish it were.


----------



## chi1cabby

Bart McCoy said:


> *Reading is fundamental*





Bart McCoy said:


> and for you to say and believe that drivers "benefited from higher rider volume due to lower costs",





chi1cabby said:


> Prior to that, I'd thought the *Drivers* were recouping the rewards of efficiency & productivity gains of these two services





chi1cabby said:


> while the *companies* recouped multiple Safe Rides Fees & Trust & Safety Fees from the same ride, and benefited from higher rider volume due to lower costs:





Bart McCoy said:


> *Reading is fundamental*


----------



## JaxUbermom

chi1cabby said:


> You obviously have no historical knowledge of UberPool. There were No UberPool rate schedules in 2014 when UberPool started in SF, or was later introduced in NYC or LA. Unmatched UberPool rides were charged & paid out at UberX Rates.
> 
> It was only with the UberPool rollout in Chicago, D.C. & Miami fall 2015, that the rollout was accompanied by a UberPool rate schedule, that was lower than UberX Rates, for payouts to Drivers. The UberPool Riders in these markets pay UberX Rates with a 25% discount.


Has the verbiage in contracts with Uber been changed to reflect acceptance of Pool? mine doesn't say diddly about it, but I also am not in a pool market. You might wonder why I give a rat's butt, but it's because I care about drivers as a whole, and this pool is like a cancer, because it makes Uber so much more money without regard to the drivers and it spreads every week to another market. I have to believe they have finally found their ultimate cash cow and are going to ram it down the throats of everyone who has come to count/rely/desire the income they get via the "partnership" now, and that is predatory in the extreme.


----------



## Bart McCoy

chi1cabby said:


> You obviously have no historical knowledge of UberPool. There were No UberPool rate schedules in 2014 when UberPool started in SF, or was later introduced in NYC or LA. *Unmatched UberPool rides were charged & paid out at UberX Rates*
> 
> .


You threw "unmatched" in there. Nobody is talking about unmatched. I never debated unmatched. Clearly I was talking about drivers getting paid the full fare for all riders in their car (more than 1 pax)

If there was no fee schedule, then that would mean the drivers would get paid double the fare if they took 2 different pax the same number of miles. In other words, UberPool would be POINTLESS for Uber to even offer that. The only way Uber benefits from UberPool is taking the reg fare of both pax, and charging the drivers less. But you saying SF and NYC drivers got full fare for all pax?


----------



## hackajar

Bart McCoy said:


> You threw "unmatched" in there. Nobody is talking about unmatched. I never debated unmatched. Clearly I was talking about drivers getting paid the full fare for all riders in their car (more than 1 pax)
> 
> If there was no fee schedule, then that would mean the drivers would get paid double the fare if they took 2 different pax the same number of miles. In other words, UberPool would be POINTLESS for Uber to even offer that. The only way Uber benefits from UberPool is taking the reg fare of both pax, and charging the drivers less. But you saying SF and NYC drivers got full fare for all pax?


No in SF, it appears that as soon as your first POOL enters your car, you are now in "POOL Mode" earning $1.05/mile+0.15/min, until the last pax leaves your car. Then "POOL Mode" ends, and your miles/min are tallied up. ZERO INFORMATION FROM PAX FARE is used to calculate "POOL Mode". What about surge? Pax agrees to turn on "Surge POOL Mode" for you when they hail during surge period.  THERE FARE IS STILL NOT FACTORED, they just did you a favor and added a multiplier to your "POOL Mode" as a driver.


----------



## chi1cabby

JaxUbermom said:


> Has the verbiage in contracts with Uber been changed to reflect acceptance of Pool? mine doesn't say diddly about it, but I also am not in a pool market.


There is NO language on UberPool in the *Rasier/Uber Services Agreement* .

The the UberPool rollouts in markets such as Chicago, Miami & D.C. were accompanied with market specific Addendum on UberPool Rates. These Addendums specified what Drivers would be paid. These Addendums didn't spell out that the Riders would be charged a separate/different Rate for their UberPool rides.

The language on Fares & Fees in the *Rasier**/Uber Services Agreement* is very specific:
*4. Financial Terms 
4.1 Fare Calculation*_* and Your Payment:* You are entitled to charge a fare for each instance of completed Transportation Services provided to a User that are obtained via the Uber Services ("Fare"), where such Fare is calculated based upon a base fare amount plus distance (as determined by Company using location-based services enabled through the Device) and/or time amounts, as detailed at _*www.uber.com/cities *_for the applicable Territory ("Fare Calculation"). 
*4.4 Service Fee*: In consideration of Company's provision of the Driver App and the Uber Services for your use and benefit hereunder, you agree to pay Company a service fee on a per Transportation Services transaction basis calculated as a percentage of the Fare determined by the Fare Calculation (regardless of any Negotiated Fare), as provided to you via email or otherwise made available electronically by Company from time to time for the applicable Territory ("Service Fee"). _

And Btw, *www.uber.com/cities *does not list how UberPool is charged or paid out in any city where UberPool is available.


----------



## Bart McCoy

hackajar said:


> No in SF, it appears that as soon as your first POOL enters your car, you are now in "POOL Mode" earning $1.05/mile+0.15/min, until the last pax leaves your car. Then "POOL Mode" ends, and your miles/min are tallied up. ZERO INFORMATION FROM PAX FARE is used to calculate "POOL Mode". What about surge? Pax agrees to turn on "Surge POOL Mode" for you when they hail during surge period. THERE FARE IS STILL NOT FACTORED, they just did you a favor and added a multiplier to your "POOL Mode" as a driver.


If thats the case, then what I say stands. *It was known from September 2014 that pool was a ripoff.* Thanks for confirming my assumption. Ch1cabby is saying it didn't work like that until a year later. Even if it wasnt a pool schedule set back in 2014(with slightly less pay), *you were still getting paid by mile/min, instead of getting paid by adding up both total fares of different pax*


----------



## hackajar

Check out the revised research! bit.ly/uberpoolscam


----------



## hackajar

Bart McCoy said:


> If thats the case, then what I say stands. *It was known from September 2014 that pool was a ripoff.* Thanks for confirming my assumption. Ch1cabby is saying it didn't work like that until a year later. Even if it wasnt a pool schedule set back in 2014(with slightly less pay), *you were still getting paid by mile/min, instead of getting paid by adding up both total fares of different pax*


I cannot speak for any UberPOOL prior to January 2016, as I was not a partner then. I am only speaking to how things are *now*


----------



## JaxUbermom

Your article is good, but now what? Not being cynical. I really mean what now? The recent mounting negative press about Uber leads me to think that at least a few larger outlets would like to get a piece of the bashing pie? 
And yes, I think there is a ton of room for passengers to feel like they are getting ripped off if the driver isn't getting paid. It's a psychological thing.


----------



## chi1cabby

hackajar said:


> Check out the revised research! bit.ly/uberpoolscam


*https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.aarnfdo5s*


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

JaxUbermom said:


> I can't even go down this road with someone that supports Casuale Haberdasher, as it would hurt my soul... Except to say it just isn't that simple,in life, but I wish it were.


Well, we're on it now so may as well confront this ugly truth. One believe's that trying to "out lawyer" these cats is less complicated and will bear fruit? It can't and it won't. What you all ignore is that there is no law mandating guberz existence. They will do business under terms they set or not at all. This is fundamental to their business model.

One, or a collective, or even a judge can not force them to change through lawsuits or any other method. And trying to lawyer up against them is like chasing ghosts in the mist.

However, we each have a power that guber does not have and cannot ever possess. We are a free people and we each possess the power of "one". Logoff. Yes, it is that simple and it is the ONLY solution.

To deny this elemental fact is to continue to be the adict/victim. And I will not enable this behavior. "He only abuses me after he's had a few beers. If only he wasn't such an @sshole when he drinks." The truth is that he is abusive because he is an @sshole. A non abuser/non-ahole can have three cocktails without feeling the need to exact violence on another.

The only escape from an abusive partner is to get away. Hoping they "change their ways" simply empowers them to continue the pattern of abuse. "Hey, she must like it she keeps coming back for more". Making one feel powerless and without options is part and parcel of their strategy.

Life w/o guber is better. And that is the truth. I wish you peace and good fortune sister, but get away from these @ssclowns as quickly as one can. And never look back!


----------



## Bart McCoy

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> One, or a collective, or even a judge can not force them to change through lawsuits or any other method. And trying to lawyer up against them is like chasing ghosts in the mist.
> 
> The only escape from an abusive partner is to get away. Hoping they "change their ways" simply empowers them to continue the pattern of abuse. "Hey, she must like it she keeps coming back for more". Making one feel powerless and without options is part and parcel of their strategy.


Great post.
Sadly, but proudly as owning a business in America, Uber can do what they want.

And people dont want to quit. They want to stay working for peanuts, doing pool rides they hate, and crave to find new posts about bad things concerning Uber and come running to post them here on this forum. Some folks need to get their life together


----------



## JaxUbermom

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Well, we're on it now so may as well confront this ugly truth. One believe's that trying to "out lawyer" these cats is less complicated and will bear fruit? It can't and it won't. What you all ignore is that there is no law mandating guberz existence. They will do business under terms they set or not at all. This is fundamental to their business model.
> 
> One, or a collective, or even a judge can not force them to change through lawsuits or any other method. And trying to lawyer up against them is like chasing ghosts in the mist.
> 
> However, we each have a power that guber does not have and cannot ever possess. We are a free people and we each possess the power of "one". Logoff. Yes, it is that simple and it is the ONLY solution.
> 
> To deny this elemental fact is to continue to be the adict/victim. And I will not enable this behavior. "He only abuses me after he's had a few beers. If only he wasn't such an @sshole when he drinks." The truth is that he is abusive because he is an @sshole. A non abuser/non-ahole can have three cocktails without feeling the need to exact violence on another.
> 
> The only escape from an abusive partner is to get away. Hoping they "change their ways" simply empowers them to continue the pattern of abuse. "Hey, she must like it she keeps coming back for more". Making one feel powerless and without options is part and parcel of their strategy.
> 
> Life w/o guber is better. And that is the truth. I wish you peace and good fortune sister, but get away from these @ssclowns as quickly as one can. And never look back!


So you no longer drive? Forgive me if I ask a question answered elsewhere, been trying to do some house related stuff and keep coming back, because this whole pool fiasco is fascinating. As mentioned it isn't in my market, thankfully, but I am sure if the company had their way, it would be everywhere.

I am happy that you have additional income streams that allowed you,to step away from the App. Some are not so fortunate, and that is something Uber does count on.

Forums like this help educate a public, but no, it isn't as simple as walking away for a lot of people. class action lawsuits have one distinct advantage when all other dreams cannot come to fruition... Eating up their money and eventually bringing any company not willing to fall in line to a degree enough - down. Do I want that for Uber? Actually no. Being held to contractual limitations? Yes. Being held accountable for what probably are blatantly flouted regulations? Yes.


----------



## hackajar

JaxUbermom said:


> Your article is good, but now what? Not being cynical. I really mean what now? The recent mounting negative press about Uber leads me to think that at least a few larger outlets would like to get a piece of the bashing pie?
> And yes, I think there is a ton of room for passengers to feel like they are getting ripped off if the driver isn't getting paid. It's a psychological thing.


Glad you asked! Here is a list:

Find a POOL ride, click Help->I had an issue with a rider ->Report rider behavior. Then put a note, "I do not want to receive UberPOOL requests". Keep responding to the support thread explaining you do not want UberPOOL and you are a private contractor that can opt out, until they turn it off.
As noted on this thread, put a note in your back seat, for me, it reads, "NOTICE: No UberPOOL fares go to driver", and nothing else. It is a conversation starter with pax. I can explain that they are not really getting a discount (in SJ area) with POOL, and driver gets zero money from them directly, Uber pays us 15% of their fare instead. Remind them it is the same as a waiter's tips being collected by management for services they provided.
Write a letter to the CPUC, if they get enough letters, they may respond http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=3009
Fill out a FTC business practice form https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1
In San Jose, notify your council person, the city can actually mandate that no UberPOOL be allowed in city.https://www.sanjoseca.gov/index.aspx?NID=1187 (See also SJC issue on their minds)


----------



## thehappytypist

LEAFdriver said:


> Really? Is that why my matched riders that went to the same destination both paid FULL FARE? i.e. _ because it was very UNLIKELY they would be matched? _
> 
> Sounds like GAMBLING to me.


Pretty much. They either take the upfront price or leave it.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Bart McCoy said:


> Great post.
> Sadly, but proudly as owning a business in America, Uber can do what they want.
> 
> And people dont want to quit. They want to stay working for peanuts, doing pool rides they hate, and crave to find new posts about bad things concerning Uber and come running to post them here on this forum. Some folks need to get their life together


Bart, sometimes you really confuse me, from one thread to another.

What exactly is YOUR stance on Uber? You often appear to be a "kool -aide drinker" as some call it, and then others you appear to be a surge shark? Or even so far as a hater? I never know what I'll get when I read one of your posts.

You began this rationalizing what Uber does is ok, or at least legal and everyone else should feel stupid for accepting pool requests, when in fact they really might not have known, due their lack of due diligence, (but thankfully for OP and chi1cabby can learn and make an informed choice) 
I had you blocked once upon a time but turned it off because sometimes you make sense, but today, I am just confused again.

As for the commentary of getting a life, or whining, I think some need an outlet, and this one seems to be it. Me, I don't drive Thursdays and seem to have spent an indulgent amount of time here, getting a feel for this pool thing, as I see it as an overstepping of their bounds and can't believe people let them get away with it except when seduced by bonuses and fiscal manipulation...

PS big shout out to Ventura for getting their 25% rate increase today...(in other news) maybe all the puff puff passing of base fare rides, regardless of bonuses made a difference?


----------



## chi1cabby

Bart McCoy said:


> find new posts about bad things concerning Uber and come running to post them here on this forum.


Some people actually work to make things better from the Drivers' perspective, by bringing Drivers grievances to the attention of the reporters who cover Uber. It isn't about "finding and posting" bad things about Uber.


----------



## Bart McCoy

JaxUbermom said:


> Bart, sometimes you really confuse me, from one thread to another.
> 
> What exactly is YOUR stance on Uber? You often appear to be a "kool -aide drinker" as some call it, and then others you appear to be a surge shark? Or even so far as a hater? I never know what I'll get when I read one of your posts.


see this post:

http://www.uberpeople.net/threads/h...y-do-and-hate-drivers-for-what-they-do.64463/

hopefully that should clear up my stance


----------



## JaxUbermom

Bart McCoy said:


> see this post:
> 
> http://www.uberpeople.net/threads/h...y-do-and-hate-drivers-for-what-they-do.64463/
> 
> hopefully that should clear up my stance


Well, kind of hate to say it, but it seems we agree... Lol. Actually I don't hate anyone, nor even Uber. Dislike their decisions and actions, all the way around... Yes, I have to say that's true. Except maybe this pool thing... That might tip the balance, and they should be held accountable or to at least justify their obvious breach of contract with drivers/circumventing their own contract.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Bart McCoy said:


> Great post.
> Sadly, but proudly as owning a business in America, Uber can do what they want.
> 
> And people dont want to quit. They want to stay working for peanuts, doing pool rides they hate, and crave to find new posts about bad things concerning Uber and come running to post them here on this forum. Some folks need to get their life together


On this note: I don't just take what Uber hands me, and get the nasty grams for it. 
I spend a lot of time in my own market trying to get to know drivers in person and their habits as to what they deem successful and steer them in a different direction of I can logically prove they can do it better., and hopefully maybe work more like a team, though that one is REALLY hard for a lot of reasons.

I do it without vitriol toward Uber, because in fact, they designed the system to work as I choose to work it, minus the nasty grams, so they can stuff it. If you don't want me holding out for surge rides of a fare to my degree of acceptance, I suppose you better not have surge, but that (next to this pool insanity) is still their bread and butter. The booking fees are just an offset, certainly not profitable. If they eliminate surge, inevitably they follow with bonus carrot and stick routines, but my market makes that unnecessary...all I got on that topic, it's a work in progress here...

I drive fewer miles, turn down fewer rides, though I do some, and I make a relatively decent amount considering, knowing any one day, I might come home with zero, I refuse to budge and pay for the privilege of driving people around, just to have my ap on and stay busy, because taking a base rate fare is co-signing at abuse you speak of, and I just can't - except in rare circumstances. I tried it Uber's way and lost my ass, but I tried it to know for myself.

I dont even try to catch fares going my direction anymore because it leads to time taken from my true money making market and just pisses me off. I am not here for CASHFLOW, but I understand some certainly are. I wish they weren't, but face it, they are. Borrowing against the family Griswold wagon is a sad matter of need for some and I believe they all know or come to know it when they cannot afford their repairs...later.
I know this is off topic of pool, but if everyone would face the music of acceptance rating hits, which then bump,them put of bonus contention, pool would be history, and the company knows it. ...

The math on how much they make skimming those pools, versus what a driver would have made saying no, only matters when they are all willing to forgo the bonus trap and too many won't. Any many will fail to make bonus- more than will achieve it, and will be out double, surely enough. Then come here and cry about it, yes. It takes an almost jaded heart (or a very realistic one) to be profitable working with Uber. For now, what I do, works for me, and I am not screwing anyone over in how I do business, so I sleep at night (or during the morning, as it were).


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

JaxUbermom said:


> So you no longer drive?..
> 
> ...I am happy that you have additional income streams that allowed you,to step away from the App. Some are not so fortunate...


Correct, I no longer drive rideshare platforms. Or Postbites or any of the other vulture capital 1099 I/C platforms.

Fortune had nothing to do with developing "additional" income streams. I actively sought them out. No one "allowed me to step away from the app". This is "victim speak". I gave myself permission to find an alternative.

Are you trying to suggest that "ubering" is the only possibility for earned income in your market? That seems ridiculous. How did people survive BU (before uber). Are there no Chinese restaurants in your hometown? Please stop being a victim. Empower yourself. It will feel fantastic, I assure you.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Are you trying to suggest that "ubering" is the only possibility for earned income in your market? That seems ridiculous. How did people survive BU (before uber). Are there no Chinese restaurants in your hometown? Please stop being a victim. Empower yourself. It will feel fantastic, I assure you.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Bart McCoy said:


> View attachment 33298


This pop culture reference is too obscure for me. A little context please.


----------



## UberLaLa

This article is spot on. Take for instance I had a 2.3x surge from dtla to Hermosa Beach one night. We picked up another rider at 3.1. surge within a few minutes of first pax start. 2nd pax payout to me was around $6 - 1st pax payout to me was $24. The first pax went just over 20 miles and the 2nd pax about 15 miles. No rhyme or reason to it all.

Worst part is picking up 2nd pax took over 10 minutes of wrong direction driving and an additional 15 minutes out 1st pax route. 2nd pax left a 5 Star rating for me, with a scathing complaint to Uber for the extra time and hassle.


----------



## UberLaLa

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> This pop culture reference is too obscure for me. A little context please.


Bart (muppets) just be like- _DAMN STRAIGHT FOO!_


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield

Bart McCoy said:


> What is there to be surprised about? Did drivers really think they would get paid double the fare (1 for each different pax party) for pool rides? NO. And uber tells you this upfront,so no surprise.
> 
> When you do a pool ride, there's no secret as to how and how much you get paid. They clearly have a pool rate schedule for every market. No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


Hi Bart.....your BFF here....miss me?....First, full fare is what each of those rides would be if they were run separately. The (apparent) reason for an offering such as pool rate is so that pax enjoy a lower fare for a slower door to door service. Now....the driver is absolutely entitled to their proportional share of the total fare charged on that trip and per the agreement published by UBER, the fees UBER charges are a constant. Nowhere does the agreement discuss a lil sumpin sumpin extra for Travis if the rides are pooled!!! ....If your bosses decided to break that agreement....they are pretty screwed Bart. Say....here anything from Kalamazoo lately?...


----------



## JaxUbermom

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Correct, I no longer drive rideshare platforms. Or Postbites or any of the other vulture capital 1099 I/C platforms.
> 
> Fortune had nothing to do with developing "additional" income streams. I actively sought them out. No one "allowed me to step away from the app". This is "victim speak". I gave myself permission to find an alternative.
> 
> Are you trying to suggest that "ubering" is the only possibility for earned income in your market? That seems ridiculous. How did people survive BU (before uber). Are there no Chinese restaurants in your hometown? Please stop being a victim. Empower yourself. It will feel fantastic, I assure you.


Nope, and I see we are possibly about to degenerate as many threads do here.
I am still happy for you that you made your choices and found alternatives for yourself. This is not my sole source of income- never was, never will be, I speak in generalized terms. ... But I take what I do in regards to all financial ventures seriously. I already do community service, and have hobbies, as so many discuss here. Uber is neither of those. Lol. No worries there.

I think you are too used to victim mentality and thereby accuse us all of it. Not so in my case, but I get your psychological stereotyping I just do t agree with it. I am far from a victim.


----------



## hackajar

Driving rideshare for me is good way to get secondary income ad hoc. I can't just show up at a store, put an apron on, and start making money. Doing this research, publishing it, and bringing it to the communities attention, is all about realigning the course of the ship. A ship we all seem to want to go in the right direction, for a variety of reasons.

It is not about bashing Uber, or quitting to "show them".


----------



## UberNOT4me

Uber just release UberDrag, it's cheaper than UberPool


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## Mitch J

chi1cabby said:


> *Is Uber Skimming off the top?
> By hackajar
> 
> https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.mpme01xge*


LOL


----------



## Diamondtable

The last straw for me was 2 pool passengers back to back told me that UberX was not available in the area & they had to pick POOL. My car was empty prior to both rides but UberX is not avail.......


----------



## El Janitor

I've never had to pick up a second rider doing pool. The second rider always cancels, and then takes Uber X when they realize, they selected pool and are now waiting for me to get to them.


----------



## NuberUber

Diamondtable said:


> The last straw for me was 2 pool passengers back to back told me that UberX was not available in the area & they had to pick POOL. My car was empty prior to both rides but UberX is not avail.......


I tried to grab my girlfriend a ride on the Uner app the other night because she was having the same issue. It was really really early in the morning and she just wanted to get home but everytime she ordered an Uber it defaulted to Pool.

I grabbed her phone thinking she was obviously hitting something she shouldn't but couldn't get it to order an X car. It always prompted a "how many passengers?" Question that had choices 1-4 and when you answered 1 or 2 it would put you in a pool. I finally selected 4 pax just get an Uber X car.

I thought this was incredibly deceptive since unless I knew how to get around it, there would be no way to figure out how to order without pool and you would just be stuck. Sucks that the riders probably don't even realize. I'm pretty sure it definitely is area specific as well, since we were ordering from a "pool zone".


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> You threw "unmatched" in there. Nobody is talking about unmatched. I never debated unmatched. Clearly I was talking about drivers getting paid the full fare for all riders in their car (more than 1 pax)
> 
> If there was no fee schedule, then that would mean the drivers would get paid double the fare if they took 2 different pax the same number of miles. In other words, UberPool would be POINTLESS for Uber to even offer that. The only way Uber benefits from UberPool is taking the reg fare of both pax, and charging the drivers less. But you saying SF and NYC drivers got full fare for all pax?


It's the uberx rate for the total mileage and minutes travelled in transporting both the pax, when we talk about the general pool ride in NYC.


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> It's the uberx rate for the total mileage and minutes travelled in transporting both the pax, when we talk about the general pool ride in NYC.


So once again you prove my point, it was known that pool was a ripoff since 2014.its almost mid 2016 and no hint of a Lawsuit yet.


----------



## ninja warrior

In the NYC market, they promise the riders a 25% discount compared to uber x. The driver gets paid the uber x rate. Let's assume the mileage rate is $1 ,with a matched ride, the riders would each pay 75 cents/mile, which would equal $1.50/mile for all miles shared. The pickup and drop off locations are within 4-5 blocks of each other the majority of the time.The driver in his payout would be paid according to the $1/mile schedule. Uber keeps the 50 cents with no declaration to the driver in addition to the contractually stated commission on the remaining dollar.


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> So once again you prove my point, it was known that pool was a ripoff since 2014.its almost mid 2016 and no hint of a Lawsuit yet.


I fail to see how I proved YOUR point. I'm not even sure you have a coherent point. Just because it hasn't been sued yet absolves it from any liability in the future? The program is still active. It will be brought to a court of law and questioned, sooner rather than later.


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> I fail to see how I proved YOUR point. I'm not even sure you have a coherent point. Just because it hasn't been sued yet absolves it from any liability in the future? The program is still active. It will be brought to a court of law and questioned, sooner rather than later.


Its becuase once again you are lost as to what I am actually debating, smh. Re-read what I typed. Slowly.

And as for lawsuits, i NEVER said there wont be a lawsuit, I simply said there isnt one on the books as of 2014 to 2016. Comprehension is key......


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> In the NYC market, they promise the riders a 25% discount compared to uber x. The driver gets paid the uber x rate. Let's assume the mileage rate is $1 ,with a matched ride, the riders would each pay 75 cents/mile, which would equal $1.50/mile for all miles shared. The pickup and drop off locations are within 4-5 blocks of each other the majority of the time.The driver in his payout would be paid according to the $1/mile schedule. Uber keeps the 50 cents with no declaration to the driver in addition to the contractually stated commission on the remaining dollar.


So this proves my point. Again. UberX schedule or pool schedule, it doesnt matter,drivers were never getting paid the total of what all the pax in their car pay.


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> So this proves my point. Again. UberX schedule or pool schedule, it doesnt matter,drivers where never getting paid the total of what all the pax in their car pay.


And that wasn't abundantly clear. That's my point. To know it's a ripoff, the driver needs to know what the pax actually paid. That information wasn't disclosed to us by our transaction partner. It's getting closer to fraud which would more likely be a criminal offense.


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> So this proves my point. Again. UberX schedule or pool schedule, it doesnt matter,drivers where never getting paid the total of what all the pax in their car pay.


Good sir, before questioning my reading comprehension, please pay closer attention to your own writing.


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> Well see, this is where common sense needs to kick in. You say you need to know what the pax actually paid. Oh okay, so 1 year 4 months after pool somebody finally decides to ask what pax paid? You see what ive been saying now?
> 
> But back to common sense.You saying u need to know what pax paid, but common sense shoudl say the driver is getting paid less than the total fares. Why? Because UberPool would make no sense. Whole point of pool is to make money for Uber. They make no money (no additional money) if they pay the drivers the full amout. Same way bus companies would make no additional money of they paid the bus driver the sum of all the fares the 82 passengers paid.....
> 
> Common sense should say, why would Uber offer reduced rates for pax, but pay the driver the sum of those reduced rates? Common sense says if Uber did they, they might as well NOT have pool at all, and clearly make more money having everybody do UberX!!!!! Hate uber all you want, they arent stupid .Stupid is all the people who thought they should be getting paid double the fare for 2 pax, so that uber makes no extra money . Stupid people dont know business
> 
> This is as simplest as i can explain it


You have a problem about people not making an issue about the pay structure when the service first came out? This isn't a case of aggravated assault, where you know it has happened. It's a more subtle crime.The guy comparing a fixed income job to a commission based one is talking about common sense? Ok. Keep the condescension to a minimum up until the day you can actually formulate comprehensible sentences. To the question of uber making a profit or starting a service to increase their margins, I do not give a rat's furry behind, much like many of the drivers that provide the service. Whether they make or lose money on pool is totally their problem, my problem is when they deceptively siphon money by charging a rider more than they pay out by stating that it is a cab fare. If they actually broke down the receipt to reveal how much the driver got paid, it would be a more transparent process, much like the receipts I have at my current driving job, which explicitly state each charge as a separate line.


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> You have a problem about people not making an issue about the pay structure when the service first came out? This isn't a case of aggravated assault, where you know it has happened. It's a more subtle crime.The guy comparing a fixed income job to a commission based one is talking about common sense? Ok. Keep the condescension to a minimum up until the day you can actually formulate comprehensible sentences. To the question of uber making a profit or starting a service to increase their margins, I do not give a rat's furry behind, much like many of the drivers that provide the service. Whether they make or lose money on pool is totally their problem, my problem is when they deceptively siphon money by charging a rider more than they pay out by stating that it is a cab fare. If they actually broke down the receipt to reveal how much the driver got paid, it would be a more transparent process, much like the receipts I have at my current driving job, which explicitly state each charge as a separate line.


People understand what I write fine. Even you. If you didn't, how in da world could you be replying to words written by me that you couldn't understand or formulate the meaning of? So cut it out, stop reaching, stop lying . Stop being upset because I expose and put not-so-bright people on blast.

Uber is transparent about how you get paid for pool. Only people who think they are being deceptive are folks who do not know how to read a fee schedule written in English!


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> People understand what I write fine. Even you. If you didn't, how in da world could you be replying to words written by me that you couldn't understand or formulate the meaning of? So cut it out, stop reaching, stop lying . Stop being upset because I expose and put not-so-bright people on blast.
> 
> Uber is transparent about how you get paid for pool. Only people who think they are being deceptive are folks who do not know how to read a fee schedule written in English!


 Reaching? The only reason I could understand what your puny mind formulated is because I'm not a simpleton. You just contradicted yourself. Your English is not proper and yet you think uber is transparent. Come on, if you want to condescend, do it right. Until then, let the "not so bright " minds do the debating; and you can take your keister to a grammar and comprehension class.


----------



## GILD

My take on this whole thing is , Never drive a matched pool. only pick up one rider, drop them off. ignore all matches and second pings. no matter what. If drivers get paid for milage, matched milage makes no sense for driver, only for uber corp who is hiding actual Fares and therefor breaking the contract with its drivers on FARES and compensation. I bet your 1099 will show both pool charges in full on your 1099, therefore not only not paying drivers right, but also passing the xtra money they got onto YOUR tax bill, meaning your paying the tax on THEIR earnings that you received ZERO compensation for. Remember All Gross Fares (including pool) is on your 1099! therefore driver is actually losing money on a match pool because the minute they get in car, your being taxed on that Fare(the one you didnt get), with no additional mileage deduction and no compensation. 

To clarify, the 2nd pax paid $12, you got none of that money, but it shows up on your 1099 under gross fares, and since uber paid you none of it, you subtract no payment from you $12 gross fare, and no milage either, and YOU pay the tax on that $12, not uber! you just took a second pax, got paid zero money for it, and now owe $3 in tax to government on uber the corporations $12 profit! they pay no tax of course. paying taxes is not necessary. uber policy.

So again, never take a second rider! And unless the first pool is less than 4 min away, dont accept it either. LOSE/LOSE


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> Reaching? The only reason I could understand what your puny mind formulated is because I'm not a simpleton. You just contradicted yourself. Your English is not proper and yet you think uber is transparent. Come on, if you want to condescend, do it right. Until then, let the "not so bright " minds do the debating; and you can take your keister to a grammar and comprehension class.


You giving yourself way too much credit if you think I care about what you or anyone else thinks about my grammar and/or spelling. I dont care enough to make sure its 100% proper for an anti-uber forum. I only care on places that matter, like contracts and financial /business documents etc. Thats when I go back and make sure every i is dotted and every t is crossed. Sure not gonna do that for here!!! You care too much here,obviously I dont. But once again you proved, regardless of my grammer, you clearly understand what I write.Otherwise how you even be able to formulate a response to jibberish? Smh. Just because you dont agree with my opinions, or mad because i dumbed down people who dont know or understand how pool payment works, dont try make up crap saying i cant spell or write proper grammar,again, stop reaching!!!


----------



## chi1cabby

GILD said:


> I bet your 1099 will show both pool charges in full on your 1099, therefore not only not paying drivers right, but also passing the xtra money they got onto YOUR tax bill, meaning your paying the tax on THEIR earnings that you received ZERO compensation for. Remember All Gross Fares (including pool) is on your 1099!


Thank you for making that point!

We need some Drivers from UberPool markets to add up their Total Fares for couple of months and compare them to the amounts listed on their 1099-K.

*A question for Tax Pros: How does Uber resolve the discrepancy in UberPool payments in 1099-K forms?*


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> You giving yourself way too much credit if you think I care about what you or anyone else thinks about my grammar and/or spelling. I dont care enough to make sure its 100% proper for an anti-uber forum. I only care on places that matter, like contracts and financial /business documents etc. Thats when I go back and make sure ever i is dotted and every t is crossed. Sure not gonna do that for here!!! But once again you proved, regardless of my grammer, you clearly understand what I write.Otherwise how you even be able to formulate a response to jibberish? Smh. Just because you dont agree with my opinions, or mad because i dumbed down people who dont know or understand how pool payment works, dont try make up crap saying i cant spell or write proper grammar,again, stop reaching!!!


Then get off your high horse and stop condescending. You just make yourself look like a moron when you try to act smarter than other people while at the same time using the writing skills of an 8th-grader.


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> Then get off your high horse and stop condescending. You just make yourself look like a moron when you try to act smarter than other people while at the same time using the writing skills of an 8th-grader.


Go away dude. 8th grader huh? Still mad because i exposed you as not being bright huh? Suck it up. Move on, and stop jocking me. You cant understand 1 word I typed because my grammar sucks, but you had no problem replying to everything i typed clearly knowing what i said. Lying hypocrite, speed on

And congrats to you for being a super grammar writer on an anti-uber forum. How many cookies do you want??


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> You giving yourself way too much credit if you think I care about what you or anyone else thinks about my grammar and/or spelling. I dont care enough to make sure its 100% proper for an anti-uber forum. I only care on places that matter, like contracts and financial /business documents etc. Thats when I go back and make sure every i is dotted and every t is crossed. Sure not gonna do that for here!!! You care too much here,obviously I dont. But once again you proved, regardless of my grammer, you clearly understand what I write.Otherwise how you even be able to formulate a response to jibberish? Smh. Just because you dont agree with my opinions, or mad because i dumbed down people who dont know or understand how pool payment works, dont try make up crap saying i cant spell or write proper grammar,again, stop reaching!!!


And thank you for only responding to parts of my argument. Kind of reminiscent of the replies I got from uber's CSR geniuses.


----------



## GILD

I really cant understand how the irs puts up with the uber lies? seems they want their money, I guess not. Really only one gonna reel in uber is government or drivers acting on behalf of themselves and not uber at all.


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> Go away dude. 8th grader huh? Still mad because i exposed you as not being bright huh? Suck it up. Move on, and stop jocking me. You cant understand 1 word I type because my grammar sucks, but you had not problem replying to everything i typed clearly knowing what i said. Lying hypocrite, speed on


Haha, mad? Exposed? Please detail the exposition. I've explained my point in detail and it does include how uber has failed to divulge necessary info to the drivers which would equate fraud. You on the other hand have "claimed" that it has always been crystal clear without actually providing any argument other than "you should know uber would make a bigger profit with pool, why else would they even launch the service if profit was flat". I don't have access to uber's finances like the way they have access to mine.


----------



## Bart McCoy

GILD said:


> I bet your 1099 will show both pool charges in full on your 1099, therefore not only not paying drivers right, but also passing the xtra money they got onto YOUR tax bill, meaning your paying the tax on THEIR earnings that you received ZERO compensation for. Remember All Gross Fares (including pool) is on your 1099! therefore driver is actually losing money on a match pool because the minute they get in car, your being taxed on that Fare(the one you didnt get), with no additional mileage deduction and no compensation.
> 
> To clarify, the 2nd pax paid $12, you got none of that money, but it shows up on your 1099 under gross fares, and since uber paid you none of it.....


The keyword there is 'bet',which is no more than a hunch. I requested in this topic and the other topic chicabby made for someone to post PROOF that uber is doing this. Of course, no one had done this yet. Everybody is going on assumptions,no bueno


----------



## Rex8976

Bart McCoy



Bart McCoy said:


> Its similar to a bus driver. How odd would it be if a bus driver asked to receive the fares for all 82 of the passengers hes carrying.....................??????????????????


Spot on!

Except the bus making multiple stops is owned by a company or municipality.

Except the driver is paid an hourly wage, with benefits.

Except the driver is not financially responsible for maintenance.

Except the bus and driver are licensed and insured.

Except the bus is engineered and designed to make multiple stops and for multiple passengers.










Uber On!


----------



## Bart McCoy

Rex8976 said:


> Bart McCoy
> 
> Except the driver is paid an hourly wage, with benefits.
> 
> Except the bus is engineered and designed to make multiple stops and for multiple passengers.


Youre going off on a tangent and clearly missing the point,smh. This has nothing to do with independent contractor t vs employees (since all your examples referred to employee differences). The simple point you and everyone else that disagrees with me is missing is:

*The bus driver gets paid less than the fares so that the company can make more*

Obviously most people on here havent ran a business. But what Uber is doing is business 101. Folks are complaining about drivers not getting full fare of pax, when that goes against the bare basics of running a business!!!

PS: its just laughable that you think cars arent made to pick up and drop off passengers: WRONG. They are clearly equipped to do that by design up to the number of people it has seatbelts for, smh


----------



## Tim In Cleveland

Refuse "pool" requests. It's that simple. I'm not doing that crap unless Uber GUARANTEES I will make more total and at LEAST the same per mile driven and time taken. I've seen too many posts of drivers getting paid less than a dollar for a pool.


----------



## Rex8976

Bart McCoy



Bart McCoy said:


> *The bus driver gets paid less than the fares so that the company can make more*


Er, uh, also not paying for fuel, etc.










Uber On!


----------



## ninja warrior

Not paying your vendors is business 101, according to the gentleman named "Bart McCoy". Apparently his business ventures have all practiced some sort of fraud. It's like visa charging a customer $6 for a gallon of milk, showing the vendor it was sold for $3 and then charging the vendor 25 cents to process the payment.


----------



## Rex8976

Bart McCoy



Bart McCoy said:


> PS: its just laughable that you think cars arent made to pick up and drop off passengers: WRONG. They are clearly equipped to do that by design up to the number of people it has seatbelts for, smh


Spot On!

Show me a passenger car that you can WALK into, stand upright and find a seat.

FYI, I just purchased my 91st cab (over time, 12 current) and drove a bus for a while.

Beside the general screwing over by Uber, Pool IS the small bus designed to squeeze drivers of their last ounce of sanity and self respect.

Those that wish to go curb bumping for Evil, Inc., have at it. How anyone can be pro-Uber at this point is beyond me.

BTW, Bart, just messing with you.










Uber On!


----------



## Thehulk

I dont do uberpool no matter how high the surge is.
1-Uberpool passengers are super cheap
2-Uberpool passengers dont respect your vehicle.
3-With these rates uberpool is cheaper than taking the subway system

Why the hell are you going to uberpool at 3am. Come on seriously... no self respect

Uber on


----------



## player81

Has anyone tried dropping their Pool pax off then going for a joyride before ending the trip to rack up miles and time? Pax shouldn't care since they pay flat fare right?


----------



## Thehulk

Holy crao you do that and the passengers will rate you like -2 stars. They want the best service for less money. Uberpool passengers used to ask me if I have water or mints. I tell them NO and they do sell some at the store where you can buy some after I drop you off. Lmao... I dont take uberpool passengers no more. They just aggrevate me


----------



## player81

Thehulk said:


> Holy crao you do that and the passengers will rate you like -2 stars. They want the best service for less money. Uberpool passengers used to ask me if I have water or mints. I tell them NO and they do sell some at the store where you can buy some after I drop you off. Lmao... I dont take uberpool passengers no more. They just aggrevate me


The pax won't know since they've already been dropped off


----------



## Bart McCoy

Rex8976 said:


> Bart McCoy
> 
> Spot On!
> 
> Show me a passenger car that you can WALK into, stand upright and find a seat.
> 
> Those that wish to go curb bumping for Evil, Inc., have at it. How anyone can be pro-Uber at this point is beyond me.


I said cars are EQUIPPED to handle passengers, NOT designed: Big difference. But I mean if cars werent meant to put people in them, why in the world would they have more than 1 seat?????

Are you insinuating im pro-Uber? Obviously you haven't followed me enough on the board, and haven't read my post in the Advice section. People mistake me for explaining how things work (like pool), blaming drivers for their actions (like Kalamzoo shooter), and simply providing FACTS as me being pro-Uber. In other words, if I refuse to say anything bad about Uber, im pro-uber,smh. If my opinions disagree with other people about incidents Uber that doesn't show Uber in a good light, im pro-Uber.

Sad case up in here


----------



## Bart McCoy

Thehulk said:


> Holy crao you do that and the passengers will rate you like -2 stars. T


They probably wouldn't, since the main thing pax complain about is money. And you ghostriding doesn't add to their bill, only on X it does.



player81 said:


> The pax won't know since they've already been dropped off


They will know if they simply look in their app. It will still say "on trip",and their app will show you going wherever you are going without them


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield

Bart McCoy said:


> So once again you prove my point, it was known that pool was a ripoff since 2014.its almost mid 2016 and no hint of a Lawsuit yet.


Hint.....lawsuits happen when enough people are harmed....It may have been around since 14 but when did it roll out in more than one market. Still think there is no lawsuit up in Michigan Bart???....Even the freakin Driver/Killer is suing UBER!!!!


----------



## chi1cabby

110 posts in a thread by Bart on:


Bart McCoy said:


> "how does depreciation affect me financially, if i never sell the car"


*Math: $1.00 mile = $7.68 per hour at best.*


----------



## ninja warrior

chi1cabby said:


> 110 posts in a thread by Bart on:
> 
> *Math: $1.00 mile = $7.68 per hour at best.*
> 
> View attachment 33451


I think that's one of the FAQ's from drivers on the uber website. I'm guessing their response would be "It doesn't! Uber on!! Make more money!!!"


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

UberPartnerDennis said:


> IDK about others Ch1cabby ... but whatever you post is given full credibility by me....Because you come from a place of fairness and truth...keep up the good work bro


POST # 110/UberPartnerDennis: ...+1 !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

andaas said:


> Again, you assume everything righteous happens overnight? Many issues of corporate wrongdoing go on for several years before the issue is caught/identified, etc. For all we know, there are already private litigators gathering data on this issue and preparing a case (although unlikely).
> 
> It's possible that the payment parameters for Pool have been changed since the original launch. Maybe this skimming did not become as visible an issue until 2015.
> 
> There are too many factors.
> 
> Go drive another Pool ride why don't you, you seem to think everything is awesome.


POST # 112/andaas : The ONLY "Awe-
some" related to
The Often "On Ignore" Gentleman from
Waldorf, is when St. Comity goes "All
chi1cabby on" the "Contrarian from
Maryland".

Ron White: You can't fix "Stupid".



hackajar said:


> Check out the revised research! bit.ly/uberpoolscam


POST #132/hackajar: Link not working?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

chi1cabby said:


> *https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.aarnfdo5s*


POST #:135/chi1cabby : Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for
this Hyperlink to hackajar 's Revised
Stats in the Medium.com Article.

Great Work, hackajar !
Bison Admires. Bison Inspires !



Mitch J said:


> LOL


POST #:155/Mitch J: .....W T F ?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

NuberUber said:


> I tried to grab my girlfriend a ride on the Uner app the other night because she was having the same issue. It was really really early in the morning and she just wanted to get home but everytime she ordered an Uber it defaulted to Pool.
> 
> I grabbed her phone thinking she was obviously hitting something she shouldn't but couldn't get it to order an X car. It always prompted a "how many passengers?" Question that had choices 1-4 and when you answered 1 or 2 it would put you in a pool. I finally selected 4 pax just get an Uber X car.
> 
> I thought this was incredibly deceptive since unless I knew how to get around it, there would be no way to figure out how to order without pool and you would just be stuck. Sucks that the riders probably don't even realize. I'm pretty sure it definitely is area specific as well, since we were ordering from a "pool zone".


POST # 158/NuberUber: Thank You
for Posting
the Results of your Inadvertent Research.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

ninja warrior said:


> Good sir, before questioning my reading comprehension, please pay closer attention to your own writing.


POST # 166/ninja warrior: PLEASE, SIR!
Do NOT cast
Hyperbolic Aspersions about UPNF's
Notable "Cross to Bear". He NEVER lies
AND he is ALWAYS right.

Mentoring Bison: It's the Energy 
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆Vortex that he Inhabits !


----------



## Bart McCoy

chi1cabby said:


> 110 posts in a thread by Bart on:
> 
> 
> View attachment 33451


Which is how in some threads you argue with yourself smh.

You think you're a *know-it-all , * *king of this forum* , and *the messiah for Uber liberty*, and just upset that I exposed you for being loud and wrong on numerous occasions. Suck it up, and do more research before you hastily post anything you find on the internet negative about Uber !! Like your Kalazmoo criminal history topic, its been over a month and you still can't find out what his alleged felonies were!!!!

Move along please. Always following me,pulling up old history,you will never let anything go: That post you linked to is* over a year ago,something only a troll would do, at least stay up to date!!!*, just like its old news, a year late that you just realized pool is a ripoff. Sure I had some posts in there, but ohters had many posts as well. UberHammer had 80 posts in that same topic, but of course you don't call him out on that, because he sides with you right? You only let the board know my posts because of your hate for me. Just like recently, in the Kalamzoo post, casualahber* made 200 posts in one topic.* Did you call him out for that? Of course not.Why don't you tally up haberdash's replies in other topics. Oh wait, you won't, because he follows you like you are the leader on here. I already proved how you ignore people who do the same thing I do simply because they agree with your views. Once again I have exposed you and your one-sided ways


----------



## ninja warrior

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 166/ninja warrior: PLEASE, SIR!
> Do NOT cast
> Hyperbolic Aspersions about UPNF's
> Notable "Cross to Bear". He NEVER lies
> AND he is ALWAYS right.
> 
> Mentoring Bison: It's the Energy
> ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆Vortex that he Inhabits !


He also likes to ignore valid counter arguments when they are put forth. If this is the intellectual level of even 20% of the population, God bless Our Nation!


----------



## OdyUber

I accidentally took a Pool request yesterday from SoBe to MIA. 3 pax that started as close as 100 yards from each other and 1/4 mile away, with fares rated as Standard, 1.5x & 2.1x. the last pax was dropped off airport property by about 1.5 mile, before the others.

From what i can see in the partner website and in the app:
The Toll to the airport was .35, but each passenger apparently got billed .24 and I was reimbursed .72.
2 first pax paid for the same mileage, since they started and ended at strictly the same place (across the street), but they also paid for a detour to go grab the 3rd pax (3/4 mile extra), and the near destination re-route to drop the 3rd pax off (3 miles extra). It went up from 11.5 miles to 15.2 for them.
3rd pax only paid for her own 11.5 miles, since that section of the journey was uninterrupted. her far was 3.5 base + 3.9 surge +1.7 fee + .24 toll = 9.30 (i got to keep 5.81)
1st pax paid 7.53 base + 1.7 fee + .24 toll = 9.50 (I netted 5.89) 
2nd pax paid 6.15 base + 3.08 surge + 1.7 fee + .24 toll = 11.2 (I netted 7.16)

So, i made 18.89 net for a 15 mile run. A little less than if it was an XL ride, but not too horrible since i didn't have any downtime at either end before/after the trip and was able to haul an XL back downtown.

Things I wonder: did the system consider the 2nd pax actually the 3rd pax? that would explain the much higher base fare charged!


----------



## Tim In Cleveland

Thehulk said:


> Holy crao you do that and the passengers will rate you like -2 stars. They want the best service for less money. Uberpool passengers used to ask me if I have water or mints. I tell them NO and they do sell some at the store where you can buy some after I drop you off. Lmao... I dont take uberpool passengers no more. They just aggrevate me


I think you should never say "No, I don't have water/mints". You should only respond with "No, Uber refuses to pay for that". If they are obnoxious enough to mention drivers paying for it themselves say "Yeah, sometimes I buy that stuff out of my tip money, when I get some". You of course shit rate them upon exiting.


----------



## chi1cabby

OdyUber said:


> 3rd pax only paid





OdyUber said:


> 1st pax paid





OdyUber said:


> 2nd pax paid


No, those amounts are what you were paid *by Uber* for pax 1, 2 & 3.
As a Driver you really have No Idea what was paid *to Uber* by Pax 1, 2 & 3.

Please reread the *Medium post* by hackajar. The only way to find out what riders paid for their matched UberPool rides is to ask them what they were charged by Uber.


----------



## Kevin7889

Pretty soon uber will want you to put 2 pax in your trunk so you can now drive 6 ppl in your sedan


----------



## ninja warrior

Kevin7889 said:


> Pretty soon uber will want you to put 2 pax in your trunk so you can now drive 6 ppl in your sedan


They are going to start offering roof racks to drivers. Pax will be harnessed to the rack with the assistance of the weakest of twine and the service will be called "uber thrill kill".


----------



## Kevin7889

Alright 10 pax to 1 sedan


----------



## Rex8976

Kevin7889 said:


> Alright 10 pax to 1 sedan


----------



## Kevin7889

We're headed that way


----------



## SafeT

Kevin7889 said:


> Pretty soon uber will want you to put 2 pax in your trunk so you can now drive 6 ppl in your sedan


Apparently they already allow that.


----------



## Thehulk

OdyUber said:


> I accidentally took a Pool request yesterday from SoBe to MIA. 3 pax that started as close as 100 yards from each other and 1/4 mile away, with fares rated as Standard, 1.5x & 2.1x. the last pax was dropped off airport property by about 1.5 mile, before the others.
> 
> From what i can see in the partner website and in the app:
> The Toll to the airport was .35, but each passenger apparently got billed .24 and I was reimbursed .72.
> 2 first pax paid for the same mileage, since they started and ended at strictly the same place (across the street), but they also paid for a detour to go grab the 3rd pax (3/4 mile extra), and the near destination re-route to drop the 3rd pax off (3 miles extra). It went up from 11.5 miles to 15.2 for them.
> 3rd pax only paid for her own 11.5 miles, since that section of the journey was uninterrupted. her far was 3.5 base + 3.9 surge +1.7 fee + .24 toll = 9.30 (i got to keep 5.81)
> 1st pax paid 7.53 base + 1.7 fee + .24 toll = 9.50 (I netted 5.89)
> 2nd pax paid 6.15 base + 3.08 surge + 1.7 fee + .24 toll = 11.2 (I netted 7.16)
> 
> So, i made 18.89 net for a 15 mile run. A little less than if it was an XL ride, but not too horrible since i didn't have any downtime at either end before/after the trip and was able to haul an XL back downtown.
> 
> Things I wonder: did the system consider the 2nd pax actually the 3rd pax? that would explain the much higher base fare charged!


This week I refused all uberpool rides. I noticed I have 1/4 tank of gas more in my car netting the same amount of take home pay. My vehicle is a xl and takes more to maintain as well as car payments, etc... uberfool is what it should be called...


----------



## NuberUber

Thehulk said:


> This week I refused all uberpool rides. I noticed I have 1/4 tank of gas more in my car netting the same amount of take home pay. My vehicle is a xl and takes more to maintain as well as car payments, etc... uberfool is what it should be called...


Mr. T says "I pity the fool that drives the Uber pool!"


----------



## LEAFdriver

NuberUber said:


> Mr. T says "I pity the fool that drives the Uber pool!"


Gotta add the graphics with that quote!


----------



## JaxUbermom

Fix that to say drive for Pool... But still cute. Maybe we could hire him as a spokesperson for drivers.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Bart McCoy said:


> Which is how in some threads you argue with yourself smh.
> 
> You think you're a *know-it-all , * *king of this forum* , and *the messiah for Uber liberty*, and just upset that I exposed you for being loud and wrong on numerous occasions. Suck it up, and do more research before you hastily post anything you find on the internet negative about Uber !! Like your Kalazmoo criminal history topic, its been over a month and you still can't find out what his alleged felonies were!!!!
> 
> Move along please. Always following me,pulling up old history,you will never let anything go: That post you linked to is* over a year ago,something only a troll would do, at least stay up to date!!!*, just like its old news, a year late that you just realized pool is a ripoff. Sure I had some posts in there, but ohters had many posts as well. UberHammer had 80 posts in that same topic, but of course you don't call him out on that, because he sides with you right? You only let the board know my posts because of your hate for me. Just like recently, in the Kalamzoo post, casualahber* made 200 posts in one topic.* Did you call him out for that? Of course not.Why don't you tally up haberdash's replies in other topics. Oh wait, you won't, because he follows you like you are the leader on here. I already proved how you ignore people who do the same thing I do simply because they agree with your views. Once again I have exposed you and your one-sided ways


POST # 199/Bart McCoy : I only reply
here only because
Other UPNF Members who disagree with
YOU need to be aware of when your Disin-
genuosity morphs into Libelous Hyperbolic
Prevarication. This afternoon I went back
to the 21 FEB "FEATURED" News Thread :

https://uberpeople.net/posts/849319

to Verify that YOUR CLAIM of my having
"made 200 Posts" is a Bald-Faced Untruth
and symbolic of the Extent to which you
will Badmouth Any who Oppose You.

In descending order of the Quantity
of Posts/Replies in that 740 Message
Thread :
Bart McCoy ..............................80
Casuale Haberdasher ...........44
tohunt4me..............................35
UberBlackDriverLA ...............26
DriverX.......................................25
Beachbum in a cornfield.......24
LA Cabbie....................................20
Michael - Cleveland ................17
TwoFiddyMile ..........................17
Jack Pavlov ...............................16
Just_in ........................................13
backstreets-trans ....................11

I suppose that in an Unrealistically
Ideal UPNF World [43,893 Official
Members] this Thread WOULD have
had 740 Contributors. Since it isn't,
and it didn't, I wonder if Taking Your
Own Advice would sooth your Aggri-
eved Ego : just put me on "Ignore".
I will "try" to do the same.


----------



## ninja warrior

^^This guy does shake his head a lot. Tweaking maybe?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

ninja warrior said:


> ^^This guy does shake his head a lot. Tweaking maybe?


POST # 217/ninja warrior : He HAS
made NUMEROUS
NotableNose-Tweakings just between
St. Comity and MyOwnSelf. We largely
ignore his Counter-Productive Contrar-
ianism, except for when he goes off the
Deep End and Fellow Members need to
Witness Service of a Reality Check so
as not be duped by his glib facade.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Kevin7889 said:


> Pretty soon uber will want you to put 2 pax in your trunk so you can now drive 6 ppl in your sedan


Of course they will. And force you to install the seatbelt mod kit at your cost. And kids WILL choose this option. They do it for festivals!! "Please move all the way to the front.."


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Bart McCoy said:


> Which is how in some threads you argue with yourself smh. You think you're a *know-it-all , * *king of this forum* , and *the messiah for Uber liberty...*


Is it just me...because I really don't know what you girls are feuding about? Did someone pull someone else's hair or steal their boyfriend?


----------



## ninja warrior

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 217/ninja warrior : He HAS
> made NUMEROUS
> NotableNose-Tweakings just between
> St. Comity and MyOwnSelf. We largely
> ignore his Counter-Productive Contrar-
> ianism, except for when he goes off the
> Deep End and Fellow Members need to
> Witness Service of a Reality Check so
> as not be duped by his glib facade.


I will keep that in mind and, as the gentleman in question had put it , "stop jocking" the simpleton.


----------



## Greguzzi

UberEffedMe said:


> Uber just release UberDrag, it's cheaper than UberPool


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Bart McCoy said:


> What is there to be surprised about? Did drivers really think they would get paid double the fare (1 for each different pax party) for pool rides? NO. And uber tells you this upfront,so no surprise.
> 
> When you do a pool ride, there's no secret as to how and how much you get paid. They clearly have a pool rate schedule for every market. No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


As usual - you completely miss the point as documented by the author of the expose: Uber claims to not be a transportation company, but rather a provider of "leads" to drivers. They claim that the relationship between the driver and the rider is a direct one and they are not an intermediary, but rather only a third party payor. That is what our contracts say. But in reality, they set one fare that THEY charge the rider and another rate at which THEY compensate drivers. What WE agreed to with Uber is that they can set 'recommended fares', and charge us a % of THAT fare for use of their app. In UberPOOL, they do not do that.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Michael - Cleveland said:


> As usual - you completely miss the point as documented by the author of the expose: Uber claims to not be a transportation company, but rather a provider of "leads" to drivers. They claim that the relationship between the driver and the rider is a direct one and they are not an intermediary, but rather only a third party payor. That is what our contracts say. But in reality, they set one fare that THEY charge the rider and another rate at which THEY compensate drivers. What WE agreed to with Uber is that they can set 'recommended fares', and charge us a % of THAT fare for use of their app. In UberPOOL, they do not do that.


Lol you really went deep into the article. But what I said is still true. Regardless of:

"They claim that the relationship between the driver and the rider is a direct one and they are not an intermediary, but rather only a third party payor. That is what our contracts say"

What I said still stands. You know how you will get paid, before you take the pool,because they tell you how much you get paid via the pool schedule. Isn't that 100% true?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Bart McCoy said:


> What I said still stands. You know how you will get paid, before you take the pool,because they tell you how much you get paid via the pool schedule. Isn't that 100% true?


What I gathered form the expose is 'no' - you have no idea what you will be paid because they don't publish either schedule - they provide the rider with a fare estimate - and provide the driver with no information. But I don't know that as a first-hand fact because we do not have UberPOOL here - and I've never experienced it. What I do know as a fact is what our contracts with Uber say - and that Uber does not abide by the terms of that agreement.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Michael - Cleveland said:


> What I gathered form the expose is 'no' - you have no idea what you will be paid because they don't publish either schedule - they provide the rider with a fare estimate - and provide the driver with no information. But I don't know that as a first-hand fact because we do not have UberPOOL here - and I've never experienced it. What I do know as a fact is what our contracts with Uber say - and that Uber does not abide by the terms of that agreement.


What I said is 100%. We do have pool here, but its pretty much the same for every market. You said "you have no idea what you will be paid" now that's not true. As long as you know how to do math, you will know how much you get paid. Meaning, you will be paid by the miles you drive, and the distance. If UberPool is in your market, they also include a fee schedule (just like the fee schedule they provide for UberX). So it is 100% true: before you accept a pool, you know how much a mile and min you will be paid, as well as the base fare pick up charge. And in your response is a common error that people are using when arguing this issue: you used the word "rider". In the pool fee schedule, it doesn't ever mention anything about a rider estimate or how much rider pays. That's pretty irrelevant too because they clearly explains to you how YOU will get paid.

I don't know of any market in the US that doesn't have a pool fee schedule. If so, please name the city so I can go to uber site and indeed see if its not listed. It would only be in these markets, that one would have a case. But I don't think any market exists like that: please prove me wrong

So again, tell me how one doesn't 100% know how they get paid, and how much they will get paid before they accept a pool ride? Without me seeing you take a pool in your market, as long as I can see the pool fee schedule, and you tell me your min and miles driven, I can tell you exactly how much gross you will get paid there, all the way from me sitting in Maryland....


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Bart McCoy said:


> And in your response is a common error that people are using when arguing this issue: you used the word "rider". In the pool fee schedule, it doesn't ever mention anything about a rider estimate or how much rider pays. That's pretty irrelevant too because they clearly explains to you how YOU will get paid.


Is there a Uber-Driver agreement, unique to drivers in markets with UberPOOL, that says the rider is NOT the direct client of the driver? If there is, then you're right. If not, then Uber is acting in violation of their own Driver Agreement.


> I don't know of any market in the US that doesn't have a pool fee schedule. If so, please name the city so I can go to uber site and indeed see if its not listed. It would only be in these markets, that one would have a case. But I don't think any market exists like that: please prove me wrong


Well, well don't have one here - but we don't have UberPOOL (thankfully)


> So again, tell me how one doesn't 100% know how they get paid, and how much they will get paid before they accept a pool ride? Without me seeing you take a pool in your market, as long as I can see the pool fee schedule, and you tell me your min and miles driven, I can tell you exactly how much gross you will get paid there, all the way from me sitting in Maryland....


Ok!


----------



## Bart McCoy

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Is there a Uber-Driver agreement, unique to drivers in markets with UberPOOL, that says the rider is NOT the direct client of the driver? If there is, then you're right. If not, then Uber is acting in violation of their own Driver Agreement.


I will say "no"
Which then makes me say:
what's the hold up with the lawsuit?

However, that pool fee schedule clearly tells you how much you will get paid. That's why I said no one taking pool should be surprised.

Plus, agreements can be updated,amended and changed all the time. Who knows, they could have snuck that in on one of the addendums they do. How many drivers you think truly read all the small fine print? That includes me, because I dont,and I know im not alone


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Bart McCoy said:


> Plus, agreements can be updated,amended and changed all the time. Who knows, they could have snuck that in on one of the addendums they do. How many drivers you think truly read all the small fine print? That includes me, because I dont,and I know im not alone


So you think NO ONE reads the agreements because YOU don't? Where's the lawsuit? It'll come. Not many attorneys drive Uber. But there are enough lawyers out there now that see the deep pockets and are looking for ways to being class-actions and they will eventually collect the information they need to bring this to the courts, imo.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Michael - Cleveland said:


> So you think NO ONE reads the agreements because YOU don't? Where's the lawsuit? It'll come. Not many attorneys drive Uber. But there are enough lawyers out there now that see the deep pockets and are looking for ways to being class-actions and they will eventually collect the information they need to bring this to the courts, imo.


Okay. We'll wait. Its only been 1.5 years since pool was in effect, guess these things take a while...


----------



## secretadmirer

It's nice to see Bart and Mikey getting along. With all the other uber lawsuits pending, you're right, it might take some time.

_Shannon_ Liss-Riordan "likes this".


----------



## hackajar

Bart McCoy said:


> What is there to be surprised about? Did drivers really think they would get paid double the fare (1 for each different pax party) for pool rides? NO. And uber tells you this upfront,so no surprise.
> 
> When you do a pool ride, there's no secret as to how and how much you get paid. They clearly have a pool rate schedule for every market. No where on that schedule does it say you get paid full fare for each pax. Anybody who thought that needs to learn to read the fine print


I have to ask Bart to come back to this statement. Exactly where in the TOS for drivers does it spell this out? Please, cite the lines of agreement that explain uberPOOL payout is a completely different format than uberX. I have gone through it line by line, and nothing in there clearly states that uberPOOL is metered differently than uberX, uberXL, etc. The only uberPOOL reference is the addendum document which spells out miles/min. rate difference from uberX, that line does NOT say it is metered for the entire POOL regardless of how many pax use the POOL.


----------



## JimS

According to THIS article, everyone here is wrong, evidence be damned. Uber only collected $48 and the driver kept $35 for a 55-minute pool drive.

Of course, that's what Uber told the NY Times...

Uber drivers are netting $35/hour in SF with Pool!


----------



## ChortlingCrison

Bart McCoy said:


> Okay. We'll wait. Its only been 1.5 years since pool was in effect, guess these things take a while...


Of course they take a while. Uber is so backed up with lawsuits (of all kinds) that it will eventually get to this one. That is if uber hasn't been ousted.


----------



## andaas

JimS said:


> According to THIS article, everyone here is wrong, evidence be damned. Uber only collected $48 and the driver kept $35 for a 55-minute pool drive.
> 
> Of course, that's what Uber told the NY Times...
> 
> Uber drivers are netting $35/hour in SF with Pool!


Of course, in reality, Uber probably collected $83, paid the driver $35, and kept $48 for themselves.


----------



## Bart McCoy

hackajar said:


> I have to ask Bart to come back to this statement. Exactly where in the TOS for drivers does it spell this out? Please, cite the lines of agreement that explain uberPOOL payout is a completely different format than uberX. I have gone through it line by line, and nothing in there clearly states that uberPOOL is metered differently than uberX, uberXL, etc. The only uberPOOL reference is the addendum document which spells out miles/min. rate difference from uberX, that line does NOT say it is metered for the entire POOL regardless of how many pax use the POOL.


My point was simply: if the pool fee schedule says you get paid $1.05/mile, no one in their right mind should be surprised to find out....you guessed it....that after a pool trip they will get paid $1.05/mile................ LoL



ChortlingCrison said:


> Of course they take a while. Uber is so backed up with lawsuits (of all kinds) that it will eventually get to this one. That is if uber hasn't been ousted.


Uber being backed up has nothing to do with it. What are you saying, one has to wait until only 3 lawsuits instead of 33 are pending against Uber to file? NO. People could have filed 1 day after UberPool was started over a year ago. "It takes time" is such a poor excuse for something that people claim to be an OBVIOUS breach of contract. People are taking thousands of pools a day, for over 365 days. How is something that is being done (taking pool rides) a zillion times since 2014, something that takes so much time to bring a lawsuit about? I don't get it


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> My point was simply: if the pool fee schedule says you get paid $1.05/mile, no one in their right mind should be surprised to find out....you guessed it....that after a pool trip they will get paid $1.05/mile................ LoL
> 
> Uber being backed up has nothing to do with it. What are you saying, one has to wait until only 3 lawsuits instead of 33 are pending against Uber to file? NO. People could have filed 1 day after UberPool was started over a year ago. "It takes time" is such a poor excuse for something that people claim to be an OBVIOUS breach of contract. People are taking thousands of pools a day, for over 365 days. How is something that is being done (taking pool rides) a zillion times since 2014, something that takes so much time to bring a lawsuit about? I don't get it


This guy is trying to argue that what uber has been doing is in no way illegal or a breach of contract because no one has filed a lawsuit yet. Bravo!


----------



## Bart McCoy

ninja warrior said:


> This guy is trying to argue that what uber has been doing is in no way illegal or a breach of contract because no one has filed a lawsuit yet. Bravo!


Another case of not comprehending what I wrote.
I have been said, if its illegal,lawsuit needs to have been filed a year ago.
I have been said, a COURT would need to determine if the verbiage in the original contract shows if Uber is breaking the law or contract.
Why wait and continue to let Uber do "illegal" activities for years and years? It takes time is a very poor excuse.


----------



## ninja warrior

[/QUOTE]


Bart McCoy said:


> Another case of not comprehending of what I wrote.
> I have been said, if its illegal,lawsuit needs to be filed a year ago.
> I have been said, a COURT would need to determine if the verbage in the original contract shows if Uber is breaking the law or contract.
> Why wait and continue to let Uber to "illegal" activities for years and years? It takes time is a very poor excuse.


What the fudge did you just write?


----------



## chi1cabby

JimS said:


> According to THIS article, everyone here is wrong, evidence be damned. Uber only collected $48 and the driver kept $35 for a 55-minute pool drive.


*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/715263709086490625*


















*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/715286692723343363*


----------



## Bart McCoy

What the fudge did you just write?[/QUOTE]

Its in english. Copy and paste into googles english-to-jibber-jabber translator so you'll know what I said


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> What the fudge did you just write?


Its in english. Copy and paste into googles english-to-jibber-jabber translator so you'll know what I said[/QUOTE]
So I translate it from jibber jabber to English,right? You really are a simpleton.


----------



## JimS

chi1cabby said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/715263709086490625*


$6 minimum fare ride x 5 passengers is a minimum of $30 fare for Uber. They say they charged $48. Good on then. Driver only gets ONE pick up fee of $2 (less 20%) plus the rates quoted above. Not for each person, but for the single, contiguous ride. On the $6.00 minimum, we know they keep $1.50 + $0.90, so that's $2.40 for each ride they keep, or $12.00 MORE than the driver gets - at minimum fare. We know that Uber took in $48, though, and the driver really only made $16.60. Uber profits $31.40


----------



## Bart McCoy

JimS said:


> $6 minimum fare ride x 5 passengers is a minimum of $30 fare for Uber. They say they charged $48. Good on then. Driver only gets ONE pick up fee of $2 (less 20%) plus the rates quoted above. Not for each person, but for the single, contiguous ride. On the $6.00 minimum, we know they keep $1.50 + $0.90, so that's $2.40 for each ride they keep, or $12.00 MORE than the driver gets - at minimum fare. We know that Uber took in $48, though, and the driver really only made $16.60. Uber profits $31.40












I think we knew Uber was ripping drivers off since post #1


----------



## JimS

I thought you were defending Uber. I know how this thread started. I added the article that was published yesterday, today. It's further proof that Uber is lying and doesn't care about their drivers. I'm not late, but I'm certainly relevant.


----------



## hackajar

Bart McCoy said:


> Another case of not comprehending what I wrote.
> I have been said, if its illegal,lawsuit needs to have been filed a year ago.
> I have been said, a COURT would need to determine if the verbiage in the original contract shows if Uber is breaking the law or contract.
> Why wait and continue to let Uber do "illegal" activities for years and years? It takes time is a very poor excuse.


1) Just because there is not a case, does not mean there won't be one.
2) Support (both online and in person) still do not explain the POOL is metered differently, as recent as last Thursday, I still had an in person support center explain that each pax fare goes to driver. How are drivers supposed to have your interpretation of TOS, when the support does not even acknowledge it that way?
3) You STILL have not explained how you jumped to the conclusion that the POOL rate in addendum clearly states that it is for the entire POOL trip, and not per pax, like all other services. What line of TOS supports your argument that partners are dumb and do not know how to read a contract?


----------



## Bart McCoy

JimS said:


> I thought you were defending Uber. I know how this thread started. I added the article that was published yesterday, today. It's further proof that Uber is lying and doesn't care about their drivers. I'm not late, but I'm certainly relevant.


I actually said, that people should already know pool is a ripoff,BEFORE they even take their first pool ride. Because the pool fee schedule lets you know this....



hackajar said:


> 1) Just because there is not a case, does not mean there won't be one.
> 2) Support (both online and in person) still do not explain the POOL is metered differently, as recent as last Thursday, I still had an in person support center explain that each pax fare goes to driver. How are drivers supposed to have your interpretation of TOS, when the support does not even acknowledge it that way?
> 3) You STILL have not explained how you jumped to the conclusion that the POOL rate in addendum clearly states that it is for the entire POOL trip, and not per pax, like all other services. What line of TOS supports your argument that partners are dumb and do not know how to read a contract?


1) I never said it wouldnt happen. Why in the world would I even say something like that? anything is possible, so of course it can happen in the future. Thank you captain obvious
2) Stop with the metered stuff. Lets be real. Even on regular UberX before pool even exists, folks do not think "I get paid what the pax pay",but instead, they actually think I get paid $1/mile and 20cent/min(whatever the market is). Pool works the exact same way.!
3) Couple things, if pool paid out the way you would like it to, there would be no point in UberPool, at all. Uber would have to charge pax regular fare,and NOBODY will do that since they would be sharing a ride. So off the definition of pool alone, you should know something had to give, to even make this feasible for a business. But most folks are clueless that businesses operatre for a profit, so I guess I have to give them a pass......But again, MAKES NO SENSE FOR POOL TO OPERATE the way you are defending it to operate. NONE. And yes, I would say partners are dumb, if they continue to take pool, knowing that they aren't getting paid for each pax in their car. Do you call drivers smart for knowingly getting ripped off? smh How much longer will drivers continue to obviously get ripped off before a lawsuit? I don't get it


----------



## ChortlingCrison

Well I'm a little confused by the math, but it's clear that uberpool is just another way of screwing over the drivers.


----------



## hackajar

Bart McCoy Everything you have said has nothing to do with contracts, and everything to do with conjecture. Thank you for the clarification!


----------



## Uber-Doober

chi1cabby said:


> *Is Uber Skimming off the top?
> By hackajar
> 
> https://medium.com/@hackajar/is-uber-skimming-off-the-top-f17632ed0e3e#.mpme01xge*


^^^
Absolutely incredible!
Sinister, actually.


----------



## ChortlingCrison

hackajar said:


> Bart McCoy Everything you have said has nothing to do with contracts, and everything to do with conjecture. Thank you for the clarification!


 Uber is blameless in any scenario, according to Bart.


----------



## Bart McCoy

hackajar said:


> Bart McCoy Everything you have said has nothing to do with contracts, and everything to do with conjecture. Thank you for the clarification!


But with no lawsuit all you doing is yapping, meanwhile in real life, to this day people are getting paid for every pool ride according to my "conjecture", FACT!They are only getting paid double, in their Dreams!



ChortlingCrison said:


> Uber is blameless in any scenario, according to Bart.


As if y'all are any better: never blame the driver, always Uber in any scenario .

So call us even


----------



## ninja warrior

Complacency and apathy are conditions that are not exclusive to uber drivers, check out today's society as a whole. It will be a while until people who actually have the drive and desire to affect change get involved. It will happen, maybe a year from now, but that's a general reflection on the total involvement we as citizens have in this world.


----------



## ninja warrior

Bart McCoy said:


> But with no lawsuit all you doing is yapping, meanwhile in real life, to this day people are getting paid for every pool ride according to my "conjecture", FACT!They are only getting paid double, in their Dreams!
> 
> As if y'all are any better: never blame the driver, always Uber in any scenario .
> 
> So call us even


Victim shaming/blaming? Do we shame/blame the investors who get robbed in a Ponzi scheme? Women who get date raped? Would you like these people to hold and share any responsibility in the ill deeds of others?


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## JimS

Bart, I don't think that there is anything disputable about the conversation, and I'm sorry but you are wrong. The partner agreement specifically indicates that you get paid based on a deduction of your passenger's bill, NOT for a single stream drive. Unless you can prove otherwise, let it go. Uber even lied to the New York Times telling them that the drivers get paid as indicated by the partner agreement.

So, unless you can pull a page from Uber that says that the driver shall only be paid as if it were one single trip, quit arguing the point.


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## ChortlingCrison

JimS said:


> Bart, I don't think that there is anything disputable about the conversation, and I'm sorry but you are wrong. The partner agreement specifically indicates that you get paid based on a deduction of your passenger's bill, NOT for a single stream drive. Unless you can prove otherwise, let it go. Uber even lied to the New York Times telling them that the drivers get paid as indicated by the partner agreement.
> 
> So, unless you can pull a page from Uber that says that the driver shall only be paid as if it were one single trip, quit arguing the point.


 Bart is in what is called "uber denial". For some reason he rigorously defends uber no matter what the scenario. When in doubt he'll say "read the terms and agreement". (which is a pointless tautology)


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## Bart McCoy

JimS said:


> Bart, I don't think that there is anything disputable about the conversation, and I'm sorry but you are wrong. The partner agreement specifically indicates that you get paid based on a deduction of your passenger's bill, NOT for a single stream drive. Unless you can prove otherwise, let it go. Uber even lied to the New York Times telling them that the drivers get paid as indicated by the partner agreement.
> 
> So, unless you can pull a page from Uber that says that the driver shall only be paid as if it were one single trip, quit arguing the point.


Im wrong? Then once again you havent comprehended anything that ive typed. I clearly said Uber may be wrong but only a court will determine that! Not you! But You and other gurus here are telling me im wrong, YET, Uber is still doing pool the way I explained to this day! (via the pool fee schedule). So its pointless to tell me im wrong ,because who cares if you're right, when Uber is still paying people the way I said!! So either YOU it let go or file a lawsuit, otherwise uber will continue to do what I said since the first day they started UberPool!!! FACT!


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## JimS

I can't sue. UberPool isn't in my market.
(thank goodness!)

But just because they haven't been sued doesn't mean they're not wrong. It means they haven't been forced to right their wrong. And with most drivers in binding arbitration, it's not gonna be easy to find the right people to sue.


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## JimS

chi1cabby said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/715263709086490625*


Any more tweets from @fmanjoo? I don't twit, so if he's ready to amend his article, let us know.


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## chi1cabby

JimS said:


> Any more tweets from @fmanjoo?


Farhad is on safari somewhere. He wrote the UberPool article before he left for his vacation.


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## uberbrother

Every driver should read this thread thoroughly and full understand how Uber Is paying you on Uberpool rides. DO NOT ACCEPT UBERPOOL REQUESTS>


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## Casuale Haberdasher

Thehulk said:


> This week I refused all uberpool rides. I noticed I have 1/4 tank of gas more in my car netting the same amount of take home pay. My vehicle is a xl and takes more to maintain as well as car payments, etc... uberfool is what it should be called...


POST # 210/Thehulk : Apparently you've
missed my
Coining of the term #[F]UberFool...NOT
LOST on the Maker of this Painfully
Accurate YouTUBE :

Http://uberpeople.net/posts/792915

BTW: KUDOS TO Ziggy and Jay Dean !


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## Greguzzi

Bart McCoy said:


> My point was simply: if the pool fee schedule says you get paid $1.05/mile, no one in their right mind should be surprised to find out....you guessed it....that after a pool trip they will get paid $1.05/mile................ LoL
> 
> Uber being backed up has nothing to do with it. What are you saying, one has to wait until only 3 lawsuits instead of 33 are pending against Uber to file? NO. People could have filed 1 day after UberPool was started over a year ago. "It takes time" is such a poor excuse for something that people claim to be an OBVIOUS breach of contract. People are taking thousands of pools a day, for over 365 days. How is something that is being done (taking pool rides) a zillion times since 2014, something that takes so much time to bring a lawsuit about? I don't get it


If you're promised $1.05/mile, it should be $1.05/mile/rider. Who would be surprised to learn that Uber is collecting at least that from every rider?


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## Greguzzi

Bart McCoy said:


> Im wrong? Then once again you havent comprehended anything that ive typed. I clearly said Uber may be wrong but only a court will determine that! Not you! But You and other gurus here are telling me im wrong, YET, Uber is still doing pool the way I explained to this day! (via the pool fee schedule). So its pointless to tell me im wrong ,because who cares if you're right, when Uber is still paying people the way I said!! So either YOU it let go or file a lawsuit, otherwise uber will continue to do what I said since the first day they started UberPool!!! FACT!


LOL.

Ubershill: The new 'bot service from Uber that pays drivers to obfuscate on forums! Earn more! Drive less! Help us f**k over your fellow drivers!


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## Bart McCoy

anybody have a clue on when the pool lawsuit will be filed? im trying to get all this back pay yall say im missing out on....


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## df60532

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> He HAS
> made NUMEROUS
> NotableNose-Tweakings just between
> St. Comity and MyOwnSelf. We largely
> ignore his Counter-Productive Contrar-
> ianism, except for when he goes off the
> Deep End and Fellow Members need to
> Witness Service of a Reality Check so
> as not be duped by his glib facade.


Huh?
It's easier to read Ralph Waldo Emerson....


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## Casuale Haberdasher

df60532 said:


> Huh?
> It's easier to read Ralph Waldo Emerson....


POST # 264/df60532: Irrespective of the
Degree of Difficulty
Involved...I see Snidely Whiplash and
Dudley Doright in YOUR Avatar. Bart
would go on for weeks to dispute that!

More succinctly, as far as General
Understandability AND "Keeping an
Audience" :
Casuale Haberdasher : Followers : 44
Bart McCoy ...................: Followers : 11
df60532...........................: Follower...: 01

Principal Bison: Thus endeth The Lesson.


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## Bart McCoy

im sure 43 of those followers are still trying to unscramble every post you've made since they first followed you.............


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## Tenzo

TwoFiddyMile said:


> My bet is the lost pants reveals a little tiny dinky.


Why are you obsessed with Travis' 'dinky' ?


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## MajJGrant

So when Uber adds riders automatically, theb all we have to do is call the rider, explain that their trip will be cancelled fue to Uber not wanting to pay us properly, and tell thembthey need to re-order another Uber, then cancel the added pool rider.



Drive777 said:


> Good point. If Uber operated the way Bart described, they should issue 1099-MISC's. That way they could charge the pax whatever they want, and pay the driver whatever they want according to a set fee schedule.
> 
> But to avoid appearances of being a transportation company, or in any way being connected with its partners, Uber has opted to define itself as nothing but a "payment processor" of which the entire amount paid by passengers is considered the driver's income. From this gross amount, Uber takes its commission and fees. That won't work on UberPool however, because the driver fee schedule, which is a reflection of gross amounts processed through the payment processor (Uber) cannot be specifically defined. It is variable based on the number of pool rides a driver picks up between first point A and final point Z.
> 
> Uber wants to have it both ways. Control the driver's pay and thoroughly disconnect it from the value of the service paid by riders, but then tell the driver his income consists 100% of what the rider pays, subject to a set rate and minus certain fees agreed upon in a fee schedule.
> 
> This is doublespeak at its finest.


Looks like a tax scam. We get taxed based on the rider's are charfed, not what we are paid. This highly unethical and criminal.


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## Shangsta

MajJGrant said:


> So when Uber adds riders automatically, theb all we have to do is call the rider, explain that their trip will be cancelled fue to Uber not wanting to pay us properly, and tell thembthey need to re-order another Uber, then cancel the added pool rider.


Terrible idea

A) you are giving the first pax who ordered pool an x ride at a discount rate.

B) your cancel rate will sky rocket.


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## MajJGrant

Shangsta said:


> Terrible idea
> 
> A) you are giving the first pax who ordered pool an x ride at a discount rate.
> 
> B) your cancel rate will sky rocket.


I'm not worried about that. I rarely cancel plus, I don't know if you noticed Uber usage trends or not, but In San Francisco uber pool usage is way down. Most people want Uber X. They don't want to sate the ride with strangers.


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## ChortlingCrison

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 264/df60532: Irrespective of the
> Degree of Difficulty
> Involved...I see Snidely Whiplash and
> Dudley Doright in YOUR Avatar. Bart
> would go on for weeks to dispute that!
> 
> More succinctly, as far as General
> Understandability AND "Keeping an
> Audience" :
> Casuale Haberdasher : Followers : 44
> Bart McCoy ...................: Followers : 11
> df60532...........................: Follower...: 01
> 
> Principal Bison: Thus endeth The Lesson.


That's a very interesting point Bison.


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## Shangsta

MajJGrant said:


> I'm not worried about that. I rarely cancel plus, I don't know if you noticed Uber usage trends or not, but In San Francisco uber pool usage is way down. Most people want Uber X. They don't want to sate the ride with strangers.


Why would pax take x when you give them an x ride at a pool price.


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## UberLaLa

MajJGrant said:


> I'm not worried about that. I rarely cancel plus, I don't know if you noticed Uber usage trends or not, but In San Francisco uber pool usage is way down. Most people want Uber X. They don't want to sate the ride with strangers.


Pool usage is way up in L.A.


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## johndoe12345678

Does Uberpool in NYC have the same breakdown as Uberx ($2.55+$0.35/min+$1.75/mile)?


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## Trump Economics

Revert to your arbitration agreement and have a nice day


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