# What Uber ACTUALLY pays its drivers/Definitive Proof they're lying to our faces.



## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

Hello All,

I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?

I did some quick calculations concerning what we get paid and came up with definitive proof that Uber is straight up lying to us. We do not get 80% of the fare. Actually, effectively speaking it is mathematically _impossible _to get 80% of the fare. To do this we start with a few plot points. Here are samples of what we earn and the effective rate Uber actually takes after Uber takes their $1, then 20% after that.

X$ Y%
$4 , 40
$5 , 36
$6 , 33.33333
$7 , 31.42857
$8 , 30
$9 , 28.88889
$10 , 28
$11 , 27.27273
$12 , 26.66667
$13 , 26.15385
$14 , 25.71429
$15 , 25.33333
$16 , 25
$17 , 24.70588
$18 , 24.44444
$19 , 24.21053
$20 , 24

X = Total fare that we and the rider sees.
Y = Uber's effective percentage take.

As you can see, Uber takes more than 20% the smaller the fare is. It takes up to 40% at the lowest end of the rides, or $4.

Using these points, we can compile the formula for the effective rate Uber actually receives on each ride.

I arrived at this through the following equations:

Our Earnings = ((x-1).8), where X is total fare

Plug that in to a percentage ----> (1 - ((x-1).8))100

The simplified formula on what Uber's actual percentage take per ride dependent on the amount of the ride,

Y = (20X +80)/X
where X = total fare
_
Or expressed in Calculus terms: _

_







_

Graphed out looks like this:










Now this is the shitty part, as if there wasn't any already. By definition, a limit in calculus is what the graphed line gets CLOSE TO, but never ACTUALLY reaches. You can test this by plugging in 150 to the formula, which gives you:

X= $150 = total fare

Y = (20X +80)/X

Y = (20(150) +80)/150 = 20.5333333

Hell plug in $400

X= $400 = total fare

Y = (20X +80)/X

Y = (20(400) +80)/400 = 20.2

And it goes on and on. The higher the fare, the closer you can get to an effective 20% fare you pay Uber. But you never actually mathematically reach it. In fact, it is almost impossible to truly get 80% of the total fare for Uber will always take more than that 20% due to the way their current pay structure is set up.

So when Uber says, "our drivers making 5-20% of the fare" they're lying. The proof is in the math.


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## Tommyo (Aug 18, 2014)

I agree with that trend line - you might be right on. The 80/20 rule is followed - the one that says Uber only takes 20 % of your fare - up to 80% of the time; the other 20% of your work is deducted at Ubers rate of up to 40%.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


Good work, I guess. I can only do fundamental math - with a calculator.

I just used the simple formula:

Uber gets mega-wealthy + extremely low fares = pissed-off driver.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

On this weeks statement Uber got 24.5% of the total.


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> I did some quick calculations concerning what we get paid and came up with definitive proof that Uber is straight up lying to us. We do not get 80% of the fare. Actually, effectively speaking it is mathematically _impossible _to get 80% of the fare.


Absolutely. The whole business model of Uber is based on milking the drivers while misleading and cheating them. Not so surprising, since the previous business model was based on stealing copyrighted property.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I prefer this formula.

Uber + Lyft = Assholes


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## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

I mean, Uber would essential solve their problem if they made it a 20% take off the top. Then our earnings would be:

X$
$4 = $3.2
$5 = $4
$6 = $4.8
$7 = $5.6
$8 =$6.4

As opposed to:

$4 = $2.4
$5 = $3.2
$6 = $4
$7 = $4.8
$8 =$5.6

We wouldn't get the full $1 back, but at least we'd get $.80 back per dollar.

They would take home less money of course, but its the best compromise between keeping the rates at their current levels and giving some back to the drivers. A straight 20% off the top at least still incentivizes drivers to drive more. By taking that $1, it actually encourages drivers to drive LESS. Hunt for the large fares, and drop the smaller fares.


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## Moofish (Jun 13, 2014)

That $1 "Safe Rider Fee" is what really eats away at it, with the amount of commission being already over $1 per trip, there is no reason that it couldn't be taken from that (as if a "safe rider fee" isnt a BS fee anyway). Obviously there are some drivers that make you question if a background check is actually done, and no reason we couldn't pay for that as a 1-time fee.

Also for insurance, does UberBlack still have $1 rider fees even though they provide their own insurance? I understand that X needs that insurance coverage and it should be reflected in the rates and covered by the commission for X instead of a fee (which is why it baffles me that Black has a higher commission).

Its just an excuse to get more money without calling it commission, because its counted toward the minimum "fare", the lower fares take the biggest hit.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


Calculations based on actual results reported by drivers shows that* Uber takes 28-29+%* of the gross weekly fare consistently.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Don't forget that nasty $10 per week iPhone fee...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> On this weeks statement Uber got 24.5% of the total.


They got 28+% on mine.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


Schmucks!


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## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

remember, ÜberX = 20%
ÜberXL = 28%
ÜberBlk = 25%
ÜberSUV = 28%

These numbers reflect ÜberX pricing in certain markets. Some markets also get charged sales tax and black car fund and various other charges


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Schmucks!


I agree...GIGO !!!


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## UberTaxGuy (Oct 8, 2014)

Airport runs are popular here in Charlotte for this reason - the longer the trip, the more % you keep. Also lower overhead cost for waiting in between rides. Rides from south Charlotte into the airport are $30 to $45 and you can wait in your home for the first ride of the day. That's a 30 minute ride, verses it may take an hour to get five $5 rides in the city during the morning commute - then Uber gets the $1 fee on all of those rides killing your percentage earned. Uber just announced a queue at the Charlotte airport. You won't get a ride by being the closest rider anymore. You go to a certain cell lot and you'll get in their electronic queue to take the next ride. Does this happen in other markets?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

I don't get it!

Uber's $1 SRF isn't going anywhere.
It's never gonna share it with the drivers. That pays for whatever murky insurance that's being currently being provided for UberX.

Why not focus your indignation and energies on getting decent rates!

Why not focus on getting the tip functionality of Uber extended to UberX & UberBLACK too, as it already exists for UberTaxi!

Why not focus on getting a fairer Rating System!

Why not focus on making sure that Uber doesn't up the commission to 25% on existing UberX Drivers! (New Drivers in SF are paying 25% since Sept 2nd.)


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## billybengal (Sep 26, 2014)

Bastards charge us 20% or more and we don't even get company issued hammers!


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

This doesn't appear to be an issue in the UK.

But we are all licensed drivers with licensed vehicles and as such don't have to pay the $1 ridesafe fee as we have our own Hire+Reward Insurance.

It does surprise me that drivers in the US think getting 80% of the fare is bad.

Yes Uber gets a cut of every fare so it builds up but they also have to have premises and employ staff and keep the App updated aswell as fight with local regulators.

The average UberX driver in the US appears to use whatever car they already own.

So has almost no money invested.

In London for example the more likely % of an account docket would be closer to 50% in some firms.


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## billybengal (Sep 26, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> This doesn't appear to be an issue in the UK.
> 
> But we are all licensed drivers with licensed vehicles and as such don't have to pay the $1 ridesafe fee as we have our own Hire+Reward Insurance.
> 
> ...


The point is how much is left in driver's pockets.
I wouldn't care if they charged 80% if they charged $10 per mile cause that would leave $2 for me but they charge $0.90 in Chicago so you're left with even less after 20% deduction. The point is that in most U.S. cities they charge so little that people are left with nothing when you figure gas, car maintnence and taxes. The least they could do is lower their commissin.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

billybengal said:


> if they charged $10 per mile


Do you wanna edit that?


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

He did say *if*...
as in *if* Travis comes to his senses...


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

UberTaxGuy said:


> Uber just announced a queue at the Charlotte airport. You won't get a ride by being the closest rider anymore. You go to a certain cell lot and you'll get in their electronic queue to take the next ride. Does this happen in other markets?


No Charlotte airport is the first airport with a queue dispatch system. 
It's a much fairer and safer system to have a queue system for the airport.
Many Uber drivers, mostly UberBLACK drivers, have downloaded some app that fools the GPS system. These Apps let you falsify your GPS location to whatever you want it to be. Wanna guess where these drivers show their false location? Right inside the airport terminals!

In Chicago O'hare, the UberBLACK drivers got tired of waiting in the staging area with many not getting a ping for hours. So they devised their own voluntary queue system. They'd all go into the waiting room at the staging area, and write their names on a clip board. Every driver would turn off their UberPhone except the top 2-3 drivers. Well Uber_CHI got wind off this, and actually Geo fenced off the waiting room! Uber Aholes!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


The math above is all fine and good. The big BUT comes in with SURGE fares.

Then an opposing chart could be drawn showing nice returns for drivers.

We all have a tendency to look only at the worst of the slow days pay. But Uber's model is based on getting drivers out for demand times and paying them to do so. That part of their biz plan is brilliant.


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## UberTaxGuy (Oct 8, 2014)

chi1cabby, that is unreal that Uber is charging 25% now in San Francisco. When you look at the numbers, at 20% fees Uber is not a sustainable model. Basically, for drivers, one is squeezing the value out of their personal vehicle at an accelerated rate and turning it into cash. Cash now, much lower vehicle resale value or higher repair bills later. That might work for someone short term who is in between opportunities, or someone entering the work force, but it is not an honest wage - at least not in the Charlotte market where long driving in between rides significantly reduces after tax/after depreciation/after vehicle expense driver revenue. And once the investor money dries up, Uber will not be able to churn drivers the way they must now. Management must be counting on a revenue stream large enough to replace investor cash that is going to promotion now. I'm with you on your issues, but have little faith that large corporations do the best thing for their workforce. They do the best thing for their shareholders or themselves if the organization is owned privately. I know I've struck a deal with the devil but it's acceptable to me until that other thing works out.  Lyft just dropped their rates by 20% in this market and I don't even sign on with them anymore. For any real change, drivers will need to organize or leave Uber. Maybe that's underway and I'm just not aware, but it seems like you have the pulse of the significant issues. I hope Uber will make concessions towards their Partners so they can maintain a quality service for Riders.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

UberTaxGuy said:


> Uber just announced a queue at the Charlotte airport. You won't get a ride by being the closest rider anymore. You go to a certain cell lot and you'll get in their electronic queue to take the next ride. Does this happen in other markets?


I actually very much like the idea of an electronic queue, even though UberX is not permitted for pickup in Dallas airports, yet.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

If the $1 ride safe is included then the maths are not correct.

That is a fee levied due to the use of unlicensed drivers.

If the job gos £20 on the App.

And i get £16 of it then that is 80% of the docket.

And as far as taking it to 4 or 5 decimal points!

Somebody is overthinking this.

Uber is nothing new imho.

Just Private Hire, Minicabbing or in some cases an on demand Chauffeur Service.

The difference is they now allow unlicensed drivers on the platform in the US to compete with Lyft and Sidecar.

Why should an unlicensed and incorrectly insured person make the same money as somebody with all the correct paperwork and ins?

It isn't about what your topline is.

It is what your profit is.

I could make a profit on £2 a mile if I was driving without proper insurance and without local authority licenses.

But at £4 a mile i can make a profit.

But not much more profit than a driver of an UberExec car on £2:60 a mile (note i have not double checked the UberExec mileage rate so it may be slightly different)

If anybody thinks they will be making huge amounts of money doing 10/20hours a week then they are kidding themselves.

Most PH spend the first 2 days of the week covering expences and the rest of the week making profit.

In London some people moaned about the UberX rates dropping.

Mostly newbies.

As the experienced drivers realised that UberX still.pays better than 90% of other PH companies on account.

And not far behind many Executive companies.

Obviously UberX is a bit less than Addison Lee cash prices.

But the drivers are getting less and less cash as AL are pushing theses clients over to paying by CC.

An unregulated driver without proper insurance is worth less per mile.

Some people need to understand this.

The Private Hire industry has always been full of exageration as far as income goes.

But as the old saying goes there is indeed a fool born every minute.


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## Sly (Aug 30, 2014)

> That is a fee levied due to the use of unlicensed drivers.


If we get a CDL do they drop that fee?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

UberTaxGuy said:


> that is unreal that Uber is charging 25% now in San Francisco.


SF is almost always the test market for any changes. So I expect the 25% commission for new drivers nationwide fairly soon.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Sly said:


> If we get a CDL do they drop that fee?


We don't pay a safe ride fee in the UK as we have the appropriate hire and reward insurance cover.

Which is mandatory.

No rideshare in the UK.

If you drive for profit then you need to be licensed and insured for Hire and Reward.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

I still think you are looking at this wrong. In Chicago, there is an extra .30 city of ahi ago tax that appears on the statement and the screen when you end the fare. That is deducted before the commission is applied. Same with the SRF. Call it what you want, but it was never yours to begin with. 

I agree, I think it's bullshit, but this type of accounting could get you a job at Enron.


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

Another fool trying to claim that the safe ride fee is something that he is entitled to. You're not. You never were. It was stated clearly when it was introduced that it was to cover the costs of MVRs, Background checks, Insurance, etc. Get over it, and stop with your broken math. You're more than welcome to go drive for the criminal cab industry if you want.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Another fool trying to claim that the safe ride fee is something that he is entitled to. You're not. You never were. It was stated clearly when it was introduced that it was to cover the costs of MVRs, Background checks, Insurance, etc. Get over it, and stop with your broken math. You're more than welcome to go drive for the criminal cab industry if you want.


This isn't to start a pissing match but just so I can get it straight. Where was it mentioned that the Safe Rider Fee was for Insurance when it was introduced? I never saw this either as a Rider or a Driver reference?


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## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Another fool trying to claim that the safe ride fee is something that he is entitled to. You're not. You never were. It was stated clearly when it was introduced that it was to cover the costs of MVRs, Background checks, Insurance, etc. Get over it, and stop with your broken math. You're more than welcome to go drive for the criminal cab industry if you want.


My contention was the fact that Uber tells their riders, media, drivers, ect. that Uber takes "5-20%" of the fare (which I have proved in my original post is not true).

If you have proof my math is "broken" please prove it to me.

Other than that, I suggest you take a lesson in basic calculus. You're obviously a simpleton.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> My contention was the fact that Uber tells their riders, media, drivers, ect. that Uber takes "5-20%" of the fare (which I have proved in my original post is not true).
> 
> If you have proof my math is "broken" please prove it to me.
> 
> Other than that, I suggest you take a lesson in basic calculus. You're obviously a simpleton.


1st sentence - good and I completely agree 100%
2nd sentence - okay
3rd sentence - Just not necessary. Went from good info to name calling.

Express your opinion. Back it up. Argue a lot. Argue more. Leave name calling for other Forums and Trolls.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Do you wanna edit that?


*giggle*


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


In a few weeks we will probably be replacing that 20% with 25% :/


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Sly said:


> If we get a CDL do they drop that fee?


I've got a Class A CDL and the only thing I've got is an overwhelming feeling of being prostituted!


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## Rosita22 (Sep 6, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> The proof is in the math.


Dear Catnip: don't forget to add in the cost of gas, car washes, bottled water, plus 56 cents per mile depreciation on your vehicle. When subtracting these costs from total earnings, we get single digit net earnings per hour. 
Suggestion: you'll make much, much more hourly as a math tutor. 
Cheers


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Rosita22 said:


> Dear Catnip: don't forget to add in the cost of gas, car washes, bottled water, plus 56 cents per mile depreciation on your vehicle. When subtracting these costs from total earnings, we get single digit net earnings per hour.
> Suggestion: you'll make much, much more hourly as a math tutor.
> Cheers


No bottled water here. I just drink energy drinks and coffee. Don't care what the people in the back drink. It's not my problem. If Uber wants me to supply water, they have my address. They can ship some out. I'm making less than minimum wage, but they want me to buy bottled water for these people? Yeah, ain't happen'n!


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Rosita22 said:


> Dear Catnip: don't forget to add in the cost of gas, car washes, bottled water, plus 56 cents per mile depreciation on your vehicle. When subtracting these costs from total earnings, we get single digit net earnings per hour.
> Suggestion: you'll make much, much more hourly as a math tutor.
> Cheers


1+1=3 Nope, I'm stuck driving sweetie.


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

Rosita22 said:


> Dear Catnip: don't forget to add in the cost of gas, car washes, bottled water, plus 56 cents per mile depreciation on your vehicle. When subtracting these costs from total earnings, we get single digit net earnings per hour.
> Suggestion: you'll make much, much more hourly as a math tutor.
> Cheers


Rosita: The 56 cents per mile amount that the IRS allows you to deduct as expenses includes gas. I recently found out how much of that the IRS assumes is gas versus maintenance, depreciation, etc. For gas and oil, the IRS allows you 24 cents per mile. So excluding oil changes which is a small part, the non-gas expenses are estimated at 32 cents per mile. The IRS is not a particularly generous institution, so that 56 cents figure is a conservative estimate. Of course the real cost will vary significantly depending on whether it is a gas guzzler or a hybrid, whether it is a cheap old or a luxury newer type of car, etc.

But no doubt about it, math tutors make much better money....


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## Sly (Aug 30, 2014)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...ewest-tactic-pay-drivers-more-than-they-earn/

The transportation app price wars have crossed a new threshold: drivers can now take home more money than a rider paid.

That's the news hidden in Uber's recent fare-slashing, which started in some cities on June 10 and made it to the San Francisco Bay Area, its biggest market, on Monday.

Riders pay 25 percent less than old UberX fares. But drivers are still paid 80 percent of the original fare, Uber spokeswoman Eva Behrend told Forbes.

That change means a rider now pays $11.25 for a formerly $15 ride - but the driver magically pockets $12.

Fare cuts, while popular with riders, have made drivers furious. Drivers organized and protested against Uber in May after the company raised its commission while keeping its fares low. And drivers were similarly upset when Lyft dropped fares 10 percent in April.


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

Sly said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...ewest-tactic-pay-drivers-more-than-they-earn/
> 
> The transportation app price wars have crossed a new threshold: drivers can now take home more money than a rider paid.
> 
> ...


Sly: Are you in a time-warp or what ? Why are you posting now this outdated and by now totally irrelevant and incorrect information ? Did your watch stop ticking in early July ? If so, go to Radio Shack and get a new battery for it....


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> On this weeks statement Uber got 24.5% of the total.


Mine was 24.7% I'm just about ready to turn my phone in.


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

The 10 dollars a week for the phone really stacks up when you take a couple weeks off


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

This week Uber took 29.92% of the fares... When most fares were under $10.00 the % moves up a lot!

85% of my fares last week under $10.00. New rates suck.


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## josolo (Sep 27, 2014)

My last invoice says fares=182.17
Payout to me was .............162.32

182.17 X .8 = 145.73

...and that included 3.55 hrs at a $15 an hour guarantee (minus fees).
I have no scientific data or spreadsheets obfuscating the data but seems like a fair shake to me.
What am I supposed to be looking at here?


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## UbermanFLL (Oct 1, 2014)

I feel the $1 Safe Ride fee is awash. All driver fares should be considered $1 less than the actual fare displayed on the app. The 20% come out of the driver fare. I don't have any qualms about the 20%. It covers R&D, marketing, legal costs and administration as any going concern needs to cover.

The issue is the reduction in the fares. If you want to provide an excellent service it is counterproductive to compete on price. My customers have not expressed price as the determining factor in choosing Uber. They are more concerned about the quality of the cars and drivers. The ease of payment and the ability to track the ride is a strong draw. We were still under taxi fares before the additional cuts.

All great companies are built by the worker bees (drivers in our case). The worker bees need to be respected and incentivised to work hard and promote the brand and show a united front to customers, fellow drivers and general public. This is how Uber will win the legislative battles the are facing.

Looking forward to your thoughts!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

UbermanFLL said:


> I feel the $1 Safe Ride fee is awash. All driver fares should be considered $1 less than the actual fare displayed on the app. The 20% come out of the driver fare. I don't have any qualms about the 20%. It covers R&D, marketing, legal costs and administration as any going concern needs to cover.
> 
> The issue is the reduction in the fares. If you want to provide an excellent service it is counterproductive to compete on price. My customers have not expressed price as the determining factor in choosing Uber. They are more concerned about the quality of the cars and drivers. The ease of payment and the ability to track the ride is a strong draw. We were still under taxi fares before the additional cuts.
> 
> ...


All of this has already been covered several times over in other threads.


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## Markopolo (Sep 23, 2014)

Yep, I had published something similar a couple months ago. My conclusion was to hope for longer rides to to be able to keep nearly 80% of the ride fare price. Short rides kill your bottom line!


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## Flint J (Nov 21, 2014)

Yep I do airport rides for this very reason. Longer rides equal less that Uber keeps. It just makes more sense to do longer trips even tho you feel like your working less..because you might only do a trip an hour your making more. Good job with the math. I can't do math, but you don't half to be bright to see your Uber takes more then 20% off of the short rides and less from the longer rides


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## Flint J (Nov 21, 2014)

The scary thing is Uber charging new drivers higher commissions so they are earning less#NoTripsAt6


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## Rosita22 (Sep 6, 2014)

This past week, I decided to give the U one more chance. My gross before gas + carwashes for ~ 23 hours of meter on? A pathetic $200 and change & I had maybe 6 fairly long distance rides. After gas + car wash + water? Approx $13o net. Do the math. Hourly = $5.65. I drive a late model fully loaded vehicle w/ leather seats. Folks, this isn't even minimum wage. It's theft of services. Depreciation = 56 cents per mile. We're LOSING money on this gig.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Rosita22 said:


> This past week, I decided to give the U one more chance. My gross before gas + carwashes for ~ 23 hours of meter on? A pathetic $200 and change & I had maybe 6 fairly long distance rides. After gas + car wash + water? Approx $13o net. Do the math. Hourly = $5.65. I drive a late model fully loaded vehicle w/ leather seats. Folks, this isn't even minimum wage. It's theft of services. Depreciation = 56 cents per mile. We're LOSING money on this gig.


You're doing better than I am.


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## drivernotfound (Nov 5, 2014)

Uber would make more money from having you do 12 - 5 minute rides per hour than 1 - 60 minute ride per hour. (12 $1 safe rider fees versus 1.)
You probably would make more from the 1 - 60 minute ride per hour as well. (Because of higher MPG in a non-hybrid vehicle, less administrative time waiting for pax, cleaning the vehicle, etc.)
What tactics might Uber be employing to make sure the rides are numerous and short instead of few and long? (Operating in cities instead of suburbs, even if there is some demand in some suburbs, that sort of thing?)


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Rosita22 said:


> This past week, I decided to give the U one more chance. My gross before gas + carwashes for ~ 23 hours of meter on? A pathetic $200 and change & I had maybe 6 fairly long distance rides. After gas + car wash + water? Approx $13o net. Do the math. Hourly = $5.65. I drive a late model fully loaded vehicle w/ leather seats. Folks, this isn't even minimum wage. It's theft of services. Depreciation = 56 cents per mile. We're LOSING money on this gig.


*UBER SUCKS!!* I just like to throw that out there fairly often, and this seemed like a good as place as any.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

drivernotfound said:


> Uber would make more money from having you do 12 - 5 minute rides per hour than 1 - 60 minute ride per hour. (12 $1 safe rider fees versus 1.)
> You probably would make more from the 1 - 60 minute ride per hour as well. (Because of higher MPG in a non-hybrid vehicle, less administrative time waiting for pax, cleaning the vehicle, etc.)
> What tactics might Uber be employing to make sure the rides are numerous and short instead of few and long? (Operating in cities instead of suburbs, even if there is some demand in some suburbs, that sort of thing?)


You're assuming constraints on Uber which don't exist. For Uber it's not either/or. Short trips may make them more per hour, but with ample excess capacity in the driver network they can also meet demand for long trips. Of course they don't try to use tactics to discourage long trips in favor of short ones.


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## Sly (Aug 30, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> *UBER SUCKS!!* I just like to throw that out there fairly often, and this seemed like a good as place as any.


Uber is doing what is best for Uber just like you are doing what is best for you and I am doing what is best for me. Don't expect Uber to do what is best for you and Uber won't expect you to do what is best for Uber.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sly said:


> Uber won't expect you to do what is best for Uber.


Based on what evidence?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Sly said:


> Uber is doing what is best for Uber just like you are doing what is best for you and I am doing what is best for me. Don't expect Uber to do what is best for you and Uber won't expect you to do what is best for Uber.


Hey Man! Pass me the J and hit me again with that you say! Its a revelation that could start a new Church. Just ask Joe Smith


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

The $1 safe ride fee is only paid by the UberX drivers in the US?

Surely this is only an issue for the Rideshare drivers and not those with properly insured cars driving with the appropriate requirements for their locality?


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## Lou W (Oct 26, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


I don't think you need an understanding of calculus to know that your getting screwed by uber.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Knowledge of algebra and geometry pretty much covers it.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Sly said:


> Uber is doing what is best for Uber just like you are doing what is best for you and I am doing what is best for me. Don't expect Uber to do what is best for you and Uber won't expect you to do what is best for Uber.




How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

I think mine made more sense.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey Man! Pass me the J and hit me again with that you say! Its a revelation that could start a new Church. Just ask Joe Smith


 Good Stuff!


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

*Well if I cant make20/hr at least give me what's in the picture.







*

*Earn up to $20/hour and $45K/year in fares driving in Iowa City with uberX! Apply now and start making some serious cash!*


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Sly said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhu...ewest-tactic-pay-drivers-more-than-they-earn/
> 
> The transportation app price wars have crossed a new threshold: drivers can now take home more money than a rider paid.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what they did here before the made the cuts permanent. Then the drivers' money was cut by 20%.


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## LubaLuft (Nov 24, 2014)

I drive UberX Philly and have no evidence of CatnipHigh's theory on my current payment statement... Every fare works out to 80% of what the passenger pays.


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## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

LubaLuft said:


> I drive UberX Philly and have no evidence of CatnipHigh's theory on my current payment statement... Every fare works out to 80% of what the passenger pays.


Thats because your locality hasn't started the $1 safe rider fee yet. Enjoy it while it lasts.


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## prdelnik666 (Sep 17, 2014)

billybengal said:


> Bastards charge us 20% or more and we don't even get company issued hammers!


Even though sad story your comment got me laughing so hard. Thanks for the laughs


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## LubaLuft (Nov 24, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Thats because your locality hasn't started the $1 safe rider fee yet. Enjoy it while it lasts.


It took me a bit, but now I understand your original post and original argument. I concede.


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## Boots the Cat (Nov 1, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> percentage


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## Boots the Cat (Nov 1, 2014)

need you say more
...


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## Ehmtbescrewingus (Oct 16, 2014)

Good post..


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
> 
> I think mine made more sense.


Sly's preparing for America's Got Talent. It's his take on the Blur song, "boys who dig girls who love boys who love girls... etc etc". Sly gonna be rockin' on stage.


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## taarbo (Nov 29, 2014)

Uber now takes 25% commission from any drivers that signed up recently (like me)


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

taarbo said:


> Uber now takes 25% commission from any drivers that signed up recently (like me)


Unbelievable! Since a HUGE number of my rides here are $5 minimum fare rides, that would probably be closer to 50% for me!


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

QUOTE="DriverJ, post: 104161, member: 1694"]Unbelievable! Since a HUGE number of my rides here are $5 minimum fare rides, that would probably be closer to 50% for me![/QUOTE]
I started my own excel spreadsheet and noticed the keep was 62% at worst (when I was doing short trips) and I managed to avoid any areas that previously generated only short trips to increase my cumulative keep to around 74%. It is almost impossible to keep more than this 74% gross fare. Besides, I keep paying tolls which the Uber app does not include into the fare and that goes straight out of my pocket. It is too tedious to dig and relate the toll for each and every time it happens. Paying it is cheaper. If that is included, my keep is not even 74%.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> I managed to avoid any areas that previously generated only short trips to increase my cumulative keep to around 74%.


That's what kills me here. I get some _okay_ fares, but not the regular $20.xx - $30.xx and above rides I see others in different markets posting on here. Even when the fares were at $1.40/mile here, it was hardly worth doing. At $1.15/mile, and predominately extremely short trips, it's laughable.

Uber has it very, very wrong in this market.

Thanks for the info.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> That's what kills me here. I get some _okay_ fares, but not the regular $20.xx - $30.xx and above rides I see others in different markets posting on here. Even when the fares were at $1.40/mile here, it was hardly worth doing. At $1.15/mile, and predominately extremely short trips, it's laughable.
> 
> Uber has it very, very wrong in this market.
> 
> Thanks for the info.


We have to stay away from areas that generate low fares. Make it entirely based on your own past experience. you don't need to know my area that I avoid. It might be working for you perfectly. We might be working in different times/fare multipliers etc.. so this is completely unique to each driver.

We have to really rate the passengers based on their actions from the moment they make the request until the moment they exit the car. and never based on whether they tip or not. If passengers are rated truly for their actions, we will then see some low ranking a-holes not being picked up. Surge price kick in. that driver willing to pick up this a-hole be rewarded by a higher fare. This is built in. Travis has this right, and we have to give him credit! But we must all agree to use it like that. Just because I am sitting between trips idle I won't pick up a 4-rated person. Yesterday a 4.1 rated person kept pinging. I did not respond. for a flat fare, I will not go the distance only to see an a-hole in my car to possibly give me a bad rating. A surge multiplier of 2x or more would do the trick.

We need to avoid taking more people into our cars. I will never take more than available seat belts. This will ensure there is business for another Uber driver with a larger car.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite (Nov 11, 2014)

If a driver wants to low rate a passenger because he didn't tip, that's his prerogative. All these declarations of how drivers should rate passengers are pointless, because we have yet to even organize a group that can exercise the power of all drivers being united.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> If a driver wants to low rate a passenger because he didn't tip, that's his prerogative. All these declarations of how drivers should rate passengers are pointless, because we have yet to even organize a group that can exercise the power of all drivers being united.


Exactly, maybe that shouldn't be the only concern, but definitely the primary concern.


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## prdelnik666 (Sep 17, 2014)

Moofish said:


> That $1 "Safe Rider Fee" is what really eats away at it, with the amount of commission being already over $1 per trip, there is no reason that it couldn't be taken from that (as if a "safe rider fee" isnt a BS fee anyway). Obviously there are some drivers that make you question if a background check is actually done, and no reason we couldn't pay for that as a 1-time fee.
> 
> Also for insurance, does UberBlack still have $1 rider fees even though they provide their own insurance? I understand that X needs that insurance coverage and it should be reflected in the rates and covered by the commission for X instead of a fee (which is why it baffles me that Black has a higher commission).
> 
> Its just an excuse to get more money without calling it commission, because its counted toward the minimum "fare", the lower fares take the biggest hit.


The safe ride fee bullshit comes out to about $6,000 per year for a full time driver. You can't tell me it's going to background checks lol


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

prdelnik666 said:


> The safe ride fee bullshit comes out to about $6,000 per year for a full time driver. You can't tell me it's going to background checks lol


If they're even paying $6 for a background check they're obviously getting ripped off!


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...





CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...





CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

Of course Uber is counting on the fact that 99.9 % of people aren't as good at math as you.
Or so tired from working to figure out just how they are being taken advantage of.
With an Suv, they take about 40 % of your earnings, and for what?
Did you figure in the "tips" that Uber keeps on you ??


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## UberNOT (Nov 17, 2014)

monkeys working for peanuts


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

UberNOT said:


> monkeys working for peanuts


Monkeys are smarter than me. I can't afford peanuts working for these people.


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> The average UberX driver in the US appears to use whatever car they already own.
> 
> So has almost no money invested.
> 
> In London for example the more likely % of an account docket would be closer to 50% in some firms.


What? You mean, because I own a car before I started doing Uber and you bought a car because of Uber, you car expense is vastly more than mine? I thought London was the financial capital. I guess you must be from out of town. Do the math.


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## ItookurRider (Oct 10, 2015)

CatnipHigh said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I decided to do this after reading several of the pay posts and thought...with the current pay structure is it even possible to make a 80% of the total fare, that Uber is claiming we make?
> 
> ...


I love math peeps!! I'm a math peep too!


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## bart2puck (Jul 26, 2015)

they add the SRF to the fee and then subtract it, then take 20%, how is that a problem?

Fare,SRF,-SRF,-20%,earnings
37.73 1.35 (1.35) (7.55) 30.18

37.73 * .80 = 30.18

its not a problem.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

bart2puck said:


> they add the SRF to the fee and then subtract it, then take 20%, how is that a problem?
> 
> Fare,SRF,-SRF,-20%,earnings
> 37.73 1.35 (1.35) (7.55) 30.18
> ...


The problem is that Uber has raised the fares charged to customers, and is not passing on any of the fare increase it receives to drivers. Uber receives a total fare of $x from a pax. How it shares that revenue with drivers is just semantics. It can say that part of the fare is a Safe Rides Fee, or it could say that part of it is a Millenial Iced Frappuccino fee, or a Shiny New Trophy Office fee, or anything else it cares to come up with. The net effect is the same - the Safe Ride Fee goes into the same Uber bank account as the rest of the fare, and it goes to bottom line profit contribution for Uber.

In a time where Uber consistently harps on about lower fares being better for drivers, it grates on us that they then raise fares yet share none of the increases with drivers. At least they have not dared to send out any propaganda to drivers claiming that the increased fares benefit drivers in some convoluted way.


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## bart2puck (Jul 26, 2015)

elelegido said:


> The problem is that Uber has raised the fares charged to customers, and is not passing on any of the fare increase it receives to drivers. Uber receives a total fare of $x from a pax. How it shares that revenue with drivers is just semantics. It can say that part of the fare is a Safe Rides Fee, or it could say that part of it is a Millenial Iced Frappuccino fee, or a Shiny New Trophy Office fee, or anything else it cares to come up with. The net effect is the same - the Safe Ride Fee goes into the same Uber bank account as the rest of the fare.
> 
> In a time where Uber consistently harps on about lower fares being better for drivers, it grates that they then raise fares yet share none of the increases with drivers. At least they have not dared to send out any propaganda to drivers claiming that the increased fares benefit them in some way.


i agree the SRF is bogus, but it doesn't matter if its 1.00 or 21915.39, it gets added and then removed before % calculation so its a 0 net gain/loss to driver. if anything it screws the rider into paying a bit more for their ride.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

The real argument should be that the SRF shouldn't be "in" the Total Amount the Rider pays in the first place.

Uber should be raising Fares and sharing those raised amounts with Drivers. Uber should not be adding an arbitrary fee and keeping 100% of this fee. They only do it because they can.

Why not a "we added more servers" fee. A "the guys/gals at Goldman Sachs are asking for more $$" fee. A "we are paying way too much for lawyers" fee. A " new Headquarters" fee. A " R & D for Driverless Car" fee?

Anything "allegedly" that the SRF is "used on the behalf of drivers" to pay for should simply be a line item on the Uber Balance Sheet. It shouldn't require a separate Charge "added" to the Mileage/Time Rate. 

There should be NO SRF unless it is shared with Drivers. I'm not one for more regulations but his is one the local/state regulators should consider. That is, either share the SRF with Drivers or do away with it.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

bart2puck said:


> i agree the SRF is bogus, but it doesn't matter if its 1.00 or 21915.39, it gets added and then removed before % calculation so its a 0 net gain/loss to driver. if anything it screws the rider into paying a bit more for their ride.


Yes, there is a zero net gain to drivers, and that's precisely the point. Uber is gaining from the 100%+ increase in its fees.

If I own a business and you are my employee, I can charge what I like for my services, and raise my prices and justifiably pay you exactly the same as before for the same work.

However, what if you were in a partnership with me and we agreed to split the revenue we receive. What if I suddenly started charging customers more on the side and did not share any of that increased revenue with you. Would you think it'd be fair for me to share some of that extra revenue with you?

Granted, "fair" and "Uber" are mutually exclusive, but this is the reason drivers feel aggrieved.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

SCdave said:


> The real argument should be that the SRF shouldn't be "in" the Total Amount the Rider pays in the first place.
> 
> Uber should be raising Fares and sharing those raised amounts with Drivers. Uber should not be adding an arbitrary fee and keeping 100% of this fee. They only do it because they can.
> 
> ...


My thoughts precisely


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## bart2puck (Jul 26, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Yes, there is a zero net gain to drivers, and that's precisely the point. Uber is gaining from the 100%+ increase in its fees.
> 
> If I own a business and you are my employee, I can charge what I like for my services, and raise my prices and justifiably pay you exactly the same as before for the same work.
> 
> ...


I can see your point and it makes sense, i just ignore it. waay to many other things in life to get annoyed by.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

bart2puck said:


> I can see your point and it makes sense, i just ignore it. waay to many other things in life to get annoyed by.


That's OK - I've seen a few posts on here by people asking what the problem is with srf and its increases; it needed explaining.

If decreased fares lead to more trips for drivers according to Uber, then it inevitably follows that increased fares will lead to fewer trips for drivers, paid at the same rate as before; therefore decreased earnings for drivers.

I guess some will ignore this, and it may not have much of a negative impact on driver earnings. Then again it might, so I for one will be keeping an eye on any effect it has on my gross. And maybe do a bit more on Lyft, which pays better anyway.


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## DMV guy (Oct 8, 2015)

UberTaxGuy said:


> Airport runs are popular here in Charlotte for this reason - the longer the trip, the more % you keep. Also lower overhead cost for waiting in between rides. Rides from south Charlotte into the airport are $30 to $45 and you can wait in your home for the first ride of the day. That's a 30 minute ride, verses it may take an hour to get five $5 rides in the city during the morning commute - then Uber gets the $1 fee on all of those rides killing your percentage earned. Uber just announced a queue at the Charlotte airport. You won't get a ride by being the closest rider anymore. You go to a certain cell lot and you'll get in their electronic queue to take the next ride. Does this happen in other markets?


Is this electronic que at airport you speak on going on at most airports? Here at BWI in Maryland i have waited on side of road and IN airport terminal and never get a ping. In fact when I look on customer app i don't even see myself available to get l ping. When I leave airport i see myself on customer app and that's when I get pings... Can someone fill me in?


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## delubio (Oct 3, 2015)

UberTaxGuy said:


> Airport runs are popular here in Charlotte for this reason - the longer the trip, the more % you keep. Also lower overhead cost for waiting in between rides. Rides from south Charlotte into the airport are $30 to $45 and you can wait in your home for the first ride of the day. That's a 30 minute ride, verses it may take an hour to get five $5 rides in the city during the morning commute - then Uber gets the $1 fee on all of those rides killing your percentage earned. Uber just announced a queue at the Charlotte airport. You won't get a ride by being the closest rider anymore. You go to a certain cell lot and you'll get in their electronic queue to take the next ride. Does this happen in other markets?


Hi there, can you tell me if I put +65 hours per week in Charlotte you think I'm able to make $1.000,00 to $1.200,00 weekly (gross)?
I do uber full time in Jacksonville FL and I make $750,00 to $960,00 (gross) per week working those +65 hours.
I am studying right now to get two certifications and Uber is my full time job (because of the flexibility) and I don't care about the wear and tear nor the other expenses, because this job is only temporary (another year, if that).
Can you tell me how much I can make with those crazy hours?
I also do Lyft , and the money I make is a combination of both companies.
Thank you!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

delubio said:


> Hi there, can you tell me if I put +65 hours per week in Charlotte you think I'm able to make $1.000,00 to $1.200,00 weekly (gross)?


You should ask in Charlotte cities sub forum:
https://uberpeople.net/forums/Charlotte/


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

delubio said:


> Hi there, can you tell me if I put +65 hours per week in Charlotte you think I'm able to make $1.000,00 to $1.200,00 weekly (gross)?
> I do uber full time in Jacksonville FL and I make $750,00 to $960,00 (gross) per week working those +65 hours.
> I am studying right now to get two certifications and Uber is my full time job (because of the flexibility) and I don't care about the wear and tear nor the other expenses, because this job is only temporary (another year, if that).
> Can you tell me how much I can make with those crazy hours?
> ...


If you're grossing that prior to platform cutz looks like you're carving out about $10 an hour avg. BEFORE any driver expenses. Maybe even less than that. I just took an avg. of $850 a week minus 20% for platform. Charlotte has essentially the same mileage rate. A driver grossing $1100. before platform cutz would appear to have to clock nearly 2,000 miles a week at those pay rates (75 cents a mile) to hit that number. Unlikely. They'd have to avg. 30mph for the whole time. That doesn't happen. If a driver runs 75-85+ hours per week out on the street they'd probably hit 2000 miles.

There is no (taxable) money made at 75 cents a mile in any case of sights.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

uberdriver said:


> Absolutely. The whole business model of Uber is based on milking the drivers while misleading and cheating them. Not so surprising, since the previous business model was based on stealing copyrighted property.


What was the previous model on stealing copyrights? Are you referring to "File Sharing"?


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