# Is Uber Insurance Now Primary?



## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

This reddit post refers to an Uber email stating that Uber insurance is now primary. I have not received such an email. Can anyone confirm this?


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/2ben32


----------



## Orlando_Driver (Jul 14, 2014)

I just got the Uber email a few minutes ago . Uber insurance is now primary


----------



## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

Can someone post the e-mail or screenshot here?


----------



## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Orlando_Driver said:


> I just got the Uber email a few minutes ago . Uber insurance is now primary


That is great to hear! My region seems to be behind in the email game, so maybe I will see something next week. If anyone would like to post the email, I would love to see it.

I am glad that Uber has taken this step. I also feel like we owe Lyft a great deal of thanks, since without their announcement, one wonders if Uber would have taken this step.


----------



## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

Oh I found a screenshot on the reddit post:

http://i.imgur.com/sUcww6j.png


----------



## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

"From the moment you accept a trip to it's conclusion" - I thought they changed the policy so it's whenever the phone is on period?!

Ahh the coverage is less: 25,000/50,000/100,000

And the contingent comprehensive coverage (contingent on having personal comprehensive) is up to $50,000 with $1,000 deductible. Not bad.


----------



## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

I received the e-mail from Boston but not from Providence.


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Jeeves said:


> "From the moment you accept a trip to it's conclusion" - I thought they changed the policy so it's whenever the phone is on period?!


That is what the Insurance commissioner of CA lobbied for, the PUC at first went for it but then backed down and allowed the contingent coverage in this "Period 1, app on, no customer" period. They still have to make a decision on it regulatory wise. The 2 bills going through might enforce primary coverage on this period 1.

Still some gaps but getting closer to the goal of full primary commercial protection.


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

great news in that you don't have to contact your personal insurance company.

fingers crossed. (not that uber ever answers tough / expensive questions via email in my experience)


----------



## yoo (Jun 24, 2014)

So what does this primary exactly covers? Does it cover our car and the other party? Does it cover medical for both party?


----------



## dominant7th (Jun 24, 2014)

Just got the e-mail and I must admit I'm very happy about it. Makes the 28% commission, safe rider fee and phone fee sting a lot less.


----------



## dominant7th (Jun 24, 2014)

yoo said:


> So what does this primary exactly covers? Does it cover our car and the other party? Does it cover medical for both party?


It's going to vary from state to state. From what I understand NY is a PIP state correct?


----------



## Art71 (Jul 4, 2014)

I am trying figure out what our friends in Columbus, Ohio are going to have to deal with.
http://www.abc6onyourside.com/news/...cks-down-ridesharing-33524.shtml#.U865epRX-uY


----------



## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Uber is committed to connecting riders and drivers to one of the safest rides on the road. We have always carried protection that exceeds rideshare, limo and taxi standards while rideshare drivers are on Uber trips. We're excited to announce a few updates to provide you with more peace of mind and improve your claims experience (in the unfortunate event of an accident). The policy updates for all ridesharing drivers in Boston include:


Coverage while on an Uber trip is now expressly primary - *Updated*
Claims process is streamlined - *Updated*
Coverages and limits remain the same

*HOW HAS THE COVERAGE BEEN UPDATED?*


From the moment you accept a trip to its conclusion, the coverage provided to rideshare partners is primary to your personal auto policy. (However it will not take precedence over any commercial auto insurance you may have for the vehicle).
If you have comprehensive and collision coverage for your vehicle on your personal auto policy, you are covered for comprehensive and collision by simply providing evidence that this coverage was in place at the time of the accident. Our insurer will no longer require you to make a claim on your personal auto insurance in order to get this coverage. This helps you get back on the road faster. 

*DO I STILL NEED TO CARRY MY OWN PERSONAL INSURANCE?*


Yes. Valid personal auto insurance is required by state law to be on the road and we require it too. 
If you want coverage for damage to your vehicle, consider purchasing collision and comprehensive coverage to protect you in the event of an incident; our contingent coverage only applies if you have purchased this on your personal policy. 
If there's an incident that your personal insurance refuses to cover while you are not on a trip, our contingent coverage for when you are logged on and available in the Uber Driver App will provide drivers with liability protection for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and liability protection for property damage up to $25,000.

*WHAT DO I DO IF I AM IN AN ACCIDENT?*


As soon as it is safe to do so, contact your local Uber office. 
Complete the incident report form that we provide.
You will be provided with a claim number and an adjuster will contact you on behalf of our insurer to resolve the claim.
If an accident occurs while on a trip, we will not require you to contact your personal auto insurer to make a claim. However we recommend that you still report the accident if your personal insurer requires that. 

*REMIND ME, WHAT COVERAGES ARE AVAILABLE WHILE ON A TRIP? *


$1MM of third party liability insurance covering property damage and bodily injury to others
$1MM of uninsured / underinsured motorist bodily injury coverage
$50,000 of contingent comprehensive and collision with a $1,000 deductible for damage to your vehicle (you must carry collision insurance on your personal auto policy to get this coverage)


----------



## Moofish (Jun 13, 2014)

Just got the email too.
But I wonder, how are they verifying that we have collision on our personal insurance instead of just liability? I would assume there are plenty of people that get the minimum liability insurance to save as much money as they can.


> As soon as it is safe to do so, contact your local Uber office.


Also wonder what kind of turn around time this will take.


----------



## dominant7th (Jun 24, 2014)

Moofish said:


> Just got the email too.
> But I wonder, how are they verifying that we have collision on our personal insurance instead of just liability? I would assume there are plenty of people that get the minimum liability insurance to save as much money as they can.
> 
> Also wonder what kind of turn around time this will take.


I believe we're required to carry full coverage even if there's no leinholder. I had to send them my insurance a second time about a month ago so they could verify the coverage.


----------



## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Moofish said:


> Just got the email too.
> But I wonder, how are they verifying that we have collision on our personal insurance instead of just liability? I would assume there are plenty of people that get the minimum liability insurance to save as much money as they can.
> 
> Also wonder what kind of turn around time this will take.


I don't know about where you are, but in Boston I had to send them a copy of my insurance policy before I could drive.


----------



## Moofish (Jun 13, 2014)

OC, CA, only thing I had to upload was a proof of insurance card, there's no mention of amount of coverage on the card. Last thing I want is a ride-share company to contact my insurance to confirm coverage amounts.


----------



## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Moofish said:


> OC, CA, only thing I had to upload was a proof of insurance card, there's no mention of amount of coverage on the card. Last thing I want is a ride-share company to contact my insurance to confirm coverage amounts.


We don't have _Proof of Insurance_ cards in MA. We have insurance listed on the car registration, but Uber wouldn't accept that, and needed the insurance policy.


----------



## RacerX (May 7, 2014)

This is good news. glad to see that Uber and Lyft stepped-up. But, if I'm reading this correctly we still have a possible insurance gap when in the App ON but "hunting" or "waiting for a ping"?  If you get in an accident during this phase and it's your fault you have limited coverage if your personal insurance denies claim and there is still no comprehensive for you car during this phase. So if you owe 20K on a Car loan to toyota Finance or other lender You are still screwed? is this correct?


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

I just got the email, it is indeed good news and a move in the right direction.

If you are "waiting for a ping" nobody is in your car that can say you are an uber driver.... stash the phone if you keep it visible and deny, deny, deny if the ride share angle ever comes up! this is the time when the "trade dress" better not be in your windshield!

Your full coverage insurance _can_ cover you with no paying passengers.... Fault is still tricky, no guarantee uber will pay either! Just that they will "assign an adjuster" to your claim.

If you get a ping, install trade dress as you pull up to the customer....


----------



## dominant7th (Jun 24, 2014)

I think it'll help people either find a safe place to park and wait for another request after dropping off, or to logoff and head back to a busier spot. If the accident is your fault then yes you'll need to use your collission to repair/replace your own vehicle. There's GAP coverage for most newer vehicles that will cover the full replacement cost at the time of the loss.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

dominant7th said:


> I think it'll help people either find a safe place to park and wait for another request after dropping off, or to logoff and head back to a busier spot. If the accident is your fault then yes you'll need to use your collission to repair/replace your own vehicle. There's GAP coverage for most newer vehicles that will cover the full replacement cost at the time of the loss.


This also could change your strategy about when to take a request if you don't park right away. While you're driving around trying to find a hotspot, suppose you get a ping which you might normally reject because it's too far or whatever. Perhaps it would be better to take it. This then activates the primary insurance and expanded limits.

Remember that whole incident of the 6 year old killed in SF. It is still in litigation and appears to have been when the driver did not have a ride, but was still driving with the app on. This still remains a risk area, for both Uber and Lyft. If there's a serious accident, and you go into litigation, they're very likely going to find out what you were doing.


----------



## Barbara Bitela (Jul 14, 2014)

it's on you're covered. but remember too, get with your lender re your car loan about all this. can't hurt. may be like pounding a tack with a sledgehammer but still ...


----------



## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

mp775 said:


> I received the e-mail from Boston but not from Providence.


Providence e-mail has arrived.


----------



## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

While the new policy is nice, it would feel even better to have a proof of insurance card that had our name on it and a mention of Uber, since no one not associated with Uber knows what the hell Raiser is.

And God forbid that the insurance card would have an actual PHONE NUMBER!!!


----------



## Larry B (Apr 9, 2014)

Definitely a mark in the positive category.


----------



## Johnny O (Jul 3, 2014)

Barbara Bitela said:


> it's on you're covered. but remember too, get with your lender re your car loan about all this. can't hurt. may be like pounding a tack with a sledgehammer but still ...


 You might want to check your loan documents before you contact your lender. Most Loans are for Private Use Only and not for Commercial Use.


----------



## Johnny O (Jul 3, 2014)

grams777 said:


> This also could change your strategy about when to take a request if you don't park right away. While you're driving around trying to find a hotspot, suppose you get a ping which you might normally reject because it's too far or whatever. Perhaps it would be better to take it. This then activates the primary insurance and expanded limits.
> 
> Remember that whole incident of the 6 year old killed in SF. It is still in litigation and appears to have been when the driver did not have a ride, but was still driving with the app on. This still remains a risk area, for both Uber and Lyft. If there's a serious accident, and you go into litigation, they're very likely going to find out what you were doing.


 I agree, if there is an accident while not covered by the Primary Commercial Insurance and you have you Uber Trade Dress exhibited. You are screwed.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

After looking at the insurance in some detail, it appears there is extra coverage when you are at a public airport. Best I can tell, at a public airport it means you have the higher limit primary insurance if you are waiting for a request, as well as to/during a ride, or exiting the airport after a ride. This should mean this is already close to meeting most airport insurance requirements (except for the additional named insured issue for example). I do not remember seeing this in the Lyft policy. If not, Uber's is slightly superior in this respect.

Note the following from the new Uber insurance policy (California version). Symbol 10 refers to the $1 million primary coverage (see declaration page and endorsement 28).


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Wow, yes, Very good Find Grams. This is their solution to the Airport dilemma. Means full and primary commercial coverage while they are on the grounds of an airport. Quite ingenious of them. Full legality at airports should not be far behind.


----------



## arklan (Aug 3, 2014)

i'm a new driver, so still not clear what's required of me, insurance wise... great to have it clearly stated they cover with a rider though. 

but really, what exactly must my personal insurance cover? getting "full coverage" double my premium...


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Arklan you do not need to have full coverage if you choose not to but what you risk is not getting your car fixed in an accident. Because Uber's secondary insurance will not cover fixing your car unless you have collision coverage on your vehicle. If your car is only worth like $3000.00 might be a good idea just to take the risk and forgo the coverage since Ubers deductible is like 1,000 anyway. If you are driving around in a $25,000 vehicle you would be stupid not to have collision coverage on it.

As far as liability and possibly getting sued for a serious accident that exists at all times. Since you are doing an activity expressly prohibited by most personal insurance policies you could be on the hook personally in an accident. If your personal insurance gets wind of any commercial activity they can refuse any claim. Ubers will back you up but only at the lower levels of coverage, not the 1 million like when you have a passenger in the car.


----------



## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

_"Uber will back you up" _[on anything, ever]
Source, please. Examples of Uber's insurance policy helping out a driver whose private claim was denied.

People are always going in circles when we talk about insurance. In insurance, an unanswered question is the exact same thing as a gap in coverage. I need examples, more than one of them, of something happening and Uber helping the driver sort through it. Everyone here gets in fender benders, and if it's not insured I would be looking at anything from a $6,000 bill to the total loss of my unpaid-for car.


----------



## Johnny O (Jul 3, 2014)

grams777 said:


> After looking at the insurance in some detail, it appears there is extra coverage when you are at a public airport. Best I can tell, at a public airport it means you have the higher limit primary insurance if you are waiting for a request, as well as to/during a ride, or exiting the airport after a ride. This should mean this is already close to meeting most airport insurance requirements (except for the additional named insured issue for example). I do not remember seeing this in the Lyft policy. If not, Uber's is slightly superior in this respect.
> 
> Note the following from the new Uber insurance policy (California version). Symbol 10 refers to the $1 million primary coverage (see declaration page and endorsement 28).
> 
> ...


Where do we find that document? Also, why hasn't Uber notified drivers in Los Angeles about the insurance while still covered on LAX property?


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Johnny O said:


> Where do we find that document? Also, why hasn't Uber notified drivers in Los Angeles about the insurance while still covered on LAX property?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/234793312/Ridesharing-Insurance-Policy-7-14-14

I don't know about the communication reasons.


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Johnny O said:


> Also, why hasn't Uber notified drivers in Los Angeles about the insurance while still covered on LAX property?


Johnny they did that in the insurance policy to satisfy LAX landside operations. Now weather they will go for that scheme is an entirely different story that I am sure they are working on behind the scenes. I am sure all the risk assessment lawyers are looking at it and making their recommendations to LAX and the City. IF they gt it through I will be amazed. Who ever heard of commercial insurance that is in effect only only on certain roads. Quite ingenious.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

http://www.jamesriverins.com/financials.aspx
According to the James River Insurance's Annual Report, only $33,000 was paid out in claims on it's commercial auto liability insurance products! (Page 9 of the pdf)
Have any UberX or Lyft drivers' (JR insures both companies) claims been paid by this insurer?


----------



## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> http://www.jamesriverins.com/financials.aspx
> According to the James River Insurance's Annual Report, only $33,000 was paid out in claims on it's commercial auto liability insurance products! (Page 9 of the pdf)
> Have any UberX or Lyft drivers' (JR insures both companies) claims been paid by this insurer?


I appreciate you digging into this.
This is definitely a job for more than one professional reporter.


----------



## jakob (Jul 16, 2014)

Hey guys, I have a question and need help so anyone who can.

1, do I have to notify my insurance that I drive for uber?
2, do I need to add anything special to my insurance? I have a full coverage.

Thanks guys.


----------



## jakob (Jul 16, 2014)

Bump..


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Jakob what market are you working in? Some different rules now for Colorado. 

In general no you do not have to notify and you do not have to add anything extra. This does not mean they wont deny a claim and drop you if they somehow find out what you are doing. You are basically committing insurance fraud. You got a policy that says you will not driver people for profit and you are hiding the fact you are doing that. But there is no option. If you tell them they will drop you so really no choice but to take the risk. If you are a person who has a lot of equity in your home or some amount of assets you would hate to loose in a lawsuit this activity may not be for you. If you do not have a pot to piss in and are judgment proof then you are good to go.


----------



## jakob (Jul 16, 2014)

Walkersm, thanks for the reply, I do ubering and also a freelance designer. I don't have anything major under my name, but I have been thinking that I drive average 130miles a day and something might go wrong and I don't want to be denied the claim or be dropped by my insurance since I have been with them for 10years... I am thinking of going to Tripple A and just asking how much would it cost for insurance on a new Prius and squeeze in a question if I can do uber with and see what they say.


----------



## big151red (Aug 12, 2014)

I just signed up for Uber to make some extra money, my full time job is an insurance agent for one of the big companies. I am of course insured with the company my agency is through right now, but that might have to change. I was told by underwriting that we do not cover any livery driving, we would not offer insurance to any one that is driving for Uber or any other TNS. I have started to call other companies so I can switch my insurance, as much as I hate to lose the commission on my own policy, I need an extra job, and Uber seems perfect. I have not had any luck finding any one that will insure me on a personal auto policy, and most commercial insurance won't cover my if I don't get a commercial license. I am trying to find away around all this, I plan on doing the Uber driving no matter what.


----------



## jakob (Jul 16, 2014)

I think at this point we are all taking a chance and I know if incase something happens our own insurance is gonna deny the claim and drop us after and hopefully uber will end up covering our car and damages. It's either if we do get in a accident we pretend not to work for uber or uber needs to come out with an insurance plan that has our name on it and has nothing to do with our own personal insurance. With all this issues with insurance I have no doubt by end of the year they are gonna force us to get commercial license and insurance.


----------



## nspunx4 (Dec 7, 2014)

In Massachusetts a surplus lines insurance company like James river is prohibited by law from writing primary auto liability policies period. In Massachusetts this policy is not legal according to mass general law and as a non admitted company James river is not covered by the insolvency fund or regulated by the division of insurance. 

This policy by law cannot be primary auto liability in mass period. 

It won't let me link it but it's MGL chapter 175 section 168 paragraph b


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

We have something similar in CA but the wording goes something like: must be an admitted carrier in CA unless the type of insurance needed is not offered by any CA admitted carrier. And no CA admitted carrier will offer a national policy for taxi driving. In the end Uber is basically self insuring through their investors propping James River up.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite (Nov 11, 2014)

nspunx4 said:


> In Massachusetts a surplus lines insurance company like James river is prohibited by law from writing primary auto liability policies period. In Massachusetts this policy is not legal according to mass general law and as a non admitted company James river is not covered by the insolvency fund or regulated by the division of insurance.
> 
> This policy by law cannot be primary auto liability in mass period.
> 
> It won't let me link it but it's MGL chapter 175 section 168 paragraph b


As usual the great state of Massachusetts leads the way in common sense.


----------



## nspunx4 (Dec 7, 2014)

Every admitted insurer in mass pays into an insolvency fund that ensures claims will be paid even if the underwriter goes bankrupt they are also regulated by the division of insurance so you are protected if they try to deny a valid claim. Surplus lines or non admitted companies don't have these vital consumer protections so yes it does make sense. Very good sense.


----------



## nspunx4 (Dec 7, 2014)

See page 2 second to last paragraph


----------



## GAVRIEL GAVRILOV (Dec 26, 2014)

I dont understand why other cities/towns or states don't have insurance companies that only cater to livery and for hire vehicles


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite (Nov 11, 2014)

GAVRIEL GAVRILOV said:


> I dont understand why other cities/towns or states don't have insurance companies that only cater to livery and for hire vehicles


They do. It's called commercial insurance, and it's very expensive.


----------



## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

GAVRIEL GAVRILOV said:


> I dont understand why other cities/towns or states don't have insurance companies that only cater to livery and for hire vehicles


There are just a few carriers that specialize in that sort of Insurance but there are plenty of brokers all over that write policies for those few carriers. But the fact is many of them do not want to deal with new start up limo companies. Don't want to deal with part timer operators, or people that are not legitimately starting a going venture business.. Not just some yahoo wanting a part time job.

They want to things in place like: Investment in assets, training of employees to keep those assets safe, commercial drivers licences for all drivers, a first hire and random drug and alcohol testing policy. You know things that mitigate risk and prevent payouts on the insurance. In other words they only want to put their assets at risk for people that are serious about the transportation industry.


----------



## nspunx4 (Dec 7, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> There are just a few carriers that specialize in that sort of Insurance but there are plenty of brokers all over that write policies for those few carriers. But the fact is many of them do not want to deal with new start up limo companies. Don't want to deal with part timer operators, or people that are not legitimately starting a going venture business.. Not just some yahoo wanting a part time job.
> 
> They want to things in place like: Investment in assets, training of employees to keep those assets safe, commercial drivers licences for all drivers, a first hire and random drug and alcohol testing policy. You know things that mitigate risk and prevent payouts on the insurance. In other words they only want to put their assets at risk for people that are serious about the transportation industry.


My experience is that at least in mass I could get a commercial livery policy without doing any of the above mentioned things when I first started. I know others who insure one livery vehicle, with no "experience" for 3-5,000 a year for 1 million CSL real 24 hour 7 day a week primary commercial auto liability insurance. That is 57.69-96.15 a week or 8.21-13.69 a day. Less than a large value meal at a fast food joint a day. Of course YMMV depending on your driving record and what territory they write you for.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

^^^^ the low end of 3,000 isnt bad. but 5,000 year um no way
especially for part time folks


----------



## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

A lot depends on the city/town you live in too. If I moved just one town over, my insurance would almost double.


----------



## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> There are just a few carriers that specialize in that sort of Insurance but there are plenty of brokers all over that write policies for those few carriers. But the fact is many of them do not want to deal with new start up limo companies. Don't want to deal with part timer operators, or people that are not legitimately starting a going venture business.. Not just some yahoo wanting a part time job.
> 
> They want to things in place like: Investment in assets, training of employees to keep those assets safe, commercial drivers licences for all drivers, a first hire and random drug and alcohol testing policy. You know things that mitigate risk and prevent payouts on the insurance. In other words they only want to put their assets at risk for people that are serious about the transportation industry.


_I have commercial insurance here in CA. Of course I have my TCP permit. I pay$280 per month._


----------



## Tommyo (Aug 18, 2014)

I have no doubt that Uber insurance is primary.....for Uber.


----------

