# Just got out of court ...



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I’m not going to make it easy.

I plead not guilty and had to “post bail” in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.

I sent a subpoena to the ‘arresting officer’ for ‘any and all records that pertain to the installation, and maintenance of the camera and any of its systems or software.” Also I wanted “any and all operating manuals, installation manuals”, and “details of any software updates, the dates of those updates and the reason for the updates, if any.”

About a week later I get a letter from the ‘arresting officer’ asking that I contact him via phone. I called and he explained that what I was asking for was a stack of paper (if printed) over 24 inches tall. He asked if I could receive it as a pdf file, I said ‘no’. He asked if I could come to his office and again I said ‘no’. He asked why and I said I wished to stand with my fifth amendment rights and not answer any questions unless his office wanted to provide me with a court appointed attorney. I then confirmed that he had my correct mailing address and terminated the call.

Court date rolls around and I haven’t gotten my documents. The ADA is there on court date and asks me out to the hall for a ‘quick chat’ before the judge sits down. She said she’d reduce the charge and my fine would be under $100 if I’d plead guilty. I thanked her for the offer and declined. She said, “We both know what you did, that was you driving wasn’t it?” I declined to answer any questions.

Court convened. I waited about an hour and I was hoping the cop wouldn’t show, but he did. He looked like he was about 17. They were putting down drivers about every two minutes … guilty after guilty. Called my case.

The ADA showed the picture – that was their entire case. They rested their case and I was offered an opportunity to cross. I pointed out that I had an outstanding subpoena that had been ignored and asked for a postponement to allow the officer a chance to respond. The judge asked me, “Is that you driving the car?” I responded that there was a motion before the bench and “I await a ruling from your honor on that motion.” He frowned at me and granted my motion for a postponement.

Office Doukie Houser stopped me in the hallway and really tried to get me to admit it was me, and said that if it wasn’t I should tell him who it was. I refused to talk to him off record and without an attorney. And left.

No other contact from ADA or cops. Next court date rolls around. Same thing, different day. Guilty after guilty. My case is called. ADA shows the pix, it is given over to me for cross. I again point out (to the same judge) that there is an ignored subpoena and this time motion to dismiss. Judge says, “Come on Mr. Smith, it is obvious that you are driving that car and that you ran a red light.” I didn’t say anything as he didn’t ask a question, instead I restated my motion for dismissal.

He ignored my motion again, and asked (while looking at the picture), “I see an Uber sticker in your front windshield, do you drive for Uber?” I said, “Your honor, I am not here as a witness and will not be testifying, I am here to defend myself against these charges. If I am to be compelled to answer questions I would like to have a court appointed attorney to advise me, as is my fifth amendment rights.” He looked at me with his sternest ‘judge’ look. And I added, “and I am waiting for a ruling on my motion, your honor. The arresting officer has had ample opportunity to respond ...” He interrupted me, put his hand up in a 'stop' motion. I shut up in mid sentence. 

He said, “You have been given the opportunity to view the records you asked for, and you have not taken advantage of that. I am denying your motion for dismissal. Do you want to present a defense, or should I make a ruling?"

I thought for a second and I said, “The issue of my being given an opportunity to see the records has not been brought up in court your honor, and it is therefore not a matter of record. I am curious as to how you know this information.” An awkward silence descended on the court room. You could have heard a pin drop. 

Judge leans forward and says, “You are wasting this courts time. Present your defense or I will make a finding right now.”

I said, “I don’t have anything to defend your honor. The prosecution has not presented anything to this court except a fuzzy picture of somebody in my car. I am not being allowed due process, there has apparently been ex-parte communication between the DA’s office and your office, and evidence to prove my innocence is being purposefully withheld. I fully intend to appeal an unfavorable decision by you. And again, I restate my motion to dismiss.”

The judge turned red. Seriously red. I thought he was going to stroke out. There were veins bulging in his neck. I just knew I was going to jail. He yelled, yes yelled. “I have already ruled on that motion MR SMITH, and if you bring it up again I will find you in contempt of court. Do you understand the ramifications of that, MR. SMITH?”

Before I could answer that I did, the ADA stood up and said, “Your honor, in the interest of justice The People wish to withdraw our complaint and join with the defendant in requesting a dismissal.” 

Judge took a deep breath, sat back down and said, “As you wish, case dismissed. Five minute break.” And stood up and left quickly. 

I turned around and the whole courtroom, every person in there was smiling from ear to ear. As I left I got two fist bumps, and a high five and someone muttered “brass balls”.

I should get my $550 back in about ten days. Intend to take wifey out on the town with it. Dinner, theatre, drinks and, yes, an Uber ride home.
Mebe I'll even get lucky.


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## sirius black (Apr 20, 2017)

Only thing missing were two "Yewts." Great story !


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

That takes huge brass ones...

But you have them on record (everything in court is recorded) of having no viable explanation for something EXCEPT Ex parte communication.

Their misdeeds was your only saving grace.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> That takes huge brass ones...
> 
> But you have them on record (everything in court is recorded) of having no viable explanation for something EXCEPT Ex parte communication.
> 
> Their misdeeds was your only saving grace.


I don't believe that to be true.
I don't think they could prove that it was me behind the wheel.
It didn't look like me. 
I am much better looking than the old fart in that car.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)




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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

That post deserved a commercial break in the middle.


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## Dmc04005 (Feb 13, 2017)

Your right to an attorney is afforded under the 6th amendment.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> I don't believe that to be true.
> I don't think they could prove that it was me behind the wheel.
> It didn't look like me.
> I am much better looking than the old fart in that car.


Was your car reported stolen?
No?

OK then, give us the name, address and ect of the driver and we will send THEM a ticket.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Was your car reported stolen?
> No?
> 
> OK then, give us the name, address and ect of the driver and we will send THEM a ticket.


I could just as easily say , I loaned the car to john but I obviously have no idea who was driving since I wasn't there. They can't compel you to testify.


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## KellyC (May 8, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I'm not going to make it easy.
> 
> I plead not guilty and had to "post bail" in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.
> 
> ...


Good job!!


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

UberBastid said:


> Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I'm not going to make it easy.
> 
> I plead not guilty and had to "post bail" in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.
> 
> ...


You should hang out your lawyer shingle. Great job!


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

I wish everyone would do what you did.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I'm not going to make it easy.
> 
> I plead not guilty and had to "post bail" in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.
> 
> ...


Dont EVER go to that court again !

They will TERMINATE YOU WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE !

You give the others " Ideas".

You disrupt the money making machine.

They will nail you to a cross and hang you by the nails in the hot sun.

Beware.



Dmc04005 said:


> Your right to an attorney is afforded under the 6th amendment.


Public defenders cut pleas at lunch and at the golf course.

Your case is decided before you have a day in court.

If you do not accept the deal, you are
" punished".

All but the cheesiest public Defenders belong to the same country clubs as the judges.



Disgusted Driver said:


> I could just as easily say , I loaned the car to john but I obviously have no idea who was driving since I wasn't there. They can't compel you to testify.


Didnt that guy look like the Valet at the resturant ?
What was the time stamp on that picture again ?


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## AuxCordBoston (Dec 3, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I'm not going to make it easy.
> 
> I plead not guilty and had to "post bail" in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.
> 
> ...


Where did you learn how to navigate the criminal justice system?


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

AuxCordBoston said:


> Where did you learn how to navigate the criminal justice system?


I did some research on line. Talked to a legal assistant who helped with the subpoena. 
The one thing that I learned that helped the most is that once you invoke your right to remain silent (fifth amendment) if you answer a judges question, JUST ONE, then you have given up your right to remain silent. You can't choose which questions to answer - you truly cant answer any. "Are you an Uber driver?" was an attempted trap. A seemingly harmless question would have hurt me a lot.

Other tips I got was to think very carefully before you say anything. There is no do-overs. If you don't know what to say, say nothing.
Also, don't talk to the cops, ever.
Don't talk to the DA, ever.
Dispute everything. 
If you get really stuck, ask for a continuance, make up a good reason. Allows you to do research.
Make motions; before and after the trial.
Send subpoenas. Lots of them. 
Don't allow anyone to bully you. 
And, never, ever pay a ticket without fighting it.

And, yes, sixth is the right to an attorney.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

nice job!



UberBastid said:


> I am much better looking than the old fart in that car.


They put some old dude's picture on my driver's license, maybe it's the same guy....


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## PTUber (Sep 16, 2015)

I get that its great to fight "the man" but for all the time you spent fighting this was it really worth it when you could of had the fine reduced to less then $100?


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## rhodytarheel (Jun 3, 2016)

This is pretty awesome. I've only had the misfortune of going to traffic court twice in my 25 years of driving, and the two judges I have witnessed have come across as real jerks. Talking down to people, agreeing with the DA at all times, etc. If only more people like you knew their rights and have the cajones to exercise them.


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

Dmc04005 said:


> Your right to an attorney is afforded under the 6th amendment.


This is not true in this case. You only have the right to an attorney when charged with a crime that carries a substantial risk of jail time, usually at least one year. In this case, his fine was $800 and no risk of imprisonment.


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## SailingWithThe Breeze (Feb 22, 2017)

Best story on UP in 2017. You would make Saul Goodman proud!


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## SaintCl89 (May 21, 2017)

This is why red light cameras are becoming illegal in most states. There is no proof to support who was behind the wheel of the vehicle.


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Send subpoenas. Lots of them.


Isn't the proper term demand for discovery? Could be different state by state. Always send a demand for discovery certified mail.
Bombard them with a demand for discovery for anything pertinent as per the OP.

Nice work. I like how the judge tried to bully you.


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## Graham_DC (Apr 17, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I'm not going to make it easy.
> 
> I plead not guilty and had to "post bail" in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.
> 
> ...


I swear judges don't do anything. If the DA/cop says prosecute, they will. If the DA/cop says dismiss, they will.


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## SaintCl89 (May 21, 2017)

There is no cop associated with red light cameras. It's people state of (enter state here) vs. (owner of vehicle)


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

SaintCl89 said:


> There is no cop associated with red light cameras. It's people state of (enter state here) vs. (owner of vehicle)


The one I received from SF a year ago said the video was reviewed by an SF police officer. I think that is how they are trying to get around having someone testify against you since the camera cannot.


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## SaintCl89 (May 21, 2017)

That's odd. It should be reviewed by a private contractor. But I'm not from San Fran.


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

SaintCl89 said:


> That's odd. It should be reviewed by a private contractor. But I'm not from San Fran.


I imagine the initial review to determine if I ran the red was done by a private contractor. But then before the ticket is issued I believe SFPD reviews and signs off.


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## SaintCl89 (May 21, 2017)

Very possible Good show!


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## SaintCl89 (May 21, 2017)

traffic court is kangaroo court anyway.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

You stated that he "sat back down" but never stated that he stood up?


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

10/10 would read again.

....and they said all those nights binge watching 1,086 episodes through 50 combined seasons of Law & order would never pay off!


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

Why was the ticket so high? $800? Maybe I misunderstood?


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## Chauffeur_James (Dec 12, 2014)

SaintCl89 said:


> There is no cop associated with red light cameras. It's people state of (enter state here) vs. (owner of vehicle)


Same here in Phoenix, the ticket was signed "digitally" by a police officer. They have to be the "witness" to the offense


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## colpuck (Nov 15, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Was your car reported stolen?
> invoke 5th amendment
> 
> OK then, give us the name, address and ect of the driver and we will send THEM a ticket.
> invoke 5th amendment again


FTFY


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Someone should dub this with footage from Judge Brown or Judge Judy.


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## Bpr2 (Feb 21, 2017)

PTUber said:


> I get that its great to fight "the man" but for all the time you spent fighting this was it really worth it when you could of had the fine reduced to less then $100?


Priniciple of the thing.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

rhodytarheel said:


> This is pretty awesome. I've only had the misfortune of going to traffic court twice in my 25 years of driving, and the two judges I have witnessed have come across as real jerks. Talking down to people, agreeing with the DA at all times, etc. If only more people like you knew their rights and have the cajones to exercise them.


Your rights under the law are not a secret. They've been pretty well publicized for over two hundred years.
I am 65 years old, I have had to do research before the internet. I've spend DAYS in a library doing research that now I can do with a laptop in my own living room in a few hours.
There is no excuse for not knowing how to defend yourself in simple matters.
I only exercise the rights I want to keep.
Many, many people have fought and died for the rights I enjoy. Not using them is a kick in the nads to EVERY person who has been in uniform and served.

I had nothing to lose. If I'd of lost I would have paid the same fine, same points on my record, same insurance effect.

I expect that, as the thread matures. There's one in every group. A sheeple who believes that the authorities are always right. I don't care about them, their soul is lost.



June132017 said:


> Why was the ticket so high? $800? Maybe I misunderstood?


It is an amazing income source for the City of Redding. Last year it was reported (I believe 2014) it netted over $1.2 mil, and since then they've installed two more cameras. The ticket is, I believe $560. Then there's court costs, and if you want to take a course to save the points you pay the court more, AND the school. 
They are hurting people who really can't afford to pay, and don't have the intelligence or ability to fight.



Woohaa said:


> You stated that he "sat back down" but never stated that he stood up?


And someone else commented that it was too long ... *sigh*. 
Are you an English Composition teacher? Did that ruin the story for you? Is that the only thing you took from the story? You going to ding me one star for that?


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> And someone else commented that it was too long ... *sigh*.
> Are you an English Composition teacher? Did that ruin the story for you? Is that the only thing you took from the story? You going to ding me one star for that?


Fictional stories do have their place I suppose.


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

In Texas red light camera tickets are not police actionable citations. No dings on a driver's license and if you don't pay they can't arrest you. Most people here don't pay them.

Some counties can try to keep you from registering your vehicle but it's down to only a handful now.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

I had to go to court in Santa Clarita several years ago, and the judge was a straight down the line, no nonsense type of person. 

Before the proceedings started he informed the entire courtroom full of defendants that there was no such thing as "Guilty with an excuse", that if they had an excuse to plead not guilty, post bail, and request a new court date. Otherwise plead guilty, and let's keep the docket moving.

Then he said the truest words I've ever heard spoken --

He looked out at the courtroom and told all of us that, "We're not going to take all of your money, but we're going to take a lot of it!"

And I'll be damned if they didn't!


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## crookedhalo (Mar 15, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Was your car reported stolen?
> No?
> 
> OK then, give us the name, address and ect of the driver and we will send THEM a ticket.


 Burden of proof lies with the state, it is not up to you to prove your innocence, it is up to the prosecution to prove your guilt


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## LAHenry (Oct 8, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> the fact that you can ignore a camera ticket, but, doesn't it catch up to you when you need to do business at DMV?


No! The reason it doesn't catch up to you at the DMV is that the LA County Court's policy is that if they do not hear from you, they (the court) will not report you to the DMV.

I anticipate that you might ask, as a follow up: "Won't the city police department that issued the ticket report you to the DMV?" A: They can't! They're allowed to report ignored parking tickets to the DMV, but they're not allowed to report moving violations. Only the court can do that.

Important note: This discussion about ignoring tickets applies only to red light camera tickets from inside LA County, and only if you ignore the ticket completely, make no contact with the court.


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## Jamez400 (Apr 22, 2017)

Im personally tired if seeing red lights ran so much this year. Its stunning. Stunning. People walking off the curb when a red light occured is absoluteltly stunning. . Im Stunned their stunned we all are stunned.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jamez400 said:


> Im personally tired if seeing red lights ran so much this year. Its stunning. Stunning. People walking off the curb when a red light occured is absoluteltly stunning. . Im Stunned their stunned we all are stunned.


Me too, sometimes 3 or 4 cars make left turns AFTER the light turns Red.


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## Atma (May 20, 2015)

UberBastid,

Damn, your awesome.


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## GasHealthTimeCosts (Jul 24, 2017)

I love it, my only question is what would have happened if the ADA did not say anthing there? Great job! I just ignore those red light tickets and they dissappear


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

GasHealthTimeCosts said:


> I love it, my only question is what would have happened if the ADA did not say anthing there? Great job! I just ignore those red light tickets and they dissappear


The ******** judge would have found me guilty, and I would have appealed.
That's not me in the pix.
Simple.


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## NewLyftDriver (Sep 10, 2021)

You're a great story teller but I honestly hold my doubts of the events told


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

NewLyftDriver said:


> You're a great story teller but I honestly hold my doubts of the events told


Um, you realize this is from 2017?


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## NewLyftDriver (Sep 10, 2021)

How is that relevant to whether I believe the contents are factual or not?


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

Isn't it a lot easier for everyone to simply not run red lights?


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## NewLyftDriver (Sep 10, 2021)

.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

welikecamping said:


> Isn't it a lot easier for everyone to simply not run red lights?


Oh sure.
It would have been easier if I'd of used a Trojan rather than raising someone for eighteen years who hates me for doing it.
It would have been easier if I'd of gone to medical school and become a famous plastic surgeon to the stars.
It would have been easier ...

But, things don't always work out the way we plan.
Well, maybe they do for you, but it has never happened to me.

And when things go to chit (because eventually they will) sometimes you gotta fall back and make them follow the same rules they expect you to follow ... you know, the law. 
Want a break? Give a break. Don't wanna give a break once in a while? Work for it.

Plead 'not guilty' to all traffic offenses.
Always.
It is your civic duty.


.


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

All well and good, but it is quite easy to avoid running red lights making all the legal mumbo-jumbo unnecessary.. All the rest is just gaming the system, that is until you run a red light and kill someone. More power to you for working it though.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

UberBastid said:


> Fighting a red light camera traffic ticket. They wanted almost $800 plus to just pay it off, I figured they may get into my pocket, but I’m not going to make it easy.
> 
> I plead not guilty and had to “post bail” in the amount of $550 in order to fight it.
> 
> ...


Well done, Sir. Very, very well done, indeed! 💪


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

This was a very old OP.

.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

welikecamping said:


> All well and good, but it is quite easy to avoid running red lights making all the legal mumbo-jumbo unnecessary.. All the rest is just gaming the system, that is until you run a red light and kill someone. More power to you for working it though.


How do you know I ran a red light?
It was never proven in a court of law, so, in fact I did NOT run a red light.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

NewLyftDriver said:


> .


Well said.


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