# DC considering Uber in place of ambulances for some patients



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

www.wtop.com/dc/2016/07/dc-considering-uber-in-place-of-ambulances-for-some-patients/


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Many medical transport companies already exist.

Lucrative social security & Medicare/ Medicaid $$

Can purchase at auction $4,000.00 or less ,diesel cutaway 16 passenger van, 4-6 years old with chair lift.

Won't do it for .90 CENTS a mile though !

Also perfect for ball games,and conventions.bachelor/ bachelorete parties.
Room to strap down up to 5 bulky electric wheelchairs in addition to ambulatory passengers.


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

The Washington D.C. Fire and EMS Department is considering a plan to use Uber to transport low priority 911 callers, according to NBC Washington. It's a horrible idea.

Washington's plan is to hire a team of nurses who could evaluate a caller's condition over the phone and direct them to an Uber if they are deemed stable. Already this is odd given that the purpose of an emergency responder is to evaluate the condition of a 911 caller.

"Someone who fell and broke his/her ankle could have potential underlying conditions," said Alexia Haralambous, a DC area EMT. "A diabetic emergency, that had not yet fully presented itself, could have caused the event. Through a full EMT protocol, the responder would likely eventually check the glucose levels of the patient and determine that there is something larger."

To account for potential deterioration in the condition of a transport, the Uber would need to be equipped with sirens, lights, and an extensive radio system for communication, added Haralambous.

A few weeks ago I needed to get some stitches out of my chin so I visited a local clinic. While I was there, I saw a man get an EKG after displaying signs of heart trouble. The man went to the clinic under the impression that he was suffering a routine ailment. Unfortunately, the diagnosis was severe. The doctors on-site recommended an immediate ambulance transport but the man decided to self-transport instead. This person was not only risking his own life but the lives of everyone on the road. Even with training, it's unlikely that a ride-sharing driver would be able to ensure both patient and vehicle safety. Even if this patient was in the backseat, rapid deterioration could catch a driver off-guard and trigger an accident.

Such a partnership is not an extreme departure from previous car-sharing partnerships. Uber told TechCrunch that it already has healthcare partnerships in select cities in Florida and Georgia. Uber helps seniors and the chronically disabled in Atlanta get to doctors appointments, fitness classes and other similar services. In Gainesville, Florida, Uber partnered with local stakeholders to provide technology tutorials to seniors on how the service could be used to maintain mobility and freedom.

We reached out to Lyft, and the company reported similar goals to aid in the transportation of populations that struggle to maintain mobility:

Lyft's mission is ensuring people who need rides the most are able to get them. We are in ongoing discussions with public agencies and private businesses around the country about how we can work collaboratively to expand mobility options for those previously underserved by transportation options. We are proud to bring seniors - many of whom have regular medical appointments and limited transportation options - a reliable, safe, and affordable way to get around.

In all of these partnerships, the decision-making power rests with the rider. A rider can choose to ride whenever and wherever they would like. The problem with DC's plan is that the health and safety of 911 callers would rest on the shoulders of a remote nurse who would be unable to visually assess the condition of a caller. This puts the patient in an unnecessarily dangerous situation simply because the city's budget cannot keep up with 911 call volume.

That said, props to DC for contemplating an out of the box solution to a serious problem. We just don't need to Uber everything. Maybe next time.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

LA Cabbie said:


> The Washington D.C. Fire and EMS Department is considering a plan to use Uber to transport low priority 911 callers, according to NBC Washington. It's a horrible idea.
> 
> Washington's plan is to hire a team of nurses who could evaluate a caller's condition over the phone and direct them to an Uber if they are deemed stable. Already this is odd given that the purpose of an emergency responder is to evaluate the condition of a 911 caller.
> 
> ...


< E.M.T.-B, C.N.A. , 1 1/2 yr. L.P.N. SCHOOL( top of class 93,had to quit due to domestic issue)

You are right.

If someone goes into cardiac arrest,cerebral embolism, pulmonary embolism,hypoglycemic shock or coma en route, what you going to do ?

Eye and head injuries projectile vomit,without warning.

You GOT to take vital signs gns to relay to dispatch nurse.

Pull over and call 911 ?
Do C.P.R. till they cough up blood all over?
I've got training.
It's not a 1 man job.

Now if it's a kid with fever or a sprained ankle,maybe so.

Uber Ebola ..90 CENTS a mile.
20 rides after, the C.D.C. is ready to bury Uber and anyone involved.
( squirrels in western states still pop up with black plague)

I carry ozium which kills germs.
I've had to enlist help at the scene of fatal accidents in the dark because their car knocked live power line down onto the street.

I've run around in yards with a bic lighter looking for ejected bodies.
Poor guys I got to help had nightmare for 2 decades.

I don't think it's a good idea for MOST Uber drivers.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

For years, people have used taxicabs as discount ambulances. At times, the consequences have been disastrous. There have been some comments posted to these Boards about people's using Uber as a discount ambulance. It is only a matter of time before there is a disaster in the back seat of an Uber.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

How about a bee sting allergy,peanut allergy,had a cousin who could die if he touched a silk shirt !

You think your average Uber driver can handle anaphylactic shock,when the ride starts with minor symptoms presented ?

Carry atropine in console ?
A contact or benadryl can sometimes slow it or stop it if you have no other choice. Only if you have no other choice.any antihistamine,pseudoephedrine,epinephrine,ephedrine sulfate.
But ignore this ,I am not a dr. Or responsible for accuracy.study it yourself.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> For years, people have used taxicabs as discount ambulances. At times, the consequences have been disastrous. There have been some comments posted to these Boards about people's using Uber as a discount ambulance. It is only a matter of time before there is a disaster in the back seat of an Uber.


If there were a large scale disaster similar to a 911 type situation,I would fold the back seat down and do it for free.

On a daily basis?
Ridiculous risk for all involved.

Now I would drive mini van from group home to Dr. Appointments.
More than qualified.
Not for .90 CENTS a mile !

Would start my own company to do that.

Look up Nosocomial infections.

Look at the rate for well established supervised hospitals with excellent housekeeping.

Look up what a staph infection can do to you and how long it takes to get rid of.

NO WAY !

Give me a mini bus of Downs syndrome kids going to Dr.,and we will cut up and have fun the whole way.Even know how to get them out of trouble if one chokes.

This other idea,no way.
Trach care,or diaper change on quadriplegic en route?
" Donny" pulled his catheter out again and it leaked all over the floor.
Uber lost their mind.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

I have a rule. NO ONE BLEEDS in my car.


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## rtaatl (Jul 3, 2014)

Wait til someone codes on an Uber ride, dies and the family sues the local jurisdiction because they were recommended to take Uber instead of an ambulance.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

rtaatl said:


> Wait til someone codes on an Uber ride, dies and the family sues the local jurisdiction because they were recommended to take Uber instead of an ambulance.


Where you going to carry a back board to do C.P.R. ?
DRAG them out the car convulsing onto cement on side of car in dark with a emergency flashers on ?
Hope you don't get killed in accident or car jacked whIle doing C.P.R. ?
TALK TO 911 ON speakerphone between breaths and chest compressions ?
( ummm sorry about the c-3 compression and the hairline skull fractures and lacerations,had to drag him out car quick when he coded,was by myself . . . jury awards family $3.5 million. 10 years manslaughter !)


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> I have a rule. NO ONE BLEEDS in my car.


Blood flakes off vinyl and skin when it dries.cloth and leather,you're going to have to work at it.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Driver: There is a blood all over the floor and back seat. Can you please charge the rider a cleaning fee?
Uber CSR: Sorry the rider is dead and cannot be charged. Thanks for providing them a 5 star ride to the hospital. Uber on!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Driver: There is a blood all over the floor and back seat. Can you please charge the rider a cleaning fee?
> Uber CSR: Sorry the rider is dead and cannot be charged. Thanks for providing them a 5 star ride to the hospital. Uber on!


Then his kids set you ablaze with molotav balloons on the street 15 years later . . .


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## up the river (Aug 22, 2015)

I don't see a state doing this for one simple reason..Insurance..We have to cars that provide a somewhat similar service to dss and hospital patients going home from the ed. There is only one insurance company that I could find that would write non emergency medical transportation insurance and they are out of Fla. My cost is almost double what I pay for commercial insurance. So is uber going to say well you have to have commercial insurance and that 350 a month with a great record plus nemti that will run 575 a month if they will underwrite you. So thats 925 more per month in insurance so you can make that life changing 90 cent a mile...um nooo ...


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> For years, people have used taxicabs as discount ambulances. At times, the consequences have been disastrous. There have been some comments posted to these Boards about people's using Uber as a discount ambulance. It is only a matter of time before there is a disaster in the back seat of an Uber.


To be fair, I have had my fair share of rides in place of ambulances. Luckily the folks who summoned me knew that I was a mere driver and my taxi was not much better than their own car. The problem with Uber is how they market themselves. Just like passengers don't tip because they believe Uber's no tipping policy, they too shall believe that an Uber driver with his or her personal car is a replacement for an Ambulance with trained EMT.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

LA Cabbie said:


> To be fair, I have had my fair share of rides in place of ambulances. Luckily the folks who summoned me knew that I was a mere driver and my taxi was not much better than their own car. The problem with Uber is how they market themselves. Just like passengers don't tip because they believe Uber's no tipping policy, they too shall believe that an Uber driver with his or her personal car is a replacement for an Ambulance with trained EMT.


I've got a white lab coat and a couple of stethoscope S in the closet.
I slap on a name tag and a Caduceus,and people would be calling me Dr. Left and right.Happened in nursing school as a student 23-24 years ago.
People SEE what they want to see.

Not good.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

^^^^^^^^^We had this cab driver here who was the King of the OOM-WAH-WAH. Not only was he driving a cab without a hack licence, not only did he have a fleet of cabs that he rented out, he was masquerading as a doctor at Sibley Hospital, which caters to the one-per-cent, here. He literally put on a white laboratory coat, name tag with the Staff or Hermes and made rounds at Sibley. He had the demeanour down, until a veteran nurse started to ask questions. He lit out of there one step ahead of the Police.

This guy owed everyone in the city. He tried to approach me to lend him a few dollars to register a new rental cab that he was putting on the street. As I have seen the Beta Sigma act more than a few times in my life, I already knew that this guy was a fraud, so I told him that I had to go to buy an alternator for my car. 

On the Chryslers of that era, it was a believable story. Those sixty amp alternators did not last long. Fortunately, it took twenty minutes to change out one; thirty if you stopped for a cigaret once you got out the old one. It was one of the jobs on a Chrysler where you needed a socket in addition to the seven-sixteenths and the half. You needed a five-eighths to undo the big bolt on the sixty amp alternator.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Blood flakes off vinyl and skin when it dries.cloth and leather,you're going to have to work at it.


The CAAAHHPETS. I'm worried about the CAAAHHPETS!


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## Brandon0315 (May 5, 2016)

If the rides were incentivized at a multiple of 2.-3., would you be more welcome to the idea?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Brandon0315 said:


> If the rides were incentivized at a multiple of 2.-3., would you be more welcome to the idea?


Probably. Right now, METRO Access is paying the cabs a twenty dollar flat rate to run the trips, regardless of what the meter reads. Drivers snatch up the short and medium rides. The longer ones tend to sit until a driver who wants to go that way, anyhow, takes it.


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## SomeDrivingGuy (May 10, 2016)

You could apply online and get paid 700-900 (5 days 8 hours with a provided vehicle) weekly and do uber on the side. I could imagine it would suck to have to get out to help every person, but it's a job.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)




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## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

This is a really bad idea. I drive infrequently for NEMT and we have to be CPR and First Aid certified and the first thing you learn is you're only qualified to help until a professional - doctor, nurse, EMT - gets there. Most NEMT passengers are going to follow up appointments at a doctor or physical therapist's office, or maybe to a pharmacy to get a prescription filled. If a passenger presents an emergency situation during transport, our instructions are to call 911 for assistance. Realistically, you can't perform CPR on the soft seat of a car and we can't move a passenger in distress out of the car.


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## PoorBasterd (Mar 6, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> don't think it's a good idea for MOST Uber drivers.


I don't think this is a good idea for ANY Uber driver. Period. Even if they have full EMS training. There's no talk of this in my neck of the woods; but if there was, I'd want nothing to do with it.

Taking Grandma to her doctors appointment is one thing. But taking a pax who needs urgent medical attention in my car? No thanks. Thats what the ambulance is for.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

I won't be driving from Uber when this kicks in


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

PoorBasterd said:


> I don't think this is a good idea for ANY Uber driver. Period. Even if they have full EMS training. There's no talk of this in my neck of the woods; but if there was, I'd want nothing to do with it.
> 
> Taking Grandma to her doctors appointment is one thing. But taking a pax who needs urgent medical attention in my car? No thanks. Thats what the ambulance is for.


Its obviously not for urgent medical care

Its for low level like taking grandma to an appointment


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

Horrible idea but I know Travis is foaming @ the mouth like a rabid dog over this...


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

You think the smell from puke is bad. Wait until someone with urinary or fecal incontinence lets go in your car. Yikes!


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

A year ago I pulled up to the Sherman Oaks mall and received a call from 'Passenger' on the App. _Hello, you will be picking up our patient, name Bill. Thank you.
_
Turns out Bill had just had his Chemo treatment and his caregiver requested an Uber because Bill's Chemo leaves him unable to drive for 24 hours. Bill didn't look too good, either. I was happy to be there for such, but reading this article makes me think twice....


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Well if the drivers have a pax with an emergency, they should all have the same provilidges as all other emergency vehicle. A built in uber siren, red lights? not a problem.... it's a green light all the way.


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## Trueman (Feb 14, 2016)

The owner of this blog will delete anything you say and is anti - freedom of speech . Then he/she thinks that you'll be punished by blocking you from this site ( LOL - that's funny ) when he/she is actually doing you a favor because now you won't have to read/see whatever the webmaster wants you to read or see .


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## UberPartnerDennis (Jun 21, 2015)

LA Cabbie said:


> To account for potential deterioration in the condition of a transport, the Uber would need to be equipped with sirens, lights, and an extensive radio system for communication, added Haralambous.
> .


Works for me...I have always wanted to zoom around town .. lol... sign me up


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## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

LA Cabbie said:


> To be fair, I have had my fair share of rides in place of ambulances. Luckily the folks who summoned me knew that I was a mere driver and my taxi was not much better than their own car. ...


Yeah, this has happened to me several times too, and I don't think there's any way to stop it. So far no one's died nor have they barfed or bled all over my car.

I'm real doubtful that any governments will make this any kind of official policy. Like someone else has already mentioned, it would open up a whole load of insurance and liability issues.


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## Jinxstone (Feb 19, 2016)

Don't think this will work but if they do try it get ready for a lot more videos of Uber drivers screaming, "GET OUT OF MY CAR!!!!"


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## run26912 (Sep 23, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Driver: There is a blood all over the floor and back seat. Can you please charge the rider a cleaning fee?
> Uber CSR: Sorry the rider is dead and cannot be charged. Thanks for providing them a 5 star ride to the hospital. Uber on!


Hahahaha.. good one! You right!!!!

BONG!!!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

LA Cabbie said:


> In all of these partnerships, the decision-making power rests with the rider. A rider can choose to ride whenever and wherever they would like.


Oh yeah? I thought it rested with the DRIVER.

People with sprained ankles already call Uber/Lyft/Taxi because they know it's not an emergency. If they call 911 the assumption (although it is often not the case, especially in poor communities, which of course brings up the issue of discrimination) should be they have, or think they have, a true emergency.

This is ridiculous on so many levels.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> Its obviously not for urgent medical care
> 
> Its for low level like taking grandma to an appointment


No it specifically is for people who CALLED 911. Not the same thing. Did you actually read it?


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Tequila Jake said:


> This is a really bad idea. Realistically, you can't perform CPR on the soft seat of a car and we can't move a passenger in distress out of the car.


I've heard of TAXI drivers delivering babies. Maybe they've been trained for that. I wonder what mandatory training we would need, and supplies we'd have to keep in our trunk?


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## Lnsky (Jan 2, 2016)

LA Cabbie said:


> The Washington D.C. Fire and EMS Department is considering a plan to use Uber to transport low priority 911 callers, according to NBC Washington. It's a horrible idea.
> 
> Washington's plan is to hire a team of nurses who could evaluate a caller's condition over the phone and direct them to an Uber if they are deemed stable. Already this is odd given that the purpose of an emergency responder is to evaluate the condition of a 911 caller.
> 
> ...


Exactly and you need to check with your auto carrier on this as this specific kind of transport may be excluded. If your actions or lack there of complicated his condition or lead to death that isn't an exposure your policy is designed to pick up. Is the city going to cover you or make you exempt from suit under FTCA? If not I wouldn't bother down that path. Literally no one has your back out on the road the city included.


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## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

Soooo.... If a Paxient gets light headed in the food court of the mall and decides to call an Uberlance... and I get the ping:
A. Am I supposed to come inside the mall looking for the pin drop?
B. Can I park my car on the curb and not worried about getting towed or ticketed?
C. If the Paxient has a 4.5 rating and I cancel, and they die... Is Eewber going to place me on a 20 min. timeout for too many cancels?
D. Is it OK for me to give them a printed sign offering great service, free electrolyte (Gatorade or Pedialyte) and free aspirines, and still ask for a tip?

p.s. I won't accept UberFool request, I don't care if it's an emergency


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## UberPartnerDennis (Jun 21, 2015)

Manotas said:


> Soooo.... If a Paxient gets light headed in the food court of the mall and decides to call an Uberlance... and I get the ping:
> A. Am I supposed to come inside the mall looking for the pin drop?
> B. Can I park my car on the curb and not worried about getting towed or ticketed?
> C. If the Paxient has a 4.5 rating and I cancel, and they die... Is Eewber going to place me on a 20 min. timeout for too many cancels?
> ...


Ok....option C caused me to spit out my coffee laughing.....i will send uber the bill for a new keyboard


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

I drove an Ambulette for a couple of weeks (the company sucked). Took a lot of only minorly disabled people to appointments. Some of those people could easily have used Uber to get to their medical appointments and didn't need an overpriced government paid for medical transport.

Honestly I'd be all for the system taking a look at their costs and realized that some patients would be easier to ship around via Uber. Were not talking anyone in a wheelchair or otherwise seriously disabled or possibly critically in need of medical attention. These are just people that need to get to appointments, and if the government wasn't paying for it already they'd probably be calling a tax or using Uber on their own.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

What could possible go wrong? Lol


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## Lack9133 (Mar 26, 2015)

This already occurs in taxi's. I would say 80% of my company's business is medical related running individuals to and from the hospital for medical and non medical emergencies.


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## GothamUberSignal (Aug 10, 2016)

This is such a BAD idea. What happens if the passenger has a medical emergency? What happens if the passenger injures themselves?

Its a lawsuit waiting to happen. MetroAccess is already contracted out to private companies but the council is trying to get rid of it entirely by passing Paratransit services onto the TNC's which is laughable.

"Hey I know we had huge wheelchair accessible van for you but um, we're gonna need you to squeeze into the back of this Honda Civic"

I just see someone getting sued and Uber not offering any support when it happens, MetroAccess drivers do have to undergo specialized training and morale is always low because they are paid like dirt. Not to mention most drivers wouldn't have the patience required to deal with the sick, injured and elderly.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> www.wtop.com/dc/2016/07/dc-considering-uber-in-place-of-ambulances-for-some-patients/


Another lawsuit waiting to happen


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