# End of the Road for Taxis?



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Taxis are staring down the barrel of defeat in NYC, DC, Boston, and more cities across the USA. Personally, I think there will be a reduced market for taxis, limos, and shuttle vans for many years to come. Also see https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-lyft-uncompetitive-edge-over-taxis.189080/
_____

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/29/new-york-yellow-cabs-taxis-uber-lyft
* End of the road? New York's cabs face uncertain future in wake of Uber and Lyft *
29 July 2017 by Edward Helmore - Ride-sharing apps are cutting into the taxi market and City Hall is not inclined to help. Is an American institution staring down the barrel of defeat?









Taxis in Times Square, New York City. The city's fleet of yellow taxis is looking increasingly ramshackle and road-worn. Photograph: JG Photography/Alamy

The yellow taxis of Manhattan have long been part of the city's fabric, their energy woven into New York's enduring cultural mythology, from the comedy of Taxi to Robert de Niro's Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.

But the system of city-licensed yellow cabs could now be breaking down, taking with it a key stepping stone to a middle-class life for waves of immigrants who make up more than 90% of drivers.

A Morgan Stanley report has found that in April 2016, the 13,587 yellow cabs in New York City completed 11m trips - a fall of 9% on the previous year. In the same month, 5.5m Uber, Lyft and car-service trips were made. The shift is expected to accelerate as app-based services gain ground, savaging the underlying economics of the yellow-cab business.

"Yellow cabs are finished," a black-car driver, Jagdish, said last week. "Uber stole all the business."

Two years ago, Jagdish said, his brother paid $630,000 for a medallion, or permit, for a yellow cab. "Now it's worth half of that. He's got two kids and he's barely making ends meet." Black cars - car-service vehicles booked by telephone - are doing no better, he added.

Prices for medallions licensed by the city's Taxi and Limousine Commission peaked at more than $1m in 2013. Now, declining values have left many operators financially underwater. Individual owner-drivers may be hardest hit, caught in a credit crunch.

Sitting in an Indian café favored by taxi drivers in Chelsea, Jagdish said immigrants should be warned that driving a car for a living is no longer a way into the middle class.

"If you want to punish somebody," he said, "tell them to come to New York and drive for a living. If you don't like someone, get them to do this."

Three New York-based credit unions specialising in loaning money against medallions have been placed in administration. The fleet of yellow taxis is looking increasingly ramshackle and road-worn.

One driver said it had become difficult to compete with services like Uber, in part because yellow cabs are often fleet-owned, driven 24 hours a day and dirty. Uber cars, privately owned and operated, are not under the same pressures of use.

"Everybody likes Uber because it's neat and clean," said Utpal Sarkar, who came to the US from Pakistan six years ago, while driving a battered Honda. While he earns less than an Uber driver, he said, he still pulled in twice what he earned from shifts at Dunkin' Donuts.
Uber's popularity is not universal. In New York City, which faces a crisis over the dilapidation of its subway and rail systems, the boom in app-based rides has led to increased congestion.

A Schaller Consulting report issued in February found that app-based services have caused a increase of 600m vehicle miles annually, or a 3% to 4% jump in citywide traffic. Average traffic speed has dropped from 12mph in to 2011 to 8.1mph now.

The crisis has put pressures on the city's mayor, Bill de Blasio, who faces re-election later this year, and Democratic state governor Andrew Cuomo, who controls the purse strings of public transport and is rumored to be eyeing a presidential run in 2020.

Earlier this year, de Blasio said he would not bail out the yellow-cab industry or seek to curb the newcomers. "Free-market dynamics &#8230; created an opening for Lyft, Uber and others," he said, "and the taxi industry has to learn from that."

Economists echo de Blasio's position. One, Keith Leggett, reasons that the yellow-cab industry was for years protected from competition but is "now having to adapt to a nimble competitor, so we're seeing a lot of pain for medallion owners". The yellow cabs' market share may have shrunk dramatically, "but they still represent the majority of rides in the city".

Supporters of the yellow cabs claim app-based services enjoy advantages, such as not paying a public transportation improvement surcharge.

If the industry is indeed at a crossroads, what is New York in danger of losing? Graham Hodges, author of Taxi!, a social history of New York's "hackers", said "the New York City cab driver personifies the energy and zeal" of the city, and hacking remains "one of the great acculturating forces in American society".

The fall in value of taxi medallions could ultimately tease out fleet owners and allow small individual operators to prosper as they once did, Hodges said.

"There could be a silver lining to this. People who invested in medallions at very high prices are mostly fleet owners and brokers. The drop in the price of medallions could make it more affordable for the average owner-driver."

Hodges believes there is little likelihood city government will simply relinquish control of the yellow-cab system to Uber and Lyft, and predicts the refusal of the political class to deal with the plight of yellow cabs will ultimately backfire as congestion contributes to some "tragic accident" that will force politicians to act.

"When that happens it's not going to be the medallion operations that lose out but these other services that are only quasi-legitimate to begin with," he said. "There is a future for the taxi industry and future for the value of medallion.

"And I'd make a strong case for bonds of attachment between drivers and the city."


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

When the next economic downturn hits and 50k drivers are no longer able to make ends meet at half the wage they made 20 years ago, then you can bet officials will move against uber. Its not in anyones best interest. The only thing that uber truly innovated is uber pool and by that action they crushed everyone from the mta to taxis. Medallions are going to have their 15 mins of fame again. You just have to pick the bottom. I think the bottom will be 6 months into the next downturn.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Taxis will never hit the end of the road. They will just become a 4 door sub compact vehicle of no particular color that charges some ridiculously cheap rate. And taxi drivers will be newly licensed individuals with no area knowledge and that can be very easily taken advantage of. I said this a million times in this forum, call it what you want, Rideshare, Taxi, Livery, Friggin Compensated Hitchhiking it's still fare for hire. A driver is compensated for transporting a person from one place to another. Press a button on an app, make a phone call, raise your hand on a city street, send smoke signals, it doesn't matter how you summons for transportation it's still fare for hire. The only aspect of the fare for hire industry that has changed in the past 3 years is price. While all other goods and services have increased in price, some dramatically, the price for fare for hire has dropped more then 70%. Good for all, especially the drivers. 
Can you imagine your $1000/month mortgage now only being $300. Can you imagine paying $.80/gal for gasoline. Can you imagine a major medical plan for a family of four only costing $250/month. That's what the cost of those necessities were when fare for hire was $.80/mile back in the early 80's. 
Good luck to all. Just hope that money is the only thing you lose in this business. It would sure suck to lose your vehicle or worse yet your life to this business for minimum wage.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Fubernuber said:


> When the next economic downturn hits and 50k drivers are no longer able to make ends meet at half the wage they made 20 years ago, then you can bet officials will move against uber. Its not in anyones best interest. The only thing that uber truly innovated is uber pool and by that action they crushed everyone from the mta to taxis. Medallions are going to have their 15 mins of fame again. You just have to pick the bottom. I think the bottom will be 6 months into the next downturn.


They want to BAN HUMAN DRIVING.
THEY WANT ROBOTS.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

As long as TNC's aren't allowed to do street hails taxi's will always have a niche.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> They want to BAN HUMAN DRIVING.
> THEY WANT ROBOTS.


A robot driver won't be able to talk a drunk guy "take me HOME!"

It will require an actual address and some comprehension of what's going on. Simply put there's a LOT of high thinking involved that AI will have trouble with.

After your first drunken accidental trip accross the country while your passed out in a robo-taxi and you will never trust them again.

You know how often my GPS "thinks" i'm trying to go 10+ hours away?

A LOT!



uberdriverfornow said:


> As long as TNC's aren't allowed to do street hails taxi's will always have a niche.


They also can't get that power, that's the ONLY distinction between ride sharing and taxis.

I mean it's really the ONLY legal distinction.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> They want to BAN HUMAN DRIVING.
> THEY WANT ROBOTS.


Enough with this. It only took 40 years for computers to kill typewriters. Stop spreading the stupidity. Nyc wont get robo taxis foe decades (plural)


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> A robot driver won't be able to talk a drunk guy "take me HOME!"


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Maven said:


> Taxis are staring down the barrel of defeat in DC,


DAMN, SAM!!!! I live and drive in the Capital of Your Nation and someone forgot to tell me this. Good to know!



SEAL Team 5 said:


> Taxis will never hit the end of the road.





uberdriverfornow said:


> As long as TNC's aren't allowed to do street hails taxi's will always have a niche.


^^^^^All of the above^^^^^^^^^^^^ Add, that as long as TNCs keep underpaying, they will not keep their drivers. This will force them to maintain a labour/contractor force of inexperienced drivers. As long as TNCs stress the part time work, drivers will not acquire experience. Thus, as long as customers need a driver who knows where he is going and what he is doing, there will be a demand for taxis. There are more customers out there than the TNC elitists will care to admit who do need a driver who knows what he is doing out here.

There is far more to this business than turning a key, releasing the brake, putting the car in gear and hugging a GPS.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Taxis will never hit the end of the road. They will just become a 4 door sub compact vehicle of no particular color that charges some ridiculously cheap rate. And taxi drivers will be newly licensed individuals with no area knowledge and that can be very easily taken advantage of. I said this a million times in this forum, call it what you want, Rideshare, Taxi, Livery, Friggin Compensated Hitchhiking it's still fare for hire. A driver is compensated for transporting a person from one place to another. Press a button on an app, make a phone call, raise your hand on a city street, send smoke signals, it doesn't matter how you summons for transportation it's still fare for hire. The only aspect of the fare for hire industry that has changed in the past 3 years is price. While all other goods and services have increased in price, some dramatically, the price for fare for hire has dropped more then 70%. Good for all, especially the drivers.
> Can you imagine your $1000/month mortgage now only being $300. Can you imagine paying $.80/gal for gasoline. Can you imagine a major medical plan for a family of four only costing $250/month. That's what the cost of those necessities were when fare for hire was $.80/mile back in the early 80's.
> Good luck to all. Just hope that money is the only thing you lose in this business. It would sure suck to lose your vehicle or worse yet your life to this business for minimum wage.


Maybe the best post in the history of this forum.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ^^^^^All of the above^^^^^^^^^^^^ Add, that as long as TNCs keep underpaying, they will not keep their drivers. This will force them to maintain a labour/contractor force of inexperienced drivers. As long as TNCs stress the part time work, drivers will not acquire experience. Thus, as long as customers need a driver who knows where he is going and what he is doing, there will be a demand for taxis. There are more customers out there than the TNC elitists will care to admit who do need a driver who knows what he is doing out here.
> 
> There is far more to this business than turning a key, releasing the brake, putting the car in gear and hugging a GPS.


You're talking about the user experience in the end. I think what you touch on is one piece and in general taxi drivers know all the common areas of the city which work most of the time.

The user experience that matters most though I believe is getting from point to the other total time wise and with processing payments so I can get out to where ever I am going. On 14th st at 9 am I am more likely to order an uber because of variability in when a cab might be available going down 14th st to pick me up plus the fact that I got to go through a credit card exercise once the trip ends. At 6 pm I would use a cab on 14 st because I know that uber pick ups take about 4-5 additional minutes to get to my place and if I hail I usually get one in under a minute. Convenience, speed, and cost are the drivers to which service to use.

I think DC taxis will just become more like uber over time just as other services will:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.8e1530bcf882

The big thing uber still has is accountability where even with new drivers the user experience hasn't changed all that much. The ability to request a ride and have it arrive within the promised amount of time and know if you have issues with the driver you can escalate it matter. Historically complaints is not something well addressed by DC Cabs.

http://wamu.org/story/15/06/15/back...plaints_being_cleared_drawing_ire_of_drivers/

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/...cab-commission-over-discrimination-complaints

These are a few years old so things may be getting better. Cabs really need to take the good from uber and incorporate it in if they want to survive in the long term.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

123dragon said:


> I think what you touch on is one piece and in general taxi drivers know all the common areas of the city which work most of the time.
> 
> The user experience that matters most though I believe is getting from point to the other total time wise and with processing payments so I can get out to where ever I am going.
> 
> ...


I suspect that you got a bit ahead of yourself in the first sentence. If I understand you correctly, you are asserting that the cab drivers know Downtown, Georgetown, Foggy Bottom, H Street, DuPont, the Monuments and Capitol Hill, but nothing else. If that is what you are stating, that is inaccurate. We know more than that.

Indeed, it is convenience that matters most. The slow credit card terminal in the cabs is a sticking point. In fact, it has led me to offer my street hails the opportunity to pay with Uber. It is a dicey process, but it can be done. Supposedly, these new things are going to address that. The change is supposed to be done before Labour Day, but I suspect that most drivers are not even aware that they must make the change. The Regulators have done a poor job of getting out the message. Thus, I suspect that the deadline will be extended. Had the City not demanded that we use these terminals, and, instead had let us use our own, this could have been avoided. Instead, they trampled my Restraint of Trade protections by dictating what terminals that I can use to accept credit cards. I have not hit Powerball, yet, so I can not afford a high powered lawyer to sue the City over this.

I doubt that the street hail will go away. Even you admit that you take advantage of its convenience. I have picked up more than one passenger who was summoning a TNC, saw the cab, hands up, cancel TNC. Convenience is still the primary driver in transportation choices in this market.

The TNCs are not bound by any laws or regulations. In fact, if you read enough of the topics on these Boards, you will learn that the TNCs are de-activating drivers without wanting even to hear the driver's side of it. Even if the Adjudicators do ignore the drivers, they do have to give them the opportunity to make their case. The TNCs are not bound by any such rules. This is another reason why we complain that while the TNCs do what we do, they do not have to play by the same rules that we do. This is a textbook illustration of unfair competition. What makes it worse is that the government is sponsoring this unfair competition instead of making sure that it does not happen.

The cabs have and are taking what they can from the TNCs. Cab hailing applications have been around for some time. In fact, Taxi Magic, not Curb was out there before Uber. What Uber did was eliminate the in-car payment. You do not have in-car payment on Uber Taxi, either. Hail-O did not have it, either. My Taxi offered the customer the choice of in-car or in-application payment. Hail-O and My Taxi now have merged. Both have left North America with no plans to return. I do not know what they are doing in Europe, these days on the payment.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I
> 
> I doubt that the street hail will go away. Even you admit that you take advantage of its convenience. I have picked up more than one passenger who was summoning a TNC, saw the cab, hands up, cancel TNC. Convenience is still the primary driver in transportation choices in this market.


I get that a LOT...

10 minute estimate from uber and line of taxis in front of a hotel... you just want to get on the road and leave...


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Taxis are going nowhere.
What I hear from my pax is they are sick to death of incompetent TNC drivers and they relish my 20 years experience.

Here's a Caveat- my pax are telling me Uber charges them only slightly less than they pay in a cab for a short ride of 3 miles or less.
The DIFFERENCE is traffic. My meter ticks at .50 per minute.
People are going to tire of standing in downtown areas staring at their phone waiting while 10 cabs hover.


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## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

Uber was received in NYC with strong hope of destroying the taxi medallion system and was permitted to operate literally free of the rules applied to yellows cabs. Contrary to all expectations Uber is now becoming an uncontrollable monster and the media is publishing almost daily news of corporate and drivers unprofessional behaviors. Unfortunately The TLC does not have the support of the city and is ill prepared to control this monster in New York City.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Personally i suspect as uber rates creep up the taxis will become competitive again.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

I am sure that Uber is closely monitoring the relationship between recent fare hikes and passenger choice of alternatives to Uber, including taxis.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Maven said:


> I am sure that Uber is closely monitoring the relationship between recent fare hikes and passenger choice of alternatives to Uber, including taxis.


Looks to me like Uber is too busy stepping on its own genitals to do much monitoring of anything.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Looks to me like Uber is too busy stepping on its own genitals to do much monitoring of anything.


You mean like self imolating cars in Singapore?


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Looks to me like Uber is too busy stepping on its own genitals to do much monitoring of anything.


The data analytics operations within Uber is entirely separate from from management's idiocy. There are making major innovations, creating greater potential value than the driver side of Uber's operations. Using the results of the analysis, Both Drivers and Passengers are manipulated and monitored like lab rats, but see none of this value. In addition to this short-term usage, Uber has longer-term plans to profit from the results of the Data analytics operations.


TwoFiddyMile said:


> You mean like self imolating cars in Singapore?


If Uber cannot stop the idiocy and the bleeding then competitors will step in and take over where Uber left off.


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## Matt's your driver (Nov 24, 2016)

I see alot of taxi drivers here in the ATL just sitting around; kind of like all of the Lyft drivers, I encounter, with no riders, in their backseat! Lol.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Taxis will never hit the end of the road. They will just become a 4 door sub compact vehicle of no particular color that charges some ridiculously cheap rate. And taxi drivers will be newly licensed individuals with no area knowledge and that can be very easily taken advantage of. I said this a million times in this forum, call it what you want, Rideshare, Taxi, Livery, Friggin Compensated Hitchhiking it's still fare for hire. A driver is compensated for transporting a person from one place to another. Press a button on an app, make a phone call, raise your hand on a city street, send smoke signals, it doesn't matter how you summons for transportation it's still fare for hire. The only aspect of the fare for hire industry that has changed in the past 3 years is price. While all other goods and services have increased in price, some dramatically, the price for fare for hire has dropped more then 70%. Good for all, especially the drivers.
> Can you imagine your $1000/month mortgage now only being $300. Can you imagine paying $.80/gal for gasoline. Can you imagine a major medical plan for a family of four only costing $250/month. That's what the cost of those necessities were when fare for hire was $.80/mile back in the early 80's.
> Good luck to all. Just hope that money is the only thing you lose in this business. It would sure suck to lose your vehicle or worse yet your life to this business for minimum wage.


I really like you but i dislike what you just said. In 2010 when i had my 2nd child my major medical for 4 cost exactly 414 per month. 0 deductable. 2 geino visits per year for my wife. No copay and no out of pockett. My kids cost me exactly zero to birth. I made much more money than i do now. Infact my insurer didnt care what i made. Fast forward to 2016. My insurance now for family of 5 was 930$ per month under obamacare silver. 8 grand deductable/ out of pickett. Copays for everything. 3rd kid cost around 5 grand to birth. The worst part is that i could not afford the premium or bills so i went uninsured. The kids were mostly fully covered its just us adults that went uninsured. Everytime i meet one of these people who say obamacare is great i want to choke them for being either too young to know anything or too lazy to actually work and too stupid to make good decisions. This robinhood government simply makes and expanding lower class and ever growing upper. Get these policies out. Anti-globalism, protectionism, political incorrectness is what we need.


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## surlywynch (Jun 22, 2017)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Looks to me like Uber is too busy stepping on its own genitals to do much monitoring of anything.


Are you saying UBer has big balls, or just a really saggy ballsack?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

surlywynch said:


> Are you saying UBer has big balls, or just a really saggy ballsack?


Saggy.


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## neweagle (May 13, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Can you imagine your $1000/month mortgage now only being $300. Can you imagine paying $.80/gal for gasoline. Can you imagine a major medical plan for a family of four only costing $250/month.


Sure I can.

As Uber has shown, all it would take is a seemingly endless stream of venture capital that allowed those companies to charge artificially low prices in order to create an artificial perception of innovation-based value, in the hopes of establishing market domination, driving the established players in the market out of business, then figuring out a way to achieve profitablility once there's no longer a need to pay for the undercutting of the market.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

neweagle said:


> Sure I can.
> 
> As Uber has shown, all it would take is a seemingly endless stream of venture capital that allowed those companies to charge artificially low prices in order to create an artificial perception of innovation-based value, in the hopes of establishing market domination, driving the established players in the market out of business, then figuring out a way to achieve profitablility once there's no longer a need to pay for the undercutting of the market.


Which of course is proving impossible to achieve.


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## Bob fox (May 18, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Taxis are going nowhere.
> What I hear from my pax is they are sick to death of incompetent TNC drivers and they relish my 20 years experience.
> 
> Here's a Caveat- my pax are telling me Uber charges them only slightly less than they pay in a cab for a short ride of 3 miles or less.
> ...


That is a good point. It would be ideal, super ideal, if U/L could be hailed then app'd en route. It would be ideal if cabs didn't drive in circles, empty, burning gas looking for a five dollar ride. That cant be good for the environment, congestion or the driver's income. Here in SF, it seems like cabs subsist mostly on scraps of tourists not unlike leftovers fed to the homeless in ecofriendly recycled cardboard boxes. I digress.

Do cabs do shared rides? Because U/L shared rides have tremendous potential to reduce congestion.

If every ride had 4 people, there would be so fewer cars on the road that rides could be cheaper AND faster AND more profitable for drivers and companies. Maybe cab companies could learn to use advanced technology like U/L. What's that one no one's heard of.. fly well or something.



uberdriverfornow said:


> As long as TNC's aren't allowed to do street hails taxi's will always have a niche.


It would be wonderful if we could work together as a human race and develop an optimal solution. The hail has an intrinsic value. The 40 year taxi veteran knows the potholes by heart. The app services are technology caught up with practicality and proximity and planning.

We waste so much time and energy at the expense of each other.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

If you can flag down uber/lyft it's not longer ride sharing, it's now a taxi..

That's the ONLY difference between the two.

In order to give uber the power to do street hails you really need 25/8 commercial insurance coverage...

The line will be so bent that you have to throw away all the differences in order to go that way.

Literally the ONLY difference. The labeling and flare for a taxi can be as modest as a small dinky sign, The labeling on an uber can get pretty extreme.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> If you can flag down uber/lyft it's not longer ride sharing, it's now a taxi..
> That's the ONLY difference between the two.


In fact, that is what that jerk judge in Indiana, Illinois or wherever it was stated in his ruling. He stated that you can not hail an Uber but can hail a taxi. Somebody forgot to tell him that you can call a taxi. In some jurisdictions, you can not hail a taxi, you must call it. It will never cease to amaze me how people who know less than nothing about this business think that they can define or regulate it and how these same people who know less than nothing about it dismiss those of us who do know something about it.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> In fact, that is what that jerk judge in Indiana, Illinois or wherever it was stated in his ruling. He stated that you can not hail an Uber but can hail a taxi. Somebody forgot to tell him that you can call a taxi. In some jurisdictions, you can not hail a taxi, you must call it. It will never cease to amaze me how people who know less than nothing about this business think that they can define or regulate it and how these same people who know less than nothing about it dismiss those of us who do know something about it.


In most markets this the sole thing that defines a taxi. The ability to hail it... or the ability for taxis to stage up and let the first person into the car who wants to.

There are a few places that don't let you hail a taxi, but this isn't the majority by any stretch of the imagination.

What there is a lot of are places where you *can* hail a taxi you stand absolutely no chance of ever finding a taxi to hail down.

This tiny little detail, plus the fact that a great deal of taxis business is dispatched, irrelevent...

You can dispatch and unmarked car as well..


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

In the cab. Time to make the donuts.

Family is gone for another 10 days. My sleep cycle is messed up. The goal for Autumn is logging in by 03:30 so I can attempt 12 hours every day before I pick up the kids at school.

This has been the worst summer I can ever remember. $92 yesterday with 7.5 hours logged in.
I just can't do ten to 12 hours on a slow summer Tuesday. So no profit.

Just got pinged. Not a good harbinger for the day. 4.6 mile chase to a 1.9 mile job on a credit card no tip.

No wonder I'm almost out of business.
On an EBT card to boot.
Won't be long now!


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

majxl said:


> Uber was received in NYC with strong hope of destroying the taxi medallion system and was permitted to operate literally free of the rules applied to yellows cabs. Contrary to all expectations Uber is now becoming an uncontrollable monster and the media is publishing almost daily news of corporate and drivers unprofessional behaviors. Unfortunately The TLC does not have the support of the city and is ill prepared to control this monster in New York City.


The master plan to break the back of the Taxi medallion monopoly is working. It does not required collusion between the city government and TLC. Simple market forces are more than enough. 
_____

https://www.bizjournals.com/newyork...w-york-city-taxi-medallions-are-for-sale.html
*46 New York City taxi medallions are on the auction block*
Aug 11, 2017* by Anthony Noto*, Reporter _New York Business Journal_

Cab drivers have changed their tune in recent years. They could download multiple apps - Uber, Lyft, Via or Gett - and pick up passengers in their own car rather than lease medallions from the likes of Gene Freidman, the "Taxi King".

This trend took a toll on the industry and, as a result, many medallion owners went bankrupt. Their assets are now available for a fraction of the price.

Islip, New York-based auctioneer Maltz Auctions Inc. announced it will sell up to 46 New York City taxi medallions next month - cars that once belonged to a number of now bankrupt estates, including Hypnotic Taxi LLC.

Altogether there will be 46 medallions up for sale, including six alternative fuel/hybrid medallions and six handicap medallions. Each one was issued by the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission.

The trustee of the sale, Gregory Messer of LaMonica Herbst & Maniscalco LLP, provided details to how the bidding process works available online at MaltzAuctions web site. "This is a rare opportunity to purchase highly coveted NYC Taxi Medallions," stated Maltz Auction president Richard Maltz.

The medallions will be sold free and clear of all monetary liens. The Trustee reserves the right to require potentially qualified bidders to bring an additional deposit (cashier's check) to the live auction to increase their respective deposit to a total of 15 percent of the highest sealed bid. 
_____

https://www.bizjournals.com/newyork...ork-city-taxi-medallions-are-for-sale.html#i1

New York City taxis may soon be able to pick up passengers via smartphone e-hail, but only if the program clear legal hurdles.


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## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

Thank you to advertise this auction.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

majxl said:


> Thank you to advertise this auction.


No advertisement intended. It was part of the article. I even deleted the most mercenary parts, which are available at the URL if you are interested.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Yellow cabs in NYC have had apps now for several years, Aero and one other.
Medallions sell all the time.
It's when they have no more buyers that the market will be broken.

Maven you are an Uber employee.
I hope they pay you a lot to play Tokyo Rose.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Yellow cabs in NYC have had apps now for several years, Aero and one other.
> Medallions sell all the time.
> It's when they have no more buyers that the market will be broken.
> Maven you are an Uber employee.
> I hope they pay you a lot to play Tokyo Rose.


Silly boy. I wish, but if you bothered to read my other posts then you'd realize that I'm no friend of Uber, let alone an employee.

Of course, "Medallions sell all the time." The story is that so many Medallions are selling at the same time and place. The market is not "broken", yet, but seriously damaged, judging from the drop in the Medallions price since their pre-Uber height.

If I owned a few Medallions then I'd sell them fast, before the price drops further, unless you believe that "New York City taxis may be able to pick up passengers via smartphone e-hail" anytime soon.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Maven said:


> Silly boy. I wish, but if you bothered to read my other posts then you'd realize that I'm no friend of Uber, let alone an employee.
> 
> Of course, "Medallions sell all the time." The story is that so many Medallions are selling at the same time and place. The market is not "broken", yet, but seriously damaged, judging from the drop in the Medallions price since their pre-Uber height.
> 
> If I owned a few Medallions then I'd sell them fast, before the price drops further, unless you believe that "New York City taxis may be able to pick up passengers via smartphone e-hail" anytime soon.


Aero? Way2pay? Two apps designed for the NYC taxi industry and approved and in place for several years. Taxis do app work every day in the 5 borroughs.
This is the second time in several days I've had to correct someone due to their lack of research.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Aero? Way2pay? Two apps designed for the NYC taxi industry and approved and in place for several years. Taxis do app work every day in the 5 borroughs. This is the second time in several days I've had to correct someone due to their lack of research.


Don't care, Irrelevant. Do either of the Apps you mention handle more than a tiny fraction of the fares of the average taxi company, let alone Uber? Not sure that I have the correct Way2Pay, but it appears to be British, poorly reviewed, little used, and more like Venmo than Uber.

Even if you are correct, that does not change negative publicity this article will generate or the depressing economic reality faced by the NYC Taxi industry, today and in the foreseeable future.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

Maven said:


> Don't care, Irrelevant. Do either of the Apps you mention handle more than a tiny fraction of the fares of the average taxi company, let alone Uber? Not sure that I have the correct Way2Pay, but it appears to be British, poorly reviewed, little used, and more like Venmo than Uber.
> 
> Even if you are correct, that does not change negative publicity this article will generate or the depressing economic reality faced by the NYC Taxi industry, today and in the foreseeable future.


I think the bigger issue is that when they built the app they didn't understand what makes uber work. They just assumed that if they can do ehail its good enough. I used them a year ago and switched back to uber after 1 try with each since the user experience sucked.


The beauty of uber is that it provides just enough information for 2 people to find each other. The driver gets a picture of the users face and a name. The user get a license plate number, name, and model name for the car. In both apps the driver has no idea what I look like. As a user I get the cab id number which does allow me to locate since it is on the top and sides of a cab.
Lets say I lose something in the cab, no easy way for me to get a hold of driver to get item back I am just hosed. Trip history doesn't provide cab id number just driver name.
No feedback loop is built into the App to voice a complaint about the driver. Engagement is an important piece to keep customers. If we do not give them a feedback loop they will not be as likely to use the product.
These are simple things that uber does that were totally missed. Adding piece of technology is not enough you also have to understand how you manage a brand like yellow cab and how people interact with technology to get value. Until those 2 pieces are thought about taxis will not be able to equal the quality of user experience a user has using the App.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Maven said:


> Don't care, Irrelevant. Do either of the Apps you mention handle more than a tiny fraction of the fares of the average taxi company, let alone Uber? Not sure that I have the correct Way2Pay, but it appears to be British, poorly reviewed, little used, and more like Venmo than Uber.
> 
> Even if you are correct, that does not change negative publicity this article will generate or the depressing economic reality faced by the NYC Taxi industry, today and in the foreseeable future.


There are no Taxi Companies in NYC. There are medallion owners and lessees who drive- and owner operators.
I don't know the ratio of street hails to app work for yellow cabs in NYC but the point is you are not only wrong, you are Ill informed regarding anything which goes on in the NYC taxi industry.

Also- don't ever pull a stunt like getting involved in a debate I'm in with someone else as a third party.
That was rude, over the top and will not be tolerated in the future


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> There are no Taxi Companies in NYC. There are medallion owners and lessees who drive- and owner operators. I don't know the ratio of street hails to app work for yellow cabs in NYC but the point is you are not only wrong, you are Ill informed regarding anything which goes on in the NYC taxi industry. Also- don't ever pull a stunt like getting involved in a debate I'm in with someone else as a third party. That was rude, over the top and will not be tolerated in the future


Ah, all knowing one, if you do not want 3rd parties to comment on your expertly-informed, brilliant conclusions, then make them in a private conversation, not a public thread, where the privilege to comment is extended to all no matter how unworthy, like myself. As are all forum members, you are free to tolerate or not whatever you wish. 

Please forgive my insatiable curiosity, oh determinator of rudeness, but how is it that someone whose profile says "Charlotte" claim expert knowledge of NYC Taxis? Is your Charlotte in North Carolina, a neighborhood in Brooklyn, or perhaps "Los Angeles & Orange County", where you appear to make most of your posts?

I have a parting gift that I pray does not offend. If you need to locate those non-existent taxi companies in NYC then I suggest that you google "Taxi Companies in NYC". There appear to be dozens if not hundreds in desperate need of your wisdom.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Maven said:


> Ah, all knowing one, if you do not want 3rd parties to comment on your expertly-informed, brilliant conclusions, then make them in a private conversation, not a public thread, where the privilege to comment is extended to all no matter how unworthy, like myself. As are all forum members, you are free to tolerate or not whatever you wish.
> 
> Please forgive my insatiable curiosity, oh determinator of rudeness, but how is it that someone whose profile says "Charlotte" claim expert knowledge of NYC Taxis? Is your Charlotte in North Carolina, a neighborhood in Brooklyn, or perhaps "Los Angeles & Orange County", where you appear to make most of your posts?
> 
> I have a parting gift that I pray does not offend. If you need to locate those non-existent taxi companies in NYC then I suggest that you google "Taxi Companies in NYC". There appear to be dozens if not hundreds in desperate need of your wisdom.


As far as i know,

There's

companies that lease cars (with medallions)
Indy operators (who may or may not own a medallion and pay an owner of a medallion for it)
Indy operators who own a medallion (or are financing a medallion)
Medallion owners who lease medallions
Gs (the unlicensed ones)

And then there are people who fit multiple catagories, IE an independent owner/operator who rents his car out when he is not using it, or a medallion owner who also rents a number of taxis complete with medallion, or just leases out medallions to owner operators...

Then there are green taxis, i don't know how they work but i'm pretty sure it's not a regular medallion...

It's probably a lot more complicated than that, but for some inexplicable reason it seems a lot less convoluted than Orlando... Orlando's taxi game is a complicated mess...


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Maven said:


> Ah, all knowing one, if you do not want 3rd parties to comment on your expertly-informed, brilliant conclusions, then make them in a private conversation, not a public thread, where the privilege to comment is extended to all no matter how unworthy, like myself. As are all forum members, you are free to tolerate or not whatever you wish.
> 
> Please forgive my insatiable curiosity, oh determinator of rudeness, but how is it that someone whose profile says "Charlotte" claim expert knowledge of NYC Taxis? Is your Charlotte in North Carolina, a neighborhood in Brooklyn, or perhaps "Los Angeles & Orange County", where you appear to make most of your posts?
> 
> I have a parting gift that I pray does not offend. If you need to locate those non-existent taxi companies in NYC then I suggest that you google "Taxi Companies in NYC". There appear to be dozens if not hundreds in desperate need of your wisdom.


I've been in this business on and off since 1987. I make it my business to know my industry.
NYC is the Mecca of cabs in North America.
You should do what I have done, and read the TLC website.
Taxis in NYC traditionally have not had radios. The COMPANY work goes to TLC licensed car services, also known as bases. These range from neighborhood to luxury and have territories.

You are not a mod. You do not tell me what to take private and post public.
If you want to become a mod, go for it.
Stop trying to tell me how to post. 

So let's recap:
A TAXI in NYC is not associated with a COMPANY.
If you need to call a BASE, a car service vehicle shows up. It's not a TAXI. It has no METER. It is traditionally BLACK and offers flat rate service from point to point.
COMPANIES in NYC are car service bases. Several of these are Carmel and Dial 7. These are not TAXIS.

Read the TLC website, it's fascinating. You might learn something.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I've been in this business on and off since 1987. I make it my business to know my industry.
> NYC is the Mecca of cabs in North America.
> You should do what I have done, and read the TLC website.
> Taxis in NYC traditionally have not had radios. The COMPANY work goes to TLC licensed car services, also known as bases. These range from neighborhood to luxury and have territories.
> ...


You likely know more about Taxis in general, since I have never driven one. Yet, when I see something like "There are no Taxi Companies in NYC", plus I discover you are not a NYC resident, I question your absolute certainty.

Unlike you, I have no intention of telling you to do anything. I merely made a friendly suggestion, which you are free to ignore.

I'll make one more suggestion, which you are also free to ignore. In an open forum, don't be so surprised and hostile when another forum member questions one of your statements. A little courtesy, as opposed to confrontation, goes a long way. I do not need to be a Mod to know that is in the Terms.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Maven said:


> You likely know more about Taxis in general, since I have never driven one. Yet, when I see something like "There are no Taxi Companies in NYC", plus I discover you are not a NYC resident, I question your absolute certainty.
> 
> Unlike you, I have no intention of telling you to do anything. I merely made a friendly suggestion, which you are free to ignore.
> 
> I'll make one more suggestion, which you are also free to ignore. In an open forum, don't be so surprised and hostile when another forum member questions one of your statements. A little courtesy, as opposed to confrontation, goes a long way. I do not need to be a Mod to know that is in the Terms.


Yeah?
Why don't you tell everyone you tried to moderate a debate between myself and (ahem) a moderator of all things?
Brother, you have boundary issues, which is why I had to set boundaries with you.
You're a very unique individual...

And please read up on the info I started you on. That way, your ignorance dies in the light of knowledge.
Oh and I spent a decade living in NY.
Not that I have anything to justify.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Yeah?
> Why don't you tell everyone you tried to moderate a debate between myself and (ahem) a moderator of all things?
> Brother, you have boundary issues, which is why I had to set boundaries with you.
> You're a very unique individual...
> ...


I do have some experience being a moderator on other websites so I can say with some confidence that most successful moderators choose to use their authority only when necessary. At all other times, they choose to act like any other forum member. Other than that, I find your continued hostility, overweening superiority, and emotional need to "set boundaries" on others boring and have lost interest.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

Feel like I should chime in to clear the air.



majxl said:


> Uber was received in NYC with strong hope of destroying the taxi medallion system and was permitted to operate literally free of the rules applied to yellows cabs. Contrary to all expectations Uber is now becoming an uncontrollable monster and the media is publishing almost daily news of corporate and drivers unprofessional behaviors. Unfortunately The TLC does not have the support of the city and is ill prepared to control this monster in New York City.


You are correct. Uber was able to run freely and make a fast grab at customers and drivers while the TLC looked the other way... one example is when Uber somehow collected the information of yellow cab drivers at certain garages and sent them all deals and guarantees to work for Uber when Uber came back into NYC.. another sketchy situation was when a TLC higher-up(Chaabra) had over 1,000 emails back and forth with Uber while he was working at the TLC still and then the day/week? after he left the TLC he got a job at Uber.. don't forget the commissioner who was selling the medallions at a $600k lowest bid(Yassky) who went on to advise for Uber and Lyft. They were able to do a lot of other and continue to do a lot of predatory business practices which are over looked by the TLC.


Maven said:


> The master plan to break the back of the Taxi medallion monopoly is working. It does not required collusion between the city government and TLC. Simple market forces are more than enough.
> _____
> 
> https://www.bizjournals.com/newyork...w-york-city-taxi-medallions-are-for-sale.html
> ...


Yellow cabs do indeed have apps which are legal in NYC.


Maven said:


> Don't care, Irrelevant. Do either of the Apps you mention handle more than a tiny fraction of the fares of the average taxi company, let alone Uber? Not sure that I have the correct Way2Pay, but it appears to be British, poorly reviewed, little used, and more like Venmo than Uber.
> 
> Even if you are correct, that does not change negative publicity this article will generate or the depressing economic reality faced by the NYC Taxi industry, today and in the foreseeable future.


To correct the other poster.. the apps name wasn't Way2Pay it was Way2Ride.. which I believe has been absorbed by the app Curb which operates in over 60+ U.S cities. These apps do not work with taxi companies but they work with the credit card processing companies such as CMT and VeriFone. There are no yellow taxi companies you can call/ping to get a vehicle.. if you downloaded Curb the request would be sent to the credit processing company which would dispatch the trip to X amount of closest drivers to the request. It's not as if you would request via app and choose between company names like Medallion co. and Yellow Cab co. or something like that. The google search you pulled up is most likely as the other poster stated FHV companies such as Carmel, Dial7 and etc.. which are black car companies.


TwoFiddyMile said:


> There are no Taxi Companies in NYC. There are medallion owners and lessees who drive- and owner operators.
> I don't know the ratio of street hails to app work for yellow cabs in NYC but the point is you are not only wrong, you are Ill informed regarding anything which goes on in the NYC taxi industry.
> 
> Also- don't ever pull a stunt like getting involved in a debate I'm in with someone else as a third party.
> That was rude, over the top and will not be tolerated in the future


Well technically there are people who buy medallions and place them under LLC's.. you can't specifically call those companies or anything but they were operated under shell companies.


Maven said:


> Ah, all knowing one, if you do not want 3rd parties to comment on your expertly-informed, brilliant conclusions, then make them in a private conversation, not a public thread, where the privilege to comment is extended to all no matter how unworthy, like myself. As are all forum members, you are free to tolerate or not whatever you wish.
> 
> Please forgive my insatiable curiosity, oh determinator of rudeness, but how is it that someone whose profile says "Charlotte" claim expert knowledge of NYC Taxis? Is your Charlotte in North Carolina, a neighborhood in Brooklyn, or perhaps "Los Angeles & Orange County", where you appear to make most of your posts?
> 
> I have a parting gift that I pray does not offend. If you need to locate those non-existent taxi companies in NYC then I suggest that you google "Taxi Companies in NYC". There appear to be dozens if not hundreds in desperate need of your wisdom.


Maven oh also that when you said they didn't need the help of the TLC.. here's some extra info

The final auction which David Yassky ran he set the lowest bid to $600k for a single medallion... a few months after this he left the TLC and became an advisor for Lyft and Uber.

Ashwini Chaabra who was another TLC higher-up left the TLC after thousands of exchanged emails and a day later got a job at Uber(against the law)

Uber was able to operate using metered fares at the beginning(illegal as well for a black car base to do so)

Every time NYC creates new medallions to sell extensive studies regarding traffic, driver income, and etc.. are all monitored to see how the market and traffic will be affected.. so while the guys who worked at the TLC creating the medallions created new ones at a snails pace while Bloomberg who was in the news for saying he was going to destroy the taxi industry & is an investor in Lyft is all happening... no regulations were placed on the FHV industry...

Kind of ironic the company that started their business as a taxi alternative saying the taxi industry purposely held taxis from being put on the streets actually hired the guys who held back taxis from being put on the streets. What a coinky dink.

Maven Oh also don't forget the TLC promising the taxi industry an app and never delivering

Don't forget when the taxi industry wanted to change their pricing system to reflect Uber's and allow garages to charge drivers by % but didn't follow through with that and keep the taxi industry with flat fees.

Don't forget when taxis wanted to take out the partitions but the TLC said no....
THEN said yes... but made the NV200 the standard vehicle(which comes with a built in partition you can't take out)

Sold medallions with no restrictions then reneged on that and demanded the owners buy more expensive WAV vehicles which Uber is not regulated to.

And by no means Maven am I "coming at you".. with all sincerity I am not trying to be rude at all... just the way the TLC really pulled this all off just annoys me.

It's a whole lot of "the taxi industry never innovated.. they don't wanna change" but a lot of people don't realize the people that now currently work at Uber/Lyft are the one's that never changed the rules.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Brooklyn said:


> Feel like I should chime in to clear the air.
> 
> You are correct. Uber was able to run freely and make a fast grab at customers and drivers while the TLC looked the other way... one example is when Uber somehow collected the information of yellow cab drivers at certain garages and sent them all deals and guarantees to work for Uber when Uber came back into NYC.. another sketchy situation was when a TLC higher-up(Chaabra) had over 1,000 emails back and forth with Uber while he was working at the TLC still and then the day/week? after he left the TLC he got a job at Uber.. don't forget the commissioner who was selling the medallions at a $600k lowest bid(Yassky) who went on to advise for Uber and Lyft. They were able to do a lot of other and continue to do a lot of predatory business practices which are over looked by the TLC.
> 
> ...


No worries.  I appreciate clarification by someone who has lived and worked in NYC for many years and is willing to share their knowledge of the colorful history of the Taxi industry there.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

I also have moderated forums and still operate forums of my own.
But I don't try and moderate here.

It's above my pay grade.
Brooklyn thanks for the clarification on Way2Ride.
And on everything else too.

I never claimed to be an authority on TLC issues, I just knew more than the other guy and wanted to clear the air regarding his errors.


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