# Study finds Uber drivers could earn as little as $5 an hour



## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

https://www.axios.com/uber-driver-w...our-3e20955c-9a08-4ceb-8d5f-6f6b40db93e3.html










A two-year study of Uber drivers in Washington, D.C. found that Uber's payment system is so difficult to understand that 100% of participants had trouble figuring out how much they were actually earning.
*Details:* One female driver even calculated that she was making less than $5 an hour after expenses.
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*Why it matters:* The study could put more pressure on Uber to release more detailed data on how it pays drivers and put it in the cross-hairs of legislators.

Researchers reported that 83% of drivers in the study knew what percentage of their fares Uber took, but 38% did not know how Uber determined that amount.
"This varying degree of knowledge about compensation details could have been expected if the majority of drivers in our study were new to the Uber platform. But they were not. Seventy percent of the drivers in this study had worked on the Uber platform for at least seven months," researchers from Georgetown University said in the report.
*The report's overall findings were limited* to its 40-driver, one-city sample size, but because Uber doesn't provide detailed data on what its drivers earn, it is one of the clearest examples of how the company operates. (The FTC fined Uber $20 million in 2017 for exaggerating how much drivers could earn.)
*The study's main conclusions:*

*Data about the Uber workplace is limited.* Regulators and researchers do not have access to basic information about labor conditions.
*Uber drivers are encouraged to take on financial risk and debt.* 33% of drivers took on debt as a result of their work on the ride-hailing platform.
*Uber drivers report challenges to their health and safety.* 30% of drivers reported physical assaults or safety concerns.
*Despite these challenges, the Uber workplace remained attractive.* 50% of drivers would recommend the job to a friend, and 45% of drivers planned to keep working the job for at least 6 more months.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

$5 is $5 more than what you would have otherwise. I will stand with sign "Shame on Drivers".


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## beebob (Apr 9, 2019)

Higher paying J O B S are out there.??
?If ur Not qualified, whose fault is that?
Uber? The pax? Your parents for not preparing u ?

⚠The good news:
If you’re ambitious u can still get qualified.
But it takes hard work......
Harder than sitting in ur car all day blaming Uber for ur crap life.

No ambition?
That’s OK
But Don’t blame Uber
?Shame on YOU ✌?


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## Taksomotor (Mar 19, 2019)

Yeah, there was a driver who showed a screenshot where he made $4 in a week of online time. He's been sitting in the woods somewhere, where no man ever set foot before, and he was rejecting every odd ride coming his way out of fear that it would take him outside of his preferred market...


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

How can someone only make $5 an hour? After you write off $.55 a mile, you make way more than $5 an hour. Stop the nonsense, if it's not working, go find another job the requires half a brain to follow a blue line on a smart phone.


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

KevinH said:


> The study could put more pressure on Uber to release more detailed data on how it pays drivers and put it in the cross-hairs of legislators.


"There outta be a law" cries the ignorant fool who see government as god. How about some proper schooling to learn what a P&L Statement is? Just a thought!


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

And this is LAST YEARS numbers,

This years numbers will be worse due to surge changes ect.


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## beebob (Apr 9, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And this is LAST YEARS numbers,
> 
> This years numbers will be worse due to surge changes ect.


Yet U continue to chauffeur Uber's clients.

Here's the thing: Uber management knows most FT drivers have no employment options. Subsequently they will kick u whenever it suits their fancy or entertainment. They know you'll come back for more.

Insanity: continually doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results



swathdiver said:


> "There outta be a law" cries the ignorant fool who see government as god. How about some proper schooling to learn what a P&L Statement is? Just a thought!


It's the public school system's Fault?
That's a new twist ???on the "blame game"

Problem: most FT Uber drivers have never seen the inside of a classroom


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

This is one of those fake news stories that they make up and equivocate to pass it off a legitimate news.

I drive a truck and have never made that little of money, not even close.



KevinH said:


> *Why it matters:* The study could put more pressure on Uber to release more detailed data on how it pays drivers and put it in the cross-hairs of legislators.
> 
> Researchers reported that 83% of drivers in the study knew what percentage of their fares Uber took, but 38% did not know how Uber determined that amount.




Nonsense right here. The bullet point has no bearing on income of the driver so it does not matter. It shows people's ignorance though. Consider this, 83% of driver's knowing what Uber's take is, shows that Uber is doing a great job of educating the drivers! There's no need to release more detailed data! LOL Knuckeheads.


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

beebob said:


> Higher paying J O B S are out there.??
> ?If ur Not qualified, whose fault is that?
> Uber? The pax? Your parents for not preparing u ?
> 
> ...


Your argument discounts those with disabilities, immigrants with language problems, those with schedule conflicts such as childcare or other concurrent work commitments.
Your arrogance is rather appalling.
Try to understand the difference between slavery and exploitation. A dictionary would help.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

KevinH said:


> Your argument discounts those with disabilities, immigrants with language problems, those with schedule conflicts such as childcare or other concurrent work commitments.
> Your arrogance is rather appalling.
> Try to understand the difference between slavery and exploitation. A dictionary would help.


I think this site has alot of people that were probably deactivated on it. My guess is many of them have decided to just troll the site and tell actual drivers how stupid they are. I'm making a living driving full time w uber and lyft.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> How can someone only make $5 an hour? After you write off $.55 a mile, you make way more than $5 an hour.


That's not how tax deduction works.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

amazinghl said:


> That's not how tax deduction works.


Clearly, but when you write off 20K miles, your burden is lowered. Wasn't a post about tax law, just that nobody is making $5 an hour.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> Clearly, but when you write off 20K miles, your burden is lowered. Wasn't a post about tax law, just that nobody is making $5 an hour.


See my avatar? That's how much Uber paid me for a UE trip. I can only average about 2 - 2.5 trip an hour, that would me $6-$7.5 before expenses, that $5 an hour estimate would be true for me if I continue to do UE.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

amazinghl said:


> See my avatar? That's how much Uber paid me for a UE trip. I can only average about 2 - 2.5 trip an hour, that would me $6-$7.5 before expenses, that $5 an hour estimate would be true for me if I continue to do UE.


See my avatar? See the title to this thread? Uber drivers. Just because you only accept 25% of the available rides does not mean that you are earning $5 an hour, you just sit around all day and claim that you are being victimized. Try accepting UberX, Pool, XL, Black etc. Then after that, claim you are making less than 5 dollars an hour.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> you just sit around all day and claim that you are being victimized.


I never claim I was victimized. I fought back by quitting UE permanently.

Since when does UberX, Pool, XL, and Black applied to a 2 seater that was made in 2000?


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

amazinghl said:


> See my avatar? That's how much Uber paid me for a UE trip. I can only average about 2 - 2.5 trip an hour, that would me $6-$7.5 before expenses, that $5 an hour estimate would be true for me if I continue to do UE.


How can you average 2.4 Uber Eats per hour?

That's a total of 24 minutes per order to receive the order, go to the restaurant, wait for the order, travel and deliver that order to the customer. And then repeat the same process over and over.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Bob Reynolds said:


> How can you average 2.4 Uber Eats per hour?
> 
> That's a total of 24 minutes per order to receive the order, go to the restaurant, wait for the order, travel and deliver that order to the customer. And then repeat the same process over and over.


Have you done delivery in Phoenix area?

5-10 minutes to get to the restaurant
1-10 minutes to wait for good to be prepare
5-10 minutes to get to the to the address
5-10 minutes to find the apartment number
1-2 minutes for customer to answer their phone is there is an issue with address/location

You do the math.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

amazinghl said:


> I never claim I was victimized. I fought back by quitting UE permanently.
> 
> Since when does UberX, Pool, XL, and Black applied to a 2 seater that was made in 2000?


So you only do 1 trip offered by Uber, but compare the same pay as drivers that accept pool and X? You can't compare driving only eats to regular uber drivers.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

amazinghl said:


> Have you done delivery in Phoenix area?
> 
> 5-10 minutes to get to the restaurant
> 1-10 minutes to wait for good to be prepare
> ...


Doing the math that adds up to 42 minutes per delivery using your numbers.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Doing the math that adds up to 42 minutes per delivery using your numbers.


I had deliveries that took over 42 minutes...
You point?


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

why do they need studies lmao

it's been 3rd grade math for 4+ years

my first minimum fare in 2015 was $2.40 GROSS it was about 5 rides in after all $30+ rides, I thought it was a mistake, after 1st support interaction I knew it was a ponzi scam

only strategy you needed wad ignore everything that isnt a hotel 30+ minutes from the airport & theyve been manipulating & degrading the app ever since to try & stop it

1st day driving 4+ years ago youre telling me not one investigative journalist, lawyer, labor department, etc hasn't signed up to see whats up?

they all in on it & all getting bribed at the very minimum its 80+ million dollars cash flow per DAY(20+ million rides times $4 minimum) for both companies

thats a lot of bribes, skimming, money laundering, rico acts.....

no adult would ever look another in the eye & offer $2-4 gross to deliver hundreds of pounds miles NOT one, they know they would get laughed at or punched, not one would reach in your pockets & steal $1-3 multiple times per day with a gun or strong armed because they are criminal cowards hiding behind an app

$2-4 is a 1971 minimum fare easily verifiable same with .60 per mile being from 1975

$4 minimum fare - $2-4 is free labor EVERY minimum fare period can't one adult whose ever owned or driven a car say it don't COST least $2 to give a ride

$4-8 fares all below minimum wage

these are 90% of fares lmao

for the last 4+ years all my app does is try to trick me into driving for free 9 outta 10 requests

Don't know why MIT mathmatecians were needed 3 years ago when they found the same info, this is not rocket science

its an organized crime racket / ponzi scam that generates its cash flow from human trafficking by rebranding slavery as an app & they laughing all the way to the bank, their 37 million dollar condos, their half a million SQ feet office space in the warriors new arena....

50% would recommend to a "friend" an enemy maybe lmao & 40% "planned" to keep working for 6 months lmao not if they get in an accident or a fuel pump decides to go, 96% dont last much longer than that


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

amazinghl said:


> I had deliveries that took over 42 minutes...
> You point?


My point is that if you have deliveries that take 42 minutes then it is not possible to do 2.5 deliveries per hour. In fact you would not be able to do two deliveries per hour.

And this is where drivers get hung up. There are 60 minutes in an hour. The average Uber driver on an average shift can do 1.45 rides per hour.

What happens is that drivers believe they can exceed this 1.45 rides per hour on a consistent basis. Yes there will be occasional times when you might pop 2 short rides, or pick up two deliveries from a restaurant, in an hour, back to back. But there will also be times where you sit for over an hour waiting for a ping. We have to take the total at the end of a shift to measure the earnings.


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

Uber is a game. Some of us understand the rules and know how to play it, others don't grasp the complexities of the game. It's kind of like chess anyone can learn how the pieces move, but few can master it.


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> How can someone only make $5 an hour? After you write off $.55 a mile, you make way more than $5 an hour. Stop the nonsense, if it's not working, go find another job the requires half a brain to follow a blue line on a smart phone.


96% do AND it's by design


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Bob Reynolds said:


> My point is that if you have deliveries that take 42 minutes then it is not possible to do 2.5 deliveries per hour. In fact you would not be able to do two deliveries per hour.


If every delivery took 42 minutes, no, I cannot. But on average, I can.

At the end of the day, I look at the number of deliveries I've done, divided by the hours I worked, number comes back between 2 to 2.5.


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I think this site has alot of people that were probably deactivated on it. My guess is many of them have decided to just troll the site and tell actual drivers how stupid they are. I'm making a living driving full time w uber and lyft.


congrats youre part of the 4% who succeed me too & i still know its an evil disgusting illegal scam ran by criminals who belong under the jail

96% fail & its by design & its not because cab driver while dangerous requires amazing skils its because the app makes more money than the labor on every minimum fare without using any gas, time, labor, risk, maintenance, depreciation, & takes 50-90% of other fares

if drivers were paid legally EVERY ride you really think 96% would fail?

thats the ponzi slavery loop hole apparently



Ssgcraig said:


> Clearly, but when you write off 20K miles, your burden is lowered. Wasn't a post about tax law, just that nobody is making $5 an hour.


96% of drivers were making that or less thats why they fail lol

this article says 30% get into debt which means less than zero per hour, theyre paying to work lmao

disrupt baby make slaves pay you to be slaves now thats innovative


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

smarternotharder said:


> 96% do AND it's by design


Wrong, there is not chance that 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour. Part time now, I do rides on my way home, 1.5 hours and I make 50-100 dollars, on the way home. Unless you are sitting in a town that has 27 for a population, there is no way 96% of Uber drivers make less than 5 dollars an hour, Uber would not exist.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

amazinghl said:


> If every delivery took 42 minutes, no, I cannot. But on average, I can.
> 
> At the end of the day, I look at the number of deliveries I've done, divided by the hours I worked, number comes back between 2 to 2.5.


Frankly I do not see how this is remotely possible. The traffic is Phoenix is extremely heavy and that alone will take more than 24 minutes to get through most of the day.


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> Wrong, there is not chance that 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour.


google 96% of uber drivers fail

then give me a good explanation if its not because theyre making less than $5 an hour at 1970s wages

churn baby churn i dont invent my own facts just because you blessed to be part of the 4% such as myself dont act like its not a scam because you figured out how to play games or blessed to get good rides from bed or moved to such a spot, because id of failed years ago taking 90% of the rides i ignore or cancel

the 4% of uber that succeeds does much better than $5 an hour, id assume since my average is $45-65xl an hour & i dont count time apps on in my bed just on the road,

driving in circles, idling to stay warm&cool that id also assume 90% driver do is work & means way less especially actually doing $4-8 rides like a child but thats none of my biz, just here preaching to the choir amused at that blatant illegality of it all putting in my 2


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Ssgcraig said:


> Wrong, there is not chance that 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour.


I do know that most Uber X drivers, in the Orlando area are not making the minimum wage after they deduct the cost of the vehicle. The average driver can average 1.45 trips per hour. The driver pay on those trips will be less than $5 over 50% of the time because Uber does a little over half of their business in "short rides" of less than 3 miles. From this gross pay, the driver needs to deduct the cost of the vehicle which the IRS says is .54 cents per mile. It takes 3 deadhead (unloaded) miles to make one paid (loaded) mile in the Orlando market.


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## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I think this site has alot of people that were probably deactivated on it. My guess is many of them have decided to just troll the site and tell actual drivers how stupid they are. I'm making a living driving full time w uber and lyft.


These articles amaze me, if it doesn't work for you , move on. It's not a guarantee. Made $142 last night on 10 trips and 6 hours work. Prius gets 52 mpg, works great!


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

smarternotharder said:


> google 96% of uber drivers fail
> 
> then give me a good explanation if its not because theyre making less than $5 an hour at 1970s wages
> 
> churn baby churn i dont invent my own facts just because you blessed to be part of the 4% such as myself dont act like its not a scam because you figured out how to play games or blessed to get good rides from bed or moved to such a spot, because id of failed years ago taking 90% of the rides i ignore or cancel


You are inventing your own facts. It's ok, most people do that on forums. There is NO WAY 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour. It's fake news. Of course I do not sit in the woods and decline everything that may be out of my way. Thats sets up the the statistics that since I have been on line for 12 hours, completed three trips for 36 dollars, I make less than $5 dollars an hour. It's nonsense. The government even subsidizes it, letting me lower my taxable income by $12,000.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Frankly I do not see how this is remotely possible. The traffic is Phoenix is extremely heavy and that alone will take more than 24 minutes to get through most of the day.


Phoenix Metropolitan Area is a big place.

This was taken last year, those rate doesn't exist anymore. Same delivery will be less than $4 each trip.


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## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> You are inventing your own facts. It's ok, most people do that on forums. There is NO WAY 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour. It's fake news. Of course I do not sit in the woods and decline everything that may be out of my way. Thats sets up the the statistics that since I have been on line for 12 hours, completed three trips for 36 dollars, I make less than $5 dollars an hour. It's nonsense. The government even subsidizes it, letting me lower my taxable income by $12,000.


Great point!


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

amazinghl said:


> Phoenix Metropolitan Area is a big place.
> 
> View attachment 315958


And this is just Eats, not a regular Uber driver.


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## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

jlong105 said:


> Uber is a game. Some of us understand the rules and know how to play it, others don't grasp the complexities of the game. It's kind of like chess anyone can learn how the pieces move, but few can master it.


Well said, you learn your routes, strong areas, what works and what doesn't. Ie. South OC still pays .87.


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## OtherUbersdo (May 17, 2018)

Did the study also find that we don't get paid by the hour ?


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> You are inventing your own facts. It's ok, most people do that on forums. There is NO WAY 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour. It's fake news. Of course I do not sit in the woods and decline everything that may be out of my way. Thats sets up the the statistics that since I have been on line for 12 hours, completed three trips for 36 dollars, I make less than $5 dollars an hour. It's nonsense. The government even subsidizes it, letting me lower my taxable income by $12,000.


not inventing anything

why do 96% of drivers fail

most likely because 96% earn less than $5 an hour alex?

ding ding ding

like i said im sure the 4% of uber drivers who figured it out or live in a great place that succeed make more

this is 3rd grade math

if you do 3 minimum fares an hour thats $12 at $4 per fare

at least $6 is costs thats $6 an hour

no ones getting a 3 fares an hour 24/7 after busy hours it can be hours between pings

thats not counting maintenance & depreciation lmao

xl, select, black, lux do better but thats a small % of the business, if i turn on x its pinging every 5 minutes on busy days, once every 15 on slow ones, switch to xl+ maybe 1 an hour haha but it pays more than 10-20 x or pool rides lmao 1 ride to airport worth 10-20 minimum fares

why on earth would anyone bother that wasn't starving

anyhoo you believe your math ill believe mine in the early 90s as a pre teen you weren't getting a ride for less than $5 gas money & you were a friend with me most likely going to the same place or not far, foh with your $2-8 rides no one respects them not uber, not riders, not themselves its equivalent to spitting in my face & robbing me so thats deserving of 1star service for even tricking me the 1 outta 10 times i still get one of these "customers"

but you're right MIT the best mathmaticians in the world did the math & uber drivers made $3.31 per hour a 1981 minimum wage a few years ago look it up, a few weeks later after most likely a bribe or legal threat they raised their figure to $9 an hour

.60 per mile 1975 cab rate dont lie $2-4 gross minimum fare is from 1971 uber lyft pay that 15+ million times per day

straight human trafficking player


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## beebob (Apr 9, 2019)

KevinH said:


> Your argument discounts those with disabilities, immigrants with language problems, those with schedule conflicts such as childcare or other concurrent work commitments.
> Your arrogance is rather appalling.
> Try to understand the difference between slavery and exploitation. A dictionary would help.


Another crybaby heard from.
Federal law mandates that traded school and colleges have accommodations for the disabled. Plenty of online IT and cyber security courses and more online. https://www.coursera.org/

U want to earn, learn English

But u don't want to work at investing in your own future.
U want opportunity on a silver platter, sit in your car complaining how u can't get a break, how Uber is the boogie man.

Your ignorance & lazy excuses are consistent and predictable.
Sad


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

smarternotharder said:


> not inventing anything
> 
> why do 96% of drivers fail
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is because you did not get past the third grade, you need to make things up, move the goalposts?

If I don't get three fares in an hour, something is very wrong, or it's 2PM, it's market driven. It's like selling copies of the constitution to millenials, probably not going to make $5 an hour.

I never get three minimum fares in a row, I don't accept pool unless there is a good surge attached to it. There are enough ants that suck up pool rides to get thier quests.

You get to deduct $.55 a mile on your taxes plus the depreciation.

Your math is flawed and smells like you were deactivated.

I do not need anyone to tell me what I make, I do that all by myself, I went beyond the third grade.

I make $.70 a mile, and $.28 a minute. That does not include any surge that I drive through that will carry on to my next ping. I have had surges at $39. So, tell me MIT mathmaticians, what does $.28 a min equal to an hour? Seriously, just the per minute rate is more than $5 an hour. Again, your math is flawed.

Hold on to your hat, driving for Uber is market driven. If I lived in the White mountains in NH, I probably would make $5 an hour, but not much more.

If you put garbage data into your formula, get what kind of results you are getting? You guessed it.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

That’s outrageous! Drivers don’t make more than $3/hr. And that’s just from among the 3% that actually make money.


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## OCUberGuy (Oct 11, 2017)

OtherUbersdo said:


> Did the study also find that we don't get paid by the hour ?


That's because your a 1099 self-employed worker. Become paid by the hour, your a w-2 worker with all sorts of requirements.


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> So what you're saying is because you did not get past the third grade, you need to make things up, move the goalposts?
> 
> If I don't get three fares in an hour, something is very wrong, or it's 2PM, it's market driven. It's like selling copies of the constitution to millenials, probably not going to make $5 an hour.
> 
> ...


congrats you're part of the 4% that succeed as am i
.

.70 a mile .28 a minute LMAO

do you broham i aint mad atcha i do that ride if its 40 miles to the airport and i get the smart tint $10 toll on top of it, otherwise cancel & xl only

everyone got a price i don't "share" my ride unless im getting $10 i need 10 tacos minimum ese period point blank, ill let the kids that risk life and limb have em, theyll be a new 97% circling me next year

like you said every market different this one no ride not going 10+ miles is a loss leader, im an independent contractor not a loss leader so i ignore or cancel those rides

i fill my tank up drive to the airport drive back empty and fill my tank up is $8 add 2 for future maintenance & or depreciation means my vehicle COSTS $10 an hour to operate that $16.00 per hour (.28 per min)is less than $6 & that .60 per mile LMAO amd and youre not paid for dead minutes or miles so divide by least 2 unless you teleporting

enjoy your tax write off, i dare them to audit me thats public info how you going to audit a ponzi scam like im going to waste my time filing taxes on a blank contract that i can provide evidence cost me money, audit my human trafficking please lol

diff strokes

i slept in the 3rd grade i had a paper route, it was 1984 & i was paid more to deliver papers on a bike than what uber lyft pay adults to deliver people in theor cars LMAO foh


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## ANTlifebaby (Oct 28, 2018)

Like anything purely individually based, your uber earnings/hour/mile will likely fall on a bell curve affected by your smarts, your market, your equity, your laziness, etc. Some people are in bronze league and other people are in platinum.

You'd think if you sucked at something so much that you only made 5 bucks an hour doing it, you'd stop.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

beebob said:


> Higher paying J O B S are out there.??
> ?If ur Not qualified, whose fault is that?
> Uber? The pax? Your parents for not preparing u ?
> 
> ...


Very well stated!


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## dryverjohn (Jun 3, 2018)

Charlotte drivers earn $.11 per minute, so $6.60 an hour while an occupant is in the car, so even with the $.60 per mile it is going to be very difficult to declare any taxable income after writing off all miles required to get that passenger in the car. I think $5 an hour is generous in Charlotte, most drivers make far less, but cash out 4x a day. They never do the math, just need to make enough to grab a burger, then work to make enough for gas, then work enough to pay cell phone bill, etc.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

smarternotharder said:


> congrats you're part of the 4% that succeed as am i
> .
> 
> .70 a mile .28 a minute LMAO
> ...


Your dead miles you can write off. You seem like you are going to hate no matter what data is presented. $10 an hour to operate, hmmm, another stat from MIT? You have been proven wrong, your 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 claim is false. Go back to driving a cab, or did they fire you and that is why you Uber?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

KevinH said:


> Your argument discounts those with disabilities, immigrants with language problems, those with schedule conflicts such as childcare or other concurrent work commitments.
> Your arrogance is rather appalling.
> Try to understand the difference between slavery and exploitation. A dictionary would help.


I used to see myself without options (due to my age), then I found a job as a security guard, pays $12 for the easiest work possible (for the most part). If you're drug-free and have a clean record, they WILL hire you.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Taksomotor said:


> Yeah, there was a driver who showed a screenshot where he made $4 in a week of online time. He's been sitting in the woods somewhere, where no man ever set foot before, and he was rejecting every odd ride coming his way out of fear that it would take him outside of his preferred market...


Damn it I told you not to tell anyone about that!! ?


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> How can you average 2.4 Uber Eats per hour?
> 
> That's a total of 24 minutes per order to receive the order, go to the restaurant, wait for the order, travel and deliver that order to the customer. And then repeat the same process over and over.


Um the average of 2 and 2.5 is 2.25


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

You can tell who the company trolls are and who might be an insider at the company by the responses to these stories. Stories like these are very helpful for helping to identify these people.... Anyway,

My own thought is that people studying how drivers are being screwed is a GREAT thing. I hope to see more of it. I note though that the study was started in 2016. Well since then the percentage of the fare going to the driver has dropped at least 10%. It should be much worse today.

I also believe that the study suggests (correctly) that the rideshare companies take advanatage of the lack of information drivers have. We all know that. For example with how they withold the destination, how long the trip will be, etc. But mainly what I am speaking of is in regards to expenses. As evidenced countless of times on these forums many (or even most) drivers have no idea as to what driving actually costs them. A great many for example only count their gas expenses and outright ignore the rest! Uber and Lyft are alive basically due to this ignorance.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And this is LAST YEARS numbers,
> 
> This years numbers will be worse due to surge changes ect.


Yes!


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## Vespa (Nov 29, 2018)

dmoney155 said:


> $5 is $5 more than what you would have otherwise. I will stand with sign "Shame on Drivers".


Or we coud all just all goto work in the gulags of mutha russia during the soviet era.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

touberornottouber said:


> You can tell who the company trolls are and who might be an insider at the company by the responses to these stories. Stories like these are very helpful for helping to identify these people.... Anyway,
> 
> My own thought is that people studying how drivers are being screwed is a GREAT thing. I hope to see more of it. I note though that the study was started in 2016. Well since then the percentage of the fare going to the driver has dropped at least 10%. It should be much worse today.
> 
> I also believe that the study suggests (correctly) that the rideshare companies take advanatage of the lack of information drivers have. We all know that. For example with how they withold the destination, how long the trip will be, etc. But mainly what I am speaking of is in regards to expenses. As evidenced countless of times on these forums many (or even most) drivers have no idea as to what driving actually costs them. A great many for example only count their gas expenses and outright ignore the rest! Uber and Lyft are alive basically due to this ignorance.


I agree with you about the amount of information that is given to the driver upon activation. I did not know how everything worked when I first pressed the online button. Most jobs you have to in process, spend a week or so in training. I just got a message yesterday saying I am now part of Pro, where is it in the app? They don't tell you.

There is a purpose for withholding the destination. They do give us a 45 plus, cuts down the discrimminaiton on rides.

I do not agree that 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour, I think that claim is absurd.

So who do you think is a company troll?


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Ssgcraig said:


> I agree with you about the amount of information that is given to the driver upon activation. I did not know how everything worked when I first pressed the online button. Most jobs you have to in process, spend a week or so in training. I just got a message yesterday saying I am now part of Pro, where is it in the app? They don't tell you.
> 
> There is a purpose for withholding the destination. They do give us a 45 plus, cuts down the discrimminaiton on rides.
> 
> ...


I can't say for sure but look for patterns to topics like this. A pro-company troll will seek to derail topics like this and discredit them. Sometimes subtly. They will also seek to derail any attempts at organization.

The $5 an hour claim isn't outrageous at all once you fact in all costs. Say you gross $10 an hour, well, it is very likely then you are netting about $5 an hour. Yes, over half of your revenue becoming costs. Drivers eek out a living despite this in the short term because a good portion of those costs are long term. Your transmission or engine doesn't go out right away, rather it does 150,000 miles later after giving all those rides. Your tires and brakes might make it 50,000 miles or so. There is an information dissymmetry. The companies rely on drivers not knowing this.

What usually happens to educate a driver is that a major repair comes and that they cannot afford it. Or maybe they get a speeding ticket or two and their insurance triples making this unaffordable. The companies rely on the drivers to absorb these hidden costs and risks.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

touberornottouber said:


> I can't say for sure but look for patterns to topics like this. A pro-company troll will seek to derail topics like this and discredit them. Sometimes subtly. They will also seek to derail any attempts at organization.
> 
> The $5 an hour claim isn't outrageous at all once you fact in all costs. Say you gross $10 an hour, well, it is very likely then you are netting about $5 an hour. Yes, over half of your revenue becoming costs. Drivers eek out a living despite this in the short term because a good portion of those costs are long term. Your transmission or engine doesn't go out right away, rather it does 150,000 miles later after giving all those rides. Your tires and brakes might make it 50,000 miles or so. There is an information dissymmetry. The companies rely on drivers not knowing this.


You are being reimbursed $.58 a mile in the form of a tax incentive for the gas and wear and tear. You also get to claim the depreciation on your taxes. So unless you are driving in a market that pays $.25 a mile and $.08 a min, there is no way 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour, it's an absurd claim. By the way. $.08 a min is $4.80 an hour. Again, market driven. There is no way 96% of Uber drivers are in a market where they can't make $5 an hour. I do not know any drivers in my market that eek out a living. If you live in a market that sucks, find another job that your market pays better. I do not recommend Uber as a full time job, too many hours and your car will be past it's useful miles in two years.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Ssgcraig said:


> You are being reimbursed $.58 a mile in the form of a tax incentive for the gas and wear and tear. You also get to claim the depreciation on your taxes. So unless you are driving in a market that pays $.25 a mile and $.08 a min, there is no way 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour, it's an absurd claim. By the way. $.08 a min is $4.80 an hour. Again, market driven. There is no way 96% of Uber drivers are in a market where they can't make $5 an hour. I do not know any drivers in my market that eek out a living. If you live in a market that sucks, find another job that your market pays better. I do not recommend Uber as a full time job, too many hours and your car will be past it's useful miles in two years.


The standard mileage deduction isn't income.

Most full time drivers are in poverty or very near it. All the mileage deduction does for most is offset the self employment and any federal income taxes they would otherwise have due. It's not real income. You won't be able to buy a car from it or pay your rent with the standard mileage deduction.

And that is another thing actually: because we are classed as independent contractors we end up having to pay the so-called self employment tax which includes the employer share of the social security and medicare tax. If you had a normal job your employer would be paying this portion for you.

----
Anyway, again, I don't think you are understanding how costs are involved here. For starters calculate the cost of gas per mile. For example I drive a Corolla and combined get about 33 miles per gallon. Gas is $2.79 a gallon here right now. So:

279 / 33 = ~8.45 cents per mile

Also calculate simple depreciation for your vehicle. Take the cost to buy your vehicle (what you paid) divided by the estimated expected life of the vehicle. For my Corolla I estimate about 200,000 miles. I paid about $15,000 for it.

200000 / 15000 = ~13.34 cents per mile

So just with gas and standard depreciation 21.74 cents per mile go to these costs. BUT WAIT! This doesn't include repairs, tires, increased insurance costs, etc. Also *and this is a very big one* on average for every paid mile you will have one unpaid mile. So we need to double the 21.74 cents per mile. This gives us 43.48 cents per paid mile as a cost. And remember this is without repairs, extra insurance, and other things. Add those on and I am easily over 50 cents a mile.

Well the pay rates here are about 91 cents a mile. So as you should be able to see, yes, about half of my revenue here does indeed go to pay costs. And this is in a Corolla. It's much worse for something like a BMW or a minivan. It would also be much worse if I drove in say Orlando for 54 cents a mile. Considering my costs are at least 50 cents per mile, at best there I would only be making 4-10 cents per paid mile! With a Corolla! Crazy to think about!

*This isn't a matter of opinion or politics here. It's simple math. And the company relies on drivers to not have this information.*



dryverjohn said:


> Charlotte drivers earn $.11 per minute, so $6.60 an hour while an occupant is in the car, so even with the $.60 per mile it is going to be very difficult to declare any taxable income after writing off all miles required to get that passenger in the car. I think $5 an hour is generous in Charlotte, most drivers make far less, but cash out 4x a day. They never do the math, just need to make enough to grab a burger, then work to make enough for gas, then work enough to pay cell phone bill, etc.


I agree. I really do think a lot of drivers are just out there to pay off the landlord. The long term costs don't matter when you are facing eviction. I think these companies thrive off of this poverty and desperation. It provides them a desperate workforce who absorbs all of the costs with very little of the profits. Considering how low the pay is in relation to the costs it is surprising that they are still putting so much money into self driving vehicles.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

touberornottouber said:


> Add those on and I am easily over 50 cents a mile.
> 
> Well the pay rates here are about 91 cents a mile. So as you should be able to see, yes, about half of my revenue here does indeed go to pay costs. And this is in a Corolla. It's much worse for something like a BMW or a minivan.


How do you say that not paying taxes on 30K is not income? You claim the depreciation on your taxes.

Let say I make $55K at a W2 job, what do you think I would pay every two weeks in taxes? Around $500 every two weeks, $1,000 a month. Your telling me that a $1,000 a month in taxes doesn't cover the expenses? Again, the claim that 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour is absurd.

Your over $.50 a mile for everything. You are subsedized $.58 from the government, or you can claim every little thing separatley. I don't understand how half of your revenue is in costs. My rate is $.70 and $.28. I average about $25 an hour.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Ssgcraig said:


> How do you say that not paying taxes on 30K is not income? You claim the depreciation on your taxes.


In most areas all the standard mileage deduction does is nullify the self employment taxes you were due to pay due to rideshare. The Self Employment taxes in the US are regressive. It's 15.3% of all income from self employment and it is owed even if you are in abject poverty and only earned $5,000 a year from Uber.

Again if you had a normal job your employer would have paid 1/2 of the self employment taxes for you (the "employer share").

So again all the standard mileage deduction will do for most drivers is eliminate the self employment tax they would otherwise have to pay. And in most cases they only owe it because it is highly regressive in the US. Most drivers are probably in poverty and likely would not owe any normal federal income taxes which are more progressive.



Ssgcraig said:


> Let say I make $55K at a W2 job, what do you think I would pay every two weeks in taxes? Around $500 every two weeks, $1,000 a month. Your telling me that a $1,000 a month in taxes doesn't cover the expenses? Again, the claim that 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour is absurd.


I don't understand what you are getting at here. Uber isn't a $55,000 W-2 job. The way taxes are done on a W-2 job is completely different. As I said your employer pays 1/2 of your medicare and social security taxes already when on a w-2 job. With Uber YOU p[ay both the employer and employee shares. The net effect of the standard mileage deduction is usually that it basically covers your self employment taxes. so that you do not owe them.



Ssgcraig said:


> Your over $.50 a mile for everything. You are subsedized $.58 from the government, or you can claim every little thing separatley. I don't understand how half of your revenue is in costs. My rate is $.70 and $.28. I average about $25 an hour.


For me all the standard mileage deduction does is make it look like I made $0 from rideshare on paper to the IRS. This means paying $0 in self employment and federal income taxes from rideshare.

Follow the example I gave a couple replies up in regards to calculating cost of gas per mile and simple estimated depreciation per mile.

If you answer these questions or private message it to me I will calculate it for you if you want:

1. Cost per gallon of gas in your area.
2. Estimated miles per gallon of your vehicle.
3. Price you paid for your vehicle when purchased.
4. Estimated life in mileage of your vehicle (subtract mileage already on vehicle when purchased)


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

When it is all said and done, this thread claims 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour. That is fake news no matter how you slice it. Are there some? Of course, but no way 96%.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Ssgcraig said:


> When it is all said and done, this thread claims 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour. That is fake news no matter how you slice it. Are there some? Of course, but no way 96%.


Well I think the study was based on like 50 people (this is from memory, I'd have to go back and read it again to be sure). It actually seems like a pretty decent study. You'll notice they are also honest about how despite the low pay a good portion of drivers still recommend it. A hit piece wouldn't reveal that.

And the odds are MOST drivers do make $5 or less when all expenses are accounted for. I did a little under $300 gross yesterday for about 14 hours (including the time to drive home from a 70 mile trip). Even then I barely netted above $10 an hour when you consider my costs. I showed you the math for me. I spend about 50 cents per paid mile in costs. I gross 91 cents + 9 cents a minute + tips. So about half of what I gross goes to costs.

Some people would say "Oh wow! You almost made $300 yesterday from Uber and Lyft!!!" but like I said the reality is after all costs I made about $140 in 14 hours so about $10 an hour. In many areas McDonalds pays more. And this was a VERY good day for me with two long trips.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Taksomotor said:


> Yeah, there was a driver who showed a screenshot where he made $4 in a week of online time. He's been sitting in the woods somewhere, where no man ever set foot before, and he was rejecting every odd ride coming his way out of fear that it would take him outside of his preferred market...


Sitting in the woods somewhere indeed! This is the infamous wolf!

Let us not forget -

_"The wolf let himself in. Poor Granny did not have time to say another word, before the wolf gobbled her up! " :biggrin:_

and now....now... he has Little Red Riding hood in his sights !

.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

touberornottouber said:


> Well I think the study was based on like 50 people (this is from memory, I'd have to go back and read it again to be sure). It actually seems like a pretty decent study. You'll notice they are also honest about how despite the low pay a good portion of drivers still recommend it. A hit piece wouldn't reveal that.
> 
> And the odds are MOST drivers do make $5 or less when all expenses are accounted for. I did a little under $300 gross yesterday for about 14 hours (including the time to drive home from a 70 mile trip). Even then I barely netted above $10 an hour when you consider my costs. I showed you the math for me. I spend about 50 cents per paid mile in costs. I gross 91 cents + 9 cents a minute + tips. So about half of what I gross goes to costs.
> 
> Some people would say "Oh wow! You almost made $300 yesterday from Uber and Lyft!!!" but like I said the reality is after all costs I made about $140 in 14 hours so about $10 an hour. In many areas McDonalds pays more. And this was a VERY good day for me with two long trips.


I am going to disagree with you, I do not think most drivers make less than 5 an hour. I appreciate your input, but I don't think you take all incentives into consideration. 14 hours for 300, that's not good.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

there are drivers in the toronto sub forum who feel you dont deserve to make min wage doing this. do you deserve min wage?


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## AMERICAN/EUROUBERDRIVER (Apr 19, 2019)

after expenses working a 30 hour week and renting a car for uber you make about 150 per week working 30 hours so that is 5 dollars per hour which is correct on my calculation. the problem it is very hard work dealing with entitled passengers and exhausting and it hurts your body. even going to the gym it hurts your back driving alot


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

https://uberpeople.net/threads/nyc-capping-new-drivers.324619/page-2
There are some drivers in this thread who feel you don't deserve to make a living doing this. Please share your thoughts with them


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## Damn Boy (Jan 28, 2019)

KevinH said:


> https://www.axios.com/uber-driver-w...our-3e20955c-9a08-4ceb-8d5f-6f6b40db93e3.html
> 
> View attachment 315888
> 
> ...


I couldn't even pay my credit card bills since started driving for Uber


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

KevinH said:


> *Details:* One female driver even calculated that she was making less than $5 an hour after expenses.
> Show less


The problem with this was that she worked 14 hours in a week of paying $170 for the car that week. The number increases to $15 an hour if she actually drives 40 hours a week. Youd be crazy to pay $170 a week on a lease to Uber and only uber 14 hours that week. If she has other work, that she uses that car to get it, that car is an asset to that earning as well. If she doesnt have another job, why is she only driving 14 hours in a week?


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## UofMDriver (Dec 29, 2015)

beebob said:


> Higher paying J O B S are out there.??
> ?If ur Not qualified, whose fault is that?
> Uber? The pax? Your parents for not preparing u ?
> 
> ...


Only fools drive for Uber. Quality is going way down. Smart drivers move on out. Especially after the Upfront surge and pricing scams Uber pulled on drivers earnings.


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## CDP (Nov 11, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> You are being reimbursed $.58 a mile in the form of a tax incentive for the gas and wear and tear. You also get to claim the depreciation on your taxes. So unless you are driving in a market that pays $.25 a mile and $.08 a min, there is no way 96% of Uber drivers make less than $5 an hour, it's an absurd claim. By the way. $.08 a min is $4.80 an hour. Again, market driven. There is no way 96% of Uber drivers are in a market where they can't make $5 an hour. I do not know any drivers in my market that eek out a living. If you live in a market that sucks, find another job that your market pays better. I do not recommend Uber as a full time job, too many hours and your car will be past it's useful miles in two years.


Your wage should be your state's avg, FL is about 11. Minimum wage is around 8$
Your taxes
Cost of maintenance 5,000 mi per month = 200$
Rideshare insurance 150$ addtl
Insurance $150 monthly 
Car payment, or lump sum averaging the life of the car - estimated at 300 per month 
Gas for 5,000 miles at 25mpg is 200 gallons or $500 dollars
Incidentals $100

$1100 already. Do 110 rides, and your cost to each ride is 10$. That's before taxes. Do 220 rides, its 5$ per rides. Any variance would affect my math.

So, if you are doing 220 rides per month (reasonable), and you're making 20$ per hour, you're really making 15$ before you pay yourself (it's your business). At 16$ per hour, it's down to 11, and you have the liability. I'd say we make about 7$ per hour, on average before tax deductions. I averaged 17$ per hr or $9.50 with my 440$ car payment, after expenses.

=


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

CDP said:


> Your wage should be your state's avg, FL is about 11. Minimum wage is around 8$
> Your taxes
> Cost of maintenance 5,000 mi per month = 200$
> Rideshare insurance 150$ addtl
> ...


And how much if your car was paid up?


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

CDP said:


> Your wage should be your state's avg, FL is about 11. Minimum wage is around 8$
> Your taxes
> Cost of maintenance 5,000 mi per month = 200$
> Rideshare insurance 150$ addtl
> ...


So your car payment and insurance you would not be paying if you were not Ubering? Interesting that no one has a car payment or insurance until they become Uber drivers.


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## CDP (Nov 11, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> And how much if your car was paid up?


How much you depreciate it I suspect.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

$5 per hour... 100 hours per week... $500 per week. Easy math, easy money. Or something.

In February I was making $20/hr before expenses, and I estimate $14 after expenses. In March it was worse and so on in April and May. It will only get worse from here as the College students leave town, and won't get better again until they come back in August.

Last week I did about 100 trips in about 90 hours online time, and made about $900 through Uber. Estimating about 30% to costs, I still made $630 in the week... so maybe I made roughly $7 per hour last week.

Minimum wage is $7.25/hr, so it's still quite competitive with a minimum wage job even at this low pay.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> $5 per hour... 100 hours per week... $500 per week. Easy math, easy money. Or something.
> 
> In February I was making $20/hr before expenses, and I estimate $14 after expenses. In March it was worse and so on in April and May. It will only get worse from here as the College students leave town, and won't get better again until they come back in August.
> 
> ...


Wow, Friday I did 17 trips, 15 of them before 3 PM and cleared $287, half tank of gas. 8 hours on line.


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## AMERICAN/EUROUBERDRIVER (Apr 19, 2019)

CDP said:


> Your wage should be your state's avg, FL is about 11. Minimum wage is around 8$
> Your taxes
> Cost of maintenance 5,000 mi per month = 200$
> Rideshare insurance 150$ addtl
> ...


440 CAR PAYMENT IN WHT COMPANY I PAY 1100 WITH HERTZ I AM GETTING ROBBED


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

CDP said:


> Your wage should be your state's avg, FL is about 11. Minimum wage is around 8$
> Your taxes
> Cost of maintenance 5,000 mi per month = 200$
> Rideshare insurance 150$ addtl
> ...


Maintenance: 5,000 miles at $.58 deduction=$2,900 a month
Gap insurance: $150 a year or $12.50 a month
Insurance: You have to pay this if you were not an Uber driver
Car payment: You would have to pay this is you were not an Uber driver
Gas for 5,000 miles: Again, tax deduction
Incidentals? Really
Don't forget you also get to claim the depreciation on your vehicle too.

The only thing I see is gas and gap insurance for a grand total of $512 a month minus the remaining tax deduction of $500, leaves a cost of $12.50 a month.

What job pays your car insurance, pays your car payment? These are all things that you pay as part of your settled agreed to wage. I should srike at my day job becuase they won't pay for my gas to get to work or my car payment or my stop for coffee in the morning, seriously?

If you buy a brand new 2019 car for $50K and think driving for uber will make you rich, you're a dumbass. Your car will be worth $10 after two years, no tax deduction will cover that. If you have an older car that looks good and runs good with no car payment, then Ubering will benefit you way more. If there is no business in your area and you still quit your day job and expect a living wage from Ubering, you are a dumbass.

I started in 2015, there were 4 drivers in my area. Now, there has to at least 20. Ubering PT takes me 50 miles away from my home in each direction sometimes. I am lucky to have a good market, but if I were in a lousy market, I would not be an Uber driver FT.


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