# Google and AutoNation partner on self-driving car program



## tomatopaste

AutoNation said Thursday that its dealerships will provide maintenance and repairs for Waymo's self-driving fleet of Chrysler Pacifica vehicles. Waymo is Google's automated vehicle technology wing. The agreement will include additional models of vehicles when Waymo brings them on line.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-autonation-partner-driving-car-program-50881645

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/...es-the-one-to-beat-in-self-driving-space.html


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## tomatopaste

tomatopaste said:


> AutoNation said Thursday that its dealerships will provide maintenance and repairs for Waymo's self-driving fleet of Chrysler Pacifica vehicles. Waymo is Google's automated vehicle technology wing. The agreement will include additional models of vehicles when Waymo brings them on line.
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-autonation-partner-driving-car-program-50881645


Don't be stupid! It's obviously a head fake by Google and they paid off AutoNation to play along. Self driving cars are ten years away. You're not fooling anyone, Tomato.



tomatopaste said:


> Don't be stupid! It's obviously a head fake by Google and they paid off AutoNation to play along. Self driving cars are ten years away. You're not fooling anyone, Tomato.


_
(To save time, Tomato will be playing all the parts)
_
Generic UP community reach-arounder: I thought Tomato said they were partnering with Avis on maintenance?

Tomato: That was just in Phoenix.

Jockey: Looks like Avis caught on to what a hoax this whole self driving crap is. You troll.


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## heynow321

Does your boss know how unstable you appear?


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## tomatopaste

heynow321 said:


> Does your boss know how unstable you appear?


Did you watch the CNBC video? Are you beginning to realize it's time to pull your head out?

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/...es-the-one-to-beat-in-self-driving-space.html


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## tohunt4me

heynow321 said:


> Does your boss know how unstable you appear?


Appearances only scratch the surface.

Transhumanist worship of Robot Overlords which will bring about his own demise.


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## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> Appearances only scratch the surface.
> 
> Transhumanist worship of Robot Overlords which will bring about his own demise.


Keeping your head in the sand for prolonged periods can have adverse effects


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## jocker12

Troll, you don't even know how to read and understand simple text, don't you?

I've told you to stop spreading fake news, but you continue to do so. What you present here is simple intoxication. Notice how they mention - "AutoNation said Thursday that its dealerships will provide maintenance and repairs for Waymo's self-driving fleet of Chrysler Pacifica vehicles." but *Google/Alphabet/Waymo has no current commercial implementation of the technology*. If you ask Waymo's CEO today about their plans, he will say "we'll do it when we're convinced that we're ready".

So all this is NOTHING. *That agreement they have, without the cars on the road is toilet paper*. And as reality presents itself today - November 2nd, 2017, they are giving naive exuberant children diarrhea and children think is hot chocolate.

It is like you don't have a girlfriend, but tell your family and friends that you bought your (imaginary) girlfriend (let's call her Monica) a diamond ring for 2020 Christmas (because you intend to make her your girlfriend sometime before 2021). Do you know what your family and your friends will think about you, knowing you don't have a girlfriend at all (like Google doesn't have a commercial program for their cars on the road), and you are speaking about some imaginary bright future like you think is real?

This is simple propaganda, meant to establish as fact something that not even Waymo is sure about - *putting their self drivable jokes on the road* and pretend they'll provide mobility and convenience to simple people.

I know you are great imagining things, so I have few questions for you, troll. Let's say Waymo launches their product, and those minivans need to be checked by AutoNation technicians, right? How do you think those cars will get inside the shop? Self driving or driven by an evil AutoNation mechanic? Do you see any problems here? hahaha....

If you think Waymo is anticipating their moves and is trying to cover all the details, why don't you do the same and learn how to drive, obey all the rules and regulations, yield to pedestrians and maybe help your friends understand how to stay focused while driving and avoid any distractions. Because, I've already told you, at least 4 generations (that's around 100 years for you) from now on, humans will do the driving the same way we do it today - steering wheel, pedals, eyes on the road and seat belts on.



heynow321 said:


> Does your boss know how unstable you appear?


This multiple personality account holder is obviously disturbed. Imaginary discussions with imaginary virtual individuals is a medical condition. The account holder probably thinks Siri and Alexa will date him in a near future and the voice from the navigation app is his conscience. Ohhhh, dear! I am sure somebody with enough authority will help him and make him stop from publicly humiliating himself on this forum.


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## heynow321

It seems like ramz has dialed back his lunacy a bit as deadlines keep getting missed for the stuff. 

Was having dinner with a family member the other day and her husband is a bigwig in the wind energy business. He does a good amount of business with Elon musk and some of his organizations and was saying that Musk is definitely on the spectrum as i'm sure our friend tomato is as well. I'm sure our friend tomato is as well. That is why these people tend to be good at technical stuff but they very easily miss the big commonsense picture that the rest of us can easily see


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## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> _
> (To save time, Tomato will be playing all the parts)
> _
> 
> Generic UP community reach-arounder: I thought Tomato said they were partnering with Avis on maintenance?
> 
> Tomato: That was just in Phoenix.
> 
> Jockey: Looks like Avis caught on to what a hoax this whole self driving crap is. You troll.


I'm starting to worry about you.


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## WeirdBob

Tomato,

We are getting a bit worried about you here!


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## The Gift of Fish

tomatopaste said:


> AutoNation said Thursday that its dealerships will provide maintenance and repairs for Waymo's self-driving fleet of Chrysler Pacifica vehicles. Waymo is Google's automated vehicle technology wing. The agreement will include additional models of vehicles when Waymo brings them on line.
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-autonation-partner-driving-car-program-50881645
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/...es-the-one-to-beat-in-self-driving-space.html


Do you still think that Google will be launching a commercial fully autonomous rideshare service before Christmas?

Tick tock!












heynow321 said:


> It seems like ramz has dialed back his lunacy a bit as deadlines keep getting missed for the stuff.
> 
> Was having dinner with a family member the other day and her husband is a bigwig in the wind energy business. He does a good amount of business with Elon musk and some of his organizations and was saying that Musk is definitely on the spectrum as i'm sure our friend tomato is as well. I'm sure our friend tomato is as well. That is why these people tend to be good at technical stuff but they very easily miss the big commonsense picture that the rest of us can easily see


It's great that these new tech leaders get excited about what they're doing; SDC, electric power etc etc is obviously the future, but they do keep writing checks that their dev teams can't cash. I can't help thinking this slows overall progress towards the future tech rather than speeding it along.


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## heynow321

The Gift of Fish said:


> Do you still think that Google will be launching a commercial fully autonomous rideshare service before Christmas?
> 
> Tick tock!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's great that these new tech leaders get excited about what they're doing; SDC, electric power etc etc is obviously the future, but they do keep writing checks that their dev teams can't cash. I can't help thinking this slows overall progress towards the future tech rather than speeding it along.


Exactly. Hyping the tech up before it's ready will lead to massive losses for investors. A decade later when the tech might be more viable raising capital might be harder bc investors were burned last time


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## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> I'm starting to worry about you.


What are you talking about? Playing all the parts was a public service, especially the Jockey part. I condensed it down to a sentence while the actual Jockey rambled on for a page and a half, bouncing off the walls about diarrhea and hot chocolate. You're welcome.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Do you still think that Google will be launching a commercial fully autonomous rideshare service before Christmas?
> 
> Tick tock!


Sure do. That's almost two months from now. Seems pretty clear Waymo is getting ready to launch. Reporters going to the Waymo testing facility on Monday and AutoNation CEO on CNBC today. Yuppers. All systems are go.


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## The Gift of Fish

tomatopaste said:


> Sure do. That's almost two months from now. Seems pretty clear Waymo is getting ready to launch. Reporters going to the Waymo testing facility on Monday and AutoNation CEO on CNBC today. Yuppers. All systems are go.


You misunderstand the scope of the program. It's not a commercial rideshare service that could compete with the likes of Uber/Lyft. Rather, from Waymo's own website, the Phoenix program is:










I.e. it's what geeks call "user acceptance testing", or UAT. This stage of tech development is closer to operating in a full business-as-usual production environment, but it is still a development phase. Again, this test program is not a ready-for-general-public commercial service. And it's not rideshare; the vehicles will be loaned to private individuals.

Anyway, regarding your pre-Christmas deadline, I'm not sure where you get this from. There is no launch date mentioned on Waymo's website. The closest they get to revealing a date is, paraphrased, "we'll let you know":










They almost certainly will not issue vehicles to people before the holidays. From a dev perspective this would make little sense - the holidays are when Waymo technical and admin staff are likely to be on holiday; the very people who will be needed to address the issues raised by the car operators.

You make some good points on SDC and technology, but when you take what Waymo is actually doing and "convert" it into wildly inaccurate claims like the one below, you lose credibility.


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## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> How do you think those cars will get inside the shop? Self driving or driven by an evil AutoNation mechanic? Do you see any problems here? hahaha....


Jockey, stay where you are. Some nice men in a van will be by shortly to take you to the zoo.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/710217264da49b28e4a565c1127307ae/tenor.gif?itemid=8980180



The Gift of Fish said:


> You misunderstand the scope of the program. It's not a commercial rideshare service that could compete with the likes of Uber/Lyft. Rather, from Waymo's own website, the Phoenix program is:
> 
> View attachment 172724
> 
> 
> I.e. it's what geeks call "user acceptance testing", or UAT. This stage of tech development is closer to operating in a full business-as-usual production environment, but it is still a development phase. Again, this test program is not a ready-for-general-public commercial service. And it's not rideshare; the vehicles will be loaned to private individuals.
> 
> Anyway, regarding your pre-Christmas deadline, I'm not sure where you get this from. There is no launch date mentioned on Waymo's website. The closest they get to revealing a date is, paraphrased, "we'll let you know":
> 
> View attachment 172725
> 
> 
> They almost certainly will not issue vehicles to people before the holidays. From a dev perspective this would make little sense - the holidays are when Waymo technical and admin staff are likely to be on holiday; the very people who will be needed to address the issues raised by the car operators.
> 
> You make some good points on SDC and technology, but when you take what Waymo is actually doing and "convert" it into wildly inaccurate claims like the one below, you lose credibility.
> 
> View attachment 172726



Real driverless cars could come to the Phoenix area this year, according to a Monday report from The Information's Amir Efrati. Two anonymous sources have told Efrati that Google's self-driving car unit, Waymo, is preparing to launch "a commercial ride-sharing service powered by self-driving vehicles with no human 'safety' drivers as soon as this fall."
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/1...unch-commercial-driverless-service-this-year/


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## The Gift of Fish

tomatopaste said:


> Two anonymous sources have told Efrati that Google's self-driving car unit, Waymo, is preparing to launch "a commercial ride-sharing service powered by self-driving vehicles with no human 'safety' drivers as soon as this fall."


Ah yes, the classic "anonymous sources" quotes. 

I'm just saying that if you excitedly come on here and repost unverified and, indeed, unverifiable internet stories then you stand to lose credibility when they turn out to be baseless. Be more discerning and don't just blindly accept whatever you read is the takeaway from this. Just because someone posts it on the 'net, or even prints it in a newspaper it doesn't mean it's true.


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## tomatopaste

The Gift of Fish said:


> Ah yes, the classic "anonymous sources" quotes.
> 
> I'm just saying that if you excitedly come on here and repost unverified and, indeed, unverifiable internet stories then you stand to lose credibility when they turn out to be baseless. Be more discerning and don't just blindly accept whatever you read is the takeaway from this. Just because someone posts it on the 'net, or even prints it in a newspaper it doesn't mean it's true.



Did Waymo's CEO say on Monday, we're very close. Yes.
Did Waymo invite reporters to ride in a Waymo SDC with no one in the drivers seat, on Monday? Yes.
Did AutoNation's CEO go on CNBC on Thursday and say: "where they will be having a ridesharing service that's fully autonomous?" Yes. Yes he did.


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## The Gift of Fish

tomatopaste said:


> Did Waymo's CEO say on Monday, we're very close. Yes.
> Did Waymo invite reporters to ride in a Waymo SDC with no one in the drivers seat, on Monday? Yes.
> Did AutoNation's CEO go on CNBC on Thursday and say: "where they will be having a ridesharing service that's fully autonomous?" Yes. Yes he did.


The content of my last two posts dealt exclusively with debunking the fictional story you reposted about Waymo allegedly launching a fully autonomous and driverless commercial rideshare service before Christmas.

Regardless of how far or not Waymo is along its path towards a commercial product, my message was that redistributing hype/spin articles is pretty pointless. But that's just my suggestion; you're obviously free to take it or continue to repost them.


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## tomatopaste

The Gift of Fish said:


> The content of my last two posts dealt exclusively with debunking the fictional story you reposted about Waymo allegedly launching a fully autonomous and driverless commercial rideshare service before Christmas.
> 
> Regardless of how far or not Waymo is along its path towards a commercial product, my message was that redistributing hype/spin articles is pretty pointless. But that's just my suggestion; you're obviously free to take it or continue to repost them.


Why is it hype/spin or being a troll when I point out articles showing Google about to launch a self driving taxi service in Phoenix? Why is it not hype/spin or being a troll when the vaunted "UP community" refuses to accept it?

There are Uber drivers in Phoenix going out and buying SUV's to do Uber. I'm telling them that's a bad business decision. You're saying, go ahead, stick your finger in the light socket, you'll be fine. Who do you think is going to make it into heaven, me or you?


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## The Gift of Fish

tomatopaste said:


> Why is it hype/spin or being a troll when I point out articles showing Google about to launch a self driving taxi service in Phoenix? Why is it not hype/spin or being a troll when the vaunted "UP community" refuses to accept it?
> 
> There are Uber drivers in Phoenix going out and buying SUV's to do Uber. I'm telling them that's a bad business decision. You're saying, go ahead, stick your finger in the light socket, you'll be fine. Who do you think is going to make it into heaven, me or you?


Now you're just being silly.


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## jocker12

tomatopaste said:


> Jockey, stay where you are. Some nice men in a van will be by shortly to take you to the zoo.


You were probably told they will give you a new caretaker, but that is not me. By the way, the cage you see around you is not in a Zoo, is a mental hospital, your Cuckoo's nest.



tomatopaste said:


> Why is it hype/spin or being a troll when I point out articles showing Google about to launch a self driving taxi service in Phoenix? Why is it not hype/spin or being a troll when the vaunted "UP community" refuses to accept it?
> 
> There are Uber drivers in Phoenix going out and buying SUV's to do Uber. I'm telling them that's a bad business decision. You're saying, go ahead, stick your finger in the light socket, you'll be fine. Who do you think is going to make it into heaven, me or you?


So, you think you are some sort of Neo in the Matrix, but unlike Neo who wants to save the humanity FROM the machines, you want to convince the humans the machines are their friends. Hahahaha.... And *when we call you out for your BS fake information and fake news you intentionally put on this forum*, you say is not your fault, is the media's imagination. Like Trump when he said he was wiretapped, but when confronted with evidence how he was not, he told journalists to go speak with the Fox and Friends show producers, because they said that on their show... hahahahaha... And you mention "heaven" in your small predictable binary way of thinking, confirming you really see an imaginary friend sitting on your shoulder.



tomatopaste said:


> I'm telling them that's a bad business decision.


How many Uber drivers from Phoenix have you actually (in reality, literally) spoken with and told them not to buy an SUV?

Ask the nurses to cut your WiFi, take your meds, drink your milk and go to bed. *Google/Waymo naive troll* completely lost it.


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## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> How many Uber drivers from Phoenix have you actually (in reality, literally) spoken with and told them not to buy an SUV?





jocker12 said:


> How many Uber drivers from Phoenix have you actually (in reality, literally) spoken with and told them not to buy an SUV?


I told ACHUMA he should get his head examined when he asked, what should I get? It went downhill from there. It was not pretty. Everyone in Phoenix hates me.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/i-might-be-joining-the-xl-plus-rank-what-should-i-get.205055/page-4



jocker12 said:


> So, you think you are some sort of Neo in the Matrix, but unlike Neo who wants to save the humanity FROM the machines, you want to convince the humans the machines are their friends. Hahahaha.... And *when we call you out for your BS fake information and fake news you intentionally put on this forum*, you say is not your fault, is the media's imagination. Like Trump when he said he was wiretapped, but when confronted with evidence how he was not, he told journalists to go speak with the Fox and Friends show producers, because they said that on their show... hahahahaha... And you mention "heaven" in your small predictable binary way of thinking


To save time, here's a condensed version of what Jockey said:


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## RamzFanz

heynow321 said:


> It seems like ramz has dialed back his lunacy a bit as deadlines keep getting missed for the stuff.
> 
> Was having dinner with a family member the other day and her husband is a bigwig in the wind energy business. He does a good amount of business with Elon musk and some of his organizations and was saying that Musk is definitely on the spectrum as i'm sure our friend tomato is as well. I'm sure our friend tomato is as well. That is why these people tend to be good at technical stuff but they very easily miss the big commonsense picture that the rest of us can easily see


Not a single deadline I'm aware of has been missed, I've just tired of repeating the facts.

In fact, the effort to reach self driving TNCs has accelerated and is very likely to happen next year rather than original predictions of 2020 or so.


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## ChortlingCrison

RamzFanz said:


> Not a single deadline I'm aware of has been missed, I've just tired of repeating the facts.
> 
> In fact, the effort to reach self driving TNCs has accelerated and is very likely to happen next year rather than original predictions of 2020 or so.


If that does happen, would you be willing to be one of the first passengers to test it out?


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## tomatopaste

ChortlingCrison said:


> If that does happen, would you be willing to be one of the first passengers to test it out?


The line to be the first commercial passenger of a self driving car is miles long. He/she will be as famous as Neil Armstrong. It will not be left to chance.


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## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> Not a single deadline I'm aware of has been missed.


Several deadlines have, in fact, been missed. Here are a couple:

Claim: _"We'll see these vehicles on the road within the year"_ (talking about Google's little self driving pod cars)
Made by: Chris Urmson, then Director of Google's self driving car project
Date of Claim: May 2014
Status Now: Car cancelled
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27587558

Claim: _"We'll be able to do a demonstration guide of full autonomy all the way from LA to New York. So basically from home in LA to Times Square in New York. And then have the car go and park itself by the end of next year"_ 
Made by: Elon Musk
Date of Claim: October 2016
Status Now: "I_t is certainly possible that I will have egg on my face on that front, but if it's not at the end of the year it will be very close,_" Musk said.
Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/elon...-2016-10?utm_source=markets&utm_medium=ingest, http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-may-delay-la-ny-self-driving-demo-2017-8

One golden rule you learn in tech development is never, ever give target dates for delivery of anything unless it is absolutely unavoidable. The above two examples illustrate why not.

When I worked in tech development, the people paying for each project would demand that I gave them dates. My standard procedure was to plan out the project duration, and then double it.

Not all tech dev leaders give deadlines which have not / won't be met. Sergey Brin, for example, is a lot more sensible in this regard.


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## RamzFanz

ChortlingCrison said:


> If that does happen, would you be willing to be one of the first passengers to test it out?


Yes.

But I would also be willing to take a SpaceX rocket to space, so take that for what it's worth.

Would I put my child in one? No. I would wait for real world statistics.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Several deadlines have, in fact, been missed. Here are a couple:
> 
> Claim: _"We'll see these vehicles on the road within the year"_ (talking about Google's little self driving pod cars)
> Made by: Chris Urmson, then Director of Google's self driving car project
> Date of Claim: May 2014
> Status Now: Car cancelled
> Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27587558
> 
> Claim: _"We'll be able to do a demonstration guide of full autonomy all the way from LA to New York. So basically from home in LA to Times Square in New York. And then have the car go and park itself by the end of next year"_
> Made by: Elon Musk
> Date of Claim: October 2016
> Status Now: "I_t is certainly possible that I will have egg on my face on that front, but if it's not at the end of the year it will be very close,_" Musk said.
> Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/elon...-2016-10?utm_source=markets&utm_medium=ingest, http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-may-delay-la-ny-self-driving-demo-2017-8
> 
> One golden rule you learn in tech development is never, ever give target dates for delivery of anything unless it is absolutely unavoidable. The above two examples illustrate why not.
> 
> When I worked in tech development, the people paying for each project would demand that I gave them dates. My standard procedure was to plan out the project duration, and then double it.
> 
> Not all tech dev leaders give deadlines which have not / won't be met. Sergey Brin, for example, is a lot more sensible in this regard.


Chris was clearly talking about test vehicles which, in fact, happened. Yes, they canceled their car project and opted to go solely with platform development for manufacturers to lease. This decision almost certainly improved their launch date.

Any prediction Elon makes should be taken with a grain of salt. He's a genius visionary but also an eternal optimist.

Waymo is clearly preparing to launch. They have marketing campaigns in Pheonex preparing the public. They are training the police on how the cars can be pulled over and how to deal with them in accidents. tomatopaste may be a bit optimistic looking for it to happen this year, but I wouldn't be shocked if he were right. I'm betting on early next year because of last minute hesitation. They are very cautious.


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## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> Waymo is clearly preparing to launch. They have marketing campaigns in Pheonex preparing the public. They are training the police on how the cars can be pulled over and how to deal with them in accidents. tomatopaste may be a bit optimistic looking for it to happen this year, but I wouldn't be shocked if he were right. I'm betting on early next year because of last minute hesitation. They are very cautious.


"Waymo is clearly preparing to launch" sounds a bit overly dramatic, as if it were a Saturn 5. I wouldn't say that Waymo is launching anything; what they are doing in Phoenix is simply moving their car program from the internal test environment to an external UAT user acceptance testing environment. UAT is iterative, meaning that once feedback starts coming back from the testers it will be fed back to the dev team, who will continue development work on the vehicles.

It's hard to say when the all-important commercial launch of a Waymo self driving product will be. The common commentary among SDC developers seems to be that getting the cars to 99% functionality is relatively straightforward; it's the final 1% that's hard. How long it takes them to iron out all the "1%" issues is anyone's guess. Not even Waymo knows this (the point of testing is to discover bugs in the system; if all bugs were known before testing there would be no reason to test for them).


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## tomatopaste

RamzFanz said:


> Waymo is clearly preparing to launch. They have marketing campaigns in Pheonex preparing the public. They are training the police on how the cars can be pulled over and how to deal with them in accidents. tomatopaste may be a bit optimistic looking for it to happen this year, but I wouldn't be shocked if he were right. I'm betting on early next year because of last minute hesitation. They are very cautious.


I still think they'll launch before the end of the year, unless there's something truly significant they need to iron out. But if that were the case I don't think they would've begun the public campaign already.

You don't want to leave people hanging for months on end, it creates doubt. Also from a marketing standpoint it's a very big deal to say they launched in 2017 when most others won't launch til 2021. And I'm guessing they want to get as many miles under their belt before the 120 degree heat returns.


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## RamzFanz

The Gift of Fish said:


> "Waymo is clearly preparing to launch" sounds a bit overly dramatic, as if it were a Saturn 5. I wouldn't say that Waymo is launching anything; what they are doing in Phoenix is simply moving their car program from the internal test environment to an external UAT user acceptance testing environment. UAT is iterative, meaning that once feedback starts coming back from the testers it will be fed back to the dev team, who will continue development work on the vehicles.
> 
> It's hard to say when the all-important commercial launch of a Waymo self driving product will be. The common commentary among SDC developers seems to be that getting the cars to 99% functionality is relatively straightforward; it's the final 1% that's hard. How long it takes them to iron out all the "1%" issues is anyone's guess. Not even Waymo knows this (the point of testing is to discover bugs in the system; if all bugs were known before testing there would be no reason to test for them).


What's funny to me is a year ago everyone was saying 90% was easy and 10% could take many years, now here we are.

Let me rephrase, Waymo's about to go live. And yes, it is in optimal conditions to discover their deficiencies in optimal conditions before they move on. Move on, they will. I admire their caution.


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## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> What's funny to me is a year ago everyone was saying 90% was easy and 10% could take many years, now here we are.


I hadn't heard anyone say 90%. However, the point is that it's easy to get to a certain point, after which the difficult problems remain. These are problems which must be solved before commercial launch.


> Let me rephrase, Waymo's about to go live.


Nope; that's still not correct. If a developer told a client that their system was about to go live when in fact they were only just beginning UAT, that dev would be in a world of trouble.

Waymo is still very much in the development phase with their project. Are they close to going into full live production? Who knows. How long's a piece of string.


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## RamzFanz

tomatopaste said:


> I still think they'll launch before the end of the year, unless there's something truly significant they need to iron out. But if that were the case I don't think they would've begun the public campaign already.
> 
> You don't want to leave people hanging for months on end, it creates doubt. Also from a marketing standpoint it's a very big deal to say they launched in 2017 when most others won't launch til 2021. And I'm guessing they want to get as many miles under their belt before the 120 degree heat returns.


I see them as a different entity. I see them as a cautious, well funded, be right not fast, kind of mindset. If anyone steps back for a moment, it's Waymo in my mind. Especially since they are well out ahead and building a leasable platform that allows manufacturers to jump ahead by years for a premium price.

They need a smooth launch. More than an early launch. They have to convince manufacturers to buy in. They're so far ahead, they have the luxury of time.

I would guess they launch early next year, all factors considered. But if they do it this year, I won't be shocked.

Whichever the case, there are about to be some very shocked nay-sayers on this site.



The Gift of Fish said:


> I hadn't heard anyone say 90%. However, the point is that it's easy to get to a certain point, after which the difficult problems remain. These are problems which must be solved before commercial launch.
> Nope; that's still not correct. If a developer told a client that their system was about to go live when in fact they were only just beginning UAT, that dev would be in a world of trouble.
> 
> Waymo is still very much in the development phase with their project. Are they close to going into full live production? Who knows. How long's a piece of string.


Let's boil this down:

Waymo is about to start carrying paying passengers, probably in Phoenix, on live roads, soon. "Soon" is probably this year or early next year.

The ultimate question in this forum is "When does this affect me." The answer for Phoenix drivers is soon. The answer for Boston or rural drivers may be years from now.

The ultimate point for the nay-sayers is that the clock is ticking, it's coming, and it can't be stopped. They need to consider that as urban drivers lose their market, they will be squeezing into yours.

Human driving, especially for profit, is almost at the beginning of its end.


----------



## tomatopaste

RamzFanz said:


> I see them as a different entity. I see them as a cautious, well funded, be right not fast, kind of mindset. If anyone steps back for a moment, it's Waymo in my mind. Especially since they are well out ahead and building a leasable platform that allows manufacturers to jump ahead by years for a premium price.
> 
> They need a smooth launch. More than an early launch. They have to convince manufacturers to buy in. They're so far ahead, they have the luxury of time.
> 
> I would guess they launch early next year, all factors considered. But if they do it this year, I won't be shocked.
> 
> Whichever the case, there are about to be some very shocked nay-sayers on this site.
> 
> Let's boil this down:
> 
> Waymo is about to start carrying paying TNC passengers, probably in Phoenix, on live roads, soon.


I've heard Larry Page wanted to launch in 2016. I think there are competing camps, Larry's in the 'let's go' camp and I think Krafcik is in the cautious camp. I also have the feeling Chris Urmson might have left because he was in the cautious camp.

Almost no one in the general public has any idea this is about to go live. The day it goes live it will be the lead story on every newscast worldwide. Billions of jaws will hit the floor at the same time.


----------



## RamzFanz

tomatopaste said:


> I've heard Larry Page wanted to launch in 2016. I think there are competing camps, Larry's in the 'let's go' camp and I think Krafcik is in the cautious camp. I also have the feeling Chris Urmson might have left because he was in the cautious camp.
> 
> Almost no one in the general public has any idea this is about to go live. The day it goes live it will be the lead story on every newscast worldwide. Billions of jaws will hit the floor at the same time.


This, good people, is all true.

Waymo was launched with a marketing CEO over a technical CEO for a reason. They are marketing self driving in Phoenix for a reason. They are training cops in Phoenix for a reason. They are on interview tours in Phoenix for a reason. They allowed a reporter to see their specially marked level 4 car for a reason. They then gave rides in a level 4 car for a reason.

STILL, I will place my money on a short delay over earliest predictions. By short, I mean early 2018, which is now years ahead of what I wrote in my blog. If tomatopaste is correct, I tip my hat. If the nay-sayers are correct, that launch of a SDC TNC service is a decade away, I'll eat it.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> Let's boil this down:
> 
> Waymo is about to start carrying paying passengers, probably in Phoenix, on live roads, soon.


Lol, you're determined to keep the "live" claim somewhere in your posts. I'll assume you mean public roads.



> "Soon" is probably this year or early next year.


Agreed, I believe that they will start testing their vehicles with end users this year or next year. This is what they wrote on their website, and I believe this.

As far as when a live production version of the vehicle will be ready for commercial release, that's anyone's guess. It is coming, just as the next big quake is, but right now we don't know when.

I do not think that there will be one "launch" of an all-encompassing, any driving scenario SDC. I believe it will come in stages. Cars that can operate in the Sun Belt will be ready before cars that need to be able to operate in snow, for example. But a "light switch" scenario, where one day there is no commercially available SDC for all and *boom* the next day there is, is not the likely course of events. Just as Tesla's current technology is limited, i.e. the car can drive itself in select driving conditions, but you have to keep your hands on the wheel, the first commercially available SDC from Waymo will also come with restrictions, which will be lifted as and when the technical limitations are solved.


----------



## RamzFanz

The Gift of Fish said:


> Lol, you're determined to keep the "live" claim somewhere in your posts. I'll assume you mean public roads.
> 
> Agreed, I believe that they will start testing their vehicles with end users this year or next year. This is what they wrote on their website, and I believe this.
> 
> As far as when a live production version of the vehicle will be ready for commercial release, that's anyone's guess. It is coming, just as the next big quake is, but right now we don't know when.
> 
> I do not think that there will be one "launch" of an all-encompassing, any driving scenario SDC. I believe it will come in stages. Cars that can operate in the Sun Belt will be ready before cars that need to be able to operate in snow, for example. But a "light switch" scenario, where one day there is no commercially available SDC for all and *boom* the next day there is, is not the likely course of events. Just as Tesla's current technology is limited, i.e. the car can drive itself in select driving conditions, but you have to keep your hands on the wheel, the first commercially available SDC from Waymo will also come with restrictions, which will be lifted as and when the technical limitations are solved.


OK, in fairness, you don't know my history of this discussion on here nor you mine.

We agree. I agree with you.

SDCs went live in May of 2016. Now it's just incremental improvements.

The big question is when it will affect Uber drivers and that's complicated.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> If tomatopaste is correct, I tip my hat. If the nay-sayers are correct, that launch of a SDC TNC service is a decade away, I'll eat it.


He still believes that what Waymo is trying to achieve with its current program in Phoenix is the launch of a commercial, driverless TNC service before Christmas, not the actual intention to have members of the public conduct UAT, so obviously he's not right about that.



RamzFanz said:


> OK, in fairness, you don't know my history of this discussion on here nor you mine.
> 
> We agree. I agree with you.
> 
> SDCs went live in May of 2016. Now it's just incremental improvements.
> 
> The big question is when it will affect Uber drivers and that's complicated.


Good point - this highlights the need to be specific and differential between SDC and driverless cars. All of my posts should have said driverless, not SDC.


----------



## RamzFanz

The Gift of Fish said:


> He still believes that what Waymo is trying to achieve with its current program in Phoenix is the launch of a commercial, driverless TNC service before Christmas, not the actual intention to have members of the public conduct UAT, so obviously he's not right about that.
> 
> Good point - this highlights the need to be specific and differential between SDC and driverless cars. All of my posts should have said driverless, not SDC.


I don't know if that's what he's saying, but I agree that it is a testing grounds for end users.

I say SDC TNC over Autonomous. We already have SDCs and have for over a year but the Uber driver's worst enemy is the Urban SDC TNC.

Level 5 is a nay-sayers dream. They are coming for the urban TNC markets and they are coming fast. This is a $14T market with hundreds of billions in investment. It's not a 800 LB gorilla, it's endless 800 LB gorillas.

The outcome is as clear as can be, the only question for an Uber driver is when will it happen for me.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> I don't know if that's what he's saying, but I agree that it is a testing grounds for end users.














> The outcome is as clear as can be, the only question for an Uber driver is when will it happen for me.


It's taken Waymo 8.5 years to go from the start of the project to the start of end user testing. Very rough ballpark guess would be another couple of years to get from start of UAT to commercial production, plus a bit more for the building of TNC operations. So I'd say there's another 2.5 years definitely left in this job. But again, it won't be a light switch on/off transition. After driverless TNC starts, demand for drivers will decline rather than end on day 1.


----------



## tomatopaste

The Gift of Fish said:


> He still believes that what Waymo is trying to achieve with its current program in Phoenix is the launch of a commercial, driverless TNC service before Christmas, not the actual intention to have members of the public conduct UAT, so obviously he's not right about that.
> 
> Good point - this highlights the need to be specific and differential between SDC and driverless cars. All of my posts should have said driverless, not SDC.


Driverless, self driving, autonomous, it's all the same thing. Google is launching a driverless, self driving, autonomous commercial TNC, rideshare, taxi service, call it what you want, in Phoenix before Christmas or soon thereafter. Bottom line, passengers that used to take Uber in Phoenix will now be taking Waymo. Uber drivers in Phoenix will have less money in their wallets.


----------



## RamzFanz

The Gift of Fish said:


> View attachment 173033
> 
> 
> It's taken Waymo 8.5 years to go from the start of the project to the start of end user testing. Very rough ballpark guess would be another couple of years to get from start of UAT to commercial production, plus a bit more for the building of TNC operations. So I'd say there's another 2.5 years definitely left in this job. But again, it won't be a light switch on/off transition. After driverless TNC starts, demand for drivers will decline rather than end on day 1.


I doubt your timeline. Google started TNC testing years ago.

Yes, some will have time to Uber, others will not. They will get squeezed out of areas causing saturation stress on others.

My only real point as it matters here is that it's real, it's coming, and in the end, you better have a plan.

If you drive in urban Pheonex, you're screwed. If you drive in rural MS, you have time.

Almost no one agrees with your timeline. Even if they did, we're talking about dozens of fleets of SDC TNCs in cities by 2020.

Dozens. Not in all cities, but in many.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> I doubt your timeline. Google started TNC testing years ago.


TNC does not need testing. It's a proven, already-released commercial service; we all work for TNC companies. Do you mean driverless cars? Assuming you do then yes, of course Google started testing years ago, but testing of a different type. A common testing program sequence, and the different test types are sequential, is (1) unit testing, (2) system testing and finally (3) UAT. Testing starts very soon after development starts in any software dev project; the fact that testing is being carried out does not indicate where a project is in its development cycle; the type of testing being carried out does.


> My only real point as it matters here is that it's real, it's coming, and in the end, you better have a plan.


Yes, a plan would be a good idea. More than driverless cars being an imminent (<2 years) threat to drivers though, I think that the next recession is a much more pressing matter. That's a whole different story, though.


----------



## RamzFanz

The Gift of Fish said:


> TNC does not need testing. It's a proven, already-released commercial service; we all work for TNC companies. Do you mean driverless cars? Assuming you do then yes, of course Google started testing years ago, but testing of a different type. A common testing program sequence, and the different test types are sequential, is (1) unit testing, (2) system testing and finally (3) UAT. Testing starts very soon after development starts in any software dev project; the fact that testing is being carried out does not indicate where a project is in its development cycle; the type of testing being carried out does.
> Yes, a plan would be a good idea. More than driverless cars being an imminent (<2 years) threat to drivers though, I think that the next recession is a much more pressing matter. That's a whole different story, though.


I agree about the next recession, although I think it will be a lot about automation.

What I mean is that Google is no foreigner to TNC, as they have exercised their own for years, and they also own parts of Uber and Lyft. The obvious is obvious.

Let's boil down:

Is Waymo poised to enter the TNC SDC market soon?

Yes.

Is it a light switch for all areas?

No.

Are some Uber drivers at risk in the next year?

Without a doubt. Read my dated blog. This was all foreseeable. It's accelerating.

Soon, some drivers will be forced out. Later, many of us will be. We are talking months for some in some areas and years in others, but it's coming.

The trickle will become a tidal wave. It's not slowing, it's accelerating. I believe this is the largest single goal ever undertaken by corporations. It's a worldwide race to market share.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

RamzFanz said:


> Is Waymo poised to enter the TNC SDC market soon?


We shall see; only time will tell.



tomatopaste said:


> Driverless, self driving, autonomous, it's all the same thing.


No, as RamzFanz correctly alluded to, it is not the same thing.


> Google is launching a driverless, self driving, autonomous commercial TNC, rideshare, taxi service, call it what you want, in Phoenix before Christmas or soon thereafter.


The demonstrated fact that your claims are incorrect is not the reason you have lost credibility here. Everyone is wrong sometimes. Rather, the reason you lose credibility is because you still stick to your guns and argue a point even after you are proven incorrect. It shows that you lack impartiality and that you prefer bias over fact.


----------



## tomatopaste

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, as RamzFanz correctly alluded to, it is not the same thing.


Please explain the difference.



The Gift of Fish said:


> The demonstrated fact that your claims are incorrect is not the reason you have lost credibility here. Everyone is wrong sometimes. Rather, the reason you lose credibility is because you still stick to your guns and argue a point even after you are proven incorrect. It shows that you lack impartiality and that you prefer bias over fact.


Please explain which of my facts are incorrect.



RamzFanz said:


> Human driving, especially for profit, is almost at the beginning of its end.


Well said.


----------



## UberLaLa

It's gonna be _Waymo_ time before SDC's make their way into the public sector of things...


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Keeping your head in the sand for prolonged periods can have adverse effects


Look Tomato,
I don't know if you are :

A) a PR Rep for SDC companies
Or
B) just some nut in his mom's basement

But if it is choice A, then you really need to act more professionally with what and how you post.

You come off looking and sounding crazy, for lack of a better word.

And as a rep for Waymo, GM, or whatever... you make them look crazy by association.

I will only tip you off this one time as a courtesy. The rest is up to you.



RamzFanz said:


> I see them as a different entity. I see them as a cautious, well funded, be right not fast, kind of mindset. If anyone steps back for a moment, it's Waymo in my mind. Especially since they are well out ahead and building a leasable platform that allows manufacturers to jump ahead by years for a premium price.
> 
> They need a smooth launch. More than an early launch. They have to convince manufacturers to buy in. They're so far ahead, they have the luxury of time.
> 
> I would guess they launch early next year, all factors considered. But if they do it this year, I won't be shocked.
> 
> Whichever the case, there are about to be some very shocked nay-sayers on this site.
> 
> Let's boil this down:
> 
> Waymo is about to start carrying paying passengers, probably in Phoenix, on live roads, soon. "Soon" is probably this year or early next year.
> 
> The ultimate question in this forum is "When does this affect me." The answer for Phoenix drivers is soon. The answer for Boston or rural drivers may be years from now.
> 
> The ultimate point for the nay-sayers is that the clock is ticking, it's coming, and it can't be stopped. They need to consider that as urban drivers lose their market, they will be squeezing into yours.
> 
> Human driving, especially for profit, is almost at the beginning of its end.


I think that for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death, SDCs becoming a successful commercial ride share business that will threaten human uber drivers is realistically so far down the line that the current crop of Uber drivers will be retired by then.

Now, whether any and all
SDC "fanboys" on this site care to argue the opposite, it is merely for reasons of bias.

If the fanboys are actually employees in the SDC world somewhere, then their opinions are definitely biased.

As for who is right, who is wrong. The only way to prove it is to let it unfold on its own.



RamzFanz said:


> If you drive in urban Pheonex, you're screwed.


That's assuming that when Waymo launches in Phoenix it will be a success. I laid out tons of reasons over many posts why it will not. I was called crazy by the Tomato (which is ironic), but bottom line I really don't care if you believe me or not because when it all unfolds you can see for yourself.

In fact, I'd RATHER see Waymo in Phoenix sooner rather than later so I can say "I told you so" quicker.


----------



## tomatopaste

The Gift of Fish said:


> The demonstrated fact that your claims are incorrect is not the reason you have lost credibility here. Everyone is wrong sometimes. Rather, the reason you lose credibility is because you still stick to your guns and argue a point even after you are proven incorrect. It shows that you lack impartiality and that you prefer bias over fact.


I'm not interested in having credibility with the "UP community." That's part of the problem, too many on here are more interested in being accepted than educating themselves on what's real and what is not.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> I'm not interested in having credibility with the "UP community." That's part of the problem, too many on here are more interested in being accepted than educating themselves on what's real and what is not.


Do you know who an uber driver is? It's someone who's in his 40s or 50s, and has been around the block a few times.

He's most likely ran a business before, worked in the corporate world, and definitely knows how people tick.

You should listen to the "UP community" instead of writing them off.


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Look Tomato,
> I don't know if you are :
> 
> A) a PR Rep for SDC companies
> Or
> B) just some nut in his mom's basement
> 
> But if it is choice A, then you really need to act more professionally with what and how you post.
> 
> You come off looking and sounding crazy, for lack of a better word.
> 
> And as a rep for Waymo, GM, or whatever... you make them look crazy by association.
> 
> I will only tip you off this one time as a courtesy. The rest is up to you.


Why does everyone blow off 'C', Russian spy? One time?! Most teachers gave me at least 3 warnings.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Why does everyone blow off 'C', Russian spy? One time?! Most teachers gave me at least 3 warnings.


You mean when you were in high school... last year?


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Do you know who an uber driver is? It's someone who's in his 40s or 50s, and has been around the block a few times.
> 
> He's most likely ran a business before, worked in the corporate world, and definitely knows how people tick.
> 
> You should listen to the "UP community" instead of writing them off.


Is the "UP community" going to keep ignoring literally everything, like this CNBC interview, right up until Waymo launches? Cause that will end up be very very embarrassing for the "community."

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/...es-the-one-to-beat-in-self-driving-space.html


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Is the "UP community" going to keep ignoring literally everything, like this CNBC interview, right up until Waymo launches? Cause that will end up be very very embarrassing for the "community."
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/...es-the-one-to-beat-in-self-driving-space.html


Sir, there's no clip, no news link, no quote from some CEO that can compare to what will actually happen in the real world. So.. we wait and see.


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Sir, there's no clip, no news link, no quote from some CEO that can compare to what will actually happen in the real world. So.. we wait and see.


It's not 'some' CEO, it's two CEO's. I highly doubt you have the authority to unilaterally poo poo the word from two CEO's without calling together all community leaders and bringing it up for a vote.

1. "[Waymo] has a vision of a shared vehicle that is operating autonomously, but at the highest level of safety. I believe Waymo is the leader in this ambition to have a shared autonomous vehicle in the marketplace," said AutoNation CEO Mike Jackson on a conference call with Wall Street analysts on Thursday.

Jackson said the agreement gets AutoNation in on the ground floor of shared autonomous vehicles.

"I look at this and say I want to be part of it, and I want AutoNation to be part of it. When I look at the future of mobility, it will revolve around sharing. We think we can play a vital role in that," he told analysts, whose seemed intrigued by the deal.

2. Waymo CEO John Krafcik said AutoNation "will help assure that Waymo vehicles are always in top condition as we bring fully self-driving cars to the public."

http://staugustine.com/business/2017-11-04/google-partners-self-driving-car-program


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> It's not 'some' CEO, it's two CEO's. I highly doubt you have the authority to unilaterally poo poo the word from two CEO's without calling together all community leaders and bringing it up for a vote.
> 
> 1. "[Waymo] has a vision of a shared vehicle that is operating autonomously, but at the highest level of safety. I believe Waymo is the leader in this ambition to have a shared autonomous vehicle in the marketplace," said AutoNation CEO Mike Jackson on a conference call with Wall Street analysts on Thursday.
> 
> Jackson said the agreement gets AutoNation in on the ground floor of shared autonomous vehicles.
> 
> "I look at this and say I want to be part of it, and I want AutoNation to be part of it. When I look at the future of mobility, it will revolve around sharing. We think we can play a vital role in that," he told analysts, whose seemed intrigued by the deal.
> 
> 2. Waymo CEO John Krafcik said AutoNation "will help assure that Waymo vehicles are always in top condition as we bring fully self-driving cars to the public."
> 
> http://staugustine.com/business/2017-11-04/google-partners-self-driving-car-program


Now I know why your insane online behavior hasn't gotten you fired. You're one of these guy's nephew.

Who would object to their crazy nephew defending them online? Who indeed.


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Now I know why your insane online behavior hasn't gotten you fired. You're one of these guy's nephew.
> 
> Who would object to their crazy nephew defending them online? Who indeed.


HEY UBER PEOPLE COMMUNITY! iheartuber is usurping authority.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> HEY UBER PEOPLE COMMUNITY! iheartuber is usurping authority.


I know how this movie ends and I now grow bored with it, and you.

You're a water boy for SDCs, you spew propaganda, blah blah blah... yawn.


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> I know how this movie ends and I now grow bored with it, and you.
> 
> You're a water boy for SDCs, you spew propaganda, blah blah blah... yawn.


Oh c'mon, that was funny. You're probably just too close. Ask a family member if it was funny.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Oh c'mon, that was funny. You're probably just too close. Ask a family member if it was funny.


If you're really concerned with being funny get some tips from Monica. She has better humor skills than you.

If she's even a real person. Maybe she's one of your multiple personalities?

Who knows!


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Do you know who an uber driver is? It's someone who's in his 40s or 50s, and has been around the block a few times.
> 
> He's most likely ran a business before, worked in the corporate world, and definitely knows how people tick.
> 
> You should listen to the "UP community" instead of writing them off.


Employers that stumble on Uber People are not asking themselves, "geez, how do I tap into that pool of top flight talent?" That I can tell you.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Employers that stumble on Uber People are not asking themselves, "geez, how do I tap into that pool of top flight talent?" That I can tell you.


----------



## WeirdBob

*Your Pixel 2 XL May Arrive With No Operating System*

_Google appears to be having a new Pixel 2 XL quality control issue, according to disappointed Reddit users. _

https://www.pcmag.com/news/357167/your-pixel-2-xl-may-arrive-with-no-operating-system
_
By Angela Moscaritolo | November 3, 2017 12:15PM EST_

Some Pixel 2 XL buyers have been let down to discover their phone was missing one very important thing: an operating system.

"I came home excited to unbox my new Pixel 2 XL$849.99 at Verizon Wireless. Upon turning on the device I was greeted with a black screen stating, 'Can't find valid operating system. The device will not start,'" Reddit user pdoubleyou recounted. "Spent an hour on the chat with two different customer service reps and they are wanting to send me a replacement phone. Really frustrating."

Pdoubleyou isn't the only one who has experienced this issue.

"Mine came with no OS too!!!," another user, Lewey52, wrote. "I couldn't even boot into recovery! Just got it today, was pretty excited &#8230; Then, 'No Valid OS.'"
. . .​______________________________________________________________​
Perhaps Waymo can spare a couple QC people to help out the Pixel gang?


----------



## iheartuber

WeirdBob said:


> *Your Pixel 2 XL May Arrive With No Operating System*
> 
> _Google appears to be having a new Pixel 2 XL quality control issue, according to disappointed Reddit users. _
> 
> https://www.pcmag.com/news/357167/your-pixel-2-xl-may-arrive-with-no-operating-system
> _
> By Angela Moscaritolo | November 3, 2017 12:15PM EST_
> 
> Some Pixel 2 XL buyers have been let down to discover their phone was missing one very important thing: an operating system.
> 
> "I came home excited to unbox my new Pixel 2 XL$849.99 at Verizon Wireless. Upon turning on the device I was greeted with a black screen stating, 'Can't find valid operating system. The device will not start,'" Reddit user pdoubleyou recounted. "Spent an hour on the chat with two different customer service reps and they are wanting to send me a replacement phone. Really frustrating."
> 
> Pdoubleyou isn't the only one who has experienced this issue.
> 
> "Mine came with no OS too!!!," another user, Lewey52, wrote. "I couldn't even boot into recovery! Just got it today, was pretty excited &#8230; Then, 'No Valid OS.'"
> . . .​______________________________________________________________​
> Perhaps Waymo can spare a couple QC people to help out the Pixel gang?


You see, if it was one thing, maybe two things, I'd say ok. But we have MULTIPLE red flags:

1. Professional drivers both uber and taxi say the price point to use is at least $1.50 a mile, but the Tomato insists they can make "a killing" at a mere 35 cents
2. I say, "how will you account for maintenance, refueling, and even simple car washes?" He says "oh those are trivial things"
3. Now we have instances where Google's other Dept, the Pixel phone Dept, is having issues. 
4. Many people say SDCs are years away but the people above the Tomato (because, let's face it, the Tomato only regurgitates the corporate talking points he's fed) say Waymo is bringing an SDC taxi service to Phoenix by years end!

Yet throughout this all the Tomato never strays. He still keeps beating the corporate drum. It's going to be spectacular !

anyone care for an omelette? We can use the egg from Waymo's face....


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> You see, if it was one thing, maybe two things, I'd say ok. But we have MULTIPLE red flags:
> 
> 1. Professional drivers both uber and taxi say the price point to use is at least $1.50 a mile, but the Tomato insists they can make "a killing" at a mere 35 cents
> 2. I say, "how will you account for maintenance, refueling, and even simple car washes?" He says "oh those are trivial things"
> 3. Now we have instances where Google's other Dept, the Pixel phone Dept, is having issues.
> 4. Many people say SDCs are years away but the people above the Tomato (because, let's face it, the Tomato only regurgitates the corporate talking points he's fed) say Waymo is bringing an SDC taxi service to Phoenix by years end!
> 
> Yet throughout this all the Tomato never strays. He still keeps beating the corporate drum. It's going to be spectacular !
> 
> anyone care for an omelette? We can use the egg from Waymo's face....


With pool the cost is as low as 10 cents per mile. This is the pool car:
https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/G...utoblog.com/media/2011/09/six-door-raptor.jpg

6 doors, 6 separate compartments. Divided like a limo is divided between the driver and the back seat, but also divided down the middle. Your compartment is sound proof and no one can see in. It's like being in your living room. Your car shows up, you get in your private room, oblivious to anything happening outside your cocoon. You watch tv, sleep, work, surf the net as you call Tomato a clown and a troll, until a voice comes on saying, arriving in 2 minutes.

This is your pool experience:
http://www.beckerautodesign.com/esv/quote/checklist-esv/3.jpg

Your commute went from 2 hrs behind the wheel in stop and go traffic to a 20 minute snap because you helped eliminate traffic by taking 8 cars off the road.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> With pool the cost is as low as 10 cents per mile. This is the pool car:
> https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/G...utoblog.com/media/2011/09/six-door-raptor.jpg
> 
> 6 doors, 6 separate compartments. Divided like a limo is divided between the driver and the back seat, but also divided down the middle. Your compartment is sound proof and no one can see in. It's like being in your living room. Your car shows up, you get in your private room, oblivious to anything happening outside your cocoon. You watch tv, sleep, work, surf the net as you call Tomato a clown and a troll, until a voice comes on saying, arriving in 2 minutes.
> 
> This is your pool experience:
> http://www.beckerautodesign.com/esv/quote/checklist-esv/3.jpg
> 
> Your commute went from 2 hrs behind the wheel in stop and go traffic to a 20 minute snap because you helped eliminate traffic by taking 8 cars off the road.


Hey folks, doesn't this sound exactly like the kind of corporate talking points the PR firms get sent inside bright, shiny folders?

Oh, Tomato... Google has a history of failed projects and Waymo is about to be the next casualty.

There is NOTHING tangible to give any consumer confidence in the success of Waymo except your boastful proclaimations.

Oh hey, BTW, that huge vehicle, carrying that much weight, looks like it gets about 15 miles per gallon..LOL


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Hey folks, doesn't this sound exactly like the kind of corporate talking points the PR firms get sent inside bright, shiny folders?
> 
> Oh, Tomato... Google has a history of failed projects and Waymo is about to be the next casualty.
> 
> There is NOTHING tangible to give any consumer confidence in the success of Waymo except your boastful proclaimations.
> 
> Oh hey, BTW, that huge vehicle, carrying that much weight, looks like it gets about 15 miles per gallon..LOL


And? You're carrying 5 people with your Toyota Corolla. Instead of Waymo grossing 35 cents per mile they're grossing $1.20 per mile. Math is fun, huh?


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> And? You're carrying 5 people with your Toyota Corolla. Instead of Waymo grossing 35 cents per mile they're grossing $1.20 per mile. Math is fun, huh?


Greg I am so tired of your posts


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Greg I am so tired of your posts


Nancy, no you're not.


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Nancy, no you're not.


There's a guy named Greg Rogers who does what you do, and is about the age I thought you were (27, I guessed 26), and fits the profile you exude. (Very little experience, mostly internships and blogging post graduation, studied at UC Berkeley). This guy Greg, I found out, works for a think tank called the Eno Center for Transportation in DC, and he was once upon a time an uber driver for 5 months and did a whopping 450 rides (yeah baby!). All of this sounds exactly what the Tomato has said he is and does. Oh and don't forget he also invented the "No Thanks" button.

If that is not you then you will say it's not you

If that really is you then you will still say it's not you

But... if it is you, hold it in your heart that I found out who you are.


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> There's a guy named Greg Rogers who does what you do, and is about the age I thought you were (27, I guessed 26), and fits the profile you exude. (Very little experience, mostly internships and blogging post graduation, studied at UC Berkeley). This guy Greg, I found out, works for a think tank called the Eno Center for Transportation in DC, and he was once upon a time an uber driver for 5 months and did a whopping 450 rides (yeah baby!). All of this sounds exactly what the Tomato has said he is and does. Oh and don't forget he also invented the "No Thanks" button.
> 
> If that is not you then you will say it's not you
> 
> If that really is you then you will still say it's not you
> 
> But... if it is you, hold it in your heart that I found out who you are.


I used to date a girl named Nancy. She used to ramble on about nonsense as well. I had to slap her around too. Nancy is this you? I told you, It's over!


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> I used to date a girl named Nancy. She used to ramble on about nonsense as well. I had to slap her around too. Nancy is this you? I told you, It's over!


Hey Greg if I ever come to D.C. you wanna get lunch? No hard feelings

Also, BTW, all kidding aside, Domestic violence is not a laughing matter


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Hey Greg if I ever come to D.C. you wanna get lunch? No hard feelings
> 
> Also, BTW, all kidding aside, Domestic violence is not a laughing matter


If you spent half as much time educating yourself on what's about to happen, instead of creating fake personas, you'd look a lot less ridiculous when Waymo launches in Phoenix.


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> If you spent half as much time educating yourself on what's about to happen, instead of creating fake personas, you'd look a lot less ridiculous when Waymo launches in Phoenix.


If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times:

Will SDCs become a thing sometime? Yes

Will they become a thing very quickly? No way

They won't even become a thing very quickly in the first and only market.

Btw, can I borrow that tie?


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## heynow321

Lookin sharp kiddo


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> You see, if it was one thing, maybe two things, I'd say ok. But we have MULTIPLE red flags:
> 
> 1. Professional drivers both uber and taxi say the price point to use is at least $1.50 a mile, but the Tomato insists they can make "a killing" at a mere 35 cents
> 2. I say, "how will you account for maintenance, refueling, and even simple car washes?" He says "oh those are trivial things"
> 3. Now we have instances where Google's other Dept, the Pixel phone Dept, is having issues.
> 4. Many people say SDCs are years away but the people above the Tomato (because, let's face it, the Tomato only regurgitates the corporate talking points he's fed) say Waymo is bringing an SDC taxi service to Phoenix by years end!
> 
> Yet throughout this all the Tomato never strays. He still keeps beating the corporate drum. It's going to be spectacular !
> 
> anyone care for an omelette? We can use the egg from Waymo's face....


You had the jalapeño omelette, right?


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> You had the jalapeño omelette, right?


Greg, how many times do I have to tell you?

All the articles, quotes, data research, videos, etc that you can show me now mean nothing compared to what actually happens in the real world after it launches.

I've maintained that when it does launch, for a ton of reasons that I've already stated, bottom line: if they roll it out how you say you are going to, it will fail.

Now, I cannot convince you. We will just have to wait for it to unfold.

So Greg, please don't try to "sell" me on this anymore. I wanna see the proof in the pudding.

Thanks


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Greg, how many times do I have to tell you?
> 
> All the articles, quotes, data research, videos, etc that you can show me now mean nothing compared to what actually happens in the real world after it launches.
> 
> I've maintained that when it does launch, for a ton of reasons that I've already stated, bottom line: if they roll it out how you say you are going to, it will fail.
> 
> Now, I cannot convince you. We will just have to wait for it to unfold.
> 
> So Greg, please don't try to "sell" me on this anymore. I wanna see the proof in the pudding.
> 
> Thanks


"Who are you going to believe, your lying eyes or us "UP community" geniuses with thousands of years of business experience?"


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> "Who are you going to believe, your lying eyes or us "UP community" geniuses with thousands of years of business experience?"


With all due respect Greg, it's very hard to take your predictions seriously because they sound like so much corporate propaganda.

So, and I'm sure you can understand, I'll just wait to see if this Waymo SDC rideshare business will or will not be successful for real rather than take your word for it. (No offense).


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> With all due respect Greg, it's very hard to take your predictions seriously because they sound like so much corporate propaganda.
> 
> So, and I'm sure you can understand, I'll just wait to see if it does or does not happen for real rather than take your word for it. (No offense).


Go back to bed, Nancy.


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Go back to bed, Nancy.


It's only 10:30 here in cali. It's 1:30am where you are bro! What are you binge watching Stranger Things?


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## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> It's only 10:30 here in cali. It's 1:30am where you are bro! What are you binge watching Stranger Things?


yeah, 10:30. That's why I said go back to bed.


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> yeah, 10:30. That's why I said go back to bed.


I don't get the joke.

I'm a full time uber driver. It's not uncommon to be awake at 10:30 on a Tuesday night.

I appreciate your attempt at humor but maybe take another comedy class


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