# I'll never buy an electric car



## ColumbusRides (Nov 10, 2018)

Some manufacturers seem to be pushing the whole entire EV thing but I'll never get on board. I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ColumbusRides said:


> Some manufacturers seem to be pushing the whole entire EV thing but I'll never get on board. I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


CHEAPER TO MAKE.
GOVERNMENT MANDATES ON FUEL ECONOMY.

AGENDA 21

WAIT TILL YOU SEE WHAT YOUR FUTURE ELECTRIC BILL LOOKS LIKE !


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

ColumbusRides said:


> Some manufacturers seem to be pushing the whole entire EV thing but I'll never get on board. I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


Tony Dreyfuss, a driver with Green Cab of Madison, Wisconsin takes a selfie between a group of Teslas on display Wednesday at Breese Stevens Field. Green Cab plans to have 20 of the battery-powered cars on the road next week and convert its entire fleet to Teslas by early 2020.








https://madison.com/wsj/business/ma...cle_e2fcf41a-de92-5385-87fa-aa8114d844ce.html
https://electrek.co/2019/12/23/tesla-large-orde-taxi-company-germany/Tesla scores large order from taxi company in Germany

https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/...ectric-ride-sharing-experience-563199721.html


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> Tony Dreyfuss, a driver with Green Cab of Madison, takes a selfie between a group of Teslas on display Wednesday at Breese Stevens Field. Green Cab plans to have 20 of the battery-powered cars on the road next week and convert its entire fleet to Teslas by early 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They can dump depleted batteries in the Ocean

Just like Depleted Uranium !

( kind of like FUKUSHIMA ! NUCLEAR " CLEAN POWER" !)


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

ColumbusRides said:


> Some manufacturers seem to be pushing the whole entire EV thing but I'll never get on board. I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


The percentage of cars that are electric will continue to increase. Look to the next big surge in gas prices.

Also with the popularity of Tesla, other manufacturers have taken notice and they don't want to be left behind if it takes off, so they're going to try to keep ahead of them


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Long term electric cars will prevail as commuter cars because of cost to operate. We are not there yet.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> CHEAPER TO MAKE.
> GOVERNMENT MANDATES ON FUEL ECONOMY.
> 
> AGENDA 21
> ...


Exactly, the net effect of electric cars will be rolling brownouts in populous cities.

Progress, baby!


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> Tony Dreyfuss, a driver with Green Cab of Madison, Wisconsin takes a selfie between a group of Teslas on display Wednesday at Breese Stevens Field. Green Cab plans to have 20 of the battery-powered cars on the road next week and convert its entire fleet to Teslas by early 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











The original "green" vehicle.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

RideshareUSA said:


> View attachment 397125
> 
> The original "green" vehicle.


Oh i dont Know about That.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Never is a long time, speak on it about the time solid state batteries come out or their 2nd generation version.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Never is a long time, speak on it about the time solid state batteries come out or their 2nd generation version.


I want an electric motorcycle.
Too expensive.
Not enough range yet.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> I want an electric motorcycle.
> Too expensive.
> Not enough range yet.


Let the rich early adaptors buy it now. In a decade maybe two we buy the affordable and vastly technologically superior version.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> Tony Dreyfuss, a driver with Green Cab of Madison, Wisconsin takes a selfie between a group of Teslas on display Wednesday at Breese Stevens Field. Green Cab plans to have 20 of the battery-powered cars on the road next week and convert its entire fleet to Teslas by early 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I drive in Madison and I see Green Cabs all over the place. They are well known for speeding. These Teslas can't possibly be cost effective in the short term unless Zerology is giving Green Cab a major deal/subsidy.


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## 125928 (Oct 5, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> CHEAPER TO MAKE.
> GOVERNMENT MANDATES ON FUEL ECONOMY.
> 
> AGENDA 21
> ...


It would make sense for people with electric cars to install solar panels, I know I would.


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

Electric cars will dominate. The biggest pain in the ass for car markers globally is union labor and electric is much much simpler to build. One third the workforce, one quarter the specialized skill sets and you just give up a lot of booze, coke, and OT


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## Athos (Mar 15, 2017)

ColumbusRides said:


> Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


If the automakers don't start to switch they will be dead within the decade. When solid state batteries launch it will signal the end of the internal combustion car. I have an EV. It is far and away a superior car.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

ColumbusRides said:


> Some manufacturers seem to be pushing the whole entire EV thing but I'll never get on board. I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


Well i understand it feom the whole global warming part. Bit here is the deal...

Private jets are not electric yet!!!!!!!

Those are the ones that cause way more polution in the air, while the rich people use them willingly almost everyday in alot of cases. I live mext to Chicagos executive airport. Only private flights are allowed. Nothing commercial. Planes flying all day over my place i live, so i see the traffic flow for the rich.

Another thing i have heard of a horrible story about one od them getting rear ended on the highway shoulder broken down. Drunk dude was doing well over 100mph and hit them, the car had so much impact, it caused the electric car to explode in flames from the batteries inside killing the young lady on her 21st birthday nightout. Her BF was also a pax next to her, but couldnt get her out because the fire was so hot.

Guess how the drunk driver got home after running away(he killed his passenger also)?

Give ya one guess at it!!!!!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

They have the Kia pure electric and one of the Teslas that have a three hundred mile range. That figure, of course, assumes daylight driving, no air condition, no rain, no stereo. For this market, you would need something with a four hundred mile range. This would allow for air condition full time in the summer. We get these heat showers here. You need air condition to keep the fog off the windows, lights for the cloudburst and wipers. This will sap the electric fast. If they had a four hundred mile range, you could run one full time.

They are almost there. The Kia is affordable. I do not know about the quality.



tohunt4me said:


> I want an electric motorcycle.


You are almost there:


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Kias if you run over a speed bump accidently, well you have broken strutts and shocks now! Good luck with that company and its high rated assembly, also performance.

Dont you dare get in any accident in it. Its basically automatically totaled. From you just driving off the lot with the thing.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

WindyCityAnt said:


> Kias if you run over a speed bump accidently, well you have broken strutts and shocks now! Dont you dare get in any accident in it. Its basically automatically totaled. From you just driving off the lot with the thing.


I do not disbelieve you, to look at those things, at least. I guess if you hit a tyre-buster pothole, you are REALLY dry reamed. The purchase price is far more affordable than that of a Tesla.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

I had a pax one time try and sell me his old tesla for 25$ on 30k miles. Because it was “old” 3 years old and got a new one. You can purchase these cars like that he explained. So i went looking around as curious as i am. Turns out it is true. The owners trying to flee from them now. The cost is not worth it still.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

if your social credit score is too low, the cars or the chargers will not work.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Gas is old. Everyone knows. Even Gas companies...like shell. Cmon old man:smiles: Get with what is changing, just because people make money at a toxin that destroys our future, does not mean companies aren't ready to do what is right. Once old white men die off, we will have a future..and yeah I am one of those "older" white men. Stupid we are. 
https://www.shell.us/business-custo...e=L2Zvcm1zL2VuX3VzX3NoZWxsX3JlY2hhcmdlX3BsdXM


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

I'm not going to say never, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a long while before I park my own electric vehicle on my driveway.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

All you need is Uber to mandate you buy electric.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

TomTheAnt said:


> I'm not going to say never, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a long while before I park my own electric vehicle on my driveway.


If Al Gore won you would be electric already....2020 is too late.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Most people live in apartments and cities where chargers are impractical/impossible. Imagine an apartment complex with a charger for every car. Yeah right!

(What if someone unplugs your car and you are on your way to work and realize you don't have a charge? Shit!)

Now I think you realize that electric cars will not take over for a very long time.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Most people live in apartments and cities where chargers are impractical/impossible. Imagine an apartment complex with a charger for every car. Yeah right!
> 
> (What if someone unplugs your car and you are on your way to work and realize you don't have a charge? Shit!)
> 
> Now I think you realize that electric cars will not take over for a very long time.


It's only impractical because we make it impractical...we have zero issues with power lines...you are saying it's far fetched to have a hook up per parking space? Jesus...nobody cares about things that benefit us all. I don't believe this is even a thought of a concern vs what we are putting in air..but shouldn't be surprised. What seems impractical to certain people is pretty normal to the new practical like EV chargers in parking spots that already exist...


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

now cali limits the amount of chargers you can have because the power grid is too weak.


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## Athos (Mar 15, 2017)

Jay Dean said:


> Gas is old. Everyone knows. Even Gas companies...like shell. Cmon old man:smiles: Get with what is changing, just because people make money at a toxin that destroys our future, does not mean companies aren't ready to do what is right. Once old white men die off, we will have a future..and yeah I am one of those "older" white men. Stupid we are.
> https://www.shell.us/business-custo...e=L2Zvcm1zL2VuX3VzX3NoZWxsX3JlY2hhcmdlX3BsdXM


Right. Those Old White Men give us other Old White Men a bad name! We are not all that stupid! I have a Nissan Leaf but can't use it for Uber because it's old and doesn't have the range I need. I would switch out my Prius in a heartbeat if I could afford a Bolt.

Technology is progressing faster than ever with these electrics. I think that charging stations are risky investments because there may soon be electrics that can go huge distances on an overnight charge. It's too bad but maybe the threat of obsolescence is holding back investments in charging infrastructure.

For those who have never driven an electric I will say that once you have tried one you will never go back. They are like a smart phone on wheels. The gas cars are land-line rotary dial! Vroom vroom cough cough.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Loved my electric Kia Soul. If it had the range the new ones do, I might not have traded for a hybrid when I sold the store.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Jay Dean said:


> If Al Gore won you would be electric already....2020 is too late.


Well..., he didn't, so I'll continue burning fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.


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## Athos (Mar 15, 2017)

TomTheAnt said:


> Well..., he didn't, so I'll continue burning fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.


Yes, that's what happens when the fossil fuel industry invest in politicians and propaganda.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Jay Dean said:


> you are saying it's far fetched to have a hook up per parking space?


Actually... It's not necessarily that difficult. It will just cost money, which nobody is willing to pay.

https://insideevs.com/news/332283/f...or-evs-use-existing-block-heater-poles-video/


Athos said:


> Yes, that's what happens when the fossil fuel industry invest in politicians and propaganda.


Not going to bite on any kind of political stuff. :wink:

I am not against evolution and I think I've said it already even here at UP.net before in other thread/s that EVs are coming and it's good thing so people have options. Current EVs just aren't an option for me and my needs, so I will have to continue old-school until a solution which fits my needs presents itself and then consider it.


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## JaxUberLyft (Jan 9, 2019)

I've given over 4,000 UberLyft rides aboard my Chevy Bolt. I wouldn't do U/L with anything BUT an EV. I recharge mostly at home for just over $0.02 / mile.

EVs are much simpler than ICE cars - no transmission, no exhaust system, no oil to check or change, no timing belt, no emissions components / O2 sensor / check engine light. They are a blast to drive - instant quiet torque, power and speed.

It's the future, hands down. Of course there are and will be plenty of fossil-fueled cars for old fossils to drive for many years to come!

Los Angeles is considering making U/L only operate EVs...expect more of that to come.

The grid will happily cope with extra electricity for charging with some improvements and rate changes here and there. 

EV chargers are actually mush LESS complicated than gas / diesel stations if you consider all the infrastructure needed to safely store and pump gas and Diesel fuel.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Drove this crap ass mid 80s Dodge Datsun for pizza in the early 2000's. That car ran about 35 MPG. Here we are, putting out cars 30+ years later, and if you get 35+ MPG that is amazing! And I sit here scratching my head wondering how the hell, in 30+ years, are we not able to make cars more fuel efficient. Someones getting paid some where to ensure we aren't doing better in this realm.

I'm also sick of the price of standard batteries when I need to buy some! Battery prices only going to continue to sky rocket as we continue to need batteries to power everything we do. Is there even enough material to make the batteries we need to power all the stuff we need to power?


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## JaxUberLyft (Jan 9, 2019)

Was that 80s Datsun light weight and had a manual transmission?

Now everything is automatic and weighed down with safety and emissions gear.

EV battery cost per kWh is down 80-90% in the past 10 years and are expected to continue to drop as production ramps up.

As for your "standard batteries" that cost comes from Energizer Bunny ads - marketing and merchandising.


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## Iloveuberyay (Dec 27, 2017)

Im pretty sure a lot of old timers that rode horses were having this exact same conversation about Henry Ford and the "gas" car.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> Drove this crap ass mid 80s Dodge Datsun for pizza in the early 2000's. That car ran about 35 MPG. Here we are, putting out cars 30+ years later, and if you get 35+ MPG that is amazing! And I sit here scratching my head wondering how the hell, in 30+ years, are we not able to make cars more fuel efficient. Someones getting paid some where to ensure we aren't doing better in this realm.
> 
> I'm also sick of the price of standard batteries when I need to buy some! Battery prices only going to continue to sky rocket as we continue to need batteries to power everything we do. Is there even enough material to make the batteries we need to power all the stuff we need to power?


I think my Dad drove it's predecessor back in the late 80s. Total rustbucket, but cheap on diesel when diesel was cheap. Guessing it was from the 70s.


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## Athos (Mar 15, 2017)

TomTheAnt said:


> Not going to bite on any kind of political stuff. :wink:


The environment shouldn't ever have become a political issue. It was made so by the fossil fuel industry. Regan, Thatcher, Bush I and II had no problem recognizing the danger. It's only lately that the industry has mounted a "full court press" hemming in environmental concerns and funding denial and delay. They have tied the issue to politics and have made it part of the mantra of the tribe. It can't be ignored.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

JaxUberLyft said:


> Was that 80s Datsun light weight and had a manual transmission?
> 
> Now everything is automatic and weighed down with safety and emissions gear.
> 
> ...


Yea, was manual. Still though, I understand cars weigh a lot more now. However I would expect engine tech to advance enough to keep up.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

I thought I would never buy an EV or even a Hybrid/Plug-in Hybrid myself. In 2017 I leased a Mazda 6 but it wasn't until May, 2019 that I decided to drive for Lyft then Uber in August. My MPG dropped from 34MPG to 28MPG in the 10k I did ride shares with the city driving I was doing.

I had to either buy the Mazda 6 or turn it in. I ended up selling it since I got far more than what I owed on the lease and got a super good deal on a 2020 Ford Fusion Hybrid Plug-in lease with 19.5k mile per year. Gas mileage has jumped to a 76MPG average! A EV or Plug-in Hybrid is great... especially for those who live in high-cost gas states.

Because I'm new to the forum yes I am aware of buying used cars... I only drive part time (about 3 days a week and I chase surge/busy times only) to keep myself busy while my wife works on her masters degree. I estimate based on the 6 months I've driven so far that I would maybe do 20k at most per year. I would have a leased car no matter what so this time around I planned for the extra miles and surprising a high mileage lease was not much more than a 10k-12k lease.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I thought I would never buy an EV or even a Hybrid/Plug-in Hybrid myself. In 2017 I leased a Mazda 6 but it wasn't until May, 2019 that I decided to drive for Lyft then Uber in August. My MPG dropped from an 34MPG to 28MPG in the 10k I did ride shares with the city driving I was doing.
> 
> I had to either buy the Mazda 6 or turn it in. I ended up selling it since I got far more than what I owed on the lease and got a super good deal on a 2020 Ford Fusion Hybrid Plug-in lease with 19.5k mile per year. Gas mileage has jumped to a 76MPG average! A EV or Plug-in Hybrid is great... especially for those who high-cost gas states.
> 
> Because I'm new to the forum yes I am aware of buying used cars... I only drive part time (about 3 days a week and I chase surge/busy times only) to keep myself busy while my wife works on her masters degree. I estimate based on the 6 months I've driven so far that I would maybe do 20k at most per year. I would have a leased car no matter what so this time around I planned for the extra miles and surprising a high mileage lease was not much more than a 10k-12k lease.


Welcome aboard. Are you related to any UP members?


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm trying to keep track of my mileage each day. If I HAD somewhere to plug it in at night (I don't, but might soon enough), I would need a vehicle that could go 210-230 miles. If I use all those miles and get home and suddenly need to go somewhere, I'm screwed. If I get up in the morning and it somehow didn't charge right all night (like my cell phone half the time), I'm screwed.

But in a regular gas powered car, I can put more gas in, and done.

There is a Tesla supercharger about 8 minutes from where I live and three more within 20 minutes. But those cost money if you don't have an older model you got when it was still newish. So I don't know what that costs or how long it takes.

Bolt EV is close, but it's a little hatchback. Doubt it would be any good for airport runs.

A PHEV vehicle like a Fusion Energi sounds good to me. Drive it like a normal Hybrid. Plug it in when you can. Win-win.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

occupant said:


> A PHEV vehicle like a Fusion Energi sounds good to me. Drive it like a normal Hybrid. Plug it in when you can. Win-win.


Trunk space on the Energi is laughable. It is so small! I live in college town with a small regional airport but I don't get a lot of rides out of the AP. It wasn't until this past Saturday with all the college students coming home did I get 6 or 7 rides from the AP and a couple of students had bags so big I had to put them in the back seat!

If I was in place that had a huge AP (SFO, LAX) with a lot of AP traffic I may have thought about a different car than the Fusion!

--

@1.5xorbust - Thanks and no I'm not related to any other UP members. With my family and friends I'm the only one that I know of who is doing ride shares.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

occupant said:


> I'm trying to keep track of my mileage each day. If I HAD somewhere to plug it in at night (I don't, but might soon enough), I would need a vehicle that could go 210-230 miles. If I use all those miles and get home and suddenly need to go somewhere, I'm screwed. If I get up in the morning and it somehow didn't charge right all night (like my cell phone half the time), I'm screwed.
> 
> But in a regular gas powered car, I can put more gas in, and done.
> 
> ...


The Fusion Energi wouldn't be a good airport vehicle either. Unfortunately the battery eats a lot of trunk space. Unlike other vehicles that put the battery in the floor boards, the Fusion Energi battery sticks up.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Each EV requires 20-30 lbs of cobalt that is mined using child labor in the Congo. I'll bet most of the greenies dont know that or think its justified because the planet is going kill the human race in 12 years because of mentally challenged hysterical people like Greta Thurnberg spreading climate change propaganda. Too bad for the people of the Congo that have to be placed on this sacrificial altar of stupidity.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/0...-likely-have-small-amounts-of-illegal-cobalt/


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## Athos (Mar 15, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Each EV requires 20-30 lbs of cobalt that is mined using child labor in the Congo. I'll bet most of the greenies dont know that or think its justified because the planet is going kill the human race in 12 years because of mentally challenged hysterical people like Greta Thurnberg spreading climate change propaganda. Too bad for the people of the Congo that have to be placed on this sacrificial altar of stupidity.
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/0...-likely-have-small-amounts-of-illegal-cobalt/


The United States and Canada are just putting the finishing touches on an agreement to co-ordinate on the supply of rare strategic metals like cobalt. In fact, Cobalt, Ontario, Canada, where my mother was born, is getting ready to start smelting cobalt this year.

I am sorry to see you play the "mentally challenged" card against Greta Thunberg. It shows that you are subject to the think tank's talking points. The personal attacks on her have been designed by well funded propagandists. She is doing this herself without any significant financial support.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> They have the Kia pure electric and one of the Teslas that have a three hundred mile range. That figure, of course, assumes daylight driving, no air condition, no rain, no stereo. For this market, you would need something with a four hundred mile range. This would allow for air condition full time in the summer. We get these heat showers here. You need air condition to keep the fog off the windows, lights for the cloudburst and wipers. This will sap the electric fast. If they had a four hundred mile range, you could run one full time.
> 
> They are almost there. The Kia is affordable. I do not know about the quality.
> 
> ...


That's with lithium, solid state will go well beyond 400 miles on a charge. At least that's what we're being told, we will see.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> Well i understand it feom the whole global warming part. Bit here is the deal...
> 
> Private jets are not electric yet!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Nobody can survive a 100 mph impact. Paul Walker was burned in a gasoline vehicle. Mangled wreckage aside.



WindyCityAnt said:


> I had a pax one time try and sell me his old tesla for 25$ on 30k miles. Because it was "old" 3 years old and got a new one. You can purchase these cars like that he explained. So i went looking around as curious as i am. Turns out it is true. The owners trying to flee from them now. The cost is not worth it still.


In SoCal the lowest price I spotted was 34k for 2013 model S with 65k miles.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

LADryver said:


> Nobody can survive a 100 mph impact. Paul Walker was burned in a gasoline vehicle. Mangled wreckage aside.
> 
> 
> In SoCal the lowest price I spotted was 34k for 2013 model S with 65k miles.


The drunk driver survived(ofcource) fled the scene after killing multiple people from a highway!

Guess how he got home that night???

1 guess!!'


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Yeah keep brainwashing millions of kids Greta the next two or three generations of consumers of everything green. Elon Musk and Wall street and the big three love you especially when they realize how much money they'll make from replacing those billions of toxic batteries! They will love you, but the people of the congo will hate you and all your ilk. The environment will hate you when it comes time to dispose of all the toxic chemicals in those billions of batteries!


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Yeah keep brainwashing millions of kids Greta the next two or three generations of consumers of everything green. Elon Musk and Wall street and the big three love you especially when they realize how much money they'll make from replacing those billions of toxic batteries! They will love you, but the people of the congo will hate you and all your ilk. The environment will hate you when it comes time to dispose of all the toxic chemicals in those billions of batteries!


Elon Musk will develop an ecological solution for several good reasons. 1. The guy is an epic genius. 2. All his works have ecological goals. 3. He owns Solar City and can harness solar energy as we speak. 4. He wants to colonize Mars.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Not sure if youre trolling me but if not, here's my response and then I'll leave it at that. Elon musk is going to be responsible for the the deaths of hundreds or thousands of poor African children in slave labor camps mining blood cobalt. History will know him as a megalomaniac on par with Hitler.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Not sure if youre trolling me but if not, here's my response and then I'll leave it at that. Elon musk is going to be responsible for the the deaths of hundreds or thousands of poor African children in slave labor camps mining blood cobalt. History will know him as a megalomaniac on par with Hitler.


From where do you project this? Who is trolling who? 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-musk-cobalt-electric-vehicle-battery-science


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

JaxUberLyft said:


> I've given over 4,000 UberLyft rides aboard my Chevy Bolt. I wouldn't do U/L with anything BUT an EV. I recharge mostly at home for just over $0.02 / mile.


Yeah, but the up front cost of an electric vehicle is very high. Supposing you pay $30,000 for an electric car versus $3000 for a 30 mpg gas car. The difference is $27,000, which is roughly 9000 gallons of gas, which will take you 270,000 miles!


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Yeah, but the up front cost of an electric vehicle is very high. Supposing you pay $30,000 for an electric car versus $3000 for a 30 mpg gas car. The difference is $27,000, which is roughly 9000 gallons of gas, which will take you 270,000 miles!


The difference in maintenance and repair is also very high. I had an electric, one maintenance a year, no matter how many KMs. The biggest item on the maintenance list was software updates. Next biggest was cabin filter replacement.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

VanGuy said:


> The difference in maintenance and repair is also very high. I had an electric, one maintenance a year, no matter how many KMs. The biggest item on the maintenance list was software updates. Next biggest was cabin filter replacement.


Used Bolts can be 17-20k. No emissions is the big thing for someone who likes breathing, quiet engine is great for the human condition. Carpool lane. There are all kinds of costs.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

VanGuy said:


> The difference in maintenance and repair is also very high. I had an electric, one maintenance a year, no matter how many KMs. The biggest item on the maintenance list was software updates. Next biggest was cabin filter replacement.


Maintenance costs for IC engines seems pretty low to me unless you are doing an engine replacement. Not counting tires, brakes, turn signals, tail lights, and windshields, which electric vehicles share, I've replaced about $60 worth of failed engine parts on my car (motor mounts and secondary air intake), maybe $240 for the battery, and spent about $18 every 5000-7500 miles to change out the oil/filter. 50*18=$900 worth of oil and filters... $1200 total including the batteries for like 250,000 miles... not too bad.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Maintenance costs for ICE engines seems pretty low to me unless you are doing an engine replacement. Not counting tires, brakes, turn signals, tail lights, and windshields, which electric vehicles share, I've replaced about $60 worth of failed engine parts on my car, maybe $240 for the battery, and spent about $18 every 5000-7500 miles to change out the oil/filter. 50*18=$900 worth of oil and filters... $1200 total including the batteries for like 250,000 miles... not too bad.


Typically you subtract brakes too as the aggressive regen does most of your braking saving wear on the physical brakes. I typically follow a dealer schedule on maintenance so I spent less with the electric than I do now that I'm on a hybrid which means regular maintenance again. Even the hybrid uses the brakes far less and the oil changes are every 10K miles/16K KM.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

ColumbusRides said:


> I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


^^^^Comedy hour.

Most people who "SHAKE FIST AT CLOUD" in regards to EV options have never driven one, or even ever driven IN one. I hope this is not the case for you, but IF it is, congrats on your ignorance.

I've owned Electric Cars for 6 years now. For a while it was my second vehicle (a 2012 Nissan Leaf, bought cheaply off a lease), but we were so happy with the experience, and almost all of the concerns ended up being myths/falsehoods. We're still driving that LEAF, and it's battery is fine, after 8 years. I've never been stranded at the side of the road.

We bought a VOLT, which is an EV if you never outdrive its battery range, but has a back-up gas generator if you do. I have been in an accident (Was rear-ended pretty bad in the city, without issue to the electrical components or battery. They repaired the car, and I was on my merry way, Uber/Lyft driving again.

Cost savings (Fuel and Maintenence, particularly doing UBER/LYFT) are MASSIVE. Electricity in Canada is 80%+ cheaper to go equivalent distance than Gasoline.
Ride quality (comfort/quiet): AMAZING.

If I could find a cheap used one, I'd upgrade my LEAF to a BOLT, which I consider the ultimate ride-hail vehicle. But the LEAF is a maintenence free TANK of a car, no issues, just hit the button and go.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> ^^^^Comedy hour.
> 
> Most people who "SHAKE FIST AT CLOUD" in regards to EV options have never driven one, or even ever driven IN one. I hope this is not the case for you, but IF it is, congrats on your ignorance.
> 
> ...


Does the Volt have something equivalent to FORM? On my minivan that stands for Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. Basically if you go too far without using the engine much then it'll start burning gas just to get things moving. Gets gas out before it gets stale and heats up the oil so you don't get a moisture buildup.

On one hand it kinda sucks as it brings down mileage but I've only had it happen once, on this last tank, in the 9 months and 25K KM I've had it. On the other hand I'm glad I won't be driving around on stale gas and shitty oil when I need it.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

VanGuy said:


> Does the Volt have something equivalent to FORM? On my minivan that stands for Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. Basically if you go too far without using the engine much then it'll start burning gas just to get things moving. Gets gas out before it gets stale and heats up the oil so you don't get a moisture buildup.
> 
> On one hand it kinda sucks as it brings down mileage but I've only had it happen once, on this last tank, in the 9 months and 25K KM I've had it. On the other hand I'm glad I won't be driving around on stale gas and shitty oil when I need it.


The VOLT has four engineering situations where it will use GAS with the battery not empty.

1) Below -10 degreesC (15F) the gas generator will come on to give extra cabin heat to passengers.
2) You can 'force it to use gasoline' by selecting one of the drive modes that forces the generator on.
3) The gasoline has been in the tank so long (6 months?), that the car will burn it to prevent it from going 'sour' from age.
4) Another drive mode called 'MOUNTAIN' mode (which would be relevant in your case @VanGuy ) if you are doing a lot of driving where driving uphill will be constant, you can keep a 20% reserve in electricity in the battery to give extra power for long up-hill journeys).


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

In my case FORM came on right after my last fill up just after Christmas. At first I was thinking maybe I'd gotten some bad gas as I'd never used that station before but after a few days it stopped so I'm wondering if maybe it thought my oil needed to boil off some moisture.


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## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

ColumbusRides said:


> Some manufacturers seem to be pushing the whole entire EV thing but I'll never get on board. I have zero interest in buying an electric car. Why are car companies trying to pushing EV's down our throat?


Car companies aren't trying to push EV's down your throat. They're responding to market demand. Electric cars are the current technology and somewhat better for the environment. We're going to run out of oil eventually so why not get on board?


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Most people who "SHAKE FIST AT CLOUD" in regards to EV options have never driven one, or even ever driven IN one. I hope this is not the case for you, but IF it is, congrats on your ignorance.


I keep putting the numbers in spreadsheets hoping that I can find an electric vehicle which will net me greater long-term profit than I can make burning thousands of gallons of gasoline, but so far the math just never seems to favor the electric one until we start making assumptions into the unknown, like assuming that the car will last 500,000 miles without being totaled in a car crash or needing new batteries at enormous cost.

One day I hope the cost will go down. Until then, gasoline it is.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> ^^^^Comedy hour.
> 
> Most people who "SHAKE FIST AT CLOUD" in regards to EV options have never driven one, or even ever driven IN one. I hope this is not the case for you, but IF it is, congrats on your ignorance.
> 
> ...


The Chevy volt is not an ev it's technically an hybrid. I drove Tesla model S85 and Nissan Leafs for 8 months in 2015 for Eco Cab in Potlandia Oregon. Admittedly, Teslas are fun technologically advanced cars to drive. I know the cars inside and out and all their pros and cons 1300 hours behind their wheels. I'm opposed to them for various reasons not the least of which is initial investment and ROI. They are currently out of reach for most consumers except for those at the top rung on the socio-economic ladder. They wont ever pencil out for full time ride share use as long as the i/i is high and the l-ion batts are expensive to replace, and oil remains cheap. When Trump gets re-elected (and he will) oil may drop even more. Now that we are energy independent the price of gas will remain stable at the pump for the foseeable future. The car companies are pushing these because of that and, they will make HUGE profits from after the sale costs to the consumer for l-ion replacements in EVs. And, sooner or later the salvage yards will be full of these "rolling environmental clean up sites" these "disposable cars" Does anyone that owns one ask themselves what will these cars be worth at a 100K? 200K?
I know everyone that's an Elon kool aid drinker says the batts will get less expensive but that's not how Wall Street rolls. Remember the cheap office printer and the high priced ink cartridges? And, I know the argument "they will find a batt alternative" Affordably, that technology is way out. And the argument "the cost of the ingredients for l-ion will decrease" Not without even more child slave labor to mine the cobalt in the mean time and no strategy for containment of the biologically hazardous mfg process and discards after they are worn out. The USA/Euoropeans maybe responsibil with this technology but will the 3rd world?


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> The Chevy volt is not an ev it's technically an hybrid. I drove Tesla model S85 and Nissan Leafs for 8 months in 2015 for Eco Cab in Potlandia Oregon. Admittedly, Teslas are fun technologically advanced cars to drive. I know the cars inside and out and all their pros and cons 1300 hours behind their wheels. I'm opposed to them for various reasons not the least of which is initial investment and ROI. They are currently out of reach for most consumers except for those at the top rung on the socio-economic ladder. They wont ever pencil out for full time ride share use as long as the i/i is high and the l-ion batts are expensive to replace, and oil remains cheap. When Trump gets re-elected (and he will) oil may drop even more. Now that we are energy independent the price of gas will remain stable at the pump for the foseeable future. The car companies are pushing these because of that and, they will make HUGE profits from after the sale costs to the consumer for l-ion replacements in EVs. And, sooner or later the salvage yards will be full of these "rolling environmental clean up sites" these "disposable cars" Does anyone that owns one ask themselves what will these cars be worth at a 100K? 200K?
> I know everyone that's an Elon kool aid drinker says the batts will get less expensive but that's not how Wall Street rolls. Remember the cheap office printer and the high priced ink cartridges? And, I know the argument "they will find a batt alternative" Affordably, that technology is way out. And the argument "the cost of the ingredients for l-ion will decrease" Not without even more child slave labor to mine the cobalt in the mean time and no strategy for containment of the biologically hazardous mfg process and discards after they are worn out. The USA/Euoropeans maybe responsibil with this technology but will the 3rd world?


Well, if we are getting 'techincal' then the Chevrolet VOLT is an EREV - i.e. Extended Range Electric Vehicle, as it will run 100% on battery until the battery is dead, then run a gasoline powered generator to pump electricity back into the battery. If you plug the VOLT in prior to the battery running empty, it will not ever use gasoline.)

Conventional hybrids use gasoline to charge the battery, and use the battery to augment the gasoline drive. The VOLT is not that.

The rest of your unformatted (line break free!) spew of 'information' is debatable.
But not worth any effort of my part. It is clear from your language that you've made up you mind about the technology.
Carry on.



Trafficat said:


> I keep putting the numbers in spreadsheets hoping that I can find an electric vehicle which will net me greater long-term profit than I can make burning thousands of gallons of gasoline, but so far the math just never seems to favor the electric one until we start making assumptions into the unknown, like assuming that the car will last 500,000 miles without being totaled in a car crash or needing new batteries at enormous cost.
> 
> One day I hope the cost will go down. Until then, gasoline it is.


I will say that in Canada (where gasoline is 75% more expensive and electricity is about 30% cheaper than the USA state-averages, adjusted for current currency), the case is already here for us. This is probably also true for Europe (although I do not know their electricity rates, they are similar to Canada in terms of USD$5 / gallon of regular gasoline.

Used Nissan Leaf for CAN$20,000 (USD$15,000)
Fuel expenses per year saved relative to gasoline for Nissan Maxima per year (C$2500)
Technically, my LEAF has almost paid for itself just in gas, and I've put well under $1000 in maintence in 6 years (!), which is a lot lower than an ICE car would be.

Chevrolet 2017 VOLT cost (C$48,000 less C$14000 Canadian Rebate = C$36,000 = USD$27,500)
Kilometers in 3 years = 130,000 (80,000miles)
Cost per kilometer in electricity (C$0.01 = total fuel costs of $1300. 
Savings if this were a gas powered Civic 10cents per kilometer including maintenence (C$0.10-0.01 = 0.09 = C$11,000 (USD$8500))

USD$27,000 - 8500 = $18,500 (I'm already at the equivalent priced Honda Civic, and I'm only 3 years into ownership - And VOLT Battery health is at 100%, I'm getting the same real-world range in 2019 as I was in 2016 season by season.)


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Your priorities are messed up my young professor. What we have here is a culture clash based on the socialist brainwashing you received in college and my educational experience based on the streets and the "school of hard knocks"


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Your priorities are messed up my young professor. What we have here is a culture clash based on the socialist brainwashing you received in college and my educational experience based on the streets and the "school of hard knocks"


Good thing we arent debating horses.


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## JaxUberLyft (Jan 9, 2019)

occupant said:


> Bolt EV is close, but it's a little hatchback. Doubt it would be any good for airport runs.


I use mine for airport runs often. I have only had a problem fitting luggage ONE time - 3 international travelers with suitcases as big as themselves...I was a noob, then, should have cancelled and advised them to request an XL. That's one time in ~4500 rides

Couple weeks ago had a guy traveling with a set of golf clubs and two children - no problem - folded down 1/3 of the rear seat for the clubs, both kids in back on the remaining 2/3 of the rear seat - both properly belted, adult (big guy) next to me. Nice long run with a nice fat tip.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

JaxUberLyft said:


> I use mine for airport runs often. I have only had a problem fitting luggage ONE time - 3 international travelers with suitcases as big as themselves...I was a noob, then, should have cancelled and advised them to request an XL. That's one time in ~4500 rides
> 
> Couple weeks ago had a guy traveling with a set of golf clubs and two children - no problem - folded down 1/3 of the rear seat for the clubs, both kids in back on the remaining 2/3 of the rear seat - both properly belted, adult (big guy) next to me. Nice long run with a nice fat tip.


BOLT is a bit like the Tardis, way more room on the inside than appears from the 'blob-ish' outside.



Elmo Burrito said:


> Your priorities are messed up my young professor. What we have here is a culture clash based on the socialist brainwashing you received in college and my educational experience based on the streets and the "school of hard knocks"


While I'm in the socialist utopia of Canada, I will say that where I grew up in the 1980s, it was the rough part of town, and the town, at the time, was the murder capital of Canada (per capita). I've seen some shit. That is probalby why I opted for a STEM College eductation. I'm currently nowhere near where I grew up, and that neighborhood has marginally cleaned itself up in the ensuing 30+ years.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the ACCOUNTING for my fuel/maintenence, and vehicle purchase prices. Math is math, sir.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

_Your right professor. Math is math, and you're math is missing depreciation sir. Why did you conveniently leave that out? Because looks like you don't know Jack about business finance. 
Only fools drive Chevy volts for RS. They are POS that don't retain ANY value and, they weren't selling. They almost had to givem away! That's why chevy quit making them and, why only 2 in 100 drivers here in progessive Potland drive a Volt. Even Obummer did not purchase a chevy volt when he said he would.

If it wasn't for OPM (utopians love to spend til they run out) subsidizing everything green, especially advertising it, the ev, wind/solar industry by and large most likely would be on the ash heap of history by now professor. 
The green industry is the biggest scam on the consumer ever pushed by Wallstreet._


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> _Your right professor. Math is math, and you're math is missing depreciation sir. Why did you conveniently leave that out? Because looks like you don't know Jack about business finance.
> Only fools drive Chevy volts for RS. They are POS that don't retain ANY value and, they weren't selling. They almost had to givem away! That's why chevy quit making them and, why only 2 in 100 drivers here in progessive Potland drive a Volt. Even Obummer did not purchase a chevy volt when he said he would.
> 
> If it wasn't for OPM (utopians love to spend til they run out) subsidizing everything green, especially advertising it, the ev, wind/solar industry by and large most likely would be on the ash heap of history by now professor.
> The green industry is the biggest scam on the consumer ever pushed by Wallstreet._


Depreciation is a NON-ISSUE for someone who drives all their cars to the end of their functional life (more or less). I don't resell my cars in any meaningful way.
Have a nice day sir. We're done. I'd say the oil industry is a bigger scam, but there is zero point debating a zealot. I'm sure we both agree on that. Byeeeeeeeeee.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

The Bolt was first but I hear there are more now. The new Soul EV with extended range got delayed until 2021 but I've seen a couple reviews saying the Kia Niro beats the Bolt now.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

EV cars get inflated in price because the government is paying a chunk of the car's first sales price. Out the door with this plus typical promotions and discounts, they are priced like the msrp of a Nissan Altima. Then, year after year, they lose just 10k of that price on resale. When a family passes cars along or just keeps them, there is no resale consideration. Chevrolet sells new Volts and Bolts. They are misunderstood technology. I have spoken to many owners who loved their Volts prior to the Bolt but they did not know the function of their gas usage. I would have purchased one if it had been correctly explained.


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## JaxUberLyft (Jan 9, 2019)

Though some EVs are subsidized in some states / and or by the feds, the primary reason they are so expensive remains battery costs. While the price per kWh has steadily fallen, it is still too high for EVs to achieve price parity with ICE cars.

Depending on who you ask, batteries cost $100 - $200 per kWh. A small car with 200+ mile range needs 50-60 kWh, so the math is still pretty ugly, and explains why larger EVs are not available. A truck with enough battery to tow a boat a reasonable distance will need 150+ kWh.

When batteries drop below $50 / kWh and become a bit lighter and longer lasting, it'll be game over for gassers.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

JaxUberLyft said:


> Though some EVs are subsidized in some states / and or by the feds, the primary reason they are so expensive remains battery costs. While the price per kWh has steadily fallen, it is still too high for EVs to achieve price parity with ICE cars.
> 
> Depending on who you ask, batteries cost $100 - $200 per kWh. A small car with 200+ mile range needs 50-60 kWh, so the math is still pretty ugly, and explains why larger EVs are not available. A truck with enough battery to tow a boat a reasonable distance will need 150+ kWh.
> 
> When batteries drop below $50 / kWh and become a bit lighter and longer lasting, it'll be game over for gassers.


Should I give you their phone number? They obviously have not spoken to you.
https://www.proterra.com/
Them too, how ignorant they are!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...rivian-r1t-amazon-ford-electric-truck-2019-11
What ever will they do?

Other nay-said bygone technologies: Silent films, Horse-drawn carriages, indoor candlelight.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

If I had space, and enough cash to live and go back to school, I'd love to Frankenstein some totaled vehicles from the scrap yard. My current desire would be a F-150 with 2 Tesla 120 batteries and their performance drive package.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

A solid debunking article of most of the eco-myths of EVs

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/1...eates-more-pollution-than-a-conventional-car/


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> A solid debunking article of most of the eco-myths of EVs
> 
> https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/1...eates-more-pollution-than-a-conventional-car/


I work in the parking industry. I am surrounded by fumes of ICE cars and other vehicles. Soot outside or inside regardless adds up in my environment, so the advent of EV cars is increasingly welcome. in addition the noise is nearly nil with these vehicles. For those who know the effects of discarded motor oil, the clear absence of it is welcome too.


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## Athos (Mar 15, 2017)

I understand that the Oil Industry publishes doubting, delaying and denial misinformation about EVs but I don't understand why people are so susceptible to it. I suppose that people are very busy and don't have time to disentangle the spin and the denial industry uses that to confuse. Sometimes they use amoral rent-a-scientists and sometimes they hire contrarian professors.

One professor I have an issue with is Bjorn Lomborg, a charming Danish writer of contrarian opinions. I guess it gets him work. He has been extensively debunked but survives with the support of the monied deniers. For example, he claims that EVs pollute because the carbon emissions for generating the electricity is merely relocated to the power plant and that it is still carbon going into the atmosphere. This is misleading to the point of being false. Yes, some jurisdictions use almost all fossil fuel but most use a mix. Here in Ontario, Canada, for example, our hybrid electricity grid is only about 4% fossil fuel and that fuel is natural gas. I plug my Nissan Leaf in at night when they turn down the gas and my car is effectively nuclear powered!

As the article above states, even if the generating stations are primarily powered by fossil fuel, the efficiencies of combustion are much better than an IC engine. Lomborg is not honestly wrong: he is misleading. That's worse.

There are quite a few debunks of Lomborg. I don't want to bore people because they are long but here are two. Pick one. I like the first one. Potholer54 is hilarious if you are sciency.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/9wz503


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## UberLyfterNumber1 (Jan 8, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> CHEAPER TO MAKE.
> GOVERNMENT MANDATES ON FUEL ECONOMY.
> 
> AGENDA 21
> ...


Electric Cars? Cheaper To Make?
Might want to double-check your figures.
Electric Cars are hugely more expensive to make


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

UberLyfterNumber1 said:


> Electric Cars? Cheaper To Make?
> Might want to double-check your figures.
> Electric Cars are hugely more expensive to make


Elon Musk and many others are working feverishly to reduce the costs. Reduction of costs is inevitable in the evolution of the technology and it's growing demand.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

If electric cars end up costing the same to make as gas cars, and they are 3x as reliable, that would be a devastating blow to the American economy.

Its like Elon Musk hasn't thought through the long term implications. Everyone will have an electric car, and no one will need to upgrade. They will all have to close their doors. And all those workers will be on the dole. Only jobs will be picking crops and elder care wiping asses.


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## JaxUberLyft (Jan 9, 2019)

Why would it be a "devastating blow to the American economy" if all our cars cost less to operate and maintain? I recharge my Chevy Bolt at home for just over $0.02 / mile, and it has no transmission, exhaust system, timing, emissions gear, valve train, etc. It should never need brake work since electric motor handles 98% of the braking.

Sure - every technological innovation since the printing press has increased productivity but also put people out of work - those poor monks who used to copy manuscripts by candlelight - unemployed by the printing press...was that a bad thing?

All the folk who made their living servicing horses - feed, tack, shoes, manure...all those jobs are gone. Highway toll takers, electricity meter readers, full service gas station attendants...all those were crap jobs anyway.

Robots will eventually cook fast food burgers, pick crops, shingle roofs, tile floors, mow lawns...you name it - all manner of mind-numbing repetitive motion jobs will soon be eliminated by automation...deal with it!


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

father of unicorns said:


> It would make sense for people with electric cars to install solar panels, I know I would.


Solar panels are toooo slow they would only add about 3% range to an existing Tesla Model S. And that is based on full 8 hours of solid sun which is damn near impossible anywhere. That's why u don't see cars with them now.... The Prius 5 offers one as an upgrade, but uses it for comfort control like heat venting the car in hot sun not enough voltage or amperage to use for driving...

But I understand where the idea came from.... Will take Much more efficient panels to be useful.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

OldBay said:


> If electric cars end up costing the same to make as gas cars, and they are 3x as reliable, that would be a devastating blow to the American economy.
> 
> Its like Elon Musk hasn't thought through the long term implications. Everyone will have an electric car, and no one will need to upgrade. They will all have to close their doors. And all those workers will be on the dole. Only jobs will be picking crops and elder care wiping asses.


The whole concept of Musk not having thought through is incorrect. There will always be upgrades. You upgrade your magical over-air sound and media device, dont you? New industries and new factories will absorb changes. The only ones who would be marginalized will be those who can not adapt, or who have not found their place yet. Economies are flexible things.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberLyfterNumber1 said:


> Electric Cars? Cheaper To Make?
> Might want to double-check your figures.
> Electric Cars are hugely more expensive to make


BATTERIES APRE EXPENSIVE.

ELECTRIC CARS & MOTORS ARE NOT.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

JaxUberLyft said:


> Though some EVs are subsidized in some states / and or by the feds, the primary reason they are so expensive remains battery costs.


That's right. From Sandy Munro...


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

OldBay said:


> If electric cars end up costing the same to make as gas cars, and they are 3x as reliable, that would be a devastating blow to the American economy.
> 
> Its like Elon Musk hasn't thought through the long term implications. Everyone will have an electric car, and no one will need to upgrade. They will all have to close their doors. And all those workers will be on the dole. Only jobs will be picking crops and elder care wiping asses.


I'm willing to throw the US Economy under the bus if they keep doubling down on Coal, Fracking, and the oil industry. If America wants to play dinosaur about such things, please die already, and let the rest of us move towards a clean energy future. The Republican party has it all backwards, the transition to electricity, and clean energy, is all about energy independence from the middle east. I know they have achieved this recently with poisonous chemical fracking all over the country releasing shale oil, but seriously, USA, you can do a hell of a lot better than ****ing up your ground water supply.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> That's right. From Sandy Munro...
> 
> View attachment 404992


The first telephones, the first electrical houses, the first horseless carriages, the first refrigerators, and so on were very expensive.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Near future?

They don’t have the range needed to be a taxi, but as a daily commuter it’s where it needs to be.

Long term?

It will get the range needed.


Power?

Fast enough

Downside?

None that I can find...


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Don't look now, but.........

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-accord-idUSKBN1ZX2RY


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

LADryver said:


> Don't look now, but.........
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-accord-idUSKBN1ZX2RY


Not soon enough.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> Not soon enough.


I feel certain that the "ban" will be an administrative rubber stamp on reality at that time.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

LADryver said:


> I feel certain that the "ban" will be an administrative rubber stamp on reality at that time.


You are probably right. I've been driving EV for 6 years now. I wish the rest of the world would get on with it.


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## Nerka (Jul 7, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Not sure if youre trolling me but if not, here's my response and then I'll leave it at that. Elon musk is going to be responsible for the the deaths of hundreds or thousands of poor African children in slave labor camps mining blood cobalt. History will know him as a megalomaniac on par with Hitler.


Well, it is far more complex than throwing out the latest propaganda: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/child-miners-electric-cars-work/


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

They can make 20 hybrid batteries for the same price as one ev battery.

If a hybrid reduces emissions by 50% and EV reduces it by 75%, it is more advantageous to build hybrids than evs.

Hybrid tech can be applied to every car. Evs are just too expensive to manufacture. It's a pipe dream.


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