# Article "The distorted economics of ride hailing must be fixed by California law"



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion...ust-be-14015889.php?__twitter_impression=true


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Yes. California will definitely try to 'fix' a capitalistic company.
We will do this by establishing a Department of Ride Share (DRS).
The DRS will be staffed by 5000 mid level managers and headed by a DRS Czar. His name is Travis Klasinack or something. 
It will be paid for by a tax on what you make; oh, to start lets say 10%.

Cali just increased gas taxes 5 cents per gallon. Prices went up - people got used to them. Prices go down - that money belongs to the state. You never notice because the price of gas still went down a few cents.


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## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

Everything in California costs double what it costs in most of the country, Taxes are insane, and the state is broke...sure they can fix a company..


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Yes. California will definitely try to 'fix' a capitalistic company.
> We will do this by establishing a Department of Ride Share (DRS).
> The DRS will be staffed by 5000 mid level managers and headed by a DRS Czar. His name is Travis Klasinack or something.
> It will be paid for by a tax on what you make; oh, to start lets say 10%.
> ...


I don't want to be an Uber employee and I expect getting Cali politicians involved in the process will only make things worse for drivers.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> Yes. California will definitely try to 'fix' a capitalistic company.
> We will do this by establishing a Department of Ride Share (DRS).
> The DRS will be staffed by 5000 mid level managers and headed by a DRS Czar. His name is Travis Klasinack or something.
> It will be paid for by a tax on what you make; oh, to start lets say 10%.
> ...


I'm a lifelong conservative and retired from banking industry after 40+years, voted since Reagan and never for a single Democrat. Lived in 4 countries and first hand experience with the stupidity of socialism. 
Having said this I can assure you I'm most qualified to talk about capitalism and its amazing qualities. However, Uber's an abhorrent extreme far from resembling a capitalist company. It's a distorted form of cultural entitlement focused on the exploitation of labor and elude all basic regulatory obstacles to achieve transfer of wealth from bottom up. 
Please don't compare uber to capitalism.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

RodB said:


> Everything in California costs double what it costs in most of the country, Taxes are insane, and the state is broke...sure they can fix a company..


ATM California is not broke. Gov. Moonbeam inherited a 26 billion dollar deficit from the Terminator.

There is currently a 14 billion dollar rainy day fund and another 14 billion in surplus.

As far as taxes being insane....

Yeah.

That's why there is a surplus.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

While I don't agree with drivers as employees, I see AB5 as "the straw that broke the camel's back" for uber, which is only to blamed for this bill. 
If AB5 passes it will become a model for many other states and eventually Fed intervention. 
Uber has crossed too many lines as well as gig companies proliferating Permatemp labor force. 
Most people cannot comprehend the extreme detrimental effects of Permatemp labor on future of society.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

No Prisoners said:


> I'm a lifelong conservative and retired from banking industry after 40+years, voted since Reagan and never for a single Democrat. Lived in 4 countries and first hand experience with the stupidity of socialism.
> Having said this I can assure you I'm most qualified to talk about capitalism and its amazing qualities. However, Uber's an abhorrent extreme far from resembling a capitalist company. It's a distorted form of cultural entitlement focused on the exploitation of labor and elude all basic regulatory obstacles to achieve transfer of wealth from bottom up.
> Please don't compare uber to capitalism.


Uber (and many other present day companies) are part of a group of companies that have taken advantage of cheap, easy money like 401Ks to grow without check.

Uber would never have been viable if it didn't have access to easy capital and had to grow on self produced income like all other businesses before it.

Never , ever.

Ubers access to capital has finally been limited.

Time to sink or swim.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

observer said:


> Uber (and many other present day companies) are part of a group of companies that have taken advantage of cheap, easy money like 401Ks to grow without check.
> 
> Uber would never have been viable if it didn't have access to easy capital and had to grow on self produced income like all other businesses before it.
> 
> ...


Uber lyft business model inherently flawed and insiders know they can't never be profitable. Impossible to generate additional capital which subsidized their operations up until IPO. They now have to squeeze every once out of drivers as they try to raise fares. However, management realizes that raising fares slows growth, in fact Uber's growth has been receding as losses increasing.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

No Prisoners said:


> Uber lyft business model inherently flawed and insiders know they can't never be profitable. Impossible to generate additional capital which subsidized their operations up until IPO. They now have to squeeze every once out of drivers as they try to raise fares. However, management realizes that raising fares slows growth, in fact Uber's growth has been receding as losses increasing.


They are going to have to slow growth and or get rid of markets, there is no other way.

Ola and Didi and Taxify/Bolt and all those other startup competitors are kicking Ubers butt in other countries. Uber is way overextended.

Lyft is smarter. They are growing slower and methodically. No food delivery, no freight. More pax centric. More like a traditional company.

Uber is like someone with a shotgun versus Lyft who is a sharpshooter.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

No Prisoners said:


> I'm a lifelong conservative and retired from banking industry after 40+years, voted since Reagan and never for a single Democrat. Lived in 4 countries and first hand experience with the stupidity of socialism.
> Having said this I can assure you I'm most qualified to talk about capitalism and its amazing qualities. However, Uber's an abhorrent extreme far from resembling a capitalist company. It's a distorted form of cultural entitlement focused on the exploitation of labor and elude all basic regulatory obstacles to achieve transfer of wealth from bottom up.
> Please don't compare uber to capitalism.


It kind of left a bad taste in my mouth to compare Uber to capitalism, but I did it. Yes I did.
Why?
Because Uber is a prime example of what is WRONG with PURE capitalism.
Pure ANYTHING is not good.
Captialism needs to be buffered with a bit of socialism.
We need to take care of the weaker amongst us, we need social programs.

My complaint is that the socialists among us will not allow free market capitalism to take care of the problem.
And, left alone, Uber will fail. Market forces will take good care of Uber, if we leave it alone.

But, Cali will muck with it, delay the end and make it worse ... because they can tax it.
And that is all the politicians here care about.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

observer said:


> Uber (and many other present day companies) are part of a group of companies that have taken advantage of cheap, easy money like 401Ks to grow without check.
> 
> Uber would never have been viable if it didn't have access to easy capital and had to grow on self produced income like all other businesses before it.
> 
> ...


Uber lyft capital 100% from VC, mostly off shore such as Softbank. No 401k can invest in startups.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Your better off being an employee and getting 10 hours a week than being an IC and getting Florida rates with UNLIMITED EARNING POTENTIAL!


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Your better off being an employee and getting 10 hours a week than being an IC and getting Florida rates with UNLIMITED EARNING POTENTIAL!


They also throttle your earnings in Florida. In one of the busiest, most robust sectors for driving people around they U/L basically do it for free. The average fair for an Uber driver in Central Florida is 3 to 6 dollars. And most of those fares will take 15 to 30 minutes to do... It's really disgusting here.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Buckiemohawk said:


> They also throttle your earnings in Florida. In one of the busiest, most robust sectors for driving people around they U/L basically do it for free. The average fair for an Uber driver in Central Florida is 3 to 6 dollars. And most of those fares will take 15 to 30 minutes to do... It's really disgusting here.


Our economy hasn't been better for fifty years.
Thousands of good jobs are unfilled.

Why don't you just get a decent job?
Or, better yet, start your own business and become truly self employed.
Why not?


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> Our economy hasn't been better for fifty years.
> Thousands of good jobs are unfilled.
> 
> Why don't you just get a decent job?
> ...


Sir whether a person chooses to drive or any other type of work doesn't justify uber lyft colluding to suppress driver rates. Finding the evidence only a matter of time, voices getting very loud demanding Fed intervention. It's too obvious and they got careless.
The fact that both companies manipulate archaic regulations to prevent drivers from organizing and set a level field to bargain for equitable compensation allows these companies to take advantage and exploit the labor force. 
Individually drivers are powerless to negotiate for fair compensation and both companies exploit their power. However, if drivers had adequate representation for bargaining such as SAG, uber lyft would be forced to negotiate IC compensation. Drivers are subsidizing operations.
The status quo allows companies to saturate the market with desperate drivers making all expendable, thus giving uber lyft unfair advantage to exploit the labor force. 
Uber using same tactics as communist tyrants to exploit society. The community must abide by the rules or be ostracized. 
It's no longer a matter of if but when regulations catch up. Clock ticking against these companies.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

You must really suck at being a company if even through theft and abuse you manage to lose such massive amounts of money, learn to company, Uber.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Our economy hasn't been better for fifty years.
> Thousands of good jobs are unfilled.
> 
> Why don't you just get a decent job?
> ...


I drive a taxi because it's still extremely better than Uber/lyft. With zero sign of ever improving.

I used to own my own taxi, honestly....

I'm probably better off being in league with the evil cab company, less hours a month to make it work and I can be more in the 36-48 hour a week range rather than the 50+ range.

The increased costs of dealing with a cab company are honestly lower than the increased revenue from having a quality source of dispatch fares and access to the theme parks cab stands.

Going your own as a taxi/black car operator has large risks, and the rewards are questionable.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> Our economy hasn't been better for fifty years.
> Thousands of good jobs are unfilled.
> 
> Why don't you just get a decent job?
> ...


I don't work for Uber. i drive a cab. i just think its ridiculous the rates Uber charges and how much they steal


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

RodB said:


> Everything in California costs double what it costs in most of the country, Taxes are insane, and the state is broke...sure they can fix a company..


Because, We elected business oreyented polititions Democrats or Repablican alike. State became money laundering machine for corporations, and oligarchs



goneubering said:


> I don't want to be an Uber employee and I expect getting Cali politicians involved in the process will only make things worse for drivers.


Why, we elected polititions to set rules and not allowed corporation predatory actions.



Polomarko said:


> Because, We elected business oreyented polititions Democrats or Repablican alike. State became money laundering machine for corporations, and oligarchs
> 
> 
> Why, we elected polititions to set rules and not allowed corporation predatory actions. I do like flexibility but this is not limitation for drivers to be better paid and treated with dignity!





Polomarko said:


> Because, We elected business oreyented polititions Democrats or Repablican alike. State became money laundering machine for corporations, and oligarchs.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

No Prisoners said:


> Sir whether a person chooses to drive or any other type of work doesn't justify uber lyft colluding to suppress driver rates. Finding the evidence only a matter of time, voices getting very loud demanding Fed intervention. It's too obvious and they got careless.


"Collusion!" is the new battle cry of the far left communists these days.
Problem is, that most of the time it is not illegal.
I colluded this morning with my real estate agent about buying a piece of property. 
IF Uber did something illegal, then they should be brought to task. 
The problem is ... proving it. So far that is still a necessary step.



No Prisoners said:


> The fact that both companies manipulate archaic regulations to prevent drivers from organizing and set a level field to bargain for equitable compensation allows these companies to take advantage and exploit the labor force.


It is the LEGAL DUTY of a corporation to see to profits for their investors/shareholders. IF they don't, they can (and will) be successfully sued by said investors. They do have to stay in their 'legal lane'.
When I sit down at a game of chance, I am sure to understand the rules. I sit in on that game with only one goal - to take all your money, and your car. I WILL use every means, within the rules of the game, to do so. If I can use an obscure rule to my advantage, or 'manipulate' a rule to fit my needs - I will. I do both in business and cards. (I don't play cards with friends any more - I'm running out of friends.) That's the game of life. It's called "hustle''. 
I have rules imposed on me all the time. I make sure I understand the ramifications for disobeying that rule. Sometimes it's worth the risk, most times it's not. I'm good enough to win without cheating. 
There is no such thing as a 'level playing field' on this planet. Does not exist. Never will. 
You shouldn't concern yourself with trying to change Uber; instead focus on changing yourself.
Go get a job - or start your own business and run it YOUR way.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

UberBastid said:


> "Collusion!" is the new battle cry of the far left communists these days.
> Problem is, that most of the time it is not illegal.
> I colluded this morning with my real estate agent about buying a piece of property.
> IF Uber did something illegal, then they should be brought to task.
> ...


It's a good thing the founders of this country didn't think like you do.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> "Collusion!" is the new battle cry of the far left communists these days.
> Problem is, that most of the time it is not illegal.
> I colluded this morning with my real estate agent about buying a piece of property.
> IF Uber did something illegal, then they should be brought to task.
> ...


Sir In 2016, the FTC and the U.S. Department of Justice published antitrust guidance warning that companies that collude on wages or other terms of employment face serious consequences, including civil and criminal liability.
I'm not going to do the research for you, that's up to you if you want to educate yourself. 
However, your reference to communism actually applies more accurately to methods used by uber. Communist regimes dictate and force on society all forms labor and anyone who dissents against the ruling is ostracized, punished, incarcerated, or executed. 
Uber arbitrarily cuts driver rates blocking access to anyone who doesn't agree. Then trolls all forums criticizing any dissent with ludicrous comparisons to communism. 
Who's the tyrant here.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> "Collusion!" is the new battle cry of the far left communists these days.
> Problem is, that most of the time it is not illegal.
> I colluded this morning with my real estate agent about buying a piece of property.
> IF Uber did something illegal, then they should be brought to task.
> ...


Mr. UberBastid says "It is the LEGAL DUTY of a corporation to see to profits for their investors/shareholders."

That's as long as the company doesn't exploit labor force, collude with another in a DUOPOLY to suppress labor pay, and definitely doesn't have to right to be subsidized by labor as a ponzi enterprise.

I'll trade you a temporary hold on AB5 while Federal antitrust investigation of UberLyft for collusion to suppress driver pay. Plenty of evidence every time each company concurrently mimicked each other CUTTING DRIVER RATES while they're supposed to be competing for market share.

Btw Mr. UberBastid if you combine Uber with despicable = UberBastard. You certainly have a most tasteful name.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Yep,
its true.
I AM a capitalist.
And I believe that free-market corrects automatically.
It takes time, but so does enacting and enforcing a law.
I always opt for freedom over big-brother or big-government.

I have paid a price for it.
I don't apologize for it. 
I won't change.
I am free.

Free to leave the yoke of slavery that Uber offers.
Free to get a better position in life.
It is up to me, I don't whine.
It's the economy stupid.
Thank you Mr. Prez.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> Yep,
> its true.
> I AM a capitalist.
> And I believe that free-market corrects automatically.
> ...


I'm a life long conservative, voted 1st time for Reagan, Republican through Trump. Retired from banking asset management 40+ years, lived in several countries, migrated 51 years ago from abhorrent absurdity sociologist tyranny, Economics and finance from NYU class of 1982. Series 7 & 63, NMLS member of the Mortgage Bankers Association of Florida since 1997.
UBER LYFT business model flawed from inception and far from capitalistic principles. Both companies founded and subsidized by VC through IPO, broken every possible rule to gain market share, now subsidized by exploitation of drivers. 
While claiming labor force as IC both companies cross the gray area by imposing dictatorial one-sided terms without allowing ICs to negotiate fees for services rendered. 
Both companies clearly violate antitrust rules by jointly suppressing driver pay with the purpose to cut costs. Of course this has to be proven and that's why we're pushing for Federal investigation. 
You claim to be free yet you have no freedom to bargain for reasonable compensation and no alternative as market is control by DUOPOLY.
By defending Uber's status you clearly demonstrate absolutely no knowledge of basic capitalistic principles nor respect for democratic rule of law. https://www.autorentalnews.com/334593/uber-could-be-violating-antitrust-laws-judge-says


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Our economy hasn't been better for fifty years.
> Thousands of good jobs are unfilled.
> 
> Why don't you just get a decent job?
> ...


Why don't you go get a decent job for $12 an hour?
Then, four years later...when you have not gotten a raise, and cut your pay to $8 an hour...keep your mouth shut.....

Better yet, bend over and bark like a dog.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

No Prisoners said:


> Both companies clearly violate antitrust rules by jointly suppressing driver pay with the purpose to cut costs. Of course this has to be proven and that's why we're pushing for Federal investigation.
> You claim to be free yet you have no freedom to bargain for reasonable compensation and no alternative as market is control by DUOPOLY.
> By defending Uber's status you clearly demonstrate absolutely no knowledge of basic capitalistic principles nor respect for democratic rule of law. https://www.autorentalnews.com/334593/uber-could-be-violating-antitrust-laws-judge-says


I am NOT defending Ubers status, or business model.
I AM defending capitalism, and free market.
Uber (and Lyft) will NOT survive with their current model.

I don't claim to "bargain with Uber". You kidding? I'm an ant. What I have is the FREEDOM TO LEAVE AND DO BETTER. And, I have exercised that freedom. I used Uber for my purposes ... and when they could not serve me further I dropped them like a used Trojan. Plop. Done. 
Any more than the people who (now) work for me can bargain. The job is spelled out clearly, the pay is laid out clearly ... the offer is this: do the job or go home. Simple. No bargaining. Now, the jobs I offer pay $20 per hour or more and include bennies ... but, bargain? Nope. 
It's the same thing that Uber is doing. You know the job when you take it on. If it turns out to NOT be what you thought it was ... leave. Simple. There IS a lot better out there. Stop driving 75 hours a week and you'll have the time to find out.

The founders of Uber have done exactly what they wanted to do - get it big, get it sold. They got their money. Now its a bunch of rich investors who are going to get screwed. Why do I care?
What's wrong with that? You want to defend the rich investors? I don't. 
That's life.
That's business.
Winners and losers.

The economy, as it exists today, gives a LOT of options to people who VOLUNTARILY agree to drive their own car into the ground for pennies. Nobody forces a driver to drive. Drivers are FREE to decide this for themselves - and I believe that they have the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to decide that for themselves. YOU don't have the right to decide that for them.

Now, if Uber has violated laws, as currently enacted, then .. sure, let the lawyers fight over that for the next decade ... but I believe that Uber will be over long before then.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> I'm a life long conservative, voted 1st time for Reagan, Republican through Trump. Retired from banking asset management 40+ years, lived in several countries, migrated 51 years ago from abhorrent absurdity sociologist tyranny, Economics and finance from NYU class of 1982. Series 7 & 63, NMLS member of the Mortgage Bankers Association of Florida since 1997.
> UBER LYFT business model flawed from inception and far from capitalistic principles. Both companies founded and subsidized by VC through IPO, broken every possible rule to gain market share, now subsidized by exploitation of drivers.
> While claiming labor force as IC both companies cross the gray area by imposing dictatorial one-sided terms without allowing ICs to negotiate fees for services rendered.
> Both companies clearly violate antitrust rules by jointly suppressing driver pay with the purpose to cut costs. Of course this has to be proven and that's why we're pushing for Federal investigation.
> ...


If there was collusion cutting fares, that is price fixing.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> I am NOT defending Ubers status, or business model.
> I AM defending capitalism, and free market.
> Uber (and Lyft) will NOT survive with their current model.
> The founders of Uber have done exactly what they wanted to do - get it big, get it sold. They got their money. Now its a bunch of rich investors who are going to get screwed. Why do I care?
> ...


How many times do i have to explain that Uber's model is not based on true capitalistic principles. Stop drinking and do some real research and maybe you'll understand uber's a quasi ponzi scheme out of options for additional injection of capital that must be subsidized by its labor force. 
You're really clueless.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> If there was collusion cutting fares, that is price fixing.


Yes and a judge already on it. Now, since uber's operating interstate it falls under federal jurisdiction. However, each state can file claims. Usually the People's Republic of California gets a head start. Uber's biggest mistake is having stayed based in California. The idiots should've moved to Ireland long ago.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

No Prisoners said:


> How many times do i have to explain that Uber's model is not based on true capitalistic principles. Stop drinking and do some real research and maybe you'll understand uber's a quasi ponzi scheme out of options for additional injection of capital that must be subsidized by its labor force.
> You're really clueless.


You don't have to explain it any more. I get it. And I AGREE.
Holey smoke - I agree with you.

And that is why I keep saying ... THAT'S WHY THEY'LL FAIL, because they are not based on capitalistic principles. That's their downfall. That's why we don't need the gov't to pass more laws.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Yep,
> its true.
> I AM a capitalist.
> And I believe that free-market corrects automatically.
> ...


Free to exploit ignorance and necessity?

That's cool and I agree, however... circumventing existing laws through technology and design is well... breaking the law.

All the gov is doing is making it clear to Uber and Lyft that no one is above the law, the gov has probably started noticing a pattern of more scammers skirting the law with contracting through the same methods Uber created, in video games it goes like this:

Gamer finds a bug in the system and decides to exploit it, he tells friends or more notice the bug and exploit as well, by the end of the month everyone is exploiting, the game starts crumbling, the rules set for the game have been undermined so it's up to the developer to fix said problem, he fixes the problem and it all goes back to normal, the gamer who had the upper hand now becomes a regular gamer.

Gamer= Uber
Developer= Gov/lawmakers

Uber has a chance at making contracting work but they refuse to because they are lazy to redesign, have no empathy for their workers and would rather exploit loopholes than abide by the law (I like this mindset but then again, I'm a crook... at least I admit it). They are also scared that redesign won't work, given they are losing money like morons on a daily basis... to test new methods would push them beyond their capabilities in an already ****ed up infrastructure, picture Nero setting Rome on fire.

They had a chance to change everything for the better but decided to make it worse and instead chose to battle their workforce legally, when someone thinks they are getting away with murder and laughing all the way out the building, it... tends to boil the blood of lawmakers, as a developer would consider an exploiter, it's called:

Cheating.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

If Uber is breaking the law, they should be brought to task.
If they're not ... then nothing should happen to them.

It goes like this:
I join a no-limit holdem tournament at the Peppermill in Reno. 
I am one of a hundred players.
I am seated at a table of nine.
The person across from me is talking to his brother who is seated next to me in Russian.
I don't speak Russian.
I don't know what he is saying.

Because I have read the rules I say to dealer "Isn't there a rule against non-english as the table?"
She says, "Yes", and looks at the Russians and says "English only at the table gentlemen."

IF Uber is breaking the rules ... speak up. Stop them.
If not ... give them lots of rope.
But, on the micro level ... get up and leave the table. 
Nobody is forcing you to sit there and hear Russian at the table and get taken advantage of.
Go to The Golden Nugget. 
Better action there anyway.
And, THAT is capitalism.
Players will go where the game is the best.
Are you a player, or a fish?

God Bless America


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> IF Uber is breaking the rules ... speak up. Stop them.


We did and that's what's happening through AB5.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

The Entomologist said:


> We did and that's what's happening through AB5.


Instead of simply finding a better game at a different casino?
You have way more energy than me.
Good luck to ya.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Just want to alert everyone to a new term picking up a lot of attention. APPLOITAION. Exploitation of labor force by app based algorithm systems and proliferation of Permatemp labor force.
This picking up much attention from regulators.

The main reason is that legislators realizing Permatemp labor, uber's employment model same as most gig companies, are transferring basic costs of labor to taxpayers while enhancing their bottom line. Most people don't understand nor realize the dangers to future state and federal budgets, because temp labor force lack health care and retirement benefits, normally covered as employees.
I'm not an advocate of employee status for rideshare drivers, but the extreme low rates paid to drivers is a transfer of wealth from what would normally be middle class to company insiders. Uber lyft exploiting drivers to subsidize their growth and flawed model.
Google has over 50 thousand independent contractors who replaced former employees. Uber lyft over 5 million combined.
If these companies paid equitable compensation AB5 would not exist.
However, if states and federal government don't act accordingly the real costs will be transferred to taxpayers.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Instead of simply finding a better game at a different casino?
> You have way more energy than me.
> Good luck to ya.


Once that casino closes, I'll go find myself another, not because I'm an asshole seeking to see them broke but because they sequestered all the jackpot money subsidizing losses through morons who deal for them, see everyone's predicament yet?

They are making unrealistic alterations to taxi's on the backs of their contractors, it's not as simple as "letting it go", their mere existence causes damage to the job market.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

The Entomologist said:


> You must really suck at being a company if even through theft and abuse you manage to lose such massive amounts of money, learn to company, Uber.


Uber/Lyft...do you even company, bro?! ?


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> If there was collusion cutting fares, that is price fixing.


It doesn't take a genius to see that U/L was and is price fixing, just look at how they kept lowering drivers rate simultaneously over the past 4years. Always within the same range and time frame.
Remember the founders of both companies were and are still are friends. They operate right in the same location and create TOS that are almost identical, only the way they word it is a little different but the outcome is the same.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> It doesn't take a genius to see that U/L was and is price fixing, just look at how they kept lowering drivers rate simultaneously over the past 4years. Always within the same range and time frame.
> Remember the founders of both companies were and are still are friends. They operate right in the same location and create TOS that are almost identical, only the way they word it is a little different but the outcome is the same.


Exactly.
Their CEOs issued a joint statement against the California law.

They have been issuing joint dictates for years.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

No Prisoners said:


> Uber lyft capital 100% from VC, mostly off shore such as Softbank. No 401k can invest in startups.


Not in startups but who do the VCs sell to at IPO?

Or in Uber/Lyfts case, thought they were going to sell to?

If there was no 401k pot of gold (among other investors) to sell to at the end, the VCs would be less likely to invest in these types of ponzi schemes.

The VCs 130 billion bet didn't pay off because of bad PR. Now they have to lick their wounds and hope Uber does manage to make a profit and later sell to investors that are wary at the moment.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion...ust-be-14015889.php?__twitter_impression=true


Thank you for the article. 
I have been living in California for almost four decades and have had my fair share of witnessing this complex and overstaffed state government and corrupt politicians regulating everything and anything.

This article is presenting a good and slick argument for California lawmakers to impose employment regulations for rideshare business. It may very well work for the full time drivers and give them some certainty and some low level of income guaranty. But more prosperity? It's questionable.

This state of ours likes big administration and more administration and more and more state, county and city government employees.

City of Los Angeles, a good example, is probably one of the most corrupt, overstaffed and inefficient city administrations in the nation. I dealt with them many times and I can just vividly imagine how they would exploit the rideshare regulation to hire more city admins, maybe one for every 3 driver.That wouldn't surprise me. And who pays for that?' The rideshare driver and the riders.

I have more to say such as the fact that the corporations somehow will bend the laws to their benefits with the benefit of having lobbyist, but that's for another day.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Tom Oldman said:


> Thank you for the article.
> I have been living in California for almost four decades and have had my fair share of witnessing this complex and overstaffed state government and corrupt politicians regulating everything and anything.
> 
> This article is presenting a good and slick argument for California lawmakers to impose employment regulations for rideshare business. It may very well work for the full time drivers and give them some certainty and some low level of income guaranty. But more prosperity? It's questionable.
> ...


I find it odd that the New Socialists of America love the whole government give-away ideas - almost as much as they like to complain about government.
Do they really think that a business that is run by gov't is an efficient and profitable system that guarantees prosperity for all?
But then, that IS the big lie of socialism, isn't it?


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> I find it odd that the New Socialists of America love the whole government give-away ideas - almost as much as they like to complain about government.
> Do they really think that a business that is run by gov't is an efficient and profitable system that guarantees prosperity for all?
> But then, that IS the big lie of socialism, isn't it?


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> I find it odd that the New Socialists of America love the whole government give-away ideas - almost as much as they like to complain about government.
> Do they really think that a business that is run by gov't is an efficient and profitable system that guarantees prosperity for all?
> But then, that IS the big lie of socialism, isn't it?


Your post is most precise just as your previous


UberBastid said:


> Because Uber is a prime example of what is WRONG with PURE capitalism.


Ironically the birth and base of modern extreme capitalism is in the most liberal of all 50 states.
Gig companies are exploiting loopholes in regulations to minimize cost of labor and transfer traditional costs of benefits to taxpayers. This model of labor is defined as Permatemp.
Gig companies are replacing millions of traditional positions with the independent contractor labor model, which allows companies to isolate laborers individually without access to representation. Gig companies maintain total control over compensation and terms of services.
This is creating extreme disparity in income and transfer of wealth. Basically, since regulations haven't caught up to gig economy, companies are able to exploit the labor force to beef up their bottom line.
Ultimately cities like San Francisco become dystopian societies, giving socialism the only hope for the displaced masses. Look what's happening in San Francisco and LA with the housing problem. Same in NYC and Miami. Homelessness is through the roof, because the cost of housing is unbearable by the working class.
Then you have the problem with illegal immigrants displacing traditional labor force in construction industry. Who do you think is lobbying politicians to maintain open borders.
Long term this is not sustainable in any society.
Extreme capitalism opens the doors to abhorrent socialist ideals.


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