# Uber is a Huge Ponzi Scheme, thats all



## driver5000 (Jun 11, 2016)

Uber is no more than a huge ponzi scheme designed to raise as much capital as possible, they will eventually close thier doors and dissolve before being sued for their fraud.

drivers are desperate poor people as no person would ever work so cheap.

who would ever drive a car in los Angeles traffic all day 10 hours, 135 miles driven, for net pay of $70?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

driver5000 said:


> who would ever drive a car in los Angeles traffic all day 10 hours for net pay of $70?


Thousands drive for $7/hr in Los Angeles, but hundreds of thousands drive for less in the rest of the country.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

one day the Travis and his top Cronies will just disappear like a fart in the wind and Uber's companies accounts will just disappear...

Then th company will crash as it lacks the funds to oat drivers for trips already given.


This could easily be a madoff level scam that could pop any day now.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> one day the Travis and his top Cronies will just disappear like a fart in the wind and Uber's companies accounts will just disappear...
> 
> Then th company will crash as it lacks the funds to oat drivers for trips already given.
> 
> This could easily be a madoff level scam that could pop any day now.


The only pyramid scheme part is paying drivers bonuses off the backs of what other drivers earn without a bonus, and paying drivers bonuses for getting new drivers, it's like Amway, you earn part of what other people earn.

The ponzi scheme is at top level where they are defrauding the investors because drivers are unhappy and pax keep expecting more for less money.


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2015)

Lee239 said:


> The only pyramid scheme part is paying drivers bonuses off the backs of what other drivers earn without a bonus, and paying drivers bonuses for getting new drivers, it's like Amway, you earn part of what other people earn.
> 
> The ponzi scheme is at top level where they are defrauding the investors because drivers are unhappy and pax keep expecting more for less money.


Don't worry as soon as the judge puts an injunction against FUBER for stealing Google driverless cars technology; the party is over!!!


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Uber and google will crash econmy with AI like technoligy. Humans are nothing and irreplaceable.


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## Sundaland (Oct 12, 2015)

I have noticed in my area, a smallish tourist town, that Uber is the late-night hustler ride. It is cheap and used by drunks and party goers. If you want a reliable ride to the airport in the morning people will pay a HUGE premium for Lyft, nothing for Uber. The problem with Lyft is they will deactivate you based on a false accusation. Be very careful with Lyft if you get on with them, the people in Lyft HQ have their heads stuck up their A$$es.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Sundaland said:


> I have noticed in my area, a smallish tourist town, that Uber is the late-night hustler ride. It is cheap and used by drunks and party goers. If you want a reliable ride to the airport in the morning people will pay a HUGE premium for Lyft, nothing for Uber. The problem with Lyft is they will deactivate you based on a false accusation. Be very careful with Lyft if you get on with them, the people in Lyft HQ have their heads stuck up their A$$es.


Because you as a driver are disposable.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

Its not a ponzi scheme at all. It is a company that will one day teach venture capitalists the value of money. They will all lose alot of sleep one day. We are all holding our breaths because it will be here soon


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

It's clearly not a Ponzi scheme for the simple reason that new entrants don't pay to enter the program.

In a Ponzi scheme, withdrawals of cash from the scheme are paid out from the sign-in fees from new entrants, whereas with Uber withdrawals are paid out from pax fares and investor cash.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> It's clearly not a Ponzi scheme for the simple reason that new entrants don't pay to enter the program.


Tell that to the mokes who financed a car through Uber.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Tell that to the mokes who financed a car through Uber.


It doesn't matter whom it is told to; it doesn't change the facts.

Uber is a poor business to invest in for drivers, but being an unwise investment choice doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Fubernuber said:


> Its not a ponzi scheme at all. It is a company that will one day teach venture capitalists the value of money. They will all loose alot of sleep one day. We are all holding our breaths because it will be here soon


Itll teach them data is not a good asset over the gold standard.

They want to go cashless but data can be minipulated more so then the gold standard


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## Sundaland (Oct 12, 2015)

Uber is a ponzi scheme, Lyft is a cult. Pick your poison.



Lee239 said:


> Because you as a driver are disposable.


Really, you think? Thanks for the valuable insight. That is something I never considered before.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> Because you as a driver are disposable.


I wana see how they work when noone drives for them!


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> one day the Travis and his top Cronies will just disappear like a fart in the wind and Uber's companies accounts will just disappear...
> 
> Then th company will crash as it lacks the funds to oat drivers for trips already given.
> 
> This could easily be a madoff level scam that could pop any day now.


Exactly, All the boost,Surge, Quest and new driver sign on bonuses is coming straight out of uber pocket, New drivers are getting smarter by signing up for the big bonuses and quit.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

driver5000 said:


> Uber is no more than a huge ponzi scheme designed to raise as much capital as possible, they will eventually close thier doors and dissolve before being sued for their fraud.
> 
> drivers are desperate poor people as no person would ever work so cheap.
> 
> who would ever drive a car in los Angeles traffic all day 10 hours, 135 miles driven, for net pay of $70?


***************************
It really depends on what market/city you're driving in. LA is basically a parking lot everywhere, so no surprise there. And of course the rideshare company. I'm a Lyft driver here in San Francisco and earn $250 (worst case) to $370 per day. This goes up to $550 - $600+ on weekends which are busiest. And it's not impossible to bring in over $900+/day in San Francisco if MLB or an A lister artist like Jay Z etc. are in town.

I just started driving with Lyft, but during Superbowl week, had a friend who raked in $1500 over ONE day aka Saturday of that weekend...

Only city I think that beats SF is NYC where you can make $70k annually


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## toi (Sep 8, 2014)

driver5000 said:


> Uber is no more than a huge ponzi scheme designed to raise as much capital as possible, they will eventually close thier doors and dissolve before being sued for their fraud.
> 
> drivers are desperate poor people as no person would ever work so cheap.
> 
> who would ever drive a car in los Angeles traffic all day 10 hours, 135 miles driven, for net pay of $70?


Sounds like you did lol


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> one day the Travis and his top Cronies will just disappear like a fart in the wind and Uber's companies accounts will just disappear...
> 
> Then th company will crash as it lacks the funds to oat drivers for trips already given.
> 
> This could easily be a madoff level scam that could pop any day now.


I do think that Travis and his top Cronies will end up behind bars.
Do you think that Arab investor will symply gave up three billions and say ok never mined did not work out.
This guys are in deep sheet.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

Uber is not in any way, shape or form a Ponzi scheme. It's problematic for a number of reasons, and poorly managed, but it does not function, operate, or defraud people on the bottom like a pyramid scheme does. 

So, other than being completely wrong, you make a great point.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Fubernuber said:


> Its not a ponzi scheme at all. It is a company that will one day teach venture capitalists the value of money. They will all loose alot of sleep one day. We are all holding our breaths because it will be here soon


It's not a ponzi scheme no,

But... based on their laughable lack of a return on investments (VC Investments) i'm guessing when it crashes everyone is going to be shocked.

Uber will go down in history,

As what i don't know...

Either one of the most convulated scams ever conceived,
Or one of the biggest flops of all time,
Or the end of independent contractor business model, because uber is just that horrible to us..

But if they were going to make money off this I have to ask..

How many household names with a global presence are there that lose money on a consistent basis?


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## James Worley (Sep 29, 2016)

Bullshit !

Uber defrauds those who drive !



swingset said:


> Uber is not in any way, shape or form a Ponzi scheme. It's problematic for a number of reasons, and poorly managed, but it does not function, operate, or defraud people on the bottom like a pyramid scheme does.
> 
> So, other than being completely wrong, you make a great point.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

James Worley said:


> Bullshit !
> 
> Uber defrauds those who drive !


You agreed to the terms of service. How is Uber violating that contract? That's the only valid fraud that would be worth noting.

I haven't been defrauded yet. So, if you have, detail how and what you did about it.

I've heard of some instances, but haven't experienced it. Tell me how it's happened to you, and if it's systemic why haven't I been affected?

Also, you're not rebutting a single thing I said. Saying a company defrauds it's employees is not a legitimate rebuttal to the statement that Uber is not a Ponzi Scheme. They are two entirely different concepts.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> It's clearly not a Ponzi scheme for the simple reason that new entrants don't pay to enter the program.
> 
> In a Ponzi scheme, withdrawals of cash from the scheme are paid out from the sign-in fees from new entrants, whereas with Uber withdrawals are paid out from pax fares and investor cash.


I was about to say, I don't think many people here know what a Ponzi scheme is and is only calling Uber that because it sounds like a smart way of complaining about Uber...

I guarantee you the investors know every detail of Uber operations as well as their strategy projection for years to come. No one gives up billions of dollars without having full access to all the details. The Investors know what is going on and agreed to the risks of Uber's strategy.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> I was about to say, I don't think many people here know what a Ponzi scheme is and is only calling Uber that because it sounds like a smart way of complaining about Uber...
> 
> I guarantee you the investors know every detail of Uber operations as well as their strategy projection for years to come. No one gives up billions of dollars without having full access to all the details. The Investors know what is going on and agreed to the risks of Uber's strategy.


This can be seen as a ponzi scheme. The vcs at the top of the pyramid. Newer vcs at the bottom. The ones at the top get the best terms. New money is used to keep business running. ....... at a certain point the line between a ponzi scheme and the modern day tech startup is blurred. Uber is a fine example of that. Its not a ponzi but thats just a 5 letter wore not fully reflective of this 4 letter word company


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> This can be seen as a ponzi scheme. The vcs at the top of the pyramid. Newer vcs at the bottom. The ones at the top get the best terms. New money is used to keep business running.


Still not a Ponzi scheme - for it to be considered one then it must meet the definition, and that is an organization in which earlier investors are paid out from the funds invested by new investors.

There is no evidence that Uber's early investors have received any money from Uber. If there was suddenly a revelation that Uber had indeed been paying off early investors from the funds of later investors, then the resulting shitshow would be most spectacular as well as highly entertaining. The Securities and Exchange Commission would fall on Uber like a ton of bricks, closing it down and sending Kalanick and cronies to be cellmates with Bernie Madoff.

The fact that some investors get better terms than others is neither here nor there - negotiating a better (or worse) term for one's investment in a company is not illegal.



steveK2016 said:


> I was about to say, I don't think many people here know what a Ponzi scheme is and is only calling Uber that because it sounds like a smart way of complaining about Uber...
> 
> I guarantee you the investors know every detail of Uber operations as well as their strategy projection for years to come. No one gives up billions of dollars without having full access to all the details. The Investors know what is going on and agreed to the risks of Uber's strategy.


It's not a Ponzi, but I think that Uber's strategy has been "fluid" over the last few years, and almost certainly hasn't gone according to whatever original plan Kalanick had at the start.

One proof of this is Uber Pool. That wasn't part of the original strategy. Apparently it only came about because Kalanick found out that Lyft was developing it, so he also jumped on the bandwagon and took the idea.

The same goes for up front pricing - I doubt that was part of the original strategy. If it had been, then why not simply pay drivers the low fixed rates and charge riders whatever price Uber liked right from the start?

A lot of what Uber does has the "I'm flying by the seat of my pants" feel to it. And saying that investors wouldn't invest billions in companies unless they have full access to the details is easily disproven (Bernie Madoff).


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> It's clearly not a Ponzi scheme for the simple reason that new entrants don't pay to enter the program.
> 
> In a Ponzi scheme, withdrawals of cash from the scheme are paid out from the sign-in fees from new entrants, whereas with Uber withdrawals are paid out from pax fares and investor cash.


What do u call the value of their cars and time and personal insurance and license tabs?


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## R James (Apr 25, 2017)

driver5000 said:


> Uber is no more than a huge ponzi scheme designed to raise as much capital as possible, they will eventually close thier doors and dissolve before being sued for their fraud.
> 
> drivers are desperate poor people as no person would ever work so cheap.
> 
> who would ever drive a car in los Angeles traffic all day 10 hours, 135 miles driven, for net pay of $70?


Isn't the minimum wage in L.A. $15? And if so why not get a minimum wage job instead of driving Uber then?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

freddieman said:


> What do u call the value of their cars and time and personal insurance and license tabs?


What would I call them? If I had to go with a name, I'd probably call them Luke. I like that name and was tempted to select it as the name for my son, but didn't for obvious reasons.


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## Fuber in their faces (Feb 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> It's clearly not a Ponzi scheme for the simple reason that new entrants don't pay to enter the program.
> 
> In a Ponzi scheme, withdrawals of cash from the scheme are paid out from the sign-in fees from new entrants, whereas with Uber withdrawals are paid out from pax fares and investor cash.


That's a pyramid scheme. Ponzi is what Uber's high-ups are doing to the investors: promising something with no intent to deliver after the investment hits your bank account.



swingset said:


> Uber is not in any way, shape or form a Ponzi scheme. It's problematic for a number of reasons, and poorly managed, but it does not function, operate, or defraud people on the bottom like a pyramid scheme does.
> 
> So, other than being completely wrong, you make a great point.


Damnt....People are stupid. Ponzi scheme is different from a pyramid scheme no matter how few letters your brain wants to process


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## Spinn (Feb 21, 2017)

swingset said:


> You agreed to the terms of service. How is Uber violating that contract? That's the only valid fraud that would be worth noting.
> 
> I haven't been defrauded yet. So, if you have, detail how and what you did about it.
> 
> ...


Aren't we all defrauded when Uber includes their various "fees" in our gross income? We never see these (booking fee, split-fare fee, etc) but Uber is banking that money and NOT paying taxes on it. Is this how they are saying they are losing money?

I bet they will also do the same with the overages from their upfront pricing scheme.

They have been defrauding NY drivers by charging 25% of the collected tax "accidentally".

I'm sure there are other examples that I left out/don't know about.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fuber in their faces said:


> Ponzi is what Uber's high-ups are doing to the investors: promising something with no intent to deliver after the investment hits your bank account.


No, for an operation to be a Ponzi scheme there have to be outflows of money from the operation to participants which are funded from the inflows of money from other participants. Simply promising something without any intention of delivering does not fit the definition. I have promised my wife for years that someday we would move back to her home town so we would all live closer to her mother. I have no intention whatsoever of carrying this out, but that does not mean that I am running a Ponzi scheme.


> Damnt....People are stupid. Ponzi scheme is different from a pyramid scheme no matter how few letters your brain wants to process


And an orange is different from a banana. And Uber is not a Ponzi scheme, or a pyramid, or an orange, or a banana.


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## Roselyn (May 23, 2017)

It is definitely a Ponzi scheme that preys on the uninformed, needy drivers who are willing to borrow from their cars to make some quick money. 
The main issue here is the lack of information. No one here or in any other forums discusses the real facts. It's all wishful thinking from uninformed drivers. I have not seeing any one discussing the real cost of giving rides using the official figures and taking into consideration what it implies to get all those people in and out of your car and drive between rides and back home from far away locations where the last ride took you. It's the most horrible exploitation of drivers in plain view. No one complains because at some point we all take rides and want to continue to pay little at the expense of the drivers. Every one knows what a bad employer Walmart is, but no one wants to say how horrible Uber and Lyft are to their drivers. Look at the example below where I drove for a total of 56 minutes and made a total of $6.75. Not even minimum wage or cost of the driving and waiting. When I complained this is what Lyft provided:


Pick-up and Drop-off: 8995 Old Roswell Rd, Roswell
Pickup Charge: $1.00
Distance: $3.25 (4.34 miles × $0.75 per mile)
Time: $5.04 (42.03 minutes × $0.12 per minute)
Ride Total: $9.30
Commission: -$2.32
*Total Sent To Driver: $6.97

I drove for 9 minutes to get to that location and for other 5 minutes before I got another ride. Totaling 56 minutes related to this ride for $6.97. On top of that the rider wanted to scam me since he didn't want to enter his final destination which was the same original. Therefore, per previous experiences with Uber, the app would have said that there was no ride and close down before completing the trip. Be aware of the scams some riders are attempting to run by manipulating the way they enter the original and final destination when these are the same. *


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## Veju (Apr 17, 2017)

If history has taught us one thing, it's that billionaires rarely do prison time. Madoff had to, there was public outcry. But did any of his cronies do time? Nope.


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## Fuber in their faces (Feb 19, 2017)

Wish I could make $6 an hour...


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

freddieman said:


> What do u call the value of their cars and time and personal insurance and license tabs?


I call that stuff you already had (of your own volition) before you ever decided to do Uber. Come on, man.



Spinn said:


> Aren't we all defrauded when Uber includes their various "fees" in our gross income? We never see these (booking fee, split-fare fee, etc) but Uber is banking that money and NOT paying taxes on it. Is this how they are saying they are losing money?
> 
> I bet they will also do the same with the overages from their upfront pricing scheme.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's not fraud. You agreed to the terms. Jesus.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> It is definitely a Ponzi scheme that preys on the uninformed, needy drivers who are willing to borrow from their cars to make some quick money.
> The main issue here is the lack of information. No one here or in any other forums discusses the real facts. It's all wishful thinking from uninformed drivers. I have not seeing any one discussing the real cost of giving rides using the official figures and taking into consideration what it implies to get all those people in and out of your car and drive between rides and back home from far away locations where the last ride took you. It's the most horrible exploitation of drivers in plain view. No one complains because at some point we all take rides and want to continue to pay little at the expense of the drivers. Every one knows what a bad employer Walmart is, but no one wants to say how horrible Uber and Lyft are to their drivers. Look at the example below where I drove for a total of 56 minutes and made a total of $6.75. Not even minimum wage or cost of the driving and waiting. When I complained this is what Lyft provided:
> 
> 
> ...


It's not technically a Ponzi scheme...

My best guess is it will go down in history as an uber scheme or more likely a Kalanick scheme. These schemes are usually named after the first person or the most well known person to pull it off.

No one has ever done anything like it before.


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## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> I guarantee you the investors know every detail of Uber operations as well as their strategy projection for years to come


Incorrect. Uber likes to solicit investment capital without any projections based anywhere near reality. This was widely documented in 2016 when they were soliciting investment capital from JP Morgan and a couple of other investment banks, but would not provide so much as a pro forma or any financial disclosures to potential investors.


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