# POLL: Cash and Private Jobs



## Anti (May 27, 2017)

Let's get this poll started!


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## mmjljhlkjhlk (Mar 27, 2017)

partner ? i assume you are referring uber which is master - > slave relationship 
i am not loyal to uber as we don't have trusted relationship , but not considering cash job due to operational isssue. which option should i choose


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## χ²(1) (Jun 1, 2016)

I've done cash jobs, but not from touting per se. What happens is that my passenger asks me if they can request me again next time. I give them my phone number and they can call/text me. If I'm available, then I take them as a cash job. If I'm not available, then they can Uber in the usual way.


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## Ant Farmer (May 28, 2017)

χ²(1) said:


> I've done cash jobs, but not from touting per se. What happens is that my passenger asks me if they can request me again next time. I give them my phone number and they can call/text me. If I'm available, then I take them as a cash job. If I'm not available, then they can Uber in the usual way.


The only difference between that and a street hustler is time. They are still choosing to pay you cash over using Uber.

How do you charge? Same rate as Uber would be or more or less?


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## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

Cash is king...


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## uber_driver (Apr 6, 2016)

i think you loose the freedom
you gotta go when they call you
if you dont go a time or 2 they will never book you again
also you gotta get there even if you are in other corner of the town
few clients asked me for it
but i found it waste of time
i only take cash if they make booking through uber while i am working and they offer a acceptable fare for cancelling on uber


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## χ²(1) (Jun 1, 2016)

Ant Farmer said:


> How do you charge? Same rate as Uber would be or more or less?


I tell my passengers that I'll charge them the same rate as Uber, but they've always been willing to pay more (which I'm more than happy to accept)



uber_driver said:


> i think you loose the freedom
> you gotta go when they call you
> if you dont go a time or 2 they will never book you again


If they never book you again, you won't lose your freedom.

If they repeatedly book you again, you have a permanent source of income.

I don't see where the problem is.


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## yogi bear (Dec 25, 2015)

last few times i've caught an uber i've cancelled on their arrival (if less than 5 minutes) and just given them a tenner for what prolly woulda been a $6.00 minimum fare (3km at night time)

i dont feel right knowing i'm taking advantage of some poor schmuck driving me home for $4.50 when I know this barely cover fuel and running costs.


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## Amet80 (May 21, 2017)

yogi bear said:


> last few times i've caught an uber i've cancelled on their arrival (if less than 5 minutes) and just given them a tenner for what prolly woulda been a $6.00 minimum fare (3km at night time)
> 
> i dont feel right knowing i'm taking advantage of some poor schmuck driving me home for $4.50 when I know this barely cover fuel and running costs.


Good on you


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

1. Not all compulsory third party insurance covers commercial trips. A 'cash' trip may end up with the driver losing everything they own. 
Make sure you are covered!

2. GST and income tax is still due on 'cash' trips and the failure to report and pay the tax is a criminal offence.



yogi bear said:


> last few times i've caught an uber i've cancelled on their arrival (if less than 5 minutes) and just given them a tenner for what prolly woulda been a $6.00 minimum fare (3km at night time)
> 
> i dont feel right knowing i'm taking advantage of some poor schmuck driving me home for $4.50 when I know this barely cover fuel and running costs.


And how do you know that insurance is correct? So you give him a $10, he crashes and you lose two legs. You will not sue? You do not seem to know the extreme risk you are putting yourself and the driver in. Quite stupid indeed in my opinion.


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## Surge Donut (Jun 5, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> And how do you know that insurance is correct? So you give him a $10, he crashes and you lose two legs. You will not sue? You do not seem to know the extreme risk you are putting yourself and the driver in. Quite stupid indeed in my opinion.


Aren't all injuries on Australian roads already covered by compulsory third party insurance. If you get injured as a passenger or pedestrian you'll be covered. Why would you sue if they are already getting compensation?


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Surge Donut said:


> Aren't all injuries on Australian roads already covered by compulsory third party insurance. If you get injured as a passenger or pedestrian you'll be covered. Why would you sue if they are already getting compensation?


Nope, not if you aware doing a commercial trip. Only 2 of the 4 insurance companies in qld that provide CTP cover a commercial trip.


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## Surge Donut (Jun 5, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> Nope, not if you aware doing a commercial trip. Only 2 of the 4 insurance companies in qld that provide CTP cover a commercial trip.


If I pay my friend $2o for some fuel to take me to the airport would you consider that commercial trip?


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Surge Donut said:


> If I pay my friend $2o for some fuel to take me to the airport would you consider that commercial trip?


No, payment by a friend towards costs is not a commercial trip. Picking up a stranger and charging them cash is a commercial trip and they, as a stranger would sue you for everything you own if your CTP insurance company refuses to pay as it was a commercial trip. 
Doing a trip for a friend who pays you pertrol money is. It doing it for a profit and your friend is very unlikely to sue. 
The ATO report however that if you do this 'friend' trip regularly and change above actual costs of doing the trip, then it is commercial and reportable as income. Two issues, tax and insurance.

Once again, you are a complete fool if you are as a driver, taking cash and not 100% aware if your insurance CTP provider will cover you. A fool.


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## Surge Donut (Jun 5, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> No, payment by a friend towards costs is not a commercial trip.
> 
> The ATO report however that if you do this 'friend' trip regularly and change above actual costs of doing the trip, then it is commercial and reportable as income.


So you are saying it depends on the relationship of the rider and the driver? That seems a little subjective. I consider everyone a friend so that will help greatly with my tax woes.

You see, most of my cash trips are picking up people from bus stops. If they are going the same direction I'll let them come along for $10-20 cash. People always pay where I pick up because it's late and buses are not frequent.

So according to your rules all I need to do is say the $20 is towards helping with running costs (fuel, general wear and tear) and my new friend is not a commercial passenger and tax is not applicable and CTP insurance is good enough.

You see there is no way to prove that the driver was doing cash jobs frequently on a commercial basis so therefore the 'giving friend a lift' rule would apply.

The way I see it you would be a fool _NOT_ to do cash trips. You just need to be smart about how you do it.


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## mmjljhlkjhlk (Mar 27, 2017)

it's sharing cost vs Making profit (or intention to make profit )


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Surge Donut said:


> So you are saying it depends on the relationship of the rider and the driver? That seems a little subjective. I consider everyone a friend so that will help greatly with my tax woes.
> 
> You see, most of my cash trips are picking up people from bus stops. If they are going the same direction I'll let them come along for $10-20 cash. People always pay where I pick up because it's late and buses are not frequent.
> 
> ...


You are foolish to 'twist' it so you evade tax and to not know if insurance is valid. Perhaps you have nothing to actually lose in which case your greed may be a riders greatest tragedy.

The ato also view all registered uber drivers as just that. No 'cash' profit jobs for friends allowed.


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## Surge Donut (Jun 5, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> You are foolish to 'twist' it so you evade tax and to not know if insurance is valid. Perhaps you have nothing to actually lose in which case your greed may be a riders greatest tragedy.
> 
> The ato also view all registered uber drivers as just that. No 'cash' profit jobs for friends allowed.


Not true man.

Where does it say that non-uber drivers can take cash from friends but people who signed up to Uber can't?


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## Wabbit-169 (Dec 22, 2016)

Nothing wrong with soliciting business in some form from a captive audience! Doesnt have to be rides


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## wasabi (Mar 14, 2017)

Surge Donut said:


> You see, most of my cash trips are picking up people from bus stops. If they are going the same direction I'll let them come along for $10-20 cash. People always pay where I pick up because it's late and buses are not frequent.


As a _rider_, there is no way in hell I would jump into a stranger's car at a bus stop if they offered me a lift for cash. I don't care if you offer me mints/lollies. Didn't your mother ever teach you not to get into a car with strangers? I'd actually consider calling the cops to report that some creep is driving around trying to get random people to get in his car. Consider how creepy you seem from the rider's perspective.


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## st956702 (Nov 27, 2016)

χ²(1) said:


> permanent source of income.


 ????????????????????????????

all this discussion !!!
what BS?!!
why don't you simply take it via the uber application and shut up??
seems you are trying to be naughty little people yet to grow up!!

cash in hand
avoid GST
no tax on the income
REALLY, get a hold of yourselves - you're not dealing in drugs f'chrissake!!!! (I or are u?)

it's share car drive you are offering and you would need to be dealing in hundreds of dollars each and every week to make this chat worthwhile - even my reply is a boorish tiresome but at least I am not flagulating in public!!
U are dealing in pennies!!!, not gold mines..............


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Paul Collins said:


> Not all compulsory third party insurance covers commercial trips. A 'cash' trip may end up with the driver losing everything they own.
> Make sure you are covered!


The same insurers also _DO NOT_ offer any coverage for paid Uber trips!


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Instyle said:


> The same insurers also _DO NOT_ offer any coverage for paid Uber trips!


Most likely however uber have PL insurance while on an uber trip. 
In some cases uber have also covered the property insurance on the car.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Paul Collins said:


> Most likely however uber have PL insurance while on an uber trip.
> In some cases uber have also covered the property insurance on the car.


We all know that is complete fiction! There is no official Uber p/l insurance, they simply self insure which is completely different (more like a verbal guarantee with lots of holes in it).

I suggest all drivers read the driver agreement where it explicitly says there is _NO_ coverage for absolutely anything, and you "the driver" absolve Uber from all and any liability.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

"Uber has always been committed to offering the best possible experience for both riders and drivers. All over the world, our ridesharing option has revolutionised the way in which people get around cities, ensuring that riders always have access to a convenient, reliable, and affordable way of getting where they need to go.

We remain committed to the safety of riders and drivers using the Uber platform. That's why it's important to us that every driver-partner on the Uber system meets, and continues to meet, our rigorous safety standards.

Ridesharing driver-partners in Australia must be at least 21 years of age, and drive a registered four-door vehicle, which is no older than nine years old, under a full driver's licence. Ridesharing driver-partners must also pass a rigorous criminal history police check, as well as undergoing a driving history check provided by their local state or territory transport authority.

As a minimum, all uberX ridesharing driver-partners are also required to have a current policy of compulsory third party (CTP) and third party property insurance.

*But we don't stop there - we want to ensure that riders, as well as members of the community, are protected. That's why all Uber ridesharing driver-partners in Australia are also protected by at least AUD$20,000,000 contingent coverage for bodily injury to third parties, as well as property damage to road users outside the uberX vehicle. That coverage is provided by CGU Insurance Limited (AFSL 238291). CGU is a division of Insurance Australia Group (IAG) and has a 160 year history.*

This means that if, in the unlikely event of an accident, a ridesharing driver-partner's CTP insurance or third party property insurance is exhausted or does not apply for some reason, passengers, pedestrians, other drivers, and the community at large can rest assured knowing that ridesharing partners remain covered by a robust first-class Australian insurance policy. Note, a claim excess does apply and there is no insurance cover for riders' personal property.

It's worth mentioning that, in cities where we operate UberBLACK, UberLUX and uberTAXI, those rides are provided by commercially licensed and insured ridesharing partners, and as such are covered by the commercial insurance policies of the individual partnering transportation providers.

Finally, from request to drop-off, the entire Uber experience is geared towards ensuring reliability and safety. Upon requesting a car, our technology provides the rider with their driver's name, photograph, licence plate, vehicle type, and a contact number. The rider can see the car approaching on a map, and share their journey in real time with friends or loved ones using our SafetyNet feature. Both riders and drivers must also provide feedback after each journey."
https://www.uber.com/en-AU/blog/sydney/ridesharing-with-uber-a-safe-reliable-and-affordable-transport-option/
Legal opinions as well to indicate coverage.
https://www.smithslawyers.com.au/knowledgebase/info/uber-accident-insured/


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## Surge Donut (Jun 5, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> "Uber has always been committed to offering the best possible experience for both riders and drivers. All over the world, our ridesharing option has revolutionised the way in which people get around cities, ensuring that riders always have access to a convenient, reliable, and affordable way of getting where they need to go.
> 
> We remain committed to the safety of riders and drivers using the Uber platform. That's why it's important to us that every driver-partner on the Uber system meets, and continues to meet, our rigorous safety standards.
> 
> ...


What you found was compulsory third party insurance. They just mixed the words around to make it sound like something unique.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Surge Donut said:


> What you found was compulsory third party insurance. They just mixed the words around to make it sound like something unique.


Ah no. Uber have a policy with *CGU Insurance Limited (AFSL 238291)*
I know of a couple of cases where uber have paid on this policy.


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## Surge Donut (Jun 5, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> Ah no. Uber have a policy with *CGU Insurance Limited (AFSL 238291)*
> I know of a couple of cases where uber have paid on this policy.


It specifically says:



Paul Collins said:


> property damage to road users outside the uberX vehicle.


Key word is *outside*


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

That’s why all Uber ridesharing driver-partners in Australia are also protected by at least AUD$20,000,000 contingent coverage for bodily injury to third parties, as well as property damage to road users outside the uberX vehicle.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> That's why all Uber ridesharing driver-partners in Australia are also protected by at least AUD$20,000,000 contingent coverage for bodily injury to third parties, as well as property damage to road users outside the uberX vehicle.


Has anyone actually sighted this insurance policy? Or are we taking Uber's word that it actually exists?


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Driver agreement trumps anything written on a webpage.


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## Waingro (Aug 29, 2016)

Have an accident guys and think of me when you are in the Supreme Court sued for neg driving...!!! But please post on here your barrister fees and also whats left of your bank account... your super will be safe however you might have to hock your children. Cabbies pay $9000 CTP slip for a reason.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Instyle said:


> Driver agreement trumps anything written on a webpage.


Good point. I see no reason this should not be in the driver agreement although I am sure a court would count the general webpage as coverage or at least the perception of coverage. The lady I helped raised funds for when she had a turn and crashed got covered under the uber policy.


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## BrisLegal (May 24, 2017)

Surge Donut said:


> Aren't all injuries on Australian roads already covered by compulsory third party insurance. If you get injured as a passenger or pedestrian you'll be covered. Why would you sue if they are already getting compensation?





Paul Collins said:


> And how do you know that insurance is correct? So you give him a $10, he crashes and you lose two legs. You will not sue? You do not seem to know the extreme risk you are putting yourself and the driver in. Quite stupid indeed in my opinion.


As a passenger you will be able to claim damages if you were injured in a vehicle that has no CTP insurance or the CTP insurer is able to withdraw their insurance obligations. You would lodge a claim against the Nominal Defendant government insurance scheme - so in fact you would be suing what is known as the Nominal Defendant.

The ND is paid through a levy in all our CTP premiums for people injured by uninsured drivers or unidentifiable drivers (unregistered vehicles at fault in incidents, hit & runs, or as in this discussion, drivers who fail to comply with their CTP insurance requirements etc)

If your claim is successful, the ND will pay your claim & the ND govt body can then seek to recover the debt from the driver of the uninsured vehicle.

So as a passenger, you will always have either a CTP insurer or the ND to make a claim against if you are injured in a traffic incident.


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## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

BrisLegal said:


> As a passenger you will be able to claim damages if you were injured in a vehicle that has no CTP insurance or the CTP insurer is able to withdraw their insurance obligations. You would lodge a claim against the Nominal Defendant government insurance scheme - so in fact you would be suing what is known as the Nominal Defendant.
> 
> The ND is paid through a levy in all our CTP premiums for people injured by uninsured drivers or unidentifiable drivers (unregistered vehicles at fault in incidents, hit & runs, or as in this discussion, drivers who fail to comply with their CTP insurance requirements etc)
> 
> ...


And the uninsured driver, doing a cash job where the CTP is not covered, is sued. Got it.


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## acme (Dec 7, 2016)

CGU? not the best track record in paying claims.


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## Waingro (Aug 29, 2016)

Had a guy ask me the other night to go off the app for a cashie. I told him there is no go...


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