# HERES HOW MUCH YOU CAN REALLY MAKE



## YouWishYouKnewMe (May 26, 2015)

Easy tool for any fool to calculate actual earnings irs deductions in use

Cost of driving .55/mile
40 hrs a week 1000 miles paid 2000 total miles a week 

1.00/mile $1000 gross
1000 mins $180 gross
Uber cut minus $236

Earnings before expenses
$944

.55 x 2000 miles = $1100

Omg you're already in the negative so you 

Made $0 / hr and lost money 

Just add your insurance cost per week
Car payment per week 
Red bulls coffee etc
Water

You get the idea you have $0 tax liability cz you made nothing haha

So stop Uber x no surge rides so you can break even and meet great drunk people and clean up after then

Please upload pay statement if you are challenging the math otherwise get a job at mc Donald s and call it a day 

Good day


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## GDB (Feb 22, 2015)

From the web...

Uber's CEO, Travis Kalanick has actually stated that his goal is to make Uber cheaper than owning a car some day. And so far, he's following through on that promise. *Uber's fares have been slashed no less than three times in major markets over the past year, which has been tough on drivers*, but is great for passengers. The cost of an Uber is now cheaper than ever and I often hear remarks from passengers like, "It's only $4, might as well take an Uber."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/harrycampbell/2015/06/09/have-we-become-too-dependent-on-uber/

So, why do you still drive for Uber?

Let me translate; Über will cost you more to own/operate your vehicle than what you will be making driving for Über.


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## Derp Derp (Apr 26, 2015)

FYI, the .55 a mile is supposed to include car payments and insurance. It's the IRS estimate of the full cost of driving/owning/maintaining a vehicle divided per mile for the lifespan of the vehicle.

I have always wondered about that number, since the span of cars on the road have such a wide variance in drivable miles and the cost of repair/insurance over those miles. Not to mention that it's a nationwide number in a country where gas prices can vary by a half-dollar or more state to state. It's a pretty crude estimate.

It is, however, a conveniently high number for complaining about Uber rates (which I support).



YouWishYouKnewMe said:


> Easy tool for any fool to calculate actual earnings irs deductions in use
> 
> Cost of driving .55/mile
> 40 hrs a week 1000 miles paid 2000 total miles a week
> ...


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## ecmic (Apr 16, 2015)

Allen Rubinstein said:


> FYI, the .55 a mile is supposed to include car payments and insurance. It's the IRS estimate of the full cost of driving/owning/maintaining a vehicle divided per mile for the lifespan of the vehicle.
> 
> I have always wondered about that number, since the span of cars on the road have such a wide variance in drivable miles and the cost of repair/insurance over those miles. Not to mention that it's a nationwide number in a country where gas prices can vary by a half-dollar or more state to state. It's a pretty crude estimate.
> 
> It is, however, a conveniently high number for complaining about Uber rates (which I support).


Id guess that if a driver can't operate his UberX vehicle for, let's say 40 cents a mile or less, he's obviously driving the wrong vehicle. It'd be akin to a carpenter arriving on site with only a screwdriver, and then complaining it does a really bad job hammering nails.

I'd also guess that in large cities, a little market research and preplanning would be able to drop deadhead miles a little below the 50% mark. Getting them down to even 45% would make a big difference.


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## Derp Derp (Apr 26, 2015)

I'm pretty much banking on my 2004 Honda Civic EX still having a long life ahead of it at 133,000 miles and continuing to have at least 30 mpg. Of course the stop and start city streets mileage throws that all to hell, I'm aware, and my insurance is ****ed until a few tickets time out. Ah well.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

Anyone that states there driving for .25 cents a mile is mistaken. All they are taking into consideration is gas and thier immediate maintenance. There are so many other costs. Ever mile you drive your car is depreciating. Tires, struts, oil changes. Transmission fluid change. Ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings. Brakes. Car washes. Insurance. Get in an accident while driving UBER and see what happens to your rates. See threads on real life experiences. Plus when your driving all these miles you are more likely to have an accident. UBER miles are tougher on your car than regular driving. Constant stop and go (brakes & rotors). Mostly city driving where the roads are not that great (suspension and wheel alignments and balancing). Not to mention 20 , 30 people a day getting into and out of your car (interior wear). Alot of people are just cashing out the value of thier car. Now if you never do maintenance and run your car down the value of your car will be near zero. Everyone has a unique reason why they are the one making money but they are just trying to justify to themself why they do it. New drivers don't find this out until a couple of months. This is why UBER needs to constantly get new drivers. The churn rate is high. 

Wish everyone a good Thanksgiving and be safe.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> Anyone that states there driving for .25 cents a mile is mistaken. All they are taking into consideration is gas and thier immediate maintenance. There are so many other costs. Ever mile you drive your car is depreciating. Tires, struts, oil changes. Transmission fluid change. Ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings. Brakes. Car washes. Insurance. Get in an accident while driving UBER and see what happens to your rates. See threads on real life experiences. Plus when your driving all these miles you are more likely to have an accident. UBER miles are tougher on your car than regular driving. Constant stop and go (brakes & rotors). Mostly city driving where the roads are not that great (suspension and wheel alignments and balancing). Not to mention 20 , 30 people a day getting into and out of your car (interior wear). Alot of people are just cashing out the value of thier car. Now if you never do maintenance and run your car down the value of your car will be near zero. Everyone has a unique reason why they are the one making money but they are just trying to justify to themself why they do it. New drivers don't find this out until a couple of months. This is why UBER needs to constantly get new drivers. The churn rate is high.
> 
> Wish everyone a good Thanksgiving and be safe.


This is what 7 months, 23k miles, and roughly 1100 hours in the Boston Market looks like. Vehicle expenses average $0.27/mile. I have replaced tires and at this point even if I added a huge repair around $2k, my per mile would increase less than a dime. The IRS figure is based on new vehicles and encompasses all vehicle types which leads to this false accounting by drivers ALL THE DAMN TIME. Calculate your own expenses, 99.9% of drivers will come in way below the $0.575/mile deduction. BUT, it is a good thing it is that high because that means less of your income will be taxed. Note:

Depreciation is calculated by taking the value of my van when purchased and subtracting the current value with all miles added.
Gross is my receipts from Uber and Lyft
Net Income is Gross minus all costs that are attributed to TNC only. I do not deduct things like excise tax, phone bill, etc in this figure because I have those exact same costs with or without TNC work. 
Taxable income is the amount of my Gross the IRS will tax. Calculated by deducting mileage and then any business expenses not covered by the mileage deduction. Examples include cell phone costs, bottled water, promo materials, etc.
As you can see, I gross roughly $27/hour, Net about $21/hour, and am taxed on about $15/hour. If you think this is not the right way to assess your business, I'm happy to hear constructive criticism. But this is why every driver needs to track their own expenses rather than using a One-Size-Fits-All figure which doesn't fit all.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I should also point out I have an XL/Plus van and that I have 763 completed Uber trips and around 1150 Lyft. So obviously my experience isn't directly in line with what an UberX-only driver in Boston may experience. I can tell you I have no Uber deposits over $1000, but the majority of my Lyft deposits are over that mark.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

YouWishYouKnewMe said:


> Easy tool for any fool to calculate actual earnings irs deductions in use
> 
> Cost of driving .55/mile
> 40 hrs a week 1000 miles paid 2000 total miles a week
> ...


Why don't you upload your pay statement that shows that you've driven 1000 miles paid while being online for only 40 hours? If you drive 2000 miles in a 40 hour week (paid and deadhead), you'd be averaging 50 miles every hour you're online. Sounds like a ton of highway miles and low number of trips. How many trips do you take in your 40 hours? According to your math, you're driving 25 miles per hour paid to make $1000 per week. I'm not disparaging you - it sucks not having a base fare in LA. So why post this in an advice forum? Take it to the LA forum and complain there. If your dead miles are equal to your paid miles, it looks like you have some strategy to work out.

So let's start from your $944 net pay and whittle away at the expenses. It's easy to take the 55 cents per mile deduction (it's really $0.575, or $1150 per 2000 miles). But what is your cost? Average gas price in L.A. is $2.60. At a modest 25 mpg (driving 50 miles every hour means you're probably on the highway getting pretty good mileage), you'd be spending about $208 in gas. That leaves you $736.

A Jiffy Lube oil change (basic service w/fleet discount) is $28. Divide that by 4.25 and the $736 becomes $729. Need new tires every six months? At $400 installed for 50,000 mile tires at Wal Mart, the $729 becomes $714. Brakes? I get mine at Autozone for around $60/pair, lifetime warranty. Autozone replaces for free when worn. Same for my $100 battery - each of which last about two years, both some of the easiest things to replace on a car. $712 net, now. Car payment - $180/month. Big hit. $712 becomes $670. Sure there are other expenses. I'm not saying that the LA market sucks for Uber drivers, it does. But your real expenses don't really come close to the deduction the IRS lets you take and you get to keep the difference! If you're still in negative territory, you're driving the wrong car!

I'm still trying to get over how you put 2000 miles on your car in just 40 hours a week. I put on 1,000 miles a week for daily commute to my day job, heavy Ubering on the weekends - deadhead and paid.

2006 Saturn Ion 3, 24 mpg, nice leather interior, 4.83 rating.

Don't need a Benz for UberX, folks.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I found that very suspect, too. I drive 40 hours a week and barely crack 1000 total miles, paid or unpaid. And I have to commute 20 miles each way into city 3 days a week.


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## Joe Falcone (Oct 5, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> I should also point out I have an XL/Plus van and that I have 763 completed Uber trips and around 1150 Lyft. So obviously my experience isn't directly in line with what an UberX-only driver in Boston may experience. I can tell you I have no Uber deposits over $1000, but the majority of my Lyft deposits are over that mark.


Dude, how many hours a week do you drive ? Are we talking mostly all surge times here?


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Nope. In car 40 hours-ish. Online at home (not driving, but available if the rare request comes in) between 10-15 hours. Mon thru Thu online at home 7am-12pm. go to city from 2pm-11pm Thu, 1pm-3am Fri and every other Sat. If I'm not at 50 hours each week I turn app on Sat/Sun additional hours at home to get the bonus.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

What's funny is the OP's still driving.


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## texasm203 (Oct 27, 2015)

Coachman said:


> What's funny is the OP's still driving.


OP is probably a cabby or just generally pissed off at Uber. Why can't we all just get along? And why do the mods allow this kind of crap in the forum?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

JimS said:


> If you drive 2000 miles in a 40 hour week (paid and deadhead), you'd be averaging 50 miles every hour you're online. Sounds like a ton of highway miles and low number of trips.


Those numbers are strange. If accurate, it would be an example of horribly inefficient use of car and driver on Uber's part.

OP does need to realize if they take the .57/mile, that is all the deductions they get.



texasm203 said:


> OP is probably a cabby


Unlikely. Sounds like many an Uber driver, not every Uber driver, but nothing extraordinary either.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Typical Anti-Uber-But-I-Still-Drive-And-You-Don't-Know-Math rant. He posts in an _advice_ forum, asking others to post their pay, but doesn't himself. Sigh. The numbers in the OP also don't account for any surge.

The $0.575 deduction is the only deductions you get _for your car._ Other deductions, like your cell phone bill, what you pay Travis, business luncheons, etc., not related specifically to your car are deductible in addition to the standard.

I'm no Uber Shrill - I know TK is screwing drivers in the Metropolis' he's invaded. But it's hardly as bad as the OP makes it out to be.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

YouWishYouKnewMe said:


> Easy tool for any fool to calculate actual earnings irs deductions in use
> 
> Cost of driving .55/mile
> 40 hrs a week 1000 miles paid 2000 total miles a week
> ...


Too simplistic, and as others have noted your numbers are kind of wonky. Here are some additional considerations for your "Cliff Notes" version of "Uber Math for Dummies":

In my experience, if you are putting on more than 1 mile total per dollar grossed (commuting to/from beginning hotspots from home, paid miles, and deadhead miles during the "work day"), then you are doing something wrong. So I would say $1000 gross should equal roughly 1000 total Uber-induced miles, not 2000. I understand that you could put 2000 miles on if you NEVER get any surge fares, only work at the "X" rate and put an equal number of deadhead to paid miles on your car, but that's kind of a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

If you are running UberPlus then surely you get some Plus calls, you are not running 100% "X" only. In my case I am running "XL" so that helps boost up the average gross on at least some of my calls.

Surge calls help boost the average, of course.

Next, I know that tips are next to nothing in general with Uber but they do happen, and with Lyft, more so, so those little gems need to be added into the equation.

Plus, the Power Bonus with Lyft driving is another way to get the average up, as Boston Barry noted.

More of a "park and wait for the next ping" strategy much of the time helps me to get the average up by keeping the deadhead miles to a minimum and keeping my time free for more rides more quickly. I tend to deadhead less with Uber than with taxi driving since Uber has more calls that come in more frequently to a more spread-out area in general than taxi dispatched calls. Of course, even with Uber, there are times when you definitely have to re-position yourself.

There are multiple threads on this forum beating multiple dead horses in terms of actual cost per mile to operate a car for Uber, both from the ill-informed standpoint of "gas and the occasional added oil change only" to the full IRS deduction. Obviously the truth lies somewhere in the middle for most people. In my case I figure it's around 40 cents/mi for my minivan, but that includes a little extra that I pay per mile for Metromile insurance in order to be fully legit insurance-wise in the California market, an extra expense compared to strictly personal driving with that van. Obviously someone driving an older econobox is going to most likely have a cost per mile more in the 30 cents per mile range, all costs considered, and even a couple cents less per mile if they are riding bareback in terms of insurance.

So, basically, to revisit your example, the cost part of your equation can be reduced in most cases from around $1100 to something more like $280 to $400. That doesn't make this a great gig in my definition but it's a little less bleak than the picture you are presenting. That differential, based on your hypothetical 40 hours, could mean the difference between losing money and making something like $15/hr or so, after expenses but before taxes.

But the 57.5 cents/mi IRS allowance means that when you are running this low a level of income you can most likely offset most of it on your taxes with the standard mileage deduction. So most likely little taxable income from Ubering, at least in my case. Not that that is anything to brag about.

Last year my stated gross on my Schedule C from taxi driving on my 1040 was $86k, and only $22.5k after allowed expenses. My Uber gross on my Schedule C for that same year was $4k and only $1k after allowed expenses. So I only had to pay the 15.3% self-employment tax on 23.5k. I did not have to pay any income tax since what little taxable amount was left went into my IRA and SEP investments, which will hopefully be taxed at a lower rate when I pull it out down the road.


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## yolo25 (Aug 31, 2015)

YouWishYouKnewMe said:


> Easy tool for any fool to calculate actual earnings irs deductions in use
> 
> Cost of driving .55/mile
> 40 hrs a week 1000 miles paid 2000 total miles a week
> ...


Don't forget tips are included in the fare.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

BostonBarry - What is your yearly maintenance. You are putting over 50K miles on a year. How long do you think your vehicle will last. Expenses increase each year when your putting on that many miles. Ride share miles are hard on a vehicle. 

Do you count the hours waiting at home for a ping in your hourly rate or don't those hours count. Your working 60 to 70 hours if you count them. 

I don't see the value in doing it.

I work one day a month on a weekend for 10 hours and take in between 150 to 250 before expenses. Moving to another state and just keeping the account active. At $1.00 a mile and Uber taking 20% there isn't much profit. Any short rides are a lose. $3.20.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> Ride share miles are hard on a vehicle.


I've seen this comment numerous times. In what way is a ride share mile harder on my vehicle than any other mile I put on it?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

BostonBarry said:


> This is what 7 months, 23k miles, and roughly 1100 hours in the Boston Market looks like. Vehicle expenses average $0.27/mile. I have replaced tires and at this point even if I added a huge repair around $2k, my per mile would increase less than a dime. The IRS figure is based on new vehicles and encompasses all vehicle types which leads to this false accounting by drivers ALL THE DAMN TIME. Calculate your own expenses, 99.9% of drivers will come in way below the $0.575/mile deduction. BUT, it is a good thing it is that high because that means less of your income will be taxed. Note:
> 
> Depreciation is calculated by taking the value of my van when purchased and subtracting the current value with all miles added.
> Gross is my receipts from Uber and Lyft
> ...


I notice you just have mileage written for each day--I hope you're keeping track of the actual odometer readings. That's much easier to defend to the IRS and is what they want to see.

I have a similar spreadsheet and have since 1991 (Microsoft Works back then!) I have been driving for work and self employed in some capacity since then.

In the car I write everything on a log and transfer it to the spreadsheet e ery week or so. The formulas are all in place to automatically figure everything out.

I have a fairly new car. Did not buy it to uber though.

In Houston I have seen since about April my actual profit per hour (I track that too) go down and down. My vehicle expense is about 33 cents per mile. That's all miles, whether ubering or not. I also deliver pizza and commute to a "real" job. I deduct medical visits, drive to charity work, and from one job to the other mileage as well. Those are not the same rate but it all adds up.

I'm also doing uber less as the profitable times to work are much scarcer now.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

I can't believe you would ask that question if you drove. You car doors opened and closed 40 times in a day. People sliding in and out of your car 40 times a day. Tough on interior. Stop and go driving is harder on a car. Brakes, rotors , engine and transmission. Ever hear highway miles are easier on a car. City streets are more pot holed filled than highways. Tougher on suspension and wheel alignment. 

When you see a comment a number of times maybe there is something to it. If you don't believe it ask someone who has been doing it for a while.Now if you really don't care about your car it won't matter. Then your just cashing out the value of your car weekly.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> BostonBarry - What is your yearly maintenance. You are putting over 50K miles on a year. How long do you think your vehicle will last. Expenses increase each year when your putting on that many miles. Ride share miles are hard on a vehicle.
> 
> Do you count the hours waiting at home for a ping in your hourly rate or don't those hours count. Your working 60 to 70 hours if you count them.
> 
> ...


At current rate I'm closer to 40k annual miles, not 50k. I account for maintenance as it happens. Yes I have funds set aside for up to $2k in maintenence/repair. Anything over that the van gets traded/scrapped as I only paid $7k for it. If that happened TODAY, the loss would be $7k (not accounting for what I would recover from trade/salvage) over 23k miles, about $0.30/mile bringing my total expense to $0.57/mile and my profit down to $16k and roughly $14.50/hour. I don't account for future expenses because there is no telling what they might be, whether I'll be able to perform the work myself, who offers me the best labor rate or what price I find the parts for.

I use an app to clock in and clock out when I get into the van with driver mode on. The 40 hours is the amount of time my butt is in the seat. When online at home I am doing anything and everything I would do if offline. Netflix, chores, paperwork...etc. When the rare request comes in at home I run out, clock in and give the ride and come back home to clock out unless I get taken far away.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> I notice you just have mileage written for each day--I hope you're keeping track of the actual odometer readings. That's much easier to defend to the IRS and is what they want to see.
> 
> I have a similar spreadsheet and have since 1991 (Microsoft Works back then!) I have been driving for work and self employed in some capacity since then.
> 
> ...


I have a written log bought from Staples for odometer readings. The sheet I shared is for my own purposes, I have others for tax purposes and income reporting purposes.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I drive mostly highway miles when I Uber. I don't do stop and go driving. I don't drive in pot holes. A passenger sitting in my back seat is no more tough on my interior than me sitting in the driver seat. Doors were made for opening and closing - they don't require maintenance.

Look, when we Uber we put a lot of miles on the car, that's true. But there's no reason to pretend that Uber miles are rougher than any other miles. Unless you're driving drunks who throw up in your car. But that's not a problem of "rough miles."


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> I can't believe you would ask that question if you drove. You car doors opened and closed 40 times in a day. People sliding in and out of your car 40 times a day. Tough on interior. Stop and go driving is harder on a car. Brakes, rotors , engine and transmission. Ever hear highway miles are easier on a car. City streets are more pot holed filled than highways. Tougher on suspension and wheel alignment.
> 
> When you see a comment a number of times maybe there is something to it. If you don't believe it ask someone who has been doing it for a while.Now if you really don't care about your car it won't matter. Then your just cashing out the value of your car weekly.


Yes, wear and tear can be elevated in TNC work, but by how much and at what point it causes a problem are just as variable as the other figures. I never bought this van with the intent of keeping it for more than 3 years. Considering the shape it is in and how well it runs I expect at least another 100k before major repair or junking.


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## yolo25 (Aug 31, 2015)

Because


Coachman said:


> I've seen this comment numerous times. In what way is a ride share mile harder on my vehicle than any other mile I put on it?


There can be up to 4 people in a ride share car. Now imagine if every pax was obese, it's kinda common sense.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

yolo25 said:


> There can be up to 4 people in a ride share car. Now imagine if every pax was obese, it's kinda common sense.


Sure, but if my experience is representative, that's about 2% of our driving.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

you go into your fantasy world. you dont hit pot holes. you must pick people up on the highway and just keep driving. you keep saying whatever you like but you would be the only one who says uber miles are like regular driving. like i say people will justify doing what they do by saying whatever they have to to support thier decision.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> you go into your fantasy world. you dont hit pot holes. you must pick people up on the highway and just keep driving. you keep saying whatever you like but you would be the only one who says uber miles are like regular driving. like i say people will justify doing what they do by saying whatever they have to to support thier decision.


Fine. Tell me about all that door maintenance you've had to do.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

you know nothing about cars. there are motors for your electric windows or do you have manaul roll down windows. and there is no wear on interior as 20 people are slidding in an out of your car. anybody else believe what coachman says. i guarentee you you are young because your talking nonsense.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Fine. Tell me about all that door maintenance you've had to do.


My minivan has electric side doors. $300 a pop per side to replace. Replaced them an average of every 3 months due to pax, especially drunk ones, especially millennial drunk ones, insisting on manually forcing the door open or closed despite me begging them to not touch it. Thereby stripping the gears. If you don't replace the broken motors, the door is much harder to manually open/close than if it was manual to begin with due to the drag of the chain. That makes pax, especially drunk pax, angry, resulting in lower ratings/tips. Finally got tired of that and bought a new van without auto side doors. Now pax are angry that the side doors are manual, most of them expect them to be automatic. To solve the problem I try and jump out and open/close the doors for everyone, but sometimes you just can not do that.

Another example is that if I pick up 40 pax today I am going to be rolling down/up the electric windows at least 40 times today, and they were not designed for that kind of constant use. I regularly have to replace them at about $175 a pop per side, about on average about once per year.

Starter motors get lots of abuse from TNC or taxi driving. In a typical day of driving I might have to start my car about 100-150 times. Starter motors are not cheap.

I could go on and on but that is the nature of the business. Sounds like you don't really know the business.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberEddie2015 said:


> you go into your fantasy world. you dont hit pot holes. you must pick people up on the highway and just keep driving. you keep saying whatever you like but you would be the only one who says uber miles are like regular driving. like i say people will justify doing what they do by saying whatever they have to to support thier decision.


He obviously doesn't drive in Houston.

In regular driving you rarely go areas you don't know. You know where the potholes and dangerous intersections are. Even with my pizza delivery job I know that for my area. But with TNC you're all over the place in unfamiliar territory. So it's rougher on the car.

I used to have a,van I delivered papers in to stores. One day the door handle broke off in my hand. And then the hinge broke.

So yeah, opening and closing doors a lot does cause problems.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

just another newbee that has the secret formula that nobody else knows about. funny thing is that after a while he will be writing the same things we are and some newbee will be arguing with him about how they have the secret formula. How do I know. I was him once. I still knew ride share miles were hard miles but thought I had it all figured out. Be safe everyone.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I've put over a million miles on vehicles during my lifetime and I've never had a door break. Not the hinges. Not the handles. Whenever you put a fancy electric motor on something, whether it's a window or a sliding door, it's bound to break eventually. I keep my AC regulated and the passengers have no need to constantly roll my windows up and down.



hanging in there said:


> Starter motors get lots of abuse from TNC or taxi driving. In a typical day of driving I might have to start my car about 100-150 times.


What kind of crazy driving do you do to restart your car 150 times a day? If you work a 10 hour day that's once every four minutes. Maybe you and I are doing different jobs?


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

10-12 hrs (including commute) I can make $100 GROSS
-$15-20 gas
-$something for car maintenance
-$something for bringing the death of my car closer and closer and requiring the purchase of another car
-$something for insurance
-$something for a phone/service (probably acclimated at this point to where I'd continue Uber or not, but is an expense
-$something for miscellaneous commuting tolls
=$60? give or take NET ($6/hr!)

Uber was an awesome rehab job after my heart surgeries, but at most it's only worth it to me as a random part-time way to make a few $ at odd convenient times once I can get other, better paying jobs.

I have 3 new jobs lined up, 1 with an interview next week after the holiday.


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## BostonTaxiDriver (Nov 23, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I've seen this comment numerous times. In what way is a ride share mile harder on my vehicle than any other mile I put on it?


Lots of excess weight from 3-4 pax at times, plus possibly luggage, has to wear down a car more than the same city miles just delivering pizza.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I've put over a million miles on vehicles during my lifetime and I've never had a door break. Not the hinges. Not the handles. Whenever you put a fancy electric motor on something, whether it's a window or a sliding door, it's bound to break eventually. I keep my AC regulated and the passengers have no need to constantly roll my windows up and down.
> 
> What kind of crazy driving do you do to restart your car 150 times a day? If you work a 10 hour day that's once every four minutes. Maybe you and I are doing different jobs?


So you are saying that when you pull up to the pax location you don't roll your window down to verify that you have the right pax before they start trying to get in? When I load or unload pax I do my best to get out and open the door for them, not just to be courteous and professional or to keep my star rating up, and not just because of the manual doors, but also because it's a good way to keep trouble out of your car before it gets in. Pax with open containers, red cups of beer or booze, overly intoxicated or ready-to-puke pax, too many pax... it's a good idea to be a gatekeeper. So when I get out of the car, I have found that it's a good habit to roll down the windows EVEN if it's raining just to make sure that I don't accidentally lock myself out. Dozens of times per day, the odds are that will happen at some point, you can make fun of me if you want. I've accidentally hit the door lock button more than once while exiting my car. Plus, when I am working the bar crowd I have learned that I need to keep the windows at least partially open to keep the fresh air flowing in the car in order to minimize the chances of one of them puking, it's an old cabbie trick.

Ten hour day? I work on average much longer than that.

Restarting the car? Are you telling me that you get back-to-back pings, no waiting? Or that you idle your car for 10-15 minutes between pings? Or if a pax takes several minutes to come out, you sit there and idle for several minutes? The truth is, as a taxi driver I restart my car more often if I am inching forward in a cab line-up at a hotel, etc., compared to Uber driving, so you have a point there. But even in a full day of Ubering I will probably be restarting the car 75-100 times per day.

But I forgot, you just drive the freeways and when you need to load a pax, you tell them to jump in at the precise moment that you are passing under an overpass and when you need to drop them off you just tell them to open the door and then duck and roll, somewhere close to their destination, and then they can walk the streets to get home. But wait, even if they are jumping into your car from an overpass you would need to at least open the window for them to crawl in once they land on your roof. Hopefully you have a sturdy roof, otherwise we are talking about money spent for body damage to the roof which would offset whatever savings you get from the non-stop freeway driving.

Million miles? How many of those miles was driven for livery? A typical full time livery driver will put on a million miles in about 12-15 years, not in a lifetime.

Many Uber drivers who only drive "part time" think they are immune from the effects of the "hard miles" suffered by the full timers, but it's the same severe stress that they are subjecting their cars to, only at a slower rate.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Idling vs restarting is an old debate which predates TNC. Typically if I'm waiting more than 5 minutes, I'll turn it off. But mostly yes, I idle. Saves the starter motor and any other wear and tear from turning over. Keeps the AC and heat going as well so I can be comfortable. Avg fuel cost for me is $0.14/mile (I top off before each shift and fill at end of shift so I know exactly how much fuel I'm using for TNC) so the idling isn't breaking my bank. 100-150 times a day? Way out of proportion. Hell, I don't have more than 25 rides most days so in all honesty if I were turning off immediately that would be my top number, 25 times in 14 hours. And I do get back to back pings so more likely I turn the van off 5 times in 14 hours.

I only roll window down in high risk scenarios. Like pulling up to busy events or closing bars. If I get a request from a residential address or office between 6am and 6pm, there really is almost no chance the person is getting in the wrong car, has an open container, ready to puke, or will get pissy when I ask their name and have to tell them I'm not their ride. 


simpsonsverytall said:


> 10-12 hrs (including commute) I can make $100 GROSS
> -$15-20 gas
> -$something for car maintenance
> -$something for bringing the death of my car closer and closer and requiring the purchase of another car
> ...


I always love people saying they make nothing or close to it and then their accounting of their expenses is "something".



BostonTaxiDriver said:


> Lots of excess weight from 3-4 pax at times, plus possibly luggage, has to wear down a car more than the same city miles just delivering pizza.





UberEddie2015 said:


> you know nothing about cars. there are motors for your electric windows or do you have manaul roll down windows. and there is no wear on interior as 20 people are slidding in an out of your car. anybody else believe what coachman says. i guarentee you you are young because your talking nonsense.


I acknowledge the logic is sound here, but my history shows an abundance of 1 or 2 riders. Even though I'm plus only 1 in 7 of my requests have more than 1 passenger.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Allen Rubinstein said:


> FYI, the .55 a mile is supposed to include car payments and insurance. It's the IRS estimate of the full cost of driving/owning/maintaining a vehicle divided per mile for the lifespan of the vehicle.
> 
> I have always wondered about that number, since the span of cars on the road have such a wide variance in drivable miles and the cost of repair/insurance over those miles. Not to mention that it's a nationwide number in a country where gas prices can vary by a half-dollar or more state to state. It's a pretty crude estimate.
> 
> It is, however, a conveniently high number for complaining about Uber rates (which I support).


Sadly, the IRS-allowed rate of $.555/mile is quite low for nearly every car on the road.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

It is $0.575, and that is over double my own expenses.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

I am not saying that nobody is making money. But most under estimate thier maintenance. Most only count maintenance expenses that occur regularly. I have never heard one driver factor in things like timing chain, plugs, ignition coils, struts, wheel bearings, hubs, wheel alignments, tie rods, axles. Everything has an average life. If you drive alot of miles you will replace them all or you just neglect it. that list doesn't include reg things like brakes, rotors, wipers, belts, light bulds, air filters, oil changes, transmission fluid change & filter, batteries, radiator flush, car washes. And depreciation. More like .35 to .40 a mile. And have an accident and your out $1000 with Uber or $2000 with Lyft. Thats if you have collision at all. I guess I could keep my maintenance down by not doing that stuff but thats why my cars last a long time. 

Boston Barry you put on alot of miles. Do you not incur these expenses or is the vehicle a throw away after 3 or 4 years. your putting over 200k miles in 4 years.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I agree that many people under estimate what this work costs. I also would say that many people over-estimate what it costs, especially those that don't run their own numbers but instead think the IRS or AAA figures represent what they are losing. I keep my costs low by performing whatever work I can myself. Fluid changes, cleaning, light bulbs and air filters, etc. Whatever I cannot do myself I shop around for the best labor rate and compare with reviews of the work done there. When possible I buy parts myself rather than paying retail, or at the very least use one of the partner discounts Uber and Lyft provide at stores such as Advanced Auto, etc.

Also, while I didn't specifically buy my minivan with TNC in mind, it has worked out to be an excellent choice. Access to XL/Plus fares is beneficial, though those rides aren't the majority by far. The minivan I bought this year had 75,000 miles on it as a 2008 so it was about 30k miles under the expected usage. Despite that, I got it for a great price at $800 below book value. Given it's current performance and the regularity with which I maintain it, I fully expect to break the 200k mile mark without a major repair. I wouldn't call it a throw-away, but I never intended to own it for more than 3 years and it has paid for itself 3 times over so whatever earnings I get out of it going forward are more than enough for me to consider this a success.

However, I realize the potential for those costs are there. That is why I look at worst case scenarios. If I have to spend my $2k on repair or deductible - boom my cost per mile goes up a dime to $0.37, still very profitable. If the repair is above the $2k mark and I decide to trade or salvage it I will likely get at least $1500 since the body and windows are in excellent shape and the air bags are intact (big ticket items for salvage). That means I've lost $5500 ($7,000 purchase minus the $1500 salvage or trade) over 23k miles which comes to $0.24/mile bringing my total expenses to about $0.48/mile, still under the IRS figure. And that is if I had a major failure TODAY. Each mile I put on the car spreads that cost out further. If I make it to 150k miles without major repair (fingers crossed) and get NOTHING for the van I've lost $7k to earn about $75k and my per mile loss on the purchase of the vehicle would be $0.05/mile on top of my average $0.27/mile for a total of $0.32/mile in expenses

I realize you aren't trying to say that people don't make money, and I'm not trying to say everyone is making lots of money. I'm just trying to point out there is A WAY to maximize your profits and do fairly well at this. If I was using a 2014 with a V8 and only 4 seats and did all my services at the dealer, you can bet I would be a very unhappy little boy.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

When it is all calculated at best we are making a couple of dollars over min wage.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Uh huh. Except my data shows a very different story. So must be careful with generalizations like using the word "we".


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> I always love people saying they make nothing or close to it and then their accounting of their expenses is "something".


missing the point BostonBarry,
Alright take the $100 in Gross earnings and subract the $20.38 I put in gas for that day (per receipt). 
Now we are working with 79.62. That's 20% of the Gross earnings.
That is already weak ($8/hr)
If you want to blow a cerebral artery trying to calculate the other stuff before you do your taxes, fine.
whether you come up with $1 or $20 per day YOU ARE STARTING OFF WITH 79.62.
Sorry man, that's already next to nothing and then you are subtracting some more expenses (whether you estimate w/ a "something" or you figure that stuff out to the nearest dime).
If you aren't GROSSING at least 150-200 on a consistent basis in a full 8-12hr day of work, then gas and expenses are going to knock you down to reality.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I criticized your something because the few figures you share are neither in line with mine or those of drivers I've seen figures for in person on their app, so I know they are legit rather than fabricated. For instance, you say you are spending $20 on gas for 10 hours. I barely get to $20 in gas at 14 hours in a 15 mpg minivan. And for that 14 hours I gross (post commission and pre expenses) over $300. Fuel generally works out to 10% of my gross fares. If you are truly only grossing $100 then you need to examine where you're trying to get riders, because the disparity between your hourly and mine cannot possibly be explained by rates or saturation.

Most of my expenses aren't tracked for tax purposes. They are tracked because if you are going to run a business you need to know where every dime is going and how to maximize your profit. All the vehicle related expenses will be accounted for in the IRS standard mileage deduction when tax time comes. There are very few things I need to keep track of on top of that for the purposes of tax deduction. Those are: cell phone, amenities, tolls, parking, and marketing materials.

When doing TNC a person has 2 choices, as I see it. Own your business, or join the group who just wants to repeat the same old tired unfounded complaints. When I see those complaints I'll respond appropriately, pointing out how they are false by using data and facts.

I stopped working in a restaurant where I made $20/hour and couldn't make ends meet often. I've done this for 7 months, tracked every dime, and am clearly making more than I did before. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to pay the $1200 rent, $300 utilities, $200 insurance, $700 food, and $200 phone bill each month.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

BostonBarry said:


> Idling vs restarting is an old debate which predates TNC. Typically if I'm waiting more than 5 minutes, I'll turn it off. But mostly yes, I idle. Saves the starter motor and any other wear and tear from turning over. Keeps the AC and heat going as well so I can be comfortable.


This is an honest question, not trying to challenge you, just asking. I've always heard that the financial break-even point to where it is best to turn off the car rather than idle is at around 1 minute, not five.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

UberX drivers cannot use the .575 Per mile deduction. That deduction is intended for people that pay ALL the expenses on their car. Since Uber pays for the commercial insurance, UberX drivers are NOT paying all of the expenses ontheir car. If you use the mileage deduction, you will be taking a deduction for an expense that somebody else is paying for you


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> UberX drivers cannot use the .575 Per mile deduction. That deduction is intended for people that pay ALL the expenses on their car. Since Uber pays for the commercial insurance, UberX drivers are NOT paying all of the expenses ontheir car. If you use the mileage deduction, you will be taking a deduction for an expense that somebody else is paying for you


This is not a minor point. It's a huge point. If you're going to make a claim like this I'd really suggest you back it up with a link to some kind of official source... like the IRS or a reputable tax company.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Coachman said:


> This is not a minor point. It's a huge point. If you're going to make a claim like this I'd really suggest you back it up with a link to some kind of official source... like the IRS or a reputable tax company.


 It doesn't sound right to me. Uber pays the commercial insurance to protect themselves. They don't insure our vehicles(we pay for that). We may be temporary co-insureds but the policy is for their benefit. Also, if it was for our benefit Uber would charge us for it otherwise they would put the IC status in jeopardy by paying our business expenses.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

I don't need to post a link. It's common sense. It's the basic definition of "deduction" which is the reduction of taxable income due to an expense. If you did not incur an expense, you certainly cannot deduct it.

DO NOT TAKE A GUY ON THE INTERNETS ADVICE. CONSULT YOUR ACCOUNTANT. Just be clear to the accountant that Uber is paying your commercial insurance. 

Initially, when UberX started, they were not paying for insurance, then a standard mileage deduction was ok. When Uber starting paying part of your expenses to operate, then the standard mileage deduction no longer applies. It would be no different if your employer was paying you mileage to operate your car or reimbursing gas. Once they do that... no standard mileage deduction.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> It doesn't sound right to me. Uber pays the commercial insurance to protect themselves. They don't insure our vehicles(we pay for that). We may be temporary co-insureds but the policy is for their benefit. Also, if it was for our benefit Uber would charge us for it otherwise they would put the IC status in jeopardy by paying our business expenses.


Uber most certainly is offering a benefit to you by paying for your commercial insurance while you are operating your car commercially. Commercial insurance costs at minimum $4000 to $5000 per year per vehicle.

What YOU pay for is insurance to operate your vehicle for personal use, Uber's insurance covers you while your app is on doing commercial work.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I don't need to post a link. It's common sense.


Okay.


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

Folks - the I.R.S. estimate of 57.5¢ per mile is not intended to be a _reimbursement_ for what they think is the _cost_ per mile.

It is a deduction. You don't pay INCOME TAX on the value of 57.5¢ per mile. Depending on your tax bracket, that 57.5¢ per mile is merely offsetting the tax burden you owe on the income you made driving your personal car for business.

Do your own math, using this number is just plain ignorant and lazy.

Example: If you intend to use your car to make $52k per year for 4 years (For Instance)

You need to allow that approximately 250,000 miles will be driven for business use. Remember, you can DEDUCT the I.R.S. value per mile for miles driven to the passenger, with the passenger, and back from dropping off the passenger. Just like a sales call - you get to DEDUCT the round trip miles.

So, you buy a $20k car and intend to drive it for 250k miles. Do the math. The car costs you 0.08 dollars per mile, not including interest on the loan. 
This car costs you $500 annually to insure. (More? Less? I don't care, plug in your own number) so over 4 years is costs $2000 to insure. Over the life of the car, divide that by a quarter million miles and you predictably get 0.008 dollars per mile for insurance.
State registration costs over 4 years, divided by that same quarter million miles.... add it up.

Maintenance costs including oil changes, tires, brakes, shocks, cabin air filters, windshield wipers, all the car wear parts you can think of, put in a cost per mile. Good tires are $100 each, but last for 80k miles. So, tires cost 0.005 dollars per mile. 
Synthetic oil change every what? 7500 miles is fair?? So divide $50 by 7500 miles and your oil changes cost 0.006 dollars per mile. 
Same with fuel, which costs many of us more than the car does. My car costs 5.5¢ a mile for diesel, and it's dropping lately.

I figure I can drive my car for about a quarter per mile unless I need a new engine or transmission. I plugged in $2000 for catastrophic maintenance costs, and reduced everything down to cost per mile as best I could forecast.

It can all be worked out to cents per mile for everything. Do the work, or use the absolutely RIDICULOUS number the I.R.S. allows you to DEDUCT from your earnings before taxing your earnings.

Bottom line people, that number is not a REIMBURSEMENT for cost of driving your car. It's a deduction. If you're in the 28% tax bracket then that 57.5¢ per mile is worth 41.4¢ off your tax burden. Stop treating it like some kind of government payment for your miles. IT IS NOT A REIMBURSEMENT for the costs of driving. It only reduces the amount of tax you owe, so it is worth only what your tax bracket determines it is worth.

I am not a tax professional, but I have used my car for business purposes my entire adult career in sales. I know what it costs to drive a car, I've driven several in my lifetime until they were completely worthless barely rolling pieces of junk. Then I bite the bullet and buy another one. I've learned from hard experience the best car to use for sales is (for me) a diesel. Mercedes 240D was the best affordable long distance car ever made. Nice interior, smooth ride, impressive for clients to see but not "too nice" as to make them wonder if you're getting rich on what they're buying. Ask any Mercedes dealer how many times they've seen a 240D with more than half a million miles on it and they will tell you literally HALF of them run that kind of distance.

I had an E Class 320D that cost me a fortune in parts replacement, including a transmission rebuild for a valve body failure. I switched to Volkswagen and have never looked back. I can confidently drive that engine a quarter million miles at 40mpg without having to replace major engine parts.

Prius is a great Uber car, but it's not big enough to suit me, and I don't think they _typically_ run as far as a diesel. Yes, there are long distance Prius stories, but I doubt half of them can run as long as a diesel can.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Uber most certainly is offering a benefit to you by paying for your commercial insurance while you are operating your car commercially. Commercial insurance costs at minimum $4000 to $5000 per year per vehicle.
> 
> What YOU pay for is insurance to operate your vehicle for personal use, Uber's insurance covers you while your app is on doing commercial work.


Uber's insurance kicks in after personal insurance or if personal insurance fails to pay. I would never be able to collect money from Uber's liability policy, it's only for their benefit. The fact that I'm driving around without commercial insurance is my business risk.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

"If you're in the 28% tax bracket then that 57.5¢ per mile is worth 41.4¢ off your tax burden."
Great post, I agree with your main points, but you might want to correct your math on this one point. This sentence should actually read:

"If you're in the 28% tax bracket then that 57.5¢ per mile is worth 16.1¢ off your tax burden."


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## Muki (Oct 15, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> I am not saying that nobody is making money. But most under estimate thier maintenance. Most only count maintenance expenses that occur regularly. I have never heard one driver factor in things like timing chain, plugs, ignition coils, struts, wheel bearings, hubs, wheel alignments, tie rods, axles. Everything has an average life. If you drive alot of miles you will replace them all or you just neglect it. that list doesn't include reg things like brakes, rotors, wipers, belts, light bulds, air filters, oil changes, transmission fluid change & filter, batteries, radiator flush, car washes.


The thing is, non-routine maintenance is wildly unpredictable. I've driven the same car since 2003. I know that there are time I don't have a major repair for a few years. Then all of a sudden out of nowhere a $1200 mechanic bill. Or sometimes one or two small ones in a year. I can only make a rough estimate what my non-scheduled maintenance has been per year as an average. I take that and divide the number by 12,000 which is the average number of miles a car puts on a year and then I get a rough idea of unscheduled maintenance per mile.

Unscheduled maintenance will be your most difficult thing to build into your cost per mile. Because two people could be driving a car of the same year, make and model and have totally different reliability experiences. On one of the forums for my vehicle I hear everything from "these cars are junk, rebuilt transmission at 50k miles!" to "I'm on 250k miles and haven't had a major problem yet!"


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> This is an honest question, not trying to challenge you, just asking. I've always heard that the financial break-even point to where it is best to turn off the car rather than idle is at around 1 minute, not five.


It may or may not be, again this would be vehicle specific. Also the consensus these days seems to be that startup consumes the same fuel as idling 10 seconds. My 5 minute "rule" is just based on comfort and preference and I mentioned it because starting one's car 100 times in 10 hours sounds ludicrous.



UberBlackDriverLA said:


> UberX drivers cannot use the .575 Per mile deduction. That deduction is intended for people that pay ALL the expenses on their car. Since Uber pays for the commercial insurance, UberX drivers are NOT paying all of the expenses ontheir car. If you use the mileage deduction, you will be taking a deduction for an expense that somebody else is paying for you


I find it interesting that you're back spouting this nonsense in yet another thread with no evidence when I've shot this argument down before. There is no such rule in the tax code. Read here:

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc510.html

and see my screenshot below for the relevant requirements. The only time your vehicle expenses are being paid by someone else enters into how you deduct vehicle expenses is when you're a *W2 EMPLOYEE* (see information near bottom of linked page). My accountant disagrees with you.



UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I don't need to post a link. It's common sense. It's the basic definition of "deduction" which is the reduction of taxable income due to an expense. If you did not incur an expense, you certainly cannot deduct it.
> 
> DO NOT TAKE A GUY ON THE INTERNETS ADVICE. CONSULT YOUR ACCOUNTANT. Just be clear to the accountant that Uber is paying your commercial insurance.
> 
> Initially, when UberX started, they were not paying for insurance, then a standard mileage deduction was ok. When Uber starting paying part of your expenses to operate, then the standard mileage deduction no longer applies. It would be no different if your employer was paying you mileage to operate your car or reimbursing gas. Once they do that... no standard mileage deduction.


Wrong again. As I said in last quote, read closely the end of the linked article where it describes how W2 EMPLOYEES can deduct mileage when reimbursed by their employer.



UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Uber most certainly is offering a benefit to you by paying for your commercial insurance while you are operating your car commercially. Commercial insurance costs at minimum $4000 to $5000 per year per vehicle.
> 
> What YOU pay for is insurance to operate your vehicle for personal use, Uber's insurance covers you while your app is on doing commercial work.


Even if your position was in any way based in fact (it very much isn't), personal insurance is a requirement for all companies providing TNC services. Therefor your personal insurance is a business expense.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Another good counter to Uberblack's argument:



> You generally can use the standard mileage rate whether or not you are reimbursed and whether or not any reimbursement is more or less than the amount figured using the standard mileage rate. See chapter 6 for more information on_reimbursements _.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

hanging in there said:


> "If you're in the 28% tax bracket then that 57.5¢ per mile is worth 41.4¢ off your tax burden."
> Great post, I agree with your main points, but you might want to correct your math on this one point. This sentence should actually read:
> 
> "If you're in the 28% tax bracket then that 57.5¢ per mile is worth 16.1¢ off your tax burden."


Actually to be more precise... due to the progressive structure of the tax brackets, if you assume that the deductions would move your tax bracket from a starting point of the top of the 28% bracket down to the bottom of the 10% bracket, then that becomes an actual tax savings of (28% + 10%)/2 = 19% average x 57.5 cents = 10.9 cents per mile, as a rough estimation.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Sadly, the IRS-allowed rate of $.555/mile is quite low for nearly every car on the road.


The actual rate, $.575 is based on a brand new vehicle in its first 5 years os heavily depreciated life. It's really high if you do the math on a good decision Uber vehicle.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

The code section on reimbursements is irrelevant because Uber is not reimbursing the commercial insurance, they are paying for it and providing it. Big difference.

We are not discussing whether personal insurance is deductible as a business expense. Once again, irrelevant.

It is your contention that you can take a deduction for an expense that a third party is providing for you. When you find that section, I will eat crow.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> I criticized your something because the few figures you share are neither in line with mine or those of drivers I've seen figures for in person on their app, so I know they are legit rather than fabricated. For instance, you say you are spending $20 on gas for 10 hours. I barely get to $20 in gas at 14 hours in a 15 mpg minivan. And for that 14 hours I gross (post commission and pre expenses) over $300. Fuel generally works out to 10% of my gross fares. If you are truly only grossing $100 then you need to examine where you're trying to get riders, because the disparity between your hourly and mine cannot possibly be explained by rates or saturation.


If you are grossing $300 than you are doing a better more efficient job than me. More power to you.

I'm grossing $100 on close to 20 rides
mon 20trips 92.42
tue 17trips 77.10
wed 20trips 125.68

I only have the stamina to do 20 or so trips before it's time to go home and sleep.

You are doing great, and that's good. It's OK if we have different results. I have some jobs lined up, so that hopefully Uber will become a part-time efficient thing, instead of what for me has been an inefficient full-time job.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Oh Barry, you and Obama would make a good team. He is winning the war against ISIS about as much as you are shooting down my argument.
> 
> The code section on reimbursements is irrelevant because Uber is not reimbursing the commercial insurance, they are paying for it and providing it. Big difference.
> 
> ...


I also showed you the qualifications for claiming the deduction. In no way, shape, or form does it say a client providing any or all of the variables the standard mileage deducton covers disqualifies you. It very specifically shows what DOES disqualify you. So I've done my homework. Until you PROVE otherwise, you're either ignorant of the truth or dedicated to spreading a lie.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

BostonBarry said:


> I also showed you the qualifications for claiming the deduction. In no way, shape, or form does it say a client providing any or all of the variables the standard mileage deducton covers disqualifies you. It very specifically shows what DOES disqualify you. So I've done my homework. Until you PROVE otherwise, you're either ignorant of the truth or dedicated to spreading a lie.


Theoretically, if Uber had a gas station that provided you with free gas, oil changes, tires and new brakes, would it still be your contention that you could claim the mileage deduction? (Legally Uber should be providing these things... but thats a different argument, haha)


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Yes, according to the rules set forth in the deduction you could still deduct. I've spent all my downtime between rides tonight trying to find one example of your theory being based in anything other than personal opinion. Every search result came back with the standard mileage deduction being available to TNC drivers. Rideshare Guy, Intuit, AccountingWeb and even Bloomberg News with a tax pro sourced in the article. Plain and simple, you are wrong and you've given me no reason to suspect you might be right.

Bloomberg: Mike Campbell, tax partner at BDO USA: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ivers-and-etsy-sellers-this-above-all-deduct-


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