# U.S. Justice Department appears to be probing Uber’s use of 'greyball'



## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

*U.S. Justice Department appears to be probing Uber's use of software to avoid regulators*

https://www.recode.net/2017/5/4/155...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

The U.S. Justice Department appears to have opened an investigation into Uber following reports that the ride-hailing company used a special tool to evade regulators and law enforcement officials around the country.

In cities like Portland, Oregon, where Uber previously did not have permission to operate, the company in 2014 had relied on software known internally as "Greyball" to identify government officials and prevent them from booking rides. The New York Times first revealed Uber's practice this March, leading the tech giant days later to say it would not use the system -- originally designed to detect fraud - to avoid scrutiny.

In their report on Uber's behavior, however, Portland officials indicated last week that they had been notified by the U.S. Attorney in the Northern District of California that "Uber is the subject of a federal inquiry." A report from Reuters on Thursday said the company specifically had received a subpoena from a grand jury there, meaning that the DOJ's investigation is likely criminal in nature.

Spokespeople for Uber and the Justice Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Let's see if Uber's legal dept. head, scofflaw lawyer Salle Yoo loses her license to practice law. Disbarred.

*Uber's 'Greyball' Program Puts New Focus on Legal Dept.*
*
http://www.therecorder.com/id=12027...cn=20170303&src=EMC-Email&pt=Afternoon Update*


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/technology/uber-federal-inquiry-software-greyball.html?
*Uber Faces Federal Inquiry Over Use of Greyball Tool to Evade Authorities*
By MIKE ISAAC MAY 4, 2017

SAN FRANCISCO - Uber is the subject of a United States Department of Justice inquiry over a program that it used to deceive regulators who were trying to shut down its ride-hailing service.

The inquiry concerns Uber's use of a software tool called Greyball, which the company developed in part to aid entrance into new markets where its service was not permitted. The tool allowed Uber to deploy what was essentially a fake version of its app to evade law enforcement agencies that were cracking down on its service.

The New York Times reported on Greyball in March, raising questions about the legality of the practice. After the report, Uber said it would prohibit employees from using the software to thwart regulators.

The federal inquiry was disclosed in a transportation audit conducted by the City of Portland, Ore., published last week. In the audit, Portland officials said they had been notified by the United States attorney's office for the Northern District of California about the existence of the inquiry. The City of Portland said it was cooperating with the inquiry.

Follow the link for the rest of the article (nothing new though)

Reuters reported on Thursday that the inquiry was a criminal investigation. The United States attorney's office for the Northern District of California generally conducts criminal investigations, and some of the laws that Uber may have broken carry criminal penalties. A federal inquiry often does not result in any charges being filed.

Press officers for Uber and the United States attorney's office, as well as the City of Portland, declined to comment on Thursday.

Uber has been grappling with a number of scandals. Apart from Greyball, Uber has come under fire for its at times raucous internal culture, sexual harassment claims and the aggressive, no-holds-barred approach to business espoused by Travis Kalanick, Uber's chief executive.

The company is in the midst of an internal investigation into its workplace culture, with a report on the findings expected at the end of this month. Mr. Kalanick has said he needs help with his leadership of the company and is searching for a chief operating officer to join Uber.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm sure Uber will find money to kick them to make this all go away.


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## rohit_cs (Jan 17, 2017)

So we've been working with a criminal organization all this time? Kinda sexy.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I'm sure Uber will find money to kick them to make this all go away.


Not after TK pissed off Trump by walking off of his business advisory council.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

And the hits just keep on coming.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Actually greyball helped all of us out so we can all be tried and convicted. 

I for one am glad Uber did greyball. I did not receive one ticket while illegally operating here. Besides, I am sure its in the TOS along the lines of "misuse of the app is not allowed."


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## just_me (Feb 20, 2017)

Jo3030 said:


> *U.S. Justice Department appears to be probing Uber's use of software to avoid regulators*
> 
> https://www.recode.net/2017/5/4/155...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
> 
> ...


'Quick question to the forum'/'thinking out loud here': Had Travis shown some fortitude and stayed on President Trump's technology committee, could Travis have been able to have made some inside connections and avoided this probe, or lessened it's impact?

Note: I'm thinking about Travis being there to answer internal questions to the right people (the Administration, Congress), lobby if you will, etc. I'm not thinking about making brides and such. Part of any CEO's job is to defend the best interests of the company. Having connections is a good way to defend.


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## Bpr2 (Feb 21, 2017)

Saw it on the news today.


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## Conbad99 (Feb 18, 2017)

Sounds like the local authorities where trying to entrap Uber drivers. I don't think what Uber is accused of doing is illegal. Am I wrong? What law did Uber break? If the city TLC is ordering rides with the intention of giving fines out then I say more power to Uber.


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

"Legality & Ethics: Is Greyballing legal?

Around 50 people inside Uber knew about Greyball, and some among them were uneasy about the legal and ethical concerns surrounding such a practice.

While legal specialists are skeptical about the legality of Greyball, it was approved by Uber's legal team led by the company's general counsel, Sally Yoo.

Mrs. Yoo did not respond to requests for comments."









*Uber under criminal investigation in US over 'Greyball'*

*http://menafn.com/1095454990/India--Uber-under-criminal-investigation-in-US-over-Greyball*


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Conbad99 said:


> Sounds like the local authorities where trying to entrap Uber drivers. I don't think what Uber is accused of doing is illegal. Am I wrong? What law did Uber break? If the city TLC is ordering rides with the intention of giving fines out then I say more power to Uber.


What law did Uber break? Seriously?

If Uber wasn't operating illegally, why would they need to hide their driver's from the authorities?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Conbad99 said:


> Sounds like the local authorities where trying to entrap Uber drivers. I don't think what Uber is accused of doing is illegal. Am I wrong? What law did Uber break? If the city TLC is ordering rides with the intention of giving fines out then I say more power to Uber.


Uber was operating illegally - and then using techniques to evade detection. Avoidance is not illegal. Evasion is. Uber was guilty of both operating illegally and proactively taking steps to interfere with law enforcement.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

That is just weird.

I reaaaaallly don't see how THIS, of ~all~ the shady Uber has pulled, should in any way shape or form draw all this attention.

Heck if I were on the design team, I'd suggest adding an "improper account use : soliciting rides with no intent of getting a ride and/or ulterior motives (entrapment, etc.)" and "intentional misuse of app to solicit illegal behaviour" clauses to rider TOS.

And then just add a complaint option: "Rider intentionally misusing app to solicit illegal activity"

Done and done.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Adieu said:


> That is just weird.
> 
> I reaaaaallly don't see how THIS, of ~all~ the shady Uber has pulled, should in any way shape or form draw all this attention.
> 
> ...


That would all make sense if the activity in question, TNC operating in City illegally, were not illegal to begin with. Entrapment is drawing someone into illegal activity. If someone or a company's already involved in illegal activity, it's not entrapment. You don't get to knowingly operate an illicit organization and then intentionally put into place practices to avoid investigation. That is racketeering, otherwise known as organized crime.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Trying to think of the last time the Department of Justice was able to do anything with mountains of evidence.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

NorCalPhil said:


> Trying to think of the last time the Department of Justice was able to do anything with mountains of evidence.


Enron comes to mind.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Enron comes to mind.


Well that's recent


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

NorCalPhil said:


> Well that's recent


It is when you're my age!

Ok, more recent large, complex investigations:
- Foreign influence on US presidential elections. 
- Advertising bid rigging among the world's largest ad agencies.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It is when you're my age!


And to think I resisted replying with an age joke!


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## westsidebum (Feb 7, 2015)

This is duplicate post. I already posted this news


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

westsidebum said:


> This is duplicate post. I already posted this news


Your post in NEWS about this was yesterday (5/9). The thread here was started a week ago, on May 4th - it appears yours is the duplicate post. 
<shrug> It happens.


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## westsidebum (Feb 7, 2015)

Bump


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