# In Defense of Customers.



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Betcha didn’t see this one coming.

Sure, there are lousy tippers in this world. We see it every day.

But - now, hear me out - there are actually fewer of them than we might notice.

For a week,I was watching my pings with one criteria in mind: distance to pickup and distance from pickup to dropoff. And I’ve noticed that most tip appropriately considering distance from restaurant to their house.

It’s the distance to the restaurant that makes the offers ridiculous. The Generators will send you to restaurants 8 miles away to deliver 2 miles and pay a $2.50 base. The customer tips $5 (sure, not great, but appropriate). So you get 10 miles for $7.50.

how is the customer to know you’re driving 8 more miles to pickup? And even if they had known, how is it their problem?

The generators should be the ones covering that leg of the trip appropriately. Either look for someone nearby, or pay per mile - at least to pickup location.

Before anyone says they do look nearby - no they don’t. I’ve spent hours in a restaurant’s parking lot with no pings, watching literally DOZENS of others pick up.

I’m still going to bash the non-tippers and low tippers. But it makes me feel better now knowing there’s really not as many of them as I previously thought.

Moreover, there are very many EXTREMELY high tippers willing to pay $15 for 2 miles.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Case in point. I drove 4 miles to the restaurant. 2 miles to customer.

Here’s what Uber paid me compared with the tip.








And here’s what a 2-mile delivery cost the Customer:









Dude paid $25 total for a 2-mile delivery. Not a 6-mile. 2-mile.

I’d post a crappy total, one where the distance to pickup was insane, but I never take them. We’ve all seen them though. Going 17 miles for $10.54, where the restaurant and drop-off are 2 miles apart.


----------



## IDriveForUber (4 mo ago)

I feel dumb - where does it tell you the trip distance in the pickup request?


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

As a former pizza driver and door dash and eats once in a blue moon. 
This is how I tip. Always very good even 1 mile away. On app. If I feel wow that was so fast. I tip xtra in cash.
But if I see my restaurant is 8 miles away. Driver gets even more of a tip...
It's this simple. If you cannot tip dont order.
Similar problem 2 days ago in a restaurant. Nice waiter. Owner was cook. Food took really long like 1.5 hours. I paid bill and took food to my place. My wife was pissed. 5 staff we were only ones at first. Wine soda. 2 apps. No main course cause owner operator was so slow. I tipped the waiter anyway as it's not his fault....just will never eat again thier.
My only mistake was to cancel the main course pay for my apps. Wine and soda and just tip the waiter. No give the owner my money...but on vacation. I played it no headaches


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

IDriveForUber said:


> I feel dumb - where does it tell you the trip distance in the pickup request?


This is a DELIVERY subforum.


----------



## IDriveForUber (4 mo ago)

Oh, sorry about that! lulz


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

bobby747 said:


> As a former pizza driver and door dash and eats once in a blue moon.
> This is how I tip. Always very good even 1 mile away. On app. If I feel wow that was so fast. I tip xtra in cash.
> But if I see my restaurant is 8 miles away. Driver gets even more of a tip...
> It's this simple. If you cannot tip dont order.
> ...


That was my point. People tip with the restaurant location in mind. Not the overall trip.


----------



## IDriveForUber (4 mo ago)

I wonder if it varies by region. I had a passenger here in Vegas tell me about how she tried out driving for all of the food delivery options, and it was just way too often she was getting <$10 per hour because tips just never came. She quit after two weeks.


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> That was my point. People tip with the restaurant location in mind. Not the overall trip.


I tip overall great. That ad as needed. In snow go puff brought me water and covid tests...I thought I had covid 4.30 am in my city tip in app. I make his morning happy gave cash 7 to $8 more 25 minutes to my house in snow.
2 days ago wife and I am tired we are on vacation. We were hungry but wanted to bring home food from downtown Ottawa. P.u seafood $75.. I gave girl $9 tip. Heck in pa longhorn charges $5 to walk it to my car. 20 plus years doing food at night.
Since covid I play it forward more.. It feels very nice to make a person's day. Many made mine over the years. I am in no way bragging. But in the service industry, we must help them so many months ago at restaurants needed every position for help...
My last 3 deliverys to my home . I only had like 6. Were the nicest woman doing this side hustle...all 3 were so fast. Superbowl sunday at 5pm wife wanted crawfish..I am like are you crazy . Game starts soon it will take forever..omg 30 minutes. I was shocked. In my pizza place 1.5 hour min time. As we had many food trays on order going out...if your are working tonight. Have a great night...stay positive.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

bobby747 said:


> I tip overall great. That ad as needed. In snow go puff brought me water and covid tests...I thought I had covid 4.30 am in my city tip in app. I make his morning happy gave cash 7 to $8 more 25 minutes to my house in snow.
> 2 days ago wife and I am tired we are on vacation. We were hungry but wanted to bring home food from downtown Ottawa. P.u seafood $75.. I gave girl $9 tip. Heck in pa longhorn charges $5 to walk it to my car. 20 plus years doing food at night.
> Since covid I play it forward more.. It feels very nice to make a person's day. Many made mine over the years. I am in no way bragging. But in the service industry, we must help them so many months ago at restaurants needed every position for help...
> My last 3 deliverys to my home . I only had like 6. Were the nicest woman doing this side hustle...all 3 were so fast. Superbowl sunday at 5pm wife wanted crawfish..I am like are you crazy . Game starts soon it will take forever..omg 30 minutes. I was shocked. In my pizza place 1.5 hour min time. As we had many food trays on order going out...if your are working tonight. Have a great night...stay positive.


This isn’t about how we tip. It’s great that you tip well. I tip better. 😂

This is about the generators not paying enough for the trip to restaurant.


----------



## FL_Steve (Dec 17, 2021)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Before anyone says they do look nearby - no they don’t. I’ve spent hours in a restaurant’s parking lot with no pings,


GH will think nothing of giving me offers for restaurants on the other side of town. You would think they could get a closer driver. But usually the offers are at least $1/mile.

With UE I almost always get pickups <1 mi away and often as I am driving by the restaurant. They hardly ever give me offers if I am sitting at a restaurant or sitting any place or even stopped at a traffic light. They want to distract you while driving. They really care about the safety of drivers and the general public like that.


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sorry off topic miss I got 20 years 1.4 mil. Made in delivery business..so I know alittle. And that was 2and job.
G.H direct to store charged the most. But gave the best from them to store to customer results.
Fax comes in with. A code followed by a auto call you put code in. As far as your pay idk.
This is like the 2nd.. time you bust on me about off topic. Only 20 plus years at mom and pop great earning city many places horrible.
Carried tons of cash. Gun. Never needed. I will now offer no advice. But no one on this board has more deliverys in the entire forum 5 nts a week to raise my family 2nd. Job. 5 to 6 days a week est deliverys
247,000 food stops never robbed avg 40 min a nt.football sundays 100. We leave store each time with avg 5 orders.
Miles per nt...40 max.. sunday 100. Most of the drivers have new cars me never. Ok last words from me to show what experience I bring to food. Naked people coming to door. Philadelphia flyers locker room. Players coaches. All pro teams... hockey has the most respected guys . Ok back to mont tremblant 81 today.
AND THE REASON I WILL NEVER DO FOOD BY APP. IS WHAT I SAID ABOVE.


----------



## Uberisfuninlv (Mar 22, 2017)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Betcha didn’t see this one coming.
> 
> Sure, there are lousy tippers in this world. We see it every day.
> 
> ...


You do bring up a good point

if every ping was just restaurant to destination, the payouts aren’t that bad usually, even if low tips, when considered on a per mile basis

the problem is, Uber sends the low or no tip deliveries which require us to sometimes go 2 or 3 miles just to pick up the food, which makes the $ per mile formulas very low sometimes.

even a $3 tip on a restaurant 2 miles away equates to $5 for 2 miles. But if it takes 3 miles to drive to the restaurant, then it becomes 5 miles for $5, not so appealing.

I get what you are saying, we expect customers to tip $5 or more on every delivery. But part of the reason payouts suck is because delivery companies are sending us pings from 2 or miles out from our location.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Uberisfuninlv said:


> You do bring up a good point
> 
> if every ping was just restaurant to destination, the payouts aren’t that bad usually, even if low tips, when considered on a per mile basis
> 
> ...


Sometimes?!? Most of the time I get pings way further than 2-3 miles.

Over the past few days I’ve been getting ridiculous pings. Restaurants 10-12 miles away, delivering right next door, so tipping REALLY low.

I’ve had one going 5 miles away, then returning all the way back +1 mile. So 11 total. It wouldn’t be a bad ping for just the 5 miles, considering a hidden was very possible. But that hidden part should be well over $8 to make even a bit of sense. And we know that’s very far from guaranteed.


----------



## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

bobby747 said:


> Sorry off topic miss I got 20 years 1.4 mil. Made in delivery business..so I know alittle. And that was 2and job.
> G.H direct to store charged the most. But gave the best from them to store to customer results.
> Fax comes in with. A code followed by a auto call you put code in. As far as your pay idk.
> This is like the 2nd.. time you bust on me about off topic. Only 20 plus years at mom and pop great earning city many places horrible.
> ...


Please, Would it hurt just to have some paragraphs ? 
It makes the word salad easier to digest , if you wouldn’t mind condensing what you said or just give me a brief synopsis It would help .


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Betcha didn’t see this one coming.
> 
> Sure, there are lousy tippers in this world. We see it every day.
> 
> ...


Generator pay has never been that great, but I'll say the offers I get these days are nowhere near what I used to get 2 or three years ago. For instance, there are these super-pricey restaurants I would get $20 or $30 for delivering from. Nowadays, I'm lucky to get $12 from those places. Every once in a while, I'll get one that comes close; but it's noticeably less common. I understand the economic conditions but I feel like that's not an adequate explanation for what's happening. 
Another thing I've noticed is that customers order from some moderately pricey restaurants to make you think you're going to get a big tip. But if you look at the order, it's for a salad or some pathetic shit.


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

It's like I said previously; these generators are clueless. If no one close to the restaurant picked up the offer, adding a couple of dimes isn't going to make someone three more miles out take it.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

You do realize that the algorithm will not send pings to drivers that are too close to the pickup.
Strange but true.
It is the same with pax. You will not get a ping from a pax sitting in your car unless you are the only driver in town.

It is a stupid anti fraud measure.


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

Atavar said:


> You do realize that the algorithm will not send pings to drivers that are too close to the pickup.
> Strange but true.
> It is the same with pax. You will not get a ping from a pax sitting in your car unless you are the only driver in town.
> 
> It is a stupid anti fraud measure.


Actually, you will get a ping sitting right outside the restaurant if no one else within a certain radius is available. But you are correct that it doesn't look to the closest driver first. With pax, it might be different. But I frequently get pings for a pickup from a restaurant that is literally across the street from where I sit and wait.


----------



## rideshareapphero (Mar 30, 2018)

They have a dispatch algorithm system and no one knows how it works, I feel like it has different factors like rating, nearest driver and driver's queue, only the devs know how it works.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Grubhubflub said:


> Actually, you will get a ping sitting right outside the restaurant if no one else within a certain radius is available. But you are correct that it doesn't look to the closest driver first. With pax, it might be different. But I frequently get pings for a pickup from a restaurant that is literally across the street from where I sit and wait.


Across the street I will buy. But if you are in their lot you are very unlikely to get an order from them. They geofence the restaurant property.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

rideshareapphero said:


> They have a dispatch algorithm system and no one knows how it works, I feel like it has different factors like rating, nearest driver and driver's queue, only the devs know how it works.


Back when you could actually escalate support calls I actually talked to a dev who told me being too close will disqualify you from pings. 
He also told me that network distance (ping time) is a huge decider in the algo handing out gigs, so faster internet gets more business.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

…which is the exact problem I’m speaking about. You are MORE likely to get a ping 7 miles away than 0.5 miles away. Which adds to the driving distance to the point where it’s not worth it.

I’m not sure how the algorithm works, but UE does send to to the parking lot.








Most of the time I park in a spot about 0.3 in different directions from 3 higher-end restaurants, one if them - a brick oven spot.

And still get a bazillion pings from CFA 5 miles away. Ridiculous pings that would be half-decent if you take away the 5 miles I need to drive. Note that the CFA is in an area with dozens of restaurants of all types within a 0.5 mile. There are probably dozens of drivers closer than I.

This is the exact issue I’m speaking of. There is literally NO REASON not to send pings to the closest drivers, thereby maximizing their payout and increasing their AR, while minimizing the number of orders sitting at restaurants because no one wants them.

It’s dumb.


----------



## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Betcha didn’t see this one coming.
> 
> Sure, there are lousy tippers in this world. We see it every day.
> 
> ...


Yeh, I kind of look at that. It kind of screws the driver, but I'll accept them if the restaurant to drop-off point is fair. The customers don't see where the drivers are when they put the order in. They base their tip off where the restaurant is located. DD should be paying the cost for the distance for the driver to get to the restaurant.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atavar said:


> I actually talked to a dev who told me being too close will disqualify you from pings.


If the dev is correct it's truly scummy on Uber's part for not informing the drivers of this. It's even more evil given the fact that Uber (and Doordash) encourage drivers to drive to "hot spots" in order to get more deliveries.


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

TeleSki said:


> Yeh, I kind of look at that. It kind of screws the driver, but I'll accept them if the restaurant to drop-off point is fair. The customers don't see where the drivers are when they put the order in. They base their tip off where the restaurant is located. DD should be paying the cost for the distance for the driver to get to the restaurant.


WHAT?? So you don't care how far the restaurant is from where you are when you get the ping?


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Grubhubflub said:


> WHAT?? So you don't care how far the restaurant is from where you are when you get the ping?


I’d estimate 7 times out of 10 the restaurant is further from me than the distance from restaurant to the dropoff. These are only those pings I don’t accept.

The ones I do are usually from restaurants within 1 mile of me (my “home base” chosen specifically for proximity to my faves), but they frequently go far, 6-10 miles (really good restaurants). They tip well.

I might just start a log, just out of curiosity. Or likely not, because I’m lazy. 😂


----------



## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> This is the exact issue I’m speaking of. There is literally NO REASON not to send pings to the closest drivers, thereby maximizing their payout and increasing their AR, while minimizing the number of orders sitting at restaurants because no one wants them.
> 
> It’s dumb.


Part of it might be because drivers can be dumb. Drivers tend to get upset more by wait time at the restaurant than they do by drive time to the restaurant. A lot of drivers will get much more upset waiting 15 minutes at the restaurant for the order than they will driving 10 minutes to the restaurant and then waiting 5 minutes for the order.

Personally, if I am in the parking lot of a restaurant and get a ping, I am okay waiting a little longer because if I got a ping from any other restaurant then I would have had to drive to the restaurant. In my eyes 15 minutes wait time at a restaurant that I am already at is better than 10 minutes drive time plus 5 minutes wait time because it takes 15 minutes to pick up the order either way and I accrue less miles waiting 15 minutes, but a lot of drivers don't see it that way.


----------



## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Emptynesst said:


> Please, Would it hurt just to have some paragraphs ?
> It makes the word salad easier to digest , if you wouldn’t mind condensing what you said or just give me a brief synopsis It would help .


He tip gud.

Kan Yu understanding?

Is English your first and only language?


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

I am declining anything under $1/mile round trip. To heck with top dasher. Top dasher does no good if I am losing money filling orders.


----------



## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Atavar said:


> I am declining anything under $1/mile round trip. To heck with top dasher. Top dasher does no good if I am losing money filling orders.


Do you know what your expenses are?

One buck per mile round trip?


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Do you know what your expenses are?
> 
> One buck per mile round trip?


So he means $2/mile. $1 /mile there and $1/mile back.

You’re grumpy today. Again. 😂


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Judge and Jury said:


> Do you know what your expenses are?
> 
> One buck per mile round trip?


I figure my expenses are half of that but if there’s not profit built in there’s no reason to do it in the first place.


----------



## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Grubhubflub said:


> WHAT?? So you don't care how far the restaurant is from where you are when you get the ping?


No. I look. Most of the time I'm within a mile or two. I still decline them if the pay isn't enough. But being in California with the Prop 22 pay adjustment, the distance to pick up at that restaurant is normally within limits. Like if I'm 3 miles from the restaurant, and the delivery is 2 miles away, I'll do it, especially if its a slow night. I rarely get pickups that are more than 2-3 miles away. Most are 0-1.5 miles.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

I think it's based on a rule of soon to clear, this is my understanding of how it works:

Location A we have customer needs a ride and there is an Uber driver available near location A

There is another driver soon to clear in location A

A customer requests a trip at location B there is no Uber drivers in that area

Uber sends a car that's available in location A to location B

Uber driver cleared in location A and picked up passenger in location A

Uber driver on route to location B from location A, arrive at location B and pick up happy customer.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Only $15 for TWENTY FRIGGIN’ MILES!!!!

Cheap entitled asshole, right?

Wrong.










16 of those miles are getting to pickup. The customer tipped at least $10 for 3.5 miles.

Fab logistics, TrashDash. Eff you.


----------



## ColonyMark (Sep 26, 2019)

It is frustrating when customers don’t tip, or tip 1 or 2 dollars. I just try to think about the total payout and not if they tip.
I wouldn’t accept a 10 mile trip for $7 because it’s less than a dollar per mile.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

A half-hour later:








That’s about 1-1.5 miles from store to drop-off.

The customer tipped PLENTY. Yet the trip was obvi a decline. Because of DoorDash, the customer will be waiting, even though (s)he tipped quite well.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

ColonyMark said:


> It is frustrating when customers don’t tip, or tip 1 or 2 dollars. I just try to think about the total payout and not if they tip.
> I wouldn’t accept a 10 mile trip for $7 because it’s less than a dollar per mile.


Not sure what this has to do with the topic, but okay. 😂


----------



## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

I'm guessing the tip was not $10 and that's why they had upped the pay to where the offer was $15.

It was likely another crap order that was not getting picked up by other drivers.

I've seen the retail orders as high as 50 or 75 miles before, for 30 or $40 which of course was because they put the order of pickups and drop offs backwards in order to double the mileage.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

jaxbeachrides said:


> I'm guessing the tip was not $10 and that's why they had upped the pay to where the offer was $15.
> 
> It was likely another crap order that was not getting picked up by other drivers.
> 
> I've seen the retail orders as high as 50 or 75 miles before, for 30 or $40 which of course was because they put the order of pickups and drop offs backwards in order to double the mileage.


Even if the tip was $5 (when did DD ever pay a base over $7-8?!?), this doesn’t change the fact that out of 20 miles only 3-4 were actual delivery miles. It’s ridiculous that distance to pick-up is FOUR TIMES the distance to delivery. I don’t believe for a minute there was not one single driver closer.


----------



## ColonyMark (Sep 26, 2019)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Not sure what this has to do with the topic, but okay. 😂


My mind tends to wander


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

ColonyMark said:


> My mind tends to wander


Ditto! 😂

Thanks for taking this the way it was meant - just a friendly giggle. You’re my kind of People!


----------



## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

I tend to think that the first order of business is to isolate Driver_A in Location_A and not send them the offer.

Then blast all other drivers within the "order ready time" (maybe 15-minutes) a low-ball offer and see if anyone bites; if they take it by mistake or just ant-it doesn't matter.

If nobody bites they send Driver_A the offer and still make a reasonable profit.
---
Now, with that they probably isolate a few drivers in Location_A so they have at least one ready to go. 

The slack time created between "blasting all other drivers" and "Driver_A getting the offer" allows them time to potentially stack orders and offer 'Driver_A' a lower $ total-offer, therefore retaining [far] more money for themselves.


----------



## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> I tend to think that the first order of business is to isolate Driver_A in Location_A and not send them the offer.
> 
> Then blast all other drivers within the "order ready time" (maybe 15-minutes) a low-ball offer and see if anyone bites; if they take it by mistake or just ant-it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Who's on first, what's on second.


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> I tend to think that the first order of business is to isolate Driver_A in Location_A and not send them the offer.
> 
> Then blast all other drivers within the "order ready time" (maybe 15-minutes) a low-ball offer and see if anyone bites; if they take it by mistake or just ant-it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


You're half right.


----------



## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> (when did DD ever pay a base over $7-8?!?)


They do for long-distance deliveries sometimes, especially when the distance to pickup is a long distance like the one that you showed in your screenshot. If DoorDash is trying to get you to drive that far for a pickup, then it usually means that they are in desperation mode and trying to get the order delivered by any means necessary. The highest base pay that I have ever received from DoorDash was around $13, and they were for similar type deliveries. Although those usually happen late at night. I've never seen one of those in the middle of the day.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

I was 99% convinced this was a tipbaiting situation. Was exactly one coffee and one sconce going to an extremely modest house. 








I bch about people sucking so much I felt obligated to illustrate that not all do.


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

That's one of those odd ones. It looks like Ioke the actually tipped 20% or even 30%. People usually don't do that for a single coffee and scone. It's nice when someone does.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Grubhubflub said:


> That's one of those odd ones. It looks like Ioke the actually tipped 20% or even 30%. People usually don't do that for a single coffee and scone. It's nice when someone does.


I feel really really guilty. I was bracing myself for “no big deal, was an easy 2 miles…”


----------

