# I don't see how Uber survives.



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Google has already launched their self driving taxi service in Phoenix, GM will launch within six months. You need two things to survive in the auto/transportation business, 1. autos. 2. self driving hardware and software. Uber won't have either for at least two years. Neither Google nor GM is going to sell or lease Uber anything. All Uber has to offer is a large customer base. How much of a customer base is Uber going to have after Google and GM spend two years picking off all Uber's customers?


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm curious about something Greg-

You've said all along that it is your opinion that you predict when the SDC rideshare comes out every current uber pax will make the switch because the difference in price will be significant and everybody loves the cheap option.

Ok, if that's true then why do more people ride uber than ride the bus? The Bus is way cheaper than uber.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> I'm curious about something Greg-
> 
> You've said all along that it is your opinion that you predict when the SDC rideshare comes out every current uber pax will make the switch because the difference in price will be significant and everybody loves the cheap option.
> 
> Ok, if that's true then why do more people ride uber than ride the bus? The Bus is way cheaper than uber.


I'm going to let you figure that one out all by yourself. Actually, get the 'UP community' involved. I'm guessing if you put all your brains together you guys can figure that one out without me. If after a week you're still stuck, I'll be happy to give you the answer.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> I'm going to let you figure that one out all by yourself. Actually, get the 'UP community' involved. I'm guessing if you put all your brains together you guys can figure that one out without me. If after a week you're still stuck, I'll be happy to give you the answer.


Oh Greg. It's like the Junior High debate team with you isn't it?

Whenever you cannot give an intelligent reply you:

Crack a joke: sometimes insulting, sometimes just snarky

Change the subject (known as a "pivot")

Try to discredit the opponent by saying that person is dumb or crazy

Or cop a diva attitude like "answering your questions are sooo beneath me!"

If you can't give a reply that means you haven't got one.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Oh Greg. It's like the Junior High debate team with you isn't it?
> 
> Whenever you cannot give an intelligent reply you:
> 
> ...


hehehehehehehehe


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> hehehehehehehehe


See! You did it again!

Tell you what, Greg, my boy... I'll let you in on a little secret. I like you. Yeah you're annoying AF but you got heart.

So, I'm gonna do something for you: I'm gonna let you off the hook. I'll set the record straight on this so you won't have to answer the question (which you won't do anyway).

You see: we're the same you & I in that we both have an idea of how society is going to react to a SDC rideshare biz. Neither of us can prove our ideas now. We have to wait to see what happens. The only tiny exception is you're paid to have your ideas so I really don't know what's truly in that black heart of yours.

So you will never answer this question or any question that sheds doubt on your glorious idea of a utopian future.

And that's that.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> See! You did it again!
> 
> Tell you what, Greg, my boy... I'll let you in on a little secret. I like you. Yeah you're annoying AF but you got heart.
> 
> ...


You didn't even consult with the community, did you? More usurpation of community authority, smh. Call the community together tonight and pull an all-nighter. If by tomorrow you guys don't have the answer, I'll give you the answer.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> You didn't even consult with the community, did you? More usurpation of community authority, smh. Call the community together tonight and pull an all-nighter. If by tomorrow you guys don't have the answer, I'll give you the answer.


Slight problem with that, Greg:

Pretty much the entire UP community has ignored you. I really should, too, but what can I say? I can't quit you.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> You didn't even consult with the community, did you? More usurpation of community authority, smh. Call the community together tonight and pull an all-nighter. If by tomorrow you guys don't have the answer, I'll give you the answer.


No one is going to choose Uber over Waymo for the following reasons:

Cheaper
Safer
More reliable. The Waymo self driving car is not going to cancel on you. Won't make a wrong turn, and won't long route you.
No driver. Truth is people will choose privacy and security over a pleasant conversation with a human driver every time.
Newer, nicer, cleaner cars.
Waymo surge pricing will still be cheaper than Uber X base fare.
You'll be able to pull the shades and it'll be like being in your living room. You'll watch the first quarter of the football game and you're at the airport. http://www.beckerautodesign.com/esv/quote/checklist-esv/3.jpg
Eventually there will be a TNC SDC within half a block of you. How many cars are within half a block of you wherever you are throughout the day now, 50? Yes, it won't be your car, but you'll have a car available within seconds. The car will be maintained in top condition and eventually all the beaters will be gone from the road.
Waymos will be going nonstop and they won't need to take breaks or go offline. Waymo CEO, John Krafcik: "there's a lot more demand for room in our cars than we can actually provide." This will be the case for months, if not years.
Time is money. No businessman is going to take the bus to or from the airport. It takes half a day to get across town, after 2 bus transfers, in many cities. Quality of the service, convenience and time are more important to most people.
Buses are horrible, especially when it's hot and they're packed. They take forever, you still have the last mile problem and they don't run 24/7.
Public transportation will be replaced by a combination of self driving TNC's and small self driving shuttle vans. Instead of local governments subsidizing 90 percent of public transportation systems, poors will receive transportation vouchers, similar to food stamps. It's not a coincidence that the first self driving shuttle bus was launched in Vegas. The Vegas Strip will eventually be self driving taxis and self driving shuttles only. Then the casinos can turn their huge parking garages into more hotel rooms. That's worth billions. http://www.11points.com/images/vegasparkinggarage.jpg Same will happen in Manhattan.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste :

_Cheaper-_ again, this isn't a slam dunk. Just because they're cheaper doesn't mean people will use it. Buses are currently cheaper than uber yet people still choose uber. What you will see happen is the people who can afford an uber will still take that and the people who are so broke they need to save every penny those will be the customers.-- but those are the kind of people who are bigger risks to vandalism and other acts of disrespecting the vehicle-- which will cost money to fix
_Safer-_ the jury is still out on this. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/11/08/self-driving-bus-las-vegas-crash
_More reliable-_ 99% of the time that I cancel it's due to pax being dumb (they ordered the car then passed out, they entered the pickup address they're still upstairs getting ready, etc). Dumb pax are still going to be dumb pax
_No driver_. - again the jury is out if this is what people want.
_Newer, nicer, cleaner cars_.- give it 1 year and then talk to me LOL
_Waymo surge pricing will still be cheaper than Uber X base fare._- see #1
_You'll be able to pull the shades and it'll be like being in your living room._-this sounds nice but I scratch my head at how Waymo can pay to maintain onboard electronics at 35 cents a mile. I can't even afford water!
_Eventually there will be a TNC SDC within half a block of you-_ to do this they will need a lot more than 600 fleet cars. Sounds like a lot of responsibility. Can't fund that much responsibility at 35 cents a mile
_Waymos will be going nonstop and they won't need to take breaks or go offline._-- which means maintenance which again cannot be funded on 35 cents a mile.
_Time is money_. Businesspeople expense their rides anyway. They don't need to find the cheapest option.
_Buses are horrible, especially when it's hot and they're packed. -_- Agreed. But my point is SDCs will be vandalized and smelly and disgusting as well when you're attracting the people who are looking for dirt cheap prices. They may not be overcrowded but they will quickly become just as disgusting
_Public transportation will be replaced by a combination of self driving TNC's -_ ha! To do that you'll have to get voters to drink your kool aide. Good luck with that.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Just because they're cheaper doesn't mean people will use it. Buses are currently cheaper than uber yet people still choose uber. What you will see happen is the people who can afford an uber will still take that and the people who are so broke they need to save every penny those will be the customers.


Nonsense. If Uber raises prices customers switch to Lyft, why? because it's the exact same product. Same car, same driver, the only differentiating factor is price. You can't compare buses to Uber, it's not even close to the same product.

Waymo is a far superior product than Uber as far as; safety, security, privacy, reliability, car quality, and then on top of all that it'll be much cheaper. Zero customers will choose Uber over Waymo.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Nonsense. If Uber raises prices customers switch to Lyft, why? because it's the exact same product. Same car, same driver, the only differentiating factor is price. You can't compare buses to Uber, it's not even close to the same product.
> 
> Waymo is a far superior product than Uber as far as; safety, security, privacy, reliability, car quality, and then on top of all that it'll be much cheaper. Zero customers will choose Uber over Waymo.


Try keeping it that way at 35 cents a mile. I dunno man. All Waymo had to do is charge a reasonable rate, have plenty of money to pay for all costs involved plus have enough for a rainy day, but you're still married to this bargain basement rate. Makes no sense.

Also, question to you: uber gets out of transpo regulations by saying they're not a transportation company and they don't own any cars.

So... how is Waymo going to handle this? They will DEFINITELY be in the transportation business and they will DEFINITELY own cars.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Try keeping it that way at 35 cents a mile. I dunno man. All Waymo had to do is charge a reasonable rate, have plenty of money to pay for all costs involved plus have enough for a rainy day, but you're still married to this bargain basement rate. Makes no sense.
> 
> Also, question to you: uber gets out of transpo regulations by saying they're not a transportation company and they don't own any cars.
> 
> So... how is Waymo going to handle this? They will DEFINITELY be in the transportation business and they will DEFINITELY own cars.


I've said Waymo and GM will not charge 35 cents in the beginnning while they have the entire market to themselves. They'd be leaving money on the table and there's simply no reason to. State, local and the Feds have taken a hands off approach to self driving cars. Human driven TNC's as well as human driven taxis are all walking dead and the laws will change. The onerous taxi regulations will be done away with.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> I've said Waymo and GM will not charge 35 cents in the beginnning while they have the entire market to themselves. They'd be leaving money on the table and there's simply no reason to. State, local and the Feds have taken a hands off approach to self driving cars. Human driven TNC's as well as human driven taxis are all walking dead and the laws will change. The onerous taxi regulations will be done away with.


I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. If it were that easy taxi companies would have successfully lobbied to have them changed years ago. Those very regulations are the reason taxis charge about $3 a mile. If they could have cut their prices years ago they would have


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. If it were that easy taxi companies would have successfully lobbied to have them changed years ago. Those very regulations are the reason taxis charge about $3 a mile. If they could have cut their prices years ago they would have



It was January 2015 and the Phoenix area was about to host the Super Bowl. Mr. Ducey learned that a local regulator was planning a sting on Lyft and Uber drivers to shut down the ride-hailing services for operating illegally. Mr. Ducey, a Republican who was the former chief executive of the ice cream chain Cold Stone Creamery, was furious.

"It was the exact opposite message we should have been sending," Mr. Ducey said in an interview. "We needed our message to Uber, Lyft and other entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley to be that Arizona was open to new ideas." If the state had a slogan, he added, it would include the words "open for business."

Mr. Ducey fired the regulator who hatched the idea of going after ride-hailing drivers and shut down the entire agency, the Department of Weights and Measures. By April 2015, Arizona had legalized ride-sharing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/technology/arizona-tech-industry-favorite-self-driving-hub.html


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

And in a regulation-loving state like NY or California, how do you think that will go down?


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> And in a regulation-loving state like NY or California, how do you think that will go down?


Quite easily actutally. Even commie states know they have no choice if they want to compete and keep businesses from fleeing.

*Totally driverless cars could be allowed on California roads by June 2018*
*http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-dmv-driverless-california-20171011-story.html*


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Quite easily actutally. Even commie states know they have no choice if they want to compete and keep businesses from fleeing.
> 
> *Totally driverless cars could be allowed on California roads by June 2018*
> *http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-dmv-driverless-california-20171011-story.html*


Key word: "could"


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

One thing i haven't seen mentioned...how much more efficiently U/L drivers can get from point A to point B...maneuvering thru traffic, avoiding behind slow trucks and busses, running yellow/reds, making illegal U-turns that can save 10+ minutes...on and on. I estimate a ride on SDC, from request to pickup to dropoff will take 35% longer. All this should be pretty interesting...


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Drivincrazy said:


> One thing i haven't seen mentioned...how much more efficiently U/L drivers can get from point A to point B...maneuvering thru traffic, avoiding behind slow trucks and busses, running yellow/reds, making illegal U-turns that can save 10+ minutes...on and on. I estimate a ride on SDC, from request to pickup to dropoff will take 35% longer. All this should be pretty interesting...


The Tomato will never admit to this, whether it's true or not. At this point all we can do is wait for it to happen

There's not even any sense talking about it until then.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Hey iheartuber and tomatopaste Drivincrazy , I'm enjoying this thread. From all angles. Having lived with a Tesla and the limitations it's driving environment imposed on robot cars has been an education. (46,000kms now)

This may sound strange, but I'm looking forward to SDCs, it's part of my retirement plan and I see ongoing opportunities for high-end operators like myself. I've got a good 15 years left in me, so I've gotta adapt.

Humans are a funny, diverse bunch of folk. You can't really predict what they're gonna get up to each day, where they've gotta go, who they are gonna Ride with and what they're going to carry.

Robots on the other hand (until hacked and sent on a death spiral off some Californian ocean cliff) are totally predictable, conservatively programmed NEVER to break the law, won't be distracted blah blah.

There's gonna be niche markets for all, the service that folk want, will be catered for by the operators with the best driver/vehicle/robot mix.

It won't be long before we start seeing how this all manifests itself.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey iheartuber and tomatopaste Drivincrazy , I'm enjoying this thread. From all angles. Having lived with a Tesla and the limitations it's driving environment imposed on robot cars has been an education. (46,000kms now)
> 
> This may sound strange, but I'm looking forward to SDCs, it's part of my retirement plan and I see ongoing opportunities for high-end operators like myself. I've got a good 15 years left in me, so I've gotta adapt.
> 
> ...


When we mechanized the wheat harvest:
https://www.uschamber.com/sites/def...ickr_wheat_oregondot_1200px.jpg?itok=TSW6PzKX

This:
http://www.metroparks.net/wp-conten...080p_wheat-cutting-with-horses_J-Heetland.jpg

and this:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fMxSCDp-f9I/hqdefault.jpg

died. Human driving for hire is walking dead.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> When we mechanized the wheat harvest:
> https://www.uschamber.com/sites/def...ickr_wheat_oregondot_1200px.jpg?itok=TSW6PzKX
> 
> This:
> ...


Clearly you have never had professional relationships that have lasted longer than a Uber ride. My business relies on, and is successful at winning, keeping and serving long term repeat travellers. Clients I first made contact with in 1989, now have moved up the corporate tree to be CEO's, and senior managers. I've "promised" my very best clients a "flying car" option by 2025. Over the decades, they've enjoyed the "journey" they have shared with my drivers, in great cars that now features the Tesla X. Niche Chauffeur services are problematic for UBER. Happy to chase world "domination" $15 at a time, but pissed off that much of the VERY best, highest paying, largest margin work will always be the domain of a Private Chauffeur service - in human or autonomous cars.

If a client is fine with an SDC, needs the privacy, extra space in the car, then we morph into concierge service. Ensuring there is someone at the Airport to meet, greet, summon the car, load up and send on it's way to another Concierge. When clients are paying $5 - $20 - $100 per kilometre you give them what they ask for, need and little extras that exceed their expectations. Hard to do when all you have is an App with "McDonald's menu" of transport services. Having Concierges move around at 50 cents per kilometre to carry out their tasks is an acceptable business expense.

So I guess you are an advocate of the very strange and dangerous march to the creation of a perfect species? Robots that "protect" the Earth and themselves while killing their only possible competitor - Mankind.

"the pace of change will be so astonishingly quick that we won't be able to keep up, unless we enhance our own intelligence by merging with the intelligent machines we are creating". Kurzweil states that humans will be a hybrid of biological and non-biological intelligence that becomes increasingly dominated by its non-biological component. He stresses that "AI is not an intelligent invasion from Mars. These are brain extenders that we have created to expand our own mental reach. They are part of our civilization. They are part of who we are. So over the next few decades our human-machine civilization will become increasingly dominated by its non-biological component" Ray Kurzweil

He's a futurist, but methinks is a fan of a Robot dominated earth,

And here is a story as to how AI only amplifies human failings
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...gence-beauty-contest-doesnt-like-black-people

I have 3 young kids - and I'm worried


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> Clearly you have never had professional relationships that have lasted longer than a Uber ride. My business relies on, and is successful at winning, keeping and serving long term repeat travellers. Clients I first made contact with in 1989, now have moved up the corporate tree to be CEO's, and senior managers. I've "promised" my very best clients a "flying car" option by 2025. Over the decades, they've enjoyed the "journey" they have shared with my drivers, in great cars that now features the Tesla X. Niche Chauffeur services are problematic for UBER. Happy to chase world "domination" $15 at a time, but pissed off that much of the VERY best, highest paying, largest margin work will always be the domain of a Private Chauffeur service - in human or autonomous cars.
> 
> If a client is fine with an SDC, needs the privacy, extra space in the car, then we morph into concierge service. Ensuring there is someone at the Airport to meet, greet, summon the car, load up and send on it's way to another Concierge. When clients are paying $5 - $20 - $100 per kilometre you give them what they ask for, need and little extras that exceed their expectations. Hard to do when all you have is an App with "McDonald's menu" of transport services. Having Concierges move around at 50 cents per kilometre to carry out their tasks is an acceptable business expense.
> 
> ...


The Tomato is not some robot lover who dreams of a world run by robots.

He's just an overzealous young kid who recently got his first real job as the research analyst and PR man for companies like Waymo who are pushing the SDC taxi experience sooner rather than later.

His opinions are not driven by his love for a robot-ruled earth. He's just being paid to cop this opinion.

Either that or he's a nutjob living in his mom's basement.

But chances are it's probably the first one.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> The Tomato is not some robot lover who dreams of a world run by robots.
> 
> He's just an overzealous young kid who recently got his first real job as the research analyst and PR man for companies like Waymo who are pushing the SDC taxi experience sooner rather than later.
> 
> ...


Pretty sad when your arguments are so weak you have to make everything personal to have an argument at all. Pathetic when you have to make up fake personas to even be able to make it personal.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Pretty sad when your arguments are so weak you have to make everything personal to have an argument at all. Pathetic when you have to make up fake personas to even be able to make it personal.


There are only two reasons why you are saying what you are saying:

1) you're working in that space and you're being paid to do so
Or
2) you're just some nut, er I mean passionate person, with too much time on your hands

Spoiler alert: Monica confessed it was the first one


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> There are only two reasons why you are saying what you are saying:
> 
> 1) you're working in that space and you're being paid to do so
> Or
> ...


And nobody cares one way or the other. There are only two reasons someone would care one way or the other: they drink too much or they run a meth lab outback.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> And nobody cares one way or the other. There are only two reasons someone would care one way or the other: they drink too much or they run a meth lab outback.


Its not a question of if anybody cares, it's a question of refuting your claim that I am giving you false personas.

If you admit you are definitely inside one of these two possible scenarios then the personas I've given you are not false.

Now, before we split hairs and you start saying "But I'm not Greg Rogers!" Let me just say this: maybe you are and maybe you are not but even if you are not, there's a very good chance the persona I've given you is in the same ballpark.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> Pretty sad when your arguments are so weak you have to make everything personal to have an argument at all. Pathetic when you have to make up fake personas to even be able to make it personal.


Hey tp! It's OK to be fan of a football team, screaming their superiority out to the world. Going to all their training sessions and getting pumped as the big game gets nearer.

But you're gonna get other fans a little pissed-off if you begin devaluing all their past and current success and history. And more to the point you're team have yet to run onto a competitive field - so ANY claim of superiority now is a little foolhardy.

Prove iHeart wrong, answer a question directly, like you're younger than 25- 27years of age. It may cut you some slack.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey iheartuber and tomatopaste Drivincrazy , I'm enjoying this thread. From all angles. Having lived with a Tesla and the limitations it's driving environment imposed on robot cars has been an education. (46,000kms now)
> 
> This may sound strange, but I'm looking forward to SDCs, it's part of my retirement plan and I see ongoing opportunities for high-end operators like myself. I've got a good 15 years left in me, so I've gotta adapt.
> 
> ...


Are you considering joining the Tesla Network when it launches?


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey tp! It's OK to be fan of a football team, screaming their superiority out to the world. Going to all their training sessions and getting pumped as the big game gets nearer.
> 
> But you're gonna get other fans a little pissed-off if you begin devaluing all their past and current success and history. And more to the point you're team have yet to run onto a competitive field - so ANY claim of superiority now is a little foolhardy.
> 
> Prove iHeart wrong, answer a question directly, like you're younger than 25- 27years of age. It may cut you some slack.


Sydney Uber you may not have seen the post a few threads back but a co-worker of Tomato's chimed in, a lady who calls herself Monica, and said full disclosure, the firm that she and TP work for were hired by SDC companies to study the effects SDCs will have on society. She went on to say that at first they got literally NO replies so that's why they gave TP the license to start going mental on people (aka Trolling) just to get any reaction at all.

I googled all the Think Tanks hired by SDC companies and looked at the staff lists. I found a man (a boy? A boy-man? LOL) by the name of Greg Rogers who's background seemed to be the kind of place someone would come from to use the kind of words TP uses online.

This may or may not be TP but just to bug him I treat him as if he is. Hey, could be, right?

Check him out:

https://www.enotrans.org/profiles/greg-rogers/


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Sydney Uber you may not have seen the post a few threads back but a co-worker of Tomato's chimed in, a lady who calls herself Monica, and said full disclosure, the firm that she and TP work for were hired by SDC companies to study the effects SDCs will have on society. She went on to say that at first they got literally NO replies so that's why they gave TP the license to start going mental on people (aka Trolling) just to get any reaction at all.
> 
> I googled all the Think Tanks hired by SDC companies and looked at the staff lists. I found a man (a boy? A boy-man? LOL) by the name of Greg Rogers who's background seemed to be the kind of place someone would come from to use the kind of words TP uses online.
> 
> ...


My competing theory is that he's a bitter former Uber driver who's struggling to pay off his new Escalade.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/driver-destination-in-los-angeles-now-2.205866/page-6#post-3256086


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Clearly you have never had professional relationships that have lasted longer than a Uber ride. My business relies on, and is successful at winning, keeping and serving long term repeat travellers. Clients I first made contact with in 1989, now have moved up the corporate tree to be CEO's, and senior managers. I've "promised" my very best clients a "flying car" option by 2025. Over the decades, they've enjoyed the "journey" they have shared with my drivers, in great cars that now features the Tesla X. Niche Chauffeur services are problematic for UBER. Happy to chase world "domination" $15 at a time, but pissed off that much of the VERY best, highest paying, largest margin work will always be the domain of a Private Chauffeur service - in human or autonomous cars.
> 
> If a client is fine with an SDC, needs the privacy, extra space in the car, then we morph into concierge service. Ensuring there is someone at the Airport to meet, greet, summon the car, load up and send on it's way to another Concierge. When clients are paying $5 - $20 - $100 per kilometre you give them what they ask for, need and little extras that exceed their expectations. Hard to do when all you have is an App with "McDonald's menu" of transport services. Having Concierges move around at 50 cents per kilometre to carry out their tasks is an acceptable business expense.
> 
> ...


Clearly.

If your business is dependent on clients you've had since 1989 then your business is not going to survive. I've heard this same argument several times on this forum: "My clients are so high end, money is no object." Money is always an object. No one accepts getting ripped off, and no one, not even Bill Gates, is going to pay $100 per kilometer.

Why will your clients need a chauffeur service if they have two Mercedes Benz F 015's sitting in their ten car garage? One solely as a backup?






You sound like an Aussie version of the vaunted American "UP community."


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

iheartuber said:


> Sydney Uber you may not have seen the post a few threads back but a co-worker of Tomato's chimed in, a lady who calls herself Monica, and said full disclosure, the firm that she and TP work for were hired by SDC companies to study the effects SDCs will have on society. She went on to say that at first they got literally NO replies so that's why they gave TP the license to start going mental on people (aka Trolling) just to get any reaction at all.
> 
> I googled all the Think Tanks hired by SDC companies and looked at the staff lists. I found a man (a boy? A boy-man? LOL) by the name of Greg Rogers who's background seemed to be the kind of place someone would come from to use the kind of words TP uses online.
> 
> ...


Pretty good investigative work. Certainly fits the profile / image I have. Social media junkie, who having never enjoyed a steady career, is quite happy to champion new technology that seems destined to submit the proletariat to a lifetime of unsecured "gigs". He happily Twitters away whilst heading down to the drugstore for a tube of Clearasil and condoms just in case he gets lucky at the disco where the favourite dance is the chocolate cha cha.

But that is totally prejudicial and uncalled for stereotyping! SO I apologise unreservedly to tomatopaste for expressing such views. It's easy to do when someone is lobbing grenades at a way of life that DID provide a living wage for drivers in the recent past. Allowed families to fed, housed and clothed more than adequately. This technology has succeeded in cutting a cake into smaller and smaller pieces for those at the coal face.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Clearly.
> 
> If your business is dependent on clients you've had since 1989 then your business is not going to survive. I've heard this same argument several times on this forum: "My clients are so high end, money is no object." Money is always an object. No one accepts getting ripped off, and no one, not even Bill Gates, is going to pay $100 per kilometer.
> 
> ...


Actually, a Dr. I picked up DID have 2 Mercedes in his driveway and a personal chauffer.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> Pretty good investigative work. Certainly fits the profile / image I have. Social media junkie, who having never enjoyed a steady career, is quite happy to champion new technology that seems destined to submit the proletariat to a lifetime of unsecured "gigs". He happily Twitters away whilst heading down to the drugstore for a tube of Clearasil and condoms just in case he gets lucky at the disco where the favourite dance is the chocolate cha cha.
> 
> But that is totally prejudicial and uncalled for stereotyping! SO I apologise unreservedly to tomatopaste for expressing such views. It's easy to do when someone is lobbing grenades at a way of life that DID provide a living wage for drivers in the recent past. Allowed families to fed, housed and clothed more than adequately. This technology has succeeded in cutting a cake into smaller and smaller pieces for those at the coal face.


If the tomato really is Greg Rogers, his "career" went something like this: graduated college 2013. Moves to D.C. Works as a staffer for a bunch of low level congressmen. Started a blog and a podcast with his buddy which caught the attention of the Eno Center for Transportation. Starts making a little bit of money ($60k), half of which pays for an overpriced D.C. Rental.

At first he trolled UP because his boss told him to, but now... he just does it for fun.

If this is not really who the Tomato is I'll bet hard money that it's damn close.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> Clearly.
> 
> If your business is dependent on clients you've had since 1989 then your business is not going to survive. I've heard this same argument several times on this forum: "My clients are so high end, money is no object." Money is always an object. No one accepts getting ripped off, and no one, not even Bill Gates, is going to pay $100 per kilometer.
> 
> ...


Those clients have Kids - they have taken up the baton. They travel regularly and happily. They use UBER as well when appropriate.

You fell for the bait with the $100 per/km line. That's a pretty narrow view of how Chauffeur services are billed out - but you wouldn't know that would you? I've already shown the earlier YouTube of that Merc to some of my clients. Told them how there will be a huge opportunity when I'm picking up (or its picking up) random, ad-hoc bookings whilst sub-contracted out to booking agencies such as Go Catch/Rydo premium here in OZ, and UBER LUX. There will be super luxurious app-based platforms promoting these very cars at what you think is rip-off rates, but for many is chicken feed.

Those very riders will have been "filtered" by the very choices, and expensive taste they display by choosing cars priced at $4.50 per km - $100 per km. Those cabin HD displays could deliver a very personalised message and invitation to those qualified riders to the 6 star resorts, casinos and playgrounds the rich do tend to favour.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Those clients have Kids - they have taken up the baton. They travel regularly and happily. They use UBER as well when appropriate.
> 
> You fell for the bait with the $100 per/km line. That's a pretty narrow view of how Chauffeur services are billed out - but you wouldn't know that would you? I've already shown the earlier YouTube of that Merc to some of my clients. Told them how there will be a huge opportunity when I'm picking up (or its picking up) random, ad-hoc bookings whilst sub-contracted out to booking agencies such as Go Catch/Rydo premium here in OZ, and UBER LUX. There will be super luxurious app-based platforms promoting these very cars at what you think is rip-off rates, but for many is chicken feed.
> 
> Those very riders will have been "filtered" by the very choices, and expensive taste they display by choosing cars priced at $4.50 per km - $100 per km. Those cabin HD displays could deliver a very personalised message and invitation to those qualified riders to the 6 star resorts, casinos and playgrounds the rich do tend to favour.


So basically your car service is going to morph into a professional arse wiping service for worthless entitled pricks just in case they have to use the restroom. Sounds like a very fulfilling life.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> So basically your car service is going to morph a professional arse wiping service for worthless entitled pricks just in case they have to use the restroom. Sounds like a very fulfilling life.


Why so bitter??!! Your little trolling had gotten progressively worse over time.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

goneubering said:


> Why so bitter??!! Your little trolling had gotten progressively worse over time.


troll2
trōl/
_verb_
gerund or present participle: *trolling*


informal
make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.


someone who refuses to engage in the vaunted "UP community's" nightly circle jerks.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Those clients have Kids - they have taken up the baton. They travel regularly and happily. They use UBER as well when appropriate.
> 
> You fell for the bait with the $100 per/km line. That's a pretty narrow view of how Chauffeur services are billed out - but you wouldn't know that would you? I've already shown the earlier YouTube of that Merc to some of my clients. Told them how there will be a huge opportunity when I'm picking up (or its picking up) random, ad-hoc bookings whilst sub-contracted out to booking agencies such as Go Catch/Rydo premium here in OZ, and UBER LUX. There will be super luxurious app-based platforms promoting these very cars at what you think is rip-off rates, but for many is chicken feed.
> 
> Those very riders will have been "filtered" by the very choices, and expensive taste they display by choosing cars priced at $4.50 per km - $100 per km. Those cabin HD displays could deliver a very personalised message and invitation to those qualified riders to the 6 star resorts, casinos and playgrounds the rich do tend to favour.


I have no idea what you're even try to say here. If this is your sales pitch, you need a new pitchman.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hey iheartuber and tomatopaste Drivincrazy , I'm enjoying this thread. From all angles. Having lived with a Tesla and the limitations it's driving environment imposed on robot cars has been an education. (46,000kms now)
> 
> This may sound strange, but I'm looking forward to SDCs, it's part of my retirement plan and I see ongoing opportunities for high-end operators like myself. I've got a good 15 years left in me, so I've gotta adapt.
> 
> ...





iheartuber said:


> Its not a question of if anybody cares, it's a question of refuting your claim that I am giving you false personas.
> 
> If you admit you are definitely inside one of these two possible scenarios then the personas I've given you are not false.
> 
> Now, before we split hairs and you start saying "But I'm not Greg Rogers!" Let me just say this: maybe you are and maybe you are not but even if you are not, there's a very good chance the persona I've given you is in the same ballpark.


I'm going to start a gofundme account to raise money so the "UP community" can get a life. Each of you can use it for like ten minutes a day.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> troll2
> trōl/
> _verb_
> gerund or present participle: *trolling*
> ...


You've gone from interesting to amusing to now just being rude and crude. You can't be in any PR department of a real company so I think my guess is the best. You're simply mad at Uber about something. Take care.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> I have no idea what you're even try to say here. If this is your sales pitch, you need a new pitchman.


You've never been part of a Chauffeur service. One that isn't measured or valued by the kilometres /miles one travels. It ain't no pitch, it's the way it is for a very loyal, well resourced clients. They can choose any way to roll, at any rate. I'm not going to rip them off. And theyre not in the business of devaluing a service they are happy with. Unlike UBER



goneubering said:


> Are you considering joining the Tesla Network when it launches?


Funny network that. Tesla has some sort of legal hold on how the model 3 can be used for Autonomous commercial applications. They've come out and said Tesla's proprietary software can't be used for any other "Rideshare" organisation. It's gonna be an interesting legal case along the way.

IMHO the Model 3 will make the perfect cab/rideshare car, easily clawing back the extra capital cost of a Tesa by year two in maintenance costs over a Petrol/desiel car.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

goneubering said:


> You've gone from interesting to amusing to now just being rude and crude. You can't be in any PR department of a real company so I think my guess is the best. You're simply mad at Uber about something. Take care.


Suck it up Buttercup.



Sydney Uber said:


> You've never been part of a Chauffeur service. One that isn't measured or valued by the kilometres /miles one travels. It ain't no pitch, it's the way it is for a very loyal, well resourced clients. They can choose any way to roll, at any rate. I'm not going to rip them off. And theyre not in the business of devaluing a service they are happy with. Unlike UBER


The barriers to entry for a car service are a lot higher than for a "concierge" service. Everyone and their mother will have a "concierge" service.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> You've never been part of a Chauffeur service. One that isn't measured or valued by the kilometres /miles one travels. It ain't no pitch, it's the way it is for a very loyal, well resourced clients. They can choose any way to roll, at any rate. I'm not going to rip them off. And theyre not in the business of devaluing a service they are happy with. Unlike UBER


So are you going to replace your current fleet of cars with more non self driving capable cars, with the hope they don't become boat anchors within a year or two?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> So are you going to replace your current fleet of cars with more non self driving capable cars, with the hope they don't become boat anchors within a year or two?


Man, you are so singular. You really need to enjoy a little more diversity and understand that what makes life interesting is the abundant personal choices one can make.

I bought my Tesla for the express reason that one day I hope it will be fully autonomous and will open my bespoke luxury transport business to more opportunity.

Do you have a Tesla? (Sorry for a challenging direct question there TP).

The very same top end clients I serve with the Tesla also travelled in a 7yr old Caprice this week whilst it was stuck with Overseas diplomats who booked it as daily hires. No big deal to them, they got a lovely driver, clean old car and the peace of mind one gets when when driven more by a friend than a robot.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Sydney Uber said:


> Do you have a Tesla? (Sorry for a challenging direct question there TP).
> 
> The very same top end clients I serve with the Tesla also travelled in a 7yr old Caprice this week whilst it was stuck with Overseas diplomats who booked it as daily hires. No big deal to them, they got a lovely driver, clean old car and the peace of mind one gets when when driven more by a friend than a robot.


He doesn't seem to answer direct questions but I suspect he owns an Escalade not a Tesla.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

goneubering said:


> He doesn't seem to answer direct questions but I suspect he owns an Escalade not a Tesla.


Are you kidding? He owns a Ford Fusion!


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Are you kidding? He owns a Ford Fusion!


A Fusion?? Isn't that there one of those fancy new fangled nucular cars??!!


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