# YES!! FED EX SETTLES FOR QUARTER BILLION IN IC VS EMPLOYEE LAWSUIT; BIG NEWS FOR UBER DRIVERS



## atomix (May 10, 2015)

Hey everybody,

Awesome news. Another corporate fraudster cries uncle. Ha Ha. 

Fed Ex agreed to huge settlement of an independent contractor vs employee misclassification lawsuit for whopping *$228 million. *

By settling rather than air out facts in court, Fed Ex essentially said they were full of horseshit entire time.
Corporations try to shaft the little guy--and gal--by shifting costs over to so-called independent operators. Do any of us feel independent at Uber?

This settlement, along with Florida's recent awarding of employee benefits to an Uber XL driver, https://uberpeople.net/threads/final...ers-florida-rules-uber-driver-employee.21286/, make it crytal clear that Uber stands on thin ice.

Thanks @Toby for originally reporting the story:

*FEDEX STRIKES DEAL TO SETTLE MISCLASSIFICATION LAWSUIT FOR $228 MILLION*
June 15 2015

FedEx Corp. struck a deal to pay $228 million to settle independent contractor litigation that is pending in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California. The settlement is subject to court approval.

Plaintiffs in the case, _Alexander v. FedEx Ground_, alleged *workers at FedEx Ground were classified as independent contractors but were in fact employees because of the extent of the company's control over their activities.*

"FedEx Ground faced a unique challenge in defending this case given the decision of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals last summer. This settlement resolves claims dating back to 2000 that concern a model FedEx Ground no longer operates," said Christine Richards, executive VP and general counsel of FedEx Corp.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal ruled last year that FedEx Groundmisclassified a class of 2,300 drivers as independent contractors instead of employees from 2000 to 2007.

_Transport Times_ reports Beth Ross, a California attorney who led counsel for the plaintiffs' group, said the *amount of the settlement appears to be the largest in recent memory in US employment cases.* Ross noted that US Department of Labor collected a total of $264 million in 2013 in all employment cases pursued by the agency.

*"It will absolutely be a precedent for other employment cases in the state*," _Transport Times_ quoted Ross as saying.

FedEx still faces lawsuits over the independent contractor status in other jurisdictions.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Good news but don't expect Uber to settle. Settling would upset the Uber Apple Cart by disrupting not only the Uber Business Model but also the Uber Valuations putting a damper on the Uber Shakedowns for Uber's investment capital.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Although it still has the warm fuzzy Sheen feel of WINNING!


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> Although it still has the warm fuzzy Sheen feel of WINNING!


Funny play on words, my friend. This news is huge, so deserves a toast of.......well, now......let's see--Tiger Blood!

Honestly, who knows how things will go with Uber's suit. By going to court though, Uber risks losing much, much more. After all, the company is worth much more than Fed Ex, yet is totally dependent on drivers for raking in the dough.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

atomix said:


> Funny play on words, my friend. This news is huge, so deserves a toast of.......well, now......let's see--Tiger Blood!
> 
> Honestly, who knows how things will go with Uber's suit. By going to court though, Uber risks losing much, much more. After all, the company is worth much more than Fed Ex, yet is totally dependent on drivers for raking in the dough.


By giving up tho(settling), Uber risks giving up a $50B valuation and investor capital.


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> By giving up tho(settling), Uber risks giving up a $50B valuation and investor capital.


Very true. But that was the risk Uber took when choosing to conduct business this way. Honest men have little to worry about, as the old saying goes.

Odds are significant portion of venture capital still flowing into Uber is earmarked for settling lawsuits. Will this be admitted to publicly, of course not. Think about how auto makers conduct extensive analysis when it comes to issuing vehicle re-calls. They have admitted to conducting cost-benefit analysis on whether to re-call or issue settlements in the event of product liability issues. Thing is, huge amounts of venture capital help shield Uber from legal issues. Uber owns little hard assets, what could it possibly need billions in additional venture capital for. Interesting question.


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

Being labeled hybrid employee, if that ever happened, would probably mean Uber would have to pay for stuff like unemployment, maintenance, gas, etc. That would reduce our costs huge.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

The only real costs for Uber associated with on-boarding New Drivers, are advertising, background checks ($7?) & sign-up/referral bonuses.
After that, costs for maintaining Active Drivers on the platform are marginal & minuscule. Most drivers more than pay for these costs in SRFs & commissions.

This is why Uber has never worried about the major problem of Driver Over Saturation. If there are significant costs of maintaining Active Drivers on the platform, the problem of Driver Over Saturation will be cease to be an issue!


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> The only costs real costs for Uber, associated with on-boarding New Drivers, are, advertising, background checks ($7?) & sign-up/referral bonuses.
> After that, costs for maintaining Active Drivers on the platform are marginal & minuscule. Most drivers more than pay for these costs in SRFs & commissions.
> 
> This is why Uber has never worried about the major problem of Driver Over Saturation. If there are significant costs of maintaining Active Drivers on the platform, the problem of Driver Over Saturation will be cease to be an issue!


Travis and crew stumbled-or stole?--on one hell of an ingenious business model. What businesses out there can legitimately shift most costs of running that business to the individuals bringing in the dough, very few I would guess. Uber has literally turned traditional businesss models on their head.

Optimus Uber was recently talking about how surges have begun booming again here in LA. He thinks it has to do with glut of recent onboards thinning out. Other drivers talked about this change as well.


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## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

They also email to get drivers that haven't driven in a while back. Emailing is a cheap way to boost the drivers back up


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

Optimus Uber said:


> They also email to get drivers that haven't driven in a while back. Emailing is a cheap way to boost the drivers back up
> View attachment 8540


Shameless huksterism. "Come right in, folks. Come right in. Have we got the cure for you."


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

Uber is going to lose this lawsuit or they will try to make an obscene offer to the plaintiffs to drop the suit so a precedent is not set. Good news is it's the same lawyer from the Fed-Ex suit who won't fall for any crap. Bad news for cali-uber drivers is if they become employees, uber will pass off the added expenses onto them. Good news for us legit cabbies, it won't be worth it for uber drivers to drive for uber when they do so. Good news for everyone, when uber goes IPO, let the stock swell and then sell it short, money in the bank.


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## IndyDriver (Nov 6, 2014)

Toby said:


> Uber is going to lose this lawsuit or they will try to make an obscene offer to the plaintiffs to drop the suit so a precedent is not set. Good news is it's the same lawyer from the Fed-Ex suit who won't fall for any crap. Bad news for cali-uber drivers is if they become employees, uber will pass off the added expenses onto them. Good news for us legit cabbies, it won't be worth it for uber drivers to drive for uber when they do so. Good news for everyone, when uber goes IPO, let the stock swell and then sell it short, money in the bank.


How would Uber pass the expenses onto Drivers? Employers are required to reimburse employees for business mileage, unlike when as IC's where its the driver's responsibility to log and deduct them on taxes.


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

IndyDriver said:


> How would Uber pass the expenses onto Drivers? Employers are required to reimburse employees for business mileage, unlike when as IC's where its the driver's responsibility to log and deduct them on taxes.


They will take a higher % and/or have some new fee, they have proven they will take as much $ from the drivers that they can. If you love uber so much why don't you still drive for them? or are you a shill?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Toby said:


> If you love uber so much why don't you still drive for them? or are you a shill?


Please cut out that hostility! IndyDriver is posing a legitimate question to you, and you obviously have No Idea of his stance on the issues.


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Please cut out that hostility! IndyDriver is posing a legitimate question to you, and you obviously have No Idea of his stance on the issues.


Not being hostile, legit questions. Don't assume a tone in text. No different than him asking how I know uber drivers are hailing fares by the seat of my pants.


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## IndyDriver (Nov 6, 2014)

Toby said:


> They will take a higher % and/or have some new fee, they have proven they will take as much $ from the drivers that they can. If you love uber so much why don't you still drive for them? or are you a shill?


Would still be better than current situation as they would be bound by minimum wage I believe. Many drivers don't even make that after expenses.


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

which i took no offense him asking


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## IndyDriver (Nov 6, 2014)

Toby said:


> Not being hostile, legit questions. Don't assume a tone in text. No different than him asking how I know uber drivers are hailing fares by the seat of my pants.


What is calling me a shill in one thread and a scab in another exactly then? I made an observation. If you'd take a look around the forum you'd see I am quite the opposite of either.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-ice-cream.1013/page-4#post-320068

Thanks chi1cabby


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

IndyDriver said:


> What is calling me a shill in one thread and a scab in another exactly then? I made an observation. If you'd take a look around the forum you'd see I am quite the opposite of either.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-ice-cream.1013/page-4#post-320068
> 
> Thanks chi1cabby


I asked if you were a shill, you can answer anyway you like. Business insurance policy is not commercial livery insurance which costs exponentially more so you were by definition a gypsy/scab, get over it.


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

IndyDriver said:


> What is calling me a shill in one thread and a scab in another exactly then? I made an observation. If you'd take a look around the forum you'd see I am quite the opposite of either.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-ice-cream.1013/page-4#post-320068
> 
> Thanks chi1cabby


You're a geologist who spent 6 months driving an uber car, I'm a cabbie. Maybe if I spent 6 months working at a gem store I would know how your business works.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

Uber plays the surge game with the onslaught of new drivers. 
A new driver gets garuantees so, what better way to subsidize those guarantees with surges to be sure new driver achieve $xxx per hour. 
Otherwise FUber would have to top-off their guarantee from their own funds, this way with surges the rider pays.
The UC (unemployment Compensation) is a Federal & State partnership. In the case here in Florida where most of you are aware. The FDEC ran a test and concluded that Uber has too much control over drivers thus, it did not pass the test for us driver to be classified as IC. 
Having said that, and the UC & IRS are in this partnership, the IRS will eventually find the same result. 
It may not be tomorrow, next week or next month but it will eventually come.


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## Toby (Dec 16, 2014)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Uber plays the surge game with the onslaught of new drivers.
> A new driver gets garuantees so, what better way to subsidize those guarantees with surges to be sure new driver achieve $xxx per hour.
> Otherwise FUber would have to top-off their guarantee from their own funds, this way with surges the rider pays.
> The UC (unemployment Compensation) is a Federal & State partnership. In the case here in Florida where most of you are aware. The FDEC ran a test and concluded that Uber has too much control over drivers thus, it did not pass the test for us driver to be classified as IC.
> ...


You're on the right track, there was a specific claim brought by a driver who was not able to drive (after an accident?) and the courts ruled he was due unemployment compensation.


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## IndyDriver (Nov 6, 2014)

Toby said:


> I asked if you were a shill, you can answer anyway you like. Business insurance policy is not commercial livery insurance which costs exponentially more so you were by definition a gypsy/scab, get over it.


Why not keep this discussion to the thread it originated in? This is my last post in this thread over the matter. My local govt welcomed Uber and Lyft and I operated 100% within the law. All i had to do was get my denial from my personal (which knew what I was doing) for a between trip accident and Uber's secondary would have to pay out as I carried comp/coll on my personal. Then I got proper rideshare insurance as soon as available. Get over it


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Uber plays the surge game with the onslaught of new drivers.
> A new driver gets garuantees so, what better way to subsidize those guarantees with surges to be sure new driver achieve $xxx per hour.
> Otherwise FUber would have to top-off their guarantee from their own funds, this way with surges the rider pays.
> The UC (unemployment Compensation) is a Federal & State partnership. In the case here in Florida where most of you are aware. The FDEC ran a test and concluded that Uber has too much control over drivers thus, it did not pass the test for us driver to be classified as IC.
> ...


OrlUberOffDriver, do you happen to have any updates regarding the Florida case, perhaps some links to articles or something? Uber had until June 3 to appeal the decision. Lastest news I found was from end of last month; nothing new, really. Anyway, multiple reporters reached out to various employment law experts, each said Uber has rough road ahead. Good. Rougher the better!


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

atomix said:


> OrlUberOffDriver, do you happen to have any updates regarding the Florida case, perhaps some links to articles or something? Uber had until June 3 to appeal the decision. Lastest news I found was from end of last month; nothing new, really. Anyway, multiple reporters reached out to various employment law experts, each said Uber has rough road ahead. Good. Rougher the better!


Uber had to June 9 to appeal. Non-the-less, the FDEO has made their ruling and will most likely stand. 
Uber tried to settle with Darrin Mcgillis. 
"During the filing process, McGillis continued to correspond with Uber and its attorney Jordan Cohen. The company offered the former driver a $5,000 settlement, according to emails McGillis provided to BuzzFeed News. McGillis countered, requesting $8,000. Uber did not respond."
http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiy...uber-driver-as-employee-says-he-is#.vtze8qxQV
I see this settling, if it has not already just to quash the bad publicity. 
Keep in mind this ruling by the FDEO ONLY applies to Darin McGillis and no one else.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

"ordered the company to reimburse Barbara Ann Berwick, a former Uber driver, $4,152.20 in expenses and other costs for the period when Ms. Berwick worked as a driver."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/b...ng-that-says-drivers-should-be-employees.html


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Uber had to June 9 to appeal. Non-the-less, the FDEO has made their ruling and will most likely stand.
> Uber tried to settle with Darrin Mcgillis.
> "During the filing process, McGillis continued to correspond with Uber and its attorney Jordan Cohen. The company offered the former driver a $5,000 settlement, according to emails McGillis provided to BuzzFeed News. McGillis countered, requesting $8,000. Uber did not respond."
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiy...uber-driver-as-employee-says-he-is#.vtze8qxQV
> ...


Power of precedent matters much in legal and government decisions. Darrin's favorable ruling no doubt will be looked at closely by many drivers, attorneys a like. Peeps are clearly getting wise to Uber's shady game, so expect more rulings to go against our favorite tech company. God, this positive change feels so good.


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

kalo said:


> "ordered the company to reimburse Barbara Ann Berwick, a former Uber driver, $4,152.20 in expenses and other costs for the period when Ms. Berwick worked as a driver."
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/b...ng-that-says-drivers-should-be-employees.html


kalo, awesome post, bro. Would you please make new thread around this article. This news really deserves own attention instead of being buried in another thread. Driver power is spreading like wildfire, spread the word.


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## Nooa (Dec 30, 2014)

*Drivers Win Legal Round Against Uber in California*

http://m.nasdaq.com/article/drivers-win-legal-round-against-uber-in-california-20150611-00789


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

Nooa said:


> *Drivers Win Legal Round Against Uber in California*
> 
> http://m.nasdaq.com/article/drivers-win-legal-round-against-uber-in-california-20150611-00789


My friends, driver power is spreading.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> By giving up tho(settling), Uber risks giving up a $50B valuation and investor capital.


yeap
and it'll start to drop as more of these types of lawsuits go in the opposite of Uber's favor
still amazes me how they have so many people/business backing and giving Uber money,when they know Uber's whole business model is built around skirting regulations. When more Uberes have to get special licenses, permits,or require full commerical insurance, the business model crumbles.

Right now in the US uber is doing pretty good skirting regulations. But in a lot of places, independant towns/cities they have set regulations against Uber that make its part drivers now want to do it. Just not worth it monetarily. When regulation spreads like wildfire Uber is done. or when we get classified as employees. Whichever comes first


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> yeap
> and it'll start to drop as more of these types of lawsuits go in the opposite of Uber's favor
> still amazes me how they have so many people/business backing and giving Uber money,when they know Uber's whole business model is built around skirting regulations. When more Uberes have to get special licenses, permits,or require full commerical insurance, the business model crumbles.
> 
> Right now in the US uber is doing pretty good skirting regulations. But in a lot of places, independant towns/cities they have set regulations against Uber that make its part drivers now want to do it. Just not worth it monetarily. When regulation spreads like wildfire Uber is done. or when we get classified as employees. Whichever comes first


Well said!


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## Nooa (Dec 30, 2014)

Not that I think we are employees (we are not). . But Uber does not treat us as independent contractors either. No company that has independent contractors would lower rates until their own PARTNERS LOOSE MONEY.


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

Nooa said:


> Not that I think we are employees (we are not). . But Uber does not treat us as independent contractors either. No company that has independent contractors would lower rates until their own PARTNERS LOOSE MONEY.


Well, with Cali and Florida passing some precedent setting rulings in driver's favor, things are beginning to go our way. Law is calling Uber out on it it's nonsense.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

atomix said:


> Well, with Cali and Florida passing some precedent setting rulings in driver's favor, things are beginning to go our way. Law is calling Uber out on it it's nonsense.


Yea! Nonsense!


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## UberLou (May 5, 2015)

IndyDriver said:


> How would Uber pass the expenses onto Drivers? Employers are required to reimburse employees for business mileage, unlike when as IC's where its the driver's responsibility to log and deduct them on taxes.


My full-time job away from Uber is in Payroll. I am a CPP (Certified Payroll Professional) and a member of the APA (American Payroll Association) and I can tell you for fact there are ways around paying mileage, even for professional drivers. I don't like it any more than the next person but if we become employees there are ways Uber can and will still exploit us drivers. If we are employees I will no longer drive for Uber. I believe we should stay IC's.

First thing you will see is more imaginary "Local Offices" pop up depending on the state. If the base of operations is within a certain mile range and they describe the "position" a certain way we will not get reimbursed mileage and/or gas.

It all sounds wonderful at face value but in my humble opinion we should stay unhappy contractors.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

UberLou said:


> My full-time job away from Uber is in Payroll. I am a CPP (Certified Payroll Professional) and a member of the APA (American Payroll Association) and I can tell you for fact there are ways around paying mileage, even for professional drivers. I don't like it any more than the next person but if we become employees there are ways Uber can and will still exploit us drivers. If we are employees I will no longer drive for Uber. I believe we should stay IC's.
> 
> First thing you will see is more imaginary "Local Offices" pop up depending on the state. If the base of operations is within a certain mile range and they describe the "position" a certain way we will not get reimbursed mileage and/or gas.
> 
> It all sounds wonderful at face value but in my humble opinion we should stay unhappy contractors.


1. Good post.
2. Some are unhappy contractors but most are Uber Broke, Uber Lied to & Uber Cheated contractors.


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

UberLou said:


> My full-time job away from Uber is in Payroll. I am a CPP (Certified Payroll Professional) and a member of the APA (American Payroll Association) and I can tell you for fact there are ways around paying mileage, even for professional drivers. I don't like it any more than the next person but if we become employees there are ways Uber can and will still exploit us drivers. If we are employees I will no longer drive for Uber. I believe we should stay IC's.
> 
> First thing you will see is more imaginary "Local Offices" pop up depending on the state. If the base of operations is within a certain mile range and they describe the "position" a certain way we will not get reimbursed mileage and/or gas.
> 
> It all sounds wonderful at face value but in my humble opinion we should stay unhappy contractors.





UberRidiculous said:


> 1. Good post.
> 2. Some are unhappy contractors but most are Uber Broke, Uber Lied to & Uber Cheated contractors.


No doubt Uber will try every way possible to exploit us, regardless of how these legal issues turn out. At least they are being held accountable. Thing is, we, as drivers, must always protect our interests, at all costs; Uber certainly won't be doing it for us.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

atomix said:


> No doubt Uber will try every way possible to exploit us, regardless of how these legal issues turn out. At least they are being held accountable. Thing is, we, as drivers, must always protect our interests, at all costs; Uber certainly won't be doing it for us.


Yeah! This will spread on the federal level. Once we are deemed employees FUber will be held more accountable up to and including having to pay us minimum wage plus, expenses and we will be able to form a union. 
So, UberON !!!! FUber you are on notice!!!


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Yeah! This will spread on the federal level. Once we are deemed employees FUber will be held more accountable up to and including having to pay us minimum wage plus, expenses and we will be able to form a union.
> So, UberON !!!! FUber you are on notice!!!


Wave the flags, brothers and sisters. The driver hordes are coming.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

atomix said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Awesome news. Another corporate fraudster cries uncle. Ha Ha.
> 
> ...


^^^
Well, with all due respect...
Corporations don't pay fines and they don't pay taxes... YOU pay them with the increased fees, fines and taxes charged to those corporations, which makes them less and less competitive in the American marketplace and more inclined to move offshore leaving American jobs in the dust. 
UPS has been moving more and more of their hubs to other more tax friendly countries and expanding those in countries where they already exist. 
So, people sit there and cheer in front of their TV's while swilling down a beer and say, "YES... the big bad corporation was screwed"... just like with ATT this week, but in reality the changes are negligible and in most cases damaging to the consumer who ultimately pays the fines.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

With all due respect, America is doing a lot wrong. Not convinced protecting corporations from fines and taxes is the answer. Sounds like rubbish to me. 

Here's a 2014 article that mentions Australia and the U.S. and Europe in economic comparisons.

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/18/what_america_can_learn_from_europe_about_income_inequality_partner/

*Here are some key quotes from the article:*
_"Remember the famous line "I'll have what she's having" from the movie "When Harry Met Sally"? It is apt in our context: Americans need what northern Europeans have"._
*Okay, HERE'S THE GEM:* _"Indeed, comprehensive employer labor costs and wages have grown roughly apace with productivity there. They now average $10 per hour more in purchasing power parity terms than in the United States"._
"_OECD statistics show that the top 10% of Americans receive $16 dollars in income for every $1 received by the lowest tenth. That is more skewed than the income distribution in Portugal and nearly comparable to Turkey, two economies dominated by thin layers of the affluent. The distortion of U.S. income distribution is twice as severe as any other rich democracy."_
*OMG I love SALON:* _"That is why Australia and every nation in northern Europe has leapfrogged the United States to now have more skilled workforces, in contrast to the situation in 1998"._
*This is how the article ends:*
_"Doing so requires acknowledging that other countries' models have something to offer and then overcoming resistance from those who benefit most from the current allocation of gains from growth.
Game on, American people"._
****
* Uber On America?*


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## atomix (May 10, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> With all due respect, America is doing a lot wrong. Not convinced protecting corporations from fines and taxes is the answer. Sounds like rubbish to me.
> 
> Here's a 2014 article that mentions Australia and the U.S. and Europe in economic comparisons.
> 
> ...


Survival of the fittest.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

atomix said:


> Survival of the fittest.


Survival of the richest. Money and Power go hand in hand. Omg, I better not get started!  Yikes.

Clinton/Warren 2016! 
Campaign slogan should be: 
Break Them ALL Up Into Little Pieces!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber will never operate having drivers as employees.never


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

GUber might. 
Google buys Uber = GUber


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## Reasonable (May 17, 2015)

Lol, holy cow. Company's don't really care about anyone but they're share holders being content on there profit margin. That's the reason why uber remains illegal and we get screwed with fines and tickets. Sure they will possibly pay the fines but over all we are stock with the record and they get off Scott free. I read every post at work when bored and I think it's hilarious how people think uber is going to create more money for them. No folks instead of the 80 cents or whatever per mile you think you get. Delivery will probably be 50 cents per mile cause you don't pick up passengers. You complain about the abuse and lack of pay or tip options but your really not doing anything about except allowing the rich to become richer and take advantage of people in need of cash flow. ( Again this is just my Freakin Opinion. )


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

atomix said:


> Survival of the fittest.


Well right now being rich is the fittest. If the common people revolted being rich would suddenly become very unfit.

If you're going to make comparisons with evolution theory then you should know that Mother Nature can turn what is "fit" today on its head overnight. All it takes is for the environment to change.


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## Reasonable (May 17, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Well right now being rich is the fittest. If the common people revolted being rich would suddenly become very unfit.
> 
> If you're going to make comparisons with evolution theory then you should know that Mother Nature can turn what is "fit" today on its head overnight. All it takes is for the environment to change.


Now of course we aren't talking about mother nature. We are talking about human nature fuzzyelvis. Mother nature being an entirely different beast. Let's attempt to stay in topic in regards to what was said. Otherwise we can get completely off tangent just to threw people off to the real issue that was discused. Unless that was your goal. If it was mission failed.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Reasonable said:


> Now of course we aren't talking about mother nature. We are talking about human nature fuzzyelvis. Mother nature being an entirely different beast. Let's attempt to stay in topic in regards to what was said. Otherwise we can get completely off tangent just to threw people off to the real issue that was discused. Unless that was your goal. If it was mission failed.


Atomix brought it up. I just responded to his post.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> With all due respect, America is doing a lot wrong. Not convinced protecting corporations from fines and taxes is the answer. Sounds like rubbish to me.
> 
> Here's a 2014 article that mentions Australia and the U.S. and Europe in economic comparisons.
> 
> ...


^^^
A LOT of complete untruths... particularly when it comes to Salon. 
All of Northern Europe's economies are in or soon will be in the tank. 
France, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal are all tanking and every time that the EU has to bail them out or extend their loans, even OUR stock market is hit by a bolt of lightening... like on Wednesday. 
Germany is having enormous energy problems right now as we speak with no solution in sight. 
Northern Europe's industries are teetering on the brink because of entitlements that can't be paid to retired workers. 
Workers are actually rioting, as in Greece because of the proposed retirement age increase from 55 to 60 or 62... can't remember off hand... not that it matters much. 
In France, people are actually taking their money out of the bank and relocating their accounts to other countries. 
And, if you're ready for this, unless you you're so buried up the 'you know what' with Salon or HuffPo (LOL), investors are actually investing in NEGATIVE interest securities. 
I wonder what Salon's sources were for that article... maybe The Daily Worker?


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Whatever. So you're saying other countries have troubles. Bottomline the U.S. has bigger troubles. Someone from Australia said to me recently they couldn't believe our minimum wage was so low that someone has to work an hour for a crappy fast food meal. That article confirmed that remark by stating their wages go $10/hr farther than U.S. wages. Specifically it said they have $10/hr *MORE* purchasing power. America is on the downslide!
Clinton/Warren 2016!


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> Whatever. So you're saying other countries have troubles. Bottomline the U.S. has bigger troubles. Someone from Australia said to me recently they couldn't believe our minimum wage was so low that someone has to work an hour for a crappy fast food meal. That article confirmed that remark by stating their wages go $10/hr farther than U.S. wages. Specifically it said they have $10/hr *MORE* purchasing power. America is on the downslide!
> Clinton/Warren 2016!


^^^
Ok, no biggie... I'm for making the minimum wage $20.00/hr. 
So what? 
Is that person working fast food actually worth $20.00 an hour? 
What training does it take to slap a patty on a bun? 
Does it take the same training and certification that a life guard has at a pool this Summer... who also works for minimum wage? 
Or, does it take the same training as some person learning the auto parts business by putting parts on a shelf in a warehouse? 
Does it take the same training as the person that I saw when I was at BK the other day and she sneezed in her little surgical gloved hand and kept putting the burgers together? 
Whatever...
As they say in their commercials, "You can have it your way".


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## Reasonable (May 17, 2015)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Ok, no biggie... I'm for making the minimum wage $20.00/hr.
> So what?
> Is that person working fast food actually worth $20.00 an hour?
> ...


Lmfao


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## Berliner (Oct 29, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> All of Northern Europe's economies are in or soon will be in the tank.
> France, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal are all tanking and every time that the EU has to bail them out or extend their loans, even OUR stock market is hit by a bolt of lightening... like on Wednesday.
> 
> Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal don´t belong to Nothern Europe, they belong to South Europe.
> ...


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Maybe so, Berliner... but they're still in the EU, and after all, wasn't that the idea of reuniting Europe? 
Germany is screaming like holy hell about having to prop up the recalcitrant countries. 
Apparently I do have more knowledge about your energy situation. 
I don't have to explain... just listen to a few of Angela's speeches concerning energy. 
I'm not going to spend 20 minutes searching for links to educate you.

By the way, can you believe that my CLA250 would only qualify for X and not even Select? 
And I have just over 10 Grand in options. LOL. 
My parents left me a pristine 600 (W100)... not the Grosser but the short four door version. 
Nah... it's too old. Uber would never go for it. 
Chrome all over the place (Actually stainless steel), and even a hydraulic sun roof. LOL.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Oh Yea! Just wait until Elizabeth Warren becomes president! Girl Power! lol You may have the next 16 years of great female presidents.


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## Berliner (Oct 29, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> By the way, can you believe that my CLA250 would only qualify for X and not even Select?
> And I have just over 10 Grand in options. LOL.
> My parents left me a pristine 600 (W100)... not the Grosser but the short four door version.
> Nah... it's too old. Uber would never go for it.
> Chrome all over the place (Actually stainless steel), and even a hydraulic sun roof. LOL.


I can believe, because I know they are idiots.

W100: whow, the last one I´ve seen on the road must be 20 years ago. Take care about it.

BTW: I listen Angie every day. Our gas price is at time the lowest since four years. There is only a debate how to carry the electricity from offshore Baltic- and Northsea to Bavaria, means from north to south. Nobody likes overland power cable, but this is a luxury problem.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> Oh Yea! Just wait until Elizabeth Warren becomes president! Girl Power! lol You may have the next 16 years of great female presidents.


^^^
OMG!!!


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Berliner said:


> I can believe, because I know they are idiots.
> 
> W100: whow, the last one I´ve seen on the road must be 20 years ago. Take care about it.
> 
> BTW: I listen Angie every day. Our gas price is at time the lowest since four years. There is only a debate how to carry the electricity from offshore Baltic- and Northsea to Bavaria, means from north to south. Nobody likes overland power cable, but this is a luxury problem.


^^^
Electricity is a luxury? Hmmm...
I sold that Benz about 10 years ago. 
Dark metallic blue with new suspension bags.... cost me about 10 thousand bux. 
You should have seen the wood and the leather. 
Made me feel rich just driving it to WalMart. LOL
Not a rattle or a squeak in it... almost silent at 70 mph, considering that it was shaped like a brick. 
I kick myself every day for selling it, but I had to. 
It went to a good home in Los Angeles. 
A collector with a warehouse with about 20 other cars.


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## Berliner (Oct 29, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Electricity is a luxury? Hmmm...


There is a misunderstanding: the problem is how to transport the electricity:
overland = cheap, but ugly in the landscape
or under the earth = expensive.

Sorry for your Benz.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> Oh Yea! Just wait until Elizabeth Warren becomes president! Girl Power! lol You may have the next 16 years of great female presidents.


^^^
I really don't vote on the basis of genitalia. 
But I would have voted for Golda Meir.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> I really don't vote on the basis of genitalia.
> But I would have voted for Golda Meir.


Neither do I, I think John McCain owes the world an apology for Sarah Palin. 
I looked up Golda, she looks smart.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> OMG!!!


^^^
Love 'ya kid...
We might be on (sort of) different ends of the political spectrum, but I'm fighting for the same thing as you are. 
There's enough business for all of us out there. 
I have about 850 "regulars" that wake me up at 2:AM sometimes to say that they are flying in tomorrow (On my supposed day off) but I pull the keys to my car and go there anyway... especially the ones that fly in and I pick up over at Signature, the private plane term. Invariably a 100 buck tip even if it's a 10 minute trip to the MGM. 
AHHHHH.... those G650's that make London to Las Vegas in one hop...
Love 'em!


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> Neither do I, I think John McCain owes the world an apology for Sarah Palin.
> I looked up Golda, she looks smart.


Yup, yup, yup. 
Golda was a teacher in... I think, something like Toledo. 
Can't remember without Googling it.


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## Rubyson&sme (Dec 1, 2014)

atomix said:


> Funny play on words, my friend. This news is huge, so deserves a toast of.......well, now......let's see--Tiger Blood!
> 
> Honestly, who knows how things will go with Uber's suit. By going to court though, Uber risks losing much, much more. After all, the company is worth much more than Fed Ex, yet is totally dependent on drivers for raking in the dough.


FedEx value is real tangible and convertible to cash. Believe me when I say though, I'm no fan of FedEx or others like its ilk. Uber's value is purely business investor's strategic flag pole banners and smoke and mirrors speculation. Until it actually has a tangible stock, security block, financial note, fixed property, real asset or any other form of actual real form of exchangeable coin of the realm, it is worth nothing, well not much. Can it be quantified for its corporate assets, sure, which are not worth much, in scale of comparison to a FedEx or the like. Its worth as much as they can get you to believes its worth minus reality. Do you want to buy in? Me either. Actually, Uber and all ride hail entities, are worth only the value of its website and corporate assets. That would be worth in the millions, maybe, not billions. But I'm just speculating like everyone else, right?

Minus reality, its value and that of the other ride hail entities, is wildly speculative because it is still not answerable, they believe tio any regulation (except what they choose to respond to), because they are a what do they call themselves a technology network? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

If the entirety of ride hail drivers community associated across the board chose to act as one and then went on some type of labor supply shortage it would cause the public to act. If they did that, within the 1st say...3 to 7 days Uber, Lyft and the others entities would be a giant shivering paranoid attacking monster. But if the associations remained committed and vigilant, they would, the entities, would have to cave. Because after a few days the buying public would start to steer the agenda by voicing their collective displeasure. After that initial period, The entity's alleged value would likely start to plummet precipitately with possibly, no chance of recovering by all entities. And the entities that survived would have to deal with the associations and possibly government regulation.

But of course, those ride hail entities know this and it will not happen, because all drivers would not stop driving all at once. After all its all about me 1st, right? All the taxi/TNC/ride hail/others would be best served to act as one. So as to kill the IC question finally and forever all together) and I mean all associated drivers would have to stop driving and not drive until the entities relented somehow. Or if they were forced to by a properly mandated government agency which is even less likely to happen.

Just one opinion...

There are a number of ride hail (ride share/TNC/taxi/Uber/Lyft/others) association websites that you can get additional info at;

Here's a very good one and others
https://rideassociation.wordpress.com/

http://www.cadateamsters.org/
http://www.teamsters117.org/transportation_network_drivers_vote_to_form_association


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