# car seats



## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

I am new here. Its my first post so go easy on me. It seems that pax not having car seats seems to be a problem. They seemed rather surpised that they need them. One had a toddler and a newborn infant. I roll up and knew that I was going to cancel. I ask if they have a car seat or booster seat. State law states that the child has to be either 4 foot 9 or 8 years old to not be in a booster seat. I guess as a parent I would want the best for my children. I had one lady state that her child was tall enough. So I repeated back so you 2 year old is 4 foot 9 and over 8 years old. dead silence. They ask me what they are suppose to do and if they get charged....hahah I wish they would...I guess this is my rant


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

I tell them I will cancel so they won't get charged, if they say they don't want to get charged when they cancel. By the time the conversation is done, it's close to the 5 minute mark. I wait a little and cancel to get my fee.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

smithers54 said:


> They seemed rather surpised that they need them.


Buses, taxis, trains, airplanes, shuttles....
They've never needed them before when not traveling in their vehicle.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

I just purchased a 12$ booster seat







. There is a space above the hybrid battery in the trunk that it fits nicely.

Just not worth the debate anymore .. and may lead to a few tips by having it . I decided to get it after taking a single mom to church with a 4 year old ? And she struggled to get hers out of her Car (broken down) ..and it was a big piece of crap ..was afraid it was going to rip my seats.

To each their own..for me long term just think it will work out better


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

dauction said:


> I just purchased a 12$ booster seat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Sure that might be good enough for a 4 year old, but any child under 4, a booster seat isn't good for.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

MadePenniesToday said:


> Sure that might be good enough for a 4 year old, but any child under 4, a booster seat isn't good for.


Morning MPT ...I haven't had any issues with Parents not using a 5 harness seat for kids under -3-4 .. It's the 4,5,6 and even 7 year olds year olds that Parents tend to think the the kid is "old enough" to not need a booster seat.

You have to be a special breed of stupid to not have areal car seat for a 2 year old


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

Good morning to you too.



dauction said:


> You have to be a special breed of stupid to not have areal car seat for a 2 year old


 Special breeds are taking over the world.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

dauction said:


> Morning MPT ...I haven't had any issues with Parents not using a 5 harness seat for kids under -3-4 .. It's the 4,5,6 and even 7 year olds year olds that Parents tend to think the the kid is "old enough" to not need a booster seat.
> 
> You have to be a special breed of stupid to not have areal car seat for a 2 year old


Happens all the time with under 2. People who have been used to taking taxi's think the same rules apply. In a Taxi (at least in NY) a mother can legally hold a baby on her lap. Many are unaware that the rules for Uber/Lyft are different. Plus, they are used to the many drivers who take them anyway.

I don't take them without the proper seat. Talk to them for 5 minutes......cancel......collect fee.


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

I have gotten the answer well the other driver took us....well thats great....I am not the other driver and I am not getting several tickets for your $3.64 ride...

I pretty sure these people wouldnt tip


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

smithers54 said:


> I have gotten the answer well the other driver took us....well thats great....I am not the other driver and I am not getting several tickets for your $3.64 ride...
> 
> I pretty sure these people wouldnt tip


Won't tip and won't care if you get a ticket and points on your license. Couple weeks ago I had a lady I really felt sorry for. She had three kids all under 5 and was having a struggle trying to control them. No car seats so no ride. She started crying. Told her to simply call a taxi.

On my way to the next ping down the road the city police had a safety checkpoint set up!!! OMG so glad I didn't take her. Would have been 3 @ $250 = $750 in tickets. 3 @ 2pts on license = 6 points. AND if the police officer felt like it a charge for endangering the welfare of a minor.

Will never ever ever break this rule.


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

No car seat, no ride. period. It's BS that passengers don't know that a car seat is required, if a parent tried to play this on me, it would just piss me off even more. I would not recommend purchasing a car seat for those passengers. That may put the liability on you if there is any injury. Note - I'm a parent, not a lawyer, so YMMV.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I had the same happen to me a few days ago. They were not happy and yes another Uber driver happily came and picked them up.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

During the summer time, I hustle in a certain Falls area in the Niagara Region...

(Dont want to give it away because I dont need ants hustling my honeypot)

...and I carry 2 booster seats with me because I get tons of requests from people with small children and no car seat. 

If they dont tip, they get an automatic one star.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

smithers54 said:


> I am new here. Its my first post so go easy on me. It seems that pax not having car seats seems to be a problem. They seemed rather surpised that they need them. One had a toddler and a newborn infant. I roll up and knew that I was going to cancel. I ask if they have a car seat or booster seat. State law states that the child has to be either 4 foot 9 or 8 years old to not be in a booster seat. I guess as a parent I would want the best for my children. I had one lady state that her child was tall enough. So I repeated back so you 2 year old is 4 foot 9 and over 8 years old. dead silence. They ask me what they are suppose to do and if they get charged....hahah I wish they would...I guess this is my rant


Get them to cancel, or wait the 5 minutes and cancel for no child seat. Get your fee. If they cry, "But why should I get charged when I'm not getting the riiiiiide?" You can respond, "You have a kid. You KNOW you're SUPPOSED to have a seat. That's why they call it a 'Cancel Fee' instead of a 'Fare."


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> Get them to cancel, or wait the 5 minutes and cancel for no child seat. Get your fee. If they cry, "But why should I get charged when I'm not getting the riiiiiide?" You can respond, "You have a kid. You KNOW you're SUPPOSED to have a seat. That's why they call it a 'Cancel Fee' instead of a 'Fare."


They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Demon said:


> They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


Any of them that gave birth in the US know. They couldn't take the kid home from the hospital without one, and every single OB-Gyn or midwife tells their pregnant patients they NEED one in cars. First visit to the pediatrician also means bringing the infant carrier/car seat and that doctor tells them too.

Even if they didn't give birth here, being an immigrant doesn't mean they're stupid. Don't equate not being able to speak English well with being unintelligent. As a friend once pointed out, it just means they know or are learning at least one more language than I do (your knowledge may be different, I know). He'll, when I came home from a cruise to Bermuda, the customs agent said something to a couple that had a toddler with them. Reminded them that here they needed a car seat for her. (They said the friend picking them up had one - who knows if it was true or not.)

If they try to say they didn't know, they're scamming. Plain and simple. No one wants to have to carry one, even a folding booster seat, around with them all the time. They're heavy, bulky, and a PITA.

Too bad. It's all part of traveling with a kid here in the USA.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Demon said:


> They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


LOL Aborable.

There is no trying here, I see you with small kids and no car seat, I am collecting a No Show Fee.

The fact that you used the 'they dont know' defense is also laughable. When they receive that $5 cancellation fee, lesson learned.

Class Dismissed.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Be careful taking kids without car seat. If you are breaking Uber rule they don't have to cover you if your in a accident with that child.


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## grayspinner (Sep 8, 2015)

islanddriver said:


> Be careful taking kids without car seat. If you are breaking Uber rule they don't have to cover you if your in a accident with that child.


That's the least of your problems.

In many states you can be charged with child endangerment or, if a child dies in an accident, vehicular homicide.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

No car seat, cancel... just tell them insurance reasons... same as minors 
Talk slowly and drive away, then cancel


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> Any of them that gave birth in the US know. They couldn't take the kid home from the hospital without one, and every single OB-Gyn or midwife tells their pregnant patients they NEED one in cars. First visit to the pediatrician also means bringing the infant carrier/car seat and that doctor tells them too.
> 
> Even if they didn't give birth here, being an immigrant doesn't mean they're stupid. Don't equate not being able to speak English well with being unintelligent. As a friend once pointed out, it just means they know or are learning at least one more language than I do (your knowledge may be different, I know). He'll, when I came home from a cruise to Bermuda, the customs agent said something to a couple that had a toddler with them. Reminded them that here they needed a car seat for her. (They said the friend picking them up had one - who knows if it was true or not.)
> 
> ...


No doctor or customs agent tells a parent they need to bring their own car seat when using Uber. It isn't even in the Uber pax TOS, which means a PAX can't be charged for not having one.


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

ignorantia legis neminem excusat. Know your laws, whether the passenger knows or not, you are the one getting the ticket.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Interesting I looked up Florida laws and learned something new. Under 4 car seat required. 4-5 booster generally required. However a seat belt is sufficient if they are not your kids and you are transporting them in an emergency or as a favor.

See page 11: https://www3.flhsmv.gov/handbooks/englishdriverhandbook.pdf


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## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

Law change this year in my state...it’s now a $432 fine in California for driving a kid without a booster seat!


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Merc7186 said:


> LOL Aborable.
> 
> There is no trying here, I see you with small kids and no car seat, I am collecting a No Show Fee.
> 
> ...


This is why I keep returning to this forum. There is no one more entitled than an Uber driver and reading these posts is always entertaining.

You can't charge a pax for something when you decide to cancel per the TOS.


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## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

Yes we a


Demon said:


> This is why I keep returning to this forum. There is no one more entitled than an Uber driver and reading these posts is always entertaining.
> 
> You can't charge a pax for something when you decide to cancel per the TOS.


Yes, we should be "entitled" to at least $5 for a cancellation fee. Don't give a damn about the TOS. If I waste time, gas, wear & tear plus the aggrivation of having to cancel to someone's face- I expect to be compensated.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Demon said:


> No doctor or customs agent tells a parent they need to bring their own car seat when using Uber. It isn't even in the Uber pax TOS, which means a PAX can't be charged for not having one.


You can cancel because they're asking you to break the law.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> You can cancel because they're asking you to break the law.


They aren't asking you to break the law. The driver still has the discretion to cancel the ride.



May H. said:


> Yes we a
> 
> Yes, we should be "entitled" to at least $5 for a cancellation fee. Don't give a damn about the TOS. If I waste time, gas, wear & tear plus the aggrivation of having to cancel to someone's face- I expect to be compensated.


It's your decision to waste your time, gas, wear & tear and choose not to give them a ride. If you choose to cancel you're choosing to do it for free.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Demon said:


> No doctor or customs agent tells a parent they need to bring their own car seat when using Uber. It isn't even in the Uber pax TOS, which means a PAX can't be charged for not having one.


You are correct. They tell them they needed if they're going to be transporting the child in a car.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> You are correct. They tell them they needed if they're going to be transporting the child in a car.


If they're telling them that they're wrong and that has nothing to do with Uber.


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

well grey spinner that is the way it is here....no seatbelt and child endangerment...which I believe is a Felony here.....Not worth losing my job. and no this isn't my full time job....


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Taxis are exempt from the car seat requirement, market dependent.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Morning Guys ..well that $12 booster seat made my day yesterday... Woman with 3-4 year old....I said "she needs to be in a booster" .. She says .."do you have one " 

Me .."Why yes I do !!" Made her day and mine


Then after I dropped them off I picked up 4 people at the Bar ..the booster seat was still in the back ..asked if anyone need it (loosen them up) ..put it in the trunk explained to them why I had it and the woman up front kept go on about how cool that was ...dropped them off 10 blocks ot the next Bar $4 ride ..$5 tip

Anyway..just made my day that ...no arguments ..no drama and everyone appreciated it


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I see in the Orlando area Uber has options for cars with child seats. Why don't they do this everywhere. If a driver chooses to have one let him get paid a little extra.


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## METRO3 (Sep 3, 2017)

Please remember the stroller seat is not a baby car seat by itself. If it's one of the stroller/baby car seat then it has a base that goes into your car first






I've had parents bring just the stroller seat and try and wrap my seatbelts around the damn thing. Nooo! That's not a proper baby car seat. U need the base #outtheygo


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## familydriver (Sep 1, 2018)

After cancel a few XL trips I recycled a booster from my brother. I've earned a little more tip after that. Problem about car seats, I've never got one but my rule is: no car seat, no ride, period.


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## CaptainToo (Dec 5, 2017)

METRO3 said:


> Please remember the stroller seat is not a baby car seat by itself. If it's one of the stroller/baby car seat then it has a base that goes into your car first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've had pax come to the car with a baby seat, like the seat in the picture, where the seat had seatbelt slots on its edges. If you look carefully at the seat edge, you can see the car seat belt slot..

You place the seat in the backseat, child facing backwards, fully extend and retract the seat belt, placing the lower part of the seatbelt through the slots and sung the belt up. No base for the seat. I've accepted these riders as the seat seemed to be designed for this use, and is snuggly secured, does anyone know whether such products are legal carriers? How can I tell?


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


By far the most irritating poster on this forum. Seems he/she/it continually wants to stir the pot. Thank goodness for the ignore button which I'll be using shortly.


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## METRO3 (Sep 3, 2017)

CaptainToo said:


> I've had pax come to the car with a baby carrier, like the seat in the picture, where the seat had seatbelt slots on its edges. You place the seat in the backseat, child facing backwards, fully extend and retract the seat belt, placing the lower part of the seatbelt through the slots and sung the belt up. No base for the seat. I've accepted these riders as the seat seemed to be designed for this use, and is snuggly secured, does anyone know whether such products are legal carriers? How can I tell?


Try this site
https://www.verywellfamily.com/types-of-baby-car-seats-2758097

Ya i dont think that thing will properly keep the child in place in event of an accident . It would need a bucket for it to properly stay in place.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

dauction said:


> Morning MPT ...I haven't had any issues with Parents not using a 5 harness seat for kids under -3-4 .. It's the 4,5,6 and even 7 year olds year olds that Parents tend to think the the kid is "old enough" to not need a booster seat.
> 
> You have to be a special breed of stupid to not have areal car seat for a 2 year old


Some states (like Florida) specifically list under 5 ad it being a requirement.


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## Las Vegas Dude (Sep 3, 2018)

I wouldn’t use my own car seat ever, if something failed or a kid got hurt in an accident a lawyer would have fun with that.


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

That's where I am at Vegas. My kids are beyond that point...cya in this day and age..


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## CaptainToo (Dec 5, 2017)

Given the frequency that I see pax waiting with kids and no child seats, you would think Uber/Lyft would allow riders to pay a extra fee to get a driver who has a suitable seat...just another strange failure on Uber and Lyft.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

CaptainToo said:


> Given the frequency that I see pax waiting with kids and no child seats, you would think Uber/Lyft would allow riders to pay a extra fee to get a driver who has a suitable seat...just another strange failure on Uber and Lyft.


Uber has an option, I saw it in Orlando this past weekend. Not sure why it is not an option everywhere.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> Uber has an option, I saw it in Orlando this past weekend. Not sure why it is not an option everywhere.


WDW has a way above normal number of fares with children under 5, it's an option because it WAS such a huge problem, drivers could make a killing shuffling car seat fares at the parks.. still can actually.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

dauction said:


> Morning MPT ...I haven't had any issues with Parents not using a 5 harness seat for kids under -3-4 .. It's the 4,5,6 and even 7 year olds year olds that Parents tend to think the the kid is "old enough" to not need a booster seat.
> 
> You have to be a special breed of stupid to not have areal car seat for a 2 year old


I had an Africa lady with dress, shawl, and other assortment of flippery hide a baby on her body. She sat right behind me and guess who started crying midway through the trip.



Demon said:


> No doctor or customs agent tells a parent they need to bring their own car seat when using Uber. It isn't even in the Uber pax TOS, which means a PAX can't be charged for not having one.


Ignorance is no defense for breaking the law. People find that out the hard way all the time.


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## Ptuberdriver (Dec 2, 2018)

I think its stupid that u guys are that greedy to charge a parent without a carseat. Its bad enough that they now have to wait for a taxi but getting charged $5 for an issue like that, Seriously(i say that if its a first time, obviously if they do it often then give them a hard lesson)? 
Its your breed of drivers that bring the rest of us down, and will keep it down because poor customer service. 

If they dont have a carseat after asking, cancel dont charge them(if a first timer)and go get ur next ping.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Ptuberdriver said:


> I think its stupid that u guys are that greedy to charge a parent without a carseat. Its bad enough that they now have to wait for a taxi but getting charged $5 for an issue like that, Seriously(i say that if its a first time, obviously if they do it often then give them a hard lesson)?
> Its your breed of drivers that bring the rest of us down, and will keep it down because poor customer service.
> 
> If they dont have a carseat after asking, cancel dont charge them(if a first timer)and go get ur next ping.


How would you determine it's their first time or 10th time ordering a ride share without having a proper car seat for their child? What difference does it make?

It's not greedy to charge whether it's their first time or 10th time. The driver has spent time and gas to get to them for pickup and upon arrival find they cannot take the rider with child due to laws. Knowing the law goes both ways. To the parent and the driver. The driver knows and chooses not to break the law. The parent should know and not expect those laws to be broken. The driver should not be expected to eat their costs.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ptuberdriver said:


> I think its stupid that u guys are that greedy to charge a parent without a carseat. Its bad enough that they now have to wait for a taxi but getting charged $5 for an issue like that, Seriously(i say that if its a first time, obviously if they do it often then give them a hard lesson)?
> Its your breed of drivers that bring the rest of us down, and will keep it down because poor customer service.
> 
> If they dont have a carseat after asking, cancel dont charge them(if a first timer)and go get ur next ping.


This isn't about greed, it a business. If I drive to you and you have an infant and with no car seat I should be compensated. You just fraudulently requested a ride against law, Uber policy, and nature common sense. This type of pax is worst than the pax with six people declaring they can all sit on each other laps because they've involved minors. Nearly all of the pax I've seen do it is being picked up from their house, where you know they have a car seat. Their child's endangerment meant less to them than have to carry around a car seat. If all pax knew no car seat meant absolutely no service then maybe us drivers actually save some kid's life out of this. There is a lot of things to stand up for the pax for but this isn't one of them. If there was a notify family and children services button for drivers, no pax will accidentlly not know the law, everyone would be on the curb with car seat in hand.


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## Ptuberdriver (Dec 2, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> This isn't about greed, it a business. If I drive to you and you have an infant and with no car seat I should be compensated. You just fraudulently requested a ride against law, Uber policy, and nature common sense. This type of pax is worst than the pax with six people declaring they can all sit on each other laps because they've involved minors. Nearly all of the pax I've seen do it is being picked up from their house, where you know they have a car seat. Their child's endangerment meant less to them than have to carry around a car seat. If all pax knew no car seat meant absolutely no service then maybe us drivers actually save some kid's life out of this. There is a lot of things to stand up for the pax for but this isn't one of them. If there was a notify family and children services button for drivers, no pax will accidentlly not know the law, everyone would be on the curb with car seat in hand.


No fraud would be charging them the cancellation fee KNOWING that your cancelling them before the 5 min wait time. Sorry if i confused anyone. The greedy people are those who condone collecting the fee for cancellation knowing the moment they drive up they aren't taking them.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Ptuberdriver said:


> No fraud would be charging them the cancellation fee KNOWING that your cancelling them before the 5 min wait time. Sorry if i confused anyone. The greedy people are those who condone collecting the fee for cancellation knowing the moment they drive up they aren't taking them.


Fraud would be the pax ordering the ride with no car seat available and expecting the driver to either break the law or not be compensated for the time and gas to get to the pickup. Would you personally be happy in this situation?



Ptuberdriver said:


> knowing the moment they drive up they aren't taking them.


A driver can't know that. When the pax is informed as to why the driver can't take them they have the opportunity to grab a car seat and off they go.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wouldn't use my own car seat ever, if something failed or a kid got hurt in an accident a lawyer would have fun with that.


Not many know that child car seats have expiration dates on them. So care needs to be used when purchasing a used seat. Getting an old one is not going to limit the drivers liability in case of accident. It could actually make things worse.


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## Ptuberdriver (Dec 2, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Fraud would be the pax ordering the ride with no car seat available and expecting the driver to either break the law or not be compensated for the time and gas to get to the pickup. Would you personally be happy in this situation?


Would I be happy? No, but Thats the cost of doing business. And the definition of fraud is "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." If you pull up tell the pax that they need a carseat, they inform you that they dont have one, if you intend to cancel the pickup before the 5 minutes, but STILL WAIT TO COLLECT THE FEE. The pax is a dumb customer we need to inform them the policy, and let them go... And in the end user agreement they agree to doesn't say anything about a fee for that, just no shows if there a fee charged.


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## loophole (Jun 7, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> Not many know that child car seats have expiration dates on them. So care needs to be used when purchasing a used seat. Getting an old one is not going to limit the drivers liability in case of accident. It could actually make things worse.


Actually,

While it may vary from state to state, generally it is not illegal for an individual to *continue to use* a perfectly good *car* seat, or to sell it to a friend or family member when it is allegedly *expired*. It *would* be illegal for commercial retailers to sell such a seat.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Ptuberdriver said:


> Would I be happy? No, but Thats the cost of doing business. And the definition of fraud is "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." If you pull up tell the pax that they need a carseat, they inform you that they dont have one, if you intend to cancel the pickup before the 5 minutes, but STILL WAIT TO COLLECT THE FEE. The pax is a dumb customer we need to inform them the policy, and let them go... And in the end user agreement they agree to doesn't say anything about a fee for that, just no shows if there a fee charged.


I can agree your definition of fraud is correct. The correct way to collect the fee is to cancel due to safety issues.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Ptuberdriver said:


> I think its stupid that u guys are that greedy to charge a parent without a carseat. Its bad enough that they now have to wait for a taxi but getting charged $5 for an issue like that, Seriously(i say that if its a first time, obviously if they do it often then give them a hard lesson)?
> Its your breed of drivers that bring the rest of us down, and will keep it down because poor customer service.
> 
> If they dont have a carseat after asking, cancel dont charge them(if a first timer)and go get ur next ping.


Don't feel too bad for them. They get a credit when they complain about the charge, but the driver still gets his/her cancel fee. If it gets taken away because some csr didn't know any better, it's easy enough to get back, so long as the reason was reported.


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## Ptuberdriver (Dec 2, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> I can agree your definition of fraud is correct. The correct way to collect the fee is to cancel due to safety issues.


I agree with that. If its a legit reason like a safety issue, but collecting with a "no-show" fee is wrong.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I had an Africa lady with dress, shawl, and other assortment of flippery hide a baby on her body. She sat right behind me and guess who started crying midway through the trip.
> 
> Ignorance is no defense for breaking the law. People find that out the hard way all the time.


No one said it was.



BCS DRIVER said:


> I can agree your definition of fraud is correct. The correct way to collect the fee is to cancel due to safety issues.


There is no fee to collect.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ptuberdriver said:


> Seriously(i say that if its a first time, obviously if they do it often then give them a hard lesson)?


no...

They are gonna lie and say it's never happened even if it's happened before.

They wasted your time, you deserve to get paid.

Knowing car-seat laws is one of those responsible parent things.

Money is no excuse either WIC has a car-seat program

Either your poor enough to get a free carseat or you have enough money that you can afford one.

You have to look at the issue for what it is... Ignorant idiot paxholes who order rides without having a car-seat and without any way to request one compounded by a large number of drivers, possibly even a majority, taking them anyway while putting themselves in great financial and legal risk.

The only responsible, legal and self serving way to handle the situation is completely refuse service every time the issue comes up.

If you have to give them a pass for free to sleep at night do what you have to do. If putting food on the table is more important Charge them the $5.00

I did this dozens if not hundreds of times on the uber platform and i was never denied the cancel fee (after three or 4 rounds back and forth with the FormLetter brigade)


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> no...
> 
> They are gonna lie and say it's never happened even if it's happened before.
> 
> ...


Tough to charge a pax a fee they didn't agree to pay.


----------



## grayspinner (Sep 8, 2015)

You've got to be living under a rock to not know that all throughout the US, car seats are required for children under age 5. Yes, state laws vary, but there isn't a state that doesn't require them for kids under 5.

And there are now very few areas that taxis are exempt from this requirement.

In my market, there is no taxi exception and there is NO excuse for a parent to not have one - except perhaps for those traveling internationally.

I offer to drive people to a store so they can buy a seat & then we can come back and pick up kids. I've also taken one adult & the luggage home to get the family car with carseats while another adult waits with the kid. 

No way no how will I take kids without carseats & I have ZERO issues with charging them a cancellation fee for being horrible parents who don't GAF about my liability.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

grayspinner said:


> You've got to be living under a rock to not know that all throughout the US, car seats are required for children under age 5. Yes, state laws vary, but there isn't a state that doesn't require them for kids under 5.
> 
> And there are now very few areas that taxis are exempt from this requirement.
> 
> ...


Drivers just can't make up a fee out of thin air.


----------



## grayspinner (Sep 8, 2015)

No, but we wait for the pax to come out & then we spend time talking about how I'm not breaking the law for them despite the fact that 'other driver's do it'. I always take the time to educate them on the law.

Then I tell them they need to cancel. They'll fuss over that & may even mention that they don't want to be charged. At this point, I'll gladly tell them that no matter what, they are getting charged. And rightly so - I drove to them in good faith, incurring expenses, and would have willingly driven them to their destination if they were willing and able to legally take the ride. 

Either they cancel & are charged because it's been over 2 minutes or I cancel & they are charged because it's been over 5 minutes. 

They are unprepared for their ride & not able to get in and the cancellation fee is my compensation for their failure to take the ride they contracted.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

grayspinner said:


> No, but we wait for the pax to come out & then we spend time talking about how I'm not breaking the law for them despite the fact that 'other driver's do it'. I always take the time to educate them on the law.
> 
> Then I tell them they need to cancel. They'll fuss over that & may even mention that they don't want to be charged. At this point, I'll gladly tell them that no matter what, they are getting charged. And rightly so - I drove to them in good faith, incurring expenses, and would have willingly driven them to their destination if they were willing and able to legally take the ride.
> 
> ...


Which doesn't address that you're making up a fee out of thin air. Where in the Uber TOS does it say the pax is responsible for providing their own car seat?


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Demon said:


> Which doesn't address that you're making up a fee out of thin air. Where in the Uber TOS does it say the pax is responsible for providing their own car seat?


It may or may not I have no idea. However one could argue that Uber knows it is an issue. Look at your market in Orlando, Uber has options to order a car with a car seat. Why is this option not everywhere Uber operates?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> It may or may not I have no idea. However one could argue that Uber knows it is an issue. Look at your market in Orlando, Uber has options to order a car with a car seat. Why is this option not everywhere Uber operates?


Of course Uber knows it's an issue & drivers are going to wait for Uber to do something about it and we all know how that turns out for drivers.


----------



## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


This is a joke right? So the fact that i wasted time, gas, & energy to drive to someone who KNEW they didn't have the proper equipment for their child isn't reason enough for me to get $5 compensation? Oh ok. I guess us drivers are just out here working for free FREE.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

DrivingUberPax said:


> This is a joke right? So the fact that i wasted time, gas, & energy to drive to someone who KNEW they didn't have the proper equipment for their child isn't reason enough for me to get $5 compensation? Oh ok. I guess us drivers are just out here working for free FREE.


Nothing stopping you from bringing a car seat.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

dauction said:


> I just purchased a 12$ booster seat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Delusional. You will NEVER GET TIPS.

YOU WILL WASTE TIME SETTING IT UP FOR THE UNGRATEFUL !

On trips which PAY LESS THAN CANCELLATION FEES $!


----------



## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> Which doesn't address that you're making up a fee out of thin air. Where in the Uber TOS does it say the pax is responsible for providing their own car seat?


Common sense isn't so common. It's not my responsibility to be accountable for the safety of your child. Whether it's in the TOS or not it doesn't negate that it's state law pretty much across the board.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Demon said:


> They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


Ignorance is Costly.

Let the Ignorant Pay !


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> Ignorance is Costly.
> 
> Let the Ignorant Pay !


Drivers do pay. That's my point.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Drivers Collect Cancellation Fee.
Drivers Pass Go.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> Drivers Collect Cancellation Fee.
> Drivers Pass Go.


Drivers don't get anything when the driver is the one who decides to cancel.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Demon said:


> Drivers don't get anything when the driver is the one who decides to cancel.


Not true. Wait the 5 minutes and cancel for no car seat. Get paid.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Not true. Wait the 5 minutes and cancel for no car seat. Get paid.


Educating the Unwashed Masses.


----------



## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> Nothing stopping you from bringing a car seat.


I'm not providing a car seat for your kid. I didn't impregnate you. That's your responsibility.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DrivingUberPax said:


> I'm not providing a car seat for your kid. I didn't impregnate you. That's your responsibility.


Takes up Valuable Luggage Room needed by PAYING CUSTOMERS WHO ARE PREPARED !

It would be UNFAIR TO 98% of Normal Customers !


----------



## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Takes up Valuable Luggage Room needed by PAYING CUSTOMERS WHO ARE PREPARED !


Exactly. Like where does the carseat go when you pick up a family of 4 with luggage? That demon person has to be a troll with nothing better to do other than ruffle feathers.


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## Brunch (Nov 4, 2016)

Doors are locked. Passenger tries to open the door. I roll down my window and ask the passenger if they have a car seat or booster for their child. They respond no and I then explain that it's against the law and unsafe for me to transport them without it. I ask them to cancel the ride... If they are concerned with the cancellation fee, I tell them to make contact through the app to Uber or Lyft and they'll refund them the charge for not knowing. 

If they aren't cancelling on their end, I've waited out the 5 minutes for the cancellation fee. I've also contacted Uber/Lyft in other cases when I didn't want to wait and they gave me the fee.


----------



## Ptuberdriver (Dec 2, 2018)

SuzeCB said:


> Not true. Wait the 5 minutes and cancel for no car seat. Get paid.


And you wonder why i continue to say that u frauds hurt the honest drivers. And why i will NEVER take a rideshare even though i drive for uber. I dont want to get charged with extra fees for fraudulent charges like telling the customer that your not taking them before the 5 minute mark, waiting until 5 minutes and collecting the fraudulent fee.


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## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Ptuberdriver said:


> And you wonder why i continue to say that u frauds hurt the honest drivers. And why i will NEVER take a rideshare even though i drive for uber. I dont want to get charged with extra fees for fraudulent charges like telling the customer that your not taking them before the 5 minute mark, waiting until 5 minutes and collecting the fraudulent fee.


You wasting my time while im doing my job is not fraudulent.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DrivingUberPax said:


> You wasting my time while im doing my job is not fraudulent.


Him PAYING for wasting your time is the HONORABLE THING FOR HIM TO DO !

The Odour of Entitlement !


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ptuberdriver said:


> And you wonder why i continue to say that u frauds hurt the honest drivers. And why i will NEVER take a rideshare even though i drive for uber. I dont want to get charged with extra fees for fraudulent charges like telling the customer that your not taking them before the 5 minute mark, waiting until 5 minutes and collecting the fraudulent fee.


It looks like you have children. Every pax you don't charge a car seat fee for not having one orders another Uber a soon as you leave and still don't have a car seat. They will keep ordering Uber's till someone takes them with no car seat. If they knew no car seat= I lose $5 everytime, they won't do it. Your standing up for the parent, everyone else is standing up for the kids. Maybe the next one you let slide ends some poor kids life...


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Delusional. You will NEVER GET TIPS.
> 
> YOU WILL WASTE TIME SETTING IT UP FOR THE UNGRATEFUL !
> 
> On trips which PAY LESS THAN CANCELLATION FEES $!


Nonsense ..I have had the seat less than 2 weeks and have used twice already ..1 tip ..and NO DRAMA!



tohunt4me said:


> Takes up Valuable Luggage Room needed by PAYING CUSTOMERS WHO ARE PREPARED !
> 
> It would be UNFAIR TO 98% of Normal Customers !


 Ummm 95% of Passengers do NOT have luggage .....


----------



## Brunch (Nov 4, 2016)

Now that I think of it, last time there was a no car seat option for cancelling on Uber. I forgot to ask her to cancel the ride, so I picked that option. You would think that Uber would automatically apply the fee, but they didn't. Uber makes it difficult to contact them, but I did eventually find a way to contact them about the non-existent ride and they gave me the fee.

It's best/fastest to have the passenger cancel the ride. Uber and Lyft will refund the passenger if they "didn't know", but really how does a parent not know their child should be buckled properly? Parents who don't care for the safety of their child will just reorder a different ride. It has happened many times. Their response is that they have never had a problem with it before. Uber and Lyft won't continue to refund parents who do this, but they do need to be charged after the first refund/incident.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

DrivingUberPax said:


> I'm not providing a car seat for your kid. I didn't impregnate you. That's your responsibility.


Show me where it says that in the PAX terms of service.



SuzeCB said:


> Not true. Wait the 5 minutes and cancel for no car seat. Get paid.


PAX is toes on the curb & ready to go.


----------



## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Ptuberdriver said:


> And you wonder why i continue to say that u frauds hurt the honest drivers. And why i will NEVER take a rideshare even though i drive for uber. I dont want to get charged with extra fees for fraudulent charges like telling the customer that your not taking them before the 5 minute mark, waiting until 5 minutes and collecting the fraudulent fee.


In another thread a rider said he thought he was getting ripped off over 25 cent waiting fee.

Don't have a car seat, don't call a rideshare.

It's really that simple.



Brunch said:


> Now that I think of it, last time there was a no car seat option for cancelling on Uber. I forgot to ask her to cancel the ride, so I picked that option. You would think that Uber would automatically apply the fee, but they didn't. Uber makes it difficult to contact them, but I did eventually find a way to contact them about the non-existent ride and they gave me the fee.
> 
> It's best/fastest to have the passenger cancel the ride. Uber and Lyft will refund the passenger if they "didn't know", but really how does a parent not know their child should be buckled properly? Parents who don't care for the safety of their child will just reorder a different ride. It has happened many times. Their response is that they have never had a problem with it before. Uber and Lyft won't continue to refund parents who do this, but they do need to be charged after the first refund/incident.


I've never had even the tiniest bit of a problem call Driver Support, and never hassled at all getting fees for Minors or Car Seats.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Demon said:


> Show me where it says that in the PAX terms of service.
> 
> PAX is toes on the curb & ready to go.


Not without a child seat, they're not.


----------



## Brunch (Nov 4, 2016)

BigRedDriver said:


> I've never had even the tiniest bit of a problem call Driver Support, and never hassled at all getting fees for Minors or Car Seats.


I've called before to collect a fee, but I didn't see it on the new app. I see it now, but if we pick the option that we are cancelling due to no car seat, it should automatically give us the fee. That's why I'm still going to ask the passenger to cancel.

Whatever I do, I make sure Uber/Lyft know of the situation. I'm not sure what Uber does, but I know Lyft contacts the passenger about it.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

dauction said:


> Nonsense ..I have had the seat less than 2 weeks and have used twice already ..1 tip ..and NO DRAMA!
> 
> Ummm 95% of Passengers do NOT have luggage .....


Over 50% ofmy passengers DO have Luggage !
I seek them out.
Airport runs.
Hotel to Airport.
Cruise ships to airports.
My market, uber earns SAME AS TAXI FOR AIRPORT RUNS !

I would ONLY DO AIRPORT RUNS IF POSSIBLE.
$24.00 in my pocket for 20 minute run.

Mandated by the City.


----------



## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> They don't know they need a car seat, and eventually drivers trying to charge the pax for the driver choosing to cancel is going to come back to bite all drivers.


Tell me where it says DRIVERS are supposed to provide car seats for YOUR kid? We could probably do this forever. It doesn't change the fact that im NOT providing a car seat for your kid. It's globally STATE LAW. Just because you don't give a damn about your kid doesn't mean i assume the responsibility nor am compromising my livelihood & how i pay my bills to satisfy some entitled pax that lacks common sense. And I'm collecting my cancel fee for you wasting my time.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

grayspinner said:


> Then I tell them they need to cancel. They'll fuss over that & may even mention that they don't want to be charged. At this point, I'll gladly tell them that no matter what, they are getting charged.
> 
> Either they cancel & are charged because it's been over 2 minutes or I cancel & they are charged because it's been over 5 minutes.


It makes me angry when Pax don't have a seat and tell you, well the other driver did it, and when I stand my ground and refuse to take them without a childseat they whine about the fee, and demand I cancel the ride so they're not charged.

I tell them ma'am I am not canceling the ride I did what I was supposed to do and incurred expenses in route to you, you need to cancel the ride and you won't be able to order another car until you have.

That last bit generally works but sometimes it doesn't and I have to cancel, but that sense of entitlement and casual disrespect of my time and money just pisses me off.

I always report with a written complaint that this rider is a repeat offender.


----------



## grayspinner (Sep 8, 2015)

Ptuberdriver said:


> And you wonder why i continue to say that u frauds hurt the honest drivers. And why i will NEVER take a rideshare even though i drive for uber. I dont want to get charged with extra fees for fraudulent charges like telling the customer that your not taking them before the 5 minute mark, waiting until 5 minutes and collecting the fraudulent fee.


Are you trying to get drivers to take you & your kids without car seats?

Because if you are & the driver won't take you & you are charged a fee, YOU DESERVE THE FEE. And YOU would be the person trying to commit fraud, NOT the driver.

Driver's who take those kids without carseats or who don't charge the fee, hurt all of us drivers by perpetuating this problem. Worse, you endanger the lives of children.

Demon is the worst kind of troll- his advice endangers children.

Demon's insistence that drivers don't deserve a cancellation fee in these instances, encourages drivers to take kids without car seats & encourages parents to request rides without car seats. Both of which puts children's lives at risk.

Not to mention, in many states it also puts the driver at risk of serious moving violations & points on their license. Charges like child endangerment and vehicular homicide are major.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

I was at the Restaurant yesterday ..must have been a ANT Restaurant because they had Booster seats for the Kids... don't they understand it isn't their responsibility to bring seats for parents kids 


Bottom do what YOU need to .. For me after 2 weeks having the Booster seat ...I avoided 2 potential "drama" situations AND got 1 tip AND everyone applauded ..even passengers with no kids that seen it in the car .. FOR ME it has been a win win .

Just good customer service


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

dauction said:


> I was at the Restaurant yesterday ..must have been a ANT Restaurant because they had Booster seats for the Kids... don't they understand it isn't their responsibility to bring seats for parents kids
> 
> Bottom do what YOU need to .. For me after 2 weeks having the Booster seat ...I avoided 2 potential "drama" situations AND got 1 tip AND everyone applauded ..even passengers with no kids that seen it in the car .. FOR ME it has been a win win .
> 
> Just good customer service


I like the idea, however outside of the safety concern based on FL Law a booster seat is kind of pointless for me to carry. Florida Law allows me to transport a kid that is normally required to be in a booster without one under certain conditions. Ride-Share would meet those conditions the best I can tell. Now a child 3 and under is required to be in a car seat regardless. So at that point I have to turn down rides. So far only had to turn down 1 ride so far.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> I like the idea, however outside of the safety concern based on FL Law a booster seat is kind of pointless for me to carry. Florida Law allows me to transport a kid that is normally required to be in a booster without one under certain conditions. Ride-Share would meet those conditions the best I can tell. Now a child 3 and under is required to be in a car seat regardless. So at that point I have to turn down rides. So far only had to turn down 1 ride so far.


What law is that?



grayspinner said:


> Are you trying to get drivers to take you & your kids without car seats?
> 
> Because if you are & the driver won't take you & you are charged a fee, YOU DESERVE THE FEE. And YOU would be the person trying to commit fraud, NOT the driver.
> 
> ...


Wow. That's a lot of words you're putting in my mouth. I've never said a driver should take a kid without a car seat. 
What I have said is that drivers have agreed not to charge pax when the driver decides to cancel. Pax have never been told they need to bring their own car seat and never agreed to pay for not having one. The option exists for drivers to supply the car seat so the can accept the fare.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Demon said:


> What law is that?


See post #23 with link.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> See post #23 with link.


Picking up a PAX is neither an emergency or favor.



Wonkytonk said:


> It makes me angry when Pax don't have a seat and tell you, well the other driver did it, and when I stand my ground and refuse to take them without a childseat they whine about the fee, and demand I cancel the ride so they're not charged.
> 
> I tell them ma'am I am not canceling the ride I did what I was supposed to do and incurred expenses in route to you, you need to cancel the ride and you won't be able to order another car until you have.
> 
> ...


There's no entitlement or offense on the part of the pax. They did everything they were supposed to do.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Demon said:


> Picking up a PAX is neither an emergency or favor.


Well according to the State Trooper I spoke with it is. I'll take my chances with that. He is the one that informed me of this when we were discussing other rideshare driver/PAX concerns I had. Biggest one being Open container laws in Florida. Yes I know Uber/Lyft policies.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> Well according to the State Trooper I spoke with it is. I'll take my chances with that. He is the one that informed me of this when we were discussing other rideshare driver/PAX concerns I had. Biggest one being Open container laws in Florida. Yes I know Uber/Lyft policies.


In that case it's not in the link you provided and you have no actual proof of it. Thanks.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

I think a $5.00 cancellation fee is a cheap way to teach parents how to be a responsible adult.

And I’ll collect them as often as I possibly can!


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> Picking up a PAX is neither an emergency or favor.
> 
> There's no entitlement or offense on the part of the pax. They did everything they were supposed to do.


Well, I suppose, I mean if you mean by that intentionally trying to thwart state law, and their agreement with Uber to use the app in a manner inconsistent with the law then yes they did everything they were supposed to do, but not really.

This is the relevant portion of the rider agreement with uber:



> You agree to comply with all applicable laws when accessing or using the Services, and you may only access or use the Services for lawful purposes (e.g., no transport of unlawful or hazardous materials).


Obtaining transportation for children in a manner clearly inconsistent with the law is both a violation of that law, and of the rider's agreement also which they agreed to when they created their accounts.

Not only should they be charged the cancellation fee they should be banned permanently from access to the platform, and uber should report the attempt to law enforcement, and child protective services.


----------



## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

Putting an underage child in a car without proper restraint (car seat) could be considered child endangerment. If you as a driver have an accident, good luck...it’s not worth the $5.00 ride.


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## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> What law is that?
> 
> Wow. That's a lot of words you're putting in my mouth. I've never said a driver should take a kid without a car seat.
> What I have said is that drivers have agreed not to charge pax when the driver decides to cancel. Pax have never been told they need to bring their own car seat and never agreed to pay for not having one. The option exists for drivers to supply the car seat so the can accept the fare.


Drivers are not deciding to cancel the ride they're being FORCED to cancel rides due to this little thing called the law. Your argument makes zero sense saying pax don't know they should have a car seat for their child. It's illogical. If by chance they're that brain dead, they probably shouldn't be having children. It's not the drivers responsibility to inform uninformed people about the law and just because YOU don't know doesn't mean i have to eat the cost due to your ignorance. It's literally common sense. Why would you not want your child to be safe? Also, i don't have children. Why in the world would i provide a car seat for your child? Did i impregnate you? Yea...not gonna happen. Your responsible for your childs safety. Not the driver. Thats like because a person is in a wheelchair drivers should automatically have wheelchair accessible vehicles. There is an option for pax to choose from & drivers that have those specific things available. Then pax whine about it costing extra. (Why cant everybody in the world cater to my every want & need. Wahhhh wahhhh). The solution, call a cab or buy your own car to transport your child with no car seat. Problem solved.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> Well, I suppose, I mean if you mean by that intentionally trying to thwart state law, and their agreement with Uber to use the app in a manner inconsistent with the law then yes they did everything they were supposed to do, but not really.
> 
> This is the relevant portion of the rider agreement with uber:
> 
> ...


The pax hasn't broken any law or the contract, there's nothing in the contract that states the pax has to be the one who supplies the car seat, and there's nothing in the contract that says the pax will be charged for not providing the car seat.



DrivingUberPax said:


> Drivers are not deciding to cancel the ride they're being FORCED to cancel rides due to this little thing called the law. Your argument makes zero sense saying pax don't know they should have a car seat for their child. It's illogical. If by chance they're that brain dead, they probably shouldn't be having children. It's not the drivers responsibility to inform uninformed people about the law and just because YOU don't know doesn't mean i have to eat the cost due to your ignorance. It's literally common sense. Why would you not want your child to be safe? Also, i don't have children. Why in the world would i provide a car seat for your child? Did i impregnate you? Yea...not gonna happen. Your responsible for your childs safety. Not the driver. Thats like because a person is in a wheelchair drivers should automatically have wheelchair accessible vehicles. There is an option for pax to choose from & drivers that have those specific things available. Then pax whine about it costing extra. (Why cant everybody in the world cater to my every want & need. Wahhhh wahhhh). The solution, call a cab or buy your own car to transport your child with no car seat. Problem solved.


Drivers do NOT have to cancel the ride, drivers can use their own car seat. It's not debatable that the PAX doesn't know they need to bring a car seat with them because Uber never tells them they need to.


----------



## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> The pax hasn't broken any law or the contract, there's nothing in the contract that states the pax has to be the one who supplies the car seat, and there's nothing in the contract that says the pax will be charged for not providing the car seat.


The rider has shown proclivity towards illegal behavior, and if they tell the driver that another driver allowed them to ride without a child seat, then they have indeed engaged in illegal behavior, and have violated the uber terms of service they agreed to abide by on signing up for the service.

Who supplies the car seat is immaterial to that point. It is their legal responsibility as the care giver for that child to ensure that they do not transport a child without one. It is not the driver's responsibility to provide a child seat.

There is an option in the app that allows a driver, in consideration of their time and money spent in good faith to pick up that rider, to recoup the money they spent on a faithless rider acting in a manner inconsistent with the law, and in a manner contrary to the uber rider agreement.

If you do not like that that option exists take it up with your friends at uber.



Demon said:


> Drivers do NOT have to cancel the ride, drivers can use their own car seat. It's not debatable that the PAX doesn't know they need to bring a car seat with them because Uber never tells them they need to.


Ignorance of the law is no excuse, they are still bound by the law and required to ensure that their children are in proper child restraint systems such a child seat.

Your claims of ignorance fall on deaf ears here. The incidence of the truely ignorant parent unaware of child seat laws is closer to zero percent than it is 100 percent.

Again, the option exists to collect the fee for the rider's attempt at stealing money from drivers by fraudulently requesting a ride they know damn well a driver acting legally can not provide.

If you don't like that the option for drivers to recoup their losses at the hands of uber's customers is present in the app then take it up with uber.

Either of these would be a good place for you to start:



> https://www.facebook.com/uber/
> 
> https://twitter.com/Uber


----------



## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Demon said:


> This is why I keep returning to this forum. There is no one more entitled than an Uber driver and reading these posts is always entertaining.
> 
> You can't charge a pax for something when you decide to cancel per the TOS.


Everytime i have called support and reported a pax for no child seat, they have granted me a cancel fee. I guess the company feels differently than you do.



Wonkytonk said:


> Well, I suppose, I mean if you mean by that intentionally trying to thwart state law, and their agreement with Uber to use the app in a manner inconsistent with the law then yes they did everything they were supposed to do, but not really.
> 
> This is the relevant portion of the rider agreement with uber:
> 
> ...


Wonky is right. The law requires a car seat. The pax needs to be compliant. I also agree the cancel fee is appropriate. I think any pax that tries to skirt this law should be held to a three strike rule. If they don't feel they need to comply, deactivation is suitable.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

UberBeemer said:


> Everytime i have called support and reported a pax for no child seat, they have granted me a cancel fee. I guess the company feels differently than you do.
> 
> Wonky is right. The law requires a car seat. The pax needs to be compliant. I also agree the cancel fee is appropriate. I think any pax that tries to skirt this law should be held to a three strike rule. If they don't feel they need to comply, deactivation is suitable.


Show me any of that in Uber's TOS. PAX is doing what Uber told them to do, they're toes to the curb.


----------



## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> The pax hasn't broken any law or the contract, there's nothing in the contract that states the pax has to be the one who supplies the car seat, and there's nothing in the contract that says the pax will be charged for not providing the car seat.
> 
> Drivers do NOT have to cancel the ride, drivers can use their own car seat. It's not debatable that the PAX doesn't know they need to bring a car seat with them because Uber never tells them they need to.


 It most definitely debatable. One that in most cases you will lose. I do have to cancel. Im not assuming responsibility/liability for your kid. You having the brain capacity of a gnat isn't my problem. Keep your child unsafe in your car. Period.



Demon said:


> Show me any of that in Uber's TOS. PAX is doing what Uber told them to do, they're toes to the curb.


You keep arguing about it being in the TOS. Whether it's there or not ITS LITERALLY THE LAW. It's not ubers car. They assume no responsibility the driver does. All of it. Ergo there right to refuse service for not having proper equipment & collecting my cancellation fee every time. Geezz. There's no getting thru to ignorance. Im done with this.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> Show me any of that in Uber's TOS. PAX is doing what Uber told them to do, they're toes to the curb.


See above I've already quoted uber's terms of service for riders explicitly stating they are to comply with all applicable laws. Obtaining transportation through the platform for their children who require them without a child-seat is illegal, and uber expressly stated they are not allowed to break the law in their TOS which the rider agreed to.



> You agree to comply with all applicable laws when accessing or using the Services, and you may only access or use the Services for lawful purposes (e.g., no transport of unlawful or hazardous materials).





Demon said:


> PAX is doing what Uber told them to do


Once again if you truly believe that then your problem is with Uber and not the drivers who can not legally take those riders attempting to break the law at the expense of drivers.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Demon said:


> Show me any of that in Uber's TOS. PAX is doing what Uber told them to do, they're toes to the curb.


I know you just come here to be confrontational. You can ignore what was posted if you like but your argument is for the sake of arguing, and not a productive discussion.

The line quoted above renders your stance weak at best:

"You agree to comply with all applicable laws when accessing or using the Services, and you may only access or use the Services for lawful purposes (e.g., no transport of unlawful or hazardous materials)."

Child restraint laws apply. That's really all that needs to be said.

Cancellation for no show or no car seat makes no difference when a call to the driver support number ends with an award of a cancel fee.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> Show me any of that in Uber's TOS. PAX is doing what Uber told them to do, they're toes to the curb.


Good Lord^^^^^^^

How long ago was it that common sense completely died?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

DrivingUberPax said:


> It most definitely debatable. One that in most cases you will lose. I do have to cancel. Im not assuming responsibility/liability for your kid. You having the brain capacity of a gnat isn't my problem. Keep your child unsafe in your car. Period.
> 
> You keep arguing about it being in the TOS. Whether it's there or not ITS LITERALLY THE LAW. It's not ubers car. They assume no responsibility the driver does. All of it. Ergo there right to refuse service for not having proper equipment & collecting my cancellation fee every time. Geezz. There's no getting thru to ignorance. Im done with this.


Unfortunately it isn't debatable. The driver has the choice to supply their own car seat. I've never said it isn't the law.I'm glad you see yourself as ignorant, hopefully you'll start to educate yourself.



Wonkytonk said:


> See above I've already quoted uber's terms of service for riders explicitly stating they are to comply with all applicable laws. Obtaining transportation through the platform for their children who require them without a child-seat is illegal, and uber expressly stated they are not allowed to break the law in their TOS which the rider agreed to.
> 
> Once again if you truly believe that then your problem is with Uber and not the drivers who can not legally take those riders attempting to break the law at the expense of drivers.


But the fact remains you didn't. You quoted a part of the TOS which says pax can't transport hazardous materials, or drugs or anything illegal, it's not illegal to transport a child. It is always an option for the driver to provide a car seat, and except in cases where the pax orders a car seat, the pax won't know if the driver has a car seat until the driver arrives.



UberBeemer said:


> I know you just come here to be confrontational. You can ignore what was posted if you like but your argument is for the sake of arguing, and not a productive discussion.
> 
> The line quoted above renders your stance weak at best:
> 
> ...


There's really nothing confrontational or anything I'm arguing, I'm simply stating facts. You and another poster bringing up that pax can't bring hazardous materials with them has nothing to do with transporting kids, kids aren't hazardous materials. No one is debating that child seats are not required.


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## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Demon said:


> Unfortunately it isn't debatable. The driver has the choice to supply their own car seat. I've never said it isn't the law.I'm glad you see yourself as ignorant, hopefully you'll start to educate yourself.
> 
> But the fact remains you didn't. You quoted a part of the TOS which says pax can't transport hazardous materials, or drugs or anything illegal, it's not illegal to transport a child. It is always an option for the driver to provide a car seat, and except in cases where the pax orders a car seat, the pax won't know if the driver has a car seat until the driver arrives.
> 
> There's really nothing confrontational or anything I'm arguing, I'm simply stating facts. You and another poster bringing up that pax can't bring hazardous materials with them has nothing to do with transporting kids, kids aren't hazardous materials. No one is debating that child seats are not required.


I've spent entirely to much time addressing your ignorance. Ignore button here i come!!


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Demon said:


> Unfortunately it isn't debatable. The driver has the choice to supply their own car seat. I've never said it isn't the law.I'm glad you see yourself as ignorant, hopefully you'll start to educate yourself.
> 
> But the fact remains you didn't. You quoted a part of the TOS which says pax can't transport hazardous materials, or drugs or anything illegal, it's not illegal to transport a child. It is always an option for the driver to provide a car seat, and except in cases where the pax orders a car seat, the pax won't know if the driver has a car seat until the driver arrives.
> 
> There's really nothing confrontational or anything I'm arguing, I'm simply stating facts. You and another poster bringing up that pax can't bring hazardous materials with them has nothing to do with transporting kids, kids aren't hazardous materials. No one is debating that child seats are not required.


You really don't get to ignore the first part of sentence, and claim to be abiding by the TOS.

"You agree to comply with all applicable laws when accessing or using the Services".

Child restraint laws are applicable laws. Your argument doesn't hold up.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

UberBeemer said:


> You really don't get to ignore the first part of sentence, and claim to be abiding by the TOS.
> 
> "You agree to comply with all applicable laws when accessing or using the Services".
> 
> Child restraint laws are applicable laws. Your argument doesn't hold up.


I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact. It is not illegal to transport a child. A child is not a hazardous material.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Demon said:


> I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact. It is not illegal to transport a child. A child is not a hazardous material.


You are arguing a point that nobody is disputing in an effort to sidestep a point you refuse to acknowledge. The TOS says obey applicable laws. Child seat statutes are exactly that. You can try to deny it, but your statement is false.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> But the fact remains you didn't. You quoted a part of the TOS which says pax can't transport hazardous materials, or drugs or anything illegal, it's not illegal to transport a child.


You're engaging in willful ignorance much like a lot of parents who don't have their child seats available for their children when they request an uber ride.



> You agree to comply with _*ALL APPLICABLE LAWS WHEN*_ accessing or *USING THE SERVICE*, *AND **YOU MAY ONLY* access or *USE THE SERVICE FOR LAWFUL PURPOSES* (e.g., no transport of unlawful or hazardous materials).


The unlawful or hazardous materials simply serves as an example of what? ---> a non-exclusive example of an unlawful purpose.

You know what else is an e.g. of unlawful purpose? transporting children in violation of state and local laws without a child seat. And every parent knows it and if they don't doesn't matter ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Now I know you're well aware that that portion of the rider tos statement isn't exclusive of hazardous material because you gave examples of other illegal things not explicitly cited in the rider tos.



Demon said:


> I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact. It is not illegal to transport a child. A child is not a hazardous material.


And pray tell who said that it was illegal to transport a child? I see many who have stated it is illegal to transport a child without a protective restraint system e.g. a child seat in many if not all states, but not one that made the blanket statement that it is illegal to transport a child.

Nor has anyone here stated that a child was a hazardous material.

In fact you're sort of just creating an argument in your head and arguing against that.

Feel free to stop making up your own arguments to refute as though we're presenting you with those figments of your imagination, and deal with the ones you're actually being confronted with.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> You're engaging in willful ignorance much like a lot of parents who don't have their child seats available for their children when they request an uber ride.
> 
> The unlawful or hazardous materials simply serves as an example of what? ---> a non-exclusive example of an unlawful purpose.
> 
> ...


The pax is complying with all laws. You repeating something over & over that's been refuted doesn't make it correct the 2nd time you say it, or put in bold. I'm sure PAX will happily put their kid in the car seat that the driver provides and the child will be restrained. No one said the parents don't know the law.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> The pax is complying with all laws.


No. No they're not if they're ordering a ride for their young children who are required to ride in a child seat by law and they do not have that childseat and they expect/demand that driver take their child without the child seat. In that case, which is all too frequently the case, they are in fact attempting to engage in illegal activity at the driver's expense. Literally since they forced that drive to drive to them knowing the driver would have to cancel because it's against the law to transport a child without a child seat in his state. We also have verification all too often that they have previously engaged in said illegal activity because they confess it when they state "Well the other driver let me do it".



Demon said:


> You repeating something over & over that's been refuted doesn't make it correct the 2nd time you say it, or put in bold.


Lol like you're not repeating yourself?

The difference is you're repeating nonsense that makes no sense as though a driver here or anywhere for that matter ever stated a child was a hazardous material, or that any driver ever said that transporting a child was illegal.

In fact you just spout off nonsense in contravention of the very words of the TOS that are right in front of you when you respond.



Demon said:


> I'm sure PAX will happily put their kid in the car seat that the driver provides and the child will be restrained.


They might just but that's beside the point since driver's aren't required to carry child seats, that is the complete and legal responsibility of the care giver for that child. In fact a driver opens himself up to liability by providing his own car seat, and a parent is irresponsible, hell negligent even, if they use a child seat of unknown provenance.



Demon said:


> No one said the parents don't know the law.


Of course they know the law, and they know they're attempting to have the driver break it with them by getting that driver to transport their child without a child seat. This isn't rocket science. This is cut and dried rider's trying to break the law, and driver's having the right to refuse, cancel, and collect a fee to offset the expense of getting to that rider when that rider knew damn well they didn't have child seat.

And if your argument continues to be that uber didn't tell them, as though uber has to, then I continue to refute that argument by saying then your argument is with UBER and not drivers, and you need to take it up with them and their lousy communication with their customers. Because driver's got the message loud and clear from uber don't take children that require childseats without them, report it, force uber to pay the cancellation fee because they'll try not to pay it.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Demon, i think you are the only person here seeing the TOS and not acknowledging the clear language requiring pax to abide by the law. First, you claimed drivers were inventing fees they weren't allowed to charge; then when you were informed that Uber is paying these cancel fees after drivers have explained to driver support that they cancelled for safety reasons, you shifted to the idea that the TOS prevents cancellations because kids aren't illegal substances or dangerous materials; now you suggest that drivers provide car seats.

You are being contrarian and confrontational, insinuating that members are ignorant, and need to educate themselves.

If a driver hides out of sight and no shows a rider, i would say that's a fee they aren't entitled to. But if a rider fails to provide a car seat, and stands there arguing that they don't have or need one, instead of going inside and getting one, and the timer expires, they weren't ready to go, and the driver is in the right by cancelling for no show just as if they didn't come outside for their ride in 5 minutes. Uber Driver Support backs this up every time, because without the seat, they weren't ready to go.

They might have been toes to the curb. But no car seat is a valid cancel, and the company pays the fee, paricularly when the driver reports the issue. This is 100% on the rider.

From the Uber rider site:
https://help.uber.com/riders/article/uber-car-seat?nodeId=3abcbae1-132b-42a9-8277-0dab00fa3879

Uber is adjusting its stance to address chronic issues. Car seats are one such issue. Riders with small children may not expect to bring children without one, and have the option to request a car with one, if they chose, for $10 extra.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Word man its only words.



UberBeemer said:


> Demon, i think you are the only person here seeing the TOS and not acknowledging the clear language requiring pax to abide by the law. First, you claimed drivers were inventing fees they weren't allowed to charge; then when you were informed that Uber is paying these cancel fees after drivers have explained to driver support that they cancelled for safety reasons, you shifted to the idea that the TOS prevents cancellations because kids aren't illegal substances or dangerous materials; now you suggest that drivers provide car seats.
> 
> You are being contrarian and confrontational, insinuating that members are ignorant, and need to educate themselves.
> 
> ...


Why is that car seat option not in every market?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

FLKeys said:


> Word man its only words.
> 
> Why is that car seat option not in every market?


Because none of the parents were using it. They didn't want to pay the additional $10 fee on each ride, so just kept ordering regular Uber and saying, "But all the other Uber drivers let us!"


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

UberBeemer said:


> Demon, i think you are the only person here seeing the TOS and not acknowledging the clear language requiring pax to abide by the law. First, you claimed drivers were inventing fees they weren't allowed to charge; then when you were informed that Uber is paying these cancel fees after drivers have explained to driver support that they cancelled for safety reasons, you shifted to the idea that the TOS prevents cancellations because kids aren't illegal substances or dangerous materials; now you suggest that drivers provide car seats.
> 
> You are being contrarian and confrontational, insinuating that members are ignorant, and need to educate themselves.
> 
> ...


Drivers only provide car seats on car seat rides. Drivers have the option to provide car seats on all other rides. 
If the pax is the one doing something illegal, the driver can take the ride since the driver isn't doing anything illegal and there's no point to having this thread.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> Drivers only provide car seats on car seat rides. Drivers have the option to provide car seats on all other rides.


I don't know why you keep repeating that because those to facts have never been in question by any driver ever as far as I've ever read on any of these child seat topics. Ever. Never have I ever read a driver state that they either could not provide a car seat, or that they didn't have that option.

That's just a sticking point in your head, nobody elses'.



Demon said:


> If the pax is the one doing something illegal, the driver can take the ride since the driver isn't doing anything illegal and there's no point to having this thread.


If the driver is taking that rider for their illegal child-seat-less drive then that driver is illegally transporting that child as well.

As long as there are people like you who think driver's aren't due the cancellation fee when riders try to scam them into taking their children without child seats in violation of the law then this thread is just fine where it is.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> I don't know why you keep repeating that because those to facts have never been in question by any driver ever as far as I've ever read on any of these child seat topics. Ever. Never have I ever read a driver state that they either could not provide a car seat, or that they didn't have that option.
> 
> That's just a sticking point in your head, nobody elses'.
> 
> ...


No, that's my response to what what said in the post I replied to. He made a claim about something I had said and was mistaken. 
For the umpteenth time, the TOS does not say who is responsible for providing the car seat.I think we should follow the TOS, and if the driver decides to cancel on a customer who is following the TOS, that's on the driver.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Demon said:


> For the umpteenth time, the TOS does not say who is responsible for providing the car seat.


And for the same number of times, if you continue to hold out that they didn't know because uber didn't tell them then your complaint is with uber. Take it up with Uber.

Everybody knows who is responsible for making sure their children are in proper restraints during transportation. It's not the state, or the country, or uber, or the driver, it's the child's care giver. Period.



Demon said:


> I think we should follow the TOS, and if the driver decides to cancel on a customer who is following the TOS, that's on the driver.


The customer attempting to obtain transportation services without legal child restraint systems is neither following the TOS, or the law.

And as above the care giver is responsible for the child for which they are requesting transportation and they are required to follow the law and when the law states that they fall within the requirements they must have a child seat or proper restraint. It is not uber's responsibility to provide it, it is not the driver's responsibility to provide it. It is the sole responsibility of the care give to ensure their child is using it during transportation.

Not uber's, not the drivers. The rider's!



Demon said:


> I think we should follow the TOS, and if the driver decides to cancel on a customer who is following the TOS, that's on the driver.


The TOS is clear the rider is not allowed to use the transportation service in an illegal manner, and must follow the law. If they are attempting to circumvent the law by having a driver transport their child without a child seat they are in violation of both the law, and the TOS. So yes rider's should follow the terms of the TOS, and do what uber and lyft tell them, and what the law stipulates. Don't take the ride without proper child restraints, and if the pax requested a ride without proper restraint systems charge them for wasting your time and money in order to get to them.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Demon said:


> Drivers only provide car seats on car seat rides. Drivers have the option to provide car seats on all other rides.
> If the pax is the one doing something illegal, the driver can take the ride since the driver isn't doing anything illegal and there's no point to having this thread.


No. You are incorrect. Rider, technically, could be charged with solicitation, too.



FLKeys said:


> Word man its only words.
> 
> Why is that car seat option not in every market?


They roll things out slowly. If you don't see it, try updating your app.


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## DrivingUberPax (Apr 25, 2018)

Wonkytonk said:


> And for the same number of times, if you continue to hold out that they didn't know because uber didn't tell them then your complaint is with uber. Take it up with Uber.
> 
> Everybody knows who is responsible for making sure their children are in proper restraints during transportation. It's not the state, or the country, or uber, or the driver, it's the child's care giver. Period.
> 
> ...


It's become apparent to me that this person is mentally not well. It would be pointless to exhaust any more time addressing the issue to him/her/it. Save yourself the headache.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Demon said:


> Tough to charge a pax a fee they didn't agree to pay.


Well... they agreed to pay the cancel/no show fee when they signed up. It's also a civic responsibility and a responsibility of parents to know their laws that apply to them.



FLKeys said:


> I like the idea, however outside of the safety concern based on FL Law a booster seat is kind of pointless for me to carry. Florida Law allows me to transport a kid that is normally required to be in a booster without one under certain conditions. Ride-Share would meet those conditions the best I can tell. Now a child 3 and under is required to be in a car seat regardless. So at that point I have to turn down rides. So far only had to turn down 1 ride so far.


The exception is in an emergency. There are no other excemptions. What there is in Florida is verbiage that makes it the parent's responsibility.

The only way i'll do it is if they are going to the ER for medical treatment (I did it once to an urgent care center)


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

First and foremost is safety for you and pax.
Second, I don't like kids, so I don't take them.
Third, if someone is that irresponsible with their own kids it's not my responsibility to have any compassion for them, too many people have babies when they can't even take care of themselves.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Well... they agreed to pay the cancel/no show fee when they signed up. It's also a civic responsibility and a responsibility of parents to know their laws that apply to them.
> 
> The exception is in an emergency. There are no other excemptions. What there is in Florida is verbiage that makes it the parent's responsibility.
> 
> The only way i'll do it is if they are going to the ER for medical treatment (I did it once to an urgent care center)


You do realize that if any person you transport for a medical emergency opens you up to all types of liabilities, just cancel the ride and offer to call 911, otherwise I may be seeing you on the side of a highway with a sign begging.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> First and foremost is safety for you and pax.
> Second, I don't like kids, so I don't take them.
> Third, if someone is that irresponsible with their own kids it's not my responsibility to have any compassion for them, too many people have babies when they can't even take care of themselves.
> 
> You do realize that if any person you transport for a medical emergency opens you up to all types of liabilities, just cancel the ride and offer to call 911, otherwise I may be seeing you on the side of a highway with a sign begging.


The exemption only applies for ages 4-6.

KNOW THE LAW... there's a specific exception in place for medical emergencies. As in a specific exception designed to allow someone without a booster seat to drive them in a medical crisis. Is it more important to get timmy to the ER or to get Timmy to the ER in a booster seat?

There's also an exception for giving a *free* ride to a not immediate family member. The law isn't absolute on the matter, it's a Please for the love of god do this unless there is a very good reason to do this.

They don't make it impossible, they just want it limited to extreme situations. The spirit, verbiage, _*intent*_ of the law is to allow it during medical emergencies. I'm no lawyer but "is being transported in a medical emergency situation" doesn't leave much room for interpretation if i'm taking them to an ER.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2018/728/BillText/Filed/HTML

2. For children aged 4 through 6 5 years, a separate 
26 carrier, an integrated child seat, or a child booster seat may 
27 be used. However, the requirement to use a child restraint 
28 device under this subparagraph _*does not apply when a safety belt 
29 is used as required in s. 316.614(4)(a) and the child:*_ 
30 a. Is being transported gratuitously by an operator who is 
31 not a member of the child's immediate family; 
32 b. _*Is being transported in a medical emergency situation *_ 
33 involving the child; or


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