# Uber Eats drivers Utopia?



## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

So let's say in the ideal world, what type of pay and conditions would those of you who do Uber Eats want in order to keep you happy, or at least satisfied? Also being realistic...given it's a job you can just work when you want (can't do that if you work at Maccas or digging holes), the restaurants need to make money from the order and the delivery company also needs to make some money in order to keep going.

What kind of balance do you guys think is good for all parties?


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## Kurtis (Apr 22, 2018)

I try to always aim for as close to $20 per hour as possible usually hitting around $19 but sometimes over $20. Petrol is tax deductible (depending on your situation).


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

If casual riders were paid an hourly rate, could that work? How could you ensure riders didn't abuse the system?


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

Lower commision would be the obvious place to start.

Isn't it 35% on Eats?

Both X and Eats should be 20%

How does Uber justify 35%?

Yes, they provide the app, but even that is a spinoff of the Rider app, which means costs are armortised across multiple income streams.

ALL of the daily material costs and risks are worn by the rider.

I assume their is far less costs incurred by Uber in the administration side of the eats business, as there are no vehicle inspections and less stringent checks in place for drivers.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

mistareno said:


> Lower commision would be the obvious place to start.
> 
> Isn't it 35% on Eats?


Yes I believe it's around that figure.



mistareno said:


> Lower commision would be the obvious place to start.
> Both X and Eats should be 20%
> 
> How does Uber justify 35%?


Problem is, they don't have to justify it. They've created a situation where restaurants feel beholden to them...which is plain wrong.



mistareno said:


> Lower commision would be the obvious place to start.
> Yes, they provide the app, but even that is a spinoff of the Rider app, which means costs are armortised across multiple income streams.
> 
> ALL of the daily material costs and risks are worn by the rider.
> ...


You would think so. Just trying to think of ways where it is more favourable for all.


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## BuckleUp (Jan 18, 2018)

$27/hr casual rate or $22/hr + sick + leave + super as absolute min


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

BuckleUp said:


> $27/hr casual rate or $22/hr + sick + leave + super as absolute min


How do you make sure drivers deliver quickly? No incentive to do as many deliveries as you can that way.


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## BuckleUp (Jan 18, 2018)

PasJes said:


> How do you make sure drivers deliver quickly? No incentive to do as many deliveries as you can that way.


First you need to secure a minimum livable wage. Then you can offer a commission incentive per delivery. 
New real estate agents get paid this way under law. Before agencies hired a new agent only on commission with no base salaries. Work 40 hours but don't sell hence weekly salary is $0. That's exploitation. Now min base salary is under law.
I see no reason why rideshare should not be the same. 
Any other job you still get paid. The guy at the back of Coles still gets paid while waiting for the Coles truck to rollup.
When I was 18 got my first car did deliveries for a pizza kebab place in Elsternwick. It was $8/hr and $3 delivery fee. So no deliveries at least got min wage (this was 25 yrs ago).


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

That's all true. But these other casual jobs don't allow you to work whenever you want. So there HAS to be some trade off as that is a massive benefit for riders. I agree there has to be a decent wage, but unless there's realistic measures from both sides, this industry will just collapse.

I would have thought a slightly lower hourly wage and then incentives along the way. I also think Uber Eats should set aside a portion of their yearly earnings/dividend for riders as a pseudo superannuation scheme.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Award rate + causual loading + super + vehicle allowance at a minimum.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

UberDriverAU said:


> Award rate + causual loading + super + vehicle allowance at a minimum.


Unsustainable I would have thought. Casual status has to be offset by the fact riders can clock on and off whenever they like. Normal casual workers don't have that luxury.


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

PasJes said:


> That's all true. But these other casual jobs don't allow you to work whenever you want. So there HAS to be some trade off as that is a massive benefit for riders. I agree there has to be a decent wage, but unless there's realistic measures from both sides, this industry will just collapse.
> 
> I would have thought a slightly lower hourly wage and then incentives along the way. I also think Uber Eats should set aside a portion of their yearly earnings/dividend for riders as a pseudo superannuation scheme.


Work whenever you want, or be 
Online whenever you want? There is a HUGE difference.

Based on X, there are times of the day when I could be online for an hour or more without getting a ping if I was in a bad area.

If you end up earning $2 an hour after expenses working 'when you want', then why bother?

I assume that eats gives even less real 'flexibility'.

If there are so many drivers on the road that you can only make money driving at peak times or playing surge, then you are working when Uber wants anyway.

You are also making sure Uber can have good service coverage, but that is (like all other costs) at the drivers expense, not Ubers.

Australia has a relatively small population, and with the churn rate Uber has, the driver pool will eventually start to dry up and while the legistlative wheels of change turn slowly, the use of one sided and non-transparent 'contracts' (that use such vague terms as 'materially different') to further reduce a drivers earnings and are solely there to allow Uber (and others) to side step employee protections and obligations will eventually be seen as what they are...

A cover to extorting employees for profit...


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## BuckleUp (Jan 18, 2018)

PasJes said:


> Unsustainable I would have thought. Casual status has to be offset by the fact riders can clock on and off whenever they like. Normal casual workers don't have that luxury.


There are no jobs whenever riders like. How many pings are there 8am or 2pm or 3am? You have to work lunch and dinner to cover expenses. Why should I sacrifice my income for flexibility which does not in fact exist.


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

PasJes said:


> I agree there has to be a decent wage, but unless there's realistic measures from both sides, this industry will just collapse.


This isn't an industry, and if looked at with any degree of depth, it deserves to collapse.

Its a BS 'Gig' economy sham that has only ever succeeded by not complying to local legistlation and laws wherever it has gone, or by baffling the legistlators with BS that it was somehow different. It isn't.

It's just a greedy company using smoke and mirrors (in the form of contracts and 'partnerships') to employ masses of people to provide total coverage for SFA risk or cost.

There is a very good reason this 'industry' never existed in the past, and thats because, to work, it requires sidestepping legistlation and shitting on all the wage and workplace protections that society has spent generations establishing for the betterment of all.

That governments have allowed it now, should be something that society as a whole should be ashamed of. However, being the greedy entitled consumers we are, we only look at our own short term gains and can't see the forest through the trees...

I have no issues with companies using apps and technology to grow new industries, but if that new industry can't operate profitably within the existing legal and moral framework, then perhaps its not quite the 'great idea' its cracked up to be...

The technology exists to analyse whether a driver is actively online and ready to accept jobs. The driver should get paid a p/h retainer for every hour they are actually online and waiting for jobs, and then slightly less for the actual rides, but that (of course) puts some of the risk back in the court of the Company, and requires them to control the number of drivers on the road, so they are always busy (like a normal business) instead of just allowing unlimited ants to scrounge for crumbs at no risk to the company that is making all the money...


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## BuckleUp (Jan 18, 2018)

mistareno said:


> This isn't an industry, and if looked at with any degree of depth, it deserves to collapse.
> 
> Its a BS 'Gig' economy sham that has only ever succeeded by not complying to local legistlation and laws wherever it has gone, or by baffling the legistlators with BS that it was somehow different. It isn't.
> 
> ...


Mistareno for Prime Minister. You got my vote. Seriously.


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## KITT (Mar 28, 2017)

[QUOTE ="PasJes, post: 3870421, member: 142753"]So let's say in the ideal world, what type of pay and conditions would those of you who do Uber Eats want in order to keep you happy, or at least satisfied? Also being realistic...given it's a job you can just work when you want (can't do that if you work at Maccas or digging holes), the restaurants need to make money from the order and the delivery company also needs to make some money in order to keep going.

What kind of balance do you guys think is good for all parties?[/QUOTE]

1.3x anytime, anyday
1.5x for CBD pick-up or delivery
compensation every km beyond 3kms for pick up request.
compensation per minute of waiting if order is not ready upon arrival of driver.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

PasJes said:


> What kind of balance do you guys think is good for all parties?


An equal number of males and females.

.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

mistareno said:


> This isn't an industry, and if looked at with any degree of depth, it deserves to collapse.
> I have no issues with companies using apps and technology to grow new industries, but if that new industry can't operate profitably within the existing legal and moral framework, then perhaps its not quite the 'great idea' its cracked up to be...


That's a very good point and I agree with you 100%.

I wonder how many riders would accept a wage but also be considered employees and have to work specific hours? ie - you HAD to work X hours per week and between certain hours. Much less flexibility but you'd have to get certain things like holiday leave, super etc.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

Can I ask you guys...if scooters were supplied by these companies, what would be the best type? More of a powered bicycle or heavier scooter?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

PasJes said:


> How do you make sure drivers deliver quickly? No incentive to do as many deliveries as you can that way.


Performance and delivery stats. If they are slack and slow- out they go!



BuckleUp said:


> First you need to secure a minimum livable wage. Then you can offer a commission incentive per delivery.
> New real estate agents get paid this way under law. Before agencies hired a new agent only on commission with no base salaries. Work 40 hours but don't sell hence weekly salary is $0. That's exploitation. Now min base salary is under law.
> I see no reason why rideshare should not be the same.
> Any other job you still get paid. The guy at the back of Coles still gets paid while waiting for the Coles truck to rollup.
> When I was 18 got my first car did deliveries for a pizza kebab place in Elsternwick. It was $8/hr and $3 delivery fee. So no deliveries at least got min wage (this was 25 yrs ago).


Plus one free Kebab each night & Tips back then!!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

mistareno said:


> Work whenever you want, or be
> Online whenever you want? There is a HUGE difference.
> 
> Based on X, there are times of the day when I could be online for an hour or more without getting a ping if I was in a bad area.
> ...


Whilst Australia's education industry remains strong, attracting OVER 500,000 overseas students and our immigration continues to bring in over 200,000 new residents p/a then that is an endless supply of ants just there.

Generalising, they mainly come from countries that have no "employee protections", they've been exploited most of their lives, with Government agencies or sectarian violence threatening many of their lives on a regular basis.

I was told yesterday by one of my 6 UBERX drivers who now drive my Vans how a lot of the slums of Bombay developed. Many of the people who live in the Slums have actually got subsidised Govt housing somewhere. Fresh water, sanitation, school services close by etc. But they CHOOSE to rent out their Govt housing to someone who values those qualities of life. They pocket the difference

So, whatever our Western Society throws at many of these new arrivals, whatever exploitation or hardship, it will always be better than the worst they deal with back home.


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

mistareno said:


> Lower commision would be the obvious place to start.
> 
> Isn't it 35% on Eats?
> 
> ...


Yes Uber charges restaurateurs 35% commission on the food and customers a $6.95 delivery fee. However, most times the delivery fee paid to the delivery driver exceeds $6.95, even after Uber has deducted its service fee of 20-30% depending on the vehicle used (bike riders pay the highest service fee, cars the lowest) . Uber subsidises the delivery fee through the commission it charges restaurants. Due to the lazy reporting by what passes as journalists these days, people have come to believe Uber makes 35% of the cost of the food. This is completely untrue and in cases where only a little bit of food is ordered, Uber is actually losing money.


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

fields said:


> Yes Uber charges restaurateurs 35% commission on the food and customers a $6.95 delivery fee. However, most times the delivery fee paid to the delivery driver exceeds $6.95, even after Uber has deducted its service fee of 20-30% depending on the vehicle used (bike riders pay the highest service fee, cars the lowest) . Uber subsidises the delivery fee through the commission it charges restaurants. Due to the lazy reporting by what passes as journalists these days, people have come to believe Uber makes 35% of the cost of the food. This is completely untrue and in cases where only a little bit of food is ordered, Uber is actually losing money.


I'm interested to understand Ubers rational for charging bike or scooter riders a higher service fee? If the food is delivered in good order and in a timely manner, it shouldn't matter to Uber if you used a Bike a Car or a bloody Lear Jet?

They don't vary the UberX fee based on the car you drive...


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

fields said:


> Due to the lazy reporting by what passes as journalists these days, people have come to believe Uber makes 35% of the cost of the food.


I don't think that's the case at all. People just know that UberEats takes 35% commission on the order total...pretty sure just about everyone realises there are costs associated with running their business.



fields said:


> Uber is actually losing money.


And you would know that because? Obviously some establishment costs associated with companies like this, but once they are covered, you think this fee will come down? Established players are very profitable...I don't think UberEats is doing this as a charity exercise and MOST restaurants think they are being royally ripped off.

If they can't turn a profit with a 35% commission plus a delivery fee, then they don't deserve to be in business.


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

PasJes said:


> And you would know that because? Obviously some establishment costs associated with companies like this, but once they are covered, you think this fee will come down? Established players are very profitable...I don't think UberEats is doing this as a charity exercise and MOST restaurants think they are being royally ripped off.
> 
> If they can't turn a profit with a 35% commission plus a delivery fee, then they don't deserve to be in business.


If I order a $10 burger and the delivery is 3km away, Uber will charge $6.95 plus $3.50 (35% commission), but will pay the delivery guy around $13 after the service fee has been deducted. Uber loses $2.55. Even if the order was for $20, Uber would only make $0.95.

Stop believing what restaurateurs, journalists and the Uber haters tell you.


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## KITT (Mar 28, 2017)

I think Uber makes more money with multiple orders. Pays the driver with single pick up fee but charges both customers individually.


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

fields said:


> If I order a $10 burger and the delivery is 3km away, Uber will charge $6.95 plus $3.50 (35% commission), but will pay the delivery guy around $13 after the service fee has been deducted. Uber loses $2.55. Even if the order was for $20, Uber would only make $0.95.
> 
> Stop believing what restaurateurs, journalists and the Uber haters tell you.


Umm...maybe believe the actual figures instead...

https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/melbourne/delivery/

*The driver makes $12.80 before the Uber Service Fee. He only gets $8.96 in his pocket.*
Breakdown -
$5.45 pickup
$4.50 (1.5 per km)
$2.85 drop off
=
$12.80 (before service fee)
$8.96 (after 30% service fee)

So

Uber takes $6.95 from the Customer (fee)
Uber takes $3.50 from the Restaurant (commission)
= $10.45

$10.45 (paid to Uber from the Customer and Restaurant)
- $8.96 (paid by Uber to the Driver)
=$1.49 (profit made by Uber on a $10 burger)

So even in your hypothetical 'worst case scenario' that was supposed to show how Uber loses money on certain orders, you have in fact shown the opposite.

The house never loses.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

mistareno said:


> Umm...maybe believe the actual figures instead...
> 
> https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/melbourne/delivery/
> 
> ...


I'm inclined to think the delivery fee - *Uber takes $6.95 from the Restaurant (fee)*
is paid by the customer, not the restaurant. But I may be wrong.

.


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

mistareno said:


> Umm...maybe believe the actual figures instead...
> 
> https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/melbourne/delivery/
> 
> ...


My example was for a delivery 3km away, why is your example all of a sudden 1.5km? Why are you using 30% service fee which applies to bike riders?


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

Who is John Galt? said:


> I'm inclined to think the delivery fee - *Uber takes $6.95 from the Restaurant (fee)*
> is paid by the customer, not the restaurant. But I may be wrong.
> 
> .


Thanks, was supposed to be 'Customer'. Has been fixed.



fields said:


> My example was for a delivery 3km away, why is your example all of a sudden 1.5km?


It's not.

$1.50 x 3km = $4.50


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

mistareno said:


> 1.5 x 3 = 4.5


I am paid $2.20 per km to do an Eats delivery.


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## mistareno (Nov 9, 2017)

fields said:


> I am paid $2.20 per km to do an Eats delivery.


I can only go by what Uber publishes.

https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/melbourne/delivery/


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

mistareno said:


> I can only go by what Uber publishes.
> 
> https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/melbourne/delivery/
> 
> View attachment 231292


I am in Sydney

$5.50 pickup + $ 2.20 x kilometres + $3.50 dropoff = fare


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

.
It would appear that Sydney and Melbourne have different rates.
Who would have thunk it?

.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

What is t


mistareno said:


> Umm...maybe believe the actual figures instead...
> 
> $12.80 (before service fee)
> $8.96 (after 30% service fee)


What is the 30% service fee you're talking about here?


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## Slazenger (May 17, 2018)

mistareno said:


> Umm...maybe believe the actual figures instead...
> 
> https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/melbourne/delivery/
> 
> ...


No, Uber does lose on certain orders. See the attached delivery I did last weekend for just 1 pizza. Pizza was $21. I got $27.73 after Uber's service fee.
And I've done a few like them in a short time..


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## ILikeToEatStuff (Apr 14, 2018)

Sydney Uber said:


> Whilst Australia's education industry remains strong, attracting OVER 500,000 overseas students and our immigration continues to bring in over 200,000 new residents p/a then that is an endless supply of ants just there.
> 
> Generalising, they mainly come from countries that have no "employee protections", they've been exploited most of their lives, with Government agencies or sectarian violence threatening many of their lives on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


Even the "westernised" Indians I know have the same attitude of the poor Indians who come over and work for $3 an hour. They literally don't care how much they earn, as long as they get SOMETHING out of what they do. Be it a bed in a room with six other Indian blokes, $3 an hour, a meal, a potential citizenship certificate in three years, whatever. They don't care about employee protections or any kind of western workplace standards. And what do people say to this? Us Aussies are lazy and demanding


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## KITT (Mar 28, 2017)

Just recently I saw an Indian couple in doing deliveries in motorcycle. The wife has the bag at her back and holds the phone. Hardworking ants!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

ILikeToEatStuff said:


> Even the "westernised" Indians I know have the same attitude of the poor Indians who come over and work for $3 an hour. They literally don't care how much they earn, as long as they get SOMETHING out of what they do. Be it a bed in a room with six other Indian blokes, $3 an hour, a meal, a potential citizenship certificate in three years, whatever. They don't care about employee protections or any kind of western workplace standards. And what do people say to this? Us Aussies are lazy and demanding


One of my Indian drivers who I pay $33 p/hr clear to casually drive one of the Vans I manage, called me the other day saying he was going on a 3 day tour. He said they were paying his accomodation and food, whilst driving 10 tourists around the Hunter Valley. I advised him on a couple of websites to refer to for info and cellar door info, told him my favourite Restuarant's etc and asked him how many hours per day he would be needed.

"About 12-14hours on call each day" he said 
And what are you getting paid? I asked
"$480.00 " he replies. Well that's pretty fair I said, a litttle but more than what I pay him, but he does have greater responsibility for 10pax and their tour experience. 
"That's $480.00 for the 3 days" he corrects me!

Less than $13 p/hr, away from home and family. Crazy I thought!!. I ask who organised him the job. He replies an Indian Hire Car operator!

At that I understood and asked him why Indians so readily rip off their countrymen. He just laughed and said that's the way it is.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

Can I ask all of you guys that deliver for Uber Eats (or any of the others for that matter), do you have any loyalty to any of these companies? By that I mean, if another company entered the market, is there a reason you would prefer one over the other? Is it SOLELY about how much you are paid, or are there other factors?


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## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

PasJes said:


> Can I ask all of you guys that deliver for Uber Eats (or any of the others for that matter), do you have any loyalty to any of these companies? By that I mean, if another company entered the market, is there a reason you would prefer one over the other? Is it SOLELY about how much you are paid, or are there other factors?


I'm influenced by the fact I can do both food deliveries and passenger trips with Uber. No other company at present offers that in Australia.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

Jack Malarkey said:


> I'm influenced by the fact I can do both food deliveries and passenger trips with Uber. No other company at present offers that in Australia.


Interesting. Can I ask why that matters? Couldn't you just drive with Uber and deliver food with someone else? Or is there something particular about the Uber model that makes it that much better? Cheers.


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## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

PasJes said:


> Interesting. Can I ask why that matters? Couldn't you just drive with Uber and deliver food with someone else? Or is there something particular about the Uber model that makes it that much better? Cheers.


I have the app set to both Eats and passenger trips during the quieter periods and passenger trips only when it's busy. I like having them integrated in a single app for the convenience of it.

If I was doing only food deliveries, I'd probably select Deliveroo. My son delivers for them and my impression is that they treat their delivery partners better than Uber does through providing injury insurance and other benefits such as protective clothing.


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## Slazenger (May 17, 2018)

PasJes said:


> Interesting. Can I ask why that matters? Couldn't you just drive with Uber and deliver food with someone else? Or is there something particular about the Uber model that makes it that much better? Cheers.


Well if you do rides and deliveries with Uber, the requests will be aligned perfectly. You won't need to be on top by switching on and off the app that you are not working on.
Probably a slight inconvenience, but I find it easier doing both with the same app.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

Slazenger said:


> Well if you do rides and deliveries with Uber, the requests will be aligned perfectly. You won't need to be on top by switching on and off the app that you are not working on.
> Probably a slight inconvenience, but I find it easier doing both with the same app.


Fair enough...thanks for the info.

I wonder what percentage of Eats drivers also do passenger trips also?


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## Teri12 (Jul 20, 2016)

Jack Malarkey said:


> If I was doing only food deliveries, I'd probably select Deliveroo. My son delivers for them and my impression is that they treat their delivery partners better than Uber does through providing injury insurance and other benefits such as protective clothing.


It's true....... .....


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

PasJes said:


> Can I ask all of you guys that deliver for Uber Eats (or any of the others for that matter), do you have any loyalty to any of these companies? By that I mean, if another company entered the market, is there a reason you would prefer one over the other? Is it SOLELY about how much you are paid, or are there other factors?


No matter how reasonably priced, how many choices you have of Chinese restaurants, do you eat Chinese every day?

The biggest trap a Sub-contractor in the Gig Economy could fall into is showing ANY sort of "loyalty" to an app-based work provider.

You are TOTALLY expendable, replaceable and not worth the time engaging if YOU have a problem that only YOU will benifit from its solving.

Serve the App that has the next job next.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

Sydney Uber said:


> The biggest trap a Sub-contractor in the Gig Economy could fall into is showing ANY sort of "loyalty" to an app-based work provider.


What about if the riders could participate in a profit share arrangement based on their volume and rating...on top of what they receive for doing each job?


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## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

PasJes said:


> What about if the riders could participate in a profit share arrangement based on their volume and rating...on top of what they receive for doing each job?


In the United States, the rideshare company Juno initially had an equity ownership plan for drivers, showing it can be done.

As per Wikipedia:

'*Juno* is a US startup company in the ride-sharing business.

'Juno takes a smaller cut off every ride, as part of a strategy to attract and retain happier drivers.[1][2] Juno initially had an equity structure that planned to give drivers fifty percent of the founder's equity by 2026, but this program was discontinued in 2017 when Juno was acquired by Gett.[3]'

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(company))


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Jack Malarkey said:


> In the United States, the rideshare company Juno initially had an equity ownership plan for drivers, showing it can be done.
> 
> As per Wikipedia:
> 
> ...


That was fine in theory, but after Juno was acquired by Gett they refused to honour it and drivers subsequently sued them for breach of contract, false advertising, and securities fraud.


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## PasJes (Mar 6, 2018)

Thanks Jack...very interesting. Didn't work out so well for Juno!


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## Teri12 (Jul 20, 2016)

Jack Malarkey said:


> I'm influenced by the fact I can do both food deliveries and passenger trips with Uber. No other company at present offers that in Australia.


I am not loyal. I need to eat.


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