# Curtains for Lyft in 2015?



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Whatever you think of Uber, you've got to hand it to them; they are operating with the strategic ability of an expert chess player. It looks like the fare cuts are an extremely aggressive play to finally put Lyft out of business.

As pointed out by Forbes, the new ultra low Uber rates coupled with the guarantee structure mean that drivers who work to the guarantree rules (online 50 minutes of every hour, min 1 trip per hour, 90% acceptance) cannot also work for Lyft, or anyone else, at the same time.

There's little chance of drivers in markets like Nashville grossing $16 per hour, every hour they are online. Which means that Uber will be subsidizing driver earnings from their cash reserves.

Lyft has two choices - either maintain their prices and potentially lose market share, revenue and profit to Uber, or slash prices to match and also offer guarantees in order to keep the drivers whom Uber is trying to deny it via their guarantee program. Lyft has raised nowhere near the amount Uber has in funding - it is likely that, if it did this, it would run out of cash way before Uber did.

I hope Lyft survives this. I dislike Lyft in general, but for me they are definitely the lesser of two evils.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

Wow... those are really ****ed up guarantee rules! Particularly the "50 minutes of every hour", which I take it means _clock_ hour.. previous guarantees would be something like "online x number of hours between y and z am/pm" where you could break that time into whatever chunks you needed to so long as the total time met the minimum... Seriously how is this not crossing into employee territory with this dictation of rules? That's just evil.


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## UberFrolic (Sep 18, 2014)

Uber are using us...the drivers as the chess pieces, the pawns in their sick game of chess.

BLLLSHHHHHHTTTTT


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## Spanky (Jun 28, 2014)

If Lyft is smart they will raise rates. Drivers will move over. But with a slight increase and the power driver bonus they can eventually hurt Uber if Uber doesn't have enough drivers to meet demand. Riders will follow the company that has the most drivers.


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## UberFrolic (Sep 18, 2014)

LYFT LYFT LYFT


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Whatever you think of Uber, you've got to hand it to them; they are operating with the strategic ability of an expert chess player. It looks like the fare cuts are an extremely aggressive play to finally put Lyft out of business.
> 
> As pointed out by Forbes, the new ultra low Uber rates coupled with the guarantee structure mean that drivers who work to the guarantree rules (online 50 minutes of every hour, min 1 trip per hour, 90% acceptance) cannot also work for Lyft, or anyone else, at the same time.
> 
> ...


Now they're basically forcing drivers to behave like employees in order to make any income. Surely there's a lawyer out there who can argue this...


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

In denver tonight there are a LOT of drivers on Uber. Everyone's trying for those guarantees. 

But Lyft also has as many drivers as it normally does on a slow Friday night. Such that I waited 45 minutes after getting off work for a ping and got one short ride from some *********. 

Wonder how busy Uber will be when the guarantees end... Will it cause surges???


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

duggles said:


> In denver tonight there are a LOT of drivers on Uber. Everyone's trying for those guarantees.
> 
> But Lyft also has as many drivers as it normally does on a slow Friday night. Such that I waited 45 minutes after getting off work for a ping and got one short ride from some *********.
> 
> Wonder how busy Uber will be when the guarantees end... Will it cause surges???


Lots of uber drivers here tonight, too. Not much business for Lyft in this area, I'm afraid.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Spanky said:


> If Lyft is smart they will raise rates. Drivers will move over. But with a slight increase and the power driver bonus they can eventually hurt Uber if Uber doesn't have enough drivers to meet demand. Riders will follow the company that has the most drivers.


If that were that the case, Lyft would have been killin it in Albuquerque over the past few months. There are at least twice as many Lyft drivers on the road than Uber, and I'm averaging nearly 2-to-1 Uber:Lyft rides. Riders are going with what they hear most about, and face it, Lyft just doesn't make the headlines quite like Uber does!


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

Spanky said:


> If Lyft is smart they will raise rates. Drivers will move over. But with a slight increase and the power driver bonus they can eventually hurt Uber if Uber doesn't have enough drivers to meet demand. Riders will follow the company that has the most drivers.


They should definitely try to double rates and attract drivers at least in one market


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

All Lyft has to do is wait out the guarantees. Uber will eventually stop them.


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## haohmaru (Sep 18, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Lots of uber drivers here tonight, too. Not much business for Lyft in this area, I'm afraid.


I haven't turned the app on in a month but I don't get all the drivers. Why bother?


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

I didn't get a single Uber ping today. Left the app on. Too many drivers. But I took three Lyft calls on another phone.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Now they're basically forcing drivers to behave like employees in order to make any income. Surely there's a lawyer out there who can argue this...


There is.

She is right here:
Www.uberlawsuit.com

Actually Uber knows it's losing the battle to declare their workers Independant contractors. That's why they are arguing that Uber niether has employees or IC's. They are now shifting to describing their drivers as "customers". Simply put, they are saying Drivers are purchasing leads from Uber. It seems more legit than trying to argue the IC angle, however I have not read any court cases like this.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I didn't get a single Uber ping today. Left the app on. Too many drivers. But I took three Lyft calls on another phone.


No guarantee for you then.


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## UberRey (Sep 1, 2014)

Lyft is acquiring Uber drivers in droves right now. All of the best drivers burned by the new rate cuts will be offering their awesome services to Lyft pax. It's a good day. Who wants a referral code?


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

UberRey said:


> Lyft is acquiring Uber drivers in droves right now. All of the best drivers burned by the new rate cuts will be offering their awesome services to Lyft pax. It's a good day. Who wants a referral code?


Except that in most Lyft markets, demand can barely keep pace with the number of drivers. Even when I'm in PT zones it's hard to get pings, unless it's a city-wide busy weekend.


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## UberRey (Sep 1, 2014)

duggles said:


> Except that in most Lyft markets, demand can barely keep pace with the number of drivers. Even when I'm in PT zones it's hard to get pings, unless it's a city-wide busy weekend.


I guess I'm not familiar enough with other markets. Lyft is booming in Dallas/Ft. Worth.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

The idea that once Lyft dies off Uber will once again start to treat us better
is just wishful thinking, a fantasy.

Yes they will most likely raise the fares a little but also the commission.
They will reward themselves, not you !
And why should they?
Once you agreed to drive for $0.75 why on earth would they pay you $1.50 again?


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## DjTim (Oct 18, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Now they're basically forcing drivers to behave like employees in order to make any income. Surely there's a lawyer out there who can argue this...


If your only driving for Uber, sure you feel locked in. If your running multiple platforms like Lyft & Sidecar - your not forced to use Uber - that would be the defense.

If I'm driving in the city of Chicago and I get a ping for Lyft or Uber, I let the Uber ping expire and accept Lyft. Sure, if there is some guarantee in place I would lose that for Uber, but I could beat that hands down by taking 3 or 4 more Lyft rides.

This won't work in a city where Lyft paused operations or is REALLY light. I can't run Lyft in the suburbs of Chicago, it's just not known enough. For every 30 pings I get from Uber, I would get 1 for Lyft. In Chicago, it's almost 1 for 1 with pings.

In any location with multiple platforms - this is where your business acumen has to come out. I really feel like shit saying this, but if you only have Uber - you may need to look for something else rather then take the cheap shit guarantee.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

observer said:


> All Lyft has to do is wait out the guarantees. Uber will eventually stop them.


Why would Uber stop the guarantees? They have a track record of not paying their guarantees so why stop something they aren't going to honor anyway.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

DjTim said:


> If your only driving for Uber, sure you feel locked in. If your running multiple platforms like Lyft & Sidecar - your not forced to use Uber - that would be the defense.
> 
> If I'm driving in the city of Chicago and I get a ping for Lyft or Uber, I let the Uber ping expire and accept Lyft. Sure, if there is some guarantee in place I would lose that for Uber, but I could beat that hands down by taking 3 or 4 more Lyft rides.
> 
> ...


So Uber's defense is that since Lyft and Sidecar act properly in maintaining their workers as IC's, Uber doesn't need to? I don't think so. The issue isn't whether a driver has options of other companies to work for. The issue, when evaluating Uber, is whether or not their workers can work for Uber and other companies. Again, this is only a small part of the overall factors when determining employee vs. IC.

The question is can an IC accept other jobs while being an IC for Uber? The answer is yes, they just will not receive the guarantee.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

observer said:


> All Lyft has to do is wait out the guarantees. Uber will eventually stop them.


That's not accurate. It's far more complex than that.

If you want to understand the reasoning of a policy, you have to look at its designed effect (ie: what's the incentive, what's the result).
The Uber guarantees are an incentive to get drivers to commit to, say 4 hours in a shift - and stay on the road for that shift. If they do that in more active areas, they will exceed the guaranteed earnings (and Uber won't have to pay drivers anything additional). That's the way the guarantees work.

They are also an incentive to weed out casual drivers who want to just pop-up and drive for an hour and then disappear.

*Suppose the guarantee is $14/hr if you work a 4 hour shift.* 
During that 4 hour period your rides are:

Hour 1: 1 trip/$6.00
Hour 2: 2 trips/$26.00 
Hour 3: 3 trips/$18.00 and a missed 'ping'
Hour 4: 1 trip/14.00​
That's seven trips, totaling $54.00
$54 divided by 4 hours = $$13.50/hr

Now you might think that Uber is going to pay you an additional $2.00 for the shift (oh boy!) to make up the difference between $13.50/hr and the $14/hr guarantee... but you'd be wrong. Because you missed that one 'ping', you actually had 7 trips and one missed ride. That missed ride was 14% of your 'pings', meaning you accepted only 86% of your rides, not 90%.

*No guarantee is paid.*

And even If you eliminate the missed 'ping' from that scenario and made the 'guarantee' requirements, *you'd be paid LESS THAN $.008/min in 'guarantee' money* for your shift (that's right, less than one cent a minute guarantee 'bonus')


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Why would Uber stop the guarantees? They have a track record of not paying their guarantees so why stop something they aren't going to honor anyway.


Your conclusion is correct _("why would they stop paying them?")_ but your assertion is false.
Uber DOES pay their guarantees - when they are earned.

It's just that the qualification to make the guarantee is both difficult - and meaningless.

If a Uber driver is making more than the hourly average of the guarantee, then the guarantee has no effect on them (and Uber pays nothing additional).
If the Uber driver is making less than the hourly average of the guarantee, then there's a VERY high chance they won't qualify for the guarantee due to either missed/rejected pings or not maintaining the 1 ride per hour minimum.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> That's not accurate. It's far more complex than that.
> 
> If you want to understand the reasoning of a policy, you have to look at its designed effect (ie: what's the incentive, what's the result).
> The Uber guarantees are an incentive to get drivers to commit to, say 4 hours in a shift - and stay on the road for that shift. If they do that in more active areas, they will exceed the guaranteed earnings (and Uber won't have to pay drivers anything additional). That's the way the guarantees work.
> ...


That's funny. It did just the opposite! I was working 60 hours, but getting as little as 1 to 2 calls a day. Even the post-bar Rush has been slow.

Had their cuts been reasonable, I may have stayed on, but the cuts are extreme! To go from 1.30 to .75 is just absurd. And the guarantees of $10/hour before Uber's 20 percent and $1 srf is less than minimum wage.

Now they could have done what many companies do when a desired employee/"partner" gives notice: they could have tried to negotiate just compensation. They didn't. The only suggestions they made were to refer friends to drive (find my replacement/competition, basically) to make more money.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's funny. It did just the opposite!


Since these fare cuts and guarantees have been in effect for just over 24 hours, how do you know their effect yet (other than anecdotally?)
Unless we have access to Uber's overall data for a market, then all we can do is speculate on the actual impact to Uber as a company.

Don't get me wrong...
*I do NOT like what Uber is doing*
(hell, it's pushed me to make sure I keep my Lyft app on at all times and take those fares over Uber 'pings').
But it's not hard to see _why_ Uber is doing this.


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

I agree with Lyft raising rates, drivers would flock to them and uber would be forced to raise their rates. Lyft is really popular in Louisville for some reason, college town I suppose. I've don't more on lyft the past two months than uber


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Since these fare cuts and guarantees have been in effect for just over 24 hours, how do you know their effect yet (other than anecdotally?)
> Unless we have access to Uber's overall data for a market, then all we can do is speculate on the actual impact to Uber as a company.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...
> ...


What I meant to say was that it did the opposite for me. I was responding to the poster who suggested the goal of Uber's price change was to weed out the casual driver. I was logged in an average of more than 50 hours a week, but refuse to do it under these new rates knowing that the business still won't be there and the guarantees aren't even worth it.

Switching to Lyft.


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## Raquel (Jan 9, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> What I meant to say was that it did the opposite for me. I was responding to the poster who suggested the goal of Uber's price change was to weed out the casual driver. I was logged in an average of more than 50 hours a week, but refuse to do it under these new rates knowing that the business still won't be there and the guarantees aren't even worth it.
> 
> Switching to Lyft.


Lyft will lower their rates to lower than uber soon enough.. I'd be cautious about that..


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Lyft will lower their rates to lower than uber soon enough.. I'd be cautious about that..


If/when they do, I'd be out.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> If a Uber driver is making more than the hourly average of the guarantee, then the guarantee has no effect on them (and Uber pays nothing additional).
> If the Uber driver is making less than the hourly average of the guarantee, then there's a VERY high chance they won't qualify for the guarantee due to either missed/rejected pings or not maintaining the 1 ride per hour minimum.


it all depends on what the min guarantee is
esp in peak hours,could be much higher


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## lu181 (Nov 3, 2014)

Spanky said:


> If Lyft is smart they will raise rates. Drivers will move over. But with a slight increase and the power driver bonus they can eventually hurt Uber if Uber doesn't have enough drivers to meet demand. Riders will follow the company that has the most drivers.


I said the same thing in another post they have been fighting for customers through lower fares instead lyft should try to get driver loyalty with higher rates. Case in point would be Gett ran promotion 10 rides in NYNY cheaper than lyft and uber but they do not have many drivers thus lower rates did nothing for them and market share because customers could not get a ride when they wanted one. If lyft raises rates for drivers uber will eventually not be able to maintain enough drivers to meet demand thus lyft will become customers preference but this will take time and lyft is running out of time they need to hurry.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

lu181 said:


> I said the same thing in another post they have been fighting for customers through lower fares instead lyft should try to get driver loyalty with higher rates. Case in point would be Gett ran promotion 10 rides in NYNY cheaper than lyft and uber but they do not have many drivers thus lower rates did nothing for them and market share because customers could not get a ride when they wanted one. If lyft raises rates for drivers uber will eventually not be able to maintain enough drivers to meet demand thus lyft will become customers preference but this will take time and lyft is running out of time they need to hurry.


Not true. Lyft can pay all it wants but if there's too many drivers and you're sitting around getting 1 ride or less per hour, you're still making Uber money. Perhaps you're not putting as many miles on your car, but you're sitting around wasting your life.


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## lu181 (Nov 3, 2014)

duggles said:


> Not true. Lyft can pay all it wants but if there's too many drivers and you're sitting around getting 1 ride or less per hour, you're still making Uber money. Perhaps you're not putting as many miles on your car, but you're sitting around wasting your life.


True thats why regulations were imposed to prevent over saturation from illegal taxis like us otherwise yellow cabs would be on every corner drivers would make nothing the bases "tech companies" would make it all . just because uber/lyft have money to pay fines doesn't make it legal and why no one will win in court against these companies as there are laws in place about profiting from illegal activities. soon enough regulations will catch up and drivers will dwindle because most dont wanna pay for ins and go through hassle of getting proper licenses then real drivers will get paid accordingly no such thing as a part time taxi driver. of course before it all collapses investors and ceo will make out like bandits


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

lu181 said:


> True thats why regulations were imposed to prevent over saturation from illegal taxis like us otherwise yellow cabs would be on every corner drivers would make nothing the bases "tech companies" would make it all . just because uber/lyft have money to pay fines doesn't make it legal and why no one will win in court against these companies as there are laws in place about profiting from illegal activities. soon enough regulations will catch up and drivers will dwindle because most dont wanna pay for ins and go through hassle of getting proper licenses then real drivers will get paid accordingly no such thing as a part time taxi driver. of course before it all collapses investors and ceo will make out like bandits


Another casualty of underpaying drivers will be safety.

Drivers will have to choose between eating and fixing their cars. Once there have been a couple well publicized accidents the public may completely stop using Uber.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Since these fare cuts and guarantees have been in effect for just over 24 hours, how do you know their effect yet (other than anecdotally?)
> Unless we have access to Uber's overall data for a market, then all we can do is speculate on the actual impact to Uber as a company.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...
> ...


You have not been cheated out of *earned U*ber guarantees .... yet. Believe me your turn is coming.... hang tight. I would rather do lyft a million times or just log off and jagoff.


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## DC_Uber_Lyft_Driver (Sep 2, 2014)

If most of the drivers switched from Uber to Lyft, Uber would suddenly lack adequate coverage. Passengers would switch to Lyft because mostly what they care about is getting a ride quickly. However, If Uber lost coverage because their drivers all left for Lyft, this would cause surge rates to take affect which I can guarantee you would cause the drivers that left to return in droves.

It's a sick conundrum.


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## UberUber (Sep 21, 2014)

I've always thought the 2 companies would somehow merge


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## jfrodo (Jan 2, 2015)

Funny I seem to make money money with lyft fares these days, it used to be the other way around.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

I hope they both stay alive, a third competitor would be nice too.
If Uber will stay the only game in town they will do to us whatever they wish.
Monopolies are always bad.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> The issue, when evaluating Uber, is whether or not their workers can work for Uber and other companies. Again, this is only a small part of the overall factors when determining employee vs. IC. The question is can an IC accept other jobs while being an IC for Uber? The answer is yes, they just will not receive the guarantee.


I'm trying to figure out how this has anything to do with Independent Contractor status. Well, I guess I can see that there's an argument to be made about Uber setting the pricing of driver's services... but that's about it. Uber drivers work WHEN they want, WHERE they want and IF they want... all using THEIR OWN TOOLS and SUPPLIES. Those are the biggies in the Dept of Labor's and IRS' test for independent contractor status. Other 'test' parameters, however, fail: drivers cannot set the pricing for the services they provide (although in your Uber Driver Agreement you might be surprised that you actually DO have that right - Uber just gives you no way to do it)... and, lastly, drivers cannot outsource their service to be completed by someone else (although, this on is very minor - and may also not apply due to the wording of the Uber Driver Agreement).

In any case - yes, an independent contractor can do whatever they want. By the same token, the employer can do whatever they want, including deciding no to use that Independent Contractor in the future.

But here's the big surprise hidden in your Uber Driver Agreement: *Uber wants you to believe that you are an independent contractor - and that you work for Uber/Raiaser LLC, but it's not true*. While you may be an independent contractor of your services to the RIDER, you have no such relationship with Uber or Raiser. *According to your Uber Driver Agreement - the legally binding contract and the only thing that matters legally between the driver and Uber - Uber works for YOU.* The drivers pays Uber to use the Uber system and have Uber collect YOUR charges from a passenger and pass them on to you (and you pay Uber 20% plus fees for that service.

Read your Uber Driver's Agreement...
I bet you didn't know you were Uber's customer (not their employee).


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I'm trying to figure out this has anything to do with Independent Contractor status. Well, I guess I can see that there's an argument to be made about Uber setting the pricing of driver's services... but that's about it. Uber drivers work WHEN they want, WHERE they want and IF they want... all using THEIR OWN TOOLS and SUPPLIES. Those are the biggies in the Dept of Labor's and IRS' test for independent contractor status. Other 'test' parameters, however, fail: drivers cannot set the pricing for the services they provide (although in your Uber Driver Agreement you might be surprised that you actually DO have that right - Uber just gives you no way to do it)... and, lastly, drivers cannot outsource their service to be completed by someone else (although, this on is very minor - and may also not apply due to the wording of the Uber Driver Agreement).
> 
> In any case - yes, an independent contractor can do whatever they want. By the same token, the employer can do whatever they want, including deciding no to use that Independent Contractor in the future.
> 
> ...


You really need to educate yourself on recent cases involving IC vs. employee issue. It is very clear drovers are employees. The most important factor is the amount of control over the worker. It was even ruled that using a personal vehicle does not amount to a significant investment.

This is why Uber has changed their argument. They know they will lose the IC vs. employee argument. This is why they are now arguing that drivers are merely customers.

Keep in mind, any contract between the driver and Uber has no bearing when the employee status is determined. The law is still the law and a comtract between two parties does not change the law.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> You really need to educate yourself on recent cases involving IC vs. employee issue.


And "you really need to" be careful about how you tell someone else what they need to do. 

Worker classification is a major part of what I do in my 'day job'... and has been for over 15 years.
I have filed more SS-8's with the IRS than I care to remember. (If you don't know what an SS-8 is, feel free to - in your words - "educate yourself".)
So feel free to disagree with me... but maybe back-off on telling me what I need to do.

There are three factors considered when determining the classification of a worker:

*Behavioral*: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
*Financial*: Are the business aspects of the worker's job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
*Type of Relationship*: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?
As defined in the Uber Driver Agreement:
the PASSENGER is the employer, and
the DRIVER is a Self-Employed Independent Contractor hired by the passenger to provide transportation services,
and Uber is a third party service provider to both the employer and the independent contractor.
THAT is how the 'relationships' are defined, legally, by contract -
and until someone takes Uber to court over the issue, that's the way it stands.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small...ependent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And "you really need to" be careful about how you tell someone else what they need to do.
> 
> Worker classification is a major part of what I do in my 'day job'... and has been for over 15 years.
> I have filed more SS-8's with the IRS than I care to remember. (If you don't know what an SS-8 is, feel free to (in your words) "educate yourself".
> ...


I am glad you went and read this info on the IRS site. Since your job is worker classification, I'm sure this new information will help you out. It has changed in the last year as well.

FYI, there is a court case in California currently straightening this out.

And yes, only recently has Uber changed the User agreement, not that it matters.

The FedEx case and Sacramento Bee case will weigh heavily on the Uber ruling.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> If that were that the case, Lyft would have been killin it in Albuquerque over the past few months. There are at least twice as many Lyft drivers on the road than Uber, and I'm averaging nearly 2-to-1 Uber:Lyft rides. Riders are going with what they hear most about, and face it, Lyft just doesn't make the headlines quite like Uber does!


That's not quite true. I have both Uber and Lyft in Google alerts. I get about an equal number for both, all news articles and blogs.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I am glad you went and read this info on the IRS site.


I posted for your benefit since the information you posted was incorrect. I'm glad you found it useful.



> Since your job is worker classification, I'm sure this new information will help you out.


There is no 'new information' of relevance. Uber knew what it was doing when it wrote their Driver Agreement contracts - designed specifically to address the issue of worker classification.



> FYI, there is a court case in California currently straightening this out.


First, that is irrelevant to the CURRENT STATUS of Uber drivers and the liabilities we incur today, every time we get behind the wheel of our car with the Uber app running.
Second, the CA and MA cases are at the state level, are nowhere near being heard, adjudicated or ruled on, and even when that does happen (and Uber is finally forced to reclassify drivers as employees - the likely outcome), other states will then have to follow CA and MA lead and go through the entire court process (in each state). In other words, don't hold your breath. By the time Uber loses enough law suits (after appeals) they won't need drivers anyway since Kranlick has already announced his intention to place the first order for Google Driverless Cars.



> And yes, only recently has Uber changed the User agreement, not that it matters.


Thanks for bringing up another point that - as you say - 'doesn't matter'. The only thing relevant to drivers today, is what applies today. Today, Uber drivers are (incorrectly, but legally) classified as Independent Contractors.


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## Jonathan McKinney (Jan 29, 2015)

Does anyone have a view on being a Sidecar driver in Chicago? How often do pick ups and drop offs happen at places like U Chicago or Northwestern?


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## Large (Dec 19, 2014)

Jonathan McKinney said:


> Does anyone have a view on being a Sidecar driver in Chicago? How often do pick ups and drop offs happen at places like U Chicago or Northwestern?


Waste of time, don't even bother turning the App on because I never get rides


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> You really need to educate yourself on recent cases involving IC vs. employee issue. It is very clear *drovers* are employees.


Appropriate term.



IF I were an employee I would quit immediately.

IC status is determined by several factors. For example if drovers drive for multiple companies, such as Lyft/Sidecar, that is a partial disqual. for being an employee. Setting hours is another qualification that ride share doesn't do.

Every paid task has performance requirements, so that may be far down on the list of determination of employee status.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/29/us-lyft-workers-hearing-idUSKBN0L22LL20150129
From the article...
However, Chhabria said California legal precedents "point pretty strongly in the direction" that "people who do the kinds of things that Lyft drivers do here are employees."

Exactly what I have been saying.


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## PT Go (Sep 23, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And "you really need to" be careful about how you tell someone else what they need to do.
> 
> Worker classification is a major part of what I do in my 'day job'... and has been for over 15 years.
> I have filed more SS-8's with the IRS than I care to remember. (If you don't know what an SS-8 is, feel free to - in your words - "educate yourself".)
> ...


Uber has stated they are a technology company, not a transportation provider. It seems in this sense, they are a 'matchmaker'. Those in that time, had certain high standards that needed to be obtained if they wished to be matched with a party of their liking. Simplicity at its best. My riders, many times, asks how it works. My explanation is that Uber provides me with the technology (leads) and I can pursue them if I wish. However, there are 'standards' that must be met to provide the best quality experience. The customer/passenger as a payer of services, has the right to be provided that experience that the driver has agreed to with the 'matchmaker'. OK, I'm done now.


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## CLAkid (Oct 23, 2014)

Spanky said:


> If Lyft is smart they will raise rates. Drivers will move over. But with a slight increase and the power driver bonus they can eventually hurt Uber if Uber doesn't have enough drivers to meet demand. Riders will follow the company that has the most drivers.


Amen to that. The last thing Lyft should do is slash rates.


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## Chad Bilstein (Feb 1, 2015)

Lets all just start a new service called *LUBER!* Bend over, $5.00 to start and $1.00 a mile! No rating system, no complaining, Sand on the shaft you give the passenger is optional. Yea right...


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## Nick Starr (Feb 12, 2015)

I have pretty much given up driving for Lyft while these Uber Guarantees are going on with the exception of when I start driving and it isn't right at the top of the hour.


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