# I don't understand Uber high surges



## nononsense (Mar 24, 2016)

Who pays these rates? - Outside of special events, like NYE does anyone actually pays 3.0+ rates? I am a Lyft driver and both Uber and Lyft passenger
Lyft Primetime is capped at 250%
Uber's cap is much higher.

It defies the logic that on a regular days/morning/evening passenger would pay 3.0+ rate. Why don't they just haul or call a taxi?

Case in point. I was coming back home from a trip on a train few month back. Uber and Lyft decided to do a Surge 2.7X and 250% when the train arrived. There were 20 Taxi Cabs waiting at the train station with no line at all. I've simply taken a cab - it was a cheaper alternative. And this was at 2.X rates. 
Who would pay 3.X and higher rates and why?


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## numbakrunch (Sep 22, 2015)

You're so damn cheap, $2 a mile seems really expensive to you.


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## nononsense (Mar 24, 2016)

numbakrunch said:


> You're so damn cheap, $2 a mile seems really expensive to you.


And you sir is out of line for insulting me. Are you this way in life? Do you go barking at everyone who tries to talk to you?

I simply wanted to understand better/to start discussion on Surge realities.

And by the way in my market it would've been around $3 per mile for Uber at 3x surge vs $2.40 for Taxi. Why wait for Uber 10 minutes to pay higher rate when there were 20 taxis standing right in front of me.


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## nononsense (Mar 24, 2016)

nononsense said:


> And by the way in my market it would've been around $3 per mile for Uber at 3x surge vs $2.40 for Taxi. Why wait for Uber 10 minutes to pay higher rate when there were 20 taxis standing right in front of me.


Which begs a question - Does Uber or Lyft Surge algorithms Take into account availability of other transportation - Taxis/or other rideshare platforms near location of the surge, or they simply look at drivers/pax ration only for its own platform.


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## ScoopDogg (Feb 10, 2015)

I think what you are seeing is exactly what Uber and Lyft envisioned. Once people start using the service, they will see how superior it is to taxis and become loyal to it. So in the situation you described, with numerous taxis lined up waiting for a fare, these people still feel more comfortable hailing a Lyft or Uber despite the surge/primetime. Personally, in that situation, if the surge rate was even slightly higher than a cab fare, I'd take the Lyft or Uber. Now if the surge was 4x or more, I would begrudgingly take a taxi.


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

In my market a 3x surge is still cheaper than a taxi. This is because of the ridiculously low rate Uber charges. Not sure in your market but I would check it out before you assume the taxi is a cheaper ride.


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## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

nononsense said:


> Who pays these rates? - Outside of special events, like NYE does anyone actually pays 3.0+ rates? I am a Lyft driver and both Uber and Lyft passenger
> Lyft Primetime is capped at 250%
> Uber's cap is much higher.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't take a taxi.


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## nononsense (Mar 24, 2016)

Stygge said:


> I wouldn't take a taxi.


Hmm. I had a 40 mile ride from train station back home. Difference between Uber 3.x rate and taxi was about $0.60 per mile or about $24 total for the trip. Taxi was right there just get in and go. Uber X was $24 more expensive and was 10 minutes away and Y0u still would NOT take a Taxi?


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## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

nononsense said:


> Y0u still would NOT take a Taxi?


 No, I wouldn't.


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## LondonONTdriver (Oct 29, 2015)

Some people (the ones we should be targeting. Not the cheapos) will pay 5x the going rate just to not have to take a cab.

With all the cheapo pax taking minimum rides, combined with low rates to attract the cheapos uberX is a joke now.

When drivers realize they are driving for nothing they log off or delete the app. This creates surges. Smart drivers will only drive surges. My time is worth no less than 2x surge. Other are different.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

nononsense said:


> Hmm. I had a 40 mile ride from train station back home. Difference between Uber 3.x rate and taxi was about $0.60 per mile or about $24 total for the trip. Taxi was right there just get in and go. Uber X was $24 more expensive and was 10 minutes away and Y0u still would NOT take a Taxi?


So what's the problem.. you're happy with the taxi you got a quick ride and no Uber driver had to listen to you b!tch for and hour and change about the the surge. Win/Win!


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## nononsense (Mar 24, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> So what's the problem.. you're happy with the taxi you got a quick ride and no Uber driver had to listen to you b!tch for and hour and change about the the surge. Win/Win!


I am not *****ing I am simply asking how the surge is computed? I like to analyze things and as such I wonder if Uber and/or Lyft only consider availability of their own drivers and not other alternatives when deciding on the surge?

Would any Uber driver out there prefer to get 40 mile ride at 2x surge? And mind you - a ride with no traffic probably 1.5 hrs total roundtrip (to go back to a starting point) to earn at least $80.
Or rather give up that ride to a Taxi because 3x was above the price of the taxi?


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## Stygge (Jan 9, 2016)

If the situation was one demand and no supply, price would go up until the demand goes away or supply appears. The exact algoritm uber uses is not known but the principles are easy. It's fun to play with surge when you're the only driver in the area and there is at least one potential rider.
If the closest driver was 10 minutes away he probably had better offers than to pick you up.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

nononsense said:


> I am not *****ing I am simply asking how the surge is computed? I like to analyze things and as such I wonder if Uber and/or Lyft only consider availability of their own drivers and not other alternatives when deciding on the surge?
> 
> Would any Uber driver out there prefer to get 40 mile ride at 2x surge? And mind you - a ride with no traffic probably 1.5 hrs total roundtrip (to go back to a starting point) to earn at least $80.
> Or rather give up that ride to a Taxi because 3x was above the price of the taxi?


The surge is like an auction for a ride now. Higher demand for rides than drivers, those willing to pay more get the ride 1st. If you're willing to wait, you pay less. Why people would choose Uber over a cab? Lots of reasons, too many to list. In the circumstances you described, if it were only 20 more I'd go Uber, if it was 50 more I'd go cab. In general an Uber is a more comfortable ride.

If I can make $40 in 15 minutes and drive 10 miles I'd forgo an hour and a half 80 mile round trip for $80 every day of the week. After gas wear and tear and time, that 80 is more like 50.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Also l, in most markets 3x is cheaper to slightly more than a cab.


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## RedDragonQueen (Apr 2, 2016)

It's supply and demand if there are 3 pax for every 1 driver they need to tempt other drivers into coming out to drive in one way or another. So the tempt with higher pay. Most pax wait until surge goes down if they can.


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## mouchers (Nov 17, 2015)

I drive for Uber and Lyft and some of the passenger I take have used Taxi's in the past. They say one of the reason they don't take Taxi's is cause they don't like Taxi drivers they feel much more comfortable taking an Uber/Lyft cause they feel like they're getting a ride from a friend. They actually prefer to pay a higher surge than to take a Taxi ever again.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

What's so bad about cab drivers?


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## MulletMan (Mar 2, 2016)

SURGE ON!!!!...3.4 SURGE ACCEPTED IN ATL


MulletMan said:


> SURGE ON!!!!
> 
> View attachment 36796
> 
> ...


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Drunk college kids here pay $5.00 for their Uber to downtown or walk. Then they pay $16 for their Uber home. The cabs are 15 passenger vans that charge $5 each and make 9 stops and if you are last it takes 45 minutes. 4 riders on Uber split the fare and home in 5 minutes, cheaper than cab even when 3.9 surge.


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

I'd pay more money for Uber/Lyft then I would for a taxi . It's why I usually primarily take UberSelect it's still slightly cheaper then a Cab and it's 100x better . 
I do agree I've taken some crazy surge rides and I wonder why would you pay this . I took a 4.4X Uber Select Surge that's $8.80 a mile and $1.10 a mile


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

OP: Some people just do not like taking a cab.

As for what the Uber and Lyft algorithms are to set surge, I believe they are each different, and are more predictive than reactive.


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## the ferryman (Jun 7, 2016)

4th of July Lyft only went to 300% and Uber was at 5.5x and at the right moment Uber couldn't get enough drivers on the road - a rare moment to be savored.


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

People don't like dealing with cabs, cab drivers have a reputation of being rude, demanding cash instead of letting people use their card, the cars are always the same run of the mill Prius and usually feels dirty. Here in SD you can get Uber X for $1.10/mile Uber Select for $2.35/mile and a cab is $3.00/mile. Uber X needs to be around 3.0x in order to be more expensive than a cab, and even if it is, people prefer Uber, with Select, if it is surging, well, you get a nice luxury car as opposed to a Prius with a guy trying to get you in and out as fast as possible. Cab drivers did it to themselves, demanding cash, bringing people to atms because their "card reader is broken". It is embarrassing the way they use to treat passengers, now they need to step their game up and treat people right or get destroyed by Uber.

Also to the OP, this doesn't "defy logic", it only "defies logic" if people are looking for the cheapest way to get home and in the case of Uber surging, a cab "may" be the cheaper option. However if someone wants the quality of an Uber ride over a cab ride, they don't mind paying more. It is like saying it defies logic to ever take Uber Black, Uber Select, rent a limo etc. People pay more if they want more. Taking a cab is like bringing your car to a shitty body shop to repaint your hood, you are going to get the hood repainted, but you aren't going to get the same experience or quality of taking it to a proper body shop and paying more. Fortunately for Uber passengers, Uber is usually cheaper than a cab, only when it surges they have to pay more, but even then they still don't mind paying more.


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