# Canada Revenue Agency Tax return 2014



## biozon

I welcome Canadian Uber drivers to discuss declaring income for 2014 in this thread.

Questions I have so far:

1) What business code do you choose for business? Is it 48531/48532 "Taxi/Limo" or 485990"Other"?
2) Do you go the "Partnership" way or just the regular self-employed "professional income" way?
3) Do you state the "Telephone and utilities" and "meals" expenses on your tax return?

Welcome to discussion!


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## hasan

Hi,
I'm getting ready to file my taxes for 2014 and I'd like to know how to show my additional income from uber. Do I need a HST number?


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## biozon

You don't need to register the business (and collect HST) if your income from this business is less than 30K yearly. Since I cannot imagine a scenario when you can make more than 30K working for Uber, you don't need the HST.

You will need the T2125 form to declare your income. You can show all your expenses and deductions there, too.


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## Actionjax

biozon said:


> I welcome Canadian Uber drivers to discuss declaring income for 2014 in this thread.
> 
> Questions I have so far:
> 
> 1) What business code do you choose for business? Is it 48531/48532 "Taxi/Limo" or 485990"Other"?
> 2) Do you go the "Partnership" way or just the regular self-employed "professional income" way?
> 3) Do you state the "Telephone and utilities" and "meals" expenses on your tax return?
> 
> Welcome to discussion!


I haven't gotten that far yet but I think I will go with the Other route so as not to flag Tips as a source of income for Taxi/Limo. Just a guess here.

It will be self employed income and as far as Telephone and meals I would say no. (Unless you are using your own phone for Uber).

I use Uber's phone and still haven't got charged on it yet.


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## biozon

Yes, I'm using my phone for Uber.

As for tips - after almost 500 trips I have been tipped three times resulting in a whopping 7$ and misc cents. I really don't think it's worth reporting.


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## water4tips

I just started in 2015. Has anyone done the calculations on the t2125? I wonder if I can do a mock sheet on simple tax. And yes claim gas and maintenance phone and most importantly water! Not to mention car washes and armorall.. febreeze..I will fill the home office stuff for shits and giggles considering my office is an s4 in my den where i wait for pings. 
Or maybe just launder the money through a brangelina charity lol


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## water4tips

Oh and never claim cash tips. It's off the books. Why do you think the powers that be allow uber to exist. It's part of this trend towards a paperless fully trackable economy.
Anyway my point is you the tax payer are being fleeced of multitudinous billions by the big corporations yet never pay their fair share, out of 50 top corporations in Canada only 2 pay the required 25% of profits. The rest offshore it. And we're made to feel guilty for hoarding coffee money?


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## Actionjax

water4tips said:


> Oh and never claim cash tips. It's off the books. Why do you think the powers that be allow uber to exist. It's part of this trend towards a paperless fully trackable economy.
> Anyway my point is you the tax payer are being fleeced of multitudinous billions by the big corporations yet never pay their fair share, out of 50 top corporations in Canada only 2 pay the required 25% of profits. The rest offshore it. And we're made to feel guilty for hoarding coffee money?


Just be careful with that. Industries that have tipping revenue Canada expects to see that claimed as well. (They can't verify but if you don't they will give an estimate and count it)

That's why you may be best to stay away from Taxi limo classification. Uber does not receive tips but if you classify yourself in a tipping industry it could red flag if you don't. It would be easy to prove it but do you really want an audit for that?


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## biozon

water4tips said:


> I just started in 2015. Has anyone done the calculations on the t2125? I wonder if I can do a mock sheet on simple tax. And yes claim gas and maintenance phone and most importantly water!


 Water is most important, really? It costs 2$ for 10-15 bottles, I spent like 20$ during four months.

Gas being the main expense, of course, then depreciation and maintenance, then phone, then cleaning / deodorizing chemicals.

Car washes are also important if you buy them (I very rarely buy them, as I usually use my Esso points for that).

I started filling in (very roughly) T2125, but not yet completed.


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## Bob Smith

i got my first uber pay late, in January. so i need to keep all my receipts and logs for next year.


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## uberThere

biozon,

I was a CPA for a decade, so here are some things you should know. 

1) make sure that place your car, and other business assets in the correct classes as market value - your car should be Class 10, or 10.1 if it is over $30K plus HST
2) make sure you deem your assets disposed and claim any capital gains, but this is unlikely
3) unless you have a phone that is exclusively for Uber, you can't claim the base phone, but you can claim the portion of the data plan used for business
4) home office, you should dedicate a room for it and then use either the % of square footage, or the ratio of 1/# of rooms in your house - rule of thumb is it should be 15% or less
5) keep a detailed millage log, I can't stress this enough!!! Make sure it has all your deadhead miles, as well as any millage you use to run errands, 
6) water should be under entertainment and food, which is written off at 50%, but you could get a different opinion form another accountant.
7) all car expenses such as car washed, licences, insurance, loan interest are written off at the proportion that you use your car for business.

I hope this helps, if you have other specific questions, let me know.

Disclaimer, all information here should be considered for informational purposes only, and is not to be considered tax advice. You should consult your personal tax expert for your personal situation.


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## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> Just be careful with that. Industries that have tipping revenue Canada expects to see that claimed as well. (They can't verify but if you don't they will give an estimate and count it)
> 
> That's why you may be best to stay away from Taxi limo classification. Uber does not receive tips but if you classify yourself in a tipping industry it could red flag if you don't. It would be easy to prove it but do you really want an audit for that?


Technically, since Uber isn't a taxi or limo service, 485990 would be the correct alternative. Taxis and limos also have a better chance of being audited in my experience due to the tips and self-employment aspect.


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## Noobler

Thnxs guys alot of good info here.


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## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> Technically, since Uber isn't a taxi or limo service, 485990 would be the correct alternative. Taxis and limos also have a better chance of being audited in my experience due to the tips and self-employment aspect.


Thanks. Had a feeling about that.


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## biozon

*uberThere*
That is a very detailed and good piece of advice, thanks!

I was self employed in 2009-2012, so I know I can only write off relevant portions of rent, equipment, etc, that I use for my work.

Thankfully, I keep a detailed log of mileage for Uber that includes dead miles (start-stop), gas, etc, so that should be no problem. The Studiotax software I use allows to automatically calculate the percentage of Uber usage out of the overall mileage for the year. Thank includes the rest of the vehicle expenses as well.

Luckily, I started Ubering only in November 2014, so it shouldn't be an issue to audit myself in detail for declaring taxes.

One last question: since I started Ubering in November, do I have to report the overall mileage since I started with Uber and then the Uber part (and relevantly any vehicle expenses, such as gas, maintenance, repairs, etc, etc, only for that period [November-December] or do I still have to report the overall mileage for the whole year of 2014 and then the Uber part. See, my confusion here is that I didn't use the vehicle for Uber before November, so I don't know if I should use the specific period for declaration purposes or the whole year.

E.g (just for relevance, these are not actual figures).
1) In 2014 I drove 20000 kilometers overall (from January 1-st to December 31-st 2014). I spent 6000$ overall for my vehicle expenses in 2014 (including insurance, loan interest, gas, maintenance, repairs, licencing, car wash, etc, etc). Out of those 20000 I drove 5000 kilometers for Uber specifically (From November 7-th to December 31-st, 2014).

Therefore my Uber part of the overall vehicle expenses would be 25% in this case. Which corresponds to 1500$.

However if I use only the period I used the vehicle for Uber, it will be as following:

2) Since November 7-th till December 31-st I drove 7500 km overall. I spent 2000$ for this period. Out of those 7500 I drove 5000 kilometers for Uber specifically (From November 11-th to December 31-st, 2014).

Therefore my Uber part of the overall vehicle expenses would be 67% in this case. Which corresponds to 1340$.

Which of these scenarios should I use?

The actual figures will be different, of course, but there will definitely be a difference.

I tend to the first one.


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## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> Thanks. Had a feeling about that.


You were correct about that. If you really want to get audited, you should list yourself as a consultant. They seem to get a lot of love, too.


biozon said:


> *uberThere*
> That is a very detailed and good piece of advice, thanks!
> 
> I was self employed in 2009-2012, so I know I can only write off relevant portions of rent, equipment, etc, that I use for my work.
> 
> Thankfully, I keep a detailed log of mileage for Uber that includes dead miles (start-stop), gas, etc, so that should be no problem. The Studiotax software I use allows to automatically calculate the percentage of Uber usage out of the overall mileage for the year. Thank includes the rest of the vehicle expenses as well.


That means you're probably ahead of more than 90% of those who are driving for Uber. I'm really worried that many won't even realize that they actually have to claim their income as a business.



> Luckily, I started Ubering only in November 2014, so it shouldn't be an issue to audit myself in detail for declaring taxes.
> 
> One last question: since I started Ubering in November, do I have to report the overall mileage since I started with Uber and then the Uber part (and relevantly any vehicle expenses, such as gas, maintenance, repairs, etc, etc, only for that period [November-December] or do I still have to report the overall mileage for the whole year of 2014 and then the Uber part. See, my confusion here is that I didn't use the vehicle for Uber before November, so I don't know if I should use the specific period for declaration purposes or the whole year.
> 
> E.g (just for relevance, these are not actual figures).
> 1) In 2014 I drove 20000 kilometers overall (from January 1-st to December 31-st 2014). I spent 6000$ overall for my vehicle expenses in 2014 (including insurance, loan interest, gas, maintenance, repairs, licencing, car wash, etc, etc). Out of those 20000 I drove 5000 kilometers for Uber specifically (From November 7-th to December 31-st, 2014).
> 
> Therefore my Uber part of the overall vehicle expenses would be 25% in this case. Which corresponds to 1500$.
> 
> However if I use only the period I used the vehicle for Uber, it will be as following:
> 
> 2) Since November 7-th till December 31-st I drove 7500 km overall. I spent 2000$ for this period. Out of those 7500 I drove 5000 kilometers for Uber specifically (From November 11-th to December 31-st, 2014).
> 
> Therefore my Uber part of the overall vehicle expenses would be 67% in this case. Which corresponds to 1340$.
> 
> Which of these scenarios should I use?
> 
> The actual figures will be different, of course, but there will definitely be a difference.
> 
> I tend to the first one.


You would only include the operating expenses for the time you were running the business, and pro-rate the expenses based on that time frame, which is what you layout in choice number 2. Unless the rules have changed, you would also do the same for CCA because it is put in a 1/2 rule for the first year, anyways to account for this type of scenario.


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## biozon

*uberThere*
Thanks again!


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## erca

Hi !

Thank you for all this information.

I have a question regarding GST/HST. I use TurboTax. Do I write an amount for GST ? Do I leave it at zero if Uber income is less than 30k $ ?


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## erca

Another question : How do I claim CCA ? What should I write ??


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## uberThere

erca said:


> Another question : How do I claim CCA ? What should I write ??


CCA is claimed on page 5 of the T2125 form, but autos are claimed a bit different. 
If you have a car that is over $30K plus HST, then it is put in a separate class (10.1).

Since you can only claim the business % of the depreciation, you need to claim only the business portion available, and the rest remains in the ending UCC balance.
I hope that makes a bit of sense.


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## biozon

Well, just got an e-mail from Uber, which is very thorough to distance itself from any responsibility on taxes for Uber services. There must have already been an incident of someone reporting the Uber income and having trouble with it.









2014 EARNINGS INFO

Tax season is upon us and as a courtesy we would like to share some reminders:
_* Individual partners are responsible for determining their personal tax and GST/HST obligations in respect of transportation services they provide through the Uber platform, including registering and remitting any applicable tax.*_

CLICK FOR MORE INFO FROM THE CRA
Please note that Uber cannot provide tax advice and provides the above information only as a courtesy to partners.

In the e-mail there is also a commercial ad of some H&R block Canada folks that can report the income for you.

So, basically, Uber says once again:

1) We do not collect HST on drivers' behalf. And there is no way for a driver to collect HST as well.
2) However drivers are responsible for all tax obligations whatever they are.

Nice.

Way to go, Uber!


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## erca

So I have to reimburse GST/HST ?


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## Actionjax

biozon said:


> Well, just got an e-mail from Uber, which is very thorough to distance itself from any responsibility on taxes for Uber services. There must have already been an incident of someone reporting the Uber income and having trouble with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014 EARNINGS INFO
> 
> Tax season is upon us and as a courtesy we would like to share some reminders:
> _* Individual partners are responsible for determining their personal tax and GST/HST obligations in respect of transportation services they provide through the Uber platform, including registering and remitting any applicable tax.*_
> 
> CLICK FOR MORE INFO FROM THE CRA
> Please note that Uber cannot provide tax advice and provides the above information only as a courtesy to partners.
> 
> In the e-mail there is also a commercial ad of some H&R block Canada folks that can report the income for you.
> 
> So, basically, Uber says once again:
> 
> 1) We do not collect HST on drivers' behalf. And there is no way for a driver to collect HST as well.
> 2) However drivers are responsible for all tax obligations whatever they are.
> 
> Nice.
> 
> Way to go, Uber!


Yep got the same Email. Thing is if you made under $5000 last year don't worry. You are exempt. At least that's what I understand.

So just remember for this year you now need to deduct HST on all your rides for the government tax. Uber has just given you another 13% rate cut on your net amount.


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## erca

5000$? Where do you see that ?


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## biozon

Actionjax said:


> Yep got the same Email. Thing is if you made under $5000 last year don't worry. You are exempt.


 I couldn't find anything on this 5000$ exempt. Can you point me to it?


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## Actionjax

biozon said:


> I couldn't find anything on this 5000$ exempt. Can you point me to it?


Just looking for it. I heard this from an accountant but just confirming. But on top of this Uber does not send a receipt with a GST number on it so as far as I'm concerned it can't be tracked back to us. As much as they say we need to claim it I just looked back at a number of my receipts fro using Uber and I don't see anything HST related. And they would also need to claim the 20% and I would need an HST number form them.

The whole accounting just stinks of not having this set up properly.


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## Actionjax

Here is some info to help. I was wrong it's $30,000 per year you don't need to collect.

http://www.canadaone.com/ezine/oct03/gst.html


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## Prolific

erca said:


> Hi !
> 
> Thank you for all this information.
> 
> I have a question regarding GST/HST. I use TurboTax. Do I write an amount for GST ? Do I leave it at zero if Uber income is less than 30k $ ?


I have been searching for the same answer since last year. It is hard to find a definite yes or no. The CRA website has not given me any hard answers. Short answer: In my opinion, if your income is less than $30000 for all items that can be potentially HST collectible, you will be able to avoid paying HST.

Here is a piece of information that I repeatedly see on various outlets: 
"Uber: The CRA spokeswoman said she couldn't provide a conclusive response about whether Uber drivers need to pay HST without specifics. When passenger transportation fares aren't regulated by the province or municipality, drivers are only required to register and charge GST/HST if their worldwide annual taxable revenues exceed $30,000, she said. Altmin said drivers are responsible for complying with "all relevant taxes and regulations" required by law."
SourceWithheld due to forum requirements, I can post later if requirements are met and if anyone wants {1 post, 1 like, 1 day old membership})

However, an Uber spokes person told a rider "@WillRobertsn HST is built into the uberX fare, but driver partners remit themselves if required"
This would indicate that HST is collected on services and therefore should be remitted. However, without taking the "expert" opinion of the Uber rep at face value, I would think that Uber is paying HST (Less input tax credits) for its 20% that they retain. There are no line items on Uber invoices to customers, or partner payment statements, indicating there is a tax component. This leaves room open for obscurity and creates a grey area. 
Source: (Withheld due to forum requirements, I can post later if requirements are met and if anyone wants {1 post, 1 like, 1 day old membership})

One can argue that as a contractor you have provided a services for which you have collected payment, but have not collected any HST. Therefore, having an income threshold below 30000 from all HST collectible sources, and not having collected any HST, it may be acceptable, to not pay HST. At least, this is the direction I am leaning towards.

This is my own opinion and I am not a tax expert. This should not be considered tax advice.


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## Actionjax

Some other details here you may be classified as a Small Supplier.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/rgstrng/menu-eng.html

It's voluntary to register as one and benefits you if you claim back all the HST you spend outbound. You can get that back against what you pay out.

Small Supplier is identified as the following.

Small supplier

A small supplier refers to a person whose revenue (along with the revenue of all persons associated with that person) from worldwide taxable supplies was equal to or less than $30,000 ($50,000 for public service bodies) in a calendar quarter and over the last four consecutive calendar quarters.

Charities and public institutions are also considered small suppliers if they meet the gross revenue test of $250,000 or less.

To determine when you would cease to be a small supplier, see Small supplier limit calculation.

I'm not a tax lawyer or accountant but I think this is accurate.


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## Prolific

I got that same email from Uber months ago. I believe Uber is staying away from this topic in order to avoid liability issues.
Also, I think CRA is dancing around this topic in order to maintain a grey area, so they can maximize revenues. By providing minimal information, they are forcing people to do their own research on the topic. This will cause many people to "play it safe" and pay the tax man that HST. This allows them to collect taxes while preventing people from realizing that it is voluntary and not enforceable.
Since Uber is not legislated under Taxi service, it is not required to register for HST (as long as other requirements and thresholds are met). Therefore, the revenue can be treated as "Small Supplier" revenue. Link shared by Actionjax above.
This is my own opinion and I am not a tax expert. This should not be considered tax advice.


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## erca

This is all interesting !

In the end, with a Home Business, it turns out I won't pay much taxes after all.

If I remit the HST, I can also claim back the HST I paid for in expenses for vehicle AND home business. Basically, for just under 4K$ in fares in 2014, it turns out to be not that much.


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## uberThere

biozon said:


> Well, just got an e-mail from Uber, which is very thorough to distance itself from any responsibility on taxes for Uber services. There must have already been an incident of someone reporting the Uber income and having trouble with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014 EARNINGS INFO
> 
> Tax season is upon us and as a courtesy we would like to share some reminders:
> _* Individual partners are responsible for determining their personal tax and GST/HST obligations in respect of transportation services they provide through the Uber platform, including registering and remitting any applicable tax.*_
> 
> CLICK FOR MORE INFO FROM THE CRA
> Please note that Uber cannot provide tax advice and provides the above information only as a courtesy to partners.
> 
> In the e-mail there is also a commercial ad of some H&R block Canada folks that can report the income for you.
> 
> So, basically, Uber says once again:
> 
> 1) We do not collect HST on drivers' behalf. And there is no way for a driver to collect HST as well.
> 2) However drivers are responsible for all tax obligations whatever they are.
> 
> Nice.
> 
> Way to go, Uber!


It's a grey area under the law, and it's all how you spin it. Uber is claiming they are a payment system, so they aren't responsible for HST - I think they have the lawyer to win that.


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## uberThere

erca said:


> This is all interesting !
> 
> In the end, with a Home Business, it turns out I won't pay much taxes after all.
> 
> If I remit the HST, I can also claim back the HST I paid for in expenses for vehicle AND home business. Basically, for just under 4K$ in fares in 2014, it turns out to be not that much.


Note to everyone:
I can answer any questions related to HST, so please fire away. In Ontario, if you register for HST, then you need to calculate it as follow:

HST = fares/113 * 13

Erca,

you don't technically hold back, you file your revenues + HST, and then claim input credits.


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## uberThere

Prolific said:


> One can argue that as a contractor you have provided a services for which you have collected payment, but have not collected any HST. Therefore, having an income threshold below 30000 from all HST collectible sources, and not having collected any HST, it may be acceptable, to not pay HST. At least, this is the direction I am leaning towards.
> 
> This is my own opinion and I am not a tax expert. This should not be considered tax advice.


If you are below $30K and don't register then you are free to record the entire amount as fares, and not fares + HST. It's only if you register that you need to claim the fares as including HST.


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## biozon

Prolific said:


> an Uber spokes person told a rider "@WillRobertsn HST is built into the uberX fare, but driver partners remit themselves if required"


 I smell bullshit in this spokes person's statement. If it was built in, there would be a breakdown similar to those you get on the receipt for filling in gas, where HST is included, but is also stated as a separate item on a receipt.

E.g.:
Price/L: $1.209
Fuel total: $83.45
HST in fuel: 9.60
Subtotal: $83.45


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## uberThere

biozon said:


> I smell bullshit in this spokes person's statement. If it was built in, there would be a breakdown similar to those you get on the receipt for filling in gas, where HST is included, but is also stated as a separate item on a receipt.
> 
> E.g.:
> Price/L: $1.209
> Fuel total: $83.45
> HST in fuel: 9.60
> Subtotal: $83.45


It's included like the tip, which is to say you're on your own here.


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## biozon

If anyone is interested, I filed my taxes using StudioTax in the end of March and it was assessed by CRA without any issue already.

I used advice of *uberThere* (once again, thank you, sir!) and stated that my business fiscal year started when my first ride with Uber ride happened (November 2014).
I used 485990 Industry code.
I calculated around 1200$ expenses for business part of rent, supplies, meals and telephone / utilities.
My business motor vehicle expenses were around 1200$ as well, including gas, maintenance and repairs, interest, insurance and licence/registration fees (business part only).
My CCA (class 10) was about 4100$.

So total loss was about minus 4500$, as you can see, mainly because of the depreciation.

That loss added about 1000$ to my tax return on top of what I would have received back if I only reported my full time job income.

Which is more or less fair, I think. It adds around 30% to my Uber income for 2014.

Let's see what happens in 2016. Although, judging from latest news (police crackdown on Uber in Toronto and continuous negotiations with the city) it will come to something like in New York, where you actually have to obtain a licence to drive Uber (which is not that complicated in New York, but I'm sure Toronto is much more capable of coming up with a process that will simply defy all purpose to do it). So I'm not sure if I will be driving after May anymore.


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## uberThere

biozon said:


> If anyone is interested, I filed my taxes using StudioTax in the end of March and it was assessed by CRA without any issue already.
> 
> I used advice of *uberThere* (once again, thank you, sir!) and stated that my business fiscal year started when my first ride with Uber ride happened (November 2014).
> I used 485990 Industry code.
> I calculated around 1200$ expenses for business part of rent, supplies, meals and telephone / utilities.
> My business motor vehicle expenses were around 1200$ as well, including gas, maintenance and repairs, interest, insurance and licence/registration fees (business part only).
> My CCA (class 10) was about 4100$.
> 
> So total loss was about minus 4500$, as you can see, mainly because of the depreciation.
> 
> That loss added about 1000$ to my tax return on top of what I would have received back if I only reported my full time job income.
> 
> Which is more or less fair, I think. It adds around 30% to my Uber income for 2014.
> 
> Let's see what happens in 2016. Although, judging from latest news (police crackdown on Uber in Toronto and continuous negotiations with the city) it will come to something like in New York, where you actually have to obtain a licence to drive Uber (which is not that complicated in New York, but I'm sure Toronto is much more capable of coming up with a process that will simply defy all purpose to do it). So I'm not sure if I will be driving after May anymore.


I'm glad to help, just remember to keep all receipts, and make sure you have your mileage log - that is key because without it, you risk a huge penalty.

I'm just curious when you mention rent - I take it this is for a home office? In that case, it can't be used to increase a loss, but can be carried forward. BTW, I'm interested as to why you claimed the whole amount of CCA? You can certainly do this, but I usually suggest that you don't try to take a huge loss in the first year based on CCA. Again, nothing wrong, but I'm just cautious due to my accounting background.

Edit, just a thought...I'm guessing that studio tax picked up the stub-year for the 1/2 year rule. When I mentioned the rule, it slipped my mind that the tax program should automatically pro-rate based on the time you placed in - I'm so used to this already being accounted for. If not, then I strongly suggest that you file an amendment before the fall. I'd say don't panic, but check out the deduction. I haven't used Studio Tax to know if it picks it up, but most programs actually do.

Edit 2: I just noticed that you may not work past May, in that case, you probably don't need to worry. It takes a lot to do an audit, and you aren't worth the time - no offence. ;-)


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## DoneUbering

Hello guys,

I read through this thread and can see you are all ahead of me in understanding this pain called tax. And the more I read the more lost I become. 

I did some brief uber driving last year (2014) and the total income I received was 314 CAD divided into different payments. Now that I am reading all these posts and other articles online I realized I made a mistake by not having a single receipt for gas, oil change, or mileage counting. 

Given the little amount of income I made I feel that it is not worth fighting to save few bucks of tax exemptions on the cost of fighting a tax audit. I don't think I am going to ask for any exemptions given that I have no receipts and the small income I made.

- What should I do to just claim that I made this much money and get over done with this taxation headache? 
- I don't know how much I should expect to be charged based on this little income. Any idea guys?
- So the story in short is, what should I put in this long and confusing T2125 form. I am not expecting you to fill up the form on my behalf, but I will appreciate any guidelines you may want to share.

Thanks


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## uberThere

DoneUbering said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I read through this thread and can see you are all ahead of me in understanding this pain called tax. And the more I read the more lost I become.
> 
> I did some brief uber driving last year (2014) and the total income I received was 314 CAD divided into different payments. Now that I am reading all these posts and other articles online I realized I made a mistake by not having a single receipt for gas, oil change, or mileage counting.
> 
> Given the little amount of income I made I feel that it is not worth fighting to save few bucks of tax exemptions on the cost of fighting a tax audit. I don't think I am going to ask for any exemptions given that I have no receipts and the small income I made.
> 
> - What should I do to just claim that I made this much money and get over done with this taxation headache?
> - I don't know how much I should expect to be charged based on this little income. Any idea guys?
> - So the story in short is, what should I put in this long and confusing T2125 form. I am not expecting you to fill up the form on my behalf, but I will appreciate any guidelines you may want to share.
> 
> Thanks


Normally, I would just say this is a hobby, and tell you to forget the whole thing - i.e. claim neither income, nor expenses. However, since Uber will likely be under the microscope then you need to claim the income. You obviously can claim something, do you have the mileage from your Uber statements? You can claim your insurance, estimate your fuel, and this should get you to zero or close enough. Don't claim CCA because it sounds like this is your only year, so it won't be available to you.

Edit: even if you claim the full amount, and no deductions, you'd only pay tax on your marginal tax rate. This will still suck, so try to get as much out of it as you can.


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## DoneUbering

Thank you uberThere.

I just logged to my Uber account. The information that I can say I have are the date, time, duration, miles, and fare. So as far as a properly documented information this is what I basically have.

As for gas estimate should I just put a number that I best estimate based on my car's gas consumption? Remember that I won't be able to provide any supporting proofs for this.

And how should I claim the insurance? do I claim the full month amount or an estimated/guessed pro-rated value of my payment?

And yes, that was the only time I did ubering and I don't plan on doing it again due to all the legal issues surrounding this service (I'd rather be safe). Therefore I assume your statement on skipping CCA is still valid.


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## uberThere

DoneUbering said:


> Thank you uberThere.
> 
> I just logged to my Uber account. The information that I can say I have are the date, time, duration, miles, and fare. So as far as a properly documented information this is what I basically have.
> 
> As for gas estimate should I just put a number that I best estimate based on my car's gas consumption? Remember that I won't be able to provide any supporting proofs for this.
> 
> And how should I claim the insurance? do I claim the full month amount or an estimated/guessed pro-rated value of my payment?
> 
> And yes, that was the only time I did ubering and I don't plan on doing it again due to all the legal issues surrounding this service (I'd rather be safe). Therefore I assume your statement on skipping CCA is still valid.


You should base your fuel on your l per 100KMs, which is easy if you have a trip computer, and then you should be able to get the average gas price off a Internet search. If you purchased your fuel with a credit card, then just use that. As for insurance, if you should pro-rate it based on the miles you drove when you were active vs. your total miles when you were active. So if you were active for 1 month, then use the 1 month premium pro-rated on your business/ttl miles, the same if you were active two months, etc. Don't forget your licence, and your home office - based on the months you were active. Of course, this is likely a lot of work as you would only owe a maximum of 50% on your earnings. So you have to decide if the money is worth it.

As for CCA, don't claim it if you are doing this for the first and last year.


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## DoneUbering

uberThere said:


> You should base your fuel on your l per 100KMs, which is easy if you have a trip computer, and then you should be able to get the average gas price off a Internet search. If you purchased your fuel with a credit card, then just use that. As for insurance, if you should pro-rate it based on the miles you drove when you were active vs. your total miles when you were active. So if you were active for 1 month, then use the 1 month premium pro-rated on your business/ttl miles, the same if you were active two months, etc. Don't forget your licence, and your home office - based on the months you were active. Of course, this is likely a lot of work as you would only owe a maximum of 50% on your earnings. So you have to decide if the money is worth it.
> 
> As for CCA, don't claim it if you are doing this for the first and last year.


Yeah, it seems to be lots of work. Would it be acceptable if I just do the gas and insurance exemption? What happens if I don't claim any exemptions (just declared the income and that's it). Is it OK from a legal standpoint?


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## uberThere

DoneUbering said:


> Yeah, it seems to be lots of work. Would it be acceptable if I just do the gas and insurance exemption? What happens if I don't claim any exemptions (just declared the income and that's it). Is it OK from a legal standpoint?


Yes, you don't have to claim expenses. The rule is that you are obliged to declare income, but expenses are up to the discretion of the tax payer. In other words, we will force you to pay more than you have to if you don't say otherwise.


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## biozon

uberThere said:


> I'm just curious when you mention rent - I take it this is for a home office?


 Yes.



uberThere said:


> In that case, it can't be used to increase a loss, but can be carried forward.


 I just punch in the numbers, Studio Tax calculates everything itself.



uberThere said:


> BTW, I'm interested as to why you claimed the whole amount of CCA? I'm guessing that studio tax picked up the stub-year for the 1/2 year rule. When I mentioned the rule, it slipped my mind that the tax program should automatically pro-rate based on the time you placed in


 Studio Tax has prorates it automatically, yes.



uberThere said:


> I just noticed that you may not work past May, in that case, you probably don't need to worry. It takes a lot to do an audit, and you aren't worth the time - no offence.


 None taken! I like to think of myself as small fish in the pond and not worth attention.


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## uberThere

biozon said:


> Yes.
> 
> I just punch in the numbers, Studio Tax calculates everything itself.
> 
> Studio Tax has prorates it automatically, yes.
> 
> None taken! I like to think of myself as small fish in the pond and not worth attention.


Biozon,

You will have a carry-forward of your office expense, you should see this on your summary account. You can use this next year if you actually make money - big 'if', I know.

Is TO really becoming as unfriendly to Uber as Ottawa?


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## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> Biozon,
> 
> You will have a carry-forward of your office expense, you should see this on your summary account. You can use this next year if you actually make money - big 'if', I know.
> 
> Is TO really becoming as unfriendly to Uber as Ottawa?


Don't think they are. 11 Drivers pulled over on a few days hardly even makes an impact. And the charges laid will be dropped. It's someone trying to make a name for themselves. As for Council I am sure they are pissed at the Taxi companies right now due to the court case they lost in Jan for trying to force plate holders to transfer the owner plates into TTL licences. Sounds like council wanted reform as much as the public but were stopped by the taxi companies and plate owners.

I feel Toronto will see to it Uber has a home here with regulations in place.


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## biozon

uberThere said:


> Biozon,
> 
> You will have a carry-forward of your office expense, you should see this on your summary account. You can use this next year if you actually make money - big 'if', I know.


 Unfortunately I can't see any carryovers in my assessment 



uberThere said:


> Is TO really becoming as unfriendly to Uber as Ottawa?


 I wouldn't say as unfriendly, but there was a police crackdown in the beginning of March and apparently something like 13 drivers received tickets for violation of licence and insurance from police.



Actionjax said:


> Sounds like council wanted reform as much as the public but were stopped by the taxi companies and plate owners.


 Which is understandable as licence plates are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars nowadays.



Actionjax said:


> I feel Toronto will see to it Uber has a home here with regulations in place.


 I agree.


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## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> Don't think they are. 11 Drivers pulled over on a few days hardly even makes an impact. And the charges laid will be dropped. It's someone trying to make a name for themselves. As for Council I am sure they are pissed at the Taxi companies right now due to the court case they lost in Jan for trying to force plate holders to transfer the owner plates into TTL licences. Sounds like council wanted reform as much as the public but were stopped by the taxi companies and plate owners.
> 
> I feel Toronto will see to it Uber has a home here with regulations in place.


I wasn't aware they were moving from the plates to the TTL, but I'm looking at the website right now and it talks about the TTL. Are you saying there are two classes of taxi cab licences in Toronto - the plates and the TTL?

I'm guessing they will do something along the lines of a TTL with mandatory training, and background checks.


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## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> I wasn't aware they were moving from the plates to the TTL, but I'm looking at the website right now and it talks about the TTL. Are you saying there are two classes of taxi cab licences in Toronto - the plates and the TTL?
> 
> I'm guessing they will do something along the lines of a TTL with mandatory training, and background checks.


There are actually 3.

Owner
Ambassador 
TTL

All have their own rules. But owner plates are the ones that people can hold on to and sell yet never drive.


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## uberThere

biozon said:


> Unfortunately I can't see any carryovers in my assessment


Did you claim your rent on line 8910 by chance?



> I wouldn't say as unfriendly, but there was a police crackdown in the beginning of March and apparently something like 13 drivers received tickets for violation of licence and insurance from police.
> 
> Which is understandable as licence plates are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars nowadays.


I recall the province was talking about enacting legislation to make it easier for municipalities to regulate TNCs, have you heard anything else on it?


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## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> There are actually 3.
> 
> Owner
> Ambassador
> TTL
> 
> All have their own rules. But owner plates are the ones that people can hold on to and sell yet never drive.


I remember when I lived in TO they didn't seem to be able to do anything simple, I see it hasn't changed. ;-)


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## biozon

uberThere said:


> Did you claim your rent on line 8910 by chance?/QUOTE] Yes.


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## uberThere

Ouch, that should have gone in the home office expense. Still, not a big deal because you'd get it back this year. We call this a reversing error.


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## Craig Morton

I have a registered transportation service in Peterborough ON, and have an HST number. I just started driving for Uber in Toronto and Muskoka as an income supplement (I take people to YYZ frequently, so after a trip I figure to go online for Uber) -- The HST thing is confounding, my accountant discovered that limo/taxi companies (I have a city of Peterborough limo licence) are for whatever reason not eligible for the $30k exemption. So I have set my flat rate prices to include HST and log them in quickbooks as such. However, as far as I am concerned HST collection should be UBER's responsibility since they collect the payment. Why should some Uber rides be subject to HST and not others. And if I submit my Uber earnings as HST taxable, it would seem I would then need to provide my clients with a receipt with an HST number on it, and would be in the position of collecting HST on the entire fare even though I only received a portion of it. I think CRA and Uber are in for a showdown at some point, and would be interested in a tax lawyer's perspective on the above. I will get my accountant's advice on what to do with Uber revenue and post it here.


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## onelanka

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but, how do you actually pay the tax? On which form?


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## biozon

T2125 to declare.

Your bank account details for debiting any tax or crediting any tax refund.


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## evans

Hello Biozon, So I am just doing a trial run of my 2015 tax refund. So I drive a Lexus IS250 which was brand new in November 2014. So I just put in the depreciate for $44,000. The calculated cost for the business is $13200, and the whole sum is carried as an expense. It looks like to me that this is not affected by the percentage of mileage I drive or the number of months out of the year I drive. It just seems as long as I drive in any of the month, it will count.

If that is true, pretty much I wont be paying a dime on all my earning (whether I put in HST or not). In fact, I will be getting much more tax return on my real job.

Can someone shine some thoughts on this


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## JPmorganfreeman

evans said:


> Hello Biozon, So I am just doing a trial run of my 2015 tax refund. So I drive a Lexus IS250 which was brand new in November 2014. So I just put in the depreciate for $44,000. The calculated cost for the business is $13200, and the whole sum is carried as an expense. It looks like to me that this is not affected by the percentage of mileage I drive or the number of months out of the year I drive. It just seems as long as I drive in any of the month, it will count.
> 
> If that is true, pretty much I wont be paying a dime on all my earning (whether I put in HST or not). In fact, I will be getting much more tax return on my real job.
> 
> Can someone shine some thoughts on this


Let's set up a basic scenario then understand the implications:

- Real job pays you $78,000/year. No RRSP contributions, no deductions at this point. Status quo.

- Uber income is $12,000/year. Expenses you can write off against this income are a) $7200 lease payments - $600/mo b) $2000 in gas c) $700 cell phone d) % of home for home office, say $3000.

When you record the income, you owe tax at your marginal tax rate. Let's say that $12,000 income gets taxed at 35%. You owe $4200 in taxes.

When you record expenses against that income, you get a credit. Total expenses were $12,900. Your 'business' would show a loss of $900 and you would get a cheque from the government in June, not a bill. This would be the same as not declaring the $12,000 income, and making a $900 RRSP contribution.

JPM


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## biozon

*evans*

Sorry, I missed your message.

You are correct, that's what happened to me this year when filing taxes for the past year. Mind you that I was only driving since November last year, so this year the refund will be much much bigger.


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## biozon

JPmorganfreeman said:


> Let's set up a basic scenario then understand the implications:
> 
> - Real job pays you $78,000/year. No RRSP contributions, no deductions at this point. Status quo.


 That is not a basic scenario. 78 Grand a year is way too much for an average worker. Average Canadian salary before any deductions is less than 50K a year. So 78K is way too optimistic. It's even more than a median household income in Canada.


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## popiston

biozon said:


> I welcome Canadian Uber drivers to discuss declaring income for 2014 in this thread.
> 
> Questions I have so far:
> 
> 1) What business code do you choose for business? Is it 48531/48532 "Taxi/Limo" or 485990"Other"?
> 2) Do you go the "Partnership" way or just the regular self-employed "professional income" way?
> 3) Do you state the "Telephone and utilities" and "meals" expenses on your tax return?
> 
> Welcome to discussion!


Hi Biozon,
Could you please tell me if you registered a business to file tax 2014?
I　would like to do the same next year. Thank you so much for your many great posts.


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## biozon

Hi.

I already had a business. A different business.

And you don't have to register, because your income from Uber will definitely be less than 30K.

Just file as self-employed.


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## Bob Smith

Great info.


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## biozon

For some reason this Canadian thread was moved to "Garage".

Anyway, Uber drivers can start filling in taxes to prepare for the February filing date.

As self-employed, I've used the freeware StudioTax since 2010, including my Uber self employed income for 2014. Great software.

The year 2015 software is now available for those who are starting to fill in the taxes:
http://www.studiotax.com/en/?page=1

Hope this helps.


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## Bob Smith

I think I want to hire a tax pro due to my personal situation in owning a business that didn't make much money in 2014 either.Declaring 2 bad income years is a little sketchy for me. 2016 will be a good income year for me. As I got a decent job in my career field.But 2015 i lived at home got paid under the table and drove uber where I made maybe 18k minus expenses and depreciation of like 45k km. Don't want to owe CRA anything and wouldn't mind a little money back too.


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## Bob Smith

Anyone got any suggestions?


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## Actionjax

Bob Smith said:


> Anyone got any suggestions?


My advice is speak to an accountant. I'm not one for giving advice on these kind of situations and my accountant deals with my stuff. But you want to claim things so you can write off those expenses. Otherwise you are throwing your money away.


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## ZaPHoN

Speaking of Ontario

There is no exemption from paying taxes on any income. However, that being said there are plenty of people that don't declare cash income. The name of the game is how to maximize your earnings by playing by the rules or hiding untraceable income. If you think Uber is untraceable you best think again when it comes the reach of the CRA. Trust me on this because I know a forensic auditor from CRA and my accountant is a former CRA general auditor who knows all the tricks.

The $30,000/year is the limit where CRA requires you to register for a tax number. Up to $30,000/year and registering for a tax number is optional. Under that about and you can claim the taxes under your personal income tax unless it is a registered corporation you are operating as (not likely as an Uber driver).

You may also have to register with WSIB as well depending on the new classifications that come out in 2016. If not then you may have to request a declaration from WSIB which will have to be filled out by each driver, then sent to Uber to be filled out to be be returned back to the driver and finally sent to WSIB by each driver for a ruling by WSIB.

Ultimately this tax issue will land Uber in an undesirable place very quickly with CRA which is why the CRA is investigating and unless Uber starts collecting taxes on behalf of the "independent contractor" as they do the regular charges, they will lose a lot of drivers very fast. If Uber digs it's heals in on this issue then the CRA will simply bring a court order to audit all Uber accounts which opens up a lot of contractors to some tax problems down the road. If CRA want's to get real nasty about it they can simply seek a cease and desist order for all operations in Canada until there is compliance.

There is only one way out of this for Uber and the contractors. Uber starts collecting the taxes and the drivers start declaring it while utilizing other related tax write-offs.

The reality is, all Uber drivers will get nailed in the end because they are collecting income and not the related taxes.

If anyone has any true understanding of business they will quickly realize that they as an Uber driver cannot utilize tax laws to decrease their tax liability. Uber drivers are essentially employees at this stage of the game because of the access to tax write-offs.

Now there is an interim option that isn't exactly legit but allows you to take advantage better access to write-offs to reduce a tax liability by having a registered sole proprietorship or corporation then that business/entity could help offset some of the tax liability driving for Uber.

Face the stark reality that as an Uber driver you will be eventually losing an additional 13%+ on your earnings not to mention any penalties to CRA when they catch up to you.

I do hope Uber and Uber concepts do prevail but there are some battles you need to lose in order to win the war.



Have fun.


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## Rudhy

Hi there,
I did Uber only for a 3 days and stop due to some issues, total income $100.06 (trips earning) + $100 (referral fee). How do you I prepare my 2015 tax return and how to fill out T2125?. Thanks


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## Actionjax

Rudhy said:


> Hi there,
> I did Uber only for a 3 days and stop due to some issues, total income $100.06 (trips earning) + $100 (referral fee). How do you I prepare my 2015 tax return and how to fill out T2125?. Thanks


I wouldn't bother. That's not going to red flag the CRA. Legally you need to claim all income. But lets face it there are times you are not going to bother. If you made $40 from babysitting would you claim it?


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## jambone

hello


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## jambone

I made about $950 with UberX in 2015, should I claim it? and if it requires filling the T2125 form it is directing me to claim it as professional income or is this business income.

thanks for the help.


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## Uber-AJ

The advice and tips on this post are great, for any year!


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