# New sh*t from Uber



## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

How to beat this one?


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Take every ping.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Uninstall the app and sell weed


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## afrojoe824 (Oct 21, 2015)

wow thats something new lmao


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## bestpals (Aug 22, 2015)

What is NaN minutes????


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## yolo25 (Aug 31, 2015)

uberpa said:


> How to beat this one?
> View attachment 20286


The pimp aka UBER wants you to accept as many johns as possible or get HIT with a timeout.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

Well, isn't it obvious? Count to "NaN" and log back on.


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

Have you emailed support? This is the first I'm hearing of this so I'm thinking its a system issue not showing the time probably but it does make drivers take more requests vs just looking for surge trips. If I had to guess I'd say 24-48 hours would be the probable wait time.


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## ten25 (Oct 4, 2015)

'NaN' means 'not a number' - in other words their programmer screwed up somewhere.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

You mean that 19 year old pimply faced virgin they keep in the basement?


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

Lmao @ "nan". Only "nan" I know is the song by Trick daddy.


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## Jason T (Oct 9, 2015)

Lets us know how long it takes to log back in! Taking every ping is not worth it. That's my opinion. Neither is going online to reject pings. Driving during the surge times or close to the surge period is the best... Well it's the best for me. I drove a client 20 miles and UBER charged her $115.00 dollars during peak times. NOT BAD UBER.... I'm learning about the best area's and time to work....Working for UBER on a part-time basis can bring me extra money to buy me some headrest car TV's soon! I only drive on a part-time basis. Not interested in making this my career.


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

Jason T said:


> Taking every ping is not worth it. That's my opinion.


Shid, that's a fact!


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Uber in a way is right with this one "and you would do the same thing if you where in their shoes", and I hate this corporation like everyone else, if you don't want to use the app then just turn it off, no one is forcing you to turn it on, and do whatever you please with it "you are running a business, and it's pretty unprofessional by constantly rejecting dispatches, if you where a limo company that driver would be getting the boot", it's still Uber's app and you signed an agreement "did you read it" to use it as instructed or otherwise just keep it off. It's not so hard to comprehend.
You all hate uber but at the same time like to use their service for your needs, it can't be only good for you when it's convenient.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Jason T said:


> Lets us know how long it takes to log back in! Taking every ping is not worth it. That's my opinion. Neither is going online to reject pings. Driving during the surge times or close to the surge period is the best... Well it's the best for me. I drove a client 20 miles and UBER charged her $115.00 dollars during peak times. NOT BAD UBER.... I'm learning about the best area's and time to work....Working for UBER on a part-time basis can bring me extra money to buy me some headrest car TV's soon! I only drive on a part-time basis. Not interested in making this my career.


I didn't bother going back online that night. So I don't know how long nan would be! But I don't think uber can afford to ban drivers for a long period of time in this situation. A couple of 20 min pings mean no drivers in the area.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

ORT said:


> Uber in a way is right with this one "and you would do the same thing if you where in their shoes", and I hate this corporation like everyone else, if you don't want to use the app then just turn it off, no one is forcing you to turn it on, and do whatever you please with it "got are running a business, and it's pretty unprofessional by constantly rejecting dispatches, if you where a limo company that driver would be getting the boot", it's still Uber's app and you signed an agreement "did you read it" to use it as instructed or otherwise just keep it off. It's not so hard to comprehend.
> You all hate uber but at the same time like to use their service for your needs, it can't be only good for you when it's convenient.


I guess you don't get 20 min pings in nyc.
Btw, limo drivers get paid by the company plus tips from the passenger. They don't worry about gas or depreciation of cars.
I always tell pax who called after I cancelled with $5 fee "this is uber not limo"!


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

uberpa said:


> I didn't bother going back online that night. So I don't know how long nan would be! But I don't think uber can afford to ban drivers for a long period of time in this situation. A couple of 20 min pings mean no drivers in the area.


I would get away from that thinking - Uber alone seems to have doubled the drivers in my area within a month so banning a few that don't do work for those that accept anything because they're newbies is exactly their game plan


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## Steve_Chatt (Nov 15, 2014)

This is a thing. You get like a 10 minute time out if you don't accept so many in a row. Lol.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

uberpa said:


> I guess you don't get 20 min pings in nyc.
> Btw, limo drivers get paid by the company plus tips from the passenger. They don't worry about gas or depreciation of cars.
> I always tell pax who called after I cancelled with $5 fee "this is uber not limo"!


Yes we do. And no limo drivers who still use their own cars, can't just do as they please with the system, as the clients are not theirs but the Companies.
And what's wrong with a 10 minute timeout, really, it's only 10 minutes, this just shows your desperation.


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## Ubernice (Nov 6, 2015)

uberpa said:


> How to beat this one?
> View attachment 20286


This is unfair since we are IC we can decide which Ping to take and which not


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## the_professor (Oct 6, 2015)

I find that I get logged out after three refused pings. But I just log back in again.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

ORT said:


> Yes we do. And no limo drivers who still use their own cars, can't just do as they please with the system, as the clients are not theirs but the Companies.
> And what's wrong with a 10 minute timeout, really, it's only 10 minutes, this just shows your desperation.


A 10-minute timeout imposed by a company who's supposed to recognize that you're an *Independent Contractor* is bull. This causes us to miss out on closer/better/Surging pings because Uber has decided to play parent-child relationship instead of true IC and put you in timeout for being a bad child.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> A 10-minute timeout imposed by a company who's supposed to recognize that you're an *Independent Contractor* is bull. This causes us to miss out on closer/better/Surging pings because Uber has decided to play parent-child relationship instead of true IC and put you in timeout for being a bad child.


You don't get it.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

ORT said:


> You don't get it.


Okay, Uber scientist, can you explain it for me?

I fail to realize why I should be punished for refusing three 15+ minutes-away trips in a row if I'm an independent contractor and thus should have the right to turn down unprofitable requests.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Nan is a yummy Indian flat bread. So go to your closest Indian restaurant and ask to count their nan. Simple.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

ten25 said:


> 'NaN' means 'not a number' - in other words their programmer screwed up somewhere.


progammer was durnk


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> Okay, Uber scientist, can you explain it for me?
> 
> I fail to realize why I should be punished for refusing three 15+ minutes-away trips in a row if I'm an independent contractor and thus should have the right to turn down unprofitable requests.


You have to look at it from the business mindset of Uber (working for a bank I've had to do this quite a lot to not go nuts at work consistently)

Uber needs passengers and they need better publicity - it doesn't help them if riders are constantly saying they can't get a ride even though it says an Uber driver is available. Yes we can spread the word that the company sucks - and look how much of you do - but Uber is still growing because the passenger doesn't care about you - the passenger cares about getting from point A to point B. The passengers viewpoint of Uber is going to matter more on social media and their revenue then your viewpoint unfortunately.

Also, Uber has spent how much money to employee workers, social media analysts, marketing, support staff, etc. to keep the company growing. As an "independent contractor" you aren't seeing any of those costs. Yes you have overhead in the terms of your car, gas, and maintenance, but you aren't paying rent for a building or a few thousand dollars a month for a marketing team to generate you leads and to have a server to host the app and website on.

So think of yourself as a pseudo independent contractor. You're getting paid to work generated leads and get to create your own hours and work "from home" but in return you are asked to hold a high level rating and to accept a certain number of rides to keep the company in good ratings with the public.

Now if you truly want to be an independent contractor then I would love to see you stop driving for Uber, create your own app, create your own marketing and social media plan, buy your own insurance, and let me know how much of a profit you are getting per month turning down the requests you get at that point that are 10 minutes away.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Uber is a pimp! Pimp doesn't case about hookers! Hookers don't do it without money!
It's as ugly as it is in the uber world and even worse!


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

uberpa said:


> Uber is a pimp! Pimp doesn't case about hookers! Hookers don't do it without money!
> It's as ugly as it is in the uber world and even worse!


Then just stop driving, simple.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

ORT said:


> Then just stop driving, simple.


There's no pimp without hookers!
Most Hookers do it due to financial difficulties!
There's always smart pimps find new ways to exploit hookers! So far uber is the best!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

ORT said:


> Then just stop driving, simple.


Rather than being a know it all, you might want to consider that different regions have different challenges. I get a ping Sat. night taking me 8 miles away from the surge area, I'm not taking it, sorry. I head 2 miles back to the surge and get a $20 or 30 fare instead of driving 18 or 20 miles just to service what could be a $2.40 net fare. I am a rat, I press the bar in my cage to get pellets based on how I am incentivized to do so. If rates weren't so low, we wouldn't have the pressure to reject calls that we do now. You don't understand that being in NYC where you probably aren't ever going more than 10 blocks to get a call. So why don't you do what works for you and not feel the need to shill for Uber. When they stop lying to us, cheating us and treating us like we are disposable, I'll start being loyal to them.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> Okay, Uber scientist, can you explain it for me?
> 
> I fail to realize why I should be punished for refusing three 15+ minutes-away trips in a row if I'm an independent contractor and thus should have the right to turn down unprofitable requests.


You have every right to turn down those pings and it probably makes sense to do so within reason. Uber also has every right to turn off drivers who cherry pick rides.


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## HotRodriguez75 (Oct 16, 2015)

DNicole said:


> You have to look at it from the business mindset of Uber (working for a bank I've had to do this quite a lot to not go nuts at work consistently)
> 
> Uber needs passengers and they need better publicity - it doesn't help them if riders are constantly saying they can't get a ride even though it says an Uber driver is available. Yes we can spread the word that the company sucks - and look how much of you do - but Uber is still growing because the passenger doesn't care about you - the passenger cares about getting from point A to point B. The passengers viewpoint of Uber is going to matter more on social media and their revenue then your viewpoint unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Let me dumb down the business side as a independent contractor and as a business professional. Uber sends request that is 15 minutes away. I arrive because I am looking at the business mindset of Uber. I wait 5 minutes for the PAX. I start trip and see the destination. 2 miles and 5 minutes. So I just spent 25 minutes and earned $2.00 before expenses. My vehicle costs are $.57 per mile (IRS standard) @ let's say say the trip was 10 miles total since Uber's business mindset is what we have to look at, that trip just cost me $5.70 and I only earned $2.00. So I just lost $2.70 on that trip plus 25 minutes of my time. So from these real life numbers, that $2.70 I did not lose is my profit from that missed trip.

Also, learn how to communicate. Replace "you's" with "I's". Uber sheeple!


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## POMilton (Oct 21, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> Uninstall the app and sell weed


Less liability, less headache, more profit and more appreciation from customers...HA!


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

HotRodriguez75 said:


> Let me dumb down the business side as a independent contractor and as a business professional. Uber sends request that is 15 minutes away. I arrive because I am looking at the business mindset of Uber. I wait 5 minutes for the PAX. I start trip and see the destination. 2 miles and 5 minutes. So I just spent 25 minutes and earned $2.00 before expenses. My vehicle costs are $.57 per mile (IRS standard) @ let's say say the trip was 10 miles total since Uber's business mindset is what we have to look at, that trip just cost me $5.70 and I only earned $2.00. So I just lost $2.70 on that trip plus 25 minutes of my time. So from these real life numbers, that $2.70 I did not lose is my profit from that missed trip.
> 
> Also, learn how to communicate. Replace "you's" with "I's". Uber sheeple!


I personally see IRS standards as fairly high - but then again I only pay $1.60 for gas and I'm not paying out the roof for things like oil changes and tires. I've figured out my deprecation costs for my vehicle by taking what I paid (before taxes) to what the trade in value is now for a private dealer, not lot (which is lower) to figure out that each mile costs me $.13 in depreciaton, along with $.05 in gas, $.006 for an oil change and tire rotation, and $.004 for tires. So thats $.19 for my car - now older cars that get bad gas mileage and people that live in areas where gas is more expensive and cost of living is more expensive are going to have closer to that $.57 per mile. The IRS doesn't say compact vs truck.

So for me, for my last 2 mile trip I earned $4.30. Let's say it was 10 miles - so with my car that is worth $1.90 - so I made a profit of $2.40. Does it suck that you then only made $7.20 an hour - yes but not all rides are like this.

Also if you drive a car that gets horrible gas mileage then maybe this isn't the job for you.

My "you's" were in direct response to a person not me talking about myself


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

HotRodriguez75 said:


> Also, learn how to communicate. Replace "you's" with "I's". Uber sheeple!


The post you quoted made perfect sense, no need to be a dick because you are unable to comprehend that the Uber universe doesn't revolve around you making money.

If you are using a vehicle that costs you $0.57 to operate I would suggest a doing something else with your time. Still, the example you gave doesn't sound like a the best use of your time but not every ride is going to be a 5x surge money maker. Some rides are clearly better than others. A ride or 2 like the one you described sucks but hopefully you make up for it during the rest of the night. If all rides are like that pick a different day or location.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

DNicole said:


> You have to look at it from the business mindset of Uber (working for a bank I've had to do this quite a lot to not go nuts at work consistently)
> 
> Uber needs passengers and they need better publicity - it doesn't help them if riders are constantly saying they can't get a ride even though it says an Uber driver is available. Yes we can spread the word that the company sucks - and look how much of you do - but Uber is still growing because the passenger doesn't care about you - the passenger cares about getting from point A to point B. The passengers viewpoint of Uber is going to matter more on social media and their revenue then your viewpoint unfortunately.
> 
> ...


So, what you're saying is... I should go pick up at that 25-minute/14-mile ping because my overhead isn't as significant as Uber's?


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> You have every right to turn down those pings and it probably makes sense to do so within reason. Uber also has every right to turn off drivers who cherry pick rides.


There's a huge difference between cherry picking and unprofitable.

No, Uber should redefine my relationship with them if I will be disciplined for turning down what I deem a loss.

Okay, so, all of you Uber shills that have Uber's back on this: is it ever acceptable from "the business perspective" for any of us to turn down a request? Where does Uber draw the line? Why even have that "No UberX Available" message on the pax app if any request, no matter how far, should be promptly attended to by the nearest available Uber slave?


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> There's a huge difference between cherry picking and unprofitable.
> 
> No, Uber should redefine my relationship with them if I will be disciplined for turning down what I deem a loss.
> 
> Okay, so, all of you Uber shills that have Uber's back on this: is it ever acceptable from "the business perspective" for any of us to turn down a request? Where does Uber draw the line? Why even have that "No UberX Available" message on the pax app if any request, no matter how far, should be promptly attended to by the nearest available Uber slave?


My thing is I get rejecting some pings. But I see Ubers viewpoint in creating discipline for doing it consistently due to the fact that some drivers don't do it because of how far away it is but most do it because it's not a surge or XL request.

Every job has consequences even this one. I'm sure people that sell Avon and all those things have certain guidelines they need to follow as well


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> So, what you're saying is... I should go pick up at that 25-minute/14-mile ping because my overhead isn't as significant as Uber's?


I've never had a ping be more than 15 minutes away. So I'm not sure what market where 25 is normal cause from my house if there isn't someone within 15 minutes I get told no uberx available.

But normally if I get one that's 15 away from Ubers standpoint I can get there in 10 and normally they're driving downtown which means it's a long fare in my city.


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

never seen that before


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

I usually get logged off after rejecting 2 pings


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

DNicole said:


> My thing is I get rejecting some pings. But I see Ubers viewpoint in creating discipline for doing it consistently due to the fact that some drivers don't do it because of how far away it is but most do it because it's not a surge or XL request.
> 
> Every job has consequences even this one. I'm sure people that sell Avon and all those things have certain guidelines they need to follow as well


That's all I've been saying is that turning down pings isn't always done maliciously. When these long periods of time-out are put into place then you hurt the good persons sometimes, and take them out of the queue for nearby requests. Why not instead improve the algorithm that matches the partner with the rider to stop pinging more than 10 minutes away or something?


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

DNicole said:


> I've never had a ping be more than 15 minutes away. So I'm not sure what market where 25 is normal cause from my house if there isn't someone within 15 minutes I get told no uberx available.
> 
> But normally if I get one that's 15 away from Ubers standpoint I can get there in 10 and normally they're driving downtown which means it's a long fare in my city.


It isn't a matter of consistency. It just happens every now and then. I was out in Wylie, TX, a little suburb of Dallas after a drop off. I hung out at a QuikTrip parking lot, got a ping from nearby Fairview, TX, but clearly a 25-minute drive. I let it ping out. That was my only missed ping and I got hit with a 12-minute timeout.

Their stuff is flawed.


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> That's all I've been saying is that turning down pings isn't always done maliciously. When these long periods of time-out are put into place then you hurt the good persons sometimes, and take them out of the queue for nearby requests. Why not instead improve the algorithm that matches the partner with the rider to stop pinging more than 10 minutes away or something?


But they aren't doing this to someone that rejected one its to people that are sitting there rejecting consistently. It's the same BS that people pull that accept and cancel 5 times in the same passenger. A majority of cases it's fully malicious and deserves a full 24 time out in my opinion. If it was me after 3 non completed trips in a row (I.e straight out reject or accept and cancel within 5 minutes) with a different requester not the same you should be banned for 24 hours. There are plenty of other drivers out there to take over demand


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> It isn't a matter of consistency. It just happens every now and then. I was out in Wylie, TX, a little suburb of Dallas after a drop off. I hung out at a QuikTrip parking lot, got a ping from nearby Fairview, TX, but clearly a 25-minute drive. I let it ping out. That was my only missed ping and I got hit with a 12-minute timeout.
> 
> Their stuff is flawed.


Is your market a really wide market distance wise?

But if that's the case with you getting a timeout they aren't doing it consistently across the board to all drivers which isn't fair.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

ORT said:


> Uber in a way is right with this one "and you would do the same thing if you where in their shoes", and I hate this corporation like everyone else, if you don't want to use the app then just turn it off, no one is forcing you to turn it on, and do whatever you please with it "got are running a business, and it's pretty unprofessional by constantly rejecting dispatches, if you where a limo company that driver would be getting the boot", it's still Uber's app and you signed an agreement "did you read it" to use it as instructed or otherwise just keep it off. It's not so hard to comprehend.
> You all hate uber but at the same time like to use their service for your needs, it can't be only good for you when it's convenient.


Wow! That's some, shall we say, "creative" writing.


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## docswife (Feb 24, 2015)

So that error message is nothing new to us Dallas folks! You ignore 3 pings in a row, you receive a 9 minute "time out" from Uber. As a surge surfer, I know this message all too well.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> There's a huge difference between cherry picking and unprofitable.
> 
> No, Uber should redefine my relationship with them if I will be disciplined for turning down what I deem a loss.
> 
> Okay, so, all of you Uber shills that have Uber's back on this: is it ever acceptable from "the business perspective" for any of us to turn down a request? Where does Uber draw the line? Why even have that "No UberX Available" message on the pax app if any request, no matter how far, should be promptly attended to by the nearest available Uber slave?


Don't know why you have to continue with the "Uber shills" nonsense. You can make a point without resorting to that can't you?

My point was of that yes you don't have to take unprofitable rides. But if almost all rides are unprofitable you should go do something else and not expect to stay active while declining 90 percent of your fares.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

I guess all markets are different, I've never seen a ping over 10 mins, or even a long ride besides the airport.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> Don't know why you have to continue with the "Uber shills" nonsense. You can make a point without resorting to that can't you?
> 
> My point was of that yes you don't have to take unprofitable rides. But if almost all rides are unprofitable you should go do something else and not expect to stay active while declining 90 percent of your fares.


The language employed by what we call Uber shills is very Pro-Uber. I'm just calling it as I see it.

No one disagrees with that. In Dallas, Atlanta, Detroit, etc. where rates are $0.75-$0.85/mile, far-out pings are losses. I still accept well over 90% of rides.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

DNicole said:


> Is your market a really wide market distance wise?
> 
> But if that's the case with you getting a timeout they aren't doing it consistently across the board to all drivers which isn't fair.


No, DFW is pretty steady. But when you end up in Fields of Corn and Cows, TX, you're pretty much screwed and gotta deadhead it back to civilization while offline.

Here's another question: why does Uber show me the pax rating if they intend for me to pick up every reasonably-distanced request? If I'm supposed to pick up every close rider, hide the rating. Don't dangle that in my face like I potentially have an option to decline. Uber is not fair.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DNicole said:


> But they aren't doing this to someone that rejected one its to people that are sitting there rejecting consistently.


How the flock do YOU PERSONALLY know what the heck Uber is doing? You don't.

If they don't want us to only take pings we think will be profitable why state that we are "free to accept, reject, or cancel any trip?"

That IMPLIES no retaliation, doesn't it?


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

ORT said:


> Uber in a way is right with this one


 I disagree. Uber says we are independent contractors. Independent contractors are free to decide which jobs they want to take. Uber only wants to classify us this way so they can avoid all of the rules that come with having employees, but they are unwilling to actually treat us with the freedoms that real independent contractors enjoy. If Uber wants to create rules and dictate the game, then they need to be an employer, not a "technology company" staffed by make believe independent contractors.

Uber simply misclassified themselves and came up with a new niche that the laws have not caught up with. This is the same way a designer drug manufacturer in China changes a molecule to side-step laws to keep their poison "legal".

It's no coincidence that Travis' first bankrupted and sued company, was designed to steal the copy write protected property of artists, under the shady umbrella of a "new technology".


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

What is your expense per mile Davetripd. Another newbee that has the magic formula.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> What is your expense per mile Davetripd. Another newbee that has the magic formula.


I drive very cheaply, under $0.10 a mile (gas is about .05-.06)


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> I drive very cheaply, under $0.10 a mile (gas is about .05-.06)


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

ORT said:


>


You think that's wrong? I thought I was overestimating.


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## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> I'm "pro Uber" as in I'm glad it exists but I'm also not singing it's praises or thinking I can lead a comfortable, worry free lifestyle driving (mostly) drunks around town in a $3000 car. When I refer people I definitely tell them not to quit their day job. I know I'm new to this forum but there is a lot of bitterness and entitlement and if you disagree you're a ****ing moron loser cock sucking asshole baby killing terrorist shill.
> 
> Anywho, yeah there shouldn't be any punitive measures taken if your acceptance rate is 90% or even 70 but I got the impression that people feel like they should be able to cancel as much and as often with no repercussions and that passengers are the enemy.
> 
> In brighter news I just caught the tail end of NPR saying that Seattle drivers can unionize. Not sure where that's going to lead or even if it will spread to less liberal states or traditionally union friendly areas like the north east.


Sorry, I don't mean to come off aggressively, man. There is a lot of resentment against Uber here. But I respect your stance and I'll always be civil. Having a range of opinions is cool and healthy for a community like this.

Agreed. Uber should retain the right to keep their service clean from Cherry Pickers who hurt pax and is good people out there. It just needs to be evenly and fairly enforced.

It'll be interesting to see Uber unions and how the big unions like AFL-CIO incorporate them. I'm grabbing my popcorn!


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> There is a lot of resentment against Uber here.


Yeah there is  but many points are valid and hopefully regulation catches up with the industry. I think what bothers me more (and not saying you're guilty, just in general) is the bashing of other drivers as idiots. Yes we are competing but we're also kinda on the same team here.

This site seems like the only place organizing and new members are easily off put by the flaming, especially if they aren't accustomed to the reddit style trolling common on message boards.

Ford announced they are getting into the ride sharing game. We are consumers [definitely not employees right ;-)] of Uber leads and more companies fighting over us is ultimately a good thing for us. At least I hope that's more than wishful thinking, I haven't been as around long enough to be as jaded and disillusioned as most around here haha.


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## DNicole (Nov 28, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How the flock do YOU PERSONALLY know what the heck Uber is doing? You don't.
> 
> If they don't want us to only take pings we think will be profitable why state that we are "free to accept, reject, or cancel any trip?"
> 
> That IMPLIES no retaliation, doesn't it?


You're free to do so - but they're free to discontinue doing business with you as well. Simply put.

If you dont like their system no one is stopping you from creating your own app


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> You think that's wrong? I thought I was overestimating.


Absolutely not possible to drive for 10 cents a mile unless you have an endless stream of FREE cars that you can throw away when anything goes wrong and be able to switch the plates for free.


----------



## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Absolutely not possible to drive for 10 cents a mile unless you have an endless stream of FREE cars that you can throw away when anything goes wrong and be able to switch the plates for free.


I drive a 2001 Civic with 171k. It has a new ****** and tires that I bought before even thinking about Uber. I'm planning on putting about 50k on it over the year and a half - 2years while I learn a programming language and switch careers. That may drop the value of the car $500? $1000 max? There's not much room for depreciation.


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Dave, 
Good luck with your studies. You're obviously smart enough to handle basic math. There's no need to prove to anyone here if Uber works for you or not. 

Make a little beer money, pay a bill or two. You've got an end game that has nothing to do with Uber....Rock on.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Dave,
> Good luck with your studies. You're obviously smart enough to handle basic math. There's no need to prove to anyone here if Uber works for you or not.
> 
> Make a little beer money, pay a bill or two. You've got an end game that has nothing to do with Uber....Rock on.


A positive comment, it's like spotting the white whale ☺ thanks. I'm actually looking for a little more than beer money but it's the flexibility that's key.

I'm buying another car anyway and I'm going to make sure it meets the select or black requirements for at least 2 years, that obviously changes the equation. Still planning on beating on the civic for a majority of the work and using the new car when I'm guaranteed the higher rate (at least as close to a guarantee as possible in this business). Thanks for the encouragement, this forum has been a good source of information.


----------



## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

less than .10 a mile. Are you crazy. You can't even drive a Prius for less than .10 a mile. Uber on my friend but you are either ignorant about your expenses or you just don't want to admit to yourself your real costs. There is no car that is maintained that you can run for under .10.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> less than .10 a mile. Are you crazy. You can't even drive a Prius for less than .10 a mile. Uber on my friend but you are either ignorant about your expenses or you just don't want to admit to yourself your real costs. There is no car that is maintained that you can run for under .10.


OK I'll bite, what are these expenses you're sure I have?


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## once111 (Dec 12, 2015)

Ubernice said:


> This is unfair since we are IC we can decide which Ping to take and which not


You nailed it on the head. As independent contractors you can take the pings or not, but as the entity hiring the contractor, they can choose to use a difficult contractor or not.

If you paid a contractor to build a house and they decided not to install half the window you wanted, because it was more trouble than it was worth, do you thing you would allow them to finish the job? Not only would you "deactivate" them, you would sue them for a breach of contract. While you're not getting sued for your violation of the agreement to take 80% of rides, they are right to either limit their use of you or quit using you altogether.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

once111 said:


> You nailed it on the head. As independent contractors you can take the pings or not, but as the entity hiring the contractor, they can choose to use a difficult contractor or not.
> 
> If you paid a contractor to build a house and they decided not to install half the window you wanted, because it was more trouble than it was worth, do you thing you would allow them to finish the job? Not only would you "deactivate" them, you would sue them for a breach of contract. While you're not getting sued for your violation of the agreement to take 80% of rides, they are right to either limit their use of you or quit using you altogether.


Show me where in the contract it states 80%.

In your example the builder is told it is up to him how many windows to put in and then once he starts told it must be more than 10 and a certain size or he's history.


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## Ubernice (Nov 6, 2015)

once111 said:


> You nailed it on the head. As independent contractors you can take the pings or not, but as the entity hiring the contractor, they can choose to use a difficult contractor or not.
> 
> If you paid a contractor to build a house and they decided not to install half the window you wanted, because it was more trouble than it was worth, do you thing you would allow them to finish the job? Not only would you "deactivate" them, you would sue them for a breach of contract. While you're not getting sued for your violation of the agreement to take 80% of rides, they are right to either limit their use of you or quit using you altogether.


Thanks for your opinion


----------



## FlDriver (Oct 16, 2015)

UberMeansSuper said:


> Okay, Uber scientist, can you explain it for me?


Here you go: if you ignore three pings in a row, it would be logical to think you're away from your phone or don't want pings at all, maybe don't realize you're online, so the software will start sending them to people who accept them.

If I call Pizza Hut to order a pizza, and they don't answer the phone, how many times should I try calling again before I just decide to order from another place?


----------



## UberMeansSuper (Aug 3, 2015)

FlDriver said:


> Here you go: if you ignore three pings in a row, it would be logical to think you're away from your phone or don't want pings at all, maybe don't realize you're online, so the software will start sending them to people who accept them.
> 
> If I call Pizza Hut to order a pizza, and they don't answer the phone, how many times should I try calling again before I just decide to order from another place?


Yeahhhhh... that part I get.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

once111 said:


> You nailed it on the head. As independent contractors you can take the pings or not, but as the entity hiring the contractor, they can choose to use a difficult contractor or not.
> 
> If you paid a contractor to build a house and they decided not to install half the window you wanted, because it was more trouble than it was worth, do you thing you would allow them to finish the job? Not only would you "deactivate" them, you would sue them for a breach of contract. While you're not getting sued for your violation of the agreement to take 80% of rides, they are right to either limit their use of you or quit using you altogether.


You are making claims that are NOT in the Uber/driver contract, which makes me wonder if you have even read it at all.


----------



## once111 (Dec 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Show me where in the contract it states 80%.





UberHammer said:


> You are making claims that are NOT in the Uber/driver contract, which makes me wonder if you have even read it at all.


80% is not in the contract, but I have seen that number thrown around, sorry I mentioned a wrong detail. Let's throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact of the matter is you agreed to an unspecified percentage of acceptance, and not living up to this acceptance level is grounds for deactivation.

From the Dec 11th Agreement, Paragraph 2.5.2:

_Additionally, you acknowledge that your repeated failure to accept User requests for Transportation Services while you are logged in to the Driver App creates a negative experience for Users of Uber's mobile application. If you do not wish to accept User requests for Transportation Services for a period of time, you agree that you will log off of the Driver App._

So by the contract, if you refuse 1% of your requests, you could be deactivated. Obviously 1% is absurd, but legally it can be what ever they want. I get the feeling reading these boards that a lot of the complainers about unfair labor practices and minimum wages don't understand the nature of being a contractor. Why would you continue to use a contractor that consistently falls short of the expectations you have set out for them. You wouldn't, you would find another who will provide the level of service you are asking for. I am not going to continue to hire a lawn trimming service that refuses to cut my grass because it's 95 degrees that week of the summer. And when they come to get more work after the temperature is back down, why would I give them the job back after they have proven that they are not reliable.

We do not have to accept trips. We can work when we want. But by the agreement if you are not ready/willing to accept most trips, don't go online. Those that are trying to game the system, and only want to accept what is lucrative or easy, are showing themselves to be unreliable to Uber's need to match riders and drivers. If you want guarantees, find a place that will hire you as an employee.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> In your example the builder is told it is up to him how many windows to put in and then once he starts told it must be more than 10 and a certain size or he's history.


Who in the world would leave it up to a builder to decide how many? If you have a blueprint for 10 windows and they decide to build 5, it's a plain and simple breach of contract.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

POMilton said:


> Less liability, less headache, more profit and more appreciation from customers...HA!


You'd be surprised how many customers you can add through buber


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

once111 said:


> 80% is not in the contract, but I have seen that number thrown around, sorry I mentioned a wrong detail. Let's throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact of the matter is you agreed to an unspecified percentage of acceptance, and not living up to this acceptance level is grounds for deactivation.
> 
> From the Dec 11th Agreement, Paragraph 2.5.2:
> 
> ...


Drivers who accepted the contract have NOT agreed to an unspecified percentage of acceptance. What they did by accepting the contract is acknowledge that repeated failure to accept User requests creates a negative experience for users. No driver is denying that doing it creates a negative experience for users. Acknowledging that it is true does not create any further contractual obligation on behalf of the driver. All the contract calls for from the driver on this issue is that they acknowledge that it creates the negative experience, nothing more. You however are claiming that it calls for a lot more, but it doesn't.

The contract goes on to establish that the driver agrees to log off if they do not wish to accept requests. That's perfectly reasonable... based on the assumption the driver has no intent to accept any request. However, if the driver only wishes to accept the best 1% of the requests he sees, then he wishes to accept requests, and is not obligated to log off. By accepting the contract, drivers have only agreed to log off when they don't want any requests at all.

Again, you typed a lot of words in your response, but they are based assumptions you think are in the contract, yet are not.


----------



## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

SECOTIME said:


> You mean that 19 year old pimply faced virgin they keep in the basement?


That's her


----------



## once111 (Dec 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Drivers who accepted the contract have NOT agreed to an unspecified percentage of acceptance. What they did by accepting the contract is acknowledge that repeated failure to accept User requests creates a negative experience for users. No driver is denying that doing it creates a negative experience for users. Acknowledging that it is true does not create any further contractual obligation on behalf of the driver. All the contract calls for from the driver on this issue is that they acknowledge that it creates the negative experience, nothing more. You however are claiming that it calls for a lot more, but it doesn't.


It seems you are as unfamiliar with the agreement as you claim I was. The part of paragraph 2.5.2 that I pasted immediately followed this sentence, as part of the same paragraph.

If you do not increase your average rating above the Minimum Average Rating within the time period allowed (if any), Company reserves the right to deactivate your access to the Driver App and the Uber Services.

So, if you don't get high enough ratings, we can deactivate you. Additionally you acknowledge that repeated failure to accept makes our customers unhappy. I am sure they put the comment about accepting rides in the same paragraph as deactivation, to inform you of another random tidbit of information. Based on paragraph 2.5.2, any court in the land would look at both low ratings and low acceptance as valid reasons for deactivation.

And let's not forget that the agreement doesn't specify the rating you must have, only that it will be determined by the company for that territory. That is just like you not knowing the threshold for deactivation due to repeated failure to accept. Uber can adjust those numbers any time they want, both ratings and acceptance. That is the danger of NOT having it specified in the contract, but linked to company policies that can change without the need for your acceptance. Legally, they can deactivate you for not accepting two trips or having anything below a 5.00 rating. I am not saying it is fair or realistic, but it would be legal. Obviously Uber would never deactivate at such a high threshold, but there are numbers somewhere that you may or may not see, but they can be used against you. I was reading a post a few minutes ago about someone who got deactivated for declining too many trips.



UberHammer said:


> However, if the driver only wishes to accept the best 1% of the requests he sees, then he wishes to accept requests, and is not obligated to log off. By accepting the contract, drivers have only agreed to log off when they don't want any requests at all.
> 
> Again, you typed a lot of words in your response, but they are based assumptions you think are in the contract, yet are not.


Wow! Talk about show it to me in the contract. What paragraph of the agreement says you can take just the best requests you see and leave the bad ones? Tomorrow I need to go by the Uber offices downtown. I'll ask bout your 1% theory. Sounds like conjecture to me.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

FlDriver said:


> Here you go: if you ignore three pings in a row, it would be logical to think you're away from your phone or don't want pings at all, maybe don't realize you're online, so the software will start sending them to people who accept them.
> 
> If I call Pizza Hut to order a pizza, and they don't answer the phone, how many times should I try calling again before I just decide to order from another place?


Well that just means that there should be a way to reject the ping instead of having to ignore or ACRO it.

Putting in rating or distance/ETA/direction filters would also solve that problem. Then if you DID forget to log out it would be perfectly reasonable to assume you're not ready to take calls when you ignore a couple in a row.


----------



## once111 (Dec 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Well that just means that there should be a way to reject the ping instead of having to ignore or ACRO it.


ACRO?



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Putting in rating or distance/ETA/direction filters would also solve that problem. Then if you DID forget to log out it would be perfectly reasonable to assume you're not ready to take calls when you ignore a couple in a row.


The other night, Uber was reaching out from the airport, but due to not having the necessary permits I could not accept. I'd go offline after letting one go and move around, but one time I know it kicked me offline after letting one go, I didn't have to go offline manually. Maybe the new update kicks you offline after a few missed pings, in case your online and away from your phone.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> You have every right to turn down those pings and it probably makes sense to do so within reason. Uber also has every right to turn off drivers who cherry pick rides.


I take all trips, even trips that are 30+ mins away; however, I'm not p/u trips that are 15+ mins away on the other side of rush hour traffic. I never have "cherry picked" rides; however, every time I have accepted a ping during rush hour the pax canceled on me when I was 5 minutes away from them (after driving 10+ minutes to p/u ... and this is after I had already text or called pax to have them confirm that my ETA was 15+ minutes. *so now, unless it's a Lux surge during rush hour, I don't drive across town to p/u pax during rush hour ... especially when there normally are more than a few trips in my staged zone to keep me busy


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

once111 said:


> Uber was reaching out from the airport, but due to not having the necessary permits I could not accept.


Uber developers don't seem to be the sharpest tool in the drawer; or at least there doesn't seem to be a strategist on the development team. As a technology strategist (day job), I'd think that Uber would want to prevent your profile from being assigned airport trips (since legally you can't p/u at airport); a simple logical IFTTT parameter can be added to the app that prevented the app from pinging drivers that were not authorized to p/u in certain locations ... this would provide a far better experience for the rider and far less frustration for the drivers.

Silly me ... I used the word "logical" referring to Uber ... an improbable process or conclusion


----------



## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

DNicole said:


> I've never had a ping be more than 15 minutes away. So I'm not sure what market where 25 is normal cause from my house if there isn't someone within 15 minutes I get told no uberx available. But normally if I get one that's 15 away from Ubers standpoint I can get there in 10 and normally they're driving downtown which means it's a long fare in my city.


I regularly get & accept trips that are 30 minutes away; farthest I've driven to p/u pax is 42 minutes ... I've only gotten the short end of the stick 5 times for making the 30+ minute trip to p/u pax ... as most of my 30+ min pax are heading to the airport, which is generally a $80+ trip so it works out. However, the only time I reject the long distance pings is during rush hour ... as 99% of the pings have canceled when I had nearly arrived at the p/u location ... and I always text/call pax on long distance pings to confirm my ETA


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## BentleyK9 (Oct 12, 2015)

Take every ping, collect the fare... move on. How f'king simple can it be...?


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Davetripd said:


> I drive a 2001 Civic with 171k. It has a new ****** and tires that I bought before even thinking about Uber. I'm planning on putting about 50k on it over the year and a half - 2years while I learn a programming language and switch careers. That may drop the value of the car $500? $1000 max? There's not much room for depreciation.


Very interesting, most regions they won't let people drive a 14 year old car. So yes, you might actually be one of those rare exceptions, a newbie who actually has a handle on this.

So lets assume you have a 1K drop in the price of the car from the 50K miles you put on. 2 cents a mile for depreciation, 6 cents a mile for gas, 1 cent a mile for tires, 1 cent a mile for oil changes. That's your 10 cents. If you need wipers, new starter, ..... it's on you. Also, are you reporting mileage to insurance company? So you are running at 10 cents plus a little bit and assuming a little risk like we all do, not bad! That's a great car to be driving for this, nice that you can do it.

As far as doing select, check with drivers in your area before you consider it. Here in RDU there is not a lot of select business, so I don't get a lot of volume. My costs including depreciation on the car are about 39 cents and because of the low volume I don't get a lot of back to back trips so I'm basically running 55% paid miles to 45% dead miles.

Good luck and happy programming!!


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

once111 said:


> It seems you are as unfamiliar with the agreement as you claim I was. The part of paragraph 2.5.2 that I pasted immediately followed this sentence, as part of the same paragraph.
> 
> If you do not increase your average rating above the Minimum Average Rating within the time period allowed (if any), Company reserves the right to deactivate your access to the Driver App and the Uber Services.
> 
> So, if you don't get high enough ratings, we can deactivate you.


Pardon me for not knowing more about you. But does this indicate you work for Uber?



> Additionally you acknowledge that repeated failure to accept makes our customers unhappy. I am sure they put the comment about accepting rides in the same paragraph as deactivation, to inform you of another random tidbit of information. Based on paragraph 2.5.2, any court in the land would look at both low ratings and low acceptance as valid reasons for deactivation.
> 
> And let's not forget that the agreement doesn't specify the rating you must have, only that it will be determined by the company for that territory. That is just like you not knowing the threshold for deactivation due to repeated failure to accept. Uber can adjust those numbers any time they want, both ratings and acceptance. That is the danger of NOT having it specified in the contract, but linked to company policies that can change without the need for your acceptance. Legally, they can deactivate you for not accepting two trips or having anything below a 5.00 rating. I am not saying it is fair or realistic, but it would be legal. Obviously Uber would never deactivate at such a high threshold, but there are numbers somewhere that you may or may not see, but they can be used against you. I was reading a post a few minutes ago about someone who got deactivated for declining too many trips.


Yes it's true that section 2.5.2 establishes that Uber can deactivate a driver based on the driver's average rating compared to the Minimum Average Rating.

*Unfortunately for your argument section 2.5.2 has absolutely nothing to do with a driver's acceptance rate.* Section 2.5, including sections 2.5.1, 2.5.2, and 2.5.3 is about the user feedback ratings. That section defines what the user feedback rating is, how it's determined, what it needs to be, and what can result if it fails to be high enough.

There is no where in the contract that defines what an acceptance rate is , how it's determined, what it needs to be and what can result if it fails to be high enough. IT'S NOT IN THE CONTRACT!!!! You keep assuming it is, but it's not there! All that exists in the contract about acceptance is in section 2.5.2 where the driver acknowledges that repeated non-acceptance creates a negative user experience. The driver has no additional contractual obligation beyond acknowledging that to be true. As long as the driver acknowledges it, the contract states that the driver retains the option to accept, decline or ignore requests without being subject to any Uber policy on acceptance, declines and/or ignores. This is shown in detail below. But before I move on, it's needs to be said to you again.... Taking things that are in the contract and saying they apply to other things not defined in the contract is piss poor logic.



> Wow! Talk about show it to me in the contract. What paragraph of the agreement says you can take just the best requests you see and leave the bad ones?


It's in section 2.4, right before the section 2.5 that you misapplied to acceptance rates. Section 2.4 says:

_You retain the option, via the Driver App, to attempt to accept or to decline or ignore a User's request for Transportation Services via the Uber Services, or to cancel an accepted request for Transportation Services via the Driver App, subject to Company's then current cancellation policies._

As the section above clearly states driver cancels are subject to Uber's current cancellation policies. Driver accepts however are NOT subject to any acceptance policies. If they were, it would be stated clearly right in this section where where cancels are established as being subject to cancellation polices. Likewise for declines and ignores. Driver declines are NOT subject to any decline policies. Driver ignores are NOT subject to any ignore policies. Again, when it comes to a driver's acceptance rate, the contract says nothing about it other than requiring the driver to acknowledge that repeated non-acceptance results in a negative user experience.

There is a very significant reason why Uber's lawyers did not write into the contract that drivers are subject to an acceptance rate policy. If the contract did, it would establish the time that the driver is online and waiting for a request as belonging to Uber. If Uber owns that drivers time, then the driver is legally entitled to compensation for that time that now belongs to Uber. In order for that driver's time to be owned by the driver, and thus not entitled to compensation from Uber, the driver must be able to decline any request based on the driver's own volition and NOT Uber's policies. It's intentional on Uber's part to not establish an acceptance rate in the contract.

Again you are making assumptions that things are in the contract when they are not.



> Tomorrow I need to go by the Uber offices downtown. I'll ask bout your 1% theory. Sounds like conjecture to me.


How Uber operates day to day and what actually exists in the Uber/Driver contract are not the same. Uber ignores the contractual law established in the contract they wrote just as much as they ignore legislated laws written by states and municipalities. Uber will do whatever it wants despite the law, even despite they themselves being the source of the law they are spiting.


----------



## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Very interesting, most regions they won't let people drive a 14 year old car. So yes, you might actually be one of those rare exceptions, a newbie who actually has a handle on this.
> 
> So lets assume you have a 1K drop in the price of the car from the 50K miles you put on. 2 cents a mile for depreciation, 6 cents a mile for gas, 1 cent a mile for tires, 1 cent a mile for oil changes. That's your 10 cents. If you need wipers, new starter, ..... it's on you. Also, are you reporting mileage to insurance company? So you are running at 10 cents plus a little bit and assuming a little risk like we all do, not bad! That's a great car to be driving for this, nice that you can do it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to think about it instead of just getting all angsty and saying $0.10 isn't possible  thankfully the amount of time I've been driving also doesn't correlate to my ability to do math.

I understand people taking pride in their cars but when it comes to the bottom line, $1.10 (or less in some areas) doesn't leave much wiggle room. I would advise people to get a car with the lowest possible operating costs if they want to make money and check their pride at the door. I feel terrible for the (literally) hundreds of people I see every day at the airport that whose cars still have dealer tags, cost $35k, and qualify for only UBERX.

I'm buying an suv type car anyway. Set a budget of $15k, and it's going to be Uber select ready (bonus for Uber xl) , and drivable for 2 years. Going to have it paid off in 2 years and only drive it when I'm guaranteed (or very highly likely anyways) to get select fares.

Managed to get about $40 an hour for my last 2 times driving UberX AFTER expenses so I'm all pumped up on Uber right now and hope I can keep it going by being smart and working the system to maximum Advantage.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

bestpals said:


> What is NaN minutes????


POST # 5/bestpals: MY question, exactly!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

ATL2SD said:


> Shid, that's a fact!


POST # 13/ATL2SD: Fo'shizzle shidizzle!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

SECOTIME said:


> Uninstall the app and sell weed


POST # 3/SECOTIME: MAJOR CHORTLE!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Trebor said:


> progammer was durnk


POST #:26/Trebor: Goo Ole Boy wid'da
Suthin'
ACK-cent say'n "Naaaaaaaaahn", s'all.

Bison: Chillax!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> I disagree. Uber says we are independent contractors. Independent contractors are free to decide which jobs they want to take. Uber only wants to classify us this way so they can avoid all of the rules that come with having employees, but they are unwilling to actually treat us with the freedoms that real independent contractors enjoy. If Uber wants to create rules and dictate the game, then they need to be an employer, not a "technology company" staffed by make believe independent contractors.
> 
> Uber simply misclassified themselves and came up with a new niche that the laws have not caught up with. This is the same way a designer drug manufacturer in China changes a molecule to side-step laws to keep their poison "legal".
> 
> It's no coincidence that Travis' first bankrupted and sued company, was designed to steal the copy write protected property of artists, under the shady umbrella of a "new technology".


POST # 55/Realityshark: N O..S N A R K !
A L L .....S H A R K !

Bison: B-B-B-B-B-B-BOOYAH !!!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> You are making claims that are NOT in the Uber/driver contract, which makes me wonder if you have even read it at all.


POST # 74/UberHammer: "The Hammer"
has Spoken!
Respect #1 Notable UberHammer!

Bison: So, it is,written. So, it shall be done.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

james berry said:


> Take every ping, collect the fare... move on. How f'king simple can it be...?


POST # 85/james berry: ....Uh......No.
"simple-minded" !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Ziggy said:


> Uber developers don't seem to be the sharpest tool in the drawer; or at least there doesn't seem to be a strategist on the development team. As a technology strategist (day job), I'd think that Uber would want to prevent your profile from being assigned airport trips (since legally you can't p/u at airport); a simple logical IFTTT parameter can be added to the app that prevented the app from pinging drivers that were not authorized to p/u in certain locations ... this would provide a far better experience for the rider and far less frustration for the drivers.
> 
> Silly me ... I used the word "logical" referring to Uber ... an improbable process or conclusion


POST #:83/Ziggy: Nor are they the
"Coldest Beer in the 'Fridge"!
Possibly "1 short of a 6-Pk."

Bison: "Threadworthy"? Hmmmm....
☆ ☆ ☆"Not hardly...but, Most Likely!"


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

once111 said:


> ACRO?
> 
> The other night, Uber was reaching out from the airport, but due to not having the necessary permits I could not accept. I'd go offline after letting one go and move around, but one time I know it kicked me offline after letting one go, I didn't have to go offline manually. Maybe the new update kicks you offline after a few missed pings, in case your online and away from your phone.


POST # 81/once111: Acro.............nym for
A.....ccept
C.....ancel
R.....eason
O.....ther
Welcome to UP.Net Forums!

Mentoring Bison: Acronyms: Especialite
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆du Maison Haberdasher.


----------



## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

ORT said:


> Uber in a way is right with this one "and you would do the same thing if you where in their shoes", and I hate this corporation like everyone else, if you don't want to use the app then just turn it off, no one is forcing you to turn it on, and do whatever you please with it "you are running a business, and it's pretty unprofessional by constantly rejecting dispatches, if you where a limo company that driver would be getting the boot", it's still Uber's app and you signed an agreement "did you read it" to use it as instructed or otherwise just keep it off. It's not so hard to comprehend.
> You all hate uber but at the same time like to use their service for your needs, it can't be only good for you when it's convenient.


So if "Uber is in the right", is there a way to opt out of their "stacked ping" policy? Where you can get a ping originating from the destination of your current ride?

All of the errors listed below negatively impact your acceptance rating, which will eventually go to pot by NO fault of your own.

Stacked ping - if you ever think about calling it a day after the current rider... think again because if you deny it, it will go against your acceptance rating. (happened to me, late at night after too many hours driving)

Stacked ping - be sure to start wearing Depends while driving. Just in case you think you have the right to stop and take a leak after you drop off your PAX. How dare you??? (happened to me. not the Depends thing but needing to make a pit stop after a ride. LOL)

Stacked ping - be sure if your PAX enters the wrong destination, it is corrected immediately. Or you might get that stacked ping from the wrong location. (happened to me)

Stacked ping - if the PAX wants you to make a detour to pick up a friend, make sure that detour is NOT in the app destination....
Stacked ping - if the PAX wants you to wait a few minutes outside their destination, so you can bring them back home (and you accept), make sure you add the new destination in the app or you might get a stacked ping from that same location.
System error - has anyone ever received a ping immediately AFTER you logged off? And you couldn't do anything about it? (happens to me quite frequently)
As I mentioned, if any of these errors occur, your acceptance rating will go to pot by NO fault of your own.
No need to notify Uber of these because when I did, they didn't give a shit!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I hear you Scott.Sul can be inconvenient but at least it seems like you are getting more efficient business. Question for you, have you gotten a warning from Uber about your acceptance rate? If not, I wouldn't worry. They will warn you well before they deactivate you unless your ratings suck. If you get a warning then try something like accepting the request and then just doing what you need to do. The pax will cancel and if they don't call them and tell them there's been a glitch in the system and they need to cancel you and rerequest because your app is locked up or something like that. As long as they cancel you are in the clear.


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## Expired Tablet (Dec 17, 2015)

Why would you go online, if u aren't accepting rides? Not 1 not 2, cancelling almost every request? What's going on dude!


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## David Pickett (Nov 2, 2015)

NAN is a floating point special value that can be substituted for calculations that go bad, like in an array of values, where some cells have solutions that are imaginary or divide by zero. The valid cells of the matrix get real values and the others get NAN. This is for parallel processing. It is not for individual calculations. Brought to you by the designers and developers that put history under help.


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## once111 (Dec 12, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 81/once111: Acro.............


Thank you


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## once111 (Dec 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Pardon me for not knowing more about you. But does this indicate you work for Uber?


Does your bad additude and misleading advice for new drivers indicate your secretly working for the Taxi Cab lobby?

It is clear to me that you are either mistaken or deliberately misleading drivers who don't know any better. Any driver that follows your advice to take one in one hundred requests will shortly find themselves not working for Uber. I talked to a lady at the Dallas office today, and she verified the acceptance threshold was 80%. Much like an earlier poster mentioned, that does not mean at 79% you are deactivated, but a combination of bad acceptance and bad ratings will get you in trouble with Uber.



UberHammer said:


> Driver ignores are NOT subject to any ignore policies.


Completely false.

My advice for new drivers like myself, be careful of advice from UberHammer.

My advice for UberHammer, get a lawyer to review your legal documents from now on.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

once111 said:


> Does your bad additude and misleading advice for new drivers indicate your secretly working for the Taxi Cab lobby?
> 
> It is clear to me that you are either mistaken or deliberately misleading drivers who don't know any better. Any driver that follows your advice to take one in one hundred requests will shortly find themselves not working for Uber. I talked to a lady at the Dallas office today, and she verified the acceptance threshold was 80%. Much like an earlier poster mentioned, that does not mean at 79% you are deactivated, but a combination of bad acceptance and bad ratings will get you in trouble with Uber.
> 
> ...


I'm NOT advising drivers to do what they are contractually allowed to do. As I've made clear, Uber IGNORES all law. Uber ignores legislated law. And Uber ignores contract law. Uber does a lot of things that they don't have the legal right to do. Uber will deactivate drivers for acceptance rate despite the fact that they don't have a legal right to do it. It's a shit company ran by an asshole.


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## Jack Marrero (Oct 24, 2015)

bestpals said:


> What is NaN minutes????


If you've been in Georgia or any other southern states, then, you should know that NaN, means NiNe.


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## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

once111 said:


> You nailed it on the head. As independent contractors you can take the pings or not, but as the entity hiring the contractor, they can choose to use a difficult contractor or not.
> 
> If you paid a contractor to build a house and they decided not to install half the window you wanted, because it was more trouble than it was worth, do you thing you would allow them to finish the job? Not only would you "deactivate" them, you would sue them for a breach of contract. While you're not getting sued for your violation of the agreement to take 80% of rides, they are right to either limit their use of you or quit using you altogether.


Do you think a contractor would drive to your house to change a light bulb for $2.40. He knows what the job is and how much it pays before accepting the bid. If he thinks it's worth his time and he can make a profit he accepts the job. If we were truly independent contractors we would know how much the job pays before having to accept it or set our own minimums.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

Disgusted driver I am right at .40 cents per mile also. My rates are UberX .75 UberFool .68. I drive one day a month to keep account active but can not make money at these rates. Ride share miles are harder on a car than regular driving. 60% of drivers quit after 16 months.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I hear you Scott.Sul can be inconvenient but at least it seems like you are getting more efficient business. Question for you, have you gotten a warning from Uber about your acceptance rate? If not, I wouldn't worry. They will warn you well before they deactivate you unless your ratings suck. If you get a warning then try something like accepting the request and then just doing what you need to do. The pax will cancel and if they don't call them and tell them there's been a glitch in the system and they need to cancel you and rerequest because your app is locked up or something like that. As long as they cancel you are in the clear.


Thanks DD, No, I haven't received an acceptance rate warning but when it was mentioned in a reply to one of my "support" emails, I did the math and realized there was NO WAY I ignored that many pings. I then began to look a bit more carefully on what could have contributed to that.
I plan to use your advice moving forward... accept and either call the PAX and tell them there might be a significant delay and to cancel, or request they re-ping due to a system glitch. Usually for me, once I get a ping my "many years of customer service" gene kicks in and I feel obligated to fulfill my commitment. It's one of my weaknesses.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> less than .10 a mile. Are you crazy. You can't even drive a Prius for less than .10 a mile. Uber on my friend but you are either ignorant about your expenses or you just don't want to admit to yourself your real costs. There is no car that is maintained that you can run for under .10.


Cost per mile isn't known until the last moment of service for the owner. In this case, he is UberX in a 2001 (not an option for me, when I started and still not in many markets).


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

Your looking at immediate cost. If you drive 50K miles and quit Ubeer and have to buy tires in a week I guess that is not an Uber expense. You take averages. Some happen before the avarage, some happen after.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

uberpa said:


> How to beat this one?
> View attachment 20286


Look, OP!!! We match!

Don't hate the playas people.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> I'm NOT advising drivers to do what they are contractually allowed to do. As I've made clear, Uber IGNORES all law. Uber ignores legislated law. And Uber ignores contract law. Uber does a lot of things that they don't have the legal right to do. Uber will deactivate drivers for acceptance rate despite the fact that they don't have a legal right to do it. It's a shit company ran by an asshole.


You mentioned "Uber IGNORES all law". This post leads me to believe you no longer drive for them but can you still provide some convincing examples supporting your very general, and all-encompassing accusation?

And why doesn't Uber have a right to deactivate (sever their relationship with) a person (sub-contractor) who agrees to drive for them (perform a service) but regularly refuses to provide that service deeming the work is too hard (or too far to drive)?


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## PapaDug (Apr 29, 2015)

It is 80 percent. You can figure it yourself by going to your daily earnings and looking at what the ride paid and what they paid you, take the ride amount times .80 and you have what you earned, give or take a penny. 
Recently I received an email from Uber saying current drivers will maintain a 20% charge by Uber, new drivers as of November 2015 will have 25% deducted. Makes one wonder if they will be searching out newer drivers even if a veteran driver is closer. More profit for über .


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## David Pickett (Nov 2, 2015)

Actually, the history under help is not as nice, but history under earnings is back already! I wish I could see text addresses on the web, for copy and paste to Google Maps, spreadsheet where I keep my taxable income calculation:


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

That is not what you earned it is what you collected. What about your expenses. Gas, oil changes, car wahes, timimg belt, water pump, plugs. All maint and depreciation of your vehicle is your expenses.

What you collect - maint (depreciation) = profit.

This is a business. Do you know what it costs you to drive per mile. Most don't have a clue.


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## the_professor (Oct 6, 2015)

uberpa said:


> How to beat this one?
> View attachment 20286


Just got this message last night! Was cherrypicking XL rides. Logged back in after 5 minutes and got lucky with an XL ping on a 1.5x surge. And I got my very first tip from an Uber passenger (three whole dollars!!!!!!). OMFG!!!!!


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> Your looking at immediate cost. If you drive 50K miles and quit Ubeer and have to buy tires in a week I guess that is not an Uber expense. You take averages. Some happen before the avarage, some happen after.


If you are referring to me not accounting for tires with my expenses being $0.10 a mile I'll happily account for the half cent a mile new tires would cost if both my car and my patience last 50,000 miles driving for Uber.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

Dave you left out more than just tires. All I am saying is run it like a business. Know what it costs you to drive. How do you know when to stop driving if you don't have the correcy per mile expense. No business runs without knowing its REAL expenses.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Scott.Sul said:


> You mentioned "Uber IGNORES all law". This post leads me to believe you no longer drive for them but can you still provide some convincing examples supporting your very general, and all-encompassing accusation?


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=uber ignores laws



> And why doesn't Uber have a right to deactivate (sever their relationship with) a person (sub-contractor) who agrees to drive for them (perform a service) but regularly refuses to provide that service deeming the work is too hard (or too far to drive)?


If that right is not established in legislation or in contract, then they don't have that as a legal right. They could claim they have that right from a non-legal source, but non-legal sources of rights never hold up in a court of law.


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## David Pickett (Nov 2, 2015)

The cost of gas, tires, maintenance, depreciation is roller up in the federal 57.5 cent rate, which my spreadsheet reflects, for all Uber-related business miles I or Uber contemporaneously record. All you need to do is beat that federal rate. Personally, I do not add in got lost miles, bad route miles, just Google Map miles from where I was to pickup, and drop off to where I next get pinged. Meanwhile, it is a tax shelter for my income, $93.95 so far in 6+ weeks. I am trying to build up Uber in Vineland, so it is a quite common startup cost.


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## Obrx drvr (Aug 22, 2014)

Use your timeout and turn on Lyft. You keep making money for yourself and Lyft. If you're lucky you get some tips from you Lyft riders. It's Christmas time. Uber are loosing turf in California for Lyft. The aim for both, UberX and Lyft, is to reduce the waiting time for the riders under 3 minutes. Since Uber has 160000 Uber drivers in California and if 10% of these drivers are on timeout for not accepting calls, mostly 10 minutes away from their locations or low rated riders, Uber loose 160000 minutes (16000X10mn) , which equal to 2666 hours of driving. If 50% of these hours go to Lyft, then it will have an advantage over Uber, since each of them wants to reduce the waiting time.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> Dave you left out more than just tires. All I am saying is run it like a business. Know what it costs you to drive. How do you know when to stop driving if you don't have the correcy per mile expense. No business runs without knowing its REAL expenses.


I keep being told this but no, I'm not leaving out more than tires. $0.10 a mile is reasonably what I pay to drive, including gas.


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

what year car do you drive. What make and model. What is your estimated miles per gallon. Not what the manufacturer says but when driving for Uber stop and go. how many miles are on the car and how many do you put on Ubering from the time you put on the app every day to the mileage you turn the app off. What does it cost you to replace your timimg belt/water pump and how often do you do it. some people maintain thier vehicles. some let them go to [email protected] Trying to judge if you have any knowledge about automotive care. 

I ued you as an example and it is not to belittle you but to make drivers aware that there expenses are more than gas an oil.


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

2001 Honda Civic, 170k miles. New transmission, new 80k or 60k tires. Exterior of car looks good at night, interior is well maintained. 30 MPG and i average $0.30 off per gallon so I'm typically paying $1.35/gallon.

I figured If I can get 50k miles on it and Uber for 1.5 - 2 years I shouldn't need much maintenance besides oil. Yes there is the chance that something will break but unless your car is brand new you run that risk with any vehicle and Honda's seem to do ok. Another 50k miles will drop the value $500 to $1000 tops, there isn't much room for depreciation.

Yeah it would be nice to drive a better car but I think about all the Uber drivers I see trashing their brand new UberX mobiles and am happy I'm not in the same boat. I can't think of a better UberX setup.

If I wasn't using this car for Uber it would be sitting around wasting insurance money until my girlfriends sister is old enough to drive.


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## Dts08 (Feb 25, 2015)

Uber seem to be always sending me pings ten minute back into an area I just left from, usually pulling me out of or while I am headed to a surge zone...who's going to accept a non surging ping while sitting in the middle of a surge zone..( some of which are suspect in theirselves )..and now they are sending the same pings that I didn't accept 2 to 3 times in a row...so I'm waiting on my warning..


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## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

Most are not as lucky as you that you can use such an old car. I can't believe they allow a 15 year old auto but good for you. Most states will not allow it. It's tough to get more than 250k out of a 4 cylinder engine. I still believe you will be hitting some big expenses with maintenance especially with all the miles on the vehicle. What are your rates in Denver.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Now uber throws the sh*t up even with 2 or 3 arcos!


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## Davetripd (Dec 14, 2015)

UberEddie2015 said:


> Most are not as lucky as you that you can use such an old car. I can't believe they allow a 15 year old auto but good for you. Most states will not allow it. It's tough to get more than 250k out of a 4 cylinder engine. I still believe you will be hitting some big expenses with maintenance especially with all the miles on the vehicle. What are your rates in Denver.


Yes, if those big expenses hit the civic I'm selling it but hopefully it lasts my projected 1-2 years I'm planning on driving for Uber. Have a couple "car guys" interested in buying it after finding it has a new transmission.

I'm planning on buying a new car in the next month or 2 anyway and will meet the Uber Select requirements for at least 2 years. That will change my expenses obviously.

In Denver X is $1.10 /$0.16 and select is double that.. 
. 
Excuse my ignorance but what does the number of cylinders have to do with the life of the car. For what it's worth most of the miles I'm putting on with Uber are highway miles.


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