# Paycheck Protection Program



## Bergie (Nov 22, 2017)

Anyone have any idea if we are eligible for this? It says starting April 10th,independent contractors and self-employed people can apply for forgivable loans for income and other expenses (car payment, insurance, etc). This seems separate from the expanded unemployment.

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf
Discuss.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

As an Uber driver, do you have employees? If not, this does not apply to you.


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## Bergie (Nov 22, 2017)

Why would it mention independent contractors and self-employed in the bill?


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

https://uberpeople.net/threads/sba-loans-and-grants-covid-19.390226/


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

I applied. Gave them my EIN#, application was accepted. 
I have an LLC, with one employee-me.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Self employed can apply for this. The money has to be 75% used for payroll. The other 25% can be used to pay rent etc. You can also apply for the other EIDL program which is different but still a government loan program.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Illini said:


> As an Uber driver, do you have employees? If not, this does not apply to you.


You are very wrong. As an Uber driver, you run a sole proprietor business and therefore can apply. There are no disqualifying questions on the ap.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

I applied a couple days ago as a Sole Prop. Included my 1040C, drivers license, and earnings statements from Uber and Lyft. Turnaround time is 5 days. It covers 2/15 - 6/30 I think. Assuming I'm approved I'll backpay myself writing checks for each week for the 8 week period the forgiveness allows. When and If UI goes through I'll use the funds from that to settle the balance since technically it's double dipping. 

I'm applying for everything to see what I can get first. Can't afford to wait. It is important to remember you need to deduct/repay loans if you take UI.


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

JaredJ said:


> It is important to remember you need to deduct/repay loans if you take UI.


Important to forget, you mean.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

JaredJ said:


> I applied a couple days ago as a Sole Prop. Included my 1040C, drivers license, and earnings statements from Uber and Lyft. Turnaround time is 5 days. It covers 2/15 - 6/30 I think. Assuming I'm approved I'll backpay myself writing checks for each week for the 8 week period the forgiveness allows. When and If UI goes through I'll use the funds from that to settle the balance since technically it's double dipping.
> 
> I'm applying for everything to see what I can get first. Can't afford to wait. It is important to remember you need to deduct/repay loans if you take UI.


What's the point of doing PPP and then also UI if you have to use the UI to repay the PPP?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Bergie said:


> Anyone have any idea if we are eligible for this? It says starting April 10th,independent contractors and self-employed people can apply for forgivable loans for income and other expenses (car payment, insurance, etc). This seems separate from the expanded unemployment.
> 
> https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf
> Discuss.


BANKS HAVE QUIT TAKING APPLICATIONS FOR THESE LOANS ALREADY.

WELLS FARGO WAS ONLY MAKING LOANS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS.
THEY QUIT TAKING APPLICATIONS A WEEK AGO.

THEY ALREADY HAVE DOUBLE THE APLICATIONS VERSES AVAILABLE FUNDS.

THAT SHIP SAILED WITHIN 3 DAYS.



TemptingFate said:


> Important to forget, you mean.


" Forgiveable Loans".


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> BANKS HAVE QUIT TAKING APPLICATIONS FOR THESE LOANS ALREADY.
> 
> WELLS FARGO WAS ONLY MAKING LOANS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS.
> THEY QUIT TAKING APPLICATIONS A WEEK AGO.
> ...


I applied direct thru SBA, and application was accepted.

Who the hell knows?

Government is an aircraft carrier that doesn't make 90degree turns.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Legally, sole proprietors and LLC members (owners) are not employees and thus do not draw a salary. But who knows what standard the SBA will apply.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Legally, sole proprietors and LLC members (owners) are not employees and thus do not draw a salary. But who knows what standard the SBA will apply.


You can actually be either of those things AND pay yourself a salary. It's about how you choose to do it. For my real business I have an LLC, but am not an "employee" with a W2, I just have the profits pass through. The way I've been doing it I would not qualify, but if I had paid myself a salary and issued myself a W2 I would be.


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

This is what life would be like every year if you idiots just voted for Bernie


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

IthurstwhenIP said:


> This is what life would be like every year if you idiots just voted for Bernie


LOL Are you ****ing serious, or trolling?

Socialism is always sweet when you first start stealing from the people that generate the wealth... But the endgame of anything beyond VERY modest amounts of welfare nonsense is ALWAYS Cuba, Venezuela, USSR, etc. You can only steal so much from the actual productive members of society before shit collapses.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Ballard_Driver said:


> You can actually be either of those things AND pay yourself a salary. It's about how you choose to do it. For my real business I have an LLC, but am not an "employee" with a W2, I just have the profits pass through. The way I've been doing it I would not qualify, but if I had paid myself a salary and issued myself a W2 I would be.


Usually not.

https://llc-made-easy.com/can-a-member-of-an-llc-receive-a-salary/
I mean yeah, you could create a single-member LLC, elect to be taxed as a corp, then file an S election so you aren't double-taxed, and then pay yourself a salary so you can collect regular unemployment when you lay yourself off (don't laugh, I had clients that did that every offseason), but in that case, why not just start with the S corp and skip the LLC step?

And you do not have that option for a sole proprietorship, which isn't a separate legal entity.

https://dinesentax.com/youre-sole-proprietor-theres-thing-salary-tax-purposes/


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Usually not.
> 
> https://llc-made-easy.com/can-a-member-of-an-llc-receive-a-salary/
> I mean yeah, you could create a single-member LLC, elect to be taxed as a corp, then file an S election so you aren't double-taxed, and then pay yourself a salary so you can collect regular unemployment when you lay yourself off (don't laugh, I had clients that did that every offseason), but in that case, why not just start with the S corp and skip the LLC step?
> ...


That's exactly what I meant with the LLC. There are reasons to choose to be an LLC over a corp. For instance the paperwork is less complex and reporting requirements in most states are lower. Corps have extra hoops to jump usually. It's a fine distinction, but there is one. I elect to treat it as a pass through entity, essentially as a partnership as there is a co-owner, but I could always change it if I want.

I was wrong on the sole proprietor thing. I thought you could pay yourself a W2 and also take remaining profits at the end of the year. I guess I was wrong. I haven't had an SP for a million years, and never wanted to do W2 anyway.

That said, in Washington state self employed people can opt into unemployment. Health insurance is obviously available to anybody. So I still stand by my general point that being an official employee is a horrible idea when one can work around the couple sticking points easily.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Ballard_Driver said:


> That's exactly what I meant with the LLC. There are reasons to choose to be an LLC over a corp. For instance the paperwork is less complex and reporting requirements in most states are lower. Corps have extra hoops to jump usually. It's a fine distinction, but there is one. I elect to treat it as a pass through entity, essentially as a partnership as there is a co-owner, but I could always change it if I want.


Not really, the paperwork is about the same (annual report listing registered agent, plus sometimes corporate officers, initially have to draft bylaws for corp and operating agreement for LLC), and LLCs have higher annual filing fees than corps in some states. But my point is if you've elected for your LLC to be treated as a pass-through (as the vast majority do), you can't pay yourself a salary. You get a member draw instead, which is not wages.

edit: I should add you can get a "guaranteed payment" as an LLC member, but that's a rather silly thing to do in a single-member LLC. It is commonly done in multi-member LLCs where some members actively work in the business in order to allocate profits to those members in respect of their work before the overall profit-sharing allocation.

Here is a good explanation:

https://www.bjornsonlaw.com/limited...n-a-limited-liability-company-or-partnership/
It's still not wages though, and no W-2 is issued, it's just a separately stated item on the member's Schedule K-1.

The important distinction between draws, guaranteed payments, and wages, is that the former items aren't subject to payroll taxes, because they aren't wages. The members will pay self-employment tax on their profit share, of course, but that's only equivalent to FICA on wages--there is no unemployment tax assessed on member profits, which is why traditionally unemployment benefits would not be available to LLC members.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

IthurstwhenIP said:


> This is what life would be like every year if you idiots just voted for Bernie


I know right? I love free stuff. Now he's out of the race so it looks like I'll have to continue working  
.
.
.
.
.
.
And yes, I'm laying the sarcasm on pretty thick.


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## BuberDriver (Feb 2, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> BANKS HAVE QUIT TAKING APPLICATIONS FOR THESE LOANS ALREADY.
> 
> WELLS FARGO WAS ONLY MAKING LOANS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS.
> THEY QUIT TAKING APPLICATIONS A WEEK AGO.
> ...


How about Main St. banks...wells fargo is only 1 bank, there are thousands in the US


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

BuberDriver said:


> How about Main St. banks...wells fargo is only 1 bank, there are thousands in the US


Think
About
Just how many Banks
Will be Insolvent after this !

Loans will be defaulting Nation wide.

Bankrupt Banks.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

This morning, Democrat Chuck Schumer blocked the Senate from adding $250 Billion to the PPP/EIDL fund, to replenish it. The first $50 Billion is almost gone.

Source: https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/senate-dems-block-250-billion-for-coronavirus-small-business-loans/


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## JustTreatMeFair (Nov 28, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> I applied direct thru SBA, and application was accepted.
> 
> Who the hell knows?


The SBA guarantees loans. They do not directly make those loans. Their computer system takes your application and feeds it out to lending institutions that apply the SBA guidelines and actually make the loans.

There currently are more applications than loans the Government has set aside enough money to guarantee but they are working to expand it. Provided people make good on the loans and pay them off the only money the government is out is for the portions forgiven and loans that default.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

JustTreatMeFair said:


> The SBA guarantees loans. They do not directly make those loans. Their computer system takes your application and feeds it out to lending institutions that apply the SBA guidelines and actually make the loans.
> 
> There currently are more applications than loans the Government has set aside enough money to guarantee but they are working to expand it. Provided people make good on the loans and pay them off the only money the government is out is for the portions forgiven and loans that default.


Correct.
And, after applying there is nothing you can do but wait for SBA to contact your bank, which is listed in the application.


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## JustTreatMeFair (Nov 28, 2017)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Legally, sole proprietors and LLC members (owners) are not employees and thus do not draw a salary.


True. But a standard tactic often employed that negates the need for drawing a salary is for the LLC to actually purchase and own many of the things a person might spend his salary on. The house he lives in with the attached office he uses. The car he drives. Perhaps he receives a monthly stipend to entertain clients with. His domestic partner that files her own taxes and is primarily a stay at home mom might receive a salary to provide day care and tutoring for his children. She is, after all, in a much lower tax bracket than he is. He's home now and perhaps she draws UI for a while or the company takes the PPP to cover it. His adult age kids perhaps are paid for some menial task they perform. The money funneled to them could be recouped while they draw unemployment.

Lot's of flexibility exists


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

JustTreatMeFair said:


> True. But a standard tactic often employed that negates the need for drawing a salary is for the LLC to actually purchase and own many of the things a person might spend his salary on. The house he lives in with the attached office he uses. The car he drives. Perhaps he receives a monthly stipend to entertain clients with. His domestic partner that files her own taxes and is primarily a stay at home mom might receive a salary to provide day care and tutoring for his children. She is, after all, in a much lower tax bracket than he is. He's home now and perhaps she draws UI for a while or the company takes the PPP to cover it. His adult age kids perhaps are paid for some menial task they perform. The money funneled to them could be recouped while they draw unemployment.
> 
> Lot's of flexibility exists


Some of that is factually incorrect with respect to how tax law works, especially with respect to home office, auto, and entertainment deductions. I can go point by point if you like, but the things that dumb business owners put on their 1065s or schedule Cs and what would actually pass muster in an audit are completely different things.

The one thing that is kinda valid is paying your kids for fake work, but that does involve giving them money for nothing; something to which a lot of rich people are allergic.

As for the live-in girlfriend/mother of children, if she is dumb enough not to get her share of the business protected by marriage, oh well.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Some of that is factually incorrect with respect to how tax law works, especially with respect to home office, auto, and entertainment deductions. I can go point by point if you like, but the things that dumb business owners put on their 1065s or schedule Cs and what would actually pass muster in an audit are completely different things.
> 
> The one thing that is kinda valid is paying your kids for fake work, but that does involve giving them money for nothing; something to which a lot of rich people are allergic.
> 
> As for the live-in girlfriend/mother of children, if she is dumb enough not to get her share of the business protected by marriage, oh well.


mmm
Bear smart.
&#128077;


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## misscrystal (Apr 5, 2020)

Do you have to be a LLC to get the grant?


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

misscrystal said:


> Do you have to be a LLC to get the grant?


Yes.an LLC or some other form of incorporation.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

The small business administration just announced that the funds in the PPP will be exhausted by the end of business today.

Chuck Schumer is refusing to work with Mitch McConnell to replenish the fund with 250 billion dollars.


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## The queen 👸 (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Yes.an LLC or some other form of incorporation.


We have that. Under the kids name. &#129300;&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> The small business administration just announced that the funds in the PPP will be exhausted by the end of business today.
> 
> Chuck Schumer is refusing to work with Mitch McConnell to replenish the fund with 250 billion dollars.


The Senate finally passed a bill that will replenish the EIDL and PPP funds.

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-i...ess-6847e60b-b194-455f-86de-9e28b5b9945f.html
The US House may put their stamp of approval on it tomorrow, if enough of them can get back in town.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

When the paycheck Protection Program is funded and opens again later this week, make sure you apply as soon as possible, if you want this low interest rate business loan.

The nation's farmers and ranchers will be participating this time.

Also:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252950709345148930


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ballard_Driver said:


> You can actually be either of those things AND pay yourself a salary. It's about how you choose to do it. For my real business I have an LLC, but am not an "employee" with a W2, I just have the profits pass through. The way I've been doing it I would not qualify, but if I had paid myself a salary and issued myself a W2 I would be.


 You qualify either way



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Yes.an LLC or some other form of incorporation.


 No you dont


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Update on my PPP loan application

*April 6* - I Visited my bank (Bank of America) by appointment and was given the brush off. They said I had to apply directly to the SBA which was incorrect

*April 16* - I applied for a PPP loan through PayPal and got an almost immediate email back saying that they have my application but the money ran out, They would continue to process the application hoping that more money would be coming

*April 21 10:02 pm*- I got an email from PayPal requesting more info (I didnt see this until the next day)
Apri; 22 11:30 pm I submitted the requested info which was their loan calculator (average monthly earnings + vacation pay and benefits allowance) and documentation, I sent 12 months of bank statements and a cover letter (over 200 pages)

*April 23 (today) 2:13 am* less than 3 hours later PayPal sent me the loan agreement (detailing the amount of the loan, interest rate, payback schedule and the conditions to get the loan forgiven) to sign

*April 23(today) 8am *I signed the agreement and sent it back

*April 23(today) 9;45 am* the PayPal ppp status page says Im still in underwriting, the next step is 'agreement signed' Im waiting for someone at paypal to sign it and of course the House hasnt passed the new appropriations bill, so I guess I have to wait for that and the Presidents signature first


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Update on my PPP loan application
> 
> *April 6* - I Visited my bank (Bank of America) by appointment and was given the brush off. They said I had to apply directly to the SBA which was incorrect
> 
> ...


Most likely you did not get a "Loan Agreement" as that would require you be given and SBA loan number which aren't yet re started. Unless you have an SBA loan number you have no "Loan Agreement" for the PPP. Most likely what you received is an agreement for them to apply to the SBA for a loan for you when the SBA starts accepting them again. This is essentially an application agreement, which is a good first step.

I am in the same boat, not with rideshare but with a small business I run.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Most likely you did not get a "Loan Agreement" as that would require you be given and SBA loan number which aren't yet re started. Unless you have an SBA loan number you have no "Loan Agreement" for the PPP. Most likely what you received is an agreement for them to apply to the SBA for a loan for you when the SBA starts accepting them again. This is essentially an application agreement, which is a good first step.
> 
> I am in the same boat, not with rideshare but with a small business I run.


The SBA is not making these loans and there is no step in the process that requires their approval. The banks are authorized to make these loans

PayPal has already told me that they are continuing to process applications to the point of approval, while we wait for congress to act

this is the top of page 1 of what I signed. Sure looks like an agreement to me and by the way, the bank has signed it too. I may be overly optimistic, but as soon as the house votes and Trump signs the bill....I think I get the money


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> The SBA is not making these loans and there is no step in the process that requires their approval. The banks are authorized to make these loans
> 
> PayPal has already told me that they are continuing to process applications to the point of approval, while we wait for congress to act
> 
> ...


Did you receive an sba loan #?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Did you receive an sba loan #?


no, no loan number

There is no SBA loan number on the agreement, and as, Ive said; the loan has not been approved and cant be approved until more money is put into the program. I didnt mean to imply that Im sure Ill get this loan, I was simply posting a progress report, and I see the signed agreement as good news...and real progress, I mean, we have to agree on the terms of the loan before I get the loan... No?.

The SBA loan note is in the package too.and I signed it, even though it is not dated and the spot for the SBA loan number is blank. I assume that there wont be a loan number until the bank has the money to loan... and we are waiting on Congress for that


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

*FYI: PPP (Paycheck Protection Program) Loans Resumes Monday, April 27, 2020

"The SBA will resume accepting Paycheck Protection Program applications from participating lenders on Monday, April 27, 2020 at 10:30am EDT."*

Source page: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program

-ac


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I just heard from PayPal re: the status of my PPP loan application. This is the relevant sentence

*"Your completed application was submitted to the SBA and we are awaiting their response". *


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

looks like my PPP loan is approved and the funds will be wired to my account today.. 
Yesterday my wife and I got $1200 each from the stimulus,and it looks like PPP today 
so still waiting on unemployment and the SBA disaster loan advance

This is the status page from my paypal account
So to answer the ops question, yes we can qualify for PPP and to answer the question posed by several on this thread,, sole proprietors and single person LLC's are employees for the purposes of this program

Ron'sRides.biz llc _Loan (A00440815)_

Total Balance
$11,500.00
Pay Off
Date Issued:May 1, 2020
Original loan amount:$11,500.00
Original fee amount:$0.00
Total balance$11,500.00
Principal balance$11,500.00
Fee balance$0.00
Other charges balance$0.00

*Activity Details*
Export activity csv

MAY12020
WireHide details
+$11,500.00
Details
Date
May 1, 2020
Principal
$11,500.00
Fee
$0.00
Other
$0.00


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> looks like my PPP loan is approved and the funds will be wired to my account today..
> Yesterday my wife and I got $1200 each from the stimulus,and it looks like PPP today
> so still waiting on unemployment and the SBA disaster loan advance
> 
> ...


Just curious, if I'm prying too much I get it. Why did you apply for the PPP? It's great you got approved for the $11,500 but you realize as an Uber driver that 75% of the money must be spent on your pay and you are going to have to justify the 8 week amount thru past earnings? You will roughly have to be able to document a past history of revenue stream equalling $1000 per week. If you can't do that you do realize it becomes a loan to be paid back?

The EIDL if you get it will become straight debt. You can't double dip and the EIDL would have to be deducted from the PPP or vice versa. You also can't claim the $1000 "Grant" is also used to pay your salary during the same 8 weeks.

Drivers need to be very careful otherwise the will end up with significant debt as a result of these programs.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Just curious, if I'm prying too much I get it. Why did you apply for the PPP? It's great you got approved for the $11,500 but you realize as an Uber driver that 75% of the money must be spent on your pay and you are going to have to justify the 8 week amount thru past earnings? You will roughly have to be able to document a past history of revenue stream equalling $1000 per week. If you can't do that you do realize it becomes a loan to be paid back?
> 
> The EIDL if you get it will become straight debt. You can't double dip and the EIDL would have to be deducted from the PPP or vice versa. You also can't claim the $1000 "Grant" is also used to pay your salary during the same 8 weeks.
> 
> Drivers need to be very careful otherwise the will end up with significant debt as a result of these programs.


As I understood it the disaster loan is a straight up loan with a low interest rate and a 30 yr term and a forgivable advance of up to $10000. That advance has been changed to $1000 per employee. There is nothing on the SBA website that says the advance has to be used for any specific purpose, and it is not connected to the PPP program at all, In fact when I got the application number there was a link on the page to info on the PPP loan and the suggestion to apply for it too. So I did

I dont expect to be offered anymore than the $1000 advance with the EIDL but if I am, Ill take it
The potential conflict will be if I am approved for the $600/week federal unemployment and the PPP loan.

As far as documenting my "payroll" I used bank statements to qualify for PPP, the loan was based on $1000 per week, $4000 a month plus an estimate for cash tips and vacation pay, plus a health insurance benefit. x 2.5 =$11500. So I think I can use bank statements to get the loan forgiven, If I cant; I cant and ill pay back the loan over 2 years

So as long as I dont double dip (ie pay myself with PPP and accept the $600) I think I can keep both.
And yes I know PPP is a loan that I mayhave to pay back

Bottom line is that Im not afraid of a little debt, as long as I use the money productively.. Heck, Im not afraid of this little debt even if I blow it on something crazy

and by the way i dont have the money yet


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> As I understood it the disaster loan is a straight up loan with a low interest rate and a 30 yr term and a forgivable advance of up to $10000. That advance has been changed to $1000 per employee. There is nothing on the SBA website that says the advance has to be used for any specific purpose, and it is not connected to the PPP program at all, In fact when I got the application number there was a link on the page to info on the PPP loan and the suggestion to apply for it too. So I did
> 
> I dont expect to be offered anymore than the $1000 advance with the EIDL but if I am, Ill take it
> The potential conflict will be if I am approved for the $600/week federal unemployment and the PPP loan.
> ...


Good luck to you. I am still waiting for PPP money for the company I run, 25 employees. You clearly understand the debt issue. Many on this forum think it's free money and will be unprepared for debt.

One correction, the PPP and the EIDL while separate programs they are bridged in the loan awards. One must be deducted from the other if awarded both. The SBA has clearly stated this. The $11,500 awarded to you from the PPP would be deducted from the total EIDL loan amount you requested.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Good luck to you. I am still waiting for PPP money for the company I run, 25 employees. You clearly understand the debt issue. Many on this forum think it's free money and will be unprepared for debt.
> 
> One correction, the PPP and the EIDL while separate programs they are bridged in the loan awards. One must be deducted from the other if awarded both. The SBA has clearly stated this. The $11,500 awarded to you from the PPP would be deducted from the total EIDL loan amount you requested.


I didn't see that on the sba website, but it makes sense. Thanks for the heads up

It's not a problem until it is. I'll figure it out when and if I have to.My thinking now is that I'll take the disaster loan if offered... a 30 year term sounds pretty good to me

Feel free to decline to answer this question, but I gotta ask... what's your business?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Just reading through these posts.... good points being made here. So much new ground being broken, juxtaposing the legislation itself vs the drafted regulations, vs what is enforced and what isn't, vs audits down the road. On the one hand the idea is to get as much "helicopter" money out there as possible, to stimulate the economy. So maybe classifying loans that must be repaid vs loans that are forgiven, and restriction on any activity that can be construed as double-dipping might be liberally interpreted (although you don't ever want to be a George Costanza). On the other hand it was be just as easy to characterize anyone grabbing more than their "fair share" as greedy and might be tarred and feathered.

We're dealing with "the government" here as well, So any application of _logic_ to one's personal situation is dangerous.

One sidenote on the promissory note I signed for the PPP, there is no mention of a grant. It is a loan that must be paid back, unless the bank (yes, the bank, nor the Feds) deems the loan qualifies as being forgivable. I signed up for "everything" when the programs were first announced, but now that the details are coming out I'm feeling the need to be very circumspect regarding which monies to accept. I'm not sure even a CPA or a lawyer could help much with their sage advice, given that the rules are effectively still being written. There's no case law.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I didn't see that on the sba website, but it makes sense. Thanks for the heads up
> 
> It's not a problem until it is. I'll figure it out when and if I have to.My thinking now is that I'll take the disaster loan if offered... a 30 year term sounds pretty good to me
> 
> Feel free to decline to answer this question, but I gotta ask... what's your business?


We manufacture components that go into medical/industrial inspection systems. Biggest customers are in Commercial airline and Oil and Gas industries, both of which will be devestated for awhile. We need the PPP money desperately.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Seamus said:


> We manufacture components that go into medical/industrial inspection systems. Biggest customers are in Commercial airline and Oil and Gas industries, both of which will be devestated for awhile. We need the PPP money desperately.


So just curious how someone in your position would handle such funds. Assuming your people are not coming in now, will you have them come in and give them a payout from the PPP funds as compensation, or will you simply issue checks while there is no work to help them pay their bills?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> So just curious how someone in your position would handle such funds. Assuming your people are not coming in now, will you have them come in and give them a payout from the PPP funds as compensation, or will you simply issue checks while there is no work to help them pay their bills?


We qualify as an essential business so we are working. However, due to economic uncertainty new orders are almost non existent and current orders are moving out (being delayed). It is going to be very challenging for small businesses like ours to survive. Customer expenditures will be low for at least the next 6 months and factory Supply Chains demand will be lower for awhile. This will cause some to go under or lay people off as revenue drops. Our current revenue is only 40% of normal.

We will actually use the money (if we get it) for payroll to save jobs.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Seamus said:


> ...factory Supply Chains demand will be lower for awhile. This will cause some to go under or lay people off as revenue drops. Our current revenue is only 40% of normal.


Ah ha. So if someone in your position were to get a good amount of EIDL funds there would be an argument, however seemingly non-intuitive at this juncture, to actually stock up on your raw materials while supply (and perhaps pricing) is still in place. Pretty tricky waters to navigate. I wish you well.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

oldfart said:


> looks like my PPP loan is approved and the funds will be wired to my account today..
> Yesterday my wife and I got $1200 each from the stimulus,and it looks like PPP today
> so still waiting on unemployment and the SBA disaster loan advance
> 
> ...


Follow up on my PPP loan

This morning I checked the website to see that the wire that was supposed to happen on May 1 had been reversed. But,this evening I checked my bank account and there it was...an $11,500 deposit


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Follow up on my PPP loan
> 
> This morning I checked the website to see that the wire that was supposed to happen on May 1 had been reversed. But,this evening I checked my bank account and there it was...an $11,500 deposit


Yeah I got mine (my company) as well, finally got the deposit.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Yeah I got mine (my company) as well, finally got the deposit.


Congrats

I hope it's enough to take care of your employees (and the company) for as long as it takes to get back to your normal production level


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## Bluecrab (Oct 3, 2016)

Thoughts on PPP for this scenario. Talked to a self employed lawyer. For PPP his earnings were capped at $100,000 a year. Divide by 12 and multiply by 2.5 and his PPP loan is around $20,800.

if he pays himself the salary the loan will be forgiven. Here’s the catch / his law practice is around estates and wills. He said he’s never been busier. No business reduction, it’s actually grown.

helicopter money just being indiscriminately dropped


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Bluecrab said:


> Thoughts on PPP for this scenario. Talked to a self employed lawyer. For PPP his earnings were capped at $100,000 a year. Divide by 12 and multiply by 2.5 and his PPP loan is around $20,800.
> 
> if he pays himself the salary the loan will be forgiven. Here's the catch / his law practice is around estates and wills. He said he's never been busier. No business reduction, it's actually grown.
> 
> helicopter money just being indiscriminately dropped


It was not policed in the first round and therefore a lot of corporations(and people)got it that shouldn't have. Second round is much more fair to small businesses.

He is not out of the woods yet. Monday I received a letter from our bank. The feds are going to start auditing the first round loans with the banks. They are looking for several abuses among the most common:

Non qualifying organizations who applied and got money.
Organizations that didn't suffer economic loss tied to Covid-19 and applied and received money.
Organizations that had large cash reserves on hand or the ability to tap other sources of funding.
Sounds like your lawyer friend might have some explaining to do under #2 about why he applied. No one was "given" anything, they had to solicit the money.


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## Bluecrab (Oct 3, 2016)

Appreciate the info. Lawyer guy not a friend, just a story I became familiar with. Glad there will be a follow up check & balance, especially around your point 2 above. Too many stories I’m familiar with where non-impacted small business owners applied for relief.


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