# How to Handle Unprofitable Ride Requests



## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

We see it a lot. You get a long-distance ping, maybe you wait in a long queue or not. If you don't choose to ignore the ping in the first place, hopefully you call the rider to see where they are going, but if not, you get the bad news when you arrive and find out they're going 15 minutes and 3 miles away. Yep, it's a fare that you'll lose money to service.

When they're right next to me, while they aren't my favorite, but I suck it up and take them. But what about when you have a large time investment in getting to them, and likely in getting back to a place where rides are possible? 

What are your favorite tactics to use to avoid these situations once you have accepted the ping?

I've had airport riders that mention the four previous drivers had flat tires once they heard the destination, so let's not go with that one.

My approach: honest assessment, and sharing with the customer that I simply would lose money on the fare. Sometimes they offer to compensate to make it viable, sometimes I coax them into canceling or I cancel after discussing it with them, and sometimes I just grin and bear it. I'd love to hear what others do in this situation.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Don't accept far-away pings.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

Greguzzi said:


> Don't accept far-away pings.





hotlanta said:


> If you don't choose to ignore the ping in the first place...


Next...


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## paulmsr (Jul 12, 2016)

i never invest a large amount of time to pickup a passenger, its ussually a losing proposition. 10 minutes or more away I let the ping time out, unless its a place I know the app is wrong on the time eta


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

If I have time I tell them the truth. Whenever a passenger stays beyond that because they do not believe me or ask how do I not make money on that ride I literally do the math on that ride on spot. Then deducting ubers cut, my operating cost of going to their destination and back(if applicable), and the estimated taxes I would owe on that ride. My actual net earnings, not the incomplete net earnings uber says. It typically takes me about 40 seconds to math out those factors. They typically get the point after that.
Cost are for the most part are constant, price of the uber in miles and minutes, operating cost per mile, and taxable percentage. The only variables are miles and minutes.
Just saying this ride is not profitable for me to the pax does not mean much to them. You need to realize what they are paying for that ride. In the market I drive in it is about 25 mins at 12 miles to the airport at 1.15 per mile and .22 per min plus 2 dollar base fare. That is 21.3 gross and after 25% taken out it is 16.
The pax pays the 4.50 airport fee and booking fee at 1.55. They pay a total of 27.35 most likely more because of upfront pricing. Assume the pay 30 dollars. I would earn 16 dollars while they pay almost 30.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

paulmsr said:


> i never invest a large amount of time to pickup a passenger, its ussually a losing proposition. 10 minutes or more away I let the ping time out, unless its a place I know the app is wrong on the time eta


Same here. Choosing what ping to accept is important and distance and location are huge considerations.

But sometimes you are after a bonus and can't afford not to accept. Sometimes you're already in a really bad location and fishing for the right ride can get you a subsidized ride back to civilization. Sometimes you're just feeling jaded and fifteen minutes driving alone can be a godsend but you still don't want to waste the long return on a minimum fare ride. Sometimes you've waited in a long queue or waded through traffic already. There's many reasons we may accept a ping that sinks a lot of time into getting to the customer.

My question is specifically asking for advice once you have accepted the ping, called the customer, and learned they are a time intensive minimum fare, 15 minutes and 3 miles.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

TheWanderer said:


> If I have time I tell them the truth. Whenever a passenger stays beyond that because they do not believe me or ask how do I not make money on that ride I literally do the math on that ride on spot. Then deducting ubers cut, my operating cost of going to their destination and back(if applicable), and the estimated taxes I would owe on that ride. My actual net earnings, not the incomplete net earnings uber says. It typically takes me about 40 seconds to math out those factors. They typically get the point after that.
> Cost are for the most part are constant, price of the uber in miles and minutes, operating cost per mile, and taxable percentage. The only variables are miles and minutes.
> Just saying this ride is not profitable for me to the pax does not mean much to them. You need to realize what they are paying for that ride. In the market I drive in it is about 25 mins at 12 miles to the airport at 1.15 per mile and .22 per min plus 2 dollar base fare. That is 21.3 gross and after 25% taken out it is 16.
> The pax pays the 4.50 airport fee and booking fee at 1.55. They pay a total of 27.35 most likely more because of upfront pricing. Assume the pay 30 dollars. I would earn 16 dollars while they pay almost 30.


Thanks, truth is what I usually go with. I also try to give them some actually helpful advice on how to get faster rides if they've been turned down before or are likely to be turned down again.

I like your point of breaking down the costs specifically, I will try that a few times and see what happens. I'm running into customers that just aren't getting it resulting in offer of additional compensation or their own desire to cancel, which makes me think my presentation needs work.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> Thanks, truth is what I usually go with. I also try to give them some actually helpful advice on how to get faster rides if they've been turned down before or are likely to be turned down again.
> 
> I like your point of breaking down the costs specifically, I will try that a few times and see what happens. I'm running into customers that just aren't getting it resulting in offer of additional compensation or their own desire to cancel, which makes me think my presentation needs work.


I do feel horrible for cancelling on long rides because people rely on this service. But I use that to my advantage for the next few pax. The next 2-3 pax ask how is my day and I respond with, oh its not so good because I had to deny a ride to whatever. They usually ask why and I break down the cost of a far ride with my current passenger.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

TheWanderer said:


> I do feel horrible for cancelling on long rides because people rely on this service. But I use that to my advantage for the next few pax. The next 2-3 pax ask how is my day and I respond with, oh its not so good because I had to deny a ride to whatever. They usually ask why and I break down the cost of a far ride with my current passenger.


Whenever I have the opportunity to go into the economics of driver pay (not in a complaining manner), tips do go up. Lots of folks don't intuitively think of everything that can go into a ride (time and distance there, repositioning time back due to an unlucrative destination) and the actual hourly take home vs costs.

Once I've got a passenger in the car, I'm pretty good at coaxing tips out of them when it is possible.


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

Based on my calculations, any almost any ride under 1.7x surge is unprofitable. (Atleast at my cities $0.75 per mile paid)

Aside from that, I used to only take rides that were 10 minutes away or less... Even then I found that wasn't a good metric... 10 minutes on the highway could be 10 miles away and they may just wanna go 2 miles farther away. Which means 10 miles out, 2 miles paid, 12 miles back... I'd earn $1.50 but drove 24 miles ($13.80 by IRS rate)...

Now I don't look at the minutes, I look at the distance to the pax. If they are more than 3 miles away, the ping gets ignored unless it's a heavy surge. 9 out of 10 fares for me end up being min-fares...


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Don't accept far-away pings.


Excellent rule of thumb. Even if you call them, and they tell you that they are going 30 miles, may be just a lie to get you out there and do the trip.

We saw that, from time to time at Yellow Cab. They didn't do it too often, but if was done to get a cab into the ghetto or distant suburbs.


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> My question is specifically asking for advice once you have accepted the ping, called the customer, and learned they are a time intensive minimum fare, 15 minutes and 3 miles.


That's called cherry picking, and is generally frowned upon.... ie: calling the customer ahead to ask their destination. There's a reason they don't show it in the app.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

RussellP said:


> That's called cherry picking, and is generally frowned upon.... ie: calling the customer ahead to ask their destination. There's a reason they don't show it in the app.


There is a reason they don't show it in the app: They are idiots.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> There is a reason they don't show it in the app: They are idiots.


The goal of Uber is to rake in as much money as possible. They feel that their strategy here will get a greater percentage of trips covered, leaving less money on the table. Remember that Uber makes money from every trip, even when their partners make nothing or even lose $$ on a trip.


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## istravisthewizardofoz (Feb 28, 2016)

There is a lot of good advice on this thread. I wonder how many drivers could actually break down the numbers?


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> The goal of Uber is to rake in as much money as possible. They feel that their strategy here will get a greater percentage of trips covered, leaving less money on the table. Remember that Uber makes money from every trip, even when their partners make nothing or even lose $$ on a trip.


Tell me something I don't know, and then tell me how that refutes what I said.

Uber is lazy. And Uber is not a technology company. A technology company would use "cherry-picking" as a tool to increase its profits.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

RussellP said:


> That's called cherry picking, and is generally frowned upon.... ie: calling the customer ahead to ask their destination. There's a reason they don't show it in the app.


I call it a business decision, I do not drive Uber as a hobby. My company does not allow me to take unprofitable fares without good reason. It exists to make money, just like Uber does. Without calling to find out the destination, I've been able to say yes to many fares I'd have otherwise said no to based on ping info alone, and avoid losing money on a great deal, as well.

Don't be naive, they don't show it in the app for the same reason they have a lousy destination filter. The less they show, the more losing fares inexperienced drivers will take.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

Greguzzi said:


> There is a reason they don't show it in the app: They are idiots.


But smart enough to know that many rides would not be accommodated if the destination was visible at the notification stage. Uber is a box of chocolates.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Excellent rule of thumb. Even if you call them, and they tell you that they are going 30 miles, may be just a lie to get you out there and do the trip.
> 
> We saw that, from time to time at Yellow Cab. They didn't do it too often, but if was done to get a cab into the ghetto or distant suburbs.


Only thing difference though technically taxi drivers can't deny rides, right? If a pax did that to me I would still cancel.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

You guys are way too funny. Goober came about because people cried and complained how cabs wouldn't service them because it was a losing proposition for the cab driver.

Yet, here you are....making excuses for doing what you complained taxi drivers were doing.

Welcome to the world of livery service.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

TheWanderer said:


> Only thing difference though technically taxi drivers can't deny rides, right? If a pax did that to me I would still cancel.


Couldn't deny people on the basis of their race or religion or that stuff.

But if you didn't want to chase a short trip out in the boondocks, didn't have to. If someone lived in the far suburbs, they had to wait until there was someone close enough to be willing to do the trip.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> But smart enough to know that many rides would not be accommodated if the destination was visible at the notification stage. Uber is a box of chocolates.


Uber makes money on ALL trips, even those which aren't profitable to the driver. I can see their devotion to not leaving money on the table. It doesn't take "smarts" to figure that out.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> You guys are way too funny. Goober came about because people cried and complained how cabs wouldn't service them because it was a loosing proposition for the cab driver.
> 
> Yet, here you are....making excuses for doing what you complained taxi drivers were doing.
> 
> Welcome to the world of livery service.


I completely agree. It has become as reliable as a taxi used to be. At least in the market I drive in. Hell, I think taxis are more reliable now lol.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

Uber could make more money and drivers would be happier if the company raised rates on short trips. Even if they doubled the mileage rate and per minute rate for trips under 8 miles, it would still be cheaper than a cab. Also add a fee for extended distance pickups and long return trips from low-activity areas. Raising rates for short trips and discounting the per mile rate for longer trips would be less incentive to call ahead. A higher rate with fewer miles on your car means profit. 

In the meantime, what a driver did to me at the airport is the winning strategy. Call ahead and find out where the pax is going. If it's a short trip, then just drive around to other side of the airport, still close enough to stay in the FIFO queue but far enough to increase the pickup time. Call back and tell the pax you're stuck in traffic and they should cancel. That dumps the short trip on the next driver (someone like me) and keeps your place in the queue. Driver support won't do anything about it even if you get reported. Right now there's no downside to cherry picking and dumping short rides.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> But smart enough to know that many rides would not be accommodated if the destination was visible at the notification stage. Uber is a box of chocolates.


They'd get accommodated. Not all drivers have the same wants and needs. Some work part time, some work full time. Some live north and are wanting to head home. Same for all points of the compass.Some are wanting short rides to make bonus. Some want long rides to make more money, but only in one direction not the other. The request might get bounced between 3-4 drivers, but so what? The rider would get a driver who was happy to drive to where the pax wanted to be. Money made would be the same. Miles driven would likely be far less.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> Uber could make more money and drivers would be happier if the company raised rates on short trips. Even if they doubled the mileage rate and per minute rate for trips under 8 miles, it would still be cheaper than a cab. Also add a fee for extended distance pickups and long return trips from low-activity areas. Raising rates for short trips and discounting the per mile rate for longer trips would be less incentive to call ahead. A higher rate with fewer miles on your car means profit.
> 
> In the meantime, what a driver did to me at the airport is the winning strategy. Call ahead and find out where the pax is going. If it's a short trip, then just drive around to other side of the airport, still close enough to stay in the FIFO queue but far enough to increase the pickup time. Call back and tell the pax you're stuck in traffic and they should cancel. That dumps the short trip on the next driver (someone like me) and keeps your place in the queue. Driver support won't do anything about it even if you get reported. Right now there's no downside to cherry picking and dumping short rides.


After this morning, that is what I am gonna do. I waited nearly an hour in queue. The ride I got was under 2 miles and paid about $3. Then, back to the queue, where I was by then 140th car. **** that shit. Uber used to hold your place in queue for short rides like that but now doesn't, so I won't be accepting any of those rides.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

Btw, I think it's a total cheese d0uche move to call the PAX after you've accepted the notification just because you want to find out the drop location/determine how much money you'll make/lose. Take the good with the bad if you do accept a ride and ignore the notify if you're really concerned about it being potentially unprofitable. JMO.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> Btw, I think it's a total cheese d0uche move to call the PAX after you've accepted the notification just because you want to find out the drop location/determine how much money you'll make/lose. JMO.


I would disagree, the people will find another way to get there. I think most citizens, most patrons, can appreciate the fact that you are in business to make money.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I would disagree, the people will find another way to get there. I think most citizens, most patrons, can appreciate the fact that you are in business to make money.


Then ignore the notice. Most patrons are more likely annoyed by a call to ask where they want to be dropped.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

Regardless of whether or not you think a customer should be called, or whether or not you would accept a given ping, this thread is seeking advice for when you have accepted and called and now face an unprofitable ride.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> Then ignore the notice. Most patrons are more likely annoyed by a call to ask where they want to be dropped.


I think that the patrons would be more annoyed if you just didn't show up.

Sure, its not good news to them, but people want to hear bad news more quickly than less so.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

hotlanta said:


> Regardless of whether or not you think a customer should be called, or whether or not you would accept a given ping, this thread is seeking advice for when you have accepted and called and now face an unprofitable ride.


And my advice is don't call. Or, call, make up some reason for calling, and gut it out, taking the bad with the less bad.

Or call, give your sob story and ask patron to cancel and risk some blowback from the patron to said ride share co. to your email to potentially your account status.

If you're looking for some magic words so you don't feel guilty about being a d0uche, there ain't any.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> Or call, give your sob story and ask patron to cancel and risk some blowback from the patron to said ride share co. to your email to potentially your account status.
> 
> If you're looking for some magic words so you don't feel guilty about being a d0uche, there ain't any.


I don't think anyone at all "feels guilty about being a ******" for failing to volunteer to lose money on a trip.

I think most patrons, especially those living in boondocks, are well aware of the cost of gasoline and wear and tear on a car, and are a lot more understanding of why someone might not want to come out and do the trip.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Like TheWanderer, I drive in San Francisco. Since most pick ups are 2-3 minutes away at max, I don't call. I always ask where are we heading today before I start the trip. If the pax wanted to go out of the city I explain that I will not take them there. If they ask why I break it down for them on why the trip would be a loss. I also inform them that there are drivers that will take the trip and they should call the next one to make sure they are okay with taking it. Calling will save them time.


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## LoboNoches (Jan 31, 2017)

hotlanta said:


> We see it a lot. You get a long-distance ping, maybe you wait in a long queue or not. If you don't choose to ignore the ping in the first place, hopefully you call the rider to see where they are going, but if not, you get the bad news when you arrive and find out they're going 15 minutes and 3 miles away. Yep, it's a fare that you'll lose money to service.
> 
> When they're right next to me, while they aren't my favorite, but I suck it up and take them. But what about when you have a large time investment in getting to them, and likely in getting back to a place where rides are possible?
> 
> ...


I accept everything, I dont believe in Cherry Picking especially at airports ,it hurts Riders and other Drivers


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

LoboNoches said:


> I accept everything, I dont believe in Cherry Picking especially at airports ,it hurts Riders and other Drivers


Sorry you feel that way, but when my bank account takes a hit from unprofitable ride it hurts me.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I don't think anyone at all "feels guilty about being a ******" for failing to volunteer to lose money on a trip.
> 
> I think most patrons, especially those living in boondocks, are well aware of the cost of gasoline and wear and tear on a car, and are a lot more understanding of why someone might not want to come out and do the trip.


You can think what you want but...Nope. Most patrons are like any other self-centered person in that they want what they want when they want it, and in this case it is to get a cheap car ride somewhere.

A driver calling, asking about the drop location and explaining why money will be lost is annoying to prolly about 95% of the population. Put yourself in the shoes of the patron. Like me, you wouldn't give two wiggles about their plight.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> You can think what you want but...Nope. Most patrons are like any other self-centered person in that they want what they want when they want it, and in this case it is to get a cheap car ride somewhere.
> 
> A driver calling, asking about the drop location and explaining why money will be lost is annoying to prolly about 95% of the population. Put yourself in the shoes of the patron. Like me, you wouldn't give two wiggles about their plight.


This is the reason I do not feel bad about not taking the trip. The passengers know that their trip is unprofitable, yet they still order it and most don't even think twice about a little extra compensation. If they have no concern for whether the trip loses us money, why should I be concerned if they get to their destination in my car or not? They will find a driver eventually who either is going that way or doesn't yet realize they are losing money.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

LoboNoches said:


> I accept everything, I dont believe in Cherry Picking especially at airports ,it hurts Riders and other Drivers


And I ignore judiciously. But if I hit the button, the only call the patron will receive will be about clarifying something to make the ride work.

Not tooting my horn and I don't like to lose money just as much as he next driver. In my own rules of how to game within the game of ride share, calling and asking to cancel, unless there is a sudden real emergency, isn't happening.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

LoboNoches said:


> I accept everything, I dont believe in Cherry Picking especially at airports ,it hurts Riders and other Drivers


I sincerely do not. Call me what you want, but I do not go into "poor " neighborhoods. It makes no sense financially. I'm running a business, not a charity. That's not a black or white thing. It's a financial thing. In fact the "poorest" area of Orlando is high 90% white. (Bithlo, FL if you want to look it up) I live not far from there, but will never p/u there.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

crazy916 said:


> ...why should I be concerned if they get to their destination in my car or not?


Uhhhhhhh, because you signed up to be an Uber/Lyft/rideshare driver?


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Uhhhhhhh, because you signed up to be an Uber/Lyft/rideshare driver?


"Rideshare" driver. It is my ride and if I am not making money I am not sharing.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Uhhhhhhh, because you signed up to be an Uber/Lyft/rideshare driver?


I signed up to make profit...not be a community service. That's just me though.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> In my own rules of how to game within the game of ride share, calling and asking to cancel, unless there is a sudden real emergency, isn't happening.


Its not a game, but instead a profit making venture. If I put $10 on the pass line and the shooter 7's out, I'm cool with it as it is a game.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

crazy916 said:


> "Rideshare" driver. It is my ride and if I am not making money I am not sharing.


Sure. Tell that to UberLyftRideshareStartup when they do you a favor and deactivate your account.

Not that I live in fear of this, but if I choose to make some cash with the gig, I kinda try to make it work.

To each...


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Sure. Tell that to UberLyftRideshareStartup when they do you a favor and deactivate your account.
> 
> Not that I live in fear of this, but if I choose to make some cash with the gig, I kinda try to make it work.
> 
> To each...


I have several emails from Uber that says I can cancel if I do not like the end destination.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Its not a game, but instead a profit making venture. If I put $10 on the pass line and the shooter 7's out, I'm cool with it as it is a game.


Oh, it's a game alright. With potential for loss as is any casino game.

Profit...pppphhhtttt


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Oh, it's a game alright. With potential for loss as is any casino game.
> 
> Profit...pppphhhtttt


I mostly certainly do profit...so ppphhhhttt


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

crazy916 said:


> I have several emails from Uber that says I can cancel if I do not like the end destination.


Screenshot for context or it didn't happen.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

jp300h said:


> I mostly certainly do profit...so ppphhhhttt


That's tough to do in your market. Hat off to you.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

crazy916 said:


> Like TheWanderer, I drive in San Francisco. Since most pick ups are 2-3 minutes away at max, I don't call. I always ask where are we heading today before I start the trip. If the pax wanted to go out of the city I explain that I will not take them there. If they ask why I break it down for them on why the trip would be a loss. I also inform them that there are drivers that will take the trip and they should call the next one to make sure they are okay with taking it. Calling will save them time.


Thanks, that makes a lot of sense when your next ride is always close, and I do always ask about the destination before I start the trip. Once I start the trip, even if I forgot to ask the destination, I'll always complete, unless the customer misrepresented the destination, adds stops I'm unwilling to make, or makes changes I find unreasonable without an offer of additional compensation to offset the loss I would be taking.

SF is much more developed than my market. When you have this conversation with customers, do you find they are almost always understanding? Do they accept this as the norm out there, or do they often take issue with your explanation and decision?


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

Over/Uber said:


> Screenshot for context or it didn't happen.


This is well established Uber policy. If abused, sure, they can always deactivate if you're more disruptive than productive. They get to make their business decisions, too.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> This is the reason I do not feel bad about not taking the trip. The passengers know that their trip is unprofitable, yet they still order it and most don't even think twice about a little extra compensation. If they have no concern for whether the trip loses us money, why should I be concerned if they get to their destination in my car or not? They will find a driver eventually who either is going that way or doesn't yet realize they are losing money.


Most of the pax I tell don't realize that long rides are not profitable. For the most part they think long rides are the holy grail. On there end they just see how much they pay, which includes any tolls/fees that we either dont get or just reimbursed. They assume we can get rides ANYWHERE. 
After breaking it down into a monetary figure after accounting for every expense, I always ask them, "would you personally take this ride if you knew you were netting X dollars on this ride.?"

I just let them know they should call their driver and ask if they are willing to go that far. 
In addition I let them know I am not only talking from a drivers perspective but a consumer as well. I assure them that whenever I request a ride that goes far that I call up the driver every time. If you want to persuade a pax more you can lie about you personally take g the service but you call ahead.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> Thanks, that makes a lot of sense when your next ride is always close, and I do always ask about the destination before I start the trip. Once I start the trip, even if I forgot to ask the destination, I'll always complete, unless the customer misrepresented the destination, adds stops I'm unwilling to make, or makes changes I find unreasonable without an offer of additional compensation to offset the loss I would be taking.
> 
> SF is much more developed than my market. When you have this conversation with customers, do you find they are almost always understanding? Do they accept this as the norm out there, or do they often take issue with your explanation and decision?


If they decide to stay and ask why they typically do. But remember you need to explain the math behind it. Not just commission, but your operating cost, and taxes.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Screenshot for context or it didn't happen.


Like this?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> You can think what you want but...Nope. Most patrons are like any other self-centered person in that they want what they want when they want it, and in this case it is to get a cheap car ride somewhere.
> 
> A driver calling, asking about the drop location and explaining why money will be lost is annoying to prolly about 95% of the population. Put yourself in the shoes of the patron. Like me, you wouldn't give two wiggles about their plight.


The patrons would not be happy about it, and you're right, they don't care about anyone's plight. But of course they understand the ways of the world. Uber has been around for only a few years, and if the people live in the boondocks they are undoubtably familiar with how hard it can sometimes be to get a ride.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Screenshot for context or it didn't happen.


We can cancel based on geographical destinations/locations. That is why we have to maintain a certain cancellation rate, so we can cancel rides for certain reasons.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> Like this?
> View attachment 93973


But you are discriminating towards destinations lol.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

TheWanderer said:


> But you are discriminating towards destinations lol.


Destination is not a protected class. I don't see destination on the following list.

*What are the protected classes in California?*

In all 50 states, federal law makes it illegal to discriminate based on:


Race
Color
National origin
Religion
Sex (including pregnancy, childbirth, and related medical conditions)
Disability
Age (40 and older)
Citizenship status
Genetic information
In addition, California state law also prohibits discrimination based on:


Race
Color
National origin
Religion
Sex (including pregnancy, childbirth, and related medical conditions)
Disability: Physical or mental
Age (40 and older)
Genetic information
Marital status
Sexual orientation and identity
AIDS/HIV
Medical condition
Political activities or affiliations
Military or veteran status
Status as a victim of domestic violence, assault, or stalking


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Nor listed there is "financial class" which is what I absolutely do figure into my decision.


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## Lionslover (Nov 2, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Uhhhhhhh, because you signed up to be an Uber/Lyft/rideshare driver?


I agree with you,nobody likes to lose money,but you take the good with the bad.we all knew the rules before driving.i have never called a rider to ask where their going and never will.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

hotlanta said:


> This is well established Uber policy. If abused, sure, they can always deactivate if you're more disruptive than productive. They get to make their business decisions, too.


I'm sure Uber policy says "hey, call the patron after you've accepted the ride and ask for the drop spot so you can cancel if you don't think you're making enough money."


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> I'm sure Uber policy says "hey, call the patron after you've accepted the ride and ask for the drop spot so you can cancel if you don't think you're making enough money."


That is a great summary of the email screenshot I posted. Thank you.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

crazy916 said:


> That is a great summary of the email screenshot I posted. Thank you.


Loosely interpeted, yes.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Lionslover said:


> I agree with you,nobody likes to lose money,but you take the good with the bad.we all knew the rules before driving.i have never called a rider to ask where their going and never will.


I don't call pax before hand either (other than to locate them/ see how drunk they are downtown) But for normal non 2am rides, I severely limit my "bad rides" by knowing what area I am in or where ping is coming from. If I don't like it, I don't accept.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

Over/Uber said:


> I'm sure Uber policy says "hey, call the patron after you've accepted the ride and ask for the drop spot so you can cancel if you don't think you're making enough money."


You already asked for a screen shot and received one. You could easily have talked with Uber yourself or searched either the forum or google'd for the same. You have a copy of all documents you signed available to you just as I do.

I have not accepted the ride until I swipe to begin the ride. All I have until that point is a lead. There is absolutely nothing that compels me to accept every lead.

If Uber was a lead-generation service and payment platform in another industry, for example home repairs, I would certainly qualify that lead and if they wanted their whole house repaired for a $49 promo, I'd politely decline that lead as well. That's business.

Whether I drive three minutes to them or call them (which is polite, it saves them much time and gets them some advice leading to a quicker ride) before qualifying that lead is irrelevant.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Lionslover said:


> I agree with you,nobody likes to lose money,but you take the good with the bad.we all knew the rules before driving.i have never called a rider to ask where their going and never will.


There might be some benefit in taking money losing trips if there was an upside as far as "good will" or future good trips that you might line yourself up for.

But it isn't your business, and you have no interest in whether or not the customer ever calls again or finds someone more reliable.


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## Lionslover (Nov 2, 2016)

jp300h said:


> I don't call pax before hand either (other than to locate them/ see how drunk they are downtown) But for normal non 2am rides, I severely limit my "bad rides" by knowing what area I am in or where ping is coming from. If I don't like it, I don't accept.


That I can understand,I drive near the Detroit area,if I get a ping after midnight in a neighborhood in Detroit I'm not accepting it because their is too much violence to risk my life for $5.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

TheWanderer said:


> Most of the pax I tell don't realize that long rides are not profitable.


Not according to my research. A lot depends on where you live but my highest earning days, both hourly and trip average, are days when I'm getting a lot of longer rides. Those are the days I can beat the theoretical maximum, even accounting for deadheading from a remote stop. Long rides to another area where I can work are gravy. Though I'll concede that I have a really efficient car.

That math changes if you live in an area of high population density or drive an XL vehicle. If you're driving area is surging a lot through the night, then a long ride hurts when it takes you away from a busy area. Even then I'd argue the difference is pretty minor. I'd like to hear more about why long trips hurt your income. What is it about your area that makes them unprofitable? On days where it's all short trips, I get murdered.

With the current rate structure pax and drivers are frequently at odds with one another on an individual transaction. Drivers are not invested in the success of the company and no one can blame them. Uber could help by adding fees for certain situations (long pickup times, gated communities, extended return trips) maybe some thing like zone taxis use and raising the rates for short rides from the airport.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

hotlanta said:


> You already asked for a screen shot and received one. You could easily have talked with Uber yourself or searched either the forum or google'd for the same. You have a copy of all documents you signed available to you just as I do.
> 
> I have not accepted the ride until I swipe to begin the ride. All I have until that point is a lead. There is absolutely nothing that compels me to accept every lead.
> 
> ...


Don't think I said anything about accepting every "lead" or anything in Uber's policy that says I have to although there is the acceptance rate thing to consider.

Your home repair example is not exactly apples for apples. Lead generators have a written scope of services and limitations that can be expected by the patron for a given fee or promotion. Very specific. Uber's policy say nothing about a driver's scope including making money or lack thereof.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> Destination is not a protected class. I don't see destination on the following list.
> 
> *What are the protected classes in California?*
> 
> ...


I didn't say it wasn't allowed to discriminate towards long rides. I discriminate towards rides that are barley profitable.


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> The goal of Uber is to rake in as much money as possible. They feel that their strategy here will get a greater percentage of trips covered, leaving less money on the table. Remember that Uber makes money from every trip, even when their partners make nothing or even lose $$ on a trip.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> Not according to my research. A lot depends on where you live but my highest earning days, both hourly and trip average, are days when I'm getting a lot of longer rides. Those are the days I can beat the theoretical maximum, even accounting for deadheading from a remote stop. Long rides to another area where I can work are gravy. Though I'll concede that I have a really efficient car.
> 
> That math changes if you live in an area of high population density or drive an XL vehicle. If you're driving area is surging a lot through the night, then a long ride hurts when it takes you away from a busy area. Even then I'd argue the difference is pretty minor. I'd like to hear more about why long trips hurt your income. What is it about your area that makes them unprofitable? On days where it's all short trips, I get murdered.
> 
> With the current rate structure pax and drivers are frequently at odds with one another on an individual transaction. Drivers are not invested in the success of the company and no one can blame them. Uber could help by adding fees for certain situations (long pickup times, gated communities, extended return trips) maybe some thing like zone taxis use and raising the rates for short rides from the airport.


Technically no one is actually not netting negative, but you do not make much money on long trips after accounting for your expenses.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

Snore......zzzzzzzzzzzz...... Take the ride, don't take the ride. Who cares? If you are an Uber driver you are supposed to take the ride. Not doing so only means the ride is going to be sent to the next driver down the line and that's on you. I absolutely understand that you have no conscience and don't care about anyone other than yourself, but Karma has a way of coming back to bite you in the a$$. There are a lot of Uber drivers with huge hunks missing from the behinds! If you call your riders and only pick them up if they are going "far enough" then you should be shut down by Uber. You suck and you are likely the reason Uber keeps cutting rates in hopes of keeping their riders. If this business fails, it will likely be the drivers fault as Uber has to constantly react to the negative feedback from their riders.
Have you ever called someone who immediately asked "are you going to pick me up"? I have, and that means the rider has gotten multiple calls, multiple denials and is now desperate to get where they want to go. Good work guys and gals! You have made a great impression on the riders about the quality of service available from Uber.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Snore......zzzzzzzzzzzz...... Take the ride, don't take the ride. Who cares? If you are an Uber driver you are supposed to take the ride. Not doing so only means the ride is going to be sent to the next driver down the line and that's on you. I absolutely understand that you have no conscience and don't care about anyone other than yourself, but Karma has a way of coming back to bite you in the a$$. There are a lot of Uber drivers with huge hunks missing from the behinds! If you call your riders and only pick them up if they are going "far enough" then you should be shut down by Uber. You suck and you are likely the reason Uber keeps cutting rates in hopes of keeping their riders. If this business fails, it will likely be the drivers fault as Uber has to constantly react to the negative feedback from their riders.
> Have you ever called someone who immediately asked "are you going to pick me up"? I have, and that means the rider has gotten multiple calls, multiple denials and is now desperate to get where they want to go. Good work guys and gals! You have made a great impression on the riders about the quality of service available from Uber.


If the next driver down the line doesn't want to be profitable that is his or her fault, not mine. I run this like any business should be ran, revenue minus expense = profit/loss. I do not like seeing a loss and try to do everything I can to minimize that. I do not have investors throwing money at me like Uber.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Snore......zzzzzzzzzzzz...... Take the ride, don't take the ride. Who cares? If you are an Uber driver you are supposed to take the ride. Not doing so only means the ride is going to be sent to the next driver down the line and that's on you. I absolutely understand that you have no conscience and don't care about anyone other than yourself, but Karma has a way of coming back to bite you in the a$$. There are a lot of Uber drivers with huge hunks missing from the behinds! If you call your riders and only pick them up if they are going "far enough" then you should be shut down by Uber. You suck and you are likely the reason Uber keeps cutting rates in hopes of keeping their riders. If this business fails, it will likely be the drivers fault as Uber has to constantly react to the negative feedback from their riders.
> Have you ever called someone who immediately asked "are you going to pick me up"? I have, and that means the rider has gotten multiple calls, multiple denials and is now desperate to get where they want to go. Good work guys and gals! You have made a great impression on the riders about the quality of service available from Uber.


How are we the result of price cuts. Back when I first drove, I had friends that been driving and never turned down rides, especially far rides. 99% of riders are accepted. Then came along Jan 2014 with price cuts, after that it might have been 85% of rides were taken. Then came 2015 price cuts, etc. It seems like you have not been driving long but there was a price war between uber and lyft. Uber cut prices initially because lyft did, not because uber drivers provided good service.


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## GClarkage (Jun 8, 2016)

Greguzzi said:


> Don't accept far-away pings.


I don't except any ride that I have to drive 15 minutes or more to get to...unless it's at least 2X


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## Lwill21 (Oct 31, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> We see it a lot. You get a long-distance ping, maybe you wait in a long queue or not. If you don't choose to ignore the ping in the first place, hopefully you call the rider to see where they are going, but if not, you get the bad news when you arrive and find out they're going 15 minutes and 3 miles away. Yep, it's a fare that you'll lose money to service.
> 
> When they're right next to me, while they aren't my favorite, but I suck it up and take them. But what about when you have a large time investment in getting to them, and likely in getting back to a place where rides are possible?
> 
> ...


I like your honesty.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

Lwill21 said:


> I like your honesty.


Thanks. If I felt like I had to be dishonest (the "flat tire" excuse or run scams on riders like so many do), I'd really have to reevaluate driving Uber. My morality is somewhat flexible, though, I'm not above taking a wrong turn and then letting someone know it would be faster to re-request. By and large, though, what I appreciate is the feedback that helps show different ways to couch the "your ride would lose me money sir/maam" problem we run into sometimes, in hopes of becoming a bit more profitable.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

RussellP said:


> Based on my calculations, any almost any ride under 1.7x surge is unprofitable. (Atleast at my cities $0.75 per mile paid)
> 
> Aside from that, I used to only take rides that were 10 minutes away or less... Even then I found that wasn't a good metric... 10 minutes on the highway could be 10 miles away and they may just wanna go 2 miles farther away. Which means 10 miles out, 2 miles paid, 12 miles back... I'd earn $1.50 but drove 24 miles ($13.80 by IRS rate)...
> 
> Now I don't look at the minutes, I look at the distance to the pax. If they are more than 3 miles away, the ping gets ignored unless it's a heavy surge. 9 out of 10 fares for me end up being min-fares...


If the pickup is 5 or more miles away, I'm not picking them up, I look out for my financial interest not ubers.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> The goal of Uber is to rake in as much money as possible. They feel that their strategy here will get a greater percentage of trips covered, leaving less money on the table. Remember that Uber makes money from every trip, even when their partners make nothing or even lose $$ on a trip.


 I agree, if its to far I don't pick them up.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> You guys are way too funny. Goober came about because people cried and complained how cabs wouldn't service them because it was a losing proposition for the cab driver.
> 
> Yet, here you are....making excuses for doing what you complained taxi drivers were doing.
> 
> Welcome to the world of livery service.


 Good comment.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

TheWanderer said:


> I completely agree. It has become as reliable as a taxi used to be. At least in the market I drive in. Hell, I think taxis are more reliable now lol.


Only drivers that pickup a long distance passenger are the new drivers, They will figure out soon enough that they will see less than gas money and the pickup wasn't worth it.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I would disagree, the people will find another way to get there. I think most citizens, most patrons, can appreciate the fact that you are in business to make money.


I agree, I'm not losing money driving 10 miles for a trip that's only 2 blocks, That financially makes no sense.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

jp300h said:


> I sincerely do not. Call me what you want, but I do not go into "poor " neighborhoods. It makes no sense financially. I'm running a business, not a charity. That's not a black or white thing. It's a financial thing. In fact the "poorest" area of Orlando is high 90% white. (Bithlo, FL if you want to look it up) I live not far from there, but will never p/u there.


 I agree 100%.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

I keep my acceptance rate low and I don't need to cancel. 

I think drivers who cancel a ride to a destination to a ride they don't like is fine but lying or trying to force pax to cancel is lame.

I know one pax who was attacked by his driver because he refused to cancel. I thought it was cool of pax. If you as a driver cancel that much you are doing it wrong.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> "Rideshare" driver. It is my ride and if I am not making money I am not sharing.


 Good comment...lol.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

jp300h said:


> I signed up to make profit...not be a community service. That's just me though.


 I agree, gas and oil changes cost money, This ain't public transportation.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> If the next driver down the line doesn't want to be profitable that is his or her fault, not mine. I run this like any business should be ran, revenue minus expense = profit/loss. I do not like seeing a loss and try to do everything I can to minimize that. I do not have investors throwing money at me like Uber.


 The pax only care about getting a cheap ride. I Drive to make money not lose it, if uber paid for pickup I might attempt to driver a further distance to get a passenger.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

Charmer, do you agree?


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Charmer, do you agree?


 I agree to not picking up passengers that are 10 miles away, If the ping is to far than don't accept the ping.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

9 posts by one person, not a single one relevant to original topic.

Is there a prize for most comments in a thread that I missed?


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

Guys, we all know about ignoring pings that are too far away. That's old news. This thread has a nicely narrow scope: once you have accepted a ping and spoken with the customer and learned the destination makes the fare a losing proposition, what then? Please quit spamming the thread with unrelated babble, it makes the forum pretty useless for actually getting advice. 

Sometimes it's more profitable to accept some of these, and see if you can fulfill the trip, or not. Some pings fifteen minutes away are worthwhile. Some pings in dense traffic are worthwhile. Some pings in a long queue are worthwhile. 

If you don't want to accept pings in the first place, feel free not to


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

I don't mean to be unfriendly, but there's been very few really relevant responses to this thread (though those have been awesome!) and a ton of "don't accept far away pings" and "you're a big meany and a kitten will die if you accept a ping and don't do the trip" responses. We've heard those thoughts. Now let's have more input on the original topic so we can share, learn, and consider other points of view and things that actually work for other people. Please?


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

Okay, I've considered other points of view and it's still a ****** canoe move.

The reasons you're getting more responses about not calling is because A. it's not the right thing to do (although ethics seems to be more a moving target these days) and some people are wondering how folks can be okay with it, B. it's selfish and you're putting yourself ahead of the basic mission of serving others through rideshare, C. it does not represent well the company you have chosen to "partner" with, and D. because of all the above, said rideshare co. looks down on such activity and will rightfully deactivate your connection to their app.

But hey, if your integrity is worth less than a few bucks and an occasional inconvenience, phone away.

(Post no. 10. We'll, I went back and counted and it's more like no. 16)


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)




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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

Your probably not gonna love my answer/thought, Hot Lanta. I take it. If I accepted the ping, I do the ride.

Always seems to lead to a good day or next ride.

(Just for me!) If I accept say a 15 minute away ride to pick some one up. I don't call or even consider. I, and again, just for me. If I accepted the ping, I have entered in to a contract that I accepted. And complete the task as well as it can be done. LoL, no. no kittens will die but do feel it is unsavory for me and that it would make me lesser if I didn't do wut I said would do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> We see it a lot. You get a long-distance ping, maybe you wait in a long queue or not. If you don't choose to ignore the ping in the first place, hopefully you call the rider to see where they are going, but if not, you get the bad news when you arrive and find out they're going 15 minutes and 3 miles away. Yep, it's a fare that you'll lose money to service.
> 
> When they're right next to me, while they aren't my favorite, but I suck it up and take them. But what about when you have a large time investment in getting to them, and likely in getting back to a place where rides are possible?
> 
> ...


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

TheWanderer said:


> If I have time I tell them the truth. Whenever a passenger stays beyond that because they do not believe me or ask how do I not make money on that ride I literally do the math on that ride on spot. Then deducting ubers cut, my operating cost of going to their destination and back(if applicable), and the estimated taxes I would owe on that ride. My actual net earnings, not the incomplete net earnings uber says. It typically takes me about 40 seconds to math out those factors. They typically get the point after that.
> Cost are for the most part are constant, price of the uber in miles and minutes, operating cost per mile, and taxable percentage. The only variables are miles and minutes.
> Just saying this ride is not profitable for me to the pax does not mean much to them. You need to realize what they are paying for that ride. In the market I drive in it is about 25 mins at 12 miles to the airport at 1.15 per mile and .22 per min plus 2 dollar base fare. That is 21.3 gross and after 25% taken out it is 16.
> The pax pays the 4.50 airport fee and booking fee at 1.55. They pay a total of 27.35 most likely more because of upfront pricing. Assume the pay 30 dollars. I would earn 16 dollars while they pay almost 30.


While I can appreciate your diligence in spelling out the cost/benefit to the rider, I would not waste my time. First of all, if I'm on a high speed roadway I don't want to be distracted at 65 MPH being someone's financial adviser. Second, it's none of their business how much you earn on the transaction. Try asking him/her to breakdown their daily earnings---they'll tell you to "f**k off--it's none of your business". Once I determine that I don't want to accept the ride, I politely tell them I won't be picking them up and hang up. They can't rate you since you haven't started the ride. I don't have time to linger over whether they're not happy or won't like me. Who cares?


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

blackjackross said:


> While I can appreciate your diligence in spelling out the cost/benefit to the rider, I would not waste my time. First of all, if I'm on a high speed roadway I don't want to be distracted at 65 MPH being someone's financial adviser. Second, it's none of their business how much you earn on the transaction. Try asking him/her to breakdown their daily earnings---they'll tell you to "f**k off--it's none of your business". Once I determine that I don't want to accept the ride, I politely tell them I won't be picking them up and hang up. They can't rate you since you haven't started the ride. I don't have time to linger over whether they're not happy or won't like me. Who cares?


Except explaining the rationale for the decision might help to prompt an offer of additional compensation. Guess it depends on how much time you have on your hands, if it's a remote area you are in, better to explain, if dense, no need -- but then we are more likely to have not accepted the ping in the first place.


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## UberAnt39 (Jun 1, 2016)

TheWanderer said:


> I do feel horrible for cancelling on long rides because people rely on this service. But I use that to my advantage for the next few pax. The next 2-3 pax ask how is my day and I respond with, oh its not so good because I had to deny a ride to whatever. They usually ask why and I break down the cost of a far ride with my current passenger.


Ever get pax falling asleep in mid story? Or auto-nodding whilst concentrating on their phone?


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## roadman (Nov 14, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> We see it a lot. You get a long-distance ping, maybe you wait in a long queue or not. If you don't choose to ignore the ping in the first place, hopefully you call the rider to see where they are going, but if not, you get the bad news when you arrive and find out they're going 15 minutes and 3 miles away. Yep, it's a fare that you'll lose money to service.
> 
> When they're right next to me, while they aren't my favorite, but I suck it up and take them. But what about when you have a large time investment in getting to them, and likely in getting back to a place where rides are possible?
> 
> ...


never wait in a long queue
never accept a ping more then 7 minutes.
never contact a rider.
never have a large time investment in getting to them.
i don't get put into the situations you do. You just started right?


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## Milito (Apr 26, 2016)

Unless the area is surging all the rides are unprofitable


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## PCH5150 (Jan 13, 2017)

I've spent over twenty years in customer service. Know one thing, some customers/pax are very nice, some are neutral, some are rude, but none of them, not one, cares AT ALL if it is profitable for you. They could be nice to you for years, and if you suddenly burst into flames, they will step over your smoking carcass and request another driver.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Over/Uber said:


> Okay, I've considered other points of view and it's still a ****** canoe move.
> 
> The reasons you're getting more responses about not calling is because A. it's not the right thing to do (although ethics seems to be more a moving target these days) and some people are wondering how folks can be okay with it, B. it's selfish and you're putting yourself ahead of the basic mission of serving others through rideshare, C. it does not represent well the company you have chosen to "partner" with, and D. because of all the above, said rideshare co. looks down on such activity and will rightfully deactivate your connection to their app.
> 
> ...


I don't see where this has anything to do with "ethics", IMHO, its unethical to expect someone to work for nothing- not even goodwill. The people's mission in choosing to Uber is to make money in the Ultimate Side Hustle- not "serving others". As far as "deactivation", either side of the partnership- Uber or the driver- can deactivate at any time for any reason or no reason.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

blackjackross said:


> While I can appreciate your diligence in spelling out the cost/benefit to the rider, I would not waste my time. First of all, if I'm on a high speed roadway I don't want to be distracted at 65 MPH being someone's financial adviser. Second, it's none of their business how much you earn on the transaction. Try asking him/her to breakdown their daily earnings---they'll tell you to "f**k off--it's none of your business". Once I determine that I don't want to accept the ride, I politely tell them I won't be picking them up and hang up. They can't rate you since you haven't started the ride. I don't have time to linger over whether they're not happy or won't like me. Who cares?


I don't call them. I cancel when they get in the car and when I find out when they get in. It would be VERY tedious calling up every pax regarding destination. Also I am rarley on a high speed freeway. If I was in your position I would not waste my time on an explanation. If you tried calling up every person in the market and asking them about their destination you would quickly realize it would be a waste of energy.
Our earnings does kind of concern them because us cancelling on a pax is cause by the low earnings. My friend cancelled a ride because it was going to far and the lady said he was the 6th driver that cancelled. About 25% of the time whenever I cancel, the pax says that they already had multiple drivers cancel on them.


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

hotlanta said:


> Except explaining the rationale for the decision might help to prompt an offer of additional compensation. Guess it depends on how much time you have on your hands, if it's a remote area you are in, better to explain, if dense, no need -- but then we are more likely to have not accepted the ping in the first place.


A pool request at 3 AM in a remote suburban location that is 12 minutes away is not exactly what I would call a profitable business opportunity. What is the likelihood that you are going to get another pool request under those circumstances? In my 2 year experience as an Uber driver most of these rides end up being a 2 or 3 mile drive to get cigarettes and beer at the local 7Eleven or someone going to a nearby suburban location----end up making $3 for that? Is that what you signed up for? I am running this like a business----not a 503c non-profit organization. I do a quick cost/benefit analysis and make the choice based on that. Car dealerships, real estate agencies and any other for profit business don't sell their products and services because it's a feel good thing to do. We are in a ride share business --that means you choose when/where/who to pick up if you can make money off of it.

If you want to do charitable or other make you feel good work---a worthwhile cause---volunteer your services to a local church group to drive seniors on errands. But don't confuse this with being an ethical issue.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Over/Uber said:


> Okay, I've considered other points of view and it's still a ****** canoe move.
> 
> The reasons you're getting more responses about not calling is because A. it's not the right thing to do (although ethics seems to be more a moving target these days) and some people are wondering how folks can be okay with it, B. it's selfish and you're putting yourself ahead of the basic mission of serving others through rideshare, C. it does not represent well the company you have chosen to "partner" with, and D. because of all the above, said rideshare co. looks down on such activity and will rightfully deactivate your connection to their app.
> 
> ...


A. As far as the passenger is concerned it sucks, but it is in no way unethical. 
B. Call it what you want to, but we are basically taxis that owe and operate our own car instead of leasing them. This means we need to watch our bottomline. I didn't start driving to serve people. I drive to make money
C. If said company cared about the issues faced by driver, we as drivers would care more about how we represent them. 
D. Uber/Lyft have numbers that an algorithm compares to your current numbers and makes a decision on whether you are in the acceptable range. If not you can be deactivated. This is normally preempted by an email notice that you have fallen below the limits. If you need to cancel that many rides to find a profitable on chances are Uber/Lyft are not worth driving in your market. I live in Sacramento and will not drive there for anything less than 2x surge as it would not be profitable. Now when I drive in San Francisco, I might cancel 2 or 3 rides on over the 60+ I do every weekend, as those are the ones that are not profitable.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I don't see where this has anything to do with "ethics", IMHO, its unethical to expect someone to work for nothing- not even goodwill. The people's mission in choosing to Uber is to make money in the Ultimate Side Hustle- not "serving others". As far as "deactivation", either side of the partnership- Uber or the driver- can deactivate at any time for any reason or no reason.





Over/Uber said:


> Okay, I've considered other points of view and it's still a ****** canoe move.
> 
> The reasons you're getting more responses about not calling is because A. it's not the right thing to do (although ethics seems to be more a moving target these days) and some people are wondering how folks can be okay with it, B. it's selfish and you're putting yourself ahead of the basic mission of serving others through rideshare, C. it does not represent well the company you have chosen to "partner" with, and D. because of all the above, said rideshare co. looks down on such activity and will rightfully deactivate your connection to their app.
> 
> ...


If ethics and integrity are involved, you do realize it was uber and lyft have little to no respect and ethically challenged towards drivers, but not pax. I have picked up uber employees that do not agree with ethics behind uber towards drivers. Heard from multiple people who work at uber that a majority of mid tier and lower employees agree that it is awful to be a driver for numerous reasons. If a lot of employees think uber is a terrible company, that is a very bad indication... I have been personally told by uber employees that drivers, including me, need to stop driving because if how bad it has gotten.
If you think uber is being ethical by lowering rates in Detroit to 30 cents a mile for a period of time, then anything you say has no validity.


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## NASCAR1991 (Mar 26, 2016)

RussellP said:


> That's called cherry picking, and is generally frowned upon.... ie: calling the customer ahead to ask their destination. There's a reason they don't show it in the app.


Thats called 1099 k.
If u a contractror who lays carpet. And someone from 100 miles away calls you and want u to do a job worth 50 bucks...u not gonna do it...and its ur right.
Same goes for uber..u do what profits you


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

NASCAR1991 said:


> Thats called 1099 k.
> If u a contractror who lays carpet. And someone from 100 miles away calls you and want u to do a job worth 50 bucks...u not gonna do it...and its ur right.
> Same goes for uber..u do what profits you


I agree, but with Uber you do get the opportunity to accept or decline each job... I'm talking about the ones that accept the trip, then cancel it. Don't wanna drive 10 minutes to the pickup, don't accept the trip in the first place... It tells you how far away it is in the first place. Let it roll to the next driver... Instead you're making it a pain in the ass for the riders to have to re-request a ride, duplicate credit card authorizations and such.

I do concede that during the accept/decline phase you don't have any way to know what the ride is worth, but I know that my average ride is about $5 so I assume it's a $5 ride. And so I don't accept pings if they're over 8 mins away now.

Just saying... Either Accept or Decline... If you Accept, you should take the ride. Accepting and Cancelling looks bad on all of us and makes unhappy Pax!


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

RussellP said:


> I agree, but with Uber you do get the opportunity to accept or decline each job... I'm talking about the ones that accept the trip, then cancel it. Don't wanna drive 10 minutes to the pickup, don't accept the trip in the first place... It tells you how far away it is in the first place. Let it roll to the next driver... Instead you're making it a pain in the ass for the riders to have to re-request a ride, duplicate credit card authorizations and such.
> 
> I do concede that during the accept/decline phase you don't have any way to know what the ride is worth, but I know that my average ride is about $5 so I assume it's a $5 ride. And so I don't accept pings if they're over 8 mins away now.
> 
> Just saying... Either Accept or Decline... If you Accept, you should take the ride. Accepting and Cancelling looks bad on all of us and makes unhappy Pax!


If a driver cancel, the pax does not have to do anything, their request automatically gets put back into the pool.

We are not talking about a minimum fare. My friend did a ride that was 2.5hours at 120 miles. After ubers cut, he made 95 dollars. He got that request from his city. He ultimately had to drive back.
So you would gladly drive 2.5 hours at 120 miles away from where you usually drive to a city where you will never get a ride back anywhere near where you live or where you typically drive. And he did not even include operating cost or taxes, so he didn't actually net 95 dollars.

In nascars post, this is almost the same exact scenario.
Imagine you as a consumer post in a metropolitan city about carpentry needed to be done. You post on a major city because you know you would get good rates because there is more competition. After the carpenter contacts you about the job and he assumes you live in the city which you post. You tell him you live 50 miles outside the city but the people in your current city charge more considering there are less carpenters. What do you think the carpenter that contacted you is going to do?
It is a very similar situation here, we/carpenters do not want to do a job outside the city we primarily work in unless the consumer/passenger compensates the driver/carpenter more due to the fact that we/carpenter have to drive back to the area of which we live in or work in.

I think maybe you assumed we were talking about extremely short rides not being profitable.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Milito said:


> Unless the area is surging all the rides are unprofitable


Thats the truth driving for uber and it don't matter what market you drive in, At base rates after uber fees you will only earn between $3 to $4 dollars, I only work boost and when its surging.


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## hotlanta (Jan 14, 2017)

roadman said:


> never wait in a long queue
> never accept a ping more then 7 minutes.
> never contact a rider.
> never have a large time investment in getting to them.
> i don't get put into the situations you do. You just started right?


Nope, not at all new. I understand pretty well what not to take. But there are times where it is worthwhile to accept far-away pings if you can discern which are profitable and which are not.


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## Jeramiah (Jan 16, 2017)

crazy916 said:


> Like this?
> View attachment 93973


Just saved this screenshot. Thanks


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

Surge is nothing but baiting drivers to areas. Bottom line: if you must drive 10 minutes, 15 minutes, etc. ,or out of an area with significant population density to pick up a rider then surge or prime time (lyft) should be a locked in price factor to the ride equation. As the current business model stands, it is a flat out circus / racket. The drivers / partners are continuously put in bad situations, held responsible and often deactivated for Uber's poor management. All partners at Uber are viewed as a temporary necessity before they get their over ambitious goal of a self driving car.

What I find fascinating is that when they do get their automated fleet going, are they going to be able to turn a profit? Think about it, right now their business model relies on the *KEY* component of exploiting partners. Who are they going to blame with the automated cars? Who is going to keep the cars clean? How are they going to return cell phones and other lost items? How are they going to accommodate handicap and service dogs (animals)? How expensive will it be run and maintain automated vehicles? Frankly, I find it comical when partners and Uber alike expect all partners to follow all the rules and laws when Uber has broken so many, skirted the laws or rules and bribed their way into markets.

If the company is so poorly run now without the added expenses and responsibilities mentioned above, will it be successful without, and I emphasis; *the fall guy or punching bag, i.e. you?
*


hotlanta said:


> Guys, we all know about ignoring pings that are too far away. That's old news. This thread has a nicely narrow scope: once you have accepted a ping and spoken with the customer and learned the destination makes the fare a losing proposition, what then?


*Simple: "I regret to inform you that I cannot accept and fulfill this ride request at the current time."

Do not elaborate or answer questions and move on.

*


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## UubSaibot (Aug 27, 2016)

paulmsr said:


> i never invest a large amount of time to pickup a passenger, its ussually a losing proposition. 10 minutes or more away I let the ping time out, unless its a place I know the app is wrong on the time eta


Then you may have to cancel.


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## paulmsr (Jul 12, 2016)

UubSaibot said:


> Then you may have to cancel.


how so??


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

Open your door, pretend to throw up and ask them to cancel


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## UubSaibot (Aug 27, 2016)

paulmsr said:


> how so??


10-15 minutes away you get there and the PAX cancels before you can at least collect cancellation fee or you would have to cancel on them. Wasting gas, I agree with not accepting far away requests. Especially UberX. UberXL maybe, but not UberX.


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## paulmsr (Jul 12, 2016)

hence why i said i let it time out


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

I am a customer as well as a driver sometimes two three four times a day believe it or not, why, that's my personal business,

You get a real different perspective on all the bullshit driver games when you become a customer as well as a driver..


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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> And that's why I canceled knucklehead drivers at the four-minute fifty second Mark, if it doesn't look like you're actually making any effort to come get me,
> 
> I am a customer as well as a driver sometimes two three four times a day believe it or not, why, that's my personal business,
> 
> You get a real different perspective on all the bullshit driver games when you become a customer as well as a driver..


Wow, cool, PainFree. It would help me and many others to hear your thoughts and stories. Would you do or make a thread? Thinking something like "from a rider, driver" or "a rider who drives" But it would be of great help to me and others.

I know, your gonna catch a lot of "venting" (that cracks me up. freakin' quit if your life is so hard)

But would help the comunity, big time. Did you read the thread about the burnout in a driveway? Kinda' telling.

But anyway, please consider it.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Danny3xd said:


> Wow, cool, PainFree. It would help me and many others to hear your thoughts and stories. Would you do or make a thread? Thinking something like "from a rider, driver" or "a rider who drives" But it would be of great help to me and others.
> 
> I know, your gonna catch a lot of "venting" (that cracks me up. freakin' quit if your life is so hard)
> 
> ...


I actually deleted direct reply to you, my comment was to the trend


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Uber needs to find a middle ground. A good compromise might be to allow the driver to specify a maximum distance they will drive for a ping. Also since Uber usually knows the destination they should provide some information about how far away it is going, especially if the driver is driving over say 5 or 10 minutes to get the call.

Perhaps a dot somewhere with a color code:

Red = under 1 mile trip
Yellow = 1-3 mile trip
Green = 3-30 mile trip
Blue = 30+ mile trip

Then we can at least have some idea of what we are getting and whether it would be worth it.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

touberornottouber said:


> Uber needs to find a middle ground. A good compromise might be to allow the driver to specify a maximum distance they will drive for a ping. Also since Uber usually knows the destination they should provide some information about how far away it is going, especially if the driver is driving over say 5 or 10 minutes to get the call.
> 
> Perhaps a dot somewhere with a color code:
> 
> ...


Was an app allowed you to do all that it was called "Sidecar" but not many drivers signed up to drive for the service, so now is dead, So Cry Me a River..


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

touberornottouber said:


> Uber needs to find a middle ground. A good compromise might be to allow the driver to specify a maximum distance they will drive for a ping. Also since Uber usually knows the destination they should provide some information about how far away it is going, especially if the driver is driving over say 5 or 10 minutes to get the call.


Uber will do NOTHING to help drivers evaluate the profitability of a ride. If they did, drivers would be more selective and reject short trips. Short trip wait times would likely rise strongly and Uber cannot tolerate that. The Uber way is to just get more and more drivers with less and less info and hope driverless cars will arrive before they exhaust the supply of new drivers.


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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> Was an app allowed you to do all that it was called "Sidecar" but not many drivers signed up to drive for the service, so now is dead, So Cry Me a River..


I have great hopes for Juno. My only real request is for simpler. I drive x. They pay Y, sort of thing. I rally enjoy this gig but am not dependent on it so might have a different perspective than some folks.


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

I think Uber could change things in some markets... I understand obscuring the destination, many drivers might decline short trips or extra long trips depending... Which makes it harder for the Pax to get a ride, and it's back to being just as bad as trying to get a taxi to pick you up out of town... I think this made sense when Uber was new and there wasn't many drivers on the road.

However.... In markets with major driver oversaturation, I think this wouldn't be a problem anymore... Plenty of drivers scraping the bottle of the barrel which will happily take the min-fares because something is better than nothing... 

I think in driver saturated markets, Uber should be fully up front during the ping, it should show not only the time to the ping, but should also tell us the miles to the ping. It should also show the destination as well as the miles and time of the trip... At that point they can also give an estimate of what that ride will pay-out. This way during the ping, a driver could evaluate the full picture of the ride, and decide if it's one they want to take or not... If not, it rolls to the next driver... some newbie will probably end up taking it.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Uber has made the game what it is. When margins were better I took what I got and made it work well. I would get the occasional far ping for a mile or grocery store ping and I took them and smiled. For every one of those there were 3-4 that were great. At 1.50 a mile it wasn't hard. At .70 a mile I'm not doing it if it doesn't work for me. I only turn X on when I'm in the boonies and trying to re-position. I call and simply explain I'm headed towards wherever and are you going in that general vicinity. If they say no, I ask them where they are going and if it doesn't work, ask them to cancel. If they don't cancel I hit arrived even though I'm not, wait 5 and hit cancel as no show, I'm not taking a cancel for nothing. Very rarely do they wait that long. At the airport, I'll hop out and ask you where you are going, if it's in the opposite direction I ask you to cancel and get another, I'm not going to drive 20 miles out of my way to get home, sorry. What I don't do is explain the economics. If I do that and they offer me money to go through with it, you are setting yourself up to a complaint of demanded cash payment. We've seen stories of it here on the threads and it results in immediate deactivation. Doesn't matter that they offered, you are still screwed.

But even I have a tiny heart. I did make an exception once, got a soldier at RDU airport at 11PM returning to base in Fayetteville NC and there weren't a lot of other Ubers so I didn't want to strand him there Took him the 70 miles or so to the base and the young man 1 starred me because I had to drop him at the gate, couldn't go on base because I didn't have a pass/clearance. The old saying, let no good deed go unpunished. I still did the right thing so I'm good with it BUT the right thing is not losing money on a typical bargain seeker who doesn't care about you.


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

touberornottouber said:


> Perhaps a dot somewhere with a color code:
> 
> Red = under 1 mile trip
> Yellow = 1-3 mile trip
> ...


Instead of just the color code, Uber should be adding surge rates to long pick up locations.

After all if there are no drivers in the area but there are riders, isn't that the definition of surge pricing?


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Danny3xd said:


> Wow, cool, PainFree. It would help me and many others to hear your thoughts and stories. Would you do or make a thread? Thinking something like "from a rider, driver" or "a rider who drives" But it would be of great help to me and others.
> 
> I know, your gonna catch a lot of "venting" (that cracks me up. freakin' quit if your life is so hard)
> 
> ...


I have thought about writing a Blog about my experience as a Bandit taxi for a few years actual cab driver for 11 years for three major taxi companies and two mom-and-pop taxi companies and now my experiences as a Uber and Lyft driver,

If I told everything I know there will be a few pissed off taxi owners all the corruption all the dispatcher Paola,

I find it ironic actually I should say payback is a *****,

The public complaint for years that we taxi drivers would not drive an extra few miles to pick you up, we would not drive to a certain part of town, now that everybody and your mama is a glorified Taxi Driver now you complain about everything,

Let me paint you a picture, I want you to imagine it's around 2009 and you paid between $500 and $600 for Ford Crown Victoria that gets about 17 to 20 miles to a gallon if you're lucky, I had a few cars only going about 15 miles per gallon,

See the picture below the route shown is from Downtown Riverside Greyhound bus station to the center circle in Corona California,

Downtown Riverside Greyhound bus station is where most of the Yellow Taxi and Inland cab drivers posted up,

So imagine you're a taxi driver and it's about 8 o'clock at night and you see a open trip on your DDS for Corona, your dispatcher would not give you any information about the call, he/she probably doesn't have any and will not call the customer for you and will not give you the phone number,

You and six other drivers are posted up at Greyhound station but none of you will take the 17 Mile trip to do this trip without any information,

It's now 9 p.m. in the same open call shows up again in Corona, you been sitting for an hour without a trip so you decide what the hell I'll roll the dice and take it,

You arrive at the corona address a person comes out with Luggage in hand you politely get out and load the trunk you're thinking to yourself hell yeah I'm going to LAX,

Customer gets in and you ask where you headed to,

Customer says I'm headed to Corona Regional Hospital,

That hospital is about a half-mile from the pickup address, the passenger is a mother taking a change of clothes to her daughter,

Congratulations you just landed a taxi fare that earned you less than five bucks,

Now would you do you're not going to post up in Corona because Hardly anything ever happens there,

You can make the empty trip back maybe halfway to Tyler Galleria Mall,

You're not posted up at the Tyler Galleria Mall or maybe you went all the way back down Riverside to the Greyhound station it's now after 10:30 p.m. going on at 11 p.m. the only fare you've had in the last three hours has earned you a whopping five bucks..

Yes payback is a *****, now you all know what it feels like to be a taxi driver, I wonder how many of you call us taxi drivers a-holes now..


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

RussellP said:


> I think Uber could change things in some markets... I understand obscuring the destination, many drivers might decline short trips or extra long trips depending... Which makes it harder for the Pax to get a ride, and it's back to being just as bad as trying to get a taxi to pick you up out of town... I think this made sense when Uber was new and there wasn't many drivers on the road.
> 
> However.... In markets with major driver oversaturation, I think this wouldn't be a problem anymore... Plenty of drivers scraping the bottle of the barrel which will happily take the min-fares because something is better than nothing...
> 
> I think in driver saturated markets, Uber should be fully up front during the ping, it should show not only the time to the ping, but should also tell us the miles to the ping. It should also show the destination as well as the miles and time of the trip... At that point they can also give an estimate of what that ride will pay-out. This way during the ping, a driver could evaluate the full picture of the ride, and decide if it's one they want to take or not... If not, it rolls to the next driver... some newbie will probably end up taking it.


But then you have the problem that no driver would take a terrible ride. Maybe show more information to drivers There have close to a 0% cancellation rate.


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

TheWanderer said:


> But then you have the problem that no driver would take a terrible ride. Maybe show more information to drivers There have close to a 0% cancellation rate.


Well maybe terrible riders don't deserve to be picked up . They can always call a cab.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Go4 said:


> Instead of just the color code, Uber should be adding surge rates to long pick up locations.
> 
> After all if there are no drivers in the area but there are riders, isn't that the definition of surge pricing?


 as a customer I'm not going to pay you a surge multiplier every time you pick me up because you don't want to drive more than seven minutes to get me,

If it is a short trip and only if it is a short trip I'm willing to pay you maybe two extra dollars so that you get $5.20 instead of $3.20,

One of the reasons that I use Uber now is it go from Fontana to San Manuel Casino and back, that is not a short trip I'm not going to pay extra or surge price Fare because you don't wish to drive 7 + minutes to pick me up


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Uber has made the game what it is. When margins were better I took what I got and made it work well. I would get the occasional far ping for a mile or grocery store ping and I took them and smiled. For every one of those there were 3-4 that were great. At 1.50 a mile it wasn't hard. At .70 a mile I'm not doing it if it doesn't work for me. I only turn X on when I'm in the boonies and trying to re-position. I call and simply explain I'm headed towards wherever and are you going in that general vicinity. If they say no, I ask them where they are going and if it doesn't work, ask them to cancel. If they don't cancel I hit arrived even though I'm not, wait 5 and hit cancel as no show, I'm not taking a cancel for nothing. Very rarely do they wait that long. At the airport, I'll hop out and ask you where you are going, if it's in the opposite direction I ask you to cancel and get another, I'm not going to drive 20 miles out of my way to get home, sorry. What I don't do is explain the economics. If I do that and they offer me money to go through with it, you are setting yourself up to a complaint of demanded cash payment. We've seen stories of it here on the threads and it results in immediate deactivation. Doesn't matter that they offered, you are still screwed.
> 
> But even I have a tiny heart. I did make an exception once, got a soldier at RDU airport at 11PM returning to base in Fayetteville NC and there weren't a lot of other Ubers so I didn't want to strand him there Took him the 70 miles or so to the base and the young man 1 starred me because I had to drop him at the gate, couldn't go on base because I didn't have a pass/clearance. The old saying, let no good deed go unpunished. I still did the right thing so I'm good with it BUT the right thing is not losing money on a typical bargain seeker who doesn't care about you.


You are right about setting yourself up for a bad rating or complaint if you cancel based on the profitability on that ride. If they try to compensate you for that ride, most likely they are going to report and complain. The couple times that I did agree to drive them after explaining the ego comics behind it, I ultimately took them anyways because it would be slow anyways and feel bad. But they tipped me every time after the ride because that guilt tripped them.
For the most part I will explain the economics behind it and assure them another driver would be happy to take that ride, even if they say they would give me extra, not worth it lol.
Unfortunately in the market I drive in, the consumers know driver tricks when it comes to airports. I think about 40% of airport rides have an incoming call regarding destination. I call up occasionally at Dr airport and they do not mention the destination even after I ask them or try to bring it up organically.


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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

I really like that idea, T Wonderer. And would be a carrot and motivate.


TheWanderer said:


> But then you have the problem that no driver would take a terrible ride. Maybe show more information to drivers There have close to a 0% cancellation rate.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

RussellP said:


> Well maybe terrible riders don't deserve to be picked up . They can always call a cab.


What I meant was rides that are not profitable. I am sure you maintain a very low cancellation rate vs drivers like me that hover around 10%. I would cancel based on a far destination, along with other drivers. But you seeing the destination when you accept the request because you cancel infrequently. Maybe drivers that do cancel more often would not cancel on rides of they knew they could see the destination. Like you get 5 free cancellations a week, but if you cancel more than that in the current week you do not have that option the week after.


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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> I have thought about writing a Blog about my experience as a Bandit taxi for a few years actual cab driver for 11 years for three major taxi companies and two mom-and-pop taxi companies and now my experiences as a Uber and Lyft driver,
> 
> If I told everything I know there will be a few pissed off taxi owners all the corruption all the dispatcher Paola,
> 
> ...





painfreepc said:


> I have thought about writing a Blog about my experience as a Bandit taxi for a few years actual cab driver for 11 years for three major taxi companies and two mom-and-pop taxi companies and now my experiences as a Uber and Lyft driver,
> 
> If I told everything I know there will be a few pissed off taxi owners all the corruption all the dispatcher Paola,
> 
> ...


Ayup. That would be a bummer.


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## paulmsr (Jul 12, 2016)

im amazed PAX havent complained yet at airports about drivers refusing to take shorter rides, at least in Philly, cherry picking at PHL is one of the things that can get a driver deactivated immediately.


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## ToughTommy (Feb 26, 2016)

Haven't heard anyone comment on if there is a surge that is at weekend bar closing time in which you probably only have one shot at a nice ride. Do you take a minimum ride at 3X if you call passenger or do you cancel waiting for a longer one. I am fortunate in that my mile rate is about the highest in the country so a 3 mile ride versus a twenty at 3X in my market is the difference between a net of 20$ versus $100. Both are profitable but having made wrong decisions I have no issue letting someone take a cancel from me. Someone else gets it . To me 100 is profitable and 20 to me when it's a once a week surge is not


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

painfreepc said:


> as a customer I'm not going to pay you a surge multiplier every time you pick me up because you don't want to drive more than seven minutes to get me,


Good for you, stand up for your right to NOT pay a fair market value for your ride. Where I live, a 15 min destination drive to get the first pax is not uncommon. I think they SHOULD pay a surge. And I think you should be taking a bus.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

paulmsr said:


> im amazed PAX havent complained yet at airports about drivers refusing to take shorter rides, at least in Philly, cherry picking at PHL is one of the things that can get a driver deactivated immediately.


I think that is every airport. At sfo it is as well.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Go4 said:


> Good for you, stand up for your right to NOT pay a fair market value for your ride. Where I live, a 15 min destination drive to get the first pax is not uncommon. I think they SHOULD pay a surge. And I think you should be taking a bus.


I already stated I will pay an additional $2 on short fare, would you like a gold coin, if you don't like being in the hospitality business go flip a burger..


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

painfreepc said:


> I already stated I will pay an additional $2 on short fare, would you like a gold coin, if you don't like being in the hospitality business go flip a burger..


Flipping burgers is part of the hospitality business too.

I think people just don't like to lose money on a fare. They might be able to be coaxed into it for a little while, but that is not an indefinite situation.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

tommytoughnuts said:


> Haven't heard anyone comment on if there is a surge that is at weekend bar closing time in which you probably only have one shot at a nice ride. Do you take a minimum ride at 3X if you call passenger or do you cancel waiting for a longer one. I am fortunate in that my mile rate is about the highest in the country so a 3 mile ride versus a twenty at 3X in my market is the difference between a net of 20$ versus $100. Both are profitable but having made wrong decisions I have no issue letting someone take a cancel from me. Someone else gets it . To me 100 is profitable and 20 to me when it's a once a week surge is not


I am a mercenary when it comes to this. At bar close if you give me any reason to, I will cancel on you in a second. I need to get a good fish, no time for games. If I accept a 2.5X surge and the multiplier goes up to 3.5, if I'm far away or your boots aren't at the curb already, I will cancel and grab a higher multiplier. Saturday night and after an event are the only times I will cancel with reckless disregard. It's also the only chance I have these days to make real money.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

A year ago when I started it used to be rare to even be able to get a ping more than 10 min away. If there were no cars within that distance you would get a "no UberX available" message., which would create surge if it stayed long enough. Later on they increased the distance from which you could be pinged, and pings over 10 and 15 min became more common. This reduced the no cars available instances even when there weren't nearby cars. 

Funny thing is the ping radius for XL is shorter even though there are fewer of us, and even though these are rides drivers are more willing to drive further to. I've seen my car be available up to 20 min out on X but the same car be unavailable on XL from the same distance. Up in Big Bear I've seen an X car be "available" up to 60 min out.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

hulksmash said:


> A year ago when I started it used to be rare to even be able to get a ping more than 10 min away. If there were no cars within that distance you would get a "no UberX available" message., which would create surge if it stayed long enough. Later on they increased the distance from which you could be pinged, and pings over 10 and 15 min became more common. This reduced the no cars available instances even when there weren't nearby cars.
> 
> Funny thing is the ping radius for XL is shorter even though there are fewer of us, and even though these are rides drivers are more willing to drive further to. I've seen my car be available up to 20 min out on X but the same car be unavailable on XL from the same distance. Up in Big Bear I've seen an X car be "available" up to 60 min out.


I see you live in the Inland Empire as I do, I live in Fontana right in the eye of the 210 Freeway the 215 freeway the I-10 freeway in the I-15 Freeway,

Uber first started back in mid-2014, I could not see Uber cars West of the 15 freeway no possibility to ping a car at Victoria Gardens,

now when I request a trip I can see cars going up and down the 15 freeway,
I ping drivers over 30 minutes away, God damn ridiculous..


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

RussellP said:


> I think Uber could change things in some markets... I understand obscuring the destination, many drivers might decline short trips or extra long trips depending... Which makes it harder for the Pax to get a ride, and it's back to being just as bad as trying to get a taxi to pick you up out of town... I think this made sense when Uber was new and there wasn't many drivers on the road.
> 
> However.... In markets with major driver oversaturation, I think this wouldn't be a problem anymore... Plenty of drivers scraping the bottle of the barrel which will happily take the min-fares because something is better than nothing...
> 
> I think in driver saturated markets, Uber should be fully up front during the ping, it should show not only the time to the ping, but should also tell us the miles to the ping. It should also show the destination as well as the miles and time of the trip... At that point they can also give an estimate of what that ride will pay-out. This way during the ping, a driver could evaluate the full picture of the ride, and decide if it's one they want to take or not... If not, it rolls to the next driver... some newbie will probably end up taking it.


Yes, my market is very saturated. It's about $5 per hour gross here with about 1 ping per hour. I'd love it if other drivers refused the short trips. As long as I am reasonably close I would take every single one that I could. Those $4 or $5 trips would add up.


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

painfreepc said:


> I ping drivers over 30 minutes away, God damn ridiculous..


I agree this is ridiculous, pax that far away should pay surge multiplier. But I would edit 30 minutes to 15 mins. Other than that I agree.

If pax (painfree) doesn't agree, see if he can a friend or relative to drive him for what the driver earns (not the Uber fare the lesser amount of what the driver gets.) I would bet he would end up sitting at home with his cats a lot more often than going where he wants to go.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Go4 said:


> I agree this is ridiculous, pax that far away should pay surge multiplier. But I would edit 30 minutes to 15 mins. Other than that I agree.
> 
> If pax (painfree) doesn't agree, see if he can a friend or relative to drive him for what the driver earns (not the Uber fare the lesser amount of what the driver gets.) I would bet he would end up sitting at home with his cats a lot more often than going where he wants to go.


In the non Uber world a decent guy asking a friend to pick him up from 15 min and go about 2-3 miles out would give $5-$10 "just for gas money". We are working for hire and not doing favors yet we get $3.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> I see you live in the Inland Empire as I do, I live in Fontana right in the eye of the 210 Freeway the 215 freeway the I-10 freeway in the I-15 Freeway,
> 
> Uber first started back in mid-2014, I could not see Uber cars West of the 15 freeway no possibility to ping a car at Victoria Gardens,
> 
> ...


It shows greed on Ubers part that they would expect or even hope drivers go that far to pick up pax without additional compensation. Many pax just cancel when they see how far it is. Uber would tell you its to not discriminate against pax in remote areas by making them pay more, the reality is they just want all rides covered regardless of the drivers expenses, and they know there are plenty of ants that will do it.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Go4 said:


> I agree this is ridiculous, pax that far away should pay surge multiplier. But I would edit 30 minutes to 15 mins. Other than that I agree.
> .


In the cab business, short trips in the boondocks had to wait until a cab was in their area for someone to go out and get them- they didn't pay any more than anyone else.

However, if the customer needed to get to the airport, or other decent length trip, the dispatcher would advertise that fact to the drivers.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

hulksmash said:


> It shows greed on Ubers part that they would expect or even hope drivers go that far to pick up pax without additional compensation.


I think the unreasonable expectation is that they want or expect to get this kind of trip covered immediately.

For all the passenger knows, or Uber knows for that matter, there might be a driver right around the corner, no matter how far out in the sticks the passenger is.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> I am a customer as well as a driver sometimes two three four times a day believe it or not, why, that's my personal business,
> 
> You get a real different perspective on all the bullshit driver games when you become a customer as well as a driver..


You get a different perspective on all the bullshit that uber drivers have to go through because of the games and shit uber the company has done when you become both a customer and driver.

I too am a customer... Us as a consumer do not have to deal with the games that drivers put us through. If the driver is drivibg away from you, you have 5 minutes to cancel. If they drive away, I cancel and get a new one, easy solution. If I take an uber super far, I call up my driver preemptively to ask if he/she is ok to drive far, if not I cancel and get a new one, another easy solution. If you see a driver drive away because it is surging, we know how often the surge refreshes and there is another service. When my driver is driving away from me because it is surging somewhere else, I call a lyft, another easy solution. I know that more drivers on lyft are more loyal to the company, so it does not happen as often.

Like I said, I am a consumer and driver. We have 5 minutes to cancel freely, use it.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

TheWanderer said:


> You get a different perspective on all the bullshit that uber drivers have to go through because of the games and shit uber the company has done when you become both a customer and driver.
> 
> I too am a customer... Us as a consumer do not have to deal with the games that drivers put us through. If the driver is drivibg away from you, you have 5 minutes to cancel. If they drive away, I cancel and get a new one, easy solution. If I take an uber super far, I call up my driver preemptively to ask if he/she is ok to drive far, if not I cancel and get a new one, another easy solution. If you see a driver drive away because it is surging, we know how often the surge refreshes and there is another service. When my driver is driving away from me because it is surging somewhere else, I call a lyft, another easy solution. I know that more drivers on lyft are more loyal to the company, so it does not happen as often.
> 
> Like I said, I am a consumer and driver. We have 5 minutes to cancel freely, use it.


I do all of that and more,

I ordered an uber for my girlfriend a few weeks ago, I'm looking at the car on my app on route to pick up my girlfriend,

the driver's car was moving so fast on my app I thought maybe it was the Batman rocket car coming to going to get her,

I couldn't cancel the driver fast enough I did not want some Speed Demon picking up my girlfriend..


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> I do all of that and more,
> 
> I ordered an uber for my girlfriend a few weeks ago, I'm looking at the car on my app on route to pick up my girlfriend,
> 
> ...


If you see the car sitting still for a long time and then all of a sudden speed up it could be that the app is lagging and is catching up to the drivers location


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I think the unreasonable expectation is that they want or expect to get this kind of trip covered immediately.
> 
> For all the passenger knows, or Uber knows for that matter, there might be a driver right around the corner, no matter how far out in the sticks the passenger is.


The pax can see where the nearest drivers are before ordering and can then see how far the driver that gets the request is . I would hope a pax would not make a driver come from far unless they really needed a ride quickly and is in a place where it's hard to get Ubers


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## PCH5150 (Jan 13, 2017)

hulksmash said:


> The pax can see where the nearest drivers are before ordering and can then see how far the driver that gets the request is . I would hope a pax would not make a driver come from far unless they really needed a ride quickly and is in a place where it's hard to get Ubers


I doubt any pax cares in the slightest how far we come. Customers are not considerate like that.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Danny3xd said:


> I have great hopes for Juno. My only real request is for simpler. I drive x. They pay Y, sort of thing. I rally enjoy this gig but am not dependent on it so might have a different perspective than some folks.


Juno hasn't been successful in NY I am amazed you think it will make it your market


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

hulksmash said:


> The pax can see where the nearest drivers are before ordering and can then see how far the driver that gets the request is .


Just because a driver is closest to the passenger, doesn't mean that the driver is the most appropriate to pick him up.

A driver who is further away, but heading toward the customer- either with another patron or returning to the city after dropping one off further away could be the most appropriate driver to pick them up.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> as a customer I'm not going to pay you a surge multiplier every time you pick me up because you don't want to drive more than seven minutes to get me,
> 
> If it is a short trip and only if it is a short trip I'm willing to pay you maybe two extra dollars so that you get $5.20 instead of $3.20,
> 
> One of the reasons that I use Uber now is it go from Fontana to San Manuel Casino and back, that is not a short trip I'm not going to pay extra or surge price Fare because you don't wish to drive 7 + minutes to pick me up


Ok. So not a surge, but a surcharge based on distance? An additional $2 for each 5 minutes away over 10? $2 gor 10-14, $4 for 15-19, etc.? With a notice that this is happening (after you get pinged around to verify the situation, of course), and your choice to accept or not? And with 1/2 that surcharge added to the cancellation rate, if applicable?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> I do all of that and more,
> 
> I ordered an uber for my girlfriend a few weeks ago, I'm looking at the car on my app on route to pick up my girlfriend,
> 
> ...


There are also a lot of drivers that will hustle to get to a customer, and then slow down when the customer is in the car. You cut down on your dead time, if not miles. The faster you get to the customer, even if you do slow down to actually deliver them to their destination, the faster you become available to get your next customer.


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