# Proof that Uber disables Surge



## RideshareGuru

This is a screenshot from the client app in the middle of Nashville (where all of the bars are) at 1:35AM on 12/2, as you can see, "No UberX Available" and also no surge pricing. By what Uber says, there should be surge to attract more drivers, yet there is none, what about their claims of surge being automatic? Uber disables surge for most of the week so that they can ramp it up on Saturdays when they get the biggest bang for the buck and can claim to municipalities that surge only occurs 5% of the time. All the while shafting drivers with artificially low rates and forcing the poor schmucks who choose to drive during these times with longer drive times to their pings.


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## UberSonic

Surge is about more than just lack of drivers. It is also based on the number of riders with the app in the second stage of requesting a ride (the screen that has fare quote, etc.). The driver app might be showing that area as yellow or orange at this point, on the verge of going surge if more riders start requesting.


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## Sydney Uber

RideshareGuru said:


> View attachment 2733
> 
> This is a screenshot from the client app in the middle of Nashville (where all of the bars are) at 1:35AM on 12/2, as you can see, "No UberX Available" and also no surge pricing. By what Uber says, there should be surge to attract more drivers, yet there is none, what about their claims of surge being automatic? Uber disables surge for most of the week so that they can ramp it up on Saturdays when they get the biggest bang for the buck and can claim to municipalities that surge only occurs 5% of the time. All the while shafting drivers with artificially low rates and forcing the poor schmucks who choose to drive during these times with longer drive times to their pings.


Uber is not for drivers to do well at. It's their toy, they use it the way they like, to profit them first and foremost - we all need to get used to that.


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## RideshareGuru

UberSonic said:


> Surge is about more than just lack of drivers. It is also based on the number of riders with the app in the second stage of requesting a ride (the screen that has fare quote, etc.). The driver app might be showing that area as yellow or orange at this point, on the verge of going surge if more riders start requesting.


At 1:30AM, trust me, there is plenty of demand. Surge happens on a Saturday when there are several drivers available. On Halloween with 6x surge, nashville never ran out of drivers. It is not automatic as they claim it is, they can and do disable it and set maximum surge factors. And plus that, you can't get to the 2nd screen if there is no uber x available, so your excuse for them holds no water.


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## Uber Driver 007

I didn't realize it was a secret that Uber disables surge pricing for certain areas / times. They know they can't overwhelm riders with 24x7 surges due to low availability. One example is when they launch in a new market, they won't do surge pricing for first few weeks until the locals are comfortable with the Uber name.


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## RideshareGuru

Uber Driver 007 said:


> I didn't realize it was a secret that Uber disables surge pricing for certain areas / times. They know they can't overwhelm riders with 24x7 surges due to low availability. One example is when they launch in a new market, they won't do surge pricing for first few weeks until the locals are comfortable with the Uber name.


They have sent out emails to drivers telling them the "good news" that surge is now automatic and dynamic. They even refer to it as "dynamic pricing". They also turn surge on when there is no reason to and tell the pax that "it's busy now", so they need to attract more drivers. The point being is that both sides are being lied to and it makes it even more apparent that their base prices are woefully inadequate. One could argue if surge was truly dynamic and automated, that the high times would make up for the low times, but if Uber arbitrarily enables and disables surge and changes the maximum settings on a whim, then that argument goes out the window. Uber is just throttling back the amount of surge along with the prices to see what the pax response is and how many drivers they can keep on the road at the ridiculously low rates.


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## UberLuxbod

If they set the rates at the correct level for the market they would not have to use Surge.

They are just unwilling to admit that Surge is a stupid idea


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## RideshareGuru

UberLuxbod said:


> If they set the rates at the correct level for the market they would not have to use Surge.
> 
> They are just unwilling to admit that Surge is a stupid idea


I think it is a good idea in theory for big events such as new years or 4th of July when demand will overwhelm supply and trips will necessarily take much longer to complete due to traffic and road closures. But i agree that rates are artificially low and that with proper rates, surge would be extremely rare.


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## UberLuxbod

As proved every week in London.

UberLux rarely Surges.

X Surges all the time


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## Oscar Levant

In my city, Uber is $1.25 per mile. In my view, that's too low to be sustainable. I wish the rate were $2 a mile, and no surge. For me, if the heat
map is red for an adjacent zone, that's enough incentive for me to go there, I don't need a surge price. 
All surge does is cause people to wait until the surge is over. I find this 
happening a lot more now, people are onto the fact that all they have to do is wait 10 minutes, and the surge is off then they request. 
Often now, I'm seeing trips occurring right after the surge stops. 

Mindful that cabs are about $3 a mile, if Uber were $2 a mile, it would still be way cheaper. I dont know
why they don't do this. I was doing fine when it was $2 a mile, when I started, a year ago. Now I'm having a much rougher time of it.


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## Steve French

Oscar Levant said:


> In my city, Uber is $1.25 per mile. In my view, that's too low to be sustainable. I wish the rate were $2 a mile, and no surge. For me, if the heat
> map is red for an adjacent zone, that's enough incentive for me to go there, I don't need a surge price.
> All surge does is cause people to wait until the surge is over. I find this
> happening a lot more now, people are onto the fact that all they have to do is wait 10 minutes, and the surge is off then they request.
> Often now, I'm seeing trips occurring right after the surge stops.
> 
> Mindful that cabs are about $3 a mile, if Uber were $2 a mile, it would still be way cheaper. I dont know
> why they don't do this. I was doing fine when it was $2 a mile, when I started, a year ago. Now I'm having a much rougher time of it.


My feelings exactly. The surge just pisses off the pax that use it. They should just raise the regular rates to a reasonable rate, and when a surge is needed, maybe up to 2x surge max. People get so pissed off that it costs $15 one way, then $75 back.


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## UberSonic

RideshareGuru said:


> And plus that, you can't get to the 2nd screen if there is no uber x available, so your excuse for them holds no water.


You can actually go on to the second screen when it says "No drivers available." You can even go ahead and request a ride, at which point your phone will continue to ping for a driver until one becomes available. That metric of number of riders on that second screen is one of the factors that Uber uses in determining surge levels.

There was one time that I had that kind of ping. It was in the outskirts of town after I had just done a 2am bar dropoff nearby. I go back online and immediately get a ping for a bar even further out. They had initiated their driver request some time before, and just left the app requesting. It doesn't time out. They had started walking home after requesting, so I got to have fun trying to find them when their pin was still at the bar they left.


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## newsboy559

RideshareGuru said:


> And plus that, you can't get to the 2nd screen if there is no uber x available, so your excuse for them holds no water.


That's not accurate. You can make a full request despite the pin saying "No UberX available." If there is a driver logged on outside the radius in which the app shows cars, it will still send the request to that driver. It's happened to me before, in which I promptly canceled the request after making contact with the pax to let him know I was clear out in the suburbs.


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## RideshareGuru

newsboy559 said:


> That's not accurate. You can make a full request despite the pin saying "No UberX available." If there is a driver logged on outside the radius in which the app shows cars, it will still send the request to that driver. It's happened to me before, in which I promptly canceled the request after making contact with the pax to let him know I was clear out in the suburbs.


Yet another driver friendly feature, lol, take this ride from 30 minutes away at 1x or be deactivated for acceptance rating.


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## Yougottabekiddingme!

It's a Joke, fix it


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## ghostofdocj

I never go for the surges. Because when one comes up near an area I'm at, that tells me that a lot of cars are going to fill up in very quickly. Surges (especially 3x and above) are too much of a "hit and miss". Besides even if you get a 6x or 7c and a fare exceeding a couple hundred dollars, you know you're going to have a disgruntled pax on your hands.


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## Actionjax

Oscar Levant said:


> In my city, Uber is $1.25 per mile. In my view, that's too low to be sustainable. I wish the rate were $2 a mile, and no surge. For me, if the heat
> map is red for an adjacent zone, that's enough incentive for me to go there, I don't need a surge price.
> All surge does is cause people to wait until the surge is over. I find this
> happening a lot more now, people are onto the fact that all they have to do is wait 10 minutes, and the surge is off then they request.
> Often now, I'm seeing trips occurring right after the surge stops.
> 
> Mindful that cabs are about $3 a mile, if Uber were $2 a mile, it would still be way cheaper. I dont know
> why they don't do this. I was doing fine when it was $2 a mile, when I started, a year ago. Now I'm having a much rougher time of it.


My thoughts exactly. When we get surges every morning they start about 2.1X and there are no pings out there. People will just hall down a cab on the street. It's cheaper and faster. At 1.5X people wait it out for the most part but it's still cheaper than a cab. Surge drops of in n area then whamo...the phone pings off the hook.

Surge has ben the best thing for cabs around here during the rush hour. Even 1.1x surge gets people to hold off. They just think surge is gouging and don't factor in the real cost. They are fighting back on Uber for surges. Even if they don't understand it. It would be better just to raise the rates.


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## Dierwolf

I think the surge part of the app is buggy anyway, in my city the airport closes at 10:30 pm but at 1:00am to 2:00am the airport goes orange, even though no one is there.


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## UberXTampa

Dierwolf said:


> I think the surge part of the app is buggy anyway, in my city the airport closes at 10:30 pm but at 1:00am to 2:00am the airport goes orange, even though no one is there.


Ditto for TPA. At 12:30 most flight have already arrived and the airport is handed to the Janitors to run naked in it! Noone is there unless there is an extraordinarily late flight. Yet, most of the time the airport shows brownish. When I had drop off's at St. Pete and coming over Howard Franklin, I decided to stop by the airport cell phone parking area for a couple minutes. immediately the color changed. but no pings. Happened multiple times. My theory is, Uber wants to have a car at the airport at all time, just in case!


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## newsboy559

Dierwolf said:


> I think the surge part of the app is buggy anyway, in my city the airport closes at 10:30 pm but at 1:00am to 2:00am the airport goes orange, even though no one is there.


Does the same thing here in Wichita. Although our airport doesn't close, per se, there are no flights in our out after 11:00 p.m. However, every night, the airport turns yellow or orange around 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. It never surges, but it turns colors that, according to Uber, are supposed to indicate people have the app open in that area, but just aren't ready to make a request yet. BS... there's nobody at our airport during this time... ever.


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## Huberis

I tend to like working two twelve hour days and then two eight or nine hour shifts during the busy season. I work the same hours during the slow season, but I don't tend to like it as much. Surge pricing would drive me crazy, make me anxious. It's too Pavlovian for my taste. My guess is that the surge is an example of being ****ed with, the promise of hitting the surge just right doesn't seem much different than sitting down on front of a slot machine. It would be far better to simply have rates set at a reasonable rate and be done with it. Far better, for both sides.


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## newsboy559

Huberis said:


> I tend to like working two twelve hour days and then two eight or nine hour shifts during the busy season. I work the same hours during the slow season, but I don't tend to like it as much. Surge pricing would drive me crazy, make me anxious. It's too Pavlovian for my taste. My guess is that the surge is an example of being ****ed with, the promise of hitting the surge just right doesn't seem much different than sitting down on front of a slot machine. It would be far better to simply have rates set at a reasonable rate and be done with it. Far better, for both sides.


Agree with you, to an extent. I like the surge idea, but I think it should be capped at, say, 3X the normal rate. Part of the reason for surge, theoretically, is that the driver is likely going to have to drive a longer distance to get to the pax because there are fewer druvers available. He should be compensated for that. With Uber, the driver is accepting all costs and expenses. Taxi drivers just pay a flat fee to lease their vehicle.


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## Nate Sullivan

Dierwolf said:


> I think the surge part of the app is buggy anyway, in my city the airport closes at 10:30 pm but at 1:00am to 2:00am the airport goes orange, even though no one is there.


Does the same in Austin late at night. I have never bothered to check it out, but now that I have heard it does that in every town with an airport I certainly never will. What a weird quirk.


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## billdozer

Nate Sullivan said:


> Does the same in Austin late at night. I have never bothered to check it out, but now that I have heard it does that in every town with an airport I certainly never will. What a weird quirk.


employees


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## Cheap no tip XRiders

UberLuxbod said:


> If they set the rates at the correct level for the market they would not have to use Surge.
> 
> They are just unwilling to admit that Surge is a stupid idea


Yep, you are correct. A pax said to me "...the 'surge' pricing model pisses people off." They (the paxs) will simply wait for the surge to dissipate, and then order a ride at the cheap-ass rate.


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## stuber

I believe the entire surge "algorithm" is fake. There's no automatic process. There's no programming. 

No, instead, there's just a local manager randomly pushing a button that says " Surge" and then twisting a dial to regulate the amount. " Let's see, how 'bout a nice easy 1.5? No, let's do 1.75."

Great. "Cool... look at all the little cars moving around."

You don't believe me? You'll never get proof from UBER that the surge is legit. Everything is secret with them. If there's ever an IPO, I bet they drop the surge pricing, rather than have to explain how it actually works.


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## Cooluberdriver

Oscar Levant said:


> In my city, Uber is $1.25 per mile. In my view, that's too low to be sustainable. I wish the rate were $2 a mile, and no surge. For me, if the heat
> map is red for an adjacent zone, that's enough incentive for me to go there, I don't need a surge price.
> All surge does is cause people to wait until the surge is over. I find this
> happening a lot more now, people are onto the fact that all they have to do is wait 10 minutes, and the surge is off then they request.
> Often now, I'm seeing trips occurring right after the surge stops.
> 
> Mindful that cabs are about $3 a mile, if Uber were $2 a mile, it would still be way cheaper. I dont know
> why they don't do this. I was doing fine when it was $2 a mile, when I started, a year ago. Now I'm having a much rougher time of it.


Atlanta is still 95cents, and black never surges anymore.


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## naplestom75

The problem with Uber is computers can't make judgement calls. So there are many loopholes where they should be charging higher prices based on subjective factors, but they do not. It is what it is. I am also in a new area for them, so they are very stingy on surges, because they are trying to get as many people on to using it as possible. Understandable. But it will also hinder their growth at the same time, because drivers are starting to duck out during regular times, because the regular rates are not enough to make money. It's a double edged sword.


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## KGB7

I think Uber is playing Devils Advocate.

Tonight(monday), for the first time in 3 weeks of driving, i saw a high surge x2.6 in the worst part of Wash DC SE at 10pm. Anyone that knows anything about South East, is not going to drive there late at night.

I have taken PAX to SE from NW, because PAX was visiting the nicer part of DC, but im not picking up people from SE.


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## naplestom75

luberdriver, post: 263090, member: 5474"]Atlanta is still 95cents, and black never surges anymore.[/QUOTE]
The surge is ******ed and 1.25 is not an adequate rate. Haven't been driving much lately


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## JaguaGirl

KGB7 said:


> I think Uber is playing Devils Advocate.
> 
> Tonight(monday), for the first time in 3 weeks of driving, i saw a high surge x2.6 in the worst part of Wash DC SE at 10pm. Anyone that knows anything about South East, is not going to drive there late at night.
> 
> I have taken PAX to SE from NW, because PAX was visiting the nicer part of DC, but im not picking up people from SE.


You're not serious, right??? Sounding like a cabbie for sure. Condemning all people in an entire quadrant of the city based on a small percentage of "badness" sounds productive....NOT. You do realize SE, DC stretches from The National's Stadium thru the Navy Yard to Capitol Hill, Eastern Market & Hillcrest??? All very affluent parts of the city. Hmmmm....


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## Lidman

don't forget about the white house.


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## Ms.Doe

Huberis said:


> . . . Surge pricing would drive me crazy, make me anxious. It's too Pavlovian for my taste. . .


Duh! What about the pings?!


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## Huberis

Ms.Doe said:


> Duh! What about the pings?!
> 
> View attachment 58556


I don't drive TNC at all. Never have.


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## stuber

Huberis said:


> I tend to like working two twelve hour days and then two eight or nine hour shifts during the busy season. I work the same hours during the slow season, but I don't tend to like it as much. Surge pricing would drive me crazy, make me anxious. It's too Pavlovian for my taste. My guess is that the surge is an example of being &%[email protected]!*ed with, the promise of hitting the surge just right doesn't seem much different than sitting down on front of a slot machine. It would be far better to simply have rates set at a reasonable rate and be done with it. Far better, for both sides.


I agree. But (big but) the SURGE works in my favor (as someone doesn't use Uber) because it's gives me a edge over the Uber competition. My pricing is predictable. People like that. Oftentimes my charter rate (hourly rate with wait time) works out cheaper for people who would otherwise face SURGE pricing at the end of a popular event like a concert or football game..


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## stuber

SURGE is unquestionably a completely made up calculation. It could be a good concept though, if drivers could set their own rates based on observable real time market demand. Auction style, ala EBay.

Uber won't be instituting that any time soon. But...that's where this business has to go eventually.


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## Cord P

RideshareGuru said:


> View attachment 2733
> 
> This is a screenshot from the client app in the middle of Nashville (where all of the bars are) at 1:35AM on 12/2, as you can see, "No UberX Available" and also no surge pricing. By what Uber says, there should be surge to attract more drivers, yet there is none, what about their claims of surge being automatic? Uber disables surge for most of the week so that they can ramp it up on Saturdays when they get the biggest bang for the buck and can claim to municipalities that surge only occurs 5% of the time. All the while shafting drivers with artificially low rates and forcing the poor schmucks who choose to drive during these times with longer drive times to their pings.


I refuse to work nights!! FUQ them!!


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## UberXTampa

People are flooding out of the game from raymond James stadium right now. Yet, there is no surge anywhere. And this happens right when there is a huge storm around the area.


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## stuber

ALGORITHM is a guy somewhere in a room who periodically pushes a button called SURGE, then adjusts a volume dial graduated in tenths. "Hmmm, let's see, let's go with a 1.7, he mutters to the war room map."

That's the complex science. Why would you expect anything else?


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## autofill

You guys are missing the new change uber made with upfront pricing. You'll no longer see the surge lightning bolt when it's surging. This way, both drivers and pax are fooled on how much of a surge price it is.


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## stuber

autofill said:


> You guys are missing the new change uber made with upfront pricing. You'll no longer see the surge lightning bolt when it's surging. This way, both drivers and pax are fooled on how much of a surge price it is.


"Fooled" being the key word.


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## stuber

stuber said:


> "Fooled" being the key word.


I think the logo rebranding was born out of a similar motivation. The original logo now has such negative associations that the marketing geniuses at corporate felt the need to disguise their own identity.


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## Gordiano

Dierwolf said:


> I think the surge part of the app is buggy anyway, in my city the airport closes at 10:30 pm but at 1:00am to 2:00am the airport goes orange, even though no one is there.


That's funny, where I am, the airport is always out of surge zone..... go figure. Total bs.


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## Gordiano

Huberis said:


> I tend to like working two twelve hour days and then two eight or nine hour shifts during the busy season. I work the same hours during the slow season, but I don't tend to like it as much. Surge pricing would drive me crazy, make me anxious. It's too Pavlovian for my taste. My guess is that the surge is an example of being &%[email protected]!*ed with, the promise of hitting the surge just right doesn't seem much different than sitting down on front of a slot machine. * It would be far better to simply have rates set at a reasonable rate and be done with it. Far better, for both sides*.


Amen!


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## stuber

Gordiano said:


> That's funny, where I am, the airport is always out of surge zone..... go figure. Total bs.


If your airport never surges, it's because your helpful local Uber has disabled SURGE inside the geo fence. Customers love this. Your feelings about this are irrelevant. Remember, you're a tool for the benefit of passengers and the enrichment of Uber. Isn't that fantastic?


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## 14gIV

thread date: Dec 2014
topic: whining about no surgey

lol back at 2014 rates its like you lemmings were getting a 3x surgey compared to todays rates

hehehe


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## brendon292

Steve French said:


> People get so pissed off that it costs $15 one way, then $75 back.


You're right, they definitely do. What most PAX seem to forget is that Friday and Saturday nights are peak hours. A lot of things in the service and entertainment industry cost more on the weekends. Plus, if I'm going to give up my weekends (time I'd much rather be out with _my_ friends, family, or wife... like the PAX we're picking up), it needs to be worth my while.

When a PAX complains about weekend surge, this is what I say:

"Sorry that you feel the price is too high. I don't control surge, it is an automated process done by Uber. Remember that there are plenty of services that raise prices when there is increased demand. I'm out giving up my weekend to make a little extra money to pay off my student loan and get people home safely."

That spiel has worked every time.


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## K-nami

stuber said:


> SURGE is unquestionably a completely made up calculation. It could be a good concept though, if drivers could set their own rates based on observable real time market demand. Auction style, ala EBay.
> 
> Uber won't be instituting that any time soon. But...that's where this business has to go eventually.


Sidecar essentially did that. It was nice and worked well especially when it was busy on the weekends here in DC.


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