# 2 weeks in, and I've already quit



## cutpaste

So I signed up for Uber a few weeks back, since they are/were offering a $300 incentive to drivers who completed 30 trips, and $400 for completing 40 trips as a referral which I did for my brother. However, during my time driving, I probably only made about $500, plus $300 as my bonus.

*Uber is CHUMP CHANGE.*

It was also difficult to get surge fares, because there were so many PAX on the app, and I would have spent a large amount of time waiting, or driving around at a loss. Presumably because there were drivers trying to get rides in before the cutoff date for the bonus. And also, there have been several time when I've been in a surge zone and I get absolutely no pings until it dies down back to 1.3x (which is still **** all really), and then back to normal.

The "safe rides" fee is a bunch of bullshit to extract more money out of drivers pockets, and considering how many fares are shorter than the actual drive to the pax, it's unbelievable that I'm still seeing cars bunched up in locations fighting over change. I could rattle a donation cup around town and probably get more money than I can driving for Uber.

Not to mention, I have a pretty decent Honda Civic hatch 2013, with only 65000 kms (about 40,000 miles) on it, which I refuse to put more wear and tear on for absolutely **** all.

I am done driving dumbass, cheapskate passengers around who can't stand somewhere where I can actually stop safely, then get mad because I refuse to stop in the middle of the road for them and roll out the red carpet. I especially hate dumb ****s that slam my doors shut when the car is practically brand new. I have had a few pretty good conversations with some beautiful women, and learnt a few interesting things from people. But at the end of the day, driving around to passengers, most of whom want rides only a few km/miles, and often are farther away than the actual destination, is pointless and a complete waste of time.

I originally joined up because I was interested in the idea and wanted to see how it operated. I'm grateful that I think critically and see things as they really are. Times are tough, and I'm sure for some people Uber is the only option they have right now -- but you are literally paying Uber to drive for them. After all the headaches of figuring out how to pay tax your pennies, you are still left with insurance, rego, and maintenence.

I've been browsing around the site for a while now, so I know everyone here is acquainted with the true cost of being a "partner". But I just can't help but shake my head at how terrible Uber actually is. Uber only got to a 65 BILLION dollar valuation by being penny pinchers at every turn.

If you're still driving for Uber, I urge you to find something worthwhile. It is definitely NOT Uber.


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## RightTurnClyde

Thanks for speaking your truth... Well said


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## SEAL Team 5

cutpaste said:


> So I signed up for Uber a few weeks back, since they are/were offering a $300 incentive to drivers who completed 30 trips, and $400 for completing 40 trips as a referral which I did for my brother. However, during my time driving, I probably only made about $500, plus $300 as my bonus.
> 
> *Uber is CHUMP CHANGE.*
> 
> It was also difficult to get surge fares, because there were so many PAX on the app, and I would have spent a large amount of time waiting, or driving around at a loss. Presumably because there were drivers trying to get rides in before the cutoff date for the bonus. And also, there have been several time when I've been in a surge zone and I get absolutely no pings until it dies down back to 1.3x (which is still &%[email protected]!* all really), and then back to normal.
> 
> The "safe rides" fee is a bunch of bullshit to extract more money out of drivers pockets, and considering how many fares are shorter than the actual drive to the pax, it's unbelievable that I'm still seeing cars bunched up in locations fighting over change. I could rattle a donation cup around town and probably get more money than I can driving for Uber.
> 
> Not to mention, I have a pretty decent Honda Civic hatch 2013, with only 65000 kms (about 40,000 miles) on it, which I refuse to put more wear and tear on for absolutely &%[email protected]!* all.
> 
> I am done driving dumbass, cheapskate passengers around who can't stand somewhere where I can actually stop safely, then get mad because I refuse to stop in the middle of the road for them and roll out the red carpet. I especially hate dumb &%[email protected]!*s that slam my doors shut when the car is practically brand new. I have had a few pretty good conversations with some beautiful women, and learnt a few interesting things from people. But at the end of the day, driving around to passengers, most of whom want rides only a few km/miles, and often are farther away than the actual destination, is pointless and a complete waste of time.
> 
> I originally joined up because I was interested in the idea and wanted to see how it operated. I'm grateful that I think critically and see things as they really are. Times are tough, and I'm sure for some people Uber is the only option they have right now -- but you are literally paying Uber to drive for them. After all the headaches of figuring out how to pay tax your pennies, you are still left with insurance, rego, and maintenence.
> 
> I've been browsing around the site for a while now, so I know everyone here is acquainted with the true cost of being a "partner". But I just can't help but shake my head at how terrible Uber actually is. Uber only got to a 65 BILLION dollar valuation by being penny pinchers at every turn.
> 
> If you're still driving for Uber, I urge you to find something worthwhile. It is definitely NOT Uber.


Very good. It only took you 2 weeks to realize this. Some drivers have been going on 2 years and still don't see the reality.


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## IERide

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that just because it's not working for you does not mean that it doesn't work for every other driver on the planet..


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## cutpaste

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes it might work for the few people who put in the the time to work out untapped areas which may require Uber, who have got a supremely efficient car, are prepared for surges and work specific times, those who have bothered to figure out every expense, gst, tax, depreciation figures just to drive for chump change. But for the vast majority of people,it is a complete waste of time and will devalue your car while you pay Uber to work for them. No thanks. If you can make it work for you then good job, but it's not worth the time and effort for me personally. I make far more money through a small internet business than I do trying to make Uber work.


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## pinnacle

I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


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## Rat

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


Even the uneducated and unskilled deserve to get paid reasonably for their labor. And the use of their own vehicle. We are human beings, not tools to be exploited and thrown away when you have extracted every dime you can get from us.


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## pinnacle

What is the reasonable rate for a driver? , any type of business in NYC requires substantial financial commitment and some kind of skill , on the other hand being a driver doesn't require that much , sure you need to have a decent car, but it doesn't Cost 5k in rent like businesses pay, so you figure the numbers.


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## Rat

My car cost $15,000. What kind of price of shit are you driving? Every year driving for Uber is costing well more than 5k in fuel, maintainance, and depreciation. By law, the rate for anyone doing anything is minimum wage.


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## pinnacle

Rat said:


> My car cost $15,000. What kind of price of shit are you driving? Every year driving for Uber is costing well more than 5k in fuel, maintainance, and depreciation. By law, the rate for anyone doing anything is minimum wage.


I guess you need to do some number crunching , say if you are s contractor in construction you'll be deducting all the equipment costs and other expensis at tax season , same with uber or any similar service , your car is an equipment to do business .


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## Rat

pinnacle said:


> I guess you need to do some number crunching , say if you are s contractor in construction you'll be deducting all the equipment costs and other expensis at tax season , same with uber or any similar service , your car is an equipment to do business .


Why do I need to do some member crunching? You're the one discounting that cost entirely.


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## pinnacle

Rat said:


> Why do I need to do some member crunching? You're the one discounting that cost entirely.


I'm not discounting , I'm comparing to the other businesses.


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## Rat

pinnacle said:


> I'm not discounting , I'm comparing to the other businesses.


Yet you still think the compensation is adequate


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## pinnacle

Yes I do and this is not uber , it's s new Internet economy , you complaining? And ask medallion owners how much money they are losing , market regulates the prices and believe me , at some point more price adjustment will come .


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## Rat

pinnacle said:


> Yes I do and this is not uber , it's s new Internet economy , you complaining? And ask medallion owners how much money they are losing , market regulates the prices and believe me , at some point more price adjustment will come .


Not as long as Uber can falsely advertise for new drivers to exploit. Medallion owners make their money from leasing the cabs, they aren't losing anything, but their drivers are. Price adjustment has already come. Downward. Rates won't rise as long as Uber can exploit new drivers to replace the old or they eliminate drivers altogether with SDCs as they plan.


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## abe54321

pinnacle said:


> since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly ,.


why don't you elaborate on that


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## IERide

Rat said:


> Even the uneducated and unskilled deserve to get paid reasonably for their labor.


That's not how Captiolism works.. You don't _DESERVE_ anything. The more you put in (education, etc) the more you get out (pay). If you feel you aren't getting what you deserve you move on to something else, or start your own business giving people what they deserve.


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## autofill

The only real reason why there's still drivers out there is those drivers only think about how much income they can earn a day. In a typical hourly job, most people are limited to an 8-10 hours day x their hourly rate, which is a typical 40 hours a week job.

The only difference driving for uber versus an hourly job is not having the 8-10 hours a day work limit.

Example:
A normal person get paid $10/hr at job. He can only make $80 max in an 8 hour day, five days a week. That's $400 gross paycheck.

Uber drivers will drive all day long until they meet their financial goal for that day whether it's trying to bring home $80 within 5 hrs or within 15 hrs. They don't think how much they make per hour, they only think how much they take home per day x number of days per week they work which is 7 days max. So $80/day for seven days is $560 paycheck, driving 35 to 105 hrs a week of course.

This type of thinking how much they can bring home a day is similar to owning a business. A clothing store at the mall for example doesn't worry about how much they have to earn per hour if they open from 10am to 9pm everyday.


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## pinnacle

abe54321 said:


> why don't you elaborate on that


Elaborate about what? Driving doesn't require extensive training , you need more training to be a good waiter at an upscale restaurant , and I'm not even talking about getting regular trade job certificates , plumbing , welding , carpenting.


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## RJA

cutpaste said:


> I've been browsing around the site for a while now, so I know everyone here is acquainted with the true cost of being a "partner".


Partner. Yeah, right. If you were an actual partner you would have a say in how your business is run.


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## jack badly

If you are talking about cheapskate Uber pax, greedy uber , and car depreciation, where do food delivery drivers stand?? In my honest opinion, 50% of Americans are cheapskate, greedy or just plain broke (alot of Americans have less than a few thousands in their bank account). They are expected to give 20% tip but some customers give like 5% or 10%. 

Talking about cheapskate, I got two pax entered their destination right near the edge of the airport toll zone so they can just walk over and save a 3-4 dollar toll. lol 3-4 dollars is just not worth it for a 10 min walk to the airport..


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## cutpaste

It's amazing to me that the minimum wage is so low in America, that is ridiculous. In Australia, the average is something like 23AUD (about $17-$18USD~). I guess Uber must think that's acceptable, but our cost of living is very high as well which they're not accounting for. It's too bad, some of my friends lately have complained about getting really rude drivers and drivers cancelling on them (wonder why?). 

Good luck to you people still in the game.


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## RJA

I lasted a about 3 1/2 weeks. I'm losing money. If I want to lose money I'll sit at home and play the lottery.


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## cutpaste

That's great! It was so obvious to me that it was a losing game. Without the incentives (bonus and referral fee) it is a pretty stupid idea for drivers to ruin perfectly good cars for pennies on the dollar. I hope Uber completely bombs once driverless cars take far longer to become a reality than they think.


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## RJA

cutpaste said:


> That's great! It was so obvious to me that it was a losing game. Without the incentives (bonus and referral fee) it is a pretty stupid idea for drivers to ruin perfectly good cars for pennies on the dollar. I hope Uber completely bombs once driverless cars take far longer to become a reality than they think.


I received no bonus. I wouldn't refer anybody to get into this business unless I hated them. What they don't calculate is your dead miles. The 7 miles you drive to pick up your pax to take them 2 miles. Then you get a nice one that's going 40 miles except it's your last one of the day and you have to drive 40 miles back home that is on you.


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## cutpaste

Exactly. Dead miles are one of the biggest cuts into your paycheck and pretty neuters any meager profit one might have made anyway. This happened on one of my last trips where it started to rain heavily, some guy had accidentally swerved and drove his car into a huge flooded side road. Picked him up and headed the opposite direction home for 20 minutes. Felt good about being a great samaritan. But I still had to drive back at half the speed limit due to heavy rain. And for all my efforts, get paid maybe profit $2-$3 for spending my time and fuel.


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## JapanFour

there is always going to be a disparity based on location and opinions on uber. Someone from a large downtown city that has a honeycomb grid will love uber if they are available for it at the right times. Others that live in more spread out suburban areas will either hate it if they do it full time, or be complacent enought to accept the income as part time. 

The bottom line with uber still remains, its a company that tries to have as little accountability as possible, and its to a shocking degree what they get away with in america. Companies used to be way more responsible for how their business's operate. Now they have gone towards a path where they are responsible for less and retain more profits. Uber is even worse because it fails to inform its drivers about many things, like the fact that insurance rates change when you are operating as a livery vehicle. So while some of you get away with cheap insurance, once you have an accident, that turns into a problem situation. When the uber app is on all you get is liability/supplemental. Another thing uber does is it employs you as a contractor, promotes that you are your own boss, all while the app constantly ****ing badgers you on how it wants you to operate clearly exploiting the employer employee relationship by saying on one hand that you are your own boss and on the other laying out how you should conduct your own business being the boss that you are.

Its interesting someone mentioned waiting tables as being something that requires more experience. Do you realize that they get paid at times less than minimum wage? Does that mean that according to your standards uber drivers should get less?

You guys are assuming way too much benevolence on ubers part. All uber is doing is finding places where there are no laws or regulations on operating livery vehicles, or contesting existing law at the employers expense, all while telling the employer that these regulations stand in their way of getting money. So they dupe the employers into ****ing themselves.


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## RightTurnClyde

JapanFour said:


> there is always going to be a disparity based on location and opinions on uber. Someone from a large downtown city that has a honeycomb grid will love uber if they are available for it at the right times. Others that live in more spread out suburban areas will either hate it if they do it full time, or be complacent enought to accept the income as part time.
> 
> The bottom line with uber still remains, its a company that tries to have as little accountability as possible, and its to a shocking degree what they get away with in america. Companies used to be way more responsible for how their business's operate. Now they have gone towards a path where they are responsible for less and retain more profits. Uber is even worse because it fails to inform its drivers about many things, like the fact that insurance rates change when you are operating as a livery vehicle. So while some of you get away with cheap insurance, once you have an accident, that turns into a problem situation. When the uber app is on all you get is liability/supplemental. Another thing uber does is it employs you as a contractor, promotes that you are your own boss, all while the app constantly &%[email protected]!*ing badgers you on how it wants you to operate clearly exploiting the employer employee relationship by saying on one hand that you are your own boss and on the other laying out how you should conduct your own business being the boss that you are.
> 
> Its interesting someone mentioned waiting tables as being something that requires more experience. Do you realize that they get paid at times less than minimum wage? Does that mean that according to your standards uber drivers should get less?
> 
> You guys are assuming way too much benevolence on ubers part. All uber is doing is finding places where there are no laws or regulations on operating livery vehicles, or contesting existing law at the employers expense, all while telling the employer that these regulations stand in their way of getting money. So they dupe the employers into &%[email protected]!*ing themselves.


Nice post...


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## RedoBeach

pinnacle said:


> Elaborate about what? Driving doesn't require extensive training , you need more training to be a good waiter at an upscale restaurant , and I'm not even talking about getting regular trade job certificates , plumbing , welding , carpenting.


Well, maybe driving for Uber doesn't require any extensive training or special skill... (Outside of needing to learn the tricks of actually getting them to pay you correctly and not be manipulated by their system, when and how to drive to make the most of your time investment, and your legal rights as a contractor...)

However, a professional driver such as for a limosine company or black car service, or a driving platform in which you were ACTUALLY alotted the ability to market and grow your own customer base as an independent contractor most certainly does require skill. Professional driving requires the same level of skill of any position in a customer service related field. Dealing with the public and sales are underrated skills that transfer to any and all business.

Unfortunately with Uber, they operate under the guise that you ARE a professional driver with your own business so they can pass off the expense to you, BUT the reality is the structure of their system and the control they maintain over the way it's "contractors" conduct business allows drivers ZERO opportunity to actually grow any sort of professional driving business and expansion, regardless of a particular ability or skill set setting you apart from other drivers (aka, your competition).

Basically, you are an employee, paying your own expenses and taxes to Uber's benefit.


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## RJA

JapanFour said:


> Its interesting someone mentioned waiting tables as being something that requires more experience. Do you realize that they get paid at times less than minimum wage? Does that mean that according to your standards uber drivers should get less?


Waiters may get paid less than minimum wage in their hourly pay, but the tips put them over it and, in some places, way over it. If the tips are not enough to get them to minimum wage then the employer has to make up the difference to get them there. Tips are expected in restaurants and good waiters get more tips. Lousy waiters get less.

That's not how Ubering works. If you make less than minimum wage then you're SOL. Uber has the public brainwashed that they don't need to tip. So, if you're a great driver or not you're more than likely going to be tipped the same amount which is zero.


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## DriverX

pinnacle said:


> What is the reasonable rate for a driver? , any type of business in NYC requires substantial financial commitment and some kind of skill , on the other hand being a driver doesn't require that much , sure you need to have a decent car, but it doesn't Cost 5k in rent like businesses pay, so you figure the numbers.


I average $35 an hour and I'm always over the top drivers numbers in my market because of my skill as a driver and skill at using the tools provided to maximize my earnings. Drivers like me are the guys setting the curve high so that Uber can tout higher hourly rates in their marketing material.

Driving a car doesn't require a lot of skill but driving well does and making uber anything over a $15 an hour grind takes talent. Drivers who sell themselves and their ability short are riding around with their app online all day taking 1x shorties and preventing surge. grinders is what they are called. don't be a grinder


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## jack badly

DriverX said:


> I average $35 an hour and I'm always over the top drivers numbers in my market because of my skill as a driver and skill at using the tools provided to maximize my earnings. Drivers like me are the guys setting the curve high so that Uber can tout higher hourly rates in their marketing material.
> 
> Driving a car doesn't require a lot of skill but driving well does and making uber anything over a $15 an hour grind takes talent. Drivers who sell themselves and their ability short are riding around with their app online all day taking 1x shorties and preventing surge. grinders is what they are called. don't be a grinder


It is all about the surge. No surge=25-30+/hr is not possible (mark my words on this) . I haven't seen a constant surge day for the past two months until yesterday. Most surges are gone in a few minutes.


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## DriverX

jack badly said:


> It is all about the surge. No surge=25-30+/hr is not possible (mark my words on this) . I haven't seen a constant surge day for the past two months until yesterday. Most surges are gone in a few minutes.


Yes they run quick, thats why you have to know where to be to ambush them. Fairly average weekend here so far, I'm only netting $31 an hour. If I was grinding maybe I'd pull $18-20.

don't be a grinder


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## JapanFour

RJA said:


> Waiters may get paid less than minimum wage in their hourly pay, but the tips put them over it and, in some places, way over it. If the tips are not enough to get them to minimum wage then the employer has to make up the difference to get them there. Tips are expected in restaurants and good waiters get more tips. Lousy waiters get less.
> 
> That's not how Ubering works. If you make less than minimum wage then you're SOL. Uber has the public brainwashed that they don't need to tip. So, if you're a great driver or not you're more than likely going to be tipped the same amount which is zero.


Tips dont always put them above min wage, also restaurant owners/managers habitually skirt the rules. Uber is constantly trying to change laws so that they can futher dick drivers and employees so that they can be above the law. So one is working on changing laws so that they dont break them like they intend to, the other just breaks laws.


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## Uber Is The Devil

[10 dollars plus mileage OTE="pinnacle, post: 1245222, member: 57667"]What is the reasonable rate for a driver? , any type of business in NYC requires substantial financial commitment and some kind of skill , on the other hand being a driver doesn't require that much , sure you need to have a decent car, but it doesn't Cost 5k in rent like businesses pay, so you figure the numbers.[/QUOTE]
10


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## Laughingatyoufoolsdaily

Well this thread is no fun at all.....you people actually have it figured out.....good for you!


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## A T

jack badly said:


> It is all about the surge. No surge=25-30+/hr is not possible (mark my words on this) . I haven't seen a constant surge day for the past two months until yesterday. Most surges are gone in a few minutes.


Yeah they last 2 minutes if your lucky.


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## ChortlingCrison

cutpaste said:


> That's great! It was so obvious to me that it was a losing game. Without the incentives (bonus and referral fee) it is a pretty stupid idea for drivers to ruin perfectly good cars for pennies on the dollar. I hope Uber completely bombs once driverless cars take far longer to become a reality than they think.


It's good to see new drivers catching on to ubers true colours quickly.


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## A T

Its easy to see the obvious if you want to see it of course.


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## tohunt4me

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


Sounds like YOURE perfect for the job !


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## TBone

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


Your obviously speaking as someone with experience. Sorry you have no skills or education. 
In a couple of weeks, I will be charging $175 an hour to tune engines and dyno cars. Also worked for banks and have some college. 
Uber let me get out and meet people which I generally do not do on my own. Unfortunately, I keep meeting all the wrong people...sloppy drunk people who can't finish sentences and want to offer me $20 to drive and beat on my car. 
Feel free to contact me once you get a Porsche 911. I charge $250 an hour to tune them.


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## Slavic Riga

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


Agreed. Now lets be practical.
So, when these uneducated & no special skills people/drivers walk into a supermarket or grocery store, do they get charged a special rate for being uneducated or do they have to pay the same rate as every educated person. Please bear in mind that the educated also shop at Walmart.

Do you at your place of work accept the salary/pay scale of the person running errands or of the delivery driver. For both positions you have to complete High School as you have to be able to read & write. *Not use brains.* _That's where you or somebody who thinks like you come in or the computer comes in. _ Whatever your level of education the pay offered to these two positions should be commensurate to your position. *Have I got it right or did I miss out on any detail.*


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## Uber Is The Devil

I love how smarty pants mofos like calling people uneducated or unskilled because of how they make a living. I believe it comes down to inner peace and what your willing to put up with in order to be happy with your life.


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## John326

cutpaste said:


> So I signed up for Uber a few weeks back, since they are/were offering a $300 incentive to drivers who completed 30 trips, and $400 for completing 40 trips as a referral which I did for my brother. However, during my time driving, I probably only made about $500, plus $300 as my bonus.
> 
> *Uber is CHUMP CHANGE.*
> 
> It was also difficult to get surge fares, because there were so many PAX on the app, and I would have spent a large amount of time waiting, or driving around at a loss. Presumably because there were drivers trying to get rides in before the cutoff date for the bonus. And also, there have been several time when I've been in a surge zone and I get absolutely no pings until it dies down back to 1.3x (which is still &%[email protected]!* all really), and then back to normal.
> 
> The "safe rides" fee is a bunch of bullshit to extract more money out of drivers pockets, and considering how many fares are shorter than the actual drive to the pax, it's unbelievable that I'm still seeing cars bunched up in locations fighting over change. I could rattle a donation cup around town and probably get more money than I can driving for Uber.
> 
> Not to mention, I have a pretty decent Honda Civic hatch 2013, with only 65000 kms (about 40,000 miles) on it, which I refuse to put more wear and tear on for absolutely &%[email protected]!* all.
> 
> I am done driving dumbass, cheapskate passengers around who can't stand somewhere where I can actually stop safely, then get mad because I refuse to stop in the middle of the road for them and roll out the red carpet. I especially hate dumb &%[email protected]!*s that slam my doors shut when the car is practically brand new. I have had a few pretty good conversations with some beautiful women, and learnt a few interesting things from people. But at the end of the day, driving around to passengers, most of whom want rides only a few km/miles, and often are farther away than the actual destination, is pointless and a complete waste of time.
> 
> I originally joined up because I was interested in the idea and wanted to see how it operated. I'm grateful that I think critically and see things as they really are. Times are tough, and I'm sure for some people Uber is the only option they have right now -- but you are literally paying Uber to drive for them. After all the headaches of figuring out how to pay tax your pennies, you are still left with insurance, rego, and maintenence.
> 
> I've been browsing around the site for a while now, so I know everyone here is acquainted with the true cost of being a "partner". But I just can't help but shake my head at how terrible Uber actually is. Uber only got to a 65 BILLION dollar valuation by being penny pinchers at every turn.
> 
> If you're still driving for Uber, I urge you to find something worthwhile. It is definitely NOT Uber.


I agree with u, love ur post , the problem is that it's the at home retires that like driving for uber , but people like me and u that are business minded know that uber is scaring drivers , and yes the pay sucks


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## John326

Slavic Riga said:


> Agreed. Now lets be practical.
> So, when these uneducated & no special skills people/drivers walk into a supermarket or grocery store, do they get charged a special rate for being uneducated or do they have to pay the same rate as every educated person. Please bear in mind that the educated also shop at Walmart.
> 
> Do you at your place of work accept the salary/pay scale of the person running errands or of the delivery driver. For both positions you have to complete High School as you have to be able to read & write. *Not use brains.* _That's where you or somebody who thinks like you come in or the computer comes in. _ Whatever your level of education the pay offered to these two positions should be commensurate to your position. *Have I got it right or did I miss out on any detail.*


What does eduction have to do with bottom line , UBER is scaming drivers and beat ur car up for chump change , daaaaaaa


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## Slavic Riga

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, *since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills* , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.





John326 said:


> What does eduction have to do with bottom line , UBER is scaming drivers and beat ur car up for chump change , daaaaaaa


The answer is to Pinnacle's post. Please read his post.


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## KINGOFTHENORTH

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


There are many driving jobs where you make alot of money in driving jobs. For instance some ups drivers with no special skills and who are uneducated clear 6 figures


----------



## 1995flyingspur

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Very good. It only took you 2 weeks to realize this. Some drivers have been going on 2 years and still don't see the reality.


Uber came into existence just at the right time...right when we as a world have a financial meltdown. The only reason this economy is still barely alive is because the fed is keeping interest rates at zero, hence the term ZIRP. Our economy is on life support just like the Uber drivers & there's no real way out for many.


----------



## thelittleguyhelper

1995flyingspur said:


> Uber came into existence just at the right time...right when we as a world have a financial meltdown. The only reason this economy is still barely alive is because the fed is keeping interest rates at zero, hence the term ZIRP. Our economy is on life support just like the Uber drivers & there's no real way out for many.


Preach it. You understand something that most people do a LALALALALALA at because it is discomorting.


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## gman8321

I have been driving for Uber off and on for a few weeks. I drive in Milwaukee and have been testing different areas to see what I can make. The reality is this, in one part of Milwaukee, I make a pretty good amount of money in a short time. In every other area of Milwaukee, it simply isn't worth it. I get paid the same amount of money whether I make a 1-mile trip or a 20-mile trip. What this is doing is moving drivers to the area in which the money is to be made and away from the area in which there is no money to be made. I initially told my wife that I was going to stop driving for Uber, but what I am now doing is to drive exclusively in the "hot" area and forget the rest of the Milwaukee area. In the "hot" area after fees, I can make $15-20 per hour.


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## Victour B

Ok ! end of first week made $218 for 61 hours most of them under 15 min.. works out to $3.57 per hr. in 1970 I made $4.50 per hour need that job back.. out of this money I paid GAS. $15. and lease payment on Uber car of $140. leaving $63. Profit. Oh subtract $50. for food. Now I have $13.00 to put in the Bank.. wait ! I think I need more gas.. Oh well it was fun listening to the drunks and kids screaming and kicking the seat. and the passengers not to be found when I approach the Pin


----------



## 1995flyingspur

autofill said:


> The only real reason why there's still drivers out there is those drivers only think about how much income they can earn a day. In a typical hourly job, most people are limited to an 8-10 hours day x their hourly rate, which is a typical 40 hours a week job.
> 
> The only difference driving for uber versus an hourly job is not having the 8-10 hours a day work limit.
> 
> Example:
> A normal person get paid $10/hr at job. He can only make $80 max in an 8 hour day, five days a week. That's $400 gross paycheck.
> 
> Uber drivers will drive all day long until they meet their financial goal for that day whether it's trying to bring home $80 within 5 hrs or within 15 hrs. They don't think how much they make per hour, they only think how much they take home per day x number of days per week they work which is 7 days max. So $80/day for seven days is $560 paycheck, driving 35 to 105 hrs a week of course.
> 
> This type of thinking how much they can bring home a day is similar to owning a business. A clothing store at the mall for example doesn't worry about how much they have to earn per hour if they open from 10am to 9pm everyday.


All due respect, I think you're wrong assuming how Uber drivers view their income. Some may view the daily results whilst others hourly, whilst others weekly, etc...etc...Uber is a company exploiting its workforce, causing the workforce to operate as taxis illegally. The company has paid out hundreds of millions defending their business structure, or lack thereof. They started at the perfect time in would history...when the planet has pretty much gone bankrupt & all of those poor peeps who had left the workforce are taking anything they can get...hence Uber and those 10s of 1000s of people jumping in.

Btw to that other post, yes it's very easy to drive but not so much to drive well...


----------



## 1995flyingspur

RedoBeach said:


> Well, maybe driving for Uber doesn't require any extensive training or special skill... (Outside of needing to learn the tricks of actually getting them to pay you correctly and not be manipulated by their system, when and how to drive to make the most of your time investment, and your legal rights as a contractor...)
> 
> However, a professional driver such as for a limosine company or black car service, or a driving platform in which you were ACTUALLY alotted the ability to market and grow your own customer base as an independent contractor most certainly does require skill. Professional driving requires the same level of skill of any position in a customer service related field. Dealing with the public and sales are underrated skills that transfer to any and all business.
> 
> Unfortunately with Uber, they operate under the guise that you ARE a professional driver with your own business so they can pass off the expense to you, BUT the reality is the structure of their system and the control they maintain over the way it's "contractors" conduct business allows drivers ZERO opportunity to actually grow any sort of professional driving business and expansion, regardless of a particular ability or skill set setting you apart from other drivers (aka, your competition).
> 
> Basically, you are an employee, paying your own expenses and taxes to Uber's benefit.


This post here is one of the best I have read in this forum! Thank you!!!


----------



## REX HAVOC

cutpaste said:


> So I signed up for Uber a few weeks back, since they are/were offering a $300 incentive to drivers who completed 30 trips, and $400 for completing 40 trips as a referral which I did for my brother. However, during my time driving, I probably only made about $500, plus $300 as my bonus.
> 
> *Uber is CHUMP CHANGE.*
> 
> It was also difficult to get surge fares, because there were so many PAX on the app, and I would have spent a large amount of time waiting, or driving around at a loss. Presumably because there were drivers trying to get rides in before the cutoff date for the bonus. And also, there have been several time when I've been in a surge zone and I get absolutely no pings until it dies down back to 1.3x (which is still &%[email protected]!* all really), and then back to normal.
> 
> The "safe rides" fee is a bunch of bullshit to extract more money out of drivers pockets, and considering how many fares are shorter than the actual drive to the pax, it's unbelievable that I'm still seeing cars bunched up in locations fighting over change. I could rattle a donation cup around town and probably get more money than I can driving for Uber.
> 
> Not to mention, I have a pretty decent Honda Civic hatch 2013, with only 65000 kms (about 40,000 miles) on it, which I refuse to put more wear and tear on for absolutely &%[email protected]!* all.
> 
> I am done driving dumbass, cheapskate passengers around who can't stand somewhere where I can actually stop safely, then get mad because I refuse to stop in the middle of the road for them and roll out the red carpet. I especially hate dumb &%[email protected]!*s that slam my doors shut when the car is practically brand new. I have had a few pretty good conversations with some beautiful women, and learnt a few interesting things from people. But at the end of the day, driving around to passengers, most of whom want rides only a few km/miles, and often are farther away than the actual destination, is pointless and a complete waste of time.
> 
> I originally joined up because I was interested in the idea and wanted to see how it operated. I'm grateful that I think critically and see things as they really are. Times are tough, and I'm sure for some people Uber is the only option they have right now -- but you are literally paying Uber to drive for them. After all the headaches of figuring out how to pay tax your pennies, you are still left with insurance, rego, and maintenence.
> 
> I've been browsing around the site for a while now, so I know everyone here is acquainted with the true cost of being a "partner". But I just can't help but shake my head at how terrible Uber actually is. Uber only got to a 65 BILLION dollar valuation by being penny pinchers at every turn.
> 
> If you're still driving for Uber, I urge you to find something worthwhile. It is definitely NOT Uber.


How much would you need to make to make it worth your while?


----------



## Flarpy

gman8321 said:


> In the "hot" area after fees, I can make $15-20 per hour.


So sad that for this job "hot" is equivalent to a lower-middle class income.


----------



## cutpaste

REX HAVOC said:


> How much would you need to make to make it worth your while?


I think a minimum gross fare of around $40-$45 AUD (probably around $30-$35USD) would make it tolerable. That would still be far less than taxis charge, after Uber is done taking their cuts, after paying taxes, gas, and accounting for wear and tear. In Australia we also pay registration which has compulsory insurance, which equals to about $600 USD every year for 4 cylinder vehicles.


----------



## Xylphan

I've been doing a fair amount of research on the so-called "gig" or "sharing" economy. A number of people who want to work these jobs are people who already have full time careers and are just looking for a fun/interesting way to pull in some extra side cash in their spare time. Not everyone who is looking to drive for Uber is an uneducated/unskilled idiot, as implied by one poster in this thread. As a counter example, I'm a well established software engineer pulling down plenty of cash in my full time career, and have been looking at side gigs as just a fun way to spend a couple hours and earn some side cash.

And as an engineer, I have a tendency to do a lot of research and analysis before jumping into things. I've looked into things like Freelancer, Guru, and more recently Uber/Lyft. All these companies operate on pretty much the same principles, but I'll get to that. First, let's get into the analysis.

First, let's get the marketing crap out of the way. The whole "be your own boss"/"work whenever you want"/"be a partner"/"earn $X per hour" is pure marketing BS. It's a psychological ploy along the lines of a Kansas City Shuffle. You're not an entrepreneur. You're not a partner. You're a mark. The beauty of a Kansas City Shuffle is that you convince the mark that they're actually in on a sweet deal. No matter how many times people have been told that if a deal is too good to be true it probably is, they still fall for it.

So how is Uber like a Kansas City Shuffle? First, let's examine the claim of "work your own hours". This is an example of a statement that is 100% true but it is also 100% misleading. True, you can work whenever you want. But as any experienced driver will tell you, if you don't work in right areas and/or at the right times, you won't make squat (and can actually lose money overall). It's like Henry Ford's old saying of "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black". Except in this case it's "you can work any time you want as long as it's downtown between 12am-3am Friday to Sunday".

Now let's examine the "$X per hour" claim. This is a standard tactic for any shady employement. They'll say "Make up to $30 per hour just doing X!". Again, strictly going by the language the statement is 100% true. But again, it is 100% misleading. Sure, there are people who can pull that down. They may be lucky, live in the right area, found a sweet spot, or are willing to take risks others won't, etc. but the average Uber driver isn't going to see anywhere close to that. And of course the dollar per hour amount neglects to mention how much you'd actually get after all the fees/expenses/taxes get removed, or any additional expense you may have to pay such as cover additional licensing/insurance/etc. The idea of "quick cash" usually blinds the masses enough that they don't bother working out the math, and when they finally figure it out it doesn't matter since Uber already has their cut and there's thousands of new suckers just waiting to make the same mistake.

Next up, the always present "testimonials". Anecdotal evidence. Good for a confidence game, but that's about it. You even see it here on this forum with people claiming they make $X/hour. Their stories may well be true, but this information is misleading and worthless. Take a look at acting, for example. You have the big stars that make millions, but anyone who's lived in the LA area can attest to the fact that most actors are working as waiters/waitresses and cashiers. In any population distribution, you're going to have a relative few at the top, a few at the bottom, and a whole lot in the middle. Uber drivers are no different. The "up to $X/hour people" are few and far between. The average driver is going to earn a whole lot less at the end of the day. For example, running the numbers in my area if I want to stay "safe and sane" and work the hours I would like, the range goes from slightly negative up to a couple bucks an hour on average after all is said and done. In comparison, I can work a few hours in the morning on Saturday and Sunday stocking shelves at the local PetSmart and make $10/hour. From going through this form and other forums/sites, it seems a lot of people have finally made similar realizations (especially after the rate cuts) and have either greatly reduced their driving to specific conditions or have stopped altogether.

What about the incentives? Surely a scam wouldn't give money away for free? Of course they would! It's one of the easiest ways to hook a mark. Offer them easy money. Get them in the door, then milk them dry. You get $X dollars as a sign on bonus after doing Y rides, for example. But do the math. Uber takes $2.50 as a safety fee, and a 25%-30% cut. After Y rides, you've likely made them far more than the $100 they're going to give you. Sure, it's a one time hit to their 30% profit margin on the driver but now the mark is hooked. You can count on a new 30% profit until they figure out that driving for Uber isn't nearly as great as they thought. Uber doesn't care because they already made their cash and their is no shortage of marks (at least for now).

And then there's the leasing and phone rental garbage. The fact that these are, at best, bad deals should be pretty evident to anyone.

So if you're thinking of driving Uber, Lyft, or working in the gig economy in general make sure you do your due diligence. Keep in mind, this is fairly new and loosely regulated. Research. Dig past the scam^H^H^H^H marketing and get to the cold hard facts and numbers before you make any decisions. Run the numbers and make sure it's worth your time. Take ALL your expenses into account. If necessary, get a tax expert to go through a couple scenarios with you so you know what to expect. If you think it still works for you, then best of luck.


----------



## KINGOFTHENORTH

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


Many driving jobs pay well. For istance LTL truck driving Averages 80k a year, in additional full benifits, full pension ect.


----------



## Victour B

Flarpy said:


> So sad that for this job "hot" is equivalent to a lower-middle class income.


Not for Me. I worked 61 hours and made $178. so Made 2.61 per hour less taxes, Gas and Insurance. wow ! excited second week looks like it might be the same even though getting better at this..


----------



## 4736353377384555736

TBone said:


> In a couple of weeks, I will be charging $175 an hour to tune engines and dyno cars. Also worked for banks and have some college.





Xylphan said:


> A number of people who want to work these jobs are people who already have full time careers and are just looking for a fun/interesting way to pull in some extra side cash in their spare time. Not everyone who is looking to drive for Uber is an uneducated/unskilled idiot, as implied by one poster in this thread. As a counter example, I'm a well established software engineer pulling down plenty of cash in my full time career, and have been looking at side gigs as just a fun way to spend a couple hours and earn some side cash


These are the people I do not understand.

Imagine some rich guy going to work in the strawberry fields for free who's just there to "kill some time" and "learn a little Spanish." How do you think the other field hands would view that person? A person who's taken a job from someone who actually needs the money just so he can "get out" and "meet new people" and "spend a couple of hours in the sun." They would _despise_ him, because they actually need the money and he's lowering the rates they can charge because he luuuuurves picking strawberries and has nothing better to do.

That's the difference between people who drive rideshare because they actually need the money (such as myself) and hobbyists who, for some reason, want to kill time driving strangers around in their car rather than spend time with friends and family or relax reading a book.

And unfortunately it ruins the people who need the money. Uber thinks "Hey we can lower prices to near zero and people will still drive for us!" And they're right: all the hobbyists take to the road because they have no other life and work for nothing while actual poor people can't make enough to feed themselves.

Makes me sick.



> Uber let me get out and meet people which I generally do not do on my own.


That's freakin sad dude. Here's an idea. You "get out" and have a great time driving randos around while I stay in spending quality time with people I actually care about. And then you give me the money you make driving because obviously you don't need it. Win-win!

A suggestion to all those who drive because it "gets them out of the house," or "is a fun way to meet new people"....* get a life.*


----------



## Xylphan

4736353377384555736 said:


> These are the people I do not understand.
> 
> Imagine some rich guy going to work in the strawberry fields for free who's just there to "kill some time" and "learn a little Spanish."


Strawman, stereotype, and racism all in one? Is your last name Trump by any chance?

And how, precisely, do you define someone as being rich, hmm? A decent job that pays the bills with a little left over for some occasional fun is not being rich. Someone looking for a little side income to buff up their rainy day fund or max their IRA isn't rich either. Neither is the person who's trying to save up some extra for a home improvement, or a down payment on a car, or the retiree looking to supplement their income. These are the people who use Uber and other "sharing" economy type jobs for some extra income to supplement what they already make.

Seriously, Uber even markets itself as a side gig.

For the truly rich, such jobs aren't even worth their time. They're earning more passively from investments than they would ever earn from doing a side gig. I seriously doubt you're going to find many that meet that definition driving around for Uber. Especially since strawmen like your only exist in your head.



4736353377384555736 said:


> And unfortunately it ruins the people who need the money. Uber thinks "Hey we can lower prices to near zero and people will still drive for us!" And they're right: all the hobbyists take to the road because they have no other life and work for nothing while actual poor people can't make enough to feed themselves.
> 
> Makes me sick.


Are you seriously trying to claim that the people doing this for a side gig are responsible for Uber cutting prices and not the thousands of ignorant people hoping on Uber because they thinks they can quit their jobs and do this full time to make easy money? 

Did you fail economics or something?

At any rate, your South Park-esque "dey tuk r jerbs" appeals to emotion don't work on logical reasoning (or reality). The influx of desperate/ignorant drivers is what allows Uber to slash prices, not the people side-gigging for some supplementary income. In fact, due to the rate cuts a number of them don't even side-gig any more because it isn't worth their time.


----------



## HoseNose

John326 said:


> What does eduction have to do with bottom line , UBER is scaming drivers and beat ur car up for chump change , daaaaaaa





KINGOFTHENORTH said:


> There are many driving jobs where you make alot of money in driving jobs. For instance some ups drivers with no special skills and who are uneducated clear 6 figures


Then work for UPS.


----------



## HoseNose

Victour B said:


> Not for Me. I worked 61 hours and made $178. so Made 2.61 per hour less taxes, Gas and Insurance. wow ! excited second week looks like it might be the same even though getting better at this..


So you actually had passengers in your car for 61 hours? I was online last week for 60 hours, but I only drove for 4 hours. and made $115 plus $40 in tips. $10 worth of gas. That's around $30 per hour.
And you wouldn't have insurance except for Uber? Yes you would, so that doesn't count.
Taxes? With all the deductions, you won't pay hardly anything.


----------



## Xylphan

HoseNose said:


> So you actually had passengers in your car for 61 hours? I was online last week for 60 hours, but I only drove for 4 hours. and made $115 plus $40 in tips. $10 worth of gas. That's around $30 per hour.
> And you wouldn't have insurance except for Uber? Yes you would, so that doesn't count.
> Taxes? With all the deductions, you won't pay hardly anything.


You're not fully accounting for your expenses. You need to amortize over the average cost and expenses of operating your vehicle/business, and that's more than just gas. By not taking that into account, you're incorrectly classifying revenue (what's going into your pocket now) as profit (what you really make after all expenses and taxes are taken into account). That's a sure way to end any business.


----------



## HoseNose

Xylphan said:


> You're not fully accounting for your expenses. You need to amortize over the average cost and expenses of operating your vehicle/business, and that's more than just gas. By not taking that into account, you're incorrectly classifying revenue (what's going into your pocket now) as profit (what you really make after all expenses and taxes are taken into account). That's a sure way to end any business.


Ok. Point taken. I'll subtract .54 per mile, which is what the IRS allows and pretty much accounts for wear and tear. Still over $25 per hour of actual work.
Granted, I have the advantage of my car being paid in full.


----------



## Xylphan

HoseNose said:


> Ok. Point taken. I'll subtract .54 per mile, which is what the IRS allows and pretty much accounts for wear and tear. Still over $25 per hour of actual work.
> Granted, I have the advantage of my car being paid in full.


And that's an important point. You fully own your car so there are no finance and negative equity issues.

Also, you should look up your car model operating expenses specifically. The average 4 door is about $0.58 per mile, but depending on your make and model this can vary quite a bit. For example, a Prius C is only $0.31 per mile. And of course, those are averages. You may luck out and have only basic maintenance costs or your engine could fall out and basically have to buy a new car.


----------



## HoseNose

Xylphan said:


> And that's an important point. You fully own your car so there are no finance and negative equity issues.
> 
> Also, you should look up your car model operating expenses specifically. The average 4 door is about $0.58 per mile, but depending on your make and model this can vary quite a bit. For example, a Prius C is only $0.31 per mile. And of course, those are averages. You may luck out and have only basic maintenance costs or your engine could fall out and basically have to buy a new car.


Again. Good points. I'll have to make sure I do my due diligence in this matter. But I was a lot happier living in ignorance.


----------



## Xylphan

HoseNose said:


> Again. Good points. I'll have to make sure I do my due diligence in this matter. But I was a lot happier living in ignorance.


Everyone is man. 

But better you learn about this now than when it bites you in the breadloafs.


----------



## KINGOFTHENORTH

HoseNose said:


> Then work for UPS.


I am going to college to be software engineer. Driving for ups is full time and hard work


----------



## m1a1mg

Xylphan said:


> And that's an important point. You fully own your car so there are no finance and negative equity issues.
> 
> Also, you should look up your car model operating expenses specifically. *The average 4 door is about $0.58 per mil*e, but depending on your make and model this can vary quite a bit. For example, a Prius C is only $0.31 per mile. And of course, those are averages. You may luck out and have only basic maintenance costs or your engine could fall out and basically have to buy a new car.


Could you please provide the source for the bolded part? It's pure BS.


----------



## John326

Slavic Riga said:


> The answer is to Pinnacle's post. Please read his post.


I am educated , I did uber part time for personal reasons , but now I work at a bar while my car is parked , I average around $30 a hour with my car parked , what does educated got to do with making fair money for driver ur own car , u sound like a uber rep


----------



## ChortlingCrison

I am a CPA. (Certified pain (in-the) arse). I also have a BS (bullshine) and MS (more sh...t), I also have a PHD. (piled heavy deep)....


----------



## Slavic Riga

John326 said:


> I am educated , I did uber part time for personal reasons , but now I work at a bar while my car is parked , I average around $30 a hour with my car parked , what does educated got to do with making fair money for driver ur own car , u sound like a uber rep


No wonder you work in a bar. Your understanding of English language is limited.


----------



## Xylphan

m1a1mg said:


> Could you please provide the source for the bolded part? It's pure BS.


http://newsroom.aaa.com/auto/your-driving-costs/

Cost per mile is an exponential function. The costs in the link represent the average of the exponential cost function.

There are also historical links to past cost estimations in the article.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

4736353377384555736 said:


> These are the people I do not understand.
> 
> Imagine some rich guy going to work in the strawberry fields for free who's just there to "kill some time" and "learn a little Spanish." How do you think the other field hands would view that person? A person who's taken a job from someone who actually needs the money just so he can "get out" and "meet new people" and "spend a couple of hours in the sun." They would _despise_ him, because they actually need the money and he's lowering the rates they can charge because he luuuuurves picking strawberries and has nothing better to do.
> 
> That's the difference between people who drive rideshare because they actually need the money (such as myself) and hobbyists who, for some reason, want to kill time driving strangers around in their car rather than spend time with friends and family or relax reading a book.
> 
> And unfortunately it ruins the people who need the money. Uber thinks "Hey we can lower prices to near zero and people will still drive for us!" And they're right: all the hobbyists take to the road because they have no other life and work for nothing while actual poor people can't make enough to feed themselves.
> 
> Makes me sick.
> 
> That's freakin sad dude. Here's an idea. You "get out" and have a great time driving randos around while I stay in spending quality time with people I actually care about. And then you give me the money you make driving because obviously you don't need it. Win-win!
> 
> A suggestion to all those who drive because it "gets them out of the house," or "is a fun way to meet new people"....* get a life.*


After about 1500 trips I can count on one hand the number of people I thought I might actually want to converse with outside of Uber.

But not one of them tipped. So I don't really want to get to know them either.


----------



## John326

Slavic Riga said:


> No wonder you work in a bar. Your understanding of English language is limited.


Shut up , I was driving , I'm actually a computer tech , I work at bar for extra money , what's makes u so special ****** bag ????


----------



## John326

John326 said:


> Shut up , I was driving , I'm actually a computer tech , I work at bar for extra money , what's makes u so special ****** bag ????


The moral of the story is uber sucks, uber is a scam, and uber reps are not drivers they will never understand how it feels driving ur own car and making minimum wage ,


----------



## m1a1mg

Xylphan said:


> And that's an important point. You fully own your car so there are no finance and negative equity issues.
> 
> Also, you should look up your car model operating expenses specifically. The average 4 door is about $0.58 per mile, but depending on your make and model this can vary quite a bit. For example, a Prius C is only $0.31 per mile. And of course, those are averages. You may luck out and have only basic maintenance costs or your engine could fall out and basically have to buy a new car.


And once again, that .58 you like to throw around includes costs that a vehicle owner does not have.


----------



## Xylphan

m1a1mg said:


> And once again, that .58 you like to throw around includes costs that a vehicle owner does not have.


And once again you fail to understand accrual accounting.

It's not my number. It's KBB. It's AAA. It's Edmunds. The auto industry has been doing this a hell of a lot longer than me or you. The have the data, statistics, and models of cars and costs to back up their numbers. You don't. You don't even appear to be able to understand how depreciation and amortization works.

You own your car and don't have to make a monthly payment. Great. Good for you. Your car is still an asset. It's still depreciating. As the car ages and the mileage piles on, it will have ever increasing maintenance costs. Without properly accounting for future expenses (which you aren't), you're going to be paying out of pocket when the big expenses hit. Meanwhile, someone who does account for those future expenses by using an appropriate estimate of yearly costs (like the ones provided by KBB, AAA, etc.) can take whatever he/she doesn't spend on maintenance and place it in an interesting bearing account where it can grow over time. By the time the big expenses hit/new car is needed, the ACCRUED expense account will have more than enough to deal with it.

It's called long term business planning. You establish a long term goal, create the best model of future revenue and expenses you can, and execute the best plan to get there based on that (while periodically re-evaluating to make sure you're still on target). It's far better to estimate expenses on the high side than the low side. Worst case scenario is your left with a pile of money left over. Estimate your long term expenses too low and you'll eat into profits.

By not accurately accounting for expenses all you're really doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul.


----------



## scanfinn

I drive on Oahu. we are insulated from most of the gripes on this forum. No pool, lots of tourists, constant business, and tons of surge. Also most notably drivers out here have a normal day job (usually military). If you use Uber simply as side cash then it's EASY MONEY.


----------



## m1a1mg

Xylphan said:


> And once again you fail to understand accrual accounting.
> 
> It's not my number. It's KBB. It's AAA. It's Edmunds. The auto industry has been doing this a hell of a lot longer than me or you. The have the data, statistics, and models of cars and costs to back up their numbers. You don't. You don't even appear to be able to understand how depreciation and amortization works.
> 
> You own your car and don't have to make a monthly payment. Great. Good for you. Your car is still an asset. It's still depreciating. As the car ages and the mileage piles on, it will have ever increasing maintenance costs. Without properly accounting for future expenses (which you aren't), you're going to be paying out of pocket when the big expenses hit. Meanwhile, someone who does account for those future expenses by using an appropriate estimate of yearly costs (like the ones provided by KBB, AAA, etc.) can take whatever he/she doesn't spend on maintenance and place it in an interesting bearing account where it can grow over time. By the time the big expenses hit/new car is needed, the ACCRUED expense account will have more than enough to deal with it.
> 
> It's called long term business planning. You establish a long term goal, create the best model of future revenue and expenses you can, and execute the best plan to get there based on that (while periodically re-evaluating to make sure you're still on target). It's far better to estimate expenses on the high side than the low side. Worst case scenario is your left with a pile of money left over. Estimate your long term expenses too low and you'll eat into profits.
> 
> By not accurately accounting for expenses all you're really doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul.


Wow, you keep typing the same shite over and over and never attempt to read for comprehension.

Go to your link. OK, with me so far? I know that might be a challenge. The site you link includes costs for finance. If I own my car, am I paying any finance costs?

I'll just ask one question at a time so as not to stress you out. A simple yes or no will suffice.


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## Xylphan

m1a1mg said:


> Wow, you keep typing the same shite over and over and never attempt to read for comprehension.
> 
> Go to your link. OK, with me so far? I know that might be a challenge. The site you link includes costs for finance. If I own my car, am I paying any finance costs?
> 
> I'll just ask one question at a time so as not to stress you out. A simple yes or no will suffice.


No. But the average driver is. I'm talking about the population as a whole and not you specifically.

Finance charges are a minor part of expenses unless you have terrible credit and have a terrible rate. If someone get's a 0% APR deal, they have no finance charges. They're still paying principle, just no interest. In the day and age of low interest rates, finance charges for the average person amount to very little in cost per mile calculations.

Simple math. You buy a car for $20K. You put $2K down, and finance the rest at the average rate for some with decent credit, say 6%. The total finance charge will be $2879.43. That's a fixed cost. That's about $0.04 per mile over the standard 5 year/75,000 mile scenario. You can drive more miles and the cost goes down on a per mile average, but you're still paying the same amount of regardless of how much or how little you drive.

Depreciation on the other hand is far more substantial. Full time Uber driving could easily halve the value of your car in one year. Let's say our intrepid Uber driver with his new $20K car puts on 50K miles in a year. Now his car is worth only $10K. That per mile cost the first year just with depreciation alone is is $0.20 per mile.

You can think of it as having an unrealized loss on a stock. The loss isn't actualized until you trade the stock. With a car, your equity loss isn't realized until something happens to it (you sell it, car crash, etc.). You may not think of the loss of equity as cost, but I can damn well guarantee your insurance company does. It's also a loss if your car craps out before you can make back what you paid for it in the case of business use.

If your car is already worth scrap and you already made back what you paid for it, then the criteria for the AVERAGE DRIVER doesn't apply to you. Good for you. But since you are not the AVERAGE DRIVER, you cannot use your particular circumstances to invalidate the AVERAGE driver's circumstances. And that is what the numbers in KBB, AAA, etc. are based on.

Got it?


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## m1a1mg

Xylphan said:


> No. But the average driver is. I'm talking about the population as a whole and not you specifically.
> 
> Finance charges are a minor part of expenses unless you have terrible credit and have a terrible rate. If someone get's a 0% APR deal, they have no finance charges. They're still paying principle, just no interest. In the day and age of low interest rates, finance charges for the average person amount to very little in cost per mile calculations.
> 
> Simple math. You buy a car for $20K. You put $2K down, and finance the rest at the average rate for some with decent credit, say 6%. The total finance charge will be $2879.43. That's a fixed cost. That's about $0.04 per mile over the standard 5 year/75,000 mile scenario. You can drive more miles and the cost goes down on a per mile average, but you're still paying the same amount of regardless of how much or how little you drive.
> 
> Depreciation on the other hand is far more substantial. Full time Uber driving could easily halve the value of your car in one year. Let's say our intrepid Uber driver with his new $20K car puts on 50K miles in a year. Now his car is worth only $10K. That per mile cost the first year just with depreciation alone is is $0.20 per mile.
> 
> You can think of it as having an unrealized loss on a stock. The loss isn't actualized until you trade the stock. With a car, your equity loss isn't realized until something happens to it (you sell it, car crash, etc.). You may not think of the loss of equity as cost, but I can damn well guarantee your insurance company does. It's also a loss if your car craps out before you can make back what you paid for it in the case of business use.
> 
> If your car is already worth scrap and you already made back what you paid for it, then the criteria for the AVERAGE DRIVER doesn't apply to you. Good for you. But since you are not the AVERAGE DRIVER, you cannot use your particular circumstances to invalidate the AVERAGE driver's circumstances. And that is what the numbers in KBB, AAA, etc. are based on.
> 
> Got it?


Evidence that any of your assertions are true? 
Where are you pulling your average driver information? 
The average driver in the AAA survey are Uber drivers?

Because we haven't even gotten close to all the ways you are wrong. This was just the first. One of the first things I learned in Charleston was to get a cheap car and drive the wheels off it. The difference in value of a 2007 Jetta with 150,000 miles versus 500,000 miles is around ~$500.

Your calculations don't work for people who know what they are doing.

Tell me when you are ready to learn your lesson about buying a new car to Uber with part-time.


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## Xylphan

m1a1mg said:


> Evidence that any of your assertions are true?


The auto industry. They've been doing this for a long time.



m1a1mg said:


> Where are you pulling your average driver information?


Automotive sites and the IRS. They're not pulling those numbers out of the air.



m1a1mg said:


> The average driver in the AAA survey are Uber drivers?


Can you read? Seriously, I don't think I can explain this any more simply. The average cost per mile per year for the US is calculated as a number X. That number is based on the average behavior and costs of US drivers (purchase price, depreciation, mileage, etc). If you drive more than the average driver per year, the your yearly costs are higher. It's not that hard to understand.



m1a1mg said:


> Because we haven't even gotten close to all the ways you are wrong.


Really? Perhaps you can enlighten the automotive industry on how to properly calculate cost per mile. Though since you can't do math, I don't think you're going to have a very strong case.



m1a1mg said:


> This was just the first. One of the first things I learned in Charleston was to get a cheap car and drive the wheels off it. The difference in value of a 2007 Jetta with 150,000 miles versus 500,000 miles is around ~$500.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with developing a model to predict the average cost per mile for a 5 year/75,000 mile scenario. Uber drivers in general aren't going out and buying cars specifically for Uber. Most people are just using their regular everyday cars and doing this as a side job.



m1a1mg said:


> Your calculations don't work for people who know what they are doing.


Well no shit. I even CAPITALIZED the fact that I was talking about the AVERAGE in my last post. Are you blind? Illiterate? I've stated the fact that I'm talking about the average many many times in this thread.



m1a1mg said:


> Tell me when you are ready to learn your lesson about buying a new car to Uber with part-time.


You really are an idiot. My posts have never been even remotely related to buying a car to drive for Uber. My posts have been about proper accounting for expenses for the average Joe and Jane Sixpack who jump into Uber (using their own vehicles). You have misconstrued just about every single post I've made. My posts have nothing to do with you or your own singular unique situation.


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## m1a1mg

Xylphan said:


> Well no shit. I even CAPITALIZED the fact that I was talking about the AVERAGE in my last post. Are you blind? Illiterate? I've stated the fact that I'm talking about the average many many times in this thread.
> 
> You really are an idiot. My posts have never been even remotely related to buying a car to drive for Uber. My posts have been about proper accounting for expenses for the average Joe and Jane Sixpack who jump into Uber (using their own vehicles). You have misconstrued just about every single post I've made. *My posts have nothing to do with you or your own singular unique situation.*


God, you are a dense one. You keep talking about the average Uber driver while using metrics for the average US driver. Are you f'ing stupid that you can't figure out there may be a difference? The bolded part is what I will attempt to get you to answer. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT MY SITUATION IS UNIQUE?

For example, does the average Uber driver own his/her car outright or is it financed? If it is financed, is the car purchased purely for Uber or does it have an everyday use? Because the metrics you use, from AAA and KBB assume depreciation for a new car, which is huge from the beginning. If the average Uber driver does not use a new car, but instead purchases one the has initial new car depreciation excluded, then your numbers simply don't work.


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## m1a1mg

According to KBB:
2007 VW Jetta sedan with 150,000 miles: Trade-in value $1492
2007 VW Jetta sedan with 200,000 miles: Trade-in value $1102

That's a $390 difference. In my example, the additional depreciation, per mile is .0078 per mile. What value did AAA or KBB apply to depreciation? This is fairly simple. The answer are available in your metrics.


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## Fuzzyelvis

m1a1mg said:


> Evidence that any of your assertions are true?
> Where are you pulling your average driver information?
> The average driver in the AAA survey are Uber drivers?
> 
> Because we haven't even gotten close to all the ways you are wrong. This was just the first. One of the first things I learned in Charleston was to get a cheap car and drive the wheels off it. The difference in value of a 2007 Jetta with 150,000 miles versus 500,000 miles is around ~$500.
> 
> Your calculations don't work for people who know what they are doing.
> 
> Tell me when you are ready to learn your lesson about buying a new car to Uber with part-time.


Depreciation on a 2007 jetta with 500,000 miles may be nonexistent but the repairs will make up for it.

As a car gets older and has more miles, depreciation goes down, but other costs go up.

You also end up with more downtime (also costing you) while the car is in the shop. That isn't even factored into any cost calculations re repairs.

Buying a new car to uber is not sensible. But neither is buying one on its last legs.

Even if you do all the work yourself, that's time you could be making money.

It's why I don't mow my own lawn. I can make more money doing something else in the time it would take me to do the lawn.


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## m1a1mg

I specifically said 200K for a reason. I wouldn't trust a car wth 500k. A 200k VW is still good.


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## thelittleguyhelper

> Uber let me get out and meet people which I generally do not do on my own.
> 
> 
> 
> That's freakin sad dude. Here's an idea. You "get out" and have a great time driving randos around while I stay in spending quality time with people I actually care about.
Click to expand...

Or you know, s/he's had a tougher life than you and isn't able to do that or form all those connections, so this person is just appreciative of seeing fellow human beings whereas they could not before.

You know, like, people's circumstances vary very, very greatly: I was thanking God for being able to go house to house after being super-sick and isolated for a long time. We need people and your real friends are usually few (and even they're busy with life so can't get to you all that much when you're down and out if you and they alike are like most people).

So how about not insulting someone whose story you know nothing about?


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## Xylphan

thelittleguyhelper said:


> So how about not insulting someone whose story you know nothing about?


You must be new to the internet.


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## thelittleguyhelper

Xylphan said:


> You must be new to the internet.


LOL xD


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## ptuberx

Only Uber in a car that you already own outright. I spent $3000 on mine a full year before I even thought about driving for Uber, plenty of miles left on it.

My gripe is with the Surge zones. I never chase them unless there is a legit reason, like a venue, or closing time, and there is a 3X+ rate going on for awhile. Other times, I'll do a dropoff, find myself smack in the middle of a surge, and get a ping from 14 minutes away outside the zone... a lot.

That said, I can still pull $1k a week if I want, but as others have pointed out, it takes a lot of hours and miles to do it, unless you catch a few off-the-wall surges, like a nice long 6.2X that happens for no reason, etc.


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## Coffeekeepsmedriving

cutpaste said:


> So I signed up for Uber a few weeks back, since they are/were offering a $300 incentive to drivers who completed 30 trips, and $400 for completing 40 trips as a referral which I did for my brother. However, during my time driving, I probably only made about $500, plus $300 as my bonus.
> 
> *Uber is CHUMP CHANGE.*
> 
> It was also difficult to get surge fares, because there were so many PAX on the app, and I would have spent a large amount of time waiting, or driving around at a loss. Presumably because there were drivers trying to get rides in before the cutoff date for the bonus. And also, there have been several time when I've been in a surge zone and I get absolutely no pings until it dies down back to 1.3x (which is still &%[email protected]!* all really), and then back to normal.
> 
> The "safe rides" fee is a bunch of bullshit to extract more money out of drivers pockets, and considering how many fares are shorter than the actual drive to the pax, it's unbelievable that I'm still seeing cars bunched up in locations fighting over change. I could rattle a donation cup around town and probably get more money than I can driving for Uber.
> 
> Not to mention, I have a pretty decent Honda Civic hatch 2013, with only 65000 kms (about 40,000 miles) on it, which I refuse to put more wear and tear on for absolutely &%[email protected]!* all.
> 
> I am done driving dumbass, cheapskate passengers around who can't stand somewhere where I can actually stop safely, then get mad because I refuse to stop in the middle of the road for them and roll out the red carpet. I especially hate dumb &%[email protected]!*s that slam my doors shut when the car is practically brand new. I have had a few pretty good conversations with some beautiful women, and learnt a few interesting things from people. But at the end of the day, driving around to passengers, most of whom want rides only a few km/miles, and often are farther away than the actual destination, is pointless and a complete waste of time.
> 
> I originally joined up because I was interested in the idea and wanted to see how it operated. I'm grateful that I think critically and see things as they really are. Times are tough, and I'm sure for some people Uber is the only option they have right now -- but you are literally paying Uber to drive for them. After all the headaches of figuring out how to pay tax your pennies, you are still left with insurance, rego, and maintenence.
> 
> I've been browsing around the site for a while now, so I know everyone here is acquainted with the true cost of being a "partner". But I just can't help but shake my head at how terrible Uber actually is. Uber only got to a 65 BILLION dollar valuation by being penny pinchers at every turn.
> 
> If you're still driving for Uber, I urge you to find something worthwhile. It is definitely NOT Uber.


Bravo


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## Ubermakesmewet

Rates need to go up, there is a list of people that also do Uber on the side, I pickup drivers often times, and many feel this isn't working, and they're right. Is all in the fare and I think every states is different and the demand for Drivers is going to go up, when the platforms no longer gets a surge of drivers/registration they will try to sweeten the deal for future drivers, at which point I think w/ all the negative press and Uber unsatisfied partners. This isn't going to last long and they may even go out-of-the-way to stay in business. New competitors with more Driver-Mentality and Less 'The Customer is right' approach, is needed. Customers are so much *NOT* always right! Luckily I haven't witness fraudulent or crazy riders.


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## 4.9 driver rating

I work on Friday and Saturday nights only the only time it's worth it


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## Coffeekeepsmedriving

m1a1mg said:


> Wow, you keep typing the same shite over and over and never attempt to read for comprehension.
> 
> Go to your link. OK, with me so far? I know that might be a challenge. The site you link includes costs for finance. If I own my car, am I paying any finance costs?
> 
> I'll just ask one question at a time so as not to stress you out. A simple yes or no will suffice.


Can yoy [please let us know when you quit? because I dont want to quit alone..thanks


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## 1995flyingspur

Fuzzyelvis said:


> After about 1500 trips I can count on one hand the number of people I thought I might actually want to converse with outside of Uber.
> 
> But not one of them tipped. So I don't really want to get to know them either.


LOL!!! Nice post...


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## Potsy

pinnacle said:


> What is the reasonable rate for a driver? , any type of business in NYC requires substantial financial commitment and some kind of skill , on the other hand being a driver doesn't require that much , sure you need to have a decent car, but it doesn't Cost 5k in rent like businesses pay, so you figure the numbers.


Do u wanna live in a well off society or in the slums of India. If people can't make a reasonable income to survive then you will end up with the slums of India option.


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## pinnacle

Yea , it does take lot of hours to make 1 k , I don;t know how some people making 2 k and up , too many tlc cars , supply and damand.


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## Uberwhich

What is the argument of how much we PAY to being a partner?
All I wanted to do was pull out of debt somewhat, and I feel like I didn't realize who I married?!! Uber or Lyft do not tell you everything before you sign to join and yes we are stupid! 
No matter how much you make it's not going to be enough, unless you are rich already.
They do t tell you (in DFW) that you have to get a special for hire inspection which costs 75 to 150 dollars a year. Then you have to get a drivers permit for Dallas which is 53.00 per year. Oh and you have to get commercial life car auto insurance if your regular insurance company may not pay for any damages to your car cause you didn't know you have to tell them that you are using your car for business. My insurance charges 3485.00 per year work that one out. If the cops check you the fines are out of this world not to mention gas, usage of your car. Did I forget anything??


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Uberwhich said:


> What is the argument of how much we PAY to being a partner?
> All I wanted to do was pull out of debt somewhat, and I feel like I didn't realize who I married?!! Uber or Lyft do not tell you everything before you sign to join and yes we are stupid!
> No matter how much you make it's not going to be enough, unless you are rich already.
> They do t tell you (in DFW) that you have to get a special for hire inspection which costs 75 to 150 dollars a year. Then you have to get a drivers permit for Dallas which is 53.00 per year. Oh and you have to get commercial life car auto insurance if your regular insurance company may not pay for any damages to your car cause you didn't know you have to tell them that you are using your car for business. My insurance charges 3485.00 per year work that one out. If the cops check you the fines are out of this world not to mention gas, usage of your car. Did I forget anything??


Uber passengers and drunks are terrible and have no respect for your property.. especially millennials...


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## Steve Humes

Don't just quit. Get some payback. Here's a couple of ideas.

1. IRS: There is a form called SS-8 which is used by an individual to ask the IRS to make a determination on his/her status as an employee or contractor. If this form is filled out properly then the person seeking an employee status will have over a 90% chance of being granted it. The cost of this is *(FREE)* and once the IRS grants you employee status then every state is bound, by law (federal laws trump state laws) to recognize you as an employee. your federal taxes are less, if you were injured driving for Uber you can file workers comp in your state, and you can seek unemployment if you were fired due to false rider reviews. There is a new company called 1099 driver Advocate that helps people fill out these SS-8 forms. Google IRS form SS-8...

2. Vomit, Urine, Feces: If there is a rider incident in your backseat then there is also a new company that is asking rideshare drivers to have their cars cleaned to OSHA biohazard standards. Vomit, Urine, Feces is treated by the CDC and OSHA as certified biohazard incidents. This company, Zyxtor cleaning, is charging up to $10,000 to do the cleaning, the OSHA biohazard reporting, and invoice the rider. Uber can't do a damn thing about this. This is FEDERAL LAW. The rider must submit to blood testing and see a doctor to review their medical history of communicable diseases. Best id done immediately but I'll bet that you can still go after the PAX's no matter how long ago it happened.

The message I am saying is don't go after the deep pocketed Uber. Go after the rider, and let the IRS do your battle for you.


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## JakeZ

Uberwhich said:


> Did I forget anything??


Thanks for the great post. Also, another permit is required for picking up at DFW airport: http://www.driveuberdfw.com/dfw-airport-permit/


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## DCadran

There are pluses and minuses but honestly; if anyone is going into this line of working thinking they're going to make a lot of money... they're deluding them selves. I make maybe around $10-$12 an hour but that's fine with me. It's free time I'd be spending doing nothing anyway. I've also met some pretty awesome people. Some of whom are even my friends now. Again, it's a series of trade offs.


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## thelittleguyhelper

Steve Humes said:


> Don't just quit. Get some payback. Here's a couple of ideas.
> 
> 1. IRS: There is a form called SS-8 which is used by an individual to ask the IRS to make a determination on his/her status as an employee or contractor. If this form is filled out properly then the person seeking an employee status will have over a 90% chance of being granted it. The cost of this is *(FREE)* and once the IRS grants you employee status then every state is bound, by law (federal laws trump state laws) to recognize you as an employee. your federal taxes are less, if you were injured driving for Uber you can file workers comp in your state, and you can seek unemployment if you were fired due to false rider reviews. There is a new company called 1099 driver Advocate that helps people fill out these SS-8 forms. Google IRS form SS-8...


Er...talk to a real lawyer first.

You still have that contract, and you may commit fraud filing with the IRS like this if you have a contract stating you are something else .

The Supreme Court kept crushing State/Federal lawsuits which involve judges or officials overruling contract terms, with even the liberals asking plaintiffs "then why did you sign it?"

Those in the know on these things (except perhaps the lawyers who love to litigate everything) are tired of faithless parties to contracts as well as judges: it just means endless instability. That is also why every case that has come out of California in the last 10 years involving class-actions and arbitration has resulted in the Supreme Court upholding the arbitration status.

And those **included liberal justices affirming the judgment.**

*DO NOT* play legal games just because you're pissed. You may find yourself in very, very bad situations if you do. You need proper legal counsel--and competent counsel given that **if you bring a frivolous suite or are found to be abusing the courts, you can be punished-while your lawyer can also be left-off 'because we don't want to punish them for being creative'** (that last part: actually happened a few years ago).


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## Potsy

pinnacle said:


> I don't understand why people complain, we all know that this job is about driving from point a to point b, and also, since lot of people forgetting that being a driver means that you are uneducated and have no special skills , so you getting payed accordingly , you need to get this through your heads folks.


A line needs to be drawn in the sand below which peoples incomes should not fall. Surely everyone should be able to make enough to feed their families.
Heck, all your manufacturing has already gone to places like china or mexico. Why dont you just import another million of them to work as uber drivers and pay them peanuts then uber can cut rates more so you can get a cheaper ride.
Would that make you happy? Just how far do you want to take this silly argument? America is already in a state of serious decline and you would be happy to push peoples living standards down further and rub their face in the dirt. Do you really think that is the solution?


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