# Deduct a triip



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

If I want to go somewhere to “try it out” for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
how many Uber rides do I have to give.
3 hours away 😀


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


It is customary for Uber Drivers far from home to sleep in their car. Why break tradition by getting a hotel room? :roflmao:


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


I would think you would have to make a serious effort to make it a profitable venture so being online for an hour wouldn't pass the smell test. 
You could however put yourself on destination mode in both directions and deduct the mileage.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I would think you would have to make a serious effort to make it a profitable venture so being online for an hour wouldn't pass the smell test.
> You could however put yourself on destination mode in both directions and deduct the mileage.


I was hoping for 1 quick ride would cover 7 nights  &#128512;


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


Depends,

If we are talking Florida your in the hole and every ride you give puts you deeper in the hole, and then once you think your out of the hole you get the cravings for a bottle of water or a pickled hot dog, then it's another 5 rides to dig yourself out of THAT hole.

Then finally when it feels like your ready to pass out behind the wheel and you crawl into bed in the hotel you'll wake up and find that you came $20 short of covering the hotel...

Then if you have that $20 covered it's time to buy gasoline for your drive home. Another 6 hours and you have half a tank of gas.

Then you roll in back to your home with less gas than when you started and barely paid off your hotel, and totally exhausted.

But that's Florida, anywhere else you'll get slightly more per mile.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


Do you want a real answer, or are you just playing around? Because I really don't want to spend time typing stuff if you are just playing around.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> Do you want a real answer, or are you just playing around? Because I really don't want to spend time typing stuff if you are just playing around.


Real


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

wallae said:


> I was hoping for 1 quick ride would cover 7 nights &#128512;


Molest one of your pax and you can get 7 free nights, ... in jail!


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

wallae said:


> Real


Okay, first let me preface this by saying that I am not a tax professional. What I know comes solely from reading IRS publications, and I am going off of memory here. I didn't bother to go look anything up. So anything that I say should not be considered gospel and should be taken only as a jumping off point for further investigation.

With that said, there is no hard and fast answer to your question. If you're looking for a set number of miles or set number of rides that you need to give in order to be able to deduct your travel expenses, then nobody is going to be able to give you that answer. The IRS regulations aren't that detailed. They tend to give more of a spirit of the law rather than a letter of the law.

You can deduct pretty much anything as long as you don't get audited. Regardless of whether your deduction is legal or illegal, it is only going to get checked if you get audited, so there are really two questions to ask for any deduction.

1. How likely is this deduction to trigger an audit?

2. In the event that I am audited, what documentation or proof do I need in order to substantiate or justify the deduction?

The answer to #1 is going to depend on how typical your deductions are for your profession.  If your deductions are fairly normal for your profession, then the IRS probably isn't going to bother to look closer. If your deductions are unusual for your profession, then it is more likely that the IRS will become suspicious for you. Deducting 20,000 business miles for a rideshare driver probably isn't going to raise suspicion (provided that you are declaring gross earnings commensurate with that amount of mileage). Deducting 20,000 business miles for a daycare operator is probably going to raise suspicions. For a rideshare driver, travel expenses (_not_ transportation expenses, there is a difference in the eyes of the IRS) are probably going to fall outside the realm of deductions that are considered normal, so I would be prepared to substantiate and justify the deductions if I declared them.

So that brings us to question #2. What do you need in order to substantiate or justify the deduction? You need to be able to convince a reasonable, objective person that the primary purpose of the trip was for business. This is a judgment call. If you take a seven-day trip and you give one Uber ride at your destination in that seven-day period and you spend the rest of the time visiting family, sight seeing, doing touristy stuff, etc., I think you would be hard-pressed to find any reasonable, objective person that would believe you when you told them that the primary purpose of the trip was for business. If, during the same seven-day trip, you spent all of your time from the time that you woke up to the time that you went to bed giving Uber rides, I would be inclined to believe that the primary reason that you took the trip was to give Uber rides. Where is the cutoff between these two extremes? It is probably going to depend on who your auditor is as it is a judgment call. Keep in mind, though, that one thing that they are specifically looking for during an audit is personal expenses that are being passed off as business expenses. Given that you have pretty much stated that this is a personal trip that you want to pass off as a business expense, I would be extra careful.

This is the question that I would ask myself. If another driver told me that they took an X-day trip to Location A, and they told me how much time during each day that they spent giving Uber rides, would I believe them when they told me that the primary reason that they took that trip was to give Uber rides? In most cases, that is going to be a pretty hard sell.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

wallae said:


> deduct the trip (hotel)


sorry, how would you justify that to the IRS?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

SHalester said:


> sorry, how would you justify that to the IRS?


Testing the late night market


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

wallae said:


> Testing the late night market


but how is lodging a deduction to merely 'get' to work? Note nobody said you needed to 'go' so it's your decision. Curious how IRS would react to that.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

SHalester said:


> but how is lodging a deduction to merely 'get' to work? Note nobody said you needed to 'go' so it's your decision. Curious how IRS would react to that.


Lodging is a deduction if you travel away from home overnight for a business purpose.

The trick is in convincing the IRS that the reason that you traveled away from home was for a business purpose. For a rideshare driver, that is going to be a pretty tough sell in most cases.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> For a rideshare driver, that is going to be a pretty tough sell in most cases.


exactly my point. Simply travelling to drive around in a different area doesn't pass any smell test. Plus, keep in mind a 'business' is not requesting said travel; the driver is doing on their own.

Inviting an audit is not a wise move.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

You could under the law deduct the travel expenses if you went over X miles on a work trip.


Ie you drove toto Tampa to work the super bowl for a day or 2.


(No fans in the stadium this year it seems)


There’s no set amount of business you would have to do either.


Let’s say you had an 400 mile fare and got a hotel room after dropping the customer off then checked out and went home in the morning.


That’s entirely deductible...


Now if your asking how many rides it would take to pay for a hotel if you drive to the next city over to see how Uber is?


In Orlando I have my doubts you would break even doing x/xl.


Right now I think it’s a terrible idea.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Let's say you had an 400 mile fare and got a hotel room after dropping the customer off then checked out and went home in the morning.


yup, that example would most likely be ok. Best not to do things that will almost guarantee an audit, tho.

Like 'oh, I had to drive a thousand miles to get to a 'busy area' and stayed an entire week'. Nope.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


I'll play along and assume these are verifiable (to the IRS) research expenses(proving this is up to you!). Yes you can deduct 100% of these expenses but only through 2021 thanks to the TCJA. After 2021, you'll have to amortize all research and development costs.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


I drive to Orlando once a month. When I have the time I run with DF set. I try to make sure I do at least 2 trips along the way and one when I get there. Same when I come home. At least then I can write off the miles and tolls. I would not try to claim hotels or meals.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Molest one of your pax and you can get 7 free nights, ... in jail!


Did you mean.... 7 free *years in prison?*


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## Reef64 (Dec 25, 2019)

wallae said:


> If I want to go somewhere to "try it out" for possible rideshare business and deduct the trip (hotel)
> how many Uber rides do I have to give.
> 3 hours away &#128512;


Wouldn't you have to be certified/registered for that area before hand?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

SHalester said:


> yup, that example would most likely be ok. Best not to do things that will almost guarantee an audit, tho.
> 
> Like 'oh, I had to drive a thousand miles to get to a 'busy area' and stayed an entire week'. Nope.


How is that not allowed?

Could a roofer pack up and go to a storm disaster area across the state for a month?

It's a business expense in that case why not if i were to go to Miami for Art Basel, or Daytona Beach for bike week or the Daytona 500 week.

Why couldn't a driver get a cheap motel for Christmas/christmas eve who lives in Miami to work at Disney? This year i think it's a horrible idea, but in 2016 or 2018 it would have paid off.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Why couldn't a driver get a cheap motel for Christmas/christmas eve who lives in Miami to work at Disney?


that example 'might' work, but most likely it wouldn't. But, knock yourself out trying and then waiting for IRS to knock on your mailbox. Too risky and kinda a dumb move. 
But to take a vacation and pretend it was for RS, yeah I think the IRS would catch that.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

SHalester said:


> that example 'might' work, but most likely it wouldn't. But, knock yourself out trying and then waiting for IRS to knock on your mailbox. Too risky and kinda a dumb move.
> But to take a vacation and pretend it was for RS, yeah I think the IRS would catch that.


Actually, I think that a long as you actually did rides you would be fine. Why wouldn't it? Furthermore, you're chance of getting audited is pretty slim and fear of audit should never dissuade you from taking a legitimate deduction. 
I've gone to the outer banks with my wife, stayed at a cheap airbnb hung with her during the day, drove at night, made decent money and deducted the lodging and mileage. I have no problem staring an auditor down on that one.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I've gone to the outer banks with my wife, stayed at a cheap airbnb hung with her during the day, drove at night, made decent money and deducted the lodging and mileage. I have no problem staring an auditor down on that one.


Yet. It's a stretch. And I doubt you could stare down an IRS agent. I'd pay to watch that.

"Yeah, the 5 bedroom BnB was required so I could take $3.50 rides a thousand miles from home"


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

SHalester said:


> Yet. It's a stretch. And I doubt you could stare down an IRS agent. I'd pay to watch that.
> 
> "Yeah, the 5 bedroom BnB was required so I could take $3.50 rides a thousand miles from home"


I respectfully disagree. We don't always make good business decisions, even if they are bad ones they are still deductible. I remember people being lured to the super bowl by uber with promises of riches and not doing well. The trip is still a business expense. I have been audited in person and I did stick to my guns so nothing came of it. That involved a corporate vehicle and personal use. They asked me 3 times at various points if I used the vehicle for any personal business and 3 times I replied no so they dropped it.

As far as the trip to the outer banks, I had approximately $320 in expenses and $350 in revenue. I didn't get a5 br bnb obviously and didn't try to deduct meals. I stand by what I did as reasonable and within the law even if it turned out not to be very lucrative.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I disagree,

We've had multiple people post on the orlando forums about *trying* to uber in orlando while on vacation.

Thankfully we have been able to talk them out of it/no one has been dumb enough to try it, or if they have they didn't admit it.


Thinking you can make $1000 on uber while spending a week at disney?

HA.. yeah sure..


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