# Deactivated today



## ubervictim (Feb 2, 2015)

I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

If you cancelled it, then you accepted it.


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## ubervictim (Feb 2, 2015)

then how do people find out the destination of the rider if you aren't paired to their phone number until you accept the ride? makes no sense


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## ubervictim (Feb 2, 2015)

like what if someone wants to go to ohio from new jersey? i'm required to take them?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

ubervictim said:


> then how do people find out the destination of the rider if you aren't paired to their phone number until you accept the ride? makes no sense


In many cities it's illegal for a taxi to refuse a ride based on the destination as long as it's a destination within the city.

Not that such laws have anything to do with Uber deactivating you, given Uber pretty much ignores laws. But Uber doesn't want drivers cherry picking good destinations from the bad any more than cities want taxi drivers doing the same thing.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

ubervictim said:


> like what if someone wants to go to ohio from new jersey? i'm required to take them?


Uber leaves it up to the drivers discretion to cancel or go ahead and do the trip when the destination is outside of the Uber service area.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Over 900 rides and I have never asked the destination. If there is anyone asking and cherry picking, they deserve being deactivated. That's my humble opinion.


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

easy there big guy in Tampa, you guys didn't get cut off at the knees like some areas ( 75 cents in Orlando )


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

There is a cap on how many you can cancel. 10% or more cancelled rides and you are out. They usually send a warning first though.


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## CJ ASLAN (Sep 13, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> There is a cap on how many you can cancel. 10% or more cancelled rides and you are out. They usually send a warning first though.


I got a text saying I was under 80% acceptance, then a text thereafter telling me to disregard..


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Shine'ola said:


> easy there big guy in Tampa, you guys didn't get cut off at the knees like some areas ( 75 cents in Orlando )


I feel your pain Orlando. if people knew a little bit of math and economics, they would have resisted accepting any ride unless it was a surge. Real question is, why are even drivers out there at these rates. If it is not surging, no one should answer any request at 75 cents a mile.


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## CJ ASLAN (Sep 13, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> I feel your pain Orlando. if people knew a little bit of math and economics, they would gave resisted accepting any ride unless it was a surge. Real question is, why are even drivers out there at these rates. If it is not surging, no one should answer any request at 75 cents a mile.


I currently drive for UberPLUS in LA, uberX is @ $0.90 and I WILL NOT drive UberX @ those rates...so I only accept surging X rates, that's it. Everyone else can suck it.


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## uber_sea (Jan 9, 2015)

it's a blessing in disguise


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

ubervictim said:


> I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


Didn't Uber just say that there is no obligation to provide rides to anyone?


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## The Kid (Dec 10, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> I feel your pain Orlando. if people knew a little bit of math and economics, they would have resisted accepting any ride unless it was a surge. Real question is, why are even drivers out there at these rates. If it is not surging, no one should answer any request at 75 cents a mile.


I've done the math. No way to make a profit at less than $1 per mile.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Didn't Uber just say that there is no obligation to provide rides to anyone?


Cancelling Before knowing the destination is different than to first learn the destination and then pick and choose.. I think this is the real issue. I can ignore a request. But once I accept it, it is a contract. If I decide to find out where pax is going and then cancel because I don't like the trip, this becomes a problem. While you are taking the meat, you leave the scraps to other drivers.

Solution is to not drive if rates are that low. Leave driving to those who can't do the math.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

The Kid said:


> I've done the math. No way to make a profit at less than $1 per mile.
> 
> View attachment 4613


I concur with your math.

However, Uber factors in the square root of negative one to produce their imaginary numbers.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

The Kid said:


> I've done the math. No way to make a profit at less than $1 per mile.
> 
> View attachment 4613


The problem in your math is ... You used the Roman R and not the Greek R in the formula. And you forgot to carry the 1 half way down.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Before knowing the destination is different than to first learn the destination and then pick and choose.. I think this is the real issue. I can ignore a request. But once I accept it is a contract. If I decide to find out where pax is going and then cancel because I don't like the trip, this becomes a problem. While you are taking the meat, you leave the scraps to other drivers.
> 
> Solution is to not drive if rates are that low. Leave driving to those who can't do the math.


No it's not. No where is it stipulated as a contract that I have seen. And let's just say that's the case...then once Uber routes a request through their system, then they have accepted the request.

As said before....Uber explicitly stated there is no requirement to provide a ride. They didn't say under what circumstances.

BTW...I am eating a teriyaki kabob.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> No it's not. No where is it stipulated as a contract that I have seen. And let's just say that's the case...then once Uber routes a request through their system, then they have accepted the request.
> 
> As said before....Uber explicitly stated there is no requirement to provide a ride. They didn't say under what circumstances.
> 
> BTW...I am eating a teriyaki kabob.


You cannot see the destination until you begin the trip.

This alone tells me you are jumping the protocol of accepting a fare to favor your situation with no regard to how the system is designed to work.

I don't think Uber or any other ride share company will be happy with the system used like that. Clearly you are not considerate of the fellow driver that picks up the scraps you don't like either.

Deactivation is well deserved, I won't feel bad the slightest for anyone systematically doing this to improve his bottom line with no regard to any other.


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

How did a rider swear at you if you cancelled?


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> You cannot see the destination until you begin the trip.
> 
> This alone tells me you are jumping the protocol of accepting a fare to favor your situation with no regard to how the system is designed to work.
> 
> ...


Again...all that is not relevant when Uber publicly states there is no requirement, I think the term they used was obligation, to provide rides. Call it cheating, dirty pool, working the system, whatever.

Unless the action is expressly forbidden then Uber has condoned it with their statement.

BTW...this isn't a team sport.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

ReviTULize said:


> How did a rider swear at you if you cancelled?


Maybe it developed like this:
Driver: where are you going?
Pax: down the street to Walmart, is this a problem?
Driver: I prefer longer flat rate fares, so please cancel your request? 
Pax: I am not cancelling, come and ****ing get me or I will complain to Uber!???


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

ReviTULize said:


> How did a rider swear at you if you cancelled?


They probably called his uber number.

People call mine all the time. The confused stripper re cocktail waitress I gave a ride to this morning called me a little while ago to say thanks for helping her out.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

I


UL Driver SF said:


> Again...all that is not relevant when Uber publicly states there is no requirement, I think the term they used was obligation, to provide rides. Call it cheating, dirty pool, working the system, whatever.
> 
> Unless the action is expressly forbidden then Uber has condoned it with their statement.
> 
> BTW...this isn't a team sport.





ubervictim said:


> like what if someone wants to go to ohio from new jersey? i'm required to take them?


this is an extreme example that probably have same likelihood as wining the mega million. Not a good example.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> I
> 
> this is an extreme example that probably have same likelihood as wining the mega million. Not a good example.


You said it was a contract when we accepted the ping. Are you now saying it is ok to break that contract?


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

your thoughts are flawed, my reason is with these rates it's all BS rides, but someone thinks they are all roses


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> You said it was a contract when we accepted the ping. Are you now saying it is ok to break that contract?


Your example is absurd. It doesn't form the right basis for discussion. Is Ohio within NJ?


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Your example is absurd. It doesn't form the right basis for discussion. Is Ohio within NJ?


I'm simply going by what you said.

Next time think before you type.

Now you can either defend your claim or modify it to suit what ever line you are going to sell next.


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## ubervictim (Feb 2, 2015)

actually the other day i took someone 100 miles into CT so it's not that far fetched. and sorry but uber is making us resort to these tactics. i used to be able to make $1500 a week doing uber x and after their cuts not only are we making 30% less but all the fares are garbage < 1 mile because it's comically cheap. now i'm working longer hours and making less. this is my only job because unfortunately a college degree is worth less than toilet paper these days.


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## ubervictim (Feb 2, 2015)

before the price cuts i never would've cancelled a ride, now if i stay in hoboken all day it will take me more than 20 hours to make $200. not to mention the fact that all the riders there abuse the hell out of drivers, which is why i refused the ride of the potty mouth princess


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## MrsUberJax (Sep 2, 2014)

According to the terms and conditions that "we" as drivers have accepted, our obligation begins when we accept the ride. Once we accept the ride, we are obligated to pick up that rider and take them to their destination. As a subcontractor you have the right "not" to accept the ping, but once you accept the ping... you must do the job you were contracted to do. The End.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> I'm simply going by what you said.
> 
> Next time think before you type.
> 
> Now you can either defend your claim or modify it to suit what ever line you are going to sell next.


Your example doesn't pass common sense.
a ride request from NJ to OHIO is not common. Show me one person who actually got such a request. It is a bad example just to prove your point. On the other hand, if you get a 100-150 mile fare, that's not a bad deal. Evn that is very rare. So far the most I have ventured out from pickup location was less than 60 miles. It is extremely rare. If someone asks me to go 700 miles, he is attempting to use the wrong mode of transportation. He should be flying and not ubering. Most likely I would cancel unless I need that trip.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Your example doesn't pass common sense.
> a ride request from NJ to OHIO is not common. Show me one person who actually got such a request. It is a bad example just to prove your point. On the other hand, if you get a 100-150 mile fare, that's not a bad deal. Evn that is very rare. So far the most I have ventured out from pickup location was less than 60 miles. It is extremely rare. If someone asks me to go 700 miles, he is attempting to us the wrong mode of transportation. He should be flying and not ube ring. Most likely I would cancel unless I need that trip.


I'm not the one who tossed it up as an example. I did get a request to drive someone to Las Vegas. I refused. Not that I wasn't willing to go to Vegas. I just didn't want to go with that person. I also refused a rider request to Tahoe.

Complain all you want. It was your claim. Not anyone else's. The only thing I can surmise from all your squirming is that it is now ok to break the contract you say exists even though you chastise others for doing so.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

The reason your not getting much sympathy is that every time you cancel or ignore a ping it goes to the next nearest driver, costing them more dead miles to get your customer, your screwing the rest of us. Your a bus driver, an amateur, the tribe has spoken, goodbye.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> I'm not the one who tossed it up as an example. I did get a request to drive someone to Las Vegas. I refused. Not that I wasn't willing to go to Vegas. I just didn't want to go with that person. I also refused a rider request to Tahoe.
> 
> Complain all you want. It was your claim. Not anyone else's. The only thing I can surmise from all your squirming is that it is now ok to break the contract you say exists even though you chastise others for doing so.


If you are willingly ignoring the Difference between one off cancellations and systemic cancellations I don't even need to beat this dead horse. In your 2 examples it is understandable that you don't take these requests. I have cancelled some trips for various reasons. Rider too drunk and dangerous for example. But if I always ask the destination and cancel on that basis systematically, there lies the problem.

You have been putting a significant effort trying to play word games and win the argument. All I say, if anyone is systematically cancels based on destinations after learning them, this is wrong. One off cancellations are not the norm. But if very high rate of cancellations originate from knowledge of destination, that smells fishy. It is a different story than when you cancel a trip request that comes in with 2 minute ETA and upon acceptance it becomes 22.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> If you are willingly ignoring the Difference between one off cancellations and systemic cancellations I don't event need to beat this dead horse. In your 2 examples it is understandable that you don't take these requests. I have cancelled some trips for various reasons. Rider too drunk and dangerous for example. But if I always ask the destination and cancel on that basis systematically, there lies the problem.
> 
> You have been putting a significant effort trying to play word games and win the argument. All I say, if anyone is systematically cancels based on destinations after learning them, this is wrong. One off cancellations are not the norm. But if very high rate of cancellations originate from knowledge of destination, that smells fishy. It is a different story than when you cancel a trip request that comes ion with 2 minute ETA and upon acceptance it becomes 22.


Yet here you are beating it. You either stand by what ya said or don't. Your choice. Being a hypocrite isn't always a bad thing.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> The reason your not getting much sympathy is that every time you cancel or ignore a ping it goes to the next nearest driver, costing them more dead miles to get your customer, your screwing the rest of us. Your a bus driver, an amateur, the tribe has spoken, goodbye.


If your post is directed at me you might want to re read the thread. Your making assumption based on no facts.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

I always read the thread before I post, yes I'm talking to you. What your doing is technically called redlining, it's illegal in many markets, not to mention unethical. If you accept a ping your accepting the ride, everyone has one or two legit cancels a week, but your doing the most basic amateur cherry picking there is, and playing annoying word games with respected members who are giving you good answers that you don't like because you don't agree with them. 

Only asked this once before but collective ignore?


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> I always read the thread before I post, yes I'm talking to you. What your doing is technically called redlining, it's illegal in many markets, not to mention unethical. If you accept a ping your accepting the ride, everyone has one or two legit cancels a week, but your doing the most basic amateur cherry picking there is, and playing annoying word games with respected members who are giving you good answers that you don't like because you don't agree with them.
> 
> Only asked this once before but collective ignore?


Then you didn't read it closely....look...I can't help it if you can't understand context or even actually understand what you read. So my suggestion is go back and see if you can find where I said I did this sort of thing on a regular basis if at all. You're gonna look pretty stupid once you can't post up the evidence.

My comment was simple...it's silly for Uber to backtrack on their own claim that there is no obligation to provide rides. 
Uber said this in COURT. It is now testimony entered as an argument for their case. To turn around and punish drivers for following their ARGUMENT IN COURT is stupid at best.

As for redlining you might want to look that term up...because what you described isn't it. Another strike against your intelligence and ability to grasps concepts.

LastLyft the silly person you are defending stated you have a contract with every ping you accept. This is patently false. And once called on that claim with an example....all the sudden she is back peddling as fast as she can.

Read slower. If you can't understand the material just ask. But don't be stupid. You're just looking worse than usual this time.

Oh...and one more thing....collective ignore? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Are you one of those that wants everyone to do what YOU think they should do? Typical. Yer in jr high aren't ya?


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Jr High? Not enough uses in the posts of the word idiot to qualify. Sorry.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Jr High? Not enough uses in the posts of the word idiot to qualify. Sorry.


Well...ya gotta cut him at least a little break. He obviously has issues with being truthful in his posts.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

ubervictim said:


> I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


Uber's rules are 85% minimum acceptance rate.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Cancelling Before knowing the destination is different than to first learn the destination and then pick and choose.. I think this is the real issue. I can ignore a request. But once I accept it, it is a contract. If I decide to find out where pax is going and then cancel because I don't like the trip, this becomes a problem. While you are taking the meat, you leave the scraps to other drivers.
> 
> Solution is to not drive if rates are that low. Leave driving to those who can't do the math.


Accepting a trip is not a "contract" with the rider in the legal sense because the rider is not your client, it is Uber's, so any contract is between the rider and Uber, not you. You are under contract to service Uber's customers with an 85% minimum acceptance rate. If you take all the cherries from the bowl, you leave more duds for others.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Originator of the thread describes how he only picks certain fares and cancels all others systematically as this is the only way to make profit in this business.

If trip cancellations are systematic as described, then driver must be cancelling a very high rate of trips upon learning the destination. This practice clearly has been found unacceptable and driver has been deactivated. I have no sympathy for the driver. He earned every bit of what he got.

To those who come to the defense of the thread creator and play word games: you too might have a pain point and might be doing the same practice. Clearly you are afraid you might be deactivated. Thus the fixation on the word 'contract'. In your way of thinking, all you need to prove and get from me is to tell you 'it is ok to bridge a contract and cancel a trip'. And you will take this and apply logic to conclude: 'if it is ok to cancel A trip, it must be ok to cancel ANOTHER trip, and ANOTHER and many more based on my filtering criteria that includes finding out destination and using it as one of the criteria'. This is bull shit. If all drivers do that, can you imagine the chaos and controversy? It will leave worst trips to those drivers that don't do such filtering.

You cannot defend a systematic trip elimination solely based on destination filtering.

We all cancel about 10% of trips due to many understandable and out of control conditions such as Estimated ETA (prior to accepting trip) and Real ETA (after accepting the trip) being too far apart to make the trip meaningful (notice, here you still don't know the destination), blocked roads, technical difficulties, rude passenger and poor passenger interaction prior to pick up and even during the ride. These are all understandable. It is a human relations business and sometimes poor interaction or possibility of it is enough to cancel a trip. Not even 1 in 500 trips is cancelled because of destination.

In your example you say what if somebody wants to go from NJ to OHIO. this is plain stupid hyperbolic example to magnify the condition that may warrant you the right to cancel the trip. This is not a real scenario. A bad example cannot be basis for understanding the conditions surrounding the deactivated driver.

I don't think this post will help you understand since you are fixated on some word games. As much as we hate the rating system and Uber rules, I hope eventually they create the mechanisms to weed out the faul payers in this business.

I will not feel bad for anyone being deactivated for cherry picking fares Systematically based on knowledge of destination. Period.

Enough said. If you are not getting it, continue with the practice, leave the scraps to unsuspecting other drivers, 'this is not a team sport' as you say, but it is not the right thing to do either.

Good luck with whatever you do until caught. I don't think anyone from the driver community will feel bad for somebody deactivated because of such systematic trip selection.


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## ShortBusDriver (Jan 6, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> Originator of the thread describes how he only picks certain fares and cancels all others systematically as this is the only way to make profit in this business.
> 
> If trip cancellations are systematic as described, then driver must be cancelling a very high rate of trips upon learning the destination. This practice clearly has been found unacceptable and driver has been deactivated. I have no sympathy for the driver. He earned every bit of what he got.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Even better would be giving drivers with high acceptance rating the ping first - within a reasonable distance from low acceptance drivers. I too have never called and asked for the destination- I may call to verify the pick up address - but that's it. If I hear from a pax that they have been canceled - I ask if the driver called and asked their destination - I instruct them to email Uber and let them know. I'm not picking up scraps from some amateur cab like operator that cherry picks.

Deactivate them!


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

ubervictim said:


> I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


Key is, "which rides they accept", you accepted them all and canceled on people after the fact.


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## 49matrix (Feb 3, 2015)

Don't know what equipment you're using but with my Uber iphone, I don't know where the rider is going until I "Start The Trip" and if the rider has not put their destination in when they requested the ride, you have to ask. If you cancel then you have a pissed off, would be, rider and you have to justify why you cancelled. At some point you will reach the point where Uber has tracked your cancellations and decided, based on some algorithm, that your contract will be cancelled.

In this business you take the rough with the smooth and the BS as it gets dished out from above. If you want to be a cherry picker you'll have a limited work experience. Deactivating was probably a good thing.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

Frankly, Uber has made it so difficult to profit from this venture, nobody should consider "cherry picking" wrong. The fact is, NOBODY should have to take a ride that does not pay. This is Uber's problem. Uber doesn't care if you pay to drive the rider to their destination, but it is not your responsibility to transport people without being compensated. Regardless of where you work for Uber today, you are not making money. All you are doing is making Uber money at your expense. I agree with UberXTampa says about "cherry picking" until I discovered that I have not made any profit at all from Uber for months. I worked 4 hours recently, after Uber took their cut and I paid my expenses there was $11.00 left. That means I was working for $2.75 per hour. 

This is ridiculous, non of the rideshares are paying enough to even make a livable wage. Isn't that in itself illegal. There has to be some Labor Code or Business Code violation in this situation. The rideshares have us bound by contract that allows them to lower rates to the degree that we are actually paying to drive the riders. Contrary to popular opinion this has got to be illegal. It is not our responsibility to transport riders for free or without actual real compensation. 

Are you people aware that Uber pays their internal employees an obscene income that includes all benefits and even unlimited vacations while they pay us, the income earners less than it costs to do the job. I know it will probably be a pain in the ass to do, but I suggest everybody keep a clipboard handy and record all of your activity like actual driving miles between riders, sitting time, mileage at ping to rider pickup, and anything else that might be useful to demonstrate that non of the RideShare companies are paying any kind of livable wage. 

You do not have to agree with me, but you will if you do your math correctly.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

" I was working for $2.75 per hour. "

Why are you even working? Common sense says you shouldn't . You shouldn't be working so a surge kicks in and those who are in the business benefit from the surge.
you cannot work the system like that. If you do, deactivation is inevitable. Uber has all bases covered and they can detect cherry picking. This is how they deactivated people.
As long as you are working these extremely low rates, Uber will think it is OK to lower the bar even more. solution is not cherry picking. Just stop work until rates surge. Pick a surge ride and if there is no surge, turn off app.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Interesting viewpoints, let me add some dust to the cloud!

As far as I can tell, in my area, driving for the guarantee is the way to go. One short trip per hour online then doing your best to hide the rest of the time. Longer trips are a loss here unless you have a return pax. I think it's wrong to accept a call and ask for a destination and cancel if it doesn't suit you. That leaves people hanging and lowers your accept rate (they charge driver cancels to you). BUT if I were still driving I would be very tempted to refuse calls for drop off to the airport. It's 12 or 14 miles away with a net fare of maybe $13 (and you have to either wait around for another fare or go home empty) and it's illegal for us to drop off or pick up at the airport. I may be an inexpensive ***** but doing something illegal for such a low price, not a good move and I would think valid grounds for cancellation.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> Accepting a trip is not a "contract" with the rider in the legal sense because the rider is not your client, it is Uber's, so any contract is between the rider and Uber, not you. You are under contract to service Uber's customers with an 85% minimum acceptance rate.





Rich Brunelle said:


> Frankly, Uber has made it so difficult to profit from this venture, nobody should consider "cherry picking" wrong. The fact is, NOBODY should have to take a ride that does not pay. This is Uber's problem. Uber doesn't care if you pay to drive the rider to their destination, but it is not your responsibility to transport people without being compensated. Regardless of where you work for Uber today, you are not making money. All you are doing is making Uber money at your expense. I agree with UberXTampa says about "cherry picking" until I discovered that I have not made any profit at all from Uber for months. I worked 4 hours recently, after Uber took their cut and I paid my expenses there was $11.00 left. That means I was working for $2.75 per hour.
> 
> This is ridiculous, non of the rideshares are paying enough to even make a livable wage. Isn't that in itself illegal. There has to be some Labor Code or Business Code violation in this situation. The rideshares have us bound by contract that allows them to lower rates to the degree that we are actually paying to drive the riders. Contrary to popular opinion this has got to be illegal. It is not our responsibility to transport riders for free or without actual real compensation.
> 
> ...


I disagree because "picking only the good cherries from the bowl only leaves more bad ones for everyone else".

While I agree Uber's rates are not enough for driving to be profitable, do anything you can to max your profit, but that one.

What you can do, and what I do, work the areas according to your driving style.
Some areas produce longer trips, but there more driving distance and fewer trips.
Other areas produce far more trips, less driving distance, and shorter trips.
While gaurantee is in force, the latter makes more sense. Without it, it doesn't really matter, take your pick.

Nothing wrong with cherry picking zones, just don't cherry pick trips.
You are pissing in pond that everyone swims in, and that's not fair to other drivers.

I think some of your bookeeping suggestions are uneccessary,
but bookkeeping purposes, what I do is

Just:
1. record starting and ending miles, and the difference, This is your total miles.
2. Add up all trip miles at the end of the shift, this info is on your dashboard.
3. Now you hae a picture of paid miles versus total miles, and you can create a ratio.
4. Add up total hours on the road servicing uber. ( Uber only pays gaurantee when app is on, sometimes one has to turn it off to leave an area they
do not want to work in, but Ubr doesn't pay gaurantee for that time, which I feel is wrong ).

From the above, one can create a profit and loss statement, either itemizing expenses or using the IRS deduction.

Gross income:
less:

IRS deduction or itemize expenses
( if you are leasing, probably better to itemize ).

At current rates, you will probably find that you are working for less than minimum wage, but you already knew that.

I am currently grossing ( my pay from Uber ) before deductions, about $125 a night for 10 hours of servicing Uber customers. This is with the gaurantee.
The gaurantee only added $60 to my total (for a weeks' pay -- I try to gross as much as possible, anyway, so I come close to the guarantee ), last week.
Without the gaurantee, it's about $100 per night.

This is recipe for failure, on every level. $100 a shift is about what it costs to operate a vehicle, and that's being generous.
I need to double that to be sustainable to even have a modest living.
It was double that when I started, at $2 per mile, now it is $1 per mile.
I am looking for work elsewhere. That's sad, because I had hopes that Uber was going to be a nice way to earn a living,
but now that's not possible, unless Uber changes it's pricing policy for the better.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

You know I always see these threads about people say what they will do and what they won't do. Fact is you are a driver who is the closest to the PAX. You don't know the destination till you start a trip. If you do that before arriving or you ask for the destination you will be subject to review and cancelation on the system. It's simple...you try and work the system to your advantage there are 10 others just doing the way Uber wants. There is no love loss when they kick you off.

No cab driver knows where a person wants to go in a street hail situation. Why should you....because the rates are too low?

I see countless rider tweets to Uber support all the time complaining about this same thing. You get reported, you get your warning, you do it again even if it's legitimate and you get canned.

I think you should focus on that ride that was 15 feet away and made you $40 than the ones that sucked. You will be far more productive in the long run.

Sometimes it was that short trip that sucked that put me in a prime location for the big fare I was no where near.

Take the good with the bad....you fellow Taxi drivers had to deal with much worse issues.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

By that logic, I should be happy that I get one good paying run that shows promise even though the other nine runs cost me more than i made? So, how much do you get paid per hour? As i am an independent contractor per Uber, is it legal for me to hire me and not pay myself at least minimum wage? Can I as an Independent Contractor hire someone else to drive my Uber car and pay them less than minimum wage? Why is it legal for Uber to contract us to work for less than it takes to do the job? There has to be some sort of law violation that speaks to this exploitation of drivers.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> No it's not. No where is it stipulated as a contract that I have seen. And let's just say that's the case...then once Uber routes a request through their system, then they have accepted the request.
> 
> As said before....Uber explicitly stated there is no requirement to provide a ride. They didn't say under what circumstances.
> 
> BTW...I am eating a teriyaki kabob.


I honestly don't know what Uber has said in court and what the full context of that statement was. What I do know is what's in my Sublicense Agreement which states:

"You shall have no obligation to the Company to accept any Request. Following acceptance of a Request, however, you must perform the Request in accordance with the User's specifications. Failure to provide promised services on an accepted Request shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement, and may subject you to damages."

My understanding is that once I accept a ride, it's my obligation to complete that ride even if it's a potential loss (with the exception of requests to leave the service area).


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I honestly don't know what Uber has said in court and what the full context of that statement was. What I do know is what's in my Sublicense Agreement which states:
> 
> "You shall have no obligation to the Company to accept any Request. Following acceptance of a Request, however, you must perform the Request in accordance with the User's specifications. Failure to provide promised services on an accepted Request shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement, and may subject you to damages."
> 
> My understanding is that once I accept a ride, it's my obligation to complete that ride even if it's a potential loss (with the exception of requests to leave the service area).


What if you doing it is illegal? Like a trip to the airport for those who do not have permit yet.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What if you doing it is illegal? Like a trip to the airport for those who do not have permit yet.


Isn't your question and its answer contained in the same sentence? Sick of word games! This statement in your question is the exact words to the customer and issue is resolved. We have been talking about slightly different cancellation scenario if you have noticed.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I honestly don't know what Uber has said in court and what the full context of that statement was. What I do know is what's in my Sublicense Agreement which states:
> 
> "You shall have no obligation to the Company to accept any Request. Following acceptance of a Request, however, you must perform the Request in accordance with the User's specifications. Failure to provide promised services on an accepted Request shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement, and may subject you to damages."
> 
> My understanding is that once I accept a ride, it's my obligation to complete that ride even if it's a potential loss (with the exception of requests to leave the service area).


Yup. I have seen that. So what?

Again.... You should go back and 're read my posts.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Isn't your question and its answer contained in the same sentence? Sick of word games! This statement in your question is the exact words to the customer and issue is resolved. We have been talking about slightly different cancellation scenario if you have noticed.


I read the entire thread. Who pissed in your cornflakes?


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I read the entire thread. Who pissed in your cornflakes?


Uber.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> By that logic, I should be happy that I get one good paying run that shows promise even though the other nine runs cost me more than i made? So, how much do you get paid per hour? As i am an independent contractor per Uber, is it legal for me to hire me and not pay myself at least minimum wage? Can I as an Independent Contractor hire someone else to drive my Uber car and pay them less than minimum wage? Why is it legal for Uber to contract us to work for less than it takes to do the job? There has to be some sort of law violation that speaks to this exploitation of drivers.


But this is where the contract comes into play. The part in the contract where Uber clearly states that the fare their app (remember, all they do is provide an app/referral service) that fare is *merely a suggestion*. The transaction is solely between you and the passenger and you are free to negotiate a different rate. Go ahead and read the contract, it's quite amazing. After telling you that you have the right to negotiate a different rate, they go on to bullet list examples of doing this. Mind you, the examples only talk about negotiating a LOWER rate if you want to. They are examples meant to lead you away from what was just stated a few sentences ago. You are free to negotiate UP as well, according to the contract, but why would they tell you that?

The problem? The part in the contract that says they can deactivate you at will for any reason without notice. In other words, the rest of the agreement is just fluff except for the parts that benefit Uber.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

IANAL, but I believe that any "contract" can be modified with agreed upon new language even though it's not technically in the original contract, such as a later email, that updates a contract. 
By virtue of the fact that Uber allows a driver to cancel a ride on the App, it's now in your "contract", to allow for cancellations.
It's a nobrainer, and why are you even creating this thread?


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## Chris Dee (Nov 19, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Over 900 rides and I have never asked the destination. If there is anyone asking and cherry picking, they deserve being deactivated. That's my humble opinion.


Wait a minute.... how do you know where to go if you never ask the destination ? don't tell me you're one of those telepathy types and can read minds?


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Chris Dee said:


> Wait a minute.... how do you know where to go if you never ask the destination ? don't tell me you're one of those telepathy types and can read minds?


Smartass!


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> By that logic, I should be happy that I get one good paying run that shows promise even though the other nine runs cost me more than i made? So, how much do you get paid per hour? As i am an independent contractor per Uber, is it legal for me to hire me and not pay myself at least minimum wage? Can I as an Independent Contractor hire someone else to drive my Uber car and pay them less than minimum wage? Why is it legal for Uber to contract us to work for less than it takes to do the job? There has to be some sort of law violation that speaks to this exploitation of drivers.


Are you getting the winter guarantees where you live? I'm trying to minimize my rides, thus miles on my car to get the guarantee. I'm often tempted just to work like when I started, try to get as many fares and make as much as I can, but hustling on one day ends up being a waste, because I could have made the same (taking expenses into account) as if I just chilled.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

TeleSki said:


> Are you getting the winter guarantees where you live? I'm trying to minimize my rides, thus miles on my car to get the guarantee. I'm often tempted just to work like when I started, try to get as many fares and make as much as I can, but hustling on one day ends up being a waste, because I could have made the same (taking expenses into account) as if I just chilled.


You are failing to answer the actual question. As an Independent Contractor, Uber does not have the right to modify my earnings on their product to create a "loss" in my earnings unless I am an employee and Uber cannot expect me to suffer their loss. As an Independent Contractor, can I hire somebody to work for me and pay them a wage for doing so? I should be able to do so, but Uber has reduced their rates to such a degree that I cannot pay myself, nor pay an employee to do the work. ( Shit, I need an Attorney!)


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> You are failing to answer the actual question. As an Independent Contractor, Uber does not have the right to modify my earnings on their product to create a "loss" in my earnings unless I am an employee and Uber cannot expect me to suffer their loss. As an Independent Contractor, can I hire somebody to work for me and pay them a wage for doing so? I should be able to do so, but Uber has reduced their rates to such a degree that I cannot pay myself, nor pay an employee to do the work. ( Shit, I need an Attorney!)


You are right!

You make a good point, which all of us agree with.

Solution to an undesired situation is not to work it as if you are smarter than all other drivers, but to protest it by not accepting the dictated conditions.

*Just Shut the App Off!*


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> IANAL, but I believe that any "contract" can be modified with agreed upon new language even though it's not technically in the original contract, such as a later email, that updates a contract.
> By virtue of the fact that Uber allows a driver to cancel a ride on the App, it's now in your "contract", to allow for cancellations.
> It's a nobrainer, and why are you even creating this thread?


I wrote this as a new thread to discuss this from a different angle. How is Uber able to modify their rates eliminating the earnings I receive in use of their product. They are charging their client but not paying me. How can Uber or any of the rideshares legally charge rates that reduce my earnings if I am an Independent Contractor? We are all *****ing about the lowered rates, but nobody seems to be able to tell me how Uber is able to modify their sales to exclude adequate payment for drivers, but how can they do this without it requiring some process of law.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> I wrote this as a new thread to discuss this from a different angle. How is Uber able to modify their rates eliminating the earnings I receive in use of their product. They are charging their client but not paying me. How can Uber or any of the rideshares legally charge rates that reduce my earnings if I am an Independent Contractor? We are all *****ing about the lowered rates, but nobody seems to be able to tell me how Uber is able to modify their sales to exclude adequate payment for drivers, but how can they do this without it requiring some process of law.


I will tell you how:

Because they can and because there are still drivers driving.

Stop driving or stop *****ing. If you drive and ***** Uber will not make any changes as it will see things are working and numbers are adding up in their bank account.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> You are right!
> 
> You make a good point, which all of us agree with.
> 
> ...


I would much rather that one of these other "smart" drivers explain to me, by what authority does Uber have the lawful right to do so? And, I have already reduced my driving to a level that I only seek to keep my use of the app from falling inactive.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> I would much rather that one of these other "smart" drivers explain to me, by what authority does Uber have the lawful right to do so? And, I have already reduced my driving to a level that I only seek to keep my use of the app from falling inactive.


You don't get it!

You will not get it. Whenever you run out of words, you and some other people start name calling. this shows who is smart.


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

I'm sure there is something in their contract when you signed on, that states rates may change without notice and you consent to it. Or you consent to drive for the fees they set, which may change at any time. I'm sure with all the money they have, they were able to write contracts which permit this. David Plouffe who was the man behind Obama's whole "Hope and Change" strategy is the SVP of Strategy and Planning for Uber. He fooled a lot of people before, don't see why he wouldn't be able to do it again.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> You don't get it!
> 
> You will not get it. Whenever you run out of words, you and some other people start name calling. this shows who is smart.


What don't I get. Where in our contract with Uber does it say they can cut our profit in use of their product? I know they arer bullying us and it won't change as long as other drivers drive, but that is not my question. Okay let's try it this way . . . Unless we can see how Uber can modify our income by use of their product and their doing so is legal, why don't we file for some kind of immediate relief through the courts.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

TeleSki said:


> I'm sure there is something in their contract when you signed on, that states rates may change without notice and you consent to it. Or you consent to drive for the fees they set, which may change at any time. I'm sure with all the money they have, they were able to write contracts which permit this. David Plouffe who was the man behind Obama's whole "Hope and Change" strategy is the SVP of Strategy and Planning for Uber. He fooled a lot of people before, don't see why he wouldn't be able to do it again.


But, is their doing so legal? If not can we seek immediate relief through the courts?


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> But, is their doing so legal? If not can we seek immediate relief through the courts?


I'm sure it's legal. The company I work for has numerous independent contractors. We change/lower rates sometimes. If they company doesn't want to do the work for less, they decline, and we give it to someone else.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A COPY OF THE CONTRACT?


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> DOES ANYBODY HAVE A COPY OF THE CONTRACT?


Yes...You do! Go to your driver dashboard, click on "profile", and it's at the bottom under "contracts". At least that's how it is on my dashboard.

An exert from my version of the contract, under "Service Fees":
"Before any change to the rates set forth in the Service Fee Schedule may become effective, the Company shall provide notice of such change(s) to you via email, your mobile application or other written means."

When they changed the Service Fee Schedule, you were not allowed to go online until you agreed to that new schedule. No agreeing to their new terms meant not driving for them. That's how they are able to legally lower your compensation. I hate it as much as you do, but if we want to do this, we kinda have to play by their rules. If and when enough good drivers decide they can't afford to play by these new rules, then maybe Uber will reconsider (but I highly doubt it).

What gets me here is that you obviously haven't ever looked at the contract you agreed to operate under, which is why you're asking if anyone has a copy. That's rather sad in my opinion, as you question how they can do this to you as an Independent Contractor, yet you have no idea what contract you've agreed to operate under. Blows my mind, honestly!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> But, is their doing so legal? If not can we seek immediate relief through the courts?


Its unregulated. Of course its legal. Why do you think many years ago taxi's became regulated. One was to prevent this very thing.

They can do what they want because its not against the law to set whatever price you like. Its their product and you are just the salesman. No one forces you to work for Uber. Its completely legal.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisInABQ said:


> Yes...You do! Go to your driver dashboard, click on "profile", and it's at the bottom under "contracts". At least that's how it is on my dashboard.
> 
> An exert from my version of the contract, under "Service Fees":
> "Before any change to the rates set forth in the Service Fee Schedule may become effective, the Company shall provide notice of such change(s) to you via email, your mobile application or other written means."
> ...


Yes, I have a copy of my contract but it seems as though nobody else is looking at theirs, just answering my questions without looking to see if what they say is even correct. Have you ever received an email or anything other than the notice as the phone updates the app? I cannot recall anything other than the app updates.


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Its unregulated. Of course its legal. Why do you think many years ago taxi's became regulated. One was to prevent this very thing.
> 
> They can do what they want because its not against the law to set whatever price you like. Its their product and you are just the salesman. No one forces you to work for Uber. Its completely legal.


What I am stuck on is, how can Uber reduce their rates to below what it costs us to service the ride? There has got to be something that requires that the driver is able to maintain as positive income from this, doesn't there? Did we all just sign the damn contract believing Uber to have ethics. I did, but I'm a dumbass. I expected so much better from the rest of you.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

Actually Uber clearly says this :

Choose when you drive, *where you go, and who you pick up.*

So if they deactivated you "confirmed for that reason"
then it's time for them to change the information they try to "bait'n recruit" new drivers
*
I took a screenshot from : https://get.uber.com/drive/








*


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Cancelling Before knowing the destination is different than to first learn the destination and then pick and choose.. I think this is the real issue. I can ignore a request. But once I accept it, it is a contract. If I decide to find out where pax is going and then cancel because I don't like the trip, this becomes a problem. While you are taking the meat, you leave the scraps to other drivers.
> 
> Solution is to not drive if rates are that low. Leave driving to those who can't do the math.


I "liked" when you said "leave driving to those who can't make the math"
 that's very true.. it's simply not worth it anymore.

It was cool in the beginning but now I read so much disguisting experiences that other fellow drivers are posting.
I'm glad to not drive anymore. I hope the quality of service goes down a lot more.
Hopefully gas goes up soon too.

I wish gas would be around European prices, then the freeways wouldn't be that much crowded  "poor people sicken me.."

(not to be taken serious my friends.. I'm just a poor guy as well.. but ironic sometimes..)


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

TeleSki said:


> David Plouffe who was the man behind Obama's whole "Hope and Change" strategy is the SVP of Strategy and Planning for Uber. He fooled a lot of people before, don't see why he wouldn't be able to do it again.


We all Know most politicians and their cohorts work for themselves.. But if stereotypes are true, would not UBER drivers want a liberal soicialist in charge rather than Karl Rove?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> No it's not. No where is it stipulated as a contract that I have seen. And let's just say that's the case...then once Uber routes a request through their system, then they have accepted the request.
> 
> As said before....Uber explicitly stated there is no requirement to provide a ride. They didn't say under what circumstances.
> 
> BTW...I am eating a teriyaki kabob.


 You spelled it wrong. It's terry yakki kebab.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

elelegido said:


> You spelled it wrong. It's terry yakki kebab.


Spelled wrong or right...it's my new go to early dinner once a week.

Then again, I could just make my own and not have to leave the house. But at $8 it's a pretty good deal.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> You are right!
> 
> You make a good point, which all of us agree with.
> 
> ...


Just delete the app. So Uber knows drivers really quit.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Delete the app or Uber can trace your every move. Location services is always on whether you've tapped the app or not.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> But once I accept it, it is a contract.


What contract?


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> I wrote this as a new thread to discuss this from a different angle. How is Uber able to modify their rates eliminating the earnings I receive in use of their product. They are charging their client but not paying me. How can Uber or any of the rideshares legally charge rates that reduce my earnings if I am an Independent Contractor? We are all *****ing about the lowered rates, but nobody seems to be able to tell me how Uber is able to modify their sales to exclude adequate payment for drivers, but how can they do this without it requiring some process of law.


Well, I"m all for a law to prevent them. They say we are independent contractors, but I thought prices were negotiated with independent contractors.
Since prices are not negotiated, how can we be independent contractors? A judge is ruling on this very issue, right now.

to be profitable, we really need at least $2 per mile.


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## ubervictim (Feb 2, 2015)

they should change their name from uber to loophole


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## Hotep31 (Jan 24, 2015)

Shine'ola said:


> easy there big guy in Tampa, you guys didn't get cut off at the knees like some areas ( 75 cents in Orlando )


Why are you still driving? Lol


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> Well, I"m all for a law to prevent them. They say we are independent contractors, but I thought prices were negotiated with independent contractors.
> Since prices are not negotiated, how can we be independent contractors? A judge is ruling on this very issue, right now.
> 
> to be profitable, we really need at least $2 per mile.


Prices don't have to be negotiated. They put up on offer (uber or other businesses) and if you don't want to work at the price they offer, you don't work for them.


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## UberxD (Aug 4, 2014)

ubervictim said:


> I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


If you cancelled / ignored the requests. How are you able to hear the rider squaring at you? It seems like you are accepting ride, then calling passengers and asking them where they are going. You can pick and choose the pings. Just not accept a ping, call passenger for destination and then cancelling if it isn't where you want to go.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

observer said:


> Just delete the app. So Uber knows drivers really quit.


Or send them a email like I did to deactivate my account due to recent rate cuts.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Txchick said:


> Or send them a email like I did to deactivate my account due to recent rate cuts.


That's even better, the whole point is to make Uber aware drivers are quitting not just staying off the app.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

ubervictim said:


> I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


UberVictim, can you please clear something for me up? how are you finding out where the Rider is going? Are you accepting the Ping then calling the Rider and asking the Destination, then if you dont like the answer cancel on them?? Can you clarify this in specific details please.

There used to be a way to find out where theRider was going on the WayBill reciept once we figure that out. UBER immediately deleted it and changed it. Its very clear that Uber does not want you to know the Destination and you have to stay in a 10% cancel acceptance. By myself listening to you , you had to of had a 90% cancel rate. Please clarify my question first please.


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## robertc21 (Jun 18, 2015)

Shine'ola said:


> easy there big guy in Tampa, you guys didn't get cut off at the knees like some areas ( 75 cents in Orlando )


DAmn 75c in orlando! that is crazy... I thought it was bad here in nj with $1.10m. no way you can make a penny at 75 cents


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

robertc21 said:


> DAmn 75c in orlando! that is crazy... I thought it was bad here in nj with $1.10m. no way you can make a penny at 75 cents


No fun in the Dallas TX market either Uber X $1.00 per mile $4.00 minimum no base fare with surges non-existent.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Same in Sac like Dallas....but Jesus 75 cents a mile is anyone working for Uber in Orlando. Doesn't make sense


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## MrsUberJax (Sep 2, 2014)

Uber's terms of service clearly state that we (drivers) have a choice whether or not to accept the ride based on the information provided to us: (Pax Name, Rating, Estimated time in minutes to pickup) we have less than 10 seconds to make that decision. Once we accept that ping, however, we are obligated under the terms of service to provide transportation to the rider. We make our choice before we accept the ping. All of you guys out there that are screening your calls are violating the terms of your agreement with Uber. I am a driver and a rider, it is really slimy when a driver calls and asks what my destination is - I'm 5 minutes away- you wanna pick me up or what- are you doing the freaking job or not- drivers who screen their pickups are giving us all a bad name. Slimy bottom feeders if you ask me - no better than the cabbies who "illegally" cherry pick their rides. If the pax is a reasonable distance from you, you are given a choice & once you accept the ping - you should be doing the damn job.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Well yea , your correct. Thats why his acceptance rate was off and thats why he got deactivated. Dont have to worry about him no more. Probaly hese better off, sounded like he only wanted to cherry pick. 

Can i ask you , how many times has a uber driver called you and ask your destination does it happen alot more than i think??? And whwn it happens to you do you rate them low??


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

MrsUberJax said:


> ... it is really slimy when a driver calls and asks what my destination is...


Don't judge everyone else based on YOUR particular circumstance and experience. In MANY cities and areas, the geography is very large and there are few drivers available. That means driver's are often being pinged to drive 15 minutes at their own expense in order to receive $2.40 - before expenses - in order to provide a min fare ride. If UberX fares weren't so low, it wouldn't be nearly the same equation, but *as it stands now, a driver may have no choice but to screen rides or run the very high risk of losing money*.


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## MrsUberJax (Sep 2, 2014)

Just my honest opinion. Disagree if you wish. If you Can't figure out how to make a profit- you shouldn't be driving. Jacksonville- where I drive is the largest city in the country- geographically speaking- 2nd only to anchorage- so don't tell me about length of pickups- you either do the job or you don't. Half measures, give us all a bad name. The fewer the drivers the more money you can make. X gets .75 a mile here, & XL gets $1.55. Uber on.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

MrsUberJax said:


> If you can't afford the costs- you shouldn't be driving.


Possibly one of the very silliest statements I've ever seen posted here. (no offense... just my opinion, really)

You call it a "JOB" but then say that if you can't afford to subsidize uber's operations, you shouldn't be driving.

*That's not a JOB. 
That's an investment -*
an investment that makes sense ONLY if there is the possibility of an upside reward to the risk.

*Driving UberX, in many cases (if not most) has ZERO upside possibility. 
It's a long-term money loser.*

It's not a job - it's an opportunity...
and THAT is how Uber set it up and that is how it operates.
*Drivers should NEVER operate within the driving opportunity in a fashion in which they lose money. *
Doing so is the definition of stupidity.

I agree that cancelling requests sucks - for everyone.
But it is Uber's systems and policies that put drivers in that position.
If Uber wants to turn this into a JOB for drivers they can do so. Until that happens, drivers MUST look out for their own interest...
as *it is the DRIVERS who are paying the expenses and take all the risk*, not Uber.

(ah, Bison... you've missed me, haven't you?)


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

AJUber said:


> Same in Sac like Dallas....but Jesus 75 cents a mile is anyone working for Uber in Orlando. Doesn't make sense


.75 cents a mile is absurd! The Uber drivers in that market must have a couple of crayons missing out of their boxes. You lose money just turning your car on! #clueless


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Now im hearing in Orlando they cutting rates again to 75 cents to 60 cents. UBER says look at it as a investment. Try to out last the others . Good Work. Keep doing it .


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

MrsUberJax said:


> Just my honest opinion. Disagree if you wish. If you can't afford the costs- you shouldn't be driving. Jacksonville- where I drive is the largest city in the country- geographically speaking- 2nd only to anchorage- so don't tell me about length of pickups- you either do the job or you don't. Half measures, give us all a bad name. The fewer the drivers the more money you can make. X gets .75 a mile here, & XL gets $1.55. Uber on.


Driving Uber X in Orlando is losing money at .75 cents per mile. Driving in Dallas at $1.00 per mile $4.00 minimum is losing money. With Uber flooding the market with drivers your theory fewer drivers theory does not stand up. Uber developed its bad name all by its self.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

AJUber said:


> Now im hearing in Orlando they cutting rates again to 75 cents to 60 cents. UBER says look at it as a investment. Try to out last the others . Good Work. Keep doing it .


That's nuts! Uber is not making money at those rates. In most markets their margins are to thin.


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## 49matrix (Feb 3, 2015)

ubervictim said:


> I know a ton of drivers pick and choose which rides they take based on destination and other factors. I have lately been only accepting flat rate rides from the airport and cancelling ones that aren't flat rate. It's the only way to make money after the rate cuts. Well today I had a rider swear at my and tell me she was reporting me to uber for cancelling. Is this not allowed under uber's terms of service? Haven't I read all over this forum that it was up to the drivers discretion which rides they accept? If I can't do flat rate rides anymore then I can't afford to do this job anyway but I was still doing ok with flat rates. Has anyone gotten an official answer from uber as far as whether or not we are allowed to pick and choose which rides we take? Thanks


Such a bunch of BS!
- In order to make this possible this "ton of drivers" that you know which I assume includes yourself would have to firstly, accept the ride, at which point you have no idea where the rider wants to go; secondly contact the rider and, based on his statement of destination accept his ride or cancel the ride. Oh, and what are the "other factors"?
- Where are you driving? I don't have flat rates for airport rides or any other ride, it's all based on the $0.95/$0.85 and $0.20/minute established for my driving area. (Anyone else have flat rates, and would you accept a flat rate rate to go 1 or 75 miles?)
- Someone already pointed out that you can only refuse a riders destination if it's out of the service area but many Uber drivers will accept these rides.
- Uber gives you the choice of accepting the request or letting the 15 seconds go by and not accepting it. Having accepted a ride you fulfill that contract or cancel it and suffer the consequences of cancelling too many of them, which seems to be your problem.
- If you are doing this with every request you and your ton of drivers deserve deactivation.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TeleSki said:


> David Plouffe who was the man behind Obama's whole "Hope and Change" strategy is the SVP of Strategy and Planning for Uber.


A few months behind the news, I'm afraid.
Plouffe's job is now held by a top strategist from Google...
and Plouffe is now responsible for, what else: lobbying.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...gave-david-plouffes-job-to-a-top-google-exec/


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Yep you deserve to be deavtivated cherry picker, now go drive for lyft . Sorry sob


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Uber is not making money at those rates. In most markets their margins are to thin.


Yes... but Uber has tens of millions of dollars to support their investment (ie: bet) on the future.
Who is supporting us?


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## MrsUberJax (Sep 2, 2014)

Can i ask you , how many times has a uber driver called you and ask your destination does it happen alot more than i think??? And whwn it happens to you do you rate them low??[/QUOTE] It happens more and more recently. Of course I rate them low- because they are screening the calls - and its poor freaking service! 


Txchick said:


> Driving Uber X in Orlando is losing money at .75 cents per mile. Driving in Dallas at $1.00 per mile $4.00 minimum is losing money. With Uber flooding the market with drivers your theory fewer drivers theory does not stand up. Uber developed its bad name all by its self.


 I was only stating The obvious- that when there are fewer drivers on the road, we make more money. Uber's flooded the market here too with drivers.


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## Zinc (Jul 10, 2015)

As I understand contract law, you must be able to know ALL the elements of a contract. If a company is giving you only SOME of the elements, but not ALL of them before you accept it, it is not being ethical in its dealings with you. It should be within everyone's rights to review the contract in its entirety and then make an informed decision. This is why if you cancel right away, they can't hold it or shouldn't hold it against you. You are simply informing yourself and determining whether or not you want to go forward with the commitment. That's not being a slimeball, it's doing your due diligence. Nobody should be painted into a corner and be taken advantage of, unless you want to be, in which case... weird, but ok.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Nope your wrong , becuz he doesn't have to work. He can shut off the app and walk away no taken advantage of . He can always just walk away. By he chooses to cherry pick and put clients and other drivers in a bad situation.


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## Zinc (Jul 10, 2015)

AJUber said:


> Nope your wrong , becuz he doesn't have to work. He can shut off the app and walk away no taken advantage of . He can always just walk away. By he chooses to cherry pick and put clients and other drivers in a bad situation.


Then no one would ever enter into any agreement and nothing would get done in life, except by people who don't care to read and understand what they are getting into. We do it all the time by agreeing to all kinds of terms we never read and those companies know we don't. However, in order to have some kind of actual business arrangement, you need to be fully informed, at least that's the expectation of most people who enter into business agreements. Why do you think real estate agents exist? It's not just for them to make money, it's so people can have someone who is fiducially responsible for their financial wellbeing, as it relates to the transaction they are attempting to undertake. We don't have anyone doing that. In fact, companies like Uber don't really care about your financial wellbeing. So, it's up to you and me as individuals to care.

Simply saying 'turn it off', is not a total solution. It is one possible choice, but not always the best. If you want to conduct business, you can't just do that and it should not be called cherry picking to do your due diligence. In fact, that's ridiculous.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

No whats ridiculous is you or someone else trying to manipulate the system so i have to work harder and take all the bad calls becuz you dont want too. Becuz i dont care if you make money, go broke or quit. but you trying to make me work harder for less, i am going to make sure you get deactivated quick.


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## Zinc (Jul 10, 2015)

AJUber said:


> No whats ridiculous is you or someone else trying to manipulate the system so i have to work harder and take all the bad calls becuz you dont want too. Becuz i dont care if you make money, go broke or quit. but you trying to make me work harder for less, i am going to make sure you get deactivated quick.


You are way out of line. I never said I did whatever you claim people are doing. You also sound belligerent and possibly drunk right now.

I'm talking about basic business ethics and you're flying off the handle because you can't grasp the concepts. You should actually care about this stuff.

Also your bizarre threats are pointless.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

The Kid said:


> I've done the math. No way to make a profit at less than $1 per mile.
> 
> View attachment 4613





Zinc said:


> As I understand contract law, you must be able to know ALL the elements of a contract. If a company is giving you only SOME of the elements, but not ALL of them before you accept it, it is not being ethical in its dealings with you. It should be within everyone's rights to review the contract in its entirety and then make an informed decision. This is why if you cancel right away, they can't hold it or shouldn't hold it against you. You are simply informing yourself and determining whether or not you want to go forward with the commitment. That's not being a slimeball, it's doing your due diligence. Nobody should be painted into a corner and be taken advantage of, unless you want to be, in which case... weird, but ok.


This is exactly correct. Uber is the slimeball by willfully witholding a vital element of the contract from the service provider. It is within every driver's right to contact the rider in order to find out their destination. Absolutely, 100%. Why should I be required to drive 15-20 minutes away on the possibility That the rider simply wants to go to the corner store a mile away? I shouldn't! As the servicer provider, I need to have a reasonable amount of information in order to know whether the job I am being asked to perform is going to make good business sense for me.

We are not taxis, whereas the service provider pays a flat fee for his vehicle every day and then gives the vehicle back to its owner at the end of the day. The vehicle in this case is mine, and I have to be able to maximize its life and efficiency. A taxi driver doesn't care about his vehicle's efficiency or the long term life of the vehicle, for that matter.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Zinc said:


> As I understand contract law, you must be able to know ALL the elements of a contract. If a company is giving you only SOME of the elements, but not ALL of them before you accept it, it is not being ethical in its dealings with you. It should be within everyone's rights to review the contract in its entirety and then make an informed decision. This is why if you cancel right away, they can't hold it or shouldn't hold it against you.


Very interesting application of the principle - and quite valid as an argument (legally) as to why a TNC should never be permitted to deactivate a driver based soley on their 'acceptance rate'. Well done!


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Newsboy559, i like how you said that but if that was true, and the driver was just doing his part to find out destination and cherry pick the rides how do you explain Uber deactivating him and the driver is out of the 10% compliance zone.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

AJUber said:


> Newsboy559, i like how you said that but if that was true, and the driver was just doing his part to find out destination and cherry pick the rides how do you explain Uber deactivating him and the driver is out of the 10% compliance zone.


Are you suggesting that Uber gives one whit about regulations or contract law?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

AJUber said:


> No whats ridiculous is you or someone else trying to manipulate the system *so i have to *work harder and take all the bad calls becuz you dont want too. Becuz i dont care if you make money, go broke or quit. but you trying to make me work harder for less, i am going to make sure you get deactivated quick.


You don't HAVE to do anything.

That's the point. Unless we are employees, none of us HAVE to do anything.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Not saying that at all, we all know Uber does not care about you. But what I am saying is that Uber will deactivate you if you're out of that 10% zone now I'm also same that By you cherry picking you are putting me and the other drivers on harder calls and more work so don't cry when you get deactivated for being out of that 10 percent. Uber has never said you can't contact the client all they're saying is you better not be out of that 10% zone. The original poster Got deactivated for two reasons 1. low rating because he got complained on and 2. He was out of his 10 percent acceptance zone.


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

Uberhammer.... You are so right I don't have to do anything because I'm subcontract I don't have to work harder I don't have to take a call but if I want to work for uber I better be within a 10 percent acceptance zone and have my ratings up


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

AJUber said:


> Uberhammer.... You are so right I don't have to do anything because I'm subcontract I don't have to work harder I don't have to take a call but if I want to work for uber I better be within a 10 percent acceptance zone and have my ratings up


You NEVER work FOR Uber.
Uber works for YOU - according to the Uber Partner Agreement:
YOU PAY UBER for the service (leads and third party payer services) that Uber provides you, for a fee.

You are also not a SUBCONTRACTOR. A subcontractor is doing work for someone else.
Drivers are INDEPENDENT contractors... hired by the end-user (ie: the passenger).


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

AJUber said:


> Not saying that at all, we all know Uber does not care about you. But what I am saying is that Uber will deactivate you if you're out of that 10% zone now I'm also same that By you cherry picking you are putting me and the other drivers on harder calls and more work so don't cry when you get deactivated for being out of that 10 percent. Uber has never said you can't contact the client all they're saying is you better not be out of that 10% zone. The original poster Got deactivated for two reasons 1. low rating because he got complained on and 2. He was out of his 10 percent acceptance zone.


Being deactivated for acceptance rate is a major reason why Uber will lose in court over treating drivers like employees. If drivers are truly not employees and just independent contractors, then they can decline 99%+ requests and not be deactivated for it. As soon as Uber deactivates a driver for not accepting any amount of requests, Uber crosses the line of treating the driver as an employee.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Being deactivated for acceptance rate is a major reason why Uber will lose in court over treating drivers like employees. If drivers are truly not employees and just independent contractors, then they can decline 99%+ requests and not be deactivated for it. As soon as Uber deactivates a driver for not accepting any amount of requests, Uber crosses the line of treating the driver as an employee.


I am looking forward to seeing how the courts consider the issue of acceptance rates, because I *think* Uber can make the case they that have every right to enter into and maintain agreements only with drivers who accept and complete a certain number or percentage of the rider requests provided by the service. The right to independent conduct should be valid both ways. A company should have the right to determine that their 'partnership' with any individual independent contractor is not beneficial to them.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I am looking forward to seeing how the courts consider the issue of acceptance rates, because I *think* Uber can make the case they that have every right to enter into and maintain agreements only with drivers who accept and complete a certain number or percentage of the rider requests provided by the service. The right to independent conduct should be valid both ways. A company should have the right to determine that their 'partnership' with any individual independent contractor is not beneficial to them.


Uber has rights. The problem is their business decisions do not reflect their rights.

If they feel a better customer experience is created when requests are sent first to drivers who accept a high percentage of pings, then they have the right to setup their system to send the request first to a driver who has the highest acceptance rate in the area of the customer. Uber however feels a better customer experience is created when requests are sent first to the closest driver. This business decision does not give Uber the right to penalize the closest driver for choosing to not accept it. It's the right of the driver to not accept the request, unless the driver is an employee.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Uber has rights. The problem is their business decisions do not reflect their rights.
> 
> If they feel a better customer experience is created when requests are sent first to drivers who accept a high percentage of pings, then they have the right to setup their system to send the request first to a driver who has the highest acceptance rate in the area of the customer. This business decision does not give Uber the right to penalize the closest driver for choosing to not accept it. It's the right of the driver to not accept the request, unless the driver is an employee.


Indeed, that's' the argument that will be made.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> I think it gets sticky when Uber determines ALL the rules in the partnership. If there were only one or two things, I would agree with you.


Not so much.
Another principle in contract law is _severability_
whereby a breach or invalidation of one clause
does not in and of itself invalidate any other clause
or the agreement as a whole.

Not trying to preach or practice law here:
It's just that the issues here (while personal to so many of us) are just simply interesting
- fascinating, really - and present real challenges to legislators, courts, judges and juries.


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## Sherif Elkattawy (May 25, 2015)

Shine'ola said:


> easy there big guy in Tampa, you guys didn't get cut off at the knees like some areas ( 75 cents in Orlando )


The guy you have as an avatar is actually from Jersey City. Do you know him ?


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

yeah I know Beat


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## Sherif Elkattawy (May 25, 2015)

Shine'ola said:


> yeah I know Beat


Thats pretty cool. Are you from up JC?


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You NEVER work FOR Uber.
> Uber works for YOU - according to the Uber Partner Agreement:
> YOU PAY UBER for the service (leads and third party payer services) that Uber provides you, for a fee.
> 
> ...


This is exactly right again, and why so many people simply do not understand their rights to accept, not accept or cancel a call.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

AJUber said:


> Newsboy559, i like how you said that but if that was true, and the driver was just doing his part to find out destination and cherry pick the rides how do you explain Uber deactivating him and the driver is out of the 10% compliance zone.


As long as Uber does not specifically state that they are deactivating the driver for cancelling requests, they know that they are within the law because the contract specifically says drivers can be deactivated for any reason with proper notice.

Now, I also like this portion of the contract as it relates to drivers negotiating a different rate than the Uber service fee schedule:

"Similarly, you and the company shall always have the right to negotiate a service fee that is different from the pre-arranged fee. The purpose of the pre-arranged service fee is only to act as the default fee in the event that neither party negotiates a different amount."

I believe this paragraph justifies a driver calling a rider in order to find out his destination and possibly negotiate a HIGHER rate than the regular Uber fee. Forget surge. The contract specifically says drivers are free to negotiate the final rate that's paid for every ride they choose to give!


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

newsboy559 said:


> As long as Uber does not specifically state that they are deactivating the driver for cancelling requests, they know that they are within the law because the contract specifically says drivers can be deactivated for any reason with proper notice.
> 
> Now, I also like this portion of the contract as it relates to drivers negotiating a different rate than the Uber service fee schedule:
> 
> ...


All contracts have CYA, Cover Your Ankles, clauses. I like what you're saying but in the real world here's my bet on that play:
1. Driver gets ping and accepts.
2. Driver calls rider to negotiate price. 
3. IF driver & rider ever agreed to new negotiated price other than on app, Rider most likely would inform Uber.
4. Uber deactivates driver without explanation. 
More than likely that clause allowing negotiating is CYA for antitrust laws.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> All contracts have CYA, Cover Your Ankles, clauses. I like what you're saying but in the real world here's my bet on that play:
> 1. Driver gets ping and accepts.
> 2. Driver calls rider to negotiate price.
> 3. IF driver & rider ever agreed to new negotiated price other than on app, Rider most likely would inform Uber.
> ...


I totally agree with you. However, if a driver who practiced selective cancellations is deactivated with no reason given, I think he'd have a strong case in court if he had a good rating and had never had any problems in the past. Whether it's CYA or not, it's legally binding because it's expressly written in the contract.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

newsboy559 said:


> As long as Uber does not specifically state that they are deactivating the driver for cancelling requests, they know that they are within the law because the contract specifically says drivers can be deactivated for any reason with proper notice.


Except that courts generally look very dimly on self-serving all encompassing contract clauses like that and invalidate and ignore them. Just because the party that wrote the contract puts something in the contract, does not mean it is valid or enforceable. If the clause itself violates existing law or regulation, it is automatically invalidated - and if it is patently unfair, a court can ignore it - and if a clause is ambiguous, the court can find in favor of the party that did not write the contract - particularly when the two parties are not equal (ie: a company of lawyers vs common slobs, like us).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> More than likely that clause allowing negotiating is CYA for antitrust laws.


Nope - not for anti-trust.
It's there because it is the only way Uber can claim that drivers are independent contractors, not employees, (since, presumably, the driver has control over the fare).

Courts are already ignoring this nonsense because Uber provides no MEANS for the driver or rider to implement a negotiated fare.

By requiring drivers to use the partner-app for an Uber ride (exclusively) - and providing no means in the partner-app OR the rider-app for the parties to implement an agreed upon fare, *Uber demonstrates EXCLUSIVE control over pricing and fares*. And that is going to be one of the biggest challenges Uber faces in federal court as it attempts to defend against the civil class action law suits which challenge the independent contractor claim Uber makes.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

newsboy559 said:


> Now, I also like this portion of the contract as it relates to drivers negotiating a different rate than the Uber service fee schedule


Yes - exactly. Most drivers completely miss this or ignore it... and it may very well be the clause that becomes the pivoting point in the Federal civil class action lawsuit in CA.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Nope - not for anti-trust. It's the because it is the only way Uber can claim that drivers are independent contractors, not employees, (since, presumably, the driver has control over the fare).
> 
> Courts are already ignoring this nonsense because Uber provides no MEANS for the driver to implement a negotiated fare.
> 
> By requiring drivers to use the partner-app for an Uber ride (exclusively) - and providing no means in the partner-app OR the rider-app for the parties to implement an agreed upon fare, *Uber demonstrates EXCLUSIVE control over pricing and fares*. And that is going to be one of the biggest challenges Uber faces in federal court as it attempts to defend against the civil class action law suits which challenge the independent contractor claim Uber makes.


This is correct. For the driver/Uber contract to have any authority over the fare the rider is charged, the rider would have to be a party in the contract too. Since the rider is not a party on the driver/Uber contract, and since the driver is not an employee of Uber, Uber's lawyers know that the fare has to be negotiable between the driver and rider.

However, since Uber ignores legislated law in how it operates, it also ignores contract law, in contracts its lawyers wrote, in how it operates. So just because drivers have the right to negotiate fares does not mean Uber allows it operationally.

In sports, this is called "no flag, no foul". Uber will continue playing like this until the rules are enforced on them... even the rules they wrote.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> This is correct.


Of course it's correct. Would I lie to *you*?


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## 49matrix (Feb 3, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Don't judge everyone else based on YOUR particular circumstance and experience. In MANY cities and areas, the geography is very large and there are few drivers available. That means driver's are often being pinged to drive 15 minutes at their own expense in order to receive $2.40 - before expenses - in order to provide a min fare ride. If UberX fares weren't so low, it wouldn't be nearly the same equation, but *as it stands now, a driver may have no choice but to screen rides or run the very high risk of losing money*.


....and risk deactivation! Yes, I get 10/15 minute drives for a pick up and some are minimum fare and others are $15/20 rides, or more. If you and just a few drivers are being asked to cover a large geographical area you have the choice of 1: accepting all requests or 2: find some alternative employment. Cherry picking is not an option in this business, you end up pissing off riders and fellow drivers.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

49matrix said:


> ... you have the choice of 1: accepting all requests or 2: find some alternative employment. Cherry picking is not an option in this business...


Another person who believes they have the right to tell someone else how to work as an independent contractor.

*News Flash:*
_Driving Uber is NOT employment
(at least not as an employee of Uber - you may be an employee of your own company - or someone elses)._
Don't believe me? Ask Uber. Directly.
Send an email to Uber and ask:
_"As an approved and working driver partner, am I an EMPLOYEE of Uber?"_
Let me know what response you get.

Until it is employment, every independent contractor has the right, explicitly provided for in their partner agreement with Uber, to accept, reject or cancel any ride request - for any reason they choose.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

49matrix said:


> ....and risk deactivation!


I enjoy the thrill of the risk.
What's it to ya?


> Yes, I get 10/15 minute drives for a pick up and some are minimum fare and others are $15


What's your point? It's your choice to accept all rides blindly. Frankly, I do too. And that's my choice. Someone else wants to work THEIR business differently than I work mine, it's fine with me. Every ride they reject is another ping for me. <shrug>



> ... you end up pissing off riders ...


Excuse me, where in my Uber Partner agreement does it say that I,
or you or any other driver is responsible for not 'pissing off' riders?

*Who is responsible for seeing to it that riders don't piss me off?!*



> ... [and pissing off ] fellow drivers.


And if you think I am going to take any responsibility for YOUR not being pissed off, then you're out of your mind.
I'm not your mother
- and I'm not your partner.
*I am your competition for that Uber rider!*


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## rcinatl (Apr 5, 2015)

It is clear that some people are not reading that contract clause as carefully as they need to. According to the above, it says:
"Similarly, you and the company shall always have the right to negotiate a service fee that is different from the pre-arranged fee. The purpose of the pre-arranged service fee is only to act as the default fee in the event that neither party negotiates a different amount."
So "you and the company shall always have the right to negotiate", not "you and the passenger". You would have to do your fee negotiation with Uber.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

rcinatl said:


> It is clear that some people are not reading that contract clause as carefully as they need to.


Or maybe you're reading the incomplete statement or a different agreement than I have with Uber (dated Nov 14, 2014) which states, in full:

4. Financial Terms
4.1
In addition, the parties acknowledge and agree that as between you and Company, the fare is a recommended amount, and the primary purpose of the pre-‐arranged fare is to act as the default amount in the event you do not negotiate a different amount.

You shall always have the right to: (i) Charge a fare that is less than the pre-‐arranged fare; or (ii) negotiate, at your request, a fare That is lower than the pre-‐arranged Fare (each of (i) and (ii) herein, a "Negotiated Fare").​
Now, several things to understand here:

"as between you and Company" refers to the recommended fares that the Company publishes, to you. Earlier in the agreement, Uber has already established the direct relationship between the rider and the driver.

It then says that those are just default fares and goes on to explicitly protect your right to negotiate a fare. It then goes into UberEze and says that you have the right to negotiate a 'LOWER' fare... IMPLYING you can't negotiate a higher fare. But that's not accurate, and no court in the US would ever allow for such an implication.

In fact, it would be INFERRED from the stated right to negotiate the fare, and the stated right to negotiate a "lower" fare, that the true meaning of the contract is to allow for the negotiation of the fare, (up down or without change to the default fare), between the rider and the driver.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

UberRidiculous said:


> All contracts have CYA, Cover Your Ankles, clauses. I like what you're saying but in the real world here's my bet on that play:
> 1. Driver gets ping and accepts.
> 2. Driver calls rider to negotiate price.
> 3. IF driver & rider ever agreed to new negotiated price other than on app, Rider most likely would inform Uber.
> ...


And by the way, it's Grab Your Ankles and Cover Your Ass. ;-)


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Or maybe you're reading the incomplete statement or a different agreement than I have with Uber (dated Nov 14, 2014) which states, in full:
> 
> 4. Financial Terms
> 4.1
> ...


You definitely have a different contract than I do. Interesting.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

newsboy559 said:


> You definitely have a different contract than I do. Interesting.


But it doesn't matter, because regardless what is in your contract (written by Uber/Raiser), the cannot limit your ability to negotiate a fare with YOUR passenger while at the same time claiming that you are an independent contractor providing rides to passengers, and that they are "just a technology company" connecting the two of you. It's really very important for drivers to know that just because Uber writes something in their partner agreement, does not mean it is enforceable.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> But it doesn't matter, because regardless what is in your contract (written by Uber/Raiser), the cannot limit your ability to negotiate a fare with YOUR passenger while at the same time claiming that you are an independent contractor providing rides to passengers, and that they are "just a technology company" connecting the two of you. It's really very important for drivers to know that just because Uber writes something in their partner agreement, does not mean it is enforceable.


Oh, I 100% agree with you. I am the one who brought it up as a reason that every driver does, in fact, have the right to make contact with the customer as part of the decision making process as to whether or not he accepts or cancels the fare.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

I guess the issue is not if it's against Uber. But if it's against you municipal by laws. They my state you can't ask for compensation from a passenger without a license.

So regardless, it may be a no win scenario for you.


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## UberDan83 (Apr 28, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> Over 900 rides and I have never asked the destination. If there is anyone asking and cherry picking, they deserve being deactivated. That's my humble opinion.


Totally agreed. I had a guy at SFO late night that was cherry picking rides which I thought was totally ****ed up, but he was nice and he would tell the rider to cancel on their end and re-request, which puts the driver back at the top of the queue, totally f'd up


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## Richard T (Jul 16, 2015)

UL Driver SF said:


> Then you didn't read it closely....look...I can't help it if you can't understand context or even actually understand what you read. So my suggestion is go back and see if you can find where I said I did this sort of thing on a regular basis if at all. You're gonna look pretty stupid once you can't post up the evidence.
> 
> My comment was simple...it's silly for Uber to backtrack on their own claim that there is no obligation to provide rides.
> Uber said this in COURT. It is now testimony entered as an argument for their case. To turn around and punish drivers for following their ARGUMENT IN COURT is stupid at best.


You don't have an obligation to provide rides.
Likewise, Uber doesn't have an obligation to keep you as a driver.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Richard T said:


> You don't have an obligation to provide rides.
> Likewise, Uber doesn't have an obligation to keep you as a driver.


Well, not exactly. Uber does have responsibilities... and the more they behave towards drivers as an employer, the more responsibilities they have - and the more rights drivers have. Right now they are speaking out of both sides of their corporate and legal mouth... the courts *may* force that to change.


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## 49matrix (Feb 3, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I enjoy the thrill of the risk.
> What's it to ya?
> 
> What's your point? It's your choice to accept all rides blindly. Frankly, I do too. And that's my choice. Someone else wants to work THEIR business differently than I work mine, it's fine with me. Every ride they reject is another ping for me. <shrug>
> ...


Really admire your stellar attitude, bet it gets you places we mere mortals have never seen. Just sayin'.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

49matrix said:


> Really admire your stellar attitude, bet it gets you places we mere mortals have never seen. Just sayin'.


Bully for you. I have no desire to be admired. Or judged. Just sayin'.


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