# If people are losing money with uber why do they keep driving for uber?



## Champ (Jul 28, 2015)

I keep seeing people on post saying they are losing money by working for uber. But they are still driving for uber. If I see myself not making any type of profit and still driving. I just really want to know are people really losing money or are they just trying to scare new drivers off?


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## poopy (Jun 28, 2015)

Dang... you've cracked the code!
Ignore the whining naysayers.
Get out there NOW and make that life-changing money!
Best,
poopy


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

While there may be some who are "losing money every day", most here do make some, just not as much as they used to (before several introductions of "new and exciting fares") or not as much as the advertisements led them to believe that they would earn. The complaints are mostly from those who are earning less money than a Second Assistant Burger Flipper at Icky-D's would earn.

When UberX first came here, the rates were pretty good for the drivers. Before I signed on, Uber put at least two "new and exciting fare [structures]" into effect. Since I signed on, there have been three "new and exciting fare [structures]" put into place. Other markets have suffered worse. The problem is that most Uber drivers, especially in large cities with high costs of living, are working for rates that date from the early 1970s to late 1980s. Too bad that their cars break down at 2015 costs, their insurance premiums are at 2015 levels and gasolene is at 2015 prices.

There is money in the rideshare, but Uber needs to understand that it needs to provide its drivers with a reasonable return. The Rocket Scientists at Uber will not understand that one of the reasons that they can not keep drivers is that the "new and exciting" rates do not render to the driver a reasonable return on his investments. Most of the drivers hang on in hopes that it will change.

My response to it has been to run a couple of UberX trips here and there so that I can stay in the game. I drive the taxi far more than I do UberX. I am hoping that someone will get rid of the Rocket Scientists at Uber and bring in someone who might actually know something about ground transportation for-hire. According to Uber insiders, Uber is never going to listen to the drivers when they complain about the rates, but those particular Rocket Scientists do not understand that you never say "never" in a capitalist market. The market is the Ultimate Dictator; that despite the attempts of busybody, micromanaging Regulators and Politicians as well as those of Market Players with inflated egos to make it otherwise.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The problem is that most Uber drivers, especially in large sities with high costs of living, are working for rates that date from the early 1970s to late 1980s. Too bad that their cars break down at 2015 costs, their insurance premiums are at 2015 levels and gasolene is at 2015 prices.


I wish the rates were higher. But any independent contractor needs to know that, to survive, he must keep expenses very low. That means driving reliable cars that have low costs to own and operate. If anything, cars are more reliable now than ever before. But if they are driving newer cars, they need to expect insurance to be high to cover the cost.



Another Uber Driver said:


> There is money in the rideshare, but Uber needs to understand that it needs to provide its drivers with a reasonable return. The Rocket Scientists at Uber will not understand that one of the reasons that they can not keep drivers is that the "new and exciting" rates do not render to the driver a reasonable return on his investments. Most of the drivers hang on in hopes that it will change.


Why would anybody expect rates to increase? All Uber needs is a large number of drivers. Only when the net number decreases does Uber have any incentive to raise rates.



Another Uber Driver said:


> According to Uber insiders, Uber is never going to listen to the drivers when they complain about the rates, but those particular Rocket Scientists do not understand that you never say "never" in a capitalist market. The market is the Ultimate Dictator; that despite the attempts of busybody, micromanaging Regulators and Politicians as well as those of Market Players with inflated egos to make it otherwise.


I agree that the free market should rule here. But as long as Uber is able to be profitable, and every single driver is doing this by his/her own will, there is no incentive to change the current model. No matter how much we want a rate increase.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 11, 2015)

yeah, i am pretty sure i am losing money. Ive been driving for 7 months and im still trying to figure it out. Idk if I should go back to school, or try to get a job as a server and try to move up to bartender, or get back into sales. I cant decide and uber is what im doing in the mean time.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

renbutler said:


> I wish the rates were higher. But any independent contractor needs to know that, to survive, he must keep expenses very low. That means driving reliable cars that have low costs to own and operate. If anything, cars are more reliable now than ever before. But if they are driving newer cars, they need to expect insurance to be high to cover the cost.


I do not disagree on keeping down costs. In fact, even if the rates were adequate, it would still be a smart move to keep down costs. Keep in mind that if you drive full time, you lose _twice_ when your vehicle is at the mechanic. We part time drivers do have the option, as a rule, of sending the vehicle to the mechanic when we are at the regular job. Still, if it is a new vehicle that is still under warranty, we must take it to the dealer, who usually keeps it for a few days. Fortunately for me, I have an alternative, as when one is at the dealer, I can still drive the other. Most do not have that luxury.



renbutler said:


> Why would anybody expect rates to increase? All Uber needs is a large number of drivers. Only when the net number decreases does Uber have any incentive to raise rates.


A careful reading of the quoted segment will reveal that a drop-off in the number of active drivers is precisely what will occur, eventually, due, mostly to the lack of a decent return to the driver. As long as Uber can keep tapping a pool, it not only will it keep rates ridiculously low, marry, Sirrah, it will slash them further. Atlanta is ample demonstration of the last. Despite what Uber believes (and more than a few others, such as the Uber Shills), there are only _so many_ drivers in the pool.



renbutler said:


> I agree that the free market should rule here. But as long as Uber is able to be profitable, and every single driver is doing this by his/her own will, there is no incentive to change the current model. No matter how much we want a rate increase.


See the remark about the pool of drivers' being finite, despite what Uber and its shills would have anyone believe. _That_ is _precisely_ the market force that will drive up the rates. Keep in mind that despite the volume of complaining posts here, the drivers here represent only a thin slice of the Uber Driver Population. No one hears from the majority of have discontinued driving. There are enough factors out there to support the premise that Uber has a retention problem. It attempts to address it by the "revolving door method". The problem with that is that there are only so many available to go through those doors. What most of us here are suggesting is that Uber's "solution" is going to break down, at some point, but if it really cared about addressing it before the breakdown occurred, it would take a different course than the one that it insists on staying.


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## renworb (Jul 21, 2015)

There is another issue at play here too:
By far the biggest complaint from pax regarding drivers is their lack of knowledge of their cities and best routes. That knowledge can only come from experience. That is a direct result of Uber's "revolving door " policies. As good/experienced drivers move on and are constantly being replaced by newbies, this will continue and only get worse. Will this affect Ubers bottom line enough to rethink this? Only time will tell. Common sense and logic will tell you yes, eventually; but we all know Uber management doesn't operate logically!


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

we live in a nation of borrowers. people take loans on cars and then borrow equity from their car that is being borrowed from a bank. borrow borrow borrow. uber is exploiting that. that is why they have drivers. if you had a brain you'd know that.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

itsablackmarket said:


> we live in a nation of borrowers. people take loans on cars and then borrow equity from their car that is being borrowed from a bank. borrow borrow borrow. uber is exploiting that. that is why they have drivers. if you had a brain you'd know that.


Exactly. Its nothing more than a transfer of resources in many markets. You have a car, borrow from your car's value and pay your bills. Simple equation. No different than transferring money from savings to checking in order to pay bills.


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## just drive (Oct 29, 2014)

luckily the will be making more money now with the new rates. See you just have to wait. Uber always does the right thing.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I give up.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> I give up.


I agree. Hard to answer some responses.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Let's talk about ratings. ..my rating dropped today. ..what should I do?


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## just drive (Oct 29, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Let's talk about ratings. ..my rating dropped today. ..what should I do?


Get a newer car financed with uber. It guarantees the ratings will go up


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

**** yeah..I'm in. I'd be stupid not to lease a car from Uber.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Apply Clorox bleach to the head, being careful not to saturate the eyes as this would interfere with your ability to drive. This will assist the brainwashing process


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I need to drive more. ...my rating dropped today.


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## dandy driver (Jan 28, 2015)

Champ said:


> I keep seeing people on post saying they are losing money by working for uber. But they are still driving for uber. If I see myself not making any type of profit and still driving. I just really want to know are people really losing money or are they just trying to scare new drivers off?


You will have profit if you keep records/receipts for all expenses when u r deactivated by Uber. There are now 3 federal national class action lawsuits against Uber by drivers ! Get your money ASAP.
Contact; Shannon Liss-Riordan
[email protected]


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## just drive (Oct 29, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> I need to drive more. ...my rating dropped today.


Offer better candy and better water


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## dandy driver (Jan 28, 2015)

dandy driver said:


> You will have profit if you keep records/receipts for all expenses when u r deactivated by Uber. There are now 3 federal national class action lawsuits against Uber by drivers ! Get your money ASAP.
> Contact; Shannon Liss-Riordan
> [email protected]


I am a driver for over 40+ yrs
God bless America


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## dandy driver (Jan 28, 2015)

just drive said:


> Offer better candy and better water


And free round trips to Pluto.


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## dandy driver (Jan 28, 2015)

just drive said:


> Get a newer car financed with uber. It guarantees the ratings will go up


Call for Uber ride, ask driver to come to back door to get luggage steal the car and rob next customer
What do u think Uber is doing to us?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Bob Smith said:


> yeah, i am pretty sure i am losing money. Ive been driving for 7 months and im still trying to figure it out. Idk if I should go back to school, or try to get a job as a server and try to move up to bartender, or get back into sales. I cant decide and uber is what im doing in the mean time.


Decide quickly, forget Uber.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Champ said:


> I keep seeing people on post saying they are losing money by working for uber. But they are still driving for uber. If I see myself not making any type of profit and still driving. I just really want to know are people really losing money or are they just trying to scare new drivers off?


Surge? Desperation? Ignorance? Stupidity? Fun? Hobby? Inspiration for their blog/YouTube/book? To meet chicks/dudes? To sell drugs?

Numbers don't lie. Do the math.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Numbers don't lie. Do the math.


The math is different for every person. And I can see why many people are losing money, as they drive expensive cars with payments, with high insurance, in areas with high gas prices, driving around looking for fares, etc.

There is money to be made (not huge amounts, mind you) by keeping expenses low and driving smart.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

renbutler said:


> There is money to be made (not huge amounts, mind you) by keeping expenses low and driving smart.


How about tips? Do you accept them or reject them since they are unnecessary. Just curious how that fits into your equation.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

jaxbeachrides said:


> How about tips? Do you accept them or reject them since they are unnecessary. Just curious how that fits into your equation.


That's a weird question. But I'll assume it's serious for a second and not hostile.

I'm not sure who called them "unnecessary." I doubt anybody has characterized them thusly. But of course I accept them (well, the one that I've ever been offered). Why wouldn't I?

I don't count on them though. But I can still make the math work out by keeping expenses as low as possible.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

renbutler said:


> That's a weird question. But I'll assume it's serious for a second and not hostile.
> 
> I'm not sure who called them "unnecessary." I doubt anybody has characterized them thusly. But of course I accept them (well, the one that I've ever been offered). Why wouldn't I?
> 
> I don't count on them though. But I can still make the math work out by keeping expenses as low as possible.


Well, uber said they're unnecessary. And since you don't like particularly like tipping either, its like 6 of one and a half dozen of the other so to speak, right?

I guess you live near farm country, where real estate is not outrageously expensive and gratuity is not a major portion of service industry wages. It is within cities, however.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Well, uber said they're unnecessary. And since you don't like particularly like tipping either, its like 6 of one and a half dozen of the other so to speak, right?


Well, no, not really.

But I knew not to count on tips before getting into the business. That's right: I learned as much as I could before I started (although I'm still learning to this day).

So I don't even count tips in my math. It wouldn't make sense.

If more people started tipping, I'd probably start incorporating tips.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

If Uber charged a reasonable rate, they would be able to partner with experienced professionals who know their area and know how to treat customers.

Just kidding, I'd never drive for those assholes. LOL


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nomad said:


> The hospitality industry has been employing (pun intended) the "revolving door" technique for a long time and as much as I hate it and always said it will eventually ruin whichever company I was complaining about, I've been completely wrong.
> 
> Thousands of new drivers hit the road every day; furthermore, thousands of experienced drivers working in other industries are looking to new alternatives for income. In steps a marketing team dedicated to selling Uber as the easy answer to additional income.
> 
> a new generation of "I'll-do-it-cheaper's" step in to grab a small hold of market share and the cycle starts again.


The difference here is that the replacement capacity of the "hospitality" business far exceeds that of the transportation business. Further, there are positions in the hospitality business that do not require too many skills, while those in the transportation business do require some. The positions that require the fewest skills are those that show the highest rates of turnover.

While thousands of new drivers do hit the road every day, thousands also cease to accept the trips. They drink the Kool-Aid, to be sure, but they find out quickly that this _ain't _going to give them what they expect. It is allright if you have a job already and are looking for money to pay the bar bills or even pay for Christmas, but other than that, you do not earn much. People will stick it out, but many, especially once they realise the per-hour pay, will hang it up.

To be sure, someone will figure out a way to do it more cheaply, the question will be can he sell it to the customers and the providers? Uber has been doing that, but at some point, you run out of eligible suckers.



just drive said:


> Offer better candy and better water


Offer San Pellegrino and Starburst instead of the store brand water and some cheap-0 mints. Funny, I bought a bag of Starburst and some store brand water, but have never had a passenger take either. The bottles are right there and the bag of Starburst is open in the middle console.


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

Champ said:


> I keep seeing people on post saying they are losing money by working for uber. But they are still driving for uber. If I see myself not making any type of profit and still driving. I just really want to know are people really losing money or are they just trying to scare new drivers off?


Because the naysaysers have no real business IQ and don't know how to minimize costs and maximize revenue. It's simple, almost common sense. <--- College Business Major...


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Jason2k15 said:


> Because the naysaysers have no real business IQ and don't know how to minimize costs and maximize revenue. It's simple, almost common sense. <--- College Business Major...


Lmfao! So how much does it cost you to operate your vehicle?


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Lmfao! So how much does it cost you to operate your vehicle?


So far, (in 5 days (1st week)) gas about $120; Need an oil change, add $15. Prolly $0.15 a mile for wear and tear at 286 miles ($100) and I brought in $400 so $400 - $135 = $265 (profit). My aim is to get a hybrid or electric car one day in the near future (electric car once the electric car battery becomes more efficient w/ at least 500 per battery but a hybrid sooner). Maybe I forgot something (in the expense category), but the aim is to get a better efficient car. Gotta have a plan if you plan to stay in business profitably. Also, some expenses you will have whether you are driving for Uber or not so I didn't really count those.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Jason2k15 said:


> So far, (in 5 days (1st week)) gas about $120; Need an oil change, add $15. Prolly $0.15 a mile for wear and tear at 900 miles ($135) and I brought in $400 so $400 - $235 = $145 (profit). My aim is to get a hybrid or electric car one day in the near future (electric car once the electric car battery becomes more efficient w/ at least 500 per battery but a hybrid sooner). Maybe I forgot something (in the expense category), but the aim is to get a better efficient car. Gotta have a plan if you plan to stay in business profitably. Also, some expenses you will have whether you are driving for Uber or not so I didn't really count those.


You made $145 in 5 days of working?! $29/day. How many hours did you work?


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> You made $145 in 5 days of working?! $29/day. How many hours did you work?


Actually, I had to recalculate because I just saw that I only drove 286 miles on the Uber app so it's more $265 profit in 5 days. So, $53 a day. I drove for 551 minutes so I brought in an average of 1 dollar per minute which is $60 an hour revenue based on these numbers but you can always factor in other numbers to make that number not look so great.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Jason2k15 said:


> Actually, I had to recalculate because I just saw that I only drove 286 miles on the Uber app so it's more $265 profit in 5 days. So, $53 a day. I drove for 551 minutes so I brought in an average of 1 dollar per minute which is $60 an hour revenue based on these numbers but you can always factor in other numbers to make that number not look so great.


Right, but you also need to calculate your dead miles. And the time you're spending online, not just the time you spend driving.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Right, but you also need to calculate your dead miles. And the time you're spending online, not just the time you spend driving.


Not necessarily the online time. It depends on what one is doing during that time.

For example, I do stuff around the house when I first go online waiting for my first ping. I don't consider that working time, and I don't count it in any calculations.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

renbutler said:


> Not necessarily the online time. It depends on what one is doing during that time.
> 
> For example, I do stuff around the house when I first go online waiting for my first ping. I don't consider that working time, and I don't count it in any calculations.


During the time that I'm online, I can't go grocery shopping, I can't work out, take a shower, walk the dogs, cook dinner, have some drinks, etc. You've got to be dressed and ready to jump in the car when the ping comes. So I do count the time that I'm logged in.


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> During the time that I'm online, I can't go grocery shopping, I can't work out, take a shower, walk the dogs, cook dinner, have some drinks, etc. You've got to be dressed and ready to jump in the car when the ping comes. So I do count the time that I'm logged in.


It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer to do the math that gets me the best numbers to justify my craziness for even trying Uber in the first place.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> During the time that I'm online, I can't go grocery shopping, I can't work out, take a shower, walk the dogs, cook dinner, have some drinks, etc. You've got to be dressed and ready to jump in the car when the ping comes. So I do count the time that I'm logged in.


But if you have things to do that would prevent you from being online, why would you be online? I just go offline when I need to shower, cook, etc. And then I go back online when I'm ready to roll, and I do things that can easily be dropped if needed.


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## Champ (Jul 28, 2015)

I gues


JaxBeachDriver said:


> During the time that I'm online, I can't go grocery shopping, I can't work out, take a shower, walk the dogs, cook dinner, have some drinks, etc. You've got to be dressed and ready to jump in the car when the ping comes. So I do count the time that I'm logged in.


 I guess it depends on how busy your market is. In ATL it's back to back pings. Your right you can't really do much when your online.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

renbutler said:


> Not necessarily the online time. It depends on what one is doing during that time.
> 
> For example, I do stuff around the house when I first go online waiting for my first ping. I don't consider that working time, and I don't count it in any calculations.


Jax Beach ... We could all learn so much from this guy. He has gone out of his way to correct your posts. He's right, you're wrong.
We should all be learning from a guy who began driving less than two weeks ago.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Ignore sharky. He likes to take out his life failures on the internet.

I think your post was reasonable, Jax. I was just having a civil conversation about how I do it. You're free to disagree with me and calculate online time as you see fit. Because that's how well adjusted people act.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

renbutler said:


> Ignore sharky. He likes to take out his life failures on the internet.
> 
> I think your post was reasonable, Jax. I was just having a civil conversation about how I do it. You're free to disagree with me and calculate online time as you see fit. Because that's how well adjusted people act.


Tell everyone how much money you have in the bank again, like you did on one of your previous posts. That'll get them to take you serious.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> During the time that I'm online, I can't go grocery shopping, I can't work out, take a shower, walk the dogs, cook dinner, have some drinks, etc. You've got to be dressed and ready to jump in the car when the ping comes. So I do count the time that I'm logged in.


Yeah me too, but you also have to consider the law of the averages. Some hours pay nothing, some pay tremendous. Fortunately enough, the business we work in is now technologically savvy enough for us to work in the house while we wait for business. Doing dishes, laundry, making food and cleaning, etc. Didn't ever used to be that way.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Jason2k15 said:


> It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer to do the math that gets me the best numbers to justify my craziness for even trying Uber in the first place.


As do most people.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Yeah me too, but you also have to consider the law of the averages. Some hours pay nothing, some pay tremendous. Fortunately enough, the business we work in is now technologically savvy enough for us to work in the house while we wait for business. Doing dishes, laundry, making food and cleaning, etc. Didn't ever used to be that way.


Making food? Half way through dinner, the dish is in the oven and you get an airport run... Doesn't work that well.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Tell everyone how much money you have in the bank again, like you did on one of your previous posts. That'll get them to take you serious.


It's very cute that you're insinuating that I posted a dollar amount. I just said that I had a proper emergency fund, which means you have absolutely no idea how much money I have.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

renbutler said:


> But if you have things to do that would prevent you from being online, why would you be online? I just go offline when I need to shower, cook, etc. And then I go back online when I'm ready to roll, and I do things that can easily be dropped if needed.


That's my point. When you're online, you can't just do anything you want. You've got to be ready to go, so that time is not entirely yours. So it should count for something.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Well I know. Not necessarily a "meal", but you can do all kinds of things that prevent bad food habits. Prep work, chop veggies and such. It all adds up right?


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> That's my point. When you're online, you can't just do anything you want. You've got to be ready to go, so that time is not entirely yours. So it should count for something.


I understand what you mean, but I just get the stuff done that I want to do before going online. I also understand that doesn't work for everybody.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Well I know. Not necessarily a "meal", but you can do all kinds of things that prevent bad food habits. Prep work, chop veggies and such. It all adds up right?


I don't get you. You've said you're not an uber driver, and that's fine. You are welcome here like everyone else. But you seem to come around posting counter points to everything. You're going to debate me on meal prep! Hilarious. What's your game?


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

renbutler said:


> It's very cute that you're insinuating that I posted a dollar amount. I just said that I had a proper emergency fund, which means you have absolutely no idea how much money I have.


Bragging to people on this board about your money, when many are clearly just trying to get by, is a pathetic, little man syndrome. Get over yourself.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

renbutler said:


> I understand what you mean, but I just get the stuff done that I want to do before going online. I also understand that doesn't work for everybody.


Right! That's what I'm saying! The time that you are online counts as time that is not yours to do whatever you like.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I don't get you. You've said you're not an uber driver, and that's fine. You are welcome here like everyone else. But you seem to come around posting counter points to everything. You're going to debate me on meal prep! Hilarious. What's your game?


Oh. I thought I was pointing out the positives of the business. My bad.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Oh. I thought I was pointing out the positives of the business. My bad.


Not sure why you would. If there were so many positives to driving with uber, you'd be doing it. Or maybe you're planning on it.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

I didn't say I drove for uber. Maybe I never will. However its all a similar business from my understanding at least.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Right! That's what I'm saying! The time that you are online counts as time that is not yours to do whatever you like.


I'm saying that I already did the things I like or need to do and I'm ready to do something different when I go online.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Bragging to people on this board about your money, when many are clearly just trying to get by, is a pathetic, little man syndrome. Get over yourself.


Thanks for the life tip. I'll take that into consideration.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

renbutler said:


> I'm saying that I already did the things I like or need to do and I'm ready to do something different.


Oh. My. God. The point was that you should be counting the time you are online as working time. You first argued that you don't count all that time because you do things around the house. We have now agreed that you can't do anything and everything while you're online because you have to be ready to go at a moment's notice. What exactly is your point?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

renbutler said:


> The math is different for every person. And I can see why many people are losing money, as they drive expensive cars with payments, with high insurance, in areas with high gas prices, driving around looking for fares, etc.
> 
> There is money to be made (not huge amounts, mind you) by keeping expenses low and driving smart.


You are missing the most important factor which is the rates in your area and the available business (which is in large part a factor of how many drivers there are there).


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## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Exactly. Its nothing more than a transfer of resources in many markets. You have a car, borrow from your car's value and pay your bills. Simple equation. No different than transferring money from savings to checking in order to pay bills.


That is until the savings account runs dry, then what, most people don't see the long term effects, reason most of those uber drivers are in the shit house to begin with, do to constant bad financial management.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You are missing the most important factor which is the rates in your area and the available business (which is in large part a factor of how many drivers there are there).


I guarantee that I haven't missed that point.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Oh. My. God. The point was that you should be counting the time you are online as working time. You first argued that you don't count all that time because you do things around the house. We have now agreed that you can't do anything and everything while you're online because you have to be ready to go at a moment's notice. What exactly is your point?


Oh. My. God. Why are you so perturbed?

I just see it in a different way. That's all. I'm cool with that, and I think you should be too.


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## everestsdad (Feb 24, 2015)

?


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## jimx200 (Oct 31, 2014)

I drove for six months starting in March of last year. I bailed after the big mileage drop hit in July. There is just no way to come out ahead with too many $5-$7. fares, insurance costs, gas, depreciation, and combine that with driving to a pax and then having them cancel..fark no. When I started, the iphone was included (no deposit) and I was not charged the $40. a month fee. After getting stiffed by Uber for a few rides where the iphone app quit mid ride, I sent the phone back and never going back to this charade. Of the 7-8 drivers I met, everyone is gone except one! What does that tell you. Oh and I still have some what appears to be bleach spots in my back seat caused by some passenger. I did this little gig to build up my vacation fund and worked about 16-20 hours a week. Moved on with my part time photography biz to supplement my sales job and working less part-time hours and making a whole lot more than I ever did with Uber.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

jimx200 said:


> Of the 7-8 drivers I met, everyone is gone except one! What does that tell you.


That one of them has been able to keep expenses low and drive at the right times in the right places with the right expectations.

That said, it's good that you got out when you found that you couldn't make it work financially. Some self-employed folks wait too long to make that decision.


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## Macholindo007 (Aug 4, 2015)

Champ said:


> I keep seeing people on post saying they are losing money by working for uber. But they are still driving for uber. If I see myself not making any type of profit and still driving. I just really want to know are people really losing money or are they just trying to scare new drivers off?


 Well it is true, I have a 4 pass new SUB and I get paid as an old Corolla. Uber don't care about you, just what profit they will get.


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## Macholindo007 (Aug 4, 2015)

Uber should get those prices up, there is a big margin between taxi rates and Uber, get those 4,5,6 dollars rides out.
Everybody should get pay as XL.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Macholindo007 said:


> Uber should get those prices up, there is a big margin between taxi rates and Uber, get those 4,5,6 dollars rides out.
> Everybody should get pay as XL.


UberX: uber takes $1srf + 20%
UberXL: uber takes $1srf + 28%

Oftentimes, the mileage rates end up being very similar, if not the exact same rate after Uber's cut.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Macholindo007 said:


> Well it is true, I have a 4 pass new SUB and I get paid as an old Corolla. Uber don't care about you, just what profit they will get.


I think the lesson is not to use an expensive new vehicle to drive UberX.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

renbutler said:


> I think the lesson is not to use an expensive new vehicle to drive UberX.


Others have pointed out that as depreciation goes down, maintenance costs go up. So, for instance, my Honda Pilot that I was driving was fully paid for, but I had to have the shocks replaced for $1,000. I had the timing belt changed for another $1,000. New tires, brakes, etc.

I calculated that I was operating at around 26 cents per mile, but I wasn't properly insured. Even at that extremely low rate, I was barely breaking even after dead miles, taxes, etc.


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## neweagle (May 13, 2015)

I really feel for people who are attempting to make Uber their full-time, or substantial part time gig. I have a full-time job, so I have to treat this like, as the saying goes about football, "a game of inches" and earn money in bite-sized chunks.

One thing that I've learned to do is integrate Uber drives into my daily commute to/from work, which is 19 miles, and takes me 30 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the afternoon (don't ask me why it's so different; that's the crazy ATL traffic). For example, let's say that I leave the house in the AM, go online, and pick up a couple of riders worth $15 (after Uber 20% and SRF) and end up driving a total of 35 miles from my house to the office, and it takes me 90 minutes to get to the office by way of the Uber rides. As far as I'm concerned, my income from Uber is based on the 16 miles and 1 hour that is over and above what I would have had to drive anyway to get to the office. So if I end up clearing $15 from the two rides, then, as far as I'm concerned, I made about 1 dollar per mile and $15 per hour. Yeah, it's basically a psychological head fake, but I consider it to be a very efficient use of my time, while reducing the wear and tear on my vehicle, plus adding a huge tax benefit to my commute. Plus, when the evening comes, I'm not under as much pressure to drive if I already have 5 rides and 30-40 bucks on the books.


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## UbernaryJames (Aug 6, 2015)

renbutler said:


> I wish the rates were higher. But any independent contractor needs to know that, to survive, he must keep expenses very low. That means driving reliable cars that have low costs to own and operate. If anything, cars are more reliable now than ever before. But if they are driving newer cars, they need to expect insurance to be high to cover the cost.
> 
> Why would anybody expect rates to increase? All Uber needs is a large number of drivers. Only when the net number decreases does Uber have any incentive to raise rates.
> 
> I agree that the free market should rule here. But as long as Uber is able to be profitable, and every single driver is doing this by his/her own will, there is no incentive to change the current model. No matter how much we want a rate increase.


There were news reports today suggesting that Uber is now worth more than $50 billion dollars and investing huge amounts of money in expansion to other markets. That being said, Uber is doing well and improving its business in many existing markets. Given these facts, and I'm not an economist, what would prompt Uber to change its business plan and increase benefits and compensation to its partners?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UbernaryJames said:


> There were news reports today suggesting that Uber is now worth more than $50 billion dollars and investing huge amounts of money in expansion to other markets. That being said, Uber is doing well and improving its business in many existing markets. Given these facts, and I'm not an economist, what would prompt Uber to change its business plan and increase benefits and compensation to its partners?


Maybe if insurance companies and law enforcement were to start going after unlicensed drivers, you'd see a dent.


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

UbernaryJames said:


> what would prompt Uber to change its business plan and increase benefits and compensation to its partners?


That is being determined in court as we speak. Along with those perks will be work "employee" accountability like how you better dress, stricter code of conduct, when to work, where to work, etc...do you really want them to have more control over you?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Jason2k15 said:


> That is being determined in court as we speak. Along with those perks will be work "employee" accountability like how you better dress, stricter code of conduct, when to work, where to work, etc...do you really want them to have more control over you?


Stricter code of conduct? Um, they can deactivate you at any moment if they so much as hear a rumor about you that they don't like.

Do I want to be an uber employee? No. But you are only presenting the negatives that come with being an employee. The positives: reduced tax burden, access to benefits (i. e. unemployment), fair wages (or at least minimum wage)...


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Stricter code of conduct? Um, they can deactivate you at any moment if they so much as hear a rumor about you that they don't like.
> 
> Do I want to be an uber employee? No. But you are only presenting the negatives that come with being an employee. The positives: reduced tax burden, access to benefits (i. e. unemployment), fair wages (or at least minimum wage)...


Taxes? If you call 1/3 of your check getting wiped out to the State & IRS etc, an advantage then I am afraid I don't agree with you there. I'd rather write off my business expenses than pay those type of taxes. Fair Wages? Do you honestly think a wage would pay more than being able to earn unlimited with a 80/20 commission structure? The negatives far exceed the positives. I guess there is comfort in being a corporate slave so-to-speak.


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