# Uber loses in court



## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Great news. Uber loses first court battle to avoid ab5.


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## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

Hopindrew said:


> Great news. Uber loses first court battle to avoid ab5.


They always lose....then they appeal and appeal and appeal


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Uberchampion said:


> They always lose....then they appeal and appeal and appeal


They will lose this and it will spread. New Jersey is about to do the same thing. They're close to dipping into their ipo money raised. 1.5 to 2 years Uber will go out of business.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Uber has no one but itself to blame for these action brought about. Uber created an atmosphere of abuse and distrust. Uber came about by using shady business practices and now it’s coming full circle.
Investors are going to abandon Uber, drivers are going to abandon Uber, and passengers will abandon Uber.
The concept was good, but greed and incompetence created Uber’s demise.
Now you see why Travis Kalanick sold all his holdings in the company, he knew it was a sham and cashed out ASAP.


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## uberdonkey99 (Jun 12, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> Uber has no one but itself to blame for these action brought about. Uber created an atmosphere of abuse and distrust. Uber came about by using shady business practices and now it's coming full circle.
> Investors are going to abandon Uber, drivers are going to abandon Uber, and passengers will abandon Uber.
> The concept was good, but greed and incompetence created Uber's demise.
> Now you see why Travis Kalanick sold all his holdings in the company, he knew it was a sham and cashed out ASAP.


The purpose of Uber was to make Kalanick and the other founders billionaires.

It was never intended to be a proper business model .... just a scam to get a big IPO so that Kalanick and friends could cash in and GTFO.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

Uber does not care. Ultimately, they can cease operations and go home with billions. Watch what happens,the river of tears will flow ....



uberdonkey99 said:


> The purpose of Uber was to make Kalanick and the other founders billionaires.
> 
> It was never intended to be a proper business model .... just a scam to get a big IPO so that Kalanick and friends could cash in and GTFO.


Bingo...i love how people come here and analyze and pick apart and claim all sorts of legal or moral remedies, meanwhile boris is twisting his mustache and laughing his ass off.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

uberdonkey99 said:


> The purpose of Uber was to make Kalanick and the other founders billionaires.
> 
> It was never intended to be a proper business model .... just a scam to get a big IPO so that Kalanick and friends could cash in and GTFO.


exactly.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Hopindrew said:


> They will lose this and it will spread. New Jersey is about to do the same thing. They're close to dipping into their ipo money raised. 1.5 to 2 years Uber will go out of business.


Maybe the rideshare companies will get smart and find a price point where they are cheaper than taxis but there still is enough money to go around. There's no reason why they have to offer such a dirt cheap service.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Uberchampion said:


> They always lose....then they appeal and appeal and appeal


not in this case, in most cases they can hide behind the arbitration clause, AB5 has no arbitration clause

at the end of this lawsuit they will have no choice but to admit we are employees and then we get to unionize


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> Great news. Uber loses first court battle to avoid ab5.


------------------------
Show news link when you post statement like this one, please.

This article states that Postmates is about to file for an IPO - now that is news.
Keep in mind that attorneys use these types of filings to get an idea of what the courts are thinking and what facts are relevant when
presenting a case in court. Also, this is the opinion of one district judge in the entire process. There are several parts to this court case that are under consideration.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/c...lenge-to-california-gig-worker-law/ar-BBZRokn
*Uber Loses Early Challenge to California Gig-Worker Law*

*A federal judge in Los Angles rejected a request by Uber and Postmates Inc. to temporarily block enforcement of Assembly Bill 5, which aims to convert gig-economy workers from independent contractors to employees with benefits. Uber and Postmates didn't ask the judge to shield other companies from the law.

U.S. District Judge Dolly M. Gee had signaled during a Feb. 7 hearing that she would deny the preliminary injunction sought by Uber and Postmates.
cont'd *


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

uberdonkey99 said:


> It was never intended to be a proper business model .... just a scam to get a big IPO so that Kalanick and friends could cash in and GTFO.


Right. As I explain to pax, I could buy up all the local TVs at my local Walmart and then set myself up in the parking lot and sell them at half price. I would get great sales. I could keep this up for as long as I could keep finding gullible investors to subsidise the sales to my customers. I would then go public and cut & run before the house of cards came tumbling down.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> Great news. Uber loses first court battle to avoid ab5.


--------------------
Also, they really did not lose. The court refused to allow a temporary injunction on AB5 ( no part be activated ) while the issues are in the California court systems. Particularly, the proposition on the upcoming ballot in Nov 2020.


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## Nina2 (Oct 6, 2018)

Postmates also lost as well as they joined the same lawsuit as Uber but oddly none of the other rideshare or food delivery companies chose to join the lawsuit but if Door Dash or Grub Hub or Lyft joined Uber and Postmates they would have won


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Maybe the rideshare companies will get smart and find a price point where they are cheaper than taxis but there still is enough money to go around. There's no reason why they have to offer such a dirt cheap service.


I don't think that's possible.

One of the reasons taxis cost what they do is that they have expenses and the drivers have to get paid, then they have to turn a profit.

The taxi companies can own the vehicles and save money on maintenance (vs drivers going to dealerships for repairs) by handling everything in house. They also keep the cars on the road for 300,000+ miles. And to boot they get killer deals doing a bulk purchase of cars for the fleet.

Then they can save money by self insuring.

Once the cab companies are doing all of this, and turning a profit...

What your left with is taxis being priced where they are.










Anyone care to take a guess where the taxi shop is in this picture?

Well it's ALL the "_Shop_"

There's multiple buildings, support structures, a fueling station, training and orientation, human resources, call center, insurance department, legal, a car wash and you know what pays for this?

Me paying 1/3-1/2 of my revenue to the cab company. And they turn a profit to...

This is the support infrastructure needed in one city for 1,000 cars. (taxis, chauffeured town-cars, limos, shuttles)

Uber has never had both happy driver and a profitable bottom line. The prices are inching up and currently neither is happening.

Is it possible for them to be profitable and have happy drivers?

I don't know....

But frankly i doubt it.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

_Any company that can not be successful with a 30% gross profit has no business being in business._


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Hopindrew said:


> Great news. Uber loses first court battle to avoid ab5.


Why is this great news? Most of us do not want to be an employee.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> Why is this great news? Most of us do not want to be an employee.





The Gift of Fish said:


> Right. As I explain to pax, I could buy up all the local TVs at my local Walmart and then set myself up in the parking lot and sell them at half price. I would get great sales. I could keep this up for as long as I could keep finding gullible investors to subsidise the sales to my customers. I would then go public and cut & run before the house of cards came tumbling down.


the only reason you could be happy being paid what you're being paid now means you don't need the money. People who need to make a living need to become employees to be paid fairly.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Hopindrew said:


> the only reason you could be happy being paid what you're being paid now means you don't need the money. People who need to make a living need to become employees to be paid fairly.


Happy? No. Irritated that pay has dropped, yes. What I am being paid now is still OK, 20-25 an hour is OK in my market.

Becoming an employee in the US is not a hard task, why are so many complaining about it?


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## producemanjames (Jun 20, 2018)

If you want to be an employee rideshare driver is not the answer. Find a real job. Rideshare should be supplemental income only.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

producemanjames said:


> If you want to be an employee rideshare driver is not the answer. Find a real job. Rideshare should be supplemental income only.


it should pay enough that you can make it a full time job if you put in the hours.

In my town there's 80+ good hours a week.

these are hours good enough to keep you reasonably busy in a taxi in 2020.

Theres zero reason people can make this business work in a taxi in 2020 and can't make it work doing Uber/lyft full time.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> the only reason you could be happy being paid what you're being paid now means you don't need the money. People who need to make a living need to become employees to be paid fairly.


I'm "hopin" you quoted me by mistake. Because what you wrote under my post is not relevant to or related to my post in any way.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Hopindrew said:


> Great news. Uber loses first court battle to avoid ab5.


Uber always appeal hoping to find a judge they can bribe at drivers rates.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

producemanjames said:


> If you want to be an employee rideshare driver is not the answer. Find a real job. Rideshare should be supplemental income only.


Absolutely not. rideshare like anything else meant to earn money is a job therefore one deserves a decent wage. Your comment is selfish. Anyone working a job deserves a fair wage regardless of the job.


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## sf1000 (Feb 14, 2020)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Maybe the rideshare companies will get smart and find a price point where they are cheaper than taxis but there still is enough money to go around. There's no reason why they have to offer such a dirt cheap service.


can i ask u how much it should be (in %)? cause i'm trying to get an answer but honestly i don't know
(P.S. i'm sorry, i accidentally reported your message, i'm sorry)


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## producemanjames (Jun 20, 2018)

Hopindrew said:


> Absolutely not. rideshare like anything else meant to earn money is a job therefore one deserves a decent wage. Your comment is selfish. Anyone working a job deserves a fair wage regardless of the job.


so you think entry-level employees at McDonald's should be able to make a career out of it? Then don't complain when Big Macs cost eight bucks each.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

producemanjames said:


> so you think entry-level employees at McDonald's should be able to make a career out of it? Then don't complain when Big Macs cost eight bucks each.


if you want to work for free go work as a volunteer at a non profit. Don't think you should work at a big company for so little.



producemanjames said:


> so you think entry-level employees at McDonald's should be able to make a career out of it? Then don't complain when Big Macs cost eight bucks each.


McDonald's employees start at much better than you're making



producemanjames said:


> so you think entry-level employees at McDonald's should be able to make a career out of it? Then don't complain when Big Macs cost eight bucks each.


smarten up produce man. You're obviously not very bright


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

sf1000 said:


> can i ask u how much it should be (in %)? cause i'm trying to get an answer but honestly i don't know
> (P.S. i'm sorry, i accidentally reported your message, i'm sorry)


It should be more. It should be enough below the cost of a taxi to give users incentive to use rideshare. It should be enough that the rideshare companies can turn a profit and it should be enough that drivers can make a decent living (afford health insurance, a roof over their head, and a few dollars left over).


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## producemanjames (Jun 20, 2018)

Hopindrew said:


> if you want to work for free go work as a volunteer at a non profit. Don't think you should work at a big company for so little.
> 
> 
> McDonald's employees start at much better than you're making
> ...


Uber is what it should be for me, a side gig. Nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, I get paid what I'm worth at both my career and my side gig. I don't take trips that are losers and I don't expect Uber to be a main source of income for my family. I'd be fine if I stopped driving tomorrow. There are jobs and there are careers. Uber is NOT a career.


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## Workforfood (May 12, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> --------------------
> Also, they really did not lose. The court refused to allow a temporary injunction on AB5 ( no part be activated ) while the issues are in the California court systems. Particularly, the proposition on the upcoming ballot in Nov 2020.


This means that until they complete their case they must be in compliance with ab5 or pay the fines.



producemanjames said:


> Uber is what it should be for me, a side gig. Nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, I get paid what I'm worth at both my career and my side gig. I don't take trips that are losers and I don't expect Uber to be a main source of income for my family. I'd be fine if I stopped driving tomorrow. There are jobs and there are careers. Uber is NOT a career.


Aren't you so special!!!


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

producemanjames said:


> Uber is what it should be for me, a side gig. Nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, I get paid what I'm worth at both my career and my side gig. I don't take trips that are losers and I don't expect Uber to be a main source of income for my family. I'd be fine if I stopped driving tomorrow. There are jobs and there are careers. Uber is NOT a career.


Unfortunately Uber needs full-time drivers to actually exist. Drivers such as yourself maybe account for 25% of bookings that get done. The balance done by drivers working 35 hours a week or more. 
This brings us back to the question as to whether drivers provide an essential service or not? If so should they be forced to live in poverty for providing said service?


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## Workforfood (May 12, 2018)

Workforfood said:


> This means that until they complete their case they must be in compliance with ab5 or pay the fines.
> 
> 
> Aren't you so special!!!


Many drivers aren't so lucky. They don't have other marketable skills but are trying to make an honest living. The tension between labor and management is ages old. While we in the United States have experienced a severe erosion of worker's Rights and remuneration, the pendulum may be swinging back the other way. Ab5 is an example.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> People who need to make a living need to become employees to be paid fairly.


If that's the case, get a real job!


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

producemanjames said:


> Uber is what it should be for me, a side gig. Nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, I get paid what I'm worth at both my career and my side gig. I don't take trips that are losers and I don't expect Uber to be a main source of income for my family. I'd be fine if I stopped driving tomorrow. There are jobs and there are careers. Uber is NOT a career.


Uber is a job and a job requires fair pay. You're obviously don't know what you're talking about. You're stupid



Uber's Guber said:


> If that's the case, get a real job!


Uber isn't a job? I believe it is.



producemanjames said:


> Uber is what it should be for me, a side gig. Nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, I get paid what I'm worth at both my career and my side gig. I don't take trips that are losers and I don't expect Uber to be a main source of income for my family. I'd be fine if I stopped driving tomorrow. There are jobs and there are careers. Uber is NOT a career.





Uber's Guber said:


> If that's the case, get a real job!


listen gramps when drivers in your are area become employees Uber won't want you anymore.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> Uber is a job and a job requires fair pay. You're obviously don't know what you're talking about. *You're stupid*


...said the full-timer career Uber driver. :biggrin:



Hopindrew said:


> listen gramps when drivers in your are area become employees Uber won't want you anymore.


Listen Millie, I don't need Uber either. :thumbup:


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I'm not going to say that there aren't some markets that have less than 40 good hours a week. But if you take 6 Pm- 2:00 AM Friday/Saturday and 4:00 Am to 8:00 AM Monday-Friday...

That's already _over 40 hours_ a week...

There's at least _80 good hours_ in my market, Hours that you can get pings steady and consistently.

The fact that when your GETTING PINGS you STILL can't make anything here?

Yeah...

It's not like there's not a reasonable number of good enough hours to keep someone busy.

But taking 15-20 minutes on a $3.00 ping? That's never going to make you anything but sad.


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## Wrb06wrx (Sep 20, 2017)

Uber is a job yes but being an employee is not good as uber is losing money hand over fist and for them to have to take on all that overhead will literally put them out of business. 
Independent contracting is the best way for this gig to be done what they need to do is raise the bar for vehicles and drivers so they can put rates back to where they were 2.5/3years ago when it was lucrative for the drivers.


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