# Uber says tip factored in? really?!



## corpsman2012

We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Wow!!! This is an amazing revelation! Why hasn't anyone else thought to question Fuber's math/reasoning? 
Thank you.....let's jump in here and figure this out.


----------



## unter ling

Its uber math, just like lower fares = more rides = more money.


----------



## corpsman2012

"Being Uber means there is no need to tip drivers with any of our services.
When using uberTAXI (requesting a ride from a cab via the Uber app, available in select cities), drivers will input the metered fare into the Uber driver application. In most cities-and all cities in the United States-a default 20% of the metered fare will be automatically added and paid to the driver as a gratuity. You can select the default percentage amount of the gratuity by signing into your account at uber.com then clicking the 'Payment' link at the top." How do they figure?!


----------



## UrbanFisherman

corpsman2012 said:


> "Being Uber means there is no need to tip drivers with any of our services.
> When using uberTAXI (requesting a ride from a cab via the Uber app, available in select cities), drivers will input the metered fare into the Uber driver application. In most cities-and all cities in the United States-a default 20% of the metered fare will be automatically added and paid to the driver as a gratuity. You can select the default percentage amount of the gratuity by signing into your account at uber.com then clicking the 'Payment' link at the top." How do they figure?!


Where ya find that? Yeah I've heard that it's factored in, but how do they explain it when they cut the fares? So they cut our tips with the fares? Or is the fare the tip? Whatever the case, here in Atlanta, we get 75 cents per mile after they take their 20% out.  Imagine that. Imagine the new hires, driving around, burning up gas desperately chasing fares. After you factor in gas and the all the snacks and energy drinks you consume while waiting for the $5 ride, is it really 75 cents a mile? Or are you working for free. Thank uber for those winter guarantees


----------



## Actionjax

corpsman2012 said:


> "Being Uber means there is no need to tip drivers with any of our services.
> When using uberTAXI (requesting a ride from a cab via the Uber app, available in select cities), drivers will input the metered fare into the Uber driver application. In most cities-and all cities in the United States-a default 20% of the metered fare will be automatically added and paid to the driver as a gratuity. You can select the default percentage amount of the gratuity by signing into your account at uber.com then clicking the 'Payment' link at the top." How do they figure?!


Welcome to the Forum. You may find many of what you are talking about in the Tips section of the complaints area. This has been discussed in detail. You may find a post that you can add your feelings to the topic.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Actionjax said:


> Welcome to the Forum. You may find many of what you are talking about in the Tips section of the complaints area. This has been discussed in detail. You may find a post that you can add your feelings to the topic.


What?!!!! Read existing posts before starting a new one? Whatever for? When you need to vent....you need to vent NOW! Who has time for all that reading/searching stuff?


----------



## Actionjax

Former Yellow Driver said:


> What?!!!! Read existing posts before starting a new one? Whatever for? When you need to vent....you need to vent NOW! Who has time for all that reading/searching stuff?


I was trying to say it in a nice way.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Actionjax said:


> I was trying to say it in a nice way.


That's one the many things people like about the two of us.......we are BOTH so pleasant and tactful.
Fuber on.


----------



## Actionjax

Former Yellow Driver said:


> That's one the many things people like about the two of us.......we are BOTH so pleasant and tactful.
> Fuber on.


Sydney Uber would probably disagree with you on at least one of those points. 

I think I need to poke his cave again and wake him up. I miss his banter...I may just start some sort of tipping thread...that always gets him going.


----------



## Txchick

corpsman2012 said:


> "Being Uber means there is no need to tip drivers with any of our services.
> When using uberTAXI (requesting a ride from a cab via the Uber app, available in select cities), drivers will input the metered fare into the Uber driver application. In most cities-and all cities in the United States-a default 20% of the metered fare will be automatically added and paid to the driver as a gratuity. You can select the default percentage amount of the gratuity by signing into your account at uber.com then clicking the 'Payment' link at the top." How do they figure?!


Tipping to driver via Uber's app for pax is only available to Uber Taxi.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


POST # 1 / CORPSMAN2012: □ □ □ Welcome
to the UP.net Forums and "HOOAHH!" if
appropriate. Please consider that carefully
reading the contents of Forum Threads to
be your Fuber Basic Training (I s☆☆t you not.)

Good luck. Happy Hunting and Happy
New Year from Marco Island, FL.


----------



## pengduck

Former Yellow Driver said:


> What?!!!! Read existing posts before starting a new one? Whatever for? When you need to vent....you need to vent NOW! Who has time for all that reading/searching stuff?


Yeah just like the pax. Now damnit now!


----------



## UberHammer

The key word is "factored". 

In UberSpeak that means a "doctored fact".


----------



## Realityshark

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


With all due respect, you must be a new driver . This is really old news and actually there are class action lawsuits currently going on that have called Uber out on this particular lie.


----------



## Uberslop

Just enjoy your driving, the rest let Uber take care. Dont worry your feeling is also their priority.


----------



## pengduck

Uberslop said:


> Just enjoy your driving, the rest let Uber take care. Dont worry your feeling is also their priority.


Not to mention your earnings. total BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jook

I hope I'm not violating any rules, but as of now, I am only a passenger. I have thought about becoming a driver, hence my reason for joining the site.

Regarding tips. I admit, you folks probably hate me cuz I never tipped except if the driver did something special, like wait while I dropped off my dry cleaning. However, as has been stated here, Uber misleads its customers into thinking that you guys get a tip from the fare. After 6 months of riding, it's just come to my attention that you don't. I feel terrible that I never tipped.

But I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip. You collect most of the fare unlike other cabbies. I have heard that as an argument not to tip. Then again, the fares are considerably lower, so that sort of mitigates that side of the argument. Frankly, I don't care so much about saving money... I am thrilled that there is a service with decent cars and all the conveniences that Uber offers. Tipping would mitigate any savings, at least for how I use the service. The question is, what do you expect a passenger to tip? However, one thing I will not do is pay more than I do with local taxis.

I personally think it's despicable that Uber misleads its customers. At least Lyft is upfront and their payment system is geared towards leaving a tip. But ya know, Lyft is more expensive than Uber, at least in Jersey City, and with a tip, the fare comes out more than the stinking Jersey City cabs. I'd rather put up with the stinky cab for 15 minutes than pay more.

Again, I hope I'm not stepping on toes for being here. But I would like to do the right thing. That means that the driver will make a decent wage. I define that as at least as much as cabbie. Fyi, there is a forum in Jersey City where this is under discussion, jclist.


----------



## Gemgirlla

Actionjax said:


> I was trying to say it in a nice way.


You need a different outfit on to play moderator. .


----------



## Gemgirlla

Than


Jook said:


> I hope I'm not violating any rules, but as of now, I am only a passenger. I have thought about becoming a driver, hence my reason for joining the site.
> 
> Regarding tips. I admit, you folks probably hate me cuz I never tipped except if the driver did something special, like wait while I dropped off my dry cleaning. However, as has been stated here, Uber misleads its customers into thinking that you guys get a tip from the fare. After 6 months of riding, it's just come to my attention that you don't. I feel terrible that I never tipped.
> 
> But I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip. You collect most of the fare unlike other cabbies. I have heard that as an argument not to tip. Then again, the fares are considerably lower, so that sort of mitigates that side of the argument. Frankly, I don't care so much about saving money... I am thrilled that there is a service with decent cars and all the conveniences that Uber offers. Tipping would mitigate any savings, at least for how I use the service. The question is, what do you expect a passenger to tip? However, one thing I will not do is pay more than I do with local taxis.
> 
> I personally think it's despicable that Uber misleads its customers. At least Lyft is upfront and their payment system is geared towards leaving a tip. But ya know, Lyft is more expensive than Uber, at least in Jersey City, and with a tip, the fare comes out more than the stinking Jersey City cabs. I'd rather put up with the stinky cab for 15 minutes than pay more.
> 
> Again, I hope I'm not stepping on toes for being here. But I would like to do the right thing. That means that the driver will make a decent wage. I define that as at least as much as cabbie. Fyi, there is a forum in Jersey City where this is under discussion, jclist.


 thanks for your comments. Welcome to the forum. You can post whatever you want. If it is considered off topic or controversial our lovely moderator in a police suit (and I mean that sincerely) will let you know.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Jook said:


> But I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip. You collect most of the fare unlike other cabbies. I have heard that as an argument not to tip.


 When I was a Yellow cab driver I kept ALL the money INCLUDING all the tips which averaged 20%....for me. Either at the end of the night , or once a week I would pay some of that money to the cab company for the lease. That money covered insurance, maintenance, licensing and advertising and the ability to pickup passengers at the airport and on the street (hails). It was as a percentage not much different than the amount I pay Fuber (28% + $1.00 safety fee). Am I getting from Fuber anywhere NEAR the same value as I was from the cab company? No....not even close. I don't know who made the argument to you that because I'm "partnering" with Fuber.....I'm getting all the money and shouldn't be tipped.....but please tell him/her to blow me....and I mean that in the kindest possible way.


Jook said:


> The question is, what do you expect a passenger to tip? However, one thing I will not do is pay more than I do with local taxis.


Why wouldn't you pay more than local taxis? Are you receiving lower cost and better service from cleaner and more polite drivers that are picking you up in cleaner/nicer cars? Do you prefer taxis? 20% is the going rate but please explain WHY you wouldn't tip a Fuber driver more than a cab driver.


----------



## Jook

Former Yellow Driver said:


> When I was a Yellow cab driver I kept ALL the money INCLUDING all the tips which averaged 20%....for me. Either at the end of the night , or once a week I would pay some of that money to the cab company for the lease. That money covered insurance, maintenance, licensing and advertising and the ability to pickup passengers at the airport and on the street (hails). It was as a percentage not much different than the amount I pay Fuber (28% + $1.00 safety fee). Am I getting from Fuber anywhere NEAR the same value as I was from the cab company? No....not even close. I don't know who made the argument to you that because I'm "partnering" with Fuber.....I'm getting all the money and shouldn't be tipped.....but please tell him/her to blow me....and I mean that in the kindest possible way.
> Why wouldn't you pay more than local taxis? Are you receiving lower cost and better service from cleaner and more polite drivers that are picking you up in cleaner/nicer cars? Do you prefer taxis? 20% is the going rate but please explain WHY you wouldn't tip a Fuber driver more than a cab driver.


The 28% that you pay Uber includes federal tax, right? I think someone told me it;s 10%. So that money is not really going to Uber. If I recall, fleet taxis when I drove did not withhold any taxes. In either case, they had to be paid one way or the other.

I understand where both of you are coming from. For the record, I drove a medallion taxi in NYC in the early 70s while I was in school, so I understand how difficult the job is. Fleets dominated the market and the driver got 49% or 51%, I forget which, plus paid for tolls and gas. I used to make about $100 a shift which was ok at the time, especially for a college kid. My dad was a union person and I've worked in restaurants for the past 20+ years, so I sympathize with the tipped sector of society and consider myself generous. My standard tip to yellow taxis in NYC has been, for many years, 20% and I round up any change with a minimum tip of $2. For example, a $16 fare would warrant a $4 tip (20% of 16 = 3.20 and round up to $4). Now with the credit card machines, it's easy just to leave a percentage and not worry about the change, and I generally leave 25%. Frankly, I leave less to Jersey City drivers because many of them seem to do everything in their power to make you want to kill them.

Uber has gotten people to believe that riding with Uber is a better experience in a number of ways, including less costly, which includes not leaving a tip. So, perhaps it's my mindset needs to change. I think that's how most people perceive Uber to work due to the way they promote the service. My plan at the moment is to continue to use Uber and Lyft when they are not more expensive than local taxis.

If I'm just going on a 10 minute ride from the train station to my house, the stinky local cab with the smelly driver is tolerable. There's no wait whereas sometimes there's up to a 15 minute wait for Uber. The wait is even longer for Lyft as it seems they are not nearly as popular in these parts. I am not rich so saving money AND time is more important to me than comfort for such a short period. I have to think about longer rides. One thing for sure is that I will no longer use Uber or Lyft without tipping.

I'm still not sure of the amount to tip and I would love to hear HONEST and down-to-earth feedback. I've had several Uber drivers tell me they make $1500-$2000 per week. That could be fantasy, I don't know. But if it's true, it's far more than any other type of taxi driver makes. So, why should I stick with the same tipping formula of nearly 25%? What do you consider a fair tip (considering all of your expenses), one that will bring you the same or better wages than other taxi drivers? Bear in mind that it is less likely that I will use Uber/Lyft if the customary tip came out to more than 20% and I'm sure I'm not alone.


----------



## QuietViolence

Jook said:


> I'm still not sure of the amount to tip and I would love to hear HONEST and down-to-earth feedback. I've had several Uber drivers tell me they make $1500-$2000 per week. That could be fantasy, I don't know. But if it's true, it's far more than any other type of taxi driver makes. So, why should I stick with the same tipping formula of nearly 25%? What do you consider a fair tip (considering all of your expenses), one that will bring you the same or better wages than other taxi drivers? Bear in mind that it is less likely that I will use Uber/Lyft if the customary tip came out to more than 20% and I'm sure I'm not alone.


I've been driving for Uber in Los Angeles for over a year now, and don't worry, I don't hate that customers that don't tip unless, for example, they insist I carry their bags down some stairs, or wait for ten minutes at $0.20/minute while they run into a liquor store because they forgot to buy beer for the party they're going to. The reason I don't hate them is because it's really not their fault that Uber flat out lies to them about what the drivers make.

How much you should tip really depends on how far you're going, and of course whether your driver does a decent job. Keep in mind, of course, that the exploitation from Uber is a really good way to create sociopaths, so even if you get a grouchy driver, he or she might have been a cheerful person before enduring the pay cuts. Anyway, going a couple miles for the minimum fare? Keep in mind that, of the $4, we receive $2.40. Is not technically a larger cut than any other fare, but it sure seems like it when we're barely receiving half, BEFORE expenses like gas and maintenance. Anyway, throw a buck or two at a fare like that. It's not much, but trust me, the way the drivers are suffering, I'd be THRILLED if even half my passengers gave me an extra two bucks. For longer rides, throw in $5 or something, maybe $10 if you're going across town. I don't know how it is where you live, but here in LA, a $10 tip for a crosstown ride from Santa Monica to West Hollywood or Downtown would STILL mean you're paying less than you would for a cab, and probably having a much more pleasant experience.

As for the drivers claiming to make $1500-2000 a week? I've never actually met one, and I kind of think they're an Uber urban legend, but one of my riders last month said he met a guy making that claim, so I asked how many hours a week that guy works. "Ninety MINIMUM" was the answer. Seriously, when does he sleep? Honestly, I would not want to be the rider in that guy's car at the end of his shift. I think the way it probably works is he lives in a high traffic area, leaves the app on 24/7, and rolls out of bed to take a fare if it goes off. So is it physically possible to make $1500/week with Uber? Probably, yes. But it's also probably detrimental to at least the driver's health, and possibly to the health of his riders and innocent bystanders if an insane schedule like that causes him to have an accident.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Jook said:


> The 28% that you pay Uber includes federal tax, right? I think someone told me it;s 10%. So that money is not really going to Uber. If I recall, fleet taxis when I drove did not withhold any taxes.


?What are you talking about? You think that for every $10 that I pay Fuber in commissions and "safety fees" that Fuber pays the Federal government $1 that relieves me of needing to pay some tax? And this is different than taxi companies. I strongly suggest that you research this a LOT further.


Jook said:


> In either case, they had to be paid one way or the other.


Is this just a filler sentence? What does it have to do with the amount I pay Fuber vs what I paid a Yellow cab company that was NOT in NYC?


Jook said:


> One thing for sure is that I will no longer use Uber or Lyft without tipping.


 Well that's good.


Jook said:


> I've had several Uber drivers tell me they make $1500-$2000 per week. That could be fantasy, I don't know. But if it's true, it's far more than any other type of taxi driver makes.


 Assuming it's true in NYC.....what do NYC Taxi drivers make?


Jook said:


> So, why should I stick with the same tipping formula of nearly 25%?


 Because you have a LOT of misinformation and you have made false assumptions based on that flawed information. If you just want a cheaper way to get from point A to point B and you need to justify cheaping out on tipping your Fuber/Lyft driver....go right ahead. You won't be getting a virgin.


Jook said:


> What do you consider a fair tip (considering all of your expenses), one that will bring you the same or better wages than other taxi drivers? Bear in mind that it is less likely that I will use Uber/Lyft if the customary tip came out to more than 20% and I'm sure I'm not alone.


20% and hopefully you and any other entitled customers with similar attitudes continue to take cabs instead of Fuber/Lyft. Oh wait....why did you start using Fuber in the first place? That's right.....cleaner cars, cleaner drivers....LESS money. It's really all about the money and how little you can pay....isn't it?

Please don't bother to reply to MY post until you've actually educated yourself about both the taxi industry and Fuber/Lyft. And no need to even bother doing THAT if all you need is a reason to **** Fuber drivers.....just do it.....while you can.


----------



## Jook

Former Yellow Driver said:


> ?What are you talking about? You think that for every $10 that I pay Fuber in commissions and "safety fees" that Fuber pays the Federal government $1 that relieves me of needing to pay some tax? And this is different than taxi companies. I strongly suggest that you research this a LOT further.
> Is this just a filler sentence? What does it have to do with the amount I pay Fuber vs what I paid a Yellow cab company that was NOT in NYC?
> Well that's good.


I'm an accountant (CPA) and you are talking out of your rear end. While I'm not totally up on the tax laws since I work in private industry, I think I know a heck of a lot more than you. It is clear you have no understanding how taxes work for self-employed people.




> Assuming





> it's true in NYC.....what do NYC Taxi drivers make?
> Because you have a LOT of misinformation and you have made false assumptions based on that flawed information. If you just want a cheaper way to get from point A to point B and you need to justify cheaping out on tipping your Fuber/Lyft driver....go right ahead. You won't be getting a virgin.


Is this a forum for venting anger? You're barking up the wrong tree. Talk to Uber. I don't believe I made any assumptions but asked a lot of questions in order to do the right thing. This is also a free country and you are free to use your skills in another line of work. Since you apparently don't like this one and hate your customers and employer, perhaps it's time for a change.



> 20% and hopefully you and any other entitled customers with similar attitudes continue to take cabs instead of Fuber/Lyft. Oh wait....why did you start using Fuber in the first place? That's right.....cleaner cars, cleaner drivers....LESS money. It's really all about the money and how little you can pay....isn't it?





> Please don't bother to reply to MY post until you've actually educated yourself about both the taxi industry and Fuber/Lyft. And no need to even bother doing THAT if all you need is a reason to **** Fuber drivers.....just do it.....while you can.


Please don't bother to reply until you learn basic reading comprehension. I am in Fort Lauderdale often and I will make sure to avoid Uber. That should make you happy.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

The other night I had a passenger say to me at the end of the trip "are you all good?" I said to him everything is good, and then I drove off. Later I realize what was meant by the question, "is the tip included"? I wish I had said something different to him, something to help him to understand that the tip is NOT included. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to say to that question without seeming desperate for tips? 

I always appreciate tips and I do not follow the standard policy of informing them that they don't have to tip. I simply say thank you very much, I appreciate that! And in that way I am not reinforcing the false idea that the tip is included. I see any tip I received as a windfall. I would never suggest that it is a requirement. But I do not want to discourage tipping in anyway. Any suggestions?


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Jook said:


> I'm an accountant (CPA) and you are talking out of your rear end. While I'm not totally up on the tax laws since I work in private industry, I think I know a heck of a lot more than you. It is clear you have no understanding how taxes work for self-employed people


 Bully for you CPA.....BTW ...why am I not surprised that you are a CPA? Again....explain what your 10% is all about. Keep in mind that BOTH Fuber drivers AND most cab drivers are "self-employed". Oh wait ....this wasn't another false ASSUMPTION on your part was it?


Jook said:


> I don't believe I made any assumptions...


 re-read the driblle you posted...."I heard" "I've been told" I thought" How about supporting some of that 2nd handed crap misinformation with a few links where you actually researched this stuff?


Jook said:


> This is also a free country and you are free to use your skills in another line of work. Since you apparently don't like this one and hate your customers and employer, perhaps it's time for a change.


 Perhaps....however that will be MY decision and not some cheap ass entitled passenger without a clue looking to justify screwing his Fuber/Lyft drivers.


Jook said:


> Please don't bother to reply until you learn basic reading comprehension.


 My reading comprehension skills are just fine......evidently NOT something you can claim about your own


Jook said:


> I am in Fort Lauderdale often and I will make sure to avoid Uber. That should make you happy.


Yes.....there is a God. Thank you. BTW - you might want to work on your French before taking a cab in Ft. Lauderdale.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

Jook said:


> I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip.


Fivers are terrific! Teners even better! Even so, I would happily recieve one's as well.

Are any of you drivers using "square" to complete transactions via credit card?


----------



## Jook

UberXtraordinary said:


> The other night I had a passenger say to me at the end of the trip "are you all good?" I said to him everything is good, and then I drove off. Later I realize what was meant by the question, "is the tip included"? I wish I had said something different to him, something to help him to understand that the tip is NOT included. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to say to that question without seeming desperate for tips?
> 
> I always appreciate tips and I do not follow the standard policy of informing them that they don't have to tip. I simply say thank you very much, I appreciate that! And in that way I am not reinforcing the false idea that the tip is included. I see any tip I received as a windfall. I would never suggest that it is a requirement. But I do not want to discourage tipping in anyway. Any suggestions?


As a passenger, I started questioning Uber's policies when I saw a sign hanging on the back of the passenger seat to the effect that tips are appreciated. That led me to question the driver about tipping and do further research. And now I will change my ways. Perhaps that is something you can do, although, I did find it a bit tacky. But it got the message across.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Jook said:


> The 28% that you pay Uber includes federal tax, right? I think someone told me it;s 10%.


*No. None of the money drivers pay Uber is for taxes; local, state or federal.*
It is a COMMISSION paid by the driver to UBER for use of their system.
The net amount a driver receives from Uber is the total FARE amount, less the $1 Safety Fee (they require drivers to charge the PAX), less 20%.
That is driver GROSS REVENUE, which is reported at year's end by Uber as 1099 (miscellaneous) INCOME.
Driver NET INCOME is:
Gross Income
less expenses (which drivers pay out-of-pocket)
less taxes​


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Jook said:


> I'm an accountant (CPA) and you are talking out of your rear end.


You may be an accountant, but you're no CPA - and you're also an idiot for talking about something you know nothing about. If you were a CPA, you would NEVER provide tax 'advice' to a non-client without a disclaimer since it could put your license at risk and open you up to malpractice. The information you are providing is FALSE and you are misguiding people. What a troll.


----------



## Jook

I did not give tax advice. Please quote the reference. I only asked if 10% of what Uber drivers were paying was going towards federal tax, not uncommon. 

I was just about to recommend that drivers see a tax consultant if no estimated taxes are being made. This does not constitute tax advice and I am not required to post a disclaimer. Go complain to the AICPA.

I'm done here. It's a very antagonistic place and I found what I was looking for anyway.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

UberXtraordinary said:


> The other night I had a passenger say to me at the end of the trip "are you all good?"


"Absolutely! Your fare is covered by the credit card you have on file with Fuber and you'll receive an email receipt within a couple of minutes. Just like most other services....tipping is optional."
This is particularly effective with first time riders.....which are also the ones that are most likely to ask you "if we are good?".


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Jook said:


> I'm done here. It's a very antagonistic place and I found what I was looking for anyway.


Good riddance!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Jook said:


> I did not give tax advice. Please quote the reference.


You wrote: blah, blah, 10% of what you pay to Uber is tax, right? So that money is not really going to Uber.<<<

"That Money Isn't Really Going To Uber." is a declarative statement of fact from a 'CPA' and is blatantly untrue.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


----------



## SCdave

Tip what you


Jook said:


> The 28% that you pay Uber includes federal tax, right? I think someone told me it;s 10%. So that money is not really going to Uber. If I recall, fleet taxis when I drove did not withhold any taxes. In either case, they had to be paid one way or the other.
> 
> I understand where both of you are coming from. For the record, I drove a medallion taxi in NYC in the early 70s while I was in school, so I understand how difficult the job is. Fleets dominated the market and the driver got 49% or 51%, I forget which, plus paid for tolls and gas. I used to make about $100 a shift which was ok at the time, especially for a college kid. My dad was a union person and I've worked in restaurants for the past 20+ years, so I sympathize with the tipped sector of society and consider myself generous. My standard tip to yellow taxis in NYC has been, for many years, 20% and I round up any change with a minimum tip of $2. For example, a $16 fare would warrant a $4 tip (20% of 16 = 3.20 and round up to $4). Now with the credit card machines, it's easy just to leave a percentage and not worry about the change, and I generally leave 25%. Frankly, I leave less to Jersey City drivers because many of them seem to do everything in their power to make you want to kill them.
> 
> Uber has gotten people to believe that riding with Uber is a better experience in a number of ways, including less costly, which includes not leaving a tip. So, perhaps it's my mindset needs to change. I think that's how most people perceive Uber to work due to the way they promote the service. My plan at the moment is to continue to use Uber and Lyft when they are not more expensive than local taxis.
> 
> If I'm just going on a 10 minute ride from the train station to my house, the stinky local cab with the smelly driver is tolerable. There's no wait whereas sometimes there's up to a 15 minute wait for Uber. The wait is even longer for Lyft as it seems they are not nearly as popular in these parts. I am not rich so saving money AND time is more important to me than comfort for such a short period. I have to think about longer rides. One thing for sure is that I will no longer use Uber or Lyft without tipping.
> 
> I'm still not sure of the amount to tip and I would love to hear HONEST and down-to-earth feedback. I've had several Uber drivers tell me they make $1500-$2000 per week. That could be fantasy, I don't know. But if it's true, it's far more than any other type of taxi driver makes. So, why should I stick with the same tipping formula of nearly 25%? What do you consider a fair tip (considering all of your expenses), one that will bring you the same or better wages than other taxi drivers? Bear in mind that it is less likely that I will use Uber/Lyft if the customary tip came out to more than 20% and I'm sure I'm not alone.


Tip whatever you feel is of value for the service you received. The point is that you understand the "No Tip" is only "Branding" by Uber.

If you don't want to Tip, don't. If you do, Tip. You live in a part of the US where Tipping is common so I'd guess you have a good feel for value vs service received.

If you are in the burbs somewhere and a Driver has to come get you and then you only have the Driver go to the market down the street for a minimum fare, do you think the "No Tip" Branding is appropriate. If so, don't tip, if not Tip what you feel meets the value.

If you have a driver wait in a fast food line at 1:30am for 10-15 minutes and think the "No Tip" Branding is appropriate then don't Tip, if not, Tip the Driver for missing out on the Bar Rush.

If you have the Driver pick you up at your home, drive to a friend's place and wait 5-15 minutes for that friend to get ready and feel the "No Tip" branding is appropriate, then don't Tip. If you think that the pennies per minute the Driver gets to wait for you are not really appropriate compensation then Tip the Driver.

If you are Drunk and you place your Pick Up pin a 1/2 mile away from were you really are, then have the driver figure out with text/calls where you really are, come and pick you up and waste his time as fair compensation only by the Uber Fare commission to the driver, then "Don't Tip". If you feel added compensation is appropriate, Tip.

If you end up not taking as many Trips because you now Tip for a service where the Driver owns the vehicle in most cases (in my part of the US) and pays for all costs for the vehicle, then that is okay with me. I'm good with slower growth if it puts more of the burden of growing the business model on Uber than on the Driver.

Other then this, I have no opinion on the Uber "No Tipping" Branding. If you have any other question, please ask.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

Jook said:


> As a passenger, I started questioning Uber's policies when I saw a sign hanging on the back of the passenger seat to the effect that tips are appreciated. That led me to question the driver about tipping and do further research. And now I will change my ways. Perhaps that is something you can do, although, I did find it a bit tacky. But it got the message across.


Not going to do the sign thing. Seems desperate, not fitting for PLUS. One thing I do is leave any tips I recieve in the center console where I keep gum n stuff. When open it to retrieve snacks for them, they may catch a glimpse of the loose bills and get the idea themselves. Subtle hint.


----------



## CityGirl

UberXtraordinary said:


> Fivers are terrific! Teners even better! Even so, I would happily recieve one's as well.
> 
> Are any of you drivers using "square" to complete transactions via credit card?


Yes, but they are few and far between. Try also the Tip Easy app.


----------



## Cemal

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


It is very simple.Our tip is included, and it is $0.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

CityGirl said:


> Yes, but they are few and far between. Try also the Tip Easy app.


Thank you! I will!


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

UberXtraordinary said:


> Subtle hint.


Too subtle.


----------



## SDUberdriver

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


_Your tip is factored in along with the great rates the riders are paying._


----------



## pengduck

Jook said:


> The 28% that you pay Uber includes federal tax, right? I think someone told me it;s 10%. So that money is not really going to Uber. If I recall, fleet taxis when I drove did not withhold any taxes. In either case, they had to be paid one way or the other.
> 
> I understand where both of you are coming from. For the record, I drove a medallion taxi in NYC in the early 70s while I was in school, so I understand how difficult the job is. Fleets dominated the market and the driver got 49% or 51%, I forget which, plus paid for tolls and gas. I used to make about $100 a shift which was ok at the time, especially for a college kid. My dad was a union person and I've worked in restaurants for the past 20+ years, so I sympathize with the tipped sector of society and consider myself generous. My standard tip to yellow taxis in NYC has been, for many years, 20% and I round up any change with a minimum tip of $2. For example, a $16 fare would warrant a $4 tip (20% of 16 = 3.20 and round up to $4). Now with the credit card machines, it's easy just to leave a percentage and not worry about the change, and I generally leave 25%. Frankly, I leave less to Jersey City drivers because many of them seem to do everything in their power to make you want to kill them.
> 
> Uber has gotten people to believe that riding with Uber is a better experience in a number of ways, including less costly, which includes not leaving a tip. So, perhaps it's my mindset needs to change. I think that's how most people perceive Uber to work due to the way they promote the service. My plan at the moment is to continue to use Uber and Lyft when they are not more expensive than local taxis.
> 
> If I'm just going on a 10 minute ride from the train station to my house, the stinky local cab with the smelly driver is tolerable. There's no wait whereas sometimes there's up to a 15 minute wait for Uber. The wait is even longer for Lyft as it seems they are not nearly as popular in these parts. I am not rich so saving money AND time is more important to me than comfort for such a short period. I have to think about longer rides. One thing for sure is that I will no longer use Uber or Lyft without tipping.
> 
> I'm still not sure of the amount to tip and I would love to hear HONEST and down-to-earth feedback. I've had several Uber drivers tell me they make $1500-$2000 per week. That could be fantasy, I don't know. But if it's true, it's far more than any other type of taxi driver makes. So, why should I stick with the same tipping formula of nearly 25%? What do you consider a fair tip (considering all of your expenses), one that will bring you the same or better wages than other taxi drivers? Bear in mind that it is less likely that I will use Uber/Lyft if the customary tip came out to more than 20% and I'm sure I'm not alone.


It's great that you understand that a tip is needed for the driver. I'm not sure of the taxi or Uber rates in Jersey City however here in Raleigh, NC our rates are .75 per mile after Uber's 20% that leaves .60 per mile so with the IRS saying it takes .575 per mile for all expenses that leaves just .025 per mile. This does not include the mileage to arrive at your location. You sound like a smart individual. I say just go with what you feel is good.


----------



## gregthedriver

Uber drivers make about 3-5 dollars an hour . That is less than 99.9 percent of American jobs. It is a dangerous job. your life is in their hands. Do you think an underpaid pissed off poor dude who is worried that they can barely pay rent and vehicle costs/maintenance and food is going to be able to focus 100 percent on doing the best job possible to avoid the dangerous situations? That they will not force themselves to work double the amount of hours a regular person works in order to make ends meet ? Do they deserve a tip? Yes and up front is best idea for your own safety


----------



## painfreepc

I am a man of very few words, so I will get straight to it, no sugar coating,

When you tip other people in the service industry, do you go through this mathematical bullshit?, if tomorrow the CEO of international house of pancakes (ihop) said "no need to tip" or "tipping is not required", you would not think tip is included in your $3 plate of flapjacks, you would not use some kind of mathematical formula to justify not tipping, you would know that to even think a tip is included would be total bullshit, here comes the no sugar coatings part,

What ever the mathematical breakdown is, it's all really none of your GD business, the fact is You do not wish to tip, because you are cheap ass MF.

*TIpping is how a client shows appreciation to the server, the only mathematical formula you need to calculate is (20% X total fare = tip $amount$)*


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


In the passenger Uber app, click the little guy in the upper left hand corner -> About -> Legal -> Terms & Conditions -> #4: Payment, last paragraph "This payment structure is intended to fully compensate the Third Party Provider for the services provided. Except with respect to taxicab transportation services requested through the Application, Uber does not designate any portion of your payment as a tip or gratuity to the Third Party Provider. Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is 'voluntary,' 'not required,' and/or 'included' in the payments you make for services provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts, beyond those described above, to the Third Party Provider. You understand and agree that, while you are free to provide additional payment as a gratuity to any Third Party Provider who provides you with services obtained through the Service, you are under no obligation to do so. Gratuities are voluntary. After you have received services obtained through the Service, you will have the opportunity to rate your experience and leave additional feedback about your Third Party Provider."


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Jook said:


> *Is this a forum for venting anger?* You're barking up the wrong tree. *Talk to Uber.* I don't believe I made any assumptions but asked a lot of questions in order to do the right thing. *This is also a free country and you are free to use your skills in another line of work*. Since you apparently don't like this one and hate your customers and employer, perhaps it's time for a change.
> 
> I am in Fort Lauderdale often and I will make sure to avoid Uber. That should make you happy.


The only way most of us have to talk to uber is through email, the same as you. Please review some of those interactions, and let us know if you would be frustrated, too. There's no talking to them!

The "you're free to use your skills elsewhere" is almost EXACTLY what the Uber Florida manager told me when I attempted to negotiate the ridiculous 28% uber fee.

After the rate drops, I refuse to work for Uber. I did quit. Lyft's rates are lower than Uber's old rates, but the Lyft app allows passengers to tip drivers. The corporate culture at Lyft seems much nicer than Uber's consistent ****-all-of-you attitudes.

Uber lies. Uber lies to passengers about tips. Uber lies to drivers and potential drivers about laws and earnings. So, yes, many of us are angry. And we come here to share information. There used to be some happy posts on here...

Try Lyft or SideCar or a taxi or a car service. Compare all of your experiences. You're free to choose something else, too.


----------



## Realityshark

UberXtraordinary said:


> The other night I had a passenger say to me at the end of the trip "are you all good?" I said to him everything is good, and then I drove off. Later I realize what was meant by the question, "is the tip included"? I wish I had said something different to him, something to help him to understand that the tip is NOT included. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to say to that question without seeming desperate for tips?
> 
> I always appreciate tips and I do not follow the standard policy of informing them that they don't have to tip. I simply say thank you very much, I appreciate that! And in that way I am not reinforcing the false idea that the tip is included. I see any tip I received as a windfall. I would never suggest that it is a requirement. But I do not want to discourage tipping in anyway. Any suggestions?


Try working into the conversation during your ride that the reason you like driving for Uber is because of all the tips your receive. Most passengers will open the door for you by asking "what's it like to drive" or "how long have you been driving" it's actually very easy to steer the conversation towards tips, especially after you get some practice.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

UberXtraordinary said:


> The other night I had a passenger say to me at the end of the trip "are you all good?" I said to him everything is good, and then I drove off. Later I realize what was meant by the question, "is the tip included"? I wish I had said something different to him, something to help him to understand that the tip is NOT included. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to say to that question without seeming desperate for tips?
> 
> I always appreciate tips and I do not follow the standard policy of informing them that they don't have to tip. I simply say thank you very much, I appreciate that! And in that way I am not reinforcing the false idea that the tip is included. I see any tip I received as a windfall. I would never suggest that it is a requirement. But I do not want to discourage tipping in anyway. Any suggestions?


I hated when they would do that! What am I supposed to say? "No, sit back down, and I'll school you on how I'm being ripped off. I'm sure you really want to know."

Maybe it should be handled via the Socratic method: "What do you mean by that question?" "Who is 'we'?" "What do you mean by your use of the word good?"

"How much did you just pay?"
"Do you feel a service was provided?"
"Even if I kept 100% of that fare, do you feel it was representative of the experience/service you received?"


----------



## Realityshark

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I hated when they would do that! What am I supposed to say? "No, sit back down, and I'll school you on how I'm being ripped off. I'm sure you really want to know."


I immediately lock the doors and wont let them out until they tip.


----------



## NightRider

Jook said:


> I did not give tax advice. Please quote the reference. I only asked if 10% of what Uber drivers were paying was going towards federal tax, not uncommon.
> 
> I was just about to recommend that drivers see a tax consultant if no estimated taxes are being made. This does not constitute tax advice and I am not required to post a disclaimer. Go complain to the AICPA.
> 
> I'm done here. It's a very antagonistic place and I found what I was looking for anyway.


@Jook: Thank you for at least making it a point to do some research and posting your questions here to get at the truth. As you no doubt have discovered, there are a lot of drivers that are very frustrated and angry with Uber's business practices. We have very few passengers that come to this forum, so I'm sure the bulk of the negative comments you're getting in response to your question is just you acting as a lightning rod. I actually do hope you'll let it roll off you and not take it personally, because I think having more passengers participate in the forums here would be a very good thing. If you're still here, please consider sticking around as I'm sure many of us drivers would welcome seeing more feedback from the passenger perspective.

@everyone, am I wrong in thinking we shouldn't be scaring away the few passengers that come to UP to educate themselves? If a passenger has made their way to this forum, they likely want to find out the truth. Shouldn't we take that as an opportunity to bring about change through civilized discussion? In the end, the hostility is not helpful to anyone.


----------



## gregthedriver

I think this particular passenger deserved what was said. He doesn't respect the quality of service, stiffed mad drivers, had a fake ass apology and thinks we're all uneducated shmucks that he wipes his ass because he's a cpa that can use a calculator. and would tip .50 cents in pennies if it was 20 percent of the fare.


----------



## NightRider

JaxBeachDriver said:


> In the passenger Uber app, click the little guy in the upper left hand corner -> About -> Legal -> Terms & Conditioms -> #4: Payment, last paragraph "This payment structure is intended to fully compensate the Third Party Provider for the services provided. Except with respect to taxicab transportation services requested through the Application, Uber does not designate any portion of your payment as a tip or gratuity to the Third Party Provider. Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is 'voluntary,' 'not required,' and/or 'included' in the payments you make for services provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts, beyond those described above, to the Third Party Provider. You understand and agree that, while you are free to provide additional payment as a gratuity to any Third Party Provider who provides you with services obtained through the Service, you are under no obligation to do so. Gratuities are voluntary. After you have received services obtained through the Service, you will have the opportunity to rate your experience and leave additional feedback about your Third Party Provider."
> 
> View attachment 3932


That right there is the absolute best way to communicate the situation to the passengers. Telling passengers to read the agreement shouldn't run afoul of Uber policies, and everything is spelled out right there regarding the tipping BS.


----------



## NightRider

gregthedriver said:


> I think this particular passenger deserved what was said. He doesn't respect the quality of service, stiffed mad drivers, had a fake ass apology and thinks we're all uneducated shmucks that he wipes his ass because he's a cpa that can use a calculator. and would tip .50 cents in pennies if it was 20 percent of the fare.


I didn't get any of that from his initial post. Granted, the conversation got a little shifty later on, but only after he was quickly thrown on the defensive. Did he really need to have a new one ripped open for coming here and asking the question? If that's the response passengers can expect to get here, not many will even bother trying to start a dialog on the subject. And please don't start attacking me, I'm not calling anyone out, just suggesting that we might do better welcoming passengers in and gently breaking them of Uber's bad training rather than telling them to GTFO.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

NightRider said:


> I didn't get any of that from his initial post. Granted, the conversation got a little shifty later on, but only after he was quickly thrown on the defensive. Did he really need to have a new one ripped open for coming here and asking the question? If that's the response passengers can expect to get here, not many will even bother trying to start a dialog on the subject. And please don't start attacking me, I'm not calling anyone out, just suggesting that we might do better welcoming passengers in and gently breaking them of Uber's bad training rather than telling them to GTFO.


This is a symptom of frustrated drivers being shit on by uber and a large number of shitty passengers who value Uber drivers less than they value pizza delivery drivers. Then drivers get told both by uber and its customers, "If it's not fair, quit."

It is really frustrating when passengers fall for Uber's lies and then get all up in arms with the drivers for telling the truth. It's all completely backwards! The passengers get pissed at the drivers for telling the truth, and defend the unfair and deceptive practices of a multiBILLION dollar corporation.

I've pointed out Uber's lies. When has a passenger ever said, "Damn, that's ****ed up! I had no idea. Now I'll start tipping."

They don't. They try to figure out the catch, as if drivers are the ones lying or misrepresenting something because, really, why the **** would anyone agree to the shit Uber does?

Really, the only recourse drivers have is to quit. Most passengers do not give a ****. Uber DOES NOT GIVE A ****. They will both find some ****s to give once drivers quit en masse.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Naturally I agree with both of the following posters. This passenger got EXACTLY what he deserved and it was my pleasure to help give it to him. BTW @NightRider you might want to save the kissing of passenger's asses for when you are driving the non-tipping entitled assholes in YOUR car and having to worry about more Fuber stars.



gregthedriver said:


> I think this particular passenger deserved what was said. He doesn't respect the quality of service, stiffed mad drivers, had a fake ass apology and thinks we're all uneducated shmucks that he wipes his ass because he's a cpa that can use a calculator. and would tip .50 cents in pennies if it was 20 percent of the fare.





JaxBeachDriver said:


> This is a symptom of frustrated drivers being shit on by uber and a large number of shitty passengers who value Uber drivers less than they value pizza delivery drivers. Then drivers get told both by uber and its customers, "If it's not fair, quit."
> 
> It is really frustrating when passengers fall for Uber's lies and then get all up in arms with the drivers for telling the truth. It's all completely backwards! The passengers get pissed at the drivers for telling the truth, and defend the unfair and deceptive practices of a multiBILLION dollar corporation.
> 
> I've pointed out Uber's lies. When has a passenger ever said, "Damn, that's ****ed up! I had no idea. Now I'll start tipping."
> 
> They don't. They try to figure out the catch, as if drivers are the ones lying or misrepresenting something because, really, why the **** would anyone agree to the shit Uber does?
> 
> Really, the only recourse drivers have is to quit. Most passengers do not give a ****. Uber DOES NOT GIVE A ****. They will both find some ****s to give once drivers quit en masse.


----------



## cybertec69

unter ling said:


> Its uber math, just like lower fares = more rides = more money.


More rides for uber, not the individual driver, anyone with half a brain could tell you this.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Too subtle.


Maybe so. No tips last night, still, it was a good night, lots of long fares criss crossing LA. Cool passengers.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

CityGirl said:


> Yes, but they are few and far between. Try also the Tip Easy app.


Their are hundreds of "tip easy - calculators" at the App Store. This is the one being referred to here:

http://www.tipeasy.com

Thanks again for the "tip"!


----------



## Actionjax

NightRider said:


> @Jook: Thank you for at least making it a point to do some research and posting your questions here to get at the truth. As you no doubt have discovered, there are a lot of drivers that are very frustrated and angry with Uber's business practices. We have very few passengers that come to this forum, so I'm sure the bulk of the negative comments you're getting in response to your question is just you acting as a lightning rod. I actually do hope you'll let it roll off you and not take it personally, because I think having more passengers participate in the forums here would be a very good thing. If you're still here, please consider sticking around as I'm sure many of us drivers would welcome seeing more feedback from the passenger perspective.
> 
> @everyone, am I wrong in thinking we shouldn't be scaring away the few passengers that come to UP to educate themselves? If a passenger has made their way to this forum, they likely want to find out the truth. Shouldn't we take that as an opportunity to bring about change through civilized discussion? In the end, the hostility is not helpful to anyone.


Completely support what you are saying here. Everyone try and put that Customer service hat on here when engaging riders who come to this forum. It's all good to give information to people. But understand they may have a different viewpoint. That should not make them a target to attacks on them or their character.

It doesn't help your cause by becoming that "dissatisfied driver" who spits in the face of Uber. Because opinions here are a small segment of what's happening out in the street.

Inform, educate and move on. It's up to them to process what you say and deem the information valid.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

JaxBeachDriver said:


> This is a symptom of frustrated drivers being shit on by uber and a large number of shitty passengers who value Uber drivers less than they value pizza delivery drivers. Then drivers get told both by uber and its customers, "If it's not fair, quit."
> 
> It is really frustrating when passengers fall for Uber's lies and then get all up in arms with the drivers for telling the truth. It's all completely backwards! The passengers get pissed at the drivers for telling the truth, and defend the unfair and deceptive practices of a multiBILLION dollar corporation.
> 
> I've pointed out Uber's lies. When has a passenger ever said, "Damn, that's ****ed up! I had no idea. Now I'll start tipping."
> 
> They don't. They try to figure out the catch, as if drivers are the ones lying or misrepresenting something because, really, why the **** would anyone agree to the shit Uber does?
> 
> Really, the only recourse drivers have is to quit. Most passengers do not give a ****. Uber DOES NOT GIVE A ****. They will both find some ****s to give once drivers quit en masse.


I actually had a passenger say that yesterday. And then dug out $10. On a $20 (well $15 or so for me! Lol) ride. But it was a pretty long ride and he actually wanted to know how the payments worked and what percentage we got and so on. So I gave him examples and he actually GOT IT. But he wasn't a self important asshole which seems to be what you get in the busy areas you have to work to make money. I just was online on the way home and he was using uber because his car was being repaired so I caught the ping unexpectedly. He was even going the same direction I was for a change. Past my house about 5 miles so nice trip in all especially since I was pretty much done and just online for the mileage write off.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Actionjax said:


> Inform, educate and move on. It's up to them to process what you say and deem the information valid.


Perhaps INSTEAD of continuing to act like the entitled assholes that they are these passengers might want to change the "tone" of their supposed research. On-the-other-hand .....maybe it's not a bad idea for these riders to know what quite a few of their drivers REALLY think of them and their cheap ass, weak excuse, non-tipping attitudes.


----------



## Actionjax

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Perhaps INSTEAD of continuing to act like the entitled assholes that they are these passengers might want to change the "tone" of their supposed research. On-the-other-hand .....maybe it's not a bad idea for these riders to know what quite a few of their drivers REALLY think of them and their cheap ass, weak excuse, non-tipping attitudes.


Hope that attitude doesn't follow you to the car. You may find that opinion leads to a negative customer experience and in the end the driver will ALWAYS loose.

And if anything you drive the customer to not modify the behavior. You get more flies with honey than vinegar.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

Actionjax said:


> Hope that attitude doesn't follow you to the car. You may find that opinion leads to a negative customer experience and in the end the driver will ALWAYS loose.


Thanks for your concern but my rating after MANY rides is north of 4.8. Like many other drivers....as the rates go down my concern over the "customer experience" also decreases. I'll leave that for you and Fuber to worry about.


----------



## Peaches

Jook said:


> I hope I'm not violating any rules, but as of now, I am only a passenger. I have thought about becoming a driver, hence my reason for joining the site.
> 
> Regarding tips. I admit, you folks probably hate me cuz I never tipped except if the driver did something special, like wait while I dropped off my dry cleaning. However, as has been stated here, Uber misleads its customers into thinking that you guys get a tip from the fare. After 6 months of riding, it's just come to my attention that you don't. I feel terrible that I never tipped.
> 
> But I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip. You collect most of the fare unlike other cabbies. I have heard that as an argument not to tip. Then again, the fares are considerably lower, so that sort of mitigates that side of the argument. Frankly, I don't care so much about saving money... I am thrilled that there is a service with decent cars and all the conveniences that Uber offers. Tipping would mitigate any savings, at least for how I use the service. The question is, what do you expect a passenger to tip? However, one thing I will not do is pay more than I do with local taxis.
> 
> I personally think it's despicable that Uber misleads its customers. At least Lyft is upfront and their payment system is geared towards leaving a tip. But ya know, Lyft is more expensive than Uber, at least in Jersey City, and with a tip, the fare comes out more than the stinking Jersey City cabs. I'd rather put up with the stinky cab for 15 minutes than pay more.
> 
> Again, I hope I'm not stepping on toes for being here. But I would like to do the right thing. That means that the driver will make a decent wage. I define that as at least as much as cabbie. Fyi, there is a forum in Jersey City where this is under discussion, jclist.


Seriously!! Any type of service to a customer deserves a tip regardless. According to Uber, you don't have to, but it would be nice because WE ARE delivering "a Service." If you go to a restaurant the gratuity is according to the state you live. Whether I go to the hairdresser, nail salon, or get my eyebrows done, I tip according to the service I receive. As an Uber Driver it really pisses me off when I pick a passenger from a fine dining restaurant (where I know they gave 12-15% tip) and then when I drop the passenger off all I get is a "thank you." Listen up - with all the lawsuits Uber has against them, their investors will eventually pull out. So enjoy taking Uber Drivers for granted while you can.


----------



## SCdave

Uber started with a pricing model where the Driver on the Uberx platform could actually make enough to want tips but not need them. At the same time part of the branding was a "cashless" payment transaction which we all understand; just a nice seamless, safe method, and also was an advantage over the cabbies who would often say "uh, sorry, the card machine is broken, only cash" (this is what I heard from friends who lived in San Francisco and took Cabs pre Uber so if you're a Cabbie somewhere else, sorry).

So "tip is included" was promoted by Uber which started the "No Tipping" trend and obviously was both illegal and a lie. Tipping was not included, Uber and no business can dictate not tipping or keep any portion of a tip, but again, this is how Uber branded tipping.

As a sidenote, Uber PR put out in the media how Drivers make $90,000 per year, $1,500 per week, and basically how great Driving for Uber was and how much money could be made. I'm not arguing that a small percentage did or if you took a short period that included New Years that this might be skewed towards a higher Gross, but we all know how little the average Driver makes after all expenses. Yes, part of the Uber branding since the Riders doesn't feel bad about not tipping - heck, the Driver makes good money and makes out like a bandit during surges, right?

Uber continued to transition the Uberx platform towards bare bones pricing model. Uber kept the cashless branding which still made sense for the App business model - I get it, I don't carry as much cash or sometimes none with me. "No Tipping" branding was barely modified due to the class action lawsuit of Uber taking Driver "Tips" and Riders were told " Tipping is not required....Being Uber means No Tipping...blah blah blah".

Uber continued transitioning the Uberx platform towards Public Transportation where many Uber Cities now do not have even a "Flag Drop" or in Uberdom "No Base Fee" and Minimum Fares that are lower then taking public transportation if you have 2-4 people in the Uberx vehicle. What Drivers now Net on many short routes is less then the Tip a Rider would pay a Pizza Delivery Guy, a Barber/Hair Stylist, or even the cost a Cappucino at a Coffee Shop. Yes , the Tip for the Pizza Delivery Guy is more than what an Uberx Driver Nets "before expenses" on a short Uber ride.

The Uber Rider who is the early adopter doesn't Tip because Uber Branded it that way. The Rider wants to have a cashless transaction. Both of these meet and both the Rider and Uber benefit; both happy campers.

So how to let the Rider who loves jumping in an Uber, getting to their destination, and jumping out without having to worry about using a credit card to pay (like a Taxi), or throwing a few bucks at the Driver (like a Taxi), and also who thinks they are cool since they "know" the "right" way to be "Uber Cool" (that is, you don't tip in an Uber) know that Tipping is not required but should be part of the Uber/TNC cost of getting from Point A to B?

Uber isn't going to add a Tip Button on the Uberx platform even though they already have that program written with UberTaxi and could add it to Uberx easily. They aren't the playing catchup Lyft or Sidecard so they don't have to add a feature Lyft has to make Uber a better platform to get more Drivers or Riders. Riders are not complaining in any significant percentage to add a Tipping Feature.

So what's to be done? How to change the branding and modify Rider habits? How to keep Riders happy with the "Cashless" transportation model but get more money/tips in the Drivers pocket?


----------



## NightRider

SCdave said:


> So what's to be done? How to change the branding and modify Rider habits? How to keep Riders happy with the "Cashless" transportation model but get more money/tips in the Drivers pocket?


Anything that Uber can do is going to require some amount of back-pedalling. Either they need to bump fares back up a bit, add tipping to the app or at the very least rid themselves of the "no tipping / tipping not necessary" language. The latter option could even be done gradually and spun by the marketing department any number of ways to make the pax feel like they've been tipping us all along and that nothing has changed, except it will have.

How about they add a tip feature to the app, and subsidize tipping by taking half of the 20% they take and paying that out to drivers for a short period of time before shifting the cost back to the pax? (right.. it was a thought...)


----------



## observer

SCdave said:


> Uber started with a pricing model where the Driver on the Uberx platform could actually make enough to want tips but not need them. At the same time part of the branding was a "cashless" payment transaction which we all understand; just a nice seamless, safe method, and also was an advantage over the cabbies who would often say "uh, sorry, the card machine is broken, only cash" (this is what I heard from friends who lived in San Francisco and took Cabs pre Uber so if you're a Cabbie somewhere else, sorry).
> 
> So "tip is included" was promoted by Uber which started the "No Tipping" trend and obviously was both illegal and a lie. Tipping was not included, Uber and no business can dictate not tipping or keep any portion of a tip, but again, this is how Uber branded tipping.
> 
> As a sidenote, Uber PR put out in the media how Drivers make $90,000 per year, $1,500 per week, and basically how great Driving for Uber was and how much money could be made. I'm not arguing that a small percentage did or if you took a short period that included New Years that this might be skewed towards a higher Gross, but we all know how little the average Driver makes after all expenses. Yes, part of the Uber branding since the Riders doesn't feel bad about not tipping - heck, the Driver makes good money and makes out like a bandit during surges, right?
> 
> Uber continued to transition the Uberx platform towards bare bones pricing model. Uber kept the cashless branding which still made sense for the App business model - I get it, I don't carry as much cash or sometimes none with me. "No Tipping" branding was barely modified due to the class action lawsuit of Uber taking Driver "Tips" and Riders were told " Tipping is not required....Being Uber means No Tipping...blah blah blah".
> 
> Uber continued transitioning the Uberx platform towards Public Transportation where many Uber Cities now do not have even a "Flag Drop" or in Uberdom "No Base Fee" and Minimum Fares that are lower then taking public transportation if you have 2-4 people in the Uberx vehicle. What Drivers now Net on many short routes is less then the Tip a Rider would pay a Pizza Delivery Guy, a Barber/Hair Stylist, or even the cost a Cappucino at a Coffee Shop. Yes , the Tip for the Pizza Delivery Guy is more than what an Uberx Driver Nets "before expenses" on a short Uber ride.
> 
> The Uber Rider who is the early adopter doesn't Tip because Uber Branded it that way. The Rider wants to have a cashless transaction. Both of these meet and both the Rider and Uber benefit; both happy campers.
> 
> So how to let the Rider who loves jumping in an Uber, getting to their destination, and jumping out without having to worry about using a credit card to pay (like a Taxi), or throwing a few bucks at the Driver (like a Taxi), and also who thinks they are cool since they "know" the "right" way to be "Uber Cool" (that is, you don't tip in an Uber) know that Tipping is not required but should be part of the Uber/TNC cost of getting from Point A to B?
> 
> Uber isn't going to add a Tip Button on the Uberx platform even though they already have that program written with UberTaxi and could add it to Uberx easily. They aren't the playing catchup Lyft or Sidecard so they don't have to add a feature Lyft has to make Uber a better platform to get more Drivers or Riders. Riders are not complaining in any significant percentage to add a Tipping Feature.
> 
> So what's to be done? How to change the branding and modify Rider habits? How to keep Riders happy with the "Cashless" transportation model but get more money/tips in the Drivers pocket?


The biggest reason Uber is cashless is this way Uber controls the money. They get paid right away, and don't have to rely on the driver forwarding the cash. It would be a nightmare, accounting for thousands of fares being deposited in hundreds of bank accounts daily, then reconciling payments to the right passenger and driver.


----------



## OCBob

Gemgirlla said:


> Than
> thanks for your comments. Welcome to the forum. You can post whatever you want. If it is considered off topic or controversial our lovely moderator in a police suit (and I mean that sincerely) will let you know.


Not going to quote that long post from the passenger but if someone just tipped a $1 then i would be grateful. Here is a lesson as a passenger. If the driver had to go farther or longer to get to you then your destination then you should tip him at least a $1. That $4 ride is $2.40. Waste of time in most instances.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

Realityshark said:


> Try working into the conversation during your ride that the reason you like driving for Uber is because of all the tips your receive. Most passengers will open the door for you by asking "what's it like to drive" or "how long have you been driving" it's actually very easy to steer the conversation towards tips, especially after you get some practice.


Good suggestions, but I probably will never tell them "I love driving because of all the tips I receive". What I might say something like, "I drive because I enjoy it. It's not my primary gig. Other drivers are all in. Many of them are angry at the confusion surrounding fare pricing and tipping policies". This might get them thinking about tipping while letting them off the hook for actually leaving tip at that time. Nevertheless, it informs them that tipping is an issue on driver's minds. With that, the onus is on them. I might not get a tip on that trip, but maybe you will when you pick them up next time. I never want to make a passenger feel pressured or uncomfortable. But handling it this way could get them to think more deeply about the issue. Driving plus helps. If I were still making X fares, I might feel differently.


----------



## John Anderson

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


Good thing you're a corpsman. When these guarantees go away, a bunch of asses will need stitching.


----------



## BlkGeep

The quoted text that starts this whole thread is for Uber Taxi. Not X. BTW.


----------



## newsboy559

Jook said:


> I hope I'm not violating any rules, but as of now, I am only a passenger. I have thought about becoming a driver, hence my reason for joining the site.
> 
> Regarding tips. I admit, you folks probably hate me cuz I never tipped except if the driver did something special, like wait while I dropped off my dry cleaning. However, as has been stated here, Uber misleads its customers into thinking that you guys get a tip from the fare. After 6 months of riding, it's just come to my attention that you don't. I feel terrible that I never tipped.
> 
> But I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip. You collect most of the fare unlike other cabbies. I have heard that as an argument not to tip. Then again, the fares are considerably lower, so that sort of mitigates that side of the argument. Frankly, I don't care so much about saving money... I am thrilled that there is a service with decent cars and all the conveniences that Uber offers. Tipping would mitigate any savings, at least for how I use the service. The question is, what do you expect a passenger to tip? However, one thing I will not do is pay more than I do with local taxis.
> 
> I personally think it's despicable that Uber misleads its customers. At least Lyft is upfront and their payment system is geared towards leaving a tip. But ya know, Lyft is more expensive than Uber, at least in Jersey City, and with a tip, the fare comes out more than the stinking Jersey City cabs. I'd rather put up with the stinky cab for 15 minutes than pay more.
> 
> Again, I hope I'm not stepping on toes for being here. But I would like to do the right thing. That means that the driver will make a decent wage. I define that as at least as much as cabbie. Fyi, there is a forum in Jersey City where this is under discussion, jclist.


Did you write in to Uber about your feelings as a rider? If not, please do.


----------



## newsboy559

UberXtraordinary said:


> The other night I had a passenger say to me at the end of the trip "are you all good?" I said to him everything is good, and then I drove off. Later I realize what was meant by the question, "is the tip included"? I wish I had said something different to him, something to help him to understand that the tip is NOT included. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to say to that question without seeming desperate for tips?
> 
> I always appreciate tips and I do not follow the standard policy of informing them that they don't have to tip. I simply say thank you very much, I appreciate that! And in that way I am not reinforcing the false idea that the tip is included. I see any tip I received as a windfall. I would never suggest that it is a requirement. But I do not want to discourage tipping in anyway. Any suggestions?


When I first started driving for Uber, I learned this the hard way, too. Many, many people end the ride with... "Are we good?" I quickly learned that I had to specifically ask the rider what he meant by "Are we good?" Every single one of them then would specifically mention a tip. They brought it up... not me. I explain that the fare is paid for with their credit card they entered when they signed up on the app, but that a gratuity is not included. Then the discussion begins "Well, Uber told me it was included." Well, sorry. Uber lied to you. I also always have section four of Uber's terms of service handy to give to the rider to show them proof that Uber does not designate any portion of the fare as a gratuity, except for taxi services.


----------



## newsboy559

UberXtraordinary said:


> Fivers are terrific! Teners even better! Even so, I would happily recieve one's as well.
> 
> Are any of you drivers using "square" to complete transactions via credit card?


Yes, I started out using Square, but there is a downfall to using Square, as well. Just like nobody reads the fine print with Uber's terms of service, neither does anybody read Square's terms of service. The fact of the matter is, when you begin accepting credit card payments with VISA, Mastercard, whatever it may be... you are liable for up to $500,000 if, for some reason, someone sues you for fraud and wins. Therefore, I incorporated my business as an LLC and began using Bank of America merchant services. The swipe fee is a bit cheaper than Square, too.


----------



## newsboy559

JaxBeachDriver said:


> In the passenger Uber app, click the little guy in the upper left hand corner -> About -> Legal -> Terms & Conditions -> #4: Payment, last paragraph "This payment structure is intended to fully compensate the Third Party Provider for the services provided. Except with respect to taxicab transportation services requested through the Application, Uber does not designate any portion of your payment as a tip or gratuity to the Third Party Provider. Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is 'voluntary,' 'not required,' and/or 'included' in the payments you make for services provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts, beyond those described above, to the Third Party Provider. You understand and agree that, while you are free to provide additional payment as a gratuity to any Third Party Provider who provides you with services obtained through the Service, you are under no obligation to do so. Gratuities are voluntary. After you have received services obtained through the Service, you will have the opportunity to rate your experience and leave additional feedback about your Third Party Provider."
> 
> View attachment 3932


And even that has now changed since people began mass spreading Uber's own terms of service. It used to end at the part that says "Gratuities are voluntary." They have since added the part about unwelcome pressure.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Cost myself a 5 dollar tip yesterday on a new passenger airport ride when I could not make change for a $20.00. I have not made it a daily priority to be able to make change as one of our esteemed taxi drivers have mentioned. As tips are so infrequent. Never again. But I did let him know it was appreciatd and tip your next Driver. He said what we hear often "but I'll give you a high rating". Yes he did get the ratings rant and education.


----------



## NightRider

UberXtraordinary said:


> Good suggestions, but I probably will never tell them "I love driving because of all the tips I receive". What I might say something like, "I drive because I enjoy it. It's not my primary gig. Other drivers are all in. Many of them are angry at the confusion surrounding fare pricing and tipping policies". This might get them thinking about tipping while letting them off the hook for actually leaving tip at that time. Nevertheless, it informs them that tipping is an issue on driver's minds. With that, the onus is on them. I might not get a tip on that trip, but maybe you will when you pick them up next time. I never want to make a passenger feel pressured or uncomfortable. But handling it this way could get them to think more deeply about the issue. Driving plus helps. If I were still making X fares, I might feel differently.


I like this approach and might work it into my routine to see how it flies.


----------



## frndthDuvel

New riders tonight. Told them about the class action suit and ratings, where less than a 5 means calling for deactivation. Got a 2 dollar tip! Better than nothing and I told him it was appreciated anyway. I believe he will always tip going forward. Nice folks. Too bad it took 20 minutes to get to them as I was chasing the guarantee and could not cancel. They were probably 4 miles from me when they pinged. OH? There is San Diego Bay between me and them? ! Chasing the guarantee strikes again! LOL


----------



## IbedrivinUX

frndthDuvel said:


> New riders tonight. Told them about the class action suit and ratings, where less than a 5 means calling for deactivation. Got a 2 dollar tip! Better than nothing and I told him it was appreciated anyway. I believe he will always tip going forward. Nice folks. Too bad it took 20 minutes to get to them as I was chasing the guarantee and could not cancel. They were probably 4 miles from me when they pinged. OH? There is San Diego Bay between me and them? ! Chasing the guarantee strikes again! LOL


The SD Bay I deal with that often too! Darn it!.


----------



## frndthDuvel

IbedrivinUX said:


> The SD Bay I deal with that often too! Darn it!.


At least there was very little traffic going through IB and going up the strand. They were at Lowes, headed downtown. 40 minutes total, 25-30 miles total? 15.11 fare. WTF? But not accepting that PING would have cost me the 100 dollar in guarantee I hope I receive. So there is value for UBER with these guarantees, I believe they may be near breaking even or even exceeding income just because so many part timers are out there trying for them, and losing them. But it also provides coverage in areas perhaps not served all the time. Like these folks tonight. The more folks can depend on UBER the better. Baiting folks to be out there and accept all PINGS is good for UBER. Failure in getting the guarantee pays those who do get it. Guarantees might be out there a tad longer than many of us believe.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

*Hey , Toronto *why do I want more flies&#8230;?

Tips Are never required, that's why they're called Tips

I wish somebody on p 1 had the guts to tell vicious attack posters to shut up already. all this "please be nice to a new poster because it's a good thing to do " shit drives me up the wall

" I love driving for Uber, the people are nice and the tips are great "memorise it.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Sacto Burbs said:


> *Hey , Toronto *why do I want more flies&#8230;?
> 
> Tips Are never required, that's why they're called Tips
> 
> I wish somebody on p 1 had the guts to tell vicious attack posters to shut up already. all this "please be nice to a new poster because it's a good thing to do " shit drives me up the wall
> 
> " I love driving for Uber, the people are nice and the tips are great "memorise it.


The first time UBER folks, well on their own account anyway were from Sactown. I am hoping he only tipped 2 bucks because he was not prepared to tip. But I am sure he wll not be rating you a 4 thinking that is ok.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Huh?


----------



## jackstraww

corpsman2012 said:


> We make scraps, damn near nothing, and uber tells passengers that the tip is factored in?! Someone PLEASE tell me how in the hell they figure that math?!


You misunderstand- -they mean its factored into _"thier profit"_-(its that new math.it will confuse you every time)


----------



## jackstraww

Former Yellow Driver said:


> What?!!!! Read existing posts before starting a new one? Whatever for? When you need to vent....you need to vent NOW! Who has time for all that reading/searching stuff?


Reading? Research- -Haha,,I dont think so..this is only an uber thread not an amendment to the constitution -BTW- Yellow...love that sig


----------



## Raquel

@Jook is an entitled pos..who's only purpose for coming here was to let us know that he is "better" than us..as he is a hotshot cpa.. and we're beneath him as measly "uber" drivers. Also he wanted to justify to himself why he is not a scumbag for not tipping with his fancy mathematical formulas and his non sequitors..


----------



## SCdave

I've been thinking about having some $1 bills handy. When I get a $4 Minimum Fare (had so many of these recently), I'll give the $1 bill to the PAX and say, "Hey, here's $1, please tip your Uber Driver on the way home, you're Driver will really appreciate it".

Or I maybe buy a few $1 California Lottery Scratchers and do the same routine.

Since we're still getting the Hourly Guarantee in my area, probably best time to try this out.

If you're in LA/OC this week and get a $1 Scratcher from a PAX, say thanks


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

SCdave said:


> I've been thinking about having some $1 bills handy. When I get a $4 Minimum Fare (had so many of these recently), I'll give the $1 bill to the PAX and say, "Hey, here's $1, please tip your Uber Driver on the way home, you're Driver will really appreciate it". Or I maybe buy a few $1 California Lottery Scratchers and do the same routine. Since we're still getting the Hourly Guarantee in my area, probably best time to try this out.If you're in LA/OC this week and get a $1 Scratcher from a PAX, say thanks


You - Are - Out - Of - Your - Mind!


----------



## Txchick

Jook said:


> The 28% that you pay Uber includes federal tax, right? I think someone told me it;s 10%. So that money is not really going to Uber. If I recall, fleet taxis when I drove did not withhold any taxes. In either case, they had to be paid one way or the other.
> 
> I understand where both of you are coming from. For the record, I drove a medallion taxi in NYC in the early 70s while I was in school, so I understand how difficult the job is. Fleets dominated the market and the driver got 49% or 51%, I forget which, plus paid for tolls and gas. I used to make about $100 a shift which was ok at the time, especially for a college kid. My dad was a union person and I've worked in restaurants for the past 20+ years, so I sympathize with the tipped sector of society and consider myself generous. My standard tip to yellow taxis in NYC has been, for many years, 20% and I round up any change with a minimum tip of $2. For example, a $16 fare would warrant a $4 tip (20% of 16 = 3.20 and round up to $4). Now with the credit card machines, it's easy just to leave a percentage and not worry about the change, and I generally leave 25%. Frankly, I leave less to Jersey City drivers because many of them seem to do everything in their power to make you want to kill them.
> 
> Uber has gotten people to believe that riding with Uber is a better experience in a number of ways, including less costly, which includes not leaving a tip. So, perhaps it's my mindset needs to change. I think that's how most people perceive Uber to work due to the way they promote the service. My plan at the moment is to continue to use Uber and Lyft when they are not more expensive than local taxis.
> 
> If I'm just going on a 10 minute ride from the train station to my house, the stinky local cab with the smelly driver is tolerable. There's no wait whereas sometimes there's up to a 15 minute wait for Uber. The wait is even longer for Lyft as it seems they are not nearly as popular in these parts. I am not rich so saving money AND time is more important to me than comfort for such a short period. I have to think about longer rides. One thing for sure is that I will no longer use Uber or Lyft without tipping.
> 
> I'm still not sure of the amount to tip and I would love to hear HONEST and down-to-earth feedback. I've had several Uber drivers tell me they make $1500-$2000 per week. That could be fantasy, I don't know. But if it's true, it's far more than any other type of taxi driver makes. So, why should I stick with the same tipping formula of nearly 25%? What do you consider a fair tip (considering all of your expenses), one that will bring you the same or better wages than other taxi drivers? Bear in mind that it is less likely that I will use Uber/Lyft if the customary tip came out to more than 20% and I'm sure I'm not alone.


No you are responsible for all your taxes with Uber they withold nothing


----------



## NightRider

I think it's safe to say that user @Jook has left the building. This was the only thread he or she posted in on UP.net and they have not been back since the day of the original posting.

For anyone interested in engaging passengers directly, @Jook was nice enough to mention the origin of his investigation of the subject. It can be found at 
http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=370769

Anything that you would have said to Jook can be taken there.. it's a good little discussion and window into the pax mindset, and could use a little UP.net flavor for anyone willing to take a few minutes to register. I already put in my 2 cents there, which in my current state of exhaustion was probably worth a fraction of a penny.


----------



## Sydney Uber

SCdave said:


> I've been thinking about having some $1 bills handy. When I get a $4 Minimum Fare (had so many of these recently), I'll give the $1 bill to the PAX and say, "Hey, here's $1, please tip your Uber Driver on the way home, you're Driver will really appreciate it".
> 
> Or I maybe buy a few $1 California Lottery Scratchers and do the same routine.
> 
> Since we're still getting the Hourly Guarantee in my area, probably best time to try this out.
> 
> If you're in LA/OC this week and get a $1 Scratcher from a PAX, say thanks


Well! @SCdave has just opened a new category for the "nicest" idea posted

Your suggestion Dave, is breathtakingly beautiful! A Genuinely nice act of kindness with the hope of educating riders for the benefit of the next driver.

Dave wins the prize! Nicest post of the year!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Sydney Uber said:


> Dave wins the prize! Nicest post of the year!


Too bad that, as the saying goes, "_nice guys finish last_"

It's really stunning that anyone would actually go out of their way to take on any additional expense in doing this work.

The two most frequent reasons PAX give me for why they use and love Uber is that *a) it's far less expensive than a cab* and *b) it's cashless (no cash tipping required)*.

If anyone thinks that drivers are going to change either of those - they're nuts. PAX already think we're lying to them when we tell them that we receive no tip compensation from Uber. They've received emails from Uber telling them that no tip is required ("it's cashless") AND they've read the articles from last year saying that driver's earn $1,500 - $2,500 a week AND frankly, most PAX are simply CHEAP and they use those first two reasons to justify not tipping. Uber not only does nothing to dispel PAX perceptions - Uber is responsible for them. And *NOTHING a driver can do will change that*.


----------



## jackstraww

Gd Damnit!!!!!!!!!
2 morning trips to Newark AirPort -no tips-- Jeeeezess I deserve a tip for just going to Newark!!!!!!


----------



## SCdave

Sydney Uber said:


> Well! @SCdave has just opened a new category for the "nicest" idea posted
> 
> Your suggestion Dave, is breathtakingly beautiful! A Genuinely nice act of kindness with the hope of educating riders for the benefit of the next driver.
> 
> Dave wins the prize! Nicest post of the year!


Hey, what I got out of this is that I am both "Nice" and "Stupid". I am a nice guy and what was the 2nd question?

The "give the PAX at $1" "Anti-Uber" Branding" and "Driver PR" Promotion might not fly for most drivers, well like 99.9%.

So how about this one. I have now created a new currency. It is called the "TNC Dollar (work in progress). It can be transferred either by Paper or possibly electronically.

So as an alternative to handing out the $1 bill or the $1 Lottery Scratcher, you can print up the TNC Dollar on a business card , include a message about Tipping (Driver PR, yada yada), and give it to your PAX to pass to the Driver on his way home.

Say, like "Please give this to your next Driver". PAX: "What is it". Driver: " It's like a TIP so only use it when a TIP would have been appropriate" PAX: "Oh...okay (sound of brain in discord)". Driver: "Hey, thanks for letting me drive you".

This doesn't pressure the PAX. Will, a wee bit but it's kind of passive aggressive. So what should the TNC $1 look like and what should the message on the back say?

_* Taking my car in for transmission like thunking sound during low speed gear changes so either I'm back on the road quickly or may have awhile to think about the "TNC $1" (insert sound of driver sigh here)._


----------



## Sydney Uber

SCdave said:


> Hey, what I got out of this is that I am both "Nice" and "Stupid". I am a nice guy and what was the 2nd question?
> 
> The "give the PAX at $1" "Anti-Uber" Branding" and "Driver PR" Promotion might not fly for most drivers, well like 99.9%.
> 
> So how about this one. I have now created a new currency. It is called the "TNC Dollar (work in progress). It can be transferred either by Paper or possibly electronically.
> 
> So as an alternative to handing out the $1 bill or the $1 Lottery Scratcher, you can print up the TNC Dollar on a business card , include a message about Tipping (Driver PR, yada yada), and give it to your PAX to pass to the Driver on his way home.
> 
> Say, like "Please give this to your next Driver". PAX: "What is it". Driver: " It's like a TIP so only use it when a TIP would have been appropriate" PAX: "Oh...okay (sound of brain in discord)". Driver: "Hey, thanks for letting me drive you".
> 
> This doesn't pressure the PAX. Will, a wee bit but it's kind of passive aggressive. So what should the TNC $1 look like and what should the message on the back say?
> 
> _* Taking my car in for transmission like thunking sound during low speed gear changes so either I'm back on the road quickly or may have awhile to think about the "TNC $1" (insert sound of driver sigh here)._


In this part of the personal transport business that you have found yourself in, you are trying to influence riders to change a culture that is based on UBER's vile messages.

"No need to tip" (don't even consider rewarding good service)

"The tip is included" (no need to think about it)

"Rideshare Is expensive because of the driver" why pay more?

"Its a cashless system" don't even carry a buck - its inconvenient


----------



## Sydney Uber

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Too bad that, as the saying goes, "_nice guys finish last_"
> 
> It's really stunning that anyone would actually go out of their way to take on any additional expense in doing this work.
> 
> The two most frequent reasons PAX give me for why they use and love Uber is that *a) it's far less expensive than a cab* and *b) it's cashless (no cash tipping required)*.
> 
> If anyone thinks that drivers are going to change either of those - they're nuts. PAX already think we're lying to them when we tell them that we receive no tip compensation from Uber. They've received emails from Uber telling them that no tip is required ("it's cashless") AND they've read the articles from last year saying that driver's earn $1,500 - $2,500 a week AND frankly, most PAX are simply CHEAP and they use those first two reasons to justify not tipping. Uber not only does nothing to dispel PAX perceptions - Uber is responsible for them. And *NOTHING a driver can do will change that*.


Drivers are trying to change this heartless culture based on Uber deception. A little persistence, a few more mainstream news items that are leaking out about UBER'S vile treatment of its "partners", and who knows?

That's how culture is changed, Get the message across!


----------



## pengduck

jackstraww said:


> You misunderstand- -they mean its factored into _"thier profit"_-(its that new math.it will confuse you every time)


What PROFIT. You did mean LOSSES!


----------



## SCdave

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Too bad that, as the saying goes, "_nice guys finish last_"
> 
> It's really stunning that anyone would actually go out of their way to take on any additional expense in doing this work.
> 
> The two most frequent reasons PAX give me for why they use and love Uber is that *a) it's far less expensive than a cab* and *b) it's cashless (no cash tipping required)*.
> 
> If anyone thinks that drivers are going to change either of those - they're nuts. PAX already think we're lying to them when we tell them that we receive no tip compensation from Uber. They've received emails from Uber telling them that no tip is required ("it's cashless") AND they've read the articles from last year saying that driver's earn $1,500 - $2,500 a week AND frankly, most PAX are simply CHEAP and they use those first two reasons to justify not tipping. Uber not only does nothing to dispel PAX perceptions - Uber is responsible for them. And *NOTHING a driver can do will change that*.


Round and about 2010, if we had a discussion about the Taxi Cab business in the USA and how some stupid start-ups in San Francisco were doing something called...wait, what did they call it then...oh yes, this Rideshare business. What would we have said about the future of rideshare? That there was no way this could threaten the Taxi business.

Many have quoted it or some version - *"Change is the only constant in life." *Something changing is a given. Whether we see the change is only relevant to the time frame we choose to view life from. I see Driver's changing the way Riders and the general public few TNCs.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Sydney Uber said:


> Drivers are trying to change this heartless culture based on Uber deception. A little persistence, a few more mainstream news items that are leaking out about UBER'S vile treatment of its "partners", and who knows?
> That's how culture is changed, Get the message across!


Just don't try to get that message across with your PAX - they don't want to hear it - and will penalize you through your rating.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Just don't try to get that message across with your PAX - they don't want to hear it - and will penalize you through your rating.


Subtle, non-confrontational prods in the right direction help.

The "TAG" (Tips Are Great) campaign is a clever response to a common rider question. It informs riders that tipping is a common consideration for good service. Shows them how you value the acknowledgement that a tip provides as much as the money.

End the ride with a sincere "thank you" for riding with you and I'm sure you will see tips improve, without affecting your rating.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Sydney Uber said:


> The "TAG" (Tips Are Great) campaign is a clever response to a common rider question. It informs riders that tipping is a common consideration for good service. Shows them how you value the acknowledgement that a tip provides as much as the money.


In my experience, your advice is misguided. Passengers do not think that drivers have any knowledge at all about how Uber works... they are getting emails directly from Uber telling them that the system is designed to be cashless (ie: no cash tip is required). The implication is that tips are included and passed on to drivers - and to make matters worse, they remember when they set-up their account there was *something* about setting a tip amount in the app - it doesn't matter that it was for Uber Taxi, because they have no idea what Uber Taxi is - and assume that Uber is tipping you x%.

For every ten times you talk about tipping, you get a tip once, and 9 others simply ignore you and then rate you lower than 5*s.

I understand you're looking at the glass as half-full and that PAX just need a little nudge. I hope you're right. But I also have enough trips under my belt to know that's just not the case. People use Uber to save money - not to spend more on tips and they will spend as little as they have to to use Uber (especially since they're reading in the news how much money Uber is making - they think that $40 billion valuation is earnings - and how so many drivers are making thousands each month. Hell, I had a 15 year old kid PAX today tell me that drivers are telling him how much money they are making, and he even suggested that just buying a $2,500 junker to use for driving for Uber proved his point).


----------



## NightRider

jackstraww said:


> Gd Damnit!!!!!!!!!
> 2 morning trips to Newark AirPort -no tips-- Jeeeezess I deserve a tip for just going to Newark!!!!!!


As someone born and raised in Irvington, I whole-heartedly agree! (Actually, I hear it's gotten so much worse than Newark these days..)


----------



## jackstraww

NightRider said:


> As someone born and raised in Irvington, I whole-heartedly agree! (Actually, I hear it's gotten so much worse than Newark these days..)


Yeah ,and East Orange is the worst of all


----------



## NightRider

jackstraww said:


> Yeah ,and East Orange is the worst of all


That's truly frightening.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Michael - Cleveland said:


> In my experience, your advice is misguided. Passengers do not think that drivers have any knowledge at all about how Uber works... they are getting emails directly from Uber telling them that the system is designed to be cashless (ie: no cash tip is required). The implication is that tips are included and passed on to drivers - and to make matters worse, they remember when they set-up their account there was *something* about setting a tip amount in the app - it doesn't matter that it was for Uber Taxi, because they have no idea what Uber Taxi is - and assume that Uber is tipping you x%.
> 
> For every ten times you talk about tipping, you get a tip once, and 9 others simply ignore you and then rate you lower than 5*s.
> 
> I understand you're looking at the glass as half-full and that PAX just need a little nudge. I hope you're right. But I also have enough trips under my belt to know that's just not the case. People use Uber to save money - not to spend more on tips and they will spend as little as they have to to use Uber (especially since they're reading in the news how much money Uber is making - they think that $40 billion valuation is earnings - and how so many drivers are making thousands each month. Hell, I had a 15 year old kid PAX today tell me that drivers are telling him how much money they are making, and he even suggested that just buying a $2,500 junker to use for driving for Uber proved his point).


Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.

It's my hope and my experience that a subtle, well-worded nudge towards a better understanding of a driver's lot, then things may change.

I agree with you, the messages and marketing that Uber pushes out is incredibly powerful, it cuts through to riders on many levels. It satisfies a rider's desire to have a simple, convenient, quick transaction.

UBER'S strategy is to dehumanise the transport transaction to "warm" riders to the concept of driverless cars. That has been telegraphed by the CEO, and a rating system which accommodates some Kid's drunken power trip in sacking a driver with a 1 star rating. No review, no question, a rider can knowingly or unknowingly end a driver's earnings on a $5 fare. That asserts how low on the food chain a driver is. That suits UBER.

"TAG" is an interesting counter-attack to UBER's devaluation of driver's earnings and position. Using subtle reverse psychology and most importantly, the personally delivered message, this may get traction and start to trump UBER's marketing machine.

There is a lot of bad press starting to come out about ÜBER, in the end it will be a battle of credibility as to who a rider will believe (if they so wish to be bothered at all).


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Sydney Uber said:


> Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> It's my hope and my experience that a subtle, well-worded nudge towards a better understanding of a driver's lot, then things may change. There is a lot of bad press starting to come out about ÜBER, in the end it will be a battle of credibility as to who a rider will believe (if they so wish to be bothered at all).


there is ZERO benefit to a passenger to believe anything a driver says about tipping. There is no benefit to a passenger reacting positively to a tag campaign. People will always vote with their wallet in what they perceive to be is in their own best interest.


----------



## SCdave

Michael - Cleveland said:


> there is ZERO benefit to a passenger to believe anything a driver says about tipping. There is no benefit to a passenger reacting positively to a tag campaign. People will always vote with their wallet in what they perceive to be is in their own best interest.


Decisions are emotion based. Anything can be changed. Anything.


----------



## RideshareGuru

UrbanFisherman said:


> Where ya find that? Yeah I've heard that it's factored in, but how do they explain it when they cut the fares? So they cut our tips with the fares? Or is the fare the tip? Whatever the case, here in Atlanta, we get 75 cents per mile after they take their 20% out.  Imagine that. Imagine the new hires, driving around, burning up gas desperately chasing fares. After you factor in gas and the all the snacks and energy drinks you consume while waiting for the $5 ride, is it really 75 cents a mile? Or are you working for free. Thank uber for those winter guarantees


You forgot the big one: dead miles.


----------



## OCBob

Tried TAG a few times and nothing. In fact, I got two tips when I couldn't even bring it up. I am at the reality that these riders either think we get an actual tip from their crummy fare or they are the cheapest tippers on the planet (this side of Australia).


----------



## RideshareGuru

Jook said:


> I hope I'm not violating any rules, but as of now, I am only a passenger. I have thought about becoming a driver, hence my reason for joining the site.
> 
> Regarding tips. I admit, you folks probably hate me cuz I never tipped except if the driver did something special, like wait while I dropped off my dry cleaning. However, as has been stated here, Uber misleads its customers into thinking that you guys get a tip from the fare. After 6 months of riding, it's just come to my attention that you don't. I feel terrible that I never tipped.
> 
> But I'd like to ask some questions so I can decide on an appropriate amount to tip. You collect most of the fare unlike other cabbies. I have heard that as an argument not to tip. Then again, the fares are considerably lower, so that sort of mitigates that side of the argument. Frankly, I don't care so much about saving money... I am thrilled that there is a service with decent cars and all the conveniences that Uber offers. Tipping would mitigate any savings, at least for how I use the service. The question is, what do you expect a passenger to tip? However, one thing I will not do is pay more than I do with local taxis.
> 
> I personally think it's despicable that Uber misleads its customers. At least Lyft is upfront and their payment system is geared towards leaving a tip. But ya know, Lyft is more expensive than Uber, at least in Jersey City, and with a tip, the fare comes out more than the stinking Jersey City cabs. I'd rather put up with the stinky cab for 15 minutes than pay more.
> 
> Again, I hope I'm not stepping on toes for being here. But I would like to do the right thing. That means that the driver will make a decent wage. I define that as at least as much as cabbie. Fyi, there is a forum in Jersey City where this is under discussion, jclist.


Here's the thing, rates are different in different markets. Most markets are now below $1/mile, which is less than half of what cab fare is. Statistics show that 80% of riders tip their cabbies. Therefore, you can safely tip away and still save on what you would have spent on cab fare. As far as the driver making most of the fare, well, Uber can no longer claim that. In Nashville, for example, the minimum fare is now $2. Uber takes the 1st dollar as their "safe rides fee", then they take another 20% for commission, so the driver in that case would only get 40% of the $2 fare, or $0.80, while Uber gets $1.20. Obviously, the higher the fare is, the more the driver gets, percentage wise, but the fact is that it costs about $0.50/mile to operate your average vehicle. So, whatever the mileage rate is minus Uber's 20% minus $0.50/mile is what the driver actually pockets. It is pretty paltry. Cab drivers, on the other hand usually don't own their cab, they just pay gas and a weekly lease payment. So, really, they basically pay a flat rate to the cab company, the more they drive, the more they truly earn, and the fares themselves are much higher to begin with. My recommendation would be on short rides, tip $1 or $2, it will be greatly appreciated. On rides above $10, tip $5. On surge rides above 2x, no tip is really necessary since you're basically paying cab rates anyway, but as always, anything is appreciated.


----------



## uber_sea

OCBob said:


> Tried TAG a few times and nothing. In fact, I got two tips when I couldn't even bring it up. I am at the reality that these riders either think we get an actual tip from their crummy fare or they are the cheapest tippers on the planet (this side of Australia).


I only TAG when pax asked me how do I like driving for uber. I don't purposely try to work it in the conversation.
If a pax tried to change subject to non uber related most likely 0 tip, if they keep on asking uber related questions most likely there's a tip at the end.

1 out of 3 is about where I'm at.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Michael - Cleveland said:


> there is ZERO benefit to a passenger to believe anything a driver says about tipping. There is no benefit to a passenger reacting positively to a tag campaign. People will always vote with their wallet in what they perceive to be is in their own best interest.


Michael, I'm not arguing the point you make. I know that you are right, Uber knows you are right. Uber bases one of its major growth strategies on everything that you say.

But Uber and you have forgotten the percentage of riders that do have a conscience and considers the person beside them and their situation. Uber and you have forgotten the percentage of riders with enquiring minds, willing to engage with drivers and listen to a driver's take on the UBER experience.

There are some riders who do try and spend their money with ethical company's. When these good folk do learn more about Uber's unconscionable activities, they will feel dirty and misled. They will make their own changes to satisfy their personal values, and not serve the values of a company totally bereft of good conscience and concern for it's workforce.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Sydney Uber said:


> But Uber and you have forgotten the percentage of riders that do have a conscience and considers the person beside them and their situation. Uber and you have forgotten the percentage of riders with enquiring minds, willing to engage with drivers and listen to a driver's take on the UBER experience.


Hey Sydney - no offense intended (in fact I admire you for your optimism) - but you're either under 30 years old, or have lived your entire life in a suburban bubble. _"the percentage of riders that do have a conscience and considers the person beside them and their situation"_ is not forgotten by me and since Uber deals only in empirical data (not rose-colored glasses 'visions' of a lovely society) you can be sure Uber know that the population of caring, concerned citizenry is absolutely insignificant to their business.


----------



## RideshareGuru

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Hey Sydney - no offense intended (in fact I admire you for your optimism) - but you're either under 30 years old, or have lived your entire life in a suburban bubble. _"the percentage of riders that do have a conscience and considers the person beside them and their situation"_ is not forgotten by me and since Uber deals only in empirical data (not rose-colored glasses 'visions' of a lovely society) you can be sure Uber know that the population of caring, concerned citizenry is absolutely insignificant to their business.


Actually Michael, there is some interesting data that contradicts your assertions. Notice that in this latest round of rate cuts that Lyft didn't follow Uber's lead in all markets? Thankfully in my market, they left rates alone. The result? Lower demand on Lyft, sure, but all of the cheap assholes went to Uber, and the pax that are left are of much higher quality, tips are much more frequent now on Lyft, even with rates that are about 33% higher than Uber's rates. People also still take cabs and tip as opposed to taking Uber. Uber just captures the cheap asshole segment of the market, which is sizeable.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

RideshareGuru said:


> Actually Mchael, there is some interesting data that contradicts your assertions. Notice that in this latest round of rate cuts that Lyft didn't follow Uber's lead in all markets? Thankfully in my market, they left rates alone. The result? Lower demand on Lyft, sure, but all of the cheap assholes went to Uber, and the pax that are left are of much higher quality, tips are much more frequent now on Lyft, even with rates that are about 33% higher than Uber's rates. People also still take cabs and tip as opposed to taking Uber. Uber just captures the cheap asshole segment of the market, which is sizeable.


The effect of lower Uber fares in my market has had no effect on LYFT - and the vast majority of my LYFT pax are the same "I've got a credit/coupon" a-holes that I get from the newbies on Uber. Anecdotes are fun and interesting, but not relevant in statistical analysis.


----------



## RideshareGuru

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The effect of lower Uber fares in my market has had no effect on LYFT - and the vast majority of my LYFT pax are the same "I've got a credit/coupon" a-holes that I get from the newbies on Uber. Anecdotes are fun and interesting, but not relevant in statistical analysis.


My tips are definitely up. Maybe people just don't like you, lol.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

I have no problem with getting tips on LYFT. That's not the problem or the issue - it's UBER, where there is no option for the rider to pay a 'cashless' tip. 80% of my LYFT rides add a tip. only 20% of my UBER rides offer a tip (but fortunately, those are usually $5, $10 or $20 since they've used their singles up tipping doormen, waiters, baggage handlers, strippers - you know - everyone else they tip regularly with singles)


----------



## Sydney Uber

RideshareGuru said:


> My tips are definitely up. Maybe people just don't like you, lol.
> View attachment 4574


Good results there Guru!


----------



## Sydney Uber

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Hey Sydney - no offense intended (in fact I admire you for your optimism) - but you're either under 30 years old, or have lived your entire life in a suburban bubble. _"the percentage of riders that do have a conscience and considers the person beside them and their situation"_ is not forgotten by me and since Uber deals only in empirical data (not rose-colored glasses 'visions' of a lovely society) you can be sure Uber know that the population of caring, concerned citizenry is absolutely insignificant to their business.


Quite the opposite Michael, almost a 30 year veteran of the industry. 9 yrs in Cabs, 20 in Private Hire.

Perhaps my judgement is skewed by the fact I do see a greater number of total fares on a regular basis. As such a business relationship develops far beyond that that can be established in a point A to B rideshare "Quickie".

Also, because of the average longer length a Black trip runs, more can be communicated. I willing to concede on those differances.

But I do believe there is a whole section of UBER's rideshare client base that would vote with their feet and go to a more "human/friendly" platform and service provider.

Lyft should get serious and simply settle on the top 30% of the rideshare market culling both the poor drivers and riders, leaving them to UBER. We all know that UBER wants the WHOLE market and to win that they have had to implement strategies to include a client base that Taxi Drivers wouldn't lower themselves to service.

The longer UBER takes this route, the surer the more discerning, discretionary and informed riders will move across to Lyft.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Uber Black explains a lot about your clientele. Do you driver UberX at all?

I do have to admit that over the last three days, while I haven't employed the 'TAG' stuff, I have softened how I talk about Uber (because EVRYONE asks about Uber) and have taken a more conversational tone with passengers... and for the evening I drive, my cash tips have been great from those that give them... %10s, $20s... and last night and tonight each had a $40 tipper. But the majority of my UberX fares do not tip - usually because they have no spare cash on them and they believe it is included in the service.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

> Passengers do not think that drivers have any knowledge at all about how Uber works... they are getting emails directly from Uber telling them that the system is designed to be cashless (ie: no cash tip is required). The implication is that tips are included and passed on to drivers - and to make matters worse, they remember when they set-up their account there was *something* about setting a tip amount in the app - it doesn't matter that it was for Uber Taxi, because they have no idea what Uber Taxi is - and assume that Uber is tipping you x%.




*CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT FILED IN FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT OVER UBER TIPPING PRACTICES*
http://tinyurl.com/qdr6833


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

RideshareGuru said:


> My tips are definitely up. Maybe people just don't like you, lol.


MORE than just a possibility!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

corpsman2012 said:


> "When using uberTAXI (requesting a ride from a cab via the Uber app, available in select cities), drivers will input the metered fare into the Uber driver application. In most cities-*and all cities in the United States*-*a default 20%* of the metered fare will be automatically added and paid to the driver as a gratuity.


I guess that's different by city, too... Lehigh Valley just opened up and the default tip for UberTAXI is only 10%:
_ from the Uber blog:_


> _*Taxi estimates include 10% tip. *With uberX, tip is not required or expected*._



What BS... a tip may not be required... but I'm an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR and *a tip damn well is EXPECTED* - and Uber has no authority to tell me otherwise - unless they'd like to make me an employee!


----------



## SCdave

Where can I write that " With UberX, the $1 SRF is not required or expected"?


----------



## SCdave

It's Monday, I'm doing errands and reading way too many threads on Uberpeeps.

But my new slogan for drivers and catchphrase is "Don't Tip the App, Tip the Driver" 

Keep positive, always. If the PAX says, "But Uber says No Tip Required". 

Say, "Yes, no need to tip the App" and leave it at that.

If PAX follows with, "But Uber says there is no need to Tip".

Say, "Yes, you are correct. No need to tip the App".
Be positive and state facts. The fact is, "Yes, there is no need to Tip the App".

PAX asks me "Do you need a tip".
Yes, but only if you want to. It's optional but not included in the Fare.

PAX, "Really, should I tip my Uber Driver".
Yes, but only if you paid 50% of a Taxi and had a much better experience.

PAX: "Now I'm really confused"
Yes, so are all of the Drivers.

Sigh.


----------



## NightRider

Why aren't we all just telling passengers to read the user agreement? It's right there in the app [Uber Menu -> About -> Legal -> Terms and Conditions] , and clearly spells out the fact that 

Uber does not designate any portion of your payment as a tip or gratuity to the Third Party Provider. Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is "voluntary", "not required," and/or "included" in the payments you make for services provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts, beyond those described above, to the Third Party Provider. ​
Of course, it's also chock full of other tidbits that make for great reading while riding in an Uber car, including such classics as

UBER DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE SUITABILITY, SAFETY OR ABILITY OF THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS.​
UBER WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN DISPUTES BETWEEN YOU AND A THIRD PARTY PROVIDER.​
And who can forget

UBER HAS NO RESPONSIBILLITY OR LIABILITY TO YOU RELATED TO ANY TRANSPORTATION OR LOGISTICS PROVIDED TO YOU BY THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS​
I've actually been contemplating putting a small sign in my car letting passengers know that they can read Uber's service terms right from within the app. (...in fact, you could be reading them RIGHT NOW.. simply click About -> Legal -> Terms! It's Uber EASY!)


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

NightRider said:


> Why aren't we all just telling passengers to read the user agreement? It's right there in the app [Uber Menu -> About -> Legal -> Terms and Conditions]


All of the quoting I do about the driver agreement and I'd never bothered to read the PAX agreement... thank you!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Hey... Uber wants drivers to provide pax with a great ride experience - how about a 'game show' during the ride:
How Well Do You Know Your Uber Agreement?!
Q & A


----------

