# Uber driver & Santander loans in the news



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

Our own Rich Brunelle speaks out to the press about Uber & his Santander car loan.

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/04/24/one-uber-drivers-story-how-he-was-trapped-by-auto-loan-program


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Again to anyone consider financing an car to drive uber RUN AWAY, RUN FAST RUN FAR!!!!!!!!!!. Santander is the devil.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

F**k santander and F**K UBER!!


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## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Again to anyone consider financing an car to drive uber RUN AWAY, RUN FAST RUN FAR!!!!!!!!!!. Santander is the devil.


John 8:44


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

suewho said:


> F**k santander and F**K UBER!!


 f....cking A right.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Not for nothing but if you have shitty credit your gonna get shitty rates. If anything this is a lesson in protecting your credit and paying bills on time. These people knew the rates before they signed the agreement. Now do the honorable thing and pay your bill That you agreed to.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Too bad and very sad to hear what really had happened to our fellow forum member. I now know what was driving him. He is in a trap. 

For uber or not, I would never buy a car with a lease or financing. I will always buy cash only. The last thing I want to own with money I don't gave is a car financed or leased.


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## Sweet Ping (Jan 20, 2015)

Where is that thread, where a driver started seeng double payment charged from his uber pay because after 6 months of lease because uber never forwarded car payments to a bank in time till the bank got sick of their bullshit.
It took him 2 month to figure out that the only way to not go broke is to return the car?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Simon said:


> Not for nothing but if you have shitty credit your gonna get shitty rates. If anything this is a lesson in protecting your credit and paying bills on time. These people knew the rates before they signed the agreement. Now do the honorable thing and pay your bill That you agreed to.


I generally agree with that philosophy, but I have met a few drivers who were really misled about the income opportunity. Even today, I continue to hear ads on the radio touting this incredible source of income in Austin, when cars are swarming like bees all over town, at the airport, in front of hotels, etc. because they have overstaffed, consistently. It is really hard for me to fault most drivers I've met, especially some of the younger, naïve drivers. There are a few who I hope are going broke, they know who they are, they were some of the early adopters, political activists, etc, they knew exactly what was going on they were proudly flouting the laws and shouting us down as we tried to tell them about the nature of this business. If I see those people standing on a street corner with a sign reading "I used to drive for food", I may chuckle, but for the most part, the drivers I have met have been misled, with little history to learn from.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

It is Usury simple as that.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

"Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.."
-Matthew 25:27


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## Jackie murphy (Dec 10, 2014)

I too got stuck in this Nightmare Uber did same thing to me Didn't take out Payments first 6 weeks then Uber / Santander took Double payments for 4 weeks charge me late fees I can never catch up a Santander says simply give it back Uber says there not involved I told Santander I can afford 227 a week but 454 is killing me to add insult to injury Santander with a straight face can't tell me when I'll be caught up I say if I missed 6 payments and you get 6 payments I should be caught up but Santamder says not so This is ****in crazy so now I work 1 day Saturday might to pay for this van and now Santander calls weekly to shake me up about Repo if I can't get even But they don't even know the exact number


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Too bad and very sad to hear what really had happened to our fellow forum member. I now know what was driving him. He is in a trap.
> 
> For uber or not, I would never buy a car with a lease or financing. I will always buy cash only. The last thing I want to own with money I don't gave is a car financed or leased.


Yes UberXTampa its sad to me as well. I applaud Rich Brunelle for coming out to the press with his story..not easy to do.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

Jackie murphy said:


> I too got stuck in this Nightmare Uber did same thing to me Didn't take out Payments first 6 weeks then Uber / Santander took Double payments for 4 weeks charge me late fees I can never catch up a Santander says simply give it back Uber says there not involved I told Santander I can afford 227 a week but 454 is killing me to add insult to injury Santander with a straight face can't tell me when I'll be caught up I say if I missed 6 payments and you get 6 payments I should be caught up but Santamder says not so This is ****in crazy so now I work 1 day Saturday might to pay for this van and now Santander calls weekly to shake me up about Repo if I can't get even But they don't even know the exact number


Your state attorney general is suing Santander for pretatory loan practices. You should call your attorney general & tell them of your story. Sorry for what u have gone thru.


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## Mark in SD (Apr 15, 2015)

In CA it is Westlake. I looked into it via a friend that works at a car dealer. The dealer will write a contract for 4%. The dealer has 10 days to cancel the contract in CA. They know you will not get a 4% loan. The sub prime lender, Westlake will come back with 13.99% once you have had the car for a few days. 
Many people fall for this, because they don't want to give back the car. Don't do this. They will finance it over 5 years and you will be stuck with $450/month payments paid weekly through Uber. If Uber reduces PAX mileage costs, as they have many times, you will be stuck, or have to go bankrupt.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Uber might even be a bigger accomplice in this. They may be steering good trips initially to those of us who borrow to buy uber cars. Just so they think it is lucrative and temporarily. This is until rates are cut, market is flooded with many drivers and promotions for free rides dry up. I expect everything from uber. You cannot turn your back on them.


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## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Uber might even be a bigger accomplice in this. They may be steering good trips initially to those of us who borrow to buy uber cars. Just so they think it is lucrative and temporarily. This is until rates are cut, market is flooded with many drivers and promotions for free rides dry up. I expect everything from uber. You cannot turn your back on them.


I believe you hit it right on the head.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Can't refi? No details given. Bought a car not on Ubers list? But still driving for Uber? There is something missing from this story. Always has been.


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## UberComic (Apr 17, 2014)

I can't emphasize this enough. Don't buy a new car to do UberX! If you have good credit, and were going to buy a new car anyway that's another thing. Here in LA you can drive a 2000 model year car. I'm rolling in a super clean 2000 Ford Taurus I paid $800 for.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

UberComic said:


> I can't emphasize this enough. Don't buy a new car to do UberX! If you have good credit, and were going to buy a new car anyway that's another thing. Here in LA you can drive a 2000 model year car. I'm rolling in a super clean 2000 Ford Taurus I paid $800 for.


That's the way to UberX! Even $800.00 car is too much for some riders.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Simon said:


> Not for nothing but if you have shitty credit your gonna get shitty rates. If anything this is a lesson in protecting your credit and paying bills on time. These people knew the rates before they signed the agreement. Now do the honorable thing and pay your bill That you agreed to.


Lenders are expected to asses risk. The reason these people couldn't get a loan at regular rates, is because they couldn't get a loan. No lender found them to be a reasonable risk. This is usury, it is unethical and illegal.

This is not a simple lesson in anything. These are predatory practices. The people making the loans damn well know the score and understand full well who they are lending to. Furthermore, Uber and Santander have partnered on this program, they have full knowledge between the two parties that Uber rates and policies are mercurial at best.

No one is learning much here. There is too much licking of wounds to be able to sit down and say, "Gee what did I learn from this?" One reason it is predatory is they have well proven to be lending to people who aren't interested in learning. Not cool


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Lenders are expected to asses risk. The reason these people couldn't get a loan at regular rates, is because they couldn't get a loan. No lender found them to be a reasonable risk. This is usury, it is unethical and illegal.
> 
> This is not a simple lesson in anything. These are predatory practices. The people making the loans damn well know the score and understand full well who they are lending to. Furthermore, Uber and Santander have partnered on this program, they have full knowledge between the two parties that Uber rates and policies are mercurial at best.
> 
> No one is learning much here. There is too much licking of wounds to be able to sit down and say, "Gee what did I learn from this?" One reason it is predatory is they have well proven to be lending to people who aren't interested in learning. Not cool


Then maybe I have a bit more common sense about me. When I was 26 my credit was shit.. I knew car loans were out of the question so I did a buy here pay here loan. I knew what I was getting into and what that loan cost. I paid my high bills and made the loan payoff. I did not cry the blues after the fact because I knew I was a risk and because I did not take my credit seriously I paid the extra fees.

Now I'm 40 and have a 5 star credit rating and I would never sign onto such a shitty deal.

These people knew what they were signing and agreed to honor the shitty deal On that day. it was an investment (gamble) and it did not payoff. No different then going to the casino and losing then saying.. oh well o did not know the odds were against me.


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## Mark in SD (Apr 15, 2015)

I agree with UberComic completely, and I would take it one step further. Never buy a new car. Buy a 3 year old car coming off lease in good shape. Go for a Certified used car from a dealer if you have the bucks. New tires, brakes, inspection program, and less than 40k miles. Save $5-$6k right off. 
There are plenty of older (2000 +) Uber worthy used cars out there if you are buying for Uber. If you understand auto auctions, and are a bit of a mechanic you may want to roll the dice on a public auction car. $4k will get you a Uber worthy car at auction. Add $500 for tires and another $800 for repairs and you could end up with a car that looks and runs good. Auctions are a crap shoot, and you can loose. Hang around the car until the auction runner starts the car before they drive it to the block. They usually let it warm up for a few minutes so you can hear the engine. Listen to the ****** when he returns to put it in gear and drive it to the block. You can get a good runner if you know a bit about cars.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Simon said:


> Then maybe I have a bit more common sense about me. When I was 26 my credit was shit.. I knew car loans were out of the question so I did a buy here pay here loan. I knew what I was getting into and what that loan cost. I paid my high bills and made the loan payoff. I did not cry the blues after the fact because I knew I was a risk and because I did not take my credit seriously I paid the extra fees.
> 
> Now I'm 40 and have a 5 star credit rating and I would never sign onto such a shitty deal.
> 
> These people knew what they were signing and agreed to honor the shitty deal On that day. it was an investment (gamble) and it did not payoff. No different then going to the casino and losing then saying.. oh well o did not know the odds were against me.


These aren't people trying to use this specifically to fix their credit is my guess. They aren't concerned with their ratings. The point is, it is predatory lending. Ethical lending institutions turned them down already.

The three parties involved are Uber, Santander and the person looking to make a go of it and improve their life. They have been sold a particular idea as to what Uber can do for them. What is Santander's fiduciary duty towards the person receiving the loan here? My guess is, at this moment no one can answer that question reasonably. I'd guess it has yet to be determined. It could be minimal.

It doesn't mater if you or I have sense. These people have no sense, that might be what makes the loans predatory in the first place. They are a proven not to have such sense and proven high risk and become a target. Santander and Uber should very much be taken to task.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Huberis said:


> These aren't people trying to use this specifically to fix their credit is my guess. They aren't concerned with their ratings. The point is, it is predatory lending. Ethical lending institutions turned them down already.
> 
> The three parties involved are Uber, Santander and the person looking to make a go of it and improve their life. They have been sold a particular idea as to what Uber can do for them. What is Santander's fiduciary duty towards the person receiving the loan here? My guess is, at this moment no one can answer that question reasonably. I'd guess it has yet to be determined. It could be minimal.
> 
> It doesn't mater if you or I have sense. These people have no sense, that might be what makes the loans predatory in the first place. They are a proven not to have such sense and proven high risk and become a target. Santander and Uber should very much be taken to task.


So we agree that they have no sense. Which is basically the meat of my post. Yes it is predatory lending.. but I suspect these people had wild dollar signs in their eyes of easy money and a new car that would pay for itself.

it's not like they wouldn't be getting a car from somewhere else at an insanely high interest rate.. uber just happen to be one of those outlets.

End 9f the day the purchaser made the shitty deal they should stick to it. I mean you don't think the med dali an holders in NYC should get a bailout from your tax dollars do you? Neither should this guy.


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## Brett in NYC (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Can't refi? No details given. Bought a car not on Ubers list? But still driving for Uber? There is something missing from this story. Always has been.


58 years old and looking for a retirement job; has never used credit cards, yet has no cash for a down payment and can't get a proper loan.

You are correct, Sir.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Simon said:


> So we agree that they have no sense. Which is basically the meat of my post. Yes it is predatory lending.. but I suspect these people had wild dollar signs in their eyes of easy money and a new car that would pay for itself.
> 
> it's not like they wouldn't be getting a car from somewhere else at an insanely high interest rate.. uber just happen to be one of those outlets.
> 
> End 9f the day the purchaser made the shitty deal they should stick to it. I mean you don't think the med dali an holders in NYC should get a bailout from your tax dollars do you? Neither should this guy.


I don't want to go into the medallion issue, save that for another day and stay on point. How much or how little the borrower should be held to, is not for me to decide. What is the responsibility of the lender here? Keep it simple.

A loan was made that no reasonable bank would have made at a fraction of the interest. A responsible loaner, an ethical one would have sent them to the curb. It is a predatory practice.

We don't agree to this point. I keep mentioning the idea of Usury and fiduciary duty (a grey area). I'd like to hear what you have to say about those thoughts. In the end, the points you make here are kind of subjective and they only go so far.

One reason they only go so far is for the reason that loans come with risk and people at lending institutions have more than enough of an understanding to know that there is little or no chance for these loans to be paid off. It is there job to asses that risk.

I believe Santander should be under investigation and what they are doing is criminal. There is no excuse. You seem to agree with most of my criticism of both Uber and Santander and their behavior here.

I do not understand why you wouldn't hold them responsible first and foremost. You suggest in the last thread- they weren't going to get the money from anyone else. Why do you suppose that is?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Simon After you answer my questions about usury, fiduciary duty and what the ethics of predatory lending are, I would be curious, what you think about these loans continuing? You suggest the practice is predatory, yet suggest the debt should be paid off by the borrower and not the loaner in this case.

Should the loans continue? What penalty should Santander pay?

This link is a bit off topic but is quite interesting: 
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/04/13/the-kings-of-the-desert


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## The_Nerd (Jan 7, 2015)

Yeah, I'm sorry, dude... but you purchased a car _not _on the Uber discount list, you failed to read your contract before you signed it (at _least _look at the interest rate, man.) And it doesn't sound like one of the Santander/Uber lease deals, right? It sounds like you just got caught up in a bad car loan.

Don't hang this on Uber. You're a grown man, like many of us here. With your experience as a truck driver, I'm surprise you got caught up by something as basic as an auto loan contract.

Sympathy for your situation. Not Uber's fault.

And I question Sam Harnett's acumen as a true journalist. I'm a journalist, Sam, and I know a spin job when I see one.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

The_Nerd said:


> Yeah, I'm sorry, dude... but you purchased a car _not _on the Uber discount list, you failed to read your contract before you signed it (at _least _look at the interest rate, man.) And it doesn't sound like one of the Santander/Uber lease deals, right? It sounds like you just got caught up in a bad car loan.
> 
> Don't hang this on Uber. You're a grown man, like many of us here. With your experience as a truck driver, I'm surprise you got caught up by something as basic as an auto loan contract.
> 
> ...


The loan is usury.

I am not a journalist. What makes this a spin job?
How about a link featuring some of your writing?


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> Uber might even be a bigger accomplice in this. They may be steering good trips initially to those of us who borrow to buy uber cars. Just so they think it is lucrative and temporarily. This is until rates are cut, market is flooded with many drivers and promotions for free rides dry up. I expect everything from uber. You cannot turn your back on them.


I absolutely believe that UBER management has manipulated the app to direct trips to favored drivers. There's nothing to stop this age old practice. Just ask any fleet driver whether dispatch hands out all the trips in a fair manner.

UBER knows exactly who their best customers are, how much they spend, where they are, and when they order service.

We're talking about UBER here. Do you actually think they are not "sharing" valuable information with particular drivers.

For instance, I know that managers in my market are routinely using the same drivers on a daily basis.


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## berserk42 (Apr 24, 2015)

The_Nerd said:


> Yeah, I'm sorry, dude... but you purchased a car _not _on the Uber discount list, you failed to read your contract before you signed it (at _least _look at the interest rate, man.) And it doesn't sound like one of the Santander/Uber lease deals, right? It sounds like you just got caught up in a bad car loan.
> 
> Don't hang this on Uber. You're a grown man, like many of us here. With your experience as a truck driver, I'm surprise you got caught up by something as basic as an auto loan contract.
> 
> ...


This seems like it could be predatory lending. That said, this guy is still an idiot. No changing that fact.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Huberis said:


> The loan is usury.
> 
> I am not a journalist. What makes this a spin job?
> How about a link featuring some of your writing?


 I agree it's usary. The only spin I could see is one either/or ubers and santanders end. I do agree with some that Rich should have known that it's no good.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Santander knows damn well what they are doing. They are well aware these people are mostly going to fail. That is why they load the loan so hard with super high interest. They have partnered up with Uber, they damn well know as much as any seasoned driver how Uber goes about its business.

People who suggest these people should just take responsibility for being dumb asses, suck it up and pay it off....... That's horse shit and far too simple. If a bank wont give a loan for a car at 4% interest for a modest car, how is it anything other than criminal to put them in a $25,000 car @ 22% interest??? Santander knows the score. They fleece these people for 6 months of several thousand bucks, the borrower loses the car, the car is perhaps bought at auction........ Santander IS NOT going to lose money on this deal or they wouldn't be doing it. It is that simple.

Santander has complete knowledge these people will fail expects them to fail yet lends the money anyway. People who insist these people need to simply suck it up and pay up....... These people do not need to pay out $45,000 for a $25,000 car in order for Santander to make quite a bit of money.


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## ARIV005 (Mar 4, 2015)

If his credit is already bad or non existent, take the hit, take a shit in the backseat and give it back to Satan-der. When they complain about the smell, tell me Uber pays for the cleaning


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