# Has there ever been a per mile increase in us market?



## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

I see rates dropping all the time in various markets.. 75 cents here in Orlando .. 

I was wondering if any market has ever seen an increase?

If not that's a good sign that might suggest they never will go up.


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## Aztek98 (Jul 23, 2015)

Is that 75 after Uber cut?


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Before


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## Aztek98 (Jul 23, 2015)

Good Lord man quit.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

I think 75 centz is the target price that every common market will eventually have


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## Aztek98 (Jul 23, 2015)

75 cents minus 25% (for the driver that replaces me)

Insane


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

60 cents a mile before expenses and gas, you're not making any money, please quit.


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## FlDriver (Oct 16, 2015)

I think Orlando has the lowest rate in the country- does any other city charge that little?

It's surprising, since Orlando is not a cheap city to live in and many of the tourist things like theme parks are pretty expensive.

It also seems odd that Orlando has a lower rate than Tampa, which is less than 100 miles away. If anything, gas and cost of living are higher in Orlando than Tampa, so there's no rational reason for the different rates.

How long has Uber been in business in Orlando?


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

It is almost impossible to be in the black at $.75 a mile. Even if you don't have a loss your per mile net would be $.05. Not worth it.

Some markets cratered down to around that and were brought up to $1.05-1.10/mile.


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## Aztek98 (Jul 23, 2015)

Orlando has a very abundant cheap labor force.

I guess driving for peanuts is the best option for them.


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## Bjo16 (Aug 13, 2015)

my god are people really that dumb to think they are mking money at those rates. simple fact people. if you dont drive uber has no drivers and is forced to raise up the rates.


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## little132 (Nov 7, 2015)

I believe Miami/Ft. Lauderdale is .75. I'm about to quit myself. Not worth it.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

Miami is .85 for x and .75 for pool, would never drive at those rates. There was a rate increase in I believe Seattle and San Fran earlier this year.


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## little132 (Nov 7, 2015)

.85 isn't much better. At that rate you still lose.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

little132 said:


> .85 isn't much better. At that rate you still lose.


Exactly why I won't drive x and do XL only. Orientation for amazon flex is tonight will see if that's any better.


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

Aztek98 said:


> Is that 75 after Uber cut?





SECOTIME said:


> Before





Aztek98 said:


> Good Lord man quit.


Lmao!


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

I think Atlanta had a price bump the other day.


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## 7Miles (Dec 17, 2014)

limepro said:


> Exactly why I won't drive x and do XL only. Orientation for amazon flex is tonight will see if that's any better.


I signed up for Amazon also. But it is not available here yet. They put me on the list though. Please share if delieveri g packages is really $18-27 an hour or not . I refuse to delieveri smelly food, packages would be better than drunk pax too


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

SECOTIME said:


> I see rates dropping all the time in various markets.. 75 cents here in Orlando ..
> 
> I was wondering if any market has ever seen an increase?
> 
> If not that's a good sign that might suggest they never will go up.


Yes, LA and OC were down to .90 per mile. Now, LA is $1.00 per mile and OC is $1.10 per mile.


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## Altima ATL (Jul 13, 2015)

UberMensch2015 said:


> I think Atlanta had a price bump the other day.


Was a month or so back - after the 'Summer Promotion' price of .80 - was put back to $1 per mile. And just after that they increased the SRF.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

7Miles said:


> I signed up for Amazon also. But it is not available here yet. They put me on the list though. Please share if delieveri g packages is really $18-27 an hour or not . I refuse to delieveri smelly food, packages would be better than drunk pax too


It is an "hourly" position, they will assign you to a 2 hour block and give you how much the pay for that 2 hours is. That money is guaranteed + tips. Different times have different rates so say you get 6pm-8pm it may say its worth $42. This is how they showed it in orientation. The biggest problem is you may or may not get those 2 hour blocks. I'm sure there are many things that affect it, they tell you declining a given shift will, I'm sure being on time will also.

There were people logging into orientation half an hour late, that to me is a bad sign.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

its been several cities that have gotten a "raise". Normally its only 10-20 cent increases. And normally its only the markets that have been cut dreadfully low(rates under a dollar) that get a small raise


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Well that's good to hear.. Orlando needs a bump. 75 cent is doodoo


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## UberGuitarist (Sep 14, 2015)

Charlotte dropped from $1.00 to $0.75 early in November. Lots of experienced drivers have refused to drive for so little (including me), but they had a huge push for new drivers in the month or two leading up to it. Hard to make any money at such low rates with so many drivers on the road.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

A lot of markets 'rebounded' after the winter rate drop. They were still lower than the pre winter rates, but they did go up a little.


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## baldmonkey (Jul 16, 2015)

Prices go up when driver demand goes up. Also until Taxi's are destroyed, they will not let up. I dont think any market has given up on taxi's yet, therefore any increase in fare (other than BS safety fee) would be a detriment to the cause and an uptick in taxi service. This is a technology company, and they are building evaluation, the number one way to increase evaluation is to show continued trend upward of customer acquisition an realized and unrealized ability to profit.

Someday they will go up. What you'll see is continued increase in initial driver bonus money. This is an attempt to keep prices where they are while onboarding drivers to ensure surge doesn't occur to often. They will continue to increase until this bonus number until it is no longer economically feasible, after which they will likely attempt to get drivers that have stopped or been deactivated for "fluff" reason back onto the platform. After this they may consider a price hike.

(all this doesn't take into account individual circumstances)


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

The Newark airport in NJ went from 1.10 a mile to 2.15 a mile because of all the drivers who cancelled trips not going to NYC and all the NYC drivers who refused to go to Newark airport. Since NYC Uber X is all commercial drivers with rates set by the regulatory agency, Uber needs to please its NYC drivers who are not so expendable


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

baldmonkey said:


> Prices go up when driver demand goes up. Also until Taxi's are destroyed, they will not let up. I dont think any market has given up on taxi's yet, therefore any increase in fare (other than BS safety fee) would be a detriment to the cause and an uptick in taxi service. This is a technology company, and they are building evaluation, the number one way to increase evaluation is to show continued trend upward of customer acquisition an realized and unrealized ability to profit.
> 
> Someday they will go up. What you'll see is continued increase in initial driver bonus money. This is an attempt to keep prices where they are while onboarding drivers to ensure surge doesn't occur to often. They will continue to increase until this bonus number until it is no longer economically feasible, after which they will likely attempt to get drivers that have stopped or been deactivated for "fluff" reason back onto the platform. After this they may consider a price hike.
> 
> (all this doesn't take into account individual circumstances)


This is based on false logic and faulty assumptions.

Travis could put the squeeze on taxis without hurtling rates down the toilet. *The rates trend toward noncompetitive rates in order to avoid future disruption from other like minded venture capitalists. *

"Someday they will go up. What you'll see is continued increase in initial driver bonus money. This is an attempt to keep prices where they are while onboarding drivers to ensure surge doesn't occur to often. They will continue to increase until this bonus number until it is no longer economically feasible, after which they will likely attempt to get drivers that have stopped or been deactivated for "fluff" reason back onto the platform. After this they may consider a price hike." - Unlikely scenario.


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## Muki (Oct 15, 2015)

Huberis said:


> This is based on false logic and faulty assumptions.
> 
> Travis could put the squeeze on taxis without hurtling rates down the toilet. *The rates trend toward noncompetitive rates in order to avoid future disruption from other like minded venture capitalists. *


Rates eventually have to go up because Uber is not making any money. They've been operating in the red since their inception. Their rates are unsustainable, both to investors and to drivers. This could go on for a long time. How long they can continue not turning a profit will depend on the confidence of their investors. But whatever the case, they have to start making money eventually.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Muki said:


> Rates eventually have to go up because Uber is not making any money. They've been operating in the red since their inception. Their rates are unsustainable, both to investors and to drivers. This could go on for a long time. How long they can continue not turning a profit will depend on the confidence of their investors. But whatever the case, they have to start making money eventually.


Look at Amazon. More than two decades old and they have yet to turn a profit. Uber is a Ponzi scheme. They engage in antitrust activity.

Uber is not a means to an end. Kalanick and Uber are interested in developing intellectual property. Kalanick seems to use Uber as a Ponzi scheme geared at generating venture Capital from the likes of Goldman Sachs. They want the app to be ubiquitous. That alone is worth lots of money. - Search " Uber God's View" for one example. Look at what Uber did to Carnegie Melon's Robotics institute. The Wall Street Journal gave that good coverage.

The New Yorker had a great article concerning the culture of venture capitalism. 
www.*newyorker*.com/magazine/2015/05/.../tomorrows-advance-man
‎

Uber in fact is not sustainable. That Kalanick and Co are of mind to make Uber a sustainable operation is any one's guess. I personally doubt that is a priority. Kalanick is likely to scuttle Uber the moment he feels it is to his advantage.

Uber is about developing intellectual property which can be patented and licensed. They are developing auto pilot cars under the guise that the goal is to deliver driver- less cars to the world of TNC. Many drivers on this forum seem to believe that Uber wouldn't start making money on that project until autonomous cars appear on the market, ready and able to displace human Uber drivers.

That is false. Uber will be making money during the evolution of the technologies through licensing. It is happening now. Uber the ubiquitous TNC enables that capital to be generated for now.

Rather than concern themselves with a sustainable model, should the need someday prove unavoidable, my guess is Travis would either sell out, close shop or succumb to lawsuits. When that time comes, he will have his other ventures well protected and beyond the scope of Uber's possible downfall.

Look at Kalanick's past. He doesn't need Uber to last. Uber serves Travis, Travis doesn't serve Uber.


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## Davesway10 (Aug 7, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Uber is a Ponzi scheme. They engage in antitrust activity.


I don't believe either of these statements have any merit. In order to be a Ponzi scheme wouldn't they be paying off investors with other investors money claiming huge profits to entice even more investors ? As far as antitrust goes.. Maybe if they were ruled a transportation company, maybe. All they are really doing now is selling a cheaper product in order to gain market share. Hardly illegal. And lets face it this is one big ass market with lots and lots of competitors. Google already has 1 patent on driverless cars and has 4 pending, UBER will have a major hurtle obtaining their own patents unless they can develop something that is totally unique in its operation. UBER currently holds 2 patents and has several others in various stages, including final rejection. None of which appear to have anything to do with driverless cars http://patentvue.com/2015/05/15/uber-receives-first-utility-patent/. I do agree with your assessment of Travis selling out though.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Davesway10 said:


> All they are really doing now is selling a cheaper product in order to gain market share.


Uber has prices set below competitive rates to avoid disruption in the future. Kalanick himself has stated avoiding disruption is the principal reason for working on self-driving cars.

Uber is able to set prices according to their needs, in complete disregard of their partner's costs to operate those cars. Uber's need ultimately is to avoid disruption. The moment they raise rates to a sustainable level, they themselves become vulnerable to some degree of disruption. Kalanick can not tolerate that.

The way people like Kalanick operate is not sustainable. If you try to arrange a TNC like Uber so the numbers work out for both Uber and driver, the model will no longer be manageable. Not given their goal of providing a fleet of cars intended to meet peak demand at all times. I do notice Uber is beginning to subordinate the need to always provide pax with the opportunity to book an idle car. That privilege is being eroded, it is great for the pax, but ultimately not reflected in the base rates of mature markets.

We shall see. There are going to be regulatory requirements imposed on Uber over time. Uber's ability to define itself on its own terms is going to be challenged. Its relationship with a legion of self described independent contractor - drivers is being challenged today and the status looks shaky.

As it is now, Uber is not operating in a sustainable fashion. Can Uber be reformed with or without Kalanick present? I sure have my doubts.


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## Davesway10 (Aug 7, 2015)

Huberis said:


> We shall see. There are going to be regulatory requirements imposed on Uber over time. Uber's ability to define itself on its own terms is going to be challenged. Its relationship with a legion of self described independent contractor - drivers is being challenged today and the status looks shaky.


I Agree completely here, right now it's not a level playing field and the taxi industry is getting hammered because of it, at least in part. But, on the same note, eventually the taxi industry is going to bend the knee in order to survive. Just apply natural selection to the business model, adapt or die.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Davesway10 said:


> I Agree completely here, right now it's not a level playing field and the taxi industry is getting hammered because of it, at least in part. But, on the same note, eventually the taxi industry is going to bend the knee in order to survive. Just apply natural selection to the business model, adapt or die.


In both California and Oregon Uber is looking like an employer. Should that happen in PA and stick for example, I can tell you it would cost them dearly here. Every year, the taxi company I driver for needs to prove to Bureau of Worker's Comp that they are not employing their drivers. If that status ever changed, it would be game over for them.

I am not sure what you mean by "eventually the taxi industry is going to bend the knee in order to survive". The taxi industry is not even remotely as monolithic as people on this forum seem to believe. Every state has their own set of rules. PA for example is regulated by the PUC with the exception of Philly which has its own taxi authority. The medallion system is not universally used. The taxi industry is on a different page in every state.

There is nothing extraordinary about what Uber is doing in terms of the actual app. The interface works very well. The ability to physically watch the car approach is wonderful. Neither would be very tough to duplicate.

What makes Uber Uber is their ability to provide a fleet designed to meet the needs of peak demand. The only way they can do that is by divorcing themselves from the traditional costs associated with owning and operating a massive fleet of cars.

Leaving themselves free of those obligations allowed them to define themselves on their own terms. That needs to be reviewed. By not being responsible for the costs of the car, they are free to sign up as many drivers as they are able to. They are also able to set prices based on their need to avoid disruption in the future. It is hard to believe that drivers who take on all the risk and are in fact described as independent contractors have zero say with respect to how base rates are determined let alone how many drivers are let onto the platform in a particular market. The fact that drivers own the cars and not Uber, means that Uber can withstand tremendous numbers of drivers to come and go (even in the form of a walk off) without suffering the least.

Uber's model based on a redundancy of drivers virtually guarantees basement rates...... there are all kinds of problems. The taxi industry in all states are in desperate need of reform. the TNC industry I would venture to guess is far more monolithic. It is needs an exceptional amount of reform itself. Unless reform comes to the TNC industry, their is no way the taxi industry can adapt. It is that simple.

The complaints that Uber drivers in mature markets make, are completely inline with the criticism taxi drivers paying attention have always made. My income as a taxi driver in State College is going to be gone at the same time any individual Uber driver suddenly notices his money is gone if he cares to notice.

It isn't a matter of adapt or die. The TNC industry is deeply needing reform, no doubt the same could be said for the taxi industry in most states.


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## rosco_78 (Nov 26, 2015)

Boston for UberX is $1.24 per mile plus a lot of surging in Cambridge, Somerville and the surrounding areas. UberX is profitable for me if I do a 10-12 hour window after I get out of work on Friday (I'm in Cambridge) and do a few hours on Saturday and Sunday....lots of airport runs on Sunday afternoons


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

FlDriver said:


> I think Orlando has the lowest rate in the country- does any other city charge that little?
> w
> It's surprising, since Orlando is not a cheap city to live in and many of the tourist things like theme parks are pretty expensive.
> 
> ...


dallas .85 cent a mile.I guess .75 is the next rate cut


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Davesway10 said:


> In order to be a Ponzi scheme wouldn't they be paying off investors with other investors mone


I should say I regard as a Ponzi scheme, within the bounds of the bounds of that definition in the sense that the drivers are in a sense a large base of investors. They invest their time, energy and their car. What is Uber doing with that initial investment? They are putting in into the development of technology which could same day force them out of the picture at the profit of bigger individual investors.

"Travis Kalanick, the CEO and founder of Uber, said at a conference last year that he'd replace human Uber drivers with a fleet of self-driving cars in a second. "You're not just paying for the car - you're paying for the other dude in the car," he said. "When there's no other dude in the car, the cost of taking an Uber anywhere becomes cheaper than owning a vehicle.""

http://citypaper.net/uberdriver/

I feel it is within bounds to refer to them as a Ponzi scheme of some kind.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

ATL2SD said:


> Lmao!





7Miles said:


> I signed up for Amazon also. But it is not available here yet. They put me on the list though. Please share if delieveri g packages is really $18-27 an hour or not . I refuse to delieveri smelly food, packages would be better than drunk pax too


smelly food better than smelly people


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

ATL2SD said:


> Lmao!


that the reason we should drive surge only if you go out there drive regular fares uber will continue to cut rates


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

baldmonkey said:


> Prices go up when driver demand goes up. Also until Taxi's are destroyed, they will not let up. I dont think any market has given up on taxi's yet, therefore any increase in fare (other than BS safety fee) would be a detriment to the cause and an uptick in taxi service. This is a technology company, and they are building evaluation, the number one way to increase evaluation is to show continued trend upward of customer acquisition an realized and unrealized ability to profit.
> 
> Someday they will go up. What you'll see is continued increase in initial driver bonus money. This is an attempt to keep prices where they are while onboarding drivers to ensure surge doesn't occur to often. They will continue to increase until this bonus number until it is no longer economically feasible, after which they will likely attempt to get drivers that have stopped or been deactivated for "fluff" reason back onto the platform. After this they may consider a price hike.
> 
> (all this doesn't take into account individual circumstances)


It more about beating lyft at this point.Taxi can't compete on price


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## jetboatjohnny (Jan 21, 2015)

Orange County, CA was $1.25/mile when I started and dropped to $.90 and is now $1.10. Palm Springs was $2.00/mile now $1.45.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

jetboatjohnny said:


> Orange County, CA was $1.25/mile when I started and dropped to $.90 and is now $1.10. Palm Springs was $2.00/mile now $1.45.


los Vagas and portland seem to be the highest at this point.Portland 1.85 per mile not sure you going to beat that on uber x


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

KMANDERSON said:


> It more about beating lyft at this point.Taxi can't compete on price


Uber's own drivers can't compete with each other at that such low prices. Beyond its pissing match to the bottom of the bowl with Lyft, the low rates are likely to remain as low as possible in order to prevent future disruption from some unforeseen startup. The pricing is noncompetitive. At some time in the future, antitrust issues will come to the forefront of attention.

No one can compete with what is noncompetitive. Drivers are effectively in competition with each other. If you look at the attrition rates, the ratio of active to inactive drivers (Uber offer's those numbers forNYC), it tends to suggest that TNC drivers themselves are victims of Uber's own noncompetitive war.

Lyft can only be said to compete with Lyft due to the same fact that they too are divorced from the cost of operating the cars and they too have deep pocketed VCs investing in them to keep them afloat. What they are doing in the name of competition will catch up to them, by the time a market moves to maturity, it has already caught up with the drivers had got to have their honeymoon making big bucks casually.


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## Muki (Oct 15, 2015)

KMANDERSON said:


> that the reason we should drive surge only if you go out there drive regular fares uber will continue to cut rates


It's kinda hard to beat the market. If everyone stops driving unless it's surge, then surge will be happening all the time, but then the second everyone logs in to get that surge it will disappear. The market is the market. Too many drivers out there willing to drive for low rates + no tipping. That's the issue. There's a reason the city sets taxi rates and only gives out a certain amount of medallions so that the market isn't oversaturated with taxis and they can actually make a living wage.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Muki said:


> It's kinda hard to beat the market. If everyone stops driving unless it's surge, then surge will be happening all the time, but then the second everyone logs in to get that surge it will disappear. The market is the market. Too many drivers out there willing to drive for low rates + no tipping. That's the issue. There's a reason the city sets taxi rates and only gives out a certain amount of medallions so that the market isn't oversaturated with taxis and they can actually make a living wage.


yeah but if that happened uber would raise the per mile rate.Cause the people that paid the surge would be complaining about it.And there service would be less reliable


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## Muki (Oct 15, 2015)

KMANDERSON said:


> yeah but if that happened uber would raise the per mile rate.Cause the people that paid the surge would be complaining about it.And there service would be less reliable


For everyone to collectively stop driving at low rates in any significant number would take a lot of organization between riders. The problem is that we are all completely atomized. How many Uber drivers are on this forum? How would you even get the message out? And let's say 50% of drivers did decide to strike during 1x rates, you'd have all these drivers that weren't part of it that would now see it surging and would go out and cash in while everyone else is sitting home. That's why striking on Uber just doesn't work. Nobody really knows what everyone else is doing.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Muki said:


> For everyone to collectively stop driving at low rates in any significant number would take a lot of organization between riders. The problem is that we are all completely atomized. How many Uber drivers are on this forum? How would you even get the message out? And let's say 50% of drivers did decide to strike during 1x rates, you'd have all these drivers that weren't part of it that would now see it surging and would go out and cash in while everyone else is sitting home. That's why striking on Uber just doesn't work. Nobody really knows what everyone else is doing.


yeah I hard to argue with that.90 percent the driver probably don't know about this forum


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> I see rates dropping all the time in various markets.. 75 cents here in Orlando ..
> 
> I was wondering if any market has ever seen an increase?
> 
> If not that's a good sign that might suggest they never will go up.


Well hopefully it surges alot in orlando


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

limepro said:


> Exactly why I won't drive x and do XL only. Orientation for amazon flex is tonight will see if that's any better.


I was all about amazon then they say there not compatible with verizon.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> Well that's good to hear.. Orlando needs a bump. 75 cent is doodoo


.75 per mile seems to be uber minimum wage.do know if you get lower than that


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

I've done over 750 trips and only have gotten about 6-7 surge trips


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> I've done over 750 trips and only have gotten about 6-7 surge trips


wow it never surges in orlando


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> I've done over 750 trips and only have gotten about 6-7 surge trips


is lyft any better.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

No clue.


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## jetboatjohnny (Jan 21, 2015)

Some of us can't rely on surge fares. It never surges here but I often get rides to surge zones. You can strategize all you want but it mostly comes down to luck.


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## FormerUber (Sep 29, 2015)

Charlotte has been 75 cents a mile (before Uber's cut and driver's expenses) since the beginning of November. Hardly a "summer promotion!"


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## Muki (Oct 15, 2015)

jetboatjohnny said:


> Some of us can't rely on surge fares. It never surges here but I often get rides to surge zones. You can strategize all you want but it mostly comes down to luck.


I think this is mostly true. Unless it's a very busy night and it's surging everywhere and its sustained, you can't depend on it. For the most part in my market surge is very short lived. And even if you get one of those early evening surges in the suburbs to head to the city, you would then have to deadhead back out toe suburbs to get another surge fare which would then eat into your profit and leave you right back where you started. It's hard to beat the system and be well above average. And whoever has managed to hack it obviously isn't going to be quick to give away their secrets. I think the best thing everyone can do is just turn off the car and park as much as possible when you don't have a fare. My rule is I'll stay put wherever I drop a pax off. If I don't get a ping within 15 minutes then I reposition.


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