# Uber Cancellation Abuse - Mini FAQ



## glados (May 23, 2015)

*What is cancellation abuse?*
Cancellation abuse, also known as "ACRO" and "skipping" is when a driver accepts a request that they do not intend to take, and then quickly cancels it. Uber rides are known for being reliable, affordable, and safe, and Uber will take appropriate action (including waitlisting and permanent deactivations) if there is evidence a driver is engaging in cancellation abuse.

*How can I avoid being waitlisted or deactivated for cancellation abuse?*
If you don't intend to take a request, let it time out and be passed onto the next driver. Do not accept the request only to cancel. Uber does keep track of driver cancellations and will take appropriate action if evidence of cancellation abuse is discovered.

*Do I have the right to choose which requests I take?*
Yes. You are free to choose which requests you accept, however excessively low acceptance ratings and/or driver cancellation can result in waitlisting and permanent deactivation.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Optimus Uber destroysglados

Post 1.



Optimus Uber said:


> Ok dip shit. You have my attention. We all know by now you're a programmed employee that has no clue how a business runs. You come on here and cut and paste propaganda.
> 
> Uber attempts to control the drivers by wait listing them on Thursday and closing the office on Friday and it backfired on them.
> 
> ...


Post 2



Optimus Uber said:


> Just relax man. He's an uber employee. He was put on here, by uber, to give uber a voice.
> 
> All of his threads are that of a csr. Except, the one difference is he knows uber's policy verbatim. So they gave him the job of being uber's voice on this forum. They Told him, it's a promotion. So he makes $16 an hour now. But at least he gets benefits.
> 
> ...


The cancels do not show on the trip report. So they are not being tracked.

Show us where in the agreement I accepted it says Uber can legally do this?

Chapter and verse, please. Page and section of the agreement. Or it is illegal.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Bogus. The cancels do not show on the trip report. So they are not being tracked.


These cancellations are indeed tracked by Uber, even though they may not show on the driver trip report. The rider will also see the cancellation in their history.

Please don't be misled by "advice" claiming that these cancellations will not be actioned on by Uber. Remember, you are fully responsible for actions taken on your account.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Edit:

Time for @glados and me to share a crow dinner. I just did the experiment with a fellow driver. I was the rider and videotaped my phone. There was nothing onerous about getting this "proof".

@glados was right. The skipping driver info came up, but it vanished quickly and the re-request went out.

I @Sacto Burbs was right. The skipped driver was NOT in the rider history. The second driver (on whom I cancelled very quickly) was.

THERE IS NO HISTORY OF THE SKIP. Glados was using scare tactics and trying to get us to let the ping expire - so Uber would have a record of it.

*Uber skipping On !*​(End edit)

Why is Uber not showing it on our trip reports? The rider never sees it. Post a video example to prove what you say is true.

Uber may operate illegally contrary to the contract, and you want us not to opt out of arbitration so they only have to pay out $0.30 on the dollar when the lawsuit settles.

Why are you afraid to show proof?


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

glados said:


> *Do I have the right to choose which requests I take?*
> Yes. You are free to choose which requests you accept, however excessively low acceptance ratings and/or driver cancellation can result in waitlisting and permanent deactivation.


So I have the right to decline or cancel a unknown percentage of requests and when I exceed that unknown percentage I may or may not be wait listed.
That is intentionally unclear and obtuse information for the purpose of being able to take or not take random punitive action.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

If you cannot stop drivers from operating within the legal terms of the contract, you use scare tactics?

Proof that riders can see a quick skip, vs a slow cancel. Proof or it ain't true.

You are afraid to just use the contract, aren't you. Hmmm...I wonder why.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

There's no need to provide onerous proof. Cancellation abuse hurts both riders and drivers alike, and many drivers in certain markets have been waitlisted for cancellation abuse. Please keep in mind that you are responsible for all actions you perform under your account.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

Yes, cancellations hurt! They HURT Uber, maybe. The system does NOT register an accept+cancel. There is a delay that the system is not able to detect. 
I have done this several times with my own rider account and it does NOT show driver cancel. It simply cycled over to the next closest driver. Period.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

If you don't want to take a ride, accept it and make no effort to pick up the passenger, Let the passenger cancel it. If they wait more than five minutes to cancel, and most will, you'll get paid for the cancellation.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Well we have caught glados in a bald faced lie. I told you she was a good troll.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> If you don't want to take a ride, accept it and make no effort to pick up the passenger, Let the passenger cancel it. If they wait more than five minutes to cancel, and most will, you'll get paid for the cancellation.


This way you are giving the rider a way out. 
Rider can claim driver never moved and uber can check GPS to verify.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

It would be foolish for Uber to send an accept request too quickly. Even without the skipping it could create a false-positive so to speak and prevent the next closest driver from taking the call.

On iPhone you used to be able to reject the call, not just let or time out. Is that option still there?


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

glados said:


> There's no need to provide onerous proof.


Maybe there is no need to but how about just humoring us and at the same time PROVING IT.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> *What is cancellation abuse?*
> Cancellation abuse, also known as "ACRO" and "skipping" is when a driver accepts a request that they do not intend to take, and then quickly cancels it. Uber rides are known for being reliable, affordable, and safe, and Uber will take appropriate action (including waitlisting and permanent deactivations) if there is evidence a driver is engaging in cancellation abuse.
> 
> *How can I avoid being waitlisted or deactivated for cancellation abuse?*
> ...





Sacto Burbs said:


> Show us where in the agreement I accepted it says Uber can legally do this?


Since slippery glados, who self identifies him/her self with the villainous character *GLADOS* in a video game, won't cite The *Partnership Agreement's* terms on Acceptance Rate & Cancellation Policy, I will do it.

_You retain the option, via the Driver App, to attempt to accept or to decline or ignore a User's request for Services via the Uber Services, or to cancel an accepted request for Transportation Services via the Driver App, subject to Company's then-current cancellation policies. 








_

glados please provide the Forum Members with Uber's "Current Cancellation Policy", and what Cancellation Rate Threshold are Drivers expected to maintain.
Contractually, Individual Drivers, who are Independent Contractors per the Agreement, CANNOT be held accountable for a Policy that is not spelled out.
Contractually, Individual Drivers CANNOT be Waitlisted or Deactivated on the basis of the Cancellation Rate, a metric that is NOT made available to them by Uber.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> Rider can claim driver never moved and uber can check GPS to verify.


And you can say you were stuck in traffic behind a car accident. You're assuming that the person would even bother to follow up with Uber. Most people don't.

At least my way, I get a shot at getting paid. I find it works out better than flat out cancelling which can play against you and you never get paid.

There are a few people on my "route" that I don't ever want to drive again. Since Uber doesn't care about horrible passengers and continues to connect them with me, even though I have complained and rated them a one, I accept their rides and never pick them up. I have one dumbass that I've gotten paid from multiple times.

You obviously can't do this all the time or Uber would eventually catch on.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

chi1cabby:

Please see section 2.4 and 2.5.2

"Company retains the right to, at any time at Company's sole discretion, deactivate or otherwise restrict you from accessing or using the Driver App [...] your *act or omission* that causes *harm to Company*'s or its Affiliates brand, *reputation or business* as determined by Company in its sole discretion, *or for any other reason at the reasonable discretion of Company*."

"Additionally, you acknowledge that your *repeated failure to accept Uber requests* for Transportation Services while you are logged in to the Driver App *creates a negative experience* for Users of Uber's mobile application. *If you do not wish to accept User requests for Transportation Services for a period of time, you will log off of the Driver App*.""


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Hey Glados.... Tell us all about Uber claiming to their passengers that tips are included. I'm still waiting to receive those "included tips."


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

That not at all what I asked. Why did *Uber lie* to all the passengers by telling them that "tips were included?"


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I see you deleted your post where you showed us the Uber contract which stated that Uber lied about tips. Go ahead and repost that. I love it when you comment on this forum. If you're trying to let us know what an evil company Uber is, you have succeeded.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

So, glados how are you gonna justify the column that says "gratuities" on the CSV file of the statement? Uber is and always has collected gratuities from riders. Whether they disclose this, that remains to be seen thru the lawsuit.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> So, glados how are you gonna justify the column that says "gratuities" on the CSV file of the statement? Uber is and always has collected gratuities from riders. Whether they disclose this, that remains to be seen thru the lawsuit.


That's for UberTaxi where gratuities are collected.

Uber is not collecting gratuities from riders for other services. You are paid the fare, minus Uber's Service Fee. The driver pays the fare. It's clear there is no gratuity collected.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

glados said:


> "Company retains the right to, at any time at Company's sole discretion, deactivate or otherwise restrict you from accessing or using the Driver App [...] your *act or omission* that causes *harm to Company*'s or its Affiliates brand, *reputation or business* as determined by Company in its sole discretion, *or for any other reason at the reasonable discretion of Company*."


So clearly it has nothing to do with acceptance or cancel rates. It is more accurately described as "if we feel like deactivating you, we will".


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

Hey chi1cabby eould you post the "header" row of a statement of your CVS file.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

glados said:


> *repeated failure to accept Uber requests*


I accept them all


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

*


glados said:



f you do not wish to accept User requests for Transportation Services for a period of time, you will log off of the Driver App.

Click to expand...

*I do Want to - but only the ones I want


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

glados said:


> That's for UberTaxi where gratuities are collected.
> 
> Uber is not collecting gratuities from riders for other services. You are paid the fare, minus Uber's Service Fee. The driver pays the fare. It's clear there is no gratuity collected.


The Woody show disagrees. They claim that 99% of Uber riders have been told by Uber that the tip is included.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> Please see section 2.4 and 2.5.2


Uber is using Cancellation Rate as the reason for Waitlisting these Drivers & threatening Deactivations. It is Section 2.4 that is applicable here. But you've been unable to cite so far, Uber's Current Cancellation Policy or Cancellation Rate Threshold.









SECTION 2.4

_"Company retains the right to, at any time at Company's sole discretion, deactivate or otherwise restrict you from accessing or using the Driver App or the Uber Services* in the event of violation of this Agreement*, your disparagement of the Company or any of it's Affiliates, your act or omission that causes harm to Company's or its Affiliates brand, reputation or business as determined by Company in its sole discretion, or for any other reason at the reasonable discretion of Company."_
Section 2.4 has been deemed by Judge Chen as the clause by which Uber gave itself the right to fire (deactivate) Drivers "At Will" & "Without Cause." It uses the term Reasonable Discretion, but that Reasonable Discretion is never spelled out.

_







_
Section 2.5.2 pertains to Driver Star Rating and Acceptance Rate. It does not pertain to Cancellation Policy.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> *Proof* that riders can see a quick skip, vs a slow cancel. *Proof* or it ain't true.





glados said:


> There's no need to provide *onerous proof*.


This is *exactly* what glados is doing in his
*Uber Cancellation Abuse - Mini FAQ*


Sacto Burbs said:


> If you cannot stop drivers from operating within the legal terms of the contract, you use *scare tactics*?


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> This is *exactly* what glados is doing in his
> *Uber Cancellation Abuse - Mini FAQ*
> 
> View attachment 13631


FTW


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## PowerTrip (Aug 18, 2015)

*Here is an article I found *
*http://motherboard.vice.com/read/ubers-phantom-cabs*



*THE PASSENGER PLAY*
Passengers learn to game the system, too. Some drivers report that passengers will place their pick-up location outside of a surge zone, and then call drivers to direct them to where they really are. Some drivers also express frustration when they receive ride requests from outside the surge areas when they're waiting in a surge because it means they have to work at lower rates. They risk a hit to their cancellation rating, which Uber monitors, if they decline rides. In the San Francisco market, for example, drivers are expected to have a cancellation rate of less than 5 percent, or they risk losing access (being fired) to the system:










_Screenshot from Uber's partner __website__ in San Francisco._


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## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

glados said:


> There's no need to provide onerous proof. Cancellation abuse hurts both riders and drivers alike, and many drivers in certain markets have been waitlisted for cancellation abuse. Please keep in mind that you are responsible for all actions you perform under your account.


I remember a former congressman named McArthy...

"I have here a list...."

Optimus nailed it, you suck, Uber sucks, and the drivers own you.

Slowly but surely, the tide is turning and Uber's day......and yours by default.....is coming.

Don't say you weren't warned.


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## LA#1x3 (Jul 9, 2015)

Glados go jump off a cliff


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

glados said:


> Please see section 2.4 and 2.5.2
> "Company retains the right to, at any time at Company's sole discretion, deactivate or otherwise restrict you from accessing or using the Driver App...


glados ,* You very conveniently left off the rest of that sentence:*
... *in the event of a violation of this agreement*... "

Who are you trying to fool?
Why are you being such an asshole?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

The acceptance rate measure is absurd here...
Even when I accept every rider request, my acceptance RATE is never above ~80% because of Uber network glitches, Uber app problems [Forbidden - error 403] and spotty cell service in some areas.
It's a joke.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

glados said:


> It's clear there is no gratuity collected.


glados , Have you ever driven a day as an Uber driver?
Are you really THAT ignorant to come on to this board,
where thousands of drivers have provided hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of rides and have listened to rider after rider exclaim "the tip's included, right?"...
and tell us that it is "clear there is no gratuity collected"?

You are an asshole... and I do not know how you can live with yourself doing the job you are doing here.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> glados , Have you ever driven a day as an Uber driver?
> Are you really THAT ignorant to come on to this board,
> where thousands of drivers have provided hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of rides and have listened to rider after rider exclaim "the tips included, right?"...
> and tell us that it is "clear there is no gratuity collected"?
> ...


It is impossible to reason with ignorance


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## rtaatl (Jul 3, 2014)

So where's the FAQ about passengers who constantly cancel because they're fishing for a better vehicle. Especially on Uberblack where they're trying to find an SUV for a cheaper price and I get 4-5 cancels in a row from the same passenger...without reimbursement. How about you Uber shills deal with that.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> It is impossible to reason with ignorance


I'm afraid I used the word 'ignorance' in place of calling a user 'stupid' (since the mods here don't like that).
In glados case, it's not ignorance at all...
This person is here intentionally misleading and lying to people on Uber's behalf.
There is nothing ignorant about it.
It is evil.

Uber COULD have had a representative participate here to discuss driver's concerns and explain Uber policy and strategy...
but instead, they appear to have implemented another misinformation campaign.
It goes to the terribly misguided and self-destructive Uber corporate culture which can be traced back to Travis Kalanick, who sees business as both a 'game' and a 'war'.

Clearly, Uber has declared war on the very drivers who provide the services Uber sells.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Cancellation "abuse"?

*Misuse *of the cancel feature
*Improper *use of the cancel feature
*Unintended *use of the cancel feature
*Unexpected* use of the cancel feature

but hardly Abuse.

In fact it is none of the above. Where are the grammar police?


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## XUberMike (Aug 2, 2015)

Rider Cancellation abuse is far worse than driver cancellation abuse. They work the system as good or better than the driver. That being said let drivers be on a even playing field with PAX...that is 5 minutes to cancel "free."

I had 6 cancellations last night all surges all cancelled...after the suge was removed OR lowered that is. RIDERS work in a group request a ride while the others keep their app open looking for a reduction in the surge. When they see a reduction they cancel the first driver accept a second driver and go back to looking for a surge reduction and then repeat this practice until they get an acceptable rate ( which is exactly the opposite of what drivers do) in the meantime drivers are on the hook backtracking to pick them up only to get a cancel.

Just let drivers and passengers be on a level playing field with 5 minute cancellations for free and there should be no complaints. You could even go so far has put the number of cancellations the rider has done in the last 30 days on the request that way we know not to accept them in the first place.

I don't understand why Screwber has a double standard with cancellations in regards to the rider or the passenger, keep them the same for both.


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

While i havent read eveything... i will say this. You're foolish to think Uber doesnt track something. Just because it doesnt show or you havent been "talked to" doesnt mean they dont know about it. 

Billion dollar companies track EVERYTHING down to what you eat. They probably record your phone calls and have certain triggers that get them flagged. 

So dispite it being or not being in the agreement.... it happens.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

If they are tracking the skips, then it would be trivial to have them show up on the cancel report and quietly nail those who skip too much. So, what else is going on ...


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

I said before and I'll say it again.

Some of the members on the forum are paid by Uber.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I said before and I'll say it again.
> 
> Some of the members on the forum are paid by Uber.


well technically, if you have drove for them, or are still... We're all being paid by Uber


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> well technically, if you have drove for them, or are still... We're all being paid by Uber


Nope. According to my partner agreement I am paid by my passenger. 
Uber is just a third party payer... 
and I pay Uber.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

merkurfan said:


> well technically, if you have drove for them, or are still... We're all being paid by Uber


Technically we pay Uber 20% and they collect our money and give it to us.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Technically we pay Uber 20% and they collect our money and give it to us.


that's 20 to 30%.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

glados said:


> *What is cancellation abuse?*
> Cancellation abuse, also known as "ACRO" and "skipping" is when a driver accepts a request that they do not intend to take, and then quickly cancels it. Uber rides are known for being reliable, affordable, and safe, and Uber will take appropriate action (including waitlisting and permanent deactivations) if there is evidence a driver is engaging in cancellation abuse.
> 
> *How can I avoid being waitlisted or deactivated for cancellation abuse?*
> ...


Did you just make this BS up?


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Backdash said:


> So clearly it has nothing to do with acceptance or cancel rates. It is more accurately described as "if we feel like deactivating you, we will".


Completely arbitrary and in bad faith... this alone makes them in breach of the agreement with the partner/drivers. Of course, Uber could careless as their entire business model is premised on breaking laws and unethical behavior.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

glados said:


> These cancellations are indeed tracked by Uber, even though they may not show on the driver trip report. The rider will also see the cancellation in their history.


The thing about computers and other electronic contraptions is that they leave tracks. You strike a key, it leaves a track. The TNC page may not show you the keystroke in question, but that does not mean that it is not in the memory of some computer somewhere. .......and when did *any* TNC ever start being totally up-front with its drivers?



glados said:


> Cancellation abuse hurts both riders and *drivers* (emphasis mine) alike, and many drivers in certain markets have been waitlisted for cancellation abuse.


You left out the part about the consequences to users for "cancellation abuse".



Sacto Burbs said:


> On iPhone you used to be able to reject the call, not just let or time out. Is that option still there?


Most digital call assignment programs have the "REJECT" button feature in some form. My Taxi and Hail-O both had it, as does the call assignment system for my current and former cab companies. Other cab companies' call assignment systems have this feature. Uber seems to be the only one that does not. I suspect that in omitting this feature, Uber is trying to discourage drivers from rejecting requests.



Realityshark said:


> Hey Glados.... Tell us all about Uber claiming to their passengers that tips are included. I'm still waiting to receive those "included tips."


Please let me know when you get yours on UberX; I want mine, as well. Uber is, however, giving me all of my included tips on Uber Taxi.



glados said:


> The driver pays the fare.


At last a bit of honesty from a TNC, although the "fare" that the driver pays is proverbial. I suspect that the quoted poster meant to put "rider" or "user". A Freudian slip, perhaps?



Backdash said:


> "if we feel like deactivating you, we will".


The courts in the District of Columbia and Delaware have upheld contract termination without cause. I post from experience on this one.



PowerTrip said:


> *THE PASSENGER PLAY*
> Passengers learn to game the system, too. Some drivers report that passengers will place their pick-up location outside of a surge zone, and then call drivers to direct them to where they really are. Some drivers also express frustration when they receive ride requests from outside the surge areas when they're waiting in a surge because it means they have to work at lower rates.


......especially when the application attempts to run them a long distance out of the surge zone for a base-rate trip. This is abuse of the system by the platform operator. What are the consequences to the platform operator for abuse of his own platform? Might I suggest that the platform operator be required to pay the surge rate to the driver jerked for the base rate trip?

The quoted citation clearly illustrates abuse of the system by the rider. Again, what are the consequences to the rider for "abuse" of the system?



Michael - Cleveland said:


> Uber COULD have had a representative participate here to discuss driver's concerns and explain Uber policy and strategy...


I, for one, do value the Uber employees that we have here. I would like to see employees of the other platforms here, as well. Sadly, when some of them sign onto this forum for the first time, several of the forum users greet them with a barrage of hostility, belligerence and name-calling. This has made more than one TNC employee unhappy. While we can make the usual thin-skinned/thick skinned argument, still, people should have better manners.



Sacto Burbs said:


> If they are tracking the skips, then it would be trivial to have them show up on the cancel report and quietly nail those who skip too much. So, what else is going on ...


.....likely more than what the TNCs are willing to tell us. It would not be hard for them to show something related to the ACRO rate, but that would force them to acknowledge that they are on to those who are doing it.



KGB7 said:


> I said before and I'll say it again.


......at least those people are getting paid to get that brown, stylised "U" on their noses. What makes me laugh is the larger number of forum users who are not getting paid to show that brown, stylised "U" on their noses.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The courts in the District of Columbia and Delaware have upheld contract termination without cause. I post from experience on this one.


Agreed, my point exactly.


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## pizza guy (Jul 23, 2015)

What about those pain in the ass 2-4 minute pax cancellations we don't get paid for? If pax recieve a 5 minute grace period then drivers should recieve enough time to make an informed decision to decide if they want to accept the ride or not. Had a quick (20 sec) pax cancellation today with a pickup few blocks from home. Re-pinged 2 minutes later resulting in $50 fare with 30% tip leaving me in a surge. 
The cancellation policy is something Uber needs to fix. I do not want to be an employee of Uber and have them tell me when and how to work but instead like to be a true independant contractor. The Uber of abuse of IC's is nothing compared to what I saw working pizza and catering. At same time it is in the best interest of driver and pax if the closest driver completes the ride.
Solution: Give drivers pax name, pickup location, pax rating and one minute grace period (45 seconds after accepting initial request). After 2 minutes pax are charged for driver mileage and time according to market rates up to the maximum cancellation fee. Allow drivers to cite realistic reasons for quick cancellations such as: previous experience with customer, high distance/long time to pickup, or simply low pax rating. The results would alter who gets what pings and picky drivers would be punished, but we would be true IC's.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Gemgirlla said:


> Did you just make this BS up?


Yes, he did. Glados is not affiliated with Uber in any way as a spokesperson.

He's almost certainly a basement dweller who likes getting attention from his provocative posts. He's pretty good at it, too. Best to ignore this one, I think.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Yes, he did. Glados is not affiliated with Uber in any way as a spokesperson.
> 
> He's almost certainly a basement dweller who likes getting attention from his provocative posts. He's pretty good at it, too. Best to ignore this one, I think.


Agree...


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> that's 20 to 30%.


In Houston for new drivers on minimum fare uber takes 44% of what the rider pays.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

The thing that gets me is the Independent Contractor label. One of the main benefits to being an independent contractor is having the choice of which jobs to take. If you don't want one of the jobs a company you contract for is offering you don't take it.
Here's a real world example. Let's say you take 20% of the jobs that Company X offers you. If you are the best option for that 20% they will continue to contract with you regardless of your "acceptance rating". The best person for any UberX ride is the closest. So, even if you only accept 20% of the rides you are still the best option for the ones you take. 

This is very, very basic logic.

Now, I get that the 80% you turn down you are also the best option for but that really doesn't matter. By accepting the 20% you still add value and efficiency to Company X.

Period.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Backdash said:


> Agreed, my point exactly.


However, there is duty of good faith and fair dealings implied in every agreement/contract. If the party terminating the agreement acts in bad faith, the termination can be challenged as in breach of the agreement.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm with you on this stuff but one mans bad faith is another mans fair dealings. 
Proving bad faith unless extremely obvious is no simple thing.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Backdash said:


> I'm with you on this stuff but one mans bad faith is another mans fair dealings.
> Proving bad faith unless extremely obvious is no simple thing.


You are right it isn't simple. However, given the inconsistencies between the partner agreement basically stating that it is up to the drivers which rides they accept and then penalizing them for low acceptance and high cancellation rates without even explicitly stating what are the acceptable rates to stay active on the platforms is alone pretty good evidence for a bad faith claim.... Uber is trying to meet the standards for IC (showing that they do not have control of the drivers) so the drivers won't be classified as employees while in actuality controlling the drivers. Sounds like pretty bad faith to me on many levels.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

> "Gemgirlla, post: 479546, member: 3393"You are right it isn't simple. However, given the inconsistencies between the partner agreement basically stating that it is up to the drivers which rides they accept and then penalizing them for low acceptance and high cancellation rates without even explicitly stating what are the acceptable rates to stay active on the platforms is alone pretty good evidence for a bad faith claim.... Uber is trying to meet the standards for IC (showing that they do not have control of the drivers) so the drivers won't be classified as employees while in actuality controlling the drivers. Sounds like pretty bad faith to me on many levels.


Companies like Uber, which are unencumbered by ethics, will always try to get away with as much as possible in order to maximise their profit.

When I had my own company I put ethics above profit. Short term profit could be had by ripping customers off, deceiving them etc, but I believed that if you treat customers and employees fairly then that by itself would translate into more business and higher profits - word gets around. Plus you have a clear conscience.

I've had many Lyft pax, mostly female but some males also, say that they boycott Uber because of its shady practices.


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## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Gemgirlla said:


> Sounds like pretty bad faith to me on many levels


Sounds like it to me also, litigating it is another thing.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

elelegido said:


> I've had many Lyft pax, mostly female but some males also, say that they boycott Uber because of its shady practices.


Ditto. The guys even get quite rabid about it.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Backdash said:


> Sounds like it to me also, litigating it is another thing.


It is harder than the employee v. IC case, which is stronger and much better for the drivers. But honestly, Uber is so egregious, I don't really think the bad faith claim would be that hard here.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

sidewazzz said:


> While i havent read eveything... i will say this. You're foolish to think Uber doesnt track something. Just because it doesnt show or you havent been "talked to" doesnt mean they dont know about it.
> 
> Billion dollar companies track EVERYTHING down to what you eat. They probably record your phone calls and have certain triggers that get them flagged.
> 
> So dispite it being or not being in the agreement.... it happens.


They certainly track when we text or call paxs. They must track it to know what drivers to waitlist right?


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

Gemgirlla said:


> They certainly track when we text or call paxs. They must track it to know what drivers to waitlist right?


Yes its been established they monitor when we text and call pax.

Serval other things have happen to me personaly that make it seem as if they are able to listen to the conversations as well.


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## d'Uber (Apr 7, 2015)

rtaatl said:


> So where's the FAQ about passengers who constantly cancel because they're fishing for a better vehicle. Especially on Uberblack where they're trying to find an SUV for a cheaper price and I get 4-5 cancels in a row from the same passenger...without reimbursement. How about you Uber shills deal with that.


Had this happen to me today; I got pulled back to an area near Bob Hope Airport I had just left after dropping off pax from North Hollywood. As I made the U-turn and started the left turn, CANCEL. Got pinged again, CANCEL. One more time, and then I just turned around again and drove until other pax who weren't looking for a luxury vehicle at $1.00 a mile/18 cents a minute pinged.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

sidewazzz said:


> Serval other things have happen to me personaly that make it seem as if they are able to listen to the conversations as well.


I avoid taking or making phone calls from/to my Uber #. When a pax calls I send a txt to explain that I can't talk on the phone while I'm driving and to please send a txt with any instructions or info I might need. My 'txt record' is always professional. If I have to talk on the phone with a pax, I keep that at a professional level as well. As it should be.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

d'Uber said:


> Had this happen to me today; I got pulled back to an area near Bob Hope Airport I had just left after dropping off pax from North Hollywood. As I made the U-turn and started the left turn, CANCEL. Got pinged again, CANCEL. One more time, and then I just turned around again and drove until other pax who weren't looking for a luxury vehicle at $1.00 a mile/18 cents a minute pinged.


Happens to me almost everyday as well.


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## fork2323 (Aug 27, 2014)

glados said:


> That's for UberTaxi where gratuities are collected.
> 
> Uber is not collecting gratuities from riders for other services. You are paid the fare, minus Uber's Service Fee. The driver pays the fare. It's clear there is no gratuity collected.


What about the fake $1 safe rider fee that uber takes from all the drivers off every ride and just puts it in its pocket as profit?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

fork2323 said:


> What about the fake $1 safe rider fee that uber takes from all the drivers off every ride and just puts it in its pocket as profit?


What are you talking about? 
Uber charges the pax $1SRF and collects that from the total fare collected from the rider. 
The driver never sees that $1 and it only 'comes' from the driver' on paper. 
For tax purposes it is an equal and offsetting amount - and non-impact transaction.
I personally couldn't care less what Uber charges the rider that doesn't effect me.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

This whole thread is more fuel for the courts and employee side. Someone print this out yet ?



glados said:


> "Additionally, you acknowledge that your *repeated failure to "accept" Uber requests* for Transportation Services while you are logged in to the Driver App *creates a negative experience* for Users ...


How could this be ? Since the ping will time out and goto the next driver, who is further away ! All I see is a negative impact on the driver.

Since when does Uber care about its drivers?


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

#this thread.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

The part of Section 2.4 that pertains to Cancellation is this:
_You retain the option, via the Driver App, to attempt to accept or to decline or ignore a User's request for Services via the Uber Services, or to cancel an accepted request for Transportation Services via the Driver App, subject to Company's then-current cancellation policies. 








_

Convenient that glados cites the part of Section 2.4 that doesn't pertain to Cancellations!









Moreover he engages in misrepresentation by omitting *"in the event of violation of this Agreement" *from his post.


glados said:


> Please see *section 2.4 *and 2.5.2
> 
> "Company retains the right to, at any time at Company's sole discretion, deactivate or otherwise restrict you from accessing or using the Driver App* [...]* your *act or omission* that causes *harm to Company*'s or its Affiliates brand, *reputation or business* as determined by Company in its sole discretion, *or for any other reason at the reasonable discretion of Company*."





Michael - Cleveland said:


> glados ,* You very conveniently left off the rest of that sentence:*
> ... *in the event of a violation of this agreement*... "
> 
> Who are you trying to fool?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

glados said:


> *What is cancellation abuse?*
> Cancellation abuse, also known as "ACRO" and "skipping" is when a driver accepts a request that they do not intend to take, and then quickly cancels it. Uber rides are known for being reliable, affordable, and safe, and Uber will take appropriate action (including waitlisting and permanent deactivations) if there is evidence a driver is engaging in cancellation abuse.
> 
> *How can I avoid being waitlisted or deactivated for cancellation abuse?*
> ...


My acceptance rate is 82% and my driver rating is 4.96. I got a note from Uber many months ago about my acceptance rate. After I pointed out my driver rating, I never heard any further bullshit about my acceptance rate.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> If I have to talk on the phone with a pax, I keep that at a professional level as well.


USER: Hello

DRIVER: This is Uber Taxi calling, are you expecting a taxi?

USER: (sounds annoyed) Yes, where are you? I'm waiting.

DRIVER: Are you on the 14th, Constitution Avenue or 15th Street side?

USER: (even more annoyed). I am on the 15th Street side, where _*ARE*_ you?

DRIVER: Good, under the blue awning. Stay right there, I am around the corner on the Constitution Avenue side, I am coming now, if should be two minutes or less. It is a Ford Fusion hybrid and the driver is wearing a Nationals baseball cap.

USER: (really annoyed). How long will it take you to get here? I'm late.

DRIVER: Less than two minutes, I am here, just around the corner. Thank you.

USER: I'm waiting, thank you. (hangs up).

Once I pick up, I do show the customer what the icon showed, which is why I went where I did.

If it is UberX, I leave out the "taxi" part and simply say "This is Uber calling". Keep it to the facts necessary to achieve the pick-up. Do not respond to the passenger's agitiation. It is not the passenger's fault that there is no field in the application for "Special Pick-up Instructions". Even if there were, most passengers take no consideration of that. If they did, they would send you a text with those instructions. Few passengers do this. Passengers will fail to plan adequately. If you respond to their being annoyed, you make a bad situation worse, as a rule. In most cases, if you fail to respond, they will back off. To be sure, there are those who will not shut up, but for the majority of those, if you tell them in a courteous, professional and businesslike manner that they should discontinue browbeating you as you will not tolerate it, they back off. You are not risking a one-star from them on that, you were getting one star when they put in the request.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

> It is not the passenger's fault that there is no field in the application for "Special Pick-up Instructions".


Well, actually it is the pax fault.
Most are not blind. They CAN see where they have sent the driver from their own app - and could either correct it or txt additional info to the driver.
They don't. Why?
Because UBER DOESN'T TEACH/INFORM RIDERS HOW TO USE THE APP EFFECTIVELY.
Riders *believe* all they have to do is open the app and tap Request Ride and we will automagically know where they want to be picked up
(even if they made the request from the top floor of a 40 story building, the middle of a shopping mall - or at 2,000 ft in an airplane on approach to landing).


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> UBER DOESN'T TEACH/INFORM RIDERS HOW TO USE THE APP EFFECTIVELY
> 
> Riders *believe* all they have to do is open the app and tap Request Ride and we will automagically know where they want to be picked up
> (even if they made the request from the top floor of a 40 story building, the middle of a shopping mall - or at 2,000 ft in an airplane on approach to landing).


The passenger does not create the application, therefore he can not put the field into it, but.............

that would make it more Uber's fault than the user's, but, again................

......the last quoted statement is an excellent illustration of the problems inherent in dealing with the public. _*The Publick don't read nunna' them thar' dee-REK-shunns on nutthin' nohow. *_They buy a computer, plug in the cords, turn on the switch and it is supposed to work. They put gasolene into the car, it is supposed to go. They take the Playstation (@) out of the box, press the button and it is supposed to work. They put the mail into the box with an incomplete address and the Post Office is supposed to figure out where to send it. They get into my cab where I have a big sign that states that I can not change a fifty or one-hundred dollar bill and stick one in my face, anyhow and get an attitude when I tell them that I can not change it, as the sign reads. You can not expect the Public to do anything reasonable, it just does not happen.

GF generally is a reasonable person. Not only will she admit that she does not read directions, she will admit that she does not think that she needs to. I, on the other hand, being well schooled by my father on the subject, read the things. "When all else fails, read the directions" may be nice thought, but it does not go far enough. If you read the directions in the first place, the liklihood of failure diminshes markedly.

While it may look good on paper that the public is supposed to be reasonable, it simply does not play out empirically. You would think that someone who buys a computer would read the directions. You would think that someone who mails a letter would want to make sure that it arrived at its intended destination thus would expend every effort to see that the deliverer would have sufficient information for to deliver it. You would think that people would know that you must service any piece of machinery. It simply does not play out in that manner.


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> #this thread.
> 
> View attachment 13703


Haha...

Unfortunately, it's probably a little more serious than that. I suspect he probably works for the hive.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The passenger does not create the application, therefore he can not put the field into it, but.............
> 
> that would make it more Uber's fault than the user's, but, again................
> 
> ...


Yeah, well, to quote B.C. "_We have met the enemy and he is us_."
*** Thank you Another Uber Driver for correcting me and reminding me that this quote is from POGO, not BC! ***








​


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

sidewazzz said:


> Yes its been established they monitor when we text and call pax.
> 
> *Serval other things have happen to me personaly that make it seem as if they are able to listen to the conversations as well*.


I have the same feeling as well. Especially when I get that Professionalism cut/paste on my Weekly Reports.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The passenger does not create the application, therefore he can not put the field into it, but.............
> 
> that would make it more Uber's fault than the user's, but, again................
> 
> ...


Or to put it more succinctly: You can't fix stupid.


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## RainbowPlate (Jul 12, 2015)

glados said:


> Uber does keep track of driver cancellations and will take appropriate action if evidence of cancellation abuse is discovered.


You're missing the point. Drivers, at least those drivers who are not flaming morons, are increasingly willing to bet that Uberlyft is more afraid of employee status than drivers are of wait-listing or deactivation. Stated differently, "Bring it on..."

Incidentally, litigation means discovery, including discovery of Uberlyft's internal documents confirming that you are an employee and that these threads are posted at Uberlyft's behest.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Optimus Uber destroysglados
> 
> Post 1.
> 
> ...


You're an independent contractor, Uber can deactivate you for any reason they want unless it is somehow a violation of your civil rights (race, ethnicity, etc.)

I went through a couple of days where I didn't accept a number of requests, all for good reasons, but Uber sent me a nastygram reminding me to keep a high acceptance rating or else be deactivated. Also, to stay on Select, I have to keep an 80% acceptance rate.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Yeah, well, to quote B.C. "_We have met the enemy and they is us_."


I am about to show my age, really. Originally, that quote comes from the comic strip _*Pogo*_, drawn by Walt Kelly. I forget when he died, but it was sometime in the 1970s. His widow tried to keep it up, but it did not work well. That comic strip is known for more than a few saws.

It still is among my favourite comic strips.

Walt Kelly had many admirers, so I would not be surprised if Johnny Hart quoted that line for B.C.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I am about to show my age, really. Originally, that quote comes from the comic strip _*Pogo*_, drawn by Walt Kelly. I forget when he died, but it was sometime in the 1970s. His widow tried to keep it up, but it did not work well. That comic strip is known for more than a few saws.
> 
> It still is among my favourite comic strips.
> 
> Walt Kelly had many admirers, so I would not be surprised if Johnny Hart quoted that line for B.C.


dammit - I ALWAYS f*ck that up. And I should know better because I remember it from 1971. My Jr High friends and I started a neighborhood newspaper recycling program for the first Earth Day and named the group C.R.A.P. 
(Citizens Revolt Against Pollution)


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

glados said:


> *What is cancellation abuse?*
> Cancellation abuse, also known as "ACRO" and "skipping" is when a driver accepts a request that they do not intend to take, and then quickly cancels it. Uber rides are known for being reliable, affordable, and safe, and Uber will take appropriate action (including waitlisting and permanent deactivations) if there is evidence a driver is engaging in cancellation abuse.
> 
> *How can I avoid being waitlisted or deactivated for cancellation abuse?*
> ...


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!​I know the US agreement is Nov 2014. Another Aussie posted his agreement and it is dated *May 2014.*

https://www.dropbox.com/s/voea7ngp2fyl5ed/Transportation Provider Service Agreement-4.pdf?dl=0

Take a look and tell me if we are on 2 separate pages, guys & gals. (USA vs Glados)

BTW. . .On page 5 I found the following . . . "_You acknowledge that there is no tipping for any transportation services that you provide pursuant to the receipt of a Request_."

This is in the agreement hyperlinked above.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> I know the US agreement is Nov 2014. Another Aussie posted his agreement and it is dated *May 2014.*
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/voea7ngp2fyl5ed/Transportation Provider Service Agreement-4.pdf?dl=0
> Take a look and tell me if we are on 2 separate pages, guys & gals. (USA vs Glados)
> BTW. . .On page 5 I found the following . . . "_You acknowledge that there is no tipping for any transportation services that you provide pursuant to the receipt of a Request_."


Nice find.

_Yes, the language in the US agreement was changed in Nov 2014 specifically to get away from the implications of 'control' that exist (existed?) in the document you linked to:

Regardless of the pre-arranged Service Fee, you shall always have the right to refuse any Request without penalty.
Similarly, you and the Company shall always have the right to negotiate a Service Fee different from the pre-arranged fee. 
The purpose of the pre-arranged Service Fee is only to act as the default fee in the event neither party negotiates a different amount.

You acknowledge that there is no tipping for any transportation services that you provide pursuant to the receipt of a Request._​
Importantly, the language about Uber fares being 'default' fares and only 'suggestions' for use when a fare is not negotiated (between rider and driver) is still in the US Nov 2014 agreement.


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## KeJorn (Oct 3, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I am about to show my age, really. Originally, that quote comes from the comic strip _*Pogo*_, drawn by Walt Kelly. I forget when he died, but it was sometime in the 1970s. His widow tried to keep it up, but it did not work well. That comic strip is known for more than a few saws.
> It still is among my favourite comic strips.
> Walt Kelly had many admirers, so I would not be surprised if Johnny Hart quoted that line for B.C.


_Kelly's use of satire and politics often drew fire from those he was criticizing and their supporters. Due to complaints, a number of papers censored or dropped the strip altogether, while others moved it to the editorial page.

When he started a controversial storyline, Kelly usually created alternate, deliberately innocuous daily strips that papers could opt to run instead of the political ones for a given week. They are sometimes labeled "Special," or with a letter after the date, to denote that they were alternate offerings. Kelly referred to these strips as "bunny strips," because more often than not he populated the alternate strips with the least offensive material he could imagine -fluffy little bunnies telling safe, insipid jokes. Nevertheless, many of the bunny strips are subtle reworkings of the theme of the replaced strip. As if to drive home Kelly's point, some papers published both versions. Kelly told fans that if all they saw in Pogo were fluffy little bunnies, then their newspaper didn't believe they were capable of thinking for themselves, or didn't want them to. 
_
Kelly was before my time, but now I have a new hero...


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> Kelly was before my time, but now I have a new hero...


Without Walt Kelly, it's hard to imagine that Gary Trudeau's Doonesbury would have been what it was...









the first Doonesbury - 1970


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## ocbob2 (Aug 18, 2015)

glados said:


> There's no need to provide onerous proof. Cancellation abuse hurts both riders and drivers alike, and many drivers in certain markets have been waitlisted for cancellation abuse. Please keep in mind that you are responsible for all actions you perform under your account.


So you never answered my question a few days ago, what is best for Uber and the rider, a driver letting the ping time out 15 seconds and then go to the next driver or ACRO it with 8 seconds amd it gets to the next driver faster? Also, not answered, if we let it ping out, our acceptance rating goes to shit. So what is more important to Uber? Seems you want us to let it ping out so it is easier to track our cancellations. I assume Uber knows we are ACRO but it seems that is a much faster way to get the rider to the next driver. Also, it seems drivers have tried the ACRO on their own ride request and it never said driver cancelled due to ACRO aka skipping.


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## ocbob2 (Aug 18, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> If you don't want to take a ride, accept it and make no effort to pick up the passenger, Let the passenger cancel it. If they wait more than five minutes to cancel, and most will, you'll get paid for the cancellation.


Not true. If ETA is 7 minutes and you are not 2 minutes from the pax, you won't be paid sitting and doing nothing.


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## Ububu (Jun 17, 2015)

Micmac said:


> View attachment 13760


+1

Ignore the troll


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## pasadenauber (Jan 16, 2015)

I remembered tuber was accused of doing the same but as pax,, awww sweet poetic justice..

http://time.com/3102548/lyft-uber-cancelling-rides/


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## UberNow (Sep 12, 2015)

sidewazzz said:


> While i havent read eveything... i will say this. You're foolish to think Uber doesnt track something. Just because it doesnt show or you havent been "talked to" doesnt mean they dont know about it.
> 
> Billion dollar companies track EVERYTHING down to what you eat. They probably record your phone calls and have certain triggers that get them flagged.
> 
> So dispite it being or not being in the agreement.... it happens.


This is absolutely true. People are naive to think they are not tracked.


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## UberNow (Sep 12, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Nope. According to my partner agreement I am paid by my passenger.
> Uber is just a third party payer...
> and I pay Uber.


Sure but they have the power to deactivate you (fired)!


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

glados said:


> These cancellations are indeed tracked by Uber, even though they may not show on the driver trip report. The rider will also see the cancellation in their history.
> 
> Please don't be misled by "advice" claiming that these cancellations will not be actioned on by Uber. Remember, you are fully responsible for actions taken on your account.


Time for glados and me to share a crow dinner. I just did the experiment with a fellow driver. I was the rider and videotaped my phone. There was nothing onerous about getting this "proof".

glados was right. The skipping driver info came up, but it vanished quickly and the re-request went out.

I Sacto Burbs was right. The skipped driver was NOT in the rider history. The second driver (on whom I cancelled very quickly) was.

*THERE IS NO HISTORY OF THE SKIP.* Glados was using scare tactics and trying to get us to let the ping expire - so Uber would have a record of it. Do not let the ping expire.

*Uber skipping On !*


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

UberNow said:


> Sure but they have the power to deactivate you (fired)!


Sure Uber has the power to deactivate me. As an independent contractor, I consider it losing a vendor. In the meantime I have a business that I do not need an app to run. Thank you, Uber!


----------



## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)




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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberNow said:


> Sure but they have the power to deactivate you (fired)!


And you have the power to file complaints with your state labor board, and file a civil claim for damages due to breach of contract.

Uber's legal problem in the US is that their 'Partner Agreement' says one thing, their policies say another and the laws and regulations say something else.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> You're an independent contractor, Uber can deactivate you for any reason they want unless it is somehow a violation of your civil rights (race, ethnicity, etc.)


That would only be true if Uber didn't enter into a 'Partner Agreement' with its Independent Contractors that specifies the terms of the agreement. As Uber is learning the hard way, in court, when they deactivate a driver, they can be held liable for terminating an 'employee'.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> That would only be true if Uber didn't enter into a 'Partner Agreement' with its Independent Contractors that specifies the terms of the agreement. As Uber is learning the hard way, in court, when they deactivate a driver, they can be held liable for terminating an 'employee'.


Regardless, Uber can deactivate a partner at any time, for any reason.

The court cases that Uber has lost have only applied to unemployment benefits, and only in California. They don't set any precedent. In fact, Uber has prevailed in similar cases in other states, including Texas.

The other cases have not yet been decided.

You entered into the "Partner Agreement." Can't you 'resign' whenever you want? Why shouldn't Uber also have the same opportunity to 'resign' from you?

I'm not drinking the Uber Kool-Aid. Only being a Devil's Advocate since I have a great deal of business experience in using IC's. Admittedly, Cali and Texas are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to labor laws, rules and regulations. (although, based on the number of Californians moving to Texas, I expect we'll be Californicated soon  )

Edit: changed 'Worker's compensation' to 'unemployment benefits.'


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

KeJorn said:


> Kelly was before my time, but now I have a new hero...


Read all of the _*Pogo*_ that you can find. .....ya' know, come to think of it, that is a *third* thing on which my father and I agree. Dad and I do not agree on much, but we do agree on:

1. The Red Sox
2. Bugs Bunny

and now

3. Pogo.



Michael - Cleveland said:


> Without Walt Kelly, it's hard to imagine that Gary Trudeau's Doonesbury would have been what it was...


I would have to agree. He had his admirers and critics, both. Rarely did he shy from controversy. Kelly was the better of the two, but as Doonesbury was more in my time, I did get more from it---not unusual since I lived through that at which he poked fun. To be sure, I could and did read about that at which Kelly poked fun, but I did not live through the events that inspired Kelly in the same way that I lived through those that inspired Trudeau.



Michael - Cleveland said:


> Uber's legal problem in the US is that their 'Partner Agreement' says one thing, their policies say another and the laws and regulations say something else.


.....could this be the point at which Uber will have to pay for its historic and repeated ignoring of laws and even its own statements?



Michael - Cleveland said:


> As Uber is learning the hard way, in court, when they deactivate a driver, they can be held liable for terminating an 'employee'.


While there are certainly other consequences in states where you must have a reason to terminate an employee, other than the payment of unemployment benefits, are there any consequences to a TNC's "terminating an employee" in an employment-at-will state? Oddly enough, the District of Columbia is an "employment at will" state. The Department of Employment Services adjudicatory entity is pro-employee in the awarding of benefits and anti-employer when it comes to determining "cause" (dismissal-for-cause will bar you from unemployment benefits, here).



Old Rocker said:


> You entered into the "Partner Agreement." Can't you 'resign' whenever you want? Why shouldn't Uber also have the same opportunity to 'resign' from you?


That works in an employment-at-will state. In a state that does not have that rule, it does not work so well.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

glados said:


> *Do I have the right to choose which requests I take?*
> Yes. You are free to choose which requests you accept, however excessively low acceptance ratings and/or driver cancellation can result in waitlisting and permanent deactivation.


This says "Yes we have a right to choose requests, however really we don't"


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Regardless, Uber can deactivate a partner at any time, for any reason.
> 
> The court cases that Uber has lost have only applied to worker's compensation, and only in California. They don't set any precedent. In fact, Uber has prevailed in similar cases in other states, including Texas.


The Florida and CA cases were not about worker's comp (there were no worker's comp claims in either of those - worker's comp provides insurance coverage for those injured on the job). Both of the cases were about Worker Classification -
and I know that at least the CA case awarded EXPENSES... in addition to unemployment benefits. I don't recall if the FL case awarded expenses or not.



> You entered into the "Partner Agreement." Can't you 'resign' whenever you want?


Yes, because indentured servitude was outlawed in this country 150 years ago (this Dec 6th) by the 13th amendment. 
No one can force you to work for anyone else.


> Why shouldn't Uber also have the same opportunity to 'resign' from you?


Because when a company REQUIRES a worker to enter into a contract (agreement) which specifies the terms and conditions of the relationship, they are also required to abide by the terms of that agreement - and the terms must be reasonable for both parties and there cannot be a disparity between the terms in favor of the party who drafted the agreement. It's technical - it's legal... and it is all founded in established precedent. This is why Federal Judge Chen's finding that the Uber partner agreements is (I can't remember his exact words at the moment) one-sided in favor of Uber is so important.


> I'm not drinking the Uber Kool-Aid. Only being a Devil's Advocate


That's cool - I do it all the time... only way to be fair and come to understand the nuances of any situation.


> Admittedly, Cali and Texas are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to labor laws, rules and regulations.


Not an issue... in the end, these are FEDERAL matters that in the end will be resolved by the federal courts, the Supreme Court - or Congress.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> .....could this be the point at which Uber will have to pay for its historic and repeated ignoring of laws and even its own statements?


I think we're probably still a long way from that be'universal'... right now it's till case-by-case.
But you never know with courts and politicians.


> ...other than the payment of unemployment benefits, are there any consequences to a TNC's "terminating an employee" in an employment-at-will state?


EXPENSES! (as awarded in CA)


> That works in an employment-at-will state. In a state that does not have that rule, it does not work so well.


While many claims are being adjudicated on the state level, the big issue of employee classification, is a federal issue.
In general, a company can fire or lay-off a worker 'without cause' (in which case they are liable for unemployment claims, or with 'cause', which relieves them of liability for unemployment... but ALL states have rules and regualations about how an employer must document 'cause'.


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