# **Terminated for Refusing Pax with Aggressive "Service Animal"**



## Black_NYC (Jan 28, 2018)

So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.

I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...

...Uber messages me notifying me that my account has been suspended and is under investigation. A entire two hours later, I get a call from their Investigation Unit about the incident and my side of the story. After I explained what I did for my own safety, the Uber representative (who seemed to defend the pax the entire time) tried to explain to me that I was incorrect simply because the pax mentioned it was a "service animal" (per ADA). She then says that service animals are not trained to attack and should not be caged (which all makes sense - but she wasn't there to assess the situation of this aggressive dog). She says that they need to speak to the pax before a decision can be made. I said sorry, I should have taken it under her circumstances.

In NYC pax would often order the more fare heavy Black cars for their acclaimed "service" pets since regular X drivers generally drive by and cancel. If it was a smaller friendly dog, I'd have no problem taking it and have done so countless times for others. So...45 hours later - I get a email from Uber stating my rights to drive with them have been revoked, indefinitely with no way to dispute the decision.

It's so unfair to get deactivated for these alleged "service animals" - especially on my first "offense" where the dog made me feel unsafe as a driver. Since the representative clearly wasn't on my side, is there any way to get reinstated? Such a shame to end my good streak with the company. I always kept my car clean and treated their customers with the ultimate care/respect...and lost it all. And of course, Uber's policy would give him $25 for this "inconvenience" - while I'm on the street now...empty.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


I'm willing to bet if you just accepted the dog in the first place the dog wouldn't bark or wouldnt be aggressive and you wouldn't be in the situation you find yourself now. I've been doing this for 4 years and been driving a taxi for 15 and I've never had a problem with Animals ever . I accept every animal that gets in my car without question, I like them they like me . dogs can sense these things that's why they bark when you put out those kinds of vibes, I think you are the problem.


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## Bkeddie (Nov 10, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> I'm willing to bet if you just accepted the dog in the first place the dog wouldn't bark or wouldnt be aggressive and you wouldn't be in the situation you find yourself now. I've been doing this for 4 years and been driving a taxi for 15 and I've never had a problem with Animals ever . I accept every animal that gets in my car without question, I like them they like me . dogs can sense these things that's why they bark when you put out those kinds of vibes, I think you are the problem.


I have been a driver for 11 years and been around this industry for about 25 years. That being said I know plenty of drivers who have been attacked. They need to pass a law to certify these dogs. If he took this dog and it attacked him and he god forbid hit a pedestrian and killed someone then what? I know drivers that have had accidents while being bitten and then the passenger hops out and walks away and uber provides no information.

If he has a luxury car he should go to a real base and drive real professionals and forget this app shit.


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## unitxero (Jul 10, 2016)

Black_NYC said:


> Story.


https://www.uber.com/drive/new-york/resources/appeals/

Here you go brother, in NYC we have people fighting for drivers rights. They will help you.

https://drivingguild.org/uberdeactivated/


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## Driver2448 (Mar 8, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that. Switch to Lyft if that's an option for you.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

It is easier for them to just break off one driver than have to deal with another lawsuit. They certainly do not hide their zero-tolerance service dog policy; I've received multiple emails on it. Once you rejected the dog, I think your best bet would have been to lie and b.s. even if that goes against your nature. Drivers must learn to play certain games to survive in this gig unfortunately. Unless you were recorded or a habitual dog-denier, how would they know in a he-said, he-said? It sounds like you basically gave them all they needed to deactivate you during your phone "interrogation". Like talking to thr police with no lawyer. Sorry. That is unfortunate.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Bkeddie said:


> I have been a driver for 11 years and been around this industry for about 25 years. That being said I know plenty of drivers who have been attacked. They need to pass a law to certify these dogs. If he took this dog and it attacked him and he god forbid hit a pedestrian and killed someone then what? I know drivers that have had accidents while being bitten and then the passenger hops out and walks away and uber provides no information.
> 
> If he has a luxury car he should go to a real base and drive real professionals and forget this app shit.


I've been a driver for a total of 19 years, 15 as a taxi and 4 as Uber, off an on, dating back to 1977, not one problem with a dog, ever.

I guess some don't have the knack for animals, animals know when they are not wanted, they sense it and react, and if that's who you are, you shouldn't be driving for an outfit like Uber. As a cabbie, you have more leeway. Uber is much stricter.


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## Black_NYC (Jan 28, 2018)

unitxero said:


> Here you go brother, in NYC we have people fighting for drivers rights. They will help you.


Thanks for the info! I'll reach out to them first thing tomorrow. It's nice to know I'm not alone.



Oscar Levant said:


> I've been a driver for a total of 19 years, 15 as a taxi and 4 as Uber, off an on, dating back to 1977, not one problem with a dog, ever.
> 
> I guess some don't have the knack for animals, animals know when they are not wanted, they sense it and react, and if that's who you are, you shouldn't be driving for an outfit like Uber. As a cabbie, you have more leeway. Uber is much stricter.


I always take dogs and little cats. This one was larger than what I was comfortable with -- given the pax's attitude and the reaction of the dog, it really steered me away. If the gentleman was blind or in fact really appeared to need the animal, I would gladly have transported them. The ADA is way too vague about disclaiming what is a "service animal" (a topic in and of its own).


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Submit your dash cam system footage of the dog being aggressive (I'm assuming that he did more than a bark as that bark could have been to alert his handler that he was getting upset). If the dog was actually being aggressive, you show them the footage of it, then you point out that by not only ADA but also by Uber policy about not taking a dangerous passenger ("My rider made me feel unsafe" in the partner help section) you were following proper policy in not taking it. 

You may have to wait a day or two while they review the footage (do Lyft in the mean time) and see that the dog really was aggressive. It's sad that they can't just take your word for it, but this site has proven there are idiots who are willing to lie. Once they see the footage though (assuming the dog really was being aggressive), then they'll have to reinstate you (or as SuzeCB always points out, you start a lawsuit against the pax for lost income, which will result in Uber being subpoenaed).

Now, if for some reason all the dog did was bark (again, could have been an alert), then you may not have enough evidence. And if for some reason you don't have a dash cam system, well then you may have really torpedoed yourself (seriously people, always have a dash cam system, THIS is only one of a million reasons why).


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

If you are driving Black in NYC, you have all the credentials to drive private customers. You couldn't possibly have been making more on app than you were off, were you?

Or were You doing UberBlack only and didnt develop private clients?


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Black_NYC said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll reach out to them first thing tomorrow. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
> 
> I always take dogs and little cats. This one was larger than what I was comfortable with -- given the pax's attitude and the reaction of the dog, it really steered me away. If the gentleman was blind or in fact really appeared to need the animal, I would gladly have transported them. The ADA is way too vague about disclaiming what is a "service animal" (a topic in and of its own).


One way to approach it is to look at it as a gamble. You can accept or reject the dog, and my bet is that rejecting the dog will create a problem far worse than the likelihood the dog is going to be a problem.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

You could sue the PAX for defamation. Let's see that dog in court barking at the judge.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

I used to play hardball when it came to dogs, now I see a dog, I treat them better than the pax and just roll with it. Sorry that happened to you, what is trendy sticks and service animals is "in" right now FAKE or not, basically the dog can do whatever it wants which includes being aggressive and for anyone to go against what is "in" gets the cut.

I had someone ask me to watch their dog while they shopped, naturally I was like oh hell no (in my mind), but I knew what the reality was if I didn't a low rating and whatever else. I actually enjoyed chilling out with the dog and just did not think about the time wasted

Have to remember, these complaints are coming across the desk of techs that more than likely do not venture outside and if they do they are on their phones, they are not plugged into the reality of things.


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## Phantomshark (Jan 21, 2018)

It’s a shame that service dogs don’t have to be licensed as such, by a reputable organization that can be held accountable. But lacking that, you can only take passengers word for it, and then sue the hell out of them if something happens to prove it’s not a service dog. In the meantime, by refusing the dog you got exactly what Uber promised would happen if you refused one, but they really don’t have a choice either, they have to deactivate you to avoid legal problems for themselves


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Phantomshark said:


> It's a shame that service dogs don't have to be licensed as such, by a reputable organization that can be held accountable. But lacking that, you can only take passengers word for it, and then sue the hell out of them if something happens to prove it's not a service dog. In the meantime, by refusing the dog you got exactly what Uber promised would happen if you refused one, but they really don't have a choice either, they have to deactivate you to avoid legal problems for themselves


It is a shit show, no doubt.


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## htboston (Feb 22, 2016)

Vote for me for president of U.S. in 2020 and I will ban service animals (especially therapy animals) forever. I'll let survival of the fittest finish off these weak people and free their "service" animals from a life of misery.

DILLY DILLY!


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Too much honesty. Best bet when u deny an aggrieved class is immediately report them to uber that they called you a **** queer fairy for arriving late and you terminated for offensive hate speech. You were too shocked to notice a dog.


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## RynoHawk (Mar 15, 2017)

Good luck. But as you found out, the law is not on your side here. Until the law changes (if that ever happens) it's always best to just suck it up and take it. This is even if you strike out on your own as others have suggested. The difference being that there's no Uber to deactivate you, but you can be sued directly and have your business license revoked.


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## Extraholes (Mar 11, 2017)

So he never told you what service the dog preforms? Did Uber tell you what service the dog preforms? If not, than sue Uber


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## Telsa34 (May 7, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


A dash cam would have probably protected you


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Extraholes said:


> So he never told you what service the dog preforms? Did Uber tell you what service the dog preforms? If not, than sue Uber


Sue him for a lifetime of lost rides? Who are you kidding.

The only lawsuits that will help individual uber drivers are class action suits for discriminatory, arbitrary, predatory practices that screw individual drivers.

No individual is going to fork over the hundred grand it takes just to get started suing a corporation.


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## uberxone vegas (Feb 8, 2017)

Telsa34 said:


> A dash cam would have probably protected you


My brother I read the whole thread. I don't think the rider and the dog got in the car. Unless they got in the car a dash cam can't help here. The driver saw a dog taking a shi& and later found out that the owner of that dog is his rider .The driver contacted the rider and asked the rider if that was a service dog and when he told him yes...he didn't believe that was a service dog when the dog started barking at him. Service dogs never bark. I have met humans with services dogs and service dogs never bark at all maybe their humans owners do bark but not service dogs.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

uberxone vegas said:


> My brother I read the whole thread. I don't think the rider and the dog got in the car. Unless they got in the car a dash cam can't help here. The driver saw a dog taking a shi& and later found out that the owner of that dog is his rider .The driver contacted the rider and asked the rider if that was a service dog and when he told him yes...he didn't believe that was a service dog when the dog started barking at him. Service dogs never bark. I have met humans with services dogs and service dogs never bark at all maybe their humans owners do bark but not service dogs.


If you have a Falcon 360, you can angle the camera out the side of the vehicle. I've done this if I have a lone female that's drunk and stumbling to their front door. This way, I have video of her entering her home safely as I drive away. The same can be done with potential service animal fraud. I've seen two videos from the same UP.net user on this forum of how he handled 2 fake service dog requests, recorded it and is still an active driver.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

If the dog barked at you and not to get help for it's handler, it was not a service animal.

Sue the pax for slander and defamation of character and loss at


uberxone vegas said:


> My brother I read the whole thread. I don't think the rider and the dog got in the car. Unless they got in the car a dash cam can't help here. The driver saw a dog taking a shi& and later found out that the owner of that dog is his rider .The driver contacted the rider and asked the rider if that was a service dog and when he told him yes...he didn't believe that was a service dog when the dog started barking at him. Service dogs never bark. I have met humans with services dogs and service dogs never bark at all maybe their humans owners do bark but not service dogs.


Exactly. They CAN bark (they're dogs, after all), but when on-duty they WON'T unless it's part of their task (to alert someone to help their unconscious or seizing handler, for example).

Additionally, even a legitimate service dog ceases to be one if the owner trains or encourages any sort of aggressive tasks. Even the ones trained to help maintain personal space do it by presenting the side of their bodies as the barrier. Never a threatening stance.


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## JTTwentySeven (Jul 13, 2017)

If you let that dog in the car and he bit you, you wouldn't need to drive for Uber anymore. You would have been rich off that lawsuit.


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

And to think there is a simple step Uber could take and can still take. Have every driver select in their app:
[_] I am willing to drive animals
[_] I am not willing to drive animals

On the customer app:
[_] I regularly travel with an animal
[_] I seldom or never travel with an animal.


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## Phantomshark (Jan 21, 2018)

TedInTampa said:


> And to think there is a simple step Uber could take and can still take. Have every driver select in their app:
> [_] I am willing to drive animals
> [_] I am not willing to drive animals
> 
> ...


Excepted if he chose that he's not willing to drive with animals, then he is not allowed to drive. Legally. And having the customer say whether not to travel with an animal would encourage discrimination against service animal users


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

Set it up as a discount/ bonus program. Someone with a service animal gets trips without the booking fee. Drivers with a service animal fare get an extra 5% of the fare. Now Uber has a work around. Have us have the option of marking a previous fare as having an animal to get the extra 5% (I can already post trip upgrade someone from x to XL).

Send a message to every pax when they open their app that Uber has a new program geared to match service animal passengers with drivers who enjoy animals and even sheepishly mention that too many drivers with animal fears have caused issues in the past. "We would rather match you with the 2nd closest car now rather than have the closest cancel on you and have you wait for a different car."

I love having animals in my van. I usually get tipped by grateful customers. I've made several trips to and from the vet's office for non service animals.

This would also help with the drivers who have pet allergies or children with pet allergies.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

If we must follow taxi rules, we need to get taxi pay.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

TedInTampa said:


> Set it up as a discount/ bonus program. Someone with a service animal gets trips without the booking fee. Drivers with a service animal fare get an extra 5% of the fare. Now Uber has a work around. Have us have the option of marking a previous fare as having an animal to get the extra 5% (I can already post trip upgrade someone from x to XL).
> 
> Send a message to every pax when they open their app that Uber has a new program geared to match service animal passengers with drivers who enjoy animals and even sheepishly mention that too many drivers with animal fears have caused issues in the past. "We would rather match you with the 2nd closest car now rather than have the closest cancel on you and have you wait for a different car."
> 
> ...


Uber doesnt need a work around. The law says you have to take service animals. Why pay you more to follow the law? Either follow the law or risk deactivation.

Doesnt matter how many drivers are sheepish

Doesnt matter how many drivers fear animals

Any reduction in available drivers will increase their wait time. An increase of wait time will be viewed as providing lower quality service to those with service animals. If the first driver cancels on them for having a service animal, that driver should be fired. If uber admits that drivers are doing this, they become liable for their actions. Theyve already paid millions to settle this, they arent going to pay millions more.

Rideshare isnt the first industry, nor the last, that have tried to figure out loop holes for ADA compliance. Billions of dollars have been spent on compliance since its introduction. Countless business have shut down due to inability to comply. Your transportation service business will be no exemption.

Youre only option is to take the servuce animal, dont and risk deactivation or get a job where you are not required to be in close proximity to service animals to perform your paid duties.



osii said:


> If we must follow taxi rules, we need to get taxi pay.


This aint a taxi rule, this is a federal law regulating business and their compliance with the ADA act. It affects all businesses, not just taxis, rideshare or transportation industries in general.

Its unfortunate and I hate overbearing laws but a part of me understands the necessity.


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

That would have been nice if the dog bite him. Then he could have gotten a cleaning fee!


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

While you could technically offer a discount to service dog handlers, that would likely increase the number of fakes, not decrease it. Think about it, you're Joe Dogowner and you hear that if you have a "service dog" you don't pay the fee.. I'd like to think most people do the honorable thing and not lie, but we all know too well that many would lie and say it's a "service dog" not even just to get you to take it, but so they can avoid the fee. 

That would only enhance the problem, not help it. You couldn't give drivers the option at all (as many have pointed out). Also you mention a fear of dogs, that's the second most commonly used excuse (after allergies) and is also specifically listed in the ADA as not being a reason to deny a service dog. 

Bottom line, the ADA has already considered all this and has actually given you the tools to best combat fakes (although so few people use them). 1. Is this a service animal for a disability? 2. What tasks does it perform? As most have said, the simplest solution is to just take it, but, if you wish to be sure, this is what you are legally allowed to ask (and you'll find it will get most of the fakers).

There are 2 types of fakers. Those who don't even realize they are faking (the ESA handlers who think emotional support is a task, when it's not). And the ones who are intentionally faking because they don't give a crap. The ESA fakers are actually the easiest to catch. Because they don't know any better, they actually say "emotional support" when asked about the tasks, which when caught on your dash cam gives you your out. The other fakers often aren't prepared with an answer for #2 at all, and can't come up with a reasonable task. The few who are prepared, well, you'll have to take them (unless of course the dog isn't behaving right).

That really is your best (and legal) defense.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

So if the owner was lying (and having no other evidence, I choose to assume he was for now), the dog needs to die because the owner is a moron? That makes no sense, and you should frankly be ashamed of yourself for even posting such nonsense. I'm not supporting revenge, but if you must have it, take it against the owner who lied, not the dog.


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

Pawtism said:


> So if the owner was lying (and having no other evidence, I choose to assume he was for now), the dog needs to die because the owner is a moron? That makes no sense, and you should frankly be ashamed of yourself for even posting such nonsense. I'm not supporting revenge, but if you must have it, take it against the owner who lied, not the dog.


Are you physcopath? The pax may have been a jerk, but I am definitely not going to suggest he murders the pax over this. What happened doesn't justify the taking of a human life. On the other hand the dog was the source of the problem, and taking him out would both teach pax a lesson and keep this from happening to other drivers. I am definitely not going to suggest he kills the pax though, that would be crazy. I will also not suggest he beats up pax, because pax is probably a self-centered jerk who will hire a crooked doctor to give over inflated medical bills and then sue the driver and try to throw everything on the book against him, causing him more financial burder and legal problems. Even if driver abushes him and wears a mask its a much bigger legal risk then getting caught taking the dog out.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Welsh Shepard said:


> Are you physcopath? The pax may have been a jerk, but I am definitely not going to suggest he murders the pax over this. What happened doesn't justify the taking of a human life. On the other hand the dog was the source of the problem, and taking him out would both teach pax a lesson and keep this from happening to other drivers. I am definitely not going to suggest he kills the pax though, that would be crazy. I will also not suggest he beats up pax, because pax is probably a self-centered jerk who will hire a crooked doctor to give over inflated medical bills and then sue the driver and try to throw everything on the book against him, causing him more financial burder and legal problems. Even if driver abushes him and wears a mask its a much bigger legal risk then getting caught taking the dog out.


I'm not even sure how to respond to that... I suppose all I can say is "You're asking ME if I'm a psychopath (correct spelling) when you're the one who jumped right to killing things?"


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

TedInTampa said:


> And to think there is a simple step Uber could take and can still take. Have every driver select in their app:
> [_] I am willing to drive animals
> [_] I am not willing to drive animals
> 
> ...


Illegal for service animals.



osii said:


> If we must follow taxi rules, we need to get taxi pay.


In my area, believe it or not, Uber driver's make more than the average cab driver. Not counting OL plates, of course.



Pawtism said:


> While you could technically offer a discount to service dog handlers, that would likely increase the number of fakes, not decrease it. Think about it, you're Joe Dogowner and you hear that if you have a "service dog" you don't pay the fee.. I'd like to think most people do the honorable thing and not lie, but we all know too well that many would lie and say it's a "service dog" not even just to get you to take it, but so they can avoid the fee.
> 
> That would only enhance the problem, not help it. You couldn't give drivers the option at all (as many have pointed out). Also you mention a fear of dogs, that's the second most commonly used excuse (after allergies) and is also specifically listed in the ADA as not being a reason to deny a service dog.
> 
> ...


And if they tell you one task, but you think they may be lying, ask them for the second task. Service Animals are not covered under the ADA unless they have been fully trained to do TWO tasks to aid their handler. You also need to check the laws in your area. Some states/counties/municipalities have expanded on the law to include animals still in training for that second task, or Estas.

Here's the thing with ESAs, though.... it's not about the animal, but about the owner, and if they are going to play the card to get access for their ESA (if access is mandated), they DO have to carry a note from a qualified doctor on proper letterhead or Rx sheet, with ORIGINAL signature, stating they have been properly examined and the doctor has determined they have a need for an ESA (though not why). Most of these fake certification places send "documentation" for the animal, not the person.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Welsh Shepard said:


> Are you physcopath? The pax may have been a jerk, but I am definitely not going to suggest he murders the pax over this. What happened doesn't justify the taking of a human life. On the other hand the dog was the source of the problem, and taking him out would both teach pax a lesson and keep this from happening to other drivers. I am definitely not going to suggest he kills the pax though, that would be crazy. I will also not suggest he beats up pax, because pax is probably a self-centered jerk who will hire a crooked doctor to give over inflated medical bills and then sue the driver and try to throw everything on the book against him, causing him more financial burder and legal problems. Even if driver abushes him and wears a mask its a much bigger legal risk then getting caught taking the dog out.


Budding psychopaths are known to start by murdering animals.

Pawtism never suggested to murder the owner. Killing is all coming from you. It was merely stated that any revenge should be taken to the owner, who lied, rather than the dog, who is just being a dog. To suggest killing that animal because it inconvenienced you is pathetic. The fact that you immediately though killing the owner is the only form of revenge is even more troubling.

Revenge could be as simple as taking a shit in a paper bag, lighting it on fire at his door step and ringing the door bell. Youre the one thinking about killing living things.


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> Budding psychopaths are know to start by murdering animals.
> 
> Pawtism never suggested to murder the owner. Killing is all coming from you. It wa merely stated that any revenge should be taken to the owner, whomloed, rather than the dog, who is just being a dog. To suggest killing that animal because it inconvenienced you is pathetic. The fact that you immediately though killing the owner is the only form of revenge is even more troubling.
> 
> Revenge could be as simple as takong a shit in a paper bag, lighting it on fire at his door step and ringing the door bell. Youre the one thinking about killing living things.


I not talking about torturing random animals for fun, I talking about punishing pax by removing property of his that he can't handle. Don't twist things.


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## BlackTruth (Dec 17, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


You sound like the American Police force! You accept a position knowing what the job entails. Then you claim to be scared or afraid to do the job you accepted. Let me guess, if it were a big "fluffy" white dog, you would have been ok with the ride?
Hopefully, you will get de-activated permanently for your ignorance of the law.


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

BlackTruth said:


> You sound like the American Police force! You accept a position knowing what the job entails. Then you claim to be scared or afraid to do the job you accepted. Let me guess, if it were a big "fluffy" white dog, you would have been ok with the ride?
> Hopefully, you will get de-activated permanently for your ignorance of the law.


You would rather have him got bitten instead? Since when is a cabbie a transporter of animals? That is not the job. Only reason this is a problem is because of fascist like laws of Western states dealing with assitance animals and people abusing those laws. It's obivous this dog was not a support animal but the pet of an idiot who doesn't know how to train a dog.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Welsh Shepard said:


> I not talking about torturing random animals for fun, I talking about punishing pax by removing property of his that he can't handle. Don't twist things.


Sounds like youre having plenty of fun. You have zero authority to remove anyones property much less kill an animal.

Either way you are advocating criminal activity and your inner psychopath is showing.


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> Sounds like youre having plenty of fun. You have zero authority to remove anyones property much less kill an animal.
> 
> Either way you are advocating criminal activity and your inner psychopath is showing.


Did he have right to threaten a person with an aggresive dog, curse at him and unjustly take away a source of income? Perhaps your the psycopath with your blind self-centerness and inability to care for other people? A driver was basically threanted, but in a hostile stituation and was unjustly lost a source of income he had, that others may have been relient on. Where is your sense of sympathy for your fellow Uber driver?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


Hope the dog bites and sue heavily !



Welsh Shepard said:


> Did he have right to threaten a person with an aggresive dog, curse at him and unjustly take away a source of income? Perhaps your the psycopath with your blind self-centerness and inability to care for other people? A driver was basically threanted, but in a hostile stituation and was unjustly lost a source of income he had, that others may have been relient on. Where is your sense of sympathy for your fellow Uber driver?


Will you be renting your car now ?


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Hope the dog bites and sue heavily !


Is that how bad it has gotten for Uber drivers? First they hope someone vomitd so they can get a clean up fee. Now they hope to be mauled by a dog so they can get a law suit.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Welsh Shepard said:


> Is that how bad it has gotten for Uber drivers? First they hope someone vomitd so they can get a clean up fee. Now they hope to be mauled by a dog so they can get a law suit.


" it is what it is".

# sidehustle


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Hope the dog bites and sue heavily !
> 
> Will you be renting your car now ?


It didn't happen to me. I don't know what OP will do with his vehicle. Remember in New York City they have Lyft, Gett, Juno, and Via as well for ridehare.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Welsh Shepard said:


> It didn't happen to me. I don't know what OP will do with his vehicle. Remember in New York City they have Lyft, Gett, Juno, and Via as well for ridehare.


Should take a year to be Terminated from All of them . . .


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Should take a year to be Terminated from All of them . . .


Hopefully for him he is able to keep his other accounts open. Maybe he is in livery or can get into it if not already to make up for loss business.


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## BlackTruth (Dec 17, 2017)

Welsh Shepard said:


> You would rather have him got bitten instead? Since when is a cabbie a transporter of animals? That is not the job. Only reason this is a problem is because of fascist like laws of Western states dealing with assitance animals and people abusing those laws. It's obivous this dog was not a support animal but the pet of an idiot who doesn't know how to train a dog.


Yes. I would rather this driver got bitten. Time for some black truth (sometimes it hurts); you see folks, IF the driver would have gotten bitten, that would have been proof the animal WAS NOT a service animal but an aggressive pet. Your dash cam would have shown all of this evidence. Also, why did you not post your footage of the dog being aggressive towards you? I had the same exact thing happen to me, but the dog was white (lol, i think). I caught it all on my dash cam and sent it to app. Never even got deactivated. Your opening gave you away. You were inferring that you are afraid of big "Black" dogs. You also infer that black is synonymous with aggressive. YOU SHOULD BE DEACTIVATED PERMANENTLY! No sympathy here. goodbye.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

If that were me I'd hope to get bitten. That would be a big lawsuit that would bankrupt the dog owner. Wouldn't need to do Uber anymore



TedInTampa said:


> And to think there is a simple step Uber could take and can still take. Have every driver select in their app:
> [_] I am willing to drive animals
> [_] I am not willing to drive animals
> 
> ...


To get around the ADA laws, perhaps it could be mentioned in the fine print that people with legitimate service dogs do not need to answer this question. Most of them will answer honestly.


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

BlackTruth said:


> Yes. I would rather this driver got bitten. Time for some black truth (sometimes it hurts); you see folks, IF the driver would have gotten bitten, that would have been proof the animal WAS NOT a service animal but an aggressive pet. Your dash cam would have shown all of this evidence. Also, why did you not post your footage of the dog being aggressive towards you? I had the same exact thing happen to me, but the dog was white (lol, i think). I caught it all on my dash cam and sent it to app. Never even got deactivated. Your opening gave you away. You were inferring that you are afraid of big "Black" dogs. You also infer that black is synonymous with aggressive. YOU SHOULD BE DEACTIVATED PERMANENTLY! No sympathy here. goodbye.


I see you have the IQ somewhere between 75 to 85. I am not the OP, this didn't happen to me. The fact that you wished he got bit tells me there is something mentatly wrong with you.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Revenge could be as simple as taking a shit in a paper bag, lighting it on fire at his door step and ringing the door bell. Youre the one thinking about killing living things.


I suppose I'd endorse a lawsuit against him. Not that I'm endorsing revenge, but if I were to seek it and wanted to take it further, I would probably follow the eye for an eye mantra of finding some policy or law to get him fired from his job. That would be the absolute farthest I'd be willing to take it. I certainly wouldn't kill anyone (or anything) over this.



Welsh Shepard said:


> Since when is a cabbie a transporter of animals? That is not the job.


Since the very first cabbie? We're animals too you know... Transporting animals is literally the job of a cabbie. Just sayin...



Welsh Shepard said:


> Perhaps your the psycopath with your blind self-centerness and inability to care for other people?


Closer this time... It's "psychopath" (think Psycho the movie)... BTW, you've described a sociopath, not a psychopath there... Words are hard...



Welsh Shepard said:


> I see you have the IQ somewhere between 75 to 85.


I'm feeling a story about a pot and a kettle here somewhere....


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Welsh Shepard said:


> Did he have right to threaten a person with an aggresive dog, curse at him and unjustly take away a source of income? Perhaps your the psycopath with your blind self-centerness and inability to care for other people? A driver was basically threanted, but in a hostile stituation and was unjustly lost a source of income he had, that others may have been relient on. Where is your sense of sympathy for your fellow Uber driver?


There was no indication that the dog handler threatened the man with the dog. Dogs bark, my dogs bark but they arent being aggressive. All we have is the OPs side of the story of the dog barking.

It is not the pax nor Uber that ultimately deactivated him, but rather Federal law. You nor the OP knows whether for certain if that dog was fake or real service animal. All we know os it barked and OP was looking for an excuse to leave.

Either way, it does not justify killing the animal.

Two wrongs dont make a right and only a trur psychopath would see killing an animal with a matter.of factneas of "removing someones property" truly shows what you are deep down inside.



Pawtism said:


> I suppose I'd endorse a lawsuit against him. Not that I'm endorsing revenge, but if I were to seek it and wanted to take it further, I would probably follow the eye for an eye mantra of finding some policy or law to get him fired from his job. That would be the absolute farthest I'd be willing to take it. I certainly wouldn't kill anyone (or anything) over this.
> 
> Since the very first cabbie? We're animals too you know... Transporting animals is literally the job of a cabbie. Just sayin...
> 
> ...


That would certainly be the civil form of revenge but I'm just thinking small and quick. Lol.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> That would certainly be the civil form of revenge but I'm just thinking small and quick. Lol.


Oh I know hehe, thanks. 

Just trying to give him a more in depth example of seeking revenge without killing anyone or anything (since that seems foreign to him).


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> I'm willing to bet if you just accepted the dog in the first place the dog wouldn't bark or wouldnt be aggressive and you wouldn't be in the situation you find yourself now. I've been doing this for 4 years and been driving a taxi for 15 and I've never had a problem with Animals ever . I accept every animal that gets in my car without question, I like them they like me . dogs can sense these things that's why they bark when you put out those kinds of vibes, I think you are the problem.


Its NOT about that

Real service animals are obedient, never bark, and dont shit on curbs



Dropking said:


> Too much honesty. Best bet when u deny an aggrieved class is immediately report them to uber that they called you a **** queer fairy for arriving late and you terminated for offensive hate speech. You were too shocked to notice a dog.


Dont forget they yelled "go back to your country (and/or Africa, depending on circumstances)" and spat on your bumper


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

BlackTruth said:


> Yes. I would rather this driver got bitten. Time for some black truth (sometimes it hurts); you see folks, IF the driver would have gotten bitten, that would have been proof the animal WAS NOT a service animal but an aggressive pet. Your dash cam would have shown all of this evidence. Also, why did you not post your footage of the dog being aggressive towards you? I had the same exact thing happen to me, but the dog was white (lol, i think). I caught it all on my dash cam and sent it to app. Never even got deactivated. Your opening gave you away. You were inferring that you are afraid of big "Black" dogs. You also infer that black is synonymous with aggressive. YOU SHOULD BE DEACTIVATED PERMANENTLY! No sympathy here. goodbye.


He likely meant it didnt look like no German Shepherd nor any other variety commonly used for service dogs


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## Telsa34 (May 7, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> If you have a Falcon 360, you can angle the camera out the side of the vehicle. I've done this if I have a lone female that's drunk and stumbling to their front door. This way, I have video of her entering her home safely as I drive away. The same can be done with potential service animal fraud. I've seen two videos from the same UP.net user on this forum of how he handled 2 fake service dog requests, recorded it and is still an active driver.


You would also have the audio for a record all the evidence that you can gather is always going to do you some good whether it's good enough or not will be later decided


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## Coca-Cola (Oct 11, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


Pets are considered as family members in 21st century. If you are willing to drive anyone, you should be willing to drive pets too, because they are one of us.

I find it more enjoyable driving pets around than humans. They put a smile on my face every time.
Unlike humans, animals don't judge you and they love everyone around them.
You should learn to love them.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

uberxone vegas said:


> My brother I read the whole thread. I don't think the rider and the dog got in the car. Unless they got in the car a dash cam can't help here. The driver saw a dog taking a shi& and later found out that the owner of that dog is his rider .The driver contacted the rider and asked the rider if that was a service dog and when he told him yes...he didn't believe that was a service dog when the dog started barking at him. Service dogs never bark. I have met humans with services dogs and service dogs never bark at all maybe their humans owners do bark but not service dogs.


Correctly trained service dogs do not bark at people unless that is what they are specifically trained to do. Unfortunately this will take much more investigative powers than can be practiced on a drivers forum.

For example, in some states the person who needs the animal is allowed to self train. Good luck on getting those people to adhere to best practices.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

somedriverguy said:


> Correctly trained service dogs do not bark at people unless that is what they are specifically trained to do. Unfortunately this will take much more investigative powers than can be practiced on a drivers forum.
> 
> For example, in some states the person who needs the animal is allowed to self train. Good luck on getting those people to adhere to best practices.


In EVERY state (in the US of course) the handler is allows to self train (just to set the record straight). In most states (about 2/3rds of them) service dogs in training still count for public access by state laws (even though the ADA doesn't specifically cover them directly).

But your point that it would take more investigative power than we can muster on this forum (to determine if it was a real service dog) is spot on.


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## freeFromUber (Mar 1, 2016)

Black_NYC said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll reach out to them first thing tomorrow. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
> 
> I always take dogs and little cats. This one was larger than what I was comfortable with -- given the pax's attitude and the reaction of the dog, it really steered me away. If the gentleman was blind or in fact really appeared to need the animal, I would gladly have transported them. The ADA is way too vague about disclaiming what is a "service animal" (a topic in and of its own).


You screwed yourself when you said "sorry, I should have taken her under the circumstances." Case closed. Bad response, dude.


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## stpetej (Jul 3, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


I'm an animal lover, involved in rescue, fostering (though I usually end up keeping them) and an activist for animal welfare. That said, you did the right thing. No large (or small) dog is getting in my car while displaying aggressive behavior.

The dog was reacting to the rider's anger. And it was the rider's responsibility to calm his dog down. You were wronged and I'm sorry this happened to you.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

If you lied from the start, like completely... "no dog involved at all", you'd still be driving unless another report was made.

FYI: this pax just got a $25 bounty of ur ass.

2nd point

Black/suv/lux drivers are flat out entitled little *****es. They aren't special at all. Oh big deal, you spent 50k on a car to drive people around. You're still a driver.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> In EVERY state (in the US of course) the handler is allows to self train (just to set the record straight). In most states (about 2/3rds of them) service dogs in training still count for public access by state laws (even though the ADA doesn't specifically cover them directly).
> 
> But your point that it would take more investigative power than we can muster on this forum (to determine if it was a real service dog) is spot on.


So I can go self train my imaginary pitbull to help me cross the road when I'm lost and confused.... and voila, it's an ADA service dog?


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Adieu said:


> So I can go self train my imaginary pitbull to help me cross the road when I'm lost and confused.... and voila, it's an ADA service dog?


Sure, even the outright liars and haters on this forum haven't yet complained about someone's imaginary dog (or friend for that matter). Now that I've said that, someone is going to claim their pax's imaginary friend puked on their seats... Or made out with them... wait.. where is SadUber ? 

Now, on the off chance you were trying to make a point about anyone can train their (actual) dog to be a service dog... If you have a documented disability (see ADA for details on what counts, that would be a very long post in itself, a good rule of thumb is that if you could get SSDI for it, it probably counts) and have an (actual) dog and your disability doesn't preclude you from the hours and hours of training and patience that is required to properly train a dog, then yes, you can train the dog yourself.

Now, there are still guidelines you'll have to meet. First, you have to go through all the basics (sit, stay, come, heel, etc), most dogs can get through that with little trouble. Then you have to task train (a task directly related to your disability), this can take a while and you'll need at least 2 tasks (3 in some states, although most people who self train take pride in it and there are very few actual service dogs with less that 5 tasks, some with many more). During this task training time you will need to start working on public access too (there is a public access test, but it's a bit like golf, you can grade it yourself). Most will film their public access test and put it up on YouTube or something so that they have a dated public record of it.

There are standards too, such as no aggression (the reason this is so important isn't even because they might bite someone walking by or something). Think about this, let's say I have a heart attack, the paramedics (or a bystander) starts CPR on me. Now I'm clearly in distress, the dog will know it, and in thinking it's protecting me, it attacks the person trying to save my life. At that point liability is the last thing that matters because I'm probably going to die now. No Beuno, you know? Don't get me wrong, liability is important, but if that dog has any aggression at all, it's a fail. This is probably the primary reason so many wash out during the training phase.

Assuming you have a disability, the dog passes it's public access test, has at least 2 (sometimes 3) tasks, shows no aggression at all, isn't overly skittish (for obvious reasons), and meets all the other guidelines (No way to go over all of them in a single post), then you have a self trained service dog. As you can tell, it's a ton of work (takes 1-2 years to properly complete all this). Many people's disabilities effectively prohibit them from being able to do it. But those who can take great pride in it.

Now, why do they film and post the public access test (and in many, many cases the task training too)? Well you (and any business) can't ask for documentation (mostly because there is none to give in self training cases), but a court of law can. Let's say you denied my actual service dog, and I reported you, and oops it was your second time, perma deactivation. Then you sue me because you think I was faking the dog. Which of us is right? Well in court the burden of proof will be on you to prove it wasn't a service dog. However, just because I want to make sure there are no issues, I show the court documentation from my doctor that I am disabled (per ADA), and I present the videos of the training and the public access test (YouTube, so the upload dates really can't be questioned). The judge now has zero doubt that my dog is an ADA service dog, and unless my dog was actually misbehaving (and if that was the case I wouldn't have reported you anyway because I would have been embarrassed that my dog was behaving that way), nothing you say to the judge will matter.

BTW, about 50% (maybe more now) of the actual service dogs out there are "self trained" (which can mean by a person other than the disabled person but not a professional dog trainer or program) as opposed to "program dogs" (which usually have a 3+ year wait list).


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Dogs or no dogs? Uber states it has zero tolerance policy towards drivers leaving dogs and owner behind. That a zero tolerance policy and it a good lesson for people to bring like a blanket or something in the back of the car or when they see a dog with the rider just keep on driving don't even interact if you don't want to deal with anyone just say the rider was in an unsafe pick up spot with a police car behind you and would of gotten a ticket.

Have a list of BS excuses on paper for you to recite off and never tell the truth on anything... Think to yourself what will Hillery say?  Uber staff tried to give him a life line to reactivate him he hang himself with the rope. Like who even get uber calling them!!! Like wow most people just get deactivated in a copy and past response. Sorry you have been deactivated. This decision is final. Thank you for your understanding.

Uber would of preferred he got a love bite from the dog and sued instead and you set for life for something that heals in couple of day  If a dog bites you and got a hold of your hand leg or whatever use your free hand and fingers and push the dog eye balls inside and repeat with the other eye most likely one eye will be enough for the dog to back off for a couple of second giving you the opportunity to exit the car and close the door.

Could of told the story of how you got your first million dollars been an uber driver to your grand children or kids even whatever but would be happy days.  Remember say no to a dog you looking down a barrel of a gun already and it a good enough excuse for uber to say goodbye. I'm loving all these uber drivers getting deactivated though. Gives valuable lesson to everyone else but seem to be a dog related deactivation daily... Even despite the thousands of drivers been deactivated over the same thing... Uber drivers don't learn.

Safest thing anyone can do worldwide with Uber with animals... May it be a mouse, rat, cat, dog, monkey, tiger... Just take it and drive.... It not hard and you get to keep your crap job


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## ronscar (Dec 2, 2017)

I think you were entitled to a warning considering it was your word against the riders and your high rating. I think I would have done the same given your description of the animal.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Black_NYC said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll reach out to them first thing tomorrow. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
> 
> I always take dogs and little cats. This one was larger than what I was comfortable with -- given the pax's attitude and the reaction of the dog, it really steered me away. *If the gentleman was blind or in fact really appeared to need the animal,* I would gladly have transported them. The ADA is way too vague about disclaiming what is a "service animal" (a topic in and of its own).


Sorry this happened to you, but I think are a bit late to this argument. It has gone on for a couple of years on this board, and the _appearance_ of needing a _Service Animal_ is the last reason to take one.

You may ask two questions, and two questions only:

Is the dog a trained Service Dog?
What task is it trained to perform?
That's it. If you get a Yes to the first question, you MUST take the Trip with the owner and dog. The second question is simply so you can help facilitate the Service...


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

UberLaLa be another person deactivated on the forum saying he got deactivated for not taking a service animal tomorrow. Uber drivers are not the sharpest tool in the shed 

It one of the most common ways to get deactivated is refusing to take animals around the world. Rider has a chinese panda on a rope walking next to it orders an Uber it going to just fit in the car okay you got to take it since the rider just said it is a service animal and it helps me see even though rider may even have better vision than you  rules are rules and no fighting it.

Who knows that panda might be completely legitimate you got no way of finding out until you are deactivated.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Immoralized said:


> UberLaLa be another person deactivated on the forum saying he got deactivated for not taking a service animal tomorrow. Uber drivers are not the sharpest tool in the shed
> 
> It one of the most common ways to get deactivated is refusing to take animals around the world. Rider has a chinese panda on a rope walking next to it orders an Uber it going to just fit in the car okay you got to take it since the rider just said it is a service animal and it helps me see even though rider may even have better vision than you  rules are rules and no fighting it.
> 
> Who knows that panda might be completely legitimate you got no way of finding out until you are deactivated.


Your first line makes it sound like I have been deactivated...never.

And, notice I consistently used the word 'Dog' - ADA only requires we take Service *DOGS...
*
ADD: So wait a minute, you are in *PERTH? *Get out of here...you don't even live in this country and have ZERO understanding of what you are talking about.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Never said you were deactivated. If rider say yes it is a service animal and in argument that it is a service animal and threatening to report well that dog is a service animal all things considered. Countless times people take matters into their own hands and countless times people been deactivated but it quite enjoyable seeing people in Australia and overseas get deactivated over this because they think they be that one exception that can "get away with it."

UberLaLa if you were deactivated for service animal related issue and the verdict was that you are guilty it be final. Not a three strikes and you are out case it an immediate kick out offence just like sexual assault, drunk driving and dangerous driving. No second chances when found guilty. It not going to be last deactivate of this nature I'm going to see another deactivation thread in America or Australia tomorrow regarding service animal


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Immoralized said:


> Never said you were deactivated. If rider say yes it is a service animal and in argument that it is a service animal and threatening to report well that dog is a service animal all things considered. Countless times people take matters into their own hands and countless times people been deactivated but it quite enjoyable seeing people in Australia and overseas get deactivated over this because they think they be that one exception that can "get away with it."


I have taken EVERY dog that has come my way...I like dogs. I don't ask any questions. Simply informing OP those are the ONLY two questions he can ask in OUR country.

You implied I would be deactivated and 'not the sharpest' tool in the shed. No worries...especially coming from an _NLR newbie._


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

I wasn't saying you  I was saying uber drivers in general world wide which is around 2 million active drivers. But whatever the world revolves around you okay. You are the only uber driver in the world. I'm sorry you found the post offensive towards you and you thought I was "targeting you".

I don't know what you even on I was just adding onto what you were saying about how general uber drivers mistake the importance and disregard the dangers of taking animals when riders say it is a service animal and they are going to report them to Uber for deactivation.



UberLaLa said:


> ADD: So wait a minute, you are in *PERTH? *Get out of here...you don't even live in this country and have ZERO understanding of what you are talking about.


Are you kidding? We probably got even tougher animal right laws than America to do with travel industry  It a free forum and I sign up like everyone else did and got access to all the threads like everyone else does.

People in Australia get deactivated within minutes too after rider makes a complaint that their service animal is denied same deal. Usually account is than blocked and messages ignored after driver is kicked to the curb and greenlight hub says there is nothing they can do.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Immoralized said:


> I wasn't saying you  I was saying uber drivers in general world wide which is around 2 million active drivers. But whatever the world revolves around you okay. You are the only uber driver in the world. I'm sorry you found the post offensive towards you and you thought I was "targeting you".
> 
> I don't know what you even on I was just adding onto what you were saying about how general uber drivers mistake the importance and disregard the dangers of taking animals when riders say it is a service animal and they are going to report them to Uber for deactivation.


Then I was utterly confused and apologize for my retort


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

UberLaLa said:


> Then I was utterly confused and apologize for my retort


I've never attacked you UberLaLa or disagreed with you on anything  surprised by the friendly fire. Usually see you in threads with DamseLinDistresS. Anyways all good. Safe driving.

OP is toast his not going to get back onto Uber his final appeal was the phone call and they concluded already so just another grave maker for other drivers to see and take note of.... Hopefully they don't make the same mistake as so many other drivers in the similar situation.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Adieu said:


> Its NOT about that
> 
> Real service animals are obedient, never bark, and dont shit on curbs
> 
> Dont forget they yelled "go back to your country (and/or Africa, depending on circumstances)" and spat on your bumper


Maybe, still, putting out unwelcome vibes to dogs, in my experience, they will bark, they sense these things. I have no problem with any dog, and in my many years of experience, and never had a problem with even one dog, in my car. As far as I'm concerned, that it wasn't a service dog is a moot point. Technically, you have a right not to accept a non-service dog, but it's always going to be driver's word against the rider's, and Uber is going to listen to the dog owner, not you. There is only one way to prove it is not a service dog, and that is in court, and Uber, I'm quite certain, doesn't want to go there ( and why should you? ). I suggest for everyone to take my advice about dogs, and keep your job, that is, if you want it. I'm not crazy about driving for Uber, but I need it to live, even though its' a bare existence, for the time being.

Here's what I DO like about Uber. If you got some other job, you always know you can drive for UBer if you lose that job for some reason. Uber is a nice pillow, in that regard. A little bumpy, uncomfortable, but a cushion nevertheless. Takes the stress out of the workaday world. But, of course, before Uber, taxi driving afforded the same feeling, it's just that most people would never consider driving a taxi, though they would consider driving for Uber. I don't know why, they are basically the same thing in more respects than not.


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## frso (Jan 23, 2018)

Bro don’t waste your time with Uber. You’re a NYC driver that means you have a taxi license+ taxi plates. Plus you have a luxury car, join a base and start making money with bigger clientele.


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## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that lawyers for Delta know the law better than any Uber driver and if Delta is putting policies in place to stop people from abusing the system I don't understand why Uber can't do the same. 
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/...-animals-but-some-groups-are-crying-fowl.html


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## FuberNYC (Jan 2, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear what happened to you! 
Is that the car you are using to drive for Uber Black? Well, in that case, this was a blessing in disguise. 
I am pretty sure a lot of bases would love to have you work for them.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

chitownXdriver said:


> I'm pretty sure that lawyers for Delta know the law better than any Uber driver and if Delta is putting policies in place to stop people from abusing the system I don't understand why Uber can't do the same.
> http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/...-animals-but-some-groups-are-crying-fowl.html


Because Delta owns the planes. UBER doesn't own the cars so they don't care.

If a Delta employee gets hurt then Delta is responsible. You aren't an employee, so UBER doesn't care.

UBER doesn't care. Repeat until you understand.


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## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

somedriverguy said:


> Because Delta owns the planes. UBER doesn't own the cars so they don't care.
> 
> If a Delta employee gets hurt then Delta is responsible. You aren't an employee, so UBER doesn't care.
> 
> UBER doesn't care. Repeat until you understand.


So that means it doesn't go against federal law to investigate and ask for documentation, it just goes against Uber policy, correct?


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

chitownXdriver said:


> I'm pretty sure that lawyers for Delta know the law better than any Uber driver and if Delta is putting policies in place to stop people from abusing the system I don't understand why Uber can't do the same.
> http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/...-animals-but-some-groups-are-crying-fowl.html


That's for emotional support animals, not service animals. And if you actually look at the policy, they really aren't asking for much more than they were before. It's mostly a hype thing.

They ask for current shot records and the only new form an ESA owner has to give now is a signed statement that the animal can behave (they've always needed the doctor's / mental health provider's note). If the owner will lie about their turkey being an ESA, they'll sign the form too.


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## 1974toyota (Jan 5, 2018)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


Washington Post, today, United Airlines grounds womans attempt to travel with a emotional support peacok? ROFLMAO, good luck,JMO


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## Phantomshark (Jan 21, 2018)

Welsh Shepard said:


> I not talking about torturing random animals for fun, I talking about punishing pax by removing property of his that he can't handle. Don't twist things.


I really hope this is a troll and not that you really don't understand how sick and disgusting your 'solution' really is. I hope you get mauled by a bear.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

1974toyota said:


> Washington Post, today, United Airlines grounds womans attempt to travel with a emotional support peacok? ROFLMAO, good luck,JMO


Yeah, the ESA thing is out of control.


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## RoadKook (Aug 30, 2016)

htboston said:


> Vote for me for president of U.S. in 2020 and I will ban service animals (especially therapy animals) forever. I'll let survival of the fittest finish off these weak people and free their "service" animals from a life of misery.
> 
> DILLY DILLY!


Got my vote


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Phantomshark said:


> It's a shame that service dogs don't have to be licensed as such, by a reputable organization that can be held accountable. But lacking that, you can only take passengers word for it, and then sue the hell out of them if something happens to prove it's not a service dog. In the meantime, by refusing the dog you got exactly what Uber promised would happen if you refused one, but they really don't have a choice either, they have to deactivate you to avoid legal problems for themselves


A bona fide service dog takes a long time to train, and they are expensive. And whoever said service dogs don't bark, that's not true. They are dogs, and dogs do sometimes bark, even service dogs, though no where near as much as other dogs. They are trained to bark non-agressively, and they bark with a purpose, to alert you to something. If you don't understand this, you could easily misread the dog, and I think that is what happened, here (if, indeed it was a real service dog ). Now then, there are paper mills with a 2 week course claiming to train your dog to be a service dog, they are incompetent and are a waste of money, because they will sell you the things for your dog to wear, but you can buy those things anywhere and have the same result without sending the dog to a cheapie school-- an untrained or undertrained dog dressed up to look like a service dog. .


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

I got a brother with a pure bred german sheperd it doesn't bark but can bark. Pretty quiet dog.


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## YouBeer (May 10, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> I've been a driver for a total of 19 years, 15 as a taxi and 4 as Uber, off an on, dating back to 1977, not one problem with a dog, ever.
> 
> I guess some don't have the knack for animals, animals know when they are not wanted, they sense it and react, and if that's who you are, you shouldn't be driving for an outfit like Uber. As a cabbie, you have more leeway. Uber is much stricter.


Like the other poster said, if this were a trained animal it would know not to bark or be aggressive.
Whether some dog has a 'knack' for something is not even a factor in this issue.
The driver had every right to turn the person away if he felt threatened, this ada crap is being taken too ****ing far.


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## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

1974toyota said:


> Washington Post, today, United Airlines grounds womans attempt to travel with a emotional support peacok? ROFLMAO, good luck,JMO





Pawtism said:


> Yeah, the ESA thing is out of control.


Yep, and I've heard of ES tarantulas, snakes, turkeys, etc etc.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> Sorry this happened to you, but I think are a bit late to this argument. It has gone on for a couple of years on this board, and the _appearance_ of needing a _Service Animal_ is the last reason to take one.
> 
> You may ask two questions, and two questions only:
> 
> ...


Incorrect. The second question is as important as the first. The biggest answer that will allow you to say no is if they answer #2 with "Emotional support." By ADA and the policy confirmed by Uber, emotional support is not a service animal. Service animal has specific training for specific tasks.

The problem for most uber drivers is they wont have proof of this interaction. Uber also has a terrible track record for appeals process but that doesnt mean by law #2 question doesnt matter. It may matter more than the #1 question.

Emotional support is not a trained behavior, all pets are emotional support. If they didnt provide such support, most people wouldnt get a pet. Dogs give unconditional love and affection to their owners, thats why we love them so much.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Incorrect. The second question is as important as the first. The biggest answer that will allow you to say no is if they answer #2 with "Emotional support." By ADA and the policy confirmed by Uber, emotional support is not a service animal. Service animal has specific training for specific tasks.
> 
> The problem for most uber drivers is they wont have proof of this interaction. Uber also has a terrible track record for appeals process but that doesnt mean by law #2 question doesnt matter. It may matter more than the #1 question.
> 
> Emotional support is not a trained behavior, all pets are emotional support. If they didnt provide such support, most people wouldnt get a pet. Dogs give unconditional love and affection to their owners, thats why we love them so much.


Steve is right, the answer to the second question is what gets 95% of the fakers (both those who are just ignorant and honestly think their ESA is a service animal, and those who are intentionally lying). There are a few who have done enough research to lie to #2 effectively, but the grand majority of the fakers are self centered and lazy, so they don't bother to do the research. Always ask #2 if you are in doubt, and get the answer recorded on dash cam.


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## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> Steve is right, the answer to the second question is what gets 95% of the fakers (both those who are just ignorant and honestly think their ESA is a service animal, and those who are intentionally lying). There are a few who have done enough research to lie to #2 effectively, but the grand majority of the fakers are self centered and lazy, so they don't bother to do the research. Always ask #2 if you are in doubt, and get the answer recorded on dash cam.


Hmmm...if Uber has a zero tolerance for denying someone with a service animal, is there still a mechanism for the driver to send them footage of a pax lying about this _after _the driver has been deactivated? I guess email/sendspace.

Pax tells Uber driver denied me and my service animal, Uber deactivates driver, driver sends Uber footage of pax lying...then what? Will Uber actually review it? And if they do, short of the pax saying "Gosh you caught me its not a service animal" couldn't they argue #2 just stumped them cause they're not asked that question too often as opposed to not having an answer because its not a service animal at all?

I don't know, I feel it _could_ work, but I also feel short of a smoking gun (pax admitting on cam the animal isn't really a service animal, almost verbatim) Uber would stand its ground.

No cam at all, it's pax's word vs driver's word and Uber will choose the pax 99.99% of the time. :/


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

YouBeer said:


> Like the other poster said, if this were a trained animal it would know not to bark or be aggressive.
> Whether some dog has a 'knack' for something is not even a factor in this issue.
> The driver had every right to turn the person away if he felt threatened, this ada crap is being taken too &%[email protected]!*ing far.


I didn't refer to a dog for having a knack for anything, I was referring to the driver.

Yes, the driver has the right, but as I expressed in another reply, a driver is, in essence, gambling by refusing a dog, where the odds that refusing a dog will create a greater problem is greater than the odds of the dog being a problem, no matter what kind of dog it is.This is much more true with Uber than it would have been with Yellow Cab, in my experience. In my years of driving a cab, I cannot once recall this subject even being brought up with other drivers, and I hung out every morning on the cab lot waiting a 1/2 hour to an hour for a cab assignment, for years.

Service dogs do bark, so you are wrong on that count, but they are trained to bark non-agressively ( which could be misinterpreted as being aggressive ) where barking has a purpose, to alert the person the dog is trained to aid, about something.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

MrMikeNC said:


> Hmmm...if Uber has a zero tolerance for denying someone with a service animal, is there still a mechanism for the driver to send them footage of a pax lying about this _after _the driver has been deactivated? I guess email/sendspace.
> 
> Pax tells Uber driver denied me and my service animal, Uber deactivates driver, driver sends Uber footage of pax lying...then what? Will Uber actually review it? And if they do, short of the pax saying "Gosh you caught me its not a service animal" couldn't they argue #2 just stumped them cause they're not asked that question too often as opposed to not having an answer because its not a service animal at all?
> 
> ...


Greenlight Hub also works, and it has worked. A few drivers here have used it and one has even posted his footage (twice actually) and got reactivated each time. Now, they did initially deactivate them (which is a bummer) but within a couple of days they were back up and running. I've linked one of the videos below (a Lyft case), he has another one somewhere too I believe (you'll have to search for it though). Several others have reported the same thing. As long as you can prove that it wasn't a service animal (and really the only way to do that is either through it's bad behavior, or the 2 questions you're allowed to ask), you're very likely to get reinstated. You're right that if there is no footage, it's probably going to be a he said/she said... get a dash cam people..

https://uberpeople.net/threads/vide...raud-attempt-by-lyft-pax.177339/#post-2634631


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## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

Here is a dilemma, what if s passenger requests pool for one person and they try to bring on their (legit) service animal, what do you do?


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## Ride Nights & Weekends (Jan 5, 2018)

Oscar Levant said:


> I've been a driver for a total of 19 years, 15 as a taxi and 4 as Uber, off an on, dating back to 1977, not one problem with a dog, ever.
> 
> I guess some don't have the knack for animals, animals know when they are not wanted, they sense it and react, and if that's who you are, you shouldn't be driving for an outfit like Uber. As a cabbie, you have more leeway. Uber is much stricter.


A trained service animal should not shit on the sidewalk or bark at anyone. The pax was a liar.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

chitownXdriver said:


> Here is a dilemma, what if s passenger requests pool for one person and they try to bring on their (legit) service animal, what do you do?


If you mean for a full pool ride, then it's going to depend. Most service dogs have been trained to either be on the floorboard next to pax in back, or on the floorboard with pax in front. If I knew I was going to have a full load, I'd put that pax in front and have the dog on the floorboard up there (of course advising the pax why, we don't want them to think you are segregating them). If for some reason that doesn't work out, or the pax is unwilling for some reason, then it's going to depend greatly on what the situation was.

For example, this pax is #1, 2 or 3, take 'em, #4 is going to have to find another ride (make sure to be the first to inform Uber so they don't side with #4). If this pax is #4 (you already have 3 in), I'd leave it up to the pax on what to do. If they are unwilling to sit in front with dog at their feet (and I really can't imagine why a legit handler wouldn't be willing to) then ask them what they'd like to do (clearly you can't kick out one of the 3 already there). Legit service dog handlers are usually reasonable people, they may just decide to cancel and reorder themselves anyway.

And as always, keep Uber in the loop so that they side with you, not the pax.


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## MrMikeNC (Feb 16, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> Greenlight Hub also works, and it has worked. A few drivers here have used it and one has even posted his footage (twice actually) and got reactivated each time. Now, they did initially deactivate them (which is a bummer) but within a couple of days they were back up and running. I've linked one of the videos below (a Lyft case), he has another one somewhere too I believe (you'll have to search for it though). Several others have reported the same thing. As long as you can prove that it wasn't a service animal (and really the only way to do that is either through it's bad behavior, or the 2 questions you're allowed to ask), you're very likely to get reinstated. You're right that if there is no footage, it's probably going to be a he said/she said... get a dash cam people..
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/vide...raud-attempt-by-lyft-pax.177339/#post-2634631


Thanks, and thanks for that link, perfectly handled plus I needed the laugh from that liar pax. Trained to provide the task of "emotional support" huh? LOL


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Right? hehe That would be a case of a pax who honestly believes (incorrectly of course) that their emotional support animal is actually a service animal. I still respect those people a little more than the outright liars who are literally faking a disability. At least that pax was just stupid.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

MrMikeNC said:


> Hmmm...if Uber has a zero tolerance for denying someone with a service animal, is there still a mechanism for the driver to send them footage of a pax lying about this _after _the driver has been deactivated? I guess email/sendspace.
> 
> Pax tells Uber driver denied me and my service animal, Uber deactivates driver, driver sends Uber footage of pax lying...then what? Will Uber actually review it? And if they do, short of the pax saying "Gosh you caught me its not a service animal" couldn't they argue #2 just stumped them cause they're not asked that question too often as opposed to not having an answer because its not a service animal at all?
> 
> ...


The second You have an interaction where you deny a fake service dog, send a report to uber with a video link to the dash cam footage of them calling it an emotion support animal. It won't guarantee it but its better chance.

By second I mean immediately. Drive a block and send immediately. Do not wait. You want to be the first to report the problem. Uber tends to believe whomever reports first.



Pawtism said:


> Greenlight Hub also works, and it has worked. A few drivers here have used it and one has even posted his footage (twice actually) and got reactivated each time. Now, they did initially deactivate them (which is a bummer) but within a couple of days they were back up and running. I've linked one of the videos below (a Lyft case), he has another one somewhere too I believe (you'll have to search for it though). Several others have reported the same thing. As long as you can prove that it wasn't a service animal (and really the only way to do that is either through it's bad behavior, or the 2 questions you're allowed to ask), you're very likely to get reinstated. You're right that if there is no footage, it's probably going to be a he said/she said... get a dash cam people..
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/vide...raud-attempt-by-lyft-pax.177339/#post-2634631


Thatd the video ive talked about beautifully handled, textbook execution. Reactivated both times. Yes, you may have a 2 day unpaid vacation but youll get back up and running.



chitownXdriver said:


> Here is a dilemma, what if s passenger requests pool for one person and they try to bring on their (legit) service animal, what do you do?


Additional pax that dont fit would be denied. Better to deny them than the service animal.



Ride Nights & Weekends said:


> A trained service animal should not shit on the sidewalk or bark at anyone. The pax was a liar.


Even service animals have to shit. Bark.may not have been directed at OP, perhaps its task was to indicate when the pax has a dangerously high blood pressure - which he was as he got frustrated over being denied service. I'm just spitballing here.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Incorrect. The second question is as important as the first. The biggest answer that will allow you to say no is if they answer #2 with "Emotional support." By ADA and the policy confirmed by Uber, emotional support is not a service animal. Service animal has specific training for specific tasks.
> 
> The problem for most uber drivers is they wont have proof of this interaction. Uber also has a terrible track record for appeals process but that doesnt mean by law #2 question doesnt matter. It may matter more than the #1 question.
> 
> Emotional support is not a trained behavior, all pets are emotional support. If they didnt provide such support, most people wouldnt get a pet. Dogs give unconditional love and affection to their owners, thats why we love them so much.


I agree, but Question #1 _should _ferret that out. _Is your dog a Service Dog? _Unfortunately, those with _emotional/comfort dogs_ do not know the difference many times, and will report driver to Uber as refusing a Service Animal. Only chance driver has of not being immediately deactivated is if passenger responds to 1st Question with a 'no' on camera:

_Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA._

https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet



Pawtism said:


> Right? hehe That would be a case of a pax who honestly believes (incorrectly of course) that their emotional support animal is actually a service animal. I still respect those people a little more than the outright liars who are literally faking a disability. At least that pax was just stupid.


Bingo...


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> I agree, but Question #1 _should _ferret that out. _Is your dog a Service Dog? _Unfortunately, those with _emotional/comfort dogs_ do not know the difference many times, and will report driver to Uber as refusing a Service Animal. Only chance driver has of not being immediately deactivated is if passenger responds to 1st Question with a 'no' on camera:
> 
> _Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA._
> 
> https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet


The video linked above shows user that has denied the wrong answer; twice. Yes you'll get a 24-48 deactivation but if you can verify, he got back up. If you dont have a dash cam, get one.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> The second You have an interaction where you deny a fake service dog, send a report to uber with a video link to the dash cam footage of them calling it an emotion support animal. It won't guarantee it but its better chance.
> 
> By second I mean immediately. Drive a block and send immediately. Do not wait. You want to be the first to report the problem. Uber tends to believe whomever reports first.
> 
> ...


All 100% spot on.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Welsh Shepard said:


> Was pax at his home when you arrived? If so did pax have a house? If so did pax have a courtyard or yard? If yes to all these three questions, buy some D'con and ground meat, mix it together and throw it into his yard at three in the morning. You get your revenge and you save your fellow Uber drivers from dealing with this problem.


I have reported this post and suggest everyone else who doesn't support poisoning innocent animals do the same.


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## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

Do you think Uber would deactivate you if you agreed to take the service animal and delivery it to the location but kick the human passenger out in the middle for being an a$$ (but still deliver the dog)


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

chitownXdriver said:


> Do you think Uber would deactivate you if you agreed to take the service animal and delivery it to the location but kick the human passenger out in the middle for being an a$$ (but still deliver the dog)


Haha! 

Probably, but they couldn't use the service animal policy to do it (clearly you didn't refuse the dog hehe). I'd imagine they'd claim theft of property at that point (or claim discrimination of the passenger for some reason other than the dog). Love the thought process though.


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## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

Pawtism said:


> Haha!
> 
> Probably, but they couldn't use the service animal policy to do it (clearly you didn't refuse the dog hehe). I'd imagine they'd claim theft of property at that point (or claim discrimination of the passenger for some reason other than the dog). Love the thought process though.


Dogs are better than their human owners, I would have no problem taking the animal, it's the owners I have problems with.
I don't think they could claim theft as I would deliver the dog to the requested address.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

chitownXdriver said:


> Dogs are better than their human owners, I would have no problem taking the animal, it's the owners I have problems with.
> I don't think they could claim theft as I would deliver the dog to the requested address.


Probably true, I'm sure you'd get in some kind of trouble, but not sure exactly what kind hehe. I definitely agree that dogs make better people than people do typically though.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I have reported fhis post and suggest everyone else who doesn't support poisoning innocent animals do the same.


Sick serial killers start off by torturing and killing animals


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## mark_mark (Aug 26, 2017)

again, learn the drive-by technique and the I don’t speak english technique... your best Polish or Russian accent! if you are asian america, you good! black, no problem, think north africa


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## fwdmarch (Aug 28, 2017)

If you appeal: "The dog was barking so loudly and aggressively I couldn't hear what the passenger was saying"


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

chitownXdriver said:


> Here is a dilemma, what if s passenger requests pool for one person and they try to bring on their (legit) service animal, what do you do?


I configure pool rides ( which I only accept in some circumstances ) for "stop additional requests" i.e., convert it to an X ride, thereby.


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## RynoHawk (Mar 15, 2017)

People keep saying "ef Uber and their policies! Go drive for yourself!" like this will solve the issue. You have no more right to refuse a service animal whether the ride is set up from Uber or John Doe Livery. You may still face losing your business license as well as any licensing needed to operate your commercial transportation business if a passenger reports you for violating the ADA.

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying the law is so vague, where anyone can say yes and give you a BS reason that they have a service dog that most businesses just say whatever and allow all dogs into their business without even asking, even if they have a no pet policy. It's just not worth it until they change something. It would have to be some proof of training that doesn't violate the owner's privacy but something that you cannot just order off the internet.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

RynoHawk said:


> People keep saying "ef Uber and their policies! Go drive for yourself!" like this will solve the issue. You have no more right to refuse a service animal whether the ride is set up from Uber or John Doe Livery. You may still face losing your business license as well as any licensing needed to operate your commercial transportation business if a passenger reports you for violating the ADA.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying the law is so vague, where anyone can say yes and give you a BS reason that they have a service dog that most businesses just say whatever and allow all dogs into their business without even asking, even if they have a no pet policy. It's just not worth it until they change something. It would have to be some proof of training that doesn't violate the owner's privacy but something that you cannot just order off the internet.


Well, I've always thought that what they should probably do is document that there is a disability (which we have to do for housing, school, work, etc anyway), then make an official public access test (which currently varies from trainer to trainer slightly) and some official guidelines. Something they can actually test for. Then certify based on that. They won't be able to test that, say, the dog can actually alert for epilepsy, but anyone with a documented disability, who has a dog trained enough to pass a public access test (which are fairly intensive), likely has done any other training they claim to have done.

It won't please everyone, but it's about the only way they could be sure that the dog should at least be ok in public (and you could be reasonably sure it's not going to have an accident in your car or attack you). Again we're stuck with who pays for it all (you couldn't make the disabled person, so it would be state or federal, but they'll argue). In theory though, that is probably the best compromise system.

And it would get rid of the people who don't even have a disability trying to fake.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Pawtism said:


> Well, I've always thought that what they should probably do is document that there is a disability (which we have to do for housing, school, work, etc anyway), then make an official public access test (which currently varies from trainer to trainer slightly) and some official guidelines. Something they can actually test for. Then certify based on that. They won't be able to test that, say, the dog can actually alert for epilepsy, but anyone with a documented disability, who has a dog trained enough to pass a public access test (which are fairly intensive), likely has done any other training they claim to have done.
> 
> It won't please everyone, but it's about the only way they could be sure that the dog should at least be ok in public (and you could be reasonably sure it's not going to have an accident in your car or attack you). Again we're stuck with who pays for it all (you couldn't make the disabled person, so it would be state or federal, but they'll argue). In theory though, that is probably the best compromise system.
> 
> And it would get rid of the people who don't even have a disability trying to fake.


It would be super illegal.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Demon said:


> It would be super illegal.


Currently, yes, it would be super illegal. I just mean if they were to try to put together a system where they had official IDs. That's the only compromise method I could think of that has any chance of working (and even then we'd still have to have the funding battle, so it's not likely to ever happen).

It would definitely require a change in the law though.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

RynoHawk said:


> People keep saying "ef Uber and their policies! Go drive for yourself!" like this will solve the issue. You have no more right to refuse a service animal whether the ride is set up from Uber or John Doe Livery. You may still face losing your business license as well as any licensing needed to operate your commercial transportation business if a passenger reports you for violating the ADA.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying the law is so vague, where anyone can say yes and give you a BS reason that they have a service dog that most businesses just say whatever and allow all dogs into their business without even asking, even if they have a no pet policy. It's just not worth it until they change something. It would have to be some proof of training that doesn't violate the owner's privacy but something that you cannot just order off the internet.


The best way would be to microchip service dogs with some sort if soevisl chip and have businesses that WANT to be able to distinguish them buy a reader. If you dont buy the reader then too bad. It would stop a lot of lying as people wouldn't know who has a reader.

I wouldn't bother but maybe someone with allergic kids would as they would then ONLY have to transport service dogs.

A national database with chipping would be harder to fake than paperwork. And the argument against paperwork is that if the person forgets it they're screwed. But the chip stays with the dog. It could likely be incorporated into existing chips.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

Take every dog. 1-Star passenger, make a wet spot, throw some faux fur (i have a couple different types in my console) in that area, and take pics and submit for cleaning fees. Then ask customer service to make sure you are never paired with again.

Outcome.

I get paid more, my account stays intact, and never get paired with them again.

I don't even question people anymore, all I see are hundos when I pull up and someone has an animal of any sort.

I love animals in my car now!


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## Seattle_Wayne (Feb 1, 2018)

A "service Peacock" was just denied boarding an airline. So we will see what happens in the near future with all these so-called "service" animals.



UberUber81 said:


> Take every dog. 1-Star passenger, make a wet spot, throw some faux fur (i have a couple different types in my console) in that area, and take pics and submit for cleaning fees. Then ask customer service to make sure you are never paired with again.
> 
> Outcome.
> 
> ...


Genius.


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## PorkRollUberAndCheese (Mar 13, 2015)

Seattle_Wayne said:


> A "service Peacock" was just denied boarding an airline. So we will see what happens in the near future with all these so-called "service" animals.
> 
> Genius.


There is a difference between SERVICE animals and THERAPY animals. The peacock was therapy and not protected under federal law.

Unfortunately, by rule, the driver did everything wrong. As soon as the pax said the animal was service animal he had to take him by law. New York and Uber do not mess around with this.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

Welsh Shepard said:


> You would rather have him got bitten instead? Since when is a cabbie a transporter of animals? That is not the job. Only reason this is a problem is because of fascist like laws of Western states dealing with assitance animals and people abusing those laws. It's obivous this dog was not a support animal but the pet of an idiot who doesn't know how to train a dog.


1. You obviously do not understand what "fascism" is. 2. A "cabbie" is a transporter of animals when his next passenger says he has a service animal and said "cabbie" wants to remain said "cabbie". 3. That is _precisely_ the job of a transportation provider. 4. When did you get your certification in Counterfeit Canine Detection?? What are the overarching commonalities a layperson such as I can look for in an animal when trying to channel his/her anti-animal assholedness to return the universe to proper balance the next time these terrorists request me? You truly are a whisperer.

As for those fascist laws of western states that you mention...they serve to protect the rights of my sister and others including br not limited to military veterans, combat medics, victims of mental and physical abuse, those afflicted with MS or MD, cerebral palsy, kidney failure, lack of hearing-whatever, that whole rights abusing group and their barking threat pooches sipping mojitos and colluding with Killary and shit they do. My sister's service dog is the ONLY reason she is autonomous. She has a life because that animal serves her life. She is so grateful that sometimes, just for fun, my sister takes Barf on a stroll while she carries a sign with the texts of fascist law and forces unsuspecting bystanders "to deal with her and her service animal's abuse of rights." Ay ay yay, those two are so fekkin crazy, I swear. Now, yes, she does know how to train a dog, but she can't see Barf to train him and she clearly can't chase him if he misbehaves, feel? It is such a conundrum, right?

I've never encountered a more brief but densely packed paragraph of asshat drivel than your ugly paragraph of steaming bs. Dayam.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

His name is Barf? That's awesome. Did she get that from Spaceballs? 



Cou-ber said:


> I've never encountered a more brief but densely packed paragraph of asshat drivel than your ugly bs. Dayam.


Well said!


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

Welsh Shepard said:


> Did he have right to threaten a person with an aggresive dog, curse at him and unjustly take away a source of income? Perhaps your the psycopath with your blind self-centerness and inability to care for other people? A driver was basically threanted, but in a hostile stituation and was unjustly lost a source of income he had, that others may have been relient on. Where is your sense of sympathy for your fellow Uber driver?


I think you and the driver can find sympathy between shit and syphilis in the dictionary. The dog barked. Ooooooo soooo skaaaYyweeee...it barked because dogs do this, barking stuff, like daily. All of them. They bark. It's not a threat, just a bark-a simple noise, it's a fake threat. Trump says.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

Pawtism said:


> His name is Barf? That's awesome. Did she get that from Spaceballs?
> 
> Well said!


I'd be lying if I said I was clever enough to realize this.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

For those wondering what I'm referring too, you really should watch Spaceballs. 

http://spaceballs.wikia.com/wiki/Barf


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## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

Pawtism said:


> For those wondering what I'm referring too, you really should watch Spaceballs.
> 
> http://spaceballs.wikia.com/wiki/Barf


I've seen it, it's hilarious.


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## WonderLeeWoman (Oct 6, 2017)

Black_NYC said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll reach out to them first thing tomorrow. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
> 
> I always take dogs and little cats. This one was larger than what I was comfortable with -- given the pax's attitude and the reaction of the dog, it really steered me away. If the gentleman was blind or in fact really appeared to need the animal, I would gladly have transported them. The ADA is way too vague about disclaiming what is a "service animal" (a topic in and of its own).


Your safety is priority. The Rider rude with his Big dog barking at you & your gut instinct kicked in. BS to be terminated. Safety #1


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

Black_NYC said:


> So here is my unfortunate story...from a UberBlack driver with a near 5.0 star rating and luxury car in NYC.
> 
> I got a Black ride request downtown midday during the week. I pull up to a man walking his big black dog who was taking a sh*t on the curb at the time. Lucky for me, I come to find out that he's my pax. Sticking to the books, I asked him if his dog (which looked like a mini big black bear) was a service animal and what it does -- he says yes, and, when he started to get frustrated with me, his dog started barking at me. Since I wasn't believing his story and his big dog was aggressive, I politely asked the rude pax to request another Uber. I proceeded to get into my car, as the man cursed at me and threatened to report me. Moments later...
> 
> ...


 some seizure alert dogs bark to notify the person of an potential seizure.Service dogs can be allowed to bark on the phone or summon help. It can also be trained to bark to warn of a panic attack.

Although they shouldn't annoy other people in public or bark at people.

Try to tell them you felt unsafe because of the barking and if you do get reinstated next time don't make Fido mad. If you do get him mad show it you're submissive (because sometimes you got to fake it), by letting him sniff your hand or roll over, get on your back, put your hands and feet in the air and let him sniff your belly and your butt.


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## Welsh Shepard (Jan 26, 2018)

Cou-ber said:


> 1. You obviously do not understand what "fascism" is. 2. A "cabbie" is a transporter of animals when his next passenger says he has a service animal and said "cabbie" wants to remain said "cabbie". 3. That is _precisely_ the job of a transportation provider. 4. When did you get your certification in Counterfeit Canine Detection?? What are the overarching commonalities a layperson such as I can look for in an animal when trying to channel his/her anti-animal assholedness to return the universe to proper balance the next time these terrorists request me? You truly are a whisperer.
> 
> As for those fascist laws of western states that you mention...they serve to protect the rights of my sister and others including br not limited to military veterans, combat medics, victims of mental and physical abuse, those afflicted with MS or MD, cerebral palsy, kidney failure, lack of hearing-whatever, that whole rights abusing group and their barking threat pooches sipping mojitos and colluding with Killary and shit they do. My sister's service dog is the ONLY reason she is autonomous. She has a life because that animal serves her life. She is so grateful that sometimes, just for fun, my sister takes Barf on a stroll while she carries a sign with the texts of fascist law and forces unsuspecting bystanders "to deal with her and her service animal's abuse of rights." Ay ay yay, those two are so fekkin crazy, I swear. Now, yes, she does know how to train a dog, but she can't see Barf to train him and she clearly can't chase him if he misbehaves, feel? It is such a conundrum, right?
> 
> I've never encountered a more brief but densely packed paragraph of asshat drivel than your ugly paragraph of steaming bs. Dayam.


People are abusing these laws. Soceity should be helpful to those in need but there shouldn't be such rigid laws in place, especially when they can easily be abused. Read about the support peacock that was denied in a flight.

Also, what type of person names their dog barf? Really?



Fuzzyelvis said:


> I have reported this post and suggest everyone else who doesn't support poisoning innocent animals do the same.


Animal was not innocent. He was acting aggressively on behalf of an agressive master. The servants and masters fate are intertwined.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Welsh Shepard said:


> People are abusing these laws. Soceity should be helpful to those in need but there shouldn't be such rigid laws in place, especially when they can easily be abused. Read about the support peacock that was denied in a flight.
> 
> Also, what type of person names their dog barf? Really?


Again, punish the person abusing the law (a reasonable punishment, please don't poison them), not the animal they do it with. It's really common sense man. While I do agree there should be a better system for it, I also understand why (under current law) a more restrictive system can't happen. If you want it changed, go to your congressman/woman, UP.net, Uber/Lyft can't help you. If you do go to your congressman/woman, you have to actually do the research (or a congressman/woman who, during your research, you discovered is passionate about the issue too). Instead of arguing with everyone here (or condone killing animals), perhaps use some of the information you get here to come up with a workable system. You can't just say "we need IDs!", your congressman probably won't ever actually read your letter as his staff will filter that out. You have to present a reasonable, workable system, that lists potential problems and solutions for those too. It's not as simple as "we need IDs!", you know?

If you come up with a good one, it will get to your congressman, and depending on their own motivations (and what lobbies own them hehe), they may take it and talk with others about it. If you're really lucky, it actually makes it to a committee, and on to a bill to be voted on into law. These things take a long time (and a lot of debate). But, change can happen if done properly.

As to the name Barf, the answer is "someone with a good sense of humor (who probably also likes Mel Brooks movies)".



Welsh Shepard said:


> Animal was not innocent. He was acting aggressively on behalf of an agressive master. The servants and masters fate are intertwined.


The OPs assertion is that it was not a service dog (and maybe it wasn't, who am I to say?). Likely one of two things happened. Either the OP overreacted to the single bark of a service dog alerting it's owner, in which case the dog was not being aggressive and the OP is to blame. Or (going with the OP's version, which I can neither prove nor disprove), the owner of the dog was lying about it being a service dog, and the dog really wasn't a service dog that the handler was trying to force into a car it didn't want to be in, and it reacted aggressively (as you would if I tried to force you into a car you didn't want to be in).

So, either the OP is paranoid about a service dog, or a normal dog was being a normal dog reacting to what was being done to it by a lying owner. How again is this the dogs fault and not the owners? If I were to try to kidnap you, and you were to lash out trying to defend yourself, then your logic is that you should be punished and nothing should happen to me? Does that make sense to you? Seriously, you need to rethink this.

We will probably never know what actually happened as the OP seems to have bailed on us, we have no dash cam footage, and we don't even have the other side of the story. It may have been a service dog and the OP may just be mad that he got deactivated, who knows. The one thing we can be sure about though, is that whatever happened wasn't the dogs fault. It's not like the dog ordered the Uber and then tried to jump in.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

In these cases, it's easier to take the ride, and file a lawsuit against the passenger if anything bad happens.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

MrMikeNC said:


> Hmmm...if Uber has a zero tolerance for denying someone with a service animal, is there still a mechanism for the driver to send them footage of a pax lying about this _after _the driver has been deactivated? I guess email/sendspace.
> 
> Pax tells Uber driver denied me and my service animal, Uber deactivates driver, driver sends Uber footage of pax lying...then what? Will Uber actually review it? And if they do, short of the pax saying "Gosh you caught me its not a service animal" couldn't they argue #2 just stumped them cause they're not asked that question too often as opposed to not having an answer because its not a service animal at all?
> 
> ...


It's not just the dogs that get trained. The Handler does too. Anyone who is a genuine Handler of a genuine service animal is familiar with both of these questions, and is also familiar with the fact that they will have to provide, if requested , to separate tasks that the dog does. The tasks will be specific. You will not hear, "oh, he helps me when I get anxious," from a genuine Handler. You will hear, perhaps, "When I start to get too anxious, he means against me to get my attention and remind me to take my medication (or find somewhere quiet to sit down).

Handler's are VERY familiar with the law, will happily abide by it and provide correct information because if you know the questions and what to look for, it tells them you are familiar with their rights under the law.

And it's the specificity of the answers that will trip up scammers. Especially if you ask for a second task. You may be accused of not being allowed to ask for a second, or told the dog only does the one, but you are allowed, and the dog is not a service animal under the ADA unless it is fully trained to do at least two tasks.

You should still check with your state, though. Some may include ESAs. Best to know your area and its laws on this matter.

And I have no problem with taking any clean, well-behaved, quiet animal in my car, SA or not. It's scammers I have a problem with. If you're going to try to scam me about your animal, why in the world should I think you won't try to scam me out of being paid?



chitownXdriver said:


> Here is a dilemma, what if s passenger requests pool for one person and they try to bring on their (legit) service animal, what do you do?


The dog will curl up under their legs, if need be.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> It's not just the dogs that get trained. The Handler does too. Anyone who is a genuine Handler of a genuine service animal is familiar with both of these questions, and is also familiar with the fact that they will have to provide, if requested , to separate tasks that the dog does. The tasks will be specific. You will not hear, "oh, he helps me when I get anxious," from a genuine Handler. You will hear, perhaps, "When I start to get too anxious, he means against me to get my attention and remind me to take my medication (or find somewhere quiet to sit down).
> 
> Handler's are VERY familiar with the law, will happily abide by it and provide correct information because if you know the questions and what to look for, it tells them you are familiar with their rights under the law.
> 
> ...


As a handler of an actual service dog myself, I can tell you that I actually like it when people ask the two questions (especially the second), as SuzeCB said, it shows me they know the law, but even more important than that, I have a reasonable chance of not coming across a fake inside (because their gate keeper is actually doing their job). Fakes are a direct threat to my highly trained service dog, and a major bad experience (like an attack) could seriously jeopardize that training (and thus a lot of my independence).


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Off-topic, and only out of pure curiosity (tell me MYOB if you want), Pawtism , but what is the switch that gets flipped to tell your dog s/he is on-duty or off?

I know for some it's the vest or harness, but not all wear vests or anything past a normal leash.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> Off-topic, and only out of pure curiosity (tell me MYOB if you want), Pawtism , but what is the switch that gets flipped to tell your dog s/he is on-duty or off?
> 
> I know for some it's the vest or harness, but not all wear vests or anything past a normal leash.


For my dog we did the vest as well, although she's also learned that whenever I leave the house (as I never let her off duty while we are out except at hotels, etc), she's on duty. At a hotel (for example) when I take the vest off, it takes her a good hour or so to "relax" and kind of accept that she's off duty. At home, the second I take the vest off she's off to play with our other dog (who was a service dog washout). 

I'm pretty open about it, so if anyone does have a specific question, I'm happy to try to answer it btw. Obviously (by my name), I'm Autistic (Asperger's Syndrome), and I have a few other chronic issues going on that I probably won't get too much into, but I'm very open about my dog.


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## Phantomshark (Jan 21, 2018)

Pawtism said:


> For my dog we did the vest as well, although she's also learned that whenever I leave the house (as I never let her off duty while we are out except at hotels, etc), she's on duty. At a hotel (for example) when I take the vest off, it takes her a good hour or so to "relax" and kind of accept that she's off duty. At home, the second I take the vest off she's off to play with our other dog (who was a service dog washout).
> 
> I'm pretty open about it, so if anyone does have a specific question, I'm happy to try to answer it btw. Obviously (by my name), I'm Autistic (Asperger's Syndrome), and I have a few other chronic issues going on that I probably won't get too much into, but I'm very open about my dog.


I'm just curious. What tasks does your dog perform? And do you get a lot of people coming up and wanting to pet him, even though you should never pet an on-duty SA? In my many years of retail, I've had my share of service doge come in, and had to tell my employees not to ask if they can pet them. I do always ask the dogs name, and the handlers are usually happy to talk about them a bit Never asked the questions, because it was always obvious to me, but from how open the owners were I never got the sense that they would have minded.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Phantomshark said:


> I'm just curious. What tasks does your dog perform? And do you get a lot of people coming up and wanting to pet him, even though you should never pet an on-duty SA? In my many years of retail, I've had my share of service doge come in, and had to tell my employees not to ask if they can pet them. I do always ask the dogs name, and the handlers are usually happy to talk about them a bit Never asked the questions, because it was always obvious to me, but from how open the owners were I never got the sense that they would have minded.


She alerts me when I'm approaching sensory overload (I usually just respond "medical alert" to save time), does body blocking, and deep pressure therapy (which is a fancy way of saying she's trained to put her paws and body weight on certain areas of my body to bring me down from sensory overload).

Those are the ones I list when asked the two questions, but she has a few more too that I don't always list. She has an "exit" command (where, while in sensory overload, which happens mostly in crowds, she escorts me to the nearest exit she can identify, which is sometimes the way we came in) because I get disoriented while in sensory overload, and a "pull" command to help me get up (I have a somewhat minor mobility issue, she isn't big enough to be a full mobility dog though). We're working on some others still but I couldn't call them "tasks" yet as she hasn't finished training with them.

It's fairly rare for someone to just come up and pet without asking, but we constantly get requests. It's funny, they'll actually say "I know we're not supposed to pet them but is it ok if I do?" Other handlers probably hate me because I often say yes, and put her in a sit (we've actually trained "make a friend" to let her know she's about to be petted). From my point of view, I''m being a good ambassador for service dogs. A lot of people complain about handlers saying they are rude and such (when they won't let others pet). From some other handlers point of view, I'm probably setting a bad example because when they get asked and say no, people assume they are being rude. It's a bit of a lose/lose, but I just try to take it on a case by case.

When I do say no, it's usually because this is the 3rd person in a row to ask, or I'm in a hurry or something. So I (and probably the rest of the handlers) do appreciate your teaching your employees not to ask. In reality, I probably am setting a bad example when I allow it. A big part of Asperger's is that I don't always deal well with people, so I suppose that having her as an ambassador for me is part of her role too, and that's also probably why I do allow it sometimes. She's a buffer and a way to talk to people in a manner that doesn't make me so uncomfortable. That's probably also why I prefer forums like this to "face to face" conversations.

We do get questions a lot (and what's her name does top the list). BTW, in case anyone was wondering, her name is Taos. There is actually a funny story behind that name but this post is long enough, maybe in another post hehe. "How old is she" (2 and a half years) and "how long has she been in training", are common also. We also get a lot of service dog law questions (that may be, in part, due to my field too, disability law and advocacy is something I'm actively involved in).

Most of us are pretty open when we are legit and people are genuinely curious. It's when people seem to be looking for a way to "gotcha" or you have something illegit that people tend to get defensive (which is probably true for any group of people really). For example if I get pulled over, I'm very open and honest with the officer (as I have nothing to hide), and the officer usually relaxes when I'm relaxed and all is well. But someone who has a warrant or something, then they are likely to be very guarded and defensive. Or if they are innocent and are being grilled like they are guilty, they are likely to be guarded and defensive.

I'm glad you've never had to ask though. If you ever do get one that is suspect, make sure to ask the questions. Those of us with actual service dogs will be expecting it and will give you very "matter of fact" answers, where those who are faking, likely won't be prepared (and will probably get very defensive). You're not only protecting your business by excluding the fakes, you're also protecting real service dogs. An attack can be devastating for them.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

Welsh Shepard said:


> People are abusing these laws. Soceity should be helpful to those in need but there shouldn't be such rigid laws in place, especially when they can easily be abused. Read about the support peacock that was denied in a flight.
> 
> Also, what type of person names their dog barf? Really?
> 
> Animal was not innocent. He was acting aggressively on behalf of an agressive master. The servants and masters fate are intertwined.


Mel Brooks.

True story though-I had a dog named Booger. Most appropriate name for this dog. Miss him like crazy.



Pawtism said:


> She alerts me when I'm approaching sensory overload (I usually just respond "medical alert" to save time), does body blocking, and deep pressure therapy (which is a fancy way of saying she's trained to put her paws and body weight on certain areas of my body to bring me down from sensory overload).
> 
> Those are the ones I list when asked the two questions, but she has a few more too that I don't always list. She has an "exit" command (where, while in sensory overload, which happens mostly in crowds, she escorts me to the nearest exit she can identify, which is sometimes the way we came in) because I get disoriented while in sensory overload, and a "pull" command to help me get up (I have a somewhat minor mobility issue, she isn't big enough to be a full mobility dog though). We're working on some others still but I couldn't call them "tasks" yet as she hasn't finished training with them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your raw honesty and openness about you, your condition, your beautiful dog and guardian and just thank you. I found this refreshing and a privilege to read. My best to you and your conviction.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Cou-ber said:


> Mel Brooks.
> 
> True story though-I had a dog named Booger. Most appropriate name for this dog. Miss him like crazy.
> 
> Thank you for your raw honesty and openness about you, your condition, your beautiful dog and guardian and just thank you. I found this refreshing and a privilege to read. My best to you and your conviction.


Thank you.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> She alerts me when I'm approaching sensory overload (I usually just respond "medical alert" to save time), does body blocking, and deep pressure therapy (which is a fancy way of saying she's trained to put her paws and body weight on certain areas of my body to bring me down from sensory overload).
> 
> Those are the ones I list when asked the two questions, but she has a few more too that I don't always list. She has an "exit" command (where, while in sensory overload, which happens mostly in crowds, she escorts me to the nearest exit she can identify, which is sometimes the way we came in) because I get disoriented while in sensory overload, and a "pull" command to help me get up (I have a somewhat minor mobility issue, she isn't big enough to be a full mobility dog though). We're working on some others still but I couldn't call them "tasks" yet as she hasn't finished training with them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your situation. I'm sitting here laughing and slapping my forehead and going, "Duh!" because I never made the connection from your name. I probably should have, too. My son is on the Spectrum. He is verbal and considered high functioning, but far from Aspie classification. He doesn't have a service dog, but he does have and emotional support cat, although we have never actually gone to get the paperwork for him. I probably should do so, in case we ever move, so that I can make sure we can bring the cat with us no matter what. The bond between them actually surprises me everyday. I do know the difference, however, obviously, and don't have him bringing the cat with him anywhere except the vet's office.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> Thank you for sharing your situation. I'm sitting here laughing and slapping my forehead and going, "Duh!" because I never made the connection from your name. I probably should have, too. My son is on the Spectrum. He is verbal and considered high functioning, but far from Aspie classification. He doesn't have a service dog, but he does have and emotional support cat, although we have never actually gone to get the paperwork for him. I probably should do so, in case we ever move, so that I can make sure we can bring the cat with us no matter what. The bond between them actually surprises me everyday. I do know the difference, however, obviously, and don't have him bringing the cat with him anywhere except the vet's office.


There really isn't much you need for the ESA paperwork. Usually you just need a letter from a medical professional that he's currently a patient of, such as a doc, psych(ologist / atrist), therapist, etc, that states there is a documented disability and that he needs the ESA (dated within a year). Then if you move somewhere that it's a problem, you just have to formally request a "reasonable accommodation" (believe it or not, even with a service dog, we have to do that too for housing, work, and school, and have to lists our tasks).

I have noticed that in other threads (and this one too, of course) that you do seem to understand the concepts of "invisible disabilities", and until now, I wasn't sure why. I guess I did assume you knew someone or had a family member or something, but now it makes a lot of sense.  BTW, if he's a toe walker by any chance, see if you can (you may not be able to) work with him on it now (as it's murder on your feet later). I wish someone had worked with me more on it when I was much younger. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that my mom accepted me as I was, but I do have a bit of mobility issues now as a result of it (not that either she, nor I, knew that would happen). Just from one ASD to the parent of another, something to watch out for.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> There really isn't much you need for the ESA paperwork. Usually you just need a letter from a medical professional that he's currently a patient of, such as a doc, psych(ologist / atrist), therapist, etc, that states there is a documented disability and that he needs the ESA (dated within a year). Then if you move somewhere that it's a problem, you just have to formally request a "reasonable accommodation" (believe it or not, even with a service dog, we have to do that too for housing, work, and school, and have to lists our tasks).
> 
> I have noticed that in other threads (and this one too, of course) that you do seem to understand the concepts of "invisible disabilities", and until now, I wasn't sure why. I guess I did assume you knew someone or had a family member or something, but now it makes a lot of sense.  BTW, if he's a toe walker by any chance, see if you can (you may not be able to) work with him on it now (as it's murder on your feet later). I wish someone had worked with me more on it when I was much younger. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that my mom accepted me as I was, but I do have a bit of mobility issues now as a result of it (not that either she, nor I, knew that would happen). Just from one ASD to the parent of another, something to watch out for.


No toe-walking. Flat feet that went to fallen arches.  Spenco makes some wonderful inserts, which are great for colder weather, but in the summer he wants sandals, and the ones they make aren't the type he's willing to wear.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> No toe-walking. Flat feet that went to fallen arches.  Spenco makes some wonderful inserts, which are great for colder weather, but in the summer he wants sandals, and the ones they make aren't the type he's willing to wear.


Yeah, I can understand that. I often wear flip flops even in the winter (drives my family crazy hehe). About the only normal shoes I'll wear are the runners style ones with the really thin side walls and super flexible toes (I'm a toe walker hehe). Anything else I try to wear makes me trip.

Something like this (but I wouldn't be caught dead in orange hehe):
http://www.payless.com/mens-champio...7_color=navy_orange#start=12&cgid=men-viewall


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> Yeah, I can understand that. I often wear flip flops even in the winter (drives my family crazy hehe). About the only normal shoes I'll wear are the runners style ones with the really thin side walls and super flexible toes (I'm a toe walker hehe). Anything else I try to wear makes me trip.
> 
> Something like this (but I wouldn't be caught dead in orange hehe):
> http://www.payless.com/mens-champio...7_color=navy_orange#start=12&cgid=men-viewall


How do you toe-walk in flip-flops?! LOL


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Basically looks like this, but on both feet.










You can definitely hear me coming hehe , because the back of the flip flops slap up against my feet (which drives my family nuts as you can imagine). So I guess the answer is "nosily".  They much prefer it when I wear the shoes, but I'm much more comfortable in the flip flops (but it can't be just any, they have to fit right, I don't like those cheapo ones).

Something shaped more like this (although this one looks like it might be too rigid for me, but the super loose ones like the one in the top picture would be not rigid enough). I'm a pain to get shoes for hehe. 

https://www.shoes.com/olukai-ohana-...mmc=googleproductads_pla-_-none-_-none-_-none

I used to like these kind too.










But then several different people told me they looked liked pedophile shoes and I know it's stupid but I've never been able to wear them again since then. I mean I do know it's a silly reason not to wear shoes, but, I just can't seem to get past that lol.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Thank you for sharing your situation. I'm sitting here laughing and slapping my forehead and going, "Duh!" because I never made the connection from your name. I probably should have, too. My son is on the Spectrum. He is verbal and considered high functioning, but far from Aspie classification. He doesn't have a service dog, but he does have and emotional support cat, although we have never actually gone to get the paperwork for him. I probably should do so, in case we ever move, so that I can make sure we can bring the cat with us no matter what. The bond between them actually surprises me everyday. I do know the difference, however, obviously, and don't have him bringing the cat with him anywhere except the vet's office.


New discovery your son might enjoy...mini marshmallows. Toss a few on the floor and the cats go crazy. Also, please say you've show him the joy of the laser...






Never gets old. Like never.


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

you got fired from the one job that everyone is allowed to drive. a job that will have people make fun of you or think less of you if and when they find out you do. you got fired from "your own business". all because of that one PAX.



you got fired from a job that doesn't really employ you . you got kicked out of your own business.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

LuisEnrikee said:


> you got fired from the one job that everyone is allowed to drive. a job that will have people make fun of you or think less of you if and when they find out you do. you got fired from "your own business". all because of that one PAX.
> 
> you got fired from a job that doesn't really employ you . you got kicked out of your own business.


I got fired from Uber. You sure do say a lot of you-s. Who are you trying to front with this randomness? You should say. You speak. You.


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Jay Dean said:


> I used to play hardball when it came to dogs, now I see a dog, I treat them better than the pax and just roll with it. Sorry that happened to you, what is trendy sticks and service animals is "in" right now FAKE or not, basically the dog can do whatever it wants which includes being aggressive and for anyone to go against what is "in" gets the cut.
> 
> I had someone ask me to watch their dog while they shopped, naturally I was like oh hell no (in my mind), but I knew what the reality was if I didn't a low rating and whatever else. I actually enjoyed chilling out with the dog and just did not think about the time wasted
> 
> Have to remember, these complaints are coming across the desk of techs that more than likely do not venture outside and if they do they are on their phones, they are not plugged into the reality of things.


Watch someones dog while they shop? For $3? You sound like an idiot. That's just ridiculous.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

Nonya busy said:


> Watch someones dog while they shop? For $3? You sound like an idiot. That's just ridiculous.


If the whole point of having the effing beast in your ride is it's a service animal, shouldn't it go in the fekkin store with its human? Wtf.


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

TedInTampa said:


> And to think there is a simple step Uber could take and can still take. Have every driver select in their app:
> [_] I am willing to drive animals
> [_] I am not willing to drive animals
> 
> ...


Why would fuber ever want to make something easy for you?



Cou-ber said:


> If the whole point of having the effing beast in your ride is it's a service animal, shouldn't it go in the fekkin store with its human? Wtf.


So many other things wrong, I didn't even get to notice the obvious. That's correct.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

The whole point is it isn’t really a service animal but if you refuse Uber and lyft will can you if a pax says it is..they not care because it is trendy, until some real transparency and real rules are set I’m just letting anyone with a dog do their thing, and watching a dog for 3 minutes was a nice break, could care less if you think it’s stupid or not, I’m just not getting into any service animal bs situation as you see all over the forum

Btw I have an older car so at this point driving a dog is better than a drunk pax any day lol


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Jay Dean said:


> The whole point is it isn't really a service animal but if you refuse Uber and lyft will can you if a pax says it is..they not care because it is trendy, until some real transparency and real rules are set I'm just letting anyone with a dog do their thing, and watching a dog for 3 minutes was a nice break, could care less if you think it's stupid or not, I'm just not getting into any service animal bs situation as you see all over the forum
> 
> Btw I have an older car so at this point driving a dog is better than a drunk pax any day lol


_My God, uberlyft drained you of any self respect or dignity. _


First, you're not getting paid for waiting
When you calculate your profit, you'll realize you actually paid to watch someone's dog and wait, on your dime.
You make it difficult for other drivers. The next driver will get the infamous "the other guy did it, what's the probem"
You need to get your dignity back man.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Hahahha oh man, watching a dog for three minutes really bothers you huh? And no sense of humor, get your negative energy out of my eyeballs

Had to do it once out of 4,000 rides to A. Be nice and stretch my legs and B. To avoid pissing the pax off because of the dog

Get over it


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

LuisEnrikee said:


> you got fired from the one job that everyone is allowed to drive. a job that will have people make fun of you or think less of you if and when they find out you do. you got fired from "your own business". all because of that one PAX.
> 
> you got fired from a job that doesn't really employ you . you got kicked out of your own business.


Your business is still intact, you just arent recieving leads from Uber. You are free to develop your own customers using your own marketing strategy. Make sure you are properly insured now though as you won't have JR downfall back on and therr may be licenses and permits requured by your state and local government agencies.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> New discovery your son might enjoy...mini marshmallows. Toss a few on the floor and the cats go crazy. Also, please say you've show him the joy of the laser...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, we know about the laser. Bear (his cat) will jump a good 6' straight up the wall, single bound, trying to get the dot.

Tabitha, the other cat, prefers the dot made in the mornings by the sun coming in the peephole onto the stairs and wall. Yes, we will open and close the door a few times so she can chase it across the wall.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Ada does not apply to uber unless this


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

I love dogs especially as passengers. The last 3 dogs I got I collected cleaning fees on every one of them for hair.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Juggalo9er said:


> Ada does not apply to uber unless this
> View attachment 202460


Uber has more then 15 employees and control the app. You the driver was not sued by the Federarion of the Blind last year, Uber was. Now uber has made company policy that you must abide by the ADA law to receive transportation leads from the Uber app.

You can over apply ADA as the business owner, you just cant under apply it. You are free to stop using Ubers lead generation app if you do not agree with those terms.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Uber has more then 15 employees and control the app. You the driver was not sued by the Federarion of the Blind last year, Uber was. Now uber has made company policy that you must abide by the ADA law to receive transportation leads from the Uber app.
> 
> You can over apply ADA as the business owner, you just cant under apply it. You are free to stop using Ubers lead generation app if you do not agree with those terms.


The Ada would not apply to you, as a driver...you do not employ 15 or more people...uber is however free to relieve you for refusing


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Juggalo9er said:


> The Ada would not apply to you, as a driver...you do not employ 15 or more people...uber is however free to relieve you for refusing


It doesnt have to apply to you. It applies to uber as accepted in a settlement in Federal court by the Federation for the Blind.

Now Uber has company policy that anyone who wishes to use the Uber Leads Generating app must follow certain ADA criteria.

You cannot under apply ADA but you are more than frer to over apply it. When in doubt, over apply!

You are not terminated by uber, you merely lose access to the Leads Generator app.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> Ada does not apply to uber unless this
> View attachment 202460


You're quoting the employment section of the ADA, not the public accommodation section. You people need to either actually learn the legal system or give up on trying to play citizen lawyer. There are pre law high school students better equipped than you.

Pathetic, really just pathetic, that you can't spend 30 minutes to educate yourself on how simple concepts in law work


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> You're quoting the employment section of the ADA, not the public accommodation section. You people need to either actually learn the legal system or give up on trying to play citizen lawyer. There are pre law high school students better equipped than you.
> 
> Pathetic, really just pathetic, that you can't spend 30 minutes to educate yourself on how simple concepts in law work


Do you even read bro


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> Do you even read bro


*removed as I was too harsh*

Look, I'm sorry I was harsh, I've got a massive headache as I had my IVIG today. I get that you are trying to support the cause, and I do appreciate it, but pointing to Title I just muddies the waters. People are already having issues with it (I honestly don't understand why) and am just getting frustrated. My apologies man.

Bottom line (for clarity's sake) Title III is what applies to drivers and Uber (that and their settlement).


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Uber warned you this would happen. 

But maybe Uber could require all riders with service animals to prove it with paperwork prior to being allowed to ride. That way drivers couldn’t question it.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

TBone said:


> Uber warned you this would happen.
> 
> But maybe Uber could require all riders with service animals to prove it with paperwork prior to being allowed to ride. That way drivers couldn't question it.


They can't, everyone says that that same thing, and even I wish there was a legitimate national registry, but there isn't. No documentation is required (per Federal law) because there isn't any to give. With no federal registry and about half of all service dogs owner trained, documentation would consist of an owners statement (on paper instead of verbally) saying that their dog is trained X tasks. You can accomplish the same thing by asking the two questions you're allowed to ask anyway.

That's why I constantly tell everyone, just ask the two questions (on your dash cam) and the fakers will out themselves, and then you won't have to take them.


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