# Uber, Lyft Driver Strike Could Set Off Misclassification Minefield



## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

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https://www.law.com/therecorder/201...n=newsupdate&utm_content=20190509&utm_term=ca
*Uber, Lyft Driver Strike Could Set Off Misclassification Minefield*
*Thousands of Uber and Lyft drivers went on strike for better pay and benefits Wednesday. Drivers' classification as independent contractors versus employees could impact what happens next.*
By *Caroline Spiezio* | May 08, 2019 at 07:24 PM | Originally published on *Corporate Counsel*








_Edan Alva, Lyft driver of five years, protests outside the San Francisco Uber headquarters Wednesday. Photo: Jason Doiy/ALM_

Thousands of Lyft Inc. and Uber Technologies Inc. drivers stayed off the road Wednesday in a strike aimed at increasing their pay and benefits, a protest that could be complicated by their status as independent contractors.
Gig economy drivers' classification- independent contractor versus employee -is still under scrutiny in California, whose Supreme Court adopted the worker-friendly ABC test standard to classify contractors in April 2018.
If drivers were employees, the National Labor Relations Act grants them a right to strike, in most cases, and protects against company retaliation. But outside of Seattle, gig economy drivers don't have a right to collective bargaining or recourse if they're fired for work-related protests.
"Like many other employment protections, the right to strike extends only to employees, and not to independent contractors," said Charlotte Garden, an associate professor at the Seattle University School of Law, in an email. "That has two legal consequences: first, companies can fire independent contractors because of their collective action without violating labor law."
According to Garden and Stanford Law School professor William Gould, companies could face retroactive NLRA violation allegations if it's determined drivers were retaliated against and misclassified as independent contractors. Drivers participating in Wednesday's strike raised "issues that only exist in an employment relationship," Gould noted, such as worker conditions.
The second legal consequence Garden cited is that, as independent contractors, drivers on strike could possibly violate antitrust law. Because gig economy drivers are, technically, all running their own independent businesses, Gould said a strike for higher pay could be viewed as "business people who are trying to fix prices."
"That's unlawful under the Sherman Antitrust Act," Gould said in an interview.
Both labor law professors said it's "unlikely" that an antitrust case will be brought against drivers. Garden noted companies usually consider public perception before retaliating, not just legal consequences.
Neither Lyft nor Uber responded to request for comment on what consequences striking drivers will face, if any. The companies have long held that classifying drivers as independent contractors grants workers the ability to choose when they drive or take a day off.
The strikes could be sparked by the ride-hailing companies' decisions to go public without clear paths to profitability that don't include slashing driver pay or replacing drivers with autonomous vehicles. Lyft held its initial public offering last month. Uber's is scheduled for later this week.
In their S-1 filings, both companies said their business would be adversely impacted if drivers were classified as employees. Lyft's filing stated reclassification could lead to "claims under laws pertaining to unionizing, collective bargaining and other concerted activity" and claims of "retaliation under civil rights laws."
*Read More: *
As the Gig Economy Goes Public, Labor Regulations Still Pose Risk
9th Circuit: 'Dynamex' Worker Classification Test Applies Retroactively
Calif. Supremes Embrace Worker-Friendly Classification Test. Why This Matters to Gig Companies


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Only thing “set off”
is Khosrowshahi and Kalanick’s 
Uncontrollable Laughter 

Driver’s proved what many already knew.
They’re Powerless


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> Only thing "set off"
> is Khosrowshahi and Kalanick's
> Uncontrollable Laughter
> 
> ...


Wrong, this strike sent a clear message, drivers can impact the value of U/L stock, this hurts Dara and Travis more then the drivers.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Wrong, this strike sent a clear message, drivers can impact the value of U/L stock, this hurts Dara and Travis more then the drivers.


U shouldn't post and smoke dude.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> U shouldn't post and smoke dude.


Uber drove me to drugs.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Uber drove me to drugs.


_"Uber drove me to drugs"_

I suspect that was a short drive


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> _"Uber drove me to drugs"_
> 
> I suspect that was a short drive


It short, it would be better if I made money driving for Uber.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> It short, it would be better if I made money driving for Uber.


Low skill gets u low wage.
For the past 1000 years


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

lol sounds like Uber wrote this article to try to scare drivers into not striking

no chance in hell drivers get in trouble for simpy not working


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

RabbleRouser said:


> Low skill gets u low wage.
> For the past 1000 years


Uhh...

Then why do i make way more money doing the exact same thing in a yellow car with "taxi" painted on the side. With or without a company feeding me dispatch fares


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Stating that contractors aren't allowed to strike is an extremely dystopian concept. I have inherent freedom and I can literally do whatever I want, even break the law. And there's no law telling a contractor when they can and cannot work.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Stating that contractors aren't allowed to strike is an extremely dystopian concept. I have inherent freedom and I can literally do whatever I want, even break the law. And there's no law telling a contractor when they can and cannot work.


How the heck is uber supposed to tell if i went on strike yesterday or I spent the day sitting on my ass watching Netflix?


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> Low skill gets u low wage.
> For the past 1000 years


Bingo, no education required, no real skiil needed. You have to follow a blue line on your cell phone and act like a human being. Low skill job equals low pay. Some markets are better than others, but the fundementals of the job are the same.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uhh...
> 
> Then why do i make way more money doing the exact same thing in a yellow car with "taxi" painted on the side. With or without a company feeding me dispatch fares


_"i make way more money"_

Your "way more money" is relative and still working poor wages.

U mentioned in a past post taking advantage of government entitlement 
programs:
Food stamps
Affordable healthcare
Rent assistance 
Reduced utilities costs for low income workers
And of course: you don't pay taxes.

?Tax payers are supplementing your
"Way more money" life ?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> _"i make way more money"_
> 
> Your "way more money" is relative and still working poor wages.
> 
> ...


he also mentioned being a completely disabled combat veteran but you left that part out conveniently way to go.


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## UberTrent9 (Dec 11, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> he also mentioned being a completely disabled combat veteran but you left that part out conveniently way to go.


Lol! Busted!


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> he also mentioned being a completely disabled combat veteran but you left that part out conveniently way to go.


Fake news."_completely disabled combat veteran"_
Most Uber drivers have mental disabilities.

What other possible reason would they strive to be low skill FT career Uber drivers?
Mental Defect

Passengers love ❤ drivers with no employment options
Guaranteed low low fares 4Ever


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> Fake news."_completely disabled combat veteran"_
> Most Uber drivers have mental disabilities.
> 
> What other possible reason would they strive to be low skill FT career Uber drivers?
> ...


You down on vets? That's not gonna play out very well brostein.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> Bingo, no education required, no real skiil needed. You have to follow a blue line on your cell phone and act like a human being. Low skill job equals low pay. Some markets are better than others, but the fundementals of the job are the same.


Paramedics are well trained and make low pay. Same for airline pilots, teachers, dental hygienists, LVNs, etc.

Highly skilled jobs can also equate to low pay so your argument that rideshare drivers should expect and accept low wages falls flat. You get what you're able to negotiate, which is why unions were so vital to the prosperity of workers.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> Low skill gets u low wage.
> For the past 1000 years


Stop trying to be witty, it shows how ignorant you really are.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Stop trying to be witty, it shows how ignorant you really are.


Witt: showing or characterized by quick and inventive verbal humor.

Nothing? "inventive" nor? "humorous" about ???Low Skill workers earning Low Wages for centuries.....
...They're just "Facts" Professor ? @peteyvavs

Facts: something that has actual existence. an actual occurrence

Class dismissed


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

RabbleRouser said:


> _"i make way more money"_
> 
> Your "way more money" is relative and still working poor wages.
> 
> ...


I don't seem to recall mentioning any of that,

What i have mentioned is $1,000 a month in VA disability checks (true).

Umpteen tours of combat duty (while living on base) allowed me to save up enough cash to to put down a house, naturally I picked Florida. Because... Florida...

Take my $1000ish a month in disabiltiy checks and the fact i own my house outright, I have very little expenses.

I haven't actually paid rent in forever... never claimed i did.



RabbleRouser said:


> programs:
> Food stamps
> Affordable healthcare
> Rent assistance
> ...


Food stamps (no)
Affordable healthcare (VA healthcare, my prosthetic and thereby most of medical bills by % are combat related) You can BUY A CAR for the cost of a medium quality prosthetic leg.

Rent assistance (i own i don't rent)
Reduced utilities (just water and electric in Florida, they aren't unmanageable on a fixed income)
Don't pay taxes (not only do i pay taxes I have held REAL w2 jobs in the last year (Disney bus driver, taxi call center ect), also as a cab driver the math works vastly differently. Everything I make after paying off the cab company/opec/the turnpike comission is taxable profit.

In the last month i've made over $1000 in taxable profit driving a cab PART TIME. Yes taxable profit i'm going to pay taxes on. I also brought in over $1,000 in disability checks.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> he also mentioned being a completely disabled combat veteran but you left that part out conveniently way to go.


Ya gotta be paralyzed completely to earn 100% disability, i'm under that margin by a wide threshold. I'm only 64% disabled..

So let me correct you...



TwoFiddyMile said:


> He also mentioned being a *64%* disabled combat veteran but you left that part out conveniently, way to go!


Corrected it... few other issues as well.



RabbleRouser said:


> What other possible reason would they strive to be low skill FT career Uber drivers?


I can't stand for long periods of time,

I shouldn't climb ladders,

What I REALLY like doing is working part time whenever the heck i feel like it,

being a taxi driver really fits in well. Uber would be better, and it was better until the rate cuts got crippling high.


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## Munsuta (May 4, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> Witt: showing or characterized by quick and inventive verbal humor.
> 
> Nothing? "inventive" nor? "humorous" about ???Low Skill workers earning Low Wages for centuries.....
> ...They're just "Facts" Professor ? @peteyvavs
> ...


Your a terrible troll and you are trying way to hard to come off as intelligent and witty on the internet of all places...


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

KevinH said:


> Paywall, free sign up for limited viewing
> 
> https://www.law.com/therecorder/201...n=newsupdate&utm_content=20190509&utm_term=ca
> *Uber, Lyft Driver Strike Could Set Off Misclassification Minefield*
> ...


Charlotte Garden b/s U/L driver are not contractor because they have no influence (zero) how to operate their own business. The way how U/L operate business is not contracting it is monopoly of employer who misclasifide work force in order to exployt. Manipulation and speculation as symply as is.


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## treesweets dancer (May 4, 2019)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Stating that contractors aren't allowed to strike is an extremely dystopian concept. I have inherent freedom and I can literally do whatever I want, even break the law. And there's no law telling a contractor when they can and cannot work.


That article sounded like some lawyer with a blog stroking himself with clever "well u know, technically, by law, since this is this, then that" rhetoric. Not real practically useful or meaningful.



Munsuta said:


> Your a terrible troll and you are trying way to hard to come off as intelligent and witty on the internet of all places...


There's always at least one who wants to come in & shit on the poor people.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> Paramedics are well trained and make low pay. Same for airline pilots, teachers, dental hygienists, LVNs, etc.
> 
> Highly skilled jobs can also equate to low pay so your argument that rideshare drivers should expect and accept low wages falls flat. You get what you're able to negotiate, which is why unions were so vital to the prosperity of workers.


LOL unions. They served a purpose 50 years ago, now they just allow crappy entitled workers to never be fired. Paramedics make a living wage, pilots a lot more. Teachers make an average of 60K to work 9 months of the year. Your argument fall flat Sir. If you accept the terms of the contract, stop crying that you don't make enough money.

The reason there are so many Uber drivers is because the prerequisite for the job is nothing. A DL for one year? Really, oh and a crappy Civic that can barely fit 4 people let alone 5.

LOL, unions, thanks for the laugh.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Ssgcraig said:


> LOL unions. They served a purpose 50 years ago, now they just allow crappy entitled workers to never be fired. Paramedics make a living wage, pilots a lot more. Teachers make an average of 60K to work 9 months of the year. Your argument fall flat Sir. If you accept the terms of the contract, stop crying that you don't make enough money.
> 
> The reason there are so many Uber drivers is because the prerequisite for the job is nothing. A DL for one year? Really, oh and a crappy Civic that can barely fit 4 people let alone 5.
> 
> LOL, unions, thanks for the laugh.


Teachers "work" generally *10* months a year. And oh yeah, they spend many hours at home grading papers, lesson planning, and spending money out of their own pockets for class essentials. During the summer, teachers are expected to take classes for professional development in order for certification to remain current. Those teachers that make $60K a year are generally in unionized higher cost of living cities. Teachers struggle to make $35,000 a year in some states. Then there's juggling constant meetings, duty before and after school, dealing with parents, administrators, and students - some of whom have serious behavioral issues. You're right. Its an easy overpaid job that anybody can do. I wouldn't know from real-life experience or anything.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> LOL unions. They served a purpose 50 years ago, now they just allow crappy entitled workers to never be fired. Paramedics make a living wage, pilots a lot more. Teachers make an average of 60K to work 9 months of the year. Your argument fall flat Sir. If you accept the terms of the contract, stop crying that you don't make enough money.
> 
> The reason there are so many Uber drivers is because the prerequisite for the job is nothing. A DL for one year? Really, oh and a crappy Civic that can barely fit 4 people let alone 5.
> 
> LOL, unions, thanks for the laugh.


??‍♂Whoo boy. Here's one article talking about how airline pilots make low pay; https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/BL-234B-3735?responsive=y

And here's another pointing out that adjunct professors make less than $30,000 per year; https://amp.businessinsider.com/man...welfare-to-supplement-their-low-wages-2015-10 and even doubling that salary means less than $60,000 annually. Making stuff up in your head isn't the same as citing sources & offering facts. You've learned a valuable lesson today. ?


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Im going to make what i can from uber because eventually the business owners that are determined enough to watch their business fail by striking will eventually cause the demise of uber. Why dont they just get a job already and leave the business owning to drivers that understand what it means to run a business. Since the strike my income has been reduced by 2/3! All because idiot drivers think striking will hurt uber. What they forget is that it HURTS US! 

Striking is for EMPLOYEES that earn HOURLY wages. And youll still get your HOURLY wage after the strike. Instead you hurt OUR businesses. I hope everyone who participated in this stupid strike against your own business reap the rewards of less rides every day until you are bankrupt.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> ??‍♂Whoo boy. Here's one article talking about how airline pilots make low pay; https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/BL-234B-3735?responsive=y
> 
> And here's another pointing out that adjunct professors make less than $30,000 per year; https://amp.businessinsider.com/man...welfare-to-supplement-their-low-wages-2015-10 and even doubling that salary means less than $60,000 annually. Making stuff up in your head isn't the same as citing sources & offering facts. You've learned a valuable lesson today. ?


Do you even know what an adjunct professor is?


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

ABC123DEF said:


> Do you even know what an adjunct professor is?


A part-time professor but let's consult Google and find out if I'm right.










Well whaddya know....?

And you're welcome.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> A part-time professor but let's consult Google and find out if I'm right.
> 
> View attachment 320267
> 
> ...


You must not have known since you had to Google it. You came off kind of snarky...that's why I asked. There are those of us out here who work in the educational field and are grossly underpaid. It's probably the only reason we ever got tangled up with Uber/Lyft. And thanks...I think?

Also, adjuncts contracts aren't necessarily renewed each year and may work for multiple institutions to try to put food on the table and try to have somewhere to live. We're talking about $2K a semester for one class in some cases.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

ABC123DEF said:


> You must not have known since you had to Google it. You came off kind of snarky...that's why I asked. There are those of us out here who work in the educational field and are grossly underpaid. It's probably the only reason we ever got tangled up with Uber/Lyft. And thanks...I think?


Strictly for your benefit that I used Google and posted proof since I already knew what it was but yeah, many professional people are underpaid in America today.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> Strictly for your benefit that I used Google and posted proof since I already knew what it was but yeah, many professional people are underpaid in America today.





Woohaa said:


> Strictly for your benefit that I used Google and posted proof since I already knew what it was but yeah, many professional people are underpaid in America today.


For my benefit? Gee thanks.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> ??‍♂Whoo boy. Here's one article talking about how airline pilots make low pay; https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/BL-234B-3735?responsive=y
> 
> And here's another pointing out that adjunct professors make less than $30,000 per year; https://amp.businessinsider.com/man...welfare-to-supplement-their-low-wages-2015-10 and even doubling that salary means less than $60,000 annually. Making stuff up in your head isn't the same as citing sources & offering facts. You've learned a valuable lesson today. ?


I don't need an article to tell me something that I know firsthand. 


ABC123DEF said:


> Teachers "work" generally *10* months a year. And oh yeah, they spend many hours at home grading papers, lesson planning, and spending money out of their own pockets for class essentials. During the summer, teachers are expected to take classes for professional development in order for certification to remain current. Those teachers that make $60K a year are generally in unionized higher cost of living cities. Teachers struggle to make $35,000 a year in some states. Then there's juggling constant meetings, duty before and after school, dealing with parents, administrators, and students - some of whom have serious behavioral issues. You're right. Its an easy overpaid job that anybody can do. I wouldn't know from real-life experience or anything.


I do not, let me repeat, do not think teachers are over paid. I think they are under paid by a lot. I have the utmost respect for teachers.


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## lowcountry dan (Jun 15, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> Bingo, no education required, no real skiil needed. You have to follow a blue line on your cell phone and act like a human being. Low skill job equals low pay. Some markets are better than others, but the fundementals of the job are the same.


Speak for yourself. It's a lot harder than it looks to be a good driver. Many of us happen to be quite intelligent and drive either for fun or to supplement income. I had a driver the other day who was accomplished and engaging. I often help people with recommendations and act as an informal tour guide. This brings me plenty of tips and compliments.

Be careful with your elitist attitudes. You are not any better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity. So before you look down your nose at people understand that someone is looking down their nose at you. BTW, use spell check next time.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

lowcountry dan said:


> Speak for yourself. It's a lot harder than it looks to be a good driver. Many of us happen to be quite intelligent and drive either for fun or to supplement income. I had a driver the other day who was accomplished and engaging. I often help people with recommendations and act as an informal tour guide. This brings me plenty of tips and compliments.
> 
> Be careful with your elitist attitudes. You are not any better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity. So before you look down your nose at people understand that someone is looking down their nose at you. BTW, use spell check next time.


First, what makes you think that you need to warn me about anything? Your assumption that I am not accomlished in life is hypocritical, epecially since you think I am an "elitist" and I am better than others. I have been driving for Uber since 2015, I have accomplished a few things in my life other than passing the Uber bar exam. I am so very sorry for the mispellings, my browser did not put the red squiggly lines underneath them.

Driving people from point a to point b requires no skill set other than driving. Anything above that good for you. There is a reason people are signing up in droves for crap pay. Yes you guessed it, the prerequisite to be an Uber driver is pretty low. Does that mean I think all Uber divers are somehow beneath me? Of course not. But please don't sit here and try to tell me that the entrance exam to be an uber driver is hard.

Did you want to list more of your accomplishments as an Uber driver? There must be paragraphs.

Be careful with your horse blinder attitude, not everyone is looking down on you.

Good luck.


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## lowcountry dan (Jun 15, 2017)

Ssgcraig, didn't mean to have a go at you, old chap. I simply want to remind you that dealing with people in a variety of situations takes a bit of skill. Driving safely every day is a skill. Certainly some drivers are better than others. Just remember, any job that is honest is honorable. A good CEO treats the janitor the same as an executive. Respecting others is important. .


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

lowcountry dan said:


> Ssgcraig, didn't mean to have a go at you, old chap. I simply want to remind you that dealing with people in a variety of situations takes a bit of skill. Driving safely every day is a skill. Certainly some drivers are better than others. Just remember, any job that is honest is honorable. A good CEO treats the janitor the same as an executive. Respecting others is important. .


Certainly, respect is something that is earned. Old saying that I think is true today:

"Honest days work for and honest days pay"


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uhh...
> 
> Then why do i make way more money doing the exact same thing in a yellow car with "taxi" painted on the side. With or without a company feeding me dispatch fares


This.

Unlike rideshare, the Taxi cab industry is actually a profession. Further verified by a high barrier of entry (aka a mediallion) as proof of entry. Before the LyfUber gig economy, a single mediallion in NYC could cost as much as $250k+. Substantially less now, but even at current discounted rates, this still beats the $0 cost a rideshare LyfUber driver needs for work sector entry.

Unlike rideshare drivers, taxicab drivers didn't/still don't require a mandatory, proprietary 3rd party demonic app. Which controls the amount of income they can make on a weekly basis---by remote control of rideshare platform app access. Despite said app swearing drivers are free to set their work schedule as independent employees. Yet passive-aggressively attempts to use psychological warfare to control their every move, breath, blink of the eye, and fart behind the wheel on 24/7/365 basis.....


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Cynergie said:


> This.
> 
> Unlike rideshare, the Taxi cab industry is actually a profession. Further verified by a high barrier of entry (aka a mediallion) as proof of entry. Before the LyfUber gig economy, a single mediallion in NYC could cost as much as $250k+. Substantially less now, but even at current discounted rates, this still beats the $0 cost a rideshare LyfUber driver needs for work sector entry.
> 
> Unlike rideshare drivers, taxicab drivers didn't/still don't require a mandatory, proprietary 3rd party demonic app. Which controls the amount of income they can make on a weekly basis---by remote control of rideshare platform app access. Despite said app swearing drivers are free to set their work schedule as independent employees. Yet passive-aggressively attempts to use psychological warfare to control their every move, breath, blink of the eye, and fart behind the wheel on 24/7/365 basis.....


I think the high barrier of entry (medallion) has nothing to do with a taxi driver, but all to do with the owner of the medallion. The medallions main purpose is to limit the amount of licensed cabs in cities (like liquor licenses in MA). The driver is the one who paid to play, paid to get keys because there were 9,000 drivers for 1,800 cabs. Medallion owners sat back and reaped the rewards. Does this sound familiar? They were around $900K, now they are sub $250K in major markets. This is just my limited knowledge, so I may be off a little.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

That's just it. By default of nature of its significant barrier for entry, a mediallion is used as a tool to control the numbers of said profession. Thereby protecting the wages of said profession members. i.e. guaranteeing the industry members have a relatively decent standard of living given the limitations to industry membership. 

Just like the mandatory (and high) barrier for entry that a Bachelors, M.D., residency, post residency, exams etc. a doctor would require to practice medicine. And even more higher level requirements if said doctor was a specialist like a neurosurgeon. And subsequent periodic professional hurdles like periodic exams etc to maintain professional certification afterwards.

Had Uber/Lyft been genuine about supporting the human resource factor of their business model, they would've restricted app access to a finite number of drivers. This was initially the case back in the golden days when Uber/Lyft first debuted the rideshare market. Disrupted the entire transportation industry by paying their drivers real cost of living salaries. Drivers were making over $5K per month and $100K+ a year in the highest cost of living places like San Francisco and NYC. Had Uber/Lyft genuinely cared about their contractor resources, they would've restricted the app access to a constant driver population the local market supply and demand could support. 

Instead they went the mass concentration route to offer the cheapest ride in the shortest amount of time. At the expense of ride quality and driver partner income ability. By opening the app to anyone and everyone. Thereby oversaturating the local market with both local and outside market drivers. And so not controlling/protecting drivers in certain high demand markets e.g. Bay Area in CA. Which allows drivers from as far as Bakersfield and Sacramento to operate in an already congested rideshare market. Which results in an Uber driver to pax ratio as high as 5:1 in the city. And in rideshare traffic volume accounting for some 45k-50k LyfUber vehicles in traffic volume in San Franciso clogging the streets (for which the City SF was considering a lawsuit against LyfUber for traffic pollution etc.). Restricting the app to local drivers, would've protected local driver ability to make a decent standard of living in high cost of living areas like SF. 

Yet Uber/Lyft kekpt encouraging drivers to promote their own demise via driver promo codes/social media/web etc etc. Thereby saving them millions in free advertising expense with word of mouth/social media avenues. It took drivers half a decade to connect the dots, and see they were being used as an instrument of their own self destruction.....

Unlike the taxi/medical profession, the rideshare industry has no such barriers for entry. Let alone any means of professional development other than the mandatory background checks and legitimate DMV authorized driver's license every LyfUber driver is required to have.

Even then, these aren't really barriers for entry due to low industry cost. And also because unlike in other genuine professions, drivers aren't proactively maintained by any industry standards designed to recruit/retain the best drivers (not the rating system which is completely subjective & biased toward pax and so 100% BS). Established professional dev type systems in the industry that are able to proactively bar/track/weed out criminals (e.g. drivers who've committed crimes against pax like rape/sexual assault etc). Reward high performing drivers etc. Audit and recognize driver performance on a monthly basis etc etc.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Cynergie said:


> That's just it. By default of nature of its significant barrier for entry, a mediallion is used as a tool to control the numbers of said profession. Thereby protecting the wages of said profession members.
> 
> Just like the mandatory (and high) barrier for entry that a Bachelors, M.D., residency, post residency, exams etc. a doctor would require to practice medicine. And even more higher level requirements if said doctor was a specialist like a neurosurgeon. And subsequent periodic professional hurdles like periodic exams etc to maintain professional certification afterwards.
> 
> ...


The only thing medallions control is the number of cabs, there are still 9,000 drivers for 1,800 cabs. The medallion is not an entry barrier for a driver either. Suppose you want to be a cab driver in a town that has 1,800 cabs, there is a mechanism in place to let you know that the driver market is over saturated? I've never heard of that, but I was never a cab driver, so I only have limited knowledge. At least with Uber, everyone gets a cab.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

well based on your numbers, that's 5:1 drivers per cab or so currently. Which was likely considerably lower at pre LyfUber rideshare levels before the LyfUber phenomenon disrupted/destroyed the transportation industry. Because the extremely higher costs (e.g. at $900k v $250k per medallion where it is now) would've translated into a significantly lower driver population in any given market.

While there isn't an industry mechanism in place to educate potential industry cab drivers, the $250k - $900k reality most definitely serves as an entry barrier. Instead of a 5:1 taxicab driver population, LyfUber driver population is theoretically infinite (factoring in deactivations etc). 

Everyone getting to drive their own cab is bad for both driver and industry. From both a cost of living and industry sustainment perspective (using organic v. much cheaper IT labor pool). Which is why LyfUber has been trying to phase out its driver expense burden. Attracting more investors by convincing them they'll use IT to permanently eliminate its labor wage obligations to drivers as an expense from their books.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Cynergie said:


> well based on your numbers, that's 5:1 drivers per cab or so currently. Which was likely considerably lower at pre LyfUber rideshare levels before the LyfUber phenomenon disrupted/destroyed the transportation industry. Because the extremely higher costs (e.g. at $900k v $250k per medallion where it is now) would've translated into a significantly lower driver population in any given market.
> 
> While there isn't an industry mechanism in place to educate potential industry cab drivers, the $250k - $900k reality most definitely serves as an entry barrier. Instead of a 5:1 taxicab driver population, LyfUber driver population is theoretically infinite (factoring in deactivations etc).
> 
> Everyone getting to drive their own cab is bad for both driver and industry. From both a cost of living and industry sustainment perspective (using organic v. much cheaper IT labor pool). Which is why LyfUber has been trying to phase out its driver expense burden. Attracting more investors by convincing them they'll use IT to permanently eliminate its labor wage obligations to drivers as an expense from their books.


Just to be clear, the driver does not pay for the medallion. The value of the medallion has no bearing on cab drivers other than the owner paying too much for it and can't fix the cabs, charges drivers $150 for a Friday night shift, etc. It's a piece of tin on the back of a cab that is bought and sold.

The driver population for cabs theoretically can be infinite too, again the medallion does not regulate the amount of drivers, it regulates the amount of cars.

What entry hurdle does a cab driver have? What are the prerequisites? We know Uber has to have a DL for at least one year, pass two background checks and have a vehicle that meets their standard.

The Uber "phenomenon" transformed the transportation industry, it did not destroy it. It made it better for the PAX for sure.

If I am way off base, let me know as I am just regurgitating what I read a while back.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> "The Uber "phenomenon" transformed the transportation industry, it did not destroy it. It made it better for the PAX for sure. "


better for pax. Worse for drivers



Ssgcraig said:


> The driver population for cabs theoretically can be infinite too, again the medallion does not regulate the amount of drivers, it regulates the amount of cars.


That's exactly what's making the rideshare industry unsustainable for drivers. The industry inability to regulate the number of cars and subsequent driver population. Which leads too many drivers idling for a ping. Having to lose potential income from rejecting pings because they're economically unfeasible. Running the risk of deactivation from high cancellation rates for whatever undesirable pax situations the ride results in etc. etc. It leads to unhealthy traffic volume congestion, a chronic, critical issue in major markets like SF and NYC. On average, there are too many rideshare drivers per pax.

That's on a global basis, since drivers in UK echo same labor market sentiments American drivers do.

My point: the rideshare industry doesn't have a means of limiting its driver population like other industries. And this fact will continue to undermine driver ability to make a decent hourly wage in the industry.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> I don't need an article to tell me something that I know firsthand.


C'mon. Keep up. YOU stated that low skills equates to low wages. I countered that laughable assertion with high skilled jobs that also pay low wages. You get paid what you can negotiate.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> C'mon moron. Keep up. YOU stated that low skills equates to low wages. I countered that laughable assertion with high skilled jobs that also pay low wages. You get paid what you can negotiate. Dummy.


Are there exceptions, of course. For the most part, no skills usually translates to low wages.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Medallions in NYC were around a million.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Polomarko said:


> Charlotte Garden b/s U/L driver are not contractor because they have no influence (zero) how to operate their own business. The way how U/L operate business is not contracting it is monopoly of employer who misclasifide work force in order to exployt. Manipulation and speculation as symply as is.


To us, maybe. 
To those who actually matter, *no*.
Both the Department of Labor and now the National Labor Relations Board have BOTH ruled that drivers - who control when, where, how and what they drive, are in fact, legally - under federal law, Independent Contractors.

Why do those rulings matter and our feelings don't?
Because those are the agencies that determine whether or not a company has to pay workers minimum wage, overtime, expenses, health insurance, 1/2 social security & medicare taxes.

Don't like it? Write your representatives - and VOTE for representatives who support your views.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Don't like it? Write your representatives - and VOTE for representatives who support your views.


Been saying this for 40 years, good advice. Stop voting for ding dongs.


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