# Tip is not required



## excel2345

I wish that uber would either change the agreement or their language on their app for customers.
In the agreement under payment it says *tip not included* while in their communication with riders it's 
*tip is not required *
Of course a tip is not required, according to Websters it is
"something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service;'"
with their language it infers that any tip is included in the fare.


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## There’s no need to tip

Tip not included is a pressuring statement to make you feel guilty into leaving a tip because it kind of IS required. The language they have now is VERY self-explanatory. The tip isn't required because it isn't expected as part of the Uber service and never was. That doesn't mean you can't leave one if you want. It isn't like it says tips are prohibited. I, for one, feel the language is perfect.


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## Lord Summerisle

There's no need to tip said:


> Tip not included is a pressuring statement to make you feel guilty into leaving a tip because it kind of IS required. The language they have now is VERY self-explanatory. The tip isn't required because it isn't expected as part of the Uber service and never was. That doesn't mean you can't leave one if you want. It isn't like it says tips are prohibited. I, for one, feel the language is perfect.


How about "Tips aren't required but if you want to reward your driver, go ahead!" But Uber would prefer to impoverish their workforce and be one of the most hated companies in the world.


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## There’s no need to tip

Lord Summerisle said:


> How about "Tips aren't required but if you want to reward your driver, go ahead!" But Uber would prefer to impoverish their workforce and be one of the most hated companies in the world.


And who is forcing you, or anyone else for that matter, to drive for Uber? If Lyft or the other companies were so great why are we having this conversation? Like it or not Uber was started as a cashless tipless system. Many people in the general public found this refreshing as an escape from the nightmare tip culture this country has become. At some point you guys need to take responsibility for your own actions. You are big boys and girls and can CHOOSE to drive for Uber or not. Why strong-arm the customer to do something or feel guilty about something that was never originally intended yet you guys signed up and agreed to anyway? I say bravo to Uber for that stance and that language. If this isn't what the public wants, they won't survive.


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## Lord Summerisle

Ah yes, here we go again, the hoary old "if you don't like it, just quit" argument. I like that one, it's a classic. Then again, it might just be disingenuous BS to avoid the real issue that Uber is a nasty petty-minded company that makes a policy and principle out of cheating its drivers out of well-deserved tips.


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## There’s no need to tip

Lord Summerisle said:


> Ah yes, here we go again, the hoary old "if you don't like it, just quit" argument. I like that one, it's a classic. Then again, it might just be disingenuous BS to avoid the real issue that Uber is a nasty petty-minded company that makes a policy and principle out of cheating its drivers out of well-deserved tips.


I see you haven't responded to it with a valid counter argument though... I am not deflecting anything. I am being very up front with my position. I HATE tip culture. I think it has become seriously out of control in this country. I tip where I am expected to by society because I have no other choice in the matter. It isn't a cheapness thing. If my meal was $3 more expensive I would much rather that than the mess of a system we have now where I never know who gets a tip and who doesn't and the tip isn't reflected with good service it is just expected anyway. Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear yet all you guys decided to sign up anyway and then have sour grapes about it and take it out on the customer. If I wanted to participate in a tipping transportation service I would use Lyft or take a regular cab. I choose to use Uber because I like how it is run. I REFUSE to feel bad about using a service how it was originally intended. I'm sorry if it doesn't mesh with the rest of the ridiculous tip culture in this country but my answer to that is, don't drive for them then if you don't like the terms they offer.


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## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> I see you haven't responded to it with a valid counter argument though... I am not deflecting anything. I am being very up front with my position. I HATE tip culture. I think it has become seriously out of control in this country. I tip where I am expected to by society because I have no other choice in the matter. It isn't a cheapness thing. If my meal was $3 more expensive I would much rather that than the mess of a system we have now where I never know who gets a tip and who doesn't and the tip isn't reflected with good service it is just expected anyway. Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear yet all you guys decided to sign up anyway and then have sour grapes about it and take it out on the customer. If I wanted to participate in a tipping transportation service I would use Lyft or take a regular cab. I choose to use Uber because I like how it is run. I REFUSE to feel bad about using a service how it was originally intended. I'm sorry if it doesn't mesh with the rest of the ridiculous tip culture in this country but my answer to that is, don't drive for them then if you don't like the terms they offer.


Interesting member name... You originate that name to troll?
Anyways, I liked Uber for some of the reason(s) that most people like to use it. I'm not a cash carrying person. I avoid bars that can't have a tab run and hate going to an ATM for cash prior to heading on out. With all that said, Uber provided that great option to pay by card. Unfortunately, the APP itself doesn't make it easy to apply tips through the system. Drivers could carry Square's, but that extends the drive, where I think its nice you come to your stop & roll out. --

Now, would you say no to tips if given? You make your stance clear, but I am curious on accepting tips.

If Driver's wanted to make more bank - sit offline longer & wait for the Surges. The more that do it, the faster the surges may occur. They may not last long, but, it makes the opportunity more worthwhile.


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## mandreyka

There's no need to tip said:


> I see you haven't responded to it with a valid counter argument though... I am not deflecting anything. I am being very up front with my position. I HATE tip culture. I think it has become seriously out of control in this country. I tip where I am expected to by society because I have no other choice in the matter. It isn't a cheapness thing. If my meal was $3 more expensive I would much rather that than the mess of a system we have now where I never know who gets a tip and who doesn't and the tip isn't reflected with good service it is just expected anyway. Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear yet all you guys decided to sign up anyway and then have sour grapes about it and take it out on the customer. If I wanted to participate in a tipping transportation service I would use Lyft or take a regular cab. I choose to use Uber because I like how it is run. I REFUSE to feel bad about using a service how it was originally intended. I'm sorry if it doesn't mesh with the rest of the ridiculous tip culture in this country but my answer to that is, don't drive for them then if you don't like the terms they offer.


 TRAVIS??


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## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> Interesting member name... You originate that name to troll?
> Anyways, I liked Uber for some of the reason(s) that most people like to use it. I'm not a cash carrying person. I avoid bars that can't have a tab run and hate going to an ATM for cash prior to heading on out. With all that said, Uber provided that great option to pay by card. Unfortunately, the APP itself doesn't make it easy to apply tips through the system. Drivers could carry Square's, but that extends the drive, where I think its nice you come to your stop & roll out. --
> 
> Now, would you say no to tips if given? You make your stance clear, but I am curious on accepting tips.
> 
> If Driver's wanted to make more bank - sit offline longer & wait for the Surges. The more that do it, the faster the surges may occur. They may not last long, but, it makes the opportunity more worthwhile.


Hahaahah yeah I did pick that name for a reason but not to troll. I honestly believe in the position. It may not be a popular opinion around here but it is genuine for me. Here is my issue with Uber offering to modify the app to allow for tips. Societal pressure plain and simple. As I mentioned tip culture is out of control in this country. EVERYONE expects a tip for just doing their job. It is no longer a gratuity but an expectation. As of right now, the norm with Uber is NOT to tip and society finds that acceptable because that is how the system was set up. It was understood by both passenger and driver that is how it would be. If you start putting the tip "option" in there it changes the culture and then soon enough it will also be an expectation rather than a gratuity for exceptional above and beyond service for Uber. Hell, read all the posts from you guys on here. It is ALREADY like that in your minds. So while my posts might seem inflammatory, I am not trolling per se. I really do believe in the position I am stating.


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## Lord Summerisle

There's no need to tip said:


> I see you haven't responded to it with a valid counter argument though... I am not deflecting anything. I am being very up front with my position. I HATE tip culture. I think it has become seriously out of control in this country. I tip where I am expected to by society because I have no other choice in the matter. It isn't a cheapness thing. If my meal was $3 more expensive I would much rather that than the mess of a system we have now where I never know who gets a tip and who doesn't and the tip isn't reflected with good service it is just expected anyway. Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear yet all you guys decided to sign up anyway and then have sour grapes about it and take it out on the customer. If I wanted to participate in a tipping transportation service I would use Lyft or take a regular cab. I choose to use Uber because I like how it is run. I REFUSE to feel bad about using a service how it was originally intended. I'm sorry if it doesn't mesh with the rest of the ridiculous tip culture in this country but my answer to that is, don't drive for them then if you don't like the terms they offer.


You like how Uber's run? This is a company that doesn't give a crap about its workforce, that has openly admitted it's looking forward to the day that its drivers are forced onto the scrapheap with driverless vehicles, that encourages its drivers to run their cars into the ground for less than minimum wage, that deactivates drivers when they don't accept profitless rides, that encourages riders to treat their drivers' personal vehicles with irresponsible disrespect, that has created a subclass of entitled passenger Neanderthals too selfish to even tip on a ride that gives the driver the princely sum of $2.40. Wow, Sir, I hereby present you with the Martin Shkreli Award for Corporate Sensitivity and Ethical Business Practices.


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## There’s no need to tip

Lord Summerisle said:


> You like how Uber's run? This is a company that doesn't give a crap about it's workforce, that has openly admitted it's looking forward to the day that its drivers are forced onto the scrapheap with driverless vehicles, that encourages its drivers to run their cars into the ground for less than minimum wage, that deactivates drivers when they don't accept profitless rides, that encourages riders to treat their drivers' personal vehicles with irresponsible disrespect, that has created a subclass of entitled passenger Neanderthals too selfish to even tip on a ride that gives the driver the princely sum of $2.40. Wow, Sir, I hereby present you with the Martin Shkreli Award for Corporate Sensitivity and Ethical Business Practices.


And STILL no actual response to my point. I get it, they pay you like shit. I'm sorry for that but why is that MY problem? Why is it MY problem that ALL OF YOU participate in a system that is so terrible like there is no alternative? Why should I be FORCED to provide you with a gratuity for doing the basic job? And when I say forced, I don't mean actually physically compelled. I mean why should it be seen as socially unacceptable for me not to provide a gratuity when none is deserved or earned? Uber's system was always cashless and tipless. THAT is the expectation. If the amount they pay is not deemed acceptable then do something about it. Stop driving for them, go to competitors such as Lyft, unionize. DON'T take it out on the guy who just wants to get across town at the agreed upon rate.


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## RoPaDriver

There's no need to tip said:


> So once again for the love of god, if _*I *_know the rate is crap, and _*YOU*_ know the rate is crap, and the way Uber is set up is for no tips, WHY DO YOU DRIVE FOR THEM ANYWAY?????? And I'm sorry, but two adults entering into an agreement, with full knowledge of the situation, does not make ME a pig because you are unhappy with the arrangement. The fact is EVERYONE knows Uber is a non-tip platform yet the drivers want to cry and whine when that comes to pass like they were somehow tricked and blame the customer for being a "pig." If I agreed to buy your house for $100,000, and you said yes and signed the contract, after the closing are you going to cry because you felt it was worth $125,000? Grow the hell up man.


So, obviously we can see that you are a new member. So, before spouting off, you have a responsibility to do some homework. UBER was created to be a cashless system, it had NOTHING to do with not having to tip. In fact, the original language (over which UBER was sued) stated that "tip is included." Because of the lawsuit, they have had to change to language to now read "tip is not required." America is a tipping country, people are used to it. There would be nothing wrong (and it wouldn't take much effort on UBER's part) to add the tipping component to the app (like Lyft). That simple step alone would go miles in creating goodwill among the drivers, especially when in most cities, they keep lowering the rates to attract more passengers.


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## There’s no need to tip

RoPaDriver said:


> So, obviously we can see that you are a new member. So, before spouting off, you have a responsibility to do some homework. UBER was created to be a cashless system, it had NOTHING to do with not having to tip. In fact, the original language (over which UBER was sued) stated that "tip is included." Because of the lawsuit, they have had to change to language to now read "tip is not required." America is a tipping country, people are used to it. There would be nothing wrong (and it wouldn't take much effort on UBER's part) to add the tipping component to the app (like Lyft). That simple step alone would go miles in creating goodwill among the drivers, especially when in most cities, they keep lowering the rates to attract more passengers.


Yes, they say tip is included BECAUSE IT IS.... It is included in the rate you are being paid by them. That is the whole point. It is a matter of semantics. Included, not required, whatever you want to call it. The point is, it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You get in the car, you take your trip, you are done. You knew that, and I knew that. I don't particularly care if they call it a tip, a salary, or anything else. I, and all other uber passengers, signed up for a system where what you are paid is what you are paid unlike a restaurant situation. Why is that so hard to understand? My problem with allowing for an "optional" tipping option is that it will become an EXPECTATION and societal requirement just like every other tip based system we have in this country. I am sick of being pressured into shit I'm not sure I should even be paying. If the amount they are now giving you is too low, I understand that, but don't take that out on the passenger. I assume the amount you were getting before was so high BECAUSE "tip was included." I understand that Uber turned around and screwed the drivers and slashed rates but that isn't my problem. I know it is a cold opinion but it is the truth. I want to participate in a tipless system plain and simple. If you as a driver don't, then don't.


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## chi1cabby

I'm trying to get a feel for the basis of your strongly held " There's no need to tip " position:

How old are you?
What city do you live in?
You're obviously not an Uber Driver, so what's your profession?


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## McLovin

If you're fine with how uber operates wait until your safety and quality of drivers takes its toll. It's already happening. I hope you're around here a year from now. I'd like hear how your uber experience is then. I don't have an issue with tipping. I agree with you. I never expect it but I do expect uber to lower rates to 60 cents a mile eventually.


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## EcoboostMKS

If uber wanted their riders to tip, there would be a tip option. It's not there for a reason. Uber is trying to create the anti-taxi way of doing business. They know cheap people don't like to tip, so that's the type of environment and people they're appealing to. Better cars than typical taxis for a fraction of the price and no cash needed, ever.

Don't expect this to ever change. At least not with uber.


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## There’s no need to tip

chi1cabby said:


> I'm trying to get a feel for the basis of your strongly held " There's no need to tip " position:
> 
> How old are you?
> What city do you live in?
> You're obviously not an Uber Driver, so what's your profession?


1. 33
2. New York
3. Attorney (but not an excessively highly paid NYC corporate lawyer)

The basis of my position is this. I am sick and tired of wondering where I have to tip and where I don't. I am fed up with tip culture in general. People like you LOVE to say it is cheapness and other such inflammatory remarks like that because it sounds good for your position. I actually wouldn't mind if some things were a little bit more expensive and I didn't have to deal with the issue anymore. With that in mind, am I still cheap? Am I still a pig?

Gratuities used to be reserved for situations where someone in a service industry went above and beyond for you but it has now devolved into an expectation for basic service. I find tip culture silly and nonsensical. Why do I tip the steakhouse waiter 20% on my $500 bill and the Denny's guy 20% on my $5 burger. Why does the bellman get $5 from each person he brings the bags up for and the valet $2 for every car? Why do I NOT tip the McDonald's and Taco Bell guy, the office janitor, or other such positions? Why was I NOT tipping the coffee house guy before but now there are tip buckets everywhere? Was I dick for NOT tipping him BEFORE the tip bucket became common in EVERY SINGLE business? Things just make absolutely no sense and that is the frustration. Gratuities have nothing to do with the level of service anymore and have become a societal mandated fee. I know friends in restaurants that have had waiters that were completely inattentive, and sometimes even rude, but still felt compelled to leave a tip lest they be labeled a "dick." You say, "why not give the option to leave a tip." The reason is because it slowly becomes LESS of an option and more of an obligation. Take the coffee house example. Go on any barista forum and you will see that ANY person that doesn't tip is a dick. So now it is just expected when before there wasn't even an option to tip and no one had an issue. THAT right there is the problem. It is the attitude of the person getting the "gratuity" where once it was appreciated but now it is expected.

With that in mind, bring in Uber and my specific gripe with this whole issue. When Uber first came out it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You pull up the app, you get in the car, you get out. No fuss, no tip, no nothing. THAT was the understanding between all parties involved. The drivers went into it knowing what they were getting, the passengers knew what they were paying. People take issue with the wording they use. Tips included, now tips not required. The language doesn't matter. The point was the fare covered the transaction and nothing additional was needed. People like me were happy to see a system like that. That is what we wish everything we dealt with in life was like. Now the ONE place that we had made progress is under attack. All these drivers that are unhappy with the current Uber arrangement are once again making us feel like dicks because we are using the system as it was intended. Why are WE the dicks? Why should WE leave Uber? The system was set up like this so why can't you just accept that or YOU move on to another service or find a different part time job? I understand that Uber might not pay what you are happy with but what about that makes it MY problem now? The drivers were happy with the rate as it was before Uber screwed them and took a larger cut. I'm not paying any less for the service than I was so why should I make up the difference by NOW offering a "gratuity" when none was ever part of the "social contract" for this service? The issue is, your problem is with Uber, NOT the passenger. I keep seeing comments about slave labor and this and that. Seriously? Where do you think half your clothes come from? Where do you think your precious iPhones come from? You do know people were committing suicide in that factory right? Stop acting all high and mighty only when it is an issue that affects you. This is far from slave labor and you all need to lay off the hyperbole.


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## EcoboostMKS

Don't like the tip culture? Move to Europe. In America, we tip. The waitress that makes $4/hour needs tips to survive. The person that drives for $1/mile needs tips to survive.

Rationalize your cheapness however you want, but that's all your doing. Tipping people in the service industry is as American as apple pie.

Too cheap to tip? Don't use the service and do it yourself.


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## chi1cabby

Thank you for your forthright response to my questions.


There's no need to tip said:


> People like you LOVE to say it is cheapness and other such inflammatory remarks like that because it sounds good for your position.


Sorry, but I don't think I made any such statement, or make any presumptions about you.

But I won't be too far off the mark in saying that you're somewhat lacking in empathy.


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## There’s no need to tip

EcoboostMKS said:


> Don't like the tip culture? Move to Europe. In America, we tip. The waitress that makes $4/hour needs tips to survive. The person that drives for $1/mile needs tips to survive.
> 
> Rationalize your cheapness however you want, but that's all your doing. Tipping people in the service industry is as American as apple pie.
> 
> Too cheap to tip? Don't use the service and do it yourself.


And here we go. Case in point. Completely ignore the issue and respond with an ad hominem attack. Slavery was also as American as apple pie. So was women having no rights.... Yep, guess things never change for the better huh...


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## EcoboostMKS

There's no need to tip said:


> And here we go. Case in point. Completely ignore the issue and respond with an ad hominem attack. Slavery was also as American as apple pie. So was women having no rights.... Yep, guess things never change for the better huh...


Did you just compare slavery to tipping your servers? Why not go all the way and compare it to the holocaust too?

Take a walk, guy. Keep your dollars. No one has a gun to your head making you tip anyone. If you want to be a cheapskate, you've got every right to be one. Coming on here crying about it accomplishes nothing.


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## There’s no need to tip

EcoboostMKS said:


> Did you just compare slavery to tipping your servers? Why not go all the way and compare it to the holocaust too?
> 
> Take a walk, guy. Keep your dollars. No one has a gun to your head making you tip anyone. If you want to be a cheapskate, you've got every right to be one. Coming on here crying about it accomplishes nothing.


Yeah... _*I'm*_ the one comparing it to slavery.... I guess you haven't read any of the posts around here. No, I'm saying that your argument of "that's the way things are" doesn't hold up. Just because we currently have a tip culture in this country doesn't mean that it always has to be that way nor should it. Uber took the first step in changing that and all of you have your panties in a bunch but only AFTER Uber slashed your rates. I can also make the same argument to YOU. No one has a gun to your head making you drive for Uber. If you want a system that provides for tips you have every right to drive for Lyft or some other service.



chi1cabby said:


> Thank you for your forthright response to my questions.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think I made any such statement, or make any presumptions about you.
> 
> But I won't be too far off the mark in saying that you're somewhat lacking in empathy.


I didn't mean to address you personally. It isn't about empathy. The issue is why should the PASSENGER have to make up for the increased cut that Uber decided to take from you guys? As previously mentioned, when the rates were good no one gave a crap about the "no tip" policy. Once Uber decided to shaft you guys there was a real push against the policy. We all knew how the system was set up to work but now the passenger is a dick because of the greedy actions of Uber. As mentioned, the amount we pay has NOT gone down. And once again, no response to my statement. Where is YOUR (figurative not personally) empathy to all the workers around the world making all your products for mere dollars a month? No one cares about that because it doesn't affect them. I just love all the high and mighty that like to attack others before looking at their own lives.


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## EcoboostMKS

Then uber is the perfect platform for you. No tipping required. What exactly are you going on and on about? 

Are you looking for people to agree with your cheap mindset? Because that's never going to happen. No one is stopping you from using uber if you don't tip. Most uber drivers probably don't even expect to get tipped while driving for them. They may complain about it on here, but they get why they're not getting tipped.


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## McLovin

There's no need to tip said:


> Yeah... _*I'm*_ the one comparing it to slavery.... I guess you haven't read any of the posts around here. No, I'm saying that your argument of "that's the way things are" doesn't hold up. Just because we currently have a tip culture in this country doesn't mean that it always has to be that way nor should it. Uber took the first step in changing that and all of you have your panties in a bunch but only AFTER Uber slashed your rates. I can also make the same argument to YOU. No one has a gun to your head making you drive for Uber. If you want a system that provides for tips you have every right to drive for Lyft or some other service.
> 
> I didn't mean to address you personally. It isn't about empathy. The issue is why should the PASSENGER have to make up for the increased cut that Uber decided to take from you guys? As previously mentioned, when the rates were good no one gave a crap about the "no tip" policy. Once Uber decided to shaft you guys there was a real push against the policy. We all knew how the system was set up to work but now the passenger is a dick because of the greedy actions of Uber. As mentioned, the amount we pay has NOT gone down. And once again, no response to my statement. Where is YOUR (figurative not personally) empathy to all the workers around the world making all your products for mere dollars a month? No one cares about that because it doesn't affect them. I just love all the high and mighty that like to attack others before looking at their own lives.


The fact this is putting passengers at odds with the drivers proves its a failing business model. My tip to you is don't buy Uber stock.


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## There’s no need to tip

EcoboostMKS said:


> Then uber is the perfect platform for you. No tipping required. What exactly are you going on and on about?
> 
> Are you looking for people to agree with your cheap mindset? Because that's never going to happen. No one is stopping you from using uber if you don't tip. Most uber drivers probably don't even expect to get tipped while driving for them. They may complain about it on here, but they get why they're not getting tipped.


There is an entire forum dedicated to it yet _*I'm*_ the one going on about it? What about all the let's rate all the passengers 1 that don't tip posts and the like. No, I don't expect any of you to agree with it and I do plan on continuing to use Uber. I know where I stand with my position and I don't need affirmation from any of you. I LIKE the fact that most Uber drivers don't expect to get tipped while driving for them and hope that mindset continues. Let Uber do Uber....



McLovin said:


> The fact this is putting passengers at odds with the drivers proves its a failing business model. My tip to you is don't buy stock.


That may very well be true. Like I said, if it fails, it fails. If everyone jumps ship to Lyft then I guess I was wrong.


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## EcoboostMKS

McLovin said:


> The fact this is putting passengers at odds with the drivers proves its a failing business model. My tip to you is don't buy stock.


It's really the rates that's putting drivers and passengers at odds. If uber set a reasonable rate/mile, this non-tipping expectation would be irrelevant. No one would care.

I drive uber black and the rates are good. I can care less if people tip me or not. Most don't and I'm fine with that because the service pays well enough where i don't need tips to survive. Uberx drivers need tips for the rates they're being paid.


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## There’s no need to tip

EcoboostMKS said:


> It's really the rates that's putting drivers and passengers at odds. If uber set a reasonable rate/mile, this non-tipping expectation would be irrelevant. No one would care.
> 
> I drive uber black and the rates are good. I can care less if people tip me or not. Most don't and I'm fine with that because the service pays well enough where i don't need tips to survive. Uberx drivers need tips for the rates they're being paid.


YES! This, so much this. This is what I was saying from the beginning. The only reason people really started caring was because Uber kept pocketing more of the money. It would be a different story if the passengers had their fares cut by 1/4 but that isn't what happened.


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## EcoboostMKS

There's no need to tip said:


> There is an entire forum dedicated to it yet _*I'm*_ the one going on about it? What about all the let's rate all the passengers 1 that don't tip posts and the like. No, I don't expect any of you to agree with it and I do plan on continuing to use Uber. I know where I stand with my position and I don't need affirmation from any of you. I LIKE the fact that most Uber drivers don't expect to get tipped while driving for them and hope that mindset continues. Let Uber do Uber....
> 
> That may very well be true. Like I said, if it fails, it fails. If everyone jumps ship to Lyft then I guess I was wrong.


So it gives people an outlet. Big deal. This is a very small fraction of the uber driving community. It's a hot button issue, so why shouldn't there be a subforum for it?

Are these 1 star ratings stopping you from using their service? What do you care if you have a bad uber rider rating. It's pointless. In some markets, drivers can't even see their rider's ratings anymore.

But if you don't need affirmation, why are you even on here? You signed up on uber people just to discuss something you don't care how people respond to? So what exactly are you doing then? To just let the world know it's ok to be cheap? Ok, on behalf of all uber drivers, you're not cheap. You're changing the world for the better, one non-tipped ride at a time. Happy?


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## McLovin

There's no need to tip said:


> YES! This, so much this. This is what I was saying from the beginning. The only reason people really started caring was because Uber kept pocketing more of the money. It would be a different story if the passengers had their fares cut by 1/4 but that isn't what happened.


Yet, you're compelled to comment about drivers asking for a crumb. Tis the season.


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## EcoboostMKS

There's no need to tip said:


> YES! This, so much this. This is what I was saying from the beginning. The only reason people really started caring was because Uber kept pocketing more of the money. It would be a different story if the passengers had their fares cut by 1/4 but that isn't what happened.


Ok, good we agree. But it's to the point where uber driver's need tips to survive. Rates are so low and it's affecting turnover because of it. Rock bottom prices, no tips, and all the expenses are a recipe for disaster. That's the state of today's uber.

Rider's want the best of all worlds. New clean cars, water and candy, rock bottom prices, great service, and no need to tip. It's crazy.


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## There’s no need to tip

EcoboostMKS said:


> Ok, good we agree. But it's to the point where uber driver's need tips to survive. Rates are so low and it's affecting turnover because of it. Rock bottom prices, no tips, and all the expenses are a recipe for disaster. That's the state of today's uber.
> 
> Rider's want the best of all worlds. New clean cars, water and candy, rock bottom prices, great service, and no need to tip. It's crazy.





McLovin said:


> Yet, you're compelled to comment about drivers asking for a crumb. Tis the season.


Once again, why take out the fact that Uber is greedy on people not profiting from it? Why expect the passengers to make up the difference? I understand all the hate toward Uber but once again, the tip issue wasn't really a concern before Uber slashed rates. I can understand all the hate if passenger fares dropped 1/4 and WE were getting all the extra profit, but that isn't what happened.



EcoboostMKS said:


> So it gives people an outlet. Big deal. This is a very small fraction of the uber driving community. It's a hot button issue, so why shouldn't there be a subforum for it?
> 
> Are these 1 star ratings stopping you from using their service? What do you care if you have a bad uber rider rating. It's pointless. In some markets, drivers can't even see their rider's ratings anymore.


Absolutely, talk about it all you want. I have no issue with that. I figured I would just drop in and add the opposite viewpoint to the discussion.


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## EcoboostMKS

There's no need to tip said:


> Absolutely, talk about it all you want. I have no issue with that. I figured I would just drop in and add the opposite viewpoint to the discussion.


Fair enough


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## McLovin

There's no need to tip said:


> Once again, why take out the fact that Uber is greedy on people not profiting from it? Why expect the passengers to make up the difference? I understand all the hate toward Uber but once again, the tip issue wasn't really a concern before Uber slashed rates. I can understand all the hate if passenger fares dropped 1/4 and WE were getting all the extra profit, but that isn't what happened.


Actually, passenger rates have gone down in markets. Hey, not everyone's moral compass is the same. Have a great holiday!


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## chi1cabby

There's no need to tip said:


> It would be a different story if the passengers had their fares cut by 1/4 but that isn't what happened.


Actually passengers had their fares cut not by 1/4, but by 1/3 to 1/2 over the past 18 months. 


There's no need to tip said:


> I can understand all the hate if passenger fares dropped 1/4 and WE were getting all the extra profit, but that isn't what happened.


Yup that's exactly what happened.
The passengers did get all the extra savings (profit in your terminology).


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## There’s no need to tip

chi1cabby said:


> Actually passengers had their fares cut not by 1/4, but by 1/3 to 1/2 over the past 18 months.
> 
> Yup that's exactly what happened.
> The passengers did get all the extra savings (profit in your terminology).


Hrmmm.. that is troubling. I knew about the extra percentage that Uber was taking but not about the across the board price slashing. I guess I didn't really notice a serious difference in my trip pricing. I thought they were just taking more of the profits. Thank you for providing me something to think about.


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## Dar-K

Interesting conversation going on here. There's no need to Tip brings in a lot of interesting perspectives. American is a greedy country, so we all fight for the money in some way or another.

I can see how some are frustrated and looking for tipping to be a new thing for Uber. Let's look at a driver's perspective. They have their own costs (fixed & variable) and luckily gas prices are down across the country so a little money is being retained there. However, lets say a driver was making good money before rate cuts and they started to position their life to revolve around driving for Uber. Now, upon the rate cuts for the drivers, they take in less money on the average. They contribute this to lower rates in fares. They begin to get upset with Uber and see tips as the opportunity to fill that void. What ways do they go about doing that? As a collective, they rate passengers who tip better than those who don't. Rating system is practically irrelevant for the rider, because whether they're a 3 or a 5 they'll still be able to use the APP (unlike the driver, who has to maintain a high rating). Now a common response would be to quit or driver for Lyft, well, that isn't so easy for some.. In some markets, Lyft exists, but Uber doesn't, and if your a driver who does this full-time or practically relies on Uber for the additional income, your next option is to seek out other income opportunities. 

I understand that the fees to Uber (albeit Safe Rider Fees or their commissions) are basically funneled back into the system for marketing purposes. Whether it is through media or simply by promotions to first time riders. That money had to come from somewhere, right? --- It was a percentage of the fee being re-allocated to expand the market awareness of Uber. Uber wins, we as drivers win with more business. Uber probably wanted their customers to not have to deal with tipping originally because the rates were so good and they wanted it to remain cashless. They probably don't want to irritate customers and have them annoyed with constant app updates or including a tipping option because now a customer will feel obligated to tip, when they liked the service for not needing to tip. Now the customer goes back to using taxis or another ride-share service where it isn't expected. We as drivers could find ourselves complaining we don't get fares like we used to and than Uber responds by cutting rates even further so it becomes a wash. 

Here's a different perspective.... Servers or people in service industries where tips are generally expected, usually have to claim tips. There is no real tracking system for this as Uber doesn't have the tipping option. A driver may get a few dollars here & there, but are they really tracking those tips and claiming them come tax time?? If the general consensus is that passengers should tip - I'd have to imagine maybe the Government would come down on Uber in some sense -- because that would be a lot of potential tax revenue opportunities missed. 

There's no need to Tip - My question for you is if you generally tip any particular service.


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## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> Gratuities used to be reserved for situations where someone in a service industry went above and beyond for you but it has now devolved into an expectation for basic service. I find tip culture silly and nonsensical. Why do I tip the steakhouse waiter 20% on my $500 bill and the Denny's guy 20% on my $5 burger. Why does the bellman get $5 from each person he brings the bags up for and the valet $2 for every car? Why do I NOT tip the McDonald's and Taco Bell guy, the office janitor, or other such positions? Why was I NOT tipping the coffee house guy before but now there are tip buckets everywhere? Was I dick for NOT tipping him BEFORE the tip bucket became common in EVERY SINGLE business?
> 
> With that in mind, bring in Uber and my specific gripe with this whole issue. When Uber first came out it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You pull up the app, you get in the car, you get out. No fuss, no tip, no nothing. THAT was the understanding between all parties involved. The drivers went into it knowing what they were getting, the passengers knew what they were paying. People take issue with the wording they use. Tips included, now tips not required. The language doesn't matter. The point was the fare covered the transaction and nothing additional was needed. People like me were happy to see a system like that. That is what we wish everything we dealt with in life was like. Now the ONE place that we had made progress is under attack. All these drivers that are unhappy with the current Uber arrangement are once again making us feel like dicks because we are using the system as it was intended. Why are WE the dicks? Why should WE leave Uber? The system was set up like this so why can't you just accept that or YOU move on to another service or find a different part time job? I understand that Uber might not pay what you are happy with but what about that makes it MY problem now? The drivers were happy with the rate as it was before Uber screwed them and took a larger cut. I'm not paying any less for the service than I was so why should I make up the difference by NOW offering a "gratuity" when none was ever part of the "social contract" for this service? The issue is, your problem is with Uber, NOT the passenger.


You compare a Steak-House to a Denny's and the $500 Bill to a $20
Well, first off, that's a pretty expensive steak house. But let me ask you this? Was there a size-able difference between the services you received? How about the overall quality level?

Tips are becoming expected in more places, and I agree with you there. In some places, it is starting to show up in fast-food places. And some of the changing trends is that we are becoming more cashless so it is annoying to tip (if it requires carrying cash). But if we remove the tipping from all service industries, and just set better wages, I bet the overall quality of services you receive will drop. Those who worked hard and made more money working hard will provide only the minimum required to do so to get the job done & retain their jobs. That standard will only decrease over time and the business itself may suffer.

If we were to rid tipping, I think we should rid commissions too. Why should extra hard work be rewarded? In some cases, it's all about luck. Heck, I myself, personally avoid working for commission based jobs as a full-time source of income due to its inconsistent pay -- its basically unreliable. Maybe, I am not the only one and that those businesses could really benefit from fixed rates as it may potentially bring in some good sales people not wanting to deal with the stress of reaching or meeting goals. However, it also may lose out the employee who works really hard due to commissions.

If you remove one or the other (tips or commissions), I feel that the service provided will fall and the standards will drop. Wouldn't you agree?? There is different levels of "just doing your job" and some of those concepts are hidden on a customer end until the service providers stops caring.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> Interesting conversation going on here. There's no need to Tip brings in a lot of interesting perspectives. American is a greedy country, so we all fight for the money in some way or another.
> 
> I can see how some are frustrated and looking for tipping to be a new thing for Uber. Let's look at a driver's perspective. They have their own costs (fixed & variable) and luckily gas prices are down across the country so a little money is being retained there. However, lets say a driver was making good money before rate cuts and they started to position their life to revolve around driving for Uber. Now, upon the rate cuts for the drivers, they take in less money on the average. They contribute this to lower rates in fares. They begin to get upset with Uber and see tips as the opportunity to fill that void. What ways do they go about doing that? As a collective, they rate passengers who tip better than those who don't. Rating system is practically irrelevant for the rider, because whether they're a 3 or a 5 they'll still be able to use the APP (unlike the driver, who has to maintain a high rating). Now a common response would be to quit or driver for Lyft, well, that isn't so easy for some.. In some markets, Lyft exists, but Uber doesn't, and if your a driver who does this full-time or practically relies on Uber for the additional income, your next option is to seek out other income opportunities.
> 
> I understand that the fees to Uber (albeit Safe Rider Fees or their commissions) are basically funneled back into the system for marketing purposes. Whether it is through media or simply by promotions to first time riders. That money had to come from somewhere, right? --- It was a percentage of the fee being re-allocated to expand the market awareness of Uber. Uber wins, we as drivers win with more business. Uber probably wanted their customers to not have to deal with tipping originally because the rates were so good and they wanted it to remain cashless. They probably don't want to irritate customers and have them annoyed with constant app updates or including a tipping option because now a customer will feel obligated to tip, when they liked the service for not needing to tip. Now the customer goes back to using taxis or another ride-share service where it isn't expected. We as drivers could find ourselves complaining we don't get fares like we used to and than Uber responds by cutting rates even further so it becomes a wash.
> 
> Here's a different perspective.... Servers or people in service industries where tips are generally expected, usually have to claim tips. There is no real tracking system for this as Uber doesn't have the tipping option. A driver may get a few dollars here & there, but are they really tracking those tips and claiming them come tax time?? If the general consensus is that passengers should tip - I'd have to imagine maybe the Government would come down on Uber in some sense -- because that would be a lot of potential tax revenue opportunities missed.
> 
> There's no need to Tip - My question for you is if you generally tip any particular service.


Thank you for your well reasoned perspective. It is refreshing to see an intelligent voice among the rhetoric.

As I have mentioned in some threads here, and I will say it for the 5000th time even though I know it won't get through, IT ISN'T ABOUT BEING CHEAP, at least not for me. The answer to your question is yes, I do tip, and tip well. I tip my waiters, barber (employee, not shop owner), valet, bellhop, and all the "usual suspects." Note, I don't tip them because of any overwhelming desire to do so. I do it 1. Because the tax code sort of requires and expects me to do so and if I don't it is really taking money out of their pockets and that isn't right and 2. Because if I didn't, I would be labeled a social pariah. I HATE doing it, and NO it isn't because I am cheap and don't want to spend the extra money. I just find it obnoxious and annoying. Everyone LOVES to continuously brush off the fact that I continuously say I would rather prices for "tip" services just be a little higher so I don't have to play the "do I or don't I tip" that person game. Unfortunately this country refuses to move toward that end. Luckily there has been a little movement toward that end recently.

However, I REFUSE to tip people in my condo. You know when they send that list out ever year with all the staff for the sole purpose of people leaving little envelopes. I find it disgusting, especially considering they are unionized, get pay raises every year, and even get bonuses which results in additional maintenance fees for all the residents. Now they have the balls to send out a list with all their names and expect tips? Really? I just don't get it. Nor will I EVER tip my mailman, UPS guy, or any such nonsense. My issue is where does it end?



Dar-K said:


> You compare a Steak-House to a Denny's and the $500 Bill to a $20
> Well, first off, that's a pretty expensive steak house. But let me ask you this? Was there a size-able difference between the services you received? How about the overall quality level?


No, there was NO difference in the quality of service which is exactly my point. The waiter came to the table, read 3 specials off a list, took our orders, and then brought out the food. Same as the Denny's guy. YES, there are certain circumstances where the level of service is a little bit higher, I do agree with that, but IMO in most of the situations it doesn't justify the increase in tip value by a long shot. As for whether a set wage with no tips would reduce service, I don't really think it would all that much. I think that is just an argument used by employers to defend tip culture. I think there might be some people that would take a more lackadaisical attitude toward their jobs but those people would be removed and replaced with people that knew how to provide an appropriate level of service. An owner isn't going to tolerate getting complaints about their staff, it would cost them business. Perhaps the employers would even have a "bonus" of some sort for the best employee every month or every year. Encourage patrons to let the employer know who they think provided excellent service. I think that system would work very well.


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## Dar-K

There's no need to Tip- 
I understand your perspective. It is great to hear that you are a tipping person. But, when it all comes down to it as of recent, there is a lot of greed in America. Every job I have ever worked, I swear that they always have cuts. The cuts just keep coming (i.e., Tuition reimbursements, sabbaticals, bonuses, rates of PTO being accrued, health benefits, are some just to name a few). Some are big, some are small, but in the end it is usually the employee who takes the hit as the employer keeps chipping away at those costs to retain profit. In these scenarios, you can't really say if you don't like it quit & find another job. If only it was that easy, because the main problem is that the next job will slowly chip away at employee benefits. You know where I see where that type of culture tends to be the opposite? Newer companies that are smaller & value their employees. Eventually they grow to a more corporate level, expand their work force, focus more on net profits and cheap labor thus cheapening their brand or service they provide. Now what was once a good product is a mediocre product. 
We may already see that with Uber/Lyft as you get older vehicles, drivers who don't speak English very well, drivers who lack customer service, drivers who lack understanding of their area & routes. Therefor, what was once a good product is slowly becoming a poor product. Good experiences are expected, bad experiences spread like wild-fire. While yes, there is a rating system, but maybe it is soon expected to 5-Star someone regardless of service in the same aspect it is to tip someone 20% regardless of service. I wonder how many exceptional drivers decided to pursue other options due to the pay involved. So, the stigma that the community wants to create awareness of is to tip your Uber driver. They're just looking to close that GAP from what was once good rates/pay to their current income. It may be their last resort to try to wait it out. However, I would imagine if we start getting tipped frequently, fares may continue to drop. Who knows -- Competition of services, everyone fights for the money.


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## Cruisinelli

Lord Summerisle said:


> You like how Uber's run? This is a company that doesn't give a crap about it's workforce, that has openly admitted it's looking forward to the day that its drivers are forced onto the scrapheap with driverless vehicles, that encourages its drivers to run their cars into the ground for less than minimum wage, that deactivates drivers when they don't accept profitless rides, that encourages riders to treat their drivers' personal vehicles with irresponsible disrespect, that has created a subclass of entitled passenger Neanderthals too selfish to even tip on a ride that gives the driver the princely sum of $2.40. Wow, Sir, I hereby present you with the Martin Shkreli Award for Corporate Sensitivity and Ethical Business Practices.


Couldn't have said it better myself! BRAVO!


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## excel2345

There's no need to tip said:


> And here we go. Case in point. Completely ignore the issue and respond with an ad hominem attack. Slavery was also as American as apple pie. So was women having no rights.... Yep, guess things never change for the better huh...


Hi no need to tip, I started this thread with a question as to why the agreement said "tips not included" but the uber website says "tip not required". I understand that uber wants to be a tipless product and agree but when I do get a tip I really appreciate it. Funny thing is, tips normally come from people who work in the service industries and can least afford it, not the high priced executives.
In my opinion by putting "tip not required" uber is inferring that a tip is included in the fare, as you pointed out, "tip not included" is a pressure statement and "tip not required" is almost the same thing but in the other direction. How about if they don't put a tipping app in but just leave out all mention of tipping?


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## There’s no need to tip

excel2345 said:


> Hi no need to tip, I started this thread with a question as to why the agreement said "tips not included" but the uber website says "tip not required". I understand that uber wants to be a tipless product and agree but when I do get a tip I really appreciate it. Funny thing is, tips normally come from people who work in the service industries and can least afford it, not the high priced executives.
> In my opinion by putting "tip not required" uber is inferring that a tip is included in the fare, as you pointed out, "tip not included" is a pressure statement and "tip not required" is almost the same thing but in the other direction. How about if they don't put a tipping app in but just leave out all mention of tipping?


At this point, as others have said, I don't think there is anything they can do to change things. Even if the option was included I don't think it would be utilized all that often. In all reality, SHOULD there be a tipping option in the app, yeah probably. It really should be easy to give an OPTIONAL gratuity if you so desire. The problem is though, when there is the OPTION of a tip in this society, it kind of becomes EXPECTED. Especially by those who work the job. Look at things as they exist NOW. Uber has never been a tipping service, the drivers knew that, yet they are STILL so hostile and bitter about it. Unfortunately I don't think a tip can every really just be a tip (hahahah just the tip) in this society anymore.


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## gravelaine

Uber was never meant to be a tipping service, rates were never meant to drop down as low as they are now and Uber was never supposed to take a bigger commission out.
Oh wait, they all happened.


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## There’s no need to tip

gravelaine said:


> rates were never meant to drop down as low as they are now and Uber was never supposed to take a bigger commission out.


How do you know that wasn't the plan all along?


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## gravelaine

There's no need to tip said:


> How do you know that wasn't the plan all along?


Just as much as Uber now stating that tips are in fact not included, but you don't have to tip if you don't want to. Things change.


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## There’s no need to tip

gravelaine said:


> Just as much as Uber now stating that tips are in fact not included, but you don't have to tip if you don't want to. Things change.


Tips are "included" now just as much as there were before. It is all semantics. They didn't mean an EXTRA % was being added on top. They meant that the fare was "all inclusive" just like they still mean it now. I don't know, I didn't find it all that confusing with the old language. I knew exactly what they meant.


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## 84483Team

There's no need to tip said:


> Tips are "included" now just as much as there were before. It is all semantics. They didn't mean an EXTRA % was being added on top. They meant that the fare was "all inclusive" just like they still mean it now. I don't know, I didn't find it all that confusing with the old language. I knew exactly what they meant.


----------



## gravelaine

There's no need to tip said:


> Tips are "included" now just as much as there were before. It is all semantics. They didn't mean an EXTRA % was being added on top. They meant that the fare was "all inclusive" just like they still mean it now. I don't know, I didn't find it all that confusing with the old language. I knew exactly what they meant.


As an alleged lawyer, you are either horrible or just plain dumb. I can't teach you english because what they advertise is in plain english. If you are offended, good because you are annoying everyone else trying to convince yourself tips are still included. I'd rather argue with my dogs who seem to understand when I speak to him.


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## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> Yes, they say tip is included BECAUSE IT IS.... It is included in the rate you are being paid by them. That is the whole point. It is a matter of semantics. Included, not required, whatever you want to call it. The point is, it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You get in the car, you take your trip, you are done. You knew that, and I knew that. I don't particularly care if they call it a tip, a salary, or anything else. I, and all other uber passengers, signed up for a system where what you are paid is what you are paid unlike a restaurant situation. Why is that so hard to understand? My problem with allowing for an "optional" tipping option is that it will become an EXPECTATION and societal requirement just like every other tip based system we have in this country. I am sick of being pressured into shit I'm not sure I should even be paying. If the amount they are now giving you is too low, I understand that, but don't take that out on the passenger. I assume the amount you were getting before was so high BECAUSE "tip was included." I understand that Uber turned around and screwed the drivers and slashed rates but that isn't my problem. I know it is a cold opinion but it is the truth. I want to participate in a tipless system plain and simple. If you as a driver don't, then don't.


By law they can't take a portion of your tip. So no, it is NOT included or a portion of the fare would be given 100% to us. Which is the argument in the lawsuit.


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## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> Tips included, now tips not required. The language doesn't matter.


You're a lawyer who claims this?


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## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> There is an entire forum dedicated to it yet _*I'm*_ the one going on about it? What about all the let's rate all the passengers 1 that don't tip posts and the like.


You wouldn't have to tip even if it WAS in the app. But there are plenty of riders who WANT to tip and want to be able to do it in the app.

And I don't have to rate you well either. There's no obligation for you to tip or I to give you a good rating.

Of course if rating non tippers badly catches on, you may wait longer for a ride. Just like my non tipping pizza customers get their pizza last...

But you say it's not related to service anymore?

Oh you are so wrong...that only works if you don't go to the same business more than a couple of times. By the 3rd time we've got your number.


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## Fuzzyelvis

excel2345 said:


> Hi no need to tip, I started this thread with a question as to why the agreement said "tips not included" but the uber website says "tip not required". I understand that uber wants to be a tipless product and agree but when I do get a tip I really appreciate it. Funny thing is, tips normally come from people who work in the service industries and can least afford it, not the high priced executives.
> In my opinion by putting "tip not required" uber is inferring that a tip is included in the fare, as you pointed out, "tip not included" is a pressure statement and "tip not required" is almost the same thing but in the other direction. How about if they don't put a tipping app in but just leave out all mention of tipping?


Please sort out implying and inferring. It's driving me crazy. I can't even concentrate on what you're saying.


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## gravelaine

Fuzzyelvis said:


> By law they can't take a portion of your tip. So no, it is NOT included or a portion of the fare would be given 100% to us. Which is the argument in the lawsuit.


You can tell him the sky is blue and he'll argue that it is red. Uber used to say "tips are included" on their website but now changed it to "tips not require". And why is that? But "this lawyer" will defend that dog shit doesn't smell.


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## neweagle

Irony:

1) There is no need to tip is frustrated with drivers "taking it out" on pax when the problem is with Uber, and they should go somewhere else if they want a tipping culture

2) There is no need to tip is frustrated with our society's tipping culture and takes it out on drivers when his problem is with society, and he should go somewhere else if he wants a non-tipping culture


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## UberHammer

Any lawyer will tell you, the less you say, the better off you are.

Uber didn't have to say anything about tipping. If they don't like tipping, they simply can not have a tipping feature and would never get in any trouble as a result.

But because Uber has made statements about tipping, it exposes them to legal risks that they wouldn't have if they had just shut up about it.


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## There’s no need to tip

For the love of god, this isn't about what Uber said then vs what they say now. I'm not talking about the lawsuit. The point was, which you can't seem to get through your head, is that NO MATTER WHAT LANGUAGE THEY USED they never intended for an additional gratuity to be provided with this service. Their INTENT was always to have the fare be the complete compensation to the driver. That is what "tip included" meant. Yes I know calling it a "tip" was not accurate. Yes I know they now have different language, so what? Yes it matters in terms of the lawsuit (duh...) but that isn't what we are discussing here. When I say "tips are included" I mean no matter what language they are currently using on the website the point is the fare is STILL meant to be the full compensation in their eyes and the eyes of the passengers. Should they have been more specific from the beginning, yes absolutely and they might pay for it now. It still doesn't change anything but the language they are using. The philosophy is still there



neweagle said:


> Irony:
> 
> 1) There is no need to tip is frustrated with drivers "taking it out" on pax when the problem is with Uber, and they should go somewhere else if they want a tipping culture
> 
> 2) There is no need to tip is frustrated with our society's tipping culture and takes it out on drivers when his problem is with society, and he should go somewhere else if he wants a non-tipping culture


1. Yes, absolutely

2. I'm not taking anything out on anyone. This is where you are wrong. I am using Uber as it was and is intended to be used. I AM USING UBER BECAUSE I want a non-tipping culture which is what Uber is pushing. Me LEAVING Uber to "go somewhere else" would be the exact opposite of what I should be doing if I wanted a non-tipping culture. Why would I leave a company pushing the philosophy I want? That is a bit counterintuitive.


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## secretadmirer

Ok ok, we "get it". You're a big admirer of Uber's underhanded business tactics. If want to be in a non-tip culture, move to another country like Japan that honors such a thing. We understand why you post such things because you're one of Travis' lackeys.


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## pengduck

neweagle said:


> Irony:
> 
> 1) There is no need to tip is frustrated with drivers "taking it out" on pax when the problem is with Uber, and they should go somewhere else if they want a tipping culture
> 
> 2) There is no need to tip is frustrated with our society's tipping culture and takes it out on drivers when his problem is with society, and he should go somewhere else if he wants a non-tipping culture


There's no need to make a profit either. What else keeps you in business though. If you go to a bar and they have $2 well drinks do you still tip the same $1 you always do. For your sake I hope not.


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## joeactuary

No matter how many times you say it, or how many capital letters you use, the fact is a tip was never included as part of the Uber fare, past or present. In America, tipping your taxi driver is considered standard and customary. The inescapable conclusion is that pax should do the right thing and tip. I get it, uberX pax are cheap, that's why they use UberX, but using some fallacious logic saying that tip is already included is just deluding yourself.


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## joeactuary

pengduck said:


> There's no need to make a profit either. What else keeps you in business though. If you go to a bar and they have $2 well drinks do you still tip the same $1 you always do. For your sake I hope not.


I hope you're not saying what I think you are! No, I don't dig out 3 dimes to tip for a $2 drink. I tip $1.


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## neweagle

There's no need to tip said:


> For the love of god, this isn't about what Uber said then vs what they say now. I'm not talking about the lawsuit. The point was, which you can't seem to get through your head, is that NO MATTER WHAT LANGUAGE THEY USED they never intended for an additional gratuity to be provided with this service. Their INTENT was always to have the fare be the complete compensation to the driver. That is what "tip included" meant. Yes I know calling it a "tip" was not accurate. Yes I know they now have different language, so what? Yes it matters in terms of the lawsuit (duh...) but that isn't what we are discussing here. When I say "tips are included" I mean no matter what language they are currently using on the website the point is the fare is STILL meant to be the full compensation in their eyes and the eyes of the passengers. Should they have been more specific from the beginning, yes absolutely and they might pay for it now. It still doesn't change anything but the language they are using. The philosophy is still there
> 
> 1. Yes, absolutely
> 
> 2. I'm not taking anything out on anyone. This is where you are wrong. I am using Uber as it was and is intended to be used. I AM USING UBER BECAUSE I want a non-tipping culture which is what Uber is pushing. Me LEAVING Uber to "go somewhere else" would be the exact opposite of what I should be doing if I wanted a non-tipping culture. Why would I leave a company pushing the philosophy I want? That is a bit counterintuitive.


Your problem is with the tipping culture in our society. So you could just go somewhere else to find the culture you want. But rather than do that, you will stay here, and try to help change the culture you're currently in. How is that any different than drivers having a problem with the non-tipping culture at Uber, and rather than just going somewhere else, trying to change the culture where they currently are?

You've admitted several times that you don't have the guts to stand up for your belief everywhere, so you've decided to wrap yourself in the "tip-free" security blanket known as "Being an Uber Passenger." If you were strong enough in your belief to practice it everywhere, that would be one thing, because it would mean that you were really trying to change the culture. But the fact that you don't means that you're basically all talk.


----------



## Dar-K

While the writing on the wall may have once said "Tips included" and have recently changed to "Tips not required" - I think the Uber-X drivers as a whole have the ability to change that perception. It would take some time & effort as a collective whole, but in time could be done. 

Driver/Passengers could submit request to Uber-X for a tipping option
-- Just because some people use the service because they don't want to tip, doesn't mean they have to, but you may have some people who don't carry cash that wish there was a way to tip. Imagine going to a restaurant and not having cash, and paying by card but not having a tipping option... How many people would that annoy?

Drivers/Passengers could generate the awareness that tips are 'Highly - Highly' appreciated (Emphasis on highly-appreciated). While still following the logic that Uber claims that they are not required, but with the amount of time, money, and amount of pay an Uber driver really makes, making tips are greatly appreciated.

The rating system --- While it won't really impact passengers, it does provide an idea from a driver stand-point as a way to determine whether a PAX is worth your time.. Maybe you are on the edge of taking another fare for the night & see a low-rated pax, you decline & go offline. Letting passengers know ratings tend to go both ways - they may become more aware & want to maintain that higher rating for reason(s) of appearing as a quality passenger.

You don't have to ask for them, you don't have to beg for them, but you can educate passengers on how the system works and explain how some drivers rate passengers differently than others, etc.


----------



## RedLightFinder

There's no need to tip said:


> 1. 33
> 2. New York
> 3. Attorney (but not an excessively highly paid NYC corporate lawyer)
> 
> The basis of my position is this. I am sick and tired of wondering where I have to tip and where I don't. I am fed up with tip culture in general. People like you LOVE to say it is cheapness and other such inflammatory remarks like that because it sounds good for your position. I actually wouldn't mind if some things were a little bit more expensive and I didn't have to deal with the issue anymore. With that in mind, am I still cheap? Am I still a pig?
> 
> Gratuities used to be reserved for situations where someone in a service industry went above and beyond for you but it has now devolved into an expectation for basic service. I find tip culture silly and nonsensical. Why do I tip the steakhouse waiter 20% on my $500 bill and the Denny's guy 20% on my $5 burger. Why does the bellman get $5 from each person he brings the bags up for and the valet $2 for every car? Why do I NOT tip the McDonald's and Taco Bell guy, the office janitor, or other such positions? Why was I NOT tipping the coffee house guy before but now there are tip buckets everywhere? Was I dick for NOT tipping him BEFORE the tip bucket became common in EVERY SINGLE business? Things just make absolutely no sense and that is the frustration. Gratuities have nothing to do with the level of service anymore and have become a societal mandated fee. I know friends in restaurants that have had waiters that were completely inattentive, and sometimes even rude, but still felt compelled to leave a tip lest they be labeled a "dick." You say, "why not give the option to leave a tip." The reason is because it slowly becomes LESS of an option and more of an obligation. Take the coffee house example. Go on any barista forum and you will see that ANY person that doesn't tip is a dick. So now it is just expected when before there wasn't even an option to tip and no one had an issue. THAT right there is the problem. It is the attitude of the person getting the "gratuity" where once it was appreciated but now it is expected.
> 
> With that in mind, bring in Uber and my specific gripe with this whole issue. When Uber first came out it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You pull up the app, you get in the car, you get out. No fuss, no tip, no nothing. THAT was the understanding between all parties involved. The drivers went into it knowing what they were getting, the passengers knew what they were paying. People take issue with the wording they use. Tips included, now tips not required. The language doesn't matter. The point was the fare covered the transaction and nothing additional was needed. People like me were happy to see a system like that. That is what we wish everything we dealt with in life was like. Now the ONE place that we had made progress is under attack. All these drivers that are unhappy with the current Uber arrangement are once again making us feel like dicks because we are using the system as it was intended. Why are WE the dicks? Why should WE leave Uber? The system was set up like this so why can't you just accept that or YOU move on to another service or find a different part time job? I understand that Uber might not pay what you are happy with but what about that makes it MY problem now? The drivers were happy with the rate as it was before Uber screwed them and took a larger cut. I'm not paying any less for the service than I was so why should I make up the difference by NOW offering a "gratuity" when none was ever part of the "social contract" for this service? The issue is, your problem is with Uber, NOT the passenger. I keep seeing comments about slave labor and this and that. Seriously? Where do you think half your clothes come from? Where do you think your precious iPhones come from? You do know people were committing suicide in that factory right? Stop acting all high and mighty only when it is an issue that affects you. This is far from slave labor and you all need to lay off the hyperbole.


Most likely, you probably are paying less for the same service, but, by using plastic (debit or credit) you don't feel or notice the pain of paying with cash.


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## UberHammer

You know, I've heard so many times people say if drivers don't like Uber's tip policy, then they should just leave Uber.

But Uber's tip policy is the same policy every business has. Not one business requires customers to tip. A tip by it's very nature is voluntary. Drivers who complain about Uber and tipping aren't complaining about Uber's policy. They're complaining about Uber saying things publically that is clearly an attempt to change the tipping culture of this country.

For those that defend what Uber is doing...IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CULTURE IN THIS COUNTRY THEN LEAVE!!!!!!


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## RedLightFinder

There's no need to tip said:


> And here we go. Case in point. Completely ignore the issue and respond with an ad hominem attack. Slavery was also as American as apple pie. So was women having no rights.... Yep, guess things never change for the better huh...


Slavery was worldwide.
Not all women have rights.
When you Give freely, it returns 10 fold!


----------



## pengduck

joeactuary said:


> I hope you're not saying what I think you are! No, I don't dig out 3 dimes to tip for a $2 drink. I tip $1.


The bartender does no less work for a $2 drink than a $10 drink!


----------



## HiFareLoRate

Sooner or later we all will be tipped a lumped lawsuit sum.


----------



## UberHammer

joeactuary said:


> I hope you're not saying what I think you are! No, I don't dig out 3 dimes to tip for a $2 drink. I tip $1.


Only cheap bastards order $2 drinks.

Then again, Uber caters to cheap bastards with its rates and minimum fares. So thanks to Uber bartenders are now serving bars with a lot of non-tipping customers ordering cheap drinks who prior to Uber were staying home drinking cans of Natural Ice and Pabst Blue Ribbon. Sucks to be a bartender now.

Drivers aren't the only ones being dicked over by Uber.


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## sellkatsell44

Wtf (that's where) do you get a drink for $2?

Happy hour here means $5 cocktails.

Screw u non-tech cities!


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## Dar-K

sellkatsell44 said:


> Wtf (that's where) do you get a drink for $2?
> 
> Happy hour here means $5 cocktails.
> 
> Screw u non-tech cities!


I frequent a bar that does nightly 2-4-1's (so it's $4 for 2-bottles 20 ounce beers). They have a bar where they do 3-4-1's, but that 3rd beer sometimes gets too warm by the time you get to it..


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## texxazz

I dont know why anyone is griping about tips at all. If you dont like not getting tips then get behind the wheel and drive and make some. It does not matter if Ubers policy is "no tipping is required". Personally I get plenty of tips from Uber passengers, and they dont mind at all that the app doesnt have a place for them, they woop out the cash and while I'm telling them tipping is not required they say,.....but I want to, so here, take my money. I do, and they are happy, and I'm happy, and I pick up more passengers and I get more tips. I drive for Lyft and Uber and I get as much or more tips from Uber pax than I do from Lyft pax using the app for the tip. Customer service baby. I dont have disco balls in my car...nor do I supply sandwiches. I just supply a clean car, pleasant convo and a safe trip and people are happy for it.


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## Dar-K

texxazz said:


> I dont know why anyone is griping about tips at all. If you dont like not getting tips then get behind the wheel and drive and make some. It does not matter if Ubers policy is "no tipping is required". Personally I get plenty of tips from Uber passengers, and they dont mind at all that the app doesnt have a place for them, they woop out the cash and while I'm telling them tipping is not required they say,.....but I want to, so here, take my money. I do, and they are happy, and I'm happy, and I pick up more passengers and I get more tips. I drive for Lyft and Uber and I get as much or more tips from Uber pax than I do from Lyft pax using the app for the tip. Customer service baby. I dont have disco balls in my car...nor do I supply sandwiches. I just supply a clean car, pleasant convo and a safe trip and people are happy for it.


... I bet tips are more frequent present-day versus when Uber first started. Patience, tips may become more frequent in-time. It's a slow-moving awareness campaign. -- Some people are oblivious to that drivers wish it was included, others are simply just cheap, and also some just do it because it feels weird not to.


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## promdog

This is a tough thread to read. So, what I gather is this:


When Uber first started, they did not have a "Tip" option and their app. They paid over $2/mile. UberX also required permits to conform with regulations. Passengers provided a cash tip when they wanted to and all was good.....
After Lyft came onto the scene and started their donation-based, permit-less driver services, UberX started to figure out ways to compete. Later, Lyft started paying by the mile and UberX competed. TNC war began. Passengers still provided a tip when they wanted to either with cash or through app (lyft).
Lyft lowered their rates. UberX lowered their rates.... and on it goes. Drivers are, over all getting paid less. Passengers still provided a tip when they wanted to either with cash or through app (lyft).
Now that drivers are getting paid less by their respective TNC companies, they want to pressure the passenger to make up the difference in tips. In other words, they want to liken themselves to a bartender or waitress....
Shouldn't Uber drivers be more upset about the rate Uber now pays them versus itching about whether or not they get a tip from the passenger?

Can someone please post the definition of the word, "tip" again?


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## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> Gratuities used to be reserved for situations where someone in a service industry went above and beyond for you


With all due respect, do you not feel that the uber driver,picking you up in minutes, charging 1/3 the cost of traditional car service, using his own car, fuel, and insurance, who drove you safely from A to B did not go above and beyond?


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## Uberduberdoo

Can someone please post the definition of the word, "tip" again?[/QUOTE]
Tips "to insure prompt service" tip " to ensure performance"


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## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> With all due respect, do you not feel that the uber driver,picking you up in minutes, charging 1/3 the cost of traditional car service, using his own car, fuel, and insurance, who drove you safely from A to B did not go above and beyond?


I do this for my wife and friends all the time. They never tip me. 

So, an uber driver who takes a little longer to pick you up, charges more than 1/3 the cost of traditional car service, uses someone else's car, fuel, and no insurance, and also drives erratically from A to B is not going above and beyond? Sounds like it takes more work, thought, and risk to *not* go "above and beyond".


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## Dar-K

The problem with lowered rates and complaining about them, is that its easy to reduce the rates, but hard to increase them. Does it surge more often because of reduced rates? Maybe - if people stay offline until the surge happens. 
Tips - in cash form, are typically nice and sometimes fill the gap for how those short Min rides that drivers hate doing..


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## Uberduberdoo

In discussions, spin goes both ways. In reality its the passengers perseption that dictates the outcome. Why does one passenger tip and another does not, both knowing "tip not necessary"? What are the differing thought processes?


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## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> In discussions, spin goes both ways. In reality its the passengers perseption that dictates the outcome. Why does one passenger tip and another does not, both knowing "tip not necessary"? What are the differing thought processes?


*Awesome Question!

Answer:* Knowledge! Education!

When I first took Uber as a passenger, I didn't tip. I had heard that "Tip Included". *Then*, I started educating myself on TNC. I found out how little drivers actually made and the *real* reason why there was no tip. Drivers are told, by Uber, to decline the tip on first request. However, if you insist, they will take it. I started testing this.

Me: Hey guy, here a tip.
Uber Driver: Oh no no no... I couldn't.
Me: But but....I insist 
Uber Driver: OK!

After awhile, I cut to the chase and would just say, "I know the drill....I offer this tip. You'll decline. I'll then insist. Now just take it." *Smile*


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## Uberduberdoo

The knowledge and education answer certainly makes sense as it applies to those whom infact look for it. But the vast majority of passengers are not looking for an answer. I highly doubt there are many passengers that give a tip because they know what little the driver really makes.
We certainly know why most don't tip. Uber says, not necessary. Everyone that gets the app is aware of the "not necessary to tip" feed though some still do tip. Why do they? Perhaps there are a few that just don't pay attention to the details. To them it's a taxi app but cheaper so they go through the normal motion as with a taxi and tip the driver. But still there are those that just do it, they tip, finding it
"is necessary" notwithstanding prior reasons. What are they thinking?
One thing is for certain, nearly every passenger that exits the car at their destination has "tip" on their mind at that very moment. If you believe that to be true, why is that?


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## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> Everyone that gets the app is aware of the "not necessary to tip" feed though some still do tip. Why do they? Perhaps there are a few that just don't pay attention to the details. To them it's a taxi app but cheaper so they go through the normal motion as with a taxi and tip the driver. But still there are those that just do it, they tip, finding it
> "is necessary" notwithstanding prior reasons. What are they thinking?


I too can't wrap my head around this. I guarantee you, even if there was a restaurant that paid their workers $18 an hour , people would STILL "tip" and make for not doing so. I have heard the mentality is since that person is "serving" me, I should "take care of them." Or you should tip because they are doing something you didn't want to do yourself, etc... You know what, I don't want to fix my car either but I don't tip my mechanic.



Uberduberdoo said:


> With all due respect, do you not feel that the uber driver,picking you up in minutes, charging 1/3 the cost of traditional car service, using his own car, fuel, and insurance, who drove you safely from A to B did not go above and beyond?


No, I honestly don't. What you just described IS THE EXACT JOB, no more, no less. Picking me up in minutes (why wouldn't you if that is your job?), charging what Uber says they can charge (they don't even have anything to do with the price so why is this relevant), using their car, fuel, insurance, and not killing me in the process is NOT above and beyond. As I mentioned, certain things I do feel are above the line of duty such as providing charging cables, candies, water, lifting heavy bags and bringing them all the way to and from the door, etc... Just doing the job as required by their contract with Uber is not above and beyond to me.


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## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> I too can't wrap my head around this.


I'll be clear, I have my answer(s) and *can *wrap my head around this. My questions are not looking for or asking for yours or anybodys justification for not tipping. They're simply provoking thought. By the way, I tip my mechanic 



There's no need to tip said:


> No, I honestly don't.


 Above and beyond .....Thank you for your answer. You only needed the first four words, all the others don't matter.
There is a troll out here you may want to collaborate with, Coldrider. He disappeared just around the same time you came around.


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## ColdRider

Uberduberdoo said:


> I'll be clear, I have my answer(s) and *can *wrap my head around this. My questions are not looking for or asking for yours or anybodys justification for not tipping. They're simply provoking thought. By the way, I tip my mechanic
> 
> Above and beyond .....Thank you for your answer. You only needed the first four words, all the others don't matter.
> There is a troll out here you may want to collaborate with, Coldrider. He disappeared just around the same time you came around.


Lol at you. Really, trying to insinuate that I created a second account to mess with you uber drivers is tin foil hat worthy. Are you really that simple?

Just because my thoughts oppose yours, doesn't make me a troll. If everyone agreed with each other, this will be a very boring world, don't you think?


----------



## Uberduberdoo

Ahhh, there you are, I knew you would surface. I was seeking to put you two together and apparently we are half way there. Our disagreement certainly does not make you a troll. You are correct about how a very boring world it would be


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> I'll be clear, I have my answer(s) and *can *wrap my head around this. My questions are not looking for or asking for yours or anybodys justification for not tipping. They're simply provoking thought. By the way, I tip my mechanic
> 
> Above and beyond .....Thank you for your answer. You only needed the first four words, all the others don't matter.
> There is a troll out here you may want to collaborate with, Coldrider. He disappeared just around the same time you came around.


So I have told you why I feel it ISN'T above and beyond yet you haven't explained why you think it is. What part of what you said do you think is doing just what the job requires?


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> So I have told you why I feel it ISN'T above and beyond yet you haven't explained why you think it is. What part of what you said do you think is doing just what the job requires?


With all due respect, I didn't ask you *why *you feel the way you do. I simply asked you whether or not you think the Uber driver goes above and beyond. You answered no. Thankyou. I don't seem to recall where I stated it is above and beyond.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> With all due respect, I didn't ask you *why *you feel the way you do. I simply asked you whether or not you think the Uber driver goes above and beyond. You answered no. Thankyou. I don't seem to recall where I stated it is above and beyond.


"With all due respect, do you not feel that" seemed to indicate you held the opposite belief. I apologize if that assumption was incorrect.


----------



## Altima ATL

There's no need to tip said:


> only AFTER Uber slashed your rates


Incorrect statement - the Tip Option has been in contention since day one! not just after the latest round of rate cuts.


----------



## promdog

Altima ATL said:


> Incorrect statement - the Tip Option has been in contention since day one! not just after the latest round of rate cuts.


Prove it. Cite your source.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Altima ATL said:


> Incorrect statement - the Tip Option has been in contention since day one! not just after the latest round of rate cuts.


Obviously the drivers didn't like it from the start but it was just sort of accepted when everyone was living the fat life. When times got lean that is when all this whining really amped up and the customers became "the dicks" for not tipping while using an all inclusive service.


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## Uberduberdoo

UBER TECHNOLOGY SERVICES AGREEMENT section 4.1
Neither the fare or the fare calculation includes any gratuity.


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> UBER TECHNOLOGY SERVICES AGREEMENT section 4.1
> Neither the fair or the fair calculation includes any gratuity.


Is this supposed to be proof that the contention of the tip has been around since "day one"? Where is the date and link to your source?


----------



## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> Is this supposed to be proof that the contention of the tip has been around since "day one"? Where is the date and link to your source?


No, not supposed to be proof. Simply showing the fact that gratuity is not included in the fare. As some may think it is all inclusive. 
As uber is the source. As to the date; The latest update to that service agreement is 12/11/2015


----------



## UberHammer

Uberduberdoo said:


> In discussions, spin goes both ways. In reality its the passengers perseption that dictates the outcome. Why does one passenger tip and another does not, both knowing "tip not necessary"? What are the differing thought processes?


One passenger tips for the same reason they tip at full service restaurants where it is also "tip not necessary". They tip because they appreciate good service. People who don't appreciate good service don't tip.

The truth is most people don't appreciate good service... at least not enough to tip for it... but they tip at restaurants anyway because they don't want to look like the cheap bastard that they are to their friends and family dining with them.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

UberHammer said:


> One passenger tips for the same reason they tip at full service restaurants where it is also "tip not necessary". They tip because they appreciate good service. People who don't appreciate good service don't tip.
> 
> The truth is most people don't appreciate good service... at least not enough to tip for it... but they tip at restaurants anyway because they don't want to look like the cheap bastard that they are to their friends and family dining with them.


----------



## promdog

UberHammer said:


> One passenger tips for the same reason they tip at full service restaurants where it is also "tip not necessary". They tip because they appreciate good service. People who don't appreciate good service don't tip.
> 
> The truth is most people don't appreciate good service... at least not enough to tip for it... but they tip at restaurants anyway because they don't want to look like the cheap bastard that they are to their friends and family dining with them.


This is BS. Especially when you have restaurants with these *mandatory *15-20% gratuity requirements for large party of customers. BS BS BS... Service could be totally pathetic, and yet you are required to tip (and tip big) because you are in a larger party.


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## UberHammer

promdog said:


> This is BS. Especially when you have restaurants with these *mandatory *15-20% gratuity requirements for large party of customers. BS BS BS... Service could be totally pathetic, and yet you are required to tip (and tip big) because you are in a larger party.


Thank you for pointing out that tipping in restaurants is mandatory ONLY for large parties. For all other patrons it's not necessary.


----------



## wethepeople

There's no need to tip said:


> And who is forcing you, or anyone else for that matter, to drive for Uber? If Lyft or the other companies were so great why are we having this conversation? Like it or not Uber was started as a cashless tipless system. Many people in the general public found this refreshing as an escape from the nightmare tip culture this country has become. At some point you guys need to take responsibility for your own actions. You are big boys and girls and can CHOOSE to drive for Uber or not. Why strong-arm the customer to do something or feel guilty about something that was never originally intended yet you guys signed up and agreed to anyway? I say bravo to Uber for that stance and that language. If this isn't what the public wants, they won't survive.


WOW ! what a guy...

telling me and most of us Uber & Lyft drivers to go find another job if we don't like it?

I really hope for you that you never get trapped in a situation like many taxi, uber and lyft drivers are in.

You might have had a better education than us drivers (paid for by daddy and mommy??)
You might have a better job than we have but we were not even jealous about you making more money than we do, because we have something very valuable that you unfortunately never learned : IT IS CALLED RESPECT.

It's not about tipping itself, it's about sharing a little bit with someone less fortunate but someone who is still in charge for something very very valuable:
YOUR SAFETY AND YOUR COMFORT.

For example : why would I give a shit about if you feel comfy in my car and safe with my defensive way to drive you around town?
Why would I do things like helping you in and out of my car at least when you take your lady out to town?
I usually only open doors if it's a lady or a couple to make the guy look good. I don't have to it says nowhere in my Uber contract that I have to open doors or have to offer a nice smooth conversation if the customer is in the mood for some smalltalk.
I could just sit there and drive you like a BOX OR PACKAGE IN A TRUCK.

But i have choosen to offer you a professional and safe ride in a Mercedes C-class which I operate for $1.00 per mile so I don't really make good money, but i survive and can pay my bills on time.. I see you as a human being and I will go the extra mile for you.

I believe it's time for you to treat us like human beings as well and with a little tip you can show that you respect us the same way that we respect you.

In fact I very often hear drivers complaining about the missing tip button - but let me say that i like it much better than driving for Lyft with their magical tip button.. I just do a very few trips per week for Lyft so I know and remember exactly the people and the conversations we had..
People just act like they would always generously tip their drivers, but the daily statement prooves that only a very very little percentage of Lyft pax tipped.

I have far better options with the way uber works.. Tips are cash and really taxfree.
Only people with respect deserve 5 stars.
the rest in best case 4 or less if they made me wait for free like an idiot.


----------



## wethepeople

There's no need to tip said:


> 1. 33
> 2. New York
> 3. Attorney (but not an excessively highly paid NYC corporate lawyer)


AND THAT'S NOW REALLY FUNNY !!! You're an Attorney ?? that's total BS
If you really were why would you waste time to discuss stupid things with "simple people" like us?

You're a security guard, bored at work in the best case lol..

An attorney discussing with Taxidrivers about tips lol.. come on :-D


----------



## Backdash

There's no need to tip said:


> You know what, I don't want to fix my car either but I don't tip my mechanic.


I tip my car mechanic, the wrench monkey at the bike shop, the car wash guys, the valet guy at the airport who handles my luggage for 45 seconds, the valet parking guys, taxi drivers, livery drivers, Uber/Lyft drivers, the guy who cuts my hair, wait staff, bartenders, etc..
Holiday season I tip my mailman and my garbage men.

I don't tip my doctor, my dentist.
Go figure...


----------



## sicky

There's no need to tip said:


> And who is forcing you, or anyone else for that matter, to drive for Uber? If Lyft or the other companies were so great why are we having this conversation? Like it or not Uber was started as a cashless tipless system. Many people in the general public found this refreshing as an escape from the nightmare tip culture this country has become. At some point you guys need to take responsibility for your own actions. You are big boys and girls and can CHOOSE to drive for Uber or not. Why strong-arm the customer to do something or feel guilty about something that was never originally intended yet you guys signed up and agreed to anyway? I say bravo to Uber for that stance and that language. If this isn't what the public wants, they won't survive.


I know I am late to this conversation, but you repeatedly state that nobody is providing you with a valid counter argument, so I will give it my best.

I actually agree with you that the tipping culture in this society is out of control and would prefer restaurants, Uber, etc to raise their rates and therefore abolish the tip system. However, I also know that the waitress or Uber driver is earning a substandard wage and feel that using their services comes with a moral obligation to help them out. If I cannot afford it or think that tipping is wrong, I should not use their services and purchase a service where the worker earns a livable wage and tipping is not expected. My dissatisfaction with tipping culture should not penalize the person who is providing me with the service. You are directly hurting the waitress and not the restaurant when you don't tip.

I also understand your argument that Uber states that "there's no need to tip", so therefore, tipping should not be expected. Uber came in and made great advancements in the taxi industry and started with high enough rates that tipping was not needed. In fact, they were on course to completely abolish the tipping system of the taxi industry. Uber then slashed rates many times and made it so that the only way Uber drivers can get by is with tips, thereby bringing the tipping system back to the limelight. Your anger should be directed at uber and not the drivers. You should boycott Uber and/or write them about rates being too low. Not tipping doesn't affect Uber's bottom line, only the driver's.

Furthermore, your primary argument is based on the idea that a person can "choose to drive for Uber or not." You are correct on this. However, low wages are trending in the USA and leaving Uber to work another low wage job leaves the driver in the same predicament of not being able to pay their bills. All workers in all low wage industries should be rising up to demand higher wages. You cannot fault Uber drivers for desiring a livable wage.

The largest employer in the USA is Walmart, who pays an average of $8.80 per hour (this includes the millionaire executive salaries). By comparison, in 1955 the largest employer was GM, who paid their workers (in today's dollars) on average $37 per hour. The trend of the wealthiest hoarding all they can while impoverishing and eliminating the middle class is something we all should take issue with. I would like to change the way Uber does business, but for now all I can do is tip.

As an Attorney, you certainly make enough money to help out a struggling driver with a few dollars when they provide you with good service. By not tipping, you are being just as greedy as Uber.


----------



## ColdRider

sicky said:


> I know I am late to this conversation, but you repeatedly state that nobody is providing you with a valid counter argument, so I will give it my best.
> 
> I actually agree with you that the tipping culture in this society is out of control and would prefer restaurants, Uber, etc to raise their rates and therefore abolish the tip system. However, I also know that the waitress or Uber driver is earning a substandard wage and feel that using their services comes with a moral obligation to help them out. If I cannot afford it or think that tipping is wrong, I should not use their services and purchase a service where the worker earns a livable wage and tipping is not expected. My dissatisfaction with tipping culture should not penalize the person who is providing me with the service. You are directly hurting the waitress and not the restaurant when you don't tip.
> 
> I also understand your argument that Uber states that "there's no need to tip", so therefore, tipping should not be expected. Uber came in and made great advancements in the taxi industry and started with high enough rates that tipping was not needed. In fact, they were on course to completely abolish the tipping system of the taxi industry. Uber then slashed rates many times and made it so that the only way Uber drivers can get by is with tips, thereby bringing the tipping system back to the limelight. Your anger should be directed at uber and not the drivers. You should boycott Uber and/or write them about rates being too low. Not tipping doesn't affect Uber's bottom line, only the driver's.
> 
> Furthermore, your primary argument is based on the idea that a person can "choose to drive for Uber or not." You are correct on this. However, low wages are trending in the USA and leaving Uber to work another low wage job leaves the driver in the same predicament of not being able to pay their bills. All workers in all low wage industries should be rising up to demand higher wages. You cannot fault Uber drivers for desiring a livable wage.
> 
> The largest employer in the USA is Walmart, who pays an average of $8.80 per hour (this includes the millionaire executive salaries). By comparison, in 1955 the largest employer was GM, who paid their workers (in today's dollars) on average $37 per hour. The trend of the wealthiest hoarding all they can while impoverishing and eliminating the middle class is something we all should take issue with. I would like to change the way Uber does business, but for now all I can do is tip.
> 
> As an Attorney, you certainly make enough money to help out a struggling driver with a few dollars when they provide you with good service. By not tipping, you are being just as greedy as Uber.


Walmart employs over one million people in the U.S. alone. Why should they pay their employees higher? A friend of mine once worked there. He would tell me how he would spend hours not doing anything and still get paid. There are literally millions of people that can do the work, they don't need to pay more.

I choose not to shop there. Do you?

GM did pay well. They also needed a bailout... Many of their bigger plants are leaving this country.

Don't assume just because he's an attorney, that he makes enough money to help out struggling drivers. You know how much a law degree costs? You don't know if he's still paying off student loans. I'm getting an engineering degree at a private school and it's not cheap.


----------



## sicky

ColdRider said:


> Walmart employs over one million people in the U.S. alone. Why should they pay their employees higher? A friend of mine once worked there. He would tell me how he would spend hours not doing anything and still get paid. There are literally millions of people that can do the work, they don't need to pay more.
> 
> I choose not to shop there. Do you?
> 
> GM did pay well. They also needed a bailout... Many of their bigger plants are leaving this country.
> 
> Don't assume just because he's an attorney, that he makes enough money to help out struggling drivers. You know how much a law degree costs? You don't know if he's still paying off student loans. I'm getting an engineering degree at a private school and it's not cheap.


Walmart should pay their employees higher so that their employees don't rely on government benefits just to survive. Anybody who works full time deserves to earn enough money to pay for rent, utilities and food. Middle class taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize Walmart's low wages so that Walmart can make $17 billion per year profit. They would be forced to pay a living wage if the wealthiest in this country weren't able to buy politicians and their decisions.

Please note that I mentioned GM's pay in 1955 and the bailout wasn't until 2009. Since GM's golden years, there have been major internal changes major policy changes in the country. GM paid quite well and didn't need a bailout when they paid a living wage. It wasn't until Ronald Reagan implemented major tax cuts for the wealthiest in America that GM started to falter. Executive compensation skyrocketed and average worker compensation decreased when compared to inflation. GM didn't keep innovating and Automakers from other countries were able to get a step ahead.

It is difficult for me to fathom how people on this site can defend corporate greed. I am not accusing, but would like to ask you truthfully, do you work for Uber ColdRider? Normal people should be disgusted that Uber can be worth billions and provide no benefits and meagre compensation to their drivers. Adding to that, they refuse to follow employment law and drivers have no unemployment or social security insurance to fall back on. If America's employment model keeps following Uber's lead, there will be no middle class left. Just a few very rich people and many, many poor.


----------



## ColdRider

sicky said:


> Walmart should pay their employees higher so that their employees don't rely on government benefits just to survive. Anybody who works full time deserves to earn enough money to pay for rent, utilities and food. Middle class taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize Walmart's low wages so that Walmart can make $17 billion per year profit. They would be forced to pay a living wage if the wealthiest in this country weren't able to buy politicians and their decisions.
> 
> Please note that I mentioned GM's pay in 1955 and the bailout wasn't until 2009. Since GM's golden years, there have been major internal changes major policy changes in the country. GM paid quite well and didn't need a bailout when they paid a living wage. It wasn't until Ronald Reagan implemented major tax cuts for the wealthiest in America that GM started to falter. Executive compensation skyrocketed and average worker compensation decreased when compared to inflation. GM didn't keep innovating and Automakers from other countries were able to get a step ahead.
> 
> It is difficult for me to fathom how people on this site can defend corporate greed. I am not accusing, but would like to ask you truthfully, do you work for Uber ColdRider? Normal people should be disgusted that Uber can be worth billions and provide no benefits and meagre compensation to their drivers. Adding to that, they refuse to follow employment law and drivers have no unemployment or social security insurance to fall back on. If America's employment model keeps following Uber's lead, there will be no middle class left. Just a few very rich people and many, many poor.


I agree that I would like Walmart employees to stop relying on handouts but nobody should expect to be able to progress by working at a place that sells everything so cheap. This goes for fast food and other low paying jobs as well. These jobs are like the first job people get in high school, nobody should make a career of it unless you can lead and get into upper management.

I used to make $40k a year driving a forklift but I got tired of it and yes, GREEDY, so I went back to school. Plumbers and electricians can make about $30/hr, who's stopping these people from learning something valuable?

I'm sure the bailout was more complex. The fact of the matter is, many American cars suck. It's hard to continue to pay high wages when your company is losing money.

Corporate greed? Why do most create a business? To make money. I'm not defending it, I'm just sure if I had a business, I would like to be very profitable.

Uber is only worth billions because people have invested billions of I'm not mistaken. Truth be told, it was a good idea but other companies can do the exact same thing and have been. Uber is banking on being the only choice other than cabs/livery. Lyft is still around but we seen what happened to sidecar.

And no, I don't work for uber. I'm just a passenger with an opposing view.


----------



## Backdash

ColdRider said:


> Corporate greed? Why do most create a business? To make money.


Greed and wanting to be as profitable as possible are two completely different things.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

This is a drivers forum. Why would non drivers even think about coming here in the first place? Please advise.


----------



## sicky

ColdRider said:


> I agree that I would like Walmart employees to stop relying on handouts but nobody should expect to be able to progress by working at a place that sells everything so cheap. This goes for fast food and other low paying jobs as well. These jobs are like the first job people get in high school, nobody should make a career of it unless you can lead and get into upper management.
> 
> I used to make $40k a year driving a forklift but I got tired of it and yes, GREEDY, so I went back to school. Plumbers and electricians can make about $30/hr, who's stopping these people from learning something valuable?
> 
> I'm sure the bailout was more complex. The fact of the matter is, many American cars suck. It's hard to continue to pay high wages when your company is losing money.
> 
> Corporate greed? Why do most create a business? To make money. I'm not defending it, I'm just sure if I had a business, I would like to be very profitable.
> 
> Uber is only worth billions because people have invested billions of I'm not mistaken. Truth be told, it was a good idea but other companies can do the exact same thing and have been. Uber is banking on being the only choice other than cabs/livery. Lyft is still around but we seen what happened to sidecar.
> 
> And no, I don't work for uber. I'm just a passenger with an opposing view.


I don't think someone is greedy for wanting to make more money, I think people are greedy when they make money doing what Walmart, Uber and many other companies are doing. Combine what was discussed with tax avoidance schemes and yes, I call that greedy.

Good luck with your engineering degree. My bachelors was in geotechnical engineering and I quickly learned that it wasn't for me. Ended up with a masters in geophysics and that worked out well until oil crashed. The company I worked for made tens of millions profit per year, but they fairly compensated their employees.


----------



## sicky

Uberduberdoo said:


> This is a drivers forum. Why would non drivers even think about coming here in the first place? Please advise.


Personally, I don't have a problem with hearing passengers' points of view.

I'm pretty sure ColdRider is just on here trying to justify why he doesn't tip, because somewhere deep down he feels guilty knowing he's contributing towards others hardships.


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## ColdRider

sicky said:


> Personally, I don't have a problem with hearing passengers' points of view.
> 
> I'm pretty sure ColdRider is just on here trying to justify why he doesn't tip, because somewhere deep down he feels guilty knowing he's contributing towards others hardships. I would also make a bet that he voted for Romney even though none of Romney's "plans" would have benefited anybody but the wealthiest 1%.
> 
> These are just my educated guesses...


I will admit I'm not a huge fan of increases in taxes without cuts in spending.

If people are waiting around for government to come save them, they may die waiting. Most of them at least. Doesn't matter which way I vote, if I want something, I have to go get it.

I don't feel guilty that I don't tip. Making some money is better than making no money at all I guess. But people should really stop and think before they take the plunge and try to make a career from driving a car. How much money can someone expect to make driving a car?

Thanks for the wishes on the degree. I'm sure I may later find out that I'm not into it either but I also have other options. I'm also sorry to hear about the problems arising from oil crashing.


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## Uberduberdoo

sicky said:


> Personally, I don't have a problem with hearing passengers' points of view.


Nor do I, with out differing opinions there would be lack of discussion. Just seems to me that blatantly naming your self "coldrider" or "there's no need to tip" obviously sparks purpusful disruption. I'd like to know what the underlying issues are with that and offer some help....
are there passengers forums?


----------



## sicky

Government is definitely not looking out for the middle class, but it doesn't seem they need to considering many citizens are ok with insatiable greed from corporate America. You are right that neither party is going to get us what we want.

It's not that we want to get rich driving a car. It's that currently we are pretty much trading the value of our vehicles for cash and we feel that riders and Uber are taking advantage of us. We do deserve at least minimum wage and basic employment benefits that are required by law for normal employment. I'm only driving because day care is unaffordable with minimum wage jobs, so I need to pick my hours and only work when my wife isn't working. I will hopefully have a better job before my vehicle dies and then only drive holidays. Driving can be fun, but some passengers are abysmal. I think I would hate driving if I was doing it full time. This is probably why people hate taxi drivers.

Uberduberdoo-I do agree that they need a passenger forum. I would love to get more passenger views and have open discourse with them.


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## There’s no need to tip

wethepeople said:


> WOW ! what a guy...
> 
> telling me and most of us Uber & Lyft drivers to go find another job if we don't like it?
> 
> I really hope for you that you never get trapped in a situation like many taxi, uber and lyft drivers are in.
> 
> You might have had a better education than us drivers (paid for by daddy and mommy??)
> You might have a better job than we have but we were not even jealous about you making more money than we do, because we have something very valuable that you unfortunately never learned : IT IS CALLED RESPECT.
> 
> It's not about tipping itself, it's about sharing a little bit with someone less fortunate but someone who is still in charge for something very very valuable:
> YOUR SAFETY AND YOUR COMFORT.
> 
> For example : why would I give a shit about if you feel comfy in my car and safe with my defensive way to drive you around town?
> Why would I do things like helping you in and out of my car at least when you take your lady out to town?
> I usually only open doors if it's a lady or a couple to make the guy look good. I don't have to it says nowhere in my Uber contract that I have to open doors or have to offer a nice smooth conversation if the customer is in the mood for some smalltalk.
> I could just sit there and drive you like a BOX OR PACKAGE IN A TRUCK.
> 
> But i have choosen to offer you a professional and safe ride in a Mercedes C-class which I operate for $1.00 per mile so I don't really make good money, but i survive and can pay my bills on time.. I see you as a human being and I will go the extra mile for you.
> 
> I believe it's time for you to treat us like human beings as well and with a little tip you can show that you respect us the same way that we respect you.
> 
> In fact I very often hear drivers complaining about the missing tip button - but let me say that i like it much better than driving for Lyft with their magical tip button.. I just do a very few trips per week for Lyft so I know and remember exactly the people and the conversations we had..
> People just act like they would always generously tip their drivers, but the daily statement prooves that only a very very little percentage of Lyft pax tipped.


First of all, if "what you have" was so valuable we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have come on here and treated everyone (except for a jab or 2 here or there in response to obnoxious comments) with respect. My arguments have been succinct and on point while the responses have for the most part, been hostile and insulting. So you tell me, who needs more lessons in manners.

I paid for my own education thank you very much. I've also worked since I was 16 years old. My parents taught me the benefits of hard work and no, they didn't get me the jobs I held. While I was still in college, I worked for a temp agency making around $18 an hour with no particular special skills or contacts. It is called hard work, intelligence, and determination. So go on, continue speculating about people you know nothing about. Create this fictitious scenario that you feel best fits your argument.

"It's not about tipping itself, it's about sharing a little bit with someone less fortunate." Really dude? Mercedes C-class? Did you get that car for free? Did you get a 50% discount? Want to know what I drive, a Hyundai! Did I look at the BMW 3 series, yes. Did I look at the Mercedes C-class? Yes. Could I have afforded them, sure. But I decided I just wasn't interested at this point in time. So now you deserve charity because you have an expensive car that doesn't get great gas mileage yet you drive for a living??? I make my own charitable donations thank you very much. I don't need to donate to you because you are unhappy with your job and what you are paid or the gas mileage of the vehicle you choose to drive. Once again, I am not demeaning the job itself but I don't need to "respect" you more because you drive me around in a friggin' car. I respect you and treat you no differently than I would anyone else. No more, no less. Stop making it seem like you are all altruistic giving free rides to drunk people on the weekends or those less fortunate. You drive because you get paid to do so, not out of the kindness of your heart. The FREE RIDE people to prevent drunk driving, THOSE people earn additional respect from me. There are many positions out there today that pay equal, or more than, Uber. You might not LIKE those jobs, but don't make it seem like this is indentured servitude with absolutely no way out. My father barely graduated high school, grew up with NOTHING, worked at a fish market, and eventually through hard work and determination made something of himself. He didn't sit and complain about not getting a hand out.

I also never said that tipping is NEVER called for. I listed specific situations numerous times which I felt was above and beyond service that I would have no issue throwing in a little bit more for. I'm not going to reiterate it again. Getting me to my destination without killing me is NOT tip worthy, it is the damn job. You care about it because if you don't, you no longer have a job.



wethepeople said:


> AND THAT'S NOW REALLY FUNNY !!! You're an Attorney ?? that's total BS
> If you really were why would you waste time to discuss stupid things with "simple people" like us?
> 
> You're a security guard, bored at work in the best case lol..
> 
> An attorney discussing with Taxidrivers about tips lol.. come on :-D


Yes, I am an attorney. Believe it or not, I have nothing to prove or justify to you. The reason I am wasting my time here is BECAUSE I am an attorney. If you haven't figured out that I ARGUE for a living, I don't know what to tell you. I actually enjoy it as well. Thank you for helping me hone my skills, while getting paid to do so.



Backdash said:


> I tip my car mechanic, the wrench monkey at the bike shop, the car wash guys, the valet guy at the airport who handles my luggage for 45 seconds, the valet parking guys, taxi drivers, livery drivers, Uber/Lyft drivers, the guy who cuts my hair, wait staff, bartenders, etc..
> Holiday season I tip my mailman and my garbage men.
> 
> I don't tip my doctor, my dentist.
> Go figure...


I never understood the whole mailman and garbage men thing. Some (prob all) of those guys have a better more cushy gig than some of the people tipping them! It is just plain silly to me. Do you also tip the UPS and FEDEX guys? Do you tip the heating oil guy (if you have oil)? Do you tip the janitor at your office (if an office worker)? Do you tip the grocery store clerk?


----------



## Backdash

There's no need to tip said:


> I never understood the whole mailman and garbage men thing. Some (prob all) of those guys have a better more cushy gig than some of the people tipping them! It is just plain silly to me. Do you also tip the UPS and FEDEX guys? Do you tip the heating oil guy (if you have oil)? Do you tip the janitor at your office (if an office worker)? Do you tip the grocery store clerk?


I tip the mailman because hes at my house everyday, is a great guy and does a great job for me. The tip I give him once a year has nothing to do with how much he earns a year, his benefits, if he hates or loves his job or how "cushy" it is or isn't. It's my way of saying thank you. Same with the garbage crew only they are at my place twice a week

I have tipped a janitor, helpdesk guy and the like at previous jobs when I've asked them to give me a hand with something outside of their normal duties.

Never had a heating oil guy that put a smile on my face, if I did I would tip them on the holidays. So far they all make a mess and act like I'm bothering them when I say hi.

I had a steady Fedex and UPS guy for like 5 years who I did tip on the holidays. I haven't seen either of them in a few years. I only get a handful of deliveries a year now and don't see the same guy twice. So no more holiday tips for the delivery guys.

If I had the same grocery store clerk every time I checked out I would tip them during the holidays.

I like to tip. I know that when I say thank you and hand them some cash they really get that I appreciate the effort they've shown. In my view, a simple "Thanks' or "Hey, thanks so much!" doesn't carry the same sincerity.


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## There’s no need to tip

Backdash said:


> I tip the mailman because hes at my house everyday, is a great guy and does a great job for me. The tip I give him once a year has nothing to do with how much he earns a year, his benefits, if he hates or loves his job or how "cushy" it is or isn't. It's my way of saying thank you. Same with the garbage crew only they are at my place twice a week
> 
> I have tipped a janitor, helpdesk guy and the like at previous jobs when I've asked them to give me a hand with something outside of their normal duties.
> 
> Never had a heating oil guy that put a smile on my face, if I did I would tip them on the holidays. So far they all make a mess and act like I'm bothering them when I say hi.
> 
> I had a steady Fedex and UPS guy for like 5 years who I did tip on the holidays. I haven't seen either of them in a few years. I only get a handful of deliveries a year now and don't see the same guy twice. So no more holiday tips for the delivery guys.
> 
> If I had the same grocery store clerk every time I checked out I would tip them during the holidays.
> 
> I like to tip. I know that when I say thank you and hand them some cash they really get that I appreciate the effort they've shown. In my view, a simple "Thanks' or "Hey, thanks so much!" doesn't carry the same sincerity.


What "great" job do they do for you? What are you thanking them for? That is what I don't understand. They aren't doing it because they like you (not that they don't like you) or because they are altruistic, they are doing it because it is their job and they get paid for it. I have heard stories about garbage men picking up items they aren't supposed to, or putting the cans back on the side of the house, etc... now THAT I believe is tip worthy.

"I like to tip. I know that when I say thank you and hand them some cash they really get that I appreciate the effort they've shown. In my view, a simple "Thanks' or "Hey, thanks so much!" doesn't carry the same sincerity."

I guess this is where we differ. I don't feel the need to hand someone money because saying thank you very much, I appreciate your work, isn't polite enough. In all honesty, I "appreciate" them as much as you do, I'm glad I get mail and don't have garbage, I just don't see the need to throw extra money at them for doing their job. Once again, cases where you get special treatment are completely different to me.


----------



## Backdash

There's no need to tip said:


> What "great" job do they do for you? What are you thanking them for? That is what I don't understand. They aren't doing it because they like you (not that they don't like you) or because they are altruistic, they are doing it because it is their job and they get paid for it. I have heard stories about garbage men picking up items they aren't supposed to, or putting the cans back on the side of the house, etc... now THAT I believe is tip worthy.


Does it matter how I quantify a mailman doing a great job? Like I said I want him to know that I appreciate him.
So I tip those that I feel deserve it and want thank them in what I believe is a meaningful way. You tip those you feel are worthy.
It's all good


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## Uberduberdoo

Mr. There's no need to tip, did you tip the taxi drivers before there was uber? Same question, ColdRider?


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## There’s no need to tip

Backdash said:


> Does it matter how I quantify a mailman doing a great job? Like I said I want him to know that I appreciate him.
> So I tip those that I feel deserve it. You tip those you feel are worthy.
> It's all good


Because you are the one that mentioned it. I am genuinely curious. I'm not judging you, just curious as to what you believed was so "great" with regard to that mailman or garbageman's performance over any another. Perhaps I am just reading into the words too much.



Uberduberdoo said:


> Mr. There's no need to tip, did you tip the taxi drivers before there was uber? Same question, ColdRider?


I used to tip well all the time but more recently with the prevalence of tip jars everywhere and the like, and the more I really thought about it, unless someone does something above and beyond for me, I usually only tip in situations where I am with others, and in those situations I tip well. Not because I feel what I am doing is wrong, but because some of my companions most likely believe it to be and social standing is important in life. I don't tip very high or at all in situations where I am by myself. I wouldn't choose to tip if not pressured to do so. All employees must make minimum wage either through salary or tips. If they don't get it in tips the employer must make up the difference. I don't really see a need to pay any additional money.


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## Dar-K

Surprised this topic is still on-going with such debate. 
- The only reason people are pushing the tipping debate, is because the bottom dollars that all drivers earn can be pitiful. Which, any mention of that, you get the usual response "If you don't like it, why not just quit?" - Those type of responses are about as annoying as people who point out grammar issues. Didn't know posting online was like attending an English/Writing class.
Anyways, to get back more on topic.... To those that say.. "If you don't like it, why not quit or fin something else..." Well, they're right! Well, only 1/2 right... You want change to better yourself as a driver? Group together en masses. Take Uber's when you can, get them within a group (i.e., Facebook Groups, Uber Forums, Meetups, etc.) -- Try to centralize it to one simple one. Markets can take a hit if drivers stand together. 
Remaining offline - only drive when it surges - No Surge? No Drive.... Remain offline, force it to surge. End results - You get your tip via Surge or get your compensation in raising of rates.
Supply/Demand - Saturated markets can lead potential rate cuts.. Why not?? They can lower them and riders can remain consistently busy when others walk away. 
Those who don't want to tip? Let them have to do so in the form of surges w/ extended wait times. Getting less than a $1/mile? -- Maybe low supply will raise the rates..... 
Just a thought....


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> Surprised this topic is still on-going with such debate.
> - The only reason people are pushing the tipping debate, is because the bottom dollars that all drivers earn can be pitiful. Which, any mention of that, you get the usual response "If you don't like it, why not just quit?" - Those type of responses are about as annoying as people who point out grammar issues. Didn't know posting online was like attending an English/Writing class.
> Anyways, to get back more on topic.... To those that say.. "If you don't like it, why not quit or fin something else..." Well, they're right! Well, only 1/2 right... You want change to better yourself as a driver? Group together en masses. Take Uber's when you can, get them within a group (i.e., Facebook Groups, Uber Forums, Meetups, etc.) -- Try to centralize it to one simple one. Markets can take a hit if drivers stand together.
> Remaining offline - only drive when it surges - No Surge? No Drive.... Remain offline, force it to surge. End results - You get your tip via Surge or get your compensation in raising of rates.
> Supply/Demand - Saturated markets can lead potential rate cuts.. Why not?? They can lower them and riders can remain consistently busy when others walk away.
> Those who don't want to tip? Let them have to do so in the form of surges w/ extended wait times. Getting less than a $1/mile? -- Maybe low supply will raise the rates.....
> Just a thought....


I like the way you think. I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## Backdash

There's no need to tip said:


> I usually only tip in situations where I am with others, and in those situations I tip well. Not because I feel what I am doing is wrong, but because some of my companions most likely believe it to be and social standing is important in life.


So you want want to perceived as a good tipper when someone is watching whos opinion of you is important to you in a effort to maintain your social standing, but the reality is you rarely tip and when you do it's never very high?
Am I reading that right?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Backdash said:


> So you want want to perceived as a good tipper when someone is watching whos opinion of you is important to you in a effort to maintain your social standing, but the reality is you rarely tip and when you do it's never very high?
> Am I reading that right?


Correct. In the past I was indoctrinated into the whole tipping culture the same as many others but the more I looked into it the more random and nonsensical the whole thing became. Most positions that are tipped I do not believe deserve more than minimum wage as salary. I'm not saying most don't work hard, I'm not saying I would do the jobs, so on and so forth. I believe that the salary fits the job for the most part. I think minimum wage should be a little bit higher though which is why I sometimes give a little but don't follow the standard percentage tipping scheme when by myself. Unfortunately, like I said, many others haven't come to the same realization. They buy the line most tipping people give "I only make $2.15 an hour and I still have to pay tax on the tips you don't leave" not realizing that the employer MUST make up the difference. I think if more people understood how the system worked they would see things differently. So until such time as they come around, or tipping is done away with, I am stuck with the system we have. It is just like going to your girlfriend's cousin's kid's christening. You would really rather be watching football but you just do it because you really have no choice.

THIS is why many people still tip. They don't want to deal with this response.


----------



## ColdRider

Uberduberdoo said:


> Mr. There's no need to tip, did you tip the taxi drivers before there was uber? Same question, ColdRider?


I have before, but not if the driver is going to be on his phone talking through his cheap earpiece the whole time. That's most of the time by the way.

Many start to groan when they see the plastic I pull from my wallet, guess what they get.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ColdRider said:


> I have before, but not if the driver is going to be on his phone talking through his cheap earpiece the whole time. That's most of the time by the way.
> 
> Many start to groan when they see the plastic I pull from my wallet, guess what they get.


Well I do at least understand the groan... I think they get screwed with cc transactions or so I have heard. Agree 100% with the headset shtick and will throw in erratic driving, no AC, and smelly cars.


----------



## ColdRider

There's no need to tip said:


> Well I do at least understand the groan... I think they get screwed with cc transactions or so I have heard. Agree 100% with the headset shtick and will throw in erratic driving, no AC, and smelly cars.


I've also read and heard why they're not too fond of cc transactions. That's not my fault though and I get a kick when some have tried to claim that the machine doesn't work. One guy even kindly (lol) offered to take me to an atm while meter was running, fare was like $19 and change. I gave him $20, sorry that's all I took out.

I've already posted elsewhere that I very rarely carry cash. That's one reason why I prefer using uber. I'm in and out.

Truth be told, I will make it a point to stop using uber as often this year. I'll just leave my home twenty minutes earlier and ride the train.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ColdRider said:


> I've also read and heard why they're not too fond of cc transactions. That's not my fault though and I get a kick when some have tried to claim that the machine doesn't work. One guy even kindly (lol) offered to take me to an atm while meter was running, fare was like $19 and change. I gave him $20, sorry that's all I took out.
> 
> I've already posted elsewhere that I very rarely carry cash. That's one reason why I prefer using uber. I'm in and out.
> 
> Truth be told, I will make it a point to stop using uber as often this year. I'll just leave my home twenty minutes earlier and ride the train.


I'm completely with you. I had $6 in my wallet today (and like 7 credit cards) and paid for lunch with Samsung Pay lol. I've had cabbies pull the "machine is not working" shtick on me before and I reminded them that it was illegal if I'm not informed before leaving and the fare was then free (or he could take me to an ATM which might result in me taking a VERY long time to get money - NY) and started exiting the vehicle and he told me to "give it a shot." Miraculously it worked.


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## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> I used to tip well


I will ask again; spicificly, did you tip taxi drivers before there was uber?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> I will ask again; spicificly, did you tip taxi drivers before there was uber?


My prior response was not limited to any particular employment and was all encompassing. At one point in time I was, now it is few and far between.


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## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> My prior response was not limited to any particular employment and was all encompassing. At one point in time I was, now it is few and far between.


My question was limited and spicificly for taxi drivers. If you find it difficult to answer spicificly , I'm OK with that


----------



## promdog

Backdash said:


> So you want want to perceived as a good tipper when someone is watching whos opinion of you is important to you in a effort to maintain your social standing, but the reality is you rarely tip and when you do it's never very high?
> Am I reading that right?


.....and so you want to be perceived as an almighty, moral human being by pointing out, albeit shaming, someone else by purposefully misinterpreting their intent and motives with your backhanded, tongue in cheek assessment in the form of a question????
Am I reading that weaksauce right?


----------



## john djjjoe

promdog said:


> .....and so you want to be perceived as an almighty, moral human being by pointing out, albeit shaming, someone else by purposefully misinterpreting their intent and motives with your backhanded, tongue in cheek assessment in the form of a question????
> Am I reading that weaksauce right?


I am on team notip. You can set higher rates and find your own fares if you like.


----------



## Backdash

There's no need to tip said:


> Correct. In the past I was indoctrinated into the whole tipping culture the same as many others but the more I looked into it the more random and nonsensical the whole thing became. Most positions that are tipped I do not believe deserve more than minimum wage as salary. I'm not saying most don't work hard, I'm not saying I would do the jobs, so on and so forth. I believe that the salary fits the job for the most part. I think minimum wage should be a little bit higher though which is why I sometimes give a little but don't follow the standard percentage tipping scheme when by myself. Unfortunately, like I said, many others haven't come to the same realization. They buy the line most tipping people give "I only make $2.15 an hour and I still have to pay tax on the tips you don't leave" not realizing that the employer MUST make up the difference. I think if more people understood how the system worked they would see things differently. So until such time as they come around, or tipping is done away with, I am stuck with the system we have. It is just like going to your girlfriend's cousin's kid's christening. You would really rather be watching football but you just do it because you really have no choice.
> 
> THIS is why many people still tip. They don't want to deal with this response.


Fair enough...
Like I said, I tip to show appreciation, not in response to how much somebody earns or whether I feel they are already fairly compensated for their job.


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## Backdash

promdog said:


> .....and so you want to be perceived as an almighty, moral human being by pointing out, albeit shaming, someone else by purposefully misinterpreting their intent and motives with your backhanded, tongue in cheek assessment in the form of a question????
> Am I reading that weaksauce right?


No, you misinterpreted my comment and that's partly my fault.
There's no need to tip read my question as intended and replied clearly.


----------



## elelegido

ColdRider said:


> Truth be told, I will make it a point to stop using uber as often this year. I'll just leave my home twenty minutes earlier and ride the train.


On behalf of Uber drivers everywhere, thanks.


----------



## sicky

There's no need to tip said:


> They buy the line most tipping people give "I only make $2.15 an hour and I still have to pay tax on the tips you don't leave" not realizing that the employer MUST make up the difference.
> 
> [


When my wife was in college, she worked a breakfast/lunch shift at a failing restaurant. She often did not get enough tips to make minimum wage. The employer threatened to fire her is she requested the restaurant make up the difference. They then doctored her tip slips to show she made minimum wage through tips.

Yes, this is highly illegal, but she really needed the job and it was a small town with few employment options. I have heard many servers state that they will be fired if they request the employer make up the difference.

Also, Uber is different. We are independent contractors and are not entitled to minimum wage. Even if we were, we have to report gross income, and our expenses take out a lot out of this income.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> My question was limited and spicificly for taxi drivers. If you find it difficult to answer spicificly , I'm OK with that


And my answer encompassed taxi drivers so if you have no reading comprehension skills, I'm OK with that. If you can't figure out how to properly spell SPECIFICALLY, I'm OK with that too.



Backdash said:


> No, you misinterpreted my comment and that's partly my fault.
> There's no need to tip read my question as intended and replied clearly.


Ok, understood.



sicky said:


> When my wife was in college, she worked a breakfast/lunch shift at a failing restaurant. She often did not get enough tips to make minimum wage. The employer threatened to fire her is she requested the restaurant make up the difference. They then doctored her tip slips to show she made minimum wage through tips.
> 
> Yes, this is highly illegal, but she really needed the job and it was a small town with few employment options. I have heard many servers state that they will be fired if they request the employer make up the difference.
> 
> Also, Uber is different. We are independent contractors and are not entitled to minimum wage. Even if we were, we have to report gross income, and our expenses take out a lot out of this income.


Yes, I know there is a difference between Uber drivers and other tipped professions but people keep making additional comments about tipping in general so that is why I mention it. So NOW the argument is that even though there are laws in place, it should be MY responsibility to pay additional money because someone ELSE might break the law????

As for the Uber situation.... I understand the pay might not be to your liking but as previously mentioned, Uber is not set up for tips, they were never expected for the service, you (drivers in general) made a decision to participate in this system, so I don't feel bad whatsoever not paying additional money because the drivers (some of who are driving expensive cars with bad gas mileage) are not happy with their current payout when there are many other jobs out there that DO pay minimum wage. I'm not going to pay additional money because you don't WANT to work a different job.

Uber to drivers:


----------



## ColdRider

elelegido said:


> On behalf of Uber drivers everywhere, thanks.


Oh you're very welcome.

I mean, it's not like I disrespect the drivers, make them wait or make unusual requests. I don't do short trips, I don't puke in their cars, I don't uber drunk (I barely drink by the way).

I just don't tip. I know, I know how terrible of me?!

Uber was set up as a tip-less, cashless system. But I'm sure you knew this before signing up.


----------



## promdog

Backdash said:


> No, you misinterpreted my comment and that's partly my fault.
> There's no need to tip read my question as intended and replied clearly.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Dar-K

ColdRider said:


> Oh you're very welcome.
> 
> I mean, it's not like I disrespect the drivers, make them wait or make unusual requests. I don't do short trips, I don't puke in their cars, I don't uber drunk (I barely drink by the way).
> 
> I just don't tip. I know, I know how terrible of me?!
> 
> Uber was set up as a tip-less, cashless system. But I'm sure you knew this before signing up.


In some cases, a long trip is worthy of no need to tip. If you look at it from an hourly perspective, longer trips are better. I'd rather be hung up on longer trips versus shorter trips. Minimum trips, don't pay out. I'd rather be busy 30 minutes with longer trips out of an hour versus being busy for 40 minutes with minimum trips.

I could do 2 20-minute rides or 5 5-minute rides.
The 2 20-minute rides, could probably keep me busy for 30 minutes
The 5 5-minute rides could easily keep me busy for 40 minutes
... Let's say the total fares accumulate to being the same?
You will net more with the two longer trips (you save 3 SRF's which makes up the difference of why you do better)
Also, better chance(s) of less dead-head miles, better chance to build that temporary relationship with the customer -- where if they enjoyed your company; maybe receive 5* or possibly tips if they desire. Those short minimum trips, can possibly get you tips as well but a tip from a longer rider versus a shorter ride, I'd imagine the longer ride has a better tip%.
But, the point is, you probably saved on those additional fees by reducing the trip counts... Plus, if it was even surging ever-so slightly, you can benefit even greater there. -- Think of NYE - I'd rather make out like a bandit with 1 big surge ride versus multiple lower surge rides with short trips... That 1 big ride, may 1* & will likely less impact you than multiples 1*s or low ratings due to people not caring for the surges. 
But... that's just my $0.02


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> My prior response was not limited to any particular employment and was all encompassing. At one point in time I was, now it is few and far between.


I apologize, I didn't realize what you meant when you said "at one point in time i was" meaning you were a tipper,including taxi. I will work on the comprehension. Was looking for a yes or no specifically. No big deal, message received. Thanks for the spelling, it does look better.


----------



## hanging in there

"Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear"

The problem is, they DIDN'T make that very clear, or even somewhat clear. In fact the issue I have is that they made it the OPPOSITE of clear.

I would have absolutely no problem with Uber coming out from day one and just keeping it simple, basic and honest by saying something like "We are charging a fair price for our service and do not want you to tip. The fare is the fare, no tipping is ever required, expected or needed."

Likewise, I would have no problem with pax who were anti-tipping such as yourself responding positively to such a message. And drivers would have absolutely no leg to stand on if they didn't like the "no-tipping" aspect of the pay structure set up by Uber.

Instead they have created an incredibly deceptive, purposely confusing, intricately nuanced public relations scam in the way they have presented the issue of tipping with the end result being that most pax truly believe that they are tipping the driver 20% of every fare.

First, when the pax sign up they are asked if they want the default tip for "UberTaxi" to be 20%, or to change it. Most I'm sure just accept the default, that's what I always hear anyway from feedback from pax. What they don't understand, of course, is that an Uber X, or XL, or Select or Plus, or Lux, or Black, or SUV, or POOL, or ACCESS, is NOT an "UberTaxi", and there are actually just a handful of cities that even offer "UberTaxi". Probably 95% of Uber pax never have and never will ever set foot in an "UberTaxi", yet they believe that they are tipping us all 20% of the fare every time.

This lie is further reinforced with their wording, straight from their site "Do I need to tip my driver?" "You don’t need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file — there’s no need to tip."

If you noticed, they didn't directly answer the question. They start talking about no cash needed, which is irrelevant since tipping could have easily been incorporated into the app like Lyft does, or like Uber does as a default with UberTaxi. Saying "there's no need to tip" is not the same as saying that "the tip is already included" but most people assume that is what they mean. It's a very clever play on words.

The issue, the frustration is that while some pax "get it" and like Uber BECAUSE they feel free to not tip and realize they are not tipping, most pax think they are in fact tipping the driver because of all the confusing disinformation and clever word games from Uber.

The funny thing is that when I am driving my taxi I am very happy that the Uber pax are confused/misled about tipping because when they get into my taxi they tip me 20%, or 30%, almost every time. Uber has not killed the notion of tipping for livery service, they have only convinced the pax that their imaginary 20% tip is in there somewhere floating around in that net $2.40 minimum fare. Like magic.


----------



## john djjjoe

hanging in there said:


> "Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear"
> 
> The problem is, they DIDN'T make that very clear, or even somewhat clear. In fact the issue I have is that they made it the OPPOSITE of clear.
> 
> I would have absolutely no problem with Uber coming out from day one and just keeping it simple, basic and honest by saying something like "We are charging a fair price for our service and do not want you to tip. The fare is the fare, no tipping is ever required, expected or needed."
> 
> Likewise, I would have no problem with pax who were anti-tipping such as yourself responding positively to such a message. And drivers would have absolutely no leg to stand on if they didn't like the "no-tipping" aspect of the pay structure set up by Uber.
> 
> Instead they have created an incredibly deceptive, purposely confusing, intricately nuanced public relations scam in the way they have presented the issue of tipping with the end result being that most pax truly believe that they are tipping the driver 20% of every fare.
> 
> First, when the pax sign up they are asked if they want the default tip for "UberTaxi" to be 20%, or to change it. Most I'm sure just accept the default, that's what I always hear anyway from feedback from pax. What they don't understand, of course, is that an Uber X, or XL, or Select or Plus, or Lux, or Black, or SUV, or POOL, or ACCESS, is NOT an "UberTaxi", and there are actually just a handful of cities that even offer "UberTaxi". Probably 95% of Uber pax never have and never will ever set foot in an "UberTaxi", yet they believe that they are tipping us all 20% of the fare every time.
> 
> This lie is further reinforced with their wording, straight from their site "Do I need to tip my driver?" "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> If you noticed, they didn't directly answer the question. They start talking about no cash needed, which is irrelevant since tipping could have easily been incorporated into the app like Lyft does, or like Uber does as a default with UberTaxi. Saying "there's no need to tip" is not the same as saying that "the tip is already included" but most people assume that is what they mean. It's a very clever play on words.
> 
> The issue, the frustration is that while some pax "get it" and like Uber BECAUSE they feel free to not tip and realize they are not tipping, most pax think they are in fact tipping the driver because of all the confusing disinformation and clever word games from Uber.
> 
> The funny thing is that when I am driving my taxi I am very happy that the Uber pax are confused/misled about tipping because when they get into my taxi they tip me 20%, or 30%, almost every time. Uber has not killed the notion of tipping for livery service, they have only convinced the pax that their imaginary 20% tip is in there somewhere floating around in that net $2.40 minimum fare. Like magic.


How does any of what you are saying make any meaningful difference? Isn't a fixed rate of X equivalent to a fixed rate of .8X + tip of .2X? Why don't you just pretend that whatever uber pays you, 80% is the payment and 20% is gratuity? At the point where a *gratuity* is not discretionary none of what you are saying seems relevant.


----------



## NewbUberRider

I'm a fairly new passenger to the Uber platform. I 100% agree with this thread. When I signed up for Uber, I ASSumed 20% was being added to each and every fare. I did not know the difference between, taxi, pool, X or whatever. I thought I had the ability to change that "tip" after the fare. Regardless of what more seasoned folks say, as a new user, it is not clear that a tip is not included on each and every trip, nor allowed or expected. 

Recently a coworker told me about tipping Uber drivers. I was puzzled at what he was talking about, and google lead me to this thread. The whole reason I use Uber is the platform, and it's cashless. My recommendation to drivers is educate your passengers. Don't know if your contract with Uber allows, but maybe a simple sign, WELL worded might help educate folks.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

NewbUberRider said:


> I'm a fairly new passenger to the Uber platform. I 100% agree with this thread. When I signed up for Uber, I ASSumed 20% was being added to each and every fare. I did not know the difference between, taxi, pool, X or whatever. I thought I had the ability to change that "tip" after the fare. Regardless of what more seasoned folks say, as a new user, it is not clear that a tip is not included on each and every trip, nor allowed or expected.
> 
> Recently a coworker told me about tipping Uber drivers. I was puzzled at what he was talking about, and google lead me to this thread. The whole reason I use Uber is the platform, and it's cashless. My recommendation to drivers is educate your passengers. Don't know if your contract with Uber allows, but maybe a simple sign, WELL worded might help educate folks.





hanging in there said:


> "Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear"
> 
> The problem is, they DIDN'T make that very clear, or even somewhat clear. In fact the issue I have is that they made it the OPPOSITE of clear.
> 
> I would have absolutely no problem with Uber coming out from day one and just keeping it simple, basic and honest by saying something like "We are charging a fair price for our service and do not want you to tip. The fare is the fare, no tipping is ever required, expected or needed."
> 
> Likewise, I would have no problem with pax who were anti-tipping such as yourself responding positively to such a message. And drivers would have absolutely no leg to stand on if they didn't like the "no-tipping" aspect of the pay structure set up by Uber.
> 
> Instead they have created an incredibly deceptive, purposely confusing, intricately nuanced public relations scam in the way they have presented the issue of tipping with the end result being that most pax truly believe that they are tipping the driver 20% of every fare.
> 
> First, when the pax sign up they are asked if they want the default tip for "UberTaxi" to be 20%, or to change it. Most I'm sure just accept the default, that's what I always hear anyway from feedback from pax. What they don't understand, of course, is that an Uber X, or XL, or Select or Plus, or Lux, or Black, or SUV, or POOL, or ACCESS, is NOT an "UberTaxi", and there are actually just a handful of cities that even offer "UberTaxi". Probably 95% of Uber pax never have and never will ever set foot in an "UberTaxi", yet they believe that they are tipping us all 20% of the fare every time.
> 
> This lie is further reinforced with their wording, straight from their site "Do I need to tip my driver?" "You don't need cash when you ride with Uber. Once you arrive at your destination, your fare is automatically charged to your credit card on file - there's no need to tip."
> 
> If you noticed, they didn't directly answer the question. They start talking about no cash needed, which is irrelevant since tipping could have easily been incorporated into the app like Lyft does, or like Uber does as a default with UberTaxi. Saying "there's no need to tip" is not the same as saying that "the tip is already included" but most people assume that is what they mean. It's a very clever play on words.
> 
> The issue, the frustration is that while some pax "get it" and like Uber BECAUSE they feel free to not tip and realize they are not tipping, most pax think they are in fact tipping the driver because of all the confusing disinformation and clever word games from Uber.
> 
> The funny thing is that when I am driving my taxi I am very happy that the Uber pax are confused/misled about tipping because when they get into my taxi they tip me 20%, or 30%, almost every time. Uber has not killed the notion of tipping for livery service, they have only convinced the pax that their imaginary 20% tip is in there somewhere floating around in that net $2.40 minimum fare. Like magic.


Perhaps I am just more perceptive than most, but I knew directly from the start that an ADDITIONAL 20% (or whatever amount) wasn't being added to my trip. I didn't know what the breakdown was between Uber or the driver, nor did I really care, all I knew is that Uber showed me a fare, that EXACT amount showed up on my credit card, and that whatever the split it was known and accepted by the driver as part of working for Uber. Are people really that bad with finances that they didn't realize that their $20 taxi ride (which they assumed would have an ADDITIONAL tip) didn't show up on their statement as $24 (or whatever tip percentage they put in)? At the end of the day, the original terms were acceptable to everyone, Uber now upset that balance, and the drivers are trying to make up that difference from the pax.


----------



## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> Perhaps I am just more perceptive than most, but I knew directly from the start that an ADDITIONAL 20% (or whatever amount) wasn't being added to my trip. I didn't know what the breakdown was between Uber or the driver, nor did I really care, all I knew is that Uber showed me a fare, that EXACT amount showed up on my credit card, and that whatever the split it was known and accepted by the driver as part of working for Uber. Are people really that bad with finances that they didn't realize that their $20 taxi ride (which they assumed would have an ADDITIONAL tip) didn't show up on their statement as $24 (or whatever tip percentage they put in)? At the end of the day, the original terms were acceptable to everyone, Uber now upset that balance, and the drivers are trying to make up that difference from the pax.


When Uber offset the balance, it was the passengers who gained the most... Which would make sense why driver's push for the passengers to tip. It's like, you were used to paying $10 for you typical trip, but now you are paying $8 due to the cuts. Driver's are just trying to make up for what they once had. They likely won't get it from Uber, so getting passengers to tip is the next best source.

If driving wasn't truly profitable (& I imagine in some markets it is relatively hard to be)... Than in due-time, the roll-overs will occur enough that people will stop driving. Which, in the end hurts Uber & the Passengers. If cars are likely still available, I can bet the quality won't be much better than a regular cab... Soon, your local cab company will have their own ride-sharing app and they'll already be somewhat known and from there, they can use that service to regain their old customers.

IMO - Uber is a fad..... Their services will eventually be copied or copied & improved upon. Any or all investors are probably pump & dumping... So, I wonder who in the end will be left with the bag?


----------



## hanging in there

"IMO - Uber is a fad..... Their services will eventually be copied or copied & improved upon. Any or all investors are probably pump & dumping... So, I wonder who in the end will be left with the bag?"

IMO Uber has critical mass and is not going anywhere. Like it or not there are enough potential drivers out there to keep it rolling at whatever rate structure Uber pushes it to, they are good at micro-maximizing everything, every detail, down to the last penny of potential profit and down to the last gained rider total. It is silly and a waste of time to try and fight it, complain, or buck heads with pax over tipping issues, that's just the way it is. Just smile and nod, keep rolling to the next ping, or not. (OMG have I suddenly morphed into UberNice?)


----------



## NewbUberRider

There's no need to tip said:


> Perhaps I am just more perceptive than most, but I knew directly from the start that an ADDITIONAL 20% (or whatever amount) wasn't being added to my trip. I didn't know what the breakdown was between Uber or the driver, nor did I really care, all I knew is that Uber showed me a fare, that EXACT amount showed up on my credit card, and that whatever the split it was known and accepted by the driver as part of working for Uber. Are people really that bad with finances that they didn't realize that their $20 taxi ride (which they assumed would have an ADDITIONAL tip) didn't show up on their statement as $24 (or whatever tip percentage they put in)? At the end of the day, the original terms were acceptable to everyone, Uber now upset that balance, and the drivers are trying to make up that difference from the pax.


Um, actually additional is not what I was thinking. INCLUDED in the fare is what I thought. And I do check my credit card statements, thank you. I guess you missed the part that I thought I had control in the app. One would think this would be easy for the platform to add.


----------



## Dar-K

hanging in there said:


> "IMO - Uber is a fad..... Their services will eventually be copied or copied & improved upon. Any or all investors are probably pump & dumping... So, I wonder who in the end will be left with the bag?"
> 
> IMO Uber has critical mass and is not going anywhere. Like it or not there are enough potential drivers out there to keep it rolling at whatever rate structure Uber pushes it to, they are good at micro-maximizing everything, every detail, down to the last penny of potential profit and down to the last gained rider total. It is silly and a waste of time to try and fight it, complain, or buck heads with pax over tipping issues, that's just the way it is. Just smile and nod, keep rolling to the next ping, or not. (OMG have I suddenly morphed into UberNice?)


Well, I'm thinking this... 2-3 months, is a typical turn-over time-frame. I recall giving a ride one night to a guy and his g/f who had several co-workers driving for Uber. They were also talking about how it used to be pretty good in the market when there were less drivers. Now with more drivers, the frequency of pings are down. If your logged on, it's like being on call w/o the responsibility of having to pick up the passenger. If the business isn't steady, people may not care to stick with it. Now, if the business was steadier, and not profitable, once again in due-time people will move on & find other sources of income. What may or may not exist in most markets now are people who don't understand to calculate all the expenses. -- I'd suggest that everyone who does Uber as a driver, operate the Uber business under a separate account. Give it a $100 Starting balance (assuming your car won't need any upcoming bigger repair expenses). Have the deposits go into that account, and top off your car before driving on your regular account. Once you are finished for the night, top off your car with your Uber checking account. For all simple things (i.e., car washes, bottled waters, etc.) use your Uber checking account. In due time, you can really gauge how much one is making to a better extent. The longer you go, the more accurate it may be. I.e., if you need new tires, oil changes, brakes, etc. Use your Uber account checking account. You'd also have to track your $-transfers; but it'll give you a good idea when you see the $$ go in & out.

It's a simple job, it's a convenient job, and it can be fun. I do it P-T. Heck, even at nights during the week; I won't turn the app-on, because the reward isn't worth the effort. Dead-head mile my way to pick-up, drop them off, than likely head home. All to net like $6 or something like that and waste up to 40 minutes of my time? If I don't feel like demand will be higher, I won't log-on. Let the newbies get tired of waiting for the pings.

Others may not like downtime either. ---


----------



## There’s no need to tip

hanging in there said:


> "IMO - Uber is a fad..... Their services will eventually be copied or copied & improved upon. Any or all investors are probably pump & dumping... So, I wonder who in the end will be left with the bag?"
> 
> IMO Uber has critical mass and is not going anywhere. Like it or not there are enough potential drivers out there to keep it rolling at whatever rate structure Uber pushes it to, they are good at micro-maximizing everything, every detail, down to the last penny of potential profit and down to the last gained rider total. It is silly and a waste of time to try and fight it, complain, or buck heads with pax over tipping issues, that's just the way it is. Just smile and nod, keep rolling to the next ping, or not. (OMG have I suddenly morphed into UberNice?)


Uber and Lyft services are here to stay until all the drivers are replaced with automatic vehicles. 7 years or less that is going to be a reality. GM just invested $500 million in Lyft for that eventuality. It WILL happen and most likely sooner rather than later.


----------



## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> Uber and Lyft services are here to stay until all the drivers are replaced with automatic vehicles. 7 years or less that is going to be a reality. GM just invested $500 million in Lyft for that eventuality. It WILL happen and most likely sooner rather than later.


I wasn't trying to argue that the services would go away. The service, itself, is here to stay... Just that the ride-share market will get saturated just like the driver market.

Think I read somewhere that Chicago is going to have all Cabs basically following the Uber concept in ride hail app. More & more cab companies will copy the same technological model. Heck, I'm sure if executed properly could reduce their costs & reduce the fare cost to the customer thus competing with Uber (if done properly).

7 Years for self-driving cars??? I find this hard to believe.... -- They'd have to enforce all cars to carry some sort of GPS to ensure others from hitting them, etc. Too many safety concerns. 
Not that its impossible, but too many variables to account for to ensure safety.


----------



## gravelaine

NewbUberRider said:


> Um, actually additional is not what I was thinking. INCLUDED in the fare is what I thought. And I do check my credit card statements, thank you. I guess you missed the part that I thought I had control in the app. One would think this would be easy for the platform to add.


It does not matter. He will keep telling you uber's practice is great. Uber is fighting the non tipping culture and it is clear as daylight their intend from day one so thereforw while he now knows tipping has never been included which Uber admitted, it shall not change! But, no complaints on the prices decreasing.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> 7 Years for self-driving cars??? I find this hard to believe.... -- They'd have to enforce all cars to carry some sort of GPS to ensure others from hitting them, etc. Too many safety concerns.
> Not that its impossible, but too many variables to account for to ensure safety.


Read up on the technology. You will be amazed.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...lf-a-million-autonomous-electric-cars-in-2020

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/google-plans-start-offering-rides-hire-its-driverless-cars-2016.html

http://www.economist.com/news/busin...gly-fret-their-industry-brink-huge-disruption

http://www.modernreaders.com/tesla-...tal-vehicle-automation-by-2017/36393/ed-jones

http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384



gravelaine said:


> It does not matter. He will keep telling you uber's practice is great. Uber is fighting the non tipping culture and it is clear as daylight their intend from day one so thereforw while he now knows tipping has never been included which Uber admitted, it shall not change! But, no complaints on the prices decreasing.


If you have an issue with Uber, take it up with Uber. If they won't budge (most likely) and you STILL don't like their business model, move on.


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## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> Read up on the technology. You will be amazed.
> 
> http://www.greencarreports.com/news...lf-a-million-autonomous-electric-cars-in-2020
> 
> http://www.treehugger.com/cars/google-plans-start-offering-rides-hire-its-driverless-cars-2016.html
> 
> http://www.economist.com/news/busin...gly-fret-their-industry-brink-huge-disruption
> 
> http://www.modernreaders.com/tesla-...tal-vehicle-automation-by-2017/36393/ed-jones
> 
> http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384
> 
> If you have an issue with Uber, take it up with Uber. If they won't budge (most likely) and you STILL don't like their business model, move on.


I'm not saying the technology isn't available. I'm saying the infrastructure, regulations, and so forth will take time to evolve to meet this demand. Look at Drones - the FCC now requires them to be registered over a certain weight, as they grew popular. Not really related, but the point is that the government sometimes can step-in & slow things up. I know $$money$$ talks, but what would be in it for Lyft/Uber? Why wouldn't just a regular Joe buy this car to do his errands, trips to work, or any other (reasons) he orders a cab. 
They're Ride-sharing services, SDC would not really be ride-sharing. I'd imagine a company like Google will perfect the SDC before Uber/Lyft do & by than, how or why would they benefit from it? I use Uber to get rides to and from a bar due to intoxication. Why can't my shiny new SDC do that for me?

Or by the time SDC's out - I imagine the market will be saturated with ride-sharing applications. Lyft, Uber, Get-Me, and much more. Each will try to bring something unique, and as soon as one does, it may spread like wild-fire in popularity. The best bet for these newer apps is to gain the market share of a smaller market.

They used to say flying cars would exist. While they're capable of being made, they still don't really see them coming to fruition anytime soon. Not being a negative nelly, as I am typically up beat and positive. Just trying to be a realist here.


----------



## gravelaine

There's no need to tip said:


> Read up on the technology. You will be amazed.
> 
> http://www.greencarreports.com/news...lf-a-million-autonomous-electric-cars-in-2020
> 
> http://www.treehugger.com/cars/google-plans-start-offering-rides-hire-its-driverless-cars-2016.html
> 
> http://www.economist.com/news/busin...gly-fret-their-industry-brink-huge-disruption
> 
> http://www.modernreaders.com/tesla-...tal-vehicle-automation-by-2017/36393/ed-jones
> 
> http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384
> 
> If you have an issue with Uber, take it up with Uber. If they won't budge (most likely) and you STILL don't like their business model, move on.


I don't drive for them, but feel it is my basic right to speak up against poor practices and people like you who see no issues at all against poor labor. But since it works for your wallet fvck everybody.


----------



## wethepeople

There's no need to tip said:


> And my answer encompassed taxi drivers so if you have no reading comprehension skills, I'm OK with that. If you can't figure out how to properly spell SPECIFICALLY, I'm OK with that too.
> 
> Ok, understood.
> 
> Yes, I know there is a difference between Uber drivers and other tipped professions but people keep making additional comments about tipping in general so that is why I mention it. So NOW the argument is that even though there are laws in place, it should be MY responsibility to pay additional money because someone ELSE might break the law????
> 
> As for the Uber situation.... I understand the pay might not be to your liking but as previously mentioned, Uber is not set up for tips, they were never expected for the service, you (drivers in general) made a decision to participate in this system, so I don't feel bad whatsoever not paying additional money because the drivers (some of who are driving expensive cars with bad gas mileage) are not happy with their current payout when there are many other jobs out there that DO pay minimum wage. I'm not going to pay additional money because you don't WANT to work a different job.
> 
> Uber to drivers:


Were all free to tip or not not to tip, that's for sure.
Another true is that you would not get 5 stars for being a greedy person.

The 5th star is reserved for those who support the driver with a little extra dollar.
You should rather use Lyft instead of uber because then you can act like a big boss and pretend you would always tip your driver and sneak away without tipping.

It took me a few weeks to work on my lie detecting skills to 1star those type of persons.
I like Uber because tips are cash only.


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## There’s no need to tip

gravelaine said:


> I don't drive for them, but feel it is my basic right to speak up against poor practices and people like you who see no issues at all against poor labor. But since it works for your wallet fvck everybody.


I have no problem with you speaking up as much as you would like. However, I will once again say this to you and everyone else, until such time as you guys start dropping a tip for all those "poor labor" people working at McDonald's, you don't deserve to be taken seriously. Do they not work hard? Are they not entitled to more money? Don't tip for something that you are "supposed" to tip for and you get bashed and called every name in the book but we can just spit on those other guys.... Indoctrination is strong....



wethepeople said:


> Were all free to tip or not not to tip, that's for sure.
> Another true is that you would not get 5 stars for being a greedy person.
> 
> The 5th star is reserved for those who support the driver with a little extra dollar.
> You should rather use Lyft instead of uber because then you can act like a big boss and pretend you would always tip your driver and sneak away without tipping.
> 
> It took me a few weeks to work on my lie detecting skills to 1star those type of persons.
> I like Uber because tips are cash only.


Yes absolutely. Save your stars and I'll keep my $$$$. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the better end of that deal.


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## gravelaine

There's no need to tip said:


> I have no problem with you speaking up as much as you would like. However, I will once again say this to you and everyone else, until such time as you guys start dropping a tip for all those "poor labor" people working at McDonald's, you don't deserve to be taken seriously. Do they not work hard? Are they not entitled to more money? Don't tip for something that you are "supposed" to tip for and you get bashed and called every name in the book but we can just spit on those other guys.... Indoctrination is strong....
> 
> Yes absolutely. Save your stars and I'll keep my $$$$. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the better end of that deal.


Apples and oranges. My local MDc had a sign stating they were starting at 10 bux an hour. You get medical, 401k, social security and the liability is on two different planets. It always has been accustomed to tip your taxi driver just like your waiter if they did a good job. And yes, to me getting you safely from point A to point B is important and deserves a tip. You will argue that its the persons job. So is bringing you a plate you ordered in front of you. Uber attempted to change the idea and failed miserably by being deceiving. They are now stuck with upset drivers and passengers due to their practices.


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## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> I have no problem with you speaking up as much as you would like. However, I will once again say this to you and everyone else, until such time as you guys start dropping a tip for all those "poor labor" people working at McDonald's, you don't deserve to be taken seriously. Do they not work hard? Are they not entitled to more money? Don't tip for something that you are "supposed" to tip for and you get bashed and called every name in the book but we can just spit on those other guys.... Indoctrination is strong....
> 
> Yes absolutely. Save your stars and I'll keep my $$$$. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the better end of that deal.


Are you though? Think of this... If people were good about not giving 5* all the time to their riders, and it ranged anywhere to 1-4*, your rating would drop. If driver's started to vet their rides more, and saw a rating below a level they prefer to deal with; they may pass on you. What happens on your end is that you end up with longer wait times, a new & inexperienced driver, a driver delivering sub-par customer service, or possibly consistent passes due to your rating and no ride at all. 
Sadly, most customers may not realize this is happening to them. But, than their experience is undesirable and they think twice before using Uber again - than Uber takes a hit on volume. If this becomes common, than the problem increases exponentially. Either A) People pick-up on the issue and start trying to treat drivers better or B) Uber tries to take some weird round-about action.


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## ColdRider

gravelaine said:


> I don't drive for them, but feel it is my basic right to speak up against poor practices and people like you who see no issues at all against poor labor. But since it works for your wallet fvck everybody.


How much of the stuff you buy comes from China?


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## promdog

Dar-K said:


> Are you though? Think of this... If people were good about not giving 5* all the time to their riders, and it ranged anywhere to 1-4*, your rating would drop. If driver's started to vet their rides more, and saw a rating below a level they prefer to deal with; they may pass on you. What happens on your end is that you end up with longer wait times, a new & inexperienced driver, a driver delivering sub-par customer service, or possibly consistent passes due to your rating and no ride at all.
> Sadly, most customers may not realize this is happening to them. But, than their experience is undesirable and they think twice before using Uber again - than Uber takes a hit on volume. If this becomes common, than the problem increases exponentially. Either A) People pick-up on the issue and start trying to treat drivers better or B) Uber tries to take some weird round-about action.


Not Tipping = Treating Your Driver Poorly?? Are you serious?

You think drivers are going to pass on a ping based on rating and negatively affect their acceptance rate? I think not. Pings are too sparse with the over-saturation of drivers.

Oh boy... I think I'd rather just "move on".


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## gravelaine

ColdRider said:


> How much of the stuff you buy comes from China?


Unfortunately too much. Hope the next president changes that.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberHammer said:


> Only cheap bastards order $2 drinks.
> 
> Then again, Uber caters to cheap bastards with its rates and minimum fares. So thanks to Uber bartenders are now serving bars with a lot of non-tipping customers ordering cheap drinks who prior to Uber were staying home drinking cans of Natural Ice and Pabst Blue Ribbon. Sucks to be a bartender now.
> 
> Drivers aren't the only ones being dicked over by Uber.


Unlike uber good bartenders probably DO make some of that up in volume since people will buy more drinks if the drinks are cheaper.

Unfortunately, unlike a bartender we can't increase the number of customers enough to make up for lowered prices.

Uber can make it up in volume though. The SRF is their tip.


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## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> So I have told you why I feel it ISN'T above and beyond yet you haven't explained why you think it is. What part of what you said do you think is doing just what the job requires?


Then explain why taxis get tipped.


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## Fuzzyelvis

UberHammer said:


> Thank you for pointing out that tipping in restaurants is mandatory ONLY for large parties. For all other patrons it's not necessary.


Also, if a patron believes they truly got horrible service they can speak to the manager and in all likelihood if they make a good case for not tipping the tip will be removed or reduced.


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## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> What "great" job do they do for you? What are you thanking them for? That is what I don't understand. They aren't doing it because they like you (not that they don't like you) or because they are altruistic, they are doing it because it is their job and they get paid for it. I have heard stories about garbage men picking up items they aren't supposed to, or putting the cans back on the side of the house, etc... now THAT I believe is tip worthy.
> 
> "I like to tip. I know that when I say thank you and hand them some cash they really get that I appreciate the effort they've shown. In my view, a simple "Thanks' or "Hey, thanks so much!" doesn't carry the same sincerity."
> 
> I guess this is where we differ. I don't feel the need to hand someone money because saying thank you very much, I appreciate your work, isn't polite enough. In all honesty, I "appreciate" them as much as you do, I'm glad I get mail and don't have garbage, I just don't see the need to throw extra money at them for doing their job. Once again, cases where you get special treatment are completely different to me.


If you want to know what someone cares about, look at how they spend their money.

It's obvious you don't care about other people. If you did you wouldn't be making all the arguments about why you don't tip someone making less than $3 to drive you somewhere.

You would feel bad that they are doing that FOR WHATEVER REASON and would tip.


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## wethepeople

> Yes absolutely. Save your stars and I'll keep my $$$$. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the better end of that deal.


you can sure keep your Attorneys or Securityguards $$$ if you walk or take a bus.
I'm sure not the only driver that will not give 5stars without the tip that we sure deserve.

Let's just wait a couple of days and then count the "likes" that we both received.


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## Fuzzyelvis

wethepeople said:


> you can sure keep your Attorneys or Securityguards $$$ if you walk or take a bus.
> I'm sure not the only driver that will not give 5stars without the tip that we sure deserve.
> 
> Let's just wait a couple of days and then count the "likes" that we both received.


Well I started you off with one.


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## wethepeople

yeah thanks bro!
those greedy people sit in our cars and get rides for sometimes below our own expenses and then whine about having "a tipping culture"?
I have no symphathie for those greedy pennypinchers.

btw.. today I gave out more 5 stars than 4 or less..
see things are changing and people are finally starting to tip.
I even had one guy on a $22 dollar ride giving me a $20 tip.
But I helped loading his luggage, moved the seat all the way forward so he more space, asked if he likes the temperature or if he wanted it warmer eventually.
Then as we arrived I didnt just drop his luggage on the street next to my trunk but lifted it on the curb, then he grabbed his wallet and gave me a 20.

I asked how I should break the bill and he said it's for you, the last driver just opened the trunk and didn't even bother to unload the bags.

well if I deserved it for extra good service then I believe I deserved it 
but it's rare to get a 20. most people usually give a 5 dollar bill which is absolutely fine


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

wethepeople said:


> yeah thanks bro!
> those greedy people sit in our cars and get rides for sometimes below our own expenses and then whine about having "a tipping culture"?
> I have no symphathie for those greedy pennypinchers.


Well I'm not a bro but that's ok.

I also deliver pizza. Average tip is about $4. Plus the store charges $2.50 delivery fee. So it's worth $6.50 to our average customer to get a pizza delivered, but its supposed to be ok to not tip on a $6.07 (minimum here) trip of which I get $3.20 (new drivers $2.88).

It makes no sense.


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## wethepeople

we are all brothers and sisters here.. no matter if PizzaTaxi, Lyft Uber Black Car or "real" taxi
I also have a taxipermit but i rather drive Uber because I don't have to bribe a greedy dispatcher or the even greedier Taxi Medaillion owners who declared us taxidrivers as independent contractors so they could avoid paying minimum wages.

The whole system is ****ed up, that's why i still like Uber even tho they start making the same shitty mistakes.


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## There’s no need to tip

I'm sorry I don't have time for a formal response right now. I have real work to get done this morning. Perhaps if I do just the bare minimum I will get a tip for it! I will respond later when I have some free time.


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## wethepeople

promdog said:


> Not Tipping = Treating Your Driver Poorly?? Are you serious?
> 
> You think drivers are going to pass on a ping based on rating and negatively affect their acceptance rate? I think not. Pings are too sparse with the over-saturation of drivers.
> 
> Oh boy... I think I'd rather just "move on".


sorry, but it doesn't in fact matter what you "think"
I am not accepting pax with lower than 4.5stars (I play the same rule for Pax as would get disconnected at 4.5 too)
However sometimes I accept a low rated pax's ping. then I just try to get thru the first 5 minutes so they get charged for cancelling.
a few times the Pax didn't cancel even after maybe 20-25 minutes.. my solution was touse the Lyft App in the meantime lol :-D
People think they are smart and they have the right to do whatever they wanna do to the drivers.

But you should realize that the majority of Uber drivers doesn't do it fulltime and doesn't actually depend on the $2.40 per minimum trip.
Especially not after realizing that if I need 15minutes to drive to pin.. then 5minutes trip for just $2.40 my maximum per hour is only 3 trips if I had zero downtime and the next ping came in like back to back.. 
Dude that's $7.20 per hour gross income and maybe puts 20miles on my car (worth $10.20 in depreciation)
So i need $3.40 tip per customer to reach $0 per hour.

And the oversaturation??
Dude It's still enough fish out there it's just the fare being too low and maybe between 1/3 and 1/2 of the pax not tipping.


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## Dar-K

promdog said:


> Not Tipping = Treating Your Driver Poorly?? Are you serious?
> 
> You think drivers are going to pass on a ping based on rating and negatively affect their acceptance rate? I think not. Pings are too sparse with the over-saturation of drivers.
> 
> Oh boy... I think I'd rather just "move on".


If I came across that saying "not tipping" = "treating driver poorly" that is not what I meant or intended. What I was trying to get at was that some drivers have their rating system & usually a standard ride = 4 & standard + tip or any instance of a tip = 5*. So a driver may use that to judge whether a pick-up is possibly worth or not.

... Yea, Pings may be less & less due to saturation, but that doesn't mean that they are or will always be profitable (unless surging of course). So, maybe a smart driver passes from time to time when it appears that a tip may not be likely. Maybe they're on the verge of going offline and get a ping and don't like the rating. Maybe they want to remain online but they're trying to get out of an area to a more hot-spot and pass... We all have our weird reasons...


----------



## Uberduberdoo

New jersey just got rates lowered from $1.10 a mile $0.18 per min to $0.85 per mile $0.15 per min. Still no need to tip???


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> New jersey just got rates lowered from $1.10 a mile $0.18 per min to $0.85 per mile $0.15 per min. Still no need to tip???


Absolutely..... http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers.html


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## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> Absolutely..... http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers.html


Have fun waiting for your ride, as it will be probably 2+ times your normal wait time, with a driver who is either poorly educated or may not speak English very well all while the ride itself is below the average quality of a car you typically ride.


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## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> Absolutely..... http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers.html


So I assume that if uber cut its rates to 0.25 per mile you would still hold fast.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> So I assume that if uber cut its rates to 0.25 per mile you would still hold fast.


I would hold fast until such time as I see service affected. As of right now, all I have seen is cheaper trips. As long as that remains the norm it is ok in my book. If there are drivers who are constantly willing to work at the rates Uber offers them through an independent contractor relationship, I too am willing to continue as well. Look at it this way, if 3 contractors put bids on renovations my house, 1 is much lower than the others because he is using suppliers which for whatever reason are selling him materials well below cost, I have no problem using that contractor if the service is going to be acceptable and comparable to the other more expensive guys. I certainly am not going to give the suppliers a TIP at the end of the day because they made a bad business decision. As some here have said though, service might suffer, but I have a feeling IF that becomes a reality the market will stabilize it and there will be a balance between cost and quality. In any event, I feel that will work itself out without any action on my part.


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## Dar-K

-Quality of service will take a hit
-Quality of rides (Quality of Car, Cleanliness, Free little offers such as water/gum) will take a hit
-Amount of time for driver to arrive will increase (more drivers remaining offline)

Are you going to be happy when you get a foreign speaking driver, who drives a 2005 slightly beat-up ride with high miles and maybe smells like BO or the car itself smells bad and had you wait twice the time for pick-up? Or are you going to pass on that ride, because you expect better of Uber?
Just curious


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> -Quality of service will take a hit
> -Quality of rides (Quality of Car, Cleanliness, Free little offers such as water/gum) will take a hit
> -Amount of time for driver to arrive will increase (more drivers remaining offline)
> 
> Are you going to be happy when you get a foreign speaking driver, who drives a 2005 slightly beat-up ride with high miles and maybe smells like BO or the car itself smells bad and had you wait twice the time for pick-up? Or are you going to pass on that ride, because you expect better of Uber?
> Just curious


Like I said, IF that starts to happen you can guarantee Uber will hear about it from the passengers and I assume things would balance out with fare increases. However, if regular cabs (or some other service) have nothing better to offer I would prob still use Uber for the convenience. I personally don't care about mints, driver talking to me, etc... All I want is a clean (doesn't even have to be new) car, with working AC, that will come in a reasonable amount of time (doesn't even have to be as fast as they are now, I will plan ahead), and not try to rip me off by taking an inefficient route. As long as Uber can provide that, I will be happy with the service.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> I would hold fast until such time as I see service affected. As of right now, all I have seen is cheaper trips. As long as that remains the norm it is ok in my book. If there are drivers who are constantly willing to work at the rates Uber offers them through an independent contractor relationship, I too am willing to continue as well. Look at it this way, if 3 contractors put bids on renovations my house, 1 is much lower than the others because he is using suppliers which for whatever reason are selling him materials well below cost, I have no problem using that contractor if the service is going to be acceptable and comparable to the other more expensive guys. I certainly am not going to give the suppliers a TIP at the end of the day because they made a bad business decision. As some here have said though, service might suffer, but I have a feeling IF that becomes a reality the market will stabilize it and there will be a balance between cost and quality. In any event, I feel that will work itself out without any action on my part.


Ok, now let's say that you know for fact that a driver in no way can make any money off your ride and in fact, by your exelant observational skills and financial expierance , the driver is actually losing money on your ride. The driver is unaware he is losing, but you are certain of it. Would you tip him? Yes or no please.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> Ok, now let's say that you know for fact that a driver in no way can make any money off your ride and in fact, by your exelant observational skills and financial expierance , the driver is actually losing money on your ride. The driver is unaware he is losing, but you are certain of it. Would you tip him? Yes or no please.


If I knew for a fact, that is a much tougher position to swallow.... but most likely still no. I equate it to anything else in the business world though. I have sold things on Craigslist and ebay for more money than they were worth. Someone decided to buy them. I wasn't going to go back and say, you know what, this really wasn't worth that much take $5 off....


----------



## wethepeople

Uberduberdoo said:


> New jersey just got rates lowered from $1.10 a mile $0.18 per min to $0.85 per mile $0.15 per min. Still no need to tip???


CORRECT !

I see it like this :
The only reason why we give "no tippers" 4stars is that maybe the trip was a nice longer trip and they have been nice people.
But that now changed !

With the new cuts into our income it is rude and disrespectful to me to not tip.
and honestly I don't care if I never see them again because I rated them 1star.
There is always enough other folks out there.

I will now bring up the new fare cuts on every ride and explain as good as I can, so the people understand the real situation.
I'm sure most people will act as if they care about us, but if they still don't tip I will just give em 1Star from tonight on.

I wish we all did that and messed up Ubers great rating system.

scenario:
Streets full of cars and Uber can't match rides because it's all people that we previously 1Star'ed..
that would be very funny..


----------



## wethepeople

There's no need to tip said:


> If I knew for a fact, that is a much tougher position to swallow.... but most likely still no. I equate it to anything else in the business world though. I have sold things on Craigslist and ebay for more money than they were worth. Someone decided to buy them. I wasn't going to go back and say, you know what, this really wasn't worth that much take $5 off....


You hopefully are aware that there is a special section in hell - reserved for Attorneys only and it's run by Taxi, Uber and Lyftdrivers..
One day they will read to you what you just wrote and there will be sure no forgiveness..

lol.. Hey at least allow us to have our own dreams "Mister I never tip my driver"


----------



## gravelaine

wethepeople said:


> You hopefully are aware that there is a special section in hell - reserved for Attorneys only and it's run by Taxi, Uber and Lyftdrivers..
> One day they will read to you what you just wrote and there will be sure no forgiveness..
> 
> lol.. Hey at least allow us to have our own dreams "Mister I never tip my driver"


You are feeding a troll. He just does not want to tip and is trying to persuade himself, it is ok. But I'll continue tipping drivers as its always been the norm. You'll have people like him who believe it is important to show off his status by tipping in front of his friends which really discredits everything he has said if he really believed in his horseshit.
But hey another price decrease from uber in many cities such like detroit where it is now 30 cents a mile. But fvck the drivers right "theres is no need to tip" , no need to tip still.


----------



## wethepeople

oh so you're a pax then?
Well in this case let me compliment you for being so thoughtful and interested in understanding the drivers situation.
I compare the Uber rating like a little credit score that decides if you get a ride on NYE night..
also the score decides if you will get a friendly mostly happy driver about 4.9 with a nice car or one of those drivers that the "troll" will only get.

I personally can't even really complain about not getting tips, on weekday(evenings) I usually get at least $20 - $30 out of 7-10 rides which I usually only make since I only drive Airports. But I am also doing the best I can and always going the extra mile for my guests.
I walk towards them and take care of the luggage I always offer a smooth conversation, but also respect if they had a long flight and travel and are tired.
A good driver simply knows when to shut up and when to talk and especially about what to talk.
Not everybody wants to hear my full life story but lol.. sometimes people ask and then I will tell..

Again : thank you for tipping your drivers ! We now need it more than ever before or we will have to leave the industry to those drivers that you guys didn't like in the first place..


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> Ok, now let's say that you know for fact that a driver in no way can make any money off your ride and in fact, by your exelant observational skills and financial expierance , the driver is actually losing money on your ride. The driver is unaware he is losing, but you are certain of it. Would you tip him? Yes or no please.


If I knew all these things and the driver did not (I have come across drivers like this), I make the effort in educating the driver about the service they are working for. Just like pax not knowing they are capable of tipping; there are drivers not knowing they are being ripped off by their TNC. My guess is that a lot of drivers don't even realize that there have been rate cuts because their don't really care about the business of being a driver.



wethepeople said:


> You hopefully are aware that there is a special section in hell - reserved for Attorneys only and it's run by Taxi, Uber and Lyftdrivers..
> One day they will read to you what you just wrote and there will be sure no forgiveness..


Just for the record: I take Lyft as a passenger so that I may leave a cashless tip. I am no longer a patron of Uber because I don't care to carry cash to tip. However, I still believe that the tipping culture needs to be abolished and employers need to pay their employees/contractors a livable wage. That being said, please save your moral, religious references to imaginary sections of the imaginary place called "hell" to yourself. This is totally and completely irrelevant to the conversation. There is nothing immoral to having a choice to tip or not tip -- and then deciding one way or the other. It's a personal decision -- not a moral one.


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## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> If I knew for a fact, that is a much tougher position to swallow.... but most likely still no. I equate it to anything else in the business world though. I have sold things on Craigslist and ebay for more money than they were worth. Someone decided to buy them. I wasn't going to go back and say, you know what, this really wasn't worth that much take $5 off....


You still hold fast knowing the guy is actually spending money to drive you.......Those things you sold on Craigslist and eBay for more than they were worth, apparently were worth the cost to the purchasers. So of course you wouldn't take off the $5. They bought items because they wanted them. Those items have forever lasting value. The uber ride is a service so I'm not sure the comparison is the right one. But I think I'm following your thought process, if you can get something subsidized on the backs of ignorance you are all in.
I get it, drivers know what the deal is when they signed on, they're not going to get tipped, they can work at Macdonalds if they don't like the the way it is or dont like the progression of policy etc..
What I dont get is, that being a decent compassionate caring human being should be standard, but apparently these days, we find such traits are perceived as going above and beyond. So do your self and the next uber driver a favor, go above and beyond and throw the guy or gal a buck or two. I gaurentee you will feel better than standard, and so will your driver. Somewhere in time that kindness will find its way back into your pocket.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> If I knew all these things and the driver did not (I have come across drivers like this), I make the effort in educating the driver about the service they are working for. Just like pax not knowing they are capable of tipping; there are drivers not knowing they are being ripped off by their TNC. My guess is that a lot of drivers don't even realize that there have been rate cuts because their don't really care about the business of being a driver.


Educating the driver would be a nice thing. Given the senerio I do believe you would ice that cake with a buck or two.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

gravelaine said:


> You are feeding a troll. He just does not want to tip and is trying to persuade himself, it is ok. But I'll continue tipping drivers as its always been the norm. You'll have people like him who believe it is important to show off his status by tipping in front of his friends which really discredits everything he has said if he really believed in his horseshit.
> But hey another price decrease from uber in many cities such like detroit where it is now 30 cents a mile. But fvck the drivers right "theres is no need to tip" , no need to tip still.


Hahahahah if after all I have written, and all the well thought out arguments I have made, you still think I am just "trying to persuade myself" it is ok not to tip I feel sorry for you. I really do. I am secure in my position and don't NEED to justify it to myself or anyone else. Nor am I a "troll." Perhaps you need to go look up the definition of that term. Just because most of you guys would rather respond with ad hominem attacks doesn't make ME a troll.



Uberduberdoo said:


> You still hold fast knowing the guy is actually spending money to drive you.......Those things you sold on Craigslist and eBay for more than they were worth, apparently were worth the cost to the purchasers. So of course you wouldn't take off the $5. They bought items because they wanted them. Those items have forever lasting value. The uber ride is a service so I'm not sure the comparison is the right one. But I think I'm following your thought process, if you can get something subsidized on the backs of ignorance you are all in.
> I get it, drivers know what the deal is when they signed on, they're not going to get tipped, they can work at Macdonalds if they don't like the the way it is or dont like the progression of policy etc..
> What I dont get is, that being a decent compassionate caring human being should be standard, but apparently these days, we find such traits are perceived as going above and beyond. So do your self and the next uber driver a favor, go above and beyond and throw the guy or gal a buck or two. I gaurentee you will feel better than standard, and so will your driver. Somewhere in time that kindness will find its way back into your pocket.


There are many people that make purchases on ebay and Craigslist and pay more than the item is worth not just because "they want it" (which obviously they do because otherwise they wouldn't buy it) but because they THINK (incorrectly) they are getting a deal BECAUSE the item is on ebay or Craigslist. Yes the item has lasting value, but not as much as they put in. As a purchaser, I would also happily buy your Mark Mcgwire rookie card for $500 knowing full well it is worth $5,000. But yes, you did get the theory right. In the business world, I'm not going to babysit anyone. We are all big boys and girls here and in life in general. I am not going to go out of my way to purposefully or fraudulently trick anyone into anything, but if someone 1. wants to STILL continue to drive for Uber knowing they are being screwed or 2. Isn't savvy enough to bother learning about what they are getting into before doing so, I'm not going to spend my hard earned money to make up for that fact. As I mentioned, I save my charity for those that really need it not people that make bad business decisions. Like I said a million times, Uber isn't indentured servitude. It is an independent contractor relationship that one is free to enter into or not. I really don't feel bad for anyone that doesn't have the common sense to run their own life (unless they are legit special needs individuals).


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> Educating the driver would be a nice thing. Given the senerio I do believe you would ice that cake with a buck or two.


I give all my drivers $5 bucks if they listen to me rant about the TNCs disregard to drivers in general. It's a small donation for letting me educate them, give them a taste of what they should be getting *from their employer*, and a hope that they will quit and find something else to do. The less drivers there are, the less money TNCs will make.


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## wethepeople

There's no need to tip said:


> Hahahahah if after all I have written, and all the well thought out arguments I have made, you still think I am just "trying to persuade myself" it is ok not to tip I feel sorry for you. I really do. I am secure in my position and don't NEED to justify it to myself or anyone else. Nor am I a "troll." Perhaps you need to go look up the definition of that term. Just because most of you guys would rather respond with ad hominem attacks doesn't make ME a troll.
> 
> There are many people that make purchases on ebay and Craigslist and pay more than the item is worth not just because "they want it" (which obviously they do because otherwise they wouldn't buy it) but because they THINK (incorrectly) they are getting a deal BECAUSE the item is on ebay or Craigslist. Yes the item has lasting value, but not as much as they put in. As a purchaser, I would also happily buy your Mark Mcgwire rookie card for $500 knowing full well it is worth $5,000. But yes, you did get the theory right. In the business world, I'm not going to babysit anyone. We are all big boys and girls here and in life in general. I am not going to go out of my way to purposefully or fraudulently trick anyone into anything, but if someone 1. wants to STILL continue to drive for Uber knowing they are being screwed or 2. Isn't savvy enough to bother learning about what they are getting into before doing so, I'm not going to spend my hard earned money to make up for that fact. As I mentioned, I save my charity for those that really need it not people that make bad business decisions. Like I said a million times, Uber isn't indentured servitude. It is an independent contractor relationship that one is free to enter into or not. I really don't feel bad for anyone that doesn't have the common sense to run their own life (unless they are legit special needs individuals).


What do you mean "you're not a troll"???
You just proved it once again..


----------



## There’s no need to tip

wethepeople said:


> What do you mean "you're not a troll"???
> You just proved it once again..


And I once again suggest you go look up the definition of that word.


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## wethepeople

And I repeat a troll is someone pretending to be an attorney or something better than others so he stands out.
In fact this makes him smaller than he actually was before at least that's how other people will furthermore recognize him.

We are all drivers and we have time to post in this forum while we're at work.
And in our time off we usually take care of our girlfriends so we wouldn't invest our valuable time to start discussions about tipping or not...

I read a few more of your previous posts and it seems to me that you 
1. Are not an attorney
2. Have no girlfriend
And 3. No one really cares about your opinion.

However I am not seeking for a personal confrontation and maybe I should just put you on my ignore list, because it's not really worth my time anymore

You have a wonderful and safe trip without the need to tip
Stay safe


----------



## There’s no need to tip

wethepeople said:


> And I repeat a troll is someone pretending to be an attorney or something better than others so he stands out.
> In fact this makes him smaller than he actually was before at least that's how other people will furthermore recognize him.
> 
> We are all drivers and we have time to post in this forum while we're at work.
> And in our time off we usually take care of our girlfriends so we wouldn't invest our valuable time to start discussions about tipping or not...
> 
> I read a few more of your previous posts and it seems to me that you
> 1. Are not an attorney
> 2. Have no girlfriend
> And 3. No one really cares about your opinion.
> 
> However I am not seeking for a personal confrontation and maybe I should just put you on my ignore list, because it's not really worth my time anymore
> 
> You have a wonderful and safe trip without the need to tip
> Stay safe


Actually, that is not even remotely what a troll is. Also, just because I want to show you just how wrong you are....

photo deleted

And before you even try to keep your fantasy going, no it isn't fake. Go ahead, try to find the image online. You won't.


----------



## promdog

wethepeople said:


> And I repeat a troll is someone pretending to be an attorney or something better than others so he stands out.
> In fact this makes him smaller than he actually was before at least that's how other people will furthermore recognize him.
> 
> We are all drivers and we have time to post in this forum while we're at work.
> And in our time off we usually take care of our girlfriends so we wouldn't invest our valuable time to start discussions about tipping or not...
> 
> I read a few more of your previous posts and it seems to me that you
> 1. Are not an attorney
> 2. Have no girlfriend
> And 3. No one really cares about your opinion.
> 
> However I am not seeking for a personal confrontation and maybe I should just put you on my ignore list, because it's not really worth my time anymore
> 
> You have a wonderful and safe trip without the need to tip
> Stay safe


No, that is not a troll. The word I think you are looking for is: "liar". But, who cares at this point as you've now resorted to personal attacks. (Despite openly saying do not seek it).

You'd be surprised how much time an independent business owner can make either available or unavailable. You should actually try it sometime. 
Mr. Weak... Sauce... Jerky...


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> Like I said, IF that starts to happen you can guarantee Uber will hear about it from the passengers and I assume things would balance out with fare increases. However, if regular cabs (or some other service) have nothing better to offer I would prob still use Uber for the convenience. I personally don't care about mints, driver talking to me, etc... All I want is a clean (doesn't even have to be new) car, with working AC, that will come in a reasonable amount of time (doesn't even have to be as fast as they are now, I will plan ahead), and not try to rip me off by taking an inefficient route. As long as Uber can provide that, I will be happy with the service.


How will you know if the driver has put off the brake job he can't afford until it's too late?

Do you check all of your driver's tires to make sure they're not bald when you get in an uber in the pouring rain?

If you're on the freeway and it starts raining will you be upset when your driver turns on his wipers and they barely work?

There are issues that arise when drivers aren't paid enough that you may not be cognizant of until it's too late.

It's not all about the driver speaking English. I'd rather ride in a filthy car with a rude driver than a clean car with crappy brakes and bald tires.

But that's just me.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

promdog said:


> No, that is not a troll. The word I think you are looking for is: "liar". But, who cares at this point as you've now resorted to personal attacks. (Despite openly saying do not seek it).
> 
> You'd be surprised how much time an independent business owner can make either available or unavailable. You should actually try it sometime.
> Mr. Weak... Sauce... Jerky...


And as my image has shown, I'm obviously NOT a liar either. But hey, if he wants to keep things going, it doesn't bother me one bit. I will continue to be the better man and not engage in such infantile activities.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

wethepeople said:


> You hopefully are aware that there is a special section in hell - reserved for Attorneys only and it's run by Taxi, Uber and Lyftdrivers..
> One day they will read to you what you just wrote and there will be sure no forgiveness..
> 
> lol.. Hey at least allow us to have our own dreams "Mister I never tip my driver"


Or didn't as the case may be.


----------



## promdog

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Or didn't as the case may be.
> View attachment 23115


OMG! ROFLMAO! I literally almost fell out of my chair laughing!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> And as my image has shown, I'm obviously NOT a liar either. But hey, if he wants to keep things going, it doesn't bother me one bit. I will continue to be the better man and not engage in such infantile activities.


I don't know if you're an attorney or not but you could have copied that image off the internet just like I could copy it now. Proves nothing.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

promdog said:


> OMG! ROFLMAO! I literally almost fell out of my chair laughing!


Well go to zazzle and you can get the sticker. Or hat or t shirt. Just search Jesus tip I think.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How will you know if the driver has put off the brake job he can't afford until it's too late?
> 
> Do you check all of your driver's tires to make sure they're not bald when you get in an uber in the pouring rain?
> 
> If you're on the freeway and it starts raining will you be upset when your driver turns on his wipers and they barely work?


One would think that if a person can't handle the upkeep on their car, they would look for a line of work that doesn't require the use of said car. However, I have seen the intelligence level of SOME of the individuals here and I guess I really can't make that assumption. You do raise a decent point however, how do I know those things would be done even WITH a tip?


Fuzzyelvis said:


> I don't know if you're an attorney or not but you could have copied that image off the internet just like I could copy it now. Proves nothing.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA obviously someone failed the read THE LAST LINE of my post. Am I good or what? I am a psychic now. Go ahead, try and find an image even remotely similar to what I posted online.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

promdog said:


> OMG! ROFLMAO! I literally almost fell out of my chair laughing!


I wouldn't pay that much for a t shirt but I do like the "what would Jesus do" idea.

Maybe a bumper sticker saying
"WWJD? TIP!"

You can get them made...


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Ju


There's no need to tip said:


> One would think that if a person can't handle the upkeep on their car, they would look for a line of work that doesn't require the use of said car. However, I have seen the intelligence level of SOME of the individuals here and I guess I really can't make that assumption. You do raise a decent point however, how do I know those things would be done even WITH a tip?
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA obviously someone failed the read THE LAST LINE of my post. Am I good or what? I am a psychic now. Go ahead, try and find an image even remotely similar to what I posted online.


Just because you didn't find it doesn't mean it's not out there. Heck, how do I know you didn't design it yourself? If there IS no other copy on the internet then I have nothing to compare it to in order to KNOW if it's legitimate. It means NOTHING either way.

For an attorney you sure don't understand the concept of proof.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

You are quite good at finding jesus related images online but not so good at finding New York Attorney ID card images.


Fuzzyelvis said:


> Ju
> 
> Just because you didn't find it doesn't mean it's not out there. Heck, how do I know you didn't design it yourself? If there IS no other copy on the internet then I have nothing to compare it to in order to KNOW if it's legitimate. It means NOTHING either way.
> 
> For an attorney you sure don't understand the concept of proof.


No, but I certainly understand the concept of circumstantial evidence. I guess I'm just so skilled in photoshop or internet searching that I know JUST where to go to grab a copy of the back of a New York Attorney ID card while none of you do. Yeah, that is the most likely scenario here. I love how you guys are SO obsessed with the fact that I'm an attorney. Someone even accused me of bragging when I was ASKED what my profession was. I didn't even offer it myself. You guys are so silly....


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> Hahahahah if after all I have written, and all the well thought out arguments I have made, you still think I am just "trying to persuade myself" it is ok not to tip I feel sorry for you. I really do. I am secure in my position and don't NEED to justify it to myself or anyone else. Nor am I a "troll." Perhaps you need to go look up the definition of that term. Just because most of you guys would rather respond with ad hominem attacks doesn't make ME a troll.
> 
> There are many people that make purchases on ebay and Craigslist and pay more than the item is worth not just because "they want it" (which obviously they do because otherwise they wouldn't buy it) but because they THINK (incorrectly) they are getting a deal BECAUSE the item is on ebay or Craigslist. Yes the item has lasting value, but not as much as they put in. As a purchaser, I would also happily buy your Mark Mcgwire rookie card for $500 knowing full well it is worth $5,000. But yes, you did get the theory right. In the business world, I'm not going to babysit anyone. We are all big boys and girls here and in life in general. I am not going to go out of my way to purposefully or fraudulently trick anyone into anything, but if someone 1. wants to STILL continue to drive for Uber knowing they are being screwed or 2. Isn't savvy enough to bother learning about what they are getting into before doing so, I'm not going to spend my hard earned money to make up for that fact. As I mentioned, I save my charity for those that really need it not people that make bad business decisions. Like I said a million times, Uber isn't indentured servitude. It is an independent contractor relationship that one is free to enter into or not. I really don't feel bad for anyone that doesn't have the common sense to run their own life (unless they are legit special needs individuals).


Your character is clear to all , no need to ramble on. We all know if uber said "please trip your drivers, as the fare does not include a gratituty " you would still abstain, unless of course your friends where present (have to keep up with that facade, isn't that right?). Nothing more to discuss. Please enjoy that feeling you get next time you leave an uber.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> You are quite good at finding jesus related images online but not so good at finding New York Attorney ID card images.
> 
> No, but I certainly understand the concept of circumstantial evidence. I guess I'm just so skilled in photoshop or internet searching that I know JUST where to go to grab a copy of the back of a New York Attorney ID card while none of you do. Yeah, that is the most likely scenario here. I love how you guys are SO obsessed with the fact that I'm an attorney. Someone even accused me of bragging when I was ASKED what my profession was. I didn't even offer it myself. You guys are so silly....


So it's not on the internet to copy but now it is?

You're just contradicting yourself.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Fuzzyelvis said:


> So it's not on the internet to copy but now it is?
> 
> You're just contradicting yourself.


Hahahahah yeah, because that is how the internet works buddy. In order for me to post it I had to upload it. The point is, if it were such a public image YOU would be able to post something similar. Yet you can't, because it isn't. Here... I'll give you one more and then I'm done with you just because I want you to not be able to sleep tonight thinking about how much of a fool you were shown to be by some random dude you don't even know on the internet. What do you want me to put in the picture with it? A $1 bill? 2 fingers? A salt shaker? Name a common household item. We all know you are just going to say I am a photoshop expert anyway so I don't know why I will even bother....


----------



## gravelaine

There's no need to tip said:


> Hahahahah yeah, because that is how the internet works buddy. In order for me to post it I had to upload it. The point is, if it were such a public image YOU would be able to post something similar. Yet you can't, because it isn't. Here... I'll give you one more and then I'm done with you just because I want you to not be able to sleep tonight thinking about how much of a fool you were shown to be by some random dude you don't even know on the internet. What do you want me to put in the picture with it? A $1 bill? 2 fingers? A salt shaker? Name a common household item. We all know you are just going to say I am a photoshop expert anyway so I don't know why I will even bother....


A piece of paper that says "im a cheap fvck and who gives a fvck".


----------



## There’s no need to tip

gravelaine said:


> A piece of paper that says "im a cheap fvck and who gives a fvck".


Ok.... 1 min

Photo deleted


----------



## There’s no need to tip

There you go... I'm done playing around with you guys tonight. We can find more lies about me to spread and insults to hurl at me in the morning


----------



## Agent99

There's no need to tip said:


> You are quite good at finding jesus related images online but not so good at finding New York Attorney ID card images.
> 
> No, but I certainly understand the concept of circumstantial evidence. I guess I'm just so skilled in photoshop or internet searching that I know JUST where to go to grab a copy of the back of a New York Attorney ID card while none of you do. Yeah, that is the most likely scenario here. I love how you guys are SO obsessed with the fact that I'm an attorney. Someone even accused me of bragging when I was ASKED what my profession was. I didn't even offer it myself. You guys are so silly....





There's no need to tip said:


> You are quite good at finding jesus related images online but not so good at finding New York Attorney ID card images.
> 
> No, but I certainly understand the concept of circumstantial evidence. I guess I'm just so skilled in photoshop or internet searching that I know JUST where to go to grab a copy of the back of a New York Attorney ID card while none of you do. Yeah, that is the most likely scenario here. I love how you guys are SO obsessed with the fact that I'm an attorney. Someone even accused me of bragging when I was ASKED what my profession was. I didn't even offer it myself. You guys are so silly....


Indeed, this thread has become ridiculous, complete with personal attacks that the attorney isn't an attorney, doesn't have morals, or is a troll. All because he takes a position some people don't like. The funny thing is he isn't as extreme as he comes across. He concedes that 1) Uber probably should have a tip option in the app (like Lyft) and that 2) tipping should be for a driver going "above and beyond" rather than be an automatic expectation (tipping culture). As a driver I agree with both these points.

Unlike most threads, this one really got me thinking. How much more would a driver get if there was an in app tipping function? About 8-10% more net pay, from my experience with Lyft. 30-40% tip me, which means 60-70% do not. Would I like an extra 10% pay through Uber? Of course. Do I think that those who tip me do so because I have gone "above and beyond"? I would like to think so. Does it bother me that Uber makes rewarding a driver for going above and beyond very difficult? Yes. On the other hand, we are only talking about 10% more compensation which I can make up by concentrating more on surge trips. Then I feel fairly compensated for my time, and tipping becomes irrelevant.

Uber just dropped rates in a large number of cities. Fortunately, they decided against a rate cut in my city (Seattle), but many other cities were absolutely pounded. Seattle is $1.35 a mile (before Uber takes its cut.) Detroit just dropped to 30 cents a mile. Absolutely ridiculous, and if I was a Detroit driver I would quit now. I think the compensation for drivers is in most cities low, lower, or insane. That issue is much, much bigger for drivers than getting tips or not.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> Ok.... 1 min


Where did you find a 5 year old at 3 am to write that for you? Or was it also on the internet?

Anyway, glad you've finally admitted what you are. That's the first step. Try to find a meeting in your area. I hear that helps.


----------



## ColdRider

This thread.... LOL. 

Just LOL


----------



## maxista

Dear Mr. There's No Need To Tip, I would like to know, why are you spending all this time trying to convince a bunch of drivers, on an Uber driver forum, that not tipping is an OK thing to do? I'm just... really confused as to why you're here spending so much energy and time on this. 

While it's true that there are contradictions in service culture and tipping, as you pointed out with fast food early in this thread, why does that confusion make you so against tipping someone a little bit of your cash? 

If you resent Uber drivers so much, why are you spending so much time trying to get us to feel bad for you? I don't really understand your angle. Who's your intended audience? Are you trying to tell this to riders or drivers? Is this all so you can reassure yourself? What do you want man?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Where did you find a 5 year old at 3 am to write that for you? Or was it also on the internet?
> 
> Anyway, glad you've finally admitted what you are. That's the first step. Try to find a meeting in your area. I hear that helps.


I am done speaking about this. I have done MORE than enough to establish what my profession is (which isn't even relevant to ANYTHING we are discussing nor did I originally bring it up). I only uploaded those pictures, and wrote with 2 year old handwriting (which I DID do on purpose) to see you guys freak out even more and show how unreasonable you really are. I certainly don't feel the need to justify myself to anyone. I was having a bit of fun but now I no longer want to put in the effort on that subject. My point has been made. Keep trying to convince yourselves I am not really an attorney as for some reason, you guys REALLY need to believe it. That is so obviously not a photoshop job nor would I find the EXACT image the other poster requested randomly posted on the net so you will REALLY continue to look foolish if you keep pressing the issue especially since I am done with the subject.



maxista said:


> Dear Mr. There's No Need To Tip, I would like to know, why are you spending all this time trying to convince a bunch of drivers, on an Uber driver forum, that not tipping is an OK thing to do? I'm just... really confused as to why you're here spending so much energy and time on this.
> 
> While it's true that there are contradictions in service culture and tipping, as you pointed out with fast food early in this thread, why does that confusion make you so against tipping someone a little bit of your cash?
> 
> If you resent Uber drivers so much, why are you spending so much time trying to get us to feel bad for you? I don't really understand your angle. Who's your intended audience? Are you trying to tell this to riders or drivers? Is this all so you can reassure yourself? What do you want man?


Let me ask you, why are YOU guys, even as Uber drivers, sitting here trying to convince yourselves, AND ME, that tipping IS the right thing to do? Am I not entitled to my own opinion as well? You guys would like to change the system as you see fit, I just want the same for my beliefs. I don't know how many times I have to say it, I really couldn't care less what anyone thinks about my position. I don't need to convince myself of anything. Also, as I posted in one of these threads, I am an attorney. I argue FOR A LIVING. I actually enjoy it. Going back and forth with you guys, and keeping cool and not reacting to the clowns, is actually good training for me. I don't really consider it a waste of time. I am not doing this instead of doing other things. I do this from my phone or when I have down time during the day. I can multitask. These posts don't take me all that long to write.

You ask me why confusion with tip culture makes me against tipping someone a little bit of cash. As mentioned before, I am sick of supporting a broken system. I am sick of supporting a system where most of the people are not honest with themselves or others. There is a sense of entitlement that I am sick of with the service industry. I NEVER said some of the positions weren't hard, or that I would want to do them, or that I didn't appreciate the people that did and treated them like crap (as others have falsely accused me of) but that is not a reason for ME to part with MY hard earned money (do I not work hard?) just because someone else has a job they don't like, or that doesn't pay well, or where there is a legal mechanism to protect themselves but they don't use it because they fear they will be fired if they do. The only reason the system exists is because everyone involved LETS it exist. Perhaps if more people stopped tipping, and the employees en mass were forced to demand the balance from their employers, things would change for the better overall. However, service people keep perpetuating the lie that they "don't make minimum wage" so we HAVE to tip, or if we don't we "don't appreciate their excellent service" when in the end, it really has NOTHING to do with the quality of service at all. Society keeps going along with it because they don't understand the facts behind how the system really works, or because they don't want to look "cheap" or whatever words have been thrown at me in this thread. Hell, some of the positions people tip receive a full higher than minimum wage salary anyway. The issue is, we really have no idea anymore which positions even SHOULD be tipped as everyone has their hand out. I would have more respect for service people if they were just honest about their position as I am with mine. Just come out and say it really has nothing to do with the quality of service 99% of the time and you just want (and expect) society to give you a boost to your income and you have no problem guilting people into it to get it done.

As for Uber specifically, as previously mentioned, there is that same sense of entitlement among the drivers as evidenced by most of the posts around here. They continue to participate in a broken system that they either went into willingly knowing it was unsustainable or went into without bothering to sit down like a rational individual and conducting a cost benefit analysis of their expenses and income. For some, I understand rates were cut and percentages changed. I'm sorry, but that is the real world. That is business. I'm not going to change the way I live my life, or feel bad, because they can't properly run their life. I don't feel that should be my burden and my charity is better served to people more in need. As mentioned, there are plenty of other jobs out there for low skilled labor that pay better, and that aren't this type of independent contractor relationship, yet it sounds like many drivers would rather stick with this and expect (and guilt) the passengers to make up for that decision. Why should we?


----------



## maxista

Your sentences are so densely compacted with this sense of "I'm better/smarter/more worthy" than you, it makes me just immediately lose interest. You dare talk about a sense of entitlement? You spent a tremendous amount of time establishing that you're a lawyer. Let me break it to you dude, no one is impressed. It's all very simple you see, let me spell it out for you very clearly:

You are a hypocrite. You are the archetype of a giant self inflated sense of entitlement. You are the kind of person that makes America one of the most unjust, dangerous places to live in the world. You are horribly confused about life, the value of life, your community and your role in it. You are not generous. You are selfish. You are here spending all this energy on something as pathetic as refusing to share a few bucks with someone who provides you a service you clearly don't respect. It is abhorrent. It is people like you who continue to consider the world and the things in it as just "things" that exist for your "benefit" as a customer, that make the world a worse place. Every time you go out into the world, you are making it worse. You sir, are disgusting. You're pathetic. 

Face life, yours is not worth anymore than anyone elses. Learn to share. Open up your cold dead heart. Your shit still stinks, lawyer, or not.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> Your sentences are so densely compacted with this sense of "I'm better/smarter/more worthy" than you, it makes me just immediately lose interest. You dare talk about a sense of entitlement? You spent a tremendous amount of time establishing that you're a lawyer. I'm sorry to break it to you, but no one is impressed. It's all very simple you see, let me spell it out for you once again:
> 
> You are a hypocrite. You are the archetype of an entitled prick with a holier than though sense of unjustified superiority. You are the kind of person that makes America one of the most unjust, dangerous places to live in the world. You are horribly confused about life, the value of life, your community and your role in it. You are not generous. You are selfish. You are a loser and a troll for being here spending all this energy on something as pathetic as refusing to share a few bucks with someone who provides you a service you clearly don't respect. It is people like you, who continue to consider the world and the things in it, as just "things" that exist for your "benefit" as a customer, that make the world a worse place. You sir, are disgusting. You're pathetic. Face life, yours is not worth anymore than anyone elses. Learn to share. Open up your cold dead heart. Your shit still stinks.


Wow.... not even sure where to begin with this one. I apologize that my writing style is not to your liking. I will trys to writes better for you in da future. You guys are SOOOOO obsessed with this lawyer thing. Can't you get it through your head that I AM NOT THE ONE THAT EVEN BROUGHT IT UP? I want people to be so jealous of me when I wasn't even the one that offered the information unrequested. I NEVER spoke about my profession as I didn't feel it was relevant. A user here asked me, and I answered him. Should I have lied? But no, keep on going with that story that I want people to be impressed. And that "tremendous amount of time" I spent consisted of getting up, walking across the room, taking out my wallet, snapping a photo, and uploading it. Yup, that was so much effort. Perhaps YOU need to come to terms with the fact that you are unhappy with your place in life so you think that everyone that is happy is trying to rub your face in it. I hate to tell you buddy, but I am not the one that is confused about life. I'm not the one living in a fantasy land. Perhaps someone needs to break it to you, the reason it is called the SERVICE INDUSTRY is, you know, because the entire purpose is to SERVE. Yeah, I do think it exists for the benefit of the customer. That kind of is the point. That doesn't mean treating the workers like crap (like some people have a habit of doing), but that also doesn't mean giving hand outs to everyone that asks either. You can respect someone without giving them money.


----------



## maxista

Do you not see that you're a spec of dust? Do you not see that your assumptions about others, about your role as consumer, are narrow, short sighted, and full of a giant sense of entitlement? As a lawyer, do you not serve your clients? We all have our masters, even you. Your ego, your sense of self is deluded. You have no idea who I am, you don't know what happy and unhappy mean to me. Those two emotions aren't a default setting of any person for all time. People can be complex, it's part of the human condition to feel sad, happy, angry with the way things are. Being critical and unhappiness are not the same things... Christ man. I'm throwing my pearls before swine. This is a waste of my time.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> Do you not see that you're a spec of dust? Do you not see that your assumptions about others, about your role as consumer, are narrow, short sighted, and full of a giant sense of entitlement? As a lawyer, do you not serve your clients? We all have our masters, even you. Your ego, your sense of self is deluded. You have no idea who I am, you don't know what happy and unhappy mean to me. Those two emotions aren't a default setting of any person for all time. People can be complex, it's part of the human condition to feel sad, happy, angry with the way things are. Being critical and unhappiness are not the same things... Christ man. I'm throwing my pearls before swine. This is a waste of my time.


Yes I answer to my client, what is the point? I sure as hell wish they were tipping me, I tell you that. Perhaps I should put a tip jar out on my desk and berate them for not tossing me a buck or two. Once again, hate to break it to you, but as a CUSTOMER I am kind of entitled and have every right to be. I am entitled to the service I paid for at the level of quality advertised. That is kind of how the money for services thing works. Once again, no need to treat people like garbage, that is not what I do or propose. I treat service people with respect in person, I just don't feel I need to pay them more than the contracted rate to do so. As a PROVIDER of a service, you however, are NOT in the position to be entitled to anything other than your agreed upon rate, and common courtesy. A gratuity is to be earned, not expected.


----------



## maxista

This is the last thing I have to say to you. I reject your assumptions. I reject your reasoning. I reject the narrative you prescribe to and are an apologist for. I reject it with every fiber in my being. You are missing the points I am making. Human beings are not "customers", we are not limited to and by socioeconomic constructs that pre-define how we ought to act and not act. I reject your reasoning on moral and spiritual grounds. I could very well use your own words against you, but I will leave you with this simple last phrase. Grow.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> This is the last thing I have to say to you. I reject your assumptions. I reject your reasoning. I reject the narrative you prescribe to and are an apologist for. I reject it with every fiber in my being. You are missing the points I am making. Human beings are not "customers", we are not limited to and by socioeconomic constructs that pre-define how we ought to act and not act. I reject your reasoning on moral and spiritual grounds. I could very well use your own words against you, but I will leave you with this simple last phrase. Grow.


HA, you want to talk about not acting according to constructs that pre-define how we ought to act and not act yet berate someone for not buying into the tipping system which SPECIFICALLY defines how we ought to act and not act.


----------



## Agent99

Agent99 said:


> Indeed, this thread has become ridiculous, complete with personal attacks that the attorney isn't an attorney, doesn't have morals, or is a troll. All because he takes a position some people don't like. The funny thing is he isn't as extreme as he comes across. He concedes that 1) Uber probably should have a tip option in the app (like Lyft) and that 2) tipping should be for a driver going "above and beyond" rather than be an automatic expectation (tipping culture). As a driver I agree with both these points.
> 
> Unlike most threads, this one really got me thinking. How much more would a driver get if there was an in app tipping function? About 8-10% more net pay, from my experience with Lyft. 30-40% tip me, which means 60-70% do not. Would I like an extra 10% pay through Uber? Of course. Do I think that those who tip me do so because I have gone "above and beyond"? I would like to think so. Does it bother me that Uber makes rewarding a driver for going above and beyond very difficult? Yes. On the other hand, we are only talking about 10% more compensation which I can make up by concentrating more on surge trips. Then I feel fairly compensated for my time, and tipping becomes irrelevant.
> 
> Uber just dropped rates in a large number of cities. Fortunately, they decided against a rate cut in my city (Seattle), but many other cities were absolutely pounded. Seattle is $1.35 a mile (before Uber takes its cut.) Detroit just dropped to 30 cents a mile. Absolutely ridiculous, and if I was a Detroit driver I would quit now. I think the compensation for drivers is in most cities low, lower, or insane. That issue is much, much bigger for drivers than getting tips or not.


Hey, There's No Need To Tip, I have at least TRIED to shift the conversation away from the personal attacks and onto other things.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Agent99 said:


> Hey, There's No Need To Tip, I have at least TRIED to shift the conversation away from the personal attacks and onto other things.


Yes, and it is appreciated. Note how I try not to put everyone here in the same basket. There are some trying to have a rational conversation and are certainly entitled to their own opposing viewpoint.


----------



## promdog

*Actual Troll Alert: maxista*

I want to break this down so you are aware what is happening even if you may already know. I've seen the "maxista" troll type before. First they ask a couple of innocent sounding questions to bait you into acknowledging they exist. They sound like they *just want to understand* where you're coming from. They generally sound all cool, sweet, and inquisitive-like...



maxista said:


> Dear Mr. There's No Need To Tip, I would like to know, why are you spending all this time trying to convince a bunch of drivers, on an Uber driver forum, that not tipping is an OK thing to do? I'm just... really confused as to why you're here spending so much energy and time on this.
> 
> While it's true that there are contradictions in service culture and tipping, as you pointed out with fast food early in this thread, why does that confusion make you so against tipping someone a little bit of your cash?
> 
> If you resent Uber drivers so much, why are you spending so much time trying to get us to feel bad for you? I don't really understand your angle. Who's your intended audience? Are you trying to tell this to riders or drivers? Is this all so you can reassure yourself? What do you want man?


Notice the use of the term "Dear" as a salutation. It's difficult not to be suckered into talking to them.



maxista said:


> Your sentences are so densely compacted with this sense of "I'm better/smarter/more worthy" than you, it makes me just immediately lose interest. You dare talk about a sense of entitlement? You spent a tremendous amount of time establishing that you're a lawyer. Let me break it to you dude, no one is impressed. It's all very simple you see, let me spell it out for you very clearly:
> 
> You are a hypocrite. You are the archetype of a giant self inflated sense of entitlement. You are the kind of person that makes America one of the most unjust, dangerous places to live in the world. You are horribly confused about life, the value of life, your community and your role in it. You are not generous. You are selfish. You are here spending all this energy on something as pathetic as refusing to share a few bucks with someone who provides you a service you clearly don't respect. It is abhorrent. It is people like you who continue to consider the world and the things in it as just "things" that exist for your "benefit" as a customer, that make the world a worse place. Every time you go out into the world, you are making it worse. You sir, are disgusting. You're pathetic.
> 
> Face life, yours is not worth anymore than anyone elses. Learn to share. Open up your cold dead heart. Your shit still stinks, lawyer, or not.


After being responded to, notice how the tone immediately changes. "You are a hypocrite" says the person who started with "Dear Mr." and ends with a battery of personal attacks.



maxista said:


> Do you not see that you're a spec of dust? Do you not see that your assumptions about others, about your role as consumer, are narrow, short sighted, and full of a giant sense of entitlement? As a lawyer, do you not serve your clients? We all have our masters, even you. Your ego, your sense of self is deluded. You have no idea who I am, you don't know what happy and unhappy mean to me. Those two emotions aren't a default setting of any person for all time. People can be complex, it's part of the human condition to feel sad, happy, angry with the way things are. Being critical and unhappiness are not the same things... Christ man. I'm throwing my pearls before swine. This is a waste of my time.


Here the troll goes back to asking questions, albeit from a righteous (and somewhat religious) tone. The same person who made critique of "sentences densely compacted with the sense of 'Im better/smarter/more worth' " is now spewing the same poison he accused others were. Pearls? Pearls? Pearls? You have pearls to be thrown?

Yes, it became clear with, "I'm throwing my pearls before swine". Christian Bible Verse, Mathew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." You couldn't come up with something original yourself? What did you just come home from church a few hours ago to post in this thread after hear your pastor talking about hypocrisy? You needed to practice on people in this forum? Obviously, a self-proclaimed Christian, how dare you speak and use *your* God's words in vain and with such violence. How dare *you *sir! And yet a few passages away, Christ has also said, ""Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" (Matthew 7:4)

Next time pray before you come rambling your hatred! Evangelical Christians *like you* are the worst kinds of trolls. You don't deserve the air you breath and you give Christianity as a whole a bad name.



maxista said:


> This is the last thing I have to say to you. I reject your assumptions. I reject your reasoning. I reject the narrative you prescribe to and are an apologist for. I reject it with every fiber in my being. You are missing the points I am making. Human beings are not "customers", we are not limited to and by socioeconomic constructs that pre-define how we ought to act and not act. I reject your reasoning on moral and spiritual grounds. I could very well use your own words against you, but I will leave you with this simple last phrase. Grow.


Blah blah blah... Who cares... Unoriginal... WeakSauce... Reject... Jerky...


----------



## Agent99

There's No Need To Tip,

I'll tell you a little secret. A major reason why you're detecting entitlement and expectation regarding tips is because a large percentage of Uber drivers used to be taxi drivers. They have simply carried their expectation of a tip from their previous work as taxi drivers to their new work as Uber drivers.


----------



## promdog

Agent99 said:


> There's No Need To Tip,
> 
> I'll tell you a little secret. A major reason why you're detecting entitlement and expectation regarding tips is because a large percentage of Uber drivers used to be taxi drivers. They have simply carried their expectation of a tip from their previous work as taxi drivers to their new work as Uber drivers.


Ooooo. I like secrets! Do you have any for me? 

This may be 100% true. However, being that the case, it still doesn't warrant the personal attacks, the shaming tactics, and the despicable verbal abuse I've seen in this thread as of late.


----------



## Agent99

promdog said:


> Ooooo. I like secrets! Do you have any for me?
> 
> This may be 100% true. However, being that the case, it still doesn't warrant the personal attacks, the shaming tactics, and the despicable verbal abuse I've seen in this thread as of late.


I figure that TNNTT can take care of himself. I was trying to change the subject.


----------



## promdog

Agent99 said:


> I figure that TNNTT can take care of himself. I was trying to change the subject.


got it...

so, why does TNTT get a secret reveal and i don't?


----------



## Dar-K

TNNTT has the right to not tip, if he chooses. If he believes it is not necessary or required, he has the right to do as he pleases. Driver's, have the right to 1* him, as they wish. Which may be due to with the new low rates, they are hoping to not have to provide the services to TNNTT again. If TNNTT uses the 1* rating as a way to get Uber to get a refund, than that just shows his class, but so be it. I would imagine, over time, Uber would see him as a repeat offender. If he does not care about his rating, than so be it. We all know PAX can have super low rating(s) and still net rides. There will always be someone who will take those rides (Which will probably be someone new, curious on the PAX, or just bored). 
We as drivers, will just need to continue informing customers how much we truly make, if they ask (Which a lot do). Let them know how much we make, by breaking down the rates, than throw in the tidbit that we may only get a few rides an hour. I'm sure, if they realize you are only making near minimum wage, they may feel obligated to tip w/o even bringing up tipping into the conversation.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

There's no need to tip said:


> Yes, they say tip is included BECAUSE IT IS.... It is included in the rate you are being paid by them. That is the whole point. It is a matter of semantics. Included, not required, whatever you want to call it. The point is, it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You get in the car, you take your trip, you are done. You knew that, and I knew that. I don't particularly care if they call it a tip, a salary, or anything else. I, and all other uber passengers, signed up for a system where what you are paid is what you are paid unlike a restaurant situation. Why is that so hard to understand? My problem with allowing for an "optional" tipping option is that it will become an EXPECTATION and societal requirement just like every other tip based system we have in this country. I am sick of being pressured into shit I'm not sure I should even be paying. If the amount they are now giving you is too low, I understand that, but don't take that out on the passenger. I assume the amount you were getting before was so high BECAUSE "tip was included." I understand that Uber turned around and screwed the drivers and slashed rates but that isn't my problem. I know it is a cold opinion but it is the truth. I want to participate in a tipless system plain and simple. If you as a driver don't, then don't.


Is it safe to assume you've never given out a tip in your life ?


----------



## Agent99

When I first signed up with Uber nearly 2 years ago, a big selling point was that this is not a taxi, this is not the taxi experience. Offering water or candy, and having no expectation of a tip were two examples of how Uber was a "not a taxi" experience. So, imagine my confusion when I observed that many Uber drivers were actually taxi drivers. And that would be okay if they didn't bring their bad habits with them.

In terms of who they have been hiring, Uber has been aggressively undermining their own non-taxi model. Their repeated rate cuts further reduced the quality of drivers, and in a vicious circle, the low quality of drivers helped Uber justify their "driver as commodity" mentality and still more rate cuts. After all, who cares what drivers get paid if there's no value added, no behavior that distinguishes them, no customer service or quality that says this is anything more than a taxi experience. Then we fast forward to this thread. Why would a passenger want to tip in cash an Uber driver if he is merely offering the same old stereotypically negative taxi experience?


----------



## maxista

You think I'm an evangelical Christian because I used a few Bible verses? Too funny. I happen to like Bible verses, but I'm not a Christian, so you're far off there. 

Those of you making the case against tips are very confused about life. If disagreeing with you makes me a troll, your definition of the word is spin. But let me tell you why I'm not a troll and why all of you who agree with "There's no need to tip" are. It's super simple. 

You're on an online Uber driver forum, trying to convince us that you're not a cheapskate! Pretty simple. 

You guys are complete cheapskates who have no sympathy for your fellow man. You don't care about your community. You don't want your neighbors to live well. Furthermore, you're so confused in your own lives, that you spend precious minutes and hours trying to argue why you can't and won't be generous. It's PATHETIC.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Agent99 said:


> When I first signed up with Uber nearly 2 years ago, a big selling point was that this is not a taxi, this is not the taxi experience. Offering water or candy, and having no expectation of a tip were two examples of how Uber was a "not a taxi" experience. So, imagine my confusion when I observed that many Uber drivers were actually taxi drivers. And that would be okay if they didn't bring their bad habits with them.
> 
> In terms of who they have been hiring, Uber has been aggressively undermining their own non-taxi model. Their repeated rate cuts further reduced the quality of drivers, and in a vicious circle, the low quality of drivers helped Uber justify their "driver as commodity" mentality and still more rate cuts. After all, who cares what drivers get paid if there's no value added, no behavior that distinguishes them, no customer service or quality that says this is anything more than a taxi experience. Then we fast forward to this thread. Why would a passenger want to tip in cash an Uber driver if he is merely offering the same old stereotypically negative taxi experience?


My pax tell me all the time how I'm so much better than a taxi but they still don't tip.

So my question to you is what is the incentive to the DRIVER to GIVE a better "non taxi" experience if they are bring treated like sh** by uber AND by the pax?

When the rates were better uber drivers were happy to try harder to make the pax happy. But with lower rates and the pax not willing to make up the difference why bother? Without tips a driver who dies everything possible to make it a great trip makes exactly as much on that trip as a driver who doesn't do anything but drive from a to b. You only have to stay good enough to not get deactivated.

And tbe "bad" driver may actually make more since he doesn't wait for pax, make grocery store stops, and doesn't cherry pick.

So instead of asking why pax should tip, ask why we should do ANYTHING extra when it won't matter and may even hurt us?

My pizza delivery customers who tip get better service. I know who they are as its 95% repeat business.

With uber I have little repeat business. But a pax who gives me a tip up front and asks me to stop at the store will get better service than one who doesn't. If I knew tipping was likely the tip wouldn't need to be up front. I would work harder to not "lose" it.

Or as we have said before here: you get what you pay for.


----------



## maxista

Fuzzyelvis said:


> My pax tell me all the time how I'm so much better than a taxi but they still don't tip.
> 
> So my question to you is what is the incentive to the DRIVER to GIVE a better "non taxi" experience if they are bring treated like sh** by uber AND by the pax?
> 
> When the rates were better uber drivers were happy to try harder to make the pax happy. But with lower rates and the pax not willing to make up the difference why bother? Without tips a driver who dies everything possible to make it a great trip makes exactly as much on that trip as a driver who doesn't do anything but drive from a to b. You only have to stay good enough to not get deactivated.
> 
> And tbe "bad" driver may actually make more since he doesn't wait for pax, make grocery store stops, and doesn't cherry pick.
> 
> So instead of asking why pax should tip, ask why we should do ANYTHING extra when it won't matter and may even hurt us?
> 
> My pizza delivery customers who tip get better service. I know who they are as its 95% repeat business.
> 
> With uber I have little repeat business. But a pax who gives me a tip up front and asks me to stop at the store will get better service than one who doesn't. If I knew tipping was likely the tip wouldn't need to be up front. I would work harder to not "lose" it.
> 
> Or as we have said before here: you get what you pay for.


These people don't care about any of that. The way they see it, it's up to us to "take it up with Uber" because according to them, the "tip was always included". The problem with that of course, is that it's not, and that's why Uber has changed its wording from "included" to "not necessary" because of the lawsuits involved. Uber lies. These guys are buying into the lies hook line and sinker because they don't care and are cheap mean selfish people. While I couldn't agree with you more, you're wasting your time on these fools.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> These people don't care about any of that. The way they see it, it's up to us to "take it up with Uber" because according to them, the "tip was always included". The problem with that of course, is that it's not, and that's why Uber has changed its wording from "included" to "not necessary" because of the lawsuits involved. Uber lies. These guys are buying into the lies hook line and sinker because they don't care and are cheap mean selfish people. While I couldn't agree with you more, you're wasting your time on these fools.


Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit.... I am 100% on board with someone going ABOVE AND BEYOND getting a tip. That doesn't mean above and beyond a regular taxi driver. It means above and beyond a regular Uber driver. Uber has certain rules and guidelines for their drivers. If you follow those, you are just doing the job. If you don't, you aren't doing the job. I shouldn't have to tip you to meet the basic service level required by Uber. The "incentive" at that point is not being reported. However, if going to the grocery store and other such things are above and beyond (I don't know what Uber handbook says about such things), then by all means, a tip is deserved and EARNED. No one ever argued against such points. Those of us that have been arguing against a "gratuity" are only opposed to it for run of the mill service. I'm not a very picky passenger, I really don't require much. As previously mentioned, all I need working is working AC, getting me to my destination in an efficient manner (no long hauling like the Uber driver tried to pull on me in Vegas and I reported his ass SO fast), and not driving like a maniac violating the rules of the road. I don't require "smooth conversation," opening my door for me, lifting my bags, or anything else. Some people might, and that is fine for them. If for some reason I do need something outside the normal course of business, I would happily take my wallet out. It just so happens I don't generally require what you consider "exceptional" service.


----------



## maxista

My reading comprehension is fine, in fact remember when you said?

_"I usually only tip in situations where I am with others, and in those situations I tip well. Not because I feel what I am doing is wrong, but because some of my companions most likely believe it to be and social standing is important in life. I don't tip very high or at all in situations where I am by myself."_​
Social standing is important in life? OK. More important than the well being of the people who serve you then... 
- selfish 
- deluded
- shallow

What about what you just said in the last post about "exceptional" not needing to be that "exceptional" for you to tip? I thought you didn't tip at all in most situations? 
- contradictory 
- hypocritical

Up until now your message seemed to be saying: no, no, no, tip no, no, no, Uber said no, not my problem, no no no.

Seriously, shouldn't you be on some important lawyer business? You still want to argue while contradicting everything you say? I think it's all there man. Too funny. I'm starting to think you're a paid Uber troll.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> My reading comprehension is fine, in fact remember when you said?
> 
> _"I usually only tip in situations where I am with others, and in those situations I tip well. Not because I feel what I am doing is wrong, but because some of my companions most likely believe it to be and social standing is important in life. I don't tip very high or at all in situations where I am by myself."_​
> Social standing is important in life? OK. More important than the well being of the people who serve you then...
> - selfish
> - deluded
> - shallow
> 
> What about what you just said in the last post about "exceptional" not needing to be that "exceptional" for you to tip? I thought you didn't tip at all in most situations?
> - contradictory
> - hypocritical
> 
> Up until now your message seemed to be saying: no, no, no, tip no, no, no, Uber said no, not my problem, no no no.
> 
> Seriously, shouldn't you be on some important lawyer business? You still want to argue while contradicting everything you say? I think it's all there man. Too funny. I'm starting to think you're a paid Uber troll.


Perhaps we should be posting the ENTIRE quote instead of picking and choosing certain sections which tend to make us look better....

"I used to tip well all the time but more recently with the prevalence of tip jars everywhere and the like, and the more I really thought about it, *unless someone does something above and beyond for me*, I usually only tip in situations where I am with others, and in those situations I tip well. Not because I feel what I am doing is wrong, but because some of my companions most likely believe it to be and social standing is important in life. I don't tip very high or at all in situations where I am by myself. I wouldn't choose to tip if not pressured to do so. All employees must make minimum wage either through salary or tips. If they don't get it in tips the employer must make up the difference. I don't really see a need to pay any additional money."

Anyone with a modicum of reading skills would understand what I was saying, especially in combination with my other posts on the subject. Exceptional above and beyond service = tip. Basic regular doing the job = no tip.


----------



## maxista

No tip = doesn't care about my life = 1 star
Tip = gets it = 5 stars

You don't get it bro. Everyone's idea of exceptional is different. I have wonderful conversations, I offer water, gum, I ask what route people prefer. I am fun, easy to talk to, inquisitive and respectful of boundaries, and guess what. 10% of the people on Uber tip me. It's a joke. Uber is screwing us. You know this, it's been explained to you. The bottom line is you're making this about YOU and it's not. It's about us. So you don't get it. You never will, because at the end of the day, YOU DON'T CARE. 

Again, no tip = 1 star. 
Tip = 5 starts.


----------



## SaucedandLost

Stick up for you guys


----------



## bdriven

There's no need to tip said:


> I like the way you think. I agree wholeheartedly.


There's no need,
Do you tip taxi cab drivers? If yes, why?
Thank you


----------



## There’s no need to tip

bdriven said:


> There's no need,
> Do you tip taxi cab drivers? If yes, why?
> Thank you


Yes, if there is some type of service above and beyond the normal course of business. If not, I swipe, hit 0, and bounce.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

Very clever, but exposed.


----------



## gravelaine

This admin paralegal secretary is still arguing the fact tips are included in the fares?

And by this time, you would have thought he would have asked his dad who works at the firm to ask him what he thought about Uber's language regarding the tipping to clarify it. Or maybe someone above his pay grade since he clearly can not afford to tip.

But of course it is better to troll Uber drivers regarding this subject and continue smelling his own shit after a dump.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

maxista said:


> My reading comprehension is fine, in fact remember when you said?
> 
> _"I usually only tip in situations where I am with others, and in those situations I tip well. Not because I feel what I am doing is wrong, but because some of my companions most likely believe it to be and social standing is important in life. I don't tip very high or at all in situations where I am by myself."_​
> Social standing is important in life? OK. More important than the well being of the people who serve you then...
> - selfish
> - deluded
> - shallow
> 
> What about what you just said in the last post about "exceptional" not needing to be that "exceptional" for you to tip? I thought you didn't tip at all in most situations?
> - contradictory
> - hypocritical
> 
> Up until now your message seemed to be saying: no, no, no, tip no, no, no, Uber said no, not my problem, no no no.
> 
> Seriously, shouldn't you be on some important lawyer business? You still want to argue while contradicting everything you say? I think it's all there man. Too funny. I'm starting to think you're a paid Uber troll.


I think maybe he's just a really BAD lawyer.

Just because you're last in your class and barely pass the bar on your 4th try doesn't mean you don't still get to be a lawyer.

Notice how he talks about "Uber's rules and guidelines" and "handbook"?

Like we're employees. Well maybe at some point we will be found to be that but right now according to uber we're not. So he's certainly not practising labor law.

The way the rates are, being an "exceptional" Uber driver will soon mean showing up. Cancel fees are becoming more and more attractive than actually attempting to drive the likes of him.


----------



## Agent99

Fuzzyelvis said:


> My pax tell me all the time how I'm so much better than a taxi but they still don't tip.
> 
> So my question to you is what is the incentive to the DRIVER to GIVE a better "non taxi" experience if they are bring treated like sh** by uber AND by the pax?
> 
> When the rates were better uber drivers were happy to try harder to make the pax happy. But with lower rates and the pax not willing to make up the difference why bother? Without tips a driver who dies everything possible to make it a great trip makes exactly as much on that trip as a driver who doesn't do anything but drive from a to b. You only have to stay good enough to not get deactivated.
> 
> And tbe "bad" driver may actually make more since he doesn't wait for pax, make grocery store stops, and doesn't cherry pick.
> 
> So instead of asking why pax should tip, ask why we should do ANYTHING extra when it won't matter and may even hurt us?
> 
> My pizza delivery customers who tip get better service. I know who they are as its 95% repeat business.
> 
> With uber I have little repeat business. But a pax who gives me a tip up front and asks me to stop at the store will get better service than one who doesn't. If I knew tipping was likely the tip wouldn't need to be up front. I would work harder to not "lose" it.
> 
> Or as we have said before here: you get what you pay for.


Fuzzyelvis did a really good job and spared me from having to take my time to write a similar post. I have always believed that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well, and that attitude has infused my work in most of my professional work life. I have been financially well rewarded and well regarded for that quality attitude and desire for excellence, etc. When I started driving for UberX almost two years ago part-time I thought Uber had a similar mindset as I and my services were about both price and quality. Uber had the motto of "your private driver", an image that projected an image of professionalism and quality (it also gives the connotation of a chauffeur.) My price (rate per mile) at that time, $1.85 per mile if I remember correctly, was already a third less than taxi rates and nobody complained about the rate. I started with the chauffeur-like attitude though without the suit and tie. Uber was supposed to be the non-taxi experience.

Then a San Francisco Uber driver mowed down a Chinese family, and Uber disavowed all responsibity. I heard that there were dozens if not hundreds of other cases with similar outcomes, but this one case got big media attention because a girl was killed. Venture capitalist Peter Thiel said "Uber is the most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley". It became harder to look the other way regarding how Uber does things.

I then discovered (like most other drivers) that Uber was all about bait and switch behavior and their projected image of quality was mostly a lie (from drivers' point of view anyway). Efficiency, yes. Quality, no. Uber has given lip service to quality with recommendations on improving quality of service to get better ratings, while in practice repeatedly undermining and scaring away their better quality drivers. It took a while for me to realize that Uber may like, prefer, and suggest quality behavior from its drivers; in practice they have been completely unwilling to compensate UberX drivers for quality. They have negligible hiring standards and have hired hundreds of thousands of taxi drivers, many (not all) of whom brought their bad habits with them (the expectation of an obligatory tip being one of them). Not only are they unwilling to compensate/incentivize drivers for extra or exceptional services ("going above and beyond"), they are unwilling to pay reasonable compensation for even run of the mill service. It's only about price and price wars (with Lyft). With seemingly relentless rate drops (Detroit now at $.30 a mile compared to $2.15 in New York City), many of the best remaining drivers are bailing out, leaving UberX with more beat up cars, the drivers with the worst communication skills, worst customer service skills and worst attitudes.

I can tolerate the rate cut carnage going on now in 80 cities because my city has escaped another rate drop (so far) and because I only do it part time. Since Uber doesn't incentivize or compensate me in any way with reasonable regular rates, in-app tipping, or other methods, for going the extra mile or making any sacrifice, I am relentless in:

- driving mostly surge fares,
- declining rides from people with low ratings (below 4.7),
- declining rides from people over 6 minutes away,
- canceling rides if the person is not in the car within two minutes,
- canceling ride requests that are from grocery stores,
- canceling rides that are from fast food restaurants,
- canceling rides ordered from establishments that sell marijuana (legal here),
- driving away and canceling if I determine that the passenger is a smoker,
- driving away and canceling if the passenger is drunk,
- cancelling rides instead of looking for riders who put pin in the wrong place,
- not allowing food to be eaten in the car,
- declining ride requests from bus zones and "no stopping allowed" areas,
- driving for Lyft instead.

(I am curious what other items other drivers would add to or change about the above list.)
As you can see, I now take my "do the best I can possibly do" attitude and often refocus it on self preservation of my income, rating, car, and time, rather than on customer service.

Having first done all the above things to protect myself, if you do manage to get past all the above hurdles you'll still find I'm a quality driver with a helpful and friendly attitude. Likewise, if you got past all those hurdles you are probably a pleasant passenger and if so you won't need to bribe me with a tip just for me to put up with you.


----------



## maxista

SaucedandLost said:


> Stick up for you guys


Whoever wrote that we "depend on good reviews" is so out of it. Awesome reply btw. Well done.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

gravelaine said:


> This admin paralegal secretary is still arguing the fact tips are included in the fares?
> 
> And by this time, you would have thought he would have asked his dad who works at the firm to ask him what he thought about Uber's language regarding the tipping to clarify it. Or maybe someone above his pay grade since he clearly can not afford to tip.
> 
> But of course it is better to troll Uber drivers regarding this subject and continue smelling his own shit after a dump.





Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think maybe he's just a really BAD lawyer.
> 
> Just because you're last in your class and barely pass the bar on your 4th try doesn't mean you don't still get to be a lawyer.
> 
> Notice how he talks about "Uber's rules and guidelines" and "handbook"?
> 
> Like we're employees. Well maybe at some point we will be found to be that but right now according to uber we're not. So he's certainly not practising labor law.
> 
> The way the rates are, being an "exceptional" Uber driver will soon mean showing up. Cancel fees are becoming more and more attractive than actually attempting to drive the likes of him.


It is becoming increasingly difficult not to rip into you guys but I will keep my composure as long as I can. Wouldn't want to lower myself to your level. And you wonder why no one wants to tip you... No I was not last in my class (I was top 15%), no I did not take the bar exam 4 times, I passed on the first try. I also have plenty of money thank you very much. One of the reasons why is by not wasting it on people like you (specifically these two individuals). Keep up your fantasies. Whatever helps you sleep well at night. I know that I do.

No, I don't practice labor law. I also specifically mentioned that I don't have any knowledge as to what Uber provides drivers when they sign up. In one post I actually said I wanted to sign up for myself just to see what is provided. I assumed there was some type of documentation they provide. That is what is meant by rules, guideline, or handbook. I love how you guys keep bringing up things that have nothing to do with anything in a failed attempt to discredit my position.


----------



## maxista

There's no need to tip said:


> It is becoming increasingly difficult not to rip into you guys but I will keep my composure as long as I can. Wouldn't want to lower myself to your level. And you wonder why no one wants to tip you... No I was not last in my class (I was top 15%), no I did not take the bar exam 4 times, I passed on the first try. I also have plenty of money thank you very much. One of the reasons why is by not wasting it on people like you (specifically these two individuals). Keep up your fantasies. Whatever helps you sleep well at night. I know that I do.
> 
> No, I don't practice labor law. I also specifically mentioned that I don't have any knowledge as to what Uber provides drivers when they sign up. In one post I actually said I wanted to sign up for myself just to see what is provided. I assumed there was some type of documentation they provide. That is what is meant by rules, guideline, or handbook. I love how you guys keep bringing up things that have nothing to do with anything in a failed attempt to discredit my position.


No one cares. NO ONE CARES. WHY ARE YOU HERE?!


----------



## gravelaine

maxista said:


> No one cares. NO ONE CARES. WHY ARE YOU HERE?!


Too long to read his novel. Did he finally admit tips are not included in the fares and it is customary to tip taxi drivers?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> No one cares. NO ONE CARES. WHY ARE YOU HERE?!


Now... now.... Let's not burst a blood vessel. Deep breaths. In.... and out. In.... and out. Now don't you feel better? Can I have a tip for my good advice and smooth conversation now please?


----------



## maxista

There's no need to tip said:


> Now... now.... Let's not burst a blood vessel. Deep breaths. In.... and out. In.... and out. Now don't you feel better? Can I have a tip for my good advice and smooth conversation now please?


You are the definition of a troll.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> It is becoming increasingly difficult not to rip into you guys but I will keep my composure as long as I can. Wouldn't want to lower myself to your level. And you wonder why no one wants to tip you... No I was not last in my class (I was top 15%), no I did not take the bar exam 4 times, I passed on the first try. I also have plenty of money thank you very much. One of the reasons why is by not wasting it on people like you (specifically these two individuals). Keep up your fantasies. Whatever helps you sleep well at night. I know that I do.
> 
> No, I don't practice labor law. I also specifically mentioned that I don't have any knowledge as to what Uber provides drivers when they sign up. In one post I actually said I wanted to sign up for myself just to see what is provided. I assumed there was some type of documentation they provide. That is what is meant by rules, guideline, or handbook. I love how you guys keep bringing up things that have nothing to do with anything in a failed attempt to discredit my position.


Is your name Mr. Pink, by any chance?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> Is your name Mr. Pink, by any chance?


Yeah, I think I posted that video in this thread or a different one. The guy made very valid points.



maxista said:


> You are the definition of a troll.


Yeah, I agree with you with that last post I made. I'm only human though. I couldn't resist.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

gravelaine said:


> Too long to read his novel. Did he finally admit tips are not included in the fares and it is customary to tip taxi drivers?


he is all over the map, it is but.... did at one time but only if.... yes only when others are looking(companions), most likely not when alone... etc


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> he is all over the map, it is but.... did at one time but only if.... yes only when others are looking(companions), most likely not when alone... etc


Once again..... brush up on some reading comprehension and it will all make sense. I can recommend some great learning tapes if you need. You know what, where do you drive? Hook me up with a ride and I will give it to you as a tip.

This is very simple:

1. I used to tip all the time like society says you should.

2. I learned the tipping system was BS and so I stopped tipping where I could do so without being crucified.

3. I currently only really tip when:

a. I am with a group of people

b. I am by myself and the service person has gone above and beyond for me

c. Some other out of the ordinary circumstance


----------



## Dar-K

We'll just summarize it all up real quick. 

TNNTT, liked that Uber claimed Tip include (or not required) as he is not a fan of tipping. He/She wants to avoid tipping whenever possible. Some people will praise him for standing his ground, others will likely crucify him. Depends on where you stand with people tipping Uber drivers. 
To help other(s) get a sense of what he is arguing, we all probably have a service area where we don't tip or expect to tip:
- Buffets
- House keeping when staying at hotels
- Playing BJ @ a Casino
- Your mail person or garbage person (during holidays)
& so much more unique situations where you may not think tipping is customary, expected, or even required.

We all, even if we are tippers, may have 1 area where we prefer not to tip. In this case, TNNTT's example is with Uber. -- And he's let it be pretty well known by everyone where he stands with that. From how he even utilizes some of the thing(s) driver's do to get Uber to refund his rides (Pretty class-less, but whatever, I'm sure we'd all be on the fence with that one (1 view is Uber loses $, but another view is a cheap PAX saves $). 
I'm sure there are many scenarios, I'd like to avoid T


----------



## Dar-K

We'll just summarize it all up real quick. 

TNNTT, liked that Uber claimed Tip include (or not required) as he is not a fan of tipping. He/She wants to avoid tipping whenever possible. Some people will praise him for standing his ground, others will likely crucify him. Depends on where you stand with people tipping Uber drivers. 
To help other(s) get a sense of what he is arguing, we all probably have a service area where we don't tip or expect to tip:
- Buffets
- House keeping when staying at hotels
- Playing BJ @ a Casino
- Your mail person or garbage person (during holidays)
& so much more unique situations where you may not think tipping is customary, expected, or even required.

We all, even if we are tippers, may have 1 area where we prefer not to tip. In this case, TNNTT's example is with Uber. -- And he's let it be pretty well known by everyone where he stands with that. From how he even utilizes some of the thing(s) driver's do to get Uber to refund his rides (Pretty class-less, but whatever, I'm sure we'd all be on the fence with that one (1 view is Uber loses $, but another view is a cheap PAX saves $). 
I'm sure there are many scenarios, I'd like to avoid Tipping.... And maybe I went, used that service, and didn't leave a tip. But one thing I can tell everyone is that I wouldn't sit on a public forum and sit there & waste my time trying to justify my actions with others who would probably & likely oppose my actions. 
So to you, TNNTT, I suppose life in the Lawyer business is slow, huh?? Time for a new hobby??


----------



## FautTousLesNiquerPtiteBte

This thread has saddened me a little bit with where humanity has gone. I will continue to tip drivers and tip them well if the service is great and not so well if the service is bad. I've always been used to tip taxi drivers and appreciate all the drivers that do this job especially with all the liabilities that come with it. Getting me from one place to another safely is tip worthy since drivers have my life in their hands. How a person like "There is no need to tip" argues against it reminds me unfortunately how fortunate I have it in life. I will try to look at it as the glass half full and imagine he tips his doorman very well. At least, the tips who should have gone to Uber drivers are going to another person who desperately needs it.

Have a Bless Year.


----------



## Agent99

Maybe he just enjoys having dialogue over the subject. Same reason I am here.


----------



## hanging in there

gravelaine post: 734986 said:


> Too long to read his novel. Did he finally admit tips are not included in the fares and it is customary to tip taxi drivers?


Not trying to rub it in but...
Last night picked up pax who said she normally takes Uber, but none were available on the app at the time. If I had given her that ride as an Uber it would have been $20 at the new reduced rates and a 5-star rating as a "tip" if I was lucky. Got $65.10 on the meter and a $50 tip, total on credit card $115.10.


----------



## FautTousLesNiquerPtiteBte

hanging in there said:


> Not trying to rub it in but...
> Last night picked up pax who said she normally takes Uber, but none were available on the app at the time. If I had given her that ride as an Uber it would have been $20 at the new reduced rates and a 5-star rating as a "tip" if I was lucky. Got $65.10 on the meter and a $50 tip, total on credit card $115.10.


Nice, finally a ray of sunshine out of this thread. And you would make my day and for the human race if she was an attorney out of New York.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> We'll just summarize it all up real quick.
> 
> TNNTT, liked that Uber claimed Tip include (or not required) as he is not a fan of tipping. He/She wants to avoid tipping whenever possible. Some people will praise him for standing his ground, others will likely crucify him. Depends on where you stand with people tipping Uber drivers.
> To help other(s) get a sense of what he is arguing, we all probably have a service area where we don't tip or expect to tip:
> - Buffets
> - House keeping when staying at hotels
> - Playing BJ @ a Casino
> - Your mail person or garbage person (during holidays)
> & so much more unique situations where you may not think tipping is customary, expected, or even required.
> 
> We all, even if we are tippers, may have 1 area where we prefer not to tip. In this case, TNNTT's example is with Uber. -- And he's let it be pretty well known by everyone where he stands with that. From how he even utilizes some of the thing(s) driver's do to get Uber to refund his rides (Pretty class-less, but whatever, I'm sure we'd all be on the fence with that one (1 view is Uber loses $, but another view is a cheap PAX saves $).
> I'm sure there are many scenarios, I'd like to avoid Tipping.... And maybe I went, used that service, and didn't leave a tip. But one thing I can tell everyone is that I wouldn't sit on a public forum and sit there & waste my time trying to justify my actions with others who would probably & likely oppose my actions.
> So to you, TNNTT, I suppose life in the Lawyer business is slow, huh?? Time for a new hobby??


Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Very good summary except for 1 thing that needs to be cleared up. I believe the only times I posted anything on here about getting a refund from Uber was when 1. The driver long hauled me in Vegas taking me the long was when I specifically told him to take the local route shown by the app (which is actually ILLEGAL in Vegas) and 2. When the driver couldn't get to me because the roads were blocked off due to an event, I offered to meet him at a street past the block, he said no and instead STARTED THE TRIP ANYWAY and kept it running for 20 mins. So I'm sorry but I fail to see how me getting a refund from Uber in those situations is in any way class-less.



FautTousLesNiquerPtiteBte said:


> This thread has saddened me a little bit with where humanity has gone. I will continue to tip drivers and tip them well if the service is great and not so well if the service is bad. I've always been used to tip taxi drivers and appreciate all the drivers that do this job especially with all the liabilities that come with it. Getting me from one place to another safely is tip worthy since drivers have my life in their hands. How a person like "There is no need to tip" argues against it reminds me unfortunately how fortunate I have it in life. I will try to look at it as the glass half full and imagine he tips his doorman very well. At least, the tips who should have gone to Uber drivers are going to another person who desperately needs it.
> 
> Have a Bless Year.


I don't know about you, but I'm sorry if I feel that a person that opens a door all day is entitled to no more than minimum wage. If he is tipped nothing, the employer has to make up the balance and make sure he gets minimum wage so I don't feel bad about that. I'm sorry, I'm sure he is a nice guy, but I just don't feel a pressing need to provide any more money for that. I don't really see why that would be so wrong. If we are talking about tips being charity, then just come out and say it. That is a completely different argument than what has been posted here previously.


----------



## FautTousLesNiquerPtiteBte

There's no need to tip said:


> Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Very good summary except for 1 thing that needs to be cleared up. I believe the only times I posted anything on here about getting a refund from Uber was when 1. The driver long hauled me in Vegas taking me the long was when I specifically told him to take the local route shown by the app (which is actually ILLEGAL in Vegas) and 2. When the driver couldn't get to me because the roads were blocked off due to an event, I offered to meet him at a street past the block, he said no and instead STARTED THE TRIP ANYWAY and kept it running for 20 mins. So I'm sorry but I fail to see how me getting a refund from Uber in those situations is in any way class-less.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I'm sorry if I feel that a person that opens a door all day is entitled to no more than minimum wage. If he is tipped nothing, the employer has to make up the balance and make sure he gets minimum wage so I don't feel bad about that. I'm sorry, I'm sure he is a nice guy, but I just don't feel a pressing need to provide any more money for that. I don't really see why that would be so wrong. If we are talking about tips being charity, then just come out and say it. That is a completely different argument than what has been posted here previously.


Not not at all. I just think if you feel minimum wage is fine to survive in the U.S. then I can not argue with that. The person does not just open doors (And that is where you appear shallow because the imagine you project is drivers a beneath you based on their line of work), but instead makes sure, you are being driven to the location you need to be at safely. Just that on its own, is simply enough to deserve a tip as we both know, driving is a big liability. And second, I believe this thread implied tips are not included in the fares. There is no need to go on a tangent about this as this is a fact. As a rider, I remember when Uber wrote "tips included" back in the days and I would not tip either. Now, reading their wording and they are very good about it, they choose to say "tips not necessary". I have accepted the change, but most importantly understood the change which leaves me now with tipping the drivers. I just find it very manipulative and not ethical in the way a business should be run. I believe, they keep it this way for two reasons. 1) They undercut the rates wanting us riders to use them instead of other share rider companies to make it look cheaper.
2) I believe, they are going through a lawsuit regarding this prior business because if tips were included, they should have not taken commission out of those "tips". So by keeping faith with their model, they were very careful at working it this way, ultimately making it confusing for the client.

I disagree with your first post which states it is a pressuring statement. In this industry in which tipping is customary, this statement would only advise clients tipping is simply not included. But that would make them look bad since their original model was to have tips included.

I have written way to much over this subject as you made it clear you do not tip which is your choice and it is clear tips are not included.



There's no need to tip said:


> Tip not included is a pressuring statement to make you feel guilty into leaving a tip because it kind of IS required. The language they have now is VERY self-explanatory. The tip isn't required because it isn't expected as part of the Uber service and never was. That doesn't mean you can't leave one if you want. It isn't like it says tips are prohibited. I, for one, feel the language is perfect.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

maxista said:


> No one cares. NO ONE CARES. WHY ARE YOU HERE?!





Dar-K said:


> We'll just summarize it all up real quick.
> 
> TNNTT, liked that Uber claimed Tip include (or not required) as he is not a fan of tipping. He/She wants to avoid tipping whenever possible. Some people will praise him for standing his ground, others will likely crucify him. Depends on where you stand with people tipping Uber drivers.
> To help other(s) get a sense of what he is arguing, we all probably have a service area where we don't tip or expect to tip:
> - Buffets
> - House keeping when staying at hotels
> - Playing BJ @ a Casino
> - Your mail person or garbage person (during holidays)
> & so much more unique situations where you may not think tipping is customary, expected, or even required.
> 
> We all, even if we are tippers, may have 1 area where we prefer not to tip. In this case, TNNTT's example is with Uber. -- And he's let it be pretty well known by everyone where he stands with that. From how he even utilizes some of the thing(s) driver's do to get Uber to refund his rides (Pretty class-less, but whatever, I'm sure we'd all be on the fence with that one (1 view is Uber loses $, but another view is a cheap PAX saves $).
> I'm sure there are many scenarios, I'd like to avoid T


He also said he didn't want to "waste" his money tipping us. So that tells you what he thinks of us.

Other than the gambling (I don't gamble) I tip all your examples btw.


----------



## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Very good summary except for 1 thing that needs to be cleared up. I believe the only times I posted anything on here about getting a refund from Uber was when 1. The driver long hauled me in Vegas taking me the long was when I specifically told him to take the local route shown by the app (which is actually ILLEGAL in Vegas) and 2. When the driver couldn't get to me because the roads were blocked off due to an event, I offered to meet him at a street past the block, he said no and instead STARTED THE TRIP ANYWAY and kept it running for 20 mins. So I'm sorry but I fail to see how me getting a refund from Uber in those situations is in any way class-less.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I'm sorry if I feel that a person that opens a door all day is entitled to no more than minimum wage. If he is tipped nothing, the employer has to make up the balance and make sure he gets minimum wage so I don't feel bad about that. I'm sorry, I'm sure he is a nice guy, but I just don't feel a pressing need to provide any more money for that. I don't really see why that would be so wrong. If we are talking about tips being charity, then just come out and say it. That is a completely different argument than what has been posted here previously.


Well, I apologize, because I wasn't about to re-read all these pages to pick out instances you would or already have requested a refund through Uber for select situations. I simply recalled that either you A) Requested a refund for a 1* rating or B) You would request a refund for a 1* rating, if you were to happen to receive one. I also believe, I recall, that you were able to get a refund since a driver asked for a tip. Not going to scan through all these pages, but I believe something of the 'likes' is in there. So, therefor, I guess I was calling you 'classless' for things you claim you would do (if you have not done them already). 
Since, you like to argue, I'm sure it is in one of these pages... But, with the so-called 'edit' button, I'm sure you can re-word your posts to fit your responses to prevent it from making you look like a hypocrite. Anyways, so you don't tip Uber, so be it. Some do, some don't.

My current argument is this.... There is no reason to "Hate On" those that wish to spread the desire from a driver's perspective that they wish their PAX would tip. They'll continue to do so, regardless of your stance or arguments. Simple responses, like "If you don't like it, find something else.." Should not apply. If you choose to eventually be the small minority that doesn't tip Uber in the very well future, so be it.. I'm sure you'll be rated accordingly & soon have to default to alternatives for transportation due to driver's avoiding you. Greed can be a two way street. Greed from cheap prices while there is greed from those wishing to be paid accordingly. -- Just don't be upset when your greed or disagreement with current cultural norms goes against your beliefs and make you out to be an ass of some sort to the regular(s) of this world. If your fine with that, so be it.

We all probably tip when it's not expected in some places while forget to tip where it may be a norm. We also probably pay for items of quality in some categories and go cheap somewhere else. Such is life, we all pay extra for what where we want quality.

If your looking for a cheap transportation service & no need to tip, don't expect the best.... Settle for average.... Be prepared for below average... 
Quality or Quantity..... In this world, quantity turns profits... Quality creates brand awareness.. Uber is well known, so now they've shifted to Quantity... Greed will eventually bite you in the ass --


----------



## Dar-K

Fuzzyelvis said:


> He also said he didn't want to "waste" his money tipping us. So that tells you what he thinks of us.
> 
> Other than the gambling (I don't gamble) I tip all your examples btw.


Well, I would imagine, tipping is only expected on table games.... And probably done if & only if you are winning pretty good. No reason to tip yourself off a table. Drinks may be free in good ol' Las Vegas, but we all know that tipping good may bring those waitresses around a little more frequently, right?
I'd imagine, if Uber saw repeat business (PAX matching up with Driver) quite frequently, than.... it'd be in their best interest to allow for a good relationship to build -- See, one could think they're being cheap and avoiding the tip here/there on their 1-time trip, but if they had to face that person time & time again, soon they'll think that a tip may be necessary or to start tipping that person a little bit.

I think I've never left tips for housekeeping from staying at a hotel. Only exceptions, have been, if I stayed there for an extended period of time, probaby made a slight mess, and the staff hooked us up with some extra stuff (i.e., water, etc.). However, I don't leave the place a mess, as I make it super easy for them to clean up (Beds made, all garbage is in the can, dirty towels in a semi-folded area in bathroom, etc.)


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> I think I've never left tips for housekeeping from staying at a hotel. Only exceptions, have been, if I stayed there for an extended period of time, probaby made a slight mess, and the staff hooked us up with some extra stuff (i.e., water, etc.). However, I don't leave the place a mess, as I make it super easy for them to clean up (Beds made, all garbage is in the can, dirty towels in a semi-folded area in bathroom, etc.)


No, I never have, and never would request a refund if rated a 1. The rating has nothing to do with the ride provided to me so there is no reason to do that. I also wouldn't waste my time going back and editing posts. I believe what I said was I would REPORT a driver for certain things not that I would request money back so perhaps you misunderstood those comments. As to your point above, you bust my balls about not tipping a door man but you don't tip a hotel maid? This right here is the issue with the tipping system in general. Might I ask why you didn't feel the need to tip the maid even if not making a big mess?

Also, my view on minimum wage shouldn't be interpreted as me not thinking they are human or anything like that. I just don't feel that the work that they do deserves higher compensation. It is an unskilled profession that requires no education or special training. That isn't meant as an insult. I'm sorry if you are interpreting facts as insults as that is not how I intended it.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> Once again..... brush up on some reading comprehension and it will all make sense. I can recommend some great learning tapes if you need. You know what, where do you drive? Hook me up with a ride and I will give it to you as a tip.
> 
> This is very simple:
> 
> 1. I used to tip all the time like society says you should.
> 
> 2. I learned the tipping system was BS and so I stopped tipping where I could do so without being crucified.
> 
> 3. I currently only really tip when:
> 
> a. I am with a group of people
> 
> b. I am by myself and the service person has gone above and beyond for me
> 
> c. Some other out of the ordinary circumstance


I didn't say anything that you didn't, did I?
You can mix and match all you want, whatever works for ya. We all have read the posts..... it is confirmed


----------



## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> No, I never have, and never would request a refund if rated a 1. The rating has nothing to do with the ride provided to me so there is no reason to do that. I also wouldn't waste my time going back and editing posts. I believe what I said was I would REPORT a driver for certain things not that I would request money back so perhaps you misunderstood those comments. As to your point above, you bust my balls about not tipping a door man but you don't tip a hotel maid? This right here is the issue with the tipping system in general. Might I ask why you didn't feel the need to tip the maid even if not making a big mess?
> 
> Also, my view on minimum wage shouldn't be interpreted as me not thinking they are human or anything like that. I just don't feel that the work that they do deserves higher compensation. It is an unskilled profession that requires no education or special training. That isn't meant as an insult. I'm sorry if you are interpreting facts as insults as that is not how I intended it.


... I was trying to think of examples of where a tip may be to some extent possibly expected or at least hoped for that I may not provide myself....
Why not tip? 1) I leave the room in a condition it was nearly checked-in as 2) These rooms cost anywhere from $50-150/night (And they're basically just providing a bed, show, bathroom). 3) I never thought or considered tipping until it was brought up once during a stay. Simply put, in my area, it isn't common knowledge for that. And, I was bringing this up to state that we all have the right to do as we place in terms of tipping. Do you tip your hotel maids??


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Dar-K said:


> ... I was trying to think of examples of where a tip may be to some extent possibly expected or at least hoped for that I may not provide myself....
> Why not tip? 1) I leave the room in a condition it was nearly checked-in as 2) These rooms cost anywhere from $50-150/night (And they're basically just providing a bed, show, bathroom). 3) I never thought or considered tipping until it was brought up once during a stay. Simply put, in my area, it isn't common knowledge for that. And, I was bringing this up to state that we all have the right to do as we place in terms of tipping. Do you tip your hotel maids??


No, I wasn't judging you. I don't tip hotel maids for the same reason I don't a doorman. I'm just surprised to hear someone here that isn't against tipping say they don't. Surprised me is all. Do you respect the maid any less because you don't leave a tip or do you just feel that the salary she makes is compensation enough for the work that she does? So to you, basic changing of the towels and sheets and perhaps vacuuming is just doing the job right?


----------



## Uberduberdoo

hanging in there said:


> Not trying to rub it in but...
> Last night picked up pax who said she normally takes Uber, but none were available on the app at the time. If I had given her that ride as an Uber it would have been $20 at the new reduced rates and a 5-star rating as a "tip" if I was lucky. Got $65.10 on the meter and a $50 tip, total on credit card $115.10.


How ironic, I to last night did a trip and it was mid 60's my end and the young woman gave me a $50 tip. What do ya think TNNTT, shock treatment, exorcism?


----------



## Dar-K

There's no need to tip said:


> No, I wasn't judging you. I don't tip hotel maids for the same reason I don't a doorman. I'm just surprised to hear someone here that isn't against tipping say they don't. Surprised me is all. Do you respect the maid any less because you don't leave a tip or do you just feel that the salary she makes is compensation enough for the work that she does? So to you, basic changing of the towels and sheets and perhaps vacuuming is just doing the job right?


Social norms, they probably are used to not expecting tips.
Tipping Uber (or not tipping Uber) is similar to like taking a Taxi. It would feel weird if I didn't tip a Taxi, so why would Uber be any different? Other ride-share platforms provide it, so it should be somewhat of a "norm" feeling. Going to a restaurant, they receive tips.. Not tipping them, that would feel odd.

Doormen, hotel maids, they have minimum wage (or better) to fall upon. I imagine, that they're not making the tipping wages (they could, would love to see examples). They likely also have medical, retirement, life insurance options.

The only reason for the outcry from drivers is that they are getting their rates cut, which hurts their pockets. The income was maybe once great, but now many experienced & quality drivers are probably leaving, exiting, and moving on to better things. Those who relied on that income, are upset. Tipping may be a potential stop-gap solution to retain those earnings. Yes, old rates, no tip = no problem. $$$ probably was profitable. Now days, tips are what may make it feel profitable if it covers the gas.
If they are more consistent, dependable, etc. on fulfilling guarantees, than who cares - they'll cover your losses... But I'm sure there are some who log-on and make nothing on occasion. Probably doesn't happen to servers, doormen, maid services, or even other taxi driver (unless they're IC'd as well).

But that's just my $0.02
An Uber driver could make some Bank one night while taking a loss the next w/ ease. If we have to focus on the best nights/times to drive, and remain offline in the mean time, that'll hurt for the PAX in the long-term. I'm sure they're already feeling it w/ the rate cuts. "ALSO" This thread existed prior to rate-cuts.. So, now it is even more relevant for it to occur. I don't deny tips... I don't request them either. I welcome them.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> How ironic, I to last night did a trip and it was mid 60's my end and the young woman gave me a $50 tip. What do ya think TNNTT, shock treatment, exorcism?


Completely... Did you pleasure her in the back seat? Damn.... You know what, I am more than happy letting her subsidize all the tips I don't give.


----------



## wethepeople

maxista said:


> This is the last thing I have to say to you. I reject your assumptions. I reject your reasoning. I reject the narrative you prescribe to and are an apologist for. I reject it with every fiber in my being. You are missing the points I am making. Human beings are not "customers", we are not limited to and by socioeconomic constructs that pre-define how we ought to act and not act. I reject your reasoning on moral and spiritual grounds. I could very well use your own words against you, but I will leave you with this simple last phrase. Grow.


I already ignore this troll and the other "dogtroll" as well.. not my level those folks and they seem to have nothing else to do with their boring lives.. Not worth the oil to throw in their flames.

Why wouldn't this forum have some sort of Uber rating?
I give them both 1Star for their posts and once they hit 4.6 they get a warning and below 4.5 they get deactivated..
lol.. that would be the greatest forum idea I say


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> Completely... Did you pleasure her in the back seat? Damn.


Above and beyond counselor, about and beyond


----------



## maxista

Agent99 said:


> Maybe he just enjoys having dialogue over the subject. Same reason I am here.


What a sad, sad, sad thread. You people derive joy from arguing for poverty? You like defending oppression? You're some sick sick people. Disgusting.


----------



## maxista

wethepeople said:


> I already ignore this troll and the other "dogtroll" as well.. not my level those folks and they seem to have nothing else to do with their boring lives.. Not worth the oil to throw in their flames.
> 
> Why wouldn't this forum have some sort of Uber rating?
> I give them both 1Star for their posts and once they hit 4.6 they get a warning and below 4.5 they get deactivated..
> lol.. that would be the greatest forum idea I say


****ing brilliant.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> What a sad, sad, sad thread. You people derive joy from arguing for poverty? You like defending oppression? You're some sick sick people. Disgusting.


As has already been mentioned, have you done an analysis into who is making all of your products around the world and what those workers are compensated? I'm sure you ONLY buy products from companies that pay their workers a decent wage and NEVER benefit from a cheaper product because of exploited workers right?


----------



## maxista

There's no need to tip said:


> As has already been mentioned, have you done an analysis into who is making all of your products around the world and what those workers are compensated? I'm sure you ONLY buy products from companies that pay their workers a decent wage and NEVER benefit from a cheaper product because of exploited workers right?


Your scathing sarcasm aside, I do my best as a consumer. Unfortunately too few of us vote with our dollars that way. There are those of us, however, who care and who make as educated a decision as we can when consuming.

What does that have to do with you being a selfish cheapskate by the way? You think you're so clever, but you're not. You're sitting on your computer arguing for argument's sake with a bunch of guys you consider your servants. The fact that it's impossible to know where every component of every one of our products comes from does not absolve us from having a say and a responsibility as consumers. What kind of a lawyer are you not to be able to tell the difference and to make such grand and sweeping generalizations? You're arguing for the bad guys, you realize that right? What are you doing?


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

excel2345 said:


> I wish that uber would either change the agreement or their language on their app for customers.
> In the agreement under payment it says *tip not included* while in their communication with riders it's
> *tip is not required *
> Of course a tip is not required, according to Websters it is
> "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service;'"
> with their language it infers that any tip is included in the fare.


Uber should make tips defaulted to 15% for Select and XL (and all the other higher options). Because, by not selecting X, they are showing they don't mind paying more for better service. For those who order XL because of having 5 pax (rather than for comfort, which many do), they can always change the default to whatever level of tips they want, including zero. Since any rider can change the default setting on tips anytime, this shouldn't be a problem at all for the rider. Just like, hardly anyone complains about the SRF.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

EcoboostMKS said:


> Don't like the tip culture? Move to Europe. In America, we tip. The waitress that makes $4/hour needs tips to survive. The person that drives for $1/mile needs tips to survive.
> 
> Rationalize your cheapness however you want, but that's all your doing. Tipping people in the service industry is as American as apple pie.
> 
> Too cheap to tip? Don't use the service and do it yourself.


Tipping should be mandatory. Automatically included in the bill. Many establishments are already doing that. It should be mandated by law, or by their respective trade groups, for example, restaurants groups, etc. Why?

Because when it is not mandated and included in the bill, people who don't tip are getting away with it, and we are subsidizing their consumption!

For example, a waitress at a restaurant thinks, okay, some of my diners tip well, some less so, and yet some none at all. But overall, I am okay with my daily take in tips in total. That's why I am still working there.

Look, essentially, the best tippers are subsidizing the other two groups of patrons! I want to emotionally say "It's not fair!" but I prefer to rationally emphasize that "It's not a good system". Very effectively, the current, largely non-mandatory tipping system financially punishes generous tippers and financially rewards non-tippers.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Tipping should be mandatory. Automatically included in the bill. Many establishments are already doing that. It should be mandated by law, or by their respective trade groups, for example, restaurants groups, etc. Why?
> 
> Because when it is not mandated and included in the bill, people who don't tip are getting away with it, and we are subsidizing their consumption!
> 
> For example, a waitress at a restaurant thinks, okay, some of my diners tip well, some less so, and yet some none at all. But overall, I am okay with my daily take in tips in total. That's why I am still working there.
> 
> Look, essentially, the best tippers are subsidizing the other two groups of patrons! I want to emotionally say "It's not fair!" but I prefer to rationally emphasize that "It's not a good system". Very effectively, the current, largely non-mandatory tipping system financially punishes generous tippers and financially rewards non-tippers.


Heads up, stay tuned


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> Completely... Did you pleasure her in the back seat? Damn.... You know what, I am more than happy letting her subsidize all the tips I don't give.


I think you've just confirmed AGAIN how you are simply cheap.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Agent99 said:


> I can tolerate the rate cut carnage going on now in 80 cities because my city has escaped another rate drop (so far) and because I only do it part time. Since Uber doesn't incentivize or compensate me in any way with reasonable regular rates, in-app tipping, or other methods, for going the extra mile or making any sacrifice, I am relentless in:
> 
> - driving mostly surge fares,
> - declining rides from people with low ratings (below 4.7),
> - declining rides from people over 6 minutes away,
> - canceling rides if the person is not in the car within two minutes,
> - canceling ride requests that are from grocery stores,
> - canceling rides that are from fast food restaurants,
> - canceling rides ordered from establishments that sell marijuana (legal here),
> - driving away and canceling if I determine that the passenger is a smoker,
> - driving away and canceling if the passenger is drunk,
> - cancelling rides instead of looking for riders who put pin in the wrong place,
> - not allowing food to be eaten in the car,
> - declining ride requests from bus zones and "no stopping allowed" areas,
> - driving for Lyft instead.
> 
> (I am curious what other items other drivers would add to or change about the above list.)
> As you can see, I now take my "do the best I can possibly do" attitude and often refocus it on self preservation of my income, rating, car, and time, rather than on customer service.
> 
> Having first done all the above things to protect myself, if you do manage to get past all the above hurdles you'll still find I'm a quality driver with a helpful and friendly attitude. Likewise, if you got past all those hurdles you are probably a pleasant passenger and if so you won't need to bribe me with a tip just for me to put up with you.


I agree that you have the right to change your behavior to not do things you feel are above the call of duty. I assumed there was some type of documentation or "handbook" from Uber as to what a driver is allowed or not allowed to do, is that true? If you violate that, won't you be reprimanded by Uber? Are some of the above against their "rules?" I don't understand why you would cancel some of the things on your list. What is wrong with picking people up from the grocery, fast food restaurants, or places that sell pot? The rest are self explanatory.



ClevelandUberRider said:


> Look, essentially, the best tippers are subsidizing the other two groups of patrons! I want to emotionally say "It's not fair!" but I prefer to rationally emphasize that "It's not a good system". Very effectively, the current, largely non-mandatory tipping system financially punishes generous tippers and financially rewards non-tippers.


It actually IS mandated by law but no one cares to educate people about that. Tippers are punishing themselves. If you don't tip workers that are supposed to report tip income to the IRS, the employer MUST legally make up the difference. So if you DON'T tip, the worker is still supposed to be paid minimum wage, just not out of your pocket, out of their employer's. Now if you don't believe that minimum wage is enough for those positions, that is a different argument.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think you've just confirmed AGAIN how you are simply cheap.


I prefer intelligent, logical, and economical but po-tat-os, po-tot-os.


----------



## Agent99

There's no need to tip said:


> I don't understand why you would cancel some of the things on your list. What is wrong with picking people up from the grocery, fast food restaurants, or places that sell pot? The rest are self explanatory.


Grocery store pickups

If I pick up somebody at a grocery store, they probably will have groceries and will likely expect help putting the groceries into the trunk, and taking them out of the trunk. The groceries may leak, break, or spill in the trunk (or, worse yet, in the cabin) and if so that's a problem I will have to fight over with them. It's my fault their carton of eggs spilled on the seat because I'm the one who slammed on the brakes during the ride. Uber says we should wait until the passenger is in the car before starting the trip. Unless we drivers ignore that guideline, we are not paid for the time it takes to load the trunk prior to the passenger getting into the car. Similarly, we are supposed to end the ride when the passenger gets out of the car, not after we get their ten bags of groceries out of the trunk and carry them in two trips up to the passenger's third floor apartment. Finally, grocery runs are typically very short rides to ones local residence. By definition, they are not going to the airport or to their far away branch office. For all the above reasons and risks, I try to avoid grocery store pickups. They are not just "drive from point A to B" situations.

Fast Food Restaurants

Fast food restaurant pick ups are typically local runs, quite possibly not much more than the minimum fare. People bring their bags full of hamburgers, french fries and fried chicken and think nothing of putting that food right onto the car seat where the grease can go through the bag and stain the seat. Even if they walk into the car without food, their hands could still be greasy, leaving fingerprints on doors, windows, and seats.

If food is brought into the car, invariably one of the passengers will want to eat the food or drink the drink so that means the risk of spilling french fries, catsup, or Coca Cola on the seats or on the floor. Often the passengers will give a bad rating to the driver for being told they can't eat any of the food they just bought. Sometimes the passenger will say he will not eat in the car and then goes ahead and does so when the driver is not looking. It is very hard for the driver to be a food policeman when the job is supposed to be to focus on the road ahead.

Finally, the car will smell like fast food after the passengers leave. There may not be time to aerate the car before the next set of passengers get into the car. The new passengers may object to the smell and hold the driver responsible for the smell in the car, or the food litter on the floor. Once again, there is rating risk.

Pot sales establishments

Often the people you pick up at pot sales establishments smell like marijuana before they did their purchases or as the result of their purchases. Either way, the driver may find the smell objectionable in the car. A car is a very small self contained area, and reeking passengers quickly permeate the entire car. Even if the driver doesn't care, the next passengers may find the smell objectionable and hold the driver responsible. In the worst case, the next passengers may think the driver was smoking marijuana in his car. Very similar to the third hand smoke issues posed by regular smokers.

I really don't want to be this way, but I am working within a system that discounts any "extra" customer service provided and makes it invisible. I am paid the same, or less, for high customer service/high maintenance passengers as I am for low maintenance passengers.


----------



## sicky

I like picking up at dispensaries. I love the smell of marijuana and sometimes I get tipped in weed. To explain the smell, I usually tell the next pickup that the last guy came out of the dispensary.


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## ClevelandUberRider

Agent99 said:


> Grocery store pickups
> 
> If I pick up somebody at a grocery store, they probably will have groceries and will likely expect help putting the groceries into the trunk, and taking them out of the trunk. The groceries may leak, break, or spill in the trunk (or, worse yet, in the cabin) and if so that's a problem I will have to fight over with them. It's my fault their carton of eggs spilled on the seat because I'm the one who slammed on the brakes during the ride. Uber says we should wait until the passenger is in the car before starting the trip. Unless we drivers ignore that guideline, we are not paid for the time it takes to load the trunk prior to the passenger getting into the car. Similarly, we are supposed to end the ride when the passenger gets out of the car, not after we get their ten bags of groceries out of the trunk and carry them in two trips up to the passenger's third floor apartment. Finally, grocery runs are typically very short rides to ones local residence. By definition, they are not going to the airport or to their far away branch office. For all the above reasons and risks, I try to avoid grocery store pickups. They are not just "drive from point A to B" situations.
> 
> Fast Food Restaurants
> 
> Fast food restaurant pick ups are typically local runs, quite possibly not much more than the minimum fare. People bring their bags full of hamburgers, french fries and fried chicken and think nothing of putting that food right onto the car seat where the grease can go through the bag and stain the seat. Even if they walk into the car without food, their hands could still be greasy, leaving fingerprints on doors, windows, and seats.
> 
> If food is brought into the car, invariably one of the passengers will want to eat the food or drink the drink so that means the risk of spilling french fries, catsup, or Coca Cola on the seats or on the floor. Often the passengers will give a bad rating to the driver for being told they can't eat any of the food they just bought. Sometimes the passenger will say he will not eat in the car and then goes ahead and does so when the driver is not looking. It is very hard for the driver to be a food policeman when the job is supposed to be to focus on the road ahead.
> 
> Finally, the car will smell like fast food after the passengers leave. There may not be time to aerate the car before the next set of passengers get into the car. The new passengers may object to the smell and hold the driver responsible for the smell in the car. Once again, there is rating risk.
> 
> Pot sales establishments
> 
> Often the people you pick up at pot sales establishments smell like marijuana before they did their purchases or as the result of their purchases. Either way, the driver may find the smell objectionable in the car. A car is a very small self contained area, and reeking passengers quickly permeate the entire car. Even if the driver doesn't care, the next passengers may find the smell objectionable and hold the driver responsible. Very similar to the third hand smoke issues posed by regular smokers.


Very informative for wannabe drivers. Thank you.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

If anybody needs more guidance it is those on this thread that post about tip not needed, tip included, or tip not necessary, or why should I because that's how the platform was initially set up, if you don't like it don't do it etc.. The simple fact *they know* that it isn't included in the fare and *they know *drivers are making very little money yet still dont open their wallet for one stinking dollar or two. Yeah, one dollar or two, just enough to say "I get it", not for reasons lending to above and beyond but just *because I know*. This shouldn't be such a big deal when they actually know what the circumstances are. For those who don't know the circumstances, I understand those points of view to be valid, but once they learn the facts, in most cases they will tip. In this particular situation, for those who do know and still hold the party line to self benifit from others loss is a fine example of heartless behavior. 
If you ride in an uber, and *you know,* give a dollar or two, not 15 or 20% but just a buck or two. You just may find it self rewarding rather than self indulging. I commend those few here that are against tipping but still do so because if for no other reason, they *know the deal. *
That's my 2 cents, and I'm uberduberdone.


----------



## galileo5

What baffles me is that passengers complain all the time about how terrible, rude, dirty taxis are, and vow never to ride them again -- but tip them, yet they praise how great, fast, clean Uber cars are, but don't tip. 

So backwards, so self-entitled, so stupid.


----------



## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here

Agent99 said:


> I can tolerate the rate cut carnage going on now in 80 cities because my city has escaped another rate drop (so far) and because I only do it part time. Since Uber doesn't incentivize or compensate me in any way with reasonable regular rates, in-app tipping, or other methods, for going the extra mile or making any sacrifice, I am relentless in:
> 
> - driving mostly surge fares,
> - declining rides from people with low ratings (below 4.7),
> - declining rides from people over 6 minutes away,
> - canceling rides if the person is not in the car within two minutes,
> - canceling ride requests that are from grocery stores,
> - canceling rides that are from fast food restaurants,
> - canceling rides ordered from establishments that sell marijuana (legal here),
> - driving away and canceling if I determine that the passenger is a smoker,
> - driving away and canceling if the passenger is drunk,
> - cancelling rides instead of looking for riders who put pin in the wrong place,
> - not allowing food to be eaten in the car,
> - declining ride requests from bus zones and "no stopping allowed" areas,
> - driving for Lyft instead.
> 
> (I am curious what other items other drivers would add to or change about the above list.)
> As you can see, I now take my "do the best I can possibly do" attitude and often refocus it on self preservation of my income, rating, car, and time, rather than on customer service.
> 
> Having first done all the above things to protect myself, if you do manage to get past all the above hurdles you'll still find I'm a quality driver with a helpful and friendly attitude. Likewise, if you got past all those hurdles you are probably a pleasant passenger and if so you won't need to bribe me with a tip just for me to put up with you.





maxista said:


> Whoever wrote that we "depend on good reviews" is so out of it. Awesome reply btw. Well done.


Hey Agent 99
Great Tips
Join the conversation here:
https://uberpeople.net/threads/how-do-you-bump-up-the-fare.57504/#post-779126

Best, 
CD


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> I see you haven't responded to it with a valid counter argument though... I am not deflecting anything. I am being very up front with my position. I HATE tip culture. I think it has become seriously out of control in this country. I tip where I am expected to by society because I have no other choice in the matter. It isn't a cheapness thing. If my meal was $3 more expensive I would much rather that than the mess of a system we have now where I never know who gets a tip and who doesn't and the tip isn't reflected with good service it is just expected anyway. Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear yet all you guys decided to sign up anyway and then have sour grapes about it and take it out on the customer. If I wanted to participate in a tipping transportation service I would use Lyft or take a regular cab. I choose to use Uber because I like how it is run. I REFUSE to feel bad about using a service how it was originally intended. I'm sorry if it doesn't mesh with the rest of the ridiculous tip culture in this country but my answer to that is, don't drive for them then if you don't like the terms they offer.


Lord S:

Haven't you figured out NNTT's and Cold rider's schtick, yet?

They are shills sent by Travis K. to taunt you and make you feel even more miserable for being in circumstances so grim that the best option you see is working for an evil entity like Uber, driving around entitled assholes like them, all while losing money. That, and people like them revel in their own cheapness, like pigs revel in rolling in shit.

Don't roll in their shit with them. These buffoons will eventually tire of being ignored and will go find some kittens to torture, or frogs to blow up with M80s, or some similar "fun." They are miserable and want you to be miserable, too.

YMMV and all that.


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> Lord S:
> 
> Haven't you figured out NNTT's and Cold rider's schtick, yet?
> 
> They are shills sent by Travis K. to taunt you and make you feel even more miserable for being in circumstances so grim that the best option you see is working for an evil entity like Uber, driving around entitled assholes like them, all while losing money. That, and people like them revel in their own cheapness, like pigs revel in rolling in shit.
> 
> Don't roll in their shit with them. These buffoons will eventually tire of being ignored and will go find some kittens to torture, or frogs to blow up with M80s, or some similar "fun." They are miserable and want you to be miserable, too.
> 
> YMMV and all that.


hahahahahahaha so true, so brilliantly said, those people are pigs, disgusting pigs.


----------



## ColdRider

Greguzzi said:


> Lord S:
> 
> Haven't you figured out NNTT's and Cold rider's schtick, yet?
> 
> They are shills sent by Travis K. to taunt you and make you feel even more miserable for being in circumstances so grim that the best option you see is working for an evil entity like Uber, driving around entitled assholes like them, all while losing money. That, and people like them revel in their own cheapness, like pigs revel in rolling in shit.
> 
> Don't roll in their shit with them. These buffoons will eventually tire of being ignored and will go find some kittens to torture, or frogs to blow up with M80s, or some similar "fun." They are miserable and want you to be miserable, too.
> 
> YMMV and all that.





maxista said:


> hahahahahahaha so true, so brilliantly said, those people are pigs, disgusting pigs.


Resorting to insults as expected...

Carry on.


----------



## Greguzzi

Say Hi! to Travis for us.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ColdRider said:


> Resorting to insults as expected...
> 
> Carry on.


Classic counter when you don't have a valid point to put forward. I just got en email from Uber that they just reduced Uber rates in New York by 15%. Can't wait for my airport trip next month! Thanks for the savings Uber.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> I just got en email from Uber that they just reduced Uber rates in New York by 15%. Can't wait for my airport trip next month! Thanks for the savings Uber.


Ill refer to a prior post of mine. 


Uberduberdoo said:


> for those who do know and still hold the party line to self benefit from others loss is a fine example of heartless behavior.





Uberduberdoo said:


> If you ride in an uber, and *you know,* give a dollar or two, not 15 or 20% but just a buck or two. You just may find it self rewarding rather than self indulging.





There's no need to tip said:


> Classic counter when you don't have a valid point to put forward.


Hmmm, Do I sense dissension among the non tippers....


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Uberduberdoo said:


> Ill refer to a prior post of mine.
> 
> Hmmm, Do I sense dissension among the non tippers....


Hahahaha I'm obviously not being serious, just being a dick considering how much dickishness I have received here. I don't take PLEASURE in the situation but I still don't feel responsible for others' life choices either. Like I said, everyone here are big boys and girls who can choose for themself what they want to do. Drive for Uber or don't, that decision is yours. My decision is to keep using whichever service I feel best serves MY needs. If it remains Uber, so be it. If it becomes Lyft or some other service, I am just as happy to jump ship.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> I don't take PLEASURE in the situation





There's no need to tip said:


> reduced Uber rates in New York by 15%. Can't wait for my airport trip next month! Thanks for the savings Uber.


Its written in Black and White dude, Black and White.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> I still don't feel responsible for others' life choices either


Ill still put a tourniquet on your severed arm even though you choose to stick it in a meat grinder. I can only hope that when i do something stupid by choice, you wont be around to not help me out..........Its not about you feeling responsible, its about kindness, and doing the right thing for your fellow man. Apparently Uber is doing the right thing for you, why cant you follow that with the same.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Greguzzi said:


> Say Hi! to Travis for us.


From another thread on NPR, it is highly likely that Greguzzi is like the majority of Ohio's (even the nation's) voters (Independent). He is an independent, a non-partisan. He does not like the far left, and he doesn't like the far right either. And, he bashes big corporate guys, even the trail-blazing super entrepreneurialism like Travis. That is why the political spectrum is getting harder and harder to define and target, it is all over the place. Political consultant class finds more and more need to "micro-target". For example, they will send Greguzzi different messages than what they send another Travis-basher who is pro-Bernie Sanders and pro-gun control (Greguzzi shared in another thread that he is very strongly pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment rights).


----------



## Greguzzi

Eff Travis for preying on and fostering human misery and importing the ethos of sweat-hop servitude to North America.

And eff Uber passengers for gleefully and knowingly taking advantage of same.

And, yes, eff Uber drivers who enable this whole addictive train wreck by listening to Travis's lies and buying or leasing a vehicle based on the assurances that they will "make life-changing money."


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> Eff Travis for preying on and fostering human misery and importing the ethos of sweat-hop servitude to North America.
> 
> And eff Uber passengers for gleefully and knowingly taking advantage of same.
> 
> And, yes, eff Uber drivers who enable this whole addictive train wreck by listening to Travis's lies and buying or leasing a vehicle based on the assurances that they will "make life-changing money."


Agreed. We all have a part in this.


----------



## maxista

ColdRider said:


> Resorting to insults as expected...
> 
> Carry on.


In today's America, calling people what they are, whether it be fat, stupid, ignorant or cheap, is just too "insensitive" and politically incorrect. Anytime any kind obvious, but difficult truth is spoken, people get offended because we've created a society of lazy, obedient and cowardly pushovers incapable of being whole people. These minions only care about themselves, their image, and their wallets. They are incapable of being truly curious about or understanding of each other, and could care less about the well being of society as a whole. These "I'm offended", "it's not my problem" entitled minions are generally incapable of critical thought and much less being criticized. They represent everything that's wrong with the world. They are the reason why people starve, why wars continue to exist, and why corrupt politicians create our laws and manipulate our lives. Oh you're offended bro? Go f*ck yourself.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> In today's America, calling people what they are, whether it be fat, stupid, ignorant or cheap, is just too "insensitive" and politically incorrect. Anytime any kind obvious, but difficult truth is spoken, people get offended because we've created a society of lazy, obedient and cowardly pushovers incapable of being whole people. These minions only care about themselves, their image, and their wallets. They are incapable of being truly curious about or understanding of each other, and could care less about the well being of society as a whole. These "I'm offended", "it's not my problem" entitled minions are generally incapable of critical thought and much less being criticized. They represent everything that's wrong with the world. They are the reason why people starve, why wars continue to exist, and why corrupt politicians create our laws and manipulate our lives. Oh you're offended bro? Go f*ck yourself.


I love how you are taking our responses as being offended. If you haven't been able to tell by now that we really don't care in the least what you call us or what you think you know about how we feel about ourselves, I feel really sorry for you. He was not commenting because he was offended but rather to mock your lack of an intelligent response. Your inability to even understand that proves his point.

I do agree with you though about the thin skin of many people these days.


----------



## maxista

There's no need to tip said:


> I love how you are taking our responses as being offended. If you haven't been able to tell by now that we really don't care in the least what you call us or what you think you know about how we feel about ourselves, I feel really sorry for you. He was not commenting because he was offended but rather to mock your lack of an intelligent response. Your inability to even understand that proves his point.
> 
> I do agree with you though about the thin skin of many people these days.


Cool story... why are you then? Why did you respond?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

maxista said:


> Cool story... why are you then? Why did you respond?


Because it is fun seeing what idiotic thing you are going to say next and because I am currently bored.


----------



## maxista

There's no need to tip said:


> Because it is fun seeing what idiotic thing you are going to say next and because I am currently bored.


Wow, so this is entertainment for you? And you feel sorry for me? I don't have time to be bored, I actually have legitimate points to make. Here's another legitimate point, you just admitted to being a troll. Bye cheap troll!


----------



## maxista

There's no need to tip said:


> Because it is fun seeing what idiotic thing you are going to say next and because I am currently bored.


If you really felt sorry for us, why wouldn't you just leave a tip?! Hahaha. What an idiot.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

maxista said:


> In today's America, calling people what they are, whether it be fat, stupid, ignorant or cheap, is just too "insensitive" and politically incorrect. Anytime any kind obvious, but difficult truth is spoken, people get offended because we've created a society of lazy, obedient and cowardly pushovers incapable of being whole people. These minions only care about themselves, their image, and their wallets. They are incapable of being truly curious about or understanding of each other, and could care less about the well being of society as a whole. These "I'm offended", "it's not my problem" entitled minions are generally incapable of critical thought and much less being criticized. They represent everything that's wrong with the world. They are the reason why people starve, why wars continue to exist, and why corrupt politicians create our laws and manipulate our lives. Oh you're offended bro? Go f*ck yourself.


Welcome to the New Era, where stupidity is encouraged, conformity rewarded, rudeness expected, critical thinking shunned.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> Because it is fun seeing what idiotic thing you are going to say next and because I am currently bored.


I tried to tell y'all. He's here-probably at the behest of Travis-to taunt you and feed on your tears. You are just as disposable to this SJW attorney as the toilet paper he wiped his ass on this morning, after sending another Clinton to the White House.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> I tried to tell y'all. He's here-probably at the behest of Travis-to taunt you and feed on your tears. You are just as disposable to this SJW attorney as the toilet paper he wiped his ass on this morning, after sending another Clinton to the White House.


1. Tears aren't tasty.
2. I don't use TP. I switched to flushable wipes long ago. Would never go back to that barbaric paper.
3. I DESPISE Clinton.


----------



## Greguzzi

I don't believe anything you say at this point.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> I don't believe anything you say at this point.


You are just trying to upset me so you can drink my tears aren't you????


----------



## ColdRider

maxista said:


> In today's America, calling people what they are, whether it be fat, stupid, ignorant or cheap, is just too "insensitive" and politically incorrect. Anytime any kind obvious, but difficult truth is spoken, people get offended because we've created a society of lazy, obedient and cowardly pushovers incapable of being whole people. These minions only care about themselves, their image, and their wallets. They are incapable of being truly curious about or understanding of each other, and could care less about the well being of society as a whole. These "I'm offended", "it's not my problem" entitled minions are generally incapable of critical thought and much less being criticized. They represent everything that's wrong with the world. They are the reason why people starve, why wars continue to exist, and why corrupt politicians create our laws and manipulate our lives. Oh you're offended bro? Go f*ck yourself.


The irony...


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> You are just trying to upset me so you can drink my tears aren't you????


You got me there, Travis.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Greguzzi said:


> You got me there, Travis.


LOL.


----------



## promdog

There's no need to tip said:


> 2. I don't use TP. I switched to flushable wipes long ago. Would never go back to that barbaric paper.


Toilet paper is flushable. "Flushable Wipes" are not flushable.

*Why Flushable Wipes Aren't Flushable*





If you were truly interested in becoming non-barbaric with your sanitation practices, you would consider investing in a bidet and possibly, maybe, a squatty potty.

*Bio Bidet BB-250*





*This Unicorn Changed the Way I Poop - #SquattyPotty*


----------



## promdog

ColdRider said:


> The irony...


I think the word you are looking for is "Hypocrisy". Of which, I think their hypocrisy eludes even themselves....


----------



## There’s no need to tip

promdog said:


> Toilet paper is flushable. "Flushable Wipes" are not flushable.
> 
> *Why Flushable Wipes Aren't Flushable*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you were truly interested in becoming non-barbaric with your sanitation practices, you would consider investing in a bidet and possibly, maybe, a squatty potty.
> 
> *Bio Bidet BB-250*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *This Unicorn Changed the Way I Poop - #SquattyPotty*


Yeah, I debated getting a bidet with heated toilet seat put in. Haven't gotten around to it yet. As for the wipes, I wonder why they haven't been made illegal or somehow regulated if they do so much damage to the septic system.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

There's no need to tip said:


> Yeah, I debated getting a bidet with heated toilet seat put in. Haven't gotten around to it yet. As for the wipes, I wonder why they haven't been made illegal or somehow regulated if they do so much damage to the septic system.


Some laws are not pro-environment enough. Some laws are overly pro-environment. Welcome to the real world. It is also the duty of environmentally conscious consumers and citizens to do whatever they can to protect the environment, even if the law hasn't caught up with the environmental abuse yet. Reduce. Reuse. Recycle. Develop these into our daily life habits as much as possible. Once formed, habits are hard to break.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> Yeah, I debated getting a bidet with heated toilet seat put in. Haven't gotten around to it yet. As for the wipes, I wonder why they haven't been made illegal or somehow regulated if they do so much damage to the septic system.


Please, if you do get the dou che bowl, just change your name to "there's no need to wipe" . This way we all know you have it and can be spared the details that might follow.


----------



## Greguzzi

Uberduberdoo said:


> Please, if you do get the dou che bowl, just change your name to "there's no need to wipe" . This way we all know you have it and can be spared the details that might follow.










"There's no need to wipe."


----------



## uberdriverfornow

I wonder how much "there's no need to tip" gets paid by Uber to post here. He works hard at his job, he must get paid a good salary.


----------



## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here

Greguzzi said:


> Lord S:
> 
> Haven't you figured out NNTT's and Cold rider's schtick, yet?
> 
> They are shills sent by Travis K. to taunt you and make you feel even more miserable for being in circumstances so grim that the best option you see is working for an evil entity like Uber, driving around entitled assholes like them, all while losing money. That, and people like them revel in their own cheapness, like pigs revel in rolling in shit.
> 
> Don't roll in their shit with them. These buffoons will eventually tire of being ignored and will go find some kittens to torture, or frogs to blow up with M80s, or some similar "fun." They are miserable and want you to be miserable, too.
> 
> YMMV and all that.


Thanks to your comment (above),
I just put both those pesty folk on ignore. 
This thread is so much cleaner and useful now.

Thx! (seriously)


----------



## Greguzzi

Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here said:


> Thanks to your comment (above),
> I just put both those pesty folk on ignore.
> This thread is so much cleaner and useful now.
> 
> Thx! (seriously)


Wise move, my friend.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

uberdriverfornow said:


> I wonder how much "there's no need to tip" gets paid by Uber to post here. He works hard at his job, he must get paid a good salary.


I never thought to ask them for payment.... Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## promdog

There's no need to tip said:


> Yeah, I debated getting a bidet with heated toilet seat put in. Haven't gotten around to it yet. As for the wipes, I wonder why they haven't been made illegal or somehow regulated if they do so much damage to the septic system.


Name ONE thing that is on the books as "illegal" to put down your toilet. Just one... Only One.... lol


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> Please, if you do get the dou che bowl, just change your name to "there's no need to wipe" . This way we all know you have it and can be spared the details that might follow.


.... says the guy named, "UberDuberDooDoo". lol


----------



## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> Name ONE thing that is on the books as "illegal" to put down your toilet. Just one... Only One.... lol


1. Motor oil
2.
3.
1000.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

promdog said:


> Name ONE thing that is on the books as "illegal" to put down your toilet. Just one... Only One.... lol


Cocaine, when drug enforcement agents are busting in.


----------



## Agent99

Hey TNNTT,

Just found this article on the tipping subject.

http://gothamist.com/2016/02/03/tip_uber_etiquette.php


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Agent99 said:


> Hey TNNTT,
> 
> Just found this article on the tipping subject.
> 
> http://gothamist.com/2016/02/03/tip_uber_etiquette.php


I understand the argument, I really do, I just don't agree with it. I do agree with this poster's response:

"They only want it [the drivers] because they think it'll be easier to force a tipping structure slip in than it would be to force uber to pay them a real wage/compensation. F uck that. I want the price to be the price, I want it to be transparent, I will expect decent-enough service (if I want white-glove I will rent a limo). And then I will make an informed decision as to whether the ride is worth it to me."

As I have previously posted here, I loved Uber from the start. I loved I didn't have to tip and I paid whatever the damn thing said. As you should know by now, I am not a fussy rider. All I need is point A to point B without being killed or long hauled so there are almost no situations in which I would feel a tip would be required from my use of the service. Everyone was ok with this system, as you all agree, when rates were higher. Now that they are continuously dropping, there is a real push to have tips make up the difference which is where the above poster's response comes in. I really don't feel it is my job to fight the drivers' battles. I like Uber how it is. If the drivers want to make a change, DO IT! I don't want Uber to become like every other tip job in this country. As I have stated, I am sick of it. If the passengers who hate tip culture give in, WE will be the cause of the problem that we all hate. Now before the flamers show up, I am not opposed to a tip option IN THEORY, but we all know what it will REALLY be. It will just become something that is EXPECTED for every trip as a wage replacement, exactly what the drivers want. If Uber could truly add a tip option, and it would really JUST be for above and beyond service, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it. However, by even adding the option, we all know what it will become.


----------



## Greguzzi

Uber appeals to the Mr. Pinks of this world, there can be no doubt of that.


----------



## Agent99

Greguzzi said:


> Uber appeals to the Mr. Pinks of this world, there can be no doubt of that.


Somebody explain, who was/is Mr. Pink?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Agent99 said:


> Somebody explain, who was/is Mr. Pink?


It is a scene from a movie where a character intelligently and succinctly explains his position against tipping and gets flamed for it by the people he is with showing that tipping has nothing to do with exceptional service of any kind and is just a wage replacement. People like to point this scene out in FAVOR of their argument when it does the exact opposite.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> It is a scene from a movie where a character intelligently and succinctly explains his position against tipping and gets flamed for it by the people he is with showing that tipping has nothing to do with exceptional service of any kind and is just a wage replacement. People like to point this scene out in FAVOR of their argument when it does the exact opposite.


Actually it points out that even psychopathic homicidal maniacs tip for the most part.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

promdog said:


> Name ONE thing that is on the books as "illegal" to put down your toilet. Just one... Only One.... lol


babies


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Actually it points out that even psychopathic homicidal maniacs tip for the most part.


Just shows you how strong the brainwashing is....


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> It is a scene from a movie where a character intelligently and succinctly explains his position against tipping and gets flamed for it by the people he is with showing that tipping has nothing to do with exceptional service of any kind and is just a wage replacement. People like to point this scene out in FAVOR of their argument when it does the exact opposite.


LOL. I guess this proves that we all see what we want to see.


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> 1. Motor oil
> 2.
> 3.
> 1000.





Fuzzyelvis said:


> babies





ClevelandUberRider said:


> Cocaine, when drug enforcement agents are busting in.


Please quote your sources on this one. I can't wait.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> LOL. I guess this proves that we all see what we want to see.


And once again, no counterpoint. So taking into account that if he didn't tip she would still get paid minimum wage, what is the counterpoint? If you believe minimum wage should be higher, I won't fault you for that.


----------



## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> Please quote your sources on this one. I can't wait.


please dump a gallon of motor oil down your toilet, call the police and tell them what you've done, then you let me know. I'll gladly use you as a source.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> And once again, no counterpoint. So taking into account that if he didn't tip she would still get paid minimum wage, what is the counterpoint? If you believe minimum wage should be higher, I won't fault you for that.


You say that like it makes your argument. It does not. I never argued about the minimum wage. If you are an attorney, you should ask the school that trained you for your money back.

I argued that what I see in that clip is a cheapskate trying to justify his cheapness and embarrassing himself in the process. You see something else. That was the point I was making: We both see what we want to see.

But let's take it beyond what the clip shows. Sure, Mr. Pink was just arguing with his peers to justify his cheapness, but you take his embarrassing shit-show to a new level, because you are not doing it among a group of your peers. Look where you go to make the argument for your cheapness: on a forum for Uber drivers. If Mr. Pink had stood there and tried to justify his cheapness to a bunch of waitresses, he would have looked like even more of an asshole than he already did. You are that level of asshole, coming here to try to justify your cheapness to the very people who suffer as a result of it.

You debase yourself.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> You say that like it makes your argument. It does not. I never argued about the minimum wage. If you are an attorney, you should ask the school that trained you for your money back.
> 
> I argued that what I see in that clip is a cheapskate trying to justify his cheapness and embarrassing himself in the process. You see something else. That was the point I was making: We both see what we want to see.
> 
> But let's take it beyond what the clip shows. Sure, Mr. Pink was just arguing with his peers to justify his cheapness, but you take his embarrassing shit-show to a new level, because you are not doing it among a group of your peers. Look where you go to make the argument for your cheapness: on a forum for Uber drivers. If Mr. Pink had stood there and tried to justify his cheapness to a bunch of waitresses, he would have looked like even more of an asshole than he already did. You are that level of asshole, coming here to try to justify your cheapness to the very people who suffer as a result of it.
> 
> You debase yourself.


Annnnnnd once again, no valid counterpoint. All I hear is wah wah wah with no substance. Seems like Mr. Pink "justified" himself quite well having a valid answer to everything thrown at him while the others did not, just like you. The reason I mentioned minimum wage is because I think that is the only valid point to be made.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> Annnnnnd once again, no valid counterpoint. All I hear is wah wah wah with no substance. Seems like Mr. Pink "justified" himself quite well having a valid answer to everything thrown at him while the others did not, just like you. The reason I mentioned minimum wage is because I think that is the only valid point to be made.


You made no points to counter. You are a cheapskate. You come to our house, the people who are affected by your cheapness, and construct arguments to compensate for the knowledge that you are a cheapskate. Everyone who's not a cheapskate can see it. Counter those points.


----------



## S. Ureitis

There's no need to tip said:


> And who is forcing you, or anyone else for that matter, to drive for Uber? If Lyft or the other companies were so great why are we having this conversation? Like it or not Uber was started as a cashless tipless system. Many people in the general public found this refreshing as an escape from the nightmare tip culture this country has become. At some point you guys need to take responsibility for your own actions. You are big boys and girls and can CHOOSE to drive for Uber or not. Why strong-arm the customer to do something or feel guilty about something that was never originally intended yet you guys signed up and agreed to anyway? I say bravo to Uber for that stance and that language. If this isn't what the public wants, they won't survive.


No one is forcing people to drive for Uber. They do it for extra money, some as a full time job, and it's not a bad option. If you don't want to tip don't! Who is forcing you to tip the waitress, valet or whoever? No one is strong arming costumers for tips and if they feel guilty it's because they know deep down they should tip! Some Uber drivers offer water, gum, aux cable so you can select your own music as well as a selection of phone chargers to the riders, which is superior costumer service at a fraction of the cost compared to that of a taxi, Does that not deserve a tip? Still if you don't want to tip don't and if drivers waitresses or valets want to label you "dick" then live with it, because hopefully freedom of speech won't die with the "tip culture" you despise so much.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> You made no points to counter. You are a cheapskate. You come to our house, the people who are affected by your cheapness, and construct arguments to compensate for the knowledge that you are a cheapskate. Everyone who's not a cheapskate can see it. Counter those points.


You have said nothing for which I need a counter. Ad hominem attacks are not points that deserve a response. Make an intelligent, well reasoned point TO THE ACTUAL DISCUSSION, and I would be happy to counter it.



S. Ureitis said:


> No one is forcing people to drive for Uber. They do it for extra money, some as a full time job, and it's not a bad option. If you don't want to tip don't! Who is forcing you to tip the waitress, valet or whoever? No one is strong arming costumers for tips and if they feel guilty it's because they know deep down they should tip! Some Uber drivers offer water, gum, aux cable so you can select your own music as well as a selection of phone chargers to the riders, which is superior costumer service at a fraction of the cost compared to that of a taxi, Does that not deserve a tip? Still if you don't want to tip don't and if drivers waitresses or valets want to label you "dick" then live with it, because hopefully freedom of speech won't die with the "tip culture" you despise so much.


Perhaps you need to read a bit more of what the drivers post on here if you truly believe that. Consumers absolutely ARE strong armed into tipping. It is the way the entire system is set up! Some feel guilty, but for people like me that don't feel guilty, it has more to do with being fed up with being labeled an asshole for not buying into the indoctrination like most other people do. I'm sorry that I'm intelligent enough to realize that, at least in the waiter, valet, etc... positions, they MUST get minimum wage whether there is a tip or not. Obviously that doesn't apply to Uber due to the independent contractor relationship but as I mentioned, and you confirmed, it is still a CHOICE made by the drivers. If you don't want to drive for Uber for what they offer then don't. Instead of accepting that, and making an informed decision to stay or go, you would rather complain about it, and gang up here trying to come up with ways to guilt/coerce passengers into supplementing your income. As for your other points about superior customer service, I agree with you 100%. I never once said that a tip wasn't EVER called for. If a driver does go above and beyond I would have no problem reaching into my pocket. I just said demanding tips for EVERY ride whether the passenger avails themself of your "superior customer service" or not no longer makes it a tip.


----------



## Greguzzi

Dude, now I believe you are a lawyer because only lawyers can be such insensitive assholes. LOL


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> Dude, now I believe you are a lawyer because only lawyers can be such insensitive assholes. LOL


And once again a well reasoned thought out post responded to with personal attacks. You call them insensitive because they are intelligent enough to see through your bullshit.


----------



## Greguzzi

LOL. You try to mask your execrable cheapness behind a facade of faux-sophistication, on a board of drivers directly affected by your execrable cheapness. And you still have the vanity to think you have won. LOL. You are the stereotypical f*ckstick "lawyer."


----------



## promdog

Greguzzi said:


> LOL. You try to mask your execrable cheapness behind a facade of faux-sophistication, on a board of drivers directly affected by your execrable cheapness. And you still have the vanity to think you have won. LOL. You are the stereotypical f*ckstick "lawyer."


.....and using big words doesn't make you sound any more intelligent (or any less stupid for that matter).

See what I did there? Rather than come up with a valid retort, I insulted you instead. I understand why you do it. It's actually easier, faster, and I get to go back to watching The Flash and Arrow on Hulu.


----------



## ninja warrior

promdog said:


> Not Tipping = Treating Your Driver Poorly?? Are you serious?
> 
> You think drivers are going to pass on a ping based on rating and negatively affect their acceptance rate? I think not. Pings are too sparse with the over-saturation of drivers.
> 
> Oh boy... I think I'd rather just "move on".


Yup every driver past the first week knows the threshold below which a passenger is going to be troublesome and yes ,we do pass on lowly rated riders.


----------



## ninja warrior

There's no need to tip said:


> And once again, no counterpoint. So taking into account that if he didn't tip she would still get paid minimum wage, what is the counterpoint? If you believe minimum wage should be higher, I won't fault you for that.


After riding in yellow cabs , which are somewhat notorious for being dangerously driven ( I drive amongst them every day), not willing to take you to the outer boroughs , not willing to take you for short trips, not accepting credit cards, not willing to make stops , not having their AC turned on, being dirtier than an uber, sometimes coercing tips; you come to the conclusion that an uber driver is not going above and beyond in serving you? Might I suggest you taper your expectations. Life will become colorful once you do.


----------



## Greguzzi

ninja warrior said:


> Yup every driver past the first week knows the threshold below which a passenger is going to be troublesome and yes ,we do pass on lowly rated riders.


Yep. I pass on low-rated riders all the time. The other day I passed on a 3.something. I think it was 3.8.



promdog said:


> .....and using big words doesn't make you sound any more intelligent (or any less stupid for that matter).
> 
> See what I did there? Rather than come up with a valid retort, I insulted you instead. I understand why you do it. It's actually easier, faster, and I get to go back to watching The Flash and Arrow on Hulu.


Meh. I've been insulted more effectively by utter morons.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ninja warrior said:


> After riding in yellow cabs , which are somewhat notorious for being dangerously driven ( I drive amongst them every day), not willing to take you to the outer boroughs , not willing to take you for short trips, not accepting credit cards, not willing to make stops , not having their AC turned on, being dirtier than an uber, sometimes coercing tips; you come to the conclusion that an uber driver is not going above and beyond in serving you? Might I suggest you taper your expectations. Life will become colorful once you do.


So let me get this straight, you are telling me that since cab drivers DON'T DO THE ACTUAL JOB, that an Uber driver is going above and beyond by JUST DOING THE JOB? That makes no sense. I don't consider any of what you said above and beyond. I consider that exactly what Uber offers as standard. Throw in candies, mints, charging cables, carrying heavy luggage to and from door, etc... Now we are taking above and beyond. Not killing me, and having a decent car with climate control which I pay for using Uber's electronic platform is STANDARD. Is it better than what is offered elsewhere? Yes, absolutely. All that means is that Uber runs a much better ship than the TLC. I'm sure there are drivers that don't meet that standard and Uber tells them they are no longer welcome. As it should be.

Let us use this example. Shipping company 1 throws all your shit around and breaks it all during your move while arriving 3 days behind schedule. Shipping company 2 takes care of your items, wraps them up and secures them, and delivers them timely in the condition that is expected. All this means is that company 1 sucks and isn't doing the job. Company 2 workers didn't earn a tip just because they did what was expected of them. Now if the workers for company 2 agreed to come in on weekends, or something else more than the call of duty in order to meet a really short deadline that you had, now we are talking. If a worker from company 2 agreed to move an item 15 pounds heavier than his employment contract says he has to in order to help you out, now we are talking. See the difference?


----------



## ninja warrior

There's no need to tip said:


> So let me get this straight, you are telling me that since cab drivers DON'T DO THE ACTUAL JOB, that an Uber driver is going above and beyond by JUST DOING THE JOB? That makes no sense. I don't consider any of what you said above and beyond. I consider that exactly what Uber offers as standard. Throw in candies, mints, charging cables, carrying heavy luggage to and from door, etc... Now we are taking above and beyond. Not killing me, and having a decent car with climate control which I pay for using Uber's electronic platform is STANDARD. Is it better than what is offered elsewhere? Yes, absolutely. All that means is that Uber runs a much better ship than the TLC. I'm sure there are drivers that don't meet that standard and Uber tells them they are no longer welcome. As it should be.
> 
> Let us use this example. Shipping company 1 throws all your shit around and breaks it all during your move while arriving 3 days behind schedule. Shipping company 2 takes care of your items, wraps them up and secures them, and delivers them timely in the condition that is expected. All this means is that company 1 sucks and isn't doing the job. Company 2 workers didn't earn a tip just because they did what was expected of them. Now if the workers for company 2 agreed to come in on weekends, or something else more than the call of duty in order to meet a really short deadline that you had, now we are talking. If a worker from company 2 agreed to move an item 15 pounds heavier than his employment contract says he has to in order to help you out, now we are talking. See the difference?


 You'll see that the things that make you like uber more than other services will disappear pretty quickly at the price you are paying . Not getting killed while getting driven around? The driver will drive like a yellow cab to maximize his time. Decent cars? You need to make money to actually maintain the cars. Climate control? Screw that, why waste the gas? The rating system only acts as a way to manipulate drivers, you can't actually eat with the 5 stars. If the service deteriorates, don't blame uber, blame yourself. It's already happening as we speak. You really do get what you pay for , a service worse than yellows. Equilibrium will be reached.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> Yep. I pass on low-rated riders all the time. The other day I passed on a 3.something. I think it was 3.8.
> 
> Meh. I've been insulted more effectively by utter morons.





ninja warrior said:


> You'll see that the things that make you like uber more than other services will disappear pretty quickly at the price you are paying . Not getting killed while getting driven around? The driver will drive like a yellow cab to maximize his time. Decent cars? You need to make money to actually maintain the cars. Climate control? Screw that, why waste the gas? The rating system only acts as a way to manipulate drivers, you can't actually eat with the 5 stars. If the service deteriorates, don't blame uber, blame yourself. It's already happening as we speak. You really do get what you pay for , a service worse than yellows. Equilibrium will be reached.


That may very well be true and if there comes a point in time where service does start to suffer, people WILL complain to Uber, and if Uber can't keep decent drivers as "partners" as a result, I would fully expect the price to increase to a level which would bring in decent drivers once again. If the market doesn't have drivers willing to meet Uber's standard, at the rates offered, I would expect Uber to resolve the situation. I don't agree that providing a "tip" is the solution to that problem. I do agree that the drivers should join together and put pressure on the company if they don't like the arrangement. I also agree that there is a good chance Uber will lose the independent contractor lawsuit. If that doesn't work, actions speak louder than words, walk away.

And for the record, I applaud your intelligent non-flame response to my post. If only most of the drivers around here were like you something might actually get done.


----------



## ninja warrior

There's no need to tip said:


> That may very well be true and if there comes a point in time where service does start to suffer, people WILL complain to Uber, and if Uber can't keep decent drivers as "partners" as a result, I would fully expect the price to increase to a level which would bring in decent drivers once again. If the market doesn't have drivers willing to meet Uber's standard, at the rates offered, I would expect Uber to resolve the situation. I don't agree that providing a "tip" is the solution to that problem. I do agree that the drivers should join together and put pressure on the company if they don't like the arrangement. I also agree that there is a good chance Uber will lose the independent contractor lawsuit. If that doesn't work, actions speak louder than words, walk away.
> 
> And for the record, I applaud your intelligent non-flame response to my post. If only most of the drivers around here were like you something might actually get done.


 I do intend to talk away. Away from the whole cabbie gig in the next month or two. The gig is a shit show and uber's policies trickle down to their competitors pretty quickly. It insults my intelligence to drive at these rates and anyone with half a brain will abandon ship. Why do I keep driving ? It's a stop gap. I agree on the matter of uber losing the contractor/employee suit. We were having a debate, you and me, doesn't mean we can't stay civil. The candidates for the presidential elections seem to be rubbing off on everyone.


----------



## Agent99

There's no need to tip said:


> That may very well be true and if there comes a point in time where service does start to suffer, people WILL complain to Uber, and if Uber can't keep decent drivers as "partners" as a result, I would fully expect the price to increase to a level which would bring in decent drivers once again. If the market doesn't have drivers willing to meet Uber's standard, at the rates offered, I would expect Uber to resolve the situation. .


Are you kidding? That point in time has already arrived. I cannot speak to the differences in New York City, as that is an unique market. UberX passengers report to me a drop in quality of drivers and cars, more cancelled rides resulting in longer wait times, cannot communicate with drivers, drivers collecting no show cancellation fees instead of looking around for riders, etc. Uber relies on driver ratings to weed out some of these problems eventually, but before a low rated driver is deactivated he will have given 30, 50, or whatever number of rides. Then he is replaced by an even more inexperienced driver and the cycle repeats.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Agent99 said:


> Are you kidding? That point in time has already arrived. I cannot speak to the differences in New York City, as that is an unique market. UberX passengers report to me a drop in quality of drivers and cars, more cancelled rides resulting in longer wait times, cannot communicate with drivers, drivers collecting no show cancellation fees instead of looking around for riders, etc. Uber relies on driver ratings to weed out some of these problems eventually, but before a low rated driver is deactivated he will have given 30, 50, or whatever number of rides. Then he is replaced by an even more inexperienced driver and the cycle repeats.


I've recently used Uber in Vegas, Miami, Philly, and New York and all my experiences (except for 3 minor issues) have been good. The minor annoyances are far from serious at this point but you are right, there is the possibility that they will increase in frequency. If that happens, the ball is in Uber's court to remedy it. Let's see what, if anything they do.


----------



## ninja warrior

There's no need to tip said:


> I've recently used Uber in Vegas, Miami, Philly, and New York and all my experiences (except for 3 minor issues) have been good. The minor annoyances are far from serious at this point but you are right, there is the possibility that they will increase in frequency. If that happens, the ball is in Uber's court to remedy it. Let's see what, if anything they do.


I've heard of funny stories of how the new and inexperienced drivers don't know how to get to LGA from in front of the midtown tunnel or how they can't get you to places just across the bridges in Brooklyn or how to get to Chelsea from Astoria, Queens.


----------



## NachonCheeze

There's no need to tip said:


> And STILL no actual response to my point. I get it, they pay you like shit. I'm sorry for that but why is that MY problem? Why is it MY problem that ALL OF YOU participate in a system that is so terrible like there is no alternative? Why should I be FORCED to provide you with a gratuity for doing the basic job? And when I say forced, I don't mean actually physically compelled. I mean why should it be seen as socially unacceptable for me not to provide a gratuity when none is deserved or earned? Uber's system was always cashless and tipless. THAT is the expectation. If the amount they pay is not deemed acceptable then do something about it. Stop driving for them, go to competitors such as Lyft, unionize. DON'T take it out on the guy who just wants to get across town at the agreed upon rate.


Curious: How do you feel about mandated minimum wages? Why is it my problem that some person has no skills and cant get a better job that would pay more. As a business owner why should I be FORCED to pay someone a minimum wage when I could get someone else to do the same job for less? And when I say forced I do mean actually forced. Why should it be seen that if I pay some poor slob $1/hour that this is socially (and legally) unacceptable? Don't take it out on someone who is just trying to make all the money they can.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

EcoboostMKS said:


> If uber wanted their riders to tip, there would be a tip option. It's not there for a reason. Uber is trying to create the anti-taxi way of doing business. They know cheap people don't like to tip, so that's the type of environment and people they're appealing to. Better cars than typical taxis for a fraction of the price and no cash needed, ever.
> 
> Don't expect this to ever change. At least not with uber.


POST # 16/EcoboostMKS: I can see that
YOU haven't done 
Historical Reasearch on this VERY TOPIC.
Although YOU ARE CORRECT about "Fos-
tering a Cheap-O AntiTaxi Mindset" the
Record shows that WAAAAAAY back in
2012 there WAS "Tipping-in-App". What
happened ?

#[T]Ruthless Leader's GREED morphed
into ALL-CONSUMING AVARICE. He
decided to start taking 20% out of the
Drivers' Tips. Drivers cried "FOUL!".
A Lawsuit FOUND FOR the Cheated
Drivers...then...Travis RETALIATED
with the "Tips are Included" Reign
of Avaricious Duplicity in 2013.

Bison:What's Archived CAN Surprise!


----------



## Agent99

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 16/EcoboostMKS: I can see that
> YOU haven't done
> Historical Reasearch on this VERY TOPIC.
> Although YOU ARE CORRECT about "Fos-
> tering a Cheap-O AntiTaxi Mindset" the
> Record shows that WAAAAAAY back in
> 2012 there WAS "Tipping-in-App". What
> happened ?
> 
> #[T]Ruthless Leader's GREED morphed
> into ALL-CONSUMING AVARICE. He
> decided to start taking 20% out of the
> Drivers' Tips. Drivers cried "FOUL!".
> A Lawsuit FOUND FOR the Cheated
> Drivers...then...Travis RETALIATED
> with the "Tips are Included" Reign
> of Avaricious Duplicity in 2013.
> 
> Bison:What's Archived CAN Surprise!


This is amazing, if true. I always suspected the real reason for no in-app tipping is that Uber wasn't allowed to make anything on tips (unlike with fares.)

Can you provide any evidence supporting this, that 1. Uber once allowed in-app tipping and/or 2. Uber was sued for trying to get a cut of tips?


----------



## GILD

Lets face it, just look at $7 Fare, uber gets $1.70 plus $1.75, for 25%. $3.40 of $7 and driver gets $4.60!
uber says driver made the $7 and drivers are paid $7, and drivers have made more per hour on Gross fares! all lies, and truth.
uber scalps drivers gross pay with their fees, that they alter on a whim. so it is disingenuous to say drivers gross fares have gone up 6%, or that drivers gross fares are $39 an hour. Those numbers give wrong impression. 
truth is the burger joint should charge $8 for your burger and pay waiters a fair wage for the area the restaurant is in. As set by the local county with state minimums, backed up by federal minimums. If an employer could pay every WORKER in the usa $1 an hour, they most likely would! 
back to uber, I think the $7 fare for a mile or two up road is pretty fair, but a payout of $4.60 is not fair. what did uber do for the pax to earn $3.40?
an app? LOL, insurance for 4 min in car? common how much could that cost, $1? The point is apps are a dime a dozen today. 
and at $4.60 a trip x 3 trips an hour, a driver can only make $13 an hour minus gas! So $10 an hour if on ping nearby constantly.
and what does uber earn on that hour for uber? $10 an hour for them too. See the problem. 100% of service was done by driver. 
tips should be included in fare! the same $7 should be paid by customer. but uber does not deserve the same pay an hour that the driver is getting for himself. If i were uber I would try to get as many drivers as I could. each driver is putting $10 an hour in ubers pocket. Oh wait they do that, they try to get more drivers each minute of the day, by getting drivers themselves to shoot themselves in foot for a quick $150, only to lose thousands over the next few months. It really is a house of cards, and if i had to guess they are raking it in until it all comes crumbling down.
There is a tipping point for a driver, where the driver wont drive for that amount of pay! Uber is close to that point! 
i feel with the PHX .75 cents a mile move they are seeing if it fails. tip a city at a time. find the sweet spot for uber, drivers can stroke it.
craigslist for drive share may be on its way soon? seems like if I were a passenger I could by rideshare insurance for me, like airplane insurance!
if i could do that, then whoever i was ride sharing with would matter none as I am covered. thus craigslist rider app. 
and If i sold the insurance on a per ride basis, then I could make a killing.

app looks like this, Agreement of use. agreement to buy insurance at a fee of $2 per ride.
map, pinging at locations where paxes are asking for rides, drivers click on pax pinging, they have 10 seconds to decide to go get them, if not it is released to pinging at their location again. if pax is willing to agree then the two agree to contract that each has already agreed to. 
driver gets pax, pax gets ride and is covered. all pax pings are open for anyone to go get. the drive to get them will deter pax or driver from going.
seems like a simple enough app in these times. app originator could take a $1 fee for each pax and driver they match. fees are based on simply minimum of $5 driver would get $3, but only on trips less than 1 mile. over 1 mile, over 1 mile, a fair rate, lets go $1.25 per mile, and 35 cents a min. pax enters destination, and google maps tells how far and how many min, calculation based on google maps numbers. Fare is agreed upon immediately before driver picks up. payment is made to app and transfered to driver after $2 deduction. hmm. 
surge would be gone, only fair rates would be agreed upon by both parties, all this in 15 seconds of less. 
but ubers system, similar, uber makes fare, uber takes, 40% cut, uber makes up surge in non surge areas to take PAXs money.
me and Pax agree for $15 bucks ill take him, app gives him and him only insurance, not my car. hes not liable anyway, he wasnt driving. drivers problem. app takes $1. You want to be rich as hell, make that app. design that. hook up with state farm for insurance JUST on PAX while in car. 
seems like this is what real RIDE share would look like! again, similar to airplane. hmmm...
I would love to see pings on page wanting a ride, I click them and it tells me they want to go 10 miles away and payout is $18 bucks. boom i agree, Then go get them and drive them. They are covered by RIDERS insurance for just them. F your car and your insurance. they are covered without the lawsuit. Maybe that is just a dream, im sure there must be hoops. but i can certainly take a FRIEND to the airport for $10 bucks of gas money. that does not make me for hire. So how do you get around the for hire part? hmm.. not sure, If i drive you for free, but you give me $15 for gas, am i for hire? hell the app could be missing the link with google maps, and it would still work. You could jst have pax say 10 miles north from my location, then the math would work out fare for $24. seems simple ish to me. craigslist for rides! hmm.. its late im rambling.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Agent99 said:


> This is amazing, if true. I always suspected the real reason for no in-app tipping is that Uber wasn't allowed to make anything on tips (unlike with fares.)
> 
> Can you provide any evidence supporting this, that 1. Uber once allowed in-app tipping and/or 2. Uber was sued for trying to get a cut of tips?


POST # 365/Agent99: Right, Chief!
Sorry that I Lost Patience the 1st Time
Around. I spent about 5 Solid Weeks
JUST READING before Signing Up on
07 DEC 2014.. It was a Period of Exten-
sive AND Intensive Reading, during
which I found the Info that You seek
to Verify.

Sadly, in This Instance I retained NO
WRITTEN Notes at THAT time, never
Dreaming of my Current Responsibili-
ties as 3rd Notable and Mentoring Bison.

Try Searching [here] the Earliest UPNF 
Posts in "Tipping" [May/June 2014] com-
bined with Googling the 
"Years 2012/2013" + "Uber". CHEERS!


----------



## Greguzzi

Agent99 said:


> Are you kidding? That point in time has already arrived. I cannot speak to the differences in New York City, as that is an unique market. UberX passengers report to me a drop in quality of drivers and cars, more cancelled rides resulting in longer wait times, cannot communicate with drivers, drivers collecting no show cancellation fees instead of looking around for riders, etc. Uber relies on driver ratings to weed out some of these problems eventually, but before a low rated driver is deactivated he will have given 30, 50, or whatever number of rides. Then he is replaced by an even more inexperienced driver and the cycle repeats.


And she is speaking from the standpoint of Seattle, where the rates were not recently cut. I cannot imagine how bad things have gotten for the cheap, entitled Uber passengers in markets where the rates were recently cut.


----------



## Agent99

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 365/Agent99: Right, Chief! Do
> your own Research
> Lazy Bones! chi1cabby will verify.
> Whadda'ya want...a Burning Bush...
> or the Story inscribed in Helvetica
> on Two Stone Tablets ?
> 
> Bison: Rookies these Days...REALLY ?


Huh? A Google search on "Uber once allowed in-app tipping" turned up nothing. I didn't want the info inscribed on tablets. Just a link would have been fine. You're making the big claim that Uber once had in-app tipping. (I tend to believe you). I thought you would have no trouble backing it up.


----------



## ninja warrior

Agent99 said:


> This is amazing, if true. I always suspected the real reason for no in-app tipping is that Uber wasn't allowed to make anything on tips (unlike with fares.)
> 
> Can you provide any evidence supporting this, that 1. Uber once allowed in-app tipping and/or 2. Uber was sued for trying to get a cut of tips?


http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...s-class-action-against-uber-over-tips-n473176
http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/Uber-drivers-suit-over-tips-clears-hurdle-5044858.php


----------



## excel2345

There's no need to tip said:


> And here we go. Case in point. Completely ignore the issue and respond with an ad hominem attack. Slavery was also as American as apple pie. So was women having no rights.... Yep, guess things never change for the better huh...


Hi no need, I just went back to this thread I started and just want to ask, why is the language in our agreement regarding tips different than what a rider sees? In the agreement under payment it says *tip not included* while in their communication with riders it's 
*tip is not required *why doesn't it say tip is not required in both instances?


----------



## There’s no need to tip

excel2345 said:


> Hi no need, I just went back to this thread I started and just want to ask, why is the language in our agreement regarding tips different than what a rider sees? In the agreement under payment it says *tip not included* while in their communication with riders it's
> *tip is not required *why doesn't it say tip is not required in both instances?


Was the language in the agreement always "tip not included" or did they change that after the class action? I have asked numerous times on here if someone would share the materials Uber makes available as I am not a driver and was interested in exactly what Uber communicates to the drivers. No one has been willing to share.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> Was the language in the agreement always "tip not included" or did they change that after the class action? I have asked numerous times on here if someone would share the materials Uber makes available as I am not a driver and was interested in exactly what Uber communicates to the drivers. No one has been willing to share.


Look it up for yourself, ya lazy, cheap bastard. You think we all just accumulate and hoard old Uber agreements?


----------



## Boober

I hang this in my car:


----------



## lyft_audi

Boober said:


> I hang this in my car: http://www.ebay.com/itm/262346395167?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649


You just posted the same link in four posts... It almost seems like you are the seller...

Just sayin' it seems that way


----------



## ninja warrior

lyft_audi said:


> You just posted the same link in four posts... It almost seems like you are the seller...
> 
> Just sayin' it seems that way


They ship from LA, the city where the poster is located. Coincidence? *Cue the theme from X-files.


----------



## Boober

@Lyft Audi - I have to admit, you have keen observations skills with a strong flair for publicity and press releases. Have you considered trading in your rideshare industry job for a much more lucrative and dynamic career in Public Relations? Or at least a Private Investigator?


----------



## lyft_audi

I'm actually in graphic design and marketing, smartass... 

I just don't spam forums to sell sheets of paper to people for 5 bucks.

Spammer.


----------



## lyft_audi

ninja warrior said:


> They ship from LA, the city where the poster is located. Coincidence? *Cue the theme from X-files.


Not a coincidence at all... I was being sarcastic.


----------



## ninja warrior

lyft_audi said:


> Not a coincidence at all... I was being sarcastic.


----------



## lyft_audi

*sigh*


----------



## Boober

lyft_audi said:


> I'm actually in graphic design and marketing, smartass...
> 
> I just don't spam forums to sell sheets of paper to people for 5 bucks.
> 
> Spammer.


Well, considering it's a relevant product posted in relevant forums, and considering there are some people who find it useful, maybe you can cut me a break? It's not like I'm posting ads for fake [email protected], gay porn, or to join my MLM.

Hater.


----------



## promdog

Seems like people in other countries are confused with America's tipping practice as well. lol

Why Tipping Is A Scam


----------



## ninja warrior

promdog said:


> Seems like people in other countries are confused with America's tipping practice as well. lol
> 
> Why Tipping Is A Scam


People in foreign countries do have a profound knowledge of how the wage laws work in the United States. NOT!


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ninja warrior said:


> People in foreign countries do have a profound knowledge of how the wage laws work in the United States. NOT!


You mean the law that says all employees must receive minimum wage from their employer, even those that work in positions that receive tip?


----------



## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> Seems like people in other countries are confused with America's tipping practice as well. lol
> 
> Why Tipping Is A Scam


Lol, really?  I think you can do better than that.


----------



## ninja warrior

There's no need to tip said:


> You mean the law that says all employees must receive minimum wage from their employer, even those that work in positions that receive tip?


We can keep beating the dead horse. Tipping isn't going away. Show me an example of a culture which went, from pro tipping, to being totally against it.


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> Lol, really?  I think you can do better than that.


OYaRly! This guy is hilarious. He does one on Gift Cards too!!! Enjoy!

*Why Gift Cards Are A Scam - YouTube*


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ninja warrior said:


> We can keep beating the dead horse. Tipping isn't going away. Show me an example of a culture which went, from pro tipping, to being totally against it.


That is not a counter to my comment... You are correct, I don't think tipping will completely go away any time soon. However, I do believe that surely and slowly you will see more and more "Ubertype situations" where people don't feel guilty about not tipping. I think it truly will become an optional endeavor and not a societal mandate at some point starting with the restaurants paying higher wages and getting rid of tipping.


----------



## ninja warrior

There's no need to tip said:


> That is not a counter to my comment... You are correct, I don't think tipping will completely go away any time soon. However, I do believe that surely and slowly you will see more and more "Ubertype situations" where people don't feel guilty about not tipping. I think it truly will become an optional endeavor and not a societal mandate at some point starting with the restaurants paying higher wages and getting rid of tipping.


Uber type model where the customer is fooled into believing that the tip is included? I would suggest rectifying the root of the problem, which is suspect wages, and not the resultant "wage correction" i.e tip. Even at the "no-tipping"restaurants, they include a standard tip percentage or jack the menu prices. So, you are going to pay either way.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ninja warrior said:


> Uber type model where the customer is fooled into believing that the tip is included? I would suggest rectifying the root of the problem, which is suspect wages, and not the resultant "wage correction" i.e tip. Even at the "no-tipping"restaurants, they include a standard tip percentage or jack the menu prices, you are going to pay either way.


Don't be so naive. I really don't think THAT many customers think Uber is taking a fare, adding some set percentage, and giving that all to the driver as a formal tip. Yes I believe some might, but I think most are blowing smoke up drivers ass when they say that. The reason I say "tip is included" is not in the literal sense of a tip (% on top of the fare) but as in that is the agreed upon amount for the trip, everything included (which is what Uber has always advertised). I know the fare, the driver knows the fare, and Uber knows the fare. Everyone is in agreement (by virtue of the drivers working for Uber that is their agreement) that is the amount that will be paid when using Uber. If that amount is unsatisfactory then the driver should not continue. Same as with the resturant. If they start paying $12 an hour and say no tips, but the waiter is used to making $20 an hour under the old system, they should either accept it or walk. To me it is not really just about extra cost above the agreed upon rate. I am just sick and tired of tipping. I don't want to think about the entire endeavor. I'm sick of trying to figure out who I'm supposed to tip, what the correct amount to tip this year is (which many people seem to disagree about), etc... I just want to pay for shit and go. I just want to pick up my car, or get my bags sent to my hotel room, or have a pizza delivered without some guy with his hand out. I understand that costs will obviously have to go up to make that happen, but I guarantee you that the cost will go up less than the amount I'm expected to tip right now.


----------



## uberisti

T.I.P.S - To Insure Prompt Service. As drivers, we have the capability to offer service..prompt or otherwise. Uber provides an opportunity for generally generous and appreciative people to be cheap inconsiderate d'bags.....because uber said its ok. Change is coming to this uber culture or it will self destruct.


----------



## uberisti

promdog said:


> This is a tough thread to read. So, what I gather is this:
> 
> 
> When Uber first started, they did not have a "Tip" option and their app. They paid over $2/mile. UberX also required permits to conform with regulations. Passengers provided a cash tip when they wanted to and all was good.....
> After Lyft came onto the scene and started their donation-based, permit-less driver services, UberX started to figure out ways to compete. Later, Lyft started paying by the mile and UberX competed. TNC war began. Passengers still provided a tip when they wanted to either with cash or through app (lyft).
> Lyft lowered their rates. UberX lowered their rates.... and on it goes. Drivers are, over all getting paid less. Passengers still provided a tip when they wanted to either with cash or through app (lyft).
> Now that drivers are getting paid less by their respective TNC companies, they want to pressure the passenger to make up the difference in tips. In other words, they want to liken themselves to a bartender or waitress....
> Shouldn't Uber drivers be more upset about the rate Uber now pays them versus itching about whether or not they get a tip from the passenger?
> 
> Can someone please post the definition of the word, "tip" again?


T.I.P.S. - To Insure Prompt Service


----------



## uberisti

wethepeople said:


> AND THAT'S NOW REALLY FUNNY !!! You're an Attorney ?? that's total BS
> If you really were why would you waste time to discuss stupid things with "simple people" like us?
> 
> You're a security guard, bored at work in the best case lol..
> 
> An attorney discussing with Taxidrivers about tips lol.. come on :-D


billable hours! he is probably a hack for uber doing some research for the ass cramming coming uber's way.


----------



## ChortlingCrison

There's no need to tip said:


> Was the language in the agreement always "tip not included" or did they change that after the class action? I have asked numerous times on here if someone would share the materials Uber makes available as I am not a driver and was interested in exactly what Uber communicates to the drivers. No one has been willing to share.


I stopped reading after I am not a driver..........


----------



## There’s no need to tip

ChortlingCrison said:


> I stopped reading after I am not a driver..........


Yup, because you guys can't handle any views that other than your woe is me circlejerk, as well thought out and reasoned as they might be.


----------



## Tequila Jake

There's no need to tip said:


> Yes, they say tip is included BECAUSE IT IS.... It is included in the rate you are being paid by them.


Wrong! There is no tip is included. Read the passenger Terms of Service:
_
This payment structure is intended to fully compensate the Third Party Provider for the services or goods provided. Except with respect to taxicab transportation services requested through the Application, Uber does not designate any portion of your payment as a tip or gratuity to the Third Party Provider. Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is "voluntary," "not required," and/or "included" in the payments you make for services or goods provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts, beyond those described above, to the Third Party Provider. You understand and agree that, while you are free to provide additional payment as a gratuity to any Third Party Provider who provides you with services or goods obtained through the Service, you are under no obligation to do so. Gratuities are voluntary. After you have received services or goods obtained through the Service, you will have the opportunity to rate your experience and leave additional feedback about your Third Party Provider._


----------



## sellkatsell44

i don't know how you all are with tipping IRL, before uber, after uber and in between...whether this experience has made you a better tipper because you're more conscious or if you were a great tipper before anyways.

i tip typically for good service but over the years it just seems to be a norm to "tip". often I tip more heavily if the bill was small because 20-30% of $4 is still chump change.

recently I got a piece done, and the manager seem surprised that i wanted to tip. it was a pricy one to begin with but the girl was really good and so why wouldn't i tip?

i looked into tipping and it looks like while it is a norm for services, its originated as a "supplement" because those tipping understands that the person providing the services aren't paid enough by the owner.

so basically, if you're not getting tipped...either the person doesn't understand the concept, isn't creative enough to ask you if you venmo or paypal (to tip that way if they don't carry cash) or

they think you're getting paid enough and so tipping isn't necessary.

maybe they can't grasp the concept that there are actually folks out there who would do uber full time and depend on uber for actual moolah. and that what money you make, is just extra on what you normally get with your day job. not that that's true.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Tequila Jake said:


> Wrong! There is no tip is included. Read the passenger Terms of Service:
> _
> This payment structure is intended to fully compensate the Third Party Provider for the services or goods provided. Except with respect to taxicab transportation services requested through the Application, Uber does not designate any portion of your payment as a tip or gratuity to the Third Party Provider. Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is "voluntary," "not required," and/or "included" in the payments you make for services or goods provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts, beyond those described above, to the Third Party Provider. You understand and agree that, while you are free to provide additional payment as a gratuity to any Third Party Provider who provides you with services or goods obtained through the Service, you are under no obligation to do so. Gratuities are voluntary. After you have received services or goods obtained through the Service, you will have the opportunity to rate your experience and leave additional feedback about your Third Party Provider._


You are missing the meaning of what I am saying. I know that an extra 15 or 20 or whatever % is not going to the driver. That isn't what I mean by tip is included. We have to look at what you guys are considering a tip. You are considering it as something that pretty much HAS to be given, as a societal norm. Therefore it is NOT voluntary, rather it is expected if you don't want to be considered a dick. What I am saying is EXACTLY what you just posted. What I mean by "tip is included" means _"this payment structure is intended to *fully compensate *the Third Party Provider for the services or goods provided." _This means that all EXPECTED payment has been provided when Uber charges my card. Now I'm not saying a driver has never earned an ACTUAL gratuity. I have said many times on here that there are several situations where I feel a little bit extra has been earned. However the key word here is EARNED. The problem the drivers seem to be having is they call it a TIP but really consider it an additional wage from the passenger. So if it is to be considered a wage, and not an actual EARNED gratuity, according to the Uber terms of service the driver has already been fully compensated and thus TIP IS INCLUDED (by your definition of the term).


----------



## Uberduberdoo

There's no need to tip said:


> this payment structure is intended to *fully compensate *the Third Party Provider for the services or goods provided."


Intended doesn't make it so. One could argue, those users that know that the driver is not being fully compensated should kick in a little buck or two. Otherwise it's confirmed &%[email protected]!*.


----------



## scooterabc

Tipping isn't required. Neither is picking up a passenger or giving them a good rating. 5 star passengers always tip. 4 star passengers don't. The only control drivers have in this situation is to educate passengers when possible (which is VERY frequently) and to rate passengers as you would want the next driver to see. 

This evening I took 5 rides between 6 pm and 8 pm, all fairly local and under 8 miles. The payout from the 5 rides was $33.93. The tips from the 5 rides came from 3 of the rides and totaled $14.00.

the rides:

1. 2.5 mile 1.5 surge no tip, payout $3.79 got rated as 3 star
2. 6.5 miles, 1.6 surge, $6 tip, payout $9.64 got rated as 5 stars. 3 passengers. One of the passengers wanted me to settle a disagreement with one of the others. She said that she always tips and thinks that it is good form, the other thought that tips were included. I explained the situation and now hopefully the other two are better educated.
3. 7.1 miles, 1.8 surge, $5 tip, payout $11.40 got rated as 5 stars.
4. 6.7 miles, no surge, $3 tip, payout $6.20 got rated as 5 stars. This one was interesting because one of the passengers said to the other that the tip is automatically setup on the phone. I interrupted and told her that there was no automated tipping mechanism with Uber and that if they wanted to tip it was typically done with cash. They were happy to tip. 2 more people educated.
5. 2.7 miles, no surge, no tip, payout $2.90 got rated as 2 stars. This was particularly annoying because unlike passenger 1 who was some kid probably getting to his minimum wage job, this couple was affluent and going from an expensive neighborhood to a very expensive steakhouse. 

I'll probably go out after dinner and see what the evening has in store for me. I was very pleased to experience more people tipping and more people discussing tipping. I think we are making progress.


----------



## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> Intended doesn't make it so. One could argue, those users that know that the driver is not being fully compensated should kick in a little buck or two. Otherwise it's confirmed &%[email protected]!*.


This may be absolutely true that "*intended* doesn't make it so". However, what makes it *not* so is not the fault of the user nor should it be made the user's responsibility.

Actually, the fault *and *responsibility is shared between Uber and the driver.


----------



## ColdRider

If my boss cut my pay, I would not work there anymore. I wouldn't expect others to make up the difference. 

I'm not sure why many of you would.


----------



## scooterabc

promdog said:


> This may be absolutely true that "*intended* doesn't make it so". However, what makes it *not* so is not the fault of the user nor should it be made the user's responsibility.
> 
> Actually, the fault *and *responsibility is shared between Uber and the driver.


It's a good passenger's responsibility to TIP unless there is an extremely good reason not to.
It's Uber's fault that passengers need so much education on this topic.
Passenger ratings are about the only vehicle we have for fixing this problem.
Eventually either rates will go up or passengers will tip. That is the long term solution.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

scooterabc said:


> It's a good passenger's responsibility to TIP unless there is an extremely good reason not to.
> It's Uber's fault that passengers need so much education on this topic.
> Passenger ratings are about the only vehicle we have for fixing this problem.
> Eventually either rates will go up or passengers will tip. That is the long term solution.


Why do drivers constantly feel entitled to inject THEIR values into the Uber system? "It's a good passenger's responsibility to TIP unless there is an extremely good reason not to." That is YOUR view but obviously not the view of the service nor the passengers. Why do YOU need so much education on this topic? It is laid out plain and simple not to expect a tip with Uber. If you have EARNED that tip, then you most certainly deserve one. If you just provided the service Uber has sold to the passenger, according to their terms of service the rate taken from my credit card fully compensates the driver. If rates go up, so be it.


----------



## scooterabc

There's no need to tip said:


> Why do drivers constantly feel entitled to inject THEIR values into the Uber system? "It's a good passenger's responsibility to TIP unless there is an extremely good reason not to."


Because our customs and practices are dictated by the society in which we live. Tipping service providers, particularly car service providers, is a long standing tradition in the United States. But you live in Antarctica, so perhaps your society is different...


----------



## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> This may be absolutely true that "*intended* doesn't make it so". However, what makes it *not* so is not the fault of the user nor should it be made the user's responsibility.
> 
> Actually, the fault *and *responsibility is shared between Uber and the driver.


Certainly not the fault nor the responsibility of the user. Just saying if the user knows the drivers compinsation has evolved to be questionable, by the way, to benifit the user, he or she just may want to kick in a few bucks. Maybe just be a nice person because you know the deal. Like the driver, pretty nice person, providing a ride for super cheap fares. Those cheap fares set by uber, not the driver. Yeah yeah, the driver agreed to do it, not riders problem bla bla bla. All the bullshit aside, just be a nice person, or dont. To each his own


----------



## There’s no need to tip

scooterabc said:


> Because our customs and practices are dictated by the society in which we live. Tipping service providers, particularly car service providers, is a long standing tradition in the United States. But you live in Antarctica, so perhaps your society is different...


Yes, but it is NOT a long standing practice with Uber. It is actually, you know, the exact opposite. So you sign up for the service knowing that and then complain that it is set up like that? As many people have mentioned, LYFT is NOT set up that way. Why support a system that has values you don't approve of? It would be like a vegan working for Steve's House of Meat and then *****ing at the customers for ordering meat loaf.


----------



## scooterabc

There's no need to tip said:


> Yes, but it is NOT a long standing practice with Uber. It is actually, you know, the exact opposite. So you sign up for the service knowing that and then complain that it is set up like that? As many people have mentioned, LYFT is NOT set up that way. Why support a system that has values you don't approve of? It would be like a vegan working for Steve's House of Meat and then *****ing at the customers for ordering meat loaf.


Do you tip the maid when you stay in a Hotel / Motel? If so, then why?
If you are going to drink the Uber Koolaid, by all means turn down tips and be happy with your < $1 per mile.


----------



## Greguzzi

scooterabc said:


> Because our customs and practices are dictated by the society in which we live. Tipping service providers, particularly car service providers, is a long standing tradition in the United States. But you live in Antarctica, so perhaps your society is different...


Don't waste your time with this cheap-ass clown. He is the voice of the skin-flint Ubernation. He is rider. Hear him roar.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

scooterabc said:


> Do you tip the maid when you stay in a Hotel / Motel? If so, then why?
> If you are going to drink the Uber Koolaid, by all means turn down tips and be happy with your < $1 per mile.


I don't tip them because I don't think they have done anything to EARN a tip. I leave my room in good condition.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> I don't tip them because I don't think they have done anything to EARN a tip. I leave my room in good condition.


Lemme guess: You leave your plate in good condition at a restaurant, too, by licking it clean, and therefore there's no need to tip?

What a cartoon you are, Travis.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> Lemme guess: You leave your plate in good condition at a restaurant, too, by licking it clean, and therefore there's no need to tip?
> 
> What a cartoon you are, Travis.


I generally don't dine alone in a sit down restaurant. Believe me, if I could socially get away with not tipping in a restaurant I would. I have full faith in my position but it isn't worth the social flack to push the point. I can't wait for waiters to be replaced by automated systems.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> I generally don't dine alone in a sit down restaurant. Believe me, if I could socially get away with not tipping in a restaurant I would. I have full faith in my position but it isn't worth the social flack to push the point. I can't wait for waiters to be replaced by automated systems.


If you truly had full faith in your position, you would not let social pressure dissuade you from it. I imagine you can't wait for the day when you don't have to interact with any of your fellow human beings at all. Do you dream of electric sheep? Pine for a robotic bedslave with three inviting holes? Ah . . . the future belongs to the asocial.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> If you truly had full faith in your position, you would not let social pressure dissuade you from it. I imagine you can't wait for the day when you don't have to interact with any of your fellow human beings at all. Do you dream of electric sheep? Pine for a robotic bedslave with three inviting holes? Ah . . . the future belongs to the asocial.


You are just being silly. My friends know my viewpoint on the issue, but I know that they will put in the difference if I don't, so if I want to keep going out with them I play it their way. I don't dine out all that often, so it isn't worth starting drama the times that I do. The interesting thing is, those same friends that wouldn't be happy if I didn't tip in a restaurant, don't tip maids in hotels and don't tip Uber (yes they know "tip is not included"). Not one of them. As so robotic bedslave, I say bring it on if it is anything lifelike! Why WOULDN'T you bang an android if one existed?


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> You are just being silly. My friends know my viewpoint on the issue, but I know that they will put in the difference if I don't, so if I want to keep going out with them I play it their way. I don't dine out all that often, so it isn't worth starting drama the times that I do. The interesting thing is, those same friends that wouldn't be happy if I didn't tip in a restaurant, don't tip maids in hotels and don't tip Uber (yes they know "tip is not included"). Not one of them. As so robotic bedslave, I say bring it on if it is anything lifelike! Why WOULDN'T you bang an android if one existed?


The only positive thing I have to say in reply is that you and your friends seem well matched.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

Greguzzi said:


> The only positive thing I have to say in reply is that you and your friends seem well matched.


Slowly we are making progress. More people than you think hold this view and it is only a matter of time until they break free and refuse to be sheep. You will see.


----------



## Greguzzi

There's no need to tip said:


> Slowly we are making progress. More people than you think hold this view and it is only a matter of time until they break free and refuse to be sheep. You will see.


No coarsening of American society surprises me anymore. I'm far more surprised when the opposite happens. The difference between us is that you cheer the coarsening, whereas I rue it.

And I was not paying a compliment by saying you and your friends seem well-matched. You all chicken out from carrying through with your convictions in the face of public social pressure only carrying through on those convictions when no one is watching.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

ColdRider said:


> If my boss cut my pay, I would not work there anymore. I wouldn't expect others to make up the difference.
> 
> I'm not sure why many of you would.


Must be nice to be able to immediately quit and either not need another job or be able to find one right away.

Not everyone is in that position.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

There's no need to tip said:


> As so robotic bedslave, I say bring it on if it is anything lifelike! Why WOULDN'T you bang an android if one existed?


I think you've just confirmed my opinion of you is right on target.

That android will be too expensive for you. Not being a "high priced corporate lawyer" and all. Too bad. You'd be a perfect couple.


----------



## secretadmirer

Gravelaine: his screen name says it all. Since he doesn't drive, there's no need for a well thought out response.


----------



## There’s no need to tip

secretadmirer said:


> Gravelaine: his screen name says it all. Since he doesn't drive, there's no need for a well thought out response.


Yup, keep taking the easy way out.


----------



## secretadmirer

All of this makes me appreciate driving a cab again. I may not get tipped on every fare but at least the rates are much higher like $3/mile and split half of it with the company. These kind of pax on here ( who boast about not tipping), are the ones you find when the rates are like .60/mile. Good riddance to them.


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## secretadmirer

All of this makes me appreciate driving a cab again. I may not get tipped on every fare but at least the rates are much higher like $3/mile and split half of it with the company. These kind of pax on here ( who boast about not tipping), are the ones you find when the rates are like .60/mile. Good riddance to them.


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## Uberduberdoo

http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/22/tip-your-uber-driver/


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## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/22/tip-your-uber-driver/


"Tip Your Uber Driver" is a great article.... especially when you get to the comments on the bottom stating an overwhelming "No" in response. That should be enough to smack some sense into you. The InterWebs has spoken.

By the way, I'm a driver and I don't believing in tipping.


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## There’s no need to tip

promdog said:


> "Tip Your Uber Driver" is a great article.... especially when you get to the comments on the bottom stating an overwhelming "No" in response. That should be enough to smack some sense into you. The InterWebs has spoken.
> 
> By the way, I'm a driver and I don't believing in tipping.


I love these responses:

What do you think lifting up a bag is worth? It's roughly 30 seconds of effort. At $20/hr, and 3600 seconds per hour, moving bags is worth about $0.15 - nice work.

The problem with this entitlement mentality is that these people aren't capable of anything but unskilled labor, so they assume the inverse is true too - that people who have real careers are incapable of doing manual labor. News flash to those guys: I can do your job myself. You can't do mine. Your living depends on my value on my time and energy being too high to lift a bag or wash a sock if someone else will do it. But don't go thinking that this is somehow a valued skill. When you get uppity enough to scream, "do it yourself then!" you know we'll say? "Okay!" And you can kiss your unskilled job goodbye. I don't see you tipping me every time you play a video game, even though I probably wrote some part of the game engine, the graphics driver, or the OS. Now imagine if I copped the same attitude, "tip me or make your own driver!"


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## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> "Tip Your Uber Driver" is a great article.... especially when you get to the comments on the bottom stating an overwhelming "No" in response. That should be enough to smack some sense into you. The InterWebs has spoken.
> 
> By the way, I'm a driver and I don't believing in tipping.


I don't need to be sense smacked, thanks, I have plenty. As a driver, I'll only drive at a 2.5x surge or higher, which covers a fair payment for my services. At this point, the lack of tipping doesn't affect me as it does drivers opeating at base rates. If i were a rider I would tip the driver because I know their compensation has suffered. I guess kinda like you tipping the driver even though you don't believe in tipping; there's a reason you do it. I'm sure the comments go each way as its the nature of debate. Because one particular view overwhelms the other doesn't make it the principal.


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## ksk2000

There's no need to tip said:


> My prior response was not limited to any particular employment and was all encompassing. At one point in time I was, now it is few and far between.


as a fellow nyker...theres no way in hell i would tip a yellow cabby. About 98% of them do not deserve ?%*^& ... I'm sure he knows this.


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## There’s no need to tip

ksk2000 said:


> as a fellow nyker...theres no way in hell i would tip a yellow cabby. About 98% of them do not deserve ?%*^& ... I'm sure he knows this.


Haven't been in an actual yellow in some time but I assume the experience is just as bad as I remember......


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## Backdash

ksk2000 said:


> theres no way in hell i would tip a yellow cabby. About 98% of them do not deserve ?%*^&


This begs the question if 98% of them do not deserve a tip does the 2% that do deserve a tip get one?


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## ksk2000

Backdash said:


> This begs the question if 98% of them do not deserve a tip does the 2% that do deserve a tip get one?


yes, when i think someone deserves it i do alot more then the norm. Its far and few in between tho. It usually happens in other states besides nj and ny. When i was in miami i tipped 50%...yea might sound stupid, but it was cause i was so desensitized to ny culture.


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## Backdash

ksk2000 said:


> yes, when i think someone deserves it i do alot more then the norm. Its far and few in between tho.


Cool!
So if you don't mind me asking, what is it that the 2% of yellow cabbies that you will tip do that you consider deserving of a tip?


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## Backdash

crickets....


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## promdog

Uberduberdoo said:


> I don't need to be sense smacked, thanks, I have plenty. As a driver, I'll only drive at a 2.5x surge or higher, which covers a fair payment for my services. At this point, the lack of tipping doesn't affect me as it does drivers opeating at base rates. If i were a rider I would tip the driver because I know their compensation has suffered. I guess kinda like you tipping the driver even though you don't believe in tipping; there's a reason you do it. I'm sure the comments go each way as its the nature of debate. Because one particular view overwhelms the other doesn't make it the principal.


The reason why I tip the driver even though I don't believe in tipping is because 1. and 2. I really enjoy giving.

I would probably tip my gaming software developer too if there was a means to do so.


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## Uberduberdoo

promdog said:


> The reason why I tip the driver even though I don't believe in tipping is because 1. and 2. I really enjoy giving.
> 
> I would probably tip my gaming software developer too if there was a means to do so.


I see, you are a gifter not a tipper. 
Uber should change the wording from "no need to tip" to " always gift your driver just dont call it a tip"
Damn, now There's no need to tip has to open a new account; ? There's no need to gift.
So as you really enjoy giving, to perfect strangers I might add, for no other reason than you own enjoyment, here is my Go Fund Me account ******........


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## There’s no need to tip

Ha, I don't even really use this account much anymore. Just got tired of the fight. Had a bachelor party last week. Took a bunch of Ubers. Had a discussion about tipping Uber while on a shuttle bus (not Uber) to an event. I presented all the facts you guys mention here about Uber. You guys would be proud. 1 of the guys was an ex-uber driver and confirmed all the info. Some friends didn't care and will still not tip, I think 1 will start tipping though so you got at least 1 convert.


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## ChortlingCrison

There's no need to tip said:


> Ha, I don't even really use this account much anymore. Just got tired of the fight. Had a bachelor party last week. Took a bunch of Ubers. Had a discussion about tipping Uber while on a shuttle bus (not Uber) to an event. I presented all the facts you guys mention here about Uber. You guys would be proud. 1 of the guys was an ex-uber driver and confirmed all the info. Some friends didn't care and will still not tip, I think 1 will start tipping though so you got at least 1 convert.


 I think the bus is the perfect transportation for you. I'm glad you found where you belong.


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## 14gIV

ChortlingCrison said:


> I think the bus is the perfect transportation for you. I'm glad you found where you belong.


what is it with you and busses


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## os2wiz

There's no need to tip said:


> Uber created a company with a culture that is cashless and tipless and made that fact VERY clear yet all you guys decided to sign up anyway and then have sourgrapes about it and take it out on thecustomer.


You neglected to point out that when Uber started this cashless, tipless utopia the minimum fare and the $/mile were double what they are now. That's what the drivers signed up for. Uber unilaterally cut the fares in half retroactively. Many drivers cannot make a profit at this fare rate, but have no other place to go for work. There's no sourgrapes going on when the terms of your agreement are changed after the fact.

I realize that you think that this is not your problem, and I'm OK with that. What if Uber capitulates and puts a tipping function into the ap? Where will you get your tipless, cashless ride then? Taxi? Lyft? Or if every driver did what they should and what you suggest, which is stop driving for Uber, you would lose your cashless, tipless ride anyway.


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## os2wiz

14gIV said:


> what is it with you and busses


I love kissing. My other partime job is riding buses for a transportation company to check the schedules, but I definitely like bussing better!


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## There’s no need to tip

os2wiz said:


> You neglected to point out that when Uber started this cashless, tipless utopia the minimum fare and the $/mile were double what they are now. That's what the drivers signed up for. Uber unilaterally cut the fares in half retroactively. Many drivers cannot make a profit at this fare rate, but have no other place to go for work. There's no sourgrapes going on when the terms of your agreement are changed after the fact.
> 
> I realize that you think that this is not your problem, and I'm OK with that. What if Uber capitulates and puts a tipping function into the ap? Where will you get your tipless, cashless ride then? Taxi? Lyft? Or if every driver did what they should and what you suggest, which is stop driving for Uber, you would lose your cashless, tipless ride anyway.


While that is true, I'm sure the terms between the driver and Uber also stated that rates were not guaranteed and could change at any time. If the drivers had an actual contract with Uber for x amount per mile plus x amount per time for x amount of years and then Uber broke the contract and reduced the rate that is a different story than drivers wishfully thinking the rates would remain the same with no guarantee. I have no problem with the market dictating the rate. As of right now, there are drivers at this rate and I will continue to request rides from them. If that started to change Uber would have to increase their rates to stay in business and I wouldn't have an issue with that.

Also, as I mentioned elsewhere on this site, if a tip REALLY meant a tip, I would have no issue with it being added to the app. However, we all know, as does Uber, that as soon as the OPTION to tip is implemented, socially it becomes MANDATORY in the eyes of the drivers (and many passengers). I know people that would feel compelled to press that 20% button if it popped up NO MATTER what the rate was. That is how strongly they have been indoctrinated. Once again, don't get me wrong, I am not against the act of tipping in general, I am against the EXPECTATION that a tip is pretty much a guarantee in all situations which is really what it unfortunately has become.


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## 14gIV

ChortlingCrison said:


> Oh MrIV14 or whatever, your no tip buddy is back.


scram you pesky stalker


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## There’s no need to tip

ChortlingCrison said:


> Temper, temper. Now now mr14 I thought that news would make you happy.


How about this as a compromise? Uber adds the ability to tip into the app and at the end of every ride, it presents a prompt for a tip. However, on the preceding screen it has Uber's standard language regarding how a separate tip in not included in addition to the fare however it is not required etc... whatever the current language is as a result of the class action, and informs the passenger that the tip amount doesn't factor into the passenger rating and the driver does not see the amount, if any, left as a tip for any specific passenger. I think in that situation, everyone wins. However, I'm pretty sure that if Uber did that, all of you guys would still be whining and complaining about it.


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## tommyboy

Charge rates high enough that tips won't be an issue. Problem solved minumun wage or less just doesn't cut it financially. 50 hours a week to net 300 after true expenses is far to low for the type of work drivers do.


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## There’s no need to tip

tommyboy said:


> Charge rates high enough that tips won't be an issue. Problem solved minumun wage or less just doesn't cut it financially. 50 hours a week to net 300 after true expenses is far to low for the type of work drivers do.


The problem is, Uber has no incentive to do so while drivers still drive for them at a quality level acceptable to the customer. If they started to have a manpower issue, or customers started complaining about the quality, they would be forced to raise the rates. It is really as cut and dry as that.


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## tommyboy

The problem is we are grossly underpaid. This situation can't last something got to give anybody have any idea on rectifying this situation please enlightened us,we need the advice.I will drive 40 hours this week for 200 take home.Thats not enough money. Soon as I find a better deal I'm gone. There are easier ways to make money with a car


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## 21stcenturyslavery

There's no need to tip said:


> 1. 33
> 2. New York
> 3. Attorney (but not an excessively highly paid NYC corporate lawyer)
> 
> The basis of my position is this. I am sick and tired of wondering where I have to tip and where I don't. I am fed up with tip culture in general. People like you LOVE to say it is cheapness and other such inflammatory remarks like that because it sounds good for your position. I actually wouldn't mind if some things were a little bit more expensive and I didn't have to deal with the issue anymore. With that in mind, am I still cheap? Am I still a pig?
> 
> Gratuities used to be reserved for situations where someone in a service industry went above and beyond for you but it has now devolved into an expectation for basic service. I find tip culture silly and nonsensical. Why do I tip the steakhouse waiter 20% on my $500 bill and the Denny's guy 20% on my $5 burger. Why does the bellman get $5 from each person he brings the bags up for and the valet $2 for every car? Why do I NOT tip the McDonald's and Taco Bell guy, the office janitor, or other such positions? Why was I NOT tipping the coffee house guy before but now there are tip buckets everywhere? Was I &%[email protected]!* for NOT tipping him BEFORE the tip bucket became common in EVERY SINGLE business? Things just make absolutely no sense and that is the frustration. Gratuities have nothing to do with the level of service anymore and have become a societal mandated fee. I know friends in restaurants that have had waiters that were completely inattentive, and sometimes even rude, but still felt compelled to leave a tip lest they be labeled a "&%[email protected]!*." You say, "why not give the option to leave a tip." The reason is because it slowly becomes LESS of an option and more of an obligation. Take the coffee house example. Go on any barista forum and you will see that ANY person that doesn't tip is a &%[email protected]!*. So now it is just expected when before there wasn't even an option to tip and no one had an issue. THAT right there is the problem. It is the attitude of the person getting the "gratuity" where once it was appreciated but now it is expected.
> 
> With that in mind, bring in Uber and my specific gripe with this whole issue. When Uber first came out it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You pull up the app, you get in the car, you get out. No fuss, no tip, no nothing. THAT was the understanding between all parties involved. The drivers went into it knowing what they were getting, the passengers knew what they were paying. People take issue with the wording they use. Tips included, now tips not required. The language doesn't matter. The point was the fare covered the transaction and nothing additional was needed. People like me were happy to see a system like that. That is what we wish everything we dealt with in life was like. Now the ONE place that we had made progress is under attack. All these drivers that are unhappy with the current Uber arrangement are once again making us feel like dicks because we are using the system as it was intended. Why are WE the dicks? Why should WE leave Uber? The system was set up like this so why can't you just accept that or YOU move on to another service or find a different part time job? I understand that Uber might not pay what you are happy with but what about that makes it MY problem now? The drivers were happy with the rate as it was before Uber screwed them and took a larger cut. I'm not paying any less for the service than I was so why should I make up the difference by NOW offering a "gratuity" when none was ever part of the "social contract" for this service? The issue is, your problem is with Uber, NOT the passenger. I keep seeing comments about slave labor and this and that. Seriously? Where do you think half your clothes come from? Where do you think your precious iPhones come from? You do know people were committing suicide in that factory right? Stop acting all high and mighty only when it is an issue that affects you. This is far from slave labor and you all need to lay off the hyperbole.





There's no need to tip said:


> 1. 33
> 2. New York
> 3. Attorney (but not an excessively highly paid NYC corporate lawyer)
> 
> The basis of my position is this. I am sick and tired of wondering where I have to tip and where I don't. I am fed up with tip culture in general. People like you LOVE to say it is cheapness and other such inflammatory remarks like that because it sounds good for your position. I actually wouldn't mind if some things were a little bit more expensive and I didn't have to deal with the issue anymore. With that in mind, am I still cheap? Am I still a pig?
> 
> Gratuities used to be reserved for situations where someone in a service industry went above and beyond for you but it has now devolved into an expectation for basic service. I find tip culture silly and nonsensical. Why do I tip the steakhouse waiter 20% on my $500 bill and the Denny's guy 20% on my $5 burger. Why does the bellman get $5 from each person he brings the bags up for and the valet $2 for every car? Why do I NOT tip the McDonald's and Taco Bell guy, the office janitor, or other such positions? Why was I NOT tipping the coffee house guy before but now there are tip buckets everywhere? Was I &%[email protected]!* for NOT tipping him BEFORE the tip bucket became common in EVERY SINGLE business? Things just make absolutely no sense and that is the frustration. Gratuities have nothing to do with the level of service anymore and have become a societal mandated fee. I know friends in restaurants that have had waiters that were completely inattentive, and sometimes even rude, but still felt compelled to leave a tip lest they be labeled a "&%[email protected]!*." You say, "why not give the option to leave a tip." The reason is because it slowly becomes LESS of an option and more of an obligation. Take the coffee house example. Go on any barista forum and you will see that ANY person that doesn't tip is a &%[email protected]!*. So now it is just expected when before there wasn't even an option to tip and no one had an issue. THAT right there is the problem. It is the attitude of the person getting the "gratuity" where once it was appreciated but now it is expected.
> 
> With that in mind, bring in Uber and my specific gripe with this whole issue. When Uber first came out it was advertised as a cashless tipless system. You pull up the app, you get in the car, you get out. No fuss, no tip, no nothing. THAT was the understanding between all parties involved. The drivers went into it knowing what they were getting, the passengers knew what they were paying. People take issue with the wording they use. Tips included, now tips not required. The language doesn't matter. The point was the fare covered the transaction and nothing additional was needed. People like me were happy to see a system like that. That is what we wish everything we dealt with in life was like. Now the ONE place that we had made progress is under attack. All these drivers that are unhappy with the current Uber arrangement are once again making us feel like dicks because we are using the system as it was intended. Why are WE the dicks? Why should WE leave Uber? The system was set up like this so why can't you just accept that or YOU move on to another service or find a different part time job? I understand that Uber might not pay what you are happy with but what about that makes it MY problem now? The drivers were happy with the rate as it was before Uber screwed them and took a larger cut. I'm not paying any less for the service than I was so why should I make up the difference by NOW offering a "gratuity" when none was ever part of the "social contract" for this service? The issue is, your problem is with Uber, NOT the passenger. I keep seeing comments about slave labor and this and that. Seriously? Where do you think half your clothes come from? Where do you think your precious iPhones come from? You do know people were committing suicide in that factory right? Stop acting all high and mighty only when it is an issue that affects you. This is far from slave labor and you all need to lay off the hyperbole.


Far from slave labor ? You obviously never had a deep meaningful conversation with your uberX driver, or perhaps you're one of those guys who just remains silent during the ride because he/she is not worth your time. If cab drivers get tipped for the same distance but nearly double the price, then it's only common sense and decency to tip your uber driver. No tip you say&#8230;well then make sure to load and unload your own bags or luggage without scuffing or scratching the vehicle, dare not ask for water or mints or gum etc&#8230;and keep your hands off the radio. It seems the lower the rates become the more self entitled these uber pax become


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## There’s no need to tip

tommyboy said:


> The problem is we are grossly underpaid. This situation can't last something got to give anybody have any idea on rectifying this situation please enlightened us,we need the advice.I will drive 40 hours this week for 200 take home.Thats not enough money. Soon as I find a better deal I'm gone. There are easier ways to make money with a car


I hate to tell you but there are plenty of people in this country (and elsewhere) that feel they are underpaid. They have the same options as you do. 1. Attempt to get better wage from employer themselves, 2. form a union and collectively try to get a better wage, 3. get a second job, 4. get a different job, 5. do absolutely nothing about the situation. The situation sucks but unfortunately there are too many people choosing option 5. Continuing with a job that is unprofitable, and is actually losing drivers money (as claimed by some), can't be the best option. As to what you should do, I don't have a vested interest so I have not really sat down and thought about it. However, there are thousands of you guys. I'm sure some of you have generated some legitimately good ideas while many others would unfortunately rather just complain about the passengers not tipping when using a non-tipping platform.



21stcenturyslavery said:


> Far from slave labor ? You obviously never had a deep meaningful conversation with your uberX driver, or perhaps you're one of those guys who just remains silent during the ride because he/she is not worth your time. If cab drivers get tipped for the same distance but nearly double the price, then it's only common sense and decency to tip your uber driver. No tip you say&#8230;well then make sure to load and unload your own bags or luggage without scuffing or scratching the vehicle, dare not ask for water or mints or gum etc&#8230;and keep your hands off the radio. It seems the lower the rates become the more self entitled these uber pax become


I have explained the position several times. Saying it is slave labor is hyperbole. I'm not going to go into the obvious reasons again. Is it a shitty exploitive situation, yes. Is it "slave labor," no.

I sometimes speak to the driver but many times I do not. It all depends on my mood or time of day. My airport runs are usually pretty early and I'm not interested in speaking. It isn't because the driver "isn't worth my time" it is because I just don't feel like speaking to a stranger (or anyone) at that moment. As for "common sense" to pay more money when unnecessary I say it is the exact opposite. It is common sense to NOT tip for a service that explicitly advertises no tipping involved. Stop comparing it to other things. Uber has NEVER compared itself to cabs and has done everything to differentiate itself from them. It has always been tip cab, no tip Uber whether the drivers like it or not.

As to the statement above, If you've read any of my posts around here you would know that I am not opposed to a TRUE tip, rather a tip masquerading as a replacement wage. I have said many times if the driver goes above and beyond for me I have no problem giving a little extra. I personally don't find myself in that situation though. I don't partake in mints/gum/water/charger but if I did I would show my appreciation. I personally don't mind, and actually prefer to, handle my own bags and open my own door. Pull up, I'm waiting outside, stay in the car and pop the trunk, I'm all good. I'm not a problem passenger. No inaccurate pins, no waiting, no messes, no demands, just get me from point A to point B (never 3 blocks) without long hauling me and I'm good. I agree with you that other passengers that expect more without shelling out are dicks, even when using the Uber platform. It is still a service position that deserves a tip when EARNED. For someone like me that only requires basic service, I don't feel my driver has done anything to EARN a tip and therefore I don't provide one. If the wage is not enough to support him I agree that sucks, but it isn't my fault he chooses to continue doing so and I'm not going to feel guilty about it.

Many of the drivers here say things like "keep not tipping and there will be no drivers for Uber" and "don't start tipping us and the price of the service will just increase anyway so you might as well tip now and have some control" so on and so forth and my response to that is GOOD. Let it happen. That is the market meeting demand. If that time comes, I will reevaluate my usage. If I find I'm waiting too long for a car, or the service costs too much, I will make an informed decision for myself whether to continue using it or look for other options.


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## albertphx

While i do think drivers should receive tips just like any other service profession. I am ok with pax not tipping if the fare gets me $7 or more for the trip....after ubers cut, but before gas,car depreciation ,etc After all, we are not forced to be drivers for Uber. I do think though that eventually the quality of the ride will decrease, since the type of money drivers make now is very low. 
My gripe is with the pax that calls for the 2 mile rides, makes the driver wait, or needs extra service,etc and doesn't bother to give the driver anything extra. They cost others to lose money picking them up and least they can do is make it square. This is NOT an tip or anything extra.....its just being fair and not leeching off the drivers. 
I don't understand what the fuss is with some people on tipping. Maybe its hard for them to give away an few bucks voluntarily and they don't want
to appear cheap to others? Easier for them if its put into the price.


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## Lindsay3222

Do you do uber for a living?


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## Agent99

There's no need to tip said:


> How about this as a compromise? Uber adds the ability to tip into the app and at the end of every ride, it presents a prompt for a tip. However, on the preceding screen it has Uber's standard language regarding how a separate tip in not included in addition to the fare however it is not required etc... whatever the current language is as a result of the class action, and informs the passenger that the tip amount doesn't factor into the passenger rating and the driver does not see the amount, if any, left as a tip for any specific passenger. I think in that situation, everyone wins. However, I'm pretty sure that if Uber did that, all of you guys would still be whining and complaining about it.


 I went back and reread your posting. Am I correct that you actually suggested that the idea of Uber putting a tipping option into the app would be acceptable/reasonable to you?


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## Greguzzi

Agent99 said:


> I went back and reread your posting. Am I correct that you actually suggested that the idea of Uber putting a tipping option into the app would be acceptable/reasonable to you?


He still wouldn't tip, unless his friends were watching. He's a coward with plenty of principles, unless his friends are watching. LOL.


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## Agent99

Agent99 said:


> I went back and reread your posting. Am I correct that you actually suggested that the idea of Uber putting a tipping option into the app would be acceptable/reasonable to you?


 I just checked, and "There's No Need..." has not posted in the forum since July, 2016.


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## thedriverking

I love this subject, as both a passenger and a rider.

I'm one of the market of people who rarely keeps cash. I prefer Uber or Lyft over taxis, however Taxis and Lyft have options to tip from card and I almost always tip. 

Unless Uber offers this too, I'm not going to carry cash just to tip. It's just not going to happen. 

As a driver for Uber, it's always nice when people tip, but drivers should demand Uber have this option and not have the expectation that riders should carry cash for tipping.


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## Agent99

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but the original poster emphasized how he liked Uber because they are a cashless system. So it is interesting and ironic that Uber is once again moving the goalposts by starting to offer cash payments for driver services:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/11/uber-cash-payments-colorado-springs/


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## TedInTampa

There's no need to tip said:


> I generally don't dine alone in a sit down restaurant. Believe me, if I could socially get away with not tipping in a restaurant I would. I have full faith in my position but it isn't worth the social flack to push the point. I can't wait for waiters to be replaced by automated systems.


My sister-in-Law made less than minimum wage last week. $30 in 8 hours because her average tip as a server was under $2. She got many complements...and quit because she could make more at McDonald's. I spoke to a lady who cleans hotel rooms. They get paid per room, and in the slow seaon, there may not be many rooms. On that day, she cleaned 3 rooms, and did the laundry for $5 a room... 2.5 hours, $15. Every room I sleep in I plan on leaving $5, because the industry treats them poorly.

"If you don't like it, quit"... The most important feature for me as an Uber driver is the 100% flexibility. Some days I feel ill. Some days my family needs me home. Sometimes between customers I need to head to the restroom or grab a bite to eat. Many jobs I cannot do because of some health issues. I can Uber. I also think I should be paid more by Uber. If Uber increased their pay per mile and per minute 50%, then tips would not be needed. If they doubled it and guaranteed Lyft drivers could drive for them, then Lyft might not have any drivers left.


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