# Uber’s growth slowed as losses widen as they prepare IPO



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/11/14/uber-earnings-q3-2018-self-reported.html






Uber's losses ticked up to nearly $1 billion during the third quarter and annualized growth is continuing to slow, according to the private company's self-reported financials for Q3.

The news comes ahead of the company's anticipated IPO next year, which some bankers are saying could value the company at $120 billion, well over its last reported private valuation of $62 billion. The company's slowing growth could be attributed to Uber's rapidly diversifying business, including expansion in its food delivery service, Uber Eats, and new transportation offerings like bikes and scooters.

The numbers continues the slowing growth Uber has seen over the last two quarters. In Q2 Uber reported net revenue of $2.7 billion, up 51 percent from a year prior, and gross bookings of $12 billion, up 41 percent from a year prior.

The company also broke out some figures for Uber Eats to the press for the first time, saying it accounted for $2.1 billion in gross bookings in Q3. That's an increase of 150 percent from the same quarter a year ago, Uber says.

The company said its total costs and expenses were $3.7 billion in the third quarter, up from $3.5 billion in the prior quarter.

Uber is rapidly expanding its food delivery business and is investing in new mobility offerings like bikes and e-scooters. Last month Uber announced it would expand its food delivery business to cover 70 percent of the U.S. population. CEO Dara Khosrowshahi told CNBC at the time that Uber Eats growth ultimately drives growth back to Uber's ride-hailing business.

Uber CFO Nelson Chai told CNBC the company had another strong quarter for a business of its size and global scope. "As we look ahead to an IPO and beyond, we are investing in future growth across our platform, including in food, freight, electric bikes and scooters, and high-potential markets in India and the Middle East where we continue to solidify our leadership position," Chai said.

As it heads towards an IPO next year, Uber wants investors to know it's more than ride-hailing, but some bankers say that could make it harder tovalue the company in an IPO.

Here are the numbers:

Q3 revenue was $2.95 billion, up 38 percent from the same quarter last year.
Gross bookings, or the amount collected before payouts to drivers, came in at $12.7 billion, up 34 percent year over year.
Adjusted net loss widened in the third quarter to $939 million; it was $680 million in Q2.
Adjusted EBITDA loss for Q3 came in at $527 million, which is down 13 percent year over year, but up 24 percent since Q2.
Gross cash on hand decreased to $6.55 billion, down from $7.3 billion at the end of Q2.


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## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

The company revenue is up 38%....but its losses grew because its investing in other business like eats and scooter etc....hard to see how they are doing in USA since they dont break out these numbers...what drivers care about which is pay is a needle in this enormous haystack....


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

BurgerTiime said:


> Gross bookings, or the amount collected _before _payouts to drivers, came in at $12.7 billion, up 34 percent year over year.


Uber accountants are scrutinizing this item to more efficiently increase their profitability.
In other words, get ready for another driver rate cut!


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

the more they lose, the more they think they're worth


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/category/uber


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## polar2017 (Jul 1, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> the more they lose, the more they think they're worth


The IPO will a life jacket.
527 million net loss ebita.
Can only imagine how the conversation goes in the executive board room.
Dara gets message that SoftBank left 2 messages this morning. Dara responds to tell them scooters & bikes are going to be noted as our long term focus.
SoftBank - Clark get in here. Dara is tossing poop on the walls again, scooters & bikes.


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## Travis Alex (Jan 14, 2018)

You know, I find it interesting that Uber wants to invest so heavily into the scooter and bike rental market, when for some reason, I feel like they don't realize that there are parts of the country that have inclimate weather, making the renting of electric scooters quite difficult when it's 21 degrees outside and 8 inches of snow are on the way. 

See: All of the upper east coast metropolitan cities.


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## polar2017 (Jul 1, 2017)

Travis Alex said:


> You know, I find it interesting that Uber wants to invest so heavily into the scooter and bike rental market, when for some reason, I feel like they don't realize that there are parts of the country that have inclimate weather, making the renting of electric scooters quite difficult when it's 21 degrees outside and 8 inches of snow are on the way.
> 
> See: All of the upper east coast metropolitan cities.


One must ask what percent of the population wants to rent a scooter or bike. Maybe this is what the usa population needs & just does not know it yet.
How many markets have an actual demand too.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

Uber has about 3,000,000 drivers world wide. Why would a company want to continually screw the faces of their brand? Forcing drivers into driving for losses, at times, seems really short-sighted. I'd rather have 3,000,000 happy drivers that double as ad people. Uber obviously took the hate the driver approach. The 180 days of change (not) is proof of that.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

With the USPS losing another $2.7 billion this year I'm predicting by next year we will have Uber Postal.

Hey, check out this. Drivers will now get an extra $.47 for delivering this month's issue of BIG 'UNS to some lonely pervert.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Travis Alex said:


> You know, I find it interesting that Uber wants to invest so heavily into the scooter and bike rental market, when for some reason, I feel like they don't realize that there are parts of the country that have inclimate weather, making the renting of electric scooters quite difficult when it's 21 degrees outside and 8 inches of snow are on the way.
> 
> See: All of the upper east coast metropolitan cities.


You should see all our beautiful brand new bike lanes that are empty 7 months out of the year in Seattle bc of shit weather. ****ing morons


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

polar2017 said:


> One must ask what percent of the population wants to rent a scooter or bike. Maybe this is what the usa population needs & just does not know it yet.
> How many markets have an actual demand too.


Well the cost for them to own the scooter is relatively low compared to vehicles.



heynow321 said:


> You should see all our beautiful brand new bike lanes that are empty 7 months out of the year in Seattle bc of shit weather. @@@@ing morons


Don't need to. We have pointless bike lanes in NYC as well. Neighborhoods I legit never even seen a bicycle.


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

Uber loses 8 cents for every dollar it collects from customers.
Uber lights $120 on fire every second.
Uber's growth in gross bookings has gone from parabolic to linear quite quickly (gross bookings 34% yr to yr). Its beginning to flat line.
Uber's office/operations expenses are increasing at a 10% rate.
Uber will run out of cash in 16 months.
Uber's optimistic plan provided to junk bondholders is that it will break even for the first time in 36 months.
Uber claims growth will occur because of scooter and bicycle rentals and a disastrous food delivery scheme.
Uber claims robot cars will someday be cheaper to buy, own, operate, maintain than drivers making nickels.

But don't worry investors, its worth $120 billion because ?


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

So many possibilities. So few successes.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

EZ peasy plan to profits.

Raise X rates & driver pay 50%.
Remove pool & Ignore the bus crowd
Highly incentivise full time ants to get commercial insurance.
Move away from the top 5 most expensive city on the planet.
Stop investing in the SDC money pit, just steal the tech Travis Kalanick style.


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> EZ peasy plan to profits.
> 
> Raise X rates & driver pay 50%.
> Remove pool & Ignore the bus crowd
> ...


1. They want to lower driver pay not raise it (The less they pay you the more they make).
2. They believe they will be saved by the Poo. If Poo works its 2 fares collected but only one driver to pay.
3. You got one. If they return to commercial vehicles drivers have to cover their own insurance. Uber loses a billion a quarter. Uber pays a billion a quarter for insurance. This one move would break them even.
4. The expensive cities were the original business model (Uber Black). The expensive cities are where the customers pay the most. But you think that Uber Omaha is profitable and Uber NYC is not???
5. I have no clue why Travis (and Lyft, DiDi, etc) are convinced robot cars need to be created by rideshare companies. My understanding is Dara intended to shut it down when he took the job and then Uber execs convinced him to drink the koolaid. These guys believe something that I (and you) do not see, but they have more information than us.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

BurgerTiime said:


> https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/11/14/uber-earnings-q3-2018-self-reported.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Meanwhile
DRIVER EXPENSES HAVE DOUBLED.

DRIVER PROFITS ARE DOWN 50% !

UNSUSTAINABLE !



BurgerTiime said:


> https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/11/14/uber-earnings-q3-2018-self-reported.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Meanwhile
DRIVER EXPENSES HAVE DOUBLED.

DRIVER PROFITS ARE DOWN 50% !

UNSUSTAINABLE !

Driver Retention BELOW 4% !


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Meanwhile
> DRIVER EXPENSES HAVE DOUBLED.
> 
> DRIVER PROFITS ARE DOWN 50% !
> ...


If you don't take car depreciation and maintenance into consideration and drive surge only it's not a bad gig.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

heynow321 said:


> https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/category/uber


It's great to see that at least some of the Wall Street prognosticators are seeing Uber for what it is, a investor and driver con game. Only a few at the top will walk away rich. Can't wait to see Travis Kalanick and his ticks on a future episode of American Greed.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Cigars said:


> 5. I have no clue why Travis (and Lyft, DiDi, etc) are convinced robot cars need to be created by rideshare companies. My understanding is Dara intended to shut it down when he took the job and then Uber execs convinced him to drink the koolaid. These guys believe something that I (and you) do not see, but they have more information than us.


This is a good question I'll attempt to answer:
The rideshare companies probably know the won't finish the race to design the ultimate SDC that everybody wants, but they have a unique advantage whereas they can raise tons of quick cash from their ants who churn vehicle-depreciation into earnings used by the tech companies to fund massive amounts of research & development that is "written off" while at the same time piling up a ton of patents that have value and can be sold off to the highest bidder. 
Remember the guy who first patented "intermittent" windshield wipers? These unique patents have a lot a value that make people rich.


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> This is a good question I'll attempt to answer:
> The rideshare companies probably know the won't finish the race to design the ultimate SDC that everybody wants, but they have a unique advantage whereas they can raise tons of quick cash from their ants who churn vehicle-depreciation into earnings used by the tech companies to fund massive amounts of research & development that is "written off" while at the same time piling up a ton of patents that have value and can be sold off to the highest bidder.
> Remember the guy who first patented "intermittent" windshield wipers? These unique patents have a lot a value that make people rich.


Something is only "written off" if you have profits.
I made $1 but then spent $1 in R and D, means my profit was $0 and I don't pay taxes on that $1.

I cannot imagine how all these people trying to produce economically viable robot cars expect theirs to be the one.

But the patents make sense to me. Somewhere on Uber's books these are "valued".
Also, somewhere there is a "value" given for their share of ownership in Grab, Yandex, DiDi, Fair.com.
These are Uber's biggest disasters and somehow they came away with an "asset". I would be curious to see how they "value" these "assets".


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Cigars said:


> 5. I have no clue why Travis (and Lyft, DiDi, etc) are convinced robot cars need to be created by rideshare companies. My understanding is Dara intended to shut it down when he took the job and then Uber execs convinced him to drink the koolaid. These guys believe something that I (and you) do not see, but they have more information than us.


i can answer that for you. they need their sci fi fantasy units to con stupid investors into giving them more money. when you look at the "business" of sdc's, they love to throw around yuge numbers. they say shit like "the market could be worth $10 trillion!". it helps keep up the illusion that boober is some kind of "tech" company when in reality they're just a taxi operation. it's just a con.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

at this point, the people at the top that still own uber stock know that uber will never make money and are just trying to get to the ipo so they can cash out


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

heynow321 said:


> https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/category/uber


Thanks for that link.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Cigars said:


> Something is only "written off" if you have profits. I made $1 but then spent $1 in R and D, means my profit was $0 and I don't pay taxes on that $1.


Henceforth the "write off." It's a win situation for Uber: Ant depreciates his car worthiness and gives it to Uber, Uber takes that money and burns it up as fast as possible, writing off the R&D while at the same time padding their patents.


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## fumbl3 (May 11, 2018)

Another article on the money bonfire: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/11/ubers-quarterly-losses-reach-1-1-billion-in-third-quarter/


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

> "We had another strong quarter for a business of our size and global scope," said Chief Financial Officer Nelson Chai. "As we look ahead to an IPO and beyond, we are investing in future growth across our platform, including in food, freight, electric bikes and scooters, and high-potential markets in India and the Middle East where we continue to solidify our leadership position."


That's basically all they care about, getting to that IPO so they have plenty of money to blow. It's going to be a major wake up call when they realize nobody wants their stock.

Not sure I ever seen another company in history looking forward to an IPO after years of major losses with no profit in sight.


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

If you’re losing $1.33 for every $1 you earn then maybe expanding into new markets isn’t your best practice.. all you’re going to do is raise your quarterly loss amount and burn faster through that reserve cash.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Cigars said:


> 5. I have no clue why Travis (and Lyft, DiDi, etc) are convinced robot cars need to be created by rideshare companies. My understanding is Dara intended to shut it down when he took the job and then Uber execs convinced him to drink the koolaid. These guys believe something that I (and you) do not see, but they have more information than us.


Consider this:
Uber sells each individual self-driving car to a private investor in return for some contracted arrangement on revenue sharing from said vehicle when Uber puts it into service. Uber agrees to maintain, service and fuel each vehicle over its useful life.

Uber profits from this how?
1. From the markup on the original sale of the vehicle (like a car dealership)
2. From the fuel sales (like a gas station)at an Uber approved station
3. From tire sales, brake jobs, oil changes, and various repairs (like a mechanic shop) at an Uber approved shop
4. From 24X7 use (as opposed to safety mandated driver time restraints)
5. From the actual fares generated (like they do now)
6. From having no capital investment cost itself in the SDC. There would not even be a capital investment cost associated with fuel stations or service centers assuming these would be contractually arranged between Uber and various currently existing national companies.

I can see where this could be a good deal from Uber's point of view, but perhaps not so good from a Uber car buyer's point of view.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

sdc's are not a thing. they will not be a thing. stop trying to make them a thing. they especially won't be a thing coming from boober.


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## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> sdc's are not a thing. they will not be a thing. stop trying to make them a thing. they especially won't be a thing coming from boober.


I can see SDC maybe in congested markets like NYC.....but this will not work in markets where people actually own cars....people are not ready to give up car ownership...SDC are way way into the future....this will only work when the government makes car ownership illegal...you cant have both private cars and SDC sharing the road...


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

heynow321 said:


> sdc's are not a thing. they will not be a thing. stop trying to make them a thing. they especially won't be a thing coming from boober.


Not trying to make them "a thing". I was merely pointing out motives as to why Uber seems to be pursuing the idea.


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## Lawlet91 (Jun 8, 2017)

luckytown said:


> I can see SDC maybe in congested markets like NYC.....but this will not work in markets where people actually own cars....people are not ready to give up car ownership...SDC are way way into the future....this will only work when the government makes car ownership illegal...you cant have both private cars and SDC sharing the road...


Sdc in a congested city like NYC is where they are the most impossible to operate, too many moving parts and random actions and pedestrians. The only place sdc might work is in sparsely populated areas and roads so they have less likelihood to need to react to situations that arise


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## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

Lawlet91 said:


> Sdc in a congested city like NYC is where they are the most impossible to operate, too many moving parts and random actions and pedestrians. The only place sdc might work is in sparsely populated areas and roads so they have less likelihood to need to react to situations that arise


 NYC is where SDC make sence.....no one in the city owns cars and mass transportation is common use....when the city makes car ownership illegal and gets rid of private cars the sdc will cover the slack.....NYC is already thinking of charging more fees to travel below 92Nd street to deter people from driving thier own cars....they want mass transportation....subways and SDC that pool pax...in the rural areas no will order SDC to go fishing and hunting and shoping....they will drive thier big 4x4's and park where ever they want.......


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## Lawlet91 (Jun 8, 2017)

That’s the conundrum right there because if “no one in the city owns cars” and it already is a chaotic mess, what can sdcs add of value. All they will do is clog up already congested streets because they can’t figure out where they can safely move to. If sdcs came to the Orlando market you would see a crash a week on the news about them and were not even close to as congested as New York or Los Angeles.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

heynow321 said:


> sdc's are not a thing. they will not be a thing. stop trying to make them a thing.


Same thing the blacksmith declared while shoeing a horse as the horseless carriage puttered on down the dirt road.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Uber's Guber said:


> Same thing the blacksmith declared while shoeing a horse as the horseless carriage puttered on down the dirt road.


I tell you what kiddo, show us a video of a SDC entering a freeway, driving on said freeway, exiting onto another freeway, then exiting onto city streets. I'll give you the benefit of all perfect weather. We're all eagerly waiting.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

The emperor has no clothes. Just some dirty underwear they’ll be trying to sell the public soon.


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## 404NofFound (Jun 13, 2018)

A company will value its shareholders like they do their employees and contractors.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

404NofFound said:


> A company will value its shareholders like they do their employees and contractors.


A bunch of suckers to rip off?

I thought that was a given at this point.

To be honest... i think the investors are getting a worse deal than the drivers are.


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## Workforfood (May 12, 2018)

In order for a company to initiate an IPO they must have an independent audit. Don't think they have done that.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

*No profit? No problem. Investors keep snapping up loss-making companies*
*https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/29/no-...wing-appetite-for-unprofitable-companies.html*


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Lawlet91 said:


> Sdc in a congested city like NYC is where they are the most impossible to operate, too many moving parts and random actions and pedestrians. The only place sdc might work is in sparsely populated areas and roads so they have less likelihood to need to react to situations that arise


But that's the problem:the places where people don't own cars are not SDC friendly and the places that are, everyone owns a car and likely are less likely to use any sort of car service.

Other than airport trips, most uber trips are relatively short. If you live anywhere but close to your work, commuting via anything but your own car or public transportation becomes cost prohibitive, even at uber rates.

The only places where SDCs might work, they're not needed, and the places they're needed, they won't work.



Uber's Guber said:


> Same thing the blacksmith declared while shoeing a horse as the horseless carriage puttered on down the dirt road.


They may be a thing in 30 years. The technology is not moving as quickly as some folks think.

Look at how long cars only ran by combustion engine. And most still do. We've had that same tech for over 100 years now. Only recently have electric cars become a "thing."

Cars and horses shared roads for many years. A lot of horses died (and the riders on those horses and in the cars). We have the same incompatibility issue with cars that are driven and SDCs. Not to mention cyclists and pedestrians. How much carnage are we willing to put up with until the last driven car leaves the road? Our life expectancy is twice what it was then and there was no TV to spread the news of each accident.

We already have planes that can fly themselves. Why do they have pilots then? Because things go wrong. Unexpected things happen.

We still have human beings on trains. Why? They're on tracks for crying out loud. If we can't even get that right, what makes you thing an SDC on a street with something unexpected happening will always react correctly?

https://abc13.com/traffic/timeline-houston-drivers-dodge-4-loose-spools-on-freeways/4855295/


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> We still have human beings on trains. Why? They're on tracks for crying out loud. If we can't even get that right, what makes you thing an SDC on a street with something unexpected happening will always react correctly?


Ironically, all the train accidents continue to be caused by "human error."
Too many "idiot drivers" on the road is one of the incentives that is pushing the need & desire for SDC's.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Uber's Guber said:


> Ironically, all the train accidents continue to be caused by "human error."
> Too many "idiot drivers" on the road is one of the incentives that is pushing the need & desire for SDC's.


most of the deaths in the train industry are suicides, that an idiots who get stuck on tracks because they pulled up too far when stopped at a crossing.










Then you have idiot train operators doing stuff like texting while operating a train.

Occasionally you also have equipment failure

And finally you have acts of God..zilla









Truthfully self driving cars could prevent a great number of train accidents...

Protecting idiots from themselves, the nanny state must come in... we all know these idiots need SOMEONE to step in.

If we won't protect these idiots who will?

Or maybe it would be better to hand out more darwin awards?


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