# Why do we expect tips?



## Geno71

Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...

When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.

I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.

Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


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## tohunt4me

Why do waiters and bartenders expect tips ?


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## ChortlingCrison

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


 I don't expect them, but I certainly "appreciate" them. Also waiter(esses) get paid below minimum wage, because they work for tips. I don't call that entitlement.


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## ChortlingCrison

tohunt4me said:


> Why do waiters and bartenders expect tips ?


 Give the OP some time to mull that one over.


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## tohunt4me

At least we don't put visine in non tippers drinks . . .


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## UberAnt39

ChortlingCrison said:


> Give the OP some time to mull that one over.


Why do Uber employees keep creating new IDs here? Where does their sense of entitlement come from?


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## mrpjfresh

I don't get bent out of shape for not getting tips, but can you blame people for expecting them? As drivers, we are in the service industry and, typically speaking, are underpaid if you do not take advantage of the gimmick surge pricing; if you live in America (idk, do you?), it is customary to tip these type of workers, whether you agree with this practice or not. While most businesses seem perfectly happy to let their patrons subsidize their servers for a living wage, Uber took the stance that tipping was not needed yet still slashed many drivers pay to minimum wage or below with regular rates. Also consider that it is common etiquette to tip livery drivers who make _more _but _not_ rideshare drivers who essentially provide the exact same service. And you wonder why that would piss someone off??

Look, I think the entire concept of tipping as a crutch to underpay your workers is a ridiculous system and should absolutely be done away with. I'd be perfectly happy with a higher flat pay and you can just do away with tips and even surge (or at least rework it). Heck, even a dollar or two "gas fee" that goes straight to the driver which would be a great alternative to tipping. Only for the driver (or waiter or bellhop or whomever) that truly goes above and beyond should get a tip.

I only agree that we knew exactly what to expect when we signed up. If anyone does not like the system as is, there are loads of other jobs out there available for those who would work them. It is only when Uber (or whichever company) alienates their workforce to such an extent that there is a mass exodus or only the bottom of the barrel left working that they will be forced to be introspective about their decisions regarding pay, tipping and driver treatment.


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## Geno71

Saying "we work hard and Uber doesn't pay us enough" sounds like entitlement to me. Waiters and bartenders work on a different pay system, people working at McDonnalds make more per hour from the company than a waiter at a nice restaurant or a bartender at the club, they expected to be paid tips to actually make money and it's a motivator to do a better job. As Uber drivers, no one seems to feel motivated to do anything above the very minimum, am I wrong?

So let me say this again, I don't have anything against getting a tip. It feels good, sure. And sometimes it's stupid, I even talked in some of my posts about being tipped or not, like a guy who was a waiter and spent 10 minutes telling me how important tips are in his honest opinion and that he will make damn sure he'll tip me in the Uber app. I just laughed and wished he wouldn't talk about it at all. What I don't get it this sense of "a pax are a-holes, they don't tip, I rate them 1 for that..." The waiter guy still got a 5 from me, I probably should have tipped him (to be fair, I think he just didn't realize Uber app didn't have the option).

I don't hate tips, I love them. I'm not arguing against tips, I'm arguing against people that feel like they always deserve tips. You know who you are.

P.S. Was the Uber employee comment for me?


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## steveK2016

ChortlingCrison said:


> Give the OP some time to mull that one over.


http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter/Waitress/Hourly_Rate

Because on average, wait staff get paid significantly less than minimum wage and truly rely on tips to make ends meat.

While I'd love to get tipped more, and I do get tipped often enough, I know my base earnings before tips is far greater than that of the average wait staff.


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## Tnasty

It's the insult that is Fuber,they cheapened an industry down to a gig,side hustle,to people just doing this for fun.Start going to restaurants and when tip time comes,leave your Uber coupon card as a tip!


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## Shangsta

I dont demand tips but I appreciate them. We are providing a service. Taxi and shuttle drivers get tips as well.


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## Maksim

I would not rate a passenger a 1 star for not tipping but...

Taxicabs get tips
Car service gets tips
Limo drivers get tips...

Why shouldn't an uber driver making $8 an hour not get tips?

As others said, when UBER can in, rates were worthwhile.

Since dropping rates.... it is a min wage job.

What are tips for? I think an UBER driver who provides a clean car, safe driving and a good chat deserves a TIP more than a waiter who screws up your order and doesn't give a rats ass about you.

Tips are there to reward good to great service.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Back when Uber started, tips weren't necessary, 

Now there's just no making ends meet in most markets doing this,

The tips i get doing the taxi game often EXCEED the entire uberX fare for the same trip.

It's not like they couldn't charge the nearly the same rates as taxis and get away with it.

But what Am i saying, it's not like The Orlando area has 6 theme parks, 4 water parks, one of the top convention centers in the world, and 160 hotels (on just one road) feeding the tourist industry out here.


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## Aaron Beauchamp

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


I agree with you, that we shouldn't expect tips. Tips are not mandatory. when I get them, that's great, but I don't solicit for them. I totally am on board with you.

What irks me is that Uber not only doesn't provide a tip option on their app, but indirectly discourages it. Now, that's total bunk.


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## jonhjax

Working for uber you make more than minimum wage? Not in my market. Is 1000 miles a week a good start for full time drivers? I'll go ahead and use this mileage amount to make a point. The uber x rate here is $.75 per mile. Take 25% from that and you get $.575 per mile. The IRS mileage deduction is $.54 per mile, right? $.575-$.54=$.035 per mile and $.035×1000=$35.00. That's $35.00 per 1000 miles. That is less than minimum wage, right?


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## jonhjax

Excuse me, my math is wrong. Uber pays drivers here $.5625 per mile base wage. That comes out to $26.25 per mile . Still less than minimum wage.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Geno71 said:


> Saying "we work hard and Uber doesn't pay us enough" sounds like entitlement to me. Waiters and bartenders work on a different pay system, people working at McDonnalds make more per hour from the company than a waiter at a nice restaurant or a bartender at the club, they expected to be paid tips to actually make money and it's a motivator to do a better job. As Uber drivers, no one seems to feel motivated to do anything above the very minimum, am I wrong?


So saying we work hard and uber doesn't pay us enough is entitlement, but for waiters and bartenders they expect to actually make money and tips are a motivator to do a better job?

How are WE entitled, but waiters and bartenders are not? Many uber drivers are making less than minimum wage, AND they are providing a $20,000 piece of equipment to do it.

How much would bartenders gripe if they got very few tips AND had to buy the equipment used in the bar?

And yes, uber drivers are not very motivated to do much above minimum, but that's not why we don't get tips, the lack of tips is why many are NOT motivated. I can bend over backwards for pax and 90+% still don't tip, so no, I'm not motivated to do it.

It's the same reason I'll be nice as pie to someone on a long surge trip, but am barely polite to someone on a trip I'm making less than $3.

If pax tipped roitinely, and were likely to tip more every time a driver had water and mints, or went through a drive thru, or waited for them to get ready, or drove them to an area the driver would be deadheading back, drivers would rarely refuse to do any of those things. They wouldn't call for destination, many would provide amenities, they wouldn't refuse to wait...

Service would immediately improve. And if 95% of pax tipped, low rating them for NOT tipping would quickly decimate their rating, and non tippers would truly have trouble getting a ride.

Most drivers don't downrate non tippers because it's do many of them. If tipping were the usual, instead of the exception, non tippers would be treated like the bums they are: you might pick them up if it's slow or you want to see if you can get back to another area, but they would be the pax thst you refuse to do anything extra for. Right now ALL the pax suffer because few tip. If most tipped, only the non tippers would get lousy service.


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## FL_Dex

When Uber first started the driver pay was higher and tipping really wasn't necessary. Since then Uber has increased their take and cut rates. The company's evolution on cutting driver compensation was very fast, reversing their stance on tipping was very slow and lukewarm at best. 

Right now drivers are not being compensated at rates that reflect the actual expense of operating a car. Tips are how you bridge that gap in the service industry. 

I had a pax last night, a flight attendant for Jet Blue, who took me 40 minutes out of a profitable area to the middle of nowhere and a guaranteed deadhead back to civilization. Personally, I think that rated a $10 minimum for a tip but she just walked off. She was nice, so that's a choice between 2* and 3*. I gave her 3* because she was at least personable. Another guy going 35 minutes the other way wanted a custom route and a stop at McDonalds drive through. That should be an automatic $5. He thought giving me a 5* was enough of a tip. 2* for him. 

Most pax get it. They look at what they're paying and understand drivers can't be making shit at those rates. Sometimes they duck out because they don't have any cash, I cut them some slack. Other times they are the merely thoughtless mixed in with a few who are just being a-holes. The thoughtless and the dicks get low ratings and I sleep just fine.


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## Wardell Curry

I don't expect tips anymore because I know most pax are cheap and refuse to pay extra for good service. This is why I provide basic service. Arrive at pickup, wait for pax, drive to destination and that's it. If a passenger wants to talk I will talk. Otherwise, I just listen to my music quietly which works for me. It is a lot better than providing excellent service and then repeatedly getting shafted with no tip.


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## Back it up Uber

FL_Dex said:


> When Uber first started the driver pay was higher and tipping really wasn't necessary. Since then Uber has increased their take and cut rates. The company's evolution on cutting driver compensation was very fast, reversing their stance on tipping was very slow and lukewarm at best.
> 
> Right now drivers are not being compensated at rates that reflect the actual expense of operating a car. Tips are how you bridge that gap in the service industry.
> 
> I had a pax last night, a flight attendant for Jet Blue, who took me 40 minutes out of a profitable area to the middle of nowhere and a guaranteed deadhead back to civilization. Personally, I think that rated a $10 minimum for a tip but she just walked off. She was nice, so that's a choice between 2* and 3*. I gave her 3* because she was at least personable. Another guy going 35 minutes the other way wanted a custom route and a stop at McDonalds drive through. That should be an automatic $5. He thought giving me a 5* was enough of a tip. 2* for him.
> 
> Most pax get it. They look at what they're paying and understand drivers can't be making shit at those rates. Sometimes they duck out because they don't have any cash, I cut them some slack. Other times they are the merely thoughtless mixed in with a few who are just being a-holes. The thoughtless and the dicks get low ratings and I sleep just fine.


You need to stop driving immediately! This job is definitely not for you. Guy gives you a $5 tip and you rate him a 2? Lol wow


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## Wardell Curry

Back it up Uber said:


> You need to stop driving immediately! This job is definitely not for you. Guy gives you a $5 tip and you rate him a 2? Lol wow


I think he meant rider gives him a 5 star rating , not 5 dollars.


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## Back it up Uber

Wardell Curry said:


> I think he meant driver gives him a 5 star rating , not 5 dollars.


Ahhh.. you're right, just went back and read it again.


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## UberChicago80

Tip me so I can upgrade my extra value meal


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## Geno71

Goes both ways. So they say "why should I do anything above the absolute minimum, people don't tip anyway"" and on the other hand riders are saying "why should we tip for this absolute minimum service?"

The analogy with bartenders don't work. A bartender gets way less than minimum wage from their employer. A better one will be comparing yourself to a McDonalds worker, if you feel like you get minimum wage, then people don't tip. Then face it guys, we're the fast food of transportation, right? Accept it or move on to something else.

Actually on most days I clear around $18-20 per hour, that's before my expenses and taxes of course, but many people, even working minimum wage jobs still get taxed withheld from their $8 per hour too, and have to get to work and possibly other expenses. IDK about everyone, but I definitely not a minimum wage worker when I drive with Uber.

This might be completely different for full time drivers that drive for Uber and Lyft as their main source of income. If that's the case, I think you should be looking for a normal job, Uber should not be anyone's main job. I drive part time, 6-7 hours on Friday and Saturday, I do about 25 rides per weekend, average around 250 miles per weekend and about $250-260 (that's my goal). I figured that's average of $10 per ride, $1 per mile (including unpaid miles). Any tips that I get is a nice little extra on top of that, I never mention them and never worry about getting them or not.


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## hulksmash

I think driver complaints come from the fact that Uber is the only provider in the service industry known to man that actively discourages tipping and does not provide a convenient way to do so. They basically tell drivers "don't accept tips unless they really wanna give it to you, then only take it reluctantly" and pax "you know, you really don't have to tip, our drivers make enough, even without surge" Lyft and other service providers tell customers "tips for excellent service are certainly not required but greatly appreciated"

Why do bartenders and waiters get tips? Because owners know society expects customers to tip these people so they take advantage by paying them less. 

Uber either thinks drivers don't have expenses, or they knowingly pay less than minimum wage but don't welcome tips. Other livery drivers make more for the same job but get tips. Shuttle drivers get a guaranteed wage and don't bear vehicle expenses and get tips. Drivers just want a fair chance of getting tips by encouraging Tips and providing a function to do so on the app


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## Geno71

hulksmash said:


> I think driver complaints come from the fact that Uber is the only provider in the service industry known to man that actively discourages tipping and does not provide a convenient way to do so. They basically tell drivers "don't accept tips unless they really wanna give it to you, then only take it reluctantly" and pax "you know, you really don't have to tip, our drivers make enough, even without surge" Lyft and other service providers tell customers "tips for excellent service are certainly not required but greatly appreciated"
> 
> Why do bartenders and waiters get tips? Because owners know society expects customers to tip these people so they take advantage by paying them less.
> 
> Uber either thinks drivers don't have expenses, or they knowingly pay less than minimum wage but don't welcome tips. Other livery drivers make more for the same job but get tips. Shuttle drivers get a guaranteed wage and don't bear vehicle expenses and get tips. Drivers just want a fair chance of getting tips by encouraging Tips and providing a function to do so on the app


Ok maybe that's how it used to be with Uber, but they're now clearly say that tips are welcome to both riders and drivers. Of course it's not going to change anything after years of promoting "no tips required", but their support articles on tipping now say they're always welcome and drivers will be happy to accept them.

Why are you saying they pay less than minimum wage? Is Uber your only job?


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## Steven Ambrose

I do not expect anything from anyone, although this week saw a major jump in tips and the night shift is yielding a lot more. 

To make it clear, my life goes on whether someone tips me or not. However, just like the case I posted in a prior thread, I do not appreciate or respect someone that laughs about not tipping me. I get it a-hole, you do not have to tip me, but don't rub my face in it. No one likes that attitude and no one respects or appreciates a schmuck. I can deal with someone stating that they do not carry cash, but have some class and just state that. Don't giggle and laugh about not tipping because then you are just a patronizing POS and I want nothing to do with you.


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## DollarStoreChauffeur

Why? Because the base fares are an absolute ripoff to drive for.


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## u-Boat

Geno71 said:


> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


It's pretty simple. Drivers will stop *****ing about no tips and low pay when uBer either raises rates or allows drivers to set their own rates. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. Where does uBer's sense of entitlement come from?


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## simpsonsverytall

We are expected to provide not only a (functional)* utility *(point 'A' to point 'B' safely, and relatively punctual),
but also expected to provide a (customer) *service* of providing a clean, friendly environment(ranging from a smile and small talk, to an aux cord/music and a bottled water), as well as expected to assist with(ie 'carry') luggage or shopping items. In addition to such customer service, there are also occasionally situations in which a _skilled _driver can go beyond safety and relative punctuality, and actually make the ride comfortable, time _saving_, and _more _convenient.

The industry has developed a market rate that is based upon a base fare as well as a gratuity which considers service.
The Standard is Fifteen to twenty percent.

We are supposed to be getting 15-20% of every FARE.

Yet Uber has not only lowered the base rates(*utility*), they have all but eliminated the TIP(*service!*).
Yet we are EXPECTED TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE FOR FREE!?!? 

'A Closer Look'
Say we drive UberX 20 hours a week for 50 weeks a year, and we gross $15/hour driving:
$15 * 20 * 50 = *$15,000 SALARY*
Uber takes 25% Commission from our fares , We get 75%.
To find our Total Fares we have to _divide _our 'Gross Earnings' by 75%;
$15,000 / 0.75 = $20,000 = TOTAL FARES DRIVEN
15%TIP for $20K fares = *$3,000*

That $3,000 = 20% of $15,000 ! *one fifth of our earnings!!! 

*


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## Geno71

Maybe it's geographical thing, but minimum wage in Pittsburgh is $7.25 per hour, I easily make 2-3 times that on any average night with Uber or Lyft. If you're truly making that minimum wage of whatever it is in your area, then why are you wasting your time with Uber? I know I would not do it for $7.25. And remember, that's $7.25 before they pay their income tax and expenses. Even after I take out taxes, gas and other expenses, I'm left with over $10 per hour, and some tips. True minimum wage workers are left with like $4, and no tips.


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## steveK2016

jonhjax said:


> Working for uber you make more than minimum wage? Not in my market. Is 1000 miles a week a good start for full time drivers? I'll go ahead and use this mileage amount to make a point. The uber x rate here is $.75 per mile. Take 25% from that and you get $.575 per mile. The IRS mileage deduction is $.54 per mile, right? $.575-$.54=$.035 per mile and $.035×1000=$35.00. That's $35.00 per 1000 miles. That is less than minimum wage, right?


If you are actually spending all of the allotted $0.54 deduction on expenses, you are doing something significantly wrong. Using that allotment to showcase just a $35 profit in 1000 miles driven is a fallacy and shows you do not know what a deduction is. That just means you will only owe taxes on $35 rather than owe taxes on $575.

My car requires an oil change every 6000 miles. That oil change costs me $45 with free tire rotation, balancing and car detail. That's a costs of $0.0075 a mile. I get 20 MPG, so in that 1000 miles, I spent $0.102 a mile. Depreciation is hard to calculate, I bought used and bought at a great price. I don't put much more (maybe 30% more miles) per year than the average commuter.

And if you are NEVER driving during Surge, then you are again doing something wrong...

My car and insurance payments are covered by my full time job. Expenses I would have had without Ubering...

Uber was never meant to be a full time job. If you insist on putting a square peg in the circle hole, you're gonna have a bad time...


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## Geno71

"Where does uBer's sense of entitlement come from?"

They offer the platform that connects you with riders. You can go try to find your own clients and pay Uber absolutely zero, can you do that? Create your own app, promote it, put ads on social media and TV... you get the idea I hope.

"That $3,000 = 20% of $15,000 ! *one fifth of our earnings!!!"
*
That's what I said in my original post, no one ever* promised or even implied* that you will get ANY tips, yet you feel like you're being cheated out of fifth of your earnings.


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## hulksmash

Geno71 said:


> Ok maybe that's how it used to be with Uber, but they're now clearly say that tips are welcome to both riders and drivers. Of course it's not going to change anything after years of promoting "no tips required", but their support articles on tipping now say they're always welcome and drivers will be happy to accept them.
> 
> Why are you saying they pay less than minimum wage? Is Uber your only job?


No I have a full time job and only do it as a side gig. However, I only surpass minimum wage after expenses most nights because I stick to busy hours (read surge) hours, do XL, and follow advice from other posters here. If I drove the way Uber wanted me to, I'd miss out on a lot of $ even during these times.

Base rates here are .90 per mile .15 min. After 25% it's 67.5 and .1125 Say my vehicle costs .30c per mile to drive. If I drive 60 miles to a remote area that takes an hour each way and have to deadhead back, I've made $40.50 to drive 120 miles and 6.75 for 2 hours of my time. Those 120 miles cost me $36 to drive, so I'm left with 4.50 net for mileage and 6.75 for time for a total of 11.25 for 2 hours of work, or $5.63 per hour. Only way this becomes good money is if it's a one way trip near where you needed to be anyway, but usually that's not when you get these trips

As far as tipping, Uber could easily backup their new tipping stance by adding a tip function to the passenger app.


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## unPat

I don't ask tip for tips and don't expect it. And I won't rate people 1 for not tipping me. But uber explicitly says "tips are not expected and not required" which is not right. Let the passenger decide what they want to do with their money and allow a tipping option.


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## Do tell

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


You posted the funniest words I ever read on the internet.hahahahaha


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## steveK2016

hulksmash said:


> No I have a full time job and only do it as a side gig. However, I only surpass minimum wage after expenses most nights because I stick to busy hours (read surge) hours, do XL, and follow advice from other posters here. If I drove the way Uber wanted me to, I'd miss out on a lot of $ even during these times.
> 
> Base rates here are .90 per mile .15 min. After 25% it's 67.5 and .1125 Say my vehicle costs .30c per mile to drive. If I drive 60 miles to a remote area that takes an hour each way and have to deadhead back, I've made $40.50 to drive 120 miles and 6.75 for 2 hours of my time. Those 120 miles cost me $36 to drive, so I'm left with 4.50 net for mileage and 6.75 for time for a total of 11.25 for 2 hours of work, or $5.63 per hour. Only way this becomes good money is if it's a one way trip near where you needed to be anyway, but usually that's not when you get these trips
> 
> As far as tipping, Uber could easily backup their new tipping stance by adding a tip function to the passenger app.


What are you actually spending $360 for every 1200 miles driven?

I feel drivers are putting far too much weight and concern on depreciation then is actually true.

Let's say 1200 is for a week of driving....

So you really believe you spend $1440 a month, $17,280 a year in expenses for Uber? Even at severe depreciation, there's no way that would account for a $17,280 in expenses unless you are actually buying a new car every year to Uber...

Even if it's 1200 a month of driving...

That's $4320 in expenses yearly. That's 14,400 miles you've added to your vehicle that you otherwise wouldn't have put on there. If you are accounting most of that $4320 in depreciation, that would only make sense if you bought a brand new car with zero miles on it, in which case, that depreciation happened the second you drove off the lot and not from driving Uber...

A lot of doom and gloom with drivers on this board... if Uber is truly that bad, why continue?

If you are a part timer and have a full time job, you car and insurance expenses which you had before Uber cannot count towards your Ubering. Those are expenses you already had before and without Uber.... if you do account for Uber now having to cover your car and insurance expenses, well then that just freed up the same amount from your full time job... so net net, it evens out in the end...


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## Do tell

A new member asked the perfect troll question and you all took the bait.LOL


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## Do tell

Op asks,why do we expect tips?Answer,because we don't drive self-driving cars...............yet.lol


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## simpsonsverytall

Geno71 said:


> "Where does uBer's sense of entitlement come from?"
> 
> They offer the platform that connects you with riders. You can go try to find your own clients and pay Uber absolutely zero, can you do that? Create your own app, promote it, put ads on social media and TV... you get the idea I hope.
> 
> "That $3,000 = 20% of $15,000 ! *one fifth of our earnings!!!"
> *
> That's what I said in my original post, no one ever* promised or even implied* that you will get ANY tips, yet you feel like you're being cheated out of fifth of your earnings.


So true. Was simply explaining how Uber has changed the game - for drivers who think that by driving on the Uber app, that they have promised or implied to provide a taxi-like service to the passengers.

I personally agree with you, Geno:
1. Whenever convenient, I turn my app on an hour before I have to leave for my real job, or an hour before I plan to go run errands, visit friends etc.
2. I get a 'ping/request' and if the 'pick up location' is reasonably close, I call to find out where they are headed. 
3. If headed in my direction, I pick them up. 
4. I don't carry luggage, or attempt to provide any service. (not mean either, just relaxed and natural) 
5. If the fare is a high surge or a profitable opportunity, or an upfront tip, I'll take them to their 'Destination'. 
6. Otherwise, I drive toward my work, or my errands, and take them as far as possible along my route.
7. I stop in a safe location, and thank them, and instruct them to call another Uber to complete their trip.

It's a great platform that Uber offers. 
For as long as my account remains active, Uber basically pays for all my gas and maintenance.
Once in a while i get a large surge, and Uber pays for my errands or date as well.


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## Back it up Uber

Geno71 said:


> Goes both ways. So they say "why should I do anything above the absolute minimum, people don't tip anyway"" and on the other hand riders are saying "why should we tip for this absolute minimum service?"
> 
> The analogy with bartenders don't work. A bartender gets way less than minimum wage from their employer. A better one will be comparing yourself to a McDonalds worker, if you feel like you get minimum wage, then people don't tip. Then face it guys, we're the fast food of transportation, right? Accept it or move on to something else.
> 
> Actually on most days I clear around $18-20 per hour, that's before my expenses and taxes of course, but many people, even working minimum wage jobs still get taxed withheld from their $8 per hour too, and have to get to work and possibly other expenses. IDK about everyone, but I definitely not a minimum wage worker when I drive with Uber.
> 
> This might be completely different for full time drivers that drive for Uber and Lyft as their main source of income. If that's the case, I think you should be looking for a normal job, Uber should not be anyone's main job. I drive part time, 6-7 hours on Friday and Saturday, I do about 25 rides per weekend, average around 250 miles per weekend and about $250-260 (that's my goal). I figured that's average of $10 per ride, $1 per mile (including unpaid miles). Any tips that I get is a nice little extra on top of that, I never mention them and never worry about getting them or not.


You say we are more fast food type workers than bartenders because bartenders get paid a small wage, right?

I have worked part time as a pizza delivery driver and valet. We get paid min. wage or higher base pay plus we expect tips. I always tip wherever there is a service that truly makes my life a little easier and getting a ride from Uber is on the top of that list! Here are some examples, getting an uber ride instead of standing outside waiting for a bus, going to a game so I don't have to park far away and save money on parking, going out drinking and don't have to worry about drinking and driving, etc...


----------



## me2

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


You tip a cab driver and pay twice the cost to take one I feel that you should tip your driver if you ask them to wait


----------



## Geno71

unPat said:


> I don't ask tip for tips and don't expect it. And I won't rate people 1 for not tipping me. But uber explicitly says "tips are not expected and not required" which is not right. Let the passenger decide what they want to do with their money and allow a tipping option.


It's not like this anymore though. Look it up.


----------



## Geno71

Do tell said:


> A new member asked the perfect troll question and you all took the bait.LOL


You're right, it is a perfect troll question, but only because of this intense feeling of entitlement some of you show you feel I'm trolling. I posted my question in the Complaints board, this is my complaint, I wanted to complain about drivers that act like tips are owed to them for no good reason other than they just drive using Ubers by their own choice.

Love tips, don't expect them and don't cry when most riders don't tip.


----------



## unPat

Geno71 said:


> It's not like this anymore though. Look it up.


It still is . Uber doesn't have to control every aspect of the driving and let the independent contractors flourish on their own.


----------



## Back it up Uber

Geno71 said:


> You're right, it is a perfect troll question, but only because of this intense feeling of entitlement some of you show you feel I'm trolling. I posted my question in the Complaints board, this is my complaint, I wanted to complain about drivers that act like tips are owed to them for no good reason other than they just drive using Ubers by their own choice.
> 
> Love tips, don't expect them and don't cry when most riders don't tip.


I don't rate paxs bad just cause they don't tip or anything like that but yes, driving for uber is definitely a job where tips should be given. If you ever worked in the service industry before you wouldn't be saying the dumb things you are saying.


----------



## u-Boat

Geno71 said:


> Maybe it's geographical thing, but minimum wage in Pittsburgh is $7.25 per hour, I easily make 2-3 times that on any average night with Uber or Lyft. If you're truly making that minimum wage of whatever it is in your area, then why are you wasting your time with Uber? I know I would not do it for $7.25. And remember, that's $7.25 before they pay their income tax and expenses. Even after I take out taxes, gas and other expenses, I'm left with over $10 per hour, and some tips. True minimum wage workers are left with like $4, and no tips.


It has nothing to do with economic variance due to geography. uBer has been selling drivers short everywhere for awhile now. (If you signed up three years ago you would know what I'm talking about). In a few short years uBer has regressed from "your own private driver for hire" to "uBerPool and compliment badges". They've thrown standards, ethics and premium service out the window in exchange for global rideshare domination and autonomous vehicle research... all at the driver's expense. And that's why you're here on this forum talking about tips and the difference between making $7.25 and $10 an hour. You're talking peanuts when you should be talking macadamias.


----------



## Geno71

I'm not the one stating Uber drivers make minimum wage...


----------



## hulksmash

steveK2016 said:


> What are you actually spending $360 for every 1200 miles driven?
> 
> I feel drivers are putting far too much weight and concern on depreciation then is actually true.
> 
> Let's say 1200 is for a week of driving....
> 
> So you really believe you spend $1440 a month, $17,280 a year in expenses for Uber? Even at severe depreciation, there's no way that would account for a $17,280 in expenses unless you are actually buying a new car every year to Uber...
> 
> Even if it's 1200 a month of driving...
> 
> That's $4320 in expenses yearly. That's 14,400 miles you've added to your vehicle that you otherwise wouldn't have put on there. If you are accounting most of that $4320 in depreciation, that would only make sense if you bought a brand new car with zero miles on it, in which case, that depreciation happened the second you drove off the lot and not from driving Uber...
> 
> A lot of doom and gloom with drivers on this board... if Uber is truly that bad, why continue?
> 
> If you are a part timer and have a full time job, you car and insurance expenses which you had before Uber cannot count towards your Ubering. Those are expenses you already had before and without Uber.... if you do account for Uber now having to cover your car and insurance expenses, well then that just freed up the same amount from your full time job... so net net, it evens out in the end...


I used .30c as an estimate, doesn't necessarily apply to my situation. If we use .25c in the same example, your wage is up to 8.63 an hour, at .2o your up to 11.63hr. Keep in mind that you may be paid little to nothing for time and mileage to pick up passengers, and your hourly rate is reduced by any long periods of waiting for rides, especially with constant influx of new drivers.

As far as the monthly expenditures, most of it except for the gas are delayed expenses, since you don't always need maintenance, tires, etc every month. Expenses should also include a fund for unexpected repairs. vehicle expenses also include money for a replacement if you drive extensively, not to mention increased insurance premiums for added mileage plus extra costs for ride share insurance.

I do Uber because I drive relatively few hours and miles a week, and I can afford to stay offline until I can get paid a good hourly wage worth my time, and I can tolerate the few times where I don't make as much as I would've liked. I agree it is only a viable job as a part timer in the right situation. I would shoot myself if I had to do this all day everyday.


----------



## Shangsta

I get what geno is saying. If tips are the difference of you making a profit (or not) Uber is the wrong app for you. You should drive taxi, lyft or something else.

I use Uber because I can still make money without relying on tips.


----------



## Nenee

hulksmash said:


> I think driver complaints come from the fact that Uber is the only provider in the service industry known to man that actively discourages tipping and does not provide a convenient way to do so. They basically tell drivers "don't accept tips unless they really wanna give it to you, then only take it reluctantly" and pax "you know, you really don't have to tip, our drivers make enough, even without surge" Lyft and other service providers tell customers "tips for excellent service are certainly not required but greatly appreciated"
> 
> Why do bartenders and waiters get tips? Because owners know society expects customers to tip these people so they take advantage by paying them less.
> 
> Uber either thinks drivers don't have expenses, or they knowingly pay less than minimum wage but don't welcome tips. Other livery drivers make more for the same job but get tips. Shuttle drivers get a guaranteed wage and don't bear vehicle expenses and get tips. Drivers just want a fair chance of getting tips by encouraging Tips and providing a function to do so on the app


Totally agree with you. It's not so much about the tip functionality of the app but rather the message they have put out there for the pax. That tips are NOT required. If they felt that tips were expected just like in any other service industry they would mk it a point to have a few dollars on hand. Of course cheap paxs run with ubers message of no tip rwquires, it doesn't tk much!

I expect that if u r paying the clunky stinky cab twice as much as what u are paying me for a fare AND u r leaving him a tip (because it is EXPECTED) for his services that there is no reason i shpuld not get a tip for delivering a bether overall experience. Pax should be appreciative they get to ride in my squaeky clean lux ride for a fraction of the cost they pay for a cab - and show their gratitude by at least leaving a comparable tip to what they leave the cabby.

U have no idea how many times I have gone out of my way to accommodate the pax...waiting, tkg bk routes, being a tour guide, consierge, etc. Not because I at the time I was expecting to be compensated but merely because I am a nice person by nature. Did I get a tip every time? No, I would say 80% of those time I did not. However I have come across other paxs who are extremely generous and that for silly things have left me up to $100 tip.


----------



## Wardell Curry

Shangsta said:


> I get what geno is saying. If tips are the difference of you making a profit (or not) Uber is the wrong app for you. You should drive taxi, lyft or something else.
> 
> I use Uber because I can still make money without relying on tips.


Exactly and I won't downrate pax who don't tip unless they make multiple stops where I have to wait for them. That is the only way you lose stars with me in relation to tips. Airport runs with me loading and unloading luggage , no tip, 5 stars as long as the ride was smooth with no other issues.


----------



## Lionslover

Geno71 said:


> Saying "we work hard and Uber doesn't pay us enough" sounds like entitlement to me. Waiters and bartenders work on a different pay system, people working at McDonnalds make more per hour from the company than a waiter at a nice restaurant or a bartender at the club, they expected to be paid tips to actually make money and it's a motivator to do a better job. As Uber drivers, no one seems to feel motivated to do anything above the very minimum, am I wrong?
> 
> So let me say this again, I don't have anything against getting a tip. It feels good, sure. And sometimes it's stupid, I even talked in some of my posts about being tipped or not, like a guy who was a waiter and spent 10 minutes telling me how important tips are in his honest opinion and that he will make damn sure he'll tip me in the Uber app. I just laughed and wished he wouldn't talk about it at all. What I don't get it this sense of "a pax are a-holes, they don't tip, I rate them 1 for that..." The waiter guy still got a 5 from me, I probably should have tipped him (to be fair, I think he just didn't realize Uber app didn't have the option).
> 
> I don't hate tips, I love them. I'm not arguing against tips, I'm arguing against people that feel like they always deserve tips. You know who you are.
> 
> P.S. Was the Uber employee comment for me?


I'm assuming you don't drive the late night bar crowd,and about how many rides have you done for uber?


----------



## jonhjax

The $.2625 per mile (×1000=$26.25) is your taxable income. Minimum wage is taxable income. This is taxable income before your $7000 (more or less) personal deduction on your income tax forms. I understand that you don't really have $.54 per mile in expenses but the amounts above are what lenders really look at when you try to get a loan. IMO, you probably need to have a well established credit history and a significant amount of money (more than 20%) to get a loan for major purchases such as a home or a car and even then your loan application might get denied. You are putting some of your money aside for the purchase of your next vehicle,aren't you? If you're not, good luck. BTW, if your total expenses are $.20 per mile the difference between the amount I used is still only $.3625 per mile, or $362.50 per 1000 miles, or $9.0625 per hour, based on 40 hours per week. Is 40 hours a reasonable amount of time to put in 1000 miles? This includes waiting for calls and dead head miles. Please let me know if I'm way off on my time worked to miles driven estimate. Thanks much for your time.
Oh, I know you get extra for surge, wait time, promotions, etc. Do these extras come close to doubling your wages or more. If they are you are making more money but remember this money is taxable and not just for federal and state income taxes. You owe social security for at least 15% of all your income above $.54 per mile.


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## Geno71

I drive from around 6pm to 12:30-1am on Fridays and 4-5pm to 12:30-1am on Saturdays. I deal with drunk people and college kids, like it makes any difference. I did around 400 rides, drive every weekend, yeah, not a vet like some of you hardcore people, but again, that makes no difference here. 

Look around, I'm saying you're not entitled and you guys are fighting with me with "yes I am because..." arguments. My complain it that I think you're doing it wrong and you're only making it harder for yourself with that mentality. Enjoy tips when you get them, put up signs to get more, that's ok too. All the posts here complaining about how riders are dicks for not tipping and how drivers rate them low for that are what prompted me to post my opinion.


----------



## elelegido

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Shirley, you cannot be serious.

In case you are:

Definition of *culture*:
1 b : *the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group*; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>
c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line>
d : the set of values, *conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity*, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time - Peggy O'Mara>

I can't believe you had to ask that question, lol


----------



## Steven Ambrose

jonhjax said:


> The $.2625 per mile (×1000=$26.25) is your taxable income. Minimum wage is taxable income. This is taxable income before your $7000 (more or less) personal deduction on your income tax forms. I understand that you don't really have $.54 per mile in expenses but the amounts above are what lenders really look at when you try to get a loan. IMO, you probably need to have a well established credit history and a significant amount of money (more than 20%) to get a loan for major purchases such as a home or a car and even then your loan application might get denied. You are putting some of your money aside for the purchase of your next vehicle,aren't you? If you're not, good luck. BTW, if your total expenses are $.20 per mile the difference between the amount I used is still only $.3625 per mile, or $362.50 per 1000 miles, or $9.0625 per hour, based on 40 hours per week. Is 40 hours a reasonable amount of time to put in 1000 miles? This includes waiting for calls and dead head miles. Please let me know if I'm way off on my time worked to miles driven estimate. Thanks much for your time.
> Oh, I know you get extra for surge, wait time, promotions, etc. Do these extras come close to doubling your wages or more. If they are you are making more money but remember this money is taxable and not just for federal and state income taxes. You owe social security for at least 15% of all your income above $.54 per mile.


I happen to work in a field for major purchases, aka a home. As a processor and next year, an underwriter, most lenders heavily scruntize self employment and 1099 income. Your expenses should never exceed income. Granted, you can have effective tax rate of 0, but you should limit negative income variables. I know when I have processed loans and looked at Scedule C expenses for Lyft and Uber drivers and either they self prepared or their accountant was not completely educated on Schedule C expenses and the potential impacts.

Anyway, sorry if I commented out of turn.


----------



## Strange Fruit

riders are sheep for not tipping. I started 3 years ago and I remember the mental dillemma when they'd worry about it. Or all the people that wanted to tip but thought we'd get in trouble. Some would slip me cash and say "I know you're not allowed, but I won't tell". It was very much a thing, and was ignorant of Uber's marketing, and was baffled at heearing people say "the tip is included". I'd be like "where are they all getting that idea, it's weird how they all say the same thing". Wtf is included mean. There's a fare, adn Uber takes 5%. there's not tip included. I even dropped off a mom visiting her Berkely daughter from SFO. The mom gave me a tip as the daughter walked out to greet us. She got mad and said "I've never been asked for a tip. The tip is included."
I said "there's no tip included. What does that even mean. There's a fare and that's it. And I didn't ask. She just offered because she's a kind person."
That last sentence was my favorite. She was speechless after that. Thank god for old people. NObody is entitled to a tip, but no rider is entitled to me being a pleasant person if I don't feel like being one. Or taking any shit. I've had someone come out of their house and have the audacity to tell me they needed 5-10 minutes, but then they handed me a $20. I'm suddenly happy to wait for 5-10 minutes, and it turned out to be like 3 minutes. Then there's those who suddenly feel like they have their own Jeeves to do their bidding, and ask for a water as they leave the car. They are least likely to tip though. And I'm less likely to be a pleasant person if I don't feel like it. This is what people reaped by not tipping. I take my driving and not colliding with anything, seriously. The rest went out the window when I realized people would rather say things like "there should be an option for 6 stars because you're doing better than most" than tip.
Me: "Oh, you could just tip instead and those that are driving better are more likely to stick with the system since they'll make more, which is better for you riders in the long run."
"No. Like some _other_ way." (this conversation actually happened, and the guy was really cluelessly trying to compliment me, not being a dick. But these words were really exchanged. I wish I could give you 6 stars, bro. So he can raise my rating .000000000000001? Thanks dude, that'll help out.

Ultimately, I agree with the OP though, but feelings like what I just typed above are probably where some of the ire comes from. And people prefer to whine. It's hard to take some of them seriously when after complaining about they can't make enough money, they say they are going to the casino instead. I work full time, and I can't be going to throw money away at a casino. So what is their deal? They seem to be doing ok. They obviously don't have much skin in the game if when they can't make "real money" Ubering they can afford to not work at all and go throw away money at a casino. Can we bash on those people too? I'm too lazy to start a thread just bashing a class of folks, but maybe Geno will do it. Please.


----------



## Do tell

Steven Ambrose said:


> I happen to work in a field for major purchases, aka a home. As a processor and next year, an underwriter, most lenders heavily scruntize self employment and 1099 income. Your expenses should never exceed income. Granted, you can have effective tax rate of 0, but you should limit negative income variables. I know when I have processed loans and looked at Scedule C expenses for Lyft and Uber drivers and either they self prepared or their accountant was not completely educated on Schedule C expenses and the potential impacts.
> 
> Anyway, sorry if I commented out of turn.


 I have a high FICO score over 700,I had a hard time getting loans because I'm self-employed.


----------



## Strange Fruit

I wonder if Geno knows that the average american can't handle a rational debate. They just look for key words and figure out if their on side A or B. Then they fight for the side they are on. What's nice is there are actually a lot of unaverage americans on here. They actually pinpointed that Geno is simply being annoyed by the fact that people get all bitter about not beintg tipped. He even said "put a sign up and be happy when you get more tips". He's not saying you shouldn't be tipped. He's just saying, "why are you people always complaining and hating on people for not tipping". I hate on them too sometimes, but I know that's just me. I hate on people for a lot fo things though. It's just my nature. #ihatemyspecies


----------



## Do tell

Strange Fruit said:


> I wonder if Geno knows that the average american can't handle a rational debate. They just look for key words and figure out if their on side A or B. Then they fight for the side they are on. What's nice is there are actually a lot of unaverage americans on here. They actually pinpointed that Geno is simply being annoyed by the fact that people get all bitter about not beintg tipped. He even said "put a sign up and be happy when you get more tips". He's not saying you shouldn't be tipped. He's just saying, "why are you people always complaining and hating on people for not tipping". I hate on them too sometimes, but I know that's just me. I hate on people for a lot fo things though. It's just my nature. #ihatemyspecies


 Those damn human animals.LOL


----------



## UberLou

tohunt4me said:


> Why do waiters and bartenders expect tips ?


Where do you see a sign in a restaurant or bar that says "No Need to Tip" or "Tipping is not required"? Uber blasts that all over the place and they set the expectation from day one that there is no need to tip. Servers or Bartenders never have to deal with that crap. Be mad a Uber not the riders.

tohunt4me this is not directed at you. FOR GOD SAKE PEOPLE DO SOMETHING TO EARN THE TIP OTHER THAN BASIC DRIVING FROM POINT A TO B. You do the minimum you get the minimum. You call the rider entittled but yet here you are EXPECTING a tip and not earning a tip.


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## UberLou

Tipping culture in general is gotten ridiculous. I mean you go to a restaurant and order your food at the counter, make your own drink, pick up your own food, and clean up your own trash and they have a tipping jar and option on the receipt? What the hell am I tipping for? 

If you are a server you know your wage is $2.13 im some places. You know you have to work to earn that tip you cannot just expect to get one because of your low hourly wage. Same with us drivers you have to work for it, you should never just expect it. Everyone wants something for nothing.

You made a choice to drive at these rates, if you choose not to provide a service worthy of a tip its time for you to move along.


----------



## Strange Fruit

UberLou said:


> Where do you see a sign in a restaurant or bar that says "No Need to Tip" or "Tipping is not required"? Uber blasts that all over the place and they set the expectation from day one that there is no need to tip. Servers or Bartenders never have to deal with that crap. Be mad a Uber not the riders.
> 
> tohunt4me this is not directed at you. FOR GOD SAKE PEOPLE DO SOMETHING TO EARN THE TIP OTHER THAN BASIC DRIVING FROM POINT A TO B. You do the minimum you get the minimum. You call the rider entittled but yet here you are EXPECTING a tip and not earning a tip.


Not true in SF, CA. I have gone _way_ above the minimum the first year, and still get badges for excellent service, and above & beyond (the two most numerous I have), but don't get tips hardly ever. When I realized it hurt my soul to be putting that extra into it and not only getting no money for it, but actually having people treat me like I was still just too low on the social ladder to even give a sincere thank you among peers feeling, I realized it wasn't worth it. Silicon valley is like the home base of the "why the hell do we have to do this annoying tip BS" mentality. It's like a principled stance for the tech bros. They will serioulsy bring up giving you 6 stars instead. Most drivers don't even know how to drive in SF so many riders notice when you're a local, and thank you for it, and thank you for not driving like a scared foreigner, but still, they don't tip for it. Many drivers are scared to go out of order on a pool trip even when it's obviously more efficient for everyone involved, and other cases where intelligence helps you give a better service. They notice and thank you for not being one fo the dumb ones they're used to, but no one tips. Maybe in Georgia your point is true, but culture is different everywhere. Some people are passionate about not having to deal with the awkwardness of tipping. Competitive capitalism has killed the element of generosity in many. They just feel awkward handing someone money out of kindness. It makes them look like fools to hand out cash. They don't want their peers to think they are fools.


----------



## Do tell

Strange Fruit said:


> Not true in SF, CA. I have gone _way_ above the minimum the first year, and still get badges for excellent service, and above & beyond (the two most numerous I have), but don't get tips hardly ever. When I realized it hurt my soul to be putting that extra into it and not only getting no money for it, but actually having people treat me like I was still just too low on the social ladder to even give a sincere thank you among peers feeling, I realized it wasn't worth it. Silicon valley is like the home base of the "why the hell do we have to do this annoying tip BS" mentality. It's like a principled stance for the tech bros. They will serioulsy bring up giving you 6 stars instead. Most drivers don't even know how to drive in SF so many riders notice when you're a local, and thank you for it, and thank you for not driving like a scared foreigner, but still, they don't tip for it. Many drivers are scared to go out of order on a pool trip even when it's obviously more efficient for everyone involved, and other cases where intelligence helps you give a better service. They notice and thank you for not being one fo the dumb ones they're used to, but no one tips. Maybe in Georgia your point is true, but culture is different everywhere. Some people are passionate about not having to deal with the awkwardness of tipping. Competitive capitalism has killed the element of generosity in many. They just feel awkward handing someone money out of kindness. It makes them look like fools to hand out cash. They don't want their peers to think they are fools.


But yet everyday I see people handing out cash to the cardboard sign holding people at the off ramp.I guess tipping's okay if you have a hand-written cardboard sign.lol


----------



## hulksmash

I think tips should be earned, not given. With that said, riders who do things that cost us time and money and don't tip should be downrated. Make me drive 15 min (unpaid) to get you, then make me wait 5 min to come out, then ask for amenities, then make me sit in a drive thru line, then drop you off a few blocks away, all for $3, and then not be thoughtful enough to offer a tip, then yeah, you deserve a low rating. I don't care that you paid 2-3 more bucks that went to Uber. 

We offer a superior service for cheaper than taxis, and for that alone, drivers should be tipped, so long as the car is clean and are not idiots. I went on vacation recently, and Ubered everywhere, because the total cost (even with tips) was cheaper than renting a car, buying gas, and paying for parking. I tipped every time because I knew I was getting a deal, and drivers drove up to 10 min to get me. At the airport, the attendant only charged me for 1 luggage when I had 3, so I tipped cause I knew he hooked me up


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## Strange Fruit

Do tell said:


> But yet everyday I see people handing out cash to the cardboard sign holding people at the off ramp.I guess tipping's okay if you have a hand-written cardboard sign.lol


I think thsi is why some of us hesitate to get a tipping sign. I know it would get me more money, yet I don't bother. It may be laziness, but it may be an unconscious association with panhandling, so my pride is stopping me. But people report decent results from tipping signs. If I could only play guitar and sing while driving, I'd feel okay with a sign.


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## SmokestaXX

I don't expect tips. However in a society where cash is not carried as much, uber not giving the ability to tip in the app is idiotic. It has also been shown uber has used no tip necessary as a marketing ploy for their service. How many times have u heard a pax infer they would tip but have no cash. Whether or not it's coming from a place of guilt or is genuine is debateagle but, it is a dilema that has a remedy.


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## Lost in the Ozone

Waiters and waitresses get a base hourly pay around $2.50 an hour and the rest of their income is based upon tips.
That's the reason they expect/hope for tips.


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## Shangsta

Strange Fruit said:


> I think thsi is why some of us hesitate to get a tipping sign. I know it would get me more money, yet I don't bother. It may be laziness, but it may be an unconscious association with panhandling, so my pride is stopping me. But people report decent results from tipping signs. If I could only play guitar and sing while driving, I'd feel okay with a sign.


Pan handling is asking for something for free. When you buy a meal at a restauraunt they leave a line for you to include a tip. Nothing wrong with a tip sign. I cant believe drivers forgo money and dont get them.


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## Demon

me2 said:


> You tip a cab driver and pay twice the cost to take one I feel that you should tip your driver if you ask them to wait


This is a hot topic on the board. I've been in many discussions where drivers insist they are not a taxi.


----------



## Demon

u-Boat said:


> It's pretty simple. Drivers will stop *****ing about no tips and low pay when uBer either raises rates or allows drivers to set their own rates. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. Where does uBer's sense of entitlement come from?


If you can't set your own rates, you're not an independent contractor.


----------



## u-Boat

Demon said:


> If you can't set your own rates, you're not an independent contractor.


Exactly. uBer's refusal to allow drivers to set their own rates will be their downfall someday. Opportunity is knocking for a TNC startup to fill that niche (ala SideCar but with more investor dough). Drivers wouldn't give two shites about tips if they could set their own rates.


----------



## Shangsta

u-Boat said:


> Exactly. uBer's refusal to allow drivers to set their own rates will be their downfall someday. Opportunity is knocking for a TNC startup to fill that niche (ala SideCar but with more investor dough). Drivers wouldn't give two shites about tips if they could set their own rates.


The smarter full time drivers in my area are starting their own sidebusinesses using Uber to build a list of clients.

The only reason you are using the Uber app is to get pax for you but if you get commercial insurance and follow local laws you could drive people off the app.

Despite many lawsuits Uber continues to cut rates and make it harder on drivers. We would be naieve to think the pendelum is every going to really swing back in our favor.


----------



## Strange Fruit

u-Boat said:


> It's pretty simple. Drivers will stop *****ing about no tips and low pay when uBer either raises rates or allows drivers to set their own rates. Drivers are independent contractors, not employees. Where does uBer's sense of entitlement come from?


Freedom is where it came from. It's not entitlement, it's just they freely did what they did, and it's working. They built the company and convinced us to drive for them. they can do what they want, can't they? I mean, whatever they can get a way with, not absolutely whatever they want. I'm not an independent contractor either. I'm Uber's customer. They let me use the app to connect with their riders and I get a little over half the money from the trips. sometimes they hook me up with extra bonus game points if I get certain scores or get rides in a certain region. Like a slot machine or something. They also cover me with some crappy expensive deductible insurance while I'm using their service. Yeah, I'm a customer of Uber. Not an actual independent contractor. It's fun to pretend tho. I even have a business permit. If I wasn't an Uber customer, I don't think I'd be driving anyone around for money in my Prius. I would go outside and no body would be asking if they could have a ride. Nobody. They use the Uber app though, and I get lots of rides. And Uber keeps some of the money the people give them for my ride. Sometimes Uber calls me a partner, except in legal documents. Then I'm specifically not a partner, and am called an independent contractor. Laws are kind of ridiculous compared to reality. And unfortunately, it tends to favor more powerful parties. Uber's way more powerful than I am. So, I'll just be their customer and use their app and payment processing services, and make the most of it.

Definitely don't expect tips, just hope for them. "If a rider tries to hand you a tip, make sure to tell them tipping is not necessary. If you don't tell them and later they find out they didn't need to, they may rate you down. If they still insist, accept it. You earned it." Does anyone else remember that from 2014 training videos? We had to watch those to do UberX in SF in Feb2014. I think they were made for the preX platform, now called Black.

Why does everyone always say independent contractor , not employee, or vice versa. Like black or white. Like there isn't about an infinite number of other shades of color, not just if you mention black, then you must mean not white, and vice versa. You could say "it's black, not pink". Or "it's not black, it's some other color." But it's always either employee or independent contractor. Couldn't it be some other thing? Must it be framed the same way every time? Are their any independent thinkers in da house?
And has anyone noticed there's a segment of internet culture that if they think something is hypocritical, or just generally evil, but unjustly revered in spite of that, they express their spite by misspelling the entity, like: Amerika, or uBer (the second letter is capitalized, that'll show people how I feel about em)?*

*yea, I know I'm not nice.


----------



## Tenderloin

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


 Why do taxi expect tips? Are they entiteled much? Have you ever got a tip? If so you better give it back or you are at risk of getting a title


----------



## Demon

Tenderloin said:


> Why do taxi expect tips? Are they entiteled much? Have you evet got a tip? You better give it back or you are at risk of getting a title


Have you seen taxi drivers on here complaining about not getting tips?


----------



## Tenderloin

Demon said:


> Have you seen taxi drivers on here complaining about not getting tips?


Yes. I seen all kind of people complaining about all kind of stuff here.Uber driver not getting a ride, virgin not getting a ***** and Taxi driver complaining about not getting tip as well


----------



## Demon

Tenderloin said:


> Yes. I seen all kind of people complaining about all kind of stuff here. Taxi driver complaining about not getting tip as well


I haven't. Could you link me to one of the threads where they have?


----------



## AZ-XOEM

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Geno21:
(1) Are you an Uber Spy?

(2) "Sense of Entitlement" is/was/still perpetuated by the American Socialist Democratic Party.
-Considered "Anti-Democratic" by Republicans during the Great Depression,... Democrats have embraced the practice ever since.
*(



)*

(3)PAX Rating System is ineffective since, PAX are unable to view their own ratings on the Rider App (anyways).
-Drivers who rate PAX poorly based on tips, -already know this. Uber allows it so, Drivers can "vent" without directly offending the PAX.
-Heck. I've picked up Uber 2.28 and Lyft 1.0 PAX,... these ratings would typically de-activate ANY Driver. Can you say, "Double-Standard"?
-PAX is Uber's Bread and Butter. No PAX - No Uber. (PAX are ALWAYS right, even when they're wrong or, outright lie for a Refund or Credit).

-My Personal Ratings for PAX: 
1★: Smokers, Medical Marijuana, Open Container,... lines of coke (without offering any to me).
2★: No Tips ("I'll tip you on the (Lyft) app, okay?" But otherwise, No Tip), 
3★:Too Much Conversation (Bible Thumpers, Politics, Ethics, Philosophy,... Mr/Mrs Know-it-ALL), 
4★:No Conversation (No Personality, Bad Mood to Start,... Grumpy overall),
5★ For Tips (I'll even give 5-Stars for $0.50 because, it shows effort on their part).


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Geno71 said:


> Ok maybe that's how it used to be with Uber, but they're now clearly say that tips are welcome to both riders and drivers. Of course it's not going to change anything after years of promoting "no tips required", but their support articles on tipping now say they're always welcome and drivers will be happy to accept them.
> 
> Why are you saying they pay less than minimum wage? Is Uber your only job?


Nowhere do they "clearly say" tips are welcome. They add on to any language that might be construed to welcome tips that they are "not necessary, not required, the fare is expected to fully compensate the driver" etc. ad nauseum.

People are also misled into thinking tips are included or added in after the fact, due to their previous actions and wording in the app and the ubertaxi tipping option, which many don't even understand is a separate service from uberx.

Everything they do and say is designed to dissuade people from tipping and/or fool them into thinking they already did.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Strange Fruit said:


> But it's always either employee or independent contractor. Couldn't it be some other thing?


Legally, right now, it has to be one or the other. Maybe there need to be more categories, but right now that's what there are.

I think many businesses have been treating contractors as employees and getting away with it, mainly because the "contractors" were making enough money they didn't care, or they felt they had no choice. It's very likely that many taxi companies have done this. However Uber has so many "contractors" they are treating like employees in many ways, is valued at a huge amount, and flaunts the law in so many other ways, that it has brought the problem to the forefront.

But asking why one or the other? Well, there IS no third option unless laws change.


----------



## FL_Dex

Lost in the Ozone said:


> Waiters and waitresses get a base hourly pay around $2.50 an hour and the rest of their income is based upon tips.


Does anyone ever stop and think about what that means? That means the restaurant is paying someone $2.50/hour and expecting you to subsidize the wages of people bringing food to your table. Uber has cut rates to minimum wage or below (after expenses) in many markets (looking at you, Memphis). Uber cut rates to the drivers and, instead of expecting customers to subsidize some of the driver's cost through tips, they actively encourage customers to low-ball transportation expenses and stiff drivers. That's a pretty ******y thing to do. Either pay drivers more and cover the tip or shift that expectation onto customers (which is what I think they should do).

Uber should be adding a tip screen to the app, with the expectation that pax tip. They should have to enter a reason if they don't tip and pax stiffing enough drivers should lose their ride privileges, just like they would in a restaurant if they didn't tip.


----------



## Driving and Driven

If we were all driving Uber vehicles and making the money we make, as big a deal. Since we are all driving our own vehicles and paying for the maintenance and upkeep of these vehicles, tips become all that more important. 

Service industries have come to expect tips because tipping has been the custom for, literally, thousands of years in service industries. Since there have been people dragging other people around in rickshaws, there has been additional compensation to the draggers for the effort of going faster and/or farther than they would otherwise go.

Go, Ricky, Go!!


----------



## strongarm

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Sense of entitlement? Here in the great red white and blue we kinda messed up. Back during the great depression restaurant owners couldn't hire staff but people were willing to work for free by earning tips. It became the norm for many services including taxis, pizza delivery, bell hops. This way corporate can keep wages low bc the consumer can pick up the tab. Pretty shitty if you ask me. Most other countries don't have tipping for these services they might pay more overall but the server or driver is making money. Now U/L when I first started regular rates were around 2.25 mile. People loved it it was cheaper that a cab with little wait time. At that time I didn't expect many tips money was good. Now that rates are below a $1 per mile your not making much money. Of course another funny thing I actually received more tips when the rates were high. So you can blame it on the whole depression if you want. Personally I think people deserve to get paid a fair wage. I wouldn't mind getting rid of tipping altogether. So until those 1%ers like Travis, and Donald start paying employees livable wages well the consumer is going to have to make up the difference. So the next time you tip or get ripped just remember that whole trickle down thing that helps stimulate an economy isn't real it's just another story helping the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.


----------



## thesatanicmechanic

jonhjax said:


> Excuse me, my math is wrong. Uber pays drivers here $.5625 per mile base wage. That comes out to $26.25 per mile . Still less than minimum wage.


Johnjax, your math is still faulty.

Why deduct the IRS mileage allowance from your gross income when it's deductible from your taxable income?


----------



## Demon

Do tell said:


> Op asks,why do we expect tips?Answer,because we don't drive self-driving cars...............yet.lol


And fireman don't have self driving trucks, but no one tips a fireman.


----------



## Do tell

Demon said:


> And fireman don't have self driving trucks, but no one tips a fireman.


I do every time they set up the road block for the muscular dystrophy fund,fireman with boots asking for change.I always tip.


----------



## Demon

Do tell said:


> I do every time they set up the road block for the muscular dystrophy fund,fireman with boots asking for change.I always tip.


That's a donation, not a tip.


----------



## Do tell

The one thing everyone seems to be missing.If we didn't have Obama for president the last seven years 11 months,our economy would be strong and uber wouldn't get away with these low-rate tactics.


----------



## Do tell

Demon said:


> That's a donation, not a tip.


That's exactly the definition of a tip,it's a donation.LOL


----------



## Do tell

Demon said:


> That's a donation, not a tip.


Maybe that's something for a new sign,tips not accepted donations appreciated.lol


----------



## Strange Fruit

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Legally, right now, it has to be one or the other. Maybe there need to be more categories, but right now that's what there are.
> 
> I think many businesses have been treating contractors as employees and getting away with it, mainly because the "contractors" were making enough money they didn't care, or they felt they had no choice. It's very likely that many taxi companies have done this. However Uber has so many "contractors" they are treating like employees in many ways, is valued at a huge amount, and flaunts the law in so many other ways, that it has brought the problem to the forefront.
> 
> But asking why one or the other? Well, there IS no third option unless laws change.


Of course you're right.
& it's more like they treat people looking for employment are hired only as contractors. I know what your saying. It's just annoying how the drivers like to bring it up just for unrelated crap. It has no bearing on real life, however the law is framed. I drive, I make money. I'm not an employee, and the idea of being a contractor sounds silly. I use an app that connects me to rides. Whether I get tipped or not, has nothing to do with contractor or not. It has to do with if a person hands me a tip or not. I get annoyed by people too often though. That's my problem.


----------



## Strange Fruit

Do tell said:


> The one thing everyone seems to be missing.If we didn't have Obama for president the last seven years 11 months,our economy would be strong and uber wouldn't get away with these low-rate tactics.


Yep, that's what happened. Just that simple. The King of Earth, the O-Man decreed things, and the economy is the way it is now. Thanks professor. I thought the world was complicated, but it's really as simple as CNN & FOX say it is. And we know cuz Do tell told us.


----------



## Do tell

Strange Fruit said:


> Yep, that's what happened. Just that simple. The King of Earth, the O-Man decreed things, and the economy is the way it is now. Thanks professor. I thought the world was complicated, but it's really as simple as CNN & FOX say it is. And we know cuz Do tell told us.


I love your sarcasm,but I know you speak the truth.LOL. PS don't forget MSNBC


----------



## strongarm

Do tell said:


> The one thing everyone seems to be missing.If we didn't have Obama for president the last seven years 11 months,our economy would be strong and uber wouldn't get away with these low-rate tactics.


Haha yeah can't wait for a 1%er to be in charge. Tax cuts for the rich! Like Travis! Oh and politicians don't run the economy. Commerce runs the economy politicians just give tax breaks to the wealthy or atleast that's what we will be seeing soon. Keep shrinking that middle class wooo!  Oh and why people don't tip firemen is beyond me. Why not tip them.


----------



## Do tell

Okay one example,early on in Obama's tenure.He said the police acted stupidly,then riots occurred throughout his tenure in all the major cities.You mean black people don't get shot by cops before Obama.Of course they did,but there weren't riots.Well,except in 1992 in LA

My point is,Obama set the tone for our country to be depressed and make the meak weaker.

Now we have someone named Donald Trump who talks with strength and not weakness and our economy is already growing.

Speaking of the news channels,did you see all the riots in the malls this past weekend.I didn't see one white person fighting in any of the videos.Just saying


----------



## Strange Fruit

Do tell said:


> I love your sarcasm,but I know you speak the truth.LOL. PS don't forget MSNBC


Oooooohh, you were being sarcastic. Sorry. And MSNBC had too many letters. But since I'm apologizing, I'll type the 5 extra letters to agree.


----------



## strongarm

No he tweets


----------



## Do tell

Okay okay I digress,I'll let you guys have at it.


----------



## Strange Fruit

Do tell said:


> Okay one example,early on in Obama's tenure.He said the police acted stupidly,then riots occurred throughout his tenure in all the major cities.You mean black people don't get shot by cops before Obama.Of course they did,but there weren't riots.Well,except in 1992 in LA
> 
> My point is,Obama set the tone for our country to be depressed and make the meak weaker.
> 
> Now we have someone named Donald Trump who talks with strength and not weakness and our economy is already growing.
> 
> Speaking of the news channels,did you see all the riots in the malls this past weekend.I didn't see one white person fighting in any of the videos.Just saying


Oooooh, you weren't. Did you see the white peopel fighting at Walmart, and stuff, on black Friday's since like, since I was born, almost. Maybe. Just saying. And all that other stuff people of all colors do, since like, forever. And orange people aren't that good to people either. Obama should apologize for being honest sometimes.


----------



## strongarm

Do tell that's not how economies work. Again politicians don't effect economy much. Just like how they don't create jobs like your beloved Trump promised everyone. Politics aside our economy went into the dumps bc of the housing market bubble caused by negligible banks and millionaires like Trump. Not because of a bad Obama speech.


----------



## Shangsta

Do tell said:


> The one thing everyone seems to be missing.If we didn't have Obama for president the last seven years 11 months,our economy would be strong and uber wouldn't get away with these low-rate tactics.


If Obama had any control over Uber he would probably regulate it heavily and make them pay better.

Uber has cut rates because the market allows them to do so. You dont seem to understand economics very well.


----------



## strongarm

Do tell said:


> Okay okay I digress,I'll let you guys have at it.


No not yet I want you to tell us how a great speaker like Trump will make people feel good and then no more economic woes


----------



## Do tell

Shangsta said:


> If Obama had any control over Uber he would probably regulate it heavily and make them pay better.
> 
> Uber has cut rates because the market allows them to do so. You dont seem to understand economics very well.


That was exactly my point,the economy is bad,so uber gets away with it.If there weren't desperate drivers there wouldn't be all this complaining on this website.lol

I won't argue with your knowledge or lack of knowledge on my part.lol


----------



## Strange Fruit

Obama caused the low Uber rates though. That's entirely true. Trump doesn't like cheap labor at all. He hates cheap labor (cuz it's too expensive, and not a good deal if you can get it for free some how, but it's even cheaper to trick people into paying for a bogus university). But He's totally against it. Like that one time....no wait, but that one thing....no wait......but he cares and........god, why do people believe in that guy? It's so sad. It seems like the country has been sliding out of it's economic dominance since the 70's. The world's changing. The real economic masters have been going global through most of the 20th century, and it's just becoming ultra visible to most poeple here, now that it's gotten mega obvious. But every thing was good until Obama. Then he made those ****** feel safe to be uppity and thank god the orange muppet will save us. We almost had the black uprising Charles Manson prophesied, but the muppet came just in time.


----------



## Do tell

strongarm said:


> Do tell that's not how economies work. Again politicians don't effect economy much. Just like how they don't create jobs like your beloved Trump promised everyone. Politics aside our economy went into the dumps bc of the housing market bubble caused by negligible banks and millionaires like Trump. Not because of a bad Obama speech.


If that's what you believe,good luck to you.


----------



## Strange Fruit

strongarm said:


> No not yet I want you to tell us how a great speaker like Trump will make people feel good and then no more economic woes


Every time I 'bate, my account gets a $50. Feeling good is all it takes. Then I don't feel as good after and it goes down again. And so does my account balance.


----------



## Strange Fruit

strongarm said:


> No not yet I want you to tell us how a great speaker like Trump will make people feel good and then no more economic woes


Trust me, you don't want anyone to tell us that. It's going to cause an aneurysm.


----------



## Do tell

Oops,I'm on the wrong website.I opened up a can of worms.LOL


----------



## strongarm

The problem isn't the economy itself. The problem is the income inequality. The guys at the top keep getting more bonuses and raises while middle class and lower class wages stay stagnant to keep margins high. To be honest Uber is making people drive Thier own cars so they can undercut taxis who have to pay for cars


----------



## Strange Fruit

strongarm said:


> Do tell that's not how economies work. Again politicians don't effect economy much. Just like how they don't create jobs like your beloved Trump promised everyone. Politics aside our economy went into the dumps bc of the housing market bubble caused by negligible banks and millionaires like Trump. Not because of a bad Obama speech.


He wants you to call him a billionaire. He really needs that. You're hurting the poor guy's feelings. He's gone to lots of trouble to convince everyone he's a billionaire. Just humor him. He's easily ruffled.

And Do tell is cool, cuz he isn't being all stupid. Nice that no one has started flinging feces.


Do tell said:


> Oops,I'm on the wrong website.I opened up a can of worms.LOL


Actually, more than half the SF section was pro Trump. We had a poll. We had a thrread or two then taken down for too much feces flinging. It was fun.


----------



## Strange Fruit

strongarm said:


> The problem isn't the economy itself. The problem is the income inequality. The guys at the top keep getting more bonuses and raises while middle class and lower class wages stay stagnant to keep margins high. To be honest Uber is making people drive Thier own cars so they can undercut taxis who have to pay for cars


They haven't made anyone drive. They offered the opportunity. We took it. I took it 3 years ago, and of course am very disappointed, but they never made me do it. But it was a clever way to exploit peasants. Not the first or last. #ihatemyspecies


----------



## Do tell

strongarm said:


> The problem isn't the economy itself. The problem is the income inequality. The guys at the top keep getting more bonuses and raises while middle class and lower class wages stay stagnant to keep margins high. To be honest Uber is making people drive Thier own cars so they can undercut taxis who have to pay for cars


Uber is making you drive.They're not making me drive.My last trip I took was in July and it was a surge.Being a US citizen,it is my duty to choose my own path.Let's all make America great again.


----------



## Do tell

Strange Fruit said:


> Obama caused the low Uber rates though. That's entirely true. Trump doesn't like cheap labor at all. He hates cheap labor (cuz it's too expensive, and not a good deal if you can get it for free some how, but it's even cheaper to trick people into paying for a bogus university). But He's totally against it. Like that one time....no wait, but that one thing....no wait......but he cares and........god, why do people believe in that guy? It's so sad. It seems like the country has been sliding out of it's economic dominance since the 70's. The world's changing. The real economic masters have been going global through most of the 20th century, and it's just becoming ultra visible to most poeple here, now that it's gotten mega obvious. But every thing was good until Obama. Then he made those ****** feel safe to be uppity and thank god the orange muppet will save us. We almost had the black uprising Charles Manson prophesied, but the muppet came just in time.


Thanks a lot for that.Now I can't get the Muppet Show theme song out of my head.LOL


----------



## darkshy77

Lyft: $100 Million in Tips:


----------



## strongarm

_no I live in Austin we kick


Do tell said:


> Uber is making you drive.They're not making me drive.My last trip I took was in July and it was a surge.Being a US citizen,it is my duty to choose my own path.Let's all make America great again.


Ed


Do tell said:


> Uber is making you drive.They're not making me drive.My last trip I took was in July and it was a surge.Being a US citizen,it is my duty to choose my own path.Let's all make America great again.


As a matter of fact I too Havn't drove for them since they left Austin. Now I'm a student again. America is great right now and will continue to be. It could definitely be better. Not sure how when I need tires for my car I can shop 20 different brands to find tires I like but when it comes to choosing political leaders I get stuck with two shitty parties who have been around for way too long. Now I have a commander and chief who compulsively tweets. The other choice sucked just as bad. We as Americans deserve more than 2 teams to chose from. Don't forget to tip!


----------



## simpsonsverytall

Uber has

✓ Managed to _remove _the social norm among passengers of 'tipping'.

✓ AND managed to _maintain _the social norm among drivers of 'service' 

that is basically it, in a nutshell.

*
Joke is on the drivers who feel obligated to provide service*. The newbies and the ignorant in that group have good excuses for missing the strategem.
The only drivers who really seem despicable, are the Uber driver equivalent of 'uncle toms', who heartily defend these business tactics, and even deride the 15% of drivers who call a spade, a 'spade'...


----------



## Do tell

Do tell said:


> Thanks a lot for that.Now I can't get the Muppet Show theme song out of my head.LOL


----------



## strongarm

Yeah tip of the day driving for Uber is not a means of income.


----------



## Do tell

After reading some posts on this website,this is how I feel.LOL


----------



## THE MAN!

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


When Uber launched X it was understood that tip was included in fare. But that was when fares were much higher. And Uber never said anything about not tipping. They just told passengers it was included. There was a petition signed by 10,000 passengers to allow tipping in app but Uber refuses to allow. Just put the dam option in the app and allow people to at least have the option to tip if they choose. Uber drivers are human beings with expenses. Even though the sign says "don't feed the animals". Some people still do!

Uber Taxi collects tips for drivers. So how is X any different?


----------



## strongarm

THE MAN! said:


> When Uber launched X it was understood that tip was included in fare. But that was when fares were much higher. And Uber never said anything about not tipping. They just told passengers it was included. There was a petition signed by 10,000 passengers to allow tipping in app but Uber refuses to allow. Just put the dam option in the app and allow people to at least have the option to tip if they choose. Uber drivers are human beings with expenses. Even though the sign says "don't feed the animals". Some people still do!
> 
> Uber Taxi collects tips for drivers. So how is X any different?


I agree I also think tipping used to be the "nice" thing to do. I don't know when I young my parents explained who to tip. My parents tipped a lot of people. The tips were small but it was the norm. Not enough people ever really have to work in service industry anymore to know how much a small tip could probably change someones whole day. Personally get rid of tipping across the board and let's talk about decent wages for servers or drivers. Costs might go up but atleast no one has this dumb conversation anymore.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

strongarm said:


> Not enough people ever really have to work in service industry anymore to know how much a small tip could probably change someones whole day.


This one time i picked up this family to take to the airport, When i was helping them with their luggage each of the kids handed me like 30-40c each.. (on top of what the parents tipped)

I was almost in tears over the deal.. This kids were just barely out of booster seats at the time. One of my fondest memories in the industry.


----------



## Adieu

Cuz that's how the industry has always worked


----------



## MrBear

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


We make a very low wage usually under min wage and have high expenses, that's why. They always tip a taxi with dirty car , we give them a nice car at a much lower price, why don't they tip?


----------



## Terrychris

Only in America !!!


----------



## steveK2016

Demon said:


> If you can't set your own rates, you're not an independent contractor.


Contractors do not necessarily set their own rates.

Uber offered a contract at a rate of x per mile and x per minute. You are independent enough to either accept or reject that contract. No one forced you into said contract and you can leave said contract at any time without penalty or fine.


----------



## Demon

steveK2016 said:


> Contractors do not necessarily set their own rates.
> 
> Uber offered a contract at a rate of x per mile and x per minute. You are independent enough to either accept or reject that contract. No one forced you into said contract and you can leave said contract at any time without penalty or fine.


By definition they do.


----------



## steveK2016

Demon said:


> Be definition they do.


A contracor can technically sets their rate by rejecting or accepting contracts based on rates they agree or disagree on. You are independent, you are free to get your own customers without the Uber app. That may mean you'll need to send $6000 a year on commercial insurance, but that is an option for you. You can reject Uber and drive only lyft. Reject both and only drive Juno. Reject all and deliver pizza. Lol.


----------



## Demon

steveK2016 said:


> A contracor can technically sets their rate by rejecting or accepting contracts based on rates they agree or disagree on. You are independent, you are free to get your own customers without the Uber app. That may mean you'll need to send $6000 a year on commercial insurance, but that is an option for you. You can reject Uber and drive only lyft. Reject both and only drive Juno. Reject all and deliver pizza. Lol.


You're totally missing the point. If drivers can't set the rates, they are employees and not independent contractors. That's not up for debate.

There's no may mean. ALL Uber drivers must have commercial insurance for legal and liability reasons. This is also not up for debate.


----------



## Demon

MrBear said:


> We make a very low wage usually under min wage and have high expenses, that's why. They always tip a taxi with dirty car , we give them a nice car at a much lower price, why don't they tip?


Uber says drivers make minimum wage or more. The US Beu of Labor says the average taxi driver earns $22,500 a year. It is not customary to tip someone who makes minimum wage or more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ctually-make-per-hour/?utm_term=.c62b9c434110


----------



## strongarm

Demon said:


> Uber says drivers make minimum wage or more. The US Beu of Labor says the average taxi driver earns $22,500 a year. It is not customary to tip someone who makes minimum wage or more.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ctually-make-per-hour/?utm_term=.c62b9c434110


What? Tipping is only for those who don't get paid minimum wage? If a driver makes minimum wage or a bit more then they are technically not making minimum wage after vehicle expenses


----------



## Demon

strongarm said:


> What? Tipping is only for those who don't get paid minimum wage? If a driver makes minimum wage or a bit more then they are technically not making minimum wage after vehicle expenses


Uber says they are making minimum wage after expsense. I'm not saying I agree with Uber, just telling you what your partner says.

It is not customary to tip people who make minimum wage.


----------



## strongarm

Demon said:


> You're totally missing the point. If drivers can't set the rates, they are employees and not independent contractors. That's not up for debate.
> 
> There's no may mean. ALL Uber drivers must have commercial insurance for legal and liability reasons. This is also not up for debate.


Actually the insurance has to do with local regulations so it depends on what the state or cities require


----------



## Demon

strongarm said:


> Actually the insurance has to do with local regulations so it depends on what the state or cities require


Show me a state that allows people to drive without insurance.


----------



## Novus Caesar

Demon said:


> Uber says drivers make minimum wage or more. The US Beu of Labor says the average taxi driver earns $22,500 a year. It is not customary to tip someone who makes minimum wage or more.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ctually-make-per-hour/?utm_term=.c62b9c434110


Then why are pizza delivery drivers tipped? They are not exempt from minimum wage.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Well, when I very first started driving over a year ago, the rates were set to include the tip. That is how Uber advertised it but when Uber lowered it's rates, it seems they took the built in tip away. It's a service industry in the US and in the service industry, we tip.


----------



## Do tell

Adieu said:


> Cuz that's how the industry has always worked
> 
> View attachment 85099


Do you just spray it on your keyboard?LOL


----------



## strongarm

Demon said:


> Uber says they are making minimum wage after expsense. I'm not saying I agree with Uber, just telling you what your partner says.
> 
> It is not customary to tip people who make minimum wage.


I disagree pizza delivery drivers make min wage. Sorry they used to but of course they cut back on Thier wages as well. It's customary to tip at car washes t


Demon said:


> Show me a state that allows people to drive without insurance.


I was talking about the commercial insurance


----------



## Demon

Novus Caesar said:


> Then why are pizza delivery drivers tipped? They are not exempt from minimum wage.


No one is exempt from minimum wage laws.


----------



## Novus Caesar

Demon said:


> Show me a state that allows people to drive without insurance.


I think he means the TYPE of insurance. Some states require liability only, and some are no fault. Others will require commercial. Since ride sharing is new, everywhere has not caught up to regulating it.

Where I live, ride sharing has been around for years. It was encouraged for commuters. Now Uber steps in and everyone wants to regulate it more. Were rude sharers 10 years ago who gave money for gas considered a business or taxi for insurance?


----------



## Do tell

steveK2016 said:


> Contractors do not necessarily set their own rates.
> 
> Uber offered a contract at a rate of x per mile and x per minute. You are independent enough to either accept or reject that contract. No one forced you into said contract and you can leave said contract at any time without penalty or fine.


As an independent contractor for 20 years,this statement is true and accurate.


----------



## strongarm

Demon said:


> No one is exempt from minimum wage laws.


People USED to tip delivery drivers bc they drive Thier own car and used Thier gas. Same as any rideshare driver but for some reason people don't care about people using Thier own property and fuel


----------



## Novus Caesar

Demon said:


> No one is exempt from minimum wage laws.


Waiters are from the business side. The business just makes sure the tips offset the $2 they pay them. Also, salaried employees are. You can be a soldier making $25,000 and working far more than 40 hrs. Especially if you are deployed.


----------



## Novus Caesar

strongarm said:


> People USED to tip delivery drivers bc they drive Thier own car and used Thier gas. Same as any rideshare driver but for some reason people don't care about people using Thier own property and fuel


I worked for Paps Johns in college and at the time, the driver was paid above minimum wage, plus got a percent of the sale to offset the car d pended, and was tipped. Then Papa Johns years later I saw started charging people delivery fees. I can guarantee that is why the tips stopped.


----------



## strongarm

Do tell said:


> As an independent contractor for 20 years,this statement is true and accurate.


I agree that's why I stopped driving drunk unappreciative riders. Uber used to be cool and convenience. Now it has become an expectation.


----------



## strongarm

Novus Caesar said:


> Waiters are from the business side. The business just makes sure the tips offset the $2 they pay them. Also, salaried employees are. You can be a soldier making $25,000 and working far more than 40 hrs. Especially if you are deployed.


Most deployments have additional pay. Expenses are low if you live on base too. I will say that most jobs continue after clicking out unfortunately


----------



## Do tell

strongarm said:


> Most deployments have additional pay. Expenses are low if you live on base too. I will say that most jobs continue after clicking out unfortunately


God bless our men and women in the armed forces.


----------



## Demon

strongarm said:


> I disagree pizza delivery drivers make min wage. Sorry they used to but of course they cut back on Thier wages as well. It's customary to tip at car washes t
> 
> I was talking about the commercial insurance


I would love to see how and where pizza delivery drivers get a minimum wage salary after expenses.

An Uber driver must have commercial insurance, they can't get personal.


----------



## Demon

Grahamcracker said:


> Well, when I very first started driving over a year ago, the rates were set to include the tip. That is how Uber advertised it but when Uber lowered it's rates, it seems they took the built in tip away. It's a service industry in the US and in the service industry, we tip.


We do? When was the last time you tipped staff at a fast food restaurant?


----------



## Geno71

I must be missing something, why do people keep saying they make minimum wage with Uber? I make more than double with casual driving. If you truly make $7.25 or $8 or whatever the minimum wage actually is, and that's BEFORE your expenses, then yeah, you need to do something else.

If your argument is that you're left with close to minimum wage AFTER expenses then you're comparing apples to oranges, people that truly make minimum wage get that before taxes and their expenses.

Please stop feeling sorry for yourself, if you can't get by without tips, dude, get an actual job.

P.S. Just saw an Uber commercial on TV, they said "Get your side hustle on...", Uber is not a job.


----------



## Surgeorbust

It's quite easy to understand. Riders ask if they can tip. Giving riders the option in the app would only be an improvement.


----------



## steveK2016

Demon said:


> You're totally missing the point. If drivers can't set the rates, they are employees and not independent contractors. That's not up for debate.
> 
> There's no may mean. ALL Uber drivers must have commercial insurance for legal and liability reasons. This is also not up for debate.


You are missing the point of what a contractor is or what a contract does. Uber offered all of us a contract for a rate. You are not forced to accept that rate. You can drive for Lyft. You can drive for Juno. You can drive for private clients. You can do anything else besides accept Uber's contract rates.

You are de facto setting your own rates. If you want to drive for $20 a trip, you can... by not accepting Uber's contract and picking up a private client for $20. You are not forced to take Uber rides, you can do other rides as well. That's what makes you independent.



Do tell said:


> As an independent contractor for 20 years,this statement is true and accurate.


Exactly. I mean, yea, in a sense you are setting rates by accepting or not accepting contracts. If a contract is below the rate you want to work for, you don't accept that contract. If it's what you want to make or better, then you accept it.

But you don't necessarily set the rates directly for the project. In other contract work, say in construction, you can bid your rate but that doesn't mean you'll get that rate. If you want the job, you accept the rate that both parties agree to. Uber set their rate, you are free to accept it or not. If you accept it, you cannot force them to change the rate.

That's independent contractor 101.



strongarm said:


> Most deployments have additional pay. Expenses are low if you live on base too. I will say that most jobs continue after clicking out unfortunately


Hazards pay, family separation pay and tax free income are all great.



Demon said:


> I would love to see how and where pizza delivery drivers get a minimum wage salary after expenses.
> 
> An Uber driver must have commercial insurance, they can't get personal.


There's a difference between commercial insurance and rideshare endorsement. Uber drivers do not need commercial insurance but they need Rideshare endorsement but that's not 100% necessarily true in all states or with all insurance companies. Some, like USAA from what I hear, do not offer RSE but don't care if their customers drive for rideshare or not. The difference between the two can be upwards of $4000, so there's a big difference.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Demon said:


> We do? When was the last time you tipped staff at a fast food restaurant?


Yes we do. I tip my waitress, my drivers, the hotel housekeeping and I used to tip the guy who pumped my gas back in the day


----------



## roadman

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


If your daughter worked for them during her college years would you want her to get tipped? Would you not be furious to discover they already have an in-app tip option to for Uber Taxi but not for Uber X? Would you be enraged to learn that they lied when they used tell the customers "Tip is Included" but then were sued and now they say "No Need To Tip"

No you would be mad at your daughter for her sense of entitlement when she complains to you that she drove all week and did not a receive single tip. You would then ask her well honey many much pay did you receive? $250. And how many hours were you online? 20 hours. And how many miles did you put on daddy's I mean your car? 400. You do some quick math and discover that she is making $2.50/hour. But you are still mad at her right.


----------



## Kevin7889

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Most taxi drivers suck compared to app drivers and they get tipped. Why can't we?


----------



## Craven Morehear

Aaron Beauchamp said:


> I agree with you, that we shouldn't expect tips. Tips are not mandatory. when I get them, that's great, but I don't solicit for them. I totally am on board with you.
> 
> What irks me is that Uber not only doesn't provide a tip option on their app, but indirectly discourages it. Now, that's total bunk.


Agreed. Guber tacitly is discouraging tipping.


----------



## me2

Demon said:


> This is a hot topic on the board. I've been in many discussions where drivers insist they are not a taxi.


In Michigan we will have to follow the same rules as taxes soon. Also our service is better both in time and Quality then many taxes drivers. While I would love tips to be something everyone gives I would be satisfied if the app had a tipping Feature for thouse costumer who want to tip specially the one I go above and beyond for such as waiting for them to run into the bank or who ask me to wait for a while before they were ready. Those who appreciate that I did not cancel because they were to far away for other drivers some time I'll get someone 15-20 min away and find out that 3-6 drivers either canceled out right or called then canceled. Also uber could solve this by raise it rates to a more reasonable level they could double it and still be half the cost of a cab. But they do want to be at war with lift and instead of absorbing the cost them selves they drop our earnings. No other job would do this and impend contractor set their own rates or would have cost that could not be lowered lower then the initial stated pay rate. If I worked at target and they decided to have everything 50% off they would not cut the Employees checks in half. So which is it if I'm an independent contractor then eather I should be able to negotiate my own rates and rules or at least know that my rates could not be lowered farther than my initial start mount nor lowered after they have been raised also uber fees would be the same across the board because it cost them no more or less per city for us to drive them. And if I'm an employee then they can not lower my pay at a wim because they with to offer a sale to their costumers.


----------



## 58756

I sure don't expect it and I never ask for it and yet my tips always heard my Lyft fees.


----------



## 58756

Here look at this. I was freshly ripped $20 in Lyft now and I never once asked or demanded it and it was a short ride


http://imgur.com/KtrjILQ


----------



## louvit

haha on tips, yet cabs get them all this time. I am in shock if I get a buck or 2...


----------



## Do tell

Grahamcracker said:


> Yes we do. I tip my waitress, my drivers, the hotel housekeeping and I used to tip the guy who pumped my gas back in the day


I was at a full serve gas station last week because it was $0.05 cheaper than the other gas stations.I tipped the pump man a dollar.Wasn't so much full service,he didn't have a squeegee for my windshield.lol


----------



## Novus Caesar

If we are independent contractors, how are we told what type of car to drive, whether or not to be legally armed, and whether or not we want to accept clients? If all Uber is is a platform which we license, then none of that would apply. 

Just like in the franchise business, independent owners set their own prices. Most just go along with the corporate gameplay.


----------



## Novus Caesar

steveK2016 said:


> Some, like USAA from what I hear, do not offer RSE but don't care if their customers drive for rideshare or not. The difference between the two can be upwards of $4000, so there's a big difference.


USAA does offer it. Google USAA rideshare coverage.


----------



## I Rateriders




----------



## Toonces-the-cat

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


It is obvious that you have not been driving very long.


----------



## Toonces-the-cat

I used to work as a bellman/driver for a hotel. Everyone would tip except tourist from New Zealand. The Reason being is that people in NZ get paid a good wage. In America, tipping is a way to offset a low wage.


----------



## Do tell

Novus Caesar said:


> If we are independent contractors, how are we told what type of car to drive, whether or not to be legally armed, and whether or not we want to accept clients? If all Uber is is a platform which we license, then none of that would apply.
> 
> Just like in the franchise business, independent owners set their own prices. Most just go along with the corporate gameplay.


I used to work for a franchise.If you didn't follow the franchise rules,they get rid of you and you lose your deposit.Different franchises have different licensing rules,so your mileage may vary.


----------



## LadyDi

I had a return rider who I remembered how to get to his house and the stories we shared the last time he was in my vehicle. He tipped me more than his fare. It was Christmas and because I remembered so many details, I know he felt great about his experience as a return Uber rider. I felt good all day after that. The next person tipped $3 but the fact that she acted on it gave her a 5 star in my book as well as the person previously mentioned. I get a Lyft guy who has a distant ride, NO TIP. WHAT?!?! And you know he got a low rating from me just for that. No tip, 4 star. If people can rate me (or not) the way they feel, so can I. I do give 5 stars to no tippers IF the ride is outstandingly fun, educational or "gifting" (invites to..., food, drinks, etc). A girl shared her fresh pizza with me at 2 am. 5 stars baby as she thought about ME!!v


----------



## Do tell

LadyDi said:


> I had a return rider who I remembered how to get to his house and the stories we shared the last time he was in my vehicle. He tipped me more than his fare. It was Christmas and because I remembered so many details, I know he felt great about his experience as a return Uber rider. I felt good all day after that. The next person tipped $3 but the fact that she acted on it gave her a 5 star in my book as well as the person previously mentioned. I get a Lyft guy who has a distant ride, NO TIP. WHAT?!?! And you know he got a low rating from me just for that. No tip, 4 star. If people can rate me (or not) the way they feel, so can I. I do give 5 stars to no tippers IF the ride is outstandingly fun, educational or "gifting" (invites to..., food, drinks, etc). A girl shared her fresh pizza with me at 2 am. 5 stars baby as she thought about ME!!v


Hey,what do I know.I think 4 stars is a great rating.LOL


----------



## LadyDi

Do tell said:


> Hey,what do I know.I think 4 stars is a great rating.LOL


ME TOO!!


----------



## ManwBiGcar

Pax should tip if he/she gets good service, when driver and car is clean and nice looking, when driver drives smoothly, when driver puts pax luggage in and out of trunk, and so on. As for me just 1 dollar makes sense cause it motivates me to provide better service.
Now I have not received tips for 4 days and I don't wash car cause if riders don't give a **** about me I don't give either about them


----------



## Polomarko

To Geno71!
I would like to let you something about tipping.
1/The truth is that Uber is a Liar and they know that wary well. They are manipulating the public about their business practices. 
2/ I don't think you ever drive. Seams to me that you are one of Uber's employees.
3/ Without scamming new drivers ( take look at Uber advertisement practices ) Uber existence would be quastanable.
So, my friend, stop doing it. Uber drivers need to be organized and fight back, Strike is only solution to stop Uber
for ripping of people who need money.
Why we pay taxes. We pay taxes to have gavrament to protect us of all kind of banditsam, gavrament that lai down 
Rules of Low how business operates.


----------



## Polomarko

5 star rating for rider. Nice people with $2 or more tip
4 star rating for rider. Nice people with up to $ 2 tip
all other 1, 2 or 3 stars, depends of situation.


----------



## Rico Ramz

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


drivers expect tips because the fares are so low and we need and incentive to stay on the road and Uber management are f...ing a..holes and riders are cheap mother f..kers!


----------



## Rico Ramz

jonhjax said:


> Working for uber you make more than minimum wage? Not in my market. Is 1000 miles a week a good start for full time drivers? I'll go ahead and use this mileage amount to make a point. The uber x rate here is $.75 per mile. Take 25% from that and you get $.575 per mile. The IRS mileage deduction is $.54 per mile, right? $.575-$.54=$.035 per mile and $.035×1000=$35.00. That's $35.00 per 1000 miles. That is less than minimum wage, right?


Your math is wrong, you have to include the time fare.


----------



## Rico Ramz

Here is a tip, uber wants to force drivers to do pool, which is a ripoff, and I say, if they want to provide a service so cheap, to the public, Uber should buy their own fleet of cars and drivers and provide the uber pool service. The rest of "independent contractors" can continue to provide excellent service to uberX and XL riders. Uber can set their drone cars free... oh wait they tried and got shut down by big brother. I guess they are not bad ass as they thought. What a bunch of moron, egomaniacs and entitled they are at uber tech.


----------



## Firstime

Honestly, it only bothers me when a few pax talk about having to pay soo much for a taxi for sooo many years, and how they are so glad uber came around to save them money. I think not tipping a buck or two(after revealing you could afford paying 3x as much) shows their lousy character. If you are saving $20 plus a ride and can't throw a bone or two in appreciation , what does that say about you as a person? Other than that, it doesn't matter to me!


----------



## CatchyMusicLover

Demon said:


> It is not customary to tip someone who makes minimum wage or more.


Well, except in California and Nevada and any other state where any employee has to get minimum wage as long as they are on the clock. Tips don't factor in.


----------



## Demon

Rico Ramz said:


> drivers expect tips because the fares are so low and we need and incentive to stay on the road and Uber management are f...ing a..holes and riders are cheap mother f..kers!


Every time someone calls riders cheap Uber execs in SF laugh & high five each other.


----------



## Demon

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Well, except in California and Nevada and any other state where any employee has to get minimum wage as long as they are on the clock. Tips don't factor in.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean but please list all the minimum wage or more employees you tip.


----------



## Demon

Grahamcracker said:


> Yes we do. I tip my waitress, my drivers, the hotel housekeeping and I used to tip the guy who pumped my gas back in the day


There is no wait staff at a fast food restaurant.


----------



## Geno71

Polomarko said:


> To Geno71!
> I would like to let you something about tipping.
> 1/The truth is that Uber is a Liar and they know that wary well. They are manipulating the public about their business practices.
> 2/ I don't think you ever drive. Seams to me that you are one of Uber's employees.
> 3/ Without scamming new drivers ( take look at Uber advertisement practices ) Uber existence would be quastanable.
> So, my friend, stop doing it. Uber drivers need to be organized and fight back, Strike is only solution to stop Uber
> for ripping of people who need money.
> Why we pay taxes. We pay taxes to have gavrament to protect us of all kind of banditsam, gavrament that lai down
> Rules of Low how business operates.


If I was an employee, why would I be telling people that Uber is not a job and they should try to get a real career? Don't think Uber would like that. It's drivers like this that prompted me to post my complaint. Please organize drivers to fight back, I will gladly join you, just let me know.

One guy says "no tip means 3 or lower rating", another says "why should I wash my car, people don't tip me anyway...", yep, you guys are doing it wrong. I agree any day that Uber are dicks for not adding the tip option, but like I said, they never told you tips will be a part of it, expecting everyone to tip you now is your problem, not theirs. And in most cases riders just don't know any better, can't really blame them.

P.S. I had the rudest and most disrespectful rider last night on Lyft. This was the first time ever I actially considered kicking someone out of my car. I still got him to his bar destination, thanked him and wished him a great night, drove off, rated an a-hole 1 star and sent a comment and then later on I found out.... he added a $2 tip to his minimum $4.12 fare. WTH? I'd rather have 9 out of 10 non tipping but nice passengers vs any tipping a-hole that doesn't know how to act.


----------



## steveK2016

ManwBiDiK said:


> Pax should tip if he/she gets good service, when driver and car is clean and nice looking, when driver drives smoothly, when driver puts pax luggage in and out of trunk, and so on. As for me just 1 dollar makes sense cause it motivates me to provide better service.
> Now I have not received tips for 4 days and I don't wash car cause if riders don't give a &%[email protected]!* about me I don't give either about them


Maybe the uber gods have smiled down upon me or karma is paying me off, but i bought an unlimited full service carwash deal yesterday for $48. I plan on using it at least 8 times a month. Pretty sweet. Probably more since i can use it at any of their locations and they have one by my house and office.

Then last night, wouldnt you know it, i had a record breaking tip night. $170 in cash and $20 on my square reader.

First night out with my new lighted tip sign. Maybe its a coincidence and it was just NYE-eve, but ive never came close to that before. $40 in tips was a good day in tips, enough to cover gas and a meal...


----------



## Truman

Tips
*FeaturedWhy do we expect tips?*


*Because it is the right thing to do. It is an American tradition based on compassion and appreciation of service. Got it?*


----------



## Evilblues77

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


People who want a handout and don't want to put in the work.


----------



## DRider85

Maybe Uber Riders should pay 10-15 percent in tips. Help pay a little for gas.


----------



## sfodriver

hulksmash said:


> Lyft and other service providers tell customers "tips for excellent service are certainly not required but greatly appreciated"


No that's not true about Lyft. I drive for Lyft and the idea that they promote tipping is entirely false. Yes, they provide a place in the app to include a tip...it's on the driver rating screen at the end of a trip...but most passengers just get out of the car and never go back to the app, not even to rate the driver: they know that Lyft will just charge their payment method on file and call it a day.

Lyft likes to promote to drivers that tipping is acceptable and supported by the app but it just doesn't happen very frequently. If I do $700 in rides in a week I might get $40 in tips, that's 6%. Far from the 15-20% that other service people receive and our expenses are massive. Yesterday I grossed $102 and received $1 in tips. Not a typo and this is typical. Everyone received courteous service, professionalism, an efficient ride in a practically new (2015) clean car, and a good conversation (for those that wanted that). I got $1. Just one.


----------



## steveK2016

Truman said:


> Tips
> *FeaturedWhy do we expect tips?*
> 
> *Because it is the right thing to do. It is an American tradition based on compassion and appreciation of service. Got it?*


Actually, it's not an American tradition based on compassion or appreciation of service.

It was a European custom that was brought to the US after the Civil War and for several years, it was looked down upon as something undemocratic.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tipping-2015-10

It certainly wasn't based on compassion, but a way to show off their wealth and to bride servers to focus on them rather then others in the restaurant. Many of the anti-tipping proponents saw this as undemocratic, as all men are "created equal" and should be served equally in an egalitarian society.

We can thank Prohibition for making tipping the norm for restaurants. Lower profits due to loss of alcohol sales, restaurants started to encourage wait staff to take the tips to off set their loss in profits. Prohibition was wisely repealed, yet restaurants kept this archaic system of tipping...


----------



## Do tell

steveK2016 said:


> Actually, it's not an American tradition based on compassion or appreciation of service.
> 
> It was a European custom that was brought to the US after the Civil War and for several years, it was looked down upon as something undemocratic.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tipping-2015-10
> 
> It certainly wasn't based on compassion, but a way to show off their wealth and to bride servers to focus on them rather then others in the restaurant. Many of the anti-tipping proponents saw this as undemocratic, as all men are "created equal" and should be served equally in an egalitarian society.
> 
> We can thank Prohibition for making tipping the norm for restaurants. Lower profits due to loss of alcohol sales, restaurants started to encourage wait staff to take the tips to off set their loss in profits. Prohibition was wisely repealed, yet restaurants kept this archaic system of tipping...


Here is what I found Googling history of tipping in America.
*On the history of tipping in America:*

Tipping actually originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe.... When tips came to the United States in the late 1850s, 1860s, there was a massive anti-tipping movement. It was actually considered to be undemocratic, un-American.... Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves.... And this idea was codified into the first minimum wage law that passed in 1938 as part of the New Deal.... We went from a zero-dollar minimum wage in 1938 to a whopping $2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.

What I get from this article is,anyone who gets tipped is a slave.LOL


----------



## steveK2016

Do tell said:


> Here is what I found Googling history of tipping in America.
> *On the history of tipping in America:*
> 
> Tipping actually originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe.... When tips came to the United States in the late 1850s, 1860s, there was a massive anti-tipping movement. It was actually considered to be undemocratic, un-American.... Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves.... And this idea was codified into the first minimum wage law that passed in 1938 as part of the New Deal.... We went from a zero-dollar minimum wage in 1938 to a whopping $2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.
> 
> What I get from this article is,anyone who gets tipped is a slave.LOL


lots of compassion and appreciation in that brief history...


----------



## BillyTheKidd

Geno71 said:


> Saying "we work hard and Uber doesn't pay us enough" sounds like entitlement to me. Waiters and bartenders work on a different pay system, people working at McDonnalds make more per hour from the company than a waiter at a nice restaurant or a bartender at the club, they expected to be paid tips to actually make money and it's a motivator to do a better job. As Uber drivers, no one seems to feel motivated to do anything above the very minimum, am I wrong?
> 
> So let me say this again, I don't have anything against getting a tip. It feels good, sure. And sometimes it's stupid, I even talked in some of my posts about being tipped or not, like a guy who was a waiter and spent 10 minutes telling me how important tips are in his honest opinion and that he will make damn sure he'll tip me in the Uber app. I just laughed and wished he wouldn't talk about it at all. What I don't get it this sense of "a pax are a-holes, they don't tip, I rate them 1 for that..." The waiter guy still got a 5 from me, I probably should have tipped him (to be fair, I think he just didn't realize Uber app didn't have the option).
> 
> I don't hate tips, I love them. I'm not arguing against tips, I'm arguing against people that feel like they always deserve tips. You know who you are.
> 
> P.S. Was the Uber employee comment for me?


I have only read a handful of the posts in this thread (including your first 2 posts) and in both of your posts you strongly imply that Uber has a function in the app that riders can use to tip. This is not true and if you are a driver you know damn well it is not true.

Secondly, Uber SPECIFICALLY stated a couple years back "NO NEED TO TIP, THE TIP IS INCLUDED IN THE FARE". This was a flat out lie and Uber was sued. Many pax STILL think that the tip is included in the Uber fare.

If I went to a restaurant and the owner had a sign that stated this and the tip was actually not included in the meal and I did not tip I would be pissed off at the owner embarrassed for not tipping.

Now do you understand the issue?


----------



## Strange Fruit

Demon said:


> Uber says they are making minimum wage after expsense. I'm not saying I agree with Uber, just telling you what your partner says.
> 
> It is not customary to tip people who make minimum wage.


It IS customary in California. IN fact, SF has the highest minimum wage in the state (over $10, not that u can pay rent with that), and every emplolyer is required to pay minimum wage in CA, even to servers. And people tip servers, hair doers, taxis, all the usual suspects. IN SF thought, none to the Uber driver.

This is what happens to customs. Everybody just invents the reasons they think the custom is about. So this guy thinks "ah, since all the servers are paid below min wage, that's why we tip them". Correlation isn't always causation.


----------



## Strange Fruit

Grahamcracker said:


> Well, when I very first started driving over a year ago, the rates were set to include the tip. That is how Uber advertised it but when Uber lowered it's rates, it seems they took the built in tip away. It's a service industry in the US and in the service industry, we tip.


Really. I satarted in SF in Feb 2014, and there was never a tip included. As far as I know, I heard they added a percentage of fare for a tip to the previous Uber, which is now what is called Black. Before X for a few years, Uber was just an app to hale black drivers, like tcp# having drivers in town cars and such. Those guys had commercial insurance already too, so Uber didn't haven't to provide insurance as they do now.

Still, they could simply put the option in the app. It's kind of crazy they don't. What is their point?


----------



## Greguzzi

steveK2016 said:


> http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter/Waitress/Hourly_Rate
> 
> Because on average, wait staff get paid significantly less than minimum wage and truly rely on tips to make ends meat.
> 
> While I'd love to get tipped more, and I do get tipped often enough, I know my base earnings before tips is far greater than that of the average wait staff.


That guy is a ****ing asshole who wants to ban everything he disagrees with. Standard libgressive fascist mentality.


----------



## BillyTheKidd

Demon said:


> Show me a state that allows people to drive without insurance.


New Hampshire


----------



## BillyTheKidd

Demon said:


> We do? When was the last time you tipped staff at a fast food restaurant?


I tip at 5 Guys every time because they are friendly, prompt, have never screwed up my order, and have given me free fries or a milk shake on occasion.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Strange Fruit said:


> Really. I satarted in SF in Feb 2014, and there was never a tip included. As far as I know, I heard they added a percentage of fare for a tip to the previous Uber, which is now what is called Black. Before X for a few years, Uber was just an app to hale black drivers, like tcp# having drivers in town cars and such. Those guys had commercial insurance already too, so Uber didn't haven't to provide insurance as they do now.
> 
> Still, they could simply put the option in the app. It's kind of crazy they don't. What is their point?


Ok, I can't speak for SF but here in Honolulu it was advertised as tip being built into the cost of the fare.


----------



## steveK2016

Greguzzi said:


> That guy is a &%[email protected]!*ing asshole who wants to ban everything he disagrees with. Standard libgressive fascist mentality.


Again, most of his videos are just him pointing out how our perceptions of things we take as common as wrong. The only time he's ever actually advocated banning something is tipping, which is something most people wanted when tipping first started in America.

He has an episode where he supports trophy hunting for crying out loud!

just because you may not agree with all his points doesn't change the facts about the origins of tipping any why it's a terrible system.


----------



## CatchyMusicLover

Demon said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you mean but please list all the minimum wage or more employees you tip.


I mean they have to get payed minimum wage for the hours worked. So if you go to California and eat out, and you tip....you're tipping a "minimum wage or more employee"
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-laws-tipped-employees.html

Nevada too:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nevada-laws-tipped-employees.html

This is true in casinos as well -- go play some blackjack and tip the dealer. They are making minimum wage on top of those tips. I do poker dealing sometimes myself, we even got paid during breaks, even if they last an hour or more. As long as we're on the clock, we get that $8.25/hr (or more in some casinos) and any tips aren't even reported, just cashed in at the cage.


----------



## Rico Ramz

CatchyMusicLover said:


> I mean they have to get payed minimum wage for the hours worked. So if you go to California and eat out, and you tip....you're tipping a "minimum wage or more employee"
> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-laws-tipped-employees.html
> 
> Nevada too:
> http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nevada-laws-tipped-employees.html
> 
> This is true in casinos as well -- go play some blackjack and tip the dealer. They are making minimum wage on top of those tips. I do poker dealing sometimes myself, we even got paid during breaks, even if they last an hour or more. As long as we're on the clock, we get that $8.25/hr (or more in some casinos) and any tips aren't even reported, just cashed in at the cage.


Nice, you can be happy that you earn a decent living.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Oh ok, why don't you just eventually drive for free. Where do you feel entitled to receive any type of payment? Maybe you should pay the rider to drive them around. Wouldn't that be an honor?

Tips were built into the fare and when Uber lowered the fares they didn't add a tip option. Uber needs more drivers like you. You can drive me around for crumbs.


----------



## Geno71

Grahamcracker said:


> Oh ok, why don't you just eventually drive for free. Where do you feel entitled to receive any type of payment? Maybe you should pay the rider to drive them around. Wouldn't that be an honor?
> 
> Tips were built into the fare and when Uber lowered the fares they didn't add a tip option. Uber needs more drivers like you. You can drive me around for crumbs.


Well, when I decide it's not worth it, I'll just stop driving. This is not a job and we're not forced to do it. So far, I've been doing OK with an occasional tip here and there. If you feel like you can't justify it without tons of tips, maybe it's just not worth it in your market and you need to move on.


----------



## stephan

Tips is a must, not just appreciated, for 3$ you offer your time,your car ,gaz ,insurance, tears and wear and the don't have any benifits ,that's why I drive mostly at surge, 2x or more, uber 1/3 taxis fare and Uber drivers provide excellent service, uber must charge more than a taxi ,my friend took a cab 5 miles ,he paid 15$ , with uber 90 cent X 5 miles 4.5$ plus 10 minutes driving = 1$ , plus 1.7$ base fees goes to uber ,pax pay 7.2$ and very good fee for them, , and mesirable uber driver will get frim the sane trips 5.5$ ,- 25 percent, end up getting 4$ ,So pax must Tips, other wise you have to get real job and keep uber as an extra double income, if fees are high go drive, if not ,then just relax .lol


----------



## Iceagetlc

I tipped $2 for a short ride the other day and the driver actually said "wow, thank you so much" as if he hadn't seen a tip in weeks. This is La. Back on the east coast tips are a lot more common.


----------



## Steveyoungerthanmontana

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


This guy is dumb as crap. Waiters and bartenders make minimum wage and are expected to get tips. UBER drivers are picking you up in their own private car, paying for gas, giving you free water and candy, and all what has been stated all over America, as less than minimum wage. Where do these dumb Uber drivers come from? I swear you people hate yourselves, your complaining about what should be expected, more money in your pocket!!!! Just write an email to Travis Kalanick and ask him if can be spanked harder. Travis Kalanick is literally laughing all the way to the bank, republican high school drop outs keep signing up.


----------



## Truman

steveK2016 said:


> Actually, it's not an American tradition based on compassion or appreciation of service.
> 
> It was a European custom that was brought to the US after the Civil War and for several years, it was looked down upon as something undemocratic.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tipping-2015-10
> 
> It certainly wasn't based on compassion, but a way to show off their wealth and to bride servers to focus on them rather then others in the restaurant. Many of the anti-tipping proponents saw this as undemocratic, as all men are "created equal" and should be served equally in an egalitarian society.
> 
> We can thank Prohibition for making tipping the norm for restaurants. Lower profits due to loss of alcohol sales, restaurants started to encourage wait staff to take the tips to off set their loss in profits. Prohibition was wisely repealed, yet restaurants kept this archaic system of tipping...


Like many American Traditions it originated in England. So? The United States itself was born from England.

Tipping was English and Now it's an American tradition.
No more archaic than the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence.


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


You must be a cheap rider!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

UberAnt39 said:


> Why do Uber employees keep creating new IDs here? Where does their sense of entitlement come from?


Another rider..lol


----------



## Steveyoungerthanmontana

Iceagetlc said:


> I tipped $2 for a short ride the other day and the driver actually said "wow, thank you so much" as if he hadn't seen a tip in weeks. This is La. Back on the east coast tips are a lot more common.


I average 15 dollars in tips a month, maybe 20 if I'm lucky. It's pitiful. The delivery part of the app, I'd deliver someone food, they'd come up and just take the food from me like they never even tipped a delivery guy before. ALL deliveries for food are always tipped, yet UBER tells em they don't need to.


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

Geno71 said:


> Saying "we work hard and Uber doesn't pay us enough" sounds like entitlement to me. Waiters and bartenders work on a different pay system, people working at McDonnalds make more per hour from the company than a waiter at a nice restaurant or a bartender at the club, they expected to be paid tips to actually make money and it's a motivator to do a better job. As Uber drivers, no one seems to feel motivated to do anything above the very minimum, am I wrong?
> 
> So let me say this again, I don't have anything against getting a tip. It feels good, sure. And sometimes it's stupid, I even talked in some of my posts about being tipped or not, like a guy who was a waiter and spent 10 minutes telling me how important tips are in his honest opinion and that he will make damn sure he'll tip me in the Uber app. I just laughed and wished he wouldn't talk about it at all. What I don't get it this sense of "a pax are a-holes, they don't tip, I rate them 1 for that..." The waiter guy still got a 5 from me, I probably should have tipped him (to be fair, I think he just didn't realize Uber app didn't have the option).
> 
> I don't hate tips, I love them. I'm not arguing against tips, I'm arguing against people that feel like they always deserve tips. You know who you are.
> 
> P.S. Was the Uber employee comment for me?


crawl in your cave


----------



## melusine3

Maksim said:


> I would not rate a passenger a 1 star for not tipping but...
> 
> Taxicabs get tips
> Car service gets tips
> Limo drivers get tips...
> 
> Why shouldn't an uber driver making $8 an hour not get tips?
> 
> As others said, when UBER can in, rates were worthwhile.
> 
> Since dropping rates.... it is a min wage job.
> 
> What are tips for? I think an UBER driver who provides a clean car, safe driving and a good chat deserves a TIP more than a waiter who screws up your order and doesn't give a rats ass about you.
> 
> Tips are there to reward good to great service.


In my case, it is often far less than minimum wage and if it weren't for Lyft, it would be. Driving for Lyft always increases my nightly average. But not by much.


----------



## melusine3

FL_Dex said:


> When Uber first started the driver pay was higher and tipping really wasn't necessary. Since then Uber has increased their take and cut rates. The company's evolution on cutting driver compensation was very fast, reversing their stance on tipping was very slow and lukewarm at best.
> 
> Right now drivers are not being compensated at rates that reflect the actual expense of operating a car. Tips are how you bridge that gap in the service industry.
> 
> I had a pax last night, a flight attendant for Jet Blue, who took me 40 minutes out of a profitable area to the middle of nowhere and a guaranteed deadhead back to civilization. Personally, I think that rated a $10 minimum for a tip but she just walked off. She was nice, so that's a choice between 2* and 3*. I gave her 3* because she was at least personable. Another guy going 35 minutes the other way wanted a custom route and a stop at McDonalds drive through. That should be an automatic $5. He thought giving me a 5* was enough of a tip. 2* for him.
> 
> Most pax get it. They look at what they're paying and understand drivers can't be making shit at those rates. Sometimes they duck out because they don't have any cash, I cut them some slack. Other times they are the merely thoughtless mixed in with a few who are just being a-holes. The thoughtless and the dicks get low ratings and I sleep just fine.


To be fair, most of these people believe the Uber Lie that we're making thousands a week. Honestly. Perhaps they delude themselves into believing that, but that's what is happening.


----------



## Coffeekeepsmedriving

melusine3 said:


> In my case, it is often far less than minimum wage and if it weren't for Lyft, it would be. Driving for Lyft always increases my nightly average. But not by much.


I rate them 1 star for not tipping...Too Bad


----------



## yeahTHATuberGVL

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


It's the same entitlement a waiter gets. They get the job knowing that the wage is low, but with a hope that tips will offset that. A shoeshine guy or barber posts a price, but still gets a tip if he's personable, efficient, and does a great job. A DUI costs you $10k in SC, so a $5 tip is small pittance to thank me for keeping you out of court.


----------



## FL_Dex

melusine3 said:


> To be fair, most of these people believe the Uber Lie that we're making thousands a week.


In my conversations with pax many of them believe the tip is included in the fare and are surprised to find out it's not.

Uber needs to do more to change the tip culture.


----------



## yeahTHATuberGVL

Demon said:


> If you can't set your own rates, you're not an independent contractor.


We're more like franchisees, really. We accept the tech, then kickback royalties for operation.


----------



## Phatzman

tohunt4me said:


> Why do waiters and bartenders expect tips ?


Because Society has conditioned them and consumers. Everyone has a choice for the job they do and tipping is a choice, not a requirement. Does not matter what job you do. This scene from 'Reservoir Dogs' explains it perfectly -


----------



## Phatzman

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


I commend you for posting this. Tips are "extra" and should only be given based on the the level of service given. Not because "I don't get paid enough". No one forces us to Uber drive or do other jobs that pay low and "rely on tips".


----------



## tr41l3rtr4sh

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


I don't ever expect tips but the problem all began when Uber straight up lied and said that tips aren't necessary and that it was already included in the fare. That's not helping the drivers situation especially after all the rate cuts. All I have ever seen was the the amount of the fare minus Uber's 25% cut. Nothing about tips. A rider today told me to wait a minute after reaching his destination and he specifically said "I know tips are already included but here's a little extra" and hands me a $100 bill. I was like WTF! Are you serious and thanked him. I even pulled over after I left to make sure it was real.


----------



## twobucca2

UberAnt39 said:


> Why do Uber employees keep creating new IDs here? Where does their sense of entitlement come from?


 We call that an "uber shill" post.

They're all over this website. I wonder how much they get paid per post?


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## Drivingthecattlehome

jonhjax said:


> Excuse me, my math is wrong. Uber pays drivers here $.5625 per mile base wage. That comes out to $26.25 per mile . Still less than minimum wage.


Absolutely correct Foolsber doesn't pay minimum wage. Some drivers should pass their maths class. Oh hang on, thats the sort of driver Foolsber wants. One that can't add up and is desperate enough to be a fool thinking he/she is actually making good coin......Hahaha.


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## ZombieKC

I got a excellent tip last week in my brand new car one of my pax I have no clue which one had dumped nacho cheese in my back seat then must have sat in in smearing it into my seat .


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## ZombieKC

Back it up Uber said:


> You need to stop driving immediately! This job is definitely not for you. Guy gives you a $5 tip and you rate him a 2? Lol wow


Wow to you actually you have no clue do you I had very very rude shitty passengers that tip me tipping me doesn't allow someone to treat you like shit and curse you out because they are high or drunk I will take your tip and give you a bad rating if you are shitty to me.


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## LadyDi

20 tip last night on a less than 10 min trip. THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUU SIR!! (and he was offended by the "sir" politeness. Ah well...)


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## Rico Ramz

Uber drivers are not subsidized by uber.


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## Back it up Uber

ZombieKC said:


> Wow to you actually you have no clue do you I had very very rude shitty passengers that tip me tipping me doesn't allow someone to treat you like shit and curse you out because they are high or drunk I will take your tip and give you a bad rating if you are shitty to me.


First off, it's insanely rare that a pax is going to treat you like crap and curse at you, then turn around and tip.

2nd, go to your safe place, buttercup!


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## Missct234

Fuzzyelvis said:


> It's the same reason I'll be nice as pie to someone on a long surge trip, but am barely polite to someone on a trip I'm making less than $3.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I am Always nice to My customers and give them 5 stars without tips if they are pleasant and nice. UBER kind of sets it up that no tipping is necessary, and if we don't like
> The way it works I guess we all have the option to leave. I drove my first New Year's Eve last night and it sucked...too Many drivers, and I didn't get calls even when a surge was happening all around me. But this is a choice I made so ...anyway, my point being, I had 18
> Rides in 9.5 hours and only made $90 and $10-$15 in tips. I took one LYFT call, because I had driven in circles in a surge area with no calls for
> Almost 15 min., and made $55 and a $10
> Tip.
Click to expand...


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## Geno71

And again it goes both ways... you complaining here that people don't tip you just because, is just as cheap and greedy as those people not tipping. Yes it's true, most people use Uber and Lyft because they want their ride to be as cheap as possible , why do you guys think driving for Uber will make you rich? You drive for the cheapest option out there so you make the least money. It's the reality of this business.

P.S. I'm not a rider, I'm a driver too. I just know that I make just a little bit of spending cash, I will never think of it as anything more than that.


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## Strange Fruit

Grahamcracker said:


> Oh ok, why don't you just eventually drive for free. Where do you feel entitled to receive any type of payment? Maybe you should pay the rider to drive them around. Wouldn't that be an honor?
> 
> Tips were built into the fare and when Uber lowered the fares they didn't add a tip option. Uber needs more drivers like you. You can drive me around for crumbs.


You realize that every market is different, and arguing about making crumbs across markets is ludicrous. Geno isn't even in Hawaii, much less Honolulu. Not everyone feels they make "crumbs". Do you know this how some of the higher IQ people spot who isn't worth paying attention to? Those like Geno who can form a reasoned statement (whether you agree or disagree with him it's a reasoned statement*). And those like you who just say some derduhderdhuder with no thought, or even a cleverless to make something funny out of what yr saying instead of a reasoned point. What's the point of what yr saying?

*and why am I explaining something like this? Why? I have a problem. I'm working on it. It's a new year.


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## Grahamcracker

Strange Fruit said:


> You realize that every market is different, and arguing about making crumbs across markets is ludicrous.


Yes I do realize every market is different.



Strange Fruit said:


> Not everyone feels they make "crumbs".


 The markets here in Honolulu are decent. However, I am siding with the thousands of people who claim less than minimum wage. I have read several posts by Geno putting people down who voice their opinion as to why they should be tipped. So, the purpose of my whole message was for him to have a taste of his own dish.



Strange Fruit said:


> Do you know this how some of the higher IQ people spot who isn't worth paying attention to?


Well, I'll take that as a compliment because basically you just proved by wring me this nice, pretty, well written message that I am worth your attention. Thank you!



Strange Fruit said:


> What's the point of what yr saying?


Already stated above. Have a Happy New Years to you as well.


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## 58756

I turned the tips into a separate business of its own. I would go to Sam's club and buy various treats and then I would put them in rear seat holder so when someone takes a red bull I see $5 tip. So the red bull wholesale cost me cheap but I benefit almost $5 from each one they drink so it's like a side business. Here look at my setup.


http://imgur.com/EjVqGvG


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## Geno71

Grahamcracker said:


> Yes I do realize every market is different.
> 
> The markets here in Honolulu are decent. However, I am siding with the thousands of people who claim less than minimum wage. I have read several posts by Geno putting people down who voice their opinion as to why they should be tipped. So, the purpose of my whole message was for him to have a taste of his own dish.
> 
> Well, I'll take that as a compliment because basically just proved by wring me this nice, pretty, well written message that I am worth your attention. Thank you!
> 
> Already stated above. Have a Happy New Years to you as well.


Mmm, tasty. Thanks

I didn't mean to put anyone down with my posts. I apologize if I made you feel that way.


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## RamzFanz

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


*Can my driver ask for a tip?*

As independent contractors, drivers may request tips at their discretion.

Drivers care about rider ratings and do their best to create an ideal trip experience. While Uber does not require riders to offer drivers a cash tip, you are welcome to do so. Should you choose to tip, your driver is welcome to accept or decline.

Please note that the trip fare charged to your payment account does not include a gratuity. - *Uber*


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## LadyDi

RamzFanz said:


> *Can my driver ask for a tip?*
> 
> As independent contractors, drivers may request tips at their discretion.
> 
> Drivers care about rider ratings and do their best to create an ideal trip experience. While Uber does not require riders to offer drivers a cash tip, you are welcome to do so. Should you choose to tip, your driver is welcome to accept or decline.
> 
> Please note that the trip fare charged to your payment account does not include a gratuity. - *Uber*


Where is this wording RamzFanz?

I was asked by a rider "can we tip?". And I asked "why not, we provide a service, yes??". He thought on it and told me yes while exiting with the "sorry I don't have any cash as I would have tipped you." I have square and paypal readers but didn't want to go through the late night troubles. I seriously need to re-think this "tip" thing to my benefit.


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## Rico Ramz

Geno71 said:


> And again it goes both ways... you complaining here that people don't tip you just because, is just as cheap and greedy as those people not tipping. Yes it's true, most people use Uber and Lyft because they want their ride to be as cheap as possible , why do you guys think driving for Uber will make you rich? You drive for the cheapest option out there so you make the least money. It's the reality of this business.
> 
> P.S. I'm not a rider, I'm a driver too. I just know that I make just a little bit of spending cash, I will never think of it as anything more than that.


Good for you! Any business should be profitable and people have the right to let their grievances known and even sue the low lifes like the uber company, because that is the only side they have shown towards their partners, low life, exploiting, condescending and arrogant. I am very pleased that the State of California, shut down their unilateral launch of autonomous cars, because it was about time someone put a stop to these idiots at uber tech, that the people are not going to let them get way with their arrogance and lies about uber being some kind of magic bullet that is going to cure the traffic woes, because it is not! Its a businesses and right now the drivers are the ones subsidizing the cheap fares, uber pays absolutely nothing to drivers, we make the money and without drivers uber would be nothing. Instead of uber tech making driving with uber awesome all the time, uber drivers have to take uber to court to make uber give some of the money they steal from drivers, back to drivers and uber has lost many lawsuits already, which just enforces the notion that they have been ripping off drivers to make them selves millionaires. Just because morons like you say that if drivers are unhappy, just quit, people are not going to quit, if people think its worth the fight they will and should fight for what's right.


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## Drivingthecattlehome

NO TIP, NO FIVE STAR FOR PAX. SOUNDS FAIR.


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## Drivingthecattlehome

Rico Ramz said:


> Good for you, but most people are not as dumb a tool as you! Any business should be profitable and people have the right to let their grievances known and even sue the low lifes like the uber company, because that is the only side they have shown towards their partners, low life, exploiting, condescending and arrogant. I am very pleased that the State of California, shut down their unilateral launch of autonomous cars, because it was about time someone put a stop to these idiots at uber tech, that the people are not going to let them get way with their arrogance and lies about uber being some kind of magic bullet that is going to cure the traffic woes, because it is not! Its a businesses and right now the drivers are the ones subsidizing the cheap fares, uber pays absolutely nothing to drivers, we make the money and without drivers uber would be nothing. Instead of uber tech making driving with uber awesome all the time, uber drivers have to take uber to court to make uber give some of the money they steal from drivers, back to drivers and uber has lost many lawsuits already, which just enforces the notion that they have been ripping off drivers to make them selves millionaires. Just because morons like you say that if drivers are unhappy, just quit, people are not going to quit, if people think its worth the fight they will and should fight for what's right.


Well said. Who is the moron defending Foolsber. Oh yeh thats a foolsber employee disgusting as a driver.


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## crazytown

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


This is part of the service industry, do you tip the pizza delivery guy, or the waiter,???
What kind of dumb question is this?
You got to be uber hq


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## Geno71

Funny how you guys want to call me names just because you don't like what I'm saying. Truth hurts, and I'm sorry for hurting your feelings Rico and Co.

I don't know why you're mad at me, you should be mad at yourself for having unrealistic expectations. Face the reality and you'll probably be happier or stop talking about "fighting" and actually do something.

Which one is it gonna be?


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## Rico Ramz

ZombieKC said:


> I got a excellent tip last week in my brand new car one of my pax I have no clue which one had dumped nacho cheese in my back seat then must have sat in in smearing it into my seat .


The worst are the ones leaving your seats smelling like ass! I carry carpet cleaner spray and leather cleaner just in case.


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## Grahamcracker

Geno71 said:


> Funny how you guys want to call me names just because you don't like what I'm saying. Truth hurts, and I'm sorry for hurting your feelings Rico and Co.
> 
> I don't know why you're mad at me, you should be mad at yourself for having unrealistic expectations. Face the reality and you'll probably be happier or stop talking about "fighting" and actually do something.
> 
> Which one is it gonna be?


Uber's pet


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## Lionslover

Geno71 said:


> I drive from around 6pm to 12:30-1am on Fridays and 4-5pm to 12:30-1am on Saturdays. I deal with drunk people and college kids, like it makes any difference. I did around 400 rides, drive every weekend, yeah, not a vet like some of you hardcore people, but again, that makes no difference here.
> 
> Look around, I'm saying you're not entitled and you guys are fighting with me with "yes I am because..." arguments. My complain it that I think you're doing it wrong and you're only making it harder for yourself with that mentality. Enjoy tips when you get them, put up signs to get more, that's ok too. All the posts here complaining about how riders are dicks for not tipping and how drivers rate them low for that are what prompted me to post my opinion.


400 rides isn't that many,and I don't care if riders tip me or not,either way most of them are cheap pricks.


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## roadman

Geno71 said:


> Maybe it's geographical thing, but minimum wage in Pittsburgh is $7.25 per hour, I easily make 2-3 times that on any average night with Uber or Lyft. If you're truly making that minimum wage of whatever it is in your area, then why are you wasting your time with Uber? I know I would not do it for $7.25. And remember, that's $7.25 before they pay their income tax and expenses. Even after I take out taxes, gas and other expenses, I'm left with over $10 per hour, and some tips. True minimum wage workers are left with like $4, and no tips.


When I take out expenses I am less then minimum wage. Highest rating I give is 4 if there is no tip. If i have to wait at all I give a 3 star max. My intent is to disrupt the system for the non tipping and the make you wait riders.


----------



## Do tell

Geno71 said:


> Funny how you guys want to call me names just because you don't like what I'm saying. Truth hurts, and I'm sorry for hurting your feelings Rico and Co.
> 
> I don't know why you're mad at me, you should be mad at yourself for having unrealistic expectations. Face the reality and you'll probably be happier or stop talking about "fighting" and actually do something.
> 
> Which one is it gonna be?


I agree,no one should resort to name-calling or bashing because of different opinions.They're counterproductive for a rational conversation.But I see how some of your posts appears to be antagonistic as are many of mine.But I do jest.Let's all hope for a more prosperous 2017,including tipping.LOL


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## Lyftonly

Tipping should be mandatory. Im providing a valuable service cheaper then the taxi industry, im saving lives and preventing DUI's. Im giving people rides when nobody else will. Tipping should be mandatory, anyone who disagrees can go to hell. Literally


----------



## Lyftonly

Geno71 said:


> Reading the forums, I see a trend. A lot of drivers talk about tips like it's expected and riders are a-holes for not tipping. People talk about rating "non-tippers" low, which race tips or doesn't tip, comparing driving to waiting tables and so on...
> 
> When we sign up for Uber or Lyft, no where was it guaranteed, promised or even implied that we will be getting tips. Both apps show in their own way that tips are possible, with Lyft doing a little bit better job at that, but nothing out there points to the idea that we "deserve" to be tipped for just doing the driving.
> 
> I know about the expenses, and about all the ways Uber is screwing drivers, but I don't count on and don't expect tips, that way when I get them it's a nice surprise, I appreciate them, but don't get bent out of shape when I don't.
> 
> Where does this sense of entitlement is coming from?


Hey dip Sh!t lyft's primary source of appealing to sign up drivers is tips. Gtfo of here saying no where is it implied.


----------



## Do tell

Here's a funny kitten video,I mean tipping video.lol


----------



## Geno71

Lyftonly said:


> Tipping should be mandatory. Im providing a valuable service cheaper then the taxi industry, im saving lives and preventing DUI's. Im giving people rides when nobody else will. Tipping should be mandatory, anyone who disagrees can go to hell. Literally


If tipping is mandatory then it's not a tip, it's part of the fare. I can understand wanting to make more, but you're not owed tips from riders.

You guys think too highly of yourself, you're providing valuable fast food like service, and you get paid accordingly.


----------



## Geno71

Lionslover said:


> 400 rides isn't that many...


Soooo what? How many rides are enough to have an opinion?


----------



## Geno71

Rico Ramz said:


> Go back to uber headquarters, to rethink your putdown, beatdown strategies, cry baby.


Hey Rico, so what's your plan buddy? How are we going to take the fight to Uber or are you just going to keep attacking some random guy on the internet for saying something you disagree with? That's what I thought... where are you going to send me next?


----------



## Lyftonly

Geno71 said:


> If tipping is mandatory then it's not a tip, it's part of the fare. I can understand wanting to make more, but you're not owed tips from riders.
> 
> You guys think too highly of yourself, you're providing valuable fast food like service, and you get paid accordingly.


No fk head im not thinking to highly of myself. I am listing facts. Tipping should be mandatory just like some restaurant's charge the mandatory gratuity


----------



## Do tell

Geno71 said:


> Hey Rico, so what's your plan buddy? How are we going to take the fight to Uber or are you just going to keep attacking some random guy on the internet for saying something you disagree with? That's what I thought... where are you going to send me next?


It's a little long but here's a compilation cat vs dog fighting video.Some of these posts make me laugh like this video.


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## Geno71

Lyftonly said:


> No fk head im not thinking to highly of myself. I am listing facts. Tipping should be mandatory just like some restaurant's charge the mandatory gratuity


Sounds like you are. Btw, this thread was a complaint about this kind of entitlement, you're just adding to it.


----------



## Back it up Uber

Geno71 said:


> If tipping is mandatory then it's not a tip, it's part of the fare. I can understand wanting to make more, but you're not owed tips from riders.
> 
> You guys think too highly of yourself, you're providing valuable fast food like service, and you get paid accordingly.


You wonder why you keep getting bashed but you keep making comments like this, so you deserve all the bashing you get. Driving for Uber is in no way remotely close to being a fast food worker.


----------



## Geno71

Hm really? There are people that agree with me as well, only those who get too butt hurt feel like they should bash another poster on the community forums. As far as transportation goes, yes, we're the fast food of the this business.

Some of you see yourselves as these knights in shinning armor (Spark or Versa, maybe a Prius) saving people from DUIs, giving out cheap gum and delighting your passengers with complaints about how you're making no money with Uber, then asking for 5 star ratings and tips... I mean is that not correct? Give me a break


----------



## Back it up Uber

Geno71 said:


> Hm really? There are people that agree with me as well, only those who get too butt hurt feel like they should bash another poster on the community forums. As far as transportation goes, yes, we're the fast food of the business.
> 
> Some of you see yourselves as these knights in shinning armor (Spark or Versa, maybe a Prius) saving people from DUIs, giving out cheap gum and delighting your passengers with complaints about how you're making no money with Uber, then ask for 5 star ratings and tips... I mean is that not correct? Give me a break


Nope, bus drivers are similar to a fast food worker. They have a specific job just like fast food workers. It doesn't vary like uber drivers, cab drivers, servers and delivery driver.


----------



## Monkeyboy

tohunt4me said:


> Why do waiters and bartenders expect tips ?


Because they are paid $2.13 an hour, and only assholes don't tip.


----------



## tohunt4me

Monkeyboy said:


> Because they are paid $2.13 an hour, and only assholes don't tip.


What would that make someone who wrote a no tip policy that he himself didn't have to live by ?


----------



## Lionslover

Geno71 said:


> Soooo what? How many rides are enough to have an opinion?


Youve had enough rides once someone has vomited,pissed and shit in your car.


----------



## Geno71

Spmeone took a shit in your car? Man I'm sorry. Did they tip?


----------



## Lionslover

Geno71 said:


> Spmeone took a shit in your car? Man I'm sorry. Did they tip?


Yea they did,their tip was $150.


----------



## Geno71

Right. Well I had someone vomit in and on my car. Also $150 "tip". Am I good then?


----------



## Lionslover

Geno71 said:


> Right. Well I had someone vomit in and on my car. Also $150 "tip". Am I good then?


Why didn't you pay for it yourself?you seem like a big shot.


----------



## Geno71

Is that what you think? Actually looks I'm the one accepting that I'm not a big shot, you guys have a hard time realizing that, and that's your problem.

Plus I only did like 400 trips, what do I know.

What a joke. So tell me, why do you expect tips?


----------



## Geno71

Who's next?


----------



## SibeRescueBrian

Since you guys can't play nice, this thread is now locked.


----------

