# Need help finding UE only insurance



## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

So I’m trying to get properly insured for UE only (in Ontario, Canada) and I’m finding it quite impossible.

I’ve talked to about a dozen commercial beokerages and they all outright refuse to cover any food delivery at any price. My insurance record is perfect so it’s not about that.

The only company I found that would cover UE at all under any circumstances was bel air direct but ONLY if you also do pax. They will insure both together but not UE alone. I asked them if I could just have a pax account without using it and they said no, I have to do pax regularly and they check. I absolutely do not want to do any rideshare so this isn’t really an option.

Does anyone know the name of ANY company or brokerage that will insure food deliveries (Facility doesn’t count)?


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

I am only answering as to how it is in the US:

You do not need to get Commercial insurance and specifying UE. UE provides the applicable insurance needed. What you have to have is full auto insurance ALLOWING commercial use of the vehicle. Most personal auto insurance policies do not allow any commercial use of the vehicle, unless you have what is called a rideshare "rider" on top of the policy.


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## Rdy4thdl (Jul 17, 2018)

I'm in the exact same position as the OP. Do eats only and can't get insurance. The one place i can tell you that will NOT help is Uber itself. No advice, recommendation or any assistance from them directly. Just the canned statement "drivers to provide their own commercial insurance", which as you can see is not available to us (except facility, apparantly). So my question to Uber was how many drivers are out there without the proper insurance? The answer is everyone who does eats exclusively. Uber does not seem to care about that.....


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

BigJohn - getting a commercial ryder is the obvious choice, but the availability of such varies tremendously by jurisdiction. They are commonly available all over the US but almost impossible to get in Canada for most purposes. We are way beyond that though in my jurisdiction. Not only can we not get ryders on personal policies, we can't even get full commercial insurance at all!

There's this thing called facility which has to provide insurance for everyone by law. It exists for people that can't get insured by anyone else (usually because their record is horrendous due to multiple at fault accidents etc). That place will insure UE...for like $12k/year lol (my personal policy costs $800 for full everything).

The part about Uber covering you for UE is complete BS, regardless of market. If they told you that they are 100% lying and/or stupid/incompetent. Uber only provides supplemental coverage for its passenger service. They provide nothing for UE. If you ask them about it they will give you vague non-answers and send you home. They literally refuse to talk about it. They will not answer simple point blank questions, at all.

The one and only option is to use bel-air direct and sign up for passenger service alongside UE as that is their requirement. Even bel-air's parent company (Impact) doesn't offer the UE option. This however is not a real option either, even if you begrudgingly accept doing passenger service some of the time - for the simple reason that the moment you have a hybrid account (PAX+UE), you automatically get 2nd priority on UE pings, which obviously will totally screw you if you want to do mostly eats.

So there are effectively ZERO tennable options for a well meaning person trying to do the right thing. They literally won't let you do the right thing. In fact, as I found the hard way - the mere attempt to do the right thing could get you royally screwed, if you accidentally tip off your insurance company about what you are/might be doing with your car.

Imagine this scenario. You are at fault for a major accident with injuries. The adjustor finds out you do UE in 2 seconds, retroactively cancels your policy and denies all your claims. You are now entirely on the hook for millions$$ in damages. This is the risk that every single UE driver in Ontario faces every time they go online.

I find it utterly outrageous that this state of affairs could possibly exist, and in Canada of all places? I thought we were cool! It can be categorically proven that Uber is operating this arm of their business illegaly (as there is no other way). Apparently this is fine with all levels of government and all other interested parties?

The best part is 99% of UE drivers don't have a single clue what kind of danger they are messing with until something happens and they find out how incredibly screwed they are because they tried to make $5 on a delivery.

Maybe though, just maybe if we put our heads together we can figure something out...a lot of smart people in this community! Let's do it.
My only idea right now is to go down to my local MPs office and chew them up for a few hours, big league - but that's a major longshot.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

PEOPLE, please do not look at this as a UE problem. IT is not. It is a delivery problem. Amazon Flex, UE, DoorDash, Postmates, pizza delivery, GrubHub Eats24 etc so forth and so on.

ALL of those are commercial use of a vehicle covered by a personal auto insurance policy that in most cases specifically precludes ANY commercial use of the vehicle under that policy.

Can some one in Canada confirm whether or not the actual language of a personal auto insurance policy specifically precludes commercial usage?


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Yes that is correct. It applies to all food delivery not just UE. However, one major caveat is that there is a difference between app based services and traditional ones like pizza delivery. With the brick and mortar places you can usually get insured via the company’s commercial fleet insurance.

Something UE should and could setup but they don’t, so I will go ahead and directly fault them for not doing that. I will do the same for skip, dash and all the other apps on an individual basis. “But the other apps don’t have fleet insurance” is not an excuse for UE not having it - so it’s still a problem specific to UE that they could solve on their own.

And yes I can confirm the language specifically precludes ALL commercial use in no uncertain terms.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

No, back up a minute. Regardless of whether or not the company you are doing delivery service for as an independent contractor, that has no affect on a clause in a personal insurance policy specifically excluding any commercial usage of the covered vehicle UNLESS that clause is so written that is ALLOWS commercial use of the vehicle but will not cover ANY accidents and/or incidents during the time of commercial use.

Those are 2 major different meanings.

So going back to your example of a brick and motor pizza company: While the pizza company may have insurance to full cover the "EMPLOYEE's" personal vehicle while in use for company business, such use would STILL be in violation of a personal auto insurance policy that specifically excludes ANY commercial use of the covered vehicle.

It has just never been an issue and never been acted upon since it was such a small usage pattern.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

You could be correct on that point, I haven’t fully investigated the non-owned fleet insurance angle.

One thing I can confirm for sure is the language in my personal policy does indeed specifically exclude all commercial usage of the covered vehicle. So IF the pizza place’s fleet insurance operates like UberX supplemental coverage and only covers you while on the job, then you would definitely be violating the terms of your personal coverage.

Based on my current understanding though it does not actually work like that, or at least can be set up to not work like that. If you go under company’s non-owned commercial insurance you are fully covered for personal and commercial use and do not need a personal policy as that would be redundant.

Perhaps an actual pizza guy that’s done this directly could chime in and clarify.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

You are missing the point. It is not up to what ever insurance is being provided by the company you are doing work for, whether as an independent contractor or employee. It is up to your existing personal auto insurance policy as to whether or not you are violating the policy. THAT policy is in black and white. That is what some many who try to blame everything on Uber just do not get. Uber or DoorDash or a pizza company nor their insurance providers CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ON YOUR personal auto insurance policy. IF that policy unconditionally excludes all commercial use of a covered vehicle, then by the letter of the law from a purely technical standpoint, ANY commercial use of that vehicle then VIOLATES that personal auto insurance policy, which then CAN trigger cancelation of the policy including possibly retroactive to a time when it can be proven that violation occurred.

Let me put in another way using an analogy:

Trying to say this is an Uber problem is like saying the dealer is not replacing your brand new tires on your car when the problem is you were burning out in them every Saturday night.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Actually I’m pretty sure I understood you the first time and it is in fact you who is missing the point. I agree that nothing stated in a different policy will change anything about your personal policy.

What I’m saying is that if Uber got themselves the right non-owned fleet insurance - all of their drivers could then get FULL coverage through that and cancel their personal policies, thus precluding any and all conflicts. How can you violate the terms of your personal policy if you cancel it and get fully covered by a different policy?

As I said though I didn’t look into the fleet insurance angle that closely so I could be mistaken about something but I do remember speaking to one of the commercial brokers about “hybrid insurance” (personal+commercial on the same policy but through a full commercial underwriter) being available through fleet policies.

Or stated another way - a company’s fleet policy allows for the possibility of full hybrid coverage to be extended to non-owned vehicles for an additional premium based on the driver’s record. This wouldn’t otherwise be an option to individual persons.

No need to speculate though, I will make some more calls and find out for sure and I’ll report back.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

But what you are suggesting will never happen. Nor would any commercial insurance underwriter allow that. And that is not just Uber, but any time there is a company - independent contractor situation involving use of a personal vehicle.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

I actually just called a few places and got the download on this. You are correct, commercial underwrites won't do that. This is the way it works:

The company's fleet insurance covers you while on the job (liability only). Off the job you must have proper personal coverage. Most insurance companies don't allow this and have specific language outlawing it. Apparently there are some that do allow it with a ryder for an additional premium. The ryder doesn't grant you any extra coverage, just "allows" you to be covered by another policy while on the job. I haven't found any specific companies that will issue such a ryder but the broker assured me there are a few and I'd have to call around and ask each one directly.

There is the new issue of apparently not being able to get collision/comprehensive whilst on the job...


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you for taking the time and effort to verify facts. Too many people just take an attitude of everything is Uber's fault.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

No need to thank me but I appreciate it. I’m all about the facts! We’re all here to help each other succeed not stroke egos right?

Anyway we cleared up a few things but the fundamental problem still exists - how do I get proper coverage for UE?


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## massey (Jul 7, 2018)

UberAdrian said:


> So I'm trying to get properly insured for UE only (in Ontario, Canada) and I'm finding it quite impossible.
> 
> I've talked to about a dozen commercial beokerages and they all outright refuse to cover any food delivery at any price. My insurance record is perfect so it's not about that.
> 
> ...


i did not know about blairdirect covering ride share policy . because i am looking for rideshare insurance 
you can also check with aviva insurane, but you have to qualify for it


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