# What fixes would cure cherry-picking?



## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?

Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.

It's been my experience that a typical driver will begin to burn out after 20 trips and likely be happy getting apx $250-$300 a day steadily with deadheading and costs as little as possible for maximum profit.

In my experience one can be doing 20 small trips in 10 hours and make only $200 almost zero deadheading, when they can do 2 long trips in 8 hours for $400 but deadhead back each time, thus their costs are double.

So based upon your driving experience, how would you design the alogrithm and software to balance the needs of both drivers and customers?

How would you design it to keep drivers from abusing it?

Would you give drivers total control, advanced notice of trips and hungry hippo it? (Whomever clicks first wins).

How about daisy chaining trips?

How would you fix scheduling? Should it be based upon how many drivers and how close they are that scheduled short trips should be disallowed? Or just decrease the driver waiting time?

Just throwing out some issues out there to see, based upon a driver experience viewpoint, how you as a driver solve these problems or a totally new method altogether.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


Raising rates would cure cherrypicking.

If even shorties paid well then drivers would accept almost everything.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?


You can't.

What's best for the drivers is full transparency and much higher pay rates, both of which will require at least some customers to pay more and/or potentially wait longer for rides and deliveries.



ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.


It's only a "problem" for Uber and the pax because both have benefitted spectacularly from the lack of cherrypicking by drivers as a result of having destinations hidden from the drivers.

ALL drivers should screen their rides. By doing so garbage rides won't be "passed" onto them and driver pay will increase.



ObeyTheNumbers said:


> How would you design it to keep drivers from abusing it?


I've seen that question/statement many times and it's a real peeve of mine, especially when it's said by drivers. There's no such thing as "abusing" it. There's nothing unethical whatsoever about drivers declining trips that don't work for them, period. The only "abuse" here is self-abuse by drivers giving rides or making deliveries that DON'T work for them.


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## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

As a Gig driver it is my choice to accept the pay that is offered and if I believe the pay is too low then I have every right to decline it.

My issue with all these Gig apps is they proclaim it is your time and your way but in the small print ( actually not small at all ) the Gig companies then tell you that you must do this or that to be able to access their app and if you fail they can deactivate you at any given moment.

I feel AR shouldn’t be allowed in this equation because when you start doing that then we drivers are now being treated as employees while not having the benefit of being employees nor the protection.

How any of this will change is City, State and Federal Governments will have to force the gig companies to start treating their drivers better or be shutdown…


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

New2This said:


> Raising rates would cure cherrypicking.
> 
> If even shorties paid well then drivers would accept almost everything.


I want short trips 
As I only take surge trips 7.50 up I sure as heII don’t want to go 45 miles 1 hour 
for 30 bucks + 7.50 (90 and 2 hours round trip)
Unless the customer is paying 150


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

The whole premise of this question is wrong
It’s not us refusing to work below costs
Below minimum wage
For joke money that’s the problem
I’m forced to work the system to be paid fair.
If I did all asked id be netting 2 bucks an hour 🤣

These idiots can figure a way to pay Dara 70 miles over 3 years
They should be able to find a way to pay me fairly to come back empty from a trip so I don’t have to say “I’m sorry I have a 20 minute limit on rides”
I’m not discriminating on location 🤣


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Simple. Raise the drivers minimum ride pay so we don’t have to rely on streaks or quests.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

This trip we always get and always return empty 
2 hours round trip 
70 cost I get 35
47 expenses by irs numbers 
Who the f agrees to do this


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> How would you design it to keep drivers from abusing it?


Throw promos all day long and call me in the morning.

Until they make short trips worth the time, there is no fix and never will be.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

This trip we always get and always return empty
2 hours round trip
70 cost I get 35
47 expenses by irs numbers
Who the f agrees to do this
I
View attachment 667227
View attachment 667228



Screwber driver north said:


> Throw promos all day long and call me in the morning.
> 
> Until they make short trips worth the time, there is no fix and never will be.


Most I can do is 3 trips per hour
Means my trips have to cost 16 and give me 8
Can’t make a living on 4 dollar trips 🤣

And I just canceled on a guy doing the exact trip I mentioned above
I had a +12 surge and his cost was 80
I would gross 40+ 12 and it’s probably 3 hours now as it’s pouring 
Now it’s up and I would take it


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Fixes for cherry picking?

1. Make it so that short runs add up to decent money
2. Make it so long trips arn't shit
3. make it so wait time isn't shit.


If there's nothing your avoiding there's no reason to cherry pick.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Fixes for cherry picking?
> 
> 1. Make it so that short runs add up to decent money
> 2. Make it so long trips arn't shit
> 3. make it so wait time isn't shit.


That's exactly what they are doing 
in the upfront fare markets, well mine anyway.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Of those 4, 

The last 2 arn't bad, i'd do them for that price. The first too it's a shade too low for that distance.

You're not even getting $1.00 per mile. I'd want $1.50-2.00 at a minimum.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

,"The last 2 arn't bad, i'd do them for that price. The first too it's a shade too low for that distance."

I'd take the long trips in the morning and take the rest of the day tripping back to my short zone.

Where I'm at now I have to take everything as we get $1.40 a mile and .15 a minute, however it costs a lot to get here and unless you live here already it's not worth it coming here unless one already has a run down, then good luck getting anything going back. Too many other forms of cheaper transportation, buses and even car rentals are cheaper. Many try and fail here, even those like me doing this 18 hours a day with a paid off vehicle are barely making it.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> EXCLUSIVE Uber revamps driver pay algorithm in large U.S. pilot to attract drivers
> 
> 
> Uber Technologies Inc is testing a new driver earnings algorithm in 24 U.S. cities that allows drivers to see pay and destinations before accepting a trip and raises the incentives for drivers to take short rides in an effort to attract more drivers.
> ...


The problem is when a 2 hour ride only pays $100 or when 20 shorts only pays you $90, you arn't incentivized to take either.

In the taxi business... Long trips are extraordinarily rare. They just are. I'll have 100-200 <$6.00 rides for every $100+ ride.

GENERALLY, in the taxi my top 2-5 fares a day can make up 1/3 to 1/2 of my daily revenue. With another 15 faes making up the other half.

Last day I worked I had 4 $50+ fares and 20 fares in the $0- $20 range.
The top 4 fares were as much as my bottom 20.

So be it..


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?


Uber designs its processes in a way that's best for Uber, not what's best for customers and certainly not for drivers.


> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.


Getting drivers to accept undesirable trips has always been a problem for Uber. They try to tackle this by punishing drivers with time-outs for not accepting trips and by temporarily refraining from sending them requests. They also use the carrot approach by offering incentives to complete certain numbers of trips.


> So based upon your driving experience, how would you design the alogrithm and software to balance the needs of both drivers and customers?


Again, neither of these are concerns for Uber.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> problem is when a 2 hour ride only pays $100


Unfortunately there are plenty of drivers who will look at it and say, ''that's $50 per hour." And take it.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Of those 4,
> 
> The last 2 arn't bad, i'd do them for that price. The first too it's a shade too low for that distance.
> 
> You're not even getting $1.00 per mile. I'd want $1.50-2.00 at a minimum.


One needs $2 a mile.

$1 a mile up and back because 70% is costs and 30% is profit.

Uber is rideshare, meaning one was going that way anyway so take someone along for the ride and get commercial insurance and paid for it. Not paid to return, that's taxi rates.

Why Uber puts out these huge surge zones, to try to leverage the general public into giving rides on their way home from work










Now has two hour zones so not having to decline long trips as much.










Maybe in the future any trip that goes or is outside those zones will pay twice rideshare rates, much like taxi rates so it pays the costs of returning empty handed. This should open up rural areas to ridesharing, where people can Uber a few trips now and then per day from their house and not go broke doing so.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber is rideshare, meaning one was going that way anyway so take someone along for the ride and get commercial insurance and paid for it.


No, rideshare was the name made up by Uber to imply it was a friendly little carpool company. The legal name is Transportation Network Company or TNC. We are TNC drivers, not rideshare drivers.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In the taxi business... Long trips are extraordinarily rare.


Because too many dumb ass Uber drivers taking long trips for chump change, burning out their vehicles.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> That's exactly what they are doing
> in the upfront fare markets, well mine anyway.
> 
> View attachment 667240
> ...


Wow those long trips suck. 130 miles $116 not me


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Because too many dumb ass Uber drivers taking long trips for chump change, burning out their vehicles.


No i was around before uber/lyft. They were rare back then to. Less rare out of the airports and greyhound station, but still rare.


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## Be Right There (9 mo ago)

What fixes would cure cherry-picking?

At least 80% of local cab fares and 50 cents a minute waiting time, stops or traffic.


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## mrwhts (May 16, 2021)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Because too many dumb ass Uber drivers taking long trips for chump change, burning out their vehicles.


Actually long highway trips are better for car than city stop and go pothole city driving. But longer hours and miles needs to pay better for sure.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


Make everyone part time, minimum wage employees.

Accept every offer or be fired for cause.

Assigned the midnight til 3:59am shift. Log in or be fired for cause.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

1. Per minute rates that actually compensated drivers fairly for slow traffic or multiple stops
2. The ability for a Nevada driver to pick up riders in California with a destination filter that actually worked (and also didn't take away long pickup fees for backtracking) so as not to drive 200 miles one way and then dead head back empty. Alternatively, how about a return trip fee that is like 50%+ of the fare for any trip that goes out of state?
3. Stop with the BS "$6 for 1 qualified trip" within some tiny geographic area where even if you are inside, 85% of the trips will be on the outside of it.
4. Provide some kind of incentive to do a long trip when there is high surge bonuses on the shorties. or when you need to complete 50 trips to get the ride quest completed. Maybe make a long trip worth multiple short trips for the quest or change long trips to a percent surge instead of a flat surge.


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## Yotadriver (May 1, 2020)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


I know which trips we don’t want to take. They have algorithms and data history to project that, so why do they start with a higher base pay for those type of rides that we don’t want. And for people that are out in the boonies or in the suburbs where there’s no drivers there needs to be an add-on fee to go get these people. If it cost drivers more to get there it makes sense to pay them to get there.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> Raising rates would cure cherrypicking.
> 
> If even shorties paid well then drivers would accept almost everything.


Yes, Uber should raise payoff of short rides. Minimum $5 payable to driver. With $1 extra per extra passenger. It’s stupid to pick up 3 passengers for a short ride paying $5. More passengers, more wear and tear.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


Show their rating and percentage that they tip. I’ll take anyone anywhere if they tip.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

freddieman said:


> Yes, Uber should raise payoff of short rides. Minimum $5 payable to driver. With $1 extra per extra passenger. It’s stupid to pick up 3 passengers for a short ride paying $5. More passengers, more wear and tear.


Yea I think the minimum in Chicago is $3.50. This is especially the case for grocery store pickups. 3 minutes late to car, 3 minutes loading, 7 minute trip, 3 minute unload, 16 minutes total for $3.50 and no tip even though I help load and unload (more a speed thing over service).
That being said park next to grocery stores I’d you’re looking to hit a quest or have a boost promo.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


Uber now allows cherry picking at least in my market. With upfront pricing I see every detail of the ride and I’m free to accept or reject any ride without consequence. The exception is at the airport where if you reject 4 in a row, you go to the end of the queue
Im not sure what happens to the passengers who for one reason or another are rejected by many if not all drivers, but I have some ideas

Uber has also started to give drivers dropping off passengers at the airport immediate pings thereby bypassing he queue. I will accept a short ride then. Also there is the thing when a ride is offered to several drivers Perhaps these are the rides that have been rejected by other drivers

It seems to me that however its being done, its working I used to take almost every ride, Now I reject quite a few, , But I am not hearing from passengers that they had to wait a long time for a pickup


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

oldfart said:


> Uber now allows cherry picking at least in my market. With upfront pricing I see every detail of the ride and I’m free to accept or reject any ride without consequence. The exception is at the airport where if you reject 4 in a row, you go to the end of the queue
> Im not sure what happens to the passengers who for one reason or another are rejected by many if not all drivers, but I have some ideas
> 
> Uber has also started to give drivers dropping off passengers at the airport immediate pings thereby bypassing he queue. I will accept a short ride then. Also there is the thing when a ride is offered to several drivers Perhaps these are the rides that have been rejected by other drivers
> ...



What I don't like is being unable to set a directional while at the airport.

For instance I traveled sometimes 2 or 3 hours to drop off pax, then can't get a long run back to my area, knowing all too well many airport drivers are rejecting these long runs as they are only being paid one way. All I get are shorts or trips way in the opposite direction.

I'm traveling 2-3 hours , that's plenty of advance notice to Uber that I will take a run back towards home of substantial substance and set me up with one. Shit even the lousy one way pay is fine as it's better than nothing. 

I don't expect every driver to set a directional at the airport because of abuse, but I'm dropping off from a huge distance and need to go back anyway.


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## Gman67 (Aug 19, 2021)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


For the right price, I'll take any ride. When I decline a ride, maybe a screen should pop up that asks "how much would it take for you to accept this ride?". I can then enter an amount and that can be communicated to the buyer. If the buyer agrees, bam, ride accepted. I used to use Priceline in it's early days for booking hotel rooms. I got some great deals and many times I booked 3-star rooms for $30-35 per night. This worked great for awhile but then the hotels started realizing they weren't getting paid enough to even cover the cost of renting the rooms with housekeeping, free breakfast and amenities and all. So now if I go to rent a room and put in some insanely low offer, I immediately get a notice that there's little chance of any hotel accepting the offer but it you resubmit an offer for this amount(usually 2-3 times my original offer), there's a good chance for success. Anyway, I always thought Uber/Lyft should use this same approach. Put the decision in the rider's hands so they don't feel cheated or gouged. This "putting the decision in the rider's hands" would also be an excellent approach to stops. Make stops pay .50 cents per minute so riders can choose if they want to take their time or hurry, because, hey, it's their money. More money fixes everything.


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## UberIsAllFubared (Feb 24, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


CHERRY PICKING? Are you fking serious? Its called making the best business decision for your business, which every single independent contractor has every right to do. By using the phrase cherry picking you make it seem like drivers are doing something shady which is a crock of sht. Its NOT a drivers responsibility to make a platform reliable, its not a drivers responsibility to subsidize cheap unprofitable rides. How about have taxi rates, which in LA are $2.85 a ride instead of .61 a ride? How about giving drivers a driver multiplier to set the rates they are willing to drive for. Uber/lyft should either do a flag drop on every single ride$10 plus miles and distance, OR give the driver two multipliers they can set, one multiplier for short rides under a certain distance (yeah I would be setting this to 5x which would be equivalent to a $10 flag drop) and another multiplier for rides over a certain distance (say 5 miles), which I would be setting anywhere from 1.8x to 3.5x personally. I know what people are willing to pay for rides of all distances, and in many cases, they just want picked the fk up... right now, they aren't getting picked up.


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## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> The question is, if you were Uber and in charge of creating an alogrithm and software drivers would use, how would you design it in a way that's best for customers and drivers?
> 
> Obviously cherry picking is a problem because it passes a reality small trip to further away drivers who are even less likely to take it. However some drivers are near their work end and just set a directional and wait for something going toward home of substance, ignoring small trips as they are tired.
> 
> ...


In a perfect world, the drivers would get compensated enough by Uber and wouldn't need the tips at all. That means pickup fees, dropoff fees, drivetime fees, idle time fees, and mileage fees. Drivers can accept cash tips, but all non-cash tips go to Uber. Let them worry about it.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

Be Right There said:


> What fixes would cure cherry-picking?
> 
> At least 80% of local cab fares and 50 cents a minute waiting time, stops or traffic.


I agree that waiting time needs to be more. Also stop off's should pay more and the waiting time at Stop Off's should be taken into account, which it does not currently. Waiting time should be 50 cents per minute to the driver. If it were, there would be a whole lot more hustling going on by the customers. It seems like wait time comes in groups. Some days I'll have almost zero, other days I end up waiting an hour out of the day.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

Judge and Jury said:


> Make everyone part time, minimum wage employees.
> 
> Accept every offer or be fired for cause.
> 
> Assigned the midnight til 3:59am shift. Log in or be fired for cause.


No one would be working then


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

UberPissed said:


> Yea I think the minimum in Chicago is $3.50. This is especially the case for grocery store pickups. 3 minutes late to car, 3 minutes loading, 7 minute trip, 3 minute unload, 16 minutes total for $3.50 and no tip even though I help load and unload (more a speed thing over service).
> That being said park next to grocery stores I’d you’re looking to hit a quest or have a boost promo.


I've never seen a trip for under $5


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## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

The whole rideshare model is flawed. Uber started this thing to undercut taxi companies, but you can't do that without cheating the driver. There's no way for you guys to profit without those fees. It's a struggle for us delivery drivers, but it's hopeless for rideshare drivers.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

Uber JC said:


> I've never seen a trip for under $5


I get 3-5 rides all the time. High 3s


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