# Tips concern



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Every now and then, I go stretches where I don’t get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn’t know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


Of course it's not legal. Of course there's no way to prove it either and these companies know that. It would literally have to be someone you know or keep in contact with afterwards to be able to compare what they are charged and what you were paid. Even with that, they are going to say it was a one-time isolated incident


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> Of course it's not legal. Of course there's no way to prove it either and these companies know that. It would literally have to be someone you know or keep in contact with afterwards to be able to compare what they are charged and what you were paid. Even with that, they are going to say it was a one-time isolated incident


I know for a fact they kept over 60% of my tip from that call and I can prove it. The issue here is I don't need a $13 adjustment, but some sort of transparency. Aren't we supposed to be partners after all?


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Bad uber pro said:


> I know for a fact they kept over 60% of my tip from that call and I can prove it. The issue here is I don't need a $13 adjustment, but some sort of transparency. Aren't we supposed to be partners after all?


I would say that you cannot prove it.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Tips are like the weather. When it rains, it pours...and droughts can last for weeks.

Don't worry. Just keep being yourself, and eventually a payday will come.

(As for the Uber stealing your tips issue...I've never seen that happen to me. My tips show up all the time. Unfortunately, there are some days where you get nothing but no-tip pax in your car. Like I said, when it rains...it pours.)


----------



## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


I really need to ask the drivers that have taken me to work if they receive the correct amount of the tip as a percentage. Are they receiving the tip percentage based on the actual trip I paid for or are they getting paid the percentage based on how much they are paid after Uber's cut? If I find out the latter, I will be tipping at an even dollar amount.


----------



## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

rkozy said:


> Tips are like the weather. When it rains, it pours...and droughts can last for weeks.
> 
> Don't worry. Just keep being yourself, and eventually a payday will come.
> 
> (As for the Uber stealing your tips issue...I've never seen that happen to me. My tips show up all the time. Unfortunately, there are some days where you get nothing but no-tip pax in your car. Like I said, when it rains...it pours.)


You either didn't read or you didn't understand the OP's original post.

To the OP - can we see a screenshot of the fare details? I'm not doubting you, and I truly believe Uber is scum. But tip stealing is a criminal offense, and riders are charged separately for tips so it would be very easily detectable. Wondering if there is a rider promo or credit or something similar affecting the % amount?


----------



## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


They are skimming tips. Period. I too have the same driver rating and count on tips. On Friday I made tips on all but one of my trips. Then yesterday I drove 17 trips and not a single tip. I woke today thinking they would be in there but there were none. All it takes is one bad ride for me to quit driving for the day so to get to 17 is a lot and they were all actually pretty good rides. No tips? Really? BS. Think about it this way, if there are a million rides given in a day (not sure how many on a global scale are given per 24 hours on average so guessing), then by taking just 1 dollar from each ride they were able to steal 1 million. That is grand theft in the US but the programmers in/from the third world may not see it that way nor care nor have an understanding that it is wrong. The lack of a moral or ethical compass or respect of laws in the US by Uber and Lyft is simply astounding.


----------



## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

nouberipo said:


> They are skimming tips. Period. I too have the same driver rating and count on tips. On Friday I made tips on all but one of my trips. Then yesterday I drove 17 trips and not a single tip. I woke today thinking they would be in there but there were none. All it takes is one bad ride for me to quit driving for the day so to get to 17 is a lot and they were all actually pretty good rides. No tips? Really? BS. Think about it this way, if there are a million rides given in a day (not sure how many on a global scale are given per 24 hours on average so guessing), then by taking just 1 dollar from each ride they were able to steal 1 million. That is grand theft in the US but the programmers in/from the third world may not see it that way nor care nor have an understanding that it is wrong. The lack of a moral or ethical compass or respect of laws in the US by Uber and Lyft is simply astounding.


When tipping first started, I was letting the driver know I tipped by showing them this. That did 2 things, it let the driver know that I did tip and if for some weird reason, the tip did not show up, they could fight it or try to.

I may start getting back into the practice of showing the drivers I am tipping. I am not very appreciative to the idea that drivers could be getting conned out of their tips.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

CTK said:


> You either didn't read or you didn't understand the OP's original post.
> 
> To the OP - can we see a screenshot of the fare details? I'm not doubting you, and I truly believe Uber is scum. But tip stealing is a criminal offense, and riders are charged separately for tips so it would be very easily detectable. Wondering if there is a rider promo or credit or something similar affecting the % amount?


Now if I didn't watch the passenger select the 25% option which I would bet my life on it that would be one thing. Even if I was wrong, there isn't an option that's close to the $11.76 unless u enter it manually and I am damn sure he didn't punch in any numbers.


----------



## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Bad uber pro said:


> Now if I didn't watch the passenger select the 25% option which I would bet my life on it that would be one thing. Even if I was wrong, there isn't an option that's close to the $11.76 unless u enter it manually and I am damn sure he didn't punch in any numbers.


This looks like, if you are accurate on this, that uber gave you the tip off the amount your were paid. That clears it for me. I will place a set dollar amount in there for now on.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Steven Ambrose said:


> This looks like, if you are accurate on this, that uber gave you the tip off the amount your were paid. That clears it for me. I will place a set dollar amount in there for now on.


I got paid $77.50 without the toll . 25% of that would be $19.37


----------



## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Bad uber pro said:


> I got paid $77.50 without the toll . 25% of that would be $19.37


Precisely, Uber cheated you out of a portion of your tip on the base amount they paid you, as opposed to the amount the rider paid Uber. This is tip theft.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

nouberipo said:


> They are skimming tips. Period. I too have the same driver rating and count on tips. On Friday I made tips on all but one of my trips. Then yesterday I drove 17 trips and not a single tip. I woke today thinking they would be in there but there were none. All it takes is one bad ride for me to quit driving for the day so to get to 17 is a lot and they were all actually pretty good rides. No tips? Really? BS. Think about it this way, if there are a million rides given in a day (not sure how many on a global scale are given per 24 hours on average so guessing), then by taking just 1 dollar from each ride they were able to steal 1 million. That is grand theft in the US but the programmers in/from the third world may not see it that way nor care nor have an understanding that it is wrong. The lack of a moral or ethical compass or respect of laws in the US by Uber and Lyft is simply astounding.


See ... I raised these concerns a long time ago, knowing some customers are regulars and they always tip. Then I get a stretch of 10 trips and some of them who I picked before and I know they left a nice tip. Is it possible they forgot this time? Maybe ... But what about the other 9? Something doesn't add up.


----------



## WNYuber (Oct 5, 2019)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


Years ago my sister was a waitress and wondered why she stopped getting tips during a short period. People always tipped her in the past then all of a sudden the tips stopped for 3 straight days. She began to question her own service & communication skills. Then the restaurant reviewed the video footage and the busboy was stealing her tips.
Uber = our busboy


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

CTK said:


> You either didn't read or you didn't understand the OP's original post.


I don't understand the intent of many posts offered on UP.net

Most of them tend to revolve around some variant of the theme, "I'm a victim because I decided to be an Uber driver."

Uber/Lyft is the epitome of a work-at-your-pleasure gig. If the work doesn't suit your standards, you won't be jailed for deleting the driver app from your phone. If I thought Uber was stealing my tips -- and had specific proof that they were -- I'd retain a quality lawyer who is proficient at such litigation.

The last thing I'd be doing is telling a bunch of chronically uptight people on the Internet why my life sucks because of Uber.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

The rider tipped you 15% on the non-service fee part of the ride. Why should the pax tip you on an Uber service fee? That wasn't your service. Its like not tipping on the tax portion of a restaurant bill. I would never tip on the tax. Looks very normal to me.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

lyft_rat said:


> The rider tipped you 15% on the non-service fee part of the ride. Why should the pax tip you on an Uber service fee? That wasn't your service. Its like not tipping on the tax portion of a restaurant bill. I would never tip on the tax. Looks very normal to me.


Again... I Bet my life I watched the rider select the 25% option. And let's go with your analogy, was it made clear anywhere that the percentage selected only applies to my portion? (which the passenger is not aware of)
Or, is it implied that the passenger is tipping 15% of the total fare?
Your restaurant tip example doesn't apply here and yes .... u look at the total amount when u tip and not pre tax :smiles:


----------



## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

I know for a fact that Uber steals tips. I've watched pax enter in a nice tip, hit all the correct buttons, and then I never even see that tip.

I also know for a fact that Lyft will charge pax for cleanup fees and then refuse to pay those fees to the driver. This has happened to me more than once. I suspect they do the same thing with cancellation fees sometimes, as they sometimes disappear for no apparent reason, without explation, and then I have to do battle with some third world bottom runger.

This is why I have Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, etc. and have my information posted on my tip sign so that pax know how to avoid the Uber/Lyft grift. When I get a tip via Venmo or Zelle, during the trip, I get a text message so I know the pax tipped me, same as if they tipped cash. Plus, these alternative methods keep Uber/Lyft in the dark so they can't claim those tips as party of driver pay, and most importantly, they can't steal them from me.


----------



## MUGATS (Aug 14, 2016)

Wouldn’t it be easy to prove they were stealing tips. Just have your spouse/friend/another driver sign up and try to request you. 

Then have them tip whatever and see if you get it? 

I mean I’m sure you could do this multiple times and see if they skim.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Trying to understand the complaint here. When a pax does a percent tip (none of mine have ever done that) if there is a toll the toll isn't part of the tip (makes sense) or that Uber is keeping tips? Didn't one of the food delivery outfits do this and got into a trouble.
I know when I tip for grubhub or like and use the percent function I do NOT tip n del and service fees.
If some feel Uber is KEEPING tips, that should cause a riot of epic proportions, if true.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

rkozy said:


> I don't understand the intent of many posts offered on UP.net
> 
> Most of them tend to revolve around some variant of the theme, "I'm a victim because I decided to be an Uber driver."
> 
> ...


 So no members are able to voice their concern or call these companies out on their shenanigans because you your interpretation is we're playing victim? So your opinion cancels out our voice?? isn't that the whole point of this forum? Us choosing to work this "work for pleasure gig" doesn't give them the right to operate illegally.

As far as retaining a lawyer, you know damn well there are very very few drivers who are not bound by arbitration. I'm assuming you opted out? You know, since you would get and attorney. . . 


CTK said:


> You either didn't read or you didn't understand the OP's original post.
> 
> To the OP - can we see a screenshot of the fare details? I'm not doubting you, and I truly believe Uber is scum. But tip stealing a criminal offense, users are charged separately for tips so it would be very easily detectable. Wondering if there is a rider promo or credit or something similar affecting the % amount?


 There is a thread somewhere in this forum about ubereats and tips. Drivers who suspected their tips we're being taken did a little experiment if you will and discovered tips being paid out to the driver was dependent on whether the user used a debit card or a credit card. Users tipped using both types of payment. Yet only one specific type of transaction paid out the tips to the driver and the other type of transaction did not. Now in this instance , they discovered Uber did not keep the money. It dropped off the charge and the user would only be charged for the actual order. I'm wondering if perhaps this is what's happening here, on the actual car service side?


----------



## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

look this is very simple. "i caught you red handed uber" is about as effective as jerking off a carrot. you think they care? their whole MO is flaunt and manipulate laws and payouts. just be glad when you have moved on to something more legitimate,until then ....dont waste your time mentally masterbating over things which you have no control over.


----------



## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Uber IS stealing our tips. Period. 
Yesterday I completed a 20.00 quest and ever since then NEVER had a tip register on the following 12 trips today. Since I usually get tipped about half of my trips this was very worrisome but then my 9th ride I helped the woman put in a tip and guess what........IT DIDN"T SHOW UP. 
So I called the Manila people who sit there and lie to us and pointed out that since I got the 20.00 quest NO tips have registered. Of course I was lied to and I made him go through every ride since the quest. He said no tips are registered.
Fast forward four hours later and the tip for trip 9 came through!! The only reason it came through was because I called them on it. What happened to the other tips? They are basically giving you a quest amount but then will take your tips to cover the quest amount!! This is stealing, period. All drivers need to pay attention to when they complete a quest and get an amount and then watch their trips thereafter to see if you get tips. THEN call the third world to report that you aren't getting your tips. What has this company come to when they actually steal the tips from the drivers? Uber has no ethical or moral compass but this to me has once again lowered the bar. I am sure that regulators and lawmakers could care less and the third world programmers likely see nothing wrong with doing this. 
Again, drivers tips are being stolen by Uber to pay for the quest payouts. Take away the surge pay (surges are still there) and take away the tips (which are being made but kept by Uber) and you just have to ask what else they can get away with (they can get away with anything it seems but what I am wondering is what other ways they will figure out to rob drivers)



5☆OG said:


> look this is very simple. "i caught you red handed uber" is about as effective as jerking off a carrot. you think they care? their whole MO is flaunt and manipulate laws and payouts. just be glad when you have moved on to something more legitimate,until then ....dont waste your time mentally masterbating over things which you have no control over.


and don't assume because the company is based in the US that there are any laws or regulations that Uber is beholden to. Run by a third world CEO, programmed by programmers in the third world, and driver "support" in the third world means they can be lawless as they want just as in the third world.


----------



## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

nouberipo said:


> Uber IS stealing our tips. Period.
> Yesterday I completed a 20.00 quest and ever since then NEVER had a tip register on the following 12 trips today. Since I usually get tipped about half of my trips this was very worrisome but then my 9th ride I helped the woman put in a tip and guess what........IT DIDN"T SHOW UP.
> So I called the Manila people who sit there and lie to us and pointed out that since I got the 20.00 quest NO tips have registered. Of course I was lied to and I made him go through every ride since the quest. He said no tips are registered.
> Fast forward four hours later and the tip for trip 9 came through!! The only reason it came through was because I called them on it. What happened to the other tips? They are basically giving you a quest amount but then will take your tips to cover the quest amount!! This is stealing, period. All drivers need to pay attention to when they complete a quest and get an amount and then watch their trips thereafter to see if you get tips. THEN call the third world to report that you aren't getting your tips. What has this company come to when they actually steal the tips from the drivers? Uber has no ethical or moral compass but this to me has once again lowered the bar. I am sure that regulators and lawmakers could care less and the third world programmers likely see nothing wrong with doing this.
> ...


That wasnt my point but venting is good....lol


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

SHalester said:


> Trying to understand the complaint here. When a pax does a percent tip (none of mine have ever done that) if there is a toll the toll isn't part of the tip (makes sense) or that Uber is keeping tips? Didn't one of the food delivery outfits do this and got into a trouble.
> I know when I tip for grubhub or like and use the percent function I do NOT tip n del and service fees.
> If some feel Uber is KEEPING tips, that should cause a riot of epic proportions, if true.


When the options to tip is given to the customer on a larger fare, it's shown as a percentage of the fare ex: 15%, 20% or 25%. When they select an option, I am certain it's based on the total fare (or at least that's what the passenger assumes) 
Uber then either keeps it, or only gives u a percentage of that ( this is not speculation but a fact that I knew about but couldn't prove till this trip). I don't want Uber to turn around and call it an independent incident so I am trying to find other drivers who has proof of something shady like this so at least we can let people know. Read the updates to my post.


----------



## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Steven Ambrose said:


> I really need to ask the drivers that have taken me to work if they receive the correct amount of the tip as a percentage. Are they receiving the tip percentage based on the actual trip I paid for or are they getting paid the percentage based on how much they are paid after Uber's cut? If I find out the latter, I will be . tipping at an even dollar amount.


Yes...thank you. The only way to make this more transparent is if there is more communication between riders and drivers in terms of tips/payments. As passengers assume their tip is going to the driver (and isn't much of the time), it is basically stealing. As for drivers, many of us will give drivers ratings below five if not tipped. As I now can confidently state that my tips have been stolen by Uber I will not rate any passenger a five unless it is tipped in cash. Their decision to steal also impacts the drivers in terms of being upset. They have taken away surge pay and keep it all for themselves and now take the tips. How in Gods name can this be happening in what is supposedly the first world that once was known for ethics, moral, laws, and civility? This lawlessness of Uber and Lyft is beyond compare and as other companies see they can get away with it what is going to stop them from following suit? Pretty soon you will have the true definition of the third world by just using the United States as an example.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Couldn’t find a way to update original post but I found a way to contact the customer since they left something in my car and they confirmed 2 pending transactions on their card, first for $104.01 and sec for $26.00


----------



## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Cary Grant said:


> I know for a fact that Uber steals tips. I've watched pax enter in a nice tip, hit all the correct buttons, and then I never even see that tip.
> 
> I also know for a fact that Lyft will charge pax for cleanup fees and then refuse to pay those fees to the driver. This has happened to me more than once. I suspect they do the same thing with cancellation fees sometimes, as they sometimes disappear for no apparent reason, without explation, and then I have to do battle with some third world bottom runger.
> 
> This is why I have Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, etc. and have my information posted on my tip sign so that pax know how to avoid the Uber/Lyft grift. When I get a tip via Venmo or Zelle, during the trip, I get a text message so I know the pax tipped me, same as if they tipped cash. Plus, these alternative methods keep Uber/Lyft in the dark so they can't claim those tips as party of driver pay, and most importantly, they can't steal them from me.


Good post and good way to get Uber from stop stealing drivers' tips. In what universe are we living that allows a company to pay below minimum wage AND steal the tips earned by the drivers? Today I noted in another post that following a quest of 20.00 earned yesterday I received zero tips on any of my 12 following rides. The ironic thing was that ride 9 needed help with the app so I showed her how to tip and that tip never showed up. I had to call Manila and argue with the Filipino who of course lied to me. Then hours later that tip that I called them on surfaced like magic......how about the other trips? Basically what Uber is doing is stopping surge pay, will give out quests, will pay the quests and then cover that amount through subsequent tips. This is beyond seedy and likely brings them millions of dollars if they are doing this to all drivers. Stealing milllions of dollars should be punishable in the United States but since Uber and Lyft are lawless and view laws as not pertaining to them they obviously see no problem with it. Uber and Lyft follow the Trump mindset....they get away with one thing and they keep pushing the envelope. They keep getting worse and worse and there is no bottom and there is nothing we can do about it (and they know that)


----------



## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

I honestly dont believe they are keeping tips. But then again i wouldent be shocked if it were proven that they do. I really think customers are so cheap that they are making drivers paranoid. In any event its part of an overall deep seeded distrust that uber has created between drivers and corporate. And why not , i can site many abuses by this company,all designed to keep us on edge ,under paid and suspicious. It is actually having a detrimental effect between the drivers and the passangers. It does not promote harmony it promotes animosity.


----------



## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

I just finished making a sign stating that Uber keeps all tips that are entered into the app thus if they want to tip please do it in cash or square is available. I am thinking of making a second sign stating that surge pricing that is being charged to customers is no longer passed on to the drivers thus please know that you, the passenger, are being ripped off by Uber with the surge fare thus please don't hold back on the tips thinking that drivers are actually getting paid remotely what you are paying. An example I have printed out and may hang is when Uber took 81% of the fare (not normal but it happened) thus it is a good example for passengers to see the reality of this company and for them to know by taking Uber they are contributing to one of the most unethical, immoral, and lawless companies operating in the United States (since many countries abroad- specifically the third world- are lawless, the dissonance doesn't pertain to them). Time to start educating passengers about the facts and not the false optics Uber has become known for.


----------



## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

nouberipo said:


> I just finished making a sign stating that Uber keeps all tips that are entered into the app thus if they want to tip please do it in cash or square is available. I am thinking of making a second sign stating that surge pricing that is being charged to customers is no longer passed on to the drivers thus please know that you, the passenger, are being ripped off by Uber with the surge fare thus please don't hold back on the tips thinking that drivers are actually getting paid remotely what you are paying. An example I have printed out and may hang is when Uber took 81% of the fare (not normal but it happened) thus it is a good example for passengers to see the reality of this company and for them to know by taking Uber they are contributing to one of the most unethical, immoral, and lawless companies operating in the United States (since many countries abroad- specifically the third world- are lawless, the dissonance doesn't pertain to them). Time to start educating passengers about the facts and not the false optics Uber has become known for.


Careful that could backfire in your face. Customers do not want to get in the middle of it,frankly they dont care. If you want to bring it up i would start a test conversation to see how they react then explain it to them...this is the way i handle it....anyways i get it...its not right....i am 98% convinced they are definetly hedging payments on surges or whats left of what they call surges. Heres another cute way they are charging customers more and not paying us. Check the booking fees they change drastically and guess what we get none of that so they compensate the lower pay by increasing a portion of the bill that drivers are excluded from...cute huh?


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> Couldn't find a way to update original post but I found a way to contact the customer since they left something in my car and they confirmed 2 pending transactions on their card, first for $104.01 and sec for $26.00


First, please do ignore anyone posts that suggest victimage on your part for bringing this up. This is a perfectly valid question to raise. If indeed it could be proved Uber is skimming tip money they should be held accountable. A class action lawsuit might be warranted if this were the case.

As I've been reading through this thread, that is what I was going to post; use a lost item ploy to contact customer. Great that you made contact w/o need of subterfuge. The question now is, what is your next move? $26 is the correct amount a 25% tip would be on that fare. If you have a cooperative customer then that is solid gold for taking this to the next level.

But here is a caution. I was going to make this point to nouberipo. I've noticed that tips don't always register on the app right away. I've gone for long periods during the day seemingly getting zero tips. Then at some point they are credited to earlier rides. This may simply be a delayed processing event. Notice that your tip was a separate transaction on the customers CC. Just something to be aware of. The fact that you were credited with a tip of a reduced amount means your case is likely not Uber processing the 2nd transaction late. Nonetheless I would check that transaction a few days later to see if it was adjusted.

So what is your next step?


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> First, please do ignore anyone posts that suggest victimage on your part for bringing this up. This is a perfectly valid question to raise. If indeed it could be proved Uber is skimming tip money they should be held accountable. A class action lawsuit might be warranted if this were the case.
> 
> As I've been reading through this thread, that is what I was going to post; use a lost item ploy to contact customer. Great that you made contact w/o need of subterfuge. The question now is, what is your next move? $26 is the correct amount a 25% tip would be on that fare. If you have a cooperative customer then that is solid gold for taking this to the next level.
> 
> ...


I asked the customer if there is a way to send me a screen shot of the transaction when it finishes processing. Since he's new to Uber he's a little suspicious and I didn't wanna blatantly tell him what I was thinking. Luckily we had lots of conversation back and forth during the trip which helped build that report. The tip showed up 25 min after the trip ended, I was worried since I didn't see it a few minutes later so I kept checking. 
To be honest with u,I really don't know now... some people are responding by " if u don't like it, why do u keep doing it?" Which is not why I am putting my neck out here. Trust me, I understand that sometimes tips won't show Up for a day or 2 or a week later. And that's usually because the customer just opened up the app and ordered another ride and remembered to tip. 
I have another example of a text between me and another customer who never got the tipping screen after the ride ended. He logged in through his computer later and went back to his trip history to add tips. I will be more than happy to post the text messages exchange if anyone was curious.
The bottom line is, something is going on with the system which costing us lots of money and something must be done to fix it.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

lyft_rat said:


> The rider tipped you 15% on the non-service fee part of the ride. Why should the pax tip you on an Uber service fee? That wasn't your service. Its like not tipping on the tax portion of a restaurant bill. I would never tip on the tax. Looks very normal to me.


Completely disagree with your ridiculous analogy. That would actually be far more like asking the waiter what the breakdown on the bill was for food vs service. ABSURD! Tipping is for the WHOLE meal, all inclusive, except for tax (and most normal people don't subtract even the tax). The tip on a ride is presumed to be on the entire ride in the same way. Pax don't have ANY idea what the breakdown is until they look at the receipt breakdown, and almost none look at the receipt breakdown, they just see the total. They're not thinking about the Uber vs driver breakdown. Nearly all pax are surprised or even shocked when I tell them how much of their fare is kept by the transportation company (yep, that's what they really are!) So clearly, most riders presume the tip to be on the entire ride.

Furthermore, why would Uber not want the tip to be as much as possible to keep their drivers happy? These bastards care so little for us they even begrudge a tipping calculation that benefits us! And your comment just belies the probability that you are an Uber shill, since it's so defensive of company policy! Do you only tip the waiter on the service, and not the food? He didn't pay for the food, and only supplied the service. Who even thinks about that breakdown? NOBODY, except maybe an Uber shill defending the company's anti-driver policy.



Bad uber pro said:


> Again... I Bet my life I watched the rider select the 25% option. And let's go with your analogy, was it made clear anywhere that the percentage selected only applies to my portion? (which the passenger is not aware of)
> Or, is it implied that the passenger is tipping 15% of the total fare?
> Your restaurant tip example doesn't apply here and yes .... u look at the total amount when u tip and not pre tax :smiles:


No, sorry but clearly you saw incorrectly. It's no coincidence that it happens to be exactly 15% of your portion of the fare. The math doesn't work out as 15% of the total fare in any case. And it's also not 25% of the total fare. So it's clear that tipping is not on the entire ride, even though it should be. These co's are evil, no doubt, but they're not about to violate their own TOS agreement, or the consequences would be devastating in any litigation. Although, I have noticed that % tips often do not work out to be close to any of the tip % options on the app. Probably a calculation error in their crappy programming...



nouberipo said:


> I just finished making a sign stating that Uber keeps all tips that are entered into the app thus if they want to tip please do it in cash or square is available. I am thinking of making a second sign stating that surge pricing that is being charged to customers is no longer passed on to the drivers thus please know that you, the passenger, are being ripped off by Uber with the surge fare thus please don't hold back on the tips thinking that drivers are actually getting paid remotely what you are paying. An example I have printed out and may hang is when Uber took 81% of the fare (not normal but it happened) thus it is a good example for passengers to see the reality of this company and for them to know by taking Uber they are contributing to one of the most unethical, immoral, and lawless companies operating in the United States (since many countries abroad- specifically the third world- are lawless, the dissonance doesn't pertain to them). Time to start educating passengers about the facts and not the false optics Uber has become known for.


A better sign might be to simply advise pax to wait for surge pricing to go down before ordering a ride and then say "cash tips appreciated". That will get them more easily on your side and elicit better tips. And Uber is not likely keeping our tips, so I would be wary of making a false derogatory claim toward the company. I once picked up the mother of the CEO of Lyft, so spies can be anywhere!


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> Couldn't find a way to update original post but I found a way to contact the customer since they left something in my car and they confirmed 2 pending transactions on their card, first for $104.01 and sec for $26.00


Ok, are you BSing us? so your tip just happens to be exactly 15% of your portion of the fare, and THEIR charge was exactly 25% of the TOTAL fare? And if you were really in contact with the pax after the ride, why not simply ask if they hit the 15% or the 25% button? Something ain't right here... was this all done through the app? Since they have no other way of contacting you directly.... If this is legit, Uber may have charged the tip and the returned item fee (of $15) together, and that should be $26.76. Maybe they misread or reported it to you rounded down.



Bad uber pro said:


> I asked the customer if there is a way to send me a screen shot of the transaction when it finishes processing. Since he's new to Uber he's a little suspicious and I didn't wanna blatantly tell him what I was thinking. Luckily we had lots of conversation back and forth during the trip which helped build that report. The tip showed up 25 min after the trip ended, I was worried since I didn't see it a few minutes later so I kept checking.
> To be honest with u,I really don't know now... some people are responding by " if u don't like it, why do u keep doing it?" Which is not why I am putting my neck out here. Trust me, I understand that sometimes tips won't show Up for a day or 2 or a week later. And that's usually because the customer just opened up the app and ordered another ride and remembered to tip.
> I have another example of a text between me and another customer who never got the tipping screen after the ride ended. He logged in through his computer later and went back to his trip history to add tips. I will be more than happy to post the text messages exchange if anyone was curious.
> The bottom line is, something is going on with the system which costing us lots of money and something must be done to fix it.


And how are you getting TEXTS from the pax after the ride is over? Not possible, unless you gave them your phone number, and why would you do that? Why would a pax text you that they didn't get the tipping screen anyway? I'm calling BS on this whole thing unless you can justify these irregularities...


----------



## Jack Marrero (Oct 24, 2015)

I think most Uber driverd at some point, had become suspicious of Uber stealing their tips.
Not much we can do, until the day they'll get sued for this and then the shit will hit the fan.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Ok, now I believe you are just BSing us... so your tip just happens to be exactly 15% of your portion of the fare, and THEIR charge was exactly 25% of the TOTAL fare? Something ain't right here... was this all done through the app? Since they have no other way of contacting you directly....


Well, I don't know what to tell you. I could direct message u and let u know how I know the 15% is out of the question, especially breaking it down that way.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Jenga said:


> And how are you getting TEXTS from the pax after the ride is over? Not possible, unless you gave them your phone number, and why would you do that?


Holy cow are you always so angry? Or is Uber making sure they get their money's worth from your shill training? Clearly you missed this post of his . . . 


Bad uber pro said:


> Couldn't find a way to update original post but I found a way to contact the customer since they left something in my car and they confirmed 2 pending transactions on their card, first for $104.01 and sec for $26.00


----------



## L DaVinci (Oct 26, 2019)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


We're SOL, Uber doesn't release data.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> Holy cow are you always so angry? Or is Uber making sure they get their money's worth from your shill training? Clearly you missed this post of his . . .


Not angry - just jaded, and suspicious when things don't add up. And yes, I initially missed that post, and when I saw it do not believe it. Read my later response to it. Either bad Uber pro is not very savvy or is embellishing a true story with BS. He/she just happened to later (after first post) find an item that needed return? (1 in a thousand) And then, after telling the pax of concern about accurate tip receipt, didn't bother to ask what % was tipped? (Inept) Yet managed to get the financial details from the pax? (Possible, but unlikely anyone is that inept at getting to the truth, especially when so concerned to make MANY posts to this thread). And what - in any post of mine in this thread - would possibly lead you to believe I was shilling for Uber? Are you high? Can you not see I despise them?



Bad uber pro said:


> Well, I don't know what to tell you. I could direct message u and let u know how I know the 15% is out of the question, especially breaking it down that way.


Why DM, just post your data and text msg screen shots here for all to see!

Ok, not trying to be nasty here, just wanna get at the truth. I've checked several recent odd-amount tips, and they seem to be based NOT on the entire ride, and ONLY on the driver share of the fare. But here's the interesting part: none of my tips amount to EXACTLY 15% or 25%, they always come out a bit wrong. So there seems to be some merit in the idea that Uber is at least mis-calculating the % based tips. So @Bad uber pro, it certainly appears that your rider tipped 15% of your share of the ride. Do the math and it's 15% of your share including the toll. And the $26 charge would approximately equal your $15 returned item fee plus your 15% tip.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Not angry - just jaded, and suspicious when things don't add up. And yes, I initially missed that post, and when I saw it do not believe it. Read my later response to it. Either bad Uber pro is not very savvy or is embellishing a true story with BS. He/she just happened to later (after first post) find an item that needed return? (1 in a thousand) And then, after telling the pax of concern about accurate tip receipt, didn't bother to ask what % was tipped? (Inept) Yet managed to get the financial details from the pax? (Possible, but unlikely anyone is that inept at getting to the truth, especially when so concerned to make MANY posts to this thread). And what - in any post of mine in this thread - would possibly lead you to believe I was shilling for Uber? Are you high? Can you not see I despise them?
> 
> 
> Why DM, just post your data and text msg screen shots here for all to see!


What is not adding up exactly? You act like he's the only one that's ever questioned whether Uber was doing this. If you search the Forum, there are plenty of others who have questioned the same thing.

As for him messaging you, clearly there's probably something in his proof that you've demanded , that he doesn't want out in public forum. Most likely some identifying information. Hello! Here the guy is actually trying to accommodate your demand for some odd reason and you're still busting his balls! Come on you should know how this works


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Jenga said:


> Completely disagree with your ridiculous analogy.


You did not undersand what I said. I said I do not tip on tax in a restaurant and as a rider I would not tip on Uber's share which I can guestimate and if in doubt round down (sorry). Riders are smarter than you you give then credit for. After all, they are good at taking advantage oif you, no?


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Does the math work out in any scenario? Let's test this:

$104.01 - Rider pays for ride. No tip yet.
$ 25.84 - Uber service fee
======
$ 78.17 - Driver pay

Rider is charged $26 in a separate transaction.
Driver receives a tip of $11.76. What accounts for the difference?

1) If rider chose 25% tip, that is exactly $26.0025 of entire fare, or $26 rounded. Fits exactly with what rider was charged.
2) If Uber only charged rider 25% of driver portion of pay that equals $19.54. Way off.
3) If Uber only charged rider 15% of driver portion of pay (pax accidentally hit 15% button) that is $11.72 (a 4¢ difference of actual driver tip).
4) If Uber split the 25% tip proportionally based on its commission (Uber pockets part of the tip) and the remainder it paid the driver, the driver would still receive $19.54.

Add a $15 lost item fee to $19.54 scenario = $34.43. Way off.
Add a $15 lost item fee to $11.72 scenario = $26.72 (A 72¢ difference of what pax paid on 2nd xaction)

*If these calculations are correct then the only scenario that exactly fits is if Uber charged the pax 25% of the entire ride fee based upon the pax pressing the 25% button on the app. Jenga raised a good point, but no lost item fee fits in here. Therefore the question of why driver was paid only $11.76 as a tip credit remains a question.*

----------------------------

@Bad uber pro: Suggestion. Contact Uber about the ride. Don't mention anything at all about the tip. Instead inquire as to if/when you will receive the lost item fee. Their response will provide another piece to this jigsaw puzzle.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Is it possible the Rider went in and adjusted the tip from 25% down to 15% due to The returned item fee? Basically capping you out at $25? maybe they had a predetermined amount ($25)
to give you and due to the returned item fee they went and lowered your tip?,


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Ok, are you BSing us? so your tip just happens to be exactly 15% of your portion of the fare, and THEIR charge was exactly 25% of the TOTAL fare? And if you were really in contact with the pax after the ride, why not simply ask if they hit the 15% or the 25% button? Something ain't right here... was this all done through the app? Since they have no other way of contacting you directly.... If this is legit, Uber may have charged the tip and the returned item fee (of $15) together, and that should be $26.76. Maybe they misread or reported it to you rounded down.
> 
> 
> And how are you getting TEXTS from the pax after the ride is over? Not possible, unless you gave them your phone number, and why would you do that? Why would a pax text you that they didn't get the tipping screen anyway? I'm calling BS on this whole thing unless you can justify these irregularities...


If u read an earlier post, the passengers left a couple of items in my car so I called to inform them and I asked for their phone number so I can arrange for a return. Idk why u think I would make something up like this, I left a few details that I have my reason for not disclosing but u shouldnt take it too personal. If this post in anyway offends u, just remember that I am only seeking advice.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Bad uber pro said:


> Idk why u think I would make something up like this, I left a few details that I have my reason for not disclosing but u should take too personal.


This is a tough audience and the situation is smelling fishier and fishier.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Let us know if you contact Uber about the lost item fee. Based on their reply there are several possible directions you can go with this.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> Does the math work out in any scenario? Let's test this:
> 
> $104.01 - Rider pays for ride. No tip yet.
> $ 25.84 - Uber service fee
> ...


I never asked Uber for a lost item fee. Let's just say I found a couple of items and I wasn't sure if it belonged to that customer or it was from
a previous trip. 
Let me tell u a story, I heard not too long ago of a driver who took a few passengers home. The customer in the front seat, who was using the app for the first time handed the driver the phone and asked him to show him how to add the tip. The driver obliged, grabbed the phone, ended the trip from his phone and waited on the rating screen to pop up, this driver asked the passenger as he's leaning on the center console looking at his phone " r u satisfied with the service?" customer " Well, it could have been better if u found us an open liquor store Ha Ha" Driver " well, next time for sure...when I pick u up, I will have a bottle of vodka ready for u" driver continued " This first screen is for rating, u don't wanna give any driver anything under 5 stars unless u really mad at them, so I guess 5 star is ok?" passenger nodded his head so driver entered 5 starts.... next page was the tipping page, again driver " and here u have 3 options to choose from ... ( read the options) which one do u want me to select?" ... passenger said " 30% " which wasn't an option so driver was like " well, 25% is the highest u can go here" And that driver was telling me as I am writing this... clicked on 25% and saw it change color from white to black....I just looked at his face when he was telling me this story and I know for a fact ( it wasn't a miss click, it wasn't anything else, it wasn't Uber this or that or miscalculated or anything) that he pressed the 25% option.... and I would bet my life on it that he's telling the truth and I would bet my life on it that he didn't miss click. Passenger left the car and the driver waiting for the final total to show, to his surprise it was only some $70 something dollars knowing the trip took a loooong time to complete, he opened the trip and it wasn't showing any tips added. He said as he's going home, he stopped at whataburger drive through which the line was long and kept refreshing his pay, he knew he should get a big tip since he actually entered it himself so just sat there in the parking lot turning on and off the app. He said about 27 min later, the tip popped up... but it only showed about half what he thought he was getting. He said he calculated that every possible way but nothing made sense so next step he said is to find a way to contact the customer. He was so sure something was going on , he was saying the only way he can think about is to call and ask the customer if a few items that left in the car was his ( cheap sunglasses, and a couple of beer cozies) 
He said he asked the customer for their number so he can send a picture of the items, I think that driver was sure that those items didn't belong to him but just a way to build report and ask about the charges. Connect the dots here ... I think u know what I am trying to get to.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

I'm reading you.

But again, even though you did not request a lost item fee, can it be said for sure that Uber didn't add one? It appears to me that a lost item fee does NOT factor in here. But I have never pursued a lost item fee so I don't know if it is automatic once a lost item has been discovered/returned. But it's just a question of accounting for all possible explanations as to why your tip credit was smaller than expected.

Regardless, Uber seems to be, at a minimum, not disclosing its full policy/procedures here. On the other end of the scale they have absconded with your property.

I therefore strongly urge you to take this to the next level. Naysayers aside, you are in a unique position to possibly make a huge difference to the driver community at large. My "advice" would be two-fold:

1) Contact an attorney. Consultations are often no charge. Find either an attorney who specializes in consumer law, or maybe even GIG economy law, or, look up attorneys who have already taken Uber to court. See what they say.

2) Contact Jalopnik. They have the interest and the resources to both reach other drivers who may have had a similar validated experience (on the surface your story sounds valid to me), and most important, Jalopnik might undertake its own study employing a pool of selected riders and drivers. (I'm sure you see what _I'm_ getting to). ;>

There is a 3) as well but I will message you privately about that.

/cc


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

[


Coastal_Cruiser said:


> I'm reading you.
> 
> But again, even though you did not request a lost item fee, can it be said for sure that Uber didn't add one? It appears to me that a lost item fee does NOT factor in here. But I have never pursued a lost item fee so I don't know if it is automatic once a lost item has been discovered/returned. But it's just a question of accounting for all possible explanations as to why your tip credit was smaller than expected.
> 
> ...


Let's put aside this return fee idea. I never contacted the passenger that day. And the screen shot from that night ( which is posted ) looks exactly the same as the one today. How would Uber know there is missing items that need to be returned that night? when I never contacted them about anything until after I started this thread. I can post a screen shot of the time when I got the notification of the tip if that helps .... which was less than 27 min after ending the trip. Mind u, the contact with the customer happened when I started this thread. Again, wasn't sure if the " items belonged to the passenger" so wouldn't hurt to contact them after the fact to check. Needless to say, the items aren't worth more than $10 in value so it wouldn't make sense to drive to prosper to return those unless they hold a sentimental value to the customer.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> Let's put aside this return fee idea.


Very well. Makes sense.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

MUGATS said:


> Wouldn't it be easy to prove they were stealing tips. Just have your spouse/friend/another driver sign up and try to request you.
> 
> Then have them tip whatever and see if you get it?
> 
> I mean I'm sure you could do this multiple times and see if they skim.


This is the only post that makes sense. When I sued uber for up front fare breach of contract, I took a few rides and compared my receipt to pax receipt. If they are stealing tips and you can find a couple of examples you have gold. I can easily hook you up with an attorney. Personally I have my doubts. As criminal as they are, a fraud of this nature would cost them a fortune and since several people would have to be involved, would probably ride to the level of criminal behaviors that would get jail time.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

The algorithm has loads of quirks and features, and I would be willing to bet whatever tip appeared on the pax receipt is what you were paid as a tip. That fare could be adjusted with or without stealing involved.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

*ISSUE RESOLVED (maybe)*
Ok @Bad uber pro , thanks for that detailed explanation, and I do follow you and apologize for the suspicions, but you must admit this is a fairly convoluted tale. You have explained it in such a way as to make sense though and the dots are fairly well connected. However, you are likely wrong about one thing: there almost certainly WAS a return fee associated with this. And @Coastal_Cruiser, I have collected these on several occasions, so I'm famiar with how it works: The very fact of reporting it generates a claim, which is then verified by pax after the item is returned. When verified, the pax CC is autobilled $15 for the return, as per their contract with Uber. You don't need to do any further action to get the fee. It also does not show up on the ride ticket, at least that's my memory. So, as I stated a few posts ago, the simple solution to the 2 CC charges is that the $26 is the sum of the return fee ($15) plus the 15% tip (11.xx). The pax likely just reported a rounded figure of $26 when it was probably $26.xx.

Now, to the issue of the correct %. You say you are very sure the driver pressed 25% and not 15% on the pax's phone. Ok, lets roll with that (though that driver could still be in error). Then the app simply misfired. These things happen. I pressed accept on 3 lyft rides today and every one of them misfired and acted as a rejection. Even got nasty text and email from the lyft autoresponders telling me to turn my app off if I'm not available. Point is: phones are touchy things, apps do have bugs, communication errors can occur, and then it's also possible it got messed up at the server end. But the important thing is to see if the numbers match up. @Bad uber pro , please check your pay statement carefully online (not in the app). It should show if they added a $15 returned item fee. If you can't find it, call support and ask if it was added. They will be able to verify yes or no.

To the issue of what the Uber % tip applies to: I checked my latest 3 tips that were odd amounts (indicating % tips). They were all close to either 15, or 25%, but interestingly not exact! So, either there's a glitch in the app, or at the server end. These should be to the nearest penny, and they were off by as much as $1.20. Does this prove fraud? No, it only proves they have a crappy IT team. Now, the important point here is that for me, *these %'s applied only to the driver portion*, and not to the entire fare (which is ridiculous as I complained about in a previous post). But that's the fact. So, you really need to call support and check your pay statement to see if it is kosher.

I'm on the same page as @Disgusted Driver in that it's highly unlikely they have a policy of or an intentional program to rip off drivers of tips. As sleazy as their operations are, this would show up in an audit at end of year and would be known by many potential whistleblowers within the company. Just not likely by design. Could they have faulty software? Certainly!

Let us know what you find out regarding the returned item fee!


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> Let's put aside this return fee idea. I never contacted the passenger that day. And the screen shot from that night ( which is posted ) looks exactly the same as the one today. How would Uber know there is missing items that need to be returned that night? when I never contacted them about anything until after I started this thread. I can post a screen shot of the time when I got the notification of the tip if that helps .... which was less than 27 min after ending the trip. Mind u, the contact with the customer happened when I started this thread. Again, wasn't sure if the " items belonged to the passenger" so wouldn't hurt to contact them after the fact to check. Needless to say, the items aren't worth more than $10 in value so it wouldn't make sense to drive to prosper to return those unless they hold a sentimental value to the customer.


Ok, missed this post before... Uber didn't need to know about missing items to calculate (or miscalculate) the tip at 15%. But in your above comment, you are contradicting yourself. You say you "never contacted the passenger that day" and then "contact with customer happened when I started this thread" which WAS the same day. Please try and be more precise in your language. We are only conjecturing the $26 CC charge based on the customer report which I presumed was a second contact. This mystery will not be solved until you divulge ALL the facts. Did you contact the rider once or twice regarding the returned items? And, if twice, was the $26 CC charge reported to you on the second contact (i.e. AFTER the returned item was accepted by the rider)?, and could thus be inclusive of the resolved "returned items"?


Daisey77 said:


> Is it possible the Rider went in and adjusted the tip from 25% down to 15% due to The returned item fee? Basically capping you out at $25? maybe they had a predetermined amount ($25)
> to give you and due to the returned item fee they went and lowered your tip?,


It's not possible the rider adjusted the tip since he's saying the ride ticket screen shot was immediately after the tip registered (27 min after trip), which was long before the returned item issue entered the picture.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Ok, missed this post before... Uber didn't need to know about missing items to calculate (or miscalculate) the tip at 15%. But in your above comment, you are contradicting yourself. You say you "never contacted the passenger that day" and then "contact with customer happened when I started this thread" which WAS the same day. Please try and be more precise in your language. We are only conjecturing the $26 CC charge based on the customer report which I presumed was a second contact. This mystery will not be solved until you divulge ALL the facts. Did you contact the rider once or twice regarding the returned items? And, if twice, was the $26 CC charge reported to you on the second contact (i.e. AFTER the returned item was accepted by the rider)?, and could thus be inclusive of the resolved "returned items"?
> 
> It's not possible the rider adjusted the tip since he's saying the ride ticket screen shot was immediately after the tip registered (27 min after trip), which was long before the returned item issue entered the picture.


@Jenga ... if u work for Uber and trying to find out who I am, u did a good job as I am attaching the time and date of this trip. Now, if i said next day... I meant after I went to bed and woke up. Between the hours of 5pm-7pm on Sunday. Check again the thread when I said I couldn't update the OP. The idea of this returned item fee is nonsense to me, here is a screen shot from today. Please please please, look harder and try to find another way to discredit me. I am here to answer all your tough questions :smiles:
FWI, the rider had more than a few drinks... there was no possible way for him to update the tip in the next 30 min. For god sake I had to help him with everything....knowing the situation in hand, I am certain he never had a chance to look at his phone by the time he made it inside before he passed out.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> @Jenga ... if u work for Uber and trying to find out who I am, u did a good job as I am attaching the time and date of this trip. Now, if i said next day... I meant after I went to bed and woke up. Between the hours of 5pm-7pm on Sunday. Check again the thread when I said I couldn't update the OP. The idea of this returned item fee is nonsense to me, here is a screen shot from today. Please please please, look harder and try to find another way to discredit me. I am here to answer all your tough questions :smiles:
> FWI, the rider had more than a few drinks... there was no possible way for him to update the tip in the next 30 min. For god sake I had to help him with everything....knowing the situation in hand, I am certain he never had a chance to look at his phone by the time he made it inside before he passed out.


Discredit you? Are ;you dense? I just got through saying I believe you, and I already dismissed @Daisey77's idea that the tip was updated! I'm just trying to solve this mystery that you have created here. But it's very difficult, because you keep changing the story by adding important new details that you previously left out, and generally making a very poor witness! And you still haven't clarified when you contacted the rider, and how many times. And you have NOT answered my "tough" questions!* Please read and answer my previous questions in my post titled "Issue Resolved" before replying again.*

And also: Did you *check* your pay statement for a return fee AND ask support if they awarded one? (These can be very delayed in showing up and don't necessarily show up on the ride receipt!) This is a valid question that you can't completely dismiss UNTIL you've checked it out! Why? Because the fact you ultimately got the contact info for the rider proves that you contacted Uber. And Uber will not give you the contact info unless you already claimed a found item! And if you claimed a found item, that's all that's necessary to generate a returned item fee, together with the rider confirming it. *You can't dismiss the return fee until you verify it was not given. Understand?*


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Discredit you? Are ;you dense? I just got through saying I believe you, and I already dismissed @Daisey77's idea that the tip was updated! I'm just trying to solve this mystery that you have created here. But it's very difficult, because you keep changing the story by adding important new details that you previously left out, and generally making a very poor witness! And you still haven't clarified when you contacted the rider, and how many times. And you have NOT answered my "tough" questions!* Please read and answer my previous questions in my post titled "Issue Resolved" before replying again.*
> 
> And also: Did you *check* your pay statement for a return fee AND ask support if they awarded one? (These can be very delayed in showing up and don't necessarily show up on the ride receipt!) This is a valid question that you can't completely dismiss UNTIL you've checked it out! Why? Because the fact you ultimately got the contact info for the rider proves that you contacted Uber. And Uber will not give you the contact info unless you already claimed a found item! And if you claimed a found item, that's all that's necessary to generate a returned item fee, together with the rider confirming it. *You can't dismiss the return fee until you verify it was not given. Understand?*


Ok... here are statements from last week and this week where clearly there is no returned items. Now let me give u specific timelines. I ended the trip at 2.10 am on Sunday, I checked every 5 minutes till I saw the tip around 2.37 am ....Around 2.45 am, I wrote this post so mind u.... I already know about the $11.xx went to bed. Woke up every few hours, read the comments and responded here. Now till around 5.30pm customer was not contacted. Now in my mind ... this was a new day since I just woke up from a few hours sleep. I made contact through the App. And that's how we exchanged numbers and the contact stayed outside the App. So at 2.37 am the tip is at $11.xx ... at 7pm the tip still at $11.xx and up till today still the same . No returned item fees anywhere. My only question to u and please follow me on this, assuming I am correct with the numbers the customer gave me and I post a receipt from the customer showing on the tip line $26.00 .... where do I go from here?


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

How about this theory; when the pax puts in a $ amount you get that money but when the pax puts in a %, Uber only gives you that % on your share.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Jenga said:


> To the issue of what the Uber % tip applies to: I checked my latest 3 tips that were odd amounts (indicating % tips). They were all close to either 15, or 25%, but interestingly not exact! So, either there's a glitch in the app, or at the server end. These should be to the nearest penny, and they were off by as much as $1.20.


Jenga, in the case of your examples of the amounts not matching % exactly, was the error in Uber's favor or your favor?


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

So if you know Uber is stealing tips find a lawyer and take them to court. Corporate records would be requested and audited from an outside source. I would think giving proof of one occurrence would be enough to motivate an attorney to go after a big fish and I am sure it would turn into one huge class action case if it was true.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

FLKeys said:


> So if you know Uber is stealing tips find a lawyer and take them to court. Corporate records would be requested and audited from an outside source. I would think giving proof of one occurrence would be enough to motivate an attorney to go after a big fish and I am sure it would turn into one huge class action case if it was true.


He cant unless he opted out of arbitration and it can't turn into a HUGE class action. Since only 4,500 drivers out of 3 million drivers opted out of arbitration.



Jenga said:


> Then the app simply misfired. These things happen





Jenga said:


> They were all close to either 15, or 25%, but interestingly not exact! So, either there's a glitch in the app, or at the server end. These should be to the nearest penny, and they were off by as much as $1.20. Does this prove fraud? No, it only proves they have a crappy IT team


Crappy IT team?? ??? well their annual salary highly suggest otherwise. if they were really that crappy, this is one area where Uber could minimize their losses. For a company whose an "IT company" as they claim to be, I think it's fair for people to expect a more precise app and less errors on the server end. Especially if these errors favor one specific partner


Jenga said:


> would be known by many potential whistleblowers within the company.


??? because every potential whistleblower would be made aware of this? 
Just stop . . . Please just stop. There's no cure for narcissism



Bad uber pro said:


> @Jenga ... if u work for Uber and trying to find out who I am, u did a good job as I am attaching the time and date of this trip. Now, if i said next day... I meant after I went to bed and woke up. Between the hours of 5pm-7pm on Sunday. Check again the thread when I said I couldn't update the OP. The idea of this returned item fee is nonsense to me, here is a screen shot from today. Please please please, look harder and try to find another way to discredit me. I am here to answer all your tough questions :smiles:
> FWI, the rider had more than a few drinks... there was no possible way for him to update the tip in the next 30 min. For god sake I had to help him with everything....knowing the situation in hand, I am certain he never had a chance to look at his phone by the time he made it inside before he passed out.


That's exactly what she's doing. You need to stop falling for it. You and only you know what truly happened and that's all that matters. You don't have to prove yourself to anyone especially if it has potential to jeopardize your source of income. It's extremely narcissistic of her, trying to make you feel crazy. There is no reasoning with these people. They will never ever see things from your perspective. All while you are trying to prove yourself to them and in this case giving up information that can easily have you identified. At this point, protect yourself and quit playing into the mind games


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> He cant unless he opted out of arbitration and it can't turn into a HUGE class action. Since only 4,500 drivers out of 3 million drivers opted out of arbitration.


Pretty sure if Uber was stealing tips it would invalidate the arbitration agreement for everyone regarding a stolen tip law suite.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Bad uber pro said:


> Ok... here are statements from last week and this week where clearly there is no returned items. Now let me give u specific timelines. I ended the trip at 2.10 am on Sunday, I checked every 5 minutes till I saw the tip around 2.37 am ....Around 2.45 am, I wrote this post so mind u.... I already know about the $11.xx went to bed. Woke up every few hours, read the comments and responded here. Now till around 5.30pm customer was not contacted. Now in my mind ... this was a new day since I just woke up from a few hours sleep. I made contact through the App. And that's how we exchanged numbers and the contact stayed outside the App. So at 2.37 am the tip is at $11.xx ... at 7pm the tip still at $11.xx and up till today still the same . No returned item fees anywhere. My only question to u and please follow me on this, assuming I am correct with the numbers the customer gave me and I post a receipt from the customer showing on the tip line $26.00 .... where do I go from here?


My God! You really can't follow instructions, can you! And your timeline above is not at all clear...
Specifically:
1. You didn't answer my questions regarding WHEN the rider told you about the $26 CC charge. *Was it In a 2nd contact AFTER you made and resolved the found item claim? *
2. You need to go to your DASHBOARD at partners.uber.com like I said. Instead, you posted their BS summary from the app! *WRONG! That's not going to show the returned item fee!* Go to your dashboard, click on "Pay Statements" then click on sub-tab "Statements". Click on Sun, Nov. 3 and look on the far right for a column that says either "Fare Adjustments" or it might even say "Returned item fee". If you see a $15 amount, that will be the returned item fee. *Do you see ANY item that is $15 for that day?*
3. *Did you contact customer support and ASK them about this? *Unbelievably, you have not ever mentioned trying to straighten this out directly with them.

Until you answer ALL these questions completely, we can not get to the bottom of this.

And lastly, please stop conjecturing. If you can get a screen shot from pax, then DO IT! Don't assume you have it when you don't. And while you're at it, *ask rider to confirm the EXACT amount of the 2nd CC charge. Was it $26 even or something more?*

Please don't post again until you have answered all questions *in bold* and performed all steps above!!!


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

^^^^^ Dang I got 5 notifications for THIS?? ?



Jenga said:


> Please don't post again until you have answered all questions *in bold* and performed all steps above!!!


Wow . . . you have issues. Who are you to tell a member to not post again? Not only to not post but to add demands that need to be met first? If you're not a shill, what are you? You surely can't be a driver with such a temper


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> ^^^^^ Dang I got 5 notifications for THIS?? ?
> 
> Wow . . . you have issues. Who are you to tell a member to not post again? Not only to not post but to add demands that need to be met first? If you're not a shill, what are you? You surely can't be a driver with such a temper
> View attachment 374445


She is the only one who is playing detective and calling my BS since day one.... All her skepticism and the way she responds makes me think she works for Uber ?‍♂. I will keep posting screenshots for what she is asking for entertainment purposes. Either she will realize that this problem exists and help address it with some solutions instead of attacking people... or keep just saying that things don't add up and this is all just fake news :rollseyes:



Jenga said:


> My God! You really can't follow instructions, can you! And your timeline above is not at all clear...
> Specifically:
> 1. You didn't answer my questions regarding WHEN the rider told you about the $26 CC charge. *Was it In a 2nd contact AFTER you made and resolved the found item claim? *
> 2. You need to go to your DASHBOARD at partners.uber.com like I said. Instead, you posted their BS summary from the app! *WRONG! That's not going to show the returned item fee!* Go to your dashboard, click on "Pay Statements" then click on sub-tab "Statements". Click on Sun, Nov. 3 and look on the far right for a column that says either "Fare Adjustments" or it might even say "Returned item fee". If you see a $15 amount, that will be the returned item fee. *Do you see ANY item that is $15 for that day?*
> ...


1. When first contact was made, phone numbers were exchanged... Subsequent contact was made directly between me and the passenger. I offered to send a picture to the customer to verify if the items belonged to him and since we made 3 stops to drop off friends on the way home.... he wasn't sure so he was going to share the pictures to find out if they belonged to any. Before I sent the picture... I sent a text asking if it was possible to verify the amount of the transaction and the response on sec transaction was exactly $26.00. 
2. I am attaching what u requested and u can look for yourself and see if there is anything that has $15 on it. 
FYI ... Any Uber driver knows that 4 am is when the day resets . For example trips taken at 2 am on the 3rd are posted on the 2nd. So if I said I didn't contact the customer that same day ( technicality I am right ?).
I can understand this could be a little complicated for u if u don't drive but we are here to learn from each other. 
3. Absolutely didn't contact support, wasn't planning on it and doesn't want to straighten anything out until all the pending transactions clear and get the final screenshot from the customer's C.C
I have my beliefs of what did happen. All ur posts mocking me, hinting of how slow I am and how little attention to the details I am paying, how I can't answer simple questions when I been literally responding to everyone doesn't help support your idea of fake news but only makes u look like a slave to the corporate world. 
If getting to the bottom of this ends with me getting deactivated then please ... Let's not get to the bottom of this ?


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

FLKeys said:


> Pretty sure if Uber was stealing tips it would invalidate the arbitration agreement for everyone regarding a stolen tip law suite.


I don't think so. Breach of contact isn't enough to invalidate the arbitration agreement. I think what would happen is that state attorney general's would have to get involved, and prosecute uber for theft. But, in order for them to get around to it someone would have to make the case.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> Wow . . . you have issues. Who are you to tell a member to not post again? Not only to not post but to add demands that need to be met first? If you're not a shill, what are you? You surely can't be a driver with such a temper


I just put it on ignore.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

@Bad uber pro
First off, your not going to get deactivated. What did you do wrong? It's not against TOS to help pax with the app. You should get credit for that!

As to your answers:
Q1: your answer is still not clear. I'm trying to determine if a) a claim for return of lost item was filed with Uber (will be True if you clicked that option in the app and Uber connected you with rider after trip completion) and b) if the rider told you about the $26 charge AFTER he confirmed with Uber that the item was returned. If this charge was BEFORE the confirmation of returned item, it cannot include the returned item fee, and this theory of mine would be debunked.
Q2: your screen shot is still a bit sketchy due to cropping, but it does look like they haven't credited a return fee - at least not yet.
Q3: While I understand not wanting to make a complaint yet without ALL the evidence, you should have at least ASKED them about the tip entry and how it was derived. That's not likely to generate an issue yet, since you're simply asking how it was calculated. Frankly, this should have been part of your due diligence before ever posting this whole debacle.

As for my insulting you, I do apologize, but you seriously have not laid out this issue in a very straightforward manner. It's drip, drip of information and makes it completely difficult to diagnose what may have happened due to your lack of clarity.

There is really no point in trying to figure this out any further until you contact support. But please do let us all know how this pans out as it could effect us all in some way. That's the only reason I've been hanging in here so far. If we truly are being ripped off, either intentionally or due to bad programming, then we ALL deserve to know about it and have our grievances heard and corrected.



Coastal_Cruiser said:


> Jenga, in the case of your examples of the amounts not matching % exactly, was the error in Uber's favor or your favor?


Great question, which prompted me to do further analysis on recent % tippage!

Here's the data I have for several trips:
% total trip % driver share
14.99 ....... 19.32
19.99 ....... 25.93
19.46 ....... 25.62
19.96 ....... 25.81
19.97 ....... 28.73
14.99. ....... 23.44

After looking at the data this way, it becomes clear that the % does in fact come out of the total ride! The variances I was seeing seemed close to and on either side of 20 or 25% of driver share. But the consistency is stronger against the total trip. While still variances, most are just a hair below 15% or 20% and indicates that Uber rounds DOWN in favor of the rider (not Uber, since they are clearly passing the full amounts through with a few anomalies.)

It would appear that the $26 on @Bad uber pro's rider CC is in fact the correct amount as he stated all along!

So, now I have a NEW theory: In doing this research I noticed that some of my rides on a particular Sunday didn't appear until the FOLLOWING week. And it was not split on official time for changeover either. Hear that, @Bad uber pro ? It appears that processing delays may cause some fares to be posted late and not make the cutoff for the current week (regardless of time of ride). I would expect the return fee could have simply missed the cutoff.* So you should make sure to check next week's statement for the return fee to show up. What this means for the tip which already shows up from last week is that it is INVALID!!! However, they may post an adjustment next week IF YOU REPORT IT NOW! *


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

And to all those calling me a shill: better watch your backs...:jimlad::blackalien:


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Jenga said:


> you seriously have not laid out this issue in a very straightforward manner. It's drip, drip of information and makes it completely difficult to diagnose what may have happened due to your lack of clarity.


??? wait . . . are you describing the OP or U/L?


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

MUGATS said:


> I mean I'm sure you could do this multiple times and see if they skim.


That would be a way to document some proof. But, that is much harder than just getting on a message board, throwing out potentially unsubstantiated allegations.


----------



## Cassiopeia (Sep 2, 2019)

Could it be that money today is worth more than money tomorrow + lawsuit? >>>> I know big corps often operate in this fashion. >>>> Uber feels like a sinking ship where the crew try to keep it afloat as long as possible so they can collect their salaries >>>> When it actually goes down they have a lifeboat (resume) to take them to the next boat (startup)


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

FYI - It is worth noting that skimming small amounts of money off of transactions has been a practice since accounting systems were automated. This is known as 'Salami slicing', 'penny rounding', 'cash shaving', etc. It can take the form of anything from rounding down a transaction that produces a sum such as $1.016, in which case the amount would be rounded down to $1.01 rather than $1.02, with the .006 remainder being diverted into another account controlled by the perpetrator.

This can also happen on a larger scale with the decimal place moved to the left. Over time the skim can add up to millions.

This is NOT what I am suggesting is happening here. However, the the general idea of skimming funds on the basis no one will notice is in the lexicon. If, repeat if, Uber is slicing off difficult to verify slices of tips in the proportions of bad uber pro's example we are talking astronomical figures.

It is also not unheard of that corporations, brokerage houses, etc. have raided customers accounts. This is a reality. Hubris, ego, self delusion all played a part in the scam perpetrated by Enron and other of that ilk not that many years ago. There is an old saying: "Desperate people do desperate things.".

The fact remains at this point that the $26 claimed to be debited from the rider's credit card has yet to be accounted for beyond the $11.76 credited to his driver account as a tip. That leaves $14.24 unaccounted for. I have urged the OP to contact support and get their explanations on record.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-salami-technique/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> FYI - It is worth noting that skimming small amounts of money off of transactions has been a practice since accounting systems were automated. This is known as 'Salami slicing', 'penny rounding', 'cash shaving', etc. It can take the form of anything from rounding down a transaction that produces a sum such as $1.016, in which case the amount would be rounded down to $1.01 rather than $1.02, with the .006 remainder being diverted into another account controlled by the perpetrator.


In Uber's case, it would make more sense and look more "innocent" if they simply had a "programming glitch" which robbed every nth driver of a large part of their tip. In this case so far, it appears they have robbed nearly 55% of the tip owed to @Bad uber pro. How many pennies would it take to equal that? Beats the hell out of the salami method, since there is plausible deniability. "We don't know how it's happened, but we're working on it."

On the larger scale of things, this whole issue just illustrates how Uber is functioning as a transportation company, NOT merely a tech company, as they purport themselves to be. I mean, this could never happen if they weren't in complete control of the purse strings - dictating who gets how much, and then hiding all transactions done with the pax from us. According to Uber, we don't work for THEM, they work for US! If we are truly "independent" contractors, and the pax are OUR customers, not Uber's (as they claim) then we have every right to validate the money end of things *directly with OUR customers*, and not have to trust our "hired" middlemen to do it for us. There WILL eventually be a class action on this, and it's going to end one of two ways:

1. Either WE get the right to set our own fees, see our FULL contracts with OUR customers (i.e. Including where the hell they are going) BEFORE accepting the contract, and follow up with them on finances, etc. We also need full control of auditing the books.

2. Or Uber gets determined to be a transportation company, and has to pay us as employees with full benefits as long as we work full time.

There is no other fair way to continue this relationship.


----------



## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Just did another 9 rides with zero tips. Normally I have tips for at least fifty percent of my rides. I cannot even stomach trying to talk to the Manila liars at this point (the third world call center operators will make it worse). How can they be stealing tips? Because it doesn't expressly state in the TOS that we agreed to that tips will go to drivers. In other words they are taking our tips and there is nothing we can do about it.

The one thing that I am going to do is start rating every rider a 3 or below if they don't tip in cash. This will then ultimately bring down their ratings which, at least for the smart drivers, will result in their getting longer pick up times and crappier service from those who accept sub-4.90 rated paxoles. The stealing of tips is wrong on any level and if calculated by the number of trips being given and tips stolen it literally could result in millions of dollars being stolen. Uber really does not understand that as their employees (and we are even if they arbitrarily and conveniently want to define us as something else) get more and more upset by their stealing, greed, immoral, and unethical practices that ultimately that is passed on to the paxoles experience.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

nouberipo said:


> Just did another 9 rides with zero tips. Normally I have tips for at least fifty percent of my rides. I cannot even stomach trying to talk to the Manila liars at this point (the third world call center operators will make it worse). How can they be stealing tips? Because it doesn't expressly state in the TOS that we agreed to that tips will go to drivers. In other words they are taking our tips and there is nothing we can do about it.
> 
> The one thing that I am going to do is start rating every rider a 3 or below if they don't tip in cash. This will then ultimately bring down their ratings which, at least for the smart drivers, will result in their getting longer pick up times and crappier service from those who accept sub-4.90 rated paxoles. The stealing of tips is wrong on any level and if calculated by the number of trips being given and tips stolen it literally could result in millions of dollars being stolen. Uber really does not understand that as their employees (and we are even if they arbitrarily and conveniently want to define us as something else) get more and more upset by their stealing, greed, immoral, and unethical practices that ultimately that is passed on to the paxoles experience.


Actually it does state tips go to drivers. Are you anew driver? Tips sometimes go in cycles. Ive had runs like that an worse! Tips are all about psychology of the pax. If the weather or traffic is bad, or money is tight or even if they 'don't ''feel the love'' from you, they will hold back. Your jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence. Of course we have every right to be suspicious since we have no control or means of verification. And we know they couldn't care less about us...


----------



## Lady WaWa (Oct 20, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Tips are like the weather. When it rains, it pours...and droughts can last for weeks.
> 
> Don't worry. Just keep being yourself, and eventually a payday will come.
> 
> (As for the Uber stealing your tips issue...I've never seen that happen to me. My tips show up all the time. Unfortunately, there are some days where you get nothing but no-tip pax in your car. Like I said, when it rains...it pours.)


How do you know your tips show up all the time? How do you know they are not skimming a couple bucks a day from you?

https://teamster.org/news/2019/05/teamsters-union-stands-solidarity-uber-lyft-drivers


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Lady WaWa said:


> How do you know your tips show up all the time? How do you know they are not skimming a couple bucks a day from you?


How does Uber know that you're not shuffling on them? What you say you do that? With all the *****ing about tips here, I expected none but I average 10%. Sometimes none when it seems you have it locked in and sometime a generous tip when you least expect it. It is just the sociology if RS.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

On Tuesday I didn’t shower or shave and got 10 tips out of 11 rides. Wednesday I showered and detailed my car, only got 1 tip out of 10. ??‍♂

I agree with the waves of tippers . Some days you get more deadbeats, and other days you can get the majority of tippers.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Lady WaWa said:


> How do you know your tips show up all the time? How do you know they are not skimming a couple bucks a day from you?
> 
> https://teamster.org/news/2019/05/teamsters-union-stands-solidarity-uber-lyft-drivers


Every time a passenger says they'll tip in me the app -- believe it or not -- a tip comes through from them. Even more often, a passenger says nothing about tipping me and yet, $5 magically appears minutes after the ride. Here in the Midwest, people are generous and stay true to their word. Many of my regular pax (people who are in my car frequently) have well-known tipping routines. Their tips always show up in the app as well.

If Uber was skimming my tips, I'd have a big trail of missing tips to follow. No such trail exists.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

rkozy said:


> Every time a passenger says they'll tip in me the app -- believe it or not -- a tip comes through from them. Even more often, a passenger says nothing about tipping me and yet, $5 magically appears minutes after the ride. Here in the Midwest, people are generous and stay true to their word. Many of my regular pax (people who are in my car frequently) have well-known tipping routines. Their tips always show up in the app as well.
> 
> If Uber was skimming my tips, I'd have a big trail of missing tips to follow. No such trail exists.


How do you know "no trail exists"? You wouldn't necessarily have a big trail of missing tips. I don't think by any means they would be stupid enough to take the entire tip But they could definitely skim a couple dollars off the top. I'm not saying they are or they aren't but there is literally no way we would know if they were doing so


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> How do you know "no trail exists"? You wouldn't necessarily have a big trail of missing tips. I don't think by any means they would be stupid enough to take the entire tip But they could definitely skim a couple dollars off the top. I'm not saying they are or they aren't but there is literally no way we would know if they were doing so


How do I know you're not using Uber to pick up your murder victims? I don't think by any means you'd be daring enough to kill every passenger you have in your car, but you definitely could kill a few riders every week and cleverly avoid detection. I'm not saying you are or you aren't but there is literally no way we would know if you were doing that.

Absent any proof you are not killing some of your passengers, we can only assume that you already may have done that. Luckily for you, we live in a country where proof is generally required to make a legal case against someone.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Uber doesn't need to fuuck you in the aass by stealing tips, they have more subtle and effective means.


----------



## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> about as effective as jerking off a carrot. you think


?????


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

rkozy said:


> How do I know you're not using Uber to pick up your murder victims? I don't think by any means you'd be daring enough to kill every passenger you have in your car, but you definitely could kill a few riders every week and cleverly avoid detection. I'm not saying you are or you aren't but there is literally no way we would know if you were doing that.
> 
> Absent any proof you are not killing some of your passengers, we can only assume that you already may have done that. Luckily for you, we live in a country where proof is generally required to make a legal case against someone.







Well I'm going to do my best to link your scenario with the current scenario. First of all there would be a way to know because there would be dead bodies? second of all, if there's reason to suspect someone is murdering someone such as two people order an Uber and only one makes it out of the Uber, I would definitely suggest it gets investigated. Sort of like someone sees the tip and not all of the tip makes it in their pocket, it should probably be looked into. You act like he's just completely making this up out of nowhere. He has reason to suspect tip skimming. that's the best I got dude with what you gave me to work with??

I don't know why everyone's on the OP's ass. Typically when someone suspects such behavior from a company, the normal thing is to investigate it. They either find the company did wrong or they find the company did not do wrong. Typically the person who makes the claim is in the one getting jumped all over


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> Typically when someone suspects such behavior from a company, the normal thing is to investigate it. They either find the company did wrong or they find the company did not do wrong. Typically the person who makes the claim is in the one getting jumped all over


If I suspected Uber was stealing my tips, and had credible proof they were, I'd immediately log off the app and use my smartphone to call up some lawyers. Instead, the OP is hoping to try this case in the Court of Uberpeople.net because, well, that's just so much easier than gathering evidence and presenting an actual case, to an actual legal body, who could get some actual legal results.

If you honestly believe Uber is stealing your tips, and yet you keep working for them, you are truly a stupid person.


----------



## Bad uber pro (May 16, 2016)

rkozy said:


> If I suspected Uber was stealing my tips, and had credible proof they were, I'd immediately log off the app and use my smartphone to call up some lawyers. Instead, the OP is hoping to try this case in the Court of Uberpeople.net because, well, that's just so much easier than gathering evidence and presenting an actual case, to an actual legal body, who could get some actual legal results.
> 
> If you honestly believe Uber is stealing your tips, and yet you keep working for them, you are truly a stupid person.


The way your analogy took you to insinuate @Daisey77 could kill a few passengers a week and cleverly get away with it is all I need to know to avoid any advice from you. She even took the time to explain to you how your thought process is clearly foggy. 
But you are right on one thing, bringing something like this on here was clearly a mistake.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


I suspect they skim tips, either partially or entirely.

I know I can't prove it.

I usually have around 15% of my total earnings in tips week after week. Then I will have a couple weeks in a row where I only get 5%. AND I have great conversation airport runs, pax offers handshake..etc. Other pax tell me they will tip me in the app after difficult pickup.. etc. And I am getting almost nothing in tips.

Law of averages would state that on a weekly basis, doing 100 rides, tips would be roughly average, week over week, but instead its like a toggle switch; tips sometimes seem disabled.

We know Uber is unethical. So its a reasonable assumption that they are skimming tips.

But I think there is a sentiment that "nah, they are too big.. you are crazy for thinking it... imagine if they got caught, etc."

If I was an evil genius working for Uber and I needed to skim tips, I would disguise it as an application error so that if I was caught there would be culpable deniability.

The OTHER (probably more credible) explanation is that when you've been earning well, they FEED the TIPPERS to other drivers to share the wealth. The algorithm KNOWS who the tippers are, and they can feed them to you or not.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

lyft_rat said:


> Uber doesn't need to fuuck you in the aass by stealing tips, they have more subtle and effective means.


Yeah, like not collecting the sales tax and leaving drivers to pay it out of their share. In CA, this amounts to stealing 15% of your net.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

OldBay said:


> The OTHER (probably more credible) explanation is that when you've been earning well, they FEED the TIPPERS to other drivers to share the wealth. The algorithm KNOWS who the tippers are, and they can feed them to you or not.


Now there's a theory that actually makes some sense and doesn't require a tin foil hat to defend it. It's very possible Uber uses tipping data from a passenger's history to make sure every driver gets some of the action.

If you've been on a big winning streak with tips lately, get ready for the Uber algorithm to swing the pendulum the other way. That is a theory one can actually believe.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Now there's a theory that actually makes some sense and doesn't require a tin foil hat to defend it. It's very possible Uber uses tipping data from a passenger's history to make sure every driver gets some of the action.
> 
> If you've been on a big winning streak with tips lately, get ready for the Uber algorithm to swing the pendulum the other way. That is a theory one can actually believe.


Does that mean you have to take long pickups to mine those tips? :errwhat:

There is algorithm matching for sure and it might involve tips but I doubt it would include tip sharing. Yesterday (Friday) afternoon I was a long distance away from my best pickup when her usual ping time came up and thought I missed it for sure and was totally amazed that I still got the ping. This was very likely an algorithm match.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Now there's a theory that actually makes some sense and doesn't require a tin foil hat to defend it. It's very possible Uber uses tipping data from a passenger's history to make sure every driver gets some of the action.
> 
> If you've been on a big winning streak with tips lately, get ready for the Uber algorithm to swing the pendulum the other way. That is a theory one can actually believe.


It might also explain why some PT drivers report "astronomical" tips.

If someone is a bad driver who wastes time during bad parts of the day/ unprofitable areas, isn't efficient, turns off the app to take breaks during busy times, cancels profitable trips, turns off the app and deadheads back instead of seeking other trips, etc, etc, basically doesn't have a clue how to really earn money relative to the other drivers, the app may feed them tippers to help them out.

Really what matters in the end is "hourly rate x hours". How many hours were you able to sustain a high hourly rate? If someone reports "astronomical" tips, it doesn't really matter if they are only working 15 hours a week.

I hate the idea that the app is giving big fish to the bad drivers who don't know how to work their areas. (Might explain the "honeymoon" period.) But, IME, when I've been working hard and efficient, keeping my hourly rate high over a couple weeks, thats when tips seem to disappear.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

Jenga said:


> Yeah, like not collecting the sales tax and leaving drivers to pay it out of their share. In CA, this amounts to stealing 15% of your net.


*Correction:*

Turns out Uber does pay the sales tax, but they (stupidly) don't put it on the ride ticket!

This completely inverts my formula of calculation. So, for instance in the state of CA, if the sales tax in the county totals 10%, then instead of driver paying 15% of driver net to the tax hounds, it's Uber that pays a whopping 30% of their net to the state! Now add 3% for Visa/MC processing fees and that's 33% of their take that disappears! No wonder they can't make a profit.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

I got an odd tip amount from a friendly Uber rider yesterday, $4.98, so I Iooked at what percentage it was of what and it was exactly 16% of the fare before a rider discount of 20% was applied. Since rider had a discount coupon and I got a premium pickup fee, I made $28.25 out of the rider payment of $29.88, as it should be.


----------



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Some people have a tipping culture and some don't. 

I've had a lot of riders who tell me that the ride I gave them was the best ride they've ever had and I still don't get a tip. 

There's some people who tell me they're going to give me five stars with their tone in their voice like a grandmother telling you she's going to give you a shiny new nickel like that's supposed to be the best gift ever. I appreciate the stars and I do have a high rating but people need to understand that driving rideshare is like being a server in a restaurant. Tips make or break whetherI appreciate the stars and I do have a high rating but people need to understand that driving rideshare is like being a server in a restaurant. 

Tips make or break whether you're just getting by or making decent money.

The rideshare companies do encourage the riders to tip but they can't push the idea to hard that without tips were really not making money because that would hurt their public image.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Tips make or break whetherI appreciate the stars and I do have a high rating but people need to understand that driving rideshare is like being a server in a restaurant.


No. Driving RS is more like operating your own vegetable stand on the side of the road. Most people don't tip that guy.


----------



## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

lyft_rat said:


> I got an odd tip amount from a friendly Uber rider yesterday, $4.98, so I Iooked at what percentage it was of what and it was exactly 16% of the fare before a rider discount of 20% was applied. Since rider had a discount coupon and I got a premium pickup fee, I made $28.25 out of the rider payment of $29.88, as it should be.


16% of the full fare is equal to 20% of the already discounted 20% off fare. So your tip was 20% and calculated AFTER the discount.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Jenga said:


> 16% of the full fare is equal to 20% of the already discounted 20% off fare. So your tip was 20% and calculated AFTER the discount.


Yes, mathematically equivalent, your point being that the guy likely pressed one of the standard buttons offered to him. And the payment to me was correct.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

lyft_rat said:


> I got an odd tip amount from a friendly Uber rider yesterday, $4.98, so I Iooked at what percentage it was of what and it was exactly 16% of the fare before a rider discount of 20% was applied. Since rider had a discount coupon and I got a premium pickup fee, I made $28.25 out of the rider payment of $29.88, as it should be.





Jenga said:


> 16% of the full fare is equal to 20% of the already discounted 20% off fare. So your tip was 20% and calculated AFTER the discount.





lyft_rat said:


> Yes, mathematically equivalent, your point being that the guy likely pressed one of the standard buttons offered to him. And the payment to me was correct.


That's odd. Tip amount should be $1 more to make these statements accurate. $5.98 not $4.98


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

No. The rider's fare (pre-tip) was $24.90. 4.98/24.90 is exactly 20%.


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Bad uber pro said:


> Every now and then, I go stretches where I don't get tipped over a period of 10 to 15 rides which is very unusual for me. I raised concerns over this in earlier threads. My Uber rating is 4.94 and I drive only select and black and about 70% of my customers tip.
> Tonight I had a new Uber customer who had a few stops and didn't know how to add them so I walk them through it . When we got to their final destination, I was asked to show them how to tip... I ended the ride and the screen popped up so I watched them rate me and enter 25% tip. To my surprise, I only got a portion of the tip. I calculated every single way possible to check how they came up with that number but nothing made sense. How do we prove that Uber is keeping a big portion of our tips?And is it legal?


Only a class action lawsuit will force Uber to open its books.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

lyft_rat said:


> No. The rider's fare (pre-tip) was $24.90. 4.98/24.90 is exactly 20%.


So the coupon and the tip essentially cancel each other out . . . both being 20%. Rider paid the same regardless. Which would make the 16% calculation/statement inaccurate. 16% would have made your tip amount $5.10


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> So the coupon and the tip essentially cancel each other out . . . both being 20%. Rider paid the same regardless. Which would make the 16% calculation/statement inaccurate. 16% would have made your tip amount $5.10


No. Coupon reduces pax fare by 20%. A 20% tip on the actual charge does not bring it back to the original fare (he is not tipping on the discount amount).

I hope you don't think if the stock market drops by 20% and then rises by 20% that you are even because you are not.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

lyft_rat said:


> No. Coupon reduces pax fare by 20%. A 20% tip on the actual charge does not bring it back to the original fare (he is not tipping on the discount amount).
> 
> I hope you don't think if the stock market drops by 20% and then rises by 20% that you are even because you are not.


And we know for a fact that's how Uber calculates it. They calculate a percentage tip off the original fare? You said 16% off the original fare that would still equal $5.98. Something isn't adding up. What was the original fare amount?


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> And we know for a fact that's how Uber calculates it. They calculate a percentage tip off the original fare? You said 16% off the original fare that would still equal $5.98. Something isn't adding up. What was the original fare amount?


The original fare was 5 times the tip I received plus 20%.


----------

