# Uber fights against “onerous” insurance requirements despite driver ignorance



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

http://m.insurancebusiness.ca/news/...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Well if Uber wants to withdraw from Kansas and other states because they sucking their thumbs about not getting what they want, then let them. All they are is dust in the wind.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Sounds to me that the insurance companies need to either spell out rideshare as being against the policy in writing and the problem is solved. Not in a statement to the media, no more "you could be denied". Straight into the policy itself. Rideshare via app is not permitted.

Not sure why that either has not happened yet or the insurance companies are dragging their butts on this. But the way the policy's for some of the companies I have researched it erroneous at best and open to interpretation.

Insurance companies are as much to blame for this issue as the drivers. They legally spell out everything to consumers for other types of insurance. Why not this.

This must be addressed. Right now they are as slow as the Taxi companies and city council.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Well it seems like the best idea so far as been the metro-mile insurance that's currently active on the west coast. For part-time drivers that is.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> But the way the policy's for some of the companies I have researched it erroneous at best and open to interpretation.


Where there is smoke there is fire.
Have you asked your insurance in the course of your research?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Insurance companies are as much to blame for this issue as the drivers.


And of course Uber is blameless in this.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> http://m.insurancebusiness.ca/news/...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


...every UberX driver knows (or should know) whether or not they are playing "insurance roulette" every time they turn the key and turn-on the app. Read your damn policy and/or call your agent. Due diligence does not get any more basic than that.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> And of course Uber is blameless in this.


Well to a pro-uber-er like action-jax, of course they are.


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## nikb (Mar 21, 2015)

Why would your insurance company make that crystal clear when they know you could potentially leave them to find insurance that will cover you elsewhere if they disclosed it so specifically? Rideshare drivers driving and voiding personal policies is great for them, they get to keep taking your premium money while also denying payout. It's a win-win.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Where there is smoke there is fire.
> Have you asked your insurance in the course of your research?


I'm not going to answer your questions as you will just tweet them to the world. Then it's up to me to deal with the backlash from the industry. Being right doesn't mean I don't need to put some outlay $$$ to fight it and the aggravation involved. Frankly I don't have the time to deal with it.

I can tell you I'm covered. I just don't need to prove it anymore. Insurance company can cancel me if they feel I'm in breach. They have all my details on my activities in my policy.

I'm not here to tempt fate.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> And of course Uber is blameless in this.


Uber exposed a hole in the system and continue to exploit it.

If the bank had a hole in your loan agreement and you exposed it who's responsible to close it.

Uber is a business, it's their job to run their business against the current system. That's what makes them work. You want it stopped, get insurers to close the verbiage to cover it off properly.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I'm not going to answer your questions as you will just tweet them to the world.


Why is that a problem?
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
My tweets are meant to cut through Uber's duplicity. You know that I've tweeted extensively about Uber's Insurance in Canada. Honestly, do you think I'm helping or hurting Canadian Drivers by doing so?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Uber exposed a hole in the system and continue to exploit it.


Actually it's Uber Drivers who keep falling through this imaginary "Hole in the system".


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

nikb said:


> Why would your insurance company make that crystal clear when they know you could potentially leave them to find insurance that will cover you elsewhere if they disclosed it so specifically? Rideshare drivers driving and voiding personal policies is great for them, they get to keep taking your premium money while also denying payout. It's a win-win.


....so your theory is that insurance companies are conspiring to write purposely vague policies in order to increase their profit potential? ....that "logic" is ridiculous on it's face. The goodwill between an insurance company and it's policy holders is a far more valuable (and long term) commodity that some short-sighted "conspiracy theory". Insurance companies are in business to write and MAINTAIN policies.....not to "void" policies.


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## nikb (Mar 21, 2015)

My "conspiracy theory" was more of a joke than an actual theory. Though I will also admit to not being surprised if insurance companies are simply keeping the decades old policies against livery unspecified enough so as to let some policy holders be in the dark about what specific activities would void their contract so that the company wouldn't have to pay out. Or do you imagine that insurance companies are just itching to pay out?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Why is that a problem?
> Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
> My tweets are meant to cut through Uber's duplicity. You know that I've tweeted extensively about Uber's Insurance in Canada. Honestly, do you think I'm helping or hurting Canadian Drivers by doing so?


Not a problem in the general sense. But I'm not going to be the poster boy to test it. For me to do that will be at great cost to me individually. Being right is not enough when it comes to legal battles. You can be right and still lose everything fighting for it.

I don't mind providing feedback in writing. But I don't see a donation plate for me to go fight it on behalf of everyone here.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

nikb said:


> My "conspiracy theory" was more of a joke than an actual theory. Though I will also admit to not being surprised if insurance companies are simply keeping the decades old policies against livery unspecified enough so as to let some policy holders be in the dark about what specific activities would void their contract so that the company wouldn't have to pay out. Or do you imagine that insurance companies are just itching to pay out?


....it only took one read of my policy to know with absolute certainty what was (and was not) permitted relative to livery/for hire operations. There was no ambiguity (at least in my case).


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## nikb (Mar 21, 2015)

Worcester Sauce said:


> ....it only took one read of my policy to know with absolute certainty what was (and was not) permitted relative to livery/for hire operations. There was no ambiguity (at least in my case).


That assumes that every Uber and Lyft driver out there knows that what they do is livery. Are you sure that is the case? Specifically telling policy holders "rideshare services such as Uber and Lyft" is impossible to plead ignorance of, but there are plenty of Ill educated drivers out there who simply think that they will have no problems.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

nikb said:


> That assumes that every Uber and Lyft driver out there knows that what they do is livery. Are you sure that is the case? Specifically telling policy holders "rideshare services such as Uber and Lyft" is impossible to plead ignorance of, but there are plenty of Ill educated drivers out there who simply think that they will have no problems.


...I am only responsible for my own ignorance.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

https://quoted.thezebra.com/848/uber-vs-lyft/
*4. Insurance is a mess.








*


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> http://m.insurancebusiness.ca/news/...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Same thing happened in California. Uber loudly threatened to throw all its toys out of the buggy and ended up compromising with legislators. Lots of noise and not much substance


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Same thing happened in California. Uber loudly threatened to throw all its toys out of the buggy and ended up compromising with legislators.


Played out in this thread:
*Say bye bye to uberx in
California*


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> https://quoted.thezebra.com/848/uber-vs-lyft/
> *4. Insurance is a mess.
> View attachment 6542
> *


...pretty much sums it up...


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Played out in this thread:
> *Say bye bye to uberx in
> California*


I had a few pax tell me they were concerned about it when it was happening - they bought the hype that Uber had emailed them that the whole ride share industry was actually under threat of disappearance because of the nasty legislators.

Uber's MO is like that of a child. When you scold, he says, "I'm going to hold my breath until I DIE! THEN you'll be sorry!"


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Most if not all personal auto insurance policies in TX, carry an phrase . . . "Exclusion: Vehicles for hire" . . . which includes ride share, pizza delivery, and any use of your vehicle used to make money. (Geez, I never thought about that when I delivered newspapers!)


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Sounds to me that the insurance companies need to either spell out rideshare as being against the policy in writing and the problem is solved. Not in a statement to the media, no more "you could be denied". Straight into the policy itself. Rideshare via app is not permitted.
> 
> Not sure why that either has not happened yet or the insurance companies are dragging their butts on this. But the way the policy's for some of the companies I have researched it erroneous at best and open to interpretation.
> 
> ...


Check out wawaneesa, they spell it out clearly. No coverage while transporting goods and people for money in your car. So, I have coverage in period 1 and 2. Even though uber covers me in period 2 and 3 with Full coverage as long as I carry comp and collision with personal policy. They don't say you can't drive commercial and you have no coverage at all when your in the car by yourself while driving for uber. Still a little sketchy but they would lose a law suit by not banning commercial driving in your car.
Hope that helps, contact them and let me know what they tell you.


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## Paimei (Aug 20, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Not a problem in the general sense. But I'm not going to be the poster boy to test it. For me to do that will be at great cost to me individually. Being right is not enough when it comes to legal battles. You can be right and still lose everything fighting for it.
> 
> I don't mind providing feedback in writing. But I don't see a donation plate for me to go fight it on behalf of everyone here.


Sounds like you are like most Uber drivers, lying to their banks about the use of their car loans, and lying to their insurance about using their cars commercially. Not a business model that would let me sleep at night.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Paimei said:


> Sounds like you are like most Uber drivers, lying to their banks about the use of their car loans, and lying to their insurance about using their cars commercially. Not a business model that would let me sleep at night.


CA is different than your state, that's why they don't ban driving for uber. The insurance companies have less risk here because uber has the liability during period 2 and 3. What does my bank have to do with it? How am I lying to my bank you dipshit. And I'm not lying to my insurance company as well, they don't ask if I'm ridesharing. Your just another moronic negative non contributor here. Say something positive or at least show some back bone of proof to your comments. I drive in California, completely different insurance requirements from ride share companies that they just updated on July 1st with our state.


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## Paimei (Aug 20, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> CA is different than your state, that's why they don't ban driving for uber. The insurance companies have less risk here because uber has the liability during period 2 and 3. What does my bank have to do with it? How am I lying to my bank you dipshit. And I'm not lying to my insurance company as well, they don't ask if I'm ridesharing. Your just another moronic negative non contributor here. Say something positive or at least show some back bone of proof to your comments. I drive in California, completely different insurance requirements from ride share companies that they just updated on July 1st with our state.


No need to name call, when you apply for a loan for a new car, this is only if you have a loan or a lease, one of their specific questions is, " Will you use the car for commercial reasons, taxi, or something along that line". If you did not inform them of this fact, you would be lying. Also, most insurance company's in my state and many others, do not allow people to use their personal cars for ride-sharing or taxi, limo, ect. So, if you have a loan for your car ( you may not) , did you inform the bank that you drive commercially with it? Did you inform your insurance company that you drive commercially with your car? If you did not, the question is, why not? Before demanding proof from me ( we all know the game Uber plays with insurance ), why don't you prove that you are following the proper laws?

Assuming I will not get legitimate proof from you, probably an angry rant, I will assume you did not. 99 percent of drivers in my state are lying to their insurance carriers about driving for Uber, sot a proper business model I would follow. Nor do I want the illegally insured drivers in my town, causing unknown disruptions based on their model.
This isn't negative, this is the truth, just look under the INSURANCE forum on THIS board and you will find all the evidence you need about Uber drivers, and the lies they live with.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Paimei said:


> No need to name call, when you apply for a loan for a new car, this is only if you have a loan or a lease, one of their specific questions is, " Will you use the car for commercial reasons, taxi, or something along that line". If you did not inform them of this fact, you would be lying. Also, most insurance company's in my state and many others, do not allow people to use their personal cars for ride-sharing or taxi, limo, ect. So, if you have a loan for your car ( you may not) , did you inform the bank that you drive commercially with it? Did you inform your insurance company that you drive commercially with your car? If you did not, the question is, why not? Before demanding proof from me ( we all know the game Uber plays with insurance ), why don't you prove that you are following the proper laws?
> 
> Assuming I will not get legitimate proof from you, probably an angry rant, I will assume you did not. 99 percent of drivers in my state are lying to their insurance carriers about driving for Uber, sot a proper business model I would follow. Nor do I want the illegally insured drivers in my town, causing unknown disruptions based on their model.
> This isn't negative, this is the truth, just look under the INSURANCE forum on THIS board and you will find all the evidence you need about Uber drivers, and the lies they live with.


Your the one who started the friction by making accusations in the first place, read your post. Second, I live in California, not in your state so you have no clue how things are done here. I would not even act like an expert and be negative unless I am one. Are you an insurance broker, auto loan expert? Give it a rest, do you drive for Uber? Who are you, what is your purpose here? I did not lie to anyone, got my car before I started driving by the way. My insurance did not inquire about my ride share activities and did list as I mentioned that I have no coverage while I am transporting goods or people. No issue during period 1 or 2 when I am alone in the car. Do you know what period 1 and 2 is without googling or reading other posts here? I don't think you drive for ride share. Just posing or being an imposter to mix it up here. The drivers are here to help each other. I had an insurance adjuster look at my policy, he said I am covered by myself in the car so I am good. Not asking for approval from an out of state mystery member here. You probably work for an insurance company who is drumming up business by slinging negative info. My risk is less now for my carrier now that Uber is liable for period 2 and 3 driving which is half my monthly mileage. Other insurance companies do send out noticed informing no coverage at all if you use your car for commercial use. Mine does not so I am letting my brothers and sisters to check into using them. Are you a metro mile or farmers agent?


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## Paimei (Aug 20, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> Your the one who started the friction by making accusations in the first place, read your post. Second, I live in California, not in your state so you have no clue how things are done here. I would not even act like an expert and be negative unless I am one. Are you an insurance broker, auto loan expert? Give it a rest, do you drive for Uber? Who are you, what is your purpose here? I did not lie to anyone, got my car before I started driving by the way. My insurance did not inquire about my ride share activities and did list as I mentioned that I have no coverage while I am transporting goods or people. No issue during period 1 or 2 when I am alone in the car. Do you know what period 1 and 2 is without googling or reading other posts here? I don't think you drive for ride share. Just posing or being an imposter to mix it up here. The drivers are here to help each other. I had an insurance adjuster look at my policy, he said I am covered by myself in the car so I am good. Not asking for approval from an out of state mystery member here. You probably work for an insurance company who is drumming up business by slinging negative info. My risk is less now for my carrier now that Uber is liable for period 2 and 3 driving which is half my monthly mileage. Other insurance companies do send out noticed informing no coverage at all if you use your car for commercial use. Mine does not so I am letting my brothers and sisters to check into using them. Are you a metro mile or farmers agent?


I am not a mystery member, just do not want to be hit, killed, or raped by an Uber driver. If you trust your insurance adjuster, so be it, I would double check with the actual company before making claims about coverage. As far as your auto, if you have a loan, I'm sure you can get away with it now, as they have no way of knowing what you are actually doing with your car. Just not a business model I would want to bet my life or livelihood on.


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## Paimei (Aug 20, 2015)

Real insurance policy: https://www.esurance.com/info/car/m...urance-policies-are-not-just-for-big-business


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

Thanks for the nice positive reply, still don't know why your here. California has more coverage than the rest of the ride share states with uber. Therefore, companies are not as restrictive on liability while driving uber with your car. Geico does not allow, sends out warnings. All companies vary and mine has no warning against ride share. Take it easy whatever your interests here are.


Paimei said:


> I am not a mystery member, just do not want to be hit, killed, or raped by an Uber driver. If you trust your insurance adjuster, so be it, I would double check with the actual company before making claims about coverage. As far as your auto, if you have a loan, I'm sure you can get away with it now, as they have no way of knowing what you are actually doing with your car. Just not a business model I would want to bet my life or livelihood on.


hanks


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

San Diego Steve said:


> California has more coverage than the rest of the ride share states with uber.


I believe Virginia has the highest coverage limits for TNCs.

*Insurance Requirements |Virginia TNC Law*


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

DrJeecheroo said:


> Well it seems like the best idea so far as been the metro-mile insurance that's currently active on the west coast. For part-time drivers that is.


Metromile doesn't cover "rideshare" in Oregon. In fact NOBODY will cover you in Oregon if you use your car for Uber/Lyft etc. The agent might say it does, but the fine print says it won't. Two wreaks involving Uber drivers says so. The drivers policy were cancelled. They tried to say they were't "working" but the video (some cabs in Portland, and all Radio Cab cars, record everything on camera). Video was shown to the insurance company. Result...cancelled policy.

Uber at your own financial risk. Theses two drivers are about to get their pants burned off in a lawsuit.

90% of all Uber drivers admit to withholding their "rideshare" business from their agent. That speaks volumes even Uber drivers know what they're doing could get them in trouble.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> Your the one who started the friction by making accusations in the first place, read your post. Second, I live in California, not in your state so you have no clue how things are done here. I would not even act like an expert and be negative unless I am one. Are you an insurance broker, auto loan expert? Give it a rest, do you drive for Uber? Who are you, what is your purpose here? I did not lie to anyone, got my car before I started driving by the way. My insurance did not inquire about my ride share activities and did list as I mentioned that I have no coverage while I am transporting goods or people. No issue during period 1 or 2 when I am alone in the car. Do you know what period 1 and 2 is without googling or reading other posts here? I don't think you drive for ride share. Just posing or being an imposter to mix it up here. The drivers are here to help each other. I had an insurance adjuster look at my policy, he said I am covered by myself in the car so I am good. Not asking for approval from an out of state mystery member here. You probably work for an insurance company who is drumming up business by slinging negative info. My risk is less now for my carrier now that Uber is liable for period 2 and 3 driving which is half my monthly mileage. Other insurance companies do send out noticed informing no coverage at all if you use your car for commercial use. Mine does not so I am letting my brothers and sisters to check into using them. Are you a metro mile or farmers agent?


How can you (Uber and Lyft drivers) be of "less risk" when we see Uber cars ( those stupid enough to leave their Uber/Lyft sticker in the window) hauling ass down I-84 (Portland) towards downtown for another trip?

There's a simple solution to this problem. Just require "rideshare" cars to carry the same policy Towncar and Cabs must have, since you're exposing others to the same risk with your commercial venture.


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## JDavis (Aug 11, 2015)

http://nwcommunityinsurance.com/ covers uber in Oregon my agent said. I haven't checked it out.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

JDavis said:


> http://nwcommunityinsurance.com/ covers uber in Oregon my agent said. I haven't checked it out.


I talked to them. They'll write you a policy. It will cost about $8000.00 a year. It's a regular commercial policy like any cab or Towncar would have.

Scott is the guy I talked to. Ph# is 503-975-1188.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> I talked to them. They'll write you a policy. It will cost about $8000.00 a year. It's a regular commercial policy like any cab or Towncar would have.
> 
> Scott is the guy I talked to. Ph# is 503-975-1188.





phillipzx3 said:


> I talked to them. They'll write you a policy. It will cost about $8000.00 a year. It's a regular commercial policy like any cab or Towncar would have.
> 
> Scott is the guy I talked to. Ph# is 503-975-1188.


You sound like a shill, you know nothing about our coverage. We do have the same coverage moron, we are covered by ride share commercial coverage during period 1 thru 3 in California! Can't vouch for Portland which is why I said we have more coverage in our state than most of the country. Go sell some insurance!!


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> You sound like a shill, you know nothing about our coverage. We do have the same coverage moron, we are covered by ride share commercial coverage during period 1 thru 3 in California! Can't vouch for Portland which is why I said we have more coverage in our state than most of the country. Go sell some insurance!!


I know plenty about Uber/Lyft coverage. I've spent about 20 to 30 hours with the local (Seattle/Portland) Uber rep . We've been trying to iron this mess out for a half a year.

Since I'm either a shill or a moron (make up your mind), I'll keep this simple so you can understand. It's a one word noun; Oregon!

I couldn't care less what you fools in California do. But when a bunch of part timers start buzzing the streets of Portland, AND start running into OUR cars (who turn out, have no coverage), it gets personal. But I suppose you'd be ok with an uninsured driver wrecking your car, right? Talk about a shill. My bet is you have "Uber" tattooed across your forehead.


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> I know plenty about Uber/Lyft coverage. I've spent about 20 to 30 hours with the local (Seattle/Portland) Uber rep . We've been trying to iron this mess out for a half a year.
> 
> Since I'm either a shill or a moron (make up your mind), I'll keep this simple so you can understand. It's a one word noun; Oregon!
> 
> I couldn't care less what you fools in California do. But when a bunch of part timers start buzzing the streets of Portland, AND start running into OUR cars (who turn out, have no coverage), it gets personal. But I suppose you'd be ok with an uninsured driver wrecking your car, right? Talk about a shill. My bet is you have "Uber" tattooed across your forehead.


I'm not criticizing you, you did that to me about my post regarding CA coverage.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> I'm not criticizing you, you did that to me about my post regarding CA coverage.


Just when and where did I criticize you? I've not called you any names...such as you called me.

Here's my only post in which I responded directly to you:



> "How can you (Uber and Lyft drivers) be of "less risk" when we see Uber cars ( those stupid enough to leave their Uber/Lyft sticker in the window) hauling ass down I-84 (Portland) towards downtown for another trip?
> 
> There's a simple solution to this problem. Just require "rideshare" cars to carry the same policy Towncar and Cabs must have, since you're exposing others to the same risk with your commercial venture.


Where did I criticize you?

Notice I'm not asking for Uber/Lyft to be kicked out of Portland. Only that since they're a livery service (can we stop with the "rideshare" charade?), they should be insured at the same level as the rest of us..which is $1,000,000 24/7. If Uber drivers want to work in Portland, why can't they "man up" and pay like we do. 600 bucks a year for a city plate. 100 bucks a year for a city permit. $2.50 a pop to pick up at the airport. and commercial insurance. To me it seem Uber drivers want everything handed to them while the rest of us get nailed with fees.

BTW...there was a sting conducted today and yesterday in Portland. I wonder how many Uber/Lyft cars were impounded for lack of proper coverage?


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## San Diego Steve (Jun 20, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> Just when and where did I criticize you? I've not called you any names...such as you called me.
> 
> Here's my only post in which I responded directly to you:
> 
> ...


Your reply to my post was criticizing my info that we are covered in CA. By the way, we do have 1 million liability in all periods of driving. Your a taxi driver, no wonder your pissed off. They are all coming to work for uber in SD. Best of luck!


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

San Diego Steve said:


> Your reply to my post was criticizing my info that we are covered in CA. By the way, we do have 1 million liability in all periods of driving. Your a taxi driver, no wonder your pissed off. They are all coming to work for uber in SD. Best of luck!


Learn to read. What I responded to had nothing to do with California coverage.

I'm pissed because of idiot Uber/Lyft drivers not being honest with their agent. Then, when they have a wreck, try to weasel out of the fact they are providing livery service. Is that hard for you to grasp, or are you just trying to toss out juvenile insults?


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