# Who has a PERSONAL auto insurance policy that covers them during rideshare activities?



## JeffB

deleted for privacy


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## scrurbscrud

Contact local commercial insurance brokers and find out what's available. It doesn't do any good to direct anyone to a specific carrier because every state is different and companies have different rules from state to state.

IF you want to find an acceptable policy, you will find one.

You are right that it is a dirty little secret with ride share companies. They don't care if your ass is left hanging in the wind or that you are technically driving in violation of the terms of your personal auto policy directives.


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## scrurbscrud

JeffB said:


> That's exactly what I am trying to do. I've called over 15 companies (so far) and none of them have a personal policy that does not specifically prohibit driving on rideshare. I understand that even within each carrier there are state-to-state distinctions. My own carrier (Geico) offers a hybrid policy but only in Virginia. Not much good for me here in Texas.
> 
> I'm just looking for a hero on this board who will say "call XXXX company." What is wrong with that?


I could tell you the name of my carrier, but I'm trying very hard to stay anonymous online. The amount of 'low end' ride share drivers who actually have their asses covered by proper insurance is exceptionally small.

If you are calling personal auto policy companies you are wasting your time. You have to specifically contact COMMERCIAL AUTO INSURANCE BROKERS. Any of the personal auto policy agents should be able to provide you with numerous contacts to commercial insurance brokers. That's how I made my contacts and eventually got the policy I wanted.

In short, do your own homework.


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## gman

JeffB said:


> Wow, there have been 26 views on this thread and no one has replied. Is literally EVERYONE driving with a personal policy that specifically forbids them from driving rideshare? Does everyone really have their heads in the sand on this?
> 
> Why isn't this the most pressing topic in on this forum? Why are driver ratings and where to go peepee more important than this one? Don't you know that if you are in an accident your auto insurance company is not only going to deny your claim, they are also going to blackball you in the auto insurance industry by reporting you to the national database as someone who has violated the terms of his/her policy? Good luck ever getting reasonably priced insurance again.
> 
> Is there no one on this forum who has found a policy that allows us to rideshare? Be a hero and tell us what company will insure us properly. You will certainly be mine if you do.


It used to be the most pressing topic until all the rate cuts, lol.


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## scrurbscrud

JeffB said:


> You have posted 2590 messages and you want to be anonymous? You found the information that almost all UberX/Lyft drivers desperately need and you want to keep it to yourself?


Yep. If you really want your ass covered an independent contractor should be able to figure it out for themselves. Nobody dished the information out to me. It took me several days and many tries and many quotes to get what I wanted. You are due for the same experience if you want to be covered. Earn it.



> Thanks for re-directing me to the commercial carriers. I had dismissed that idea because I suspected that the cost would be prohibitive. When I was still driving I only did so on weekends and holidays. *I am not prepared to double or triple my current auto insurance premiums.* But anyway, I will give them a call to see what it costs. I still don't understand why you are so secretive, though. Be a hero!


*
That is what you will encounter.* And that's part of the reason it's pointless to dish out information because you won't give a shit anyway. You'll just take your chances til your luck runs out just like all the other fools.


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## Tx rides

JeffB said:


> You have posted 2590 messages and you want to be anonymous? You found the information that almost all UberX/Lyft drivers desperately need and you want to keep it to yourself? Thanks for re-directing me to the commercial carriers. I had dismissed that idea because I suspected that the cost would be prohibitive. When I was still driving I only did so on weekends and holidays. I am not prepared to double or triple my current auto insurance premiums. But anyway, I will give them a call to see what it costs. I still don't understand why you are so secretive, though. Be a hero!


There is no commercial coverage on personal policies in TX. By law, I might add. Furthermore, any hybrid you eventually find is probably void during trip, so you are still screwed if in an accident during trip. Uber has always known this. Cab and black car operators have always known this. This fact has been raised repeatedly in every major city, countless town halls, elections, news stories, etc. Drivers are mostly ignoring the risks. Absolutely foolish, unless you have a nice nest egg and just do this for fun.


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## Tim In Cleveland

From the time you are pinged until the customer gets out of the car, you are covered under Uber. Driving around looking for work IS NOT RIDESHARING. It's commuting and no different than driving to fill out job applications or go to job interviews. It's covered under your personal policy. If you have an accident waiting for a ping, you should not report "I was driving for Uber". That's not true. You were job hunting. If they deny the claim, it's lawsuit time.
The best quote I got on commercial insurance was from Progressive who quoted me, I think, $3700 a year. Still too much. There is no such thing as a policy providing commercial insurance between rides and that is what you need. They likely will never come out with one, because between rides is looking for work and already covered under personal policies.


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## scrurbscrud

JeffB said:


> Dude... my Partner Statements have a big goose egg ($0.00) on them these days because I'm not like all the other fools. I'm not driving again until I'm properly insured. Do I really seem like someone who doesn't give a shit? *What about my communications on this forum would make you think that?*


*The instant you said you weren't interested in paying for legit coverage.*

Yeah, it sucks having that bill but it would suck even more to go down the financial shitter doing UberX by riding bareback from lack of proper insurance. For the record for UberX rates I could no longer justify having the insurance I do nor would I nor would I even consider putting my ass in a liability sling for their shit for pay.

**** Uber, their rates and their leaving drivers hanging in the wind. They don't give a ratz ass about you or I, and the feeling is mutual, I assure you.


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## scrurbscrud

Tim In Cleveland said:


> From the time you are pinged until the customer gets out of the car, you are covered under Uber. Driving around looking for work IS NOT RIDESHARING.


This topic has been covered at length. There are more holes in Uber's fine print exploitation than can even be reasoned with here with most of you. Uber's coverage for example is specifically predicated on YOU having a valid underlying policy. How valid is that underlying policy if it's technically VOIDED by doing driving for hire?

Now you have to ask yourself, am I smarter than a 5th grader?

And that is just one small example of a gapping HOLE that Uber could dump you in at their whim, and trust me, you will be dumped if the legal engagements in an accident are for big $ and you can be tossed into oblivion. Uber will NOT have your back if you are uncovered. They are not going to be that kind when it comes to money and your inability to assess insurance reality as an independent contractor.


> It's commuting and no different than driving to fill out job applications or go to job interviews. It's covered under your personal policy. If you have an accident waiting for a ping, you should not report "I was driving for Uber". That's not true. You were job hunting. If they deny the claim, it's lawsuit time.
> The best quote I got on commercial insurance was from Progressive who quoted me, I think, $3700 a year. Still too much. There is no such thing as a policy providing commercial insurance between rides and that is what you need. They likely will never come out with one, because between rides is looking for work and already covered under personal policies.


Living an insurance fantasy.


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## scrurbscrud

JeffB said:


> What are you talking about? I never said I wasn't interested in paying for legitimate coverage! That's exactly what I'm trying to do!


Your quote:

*"I am not prepared to double or triple my current auto insurance premiums."*


> For the record; does that mean that you are no longer driving UberX and now drive for Black or SUV? That would explain why you have commercial insurance; it's required for those categories.


I drive XL and Plus, meaning I'm also in both systems to do the std. fares. I do UberX about once or twice a week when it surges to 2X to keep my account active OR if I find a spot to fish out an XL ping and not get an X ping.

But NO, I will not drive for UberX std rate. No way in hell. They can kiss my ass.



> I am trying to find a cost-effective way to drive for UberX. I am not a professional driver. I want a moonlighting experience, but I want to do it RIGHT. Commercial insurance at 2-3 times what I am paying for personal coverage won't do it.


You're right. Most commercial policies are not going to cover part timers because their risk is higher. Which is why all of you drivers will continue to roll the dice til you hit snake eyes and your lives will be derailed over insurance problems for driving UberX for shitty pay and think it's great until that day arrives.



> This non-professional rideshare insurance issue is becoming so big that eventually some insurance company is going to come to the rescue of the UberX/Lyft drivers. They have to; it's becoming too big a business opportunity for them for it not to. The business world abhors a vacuum, and some company will fill it. I''m just trying to find out if someone already has. And believe me, when I find it I am not going to be so proprietary with that information. I thought this was a forum TO HELP EACH OTHER, not to ensure that everyone goes through the same trials and tribulations I have. I won't simply tell everyone to "earn it" as you have.


Farmers ride share policy is about double what their standard personal auto policy rate is. There will be no free lunches for Uber drivers on insurance. You'll all land in insurance hell at some point, unless yer feelin lucky, punk...

Well are ya?


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## Andy1234

JeffB said:


> What are you talking about? I never said I wasn't interested in paying for legitimate coverage! That's exactly what I'm trying to do!
> 
> For the record; does that mean that you are no longer driving UberX and now drive for Black or SUV? That would explain why you have commercial insurance; it's required for those categories.
> 
> I am trying to find a cost-effective way to drive for UberX. I am not a professional driver. I want a moonlighting experience, but I want to do it RIGHT. Commercial insurance at 2-3 times what I am paying for personal coverage won't do it. This non-professional rideshare insurance issue is becoming so big that eventually some insurance company is going to come to the rescue of the UberX/Lyft drivers. They have to; it's becoming too big a business opportunity for them for it not to. The business world abhors a vacuum, and some company will fill it. I''m just trying to find out if someone already has. And believe me, when I find it I am not going to be so proprietary with that information. I thought this was a forum TO HELP EACH OTHER, not to ensure that everyone goes through the same trials and tribulations I have. I won't simply tell everyone to "earn it" as you have.


As far as I know the only Hybrid personal/rideshare policies in existence today are Geico (Virginia Only) and USAA (Colorado Only... also military service requirements for membership). I'm in VA so I have the Geico version. I drove a Geico employee the other night on a nice long surge fare and she said that they are using VA as a test market and if no significant issues come up it will likely be expanded to other states.


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## scrurbscrud

Andy1234 said:


> As far as I know the only Hybrid personal/rideshare policies in existence today are Geico (Virginia Only) and USAA (Colorado Only... also military service requirements for membership). I'm in VA so I have the Geico version. I drove a Geico employee the other night on a nice long surge fare and she said that they are using VA as a test market and if no significant issues come up it will likely be expanded to other states.


There are numerous commercial livery policies available for any full time driver or any part timer who has sense enough to tell the insurance companies they are full timers. Heck they are already lying to their insurance companies anyway, so might as well just do a stretch as a part timer and claim that 40 hours a weekend they are driving is full time...


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## Andy1234

JeffB said:


> Thanks for the spirit of cooperation that I thought was the purpose of this forum. I'm glad that not everyone is hoarding all the experience and information they have as strictly proprietary.
> 
> I called USAA a few days ago about their policy (I am a veteran) and they said what you did... it is in CO only. Another poster on this board made the comment that she thinks the USAA policy will be expanded to Texas in May but the USAA agent I talked to didn't know anything about that. I already knew about Geico's Virginia policy because that is my current company and I had that conversation with them when they sent me "the letter." I used to live in Virginia until 2009 so it was a bit ironic to hear that something I need now is available where I used to live.
> 
> I still think that some insurance company is going to move on this very soon. We (UberX/Lyft drivers) are simply too large a group to ignore. It is a business opportunity, simple as that. Heck, they can even overprice it somewhat to be safe, but if it provides what we need... we will pay. I know I will. I'm sure that what is slowing the process is that the state insurance commissions all work independently and getting any new product past them is difficult, or even a change to a current product.


The other impediment to new insurance products is that most insurance policies regardless of type depend on Actuaries to assess historical data to determine the correct pricing and coverage options. With rideshare business being new and the amount of reliable data scarce it will take a while for them to offer the products. I think that is the reason there are only a few well established companies offering hybrid policies in select markets. To USAA and Geico if they get it wrong on with a small number of customers it will not be very impactful to the bottom line.


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## Andy1234

JeffB said:


> Absolutely. In the absence of reliable data now it would be fine with me if they overpriced it some in the beginning to protect them because they would be required to adjust premiums when reliable, historical data is gathered in the future. Contrary to public opinion, profits ARE regulated in insurance companies.


Well to be honest the available hybrid policies are over priced. I was paying about 90/month and now I'm paying 120. My guess is that the market will get flooded with these types of policies once all of the major markets release plans for permanent legislation allowing rideshare business.


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## Andy1234

JeffB said:


> Actually, a 33% increase to add that coverage doesn't seem that bad to me. I'm guessing that you are driving greater than 33% more miles now compared to pre-rideshare miles, and during more high-risk hours like bar closing time Saturday nights. I'm paying about $73 a month for my full coverage with Geico. I have a spotless driving record for more than 2 decades. No tickets or accidents. Not even a parking ticket. I would be thrilled if I could add that coverage for only 33% more (still under $100 a month). That would allow me to resume being a part time driver. Until that time I'm going to remain a customer only.


Yeah I'm not complaining. Its worth the piece of mind.


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## Simon

Liberty mutual in my state writes for Uber drivers... but they will not cover you if you were Ubering at the time of the accident. They won't cancel you but.. your on your own if you wreck. BTW Uber insurance covers everything except the driver and the car... so if you hit something you the driver is on the hook for the costs Of your health and vehicle damage. 

Good luck this is gonna get worse before it gets better.


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## rogerscl

Check out Travelers Auto Insurance. Personal Insurance, covers Lyft, Uber, Sidecar etc and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, at least not for me.


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## UberTaxPro

Tim In Cleveland said:


> From the time you are pinged until the customer gets out of the car, you are covered under Uber. Driving around looking for work IS NOT RIDESHARING. It's commuting and no different than driving to fill out job applications or go to job interviews. It's covered under your personal policy. If you have an accident waiting for a ping, you should not report "I was driving for Uber". That's not true. You were job hunting. If they deny the claim, it's lawsuit time.
> The best quote I got on commercial insurance was from Progressive who quoted me, I think, $3700 a year. Still too much. There is no such thing as a policy providing commercial insurance between rides and that is what you need. They likely will never come out with one, because between rides is looking for work and already covered under personal policies.


if you do have an accident with a pax in your car uber's insurance is going to try and get your company to pay first. Now your insurance company knows your ubering and will cancel you and you'll be paying more for your next policy. Just don't have an accident with a pax in the car and there won't be any problem.


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## Tx rides

Tim In Cleveland said:


> From the time you are pinged until the customer gets out of the car, you are covered under Uber. Driving around looking for work IS NOT RIDESHARING. It's commuting and no different than driving to fill out job applications or go to job interviews. It's covered under your personal policy. If you have an accident waiting for a ping, you should not report "I was driving for Uber". That's not true. You were job hunting. If they deny the claim, it's lawsuit time.
> The best quote I got on commercial insurance was from Progressive who quoted me, I think, $3700 a year. Still too much. There is no such thing as a policy providing commercial insurance between rides and that is what you need. They likely will never come out with one, because between rides is looking for work and already covered under personal policies.


False, anyone staging around town, trolling for hot spots, they are in commercial mode. This has been hashed over for at least two years.


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## Tx rides

Andy1234 said:


> The other impediment to new insurance products is that most insurance policies regardless of type depend on Actuaries to assess historical data to determine the correct pricing and coverage options. With rideshare business being new and the amount of reliable data scarce it will take a while for them to offer the products. I think that is the reason there are only a few well established companies offering hybrid policies in select markets. To USAA and Geico if they get it wrong on with a small number of customers it will not be very impactful to the bottom line.


Another impediment is a legal limitation in many states preventing personal from providing commercial coverage.


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## observer

Andy1234 said:


> Well to be honest the available hybrid policies are over priced. I was paying about 90/month and now I'm paying 120. My guess is that the market will get flooded with these types of policies once all of the major markets release plans for permanent legislation allowing rideshare business.


A few questions for you.

Did they ask you how many miles you drive?

Are you covered for your medical bills in an accident at all times?

Is your vehicle covered in an accident at all times?


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## Andy1234

observer said:


> A few questions for you.
> 
> Did they ask you how many miles you drive?
> 
> Are you covered for your medical bills in an accident at all times?
> 
> Is your vehicle covered in an accident at all times?


Yes they did ask how many miles I plan to drive and my response was 30k.

With this policy you are covered at all times regardless of whether the app is on or off trip or not.

I did opt for the medical bill coverage, but you can get it without it.


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## observer

Andy1234 said:


> Yes they did ask how many miles I plan to drive and my response was 30k.
> 
> With this policy you are covered at all times regardless of whether the app is on or off trip or not.
> 
> I did opt for the medical bill coverage, but you can get it without it.


Thnx.


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## scrurbscrud

Andy1234 said:


> Yes they did ask how many miles I plan to drive and my response was 30k.
> 
> With this policy you are covered at all times regardless of whether the app is on or off trip or not.
> 
> I did opt for the medical bill coverage, but you can get it without it.


If you got that kind of coverage from Travelers that's awesome. Will definitely be making that call myself.


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## rogerscl

I believe Andy1234 is talking about Geico which is only available in VA right now. Travelers cost me about the same as what he got and they do cover you app on or app off. One thing that I'm unsure of is when I have a ping, they said Uber's insurance will kick in. What does that mean when it comes to the car and my coverage during ping, am I covered or do I have to pay the $1000 deductible to Uber...I forgot to ask about that. I'm still waiting for my contract in the mail so I have something in black and white but definitely give them a call and ask them to explain everything to you. And if something doesn't seem right, maybe you can help enlighten us as well.


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## scrurbscrud

rogerscl said:


> I believe he's talking about Geico which is only available in VA right now. Travelers cost me about the same as what he got and they do cover you app on or app off. One thing that I'm unsure of is when I have a ping, they said Uber's insurance will kick in. What does that mean when it comes to the car and my coverage during ping, am I covered or do I have to pay the $1000 deductible to Uber...I forgot to ask about that. I'm still waiting for my contract in the mail so I have something in black and white but definitely give them a call and ask them to explain everything to you. And if something doesn't seem right, maybe you can help enlighten us as well.


From my contact about Farmers Insurance they still leave drivers in the hands of Uber/Lyft insurance with app on traveling to pax and after starting a trip. I am not willing to leave my auto and myself in the hands of Uber/Lyft coverage as I doubt it's sufficiency for my personal needs.

The policy I ended up with is in first place all the time. If I have an accident I'll let them and Uber/Lyft sort out the pieces. I just don't want to have to deal with Uber or Lyft's insurance. Peace of mind is more valuable.


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## rogerscl

scrurbscrud said:


> From my contact about Farmers Insurance they still leave drivers in the hands of Uber/Lyft insurance with app on traveling to pax and after starting a trip. I am not willing to leave my auto and myself in the hands of Uber/Lyft coverage as I doubt it's sufficiency for my personal needs.
> 
> The policy I ended up with is in first place all the time. If I have an accident I'll let them and Uber/Lyft sort out the pieces. I just don't want to have to deal with Uber or Lyft's insurance. Peace of mind is more valuable.


Which is definitely understandable and I totally agree with you. I searched around for insurance available in MD, called so many for both personal and commercial to no avail. I was actually hoping that GEICO's was already rolled out in Maryland since I was already with them but that wasn't the case. Found a post somewhere (can't remember where though) talking about Travelers updated policy with regards to ridesharing. Called them and rep said they just rolled it out sometime in February. I'm actually surprised that they weren't marketing it as much considering the fact that it has been such a hot commodity for quite sometime now.

Will definitely update once I confirm the policy with PAX on. And would appreciate the help if anybody else can call and scrutinize their policy. And if it turns out to be a great policy, I would definitely be happy to inform as many drivers as possible so we can all get over this coverage gap hump.


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## Roogy

JeffB said:


> I recently received "the letter" from Geico that said they suspect I am driving for a rideshare company and that I am in violation of my policy. I had to prove to them that I have ceased those activities and now they tell me that I won't be cancelled.


Jeff, how did you prove to them that you had ceased driving? I had same issue and send them the deactivation text that I got, but it wasn't enough. They want something more official. I emailed Uber and asked them to reply with confirmation that I am deactivated. As a former driver, not sure Uber will give enough of a shit to bother replying.

btw the only person in this forum I have blocked is scrubscrub. Unless you were talking to yourself early in this thread I'm guessing he was the one who was replying. He is totally useless.


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## scrurbscrud

Roogy said:


> Jeff, how did you prove to them that you had ceased driving? I had same issue and send them the deactivation text that I got, but it wasn't enough. They want something more official. I emailed Uber and asked them to reply with confirmation that I am deactivated. As a former driver, not sure Uber will give enough of a shit to bother replying.
> 
> btw the only person in this forum I have blocked is scrubscrub. Unless you were talking to yourself early in this thread I'm guessing he was the one who was replying. He is totally useless.


Drivers take offense when pointed to the obvious insurance issues that drivers face.

*Denial is more suitable for the yob.*


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## rogerscl

Roogy said:


> btw the only person in this forum I have blocked is scrubscrub. Unless you were talking to yourself early in this thread I'm guessing he was the one who was replying. He is totally useless.


LOL, no I'm not talking to myself. S/he's been responding sensibly to my posts so far but thanks for you input


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## scrurbscrud

rogerscl said:


> LOL, no I'm not talking to myself. S/he's been responding sensibly to my posts so far but thanks for you input


Her insurance company caught her and she was also deactivated by Uber for a low driver rating.

go figure.


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## rogerscl

Okay...so, let's try not to veer off topic, sorry OP 

I do believe that this insurance gap is a big deal and would love to keep this topic alive to help all the drivers out there to minimize cost of insurance and cost of liability should the unexpected arise. Thanks OP for starting this thread and I hope more people will chime in.


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## scrurbscrud

rogerscl said:


> Okay...so, let's try not to veer off topic, sorry OP
> 
> I do believe that this insurance gap is a big deal and would love to keep this topic alive to help all the drivers out there to minimize cost of insurance and cost of liability should the unexpected arise. Thanks OP for starting this thread and I hope more people will chime in.


The biggest single issue with proper insurance is driver ignorance and/or outright denial.

Most just don't give a crap if they have proper coverage or not. And if they actually have to pay to have real coverage, they instantly see that with typical standard rates for driving ride share, they're screwed anyway because they can't afford to be covered.

Speaks to the general mentality of the job category, well deserved. And the ride share companies as well who continue to cover up this dirty little secret, *letting the drivers, in effect, hang themselves out to dry.*

Apathy or pathetic. Take your pick.

*Any ride share driver in the U.S. who really wants a full blown commercial livery insurance policy for legal adequate protection can obtain coverage.*

Does Uber care? Uh, no. Recently someone posted Uber's emailed position for Colorado legislation which supposedly mandates drivers to inform their personal auto policies they are doing ride share. Here was Uber's response to drivers for this supposed suitable ground breaking legislation:

*"If you decide not to obtain an endorsement*, Uber, through Rasier LLC, maintains a policy that covers your operation of a motor vehicle while logged into the Uber Partner app and waiting for a trip request. This * policy ensures compliance with Senate Bill 14-125, so you can keep driving without having to worry."*

*Complete bullshit lies! Their posture amounts to nothing more than this:*

*LIE TO YOUR PERSONAL AUTO INSURANCE COMPANY SO THEY WON'T CANCEL YOU.*


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## Roogy

Since Geico was being a dick and making me jump through hoops I switched today to Ameriprise/Costco Insurance. I don't know what their stance on rideshare is but it doesn't matter to me because I'm no longer doing rideshare. My sixth month premium is $80 more now, but I'm thinking if Geico is that much of a pain in the ass about renewing my insurance then maybe they'd be that way too if I ever had to file a claim.


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## rogerscl

scrurbscrud said:


> ...Too long to actually quote


That bill was a long read so I just scanned it. I didn't find the part where the legislation is "mandating" drivers to "inform" their insurance company that they are doing ride share. However, I do believe that not informing them constitute fraud and breach of contract. And TNC companies encourage the practice...tsk tsk. In the end, the drivers suffer. Not like they mediate between you and your insurance company when you get dropped.

I definitely do not agree with all these TNC insurance coverage mysteries. We need transparency and should definitely really know and understand what's covered, what's not, who's covering it, and who's not, and when are you covered...but I guess that's asking for too much.

As much as I disagree with TNCs practices with regards to this, insurance in general is very tricky to digest and fully understand with all these legalese and inclusions and exclusions etc (and I'm pretty sure that's what TNCs are banking on, and that's what insurance companies have been banking on all these years). Add new legislations and revisions that are injected with more legal mumbo jumbos...only a handful will take the time to actually read and even fewer would understand those. Besides, most (sometimes including me), finds it easier to trust youtube and forums for information however lacking or sometimes just flat out wrong, they may be, because they're in plain english and definitely would not require a law degree to understand.

I wish there's an easy way to go about this, but there's none. And what's worse is, sometimes you think you fully understand your coverage, only to find out that you're not going to be covered because of some exclusion that you fail to understand.

Anyway, I have not really searched for this, but do you happen to have a link to Uber's primary commercial insurance coverage and the personal liability contingent coverage? I know I should stop being lazy, but I am right now, LOL.


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## rogerscl

Roogy said:


> Since Geico was being a dick and making me jump through hoops I switched today to Ameriprise/Costco Insurance. I don't know what their stance on rideshare is but it doesn't matter to me because I'm no longer doing rideshare. My sixth month premium is $80 more now, but I'm thinking if Geico is that much of a pain in the ass about renewing my insurance then maybe they'd be that way too if I ever had to file a claim.


That sucks  I'm not really sure what GEICOs looking for. I do however heard from some people that they had to send notarized letters informing them thatthey will not be participating in such activities again. I'm pretty sure they want something in writing that they can use in court just in case.


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## scrurbscrud

rogerscl said:


> That bill was a long read so I just scanned it. I didn't find the part where the legislation is "mandating" drivers to "inform" their insurance company that they are doing ride share. However, I do believe that not informing them constitute fraud and breach of contract. And TNC companies encourage the practice...tsk tsk. In the end, the drivers suffer. Not like they mediate between you and your insurance company when you get dropped.
> 
> I definitely do not agree with all these TNC insurance coverage mysteries. We need transparency and should definitely really know and understand what's covered, what's not, who's covering it, and who's not, and when are you covered...but I guess that's asking for too much.
> 
> As much as I disagree with TNCs practices with regards to this, insurance in general is very tricky to digest and fully understand with all these legalese and inclusions and exclusions etc (and I'm pretty sure that's what TNCs are banking on, and that's what insurance companies have been banking on all these years). Add new legislations and revisions that are injected with more legal mumbo jumbos...only a handful will take the time to actually read and even fewer would understand those. Besides, most (sometimes including me), finds it easier to trust youtube and forums for information however lacking or sometimes just flat out wrong, they may be, because they're in plain english and definitely would not require a law degree to understand.
> 
> I wish there's an easy way to go about this, but there's none. And what's worse is, sometimes you think you fully understand your coverage, only to find out that you're not going to be covered because of some exclusion that you fail to understand.
> 
> Anyway, I have not really searched for this, but do you happen to have a link to Uber's primary commercial insurance coverage and the personal liability contingent coverage? I know I should stop being lazy, but I am right now, LOL.


Seriously the James River policy from Uber is so ambiguous as it pertains to the drivers coverage it's not even worth reading.

Decent article here with some links to their insurance policy. I also think Uber puts up the policy somewhere online. I've read it before:

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2014/03/25/draft-uber-insurance-policy/

Here is a typical statement from Uber on these matters:

"Personal auto insurance is a contract between the driver and their insurer. *Most personal auto insurance policies contain an exclusion for transporting passengers for hire, that's why we have the commercial policy in place.* We tell drivers to report all accidents to their personal insurance provider, and we report it to our insurance at the same time. *We expect drivers to be truthful with all parties involved."*

The BIG LIE they employ there is that they know full well the first bold statement is TRUE. What they DON'T SAY is that such polices are VOIDED. AND their 'supposed' coverage for drivers accident costs are predicated on the driver having a VALID underlying personal policy. ****ing snake oil bullshit. They can screw a driver anytime they please based on that single requirement because NO PERSONAL AUTO POLICY OF A RIDE SHARE DRIVER IS VALID WHEN THEY DO RIDE SHARE. *Such policies are technically invalidated just by doing ride share.*

Best just to assume you'll get screwed and take care of yourself.

Lesson most of us learn in short order:

*DO NOT TRUST UBER.*

Drivers who are too lazy to do their homework all deserve what they get. No sympathy required for ignorance or willing disregard to be responsible for yourSELF to provide suitable insurance for this gig.


----------



## rogerscl

scrurbscrud said:


> Seriously the James River policy from Uber is so ambiguous as it pertains to the drivers coverage it's not even worth reading.
> 
> Decent article here with some links to their insurance policy. I also think Uber puts up the policy somewhere online. I've read it before:
> 
> // Link deleted, can't post response -- rogerscl
> 
> Here is a typical statement from Uber on these matters:
> 
> "Personal auto insurance is a contract between the driver and their insurer. *Most personal auto insurance policies contain an exclusion for transporting passengers for hire, that's why we have the commercial policy in place.* We tell drivers to report all accidents to their personal insurance provider, and we report it to our insurance at the same time. *We expect drivers to be truthful with all parties involved."*
> 
> The BIG LIE they employ there is that they know full well the first bold statement is TRUE. What they DON'T SAY is that such polices are VOIDED. AND their 'supposed' coverage for drivers accident costs are predicated on the driver having a VALID underlying personal policy. ****ing snake oil bullshit. They can screw a driver anytime they please based on that single requirement because NO PERSONAL AUTO POLICY OF A RIDE SHARE DRIVER IS VALID WHEN THEY DO RIDE SHARE. *Such policies are technically invalidated just by doing ride share.*
> 
> Best just to assume you'll get screwed and take care of yourself.
> 
> Lesson most of us learn in short order:
> 
> *DO NOT TRUST UBER.*
> 
> Drivers who are too lazy to do their homework all deserve what they get. No sympathy required for ignorance or willing disregard to be responsible for yourSELF to provide suitable insurance for this gig.


That actually applies to any entity that you're signing a contract with...if you need to sign something, then make sure you understand what you're signing. Easier said than done. I especially hate car dealerships when it comes to this, they make you wait for a long time (so you'll be eager to get done), then come contract signing time they rush you. But I digress.

Either way, knowledge is power. The more you know, the more you can protect yourself.

These hybrid insurances better roll out sooner and hopefully it's for the drivers...yeah, riight.

Oh, thanks for the link btw.


----------



## Tx rides

rogerscl said:


> That bill was a long read so I just scanned it. I didn't find the part where the legislation is "mandating" drivers to "inform" their insurance company that they are doing ride share. However, I do believe that not informing them constitute fraud and breach of contract. And TNC companies encourage the practice...tsk tsk. In the end, the drivers suffer. Not like they mediate between you and your insurance company when you get dropped.
> 
> I definitely do not agree with all these TNC insurance coverage mysteries. We need transparency and should definitely really know and understand what's covered, what's not, who's covering it, and who's not, and when are you covered...but I guess that's asking for too much.
> 
> As much as I disagree with TNCs practices with regards to this, insurance in general is very tricky to digest and fully understand with all these legalese and inclusions and exclusions etc (and I'm pretty sure that's what TNCs are banking on, and that's what insurance companies have been banking on all these years). Add new legislations and revisions that are injected with more legal mumbo jumbos...only a handful will take the time to actually read and even fewer would understand those. Besides, most (sometimes including me), finds it easier to trust youtube and forums for information however lacking or sometimes just flat out wrong, they may be, because they're in plain english and definitely would not require a law degree to understand.
> 
> I wish there's an easy way to go about this, but there's none. And what's worse is, sometimes you think you fully understand your coverage, only to find out that you're not going to be covered because of some exclusion that you fail to understand.
> 
> Anyway, I have not really searched for this, but do you happen to have a link to Uber's primary commercial insurance coverage and the personal liability contingent coverage? I know I should stop being lazy, but I am right now, LOL.


By far the most accurate description of risks I've read on this forum

https://uberpeople.net/threads/restart-uber-responds-to-desert-drivers-succinct-questions.10451/


----------



## Casandria

I read through and didn't see anything on this so sorry if it's already been asked and answered, but how did your insurance companies find out you were driving for Uber in the first place? If you didn't tell them, how did it come to their attention?


----------



## Tx rides

rogerscl said:


> That actually applies to any entity that you're signing a contract with...if you need to sign something, then make sure you understand what you're signing. Easier said than done. I especially hate car dealerships when it comes to this, they make you wait for a long time (so you'll be eager to get done), then come contract signing time they rush you. But I digress.
> 
> Either way, knowledge is power. The more you know, the more you can protect yourself.
> 
> These hybrid insurances better roll out sooner and hopefully it's for the drivers...yeah, riight.
> 
> Oh, thanks for the link btw.





rogerscl said:


> That bill was a long read so I just scanned it. I didn't find the part where the legislation is "mandating" drivers to "inform" their insurance company that they are doing ride share. However, I do believe that not informing them constitute fraud and breach of contract. And TNC companies encourage the practice...tsk tsk. In the end, the drivers suffer. Not like they mediate between you and your insurance company when you get dropped.
> 
> I definitely do not agree with all these TNC insurance coverage mysteries. We need transparency and should definitely really know and understand what's covered, what's not, who's covering it, and who's not, and when are you covered...but I guess that's asking for too much.
> 
> As much as I disagree with TNCs practices with regards to this, insurance in general is very tricky to digest and fully understand with all these legalese and inclusions and exclusions etc (and I'm pretty sure that's what TNCs are banking on, and that's what insurance companies have been banking on all these years). Add new legislations and revisions that are injected with more legal mumbo jumbos...only a handful will take the time to actually read and even fewer would understand those. Besides, most (sometimes including me), finds it easier to trust youtube and forums for information however lacking or sometimes just flat out wrong, they may be, because they're in plain english and definitely would not require a law degree to understand.
> 
> I wish there's an easy way to go about this, but there's none. And what's worse is, sometimes you think you fully understand your coverage, only to find out that you're not going to be covered because of some exclusion that you fail to understand.
> 
> Anyway, I have not really searched for this, but do you happen to have a link to Uber's primary commercial insurance coverage and the personal liability contingent coverage? I know I should stop being lazy, but I am right now, LOL.


Another good risk summary

http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2015/02/09/uh-ohuber-has-some-coverage-issues

As for full docs , here is one, It may be the one @scrurbscrud shared, but keep in mind, they don't always share the latest ( another reason so many municipalities don't trust them!)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/214351992


----------



## scrurbscrud

One of Ubers driver requirements is that they have and maintain a VALID personal auto insurance policy. 

My personal auto insurance company said my policy was automatically INVALIDATED by doing drive for hire. 

It's this kind of ambiguity that I don't care to take chances with with Uber. I don't trust their representations that they will pay out IF the driver has not upheld their agreement. Nor is that a reasonable driver expectation. 

Plan for the worst. Then hope for the best. Leave yourself exposed and expect to be exploited by everyone. Just the way it is.


----------



## rogerscl

Awesome, thanks Tx Rides for the links, read the thread but will set aside the other links for later. Pretty much works how I understood it. 

Well, everyone be safe out there. Hopefully one of these days we'll catch that elusive "affordable"insurance that looks after the drivers. I have a feeling that most of these hybrid insurance will not cover Period 2 and 3...but we'll see. I still gotta confirm how Travelers work but we might still be at the mercy of Uber come claim time tsk tsk. At least for consolation, I don't have to worry about hiding the fact that I'm driving for Uber and risk cancellation.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> By far the most accurate description of risks I've read on this forum
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/restart-uber-responds-to-desert-drivers-succinct-questions.10451/


The fact that drivers literally have to pry truthful disclosures out of Uber only after running the gauntlet of meaningless cut and pasted responses is proof enough to me that Uber is a lying sack of shit as a company. THAT INFORMATION that they provided DD should be front and center, signed and acknowledged by every potential driver before they even submit an application.

Despicable is too polite a term.


----------



## Killeen Ubur

JeffB said:


> I recently received "the letter" from Geico that said they suspect I am driving for a rideshare company and that I am in violation of my policy. I had to prove to them that I have ceased those activities and now they tell me that I won't be cancelled. If that had happened I would have gone into the national database as one who violated the terms of my policy and any future coverage would have been prohibitively expensive. This seems to be the dirty little secret in ridesharing. We are all violating our policies by driving for pay, and by doing so we are not covered... and worse.
> 
> Who has a hybrid policy or one with a rider that covers us in ridesharing activities? SHARE DETAILS PLEASE! Be a hero on the board.


USAA.....


----------



## observer

JeffB said:


> I don't know for sure but I suspect they became aware of the very high number of miles I had driven. Services like Carfax receive/record mileage information every time we go in for maintenance, and I suspect that Geico was able to access that information about my car.


They also get them from smog checks in California.


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## Killeen Ubur

JeffB said:


> Colorado only.


Only a matter of time all State's


----------



## Andy1234

My conversation with GEICO indicated that the rideshare insurance is primary while on trip as well. Uber insurance is excess to the policy. So the claim would have to exceed the limits on my policy before Uber insurance is involved.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Andy1234 said:


> My conversation with GEICO indicated that the rideshare insurance is primary while on trip as well. Uber insurance is excess to the policy. So the claim would have to exceed the limits on my policy before Uber insurance is involved.


Make sure to read the fine print or get such statements from them in writing in response to specific insurance questions. (the best option to clear up ambiguity, even if they point back to specific policy fine print)


----------



## Andy1234

JeffB said:


> Andy, you are in the one state where Geico currently offers a hybrid policy for UberX drivers. Please don't cloud the waters for the other 49 states in this discussion. You're not helping.


I clearly was talking about VA regarding GEICO. Read my original post in this thread... which I think you replied to... so I don't know why you would think I'm referring to all GEICO policies???


----------



## Chris Dee

No one forces you to work for Uber, if you have an issue with your private carrier then switch to one that doesn't or provides such insurance. 
Lancer and Ascendant are popular among limo or cab companies. Florida works it this way and usually it works like this elsewhere;
-You must have an LLC
-The vehicle has to be registered by it
-You are the operator of the vehicle listed or others that could operate it.

My cost was $3900/year, the vehicle might also need to be registered as a "livery car" for your county/state. 
The vehicle might need to be inspected, (safety).

These are the issues that TLC companies are pissed about because they have to comply with them yet Uber refuses to. 
Take your chances but get into an accident and it's a toss up on what's going to happen.


----------



## Guest

You dont understand!

You run a business.

You carry insurance on your business.

Your business activity involves transportation.

You need business insurance.

Nobody is gonna issue UBER driver insurance and there is NO SUCH THING AS RIDESHARE INSURANCE.


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## Guest

Do you think taxi cab companirs carry Geico, State Farm, Farmers or Progressive or Allstate insurance? 

Those insurances are for individuals, private individuals.

Now what should be offered is Rider Insurance personal policies for riders because admittedly the UBER DRIVERS are not transportation companies, they are individuals picking up virtual hitch hikers and making a couple dollars doing it.

People that own transportation type businesses just have to tell their insurance company they carry passengers from time to time and their insurance for their business covers the business as a whole. Couriers, private school buses, private companies for companies that transport workers to job sites, medical transit companies.

It's just a messed.

The laws need to govern the riders other wise recind the hitch hiking law and leave people alone.


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## Guest

Start with CHUBB Insurance


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## Andy1234

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> You dont understand!
> 
> You run a business.
> 
> You carry insurance on your business.
> 
> Your business activity involves transportation.
> 
> You need business insurance.
> 
> Nobody is gonna issue UBER driver insurance and there is NO SUCH THING AS RIDESHARE INSURANCE.


No such thing??? https://www.geico.com/getaquote/ridesharing/


----------



## Desert Driver

Chris Dee said:


> No one forces you to work for Uber, if you have an issue with your private carrier then switch to one that doesn't or provides such insurance.
> Lancer and Ascendant are popular among limo or cab companies. Florida works it this way and usually it works like this elsewhere;
> -You must have an LLC
> -The vehicle has to be registered by it
> -You are the operator of the vehicle listed or others that could operate it.
> 
> My cost was $3900/year, the vehicle might also need to be registered as a "livery car" for your county/state.
> The vehicle might need to be inspected, (safety).
> 
> These are the issues that TLC companies are pissed about because they have to comply with them yet Uber refuses to.
> Take your chances but get into an accident and it's a toss up on what's going to happen.


It's not a toss up at all what's going to happen. Unless the other driver was at fault, you are officially ****ed. I discussed this topic at length here...

https://uberpeople.net/threads/restart-uber-responds-to-desert-drivers-succinct-questions.10451/

To date, this is the mot exhaustive real-word discussion of the insurance dangers inherent with driving Uber.


----------



## Desert Driver

Bottom line here here, folks, is this. If you're driving for a TNC and you do not have commercial insurance and you do not have a dual-lens dashcam installed in your car, you are flirting with disaster. An appropriate metaphor here is picking up street-walkers, making doughnuts, and not wearing a canyon coaster. Everything is well and plenty fun...until it isn't.


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## Desert Driver

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> You dont understand!
> 
> You run a business.
> 
> You carry insurance on your business.
> 
> Your business activity involves transportation.
> 
> You need business insurance.
> 
> Nobody is gonna issue UBER driver insurance and there is NO SUCH THING AS RIDESHARE INSURANCE.


Here is the most complete discussion to date on the topic...

https://uberpeople.net/threads/restart-uber-responds-to-desert-drivers-succinct-questions.10451/


----------



## big bill

this is the wisdom of uber why bother with high priced commercial insurance,tags,compliance of any kind,we are a smart phone,not a car service
here in nyc you must have the correct tags and insurance or be arrested by the tlc police

private insurance is rated for private mileages and risk profiles not for taxis
wait until you have a few high profile losses companies refuse to cover as in your policy paid for hire is excluded from coverage

hail the modern livery/taxi driver private plates no insurance and 5 smart phones glued to his dash

all good!


----------



## Guest

Andy1234 said:


> No such thing??? https://www.geico.com/getaquote/ridesharing/


There is no such thing .. that term is code for NO DONT INSURE THIS PERSON if you check the check box


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## Andy1234

So you are saying that the policy that GEICO wrote specifically for Uber drivers is a complete lie?? I have the policy. I have read the policy. It is completely valid. Now if you are saying that GEICO is purposely defrauding Uber drivers in VA... well then I suppose that is completely different conversation. The previous thread y'all are referring back to talks in length about Ubering with a personal policy which I agree has giant gaps that could cost the driver.


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## Guest

They don't cover anyone in any other state from my understanding.


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## Guest

It is probably insufficient insurance.


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## Guest

It looks like it's expanding

http://m.ibamag.com/news/geico-launches-insurance-product-for-uber-drivers-21266.aspx


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## Desert Driver

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> It looks like it's expanding
> 
> http://m.ibamag.com/news/geico-launches-insurance-product-for-uber-drivers-21266.aspx


But if it's like other Geico insurance, it's the next best thing to having no insurance at all.


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## Andy1234

Yes it is only available in VA. I would also agree that GEICO is not the best carrier in general, but it is the only one in VA that covers this type of activity. USAA is currently piloting Rideshare insurance in CO.... if they expand to VA I will definitely be switching since USAA covers my personal vehicles and I have had nothing but good experiences with them.


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## ExpAwesome

How did Geico find out that you were ridesharing?


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## Guest

ok, I will share this ..

DRAW UP A LIABILITY WAIVER AND MAKE SEVERAL COPIES, AND REQUEST EACH PASSENGER TO SIGN IT...

WAIVER OF LIABILITY, ABSOLVING YOU OF ANY LIABILITY WHILE THEY ARE IN YOUR PERSONAL VEHICLE...

all this worry is about the safety and security of the RIDER...

DRIVERS legally are called THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS to the riders. .. and a rider who enters a THIRD PARTY PROVIDER (you and your car), UBER is absolved from any liability, the rider signs that digitally when they sign up.

YOU need to have them sign something to that effect too to protect yourself since there are not real insurance coverage available other than an accident that is not your fault. Here is an example of what I mean:

*WAIVER OF LIABILITY*

I, ________________________________, UBER RIDER hereinafter referred to as *"RIDER"* UNDERSTAND THAT (DRIVER'S NAME), THIRD PARTY PROVIDER, hereinafter reverred to as *"DRIVER"* WHILE DOES MAINTAINING SUITABILITY, SAFETY AND SECURITY OF *DRIVER's *VEHICLE DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE SUITABILITY or SAFETY and SECURITY OF _*DRIVER's *_VEHICLE. IT IS SOLELY _*RIDER's *_RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE WHETHER _*DRIVER *_MEETS _*RIDER's *_NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS. _*RIDER *_ACKNOWLEDGES THAT _*DRIVER *_MAY BE EXPOSED TO SITUATIONS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF DRIVER IN THE ORDINARY COURSE OF DRIVING, AND THAT USE OF _*DRIVER *_ARRANGED OR SCHEDULED THROUGH UBER IS AT _*RIDER's*_ SOLE RISK and DISCRETION. _*DRIVER *_SHALL NOT BEAR ANY LIABILITY ARISING FROM OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO *RIDER'S *TRANSACTION OR RELATIONSHIP WITH _*DRIVER*_.

Signature: _________________________________________________ Date:___________________________ Time: __________________________


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> ok, I will share this ..
> 
> DRAW UP A LIABILITY WAIVER AND MAKE SEVERAL COPIES, AND REQUEST EACH PASSENGER TO SIGN IT...
> 
> WAIVER OF LIABILITY, ABSOLVING YOU OF ANY LIABILITY WHILE THEY ARE IN YOUR PERSONAL VEHICLE...
> 
> all this worry is about the safety and security of the RIDER...
> 
> DRIVERS legally are called THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS to the riders. .. and a rider who enters a THIRD PARTY PROVIDER (you and your car), UBER is absolved from any liability, the rider signs that digitally when they sign up.
> 
> YOU need to have them sign something to that effect too to protect yourself since there are not real insurance coverage available other than an accident that is not your fault. Here is an example of what I mean:
> 
> *WAIVER OF LIABILITY*
> 
> I, ________________________________, UBER RIDER hereinafter referred to as *"RIDER"* UNDERSTAND THAT (DRIVER'S NAME), THIRD PARTY PROVIDER, hereinafter reverred to as *"DRIVER"* WHILE DOES MAINTAINING SUITABILITY, SAFETY AND SECURITY OF *DRIVER's *VEHICLE DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE SUITABILITY or SAFETY and SECURITY OF _*DRIVER's *_VEHICLE. IT IS SOLELY _*RIDER's *_RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE WHETHER _*DRIVER *_MEETS _*RIDER's *_NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS. _*RIDER *_ACKNOWLEDGES THAT _*DRIVER *_MAY BE EXPOSED TO SITUATIONS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF DRIVER IN THE ORDINARY COURSE OF DRIVING, AND THAT USE OF _*DRIVER *_ARRANGED OR SCHEDULED THROUGH UBER IS AT _*RIDER's*_ SOLE RISK and DISCRETION. _*DRIVER *_SHALL NOT BEAR ANY LIABILITY ARISING FROM OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO *RIDER'S *TRANSACTION OR RELATIONSHIP WITH _*DRIVER*_.
> 
> Signature: _________________________________________________ Date:___________________________ Time: __________________________


POST # 84 /@Orlando UBER Driver : Yeah,
Good
Luck with that! Keep the Membership
apprised of Your Success Rate.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 84 /@Orlando UBER Driver : Yeah,
> Good
> Luck with that! Keep the Membership
> apprised of Your Success Rate.


He'd be better off trying to upsell the pax passenger insurance. Tell them Uber's might be iffy.


----------



## Guest

UBER isnt the sheriff between 3rd party providers and people who USE THEIR app of which they asked the rider to sign away liability of them, it is clearly written that they are not part of the decision once they enter the drivers car. You might get a lot of bad ratings. If you were an employee of UBER they could fire you, but they don't control your"work". Read the contract.


----------



## Guest

Your big thing is how terrible uber is to drivers .. you just have it all wrong.


----------



## Guest

JeffB said:


> No one is going to sign that. If I was your passenger and you insisted I sign it I would get out of your car and report you to Uber.


UBER would just take it under advisement, but that is not a safety or any type of issue that they describe riders should report. Drivers are the ones at risk in every way.


----------



## Guest

JeffB said:


> Wow, there have been 26 views on this thread and no one has replied. Is literally EVERYONE driving with a personal policy that specifically forbids them from driving rideshare? Does everyone really have their heads in the sand on this?
> 
> Why isn't this the most pressing topic in on this forum? Why are driver ratings and where to go peepee more important than this one? Don't you know that if you are in an accident your auto insurance company is not only going to deny your claim, they are also going to blackball you in the auto insurance industry by reporting you to the national database as someone who has violated the terms of his/her policy? Good luck ever getting reasonably priced insurance again.
> 
> Is there no one on this forum who has found a policy that allows us to rideshare? Be a hero and tell us what company will insure us properly. You will certainly be mine if you do.


Do you have a policy? If so, what is cost? Thank you


----------



## Guest

JeffB said:


> What are you talking about? I never said I wasn't interested in paying for legitimate coverage! That's exactly what I'm trying to do!
> 
> For the record; does that mean that you are no longer driving UberX and now drive for Black or SUV? That would explain why you have commercial insurance; it's required for those categories.
> 
> I am trying to find a cost-effective way to drive for UberX. I am not a professional driver. I want a moonlighting experience, but I want to do it RIGHT. Commercial insurance at 2-3 times what I am paying for personal coverage won't do it. This non-professional rideshare insurance issue is becoming so big that eventually some insurance company is going to come to the rescue of the UberX/Lyft drivers. They have to; it's becoming too big a business opportunity for them for it not to. The business world abhors a vacuum, and some company will fill it. I''m just trying to find out if someone already has. And believe me, when I find it I am not going to be so proprietary with that information. I thought this was a forum TO HELP EACH OTHER, not to ensure that everyone goes through the same trials and tribulations I have. I won't simply tell everyone to "earn it" as you have.


I'm doing this part time too. Mostly fot fun, I need to find coverage too.


----------



## Guest

I do not believe an insurance exists for UBER .. except UBER's insurance fund (self insurance) ... UBER can itself BE an insurance company in other words.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> I do not believe an insurance exists for UBER .. except UBER's insurance fund (self insurance) ... UBER can itself BE an insurance company in other words.


I don't believe James River has been cleared at some levels in many, if any, states. I'd guess it's more of an umbrella back up for Uber myself. A piece of paper to stick in the state files for supposed compliance, but by an insurance company not cleared to insure any commercial autos in any state.

Entirely sleight of hand.


----------



## nikb

The entire reason I called Progressive and got a quote for commercial coverage before I even start driving. Thankfully Progressive JUST a few weeks ago started offering coverage in Pennsylvania for this. I'll be paying about $350 in insurance (I know it's high, but that is partly because my wife is on the policy and is under 25), but it will be primary regardless of what "phase" of driving I am in. I'm not gonna bet anything on James River looking out for me. Hopefully the rates will come down as more actuarial data becomes available (or another company offers a cheaper policy in PA), but for now, I can't imagine putting myself through the stress of potentially being un-insurable. Or the nightmare of losing a car that I still have years to pay off if I'm in a no-fault accident.


----------



## scrurbscrud

nikb said:


> The entire reason I called Progressive and got a quote for commercial coverage before I even start driving. Thankfully Progressive JUST a few weeks ago started offering coverage in Pennsylvania for this. I'll be paying about $350 in insurance (I know it's high, but that is partly because my wife is on the policy and is under 25), but it will be primary regardless of what "phase" of driving I am in. I'm not gonna bet anything on James River looking out for me. Hopefully the rates will come down as more actuarial data becomes available (or another company offers a cheaper policy in PA), but for now, I can't imagine putting myself through the stress of potentially being un-insurable. Or the nightmare of losing a car that I still have years to pay off if I'm in a no-fault accident.


Absolutely brilliant! Congrats! At least you won't ruin your life Ubering.


----------



## MikeB

It is absolutely mind-boggling how the U.S. states knowing that Uber X drivers are driving public practically UNINSURED have not banned Uber out of existence and no media has raised this issue to the point that it is clear to everyone what scam goes on in this country on a daily bacis!


----------



## scrurbscrud

MikeB said:


> It is absolutely mind-boggling how the U.S. states knowing that Uber X drivers are driving public practically UNINSURED have not banned Uber out of existence and no media has raised this issue to the point that it is clear to everyone what scam goes on in this country on a daily bacis!


Uber obviously doesn't care. Neither do regulators. Pax certainly don't.

That leaves only us to consider for ourselves.


----------



## nikb

If the regulators were doing their jobs they'd require drivers to have commercial insurance, then Uber would have to pay better, or no one would drive.


----------



## HitTheRoad

I am also in PA and we are required by law (Public Utility Commission - PUC) to inform our insurance company about our Uberness. Before I made my first Uber trip, I was actually required to check a box that said, "Yes, I will tell my insurance company."

I was hoping to have a little bit of interaction with user @nikb who recently got Progressive insurance to cover ride-sharing. I got all excited when I read that my insurance company now has ride-share insurance, then I discovered that it's only in Indiana and Illinois. =(

Are there other states with PUC's? Are you guys not required to check a box before your initial trip that says you agree to tell your insurance company that you're ride-sharing?


----------



## scrurbscrud

HitTheRoad said:


> Are there other states with PUC's? Are you guys not required to check a box before your initial trip that says you agree to tell your insurance company that you're ride-sharing?


Interesting. Apparently Uber now wants to document driver fraudulent claims? Why don't they just mandate compliance and get the fraud monkey off the drivers backs?


----------



## nikb

HitTheRoad said:


> I was hoping to have a little bit of interaction with user @nikb who recently got Progressive insurance to cover ride-sharing. I got all excited when I read that my insurance company now has ride-share insurance, then I discovered that it's only in Indiana and Illinois. =(


Progressive just started offering this a few weeks ago in PA. They are, to my knowledge, the only insurance company offering commercial for ridesharing in the state. I'll warn you, it's not cheap. My 6 month is $2040, which is on the cheap side of commercial insurance. But that includes my under 25 wife. If you are the only driver, it probably won't be so high.

The one catch is that you do have to be approved to drive for lyft before they will provide you a quote, but I specifically asked her if the policy was still primary even if I was driving for Uber, she said yes it is.


----------



## HitTheRoad

nikb said:


> The one catch is that you do have to be approved to drive for lyft before they will provide you a quote


Thanks for the quick reply, nikb. About the quote above: do I understand that you let them know you'd be driving for Lyft and Uber? I don't think Lyft is live in my area (and I don't want to put a ridiculous pink mustache on my car anyway).

$4,080 per year is just off-the-wall-bat-shit-crazy. There's no way that the majority of drivers can pay that. I was trying to figure it out last night, and that premium means that I must drive for 1-2 weeks at least 20 hours before paying that month's insurance.... So technically working for half-pay on what is already pretty low.

How much would you guess your wife's inclusion adds to the yearly policy premium?


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## HitTheRoad

I just called Progressive (*855-260-1717) *and the guy (who sells Progressive direct insurance) informed me that they do NOT do ride-share insurance for Uber in PA... I told them that an acquaintance has the insurance. He said that it was likely bought from an agent.

@nikb Can you provide more info about which agent you called or how you went about getting the insurance?


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## nikb

They actually had to have me on a conference call to Lyft to access my account and prove that I am indeed approved to drive for them.

I'm willing to pay the cost because at the moment my full time work schedule is so unpredictable that there's no way I could find other part time work that wouldn't interfere.

I didn't ask how much having her on the policy added, but my guess is that it could be as much as 100 a month. She's also required to be on the policy, since I guess for commercial insurance, all licence drivers in the household must be on the policy. I would have prefer to not have her on it, as she almost never drives my car anyway. But for the time being, such is life. You can always hope. Someone else will offer a hybrid soon, I feel like that might be coming.


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## scrurbscrud

HitTheRoad said:


> $4,080 per year is just off-the-wall-bat-shit-crazy. There's no way that the majority of drivers can pay that. I was trying to figure it out last night, and that premium means that I must drive for 1-2 weeks at least 20 hours before paying that month's insurance.... So technically working for half-pay on what is already pretty low.


In all fairness in order to derive the 'real cost' for such coverage a driver needs to subtract from that figure what they were paying for a personal auto policy prior to derive the 'real additional cost of commercial insurance.'

In most cases drivers may have already been paying $800-1200 a year or more prior. If it was $1000 for example the real cost to driver on a $4080 policy would be a $3080 real additional cost, or an additional $256 per month.

That additional insurance cost is going to look pretty cheap in comparison to the alternatives in case of accident. Not to mention the risk that non-properly insured drivers are already in when voiding their personal policies by doing ride share. A lot of you guys are driving around on voided policies and you don't even know it or are unaware of it and the consequences.

And some are aware and just taking their chances. The saddest victims of their own self deceptions.


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## nikb

That's the number I called, they won't even discuss it unless you are approved to drive for Lyft, sorry. Some kind of partnership.


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## HitTheRoad

nikb said:


> That's the number I called, they won't even discuss it unless you are approved to drive for Lyft, sorry. Some kind of partnership.


That's ****ing brutal because Lyft is not approved in my area so there's no chance to do this legit.


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## scrurbscrud

nikb said:


> That's the number I called, they won't even discuss it unless you are approved to drive for Lyft, sorry. Some kind of partnership.


The best route for any driver is to contact their local personal auto policy community and obtain, from those local agents, names of local commercial insurance brokers. For every 100 personal auto policy agents there are maybe only 5 commercial insurance brokers. And drivers may need to speak to 5 personal auto policy insurance agents just to get one commercial insurance brokers information. They can be hard to locate because they don't advertise much.

From those commercial brokers you can get a wide variety of applicable commercial quotes for the biz. Part timers should probably report that they drive full time, and some probably are considering that many drive 40 hours Fri. - Sun.


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## HitTheRoad

scrurbscrud said:


> Part timers should probably report that they drive full time


1) Why?

2) Isn't this going to be a silly $12,000 commercial policy like I read somewhere else on the forum?


----------



## Guest

Oh Boy! So, called my insurance, State farm, no rider, no go. And they said if I find a commercial policy, week need to cancel personal policy.

Asked the commercial department at work, they don't have any carriers that will write commercial policy.

So, I see why many if not most drivers don't have coverage and are driving illegally. To me that would be so stressful. 

A HUGE chance to take every time I get behind the wheel. Ugh.....


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## scrurbscrud

HitTheRoad said:


> 1) Why?


The only way a driver doing the gig part time is through the alliances mentioned by Nikb because part timers are MORE RISK than full timers. And most commercial insurance companies already know that people who only drive part time are not only higher risk, but also likely not to want to pay anyway, and likely to not be long term customers.


> 2) Isn't this going to be a silly $12,000 commercial policy like I read somewhere else on the forum?


Any driver who is serious about it should be able to get quotes similar to nikb's IF they claim full time driving, even if that turns out not to be the case after the fact.

At least they'd have coverage. Most drivers prefer ignorance and think that will get them by until their world implodes in an accident and they are proven to be poser cabbies.

Uber or Lyft sure as hell don't care about drivers. They'll toss drivers under the bus all the day long. Most drivers who get in accidents that are their fault are going to be deactivated anyway. Without an insurance company forcing them to pay up how 'loyal' do you think they will be to any covered driver? Think they'll be generous on 'vehicle' valuations knowing a driver is finished driving anyway? They already state they aren't paying personal injuries to drivers either.

Don't expect any pity from anyone in the system. If a driver doesn't cover themselves they'll just be another sad story victim *who also probably committed electronic fraud to Uber.* Don't think Uber won't come back to haunt them with fraud charges to get their payouts down either.


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## scrurbscrud

Lizamtampa said:


> Oh Boy! So, called my insurance, State farm, no rider, no go. And they said if I find a commercial policy, week need to cancel personal policy.
> 
> Asked the commercial department at work, they don't have any carriers that will write commercial policy.
> 
> So, I see why many if not most drivers don't have coverage and are driving illegally. To me that would be so stressful.
> 
> A HUGE chance to take every time I get behind the wheel. Ugh.....


*I'm generally coming to realize that this whole part time cabby thing with Uber/Lyft is an ONLINE SCAM being perped on the ignorant drivers.*


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## HitTheRoad

I'm continuing to search for information about Progressive, but I still cannot find any sources that say Uber drivers are actually covered by their brand new ride-share policy. @nikb has the policy and states that he has it (in writing?) from Progressive that his Lyft and Uber activities are fully covered. Everything I have found (including speaking with Progressive) says, "Lyft only, Lyft only, Lyft only."

*Edit: this all referring to Progressive's new PA policy.


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## nikb

Lyft and Uber both know that their driving pool would drop if the drivers knew that their personal policies are worthless, which is why they do the shady thing of simply saying "check with your carrier".


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## Guest

What to do...... What to do..... Love to drive need extra cash flow. Grrrrrrr. Not a break the law kind of person. Getting caught and getting in an accident would make me loose it all and that isn't much...


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## nikb

HitTheRoad said:


> I'm continuing to search for information about Progressive, but I still cannot find any sources that say Uber drivers are actually covered by their brand new ride-share policy. @nikb has the policy and states that he has it (in writing?) from Progressive that his Lyft and Uber activities are fully covered. Everything I have found (including speaking with Progressive) says, "Lyft only, Lyft only, Lyft only."
> 
> *Edit: this all referring to Progressive's new PA policy.


I asked 2 different people when I called the various times. They all said that they do not reject coverage based on who you are driving for if an accident occurs, just that you must drive for Lyft in order to qualify for coverage. I do wonder what would happen if someone got deactivated from Lyft, but I don't plan on that.


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## scrurbscrud

nikb said:


> Lyft and Uber both know that their driving pool would drop if the drivers knew that their personal policies are worthless, *which is why they do the shady thing* of simply saying "check with your carrier".


*It's enticement to perform illegal activty (voiding a personal auto policy and letting drivers do it anyway!)*

That's why this part time online cabbie thing is an outright SCAM. These ****s ought to be bent over and sent directly to jail.


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## LEAFdriver

I just quick scanned this thread and didn't see any mention of *Metromile. *I have 2 cars insured through them (both used for Uber) and today is the ending of my first month's billing cycle. I don't have the 'official' bill for last month yet, but I drove approx 3000 miles last month and my base rate for both cars is $28.28 per month and then .028 cents per mile. Uber miles are deducted from my personal miles each month. I got a rough estimate today and _*my total bill for both cars last month should be around $80! *_ I was paying a little bit more than that with my personal insurance (Farmer's) before I started with Uber! Not a bad deal! Also, before I discovered Metromile from a fellow Uber driver here on UP.....I was insured with Erie Insurance that offered TNC hybrid insurance and I was paying $129 a month! (And they did not offer Roadside Assistance! Metromile does!) So I'm saving $50 a month off of my former insurance. Also, if I decide to go on vacation, etc....and won't be driving my cars for a good length of time, my insurance will go down significantly. For instance, if I take a month off for vacation to Florida and our cars aren't being driven at all...I only pay $28 for that month! I love it!


*What is the partnership between Uber and Metromile?*
Metromile has partnered with Uber in order to help driver partners of Uber's Transportation Network Companies save money on personal auto insurance. Metromile can already tabulate total miles driven. Now, in coordination with Uber, miles driven from accepting a ride request to dropping off a passenger(s) can be distinguished. Traditional auto insurers may not cover livery risks under a personal auto policy. By purchasing a per-mile policy through Metromile, personal insurance coverage includes the timeframe when a driver partner of Uber's TNCs has their app on while looking for a ride request, in addition to their typical personal time.


*In which states does Metromile offer per-mile insurance?*
Currently, per-mile insurance is available in *California, Oregon, Washington, and Illinois.* We are working on making more states available. Sign up here for notifications.


*Does this mean I can get personal insurance from Metromile as an Uber driver partner?*
*Yes.* This new type of policy was designed specifically to give driver partners of Uber's Transportation Network Companies an option for personal auto coverage. Coverage through Metromile is not mandatory; rather, it is an option that may be more cost-effective than purchasing a commercial policy.


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## Guest

Was referred to a coworker, he's running quotes from Progressive and thru another broker. Stay tuned....

Oh coworker loves Uber.... What a Surprise!


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## Fuzzyelvis

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> UBER would just take it under advisement, but that is not a safety or any type of issue that they describe riders should report. Drivers are the ones at risk in every way.


Uber would probably deactivate you.


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## Huberis

nikb said:


> The entire reason I called Progressive and got a quote for commercial coverage before I even start driving. Thankfully Progressive JUST a few weeks ago started offering coverage in Pennsylvania for this. I'll be paying about $350 in insurance (I know it's high, but that is partly because my wife is on the policy and is under 25), but it will be primary regardless of what "phase" of driving I am in. I'm not gonna bet anything on James River looking out for me. Hopefully the rates will come down as more actuarial data becomes available (or another company offers a cheaper policy in PA), but for now, I can't imagine putting myself through the stress of potentially being un-insurable. Or the nightmare of losing a car that I still have years to pay off if I'm in a no-fault accident.


$350/month? $350/6months?? How often?


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## Huberis

Orlando UBER Driver said:


> ok, I will share this ..
> 
> DRAW UP A LIABILITY WAIVER AND MAKE SEVERAL COPIES, AND REQUEST EACH PASSENGER TO SIGN IT...
> 
> WAIVER OF LIABILITY, ABSOLVING YOU OF ANY LIABILITY WHILE THEY ARE IN YOUR PERSONAL VEHICLE...
> 
> all this worry is about the safety and security of the RIDER...
> 
> DRIVERS legally are called THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS to the riders. .. and a rider who enters a THIRD PARTY PROVIDER (you and your car), UBER is absolved from any liability, the rider signs that digitally when they sign up.
> 
> YOU need to have them sign something to that effect too to protect yourself since there are not real insurance coverage available other than an accident that is not your fault. Here is an example of what I mean:
> 
> *WAIVER OF LIABILITY*
> 
> I, ________________________________, UBER RIDER hereinafter referred to as *"RIDER"* UNDERSTAND THAT (DRIVER'S NAME), THIRD PARTY PROVIDER, hereinafter reverred to as *"DRIVER"* WHILE DOES MAINTAINING SUITABILITY, SAFETY AND SECURITY OF *DRIVER's *VEHICLE DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE SUITABILITY or SAFETY and SECURITY OF _*DRIVER's *_VEHICLE. IT IS SOLELY _*RIDER's *_RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE WHETHER _*DRIVER *_MEETS _*RIDER's *_NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS. _*RIDER *_ACKNOWLEDGES THAT _*DRIVER *_MAY BE EXPOSED TO SITUATIONS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF DRIVER IN THE ORDINARY COURSE OF DRIVING, AND THAT USE OF _*DRIVER *_ARRANGED OR SCHEDULED THROUGH UBER IS AT _*RIDER's*_ SOLE RISK and DISCRETION. _*DRIVER *_SHALL NOT BEAR ANY LIABILITY ARISING FROM OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO *RIDER'S *TRANSACTION OR RELATIONSHIP WITH _*DRIVER*_.
> 
> Signature: _________________________________________________ Date:___________________________ Time: __________________________


I'm going to make a snowball on the sun. My guess is that you (the driver) don't get to do that in this case. For one thing, the state your in wants you to have insurance because should you be in an accident, you may hurt someone in addition to just you or your passenger. If you go sky diving, the company may have you sign a waiver of some sort, but they damn well still have insurance.

When you suggest "YOU need to have them sign something to that effect too to protect yourself since there are not real insurance coverage available other than an accident that is not your fault" The idea is a person needs to protect themselves by way of waiver for the reason that there is no real, meaningful insurance coverage. The catch is, it is law in every state that a driver operates with real coverage. You can't ignore that and just say "sign on the dotted line. If you are driving on personal insurance, you are driving with invalidated coverage - the consequences are pretty much out of your hands from that moment on.


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## nikb

Huberis said:


> $350/month? $350/6months?? How often?


350 a month. My current rate is 120 a month, so the additional insurance burden is 230 a month.


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## Desert Driver

HitTheRoad said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, nikb. About the quote above: do I understand that you let them know you'd be driving for Lyft and Uber? I don't think Lyft is live in my area (and I don't want to put a ridiculous pink mustache on my car anyway).
> 
> $4,080 per year is just off-the-wall-bat-shit-crazy. There's no way that the majority of drivers can pay that. I was trying to figure it out last night, and that premium means that I must drive for 1-2 weeks at least 20 hours before paying that month's insurance.... So technically working for half-pay on what is already pretty low.
> 
> How much would you guess your wife's inclusion adds to the yearly policy premium?


Lyft doesn't do the big moustaches any longer. They were making the cars targets for upset cabbies. What they send out now is a much smaller version of the cuddlestache. I keep mine on the dash. The drunk betties love doing selfies with it. If Lyft does come to your area, you'll definitely want to get enrolled with them. The in-app tipping feature is nice and you almost never encounter ******bags like you do with Uber.


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## UberOnSD

scrurbscrud said:


> *The instant you said you weren't interested in paying for legit coverage.*
> 
> Yeah, it sucks having that bill but it would suck even more to go down the financial shitter doing UberX by riding bareback from lack of proper insurance. For the record for UberX rates I could no longer justify having the insurance I do nor would I nor would I even consider putting my ass in a liability sling for their shit for pay.
> 
> **** Uber, their rates and their leaving drivers hanging in the wind. They don't give a ratz ass about you or I, and the feeling is mutual, I assure you.


Instead of raising hell with Uber, people should be raising hell with the crooks in the insurance industry. Why doesnt anyone do that instead? At least in the People's Republic of California, hybrid policies will be available. Metromile is already out there.


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## nikb

Hybrid policies are great for insurance companies, cause it decreases their liability, since they don't have to pay out most of the time you are driving. However, it screws the driver, because the hybrid policy means that the filing of a claim while a passenger is in the car has to be processed and denied by the hybrid company and then processed through James River, and even then, are any of us sure that they will actually pay? And that $1,000 Deductible ($2,500 with Lyft), is ridiculous. This means that the filing of the claim will take a long time (can't drive and make money while waiting for the car to be fixed). I'll gladly take my commerical policy that covers me at all times with a $500 deductible. I just wish it were slightly cheaper. I'm glad paying double a personal policy rate, but three times is my limit (where I'm at now).


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## Bill Hunter ins brokers

Here in Arizona make sure your carrier will extend coverage for cars for hire. In most they will not cover Uber drivers so be careful and
check with your ins. company. I have one company that will cover if your are a driver in ride sharing. Bill Hunter Ins brokers.
You can expect to pay monthly between $ 350 to 500.


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## Guest

Bill, thank you. Waiting on a broker to call me back. 300 plus is very steep.


I'm only doing this a few hours a week.

Thank you


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## Guest

So, the quote I got was $2800 for liability... Add another $1200 for property damage. Can't afford to do Uber PT.

Ouch!


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## Huberis

That would be salty. It is still rather low end compared to what taxi insurance can run. $1200 for property damage? That means collision right?


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## Guest

I'm not sure.. All I know is I can't afford it.. It is a losing situation unless you drive for your livelihood. Maybe something else will eventually turn up. I don't know too many folks who could afford this coverage. 

Good luck to all.


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## newsboy559

JeffB said:


> Wow, there have been 26 views on this thread and no one has replied. Is literally EVERYONE driving with a personal policy that specifically forbids them from driving rideshare? Does everyone really have their heads in the sand on this?
> 
> Why isn't this the most pressing topic in on this forum? Why are driver ratings and where to go peepee more important than this one? Don't you know that if you are in an accident your auto insurance company is not only going to deny your claim, they are also going to blackball you in the auto insurance industry by reporting you to the national database as someone who has violated the terms of his/her policy? Good luck ever getting reasonably priced insurance again.
> 
> Is there no one on this forum who has found a policy that allows us to rideshare? Be a hero and tell us what company will insure us properly. You will certainly be mine if you do.


Yes. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of people who do this are not only lying to their insurance companies, they are lying to themselves. They simply convince themselves that the longer they do this without being caught, the better it is.. Until the inevitable happens and they get into an accident and finally come to the realization that they're screwed.

Driving for hire is a serious business and it needs serious riders. This whole "your friend with a ride" is a bunch of BS.


----------



## newsboy559

Tim In Cleveland said:


> From the time you are pinged until the customer gets out of the car, you are covered under Uber. Driving around looking for work IS NOT RIDESHARING. It's commuting and no different than driving to fill out job applications or go to job interviews. It's covered under your personal policy. If you have an accident waiting for a ping, you should not report "I was driving for Uber". That's not true. You were job hunting. If they deny the claim, it's lawsuit time.
> The best quote I got on commercial insurance was from Progressive who quoted me, I think, $3700 a year. Still too much. There is no such thing as a policy providing commercial insurance between rides and that is what you need. They likely will never come out with one, because between rides is looking for work and already covered under personal policies.


If this is what you are telling yourself to continue the lie that you are not driving commercially, you are certainly going farther out on a limb than even most other ride hail drivers who simply know theyre breaking policy (and the law), but choose to just keep on going.

With all due respect, you are a fool for believing that you are "commuting" during the time you don't have a rider in your vehicle. Seriously, that is comical. By all means, after your accident, and after the insurance company finds out that you were, in fact, working on a ride-hailing platform, go-ahead and attempt to tell them that you were simply "commuting" to your job. I would love to hear how deep their belly laugh is.


----------



## newsboy559

Tim In Cleveland said:


> From the time you are pinged until the customer gets out of the car, you are covered under Uber. Driving around looking for work IS NOT RIDESHARING. It's commuting and no different than driving to fill out job applications or go to job interviews. It's covered under your personal policy. If you have an accident waiting for a ping, you should not report "I was driving for Uber". That's not true. You were job hunting. If they deny the claim, it's lawsuit time.
> The best quote I got on commercial insurance was from Progressive who quoted me, I think, $3700 a year. Still too much. There is no such thing as a policy providing commercial insurance between rides and that is what you need. They likely will never come out with one, because between rides is looking for work and already covered under personal policies.


Lastly, you are most certainly NOT covered under Uber's policy for the time you have a rider in your vehicle. Your rider is. You and your vehicle are not. Uber's insurance policy is LIABILITY only. That means it covers what you are liable for damaging... Not you or your car. You are certainly living in a ride hail fantasy world. But, hey... Uber on!


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## Guest

You are right!


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## Guest

newsboy559 said:


> Yes. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of people who do this are not only lying to their insurance companies, they are lying to themselves. They simply convince themselves that the longer they do this without being caught, the better it is.. Until the inevitable happens and they get into an accident and finally come to the realization that they're screwed.
> 
> Driving for hire is a serious business and it needs serious riders. This whole "your friend with a ride" is a bunch of BS.


Insurance quote tonight of around 2800 to 4000 a year.


----------



## Guest

newsboy559 said:


> If this is what you are telling yourself to continue the lie that you are not driving commercially, you are certainly going farther out on a limb than even most other ride hail drivers who simply know theyre breaking policy (and the law), but choose to just keep on going.
> 
> With all due respect, you are a fool for believing that you are "commuting" during the time you don't have a rider in your vehicle. Seriously, that is comical. By all means, after your accident, and after the insurance company finds out that you were, in fact, working on a ride-hailing platform, go-ahead and attempt to tell them that you were simply "commuting" to your job. I would love to hear how deep their belly laugh is.


Newsboy.. Do you drive for Uber? If not what is your occupation? Just curious as you know a lot about this stuff.


----------



## frndthDuvel

newsboy559 said:


> Yes. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of people who do this are not only lying to their insurance companies, they are lying to themselves. They simply convince themselves that the longer they do this without being caught, the better it is.. .


Why does anybody in a state that slashes taxes for the wealthy and then slashes school budgets as it nears bankruptcy,not to mention the war on women, care about what UBER drivers choose to do?


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## Huberis

It's not that they care so much about what they might do, but who they might hit. A driver needs to have valid insurance. Personal insurance is invalidated by driving for UBER. UBER has liability for your pax and who you may have collided with if and only if you had a pax on board and even if they will cover it, and encouraged you to commit fraud by keeping it from your personal carrier, preferring to let James River make the pronouncement upon your first at fault......... on and on. That is why people would like to know what is going on. 

Simply suing an uninsured driver doesn't work. If they couldn't afford proper insurance in the first place, it's hard getting blood from a stone.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Huberis said:


> Simply suing an uninsured driver doesn't work. If they couldn't afford proper insurance in the first place, it's hard getting blood from a stone.


UBEr has too much at stake to not pay when needed. They are not going to advertise that. And the Drive will still in all likely hood be ****ed going forward for a time being. But UBER will be doing what they need to do. Does it not seem a bit odd that there has not been more stories than the few we have heard about? Non disclosures work when money is at stake.


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## Bill Hunter ins brokers

Being in the business 25yrs, I see where the insurance companies are coming from. They don't want to charge for a premium for a single passenger vehicle
with one or two drivers rated. They think all private passengers vehicles are driven to and from work ( 20 miles a day).
This is one of the first questions we ask for a quote is how the car is driven.
So when a Uber driver adds to exposure of additional 100 to 400 miles a week makes this rating a whole different ballgame.
I think Insurance companies make plenty of money and I like lower rates too but I see where they are concerned about
Uber and Lyft exposure.


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## Older Chauffeur

Huberis said:


> That would be salty. It is still rather low end compared to what taxi insurance can run. $1200 for property damage? That means collision right?


"Propert Damage" refers to the property of others, and your liability to pay for damage you cause, whether to vehicles or fixed property such as buildings, fences, etc. This coverage is required by law, along with "Public Liability," which pays for injuries to others caused by your driving. "Collision" covers damage to your own vehicle.


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## Huberis

@OlderChauffeur Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize it would be itemized like that. So, the cost for that mentioned policy would have been the two combined and still would not have included collision.


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## azndriver87

I have allstate and you can chose "for business," 45,000/year, and they will still quote you.


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## Older Chauffeur

Is that 20k additional ride share miles or the total you expect to put on your car? From what I have read here, that seems low, especially in Texas.


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## Tim In Cleveland

I just started a new thread to say that Esurance does not cancel you for working for Uber. They do not cover any of the phases, but do cover when the app is off.


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## Tim In Cleveland

Esurance won't cover you while the app is on, but they won't cancel you for being a driver and will cover when the app is off.


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## Bill Hunter ins brokers

Out of all my carriers I only have one that at this time will do Uber.
If you're in Arizona call me and I can get you a rate. Thanks Bill Hunter Insurance Brokers 602-266-2020.
I hope more carriers will open up their guidelines for ride shares services!
Good Luck Bill


----------



## SpecialK

Simon said:


> Liberty mutual in my state writes for Uber drivers... but they will not cover you if you were Ubering at the time of the accident. They won't cancel you but.. your on your own if you wreck. BTW Uber insurance covers everything except the driver and the car... so if you hit something you the driver is on the hook for the costs Of your health and vehicle damage.
> 
> Good luck this is gonna get worse before it gets better.


So the Uber insurance is just liability insurance for Uber? I thought they covered vehicle damage with a $1000 deductible. What does an injured rider do?


----------



## Simon

SpecialK said:


> So the Uber insurance is just liability insurance for Uber? I thought they covered vehicle damage with a $1000 deductible. What does an injured rider do?


The way was explained to me was exactly what i said above. Search my posts for my conversation with Uber about insurance.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Bill Hunter ins brokers said:


> Out of all my carriers I only have one that at this time will do Uber. I hope more carriers will open up their guidelines for ride shares services!


Geico is writing rideshare endorsements here for the Virginia and Maryland suburbs, but not in the City. I am not sure why they have excluded the City, but I have my suspicions. Part of it might be that for-hire vehicle insurance here is a niche market. The two week policy period for taxis and limousines might also have something to do with it. Again, I am not one-hundred per cent sure on any of this, but, knowing what I do about the for-hire insurance market here, I would not be surprised. The DISB (Department of Insurance, Securities and Banking), or whatever that agency's name is this week, has been silent on this whole thing. It has not even stated what it considers UberX to be, although most carriers put rideshare in the same category as for hire. The for hire insurers here have stated that DISB has not authorised them to write for rideshare.



Simon said:


> The way was explained to me was exactly what i said above. Search my posts for my conversation with Uber about insurance.


Supposedly Allstate and Progressive will not drop you if you do rideshare, but have stated that if you hit something while logged in, do not expect them to pay. I do find that curious, as what the broker above has stated does factor into rating a risk. I do not pay that much insurance on two of my cars because I do not drive them to work, or, very much at all. Because I do rideshare in one, it does run up miles, but still fewer miles than your average private car. This is because I do rideshare only enough to stay in the game. I drive the taxi, mostly, which my carrier on the other three does not insure, because it does not write for taxis in the District of Columbia. The first thing that most brokers ask you when you ask for an automobile policy is "Are you going to drive it to work?". If you are not, it lowers the premium, as a rule. Some carriers will ask you how far you drive to work. We have people who work in this area but live in the Baltimore Metropolitan Area. They pay higher insurance premiums because they drive to work. The same applies to those who live in the Virginia exurbs.


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## Desert Driver

If you're driving for U/L and all you're carrying is your personal auto insurance, here's how the Uber insurance model is designed and this is what will happen...

When you're driving for Uber/Lyft you're more than likely in direct violation of the livery exclusion of your personal auto insurance policy.
When you are operating your car in direct violation of ANY of the terms of your policy, you are operating your automobile without insurance coverage.
If you get into an at-fault crash, U/L will tell you to first contact your insurance company.
When you contact your insurance company and explain what happened you will be dropped by your insurance company. You will also be informed that there was no insurance coverage in place at the time of the accident since you were in direct violation of terms of your insurance policy.
When you go back to Uber/Lyft for an insurance settlement you will have to tell them what happened. When you explain that you had no insurance coverage at the time of the accident, your claim will be denied because you told Uber/Lyft you had insurance coverage when you started driving.
You now have a damaged car that you will have to repair/replace out of your own pocket.
If you do get your car repaired or replaced out of your own pocket, you will have difficulty insuring it because you are now on record for violating your insurance policy terms and were dropped by your previous carrier.
Bottom line here is that if you do not carry a commercial livery policy when you drive for Uber/Lyft you are playing Russian roulette. If you are involved in an at-fault accident, you are going to get bent over and phuqued...hard. And don't blame Uber/Lyft for your predicament as this is part of the U/L business model.


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## TomP

I haven't taken the time to go through all 7 pages of this thread to see is someone else has posted it, but there is another website, *TheRideShareGuy* that some people may find useful. TheRideShareGuy is maintaining a list of which states have insurance companies that offer ridesharing insurance.


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## Tx rides

Desert Driver said:


> If you're driving for U/L and all you're carrying is your personal auto insurance, here's how the Uber insurance model is designed and this is what will happen...
> 
> When you're driving for Uber/Lyft you're more than likely in direct violation of the livery exclusion of your personal auto insurance policy.
> When you are operating your car in direct violation of ANY of the terms of your policy, you are operating your automobile without insurance coverage.
> If you get into an at-fault crash, U/L will tell you to first contact your insurance company.
> When you contact your insurance company and explain what happened you will be dropped by your insurance company. You will also be informed that there was no insurance coverage in place at the time of the accident since you were in direct violation of terms of your insurance policy.
> When you go back to Uber/Lyft for an insurance settlement you will have to tell them what happened. When you explain that you had no insurance coverage at the time of the accident, your claim will be denied because you told Uber/Lyft you had insurance coverage when you started driving.
> You now have a damaged car that you will have to repair/replace out of your own pocket.
> If you do get your car repaired or replaced out of your own pocket, you will have difficulty insuring it because you are now on record for violating your insurance policy terms and were dropped by your previous carrier.
> Bottom line here is that if you do not carry a commercial livery policy when you drive for Uber/Lyft you are playing Russian roulette. If you are involved in an at-fault accident, you are going to get bent over and phuqued...hard. And don't blame Uber/Lyft for your predicament as this is part of the U/L business model.


And with more companies making their livery exclusion crystal clear, it can be argued that you are knowingly driving uninsured, which is another charge in the event of an accident:-(


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## Kelly Henline

USAA offers a ridesharing "gap" policy rider for your personal policy in TX


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## Uber's Goober

An issue that is not being addressed is: the personal health insurance will deny the claims... The reason is the "Check Box "on the claim form- " is this injury related to an Automobile Accident"? The healthcare facility will indicate "Auto Accident" and the claims will be denied indicating to forward to the responsible party which would be the insurance company.


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## Desert Driver

Uber's Goober said:


> An issue that is not being addressed is: the personal health insurance will deny the claims... The reason is the "Check Box "on the claim form- " is this injury related to an Automobile Accident"? The healthcare facility will indicate "Auto Accident" and the claims will be denied indicating to forward to the responsible party which would be the insurance company.


That is correct. And when I spoke with Chris Boedeker at Uber's Risk Management Dept last December he was very clear about that very fact. Unless a driver is carrying healthcare insurance, driving for Uber is a horrible risk. He even went so far as to say that, at the very least, drivers should be covered by Obamacare for health insurance. Again, Uber passes the cost of doing business off on its "partners."

The thing to remember here is that Uber doesn't give a rat's äss about the welfare of drivers. Remember your Econ 101 course in college? This is capitalism. And what is the most expendable resource in any capitalistic system? That's right: Labor.


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## radzer0

Something that a lot of this isn't mentioning is how in some markets uber insurance is required to be the main insurance over all others. 

Since im in the new orleans market in order for them to operate here they have to supply all of the required insurance same as a taxi driver would have to have as a first line. You can purchase more policy as a backup beyond the minimum but even most taxi drivers don't have more than the required. 

I would also think that as things happen more places who dont have these rules in effect would add them. 

I would guess that we aren't the only market that requires this. 

This is from a legal analyst right after everything got approved. 

"The ride-hailing companies in New Orleans are obligated to provide the level of insurance the council mandated while you're on the job -- that means from the point you turn on the app to accept passengers to the moment you turn it off. But technically, you can't drive at all in Louisiana without personal insurance and you would be using your personal vehicle, after all."


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## FlDriver

Some companies in some states offer an add-on called ridesharing coverage.


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## Older Chauffeur

Uber's Goober said:


> An issue that is not being addressed is: the personal health insurance will deny the claims... The reason is the "Check Box "on the claim form- " is this injury related to an Automobile Accident"? The healthcare facility will indicate "Auto Accident" and the claims will be denied indicating to forward to the responsible party which would be the insurance company.


That was not my experience, although it was about thirty years ago, and maybe they have changed the rules. My group health insurance paid for my treatments for injuries sustained in an accident in which I was rear ended. When I settled with the other party's insurer, I had to reimburse my health insurer for a portion of what they had paid on my behalf.


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## Uber's Goober

Older Chauffeur said:


> That was not my experience, although it was about thirty years ago, and maybe they have changed the rules. My group health insurance paid for my treatments for injuries sustained in an accident in which I was rear ended. When I settled with the other party's insurer, I had to reimburse my health insurer for a portion of what they had paid on my behalf.


I'm not sure when it changed but I billed insurance and it's on the form now.


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## Christmaster

Andy1234 said:


> No such thing??? https://www.geico.com/getaquote/ridesharing/


Lol not available in nyc


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## Teri Lynn

scrurbscrud said:


> Contact local commercial insurance brokers and find out what's available. It doesn't do any good to direct anyone to a specific carrier because every state is different and companies have different rules from state to state.
> 
> IF you want to find an acceptable policy, you will find one.
> 
> You are right that it is a dirty little secret with ride share companies. They don't care if your ass is left hanging in the wind or that you are technically driving in violation of the terms of your personal auto policy directives.


 USSA now offers gap insurance in Ca


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## TriadUberGoober

My insurance is with State Farm. I haven't told them I am driving for Uber, kind of afraid to bring it up. I just got a quote online from Liberty Mutual and they quoted me $66/month for my 2011 Prius (paid for) and 2 older personal vehicles. I did disclose that I would be using the Prius for business use including transporting passengers and estimated annual mileage of 25,000, which will probably end up being low if I keep driving like I have been. $66 sounds very cheap to me. I think I am paying significantly more than that with State Farm, but I do have collision and other damage insurance.


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## Teri Lynn

TriadUberGoober said:


> My insurance is with State Farm. I haven't told them I am driving for Uber, kind of afraid to bring it up. I just got a quote online from Liberty Mutual and they quoted me $66/month for my 2011 Prius (paid for) and 2 older personal vehicles. I did disclose that I would be using the Prius for business use including transporting passengers and estimated annual mileage of 25,000, which will probably end up being low if I keep driving like I have been. $66 sounds very cheap to me. I think I am paying significantly more than that with State Farm, but I do have collision and other damage insurance.


 I checked in with USAA before I signed with Uber. I also saw an article in their newsletter about testing gap insurance in several states. Seems like a lot of military dependent want to make some extra money. TL


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## Boltbird

Farmers insurance in CA does


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