# Literally No One is Profiting



## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

*Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.

So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...






If you were only able to make it through the first half of the above video before throwing your phone at the wall, the second half explains why this is all happening: For a number of years now, interest rates have been historically low (and were slashed again in March to a record 0%), which means those with large amounts of cash became desperate for a way to gain higher returns. Venture capitalists, hedge funds, and all sorts of other high-stakes gamblers began throwing around large sums of money and investing in whatever they could, praying for huge outcomes. This is how the modern world ended up withcompanies like Theranos, Juicero, and a glut of third-party delivery systems,which, according to Investment Management Associates CEO Vitaliy Katsenelson, "are still trying to figure out how to make money off of this."

So what can we expect in the future? Some investors predict that the industry will consolidate into only one or two companies, and once most of the competition is eliminated, fees and commissions can be raised. (On June 10, Dutch company Just Eat Takeaway acquired Grubhub for $7.3 billion; Grubhub itself merged with Seamless in 2013 and since its founding has acquired Foodlers, OrderUp, Eat24, AllMenus, DiningIn, Restaurants on the Run, Delivered Dish, LABite, LevelUp, and Tapingo.)

Others believe that in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, third-party delivery apps will be the final nail in the coffin for restaurants. Then, right before all the restaurants close and the drivers lose their low-paying jobs, investors will cash out, and then the third-party delivery services will also go out of business.

https://thetakeout.com/literally-no-one-is-profiting-off-of-third-party-delive-1844180260TL;DR
restaurants are losing money,
the drivers are losing money, 
and the companies are collectively losing billions of dollars with an unprofitable business model.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

I don’t quite agree. As much as pple hate (and some love) Travis on here he’s into something with the ghost kitchen or the cloud kitchen.

Restaurants are a beast to deal with. When I was a business banker, I’ve heard the first two year makes or breaks.

ive seen some restaurants that folks would think is successful (I mean think bacon) and it’s not. They’re consistently needing to meet payroll, cash strapped, etc.

I’ve also seen restaurants that you think is just in the hole spots carry $$$$ in cash. All to expand on yet another location. But it’s very hard work.

there’s a Chinese restaurant that has a full restaurant but only 2-3 tables are ever filled. I’d say 90-95% of their business is take out.

restaurants, the experience of dining won’t go entirely away. ESP brunch spots or places like Gary danko (I didn’t realize I dropped a napkin (like that cloth one not disposable) till someone tapped me on the shoulder with a new one).

however people are liking (aka me) the convenience of ordering. I could order a pizza and between the two of us, takes a couple of days. If I order one for myself, it’s 4 days easily worth of food. And the cost of it plus tip and taxes spread over that many days isn’t so bad esp if I don’t use utensils (so no washing/water/etc) it’s pretty budget friendly. At least for me.


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## NotYetADriver (Oct 28, 2014)

NO WAY!

I've had at least three people here tell me they make $1500 a WEEK....AFTER EXPENSES !

Surely they were the "low" earners. hmpfff !!!!


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Ponzi schemes like Softbank are the biggest problem. Wall Street is #2.

That is why these companies exist without profits. Screw the retail and pension fund pooch with the IPO and laugh all the way to the Caymans with your vig, or wherever the banksters hide their proceeds of crime nowadays.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

VC’s invest, job is to take it public or private buyout. If it goes public , they have the pension fund swindlers hold the stock for them until they unload them. Robinhood vegan boys also playing the revolving door game. If it goes private , VC’s already know the companies that will buy them out.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


It's not until the tide goes out that you can see who's swimming naked.

Whole thing reminds me of PeaPod and the rest of the dotcom turds that got flushed down the toilet.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Well, at least the curtain is finally being pulled back en masse. I've been reading on here for years posters telling people to enjoy it all while it lasts - the dirt cheap rides in nice cars and cheap deliveries with a _full_ refund if you get 4 ketchup packets with your order instead of the 5 you wanted. Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of these companies know the status quo is simply unsustainable.

And all the workers of these gig companies left like Mayo in An Officer and a Gentleman...








(* Spoiler alert: these drivers will find something else)


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Although 30% sounds pretty high, it's probably sixes if they had to higher employees as delivery drivers. Employees are expensive.

The apps probably the losers as they just refund $$$ left and right. Yesterday I had two orders. 2nd was a smoothie shop, with a tasty bowl + 3 smoothies. I mistakenly put the delivery bag from my 1st delivery over the bowl for my 2nd. Delivered their 3 smoothies but missed the bowl. Found it an hour later! Sure they get a full refund instead of just a refund for the bowl. Meanwhile, I got a nice lunch.

Month or so ago, had a $60 Papa John's order. The customer address wasn't correct. People at the address didn't order anything! I had already swiped delivered, so had no way of getting a hold of the customer. I called Eats support. No clue if the foreign rep knew what I was saying, and in the end told me to move on to my next delivery and dispose of the food. By "dispose", I took that as eat it. Ate pizza for a week. Oh, and I still made $10 on the delivery and a $5 tip (shrug).

Week ago, had a Burger King delivery. The app, or customer, or something, duplicated the order! UE sent both deliveries to me, the 2nd one while I was actually in the Burger King waiting on the 1st one. Exact orders. Exact food. Exact cost. I took both, and talked to the lady. She didn't know and didn't want the 2nd order. I got 2 whoppers, 2 fries, 2 drinks, 2 delivery pays, and 2 tips. Made $20 off that plus dinner.

So, I know I'm not the looser on the delivery side. I think it's most likely the apps that end up eating mistakes.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

DriverMark said:


> Although 30% sounds pretty high, it's probably sixes if they had to higher employees as delivery drivers. Employees are expensive.
> 
> The apps probably the losers as they just refund $$$ left and right. Yesterday I had two orders. 2nd was a smoothie shop, with a tasty bowl + 3 smoothies. I mistakenly put the delivery bag from my 1st delivery over the bowl for my 2nd. Delivered their 3 smoothies but missed the bowl. Found it an hour later! Sure they get a full refund instead of just a refund for the bowl. Meanwhile, I got a nice lunch.
> 
> ...


Try they split the loss with the restaurant.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Far as profiting myself. I'm putting 1/3 the miles on my car over driving people around. Delivering though you aren't going to get those huge spikes in $$$ that you can driving people. Think surges, bonus, etc. But all thing considering, I'm doing decent delivering money wise.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> Although 30% sounds pretty high, it's probably sixes if they had to higher employees as delivery drivers. Employees are expensive.
> 
> The apps probably the losers as they just refund $$$ left and right. Yesterday I had two orders. 2nd was a smoothie shop, with a tasty bowl + 3 smoothies. I mistakenly put the delivery bag from my 1st delivery over the bowl for my 2nd. Delivered their 3 smoothies but missed the bowl. Found it an hour later! Sure they get a full refund instead of just a refund for the bowl. Meanwhile, I got a nice lunch.
> 
> ...


How much weight have you gained doing UE? :roflmao:


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Restaurant's were not forced to use delivery apps. If they couldn't run the numbers and figure out they would be losing money then they shouldn't be in business. It is no different than a driver saying he is losing money yet still continues to drive.


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## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

I grossed 2k this week. I think I did 5 deliveries, rest were pax runs.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)




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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

TBone said:


> Restaurant's were not forced to use delivery apps. If they couldn't run the numbers and figure out they would be losing money then they shouldn't be in business. It is no different than a driver saying he is losing money yet still continues to drive.


Right. If the service is inefficient or a ripoff, and the delivery business is viable, then somebody else will be along to build a better mouse trap.

At the moment, though, food delivery apps show the signs of, like rideshare, being an investor-funded cash incineration machine with no viable path to profitability.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> investor-funded cash incineration machine


Can I use that line ?


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

SinTaxERROR said:


> How much weight have you gained doing UE? :roflmao:


I lost 80 lbs....... but yea, that was a lot of damn food LOL. Thankfully I have a wife, 3 kids and 3 dogs to help eat it all :roflmao:


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DriverMark said:


> Although 30% sounds pretty high, it's probably sixes if they had to higher employees as delivery drivers. Employees are expensive.
> 
> The apps probably the losers as they just refund $$$ left and right. Yesterday I had two orders. 2nd was a smoothie shop, with a tasty bowl + 3 smoothies. I mistakenly put the delivery bag from my 1st delivery over the bowl for my 2nd. Delivered their 3 smoothies but missed the bowl. Found it an hour later! Sure they get a full refund instead of just a refund for the bowl. Meanwhile, I got a nice lunch.
> 
> ...


Drivers are not expensive. Pay them less than minimum wage, less than a dollar per delivery, and let them make it up in tips. Charge the customer a delivery charge, enough to cover most of that.

That's what Dominos does. Their delivery charge is getting high ($4 where I am) but customers pay it and still tip way better than Ubereats.

Drivers get minimum wage while not dispatched, less while on delivery. Raises just close that gap.

Restaurants that have not traditionally done delivery didn't because they made more money in house (especially alcohol) and only started doing it because they felt they had to to compete. now that everybody is getting so used to ordering from restaurants for delivery and in a lot of places they can even order alcohol it's entirely possible that restaurants could also set up their own delivery service with their own drivers and have it be worth it.

Unfortunately at this point the apps have taken control of it and it's hard for a restaurant to get anyone to call them directly.

Basically the whole gig, app, pay somebody else to handle deliveries does not work for anybody but the CEO of the app company who disappears with his billions.

If all the app companies went out of business tomorrow the restaurants would probably set up their own delivery and move into that phase and it would work for many of them.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MHR said:


> the companies are collectively losing billions of dollars with an unprofitable business model.


But they make it up in volume &#129318;‍♂


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

You do realize some restaurants don't pay a dime to DD and GH. Those are the ones you pay with the Red Card or Grubhubs "order and pay". The delivery apps in that case make a % exactly like any credit card company does.

Delivery drivers have been around forever, and forever have (and will) depend on tips. Some that do well figure out which orders to take and which not to. Some drivers will average $25 per hour gross and some will be in the $8-$12 range, hence the constant flow of people quitting and new people starting. Those that last figure it out.

The app companies must change big time if they ever want to stop losing money. They subsidize garbage orders. Many of these garbage orders pay a driver WAY more than the stupid order is worth. Stop delivering a milkshake! IMHO the gig apps need to:

Charge a delivery fee ALWAYS. Believe it or not there are so many coupons and discounts many pay no delivery fee for their food.
Make deliveries available only to minimum order values. NO ONE will ever make a penny delivering a milkshake, coffee, or a happy meal so don't allow it.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


I'm not surprised.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting*​


This simply isn't true. I am profiting. I may not be raking in money hand over fist, but I turn a profit. I wouldn't be driving if I didn't.



MHR said:


> Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can...


I don't want to turn this into a discussion on driving strategies, but no. I'm not competing to grab as many orders as I can. I'm competing to grab the _*profitable*_ orders. Somebody else can have the $3 Taco Bell deliveries. I want no part of those. Quality over quantity.



MHR said:


> Some investors predict that the industry will consolidate into only one or two companies, and once most of the competition is eliminated, fees and commissions can be raised.


This is precisely why anti-trust laws exist, to prevent consolidation and increased prices due to lack of competition. I'm not saying that it won't happen as lobbying dollars are a powerful force, but this is specifically what anti-trust laws are intended to prevent.



MHR said:


> Others believe that in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, third-party delivery apps will be the final nail in the coffin for restaurants. Then, right before all the restaurants close and the drivers lose their low-paying jobs, investors will cash out, and then the third-party delivery services will also go out of business.


And then new restaurants will open and the whole cycle will start over gain.



sellkatsell44 said:


> there's a Chinese restaurant that has a full restaurant but only 2-3 tables are ever filled. I'd say 90-95% of their business is take out.


There's this Japanese restaurant that I pick up at sometimes. Every time I go there, my car is the only one in the parking lot and the place is completely empty. It's not like there is a flood of delivery orders either. Usually, I don't see another driver while I am there. I have often wondered how they stay in business.



The Gift of Fish said:


> At the moment, though, food delivery apps show the signs of, like rideshare, being an investor-funded cash incineration machine with no viable path to profitability.


That is what I see from my vantage point. I am very skeptical that there is a formula that makes it work for all four parties involved (app company, restaurant, end customer, and driver).....which is ultimately what is needed for it to be viable in the long term. In order to pay drivers and still make a profit for themselves, the app companies will need to take too much from the restaurants and end customers. I'm just riding this wave until it ends or I get too bored with it.


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

World’s gone to shit. Where’s the reset button?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Tony73 said:


> World's gone to shit. Where's the reset button?


I bought one with my EIDL &#129488;


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Tony73 said:


> World's gone to shit. Where's the reset button?


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Tony73 said:


> World's gone to shit. Where's the reset button?


I'm not sure of its exact location, but for God's sake just keep Donald away from it.

.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Literally?


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> This simply isn't true. I am profiting. I may not be raking in money hand over fist, but I turn a profit. I wouldn't be driving if I didn't.


Completely agree. I am using a 7 year old paid for car. After fuel and oil changes I perform, there is Profit. The guy in the video lied about $7/hr and the reporter should have asked for pay statements.

The app companies either these or the next ones just need to cut their expenses. Stop the spending, it shouldn't take thousands of people to run a company that doesn't actually DO anything.

Restaurants can and should hire their own delivery drivers if they don't want to pay the Apps. Let's see how that works for them.

Customers are paying alot for a convenience. Hopefully that will continue.


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## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

How am I losing when I can go out here and do 25 orders a day and make nearly $300... if I did that nearly 300 days a year that will be 90 grand a yeAR? How is I'm "making pennys"?


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## Lute Byrt (Feb 20, 2020)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


Surprised?


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## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​restaurants are losing money,
> the drivers are losing money,
> and the companies are collectively losing billions of dollars with an unprofitable business model.


Drones will soon take over. The economics of using drones will allow for everyone to eke out a profit. There will be a new class of job called "drone stuffer" (i.e., putting the food inside the drone's delivery compartment_.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


Hopes and dreams.. it all runs on hopes and dreams.... milk that cow till you can milk it no more.


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## Aharm (Aug 14, 2015)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


Yep, learn to be an investor i guess ?

But another point to this, for the peons or gig workers like us, is to keep track of which companies investors are pouring money into. That way we know which companies will be paying their gig workers well. Think Uber pre IPO, especially when they were giving those 120 ride $500 bonuses. That was all coming out of the investors pockets.

Gig work is profitable if you are smart. It's like a business, you have to lower your expenses. Those delivery drivers on scooters, they are not losing money, they are in the profit, and maybe even huge profits if it's the right timing. If you are driving a camry/corolla or whatever, then yes you are probably losing money. Be smart.


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## tkman (Apr 13, 2020)

There are cost benefits to a restaurant that is set up with the intention of using the delivery services. The cost reductions are with staff - no waitresses, waiters, hostess,table clearing, dish washers, etc. Less square footage so lower costs. Only pay per meal delivered so during slow times no staff waiting around getting paid to do little. Easily ramp up a new menu, offer various menus under different names, maximize kitchen use and cooks time. The question is does these benefits out weight the cost 30% charge for a delivery? If you price the meals to account for the 30% it works. Can easily handle more meals and deliveries by triggering more drivers. Why doesn't this work? It offers another revenue stream for restaurants. They can support deliveries, customer order and takeout, and if they have the square footage they can also support in house eating at tables. Just different revenue streams with different models. All can work.


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## everydayimubering (Aug 5, 2017)

Who says no one's making any money? During the recent lock-down when everyone was sitting at home and ordering food - most drivers were easily making anywhere from $600 to a $1,000 per week or even more. Some of them made enough to payoff their past loans and overdue bills and are smiling cheek to cheek. Can't say anything about the future, but the lock-down was good for most UE drivers.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Seamus said:


> You do realize some restaurants don't pay a dime to DD and GH. Those are the ones you pay with the Red Card or Grubhubs "order and pay". The delivery apps in that case make a % exactly like any credit card company does.
> 
> Delivery drivers have been around forever, and forever have (and will) depend on tips. Some that do well figure out which orders to take and which not to. Some drivers will average $25 per hour gross and some will be in the $8-$12 range, hence the constant flow of people quitting and new people starting. Those that last figure it out.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm one of those who cherrypicks, which is why I don't do ubereats because so few tip with it where I am so it's not worth the risk. Doordash is ok except when they simply send no good trips.

Red card deliveries are not that common to be sent to me, and are generally fast food and not worth the effort anyway. They are the exception to the restaurant paying the fee, but not the rule.

Yes, the discounts are ridiculous, and when DD was giving a guarantee, sometimes that backfired for them. But that's sort of my point. The current system doesn't work. A lot of that is the lack of tipping, which makes those $3 trips get ignored by so many drivers.

The apps are discounting on one end, overcharging on another, paying drivers far too little, sometimes too much...the system is just a mess, unlike delivery by employees for, for example, Dominos or other places that use their own drivers.



everydayimubering said:


> Who says no one's making any money? During the recent lock-down when everyone was sitting at home and ordering food - most drivers were easily making anywhere from $600 to a $1,000 per week or even more. Some of them made enough to payoff their past loans and overdue bills and are smiling cheek to cheek. Can't say anything about the future, but the lock-down was good for most UE drivers.


Lockdown is a very unusual time. But it's a bit like expecting to live off lottery winnings because one week you won $5000. It will sustain you for a while, but the gravy train will end.

As soon as Texas opened up the money went down where I live. It just jumped up a bit this week as many places have closed up again. It won't last.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Red card deliveries are not that common to be sent to me, and are generally fast food and not worth the effort anyway.


UE is so bad in my market I just deleted the app! I was rarely ever taking any, my acceptance rate was 3%! LOL.

In the NYC suburbs Red Card and Grubhub card orders are primarily Pizza/Italian places and Chinese food. The rest being small local restaurants. In this market most pizza is still independently owned old school family places, people around here don't buy franchise pizza much. Those old school Italian men aren't going to give DD/GH a nickel! At least in my market no FF uses Red Card or GH Card.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

TBone said:


> Restaurant's were not forced to use delivery apps. If they couldn't run the numbers and figure out they would be losing money then they shouldn't be in business. It is no different than a driver saying he is losing money yet still continues to drive.


Restaurants felt (probably in many cases, rightly so) that if they didn't they would become invisible to customers.

Although I don't want to do the "if you don't like being a driver, get another job" that's at least something a driver can try to do, (plus, many are part time), whereas a restaurant can't just change into something else.


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Restaurants felt (probably in many cases, rightly so) that if they didn't they would become invisible to customers.
> 
> Although I don't want to do the "if you don't like being a driver, get another job" that's at least something a driver can try to do, (plus, many are part time), whereas a restaurant can't just change into something else.


Restaurants can hire their own delivery drivers. Pick the 5 best Uber drivers that they meet at their restaurants and offer them a new job.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> Far as profiting myself. I'm putting 1/3 the miles on my car over driving people around. Delivering though you aren't going to get those huge spikes in $$$ that you can driving people. Think surges, bonus, etc. But all thing considering, I'm doing decent delivering money wise.


Surge spikes are dead where have you been? Uber keeps the surge now and gives you a $2 "bonus'

That said, "rideshare" is a much more mature business than food delivery, and food delivery will come down to earth sooner or later.

There is no way you should make more money driving around big macs than you make driving around human beings.

One job is inherently more difficult, requires a nicer car, and carries more liability than the other.



KevinJohnson said:


> Restaurants can hire their own delivery drivers. Pick the 5 best Uber drivers that they meet at their restaurants and offer them a new job.


Theoretically a communal system of delivery drivers should be much cheaper and more efficient than each restaurant hiring and maintaining their own delivery drivers, the problem comes when the apps try to "maximize revenues".


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Seamus said:


> UE is so bad in my market I just deleted the app! I was rarely ever taking any, my acceptance rate was 3%! LOL.
> 
> In the NYC suburbs Red Card and Grubhub card orders are primarily Pizza/Italian places and Chinese food. The rest being small local restaurants. In this market most pizza is still independently owned old school family places, people around here don't buy franchise pizza much. Those old school Italian men aren't going to give DD/GH a nickel! At least in my market no FF uses Red Card or GH Card.


Here the three big chains have most of the pizza market. In trendy areas and nicer suburbs there are some smaller chains and there are VERY FEW true independents.

There's a small chain called Pepperoni's and I've picked up DD there (it's literally half a mile from my house and often is a very short delivery, sometimes to my subdivision). They have their own drivers but also are in the system with their own customer account, and if one of their drivers is out or they get behind, they use DD themselves for deliveries. They pay a straight $8 for that. Definitely more than a driver is costing them since they don't go out of their delivery area. I don't know what they pay for orders their customers do themselves through DD, assuming they get those too.

It seems like at least 80% of places except for a few burger chains in my area (suburban) are on almost every app. It goes from very high end places that I can't believe even do takeout to independent and many chain burger places. The burger chains that don't have tablets get a lot of red card orders. I VERY rarely accept those.

I keep ubereats only because now it shows where the delivery is going and if it's less than a couple of miles and I'm close to the restaurant I'll take a chance if I'm not getting any good DD orders. I'll cancel in a second if DD comes through though. The tips are happening more on ubereats now, but ALL tips are up since COVID, so I don't expect that to last. There are still many who don't tip, or tip 5 or 10% on a $10 order, so I'm just not willing to drive any distance for them. The good thing is the food is usually ready. If it's not and DD comes through I'll cancel unless it's going the same way. If I already have a DD I'll take ubereats going the same way, too. I won't wait for it, though.

I didn't jump on GrubHub when it came here and I'm on the waiting list now. So can't speak to that yet.

Postmates is horrible. I only look at the app to see if it's busy. You often have to order the food and there are many small orders with no or small tips. It's like ubereats but with long waits. It does at least show you where you're going, but unless it's a high end restaurant where it's already been ordered, it's not worth bothering.

Mostly I sit in my house, watch TV or work on something I can drop to leave, and cherrypick DD. My acceptance rate is about 5-8%. Even trips that would theoretically be ok are ignored because I want to go home in-between deliveries, so I take that mileage into account. There simply aren't enough good trips to sit in my car and wait for one, and I refuse to service cheap customers. I take the mileage, the restaurant, and number of items into account. I'm right almost all the time about which trips pay more than it shows on the app because I know which subdivisions tip well and which restaurants have good tipping customers. I may take 3 trips in 3 hours, but I'm in the house much of the time getting other things done (I'm also working from home half the day for my regular job and that's flexible, so that's nice, too). I often average $15 per trip, but only because I know this area really well. So the per hour may not be great (sometimes it is, especially if they send me good trips while I'm out) but I'm not working that hard, either.



KevinJohnson said:


> Restaurants can hire their own delivery drivers. Pick the 5 best Uber drivers that they meet at their restaurants and offer them a new job.


Yes, but for many millennials and whatever that next generation is called, if it's not in an app it doesn't exist. So they won't get those customers.

There are restaurants that have their own drivers and no delivery charge, and customers still use the app because that's what they know.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

jeanocelot said:


> Drones will soon take over. The economics of using drones will allow for everyone to eke out a profit. There will be a new class of job called "drone stuffer" (i.e., putting the food inside the drone's delivery compartment_.


You need to read the news more.

VC firms have written off billions in the drone bizz. It's over.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Yes, but for many millennials and whatever that next generation is called, if it's not in an app it doesn't exist. So they won't get those customers.


BINGO! You got that right and that's why a lot of them do it. Todays crowd open up the DD or GH app and use it as one big menu to decide what they want to eat. Without DD, GH, and UE participation, they only get the people who knew they wanted their food to start with and miss a big portion of the market. It's almost like part of their fee to DD, GH, and UE is a marketing/advertising expense also.


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## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> You need to read the news more.
> 
> VC firms have written off billions in the drone bizz. It's over.


No maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that the food-delivery-by-human model costs about $5 per order (and the ants are complaining about that price as too low) plus the tip that everyone expects. I have got to think that once the FAA approves, the cost for each delivery-by-drone just has to be a lot less. I'd pay an extra buck for the delivery, but it I have to pay $5 + tip, I'm cooking stuff myself.

We will still need car-sized vehicles to deliver humans, but not for a 1 pound sandwich.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

z_z_z_ said:


> Surge spikes are dead where have you been? Uber keeps the surge now and gives you a $2 "bonus'
> 
> That said, "rideshare" is a much more mature business than food delivery, and food delivery will come down to earth sooner or later.
> 
> ...


I make $1.50-$2 per mile delivering food. Hard to do that consistently, at least right now, driving people on X. Generally over $20/hr on delivery. That's fine for now until C19 chills some. I'm thinking ski season for me. But we will see.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> I make $1.50-$2 per mile delivering food. Hard to do that consistently, at least right now, driving people on X. Generally over $20/hr on delivery. That's fine for now until C19 chills some. I'm thinking ski season for me. But we will see.


Yeah I'm pretty sure the food apps are intentionally overpaying drivers to compete in recruiting them to their platform so they can have faster delivery times since no one wants to wait an hour for cold food... eventually that will have to stop though? Not sure but I don't think about it too much since I am a 100% taxi/rideshare kind of guy... would rather sell my car than deliver food.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

z_z_z_ said:


> would rather sell my car than deliver food.


I understand it's not for everyone but why?


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

Seamus said:


> I understand it's not for everyone but why?


Working in the fast food industry in any capacity is not something I want to go back to. My last job before I started driving a cab was delivering food, and I was very happy to be out of that demeaning line of work and into something that felt much more respectable and professional. It also helped that cab drivers used to make double or triple what a stupid food delivery driver would make. &#129315;

A year after that Uber came to town and ruined the cab business, I switched to the apps but I am not going back to bringing people their food to their door like a servant, waiting for them to answer the door, handing them their shit and smiling at them like an idiot hoping for a tip.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

I've made multiple comments here about this over the past year. The whole idea is losing all the way around. And the idea that consolidation to just a couple apps will allow them to raise fees doesn't make sense either, since customers and restaurants are already complaining about the fees as is.

I've used the apps a few times in the last few months, and even when the delivery fee is discounted or free, there's a service fee. So you are paying a lot extra when you could just go get the food yourself.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

MHR said:


> *Literally no one is profiting off of third-party delivery apps*​
> So by now you've most likely heard that delivery apps like Grubhub, Door Dash, and Uber Eats are potentially harmful to restaurants, as evidenced by some of the most exciting dystopian developments in the food world. These delivery services take up to 30% of every order, often wiping out a restaurant's profits entirely, or worse, driving it into the red. Delivery drivers are members of the gig economy, competing with other delivery people to grab as many orders as they can, and making a pittance for it.
> 
> So if restaurants are losing money, and drivers are making pennies, then it must be those third-party services themselves that are drowning in quarantine cash, right? Well, PBS NewsHour decided to get to the bottom of things, and you'll never believe what they discovered...
> ...


How is this true? Drivers certainly don't make pennies and Im sure in most markets is more profitable then working minimum wage. Why would a restaurant agree to work with delivery services if it wasn't a profitable venture? I only see more restaurants sign up to do UberEats every week. And if Uber wasn't profiting then why wouldn't they scrap the problem entirely like they have done before. Sounds like a BS article if you ask me. Look at the hard facts.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Read every comment on this post trying to make sense out of the notion that how when I was in my 20's delivering pizza part-time to supplement my day job, working for a mom-pop establishment whose business was 90% delivery, and somehow that model paid the family's bills..... so how could that model not scale up?

It seems the current delivery model doesn't work for the same reason that the ridesharing model doesn't work; *the middle man is taking too large of a slice*. _An assertion underscored by the fact that the system is supposed to be fully automated_. The restaurant complains they're paying too much. The customer complains they're paying too much. The middle man is raking it in, but in an attempt to run its competition out of business is giving the store away in promotions, discounts, and refunds.

And the delivery person? From reports on this board the system _is_ working for a fair number of drivers. The PBS story is flawed in that they picked what appears to be a full-time driver trying to live in SF on what he makes from being a delivery driver. An edge case. PBS painted a worse case scenario across the board to pump the story up.

I could be wrong about all this.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

_Tron_ said:


> From reports on this board the system _is_ working for a fair number of drivers.


This forum represents an extremely small slice of the overall driver population and this small slice is likely not statistically representative of the overall population, so I don't think it is safe to draw any conclusion one way or the other based solely on anecdotal evidence found on here. It may be true that _most_ drivers do not profit from this. I'm not going to dispute that. That's the kind of thing that you need statistical evidence to make an argument for. What I dispute is the article title that states, "Literally no one is profiting." That is simply not true, as I am profiting and it only takes one person profiting for that statement to be false.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> This forum represents an extremely small slice of the overall driver population and this small slice is likely not statistically representative of the overall population, so I don't think it is safe to draw any conclusion one way or the other based solely on anecdotal evidence found on here.


Agreed. That is why I said "a fair number of drivers". Using an edge case made the report suspect. I think we're both saying they same thing. ;>


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## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

z_z_z_ said:


> ... I am not going back to bringing people their food to their door like a servant, waiting for them to answer the door, handing them their shit and smiling at them like an idiot hoping for a tip.


Someone needs an attitude adjustment ...


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

jeanocelot said:


> Someone needs an attitude adjustment ...


No, I have plenty of job options that are open to me besides food delivery and I choose to not do food delivery for the reasons I stated.

You need an attitude adjustment.

Food delivery is obviously a "service" industry job. You are acting as a paid servant for these people. Your only role is to fetch their dinner and bring it to their door. You wait at the restaurant for their food, you wait at their door for them to answer (before corona). These people are more than capable of going to get their own food or cooking for themselves in their house but they don't want to do either of those things so they pay you to be an errand boy and go pick up their dinner for them. Being the cook at McDonald's requires more skill than what you are asked to do in food delivery, after all the cook is the one actually making the food! You are the bottom of the food chain. All you have going for you is a driver's license, phone, and literally any vehicle that moves. You don't need to be a good driver since no one sees you driving, and you don't have to interact with customers other than handing them their food! Most of these delivery app drivers don't even say hello when you answer the door or properly text you or knock when they drop off the order now that we are doing corona delivery. They are slow drivers, the food is always cold, and they don't even have to check the order. Literally following gps and drive the speed limit is all you have to do.

When a minimum wage cook has more skill and responsibility than you, your job is not very skilled or respectable.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Enjoy being overpaid for your errand boy delivery service while it lasts.


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## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

z_z_z_ said:


> No, I have plenty of job options that are open to me besides food delivery and I choose to not do food delivery for the reasons I stated.
> 
> You need an attitude adjustment.
> 
> ...


Oh, I had no idea that you are an ant that only delivers people and not stuff. My bad ...


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

jeanocelot said:


> Oh, I had no idea that you are an ant that only delivers people and not stuff. My bad ...


If you think taxi/rideshare is "delivering people" then you must be too stupid to actually talk to your pax or turn your head.

Probably one of the ants who stares at the GPS the entire time and drives the speed limit &#129315;


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

The executives of all the companies are not losing money. The poor sods financing them are. When no more of them can be found the companies shut the door. Meanwhile the executives have all enriched themselves, and then on to the next one. Dara K didn't get to be worth $200 million by going easy on the bonuses.


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