# Uber is skimming the newly created $3.00 Marketplace fee before calculating their fare percentage



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-driver-got-screwed-on-this-trip.376990/
This explains why ridership is especially down since they rolled this out. Pax are paying more money.

https://help.uber.com/riders/article/marketplace-fee?nodeId=6ab25804-80f5-4956-8ac9-53f1ac44321a
It says that only certain markets have this. I am curious if that means all CA markets. For those of you that have done rides in CA, if you can post screenies from your ride receipt it will help explain more of what is happening.


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## Nina2 (Oct 6, 2018)

I heard its due to AB5 and it goes to the ballot measure that Uber supports as Uber is paying 30 million of the 90 million with Door Dash and Lyft also paying 30 million each for the ballot measure via other ways
Not sure if its California only or not


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Nina2 said:


> I heard its due to AB5 and it goes to the ballot measure that Uber supports as Uber is paying 30 million of the 90 million with Door Dash and Lyft also paying 30 million each for the ballot measure via other ways
> Not sure if its California only or not


ummm it's due to them simply wanting more money


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

You will see similar things in other markets. Uber needs to turn a profit if the Directors want to keep their jobs. Before the Initial Public Offering, Uber was failing Capitalism 101. One of the dictates of Capitalism 101 is that the customer m ust bear the cost of doing business. Uber, and Lyft, have not been charging the customers enough money. Both firms know this. They simply gaslight it and spin it in other ways to the drivers,

Now, they must charge the customers more, but, they can not afford to give any of it to the drivers. You will see costs to the customer, however Uber and Lyft spin it, increase. The one thing that you will *not *see increase is your payoffs.

In my market, The Capital of Your Nation, the cost of a short or mediocre trip on UberX or Regular Lyft is almost the same as a cab. In fact, on some of them, the cab costs less. If there is even a mild surge/prime time (the kind where the customer pays a multiplier but the driver gets nothing), the cab is less expensive on the short and mediocre trips. It takes a factor of about 1,7 for the fare to be about the same on the longer trips. At a factor of 1,9 or greater, the cab costs less. This is one reason, out of several, why the customer no longer sees the surge factor.

Look for more increases in customer cost in every market. Uber might be doing this in California, initially, as there is a better opportunity for spin in that market than in others. Uber's experience in California should prove instructive in how it, and Lyft, can spin those increases in other markets.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-driver-got-screwed-on-this-trip.376990/
> This explains why ridership is especially down since they rolled this out. Pax are paying more money.
> 
> https://help.uber.com/riders/article/marketplace-fee?nodeId=6ab25804-80f5-4956-8ac9-53f1ac44321a
> It says that only certain markets have this. I am curious if that means all CA markets. For those of you that have done rides in CA, if you can post screenies from your ride receipt it will help explain more of what is happening.


A NEW UBER RIPOFF !


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

They changed the name of the booking fee to "marketplace fee" thats all. We never got a cut of the booking fee or the safe rider fee. 

They aren't skimming because they are taking the whole thing, as they always have.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> They changed the name of the booking fee to "marketplace fee" thats all. We never got a cut of the booking fee or the safe rider fee.
> 
> They aren't skimming because they are taking the whole thing, as they always have.


That's right. A rose by any other name.... Although as noted in the linked post the fee has gone up (goes into Uber's pocket), and the Base Fare has gone down (comes out of driver's pocket). I can only speak for my California locale though. And I am happy to see that overall my pay is up by 26-28% overall.

Note that the "$3.00" Marketplace fee was for that one short ride. I'm going to get some rider telemetry on long rides this weekend.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> In my market, The Capital of Your Nation, the cost of a short or mediocre trip on UberX or Regular Lyft is almost the same as a cab.


I've checked three markets (DC, LA, SF), and in all three, a 1 mile/3 minute taxi ride is anywhere from $1-$2 cheaper than Uber X.

Percentage wise, that's a substantial difference.

You can thank Uber's massive booking/marketplace fees for that.


Another Uber Driver said:


> Now, they must charge the customers more, but, they can not afford to give any of it to the drivers.


Afford it or not, Uber won't have any choice but to pay the drivers more if they use the destination info to screen their rides.



Another Uber Driver said:


> The one thing that you will *not *see increase is your payoffs.


That's up to the drivers.

If the drivers are smart and use the destination info to cherrypick their rides, Uber will have no choice but to pay the drivers more money or face the disastrous consequences of leaving huge numbers of pax stranded every day.

I believe that as drivers get accustomed to the destination info, even many ants will become choosier about their rides.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Uber will have no choice but to pay the drivers more money or face the disastrous consequences of leaving huge numbers of pax stranded every day.


it certainly has changed my acceptance habits. OR, really, losing AR caused an effect as well. Now, for first ping of the day it has to be at least $7 bucks or I ain't leaving comforts of home. I'm guessing my AR rate, which was right at 85% 12/2 is much less today....


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> That's up to the drivers.
> 
> If the drivers are smart and use the destination info to cherrypick their rides, Uber will have no choice but to pay the drivers more money or face the disastrous consequences of leaving huge numbers of pax stranded every day.


While I agree in theory we both know that Uber *knows* there will be ants that will take any ride for any price and going by all the ants hovering for a ride in my area there sill be no stranded pax...


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> that Uber *knows*


no. Uber HOPES there will be ants that will take every requested drive. That is kinda the point: pickup the pax and get the from Point A to Point B.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Fusion_LUser said:


> While I agree in theory we both know that Uber *knows* there will be ants that will take any ride for any price and going by all the ants hovering for a ride in my area there sill be no stranded pax...


I'm talking about the major metropolitan areas of California where Uber does the vast majority of its business.

In markets where pax are scarce, drivers won't be doing a lot of cherrypicking.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> That's right. A rose by any other name.... Although as noted in the linked post the fee has gone up (goes into Uber's pocket), and the Base Fare has gone down (comes out of driver's pocket). I can only speak for my California locale though. And I am happy to see that overall my pay is up by 26-28% overall.
> 
> Note that the "$3.00" Marketplace fee was for that one short ride. I'm going to get some rider telemetry on long rides this weekend.


And what is it you think you're going to discover?

Uber has been systematically been lower rates while raising, safe rider fees, later known as booking fees, now known in CA as marketplace fees since 2015.

The safe rider fee was 1.25 when I started here and now ranges from 2.40-7.83. Depending upon the tier ordered.

Tje 7.83 booking fee is for the new premier SUV that is replacing lux SUV. Premier is 6.21.

Lux &lux suv by the way, 2.40 booking fee.

Its not a secret they aremt hiding it. They do not consider the booking fee or marketplace fee part of the fare. We all know that it's just their way of increasing their cut but it's not new or hidden.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Well, uh, gee... I thought I would learn what the fee would be on a long ride under the new system, given that some adjustments have been made.

But you seem to be saying that is a known quantity w/o checking. So, what would the newly renamed Marketplace Fee be on, say a 25 mile X ride.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> Well, uh, gee... I thought I would learn what the fee would be on a long ride under the new system, given that some adjustments have been made.
> 
> But you seem to be saying that is a known quantity w/o checking. So, what would the newly renamed Marketplace Fee be on, say a 25 mile X ride.


3.00


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

There's a lot you have to overlook, your sanity depends on it:


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Another Uber Driver is right. They have to turn a profit and going back to the percentage structure is actually a pay _cut_. They can't just charge the pax willy nilly upfront anymore. That leaves just 2 options: pay drivers more so their percentage increases as well OR jack up the nebulous booking fee (or marketplace fee or whether they call it now. May as well call it the abracadabra fee) and take 100% of that. Based on everything we all know of Uber and their past behavior, it is a safe bet what they'll choose.

Well, I was incomplete actually. There *is* a third door and that involves exempting themselves via a new law or perhaps ballot initiative. This is the goal so they can simply go back to business as usual. They aren't stupid though. They have contingencies and this whole new system in California is just one giant experiment and data collection endeavor.


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

mrpjfresh said:


> Another Uber Driver is right. They have to turn a profit and going back to the percentage structure is actually a pay _cut_. They can't just charge the pax willy nilly upfront anymore. That leaves just 2 options: pay drivers more so their percentage increases as well OR jack up the nebulous booking fee (or marketplace fee or whether they call it now. May as well call it the abracadabra fee) and take 100% of that. Based on everything we all know of Uber and their past behavior, it is a safe bet what they'll choose.
> 
> Well, I was incomplete actually. There *is* a third door and that involves exempting themselves via a new law or perhaps ballot initiative. This is the goal so they can simply go back to business as usual. They aren't stupid though. They have contingencies and this whole new system in California is just one giant experiment and data collection endeavor.


Have they likened themselves to credit card processing companies? For the life of me I can't remember. When I google facilitator of rides I pull up a lot of unrelated legal cases. If they are simply a facilitator they should limit themselves to the nebulous booking fee. How can they justify taking an additional 30%+ from the driver?


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Funky Monkey said:


> How can they justify taking an additional 30%+ from the driver?


Well, legally they do have to provide insurance coverage to drivers on their platform. They also handle payment processing and all that instead of pax paying us directly. Airport fees are automatically payed by them on our behalf. I am forgetting a few other stuff probably. Whether this justifies a 25-30% take (or 50% outside of CA) is not for me to say though.

I honestly think it would be better for all involved (legally, profit wise) if they _were_ simply a booking agent and drivers were truly independent with their own merchant accounts, commercial insurance, permitting etc. but the laws on rideshare aren't written like that. Of course, these same laws were mainly lobbied for and partly crafted by Uber and Lyft.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

mrpjfresh said:


> Well, legally they do have to provide insurance coverage to drivers on their platform. They also handle payment processing and all that instead of pax paying us directly. Airport fees are automatically payed by them on our behalf. I am forgetting a few other stuff probably. Whether this justifies a 25-30% take (or 50% outside of CA) is not for me to say though.
> 
> I honestly think it would be better for all involved (legally, profit wise) if they _were_ simply a booking agent and drivers were truly independent with their own merchant accounts, commercial insurance, permitting etc. but the laws on rideshare aren't written like that. Of course, these same laws were mainly lobbied for and partly crafted by Uber and Lyft.


Precisely. 
AB5 enjoyed superhero status though it had uber/Lyft fingerprints all over it from the jump.
News flash!!!
Ridesharing was N-E-V-E-R going to be on the losing end. That role has forever been assigned to drivers.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> I've checked three markets (DC, LA, SF), and in all three, a 1 mile/3 minute taxi ride is anywhere from $1-$2 cheaper than Uber X.
> 
> Percentage wise, that's a substantial difference.


It is................Did you do any calculations on a three mile/ten minute cab ride vs. the same on UberX/Lyft? In an urban setting, that might be a bit generous, but, if you accept the urban traffic figure of eighteen to twenty two miles per hour, go with the median of twenty, add a minute, you might get close.

In our market, from the old Walter Reed to LaFayette Park is 4,2 miles. Three miles from LaFayette Park would land you somewhere around Sixteenth and Military. You could do that in ten minutes from about Ten P.M. to Five A.M. (on weekdays), but, at any other time, you would be hard put to do it in less than fifteen minutes; closer to twenty. In P.M. Rush, it is likely at least thirty.

I am simply curious. Good reply, though.



Funky Monkey said:


> Have they likened themselves to credit card processing companies?


They have..............in fact, Uber got into hot water with the New York TLC over Uber Taxi because of it. There is a taxicab credit card processing oligopoly up there. Uber had not paid to get onto the "approved" list. Uber was reduced to having the UberT (its name in New York) useful only to summon your cab. You had to pay the driver. This defeated half the purpose of Uber. When applications came from the "approved" credit card processors, UberT became superfluous, so Uber dropped it.

There is a taxicab credit card processing oligopoly in my market, as well. Despite that, Uber simply gets around it. It does help that certain parties in this whole thing want Uber to continue to offer the taxis here.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

IR12 said:


> Ridesharing was N-E-V-E-R going to be on the losing end. That role has forever been assigned to drivers.


........as long as drivers continue to chauffeur Uber's paying customers,
driver earnings will continue to decrease.

as @Nats121 has so eloquently stated:

The problem isn't Uber
The Problem is the drivers ✔

New Ballot Measure Targeting California's AB5 Gains Steam

A California measure that would allow app-based drivers to work independently while providing them with benefits has collected about one-third of the signatures needed to qualify for the November ballot, intensifying pressure against AB5, the controversial state law limiting the use of contract labor.

Funded by gig economy giants Uber Technologies Inc (NYSE: UBER), Lyft Inc (NASDAQ: LYFT), and DoorDash, the Protect App-Based Drivers & Services Act focuses on drivers who work for rideshare or restaurant and grocery delivery services such as DoorDash and UberEats. It does not cover owner-operators in trucking, as that employment structure is "a completely different model" from app-based work, campaign spokesperson Stacey Wells explained to FreightWaves.

https://m.benzinga.com/article/1526...oogle.com/&utm_source=https://www.google.com/


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Did you do any calculations on a three mile/ten minute cab ride vs. the same on UberX/Lyft? In an urban setting, that might be a bit generous, but, if you accept the urban traffic figure of eighteen to twenty two miles per hour, go with the median of twenty, add a minute, you might get close.


Because of Uber's elimination of upfront pricing in California, obtaining reliable fare info has become very difficult.

I'm pretty sure that Uber costs between $1 and $2 more than a taxi for a 1 mile / 3 minute ride in LA and SF, but due to the lack of reliable fare info, any price comparsion between taxis and Uber for a 3 mile ride would be unreliable.

In DC, a three mile/ten minute taxi ride is approx $9.50-$9.75 / For Uber X @ "list price" it would be around $9.50

Throw traffic jams into the mix and the taxi would be higher than Uber X if no surge is present because of the taxi's higher per minute rate.

Throwing traffic jams AND Uber surge into the mix would require various scenario calculations that I'm too lazy to do.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

My question was more out of curiosity than anything else.



Nats121 said:


> Because of Uber's elimination of upfront pricing in California, obtaining reliable fare info has become very difficult.


..........if for no other reason than you can apply the old saw about no two passengers on the same aeroplane who paid the same fare to Uber/Lyft...........



Nats121 said:


> I'm pretty sure that Uber costs between $1 and $2 more than a taxi for a 1 mile / 3 minute ride in LA and SF, but due to the lack of reliable fare info, any price comparsion between taxis and Uber for a 3 mile ride would be unreliable.


.........especially if you add to that a lack of familiarity with local conditions, traffic and geography. You are not quite at that disadvantage in your own market.....................................



Nats121 said:


> In DC, a three mile/ten minute taxi ride is approx $9.50-$9.75 / For Uber X @ "list price" it would be around $9.50


That appears to be close to it, if not accurate.



Nats121 said:


> Throw traffic jams into the mix and the taxi would be higher than Uber X if no surge is present because of the taxi's higher per minute rate.


Even in mid-day traffic, you would pay a cab driver thirteen to fifteen dollars from LaFayette Park to Sixteenth at Military. UberX "list price"laugh would be something on the order of twelve to thirteen and change at that time of day. Odds are that you would see the surge only between 4:30 and 7 P.M.. On a mild surge, it would be about the same, on anything more than 1,5, the cab would be less.



Nats121 said:


> Throwing traffic jams AND Uber surge into the mix would require various scenario calculations that I'm too lazy to do.


Indeed, the number of variables would consume an inordinate amount of time in the calculation. Further, you would have to bounce your figures off those with experience, analyse, discuss, revise. By the time that you are finished, someone's fare structure could have changed, rendering the whole exercise useless.


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## Jagaban (Dec 5, 2018)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> That's right. A rose by any other name.... Although as noted in the linked post the fee has gone up (goes into Uber's pocket), and the Base Fare has gone down (comes out of driver's pocket). I can only speak for my California locale though. And I am happy to see that overall my pay is up by 26-28% overall.
> 
> Note that the "$3.00" Marketplace fee was for that one short ride. I'm going to get some rider telemetry on long rides this weekend.


Yoooo the marketplace fee is not fixed. Took a ride today, "Paid to you" was 25$ and rider said she was charged 37$, marketplace fee which was the only thing missing in dashboard is 12$ lol. I made 18$ from the trip after service fee. Uber still takes half or more of the rider fare. See how they change the terminology from rider payment to paid to you. If you read the new fare addendum released on Jan 6th, the shaddiness is written all over it with twisted terminologies smh. I also feel its the cause for reduced surge as well, we have no idea how marketplace fee is being calculate. Uber could simply raise it when demand is high and not give us any surge. Simple


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