# It was never supposed to be a full time thing



## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they’re giving you an opinion. That’s not what I’m interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it’s not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I’m not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it’s for both full time and part time. I don’t recall the company saying we don’t suggest this full time. 

As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you’re not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I’m not taking sides. But don’t jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

I've never seen them advertise for full time drivers ???

No, Uber never said it wasn't supposed to be a full time gig in it's literal sense but this is where common sense is supposed to prevail.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Pax Collector said:


> I've never seen them advertise for full time drivers ???
> 
> No, Uber never said it wasn't supposed to be a full time gig in it's literal sense but this is where common sense is supposed to prevail.


Well they kinda do advertise for full time drivers because when you sign up sometimes you have to drive like a maniac to get the promotions. And if you wanna continually get the promotions you have to drive like crazy. And they always text you non stop multiple times a day to get them.

What they could do is just get rid of the ridiculous promotions. Or the deadline. Because in order to get them you have to be full time. And the company also has forces you to have good ratings. If they didn't want you to do all those rides they wouldn't have incentives like Uber gold.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

no 401K, no vacation days, no leave days ,no Overtime Pay, no Holiday pay, no union, no real job security (you can lose your driving privileges in an instant with one false report), and your pay can be zapped in half with one software update

Yep this sounds like a job I wouldn't do "Full Time" unless you are reinventing what a full time job actually means.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Uber wore a 20 million dollar fine for telling drivers they could earn 100ks per year driving for Uber. Pretty sure that implies it's a full-time job. A career. A Screw college 100ks per year job. 

Uber could not survive with part time drivers.

Uber suggests it's a part time gig then suggest only let drivers log in 20 hours per week and watch Dara choke on his scotch. 

Uber needs most of its work force driving full time. Part timers are the ones who turn over quickest being the ones who tend have other options.


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## LoveBC (May 16, 2017)

Early Uber ads claimed $90k per year

Uber in its original incarnation was for livery drivers only.

The side gig narrative was created once rates were slashed to justify the low pay.

The question is why would anyone put their safety in the hands of someone who just views this as beer money.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

I've been doing it full time for 3 years 
making way more money than most 
jobs I could have been hired for.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I just ignore those people. There will always be shills or total morons around.

It really doesn't make sense. It isn't good part time either when you only get one $3 ride an hour. The same issues at full time also exist at part time.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> Uber wore a 20 million dollar fine for telling drivers they could earn 100ks per year driving for Uber. Pretty sure that implies it's a full-time job. A career. A Screw college 100ks per year job.
> 
> Uber could not survive with part time drivers.
> 
> ...


Dara drinks wine spritzers.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


Will chime in on this a tad; however, not interested in solving a puzzle, or even presenting an argument. So, not going to counter the other side, or post documentation.

With that being said, I started four years ago and knew, right out of the gate, this job works ONLY as supplemental, part time and/or extra income. Cannot conceive it any other way.

However, do know Uber presents many things to "tee this up" as potential fulltime. These arguments can get extremely emotional; so, totally staying away from it.

From the beginning, just the name, "rideshare" tells me it's supplemental, extra income only. It wouldn't even work, for me, as a real part time job.

"Rideshare", to me, means just that. Sharing vehicle I already own, and am paying for, to earn some extra cash. Most of the television commercials, I saw, several years ago stated earn $300 - 600/week using your own car, in your spare time.

Started in 2014, with a two year old vehicle paid for. Am an investor, with several income streams, and did not need the money to pay, for my car nor any living expenses whatsoever.

The end game was to payoff several mortgages on income property I owned. Therefore, 90%+ of rideshare earnings went for that purpose.

Result: After 2 1/2 years paid off over $100K, in loans, netting a savings of more than $1,000/mo. That's residual income that will last a lifetime. Now it really is strictly "fun money".

But no, can't imagine it would ever work as fulltime. However, totally understand others may view this differently.

Thanks for listening.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)




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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

njn said:


>


Okay big deal?

As stated at the beginning of my post, do care, at all, about this. And no am not going to post documentation or provide one shred of evidence.

Why? Because, as I stated, merely relating my perspective, on rideshare, and how it works on my end. Totally aware these ads were posted; however, would never believe them nor do I recall seeing them.

So, there's two completely different perspectives, regarding this gig, and am not even going to attempt to solve. My money's made and it's up to Uber, and their drivers, to figure out.

So whatever works, or doesn't, for you is cool. Good luck with whatever you do.
?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

The debate will always rage as to whether Uber is a full-time gig, or merely a supplemental source of income.

I guess that's why this "job" is something I don't mind doing, because it can be whatever I choose it to be. My actual W-2 job is working in fleet logistics/re-marketing for a rental car company. During June and July we get very slow, and since my position is on-call, my hours there went from 30 per week down to 15 per week. Because Uber doesn't issue me a weekly schedule, I was able to backfill those lost hours from the rental car company with my earnings from Uber.

Yes. The mileage rates are lousy, and the wear and tear on your vehicle is incalculable. However, I was able to keep all my bills paid during the slow time at my other job. Uber is legitimate income. Not great income, and perhaps not full-time income...but without it, I'd be in the hole.

As with any job, I can choose to walk away when I feel it no longer serves my best interests. I've done that with dozens of jobs in the past, and I will do it with Uber should the facts ever lead me in that direction.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


The mist successful drivers here seem to be the ones with a real job and then they do rideshare as a side hustle.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

touberornottouber said:


> I just ignore those people. There will always be shills or total morons around.
> 
> It really doesn't make sense. It isn't good part time either when you only get one $3 ride an hour. The same issues at full time also exist at part time.


I'm surprised there are so many who bought their kool aid/ads/marketing. Like seeeeriously.



goneubering said:


> The mist successful drivers here seem to be the ones with a real job and then they do rideshare as a side hustle.


Yep, thats the magic combo.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> Uber needs most of its work force driving full time. Part timers are the ones who turn over quickest being the ones who tend have other options.


Throttling in my market makes it a part time gig.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

goneubering said:


> The mist successful drivers here seem to be the ones with a real job and then they do rideshare as a side hustle.


Ironically, my "real job" isn't even a real job...but it does allow me to earn additional money without beating the Hell out of my own car. If you can find that balance between a W-2 income and revenue from Uber/Lyft, it makes doing this so much easier. Some people insist they can only drive rideshare, and that should be enough. End of story. Unfortunately, that sort of mental inflexibility quite literally drives these people nuts.

Uber should not be regarded as a full-time gig. People who buy into the belief that it is, are walking right into the imperilment of a false assumption.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

rkozy said:


> The debate will always rage as to whether Uber is a full-time gig, or merely a supplemental source of income.
> 
> I guess that's why this "job" is something I don't mind doing, because it can be whatever I choose it to be. My actual W-2 job is working in fleet logistics/re-marketing for a rental car company. During June and July we get very slow, and since my position is on-call, my hours there went from 30 per week down to 15 per week. Because Uber doesn't issue me a weekly schedule, I was able to backfill those lost hours from the rental car company with my earnings from Uber.
> 
> ...


That's spot on the way it works for me. I own/manage two corporations as well as multiple miscellaneous investments.

Even a part time, 10 hour/week job, would not work for me. Need to be able to sign off, and tend to business, on a moment's notice.

We all have our complaints about Uber, myself included. But as a supplemental income vehicle, Uber's as good as it gets. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks for listening and good luck with everything.
?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> We all have our complaints about Uber, myself included. But as a supplemental income vehicle, Uber's as good as it gets. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


That's the fundamental truth about Uber. It's income on your own schedule and your own terms. Don't want to work weekends or evenings? Uber will never make you! Don't want to let that scummy person into your vehicle? Hit "cancel" and move on to the next ping.

There's no job which will allow you to make executive decisions like that. I'm not totally satisfied with Uber's pay rates, but I'm willing to settle for less money if I'm allowed more control in return. That's what I have with Uber...More control over my day.


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## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Will chime in on this a tad; however, not interested in solving a puzzle, or even presenting an argument. So, not going to counter the other side, or post documentation.
> 
> With that being said, I started four years ago and knew, right out of the gate, this job works ONLY as supplemental, part time and/or extra income. Cannot conceive it any other way.
> 
> ...


Similar ballpark here, nonetheless .. well stated


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Could you do ride share full time as your only source of income? Sure, in 2 scenarios: one, you drive 80 hours a week, or two, you have your finances perfectly in order - no debt, paid for car, cheap rent, no kids, etc.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts.


Literal facts? LOL.

I think you are in the wrong forum.

.


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## RioRoja (Mar 13, 2017)

I've been making this work as a full-time gig for close to 5 years. In late 2014, I started out doing only UberX and Lyft in my 2010 Ford Escape, and at about the one year mark of doing this full time, I sort of admitted to myself, "okay I guess this is what I do now..." and bought a 2014 Ford Transit Connect minivan which added UberXL, LyftXL and UberSelect to the mix. In mid 2017, I bought a 2013 Infiniti JX35 (renamed QX60 in 2014) which added Lyft Lux, Lyft Lux Black and Lyft Lux Black XL to the mix, and then just this summer, I bought a 2016 Lincoln Navigator L, got my PUC LL (luxury limousine) permit and can now do Uber Black & SUV as well as private rides.









For the money, this is the easiest thing I've ever done, and after completing over 12,000 trips, this gig still doesn't feel like work. I'm in my mid-50s and am as healthy and fit as ever: I never set my alarm and get plenty of sleep; the flexibility allows me to hit the gym at non-peak times; I cook most of what I eat, eat healthy and clean, and weigh about what I did in my early 20s. Although I usually drive 7 days a week - and almost exclusively as a day driver - I still only average around 50 hours each week, and I don't need a "side gig" to supplement my income.

Unlike the vast majority of folks who get into this gig without any sort of clue on what it means to be a 1099 sub-contractor, I've been in business for myself for most of the past 30 years and am completely able to wrap my head around the financial mechanics of being self employed. It also helps that I have both technology background and financial services background, so I'm able to put my nerd brain to good use to make this gig work for me.

As a PUC-permitted black car driver who still does mostly Uber and Lyft, I'm now averaging about $35/hour after gas and tolls. As you can see from August spreadsheet data, I have both shit days (highlighted in yellow) which are offset by kick ass days (highlighted in green), and asI've posted many times in the Denver forum, it all averages out.









And here are my monthly and annual numbers since 2017.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> Uber wore a 20 million dollar fine for telling drivers they could earn 100ks per year driving for Uber. Pretty sure that implies it's a full-time job. A career. A Screw college 100ks per year job.
> 
> Uber could not survive with part time drivers.
> 
> ...


I remember Uber and Lyft advertised for full time drivers for a few years.

It was maybe 2 years ago they started to advertise more for part timers. "Get your side hustle on" ads.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Will chime in on this a tad; however, not interested in solving a puzzle, or even presenting an argument. So, not going to counter the other side, or post documentation.
> 
> With that being said, I started four years ago and knew, right out of the gate, this job works ONLY as supplemental, part time and/or extra income. Cannot conceive it any other way.
> 
> ...


No one invests in part time 70 Trillion valuation
" car pools' !


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## EphLux (Aug 10, 2018)

Lyft Power Driver Bonuses 7 days 160 rides
Uber Quest Bonuses 4 days 80 rides + 3 days 70 rides

That's advertising. 

That's a 70 hour work week also. That's MORE than full time. That's two full time jobs.


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


It is important that you remember that as an Independent Contractor, you work when you want to work and quit when you want to quit. You can only work 12 hours a day before being shut down for your 6 hour sleep. Whether you call it part time or full time is up to you. This is the beauty of Rideshare. It's up to you. You set the tone and set the hours. When you start counting the cash you have made and earned, less expenses, then it all comes together


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

RioRoja said:


> I've been making this work as a full-time gig for close to 5 years. In late 2014, I started out doing only UberX and Lyft in my 2010 Ford Escape, and at about the one year mark of doing this full time, I sort of admitted to myself, "okay I guess this is what I do now..." and bought a 2014 Ford Transit Connect minivan which added UberXL, LyftXL and UberSelect to the mix. In mid 2017, I bought a 2013 Infiniti JX35 (renamed QX60 in 2014) which added Lyft Lux, Lyft Lux Black and Lyft Lux Black XL to the mix, and then just this summer, I bought a 2016 Lincoln Navigator L, got my PUC LL (luxury limousine) permit and can now do Uber Black & SUV as well as private rides.
> 
> View attachment 353358
> 
> ...


The only thing I'm jealous of is that you get pings 50+ hours a week. Your market must not be saturated, or its the fact you are driving XL/black.

Well, and the fact you are still getting $1/mi for UberX.

Its easy to be good in a good market.


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## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Cdub2k said:


> no 401K, no vacation days, no leave days ,no Overtime Pay, no Holiday pay, no union, no real job security (you can lose your driving privileges in an instant with one false report), and your pay can be zapped in half with one software update
> 
> Yep this sounds like a job I wouldn't do "Full Time" unless you are reinventing what a full time job actually means.


Welcome to the world of self employed.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


It's not a part time thing either if you can't get paid for your work and all the money goes towards car expenses since they pay so little.


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## OldUncleDave (Apr 22, 2019)

You need to remember that we are all in different cities, states, countries. UBER is trying to set up a National pay policy that attracts drivers in both NYC and Fresno, CA. Can't be done.

AB5, here in CA, will destroy the Rideshare, and contractor, industries. This has been going on since the 80s, the state trying to eliminate the option of work for hire companies. Usually, the Federal tax code supersedes the state and the status quo remains. Not sure about this law, but past is future.

If UBER must assign work hours, I'm out. If they can keep my option of work hours, I'm good.


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## RioRoja (Mar 13, 2017)

OldBay said:


> The only thing I'm jealous of is that you get pings 50+ hours a week. Your market must not be saturated, or its the fact you are driving XL/black.
> 
> Well, and the fact you are still getting $1/mi for UberX.
> 
> Its easy to be good in a good market.


Apparently the fact that I'm a snappy dresser doesn't hurt either!


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

"*It was never supposed to be a full time thing"*

That's what she said.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

RioRoja said:


> I've been making this work as a full-time gig for close to 5 years. In late 2014, I started out doing only UberX and Lyft in my 2010 Ford Escape, and at about the one year mark of doing this full time, I sort of admitted to myself, "okay I guess this is what I do now..." and bought a 2014 Ford Transit Connect minivan which added UberXL, LyftXL and UberSelect to the mix. In mid 2017, I bought a 2013 Infiniti JX35 (renamed QX60 in 2014) which added Lyft Lux, Lyft Lux Black and Lyft Lux Black XL to the mix, and then just this summer, I bought a 2016 Lincoln Navigator L, got my PUC LL (luxury limousine) permit and can now do Uber Black & SUV as well as private rides.
> 
> View attachment 353358
> 
> ...


Agreed.

I do very well, driving private livery, black and SUV.

I would not drive x at the current rates.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

RioRoja said:


> I've been making this work as a full-time gig for close to 5 years. In late 2014, I started out doing only UberX and Lyft in my 2010 Ford Escape, and at about the one year mark of doing this full time, I sort of admitted to myself, "okay I guess this is what I do now..." and bought a 2014 Ford Transit Connect minivan which added UberXL, LyftXL and UberSelect to the mix. In mid 2017, I bought a 2013 Infiniti JX35 (renamed QX60 in 2014) which added Lyft Lux, Lyft Lux Black and Lyft Lux Black XL to the mix, and then just this summer, I bought a 2016 Lincoln Navigator L, got my PUC LL (luxury limousine) permit and can now do Uber Black & SUV as well as private rides.
> 
> View attachment 353358
> 
> ...


Very impressive. ?


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

R3drang3r said:


> Welcome to the world of self employed.


You cannot be deactivated from your own business. 
Uber isn't self employment


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> I've never seen them advertise for full time drivers ???
> 
> No, Uber never said it wasn't supposed to be a full time gig in it's literal sense but this is where common sense is supposed to prevail.


Even if it wasn't supposed to be full time which is not true anyway, saying someone doesn't deserve a fair wage is messed up. Part time or full time a fair wage is deserved. Also does anyone ask passengers for tips? Where does Uber stand on that? I'm tired of people not tipping. I have about 12000 rides and am fed up with cheap bartenders and servers and many many others who don't tip. Some advice please?


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Hopindrew said:


> Even if it wasn't supposed to be full time which is not true anyway, saying someone doesn't deserve a fair wage is messed up. Part time or full time a fair wage is deserved. Also does anyone ask passengers for tips? Where does Uber stand on that? I'm tired of people not tipping. I have about 12000 rides and am fed up with cheap bartenders and servers and many many others who don't tip. Some advice please?


@gooddolphins

Help a fellow driver out

https://uberpeople.net/threads/tips.349745/
Hope you don't mind me being direct @Hopindrew
I prefer that then indirect.
Kid at heart not in nature.

Also full disclosure I'm not a driver but, I do tip the drivers cash now thanks to UP.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> Even if it wasn't supposed to be full time which is not true anyway, saying someone doesn't deserve a fair wage is messed up. Part time or full time a fair wage is deserved. Also does anyone ask passengers for tips? Where does Uber stand on that? I'm tired of people not tipping. I have about 12000 rides and am fed up with cheap bartenders and servers and many many others who don't tip. Some advice please?


Uber doesn't have an official stand on it.

However, uber's "contempt for drivers" attitude puts you at risk of being fired if a paxhole reports you for asking for a tip.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Uber doesn't have an official stand on it.
> 
> However, uber's "contempt for drivers" attitude puts you at risk of being fired if an paxhole reports you for asking for a tip.


So saying there's an option to tip on the app would be a better thing to say?



Hopindrew said:


> So saying there's an option to tip on the app would be a better thing to say?


One guy tried to tip me 100 over and over but app wouldn't allow it. It was a minimum fare ride. Another guy tried to tip me 20 but app wouldn't allow either. So much for being an independent contractor with Uber taking so much control over us. They like keeping us needing don't they?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> So saying there's an option to tip on the app would be a better thing to say?


Maybe, depending on the pax.

Drivers ask for tips in different ways. Many use tipping signs attached to the seat backs, which is probably safer than asking verbally.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Hopindrew said:


> Even if it wasn't supposed to be full time which is not true anyway, saying someone doesn't deserve a fair wage is messed up. Part time or full time a fair wage is deserved. Also does anyone ask passengers for tips? Where does Uber stand on that? I'm tired of people not tipping. I have about 12000 rides and am fed up with cheap bartenders and servers and many many others who don't tip. Some advice please?


QUIT DRIVING.

As staunch Free Market Capitalist, do not believe anyone, particularly Uber, owes you a living wage or a tip.

You need to earn that on your own.

My two cents.
?


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I remember Uber and Lyft advertised for full time drivers for a few years.
> 
> It was maybe 2 years ago they started to advertise more for part timers. "Get your side hustle on" ads.


Yea I remember the side hustle. But you can't just do a bait and switch. You have to be consistent.



MiamiKid said:


> QUIT DRIVING.
> 
> As staunch Free Market Capitalist, do not believe anyone, particularly Uber, owes you a living wage or a tip.
> 
> ...


But I don't think the point is that Uber owes anyone. But they do owe honesty and consistency. They advertised it full time and then started saying side hustle. That seems like a bait and switch.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> QUIT DRIVING.
> 
> As staunch Free Market Capitalist, do not believe anyone, particularly Uber, owes you a living wage or a tip.
> 
> ...


You're reply is childish and irrelevant considering it's just about impossible to earn a decent wage with Uber's business model. And don't cry too hard when Ab5 is passed on the 12th and signed by the governor. Then you won't be able to collect your government benefits and work Uber at the same time. Good luck you're going to need it


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Hopindrew said:


> You're reply is childish and irrelevant considering it's just about impossible to earn a decent wage with Uber's business model. And don't cry too hard when Ab5 is passed on the 12th and signed by the governor. Then you won't be able to collect your government benefits and work Uber at the same time. Good luck you're going to need it


Am doing very well. Thank you. You people supporting this bill are looking at it from one side only. You're not, at all, considering that there's two sides to this argument.

Moreover, you do not know other folk's, such as myself, situation regarding Uber. Your response, as it relates to me, was 100% false. A lie in other words.

And very ignorant, on your part, to state you know my situation. You don't. But it should very obvious to, "you people", that Uber, in fact works great for some of us. And for you to say what does, or doesn't, work for me is where I draw a firm line with you.

Will continue calling your lies out.

My two cents.
?

BTW: My money's made and residual's coming in.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Am doing very well. Thank you. You people supporting this bill are looking at it from one side only. You're not, at all, considering that there's two sides to this argument.
> 
> Moreover, you do not know other folk's, such as myself, situation regarding Uber. Your response, as it relates to me, was 100% false. A lie in other words.
> 
> ...


Your 2 cents are irrelevant as your battle to receive welfare benefits and work at the same time will come to a huge loss for you. Again good luck, you're going to need it. ?



MiamiKid said:


> Am doing very well. Thank you. You people supporting this bill are looking at it from one side only. You're not, at all, considering that there's two sides to this argument.
> 
> Moreover, you do not know other folk's, such as myself, situation regarding Uber. Your response, as it relates to me, was 100% false. A lie in other words.
> 
> ...


Oh and by the way people like you on this forum are so easy to pick out. You don't deserve the benefits you are stealing while working Uber. People like you should be prosecuted.


----------



## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


What I'll say on this. is these rideshare companies (particularly Uber) at one time used to state in their advertisements that you can "be your own boss".

Now, when you hear the statement "be your own boss" I don't think too many people hear that statement and go "Oh great! I can't wait to be my own PART time boss!" If you hear those words be your own boss, it generally insinuates that that's something you'll push full time. There's no point in being a part time your own boss, because if that's the case then in order to sustain yourself in most of North America you'll need to have another job where you aren't your own boss on the side to make it ends meet.

Most things that advertise "be your own boss" are generally pushing committed ventures where the idea is you leave the 1 full time job you're doing or 2 part time jobs you're doing or something crazier than that to live that life that you want. A life where you can go to work when you want, vacation when you want without some boss saying "oh you can't go on vacation because the other 2 IT guys are gone for July" and so on.

Now, sure it makes sense that anyone should have done their research on Uber and Lyft to see that these were not going to be long sustainable full time jobs and that they were just gigs at best. The closest they could get to full time for a large mass of people is just giving people who got fired, laid off or voluntarily left other jobs they couldn't stand anymore something new that basically would hire them as long as they had a car and a driver's license. It did essentially create an unprecedented way to get into something you COULD do full time without much issue at all and "no boss or worrying about vacation".

With that said, in general I think it's easy for the masses to see "be your own boss" and figure that generally that means pushing a full time job. That's just how it goes. Most other jobs that push this know they can't really sell you on being your own part time boss, because you can't really sustain yourself on that. You have to have it be your daily committed job to make it what "be your own boss" means. I just don't think too many people hear "be your own boss" and think about only working 15 hours a week while they work their gas station job 40 hours a week still.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> You need to earn that on your own.
> 
> My two cents.
> ?


 Coming from taxi driver Miami kid. What degree did you earn to make yourself so laughable?


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Hopindrew said:


> Your 2 cents are irrelevant as your battle to receive welfare benefits and work at the same time will come to a huge loss for you. Again good luck, you're going to need it. ?
> 
> 
> Oh and by the way people like you on this forum are so easy to pick out. You don't deserve the benefits you are stealing while working Uber. People like you should be prosecuted.


Insecure? Jealous much?
?


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Insecure? Jealous much?
> ?


 Of course we are insecure and you are the patriot taxicab driver kid contributing to the growth of America's future.


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

To me, the most important aspect is this... 
How can any job be a good financial endeavor 10 hours a week, but not good for 40-50 hours a week? It makes no sense. Either it's a good profit per hour or it isn't. There should be no middle ground.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

XPG said:


> Coming from taxi driver Miami kid. What degree did you earn to make yourself so laughable?


Miami kid is exactly what he is a kid with no life experience no knowledge but feels the need to push his no knowledge beliefs. I get young garbage like him in my car everyday.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Cdub2k said:


> You cannot be deactivated from your own business.
> Uber isn't self employment


An independent electrical contractor may be frequently used by a general contractor, but that general contractor can stop using that electrical contractor at any time for any reason. Same concept. That electrical contractor just has to find someone else with whom to contract.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

BigSlick said:


> To me, the most important aspect is this...
> How can any job be a good financial endeavor 10 hours a week, but not good for 40-50 hours a week? It makes no sense. Either it's a good profit per hour or it isn't. There should be no middle ground.


You can't seriously figure that out?

Let me tell right now, rather strongly. And anyone who doesn't get it, is an idiot. Most of us know our own financial situation.

Can state, for 100% certainty, YOU do not know my situation. Period. Could I prove that? Darn right. Would wager any amount.

If I say something works for me, it works for me. Period. Nobody else, particularly YOU, are not going to tell me what works, or doesn't, for myself?

And I'm not going to say, or even have a clue, what works or doesn't, for you.

Why "you people" are saying it doesn't work for anybody is insulting, uneducated and seriously lower class.

Clean it up.



BigSlick said:


> To me, the most important aspect is this...
> How can any job be a good financial endeavor 10 hours a week, but not good for 40-50 hours a week? It makes no sense. Either it's a good profit per hour or it isn't. There should be no middle ground.


You have such a blue collar, working class attitude.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Am doing very well. Thank you. You people supporting this bill are looking at it from one side only. You're not, at all, considering that there's two sides to this argument.
> 
> Moreover, you do not know other folk's, such as myself, situation regarding Uber. Your response, as it relates to me, was 100% false. A lie in other words.
> 
> ...


You constantly claim to be a financially secure success, yet by your own admission you come here for the enjoyment of reading posts from disgruntled drivers.

The fact you've got nothing better to do than being a troll trying to get drivers stirred up makes you a pathetic loser.



Tarvus said:


> An independent electrical contractor may be frequently used by a general contractor, but that general contractor can stop using that electrical contractor at any time for any reason. Same concept. That electrical contractor just has to find someone else with whom to contract.


More than likely that "independent electrical contractor" is a temporary employee of the general contractor.

Misclassification of employees is widespread in this country.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Tarvus said:


> An independent electrical contractor may be frequently used by a general contractor, but that general contractor can stop using that electrical contractor at any time for any reason. Same concept. That electrical contractor just has to find someone else with whom to contract.


 What if the general contractor is powerful enough to decide what other electrical contractors can be available?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

tmart said:


> 3 years ago the money was really good, two years ago it was pretty good, last year it was decent, but now, I wouldn't advise this to anyone ft, except in an emergency while you're looking for something else, that is reasonable but that's it.


For the vast majority of drivers, the money's been poor since the massive rate cuts of 2014-15.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

There are plenty of W-2 jobs that aren't necessarily designed to be long-term, full-time gigs meant to support a comfortable lifestyle. Most people who wait tables or stock shelves aren't in a wage bracket that will let them buy a house and live with no financial worries. Should Applebee's and Wal-Mart stop advertising their positions, because the jobs they are offering may not pay enough to keep one financially secure?

Before ride share came along, taxi companies were notorious for hiring low-skill (often non-English-speaking) labor and paying a wage that many would regard as marginal. Uber just converted that low-paying job into a freelance gig, while relegating the duties of ride dispatching through a smartphone app.

I worked in radio broadcasting for 15 years. I loved the work, but the pay was lousy and opportunities were dwindling due to consolidation and automation. I decided to get out because the industry was being irrevocably damaged. For those who are hoping to make a comfortable living from ride share, it's time to read the writing on the wall. This isn't an industry which is going to move in that direction. Ever.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

rkozy said:


> Uber just converted that low-paying job into a freelance gig


"Freelance" when there's only two companies that act as one?

You've got a strange definition of freelance.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

XPG said:


> What if the general contractor is powerful enough to decide what other electrical contractors can be available?


Huh?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

LoveBC said:


> The side gig narrative was created once rates were slashed to justify the low pay.


The side-gig narrative was created to prevent the govt from regulating rideshare and possibly classifying drivers as employees.

Both companies have been justifiably worried that if the govt becomes aware of how heavily dependent both companies are on poorly paid full time drivers (most of whom qualify for public assistance), the govt will step in and regulate rideshare, including possibly classifying drivers as employees.

NYC and AB5 in California are examples.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Uber (and Lyft) are lying maniplative con artists. They will say WHATEVER they think will make them more money, whether it is legal or not. Consequences? Maybe deal with them later, if ever.

"Is this a part time job?"
Uber: Oh yes, absolutely! This is a fantastic part time job!

"Is this a full time job?"
Uber: For sure, anyone can do this full time! Be your own boss! Unlimited income potential!

"Does this pay well?"
Uber: We pay the majority of the fare to the driver, so the more you drive, the more you make! The pay is fantastic!

"If there is a problem, will Uber support me?"
Uber: Are you kidding? We have dedicated 24/7 driver support teams working around the world, JUST for drivers!

"If I cancel a ride will I get in trouble?"
Uber: Oh no, of course not! You are free to decide which rides you take or do not take. Your safety is our number one priority!

"Is my identification and information safe with you?"
Uber: Yes, very safe, we take extreme measures to protect your identify from theft.

"Should I buy a new car to do Uber?"
Uber: Top rated drivers have found that having a newer vehicle increases passenger satisfaction tremendously, which in turn leads to greater tips. A newer vehicle would most definitely help you make more money.

(hopefully you get the idea)

So... to answer the question... did Uber ever say this was a full time job? Yes, they did. Many times. To millions of people.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Mista T said:


> "Is this a full time job?"
> Uber: For sure, anyone can do this full time! Be your own boss! Unlimited income potential!


Being the lying con artists they are and with AB5 hanging over their heads, I would say that any talk of rideshare being a full time job is heavily discouraged and probably forbidden by uber employees.

I saw an uber exec on TV a few months ago say that rideshare isn't meant to be a full time job.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Tarvus said:


> Huh?


Ok let me explain as if i explain someone who has no clue about what we do. Let's say you are that general contractor aka Uber aka America's most hated company. You get this part?

I'm a cab driver, work full time in San Diego. This is the career path I've chosen. I'm a cab driver. Full time. You get this part?

Some trust fund babies with millennial names and fancy job titles changed the cab driver job title. Now they call taxicab drivers independent contractors as if they work in the construction to build some project. They call the taxicab business as rideshare gig. What is gig? Cab drivers used to go to gigs to pick up people after the concerts? Now gig is also called for taxi drivers? Why? Taxi driver was not cool enough for those tech-savy fast rising millennials with no job experiences? This taxi driving business was meant to be a full-time job for decades. Who gave you the right to destroy one industry, and re-build a new one on top with your own rules in which full time working is not permitted.

I still drive the same people from point a to point B though. Everything same. The only difference is my earning and the new taxi dispatch application called Uber.

Now tell me again. Where am I supposed to go and work if that general contractor stop using me as an independent contractor? Go work for other taxi cab companies? Which ones? Did you not know the fact that Uber operate at loss to undercut the competition? And hire the most greedy lawyers of the United States for the antitrust lawsuits against Uber and his ugly sister called Lyft?


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

I started Uber and Lyft In 2014 and stopped in 2016, I always thought of ride share as a part time gig just to make a few bucks. When I started it was a 80/20 split then they changed everything to miles and minutes. Drivers that do ride share full time are the main ones who really keep these companies going, Us part timers come and go.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> "Freelance" when there's only two companies that act as one?
> 
> You've got a strange definition of freelance.


I can work whenever I want, and I can reject rides/passengers I don't want. At my W-2 job, I have to come in when they say so, and I have do exactly what they tell me.

I get the feeling you'd struggle as a W-2 employee, because you'd find something grossly unfair to protest in that setting as well.

Earning a living isn't easy. You have to work at it, whether it's as an employee or as an independent contractor. People just don't hand you shit because you say so.

If you do just want people to hand you shit, sign up for government benefits.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Hopindrew said:


> Some advice please?


Have a tip jar set up.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

You might not think Ride-share is supposed to be full time. But the question is what does Uber and Lyft say? I seem to recall Travis Kalanick saying you could absolutely do it full time.

That’s what the issue is. Not what you personally think of it. 

If it’s not supposed to be full time then why don’t Uber and Lyft say they don’t encourage full time driving?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

rkozy said:


> I can work whenever I want, and I can reject rides/passengers I don't want.


The only reason you're allowed to reject rides is due to the California court case a couple of years ago. Before that, "low" acceptance rates was cause for termination.

If I remember correctly, you're the one who was complaining about being paid a putrid $2.10 for loading and unloading groceries for a Walmart pax.

"Freelancing" must be pretty rough in your neck of the woods in Iowa with a $2.10 minimum fare and 45 cents per mile. I wouldn't start my car for those rates.

There are W2 employees who can come and go when they want. My first summer job at a warehouse had a receiver who did that very thing.



rkozy said:


> I get the feeling you'd struggle as a W-2 employee, because you'd find something grossly unfair to protest in that setting as well.


My "real" job is a W2 job. I do this part time for the 2nd income.


rkozy said:


> If you do just want people to hand you shit, sign up for government benefits.


Decent wages aren't handouts.


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

Cdub2k said:


> no 401K, no vacation days, no leave days ,no Overtime Pay, no Holiday pay, no union, no real job security (you can lose your driving privileges in an instant with one false report), and your pay can be zapped in half with one software update
> 
> Yep this sounds like a job I wouldn't do "Full Time" unless you are reinventing what a full time job actually means.


Corporations are already reinventing what a full time job really means.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> There are W2 employees who can come and go when they want.


I did a stint delivering pizzas. I told the boss some sob story about family obligations. He let me "come and go" on days I was scheduled to work. I would roll in between 5 and 7, as I felt like it. And I could take off whenever as well. That was w2 employee status. As long as the boss is cool with it...


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

DRider85 said:


> You might not think Ride-share is supposed to be full time. But the question is what does Uber and Lyft say? I seem to recall Travis Kalanick saying you could absolutely do it full time.
> 
> That's what the issue is. Not what you personally think of it.


In the spring of 2014, Travis also encouraged drivers to invest in fleets of rental vehicles, calling it a "sustainable business opportunity".

In the summer of 2014, Travis instituted massive rate cuts that devastated the rental businesses. Many fleet owners suffered thru repos and bankruptcies as a result of the rate cuts.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Mista T said:


> .....
> 
> So... to answer the question... did Uber ever say this was a full time job? Yes, they did. Many times. To millions of people.


To which I would have to ask "did anyone thought about the consequences of everyone and their mother driving? did any driver gave some thought to limited supply of people in need of the ride? or did everyone just thought, hey, I'm just going to drive cuz uber said money is great, I don't care how it works, and where the money actually comes from."

Honestly I can't convince myself that uber, instead of individuals, is responsible here. Any job I ever had, I always thought to myself will that industry (and that company) be here 5-10 years down the road. Looked at it from macro level downwards.

There's so many salesmen trying to sell snake oil... it's up to the customer to do their research instead of blindly trusting them. Same goes for any work individual chooses to do.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Pax Collector said:


> Have a tip jar set up.


Tip jar? Absolutely not. Very tacky and against guidelines.

Am, both, driver and rider. When driving, never solicit tips; however, do very well.

When riding, tip very selectively. But when solicited, including a tip jar, never tip. In fact can be a down rate and write up.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

dmoney155 said:


> To which I would have to ask "did anyone thought about the consequences of everyone and their mother driving? did any driver gave some thought to limited supply of people in need of the ride? or did everyone just thought, hey, I'm just going to drive cuz uber said money is great, I don't care how it works, and where the money actually comes from."
> 
> Honestly I can't convince myself that uber, instead of individuals, is responsible here. Any job I ever had, I always thought to myself will that industry (and that company) be here 5-10 years down the road. Looked at it from macro level downwards.
> 
> There's so many salesmen trying to sell snake oil... it's up to the customer to do their research instead of blindly trusting them. Same goes for any work individual chooses to do.


Of course Uber is responsible.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> If I remember correctly, you're the one who was complaining about being paid a putrid $2.10 for loading and unloading groceries for a Walmart pax.
> 
> "Freelancing" must be pretty rough in your neck of the woods in Iowa with a $2.10 minimum fare and 45 cents per mile. I wouldn't start my car for those rates.


I'm not a big fan of minimum fares and/or Wal-Mart stops. However, I'll take every chance I can get to stretch my legs in between trips. While it's not my job to lift and carry pax cargo, I will use it as an opportunity to get vertical. It also helps in rare instances of increasing your tip, if you're lucky enough to get a passenger who is inclined to do so.

I make enough money per-mile and per-hour to justify the use of my automobile. If I wasn't turning a profit, I'd be back working a second W-2 job where the money was guaranteed upfront. Luckily, I can make what I need to make with Uber/Lyft. And, I can make it on my schedule as I call all the shots on where I go and who gets in my vehicle.

If Uber/Lyft isn't working for you, perhaps a different gig is in order. Uber and Lyft aren't going to change their pricing structure because you're dissatisfied.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Of course Uber is responsible.


Uber's, absolutely, not responsible! What world are you from?


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

charmer37 said:


> I started Uber and Lyft In 2014 and stopped in 2016, I always thought of ride share as a part time gig just to make a few bucks. When I started it was a 80/20 split then they changed everything to miles and minutes. Drivers that do ride share full time are the main ones who really keep these companies going, Us part timers come and go.


I think former ants should understand one thing: When you came into taxicab business with no taxicab driving experience, you actually helped Uber to become one of the America's most hated companies. You wanted to make few bucks and Uber wanted to produce cheap service by cheap providers aka ants who willing to work for less than the taxicab industry standards. You have been manipulated by Uber through false advertisement over the years. You don't even want to see that. You picture yourself as a cool guy, who came into losers market to make few bucks and moved on. And now blaming full-timers for being losers. Those full timers were working as a taxi driver before naive souls jumped on this bandwagon and helped evil Uber to slash the rates from $4.50 (2012 driver rate San Diego) to $0.65 per mile in 2019.

You are responsible of this rate slash because you made yourself available as cheap labor willing to work at the 3rd world country earning rates. You helped Uber violating Federal Antitrust law. And as if this is not your fault, you blame full-timers for helping Uber. Tragic. And now telling them go find other jobs or don't work full time. How insane is this?

What would you say, if those full-timers, who actually spent many years as a taxi drivers come and disrupt your industry with no job skills? Can people like you go other industries in America, get hired on spot to make few bucks? Can you be a school bus driver to make a few bucks for example? Or train conductor with no train operation knowledge? We have sea transportation here, can i be a captain and operate a tour thug boat? Can you be a taxi driver for his app called Uber? Yes. But you can't work full time because Uber only hire those who accept to work at 3rd world country slavery rates, $0.65/mile and therefore turnover is very high in accordance with the refugee/immigration flow from 3rd world countries.


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

I mean, what was the original intention?

Was Uber just a business that was meant to make a profit? Was Uber a solution to an existing problem? I don't know but I always try to look for definitions. This was defined as a "gig". I never saw it as being a job. Usually, you will find a business trying to advertise for careers or employment - for instance, you click on a website careers link and you will find listings for marketing, human resources, project management, etc. The only thing that I recall Uber ever doing advertising for was for driving. I know you could probably get on their website now and find listings for developers or marketing or other internal business components. But as far as the driving side, this was only perceived as a gig. I thought that the difference between a gig and a job was that you could get fired from a job. You always have to report to a manager at a job. You always have to show up at a certain time or certain times for a job. If your job was to be part of a project, once that project is over, you no longer have a job. On the flip side, a gig is like being temporary security for an event. You don't really have to take a gig seriously. You either show up or you don't. you get paid for what you do and nothing more. If you don't show up, you don't get paid I'm like a job where you might get sick pay. I'm not sure why the lines got blurred


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

DRider85 said:


> If it's not supposed to be full time then why don't Uber and Lyft say they don't encourage full time driving?


Uber and Lyft are expecting you to use your own brain and financial judgement. If you can make a go of driving full-time (as some here are still claiming to do) then that is your prerogative. If you can't, then you don't log on to the app and you find a more suitable line of work.

If you don't want to be full-time (as many here do not) and just use this job to supplement an income, Uber/Lyft is cool with that, too. That's the entire concept of being an independent contractor...you are making those decisions. Not Lyft. Not Uber.



XPG said:


> But you can't work full time because Uber only hire those who accept to work at 3rd world country slavery rates, $0.65/mile and therefore turnover is very high in accordance with the refugee/immigration flow from 3rd world countries.


I make signifcantly more per-hour (after expenses) driving for Uber and Lyft than I do at my W-2 job for a multibillion-dollar international car rental company.

I work for the car rental company as a way to diversify my income, and as a backup in the event Uber/Lyft goes under. It's called not having all your eggs in one basket.

Why do some drivers here want to put all their eggs in the rideshare basket? That seems foolish, given the state of the industry.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

rkozy said:


> Uber and Lyft are expecting you to use your own brain and financial judgement. If you can make a go of driving full-time (as some here are still claiming to do) then that is your prerogative. If you can't, then you don't log on to the app and you find a more suitable line of work.


 Instead of telling people what line of work they should look into, remember your own words about Uber being an evil company. Once you deal with an evil, you don't do what evil expects you to do. Get it? Use your brain, it helps.



rkozy said:


> Uber doesn't care that they're an awful company with no moral core to their philosophy. They view having morals as a weakness. You can't just rip people off very easily with a nagging conscience. So, they eliminated their conscience, and the business model of ripping people off became much easier.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

XPG said:


> Instead of telling people what line of work they should look into, remember your own words about Uber being an evil company. Once you deal with an evil, you don't do what evil expects you to do. Get it? Use your brain, it helps.


I deal with evil companies all the time. It's a necessary skill for survival if you are going to exist in our modern civilization, where it's everybody for themselves.

Lecturing and preaching to other Uber drivers about how they are wrecking the Universe, simply because they want to earn some extra money, shines an unflattering light directly on your own entitlement mentality.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

rkozy said:


> I deal with evil companies all the time.


That's why i teached you the most important thing in dealing with evil companies, which is not doing what they are expecting you to do. You're welcome.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


When I signed up in 2015, Uber was advertising something like $1500/week to get drivers to sign up - so yeah they expected full time drivers. I believe they got sued for that (and lost because it was a lie) and that's when the "side hustle" ad campaign came out.

Make no mistake - Uber wants as many drivers on the road as possible at all times, extra hours cost them nothing. Anything they ever said to the contrary was nothing but PR.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

XPG said:


> That's why i teached you the most important thing in dealing with evil companies, which is not doing what they are expecting you to do. You're welcome.


You "teached" me that you probably don't have a high school diploma. That word you used to "teached" me isn't in an English dictionary.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Cdub2k said:


> no 401K, no vacation days, no leave days ,no Overtime Pay, no Holiday pay, no union, no real job security (you can lose your driving privileges in an instant with one false report), and your pay can be zapped in half with one software update
> 
> Yep this sounds like a job I wouldn't do "Full Time" unless you are reinventing what a full time job actually means.


I think having a regular full time job isn't all that it's made out to be. I'd rather reinvent what it means.

PTO, holiday pay, overtime etc. is nothing more than an increase in hourly pay under a different guise. You can take any day off you want with Uber, you just won't make money. If you make $10/hr at a regular job, and you work 50 hours, you are effectively making $11/hr. Doesn't sounds as great as thinking about making $15/hr for OT. 2 weeks PTO amounts to a pay increase of 52/50. So basically 10 hours OT each week and 2 weeks PTO is like making $11.44/hr. I'd rather have the flexibility to work as many hours as I want at $10/hr, then to make effectively 14% more per hour through PTO and OT benefits based on the whim of the employer. At most jobs you are either forced over time or you are forbidden overtime. A job with as much overtime as you want and no more is pretty rare. A lot of folks end up working a full time job and a part-time job to make ends meet, and often the P/T job is less pay per hour and no O/T since neither job adds up to over 40 in a week by itself.

You can lose any job. I have better job security driving than I would with another job because I'm working for 5+ companies every day. One company could fire me but I'd just switch to the other 4. Total income would be less but it would be more like a pay cut than the devestation of unemployment.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

CTK said:


> Make no mistake - Uber wants as many drivers on the road as possible at all times, extra hours cost them nothing. Anything they ever said to the contrary was nothing but PR.


If any driver is relying on Uber's claims to make their own decisions, they'll get what is coming to them. Whatever happened to research, due diligence, and good ol' common sense?

Uber (and Lyft) claims that I should accept every ping they send me. Only a complete moron Ant does that. I accept the pings that will make me money, and reject the ones which incur too much overhead. It's Business 101, yet so many drivers fall for the PsyOps Campaign being waged by these ride share companies.



Trafficat said:


> You can lose any job. I have better job security driving than I would with another job because I'm working for 5+ companies every day. One company could fire me but I'd just switch to the other 4. Total income would be less but it would be more like a pay cut than the devestation of unemployment.


Last time I held a singular full-time job was 2010. It went out of business suddenly one afternoon, and I was down Shit Creek without a paddle. Ever since then, I have a couple of jobs at the same time to diversify risk.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

rkozy said:


> You "teached" me that you probably don't have a high school diploma. That word you used to "teached" me isn't in an English dictionary.


 Insulting me over my English proficiency is not changing the fact you tell others to follow Uber's orders and expectations in your mother tongue!

p.s: I like your High School diploma question. Now go and ask this question to your master. I'd rather answer it to Uber if that comes as one of the job requirements to eliminate the unqualified ones.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

XPG said:


> Insulting me over my English proficiency is not changing the fact you tell others to follow Uber's orders and expectations in your mother tongue!


You're the one telling us we're evil for making money off Uber.

So, when did you delete the app from your phone?


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

XPG said:


> Ok let me explain as if i explain someone who has no clue about what we do. Let's say you are that general contractor aka Uber aka America's most hated company. You get this part?
> 
> I'm a cab driver, work full time in San Diego. This is the career path I've chosen. I'm a cab driver. Full time. You get this part?
> 
> Some trust fund babies with millennial names and fancy job titles changed the cab driver job title. Now they call taxicab drivers independent contractors as if they work in the construction to build some project. They call the taxicab business as rideshare gig. What is gig? Cab drivers used to go to gigs to pick up people after the concerts? Now gig is also called for taxi drivers? Why? Taxi driver was not cool enough for those tech-savy fast rising millennials with no job experiences? This taxi driving business was meant to be a full-time job for decades. Who gave you the right to destroy one industry, and re-build a new one on top with your Now tell me again. Where am I supposed to go and work if that general contractor stop using me as an independent contractor? Go work for other taxi cab companies?





XPG said:


> Ok let me explain as if i explain someone who has no clue about what we do. Let's say you are that general contractor aka Uber aka America's most hated company. You get this part?
> 
> I'm a cab driver, work full time in San Diego. This is the career path I've chosen. I'm a cab driver. Full time. You get this part?
> 
> ...


Obviously my analogy about the electrical contractor went way over your head. Let's try another...
You are an independent contractor - a driver. You use Uber as your agent to book trips for you to drive. Uber is the agent. Compare this to an actor or actress - an independent contractor who used an agent to book movie roles for them with movie production companies. In this analogy, passengers that wish to be driven equate to movie production companies that wish to cast actors in roles. If the agent decides to "drop" the actor and no longer represent him he is still an actor - an independent contractor. The agent who no longer negotiates on his behalf has not precluded him from continuing to act He has only stopped negotiating acting roles for the actor.

If that happens, as an independent contractor (like that actor in the analogy) you have three choices:
#1 find a new agent
#2 represent yourself in soliciting work
#3 opt to do something besides acting for a living if you can't find a new agent to represent you or fail in your attempts to represent yourself.

Now, in response to your question, "Now tell me again. Where am I supposed to go and work if that general contractor stop using me as an independent contractor?", my reply is that is entirely up to you. What you choose to do with your life is your individual responsibility.


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## CDP (Nov 11, 2018)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


When these scum sacks put out 100 ride challenges to achieve a quota, I pretty much consider that an implication of it being full-time and then some.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

DRider85 said:


> Of course Uber is responsible.


Why? did you give any thought as to where the money will come from? or did you just blindly figured, well if uber tells me I will make X amount of money, then it must be true?

When I heard about uber first time I was like that's got to be b.s. Talks to some drivers, sure they were making killing... then figured out why. And jumped in.... knowing very well that within year or two it will be significantly less. So to me it's no surprise that it is what it is today. I'm just milking that cow till there is no more milk.



XPG said:


> .....
> What would you say, if those full-timers, who actually spent many years as a taxi drivers come and disrupt your industry with no job *skills*? ....


I bold the key word. Need to be in industry where the skill is not easily replicated. It is yours and no one else responsibility to be relevant. Take pilots for example. Do you think anyone who invests money/time/energy into becoming one will sell themselves for 3.99/hr?! . Never going to happen. Driving a 16 year old can get license to with minimal training. And these days, with all the sensors the car practically corrects many mistakes driver makes. You don't even need to know how to parallel park for goodness sake. And you want a decent wage for that? come on.



rkozy said:


> .....
> Why do some drivers here want to put all their eggs in the rideshare basket? That seems foolish, given the state of the industry.


Cuz it's easy. Ride share gave people a taste of easy money, and now that it isn't there, everyone is suffering from withdrawal.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

dmoney155 said:


> Why? did you give any thought as to where the money will come from? or did you just blindly figured, well if uber tells me I will make X amount of money, then it must be true?
> 
> When I heard about uber first time I was like that's got to be b.s. Talks to some drivers, sure they were making killing... then figured out why. And jumped in.... knowing very well that within year or two it will be significantly less. So to me it's no surprise that it is what it is today. I'm just milking that cow till there is no more milk.
> 
> ...


Uber is responsible still. Otherwise I guess anything goes. I guess rules don't apply.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

dmoney155 said:


> Cuz it's easy. Ride share gave people a taste of easy money, and now that it isn't there, everyone is suffering from withdrawal.


Those "Good Ol' Days" aren't coming back, no matter how loudly these Full-Time-Or-Bust folks whine about it.

It may have been a full-time gig at its inception, but the economy has changed since then. Current reality has overtaken past events. I'm sure there are some coal miners who believe the good ol' days are coming back for them, despite the fact the industry has moved on.

If the "Good Ol' Days" do come back for ride share, everybody with an eligible car will be signing up to do it. Which means, the second iteration of the Good Ol' Days won't last very long due to driver saturation.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Tarvus said:


> Obviously my analogy about the electrical contractor went way over your head. Let's try another...


 Why are we trying new ways to study your analogy? Why are you expecting me to consider your analogy? You should ask this question to yourself: Who am i and why am i producing taxicab business analogies?

You said you came into this taxicab business as an inexperienced ant in 2014 to make few bucks and moved out in 2016. Why are you forcing yourself to produce analogies in 2019. Don't they have similar message boards in your industry, where you can produce analogies and share with others?


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

XPG said:


> Why are we trying new ways to study your analogy? Why are you expecting me to consider your analogy? You should ask this question to yourself: Who am i and why am i producing taxicab business analogies?
> 
> You said you came into this taxicab business as an inexperienced ant in 2014 to make few bucks and moved out in 2016. Why are you forcing yourself to produce analogies in 2019. Don't they have similar message boards in your industry, where you can produce analogies and share with others?


Having an intelligent discussion is obviously beyond your capability. Whatever floats your boat dude. It's fine with me.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Very tacky and against guidelines.


Nothing in the guidelines says you can't have a tip jar. It's not tacky either.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

XPG said:


> Why are we trying new ways to study your analogy?


When did you delete the Uber Driver app off your phone?


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Tarvus said:


> Having an intelligent discussion is obviously beyond your capability. Whatever floats your boat dude. It's fine with me.


What qualification and/or taxicab industry experience do you have other than 2 years anting between 2014 and 2016? Stop clowning yourself. I feel ashamed on behalf of you. Your situation is very tragic. Have one of your friends read this thread and tell you the truth.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Who offers car rentals and leases that are as much as $1,000 per month for a part time driver? Bonus promos towards your rental if you complete 120 riidess per week for part time?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

XPG said:


> What qualification and/or taxicab industry experience do you have other than 2 years anting between 2014 and 2016? Stop clowning yourself. I feel ashamed on behalf of you. Your situation is very tragic. Have one of your friends read this thread and tell you the truth.


When did you delete the Uber Driver app off your phone?


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

The only good thing uber has going for itself is flex schedule... if you give that by being full timer, you are better off just giving up uber and doing some other full time job.

Personally I only do it because of the flex schedule. No boss would ever put up with me starting/ending work at different locations, doing work how I please, and take off weekends or any other days whenever I want. That is what the discounted pay rate buys you. By doing this FT, you basically giving that up, so you get discounted pay and nothing in return. I don't need uber to write that in black and white to understand how it works.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

dmoney155 said:


> The only good thing uber has going for itself is flex schedule... if you give that by being full timer, you are better off just giving up uber and doing some other full time job.


These Full-Time-Or-Bust folks are living in a fantasy world.

They believe Uber will suddenly go back to higher rates, and that passengers will gladly pay them, and that no competitor will ever come along to undercut their price and lure away riders.

Then, they believe that once Uber defies this simple rule of economics, Uber will completely abandon its plans to pursue a fully autonomous fleet in the future. Because, after all, a publicly traded company will scrap the business model it sold to investors just to make some disgruntled drivers on UP.net happy again.

No wonder these people are unemployable elsewhere. They are borderline totally delusional.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

touberornottouber said:


> I just ignore those people. There will always be shills or total morons around.
> 
> It really doesn't make sense. It isn't good part time either when you only get one $3 ride an hour. The same issues at full time also exist at part time.


Excellent point. Working part time doesn't make it ok to to steal 50 to 60 percent of the fare. It should be a fair wage regardless of you working 15 or 60 hours per week. Then expect you to provide first class service in a modern vehicle and maintain a 4.6 rating for something that is suppose to be for beer money. What a joke.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Who offers car rentals and leases that are as much as $1,000 per month for a part time driver? Bonus promos towards your rental if you complete 120 riidess per week for part time?


 Both Uber and his ugly sister Lyft offer those rentals in San Diego, which is infested with ants. They are not only being forced to work full time to pay their rentals but also forced to keep the cars since they sleep in them due to expensive housing. In the meantime, real estate market using the line "$5 Uber ride from restaurants and bars" as a promotional tool to advertise their properties. Tragic.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Will chime in on this a tad; however, not interested in solving a puzzle, or even presenting an argument. So, not going to counter the other side, or post documentation.
> 
> With that being said, I started four years ago and knew, right out of the gate, this job works ONLY as supplemental, part time and/or extra income. Cannot conceive it any other way.
> 
> ...


Very good points you made. I think deep down inside most people understand that to depend on ride share full time would not be wise at least not long term. The issue I think most people are calling out Uber on is the part time excuse they give to the public when questioned about their unfair practices but they. are the ones encouraging full time drivers. You can't have it both ways.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

When did XPG delete his/her Uber Driver app off his/her phone?

XPG won't bring Uber to its knees if they are still out driving strangers around for money.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Very good points you made. I think deep down inside most people understand that to depend on ride share full time would not be wise at least not long term. The issue I think most people are calling out Uber on is the part time excuse they give to the public when questioned about their unfair practices but they. are the ones encouraging full time drivers. You can't have it both ways.


But why not?.... all they doing is providing you with a platform. You do what you want with it.



rkozy said:


> When did XPG delete his/her Uber Driver app off his/her phone?
> 
> XPG won't bring Uber to its knees if they are still out driving strangers around for money.


He just wants everyone else to do it so he can have all the pings lol.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

dmoney155 said:


> He just wants everyone else to do it so he can have all the pings lol.


There are people posting here stupid enough to believe it's a viable strategy.

As poorly run as Uber/Lyft are, I can at least grasp the concept of their business plan. They want driverless cars, and they want to control the turf where driverless cars operate. It might be a pipe dream, but at least it's a coherent pipe dream.

XPG wants a world where passengers pay taxicab rates to ride in cars that aren't taxicabs, driven by people even less qualified than taxicab drivers. XPG also believes that this "business model" is so revolutionary, that traditional market forces and technological innovation will be unable to bring about the demise of such a poorly-conceived strategy.



XPG said:


> I see how you get angry after public humiliation. Part of the schooling. It's good for you.


So, you are still driving for Uber while telling everybody else not to.

That means even you don't believe your own bullshit.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

rkozy said:


> When did XPG delete his/her Uber Driver app off his/her phone?
> 
> XPG won't bring Uber to its knees if they are still out driving strangers around for money.


 I see how you get angry after public humiliation. Part of the schooling. It's good for you.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

dmoney155 said:


> But why not?.... all they doing is providing you with a platform. You do what you want with it.
> 
> 
> He just wants everyone else to do it so he can have all the pings lol.


I agree but where do you draw the line? I would prefer the government not have to get involved but at what point does legal become illegal? We do the exact kind of work as a taxi driver which otherwise would be considered employee labor except for the independent contractor status. When the pay becomes borderline minimum wage or less the government will raise an eyebrow.

If Uber decided to pay everyone 3 cents per mile tomorrow do you really believe it's as simple as take it or leave it? The platform is oversaturated with drivers and many make below minimum wage. When you have the authority to take independent contractors earnings and divide it up as you see fit you are no longer a partner you are an employer. The fact they have gotten away with it for this long is still not enough. They won't stop decreasing pay until it's down to zero or the government intervenes.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> If Uber decided to pay everyone 3 cents per mile tomorrow do you really believe it's as simple as take it or leave it?


If pay was actually 3 cents per mile, only an idiot would log on. It's not Uber's fault people are idiots.

Uber pays $0.48 per mile and Lyft pays $0.45 per mile in my market. I can easily turn a profit, even on days where the tips aren't as big as I'd like them to be. The simple fact is many people doing ride share don't know how to run a business. They don't track expenses versus revenue, and they trust that every ping Uber throws them will somehow make them money.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

rkozy said:


> If pay was actually 3 cents per mile, only an idiot would log on. It's not Uber's fault people are idiots.
> 
> Uber pays $0.48 per mile and Lyft pays $0.45 per mile in my market. I can easily turn a profit, even on days where the tips aren't as big as I'd like them to be. The simple fact is many people doing ride share don't know how to run a business. They don't track expenses versus revenue, and they trust that every ping Uber throws them will somehow make them money.


This is Uber/Lyft's choice not to easily fix this. All they have to do is give up the Employer Perks they have instead of trying to have it both ways. That is the fine line to where this becomes illegal. Let them pay drivers whatever they choose but they can not maintain the power of refusing to provide independent contractors with the full information on each trip to decide whether or not to accept.

The food delivery companies provide full details of each trip upfront. You know the location, mileage, and pay upfront before you accept. I have declined hundreds of orders because they were too far out and little pay. I could not imagine accepting an order and then going to McDonald's only to find out that it is for 2 cheeseburgers to an area a hour away but that's exactly what Uber does. Treating us like employees is illegal.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I agree but where do you draw the line? I would prefer the government not have to get involved but at what point does legal become illegal? We do the exact kind of work as a taxi driver which otherwise would be considered employee labor except for the independent contractor status. When the pay becomes borderline minimum wage or less the government will raise an eyebrow.
> 
> If Uber decided to pay everyone 3 cents per mile tomorrow do you really believe it's as simple as take it or leave it? The platform is oversaturated with drivers and many make below minimum wage. When you have the authority to take independent contractors earnings and divide it up as you see fit you are no longer a partner you are an employer. The fact they have gotten away with it for this long is still not enough. They won't stop decreasing pay until it's down to zero or the government intervenes.


As a staunch conservative, would let it go to zero.

And no sympathy, whatsoever, for the uneducated, working class grunts who get stuck in that grind.

In fact, would enjoy watching their pain!

MAGA
?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Let them pay drivers whatever they choose but they can not maintain the power of refusing to provide independent contractors with the full information on each trip to decide whether or not to accept.


You can accept or decline any ride Uber or Lyft throws your way. That's why my AR% on Uber is below 80%, and my AR% on Lyft is even lower. Any ping too far away gets rejected instantly. Any ping relatively close but in a known problem area gets rejected. Any accepted ride with a problem that presents itself on or before pick-up gets cancelled.

Uber and Lyft can only suggest pick-up locations. You are not bound to take them, and a good driver will make sure their investment in the distance to pick-up can always withstand a worst-case scenario for revenue. I make money on every fare, including minimum fares. I'm not going to waste my own precious gas so that Uber looks good to the pax.

Lyft sends me Nastygrams all the time about my acceptance rating. I ignore them and keep declining worthless pings. Yet, Lyft still sends me ride requests all the time.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> I bold the key word. Need to be in industry where the skill is not easily replicated. It is yours and no one else responsibility to be relevant.


 I see how you underestimate the skills in taxi driving business. Uber manipulated the public's perception by providing cheap rides with 3rd world immigrant cheap labor force.

Do you have kids? What skills do you expect from the school bus driver to drive your kids? What skills do you expect from the Uber taxi driver to drive your kids?


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

rkozy said:


> You can accept or decline any ride Uber or Lyft throws your way. That's why my AR% on Uber is below 80%, and my AR% on Lyft is even lower. Any ping too far away gets rejected instantly. Any ping relatively close but in a known problem area gets rejected. Any accepted ride with a problem that presents itself on or before pick-up gets cancelled.
> 
> Uber and Lyft can only suggest pick-up locations. You are not bound to take them, and a good driver will make sure their investment in the distance to pick-up always exceeds a worst-case scenario for revenue. I make money on every fare, including minimum fares. I'm not going to waste my own precious gas so that Uber looks good to the pax.
> 
> Lyft sends me Nastygrams all the time about my acceptance rating. I ignore them and keep declining worthless pings. Yet, Lyft still sends me ride requests all the time.


You have a right to know what address you are picking up at, where the trip is going, and the estimated payout. When I see an order on Doordash it gives me the pickup and drop off address along with mileage and pay. If I don't want to go and wait 45 minutes at Applebee's on a Saturday night I decline the order. If the customer lives in a high rise building with a security gate and the pay is only $5 I decline the order. That is my right as an independent contractor.

Food delivery doesn't have a choice but to provide those details upfront or else there would be abandoned lunches and dinners everywhere. If it's not considered discrimination for food delivery it should not be considered discrimination for not accepting an Uber ride that you will lose money on. They must provide full trip details or else they are behaving like an employer.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I agree but where do you draw the line? I would prefer the government not have to get involved but at what point does legal become illegal? We do the exact kind of work as a taxi driver which otherwise would be considered employee labor except for the independent contractor status. When the pay becomes borderline minimum wage or less the government will raise an eyebrow.
> 
> If Uber decided to pay everyone 3 cents per mile tomorrow do you really believe it's as simple as take it or leave it? The platform is oversaturated with drivers and many make below minimum wage. When you have the authority to take independent contractors earnings and divide it up as you see fit you are no longer a partner you are an employer. The fact they have gotten away with it for this long is still not enough. They won't stop decreasing pay until it's down to zero or the government intervenes.


The government couldn't save the milk man either... some jobs just phase out. Back in a day cars weren't as commonplace as they are today. Now it's a different story... the taxi as a ft job is fading away. There were many jobs in the past that simply disappeared.

The pay will keep on dropping so long drivers keep on driving. I doubt the government will intervene any more than simply declassifying taxi as a job. It will become something that retirees or young adults do... like paper delivery or something, where you get some pocket money for.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> As a staunch conservative, would let it go to zero.
> 
> And no sympathy, whatsoever, for the uneducated, working class grunts who get stuck in that grind.
> 
> ...


I get that same enjoyment when their stock price drops. I look forward to their collapse after a recession. I just hope my fellow drivers make it out beforehand. Uber serves no good for this industry so they pretty much should cease to exist. Making millions of dollars and blowing it recklessly off the backs of hard working drivers is a disservice to the transportation industry. UBER/Lyft R.I.P.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

XPG said:


> I see how you underestimate the skills in taxi driving business. Uber manipulated the public's perception by providing cheap rides with 3rd world immigrant cheap labor force.
> 
> Do you have kids? What skills do you expect from the school bus driver to drive your kids? What skills do you expect from the Uber taxi driver to drive your kids?


I don't expect much skill other than be able to drive.... it's not like taxi drivers have to pass some more difficult driving test... or keep on getting retested ever so often.
I give example of pilots. Consider Private license vs Commerical license... very different requirements. Now compare that to private car driver vs taxi/bus driver. Hardly any difference.

p.s.
Uber didnt have to manipulate any perception... that was done by cabbies themselves... long before uber arrived.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> They must provide full trip details or else they are behaving like an employer.


The law doesn't see it that way. At least, not at the moment.


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> I don't expect much skill other than be able to drive....


 I asked you a simple question, expecting a simple answer. Let me repeat:

What skills do you expect from the school bus driver to drive your kids? What skills do you expect from the Uber taxi driver to drive your kids?


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I get that same enjoyment when their stock price drops. I look forward to their collapse after a recession. I just hope my fellow drivers make it out beforehand. Uber serves no good for this industry so they pretty much should cease to exist. Making millions of dollars and blowing it recklessly off the backs of hard working drivers is a disservice to the transportation industry. UBER/Lyft R.I.P.


Many of us feel differently, myself included.

If you can't accept that, then, am going to defend Uber all the way to the end. Their morals are my morals.

So, on their side, versus the drivers.

Free Market.

MAGA


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

XPG said:


> I asked you a simple question, expecting a simple answer. Let me repeat:
> 
> What skills do you expect from the school bus driver to drive your kids? What skills do you expect from the Uber taxi driver to drive your kids?


be able to drive safely.... which is same as any other driver on the road... no more, no less.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

XPG said:


> What skills do you expect from the school bus driver to drive your kids? What skills do you expect from the Uber taxi driver to drive your kids?


You don't need to worry about that, because you're not driving for Uber, and you're also not paying for rides on Uber.

In fact, the only thing you have time for is whining about how your poor life choices have relegated you to this message board because Uber made you do bad things.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

rkozy said:


> You don't need to worry about that, because you're not driving for Uber, and you're also not paying for rides on Uber.
> 
> In fact, the only thing you have time for is whining about how your poor life choices have relegated you to this message board because Uber made you do bad things.


?


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

> The only other official federal definition of part-time and full-time employees comes from the Bureau of State Labor Statistics. Their definition is not a hard-and fast rule, but more a general guideline for reporting out labor statistics. According to that agency:
> 
> 
> *A full-time employee* works 35 hours or more per week.
> *A part-time employee* works 1-34 hours per week.


By that definition, ride share can be full time if you drive over 35 hours per week.

But I would NEVER depend on ride share to support my family as one false claim and I can be on a 24 hour break or get deactivated. Ride share money is my fun/toy/extra money.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> I've never seen them advertise for full time drivers ???
> 
> No, Uber never said it wasn't supposed to be a full time gig in it's literal sense but this is where common sense is supposed to prevail.


You never saw an advertisement for full time drivers??????

I get a bonus 450$, for every innocent, vulnerable, financially struggling person I can market and deceive into renting a car from Say Lyft. This renting of a car comes with working full time as a ride share driver. That's advertisement at its finest.

Common sense should prevailed against a multi billion dollar false advertising campaign, but that's not fair nor reality.

I got disgusted with LYFT offering drivers 450$, to get some innocent person to work for them and rent a car through them, thus forcing a full time position.

They need full timers, and con people into it. But spend billions with a marketing campaign to hid this fact.


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

rkozy said:


> So, you are still driving for Uber while telling everybody else not to.
> 
> That means *even you don't believe your own bullshit.*


explains a lot of folks here


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> be able to drive safely.... which is same as any other driver on the road... no more, no less.


So you will hire any driver, whoever is able to drive school bus safely. Meaning any highschool drop out, drug addict, gang member rapist with suicidal tendencies can drive your kids, if that person is able to drive school bus safely.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Hopindrew said:


> Miami kid is exactly what he is a kid with no life experience no knowledge but feels the need to push his no knowledge beliefs. I get young garbage like him in my car everyday.


Wrong, he is a MAN. Young man with ways to go. But I believe he gets some payouts through ride-share advertising and pro UBER income generation situations. He has claimed 10k income from UBER monthly and is proud to claim RESIDUAL UBER INCOME. I personally now believe him. He does something else for UBER than just drive. 90 million anyone? Just for Marketing! I'm sure other could be pro UBER for a check if tickling your fancy.


----------



## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

RioRoja said:


> I've been making this work as a full-time gig for close to 5 years. In late 2014, I started out doing only UberX and Lyft in my 2010 Ford Escape, and at about the one year mark of doing this full time, I sort of admitted to myself, "okay I guess this is what I do now..." and bought a 2014 Ford Transit Connect minivan which added UberXL, LyftXL and UberSelect to the mix. In mid 2017, I bought a 2013 Infiniti JX35 (renamed QX60 in 2014) which added Lyft Lux, Lyft Lux Black and Lyft Lux Black XL to the mix, and then just this summer, I bought a 2016 Lincoln Navigator L, got my PUC LL (luxury limousine) permit and can now do Uber Black & SUV as well as private rides.
> 
> View attachment 353358
> 
> ...


Those are some nice high net numbers. Though they vary widely compared to mine which are more consistant day to day. I average 18 to 20/ hr pretty consistently. Up to 25/hr when I worked nights.

I'm curious, how much of a difference did it make when you started doing lux and black, and how much of it is the limo part of your business.

How much would you be averaging if you just did X and XL?



MiamiKid said:


> QUIT DRIVING.
> 
> As staunch Free Market Capitalist, do not believe anyone, particularly Uber, owes you a living wage or a tip.
> 
> ...


As a free market capitalist, why do you let uber set your pay rate? We can't earn it on our own if someone else is setting the rate. There is no negotiation, and that is not a free market.


----------



## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

ZenUber said:


> As a free market capitalist, why do you let uber set your pay rate? We can't earn it on our own if someone else is setting the rate. There is no negotiation, and that is not a free market.


Negotiated rates is an excellent idea! I would love to see a system where passengers post bids on what they are willing to pay for a ride and drivers post offers on what they are willing do the ride for. High bids would attract drivers, low bids would be ignored. This in essence would set an individualized surge rate per trip. Drivers, seeing where someone is headed, might take the trip for less than a "normal" amount if it was heading where they wanted to go - sort of like using the destination filter. Win/win for both drivers and passengers and the free market sets the rate.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> The only good thing uber has going for itself is flex schedule


They certainly don't offer anything else worthwhile, that's for sure.

The alleged flexibility is overrated due to the garbage pay rates.

Most drivers including part timers have earnings goals, and the shitty pay rates forces them to work more hours and often at times and places they'd prefer not to to reach those goals.

Bad pay rates increases uber's control over the drivers and reduces flexibility.


dmoney155 said:


> No boss would ever put up with me starting/ending work at different locations, doing work how I please, and take off weekends or any other days whenever I want.


That's false.

My first summer job was at a warehouse, and the receiver worked when he pleased. If he wanted to leave early or not show up at all it was OK with the bosses.

@Mista T delivered pizza at a shop that allowed him to come and go when he pleased.


dmoney155 said:


> That is what the discounted pay rate buys you.


Bullshit to that.

The billions of dollars they save every year by not having to pay for FICA, workers comp, unemployment insurance, etc vastly more than pays for whatever limited flexibility we receive. Even with all the billions they're saving, the greedy scumbags are always looking for ways to cut our already meager wages.



ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I get that same enjoyment when their stock price drops. I look forward to their collapse after a recession. I just hope my fellow drivers make it out beforehand.


If uber and lyft were to go belly up, their bodies wouldn't have time to get cold before new rideshare companies opened for business.


----------



## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

XPG said:


> So you will hire any driver, whoever is able to drive school bus safely. Meaning any highschool drop out, drug addict, gang member rapist with suicidal tendencies can drive your kids, if that person is able to drive school bus safely.


Yep, except that any of what you mentioned above, doubt they are very safe people.



Nats121 said:


> ....
> Bad pay rates increases uber's control over the drivers and reduces flexibility.
> ....


I agree, but there is a limit. I'm sure you have a number where you would just stop driving. I drive less and less each year. I remember first year I was like "hrm... do I want to make $500 today?"... now it's "do I want to make $200 today". Needless to say, I answer no more often then before. I'm not sure about everyone else, but for me, money talks.... and the less of it is offered, the less inclined I am to do the work.



Nats121 said:


> That's false.
> 
> My first summer job was at a warehouse, and the receiver worked when he pleased. If he wanted to leave early or not show up at all it was OK with the bosses.


That's nice, once I find one, I would be driving even less. So for each one wanted me to adhere to some sort of schedule.



Nats121 said:


> Bullshit to that.
> 
> The billions of dollars they save every year by not having to pay for FICA, workers comp, unemployment insurance, etc vastly more than pays for whatever limited flexibility we receive. Even with all the billions they're saving, the greedy scumbags are always looking for ways to cut our already meager wages.
> 
> ...


Well, everyone has a price... I don't know why everyone is sooo upset about it. All the drivers are the enablers of these practices. You wouldn't go and buy pair of jeans if the markup was ridiculously high...... same should go for work. If compensation is not enough, or you feel they take too much from customers and keep for themselves, you simply don't do it. Why not do my yard work for a dollar? and bring your own tools? clearly it isn't worth it for you (or is it?  ).
What I don't get is how uber can convince people to do what basically I am offering. So because of that, they deserve every penny they exploit from people. Clearly they are doing something that not everyone can.


----------



## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

Cdub2k said:


> no 401K, no vacation days, no leave days ,no Overtime Pay, no Holiday pay, no union, no real job security.


From what I hear Uber will soon be offering all of the above. But you must achieve what they call "Super platinum" level.

You must do 400 rides a week with 0 cancellations. And you must have a perfect 5.00 rating on all rides.


----------



## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

DoubleDee said:


> From what I hear Uber will soon be offering all of the above. But you must achieve what they call "Super platinum" level.
> 
> You must do 400 rides a week with 0 cancellations. And you must have a perfect 5.00 rating on all rides.


That's what I don't get. They cut your rates, they offer worthless diamonds, and folks drive even more.... And people here say uber think tank doesn't deserve all the money they are getting?! It's genius how well they understand and exploit human psyche. I bet those people have jobs lined up in CIA if uber ever fails. 
Why torture people for information? offer them worthless perks.


----------



## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

dmoney155 said:


> That's what I don't get. They cut your rates, they offer worthless diamonds, and folks drive even more....


Lol ... Uber truly is the master of mind control. They reel you in at one rate. Then they constantly lower the rates and screw you in the @@@. But they dangle the diamond thing in front of the drivers and they come running ( driving ) like Pavlovs dogs.

Earlier in this thread there are some drivers bragging about how great it is driving for Uber. One literally wrote that "Uber is as good as it gets". Drivers like this really are the Manchurian driver candidates.



Hopindrew said:


> You don't deserve the benefits you are stealing while working Uber. People like you should be prosecuted.


Perfect example here. See how this driver defends his or her Uber master with an almost "cult like" zeal ?

You don't deserve the paradise that master Uber is providing for you. You should be prosecuted for your thought crimes against the master. The master is beautiful and all knowing.

If Uber offered a Jonestown like sanctuary I believe this person would be first in line to get on the boat to the island.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

DoubleDee said:


> Lol ... Uber truly is the master of mind control. They reel you in at one rate. Then they constantly lower the rates and screw you in the @@@. But they dangle the diamond thing in front of the drivers and they come running ( driving ) like Pavlovs dogs.
> 
> Earlier in this thread there are some drivers bragging about how great it is driving for Uber. One literally wrote that "Uber is as good as it gets". Drivers like this really are the Manchurian driver candidates.
> 
> ...


 Nope, just a true Free Market Capitalist.

Last time I checked, that's considered very normal in the USA. Matter of fact, never been involved, with an industry that doesn't work similar to Uber.

Again normal stuff unless your some Socialist alien.

MAGA
USA ?


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

amazinghl said:


> But I would NEVER depend on ride share to support my family as one false claim and I can be on a 24 hour break or get deactivated. Ride share money is my fun/toy/extra money.


I get a kick out of these people who decry Lyft and Uber for being so dishonest (which they are) but are steaming mad because they can't become full-time employees for a dishonest company. WTF are these people smoking?

I know what Lyft and Uber are all about. I know the games they play, and I know the games I can play to offset their shenanigans. In no way is this gig a healthy relationship with a respectful employer. Are these whiny people so desperate for employment, that they'll pout and throw tantrums just to get U/L to give them a full-time job?

I guess so. Pathetic.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Many of us feel differently, myself included.
> 
> If you can't accept that, then, am going to defend Uber all the way to the end. Their morals are my morals.
> 
> ...


Obviously you have no idea what the true meaning of free market is. There are still laws and boundaries we must follow. There is reason that we have a minimum wage, caps on credit card interest rates, and time and a half overtime pay after 40 hours worked. It is to prevent companies from exploiting workers and consumers. That is exactly what Uber is doing exploiting drivers and passengers. They are too stupid to quit while they are ahead. Your fantasy version of free market will be the reason of Uber's demise. Have a pleasant day.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Obviously you have no idea what the true meaning of free market is. There are still laws and boundaries we must follow. There is reason that we have a minimum wage, caps on credit card interest rates, and time and a half overtime pay after 40 hours worked. It is to prevent companies from exploiting workers and consumers. That is exactly what Uber is doing exploiting drivers and passengers. They are too stupid to quit while they are ahead. Your fantasy version of free market will be the reason of Uber's demise. Have a pleasant day.


MAGA


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

rental plan requiring 85 rides a week sounds full time to me

10% of drivers servicing 80+% of requests sounds full time to me

consecutive ride bonuses, pro status, challenges, streaks, "free" school, gas "discounts", repair "discounts", Starbucks BOGO coupons, all require full time driving to achieve

me thinks if it was just for part time drivers no one would get picked up

uber lyft wouldnt exist if not for the fill time drivers since 60+% of drivers do less than 10 rides per month, 25+% churn out every 30 days & 96% dont last a year or 100 rides


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

njn said:


>


shameful how bus companies advertise transportation competitors on their bus


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## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

kevin92009 said:


> shameful how bus companies advertise transportation competitors on their bus


$5000 a month over 50K a year PART TIME yeah suuuurrrre dats da ticket

even 4 years ago when it was easy that still required 8+ hours driving a day or 20-30 rides daily, i make maybe 300-400$ less doing 2-3 rides daily 5 years later lol by my math if i did 100+ more rides a week id only net less than $400 more LMAO a whole $1 profit per ride


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

kevin92009 said:


> shameful how bus companies advertise transportation competitors on their bus


It's called revenue. They're free to collect it.
?


----------



## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


People just say this to sound smart and make excuses for the evil things uber and lyft does....if lyft is renting you a car for 200 a week and saying you need to do 80 trips a week to keep the car, then that sounds like they want you to do this full time


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


Uber has said a lot of things every single day since day 1

The funny part is, every time they change it up they act like whatever they are saying today is how it has always been.

First they said it was a job good for FT or PT. Then they said PT only.

They change with the wind and they hope nobody notices or remembers

But I do


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> People just say this to sound smart and make excuses for the evil things uber and lyft does....if lyft is renting you a car for 200 a week and saying you need to do 80 trips a week to keep the car, then that sounds like they want you to do this full time


Have always thought both these companies pushing the rental/lease car thing was a bad idea. In fact, in my opinion, think they should discontinue the program.

However, personally never believed rideshare would work, fulltime, with a $200/week rental. But, that was four years ago, when I started, and figured most would've figured that out by now.


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Today's Craigslist Jobs section infested with false Uber ads that mislead the high school drop-out kids as if they can work full time and make $5k a month as a taxi driver for Uber.

I dedicate this educative video to all high school drop out kids, who became a taxi driver because they are young, clueles and very lazy.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Obviously you have no idea what the true meaning of free market is. There are still laws and boundaries we must follow. There is reason that we have a minimum wage, caps on credit card interest rates, and time and a half overtime pay after 40 hours worked. It is to prevent companies from exploiting workers and consumers. That is exactly what Uber is doing exploiting drivers and passengers. They are too stupid to quit while they are ahead. Your fantasy version of free market will be the reason of Uber's demise. Have a pleasant day.


Those concepts are anti-free market.

There are reasons we do all those things, but not good reasons.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

kevin92009 said:


> shameful how bus companies advertise transportation competitors on their bus


Money is money.


----------



## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Money is money.


true


----------



## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

Wait isn't this supposed to be free market? Why can't I see the pick up and drop off address before I accept the trip? In a true free market system we would be allowed to see that and determine as independent contractors if that trip is worth it or not.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

ubergrind said:


> Wait isn't this supposed to be free market? Why can't I see the pick up and drop off address before I accept the trip? In a true free market system we would be allowed to see that and determine as independent contractors if that trip is worth it or not.


Correct.

If uber operated in a true free market manner, it would cost them billions of dollars per year in additional payouts to the drivers.

Uber's most powerful weapon to keep driver pay rates poor is to hide the destinations from the drivers.

If drivers could see destinations in advance and not be penalized in any way for declining offers, driver pay would rise dramatically.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ubergrind said:


> Wait isn't this supposed to be free market? Why can't I see the pick up and drop off address before I accept the trip? In a true free market system we would be allowed to see that and determine as independent contractors if that trip is worth it or not.


Doesn't work that way.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

amazinghl said:


> one false claim and I can be on a 24 hour break or get deactivated


That type of behavior on the part of these companies has to end.

Unlike employers, when uber fires a driver, it costs them nothing. They offload the cost of the now unemployed driver onto the taxpayers.

If the driver is full time, in all likelihood he/she already qualifies for food stamps and medicaid due to the terrible pay rates these shitty companies pay their drivers.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Doesn't work that way.


Waiting on the explanation of this.

But i might be waiting for some time


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Doesn't work that way.


How so? Lol

While I agree with the basis of your posts usually,

in an -ideal- free market you would be able to evaluate the value of the "good" or "service"

To even be able to do so, you'd have to view all the info relevant to the ride

I personally do not care, but I can't argue that drivers shouldn't be able to see that information as an IC


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

ubergrind said:


> Why can't I see the pick up and drop off address before I accept the trip? In a true free market system we would be allowed to see that and determine as independent contractors if that trip is worth it or not.


 You are not a contractor. You are a taxi driver. You can accept or decline the trips you receive from your dispatcher. That's it. The general public perceives you as such as well. That's why your dispatcher Uber is listed as one of America's most hated companies.


----------



## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

ubergrind said:


> Wait isn't this supposed to be free market? Why can't I see the pick up and drop off address before I accept the trip? In a true free market system we would be allowed to see that and determine as independent contractors if that trip is worth it or not.
> [/QUOTat
> their scum they won't do that


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

XPG said:


> You are not a contractor. You are a taxi driver. You can accept or decline the trips you receive from your dispatcher. That's it. The general public perceives you as such as well. That's why your dispatcher Uber is listed as one of America's most hated companies.


He's not taxi driver, because if he was, his rates would be taxi rates, not the piece of shit pay rates uber pays the drivers.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

DRider85 said:


> Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig?


No, infact they used to encourage it. In the earlier days, if a driver logged 50hrs online they waived the commission.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> No, infact they used to encourage it. In the earlier days, if a driver logged 50hrs online they waived the commission.


Uber's been playing a double game for years.

On the one hand, they've always offered various incentives to get drivers to work full time. They'd be out business in less than 24 hours without full time drivers

On the other hand, they tell the public (and most importantly the govt) that rideshare is a part time job.

On a financial TV show, I saw one of their execs lie when he said "rideshare isn't meant to be a full time job".


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Uber's been playing a double game for years.


The worst type of folks.

I've pretty much stopped using Uber except for rare instances and its always cash tip vs in app.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Hopindrew said:


> Even if it wasn't supposed to be full time which is not true anyway, saying someone doesn't deserve a fair wage is messed up. Part time or full time a fair wage is deserved. Also does anyone ask passengers for tips? Where does Uber stand on that? I'm tired of people not tipping. I have about 12000 rides and am fed up with cheap bartenders and servers and many many others who don't tip. Some advice please?


Put grease on it before it goes in. ?


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> He's not taxi driver, because if he was, his rates would be taxi rates, not the piece of shit pay rates uber pays the drivers.


You can replace the taxi driver's dispatcher and operation system, but you can't change the job title. Rideshare is just a marketing gimmick to sell the standard taxi concept to millennials. Uber is a taxi dispatch application. You can make your own taxi dispatch application name it NutsDrives.


----------



## Munsuta (May 4, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> Uber wore a 20 million dollar fine for telling drivers they could earn 100ks per year driving for Uber. Pretty sure that implies it's a full-time job. A career. A Screw college 100ks per year job.
> 
> Uber could not survive with part time drivers.
> 
> ...


I remember this clearly. In fact Uber advertised in my market that I could make $1200 a week. They didn't say that I would have to sleep in my car and work 12 hour shifts and pee in a bottle. Can't even break 500/week full time now with the pay cuts and excess drivers.


----------



## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Correct.
> 
> If uber operated in a true free market manner, it would cost them billions of dollars per year in additional payouts to the drivers.
> 
> ...


I can't see destination but I can see the length of time a trip is and in what direction before I accept it....only because I'm a diamond driver....the catch is if I chose not to accept a few trips then I lose the ability to see the direction and time length of trips


----------



## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> I can't see destination but I can see the length of time a trip is and in what direction before I accept it....only because I'm a diamond driver....the catch is if I chose not to accept a few trips then I lose the ability to see the direction and time length of trips


same here , carrot on a stick


----------



## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

kevin92009 said:


> same here , carrot on a stick


I could care less about the diamond program, Uber Pro, or any of it. I drive part time, but believe if this is truly a flexible gig they are selling I should see all relevant pickup information including but not limited to pick up, drop off, and projected upfront price and/or potential earnings. If i have somewhere else to be, I need to know all relevant information to determine if this trip will work for my schedule.

As it stands now, if a trip does not work I cancel it and politely apologize.

If a true market/marketplace argument is to be made, independent contractors should see relevant information before starting the trip. You cannot have it both ways.


----------



## gw03081958 (Jun 28, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


Whether it's a full time or part time it is still a major rip off for the drivers, both Uber and Lyft are taking advantage of many but I believe one day they will be forced to pay and pay big, the rates will go up to where the taxis were and those of us who hang in there will get the money we deserve. We should make much better money putting up with these idiots daily we have to transport not to mention a very expensive car expense they should be paying for, mark my word they will get what they deserve, the greed of both of these companies is really sickening but then again it is the USA where no one gives a crap about anyone else only their cash.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> I can't see destination but I can see the length of time a trip is and in what direction before I accept it....only because I'm a diamond driver....the catch is if I chose not to accept a few trips then I lose the ability to see the direction and time length of trips


Drivers shouldn't settle for anything less than being shown the ACTUAL pickup address and the ACTUAL destination address, period.

Being shown the direction and estimated arrival time is woefully inadequate.

Not knowing the mileage is a huge drawback, and being shown the general direction is a joke.

Being told the destination is NW could encompass a hundred square mile variation, and in a traffic clogged city such as DC, just a two block variation can mean more than 30 minutes extra travel time in gridlock.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The side-gig narrative was created to prevent the govt from regulating rideshare and possibly classifying drivers as employees.
> 
> Both companies have been justifiably worried that if the govt becomes aware of how heavily dependent both companies are on poorly paid full time drivers (most of whom qualify for public assistance), the govt will step in and regulate rideshare, including possibly classifying drivers as employees.
> 
> NYC and AB5 in California are examples.


Key point, poorly paid full t


Trafficat said:


> Those concepts are anti-free market.
> 
> There are reasons we do all those things, but not good reasons.


how is that you are a moderator! You say minimum wage laws in western society is not for a good reason! So like having someone work for you for free if laws and markets allow is fair game? Bet you wish you where born before the civil war I bet. Exploitation is fair game? Buying your way through bribes and disregard to all laws is free market? I am just trying to understand how someone with views like that is a moderator. Can you be a moderator and work for U/L as a PR/marketer and be allowed to be a moderator here. I am very curious!


----------



## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Drivers shouldn't settle for anything less than being shown the ACTUAL pickup address and the ACTUAL destination address, period.
> 
> Being shown the direction and estimated arrival time is woefully inadequate.
> 
> ...


In my area you can narrow down where you going base on time and direction...either Duke UNC or RDU air port


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> In my area you can narrow down where you going base on time and direction...either Duke UNC or RDU air port


First of all, I'm not interested in "narrowing down" where the destination is. I want the EXACT address as well as the mileage, ETA, and, PAYOUT for the trip BEFORE I accept, and I want at least 30 seconds to decide with ZERO penalty for declining trip requests.

Also, the pax may want to go somewhere OTHER than those two places, and if you're doing a pickup away from your home area, the "narrowing down" is of little help anyway.


----------



## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


It wasn't until recently that yber started the side gig narratives. Not my opinion it is something anyone with eyes ears and a memory longer then a bug can attest too.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> how is that you are a moderator! You say minimum wage laws in western society is not for a good reason! So like having someone work for you for free if laws and markets allow is fair game?


Apparently it is. I haven't received my moderator check in the mail yet. All moderation services have been provided for free. Imagine how little moderation would be happening on forums like this if every moderator had to be paid over minimum wage to do the work.



> Bet you wish you where born before the civil war I bet.


Seems kind of non-sequitur. But you would be incorrect, for a number of reasons. Slavery is anti-free market because violence is used by both the governments and the businesses to enforce slavery. The role of government in free market is simply to prevent the use of violence and make sure that transactions are done willfully by all parties.

I'm a big fan of John Brown, who tried, unsuccessfully, to start a slave revolt. If any one person was to blame for the civil war, he may have been the most culpable.












> Exploitation is fair game? Buying your way through bribes and disregard to all laws is free market?


Paying your way through bribes is anti-free market. Companies have to bribe officials to do business only because the market is not free. If there was a free market, the bribes would not be necessary because you could run a business without bribing politicians to allow it. If you agree to do the work and no one is forcing you, you aren't being exploited.



> I am just trying to understand how someone with views like that is a moderator. Can you be a moderator and work for U/L as a PR/marketer and be allowed to be a moderator here. I am very curious!


Good question. I never knew it was expected that a moderator by necessity must be a marxist. When someone offers me a cushy job as a joint company PR/marketer, I'd be willing to give up my unpaid moderator position.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> If you agree to do the work and no one is forcing you, you aren't being exploited.


That's nonsense.

Having leverage over workers and using it to treat them poorly is exploitation, even if no one is physically "forcing" them to do the work.

That's what the sweatshops were about. Taking advantage of the fact that poor people had very limited employment options by paying them bad wages and treating them harshly.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should do it.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> That's nonsense.
> 
> Having leverage over workers and using it to treat them poorly is exploitation, even if no one is physically "forcing" them to do the work.
> 
> ...


And why do people have limited employment options? Most likely because they live in a country where the government has very oppressive laws, regulations, and taxes on business. Where the only people who can start a factory are rich foreigners with lots of money to grease lots of palms. And they can get a lot of labor because they will pay the workers more than anyone else can, even though the wage is still terrible. There are not sweat shops in Hong Kong. There are sweat shops in mainland China. Hong Kong has been mostly free market, whereas mainland China has not been.

People choose to work in sweat shops because the wage is typically better than for other local opportunities. If you were an American company executive, what are the odds that you would open up a factory in a third world country and pay them the same wages that an American would make? Your company would fail because your competitors would undercut your prices. This is not a free market problem. This is a problem caused by the anti-free market laws where the sweat shops tend to exist.

If I could easily open up my own business, I wouldn't drive for Uber and Lyft. I only drive for Uber and Lyft because the government has made it so expensive to run my own businesses. I've tried to start many businesses and the government usually puts giant road blocks in front of each one. I've looked into starting businesses in many industries, but even in the industry of using your car to provide rides, I'd rather have my own taxi company if I could, but new taxi companies are basically impossible in my state.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> And why do people have limited employment options? Most likely because they live in a country where the government has very oppressive laws, regulations, and taxes on business. Where the only people who can start a factory are rich foreigners with lots of money to grease lots of palms. And they can get a lot of labor because they will pay the workers more than anyone else can, even though the wage is still terrible. There are not sweat shops in Hong Kong. There are sweat shops in mainland China. Hong Kong has been mostly free market, whereas mainland China has not been.
> 
> People choose to work in sweat shops because the wage is typically better than for other local opportunities.


There were very few govt regulations during the time of the sweatshops in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

There was a surplus of poor immigrants who would take any job they could get to keep from starving, and the sweatshops took unethical advantage of that situation.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> There were very few govt regulations during the time of the sweatshops in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
> 
> There was a surplus of poor immigrants who would take any job they could get to keep from starving, and the sweatshops took unethical advantage of that situation.


Why did the immigrants come to America instead of staying where they were? Do you think a law would have made their plight any better? Probably if they couldn't be paid low wages here they'd be worse off from whence they came. Otherwise they wouldn't have come. And if the laws required them to be paid large amounts, they wouldn't have had jobs.


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## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> And why do people have limited employment options? Most likely because they live in a country where the government has very oppressive laws, regulations, and taxes on business. Where the only people who can start a factory are rich foreigners with lots of money to grease lots of palms. And they can get a lot of labor because they will pay the workers more than anyone else can, even though the wage is still terrible. There are not sweat shops in Hong Kong. There are sweat shops in mainland China. Hong Kong has been mostly free market, whereas mainland China has not been.
> 
> People choose to work in sweat shops because the wage is typically better than for other local opportunities. If you were an American company executive, what are the odds that you would open up a factory in a third world country and pay them the same wages that an American would make? Your company would fail because your competitors would undercut your prices. This is not a free market problem. This is a problem caused by the anti-free market laws where the sweat shops tend to exist.


The limited employment opportunities in the united states is due to a lack of education and teaching of a salable skill all created be the Utopian ideology of morons.

We now have generations of skilless adults who cant understand what has happened, they were brought up being told everything must be even and fair, everything they do is creative genius, and they recieved trophies and ribbons, to back up the delusions broght on by a bunch of do gooders telling little johnny everthing he did was perfect! Fadt forward to reality and adulthood, no body gives a crap that little johnny won first place in finger painting and wonders why its on his resume next to Skills....


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Why did the immigrants come to America instead of staying where they were?


They were looking for a better life.

Those who were aware of the sweatshops nevertheless held out hope of eventually moving onto something better.. assuming they managed to to survive with their lives and health intact after working in dangerous conditions.



Trafficat said:


> Do you think a law would have made their plight any better?


I pointed out that your previous post blaming govt regulations for the plight of the sweatshop workers was factually incorrect, and now you're trying to shift your argument.

While I'm a strong supporter of having as few govt regulations as possible, I'm not an extremist.

Some regulations are necessary, including laws protecting workers.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> They were looking for a better life.
> 
> Those who were aware of the sweatshops nevertheless held out hope of eventually moving onto something better.. assuming they managed to to survive with their lives and health intact after working in dangerous conditions.


Moving onto something better, you say? Is that not what we call "social mobility?" Concepts like the minimum wage destroy social mobility. They cut off the lower rungs of the ladder. Increasingly in America, the wealth of your parents is a predictor of your own personal wealth. How could this be? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that no one can start a business, no one wants to hire anyone because every person they hire poses a huge risk (unemployment benefits, sexual harassment lawsuits) etc. No one with a criminal record can get decent work. Your race is now important than your merit. Your best strategy for getting a job is through nepotism.

Have a great idea that could be used to start a business? Well maybe, you can approach some rich people who will fund it for you and take most of your earnings from the idea. But you'll never afford the permits otherwise!



Nats121 said:


> I pointed out that your previous post blaming govt regulations for the plight of the sweatshop workers was factually incorrect, and now you're trying to shift your argument.


Incorrect. I was talking about sweat shops that currently exist. But massive waves of immigrants from times past also came to America because America had social mobility that other countries did not have. And that is because America did not have royalty, caste systems, guilds, and other anti-free market ideas that the other countries had. Back in that era, hat makers were protected in London, but in America anyone could make a hat. Economic opportunities were so bad elsewhere, that immigrating here to work in a sweat shop was a step up, not down. Today is DIFFERENT. People today do not (usually) move TO countries with sweat shops. People who work in sweat shops are locals who cannot leave, or come from even poorer areas that are even more mismanaged by government. In these countries, people do not expect to eventually do something better, because there generally is nothing better to move on to, because social mobility generally does not exist.

Today, a lot of that mobility that people came to America in order to work in a sweatshop for is gone. We may not have a hat maker's guild, but you need a license and a degree in cosmetology to legally cut someone's hair with a pair of scissors.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Concepts like the minimum wage destroy social mobility


That's debatable.


Trafficat said:


> Increasingly in America, the wealth of your parents is a predictor of your own personal wealth.


Family wealth has always been a predictor, that's nothing new.


Trafficat said:


> Maybe it has something to do with the fact that no one can start a business, no one wants to hire anyone because every person they hire poses a huge risk (unemployment benefits, sexual harassment lawsuits) etc


You should have stuck with the "maybe" part, because you drifted from maybe into the definitive statement that "no one wants to hire anyone because of such and such", which is false. Some do and some don't.


Trafficat said:


> No one with a criminal record can get decent work.


It's difficult but not impossible. There are some employers willing to give them a chance. Assuming your ideology is anti-liberal, it's the right-wingers who try to pass laws denying ex-cons the right to vote.


Trafficat said:


> Your race is now important than your merit.


That's been true since the day one in this country. It's less so now.


Trafficat said:


> Your best strategy for getting a job is through nepotism.


Nepotism has also been around forever.


Trafficat said:


> Incorrect. I was talking about sweat shops that currently exist


If you check my post, I referred to sweatshops in the past tense. Sweatshops of the past no longer exist in this country.


Trafficat said:


> America had social mobility that other countries did not have. And that is because America did not have royalty, caste systems, guilds, and other anti-free market ideas that the other countries had.


I'm opposed to all of those things. I'm also opposed to most occupational licensing which in many cases is nothing more than rent-seeking to protect incumbent businesses. That includes taxi medallions.



Trafficat said:


> Economic opportunities were so bad elsewhere, that immigrating here to work in a sweat shop was a step up, not down.


If working in a dangerous sweatshop is "upward mobility", that's an indictment against both the worker's country of origin and the US.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> If you check my post, I referred to sweatshops in the past tense. Sweatshops of the past no longer exist in this country.


But they still do exist in other countries. And they usually aren't free market bastions.



Nats121 said:


> It's difficult but not impossible. There are some employers willing to give them a chance. Assuming your ideology is anti-liberal, it's the right-wingers who try to pass laws denying ex-cons the right to vote.


I'd restore all your rights as you get out of prison, and hand you your gun back on the way out. I'm not sure if that makes me a right winger or a left winger. I don't ascribe to a left-right theory on politics. Communists and Fascists seem more alike than different to me.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

I'm a strong supporter of free-market economics, and I oppose the concept of anti-trust laws.

I lean libertarian, especially when it comes to the govt passing laws to protect people from themselves (drug laws).

But I'm not an extremist libertarian, which means I support a social safety net.

I also oppose open borders, illegal immigration, and high rates of legal immigration from the Third World.

Uber and lyft are unethical corrupt entities, and govt has helped them exploit the drivers by flooding this country with perpetually high numbers of Third World immigrants. Govt has also allowed these companies to violate independent contractor laws.

That's why I've been saying govt aided these companies in exploiting the drivers and only govt can end the exploitation.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Uber crafted the very wording of the rideshare laws in most states. It reeks of cronyism. Imagine the damage that could be done to Uber/Lyft and BigTaxi if rideshare drivers were allowed to accept street hails without giving any cut to any company.

The companies wouldn't take half the fare if they knew you could easily steal their clients by charging 2/3 as much.

Anyone with commercial liability insurance should automatically be allowed to pick up any passenger by any means legally. Imagine if you could legally use libretaxi app without worrying about a sting operation.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

touberornottouber said:


> It isn't good part time either when you only get one $3 ride an hour. The same issues at full time also exist at part time.


No. Part time you can cherry pick the repeating rides and only work the best times earning way more per hour and dealing with predictable behavior. No comparison.


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## HonoluluHoku (Jul 2, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Why did the immigrants come to America instead of staying where they were?


Because America wanted them to come and made it an easy choice for them, making the rest of your hypotheticals irrelevant.

Edit to add: No disrespect meant by the last seven words. When certain professed American ideals were part of U.S. immigration policy, the U.S. government said, "Come to America, where you can prosper from your hard work!" Those were heady times, full of optimism, hope, and community spirit - of being part of something greater, while keeping what made your group/family/tribe/ethnic group unique and weaving it into the fabric of the always-evolving new country. My native grandparents on one side married into the Swedish immigrants on the other; this type of ethnic interbreeding was repeated many times over, becoming _the_ common characteristic, and made the whole better for its many and varied parts.


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> If you agree to do the work and no one is forcing you, you aren't being exploited.


Not true. You can be exploited by means of deception, exaggeration, bait and switch, etc. Uber drivers are not forced, but they are coerced. They are exploited for profit.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

ZenUber said:


> Not true. You can be exploited by means of deception, exaggeration, bait and switch, etc. Uber drivers are not forced, but they are coerced. They are exploited for profit.


No, they are simply suckered because they can't understand basic arithmetic. There's an ass for every seat.


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## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> First of all, I'm not interested in "narrowing down" where the destination is. I want the EXACT address as well as the mileage, ETA, and, PAYOUT for the trip BEFORE I accept, and I want at least 30 seconds to decide with ZERO penalty for declining trip requests.
> 
> Also, the pax may want to go somewhere OTHER than those two places, and if you're doing a pickup away from your home area, the "narrowing down" is of little help anyway.


This may not be the gig for you....you should start your own


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## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Uber crafted the very wording of the rideshare laws in most states. It reeks of cronyism. Imagine the damage that could be done to Uber/Lyft and BigTaxi if rideshare drivers were allowed to accept street hails without giving any cut to any company.
> 
> The companies wouldn't take half the fare if they knew you could easily steal their clients by charging 2/3 as much.
> 
> Anyone with commercial liability insurance should automatically be allowed to pick up any passenger by any means legally. Imagine if you could legally use libretaxi app without worrying about a sting operation.


you can use libretaxi cuz stings dont pay in advance, much easier to just use uber lyft to network hand out cards to locals and text email square paypal gift cards etc

most cities chances of a sting are low & pretty easy to spot they dont like to work so they dont enforce the laws & will hang out at the popular spots for the low hanging fruit like airports, tourist traps trying to catch the cash drivers hacking for fares

money is in my account before i pick anyone up and its from a ride ive given before so were friends and neighbors at that point



Bobbyk5487 said:


> This may not be the gig for you....you should start your own


got a billion dollars to compete, will people use my app that doesn't charge predatory rates at $10+ minimums when illegal app next to it charges $7-8 & gives freebies, can I pay my drivers illegal wages from the 70s, I need millions per day marketing for a friggen cab company lmao people were mad at medallions costing so much that was mainly just ny everywher else you could start a cab company with a few thousand bucks & a car s lets call it 30K, a courier service less than a grand for permits & bikes or scooter rentals now you need billions to start a basic local business with engineers, web developers, software architectsm ... lmao

anti competitive 
predatory
illegal


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## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

SuperDumped said:


> you can use libretaxi cuz stings dont pay in advance, much easier to just use uber lyft to network hand out cards to locals and text email square paypal gift cards etc
> 
> most cities chances of a sting are low & pretty easy to spot they dont like to work so they dont enforce the laws & will hang out at the popular spots for the low hanging fruit like airports, tourist traps trying to catch the cash drivers hacking for fares
> 
> ...


Tell them you are ***ish...nobody ever tell them NO!!!...Just look at uber and lyft


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## uber_from_the north (Dec 19, 2017)

njn said:


>


5000 a month?

Am I doing something wrong? I barely make 2grand a month.

Me after reading the ads:


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


Did McDonalds come out and say that it isn't a full time job, it's for teens and part timers? That it isn't a career move?


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## HonoluluHoku (Jul 2, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> We may not have a hat maker's guild, but you need a license and a degree in cosmetology to legally cut someone's hair with a pair of scissors.


No, you certainly do not. Stop making things up.

As far as the onerous government regulations making things worse for immigrants, ask one of the survivors of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. ... Oh, wait, _you can't._


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

I never wanted to do "full-time" Uber, but I remember the glory days when I could switch on the app anytime day or night and make an quick easy $25-$40 in less than an hour (not counting tips), and I was only driving X. I did knew drivers who were doing it "full-time" and they were comfortable doing it.
But then the ants started piling up, and the surges started disappearing, and the rates started getting whacked, and the passengers started becoming non-tipping ghetto paxholes.
Then I became jaded. 
It was definitely never supposed to be a full time thing, unless your okay in this day & age with driving your vehicle into the ground 80+ hours a week for peanuts.


----------



## Misunderstood Pirate (Aug 25, 2017)

goneubering said:


> The mist successful drivers here seem to be the ones with a real job and then they do rideshare as a side hustle.


What's your definition of successful?


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## AtSki (Dec 28, 2017)

NYC, 2015.


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## Negg (Jun 26, 2019)

HonoluluHoku said:


> No, you certainly do not. Stop making things up.
> 
> As far as the onerous government regulations making things worse for immigrants, ask one of the survivors of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. ... Oh, wait, _you can't._


Yes yo do. Degree not so much, license yes. Shall I post a link with said info ? Lmk


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## imsam (Apr 10, 2017)

You Americans always **** everything up.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

When I started Lyft, they offered huge bonuses for completing a shitload of rides. I did over 100 Lyft rides per week (which is most definitely FULL TIME) and earned over $1k per month in bonuses alone.

You can't get the bonuses unless you do the rides. And you can't do the rides unless you are working full time.

Yes, it was intended to be full time for many drivers.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

There's no reason it cant be a full time gig paying $1,000 a week for 40 hours.

I used to get over $500 every weekend.


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## imsam (Apr 10, 2017)

Mista T said:


> When I started Lyft, they offered huge bonuses for completing a shitload of rides. I did over 100 Lyft rides per week (which is most definitely FULL TIME) and earned over $1k per month in bonuses alone.
> 
> You can't get the bonuses unless you do the rides. And you can't do the rides unless you are working full time.
> 
> Yes, it was intended to be full time for many drivers.


That argument is so weak.

And who tells you, you MUST do the bonuses? You wanted the bonuses. You chose to spend the extra time to finish the bonuses. You decided to do it full time.

If they demanded that you finish the bonuses, then you'll have a point that they make it to be full time but right now all the actions are done by your decisions.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

imsam said:


> That argument is so weak.
> 
> And who tells you, you MUST do the bonuses? You wanted the bonuses. You chose to spend the extra time to finish the bonuses. You decided to do it full time.
> 
> If they demanded that you finish the bonuses, then you'll have a point that they make it to be full time but right now all the actions are done by your decisions.


No one ever said anything about making demands.

The bonuses were offered as incentives, in order to INCENTIVIZE people to work FULL TIME, as the company wanted.


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## imsam (Apr 10, 2017)

Mista T said:


> No one ever said anything about making demands.
> 
> The bonuses were offered as incentives, in order to INCENTIVIZE people to work FULL TIME, as the company wanted.


No, they weren't only to incentivize for working full time. That's how you view it. If it's true, then people who don't drive much won't be offered those bonuses. But that's not the case in reality, people who drive only 3-4 hrs a day also get the bonuses. The reason is so they can get earn more on top of the fares. That's it.

You're spinning it to match your narrative.

It's like saying phone service providers are offering unlimited data plans because they want you to only use your phone's data to go online and max out the highest data you can use a month.

But that's not true. Another individual may use only 10 GB a month can also be on that unlimited plan all he wants and doesn't have to become a heavy user.


----------



## Melrose Crenshaw (Apr 5, 2019)

DRider85 said:


> Well I wanna get to the bottom of this. The people that say this sound like they're giving you an opinion. That's not what I'm interested in. I want literal facts. Did Uber ever say it's not supposed to be a full time gig? Again I'm not talking about common sense or your opinion. But I recall Travis saying it's for both full time and part time. I don't recall the company saying we don't suggest this full time.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the way the companies operate is in order to get the real bonuses you need to do it not just full time, but FULL FULL time. They rely on full time drivers. So where does it say that you're not supposed to work full time? Again I am not interested in your opinion or spin. I want to know where it says these things and then I will believe it if you can prove it. I'm not taking sides. But don't jump on a koolade unless you can provide the facts.


Uber has never restricted the gig to either full or part time. They certainly encourage full/overtime driving. Whenever someone says "but it was never meant to be full time job" they are breathing out meaningless words probably to prop up some empty argument.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

rkozy said:


> I can work whenever I want, and I can reject rides/passengers I don't want. At my W-2 job, I have to come in when they say so, and I have do exactly what they tell me.
> 
> I get the feeling you'd struggle as a W-2 employee, because you'd find something grossly unfair to protest in that setting as well.
> 
> ...


Uber and Lyft is not freelance work. It is independent contractor work. You're contracted to do the job for a long time, versus a freelancer doing a one-off project. 
Freelancers hope to build a base of repeat clients that come and go. ICs can operate as practically an extension of a company project or additional manpower.

Have you freelanced before?

That's a stretch to respond to a comment "U/L is not freelancing" to then disparage them saying they would struggle with a W-2 job.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> You're contracted to do the job for a long time, versus a freelancer doing a one-off project.


Contracted to do the job for a long time? LOL. Tell that to the 96 out of every 100 drivers who quit/get deactivated less than a year after they are "contracted for a long time" by Lyft and Uber.

This assignment can be over in a flash. Either you get sick of driving your car into the ground for pennies and delete the app for good...or, some pax has a bad day and decides to tell Uber you were drunk behind the wheel and you tried to grope them.

This is pure freelance, even if Uber and Lyft don't call it that. Every ride is a freelance affair. Once the ride is over, you may not get another ever again. Or, you may decide this isn't worth your time. Uber can't make you log back on if you decide to quit five days after starting.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> As a staunch conservative, would let it go to zero.
> 
> And no sympathy, whatsoever, for the uneducated, working class grunts who get stuck in that grind.
> 
> ...


You wouldn't drop the rates to zero/mile, though, as a businessman. And it is not being a *conservative*.
Don't conflate conservative principles with pitilessness or mercilessness. At best, you're making an exaggerated fantasy statement for your self-indulgence. At worst... I won't venure there.



rkozy said:


> Contracted to do the job for a long time? LOL. Tell that to the 96 out of every 100 drivers who quit/get deactivated less than a year after they are "contracted for a long time" by Lyft and Uber.
> This assignment can be over in a flash.
> ...
> This is pure freelance, even if Uber and Lyft don't call it that.


I realize I got into a fight over semantics, but I'll say it this way: This is not pure freelance. One you drop off Joe Blow your gig relationship isn't complete. It's not like hiring a mobile mechanic to do a car part switch.
It is an IC role where you are contracted to be able to be handed gigs. You might get Joe Blow and then Suzy Crackhead and then Aux Cord Girl and then mark_mark and all sorts of other weirdos. But the contract is still there if you want more passengers unless the company terminates it, not the other way around.

And I realize an independent contractor does not have a perpetual agreement for his or her contracted services, but an IC typically works for a client for a long time.

Freelancers typically want repeated gigs from the same client, but they do not have a standing contract.


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## HonoluluHoku (Jul 2, 2019)

Negg said:


> Yes yo do. Degree not so much, license yes. Shall I post a link with said info ? Lmk


Sure, I'll bite. Post a link that says unlicensed beauty school students can't cut hair.

I could be wrong. Maybe the law has changed, and cheap old futzes can't get low-cost haircuts by stopping in to the local Ecole de Cosmetologié.

Maybe. Maybe not. But I will never forgot that 1985 perm.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

Some additional info. This is on independent contractors versus independent consultants: https://www.mbopartners.com/blog/ho...dent-contractor-vs-an-independent-consultant/

With that said, I stand by my position that a gig freelancer differs from an independent contractor.

Of relevant interest, to be taken with a grain of salt: "The general rule is that workers are considered to be independent contractors if the client controls only the result of the work that is done, *not what or how it will be done."*


"You are not an independent contractor if *you perform services that can be controlled by an employer* (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed." -- per the IRS definition of an IC: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-defined , emphasis mine

So if that's unassailable as true by IRS standards, then what defines "how a job is done" in relation to customer relations with passengers, etc.? How much of a slippery slope is that? (How much of a slippery slope is my question presenting?)


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

nonononodrivethru said:


> Dara drinks wine spritzers.


I see him more of a hard cider guy


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

Kodyhead said:


> I see him more of a hard cider guy


White Claw?


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

nonononodrivethru said:


> White Claw?


I was thinking vintage cider lol, sometimes if he gets crazy, he will bust out some 1999 zima


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> Could you do ride share full time as your only source of income? Sure, in 2 scenarios: one, you drive 80 hours a week, or two, you have your finances perfectly in order - no debt, paid for car, cheap rent, no kids, etc.


When the streets are flooded with ants it's very difficult to do this full time. When Uber claimed it was possible to do this job full time there were not as many ants on the streets

Then they decided to flood the streets and now all of a sudden it's " we never said this was a full time job...


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## Negg (Jun 26, 2019)

HonoluluHoku said:


> Sure, I'll bite. Post a link that says unlicensed beauty school students can't cut hair.
> 
> I could be wrong. Maybe the law has changed, and cheap old futzes can't get low-cost haircuts by stopping in to the local Ecole de Cosmetologié.
> 
> Maybe. Maybe not. But I will never forgot that 1985 perm.


"We may not have a hat maker's guild, but you need a license and a degree in cosmetology to legally cut someone's hair with a pair of scissors".

Using the word legally here. Hell I can drive car without a license, is it legal ? Nope. I can babysit 10 kids with a license, it won't be legal.
If you want to cut hair "legally" you will need a license and this what this about.


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## RusDqD (Aug 8, 2019)

If it is claimed to be *flexible *and they do not allow to drive more than 12-14 hours per day I do not see any reason that it can not be full time occupation for somebody!

Without full timers their business model will not work out.

It was not supposed that driver will sponsor autonomous vehicle development.
And it was not supposed that drivers will sponsor creating uber bank.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> Have a tip jar set up


Isn't that a bit crass? We ain't waiters. sheesh.



rkozy said:


> Why do some drivers here want to put all their eggs in the rideshare basket?


perhaps a big chunk of us are retired and only doing this for the schedule and some extra cash (and no taxable income)? As a pax myself most of my drivers are retired as well...so far...
I make far more in 'unearned income' than I do with Uber. :biggrin:


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

SHalester said:


> We ain't waiters.


We're worse.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> We're worse


Wasn't one of the key benefits of Uber over a taxi back in the day was NO tip required? I'm old enough to remember. :frown: With waiters their pay is BASED on the fact they get tips.
Myself not sure how i feel about tips. I get them, never sure why. As a pax I always tip something as a rule, but then again I'm usually on vacation and have entire family with me.......


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

SHalester said:


> Wasn't one of the key benefits of Uber over a taxi back in the day was NO tip required?


Because back in the day drivers made more than $2 per mile and it was a great selling point for fUber.


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

Correction. It is a full time thing. Just not a full time income.



rkozy said:


> The debate will always rage as to whether Uber is a full-time gig, or merely a supplemental source of income.
> 
> I guess that's why this "job" is something I don't mind doing, because it can be whatever I choose it to be. My actual W-2 job is working in fleet logistics/re-marketing for a rental car company. During June and July we get very slow, and since my position is on-call, my hours there went from 30 per week down to 15 per week. Because Uber doesn't issue me a weekly schedule, I was able to backfill those lost hours from the rental car company with my earnings from Uber.
> 
> ...


Wear and tear are calculable. Uber relys on you not calculating all your costs. Otherwise you would not turn up!


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

simont23 said:


> Wear and tear are calculable. Uber relys on you not calculating all your costs. Otherwise you would not turn up!


I think you misunderstand. When I say wear and tear costs are incalculable, I mean that it is impossible to come up with an exact figure, since many people also use their Uber car for personal errands and vacations. It DOES NOT mean that I ignore the repair costs for things that can be directly attributable to Uber versus those they may be not be.

Before doing Uber, I drove very little and only needed two oil changes per year. Now, I need six per year. That means of my 66% of my oil change costs are directly attributable to Uber, since I was getting four less oil changes in years prior. That is an easy one to calculate.

Alternators? Water pumps? Wheel bearings? Those things also wore out/stopped working when I wasn't driving for Uber. It's very likely some of those things were going to happen regardless of additional mileage. It's more difficult to pin down an exact cost on those items.


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