# Travis combats driver retention



## westsidebum

*How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
By Amir Efrati

Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT

As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.

The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.

Whole article here by subscription

https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn

My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


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## Buckiemohawk

It will never change, until they realize something cabs did. Drivers have to make money. You can't saturate the market and you can't let people rule the drivers car.


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## CvilleUber

They don't care about retention - there's thousands of new drivers every day.


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## JimS

By the time everyone in the USA tries to drive for Uber, and they are either turned away because of their background check, drive a few and quit, or are moderately successful, they'll no longer need drivers - for one reason or another.


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## Drivincrazy

Doesn't take long to figure out what a losing proposition it is, especially if you are fully legal...rideshare endorsement, business licenses etc.


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## albertphx

I think the popular proverb "an leopard can't change its spots" applies here.
As long as Travis is the one in charge, any improvements for the drivers would be
because he might figure out that self driving cars is further away than he thought.
The Waymo lawsuit, depending on outcome can hinder their robot car efforts.
I mean, he never really shown he gives an sh#* about the drivers, why the change of
heart all of an sudden?


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## uberdriverfornow

When Travis himself stopped using his service, it publicly cemented his disdain for drivers.


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## westsidebum

albertphx said:


> he might figure out that self driving cars is further away than he thought.
> The Waymo lawsuit, depending on outcome can hinder their robot car efforts.


I have long thought the self driving car hype was just a way for uber to justify driver abuse and prevent drivers from organizing. Uber wants the public and drivers to think resistance is futile because uber will replace you in a few years. All hype...useful also to mask the degree to which uber actually depends on drivers primarily to drive its growth. Uber has very low capital costs by getting drivers to use own cars, and front expenses such as gas, and time with no guarantee of recouping expenses much less a return on investment. By attacking drivers and grinding them down uber keeps drivers on the defensive and masks its on vulnerability on the drivers it wages war on. Call it a well planned offense.


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## Kodyhead

The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers. The majority will still not tip maybe some will change but i believe if you are not getting tips now, you will not be getting tbat much more in tips when they add it. At least not a career changing difference


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## westsidebum

Kodyhead said:


> The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers.


Uber does not give,rats ass about drivers. Uber has an image problem that,centers on Travis so going forward it is,important for uber and its investors for Travis to be seen as dealing with this issue. The public band aid to his dissing the uber black driver on video.

More importantly venture capitalists are starting to publicly raise the issue of low driver retention and ubers viability long term. The paradox is ubers hyper growth is based on exploiting drivers and their auto assets, but if uber can not demonstrate that it can retain drivers it fails in one of the key matrices in a businesses viability which is labor retention rate and demonstrating sustainable labor (driver)costs...


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## Fuzzyelvis

westsidebum said:


> Subscribe to Read
> EXCLUSIVE
> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


I'm not paying $40 just to read an article. Can't you copy and paste it here?


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## Aztek98

In app tipping and whatever BS they come up with for long distance trips wont be enogh but it will be a start.

Heres a clue. Raise the rates and beat taxis on service.

Its not hard.....


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## Trump Economics

westsidebum said:


> Subscribe to Read
> EXCLUSIVE
> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
*George Orwell, 1984*


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Alright... I'll be honest, getting paid to get TO people a pickup location could be very nice,

50c a mile to get to pickup locations and $1.00 a mile on trip and i might actually be back onboard with uber...

That's what it would take.


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## Graham_DC

westsidebum said:


> Subscribe to Read
> EXCLUSIVE
> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Once they add tipping option for NY market they'll have to do it for the rest of the country. ...Right?


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## Maven

Graham_DC said:


> Once they add tipping option for NY market they'll have to do it for the rest of the country. ...Right?


Nope. And it's only NYC not NYS. If Travis does implement nationwide then you can bet it will be used to suppress more important driver demands like decent pay, employee status, decent Phase-1 insurance, etc. Uber may even take a cut of Tips as a "processing fee" or use tips to justify reducing driver pay further.


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## Jagent

Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


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## Kodyhead

westsidebum said:


> Uber does not give,rats ass about drivers. Uber has an image problem that,centers on Travis so going forward it is,important for uber and its investors for Travis to be seen as dealing with this issue. The public band aid to his dissing the uber black driver on video.
> 
> More importantly venture capitalists are starting to publicly raise the issue of low driver retention and ubers viability long term. The paradox is ubers hyper growth is based on exploiting drivers and their auto assets, but if uber can not demonstrate that it can retain drivers it fails in one of the key matrices in a businesses viability which is labor retention rate and demonstrating sustainable labor (driver)costs...


I agree with most of what you said. But there has to be something right travis is doing that these changes havent taken place. Mlst likely that he is the boss and assume majority shareholder



Jagent said:


> Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


Little higher than i was thinking and i kinda like charging more for the first mile some where in there too.


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## tohunt4me

westsidebum said:


> Subscribe to Read
> EXCLUSIVE
> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Everything Travis Does combats Retention !!!!

NO NEED TO TIP !

RATE CUTS MEANS MORE MONEY !


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## Kodyhead

tohunt4me said:


> Everything Travis Does combats Retention !!!!
> 
> NO NEED TO TIP !
> 
> RATE CUTS MEANS MORE MONEY !


I do think they will raise rates and add a tipping option soon, but similar to many other companies I worked for, comes at a cost like higher commission, so maybe a $0.20/mile increase with a new tipping option but now the commission is 30-35%

When I was in sales, every time they changed the commission program, they claimed they did it so we can make more money, but my paycheck always got smaller. lol I would expect the same with Uber


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## tohunt4me

I'm making g 90¢ a mile in a War Zone SHOOTING GALLERY !

ANOTHER TAXI DRIVER WAS MURDERED THIS WEEKEND

AN UBER DRIVER SHOT 1 OF 2 CARJACKERS 3 WEEKS AGO !

THE STREETS LOOK MORE BOMBED OUT THAN AFGHANISTAN !

18¢ A MINUTE. 90¢ A MILE BEFORE UBERS CUT. BEFORE EXPENSES.

NO NEED TO TIP !



Maven said:


> Nope. And it's only NYC not NYS. If Travis does implement nationwide then you can bet it will be used to suppress more important driver demands like decent pay, employee status, decent Phase-1 insurance, etc. Uber may even take a cut of Tips as a "processing fee" or use tips to justify reducing driver pay further.


Burned at the stake comes to mind.


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## villetta

Jagent said:


> Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


A) you'll end up with the next app du jour claiming to be cheaper, just as uber has done to taxis (and limo, black car, shuttles, and even charter buses) 
B) if uber did raise their fares, and does not limit drivers, it won't matter what your rates are because there are a limited number of potential passengers at any given time. So, woo-hoo each driver gets one or two trips a day, and still isn't making a livelihood.


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## Jagent

villetta said:


> A) you'll end up with the next app du jour claiming to be cheaper, just as uber has done to taxis (and limo, black car, shuttles, and even charter buses)
> B) if uber did raise their fares, and does not limit drivers, it won't matter what your rates are because there are a limited number of potential passengers at any given time. So, woo-hoo each driver gets one or two trips a day, and still isn't making a livelihood.


A - No you won't, because no one will drive for them. Uber is the only game in town and is having a huge problem with driver retention and cherry picking.

B- I would rather do 2 profitable rides per day than 15 where I lose money.

Uber was doing fine two years ago. Rates were decent. There is no reason for these idiotic low fares.


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## villetta

Jagent said:


> A - No you won't, because no one will drive for them. Uber is the only game in town and is having a huge problem with driver retention and cherry picking.
> 
> B- I would rather do 2 profitable rides per day than 15 where I lose money.
> 
> Uber was doing fine two years ago. Rates were decent. There is no reason for these idiotic low fares.


Uber claims to be a "gig", and they claim most of their drivers drive less than 10 hours per week. That's the ruse they use to ply public support.

A) let me point out that uber is still finding people to drive, even at rates that do not cover the costs of driving for hire, and do not compensate for the drivers' time.

As you stated, at current rates it doesn't matter how many trips you get at these low rates, you're still losing money.

B) it's all about the app du juor marketing lower rates and claiming the largest rider market share. Uber's greatest claim to fame is their marketing, which has been genius, and I'm sure at millions of dollars, a level that few companies can compete with. Certainly not, the hundreds of mom and pop taxi businesses across the US


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Jagent said:


> B- I would rather do 2 profitable rides per day than 15 where I lose money.


Sunday morning i did 2 taxi trips to the airport.

$50 from the suburbs and $40 from a hotel.

That shift I ran $285 revenue $180 profit, which is 64% profit to me...(driving someone elses car)
So those 2 (Very) profitable trips earned me.. $32 and $26

Had those been uber X trips the driver payout would have been about $11 and $13 each minus tolls and mileage costs. With an hour in between.

Those two trips came very close to covering my expenses on the whole shift, and alone probobly amounted to more profit than driving uber all night would have.

You can't make up lower prices with higher volume.


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## Kodyhead

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Sunday morning i did 2 taxi trips to the airport.
> 
> $50 from the suburbs and $40 from a hotel.
> 
> That shift I ran $285 revenue $180 profit, which is 64% profit to me...(driving someone elses car)
> So those 2 (Very) profitable trips earned me.. $32 and $26
> 
> Had those been uber X trips the driver payout would have been about $11 and $13 each minus tolls and mileage costs. With an hour in between.


Out of curiosity could you break down the $105, which I imagine is fuel and the fee to get the car on the road


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## tohunt4me

Jagent said:


> A - No you won't, because no one will drive for them. Uber is the only game in town and is having a huge problem with driver retention and cherry picking.
> 
> B- I would rather do 2 profitable rides per day than 15 where I lose money.
> 
> Uber was doing fine two years ago. Rates were decent. There is no reason for these idiotic low fares.


Uber has destroyed itself for drivers.
FIX IT TILL ITS BROKE !

NO NEED TO TIP !



Kodyhead said:


> I do think they will raise rates and add a tipping option soon, but similar to many other companies I worked for, comes at a cost like higher commission, so maybe a $0.20/mile increase with a new tipping option but now the commission is 30-35%
> 
> When I was in sales, every time they changed the commission program, they claimed they did it so we can make more money, but my paycheck always got smaller. lol I would expect the same with Uber


Uber has already raised rates .
FOR THEMSELVES !
SNEAKILY
WITH UP FRONT PRICING. CUTTING DRIVERS OUT OF THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THE FARE !!!


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## I_Like_Spam

CvilleUber said:


> They don't care about retention - there's thousands of new drivers every day.


For now, perhaps.

But sooner rather than later, the pond will dry up.

Beanie Babies were pretty popular 20 years ago, just like Uber Partnering is today. The market collapsed for the dolls, and will for this as well.

I remember just a few years ago, before Uber came on the scene, most of the people today who are Uber Partners wouldn't have been caught dead behind the wheel of a taxi.


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## Jermin8r89

Why does it matter? Everyone is getting in on SDVs cuz humans are humans we dont make big buisnesses good enough money. Get ready to make less money the more time goes on


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick

westsidebum said:


> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Yap, yap, yap. Can't wait for Uber's autonomous automobiles. Then all I have to do is listen to my engineers and mechanics complain.


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## renod babek

Every time I look at your cities, google always shows at least 6Ubers & same or more lyfts available.


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## Lee239

Buckiemohawk said:


> It will never change, until they realize something cabs did. Drivers have to make money. You can't saturate the market and you can't let people rule the drivers car.


exactly, you can't let passengers threaten drivers to make a stop or else they will rate you a 1 and then complain about professionalism, nav, and safety as a weapon against you. Luckily it's a junky job, and it's like getting fired from McD only you make less money. I drive you from point a to b we are not your palls who take you to the convenience store and wait for 9 cents.


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## Red Leader

Another example of a poorly written article.


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## Oscar Levant

Jagent said:


> Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


No, just raise the rate close to what local taxis are charging. In my city, taxis charge $3 per mile, and $30 per hour waiting time ( below 12 mph ). So, a rate of 75% of this would help me pay for my vehicle expenses. Also, get rid of the surge. All it does is stop pings, they slow down when it happens in my city, and when I chase the heatmap, it disappears when I arrive. So, it's basically an ineffective concept, and all it does is alienate people.

Also, revert back to publishing what the UberX rate of fair being charged to rider is, and basing the drivers' percentage on that. Today, they are engaging in deception by telling us we are receiving 80%, when in truth, it is more like 60%.

Get rid of the star rating system, people are more than just a number.


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## Lee239

villetta said:


> Uber claims to be a "gig", and they claim most of their drivers drive less than 10 hours per week. That's the ruse they use to ply public support.


Driver do drive less than 1o hours a week, but they have to have the app online for 84 hours to do it. So basically they are on call for free, work for a few bucks an hour revenue and zero profit.


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## Cableguynoe

Lee239 said:


> Driver do drive less than 1o hours a week, but they have to have the app online for 84 hours to do it. So basically they are on call for free, work for a few bucks an hour revenue and zero profit.


Completely agree. They're probably just counting the time after we accept a ride. But not the hours of being online waiting for a ride.


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## Andretti

westsidebum said:


> Uber does not give,rats ass about drivers. Uber has an image problem that,centers on Travis so going forward it is,important for uber and its investors for Travis to be seen as dealing with this issue. The public band aid to his dissing the uber black driver on video.
> 
> More importantly venture capitalists are starting to publicly raise the issue of low driver retention and ubers viability long term. The paradox is ubers hyper growth is based on exploiting drivers and their auto assets, but if uber can not demonstrate that it can retain drivers it fails in one of the key matrices in a businesses viability which is labor retention rate and demonstrating sustainable labor (driver)costs...


An excellent and accurate post.

I heartily agree!



Kodyhead said:


> I agree with most of what you said. But there has to be something right travis is doing that these changes havent taken place. Mlst likely that he is the boss and assume majority shareholder


Perhaps.

But I think most likely the bad press is working in bringing attention to driver dissatisfaction and poor driver retention, leading to possible sustainability concerns. Investors may be looking closer at outside sources and investigating these issues deeper, rather than accepting Travis' data.


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## Trebor

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Double the rates Travis to that of at least 2 years ago, and I could care less about tipping. Raise them to that of a Taxi and I will go buy a brand spanking new car today!



westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


How is this a featured article and I have to pay for a subscription to read it? This article is written by a "Amir Efrati". With that name, I wouldnt be surprised if his sources are some of our fellow drivers. 



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Alright... I'll be honest, getting paid to get TO people a pickup location could be very nice,
> 
> 50c a mile to get to pickup locations and $1.00 a mile on trip and i might actually be back onboard with uber...
> 
> That's what it would take.


but only on long pickups. So maybe 20 minutes away or more.

I bet, if the min. ride cost the rider $10, even though the rates are still the same, you will see a lot of drivers leaving the airport and trying to get short rides in town.


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## Tippy711

I think it's just Uber properganda. Information (news) released by Uber to quell the driver's a little. Something they never really plan on doing.


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## Yam Digger

westsidebum said:


> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Yup. That's it right there in a nutshell.



Kodyhead said:


> The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers. The majority will still not tip maybe some will change but *i believe if you are not getting tips now, you will not be getting tbat much more in tips when they add it.* At least not a career changing difference


Pax have gotten so used to not tipping us, it's hard for me to see them throwing a few extra bones out way when the feature gets added


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## ABC123DEF

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


I think he makes everything way too complicated and overthinks everything. Sometimes less is more.


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## Kodyhead

westsidebum said:


> Uber does not give,rats ass about drivers. Uber has an image problem that,centers on Travis so going forward it is,important for uber and its investors for Travis to be seen as dealing with this issue. The public band aid to his dissing the uber black driver on video.
> 
> More importantly venture capitalists are starting to publicly raise the issue of low driver retention and ubers viability long term. The paradox is ubers hyper growth is based on exploiting drivers and their auto assets, but if uber can not demonstrate that it can retain drivers it fails in one of the key matrices in a businesses viability which is labor retention rate and demonstrating sustainable labor (driver)costs...


I agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that adding the tipping feature will flood the market with returning drivers and make it worse for us as far as saturation


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## SurgeWarrior

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Too late fk face! You upset the drivers and by putting a tipping feature that your competitor already has isnt going to change a thing..btw, this whole idea by some posters that adding a tip feature will keep them in diamonds and furs is just crazy, pax arent interested in tipping and if Uber jacks the fares now it will upset the paxs! The only solution, big rate hike to pull your drivers back from lyft...but it will be dead until the pax get tired of waiting around for lyft drivers...Uber , you caused a real mess, deal with it!


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## roadman

Travis might want to try to do some good for once in his life before he gets taken out.


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## Kodyhead

SurgeWarrior said:


> Too late fk face! You upset the drivers and by putting a tipping feature that your competitor already has isnt going to change a thing..btw, this whole idea by some posters that adding a tip feature will keep them in diamonds and furs is just crazy, pax arent interested in tipping and if Uber jacks the fares now it will upset the paxs! The only solution, big rate hike to pull your drivers back from lyft...but it will be dead until the pax get tired of waiting around for lyft drivers...Uber , you caused a real mess, deal with it!


I agree, if you aren't doing anything to get tips now, I don't think a tipping feature will make this a career changing event for you, Sure you will get $1, $2, $3, here and there but at the end of the week may only add up to $20 if you drive 40 hours

There is a bad problem with Saturation right now, so adding a tipping feature, will probably just make things worse as many drivers who quit, but never deleted the app, may come back to test things out again, only adding to my problem that there is 8 lux and 8 X cars within mile of me all day.


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## leroy jenkins

Things that will lower driver churn, but will NEVER, EVER happen because Uber will lose SRF + commission...

Raise driver's income. D'uh.

By:

a) raising minimum fare,
b) mandatory minimum surge during rush hour and Saturday nights,
c) limit online drivers to XXXX at any given time depending on the day/time and location----offline drivers would have to queue until an online driver logs off.

Again. this will never happen because Uber/Lyft have the best of all worlds. Plenty of drivers willing to be online at any time and guaranteed safe rider fee + vacuuming up every possible ride when drivers over-saturate markets.

If you haven't figured it out---Uber-Lyft's interests are not the same as your interests.


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## tryingforthat5star

Best thing Uber could have done IMO was bought out Lyft and shut it down.. No price comparing the two, no Lyft counter acting Uber moves etc.. Uber could have set there rates at what they wanted and gave the drivers what they want now there stuck IMO always watching there moves on what Lyft will do to help dethrone them aka the whole JFK boycott thing and delete Uber. Travis most likely like other big companies laughed it off thinking Lyft would never be big enough to hurt his company but the reality is he has to constantly watch what Lyft will do next to under cut him.


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## blackjackross

Kodyhead said:


> The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers. The majority will still not tip maybe some will change but i believe if you are not getting tips now, you will not be getting tbat much more in tips when they add it. At least not a career changing difference


Good point. I was also thinking that at least initially, a lot of former drivers will return if/when tipping is implemented. I don't see that adding more than 5-10% to a driver's weekly wages ( if you're lucky). That is probably the quickest and cheapest way for Travis to increase the numbers of Uber vehicles on the road. In the short run, it's cheaper than paying new drivers $500 incentives. Also, buys Uber some short term goodwill from the drivers. In the long run, much to do about nothing.


----------



## UsedToBeAPartner

I don't need "in app" tipping (taxes collected on every tip), I need a living wage. If I do a good job the pax will tip me and that's a nice bonus. However, getting paid less than minimum wage and trying to supplement it with tips is not a reasonable expectation.
Wake up Travis! I know you HATE your drivers but between now and the time you get your driverless cars working and your flying taxi's working you are pretty much stuck with us! Pay us like you care every so slightly.


----------



## Shine'ola

Aztek98 said:


> In app tipping and whatever BS they come up with for long distance trips wont be enogh but it will be a start.
> 
> Heres a clue. Raise the rates and beat taxis on service.
> 
> Its not hard.....


now thats just stupid, in Orlando the only ones driving for free (lowest rates in the country) don't speak English and can not follow GPS, the riders hate the drivers and the POS cars but love going 30 miles to the airport for $20, slavery was a good thing and I am glad Travis brought it back here to it's home in the USA ! Who cares about service ? Lower rates, horrible cars, and illegals driving is how to dominate any business.


----------



## Kodyhead

leroy jenkins said:


> If you haven't figured it out---Uber-Lyft's interests are not the same as your interests.


To be fair though that applies to all companies not just uber or lyft



Shine'ola said:


> now thats just stupid, in Orlando the only ones driving for free (lowest rates in the country) don't speak English and can not follow GPS, the riders hate the drivers and the POS cars but love going 30 miles to the airport for $20, slavery was a good thing and I am glad Travis brought it back here to it's home in the USA ! Who cares about service ? Lower rates, horrible cars, and illegals driving is how to dominate any business.


G


----------



## Kodyhead

blackjackross said:


> Good point. I was also thinking that at least initially, a lot of former drivers will return if/when tipping is implemented. I don't see that adding more than 5-10% to a driver's weekly wages ( if you're lucky). That is probably the quickest and cheapest way for Travis to increase the numbers of Uber vehicles on the road. In the short run, it's cheaper than paying new drivers $500 incentives. Also, buys Uber some short term goodwill from the drivers. In the long run, much to do about nothing.


All I know is there is always a cost when they do something like this as they are saying in the news. I do think they will raise rates, add a tipping option and perhaps other things as well but will raise the commission to 35%

Look what they did with the tipping issue before. they changed TIP IS INCLUDED to TIPS ARE NOT INCLUDED BUT NOT EXPECTED OR REQUIRED. I honestly would of been good with the NOT REQUIRED part, but NOT EXPECTED is just another spit in the face by uber and the new phrase is equally if not worse IMO

I have worked for companies before and whenever they changed the commission program, they always said it was so we can make more money, but my paycheck got smaller everytime.

I see the same with Uber, they will raise rates and add a tipping feature but now I won't get any calls since thousands of drivers came back.


----------



## dbla

This forum needs a mythical unicorn section as this article qualifies for that... in a world where uber raises rates adds tipping and makes drivers happy is where unicorns that fart gold and rainbows with pots of gold at the end of them exist


----------



## Elmo Burrito

Jagent said:


> Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


Profit? I don't think they know what that is. How else could a start up company lose 3 billion dollars in one year? All they care about is putting the competition out of business at any cost!


----------



## Maven

dbla said:


> This forum needs a mythical unicorn section as this article qualifies for that... in a world where uber raises rates adds tipping and makes drivers happy is where unicorns that fart gold and rainbows with pots of gold at the end of them exist


Already have https://uberpeople.net/forums/Autonomous/Unfortunately, the Unicorns become real in a few short years. 


Elmo Burrito said:


> Profit? I don't think they know what that is. How else could a start up company lose 3 billion dollars in one year? All they care about is putting the competition out of business at any cost!


Uber's primary goal is now and has always been maximizing market share. It's worked! The investors are nervously awaiting the IPO when they can cash out using Uber's estimated $70 billion valuation, many times their investment. And when self-driving cars become reality, Uber can finally become profitable.


----------



## Charismatic Megafauna

The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."


----------



## winrich7

uber sucks


----------



## Adieu

Travis defeated driver retention!!

Driver retention is no more!!!!!


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Tips may bring back some drivers, but it still won't be worth it.

I hope someones "Service Pit Bull Animal" rips his left knee cap off.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

Kodyhead said:


> Out of curiosity could you break down the $105, which I imagine is fuel and the fee to get the car on the road


$105
total

$5 credit card processing fees
$10 in highway tolls
$66 for taxi rental
$23 for gasoline


----------



## Kodyhead

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> $105
> total
> 
> $5 credit card processing fees
> $10 in highway tolls
> $66 for taxi rental
> $23 for gasoline


I didn't realize you had to pay the CC processing fees, is it a flat fee per shift or does it scale on how much you earned?

Out of curiosity how are the tolls calculated? Do they go into the sunpass account and add it up?

I have heard that on some shifts they practically give away the cabs, where on the scale or low and high is $66 for a 12 hour shift I assume is it?

Thanks


----------



## _McUber_

Uber certainly messed up the Taxi business. In NYC very few drivers can claim they are making any meaningful income and not without enormous stress. Most drivers are scrambling to survive, and those with multiple children are fkd and stuck in a quandary beyond salvation. After psychologically training the masses not to tip, the feature is useless. Rasing prices will not happen in the tug of war with Lyft, Juno and Gett. The current situation is of Uber's making. Autonomous cars are a pipe dream in NYC or any city of its complexity. Today Uber is one gargantuan fkup. There's no solution especially with its mad man at the top. They are capitalizing on two and only two factors: one is the gullibility of new drivers. Two, on the helplessness of the seasoned drivers. Most are stuck in a rut. As a matter of fact there are criminal minds inside Uber at this moment searching every quadrant of their brains to make life even harder on all drivers because this is one way to slow the exodus of drivers while they use their doublespeak that they are trying to help drivers make more money. The current slumbering economy of this country is aiding this most malignant, most evil company to continue. Problem: Income Ubering is not sustainable for most drivers. Neither it is sustainable for Uber itself to make profit. Expectation: The bubble will burst sooner or later. It happened before and will happen again as long as greed rules the day. Silicon valley is more saturated with Gordon Gekkos than the streets of New York with haggard Uber drivers. And as just the same for the poor Taxi drivers who lost on their medallion investments, all uber drivers will emerge royally fkd from this endless dark tunnel. Investors will have their day for supporting this most unethical structure. I don't know how many family lives in NYC were ruined because of Travis, but I know at least one driver intimately whose life is down the drain. While no longer drive for Uber, and has less than 60 days before quitting driving altogether for good, repairing life will take a long time. Let Travis take responsibility for his own $hit while each driver old and new strives for a way out. Uber is a horrible endeavor. Not sure how many naive souls out there still think otherwise.


----------



## Ogbootsy

Tips will not make one difference...... UberPools which they promote don't tip...


----------



## Kodyhead

Ogbootsy said:


> Tips will not make one difference...... UberPools which they promote don't tip...


It will make a difference, just not what people expect I think. I think you will make maybe another 5% of fares in tips. So lets say you are doing about $300 a week and don't do that well in tips, and get about $20 a week in tips, another 5% is about another $15, which is basically 1 decent fare. It isn't going to be anything life or career changing raise or anything. If you are not getting tips or making any effort now, I don't think it will change any better for you when they add it.


----------



## KenJ

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> ...
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Very true!


----------



## Veju

I'd say 80% of every lyft ride I do has at least $1 tacked on in tips. If you're doing 100 rides a week that does add up.while not being an income game changer, it does help subsidize operating costs.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Kodyhead said:


> It will make a difference, just not what people expect I think. I think you will make maybe another 5% of fares in tips. So lets say you are doing about $300 a week and don't do that well in tips, and get about $20 a week in tips, another 5% is about another $15, which is basically 1 decent fare. It isn't going to be anything life or career changing raise or anything. If you are not getting tips or making any effort now, I don't think it will change any better for you when they add it.


Exactly. Who doesn't want an extra $20-40 in their pocket?


----------



## Jagent

If Uber ever adds tips, (and that's a huge if), I'm sure the option will be accompanied by text that says, 

"TIPS ARE NOT EXPECTED, NOR REQUIRED. DO NOT FEEL OBLIGATED TO TIP YOUR DRIVER."

Then Uber will use tips as an excuse to either cut fares, take a bigger percentage or, at the very least, never raise fares.


----------



## Profiteer

Raise the rates. Pay Drivers more. Take less of a % cut. That will go a long way to keep drivers.

Uber/Lyft charges 2/3 what a Taxi costs here in Las Vegas. They could raise the rates to HALF A TAXI and still retain business.

Tipping is pretty common in Vegas. With or with-out an option on the app.
Its a "service" City after-all.
I get cash tips at least 1 of every 3 rides


----------



## Cableguynoe

Jagent said:


> If Uber ever adds tips, (and that's a huge if), I'm sure the option will be accompanied by text that says,
> 
> "TIPS ARE NOT EXPECTED, NOR REQUIRED. DO NOT FEEL OBLIGATED TO TIP YOUR DRIVER."
> 
> Then Uber will use tips as an excuse to either cut fares, take a bigger percentage or, at the very least, never raise fares.


While that sounds like something Uber would do, I actually think if they do add it (again this is a huge IF), it'll be the complete opposite.
They'll make it sounds like they love their drivers and want to take care of them. Like a guy that beats his wife then brings her flowers and tells her how much he loves her. They'll make it seem like they've always been looking out for us.


----------



## PTUber

Ogbootsy said:


> Tips will not make one difference...... UberPools which they promote don't tip...


I was all on board with needing the tip option until I started to drive Lyft as well as Uber. Now I'm kind of torn. Although cash tips aren't real frequent on Uber they are usually $5-$10 with the occasional $20. Lyft PAX may tip more often but not as much as I would have thought and its usually just a $1 or $2. Not to mention cash is king!


----------



## Cableguynoe

PTUber said:


> I was all on board with needing the tip option until I started to drive Lyft as well as Uber. Now I'm kind of torn. Although cash tips aren't real frequent on Uber they are usually $5-$10 with the occasional $20. Lyft PAX may tip more often but not as much as I would have thought and its usually just a $1 or $2. Not to mention cash is king!


But don't you do at least 3 times as many Uber rides as Lyft?
If so, those $1-2 tips will add up.


----------



## PTUber

Many of you think that there is a unlimited amount of new drivers out there as well as old drivers coming back if a tip feature is added. I'm thinking not. Most who left are gone for good for many reasons to long to list here and the pool of new drivers is slowly drying up. I think Uber and Lyft thought the same way but are now realizing it's just not true. They have the demand but may not be able to meet it. Look at the incentives for new drivers they are implementing the latest I got from Lyft was $2.50 per ride given up to $800.00 in 60 days. They are feeling the pain and need to do something quick. I'm just hoping it is the year of the driver. Believe me I know it's not because they woke up and said "Oh the poor drivers we need to treat them better" it's strictly business and survival.



Cableguynoe said:


> But don't you do at least 3 times as many Uber rides as Lyft?
> If so, those $1-2 tips will add up.


That's fair. Part of the reason I'm torn on the subject.


----------



## Jagent

PTUber said:


> Many of you think that there is a unlimited amount of new drivers out there as well as old drivers coming back if a tip feature is added. I'm thinking not. Most who left are gone for good for many reasons to long to list here and the pool of new drivers is slowly drying up. I think Uber and Lyft thought the same way but are now realizing it's just not true. They have the demand but may not be able to meet it. Look at the incentives for new drivers they are implementing the latest I got from Lyft was $2.50 per ride given up to $800.00 in 60 days. They are feeling the pain and need to do something quick. I'm just hoping it is the year of the driver. Believe me I know it's not because they woke up and said "Oh the poor drivers we need to treat them better" it's strictly business and survival.


I agree 100%. Word has really spread about the low pay and miserable treatment that Uber gives to drivers. As I've said many times, comedians make fun of drivers now.

I started driving 18 months ago. Back then, it seemed like every other pax asked about Uber and if I really made $1500 a week driving. No one asks that question now. Pax have read about Uber in the news. I've had several that knew all about the upfront pricing scam and the Travis video. College students especially. People are signing up, getting the guarantee and getting out.

As for old drivers... The guy who referred me, he hadn't really driven in about two years. He got activated just to work opening day for the Reds game. He told me, "I'm gonna show you how to make money." Later that night, he called. .."Man, I didn't realize they cut rates like this. ..and no one tips! This sucks and I'm out."


----------



## Go4

When companies don't want customers to tip their employees, they raise the pay to living scales.
What about this does Travis NOT understand?


----------



## Profiteer

[


Go4 said:


> When companies don't want customers to tip their employees, they raise the pay to living scales.
> What about this does Travis NOT understand?


 Youre kidding right? Rich Executive CEO types dont understand (or care to) what its like to live working a Minimum Wage job(s).


----------



## SRGuy

Lee239 said:


> exactly, you can't let passengers threaten drivers to make a stop or else they will rate you a 1 and then complain about professionalism, nav, and safety as a weapon against you. Luckily it's a junky job, and it's like getting fired from McD only you make less money. I drive you from point a to b we are not your palls who take you to the convenience store and wait for 9 cents.


 Politely tell them they're allowed 1 stop, their choice of location, and give them 1 star at the end of the ride. Gave out 4 s star's last week and rating actually went up by 0.01 point.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Profiteer said:


> [
> 
> Youre kidding right? Rich Executive CEO types dont understand (or care to) what its like to live working a Minimum Wage job(s).


There are plenty of good companys with good CEO's that take care of their employees.
There's a local jewelry store around here that advertises that their employees are not paid commission. But when you go in there, the employees are not young college kids making minimum wage. They are very well dressed people that you can tell have been there a long time and by the way they treat you, you can tell they like their job. I'm sure they don't complain about not getting commission on their sales.


----------



## UberTrucker

CvilleUber said:


> They don't care about retention - there's thousands of new drivers every day.


I think you meant to say "1000 drivers per mile radius


----------



## SRGuy

Elmo Burrito said:


> Profit? I don't think they know what that is. How else could a start up company lose 3 billion dollars in one year? All they care about is putting the competition out of business at any cost!


Losing $10 million a day!


----------



## Profiteer

Cableguynoe said:


> There are plenty of good companys with good CEO's that take care of their employees.
> There's a local jewelry store around here that advertises that their employees are not paid commission. But when you go in there, the employees are not young college kids making minimum wage. They are very well dressed people that you can tell have been there a long time and by the way they treat you, you can tell they like their job. I'm sure they don't complain about not getting commission on their sales.


 You say there are plenty, yet mention only 1 Local (and probably privately owned) company.
Ive worked for a couple local privately own companies where the Owner/CEO worked with the Employees daily. They too were really good to us.
Until they both sold out to faceless Nation-wide Corporations. Then us employees just became cogs in the machine.


----------



## Maven

SRGuy said:


> Losing $10 million a day!


Valued at $70 Billion! Wish I could lose money with the same result.
Or maybe make some smart drivers happier by offering options on future IPO stock.


----------



## Body Politic

CvilleUber said:


> They don't care about retention - there's thousands of new drivers every day.


It would appear that well is running dry. So many people have tried it and walked away, and others who would have considered it are heeding our warnings, that driver retention has now become an issue the top is finally forced to pay attention to.


----------



## Cableguynoe

SRGuy said:


> Losing $10 million a day!


It if wasn't for those greedy drivers. Too bad there's nothing they can do about them...oh wait. Crap!


----------



## melusine3

westsidebum said:


> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE CENTURY!!!



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Alright... I'll be honest, getting paid to get TO people a pickup location could be very nice,
> 
> 50c a mile to get to pickup locations and $1.00 a mile on trip and i might actually be back onboard with uber...
> 
> That's what it would take.


$1 per mile would leave you with .21 per mile after Uber's take and the government's finding that it costs .54 per mile to operate your car. Uber depends upon people not understanding economics well enough to object to this abominable compensation schedule and even $2 per mile is inadequate. Fifty cents TO a destination still doesn't cover the costs, nor your time. It's a paltry idea at best and an attempt to seem as if they care a little bit about the drivers. Taxi drivers charge(d) as much as they do/did because it is what they need to make a profit. Uber is a racket, pure and simple.



Body Politic said:


> It would appear that well is running dry. So many people have tried it and walked away, and others who would have considered it are heeding our warnings, that driver retention has now become an issue the top is finally forced to pay attention to.


Now that the rideshareguy isn't the only voice on the issue, people are getting the truth and not even trying. He makes a LOT of money off of his referrals to both companies.


----------



## rembrandt

Without viable competition in the market , Uber will have little problem with a continuous supply of drivers. Ponzi schemes are never short of dreamers. A real formidable competition may change that scenario.


----------



## Kodyhead

PTUber said:


> I was all on board with needing the tip option until I started to drive Lyft as well as Uber. Now I'm kind of torn. Although cash tips aren't real frequent on Uber they are usually $5-$10 with the occasional $20. Lyft PAX may tip more often but not as much as I would have thought and its usually just a $1 or $2. Not to mention cash is king!


My theory is that the majority of people tipping you right now in cash will probably still tip in cash, these are probably old school kind of people. You may convert some of the non tippers mostly locals who don't carry cash. Before driving for Uber, I barely ever carried any cash as I am a rewards kind of guy and like to save for free flights, so I think you may convert some of these people but it may only add up to maybe and additional 5% tips a week, which is not a career changing raise for most drivers



Jagent said:


> If Uber ever adds tips, (and that's a huge if), I'm sure the option will be accompanied by text that says,
> 
> "TIPS ARE NOT EXPECTED, NOR REQUIRED. DO NOT FEEL OBLIGATED TO TIP YOUR DRIVER."
> 
> Then Uber will use tips as an excuse to either cut fares, take a bigger percentage or, at the very least, never raise fares.


I was thinking something more simple like TIPS ARE NOT INCLUDED BUT DON'T DO IT



Profiteer said:


> [
> 
> Youre kidding right? Rich Executive CEO types dont understand (or care to) what its like to live working a Minimum Wage job(s).


I don't think it really is a CEO issue, but a labor law issue. Most CEOS would love to have a sweatshop if they legally could here lol. Servers are paid below minimum wage, because the industry is set up to a tipping culture, people understand this. Also the hourly rates that we get, are based only on fares, because 99% of the time we are never driving for the whole entire hour. it would be a great if they raised both the mileage and hourly rate, but the hourly rate on X is way out of line, in addition that you discourage tipping. Over here on X we get 0.13/hr which works out to $7.80, then you have to take away 20-25% and then have to pay expenses.



Profiteer said:


> You say there are plenty, yet mention only 1 Local (and probably privately owned) company.
> Ive worked for a couple local privately own companies where the Owner/CEO worked with the Employees daily. They too were really good to us.
> Until they both sold out to faceless Nation-wide Corporations. Then us employees just became cogs in the machine.


In Ubers defense I think it is unfair to compare a CEO of a small company to a CEO of a company worth $70 billion dollars and I assume has going public in their future. However I do think that this company has grown beyond the capabilities of TK, and he really needs to let someone else run the company for him with real CEO experience running a company of this size.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Maven said:


> Valued at $70 Billion! Wish I could lose money with the same result.
> Or maybe make some smart drivers happier by offering options on future IPO stock.


lol the more they lose the more they're worth !!


----------



## Caldufo11

i think .20 cents a mile should only be applicable on rides that are over a certain mileage amount. for short rides it should be like .75 cents a mile


----------



## legghound

Right now, the tips I get, however infrequent, are cash money in MY pocket. Along with the other thoughts shared here about in-app tipping is taxes. IRS or not, who actually reports cash tips at tax time? In-app tipping will impose tax on every cent of those tips and I doubt if there will be that much increase in tipping with the "feature". I hear too many people saying "They get paid to drive, I'm not tipping them."


----------



## Veju

If you're reporting mileage and operating costs with your tax return, you'd still be unlikely to pay any tax even if you claim your tips. Not claiming any tips is a red flag, I hope you like paper work and government employees.


----------



## Kodyhead

Caldufo11 said:


> i think .20 cents a mile should only be applicable on rides that are over a certain mileage amount. for short rides it should be like .75 cents a mile


IDK I kinda like and understand how the cabs price things like charging more for the first mile and as other have mentioned, and also a dramatic increase in the hourly rate, or min rate. Maybe the cabs prices are high, but for the most part are based on actual costs. There is a line between profit which is not a dirty word and ripping off, I think they are closer to profit than ripping off which is what the mass believe it is because Uber dropped their pants with rates which is logical thinking from the customers point of view

Nobody likes to be told they are paying a higher price. I just found out I paid $10 for a square reader, where I could of gotten it for free lol, this is bestbuys fault not mine lol


----------



## tohunt4me

Jagent said:


> A - No you won't, because no one will drive for them. Uber is the only game in town and is having a huge problem with driver retention and cherry picking.
> 
> B- I would rather do 2 profitable rides per day than 15 where I lose money.
> 
> Uber was doing fine two years ago. Rates were decent. There is no reason for these idiotic low fares.


" UBER WAS DOING FINE TWO YEARS AGO.
RATES WERE DECENT.
THERE IS NO REASON FOR THESE IDIOTIC LOW FARES !"

EXACTLY ! EXACTLY ! EXACTLY !
EXACTLY ! EXACTLY !

NO NEED TO TIP

EXACTLY ! EXACTLY ! EXACTLY !

Fix it till its broke.



Kodyhead said:


> IDK I kinda like and understand how the cabs price things like charging more for the first mile and as other have mentioned, and also a dramatic increase in the hourly rate, or min rate. Maybe the cabs prices are high, but for the most part are based on actual costs. There is a line between profit which is not a dirty word and ripping off, I think they are closer to profit than ripping off which is what the mass believe it is because Uber dropped their pants with rates which is logical thinking from the customers point of view
> 
> Nobody likes to be told they are paying a higher price. I just found out I paid $10 for a square reader, where I could of gotten it for free lol, this is bestbuys fault not mine lol


Uber dropped OUR PANTS.
WE SUBSIDUSE UBER WITH OUR GAS,CARS,AND TIME !



Body Politic said:


> It would appear that well is running dry. So many people have tried it and walked away, and others who would have considered it are heeding our warnings, that driver retention has now become an issue the top is finally forced to pay attention to.


FLYING ROBOT FAIRYS WILL SAVE THE DAY . . .SCREW THE DRIVERS
AS USUAL.
UNION TIME


----------



## Dontmakemepullauonyou

Maven said:


> Nope. And it's only NYC not NYS. If Travis does implement nationwide then you can bet it will be used to suppress more important driver demands like decent pay, employee status, decent Phase-1 insurance, etc. Uber may even take a cut of Tips as a "processing fee" or use tips to justify reducing driver pay further.


Yep I think they I'll add tipping option nationwide and at the same time cut the rates or increase ubers take from the upfront fares scam.

Drivers will never win with uber. It's best to quit or do it at busy busy times only and app off TIL surge.


----------



## tohunt4me

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> Yep I think they I'll add tipping option nationwide and at the same time cut the rates or increase ubers take from the upfront fares scam.
> 
> Drivers will never win with uber. It's best to quit or do it at busy busy times only and app off TIL surge.


UNION


----------



## Profiteer

tohunt4me said:


> UNION


a National Independent Drivers Union? Get one going and I might be interested


----------



## _McUber_

Go4 said:


> When companies don't want customers to tip their employees, they raise the pay to living scales.
> What about this does Travis NOT understand?


Oh, he understands. He understands very well and knows exactly what he is doing. He is a breed of parasite humans whose purpose of existence is measured by how much blood he cleverly can suck into his stinky mortal belly and how to cleverly embezzle the entire human race if he could. Of course his demise or success depends on the victims who voluntarily participate. Scammers can not exist without volunteers willing to be scammed. He is exploiting financially distressed folks, poor immigrant, low IQ people, and people who are generally stuck in life, smart or stupid. This job can not be a choice of a sane person. If you are a driver check yourself in the above categories. Look at yourself in the mirror and without getting angry ask yourself. Do I like this job or not. If you do. Then well here you are what's the fuss about then and why are you here! If not, I mean sincerely not, then roll up the sleeves and get out of driving. How sweet it is to give the finger to Travis, and quietly with a smile telling him: This... is for you.


----------



## Profiteer

_McUber_ said:


> He is exploiting *financially distressed folks*, poor immigrant, low IQ people, and people who are generally stuck in life, smart or stupid. This job can not be a choice of a sane person. If you are a driver check yourself in the above categories. Look at yourself in the mirror and without getting angry ask yourself. Do I like this job or not. If you do. Then well here you are what's the fuss about then and why are you here! If not, I mean sincerely not, then roll up the sleeves and get out of driving. How sweet it is to give the finger to Travis, and quietly with a smile telling him: This... is for you.


I can list myself somewhat in the first category. Not stressed, but I can use the extra little $ it brings in
I have to say I do enjoy Driving pax around in my free time. It gets me out of the house. I socialize. Ive met some nice people and made a couple great contacts.
I cannot see doing this as a "career", 40+ hours a week as a Primary source of income. The pay is just way to low considering all the expenses you have to absorb.
The Rideshare concept is great. The Companies (Uber/Lyft) are not.


----------



## SuzeCB

I don't think I want an in-app tipping feature. If the ride is, let's say $10, the passengers sets it up for 20% comma we will get $2 as a tip. I would rather have Uber actively encouraged tipping, even if it's still included a notation about it not being necessary to getting a ride. Change the wording a little bit, because even when they say that tipping is allowed, they stress, and I do mean stress, that it is not expected or required. Can you ever imagine a restaurant doing that?


----------



## Kodyhead

SuzeCB said:


> I don't think I want an in-app tipping feature. If the ride is, let's say $10, the passengers sets it up for 20% comma we will get $2 as a tip. I would rather have Uber actively encouraged tipping, even if it's still included a notation about it not being necessary to getting a ride. Change the wording a little bit, because even when they say that tipping is allowed, they stress, and I do mean stress, that it is not expected or required. Can you ever imagine a restaurant doing that?


TIPS ARE NOT INCLUDED BUT NOT EXPECTED OR REQUIRED

I am ok with the NOT REQUIRED part to be honest, I just hate the NOT EXPECTED, the whole sentence seems equally if not worse than TIPS ARE INCLUDED


----------



## SuzeCB

Kodyhead said:


> TIPS ARE NOT INCLUDED BUT NOT EXPECTED OR REQUIRED
> 
> I am ok with the NOT REQUIRED part to be honest, I just hate the NOT EXPECTED, the whole sentence seems equally if not worse than TIPS ARE INCLUDED


Exactly.

And my point about the $2 or a $10 ride if it's done in app and put out as a percentage, is that you could be killing a potential $5 tip. Make them think in terms of percentages and you limit what they may give you. If they're paying you tips in cash, they generally give what they can afford, not what has been suggested. Sometimes this is less sometimes it's more. They also don't want to be judged against other passengers or may have tipped better. While some people may be cheapskates, they don't want anyone to think they are.


----------



## Maven

SuzeCB said:


> I don't think I want an in-app tipping feature. If the ride is, let's say $10, the passengers sets it up for 20% comma we will get $2 as a tip. I would rather have Uber actively encouraged tipping, even if it's still included a notation about it not being necessary to getting a ride. Change the wording a little bit, because even when they say that tipping is allowed, they stress, and I do mean stress, that it is not expected or required. Can you ever imagine a restaurant doing that?


Some fancy restaurants automatically include a 20% tip on your bill. If the (gross) fare is under $10 then prompting the PAX to give $1, $2, $3 may be better. 10% of a minimum (gross) fare is usually less than 60 cents.


----------



## supernaut

Aztek98 said:


> In app tipping and whatever BS they come up with for long distance trips wont be enogh but it will be a start.
> 
> Heres a clue. Raise the rates and beat taxis on service.
> 
> Its not hard.....


This. In-app tipping should've been standard from the start, obviously. That should be immediately implemented, but doesn't address the underlying problem; i. e. drivers are simply not paid enough.

Double the rates and people will still choose Fuber/Lift instead of more expensive taxis. If all the long-time, hard-working drivers suddenly found themselves taking home significantly more every week; SO many problems would evaporate overnight, including driver retention issues.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

Driver retention sounds like a medical condition, I hope it kills him.


----------



## Louis715

Kodyhead said:


> The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers. The majority will still not tip maybe some will change but i believe if you are not getting tips now, you will not be getting tbat much more in tips when they add it. At least not a career changing difference


And then the surge will go way



Louis715 said:


> And then the surge will go way


Down


----------



## elelegido

uberdriverfornow said:


> When Travis himself stopped using his service, it publicly cemented his disdain for drivers.


It was just a case of Uber removing one drunken Dbag pax from the service.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

SuzeCB said:


> I don't think I want an in-app tipping feature. If the ride is, let's say $10, the passengers sets it up for 20% comma we will get $2 as a tip. I would rather have Uber actively encouraged tipping, even if it's still included a notation about it not being necessary to getting a ride. Change the wording a little bit, because even when they say that tipping is allowed, they stress, and I do mean stress, that it is not expected or required. Can you ever imagine a restaurant doing that?


Huh? What do you actually WANT? Your post is very unclear.


----------



## SuzeCB

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Huh? What do you actually WANT? Your post is very unclear.


And in app tipping feature could potentially limit tips that would be given. If Uber was to put this in place, they would probably put it in the same way that they did for Uber taxi. The passenger would choose a percentage that they wanted to tip every driver. If you have a $10 ride, and they chose 10%, you would get $1. If they chose 20 you would get 2.

So what about the passengers who would otherwise give you $5 in cash? If you really believe them when they tell you that the only reason you're not getting a tip is because they don't have cash on them, try showing them that you have a square card and you can take their credit card. They scramble out of your car so fast your head will spin.

They know that this is one of the jobs that is supposed to receive tips period that's why they make excuses about it all of the time. If they're going to tip, they're going to tip. If they're not going to putting it in the app is not going to change anything comma except perhaps the amount that they tip. That will probably get lowered.


----------



## kdyrpr

Drivincrazy said:


> Doesn't take long to figure out what a losing proposition it is, especially if you are fully legal...rideshare endorsement, business licenses etc.


Only people out there "legal" are the cities states that require you to prove it. The day that happens is the day I am out.

I am torn on this. I agree with one of the posts here. Tipping option and other enhancements of pay will bring back tons of former drivers and even more new ones. We all know what this means. Less rides. I think all of us that have been doing this for awhile have strategies and tactics that get us more and better rides anyway. At least I do. I just wonder if it is worth it. Capping the number of drivers in a market (never will happen) would be nice.

Another huge problem is that UBER is competing with LYFT and other rideshare services. Cheap PAX will run to the least expensive company. Right now LYFT and UBER rates are virtually identical in all markets. That may be the biggest thing holding UBER back from increasing rates. Thus the guarantees and boost. More for drivers without raising rates. Also, eliminates LYFT/UBER drivers from accepting rides on LYFT platform.


----------



## pacopaco

westsidebum said:


> Uber does not give,rats ass about drivers. Uber has an image problem that,centers on Travis so going forward it is,important for uber and its investors for Travis to be seen as dealing with this issue. The public band aid to his dissing the uber black driver on video.
> 
> More importantly venture capitalists are starting to publicly raise the issue of low driver retention and ubers viability long term. The paradox is ubers hyper growth is based on exploiting drivers and their auto assets, but if uber can not demonstrate that it can retain drivers it fails in one of the key matrices in a businesses viability which is labor retention rate and demonstrating sustainable labor (driver)costs...


That's right !


----------



## _McUber_

Profiteer said:


> I can list myself somewhat in the first category. Not stressed, but I can use the extra little $ it brings in
> I have to say I do enjoy Driving pax around in my free time. It gets me out of the house. I socialize. Ive met some nice people and made a couple great contacts.
> I cannot see doing this as a "career", 40+ hours a week as a Primary source of income. The pay is just way to low considering all the expenses you have to absorb.
> The Rideshare concept is great. The Companies (Uber/Lyft) are not.


Fair and reasonable assessment. Yet everything I say pertains *only* to NYC. The upfront and ongoing expenses prohibit the "part time" concept, unlike the rest of the world outside of this city's perimetre. Uber here is regulated by a gang called Taxi and Limousine commission like all for hire vehicles. Taxi drivers here can tell you about this Mafia. Elsewhere in America or the world it might be beneficial to supplement income driving Uber part time especially for people who enjoy meeting other people. And for those who are white and have no language barrier like us immigrants. More than 90% of drivers here are immigrants, have language problems and Whites don't want them to even open their mouths. The motto is: Shut up and drive. Travis and his cephalopod limb in NY Josh Mohrer know the whole mental and logistic setup and are keeping a tight digital leach on all drivers. Uber here for 30+ thousand drivers is what the Pharoah was to Jews in Egypt. The minimum number of hours per week necessary to barely sustain existence is 50, hard labor.


----------



## Maven

In addition to Uber's current retention problems, there are even bigger problems on the horizon. Uber drivers appear to have little or no feelings of loyalty towards Uber. 90%+ would eagerly switch overnight to anyone, even a foreign competitor like China's Didi Chuxing, if they received more pay and respect. See the poll at https://uberpeople.net/threads/work-for-a-driver-friendly-foreign-competitor.162009/

Is there any evidence that this would actually work for Uber's competitors? Yes! Juno in NYC was growing rapidly and very popular with drivers as a direct result of driver-friendly policies and culture. Unfortunately, that experiment ended when Juno was bought out by foreign-based Gett, that has ended those driver-friendly policies.

Uber's major competitor in the USA, Lyft appears to mirror Uber's policies in fact, while publicly claiming to be more driver-friendly because of the one significant difference with Uber, in-App tipping. Lyft's current expansion if mostly fueled by Uber's recent negative publicity. That has a limit because Uber has a larger customer base in most markets. This single fact prevents most drivers from giving Lyft preference. More customers per hour on average for Uber drivers that yields greater effective pay despite virtually identical Lyft pay scales. In-App tipping (mostly) does not makeup the difference.

Customer's in these markets are reluctant to switch from Uber to Lyft, despite Uber's negative publicity. Primarily this is because of significantly longer Lyft average wait times until pickup compared to Uber. One solution is for Lyft to improve driver pay and respect to the point that drivers would give greater preference to Lyft over Uber. This would shorten wait times until pickup. The "word" would spread resulting in an increase in the customer base, which in turn would increase driver's average number of calls per hour and the number of drivers preferring Lyft to Uber. If a positive feedback loop was established, Lyft could rapidly expand its market share because they were actually more driver-friendly.

This could happen well before driverless-cars are introduced. Regardless, human drivers may still be needed for many years and for many different reasons after driverless-cars are first introduced.


----------



## Caldufo11

Yam Digger said:


> Yup. That's it right there in a nutshell.
> 
> Pax have gotten so used to not tipping us, it's hard for me to see them throwing a few extra bones out way when the feature gets added


on Lyft ppl tip ALL of the time I think often the intention is there but they feel awkward offering... especially if you provide very good service.


----------



## elelegido

Maven said:


> Uber drivers appear to have little or no feelings of loyalty towards Uber.


Newsflash.


> Juno was bought out by British-based Gett, that has ended those driver-friendly policies.


Those pesky Brits. But no, they are innocent this time. Gett is Israeli.


> Lyft's current expansion if mostly fueled by Uber's recent negative publicity.


Source? Evidence?


> More customers per hour on average for Uber drivers that yields greater effective pay


What is effective pay? How does it differ from ineffective pay?


> Customer's in these markets are reluctant to switch from Uber to Lyft, despite Uber's negative publicity. Primarily this is because of significantly longer Lyft average wait times until pickup compared to Uber.


Source? Evidence?

Lots of out of date information, incorrect information and guesswork here.


----------



## Maven

elelegido said:


> Those pesky Brits. But no, they are innocent this time. Gett is Israeli.


I agree. Made correction.


elelegido said:


> <Lyft's current expansion if mostly fueled by Uber's recent negative publicity.> Source? Evidence?


There have been several articles in financial media outlets, like Bloomberg. Google them.


elelegido said:


> What is effective pay? How does it differ from ineffective pay?


Let me clarify. In this case, "effective pay" means "driver's average net pay per hour". Understand now?


elelegido said:


> <Customer's in these markets are reluctant to switch from Uber to Lyft, despite Uber's negative publicity. Primarily this is because of significantly longer Lyft average wait times until pickup compared to Uber.> Source? Evidence?


This is just common sense. How often would you choose Lyft if you had to wait an extra 15-to-20+ minutes for pickup compared to Uber? That is what I personally see along with similar reports from other drivers in my region. Obviously, some regions are better/worse than others.


elelegido said:


> Lots of out of date information, incorrect information and guesswork here.


Rather than simply criticize, please provide up-to-date information and corrections (like for my British error) if there were others.


----------



## elelegido

Maven said:


> There have been several articles in financial media outlets, like Bloomberg. Google them.


Ah... the "google it" response. No; you make the claim, you provide the evidence. Otherwise it's just guesswork.

It's not clear what you mean by "recent Lyft expansion (number of rides? number of drivers? number of pax? number of cities served?) but I certainly haven't seen any convincing evidence that Lyft has expanded recently, or that such an expansion was due to Uber's bad publicity. All I've seen is charts that show that Lyft downloads were higher than Uber's for a couple of days in January, which is meaningless. It was just a couple of days and maybe people simply downloaded Lyft and then never used it. Who knows? But if you do have any convincing evidence for anything you say, then by all means, post it.


> Let me clarify. In this case, "effective pay" means "driver's average net pay per hour". Understand now?


Using a "Understand now?" zinger to insinuate that it's my fault that you used a non-comprehensible term is rather silly. If you want to say net pay, then say net pay. Rather than effective pay, which is meaningless.


> This is just common sense. How often would you choose Lyft if you had to wait an extra 15-to-20+ minutes for pickup compared to Uber?


No, it's not common sense. You are self-referencing. You think that Uber pax are reluctant to switch to Lyft because some rides have longer pickup times than Uber because it makes sense to you. But there are lots of other possible explanations. Pax tell me they prefer Uber because they want to sit in silence after a long day at work and not be bothered by a Chatty Charlie Lyft driver. Others tell me that they prefer Uber because they think it is cheaper. Others say they think Uber drivers are better and more professional. There are many, many reasons why pax prefer Uber over Lyft, and it is incorrect to say that one reason is the main reason just because it is "common sense". The only way to find out the reason for Uber customer retention would be to conduct a large scale customer survey and so obtain hard evidence.


> Rather than simply criticize, please provide up-to-date information and corrections (like for my British error) if there were others.


Done.


----------



## UberPirateIPO

Buckiemohawk said:


> It will never change, until they realize something cabs did. Drivers have to make money. You can't saturate the market and you can't let people rule the drivers car.


The white billionaire is going to allow the working poor, largely minority and immigrants to accept tips? That's a retention strategy? "Hey master, how bouts you throw me some of those scraps from your table. It's hard working dem fields."


----------



## Maven

elelegido said:


> Ah... the "google it" response. No; you make the claim, you provide the evidence. Otherwise it's just guesswork.


You may not be aware that posting links is against this forum's rules, although it occurs constantly. Since I was officially scolded for a violation, I tend to use the "google xxx" response instead. If you unable to find what you need using google then let me know in a private conversation and I will reply with specific links.


elelegido said:


> It's not clear what you mean by "recent Lyft expansion (number of rides? number of drivers? number of pax? number of cities served?) but I certainly haven't seen any convincing evidence that Lyft has expanded recently, or that such an expansion was due to Uber's bad publicity. All I've seen is charts that show that Lyft downloads were higher than Uber's for a couple of days in January, which is meaningless. It was just a couple of days and maybe people simply downloaded Lyft and then never used it. Who knows? But if you do have any convincing evidence for anything you say, then by all means, post it.


I have not personally conducted any statistical analysis, especially since neither Lyft or Uber releases raw data publicly. Once again, I will suggest that you google articles written in the financial media. I find "investor funding" to be more relevant than the numbers you are requesting. For example, google: Bloomberg Lyft Said to Raise $500 Million in New Round of Funding


elelegido said:


> Using a "Understand now?" zinger to insinuate that it's my fault that you used a non-comprehensible term is rather silly. If you want to say net pay, then say net pay. Rather than effective pay, which is meaningless.


OK. You win. Net Pay.


elelegido said:


> No, it's not common sense. You are self-referencing. You think that Uber pax are reluctant to switch to Lyft because some rides have longer pickup times than Uber because it makes sense to you. But there are lots of other possible explanations. Pax tell me they prefer Uber because they want to sit in silence after a long day at work and not be bothered by a Chatty Charlie Lyft driver. Others tell me that they prefer Uber because they think it is cheaper. Others say they think Uber drivers are better and more professional. There are many, many reasons why pax prefer Uber over Lyft, and it is incorrect to say that one reason is the main reason just because it is "common sense". The only way to find out the reason for Uber customer retention would be to conduct a large scale customer survey and so obtain hard evidence.
> Done.


We both know that Uber is not about to publicly release recent retention numbers for either drivers or riders. Certain financial media have released their "best guesses" based on available information. My OPINION is that, assuming identical pricing, the most significant reason is "long pickup times". Your OPINION may differ. There are obviously many other contributing reasons. Just as reasons will vary from region to region, based on local conditions.


----------



## _McUber_

UberPirateIPO said:


> The white billionaire is going to allow the working poor, largely minority and immigrants to accept tips? That's a retention strategy? "Hey master, how bouts you throw me some of those scraps from your table. It's hard working dem fields."


What white billionaire? You mean Travis? He is neither white nor an actual billionaire. He is a paper billionaire. Until Uber turns a profit, or go public and sell for real money, he is an average millionaire which is nothing these days. Regarding White, he is Ashkenazi. White is not a color. White is an ethnicity. He is neither white nor a billionaire. He is a criminal, and one fine day he'll make the mistake which lands him where he belongs. Jail.


----------



## Retired Senior

Personally I am not comfortable with tips. Reminds me of my deceased Grandmothers trying to slip me a few dollars back in the 60s - even then I knew they could not afford to do it. (It wasn't until the 1970s that my Dad's real estate practice took off and we were comfortably middle class.)
So I have refused tips. If some of you think that this affects your bottom line - sue me. From what I have seen and heard from many PAX I am a joy to be with, as opposed to other drivers that they have had. And I don't hand out water, candy, or play music. I listen to NPR or CBS 880 News radio. I keep my car clean and well maintained. For that I expect a basic rate of pay. I would love a higher rate of pay, but .....


----------



## elelegido

Retired Senior said:


> Personally I am not comfortable with tips.


Oh, I'm very comfortable taking tips. We're talking airport lounge coin-operated massage chair set to full vibrate comfortable.


----------



## Yam Digger

Retired Senior said:


> So I have refused tips....I keep my car clean and well maintained. For that I expect a basic rate of pay.


It's because of drivers like you who refuse tips why drivers like me who graciously accept them don't get them so often. Pax get the impression that ALL drivers don't care for tips. Don't assume that they're giving you money they can't afford to let go of. I've picked up Poo pax at multimillion dollar mansions.


----------



## elelegido

Maven said:


> You may not be aware that posting links is against this forum's rules, although it occurs constantly.


Not so. When posting in the News section, for example, a link to the source of the information is not only encouraged, but required:









If you were given a bollocking for linking to something then it was likely from a non-news source. Especially forbidden here are any links to the Rideshare Guy, for example. I'll probably get a one week ban just for mentioning him. But no, you can link to news media articles or data sources.


> I have not personally conducted any statistical analysis, especially since neither Lyft or Uber releases raw data publicly. Once again, I will suggest that you google articles written in the financial media. I find "investor funding" to be more relevant than the numbers you are requesting. For example, google: Bloomberg Lyft Said to Raise $500 Million in New Round of Funding


I haven't requested any numbers. I asked what you meant by "Lyft's recent expansion", and if there is an expansion, evidence of your claim that _"Lyft's current expansion is mostly fueled by Uber's recent negative publicity"_. You say that Lyft's expansion to you means investor funding. Ok, we can accept that definition of expansion. But there's no evidence that investors invested this money in Lyft because of Uber's bad publicity. 


> My OPINION is that, assuming identical pricing, the most significant reason is "long pickup times".


Exactly. Which is different from your earlier rather authoritative, _"Customer's in these markets are reluctant to switch from Uber to Lyft, despite Uber's negative publicity. Primarily this is because of significantly longer Lyft average wait times until pickup compared to Uber."._


----------



## Retired Senior

Yam Digger said:


> It's because of drivers like you who refuse tips why drivers like me who graciously accept them don't get them so often. Pax get the impression that ALL drivers don't care for tips. Don't assume that they're giving you money they can't afford to let go of. I've picked up Poo pax at multimillion dollar mansions.


OK, I've had some time to think about it. It is the actual taking a "tip" from a person's hand that makes me uncomfortable. A tip feature in the Rider's app _would _solve that problem. I still won't pander to the PAX for the tip.


----------



## Aneed Momoney

rembrandt said:


> Without viable competition in the market , Uber will have little problem with a continuous supply of drivers. Ponzi schemes are never short of dreamers. A real formidable competition may change that scenario.


Where is Rydengo? Is that thing just a mythological creature? I've read about people signing up but they never responded. What the heck man


----------



## Maven

Aneed Momoney said:


> Where is Rydengo? Is that thing just a mythological creature? I've read about people signing up but they never responded. What the heck man


You can read about different experiences people have had with RydeNGo at
https://uberpeople.net/search/47946185/?q=Rydengo&o=relevance&c[title_only]=1


----------



## steveophoto

Tips pay for my gas. I don't ask for or expect them they just happen. I am very comfortable taking peoples money for the excellent service I provide.


----------



## TheFixer1

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Adding tipping will do nothing, good luck with getting a tip from these cheap ass PAX, there is a reason they use Uber and it's dirt cheap service, have you ever seen anyone tip at McDonald's after ordering the dollar menu meal.



Yam Digger said:


> It's because of drivers like you who refuse tips why drivers like me who graciously accept them don't get them so often. Pax get the impression that ALL drivers don't care for tips. Don't assume that they're giving you money they can't afford to let go of. I've picked up Poo pax at multimillion dollar mansions.


These pax have no intentions in tipping you, time to wake up to reality, if someone wanted to tip you for your services they would.


----------



## Andre Benjamin 6000

Retired Senior said:


> Personally I am not comfortable with tips. Reminds me of my deceased Grandmothers trying to slip me a few dollars back in the 60s - even then I knew they could not afford to do it. (It wasn't until the 1970s that my Dad's real estate practice took off and we were comfortably middle class.)
> So I have refused tips. If some of you think that this affects your bottom line - sue me. From what I have seen and heard from many PAX I am a joy to be with, as opposed to other drivers that they have had. And I don't hand out water, candy, or play music. I listen to NPR or CBS 880 News radio. I keep my car clean and well maintained. For that I expect a basic rate of pay. I would love a higher rate of pay, but .....


Jesus Christ....


----------



## Maven

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> Jesus Christ....


Are you saying that Jesus would tip of not?  Is tipping mentioned anywhere in the "Good Book"?
If so, is 5%, 10%, 15%, or 20%+ considered a "good deed" of a "righteous man".


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

Kodyhead said:


> I didn't realize you had to pay the CC processing fees, is it a flat fee per shift or does it scale on how much you earned?
> 
> Out of curiosity how are the tolls calculated? Do they go into the sunpass account and add it up?
> 
> I have heard that on some shifts they practically give away the cabs, where on the scale or low and high is $66 for a 12 hour shift I assume is it?
> 
> Thanks


5% on CC but that charge back had $100ish in credit card transactions

They tolls are a sunpass sticker, there's a day of lag but i total it on my sheet to check for errors.
I get charged automtically, and the customer get's charged by me hitting a button on the meter.

the company has an insanely elaborate pricing system in place for renting out taxis. Simply put there aren't enough permits allocated so not every taxi has a city of Orlando permit, an airport permit, ect. So some taxis are restricted from pickups in many areas.

You actually caught me trolling fare and square.

$66 is literally the dirt bottom, I also do the 9:00 PM shift, so it needs reducing vs the 5:00 PM shift. however that particular car isn't even a taxi, it's a livery vehicle. So the theme park cab stands, airport, and large hotel cab stands are all out of bounds. The car I drive at 5:00 PM or 5:00 am is $94

That leaves me downtown, the suburbs, and the hood, and dispatched calls out of smaller hotels.

I pay less money for the car because i'm more restricted. An airport permitted car for the same time block is $84, and the 5:00 PM with an airport sticker is $120. Working the airport in a taxi here is.. insanely lucrative, average is $40 a load. An airport car for my time shift will easily hit $300 in revenue, with $50 in gas/tolls/.

The most expensive is double what i'm paying. The pricing schema is actually out of whack, really badly. the 9:00 Am and 10:00 am shifts are overpriced for how lousy the business is. But they shove the new drivers on that shift at reduced rental rates. I'm pretty sure they want the 9:00 and 10:00 am set aside for newbies.

I also have a large pool of regular customers who call me directly for pickups on the nights of the week i work the most. Those contacts take a long time to build.

At the end of the day the shift prices are all over the place in an effort to balance out the earnings. The cab companies do this to incentive certain shifts. There's no possible way someone working the suburbs during the day will make as much as someone working the airport from 5:00 PM until the last flight comes in.


----------



## _McUber_

Retired Senior said:


> Personally I am not comfortable with tips. Reminds me of my deceased Grandmothers trying to slip me a few dollars back in the 60s - even then I knew they could not afford to do it. (It wasn't until the 1970s that my Dad's real estate practice took off and we were comfortably middle class.)
> So I have refused tips. If some of you think that this affects your bottom line - sue me. From what I have seen and heard from many PAX I am a joy to be with, as opposed to other drivers that they have had. And I don't hand out water, candy, or play music. I listen to NPR or CBS 880 News radio. I keep my car clean and well maintained. For that I expect a basic rate of pay. I would love a higher rate of pay, but .....


Were we separated at birth! I could've easily written the exact same, word for word. No one tips where I come from. And no one tips even in Europe. This country is unique in this tipping ideology. Very uncomfortable to the tipper, and kind of degrading to the one being tipped. What's wrong with being paid the exact value for service rendered without the awkwardness and the drama that goes with it? Also, in the country I came from and soon going back to for good (reverse immigrating), I used to be an Engineer, so the thought of tipping is out of my league. I used to listen to NPR, and BBC when I drove yellow (helped me learn English.) I gave up watching TV 20 years ago, followed by giving up reading Newspapers and now no more radio either. Yellow or black, I have my car washed at the beginning of every shift unless it is raining. Driving for a living is not a job, I learned late when I switched to Uber. Driving for a living is the most destructive decision any rational human being can ever make. It is a volunteered slavery. Very demoralizing I must add. People are rude in this city, and the ones who aren't rude, act superior anyway for some unknown reason. 
One of Mark Twain's best quotes: _Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. _


----------



## iheartuber

CvilleUber said:


> They don't care about retention - there's thousands of new drivers every day.


Speaking for my market I will say this: there WERE thousands of new drivers everyday in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. Sooner or later all the bad press, bad karma, and truth about how much drivers really make will mean that number is going to dry up.

I don't know if it's gotten to the dry up part yet but if TK is thinking about driver retention it must be on its way.


----------



## melusine3

albertphx said:


> I think the popular proverb "an leopard can't change its spots" applies here.
> As long as Travis is the one in charge, any improvements for the drivers would be
> because he might figure out that self driving cars is further away than he thought.
> The Waymo lawsuit, depending on outcome can hinder their robot car efforts.
> I mean, he never really shown he gives an sh#* about the drivers, why the change of
> heart all of an sudden?


Speaking of driverless cars, no one has been able to assure me that they will be able to punch in gate codes on gated complexes, other than to assume the developments will change their gate opening somehow to accommodate UBER... That, too, would take a while. In the meantime, Fuber will be relegated to driving for the hoi polloi who can't afford what Fuber will eventually want to charge and they will turn back to riding buses.


----------



## UberPirateIPO

_McUber_ said:


> What white billionaire? You mean Travis? He is neither white nor an actual billionaire. He is a paper billionaire. Until Uber turns a profit, or go public and sell for real money, he is an average millionaire which is nothing these days. Regarding White, he is Ashkenazi. White is not a color. White is an ethnicity. He is neither white nor a billionaire. He is a criminal, and one fine day he'll make the mistake which lands him where he belongs. Jail.


Goldman Sachs private equity fund. The money behind the fraud. I'm willing to bet you the majority are white. But seriously, most billionaires regardless of their color are assholes.











iheartuber said:


> Speaking for my market I will say this: there WERE thousands of new drivers everyday in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. Sooner or later all the bad press, bad karma, and truth about how much drivers really make will mean that number is going to dry up.
> 
> I don't know if it's gotten to the dry up part yet but if TK is thinking about driver retention it must be on its way.


I tell most everyone it's a minimum wage job. Most don't seem to mind riding around in a 2,000 metal casket with a guy comfortable making $7.25



Retired Senior said:


> Personally I am not comfortable with tips. Reminds me of my deceased Grandmothers trying to slip me a few dollars back in the 60s - even then I knew they could not afford to do it. (It wasn't until the 1970s that my Dad's real estate practice took off and we were comfortably middle class.)
> So I have refused tips. If some of you think that this affects your bottom line - sue me. From what I have seen and heard from many PAX I am a joy to be with, as opposed to other drivers that they have had. And I don't hand out water, candy, or play music. I listen to NPR or CBS 880 News radio. I keep my car clean and well maintained. For that I expect a basic rate of pay. I would love a higher rate of pay, but .....


Fortunately for you you are not rated by your peers only Uber Users...


----------



## cakoo10

Jagent said:


> Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


You won't ever be seeing a $10 minimum


----------



## Lowestformofwit

TheFixer1 said:


> Adding tipping will do nothing, good luck with getting a tip from these cheap ass PAX, there is a reason they use Uber and it's dirt cheap service, have you ever seen anyone tip at McDonald's after ordering the dollar menu meal.
> These pax have no intentions in tipping you, time to wake up to reality, if someone wanted to tip you for your services they would.


Says it all, really.
An in app tipping feature? - Yet again, just Uber hoping that someone else (tipping pax) will voluntarily carry their can for them, and boost driver earnings - because Travis sure doesn't want to use his money to do so.
Should this thread be renamed '_Travis struggles with anal retention'_?


----------



## kdyrpr

Tipping will lead to more ants and bring back a lot who quit.. Not sure about it.


----------



## Jagent

I've been telling you guys that there are drivers who refuse to accept tips. Do you believe it now? Tipping is dead. It's not coming back. We need a raise.


----------



## Retired Senior

Sacred Heart University in Fairfield Ct held graduation today. The student body is largely female, and when I drove up to the campus I saw about 100 young women in black gowns posing for a photo shoot... caps and gowns but with the black gowns pulled back to reveal one shapely leg, from just below the crotch to their ankles. This old man found it very erotic!

That's not what this post is about...

The reason I was at the campus was that I had a young woman aboard who needed to turn in some final paperwork. She is a junior and - obviously - not graduating this year. What made her noteworthy is that she told me the wait for an UBER driver is getting progressively longer. She asked me "where have all the drivers gone?"

I am not making this up! It is not a joke. It is one passenger/rider's perspective. How would I know? I just drive and hope to make about $100 a day. Some days I do, some days I fall short. On the days that I do make $100, at least $30 goes on fuel for the next day's UBERING. My car is costing me about $300 -$400 a month to keep it on the road. Nonetheless, for me just now there is no better job option.



UberPirateIPO said:


> Goldman Sachs private equity fund. The money behind the fraud. I'm willing to bet you the majority are white. But seriously, most billionaires regardless of their color are assholes.
> View attachment 118745
> 
> 
> I don't think that most billionaires are assholes.... Martians perhaps. Certainly their frames of reference are very different from that of an Uber driver.
> 
> I tell most everyone it's a minimum wage job. Most don't seem to mind riding around in a 2,000 metal casket with a guy comfortable making $7.25
> 
> I am making between $10 - $15 dollars an hour. And my car is worth about $3,500 - so there
> 
> Fortunately for you you are not rated by your peers only Uber Users...
> View attachment 118747




From what I can gather in these forums, it probably would not matter.


----------



## UberPirateIPO

Retired Senior said:


> Sacred Heart University in Fairfield Ct held graduation today. The student body is largely female, and when I drove up to the campus I saw about 100 young women in black gowns posing for a photo shoot... caps and gowns but with the black gowns pulled back to reveal one shapely leg, from just below the crotch to their ankles. This old man found it very erotic!
> 
> That's not what this post is about...
> 
> The reason I was at the campus was that I had a young woman aboard who needed to turn in some final paperwork. She is a junior and - obviously - not graduating this year. What made her noteworthy is that she told me the wait for an UBER driver is getting progressively longer. She asked me "where have all the drivers gone?"
> 
> I am not making this up! It is not a joke. It is one passenger/rider's perspective. How would I know? I just drive and hope to make about $100 a day. Some days I do, some days I fall short. On the days that I do make $100, at least $30 goes on fuel for the next day's UBERING. My car is costing me about $300 -$400 a month to keep it on the road. Nonetheless, for me just now there is no better job option.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can gather in these forums, it probably would not matter.


Those lady boys in San Francisco want everyone to believe that crotch shot was enough to fill your tank. Sad face for those creepers. Money talks and Uber billionaires walk. Why act like a slave, work like a slave for slave wages when the slaves were emancipated over a hundred years ago?

Warning, slaves inhabit this site and will tell you the fields are not that hard and your Uber pennies are all you deserve.

Both major parties are now owned by the corporations.


----------



## westsidebum

Retired Senior said:


> I just drive and hope to make about $100 a day. Some days I do, some days I fall short. On the days that I do make $100, at least $30 goes on fuel for the next day's UBERING. My car is costing me about $300 -$400 a month to keep it on the road. Nonetheless, for me just now there is no better job option.


Uber knows most drivers have daily financial goal. They have all the data on driver behavior. They know exactly how low to price a ride to keep you slaving away for 10-to 14 hours to reach that daily monetary goal.

The only way to break out of their chains is to work when rates are most advantageous and to quit when they are not. Doing so will deny uber/lyft the driver coverage they depend on and force them to raise rates to meet variable demand.


----------



## UberAnt39

elelegido said:


> Newsflash.
> Those pesky Brits. But no, they are innocent this time. Gett is Israeli.


And running on Volkswagen money, ironically.

Uber need to fix their Travis retention issue.


----------



## Retired Senior

Here in Connecticut we have been having "boosts" of 1.1x if you drive in Stamford and Greenwich between 7AM and 9AM. That is not nearly enough to get me to drive 25 + miles and get involved with that I-95 S (to New York City) corridor. In all honesty, it would have to be more like 4x the usual rate.
The level of stress and anxiety that the riders as well as I experience on that route is enough to give you a heart attack.


----------



## PrestonT

I keep looking at the thread topic and telling myself, "It's true, Kalanick seems to be doing everything he can think of to combat driver retention."


----------



## _McUber_

westsidebum said:


> Uber knows most drivers have daily financial goal. They have all the data on driver behavior. They know exactly how low to price a ride to keep you slaving away for 10-to 14 hours to reach that daily monetary goal.
> 
> The only way to break out of their chains is to work when rates are most advantageous and to quit when they are not. Doing so will deny uber/lyft the driver coverage they depend on and force them to raise rates to meet variable demand.


Nop. The only way to break the vicious cycle is to have a plan of exit and work diligently at it every waking minute of every working day. The only way to break the shackles is to boot their a$$ out of the window. All of them. I flushed Uber in the toilet couple months ago and both Left and Juno are in the way to follow.


----------



## Safe_Driver_4_U

I think he is an Ayn Rand fan maybe he studies her treatise on "The virtue of selfishness"


----------



## PrestonT

He is absolutely 100% an Ayn Rand fan. I'd guarantee it.


----------



## Aneed Momoney

elelegido said:


> Oh, I'm very comfortable taking tips. We're talking airport lounge coin-operated massage chair set to full vibrate comfortable.


The ^$%# is wrong with these people. How do you feel guilty for getting a tip. I don't understand this thinking.


----------



## PrestonT

Lowestformofwit said:


> Says it all, really.
> An in app tipping feature? - Yet again, just Uber hoping that someone else (tipping pax) will voluntarily carry their can for them, and boost driver earnings - because Travis sure doesn't want to use his money to do so.
> Should this thread be renamed '_Travis struggles with anal retention'_?


In fairness, restaurateurs have been relying on tipping patroms to carry their service can for them to the point where it has become the norm. The difference here is that Uber set drivers up to work for much less than a livable wage and at the same time actively discourages tipping.


----------



## Lowestformofwit

PrestonT said:


> He is absolutely 100% an Ayn Rand fan. I'd guarantee it.


Worse still, I've read he openly admits it & praises her.


----------



## Lowestformofwit

westsidebum said:


> Uber knows most drivers have daily financial goal. They have all the data on driver behavior. They know exactly how low to price a ride to keep you slaving away for 10-to 14 hours to reach that daily monetary goal.


This is absolutely the guts of this whole scheme, and the ONLY WAY for them to achieve their 'instant cab on every corner, 24/7' business plan. 
Manipulation through the workers' pockets.
The quouted part of the post should be a header on every page here.


----------



## Abraxas79

villetta said:


> A) you'll end up with the next app du jour claiming to be cheaper, just as uber has done to taxis (and limo, black car, shuttles, and even charter buses)
> B) if uber did raise their fares, and does not limit drivers, it won't matter what your rates are because there are a limited number of potential passengers at any given time. So, woo-hoo each driver gets one or two trips a day, and still isn't making a livelihood.


That's when you approach the city and demand a cap on the number of drivers. Part of the Union driver. The tide is turning against UBER. They can carry only for a little while longer.



SurgeWarrior said:


> Too late fk face! You upset the drivers and by putting a tipping feature that your competitor already has isnt going to change a thing..btw, this whole idea by some posters that adding a tip feature will keep them in diamonds and furs is just crazy, pax arent interested in tipping and if Uber jacks the fares now it will upset the paxs! The only solution, big rate hike to pull your drivers back from lyft...but it will be dead until the pax get tired of waiting around for lyft drivers...Uber , you caused a real mess, deal with it!


Piss on the Pax's. They are living in a fantasy world getting driven around the city for less then bus fare. Let them get back on the bus then.



Maven said:


> Valued at $70 Billion! Wish I could lose money with the same result.
> Or maybe make some smart drivers happier by offering options on future IPO stock.


Yes and Lehman Bros was considered Triple A investment grade a day before its bankruptcy. That valuation has no basis in reality. See: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-uber-opens-its-books-shows-staggering-losses


----------



## uberdavid

Charismatic Megafauna said:


> The Scorpion and the Frog
> 
> A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
> scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
> frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
> says, "Because if I do, I will die too."
> 
> The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
> the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
> paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
> but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
> 
> Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."


I said the same thing to my Ex Wife!


----------



## Paul Vincent

Lowestformofwit said:


> Worse still, I've read he openly admits it & praises her.


Travis had the cover of Rands The Fountainhead as is Avatar. Greed is good.


----------



## Hannibalb

PrestonT said:


> He is absolutely 100% an Ayn Rand fan. I'd guarantee it.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.bus...rand-inspired-uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-2015-6


----------



## tohunt4me

Paul Vincent said:


> Travis had the cover of Rands The Fountainhead as is Avatar. Greed is good.


Where is MY GREED DAMMIT !!!

NO NEED TO TIP !

LOWER RATES MEANS MORE MONEY !

UBER " VIRTUAL BADGES" FEED THE HUNGRY,CURE THE SICK !


----------



## Maven

Uber's goal for Driver Pay after Uber-fee and expenses










Why shouldn't Drivers should follow Uber's example and lose money just as fast? Wouldn't Wall Street value our assets in the $Billions like Uber's?


----------



## Safe_Driver_4_U

Uber isn't losing money


----------



## Maven

Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> Uber isn't losing money


True! The same way:

There really is a Santa Clause.
Obama is really a white-guy in black-face.
Donald Trump has never told a lie.
I'm from the government and I'm here to help.


----------



## Kodyhead

IDK for the past few weeks ever since the ratings are now displayed on the profile page, I have been caught off guard with some more tips. For the most part most still do not tip, but the few X customers I picked up the past few weeks, I was pleasantly surprised with tips. On X and Lux I have been hearing 5 stars at the end of the trip too, which is usually a sign that they actually care about the rating. Might be a coincidence but may be an improvement. I also had more pukers in the last few weeks too lol



Maven said:


> True! The same way:
> 
> There really is a Santa Clause.
> Obama is really a white-guy in black-face.
> Donald Trump has never told a lie.


I am not a Trump fan or hater, but I honestly think he thinks he is telling the truth, even when he is lying lol


----------



## Safe_Driver_4_U

somebody gotta drain the swamp, some way, I don't care how they do it, just get it done.


----------



## Gooberlifturwallet

Tr4vis Ka1anick said:


> Yap, yap, yap. Can't wait for Uber's autonomous automobiles. Then all I have to do is listen to my engineers and mechanics complain.


Actually you are going to be retired in a couple years. Then Goldman Sachs and the real owners will turn it into the slave transport it is meant to be. European Union ruling it is a taxi company will mean the death knell of an independently owned Uber. Look for it to go public real soon and then the corporate investors and owners will finalize their worldwide control of ground Transportation.


----------



## Tr4vis Ka1anick

Gooberlifturwallet said:


> Actually you are going to be retired in a couple years. Then Goldman Sachs and the real owners will turn it into the slave transport it is meant to be. European Union ruling it is a taxi company will mean the death knell of an independently owned Uber. Look for it to go public real soon and then the corporate investors and owners will finalize their worldwide control of ground Transportation.


*Noooooooooo!








*


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Maven said:


> Are you saying that Jesus would tip of not?  Is tipping mentioned anywhere in the "Good Book"?
> If so, is 5%, 10%, 15%, or 20%+ considered a "good deed" of a "righteous man".


Jesus would be at the Uber offices (or Goldman Sachs), brandishing a whip and overturning tables.
And of course he'd tip.


----------



## Kodyhead

Gooberlifturwallet said:


> Actually you are going to be retired in a couple years. Then Goldman Sachs and the real owners will turn it into the slave transport it is meant to be. European Union ruling it is a taxi company will mean the death knell of an independently owned Uber. Look for it to go public real soon and then the corporate investors and owners will finalize their worldwide control of ground Transportation.


My theory is they will franchise the self driving cars out, and make money on servicing them too.

Seems like ubers business model is to get others to pay fot it anyway lol


----------



## AVLien

albertphx said:


> I think the popular proverb "an leopard can't change its spots" applies here.
> As long as Travis is the one in charge, any improvements for the drivers would be
> because he might figure out that self driving cars is further away than he thought.


This is also why they can't retain corporate leadership. High-level executives turn over like crazy (most notably their last VP) because they base their business on drivers sucking s*it at every turn. Their shareholders seem to have the same opinion (thanks Ashton!), otherwise we would have seen some pressure to change things.

My only hope is that things turn around before the overall quality of drivers falls to a point where most people will be afraid to ping an Uber. It's almost to that point already, every pax i pick up now starts the ride with "Thank God! You're not like the last one!" That, coupled with videos circulating the interwebs of people screaming at pax, really lowers the pax's expectations. Once that reaches a terminal velocity (if you will) nobody will want to ride anyway.

They have plenty of rope, now they're tying the noose.


----------



## Kodyhead

AVLien said:


> This is also why they can't retain corporate leadership. High-level executives turn over like crazy (most notably their last VP) because they base their business on drivers sucking s*it at every turn. Their shareholders seem to have the same opinion (thanks Ashton!), otherwise we would have seen some pressure to change things.
> 
> My only hope is that things turn around before the overall quality of drivers falls to a point where most people will be afraid to ping an Uber. It's almost to that point already, every pax i pick up now starts the ride with "Thank God! You're not like the last one!" That, coupled with videos circulating the interwebs of people screaming at pax, really lowers the pax's expectations. Once that reaches a terminal velocity (if you will) nobody will want to ride anyway.
> 
> They have plenty of rope, now they're tying the noose.


I kinda like it. Although there is a lot of cars on the road as far as saturation, as far as engaging with the pax, entertaining them, picking them up and dropping them off efficiently, there isnt much competition tip wise.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> Uber isn't losing money


I can come up with 3 ridiculous things that are more true in reality than this statement, with proof!OK, i'm only going to prove that two of them are MORE true than "uber isn't losing money"

The white house was built in 1950
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction

Hogwarts Castle is next to Jurrassic park

https://www.universalorlando.com/web/en/us/files/Documents/ioa-park-map.pdf

I made more money last night than uber ever has in it's entire existence

Just because it sounds crazy, doesn't mean it's not true... Especially when someone has weird insider info...


----------



## jammer

westsidebum said:


> I have long thought the self driving car hype was just a way for uber to justify driver abuse and prevent drivers from organizing. Uber wants the public and drivers to think resistance is futile because uber will replace you in a few years. All hype...useful also to mask the degree to which uber actually depends on drivers primarily to drive its growth. Uber has very low capital costs by getting drivers to use own cars, and front expenses such as gas, and time with no guarantee of recouping expenses much less a return on investment. By attacking drivers and grinding them down uber keeps drivers on the defensive and masks its on vulnerability on the drivers it wages war on. Call it a well planned offense.


Big hole in your otherwise sensible logic; why then has Uber spent SOOO much $$$ on driverless technology? Don't forget, so is Ford, GM, Google as well as Asian & European car makers. This would be the most expensive head fake in business history, I think. Plus, Uber is burning cash like KRAZY... Their investors have to be being told what the logic of it is. They're not getting paid jack squat in returns - yet...possible they've just promised the mother of all IPOs. But still, that requires a vision/plan that can be realistically sold... I think they'd have gone public already - if they could've. Question is why not?


----------



## Oscar Levant

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


The tipping isn't the issue. I doubt the tipping in app will be much more than the tips I currently receive, and I actually don't do too badly. what Travis needs to do is one thing above, and that is raise the rate so that driver's can be adequately compensated for use of their vehicles.



Jagent said:


> Only thing that will solve driver retention is a $10 minimum and $1 mile to the driver. Until they do that, drivers will quit and customer service will suck. Uber could actually make a profit if they did this.


No, just do it like taxis, in san diego, $3 per mile, .40 cents per minute waiting time ( below 12 mph ) and $3 for the first 1/10 of a mile.


----------



## Abraxas79

UBER Pax have been so indoctrinated not to tip that even adding a feature would likely only provide nominal returns. However, if it happened the first thing you as driver should do is draw their attention to it. The Cheap low life Pax's riding around for less then bus fare will not tip. I understand the Lyft tipping option does not identify who gave you a tip. This is useless. If you can identify who doesn't tip, their rating would quickly plummet and they would not get anymore rides.


----------



## Kembolicous

Kodyhead said:


> The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers. The majority will still not tip maybe some will change but i believe if you are not getting tips now, you will not be getting tbat much more in tips when they add it. At least not a career changing difference


I don't see the tipping app helping much. Travis had it in people's minds that tipping isn't necessary. I work Lyft, and believe me, if 10% of riders tip in a day, I am very lucky. The no tip required by Travis has ruined Lyft tippers as well


----------



## Kodyhead

Kembolicous said:


> I don't see the tipping app helping much. Travis had it in people's minds that tipping isn't necessary. I work Lyft, and believe me, if 10% of riders tip in a day, I am very lucky. The no tip required by Travis has ruined Lyft tippers as well


I agree only less than 5% of my riders are probably new or relatively new riders so the damage has been done. I estimate it will add maybe 5% of your fares, nothing career changing or anything.

Even if Uber hit a wall with new drivers and spun it with an advertising campaign like uber is now appreciates or doing it to thank the drivers it won't make a difference, it will take a new generation of riders to take effect. And by then we will be in flying cars lol


----------



## somedriverguy

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


The thread title says it all. Travis does indeed combat driver retention. He personaly goes out of his way to make sure drivers don't want to or can't afford to stay.


----------



## melusine3

Aneed Momoney said:


> The ^$%# is wrong with these people. How do you feel guilty for getting a tip. I don't understand this thinking.


They would be those persons who have no clue about economics.


----------



## jonhjax

Jammer,
I believe uber tried to get a favorable rating for an IPO in the last year or two. They were turned down because they didn't give up enough financial information, I believe. I think this is why we're seeing uber give out info such as the increase in new subscribers, etc. If Uber does go public I feel bad for those who invest after uber goes public. There's going to be a great deal of volatility with values while uber tries to get profitable. Uber may lose a lot of riders because their rates will be about the same as taxis. Uber's recent bad press and the declining overall quality of drivers and vehicles may come back to bite them in their behind.


----------



## Aneed Momoney

jonhjax said:


> Jammer,
> I believe uber tried to get a favorable rating for an IPO in the last year or two. They were turned down because they didn't give up enough financial information, I believe. I think this is why we're seeing uber give out info such as the increase in new subscribers, etc. If Uber does go public I feel bad for those who invest after uber goes public. There's going to be a great deal of volatility with values while uber tries to get profitable. Uber may lose a lot of riders because their rates will be about the same as taxis. Uber's recent bad press and the declining overall quality of drivers and vehicles may come back to bite them in their behind.


Both these apps are on borrowed time. Smaller regional apps by people with common business sense, and some money to invest in a team of devs and a IT people will make a killing


----------



## Telsa34

westsidebum said:


> *How Uber Will Combat Rising Driver Churn*
> By Amir Efrati
> 
> Apr. 20, 2017 7:02 AM PDT
> 
> As Uber grapples with controversies over its workplace culture, CEO Travis Kalanick is considering a bevy of measures to tackle another enormous business challenge: the accelerating exodus of Uber drivers.
> 
> The company is leaning toward allowing in-app tipping by riders, a longtime item on drivers' wish list, say people involved with the company's efforts. In addition, Uber is working to compensate drivers more for traveling a long distance to reach a rider who isn't going to travel very far.
> 
> Whole article here by subscription
> 
> https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-will-combat-rising-driver-churn
> 
> My take Is Travis is the problem not the solution. The guy created a culture that was based on contempt and disdain for drivers.


Uber has to act here in Florida on July 1 there may be thousands of Uber drivers forced to quit with in days because of cancilation of there private insurance. If they are notified of Uber and Lyft drivers identification.

Uber has been aware of this all along, they provided misinformation to its drivers since day one. Misleading drivers about there being insured when driving to pick up passengers up and on there way to there destinations.

They have known if you are involved in a accident your insurance can cancil leaving you in possible lawsuit. I have seen no where has Uber paid for your damage and or injuries incurred in a accident on Uber's clock ? I have seen Uber wants you to report to your insurance company first. Can some one confirm this.

So any one gambling on not getting involved in a accident in there car while driving for Uber, has other issues now.
If By this State rulling Uber Lyft and others must provide driver information to local insurance agencies.

Come July 1 they will loose thousands of drivers unless some thing is not done, and the only thing I can think of is they supply there own commercial insurance at affordable rates.


----------



## Maven

Telsa34 said:


> Uber has to act here in Florida on July 1 there may be thousands of Uber drivers forced to quit with in days because of cancilation of there private insurance. If they are notified of Uber and Lyft drivers identification.
> 
> Uber has been aware of this all along, they provided misinformation to its drivers since day one. Misleading drivers about there being insured when driving to pick up passengers up and on there way to there destinations.
> 
> They have known if you are involved in a accident your insurance can cancil leaving you in possible lawsuit. I have seen no where has Uber paid for your damage and or injuries incurred in a accident on Uber's clock ? I have seen Uber wants you to report to your insurance company first. Can some one confirm this.
> 
> So any one gambling on not getting involved in a accident in there car while driving for Uber, has other issues now.
> If By this State rulling Uber Lyft and others must provide driver information to local insurance agencies.
> 
> Come July 1 they will loose thousands of drivers unless some thing is not done, and the only thing I can think of is they supply there own commercial insurance at affordable rates.


What is happening Florida on July 1 that affects Uber drivers? Is someone going to give current insurers a list of Uber drivers? Uber drivers in many states have personal policies with insurers that will immediately cancel policies of rideshare drivers. Fortunately for Flordia Uber drivers, there are companies that will happily cover them tomorrow knowing they do rideshare. Better yet, some will fill the coverage-gap in Phase-1.


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## Telsa34

Maven said:


> What is happening Florida on July 1 that affects Uber drivers? Is someone going to give current insurers a list of Uber drivers? Uber drivers in many states have personal policies with insurers that will immediately cancel policies of rideshare drivers. Fortunately for Flordia Uber drivers, there are companies that will happily cover them tomorrow knowing they do rideshare. Better yet, some will fill the coverage-gap in Phase-1.


We know Exactly what's going to happen on July 1st it says that in my post what you're stating is totally redundant X about 10, now what you stated is interesting.

Quote.

Fortunately for Flordia Uber drivers, there are companies that will happily cover them tomorrow knowing they do rideshare. Better yet, some will fill the coverage-gap in Phase-1.

This will go into effect July 1st supposedly and there's no companies out there that are advertising which it would seem to me they would be you can't just wait till July 1st. And a filling gap insurance policy is going to do you no good at all if your private insurance has cancelled because they found out that you're driving for Uber or Lyft again I appreciate the comment but it's redundant you shed no further light on the topic but that's what this forms for it would be nice to see something enlightening for a change. Instead of redundancy.


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## Maven

Obviously, you did not notice that I am in Connecticut. I freely admit that I know little or nothing about Florida issues or what may or may not be redundant. If you were serious about wanting "something enlightening for a change" then you would have answered my questions about July 1st instead of giving a sarcastic reply. Or if you do not want to explain then I suggest posting in a Florida forum, where people are my likely to understand your references.


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## Telsa34

Maven said:


> Obviously, you did not notice that I am in Connecticut. I freely admit that I know little or nothing about Florida issues or what may or may not be redundant. If you were serious about wanting "something enlightening for a change" then you would have answered my questions about July 1st instead of giving a sarcastic reply. Or if you do not want to explain then I suggest posting in a Florida forum, where people are my likely to understand your references.


It wasn't sarcastic so don't get your shirt tail all twisted up take a deep breath relax and have it rest of a good weekend. All I stated was what you had said has already been spoken countless times it wasn't meant to be sarcastic it just gets old see redundant post that's why I just simply hit ignore instead of trying to rub people the wrong way as you try to do with your comment as I stated it wasn't meant to be sarcastic that's your interpretation and that's a problem with written email it can be misconstrued very easily so again have a nice day. I never meant for it to rub you the wrong way. And it's posted in the Florida forum, as well. I'm sharing information is that not what this sites for.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Aneed Momoney said:


> Both these apps are on borrowed time. Smaller regional apps by people with common business sense, and some money to invest in a team of devs and a IT people will make a killing


Problem is uber and Lyft are operating at a mega loss,

There's several local cab companies that are running apps...

The interesting thing is the taxi apps are largely redumnat (intentional miss spelling) because it's insanely easy to operate a taxi wth no dispatch at all.

Dispatch is and has always been the minority of taxi business in Orlando.

Because it's not like there isn't 6 major theme parks and 4 water parks that lose at the scheduled time every night and there arnt hundreds of hotels.. yes I said hundreds.


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## UberMensch3000

I'd dare say that a HUGE part of the retention issue is the lack of understanding towards the position as independent contractor and all that it entails ( and the apparent lack of any REAL on-boarding in which to explain it in any detail ). Are there issues with the way Uber acts seemingly against this supposed "independence" ? Certainly. Could the rates be better ? Of course. Should there be a blatant solicitation for tips built into the app ? Why the Hell not ? They can ( and more than likely WILL ) still continue to decline to do so. But many if not most new drivers ( and maybe not-so-new ) have zero experience within the industry let alone as an independent. Ask any entrepreneur about the first year/s they were starting their business. What was the cash outlay ? How much debt did they have to take on to stay afloat ? How long did they beat the Hell out of themselves before it turned profitable ?? Because all that is exactly what we SHOULD be expecting in that shitty first year. Bear in mind that all or, at the very least most, of your expenses are tax deductibles. Sure, that first year's gonna suck. I HIGHLY reco the purchase of as old a hybrid vehicle as your state/area will allow as I cannot imagine how ANY drivers make ANY coin running 100% gas 100% of the time...And, if not already, getting down and dirty with as much of your own maintenance as possible... And if you file correctly ( quarterly ) and use the IRS mileage deductions ( .54/mile or $540/1000m ) rather than actually itemizing your expenses ( ex, I've racked up $3000+ in mileage deductions just in May ) you should see a net positive return on those expense "investments" when you file the following year. It also helps to stop thinking "hourly employee" and start thinking "salaried manager" or you're not going to last long morale-wise. Of course, it's much easier to just simply go full negative on any and all of the above and give up before you come anywhere near profitable. Just ask any failed entrepreneur. Anyhow; I realize these are just my own opinions/observations on the matter. I could be wrong.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

UberMensch3000 said:


> I'd dare say that a HUGE part of the retention issue is the lack of understanding towards the position as independent contractor and all that it entails ( and the apparent lack of any REAL on-boarding in which to explain it in any detail ). Are there issues with the way Uber acts seemingly against this supposed "independence" ? Certainly. Could the rates be better ? Of course. Should there be a blatant solicitation for tips built into the app ? Why the Hell not ? They can ( and more than likely WILL ) still continue to decline to do so. But many if not most new drivers ( and maybe not-so-new ) have zero experience within the industry let alone as an independent. Ask any entrepreneur about the first year/s they were starting their business. What was the cash outlay ? How much debt did they have to take on to stay afloat ? How long did they beat the Hell out of themselves before it turned profitable ?? Because all that is exactly what we SHOULD be expecting in that shitty first year. Bear in mind that all or, at the very least most, of your expenses are tax deductibles. Sure, that first year's gonna suck. I HIGHLY reco the purchase of as old a hybrid vehicle as your state/area will allow as I cannot imagine how ANY drivers make ANY coin running 100% gas 100% of the time...And, if not already, getting down and dirty with as much of your own maintenance as possible... And if you file correctly ( quarterly ) and use the IRS mileage deductions ( .54/mile or $540/1000m ) rather than actually itemizing your expenses ( ex, I've racked up $3000+ in mileage deductions just in May ) you should see a net positive return on those expense "investments" when you file the following year. It also helps to stop thinking "hourly employee" and start thinking "salaried manager" or you're not going to last long morale-wise. Of course, it's much easier to just simply go full negative on any and all of the above and give up before you come anywhere near profitable. Just ask any failed entrepreneur. Anyhow; I realize these are just my own opinions/observations on the matter. I could be wrong.


It took me one month to "break even" as an independent cab driver with zero experience in the industry, not counting purchasing the car. Meaning i had recouped the cost of the annual permits, the meter, the dinky roof sign, the "taxi" stickers, 1 month of commercial insurance. I was never behind in that venture ever again. I was hoping to hit this point in 3 months. I stuck with it until i blew out the engine on the minivan i bought for it.

Fast forward to when i switched to being an independent contractor taxi driver. Day #3 I turned my first profit $134, days 1 and 2 were training.

With Uber i turned my first "profit" on day one. _*But the rates where 253% higher than they are now... Yes over 2 1/2 times higher than they are now*_...

Now in Orlando I can't even make the math show any profit working X.


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## Abraxas79

UberMensch3000 said:


> I'd dare say that a HUGE part of the retention issue is the lack of understanding towards the position as independent contractor and all that it entails ( and the apparent lack of any REAL on-boarding in which to explain it in any detail ). Are there issues with the way Uber acts seemingly against this supposed "independence" ? Certainly. Could the rates be better ? Of course. Should there be a blatant solicitation for tips built into the app ? Why the Hell not ? They can ( and more than likely WILL ) still continue to decline to do so. But many if not most new drivers ( and maybe not-so-new ) have zero experience within the industry let alone as an independent. Ask any entrepreneur about the first year/s they were starting their business. What was the cash outlay ? How much debt did they have to take on to stay afloat ? How long did they beat the Hell out of themselves before it turned profitable ?? Because all that is exactly what we SHOULD be expecting in that shitty first year. Bear in mind that all or, at the very least most, of your expenses are tax deductibles. Sure, that first year's gonna suck. I HIGHLY reco the purchase of as old a hybrid vehicle as your state/area will allow as I cannot imagine how ANY drivers make ANY coin running 100% gas 100% of the time...And, if not already, getting down and dirty with as much of your own maintenance as possible... And if you file correctly ( quarterly ) and use the IRS mileage deductions ( .54/mile or $540/1000m ) rather than actually itemizing your expenses ( ex, I've racked up $3000+ in mileage deductions just in May ) you should see a net positive return on those expense "investments" when you file the following year. It also helps to stop thinking "hourly employee" and start thinking "salaried manager" or you're not going to last long morale-wise. Of course, it's much easier to just simply go full negative on any and all of the above and give up before you come anywhere near profitable. Just ask any failed entrepreneur. Anyhow; I realize these are just my own opinions/observations on the matter. I could be wrong.


All of these are valid points that you make and every driver that drives for UBER should take note of them. However, the whole problem with UBER is the nature of the contract is entirely one sided. I am sure many of us have worked as independent contractors or hired one and are familiar with the nature of the contractual relationship. In these relationships, each party has rights and responsibilities. ie; Hire a contractor, you can usually terminate them but you generally have to give notice and their is often a penalty. In the UBER/Driver relationship, the Driver has nothing. He cannot set his rates, can be deactivated at any moment with no cause or reason given. The contract can be changed by UBER at anytime and in anyway and the driver is forced to accept the new terms to drive for UBER. In the UBER/Driver relationship, the driver has the worst of both worlds. He is not an employee, thus gets no benefits or protections as such, but isn't really an independent contractor either given how UBER controls almost every aspect of his or her job. The only real "Independence" the driver has is deciding when and for how long they choose to work. A more apt description of the relationship between UBER and the Driver is that of Feudal Lord and Serf.

If you accepted a job or a were successful on a tender and were presented the terms similar to the UBER/DRIVER agreement in any other line of work, there is no way in the world you would accept it.


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## BaitNSwitch

Kodyhead said:


> The bigger issue is also if they add tbe tipping feature it will probably flood the market with returning drivers. The majority will still not tip maybe some will change but i believe if you are not getting tips now, you will not be getting tbat much more in tips when they add it. At least not a *career changing* difference


Did you...did you just call Uber a career?


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## Gooberlifturwallet

Trump Economics said:


> It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
> *George Orwell, 1984*


Spot on. I am currently being "thoroughly investigated" by uber's hatchetmen after being setup for having an opinion on my time, my youtube channel and daring to speak about the tsunami of crap flowing from uber. They think I've harmed their "brand". Hilarious.


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## UberMensch3000

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> It took me one month to "break even" as an independent cab driver with zero experience in the industry, not counting purchasing the car. Meaning i had recouped the cost of the annual permits, the meter, the dinky roof sign, the "taxi" stickers, 1 month of commercial insurance. I was never behind in that venture ever again. I was hoping to hit this point in 3 months. I stuck with it until i blew out the engine on the minivan i bought for it.
> 
> Fast forward to when i switched to being an independent contractor taxi driver. Day #3 I turned my first profit $134, days 1 and 2 were training.
> 
> With Uber i turned my first "profit" on day one. _*But the rates where 253% higher than they are now... Yes over 2 1/2 times higher than they are now*_...
> 
> Now in Orlando I can't even make the math show any profit working X.


========================================================================================================

Ok. So... Not sure if you were purposefully being misleading or if you merely do not recognize the glaring flaw in your statements above. But allow me to point it out just in case... Here's a hint; It starts at " not counting purchasing the car ". Your claiming to have "broken even" in a month while both excluding and ignoring the single largest source of cash outlay/fund drain is laughable considering that there are even more figures involved than just the actual cost of the vehicle itself. Using this logic ( or complete lack there-of ), I can claim I "broke even" on my mortgage with my down payment ( see? I can do it too ). Here's a little something to help you figure out when, or should I say IF, you'll "break even"...: http://artofbeingcheap.com/calculator/


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## Trump Economics

Gooberlifturwallet said:


> Spot on. I am currently being "thoroughly investigated" by uber's hatchetmen after being setup for having an opinion on my time, my youtube channel and daring to speak about the tsunami of crap flowing from uber. They think I've harmed their "brand". Hilarious.


Better start emailing every reporter you can find with your story. More than ever, they're listening.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

UberMensch3000 said:


> ========================================================================================================
> 
> Ok. So... Not sure if you were purposefully being misleading or if you merely do not recognize the glaring flaw in your statements above. But allow me to point it out just in case... Here's a hint; It starts at " not counting purchasing the car ". Your claiming to have "broken even" in a month while both excluding and ignoring the single largest source of cash outlay/fund drain is laughable considering that there are even more figures involved than just the actual cost of the vehicle itself. Using this logic ( or complete lack there-of ), I can claim I "broke even" on my mortgage with my down payment ( see? I can do it too ). Here's a little something to help you figure out when, or should I say IF, you'll "break even"...: http://artofbeingcheap.com/calculator/


Ok then... I had recouped the cost of the car plus made about $10,000 in a year one and made over $40,000 in profit year two, then my warranty expired when i rolled over 100,000 miles and I only made another $75,000 in profit over the next two years before the car wasn't worth fixing and I gave up on being an indy operator.

But if i had quit in year one i could have pulled the meter out of the car, stripped off the "taxi" signs and the numbering and still had a working car.


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## Gooberlifturwallet

BaitNSwitch said:


> Did you...did you just call Uber a career?


It's not just a career... It's an adventure!


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